# Ttystikk's vertical goodness



## tystikk (Jan 26, 2014)

Greetings, I'm here because I was invited to join here by Logic- at The Head Case farm.

Apparently he and his sycophants convinced themselves I didn't have anything valuable to contribute.

I'm here in the vertical section to share my ideas and get some tips.

First, a quick description of what I'm doing; vertical grow around a single bare thouie hung vertically, using field fencing as trellis. I run two sections of fencing, each 4' x 6'3" long and use them to create a tube 4' tall x 4' in diameter. I only run one plant per trellis, and here's where it gets a lil interesting; I put the plant against the OUTSIDE of the trellis, and only let the growing tips through. Each panel for a plant is 25 ft², and so each tube has 50 ft².

Roots are in RDWC, 27 gallon tuffboxes, airless aeration, environmental control is by water chiller. Not just the tubs, either; everything is water cooled, including dehuey and temperature management.

I've already got one run under my belt; Dairy Queen did reasonably well for being topped and trained for a horizontal canopy grow before they got put into vert! They never got terribly big, and they definitely overcrowded themselves, both easy fixes.

Now, I'm running three vertical tubes in the room and the girls are much bigger. So far, so good...


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## BarnBuster (Jan 26, 2014)

Welcome to RIU, Ty. I don't know anything about vertical, but there are some true experts here. Enjoy your stay!


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## tystikk (Jan 26, 2014)

The rest of the setup may deserve mention, as well; I cool a 16kW op with only four Tons of water chilling- and most of the time I only need half that much! Those who are trying to cool their op more efficiently or effectively, drop me a line, I have hundreds of tips to help.

I run a perpetual op, several stages from clones to chop. This means I build spaces customized around the needs of specific segments of the plant's life cycle, and you can guess the results.

RDWC of my own design and construction, with features unavailable in the commercial marketplace AT ANY PRICE, including built-in turbulence, airless aeration and more.

A comprehensive reduce/reuse/recycling program that has seen me reusing my chowmix for years, and throwing away very little besides thick stalks and root bundles.

Even the waste heat the chiller removes from my grow op is recycled; the chiller sits in my office ask winter and warms my whole house. In Colorado. All winter. I last ran my furnace almost three years ago...

And yes, there's lots more where this came from!


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## tystikk (Jan 27, 2014)

Hmmm. No one wants to know anything about water chilling, or growing three times as much product in a given space, yet still using less than half the power?


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## BarnBuster (Jan 27, 2014)

depending when you start a thread, it may become buried so deep, no one sees it. you might want to hang in some of these and let the folks get to know you.

https://www.rollitup.org/vertical-growing/721569-whodat-sticky-trap.html

https://www.rollitup.org/vertical-growing/485864-club-vert-600-a.html

https://www.rollitup.org/vertical-growing/753402-docs-laboratory.html


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## RedCarpetMatches (Jan 27, 2014)

Welcome ty! Can't wait to see some pics. I like the point of keeping most of plant outside of trellis.


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## tystikk (Jan 27, 2014)

Here's an interesting pic or two, hope it gives y'all some idea...



Great. Gotta love the upside down pic.


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## green.green (Jan 27, 2014)

Are you using you reservoirs as heat sinks? One main res with chiller cycled through RDWC res' using wort chiller type design. What am I missing? Also - I like the vertical trellis idea especially if you can keep the plant count down but unless you are actually pulling 3x product with 1/2 Kw then its still just theoretical. It does seem like a good strategy for growing a 10-14 week sativa indoors though.


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## tystikk (Jan 28, 2014)

RedCarpetMatches said:


> Welcome ty! Can't wait to see some pics. I like the point of keeping most of plant outside of trellis.


Okay, cool- glad folks are curious! To address your observation, I did this in order to place the plant where it made the most sense to me. First, if the stalk and branches are on the outside, I can more easily manipulate and clip them to the trellis. Second, I stuff the growing tips through the trellis, which effectively locates them at the exact optimum distance from the bulb- and of course they get unobstructed access to the light, as well.

I've competed one run and I've got two more going, each with lessons learned from the last crops, good and bad. So far, I've discovered that I must guard against seeing the plant choke itself by letting it get too dense and tight- and thus larfy.


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## tystikk (Jan 28, 2014)

green.green said:


> Are you using you reservoirs as heat sinks? One main res with chiller cycled through RDWC res' using wort chiller type design. What am I missing? Also - I like the vertical trellis idea especially if you can keep the plant count down but unless you are actually pulling 3x product with 1/2 Kw then its still just theoretical. It does seem like a good strategy for growing a 10-14 week sativa indoors though.


My RDWC doesn't have a separate reservoir; each tub is 27 gallons, BIG, to accommodate the plant's every need. Linking six together, using a spacer to lift the netpot up to allow for 17 gallons of water in each tub, allows for six plants per run and 100 gallons of nutrient. That kind of size creates its own inertia, for water temps, for EC, for pH, keeping things stable and easy to maintain with less attention. As I mentioned, I don't currently use an airpump or airstones- instead, I utilize the water from the recirculation pump to create a waterfall in each tub. To maintain temperature control in the tubs, I use a copper coil in my tailbucket through which runs water from the separate chiller circuit. In winter, this can mean warming up the water from a nutrient changeout, since it leaves the tap at 49F or even lower!

The theory is sound; vertical really does triple your trellis space from horizontal, and the way I'm approaching it, I'm currently using only a quarter of the usual wattage for a trellis this size. Thus far, the application is a learning process, but progress is clear; if I'm doing my job, the trellis is covered. There is no reason why the vertical trellis can't yield every bit as much per square foot as horizontal can, it's just a matter of teasing out its quirks and making the most of it. In other words, practice makes perfect, right?


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## KingCloner (Jan 28, 2014)

I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
According to tty it takes 20 weeks to grow a plant to finish using this method.
With a yield of less than a 1/2 pound finished (per plant) this is a huge waste of resource with little gain.
I can grow 4 times the pot in the same space at an 1/8 of the power consumption.
Where is the benefit here? Taste? Buzz? Sure ain't profit!


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## tystikk (Jan 28, 2014)

KingCloner said:


> I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
> According to tty it takes 20 weeks to grow a plant to finish using this method.
> With a yield of less than a 1/2 pound finished (per plant) this is a huge waste of resource with little gain.
> I can grow 4 times the pot in the same space at an 1/8 of the power consumption.
> Where is the benefit here? Taste? Buzz? Sure ain't profit!


My first crack at this, with lots of warts, was as you say- yet, it pointed the way forward. The current batch is much more representative of the approach and they're living up to its potential a lot better.

I'm not sure how you're doing your math for power consumption, time, or yield. Since they're numbers with no explanation, it sounds to me like you're not real clear on my process but you're happy to make snap judgements.

If time is of the essence, this isn't your op. I'm not building it for that customer, however.

A dispensary or warehouse certainly has the resources to run a stable operation with multiple stages; indeed, it's how things are done already. This kind of batch process is necessary, desirable and efficient. It is only news to a basement grower.

While there are several veg stages, all of them put together add up to less than one bloom room in terms of power consumption- and the potential return per square foot is far greater than harvesting on any flat surface, be it a ScrOG under lights or on the floor.

If you have specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them. I won't respond to anything else.

I'm sorry you choose your very first post to be this negative.


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## MedScientist (Jan 28, 2014)

WooHoo! I LOVE the Idea! I have often thought of doing the Bulb/Screen thing on a Single Plant to spread out the Canopy in Equidistant spacing. 

Oh My! I bet properly Mainlined Plant would work Great? Good Luck!

Peace


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## KingCloner (Jan 28, 2014)

tystikk said:


> A dispensary or warehouse certainly has the resources to run a stable operation with multiple stages; indeed, it's how things are done already. This kind of batch process is necessary, desirable and efficient. It is only news to a basement grower
> 
> I'm sorry you choose your very first post to be this negative.


Basement grower huh! Where you growing ty? Looks like a basement to me (see the pix he posted)!
I can see why you keep getting kicked off other forums. Misinformation, acting like a wounded bird when someone throws constructive criticism your way, talking smack about others talking smack. How many usernames do you have on this forum ty (the main reason you keep getting kicked off other forums)?
Put some grow knowledge and some real math on those warts little buddy. Businesses that do not operate efficiently do not stay in business long. No warehouses or dispensaries (or even anyone in their right mind) would throw their time or money away on this impractical of a system.
2nd post not too positive either. Just can't stand someone claiming to know what they are doing posting nonsense to people who don't know any better.
Don't say I didn't warn you!


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## tystikk (Jan 28, 2014)

MedScientist said:


> WooHoo! I LOVE the Idea! I have often thought of doing the Bulb/Screen thing on a Single Plant to spread out the Canopy in Equidistant spacing.
> 
> Oh My! I bet properly Mainlined Plant would work Great? Good Luck!
> 
> Peace


Hey there! I'm stoked about it, too!

I'm having better luck not topping the plants at all thus far.

I've got one run done and another in process, still learning... but it's fun!


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## tystikk (Jan 28, 2014)

I believe I've been remiss in that I haven't posted any pics or discussed any details.

Tubs;


Setup;


Cooling;


So, what people did not understand at the other site was that I'm not in this for seeds or glory, I'm here to find a better, cheaper way to grow it indoors and keep the quality.

Yes, I have a diverse stable of strains, to better test the equipment with. They've all been gifted, often closely held clones, I haven't popped a seed in this millennium.

Often, I test things to their limits, even beyond. This isn't 'failure', it's 'experience!' 

The fact is that like learning any new technology, there is a learning curve. Currently, I'm on it, and I'm seeing extremely promising early results. I have a ways to go to see the potential of the system realized, but rest assured I'll get there!


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## whodatnation (Jan 28, 2014)

Hey tys, looks awesome 

Iv been doing this inward facing canopy thing for about a year now, each grow has had its adjustments! Been growing in soil, but next round (in 4 weeks) will be in a UC/RDWC system similar to yours, but with 4-plants per light. 

Thanks for sharing, looking forward to the progression!


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## tystikk (Jan 28, 2014)

whodatnation said:


> Hey tys, looks awesome
> 
> Iv been doing this inward facing canopy thing for about a year now, each grow has had its adjustments! Been growing in soil, but next round (in 4 weeks) will be in a UC/RDWC system similar to yours, but with 4-plants per light.
> 
> Thanks for sharing, looking forward to the progression!


Hey, great to meet you! Can I ask about how you trellis your girls? Do you pin them to the inside of the canopy, or? What's the diameter of your trellis, and what ways are your bulb(s)? I'll go peep your thread, but if I recall it is long!

I can get some more detailed pics and discussion up, I think things are really progressing well at the moment.

This is of course not the only design I have planned, just the opening gambit to give me experience. Boy, do I have some doozies lined up...


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## whodatnation (Jan 28, 2014)

This screen is almost 3ft in diameter. As you can see I let the plants grow through it from the outside, I used some small wire I bent into hooks to hold heavier inward leaning branches. 

A pic is worth a thousand words though! This system uses a light mover with the vertical 600w bare bulb. 







This is from the previous but very similar setup. Had one big plant at the bottom in the center with four plants around the perimeter.






View from the outside, early into flowering.


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## tystikk (Jan 29, 2014)

whodatnation said:


> This screen is almost 3ft in diameter. As you can see I let the plants grow through it from the outside, I used some small wire I bent into hooks to hold heavier inward leaning branches.
> 
> A pic is worth a thousand words though! This system uses a light mover with the vertical 600w bare bulb.
> 
> ...


WOW, impressive! Can I see how you make your lights move? Love the big colas inside the trellis, too!

If you had it to do over again, do you think you'd stick with the mover or try two or more bulbs instead?


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## tystikk (Jan 29, 2014)

So my most recent issue is that RH is climbing, in spite of the best efforts of the Iceboxes. This indicates the girls are growing rapidly and transpiring a great deal as a sign of their healthy metabolism.

It appears that while my two little 8" Iceboxes are able to deal with temperature issues well enough, they're just too small to deal with all the extra humidity created by such big plants growing right around powerful lights.

I will have to make some calls, and see what I can come up with. Meanwhile, I need to vent my 'sealed' growroom for an hour or two every day.


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## MedScientist (Jan 29, 2014)

Keep in mind, that you could Defoliate the Plants to lower Transpiration/Humidity, increase AirFlow and it will also bring More light to the Budz!

Peace


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## tystikk (Jan 30, 2014)

MedScientist said:


> Keep in mind, that you could Defoliate the Plants to lower Transpiration/Humidity, increase AirFlow and it will also bring More light to the Budz!
> 
> Peace


Way too much plant mass for this to be a viable option. I do defoliate the big fan leaves after the ladies have been flowering for 3 weeks or so, helps them get light to the buds and stack.

This situation is caused by a lot of happy plants in a relatively small room, and just needs an equipment upgrade.


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## whodatnation (Jan 30, 2014)

Thats what I was gonna say, simply need a dehumidifier or two for the room.

edit: forgot your ?s.

Well I'll def choose a mover over another light for sure. If Im gonna run another light anyways well by golly its gonna be on a mover!  
If I didnt care about efficiency then it would be a different story.

This is a look at the light rail and how I have it setup.







Simple, one light goes up while the other goes down.


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## whodatnation (Jan 30, 2014)

I'll also add that those are two flowering cabs on alternating cycles. One, that gives me 24hrs of plant gazing opportunity, and two, I only need to cool one light at a time.


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## SFguy (Jan 30, 2014)

really great use of space... how much you avg per light in this setup? i have a couple light movers and add a light kits i like the way you rigged it up to move the bulbs vert


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## tystikk (Jan 30, 2014)

whodatnation said:


> I'll also add that those are two flowering cabs on alternating cycles. One, that gives me 24hrs of plant gazing opportunity, and two, I only need to cool one light at a time.


Very nice setup, although it's hard to tell scale even with the five gallon buckets in there.

Yours is the second vertical light mover I've seen that was originally a Light Rail. I thought about that approach, but I want a different pattern of light timing, so I'll use a wheel and pulleys.

I love the enclosed cabinets on a flip, that's cool! In every sense, lol


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## tystikk (Feb 6, 2014)

I liked this pic;

But mom! There really ARE monsters in the basement!


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## whodatnation (Feb 6, 2014)

tystikk said:


> I liked this pic;
> 
> But mom! There really ARE monsters in the basement!
> 
> ...



Yup thats looking right!


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## whodatnation (Feb 6, 2014)

SFguy said:


> really great use of space... how much you avg per light in this setup? i have a couple light movers and add a light kits i like the way you rigged it up to move the bulbs vert


Iv been growing some lower yielding genetics so theres excuse #1! lol, but to answer your question Im getting 10-14oz a 600w. So in soil, genetics, and vert experience are limiting factors in my yields. As I get more of these vert grows under my belt Im sure I'll get better at it, but Im not about to grow lower quality flowers just to get a higher yield.



tystikk said:


> Very nice setup, although it's hard to tell scale even with the five gallon buckets in there.
> 
> Yours is the second vertical light mover I've seen that was originally a Light Rail. I thought about that approach, but I want a different pattern of light timing, so I'll use a wheel and pulleys.
> 
> I love the enclosed cabinets on a flip, that's cool! In every sense, lol



Sounds good cant what to see what you come up with 

The cabs aren't actually on a flip but that would be cool. I use this day/night timer from petsmart that switches them over seamlessly just like a flipflop would, just still using 2 ballasts.


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## ilyaas123 (Feb 6, 2014)

That is an amazing plant so lets hope you get a good harvest


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## tystikk (Feb 6, 2014)

A flip schedule without the flip box. I do exactly the same thing.


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## tystikk (Feb 6, 2014)

ilyaas123 said:


> That is an amazing plant so lets hope you get a good harvest


Me too. That would be a lot of larf...


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## sdf (Feb 6, 2014)

KingCloner said:


> I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
> According to tty it takes 20 weeks to grow a plant to finish using this method.
> With a yield of less than a 1/2 pound finished (per plant) this is a huge waste of resource with little gain.
> I can grow 4 times the pot in the same space at an 1/8 of the power consumption.
> Where is the benefit here? Taste? Buzz? Sure ain't profit!


dude, your first post AAAAAAAAAnd your a dick. welcome to riu asshole

Anywho to answer some questions, if you dont want the longer veg time then you add plants (preferably clones from the same mom so they all grow similarly) And actually vertical growing is way more efficient than horizontal, even compared to a monster scrog. Don't believe me? oh well, no skin off my nutz


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## sdf (Feb 6, 2014)

TTY I love this, Imma be watching out for this. I want to do this but with a few plants instead of one for the shortened veg time


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## whodatnation (Feb 6, 2014)

tystikk said:


> A flip schedule without the flip box. I do exactly the same thing.



Yup  only need to cool one light at a time (or half of any given setup, in my case= 1 light) AND you get 24hr plant gazing time! I really like being able to spend time with flowering ladies more than just 12 hrs a day 



edit: just realized I've mentioned this twice here,,, cant remember where I post!


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## whodatnation (Feb 6, 2014)

sdf said:


> dude, your first post AAAAAAAAAnd your a dick. welcome to riu asshole
> 
> Anywho to answer some questions, if you dont want the longer veg time then you add plants (preferably clones from the same mom so they all grow similarly) And actually vertical growing is way more efficient than horizontal, even compared to a monster scrog. Don't believe me? oh well, no skin off my nutz



Obviously just someone from another site here to troll on him. Really, went through the trouble to make an account just to troll and he gave this thread a 1 star rating lol,,, I went ahead and gave it 5 to even things out.
Some people just cant stand to se others do their thing.


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## sdf (Feb 6, 2014)

i know haha, if haters are following you around the web you must be doing something right 
I shall rate this a 5* too


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## tystikk (Feb 6, 2014)

Sdf, whodatnation, I appreciate the kind words. I'm used to going my own way, and drawing criticism from those for whom nonconformism is automatically considered a threat- or at least a target for derision. 

Actually getting chased out of a forum for the heinous crime of minding my own business is a new experience, but it won't stop me. It hasn't hindered my network, cost me friends, hurt my work or even damaged my reputation- if anything, I'm now more recognized than before. Whatever they were trying to do TO me, I'd say they failed. I think they saw me as a threat and got rid of me. After all, I don't even buy seeds!

There is much more to come. If they thought for a minute they were going to see the last of me, they're in for some surprises, lol...


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## tystikk (Feb 6, 2014)

sdf said:


> TTY I love this, Imma be watching out for this. I want to do this but with a few plants instead of one for the shortened veg time


Thanks for stopping in, and absolutely! This general approach leads to all sorts of specific applications, and you can certainly shave weeks off your veg if you're looking to use more plants- but frankly, not as many as you might think. It takes me 8 weeks of veg altogether, and they would only take seven weeks to be ready if you ran four- that's a more or less close guess.

This is for the size trellis I'm running, to reiterate; four foot tall field fencing, cut into sections 6.25' long. Two if these are bent into a full circle, the length makes it four feet in diameter. Currently, I raise just one plant per trellis, but one could easily place two or even three.

I find that the plants want to grow up, fast. This is the secret to my veg, simply letting them grow naturally and even competing with one another a bit so they continue to shoot up like sunflowers. Once they go into the trellis, they get pinned in place and then any part of the plant that runs off the top or sides of the trellis, I'd top it. Because the trellis is half again wider than it is tall, it ends up being a pain to fill in with just two plants, so I believe four would be a better solution for this shape. I have bigger fish to fry, so I'll be continuing on with my one plant per trellis plan for now.


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## tystikk (Feb 6, 2014)

sdf said:


> i know haha, if haters are following you around the web you must be doing something right
> I shall rate this a 5* too


I know, right? It's a sure sign you've gained a certain amount of notoriety!


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## tystikk (Feb 6, 2014)

whodatnation said:


> Yup  only need to cool one light at a time (or half of any given setup, in my case= 1 light) AND you get 24hr plant gazing time! I really like being able to spend time with flowering ladies more than just 12 hrs a day
> 
> edit: just realized I've mentioned this twice here,,, cant remember where I post!


You had me laughing out loud, because I'm gonna confess, I space out and do this same thing all the Damn time! Oh well, at least I'm consistent, lol!

So I do the same thing, stagger my bloom rooms on a defacto flip schedule. This never overloads my breaker box, and not only am I able to spread out my cooling, but because I run water chilling, the same chiller cools everything- and only has to keep up with half the op at any given time. I just saved myself half off both purchasing cooling capacity and operating costs by never needing to cool more than half my op!

Here's where it bit me in the ass during our current cold snap, so it's good for a laugh; I just took my last horizontal trellis room down to turn it into a vertical room. This process takes a few days, all in the meantime, I have no room running overnight. In February. In Colorado. Today's high temperature was 3. With a number like that, quibbling about plus or minus seems pointless... 

I'm running my chiller in my office, which is also the air intake for the house and the op. The chiller runs and warms up the incoming air, which then travels through the house and the op and keeps everything comfortably warm. Unless of course, there is no room to keep cool, in which case the chiller just sits there. Chilling. And so does the rest of the house. And my 'nads! 

So the workaround is every few hours overnight I go and reduce the temperature setting by a degree or two, and then it spends the next hour pulling that heat into the house. It turns out that each full RDWC is basically a thermal reservoir, loaded with up to 100 gallons of solution. That takes some effort to heat or cool, and thus acts well as a buffer for when I need a little extra heat upstairs overnight.

In other words, I'm using my op as a source of recycled home heating, complete with a built in thermal storage system. That's about a trip, isn't it? This heat- or lack of it- is plenty useful in building up enough excess capacity that my chiller can effectively operate beyond its full capacity for at least part of the next day. So I'm heating my house and at the same time putting 'coolth' in the bank -my RDWC systems and the cooling system reservoir- for use in boosting efficiency tomorrow.

This is no idle pot head theoretical exercise with no real world gain either; because I'm managing- arbitraging, even- my temperatures like this, I save the cost of using natural gas to run a furnace to heat my home. That's money in my pocket, just for using water to cool my op!


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## MedScientist (Feb 7, 2014)

Thats AWESOME!

During the Cold Winter months I exhaust my 2K HPS carbon scrubbed sytem into the basement, then run it out the window in the warmer months to pull cooler air in.

This helps to keep the LED area up to Proper Temps for Quick growth. Its ALWAYS Good to Save $$$!

Peace


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## tystikk (Feb 7, 2014)

MedScientist said:


> Thats AWESOME!
> 
> During the Cold Winter months I exhaust my 2K HPS carbon scrubbed sytem into the basement, then run it out the window in the warmer months to pull cooler air in.
> 
> ...


Hey, glad you liked that- the simple truth is that once you have a system for actually moving heat around your home as opposed to merely dumping it, a whole world of energy use reduction strategies become possible.

An outdoor circuit running RV Antifreeze (50/50 water and propylene glycol, non-toxic) could do things like service a 'compressorless chiller', basically a big air handler that sits outside and sheds heat when the temperature drops. I'd be interested, except I got better things to do with MY heat right now, lol! Other places to send 'waste heat' include a greenhouse in winter, fish ponds for aquaponics, geothermal lines in your driveway that keep it ice free all winter, etc, etc. With actual hot water from a water cooled process chiller, you can heat your house (cold water circuit at 60f isn't the ideal choice for this), hot water, your hot tub, and other applications where 110-120f water might be useful(!)... PLUS all the above.

After all, it's your heat; you've already paid to generate this heat AND paid again to move it out of your growroom, you might as well put it someplace useful!


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## tystikk (Feb 10, 2014)

So the final results of my very first ever vertical run were all in all very encouraging- the things that limited my yield were all pretty self evident; improper initial pruning, small initial size, excess density resulting in overcrowding.

I've made corrections and the results are, well, encouraging. One particularly successful plant may yield what the entire first run did in toto... and then there's the rest of the room.


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## Bubba Nub (Feb 10, 2014)

your grow looks really good. It took me two years of experimenting and the another year of tweeking to dial my vert system in. It's a pain staking process, but it pays off in the end. My last run hit 2.1lb per 1k watts, I'm shooting for 2.4 this run. It's painful how much you have to chop away to keep the canopy from getting out of control. Some days it just breaks my heart...


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## tystikk (Feb 11, 2014)

Bubba Nub said:


> your grow looks really good. It took me two years of experimenting and the another year of tweeking to dial my vert system in. It's a pain staking process, but it pays off in the end. My last run hit 2.1lb per 1k watts, I'm shooting for 2.4 this run. It's painful how much you have to chop away to keep the canopy from getting out of control. Some days it just breaks my heart...


I would be very interested to see more of your process.

I'm not doing a lot of chopping and thinning when I run my vertical system- in fact, reduced trimming and training is one of the reasons I like it! I let my veg girls grow straight up like they were outdoors, I even crowd them slightly to keep them going UP and not get too bushy early on.

Once they hit the silo, I vine clip them into place with plenty of room between lateral branches, again with very little training or green material removal. 

Three weeks later, I remove large fan leaves to allow the buds to get maximum light and nutrients.

From at least one of my silos, I'm expecting 2+ grams/watt from my 1kW bulb. I'm expecting them all to be close. This is my second vertical run, so there is much dialing yet to do.


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## Bubba Nub (Feb 11, 2014)

You can kinda see what I've got cookin on my link. Started posting mid grow, so there is a lacking of early on pics. A little over 2 weeks into flower and it's an 8'x28' wall of tops.


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## tystikk (Feb 11, 2014)

Bubba Nub said:


> You can kinda see what I've got cookin on my link. Started posting mid grow, so there is a lacking of early on pics. A little over 2 weeks into flower and it's an 8'x28' wall of tops.


I did peep your thread, and I subscribed to it. I'm excited to see how it works! I really want to see your moving light tree, too.


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## tystikk (Feb 11, 2014)

I use hydroponic methods, because they are much less effort than dealing with bags of dirt. Move a bag of dirt, or a waterpump? I'll move the pump every time!

I use dry nutrient salts, such as Jacks Professional Hydroponic mix and calcium nitrate. These give consistent results and are extremely affordable compared to hydro store water based nutes.

I grow trees, because few bigger plants take less effort than more smaller ones on a per yield basis. There's that whole legal thing right now, too, which this approach helps in the peace of mind dept.

I do not top. I don't do much pruning; only if a branch simply refuses to go on the trellis, or if it's growing off the edge/top of it.

I defoliate once, about 3 weeks into bloom.

I do nutrient water changeouts upon initial entry into bloom, at three, five and seven weeks, for flush.

I use automation; timers, pumps, sensors and environmental controllers. Those who don't limit only themselves.

Control is nothing without monitoring, charting and effective feedback. To this end, I'm buying a Growtronix system to control my entire op from a webcam at the front door to humidor control. This system comes complete with monitoring and graphing software to help the gardener gain full control of their environment.

I use these tools not because I am lazy, but because I want to extend how much product one manhour can be responsible for creating as far as possible. Doing this improves efficiency and reduces cost.

Folks will note that these are two of my foundational values when it comes to indoor cultivation of anything and they always have been. Just because we currently can afford to be wasteful as Fuck ALL due to the artificially high price of our wares, does not mean that A. It makes any moral, ethical or business sense to do so, B. That it confers any competitive advantage, or C. That doing things more efficiently will in any way hinder competitiveness. Indeed, I'm betting my career on the fact that prices will come down, and the wasteful will either reform or go bankrupt.

I have a lot of tips, tricks, techniques, strategies and equipment options for those who are serious about reducing their hours worked per pound produced. That's why I'm a consultant, lol


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## tystikk (Feb 14, 2014)

Ho hum, just another morning in Paradise... Colorado.

Every lady in the place is fairly bursting out of her netpot with life and vigor, the first day after a res change is always fun!

Since this happens so regularly, I'm wondering how one calculates the freshness of their nutrient solution. What does the process of nutrient depletion look like chemically, and how can I calculate when my setup needs it, based on size of plants, volume of reservoir, type of system, etc. There has to be something out there.

I basically guessed at the nutrient volume I'd need for my trees; I wanted to grow a plant that yields up to four #, so my thinking was that a 27 gallon tub should be able to support that.

I've read (somewhere online, I do not remember where now) in the past about how once the grower has added double the volume of the original nutrient solution back in fresh water top ups, the solution should be considered depleted and replaced. Is that reasonable? How about for our particular crops and conditions? Since I recycle my distilled water from dehuey in the sealed room (in my case, Iceboxes), how do I know when this or any similar threshold has happened?

I know some just replace their res weekly and call it done. With dry salts, it would not cost me much extra to follow suit, will I get anything for the effort? 

CAN ANY OF THIS BE QUANTIFIED, SO I CAN BUILD AND PLAN INTELLIGENTLY INSTEAD OF BY GUESSWORK?


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## zamzia (Feb 21, 2014)

Looking good fella.


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## tystikk (Feb 23, 2014)

Plants are frosting up. I'm having real trouble keeping humidity down, both a good sign of hard working plants- and a bad one, limiting further gains and risking rot.


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## tystikk (Feb 24, 2014)

Bad news! My biggest plant got elephant's foot and wilted! She smells plenty good, we'll see how she turns out after drying. At least it will make awesome hash!


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## tystikk (Feb 26, 2014)

So, update time. Yeah, I'm soooo bummed the Magic Merlin crashed and burned, but it's going to make for some happy hash makers! Meanwhile, the rest of the room looks great- all five are ripening and thickening, some are looking more like monster chunks against an open mesh, others more like a lumpy, curving green flying carpet o' buds, lol- yeah, that would be the Blue Dream!

So while the Magic Merlin was in trouble, she threw stress nanners- and they seeded. So, the room could be seed weed, which would piss me off, indeed! Oh well, move forward. The ultimate cause of this was poor design of the RDWC hoses in this room. Since this was my first multi group tubsite setup, I thought I could get away with one hose back to the control bucket from each pair of tubs. This turned out badly, so the rule is always two or more, to thwart clogs.

In this case, the clog backed up the water in the tub, it overfilled and drowned the stem, causing the stem to rot. It wasn't bad luck, and tracing all the way back to root causes teaches lessons that lead to continual improvement.

On to happier subjects! With some help and more wrestling, I completed my first four trellis Super Silo; this one stands six feet above the tubsites, about five feet in diameter, has four tubsites and presents 100 ft² to two thouies, one hung from the ceiling and the other standing on a tripod in the middle. So, this one is two feet taller and one foot wider than the two plant, 50 ft² silo. In other words, double the interior growing space, complete with double the watts to light it- but not double the footprint. INTERESTING! 

I bought a big fan to blow upwards through the center, to bring cool air from floor level and blow it upwards to both move heat from the bulbs out of the canopy, and provide a breeze on the plants. If this isn't sufficient, I'll add an 8" duct inlet collar on a 90 degree angle- and SUCK the heat from directly above the bulbs and stuff it right through the Icebox exchanger! This would be in addition to the first fan blowing from beneath.

I'm skipping the light mover for the moment because I want the thing up and running. If I can retrofit during the run I will- or just wait. With two bulbs, the light distribution pattern is going to be much better than with just one in any case. I'm lining the ceiling with Mylar, and beneath, covering the area around the sides of the fan and tripod beneath, I'm using more rigid reflective insulation board.

So, top and bottom will be covered in reflective materials and of course all the walls are directly in range, and 30" from a bare bulb. I'm thinkin' it's gotta be a nice place for some girls to hang out and do some personal growth... Might be nice for plants, too. LOL

I have a trophy crew in the veg tent bursting out of every seam- and growing directly into the MH thouie in the adjust-a-wing! High time to get them into their places! Tomorrow, the leak test will be finished- already went around it twice tonight, sometimes a drip is just slooow, lol


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## tystikk (Feb 28, 2014)

Hello, shout out to my new homies! Nice to meet you guys tonight!


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## Bubba Nub (Feb 28, 2014)

How's that fan workin out for ya?


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## bshdctr (Feb 28, 2014)

Whats up Tystikk!
Great meeting you as well and I look forward to seeing how this vertical grow turns out


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## tystikk (Feb 28, 2014)

bshdctr said:


> Whats up Tystikk!
> Great meeting you as well and I look forward to seeing how this vertical grow turns out


Hey buddy! Great to see ya!


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## tystikk (Feb 28, 2014)

Bubba Nub said:


> How's that fan workin out for ya?


Too early to tell yet, so far so good.


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## stonedest (Feb 28, 2014)

Hey tystikk, nice talking with you last night, you sure got some crazy shit going on here!


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## tystikk (Mar 1, 2014)

stonedest said:


> Hey tystikk, nice talking with you last night, you sure got some crazy shit going on here!


Why, thank you! I've been working on my Mad Scientist credentials for years now...


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## qroox (Mar 1, 2014)

tystikk said:


> Okay, cool- glad folks are curious! To address your observation, I did this in order to place the plant where it made the most sense to me. First, if the stalk and branches are on the outside, I can more easily manipulate and clip them to the trellis. Second, I stuff the growing tips through the trellis, which effectively locates them at the exact optimum distance from the bulb- and of course they get unobstructed access to the light, as well.
> 
> I've competed one run and I've got two more going, each with lessons learned from the last crops, good and bad. So far, I've discovered that I must guard against seeing the plant choke itself by letting it get too dense and tight- and thus larfy.


Hey mate.Nice grow and nice looking plants.Keep em GREEN!!..I'm going vertically after my vegging is done and i'd like to drop a few questions.You've got your shit together and you're into vertical already,so i'd like to hear what you think.I was thinking to place chicken wire around my 400watter and prevent any plant from touching it ? Or place some sort of fence around the plants ( each and every) to prevent them from growing it out ? I'm thinking that doing them 1 by 1 sure takes some space,and it will be a hell to manage.What's your thoughts on that ? I will do probably 8-10 plants inside 1.5m*1.5m*2m growtent,and it will be FULL if i'll add all those types of fencing.I'll definitely get a fan under the bulb (it will be bare) and cross my fingers for a nice harvest.Your thoughts ?


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## qroox (Mar 1, 2014)

I was also thinking i could place some kind of netting around the bulb instead of the walls,and get them to grow there.I'm using 400 watts so i'd probably have to get a little closer to get more efficient..


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## tystikk (Mar 1, 2014)

qroox said:


> I was also thinking i could place some kind of netting around the bulb instead of the walls,and get them to grow there.I'm using 400 watts so i'd probably have to get a little closer to get more efficient..


Okay, lots of good questions here, hope I don't forget any!

First, I run a vertical bare thouie and I don't aim a fan at the bulbs. With two bulbs, I'm running it on a trial basis.

My theory for the trellis is in several parts;
1. Fence holds plants up- the trellis and the plants really act in conjunction; the plants root and stalk locate the trellis cylinder, and the semi rigid sections of mesh keep the plant upright and oriented.
2. Fence holds plants in proper position- in order to capture light efficiently, the distance from the filament to the leaf must be managed as effectively as possible. I'm training these things into the shape of a shoe tree the size of the entire closet door, six feet tall by four full feet wide. Every lateral branch is therefore laid sideways across the trellis, so it curves around the bulb only enough to maintain this optimum distance. It's then vine clipped into place, to cover that portion of trellis. The plant continues to grow up and out during stretch and the branches are all handled the same way.
3. Fence guarantees optimum distance- I built my trellis to be exactly two feet from the bulb on all sides, because I want the plants to be within the 'goldilocks zone' of optimum distance from the bulb, all the way around. If I had it to do over, I might go with a somewhat larger diameter, and indeed I have with the five foot diameter Super Silo. Of course, it has two thouies in it. The growing tips of the plant occur all along the branches, and ALL of them can now be pushed through the trellis, resulting in a great green wall presented to the bulb, radar dish style. And every last one of them is the perfect distance from the light.
4. Fence keeps people out, lol - I mean goddammit people, does it take a special kind of stupid to try and work around HOT ENERGIZED THOUSAND WATT LIGHT BULBS?!?! Or, an I just missing something here? I turn one off at a time, let it cool for 15 minutes, slip a bulb box over it so I don't get it dirty while I work in there, and voilá! Nice and comfy, plenty roomy, no scorching required, lol Burn marks are not a testament to machismo- only a permanent 'sign' Jeff Foxworthy would recognize!

Moving on- I think your trellis should be about 75cm in diameter and 50cm tall. 75 x pi = 235cm, or a little over 7.5' in total circumference. I think you should consider using something like the 2"x4"x50' mesh fencing available at Home dePot, because chicken wire is too small in two ways; first, the Gage is small enough to cut into stems, second, you can't reach through it or pull the plant through it because the holes are too small.

I think the tent will make things harder to reach and deal with, and will cut air flow. If you need it I understand, but it will not help your yield, IME. YMMV, lol

One plant per foot all the way around would allow for seven and a bit. I run just two around a thouie! But I see no reason it wouldn't work, obviously you flip pretty quickly.

Show us what you come up with!


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## qroox (Mar 2, 2014)

SO fencing holds them in the right position(distance and height).Plants ''climb'' it and you're probably tie anything that needs to be tied ? Did i get that correctly ? Seems easy enough! I had the same image in my mind regarding the mesh fencing.Well i just called it chicken wire,but the size is probably what i'm looking for heh.Thanks a LOT for your insight .I should be constructing it soon,i'll be needing it in a few days ..


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## tystikk (Mar 2, 2014)

I actually let the plants do most of their 'climbing' in the veg tent. Once they hit the trellis, they're going to thicken up, but not run long and lanky because the light is now beside them instead of above. Let them get 75% or so of their final height before moving them onto the trellis. This is my approach and thus far it is serving reasonably well. Once it's on the trellis and pointed into place, you'll want to pay careful attention to all the tips, as some will need to be poked through, others may have grown too far inward and need to be pulled back through and repositioned, and the tips where it grows off the edge/top should be cut off entirely at the edge.


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## tystikk (Mar 2, 2014)

Tonight the countdown has begun on the Super Silo- it's in place, plants loaded and the trigger has been PULLED, baby! Let's see what she does!


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## qroox (Mar 3, 2014)

aw man that's great.i finally get your point and i'll do some tweaks myself.i'll be checking this thread out.update us often


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## MedScientist (Mar 3, 2014)

WooHoo! Let the Game BEGIN!

Peace


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## tystikk (Mar 4, 2014)

MedScientist said:


> WooHoo! Let the Game BEGIN!
> 
> Peace


If you've been reading between the lines, you'll realize the game has been 'on' here for months... the only new bit is the four position trellis.

My next setup may have four positions, or only three.


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## dustinpdr420 (Mar 4, 2014)

I'm running a 2000 watt vertical setup on horizontal light movers on a flood and drain table. This is my first run with it but I believe its a keeper setup. I love the ease of maintance I can put my hands on every part of every plant. I too use my op for heat as I have my house acting as the lung room so that the air cycles through the house. I like the cyndrilical approach the only downside I see is you lose some square footage due to the inner diameter being smaller than the outer. I'm trying to achieve 1+ gpw I've been getting .9 consistently out of horizontal so we will see. Great grow tystikk.


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## tystikk (Mar 4, 2014)

That's awesome! Lookin' good dustin!

You're right about the loss of surface area. This is one reason why I'm increasing the diameter of the silo, in order to minimize this effect.


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## dustinpdr420 (Mar 5, 2014)

Problem solved. Rectangular worked best for this setup. I'm putting a shipping container in for next time I'm super excited about it. Great grow tystikk keep pushing your limits right through the roof literally lol.


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## tystikk (Mar 6, 2014)

Did some of the inglorious back end work that keeps things going last night; like training plants onto their trellis, this is ongoing for the first three weeks of bloom. They stretch to fill in their trellis canopies during this time, and it looks like the upright trellis is already more to their liking. 

Transplanted more to keep the perpetual thing going. I'm rearranging my veg so that there's enough room both for batches of rooted clones headed for production and for moms getting big enough to give a dozen cuttings at a time.

I'm still on a quest to run as many different genetics through my setup as I can to determine what strains like this the best in terms of quality and quantity of growth.


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## whodatnation (Mar 6, 2014)

Genetic hunting is a bit difficult in a system sharing medium as different strains feed differently. IME hybrids with long colas do the best in the vert scrog system.

still lurking, obviously


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## tystikk (Mar 7, 2014)

whodatnation said:


> Genetic hunting is a bit difficult in a system sharing medium as different strains feed differently. IME hybrids with long colas do the best in the vert scrog system.
> 
> still lurking, obviously


Hey there! Glad to see you. I have a few tricks up my sleeve to help some otherwise reluctant varieties get a fair shake. Basically, it amounts to giving them extra time to grow and get big before putting them on the trellis and flipping. We'll see how it works. 

As for nutes, while it may seem counterintuitive I've found a single formula- that is, one program fits all- approach has been working well across the board for all strains, save one very picky pheno of cherry lime- so I tossed her. But then, no one else's formulas were working either, lol.

So far, the Dairy Queen looks good and so does the Blue Dream. I've got a couple of interesting phenos I could get a pic or two of as well tomorrow.

Suffice to say that the first full vertical silo run was an unqualified success in terms of how the plants responded to the new environment.


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## Sparky1979 (Mar 7, 2014)

Do you mean water chilling is good or bad?

ive been trying to find out what is the best temperature.

would appreciate any advice


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## tystikk (Mar 8, 2014)

Sparky1979 said:


> Do you mean water chilling is good or bad?
> 
> ive been trying to find out what is the best temperature.
> 
> would appreciate any advice


Hi Sparky, welcome to Rollitup, I see this is your first post.

I believe water cooling indoor grow spaces is the wave of the present and the future for all the same reasons your car is liquid cooled (unless you're a bug motor aficionado, lol)

I aim for my RDWC water to remain somewhere in the mid sixties Fahrenheit. As long as it drops to 65 at least once every 24 hour cycle it should be able to outcompete any pathogens. If the water is below about 55, then you'll notice the plants start to grow and metabolize more slowly.

I run mine around 61-63, with air temps in the mid 80s and CO² augmentation at 1500ppm through mid bloom.


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## Sparky1979 (Mar 10, 2014)

That's just what I wanted to know!!


Many Thanks!


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## tystikk (Mar 10, 2014)

Sparky1979 said:


> That's just what I wanted to know!!
> 
> 
> Many Thanks!


You're very welcome, brother! Many happy returns, and don't forget to pay it forward yourself...


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## tystikk (Mar 11, 2014)

The op I've built is a very carefully crafted lab that reconstructs a commercial indoor growhouse in miniature for developing and testing industry specific and optimized designs, techniques and equipment.

...just in case it wasn't already obvious...


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## JointOperation (Mar 14, 2014)

tystikk nice setup. keep up the great work..


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## killemsoftly (Mar 15, 2014)

Hey tystikk, it"s good to know you're allright. I was eagerly reading a lot of your stuff at the farm when you "vanished". I thought you mighta got pinched or had to do a midnight move. It's good to know it was just bs and you"re okay. I was really interested in ideas you were fleshing out over there: especially the one about moving a light with a higher rpm motor than your standard light rail. i thought that was pretty shrewd stuff. the idea that you could have a bulb really close to a plant and keep it moving fast sounded full of potential. I know that it is only possible to do so much in a day. I'm wondering if you still have that one eating away in the back of your mind just itching to be followed to it"s logical conclusion, ie. 'dial it in' or 'sounded promising but cannot be realised due to x,y or z'.


Anyway dude, good to know your still banging away at THE plant. I have to postpone making the move to trees til i get a strain totally dialed in: moms, veg time, clone time, etc, etc. One thing i was really interested in was your cooling method. I've thought how strange it is that we are pretty much all cooling with a/c not chillers. I came across chillers over 20 years ago and have plans to do a homemade one: 50 gallon drum, 600+gph pump, car radiator, fittings, fans,etd. I figure if i can get 5-10K of btu cooling efficiency out of it I'm set. I was planning on using a freezer to create 1 gallon bricks of ice for the res (during the day) then pop em in for lights on.

I'll pick your brain later. LOL

Sorry didn't mean to hijack. I'm just really excited to be here at RIU and to have come across your posts here in the vert section. It is the future. Now. And it's going to keep on getting brighter. <pause to put my shades on>
Keep on killing em......softly. 

peace to all you ladykillers.


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## tystikk (Mar 16, 2014)

JointOperation said:


> tystikk nice setup. keep up the great work..


Thank you, Sir! This is truly a joint operation we've got going on; first we smoke two joints...


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## tystikk (Mar 16, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Hey tystikk, it"s good to know you're allright. I was eagerly reading a lot of your stuff at the farm when you "vanished". I thought you mighta got pinched or had to do a midnight move. It's good to know it was just bs and you"re okay. I was really interested in ideas you were fleshing out over there: especially the one about moving a light with a higher rpm motor than your standard light rail. i thought that was pretty shrewd stuff. the idea that you could have a bulb really close to a plant and keep it moving fast sounded full of potential. I know that it is only possible to do so much in a day. I'm wondering if you still have that one eating away in the back of your mind just itching to be followed to it"s logical conclusion, ie. 'dial it in' or 'sounded promising but cannot be realised due to x,y or z'.
> 
> 
> Anyway dude, good to know your still banging away at THE plant. I have to postpone making the move to trees til i get a strain totally dialed in: moms, veg time, clone time, etc, etc. One thing i was really interested in was your cooling method. I've thought how strange it is that we are pretty much all cooling with a/c not chillers. I came across chillers over 20 years ago and have plans to do a homemade one: 50 gallon drum, 600+gph pump, car radiator, fittings, fans,etd. I figure if i can get 5-10K of btu cooling efficiency out of it I'm set. I was planning on using a freezer to create 1 gallon bricks of ice for the res (during the day) then pop em in for lights on.
> ...


Politics ruins more perfectly good relationships...

I remember that idea and I still think it has merits. I found it hard to get the parts I needed built, so instead I arranged am alternate solution, one that simultaneously solves other problems as well. That would be the dual bulb Super Silo, which helps with light distribution issues by having two bulbs and making the silo larger in diameter.

I've uncovered quite a few challenges to growing this way, but all have been surmountable, some even trivialized. Things are improving nicely and are settling into a good rhythm, from which stability comes. I'll get back to the light mover ideas eventually, I just have no shortage of other fish to fry right now!

I think getting a water chilling system started would be great- it might not perform up to expectations the first time you turn it on, but you'll have fun and learn a lot tinkering with it. Goodness knows that's how it went with me!


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## sdf (Mar 16, 2014)

Tystikk I just read a thread over on THC farmer about aquaponics and I saw a tystikk posting there so I assume its you (if not sorry) have you tried this out further and if so what was your general consensus about a system for cannabis cultivation.


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## tystikk (Mar 16, 2014)

sdf said:


> Tystikk I just read a thread over on THC farmer about aquaponics and I saw a tystikk posting there so I assume its you (if not sorry) have you tried this out further and if so what was your general consensus about a system for cannabis cultivation.


Yes, that was me on The Head Case farm. I was looking into aquaponics and I still am planning a foray into it, perhaps as soon as this summer.

I think it could be an excellent way to grow cannabis as well as many other fruits, vegetables and herbs. Those who have completed tubs with it all mention the increased aromas and flavors, in terms of increased strength, complexity and subtlety.

Sounds good to me! I'm thinking of starting off with a veg stage and see what happens.


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## sdf (Mar 16, 2014)

Yea I was reading the pages and it started to get complex and confusing. I plan on building a system for a mint plant or something and then seeing how it works. I figure if it works for that I may try it with a clone and see what its like. I'm wondering though about the food and if the fish get sick would it hurt the plants. I think it will be the next thing in organics because it is literally grown from 100% organic shit Haha. I already have a fish tank so I may try to rig something up tomorrow for shits and giggles


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## tystikk (Mar 16, 2014)

sdf said:


> Yea I was reading the pages and it started to get complex and confusing. I plan on building a system for a mint plant or something and then seeing how it works. I figure if it works for that I may try it with a clone and see what its like. I'm wondering though about the food and if the fish get sick would it hurt the plants. I think it will be the next thing in organics because it is literally grown from 100% organic shit Haha. I already have a fish tank so I may try to rig something up tomorrow for shits and giggles


Small, simple systems can get by with just a fish or two and a couple of plants. The key is balance between them.


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## tystikk (Mar 17, 2014)

sdf said:


> Yea I would just want like 4 plants for a 4x4 scrog. The only thing I don't like is its hard to move around a big system like that making it harder to do a perpetual grow in a small set up. Have you seen this?
> http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/175770-aquaponics-success-story.html


I just read into it a little way, but what this guy did five years ago, crafting a system so robust and self correcting that he could leave it unattended for a month at a time is very impressive.

I'm interested in his methods for adding tiny amounts of P and K directly to the rootball.


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## sdf (Mar 17, 2014)

Yea, I wish I could talk to him but I can't find any recent activity from him. I think if someone made a system like that they would be rich


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## tystikk (Mar 18, 2014)

sdf said:


> Yea, I wish I could talk to him but I can't find any recent activity from him. I think if someone made a system like that they would be rich


Based on my experience thus far, building a system like that is the easy part. Actually making a million dollars from it? Now THAT'S hard! LMAO!


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## sdf (Mar 18, 2014)

Lol theoretically of course. I'm not that educated in that field of study but I hope to be


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## tystikk (Mar 20, 2014)

sdf said:


> Lol theoretically of course. I'm not that educated in that field of study but I hope to be


I am. I have a degree in business administration and several entrepreneurial start-ups I'm still paying for... which makes me an 'expert'. If Ralph Nader was, I can be too!

Rolled down to Colorado Springs the other day, picked up some dry nutes for an average of a dollar fitty... a pound. Cheaper than boneless chicken!

I bought enough to turn an Olympic swimming pool into my own personal nutrient reservoir. Hmmmm, mixing equipment built in.... hmmmm.... TREES, ANYONE?! LMFAO!!

The cost was the real eye opener. Yeah, I spent a few hundred bux but if you're a serious grower, that's one visit to the hydro store. Guys, I'm set for YEARS, even if I'm growing ten times more than I am now!

It's easy to kick the water bottle habit, I promise. Just think about how much sexy new growing equipment you could be buying with all the money you AREN'T spending on nutes? Yes, your ass will be sore for awhile; both from carrying fifty pound bags of nutrient salts (none of which cost over $80) and from you kicking yourself for not doing it waaaay sooner!

And the satisfaction of knowing, finally, for once and for all, EXACTLY what the Fuck is in my nutrient reservoir, no marketing hype, secret formulas, weird PGRs or contaminants they're not required to disclose?? 

PRICELESS.


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## killemsoftly (Mar 20, 2014)

Hey tystik,

Keep it up buddy! I had technical issues on my end (can"t wait to get a new computer and some other equipment with my tax return)., so I haven"t been online for a bit. I have an idea percolating in the back of my noggin re: the dark side of the tree. I think I'm gonna flesh this out over the summer and make it real. When i do, i will let all my fellow PerVerts in on it  !

I had a quick question for you about a nutrient calculatro. I remember you and Capulator and a bunch of other guys were working with Jacks/jr peters and then transitioned into raw salts. I've moved to raw salts, 6 pack, and am currently implementing. thing is i only have data (gm/litre) for two ratios: 3:1:3 and 3:3:6. Would you happen to have a link to help me out (a reliable one)? i want to try 3:3:3 and 3:2:2 in veg. In other words, i'm seeing stuff with my plants and want to tweeak my ratios to this plant prior to doing a vert SOG in 3 weeks. Hope i"m not hijacking, it's just i know you have experience with raw salts and hoped you wouldn"t mind digging around for me. I'd really appreciate it.

Also, have you ever tried checkerboarding? I"d have to dig up the link but Heath Robinson did a 4x8 SOG table with alternating 600's. In essence, he ran a table, alternated the lights and still got fantastic yields (32oz) with half the electricity using a flipper relay. I was pretty impressed by the gms/watt ratio he got.

Respect


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## tystikk (Mar 20, 2014)

You're not jackin' my thread, homie. Anyone I can convert to the gospel of dry nutes is well worth the time invested.

I may not be the man to talk to about your specific situation, however. What I did NOT want to do at the time was get in over my head with a million and one nutrient ratios. Since there was little advantage in going to the six pack over using Jacks or similar, I never did...

So the above purchase describes everything I use;
5-11-26 hydroponic mix with micros
Calcium nitrate
MKP, or monopotassium phosphate
Magnesium sulfate, aka epsom salt

That's four of the six, I'm not using MAP (monoammonium phosphate) and IDR what the sixth might be. I can share my recipes with you; they're not secrets, either.


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## tystikk (Mar 20, 2014)

My first horizontal light rotator run was am inadvertent checkerboard. It worked really well... at least for the watts spent. Yield per square foot wasn't very impressive.


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## killemsoftly (Mar 20, 2014)

Thanks for getting back to me Ty. Yeah the 6 pack is: 1 cal-nit,3 k-nit, 6 trace (micros), 2 k-sulpahte, 4 mkp, and 5 mag-sulphate. I list em like that cause i mix em like that. Saves me from my own stupidity. It's the same stuff as what you get in a huge bag. My hydro store sells it. Eventually, like the cheap bastard i am, i will buy the big bags. 

I also take 4' slabs and cut em into rooting cubes and flock. Did i mention I'm a cheap bastard? Truthfully, your bang on about mazimizing usage of any input. There's only so much of anything, including $, so why shouldn't i scrimp/ Then when some dude with health problems is hurting, i can GIVE him/her a free 8th. If i cant give away stuff for free after everything ive been given then there's something wrong with me!

Anything u have re: ratios would be really nice ty. I'm pretty impressed. I went back and read through this forum. You are solving the problem: how can i get the canopy? To end up with 4 sectors on fencing facign a verticl 1kw light is the sh$t! That is were vert can be optimized completely. Along with raising the light on a mover. That's why i mentioned checkerboarding. The idea is perfect to mate to verting with a trellis! a grower could do 6 feet of height (deducted the height of a rdwc container of 2') I believe the goal is to pull 4# from a thouie and i think it can be done with tweaks and the right strain.

For me, i have limits. We all do. I have 9x11x8 of space. the latter is ceiling. i have a 100 amp panel but only 60 of service. i rent and electric is free and not metered (except for the building of 100+ units) i aim to not only thrive but optimize. 

I may have to sacrifice the grand vision in the short run. i will probably do a vert sog with 6 sectors from floor to ceiling. I am going to use stock steel pipe and weld 'holders' for i gallon pots. then i will slide the pots in at a 5 degree angle to the floor. I'll flower at 6''. I will need 96 to do this, ie 16 per pot holder. This is in pro-mix. I have to get a veg tent going to go to trees with trellises for the long run. We'll see.



cheers


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## tystikk (Mar 21, 2014)

I like the trees approach for the consistency but not everyone has space or patience for it. 

Your bedroom could be a monster with some of the trellis designs I've been cooking up lately; for instance, I'll bet I could use my modular system to create as much as 300 ft² of trellis, using 5400 to 9600W of Gavita Proline lighting. Vertical movers would be de rigour to get the most out of it. Assuming heat and dehuey issues can be kept under control (way tougher than you think), it has the potential to pull 30# a run. For this scenario, I'd use just a dozen plants...

But that's a pipe dream. Another option would be to run one Super Silo in there and have all the room you want!


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## killemsoftly (Mar 21, 2014)

You the man Ty! If i were in tip-top shape i"d do four "verts" from floor to ceiling. Each would be 1600w on 4' centers. Let's see: C=2Pir. =6.28x2=~12.5. H=7'. OK, so that's 87.5 x 4=`350ft^2. Ty you low-balling sob !!! That would be effin' awesome! You have vision holmes!

I see what you mean about heat n humidity bro. To run 6400w in that space (800ft^3) or more would require: dehuey, 24k cooling, etc, etc.......If i ran one supersilo instead i"d have 2x1kw of lights to cool and i'd get ........roughly 200ft^2 of canopy. That's impressive. And i"d have much less of a cooling/dehuey issue. 

I've never done a big vert like this. Hell, I've never done a small vert. I'm working with new seed and i think that i want to see this plant do it"s thing in a vert sog (7" of height and 1600w). Plus, i also get the veg time while the sog is blooming to create 4-6 monsters for that space. If i see this as a progression then i can definitely see doing a silo or 2 walls o dank for mid-june. I have the ability to vent outdoors and i can mount a 12k btu a.c unit in the window as well. I'm thinking cool tubes with a twist. on the intake side i could run a heater core(s)/handler to drop the incoming tube air from, potentially, as high as 90F down to 75f. In your experience, is that feasible? Regardless of supersilo or wall o dank, do you think 6 will do or is 12 a safer and more realistic way to go? I'm working with a plant that has strong haze tendencies. I imagine it will go 2-3 times in height when it is bloomed. I think it's critical to see this plant perform in sog before i go big.

Gracias amigo, any/all feedback would be great.



p.s. you have no idea how glad i am to have found where u r chillin! there are very few guys pushing the envelope out here on the forums. As far as i"m concerned we are taking the ideas Heath started pumping out in '07 to their logical conclusion. Not that they are "his". Ideas r just out there. No one invented calculus. Not newton and not leibniz. it exists wether we like it or not. I think you and i and some other like minded growers have a great opportunity to take verting to a whole nother level. PreVerts Rule!! 

<30# by November or bust!>


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## tystikk (Mar 21, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> You the man Ty! If i were in tip-top shape i"d do four "verts" from floor to ceiling. Each would be 1600w on 4' centers. Let's see: C=2Pir. =6.28x2=~12.5. H=7'. OK, so that's 87.5 x 4=`350ft^2. Ty you low-balling sob !!! That would be effin' awesome! You have vision holmes!
> 
> I see what you mean about heat n humidity bro. To run 6400w in that space (800ft^3) or more would require: dehuey, 24k cooling, etc, etc.......If i ran one supersilo instead i"d have 2x1kw of lights to cool and i'd get ........roughly 200ft^2 of canopy. That's impressive. And i"d have much less of a cooling/dehuey issue.
> 
> ...


LOL The only thing that won't fit into your scenario is anyone to work the plants once they're all crammed in there!

My tubs are 15" tall and my trellis is 6.25' x 4' = 25 ft², so I figured three of those per silo times four silos = 300 ft². And it would still be impossibly tight!


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## tystikk (Mar 21, 2014)

The way I run my Super Silo is with four of my 25 ft² trellis, totalling 100 ft². It's a smidgen over 5' in diameter, with two thouies lighting it. The light to square footage remains the same, it's just twice as many lights covering twice as many trellis panels, lol.

The advantage is this; in a smaller silo, the thouie tends to burn in the middle and attenuate too much at top and bottom. With the Super Silo, the sites are six inches further away, reducing light intensity by a full third. It might not seem like enough of a change to make such a big difference but thanks to the magic of the inverse square law, light falling directly adjacent to bare bulbs on the trellis no longer burn- unless they were shaded in veg until they were suddenly exposed to it, another issue entirely. 

In addition, the pattern of light attenuation from each bulb complements the other so that the entire height of the silo gets more evenly lit, with no dark spots. Soooo... no place too dark, no place too bright!

It gets better, too- since the trellis is now taller than it is wide, the plants fill it MUCH better; only once have I gotten a plant to fully fill in a four foot tall by six foot wide trellis. Most leave a foot on each side empty, which is of course unacceptable. Three of the first four plants I've ever put in a Super Silo have filled their trellis, a tough trend to ignore.


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## killemsoftly (Mar 21, 2014)

jDefinitely. the dimensions lend to 2 options: wall o dank left/wall of dank right or SuperSilo(SS). Cause I"m lazy: WOD L/R


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## tystikk (Mar 21, 2014)

Imma gonna keep posting until I answer all your questions, lol It might take awhile!

First, I went vertical in large part to eliminate that layer of glass between bulb and plant. I'm so happy with my choice that I suggest using cool tubes as a very last option, only if forced. Every layer of material reduces the light available, and it heats up- exactly what you're trying to avoid! Instead, let the plants do it naturally- and get ready to wring that air out like a sponge all day, lol

I'm not afraid to admit that I am currently venting the room when RH climbs too high. It's costing a lot of CO² tank money, but the alternatives are worse.


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## tystikk (Mar 21, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> jDefinitely. the dimensions lend to 2 options: wall o dank left/wall of dank right or SuperSilo(SS). Cause I"m lazy: WOD L/R


Here's my issue with this; the heart of the silo concept is the strict maintenance of the bulb to trellis distance, which forces the cylindrical shape based on the inverse square law. Squaring it off will reduce efficiency. I'll admit I don't know by how much.

My goal is to build a modular unit that can be multiplied and manipulated to fit nearly any space, even if not perfectly. It is designed to maintain the essential indoor dimensions while being as flexible as possible in each installation.


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## tystikk (Mar 22, 2014)

I'm still going in and training them every day, spending maybe 10 minutes or less daily, pushing growing tips through the trellis to the bright side.

As the three week mark approaches, I really want to take a lot of the larfy stuff off the outside to let the plant concentrate its energy on the shoots inside where the light is.

I do have a few gaps here and there, but I have at least 75% coverage. Not bad for a first run!


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## taint (Mar 23, 2014)

What do you tell your clients regards the mold and seeds in your buds ty?


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## tystikk (Mar 23, 2014)

taint said:


> What do you tell your clients regards the mold and seeds in your buds ty?


Funny, I've never had that conversation with them. What do you tell them?


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## killemsoftly (Mar 23, 2014)

Hey Ty, I hear ya about the shaping of the plant around the bulb. Seems we are stuck with the geometry eh? Gee, I'm so hard done by!LOL by the by, who's the a$$hole. Gotta love riu, trolls abound....

You know I gotta agree, going to the wall of dank is sheer laziness and doesn"t take advantage of the natural geometry of the light coming off the bulb. Yes, i also agree about the cooltubes. Right now i"m running an open MH bulb (the larger size) off my hps ballast (i just de-wire the ignitor) to veg. I usually work with a hat ( keep bumping my head off the bulb. I keep the air in 800ft^3 moving via 3 fans (plastering trick). I can barely feel any heat at 6". Awesomeness.

i confess. I'm lazy and trying to avoid the drive out to the county to buy 6x6 cattle fence. there it is. i have confessed. I want to go to a fencing that uses 4" or 6" squares as i believe it will be a lot easier to work with than 2 or 3" mesh. I'm interested: have you found that to be the case?

You"re definitely on the mark about runnning one silo in my space. i think any dimension of 12'x12' or less lends itself to the supersilo. To go to the pipedream of 4 smaller silo's would be too much work with too little space. i had thought: just do 4 trees and use 2 thouie's on top of each other but i just don't think you get the inverse square law working in your favour as you mentioned. i don't want to end up in a situation where, due to convenience/laziness my trees grow into the bulb and end up 6" away and then i'm fighting light burn. Seems much easier to get the fencing, hang it from ceiling mounted eye-hooks and tie everything off during veg and stretch. Then i have a canopy i can control and i'm able to move air around much easier. i can def see having 20 gal containers on casters too and rigging up 2x4's so that everything (plant, container, trellis) is movable. Have you foiund this to be the case?

I',m just glad that in a month i can use an 'airbox' that i will make to cool off my room and intake/exhaust directly outdoors (am currently running carbon filter: have chimera's schazz2 and they have a skunk block that built that strain; definitely not for the faint of heart!).

Problem is i ran into a high ratio of males with that strain and re-ordered seeds to cover myself hence the need to do a vertSOG in the meantime.


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## killemsoftly (Mar 23, 2014)

Just to be fair to chimera: i got 100% germination. killed one out of 5. Did have 30 c/88 f temps for a week. have one that i believe will show pistils after 2 weeks flower. The plant has a beautiful structure and has coped well with my learning curve. likes ec in mid-range. stinks good in veg. def need carbon filter. i have heard murmurings of a tendency for more males but i cannot confirm that. my random sample of 10 cannot be considered indicative. one would have to take a random 30 seeds and grow out under ideal conditions to see a proper distribution curve re:male/female ratios. i have not done that. Do not take what i have said in an off-hand way to be fact. Chimers"s seeds are available at: www.hempdepot.ca 

They're service is tip-top. they email confirm shipping if you provide email. i have sent cash and his guys are honest: a rare trait in the seed biz. i will continue to order from them due to service, honesty, etc. Also, i will continue to hunt in chimera's stuff as i believe he puts out some very special stuff. Recently he added over 6 new strains, including 'CBD Lullaby', which i absolutely must have for myself and a bru.No, I don't get anything for saying this. it is my honest opinion and i'm an honest guy. i made some mistakes and, as i mentioned, my results are probably anomalous. Further, i plan on working with my males (smoke the leaf to check potentcy, put em outdoor to check for vigour, mold/mildew resistance, etc). Yes, I am just another pollen-chucker but practice makes perfect.


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## killemsoftly (Mar 23, 2014)

tystikk said:


> The way I run my Super Silo is with four of my 25 ft² trellis, totalling 100 ft². It's a smidgen over 5' in diameter, with two thouies lighting it. The light to square footage remains the same, it's just twice as many lights covering twice as many trellis panels, lol.
> 
> The advantage is this; in a smaller silo, the thouie tends to burn in the middle and attenuate too much at top and bottom. With the Super Silo, the sites are six inches further away, reducing light intensity by a full third. It might not seem like enough of a change to make such a big difference but thanks to the magic of the inverse square law, light falling directly adjacent to bare bulbs on the trellis no longer burn- unless they were shaded in veg until they were suddenly exposed to it, another issue entirely.
> 
> ...


Curious, are you stacking your 1kw lights?

I was thinking of doing that: 1kw on top and a 600 under. Might run the 600 mh for additional spectrum. I thought that i could go for 7' of height by doing this. That would provide for 200sq/ft of trellis. (C=2pir=2*3.14*5=30) Then when i add the vertical dimension of 7' i would get 200 sq/ft of trellis. That would be awesome. I think i would want 8 beasties (2 tiers of 4), with each beast covering 3.5x3'. the second tier would be tough with rdwc unless you went to a big stand alone for each one. Ty, do you think 20 gal is sufficient or is that not enough of a buffer for ph swings? If not, and due to initial outlay, i will probably just use 6gal pots with flock and 2 high flow dripper per pot. I will have to run gutters regardless if i recirc or dtw but hey, no pain no gain.

cheers buddy!


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## tystikk (Mar 23, 2014)

Killenem, you are living up to your nickname, in the most unintentional of ways; I'm on a glorified cellphone so being able to respond to do many detailed questions all at once is hard with this interface. Give me some time to work through what you've written here, lol


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## tystikk (Mar 24, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Curious, are you stacking your 1kw lights?
> 
> I was thinking of doing that: 1kw on top and a 600 under. Might run the 600 mh for additional spectrum. I thought that i could go for 7' of height by doing this. That would provide for 200sq/ft of trellis. (C=2pir=2*3.14*5=30) Then when i add the vertical dimension of 7' i would get 200 sq/ft of trellis. That would be awesome. I think i would want 8 beasties (2 tiers of 4), with each beast covering 3.5x3'. the second tier would be tough with rdwc unless you went to a big stand alone for each one. Ty, do you think 20 gal is sufficient or is that not enough of a buffer for ph swings? If not, and due to initial outlay, i will probably just use 6gal pots with flock and 2 high flow dripper per pot. I will have to run gutters regardless if i recirc or dtw but hey, no pain no gain.
> 
> cheers buddy!


Yes, I stack my thouies, because I see no reason to give the lower half of the plants short shrift. I've never seen an MH make more or better quality product. I've never seen or used a CDM type bulb, so I can't speak to them.

If you want to use radius for calculating your circumference, you double it. If you use diameter for area, halve, THEN square it; you've gotten your numbers off by exactly double; 16' in circumference divided by pi is a shade over 5' in diameter. 16x6.25=100 ft² of trellis surface area, somehow you ended up at double this result.

I am attracted to this size- and early results in testing are supportive- because it places the trellis 30" away from the bulb. This reduces leaf burn. Having two bulbs all but eliminates dark spots. Both of these together means I don't need a light mover to avoid hot spots.

As a design choice, I placed all my RDWC sirs on the ground and encouraged my plants to grow and be TREES! Man, when you DON'T top a pot plant in stretch it shouts up and out like crazy! It seems a waste not to take advantage of that. Do a vertical SOG to bridge the gap between first opportunity and when the staged veg system you built concurrently (?) has bloom ready plants, your cylinder should be ready.

I used to be adamant about the idea that a bloom room is for blooming and nothing else. I've softened my stance on this; while I still feel that most of veg needs to happen elsewhere, the last veg stage before flip needs to be on the trellis, in order for the plant to get big enough to cover its whole trellis panel by the time stretch has finished.


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## tystikk (Mar 24, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Just to be fair to chimera: i got 100% germination. killed one out of 5. Did have 30 c/88 f temps for a week. have one that i believe will show pistils after 2 weeks flower. The plant has a beautiful structure and has coped well with my learning curve. likes ec in mid-range. stinks good in veg. def need carbon filter. i have heard murmurings of a tendency for more males but i cannot confirm that. my random sample of 10 cannot be considered indicative. one would have to take a random 30 seeds and grow out under ideal conditions to see a proper distribution curve re:male/female ratios. i have not done that. Do not take what i have said in an off-hand way to be fact. Chimers"s seeds are available at: www.hempdepot.ca
> 
> They're service is tip-top. they email confirm shipping if you provide email. i have sent cash and his guys are honest: a rare trait in the seed biz. i will continue to order from them due to service, honesty, etc. Also, i will continue to hunt in chimera's stuff as i believe he puts out some very special stuff. Recently he added over 6 new strains, including 'CBD Lullaby', which i absolutely must have for myself and a bru.No, I don't get anything for saying this. it is my honest opinion and i'm an honest guy. i made some mistakes and, as i mentioned, my results are probably anomalous. Further, i plan on working with my males (smoke the leaf to check potentcy, put em outdoor to check for vigour, mold/mildew resistance, etc). Yes, I am just another pollen-chucker but practice makes perfect.


Thanks for the good words about Chimera Seeds. While it's important to know who the scammers are in an industry, it's equally or even more important to give props where they're due.


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## tystikk (Mar 24, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Hey Ty, I hear ya about the shaping of the plant around the bulb. Seems we are stuck with the geometry eh? Gee, I'm so hard done by!LOL by the by, who's the a$$hole. Gotta love riu, trolls abound....
> 
> You know I gotta agree, going to the wall of dank is sheer laziness and doesn"t take advantage of the natural geometry of the light coming off the bulb. Yes, i also agree about the cooltubes. Right now i"m running an open MH bulb (the larger size) off my hps ballast (i just de-wire the ignitor) to veg. I usually work with a hat ( keep bumping my head off the bulb. I keep the air in 800ft^3 moving via 3 fans (plastering trick). I can barely feel any heat at 6". Awesomeness.
> 
> ...


Round trellis for the WIN! I found it easier to work with and the shape helps hold bendy fencing square and in shape better.

No idea who that guy was. That was his first post in the vert section, one can only hope they get better from here.

I'm not going to knock Cap's wall o' dank, because that may well be the right approach for certain space and bulb combinations. Yes, the pure shape is a cylinder, but plants are adaptable...

I'm stepping away from the use of MH anywhere in my op, veg included, in favor of HPS. Every time I've replaced either MH or T5/CFL, my results have improved- especially when controlling for wattage. The last one to go is over my final prebloom veg stage, a stage I'm eliminating in favor of putting the ladies in their blooming trellis a week or three before flip. No one can tell me that one MH above is worth two thouies in (between) the bush!

Dude, that's not just air movement, that's a fuckin' HURRICANE! I love it! Add a howling wind soundtrack and toss a lil dry coco up in the air and I'd call that a high quality simulated experience! LMFAO!

My next shot at trellis fencing will be 4" square mesh, big enough to get hands through but small enough for good support and stability.

I like one Super Silo in that room, for all the reasons you mention, plus the fact that you need to be on your climate control game with this setup; once those girls start cranking out growth, the amount of water they'll be transpiring will be awe inspiring- and you'll need to make sure they get enough to drink without pH and EC swings, AND be ready to remove a lot of water from the airspace. Experience as a drywaller will be handy here, as while I'm on record as saying higher humidity is good for growth, I'm also going to tell you that too much of anything is never good. If your RH climbs over 75%, do whatever it takes to bring it to about 70%. As late bloom and finish approach, drop RH gradually, and for the final week it needs to be in the fifties. The extra RH is for supporting the plant's growth and use of augmented CO² levels. Once it's done growing, both high CO² levels and the high humidity it works best with are no longer desirable or welcome.

I did not follow what you were talking about with two thouies above each other.

The reason I'm talking about RH so much will become self evident right about early peak bloom, if your girls are filling in their trellis. Once it happens, you're in scramble mode, so I'm telling you now to be ready. My water chilling system is up to the job of cooling my spaces but it can't keep up with the dehuey requirements. Until I figure out a more permanent solution, I'm just venting the room when RH exceeds 75%. It wastes a lot of CO² tank money, but it's worth it.

Another option to filling your room- once you have a few vert runs under your belt and know more about their various requirements; consider 600W bulbs double stacked in a trellis three feet in diameter (10' circumference) by six feet tall, for sixty ft² per trellis. Four of these could be crammed into a bedroom of the size you mentioned...

If you hook your trellis to the ceiling, how would you move it around on casters? I have thought about building a system on wheels, but the only place it makes any sense at all is in a commercial setting. All my trellis are too tall to fit through my doors as it is. I harvest in place instead of taking the plant somewhere else. Once all the nugs are off the tree they're a lot easier to work with anyway, and I see no reason to disassemble or move the entire works for any stage. I put my plants in netpot bucket lids, so THEY would be mobile and the sites they go into wouldn't need to be.


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## taint (Mar 24, 2014)

I guess l got confused when you made these posts.


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## tystikk (Mar 24, 2014)

Yup. No client got anyone near that. It's MY job to induce error by pushing the limits.


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## killemsoftly (Mar 24, 2014)

Hey ty, sorry buddy didn"t mean ta 'kill ya' hahaha!

I'm just doing my math a little weird. C=2Pir gives me a circumference. when i multiply out my circumference by the height of the silo i am able to compare a vert super silo area to a conventional horizontal method area. So, i misunderstood your basic parameter----> bulb distance, ie 'centers'. So with 'centers' of 5', bulb distance is around 2.5' at begining of bloom and 1.5' at end? ok, so c=16' if i manage to fill up to say 6' then i have 96 ft^2 of trellis wheres a 'hori' gives only 32ft^2. It is triple the growing area.

Yeah i know.....i'm an animal, right?....go big or go home i say

I'm sourcing an 18.5k btu window a/c unit. the limiter is my window width (27"). if 29" i coulda gone 22k. oh well. I also can source dehuey's for as low as $50 used. I'm one of these guys who can fix/re-engineer anything (nearly). I built my own 240v 50 amp powerboard. So, i will do a little research re: how manby btu/amps i need to run to dry out 75% humidity air at 84F. I am planning on doing what ur doing: venting out, dehuey, a/c, but no co2. I can run 2x 1kw bulbs with 600w under them. However, i will flip-flop the 600w a la HR as i don"t want to overheat the room and go high on my board's capacity. I guess i need to run a few more numbers to feel content with my line vs. load and know i am in a good spot. 12 amps of lights, 15 amps cooling is 27 amps at 240v. So i have lotsa room for dehuey, fans, etc. Another 23 amps at 240v seems plenty of room. I will try to source a dehuey that is 240v. Be nice to find a good one that runs at 7 amps and does 2400 ft^2. Then i am at 34 amps peak. plenty of room.

The plastering trick is to put 4 fans. 1 in each corner of the room. then u point them at the ceiling (45 degree angle) put em on high. Do not oscillate. they all throw air at the same spot in the ceiling. It creates a 'cyclone effect' that draws air up (good for verters). the air swirls around the room. i currently have 3-5" seedlings that are shy 2 weeks old in this room under a 1000mh. they love it. My clones (8-12") love it, my 3 trees (3'by 3', 5x3 and 4x4) all love it. I can cut 200 off the trees right now if i want. Everybody is happy and there are no dead spots in the room. Plasterers use the cyclone to dry ceiling corners out in basements during the hot, humid summers of the construction season. It's a good technique. the advantage to trellising re: air movement is that it creates much less resistance than a 5x5 trees does so the cyclone should work pretty well in my room. also, i plan on making a plenum out of 24ga sheet metal. this way the 18.5k a/c unit pulls hot air from the ceiling area and blows cold air at 4'. a lot of that will fall down and be drawn through the canopy by the 4 fans creating the cyclone. Should run real nice.

Really appreciate your experience and input. It really does help to work it out here. I finished a drawing yesterday and will throw it up some time this week.

Also, Ty don"t feel pressured to get back to me fast. I'm actually a patient guy just a bit excited currently. I read and re-read your posts to get a sharper understanding of what your saying and what realities i will be facing. Hence the research on a/c, dehuey, etc. If you see me post don't worry if you can't reply for a week. No biggee dude. At a certain point i gotta figure it out myself and implement for my time line. that's always my responsibility and things are shaping up pretty good.


Just know, it has been invaluable to have picked your brain. Even if you never gave me another juicy nugget I'm pretty content with what i now know. Have plans to put down a real sticky primer and do eggshell white in there. I want the ability to clean the surface of the room. I will heed your advice re: vegging in place (last 10-14 days) and not moving once in the "bloom room". Very sound.

Cheer and thanks again amigo!


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## tystikk (Mar 24, 2014)

taint said:


> I guess l got confused when you made these posts.


Let me help clear up your confusion. If you think I let my clients act as my guinea pigs when testing new designs, equipment, techniques or environmental conditions, then you're completely, utterly mistaken.

I take it upon myself to take the risks, try the new ideas, push the environmental conditions to their limits, see what happens when shortcuts are taken, etc.

If one never tests the limits, how does one ever find them? Regarding RH, for example. It's a lot like salting your steak; none isn't very tasty, a little is better, the right amount (for your taste) is best- and too much is too much. Does it make sense not to use the salt just because it's possible to use too much? Of course not! The same is true of RH... and since I've run low, medium, high and extreme values, I know what those values really are, how they differ from the court of politically correct forum opinion, and what factors influence when and how a given value might be correct or not and what to look for. One does not gain this knowledge by coloring safely inside the lines.

For reference; not one of my clients has gone vertical yet. On the other hand, not one uses water bottled nutes from a hydro store anymore, either.


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## tystikk (Mar 24, 2014)

Killenemsoftly, the only thing I love to cultivate more than cannabis are open minds. I'd never leave you high n dry if I had the knowledge, but you knew that already.

The plasterers' technique sounds great, and should work well with the porous nature of the vertical trellis. I'm aiming a big 24" fan straight up inside my Super Silo right now, it draws cool air in from between the RDWC tubs near the floor and blues it straight up past the bulbs. I'm sure air flows outward all up and down the silo. The plants show zero signs of heat stress this way.


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## tystikk (Mar 24, 2014)

To respond to your questions about HVAC: it may not have been mentioned much in this thread, but I run water cooled on a flip schedule. Water cooling allows for more dehuey, but since the technology isn't as mature in this industry as AC is, we're kinda on our own.

I started with a bunch of 8" Iceboxes and a 2 Ton ChillKing window mount chiller, all of which I still have. The Iceboxes only have about 50sq in of surface area, not really enough for dehuey even with several. The chiller keeps the temperature under control well enough, but the air handler side needs to be bigger to deal with the speed at which the plants will be transpiring water.

This is why I'm venting right now, and my short term plan is to raid a local junkyard for a used radiator or two and see if a larger heat exchanger will help draw more moisture out of the air. If I can recapture the water and return it to the RDWC my ratios will change more slowly, it will require fewer topups. Keeping the room sealed will also conserve CO².


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## killemsoftly (Mar 24, 2014)

http://www.novabiomatique.com/hydroponics-systems/plant-606-igs-030r-discontinued.cfm

Might be worth checking these guys controllers out. I have a model that's discontinued. It's a solid state 15a, 2 hp, humidity controller. It sets for dehuey/humifiy mode and does a different night setting. Right now, i"m drawing in 22 celsius air that's only 10% humidity. I"m charging the intake air with a y fitting that passes over a 5gal pail lid (custom fit by me). Inside the pail is a 600 gph pump with a header and 2 sprayers on it. The point is, a humidity controller like i have let's me run a dedicated device to control humidity. Winter, humidify and fall, springl, summer run dehuey. You are running co2 so these guys stuff would be perfect for you. I bet they have an integrated co2/humidity/temp controller you could grab for a decent price. there stuff lasts and is excellent quality. i also run a dedicated temp controller for in/ex fans. I run: 55% rh and 26 degrees celsius lights on and 50% rh 24 celsuis lights off. It is awesome having this tight control and i would never give it up as i scale up. there"s even a load switcher that lets you send a signal to a high amperage device (say 20 amps to 230v cooling device) and open it's power. they are in quebec and there stuff is incredible. serious ty, i bet any rough edges could be iron out with these guys stuff.


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## tystikk (Mar 24, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> http://www.novabiomatique.com/hydroponics-systems/plant-606-igs-030r-discontinued.cfm
> 
> Might be worth checking these guys controllers out. I have a model that's discontinued. It's a solid state 15a, 2 hp, humidity controller. It sets for dehuey/humifiy mode and does a different night setting. Right now, i"m drawing in 22 celsius air that's only 10% humidity. I"m charging the intake air with a y fitting that passes over a 5gal pail lid (custom fit by me). Inside the pail is a 600 gph pump with a header and 2 sprayers on it. The point is, a humidity controller like i have let's me run a dedicated device to control humidity. Winter, humidify and fall, springl, summer run dehuey. You are running co2 so these guys stuff would be perfect for you. I bet they have an integrated co2/humidity/temp controller you could grab for a decent price. there stuff lasts and is excellent quality. i also run a dedicated temp controller for in/ex fans. I run: 55% rh and 26 degrees celsius lights on and 50% rh 24 celsuis lights off. It is awesome having this tight control and i would never give it up as i scale up. there"s even a load switcher that lets you send a signal to a high amperage device (say 20 amps to 230v cooling device) and open it's power. they are in quebec and there stuff is incredible. serious ty, i bet any rough edges could be iron out with these guys stuff.


That page you sent me had a link to a box that would cut power to its controlled outlet if RH is too high. That might be what I need, I'll look into it further.


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## tystikk (Mar 25, 2014)

Today, my 2 Ton ChillKing window mount unit FAILED. It's only 9 months old!

Warranty process has already been started; I will keep you all up to date on how my claim is treated.

I'm not dead in the water; because this HAS HAPPENED BEFORE WITH CHILLKING, I have a second, rebuilt 2 Ton ChillKing window mount unit! It's currently handling chilling chores until the first one gets fixed.

It failed in MARCH? IN COLD WEATHER? WHILE IT SAT INSIDE ALL WINTER AND NEVER SAW SUB FREEZING TEMPERATURES?! I will be very interested in the diagnosis...


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## killemsoftly (Mar 25, 2014)

Yeah that its kinda strange. I'd expect it to go under full load in July. That company link i sent you: you kinda have to nose around their site. They discontinued the solo device i have: dedicated rh controller for 15a load. The reason i suggested it is that if you want 'tight' control over rh(+ or -5%) they make quite a few really nice integrated controllers. Given your probably running some high loads and co2, the controller can be use to send a "load on" signal to a high voltage switcher that could run 120v/230v-240v devices (chiller, dehuey, etc.). it's best to read through brochures and the website. Bear in mind, they are a quebec based company and their translation to english is a little off. Having said that, i believe they warranty their stuff for 3-5 years. check out this when you have a minute: http://www.novabiomatique.com/hydroponics-systems/plant-629-igs-221-co2.cfm I believe it will put data right onto your computer via rj-45.


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## killemsoftly (Mar 25, 2014)

am happy to hear you got a back up device, sweet dude!


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## tystikk (Mar 25, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> am happy to hear you got a back up device, sweet dude!


Oh buddy, you don't know the half of it; last summer I had another chiller fail (NOT the fault of the equipment last time, credit where it's due, more on that soon) and I did not have a backup. That potential nightmare was headed off by good timing and a bit of luck; Colorado tapwater runs COLD all winter and even in May it hadn't warmed up fully for the summer. At 60F, it was just cool enough to use AS the fluid in the cooling circuit- so for two weeks, I did!

I already had a second chiller on layaway. It took two weeks to raise the necessary funds and in that time I used a lot of water, which is why I consider it a last resort. Later on and through summer, tapwater warms into the seventies, eliminating this option until late fall once again refrigerates the entire state, water supply and all.


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## tystikk (Mar 25, 2014)

I told y'all I'd shoot straight about how Hydro Innovations is taking care of me.

They called me back within the hour with several options to proceed; bring it in, or have any of several authorized reps do a service call. They explained that ChillKing is not an in house brand, it's another separate company with whom Hydro Innovations did a lot of business when they were based in Texas. One of the reasons they now build all of their own chillers, even the smaller ones like mine, is because they were not happy with the number of service calls these units generated. They stopped doing business with ChillKing some several years ago, and so the warranty period they were responsible for has run out on all units that got sold.... but some sat in inventory at retail shops, and ended up in the hands of people like me. 

Rather than attempt to wash their hands of the whole thing, they've chosen instead to back the original parts only warranty AND diagnose the problem gratis if I could get it to them. If it's a cheap fix like a capacitor, it will be a done deal. If it's the compressor, they'll work with the manufacturer- the unit has a five year warranty from date of manufacture... April of 2010! Yeah, this thing sat around in inventory for a minute before it came home with me last summer!

I called friends until I got ahold of a pal with a van- and I got a tour of their very spacious and complete facility, got a peek at several projects they've got in the works- great stuff!- and came away with some extremely fascinating news about their new in-house Banks brand of specialty built chilling systems. More on that soon, too.

In short, they had the chance to bounce the ball back to ChillKing and sweep it under the rug- and instead, they've handled it themselves from half court for three points.

I'll let ya know what the diagnosis is when they call me.


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## killemsoftly (Mar 25, 2014)

cool, dude i'm glad their sorting you out properly. kinda a bummer but hey live and learn right?


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## killemsoftly (Mar 25, 2014)

oh. Dropped a seed order in the mail today. Next tuesday i"ll be putting 20 seeds to bed. Trying out a Johnny Blaze meets Cindy 99 and a Petrolia headstash meet C99. Should be interesting to see what goodness they reveal to me in the next 14-16 weeks. Yum yum boys and girls......

Descriptions can be found here:



Extremely honest and reliable folks:


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## killemsoftly (Mar 25, 2014)

oh. Dropped a seed order in the mail today. Next tuesday i"ll be putting 20 seeds to bed. Trying out a Johnny Blaze meets Cindy 99 and a Petrolia headstash meet C99. Should be interesting to see what goodness they reveal to me in the next 14-16 weeks. Yum yum boys and girls......

Descriptions can be found here:



Extremely honest and reliable folks:


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## killemsoftly (Mar 25, 2014)

oh. Dropped a seed order in the mail today. Next tuesday i"ll be putting 20 seeds to bed. Trying out a Johnny Blaze meets Cindy 99 and a Petrolia headstash meet C99. Should be interesting to see what goodness they reveal to me in the next 14-16 weeks. Yum yum boys and girls......

Descriptions can be found here:http://hempdepot.ca/seeds/Beanho/JohnnyBlazexC99.html and: http://hempdepot.ca/seeds/Beanho/PetroliaHeadstashxC99.html



Extremely honest and reliable folks at Hempdepot guys and gals:http://hempdepot.ca/other/aprices.html


Sorry. Botched something the first time. Stoners, eh? Hahahaaaa...!!!


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## tystikk (Mar 26, 2014)

The first picture is of Longs Peak, on the way to Hydro Innovations. These plant pics aren't sexy, but this should give some idea of the silo system I'm developing:


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## tystikk (Mar 26, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> cool, dude i'm glad their sorting you out properly. kinda a bummer but hey live and learn right?


I learned long ago that good customer service is well worth looking for- and paying for once you've found it. The tour was revealing in many ways, they're doing some amazing things that show the true potential of water chilling. For instance, they have an optional kit to convert their most popular chillers to add the excess heat being removed from the cold water circuit to another separate HOT water circuit. The unit does it automatically and even sheds excess heat into the air when you're not using it all. What could you use hot water for?


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## tystikk (Mar 26, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> oh. Dropped a seed order in the mail today. Next tuesday i"ll be putting 20 seeds to bed. Trying out a Johnny Blaze meets Cindy 99 and a Petrolia headstash meet C99. Should be interesting to see what goodness they reveal to me in the next 14-16 weeks. Yum yum boys and girls......
> 
> Descriptions can be found here:http://hempdepot.ca/seeds/Beanho/JohnnyBlazexC99.html and: http://hempdepot.ca/seeds/Beanho/PetroliaHeadstashxC99.html
> 
> ...


Lol that's a pretty unique way to bump up my posting numbers, I'll give you that! 

I have a Cindy99 cross myself; Dairy Queen. It's one of my most popular strains. LOVE IT!


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## killemsoftly (Mar 26, 2014)

Nice shots ty, definitely getting the picture. Seems to make sense to make em grow up to the bulb to fill out the canopy/trellis then drop the light a bit (post-stretch) and watch em swell. Can"t wait to find the right candidates for that job! lol


Gotta love that chiller innovation. It'd be pretty sweet to have a hot side to run water heating via a handler for household heating, hot-water, garage, driveway. Then in the off season you just direct it to a spot and dump it out. Am i following the concept right> Do you have any links for the guys you are dealing with? I'll try to only post this once, hahaha!


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## tystikk (Mar 26, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Yeah that its kinda strange. I'd expect it to go under full load in July. That company link i sent you: you kinda have to nose around their site. They discontinued the solo device i have: dedicated rh controller for 15a load. The reason i suggested it is that if you want 'tight' control over rh(+ or -5%) they make quite a few really nice integrated controllers. Given your probably running some high loads and co2, the controller can be use to send a "load on" signal to a high voltage switcher that could run 120v/230v-240v devices (chiller, dehuey, etc.). it's best to read through brochures and the website. Bear in mind, they are a quebec based company and their translation to english is a little off. Having said that, i believe they warranty their stuff for 3-5 years. check out this when you have a minute: http://www.novabiomatique.com/hydroponics-systems/plant-629-igs-221-co2.cfm I believe it will put data right onto your computer via rj-45.


I already have an environmental controller, a Sentinel CHHC-4. What I lacked was a plan for keeping excess humidity down, since the water chilling system wasn't keeping up.


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## tystikk (Mar 26, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Nice shots ty, definitely getting the picture. Seems to make sense to make em grow up to the bulb to fill out the canopy/trellis then drop the light a bit (post-stretch) and watch em swell. Can"t wait to find the right candidates for that job! lol
> 
> 
> Gotta love that chiller innovation. It'd be pretty sweet to have a hot side to run water heating via a handler for household heating, hot-water, garage, driveway. Then in the off season you just direct it to a spot and dump it out. Am i following the concept right> Do you have any links for the guys you are dealing with? I'll try to only post this once, hahaha!


I run two lights inside the Super Silo, and they don't move, either with a mover, or at various points in the cycle. They stay fixed and their lighting patterns reinforce one another for even lighting throughout.


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## tystikk (Mar 26, 2014)

Hydro Innovations (dot com) in Boulder. I'm very impressed with the level of technical sophistication, capabilities, facilities and staff. I've already discussed how well they're taking care of my warranty issue, that's going to plan.


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## killemsoftly (Mar 26, 2014)

Hey dude, checked out their website. Love the 2ton w/matching handler; very sweet. perfect for running 2 bloomrooms on a flip schedule. 

Was wondering about your integrated controller. I assume co2 gets top priority. The temps high/low set points you use to run your chiller right? Does it not have a huey OR dehuey set point high/low as well? I run a dedicated temp controller for fans/cooling and rh controller for humidifying. Currently, have no choice. Lung room rh is down at 10%. Soon i can change the rh controller to dehuey if/when spring starts. Sometimes i don't hit my temp set point (high) and my humidity is at 80%. Conventional wisdom be damned, plants love it. Gonna have to buy a dehuey within a month though.


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## tystikk (Mar 27, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Hey dude, checked out their website. Love the 2ton w/matching handler; very sweet. perfect for running 2 bloomrooms on a flip schedule.
> 
> Was wondering about your integrated controller. I assume co2 gets top priority. The temps high/low set points you use to run your chiller right? Does it not have a huey OR dehuey set point high/low as well? I run a dedicated temp controller for fans/cooling and rh controller for humidifying. Currently, have no choice. Lung room rh is down at 10%. Soon i can change the rh controller to dehuey if/when spring starts. Sometimes i don't hit my temp set point (high) and my humidity is at 80%. Conventional wisdom be damned, plants love it. Gonna have to buy a dehuey within a month though.


I like running with my RH up in the mid 70s, myself, same reason; damning convention, lol

Yes, the controller can be set for adding or reducing RH, and right now, it's tied to an exhaust fan; when RH climbs too high, the extractor fan kicks on.

Tuesday's meeting with the people at Hydro Innovations told me that 8" Iceboxes are woefully inadequate in terms of surface area. They showed me a dual air handler approach that allows for separate control for dehuey and cooling.

I'm in lust with their Banks 5 Ton unit, with the hot water circuit option. If I get that bitch, my furnace is OUTTA THERE! My hot water heater will be for backup, if I bother at all. And my home will be the beneficiary of hot and cold running water for domestic use AND HVACR.

Such a unit would provide the incentive to build out the hot water circuits here, and when that's done I will look into the purchase of a few thousand watts worth of FUEL CELL ELECTRICAL POWER COGENERATION. Electricity for less than the power company can provide, and FREE HEAT cogenerated as part of the process is yours as part of the deal- and the savings. Once the cost of heat is factored in, fuel cells can pay for themselves in just a few years in colder markets.

Tonight I'm attending the local city power utility's public meeting for discussion of future opportunities and challenges. I intend to hold their feet to the fire to accept power from consumers and pay at a rate that provides real incentive for people to do it, instead of merely paying lip service until they get their next coal fired soot belcher online.

Watch this space!


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## killemsoftly (Mar 27, 2014)

Outta sight Ty, Fuckin' Fantastic!

I love it. I'm very interested in what you're up to next vis a vis chillin, tech upgrades, etc. Awesome amigo! You go bro, sell those bastards back some real GREEN power  baby!

When you've gone through the process you need to implement I'd love to get some links off you so's i can read up on the fuel cells. I've done a fair amount of reading and research on chillers, handlers, mini-splits, etc but have never done any reading on fuel cells. In the past they had a rep for being unstable, wether that is deserved or not idk?

i recently had an epiphany that will simplify my grow. There's a strain that was developed in Quebec. It thrives in lower light conditions and is very mold resistant. I can source it at hempdepot.ca This strain will do the wall of dank shuffle perfectly. if a tree grows out 4' from the wall and the bulb ends up 12-18'' away in a straight line to the bulb then the distance 2.5' to the left or right of the bulb will be: D^2=x^2+y^2; =1.5''^2'+2.5''^2=2.25+6.25; D^2=8.5~3' In other words the plant is 1.5' away from the bulb as it faces it and only 3' at it's left and right. It makes my life so much simpler to just let the plant grow as a tree and do it's thing iff I have a strain that can cope with lower light levels and still produce. 

I hear ya about rh. Plants love high rh, way beyond what the dogmatist would have you believe. these guys quote growing orthodoxy like it's a religion. At week5/6 of bloom it may, however, be time to start dropping rh, especially at lights out eh? I was just curious in my last post as to why you weren't running dedicated dehuey and saving the c02. I think you were doing what i would have done and waited to upgrade the 'handler' side of things so that you could have tighter control. What's the point of buying an intermediate device like a basement home dehuey if one should upgrade a handler. I betcha once ya upgrade you will have such tight control you will be as happy as a man who finds out his geothermal guy upgraded him to 480v 3phase. Well, maybe not that happy but close. 


Congrats again dude. Sky's the limit


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## tystikk (Mar 27, 2014)

Did you realize these guys actually have NUCLEAR POWER as an energy production option for 'mid term consideration', meaning 20-50 years from now- and fuel cells simply weren't on the chart at all? 

I heard exactly no one miss their chance to tell the power company to take nuclear power off the table as an option, full stop. That's nice and all, but to make sure they don't start scheming about doing it anyway, ("No emissions! Better nuclear power options are coming out all the time! Every technology has problems..." ) I want to be there ready to rock and roll with a viable, practical, cost effective and fuel flexible solution that makes nuclear impossibly expensive, and therefore unattractive.

I went several steps further and not only fleshed out the fuel cell option, but made a point of placing that fuel cell in the customer's own home, so they can take advantage of the benefits of cogeneration right where they live. I then challenged them to advocate for the right of consumers to actually contribute whatever excess electricity they've generated back to the grid at a reasonable market price. 

Currently, their wholesale cost of power is about 70% of retail price on average. Peak load power generation is many times more expensive than that. They generate electricity at about 35% efficiency, and since these are plants at remote sites, the heat is simply dumped. The only reason that's affordable is because the price of coal has been locked in by long term contracts- and those are set to rise drastically in the next few years, as these contracts come up for renewal and begin to reflect current market realities.

One of the most exciting technologies coming online from the power company's perspective is a 'combined cycle' natural gas fired power plant, where the heat from the glorified jet turbine engine spinning the generator is also captured and utilized to generate additional power, bringing total efficiency up to the 60% neighborhood. Since the cost of natural gas is roughly ten times that of coal, this doesn't exactly reduce the price of generated power overall, even if it does look REALLY good as a low producer of CO² per megawatt.

Fuel cells already generate electricity at 40-65% efficiency, handily beating the power company at its own game- even before the benefits of cogenerated heat are factored in. That pushes total efficiency towards 90%, territory nothing in the power company's inventory can touch. The best part is that fuel cells actually work best and longest when they're run flat out, 100% constantly, like the little base load power generators they are. When the homeowner doesn't use all the power, s/he should be able to sell the excess back to the grid for someone else to use. This creates huge incentives for the kind of distributed power network we've been hearing about for years- but never seem to see progress in actually getting built.

I told y'all at the very beginning of this thread that it was going to be heavy on geek and light on glamour shots. The simple fact of the matter is that cannabis has become a looking glass, through which we can see the future of everything we do as a species. Few fields of human endeavor are immune from the influence of this industry, or its needs.


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## tystikk (Mar 28, 2014)

But what about solar? Solar power has a problem; nighttime. Seriously, if your solar panel is rated at 100 watts of peak power, after all is said and done, they produce only 16%, or an average of just 16 watts over time. No wonder they take 30 years to pay for! Wind is better; they get up to 30% of maximum rated power over time- but it's not predictable, and it's far more variable than solar. 

Batteries suck; power, that is! Betcha didn't know that you only get 60-75% of your juice back out of a full charge? Transmission lines suck too; on average, HALF of all power generated is lost just sending it to the customer! That's compounding all the inefficiencies of producing it remotely even more...

Fuel cells are the future. There simply is no other alternative that's anywhere near as efficient, or as ready for prime time. But you don't want to shackle yourself to fracking for life, you say? No problem, I say! Your future fuel cell will be happy to nosh on biogas, munch methane- and its favorite fuel of all is clean hydrogen, produced any way you want.

Now, all we have to do is drag the establishment into this bright new future, kicking and screaming if necessary! It's up to YOU.


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## tystikk (Mar 28, 2014)

...and here's the one single biggest thing YOU can do to secure our energy future from the monopolists; write any and all of your elected representatives and tell them you want to be able to sell your excess home generated power back to the power company- and that you should be paid fairly for that power, so that if you're providing it at the time of highest demand, you should be paid a lot more for it than if you're producing it when demand is low. After all, the power company does- the more we save them when it counts, the more it's worth, right? This is one of those ideas that really can change the world for the better, and how can YOUR senator, congressman, city council member, publicly elected energy policy committee member or chair, assemblyman, city manager...


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## killemsoftly (Mar 28, 2014)

Hey ty,

You know we are in kind of a tough spot here in N. America. Economy is 'booming' with 3%GDP growth and our recesssions are getting nastier and nastier. We've got all this aging infrastructure we built up from the post war era boom:water, elec, pipelines. You name it. Man, it is going to be a mess. The smart guy/gal is definitely going to want to look to be independent as much as possible. I have to go back through my high school sciences, thank f$ck i went through high school and some university level maths a few years ago or i"d be lost. I'm gonna have to get a handle on fuel cells, geo-thermal, nat-gas wells, etc and see what my options are for down the road. I can see a future in 10 years where rising energy/food costs have a drastic effect on living standards.

Any and all links you have to any of this stuff would be much appreciated.

Wanna hear a good one: have had high rh for a week or so. Had to use a really sticky basement primer to get rid of some pink algae and a touch of black mold in a corner. Also, becasue i found tape to be ineffective I used popsicle sticks to label 2 new strains i'm trying out. The popsicle sticks got moldy. Guess what has never show one sign of mold or pm? You guessed it: the plants! I wonder where this paranoia around rh came from. I remember a guy telling me that where he lived a lot of guys took their fresh air intake from a roof vent. In that area there was a tendency for a certain type of mold spore to get into their grows during the fall or spring. Probably from rotting leaves at ground level. I'm pretty much convinced that their are so many species/varietals of pm, gray mold, mites, thrips, etc. that it is pretty tough to come up with a hard and fast rule. I prefer to observe, learn, inprovise, adapt,etc. I'm pretty happy with how much i've learned/am learning and keep plugging away. 

I tell you, i am super excited to see if i can get this low-light adapted strain to be a tree and produce well in a wall of dank. It's supposedly a really intense smoke too. I guess what i like about verting is that the obsession with even canopy isn't a limiter. I've done some drawings. My space has a corner where heating pipes are boxed in. i lose 9''x 22'' there. Also, the door opens in and has a 30'' radius. I figure that i can do trees and some sog as a work around of the room not being a perfect rectangle. i can't wait to see how all this plays out over the next few months.

I'll be interested to see what options you go with on the chiller system. Man, if i were you i would be so stoked.


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## tystikk (Mar 29, 2014)

Killenemsoftly, you must really like goading me up onto my soapbox, LOL

The 'recession' we're currently suffering through is the result of a systemic shift of income to be more and more unequal, to the point of unsustainable- nevermind unjustifiable- extremes.

I just googled 'fuel cells for sale', last I checked, I could get 1kWh of fuel cell powered electrical generation for $5000, plus installation. Search around and see what you find, and share with me?

High RH is fine until late peak bloom, when it's time to start dialing it down. By the last week it should be below 60%.

I'm excited to see what you come up with for your space!


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## tystikk (Mar 31, 2014)

Bubba Nub said:


> How's that fan workin out for ya?


Update; fan blowing straight up the silo works great.


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## tystikk (Mar 31, 2014)

A few recent shots. Things are coming along.


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## ttystikk (Apr 7, 2014)

New site looks good!


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## ttystikk (Apr 8, 2014)

The silo is cruising along, stacking on growth every day. I'm just checking pH and EC and watching...


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## ttystikk (Apr 10, 2014)

Did a nutrient changeout last night, girls look like they're enjoying their home.


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## ttystikk (Apr 11, 2014)

Recent crop pix;


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## ttystikk (Apr 11, 2014)

Okay, so using this website from a smartphone is officially a pain in the ass.

This is a regular four foot tall by four foot diameter silo, and the plant did not fill it in. This is one problem the Super Silo solves, the other being uneven light distribution, without resorting to crazy ideas like mountain bikes hanging from the ceiling, lol

These units are coming into their own, I think.


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## taint (Apr 11, 2014)

That is adoreable........and answers all questions which is prolly why you avoid pics so much.
Must be really bad if that was the best you could cherry pick a pic truely is worth all of your delusion filled babblings.
One hint...........lowering the rh will tighten them fluffs up quite a bit.


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## slumdog80 (Apr 11, 2014)

Good to see you around Ttystikk and glad I found this thread. I will be busting out my reading glasses...


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## ttystikk (Apr 12, 2014)

slumdog80 said:


> Good to see you around Ttystikk and glad I found this thread. I will be busting out my reading glasses...


Good to see you, thanks for the kind words! It's still early on figuring out what works. I'm optimistic, none of the issues I've run across are insurmountable.


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## ttystikk (Apr 12, 2014)

taint said:


> That is adoreable........and answers all questions which is prolly why you avoid pics so much.
> Must be really bad if that was the best you could cherry pick a pic truely is worth all of your delusion filled babblings.
> One hint...........lowering the rh will tighten them fluffs up quite a bit.


Hey, thanks for the encouraging words. Next time you try something different I hope you receive the same.


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## ttystikk (Apr 13, 2014)

I rebuilt the room for two Super Silos- which crams it full, indeed. All components are modular, so everything was reused, nothing wasted. The odd leftover bits of 1" hose and various fittings will come in handy soon as they fit every system I have, both for tubs and waterfall manifolds.

I'm going to place Mylar on the ceiling and across the bottom of each Super Silo, to see if it helps.

One Super Silo will get both of my digital ballasts and the other one will get magnetic. I can't think of a better side by side comparison setup, since both silos are the same side and shape, running the same nutrients in the same room.


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## Cannabis.Is.Free (Apr 13, 2014)

I would like your opinion on vert vs normal growing.
I'm very open to ideas and new ways to growing things, from DIY Air growing, DIY DWC, DIY everything, I love it. I love being cheap, because it makes me creative. 

Anyway, how do you feel on vert vs hori? 
Do you see any positives?
Do you see any negatives?
Does your yield increase or decrease? 
Anything you would like me to know? 

My next grow, may it be next year or the year after, I'm going with a totally different setup. I wanted to try gravity growing (The pot hangs at the highest point and you force the plant to grow down) or try vert growing. 

Not a huge fan of DWC anymore, requires too much baby sitting.


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## ttystikk (Apr 13, 2014)

Cannabis.Is.Free said:


> I would like your opinion on vert vs normal growing.
> I'm very open to ideas and new ways to growing things, from DIY Air growing, DIY DWC, DIY everything, I love it. I love being cheap, because it makes me creative.
> 
> Anyway, how do you feel on vert vs hori?
> ...


Halfway thru my first vertical experiment, I trashed my whole horizontal op and converted to vertical. Quality that was 'good' to 'very good' in general with occasional examples of 'excellent' has remained about the same mix, but the yield improved. I haven't yet settled on a final vertical design long enough to produce good averages (I'm after the improvements themselves, not just generating datasets) but I'm completely convinced that unless the demands of the plant itself require another approach, vertical is drastically more efficient. Hey, the plants grow UP too, right? LOL

Having said that, keep in mind that vertical can be done well or poorly, just like any other approach. It can be tempting to toss the baby with the bathwater when dealing with the learning curve, but the gains are there.

I'm completely happy with my RDWC system, which is just DWC that flows around with the help of pumps. In my case, I use just one pump in a 'control bucket', it sits immersed at the bottom with the water to water heat exchange coil around it. It's connected to the tubsites with four 1" lines. The pump thus pulls water from the tubsites and feeds a 1" manifold which then services 1/2" elbows fittings in the lid of each tubsite. The water comes out and creates a waterfall inside the tubsite, aerating thewater, splashing up and humidifying the airspace and agitating the water to help pass nutrients into the roots.

That's right, NO AIR PUMP. No lines, fittings or stones, none of it. It's all a waste in a properly designed RDWC system, unless of course you're a hydro store owner who needs to make sales.

Using the cooling coil or having some way to maintain water temperatures below 67f is essential, fully organic/aquaponic systems excepted. Lower water temperatures inhibit anaerobic pathogens by being more oxygenated; remember that water holds MORE oxygen in solution the colder it gets and act accordingly. The dissolved oxygen in your water is going to be the best inhibitor of waterborne problems, far better than any chemical you can add to it.

Finally, though I haven't personally seen or tried it, I'm told by those who say they have that growing weed in 'Topsy Turvy Tomato' containers was a disappointment. For one, discharge water runs down the stalk and through the buds? Yuck!


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## Cannabis.Is.Free (Apr 13, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Halfway thru my first vertical experiment, I trashed my whole horizontal op and converted to vertical. Quality that was 'good' to 'very good' in general with occasional examples of 'excellent' has remained about the same mix, but the yield improved. I haven't yet settled on a final vertical design long enough to produce good averages (I'm after the improvements themselves, not just generating datasets) but I'm completely convinced that unless the demands of the plant itself require another approach, vertical is drastically more efficient. Hey, the plants grow UP too, right? LOL
> 
> Having said that, keep in mind that vertical can be done well or poorly, just like any other approach. It can be tempting to toss the baby with the bathwater when dealing with the learning curve, but the gains are there.
> 
> ...


Wow very well written.

A lot of information to take in, it might take me another read to fully digest it all. 
I'm actually more curious than ever to try a vertical grow, I was more leaning towards gravity growing but now vertical is catching my interest.
I do agree with the water flowing down to the buds, but I'm sure there are easy fixes to this like a drain tray hooked to fit on the bottom of the container and sticks to keep the plant from growing directly beside the pot. 

It seems like you have a very advance setup though. 
RDWC? First time I've heard of it. No pumps? That's new. 
Maybe I should try RDWC with a vert setup, I think I may try vert first so I don't bite off more than I can chew. 
I may stop by to ask a few questions in the next few days, I think I may start to set things up in the other room and give it a try.


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## ttystikk (Apr 13, 2014)

Nothing like getting your feet wet to see how the water suits you, go for it!

ONE pump is still needed to circulate the water around the system, or it wouldn't be recirculating deep water culture.

RDWC = Recirculating Deep Water Culture, or DWC with a pump to pull water through the growing sites. Current Culture's 'Undercurrent' is a crude and expensive version of RDWC. Among other problems, the best site in their whole system for growing in- their 'epicenter'- is the only place they DON'T want you putting a plant!

Gravity growers also complained about the weird structure of the plant as it constantly tried to right itself. Again, this is second hand info, but it came from sources I trust enough not to try it for myself.


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## Cannabis.Is.Free (Apr 13, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Nothing like getting your feet wet to see how the water suits you, go for it!
> 
> ONE pump is still needed to circulate the water around the system, or it wouldn't be recirculating deep water culture.
> 
> ...


I do have a few 5 gal buckets I could drill holes in, doesn't hurt to try when I have the time and space, just need to gain the knowledge which won't be too hard. 
I have a few air pumps already, I would just need to get a water pump.
The problem with DWC that I hate so much is the constant need to monitor PH & PPMs, as well as the water temps. It can be a pain in the arse, especially when you're growing an entire forest. 
I also don't like that everyone says one fuck up in DWC and you won't be forgiven, seems plants die a lot faster in DWC. 

What do you mean by their "Epicenter"? 

Also I don't doubt it, I can see why a plant would fix itself especially if grown in a tent. The light is bouncing off the ceiling thus making the plant grow towards the top than the bottom.
There is also mutation, where the plant may be growing up, but the leaves are forcing themselves to grow under, so you'll have a very weird looking plant. 
Had this happen oddly in a hori grow, my plants were fine growing towards the light, but I had some supplemental lighting facing under the plants (Not a bright idea at the time, considering that never happens in nature) It caused the leaves to do a 180 and point down while the rest of the plant grew up.


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## ttystikk (Apr 13, 2014)

Www.currentculture.com I'll let them explain and shill for their own gear. Take my advice and you'll spend less and get a better system, even if there is some extra time involved in learning the basics and doing the job yourself. FWIW, if the CC guys were interested in improving their system, I'd be a lot more gracious; from all I've seen however, they're out to maximize profit at the expense of quality.

Moving on, temperature is of central concern in RDWC. Solve that problem before committing to the approach, or you'll suffer until you do. If you'd like to talk to knowledgeable water chilling specialists, my friends at www.hydroinnovations.com are among the industry's best- and their customer service is beyond reproach. The advantage in going with a big chiller is lower cooling bills and a waste heat stream that will never smell like a pot plant, meaning that it is ideal for heating a greenhouse or your home. That's free money in addition to the savings in cooling your growing spaces.

The way to minimize dealing with pH and EC is to control temperature well and keep it stable, and run a relatively large volume of water in your RDWC system. Both will minimize the speed of changes, good for both your plants- and your love life, lol


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## Cannabis.Is.Free (Apr 13, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Www.currentculture.com I'll let them explain and shill for their own gear. Take my advice and you'll spend less and get a better system, even if there is some extra time involved in learning the basics and doing the job yourself. FWIW, if the CC guys were interested in improving their system, I'd be a lot more gracious; from all I've seen however, they're out to maximize profit at the expense of quality.
> 
> Moving on, temperature is of central concern in RDWC. Solve that problem before committing to the approach, or you'll suffer until you do. If you'd like to talk to knowledgeable water chilling specialists, my friends at www.hydroinnovations.com are among the industry's best- and their customer service is beyond reproach. The advantage in going with a big chiller is lower cooling bills and a waste heat stream that will never smell like a pot plant, meaning that it is ideal for heating a greenhouse or your home. That's free money in addition to the savings in cooling your growing spaces.
> 
> The way to minimize dealing with pH and EC is to control temperature well and keep it stable, and run a relatively large volume of water in your RDWC system. Both will minimize the speed of changes, good for both your plants- and your love life, lol


You make very good points, and I actually enjoy reading a lot more than just doing stuff and learning by mistakes. 
Took me well over a year to commit to even growing, I had to do a ton of reading and still do till this day. 

I think you made a very good point though, about temperature. Most people don't understand that temperature actually plays a role in PH, & E.C/PPM. 
I actually didn't notice this till I experienced it first hand. 
I was bored one day and decided to check my TDS meters (I have 2-4 at a time, to avoid getting bad numbers) I had several cups, all with different water temperatures and filters. 

The cold water was actually better at maintaining a stable PH & lower/stable PPM. 
The hot water wasn't very stable in PH, and the PPM was a bit higher than the cold water. 
The point is every different water temperature I tested, had different results. 

I'll be checking out those sites in a few, thanks for taking the time to discuss this.


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## ttystikk (Apr 13, 2014)

Yep, that's because both EC and pH are temperature dependent to a degree. Another reason higher water temperature are less pH stable has everything to do with what's growing in it; anaerobic pathogens love to push pH towards extremes because it makes more of the rot they like to eat.

I like the fact that you're willing to play with your instruments to discover things for yourself. That's a great habit, don't let anyone ever tell you different. That goes double for when what they say is different from your measurements!


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## killemsoftly (Apr 14, 2014)

Hey tystik, glad to hear things are ticking along. Got a freebie in my seed purchase: Malberry's Malawi Gold. its specs are pretty awesome: will go to 7 ft, can yield 700gm/m^2, 10-12 week flower. I'm considering running them 12/12 from 4wks after seed splits. 

It sounds ideal for trees. I'm planning on trellissing it, that way if the height becomes an issue I just weave the top into the trellis and let it grow across the ceiling. Really looking forward to it.

How's the new handler working?


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## acutejunglerot (Apr 14, 2014)

i have a space that is 5' x 5' x 8' can this be turned into something vert worthy?!?!?!


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## killemsoftly (Apr 14, 2014)

acutejunglerot said:


> i have a space that is 5' x 5' x 8' can this be turned into something vert worthy?!?!?!


Absolutely. Do 2-4. Depends on the stretch and potential of the plant. Also, veg time is a factor. (10-14 days vs. 2 months: nice vs pita).

You could do a 1000w hps surrounded by the plants with a trellis or fencing to weave the plant into as it grows. Totally doable.


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## acutejunglerot (Apr 14, 2014)

i also have another smaller room right next to it sealed air tight that is 5' x 5' x 4' . i was thinking maybe clones and small veg plants. maybe run a top row and ones on ground level with vertical cool tubes 600watt. veg em for a few weeks and straight onto a shelf!!!


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## acutejunglerot (Apr 14, 2014)

and the seeds i have are a collection of random high grade hydro seeds. could be anything i have collected some from almost every state in the country... lol. the only ones i know are jimmy hendrixs perp and i got those from homeboy...


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## killemsoftly (Apr 14, 2014)

Sure. 
BTW. i spent a lot of time reading and thinking about verting. Try Googlin 'heath robinson'. Guy is a verting legend and a pioneer of rdwc. Also, Al B. Fuct. He's here on riu. Both are non-active with respect to forums but their work is still around. I've archived a lot via 'copy and pasting'. Another knowledegable guy is Uncle Ben: his topping method works great on seeds AND clones (have to shade one side with vapour barrier once the nodes go asymetrical to get 'even' growth). Another good thread here is 'mainlining'. Excellent info. The guy who started that form is very knowledgeable. Also, Snaps Provolone. He selectively posts to help guys with issues and is bang on. Tysttikk is very knowledgeable as well, also he's very proficient with technology. He runs a chiller and uses the excess heat to heat his whole house. Pretty cool eh? Right now he's dialing in his system after converting to vert. I think his supersilo's are a great idea. I may run them in the future but will probably stick to a trellis for now cause I'm lazy. I use pro-mix, use raw salts (very easy, cheap and foolproof) and my girls are booming.

Enthusiasm and experience are great. I guess what i'm saying is: do a lot of homework. It sure helped me and i continue to learn all the time. I love it when i avoid a problem because i read up. 
Good luck acutejunglerot. You could easily pull 4-8 # off that 5x5x8 space. Verting uses the wattage of a bulb much more efficiently than horizontal. Don't take what i say as gospel though. Read the sources i suggested, put in the time and see for yourself.

You could do a lot with those spaces. Best of luck.


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## acutejunglerot (Apr 14, 2014)




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## acutejunglerot (Apr 14, 2014)

thank you!


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## killemsoftly (Apr 14, 2014)

Very nice. Don't forget to 'build' a plan on paper. It makes execution so much easier. Don't leave it lying around though!


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## killemsoftly (Apr 14, 2014)

You're welcome. 
Seriously dude. I did a lot of work to learn what i know. Those sources are gold. Use 'em. Don't rush. Patience in this hobby and life is very important. The best advice i could give you: take your time, read, ponder, plan, execute. Then finesse it. You will thank yourself. You may thank me (not important for me) but all I'm really doing is sharing just like all those guys i pointed you at.


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## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Hey tystik, glad to hear things are ticking along. Got a freebie in my seed purchase: Malberry's Malawi Gold. its specs are pretty awesome: will go to 7 ft, can yield 700gm/m^2, 10-12 week flower. I'm considering running them 12/12 from 4wks after seed splits.
> 
> It sounds ideal for trees. I'm planning on trellissing it, that way if the height becomes an issue I just weave the top into the trellis and let it grow across the ceiling. Really looking forward to it.
> 
> How's the new handler working?


That strain sounds like a monster- perfect for growing up a silo for sure! Seems like a long finish time, tho...

I've had some work to catch up on, still researching what I need to build the air handler I'm thinking about.


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## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2014)

I couldn't have said it better, myself.

FWIW, I've been on this hunt for higher efficiency and better productivity techniques for years now. Nothing worthwhile comes overnight.


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## killemsoftly (Apr 15, 2014)

hey tystikk,
yeah i know seems like a long finish but if figure a yielder like that will be worth it. Besides, maybe i get one on the lower end. the guy who sent me the freebie spoke about that plant with awe. He's been around, seen a lot. I figure if a guy like that uses phrases like "power', 'special' etc when he describes it I'm in. I'll probably only run one or 2. I got a plant count to live with and that's life right? when i first read up on the malawi i went: holy shit! what a beast! The 7ft thing intimidated me. Then i thought hey I can use this to my advantage. I remember you saying that you've found it tough at times to get everything filled in. I figured this african beast would prevent me from running into the same problem. Wanna hear a good one? I started 2 malawi's in wool. Theyseemed to have problems taking off ( i weigh my cubes so i know I'm bang on). so I tried peat pucks (normally don't use them as i find them a pita). The malawis in peat took off. They germed nearly overnight. I'm convinced that happened because it's a landrace from a tropical ecosystem and is adapted to very wet soil in their spring. Now i"m thinking these beasts will love high rh and grow like mad. I bet they will be unphased by mold/mildew and very pest resistant. Can't wait to see what happens.

so you redid your silo into 2 eh? you figure the new configuration is the way to go. Boy i"ll bet you'll be glad when you dial it all in. It's always a process isn't it?

I now understand why a lot of people are so resistant to change. It really does take a lot of energy to bob and weave, problem solve. 

Allthat back to the drawing board stuff can get very tedious. lol


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## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm excited to see how that strain does, seven feet means it might actually fill in a trellis!

I reconfigured several single bulb two panel silos into two Super Silos; two bulbs and four panels each. I did it to solve light distribution and growth pattern issues, and early results are encouraging.

Yes, the constant upgrading is a pain, but the rewards are well worth the effort. I've actually had people criticize me for making too many changes too quickly! I figure that once I have the answer I need, why wait to implement?


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## killemsoftly (Apr 15, 2014)

Yeah it will be something to see. 7 ft beast! wow. 
People always say if it ain't broke don't fix it. Once you know it needs improvement though it is broke and ya gotta do it. In my books anyway. Still it is a pita. I know cause I've had to do it. it;s not like yer taking the engine apart at the side of the road right? i assume yer stackin the lights? hope it works well for you.

peace


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## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Yeah it will be something to see. 7 ft beast! wow.
> People always say if it ain't broke don't fix it. Once you know it needs improvement though it is broke and ya gotta do it. In my books anyway. Still it is a pita. I know cause I've had to do it. it;s not like yer taking the engine apart at the side of the road right? i assume yer stackin the lights? hope it works well for you.
> 
> peace


Yes, Super Silo is 2kW stacked along the centerline of the silo, 30" radius x 75" tall trellis (does not include 16" or so of tuffbox and spacer) so 4 plants each get their own quarter slice of those 2kW of lighting = 500W, and each plant has a full 25 ft² (4' wide x 6.25' tall) to spread out on.

Given enough veg time, even notoriously slow growing indicas like pre '98 Bubba Kush will fill in one of these. 'Enough time' is generally only an extra week over the lankiest stretchiest sativa ever- at least, BEFORE the flip, lol


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## killemsoftly (Apr 15, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Yes, Super Silo is 2kW stacked along the centerline of the silo, 30" radius x 75" tall trellis (does not include 16" or so of tuffbox and spacer) so 4 plants each get their own quarter slice of those 2kW of lighting = 500W, and each plant has a full 25 ft² (4' wide x 6.25' tall) to spread out on.
> 
> Given enough veg time, even notoriously slow growing indicas like pre '98 Bubba Kush will fill in one of these. 'Enough time' is generally only an extra week over the lankiest stretchiest sativa ever- at least, BEFORE the flip, lol


interesting. so are you saying that you've been able to get indicas to fill in the silo with only a few weeks of veg?


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## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2014)

WARNING, OFF TOPIC. READ ONLY IF YOU CARE ABOUT SAVING MONEY ON ELECTRICITY.

This seemed like far too informative a post to just get dumped into the troller's trash bin, so I'm reposting it here;

The comment I responded to was that even if electricity powers the car, something still has to be burned to generate that power.

My response;

No, in fact, all you have to do is generate electricity. This does not necessarily equate to burning something and even when it does, WHAT gets burned and at what level of overall efficiency still matter a great deal.

The short answer is 'fuel cells.' It seems that these are already working their way down the price curve and up in manufacturing scale. Right now, today, instead of paying the usual power bill, it is far more efficient to install one of these on your home and use it as a 'cogeneration' facility; use/sell the power generated- and the heat is a nice FREE bonus you can do all sorts of heretofore impractically expensive things with, like heat a warm water aquaponics tank through a northern winter. Or your garage, outbuildings, barn, greenhouse, doghouse, hot tub, you get the idea.

Yes, for now the fuel cell will run on natural gas, fracked and all, but A. That's much better than coal, B. Far more efficient use of energy because you use more of the BTus and fewer are wasted, C. The power generated makes running your electric car (toaster, Xbox, hot tub, etc) even less expensive than it already is, D. It's YOUR POWER, not subject to rolling blackouts, electrical outages, etc. And it will pay for itself in reduced/eliminated electric and gas bills in just a few years, far faster than solar or wind.

Yes, but it's still using fossil fuel, you say. It need not; they love to use methane from bio sources for instance, and hydrogen is the ideal fuel for them, with no CO² produced at all. The hydrogen itself can be made a variety of ways, again, not all of which need be fossil fuel based.

Electricity is the most efficient and fungible form of energy, and it will become ever more so in the future. Elon Musk may have a vested interest in his opinion, but I think his bet on Tesla is visionary. Electric cars ARE simply better. They are for sure a lot less mechanically complex and therefore potentially more reliable and durable. The battery issue is a big one, but my educated guess is that it too will yield to at least incremental improvement from now on. That sort of incremental improvement will put its efficiency out of reach versus gasoline power, it's only a matter of time.

Finally, those fuel cells emit CO² as a byproduct of electrical cogeneration... anybody think of a use for that? AT HOME?! LOL

Yeah, the future is bright. Grab your shades!


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## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> interesting. so are you saying that you've been able to get indicas to fill in the silo with only a few weeks of veg?


I said I was able to do it with only a few ADDITIONAL weeks in veg, vs a sativa. It needs to fill in a larger percentage of the trellis before flip because of the shorter bloom duration.


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## killemsoftly (Apr 15, 2014)

aahh..i got it. Sorry ty, quite tired today. weather's horrid here. woke up to snow. 

what respective veg times do you use? i guess you veg in situ? how much of a trellis will you fill in before you flip? sorry for a lot of questions, am about flip and have never done a trellis, vert or otherwise.


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## ttystikk (Apr 16, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> aahh..i got it. Sorry ty, quite tired today. weather's horrid here. woke up to snow.
> 
> what respective veg times do you use? i guess you veg in situ? how much of a trellis will you fill in before you flip? sorry for a lot of questions, am about flip and have never done a trellis, vert or otherwise.


I know about that. It did the same here yesterday, today is better already; no snow AND it's not windy!

Standard veg time around here is eight weeks; two weeks apiece in each of four veg stages before they're carried to the silo and espaliered into place. ..which answers your question about being in situ. No, because it's a productivity mistake. Maybe. More on this in a moment.

IME, once an indica gets rolling it can grow very fast in veg, sativa dominant strains don't grow any faster for me in veg. The trick comes AFTER the flip; since all strains spend the same first 40% of bloom stretching, you have to plan ahead accordingly and flip only once the indica has filled in a larger percentage of its trellis. This generally amounts to a week's worth of difference, which is then made up on the back side, due to the aforementioned shorter blooming time. I hope that didn't just sound like circular logic, lol


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## ttystikk (Apr 16, 2014)

Back to the productivity thing; until now, I've built my op around the idea that a bloom room's job is blooming, not vegging, so no veg time in the bloom room.

My trellis panels are big, however, and I just turned them upright so my girls have to grow up and fill in a six foot tall panel. My veg tent is not only not tall enough, but even if it were it would not be able to effectively light the lower branches with overhead fixtures.

To solve this problem, I'm about to go to a hybrid veg system; every stage save the final prebloom veg is still treated the same, although I'm making each zone bigger and adding more light. This time, however, that final prebloom stage is going to move onto the Super Silo trellis.

Advantages include carrying and installing a smaller plant that's less likely to be badly damaged in transit, giving the plant a chance to grow onto the trellis before flip in order to fill it in better, getting light on the lower branches to encourage their productivity... AND, since they'll be in a bloom room already, I can flip anytime in that first couple of weeks in order to schedule the harvest to be right on time, whether the stage is full of 7 week indicas or ten week sativas. This plus upgrades to the earlier veg stages should provide a steady stream of healthy and robust plants, which should fill in the trellis much more reliably. 

Lots of 'shoulds' in there, but they're necessary; if the plants don't respond well early, there is no catching up later. Having multiple discrete (NOT 'discreet'; pet peeve alert!) veg stages gives me lots of chances to see how they're progressing, both in an immediate sense and in relation to batches that have gone before- and how those batches ultimately turned out in terms of health, vigor, yield and quality.


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## killemsoftly (Apr 20, 2014)

Good stuff: bobbing and weaving. It'll be worth it amigo; you'll have 'em dialed in soon.

That politics section is something else eh? Never knew how truly crazy some of the dudes her are. Wow. 'nuff said. Ever notice none of the 'dudettes' are that nuts? Wonder why? 

Anyhoo..hope you are enjoying the holidays. Cheers ty.


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## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Good stuff: bobbing and weaving. It'll be worth it amigo; you'll have 'em dialed in soon.
> 
> That politics section is something else eh? Never knew how truly crazy some of the dudes her are. Wow. 'nuff said. Ever notice none of the 'dudettes' are that nuts? Wonder why?
> 
> Anyhoo..hope you are enjoying the holidays. Cheers ty.


Everyone gets an opinion. I notice how few are willing to let their opinion stand against empirical results...

And that's why I prefer REAL scientific discussions over 'political science.'


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## ttystikk (Apr 22, 2014)

I just showed an out of state visitor my garden, and she burst into tears of joy. The ability to pursue what so many can only dream of doing is a gift I feel privileged to be reminded of anew.


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## killemsoftly (Apr 22, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> I just showed an out of state visitor my garden, and she burst into tears of joy. The ability to pursue what so many can only dream of doing is a gift I feel privileged to be reminded of anew.


It is a thing of beauty. no doubt. I'm chomping at the bit for spring. Another frost warning this week. I'm concerned the apples will get buggered. Again. This happened last year. Sad.

the politcal/economic stuff will probably be never fully analyzable (is that even a word?lol) unless some genius invents some radical new equations. It is still fascinating, in my books, though. I'd hoped to see some interesting discussions but it's very partisan and soon devolves into personal attacks. Too bad.


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## ttystikk (Apr 22, 2014)

The few who really try to work towards political solutions to real world problems are too often drowned out by those with a stake in inflaming the chaos.


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## killemsoftly (Apr 22, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> The few who really try to work towards political solutions to real world problems are too often drowned out by those with a stake in inflaming the chaos.


Bang on: that old divide and conquer ploy. Confusion reigns while profits rise.
Or guys using the forums as a 'dog' to kick.


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## ttystikk (Apr 22, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> Bang on: that old divide and conquer ploy. Confusion reigns while profits rise.
> Or guys using the forums as a 'dog' to kick.


Yeah, Fuck that shit, I don't have time for it.

I got work to do, and a limited time to do it. There will always be naysayers, but talk is cheap. Only action can bring results, and ONLY RESULTS COUNT.


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## killemsoftly (Apr 22, 2014)

I hear the 420 thing in front of the state legislature was quite an event. Have you ever attended ty? 
I think a private, 3 day, 420 event would be awesome. Bands, bbq, broads and bongs. You know, the 4 b's! We could start a 4B Club! Ty for Prez!


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## killemsoftly (Apr 22, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Yeah, Fuck that shit, I don't have time for it.
> 
> I got work to do, and a limited time to do it. There will always be naysayers, but talk is cheap. Only action can bring results, and ONLY RESULTS COUNT.


i hear ya bro. Put up or shut up eh? Sometimes there is only one option: grind away until you reach the finish line. Go get 'em tiger. No prisoners!
Cheers!
P.S. We just got 3 seasons in under 48 hours and several more frost warnings on the way. Haven't seen a spring this tough for farming in a while. Good thing we're indoors!


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## ttystikk (Apr 22, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> I hear the 420 thing in front of the state legislature was quite an event. Have you ever attended ty?
> I think a private, 3 day, 420 event would be awesome. Bands, bbq, broads and bongs. You know, the 4 b's! We could start a 4B Club! Ty for Prez!


I've seen that job, and I don't want it. Besides, I wasn't born on American soil, so I am constitutionally prohibited. I'm a Canuck born to American parents, so I don't have to claim either bunch!

Truth is, I'm an American because I want to be one; I took the oath, I was eighteen so I was old enough to know what I was doing, and it was a conscious decision on my part; even today, I have the option of registering as a Landed Canadian Citizen.

This is not the land of my birth, but it's the land of my heritage. Flawed as it is, it's my country until they ask me to leave. I will fight for it, and for my fellow citizens. FWIW; I volunteered for the US Army at eighteen, they refused me due to eyesight.

As a citizen, I will do it MY WAY. 

I enjoyed 4/20 with plenty of 420 @4:20 (among many other moments) in the company of family and friends. I hope everyone enjoyed their day as much as I did!


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## ttystikk (Apr 22, 2014)

killemsoftly said:


> i hear ya bro. Put up or shut up eh? Sometimes there is only one option: grind away until you reach the finish line. Go get 'em tiger. No prisoners!
> Cheers!
> P.S. We just got 3 seasons in under 48 hours and several more frost warnings on the way. Haven't seen a spring this tough for farming in a while. Good thing we're indoors!


I got nothing but respect for those poor sods outdoors. Yet another reason I'm building a bright future indoors; at least it's Fucking WARM for starters!

I'll grind away until they drag the tools from my worn down fingers and not a minute before.


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## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2014)

Constant trying and failing and trying again is something I'm used to. How does one prepare for success?


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## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2014)

I've been chatting with a buddy who is good at process design and automation.

Having bitten at the automation apple, I've realized that it was a bigger bite than I could swallow by myself.

So far, the schedules I've built on an ad hoc basis are serving as a very good foundation for understanding both process and data.

From here, we can develop a monitoring/control/automaton scheme that accurately records the needed data in real time and uses it to maintain preset parameters, according to a program that could even change through time.

Better operational control and a much more complete picture of what's actually happening to my plants daily and over time is just around the corner!


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## MedScientist (Apr 27, 2014)

Hey ttystickk, speaking of pics.....??? 

Peace


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## ttystikk (Apr 27, 2014)

MedScientist said:


> Hey ttystickk, speaking of pics.....???
> 
> Peace


Your wish is my command, I'll take some freshies tonight of the recently defoliated ladies in the Super Silo.

She's coming along very nicely, indeed...


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## ttystikk (Apr 28, 2014)

I know, the pics suck. I am still trying to figure out how to get shots that convey scale.


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## MedScientist (Apr 29, 2014)

Still shows them for the BEASTS they are! 

So, do You cut the stems at the base and hang the WHOLE SILO at Harvest?

Peace


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## ttystikk (Apr 29, 2014)

MedScientist said:


> Still shows them for the BEASTS they are!
> 
> So, do You cut the stems at the base and hang the WHOLE SILO at Harvest?
> 
> Peace


Lol, that would require me to grow in a warehouse with a garage door opening...

I just cut them down in chunks and cure them that way. This means that the silo never comes apart, and all it needs to get reset is to flush the tubs, refill with nutrient solution and put fresh plants in place.


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## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2014)

Another pic. Ignore the bulb in the foreground, its only purpose is to skew the apparent scale again, lol


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## ttystikk (May 2, 2014)

The nugs are already chunky, frosty and all around nice. I'm almost afraid to think about what they'll look like a couple of weeks from now!


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## ttystikk (May 5, 2014)

Just keep stacking...
Keep on stacking, stacking, stacking...


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## ttystikk (May 11, 2014)

I opened up a seam between two trellis panels and had a look inside. Buds everywhere! It's even kinda dark, the plants are so thick. There's a few open spots where I didn't get complete coverage of the trellis, but it's over 80% easy.

Just couple more days now...


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## ttystikk (May 14, 2014)

The anticipation builds... you think YOU'RE in suspenders, imagine how I feel!


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## ttystikk (May 17, 2014)

Home stretch now, just waiting it out.


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## MedScientist (May 21, 2014)

WooHoo! Please take plenty of pics Before you Harvest, and of course... AFTER! 

Peace


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## ttystikk (May 22, 2014)




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## ttystikk (May 22, 2014)

That's one of four plants on the wall, standing over six feet tall.


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## MedScientist (May 22, 2014)

WooHoo! ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS! 

VERY Nice Job!

Peace


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## 7th1der (May 23, 2014)

thumbs up for this one!


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## ttystikk (May 24, 2014)

Thank you very much! For my next trick, I'll start harvesting Super Silos every other week... from now on.


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## Doer (May 30, 2014)

tystikk said:


> Bad news! My biggest plant got elephant's foot and wilted! She smells plenty good, we'll see how she turns out after drying. At least it will make awesome hash!


Interesting thread. I am having a bit of a time with the concept, but I think I get the idea of screens around the light, plants around the screen.

But I saw that you mention chowmix, and RDWC. I went from RDWC, because of root rot, but kept the individual reservoirs.

I use a rose bucket on top of the reservoir and the roots are protected from rot, in the 50/50 coir and hydroton.

I am assuming that is what you mean by chowmix.


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## ttystikk (May 30, 2014)

Doer said:


> Interesting thread. I am having a bit of a time with the concept, but I think I get the idea of screens around the light, plants around the screen.
> 
> But I saw that you mention chowmix, and RDWC. I went from RDWC, because of root rot, but kept the individual reservoirs.
> 
> ...


I was using 80% hydroton and 20% coco, I've been shaving the coco off more recently.

That plant died because of a root plug, over filling the tub and drowning the plant. No others have met the same fate, since a redesign to ensure every tub has at least two separate drains.

The mesh is a vertical tube with lighting down the centerline. The plants are attached to the outside (after veg elsewhere) and trained into place, their budding sites encouraged to go through the mesh and grow in the direct light.

It isn't perfect- nothing is- but it solves the problems of space and growth better than flatland grows.


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## Doer (May 30, 2014)

Got it. Good stuff. Fail safe drains. I just put in a fog tub. We have very low humidity.

Do I need a failsafe drain on an auto-refilling fog tub? Apparently so. It already saved me once so far.


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## ttystikk (May 30, 2014)

Doer said:


> Got it. Good stuff. Fail safe drains. I just put in a fog tub. We have very low humidity.
> 
> Do I need a failsafe drain on an auto-refilling fog tub? Apparently so. It already saved me once so far.


All of my 27 gallon tuffboxes have four 1" bulkhead fittings. I now make sure they don't all go to the same hose...


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## ttystikk (May 31, 2014)

Resetting and rebuilding, to incorporate lessons learned; the design now minimizes elbows and emphasizes straight through connections.

Every Super Silo has one big fan blowing upwards from the bottom, to force air circulation, heat removal and refresh CO².

My air handlers draw the warmest air from near the ceiling and shove it down through the Icebox exchangers and then continue down towards the floor. Under the pipe is my control bucket, so condensate returns to the RDWC automatically. Details.

The Iceboxes are totally inadequate to the task of climate control by themselves, they can deal with temps but not humidity- They're simply too small to handle my setup, not their fault.

The next step is installing a scrapyard find, a big water to air exchanger that's over fifteen by eighteen inches. I'm thinking this kind of surface area will achieve a higher rate of total condensation, thus keeping up with plant transpiration better.


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## dankdope (Jun 6, 2014)

Hi ttystikk
ive been following your thread and the other vert ones too (that get updated regular) and I must say you guys have some awesome setups and im going to give vert a go once my room comes down in a couple of months, unfortunately I completely suck at any form of hydro so just gunna play it safe and stick with soil.

keep up the good work, love the pics of your bud wall silos!!!


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## ttystikk (Jun 6, 2014)

dankdope said:


> Hi ttystikk
> ive been following your thread and the other vert ones too (that get updated regular) and I must say you guys have some awesome setups and im going to give vert a go once my room comes down in a couple of months, unfortunately I completely suck at any form of hydro so just gunna play it safe and stick with soil.
> 
> keep up the good work, love the pics of your bud wall silos!!!


Thanks for the kind words! 

Vertical works with soil just fine, my guess is that you'll want to get bigger pots and water more than with a normal flat canopy setup.

There's a wealth of great info here, so when the time comes to get specific about your intentions, let us know- in detail- and we can steer you past at least some of the pitfalls.


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## sdf (Jun 6, 2014)

Very nice. I will be back...


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## ttystikk (Jun 10, 2014)

Veg is a key to this. I'm still experimenting with how to do the veg so the plants don't freak out when they hit the Super Silo.


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## only1realhigh (Jun 10, 2014)

vertical or horizontal SCROG method has a huge learning curve. I spent years horizontal before I did my vertical setup. The key was the timing of when to flip into floral stage so that the rest of the vertical screen will fill in. Knowing your strain helps a lot and that is why I stayed with what I liked to smoke.
My system uses only 3 plants equally spaced out around the cylinder screen. 2 ft. high 6ft long= 12 sq ft of growing area. If I only occupy a 3ft sq area for the system , that is 9sq feet of horizontal area for the three plants. More room does mean a bit more vegy time, but with DWC method things grow a bit faster it seems, at least I think so.
I also pulled back all the leaf I could keeping it on the outside as much as possible. Figured the more buds exposed to the light the better they could grow. Not every branch stayed on the plant, nor leaf or bud site, again one has to look at what is going to help all other produce best, and I do away with the rest.
I used a 400hps inside a pyrex tube, still some heat issues, so I built this LED tower for the light source and soon I hope to see how well it performs for me, but I am just growing for my medicine and only care about keeping myself with meds.


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## ttystikk (Jun 13, 2014)

@only1realhigh , I enjoy your input, it is quite a learning curve.

If love to see a few pics of your setup- especially that octagonal LED fixture you built!


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## only1realhigh (Jun 15, 2014)

see if I can get a pic
  
Okay this is my way/ system that I built. A personal 2ft tall screen that is 6ft long wrapped around a steel rod frame I made that uses 3 plants. Originally I used a 400watt HPS to light it up, now I am going to use this LED tower.


The key of this is I vegy the plants in this system. Once they get the lower foot of screen covered I flip to 12/12 for flowering. The second photo shows the system right before I flip them. I used the strectch and slower growth to finish filling the upper half of the screen. Again timing is everything in SCROG method weather it is vertical or horizontal.
Now this LED tower has both a vegy spectrum (set at lower end of tower ) and the floral spectrum which is spread out over the length of the tower. 2 ft tall heat sink to fit the 2ft tall screen. All LED's are dimmable and can be independently turned off to help me provide the needed spectrum for the different stages of growth, plus I get to play with the intensity of it all.
My whole point is you can get much better coverage on the screen if you vegy the plants up and around the screen from the start. You also get to remove out side edge as it grows removing plant shock.
One other key is that after all is grown and floral stage is getting under way, I remove leaf, more than many think of, but I want the bud sites to get all the light they can. I grow bud and not leaf.


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## ttystikk (Jun 15, 2014)

That's fuckin' righteous! I'm very impressed by the level of detail, stuff like only putting veg spectrum LED sources in the bottom half of the unit, since you knew that by the time the plant grows up near the too, it's always in bloom anyway.

Your insights about vegging the plants on the trellis mirror mine, as well. I've rearranged my entire process to include a couple weeks of prebloom veg time on the trellis.


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## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2014)

I'm not happy about my veg, so I've been doing some rearranging. Making the spaces bigger and giving the girls more watts. The goal is to have healthy ladies big enough to fill the trellis in fully by the end of stretch. Right now, my veg suffers a bit due to being overcrowded. This helps them grow taller but it starves the lower branches of light and that hurts yield.


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## only1realhigh (Jun 18, 2014)

ttystikk, if you are not worried about plant count or have room, let some plants get taller for the upper end of the screen/trellis area. Remove them lower branch's you know you will not use. Bring in younger smaller vegy'ed plants for the lower end of the trellis/screen. Now you give a week or so vegy time to get all trained and flip with the pre expactations of their stretch when you flip to 12/12 light schedule. 
If you want, some would feed a 50/50 mix of vegy/bloom during that first week giving the plants more stretch. I know I would just keep on the vegy feeding cycle the first week when doing horizontal screen with indica's to fill in more, at the same time cleaning all material off the plant below the screen. Drop an hour of light, and nail them with bloom nutrients, yet another way was slowly drop an hour of light from 18 hours as you train that week of vegy feed, switch mix and light schedule when you can anticipate the stretch to fill in the screen.
I used to monitor my daily growth rate to aid me in figuring out when to flip into floral and have a full screen. If I got more than I wanted, just trimmed it back so I only had what the screen could handle. 
Remember: many bud sites is not always the answer as more selective bud sites for good bud growth. I found topping a plant at 18 inchs, leaving only 4 selected branchs on the stem, flipping them after a week recovery, double this strains yield for me. The key was I had 4 nice huge colas to trim up, not 200 plus little ones that took days.
I strongly believe knowing your strain and growing it constantly allows one to learn it, predict it, and you can improve your method, feeding schedule, and the overall yield from each grow as you learn more. How did I remember it all from one grow to another, well I kept grow journals on my computer (not the smartest thing) but I did it that way.


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## ttystikk (Jun 18, 2014)

You're one of several people who have suggested I top the main stem. I used to do this when I ran an early ScrOG style on a horizontal canopy, but intentionally stopped when I confronted the challenge of growing six foot tall plants.

I should play with it again, see what happens...


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## only1realhigh (Jun 19, 2014)

If you can, maybe do one plant growing tall, clean up lower end, move in the younger plant and top it, train those branch's to feel in that lower area.
Kinda stage them up the vertical screen. If it works well than you can do them all that way the next run.
All I know is when I do it (top the plants main stem ) the remaining branch's I leave become main cola's that produce even better than I thought. Just think of say a the open space on the lower end of the screen, say it is 18" tall, now a 24" tall plant with the upper 6" taken off, than take a selected branch trained to the left and to the right to fill in the area. Meanwhile the taller upper plant keeps growing taller and gets trained.
If you ever want to limit the stretch of the plant, crush,pinch, the main stem or long the branch area as every thing below the pinched area grows more as the damage area heals. You can manipulate this plant in so many ways it is just up to the grower and what they want to achieve. Grow on anyway you choose, but you can always try a few suggestions to see if they work for you.


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## ttystikk (Jun 19, 2014)

All of the techniques you suggest are old hat to me, at least in other arrangements.

The decision not to top the main stem of these plants was intentional, and it's resulting in scads of little buds plus a few big ones. Spending lots of time trimming larf helps, but they're a bear just owing to the size of the trellis; 25 ft² is a lot of plant!

I've done this technique before, in horizontal canopies- in fact, is the best way I know of to make a horizontal canopy that works well... which is why I didn't use it when I went vertical!


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## ttystikk (Jun 20, 2014)

Which goes to show, sometimes the more things change... definitely going to play with this a bit. My veg has been slipping of late.


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## TexasHank (Jun 23, 2014)

only1realhigh said:


> ttystikk, if you are not worried about plant count or have room, let some plants get taller for the upper end of the screen/trellis area. Remove them lower branch's you know you will not use. Bring in younger smaller vegy'ed plants for the lower end of the trellis/screen. Now you give a week or so vegy time to get all trained and flip with the pre expactations of their stretch when you flip to 12/12 light schedule.
> If you want, some would feed a 50/50 mix of vegy/bloom during that first week giving the plants more stretch*. I know I would just keep on the vegy feeding cycle the first week when doing horizontal screen with indica's to fill in more*, at the same time cleaning all material off the plant below the screen. Drop an hour of light, and nail them with bloom nutrients, yet another way was slowly drop an hour of light from 18 hours as you train that week of vegy feed, switch mix and light schedule when you can anticipate the stretch to fill in the screen.
> I used to monitor my daily growth rate to aid me in figuring out when to flip into floral and have a full screen. If I got more than I wanted, just trimmed it back so I only had what the screen could handle.
> Remember: many bud sites is not always the answer as more selective bud sites for good bud growth. I found topping a plant at 18 inchs, leaving only 4 selected branchs on the stem, flipping them after a week recovery, double this strains yield for me. The key was I had 4 nice huge colas to trim up, not 200 plus little ones that took days.
> I strongly believe knowing your strain and growing it constantly allows one to learn it, predict it, and you can improve your method, feeding schedule, and the overall yield from each grow as you learn more. How did I remember it all from one grow to another, well I kept grow journals on my computer (not the smartest thing) but I did it that way.


Actually.. Veg nutes (higher in N) will grow more compact, bushy plants.. It is bloom nutes (High in P) that will make your plants stretch more.


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## Sebastien Blades (Jun 23, 2014)

Nothing like a wall of weed. good job bro.


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## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2014)

Recent update; the recent conversation about topped plants kept me thinking about it- and I happened across one that has been indeed topped to have several meristems instead of one main shoot.

Damn if it didn't produce a bunch of very thick and chunky buds, lending apparent support to the recent posters suggestions. 

I'm definitely going to continue playing with this as a part of an ongoing process of improving every aspect of the op, from equipment to nutes to systems to husbandry.


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## only1realhigh (Jun 25, 2014)

This is just some things I learned and did over the past years, nothing of it is new really. The only thing I found myself doing a bit that others did not was I would remove bud sites. I did a horizontal scrog grow once with over 250 bud sites, all over the screen in a 2' x 3' area, man did I get a lot of small buds to trim.
Later once I topped and limited my branch to a set amount I did this to see what would happen. I counted down from the top bud site, any thing below the tenth bud site I removed from the branch. I was growing StarGazer strain and I went from an ounce a branch to 2 ounces a branch. Again I let the plant grow to 24" took off the top 6" when I topped it, removed lower branch's and left only 4 selected ones, only left 10 upper bud sites on the branch's, and it all paid off. Yes I did this many times to prove it was working time after time. Not saying all strains will react the same way, but the idea is I was only leaving what was getting good light on the plant and removing the others allowing the plant growth energy to be concentrated to those bud sites that where left on the plant.
Another thing I always caught crap about is I removed leafage a lot, learned to do it slow and easy was far better than doing a lot at once, but I wanted to grow bud and not leaf. One other key is I loved hydro, DWC, flood & drain, drip feed, low level constant flow, even with coco in container's I still use hydro food on watered by hand or drip lines.


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## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2014)

Nothing new under the sun- just indoors we ARE the sun, and so we have the opportunity to make the most of it.

I'm finding there are many more similarities than differences when it comes to training and trimming vertical vs horizontal ScrOG setups.


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## ttystikk (Jun 27, 2014)

Ho hum, chugging away, nothing new except a rearranging of my last veg stage before the trellis. I'm making it bigger and adding more light, in the form of 600W HPS lamps overhead. This should work to enhance stretching behavior, which is actually what I want. It can fill in once it's on the trellis itself, in the next stage.


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## schuylaar (Jun 30, 2014)

i'm moving into 1000sq ft from 1800. subbed.


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## ttystikk (Jun 30, 2014)

schuylaar said:


> i'm moving into 1000sq ft from 1800. subbed.


So you're downsizing by nearly half, then? I'm interested!


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## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2014)

I just installed new Philips CDM 860W lamps- 1/3 of the whole shipment of a dozen bulbs was bad; either the quartz inner sleeve was broken or the bulb shattered on initial startup.

I'm hoping he's as good as his eBay rating says he is. Shit happens, I'm not pissed, in fact I like the light from those that are running now enough that I want more bulbs!

I have head to head Super Silos with different bulbs going in two different bloom rooms, so we WILL get the answer as to whether this is a real step up from HPS or not.


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## lickalotapus (Jul 10, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> I just installed new Philips CDM 860W lamps- 1/3 of the whole shipment of a dozen bulbs was bad; either the quartz inner sleeve was broken or the bulb shattered on initial startup.
> 
> I'm hoping he's as good as his eBay rating says he is. Shit happens, I'm not pissed, in fact I like the light from those that are running now enough that I want more bulbs!
> 
> I have head to head Super Silos with different bulbs going in two different bloom rooms, so we WILL get the answer as to whether this is a real step up from HPS or not.


I just yous what ever bulbs I have , some times I can grab a 600w hps or two from work , 
Is there much difference in results between brands?


Obviusly if it uses 600w of power then it will put out 600w of energy. Most of that being different spectrums of light waves and some being heat . 
So what does a better bulb do that a cheapie or poorly made bulb doesnt ?


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## ttystikk (Jul 10, 2014)

lickalotapus said:


> I just yous what ever bulbs I have , some times I can grab a 600w hps or two from work ,
> Is there much difference in results between brands?
> 
> 
> ...


The answer boils down to spectrum. HPS isn't a very good light for growing plants with, but because there's so much light output, the plant gets what it needs. Most of the light is wasted, because it's the wrong wavelength.

The CDM bulbs I just installed don't put out quite as much total light as HPS- about 85%- but the wavelengths emitted are much more likely to be those the plant can use. Less power, yet better plant response.


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## a senile fungus (Jul 10, 2014)

@ttystikk i sent you a pm


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## lickalotapus (Jul 12, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> The answer boils down to spectrum. HPS isn't a very good light for growing plants with, but because there's so much light output, the plant gets what it needs. Most of the light is wasted, because it's the wrong wavelength.
> 
> The CDM bulbs I just installed don't put out quite as much total light as HPS- about 85%- but the wavelengths emitted are much more likely to be those the plant can use. Less power, yet better plant response.


Sounds interesting .id love to hear how they perform


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## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2014)

lickalotapus said:


> Sounds interesting .id love to hear how they perform


So far every indication is that plants prefer their light to HPS, hands down. We are in this game for quality and yield however, so until I can provide something more concrete everything is just a guess.

I like the new lights better; it's a far more natural color and does an excellent job of showing the plants off. It's easier to spot deficiencies, damage and disease.


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## Red1966 (Jul 13, 2014)

Don't those require a magnetic ballast? All I have are electronic.


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## ttystikk (Jul 13, 2014)

Red1966 said:


> Don't those require a magnetic ballast? All I have are electronic.


LOL that's right- the cheapie old school magnetic ballasts are suddenly a hot commodity again! Who knew?


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## ODanksta (Jul 17, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> LOL that's right- the cheapie old school magnetic ballasts are suddenly a hot commodity again! Who knew?


I still have every magnetic ballast ive every own. I have thrown away about 10 digital ballast. Idk the 600 in my bath tub is digital and it seems to be more red.. i use the same solar max bulbs in all of them


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2014)

ODanksta said:


> I still have every magnetic ballast ive every own. I have thrown away about 10 digital ballast. Idk the 600 in my bath tub is digital and it seems to be more red.. i use the same solar max bulbs in all of them


I'd recommend Plantmax for budget HPS bulbs. I'm hoping for great things from my CDM experiment, but I'm not going to jump the gun and recommend them just yet.


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## ODanksta (Jul 17, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> I'd recommend Plantmax for budget HPS bulbs. I'm hoping for great things from my CDM experiment, but I'm not going to jump the gun and recommend them just yet.


My brother was using those a while back, his comment was way more frost, less yield. I do like the white light that comes from the CDM, more then the red from a regular bulb it seems less stress on your eyes when working in the room..


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## Sativied (Jul 17, 2014)

ODanksta said:


> more then the red from a regular bulb it seems less stress on your eyes when working in the room..


Sounds like you could use one of those HPS glasses.


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## ODanksta (Jul 17, 2014)

Damn especially the hydro shop i was recently running, we had atleast 12k of lights in displays. I could barely see when i driving home at night. Lol i wonder if it is even safe sleeping in a house 10k + in magnetic ballast. Just from the all that electricity. My house has this constant buzzing noise.. sometimes i wonder if its frying my brain


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## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2014)

Sativied said:


> Sounds like you could use one of those HPS glasses.


I have some, but they aren't sunglasses- so they still gave me eyestrain.


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## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2014)

ODanksta said:


> Damn especially the hydro shop i was recently running, we had atleast 12k of lights in displays. I could barely see when i driving home at night. Lol i wonder if it is even safe sleeping in a house 10k + in magnetic ballast. Just from the all that electricity. My house has this constant buzzing noise.. sometimes i wonder if its frying my brain


Magnetic ballasts don't put out the weird RF interference digis can, especially the cheap Chinese ones.

I have some three or four digital ballasts, I'll run new Plantmax HPS thouies on them in one room as a control vs. the CDM lamps.


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## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2014)

ODanksta said:


> My brother was using those a while back, his comment was way more frost, less yield. I do like the white light that comes from the CDM, more then the red from a regular bulb it seems less stress on your eyes when working in the room..


My vertical trellis rig keeps more of the canopy in the Goldilocks zone of optimum distance and lighting, this may have an effect on the yield- and it may not. Time will tell!


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## Sativied (Jul 18, 2014)

@ODanksta: does your brother have more specific numbers? You said way more frost and since that's a large part of the eventual dry weight, the wet weight had to be much lower. 

Perhaps a BHO run for both bulbs will show different results and it may be at least a good bulb for resin production.


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## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2014)

Sativied said:


> @ODanksta: does your brother have more specific numbers? You said way more frost and since that's a large part of the eventual dry weight, the wet weight had to be much lower.
> 
> Perhaps a BHO run for both bulbs will show different results and it may be at least a good bulb for resin production.


That's just what I was thinking. The whole point of the exercise is resin production, right?


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## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2014)

ODanksta said:


> Damn especially the hydro shop i was recently running, we had atleast 12k of lights in displays. I could barely see when i driving home at night. Lol i wonder if it is even safe sleeping in a house 10k + in magnetic ballast. Just from the all that electricity. My house has this constant buzzing noise.. sometimes i wonder if its frying my brain


It's well known that humans need time for their eyes to adjust from light to darkness and back. I can imagine that attempting to rush this process might at least be uncomfortable. I'm curious if it can lead to problems.


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## ttystikk (Jul 21, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> It's well known that humans need time for their eyes to adjust from light to darkness and back. I can imagine that attempting to rush this process might at least be uncomfortable. I'm curious if it can lead to problems.


...and by way of anecdote, I'm on my way to an emergency eye appointment for ANOTHER detached retina. Coincidence?

The CIA is attributed as the source of this saying; once is an anomaly, twice is a coincidence- and three times is enemy action.


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## ttystikk (Jul 21, 2014)

I had a long talk with the doc about the lighting conditions we encounter, including going from very dark to very bright settings in short periods of time. She was clear that our biggest risks as growers are;

1. Foreign objects/chemical overspray, even resin in the eyes

2. Long term damage due to UV exposure

To fix #1, wear safety glasses
To fix #2, make them good shades


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## ttystikk (Jul 21, 2014)

To oversimplify, I did very well getting in early. Preventative work done last summer seems to be doing its job. Prognosis is good that I won't have any long term issues in the new eye. Vision in my right eye, the one that did have the detached retina, is deteriorating and I'll need cataract surgery soon- but other than that, it's healthy and therefore well worth the effort to improve my vision. They scheduled one more observation appt for a couple of weeks out, just to make damn sure.

I like the sound of making damn sure.


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## ttystikk (Jul 24, 2014)

Tending to problems and getting things organized is the order of the day around here. 

I'm moving my ballasts so that I have all my digitals in one room, to run the head to head HPS vs CDM.

Nutrient changeouts, the usual.


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## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2014)

Update on how the CDM experiment is going; the plants love it. They display strong phototropism, vigorous growth and great color.

It's going to be awhile before I have meaningful weight numbers, but I'm liking how chunky and thick and frosty the buds are!


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## ttystikk (Aug 7, 2014)

Some harvest time pics;
Magic Merlin left, another right
 

Same plants, panning right
 

Magic Merlin left, Purple Jones right
 

Hillbilly Hobby
 

CDM FTW


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## ttystikk (Aug 7, 2014)

@SnapsProvolone I was wondering if you could help me figure out a persistent excess RH issue. Someone mentioned that you knew a bit about environmental controls and equipment... and any ideas would be most helpful!


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 7, 2014)

Sealed CO2 or ventilated?

What exactly seems to be the problem? High rh all the time?


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## ttystikk (Aug 7, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Sealed CO2 or ventilated?
> 
> What exactly seems to be the problem? High rh all the time?


I'd run it sealed and supplement by CO² tank as designed if I could keep the RH down. As it is, I'm forced to all but constantly ventilate to keep RH below 75%... and yes, I live in Colorado.

I run a fully water chilled room, where 8" Icebox brand water to air heat exchangers are the main vector of heat out of the room. These also perform dehuey functions. When the room is dry- empty- the system has trouble maintaining temperature with all the lights on, but humidity is low.

When the room is full of plants temps become manageable but RH climbs into the 80s, forcing me to ventilate.

I suspect my air handler surface area is inadequate, and I'm wondering what my options are.


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 7, 2014)

What is the temperature of your air handler coil? Room temp?


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 7, 2014)

How many cfm are you blowing through the air handler. How many watts you running? Room volume?


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## ttystikk (Aug 7, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> What is the temperature of your air handler coil? Room temp?


Chiller maintains water in circulation at about 62-65f.

Room temp target is 80, 85 w/ CO². RH target is high sixties until peak bloom, then taper down to the forties at chop.

Currently, empty room runs at 86 to 87 and dry- and full room runs at 75-85% RH and on temp.


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 7, 2014)

You need to get that core down into the low to mid 50's or add significant additional core area. Your cold water any cooler than the core, perhaps increased flow rates?


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> How many cfm are you blowing through the air handler. How many watts you running? Room volume?


Since each air handler is 8" in diameter, I use industry standard fans to blow through them. The biggest are Maxfans, pushing 675cfm.

Room is running 4kW. Volume is 1000cf.


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> You need to get that core down into the low to mid 50's or add significant additional core area. Your cold water any cooler than the core, perhaps increased flow rates?


I run a half horse circulation pump so I'm reasonably sure my flow rates and thus heat evacuation rates are good.

Agreed on small surface area; 8" dia = 50in² and that's about pathetic! I do run two in the room, but it's kinda like two straws instead of one...

I'm extremely reluctant to significantly reduce chiller circuit water temps, for various efficiency and system simplicity/robustness reasons.

Guess that leaves a bigger core as the last option standing, doesn't it?


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 8, 2014)

Asking that system to do over 14kbtu/hr is pushing it unless you can get those cores chillier than mid 60's. Dehu rates will jump up if we can knock that core temp down another 10 degrees.


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Asking that system to do over 14kbtu/hr is pushing it unless you can get those cores chillier than mid 60's. Dehu rates will jump up if we can knock that core temp down another 10 degrees.


Understood, events are underlining your words; the thing seems to be on the ragged edge all of the time. 

The chiller itself is a 24k BTu ChillKing window mount unit. It chills the water that cools and dehueys room air and chills the RDWC in it.

How much more surface area would be required if the core temp had to stay in the low sixties? What if I passed the air through the heat exchange core twice?


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 8, 2014)

Simply put, your system isn't 24kbtu IF your restraint is ideal reservoir temps.

PERHAPS, send 55 degree water through the air exchanger to warm the water prior to it hitting the reservoir exchanger?

Even more tuned, a bypass solenoid valve / cooling thermostat with remote probe arrangement to bypass the reservoir when it's cool enough.


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Simply put, your system isn't 24kbtu IF your restraint is ideal reservoir temps.
> 
> PERHAPS, send 55 degree water through the air exchanger to warm the water prior to it hitting the reservoir exchanger?
> 
> Even more tuned, a bypass solenoid valve / cooling thermostat with remote probe arrangement to bypass the reservoir when it's cool enough.


Last first; Hydro Innovations sells just such a solenoid controlled water temperature management kit, so I've looked carefully at the application. 

I'm not sure I fully agree with your suggestion that I'm not running at 24k BTu; the chiller runs most of the time as it should, and none of the rooms goes completely off the reservation. AT THE AIR HANDLERS in the rooms themselves, on the other hand, I definitely agree with your assessment that these aren't moving the necessary BTu.

Here's why I'm so reluctant to reduce chiller circuit temperature; without a solenoid, water temps in the cooling circuit and the RDWC trend towards one another at a steady rate of one degree f every few hours. For 125 gallon reservoirs, I find that reasonable, since they never warm up by more than a degree or two during normal daytime operation. At night they cool again, etc, etc.

During the summer, daytime heat loads rise dramatically- at the very same time AC compressors have the hardest time shedding heat! So why don't MY afternoon temps skyrocket, especially conducting my system runs with little or no overhead capacity?

What I discovered was that the chilling system actually uses the thermal mass in my RDWC to maintain room temperatures during the hot part of the day; those cold coils warm up past the temperature of the RDWC- and start drawing cold from the 'bank' all afternoon, until temperatures outside fall enough for the chiller to catch up again.

At two Tons, I think my chiller is being assisted during the day so that the system as a whole temporarily operates beyond the chiller's rated cooling capacity. This is an advantage I'd lose with solenoid controlled RDWC chilling- and there's no way I'm replacing several hundred gallons of thermal mass easily.

It's this phenomena that I'd like to preserve if at all possible- because it's effective even with a large overcapacity in HVAC, in cases where some cooling capacity might be offline, or just not needing to buy as much capacity as might otherwise be needed.

This is why I'm investigating the use of larger condenser cores at the moment. I'm even considering a dual pass approach, shoving warm room air through a squirrelcage blower and through one half of a big core- and then right back through the other half. The idea is to wring as much moisture out of the air as possible by presenting the core twice.

Finally, the higher the temperature in the cooling circuit, the less incidental heat it will gain through lines and reservoir walls. This translates into significant energy savings over time, as well as reduced installation costs due to a smaller temperature delta.


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 8, 2014)

To dehu really well, try dropping those core remps.  I've given you all I got.


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 8, 2014)

Another thought on the dehumidification. You may be blowing too much air through the core. A nice slow fan speed is better suited to dehumidification. Fast moving air tends to gather moisture droplets off the coil, thus you may be misting a portion of your condensate back into the air as fast as your condensing it.

Of course slowing your fan probably won't help temperature issues.


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Another thought on the dehumidification. You may be blowing too much air through the core. A nice slow fan speed is better suited to dehumidification. Fast moving air tends to gather moisture droplets off the coil, thus you may be misting a portion of your condensate back into the air as fast as your condensing it.
> 
> Of course slowing your fan probably won't help temperature issues.


This is a good point- and an even better visual- 'blowing mist off the core'.

What do you think of a drastic increase in core surface area?


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 8, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> This is a good point- and an even better visual- 'blowing mist off the core'.
> 
> What do you think of a drastic increase in core surface area?


Give it a go, but my path would likely be one of reduced chiller setting.


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Give it a go, but my path would likely be one of reduced chiller setting.


Right. I do understand that I'm cutting against the 'generally accepted best practice' grain here. I've outlined what I think are tangible, cost reducing benefits- about which, by the way, what do you think? Are the benefits real and are they worth the cost of installing a larger capacity air handler with a much larger core?

I'm not asking for someone to do the math and hand me the answer here- I have a big junkyard heat exchanger, 12"x17", I want to try it.

Stay tuned, I'm taking everyone's bets about what it does!


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## SnapsProvolone (Aug 8, 2014)

Give it a shot. Since you have the gear nothing ventured nothing gained.


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## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Give it a shot. Since you have the gear nothing ventured nothing gained.


I'm taking careful aim...


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## perdidobandito (Aug 9, 2014)

YALL MUTHAFUCKAS NEED JESUS


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## ttystikk (Aug 11, 2014)

Cracking off a few over the head of the offending (not really, but he makes a great target!) Troll...


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## ttystikk (Aug 12, 2014)

Shit grows. Shit grows up. Update complete.


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## a senile fungus (Aug 16, 2014)

Is that just the one 860w?

Its got be from the spectrum, but is it one per trellis?


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## ttystikk (Aug 17, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> Is that just the one 860w?
> 
> Its got be from the spectrum, but is it one per trellis?


There's two in there, one near the top and the other near the bottom.


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## ttystikk (Aug 17, 2014)

Having some strange nutrient issues, thinking EC might be a bit high in veg yet.


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## JointOperation (Aug 23, 2014)

in a vertical grow.. right.. I have 5 plants I didn't have a chance to put outside.. there big guys. .I was thinking my friend has a small area in his house I can use till my new house is ready.. do u think I could put those 5 in a circle around a 1000w vertical.. and then put 30 plants in 1 gallon grow bags.. on the ground.. and do a vertical grow.. and SOG underneath ? the plants I want to do a SOG with .. do well under very low light conditions.. so im thinkin if it don't turn out great. I can just turn into bho..

but im thinking u can proly get a decent grow doing it like .. or should I just toss those 5 outside .. and if they don't finish they don't finish. and just do a SOG.?


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## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2014)

Give it a shot- just remember to train the big plants around the outside so they face the light. Nothing on the dark sides will grow, so chop that shit out completely and force the plant to put all the work into the side facing the light. Fat buds are inevitable.

Height and distance is gonna be critical; be sure you have at least 30" from bulb to plants at the beginning and let them grow in from there.

Make sure the vertical plants are directly adjacent to the bulb, not way above or below. This may mean raising them up so there's room underneath for your SOG. Speaking of, keep it low n wide and you will have grown weed on five sides of a cube...

THAT'S how you roll, bro! BOXCARS!


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## Merlin34 (Aug 23, 2014)

And... Hang some of those upside down planters from the roof and you got all six sides...

Sent from Northern Colorado.


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## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2014)

Merlin34 said:


> And... Hang some of those upside down planters from the roof and you got all six sides...
> 
> Sent from Northern Colorado.


You know I have a bunch of those Topsy Turvy Spice planters in the Garage of Wonders, right?

Someone else can try it. I'm just not going to try to grow on the flippin' ceiling, lol

Unless I find my Velcro soled boots...


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## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2014)

Awwwww shit... Someone got me thinking, again. Y'all should know better by now!


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## JointOperation (Aug 25, 2014)

I tried the topsy turveys indoors.. it was ehhh. if I could redo my room..and put in a bunch of ceiling support beams so that the weight of the soil from the plants hanging from the ceiling were supported properly it would of been ok.. but I tried 1.. it did ok.. but the thing grew straight up anyways.. just did a U turn.. lol... it was ok. but not great. but.. I had a friend try it outdoors.. he hung them on tree branches.. and got a QP per plant.. hidden in trees.. but he had to do a lot of tree pruning to get them to have enough light.. to grow good.


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## ODanksta (Aug 25, 2014)

Sativied said:


> @ODanksta: does your brother have more specific numbers? You said way more frost and since that's a large part of the eventual dry weight, the wet weight had to be much lower.
> 
> Perhaps a BHO run for both bulbs will show different results and it may be at least a good bulb for resin production.


I need to correct myself, he was using 4k ceramic halide (retro whites) conversion bulbs. Yes the yield is a smaller, but the nugs are more dense and frostier. Im really not sure about how much less it yielded but i can tell you that a BHO run with the bulbs would be epic!


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## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2014)

JointOperation said:


> I tried the topsy turveys indoors.. it was ehhh. if I could redo my room..and put in a bunch of ceiling support beams so that the weight of the soil from the plants hanging from the ceiling were supported properly it would of been ok.. but I tried 1.. it did ok.. but the thing grew straight up anyways.. just did a U turn.. lol... it was ok. but not great. but.. I had a friend try it outdoors.. he hung them on tree branches.. and got a QP per plant.. hidden in trees.. but he had to do a lot of tree pruning to get them to have enough light.. to grow good.


It's like anything else, you have to put in the time to gain the skills. Each vertical grow keeps getting better, I don't know where the upper limit is.


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## ODanksta (Aug 26, 2014)

Merlin34 said:


> And... Hang some of those upside down planters from the roof and you got all six sides...
> 
> Sent from Northern Colorado.


Ive tried that, no bullshit, the problem is they drip way to much. And they kinda suck at that i hung a bunch at the hydro shop i use to run and they never really worked good at all maybe with tomatoes but that's about it. I tried peppers and they didn't work.

Just my two cents


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## JointOperation (Aug 27, 2014)

ya man tysticks.. I wana go fully vert.. but im afraid if I fuck up.. ill be fucking lost.. the thing is honestly.. is im thinking about moving to smaller bulbs.. and going vert... and just put more bulbs in the rooms.. to be honest.. the problem is.. im not sure if I want to do monster trees.. or just stacks of smallers.. ? I just want the best yield.. and QUALITY .. lol. I like seeing these grows were the colas are the same size as the smallest bud on the bottom of the plant.. that's what I want to achieve..


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## ttystikk (Aug 27, 2014)

You just gotta do it; practice makes perfect. I don't see how you could lose yield, just follow the same basic rules as flatlander grows; keep things trimmed up n clean, not too close to the bulb, keep the girls happy n fed. I find that higher humidity (60-70% RH) helps to reduce stress n leaf burn.


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## ODanksta (Aug 27, 2014)

What are you pulling per light? That is if you don't mind me asking, ive built cages like this for tomatoes outside, the problem that i had was i couldn't get inside the cage to pick the damn tomatoes. Now MJ is different, but is it a bitch to do maintenance?


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## ttystikk (Aug 27, 2014)

ODanksta said:


> What are you pulling per light? That is if you don't mind me asking, ive built cages like this for tomatoes outside, the problem that i had was i couldn't get inside the cage to pick the damn tomatoes. Now MJ is different, but is it a bitch to do maintenance?


We're pulling over three # a light right now, we think that four per is a reachable goal as an overall average.

I built an access for people to get inside and do maintenance and plant training, but it's hard to move around in there because the bulbs take up the space. Getting those out of the way would make it much better.


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## ODanksta (Aug 27, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> We're pulling over three # a light right now, we think that four per is a reachable goal as an overall average.
> 
> I built an access for people to get inside and do maintenance and plant training, but it's hard to move around in there because the bulbs take up the space. Getting those out of the way would make it much better.


Damn homie 3 to 4, is that off 1k hid? I read somewhere in this thread you were using 860 watts, I believe, im assuming that is 2-400 watt dimmable digi's right? But that's got to be 3 to 4, off the silo?. I haven't set my new room up yet but if your pulling that i might actually try this. What if you had four silos with a light in the middle. Could you let them fill in the middle too. Im sure you could, right? 
I might try this, I would not have to buy more lights. But the reason i wanted to do raised beds because of the access, but now thinking about it. I wouldn't be able to get to the middle anyways. I was thinking that if i vegged only for 10 days instead of 2 months i would need less training and it doesn't have time to have problems.shit i got some thinking to do.


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## ODanksta (Aug 27, 2014)

I have another question, i have not seen your lighting set up. I think you are using glass tubes and icebox's. I don't like iceboxs and because of the whole chiller thing, i just feel that you are using so much electricity, doesn't that offset the profit? That's the reason i like soil, no water chillers, pumps, rez changes or meters needed. And shit you in colorado isnt it suppose to be cold there..lol


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## ttystikk (Aug 27, 2014)

ODanksta said:


> I have another question, i have not seen your lighting set up. I think you are using glass tubes and icebox's. I don't like iceboxs and because of the whole chiller thing, i just feel that you using so much electricity, doesn't that offset the profit? That's the reason i like soil, no water chillers, pumps, rez changes or meters needed. And shit you in colorado isnt it suppose to be cold there..lol


This one first; I use water cooling as a replacement for AC, plus it cools my RDWC water and even dehueys the space for free. Oh, and it's 30% more efficient than AC for cooling, so I'm not sure where you get that I'm spending extra?

No glass tubes, it's bare bulb vertical. Lamps are 860W CDM, protected. Spectrum is pretty nice for HID:

 

Two bulbs in the silo, stacked up the centerline. Just four plants up the outside... we're getting up to 1-1.5# now (the average is lower, but that's due to old problems still working their way thru the system) and we are working to get two apiece soon.

The Iceboxes are too small, so we upsized;

 
That should work better.

Just to clear up any doubts about the efficiency of water cooling; I've been running three rooms with four of the above BARE BULBS in each one... all of them run twelve out of twenty four hours, and just one two Ton chiller has kept up with all three. Through the summer.


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## ODanksta (Aug 27, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> This one first; I use water cooling as a replacement for AC, plus it cools my RDWC water and even dehueys the space for free. Oh, and it's 30% more efficient than AC for cooling, so I'm not sure where you get that I'm spending extra?
> 
> No glass tubes, it's bare bulb vertical. Lamps are 860W CDM, protected. Spectrum is pretty nice for HID:
> 
> ...


Hell yeah! Thanks for responding! Damn i didn't know you have three rooms. Bare bulbs are best! And on top of that you using CDM! That's badass bro, sorry i didn't read that.
As always much respect!

So your using one 860 CDM per silo? Sorry if missed that.

The heat exchanger looks legit btw!


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## JointOperation (Aug 28, 2014)

nice ya.. ive always grown horizontal.. I tried a vert.. and did great.. but my main room is such a weird shape that its tough.. I got like a 6x6 room connected to a 8x10 like an L.. and I run 3 1000s.. and a 1000w vert on a flip flop.. to add more lights.


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## ttystikk (Aug 28, 2014)

Vertical can work well for 'weird spaces' just because of it's small footprint.

Depending on the silo size that will fit, you can have anywhere from six by six foot square all the way down to three by three.

Heights can vary by the number of bulbs inside as well as size in watts.

Having it to do over- what else is a lab environment for if not repeatability?- I did go vertical, and I did it in weird spaces.

Now the plants get ideal lighting no matter how weird the space is.


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## thay5212 (Aug 28, 2014)

Hey tty, finally got around to checkin out some of your pics over here, your setup looks great man. After our convo at Avo's a few weeks ago I went ahead and setup my grow vert, no doubt after only a few weeks I've noticed better all around plants with the increase in light they are getting. Still a work in progress and I just had a terrible m/f rate so I'm a bit bare on one side right now but that will be fixed soon, have some clones about ready to drop in there. Surrounding the lights with an eventual sog underneath instead of stacking lights. Anyways, just stopping by to say hey.

- Thay


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## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2014)

@thay5212 hey, nice of you to drop by! Glad you're liking the vertical approach, it will seem more and more natural the more runs you do with it.

You couldn't pay me to go back!


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## ttystikk (Aug 30, 2014)

@justugh 'waterfalls are shit'

Funny, Mother Nature's been using them to great effect for a few billion years now. The fish in the streams aren't dead, and the river itself is well purified by the action of falling water.

Air pumps and stones generally don't agitate the water column in the tub very well, nor do they break surface tension effectively. This is why waterfalls work as well our better than any of these insanely complicated and expensive systems.

Put even more simply, adequate, complete, saturated levels of oxygenation are EASY to attain, not difficult.

I'm going to say this one more time, just so the fucking noobs get it; EVERYTHING I ADVOCATE COMES FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. If it didn't work, I wouldn't be pushing it!

What financial incentive do I have for saying air pumps are unnecessary? None! What's the vested interest of all these other sources who want to sell you an air pump based aeration system? Duh!


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## ttystikk (Aug 30, 2014)

So genius doubles down and says fish don't need as much dissolved oxygen as plants do, lol

That's a pretty funny idea with all my trout fishing buddies!


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## SOMEBEECH (Sep 1, 2014)

Read almost all this and didn't see anything,but 1 bud.And it looks terrible for someone that comes across as
my way or no way.I prefer as do my patients good Bud,not any thing here to convince me to go vert.
I do perpetual scrogs,and don't think I will ever do another method.
Gl,with the Verts,nothing really against them,seen Heath Robinsons and it was great,but to each his own.


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## ttystikk (Sep 1, 2014)

SOMEBEECH said:


> Read almost all this and didn't see anything,but 1 bud.And it looks terrible for someone that comes across as
> my way or no way.I prefer as do my patients good Bud,not any thing here to convince me to go vert.
> I do perpetual scrogs,and don't think I will ever do another method.
> Gl,with the Verts,nothing really against them,seen Heath Robinsons and it was great,but to each his own.


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## a senile fungus (Sep 11, 2014)

How're the CMHs treating ya buddy?

I'm closer and closer everyday to making what we discussed be a reality.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Rollitup mobile app


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> How're the CMHs treating ya buddy?
> 
> I'm closer and closer everyday to making what we discussed be a reality.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Rollitup mobile app


I love them, everyone who's seen them loves them, and the HPS lit room is almost finished, which will give direct comparisons for grams per watt.


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## a senile fungus (Sep 11, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> I love them, everyone who's seen them loves them, and the HPS lit room is almost finished, which will give direct comparisons for grams per watt.



Do you use the trim for anything?

I'd be interested to see if the CMH plants will yield more overall including usable trim for hashmaking or whatnot...

All the runs I've seen with them have impressed me.

Have you noticed lower temps with them as well?

The 860w I'm imagining still throws out heat but is it comparable to another HID bulb?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Rollitup mobile app


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> Do you use the trim for anything?
> 
> I'd be interested to see if the CMH plants will yield more overall including usable trim for hashmaking or whatnot...
> 
> ...


Absolutely! If it doesn't go in a bag as product, it goes in the hash bin. Most of the trash leaves have been removed by the time the plants come down anyway.

The tech is CDM, don't ask me what the difference is between that and CMH. The yield for bho runs is over ten and touching twelve percent, that's for the mix of everything from trim to sugar leaf.

I'm improving everything in the rooms right along, so the CDM difference is not obvious just yet. The HPS room will tell us what the differences really are.

They run cooler, so plants can grow much closer to them. On the other hand, they take FOREVER to cool off enough to restart, sometimes 25 minutes isn't enough. Very strange.

They do save power and they do save a bit on chilling costs. It remains to be seen if yield suffers.


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## a senile fungus (Sep 11, 2014)

Same difference, it seems...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_discharge_metal-halide_lamp


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> Same difference, it seems...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_discharge_metal-halide_lamp


Following the links gave me a fun little history lesson on the tech. These things are quite new, it seems. These high watt CDM lamps just haven't been available for more than maybe ten years.


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## Pepe le skunk (Sep 13, 2014)

Wet dry systems for salt water tanks work on same principle and can be used in fresh water fish tanks as well. The oxygen gets in at the surface of the air tension. By spreading the water out, into thin or small droplets, you super oxgenate or super saturate the water. The dissolved oxygen levels go way up. A protein skimmer does the same thing in a chamber and creates a False or artifical air water interface and increases oxygen levels. (produces a froth of protein in salt water skimming the water) It can reduce nutrient content if allowed to bubble for a long time. A good example of this type of tech in hydro is NFT or aeroponics.

Just want to say nice thread. In for results on the CMH difference. Also would like to hear more about cooling your doing on the lights. That ice cap results and how the other one a few pages back is being done.


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 13, 2014)

Nice work ty


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## Growan (Sep 18, 2014)

Phew. Read it all. Good stuff Tty, really good.

Do you know if there is any usable light that hits the floor, or at least below the screens? I imagine little light eminates from the tip of a bare bulb, but if it does, it could be used for a little SOG?
I'm picturing a bunch of 2l Hempys with rooted cuts from the scrap from back side of the silo.


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## ttystikk (Sep 20, 2014)

Growan said:


> Phew. Read it all. Good stuff Tty, really good.
> 
> Do you know if there is any usable light that hits the floor, or at least below the screens? I imagine little light eminates from the tip of a bare bulb, but if it does, it could be used for a little SOG?
> I'm picturing a bunch of 2l Hempys with rooted cuts from the scrap from back side of the silo.


I use a bit of reflective material to send light hitting the top and bottom of the silo to the outside where the plants are. This helps even up the lighting the ends receive so plants get first from the bulb light AND reflected light, almost as if they were between the bulbs.

I've heard the SOG on the floor idea before, perhaps with a truly spherical light source it would be more feasible. As it is, it use relive materials as above, and use the area directly along the centerline for mounting the bulbs.


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## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2014)

Still battling mysterious rising temps. It takes all night for temps to climb into the mid 80s, but they do. Water temps in my chilling system aren't rising though. Strange...


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## hyroot (Sep 27, 2014)

cmh / cdm use a ceramic arc. which degrades far less than hps and last 3 times longer. Also able to produce a more even spetrum - high cri. Hps use an aluminum arc. Which degrades more and at a much faster rate. Cmh kills hps hands down. I used to run 2 330 all starts that replaced a 1000w hps before I started using induction and led. I kind of want to go back to cmh. I'd rather use the elit agro bulbs. They are all made by philips too.


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## ttystikk (Sep 27, 2014)

Had some issues with my main breaker, and I am fortunate to have an electrician friend who can help on shirt notice. One leg of my 240V service was extremely loose, making for a poor connection and cooking the breaker with excess resistance. I'm sure that contributed to all sorts of problems, flickering CDM bulbs among them. Seriously.

I have some serious power balancing homework to do; I was going to run things as two groups powerwise and it isn't working out that way.


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## PetFlora (Oct 16, 2014)

Love your inventiveness

After a long road down various aero/hydro, I returned to my roots using a simple F & D, sized for small grows using storage totes

Drop by


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## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2014)

Power balancing wasn't the problem; running 99 amps on a 100A house main was!

Couple thousand dollars upgraded me to 150A service, plus a new panel for my op.

This is the RIGHT way to do it. Doing it the wrong way will get you a face to face meeting with a really pissed off fire station captain, the cops and probably a jail warden or two... as a bonus you'll be secure in the knowledge that everything you have is ruined- but there will still be enough evidence among the charred remains to put you away for awhile, especially if you were stupid enough to go messing with your breaker panel in a multi family dwelling (attempted murder charges due to negligence).

Long sentence. If you don't have an electrician's license and you have done ANYTHING in your panel besides reset a breaker, go back and read it again.


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## DCobeen (Oct 16, 2014)

Yep. I push 80 amps max out of my 100 and that was in summer with 3 ac's and all my stuff going. now no ac's so am back to 60 amps or so. I am happy with my new breaker box. I dont know how you are running all that at only 99 amps. shit the microwave/coffee maker/fridge working at the same time could have burnt you down big time. i am happy you upgraded. i went form a 60 to 100 but when i move it will be duel 100 breaker boxes. its cheaper to do 2 100's then a 200.


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## ttystikk (Oct 18, 2014)

DCobeen said:


> Yep. I push 80 amps max out of my 100 and that was in summer with 3 ac's and all my stuff going. now no ac's so am back to 60 amps or so. I am happy with my new breaker box. I dont know how you are running all that at only 99 amps. shit the microwave/coffee maker/fridge working at the same time could have burnt you down big time. i am happy you upgraded. i went form a 60 to 100 but when i move it will be duel 100 breaker boxes. its cheaper to do 2 100's then a 200.


Lol yes, the coffeemaker and the oven popped the main breaker once or twice before I upgraded. I don't watch much tube, so that wasn't a problem.

I'm happy with the 150A upgrade. It didn't require any special permits with the city or any approvals which could be looked up later.

I still pull 99 amps, but now I have more headroom, lol


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## DCobeen (Oct 18, 2014)

In the day i dont use much at all. i run my big shit at night when we sleep so nothing is on except the grow rooms.


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## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2014)

DCobeen said:


> In the day i dont use much at all. i run my big shit at night when we sleep so nothing is on except the grow rooms.


I've broken the twenty four hour day into four six hour quadrants. Each quadrant has a different mix of lighting on, and thus I'm able to spread the loads;

Midnight to six am; 50 amps, plus 35 for pumps, fans and HVAC
Six am to noon; 50 amps, plus the 35
Noon to six; 60 amps, plus
Six to midnight; 60 amps, plus the usual.

I highly recommend anyone running around the clock operations make themselves a power management schedule, so they know what's on and how close they are to tripping their breakers.

It's been well documented here that my HVAC system is comprised of water chilling gear. Therefore, the same system provides cooling and dehuey in every space, independent of where it is or when it's on.


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## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> How're the CMHs treating ya buddy?
> 
> I'm closer and closer everyday to making what we discussed be a reality.


The 860W CDM lamps work well, love the spectrum- BUT. The HPS room looks better right now. I'm not letting one run sway me one way or the other, but the HPS room looks pretty strong by comparison at this stage of the cycle.

It honestly isn't what I want to see, either- but I refuse to labor under any misconceptions I can avoid or eliminate.


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## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2014)

I just did my good deed for the day; I spoke to a kid, maybe 23, who has arthritis in his hip. He's a cashier at the local grocery store, making somewhere between an insult and a kick in the balls, so he can't afford to buy medicine even though it helps a lot.

I gave him a quarter off the top of my best plant and some hard candy with kief in it. I'll see him regularly because he's right around the corner, so I'll know when he needs more.

Medicaid is jerking him around because he's a kid and doesn't know any better. In what world is that acceptable?


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## PetFlora (Oct 20, 2014)

*tty,*

Tell him to research on line, things like Astaxanthan, coconut oil, lipospheric vitamin C

He could check this out for the ingredients, and source then, though they are human grade

http://www.vitalityscience.com/v/AllProducts/flex-n-free-Dog/arthritis-Dog.asp

http://www.vitalityscience.com/v/AllProducts/combo-Dog-flex-lipids/arthritis.asp


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## Pancho-N-Lefty (Oct 20, 2014)

good to see u still rockin' the silo TTy. missed your postings elsewhere and followed you here so im enjoying the information once again. I was curious what your regimen is these days. as soon as my posting ct is up ill im you for some details. peace bro!

PnL


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## ttystikk (Oct 21, 2014)

Pancho-N-Lefty said:


> good to see u still rockin' the silo TTy. missed your postings elsewhere and followed you here so im enjoying the information once again. I was curious what your regimen is these days. as soon as my posting ct is up ill im you for some details. peace bro!
> 
> PnL


Hey long time no see! I'm still plugging away, doing my thing. What regimen are you referring to?


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## Dr.D81 (Oct 21, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> I've broken the twenty four hour day into four six hour quadrants. Each quadrant has a different mix of lighting on, and thus I'm able to spread the loads;
> 
> Midnight to six am; 50 amps, plus 35 for pumps, fans and HVAC
> Six am to noon; 50 amps, plus the 35
> ...


I stager my light and dark periods but i run new circuits when i build my grow at a new house. I dont like running my breakers at there max.


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## Pancho-N-Lefty (Oct 21, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Hey long time no see! I'm still plugging away, doing my thing. What regimen are you referring to?


your feeding. Thanks !


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## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> I stager my light and dark periods but i run new circuits when i build my grow at a new house. I dont like running my breakers at there max.


I didn't, either- they pop too much, lol

I didn't have the chance to move into this space with a lot of money, so I'm upgrading as I have time.

Once I started tripping breakers the race was on to find the solution- but in my case it was trivially simple; I have no fewer than three electricians amongst my friends and associates. One came out and we walked through and talked out the needed upgrades and they were installed less than a week later.

Now my 100A load runs on 150A service, plenty of headroom.


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## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2014)

Pancho-N-Lefty said:


> your feeding. Thanks !


I run dry nutes, a veg blend and a bloom blend that isn't much different.

Hydrogardens.com


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## coolguy14788 (Oct 22, 2014)

Hey ttystikk was wondering if you could give me some advice on this as you seem to know vert pretty well https://www.rollitup.org/t/2000w-hps-vert-room-8x8x7-advice-please.848604/


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## DCobeen (Oct 26, 2014)

I would if running what you are do a 200 amp with 30 amp fuses with the better wiring also. costs 2x more but that way you dont stress anything.


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## ttystikk (Oct 26, 2014)

DCobeen said:


> I would if running what you are do a 200 amp with 30 amp fuses with the better wiring also. costs 2x more but that way you dont stress anything.


I don't need double my draw in headroom, just fifty percent over continuous loads is way plenty according to the manuals and any of the three electricians involved.

The other consideration was the long and expensive process- including oversight board approvals- to go from 150A to 200A. The extra three or four grand just wasn't worth it- at least, not here.

One of my design objectives is to remain under 100A in total draw at all times. There just isn't enough other shit in the house to need more than 150A.


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## DCobeen (Oct 26, 2014)

wow its expensive out there. Here $2k gets you duel 150 boxes once can be 30 amp fuses for grow and 1 for house with 20's. but im in the midwest so they dont charge as much. I hear you load and clear. your grow has cost you allot to setup.


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## ttystikk (Oct 26, 2014)

DCobeen said:


> wow its expensive out there. Here $2k gets you duel 150 boxes once can be 30 amp fuses for grow and 1 for house with 20's. but im in the midwest so they dont charge as much. I hear you load and clear. your grow has cost you allot to setup.


That's not even the half of it; all the shit that I've bought, used and discarded adds up even more!


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## ttystikk (Oct 30, 2014)

The task at hand tonight is the building and installation of a compressorless chiller made from the radiator from a recently departed Mitsubishi Lancer. The water will pass through the radiator and the fans will draw cold air through the radiator and chill the water.

It only works if outside temps are cooler than the temperature of my cooling circuit, but this is Colorado...and it IS almost November, so I'm not too worried about it for the next few months!

So far, I've got the radiator and fans all set up and working. Now for the installation of the water lines and seeing just how much of a difference she makes!

I'm hoping it makes a big difference, it has to replace a three horsepower unit that just pissed itself all over my house.


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## New Age United (Nov 1, 2014)

So you were suggesting a car radiator hooked up to a water pump with a fan blowing in, hooked up to a thermostat, right?


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## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2014)

New Age United said:


> So you were suggesting a car radiator hooked up to a water pump with a fan blowing in, hooked up to a thermostat, right?


Even simpler than that;

Car radiator is hooked up to the water circulation system, which carries cold water to the air handler in my room- another car radiator, lol One pump drives all the water in the whole cooling system, so the outside radiator doesn't even need its own pump.

Also, since I have a chiller on the same circuit, I already have all the temperature control I need for the water. When daytime temperatures rise above the setpoint of the cooling circuit water, a thermostat shuts the fan off so the system doesn't add heat during the day while it's warm outside.

Fan SUCKS, not blows cold air thru radiator with sixty degree water in it. The water loses heat and heads back into the house, ready to chill and thrill! Extra bonus; my outside patio is now in the fifties allllllll winter long, lol


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## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2014)

And yes, it works very well indeed. I'm estimating it's good for a Ton of cooling for roughly every fifteen degrees of outside air temperature below sixty f.

It would be really nice to have some way of calculating how many BTus this system is shedding.


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## ttystikk (Nov 4, 2014)

Pancho-N-Lefty said:


> good to see u still rockin' the silo TTy. missed your postings elsewhere and followed you here so im enjoying the information once again. I was curious what your regimen is these days. as soon as my posting ct is up ill im you for some details. peace bro!
> 
> PnL


Hey don't slip away... how's things going with you?


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## m4s73r (Nov 11, 2014)

OK so that took me a bit to get through. 
BUT DWAMN. lol
I may have missed it, but how long do you give them to veg once you move them to the silo?


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2014)

m4s73r said:


> OK so that took me a bit to get through.
> BUT DWAMN. lol
> I may have missed it, but how long do you give them to veg once you move them to the silo?


Used to give them two weeks. Today's update is that we are trashing the veg in trellis plan in favor of bigger plants coming from a bigger veg area, and the bloom room is always in bloom. This requires a much larger veg, but it's worth it.


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## m4s73r (Nov 11, 2014)

Have you thought about simplifiying the veg room, that seems like a lot of pots to be jumping around too. ie: more work lol.


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2014)

m4s73r said:


> Have you thought about simplifiying the veg room, that seems like a lot of pots to be jumping around too. ie: more work lol.


The plants only move once while they're in there, from small side to large side.


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## m4s73r (Nov 11, 2014)

ahh so it was the pic that made it seem complicated. lol
I really like how you utilize so much of the heat waste. 
Have you considered insulating the buckets to make the cooling process more efficient?
Also with the water heat, if you were to run say the same size line from your big rez to the top of the control bucket with a ball/flow valve in between, could you then pump back to the rez over the controller? 
And maybe you are, ill admit i didnt read every post, i did skim between pages 7-14 lol.


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2014)

I'm pretty lost about the water heat and ball valve thing.

Currently, the only way I can reuse my waste heat is by running my chiller in the office and using the same room as the whole house fresh air intake. This way, cold (8.3f right now!) air comes in, absorbs the heat being rejected from the chiller and then goes down the hallway and then downstairs, heating the rest of my house along the way.

The compressorless chiller is a big time money saving device but I can't use it to bring waste heat anywhere as the cooling system water runs at about 50f, give or take. As such it would be fine for keeping a garage from freezing or an enclosed patio a bit warmer than outdoors.


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2014)

My RDWC system doesn't really have a separate reservoir, it's just large capacity due to the number of big tubs involved.

The control bucket actually pulls water from the tubs via gravity feed- they all sit on the ground at the same level- and that water passes across a cooling coil in the control bucket before being pumped into a manifold. That manifold delivers chilled nutrient water to a fitting in the lid of every tubsite, thus aerating and mixing the water right at the plant's roots.


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## m4s73r (Nov 12, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> I'm pretty lost about the water heat and ball valve thing.
> 
> Currently, the only way I can reuse my waste heat is by running my chiller in the office and using the same room as the whole house fresh air intake. This way, cold (8.3f right now!) air comes in, absorbs the heat being rejected from the chiller and then goes down the hallway and then downstairs, heating the rest of my house along the way.
> 
> The compressorless chiller is a big time money saving device but I can't use it to bring waste heat anywhere as the cooling system water runs at about 50f, give or take. As such it would be fine for keeping a garage from freezing or an enclosed patio a bit warmer than outdoors.


Ok so i just read more into it then i should have. lol

I was talking about adding the rez into the water circulation by using the pump to T off and pump part back to the rez and the rez slowly replacing the water in the controller. Think of it like a water lung. 55 gallons of water + the water in the system, would take a lot longer to heat up. If you also insulated each of the grow sites and water lines, less heat from the room warming the water.
less need for water cooling.

I have been really inspired by what you got going on. Where as i like hempy, the mess of it (perlite) makes me want to change. I am also not impressed with the veg growth in my hempys. A lot of lag time getting clones going.

I am basing the following on the need for a chiller due to the room heat slowly heating the water.
If you were able to isolate all the water from the grow room itself, would the chiller still be needed if your ambient room was 68-70ish.
Thinking i could build the buckets under a table then cut 3 holes in the table top for the net pots. Place a grow tent on top of the table. Keeping the buckets themselves out of the room. Buddy of mine did something similar but with a drain table. He said that the water was never in the room long enough for water temp to be a concern.

Based on my time table, i should be out there around july. With a nov, jan, mar, harvets ill let the sweet sweet cold mountain night air be my chiller.

I will not be taking my current op with me in the move. I have been commissioned with shrinking it down for 2 people before i go. (mom and stepdad) So i have to teach mom how to do all this between now and then.

Straight Perlite Hempy/flora nova bloom. 6 site aerocloner. Ph test kit. Mom has no green thumb. lol


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## ttystikk (Nov 14, 2014)

Simplicity is more complicated than it looks sometimes. 

I think the new veg room will speed things up to the point where we can pull six crops a year in the bloom room, instead of the four and a half with the current plan. That pays for the increased veg space right there.


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## ttystikk (Nov 14, 2014)

I know a lot of people looking through this thread will wonder why all the emphasis on staging and phases, but those who run dispensary operations know they live or die by those schedules.

I'm building a system so productive it will become the new standard. It will drive flatlander grows out of business, except for the occasional boutique op.

It's not arrogance, it's engineering and economics; if you can grow more weed in less space with less power and less manhours- and maintain top quality- then you'd be silly not to. After all, my next sales call will be to their competitor... and they won't say no.


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## NugHunter (Dec 9, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> I know a lot of people looking through this thread will wonder why all the emphasis on staging and phases, but those who run dispensary operations know they live or die by those schedules.
> 
> I'm building a system so productive it will become the new standard. It will drive flatlander grows out of business, except for the occasional boutique op.
> 
> It's not arrogance, it's engineering and economics; if you can grow more weed in less space with less power and less manhours- and maintain top quality- then you'd be silly not to. After all, my next sales call will be to their competitor... and they won't say no.


I think you have a great system that has the potential to be huge in todays market. Why approach anyone..why not just manufacture and distribute them yourself? Hit me up if you would like to chat more about it.


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2014)

...and things are gradually dissolving into routine, and we can start looking at the bits and pieces left over, because the big picture is getting dialed in.

Bigger room is easier to control, once adequate capacity is in place. Now I can separate the jobs of cooling and dehuey and keep the overall levels more stable.

I have given up on maintaining high RH for now; since I don't have the dependable cooling capacity I can't risk losing control to the high side and thus I can't risk sealing the room. Soooo, I save money on CO², lol


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## bripay50 (Dec 17, 2014)

was that big ass plant an auto?


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## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2014)

bripay50 said:


> was that big ass plant an auto?


Never! Autoflowers are for amateurs.


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## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2014)

The big change this cycle was a call down to Hydrogardens to track down the cause of mysterious nutrient issues. The upshot of the conversation was that their salts are meant to be mixed into a stock solution, or liquid concentrate in a large batch first, BEFORE meting out the small amounts needed for individual batches. This is clearly labeled on the bag for agricultural equipment, but since I wasn't using it that way I ignored the whole thing.

It's like this; a twenty five pound bag of nutrient salts, no matter how well mixed, will settle over time, travel and handling. To avoid hitting pockets of high concentrations of whatnot on a random basis, the solution is to put the entire bag into solution all at once. Sooooo, I put all twenty five pounds into fifty five gallons of hot water in a barrel. A few adventures later, I'm all set up to draw one gallon of concentrate per hundred gallons of reservoir capacity.

I'm hopeful- if I'm right then I am about to get a raise!


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## ttystikk (Dec 22, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> How're the CMHs treating ya buddy?
> 
> I'm closer and closer everyday to making what we discussed be a reality.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Rollitup mobile app


Been waiting for updates, how's it been going?


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## a senile fungus (Dec 23, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Been waiting for updates, how's it been going?








So far so good.

I'm not gonna be able to veg them for as long as I'd hoped, so I put them on buckets to raise them up to my trellis. I'll be flipping to 12/12 soon. 

They are all healthy, slight cal and mag issues being sorted out, but I'm new to organics and thus far have only watered them. The two lighter green ones are runts and are being left in the small pots, they can live near the entrance so I'll fit in nicely.

My next run in this tent I'll be able to veg them out to full size like I wanted and fill the tent to the max. This round is more like tester of the lights I guess, which BTW they love.

I've had leaves within 6 inches of the bulb with no ill effect.

Any questions please ask.




You can see here that I have them in two groups, one around each light. I know that once I move the pots to the walls my light intensity will diminish drastically from where it is now and I wonder how that will effect them? They will each be moving about a foot outwards towards the walls of the tent. Let me know what you think about this... They love being close and I'm wondering if being a foot farther away will slow them down or encourage them to speed up and get closer to the light...


Also, I'm honestly having trouble keeping temps up I'm there with these lights running so cool.

It stays 64-70F in that tent constantly. I'm wondering if I need a heat source or another light lol, could those low temps contribute to slow growth? Maybe I'm just not used to soil...


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> View attachment 3318191
> 
> View attachment 3318192
> 
> ...


What kind of lights?

Seal up any cracks, vents or openings to retain heat.

Maybe you do need a space heater, it happens. Keep your nighttime temps up in the sixties, too.

I think the plants are doing well where they are and I can't speak to their lighting without a better idea of the lamp.


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## a senile fungus (Dec 23, 2014)

I have the two 315w CMH in the 4K color.

My room has neg pressure so its a matter of heating and humidifying the air before it gets to the room...


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> I have the two 315w CMH in the 4K color.
> 
> My room has neg pressure so its a matter of heating and humidifying the air before it gets to the room...


NICE lights! I don't know how your plants will react.

If negative pressure, then slow down the rate of air turnover.


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## a senile fungus (Dec 23, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> NICE lights! I don't know how your plants will react.
> 
> If negative pressure, then slow down the rate of air turnover.



Ah! Well then another issue!

I have a max fan pro 8" 863cfm that has three speed settings, its currently on low. I could use a fan speed controller to bring it even lower but lowering it lower than low can cause increased strain on the motor, no?

Maybe once I get my carbon filter rigged up it'll make the fan work a bit harder and it pull more slowly...

I guess either that or I need a less powerful fan?


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> Ah! Well then another issue!
> 
> I have a max fan pro 8" 863cfm that has three speed settings, its currently on low. I could use a fan speed controller to bring it even lower but lowering it lower than low can cause increased strain on the motor, no?
> 
> ...


It needs to be on a thermostat so it only runs when temps climb.


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## a senile fungus (Dec 23, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> It needs to be on a thermostat so it only runs when temps climb.



More money to spend!

I wonder if I can fashion one...


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> More money to spend!
> 
> I wonder if I can fashion one...


These aren't expensive.


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## a senile fungus (Dec 23, 2014)

One caveat, if I put the blower on a timer or thermostat then I'll be letting in cold wintry air when its off.

The cold air will back track through the ducting if the air pressure isn't keeping it at bay...


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> One caveat, if I put the blower on a timer or thermostat then I'll be letting in cold wintry air when its off.
> 
> The cold air will back track through the ducting if the air pressure isn't keeping it at bay...


Flaps over the ends of your ductwork are your friends. You can even weight them so they don't fly open when the fan isn't running. I do this all over my op.


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## a senile fungus (Dec 23, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Flaps over the ends of your ductwork are your friends. You can even weight them so they don't fly open when the fan isn't running. I do this all over my op.



Maybe this with those foam adhesive strips to ensure a fairly good seal.


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2014)

a senile fungus said:


> Maybe this with those foam adhesive strips to ensure a fairly good seal.


Think of the flap like a hinge; closed when the fan isn't running, but can be pushed open by the action of the fan.


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## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2014)

Having done some homework on spectrum and which parts of it have what effect on the plants, it's become clearer to me why the initial CDM experiment was unsuccessful.

HPS produces way more light in the red spectrum, which signals the plant to flower, and is apparently the source of much of the 'oomph' in light that plants use to grow. The blue/indigo/UV spectra help with trichome formation but they don't give quite the same signal to the plant to set bud and GROW like HPS does.

Then I revisited the math regarding watts per square foot of my Super Silos, it's roughly 20W/ft². If I added a CDM in the middle of the silo, between two HPS lamps at either end, I might get more yield AND a better spectrum balance. This increases the relative intensity to 30W/ft².

I'll get CDM heavy growth in the middle- but never without HPS from both above and below- and the entire silo should get good blue spectrum augmentation.

I'm just dreaming on it for now, but I'm not seeing a lot of downside. The additional heat is much less than an extra 50% and temps are well under control...


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## Merlin34 (Dec 26, 2014)

Back in the day at a dispensary grow I ran we used 2:1 ratio of hps to mh. Similar to what you're proposing. Though putting that ratio in vert would be a challenge.

Sent from Northern Colorado.


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## zor (Dec 26, 2014)

awesome grow thread ttyl. Everything from the water cooling, staged vegging, vertical lights, to the diy airless rdwc with flexible (so much fucking easier!) hose is valuable for the rest of us. Thanks for sharing!

I actually recall a few years back wondering if i could get away with flexible hose in the rdwc back at the farm. IIRC, you were the only one saying it was possible while everyone else nay say'd the idea (omg your lines will clog! there's no way! you need the pain the ass rigid pvc at least 2" etc). Proof is in the pudding. Nice job.


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## ttystikk (Dec 26, 2014)

zor said:


> awesome grow thread ttyl. Everything from the water cooling, staged vegging, vertical lights, to the diy airless rdwc with flexible (so much fucking easier!) hose is valuable for the rest of us. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> I actually recall a few years back wondering if i could get away with flexible hose in the rdwc back at the farm. IIRC, you were the only one saying it was possible while everyone else nay say'd the idea (omg your lines will clog! there's no way! you need the pain the ass rigid pvc at least 2" etc). Proof is in the pudding. Nice job.


Thanks for the kind words, brother.


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## ttystikk (Dec 26, 2014)

Merlin34 said:


> Back in the day at a dispensary grow I ran we used 2:1 ratio of hps to mh. Similar to what you're proposing. Though putting that ratio in vert would be a challenge.
> 
> Sent from Northern Colorado.


One HPS thouie hanging up near the top, an 860W CDM in the middle and an HPS thouie near the bottom. I'm thinking of mounting the two bottom lamps on a horizontal bar that itself mounts to a vertical post adjacent to the silo.

It won't achieve spectrum uniformity throughout the silo, but it would be an improvement.


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## ttystikk (Dec 26, 2014)

Meanwhile, back at the ranch;


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## ttystikk (Dec 28, 2014)

You canna believe how much people look forward to dessert around here.


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## ttystikk (Dec 30, 2014)

It's cold. It's so fucking cold the Christmas tree froze its balls off.


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## ttystikk (Jan 19, 2015)

It's been a minute since I've posted about anything new, but once again I'm trying something different.

As designed, my Super Silos currently run about twenty watts per square foot worth of HPS thouies. I've been concerned about whether that's enough light for the ladies to be all they can be. Flatlander grows regularly run 55-65W/ft² so I'm wondering if I'm leaving something on the table.

So what I've come up with for an experimental design is to cut my Super Silo right down the middle and put the two halves up against the wall- but use the same watts in each half, so I'm effectively doubling my watts per square foot.

If low light levels are the problem, doubling the available light should go a long way towards solving it. And yet this still represents just half to 2/3 of the industry standard HPS lighting per square foot; each trellis panel is twenty four square feet and I've lit that with TWO thouies in sealed in vented hoods in my flatlander days.


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## ODanksta (Jan 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Having done some homework on spectrum and which parts of it have what effect on the plants, it's become clearer to me why the initial CDM experiment was unsuccessful.
> 
> HPS produces way more light in the red spectrum, which signals the plant to flower, and is apparently the source of much of the 'oomph' in light that plants use to grow. The blue/indigo/UV spectra help with trichome formation but they don't give quite the same signal to the plant to set bud and GROW like HPS does.
> 
> ...


I really want to try plasma lighting, just dont have the cash to blow. I use to use CDM at the hydroshop I use to manage. Id get great growth the first 4 weeks then after four weeks it wouldnt do shit.

At home I use HPS start finish, and a single 8 year old 24" T5 for clones and germination. But I have to admit the buds flowered under the MH are way more frosty..

Hey tty do use individual RDWC or are you using a controller? And what size uniseals or pvc? And have you had and issues with the pipes clogging?

I saw some dude using a recycling shallow water cultivation areoponic hybrid system.. he was using 32 gallon trash cans with misters in them.. pretty sick system he had, but seemed like to much room for a error for me.. but is was purty cool.. I would have just filled the 32 gal trash cans with soil it probably would have been better...


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## ODanksta (Jan 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Meanwhile, back at the ranch;
> 
> View attachment 3319826 View attachment 3319827


Plants look awesome but the genetics look not so great.. Is that, that dirty white boy shit? The only reason I say that is,because the nugs look small like 1 gram nugs everywhere.. when I breed my seeds I look for single cola domnitate plants I try to breed plants that are super easy to trim. I just cut down SLxHxJHxWW vegged for 20 days and flowered for 50 days got 3 ounces off her, and she took a whole 10 mins to trim..

My secret version of GSC's doesnt even need trimming, just pull of the fan leaves and you're good to go..


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2015)

Good eyes, my strains are aging. The Dirty White Boy was a terrible disappointment- especially after one showed itself a true hermaphrodite- IN my growroom! Fuckin' things, I yanked 'em all after that.

After that disaster, I'm a lot less enthusiastic about throwing new strains straight into my grow- but clearly I need new vigorous gear, too.


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## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2015)

ODanksta said:


> I really want to try plasma lighting, just dont have the cash to blow. I use to use CDM at the hydroshop I use to manage. Id get great growth the first 4 weeks then after four weeks it wouldnt do shit.
> 
> At home I use HPS start finish, and a single 8 year old 24" T5 for clones and germination. But I have to admit the buds flowered under the MH are way more frosty..
> 
> ...


I use 8 tubs, 27 gallons each. Each tub has a site for one plant. The tubs are connected together with 1" screw on bulkhead fittings and 1" flexible hose.

There is one control bucket all the water flows back through to get pumped out to the tubsites again. It also has the copper heat exchanger coil to keep the temps in the water in the right range.

The water from the pump flows through a manifold which then distributes water to a fitting in the lid of each tubsite, where it then falls into the nutrient solution. This creates splash, agitation and aeration while effectively mixing the nutrient water continuously, no air pump or stones needed.

It works pretty well, proof is in the pics.


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## ODanksta (Jan 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Good eyes, my strains are aging. The Dirty White Boy was a terrible disappointment- especially after one showed itself a true hermaphrodite- IN my growroom! Fuckin' things, I yanked 'em all after that.
> 
> After that disaster, I'm a lot less enthusiastic about throwing new strains straight into my grow- but clearly I need new vigorous gear, too.


I need to give you some cuts of this Ghost Train Haze#1 x Long peaks blue, I call it Ghost Mountain. I isolated the infamous Ghost OG pheno but improved the yield tremendously. I send you some pics tonight, also my Shoreline x Herijuana x Jack Herer x White Widow is killer too, each hit is like a dab.. all four strains have won a cup or more..


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## ODanksta (Jan 21, 2015)

GTH#1xLPB  
SLxHxJHxWW



My version of GSC same lineage but improved genetics..


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## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2015)

That looks tasty! I like the structure, too.


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## a senile fungus (Jan 21, 2015)

I'm looking for something that gets tall and lanky so I can slap it against the netting and drop the light down next to it! 

This next run I'm definitely vegging horizontally. I hope to incorporate something like you ttystikk, where each stage of growth has a specific area and purpose. Perpetual reality here we come!


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## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> I'm looking for something that gets tall and lanky so I can slap it against the netting and drop the light down next to it!
> 
> This next run I'm definitely vegging horizontally. I hope to incorporate something like you ttystikk, where each stage of growth has a specific area and purpose. Perpetual reality here we come!


Do it brother- you'll be kicking yourself for waiting so long, lol


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## ttystikk (Jan 26, 2015)

We're trying a new approach to mounting the plants on the trellis. Up 'til now, I've always placed the plant against the outside and fished the budding tips through. This time we are mounting the entire plant on the inside and pinning it place.

We can report that it's one whole hell of a lot easier to put the plants into place, and that they don't seem to stall for a few days while they adjust- because this way there doesn't seem to be much they need to adjust to. So far they are growing like mad, with no apparent pause at all.


----------



## a senile fungus (Jan 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> We're trying a new approach to mounting the plants on the trellis. Up 'til now, I've always placed the plant against the outside and fished the budding tips through. This time we are mounting the entire plant on the inside and pinning it place.
> 
> We can report that it's one whole hell of a lot easier to put the plants into place, and that they don't seem to stall for a few days while they adjust- because this way there doesn't seem to be much they need to adjust to. So far they are growing like mad, with no apparent pause at all.



I'm glad you've converted, makes more sense this way IMO


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## ttystikk (Jan 26, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> I'm glad you've converted, makes more sense this way IMO


I had my reasons, but the plants always get the last word.


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## a senile fungus (Jan 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I had my reasons, but the plants always get the last word.



Did you make the trellis' a bit larger to account for the plants being closer to the light or do you figure it won't make a difference because you were pulling the growing tips through anyways?


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## ttystikk (Jan 26, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> Did you make the trellis' a bit larger to account for the plants being closer to the light or do you figure it won't make a difference because you were pulling the growing tips through anyways?


Left them exactly the same, to reduce variables and get a better head to head comparo.


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## ttystikk (Jan 26, 2015)

Recent pre harvest pic.


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2015)

Jillybean, ready for her close-up:


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## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jan 28, 2015)

That looks quite tasty man.
Nice job!


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## ttystikk (Feb 4, 2015)

@homebrew420 gets the credit for the strain, Hillbilly Hobby.

I'd say it's popular for the name alone, but the combination of sweet chewy lemon bars and a Bruce Lee knockout punch speaks for itself:


----------



## bigmanc (Feb 5, 2015)

I havent had time to go through it all but i do like what i see. Im going to be going vert once i set back up. It just makes sence to get more buds+canopy from the same bulb. 

In the 1st few pages you said you run 1 plant per trellis, in that pic above it seems some things have changed with the amount of plants/trellis and bulbs. 

Do you have any more pics of the grow itself?
how long does it take to veg them that tall?

all info will help really, as if i was to replicate it


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## WestDenverPioneer (Feb 5, 2015)

Nice looking stuff Titty Sticks!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 5, 2015)

bigmanc said:


> I havent had time to go through it all but i do like what i see. Im going to be going vert once i set back up. It just makes sence to get more buds+canopy from the same bulb.
> 
> In the 1st few pages you said you run 1 plant per trellis, in that pic above it seems some things have changed with the amount of plants/trellis and bulbs.
> 
> ...


Still one plant per trellis, we do veg for a good while to get the ladies big enough to fill it before the flip.


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Feb 6, 2015)

tystikk said:


> Here's an interesting pic or two, hope it gives y'all some idea...
> 
> View attachment 2976675View attachment 2976676
> 
> Great. Gotta love the upside down pic.


NICE DUDE


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Feb 6, 2015)

ODanksta said:


> GTH#1xLPB View attachment 3336100View attachment 3336101
> SLxHxJHxWW
> View attachment 3336103
> 
> ...


Amazing. How did YA improve th genetics?


----------



## Sagethisplanet (Feb 6, 2015)

Yea look at like a 380nm supplemental for preflower veg..... Any suggestions?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 6, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> NICE DUDE


Dude, that is sooooo last year. You should see what we're up to now!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 6, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> Yea look at like a 380nm supplemental for preflower veg..... Any suggestions?


For veg, I recommend a blend of HPS and quality MH, like Horti Super Blue. Another excellent alternative for small spaces is T5, again using mixed spectrum.

Turns out this is basically what they prefer in bloom, too.


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## ttystikk (Feb 6, 2015)

Just had a nice long and involved conversation/consultation with my friend, @homebrew420 . He's been the head breeder at fourteeners for years and it's all he does. There's an entirely separate crew that runs the grow houses... using his strains and crosses, of course. That alone gives him serious status- but the work he's done is quite simply world class. Just for starters, the Hillbilly Hobby in the pic above is his strain... and the list is endless.

Impressions from today's meeting:

1. The Super Silo system kicks serious ass- he's impressed with how we're doing things here. That kind of validation is worth its weight in dank buds. Yield per watt is on par with the best of the best.. and yield per ft² of floorspace is waaaay beyond what commercial warehouse operations are pulling. Our unit labor costs are a fraction of theirs.

2. He's planning to breed autoflowers soon- he thinks that modern autos finally now have potential when crossed with today's popular strains like Chem Sour Diesel, Strawberry Cough, etc. I can't wait to see what comes from this project. Other projects include growing red buds- I mean bloody red, and crossing to get color and potency into new varieties.

3. Buying brand name water bottle nutrients is no better than commercially available dry nutrient salts, you're just spending more cash for the same chems. For the money, you get a tested nutrient schedule and buffers to stabilize pH. Truly, it's not hard to add pH down when the girls want it...

4. He was very happy indeed to get a baby Hillbilly Hobby back- and will be sending us more clones to run soon! This is how our symbiotic relationship works; we get genetics that simply aren't available anywhere else at any price, CUSTOMIZED FOR THIS VERTICAL SILO APPROACH. He gets growth and potency validation and actual real world test results on his strains, without having to pay the overhead for the extra space- or labor. Simply amazing.

Straight up, I don't know of any other bootstrap/self funded research project that's doing anything like what we do.

The future is being built right here, kids- stay tuned!


----------



## Dr.Pecker (Feb 7, 2015)

So why did you change your user name and increase the size of your yoda? @ttystikk


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 7, 2015)

Dr.Pecker said:


> So why did you change your user name and increase the size of your yoda? @ttystikk


I think I set my account up twice somehow. This is the only screen name I use.


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## ttystikk (Feb 7, 2015)

Dr.Pecker said:


> So why did you change your user name and increase the size of your yoda? @ttystikk


Bigger yodas are always better...


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## Dr.Pecker (Feb 7, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I think I set my account up twice somehow. This is the only screen name I use.





ttystikk said:


> Bigger yodas are always better...


Yoda has inspired me to build the moon cocoon. His house was under a tree. but the architecture is accurate and workable. http://rollitup.org/t/anti-technology-science.833341/


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## ttystikk (Feb 7, 2015)

So last night I got "the knock."

Click here for what happened next;

http://rollitup.org/t/i-invited-the-police-in-and-gave-them-a-tour-seriously.859719/#post-11296059


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## schuylaar (Feb 7, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> So last night I got "the knock."
> 
> Click here for what happened next;
> 
> http://rollitup.org/t/i-invited-the-police-in-and-gave-them-a-tour-seriously.859719/#post-11296059


the "cop" knock send shivers and goosebumps (it's a PTSD thing for me)

i had the "semi"-cop knock the other day and sat in my living room paralyzed for 30 minutes before i could move..wasn't expecting anything.

the postman delivering some lame calendar from a realtor (addressed to occupant) that didn't fit my mailbox.


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## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2015)

Everyone should have friends and family like this;

Having discussed the situation in detail, my family and I have found money to go looking for a suitable place outside of town where my legal plant count isn't arbitrarily limited by a city ordinance.

This is a huge opportunity to start fresh, design the system from a clean sheet and build the kind of facility I can use to showcase the technology to prospective dispensary/warehouse clients.

I'm looking for a property with some elbow room, a nice shop or garage with at least a thousand ft², preferably closer to double that. I already have all the necessary skills in trades among my friends, they've indicated their eagerness to help as soon as a place is picked out.

This new facility will house the veg and multiple bloom zones and will continue to incubate the kind of technological improvements I've already outlined.

The house in town will be brought into full compliance, with two rooms housing no more than six plants each. They'll be supplied with plants from the out of town site... and thus will only need two adults in residence, NO cards required.

Because I'll have ample space, power and equipment to tinker with, the in town site will become the experimental facility, while the out of town site will be the beneficiary of lessons learned.

I can't believe my luck...
Somebody pinch me.


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## Pinworm (Feb 17, 2015)

Subbed, and looking forward to getting a chance to go through this whole thread.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Feb 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Somebody pinch me.


Pinch you? No.
Hit you with a titty stick. Yes.

Good luck on your new venture.


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## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Pinch you? No.
> Hit you with a titty stick. Yes.
> 
> Good luck on your new venture.


You play with your titty stick any way you like, but don't bring it around me... I don't go that way.


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## elkamino (Feb 18, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Everyone should have friends and family like this;
> 
> Having discussed the situation in detail, my family and I have found money to go looking for a suitable place outside of town where my legal plant count isn't arbitrarily limited by a city ordinance.
> 
> ...


Ok I'll stop lurking. Subbed and stoked to see you rock this!


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## ttystikk (Mar 7, 2015)

Just a tasty treat, bubblegum;


----------



## Mindmelted (Mar 8, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Just a tasty treat, bubblegum;
> 
> View attachment 3367089


That is beautiful.


----------



## lickalotapus (Mar 11, 2015)

Hey tysikk how did you go with your duel spectrum bulb? I bought one . It was a 600w .with 400whps and 250w mh insude one tube . I got 19 oz of it but I cant compare as my setup always varies and so do strains . Those two plants were a 12 oz world of seeds amnesia and 7 oz sensi pure power plant . Id use the bulb again for sure!


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## Fogdog (Apr 13, 2015)

subbed and looking forward to reading about your progress and learning.


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## ODanksta (Aug 6, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> Amazing. How did YA improve th genetics?


Almost same lineage. L.A con x Durban male crossed with a cherry pie female. Lol well I guess it's not really GSC but it yields fat and fast.


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## ttystikk (Aug 28, 2015)

Moving along, nothing special, just another day thirty six:


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## ttystikk (Aug 28, 2015)

Weather forecast; Ms Jillybean is frosty, with more snow to come:


----------



## TheChemist77 (Aug 29, 2015)

ODanksta said:


> Plants look awesome but the genetics look not so great.. Is that, that dirty white boy shit? The only reason I say that is,because the nugs look small like 1 gram nugs everywhere.. when I breed my seeds I look for single cola domnitate plants I try to breed plants that are super easy to trim. I just cut down SLxHxJHxWW vegged for 20 days and flowered for 50 days got 3 ounces off her, and she took a whole 10 mins to trim..
> 
> My secret version of GSC's doesnt even need trimming, just pull of the fan leaves and you're good to go..


interested in selling some genetics?


----------



## TheChemist77 (Aug 29, 2015)

hey ty, what page is the cmh/ mag ballast info on? i read the last5 pages but nothing before..


also,,, is there any way i can convince you to sell me some of the red, purple, or blue genetics?? ive been giving up on the quest for color after wasting tons of cash on strains that turn out to be green...


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> hey ty, what page is the cmh/ mag ballast info on? i read the last5 pages but nothing before..
> 
> 
> also,,, is there any way i can convince you to sell me some of the red, purple, or blue genetics?? ive been giving up on the quest for color after wasting tons of cash on strains that turn out to be green...


Not sure about the colors you're referring to?

The above pics are the ones I was talking about having been grown under 860W CDM lamps. The ones I posted yesterday.

These lamps need a standard magnetic ballast, nothing special...


----------



## TheChemist77 (Aug 29, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Not sure about the colors you're referring to?
> 
> The above pics are the ones I was talking about having been grown under 860W CDM lamps. The ones I posted yesterday.
> 
> These lamps need a standard magnetic ballast, nothing special...


Damn,, those are some tall ladies!! lookin good...


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## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> Damn,, those are some tall ladies!! lookin good...


Thank you. Imagine how they'll look with half again as much light? I'm planning the mother of all COB LED builds, to go in one of my vertical racks and run head to head vs my HID lighting.


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 29, 2015)

if you can build your own led,,, best of luck.. i am afraid of led tech,,, it keeps improving so one day i believe it will be the only indoor grow bulb but now,,unless u can build your own, any strore bought unit will be antique in a year or so...and so damn expensive.. im interested in them but afraid of it being a bad investment at the moment...


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> if you can build your own led,,, best of luck.. i am afraid of led tech,,, it keeps improving so one day i believe it will be the only indoor grow bulb but now,,unless u can build your own, any strore bought unit will be antique in a year or so...and so damn expensive.. im interested in them but afraid of it being a bad investment at the moment...


It's going to be all DIY, from the minds of @SupraSPL and @bicit and @REALSTYLES ... and my own perverse machinations, of course.


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## ttystikk (Aug 30, 2015)

Today's shot is of a grapefruit grown under only 24W/ft² of 860W CDM lighting, awaiting chop at eight weeks;


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 31, 2015)

ty, who's the grapefruit from? i have next gen's dynamite which is there stabilized grapefruit , i also have dinifem sweet deep grapefruit, female seeds big grapefruit and iced grapefruit.. what was the biggest yielding strain youve ever run of fire stuff? ive had problems with big yields and good weed, the best yield plants never seem to be that great stuff, so sometimes i sacrifice good yields for good weed..


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 31, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> ty, who's the grapefruit from? i have next gen's dynamite which is there stabilized grapefruit , i also have dinifem sweet deep grapefruit, female seeds big grapefruit and iced grapefruit.. what was the biggest yielding strain youve ever run of fire stuff? ive had problems with big yields and good weed, the best yield plants never seem to be that great stuff, so sometimes i sacrifice good yields for good weed..


It's a gift from a friend, so I don't know where it's from. Very sativa, yet finishes in 8 weeks.

Good yields have as much to do with knowing your strain's preferences and growth patterns as genetics. If you have a place for an indica to sit in veg and grow, eventually it will fill any spot you want. A sativa will just do it faster. If it's just a lil veg space you're investing it's no big deal. Holding up a while bloomroom is an impractically expensive way of doing the same thing.

In other words, grow your veg room if you want bigger yields, lol


----------



## Merlin34 (Aug 31, 2015)

Please refrain from referring to me as your friend. Friends don't steal from friends.

Colorado


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 31, 2015)

Merlin34 said:


> Please refrain from referring to me as your friend. Friends don't steal from friends.
> 
> Colorado


You stole first


----------



## Merlin34 (Aug 31, 2015)

Never stole a thing from you bro. Save it.

Colorado


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 31, 2015)

Merlin34 said:


> Never stole a thing from you bro. Save it.
> 
> Colorado


I beg to differ.


----------



## Merlin34 (Aug 31, 2015)

Right... How do you rationalize things like this? I'm just hoping to save some other poor souls from listening to your garbage advice and being suckered in by you. 

I just hope at some point you can look in the mirror and realize what you are.

Colorado


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 31, 2015)

Merlin34 said:


> Right... How do you rationalize things like this? I'm just hoping to save some other poor souls from listening to your garbage advice and being suckered in by you.
> 
> I just hope at some point you can look in the mirror and realize what you are.
> 
> Colorado


Okay, you asked for it; first, you spent pretty much your entire tenure here talking shit about me to all who would listen- while happily taking my money. Then, you lied and made up stories about what happened in order to scare off all of my friends. To top it off, you poached my best guy to go on your out of state adventure. I heard he didn't do too well... seems to happen a lot to people who listen to you.

Somehow after y'all bailed, I started ending up with a lot more money. I don't think it was stolen, I think it was laziness. I'm not saying you can't grow good weed, I'm just saying that it didn't take much to replace your efforts here, and a whole lot more.

Now you start a silly spat with wild accusations and no specifics on a grow forum instead of acting like a man and using my phone number if you think I owe you something. This is only costing you credibility, not me.

So did you get kicked out of that sexy new warehouse already and had to come back to Colorado with your tail between your legs- or is your signature line a lie as well?


----------



## Merlin34 (Aug 31, 2015)

Funny shit.

Yep I talked shit, not behind your back but to your face about the fucked up system you tried to run.

Funny thing is you pass yourself off as a growing expert but you have to hire people to grow your plants. When I first walked in your grow it looked like it snowed on your plants, PM everywhere, I saved your ass.

And nope I didn't lie to anyone about the fact that you were to stupid to comply with law enforcement about your plant limit, hell that's even in your own thread about the police.

And as far as poaching goes that's a good one considering I brought him in and when I left he left. Hmmm... Funny thing is he still works for me and is doing quite well.

And I did ask you for what was mine. Multiple times. All I got was empty promises.

You go back to growing in your mommies basement and I'll blow up huge warehouses.

I just wanted to warn people to stay as far as possible from you. That's it.

I won't be responding again so write whatever trash you want to, but to everyone else consider yourselves warned.



Colorado


----------



## Ben Leininger (Aug 31, 2015)




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## ttystikk (Aug 31, 2015)

Merlin34 said:


> Funny shit.
> 
> Yep I talked shit, not behind your back but to your face about the fucked up system you tried to run.
> 
> ...


Coward. Talk shit- just like always. You have my phone number. If you think I owe you something, call me and we'll discuss it. Otherwise, take your bullshit back wherever it came from.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 31, 2015)

Ben Leininger said:


>


Hi Ben. Hope all's well in your world.


----------



## TheChemist77 (Sep 1, 2015)

history between u guys....in my world here growers unite,, we borrow, we listen, we even give advise to one another,,we are all in the same boat...so if one ship goes down we are all FUCI<ED...i grow legally as a caregiver but know a lot of illegal growers,, we all know each other and we try to not compete to badly,, of course they make alot more money than i do but its all good,, to each his own and we are all helping people in our own ways..hope u guys can work it out...and good will to all growers!!!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 1, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> history between u guys....in my world here growers unite,, we borrow, we listen, we even give advise to one another,,we are all in the same boat...so if one ship goes down we are all FUCI<ED...i grow legally as a caregiver but know a lot of illegal growers,, we all know each other and we try to not compete to badly,, of course they make alot more money than i do but its all good,, to each his own and we are all helping people in our own ways..hope u guys can work it out...and good will to all growers!!!


Thank you, I feel the same way. For the record, my phone has yet to ring with him on the other end.


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 1, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you, I feel the same way. For the record, my phone has yet to ring with him on the other end.


of course we all compete on who grows the best and give each other shit but its all in good fun and the best of intentions...we do blind test smokes with friends to see what people like best,,feelings are hurt and quarrels and bitching ensues,,but we all leave high as hell and laughing our ways home...isnt that what we do this for? happiness? if we didnt love it, we wouldnt do it..


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## ttystikk (Sep 1, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> of course we all compete on who grows the best and give each other shit but its all in good fun and the best of intentions...we do blind test smokes with friends to see what people like best,,feelings are hurt and quarrels and bitching ensues,,but we all leave high as hell and laughing our ways home...isnt that what we do this for? happiness? if we didnt love it, we wouldnt do it..


There's that!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 1, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Today's shot is of a grapefruit grown under only 24W/ft² of 860W CDM lighting, awaiting chop at eight weeks;
> 
> View attachment 3489588


And here she is after a bit of work;


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## Michael Huntherz (Sep 2, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> And here she is after a bit of work;
> View attachment 3491289


Oh man, nice. I want to grow some grapefruit, I really like the smoke. Looking good, is that pink on the bud tips? Some of them look very pink.


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## ttystikk (Sep 2, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Oh man, nice. I want to grow some grapefruit, I really like the smoke. Looking good, is that pink on the bud tips? Some of them look very pink.


No, it's still a tan color... at least to me.


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## Michael Huntherz (Sep 2, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> No, it's still a tan color... at least to me.


Still, it will be tasty. Color is so subjective.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 2, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Still, it will be tasty. Color is so subjective.


Might be the low light in the pic. It's pretty, no arguing that!


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 2, 2015)

lookin good ty...to bad you stole the seeds,,,lol,,,just kiddin...im sorry but this is the kind of shit talking we do just in fun,, really i mean nothing by it just bs...im sorry its just plain out funny,,lol,,lol

oh and Merlin34,, were are pix of your award winning plants? do they even exist?

or am i just stirring the pot?? maybe a little but you guys can work it out,,just trade some seeds or smoke a jay together,,me smokem peace pipe!!lol


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 2, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> lookin good ty...to bad you stole the seeds,,,lol,,,just kiddin...im sorry but this is the kind of shit talking we do just in fun,, really i mean nothing by it just bs...im sorry its just plain out funny,,lol,,lol
> 
> oh and Merlin34,, were are pix of your award winning plants? do they even exist?
> 
> or am i just stirring the pot?? maybe a little but you guys can work it out,,just trade some seeds or smoke a jay together,,me smokem peace pipe!!lol


My door is always open.


----------



## gamestwin (Sep 7, 2015)

Well lookie here. Tty still cranking out the hits. Good to see you around brother.
Respect


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2015)

gamestwin said:


> Well lookie here. Tty still cranking out the hits. Good to see you around brother.
> Respect


Long time no see! How ya been, brother!


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## gamestwin (Sep 7, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Long time no see! How ya been, brother!



I been hanging in there. Dodging the Tweakers and Online lames. Everything's gravy. I'll email ya soon bro. Good to see your still kicking.. 
Respect


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2015)

gamestwin said:


> I been hanging in there. Dodging the Tweakers and Online lames. Everything's gravy. I'll email ya soon bro. Good to see your still kicking..
> Respect


Still pluggin', still puffin'... good to see you around too.


----------



## ShabbaDanks (Sep 11, 2015)

I'm not sure how I feel about this vertical thing!...Hmmmm...


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2015)

ShabbaDanks said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about this vertical thing!...Hmmmm...


Gotta go with your gut.


----------



## ShabbaDanks (Sep 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Gotta go with your gut.


The gut never lies...


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## ttystikk (Sep 18, 2015)

Nug shots du jour;


----------



## taGyo (Sep 18, 2015)




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## rkymtnman (Sep 18, 2015)

is that still the 860 bulb? lookin' sweet. how tall is that screen? 8 ft ceiling?


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## ttystikk (Sep 18, 2015)

rkymtnman said:


> is that still the 860 bulb? lookin' sweet. how tall is that screen? 8 ft ceiling?


Yes.
Thanks!
Screen is 6' tall, rafters are just under 8'. Just enough room for the 27 gallon tubs.


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## ttystikk (Sep 24, 2015)

Here's some Hillbilly Hobby- she's givin' ya the finger this morning!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 24, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Here's some Hillbilly Hobby- she's givin' ya the finger this morning!
> 
> View attachment 3507046



I love fingers like that in the morning!!


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## HockeyBeard (Sep 24, 2015)

I've been hearing about this method. You get 140ish% more canopy space in the same area with this technique as you do horizontal.


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## ttystikk (Sep 24, 2015)

HockeyBeard said:


> I've been hearing about this method. You get 140ish% more canopy space in the same area with this technique as you do horizontal.


Aisles and walkways are not optional, yet somehow never make it into people's calculations:

I ran a 16'x11' room flatlander style under 8kW of HPS in Magnum Ocho hoods, double barrel style. I had four screens, 7'x3.5' each, so I could get around them. This worked out to about 100 ft² of actual trellis area.

Vertically, I can put as much as 360 ft² in the same room. The challenge then becomes lighting and cooling it!


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2015)

Bubblegum at day 41;


----------



## chinuh man (Sep 26, 2015)

I am very intrigued sir. I like how everyone was stating this was clearly a waste of time at the beginning of the thread. 

My first question (seeing as how I am in the process of putting together my first grow setup) is for this type of method you must use sativa dominant strains... correct? or gain you also grow indica's like this efficiently?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2015)

chinuh man said:


> I am very intrigued sir. I like how everyone was stating this was clearly a waste of time at the beginning of the thread.
> 
> My first question (seeing as how I am in the process of putting together my first grow setup) is for this type of method you must use sativa dominant strains... correct? or gain you also grow indica's like this efficiently?


Some strains don't do well, but they tend to be the scraggly ones. Indicas grow just fine as long as the structure allows it. The key is getting them big enough.

I remember a lot of people telling me that. My instincts said different, so I got busy.


----------



## chinuh man (Sep 26, 2015)

so how long would you typically veg before flowering. And what light do you currently use? the reason I ask is because I have seen you in the diy led cob threads and I am curious to know if you have built a cob vertical light for your setup?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2015)

chinuh man said:


> so how long would you typically veg before flowering. And what light do you currently use? the reason I ask is because I have seen you in the diy led cob threads and I am curious to know if you have built a cob vertical light for your setup?


Two to three months, including rooting the clones.

Currently using the Philips 860W CDM lamp on the only ballast it can use, a thousand watt magnetic ballast set to MH. Cheap, lol

No, I haven't. I'm just now researching how to try something like that.


----------



## heckler73 (Sep 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Two to three months, including rooting the clones.
> 
> Currently using the Philips 860W CDM lamp on the only ballast it can use, a thousand watt magnetic ballast set to MH. Cheap, lol
> 
> No, I haven't. I'm just now researching how to try something like that.



That's funny. As I was reading this page I wondered that, too, "How would LEDs fare in this style?" 
Port the heat through a tube, fan on top. Basically build like a "Corn Cob", scaled up. Use a piece of extruded aluminum hollow-structure, like Doer's liquid-cooled light-bar. Cut-out sections to pass cooling fins into the tube. There will still be a gradient of heat, though, but it should be manageable with sufficient airflow.


----------



## chinuh man (Sep 26, 2015)

Have you brought the specs to @SupraSPL ? lol I'm sure you have enough calculations for him to tell you how to make the most perfect ppfd and energy efficient light possible for your setup. I think you just made me rethink my whole setup.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2015)

chinuh man said:


> Have you brought the specs to @SupraSPL ? lol I'm sure you have enough calculations for him to tell you how to make the most perfect ppfd and energy efficient light possible for your setup. I think you just made me rethink my whole setup.


LOL, I seem to have a way of doing that to people!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2015)

heckler73 said:


> That's funny. As I was reading this page I wondered that, too, "How would LEDs fare in this style?"
> Port the heat through a tube, fan on top. Basically build like a "Corn Cob", scaled up. Use a piece of extruded aluminum hollow-structure, like Doer's liquid-cooled light-bar. Cut-out sections to pass cooling fins into the tube. There will still be a gradient of heat, though, but it should be manageable with sufficient airflow.


Heat is actually one of the biggest issues. I've been doing some thinking on that, too.


----------



## chinuh man (Sep 26, 2015)

nothing some liquid cooling can't fix. your heat issues stem from the type of lights used. Cobs would eliminate any heat issue. Like Heckler said a fan on top in a cylinder shaped piece of aluminum. All the heatsinks inside... maybe even another fan on the bottom as I'm sure it will still hang from the ceiling rather than mount to the floor. Liquid cooling probably wouldn't even come into play.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2015)

chinuh man said:


> nothing some liquid cooling can't fix. your heat issues stem from the type of lights used. Cobs would eliminate any heat issue. Like Heckler said a fan on top in a cylinder shaped piece of aluminum. All the heatsinks inside... maybe even another fan on the bottom as I'm sure it will still hang from the ceiling rather than mount to the floor. Liquid cooling probably wouldn't even come into play.


This is absolutely untrue. Watts are watts, and a certain number of watts will generate a predictable amount of heat. It's easy to be misled by high efficiency numbers, but all that light ends up making heat as well.

I'm already adequately cooling the rooms, so I doubt I'd need additional room cooling.

Like I said, there's a lot of things to think about...


----------



## chinuh man (Sep 26, 2015)

This is why I consider myself a student. I was convinced heat wouldn't be an issue even with all the lights. Calculations are needed. How are you currently cooling the room with the hps/mh in use? you feel switching to led would NOT lower the temp?


----------



## heckler73 (Sep 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Like I said, there's a lot of things to think about...


Indeed. How many strings, how many supplies...they all have to be mounted, too. That means extending the tube.
What's the practical radius to be covered (if doing a ring design). For example, if the sweet spot for a particular COB is 44cm, then it gives a practical circumference of ~2.75m (not including other COBs in the optical path, which would extend the radius). Collimation/Lensing?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2015)

chinuh man said:


> This is why I consider myself a student. I was convinced heat wouldn't be an issue even with all the lights. Calculations are needed. How are you currently cooling the room with the hps/mh in use? you feel switching to led would NOT lower the temp?


I'm currently using a centralized water chilling system that manages both air temps and RH as well as water temps in the RDWC. I'm not planning a big change in wattage expended, so I'm expecting my total heat load to remain about what it is.

As mentioned above, I'm running 860W CDM lamps on thousand watt magnetic ballasts. This is a very high quality of light for an affordable price.


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## chinuh man (Sep 27, 2015)

http://www.highbaylightfittings.com/china-customized_3700lm_e40_36w_ip54_led_corn_bulbs_street_lamp-365597.htmlhtml

could something like this be viable if built on a bigger scale with the right spectrum? I mean in terms of $ what are we talking?


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## chinuh man (Sep 27, 2015)

http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/led-8033e42.htm?gclid=CjwKEAjwp56wBRDThOSZ3vqGzmESJABjNaj9r5U3vC_sDj5ACE1rLidP5Y-xMC1juCs4frlA7VvqChoCianw_wcB&gdftrk=gdfV27781_a_7c2325_a_7c10411_a_7cLED_d_8033E42


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## ttystikk (Sep 27, 2015)

chinuh man said:


> http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/led-8033e42.htm?gclid=CjwKEAjwp56wBRDThOSZ3vqGzmESJABjNaj9r5U3vC_sDj5ACE1rLidP5Y-xMC1juCs4frlA7VvqChoCianw_wcB&gdftrk=gdfV27781_a_7c2325_a_7c10411_a_7cLED_d_8033E42


I like this one better!
http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/led-8090m40.htm


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## ttystikk (Sep 27, 2015)

chinuh man said:


> http://www.highbaylightfittings.com/china-customized_3700lm_e40_36w_ip54_led_corn_bulbs_street_lamp-365597.htmlhtml
> 
> could something like this be viable if built on a bigger scale with the right spectrum? I mean in terms of $ what are we talking?


I have absolutely no idea, it's not a scale I'm used to operating with. I'd imagine it working at its best in a small cabinet grow.


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## chinuh man (Sep 27, 2015)

I think this would do wonders if the light had a 12" diameter 3' length for a 360° vertical style scrog?


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## ttystikk (Oct 11, 2015)

Round pegs in square holes...


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## elkamino (Oct 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I like this one better!
> http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/led-8090m40.htm


What do you know about this? Not much on the interwebs rewview-wise...


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## elkamino (Oct 11, 2015)

Specs are interesting, I've attached the report. I've just never seen a light like this before.


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## zep_lover (Oct 22, 2015)

i started building my cobs!4 done 16 more to go for my first test.


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## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2015)

zep_lover said:


> i started building my cobs!4 done 16 more to go for my first test.


Describe your design?


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## zep_lover (Oct 23, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Describe your design?


i am building 20 individual lights.1 cxb3590 3.5k with a 50 watt chinese driver mounted to heatsink usa 10 inch profile cut at 5 inch length.i am mounting the cob with a ideal cob holder and a 80 degree lens . as of right now my test has changed again but i am planning on running 4 clones .all will be on 4x4 screens mounted vertically individually.on the first i am trying 4 lights spread evenly.on the second i am running 5 lights 4 corners and 1 in middle,on the 3rd i am running 6 but still have not decided on lay out for the cobs.the fourth will be 5 cobs since that is all i have left.i have been busy and will not have time to assemble the individual lights till hopefully next week.after that then i will start assembling the aluminium frames to mount the lights in.i should have the plant count to start the 4 clones vegging in a week or two.i just finished chopping 3 gsc and cleaning and reloading the flower box they were in.i also had to clean up and thin out the next flower box that just finished stretching.i am running the test with the cobs so i dont have to contort myself to fit in a 4x4 x6 foot high cabinet with 2 600 hps in the middle.i dont fit in there too well .if i use cobs on individual plants mounted to a screen mounted on a wall in a room it will be much easier accessing the plants.i want to see the weight difference on using more cobs.if the 6 is better efficiency then 4 or 5 i will do the next round with 6 ,7,8 per plant and so on till i reach optimal lighting.i like testing for myself and seeing what works the best.most everything you see about growing with leds is not like how we both grow vertically.


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## ttystikk (Oct 23, 2015)

zep_lover said:


> i am building 20 individual lights.1 cxb3590 3.5k with a 50 watt chinese driver mounted to heatsink usa 10 inch profile cut at 5 inch length.i am mounting the cob with a ideal cob holder and a 80 degree lens . as of right now my test has changed again but i am planning on running 4 clones .all will be on 4x4 screens mounted vertically individually.on the first i am trying 4 lights spread evenly.on the second i am running 5 lights 4 corners and 1 in middle,on the 3rd i am running 6 but still have not decided on lay out for the cobs.the fourth will be 5 cobs since that is all i have left.i have been busy and will not have time to assemble the individual lights till hopefully next week.after that then i will start assembling the aluminium frames to mount the lights in.i should have the plant count to start the 4 clones vegging in a week or two.i just finished chopping 3 gsc and cleaning and reloading the flower box they were in.i also had to clean up and thin out the next flower box that just finished stretching.i am running the test with the cobs so i dont have to contort myself to fit in a 4x4 x6 foot high cabinet with 2 600 hps in the middle.i dont fit in there too well .if i use cobs on individual plants mounted to a screen mounted on a wall in a room it will be much easier accessing the plants.i want to see the weight difference on using more cobs.if the 6 is better efficiency then 4 or 5 i will do the next round with 6 ,7,8 per plant and so on till i reach optimal lighting.i like testing for myself and seeing what works the best.most everything you see about growing with leds is not like how we both grow vertically.


I'd do four lights on the first, six on the second and eight on the third. You've got enough lights to do it, so why not?


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## zep_lover (Oct 24, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'd do four lights on the first, six on the second and eight on the third. You've got enough lights to do it, so why not?


the only reason i would not try that is that it messes up my plant count.everything i do is in groups of 4 to keep my count compliant on plants.my set up is putting out 4 plants per month and doing 4 6 8 leaves 1 plant unused.the only time i do not use 4 is if something happens to a plant like my harvest i just finished with three gsc.i know by doing 4 5 6 it might take me 2 more crops till i find the sweet spot for efficiency.i have been using leds for veg for a long time and over the years have flowered with them but not with results i liked.the new cobs with their efficiency should do great but i am not committing everything i have in them till i see repeatable results.i changed my test from surrounding 1 plant with multiple lights due to the square footage i would need to commit the test and messing up my plant count.


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## ttystikk (Nov 7, 2015)

The heat pump installation is an education. As is becoming usual for Surna products, the issue is the flow rate. A half horsepower pump isn't enough?! So we're going with a full one horsepower waterpump to ensure flow to the unit is on point.

Frankly, even a cursory examination of the water heated evaporator core shows that it's suspiciously small, as are the lines running to it. If the- unlisted in the specifications given- restriction it places on flow is great enough, no amount of pressure will overcome it.

If a one horsepower water pump pushing water through 1 1/4" ID spa line isn't sufficient, I'm going to be an unhappy camper.

Before you ask, here's the specs on the downstream manifold; same 1 1/4" inlet, or an inlet surface area of 1.227 in². Manifold has three exits, all 3/4", or .441 in², times three = 1.325 in², bigger than the inlet and thus should not present a big restriction. We shall see...


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 9, 2015)

Two liter day, hangin' with the big girls;


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 9, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Two liter day, hangin' with the big girls;
> View attachment 3538986 View attachment 3538987


Nice plump bitches!


----------



## pop22 (Nov 10, 2015)

chilling a res effectively and cheaply is of great inerest to me. I built a DIY chiller from a 40 pint humidifier and it works well, but my grow room has become too crowed to use it so I've switched to organics. I'd love to do another DWC grow, but I don't have and effective colling solution for my res thats cost effective. any and all tips/suggestions are welcome!
I'll be going thru this whole thread today, VERY interesting!




tystikk said:


> Hmmm. No one wants to know anything about water chilling, or growing three times as much product in a given space, yet still using less than half the power?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 15, 2015)

Hubba hubba;


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 15, 2015)

looking good man!!


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## zep_lover (Nov 16, 2015)

what strain is that?what is your average per plant now?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

zep_lover said:


> what strain is that?what is your average per plant now?


Bubblegum. Still right around a pound, for the moment.

I'm in the midst of some upgrades for the winter growing season (see the rest of my thread, lol) and I'm expecting the results to help boost my per plant average substantially.


----------



## m4s73r (Nov 16, 2015)

Hey ttystikk, been away for awhile, Good to see you still rocking it. Looks like youve got everything dial in.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Hey ttystikk, been away for awhile, Good to see you still rocking it. Looks like youve got everything dial in.


Thanks for the kind words!

Still twisting those dials, it's always a work in progress around here!


----------



## m4s73r (Nov 16, 2015)

Glad to hear it! I have dumbed my hempy setup. Adding another 600 to the bloom room, and redoing all my lighting for veg. I really want to veg with barebulbs. I dont know, still working that out i guess.


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## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Glad to hear it! I have dumbed my hempy setup. Adding another 600 to the bloom room, and redoing all my lighting for veg. I really want to veg with barebulbs. I dont know, still working that out i guess.


IME, vegging with bare bulbs works very well. Try it soon.


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## m4s73r (Nov 16, 2015)

Well then take me to school sir. I have 8 20 gallon pots. 2 rows of 4. Im needing them to get to 28ish inches before flip.
Would i just drop down 2 lights 
X X X X
0 0
X X X X

Something like this?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Well then take me to school sir. I have 8 20 gallon pots. 2 rows of 4. Im needing them to get to 28ish inches before flip.
> Would i just drop down 2 lights
> X X X X
> 0 0
> ...


If you're looking for height, light from the top. If you're looking for thickness then light from the middle. I'm not sure what your goals are?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 16, 2015)

Goals = as much quality herb I can produce without my place of residence resembling a marijuana plant. Not volume, just quality. Ha sorry


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Goals = as much quality herb I can produce without my place of residence resembling a marijuana plant. Not volume, just quality. Ha sorry


You're gonna do fine with a donut; hang the bulb in the middle and arrange all your plants in a circle around it. Done!

It's only the secret underground laboratory that resembles a pot forest... lol I'm recreating a lil Vietnam down there, just in time for winter! Who can blame me? Now, how to get some of that food delivered?!


----------



## m4s73r (Nov 17, 2015)

Yeah thicker i suppose. Final bloom height around 5 ft i suppose. Ive always done from the top with t5s. More plants smaller pots/shorter. Moving to fewer bigger plants. Im not for sure yet. Ive done single 600 for so long. i got that down to science. Adding a second 600 and growing fewer bigger, it will be interesting to see how it comes out. 

Im considering a couple of led lights for veg to save on my electric bill. However if not ill be doing a couple of 400s. Ill dim them as clones till they get big enough to need the full amount of light.


----------



## pop22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Great thread!

Been following along and doing a lot of other reading. I want to do vertical for sure. however, I have a big investment ( for my budget ), in LED lights. And I really don't want to go back to HPS/MH. I've ordered some Cree CXA 3070 chips to build my first DIY led. So my dilemma is, to do three flats screens against the walls of the tent, ( 4'x4'x6.5' ), or try to build a light that would give similar coverage for a tower style screen. My thoughts on a DIY light for that style would be to build an octagonal frame and bolt the heatsinks to it, possibly make it rotate on center. I'm sure, given the right LEDs, driven to a high enough level, could equal the performance of HPS.

I may well start with a single flat screen and test my light, then grow from there.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

pop22 said:


> Great thread!
> 
> Been following along and doing a lot of other reading. I want to do vertical for sure. however, I have a big investment ( for my budget ), in LED lights. And I really don't want to go back to HPS/MH. I've ordered some Cree CXA 3070 chips to build my first DIY led. So my dilemma is, to do three flats screens against the walls of the tent, ( 4'x4'x6.5' ), or try to build a light that would give similar coverage for a tower style screen. My thoughts on a DIY light for that style would be to build an octagonal frame and bolt the heatsinks to it, possibly make it rotate on center. I'm sure, given the right LEDs, driven to a high enough level, could equal the performance of HPS.
> 
> I may well start with a single flat screen and test my light, then grow from there.


Thank you!

The problem with those options is that they all sound well worth pursuing!

I'd design the system around twice as many COBs so you can get the higher efficiency. That's about the only way to beat the heat monster you're building in the middle of your tent.

I haven't tested it yet, but I made the design choice NOT to reduce wattage when converting to COB LED. I did this for two reasons; one, my current 30W/ft² of 860W CDM on magnetic ballast is only barely adequate- even if I am pulling pounders, I should be getting twice the yield per square foot. Two, I wanted a no bullshit 'keep EVERYTHING else equal except the actual light source' head to head comparison of high quality HPS vs COB LED. Now if(!) yields change, there won't be any need for compensating calculations needed and I can directly compare lighting vs results.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> You're gonna do fine with a donut; hang the bulb in the middle and arrange all your plants in a circle around it. Done!
> 
> It's only the secret underground laboratory that resembles a pot forest... lol I'm recreating a lil Vietnam down there, just in time for winter! Who can blame me? Now, how to get some of that food delivered?!


In a 4x8 would you do one light or two dropped down? I always assumed two...


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> In a 4x8 would you do one light or two dropped down? I always assumed two...


4x8? I'm suddenly lost...


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> 4x8? I'm suddenly lost...


Tent is 4x8x7'7".


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## [email protected] (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you!
> 
> The problem with those options is that they all sound well worth pursuing!
> 
> ...


ey up tty. are you getting a pound per sqm using this method or more? I am setting up my first vert grow in the next few weeks, just vegging the stock at the moment... got some ideas but then just think ...


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 19, 2015)

Talk to me soon m8 cos I'm having a read through here first and youre a bit tied up. Cheers CKV


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> ey up tty. are you getting a pound per sqm using this method or more? I am setting up my first vert grow in the next few weeks, just vegging the stock at the moment... got some ideas but then just think ...


Just barely at only 300W/m² worth of 28% efficient lighting... but I will crush that stat when the COBs get here.


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Tent is 4x8x7'7".


Two donuts; hang two bulbs vertically, two circles. I think you've already done it that way, correct?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 19, 2015)

Just making sure. Still progressing purchasing some things. Still full on rooftop atm probably be another few mos before indoor ready


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Just making sure. Still progressing purchasing some things. Still full on rooftop atm probably be another few mos before indoor ready


I hear ya. What's your plan for AC?


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 19, 2015)

The room the tent is in has its on unit. It can be kept at a manageable level. Usually kept at 25c. 8" vortex sline fan and some oscillating ones as well


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Talk to me soon m8 cos I'm having a read through here first and youre a bit tied up. Cheers CKV


My style of vertical is more suited for its intended target market; commercial facilities. It can be a bit unwieldy in smaller confines. The basic concepts can certainly transfer and apply across a wide variety of scales and situations. The more you can tell me about your space and constraints, the more I might be able to help.


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

There's a lot swirling in my head right now, not sure what to make of all the changes coming so quickly. At what point does an ongoing accumulation of minor tweaks rise to the level of major revisions, of those revisions adding up to new releases... and those grow to become something truly different than it was before?

New item to add into the hot water circuitry; water cooled, natural gas fired CO² burners! They certainly add heat, which the brand new hot side circulation system is designed specifically to accept and transport to where it can be effectively utilised, right? Why not?! Which got me to thinking...

This hot water circuit would easily take the heat generated by a burner in one room during its day cycle and carry it to be shed by baseboard heaters in another on the flip, or dark, portion of its cycle, exactly when and where heat for dehuey is essential.

Look; water transports heat. Doing it at two temperatures creates huge opportunities for effective use, reuse and therefore conservation. Think of this heat and cold circulation system as 'compatible innovation' number One.

Compatible innovation number two; RDWC. This plant growing system is extremely powerful and can support massive growth but requires effective water temperature management. Water cooling is the ticket.

Compatible innovation number three; heat pump. This unit creates the temperature gradient between hot and cold water circuits and sheds excess heat, thereby consolidating, powering and managing the environmental control system. This maximizes efficiency and reliability.

CI #4; liquid cooled CO² burners. Until I get my hands on fuel cell technology, these will provide more heat that's fully compatible with the existing distribution system while providing important nutrition to the crop.

CI #5; Vertical growing. This allows for maximum utilization of interior space on a three dimensional level, made possible by the liquid cooling of RDWC and compact, powerful air handler/dehuey units.

CI #6; COB LED lighting. These lights offer performance improvements that work just as well in a vertical orientation as they do over flatlander grows. Reduced heat per unit of light output plays right into the hands of high density vertical environments, which in turn can then take maximum advantage of cool, compact, powerful light.

CI #7; Water heating for dehuey. During the day cycle, the lights provide plenty of heat for the water cooled air handlers to work against while dehumidifying. At night, heat must be added for the same purpose, else temperature falls and RH spikes, wreaking havoc by promoting fungal infestation.

I'm sooooooo not done with this list... 

Do Not forget your shades- the future is fuckin' bright!


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## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2015)

Guess who's also in the vertical LED business?

http://surna.com/commercial-cannabis-lighting-design/


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 20, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> There's a lot swirling in my head right now, not sure what to make of all the changes coming so quickly. At what point does an ongoing accumulation of minor tweaks rise to the level of major revisions, of those revisions adding up to new releases... and those grow to become something truly different than it was before?
> 
> New item to add into the hot water circuitry; water cooled, natural gas fired CO² burners! They certainly add heat, which the brand new hot side circulation system is designed specifically to accept and transport to where it can be effectively utilised, right? Why not?! Which got me to thinking...
> 
> ...


Good start on the list though. If you want change, be the change!!


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## Michael Huntherz (Nov 20, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> There's a lot swirling in my head right now, not sure what to make of all the changes coming so quickly. At what point does an ongoing accumulation of minor tweaks rise to the level of major revisions, of those revisions adding up to new releases... and those grow to become something truly different than it was before?
> 
> New item to add into the hot water circuitry; water cooled, natural gas fired CO² burners! They certainly add heat, which the brand new hot side circulation system is designed specifically to accept and transport to where it can be effectively utilised, right? Why not?! Which got me to thinking...
> 
> ...


Nice brain, dude. I like your plans. I need to move to CO, I think.


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## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Nice brain, dude. I like your plans. I need to move to CO, I think.


I'd be happy to have you as a neighbor... mind if I borrow your dab rig?


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## Michael Huntherz (Nov 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'd be happy to have you as a neighbor... mind if I borrow your dab rig?


I don't do dabs man, that shit will ruin you. That said, I have a pretty close personal connection to the Eden Labs folks, CO2 extraction leaders, and I really want a small unit from them, you can borrow that. I'm looking for jobs in the computering (Application Software or DevOps engineer) industry. I'm looking for somewhere with good access to fly fishing, and a right to farm ordinance. Where are you at? Where would you recommend based on those criteria? PM me.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I don't do dabs man, that shit will ruin you. That said, I have a pretty close personal connection to the Eden Labs folks, CO2 extraction leaders, and I really want a small unit from them, you can borrow that. I'm looking for jobs in the computering (Application Software or DevOps engineer) industry. I'm looking for somewhere with good access to fly fishing, and a right to farm ordinance. Where are you at? Where would you recommend based on those criteria? PM me.


PM Sent.


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## pop22 (Nov 21, 2015)

And that's what I'm waiting to see!




ttystikk said:


> Just barely at only 300W/m² worth of 28% efficient lighting... but I will crush that stat when the COBs get here.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

pop22 said:


> And that's what I'm waiting to see!


No waiting here. Lots n lots of work tho!


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> No waiting here. Lots n lots of work tho!


Only forward motion round here!!!


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Only forward motion round here!!!


Yessir, first of the water cooled air handlers in place today. Then the baseboard heaters, to handle nighttime temperature drops that spike RH. This could be an unknown phenomenon in Vietnam, as I recall it never gets cold enough!


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2015)

Dude if my wife hadnt slaughtered our bank account this tent would equipped and rolling, fkn hate people pissing in my cheerios. Anyway yeah, where I am anyway, Southern end, its typically 25c at night, 0520 now and its 27. Summer times we may see closer to 30 at night. Days range from anywhere between 30-40 with 40 being little extreme. We always have ocean breeze here so that keeps down a bit


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Just barely at only 300W/m² worth of 28% efficient lighting... but I will crush that stat when the COBs get here.


This stat does not include the 50-100W each times 5 magnetic ballasts, over and above the 860W each for five lamps. All up, I'm pulling about 4800W from the wall with 5x 860W CDM.

Soooooo, how does this change with the new lighting?
4 x 200W modules =800W
per 24 ft² trellis, or 33.33W/ft² x
6 trellis per run = 4800W.

This is no accident, I've been working towards this very head to head matchup for years now! The goal is to provide hard numbers with which to compare relative performance.

Convert to metric;
33.333W/ft² x 10.764=359W/m²

It's important to fully fathom the concept that this value *remains the same* between my CDM setup and the upcoming COB LED install, making it a meaningless frame of reference to use in determining yield.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Dude if my wife hadnt slaughtered our bank account this tent would equipped and rolling, fkn hate people pissing in my cheerios. Anyway yeah, where I am anyway, Southern end, its typically 25c at night, 0520 now and its 27. Summer times we may see closer to 30 at night. Days range from anywhere between 30-40 with 40 being little extreme. We always have ocean breeze here so that keeps down a bit


Last night was -5C already. Today's high? 3C. 12 possible by the weekend.


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Last night was -5C already. Today's high? 3C. 12 possible by the weekend.


Yeah....fuck that. I am a tiger not a penguin .

Was living here and working in Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk Russia few years ago. Left here 30c landed there -15c. I dont mind stints of cold, but I surely am not living in it.

Though I gotta say I enjoy visits to colder places. Usually such breathtaking beauty.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

Having held watts, watts per square foot, trellis size, plants and other parameters constant, what's left is to compare PPfd numbers. My best guess on my 860W CDM is around 400-450 average on the canopy, and there are some hot n cold spots.

By contrast, RIU's LED pros who came up with the COB and driver combo I'm using ran the numbers at 824PPfd, with ten percent off for scattering and wall losses figured in. Soooooo, basically double.

The heat, however, remains exactly the same; 4800W x 3.412 BTu/W =16,400 BTu/hr, about 1.4 Tons.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yeah....fuck that. I am a tiger not a penguin .
> 
> Was living here and working in Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk Russia few years ago. Left here 30c landed there -15c. I dont mind stints of cold, but I surely am not living in it.
> 
> Though I gotta say I enjoy visits to colder places. Usually such breathtaking beauty.


Quite right! Hence my little patch of Vietnam in my basement! I used to call it Tahiti but alas, there's no beach...


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2015)

Off subject but my wife asked me the other night why dont we move back that direction and I belly laughed hard for a good few minutes and then I put on a stone face and said 10 times in a row, " I will never move back there, never ever ever move back. Understand?" Then I said it again to make sure she didnt think I was fkn around. Life is much slower here and people have a strong connection. Was having a joint sitting on seawall yesterday and a western man and vn gf walked by and he looked away as he got near me whilst vn are walking by and riding by smiling at me?


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

By all means, come and visit Colorado! Then once you've had your fill of mountain vistas, world class recreation and beer brewing, smile in the knowledge that you'll be one of the few people going home to someplace BETTER.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

Water cooled Air handler went in pretty easily. Need a proper three position switch to crank it up to full blast, so for now she's on medium, running nice n quiet.


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> By all means, come and visit Colorado! Then once you've had your fill of mountain vistas, world class recreation and beer brewing, smile in the knowledge that you'll be one of the few people going home to someplace BETTER.


I would like to say I would do but to be honest I dont have the motivation to fly that direction much, its so far. I think it will be a few years before that direction again. You should plan a visit in the future this direction .

I am thinking my mountain views will be himalayas, upper India Nepal Tibet Bhutan. Colorado is awesome, I spent a bit of time around there working and for training.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> I would like to say I would do but to be honest I dont have the motivation to fly that direction much, its so far. I think it will be a few years before that direction again. You should plan a visit in the future this direction .
> 
> I am thinking my mountain views will be himalayas, upper India Nepal Tibet Bhutan. Colorado is awesome, I spent a bit of time around there working and for training.


I'm totally down for a trip to the top of the planet.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 21, 2015)

that bubble gum looks delicious!!!! your own line? whos breed? lovin it,,, keep it up bro...


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> that bubble gum looks delicious!!!! your own line? whos breed? lovin it,,, keep it up bro...


Got it as a cut, it's the real thing; colas big as baseball bats- after they dry- and smell that makes you look for the cards.

Thanks, just trying to do it justice.


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 22, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Got it as a cut, it's the real thing; colas big as baseball bats- after they dry- and smell that makes you look for the cards.
> 
> Thanks, just trying to do it justice.


1st time I grew Durban Poison from marijuanaseeds.nl the colas were like that and it made you giggle, decent stuff. I tried some from Dutch Passion few years later and it blew. It was smokable but not much effect


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 22, 2015)

im running th seeds bubble gum, it has the smell but loses some as it dries.. still really good, i planted 2 fem seeds they grew identicle in veg but in flower one seemed to like things better,, beautiful green leaves wile the other was yellowing and stayed shorter.. both had the gum smell.. i also ran serious seeds bubble gum, that one was more sativa it was taller and needed less veg time.. i thought it was a winner as the smell was perfect but once it dried it had no gum smell at all...id like to try crossing th seeds indica dom gum with the serious sativa dom gum and see how it turns out..have you ever had strains that change the smell entirely as they dry? i wonder why some do and some dont?

hey ty do you ever make S1's of your clones? if so, would you be interested in selling a few of your bubble gums?? id like to see how your gum would do in my grow...i had a friend who grows and i had given him some clones of misty wile he gave me a clone of his super chrystal..it was really amazing how diferently they wer wen harvested..we both grew in rock wool, both use the same nutes, i grew f&d wile he hand watered, i was useing a 400 mh in veg and 2 400 hps in flower wile he used 2 400 mh in veg and a 1k hps in flower on a light mover..i kept plants small 25 plants in a 4x4 table sog style, he had 40 plants around 5 ft tall in a 4x8 table but once dried, you would have never knew they wer the same strain.completely diferent in smell, taste, even crystalization....
sorry to ramble on your thred,, anways your grows look great as always!!!


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 22, 2015)

i have more seeds than i could ever grow,, maybe we could trade some genetics if your interested...pm me to talk if ur interested to hash out details...


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## ttystikk (Nov 22, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> i have more seeds than i could ever grow,, maybe we could trade some genetics if your interested...pm me to talk if ur interested to hash out details...


I'm a specialist. I specialize in finding ways to make better and more efficient environments and equipment for growing our favorite plants indoors.

The other side of this coin is that I'm pretty clueless when it comes to making seeds, doing any breeding or even popping beans; I have no place to deal with plants that aren't THE pheno I want, let alone males or unstable crosses that herm. There's a lot of great breeders out there, I'll never be one of them.

The way I handle this is to get cuts of proven winners and run them endlessly. This helps with my research because it eliminates a big variable when trying to determine if and how much a given alteration changes yields or quality.

Anyone who knows me personally knows I'm generous with my cuts- few people who want them walk away empty handed.


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## m4s73r (Nov 22, 2015)

So i had to go back and catch up on the thread from the last time I was around here. Couple of questions. Did you ever get any final number on CMH vs HPS? Have you decided that inside the cage is better then the outside? 
I have 8 20gallon no till pots finishing up cooking right now. I have a 600watt light from my bloom room. After going back and reading your thread im considering moving the 600 as my veg and throwing 2 1ks in my bloom room.
Also, when you move a plant from veg to bloom there is a 4x6 trellis moving with it? And if you do, does the plant hold the trellis well with out having to make a frame for it?


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## SPLFreak808 (Nov 22, 2015)

pop22 said:


> Great thread!
> 
> Been following along and doing a lot of other reading. I want to do vertical for sure. however, I have a big investment ( for my budget ), in LED lights. And I really don't want to go back to HPS/MH. I've ordered some Cree CXA 3070 chips to build my first DIY led. So my dilemma is, to do three flats screens against the walls of the tent, ( 4'x4'x6.5' ), or try to build a light that would give similar coverage for a tower style screen. My thoughts on a DIY light for that style would be to build an octagonal frame and bolt the heatsinks to it, possibly make it rotate on center. I'm sure, given the right LEDs, driven to a high enough level, could equal the performance of HPS.
> 
> I may well start with a single flat screen and test my light, then grow from there.


Your going to grow bud with a chandelier!! I want to see someone do this. Interesting


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> So i had to go back and catch up on the thread from the last time I was around here. Couple of questions. Did you ever get any final number on CMH vs HPS? Have you decided that inside the cage is better then the outside?
> I have 8 20gallon no till pots finishing up cooking right now. I have a 600watt light from my bloom room. After going back and reading your thread im considering moving the 600 as my veg and throwing 2 1ks in my bloom room.
> Also, when you move a plant from veg to bloom there is a 4x6 trellis moving with it? And if you do, does the plant hold the trellis well with out having to make a frame for it?


Nothing makes the old prof happier than to see someone who's actually eager to learn something! So, thanks.

CDM vs HPS comparo is tough to do straight across because bulb wattage doesn't match up. I think it's pretty close to 85%, not counting ballast losses. I'm plugging one into a Kill-A-Watt today to see what it pulls from the wall all up. Plusses start with spectrum and plant vigor. Maybe it's just our eyes liking the lighting better. Don't look for THIS lamp to set the growing world on fire, unless they can come up with a digital square wave ballast that won't trash the bulb. I hear there's a company hand building ballasts for them in small quantities. Call Growers House and ask them...

Inside the cage WAY better. Use bigger holes, too. Two inches is too small.

If you wanna run vert, that sounds like a good plan.

It's not in veg but I do move the plants around on their trellis. All the vine clips and soft ties we use to train the plant do a great job of holding it in place. My trellis is made of fencing do it has done rigidity. Using soft ties to tie it to hooks in the ceiling keeps it in place along with clipping it to its neighbors.


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## pop22 (Nov 23, 2015)

I can see using HID/HPS inside the tower. But what about with LED? I suppose LEDs mounted between flat screens would be a way to maximize space efficiency. I've been thinking 3 flat screens mounted close to the 4x4 tent wall, one light per screen for my setup and still have enough room to work in there. your Your thoughts on this?





ttystikk said:


> Nothing makes the old prof happier than to see someone who's actually eager to learn something! So, thanks.
> 
> CDM vs HPS comparo is tough to do straight across because bulb wattage doesn't match up. I think it's pretty close to 85%, not counting ballast losses. I'm plugging one into a Kill-A-Watt today to see what it pulls from the wall all up. Plusses start with spectrum and plant vigor. Maybe it's just our eyes liking the lighting better. Don't look for THIS lamp to set the growing world on fire, unless they can come up with a digital square wave ballast that won't trash the bulb. I hear there's a company hand building ballasts for them in small quantities. Call Growers House and ask them...
> 
> ...


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## pop22 (Nov 23, 2015)

I may try this on a very small scale. I need to see how to pass current to the light while its rotating. would prefer a brush-less setup.



SPLFreak808 said:


> Your going to grow bud with a chandelier!! I want to see someone do this. Interesting


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2015)

pop22 said:


> I can see using HID/HPS inside the tower. But what about with LED? I suppose LEDs mounted between flat screens would be a way to maximize space efficiency. I've been thinking 3 flat screens mounted close to the 4x4 tent wall, one light per screen for my setup and still have enough room to work in there. your Your thoughts on this?


I see no reason why this wouldn't work just fine. I like the plan for access.


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2015)

pop22 said:


> I may try this on a very small scale. I need to see how to pass current to the light while its rotating. would prefer a brush-less setup.


Oh, God-not another Light Spinner! Those fucking things were dangerous!


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## pop22 (Nov 23, 2015)

Yaa, it does sound rather Rube Goldberg...although I was thinking of slow rotation.........



ttystikk said:


> Oh, God-not another Light Spinner! Those fucking things were dangerous!


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2015)

pop22 said:


> Yaa, it does sound rather Rube Goldberg...although I was thinking of slow rotation.........


No rotator. Just hang the whole thing on a cord, then have an oscillating fan hit it. If you can get it to twist back and forth 45° or more then you're there. You need the fan anyway...


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## m4s73r (Nov 23, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Nothing makes the old prof happier than to see someone who's actually eager to learn something! So, thanks.
> 
> CDM vs HPS comparo is tough to do straight across because bulb wattage doesn't match up. I think it's pretty close to 85%, not counting ballast losses. I'm plugging one into a Kill-A-Watt today to see what it pulls from the wall all up. Plusses start with spectrum and plant vigor. Maybe it's just our eyes liking the lighting better. Don't look for THIS lamp to set the growing world on fire, unless they can come up with a digital square wave ballast that won't trash the bulb. I hear there's a company hand building ballasts for them in small quantities. Call Growers House and ask them...
> 
> ...


Thats what i was thinking. I have also been contemplating leaving the top half of screen in the room attached to the ceiling. Then have the bottom half attached to my pots. That way i dont have to try and move a 6x4 screen through 2 doorways. just have a 4x3 screen in veg, once filled move to bloom and flip. I cant seem to find anything but 2x4 inch welded wire fencing. got a source for 4x4?


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Thats what i was thinking. I have also been contemplating leaving the top half of screen in the room attached to the ceiling. Then have the bottom half attached to my pots. That way i dont have to try and move a 6x4 screen through 2 doorways. just have a 4x3 screen in veg, once filled move to bloom and flip. I cant seem to find anything but 2x4 inch welded wire fencing. got a source for 4x4?


It's a pain to find, usually animal fencing. Mine was for sheep n goats, which strikes me as strangely appropriate for the zoo here we call RIU...


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2015)

Got another air handler today- this one's been tossed off the truck somewhere and it's fucked. Gotta love waiting around for more to get here...


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 23, 2015)

And usually handle with care means break that mf.


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## m4s73r (Nov 26, 2015)

Well i think my super silo may not be the best way to go for my space. Got to doing some measuring and from the top of my pots to the ceiling is only 64 inches. Thats not much head room now that I'm measuring it. I may be better suited to do 2 single bulb with 2 plants per bulb and each screen being 5x6 half circle screens. Giving me 120 ft2 vs 85 ft2 that i would get with just one silo being each screen of 5'4x4'. the 2 sets of would have a 20 inch distance from the bulb vs the 24" of the single silo. The loss would be the crossing of 2 light sources on the plants vs single point of light. What do you think Tty? With 54" head room would you stack or separate?


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## ttystikk (Nov 26, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Well i think my super silo may not be the best way to go for my space. Got to doing some measuring and from the top of my pots to the ceiling is only 64 inches. Thats not much head room now that I'm measuring it. I may be better suited to do 2 single bulb with 2 plants per bulb and each screen being 5x6 half circle screens. Giving me 120 ft2 vs 85 ft2 that i would get with just one silo being each screen of 5'4x4'. the 2 sets of would have a 20 inch distance from the bulb vs the 24" of the single silo. The loss would be the crossing of 2 light sources on the plants vs single point of light. What do you think Tty? With 54" head room would you stack or separate?


I'm trying to wrap my head around what you're describing, but I'm not quite there year?


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## m4s73r (Nov 26, 2015)

Well so last night i had several glasses of wine and a couple of bowls. Let me reexplain this.
with my bloom room of 8x8 im going to have 2 1k lights. Im running 4 20 gallon no till soil pots. Each pot is sitting on tray with wheels. The top of my pot while sitting on the tray is 21 inches from the floor to top of pot.

Originally i was going to do just like your doing. individual cages for each plant around 2 stacked barebulbs. But due to the height of my rooms of 7 foot my cage would only be 5 foot 3 in Tall by 4 ft wide per plant. With 4 plants thats Giving me a total screen canopy area of 84.8 Square feet.

Option 2 would be to hang the lights singally. Still only 4 plants. So 2 plants per bulb. Id make the screen a little wider at 5.5 foot. giving each plant a 5ft tall by 5.5 ft wide screen to fill in. Doing this would also bring the plants closer to the bulb. That would give me a canopy area of 55 sq ft per light. Or a total 110 sq. 

Option 2 gives me more canopy area and plants closer to the bulb. However going stacked i get less surface area but more light per sq ft.

Leaving the qustion of which if better. more canopy but single point of light and less light per sq ft. Or stacking them and getting 2 points of light and more wattage per sq ft with the loss of 24 sq ft.


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## ttystikk (Nov 26, 2015)

@m4s73r, out of twenty or thirty tries, I only ever got one plant to grow wider than it was tall on the trellis. Therefore, you might have trouble with wide trellis panels.

Also, I fear option two will burn your plants where they're adjacent to the bulb. I had that problem with single thouies and my silo was a foot larger in circumference than yours.

Knowing what I know now, I'd make the trellis panels four feet across, to ensure the silo is the correct diameter. Make them five feet tall to fit the vertical space;
4x5=20ft², x 4=80ft² total. Put two lamps in there. 2kW/80=25W/ft², kinda low...

OR, even a third; 3kW/80ft²=37.5W/ft²

In an 8x8' room, you won't have space for two silos anyway.


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## m4s73r (Nov 26, 2015)

well 3kw is outside what my electric circuit/budget can handle.
Sounds like i may be better doing a 3.5x5 screen. Drops me to 65ft² (double a flat grow) but brings me up to 30W/ft². giving me a 14ft circumference and 4.4 ft diameter. plants with be 2.2 ft from bulb. that seems far. I suppose they will close that gap some growing to the light. Also, i can up the plant count to 5. I have the soil for 2 more pots to run 5 in a cycle.

Also, Thank you Ttystikk. I'm a big planner. Ill analyze something for months before i spend money. Having someone that's already doing something similar and whose been though the trial and error helps a bunch. You are a invaluable resource to those wanting to grow big with smaller plant count vertically. Gratitude.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Nov 26, 2015)

4 x 600 Watt


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## ttystikk (Nov 26, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> 4 x 600 Watt


Can't got them all in one row, so you'll need to do two columns and stagger.

It's a good option, for sure.


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## ttystikk (Nov 26, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> well 3kw is outside what my electric circuit/budget can handle.
> Sounds like i may be better doing a 3.5x5 screen. Drops me to 65ft² (double a flat grow) but brings me up to 30W/ft². giving me a 14ft circumference and 4.4 ft diameter. plants with be 2.2 ft from bulb. that seems far. I suppose they will close that gap some growing to the light. Also, i can up the plant count to 5. I have the soil for 2 more pots to run 5 in a cycle.
> 
> Also, Thank you Ttystikk. I'm a big planner. Ill analyze something for months before i spend money. Having someone that's already doing something similar and whose been though the trial and error helps a bunch. You are a invaluable resource to those wanting to grow big with smaller plant count vertically. Gratitude.


Thanks for the kind words! I'm paying it forward, with interest.

That's a thousand watt bulb. Think about having a hair dryer aimed at your plants for twelve hour sessions... how far away is safe?

If you train your plants to the inside of the trellis- highly recommended- then they'll be closing the gap between trellis and filament the whole cycle.

Thirty inches radius only seems like a lot when it's empty. 2¶r=C, so circumference needs to be at least 15.7', hence the four foot wide panels I use.

Look at the plant structure in this pic and you can see how quickly the gap can vanish;


----------



## m4s73r (Nov 26, 2015)

Im following you. Sounds like i was over thinking it. Got some 60in x50 ft welded wire in the cart. Cant seem to find the 4x4 locally. and online i can only find 100 ft of it. May have to take some wire cutters to the fence where i need too. This all should be taking off in the next 2 weeks. I ll actually do a grow journal on this.


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## ttystikk (Nov 26, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Im following you. Sounds like i was over thinking it. Got some 60in x50 ft welded wire in the cart. Cant seem to find the 4x4 locally. and online i can only find 100 ft of it. May have to take some wire cutters to the fence where i need too. This all should be taking off in the next 2 weeks. I ll actually do a grow journal on this.


You weren't overthinking it, you were right on the same path I was. I just give newcomer a flashlight!

4x4" field fencing for sheep n goats, lol seriously, I can't make this shit up! How much do you need? Four foot wide panels are the height of the fence, and you can get 16 six foot tall panels per 100 running feet. I got a standard roll, 330', shared some with friends and I'm nowhere near using it all.


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## m4s73r (Nov 26, 2015)

40 feet. 5 ft per panel. its not that much. i can get the 2x4 and cut out half of it with a cut off wheel. I dont have anywhere to store 290 feet of field fencing. lol


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## ttystikk (Nov 26, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> 40 feet. 5 ft per panel. its not that much. i can get the 2x4 and cut out half of it with a cut off wheel. I dont have anywhere to store 290 feet of field fencing. lol


For that quantity you might see if concrete reinforcement wire panels might work out better?


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 26, 2015)

In Vietnam they have everything rolls but will cut off whatever you want


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## m4s73r (Nov 26, 2015)

you know, the local farm and tractor place has panels that are 4x4,
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/utility-panel-5-ft-x-16-ft
but were talking 150 bucks in panels. To be honest the wire fencing is 12g 2x4 for 50ft. The whole thing will be on wheels so ill be able to just roll it out and tie plants back. wont have to reach my hand though.


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## m4s73r (Nov 26, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> In Vietnam they have everything rolls but will cut off whatever you want


Sadly American greed laughs at that kind of idea.


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## ttystikk (Nov 26, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> you know, the local farm and tractor place has panels that are 4x4,
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/utility-panel-5-ft-x-16-ft
> but were talking 150 bucks in panels. To be honest the wire fencing is 12g 2x4 for 50ft. The whole thing will be on wheels so ill be able to just roll it out and tie plants back. wont have to reach my hand though.


I've used it. It's not ideal but it works.


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 26, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Sadly American greed laughs at that kind of idea.


Spot on. Reason I like it here....or 1 of many


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## m4s73r (Nov 29, 2015)

I have often thought about moving out of the United states. Heres why i havent. I am sucking at learning spanish. So moving somewhere that i dont speak the native language has stopped me i guess. 
Really I think i just want to buy 15 acres in oregon put up a yurt raise some pigs and a orchard and live off the land. Find something on a river. Hydroelectric power. Off the grid, clean and free. Raise pigs off the orchard. 100% organic orchard fed pork. Sell the shit out that. 13 acres of orchard for the pigs. 1 acre of garden, chickens, and the yurt. Sold.


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## ttystikk (Nov 29, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> I have often thought about moving out of the United states. Heres why i havent. I am sucking at learning spanish. So moving somewhere that i dont speak the native language has stopped me i guess.
> Really I think i just want to buy 15 acres in oregon put up a yurt raise some pigs and a orchard and live off the land. Find something on a river. Hydroelectric power. Off the grid, clean and free. Raise pigs off the orchard. 100% organic orchard fed pork. Sell the shit out that. 13 acres of orchard for the pigs. 1 acre of garden, chickens, and the yurt. Sold.


Good luck getting approval for your 'free' hydro power.

You need money for your land and how are you going to wait the ten years it takes for apple trees to start producing? You could buy someone else's farm, but it still takes cash flow.

English is the world's most widely spoken language. Admit it. You're afraid of the food... lol


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 29, 2015)

Dont know how to say something bring a picture! Internet search works wonders in that dept


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## ttystikk (Nov 29, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Dont know how to say something bring a picture! Internet search works wonders in that dept


No doubt! The universal translator has arrived! Have a look at your smartphone!


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## m4s73r (Nov 29, 2015)

First, not all apple trees take 10 years to start producing. 
What would i need approval for. You can buy a hydro generator for around 3 grand. As for cash flow, total needed for land and yurt will be around 75k. Cheaper then most modern houses. Also my job allows me to work from home. I will need a good satellite internet service. But dont think its not out of the realm. Ive been a member of a homesteading forum for awhile. Theres a large trade community out there. Cannabis and organic pork. But it is my 10 year plan. I almost have enough saved up to buy land. Once land is bought i plan on going out and plant in the orchard.


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## ttystikk (Nov 29, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> First, not all apple trees take 10 years to start producing.
> What would i need approval for. You can buy a hydro generator for around 3 grand. As for cash flow, total needed for land and yurt will be around 75k. Cheaper then most modern houses. Also my job allows me to work from home. I will need a good satellite internet service. But dont think its not out of the realm. Ive been a member of a homesteading forum for awhile. Theres a large trade community out there. Cannabis and organic pork. But it is my 10 year plan. I almost have enough saved up to buy land. Once land is bought i plan on going out and plant in the orchard.


There are some very serious laws regarding the use of streams for hydropower in most parts of the country. I'm just suggesting you look into the local regulations. Otherwise, it sounds like you're well on your way!


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## m4s73r (Nov 29, 2015)

OHHH yeah your right. Blocking of streams and such can cause serious legal issues for you. The generator im talking of uses 4inch pvc pipe in the river then dumps the water back into the river after its been through the generator. But yeah blocking streams and rivers, the wildlife conservation will come after you. Lucky for me the area im looking at is on the Kalmath river i believe, and its a good sized river, over 100 ft across. Ill ask about it on my homestead forum.

I am, I dreamed this all up 2 years ago. Been putting a third of all my money into saving for it. Ill be 40 when i hit the 10 year mark. At that point i want to retire to my land and finish raising kids.


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## mc130p (Nov 30, 2015)

Vertical pizza for your vertical grow?


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2015)

mc130p said:


> Vertical pizza for your vertical grow?


Easy cheesy!


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 1, 2015)

It's pickle-juice martini time! That drink has been off my radar for a while. Glad I saw your post on DB's thread. Cheers!


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2015)

rkymtnman said:


> It's pickle-juice martini time! That drink has been off my radar for a while. Glad I saw your post on DB's thread. Cheers!


Mine was good. Good enough to go get some gin and do it right next time.

Bottoms up!


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## rkymtnman (Dec 1, 2015)

i just realized the only pickle juice i have is from these x-tra hot pickles. i like heat and these things are pretty f'in hot. might be interesting. 

what's your gin of choice? i mainly do gin and tonics with cheapo stuff. gordon's etc


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2015)

rkymtnman said:


> i just realized the only pickle juice i have is from these x-tra hot pickles. i like heat and these things are pretty f'in hot. might be interesting.
> 
> what's your gin of choice? i mainly do gin and tonics with cheapo stuff. gordon's etc


In the budget gin department, I'm partial to Gilbey's. Once, I put in the blue Sapphire bottle... and nobody ever figured it out.


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## rkymtnman (Dec 1, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> In the budget gin department, I'm partial to Gilbey's. Once, I put in the blue Sapphire bottle... and nobody ever figured it out.


too funny! my buddies wife is a vodka snob and i want to pull something like that on her. i think it's more fun if they don't ever find out. it's just a little kernel only you knows about. 

not familiar with gilbeys. have to check it out.


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## ttystikk (Dec 3, 2015)

rkymtnman said:


> too funny! my buddies wife is a vodka snob and i want to pull something like that on her. i think it's more fun if they don't ever find out. it's just a little kernel only you knows about.
> 
> not familiar with gilbeys. have to check it out.


Works just as well. The only part that sucks is having to buy that first bottle of Grey Goose, lol


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## a mongo frog (Dec 3, 2015)

@ttystikk, so all we do is pick the driver and match the amount of cobs that fits it? Or is there way more involved? Im slowly getting the jist if i understand it right.


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## ttystikk (Dec 3, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> @ttystikk, so all we do is pick the driver and match the amount of cobs that fits it? Or is there way more involved? Im slowly getting the jist if i understand it right.


Lol to be completely honest, I just chose a driver and COB combo that met my needs. I don't pretend to be an LED expert, so I picked out what I wanted and found someone to put it together for me.

Guys on the LED forum are the ones who have the knowledge about what the good combos of COBs and drivers are.


----------



## Oregon Gardener (Dec 3, 2015)

tystikk said:


> Here's an interesting pic or two, hope it gives y'all some idea...
> 
> View attachment 2976675View attachment 2976676
> 
> Great. Gotta love the upside down pic.


The second one hurt my neck.


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## ttystikk (Dec 3, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> The second one hurt my neck.


Lol that one's old!


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 3, 2015)

tystikk said:


> I believe I've been remiss in that I haven't posted any pics or discussed any details.
> 
> Tubs;
> View attachment 2977579
> ...


I love those yellow bins/tubs. I wonder what else you could do with one..


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## ttystikk (Dec 3, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I love those yellow bins/tubs. I wonder what else you could do with one..


Darn if they don't just come in awful handy-like!


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> @ttystikk, so all we do is pick the driver and match the amount of cobs that fits it? Or is there way more involved? Im slowly getting the jist if i understand it right.


I feel the need to explain further; rather than start with lists of components, I began with my desired end result and worked backwards from there;

I wanted 800+ PPfd on my canopy of 24ft², and I wanted the highest efficiency within my budget. Finally, I wanted to use relatively modern chips that wouldn't be superseded right away.

4x CXB3590 CD bin, 3500k, 72V on (I don't have my drivers part number memorized, it's 200W) provides 824PPfd over a 2x3' area. Four of these areas can be put together to evenly cover my 24 ft² trellis... Times six trellis panels= my order.

To get quantity discounts on chips and drivers, we rounded up to 100 chips and 25 drivers to build twenty five fully interchangeable modules; The first 24 will makeover the bloomroom and the last one is backup and veg light until it's needed.


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2015)

So that bubblegum from a page or two back, 'the hydra'? This one;
  

Well, I'm afraid I was wrong when I said that she might be a pound and a half.

At 26 1/4z, she's a rounding error shy of a pound and two thirds!

Sooooo... 'Personal best'. Without CO² supplementation. Without good climate control. And definitely without COB LED.

I Wonder what they'll look like once they ARE getting all these benefits? I'm betting I can make one pull three. Any takers?


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## a senile fungus (Dec 4, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> So that bubblegum from a page or two back, 'the hydra'? This one;
> View attachment 3557681 View attachment 3557682
> 
> Well, I'm afraid I was wrong when I said that she might be a pound and a half.
> ...



Nice!!


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 4, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> So that bubblegum from a page or two back, 'the hydra'? This one;
> View attachment 3557681 View attachment 3557682
> 
> Well, I'm afraid I was wrong when I said that she might be a pound and a half.
> ...


She is lovely! I got inspired, and went and got a *brand new Hydro* set.LoL I want to play too. I'm a dirt farmer except for my water cloner. I'll be doing a lot of reading and posting dumb questions.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 4, 2015)

I don't think I would take that bet. I think it can be done. However, do your homework on C02. I have been growing contentiously for 10 years. I've used C02 twice. I did not feel that it was cost effective. My unit ran on propane and was not reliable. I'm sure the technology may have changed. However, I plan to learn everything I can about this cobb/ led business! I'm fascinated.


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2015)

Lesson one; Cobb is a nasty salad. COB = Chip On Board. No croutons.


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I don't think I would take that bet. I think it can be done. However, do your homework on C02. I have been growing contentiously for 10 years. I've used C02 twice. I did not feel that it was cost effective. My unit ran on propane and was not reliable. I'm sure the technology may have changed. However, I plan to learn everything I can about this cobb/ led business! I'm fascinated.


Thanks for the heads up, I think I've done my homework on it. I'm using tanks now and will be upgrading to a burner soon. I'll use a tankless water heater, and the water will carry much of the heat away. I have natural gas service to the house and will be using that.


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## heckler73 (Dec 4, 2015)

Lesson deux: pH, muthafunka! Don't sleep on that!


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 5, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks for the heads up, I think I've done my homework on it. I'm using tanks now and will be upgrading to a burner soon. I'll use a tankless water heater, and the water will carry much of the heat away. I have natural gas service to the house and will be using that.


I'll be curious to see the results.


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## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I'll be curious to see the results.


Think of the plants as the duck floating placidly about on the pond, while the HVAC system is all that furious effort going on just beneath the surface to keep things moving...


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 5, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Lesson one; Cobb is a nasty salad. COB = Chip On Board. No croutons.


Thanks!  I was going to start reading in this forum and of course, you-tube it. However, I'm supposed to be reading hundreds of pages of Proposed, Permanent/ Temporary rules for new recreational lic. I'm procrastinating. Our state meeting, just to learn how to fill out the app is coming up.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 5, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Think of the plants as the duck floating placidly about on the pond, while the HVAC system is all that furious effort going on just beneath the surface to keep things moving...


What about fish under that water?


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 5, 2015)

O.K this has been my contribution so far to trellising plants. I'll try to do better. I did see your post yesterday and you were asking about vertical light. It almost sounded like you were looking for some weapons teck. Perhaps to build a........light saber? MMMM


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 5, 2015)

awesome dude!!!!!


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## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> O.K this has been my contribution so far to trellising plants. I'll try to do better. I did see your post yesterday and you were asking about vertical light. It almost sounded like you were looking for some weapons teck. Perhaps to build a........light saber? MMMM


The Force is strong with this one.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Dec 5, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> At 26 1/4z, she's a rounding error shy of a pound and two thirds


Giddyup! 

That's just for half of one light area, right?
Isn't there another cage on the opposing side of that bulb so its twice that amount for the total harvest (if they were to come down at same time).


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 6, 2015)

Check em out

http://www.ewao.com/a/couple-builds-greenhouse-around-home-to-grow-food-and-keep-warm/


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 6, 2015)

Cool shit man


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## ttystikk (Dec 6, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Check em out
> 
> http://www.ewao.com/a/couple-builds-greenhouse-around-home-to-grow-food-and-keep-warm/


I WANT. That's my kind of dream house!


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## ttystikk (Dec 6, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Giddyup!
> 
> That's just for half of one light area, right?
> Isn't there another cage on the opposing side of that bulb so its twice that amount for the total harvest (if they were to come down at same time).


Not exactly; that was one of six plants around five 860W CDM lamps. The rack of plants encircled and enclosed the lights inside, letting little of it escape without hitting a leaf somewhere.


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## ttystikk (Dec 6, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Water cooled Air handler went in pretty easily. Need a proper three position switch to crank it up to full blast, so for now she's on medium, running nice n quiet.


...and when my hvac tech wired it up to run full power, the motor popped. He checked the schematic; he did it right, the motor was wired wrong!

Soooooo, at least they're consistent; EVERY ONE OF FOUR UNITS I ORDERED WAS FUCKED UP ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

Guess eagle supply isn't a reliable supplier... Goodman units are fifty bux more- they look like they came off the same assembly line but perhaps their QC is better.


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## 2ANONYMOUS (Dec 6, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> So that bubblegum from a page or two back, 'the hydra'? This one;
> View attachment 3557681 View attachment 3557682
> 
> Well, I'm afraid I was wrong when I said that she might be a pound and a half.
> ...


I am curious so your saying that plant there is 26 oz ??? I' m sorry but not in a million years


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## ttystikk (Dec 7, 2015)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> I am curious so your saying that plant there is 26 oz ??? I' m sorry but not in a million years


Not in a million years? Try last week, in point of fact. That was 26 1/4, so try to keep your facts straight.

You really need to learn some tact.

You know what? The only person lacking credibility in this thread is the one staring back at you from the mirror.

You aren't welcome here if all you contribute is negativity and lies.

I give absolutely zero fucks about what you THINK it weighed. You still haven't figured out those are four inch squares in the pics.

The scale told the tale, so why don't you hit the trail?
If you're just trolling, that's a fail.
The face in your logo looks kinda pale.
The REAL anonymous thinks your schtick is stale.
Now piss off, go kick a pail,
no one here respects your silly lil wail!


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## ttystikk (Dec 7, 2015)

That was fun! 

Come at me again, sucka!


----------



## GroErr (Dec 7, 2015)

He likes to hear himself talk from what I've seen over the last week, I'll bet offline he's one of those incessant talkers that you can't get to shut up, definitely not a listener. Anyone who claims to know that much about everything and is not open to other possibilities, knows shit.


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## a senile fungus (Dec 7, 2015)

@ttystikk

Apparently you should join us in the Bust a Rhyme thread over in TnT!


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## ttystikk (Dec 7, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> @ttystikk
> 
> Apparently you should join us in the Bust a Rhyme thread over in TnT!


Oh boy... I dunno about that. I usually needs my inspirations...


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## a senile fungus (Dec 7, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Oh boy... I dunno about that. I usually needs my inspirations...


Well when you find yourself inspired, stop by and leave some text!


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 7, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Not in a million years? Try last week, in point of fact. That was 26 1/4, so try to keep your facts straight.
> 
> You really need to learn some tact.
> 
> ...


Dude you made me fall out of the chair laughing. And that motivated me to get my ass out the door for my bike ride and hang up the ssv for a minute. Steer those negative motherfuckers the other direction, I will assist!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 7, 2015)

Hey @ttystikk I thought this was an appropriate thought to share here. About 4 years back now me and what I consider my best mate stopped hanging at the pubs around here and just took to ALOT of weed, a bit of red wine with meals, & mushy or 2 once in a while. I felt my mind become unclouded as I was a fairly heavy drinker for 20 years.
Anyway, we were having a convo about a year ago and he was saying he wasnt wasting positivity on people he didnt get feedback from as he felt like he was using it up unnecessarily. My answer was "Just create enough positive energy yourself that you over ride any dumbshit", and theres alot of dumb shit and negative fcks out there for some reason......Positive vibes and positive karma man!


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## m4s73r (Dec 7, 2015)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> I am curious so your saying that plant there is 26 oz ??? I' m sorry but not in a million years





ttystikk said:


> Not in a million years? Try last week, in point of fact. That was 26 1/4, so try to keep your facts straight.
> 
> You really need to learn some tact.
> 
> ...


Sit down Son. Lol


----------



## 2ANONYMOUS (Dec 7, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Not in a million years? Try last week, in point of fact. That was 26 1/4, so try to keep your facts straight.
> 
> You really need to learn some tact.
> 
> ...


first off i see no scale only a picture but again lies can be lies could you show us a pic on drying racks or screens they were drying on how about them 3 half pound bags plus couple oz bags ??? Better yet ?? why not a couple dry bud shots you know them buds that are 1/4 size now lol
so now its 26 1/4 lol dam your sure feeding it to em all and funny thing is people are buying it...
To say that is 104 oz wet or 6.5 pounds think again ,, oh my god dude How ironic, thats the problem these days people feeding BS on sites like this


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## ttystikk (Dec 7, 2015)

Lame sauce, no cheese for you.


----------



## 2ANONYMOUS (Dec 7, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Sit down Son. Lol


Sir i have seen lots of pounds TBH 10 years ago i was charged under international law and spent 8 years in jail for smuggling 100 kilo a week into USA 8 years dude so trust me i can look at a drying rack or plant and littterally say how much it is dried ..
Guess that comes with being around it 
And TBH looking at that pic its know where close to 26 oz plant would you like me to show you what a 26 oz plant looks like ?? i assure you its much bigger and allot more buds takes a lot to make a pound 
and a pound and maybe a ew oz is what that plant is


----------



## a mongo frog (Dec 7, 2015)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> first off i see no scale only a picture but again lies can be lies could you show us a pic on drying racks or screens they were drying on how about them 3 half pound bags plus couple oz bags ??? Better yet ?? why not a couple dry bud shots you know them buds that are 1/4 size now lol
> so now its 26 1/4 lol dam your sure feeding it to em all and funny thing is people are buying it...
> To say that is 104 oz wet or 6.5 pounds think again ,, oh my god dude How ironic, thats the problem these days people feeding BS on sites like this


Your a cop or your super jealous. Informant maybe.


----------



## 2ANONYMOUS (Dec 7, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Your a cop or your super jealous. Informant maybe.


 thats a negative was an american that ratted out typical you think most will sell there first born to stay out of jail


----------



## a mongo frog (Dec 7, 2015)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> thats a negative was an american that ratted out typical you think most will sell there first born to stay out of jail


Show us your 4 k room then. Show us what you got. You shouldn't be going around the boards like a know it all to everyone with a 4k grow going.


----------



## a mongo frog (Dec 7, 2015)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> thats a negative was an american that ratted out typical you think most will sell there first born to stay out of jail


The minute you said drying racks, you should of been kicked off this thread.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 7, 2015)

only an asshole would come into someone's thread who doesnt know that person from atom and call him a liar. why in the fuck would someone just lie for no reason? and its people like you which i tell my kids to stay away from as their negative energy brings them down. Get that negative slant out of here dude.


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Dec 8, 2015)

He is jealous of Tittysticks.
Folks were jealous of Snaps, too.
Snaps posted monsters and people hated on him. 
I've met Titty and Snaps and I believe both of their claims.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> He is jealous of Tittysticks.
> Folks were jealous of Snaps, too.
> Snaps posted monsters and people hated on him.
> I've met Titty and Snaps and I believe both of their claims.


I'm thinking ol' Snaps just got too busy for the RIU bullshit; last I heard he was making bank setting up warehouses in Pueblo.

Were you at that party in Fort Collins last year?


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Dec 8, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm thinking ol' Snaps just got too busy for the RIU bullshit; last I heard he was making bank setting up warehouses in Pueblo.
> 
> Were you at that party in Fort Collins last year?


 Yep. I was the one that thought you were TittySticks. (and its still stuck in my head like that)

I met up with Snaps down in Pueblo last spring. We shared our top shelf bud with each other and partied it up while I was down there. There's not much to do down there so it was cool to have another grower to link up with. I was down there staying with friends, checking out the Pueblo scene. I'm back in Denver but I have so many plans/ideas I'm not sure where its going to take me.


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Dec 8, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> last I heard he was making bank setting up warehouses in Pueblo


I think he got in trouble... or was close to trouble. Really not sure and hate to guess. All I know is Snaps and Twitch both left the forum. The last few texts I sent to him (last spring) went unanswered.


----------



## brimck325 (Dec 8, 2015)

wow, nice plant tty!


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## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2015)

brimck325 said:


> wow, nice plant tty!


Thanks... this sounds bad lol, but which one were you referring to?


----------



## brimck325 (Dec 8, 2015)

the 26oz. one.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 8, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm thinking ol' Snaps just got too busy for the RIU bullshit; last I heard he was making bank setting up warehouses in Pueblo.
> 
> Were you at that party in Fort Collins last year?


I had to have the father and son talk today. My son looked me square in the eye and said, " Dad, there's something you should know about the internet" " It's 15 years old, and it's a shithead" He reminded me of the horrible story that I had told him about, when I was in the navy. "It doesn't have to be like that." he said. Anyway, I just thought it was relevant. LoL


----------



## m4s73r (Dec 8, 2015)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> Sir i have seen lots of pounds TBH 10 years ago i was charged under international law and spent 8 years in jail for smuggling 100 kilo a week into USA 8 years dude so trust me i can look at a drying rack or plant and littterally say how much it is dried ..
> Guess that comes with being around it
> And TBH looking at that pic its know where close to 26 oz plant would you like me to show you what a 26 oz plant looks like ?? i assure you its much bigger and allot more buds takes a lot to make a pound
> and a pound and maybe a ew oz is what that plant is


HA HA HA HA HA HAA. Ok so first lets make sure were all using the same math. There are 16 oz in a pound. So the plant is 1.625 pounds. Now Tty is growing in 27 gallon tuff boxes. " RDWC, 27 gallon tuffboxes, airless aeration, environmental control is by water chiller." (from the very first post...)

Now I have personally grown a 1 lb plant with a 10 gallon DWC under a 600 scrog. Do we see where i am going with this.

I was about to spend 10 min typing up this whole long thing about root size and lighting and environment and how long hes been dialing in his shit and genetics but.... Then I got high.

And you cant LITTTTTERALLY look at a picture and tell that shit. In person with out touching it, maybe. But you cant see weight. Its like trying to hear color. Yeah not happening.

As for your criminal background, you got caught, then snitched... nuff said.

Edit:Tty, you are going to post a final weight to solve all this yes?


----------



## m4s73r (Dec 8, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Yep. I was the one that thought you were TittySticks. (and its still stuck in my head like that)
> 
> I met up with Snaps down in Pueblo last spring. We shared our top shelf bud with each other and partied it up while I was down there. There's not much to do down there so it was cool to have another grower to link up with. I was down there staying with friends, checking out the Pueblo scene. I'm back in Denver but I have so many plans/ideas I'm not sure where its going to take me.


TittySticks is now also stuck in my head.


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## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> HA HA HA HA HA HAA. Ok so first lets make sure were all using the same math. There are 16 oz in a pound. So the plant is 1.625 pounds. Now Tty is growing in 27 gallon tuff boxes. " RDWC, 27 gallon tuffboxes, airless aeration, environmental control is by water chiller." (from the very first post...)
> 
> Now I have personally grown a 1 lb plant with a 10 gallon DWC under a 600 scrog. Do we see where i am going with this.
> 
> ...


Please explain your definition of final weight. The example in question made 26 1/4z of trimmed, dried, cured patient ready meds. Didn't count trim or anything else.


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## m4s73r (Dec 8, 2015)

well shit when you put it like that. I guess my definition isnt the same. If i can harvest thc from the plant its part of the weight. I dont care if its a fluffy bud or a top cola. weed is weed. So i may not keep it in a flower form, but lets not take away anything. Imo final weight is everything consumable off the plant driad to proper cured for a week. You lose enough in the first week that your weight dont change much after that. YMMV. I may grow a 1 lb plant. I counted every drop of weed on that fucker. the light fluffy shit and the trim gets made into either shatter or bubble hash. But im still going to take credit for it.

Now if you harvest just top colas and throw the rest of the fluff away then you shouldnt count it. You should also be ashamed of yourself. thats right, I said it. Ill say it again ASHAMED. lol


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## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> well shit when you put it like that. I guess my definition isnt the same. If i can harvest thc from the plant its part of the weight. I dont care if its a fluffy bud or a top cola. weed is weed. So i may not keep it in a flower form, but lets not take away anything. Imo final weight is everything consumable off the plant driad to proper cured for a week. You lose enough in the first week that your weight dont change much after that. YMMV. I may grow a 1 lb plant. I counted every drop of weed on that fucker. the light fluffy shit and the trim gets made into either shatter or bubble hash. But im still going to take credit for it.
> 
> Now if you harvest just top colas and throw the rest of the fluff away then you shouldnt count it. You should also be ashamed of yourself. thats right, I said it. Ill say it again ASHAMED. lol


I didn't say anything about anything going to waste... not only does the trim get processed but I even have someone carting away the stalks for some kind of organic brick making project. Seriously. But I'm not STILL not gonna count trim or stem weight!


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## a senile fungus (Dec 8, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I didn't say anything about anything going to waste... not only does the trim get processed but I even have someone carting away the stalks for some kind of organic brick making project. Seriously. But I'm not STILL not gonna count trim or stem weight!



Trim really only counts once it turns into concentrate, lol.


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## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2015)

With the CO² supplementation, they're blowing the Fuck up! I just had my latest batch suck down fifty gallons of nutrient water in just three days...that's three gallons per plant daily.


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## Merkin Donor (Dec 9, 2015)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> charged under international law and spent 8 years in jail


Funniest thing I've heard all week, got more lies for us? Where'd you spend your time for this "international" crime? Pathetic


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## pop22 (Dec 10, 2015)

I know what a pound looks like..........I bought one once...lol! And it had 8 ounces of stems and seed..............

don't miss those days at all!

And the haters are just pissed they don't have enough brains to grow a good crop!


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2015)

pop22 said:


> I know what a pound looks like..........I bought one once...lol! And it had 8 ounces of stems and seed..............
> 
> don't miss those days at all!
> 
> And the haters are just pissed they don't have enough brains to grow a good crop!


Haters are people with no imagination, who upon seeing something outside of their experience, decide to call it a lie instead of investigating further. They get angry when called out on the irrationality of their reaction, hence the term 'hater'.

It's about goddamned time I grew a big plant. I've only been trying to do it for five years now...

The best part is that there ARE pics of that plant plastered all over this thread and they STILL don't believe it!

'Pics or it didn't happen' -check
'Half a dozen witnesses' -check
SOMEONE ELSE WEIGHED IT. -check

The implication that I have something to gain by exaggerating my results tells me more about the character of the accuser than anything else.


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2015)

Speaking of haters, nice to see you stop by and 'like' the troll's posts, @sixstring2112 ! It's been awhile, hope all's well with you and yours this holiday season.


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## pop22 (Dec 10, 2015)

Well, don't feel bad, a friend on another forum grows monster as though it was normal..lol! And he's been getting death threats from haters! Its insane!



ttystikk said:


> Haters are people with no imagination, who upon seeing something outside of their experience, decide to call it a lie instead of investigating further. They get angry when called out on the irrationality of their reaction, hence the term 'hater'.
> 
> It's about goddamned time I grew a big plant. I've only been trying to do it for five years now...
> 
> ...


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## karmaxul (Dec 11, 2015)

Looks like your having fun ttystikk. Looking forward to following alone.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 11, 2015)

karmaxul said:


> Looks like your having fun ttystikk. Looking forward to following alone.


I'm watching


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## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2015)

karmaxul said:


> Looks like your having fun ttystikk. Looking forward to following alone.


Your build has fascinated me with the possibilities. I want to build a combination earth sheltered greenhouse and home that's comfortable to live in, produces fresh food year round... and doesn't consume a ton of power.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how yours works- not just nug shots, but nuts n bolts too.

My thoughts also run to using a south facing slope and a bunch of my vertical trellises working together to maximize the return on sunlight footprint, with COB LED lighting to supplement the sun and compensate for short days or cloudy weather.

Just kicking around some ideas...


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## verticalgrow (Dec 11, 2015)

g'day tty,
are u using any 3k cob's in ur new DIY LES lights?


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## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2015)

verticalgrow said:


> g'day tty,
> are u using any 3k cob's in ur new DIY LES lights?


Cree CXB3590 72V 3500K CD bin, driven at 50W apiece to get 56% efficiency. For each module, the four chips are spaced in pairs along the heat sink about two feet apart to get even light distribution over the design specified area, 3' x 2', at the desired intensity of 824PPfd. Four modules cover one 4' x 6' trellis panel and the whole system lights six such panels.

I'm stocking up on sunscreen!


----------



## verticalgrow (Dec 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Cree CXB3590 72V 3500K CD bin, driven at 50W apiece to get 56% efficiency. For each module, the four chips are spaced in pairs along the heat sink about two feet apart to get even light distribution over the design specified area, 3' x 2', at the desired intensity of 824PPfd. Four modules cover one 4' x 6' trellis panel and the whole system lights six such panels.
> 
> I'm stocking up on sunscreen!


LOL, I think ur gunna need a sombrero too 
epic set-up


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## blackforest (Dec 11, 2015)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> Sir i have seen lots of pounds TBH 10 years ago i was charged under international law and spent 8 years in jail for smuggling 100 kilo a week into USA 8 years dude so trust me i can look at a drying rack or plant and littterally say how much it is dried ..
> Guess that comes with being around it
> And TBH looking at that pic its know where close to 26 oz plant would you like me to show you what a 26 oz plant looks like ?? i assure you its much bigger and allot more buds takes a lot to make a pound
> and a pound and maybe a ew oz is what that plant is


Welcome to the world of rdwc asshole.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Dec 12, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> driven at 50W apiece to get 56% efficiency


56%? At 1.4 amps you're pushing them (the 72V) perfectly to 100% relative luminous flux.
I'm looking at page 11: http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds-CXB3590.pdf

Also, the test data on page 8 is set at 1.2 amps (72V).

If I'm reading the pdf data sheet correctly, I think you're setup is dead on.


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

blackforest said:


> Welcome to the world of rdwc asshole.


Right?!

The part that really bugs me about all this is that no one ever asks what the patients think.

Two thumbs up, just in case folks was curious- and that's all the feedback I need to hear!


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> 56%? At 1.4 amps you're pushing them (the 72V) perfectly to 100% relative luminous flux.
> I'm looking at page 11: http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds-CXB3590.pdf
> 
> Also, the test data on page 8 is set at 1.2 amps (72V).
> ...


Straight up; I'm not the builder, he's got all the exact part numbers. I spec'd the above, he's building it for me. As usual, there are a few aces up my sleeve.

It's a big step and as such it will not be shy about telling me where I went wrong!

On the other hand, I'm really looking forward to seeing how they run here. Everyone else who gets them raves about how they've stepped out of the Dark Ages and that they wouldn't go back to HPS at gunpoint, lol

Truth is I'm pretty sick n tired of HID, myself.


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Dec 12, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Truth is I'm pretty sick n tired of HID, myself.


Everything has its +'s and -'s


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Everything has its +'s and -'s


Well yeah. I'm the first to agree they're an improvement over burning torches.


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## a senile fungus (Dec 12, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Well yeah. I'm the first to agree they're an improvement over burning torches.


THEM'S FIGHTIN WORDS!!!!!!


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> 56%? At 1.4 amps you're pushing them (the 72V) perfectly to 100% relative luminous flux.
> I'm looking at page 11: http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds-CXB3590.pdf
> 
> Also, the test data on page 8 is set at 1.2 amps (72V).
> ...


I'm a go back n do my homework kinda guy and so I just looked into that pdf. I don't see what you were referring to?

Please enlighten me.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 12, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Haters are people with no imagination, who upon seeing something outside of their experience, decide to call it a lie instead of investigating further. They get angry when called out on the irrationality of their reaction, hence the term 'hater'.
> 
> It's about goddamned time I grew a big plant. I've only been trying to do it for five years now...
> 
> ...


I'm new to this or any other forum for that matter. However, I did find the ignore button and it works. I've been taking some notes and now that I'm done studying the state regs, I'm going to start studying these new light systems.


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

I'm going to throw some shit against the wall and see what sticks. There's a lot more to building a complete system around a big array like this than may first appear. I'm applying some novel approaches to basic problems and no matter where it leads me, I'm sure there will be plenty to learn.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 12, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm going to throw some shit against the wall and see what sticks. There's a lot more to building a complete system around a big array like this than may first appear. I'm applying some novel approaches to basic problems and no matter where it leads me, I'm sure there will be plenty to learn.


 I have heard it said somewhere,"The journey is sometimes more important than the final destination" . Being a student of art I've learned as much about techniques from art history as from art class. One thing about knowledge, only senility can take it away from you.


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 12, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I have heard it said somewhere,"The journey is sometimes more important than the final destination" . Being a student of art I've learned as much about techniques from art history as from art class. One thing about knowledge, only senility can take it away from you.


Dude dont ya know senility never happens if you intake enough of this beautiful plant? No I'm not joking


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 12, 2015)

I should be O.K then I'm going to try to smoke all this, but I may need some help.


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I should be O.K then I'm going to try to smoke all this, but I may need someView attachment 3563300 help.


Me! Me! Pick me!


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 12, 2015)

Ya know, I had said that I had never grown vertical but I found a couple of old photos that proved me wrong. I didn't have a horizontal hood.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 12, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Me! Me! Pick me!


I was saving the hash for us.


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 12, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I should be O.K then I'm going to try to smoke all this, but I may need someView attachment 3563300 help.


Fuck yeah, my type of mf'er!!!! Ha ha.


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 12, 2015)

@ttystikk what am I gonna do with all those plants on my roof? Gonna smoke, vape, hash, edible them all and try to cram it all down but even I know thats not feasible for 1 person so will share with 2 more . My younger brother says that I consume weed like heavy smokers do cigarettes and its true I guess. Like I tell my wife, I am never sick, must be doing something.....


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 12, 2015)

Weed brings out the best in me, I once had this ex girlfriend tell me that weed was going to make me impotent if I kept smoking so much. Must be the reason I had 2 girls.


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## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> @ttystikk what am I gonna do with all those plants on my roof? Gonna smoke, vape, hash, edible them all and try to cram it all down but even I know thats not feasible for 1 person so will share with 2 more . My younger brother says that I consume weed like heavy smokers do cigarettes and its true I guess. Like I tell my wife, I am never sick, must be doing something.....


He's got an encyclopedia marijuana growing on his patio, all but filling the penthouse suite of an apartment building...

And he's asking ME for tips on how to get higher? LOL

Welllllll.... come to think of it, I got pretty ripped when I smoked a joint right after scuba diving. Something to do with the pressure change, I was told. Clueless as to why it works, but I was blazed!


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> He's got an encyclopedia marijuana growing on his patio, all but filling the penthouse suite of an apartment building...
> 
> And he's asking ME for tips on how to get higher? LOL
> 
> Welllllll.... come to think of it, I got pretty ripped when I smoked a joint right after scuba diving. Something to do with the pressure change, I was told. Clueless as to why it works, but I was blazed!


Always testing over here, ya know


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## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Weed brings out the best in me, I once had this ex girlfriend tell me that weed was going to make me impotent if I kept smoking so much. Must be the reason I had 2 girls.


I think Viet girls are the hottest ever. I like how many of them actually enjoy seeing heels... think they might like an old hippie roundeye who just wants to grow weed on his balcony?


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## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Always testing over here, ya know


Quite right! Testing the bubblegum- again, just to be sure- even as we chat!


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I think Viet girls are the hottest ever. I like how many of them actually enjoy seeing heels... think they might like an old hippie roundeye who just wants to grow weed on his balcony?


Well I look in the mirror each day here. Probably that answers your question . Wifes from as far south as you can go without swimming Ca Mau.


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2015)

Since I started growing now that I think about it, about the time I quit hanging at the pub, I started testing everyfkn thing. If you dont test you must believe it on google eh.


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## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2015)

I test everything; common sense, my luck, people's patience...


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2015)

Before I just did as all the sheeple did though I didnt ever really follow. Make my own path now


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## m4s73r (Dec 13, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> I should be O.K then I'm going to try to smoke all this, but I may need some[ help.


Nice!


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 13, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Nice!


I came off of these.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 13, 2015)

He


m4s73r said:


> Nice!


Here is a closer one.


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## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Always testing over here, ya know


Also, smoking weed on the chairlift at a Colorado ski resort is a time honored tradition, and may also have something to do with a pressure change; most of our ski resorts are over 8000' and the chairlift only goes higher...

OTOH, when I fly down to sea level it seems like everybody's weed is weak for a day or two. I have trouble getting high, unless my tolerance is zero.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> He
> 
> Here is a closer one.View attachment 3563410


Gorgeous color, nice frost on an outdoor plant!


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 13, 2015)

That is allegedly a GS Thin Mint Phenutdoor the THC is low and CBD is negligible,( never done it indoor) but it's an easy keeper and I'll be using it in my art work. It's really tasty when cured right too Honestly tho, I' m starting to question the numbers a little. I feel like lower THC strains seem more stony than some of the higher ones.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 13, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Before I just did as all the sheeple did though I didnt ever really follow. Make my own path now


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## ttystikk (Dec 14, 2015)

Today's news is that the rack that had a full two weeks in the new veg system before hitting the bloom trellis is doing extremely well; three gallons per plant per day well! Judging by feed, it's the strongest run yet. CO² supplementation is clearly helping as well, my mind boggles at what the COBs will be like!


----------



## Oregon Gardener (Dec 14, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Today's news is that the rack that had a full two weeks in the new veg system before hitting the bloom trellis is doing extremely well; three gallons per plant per day well! Judging by feed, it's the strongest run yet. CO² supplementation is clearly helping as well, my mind boggles at what the COBs will be like!


Will this be the first run under new lights? New Tech?


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## ttystikk (Dec 14, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> Will this be the first run under new lights? New Tech?


Nope- still waiting for their arrival. This is a run to prove that everything ELSE works properly before the big show.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Dec 15, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Nope- still waiting for their arrival. This is a run to prove that everything ELSE works properly before the big show.


Good move. Good point to make. Many people make too many changes at once. If there's a problem it's hard to trace down the fault because too many changes were made.
With a dialed in system, making small changes makes it easy to watch for problems.

If you only change one thing - you know what caused the problem/change.


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## m4s73r (Dec 15, 2015)

Curiosity killing me here looking forward to seeing it set up.


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## lawlrus (Dec 16, 2015)

I don't know how I missed this before, this is killer dude. I'm signing in for sure.


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## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2015)

lawlrus said:


> I don't know how I missed this before, this is killer dude. I'm signing in for sure.


Just chillin' over here, not trying to make a lot of waves... yet.


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## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2015)

The change in the season has affected my cloning. Poor things have all but stalled. Any ideas? 

I'm cold, too. I'm going to eat hot sausages for dinner and then sit in the hot tub until I'm parboiled. 

Sitting in my veg room writing this because it's 77 in here and 67 upstairs!


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> The change in the season has affected my cloning. Poor things have all but stalled. Any ideas?
> 
> I'm cold, too. I'm going to eat hot sausages for dinner and then sit in the hot tub until I'm parboiled.
> 
> Sitting in my veg room writing this because it's 77 in here and 67 upstairs!


just out of curiosity whats the temp of the water in cloner?


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## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> just out of curiosity whats the temp of the water in cloner?


Low 70s. In summer it was upper 70s.


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Low 70s. In summer it was upper 70s.


Plants know. Similar to following the moon phases indoors as well....Do you follow planting your girls by the moon? I started doing so my second set this year and gotta say, pretty mf accurate! People havent been following moon/sun for infinite years for nothing.


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 16, 2015)

Can you bring your cloner temp up a few pts and see if they respond?


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## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Can you bring your cloner temp up a few pts and see if they respond?


I was brainstorming ways to do that without cooking the rest of the room, haven't settled on anything yet.


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I was brainstorming ways to do that without cooking the rest of the room, haven't settled on anything yet.


hmmm ok, what are you cloning in? can you rig up a circulation line with valves on both sides? Not sure what I am looking at?


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## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2015)

It's an aero cloner. Nothing too fancy. There is a lot of potential heat nearby with half a dozen magnetic ballasts, but they're only on half the time.


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## abe supercro (Dec 17, 2015)

I'm trying to imagine these new _*oval green panels*_, on wheels, the complete layout in relation to the bulbs. I'd like to come up w some specs based on using 2 rows of staggered(?) 600s, bare bulbs or perhaps a few cool tube hoods (without reflectors) on the upper tier. could i get (4) x 600 within (2) 6' to 8' panels? 

this wld be good for a 1 bedroom grow as not everyone has the option of a separate structure or a basement. in a small room, one panel cld become the entire wall and the other only need mobility; not 2 or 3 panels, just one moving panel for simplicity, yet having access. maybe the center bulbs need to move easily too to shape stationary espalier. im assuming end panels aren't necessary as plants arc to fill-in and eat up available light.


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## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2015)

@abe supercro Lots of interesting ideas! I'll address them in no particular order. First, placing a panel against the wall will hurt air circulation badly, not recommended. You'll end up with PM and worse buried in there, the canopy really thrives on airflow.

Second, wheels only make sense with soil or similar, RDWC gets in the way. I made doorways and aisles inside to get around and work the plants. It was okay.

Third, the whole reason the silo was round to begin with was to manage the lamp to leaf distance and thus enhance efficiency. Leaving big gaps defeats the purpose.

The oval shape was adopted to create a six panel shape from the original silo. Now there's room for at least two columns of lighting. I installed five 860CDM lamps in an X pattern and would be happy with them except they LIE! Between them and the recommended ballast, I'm actually pulling 1100W for each lamp. I was so pissed off I made the decision to go COB LED... exclusively.

Another interesting finding was that the flat panels did a lot better than the curved ones and a closer inspection revealed why; the thicker the canopy on the curved panel, the less surface area it presents to the light, resulting in excessive crowding and shading.

If your plan is to use 600W lamps I think that could work very well, with the following caveats; try to maintain at least 30W/ft^2 and strive to build only one layer of plants on the trellis.


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## texasjack (Dec 17, 2015)

Good stuff. I am monitoring this thread.


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## zep_lover (Dec 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> It's an aero cloner. Nothing too fancy. There is a lot of potential heat nearby with half a dozen magnetic ballasts, but they're only on half the time.


buy a heat mat and put it under the cloner.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> It's an aero cloner. Nothing too fancy. There is a lot of potential heat nearby with half a dozen magnetic ballasts, but they're only on half the time.


What the poster said about the moon kinda made me stop and think about some Scooby Doo mysteries that I have had with cloning.  I have had them just sit there, and then explode. Albeit some strains clone harder than others, but I pretty much been cloning the same two strains for several years. Other stuff comes from trades and such. I have in desperate moments, added a dash of Liquid Karma into the res and they took off. if my tips get icky or scab up, on occasion will re-cut.( I keep moms so most of the time I just cut new) With rock wool, I would put more root hormone in the cube. I have cloned thousands of mj clones. Also I have cloned tens of thousands of miniature roses as I was the bust ass labor do all for a propagator. I have never seen a ghost but I have noticed some strange phenomenon with plants. I think I'm going to break down and buy a calendar. Anyway I like these two products. Don't read the label or you won't want to put it on your plants LoL. The Clonex in my opinion is best over all, but if you are working with hard cuttings the other stuff soaks in better. That's my 2 cents.Good luck. O.G.


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## elkamino (Dec 17, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


> Do you follow planting your girls by the moon? I started doing so my second set this year and gotta say, pretty mf accurate!


Accurate? What do you mean, accurate in what way?


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## dodacky (Dec 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I was brainstorming ways to do that without cooking the rest of the room, haven't settled on anything yet.


this past of the world where I am gets low temps all year round. ive got a diy aeroclone and never had much luck. a mates using it at the moment and placed a small aquarium heater in bottom and has worked wonders. just set the temp and itll keep it constant


----------



## abe supercro (Dec 18, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Another interesting finding was that the flat panels did a lot better than the curved ones and a closer inspection revealed why; the thicker the canopy on the curved panel, the less surface area it presents to the light, resulting in excessive crowding and shading.
> 
> If your plan is to use 600W lamps I think that could work very well, with the following caveats; try to maintain at least 30W/ft^2 and strive to build only _one layer of plants on the trellis._


six panels ok, well gonna consider two panel lengths, not angled. good point about more air! . ive gotta read back into this thread before '16. one layer design


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 18, 2015)

elkamino said:


> Accurate? What do you mean, accurate in what way?


As in growth, rooting, etc etc etc


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Dec 18, 2015)

I always plant my seeds when the Moon of Earth exists, personally. Works great!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I always plant my seeds when the Moon of Earth exists, personally. Works great!


One of the reasons I like your posts so much is that you're a fuckin' smart-ass, JUST LIKE ME!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Dec 18, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> One of the reasons I like your posts so much is that you're a fuckin' smart-ass, JUST LIKE ME!


We totally got off on the wrong foot when I first signed up, but I respect the hell out of someone such as yourself who can engage in critical thinking without having to carry their ego around everywhere. Most of us carry it around most of the time, but it is good to know when to put it away, and I've seen you do it more than once. "Mad props" as the kids say.

I also edit everything I post an average of 5 times, probably. It helps make me sound smarter and be funnier than I actually am.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2015)

abe supercro said:


> six panels ok, well gonna consider two panel lengths, not angled. good point about more air! . ive gotta read back into this thread before '16. one layer design


All of my panels, curved or not, are 4' wide x 6' tall. I'm going to flatten those used for the COB array so they're all straight. 

Ive had a few people suggest I create a round light emitting tower of some sort for the Super Silo, but as I mentioned above, its shape was there for the specific reason of catching and utilizing light from an omnidirectional light source. 

COBs are directional, so the round shape no longer makes sense. Also, since 98% of all indoor spaces have square corners, I'd rather declare the Super Silo obsolete than continue on a pointless quest to pound round units into square holes.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> We totally got off on the wrong foot when I first signed up, but I respect the hell out of someone such as yourself who can engage in critical thinking without having to carry their ego around everywhere. Most of us carry it around most of the time, but it is good to know when to put it away, and I've seen you do that. "Mad props" as the kids say.
> 
> I also edit everything I post an average of 5 times, probably. It helps make me sound smarter and be funnier than I actually am.


We did, but as I recall we got over ourselves fairly quickly. Anyway, no hard feelings here. 

I too know the power of the edit. It is a force for good- if used wisely.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Dec 18, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> We did, but as I recall we got over ourselves fairly quickly. Anyway, no hard feelings here.
> 
> I too know the power of the edit. It is a force for good- if used wisely.


Oh yeah we both calmed down pretty quick! I have been playing with some grow software ideas, we should talk again soon. Sunday, maybe?


----------



## m4s73r (Dec 18, 2015)

Awww (sniff sniff) guuuuys thats so cute. Now kiss him. Go ahead, stick your tongue down his throat, ill wait. LOL I kid.


----------



## mr sunshine (Dec 18, 2015)

Smells like fucken dank in here, Good shit brother.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Awww (sniff sniff) guuuuys thats so cute. Now kiss him. Go ahead, stick your tongue down his throat, ill wait. LOL I kid.


Right. Admit it, you're just jealous!


----------



## m4s73r (Dec 18, 2015)

That i cant watch....


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2015)

My HVAC guy and I have a date to go look at hot water baseboards tomorrow. The hot side circuit has been tested and warmed 45 gallons of water from 54 degrees to 80 in less than twenty minutes. I have a 75 gallon domestic hot water storage tank with natural gas backup to install, I think the heat pump will do just fine keeping it warm, along with everything else!


----------



## doctor G (Dec 23, 2015)

Nice plants mate good work where's the haters at, some people just can't wrap their head around big girls


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2015)

doctor G said:


> Nice plants mate good work where's the haters at, some people just can't wrap their head around big girls


True that. Thank you for the kind words!


----------



## letdown shifty (Dec 23, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> So that bubblegum from a page or two back, 'the hydra'? This one;
> View attachment 3557681 View attachment 3557682
> 
> Well, I'm afraid I was wrong when I said that she might be a pound and a half.
> ...


So..... My question is, who is the girl in picture in relation to you? And can she talk/mentor my wife into helping me grow? Good looking plants buddy.
-Shifty


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2015)

letdown shifty said:


> So..... My question is, who is the girl in picture in relation to you? And can she talk/mentor my wife into helping me grow? Good looking plants buddy.
> -Shifty


I'm afraid that my expertise only extends to the female of the cannabis species, lol

Maybe if you tell your wife that she could probably do it better than you... Straight up, I do not know why but women seem to be better at plant husbandry. 

Thanks for the good word, brother!


----------



## letdown shifty (Dec 23, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm afraid that my expertise only extends to the female of the cannabis species, lol
> 
> Maybe if you tell your wife that she could probably do it better than you... Straight up, I do not know why but women seem to be better at plant husbandry.
> 
> Thanks for the good word, brother!


She knows that would be a lie, as she kills your average house plant. heh, green thumb she has not.


----------



## letdown shifty (Dec 23, 2015)

This pic was taken flower day 10, how much thicker you think it will get?-Shifty


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2015)

letdown shifty said:


> This pic was taken flower day 10, how much thicker you think it will get?View attachment 3570889-Shifty


No clue!


----------



## whitebb2727 (Dec 23, 2015)

abe supercro said:


> six panels ok, well gonna consider two panel lengths, not angled. good point about more air! . ive gotta read back into this thread before '16. one layer design


Draw two x's with a light on the outside and middle of the x.

+ is a light x would be a panel built like an x.

+x+x+. Would be an example. Or a full row.
+x+x+x+x+x+x . You do multiple rows.
X+x+x+x+x+x+
+x+x+x+x+x+x. Like rows of diamonds. Vertical grow with lights on both side.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Dec 23, 2015)

It would work great with lec you were using and with cobs just build a square tower and turn it to fit in the diamonds.


----------



## abe supercro (Dec 23, 2015)

whitebb2727 said:


> It would work great with lec you were using and with cobs just build a square tower and turn it to fit in the diamonds.


I still have no experience w any LEDs or cobs, so perhaps your design is perfect for an led application. my design would employ 600 watt hi intensity bulbs, because that's what I'm accustomed to. I'm open to learning about led as the price for acquiring them decreases.



whitebb2727 said:


> Draw two x's with a light on the outside and middle of the x.
> 
> + is a light x would be a panel built like an x.
> 
> ...


I do like the idea of staggering lights, but I was thinking more along the lines of one plane of lights, bulbs alternating evenly, but only in one lengthy row in the center. This would provide tremendous focused intensity w all the light overlap.


Ok, the other day I sat down to sketch things out a bit and I immediately saw the need to have end panels, to get the extra root systems involved to bump yield. I think the plants wld still stretch at the ends to wrap into available light, but without the extra outside root systems it just wouldn't be as productive.

I'm imagining the end panels as perhaps smaller w less plants and at least one end wld be slightly more open for access.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Dec 23, 2015)

abe supercro said:


> I still have no experience w any LEDs or cobs, so perhaps your design is perfect for an led application. my design would employ 600 watt hi intensity bulbs, because that's what I'm accustomed to. I'm open to learning about led as the price for acquiring them decreases.
> 
> 
> I do like the idea of staggering lights, but I was thinking more along the lines of one plane of lights, bulbs alternating evenly, but only in one lengthy row in the center. This would provide tremendous focused intensity w all the light overlap.
> ...


I refined the idea.
 

Excuse the crude drawing. I sketched it quickly.


----------



## m4s73r (Dec 23, 2015)

So what is the foot print one cob covers at the proper distance for bloom?


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> So what is the foot print one cob covers at the proper distance for bloom?


'THAT DEPENDS'...

On the COB LED in question
On how softly it's driven
On the lens being used
On the distance from the canopy 

One CXB3590, driven at 50W, with a 90 degree lens, 16" from the canopy, will do a one square foot area very well and perhaps a bit more.


----------



## m4s73r (Dec 23, 2015)

Ok so that gives me some numbers to work with. So you said perhaps a bit more. so lets call it 14 sq. 
So doing it flat rather then a silo, against the wall. (assuming we mount the trellis to the wall) on a 72'' wall (+24'' for grow medium/system) across a 8 foot section. So a total of 30 cobs total to light a 6 foot high by 8 foot long wall. And in one 8 by 8 room thats 60 for 3 walls and 20 for one wall accounting for a door way into the room. 
So 80 cobs total for that room. 
Damn. 4000 watts of LED.

that would be pricey. lol


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 24, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Ok so that gives me some numbers to work with. So you said perhaps a bit more. so lets call it 14 sq.
> So doing it flat rather then a silo, against the wall. (assuming we mount the trellis to the wall) on a 72'' wall (+24'' for grow medium/system) across a 8 foot section. So a total of 30 cobs total to light a 6 foot high by 8 foot long wall. And in one 8 by 8 room thats 60 for 3 walls and 20 for one wall accounting for a door way into the room.
> So 80 cobs total for that room.
> Damn. 4000 watts of LED.
> ...


They'll do over 800 PPfD on 1.5sq ft. I'll run 16 of these same COBs over a 4x6 trellis panel. Therefore, your 6x8 panel would need 32, and yeah. Then again, it will be cool, bright and run just about forever!


----------



## Oregon Gardener (Dec 24, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I always plant my seeds when the Moon of Earth exists, personally. Works great!


I don't know why I like it either, but I do. Anyway, I took off both shoes, counted backward, and came up with Nov 20th or so for germination on the O.C. The 25th was a* Full Beaver Moon.* I don't know what that is either, but I'm sure I don't want to let another pass without further investigation. Anyway, I have to report first that from F-1s I'm getting Males and females and different phenotypes but excellent growth, The seed bank seeds cracked on or about the 26th; mostly fem, very uniform, and in my opinion also having an excellent start. So I'm right there. This will be known as the_* Full Beaver Moon Grow. *_I believe I'm going to have to figure out how to post a grow diary now. LoL 


eptember 27th Full Harvest Moon 10:50 pm
October 27th Full Hunter's Moon 8:05 am
November 25th Full Beaver Moon 5:44 pm
December 25th Full Cold Moon 6:11 am
9 more rows
*Full Moon Dates & Times - Farmers' Almanac*
farmersalmanac.com/*full*-*moon*-*dates*-and-times/


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 24, 2015)

Definitely gotta investigate that full beaver moon at my earliest opportunity. 

Beavers and moons, two of my favorite things!


----------



## m4s73r (Dec 24, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> They'll do over 800 PPfD on 1.5sq ft. I'll run 16 of these same COBs over a 4x6 trellis panel. Therefore, your 6x8 panel would need 32, and yeah. Then again, it will be cool, bright and run just about forever!



Yeah way too rich for my blood. But, If i was an investor looking at it for a business maybe. I would be able to get them cheaper in a bulk situation.

Here is the thing, at the light amount your talking about, wouldnt it just be better to grow them outside? Spend that money putting up a greenhouse. As legalization comes to all the states, why would you grow indoors anymore? I know I wouldnt, the only reason id have a grow indoors is to preveg my plants before spring arrived.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 24, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Yeah way too rich for my blood. But, If i was an investor looking at it for a business maybe. I would be able to get them cheaper in a bulk situation.
> 
> Here is the thing, at the light amount your talking about, wouldnt it just be better to grow them outside? Spend that money putting up a greenhouse. As legalization comes to all the states, why would you grow indoors anymore? I know I wouldnt, the only reason id have a grow indoors is to preveg my plants before spring arrived.


Indoor growing will always have a place. Outdoor will never have the consistent quality of indoor.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 24, 2015)

And one more thing outdoor has that indoor won't. 

POLLEN, whether you like it or not.


----------



## letdown shifty (Dec 24, 2015)

@ttystikk that and when you get rid of the controlled box, you introduce a lot of variables. Indoor will always have a place. If you wanted to capture all the goodness of the sun, you could get a building with a roof that will open for sunlight. Many individual panels that also act as reflectors.
-Shifty


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 24, 2015)

letdown shifty said:


> @ttystikk that and when you get rid of the controlled box, you introduce a lot of variables. Indoor will always have a place. If you wanted to capture all the goodness of the sun, you could get a building with a roof that will open for sunlight. Many individual panels that also act as reflectors.
> -Shifty


Greenhouses are great for this. They'll be an excellent compromise in many climates.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 24, 2015)

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GREAT TOKE!


----------



## letdown shifty (Dec 24, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GREAT TOKE!


My girls decided to show their white for Christmas. Day 12


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2015)

Hillbilly Hobby, day 45


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2015)

And now... to the hot tub, a perfect vantage point from which to enjoy the rare Christmas Full Moon -

And to all, a good night!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 30, 2015)

My COBs will be here this weekend!


----------



## letdown shifty (Dec 30, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> My COBs will be here this weekend!


Sounds like a good New Years resolution. Going Green with the lighting, to grow some improved Green. Have a good one, and stay safe everyone.
-Shifty


----------



## lawlrus (Jan 2, 2016)

Looking good brotha


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jan 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My COBs will be here this weekend!


I hope when I interrupted you the other day you were installing them.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 2, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I hope when I interrupted you the other day you were installing them.


Lol no, just another day in the life lol


----------



## Fastslappy (Jan 5, 2016)

sponge mode ON ! 
thX 4 da invite


----------



## verticalgrow (Jan 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My COBs will be here this weekend!


g'day tty,
are u still gunna grow vert with new cob lights?


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 5, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> g'day tty,
> are u still gunna grow vert with new cob lights?


LOL 

Does the sun still rise in the east?


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 5, 2016)

U2 said it best; 

'Nothing changes on New Year's Day. 
All is quiet, it's underway...'


----------



## verticalgrow (Jan 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> LOL
> 
> Does the sun still rise in the east?


Right on man

Long live the vert


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 5, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> Right on man
> 
> Long live the vert


Y'all ain't seen nuthin' yet! 
The Force has been at work here...
MUAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## GroErr (Jan 5, 2016)

I'm smelling an announcement, perhaps with pics coming up? Hope things are progressing well for you on the new setup, cheers!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jan 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Y'all ain't seen nuthin' yet!
> The Force has been at work here...
> MUAHAHAHAHA!


Dont leave us hanging for long!!!


----------



## m4s73r (Jan 5, 2016)

No doubt. Ive been wondering myself.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 5, 2016)

GroErr said:


> I'm smelling an announcement, perhaps with pics coming up? Hope things are progressing well for you on the new setup, cheers!


I got lots to do before that. But I'll keep you posted.


----------



## borbor (Jan 11, 2016)

just spent a nice chunk of my morning reading every single post in this thread. It was a pleasure.
I have a house pretty much lined up for at least a year starting this may, with an owner that's cool with growing, a four bedroom in old town with just my brother as a roommate. We're definitely gonna do some "super silos"!

I've been thinking, it seems like buying and building cob fixtures (especially like yours!) might be a pretty large startup cost, and the 860 watt bulbs, being older tech and all, plus the fact that they waste like 20% of the power they pull from the wall, don't seem like a good option. I was thinking of setting up bare bulb 315w CMHs with remote ballasts, might be easier for anybody who wants to grow plants without learning how to build electronics or paying someone else to do it, since those things have nothing to do with gardening as the average gardener understands it. For a silo around 5 feet in diameter, how many would you do? I see you're using as many as 5 of the 860's, I would certainly hope that that wouldn't translate to 10 315s! If I were using more than 6 or 7 I'd probably just say screw it and do a scrog or something. Also, do you think I'd be doing better or worse with heat compared to the old 860's?


----------



## lawlrus (Jan 11, 2016)

borbor said:


> just spent a nice chunk of my morning reading every single post in this thread. It was a pleasure.
> I have a house pretty much lined up for at least a year starting this may, with an owner that's cool with growing, a four bedroom in old town with just my brother as a roommate. We're definitely gonna do some "super silos"!
> 
> I've been thinking, it seems like buying and building cob fixtures (especially like yours!) might be a pretty large startup cost, and the 860 watt bulbs, being older tech and all, plus the fact that they waste like 20% of the power they pull from the wall, don't seem like a good option. I was thinking of setting up bare bulb 315w CMHs with remote ballasts, might be easier for anybody who wants to grow plants without learning how to build electronics or paying someone else to do it, since those things have nothing to do with gardening as the average gardener understands it. For a silo around 5 feet in diameter, how many would you do? I see you're using as many as 5 of the 860's, I would certainly hope that that wouldn't translate to 10 315s! If I were using more than 6 or 7 I'd probably just say screw it and do a scrog or something. Also, do you think I'd be doing better or worse with heat compared to the old 860's?


with something like 315s you would be able to damn near have budsites touching the bare bulbs without any ill effect I bet...could probably pump out a bunch of good dope in a small space with a few of those.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 12, 2016)

borbor said:


> just spent a nice chunk of my morning reading every single post in this thread. It was a pleasure.
> I have a house pretty much lined up for at least a year starting this may, with an owner that's cool with growing, a four bedroom in old town with just my brother as a roommate. We're definitely gonna do some "super silos"!
> 
> I've been thinking, it seems like buying and building cob fixtures (especially like yours!) might be a pretty large startup cost, and the 860 watt bulbs, being older tech and all, plus the fact that they waste like 20% of the power they pull from the wall, don't seem like a good option. I was thinking of setting up bare bulb 315w CMHs with remote ballasts, might be easier for anybody who wants to grow plants without learning how to build electronics or paying someone else to do it, since those things have nothing to do with gardening as the average gardener understands it. For a silo around 5 feet in diameter, how many would you do? I see you're using as many as 5 of the 860's, I would certainly hope that that wouldn't translate to 10 315s! If I were using more than 6 or 7 I'd probably just say screw it and do a scrog or something. Also, do you think I'd be doing better or worse with heat compared to the old 860's?


I calculated that I'd need over a dozen of the 315W CMH kits to properly light just one rack as you saw it. That's why I gave up on the idea! 

The bad news about COB LED is that it's one serious up front investment. The good news about COB LED is that you only have to make it once.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 13, 2016)

Introducing. ..

DJ Matthew Kays

https://m.mixcloud.com/djmatthewkays/


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 13, 2016)

Just so it does not go unsaid, Fort Collins is an awesome place; 

I'm bumpin' to my best friend's beats... 

I'm drinking a local brew, Pateros Creek Cache la Porter...

I smoke the local home grown... (mine!)

in locally blown glass. 

How's that for supporting the home team?


----------



## borbor (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm actually doing all those things all the time!, usually odell though, but none of that for tonight


----------



## m4s73r (Jan 13, 2016)

Well DAMMIT TTY. I see your post with new posts and you posted so im stoned and now excited to see this new set up and i click and i see NOTHING. lol.

Love Ft. Collins. But out of all the places i have lived in the USA, Manitu Springs will hold a special place in my heart. Love that little town.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 13, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> Well DAMMIT TTY. I see your post with new posts and you posted so im stoned and now excited to see this new set up and i click and i see NOTHING. lol.
> 
> Love Ft. Collins. But out of all the places i have lived in the USA, Manitu Springs will hold a special place in my heart. Love that little town.


I know, right? Shit is taking its sweet time getting here and getting set up, for sure! It's all still on its way... everybody swears, lol

Manitou is cool, for sure. I still wouldn't live in the Springs, just never dug the military town vibe.


----------



## m4s73r (Jan 13, 2016)

I get that. Part of why i proly wouldnt live in Colorado springs again. Nice thing about Manitou was it was quiet. And just far enough out that outside of tourist it was just locals. But back in the day, CS had a pretty cool underground goth scene. Then the emo's started and it all went away.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2016)

Chop day for the chunkiest Hillbilly Hobby yet. Keep in mind half of it's gone already;


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 14, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> I get that. Part of why i proly wouldnt live in Colorado springs again. Nice thing about Manitou was it was quiet. And just far enough out that outside of tourist it was just locals. But back in the day, CS had a pretty cool underground goth scene. Then the emo's started and it all went away.


manitou isn't like that anymore. you can't hardly find a parking spot on any summer weekend. and it gets even more traffic now that they have the only 2 rec dispensaries in the area.


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Chop day for the chunkiest Hillbilly Hobby yet. Keep in mind half of it's gone already;
> 
> View attachment 3585824


i wasn't sure if that was the name of the strain or what you call your growing passion. looking good! 

dirty martini or pickle juice martini tonite? that's my dilemma at the moment.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> i wasn't sure if that was the name of the strain or what you call your growing passion. looking good!
> 
> dirty martini or pickle juice martini tonite? that's my dilemma at the moment.


'Yes' is the answer to that. I wear my Hillbilly flag proud! 

Anything more than the fruit itself is dirty, so the question is olive dirty or pickle dirty? Personally, I save my pickle juice for bloody marys... Freudian implications be damned, lol


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 'Yes' is the answer to that. I wear my Hillbilly flag proud!
> 
> Anything more than the fruit itself is dirty, so the question is olive dirty or pickle dirty? Personally, I save my pickle juice for bloody marys... Freudian implications be damned, lol


i like the way you think errrrrr drink! cheers


----------



## m4s73r (Jan 14, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> manitou isn't like that anymore. you can't hardly find a parking spot on any summer weekend. and it gets even more traffic now that they have the only 2 rec dispensaries in the area.


That sucks, it used to be so cool. Is the guy that makes the bear with chainsaws still there?


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 15, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> That sucks, it used to be so cool. Is the guy that makes the bear with chainsaws still there?


yep, chainsaw guy is still there. we've bought about 5 or 6 for friends, out of town guests etc. at one point, there were a few chainsaw guys but i think he's the only one still going full time.


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Jan 15, 2016)

Yep Manitou is crowded like many of the other cool places in Colorado. The trick is to go at the right times (during the week) and avoid the weekends. Great place to be. There's a lot of energy in the area as well with the fault lines, minerals, and water springs that run through Pikes Peak and Mt Manitou.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 15, 2016)

Well back here in boring old Fort Collins, I got the rack cleaned out, turned over and new ladies installed. Day zero! Set your watch, she'll be done eight Fridays from today. 

I do like being able to pull a crop and stick another batch in its place in a matter of a few hours. Bloom rooms are some of the most costly real estate anywhere to maintain and operate, so the less downtime the better. Zero downtime is best of all. We do it every time.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jan 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Well back here in boring old Fort Collins, I got the rack cleaned out, turned over and new ladies installed. Day zero! Set your watch, she'll be done eight Fridays from today.
> 
> I do like being able to pull a crop and stick another batch in its place in a matter of a few hours. Bloom rooms are some of the most costly real estate anywhere to maintain and operate, so the less downtime the better. Zero downtime is best of all. We do it every time.


Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance; the 6 important P's


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 15, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance; the 6 important P's


my situation:

SNAFU

Situation Normal: All Fucked Up


----------



## m4s73r (Jan 15, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance; the 6 important P's


Proper planning prevents piss poor progress is another version Ive heard. My dad used to say, Piss poor planning upon your part doesn't constitute a emergency upon mine



WestDenverPioneer said:


> Yep Manitou is crowded like many of the other cool places in Colorado. The trick is to go at the right times (during the week) and avoid the weekends. Great place to be. There's a lot of energy in the area as well with the fault lines, minerals, and water springs that run through Pikes Peak and Mt Manitou.


Yeah but thats not really all that new. Although proly worse now then it was 10 years ago. 
We would do things during the week then go out of town on the weekends. But waking up in the AM and looking down and seeing the hotsprings was always cool. Then having the sun set over pikes peak. i could watch the chainsaw guy from my living room with a telescope. Id show him to guests. 


ttystikk said:


> Well back here in boring old Fort Collins, I got the rack cleaned out, turned over and new ladies installed. Day zero! Set your watch, she'll be done eight Fridays from today.
> 
> I do like being able to pull a crop and stick another batch in its place in a matter of a few hours. Bloom rooms are some of the most costly real estate anywhere to maintain and operate, so the less downtime the better. Zero downtime is best of all. We do it every time.


Well shit, dont sound boring to me. Ft. Collins is where ill proly end up. My uncle lives there, and the company I work for recently opened a shop there. We have a sorta high turnover rate so i expect at some point i should be able to xfer to that one. Or i could end up in Aurora...


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 16, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> Proper planning prevents piss poor progress is another version Ive heard. My dad used to say, Piss poor planning upon your part doesn't constitute a emergency upon mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, you'd much rather be here than there. Trust me on this one.


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Jan 17, 2016)

Saudi Aurora is Denver's armpit. You don't want to be there.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Saudi Aurora is Denver's armpit. You don't want to be there.


WORD. And I got the first hand experience to prove it.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jan 17, 2016)

I am monitoring this thread.


----------



## m4s73r (Jan 17, 2016)

Well good to see nothing has changed there. Yeah, no desire to live in the denver area.


----------



## borbor (Jan 19, 2016)

what's wrong with the denver area?




oh yeah...


----------



## FoxFarmAnthony (Jan 19, 2016)

This thread got derailed. If you want a conversate about issues not in tune with the subject go to Facebook.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 19, 2016)

FoxFarmAnthony said:


> This thread got derailed. If you want a conversate about issues not in tune with the subject go to Facebook.


I'm the OP, the conductor of this train of thought, rolling on the shiny twin rails of vision and imagination, thundering into the future carrying a full load of dreams, intentions and hard work, the right of way carefully laid alongside the stream of consciousness...

Haters are invited to 'get off' at the next stop, the rest I welcome to join our journey into the as yet unknown, wherever it may take us!

...And do not get me started about FauxFarm. You have been warned, lol


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 19, 2016)

borbor said:


> what's wrong with the denver area?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, my. That does sum it up pretty well...


----------



## Fastslappy (Jan 19, 2016)

Denver was a armpit back in the 80'ies did catch Frank Zappa there & a Bronco/KC game the next day what fun
haven't been back since 
the ushers @ Red Rocks are assholes


----------



## m4s73r (Jan 19, 2016)

I use to go to concerts and such in Denver. But I'd never live there


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 19, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> I use to go to concerts and such in Denver. But I'd never live there


I like to keep Denver at arm's length; close enough to visit but out of the mess- so the hour drive to Fort Collins works fine to ensure separation, lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jan 19, 2016)

Haters......off the fucking train now, again, off the fucking train nowwwww!!!!!!!!!


----------



## m4s73r (Jan 19, 2016)

FoxFarmAnthony said:


> This thread got derailed. If you want a conversate about issues not in tune with the subject go to Facebook.


LMAO I like how some random person come in and tell the op to get back on topic. We have a winner here.


Vnsmkr said:


> Haters......off the fucking train now, again, off the fucking train nowwwww!!!!!!!!!


Someone lives in denver lol.


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Jan 20, 2016)

Fuck us and our Denver conversation. LOL Go Broncos 
Hey TTY it's obvious you aren't coming to Denver... I need to get in my truck and head up there...


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 20, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Hi Anthony, welcome to RIU. Behave like a gentlemen or we will feed you your nuts, thank you.


...with a smile!


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 20, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Fuck us and our Denver conversation. LOL Go Broncos
> Hey TTY it's obvious you aren't coming to Denver... I need to get in my truck and head up there...


I apologize most profusely for failing to make my requisite pilgrimage to Denver on a timely basis, for reasons that include some of those mentioned above! 

But yeah, you really should come up for a peek. Bring extra drawers, peep's pants have a habit of getting messy on the first tour.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 20, 2016)

In other news, got some of my components for the new install today, I'm happy! Things are coming together! The COBs will be here this weekend, 'for sure this time!' my guy says lol. It's all good, I've seen a sneak peek and I think they're even better than I hoped for... and I have high hopes!


----------



## texasjack (Jan 20, 2016)

borbor said:


> what's wrong with the denver area?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha wow okay. Reading while rapping...that's gangsta


----------



## texasjack (Jan 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I apologize most profusely for failing to make my requisite pilgrimage to Denver on a timely basis, for reasons that include some of those mentioned above!
> 
> But yeah, you really should come up for a peek. Bring extra drawers, peep's pants have a habit of getting messy on the first tour.


Diapers


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

texasjack said:


> Diapers


Bib for drool...


----------



## Fastslappy (Jan 21, 2016)

pix of drool stained shirt & pants of vistors Plz
you from Denver originally ?


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> pix of drool stained shirt & pants of vistors Plz
> you from Denver originally ?


Sorry, no pics cuz messy pants are not my kink. One seriously had a semi religious experience, tears streaming down her cheeks and all. 

I'm from a lot of places. I've also lived in Saudi Aurora, LittleTood and Westy- which was the best of the bunch. I grew up in Ft Collins and I'm back here now.


----------



## Fastslappy (Jan 21, 2016)

Air Force brat : born in Chy WY @ the AFB
been all the fuck over da place
& then I was a Dead Head followed the band for a few many years (hence Denver/Red Rocks reference )
I wass working @ a airline in Anchorage AK , the DEAD played a weekend I wuz there bro ! That went on for 10 years 
planned vacations around the Dead tours , got finally got laid off & sold tee shirts & Veggie pasta to hippes on tour for a few years my SS shows no income for those years , _I've been asked on job interviews if I had been in jail during those years =a no _
at the time the best weed was on tour ! 70-80'ies


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> Air Force brat : born in Chy WY @ the AFB
> been all the fuck over da place
> & then I was a Dead Head followed the band for a few many years (hence Denver/Red Rocks reference )
> I wass working @ a airline in Anchorage AK , the DEAD played a weekend I wuz there bro ! That went on for 10 years
> ...


Cheyenne is thirty miles from here. Nowadays the best weed is at my place! Well okay maybe not THE BESTEST EVER, but no one complains!


----------



## Feisty1UR (Jan 21, 2016)

texasjack said:


> Haha wow okay. Reading while rapping...that's gangsta


Looks like that guy outta district 9, guess he fell off


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jan 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Cheyenne is thirty miles from here. Nowadays the best weed is at my place! Well okay maybe not THE BESTEST EVER, but no one complains!


The best is always the stuff that's grown in your own house . Ask me I know


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

Gratuitous nuggetry pic o' the day;


----------



## Fastslappy (Jan 21, 2016)

Nice !


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> Nice !


Not bad for 34 days. Not sure why my fan leaves are turning early this time.


----------



## Fastslappy (Jan 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Not bad for 34 days. Not sure why my fan leaves are turning early this time.


feed me !


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jan 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Gratuitous nuggetry pic o' the day;
> View attachment 3590644


Fck yeah! I wish I could send you some smellovision of Dr Who and this 707 Headband has got some unbelieveable smells for something not yet 6 inches


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jan 21, 2016)

The Viet and Cambodian Sativas in veg have a piney puke scent, its weird (almost more natural to me though) and the 1 in flower has a sort of limey fresh smell to it


----------



## GrowUrOwnDank (Jan 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sorry, no pics cuz messy pants are not my kink. One seriously had a semi religious experience, tears streaming down her cheeks and all.
> 
> I'm from a lot of places. I've also lived in Saudi Aurora, LittleTood and Westy- which was the best of the bunch. I grew up in Ft Collins and I'm back here now.


Yo homie. Don't forget yo white trash roots in Little Rock Arky! 

GO RAZORBACKS! 

Peace and love.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> feed me !


They got a full change of 100 gallons of fresh nutrient solution 48 hours ago.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

GrowUrOwnDank said:


> Yo homie. Don't forget yo white trash roots in Little Rock Arky!
> 
> GO RAZORBACKS!
> 
> Peace and love.


I was only there for three years some thirty long years ago and I'm proud to say I've never attended a Razorbacks game.

Those were all places I've lived in Denver.


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Jan 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> fan leaves are turning early


They look great but they do look hungry to me also.
What range does your pH run? I know you have this strain dialed in for years... but for whatever reason, the plant might be asking for a different pH. You just did a nute change, the Nitrogen should be available. Plants green up in no time at all. If it doesn't get better try *slight *changes to the pH. My hunch is that it wants slightly higher, more basic.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> They look great but they do look hungry to me also.
> What range does your pH run? I know you have this strain dialed in for years... but for whatever reason, the plant might be asking for a different pH. You just did a nute change, the Nitrogen should be available. Plants green up in no time at all. If it doesn't get better try *slight *changes to the pH. My hunch is that it wants slightly higher, more basic.


They're at 6.3. That's in RDWC. 

These girls might have had some challenges early in their cycle, and they came thru my veg before I made some changes to speed things up. They do not like to be kept waiting for their turn in the bloom room.


----------



## GrowUrOwnDank (Jan 21, 2016)

Been watching this thread a while bro. Mad respects.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

GrowUrOwnDank said:


> Been watching this thread a while bro. Mad respects.


Thank you, Sir!


----------



## m4s73r (Jan 21, 2016)

excited to hear about them cobs! Plants looking good too. Harvest is around this time next month?


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> excited to hear about them cobs! Plants looking good too. Harvest is around this time next month?


Three to four weeks depending on readiness, yes.


----------



## Desertboy (Jan 23, 2016)

Hi I wondered what kind of g/w yields are you getting from this? When I tried I really struggled to take more than ~ 25oz from a 600w but I was in coco not DWC I'm sure you say but there's 44 pages to go through very nice work read a fair bit of the thread but my head hurts now lol.

Also how long do you veg?

Thanks


----------



## zep_lover (Jan 24, 2016)

any cob porn yet?my lights have been sitting waiting.i do have one 4 cob bar in my veg cabinet now.plants are loving it.no room for the other 4 bars to be used yet


----------



## zep_lover (Jan 30, 2016)

when these girl scout cookies finish i am pulling the 2 600 hps out and going to do a horizontal scrog to test my new lights.i do not have room to try vert in this set up with the cobs.


----------



## elkamino (Jan 30, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> View attachment 3597623
> when these girl scout cookies finish i am pulling the 2 600 hps out and going to do a horizontal scrog to test my new lights.i do not have room to try vert in this set up with the cobs.


Whoa dude. I was zoomed in looking at how you'd mounted those vert sockets when I noticed that bigass trunk you got hiding in there!


----------



## zep_lover (Jan 30, 2016)

this one is even bigger.this is the left one in the big pic


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> View attachment 3597623
> when these girl scout cookies finish i am pulling the 2 600 hps out and going to do a horizontal scrog to test my new lights.i do not have room to try vert in this set up with the cobs.


Nice run. I hear you, gotta roll with the technology.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 2, 2016)

This is reclaim water from just the last 24 hours. It's about 12 gallons. That's a lot of transpiration!


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 2, 2016)

wheres the pics of the new lights?


----------



## Fastslappy (Feb 2, 2016)

I like the pix of the new water bucket


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 3, 2016)

A nice pair, Jillybean left, Hillbilly Hobby on the right;


----------



## thewanderer718 (Feb 3, 2016)

W


ttystikk said:


> A nice pair, Jillybean left, Hillbilly Hobby on the right;
> View attachment 3600120 View attachment 3600121


Wow !!!! Nice


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 3, 2016)

thewanderer718 said:


> W
> 
> Wow !!!! Nice


'About a pound'... each.


----------



## elkamino (Feb 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> A nice pair, Jillybean left, Hillbilly Hobby on the right;
> View attachment 3600120 View attachment 3600121


You run a 1000w MH in your flower room?!



ttystikk said:


> 'About a pound'... each.


Deeamn those are beautiful! You say a Pound each... of just those 2? What are they... 5+ feet tall?! 

Mind giving us a shot of the trunks of those beasts? I recently saw some very cool pipes made from hollow cannabis stems...! Can't wait til I have room to grow a tree big enough to carve a pipe from its stem!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 3, 2016)

elkamino said:


> You run a 1000w MH in your flower room?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the finish lamp, yes. The trellis is six feet tall, so that's how tall they are.


----------



## elkamino (Feb 3, 2016)

There's been so much talk of COBs in this thread, for some reason I thought you already had dumped the HID an had anLED setup going. Then I was further surprised to see an MH an not HPS, since i perceive you as a stickler for efficiency. All good man your style is clearly well thought out and dialed! 

Do you finish with the MH to increase trich coverage? Speed finish times? 1 week? 2?


----------



## newgrower89 (Feb 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This is reclaim water from just the last 24 hours. It's about 12 gallons. That's a lot of transpiration!
> View attachment 3599632


I'm sitting here wondering what that water tastes like lol. I would think the plant purifies it. Hmmm lol


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 3, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> I'm sitting here wondering what that water tastes like lol. I would think the plant purifies it. Hmmm lol


I tastes like nothing. Flat, even. There's no dissolved mineral load at all. You don't want to put a pH meter in it, you'll screw up some of them. EC 0.0


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 3, 2016)

elkamino said:


> There's been so much talk of COBs in this thread, for some reason I thought you already had dumped the HID an had anLED setup going. Then I was further surprised to see an MH an not HPS, since i perceive you as a stickler for efficiency. All good man your style is clearly well thought out and dialed!
> 
> Do you finish with the MH to increase trich coverage? Speed finish times? 1 week? 2?


The high Kelvin MH is there for finish, that is, after the eight week bloom cycle is completed. It helps the plants frost up and swell, some get huge! Just weighed out a monster Hillbilly Hobby, it came to 25.5oz. That's within an ounce of the all time best, so our process is showing some signs of control. 

As to efficiency, I'm afraid I'm still running some rather inefficient 860W CDM lamps, at least until I get the light stands built for the new COB LED lights. They just got here and I'm hard at work getting them installed! 

Patience, young padawan. All will become clear in time.


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 6, 2016)

here is a pic of my cobs vegging.the second pic is the same plants stuck in one of my flower boxes after converting from vert with 8 cobs,my filter wouldnt allow me to run 12 cobs in there.4 foot by 4 foot.the ppk system has been really easy also.the plamts are gg4.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 6, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> here is a pic of my cobs vegging.the second pic is the same plants stuck in one of my flower boxes after converting from vert with 8 cobs,my filter wouldnt allow me to run 12 cobs in there.4 foot by 4 foot.the ppk system has been really easy also.the plamts are gg4.View attachment 3602432 View attachment 3602433


Tell me more about the ppk


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 6, 2016)

ppk has been a really easy hydro set up i learned about on icmag.it is a top fed hydro system that also uses a tail piece to wick water back up if the pump fails.it uses a perched water table so the roots do not sit in water and you have no need to chill the water.you use turface mvp as the preferred medium.delta9nxs is the guy who came up with it.it uses Jacks Hydroponic 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate for the nutrients.i have had six crops so far in it.the nutrients are very cheap and very little fussing with any of the system.


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 6, 2016)

the set up doesnt look that clean but considering twenty four hours earlier it was filled with 4 plants that were about 81/2 to 9 zips each vertical.if everything goes well the next box converted will be done with a much nicer looking screen set up.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 6, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> the set up doesnt look that clean but considering twenty four hours earlier it was filled with 4 plants that were about 81/2 to 9 zips each vertical.if everything goes well the next box converted will be done with a much nicer looking screen set up.


Lost you here, which box?


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lost you here, which box?


it is the same box.i took the vertical hydro set up out.built the horizontal hydro set up and set up the uneven and not tight screen after chopping the 4 plants . i was pretty tired after chopping.i didnt even try spreading out the gorilla glues very well.i like a clean set up but i was tired.you can see the mogul sockets for the hps hanging also.i did not want to have to light proof the cabinet again if i pulled them out.


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Feb 10, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> ppk has been a really easy hydro set up i learned about on icmag.it is a top fed hydro system that also uses a tail piece to wick water back up if the pump fails.it uses a perched water table so the roots do not sit in water and you have no need to chill the water.you use turface mvp as the preferred medium.delta9nxs is the guy who came up with it.it uses Jacks Hydroponic 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate for the nutrients.i have had six crops so far in it.the nutrients are very cheap and very little fussing with any of the system.


Why is that nutrient formula so low in N and high in K is it because of a high N medium?


----------



## Carolina Dream'n (Feb 10, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> Why is that nutrient formula so low in N and high in K is it because of a high N medium?


Because it uses calcium nitrate along with it. That provides the nitrogen.


----------



## elkamino (Feb 10, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> also uses a tail piece to wick water back up if the pump fails


Interesting... can you post a pic of that?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> Why is that nutrient formula so low in N and high in K is it because of a high N medium?


As @Carolina Dream'n said, the balance of the nitrogen comes from calcium nitrate. My bloom formula; 

2g/gal calcium nitrate, 15.5-0-0(-19)
2g/gal 5-12-26 mix with micros
1.5g/gal Epsom salt, aka magnesium sulfate heptahydrate 
.25-.5g/gal MKP, monopotassium phosphate, 0-52-32

....and NOTHING ELSE! LOL

Simple and stupid cheap. 

I'm open to constructive criticism of my ratios, however.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2016)

The panel is slowly but surely coming together. It will likely take the weekend to complete the assembly process and test everything.


----------



## rkymtnman (Feb 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The panel is slowly but surely coming together. It will likely take the weekend to complete the assembly process and test everything.


one bourbon, one scotch, one beer, one COB. and then repeat ad nauseum.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> one bourbon, one scotch, one beer, one COB. and then repeat ad nauseum.


Times 24? Nauseum would be right!


----------



## rkymtnman (Feb 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Times 24? Nauseum would be right!


first the nauseum and then the vomitorium.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> first the nauseum and then the vomitorium.


I prefer Dutch treats to Roman gorgies.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2016)

I sure hope this works. I kinda went all in.


----------



## a mongo frog (Feb 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I sure hope this works. I kinda went all in.


What works? The light?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> What works? The light?


The light is one component in a larger system. The system is what I'm hoping works to plan.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Feb 10, 2016)

Yo. Ttystikk. What up man?

All looks good.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Yo. Ttystikk. What up man?
> 
> All looks good.


Hey brother!


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 10, 2016)

elkamino said:


> Interesting... can you post a pic of that?


i will tomorrow when i get home.if you google ppk it will take you to icmag.there are a bunch of good threads with pics and an explantion how it all works.i have only completed 6 grows using the ppk and am still pretty new to it.i have only been using it for 4 and a half months.
delta9 is the inventor


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> i will tomorrow when i get home.if you google ppk it will take you to icmag.there are a bunch of good threads with pics and an explantion how it all works.i have only completed 6 grows using the ppk and am still pretty new to it.i have only been using it for 4 and a half months.
> delta9 is the inventor


I'm over there, too, and I've spoken with D9 and the rest of the ppk crew. I'd be using the Passive Plant Killer (lol) system myself if I could figure out how to make it portable!


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm over there, too, and I've spoken with D9 and the rest of the ppk crew. I'd be using the Passive Plant Killer (lol) system myself if I could figure out how to make it portable!


how portable?i load the clone in my 3 gallon tote and put in my veg cabinet.when it is ready i lift out the tote and put it in my flower cabinet.the bottom container and plumbing stay put.the system uses two containers and the top one with the plant is pretty easy to move.it works good.my plants coming out of veg are only 30 to 36 inches tall.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 11, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> how portable?i load the clone in my 3 gallon tote and put in my veg cabinet.when it is ready i lift out the tote and put it in my flower cabinet.the bottom container and plumbing stay put.the system uses two containers and the top one with the plant is pretty easy to move.it works good.my plants coming out of veg are only 30 to 36 inches tall.


I need to be able to tilt the root ball.


----------



## PKHydro (Feb 11, 2016)

@ttystikk 

So I've been reading through, but still can't grasp the new set-up. I get your switching over to cob lighting, and I think your getting rid of the round silo and going to flat panels?? 

Definitely interested in what you got going on. Have you put up any diagrams or pictures of the new room layout? I'm a visual type person. Hard to comprehend what's going on just through text.

Anyways you must be getting stoked to start running those cobs, it seems like it's been a long time coming!


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I need to be able to tilt the root ball.


how far do you need to tilt it?at what stage do you want to tilt it?turface is loose and doesnt clump up.i bend my plants over when they are small .i have to be careful or the whole plant then grows sideways.if you look at the stalks in the pics i posted that is why it looks it is coming almost sideways out of the turface.if you explain how far you tilt with how big a plant ,i can try it for you.i do not think it would be a problem..so far the system works great.post 866 and 867 in this thread show how my stalks are tilted.i only did that when they were maybe 8 to 10 inches high by bending the plant over and using a coat hanger wire to hold the plant down.i imagine a bigger plant would be a little harder to do since the roots would be filling the container more.


----------



## jronnn (Feb 11, 2016)

Carolina Dream'n said:


> Because it uses calcium nitrate along with it. That provides the nitrogen.


hey dude ii saw a post where you said you did 16 plants in 3x3s, what types of gpw were you getting? because i was thinking of doing 36 in a 6x3 but then thought 32 would probably be better, using 2 600w over each 3x6 (2 week old clones, the Al B. Fuct way) so i was just wondering what you were usually pulling per 3x3 if you don't mind telling. I'm also going to be lollipopping/pruning as well


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 11, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> @ttystikk
> 
> So I've been reading through, but still can't grasp the new set-up. I get your switching over to cob lighting, and I think your getting rid of the round silo and going to flat panels??
> 
> ...


That's because even at this late date, the details are still pretty fluid. 

The parts are just beginning to come together, and of course not everything is going quite to plan.


----------



## Carolina Dream'n (Feb 11, 2016)

jronnn said:


> hey dude ii saw a post where you said you did 16 plants in 3x3s, what types of gpw were you getting? because i was thinking of doing 36 in a 6x3 but then thought 32 would probably be better, using 2 600w over each 3x6 (2 week old clones, the Al B. Fuct way) so i was just wondering what you were usually pulling per 3x3 if you don't mind telling. I'm also going to be lollipopping/pruning as well


It was normally 1 gpw. Unless I just had a bad run. Plant numbers have a lot to do with the structure of the plants you're grow. 

A plant with no side branching will need more plants per tray. a plant that naturally bushes out will need less plants per tray. I'd say what I was growing was right in the middle of bushy and single cola.


----------



## jronnn (Feb 11, 2016)

Carolina Dream'n said:


> It was normally 1 gpw. Unless I just had a bad run. Plant numbers have a lot to do with the structure of the plants you're grow.
> 
> A plant with no side branching will need more plants per tray. a plant that naturally bushes out will need less plants per tray. I'd say what I was growing was right in the middle of bushy and single cola.


well with al b fuct, the point is the have clones with zero side branching then once the plants in flower make sure the lowe 1/3 of the plant has zero branching. you think id be better off doing that with 32 or 36? as far as yields go


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## PKHydro (Feb 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's because even at this late date, the details are still pretty fluid.
> 
> The parts are just beginning to come together, and of course not everything is going quite to plan.


I get it man, nothing like working the kinks out as you go. Well I'll be following along, waiting for the big unveil so to speak. Can't wait to see what you can do with the new setup.


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## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> how far do you need to tilt it?at what stage do you want to tilt it?turface is loose and doesnt clump up.i bend my plants over when they are small .i have to be careful or the whole plant then grows sideways.if you look at the stalks in the pics i posted that is why it looks it is coming almost sideways out of the turface.if you explain how far you tilt with how big a plant ,i can try it for you.i do not think it would be a problem..so far the system works great.post 866 and 867 in this thread show how my stalks are tilted.i only did that when they were maybe 8 to 10 inches high by bending the plant over and using a coat hanger wire to hold the plant down.i imagine a bigger plant would be a little harder to do since the roots would be filling the container more.


They need to tip over a full 90 degrees. 

I do like the system, tho.


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## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> I get it man, nothing like working the kinks out as you go. Well I'll be following along, waiting for the big unveil so to speak. Can't wait to see what you can do with the new setup.


So far, here's what we've got;

The modules; I had them made to my own specs, but the COBs and driver are completely standard fare; 4 x CXB3590 3500K CD bin 72V on a Meanwell HLG-185H-C700B. They run at 224W apiece with the dimming leads capped off, for 54W per COB and a whole 8W lost to driver inefficiency.

Depending on who's running the numbers, the combo is good for 56% efficiency and between 811 and 824PPfD delivered to 6 sq ft. I designed my modules to each light a 2x3' area as evenly as possible, so four of them will fit nicely together on my 4' x 6' trellis panels.

The Rack; Twenty four of these modules have been thusly arranged on a large rack stand bolted to the ceiling to light six trellis panels, three on each side. That makes the rack ten feet long and effectively floor to ceiling.

Work is continuing on getting the power situation sorted out, which brings me to a question for someone who knows his Meanwell COB drivers pretty well; I've heard about inrush current on initial startup being a problem, and that problem is magnified in large arrays to the point where it can trip circuit breakers that would ordinarily hold the load. How do I quantify this phenomenon so I can build the electrical service to handle it? @churchhaze @REALSTYLES , a lil help here?

Without knowing the limits, I've so far simply gone the route of overkill; 60A breaker on heavy gauge service wire to the rack! This for only 5400W, or [email protected]!

Anyone need to light a small town?

The RDWC; each leafy lady gets to dip her roots in a 27 gallon tuffbox, all connected together and to the control bucket with one inch lines and simple irrigation fittings. A copper heat exchange coil passes cold water through the control bucket, where a pump sits and pushes water through a manifold that delivers water to each tubsite right by the netpot. The resulting waterfall aerates and mixes the nutrient solution, doing away with air pumps, lines and stones altogether! Six tubs typically hold up to 100 gallons of nutrient solution, which is topped up as needed and changed halfway through.

A lot of this stuff has been running for some time now. For example, I designed and built this RDWC system several years ago.

A big visual change is that I used to run curved trellis panels in order to best control the distance between HID lamp and leaf. That turned out not to be a good idea, and in any case the upgrade to COB LED rendered the technique obsolete. So goes the Super Silo, may it rust into pieces... Now, the two rows of plants on flat panels look just like a hallway with really killer wall art! The upside is that I might finally be able to take a decent picture of it, lol!

The Chilling System; I'm upgrading to a 5 Ton chiller with hot gas recovery. This unit will provide both cold and hot water to my home and op. The cold water will service the heat exchange coil in the control bucket I mentioned, as well as the water cooled air handlers. These both cool the air and remove moisture by condensation. The hot water will provide dry heat for dehumidification, home heating, domestic hot water, garage heat, hot tub heat, a driveway ice melting system when it gets repoured, and who knows what else? Lol Hey, it's MY heat; I've already paid for it AND paid again to remove it from my grow, so it only makes sense that I get to do what I want with it! If all those things sound like great money savers, you are definitely paying attention.

There's much, much more to this whole hot mess, but that's the overview. Y'all have been caught up!

Feel free to heckle but bring your A game; everything is the way it is for good reasons, so it will take better ones for me to make changes. Frankly, that's meant more as an invitation for discussion and constructive debate than a challenge to a pissing contest. I'm all about implementing the best ideas and I give few fucks about where or who they came from.


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

ill bet theres a delay type dealio that can stagger start those drivers. if not break em down to two timers a minute apart


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## churchhaze (Feb 13, 2016)

I doubt inrush current will be any bigger of a problem than HPS ballasts. I'd just see how many you can put on the circuit reliably (guess and check). My setups are pretty small so I don't have real experience with this.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Feb 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> How do I quantify this phenomenon so I can build the electrical service to handle it


I doubt you're pulling enough amps to trip anything but a relay might be what you're looking for.


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> ill bet theres a delay type dealio that can stagger start those drivers. if not break em down to two timers a minute apart


Thought of this, might try it. Downside is that it's all 240V so the devices will be more expensive.


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> I doubt you're pulling enough amps to trip anything but a relay might be what you're looking for.


5400W = [email protected], plenty to trip a thirty amp breaker if initial inrush current spikes to double running load. This is a similar situation to running a large electric motor; spinning it up to speed pulls a very big initial spike in the amp draw, but once it's up to speed it draws relatively little. This is why there's always a capacitor on your AC unit, to provide a boost for that initial spike.


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I doubt inrush current will be any bigger of a problem than HPS ballasts. I'd just see how many you can put on the circuit reliably (guess and check). My setups are pretty small so I don't have real experience with this.


Hmmmmm. Wish I'd known that before I went to Home dePot! I'm kinda committed now.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Feb 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> [email protected]


Sorry I was thinking just for the LED lights. 22amps is for the entire system, right?


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Sorry I was thinking just for the LED lights. 22amps is for the entire system, right?


No Sir, that's just for about the Franklin's worth of CXB3590 chips, running at 54W each. It adds up!


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> I doubt you're pulling enough amps to trip anything but a relay might be what you're looking for.


the correct term for this application is 'contactor' (or more specifically a 'lighting contactor'). but yeah its a big ass relay

if youre concerned about current run your drivers at 240V and cut current in half. you'll gain 2% in driver efficiency and can run smaller wire size for the circuit as well

they do have serious inrush current and they recommend right on the datasheet only 2 or 3 drivers per 16A 230V circuit breaker (ive never actually seen a 16A circuit breaker maybe thats some weird lighting standard). id have to assume based on the normal current draw that you can put many more than 2 on a circuit


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

Worth noting for large installs

the 600W HLC-600H high current driver only draws 70A at inrush vs 55 for the 200W HLC-185H series

inrush on your 5400W project would be reduced to 630A vs 1485A by using the larger drivers (which are also slightly more efficient)


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

search 'delay contactor' on ebay youll find everything from new chinese solid state to old school used allen bradley/GE/square D etc.


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> the correct term for this application is 'contactor' (or more specifically a 'lighting contactor'). but yeah its a big ass relay
> 
> if youre concerned about current run your drivers at 240V and cut current in half. you'll gain 2% in driver efficiency and can run smaller wire size for the circuit as well
> 
> they do have serious inrush current and they recommend right on the datasheet only 2 or 3 drivers per 16A 230V circuit breaker (ive never actually seen a 16A circuit breaker maybe thats some weird lighting standard). id have to assume based on the normal current draw that you can put many more than 2 on a circuit


I am running them on 240V, and I have a lot more of them than just two or three, lol

They're on a dedicated power controller, Titan Helios 8, and the contactors are in there. We will see what we see, I guess. Maybe a slow trip breaker? Not sure that's safe.


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> search 'delay contactor' on ebay youll find everything from new chinese solid state to old school used allen bradley/GE/square D etc.


Contactor isn't the issue, it's the breaker.


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

Since they use capacitors on AC units with compressors for this kind of situation, might it also work for this application?


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> ill bet theres a delay type dealio that can stagger start those drivers. if not break em down to two timers a minute apart


This might be a really good solution. Can you help me figure out where to find such a critter?


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Contactor isn't the issue, it's the breaker.


your breaker can handle all the power you need for running. my opinion is when they say not more than 2 or 3 on a breaker they mean starting at one time (or that 16A should be reserved for starting.

sooo.. your 27 x 200W drivers for 5400W
each driver is 0.9A
lets 'reserve' 16A for two or 3 drivers to start at a time
lets stick to 30A circuits so we dont need to run anything over commonly available #10 wire

per 30A type C breaker:
16A of 'headroom' for starting 3 drivers at a time
14A of usable running power
15 drivers = 13.5A running
at this point you should be able to 'start' 3 more drivers

id start with that and push it. your overall load is [email protected] 1 30A circuit might do it

can you start 4 at a time without tripping? you'd start 4 drivers at T0 and then need 6 time delays to start the next 23

can you start 5? you'd start 5 drivers at T0 and then need 5 time delays to start the next 22

can you start 6? you'd start 6 drivers at T0 and then need 4 time delays to start the next 21

etc.


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Since they use capacitors on AC units with compressors for this kind of situation, might it also work for this application?


possibly. motor loads are different. your inrush current is prob a fraction of a second vs high loads for first second or two on a motor


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

heres your $8 contactor

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schneider-LC1D18M7C-LC1-D18M7C-AC220V-Contactor-NEW-/151577631216?hash=item234abb19f0:g:u1MAAOSwuTxV7ptQ

which uses the bolt-on delay timer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-LA2-DT2-Delay-timer-0-1-30S-use-to-LC1-D-AC-Contactor-/171604905068?hash=item27f4730c6c:g:edoAAOSwofxUl4IY

buy 4 of each of those for $64 and if it doesnt work, drop $32 on 2 more


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

very possible that you can start 6 out of the gate, 5 on the first or 2nd contactor, 4 on the 2nd or 3rd, etc


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## WestDenverPioneer (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> but yeah its a big ass relay


That's what I was implying but didn't know how else to say it. Good job elaborating on the other posts. Thank you.


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> your breaker can handle all the power you need for running. my opinion is when they say not more than 2 or 3 on a breaker they mean starting at one time (or that 16A should be reserved for starting.
> 
> sooo.. your 27 x 200W drivers for 5400W
> each driver is 0.9A
> ...


Dude, it would be helpful if we stick to what I'm using. So, let's stick to the 50A service. 

Each module pulls 225W, there are 24 of them. 

I'm having a lot of trouble with the idea that I need 16A to turn three on. I kick two on a 15A @ 120V all the time. I need someone with direct experience because this is getting a little far fetched.


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> heres your $8 contactor
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schneider-LC1D18M7C-LC1-D18M7C-AC220V-Contactor-NEW-/151577631216?hash=item234abb19f0:g:u1MAAOSwuTxV7ptQ
> 
> ...


Aha! A completely different animal than what I had in mind. I'll look into these.


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dude, it would be helpful if we stick to what I'm using. So, let's stick to the 50A service.
> 
> Each module pulls 225W, there are 24 of them.
> 
> I'm having a lot of trouble with the idea that I need 16A to turn three on. I kick two on a 15A @ 120V all the time. I need someone with direct experience because this is getting a little far fetched.



yeah gotta experiment brahski. sounds like the gear is in house so get crackin and report back


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> heres your $8 contactor
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schneider-LC1D18M7C-LC1-D18M7C-AC220V-Contactor-NEW-/151577631216?hash=item234abb19f0:g:u1MAAOSwuTxV7ptQ
> 
> ...


Are these strictly inline units? I'm envisioning cutting a power strip cord and installing, that simple.


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

ideally those mount on a din rail in a hoffman enclosure


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> ideally those mount on a din rail in a hoffman enclosure


More parts that sound essential but I had no idea existed, lol I think I need a glossary. 

Ok so these won't go inline then? Is the enclosure waterproof?


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

not waterproof at all

meant to be in an enclosure

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_rail

buy some of this and screw it to your wall

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-200mm-Length-Aluminum-U-Groove-C45-Switch-Meter-Slotted-DIN-Rail-/181976098499?hash=item2a5e9ee6c3:g:fdYAAOxy4fVTBzTr


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 13, 2016)

hoffman is a brand name, they make all kinds of nema rated enclosures from indoor non water resistant to outdoor watertight to explosionproof


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## ttystikk (Feb 13, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> not waterproof at all
> 
> meant to be in an enclosure
> 
> ...


I'm having occasional condensation problems, this is helpful.


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## ttystikk (Feb 15, 2016)

So I'm thinking about changing up my nutrient schedule a bit. Currently I'm doing a fresh 100 gallons of nutrient solution to start and 50 gallon topups as needed until a second and last changeout of 100 gallons at day 29, then a couple more 50 gallon topups until dilute time starts around day 50. This regimen usually sees a run using 400-450 gallons of nutrient solution and lots of water to maintain EC levels throughout. 

I'm thinking of doing changeouts every 2 weeks instead, with the occasional topups in between on an as needed basis. Not a lot of difference in total nutes used, but I'm thinking the ratios will be more consistent. 

Thoughts?


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## PKHydro (Feb 15, 2016)

I think that's a good idea man, I flush every two weeks. For that exact reason, I really start to second guess the NPK ratios in my nutrient solution. Who knows at what rate the plants are taking each of them up. 

I use GH flora series, so my nutrient solution is normally a dark purple. But there are some days when I go to do chores, and overnight the reservoir has gone from dark purple to completely clear, like it's just fresh water in there. 

When this happens I'm sure the ratios get thrown out of wack.


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 15, 2016)

naw that shits just food coloring

salts are salts and dont selectively break down


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## ttystikk (Feb 15, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> I think that's a good idea man, I flush every two weeks. For that exact reason, I really start to second guess the NPK ratios in my nutrient solution. Who knows at what rate the plants are taking each of them up.
> 
> I use GH flora series, so my nutrient solution is normally a dark purple. But there are some days when I go to do chores, and overnight the reservoir has gone from dark purple to completely clear, like it's just fresh water in there.
> 
> When this happens I'm sure the ratios get thrown out of wack.


I know N is always taken up quickly.


BOBBY_G said:


> naw that shits just food coloring
> 
> salts are salts and dont selectively break down


No, but it's well demonstrated the plants take up different nutrients at wildly different rates, for lots of reasons. This got me thinking.


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## WeeblesWobbles (Feb 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I know N is always taken up quickly.
> 
> 
> No, but it's well demonstrated the plants take up different nutrients at wildly different rates, for lots of reasons. This got me thinking.


You looked at Fred's? Interested in what you think...


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## ttystikk (Feb 15, 2016)

WeeblesWobbles said:


> You looked at Fred's? Interested in what you think...


Link?


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## WeeblesWobbles (Feb 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Link?


There's a whole movement at icmag that grows huge trees via vertical using Fred's. Sounds like up your alley.


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## ttystikk (Feb 15, 2016)

WeeblesWobbles said:


> There's a whole movement at icmag that grows huge trees via vertical using Fred's. Sounds like up your alley.


In the vertical section? I've been there for years...


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## ttystikk (Feb 15, 2016)

Maybe Fred's on another section?


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## WeeblesWobbles (Feb 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> In the vertical section? I've been there for years...


See a guy there delta9nxs of ppk fame. You guys seem to be kindred spirits.


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## ttystikk (Feb 15, 2016)

WeeblesWobbles said:


> See a guy there delta9nxs of ppk fame. You guys seem to be kindred spirits.


I've been through his thread, chatted him up, yes. They have a neat system, but I can't make it portable.


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## ttystikk (Feb 15, 2016)

I have to comment on the weather. It's been sunny and fifties to near 60 for better than a week, and right now, at 11:30pm on FEBRUARY 15th, it's currently 51 degrees. It was 63 today. 61 tomorrow. The thing I remember as winter in this very place from my childhood is simply nowhere to be found. 

Global warming? I'm leaning to yes, and not just because of the current (record) warm trend. It's because I can see and feel the difference between the winters of my youth and today. Granted I'm only a half century old, so I'm not exactly a walking long term weather station, but I see an unmistakable change. 

Without moving, I now live in what used to be northern New Mexico's climate.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I have to comment on the weather. It's been sunny and fifties to near 60 for better than a week, and right now, at 11:30pm on FEBRUARY 15th, it's currently 51 degrees. It was 63 today. 61 tomorrow. The thing I remember as winter in this very place from my childhood is simply nowhere to be found.
> 
> Global warming? I'm leaning to yes, and not just because of the current (record) warm trend. It's because I can see and feel the difference between the winters of my youth and today. Granted I'm only a half century old, so I'm not exactly a walking long term weather station, but I see an unmistakable change.
> 
> Without moving, I now live in what used to be northern New Mexico's climate.


The circle of life my friend. We are just speeding it up tremendously


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## ttystikk (Feb 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> The circle of life my friend. We are just speeding it up tremendously


That's one interpretation. Here's another; 
 
Dig this. It's uncommon for planetary temperatures to be this warm, and now things are tailing even further upward rather abruptly.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 16, 2016)

It going to be coined, the age of fire. nae ice age any longer. Its pretty sad that my whole life Ive listened to people talk about the damage we are doing, but its not slowed....only fucking speeded up. Its about how much money one can make these days, no matter how fast you fucking die. I saw an article this morning on rigzone as I was browsing "Scottish minister worries remaining North Sea oil wont be extracted".....Thats really all ^ the powers that be are concerned with....sad but true


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## ttystikk (Feb 16, 2016)

I wrote this in another thread and upon rereading it, I realized it belongs right here;

Actually, the guy who built my COB LED modules for me did a great job, considering the crazy bastard he had for a customer.

I got exactly what I wanted in a very reasonable time frame, considering the nature of my specifications.

Frankly, it was a fucking bargain, too. The first thing I did was reorder. The second thing I did was see to it he got a raise!

I'm chronicling my misadventures on my thread, in my sig line. There have been plenty... The most recent being throwing every unit but two onto a concrete floor. All were undamaged. No, really.

I can't wait until they're actually doing what they were designed for.


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## rocknratm (Feb 16, 2016)

would the guy who built yours take on new clients?
I'm not confident enough to build my own.... call me lame I guess

I agree about the weather. I'm only 28, but I can tell a difference, much milder winters and less stable weather patterns. They can call it el nino this year but aren't these things happening far more frequently? What caused that? (rhetorical, we did- well not us, them). 
I'm glad I don't have kids and worry for my niece and nephews future.


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## ttystikk (Feb 16, 2016)

rocknratm said:


> would the guy who built yours take on new clients?
> I'm not confident enough to build my own.... call me lame I guess
> 
> I agree about the weather. I'm only 28, but I can tell a difference, much milder winters and less stable weather patterns. They can call it el nino this year but aren't these things happening far more frequently? What caused that? (rhetorical, we did- well not us, them).
> I'm glad I don't have kids and worry for my niece and nephews future.


I'm a tourist on this planet, as is EVERYONE ELSE. Even Jesus. I inherited a world that was just slightly more wild than settled, and a half century later the balance has tipped so far in the other direction we've put the long term survival of our very own progeny in doubt.

The dizzying heights of self centered insanity!

I feel a great responsibility not only to advocate for a better future, but to use the tools and talents I've worked so hard to build throughout my life to help create it.

I realize I won't be around to benefit, but I will have the satisfaction of knowing I was on the right side of the future.

I could just as easily be building the cockroaches from the end of the world, instead.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm a tourist on this planet, as is EVERYONE ELSE. Even Jesus. I inherited a world that was just slightly more wild than settled, and a half century later the balance has tipped so far in the other direction we've put the long term survival of our very own progeny in doubt.
> 
> The dizzying heights of self centered insanity!
> 
> ...


What we have been in at least for the last 100 years, maybe even the last 1000 (though I dont believe what some historian tells me as its always been 1 sided) is what I call "the age of EGO". Ego is so fucked up that it only worries about oneself and not the whole picture. I know its a far fetched dream, but if everyone would stop, take a pause, get some weed in them (other much more than some), things would change....Any history that I see just proves to me more and more daily that humans are just dumb. To think that we are the smartest beings in this solar system is really another case of stupid ego.


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## ttystikk (Feb 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> What we have been in at least for the last 100 years, maybe even the last 1000 (though I dont believe what some historian tells me as its always been 1 sided) is what I call "the age of EGO". Ego is so fucked up that it only worries about oneself and not the whole picture. I know its a far fetched dream, but if everyone would stop, take a pause, get some weed in them (other much more than some), things would change....Any history that I see just proves to me more and more daily that humans are just dumb. To think that we are the smartest beings in this solar system is really another case of stupid ego.


There's a theory that the psycho active effects of a fungus that infects rye when it's damp actually caused first a famine due to bad weather and then the French Revolution. Rye ergot 'poisoning'?

The few have taken control of the means of production and control from the many, and of course they drive only towards a destination that suits their's, and not everyone's needs.


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## ttystikk (Feb 16, 2016)

Thanks for bringing up famine and disease! Seriously. I think that people who grow their own food in their homes or shipping containers are going to be the self sufficient of the future. Self sufficiency reduces the ability of outside interests to control their lives.

Returning the ability of the average person to feed themselves is a Great Leap Forward.

My grandfather died nearly a millionaire, yet he and his wife (who outlived him by nearly thirty years) maintained a large and productive garden throughout their retirement. They had both suffered through the Great Depression and were absolutely determined never to allow anyone to control their food supply again.

It is interesting what lessons from the past resurface when present events are seen in a new light.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There's a theory that the psycho active effects of a fungus that infects rye when it's damp actually caused first a famine due to bad weather and then the French Revolution. Rye ergot 'poisoning'?
> 
> The few have taken control of the means of production and control from the many, and of course they drive only towards a destination that suits their's, and not everyone's needs.


If ego werent in play no one would need to take control, ever. You know what I mean.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 16, 2016)

I am a firm believer in producing my own food certainly fruits, vegetables, & herbs. Yesterday my wife raided the lettuce varieties and was smiling ear to ear, that was nice to see. Those varieties arent normally grown here


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## ttystikk (Feb 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I am a firm believer in producing my own food certainly fruits, vegetables, & herbs. Yesterday my wife raided the lettuce varieties and was smiling ear to ear, that was nice to see. Those varieties arent normally grown here


I plan to retire in a luxury home of my own design that's a cross between a greenhouse and a bomb shelter. I wanna smoke bomb ass weed in a tornado.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I plan to retire in a luxury home of my own design that's a cross between a greenhouse and a bomb shelter. I wanna smoke bomb ass weed in a tornado.


Agreed! Future home built inside a greenhouse.
I like this one, http://ecowatch.com/2015/11/30/greenhouse-around-home/, but built out of something so strong it never moves (ie a bomb shelter)


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## ttystikk (Feb 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Agreed! Future home built inside a greenhouse.
> I like this one, http://ecowatch.com/2015/11/30/greenhouse-around-home/, but built out of something so strong it never moves (ie a bomb shelter)


Nah, not like that at all. 

I'm thinking of an earth sheltered greenhouse called a walipini. To build one, you dig a deep hole in the earth and put the dirt on the north side of the hole (obvi, switch for southern hemisphere), then cover the hole plus the side of the sloe you've created, and it will stay warm most of the winter. Shading and venting keeps it cool in summer. Why not build it bigger, place living spaces in the north side that's earth sheltered and enjoy the greenhouse as living space year round? 

Living spaces under earth would be extremely well protected.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Nah, not like that at all.
> 
> I'm thinking of an earth sheltered greenhouse called a walipini. To build one, you dig a deep hole in the earth and put the dirt on the north side of the hole (obvi, switch for southern hemisphere), then cover the hole plus the side of the sloe you've created, and it will stay warm most of the winter. Shading and venting keeps it cool in summer. Why not build it bigger, place living spaces in the north side that's earth sheltered and enjoy the greenhouse as living space year round?
> 
> Living spaces under earth would be extremely well protected.


I thought of the walapini as soon as I posted that.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2016)

Harvest pic of the day, Hillbilly Hobby;


----------



## texasjack (Feb 17, 2016)

Very nice


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2016)

texasjack said:


> Very nice


I'm putting these up now so I can look back from 8 weeks hence and compare runs to those with the COB LED lights.


----------



## elkamino (Feb 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm putting these up now so I can look back from 8 weeks hence and compare runs to those with the COB LED lights.


Got a shot from th backside, one that shows the training? I see buds down low... but no branches on the main stem down there. Makes me curious what the backside looks like!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2016)

Had a consult with another grower and it seems we are very much on the and page about what's good and what needs help with my op; 
Good; 
Efficiency 
Use of space
Quality

Needs improvement; 
Temps too high
Not enough light
Bump up nutrient strength, I was apparently being too cautious

High temps will be solved with the COB LED upgrade now in progress. Low light, same story. Inadequate cooling will be solved with the new chiller. Nutes is already being addressed, and I can run them higher.

I like constructive feedback!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2016)

elkamino said:


> Got a shot from th backside, one that shows the training? I see buds down low... but no branches on the main stem down there. Makes me curious what the backside looks like!


Different plant, same techniques;


----------



## elkamino (Feb 17, 2016)

Nice! I know you've said it be before but from the back side its really clear... strain selection must be totally key to grow that tall, in that space.

Still can't wrap my head around this plan you've got planned for LEDs but I'm stoked to see how you make it work...


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2016)

elkamino said:


> Nice! I know you've said it be before but from the back side its really clear... strain selection must be totally key to grow that tall, in that space.
> 
> Still can't wrap my head around this plan you've got planned for LEDs but I'm stoked to see how you make it work...


Strains make some difference but the plant likes to grow, I just let it! There are a few that just take too long, like heavy indicas.


----------



## a mongo frog (Feb 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Different plant, same techniques;
> View attachment 3610670


Thats dope!!!!!! You have attachment tools for the branches to wire mesh?


----------



## dbkick (Feb 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Needs improvement;
> 
> Bump up nutrient strength, I was apparently being too cautious


This part......I thought you ran pretty high EC already , no?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Thats dope!!!!!! You have attachment tools for the branches to wire mesh?


Vine clips and green vinyl wrapped wire ties.

Loppers for harvest time...


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2016)

dbkick said:


> This part......I thought you ran pretty high EC already , no?


EC 2.0? I thought so too but the guys who saw my buds thought otherwise.


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## dbkick (Feb 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> EC 2.0? I thought so too but the guys who saw my buds thought otherwise.


Does this just apply because the plants are so fucking big or what? I hits 2 EC and shit starts to happen. Not good shit.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2016)

dbkick said:


> Does this just apply because the plants are so fucking big or what? I hits 2 EC and shit starts to happen. Not good shit.


What do you run for RH?


----------



## dbkick (Feb 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> What do you run for RH?


dry as fuck , being colorado I have a hard time getting over 20% most of the time.Although I'm not so sure how accurate the hygrometer runs.
I do cool in the summer with a swamper which it looks like I'll be needing to run a hose to, global warming....naw.
Almost got a sun burn today.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 17, 2016)

dbkick said:


> dry as fuck , being colorado I have a hard time getting over 20% most of the time.Although I'm not so sure how accurate the hygrometer runs.
> I do cool in the summer with a swamper which it looks like I'll be needing to run a hose to, global warming....naw.
> Almost got a sun burn today.


Fuckin' A, right? Sixty for a day or two isn't unusual. Half of the entire month of February shows highs in the fifties and above? Unprecedented!

So the RH is the difference. I run mine up around 70%, sealed, co2, yadda yadda. Higher RH needs higher nutrient strength to make up for lower transpiration rates.


----------



## Waiks (Feb 18, 2016)

Fuck yeah man! For a while I would lurk in here and just scroll looking at pics... I love your system! Stoked to see how you setup them cobs. 

I'm on a quest to push my space limits to the test
Manifest the best possible harvest
In my little 5 foot tent, only 20 inches deep,
Can I put the cobs that close to the screen?
Cxb 3070, at 1.4amps,
20 inches away from our favorite plants
Figure I can flip the lights at 75% full,
For the first two weeks of flower continue to pull
All new growth down to the screen with some ties, 
Then just let them plump up towards the lights? 
Safe distance from cobs, is lets say 1 foot
How far towards the lights after 2 weeks flowering do the colas shoot? 

If ~6-8 inches sound reasonable, I'm in the clear!
Here's a pic of what I'm thinking, the rhyming stops here...
 
The front and back walls basically. When I open the tent the light bars will be directly in front of me. The far back wall will have a screen installed. The plants will stay in front of the screen, but all branches will be tied to it. Like I said I'll tie down to 75% full, flip to flower, and continue tying down the branches going further up the screen till just before stretch ends. After that, I'll have 6-8 inches of room for them to grow towards the "safety zone" of canopy distance from light. 

What do you think vertical master ty?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 18, 2016)

Waiks said:


> Fuck yeah man! For a while I would lurk in here and just scroll looking at pics... I love your system! Stoked to see how you setup them cobs.
> 
> I'm on a quest to push my space limits to the test
> Manifest the best possible harvest
> ...


I think it has serious potential. You'll need to stay ahead of the growth, they will stretch based on strain and light strength. The only way to find out is to try it!


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 19, 2016)

http://www.startribune.com/experimental-sunken-greenhouse-in-minneapolis-is-weathering-its-first-winter-and-growing-food/368621991/


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Feb 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> they will stretch based on strain and light strength


The color of light has an affect on stretching, too. Less stretching under blues than reds.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 21, 2016)

hey man I just wanted to pass on my laughing. what the fuck are all these people on? not on the same drugs as me


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## ttystikk (Feb 21, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> hey man I just wanted to pass on my laughing. what the fuck are all these people on? not on the same drugs as me


Those are definitely the side effects of some BAD DRUGS, maybe rotten oxy? Lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 21, 2016)

Roxycontin oxycontin....sure there must be a list of these fucking things....


----------



## Waiks (Feb 22, 2016)

I plan to run a strain I'm familiar with through the system first. She stretches only 50% in the first 10 days and stops. 
Therefore, I'm going to flip when the screen is like 85% full. If things get crazy, I can trim back, but can't add they say! Next run I hope to have some stretchy genes in there to compare

Looking more and more through the vert section I have high hopes for my system as well your cob setup tty. You've got lots of people anxious to see super space efficiency meets super energy efficiency!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 22, 2016)

Waiks said:


> I plan to run a strain I'm familiar with through the system first. She stretches only 50% in the first 10 days and stops.
> Therefore, I'm going to flip when the screen is like 85% full. If things get crazy, I can trim back, but can't add they say! Next run I hope to have some stretchy genes in there to compare
> 
> Looking more and more through the vert section I have high hopes for my system as well your cob setup tty. You've got lots of people anxious to see super space efficiency meets super energy efficiency!


I've got my fingers crossed...


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 22, 2016)

My poor dog. He got a broken blood vessel in his ear and it filled with blood, 'hematoma'. Now after surgery he has a cone on his head so he can't chew or rub his bandage off.

I know he's in pain, he's been moping and sitting against me all evening- until I blew a few hits in his face. The cone kept the smoke around his nose so he got a decent contact buzz.

Amazing how he's playful, relaxed, went out to pee, and in general just not suffering.

Then he comes back inside with the tip of his tail bleeding and he's getting blood all over his flanks. Fuck! 

Goddammit, dog, quit tearing yourself to pieces already!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 22, 2016)

Blow him a few more


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 22, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Blow him a few more


No need. He's allllllll chill now...

He got the hematoma by shaking too hard. That's how he broke a blood vessel in the first place. I've seen him whip his tail hard enough to make it bleed before.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No need. He's allllllll chill now...
> 
> He got the hematoma by shaking too hard. That's how he broke a blood vessel in the first place. I've seen him whip his tail hard enough to make it bleed before.


Shit, gotta love em. What kind of dog? Not a lab? Used to have a miniature schnauzer which loved to get stoned. He would go right up the top of the couch to be near the smoke clouds where he could do his own medicating


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 22, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Shit, gotta love em. What kind of dog? Not a lab? Used to have a miniature schnauzer which loved to get stoned. He would go right up the top of the couch to be near the smoke clouds where he could do his own medicating


 

Half n half Jack Russell Terrorist and dachshund. My best friend, ever.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3614575
> 
> Half n half Jack Russell Terrorist and dachshund. My best friend, ever.


Ha ha ha, terrorist eh. I had few terriers growing up but never a jack russell. Though we had dachsunds (short and long hair) around for my whole life until about 20. As a matter of fact my pop has a short hair one now which he feeds fucking everything.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 22, 2016)

Yeah, weed and dogs...good combination. He looks like he could be a terrorist , too funny


----------



## ODanksta (Feb 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There's a theory that the psycho active effects of a fungus that infects rye when it's damp actually caused first a famine due to bad weather and then the French Revolution. Rye ergot 'poisoning'?
> 
> The few have taken control of the means of production and control from the many, and of course they drive only towards a destination that suits their's, and not everyone's needs.


Acid, made from ergot..

You should check out the stoned ape theory..


----------



## ODanksta (Feb 24, 2016)

Hey any pics of bubba bluemoonshine? Or is that the hillybilly hobby?


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## ttystikk (Feb 24, 2016)

ODanksta said:


> Hey any pics of bubba bluemoonshine? Or is that the hillybilly hobby?


That's right, the Hillbilly Hobby is pre '98 Bubba Kush X Moonshine Haze. Thanks to @homebrew420 for the gift of the cross.


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## lawlrus (Feb 24, 2016)

Damn, that sounds like my kind of cross. Lucky man. I need to run back through the last few pages here.


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## ttystikk (Feb 24, 2016)

ODanksta said:


> Hey any pics of bubba bluemoonshine? Or is that the hillybilly hobby?


 
Most recent harvest pic.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3616107
> Most recent harvest pic.


Nice. Was just looking at flowering plants figuring I have another month before anything comes down then most at 1.5 mos. away.


----------



## pop22 (Feb 25, 2016)

I'm thinking of starting with 1 flat screen and expanding to 2 in a tent after I get the hang of it. Should the plant be attached to the screen from the front or the back? What do you do with the branches on the rear of the plant?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'm thinking of starting with 1 flat screen and expanding to 2 in a tent after I get the hang of it. Should the plant be attached to the screen from the front or the back? What do you do with the branches on the rear of the plant?


From the front; and bend them to the front. If they refuse, cut them off.


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## lawlrus (Feb 25, 2016)

What do you pull off a screen typically? Like that pic for example, I don't have much for scale but 8-10oz all said and done it looks like? Nice work man.


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## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> What do you pull off a screen typically? Like that pic for example, I don't have much for scale but 8-10oz all said and done it looks like? Nice work man.


Who's this ? for?


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## lawlrus (Feb 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Who's this ? for?


That one was for you my friend.


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## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> What do you pull off a screen typically? Like that pic for example, I don't have much for scale but 8-10oz all said and done it looks like? Nice work man.


'About a pound', and climbing. That's finished, after cure weight. Best is an ISS Bubblegum, it came in at 26 1/4oz.

Scale is easy; every square on the trellis is 4x4"

Thank you!


----------



## guerrilla medic (Feb 25, 2016)

a pic with some nice chunkers. represent


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## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

guerrilla medic said:


> a pic with some nice chunkers. represent


You asking for one? They're all over this thread, lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 'About a pound', and climbing. That's finished, after cure weight. Best is an ISS Bubblegum, it came in at 26 1/4oz.
> 
> Scale is easy; every square on the trellis is 4x4"
> 
> Thank you!


 Ill be happy if I see the day when weight doesnt equal money then fucking people will quit asking that dumbass question. I understand why it is important at this point, but I want to see the day when that doesnt fucking matter. Drives me insane that the higher number has to be better, have to hit those numbers, if dont hit those numbers you fail, type of mentality.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 25, 2016)

I know you grow some badass dank which are fat fucking plants, thats all I need to know, numbers dont mean shit to me


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Ill be happy if I see the day when weight doesnt equal money then fucking people will quit asking that dumbass question. I understand why it is important at this point, but I want to see the day when that doesnt fucking matter. Drives me insane that the higher number has to be better, have to hit those numbers, if dont hit those numbers you fail, type of mentality.


I agree.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I know you grow some badass dank which are fat fucking plants, thats all I need to know, numbers dont mean shit to me


I hear you! Thanks!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

And yet, I'm also in complete agreement with those who insist on high efficiency, big yields and weed on a factory scale and on a schedule.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> And yet, I'm also in complete agreement with those who insist on high efficiency, big yields and weed on a factory scale and on a schedule.


Yeah I dont have any issues with people doing that. I just dont agree with money dictating all....and when I look out at this world these days, high numbers are all that matters, it makes or breaks.....its a stupid fkn thing thats being "instilled" in children and adults alike


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

To explain; first, everyone has their own set of priorities. I understand they differ for different situations, legal environments, desired outcomes, etc. 

As a horticultural systems designer, it's my job to meet the needs of my clients and customers, not dictate what they should be. 

No one WANTS to throw quality under the bus in the chase for yield, but it's an easy choice that does fill the grower's wallet. Ignoring this reality is an ivory tower mistake. 

Yet, I feel strongly that quality and quantity are not mutually exclusive goals and that Big Cannabis is never going to be as much of a commodity business as corn or pork bellies. Quality always has, still does, and increasingly will count for a great deal of the price going forward. 

To this end, I'm attacking the yield side aggressively, by reducing the square footage, reducing the necessary power requirements and reducing the needed manhours per unit of volume produced. 

Yet nothing in the book of efficiency improvements precludes greater returns, nor is there an absolute tradeoff to the quality of the end product. In short, I seek to push the boundaries of performance without trampling on the plant any more than necessary- and that's a standard set by the customer. There's the dispensary/warehouse operator who has one set of requirements and then there's THEIR customer, whose needs might be substantially different. 

In short, one ignores quality at great peril to reputation and bottom line.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yeah I dont have any issues with people doing that. I just dont agree with money dictating all....and when I look out at this world these days, high numbers are all that matters, it makes or breaks.....its a stupid fkn thing thats being "instilled" in children and adults alike


You went a completely different direction with that than I did.

What are friends for? Lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 25, 2016)

Hell even I cant argue with the fact that the more weed I can produce that means the more I can consume! Thats a fucking winner in my book!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Hell even I cant argue with the fact that the more weed I can produce that means the more I can consume! Thats a fucking winner in my book!


True dat... ..as long as it's good weed.

'Ttystikk don't let no warehouse grow bunk!'

That's a promise.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> True dat... ..as long as it's good weed.
> 
> 'Ttystikk don't let no warehouse grow bunk!'
> 
> That's a promise.


I dont know the term bunk where it applies to my garden


----------



## lawlrus (Feb 25, 2016)

I see both sides of the coin. For me, high yield without sacrifice to quality is a necessity because I don't have the luxury of moving to a legal state at the moment. That's what got me into vertical growing to begin with. Aside from the legal aspect, I'm paid in the top 5% of people in my zip code currently for the job I do, but if I moved out west I would not have that same economic opportunity by a long shot. At the end of the day the most important thing is quality and if I was able to quantify the balance between that and yield I would absolutely lose a few ounces at the end of the run if it meant that I would be looking at absolute top shelf A++ quality (and I'm way tougher on myself than anybody else is in this regard). It's just not that simple, so I have to do what I have to do to strike a good balance in the best way I know how. IDK, just another opinion from a not-so-friendly state.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> I see both sides of the coin. For me, high yield without sacrifice to quality is a necessity because I don't have the luxury of moving to a legal state at the moment. That's what got me into vertical growing to begin with. Aside from the legal aspect, I'm paid in the top 5% of people in my zip code currently for the job I do, but if I moved out west I would not have that same economic opportunity by a long shot. At the end of the day the most important thing is quality and if I was able to quantify the balance between that and yield I would absolutely lose a few ounces at the end of the run if it meant that I would be looking at absolute top shelf A++ quality (and I'm way tougher on myself than anybody else is in this regard). It's just not that simple, so I have to do what I have to do to strike a good balance in the best way I know how. IDK, just another opinion from a not-so-friendly state.


Everyone's viewpoint is appreciated, and your comments really strike to the heart of the grower's conundrum; how to produce the best you can in enough quantity to make it viable. The legal environment has surprisingly little to do with it; it's the customer who decides.


----------



## lawlrus (Feb 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Everyone's viewpoint is appreciated, and your comments really strike to the heart of the grower's conundrum; how to produce the best you can in enough quantity to make it viable. The legal environment has surprisingly little to do with it; it's the customer who decides.


For sure, and there's no doubt that one could fetch a higher price for mediocre product in my area than you likely could charge for top shelf in yours for a number of reasons. I really only care about making back my minimal investment and helping friends and family so the rest is just icing on the cake. But nearly doubling my yields over the years just by switching the position of the light bulb was hard to pass up either way.


----------



## lawlrus (Feb 25, 2016)

btw, I'm waiting with bated breath to see your vertical cob led setup in action...just give me a reason to switch man...


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 25, 2016)

@ttystikk 1.50 bowl of beef pho for breakfast.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> btw, I'm waiting with bated breath to see your vertical cob led setup in action...just give me a reason to switch man...


You know that's what this thread is for, right? To give powerful reasons to convert the faithful?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> @ttystikk 1.50 bowl of beef pho for breakfast.View attachment 3616833


That, my friend, is exactly what I'm planning to eat for dinner. There's a pho place right down the street and I'm on it! I need to remind them that I like my cilantro. It's been coming up missing lately.

Oh yeah; same bowl, $10.50


----------



## lawlrus (Feb 25, 2016)

Good man, I'm of the opinion that people who don't like cilantro can't be trusted.


----------



## texasjack (Feb 25, 2016)

They always try to cheap out on the fresh ingredients

My wife has been trying her hand at making it at home. It's surprisingly easy.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 25, 2016)

texasjack said:


> They always try to cheap out on the fresh ingredients
> 
> My wife has been trying her hand at making it at home. It's surprisingly easy.


I suspect that puerile people complained pathetically. I asked and was rewarded with an ample handful, as well as what sure seemed like a lot more beef, lol

Yum! It's what's pho dinner!


Married bliss, it's a wonderful thing! 

PS for any single women who might be out there, keep in mind that the quickest way to my heart is right thru my stomach.


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I suspect that puerile people complained pathetically. I asked and was rewarded with an ample handful, as well as what sure seemed like a lot more beef, lol
> 
> Yum! It's what's pho dinner!
> View attachment 3616939
> ...


nice dinner but where are the pics of the new lights?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 26, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> nice dinner but where are the pics of the new lights?


Well it is up and testing. Hoping to have plants in front of it tomorrow.


----------



## greencropper (Feb 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I suspect that puerile people complained pathetically. I asked and was rewarded with an ample handful, as well as what sure seemed like a lot more beef, lol
> 
> Yum! It's what's pho dinner!
> View attachment 3616939
> ...


funny how Pho is pronounced..'fur'....


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 27, 2016)

greencropper said:


> funny how Pho is pronounced..'fur'....


Poor Vietnamese, they learned to spell from the French. No wonder everyone's so horribly confused!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

Since this is exactly the chip I'm running, I shamelessly stole this post and copied it here. Thanks, @BOBBY_G ;

the equations i extrapolated from this graph and Supras charts for a 3590 3500k CD bin are:

W = Dissipation wattage
I = current
E= efficiency

W=1.2425 * I^2 + 34.214 * I - 1.6752
E=0.8948 * I^2 - 13.203 * I + 73.234

which gives

I W E
0.1 1.758625 71.92265
0.15 3.484856 71.27368
0.2 5.2173 70.62919
0.25 6.955956 69.98918
0.3 8.700825 69.35363
0.35 10.45191 68.72256
0.4 12.2092 68.09597
0.45 13.97271 67.47385
0.5 15.74243 66.8562
0.55 17.51836 66.24303
0.6 19.3005 65.63433
0.65 21.08886 65.0301
0.7 22.88343 64.43035
0.75 24.68421 63.83508
0.8 26.4912 63.24427
0.85 28.30441 62.65794
0.9 30.12383 62.07609
0.95 31.94946 61.49871
1 33.7813 60.9258
1.05 35.61936 60.35737
1.1 37.46363 59.79341
1.15 39.31411 59.23392
1.2 41.1708 58.67891
1.25 43.03371 58.12838
1.3 44.90283 57.58231
1.35 46.77816 57.04072
1.4 48.6597 56.50361
1.45 50.54746 55.97097
1.5 52.44143 55.4428
1.55 54.34161 54.91911
1.6 56.248 54.39989
1.65 58.16061 53.88514
1.7 60.07943 53.37487
1.75 62.00446 52.86908
1.8 63.9357 52.36775
1.85 65.87316 51.8709
1.9 67.81683 51.37853
1.95 69.76671 50.89063
2 71.7228 50.4072
2.05 73.68511 49.92825
2.1 75.65363 49.45377
2.15 77.62836 48.98376
2.2 79.6093 48.51823
2.25 81.59646 48.05718
2.3 83.58983 47.60059
2.35 85.58941 47.14848
2.4 87.5952 46.70085
2.45 89.60721 46.25769
2.5 91.62543 45.819
2.55 93.64986 45.38479
2.6 95.6805 44.95505
2.65 97.71736 44.52978
2.7 99.76043 44.10899


----------



## BOBBY_G (Feb 28, 2016)

please note that was for supras particular chip. yours may perform slightly better or worse and be within same bin. say +/- 5% or so


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> please note that was for supras particular chip. yours may perform slightly better or worse and be within same bin. say +/- 5% or so


Mine is also the CD Bin, 3500K chip. Only difference is that these equations are for 36V and my chips run at 72V, so I just cut the amps in half to read the chart.


----------



## BOBBY_G (Feb 28, 2016)

correct. and thats the only real data we have below 1.4A (0.70 to you)


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

Testing, testing... is this thing on?
Ooooooh yeah- 

Fill and leak check the RDWC.
Finish building the space. 
Panda film on the walls. 
Screw hooks for trellis panels. 

We might be ready for plants today!


----------



## ACitizenofColorado (Feb 28, 2016)

TTYS, 

Why'd you choose 72v vs 36? 

I'm about to take the plunge on the cxb 3590s. 

Also, what do you use for a foliar preventative pesticide/fungicide. Do you have any experience with Zero Tolerance? 

In the first few days of flower, I sprayed once with neem. Since then, things have been waiting to figure out the right process. 

I'm new at this, but after getting some seeds from Botanico weed, I compared their ingriedients list to the CO MED legal ingriedient database. That's how I arrived at Zero Tolerance, among other things. 

I appreciate your trees, can you give be the secret? AACTs? Some product? Black magic? 

Thanks.


----------



## lawlrus (Feb 28, 2016)




----------



## BOBBY_G (Feb 28, 2016)

ACitizenofColorado said:


> TTYS,
> 
> Why'd you choose 72v vs 36?
> 
> ...


best preventative for PM is GreenCure, its omri-listed potassium bicarbonate
keep your humidity under 50% esp at night
cool temps+ high humidity = mold city

if you take new clones from people, or have had a problem with PM in the past, get yourself some eagle 20, dip clones completely, make sure they are 90+ days away from finishing and it will be nondetectable


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> best preventative for PM is GreenCure, its omri-listed potassium bicarbonate
> keep your humidity under 50% esp at night
> cool temps+ high humidity = mold city
> 
> if you take new clones from people, or have had a problem with PM in the past, get yourself some eagle 20, dip clones completely, make sure they are 90+ days away from finishing and it will be nondetectable


I've done the eagle 20 dip and it was ineffective. I don't recommend that shit anywhere near plants meant for human consumption.

SAFE stuff to foliar with that kills or slows down the dreaded PM;
Green Cure
Safer Insecticidal Soap
Potassium Silicate

These can be used in rotation or together. A fine mist sprayer helps a lot. Getting the PM wet kills it, hence the use of surfactants.


----------



## BOBBY_G (Feb 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I've done the eagle 20 dip and it was ineffective.



i used it once and it was completely gone forever. i also took everything down to just clones and dipped every one, then grew them out to moms and took clones to flower from those. so it was prob more like 120+ days thru one cloning


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

ACitizenofColorado said:


> TTYS,
> 
> Why'd you choose 72v vs 36?
> 
> ...


Cuz the wait for 36V COBs and drivers was longer, lol

Neem and Zero tolerance are fine in veg, problematic in bloom, especially past halfway. 

My trees are grown like every other plant; with time, love, light, nutes and training. No magic. 

Well, there WAS that coven that blessed me and my work...


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> i used it once and it was completely gone forever. i also took everything down to just clones and dipped every one, then grew them out to moms and took clones to flower from those. so it was prob more like 120+ days thru one cloning


We may have reinfested the dipped clones.


----------



## BOBBY_G (Feb 28, 2016)

id say thats a given 

i also cleaned everything including spraying down walls and floors with 10% bleach. 

eagle20 is systemic and provides you 28 days at least to clean EVERYTHING and it shouldnt come back


----------



## ACitizenofColorado (Feb 28, 2016)

Thank you both. It's under control for now. But hopefully an ounce of prevention will be worth a pound of cured. 

TTY did you go through KB or cutter?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

ACitizenofColorado said:


> Thank you both. It's under control for now. But hopefully an ounce of prevention will be worth a pound of cured.
> 
> TTY did you go through KB or cutter?


KB last time, next time is whoever has the chips I want at the right price.


----------



## ACitizenofColorado (Feb 28, 2016)

Are you still going with the CXB 3590s? I'm about to place an order with Jerry for 4 CXB 3590 3500k 36v, 1 HLG-240-1400 or 2100, and lenses.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

ACitizenofColorado said:


> Are you still going with the CXB 3590s? I'm about to place an order with Jerry for 4 CXB 3590 3500k 36v, 1 HLG-240-1400 or 2100, and lenses.


I plan to take advantage of the new higher bin but otherwise yes. I'm running 72V chips and since there's no real downside I'll stick to that standard for now. From everything I'm told, it makes exactly zero difference, you just run hlg-185h-c700 (a,b or c dimming options, I chose b).

Another option is to use -1050 drivers for 5 COBs, slightly more efficiency.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

A few pics of yummy goodness coming soon;
  
Yes, more Hillbilly Hobby. Sue me.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> A few pics of yummy goodness coming soon;
> View attachment 3619181 View attachment 3619185
> Yes, more Hillbilly Hobby. Sue me.


Those are fucking awesome @ttystikk

Hey buddy I am glad that eagle 20 worked for you, but its fucking poison! There are other ways....organic ways.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Those are fucking awesome @ttystikk
> 
> Hey buddy I am glad that eagle 20 worked for you, but its fucking poison! There are other ways....organic ways.


I'm not using it, that was someone else asking for advice. Shit's nasty.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm not using it, that was someone else asking for advice. Shit's nasty.


Yeah I know I was just putting that out there . Your plants look fucking lovely!! How big are those buds when they finish swelling? tennis balls? racket balls?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yeah I know I was just putting that out there . Your plants look fucking lovely!! How big are those buds when they finish swelling? tennis balls? racket balls?


Thank you, Sir! 

The wire trellis in the background serves as scale, it's 4" squares. Depending on strain, I've been able to hide a two liter soda bottle behind one!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you, Sir!
> 
> The wire trellis in the background serves as scale, it's 4" squares. Depending on strain, I've been able to hide a two liter soda bottle behind one!


Fucking A thats something to strive for, 2 liter coke bottle sizes buds


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Fucking A thats something to strive for, 2 liter coke bottle sizes buds


Makes me sad how much they shrink.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

This wall of nuggets is the ever popular Captain Jack, Jack Herer x Jamaican landrace;


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Makes me sad how much they shrink.


Yeah I would say an easy 50-70% is lost. The first decent Durban Poison I grew was from marijuana-seeds.nl and when dried it was still just under racket ball size when dried. Been hunting for something with buds like that since....


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

And here is Super Lemon Haze;


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

...and another Hillbilly;


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

And I didn't catch the Jillybean in time, but here's a few nugs;


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 28, 2016)

@ttystikk you know about these guys? http://cloverleafuniversity.com/
Pretty cool they are offering courses/lectures and they are looking for people in the know...


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> @ttystikk you know about these guys? http://cloverleafuniversity.com/
> Pretty cool they are offering courses/lectures and they are looking for people in the know...


*1/14 Advanced Master Grow Techniques*
Thursday, January 14, 2016
Hours of Instruction: 4:00pm to 8:00pm

...LMFAO at the idea 'you too can be a ADVANCED MASTER GROWER in just 4 hours!'

A fool and his money.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 28, 2016)

HAHAHAHAHA, SO TRUE. So they are chasing cash then eh? Sad


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 28, 2016)

yeah expert strain breeding and genetics....in only 4 hours......okie dokie


----------



## zep_lover (Feb 28, 2016)

nice pics .can we see the new light set up?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> nice pics .can we see the new light set up?


How come you got your private messaging turned off?


----------



## zep_lover (Mar 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> How come you got your private messaging turned off?


didnt know they were.think i turned them on now.


----------



## ACitizenofColorado (Mar 1, 2016)

Hey ttystikk, I'm thinking about going for the 72v chips. Am I correct in assuming your wattage is double the sheet you attached earlier? That your 72v cob at .7 a is about 44 watts? 

In your experience, is it unreasonable to run the cobs at 60-70 watts? 

I'm only picking up 4 or 5 on the first round, and I'd like to run them as high as possible, for now. Will worry about efficiency in a month, when I have more chips. 

Thoughts? BTW, where's the dank Vietnamese food in FOCO? Thus far, I've had a hard time finding decent Thai or Vietnamese. We've tried Sri Thai and ban Thai. Sri thai wasn't bad at all, just inconsistent for our tastes. 

An exact quote from my gf to you, "Tell him that Pho looks amazing! Where is it? How do we get it? I want it now." Lol.

Also, have you tried running a vertical grow with COBs yet? 

Thanks for your thread. I'm not sure if I found it before or after building my vertical grow, but I've read it nonstop since.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 1, 2016)

ACitizenofColorado said:


> Hey ttystikk, I'm thinking about going for the 72v chips. Am I correct in assuming your wattage is double the sheet you attached earlier? That your 72v cob at .7 a is about 44 watts?
> 
> In your experience, is it unreasonable to run the cobs at 60-70 watts?
> 
> ...


72V x .7A = 50.4W

The CXB3590's nominal rating is 110W, so anything below that is fine. 

My knowledge of how to combine chips and drivers efficiently is very thin; I picked a good looking candidate and went with it. 

You'll need to pick a set of chips to run, then change them all if you want a higher efficiency setup, food for thought. 

Speaking of, you gotta check out Pho Duy on Drake Rd, between the vet hospital and the cheap cinema, east of shields. Another good all around Asian food place is Chili House, Troutman pkwy at College Avenue. For authentic dim sum- not Vietnamese, but still highly recommended- the Empire chinese restaurant is just south of Drake on College, in the same shopping center as Computer Resource and Joanne's Fabrics. 

And that's your local culinary rundown for good eats on the Asian beat!


----------



## Waiks (Mar 1, 2016)

Aloha Friend!

I read a couple of your old posts that mentioned you using water cooling to lower the temp in the space instead of A/C. Could you elaborate or point me in the direction to that method? Is it possible to apply the technique to a micro situation?



I built this janky thing way back when... Couldn't figure out how to cool the water back down after it went through the styrofoam rez, and I got sick of buying ice for a few hours of cooling, so I re purposed the fan.
Basically, what's the smallest available chiller around? I'm sure I could put something together

edit: how tf can I diy one of these??? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+30013&pcatid=30013&s=lh

This looks promising- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6J02E43227&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-Home+Electronics+Accessories-_-9SIA6J02E43227&gclid=CJnw-_DXocsCFc9ffgodQOgBug&gclsrc=aw.ds

Put a cpu water cooling radiator inside with the water lines coming out of it. I wonder the capacity..

Sorry for thread clutter! Your methods have inspired many ideas


Thanks


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 2, 2016)

Waiks said:


> Aloha Friend!
> 
> I read a couple of your old posts that mentioned you using water cooling to lower the temp in the space instead of A/C. Could you elaborate or point me in the direction to that method? Is it possible to apply the technique to a micro situation?
> 
> ...


This isn't clutter. Talking about politics? Lol

Water cooling can be more efficient, let me noodle on your situation for a bit and see what I come up with. I'm not sure it's the best solution for your situation.


----------



## Waiks (Mar 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This isn't clutter. Talking about politics? Lol
> 
> Water cooling can be more efficient, let me noodle on your situation for a bit and see what I come up with. I'm not sure it's the best solution for your situation.


Hows this: www.overclockers.com/the-peltier-radiator/

Peltier sammiched in between two arctic alpine 11 heatsinks. Hot side has the fan cooling it, cold side is sealed to a water container. Water pump in the container with the input connected to one of these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011U5C62I/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_lyY1wbVX7YBVY

I'll have the water block directly in contact with the cold sink in the water. The pump will suck the water in the container through the block and the output will be connected to the fan coil. The heated water comes back around to splash back into the rez to be cooled down again. 

I could set a thermostat controller for the peltier part to only come on when the air being blown from the fan gets too warm. 

I could even scrap the fan w/ coil and just have the cold water running through a cpu radiator with a fan connected. Small cooling capacity, small water rez, small fan, small space to cool.

I'll be sketching some designs later


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 2, 2016)

Partying in Denver tonight! Cops have already been called! Having a great time, steaks, strip clubs, sex in the car, the whole fuckin SHEEEEbang mothafuckas!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Partying in Denver tonight! Cops have already been called! Having a great time, steaks, strip clubs, sex in the car, the whole fuckin SHEEEEbang mothafuckas!


It's about fucking time you had some fun lmfao


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 3, 2016)

...and back to work. I grow too much MMJ to needlessly suffer thru a hangover.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 3, 2016)

Hangover? What's that? Lol


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Mar 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Partying in Denver tonight!


WTF? Next time you better send out a warning ahead of time.


----------



## ACitizenofColorado (Mar 3, 2016)

Hey ttystikk, where do you get power potassium silicate? I can't seem to wind a cheap supply. Thanks.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 3, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> WTF? Next time you better send out a warning ahead of time.


I second that notion!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 3, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> WTF? Next time you better send out a warning ahead of time.


I'll hit you up next time, when I have more notice.

As much of a ruckus as we raised are you sure you want in? Might end up with a ticket!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 3, 2016)

ACitizenofColorado said:


> Hey ttystikk, where do you get power potassium silicate? I can't seem to wind a cheap supply. Thanks.


There's a thread on here about nutes, let me link to it. Ask there and we'll both know! Or, just ask @MisterBlah


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 3, 2016)

And the COB LED setup is running with plants in it! It's by no means complete but it's enough there to run and see how it works.


----------



## GroErr (Mar 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> And the COB LED setup is running with plants in it! It's by no means complete but it's enough there to run and see how it works.


Congrats, this has been a long ride and investment but it'll pay off. Good luck, you should kill it once it's dialed in 

Edit: Pics or it never happened


----------



## ACitizenofColorado (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks. Just found that thread and forum. Working through it now.


----------



## Fogdog (Mar 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> And the COB LED setup is running with plants in it! It's by no means complete but it's enough there to run and see how it works.


Woohoo.! Firing up the prototype. This is exciting to hear.


----------



## zep_lover (Mar 3, 2016)

good luck!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 3, 2016)

Fogdog said:


> Woohoo.! Firing up the prototype. This is exciting to hear.


This is both an exciting and scary time. I'm trying several new things together. If it were just one I wouldn't be nearly so anxious. 

The light box we built is so bright with the lights on it's uncomfortable to look in there without sunglasses- and that's not looking at any COBs at all.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Congrats, this has been a long ride and investment but it'll pay off. Good luck, you should kill it once it's dialed in
> 
> Edit: Pics or it never happened


  

And so it begins;
Morning water temp 59, it will warm up into the mid 60s by lights out. 
EC 1.9, high RH wants high nute strength
PH 5.3, will climb from here

Temperature set to 82f
RH in the 70s
CO2 1500ppm


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3623039 View attachment 3623040
> 
> And so it begins;
> Morning water temp 59, it will warm up into the mid 60s by lights out.
> ...


Fuck yeah!! Love seeing those


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

I'm going to stay up for awhile to babysit and make sure nothing goes wrong for this first full day cycle. 

@Vnsmkr it occurs to me that I'm spending a lot of fuckin time and money just to replicate the conditions on your patio!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm going to stay up for awhile to babysit and make sure nothing goes wrong for this first full day cycle.
> 
> @Vnsmkr it occurs to me that I'm spending a lot of fuckin time and money just to replicate the conditions on your patio!


Yeah I would do the same first night or so. I hear you on the replication, BUT if you can give that option to people who will NEVER be in my conditions then it works eh. Its that option thats important especially as the years ahead go by.....They look good, can't wait to see the buds the produce with the new setup'S


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yeah I would do the same first night or so. I hear you on the replication, BUT if you can give that option to people who will NEVER be in my conditions then it works eh. Its that option thats important especially as the years ahead go by.....They look good, can't wait to see the buds the produce with the new setup'S


Eight weeks, mark your calendar!


----------



## SomeGuy (Mar 4, 2016)

Nice man. Pics of light source? Dwc?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Nice man. Pics of light source? Dwc?


Thank you. 

Not yet. 

RDWC of my own design; no airstones, single pump in control bucket, actively chilled.


----------



## SomeGuy (Mar 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Not yet.
> 
> RDWC of my own design; no airstones, single pump in control bucket, actively chilled.


Cool man. Looks likes it's working.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Cool man. Looks likes it's working.


Give me some time to prove the damned thing actually works first, lol


----------



## SomeGuy (Mar 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Give me some time to prove the damned thing actually works first, lol


They are vegged big. You have a damn good start. 

Added airstones to my sip just now. Most hydro I've done in years. Lol


----------



## GroErr (Mar 4, 2016)

Very nice, those look like happy girls in there. Hope you got some sleep!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Very nice, those look like happy girls in there. Hope you got some sleep!


Not yet...


----------



## bicit (Mar 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3623039 View attachment 3623040
> 
> And so it begins;
> Morning water temp 59, it will warm up into the mid 60s by lights out.
> ...


Damn that wall got lit up. The panda film does a better job of showing off the light than the wood paneling


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

bicit said:


> Damn that wall got lit up. The panda film does a better job of showing off the light than the wood paneling


Oh boy, what that thing does to your melatonin levels...


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 4, 2016)

I can't wait to see for myself!


----------



## MisterBlah (Mar 4, 2016)

ACitizenofColorado said:


> Hey ttystikk, where do you get power potassium silicate? I can't seem to wind a cheap supply. Thanks.





ttystikk said:


> There's a thread on here about nutes, let me link to it. Ask there and we'll both know! Or, just ask @MisterBlah


There's a product banded Zacsil and also one branded Agsil 16H. They are the same powdered potassium silicate. Agsil 16H seems to be easier to find. So, google Agsil 16H and you'll find plenty of shops on the Internet. 

I do not know of any in Colorado, right now. Although, I'm sure I'll end up carrying it sometime soon.


----------



## m4s73r (Mar 4, 2016)

Hey Tty, had to swing by and see how things were going. Lookin good mate.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> Hey Tty, had to swing by and see how things were going. Lookin good mate.


Thank you, Sir!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you, Sir!


You sleep yet? Assume everything rocking along just fine eh?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> You sleep yet? Assume everything rocking along just fine eh?


Sleep? What's that? 

I was up until almost 4, then up again at 5:30, then up for the day at 8. It's 7pm here now and it's Friday night, wtf would I be sleeping for? Lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 4, 2016)

Ha ha I hear you. At the moment for me what day it is, is fkn irrelevant . Sleep is over rated though. Can sleep plenty when we are dead


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Ha ha I hear you. At the moment for me what day it is, is fkn irrelevant . Sleep is over rated though. Can sleep plenty when we are dead


...which won't be for a little while yet, if we're lucky!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> There's a product banded Zacsil and also one branded Agsil 16H. They are the same powdered potassium silicate. Agsil 16H seems to be easier to find. So, google Agsil 16H and you'll find plenty of shops on the Internet.
> 
> I do not know of any in Colorado, right now. Although, I'm sure I'll end up carrying it sometime soon.


I might like to buy it from you. As long as you don't try to sell me a used Lotus...


----------



## ACitizenofColorado (Mar 4, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> There's a product banded Zacsil and also one branded Agsil 16H. They are the same powdered potassium silicate. Agsil 16H seems to be easier to find. So, google Agsil 16H and you'll find plenty of shops on the Internet.
> 
> I do not know of any in Colorado, right now. Although, I'm sure I'll end up carrying it sometime soon.


@MisterBlah, when you say you'll carry it, sounds like you have a store. Thanks for your contributions, btw.


----------



## MisterBlah (Mar 4, 2016)

ACitizenofColorado said:


> @MisterBlah, when you say you'll carry it, sounds like you have a store. Thanks for your contributions, btw.


I'm working on getting a business going. So, eventually. 



ttystikk said:


> I might like to buy it from you. As long as you don't try to sell me a used Lotus...


No guarantees on trying to sell you a slightly abused Lotus Elise.  They are great fun!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 5, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> I'm working on getting a business going. So, eventually.
> 
> 
> 
> No guarantees on trying to sell you a slightly abused Lotus Elise.  They are great fun!


That's what I'm afraid of- I am already highly talented at finding plenty of trouble to get into without ever exceeding the speed limit. That thing has 'attractive nuisance' written allllllll over it!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> You sleep yet? Assume everything rocking along just fine eh?


I'd put my money on at least another 12 hours before he contemplates sleep.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sleep? What's that?
> 
> I was up until almost 4, then up again at 5:30, then up for the day at 8. It's 7pm here now and it's Friday night, wtf would I be sleeping for? Lol


Lmfao


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 5, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> I'd put my money on at least another 12 hours before he contemplates sleep.





newgrower89 said:


> Lmfao


Hey now, lots of manic depressive people are highly successful; write when you're manic, edit when you're depressed! Worked for Mark Twain, right? Lol


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey now, lots of manic depressive people are highly successful; write when you're manic, edit when you're depressed! Worked for Mark Twain, right? Lol


 I have my best appifanies when I'm manic. I also just caught a number a couple years ago too! So for me its all about focusing that energy towards something productive.


----------



## pop22 (Mar 5, 2016)

Grossly inefficient......


Waiks said:


> Hows this: www.overclockers.com/the-peltier-radiator/
> 
> Peltier sammiched in between two arctic alpine 11 heatsinks. Hot side has the fan cooling it, cold side is sealed to a water container. Water pump in the container with the input connected to one of these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011U5C62I/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_lyY1wbVX7YBVY
> 
> ...


----------



## pop22 (Mar 5, 2016)

why not insulated the whole res? Reflectix works well and is easy to use.



ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3623039 View attachment 3623040
> 
> And so it begins;
> Morning water temp 59, it will warm up into the mid 60s by lights out.
> ...


----------



## Waiks (Mar 5, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Grossly inefficient......


Agreed 
I like to tinker though. My newest design is a lot more fine tuned. I'll have a write up on here when it's pau.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 5, 2016)

pop22 said:


> why not insulated the whole res? Reflectix works well and is easy to use.


Because I LIKE my RDWC water to warm up every day. Revs up their metabolism!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 5, 2016)

Waiks said:


> Agreed
> I like to tinker though. My newest design is a lot more fine tuned. I'll have a write up on here when it's pau.


I didn't comment on the system before because I wasn't familiar with all the components. In general, simple is robust and reliable. Water need not be complicated as long as circuits are kept straightforward.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 6, 2016)

ty man omg fucking hit me up lol elephants in a green house????????


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 7, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> ty man omg fucking hit me up lol elephants in a green house????????


Whoa dude, I want what you're smoking!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Whoa dude, I want what you're smoking!


One of those times in my younger days when I had been up working for 3-4 days straight and we were driving back to the workshop I saw a pink elephant walk out of the pine trees in front of me. Who says no elephants in Arkansas


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> One of those times in my younger days when I had been up working for 3-4 days straight and we were driving back to the workshop I saw a pink elephant walk out of the pine trees in front of me. Who says no elephants in Arkansas


I used to live in Arkansas. I've seen them.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 8, 2016)

...along with the golf ball sized spiders spinning fifteen foot tall webs in the trees beside the lakes, to catch insects blown in by the breeze.

Yeah, I'm happier back in Colorado, all things considered.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 10, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> btw, I'm waiting with bated breath to see your vertical cob led setup in action...just give me a reason to switch man...


Just do it.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> To explain; first, everyone has their own set of priorities. I understand they differ for different situations, legal environments, desired outcomes, etc.
> 
> As a horticultural systems designer, it's my job to meet the needs of my clients and customers, not dictate what they should be.
> 
> ...


I was just in Washington for a job interview, it looks like I will be moving to Seattle soon, I will know tomorrow. I was vastly underwhelmed with the quality of the recreational dispensary flowers I encountered. I bought several name-brand strains from various growers, all supposedly top shelf. They were uniformly disappointing, the cure was rushed, very obviously. There is a huge opportunity for growers with the sense to run two month cures, in Washington, now if they would just let people get a license to produce it. Their laws are insane, it is a wonder it ever got legalized at all. What a fucking racket they are running, no real competition, totally rigged market. I am ranting.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I was just in Washington for a job interview, it looks like I will be moving to Seattle soon, I will know tomorrow. I was vastly underwhelmed with the quality of the recreational dispensary flowers I encountered. I bought several name-brand strains from various growers, all supposedly top shelf. They were uniformly disappointing, the cure was rushed, very obviously. There is a huge opportunity for growers with the sense to run two month cures, in Washington, now if they would just let people get a license to produce it. Their laws are insane, it is a wonder it ever got legalized at all. What a fucking racket they are running, no real competition, totally rigged market. I am ranting.


Yes, it's a complete mess. But that's how our country 'works' now.

In the short run, there's cash to be made in selling mids to tourists for top dollar. In the longer term, customer is king.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 11, 2016)

For my personal use as a person with traumatic injuries I will get a medical card and grow my little heart out. The commercial aspect is not a regular part of my cannabis relationship, and I like it that way. I will have to give ounces to friends regularly to stay below the possession limit. 

However, if they opened up license applications again, then I would pounce on it like a leopard. Leopards are badass.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

Because I promised a pic;


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Because I promised a pic;
> View attachment 3629172


I like your models. Cant wait to see the softballs on her. multiple her'S


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I like your models. Cant wait to see the softballs on her


Me neither. BTW, there are six ladies in that pic, three to a side.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Me neither. BTW, there are six ladies in that pic, three to a side.


hence why I edited my post above


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> hence why I edited my post above


Another pic;


Those are water lines in the top left of the pic, they're running to the water cooled air handler just out of the frame at the top.


----------



## zep_lover (Mar 11, 2016)

how is the heat load?have you been able to gauge the amount of heat difference between your old lights and these?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 11, 2016)

They dont generate any heat I think is the correct answer. @ttystikk isnt that right


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> how is the heat load?have you been able to gauge the amount of heat difference between your old lights and these?


I replaced 5400W of 860W Allstart lamps on magnetic ballasts with 5400W of COB LED. The heat load isn't appreciably different. The light? Now that's a different story!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> They dont generate any heat I think is the correct answer. @ttystikk isnt that right


This isn't true, even the light emitted turns to heat. It's the same 5400W...


----------



## SomeGuy (Mar 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I replaced 5400W of 860W Allstart lamps on magnetic ballasts with 5400W of COB LED. The heat load isn't appreciably different. The light? Now that's a different story!


Ok. Woah mamma. That's some light. How did the allstarts do? I will eventually drop some coin on decking out my space but it may be a bit before I'm all led. Good going man. 

Can't wait.to see what you built.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Ok. Woah mamma. That's some light. How did the allstarts do? I will eventually drop some coin on decking out my space but it may be a bit before I'm all led. Good going man.
> 
> Can't wait.to see what you built.


The allstart lamps put out about a pound a plant, on average, perhaps a bit more. I'm expecting to see half again that much on average. 

Five years and you'll be seeing them in every well dressed warehouse in the country.


----------



## SomeGuy (Mar 11, 2016)

Is the draw still 1k or is actual draw close to the 860 of the lamp? I would imagine there is some inefficiency in there but I'm guessing they are better than running an hps 1k. 

Cobs are the wave of the growing future for now... Lol. Never know whats coming really.... 

Shit. That's true for life in general.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 11, 2016)

Wonder when a company is going to come out with a 4 chip 200 watt 5000k to compete with the 8 bulb t-5 market. With all the t-5s being sold around the world this would seem to be a huge money maker. I mean half the amps with the same foot print and better photon counts. If a company could get it to market around 270.00-300.00 they'd be rich in minutes.


----------



## SomeGuy (Mar 11, 2016)

Mongo. I built 36" long vero10 bars. 38w each bar running 5vero10 5000k. They Rock. Cheap to build and could go to market at 180$ each. Definitely a t-5 killer


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 11, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Mongo. I built 36" long vero10 bars. 38w each bar running 5vero10 5000k. They Rock. Cheap to build and could go to market at 180$ each. Definitely a t-5 killer


I cant believe no ones brought this to market yet. If 180.00 then its a no brainer. Does your 5000k veg super well?


----------



## SomeGuy (Mar 11, 2016)

Yes. @Mohican has the two bars I made right now to see how he likes them. They do well. I want 4 of them for the 4*4 tent.


----------



## SomeGuy (Mar 11, 2016)

I should add that I previously vegged the 4*4 w just the two. Four would be super charged. Lol


----------



## Waiks (Mar 11, 2016)

That stem. Holy shit! Nice

So the middle wall thing is the rack of cobs? Is the whole area the same foot print as what 3 of your old lights were covering?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Is the draw still 1k or is actual draw close to the 860 of the lamp? I would imagine there is some inefficiency in there but I'm guessing they are better than running an hps 1k.
> 
> Cobs are the wave of the growing future for now... Lol. Never know whats coming really....
> 
> Shit. That's true for life in general.


The total draw is the same 5400W. 5x860W allstart on magnetic- more like 1080W each, between my single phase 240V and the magnetic boat anchors driving them.

Each of my COB modules pulls 225W; 54W to each of 4 COBs and the last 8 or 9 watts for the driver. 824PPfD over a 2'x3' space... times 24 modules. That's good for 56% "plus" efficiency, which rips the doors clean off anything with a light bulb in it by half again or

6x24=144sq ft, can't wait to see what happens next!


a mongo frog said:


> Wonder when a company is going to come out with a 4 chip 200 watt 5000k to compete with the 8 bulb t-5 market. With all the t-5s being sold around the world this would seem to be a huge money maker. I mean half the amps with the same foot print and better photon counts. If a company could get it to market around 270.00-300.00 they'd be rich in minutes.


We can do this for $400 today. It's only a matter of time.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

Waiks said:


> That stem. Holy shit! Nice
> 
> So the middle wall thing is the rack of cobs? Is the whole area the same foot print as what 3 of your old lights were covering?


It's the same 6 plants in the same 6 trellis panels, 4' wide x 6' tall.

It was 5 allstart lamps.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The total draw is the same 5400W. 5x860W allstart on magnetic- more like 1080W each, between my single phase 240V and the magnetic boat anchors driving them.
> 
> Each of my COB modules pulls 225W; 54W to each of 4 COBs and the last 8 or 9 watts for the driver. 824PPfD over a 2'x3' space... times 24 modules. That's good for 56% "plus" efficiency, which rips the doors clean off anything with a light bulb in it by half again or
> 
> ...


400.00 is a little high to crush the T-5 market. I mean T-5's are probably the most bought veg light world wide. And their fucking bulbs always go out its a fucking mess.


----------



## indianajones (Mar 11, 2016)

good. lawd. that is gonna be crazy... how much space between the canopy and COB?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> 400.00 is a little high to crush the T-5 market. I mean T-5's are probably the most bought veg light world wide. And their fucking bulbs always go out its a fucking mess.


I think plenty of people will pay $400 for a light that works better than any other, ever- and NEVER needs replacing.

I mean, how do I explain the fact that my plants EXPLODED when they got COB LED after having grown up under T5?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

indianajones said:


> good. lawd. that is gonna be crazy... how much space between the canopy and COB?


Coupla feets.


----------



## only1realhigh (Mar 12, 2016)

I do hear that, but when I have nice node distance on the main stem and getting the screen filled in, stretch of the node distance is not what I want, I just want the plant to grow more so I have more to fill in the screen. 
Now the ticket is one can get to many buds sites on a plant, hence many little buds to trim and deal with, or one can prune and choose what bud sites to grow and how many, the benefit is the buds on the plant will develop and grow bigger and better.

I just hope the best for all who do like to grow. It is a very rewarding hobby for me, plus I need to keep my med jars full.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I think plenty of people will pay $400 for a light that works better than any other, ever- and NEVER needs replacing.
> 
> I mean, how do I explain the fact that my plants EXPLODED when they got COB LED after having grown up under T5?


I'll pay 800 for 2 . Seriously though, fuck yeah people will pay 400 bucks for a 1 all......I would


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2016)

After a week the growth is lush and they're filling in. Most have grown a leaf set every day. 

I'm not seeing much sign of early budset like I was warned about, but they're healthy and there's no doubt they love the light!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> After a week the growth is lush and they're filling in. Most have grown a leaf set every day.
> 
> I'm not seeing much sign of early budset like I was warned about, but they're healthy and there's no doubt they love the light!


Awesome man....Isnt it just fucking, well awesome, to watch them grow like that. This plant has got us....I could think of worse things to be mesmerized by


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I think plenty of people will pay $400 for a light that works better than any other, ever- and NEVER needs replacing.
> 
> I mean, how do I explain the fact that my plants EXPLODED when they got COB LED after having grown up under T5?



Wow that price makeses person think twice about wholesaling there own from China. 

Johnson grow lights I believe, wanted 1700 for 8 cobs and they leave no cob in the middle. 

What's your suppliers name? If the line is already backed up months by you then don't worry about it. 

It'd just be nice to check a couple out before we decide whether or not to go the alibaba DIY root.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> Wow that price makeses person think twice about wholesaling there own from China.
> 
> Johnson grow lights I believe, wanted 1700 for 8 cobs and they leave no cob in the middle.
> 
> ...


That's one model, it doesn't need a COB in the middle. His Maximizer is the one I'd suggest to replace a thouie. It runs 8 CXB3590 at 75W each, total 600W.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 12, 2016)

Your talking a bout the one that u mentioned for 1700? Or what model? And what does it cost


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 12, 2016)

Oh I think I just smokes the amount of amount of shatter it takes to lose my reading abilities lol. I figured it out.


----------



## pop22 (Mar 12, 2016)

How long do you veg your plants?


ttystikk said:


> It's the same 6 plants in the same 6 trellis panels, 4' wide x 6' tall.
> 
> It was 5 allstart lamps.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2016)

pop22 said:


> How long do you veg your plants?


Up to three months.


----------



## pop22 (Mar 12, 2016)

and what's your flower time for the strains you run? Veg 3 months? Damn! lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2016)

pop22 said:


> and what's your flower time for the strains you run? Veg 3 months? Damn! lol


I run a perpetual so I don't wait that long. 

Bloom runs 8 weeks like usual.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2016)

I just ate the last dinner at the CB&Pott's on Elizabeth st in Ft Collins. They closed it tonight, after over thirty years in the same location.

Pic of Colorado's tallest bar;


End of an era.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 13, 2016)

Today i did the math with another long time patron of Pott's- FORTY TWO years at the same location. 

So it's official; if according to Douglas Adams the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything is 42, we know know the question. 

Enlightenment, served light and fresh!


----------



## Waiks (Mar 13, 2016)

42


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 13, 2016)

Waiks said:


> 42


Don't forget your towel.

The infinite improbability drive is warming up and we'll be ready for departure anytime now. 

Hungry? We can make a quick stop at The Restaurant at the End of the Universe!


----------



## Waiks (Mar 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Don't forget your towel.
> 
> The infinite improbability drive is warming up and we'll be ready for departure anytime now.
> 
> Hungry? We can make a quick stop at The Restaurant at the End of the Universe!


So long, and thanks for all the fish!

One of my favorite books/movies of all time!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 13, 2016)

Waiks said:


> So long, and thanks for all the fish!
> 
> One of my favorite books/movies of all time!


Yes, all 5 in the trilogy.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 13, 2016)

This is why I'm building boxes to feed people on the cheap. Because the Vogons ARE coming.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 13, 2016)

Waiks said:


> 42


'How long was CB&Potts open?'


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I just ate the last dinner at the CB&Pott's on Elizabeth st in Ft Collins. They closed it tonight, after over thirty years in the same location.
> 
> Pic of Colorado's tallest bar;
> View attachment 3630275
> ...


Why did it close?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 13, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Why did it close?


You know I asked. The building is falling apart- the roof beam is split! Apparently lots of other problems. Business has been off for the past year, due they think to increased restaurant competition in the area. 

This was the first location, it's now a mini chain of 6 or 8 locations. All the rest are in ritzy locales between here and Denver, so this one became the exception to the concept. 

Fuckers lost a customer, though; can't get a growler filled at any of them along with a meal. 

...DA FUK?! 

These guys helped pioneer the brewpub restaurant concept in the same town as New Belgium and O'Dell's!

Coopersmith's is still doing it right.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 14, 2016)

Jilly-bean Spears, IMHO a much more attractive young lady than Brittney;


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Jilly-bean Spears, IMHO a much more attractive young lady than Brittney;
> View attachment 3631748


Britney can go fuck herself if I got Jilly hanging about, she doesnt even come close


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 14, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Britney can go fuck herself if I got Jilly hanging about, she doesnt even come close


She smells even better than she looks, eyewateringly potent sweet pine sharpness!

Newcomers to the thread will note that these trellises are all 6' tall by 4' across, with 4" squares, I mention this to help the reader discern scale. Yes, they're even bigger than they look in these postage stamp snapshots.


----------



## SomeGuy (Mar 14, 2016)

I have a Jilly right now that is straight oranges. Your rocking it ty. Good job man. . 

Really beautiful there man.


----------



## Waiks (Mar 14, 2016)

Whats the average distance from the net to the tops of colas? 
Those are some gnarly looking spears


----------



## doniawon (Mar 14, 2016)

Smokin my jilly testers tonight ..very nice


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

Waiks said:


> Whats the average distance from the net to the tops of colas?
> Those are some gnarly looking spears


Net? It's vertical. They're hanging down like an elephant's chubby.


----------



## Waiks (Mar 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Net? It's vertical. They're hanging down like an elephant's chubby.


I could see that! They're hangin all the way to the floor 

I meant
Wall/Screen/Wire Squares to top of colas distance 
Basically, how long are those shlongs


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

Waiks said:


> I could see that! They're hangin all the way to the floor
> 
> I meant
> Wall/Screen/Wire Squares to top of colas distance
> Basically, how long are those shlongs





ttystikk said:


> Newcomers to the thread will note that these trellises are all 6' tall by 4' across, with 4" squares, I mention this to help the reader discern scale. Yes, they're even bigger than they look in these postage stamp snapshots.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> I have a Jilly right now that is straight oranges. Your rocking it ty. Good job man. .
> 
> Really beautiful there man.


Thanks for the kind words brother, yours isn't looking any too shabby, either! 

I'd actually really enjoy an orange scent. This one didn't have that.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

Today's glamour shots of the Children of the COB; 

Left side of Icarus' Hallway; 
 

Right side;


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

Holy Hillbilly Hobby, Bhat-man!


----------



## pop22 (Mar 15, 2016)

what's your opinion on the max production per given area? I ask because I wonder what is the highest density of plant growth a limited area can contain?

I'm thinking that air quality maybe become the most difficult to control, before plant mass does. I'm looking at 4x4 or 4x8 spaces not commercial areas.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

pop22 said:


> what's your opinion on the max production per given area? I ask because I wonder what is the highest density of plant growth a limited area can contain?
> 
> I'm thinking that air quality maybe become the most difficult to control, before plant mass does. I'm looking at 4x4 or 4x8 spaces not commercial areas.


I think it's open ended. If conditions can be kept under control, density can get very high indeed. Of course that's the key limitation, isn't it? 

What kind of air quality are you concerned about? Heat? Moisture? Air flow?


----------



## pop22 (Mar 15, 2016)

I was thinking that airflow is the control factor for heat and moisture. drawing air in, vs airflow thru the canopy. I ask because I can envision multiple vertical screens and would need to figure minimum spacing to get good air movement thru the canopy. I'm thinking I can run 3 vertical screens in a 4'x4'x6'6 tent. 4 might be possible but spacing and airflow would need to be addressed. I can see however, the density you could achieve on a commercial scale!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I was thinking that airflow is the control factor for heat and moisture. drawing air in, vs airflow thru the canopy. I ask because I can envision multiple vertical screens and would need to figure minimum spacing to get good air movement thru the canopy. I'm thinking I can run 3 vertical screens in a 4'x4'x6'6 tent. 4 might be possible but spacing and airflow would need to be addressed. I can see however, the density you could achieve on a commercial scale!


No reason you can't run plants on all four sides of your tent, you just need some way to gain access inside. The airflow is the same. Draw cool air in the bottom and exhaust warm moist air out the top.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 15, 2016)

How did I miss this thread!

Elephant dicks!!!

   

    



Cheers,
Mo


----------



## ODanksta (Mar 17, 2016)

Hey Tty next thursday lets go check out the warehouse.. I would be down for tomorrow/today but unfortunately I'm not in right mindset to drive.. 

But I know you want to go.. And I do too.. Hell I haven't seen Texas Kid in about 10 years..


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

Time to throw up a few pics of the rest of that rack of goodness;


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

ODanksta said:


> Hey Tty next thursday lets go check out the warehouse.. I would be down for tomorrow/today but unfortunately I'm not in right mindset to drive..
> 
> But I know you want to go.. And I do too.. Hell I haven't seen Texas Kid in about 10 years..


I have plans for tomorrow anyway, I'm down for next week, bro! Let's do it for sure!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

Say goodbye to those fucking Allstart lamps. They're in the process of being replaced by COB LED. Every goddamned power sucking, misleadingly labeled one of them. Ask me how I REALLY feel, LOL

Fuckers pissed me off so much I'm starting my own line of COB LED lighting. So for that, perhaps I should thank them...


----------



## ODanksta (Mar 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I have plans for tomorrow anyway, I'm down for next week, bro! Let's do it for sure!


Cool I'll have to pick you up early.. Probably 7 or 8 so we can make it denver in time.. 

But yeah lets plan on next thursday morning..


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

ODanksta said:


> Cool I'll have to pick you up early.. Probably 7 or 8 so we can make it denver in time..
> 
> But yeah lets plan on next thursday morning..


Deal. We'll make it an adventure Hunter S. Thompson would be proud of!


----------



## ODanksta (Mar 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Say goodbye to those fucking Allstart lamps. They're in the process of being replaced by COB LED. Every goddamned power sucking, misleadingly labeled one of them. Ask me how I REALLY feel, LOL
> 
> Fuckers pissed me off so much I'm starting my own line of COB LED lighting. So for that, perhaps I should thank them...


How long have you been flowering under the cobs? 

In my experience, my led grow was more frosty then the HID's.. We just needed more penetration. 

So my brother is saying the #'s for those 315cmh are the best.. Meh I think they do great for veg.. But I don't know about flower..

And fuck it, let him buy yours so I can have my lights back lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

ODanksta said:


> How long have you been flowering under the cobs?
> 
> In my experience, my led grow was more frosty then the HID's.. We just needed more penetration.
> 
> ...


Ten whole days now, lol

I'm expecting similar frost to my 860W results. MOAR YIELD, though! 

What numbers for the 315W? They aren't the most efficient lighting system, and they aren't the best UV sources, either. 

I'm getting mine wired up to go into my veg room tomorrow, anyway.


----------



## ODanksta (Mar 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ten whole days now, lol
> 
> I'm expecting similar frost to my 860W results. MOAR YIELD, though!
> 
> ...


Yeah I remember you saying that they kinda suck. I've had great results vegging peppers and other random plants with them, but never tried them with MJ.. 

So your doing your veg room in all 315w?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

ODanksta said:


> Yeah I remember you saying that they kinda suck. I've had great results vegging peppers and other random plants with them, but never tried them with MJ..
> 
> So your doing your veg room in all 315w?


Yes, two will replace each Allstart and one will replace each 600W HPS. This will give just about the equivalent amount of PAR. If that isn't enough, I can run up to ten kits in that room and still be pulling fewer watts than I am now!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Time to throw up a few pics of the rest of that rack of goodness;
> View attachment 3634066
> 
> View attachment 3634067





ttystikk said:


> Deal. We'll make it an adventure Hunter S. Thompson would be proud of!


Make sure you tell us about that afterwards!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> Make sure you tell us about that afterwards!


You might have to buy the book, cuz it's gonna be EPIC!


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Mar 17, 2016)

Big ol' Tittysticks. Damn.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 17, 2016)

What's up tty? I want to call you "titty stick.". 

I am getting everything together to get a hemp license. Might be some fun.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Big ol' Tittysticks. Damn.


Lol. I want to say that to every time I see his handle.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Big ol' Tittysticks. Damn.





whitebb2727 said:


> What's up tty? I want to call you "titty stick.".
> 
> I am getting everything together to get a hemp license. Might be some fun.





whitebb2727 said:


> Lol. I want to say that to every time I see his handle.


Now you know why the ladies love me!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

Reposted from another thread, because I want to say it everywhere people will read my words; 

I had a good conversation with the local police (last spring). They were very clear, indeed; because I'm following the law and have given up my right to be armed in my home due to a medical grow, the detective looked me in the eye and told me they'd take anyone breaking into my home and stealing a controlled substance 'very, very seriously', the hint in context being that they understand that if we aren't gonna be armed, they need to be allllllll over it. The gleam in his eye told me that no one who doesn't like eating lead should come fucking with people's grows in Colorado. Not worth your life.

If someone is in need of weed, for medical reasons, JUST ASK! Goddammit, I'm fucking drowning in stuff to help those in need! DON'T come at me with force.

I've fucking lost count of how much I've given away to those of bona fide medical necessity, and my bar isn't very high. I LIKE helping people, I WANT to help those who are suffering. And, I can easily accommodate it, so I'd feel like a real live drooling asshole if I wasn't willing to help out.

You a veteran with PTSD, got a bum foot or anxiety issues? Can't sleep? Dealing with people bugs/scares the shit out of you? Let me help. Candy, edibles, smoke, dabs, trim, whatever I can do to ease your suffering, I'm happy to do it.

It's easy to tell the difference between freeloaders and those who really need it; the ones who need it are embarrassed to admit it. Isn't that sad? That's what our society has created. Despicable they should be made to feel that way, so I'm going to set a new and better example. 

They don't WANT to be seen to be sponging off of someone. These... these are my people. These are the ones I'll stand with and help any way I can. My turn is coming... we're all human. And mortal. If I spread enough love and relief, maybe I'll get some back in my time of need. And even if I don't, the satisfaction of having helped others will always be foremost in my thoughts.

Peace, my friends.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 17, 2016)

I cant speak of the gun situation as I been gone for a minute and it was never ever ever even thought to be legal in louisiana until those $$$$ started to be seen elsewhere. Still gonna be a minute. 

"If someone is in need of weed, for medical reasons, JUST ASK! Goddammit, I'm fucking drowning in stuff to help those in need! DON'T come at me with force.

I've fucking lost count of how much I've given away to those of bona fide medical necessity, and my bar isn't very high. I LIKE helping people, I WANT to help those who are suffering. And, I can easily accommodate it, so I'd feel like a real live drooling asshole if I wasn't willing to help out.

You a veteran with PTSD, got a bum foot or anxiety issues? Can't sleep? Dealing with people bugs/scares the shit out of you? Let me help. Candy, edibles, smoke, dabs, trim, whatever I can do to ease your suffering, I'm happy to do it.

It's easy to tell the difference between freeloaders and those who really need it; the ones who need it are embarrassed to admit it. Isn't that sad? That's what our society has created. Despicable they should be made to feel that way, so I'm going to set a new and better example. 

They don't WANT to be seen to be sponging off of someone. These... these are my people. These are the ones I'll stand with and help any way I can. My turn is coming... we're all human. And mortal. If I spread enough love and relief, maybe I'll get some back in my time of need. And even if I don't, the satisfaction of having helped others will always be foremost in my thoughts."


Dude I certainly echo your thoughts/words above. I think, no I know, that this plant we do everything for (basically) has shaped those thoughts and my own. Also hasnt hurt that we have lived in other countries and seen some wonderful sites and some very shitty sites (and I can speak for myself only on this one, but can imagine you have as well). All about paying it forward. Create enough positive energy to outweigh any negativity; drown that shit out


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I cant speak of the gun situation as I been gone for a minute and it was never ever ever even thought to be legal in louisiana until those $$$$ started to be seen elsewhere. Still gonna be a minute.
> 
> "If someone is in need of weed, for medical reasons, JUST ASK! Goddammit, I'm fucking drowning in stuff to help those in need! DON'T come at me with force.
> 
> ...


It's what I've done long enough for it to be who I am. It's nice to know so many others feel the same way as I do.


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

This is that same Jillybean, trimmed and curing. Yep, still the same 4" squares, for scale- that's 3 squares to a foot;


----------



## GroErr (Mar 18, 2016)

^^^^^ Double Like ^^^^^ outstanding


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## a mongo frog (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This is that same Jillybean, trimmed and curing. Yep, still the same 4" squares, for scale- that's 3 squares to a foot;
> View attachment 3635021


Dude you get really creative with that weaved wire fencing. Fucking awesome!!!!!


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## Mohican (Mar 18, 2016)

Nice haul! How does it smell?


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Nice haul! How does it smell?


Like a pine tree fell on you, lol


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## pop22 (Mar 18, 2016)

I feel the same way. I grow for my lady to help with her MS. I keep a little to vape/smoke for me and give the rest to friends and family, especially those for who are medically in need. Its my only reason for wanting to increase my yields, so i have more to give away!

And give up your firearms to grow? man that's both scary and so wrong. You and I both know the cops only show up in time to clean up the mess! What fucking horseshit! But There's a way around that too. I have a .357 cal AIRGUN ya wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of! And its an effective small to medium game rifle for hunting. Many years ago I jumped an armed assailant and disarmed him before he could hurt anyone one. I swore that after that, I would never face an armed assailant unarmed myself EVER again!




ttystikk said:


> Reposted from another thread, because I want to say it everywhere people will read my words;
> 
> I had a good conversation with the local police (last spring). They were very clear, indeed; because I'm following the law and have given up my right to be armed in my home due to a medical grow, the detective looked me in the eye and told me they'd take anyone breaking into my home and stealing a controlled substance 'very, very seriously', the hint in context being that they understand that if we aren't gonna be armed, they need to be allllllll over it. The gleam in his eye told me that no one who doesn't like eating lead should come fucking with people's grows in Colorado. Not worth your life.
> 
> ...


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## newgrower89 (Mar 18, 2016)

Any of them smell like a fruit tree fell on you? Lol


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## RM3 (Mar 18, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I feel the same way. I grow for my lady to help with her MS. I keep a little to vape/smoke for me and give the rest to friends and family, especially those for who are medically in need. Its my only reason for wanting to increase my yields, so i have more to give away!
> 
> And give up your firearms to grow? man that's both scary and so wrong. You and I both know the cops only show up in time to clean up the mess! What fucking horseshit! But There's a way around that too. I have a .357 cal AIRGUN ya wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of! And its an effective small to medium game rifle for hunting. Many years ago I jumped an armed assailant and disarmed him before he could hurt anyone one. I swore that after that, I would never face an armed assailant unarmed myself EVER again!


@pop22 you in Colorado ?

I ask because I just made a strain (I'm a breeder) for an MS patient and named it after her, Heidi's Unicorn. Growing the 1st one now


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I feel the same way. I grow for my lady to help with her MS. I keep a little to vape/smoke for me and give the rest to friends and family, especially those for who are medically in need. Its my only reason for wanting to increase my yields, so i have more to give away!
> 
> And give up your firearms to grow? man that's both scary and so wrong. You and I both know the cops only show up in time to clean up the mess! What fucking horseshit! But There's a way around that too. I have a .357 cal AIRGUN ya wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of! And its an effective small to medium game rifle for hunting. Many years ago I jumped an armed assailant and disarmed him before he could hurt anyone one. I swore that after that, I would never face an armed assailant unarmed myself EVER again!


When someone reports an armed robbery in Ft Collins, the cops go straight batshit; lockdown the neighborhood, go door to door, post up at all the intersections, it's happened once or twice. They take that shit seriously, because it's ordinarily very safe here and gun crimes are relatively rare. I fully understand that good policing is not the norm everywhere, and I think that we as citizens in our communities should be far more insistent about it.


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> Any of them smell like a fruit tree fell on you? Lol


Bubblegum smells like you're standing in a baseball card factory- at the gum line.


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

Chem Sour Diesel smells like you're following a truck down the freeway with scorched grocery bags stuck to its exhaust.


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## Mohican (Mar 18, 2016)

I had a Bubble Gum smelling Mulanje. It was like being in a gumball machine.
The funny thing is that it smelled like cat-piss when it dried!


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

Mohican said:


> I had a Bubble Gum smelling Mulanje. It was like being in a gumball machine.
> The funny thing is that it smelled like cat-piss when it dried!


Mine always smells like bubblegum. Sometimes gets a rancid, stuck to your shoe kind of funk.


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## pop22 (Mar 18, 2016)

unfortunately, i'm not in a legal state ( yet may move pending outcome of a measure in another state )

And that's awesome about your strain! I've been working a cross of my own for 2 years now. In fact, my strain seems to be very popular! I'm constantly being asked when I'll have more. got to love it! And it was not an intentional cross. it was made just to provide me with some seed for greenhouse growing. It just happened to be a great cross, i can only take credit for working it to F5.



RM3 said:


> @pop22 you in Colorado ?
> 
> I ask because I just made a strain (I'm a breeder) for an MS patient and named it after her, Heidi's Unicorn. Growing the 1st one now


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 18, 2016)

RM3 said:


> @pop22 you in Colorado ?
> 
> I ask because I just made a strain (I'm a breeder) for an MS patient and named it after her, Heidi's Unicorn. Growing the 1st one now


That's awesome! 
I gave a quite a bit of my crop to a good friend who is a VietNam Vet and has MS.
I gave away 1.5 pounds or so this year, only grew about 2lb. Sold 0. Feels good.
I just love to grow, and I'm not in a friendly place, so I stay small and give to those who need and those I love.


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

RM3 said:


> @pop22 you in Colorado ?
> 
> I ask because I just made a strain (I'm a breeder) for an MS patient and named it after her, Heidi's Unicorn. Growing the 1st one now


My father's wife has MS. They live in KS and a much as they used to enjoy the weed in their younger days, they're both right wing nuts who look down on it now. Makes me sad.


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## Mohican (Mar 18, 2016)

The last two times I have gotten my rec renewed, there were old people in the waiting room. When they find out how much better they feel with this medicine they all change their minds.


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## a mongo frog (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My father's wife has MS. They live in KS and a much as they used to enjoy the weed in their younger days, they're both right wing nuts who look down on it now. Makes me sad.


Whats a right wing nut?


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## newgrower89 (Mar 18, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Whats a right wing nut?


Its one of those fucking idiots that goes to church on Sunday, and acts like an arrogant asshole the rest of the week. And they honestly believe lowering taxes for corporations will help get then a better job. Do you need me to continue?


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

Mohican said:


> The last two times I have gotten my rec renewed, there were old people in the waiting room. When they find out how much better they feel with this medicine they all change their minds.


That's exactly what drives me crazy; they DID smoke, now they don't? Stupid.


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> Its one of those fucking idiots that goes to church on Sunday, and acts like an arrogant asshole the rest of the week. And they honestly believe lowering taxes for corporations will help get then a better job. Do you need me to continue?


It's frightening how well you're describing my father. He became catholic later in life, because his wife's family is catholic. Them he wants me to just put it on like a suit of clothes, like he apparently did. 

...WTF?


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## newgrower89 (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's exactly what drives me crazy; they DID smoke, now they don't? Stupid.


They must have seen reefer madness and thought it was real! Lmfao


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> They must have seen reefer madness and thought it was real! Lmfao


They were both flower children in the 60s, free love is how I came to be lol


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## newgrower89 (Mar 18, 2016)

Does the ballast work? Lol you said you'd get back to me I started drinking some of those red IPA and forgot!


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## newgrower89 (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They were both flower children in the 60s, free love is how I came to be lol


Lol my parents made my middle name Estes. I hear you!


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> Does the ballast work? Lol you said you'd get back to me I started drinking some of those red IPA and forgot!


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## newgrower89 (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3635359


My dad may be an alcoholic but he can still wire or build anything lol


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## newgrower89 (Mar 18, 2016)

Everything is just so fucking fantastic. As soon as those first plants come in at anything over 2# we need to hit the ground running with big time marketing and manufacturing!


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## bluntmassa1 (Mar 18, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Is the draw still 1k or is actual draw close to the 860 of the lamp? I would imagine there is some inefficiency in there but I'm guessing they are better than running an hps 1k.
> 
> Cobs are the wave of the growing future for now... Lol. Never know whats coming really....
> 
> Shit. That's true for life in general.


I got my money on the sun being the future of lighting once fully legal nation wide. May be more greenhouse's but you can grow some dank ass buds under the sun. Only few will make it warehouse growing IMO but I have been wrong before.


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## newgrower89 (Mar 18, 2016)

bluntmassa1 said:


> I got my money on the sun being the future of lighting once fully legal nation wide. May be more greenhouse's but you can grow some dank ass buds under the sun. Only few will make it warehouse growing IMO but I have been wrong before.


That's how I'm going to learn! There are 10+ lb plants in Colorado in hydroponic greenhouses. Better than anything Cali can imagine. High elevation. Plants love greenhouses! I am in no way knocking ty's innovative skills. At the end of the day stupid people are going to spend millions on warehouses! But smart people will spend 20grand on a greenhouse that grows better weed with no lights after veg!


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## bluntmassa1 (Mar 18, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> That's how I'm going to learn! There are 10+ lb plants in Colorado in hydroponic greenhouses. Better than anything Cali can imagine. High elevation. Plants love greenhouses! I am in no way knocking ty's innovative skills. At the end of the day stupid people are going to spend millions on warehouses! But smart people will spend 20grand on a greenhouse that grows better weed with no lights after veg!


Most all will make their money back plus some but in the end greenhouse's will take over for the most part. I would buy dank outdoor myself anyways no point spending extra just look who sells the most whiskey probably Jack Daniels not many people are going to pay for Johny Walker Blue Label may be a little better but for the money Jack Daniels is just fine. 

But nothing wrong with warehouse growing give Ty a few years he will be in a damn good position to buy land and greenhouses. So in the end them warehouse growers are still going to give us competition they are going to have millions the good ones anyway.


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## a mongo frog (Mar 18, 2016)

bluntmassa1 said:


> I got my money on the sun being the future of lighting once fully legal nation wide. May be more greenhouse's but you can grow some dank ass buds under the sun. Only few will make it warehouse growing IMO but I have been wrong before.


What about non warehouse gardens? Will they be ok?


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## bluntmassa1 (Mar 18, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> What about non warehouse gardens? Will they be ok?


Personal grows sure but you ain't going to make a living on it but we still have a good 10 years before it gets that big. But I imagine it will be like brewing your own beer you can do it but it's easy enough to just buy a 12 pack. Of course people will probably be more likely to grow weed though cause I know a lot more people who grow tomatoes than brew beer. I don't know anyone who brews beer. Lol


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

bluntmassa1 said:


> Personal grows sure but you ain't going to make a living on it but we still have a good 10 years before it gets that big. But I imagine it will be like brewing your own beer you can do it but it's easy enough to just buy a 12 pack. Of course people will probably be more likely to grow weed though cause I know a lot more people who grow tomatoes than brew beer. I don't know anyone who brews beer. Lol


I know several people who enjoy brewing their own beer. Some of them do it near their grow rooms and use the naturally produced carbonation to supplement in their grows.


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## a mongo frog (Mar 18, 2016)

bluntmassa1 said:


> Personal grows sure but you ain't going to make a living on it but we still have a good 10 years before it gets that big. But I imagine it will be like brewing your own beer you can do it but it's easy enough to just buy a 12 pack. Of course people will probably be more likely to grow weed though cause I know a lot more people who grow tomatoes than brew beer. I don't know anyone who brews beer. Lol


So your saying these big corporation farms that could be built are going to be producing the super fire? i mean in california its already legal. has been for the last 7-8 years.


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> So your saying these big corporation farms that could be built are going to be producing the super fire? i mean in california its already legal. has been for the last 7-8 years.


Some of them do produce the fire already. Others are learning how to maximize profit the old fashioned way, thru volume. All avenues are being tried, and customers are rapidly getting used to a new landscape of choices. No one, not even they, know what will be available or popular two, five and certainly not ten years from now. 

In addition, improvements will keep coming to the growing space. Those who cling to old ideas and approaches will eventually get crushed by others who invest in technology early and reap the rewards.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Some of them do produce the fire already. Others are learning how to maximize profit the old fashioned way, thru volume. All avenues are being tried, and customers are rapidly getting used to a new landscape of choices. No one, not even they, know what will be available or popular two, five and certainly not ten years from now.
> 
> In addition, improvements will keep coming to the growing space. Those who cling to old ideas and approaches will eventually get crushed by others who invest in technology early and reap the rewards.


I don't think volume will beat quality when were talking about corporations vs home gardens. Its being done here in cali and B grade stuff just sits. Now technology yes for sure i see that happening, but prices are sky high right now medically. And the only way new school technology will beat old school technology is if some how prices drop. Just my thoughts though.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I don't think volume will beat quality when were talking about corporations vs home gardens. Its being done here in cali and B grade stuff just sits. Now technology yes for sure i see that happening, but prices are sky high right now medically. And the only way new school technology will beat old school technology is if some how prices drop. Just my thoughts though.


New school tech beats the old school stuff the minute the numbers make sense. 

'Some how prices drop'... they're lower than ever and inexorably headed down. 

Grade B stuff is a commodity grade, isn't it? So why isn't grade A also a commodity product? And, can't B be blasted or concentrated so its value is preserved? 

No one is trying to kill all the home gardens, certainly not me. I'm trying to bring the overhead of indoor cultivation down, period. The stakes are much higher than spot pot prices.


----------



## bluntmassa1 (Mar 18, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I don't think volume will beat quality when were talking about corporations vs home gardens. Its being done here in cali and B grade stuff just sits. Now technology yes for sure i see that happening, but prices are sky high right now medically. And the only way new school technology will beat old school technology is if some how prices drop. Just my thoughts though.


I doubt it is impossible to have volume and quality. Not to mention that B grade does move everything out of CA is B grade in New England.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> New school tech beats the old school stuff the minute the numbers make sense.
> 
> 'Some how prices drop'... they're lower than ever and inexorably headed down.
> 
> ...


What is spot pot prices?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> New school tech beats the old school stuff the minute the numbers make sense.
> 
> 'Some how prices drop'... they're lower than ever and inexorably headed down.
> 
> ...


^YES


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> What is spot pot prices?


What the stakes are higher than;

Sooner or later, humanity is going to be faced with the choice of eating out of a box or starving. I'm trying to make sure we get to make that choice at all.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

bluntmassa1 said:


> I doubt it is impossible to have volume and quality. Not to mention that B grade does move everything out of CA is B grade in New England.


...with no stops in Colorado cuz we won't abide that schwag, lol

Of course it's possible to improve both quality and volume simultaneously, and again, it's INEVITABLE. I'll do it or someone else will. The customer will demand it.

Can only soak up so much cali B grade in hash and brownies, after all...


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> ...with no stops in Colorado cuz we won't abide that schwag, lol
> 
> Of course it's possible to improve both quality and volume simultaneously, and again, it's INEVITABLE. I'll do it or someone else will. The customer will demand it.
> 
> Can only soak up so much cali B grade in hash and brownies, after all...


The costumer is already demanding A grade and has been. The sales pitch is obviously being had in i guess New England as was said in the other post. The oldest trick in the book is to tell people this is "Cali" bud. Any yes a vast majority of Colorado legal rec smoke is weak sauce and same with washington state. The med gardeners are holding it down i guarantee it. I mean its all over the tv every other cannabis show is about the recreational industry. There shits weak. Even members here won't go near that shit. and not even for 120 a zip.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> The costumer is already demanding A grade and has been. The sales pitch is obviously being had in i guess New England as was said in the other post. The oldest trick in the book is to tell people this is "Cali" bud. Any yes a vast majority of Colorado legal rec smoke is weak sauce and same with washington state. The med gardeners are holding it down i guarantee it. I mean its all over the tv every other cannabis show is about the recreational industry. There shits weak. Even members here won't go near that shit. and not even for 120 a zip.


Rec is where Colorado B grade goes, right before it goes to Kansas, Wyoming, Nebraska... it's going to be that way until more states are legal than not, at which point the arbitrage trade will dry up and the price crunch will be on in earnest.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Rec is where Colorado B grade goes, right before it goes to Kansas, Wyoming, Nebraska... it's going to be that way until more states are legal than not, at which point the arbitrage trade will dry up and the price crunch will be on in earnest.


I know and realize that money dictates most all, but cant understand why its so hard to have nothing but solid A grade, organically, or at least semi organically grown weed whether indoor, greenhouse, or outdoor. Its not hard to produce A grade weed simply with minimal inputs but water and sun (light).


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I know and realize that money dictates most all, but cant understand why its so hard to have nothing but solid A grade, organically, or at least semi organically grown weed whether indoor, greenhouse, or outdoor. Its not hard to produce A grade weed simply with minimal inputs but water and sun (light).


Because people don't put in the time and effort it takes i believe. And the finishing part of the game is where most A grade turns into B really fast. If one has a decent size garden and grew some beautiful lush green plants and they don't know how to finish its game over. What was so easy to water and watch grow becomes a disaster when it comes time to finish (Chop, hang, dry and cure). Happens all the time and people drop out.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I know and realize that money dictates most all, but cant understand why its so hard to have nothing but solid A grade, organically, or at least semi organically grown weed whether indoor, greenhouse, or outdoor. Its not hard to produce A grade weed simply with minimal inputs but water and sun (light).


What mongo just said, plus it's impossible to produce a uniformly high quality of a natural product. You can and certainly should endeavor to grow the best you can, but not all of it will come out that way despite best efforts.

In a production situation, some is A, some is B, the rest goes into the hash bin or the trash can.

Turns out that growing isn't easy, and growing fire is pretty tough. Growing fire consistently is a pro's game for sure, and even then shit happens.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 18, 2016)

I agree with you both. You get out what you put in. And it helps to start with quality genetics too then its easier.


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I agree with you both. You get out what you put in. And it helps to start with quality genetics too then its easier.


Legal weed means that you must have the best of everything to compete. Great seeds is only the beginning; every major dispensary has a breeding program. They do several jobs including getting and proving new strains, pheno hunting the best of the best from other breeders and then of course running their own breeding programs, some of which can be pretty impressive.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Some of them do produce the fire already. Others are learning how to maximize profit the old fashioned way, thru volume. All avenues are being tried, and customers are rapidly getting used to a new landscape of choices. No one, not even they, know what will be available or popular two, five and certainly not ten years from now.
> 
> In addition, improvements will keep coming to the growing space. Those who cling to old ideas and approaches will eventually get crushed by others who invest in technology early and reap the rewards.


Can you hear that? Its money flowing through pipes.... Lol


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 19, 2016)

I agree that


ttystikk said:


> ...with no stops in Colorado cuz we won't abide that schwag, lol
> 
> Of course it's possible to improve both quality and volume simultaneously, and again, it's INEVITABLE. I'll do it or someone else will. The customer will demand it.
> 
> Can only soak up so much cali B grade in hash and brownies, after all...


I agree that as a whole Colorado's weed is better than Cali's. I think high times said we had 7 out of the 10 most potent strains tested. But I am truly sick of the Cali Colorado argument. You can grow bomb weed anywhere! I'm sure there's some shit growing in every RED zero tolerance state that is the best of the best. That being said. I'll definitely stay here in paradise.. Fuck Cali weed lol


----------



## pop22 (Mar 19, 2016)

blame 90 years of government propaganda for their believes........... Maybe you could get them to watch Run From The Cure


ttystikk said:


> My father's wife has MS. They live in KS and a much as they used to enjoy the weed in their younger days, they're both right wing nuts who look down on it now. Makes me sad.


----------



## pop22 (Mar 19, 2016)

Its organized religion that should be against the law....... Believe in god is one thing, all the bullshit spread by the books used in organized religion is whats criminal!

And as they say, you can pick your own poison!



ttystikk said:


> It's frightening how well you're describing my father. He became catholic later in life, because his wife's family is catholic. Them he wants me to just put it on like a suit of clothes, like he apparently did.
> 
> ...WTF?


----------



## pop22 (Mar 19, 2016)

I'm from that generation. I was smart enough to keep the weed and avoid the religion like the plague!



ttystikk said:


> They were both flower children in the 60s, free love is how I came to be lol


----------



## pop22 (Mar 19, 2016)

Now that's the best statement I've read in a forum yet!



ttystikk said:


> Some of them do produce the fire already. Others are learning how to maximize profit the old fashioned way, thru volume. All avenues are being tried, and customers are rapidly getting used to a new landscape of choices. No one, not even they, know what will be available or popular two, five and certainly not ten years from now.
> 
> In addition, improvements will keep coming to the growing space. Those who cling to old ideas and approaches will eventually get crushed by others who invest in technology early and reap the rewards.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Mar 19, 2016)

how about some cobbing photo's?

and religion is ok until man gets ahold of it


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 19, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> I agree that
> 
> 
> I agree that as a whole Colorado's weed is better than Cali's. I think high times said we had 7 out of the 10 most potent strains tested. But I am truly sick of the Cali Colorado argument. You can grow bomb weed anywhere! I'm sure there's some shit growing in every RED zero tolerance state that is the best of the best. That being said. I'll definitely stay here in paradise.. Fuck Cali weed lol


Its the same everywhere. Your going to have great, good and bad gardeners everywhere.


----------



## BobBitchen (Mar 19, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> I agree that
> 
> 
> I agree that as a whole Colorado's weed is better than Cali's. I think high times said we had 7 out of the 10 most potent strains tested. But I am truly sick of the Cali Colorado argument. That being said. I'll definitely stay here in paradise.. Fuck Cali weed lol


Must be the thin Colorado air messing with your judgment . ..lol...


----------



## Mohican (Mar 19, 2016)

I have had great weed (epic) in CA, CO, NC and HI. It is everywhere. There are also bunk and ripoff weed everywhere. As Mr. Brady taught us - Caveat Emptor!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2016)

BobBitchen said:


> Must be the thin Colorado air messing with your judgment . ..lol...


Yeah, tell us some more about thin air, ya ski bum!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 19, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'm from that generation. I was smart enough to keep the weed and avoid the religion like the plague!





ttystikk said:


> Yeah, tell us some more about thin air, ya ski bum!


Can't we all just take massive dabs and get along! Lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> Can't we all just take massive dabs and get along! Lol


Who says we aren't?


----------



## kiwipaulie (Mar 19, 2016)

bluntmassa1 said:


> I got my money on the sun being the future of lighting once fully legal nation wide. May be more greenhouse's but you can grow some dank ass buds under the sun. Only few will make it warehouse growing IMO but I have been wrong before.


I think you are spot on. If the law changes down here, we will be growing hydro In green houses, just like we do tomatoes.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> I think you are spot on. If the law changes down here, we will be growing hydro In green houses, just like we do tomatoes.


Exactly so! Which means that sooner or later, it WILL be. And it will be done well.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Exactly so! Which means that sooner or later, it WILL be. And it will be done well.


I still don't understand why this is? Or any different to every years outdoor crops. Where most people live in california every third house has an out door garden and always has.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I still don't understand why this is? Or any different to every years outdoor crops. Where most people live in california every third house has an out door garden and always has.


Yup, and where does it go? Does it stay in the neighborhood?


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yup, and where does it go? Does it stay in the neighborhood?


I don't know about stuff like that.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I don't know about stuff like that.


Oh, come on. Of course not! 'Exports' are where the demand comes from, and that's what props up the price.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Oh, come on. Of course not! 'Exports' are where the demand comes from, and that's what props up the price.


Oh that..........


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Oh that..........


Yes, that. Because without that, it wouldn't be worth so much.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yes, that. Because without that, it wouldn't be worth so much.


Prohibition is what has propped up the price. Cant wait for that shit to fuck off.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yes, that. Because without that, it wouldn't be worth so much.


And therefore, once it's legal everywhere, it won't be worth that much anywhere.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 19, 2016)

I mean there will still be a "market" for connoiseur stuff, just like with wine and scotch and such, but yep tomato prices mostly


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Prohibition is what has propped up the price. Cant wait for that shit to fuck off.


Same here. Top quality buds will be a few hundred a pound. People who need it will be able to get it. Producers will be forced to be efficient. That will drive an industry dedicated to driving down the cost of indoor cultivation. That will in turn make it possible to feed people from places where it was heretofore impossible.


----------



## GreenLogician (Mar 19, 2016)

I recently heard that if we get rid of prohibition, it would be best for humanity's carbon footprint if we basically give up on indoor cultivation, moving to using the Sun to grow.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 19, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> I recently heard that if we get rid of prohibition, it would be best for humanity's carbon footprint if we basically give up on indoor cultivation, moving to using the Sun to grow.


Our polluting of the atmosphere causing temperatures to rise will drive this at a later stage certainly


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> I recently heard that if we get rid of prohibition, it would be best for humanity's carbon footprint if we basically give up on indoor cultivation, moving to using the Sun to grow.


Based on current methods, yes. Those current methods will be undergoing a revolution in the next few years, one of drastically improved efficiency and productivity. 

That suggestion also ignores some important facts on the ground, such as that ground being covered by pavement and buildings and therefore not accessible for farming. People are increasingly living in places only marginally suitable for farming or just outright inhospitable. Besides, isn't the use of renewable energy to run your growroom basically the same thing?


----------



## bluntmassa1 (Mar 20, 2016)

GreenLogician said:


> I recently heard that if we get rid of prohibition, it would be best for humanity's carbon footprint if we basically give up on indoor cultivation, moving to using the Sun to grow.


Only problem is you will spend over $50k on a nice greenhouse not the best to grow 3 crops a year and you still produce a carbon footprint just on manufacturing them then you need cooling, heating and grow lights. So professional greenhouse's are going to use power. Sure you can build cheap ones just pray you don't have any backyard pollen chuckers around (guilty). Lol, Along with 1 crop per year so you would need about 3 times the greenhouse space along with a team of seasonal trimmers and curing. I can water and plant all 3 greenhouse's until I got to harvest that's when the work begins.

We do have a long way too at least 4 more years if Bernie Sanders don't win.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 20, 2016)

Dogs have a bigger carbon footprint than a four wheel drive.
So do kids. Maybe we ought to have fewer dogs and brats?

Or maybe existing industrial polluters ought to be regulated in meaningful ways, for once.
Or maybe, just maybe, we'll lose our beach houses and seaports and have to learn new ways to adapt (again).

It should be clear now that we as a species haven't given enough of a shit in time to mitigate this change (climate) very well, if at all.

Sometimes we don't get to choose.

Speaking of things we'll have to adapt to as a species, how about the *inevitable Full-Margin Rupture of the Cascadia Subduction Zone?*

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one

http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2012/jul/13-year-cascadia-study-complete-–-and-earthquake-risk-looms-large

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neskowin_Ghost_Forest/
Sleep tight, PNW.







Happy 1st day of spring, everyone!


----------



## bluntmassa1 (Mar 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Besides, isn't the use of renewable energy to run your growroom basically the same thing?


Would be great but you will probably pay more for solar than a greenhouse for a large op but you do use a lot of power in a greenhouse and you need lights anyway so yeah investing in solar ain't bad as well as better lighting technology. After all the prices will drop so much the little man won't be able to make enough to set up a good grow especially indoors or greenhouse with solar power. Got to strike while the iron is hot.

Outdoor will probably end up being mostly import and way better than brick weed as well just wait until south and central America can supply a legal market. So many possibilities with legal weed may have A grade to the smaller guys but I ain't paying $20 a gram maybe once in a blue moon not when I can pay even $200 for an ounce of B grade.  I really don't mind that vacuum sealed B grade from CA better than schwag but right now I'm cheaper for A grade but I ain't big enough to matter.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Dogs have a bigger carbon footprint than a four wheel drive.
> So do kids. Maybe we ought to have fewer dogs and brats?
> 
> Or maybe existing industrial polluters ought to be regulated in meaningful ways, for once.
> ...


That doesn't scare me, I don't live in Seattle.

The natural catastrophes that would ruin my day- and everyone else's- would be if the supervolcanoes, aka caldera volcanoes of Mammoth Springs or Yellowstone erupted, or any space rock big enough to have a few acres of surface area or more strikes the Earth.

Or an authoritarian in the White House. I'm not sure if Cruz, Chump or Christie would be worst.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

bluntmassa1 said:


> Would be great but you will probably pay more for solar than a greenhouse for a large op but you do use a lot of power in a greenhouse and you need lights anyway so yeah investing in solar ain't bad as well as better lighting technology. After all the prices will drop so much the little man won't be able to make enough to set up a good grow especially indoors or greenhouse with solar power. Got to strike while the iron is hot.
> 
> Outdoor will probably end up being mostly import and way better than brick weed as well just wait until south and central America can supply a legal market. So many possibilities with legal weed may have A grade to the smaller guys but I ain't paying $20 a gram maybe once in a blue moon not when I can pay even $200 for an ounce of B grade.  I really don't mind that vacuum sealed B grade from CA better than schwag but right now I'm cheaper for A grade but I ain't big enough to matter.


A grade will be the only grade people will smoke or vape directly. The rest either goes for hash or food production. I don't see the need for international transport of anything below A grade, in the style of cigars or similar. 

Colorado already sells A grade ounces for well under $200/oz, I can see that heading south of a Franklin pretty quickly.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That doesn't scare me, I don't live in Seattle.
> 
> The natural catastrophes that would ruin my day- and everyone else's- would be if the supervolcanoes, aka caldera volcanoes of Mammoth Springs or Yellowstone erupted, or any space rock big enough to have a few acres of surface area or more strikes the Earth.
> 
> Or an authoritarian in the White House. I'm not sure if Cruz, Chump or Christie would be worst.


Sorry for the rant, y'all. The Yellowstone/Island Park Caldera system _will _be a doozy.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

Got my chillers cleaned yesterday; guess what? Everyone's AC condenser cores need to be inspected and perhaps cleaned every six months. I didn't know this. My chillers were running at maybe 40% of capacity. 

Things are suddenly MUCH cooler now!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Sorry for the rant, y'all. The Yellowstone/Island Park Caldera system _will _be a doozy.


So the saying goes that we should quit worrying about what we can't change, work at what we can, and hope we're smart enough to know the difference.


----------



## lawlrus (Mar 20, 2016)

less politics more donkey dicks!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> less politics more donkey dicks!


Perv. Here;


----------



## lawlrus (Mar 20, 2016)

ooh whatcha got there?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> ooh whatcha got there?


Hillbilly Hobby, there's a couple of them. I'll take a snap of the one that's still swelling, just for the pervs out there;


----------



## lawlrus (Mar 20, 2016)

Sweet, that's the one I saw last time I stopped in...looks like a producer for sure, curious what it looks like when it's in the jar. Any dry pics?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

Blech, that sucked. Another angle;


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> Sweet, that's the one I saw last time I stopped in...looks like a producer for sure, curious what it looks like when it's in the jar. Any dry pics?


Dry? First time anyone's asked for one of those.


----------



## lawlrus (Mar 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dry? First time anyone's asked for one of those.


yeah I'm weird like that

don't leave me hanging man I'm at half mast already


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> yeah I'm weird like that
> 
> don't leave me hanging man I'm at half mast already


Did you see the Jillybean hung up a page or so back?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dry? First time anyone's asked for one of those.


I dont ever take pics of dried stuff because it doesnt stay around long enough to photo it. In the garden its another story because they have me so mesmerized


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> yeah I'm weird like that
> 
> don't leave me hanging man I'm at half mast already


You are one twisted dude, I like that!

Shit. Forgot to turn on Aromavision...


----------



## lawlrus (Mar 20, 2016)

wicked big jahs, I like it


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> wicked big jahs, I like it


The better to cure pounders in, my dear...


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You are one twisted dude, I like that!
> View attachment 3636658
> Shit. Forgot to turn on Aromavision...


Awesome jars. I picked up a couple similar design here and smashed the tops already .


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 20, 2016)

@ttystikk what does it mean when you guys talk about open rated on those cmh shitters?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> @ttystikk what does it mean when you guys talk about open rated on those cmh shitters?


They're in a double bulb so if the pit shatters the contents are contained inside the envelope. Otherwise, nasty shit like mercury ends up all over the crop.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Awesome jars. I picked up a couple similar design here and smashed the tops already .


Saran wrap.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They're in a double bulb so if the pit shatters the contents are contained inside the envelope. Otherwise, nasty shit like mercury ends up all over the crop.


Thanks.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They're in a double bulb so if the pit shatters the contents are contained inside the envelope. Otherwise, nasty shit like mercury ends up all over the crop.


Roughly how many amps do those cmh pull?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Roughly how many amps do those cmh pull?


315W /your voltage. The correct Philips ballast needs 200-277V. Amps will be roughly 1.5 at that voltage.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 20, 2016)

Backyard pollen chuckers! Guilty





Cheers,
Mo


----------



## Jwats1973 (Mar 20, 2016)

Jwats1973I am getting ready to switch from GH to the Jacks 5-12-26/Cal-nit and Epsom Salt. Combo I am running RDWC. I am about 2 weeks into a planed 10 week flower. In one post I see this recipe.

3gm/Gal Jacks
2gm/Gal Cal/nit
1gmGal Epsom Salt
1/4 tsp/Gal Monopotassium Phosphate. 

Is this your recommendation? Lastly, the mixing order, it's Jacks, mix well then Epsom salts then Cal/nit?

Thanks so much for everything!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

Jwats1973 said:


> Jwats1973I am getting ready to switch from GH to the Jacks 5-12-26/Cal-nit and Epsom Salt. Combo I am running RDWC. I am about 2 weeks into a planed 10 week flower. In one post I see this recipe.
> 
> 3gm/Gal Jacks
> 2gm/Gal Cal/nit
> ...


First, I use:
VEG:
3 grams calcium nitrate
2 grams of the 5-12-26 mix
2 grams Epsom salt
BLOOM:
2 grams calcium nitrate
2 grams of the 5-12-26 mix
2 grams Epsom salt
.25 gram MKP

Second; mix your calcium nitrate in a separate pail and put it in your system separately from the rest. Put a half gallon of hot water in a pail, then add the rest of the ingredients list while stirring constantly. Be sure all crystals dissolve, that's the reason for hot water. Then add this to the system. 

Don't fill your res up all the way, because you'll want to maintain a given EC. Top up using your EC meter, so you get the nutrient strength you need. As an example, I run 100x of the above recipes, but I never add in 100 gallons, I generally start with 70. This way, I can still add the right amount of water to achieve the relatively high EC I run in my room. 

LAST, measure and adjust pH.


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Mar 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> People are increasingly living in places only marginally suitable for farming or just outright inhospitable.


Just as bad are city folk that turn their front lawns into food gardens... toxic soil just under their fancy raised beds.




Jwats1973 said:


> I am getting ready to switch from GH to the Jacks


I wouldn't. GH is solid.



a mongo frog said:


> what does it mean when you guys talk about open rated on those cmh shitters?


The bulb is safely able to run (out in the open) without being in a sealed hood. 
The gig with CMH is they are high voltage but low amp. The low amp draw gives a low THD and a clean light.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Just as bad are city folk that turn their front lawns into food gardens... toxic soil just under their fancy raised beds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. A piece of plastic on the ground under fresh soil and that raised bed works just fine. Getting enough light in the concrete canyons is another story! 

2. GH is no better than Jacks, just *A LOT* more expensive. @Jwats1973 unless you're changing out several hundred gallons of nutrient solution every week, you'll do just as well with Jacks 20-20-20 and maybe a little calcium nitrate to supplement veg. Check out @RM3's grows. 

3. While you're right about the 315W CMH system being low watts and low amps, the rest is rest need of clarificationt; 

Only 'open rated' lamps can be run outside of a sealed fixture, no matter what their type. Many wags here (not you, WDP!) say and do otherwise, then wonder what they're going to do with a crop that's been contaminated by mercury from a blown lamp.
The amp draw has nothing to do with the EMI profile of the BALLAST, (not the lamp); that's due to the low frequency it operates at. The only reason it does so is because CMH lamps require low frequencies to operate. 
While we're on the subject, the whole reason the 315W CMH lamp is so efficient is again due to the ballast, in this case the fact that it delivers a square wave output. Such output delivers 30% more area under the power curve (the funny wave on an oscilloscope) and therefore drives the lamp to deliver 30% more light. 

Nothing 'clean' about it; 'dirty' power is a completely different concept; voltage drops, transients and frequency of outages kind of stuff.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 21, 2016)

Today's update is about veg. I'm swapping my 860W CDM lamps on magnetic ballasts for two 315W CMH lights apiece, and swapping one for one for the 600W HPS lamps. The one 315W CMH lamp has already attracted a flock of growing tops, so it's pretty obvious the ladies prefer it. Thanks to @newgrower89 and his dad showing me how, I'm wiring them up safely and installing them myself.

The other recent change in veg is getting the pots off the bottom of the ebb n flood tables. The netpots would not drain or properly aerate against the hard plastic floor of the table. Also, since the table was open there was lots of light and lie humidity, which effectively pruned and contained the roots, eventually stunting growth later on.

We made tray lids from foil covered foam insulation board and covered two tables, this raised the netpots up off the table and kept roots in the dark and kept in humidity between floods. We then used panda film strips and plastic diffusion grating on the last table to accomplish the same goals.

Results are already explosive;


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 21, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> How does one determine equivalent?


That's a damned good question you just asked there, good Sir. I'm glad you asked!

I can tell you that very question had me pondering for YEARS. Along with the one about why some watts feel hotter than others, even though supposedly they're all the same to the HVAC system.

And the answer I came up with was that I just wasn't ever going to be satisfied with any conversion factor, interpolation of graphs, statistics, light meter plots, anecdote, claims, no... nothing.

So what's left? The head to head, of course!

AND, in one corner, 5400W of '860W' CMH, previously revealed to be pulling 1080W-1100W apiece. In the opposite corner is the svelte newcomer COB LED, also packing 5400W of verified draw from the wall.

SAME WATTS. It was the only head to head that made sense. Everything needs to be the same; Same 6 trellis panels, same 6 plants of the same strains on them, same RDWC, same environment, same nutes, same growing style, same lucky underpants worn on alternate Tuesdays. At half mast.

And sooooooooo we'll know in a few weeks what the fuss is all about. I'm not saving one single solitary watt on the light setup itself, so I'll know the score based on how the chillers respond and of course how the plants respond.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 22, 2016)

The 5400 W of LEDs must be blinding!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 22, 2016)

Mohican said:


> The 5400 W of LEDs must be blinding!


We work in there with welding shades.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 22, 2016)

Smart!


----------



## Waiks (Mar 22, 2016)

I know you haven't completed a full cob run yet, but at this stage of flowering, have you noticed an increased uniformity of buds throughout the canopy as opposed to the old bulbs? 

My cob web wall and first vert run is about to go live. I'm hoping for the same sized nugs all the way up!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 22, 2016)

Well to be brutally honest, I'm having some problems. I pushed my EC up thinking that was the way to go and the plants reacted poorly. Now I'm running my EC back down in the hope I can recover things.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> We work in there with welding shades.



WOW!!!


----------



## Waiks (Mar 22, 2016)

Is the water cooler air chiller set on a thermostat? Are you keeping the room temps the exact same as you had them with the old bulbs? 

I ask because perhaps the room temp is the same as before, but because of the lack of IR in the cobs, the leaf temps are cooler, resulting in a slightly slower metabolism. Might be why upping the EC caused problems?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 22, 2016)

Waiks said:


> Is the water cooler air chiller set on a thermostat? Are you keeping the room temps the exact same as you had them with the old bulbs?
> 
> I ask because perhaps the room temp is the same as before, but because of the lack of IR in the cobs, the leaf temps are cooler, resulting in a slightly slower metabolism. Might be why upping the EC caused problems?


Possibly, but I've also recently lost the remote sensor on my environmental controller. Now the room is run on dead reckoning and metered outputs. One of the things I'm wondering is if I gave my plants too much co2?


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 23, 2016)

Where does your Ec usually hover?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Where does your Ec usually hover?


I'd pushed it up according to suggestions, to as high as 2.2. I'm down to 1.8 now. My temps are low 80s, RH in the 70% range.


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 23, 2016)

I too have paid for the sins of over fertilization. My well base is .3 +1.2 =1.5 just got my hard water nutes on order so don't have to use so much ph down. Had a meter fail and was off by .2 high and got tip burn. Hopefully the allownce in the hard water nutes will give me another .2 I can push them.. . At least you caught it.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Mar 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That doesn't scare me, I don't live in Seattle.
> 
> The natural catastrophes that would ruin my day- and everyone else's- would be if the supervolcanoes, aka caldera volcanoes of Mammoth Springs or Yellowstone erupted, or any space rock big enough to have a few acres of surface area or more strikes the Earth.
> 
> Or an authoritarian in the White House. I'm not sure if Cruz, Chump or Christie would be worst.


If chump gets in we are all fucked


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 23, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> If chump gets in we are all fucked[/QUO
> 
> 
> kiwipaulie said:
> ...


----------



## kiwipaulie (Mar 23, 2016)

Your whole government has been corrupt for so long! It no longer matters. 

Your gov is busy worry about Isis, when you should be worrying about your cia and their narco state they have helped create next door. Fuck the fox government and all his predeceases


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 23, 2016)

"We all fucked"...I think not...You all fucked if that happens


----------



## kiwipaulie (Mar 23, 2016)

^hmm not sure where that's coming from. I'm just having a laugh in the storm that's threatening to pull off my roof


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> If chump gets in we are all fucked


Please explain how Donald the Chump's election would mean the end of Kiwi civilisation? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just like to see someone connect those dots.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Your whole government has been corrupt for so long! It no longer matters.
> 
> Your gov is busy worry about Isis, when you should be worrying about your cia and their narco state they have helped create next door. Fuck the fox government and all his predeceases


THIS. This is how America is seen by the rest of the world.

Thanks Fox, Chump, the Shrubbery Brothers, Darth Cheney, Shill O'Reilly, Flush Lamebutt, the Koch smokers, Chris Christie-Kreme and the rest of the clown show destined to ruin our country.

THIS is what happens when money is allowed into politics. The last republican president I have any respect for was the one who warned us;





SMH.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> "We all fucked"...I think not...You all fucked if that happens


If your feet are still connected to terra firma, you're not far enough away to remain unaffected.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> ^hmm not sure where that's coming from. I'm just having a laugh in the storm that's threatening to pull off my roof


Having a storm here, too. Occasional short power outages are shutting my HID lights down, so I get to chase that. Lovely.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Having a storm here, too. Occasional short power outages are shutting my HID lights down, so I get to chase that. Lovely.


Ours went out too


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> THIS. This is how America is seen by the rest of the world.
> 
> Thanks Fox, Chump, the Shrubbery Brothers, Darth Cheney, Shill O'Reilly, Flush Lamebutt, the Koch smokers, Chris Christie-Kreme and the rest of the clown show destined to ruin our country.
> 
> ...


Yeah. He was around when the CIA was coming into being with Allen Dulles. He knew there game.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> THIS. This is how America is seen by the rest of the world.
> 
> Thanks Fox, Chump, the Shrubbery Brothers, Darth Cheney, Shill O'Reilly, Flush Lamebutt, the Koch smokers, Chris Christie-Kreme and the rest of the clown show destined to ruin our country.
> 
> ...


Yeah. He was around when the CIA was coming into being with Allen Dulles. He knew there game. And it obviously scared the living shit out of him!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

Waiks said:


> I know you haven't completed a full cob run yet, but at this stage of flowering, have you noticed an increased uniformity of buds throughout the canopy as opposed to the old bulbs?
> 
> My cob web wall and first vert run is about to go live. I'm hoping for the same sized nugs all the way up!


If you evenly light the vertical canopy and evenly train the plant(s) on it, you'll get nice buds top to bottom. The top ones will always be slightly better, I think because plants are just designed by millions of years of overhead light to push up, no matter what.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 23, 2016)

Democratic Caucuses last night for Bernie had a strong showing. He can win it. Kiwis should rejoice, if he does. Americans, moreso. All good, I agree with everybody here. Be brave, Bern baby Bern.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 23, 2016)

H


Michael Huntherz said:


> Democratic Caucuses last night for Bernie had a strong showing. He can win it. Kiwis should rejoice, if he does. Americans, moreso. All good, I agree with everybody here. Be brave, Bern baby Bern.


Even if he's going to lose you should still vote for him. At least your making a statement....and it doesn't matter if anyone else wins...


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 23, 2016)

I will write him in if I have to. If everyone who supports him did that we could win without a nomination, I believe it. This is a social revolution!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I will write him in if I have to. If everyone who supports him did that we could win without a nomination, I believe it. This is a social revolution!


'Bernard Sanders', because there's no one running for president named Bernie.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 'Bernard Sanders', because there's no one running for president named Bernie.


Solid observation. They will chuck a write-in that is not the proper legal name, every time.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Mar 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Please explain how Donald the Chump's election would mean the end of Kiwi civilisation? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just like to see someone connect those dots.


I'm not saying the end of civilisation, where really not that civilised down. The country has only been around a couple hundreds years  but man we like our smoke!!

Our problem is that our governments have their heads so far up any of your presidents arse it does connect us. 

You guys ride into battle, we get drawn in. Sure it doesn't effect most people here. But I know good people who have lost their lives on bullshit wars started by the US.

Rant over for me. Lets leave politics out of growing haha


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

Today's attempt at an artsy snapshot;


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

During the snowstorm, the power flickered several times. Each time, it knocked out the HID lamps. I had to unplug them, wait thirty minutes, then restart them. After three times, I gave up for the morning! The storm seems past now, so things should be back to normal. 

The transient power issues went all but unnoticed by the COB LED rack. Having brought the EC way down to 1.7, I am seeing the plants perk back up. I'm sure I hurt my yield a bit, but we will see by how much.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> During the snowstorm, the power flickered several times. Each time, it knocked out the HID lamps. I had to unplug them, wait thirty minutes, then restart them. After three times, I gave up for the morning! The storm seems past now, so things should be back to normal.
> 
> The transient power issues went all but unnoticed by the COB LED rack. Having brought the EC way down to 1.7, I am seeing the plants perk back up. I'm sure I hurt my yield a bit, but we will see by how much.


Glad to hear it wasn't a prolonged outage.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 23, 2016)

Love the artsy pic!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Glad to hear it wasn't a prolonged outage.


Just flickering like switching from one line to another, but that's enough.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 23, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> I'm not saying the end of civilisation, where really not that civilised down. The country has only been around a couple hundreds years  but man we like our smoke!!
> 
> Our problem is that our governments have their heads so far up any of your presidents arse it does connect us.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, sorry about that, we're dicks. Humble apologies from the people who oppose those stupid wars.


----------



## GroErr (Mar 23, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Love the artsy pic!


Artsy pic needs a name, call it FOB, Forest of Buds


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Artsy pic needs a name, call it FOB, Forest of Buds


It's my; 

Forest
Of
Insouciant
Buds
Lounging 
Elegantly


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's my;
> 
> Forest
> Of
> ...


Trade mark it quick lol


----------



## Mohican (Mar 23, 2016)

I don't see any weakness!


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Mar 23, 2016)

Is vertical just another way of saying untopped?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Is vertical just another way of saying untopped?


Not at all. It's trained in a different way, but it's still topped and encouraged to spread out - just ninety degrees off from your usual approach, lol


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Mar 23, 2016)

I'll have to look into it.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> I'll have to look into it.


This thread is full of pics of the technique.

Nothing new under the artificial sun, my friend; look up 'espalier'.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This thread is full of pics of the technique.
> 
> Nothing new under the artificial sun, my friend; look up 'espalier'.


It is not often these days I get to add a new word to my vocabulary, thank you. You have shown yourself to be a most perspicacious gentleman, and I bow to you, sir.


----------



## gr865 (Mar 24, 2016)

Late for the party but hope I can hang with you here.
Just getting n2 the vert grow biz. Do to the heat where I grow I will start this late summer when temp are going to begin falling.
GR


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 24, 2016)

gr865 said:


> Late for the party but hope I can hang with you here.
> Just getting n2 the vert grow biz. Do to the heat where I grow I will start this late summer when temp are going to begin falling.
> GR


Welcome, ride along and when the time comes I'll be happy to help out!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 24, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> It is not often these days I get to add a new word to my vocabulary, thank you. You have shown yourself to be a most perspicacious gentleman, and I bow to you, sir.


I have my folks to thank; not one but BOTH of them were university level English teachers. A boy's worst nightmare, I assure you!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I have my folks to thank; not one but BOTH of them were university level English teachers. A boy's worst nightmare, I assure you!


hahaha, I understand you so much better suddenly. 

My love of language may not have flowered in those circumstances. It is hard to say in retrospect.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Well to be brutally honest, I'm having some problems. I pushed my EC up thinking that was the way to go and the plants reacted poorly. Now I'm running my EC back down in the hope I can recover things.


Happens to all of us.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 24, 2016)

Illuminated we are!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Blech, that sucked. Another angle;
> View attachment 3636646 View attachment 3636647


OMG BRO!!! How did I not count those squares before..LMAO


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 24, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Happens to all of us.


They're looking better at 1.7 EC today.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 24, 2016)

Yeah. Those tops look amazing!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You are one twisted dude, I like that!
> View attachment 3636658
> Shit. Forgot to turn on Aromavision...


How did I miss that picture? How about some close ups with good lighting of some Sour Chem Dawg Tops....???


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 25, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> How did I miss that picture? How about some close ups with good lighting of some Sour Chem Dawg Tops....???


I dunno man, they're only 6 feet tall...


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 25, 2016)

Lol. We've been adding a couple pages a day. I must have skipped a little.


----------



## pop22 (Mar 25, 2016)

And because we're Americans, I suppose we should apologize also for the many wars WE didn't cause, or saved your asses from, but hey, we know we are the root of all evil in the world. So, we should just mind our own business! And stop sending all the food, 100's of BILLIONS of dollars in aide, and medical assistance we currently give as surely that is evil too!

So whoever you are and where ever you live, bask in your innocence, for surely you've caused no harm in this world..........

Your outrage is quite unbecoming considering your actual lack of innocence!
QUOTE:"Rant over for me. Lets leave politics out of growing haha"



Michael Huntherz said:


> I agree with you, sorry about that, we're dicks. Humble apologies from the people who oppose those stupid wars.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 25, 2016)

pop22 said:


> And because we're Americans, I suppose we should apologize also for the many wars WE didn't cause, or saved your asses from, but hey, we know we are the root of all evil in the world. So, we should just mind our own business! And stop sending all the food, 100's of BILLIONS of dollars in aide, and medical assistance we currently give as surely that is evil too!
> 
> So whoever you are and where ever you live, bask in your innocence, for surely you've caused no harm in this world..........
> 
> Your outrage is quite unbecoming considering your actual lack of innocence!



Its easy to disguise corporate greed as charity and assistance.... Looks like they fooled you!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 25, 2016)

We give billions in weapons to regimes like Saudi Arabia...yeah how nice of us....


----------



## pop22 (Mar 25, 2016)

Where did I say we didn't? Personally, we should let the whole Middle East have at it on their own. BUT, what happens when one of them gets and USES a nuke? I'm becoming a protectionist as I'd love to see what happened if we did! Let that cesspool of hate and megalomania destroy itself! I'm against foreign aide for military purposes and so are most Americans. All that money we hand out to others should be spent AT HOME for the good of OUR people! Then, what's left we can share.



newgrower89 said:


> We give billions in weapons to regimes like Saudi Arabia...yeah how nice of us....


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 25, 2016)

Come on guys we have a politics section for a reason. Opinions are like butt holes, we all have one. Some stink.

Let's leave it in the politics section.


----------



## pop22 (Mar 25, 2016)

and I sent an apology to TTYSTICK, as I shouldn't have let someone else's politics cause me to react here. I'll post no more on the subject, and please excuse my anger.


----------



## RM3 (Mar 25, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Come on guys we have a politics section for a reason. Opinions are like butt holes, we all have one. Some stink.
> 
> Let's leave it in the politics section.


3 little girls sittin on the porch ,,,,,

1st little girl says , my instincts tell me that I am gonna grow up and be a famous movie star

2nd little girls says , my instincts tell me I will be married and have 2 beautiful children

3rd little girl says , my end stinks too but it doesn't tell me anything


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 25, 2016)

Only way they get one is from Mossad or CIA. Have you actually read the international atomic energy agency's reports on Iran? Or have you just heard our Zionist medias opinion? They aren't a threat. The only nation with rouge nuclrar weapons is Israel. They haven't signed what every other nuclear country has..there weapons don't officially exist but everyone knows they have 2-300...
They accomplished this through spying. We just released one of there spy's that sold info to the Russians that meant for a couple years we had no chance in a nuclear war. They blew up the WTC. I'd stake my life on it. The names of the people that did it have been published and there are movements in OTHER countries to brig international courts into this. Iran isn't a threat. Wake up!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 25, 2016)

RM3 said:


> 3 little girls sittin on the porch ,,,,,
> 
> 1st little girl says , my instincts tell me that I am gonna grow up and be a famous movie star
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree...sorry ty. I'm quick to respond to any message lol


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 25, 2016)

pop22 said:


> And because we're Americans, I suppose we should apologize also for the many wars WE didn't cause, or saved your asses from, but hey, we know we are the root of all evil in the world. So, we should just mind our own business! And stop sending all the food, 100's of BILLIONS of dollars in aide, and medical assistance we currently give as surely that is evil too!
> 
> So whoever you are and where ever you live, bask in your innocence, for surely you've caused no harm in this world..........
> 
> ...


Wow, man. It is OK to take responsibility for our nation's mistakes. I know a lot about geopolitics in the 20th and 21st centuries, for reasons, but I don't want to fight about it here.

My only counterpoint is: Responsibility is not abdication.
I'm done with politics in this thread. All apologies, mostly to tty


----------



## pop22 (Mar 25, 2016)

lets all smoke a bowl and say fuck politics!


----------



## gr865 (Mar 25, 2016)

pop22 said:


> lets all smoke a bowl and say fuck politics!


Been there done did that! But will smoke another with you!

GR


----------



## RM3 (Mar 25, 2016)

pop22 said:


> lets all smoke a bowl and say fuck politics!


don't you mean smoke a bowl and forget how politics fucks us LOL


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 25, 2016)

gr865 said:


> Been there done did that! But will smoke another with you!
> 
> GR


I'll smoke another two with each of you


----------



## pop22 (Mar 25, 2016)

now about LEDs and Cannabis.............


----------



## Mohican (Mar 25, 2016)

Cannabis:






Screen room roof going up:



Cheers,
Mo


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 25, 2016)

The Current State of Cannabis in Colorado;

Yesterday I visited a 200 light commercial indoor growing facility in Denver. Fascinating stuff, they were using mostly Gavita DE in bloom, over coco perlite in smart pots. They had ebb n flood tables but they were only used to catch runoff. They do not recycle the substrate, nor do they treat their runoff. 

Half the facility was small rooms, 10-12 lights. 3x6 trays down both sides, Scrog, train train train. 20-30 lbs per room/12 gavitas.

The other half was 10 Pods, or shipping containers, 5 across and attacked two layers high. The second level had a staircase and wide balcony. Each of these had a dozen Gavita 600-750W lights inside, they were pulling close to the same weight. They were having HVAC problems though, one of these pods kicked off the minisplit cooling it but the high temp cutoff didn't shit of the lights. It went to 130f inside and they're afraid they'll have to trash the run. 

They don't like doing that because the state enforcement agency asks a lot of questions about why plants are getting thrown away, to make sure diversions don't happen. The commercial facilities are growing the way they do often because they're forced to under the current regulatory regime rather than for any other reason. 

They just had a few people doing all the work, not bad for a facility producing several million dollars worth of product a year. Those workers start at $12 an hour, too. No shortage of people who want into the industry!


----------



## Mohican (Mar 25, 2016)

You should check out Scott Reach of Rare Dankness on Facebook. He went to Holland to see the state of the art production tulip greenhouses. He has been building his mega factory for almost two years now. It is a thing to behold.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 25, 2016)

The Current State of Cannabis in Colorado, Part 2;

This morning's visit was to the guys running Grow-tech and Colorado Magic Board. They're installers specializing in minisplit technology to build sealed environment growing spaces.

Most of their work is private, only a small part of the industry is commercial according to them.

They peach the gospel of reusing reclaim water, efficient climate control and reversible heat pumps. My kind of guys!

I discussed my technology with them and they gave me some detailed and insightful feedback.

Edited to correct spelling of company names.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 25, 2016)

Between these, my other wanderings and what I'm doing back here at the ranch, I feel like I'm pretty up to speed on how Colorado grows the weed!


----------



## pop22 (Mar 25, 2016)

Ohh man.......... awesome!




Mohican said:


> Cannabis:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## pop22 (Mar 25, 2016)

I envy your ability to go do this! I'd love to just for the learning experience! I've gone from computer geek to grow tech geek! LOL! Wish this had started long ago..



ttystikk said:


> The Current State of Cannabis in Colorado, Part 2;
> 
> This morning's visit was to the guys running Grow-tech and Colorado Magic Board. They're installers specializing in minisplit technology to build sealed environment growing spaces.
> 
> ...


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 25, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I envy your ability to go do this! I'd love to just for the learning experience! I've gone from computer geek to grow tech geek! LOL! Wish this had started long ago..


I'm no spring chicken, myself. But this isn't just about making money and smoking weed, it's my passion. If I'm still breathing, I'll still be trying to be passionate about something.


----------



## Mohican (Mar 25, 2016)

I have been chucking seeds in the dirt since I was 13 back in 1975. I remember the first time I saw purple stripes on the stems - I was hooked!


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 25, 2016)

wait, are we talking purple stems,, I had them on my last grow, some thought they were bad, bug OMG the buds turned out KILLER,, i like purple stems,, or stripes,, zebras,, ya that


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 25, 2016)

I'm feeling a bit stupid that it took me this long to find a use for all these 315W CMH kits I had laying around, lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 25, 2016)

The more I wire up, the faster it goes. I need half a dozen for my veg room. So what do y'all suppose I could do with the other 6 kits?


----------



## 2ANONYMOUS (Mar 25, 2016)

How we do commercial grows in Okanagan 500 plant 3000 pounds


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The more I wire up, the faster it goes. I need half a dozen for my veg room. So what do y'all suppose I could do with the other 6 kits?


have you finished your Cob Light?


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 25, 2016)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> How we do commercial grows in Okanagan 500 plant 3000 pounds


look at all those grapes,, doing to be some great wine,, LOL


----------



## 2ANONYMOUS (Mar 25, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> look at all those grapes,, doing to be some great wine,, LOL


 peaches buddy peaches lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 25, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> have you finished your Cob Light?


It's been running for a couple of weeks, with only minor issues.


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's been running for a couple of weeks, with only minor issues.


sweet,,, i need to pay attention,, hahaha


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 25, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> sweet,,, i need to pay attention,, hahaha


Well there's a few distractions in here; nug pron, chillers, Lurch the tree, 315W CMH kits in veg...


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Well there's a few distractions in here; nug pron, chillers, Lurch the tree, 315W CMH kits in veg...


sips,, octopots, wicks,,, thats my distraction of late


----------



## Jwats1973 (Mar 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> First, I use:
> VEG:
> 3 grams calcium nitrate
> 2 grams of the 5-12-26 mix
> ...


Thanks a ton man!


----------



## gr865 (Mar 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm no spring chicken, myself. But this isn't just about making money and smoking weed, it's my passion. If I'm still breathing, I'll still be trying to be passionate about something.


Spring chicken, I don't even remember those days. 
I am not sure how many for profit growers come around here, oh sure you see the occasional large grow but most of what I see is the for personal use grower here, as I am, medical and recreational.
I started growing again when I got the shit beat out of me and robbed during a buy. I said fuckit, I am either going to get killed or kill someone so I stop buying and started growing. I did get my shit back from the fuckers and they got some payback but as I said, "get killed or kill someone" and I am not into either.
GR
Oh and growing has become a passion and a damn good hobby.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The Current State of Cannabis in Colorado;
> 
> Yesterday I visited a 200 light commercial indoor growing facility in Denver. Fascinating stuff, they were using mostly Gavita DE in bloom, over coco perlite in smart pots. They had ebb n flood tables but they were only used to catch runoff. They do not recycle the substrate, nor do they treat their runoff.
> 
> ...





ttystikk said:


> Between these, my other wanderings and what I'm doing back here at the ranch, I feel like I'm pretty up to speed on how Colorado grows the weed!


I think your about to change how Colorado grows weed!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm feeling a bit stupid that it took me this long to find a use for all these 315W CMH kits I had laying around, lol


black black white green lol


----------



## pop22 (Mar 26, 2016)

I understand completely! This has become my passion also and it feeds my unending curiosity and desire to learn. And my desire is to get more Cannabis to those in need of it as medicine, at the lowest possible cost. I'm watching developments in a nearby state in hopes of starting a non-profit company to supply seed and grow needs at minimal cost.



ttystikk said:


> I'm no spring chicken, myself. But this isn't just about making money and smoking weed, it's my passion. If I'm still breathing, I'll still be trying to be passionate about something.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 26, 2016)

gr865 said:


> Spring chicken, I don't even remember those days.
> I am not sure how many for profit growers come around here, oh sure you see the occasional large grow but most of what I see is the for personal use grower here, as I am, medical and recreational.
> I started growing again when I got the shit beat out of me and robbed during a buy. I said fuckit, I am either going to get killed or kill someone so I stop buying and started growing. I did get my shit back from the fuckers and they got some payback but as I said, "get killed or kill someone" and I am not into either.
> GR
> Oh and growing has become a passion and a damn good hobby.


I've been robbed once or twice. Never a good feeling. I work with people I trust and with whom there is a mutual bond of friendship and respect.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 26, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> black black white green lol


Not the wiring, the use for the lamps themselves.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 27, 2016)

Toking on some of that above pictured Jillybean this morning. Seems appropriate for the holiday!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 27, 2016)

Ham for dinner, just because. Did it up right, homemade brown sugar and raspberry jam glaze;


----------



## kiwipaulie (Mar 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ham for dinner, just because. Did it up right, homemade brown sugar and raspberry jam glaze;
> View attachment 3643349


Yum!! I slow cooked a 3.75kg pork shoulder the other day on the bbq. I still have so much pork. Haha


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ham for dinner, just because. Did it up right, homemade brown sugar and raspberry jam glaze;
> View attachment 3643349


That looks fukn GOOD!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 28, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Yum!! I slow cooked a 3.75kg pork shoulder the other day on the bbq. I still have so much pork. Haha


I braised 8 lb of pork ribs in an asian honey, star anise and sichuan pepper recipe last night. Whole lot of porkin goin' on!

That ham looks pretty badass.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I braised 8 lb of pork ribs in an asian honey, star anise and sichuan pepper recipe last night. Whole lot of porkin goin' on!
> 
> That ham looks pretty badass.


I'd trade some of mine for some of yours, sounds delish!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The more I wire up, the faster it goes. I need half a dozen for my veg room. So what do y'all suppose I could do with the other 6 kits?


Could find a worthy person or 6 in need and donate them lol


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Toking on some of that above pictured Jillybean this morning. Seems appropriate for the holiday!


I missed my train to NE. Sitting at Starbucks with my extra half gallon of simply orange and what i think is just straight fucking espresso. I just said free 4 dollar coupon from l


ttystikk said:


> I've been robbed once or twice. Never a good feeling. I work with people I trust and with whom there is a mutual bond of friendship and respect.


I've been robbed a couple dozen fifty who knows. But man that Karma must be coming back lol


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'd trade some of mine for some of yours, sounds delish!


It is a Gordon Ramsay recipe, "Sticky Pork Ribs" and the only ribs my woman will eat. Raspberry glaze on a ham is something I haven't done before, it makes sense to the tastebuds of my mind. I usually like to make up recipes while I stumble around the store. I do OK in the kitchen, looks like you do too!

Oh look, there's a video:


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Toking on some of that above pictured Jillybean this morning. Seems appropriate for the holiday![/QUOTE
> 
> I still can't believe you came down and I didn't get to try a bowl of your trees yet lol. How did that happen? Haha. Maybe we got to high and you had some the whole time?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> It is a Gordon Ramsay recipe, "Sticky Pork Ribs" and the only ribs my woman will eat. Raspberry glaze on a ham is something I haven't done before, it makes sense to the tastebuds of my mind. I usually like to make up recipes while I stumble around the store. I do OK in the kitchen, looks like you do too!
> 
> Oh look, there's a video:


Cooking by the seat of my pants has led to some fantastic flavors... and some instructive disasters, lol


----------



## nevergoodenuf (Mar 28, 2016)

@ttystikk check your inbox


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Cooking by the seat of my pants has led to some fantastic flavors... and some instructive disasters, lol


*Instructive Disasters *
- the title of my memoir, as of this moment.


----------



## gr865 (Mar 28, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> I missed my train to NE. Sitting at Starbucks with my extra half gallon of simply orange and what i think is just straight fucking espresso. I just said free 4 dollar coupon from l


NG89,
Number 1, friends don't let friend drink Starsucks! Bad company, bad beans, bad foods, bad service and don't give a fuck about it. They use GMO's in their foods, their beans are subpar, cracked and broken bean, a lot of floor sweeps, their service sucks and they don't care.
Please find a Mom and Pop coffee shop or at least one that is locally owned. You will get lower prices, better products and much better service. 

[/QUOTE]I've been robbed a couple dozen fifty who knows. But man that Karma must be coming back lol[/QUOTE]

When I say robbed, I had move back here from California in 08' and had no real contacts to purchase. In the spring of 09', like I had done a few times, I went into the big city to find some smoke. I saw a, not that young, black man standing on a corner so I pull up, got out and ask if he knew where I could score. He pull out a beautiful bag of buds, not big colas but finely manicured, nice texture and very fragrant. I said how much he says $120 for an 1/8, I said fuck man that's high and he said that what it is. I said ok and he says it is in his car, so I follow him around the corner and he gets a bag out of the car and that shit was dirt weed, plain ol' $10 a bag mexican, had not seen any of that in 40 yrs. I said fuck man I ain't buying that shit and he said, give me the money anyway, I said fuck you and turned to leave and when I did there were two big ol' boys there and they said empty your pockets, then beat the fuck out of me, took my wallet, keys, pocket knife and they took my favorite Cubs BB cap.
Well I went to the Emerg. room, got some stitches and some pain drugs, went home and got my pistol, went back and guess what, those two MF'ers where standing on the same corner. I walked up behind them, told them to raise their shirts and lift the pistols out of their pants, very carefully, and told them to empty there pockets. The one big MFer had my wallet, keys, knife and was wearing my fucking cap. I told them to lay face down, they did grudgingly, I pick up my shit and their guns, did something I can't tell you, but I left them screaming, got in my car and split. I am not a violent man, but all they needed to know is you don't piss off a Vietnam Vet.

So, here I am today. Right after it happened a long time friend from NM called and I told him what happened and he said not to do that shit again and that he would send me smoke. He did for about a year till I could get up and ready for growing. When you say karma, I have never sold any pot in the 52 years I have been smoking and have always shared with friends, hell when I grew outside in the 70' and 80's I gave away pounds and pounds to friends. So it was nice to have it come back around.
Well I have been growing in my cabinet for about the last 7 yrs now, and all is good. 

Still wear some scars for that little event, and it is just a reminder to not get into that situation again.
Oh and I still wear that same cap all the time!

GR


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> *Instructive Disasters *
> - the title of my memoir, as of this moment.


It's the story of my life, man


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2016)

gr865 said:


> NG89,
> Number 1, friends don't let friend drink Starsucks! Bad company, bad beans, bad foods, bad service and don't give a fuck about it. They use GMO's in their foods, their beans are subpar, cracked and broken bean, a lot of floor sweeps, their service sucks and they don't care.
> Please find a Mom and Pop coffee shop or at least one that is locally owned. You will get lower prices, better products and much better service.
> 
> ...


I never have to worry about vets treating me badly, because they always know I've got their back.

I'd wear that motherfucker every day, too! Proud!

Wonder if those guys learned their lesson?


----------



## gr865 (Mar 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I never have to worry about vets treating me badly, because they always know I've got their back.
> 
> I'd wear that motherfucker every day, too! Proud!
> 
> Wonder if those guys learned their lesson?


Not sure they learned their lesson, but I bet the both still walk with a limp.

And thanks man!


----------



## T.C. Bosby (Mar 28, 2016)

In a Vertical Scrog, at what point do you switch from veg. to flower? On a horizontal scrog I know you'd wait until the screen is full. But with a vertical grow and stretch during flower, do you wait until about half of the trellis is filled vertically?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2016)

T.C. Bosby said:


> In a Vertical Scrog, at what point do you switch from veg. to flower? On a horizontal scrog I know you'd wait until the screen is full. But with a vertical grow and stretch during flower, do you wait until about half of the trellis is filled vertically?


I want my trellis pretty full, at least 3/4.


----------



## T.C. Bosby (Mar 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I want my trellis pretty full, at least 3/4.


Thanks! Your grow has definitely peaked my interest. I've been trying to figure out how to best use my grow tent. Although somewhat limited horizontally, I have a good 7+ feet of height to work with. I'll go back and reread your writeup. I'll try not to pester you with too many questions.

Anyway, thanks again and cheers to creativity!


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 29, 2016)

gr865 said:


> NG89,
> Number 1, friends don't let friend drink Starsucks! Bad company, bad beans, bad foods, bad service and don't give a fuck about it. They use GMO's in their foods, their beans are subpar, cracked and broken bean, a lot of floor sweeps, their service sucks and they don't care.
> Please find a Mom and Pop coffee shop or at least one that is locally owned. You will get lower prices, better products and much better service.


I've been robbed a couple dozen fifty who knows. But man that Karma must be coming back lol[/QUOTE]

When I say robbed, I had move back here from California in 08' and had no real contacts to purchase. In the spring of 09', like I had done a few times, I went into the big city to find some smoke. I saw a, not that young, black man standing on a corner so I pull up, got out and ask if he knew where I could score. He pull out a beautiful bag of buds, not big colas but finely manicured, nice texture and very fragrant. I said how much he says $120 for an 1/8, I said fuck man that's high and he said that what it is. I said ok and he says it is in his car, so I follow him around the corner and he gets a bag out of the car and that shit was dirt weed, plain ol' $10 a bag mexican, had not seen any of that in 40 yrs. I said fuck man I ain't buying that shit and he said, give me the money anyway, I said fuck you and turned to leave and when I did there were two big ol' boys there and they said empty your pockets, then beat the fuck out of me, took my wallet, keys, pocket knife and they took my favorite Cubs BB cap.
Well I went to the Emerg. room, got some stitches and some pain drugs, went home and got my pistol, went back and guess what, those two MF'ers where standing on the same corner. I walked up behind them, told them to raise their shirts and lift the pistols out of their pants, very carefully, and told them to empty there pockets. The one big MFer had my wallet, keys, knife and was wearing my fucking cap. I told them to lay face down, they did grudgingly, I pick up my shit and their guns, did something I can't tell you, but I left them screaming, got in my car and split. I am not a violent man, but all they needed to know is you don't piss off a Vietnam Vet.

So, here I am today. Right after it happened a long time friend from NM called and I told him what happened and he said not to do that shit again and that he would send me smoke. He did for about a year till I could get up and ready for growing. When you say karma, I have never sold any pot in the 52 years I have been smoking and have always shared with friends, hell when I grew outside in the 70' and 80's I gave away pounds and pounds to friends. So it was nice to have it come back around.
Well I have been growing in my cabinet for about the last 7 yrs now, and all is good.

Still wear some scars for that little event, and it is just a reminder to not get into that situation again.
Oh and I still wear that same cap all the time!

GR[/QUOTE]

Well I just let it go and now I'm sitting in KC about to fly all over the place in a few days. Denver's new air line is fucking cheap. I just quit jimmy johns in December lol.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 29, 2016)

But ya good job I'm glad you taught them a lesson lol. Karma will get every one back so I don't worry.


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 29, 2016)

I had a gun pulled on me in NE over a fucking oz....


----------



## pop22 (Mar 29, 2016)

I'm reading thru your whole thread. On page 12 a statement was made about nutrients. Its one that's been driving me nuts for a long time. You see, I'm a crusader against garden myths. And the statement, every time i see it said, sets off my bullshit alarms! Its this:

"Actually.. Veg nutes (higher in N) will grow more compact, bushy plants.. It is bloom nutes (High in P) that will make your plants stretch more."

Unless someone is putting hormones and PGRs in the nutes, what does the mineral content have to do with it??? I see no logical reason for the nutrients in your solution or soil to have any direct effect stretch unless levels are toxic or inadequate. Bloom and stretch are controlled by genetics. I've looked a bit but found no solid information to support this claim of nutrients regulating plant growth in a healthy environment. Maybe you can enlighten us on this subject?


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## indianajones (Mar 29, 2016)

how are the babies responding to the COBs? care to share a couple pics?


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## RM3 (Mar 29, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'm reading thru your whole thread. On page 12 a statement was made about nutrients. Its one that's been driving me nuts for a long time. You see, I'm a crusader against garden myths. And the statement, every time i see it said, sets off my bullshit alarms! Its this:
> 
> "Actually.. Veg nutes (higher in N) will grow more compact, bushy plants.. It is bloom nutes (High in P) that will make your plants stretch more."
> 
> Unless someone is putting hormones and PGRs in the nutes, what does the mineral content have to do with it??? I see no logical reason for the nutrients in your solution or soil to have any direct effect stretch unless levels are toxic or inadequate. Bloom and stretch are controlled by genetics. I've looked a bit but found no solid information to support this claim of nutrients regulating plant growth in a healthy environment. Maybe you can enlighten us on this subject?


From the ProMix website 

http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/training-center/relationship-between-fertilizer-plant-stretching/

*Nitrogen Forms:* It has been long thought that the form of nitrogen used to fertilize a plant influenced plant stretching and quality. Ammoniacal nitrogen has been thought to cause plant stretching, increase leaf size and produce soft growth; while nitrate nitrogen produces compact, firm growth with smaller leaves. Experientially this seems to be true. For example 20-10-20, which has 40% ammonium and 60% nitrate, can promote stretching, larger leaf size and softer overall growth compared to 13-2-13 which is 6% ammonium and 94% nitrate. However there is another variable; if both fertilizers are applied at the same nitrogen application rate; 20-10-20 provides more than three times as much phosphorus as 13-2-13.

Traditionally fertilizers that have a high ratio of ammoniacal nitrogen also have higher levels of phosphorus due to their formulation with ammonium phosphate. Fertilizers with higher ratios of nitrate usually have little to no phosphorus content since the calcium nitrate they are formulated with can form precipitates with phosphate. So is the nitrogen source the factor in plant stretching?

Dr. Paul V. Nelson, Professor Emeritus of NCSU and his team, conducted research with various bedding plants in which he applied fertilizer with different ratios of ammoniacal to nitrate nitrogen, while keeping all other nutrients the same. The results demonstrated that there was little difference in plant growth. Based on these results, the old idea that ammonium causes plant stretch and nitrate produces short, more tone plants was not true. Dr. Nelson concluded that the form of nitrogen has little influence on plant height and growth.

*Phosphorus:* Dr. Nelson then looked at phosphorus. In his research, he formulated fertilizers with different levels of phosphorus, but kept the nitrogen ratios and all other nutrients the same. The results showed a significant difference in the height of bedding plants in which those fertilized with a high phosphorus fertilizer were taller than those given a low phosphorus fertilizer. The conclusion was obvious; it is not the form of nitrogen in a fertilizer that influences stretching and plant growth, but it is the amount of phosphorus.

This conclusion makes sense as symptoms of phosphorus deficiency include plant stunting and darkening of the leaves as seen in the following picture. These symptoms are good quality attributes for most plants; however, prolonged phosphorus deficiency can progress into foliar necrosis and deterioration of crop quality. A water soluble fertilizer should provide a minimum phosphorus level (P2O5) of 10-15% of the nitrogen concentration (i.e. fertilizers with analyses such as 20-2-20 or 20-3-20). Some plug crops may prefer higher levels of phosphorus and may benefit from an analysis such as 20-5-20. Fertilizers such as 20-10-20 or 20-20-20 provide more phosphorus than crops need, but other than plants being taller; these fertilizers do not have a negative impact on crops.







_“Notice the impact of phosphorus on tomato growth. The plant on the left is grown
with normal levels of phosphorus, while the one on the right is shorter and smaller
due to phosphorus deficiency.
Source: apps.cdfa.ca.gov/frep/docs/Tomato.html, Jim Richards, UC Davis.”_


*Conclusion:* Overall, we can see manipulation of fertilizer can influence plant height and crop growth. The old adage that ammonium stretches plants and nitrate leads to compact growth is not as significant as once thought; in fact, these nutrients do not seem to manipulate crop growth much at all. Reducing fertilizer application rates can help, but often compromise crop quality and end user satisfaction. The one variable that can reduce plant stretching without compromising crop quality is reduction of phosphorus application rates.


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## pop22 (Mar 29, 2016)

Interesting, thank you!



RM3 said:


> From the ProMix website
> 
> http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/training-center/relationship-between-fertilizer-plant-stretching/
> 
> ...


----------



## gr865 (Mar 29, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> I had a gun pulled on me in NE over a fucking oz....


Well that's not a very good feeling, I know, the memories are still here. As they say, if you were there you never forget war!
I hope you just gave it to them, you can always grow more alive than you can dead. 

GR


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## FilthyFletch (Mar 29, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Democratic Caucuses last night for Bernie had a strong showing. He can win it. Kiwis should rejoice, if he does. Americans, moreso. All good, I agree with everybody here. Be brave, Bern baby Bern.


No sane person would vote for Bernie or any socialist. Socialism has been the proven collapser of all economies it has been attempted to run. It is the anti American foundation of freedom and democracy. We all should fight socialism to the end.


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## pop22 (Mar 29, 2016)

Make Donald Drumpf again!

http://www.donaldjdrumpf.com/

Yes,it must be we need a former Walmart lawyer who helped craft their wonderful employee policies, sold us out to the Oil industry, etc etc for president!
Or even better, Donald Drumpf, because we ALL know what he'll do to..errr...for our country. You just go on believing that. Maybe you'd be happier in Syria.......



FilthyFletch said:


> No sane person would vote for Bernie or any socialist. Socialism has been the proven collapser of all economies it has been attempted to run. It is the anti American foundation of freedom and democracy. We all should fight socialism to the end.


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## ttystikk (Mar 29, 2016)

FilthyFletch said:


> No sane person would vote for Bernie or any socialist. Socialism has been the proven collapser of all economies it has been attempted to run. It is the anti American foundation of freedom and democracy. We all should fight socialism to the end.


Dude, Bernie would have qualified as a good republican for much of this country's history. We aren't nationalizing industry, just making sure everyone pays their fair share. You aren't against that, are you?


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## ttystikk (Mar 29, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Make Donald Drumpf again!
> 
> http://www.donaldjdrumpf.com/
> 
> ...


Did you hear his campaign manager quit this morning, and wrote a scathing letter about Chump the man and can't-idate.


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## GroErr (Mar 29, 2016)

FilthyFletch said:


> No sane person would vote for Bernie or any socialist. Socialism has been the proven collapser of all economies it has been attempted to run. It is the anti American foundation of freedom and democracy. We all should fight socialism to the end.


That's funny, we're doing just fine up here in Canada and our Liberal party is about as socialist as your Democrats. We don't consider it socialism, we call it taking care of our own and sharing the wealth. The wild west, dog-eat-dog, fuck the other guy attitudes changed here when we hit the 20th century.


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## gr865 (Mar 29, 2016)

Interesting, Oh interesting so true!
MONEY, hummmm, makes the world go round.
And we are the 1%'s pawns to do with as they like. Yet there biggest group of pawns are "OUR" elected officials, I am tired of being a pawn!
There are over 2/3's of the seats in the House and Senate to be voted on this next election, so before you go vote, do your homework, find out which candidates are wanting to seriously make a difference in Washington for the betterment of the American people or which ones are just looking to line their pockets and will keep it business as usual in DC.
I don't care who you vote for be it Democrat, Republican, Independent or other, just don't be lazy and say Oh well, I recognize or have heard his/her name on the ballot and do know know who these others are, so I will just vote to keep him/her in office. WRONG! That is not the way folks. Ask question, ask them what they plan to do when they get to Washington, ask for specific's, Don't settle on just them giving general answers, ask what are you going to do about the budget, immigration, gun's, the Constitution, etc etc. That is what is lacking in this election by everyone running for president, there are no details about what their plans are. Build a fence, fuck how do you plan on doing that, go after the 2nd amendment, are you going after our guns, Social Security, how are you going to fix it, ask if they will try and get the trillions of dollars that was taken by the government to fund other bullshit, repair the broken war on drugs, change cannabis from a schedule 1 to a 4 is a good start.
Let's show the Washington establishment that we are tired of their bullshit and really make a change for the good in our country.
USA Proud!

Ok that is all the political shit I want, let's talk vertical!

GR


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## WestDenverPioneer (Mar 29, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Bloom and stretch are controlled by genetics.


The color of light will affect stretching.


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## ttystikk (Mar 29, 2016)

I had an emergency over the easter weekend; one of my chillers died! Limping along on one unit is a chore but it keeps the system going until my guy can come and fix it. "Fault Tolerance" in my systems design means the emergency is isolated and doesn't bring my whole op to its knees. 

And indeed my spare capacitor saved the day! He made it over this afternoon and the spare is running the unit until another part can arrive.

SPARE PARTS. THEY WILL SAVE YOUR ASS. Close behind this piece of wisdom comes the suggestion of standardizing your parts so you can carry fewer spares... leading to modular components.

That's why my two chillers are the same make, model and type.

They are due for replacement, however, and the new unit is officially slated to arrive at the lab next week! YAY! Rated at Five Tons of chilling and 7.5 Tons of heating, the owner asserts they don't ship unless they run ten percent over their rated capacity at ninety degrees ambient conditions.

I will be chilling and heating in style for many years to come.


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 29, 2016)

FilthyFletch said:


> No sane person would vote for Bernie or any socialist. Socialism has been the proven collapser of all economies it has been attempted to run. It is the anti American foundation of freedom and democracy. We all should fight socialism to the end.


No educated person would say this. I mean educated currently, not 50 years ago. You're living in the past, bud.
All forms of government fail. In the same way that the human risk of death is 100%; Every government will fail, every person will die. The most successful states currently on the planet are socialist democracies. Different than National or Marxist Socialism, it is called *Social Democracy*. Countries like Norway, Sweden, Netherlands and Iceland seem to be doing pretty well with it.

Learn the things!


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## ttystikk (Mar 29, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> No educated person would say this. I mean today educated, not 50 years ago. You're living in the past, bud.


This is a matter of definitions. Our country needs a lot more collective assistance of the poor and needy and a lot less assistance of the already shockingly well off at the expense of the rest of us.


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This is a matter of definitions. Our country needs a lot more collective assistance of the poor and needy and a lot less assistance of the already shockingly well off at the expense of the rest of us.


I agree, large corporations get the lion's share of socialism in our country, and many others. Individual natural persons have many fewer rights, especially financially. Completely upside-down.


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## ttystikk (Mar 29, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I agree, large corporations get the lion's share of socialism in our country, and many others. Individual natural persons have many fewer rights, especially financially. Completely upside-down.


Less billion dollar bombers, more billion dollar homeless shelters.


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## pop22 (Mar 30, 2016)

I believe it was L.A. that wants to use a portion of the cannabis taxes to fund their billion dollar homes for the homeless project. 



ttystikk said:


> Less billion dollar bombers, more billion dollar homeless shelters.


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## pop22 (Mar 30, 2016)

"I test everything; common sense, my luck, people's patience..."

We must be related.........


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I believe it was L.A. that wants to use a portion of the cannabis taxes to fund their billion dollar homes for the homeless project.


Fuck yeah, and build them with hempcrete!


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

lawlrus said:


> Good man, I'm of the opinion that people who don't like cilantro can't be trusted.


...or cannabis!


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## pop22 (Mar 30, 2016)

I just bought CXA 2530's for $7.09 each. They'd make a great veg light with the right driver and heat sink. might be able to build for $100 maybe less! no lenses needed for veg. and this would still stomp any T5 rig.



a mongo frog said:


> 400.00 is a little high to crush the T-5 market. I mean T-5's are probably the most bought veg light world wide. And their fucking bulbs always go out its a fucking mess.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I just bought CXA 2530's for $7.09 each. They'd make a great veg light with the right driver and heat sink. might be able to build for $100 maybe less! no lenses needed for veg. and this would still stomp any T5 rig.


True. I'm only scratching the surface of COB LED, it's revolutionary. Cost is the next frontier and it's already coming down.


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

New chiller is due next week! I'm expecting a record breaking hot summer and so I took steps to be prepared.


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## a mongo frog (Mar 30, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I just bought CXA 2530's for $7.09 each. They'd make a great veg light with the right driver and heat sink. might be able to build for $100 maybe less! no lenses needed for veg. and this would still stomp any T5 rig.


All depends on the foot print really. If for 100 bucks you could build a cob veg lamp and cover a 2x4 foot area, then yes you'd be rich in no time.


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> All depends on the foot print really. If for 100 bucks you could build a cob veg lamp and cover a 2x4 foot area, then yes you'd be rich in no time.


Oh yeah, get ready cuz they're coming. I just put 315W CMH lights in my veg and I'm wondering if it's the last HID upgrade I'll make.


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## a mongo frog (Mar 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Oh yeah, get ready cuz they're coming. I just put 315W CMH lights in my veg and I'm wondering if it's the last HID upgrade I'll make.


Its the best option out right now, those 315 kits are. Not the kits but the full hood and shit are flying off the shelves where i live.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Mar 30, 2016)

I'm on the fence about those 315's.... not entirely impressed.

Tittysticks what's up with the LED's? Everything still running good? Notice any differences in growth? I know we'll need to wait a full cycle to know for sure but was wondering how the first few weeks are looking so far.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 30, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> I'm on the fence about those 315's.... not entirely impressed.
> 
> Tittysticks what's up with the LED's? Everything still running good? Notice any differences in growth? I know we'll need to wait a full cycle to know for sure but was wondering how the first few weeks are looking so far.


3x3 foot print is what I'm being told. So 2 of them is some pretty serious garden space.


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## pop22 (Mar 30, 2016)

I'm building a light that I'll upgrade the COBs on in the future. I'm building three, 40" x 4.84" heatsinks to run passive, each will have 5 CXA 2530 running at about 25 watts each. I'll have $400-$425 in them total. I'm using Meanwell HLG-185H-C1050B so I could drive them harder than 700ma if I need to. You could light a 2x4 area with one panel in veg I believe. Going to test that theory myself!





a mongo frog said:


> All depends on the foot print really. If for 100 bucks you could build a cob veg lamp and cover a 2x4 foot area, then yes you'd be rich in no time.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> I'm on the fence about those 315's.... not entirely impressed.
> 
> Tittysticks what's up with the LED's? Everything still running good? Notice any differences in growth? I know we'll need to wait a full cycle to know for sure but was wondering how the first few weeks are looking so far.


I'm not. 315W CMH lights kick ass with the LFSW ballast. I just replaced over 3400W of mixed HID lighting with less than 2kW of 315W CMH, and I think PAR increased.


----------



## a mongo frog (Mar 30, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'm building a light that I'll upgrade the COBs on in the future. I'm building three, 40" x 4.84" heatsinks to run passive, each will have 5 CXA 2530 running at about 25 watts each. I'll have $400-$425 in them total. I'm using Meanwell HLG-185H-C1050B so I could drive them harder than 700ma if I need to. You could light a 2x4 area with one panel in veg I believe. Going to test that theory myself!


Ok, get me a prototype. How much you looking for for an first time investment? Will 5 grand get us started? How blue can you go? Lets get this money and beat the shit out of T-5's for vegging.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Tittysticks what's up with the LED's? Everything still running good? Notice any differences in growth? I know we'll need to wait a full cycle to know for sure but was wondering how the first few weeks are looking so far.


They've just about completed four weeks. Stretch is over, they ended up pretty squat compared to what I'm used to, but budset is coming on hard with lots of hairs everywhere. 

My fuck up with the EC will cost some yield, but it still looks like it will be a decent run.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> All depends on the foot print really. If for 100 bucks you could build a cob veg lamp and cover a 2x4 foot area, then yes you'd be rich in no time.


I just did the math for my modules; they pull a kill a watt confirmed 224W from the wall, or 54W for each of 4 CXB3590 3500K CD bin 72V plus 8V for the Meanwell hlg-185-c700b driver itself. If my math is incorrect, please chime in and help a growther out!

Ok, so moving on to performance, the above combo is advertised at 56% efficient at producing PAR from 216W, cuz B model over drives by 8% if the dimming circuit is left capped:

216W x .56 = 120.96PARW/6 sq ft = 20PARW/sq ft.

I was told this equates to 824PPfD but I don't know the math on that either, would love to have someone help me walk thru the formulas to confirm all this.

So each module then delivers 824PPfD to a sixpack shaped 2' x 3'. Four of these nicely cover a 4' x 6' trellis panel. Six trellis panels make up the test rack. Not sure where it fits in, but the rack is meant to be 24" from the canopy and the modules run 80 degree lenses.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

I repeat all this occasionally to provide a reference for comparison to what I've had before, what I'll do later, and what others are running.

Tonight's occasion is the COB test done on the vertical plant that the owner concluded was inadequate to replace their trusty HPS lamps. 

The original design, a pic of which is still on the thread, was a box with COBS on all four sides. 800W in this shape would seem to be a good match for a thouie hung vertically. It wouldn't need lenses because it's designed to throw light in all directions. I still think this design has possibilities, and @legallyflying I suggest you try it again in this configuration. It would be a simple and low risk swap for a thousand watt HPS. 

When the design was split into several component pieces, two things happened; one, it lost its ability to be compared directly to a thousand watt lamp anywhere, and two it had the original advantage of no lenses or reflectors turned into a disadvantage; there are fears of light lost because it's missing the plant entirely? Not sure if that's the case in your setup. 

If the pieces were assembled into a flat array, they could once again bring their advantage of distributed light intensity fruitfully to bear. Maybe if all the cobs were aimed at a wall of buds it would also do better? Your panels are flat, just like mine... dunno, spitballing.


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## Vnsmkr (Mar 31, 2016)

Here, I'll add some more dribble.
My Pax 2 started having blinking blue light faults. I bought 2 at the same time and the power button stopped working on the one I gave my friend after 3 months afterwhich he disected it and performed surgery himself few times before contacting Ploom where they told him they couldnt fix it even if HE paid for it, so he smashed it into bits with a sledge hammer . 
Now after that I started cleaning mine religiously and it has performed perfectly, until this fucking blue light started blinking and it won't function. Send it back they say, we'll replace it. I've only had it for ~9 months


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 31, 2016)

Where am I going with this? Why the fuck can companies not make quality durable shit which fucking lasts? We pay those premium prices for just that and we get SHIT


----------



## Vnsmkr (Mar 31, 2016)

On the other hand my 7th Floor SSV works like a fucking champ, kudos to those boys. They are from Colorado Springs


----------



## newgrower89 (Mar 31, 2016)

gr865 said:


> Well that's not a very good feeling, I know, the memories are still here. As they say, if you were there you never forget war!
> I hope you just gave it to them, you can always grow more alive than you can dead.
> 
> GR


I ran out of the car before he had a chance to remember my wallet which since I was being an idiot showing up there in the first place was empty and wouldn't have mattered. But I walked by there tripping my balls off laughing twice in the last month lol I call them donations to greedy fucks that are broke and always will be! Tystikk your plants are awesome I just suit my petitioning shit lol I'm flying the whole crew out to the grow room lol someone else can get the last 30000 signatures for this shit its great if your broke I guess lol I'm at the waffle house...oh shit our boss got arrested last night...maybe there's no work and I get an extra night of free super 8 fuck I don't want to stay here I forgot they won't let us stay in a hotel we might actually get girls to show up at lol ya ok its s scam lol actually its easy but I can't stay out of the bars lol I'm manic perhaps.

Ty we haven't seen the plants in at least a couple pages what's up bro? We are pervs we need our bud porn lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

newgrower89 said:


> I ran out of the car before he had a chance to remember my wallet which since I was being an idiot showing up there in the first place was empty and wouldn't have mattered. But I walked by there tripping my balls off laughing twice in the last month lol I call them donations to greedy fucks that are broke and always will be! Tystikk your plants are awesome I just suit my petitioning shit lol I'm flying the whole crew out to the grow room lol someone else can get the last 30000 signatures for this shit its great if your broke I guess lol I'm at the waffle house...oh shit our boss got arrested last night...maybe there's no work and I get an extra night of free super 8 fuck I don't want to stay here I forgot they won't let us stay in a hotel we might actually get girls to show up at lol ya ok its s scam lol actually its easy but I can't stay out of the bars lol I'm manic perhaps.
> 
> Ty we haven't seen the plants in at least a couple pages what's up bro? We are pervs we need our bud porn lol


Wtf? Dude! Put down the crack pipe, back away slowly...


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Wtf? Dude! Put down the crack pipe, back away slowly...


Pages 69-72 have a lot of bud porn is what he means, lol. Also put down the crack, you've had enough. Smoke some of this-here RIU rock, instead.


----------



## gr865 (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Wtf? Dude! Put down the crack pipe, back away slowly...



No Shit! LOL


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

Had a false alarm. My trimmer looked at my grapefruit plant that's been hanging for a day or two and thought it was full of PM. Nah! Just frosty asf!


----------



## pop22 (Mar 31, 2016)

My thoughts are flat vertical screens with COB lighting systems without lenses, sandwich in between. Spacing would need to be figured out to maintain airflow , but I believe that this would be the way to maximize space and efficiency.



ttystikk said:


> I repeat all this occasionally to provide a reference for comparison to what I've had before, what I'll do later, and what others are running.
> 
> Tonight's occasion is the COB test done on the vertical plant that the owner concluded was inadequate to replace their trusty HPS lamps.
> 
> ...


----------



## pop22 (Mar 31, 2016)

I had mine a week and gave it away. Worst piece of shit vape I've owned! My $20 Hebe Titan 2 was a better vape!
I've tried/owned most of the so called good ones. I keep going back to my Davinci Ascent and original Davinci. big hits from both, and the Ascent I can use all day for 2-3 days without a recharge! Its awkward to fill but other than that, its the bomb! I have a Mighty also. Nice cool vape, but just doesn't produce the thick vapor of the Ascent.



Vnsmkr said:


> Here, I'll add some more dribble.
> My Pax 2 started having blinking blue light faults. I bought 2 at the same time and the power button stopped working on the one I gave my friend after 3 months afterwhich he disected it and performed surgery himself few times before contacting Ploom where they told him they couldnt fix it even if HE paid for it, so he smashed it into bits with a sledge hammer .
> Now after that I started cleaning mine religiously and it has performed perfectly, until this fucking blue light started blinking and it won't function. Send it back they say, we'll replace it. I've only had it for ~9 months


----------



## pop22 (Mar 31, 2016)

Because they know we'll try this shit.....



Vnsmkr said:


> Where am I going with this? Why the fuck can companies not make quality durable shit which fucking lasts? We pay those premium prices for just that and we get SHIT


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

Okay, okay some more bud porn for the whiney 'gineys, lol


----------



## RM3 (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Okay, okay some more bud porn for the whiney 'gineys, lol
> View attachment 3646309 View attachment 3646310


those are not COBs ???


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Because they know we'll try this shit.....


Because they pulled that shit, I'm going to make mine better. I know y'all are talking about vape pens, but quality matters. Great design is worthy of extra cost, as the functionality pays dividends every time it's used.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

RM3 said:


> those are not COBs ???


Nope. COB LED is still a month out.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

Today's installment of Children of the COB. Yes, they're fried, EC was too high so I ran it down to 1.8, and then they eat it down from there.


----------



## gr865 (Mar 31, 2016)

I don't know a lot about lights, but how do you plan on running these COB vertical.
I don't see how vertical LED's will work, you have to keep the plants so far from the lamp. I need a damn drawing! LOL

GR


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

gr865 said:


> I don't know a lot about lights, but how do you plan on running these COB vertical.
> I don't see how vertical LED's will work, you have to keep the plants so far from the lamp. I need a damn drawing! LOL
> 
> GR


Why do I have to keep the lights so far from the canopy?


----------



## gr865 (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Why do I have to keep the lights so far from the canopy?


Again I am not a light person, but from what I do know about the LED I have is that it says to keep them 16 to 24 inches away. 
Enlighten me!
I think if you can use LED vertical with a screen you could do well. IMHO

GR


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

gr865 said:


> Again I am not a light person, but from what I do know about the LED I have is that it says to keep them 16 to 24 inches away.
> Enlighten me!
> I think if you can use LED vertical with a screen you could do well. IMHO
> 
> GR


Yeah, I should try that.


----------



## gr865 (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yeah, I should try that.





ttystikk said:


> Why do I have to keep the lights so far from the canopy?


I think it is due to leaf bleaching, heard that somewhere.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Today's installment of Children of the COB. Yes, they're fried, EC was too high so I ran it down to 1.8, and then they eat it down from there.


Sometimes the shit life give us is good shit, but not always. Fight the good fight, you will be killing it this year with those lights, I have no doubt.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Sometimes the shit life give us is good shit, but not always. Fight the good fight, you will be killing it this year with those lights, I have no doubt.


You have no idea, lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

gr865 said:


> I think it is due to leaf bleaching, heard that somewhere.


I haven't had that problem with any leaf further than 4" from a COB, lens or not. 

Mine got toasted due to high EC, at least that's my guess. It doesn't look quite like classic nute burn to me. The plants perked up when EC came down, but that doesn't prove anything.


----------



## newgrower89 (Apr 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Wtf? Dude! Put down the crack pipe, back away slowly...


 For the record I've only done crack about 10 times the first time was in the Capitol Park with some homeless person that I bought some good times burgers for and I didn't really like it much I prefer Coke okay but anyways we're walking back through the Amtrak tunnel in Kansas City in the coolest f****** hotel I've probably ever seen there's like a f****** Garden there's a mall upstairs and you can walk around with red stripes and all kinds of beer and booze but we're not getting an open container and we're walking back to the Amtrak station we gotta check these right now and so I will see you in a little bit I'll get off the station tonight at like f****** 6 p.m. and I'm bringing my best friend I pick him up from his 19th rehab and I am a crazy son-of-a-b**** and I don't care if anybody on this site believe the f****** thing I say is I know you know I'm not lying so I'll see you soon bro. I'm writing my dad's house for 3 Grand a month the whole f****** thing it's fine we're just going to party there and then we're going to f***** picture of the beer talking I forgot their greenhouse up on the way in and I need you to help m I'm using talk text so there's probably some f***-ups my bad I'm kind of drunk I'll see you soon bro with a big smile


----------



## newgrower89 (Apr 1, 2016)

I forgot I bought a couple f****** Black and Milds cause he didn't have any real blunt and no papers I hate blunts but oh well I've got probably just about enough to stop this last one up f*** yeah then sleepy brown the train we're stopping in Raton New Mexico and taking the bus back from Denver you can fly for like $75 tomorrow night on Frontier Airlines but oh well


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 1, 2016)

Oxygen thievery is still very prevalent isn't it.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 1, 2016)

Wtf is that about couple posts up lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 1, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Wtf is that about couple posts up lol


Hell you tell me . Lost me


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

Woke up at 4am my time, house is 77F. My upstairs chiller is making so much heat that I can't shed it all, even with it being just 40F outside!


----------



## Thorhax (Apr 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Woke up at 4am my time, house is 77F. My upstairs chiller is making so much heat that I can't shed it all, even with it being just 40F outside!


ouch 37 degree difference.... i feel your pain=/


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

Thorhax said:


> ouch 37 degree difference.... i feel your pain=/


What's painful is that I've dropped $9k on a 5 Ton chiller with all the bells n whistles and it's not here yet! Next week, I'm promised.

Then, it too will shed plenty of heat, this time into a hot water system that I can use to keep my home comfortable.

I'm expecting a record hot summer this year, so I will be prepared. Are y'all ready for the hottest summer EVER?


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 2, 2016)

How do you plan to transfer heat from the chiller into your water heating? Are you planning on running that 5 ton chiller indoors?


----------



## Thorhax (Apr 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> What's painful is that I've dropped $9k on a 5 Ton chiller with all the bells n whistles and it's not here yet! Next week, I'm promised.
> 
> Then, it too will shed plenty of heat, this time into a hot water system that I can use to keep my home comfortable.
> 
> I'm expecting a record hot summer this year, so I will be prepared. Are y'all ready for the hottest summer EVER?


i recently started running my stuff at night to try and keep everything in balance. works great for me cause temps in the daytime can get up to 95F=/ 

I'm excited to see what you do with COBs=]]]


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> How do you plan to transfer heat from the chiller into you water heating? Are you planning on running that 5 ton chiller indoors?


It has hot gas recovery, which means it sheds heat first into a hot water circuit. It then flows around my house just like hot water baseboard heat would. If this water system gets hot enough that it won't take any additional heat, the chiller will reject the excess into the air. Yes it's mounted outside, just like a heat pump. 

In fact, you can think of it as a heat pump, only instead of reversing flow to go from cooling to hearing, it just has two circuits that handle cold and hot separately, full time. The two water circuits allow me to run each room individually on their own thermostats.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

Thorhax said:


> i recently started running my stuff at night to try and keep everything in balance. works great for me cause temps in the daytime can get up to 95F=/
> 
> I'm excited to see what you do with COBs=]]]


Balance, indeed!

I run a flip schedule, this allows me to have half the heating and cooling capacity I'd otherwise require. Separate heating and cooling circuits allow me to heat and cool any space, any time, independent of other spaces or the time of day.

The COB LED system is playing its part by converting watts to PAR more efficiently than its predecessors. So far, they have NOT produced a substantially different load on my cooling system, very likely because they're pulling exactly the same watts.


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It has hot gas recovery, which means it sheds heat first into a hot water circuit. It then flows around my house just like hot water baseboard heat would. If this water system gets hot enough that it won't take any additional heat, the chiller will reject the excess into the air. Yes it's mounted outside, just like a heat pump.
> 
> In fact, you can think of it as a heat pump, only instead of reversing flow to go from cooling to hearing, it just has two circuits that handle cold and hot separately, full time. The two water circuits allow me to run each room individually on their own thermostats.


Sounds like a pretty fancy chiller. Didnt know you could get a chiller with heat recovery. 
Will you still need a furnace or will the chiller recover enough heat to replace it?


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 2, 2016)

Come summer time though Im guessing you can valve out the recovery side and divert all the heat outdoors?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Sounds like a pretty fancy chiller. Didnt know you could get a chiller with heat recovery.
> Will you still need a furnace or will the chiller recover enough heat to replace it?


I spent the extra $100 or so for a 1kW electric heat strip in the cold water system. This will guarantee that even if there's no outside load on the chiller it will still drive enough heat to the hot side to guarantee home heating. 

It makes 5 Tons of cooling- plus 10%- at 90F ambient. While doing so, it makes 7.5 Tons of heat, plenty of heating for any three normally sized suburban homes in Colorado. 

I threw my old furnace away last November, even before the chiller got here. My window banger based 2 Ton unit has been plenty to keep my house warm (even TOO warm!) for the last 4 winters. 

The difference will be that the hot water system will be on a thermostat, where up 'til now I've had to manipulate fan settings and such to maintain comfortable temps in the house.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Come summer time though Im guessing you can valve out the recovery side and divert all the heat outdoors?


It's two separate circuits, so no valves. The hot water side will still come in handy for heating rooms overnight and dehuey, as well as shedding excess heat from other systems, like water cooled co2 burners. All excess heat gets shed outside, regardless of the season. Pretty darn nifty, and since it's using heat I've already paid for and paid again to move, I don't have to pay for it yet again!


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 2, 2016)

Have you already plumbed the radiant heat?


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's two separate circuits, so no valves. The hot water side will still come in handy for heating rooms overnight and dehuey, as well as shedding excess heat from other systems, like water cooled co2 burners. All excess heat gets shed outside, regardless of the season. Pretty darn nifty, and since it's using heat I've already paid for and paid again to move, I don't have to pay for it yet again!


Yes but wouldnt you want to shut down the recovery side completly in the summer? Meaning why have hot water circulating through your house and adding to the heat load your trying to remove...or am I not understanding?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Have you already plumbed the radiant heat?


We've installed the hot side manifold, bought the baseboard heaters and the chiller comes with tanks and pumps for both hot and cold side circuits.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Yes but wouldnt you want to shut down the recovery side completly in the summer? Meaning why have hot water circulating through your house and adding to the heat load your trying to remove...or am I not understanding?


The heat load won't be that much because the heat stays in the water system. 

Everything that needs heat will be on a thermostat, which will control a valve on that circuit. This includes the water to air heat exchange core I'll use for heating the house; this home was built with a gas furnace and forced air heating. I'll use the existing ductwork to circulate air upstairs in the living space, the heat exchange core will sit in the system where the furnace used to.


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 2, 2016)

Lots of moving parts...hopefully it works out for you.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

There will be a COLD water to air heat exchange core in the forced air ducting, too- cuz I'm not spending ten grand on all this and coming out of it without whole house AC!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Lots of moving parts...hopefully it works out for you.


No, Sir; fewer moving parts, just better integration with HVAC systems as opposed to the common scenario of treating building HVAC and growroom needs as if they're completely separate. 

I no longer have a furnace AND an AC plant; they'll now be integrated, with the ability to gain serious efficiencies and thus reduce costs along the way. 

In fact, I'll have just one compressor handling everything that requires heating, cooling or dehuey in the whole house, period.


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No, Sir; fewer moving parts, just better integration with HVAC systems as opposed to the common scenario of treating building HVAC and growroom needs as if they're completely separate.
> 
> I no longer have a furnace AND an AC plant; they'll now be integrated, with the ability to gain serious efficiencies and thus reduce costs along the way.
> 
> In fact, I'll have just one compressor handling everything that requires heating, cooling or dehuey in the whole house, period.


I meant its not the simplest way of doing things...

I cant say whether water cooling/heating is more efficient than conventional methods. I've only encountered water cooling systems when the heat loads are huge...over 100 tons


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 2, 2016)

Or on large electric motors operating in hot environments...


----------



## Grandpapy (Apr 2, 2016)

I like the idea of using heat off of the lamps to defrost the driveway.
You ever work under a car in a garage with a heated floor? Oh it's heaven.
I'm envious.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> I meant its not the simplest way of doing things...
> 
> I cant say whether water cooling/heating is more efficient than conventional methods. I've only encountered water cooling systems when the heat loads are huge...over 100 tons


Yet It's completely acceptable for people to use 1/4hp toys for their RDWC? AND a minisplit for AC? AND a furnace for their house? AND electric heaters and separate dehumidification equipment? AND whole house AC?

The way it's currently being done is a fucking mess from start to finish, brother.

No one disputes that water is 30% more efficient than air at moving heat loads, even if the head unit itself is the same.

Frankly, a water cooling system is much simpler and easier to install than a air ducting system, and gets easier the larger you go.

And in fact that's really what I'm doing here; showing how well things work at the small end of commercial economies of scale.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 2, 2016)

Hey ttystikk how often do you change your nute solution and how do you do it? From memory you do dwc?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey ttystikk how often do you change your nute solution and how do you do it? From memory you do dwc?


RDWC and every other week.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> RDWC and every other week.


Cheers. When the plants are attached to the screen. How do you actually do the change, do you just have a spare bucket to swap while you change. 

Considering heading this way, just a bit concerned I wont be able to control the water temp.


----------



## Mohican (Apr 2, 2016)

System sounds awesome!

I want to use liquid cooling for LEDs.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers. When the plants are attached to the screen. How do you actually do the change, do you just have a spare bucket to swap while you change.
> 
> Considering heading this way, just a bit concerned I wont be able to control the water temp.


I just drain my whole system. I have bulkhead fittings and lines between tubs.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2016)

Mohican said:


> System sounds awesome!
> 
> I want to use liquid cooling for LEDs.


CPU coolers all day, bro!


----------



## Mohican (Apr 2, 2016)

Exactly!


----------



## Waiks (Apr 3, 2016)

Are your cob racks mounted to the floor or ceiling? Or both?
Actively or passive cooled?

I have all my shit together to make the rack for my tent, but I'm not sure exactly how to mount it in there and have it movable so I can access the vert scrog.

My initial idea was to install drawer slides on the top front cross bar of the tent. The two outer cob bar columns will be able to slide from optimum light spread position, to the outer edges of the tent for screen access. I'm not quite sure what to do with the middle column to make it movable. Shoot, a third slide?

Or curtain rod thing with sturdy braces for all three...idk. Just thinking out loud


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yet It's completely acceptable for people to use 1/4hp toys for their RDWC? AND a minisplit for AC? AND a furnace for their house? AND electric heaters and separate dehumidification equipment? AND whole house AC?
> 
> The way it's currently being done is a fucking mess from start to finish, brother.
> 
> ...


Individual components are easier for most...no need to engineer a system that will do it all. And then if one component fails, the others are not affected. If your chiller fails, your entire system is down. If that happens in the winter...hope you have a fireplace.

I'm not arguing water is a much better coolant than air. I'm saying a furnace is generally a much more reliable machine than a chiller. Its pretty common for a furnace to last 15-20 years. Can a chiller last that many years?..maybe.

Back in the day, hot water heating (radiant) was the norm in multi story buildings, but its not any more. Why? I would say mainly due to the maintenance a hot water system requires over forced air. Particularly the expansion joints.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Individual components are easier for most...no need to engineer a system that will do it all. And then if one component fails, the others are not affected. If your chiller fails, your entire system is down. If that happens in the winter...hope you have a fireplace.
> 
> I'm not arguing water is a much better coolant than air. I'm saying a furnace is generally a much more reliable machine than a chiller. Its pretty common for a furnace to last 15-20 years. Can a chiller last that many years?..maybe.
> 
> Back in the day, hot water heating (radiant) was the norm in multi story buildings, but its not any more. Why? I would say mainly due to the maintenance a hot water system requires over forced air. Particularly the expansion joints.


Forced air is cheaper for the builder, so of course it gets the nod. Yes, chillers can and do last 20 years. Where do you get your info or are you just making shit up? Yes furnaces fail, MOSTLY in the winter. Why? Cuz that's when they're being used, lol Water based HVAC is alive and well in new construction, especially in larger facilities.

Then you tell me there's no need to engineer a system that would do it all- what's your justification for this? I'm basing mine on lower cost, less maintenance and much greater efficiency.

The system I'm building also has individually replaceable components, they just work on a water system.

You're trying to be a devil's advocate, to what end? You don't seem to have the HVAC chops to recognize your own bad arguments, either. You in the field?

Why, exactly, are you here badmouthing the technology?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

Waiks said:


> Are your cob racks mounted to the floor or ceiling? Or both?
> Actively or passive cooled?
> 
> I have all my shit together to make the rack for my tent, but I'm not sure exactly how to mount it in there and have it movable so I can access the vert scrog.
> ...


Rack is mounted to both floor and ceiling. 

Passive cooling. 

I look forward to seeing what you come up with!


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Forced air is cheaper for the builder, so of course it gets the nod. Yes, chillers can and do last 20 years. Where do you get your info or are you just making shit up? Yes furnaces fail, MOSTLY in the winter. Why? Cuz that's when they're being used, lol Water based HVAC is alive and well in new construction, especially in larger facilities.
> 
> Then you tell me there's no need to engineer a system that would do it all- what's your justification for this? I'm basing mine on lower cost, less maintenance and much greater efficiency.
> 
> ...


LOL...I get my info from the 20 years experience of actually maintaining and installing this type of equipment. I've actually worked in heavy industry, have you? nuclear power stations, NG fired power stations, steel mills, pulp/paper mills, water and waste water treatment and hard rock mines.

I've never seen water based HVAC used in any of these places...water cooling yes, but never for environmental control.

Just for example. At the nuclear power station I worked at. They used a chiller system to cool the control room equipment. It consisted of two 250hp rotary compressors, not sure of the rated cooling capacity but they were replaced by one 50 ton AC.


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 3, 2016)

I'm not bad mouthing the technology. I'm saying your choice to incorporate your home heating and cooling with your grow room might not be the best idea, even if does save some energy cost. Time will tell.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> I'm not bad mouthing the technology. I'm saying your choice to incorporate your home heating and cooling with your grow room might not be the best idea, even if does save some energy cost. Time will tell.


I respect your experience. What I do not respect is a closed mind. I do hope that makes my attitude more understandable for you.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> LOL...I get my info from the 20 years experience of actually maintaining and installing this type of equipment. I've actually worked in heavy industry, have you? nuclear power stations, NG fired power stations, steel mills, pulp/paper mills, water and waste water treatment and hard rock mines.
> 
> I've never seen water based HVAC used in any of these places...water cooling yes, but never for environmental control.
> 
> Just for example. At the nuclear power station I worked at. They used a chiller system to cool the control room equipment. It consisted of two 250hp rotary compressors, not sure of the rated cooling capacity but they were replaced by one 50 ton AC.


I have no interest in blithely emulating anything a nuclear power station does, for any reason.


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 3, 2016)

lol...blithely...you and your vocabulary. Have to look that one up.

Anyways...Im not close minded to new ideas as long as they're better than the old ones.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> lol...blithely...you and your vocabulary. Have to look that one up.
> 
> Anyways...Im not close minded to new ideas as long as they're better than the old ones.


EXCELLENT, and I don't mind a 'knowledgeable' devil's advocate. It's the ignorant I have no time for. 

AC, dehuey, chilling RDWC systems and the like are all currently handled by separate systems, with serious efficiency penalties. Integrating them can create opportunities for substantially better performance.


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 3, 2016)

A more efficient way is great, as long as it doesn't compromise reliability.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> A more efficient way is great, as long as it doesn't compromise reliability.


Agreed, and the first best way to improve reliability is to reduce the number of components, especially those doing redundant jobs.


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Agreed, and the first best way to improve reliability is to reduce the number of components, especially those doing redundant jobs.


Not always. Depends on how critical the components job is. For instance, going back to the nuclear power station, there's never one piece of equipment for a given function. Always at least two and in some cases three. Like the pumps that supply cooling water to the reactor. One can do the job but two are used to share the load (to increase reliability) and the third is on standby for a failure or if one is out of service for maintenance. This is an extreme example but the point is efficiency can take a backseat to reliability in some cases.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Not always. Depends on how critical the components job is. For instance, going back to the nuclear power station, there's never one piece of equipment for a given function. Always at least two and in some cases three. Like the pumps that supply cooling water to the reactor. One can do the job but two are used to share the load (to increase reliability) and the third is on standby for a failure or if one is out of service for maintenance. This is an extreme example but the point is efficiency can take a backseat to reliability in some cases.


Right. My house is a bit small for redundant 5 Ton chillers, but any facility designed with these systems will be built around at least two or the units for the reasons you just described. 

I'll be keeping a 2 Ton unit here for backup and emergency use, although I'm not sure if it will be in the garage or actually online and ready.


----------



## Resinhound (Apr 3, 2016)

Wtf did I just read...


----------



## skunkd0c (Apr 3, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> Wtf did I just read...


I hope you didn't actually read it and you are typing/speaking figuratively.


----------



## Resinhound (Apr 3, 2016)

skunkd0c said:


> I hope you didn't actually read it and you are typing/speaking figuratively.


I scanned over it and lost braincells...I could hear em popping as the ******* rolled by.


----------



## skunkd0c (Apr 3, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> I scanned over it and lost braincells...I could hear em popping as the ******* rolled by.


I see a wall

i think its some kind of spammer, could be selling berries or personal equity plans maybe even Jesus
They most likely want something though, too many takers in the world and not enough givers


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

Well my girlfriend and I met him at his place a few weeks ago and he seemed all right to me at the time... 

Hope it's just a reeeeeeaaaally good trip, lol


----------



## sunni (Apr 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Well my girlfriend and I met him at his place a few weeks ago and he seemed all right to me at the time...
> 
> Hope it's just a reeeeeeaaaally good trip, lol


he posted on his profile wall he was gunna do some acid
ever since than hes been going nuts on the forums. writing up crazy things, posting his phone number.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

skunkd0c said:


> I see a wall
> 
> i think its some kind of spammer, could be selling berries or personal equity plans maybe even Jesus
> They most likely want something though, too many takers in the world and not enough givers


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

sunni said:


> he posted on his profile wall he was gunna do some acid
> ever since than hes been going nuts on the forums. writing up crazy things, posting his phone number.


A logical explanation. Thank you very much for that, and timely too!


----------



## m4s73r (Apr 3, 2016)

mmmmm acid....


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> Wtf did I just read...


I couldn't stay with it... and then there was another one. It spilled together like opening all the paint cans at Sherwin Williams and tossing them around the parking lot.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> mmmmm acid....


It's a trip!


----------



## PKHydro (Apr 3, 2016)

Who are we talking about here? I go away for 2 seconds and miss the crazy shit


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> Who are we talking about here? I go away for 2 seconds and miss the crazy shit


Guy wrote a crazy wall of text, I guess he's been running around the forum posting stuff;


sunni said:


> he posted on his profile wall he was gunna do some acid
> ever since than hes been going nuts on the forums. writing up crazy things, posting his phone number.


You didn't miss much; it was long and rambling and no one could make batheads or chemtrails of it.


----------



## sunni (Apr 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Guy wrote a crazy wall of text, I guess he's been running around the forum posting stuff;
> 
> 
> You didn't miss much; it was long and rambling and no one could make batheads or chemtrails of it.


oh i read it thoroughly lol


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

Sooooooooo... where was we, Willis?

Water? Cold water! Yeah, that's it!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2016)

sunni said:


> oh i read it thoroughly lol


Got any gems to share?


----------



## Waiks (Apr 4, 2016)

Whats the temp of the water that runs out of the chiller?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 4, 2016)

Waiks said:


> Whats the temp of the water that runs out of the chiller?


Which one? When? My system flows enough that water temps can fluctuate with the load.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Apr 4, 2016)

hey dude..where are the photos of the cobbing plants?


----------



## Waiks (Apr 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Which one? When? My system flows enough that water temps can fluctuate with the load.


Right out of the chiller temp, as well as air handler water temp


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 4, 2016)

Waiks said:


> Right out of the chiller temp, as well as air handler water temp


The chiller is able to pull a few degrees off the water passing through it. 

Air handler raises the water temp by a few degrees, but since I don't have thermometers all over my setup I couldn't tell you how many.


----------



## Grandpapy (Apr 5, 2016)

Waiks said:


> Right out of the chiller temp, as well as air handler water temp


I use a 1hp in the summer to remove the heat. I can set the chiller to 65 and using approx. 50 gal of coolant in the system it will maintain that temp for about 15 mins before the Chiller recycles back on (3 degree set point) at which point depending on the outside temp, it will run for 3-4 min to remove the heat. I'd love to set up a 200 gal tank and cool the rest of the house, just don't have the room.


----------



## Corso312 (Apr 5, 2016)

What's your beef with ttystick ? Why spam his thread with this nonsense?


----------



## pop22 (Apr 5, 2016)

What the fuck are you smoking???



newgrower89 said:


> Go take a picture of it and make it open source then no one can make money off of it it's called Linux maybe you just want people that died all over the world you know there's kids dying right now because you're being greedy with your girl but do you understand me tell me that I'm lying tell me the one thing that I've ever told you was wrong go ahead because it's not I'm obviously smarter than you and everyone else on this f****** planet you couldn't even look at the God damn wires on your f****** grow light and hook it up by yourself dude I thought you were a pot grower the f****** diagrams on the side I didn't know how to wire the light dude I looked at the f****** side of the box and you paid me $40 to look at a picture to look at a picture bro how much would have an electrician charge you to do that a thousand or some s*** I don't know probably a lot a lot more than forty bucks you didn't even give me any of f****** for weed I would have rather had a bowl of weed in 40 bucks honestly money sucking evil and that's all you want in life you could a little boy socialist Hitler would be proud of you little socialist national socialism hello it was called national socialism I wonder what that meant like socialism / corporatism which is what you guys want 8 istick change the world bro there's kids dying in Africa and it's your fault because you have the secret writing your f****** house and I'm not going to do it for you you have to do it it's your idea you have to make it open source you have to give it away I'm pretty sure you'll keep on living just fine if you give that s*** away right now are you going to go broke I have a f****** doubt it you'll probably be like a world hero so why don't you stop being an idiot and give that s*** away so kids can stop f****** dying all over the world and starving to death because you have the secret dude what the f*** are you waiting for give it away


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## pop22 (Apr 5, 2016)

I think what you need is to get your head out of your ass and lay off that shit! And if your such a civil rights activist, go do something useful, not rant total bullshit on a forum. Lots of big talk, no damned action. If your so righteous, go join NORML and DO SOMETHING!





newgrower89 said:


> Does anyone have any acid by the way I only have ten thousand hits here and I want more I don't think this is going to be enough I'm trying to go to the Moon for like a month anybody want to come


----------



## Corso312 (Apr 5, 2016)

Somebody delete this jerkoff already. @rollitup


----------



## sixstring2112 (Apr 5, 2016)

Tty's new friend sure has alot to say lmao.

Cocain's a helluva drug


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> Tty's new friend sure has alot to say lmao.
> 
> Cocain's a helluva drug


@sunni said something about him saying he did a bunch of acid and he's been running around the forums ranting ever since. 

It looks like classic mania to me, either schizoid or bipolar. Poor boy needs real help; psych meds and therapy, not street drugs and ridicule. I hope he gets it before he goes off the deep end again.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

And to answer his question; first, I'm not even sure I do have any new ideas. Plenty of patent search time a'comin'!

Second, even if I did 'give it away', what happens next? Someone ELSE profits from the idea, lol! Someone who didn't put in the hard work of development.

Noooooooo thanks, the whole point is for me to profit from my hard work. What's wrong- really- with being rewarded for one's own hard work? Being altruistic can wait, at least until my own retirement is secure!


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 5, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I had mine a week and gave it away. Worst piece of shit vape I've owned! My $20 Hebe Titan 2 was a better vape!
> I've tried/owned most of the so called good ones. I keep going back to my Davinci Ascent and original Davinci. big hits from both, and the Ascent I can use all day for 2-3 days without a recharge! Its awkward to fill but other than that, its the bomb! I have a Mighty also. Nice cool vape, but just doesn't produce the thick vapor of the Ascent.


I use a $70 flowermate 5.0s. It runs several days between charges.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 5, 2016)

Grandpapy said:


> I like the idea of using heat off of the lamps to defrost the driveway.
> You ever work under a car in a garage with a heated floor? Oh it's heaven.
> I'm envious.


No. I have spent plenty of time on cold concrete and gravel. Probably the reason I have arthritis.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

There are already companies popping up, building home cogeneration plants that produce electricity from domestic natural gas, then sell it back to the utility at a profit. These cogeneration plants also spin an HVAC compressor on the same shaft, allowing for the use of cogenerated heat for home and water heating. 

I believe these glorified car engine powered devices are a stepping stone to fuel cell cogeneration for in home use; all the same advantages, even more efficient, less maintenance.


----------



## Mohican (Apr 5, 2016)

Micro-turbine electric generators can run a whole neighborhood and are in use by some smart communities.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There are already companies popping up, building home cogeneration plants that produce electricity from domestic natural gas, then sell it back to the utility at a profit. These cogeneration plants also spin an HVAC compressor on the same shaft, allowing for the use of cogenerated heat for home and water heating.
> 
> I believe these glorified car engine powered devices are a stepping stone to fuel cell cogeneration for in home use; all the same advantages, even more efficient, less maintenance.





Mohican said:


> Micro-turbine electric generators can run a whole neighborhood and are in use by some smart communities.


 I have a free natural gas well. I need to put it to use for something.


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## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I have a free natural gas well. I need to put it to use for something.


Oh, I can help you with some ideas. Convert that 'worthless' (due to low prices) natural gas into high value electricity and sell it- or convert THAT into high quality cannabis!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Micro-turbine electric generators can run a whole neighborhood and are in use by some smart communities.


The efficiency of said micro turbine installations would determine how 'smart' the installation is. 

Fuel cell cogeneration has the potential to productively utilize ALL the BTus from natural gas, far more than the low twenties to mid thirties of most power production in operation today.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Apr 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The efficiency of said micro turbine installations would determine how 'smart' the installation is.
> 
> Fuel cell cogeneration has the potential to productively utilize ALL the BTus from natural gas, far more than the low twenties to mid thirties of most power production in operation today.


Yes, and more importantly, I missed all the drama!? I probably would have had at least one witty retort.  Give me a holler in the morning if you can @ttystikk


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## whitebb2727 (Apr 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Oh, I can help you with some ideas. Convert that 'worthless' (due to low prices) natural gas into high value electricity and sell it- or convert THAT into high quality cannabis!


Indoor hemp facility. Pop a bunch of seeds and only keep the best of the best for cannabinoid extraction.

The well doesn't have much pressure. It is the reason the house is not on it anymore. A family member has a well on their property. The pressure dropped on it. We mounted a compressor off a Ford on a large tank to store it and bud oressure. Some of that red kneck engineering. Lol.

Its enough pressure that I could put a good size generator.

I've been looking at low rpm continuous duty lp generators.

I got a new phone. I'll get the link when I get a chance.


----------



## pop22 (Apr 5, 2016)

It makes even less sense when I'm stoned............

And I thought it would help....lol!



whitebb2727 said:


> Indoor hemp facility. Pop a bunch of seeds and only keep the best of the best for cannabinoid extraction.
> 
> The well doesn't have much pressure. It is the reason the house is not on it anymore. A family member has a well on their property. The pressure dropped on it. We mounted a compressor off a Ford on a large tank to store it and bud oressure. Some of that red kneck engineering. Lol.
> 
> ...


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 5, 2016)

pop22 said:


> It makes even less sense when I'm stoned............
> 
> And I thought it would help....lol!


What makes less sense? I'm lost. I'm stoned to. Lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Indoor hemp facility. Pop a bunch of seeds and only keep the best of the best for cannabinoid extraction.
> 
> The well doesn't have much pressure. It is the reason the house is not on it anymore. A family member has a well on their property. The pressure dropped on it. We mounted a compressor off a Ford on a large tank to store it and bud oressure. Some of that red kneck engineering. Lol.
> 
> ...


Call Schlumberger and see about getting it fracked. That's how you can get more life from old wellheads. 

Now, it occurs to me that since you're the owner of said well, you've already done some investigating along those lines and there's a reason you aren't going forward. I'm curious about what those reasons might be, if I'm not intruding?


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Call Schlumberger and see about getting it fracked. That's how you can get more life from old wellheads.
> 
> Now, it occurs to me that since you're the owner of said well, you've already done some investigating along those lines and there's a reason you aren't going forward. I'm curious about what those reasons might be, if I'm not intruding?


There is a underground water source here. Very good water. I will not have it fracked..

Its is a new place. You know how it is. Three years here and I'm still getting the property the way I want it. To many pokers in the fire.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> There is a underground water source here. Very good water. I will not have it fracked..
> 
> Its is a new place. You know how it is. Three years here and I'm still getting the property the wag I want it. To many pokers in the fire.


They can case the well with cement at the level of the water and work beneath, it's in fact the most common scenario at any site. They are far better at it now than in the past, so you'd be fortunate to be the beneficiary of the industry's learning curve. None of the above should be construed to sound like I'm second guessing your decision. 

I'd want to have the water tested, because the well has already been drilled and such damage in terms of natural gas contamination may already have occurred. None of this is cheap, of course, but at least testing the water should be affordable, nevermind important for peace of mind!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They can case the well with cement at the level of the water and work beneath, it's in fact the most common scenario at any site. They are far better at it now than in the past, so you'd be fortunate to be the beneficiary of the industry's learning curve. None of the above should be construed to sound like I'm second guessing your decision.
> 
> I'd want to have the water tested, because the well has already been drilled and such damage in terms of natural gas contamination may already have occurred. None of this is cheap, of course, but at least testing the water should be affordable, nevermind important for peace of mind!


Any areas within the well which have water intrusive/bearing zones are cased and/or cemented then pressure tested....


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Any areas within the well which have water intrusive zones are cased and/or cemented then pressure tested....


Oh good, someone who knows drilling; I just worked at Halliburton for a few weeks, so my knowhow is very thin here.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 5, 2016)

I know a little  about drilling though been involved in enhancing oil and gas production for 20+ yrs. My father told me perhaps I should change my business direction since oil and gas may go away soon. I laughed first and then said pop are you fucking serious? Maybe in the next 100 years things stave off, but this design currently employs oil and gas and/or its byproducts for practically everything we use in daily life, and thats no 100, 1000, 10000, 100000 products....its a number which far exceeds any of these. I dont agree with the way oil and gas companies rape the land, other countries land, etc but its fed myself and my family so its been a rock (until I get my happy farm going ).


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They can case the well with cement at the level of the water and work beneath, it's in fact the most common scenario at any site. They are far better at it now than in the past, so you'd be fortunate to be the beneficiary of the industry's learning curve. None of the above should be construed to sound like I'm second guessing your decision.
> 
> I'd want to have the water tested, because the well has already been drilled and such damage in terms of natural gas contamination may already have occurred. None of this is cheap, of course, but at least testing the water should be affordable, nevermind important for peace of mind!


It's OK. I respect your opinion. I've asked you for advice in private.

I may just do that. It wouldn't hurt anything to have it looked at.

I don't think the water is bad. I've used water that is from the water table and the had well. I'm sure it is the same source. The sump pump is less than 100 feet from the well. I've used the water for an aquarium. That doesn't mean the water is safe but it is a good sign.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> It's OK. I respect your opinion. I've asked you for advice in private.
> 
> I may just do that. It wouldn't hurt anything to have it looked at.
> 
> I don't think the water is bad. I've used water that is from the water table and the had well. I'm sure it is the same source. The sump pump is less than 100 feet from the well. I've used the water for an aquarium. That doesn't mean the water is safe but it is a good sign.


I think you're one lucky son of a gun; acreage, good groundwater AND natural gas production onsite? Sheesh! Where do I find some?!


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I think you're one lucky son of a gun; acreage, good groundwater AND natural gas production onsite? Sheesh! Where do I find some?!


In the mountains.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I know a little  about drilling though been involved in enhancing oil and gas production for 20+ yrs. My father told me perhaps I should change my business direction since oil and gas may go away soon. I laughed first and then said pop are you fucking serious? Maybe in the next 100 years things stave off, but this design currently employs oil and gas and/or its byproducts for practically everything we use in daily life, and thats no 100, 1000, 10000, 100000 products....its a number which far exceeds any of these. I dont agree with the way oil and gas companies rape the land, other countries land, etc but its fed myself and my family so its been a rock (until I get my happy farm going ).


@whitebb2727 I'd be asking @Vnsmkr's advice about anything drilling related from here on out, lol I know I'm going to!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> In the mountains.


Even better! Which ones?


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @whitebb2727 I'd be asking @Vnsmkr's advice about anything drilling related from here on out, lol I know I'm going to!


Will do. Thank you.



ttystikk said:


> Even better! Which ones?


Appalachia.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I know a little  about drilling though been involved in enhancing oil and gas production for 20+ yrs. My father told me perhaps I should change my business direction since oil and gas may go away soon. I laughed first and then said pop are you fucking serious? Maybe in the next 100 years things stave off, but this design currently employs oil and gas and/or its byproducts for practically everything we use in daily life, and thats no 100, 1000, 10000, 100000 products....its a number which far exceeds any of these. I dont agree with the way oil and gas companies rape the land, other countries land, etc but its fed myself and my family so its been a rock (until I get my happy farm going ).


We may switch from coal and tar sands towards sweet crude and natural gas, but there's just no fucking way modern society is going to quit using and needing fossil fuels and hydrocarbon feedstock for industrial production. It's a fundamental must have building block of modern technology just like gold, iron or aluminum.

Tires, cellphone cases, even the epsom salt in your nutes- nevermind most of the rest of those hydroponic nutrient salts in those bottles- came from a chemical industry that runs on fossil fuel for both energy and chemical inputs.

Just riffing here, it's important for me to understand how the modern world works in order to effect change, especially if one would endeavor to change it for the 'better'.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> We may switch from coal and tar sands towards sweet crude and natural gas, but there's just no fucking way modern society is going to quit using and needing fossil fuels and hydrocarbon feedstock for industrial production. It's a fundamental must have building block of modern technology just like gold, iron or aluminum.
> 
> Tires, cellphone cases, even the epsom salt in your nutes- nevermind most of the rest of those hydroponic nutrient salts in those bottles- came from a chemical industry that runs on fossil fuel for both energy and chemical inputs.
> 
> Just riffing here, it's important for me to understand how the modern world works in order to effect change, especially if one would endeavor to change it for the 'better'.


In short, fuck yes AND the #1 reason it won't change any time soon. It is making some people far too much money.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Will do. Thank you.
> 
> 
> Appalachia.


A man's got to know his limitations. In my case, my network of people who are really good at different shit is among my most valuable possessions. In other words, I sound like a know it all only because I constantly consult those who actually do, lol

I'm pretty partial to these here northern Colorado Rockies, myself, so I know how you feel. I need to get me a patch up in the bumps here, real soon.


----------



## FilthyFletch (Apr 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dude, Bernie would have qualified as a good republican for much of this country's history. We aren't nationalizing industry, just making sure everyone pays their fair share. You aren't against that, are you?


Define fair share as the 10 percent the wack jobs hate on pay almost 70% of all federal taxes taken in which in normal people math means they pay way way more then their fair share of taxes. Bernie a self described socialist wants to basically have us taxed out of living. People try to use Denmark as a socialist success story but forget they have a roughly 128% sales tax, The average yearly take home pay is $4800 a year less then the average US pay, they have a suicide rate hats 3 times higher then the US, the have a much lower happiness percentage then the US, and their national economic growth rate is about a 1/3 rd the US. So basically that's an economy in failure as is every single socialist based economy ever. To even think a socialist government will work with all the example of it being tried and always failing just makes you either a fool or just stupid no way around it and to support Bernie who is openly pushing for a guaranteed failed government with big government running every bit of your life is beyond stupid. I like freedom, opportunity to succeed and as little government in my life as possible. Bernie is against all of these things openly.


----------



## FilthyFletch (Apr 6, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> No educated person would say this. I mean educated currently, not 50 years ago. You're living in the past, bud.
> All forms of government fail. In the same way that the human risk of death is 100%; Every government will fail, every person will die. The most successful states currently on the planet are socialist democracies. Different than National or Marxist Socialism, it is called *Social Democracy*. Countries like Norway, Sweden, Netherlands and Iceland seem to be doing pretty well with it.
> 
> Learn the things!


You have a ton of learning to do lol...First if you go with the democrat lean you will find that the US states in the most financial mess and economic collapse are all democrat run and have been. The left does not understand basic economics and those states have higher internal theft then red states which kills the states. That's just fact... Then you quote the usual Countries that people who have zero clue what they are talking about try to push as a success. You have no idea of the real numbers and figures from these countries do you? Obviously not. The average take home in most of these is around $3500 a year less the the average US citizen, Each of these countries has a economic growth of about a third that of the US. Each of these countries has a suicide rate of more then double the US rate. The percent of happiness of it's citizens is about half that of the US happiness rate of it's citizens. You also know that the sale tax is roughly 120% or more in these counties meaning a $35000 car is around $60000.So I mean if you call a sluggish economic growth rate, unhappy suicidal citizens who make less money but pay extreme high taxes and have a huge government presence in every day life a success your right. Most people who don't hate life consider that a huge fail.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 6, 2016)

FilthyFletch said:


> Define fair share as the 10 percent the wack jobs hate on pay almost 70% of all federal taxes taken in which in normal people math means they pay way way more then their fair share of taxes. Bernie a self described socialist wants to basically have us taxed out of living. People try to use Denmark as a socialist success story but forget they have a roughly 128% sales tax, The average yearly take home pay is $4800 a year less then the average US pay, they have a suicide rate hats 3 times higher then the US, the have a much lower happiness percentage then the US, and their national economic growth rate is about a 1/3 rd the US. So basically that's an economy in failure as is every single socialist based economy ever. To even think a socialist government will work with all the example of it being tried and always failing just makes you either a fool or just stupid no way around it and to support Bernie who is openly pushing for a guaranteed failed government with big government running every bit of your life is beyond stupid. I like freedom, opportunity to succeed and as little government in my life as possible. Bernie is against all of these things openly.


Factually incorrect in more places than I have time for. Please confine this non growing discussion to politics.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 6, 2016)

FilthyFletch said:


> You have a ton of learning to do lol...First if you go with the democrat lean you will find that the US states in the most financial mess and economic collapse are all democrat run and have been. The left does not understand basic economics and those states have higher internal theft then red states which kills the states. That's just fact... Then you quote the usual Countries that people who have zero clue what they are talking about try to push as a success. You have no idea of the real numbers and figures from these countries do you? Obviously not. The average take home in most of these is around $3500 a year less the the average US citizen, Each of these countries has a economic growth of about a third that of the US. Each of these countries has a suicide rate of more then double the US rate. The percent of happiness of it's citizens is about half that of the US happiness rate of it's citizens. You also know that the sale tax is roughly 120% or more in these counties meaning a $35000 car is around $60000.So I mean if you call a sluggish economic growth rate, unhappy suicidal citizens who make less money but pay extreme high taxes and have a huge government presence in every day life a success your right. Most people who don't hate life consider that a huge fail.


Calling this guy politically ignorant simply makes you look all the more so.

Please confine this non growing discussion to politics.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 6, 2016)

No offense to any of you that enjoy talking what I consider dribble (politics), but please keep that shit where it belongs.......and it surely aint here with the fucking weed!! Thats all


----------



## GroErr (Apr 6, 2016)

Now I see why they developed that ignore function... Only way they could improve it is if it automatically deleted all posts in your thread by the member you ignored


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 6, 2016)

I fried this run pretty good in the early going, but the strange thing is that as weird as the plants look, they're putting on some serious buds at only 32 days. 

I'll get some pics in the morning. It's a head scratcher, for sure.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Apr 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I fried this run pretty good in the early going, but the strange thing is that as weird as the plants look, they're putting on some serious buds at only 32 days.
> 
> I'll get some pics in the morning. It's a head scratcher, for sure.


That's wonderful news, the roots must be nice and healthy, looking forward to seeing it progress.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 7, 2016)

Wups, too busy for pics today but I did get some leaf temps in the canopy with my IR laser heat gun. All the temps were mid to upper 70s, nothing broke 80. I think this is a bit cool, yes?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Wups, too busy for pics today but I did get some leaf temps in the canopy with my IR laser heat gun. All the temps were mid to upper 70s, nothing broke 80. I think this is a bit cool, yes?


Thats good leaf temps! Thats what you want, 70's


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Thats good leaf temps! Thats what you want, 70's


Was thinking they needed to be mid 80s, so cool. I'm going through everything with a fine toothed comb, it's like a whole new world of horsepower, gotta learn how to drive it!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Was thinking they needed to be mid 80s, so cool. I'm going through everything with a fine toothed comb, it's like a whole new world of horsepower, gotta learn how to drive it!


I am thinking high 70's is perfect. I was watching John Berfelo on youtube update his indoor a few months back and he was going through leaf temps, doing the same as you, hitting them with a laser. Seem to remember them performing optimal in high 70's.

FYI, CO2-enriched plants will produce more at a marginally higher temperature of just under 80*F (27*C). 

And the article it came from: http://www.theweedblog.com/what-is-the-ideal-temperature-for-growing-marijuana-plants/


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Apr 7, 2016)

_RB-26_ implies that's how he's getting 30+% THC out of GG#4, lower temps, 72-77f instead of 77-82f - I don't know, but he seems to think he does.

http://www.therooster.com/blog/how-colorado-man-grew-most-potent-strain-weed-you-can-legally-buy

http://www.vice.com/read/marijuanas-growers-are-upping-the-thc-ante-with-super-potent-pot-456

Is this bullshit, or not? I can't say with any certainty.


----------



## Mohican (Apr 8, 2016)

North Jungle before the rain yesterday:



Cheers,
Mo


----------



## sixstring2112 (Apr 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Wups, too busy for pics today but I did get some leaf temps in the canopy with my IR laser heat gun. All the temps were mid to upper 70s, nothing broke 80. I think this is a bit cool, yes?


leaf temp should always feel cooler than ambient air temps to the touch.if your leaves feel warm something is amuk.so another way of putting it is if your room is 80f and your leaves are 80f they aint happy plants,prob due to vpd.but i grab leaf all the time when i first enter the room just to see how the plants are doing.those plants you see praying to the lights always feel cooler than leaves laying down or even straight out(lights on ). i dont trust the lasers as much because alot of times they are reading the space(air) between the gun and what your pointing at.so using the gun you want to be as close as possible or your getting a mix of surface and air temps between the 2


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 8, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> leaf temp should always feel cooler than ambient air temps to the touch.if your leaves feel warm something is amuk.so another way of putting it is if your room is 80f and your leaves are 80f they aint happy plants,prob due to vpd.but i grab leaf all the time when i first enter the room just to see how the plants are doing.those plants you see praying to the lights always feel cooler than leaves laying down or even straight out(lights on ). i dont trust the lasers as much because alot of times they are reading the space(air) between the gun and what your pointing at.so using the gun you want to be as close as possible or your getting a mix of surface and air temps between the 2


Good advice, thank you. 

I think part of my issue is the water cooled air handler exhaust constantly blowing down the hallway and thus keeping things a bit too cold, air temp wise.

They're doing better as I reduce EC, I'll change out the sauce today.


----------



## sixstring2112 (Apr 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Good advice, thank you.
> 
> I think part of my issue is the water cooled air handler exhaust constantly blowing down the hallway and thus keeping things a bit too cold, air temp wise.
> 
> They're doing better as I reduce EC, I'll change out the sauce today.


that leaf temp thing works for everything,indoor and out.just like when you lay on a nice green lawn on a hot summer day.if you feel the grass its always coller than the air,and if healthy it will be moist.transpiring as it should to keep itself cold,or colder than the 95f air that day lol.when i was a young man,prolly about 18 i had this super smart dude i worked for in the nursery.we would walk in the greenhouses and the guy would always walk up and start touching plants.finally one day im like what are you looking for when you grab the plants all the time.and he explained this cool leaf deal to me and used the grass analogy i just used to explain it and it made perfect sense to me.learned so much from that guy over a 4 year period before they fired him.he wasa hippy dude,im sure he grew pot just never had the balls to ask him if he grew or smoked cause he was my boss.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 9, 2016)

Man I was just eyeing this Karma Headbanger I have running and was thinking this pretty girl would look awesome under your lights. Lots of big blockheads would fit well eh! Like a Sour Diesel mixed with a Headband. Next time around will top the shit out of her to see how well she fairs, but I imagine she will do great. http://karmagenetics.com/karmas-headbanger/


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 9, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Man I was just eyeing this Karma Headbanger I have running and was thinking this pretty girl would look awesome under your lights. Lots of big blockheads would fit well eh! Like a Sour Diesel mixed with a Headband. Next time around will top the shit out of her to see how well she fairs, but I imagine she will do great. http://karmagenetics.com/karmas-headbanger/


I'm game.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2016)

Latest update on the chiller is that it should be here Wednesday. 

Just in time for summer!


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 16, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> In the mountains.


In south western Ontario lol. Met a couple I'm Mexico and they have a well on their farm, get it pressurized every couple of years and run their whole house in gas. She's a cop so didn't mention the geny and mondo light set up ideal lol.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Latest update on the chiller is that it should be here Wednesday.
> 
> Just in time for summer!


Good to hear tyy


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 16, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Individual components are easier for most...no need to engineer a system that will do it all. And then if one component fails, the others are not affected. If your chiller fails, your entire system is down. If that happens in the winter...hope you have a fireplace.
> 
> I'm not arguing water is a much better coolant than air. I'm saying a furnace is generally a much more reliable machine than a chiller. Its pretty common for a furnace to last 15-20 years. Can a chiller last that many years?..maybe.
> 
> Back in the day, hot water heating (radiant) was the norm in multi story buildings, but its not any more. Why? I would say mainly due to the maintenance a hot water system requires over forced air. Particularly the expansion joints.


No it's mainly to do with price of install. Hot water heating/cooling is better than forced air for a number of reasons but the cost has become prohibitive for most.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> No it's mainly to do with price of install. Hot water heating/cooling is better than forced air for a number of reasons but the cost has become prohibitive for most.


To clarify; the installation cost is high enough that if you don't plan it as a long term installation it doesn't always make fiscal sense. 

That said, saving a fortune on heating costs makes up for high installation costs pretty quickly.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> No it's mainly to do with price of install. Hot water heating/cooling is better than forced air for a number of reasons but the cost has become prohibitive for most.


You know, he never addressed what happens in the winter when your FURNACE fails, lol


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> To clarify; the installation cost is high enough that if you don't plan it as a long term installation it doesn't always make fiscal sense.
> 
> That said, saving a fortune on heating costs makes up for high installation costs pretty quickly.


True that but that's the reason they've went out of favour, no one thinks ahead. Also if there is no access to nat. gas heat pumps are a great choice lol.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 17, 2016)

^^^^ just had too lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> True that but that's the reason they've went out of favour, no one thinks ahead. Also if there is no access to nat. gas heat pumps are a great choice lol.


You are fuckin' A right about how no one thinks ahead- except the ones making the big bux.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> ^^^^ just had too lol.


I believe tomorrow's heat pump will be built as a natural gas powered fuel cell cogeneration plant, sized for home use at around 5kW max output.

I understand fuel cells act a lot like COB LED chips in that they are more efficient at light loads than full bore.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I believe tomorrow's heat pump will be built as a natural gas powered fuel cell cogeneration plant, sized for home use at around 5kW max output.
> 
> I understand fuel cells act a lot like COB LED chips in that they are more efficient at light loads than full bore.


I believe your correct. They have compressors that run on nat. Gas/propane as well but still not popular. Here nat. Gas is only available for the city folk so everyone else is shit out if luck . My propane went up to $1.20 a liter last winter, electric was cheaper .


----------



## Mohican (Apr 17, 2016)




----------



## Mohican (Apr 17, 2016)

Gee - thanks.

JK


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

Not sure if I mentioned it here yet, but I'm seriously considering a switch to coco. 

I swapped out a leaking tub yesterday and today my floor is a half inch deep in res water again. I've fucking had it with rdwc.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Apr 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Not sure if I mentioned it here yet, but I'm seriously considering a switch to coco.
> 
> I swapped out a leaking tub yesterday and today my floor is a half inch deep in res water again. I've fucking had it with rdwc.


Ouch. Flooding sucks ass.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Ouch.


I thought it was better because it was compatible with water cooling. .. but that's not a good enough reason.


----------



## Mohican (Apr 17, 2016)

Where did @sunni go!


----------



## sunni (Apr 17, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Where did @sunni go!


i removed my post because it was rude  but im still here <3


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Apr 17, 2016)

sunni said:


> i removed my post because it was rude  but im still here <3


Hi @sunni, sorry I missed it! Everyone gets a turn, eh?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Hi @sunni, sorry I missed it! Everyone gets a turn, eh?


I take double turns, so nice people can skip...

Yeah, that it! That's the ticket!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Ouch. Flooding sucks ass.


It is in my basement with a concrete floor, so no lasting damage. 

I'm just sick of wasting my time with it. 

I use my pH meter a dozen times a day. My buddy who runs coco uses his a few times a week. 

I have better things to do than babysit nutrient solution.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

@CaptainCAVEMAN hey, long time no see!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Not sure if I mentioned it here yet, but I'm seriously considering a switch to coco.
> 
> I swapped out a leaking tub yesterday and today my floor is a half inch deep in res water again. I've fucking had it with rdwc.


Man I'll tell you what I think about coco.....fuck that shit. Its either soil or soil here. I attempted to switch to coco too a few years ago and I didnt like it. I would build my own "super soil" and then you just water only....thats the ticket


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Apr 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @CaptainCAVEMAN hey, long time no see!


Hey what's up tty!
I took some time to get my own system figured out. Sometimes all the new ideas and information is too much if you're doubting your own methods. I'm happy with where I'm at now. Its good to be back and seeing others figured out some of the same stuff I realized on my own.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> Hey what's up tty!
> I took some time to get my own system figured out. Sometimes all the new ideas and information is too much if you're doubting your own methods. I'm happy with where I'm at now. Its good to be back and seeing others figured out some of the same stuff I realized on my own.


Can you share?


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## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

@BOBBY_G what do you think of the iPonic 624 controller for two zones? 

I noticed you were talking about co2 monitors on another thread and you said to just get a controller. 

I'm replacing my old ones, which aren't Web compatible, among many other shortcomings.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

@Bachomp were you asking about my lights on a home made rotator?


----------



## Bachomp (Apr 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @Bachomp were you asking about my lights on a home made rotator?


Nope twas not I


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

Bachomp said:


> Nope twas not I


It was in the O Me O My thread, right before some house cleaning, cuz I couldn't find the post again. 

I must be going senile. About damned time!


----------



## Bachomp (Apr 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It was in the O Me O My thread, right before some house cleaning, cuz I couldn't find the post again.
> 
> I must be going senile. About damned time!


It's crazy cause I know what your talking about but it wasn't me hehe.


----------



## BOBBY_G (Apr 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @BOBBY_G what do you think of the iPonic 624 controller for two zones?
> 
> I noticed you were talking about co2 monitors on another thread and you said to just get a controller.
> 
> I'm replacing my old ones, which aren't Web compatible, among many other shortcomings.


if you have a use for that functionality i guess, seems a little spendy.

a good co2 and temp/humidity controller is pretty set-it-and-forget it

what use is knowing you ran out of CO2 if youre offsite and cant change it anyway?


----------



## Bachomp (Apr 17, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> if you have a use for that functionality i guess, seems a little spendy.
> 
> a good co2 and temp/humidity controller is pretty set-it-and-forget it
> 
> what use is knowing you ran out of CO2 if youre offsite and cant change it anyway?


Because you'll know! And knowledge is power!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> if you have a use for that functionality i guess, seems a little spendy.
> 
> a good co2 and temp/humidity controller is pretty set-it-and-forget it
> 
> what use is knowing you ran out of CO2 if youre offsite and cant change it anyway?


A phone call to the appropriate person? 

Much more than that, tho; full and continuous data logging is its own bonus.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2016)

Bachomp said:


> It's crazy cause I know what your talking about but it wasn't me hehe.


Ok so the thread was being deconstructed while I was trying to piece together what was being said. 

Who/what? Lol


----------



## .Pinworm. (Apr 18, 2016)

Just popped in for a peek, and it is all looking fire as per the usual, boss. I am thinking about trying my first vert setup here shortly, and am hoping to pick your brain a bit as I get started off. 

Keep up the kill work!


----------



## BOBBY_G (Apr 18, 2016)

it does appear to be pretty feature-rich

at first glance i tend to dismiss anything labeled with a little i in front of it as derivative unoriginal custy cashgrab gear

has anyone here actually used one? could look good but be shit for software for all you know


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

.Pinworm. said:


> Just popped in for a peek, and it is all looking fire as per the usual, boss. I am thinking about trying my first vert setup here shortly, and am hoping to pick your brain a bit as I get started off.
> 
> Keep up the kill work!


Many thanks, and I'd be honored to help!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> it does appear to be pretty feature-rich
> 
> at first glance i tend to dismiss anything labeled with a little i in front of it as derivative unoriginal custy cashgrab gear
> 
> has anyone here actually used one? could look good but be shit for software for all you know


I'm getting good reviews from my sources in the biz, reliability is said to be pretty solid. 

I don't know how many of the advanced features I'll end up needing (like remote control) but it's nice to know the capability is there.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> it does appear to be pretty feature-rich
> 
> at first glance i tend to dismiss anything labeled with a little i in front of it as derivative unoriginal custy cashgrab gear
> 
> has anyone here actually used one? could look good but be shit for software for all you know


Parent company is Link4, I believe? They seem to be a full line greenhouse and hydro control systems company. 

Seems like a plenty firm foundation to me, the I thing is there to specifically denote Internet compatability.


----------



## BOBBY_G (Apr 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Seems like a plenty firm foundation to me, the I thing is there to specifically denote Internet compatability.


im just used to everyone riding apples coattails for free brand recogntion

im just an iAsshurt consumer at this point


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Apr 18, 2016)

hey buddy..pages of talk..few vertical goodness cob photo's..or none maybe

yes i can help about coarse coco and swc[way way less liquid than dwc]

damn near as good

yes my proprietary design too[lol]

check out reply to airwalker who is thinking aboutb the same in

*My 8-3590 cob diy thread*


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> im just used to everyone riding apples coattails for free brand recogntion
> 
> im just an iAsshurt consumer at this point


It's both iPhone and Android compatible, lol


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> hey buddy..pages of talk..few vertical goodness cob photo's..or none maybe
> 
> yes i can help about coarse coco and swc[way way less liquid than dwc]
> 
> ...


Will do, thanks!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

Today's pics from the inaugural run with the new modules, 'Children of the COB';


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

In spite of frying them early in the run, they're swelling and putting on plenty of weight. In addition, they're wicked frosty and the scents are strong and nuanced. Finally, the buds are rock hard- even the resident fluff bomb, bubblegum, has dense nugs! 

So, no records will be set this run, but there is much to be said for the lighting being forgiving of this grower's fuck up.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 18, 2016)

i've probably asked you this before but roughly how long do you veg to get them that tall to fill in the whole screen?


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Apr 18, 2016)

not too friggin bad my friend!

imho they look better than your hid grows

good turn around too

4 stars****

[children of the cob]


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> i've probably asked you this before but roughly how long do you veg to get them that tall to fill in the whole screen?


If all goes well they fill in the top foot of the screen after they've hit bloom. I'm currently taking three months or more to grow a bloom ready plant- and that's a month too long. 

I'm switching to coco for awhile to gain consistency; I just keep fighting the rdwc too much. From what I can see, I may be able to shave as much as a month off the cutting to day one of bloom time, and that added vigor translates directly into better yields.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> not too friggin bad my friend!
> 
> imho they look better than your hid grows
> 
> ...


Thanks, lol I like the one of the left side; the plants are green, yellow and red, like a national flag, lol

Forgot to mention; today's pics above are at day 45 in bloom.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Today's pics from the inaugural run with the new modules, 'Children of the COB';
> View attachment 3660176 View attachment 3660177 View attachment 3660178 View attachment 3660179


How many cobs light up that metal trellis? And it was 4'x6'? Huge buds right there.


----------



## BOBBY_G (Apr 18, 2016)

jah love!


----------



## BOBBY_G (Apr 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's both iPhone and Android compatible, lol


well in this case sure, but im talking about the iVape and iClips and iCookware and iMaxipads and all the other shit branded with a little i to boost sales that has nothing to do with phones at all.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> well in this case sure, but im talking about the iVape and iClips and iCookware and iMaxipads and all the other shit branded with a little i to boost sales that has nothing to do with phones at all.


For the record, I'm totally with you. This thing is legit 'i' compatible material or I'd be every bit as ruthless in my scorn as you would be, lol

EDIT; ...and that lil fuckin "e" thing, too!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> How many cobs light up that metal trellis? And it was 4'x6'? Huge buds right there.


Each pic has three plants, each on its own 4' wide x 6' tall panel. Thus each wall is 6' tall by 12' long, or 72 sq ft, lit by 12 modules of 4 COBs and 225W each, for totals of 48 COBs and 2700W. Times two sides.

For scale, every square on the trellis panels is 4"x4".


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 18, 2016)

If your alert thingy blows up tty, I had a problem. The combination of being stoned and my phone acting up caused me to like and unlike repeatedly. Lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> If your alert thingy blows up tty, I had a problem. The combination of being stoned and my phone acting up caused me to like and unlike repeatedly. Lol.


Lol, me likey!


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lol, me likey!


Everything looks good.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Apr 18, 2016)

Is nobody building hydroponic controllers that provide a Swagger compatible openAPI? I smell an opportunity. Carry on.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Apr 18, 2016)

45 days they look really good<,-----------



could you mention how many watts of cob you are using in the same area as 
how many watts of HID?


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 18, 2016)

Think he said 2700 watts x2.


----------



## Mohican (Apr 18, 2016)

Raspberry Pi


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Apr 18, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Raspberry Pi


I've been working with the RPi, I'd like to make an open source hydro controller design, hardware and software.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Raspberry Pi


I want to, but I just have too many other irons in the fire.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I've been working with the RPi, I'd like to make an open source hydro controller design, hardware and software.


I'll test that!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> 45 days they look really good<,-----------
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, they got cooked with way high nute strength early, fucked up my ratios. They did bounce back okay, but this run is not gonna be one for the books, more like how well these lights let you get back on the fairway after screwing the pooch real good. I think 'forgiveness', aka fault tolerance, is a very desirable trait and this tech has it in spades. 



a mongo frog said:


> Think he said 2700 watts x2.


Correct. 2700W actual draw per side, 900W per 24 sq ft trellis. 

This is exactly the same wattage drawn by five 860W CDM Allstart lamps running on magnetic ballasts, also lighting the very same half dozen vertical trellis panels. 

It's a straight head to head.


----------



## SSGrower (Apr 18, 2016)

Catching up on the thread, nice work. Does your chiller have sidearm circuit for domestic hot water to or just baseboard heat?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> Catching up on the thread, nice work. Does your chiller have sidearm circuit for domestic hot water to or just baseboard heat?


It's a hot water tank with a water to water heat exchange coil and natural gas backup. 

I'm not sure I'll need the water to be more than 110F to do what I need it to do around the house and grow, and they said it would run that warm, provided there was sufficient heat to remove from the cooling circuit.


----------



## SSGrower (Apr 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's a hot water tank with a water to water heat exchange coil and natural gas backup.
> 
> I'm not sure I'll need the water to be more than 110F to do what I need it to do around the house and grow, and they said it would run that warm, provided there was sufficient heat to remove from the cooling circuit.


So you can actually draw water from the unit for say a shower? More accurately it has the capacity to do this without "costing" extra energy?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> So you can actually draw water from the unit for say a shower? More accurately it has the capacity to do this without "costing" extra energy?


The chiller has a capacity of 5 Tons of chilling- and 7.5 Tons of hydronic heating! Each circuit is separate and closed loop. 

It isn't costing extra power, the heat is being removed from the cooling side. Instead of being blowing directly into the air outside, it hearts a hot water circuit first. Excess heat beyond that needed to heat the hot side water circuit is rejected into the atmosphere conventionally. It's a fuckin sick setup.


----------



## SSGrower (Apr 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The chiller has a capacity of 5 Tons of chilling- and 7.5 Tons of hydronic heating! Each circuit is separate and closed loop.
> 
> It isn't costing extra power, the heat is being removed from the cooling side. Instead of being blowing directly into the air outside, it hearts a hot water circuit first. Excess heat beyond that needed to heat the hot side water circuit is rejected into the atmosphere conventionally. It's a fuckin sick setup.


That's what I was hoping I didn't see any brand or model info, but any chance you'd share? I saw the cost.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> That's what I was hoping I didn't see any brand or model info, but any chance you'd share? I saw the cost.


Chillking brand, custom build.


----------



## SSGrower (Apr 18, 2016)

Thanks, food for thought or more my reason for asking wouldn't it be nice to cool your house in the summer, store the heat in geothermal well or cistern?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> Thanks, food for thought or more my reason for asking wouldn't it be nice to cool your house in the summer, store the heat in geothermal well or cistern?


I have little need to store heat since I'm making more all the time in my grow room. It's a matter of moving heat from where it isn't desired to where it is. The chiller's job is merely to move that excess heat up the temperature gradient, thereby making it more accessible for use.

The house will be both heated and cooled, not just for the plants but the living spaces, too.

In a similar, but simplified approach, I've been using a 2 Ton chiller's rejected heat to warm my house this past winter- and this was the fourth winter I've done it!


----------



## SSGrower (Apr 18, 2016)

You might if you go all cob!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> You might if you go all cob!


I AM going all COB, and I'm comforted by the knowledge that they're 'only' 56% efficient yet; that other 44% will be plenty to keep me warm in a Colorado cold snap!


----------



## THCBrain (Apr 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'll test that!


I have 4 or 5 week to go on this horizontal grow, then ill be setting my room up to go vert! Looking forward to a change in tactics


----------



## SSGrower (Apr 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I AM going all COB, and I'm comforted by the knowledge that they're 'only' 56% efficient yet; that other 44% will be plenty to keep me warm in a Colorado cold snap!


Due to certain constraints there is no possibility of a garden of mine needing 5ton cooling but a 2ton unit instead of ac plus zoneing units can be remote and ductless......


----------



## a senile fungus (Apr 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Chillking brand, custom build.


I figured as much! 

The way you kept describing it, and the 10% more work the thing will do, had me guessing it was a chillking unit.

Awesome, can't wait to hear how it does.

Keep it up buddy


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

a senile fungus said:


> I figured as much!
> 
> The way you kept describing it, and the 10% more work the thing will do, had me guessing it was a chillking unit.
> 
> ...


I'll show it off when it gets here.


----------



## a senile fungus (Apr 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'll show it off when it gets here.



I almost bought one myself, lol.

Can't justify it yet though.... Soon enough, soon enough


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

a senile fungus said:


> I almost bought one myself, lol.
> 
> Can't justify it yet though.... Soon enough, soon enough


Considering that it's the new home heating plant for the foreseeable future, I felt it was a solid investment.


----------



## OneHitDone (Apr 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Not sure if I mentioned it here yet, but I'm seriously considering a switch to coco.
> 
> I swapped out a leaking tub yesterday and today my floor is a half inch deep in res water again. I've fucking had it with rdwc.


I keep having this argument with myself. I love coco but just can't seem to get the plants in to gear as fast as with hydro.
For veg, a dwc clone next to a coco clone still just blows my mind how much faster and more predictably I can grow a plant in a set time.
Maybe a hardware upgrade to some better/more leak proof components would remedy your dwc woes?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

If it isn't one thing it's another. It's not just coco that I'm considering, it's a complete system.


----------



## OneHitDone (Apr 19, 2016)

Do you have any tricks for getting seedlings to set roots in coco or any other media and blast off as fast as dwc?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Do you have any tricks for getting seedlings to set roots in coco or any other media and blast off as fast as dwc?


I'm about to find out.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

The funniest thing to us COB LED converts is when someone uses the electric bill to justify/indict the decision to switch. Why, you might ask?

COB LED runs cooler, saving both on power bills and helping to improve the quality of the product. Running cooler also saves on HVAC investment, maintenance and especially operating costs.

Better spectrum helps vigor, health, growth, terpenes and makes them look darn nice in the grow. Seriously.

No bulb replacement. Again, look past the basic costs of the biannual ritual of bulb replacement to realize that lumen/PAR depreciation doesn't just happen at the end of this interval, BOTH spectrum AND PAR/Watt efficiency suffer the effects of aging cumulatively, starting the very first time the lamp is struck. In other words, the only time the lamp actually delivers its rated output is during your very first day cycle. It's alllllllllll downhill from there. How much do you think a cumulative 15% less light costs YOU in terms of yield?

Then, there's the maintenance labor aspect itself; replacing bulbs is a bitch. And even dangerous, depending on where those lamps are and whether any get dropped.

Dropped HID?! INSTANT HAZMAT SITE! EVERY HID has mercury in it, so if you smash one, you've just coated the whole area in mercury dust- or vapor if it was running. Mercury very bad, just saying.

Power problems? COB LED don't care. But HID lamps must have a cooling off period, almost none of them will hot restrike.

So yeah, you'll save some on your power bill- but those savings will be dwarfed by the combination of even larger savings outlined above and in increased yields and quality.

I predict that in 5 years, only die hard Luddites will be clinging to their light bulbs, and they'll be finding lamp replacements to be a daunting challenge. This trend will be accelerated by the public perception of the indoor grow industry's wasteful habits, power company's desires to reduce demand and general environmentalism.


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## m4s73r (Apr 19, 2016)

I agree fully. Technology will win out always. And as LED become more and more sought after it will become more and more affordable. The days of $2300 panels will come to a end. Or become bigger fixtures. Even in the last several years on here watching the led forums and how the tech has moved along is proof enough. 

I just purchased 2 1k vert setups and only spent $450. 2 bulbs 2 ballast 2 sockets. And im 200 bucks in for my 8" exhaust system. So for right now, HID rules in bang for your buck in the here and now. But even I fully plan on stashing some cash aside for a couple of year and going to a led system. Ill watch your shenanigans in the mean time Ttystikk.


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## m4s73r (Apr 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm about to find out.


Moving to Coco? Did I miss something while i was gone? I may have to go back and read a few pages. Give organics a look man. I just water the pots. As soon as they bloom out and get chopped, Theyll get a couple cups of amendments, all the leaves will be put on the top of the pot, fresh clover layed in, and theyll sit for 3 weeks while the clones take off.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> I agree fully. Technology will win out always. And as LED become more and more sought after it will become more and more affordable. The days of $2300 panels will come to a end. Or become bigger fixtures. Even in the last several years on here watching the led forums and how the tech has moved along is proof enough.
> 
> I just purchased 2 1k vert setups and only spent $450. 2 bulbs 2 ballast 2 sockets. And im 200 bucks in for my 8" exhaust system. So for right now, HID rules in bang for your buck in the here and now. But even I fully plan on stashing some cash aside for a couple of year and going to a led system. Ill watch your shenanigans in the mean time Ttystikk.


Shenanigans are what I do best!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> Moving to Coco? Did I miss something while i was gone? I may have to go back and read a few pages. Give organics a look man. I just water the pots. As soon as they bloom out and get chopped, Theyll get a couple cups of amendments, all the leaves will be put on the top of the pot, fresh clover layed in, and theyll sit for 3 weeks while the clones take off.


I'm doing a coco DTW setup just like the commercial facility I'm cribbing the whole system from. I'm going to slavishly copy the whole thing, run it until I'm getting the results they do, then set about my usual program of ripping it to shreds in order to find ways to improve it.


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## m4s73r (Apr 19, 2016)

Should be fun then. Looks like those cobs are working out as well. Have we pulled a harvest from them yet?


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## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> Should be fun then. Looks like those cobs are working out as well. Have we pulled a harvest from them yet?


Couple weeks. Did you see the pics I posted yesterday? Cah-razee colors! Greasy oozy gooey sticky stinky, too.


----------



## m4s73r (Apr 19, 2016)

I did. Sounds like your happy with them. You ever run into a issue of vegging your plants too big before switch?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> I did. Sounds like your happy with them. You ever run into a issue of vegging your plants too big before switch?


Never. Lord knows I try...


----------



## m4s73r (Apr 19, 2016)

I think im going to crowd the shit out of my silo. Did you see those things? They should have been moved 3 weeks ago lmao. Going to have to do some major trimming.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 19, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> I think im going to crowd the shit out of my silo. Did you see those things? They should have been moved 3 weeks ago lmao. Going to have to do some major trimming.


Yeah, you bitching or bragging? LOL


----------



## m4s73r (Apr 20, 2016)

YES. yes i am.


----------



## SomeGuy (Apr 20, 2016)

Ty. I'm having quite a bit more roots in the rez of my sips than I expected. Might be worth looking at for you. I'm figuring I'm good as long as roots stay healthy. They are white as can be but getting massive. Lol. It's just water in the rez but they have started drinking tons. Growth rate is like hydro from what I can remember but all the nutrients are coming from the soil. I just plucked a leaf almost as big as an 8.5x11


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## garlictrain (Apr 20, 2016)

hey brother good thread!

i find most folks veg too long. soil or coco its strain dependent. jetfuelog triples+ as in 1 foot to 4 feet in 2 weeks.

i can't touch your cooling brain. i'm running wallbangers, ac/co2 burners and killing it. watching always for good advice.

you gave me some btw, 2.5, 2, 2... 5-11-26, calnitrate, epsoma.

i went from hempy 5 gals to hempy 2 gals coco dtw.

from 2 plants per 1k to 4-8/ 1k, 2lb+ per k.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> YES. yes i am.


Quite rightly!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Ty. I'm having quite a bit more roots in the rez of my sips than I expected. Might be worth looking at for you. I'm figuring I'm good as long as roots stay healthy. They are white as can be but getting massive. Lol. It's just water in the rez but they have started drinking tons. Growth rate is like hydro from what I can remember but all the nutrients are coming from the soil. I just plucked a leaf almost as big as an 8.5x11
> View attachment 3661351


SIPS? Not familiar with this acronym?


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## Vnsmkr (Apr 20, 2016)

sub irrigated planter


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## Vnsmkr (Apr 20, 2016)

http://gro-kashi.com/?page_id=8


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## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

garlictrain said:


> hey brother good thread!
> 
> i find most folks veg too long. soil or coco its strain dependent. my jetfuelog triples+ as in 1 foot to 4 feet in 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


Nice work! I can pull big yields from RDWC, it's just too damned finicky. 

Can you tell me a bit more about your hempy DTW setup? That's the route I'm going this time.


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## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> http://gro-kashi.com/?page_id=8


Thank you! Very helpful, with pictures even!


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## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

@Cannacat liking what you're seeing? Lol


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## m4s73r (Apr 20, 2016)

I use sips in my garden. I just set my 20gal pots on them, as i water any run off goes into the sip to be pulled up as needed. hardly ever water. You can also just add water to the rock and leave for a week.


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## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> I use sips in my garden. I just set my 20gal pots on them, as i water any run off goes into the sip to be pulled up as needed. hardly ever water. You can also just add water to the rock and leave for a week.


Wait a minute. You're watering a rock?


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## Cannacat (Apr 20, 2016)

Liking yes, understanding... not so much! Lol I pretty much just look for where you guys all are and then lurk... Just kidding, I have nothing to add to to most of what is being said, although I have been kept busy googling stuff! I'm about 10 pages in to this enormous thread and I have full confidence I'll come out the other end (about 80 pages away) with a lot more knowledge than I started with. You're all awesome. And/or fucking nuts. Carry on. 

*EDIT I don't know if I just haven't read far enough in to the thread yet, but while I have you, what is this secret that you are refusing to share that could end world hunger? I don't know what it is, but you should share that shit with the starving children man...


----------



## RM3 (Apr 20, 2016)

Cannacat said:


> *EDIT I don't know if I just haven't read far enough in to the thread yet, but while I have you, what is this secret that you are refusing to share that could end world hunger? I don't know what it is, but you should share that shit with the starving children man...


He has shared it as I have seen the pics 

just not shared it here yet ,,,,,,,,,,,,


----------



## Cannacat (Apr 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> He has shared it as I have seen the pics
> 
> just not shared it here yet ,,,,,,,,,,,,


Ooh, I'll look forward to that one then!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

Cannacat said:


> Liking yes, understanding... not so much! Lol I pretty much just look for where you guys all are and then lurk... Just kidding, I have nothing to add to to most of what is being said, although I have been kept busy googling stuff! I'm about 10 pages in to this enormous thread and I have full confidence I'll come out the other end (about 80 pages away) with a lot more knowledge than I started with. You're all awesome. And/or fucking nuts. Carry on.
> 
> *EDIT I don't know if I just haven't read far enough in to the thread yet, but while I have you, what is this secret that you are refusing to share that could end world hunger? I don't know what it is, but you should share that shit with the starving children man...


Just let me finish proving the fucker works first, don't worry!

And it isn't a secret; all the tech you see everyone using indoors is pointing the way forward towards a future where getting your veggies from inside a shipping container means you grew them yourself, instead of having them delivered.


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## m4s73r (Apr 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Wait a minute. You're watering a rock?


well yeah, the rocks holds water to be "sip'ed" up into the pot.


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 20, 2016)

Happy 420 my grow friends


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Happy 420 my grow friends


Happy 420 to all, and to all a good rip!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> well yeah, the rocks holds water to be "sip'ed" up into the pot.


Ok, I see. I'll be doing something similar with coco, only my hempy/sip will just be the same RDWC tubs I'm running now. I won't fill them and circulate water, of course, instead I'll be top feeding a 5 gallon bucket with holes drilled in the bottom. Excess water will run out those holes and get caught in the tub, roots will follow and the whole thing should easily support the growth of a two to three pounder.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

Pics of a Hillbilly Hobby awaiting chop;


----------



## Cannacat (Apr 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Pics of a Hillbilly Hobby awaiting chop;
> View attachment 3661720 View attachment 3661721


Now that's what I was looking for, flicking backwards through the thread! Wow, they're huge, that's beautiful! Is that really one plant, cos I can only see one big stem but... well, it's enormous?Wow! We've been having discussions, the last few days, about when ours will be ready. We're like, 5 or 6 weeks into 12/12 and I refuse to schedule a date on the calendar and say that this is when we're taking them down. I'm not taking them down until I can see that they're ready. My middle man insists that another week and they'll be far enough that he can get rid, and insists he needs a final date. After looking at your buds, and seeing them up close at that massive scale, I can see the differences in the development between yours and mine and now feel more confident in insisting that I will know when they're done and they won't come down a second before. Why rush them now, after all this time? You've done an awesome job with the vertical grow


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Apr 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Pics of a Hillbilly Hobby awaiting chop;
> View attachment 3661720 View attachment 3661721


How tall is that and how many weeks did it take to veg and flower? That plant is a monster!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

Cannacat said:


> Now that's what I was looking for, flicking backwards through the thread! Wow, they're huge, that's beautiful! Is that really one plant, cos I can only see one big stem but... well, it's enormous?Wow! We've been having discussions, the last few days, about when ours will be ready. We're like, 5 or 6 weeks into 12/12 and I refuse to schedule a date on the calendar and say that this is when we're taking them down. I'm not taking them down until I can see that they're ready. My middle man insists that another week and they'll be far enough that he can get rid, and insists he needs a final date. After looking at your buds, and seeing them up close at that massive scale, I can see the differences in the development between yours and mine and now feel more confident in insisting that I will know when they're done and they won't come down a second before. Why rush them now, after all this time? You've done an awesome job with the vertical grow


Thank you! The look of this individual is a product of both strain and environment, she's got dreadlocks because things ran a bit warm and one of her parents is Moonshine Haze. (The other is pre '98 Bubba Kush) That's taken at 68 days from flip.


----------



## m4s73r (Apr 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ok, I see. I'll be doing something similar with coco, only my hempy/sip will just be the same RDWC tubs I'm running now. I won't fill them and circulate water, of course, instead I'll be top feeding a 5 gallon bucket with holes drilled in the bottom. Excess water will run out those holes and get caught in the tub, roots will follow and the whole thing should easily support the growth of a two to three pounder.


ahh ok. So they will be self contained units?


----------



## RM3 (Apr 20, 2016)

Cannacat said:


> Now that's what I was looking for, flicking backwards through the thread! Wow, they're huge, that's beautiful! Is that really one plant, cos I can only see one big stem but... well, it's enormous?Wow! We've been having discussions, the last few days, about when ours will be ready. We're like, 5 or 6 weeks into 12/12 and I refuse to schedule a date on the calendar and say that this is when we're taking them down. I'm not taking them down until I can see that they're ready. My middle man insists that another week and they'll be far enough that he can get rid, and insists he needs a final date. After looking at your buds, and seeing them up close at that massive scale, I can see the differences in the development between yours and mine and now feel more confident in insisting that I will know when they're done and they won't come down a second before. Why rush them now, after all this time? You've done an awesome job with the vertical grow


You can always post a pic and get our opinion  

after all I am the guy with are they done link in my sig


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> ahh ok. So they will be self contained units?


They're the same RDWC system and tubs. The only thing I'm doing is replacing the netpot bucket lids and five gallon bucket spacers with the whole five gallon bucket, full of coco. It's quite literally a drop in fit. Since there's no need for deep water and circulation, there will no longer be a circ pump or water cooling coil. Instead, the same pump will operate intermittently on a short cycle timer to fertigate the plants, top feed style just like they are now.

Excess water will run out of many drain holes drilled into the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket and puddle in the bottom of the tub. Roots will follow it out and soak up the excess as the plants get bigger. The roots won't air prune because they'll be in humid dark conditions, soaking up water.

The connecting lines of the RDWC system will be very useful to flush and drain the system between runs. Other than that I'm not sure it will be used. In this way, I'm ensuring that the floor will finally, for once and for all, be dry and clean! Before, if it wasn't leaking, it was condensation that led to chronically wet floors. Not acceptable.


----------



## Mohican (Apr 20, 2016)

Happy 420

420 tree:



Cheers,
Mo


----------



## OneHitDone (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They're the same RDWC system and tubs. The only thing I'm doing is replacing the netpot bucket lids and five gallon bucket spacers with the whole five gallon bucket, full of coco. It's quite literally a drop in fit. Since there's no need for deep water and circulation, there will no longer be a circ pump or water cooling coil. Instead, the same pump will operate intermittently on a short cycle timer to fertigate the plants, top feed style just like they are now.
> 
> Excess water will run out of many drain holes drilled into the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket and puddle in the bottom of the tub. Roots will follow it out and soak up the excess as the plants get bigger. The roots won't air prune because they'll be in humid dark conditions, soaking up water.
> 
> The connecting lines of the RDWC system will be very useful to flush and drain the system between runs. Other than that I'm not sure it will be used. In this way, I'm ensuring that the floor will finally, for once and for all, be dry and clean! Before, if it wasn't leaking, it was condensation that led to chronically wet floors. Not acceptable.


Do you have a plan of attack for the ever friendly fungus gnat?
I find them to be a constant battle when I bring coco indoors - Bastards!!


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 21, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Do you have a plan of attack for the ever friendly fungus gnat?
> I find them to be a constant battle when I bring coco indoors - Bastards!!


Hey bro. I use this stuff. One drench and they are history. 

Might be able to find it closer to you or another name? 

http://www.easygrow.co.nz/pest-control/812-vecto-bac-10grms.html


----------



## Cannacat (Apr 21, 2016)

RM3 said:


> You can always post a pic and get our opinion
> 
> after all I am the guy with are they done link in my sig


I will, don't worry lol I intend to. I know they aren't ready yet, there's new pics in my journal if you want a look but when I'm thinking they look done, I'll be checking with you guys before I chop anything!


kiwipaulie said:


> Hey bro. I use this stuff. One drench and they are history.
> 
> Might be able to find it closer to you or another name?
> 
> http://www.easygrow.co.nz/pest-control/812-vecto-bac-10grms.html


I can't seem to find anything that anybody's recommended to me easily available in the UK! The gnats didn't bother me, I only see the odd one and they're a bit annoying but I put up some sticky strips and didn't worry much about it. Then I saw the larvae. I need that shit out of my plants. I can't be faced with them every time I water, they're ruining growing for me! Will this do it? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tanlin-20ml-Fungus-Gnat-Fly-Pesticide-Larvae-Killer-CX-Hydroponics-/261923597652?hash=item3cfbdced54:g:PZ0AAOSwNSxVeA8g


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Do you have a plan of attack for the ever friendly fungus gnat?
> I find them to be a constant battle when I bring coco indoors - Bastards!!


A layer of diatomaceous earth on top of the coco.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> A layer of diatomaceous earth on top of the coco.


your going large pot coco?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> your going large pot coco?


5 gallon Homer buckets, with hempy for the overflow. Is that large?


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 5 gallon Homer buckets, with hempy for the overflow. Is that large?


Not sure what Homer bucket is, but no 5 gallon aint large. Some reason i imagined big pots. 15's or 20's.


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## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Not sure what Homer bucket is, but no 5 gallon aint large. Some reason i imagined big pots. 15's or 20's.


Every orange 5 gallon pail in a Home dePot is a Homer bucket, they used to actually have a pic of big Daddy Simpson.

The plants will get the 5 gallons of coco to stretch out in, then both excess water and the roots to use it will flow thru the holes I'll drill in the bottom of the pail.

My concern is that 5 gallon pails aren't big enough so I'm trying to find space for the overflow.


----------



## Growdict (Apr 21, 2016)

i second the DE to get rid of fungus gnats. wiped mine out in a few days. with a couple of yellow stickies to kill the adults. actually i just use it all the time now.


----------



## OneHitDone (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Every orange 5 gallon pail in a Home dePot is a Homer bucket, they used to actually have a pic of big Daddy Simpson.
> 
> The plants will get the 5 gallons of coco to stretch out in, then both excess water and the roots to use it will flow thru the holes I'll drill in the bottom of the pail.
> 
> My concern is that 5 gallon pails aren't big enough so I'm trying to find space for the overflow.


Why not just fill your totes with coco?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Why not just fill your totes with coco?


Cuz 27 gallons of it per plant is unnecessary and excessive.


----------



## garlictrain (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Nice work! I can pull big yields from RDWC, it's just too damned finicky.
> 
> Can you tell me a bit more about your hempy DTW setup? That's the route I'm going this time.





ttystikk said:


> Ok, I see. I'll be doing something similar with coco, only my hempy/sip will just be the same RDWC tubs I'm running now. I won't fill them and circulate water, of course, instead I'll be top feeding a 5 gallon bucket with holes drilled in the bottom. Excess water will run out those holes and get caught in the tub, roots will follow and the whole thing should easily support the growth of a two to three pounder.


that was essentially my last run. testing larger (5gal) coco hempy "top pulse" fed (thanks homebrew420!) dtw with a giant pond liner catch that roots swimming in salts by day 14.

at 2 plants per light my largest plant yielded 1.25 lbs and my smallest was a cindy99 runt that pulled 10 oz under a 1/2 k.

i run a few **cough, cough** rooms so in another I had 2 gal coco hempys top pulse fed about 4-6 per light (strain dependent). i like the 5's for lower plant count but for abundance of medicine shorter veg, unicrop, pulse feed dtw. truth be told i've thrown regular pots coco non hempys into the same set up and push that as the beginner package.

the veg on my 2 gals vs 5 gals is 1-2wks vs 4-5 wks respectively. my 2 gals crushed the 5's and i have the nums to be legally flying. with rotating blooms i can pre-veg in the room i'll be flipping in.


----------



## OneHitDone (Apr 21, 2016)

Are you going to be reusing your coco?

I agree, you don't need a large volume of coco to grow a monster plant for a long time with proper irrigation timing


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

garlictrain said:


> that was essentially my last run. testing larger (5gal) coco hempy "top pulse" fed (thanks homebrew420!) dtw with a giant pond liner catch that roots swimming in salts by day 14.
> 
> at 2 plants per light my largest plant yielded 1.25 lbs and my smallest was a cindy99 runt that pulled 10 oz under a 1/2 k.
> 
> ...


That's a lot to suggest. I'm sure I'll have some questions for you. Meanwhile, thank you for this! 

Can you explain a lil more about pulse top feed?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Are you going to be reusing your coco?
> 
> I agree, you don't need a large volume of coco to grow a monster plant for a long time with proper irrigation timing


At the moment, since I'm emulating another setup, I'll be tossing my coco every run like they do. I'm not happy about it, either.


----------



## OneHitDone (Apr 21, 2016)

I can see why on a commercial scale they don't reuse it due to labor issues. The grow bag with the coco block already in them look like a perfect setup for someone running high plant counts.
I have a set of pots that are going on like round 4 with coco/perlite and a tad hydroton mixed in 
Whenever I have "extra's" they seem to find a home there and do quite well with neglectful hand watering


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> I can see why on a commercial scale they don't reuse it due to labor issues. The grow bag with the coco block already in them look like a perfect setup for someone running high plant counts.
> I have a set of pots that are going on like round 4 with coco/perlite and a tad hydroton mixed in
> Whenever I have "extra's" they seem to find a home there and do quite well with neglectful hand watering


I'm a big fan of recycling. The commercial ops do it this way because of regulations, not by choice. Long story.


----------



## pop22 (Apr 21, 2016)

Hey! I think you should see this:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/trademarking-strain-names-boycott-big-budha-seeds.906799/


----------



## pop22 (Apr 21, 2016)

I just switched to coco in autopots, best upgrade I've made yet!



ttystikk said:


> Not sure if I mentioned it here yet, but I'm seriously considering a switch to coco.
> 
> I swapped out a leaking tub yesterday and today my floor is a half inch deep in res water again. I've fucking had it with rdwc.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Hey! I think you should see this:
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/trademarking-strain-names-boycott-big-budha-seeds.906799/


It was inevitable. It's also gonna be a fight; they should've stuck with something they can prove.


----------



## pop22 (Apr 21, 2016)

I'm 60 days into my autopot grow of Trainwreck.I ph the solution just before top up and thats it. My res last about a week with the 4 pot system and my plants look great! NO: pump, air pump, chillers, blah blah... Just how I like me grows, simple!

Now this is an auto so judge its size accordingly, trust me, this is a great plant!



 


ttystikk said:


> It is in my basement with a concrete floor, so no lasting damage.
> 
> I'm just sick of wasting my time with it.
> 
> ...


----------



## pop22 (Apr 21, 2016)

I'm doing both, but damn, coco is kicking ass!



Vnsmkr said:


> Man I'll tell you what I think about coco.....fuck that shit. Its either soil or soil here. I attempted to switch to coco too a few years ago and I didnt like it. I would build my own "super soil" and then you just water only....thats the ticket


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 21, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'm doing both, but damn, coco is kicking ass!


<Partial to soil. Mine is as natural as it gets


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> <Partial to soil. Mine is as natural as it gets


I'm not knocking it.


----------



## pop22 (Apr 21, 2016)

If you don't mind, I use Rootmaker Pro propagation cells. I make a mix of worm castings and coco, 50-50. the mix give the seedlings a big boost and it holds together well during transplant. I sprout in that and when the leaves are just wider than the cell, i transplant to the pot of coco. The Trainwreck I posted was started that way. Works very well, and I've been using the width of the seedling's leaves as a transplant guide for sometime now. I've never have a seedling delay after transplant, I always see growth in less than 24 hours, usually in less than 12 hours!

here's a link to the propagation cells.and Rootmakers has some great info on root development on their site.

http://rootmaker.com/retail/20



OneHitDone said:


> Do you have any tricks for getting seedlings to set roots in coco or any other media and blast off as fast as dwc?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm not knocking it.


I know


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 21, 2016)

I heard we are talking about single ended hps over here today!!!!! Fun!!!!!!!!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I heard we are talking about single ended hps over here today!!!!! Fun!!!!!!!!


Yep, I have a box of like 30 used ones. Cheap. Want some?


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yep, I have a box of like 30 used ones. Cheap. Want some?


No thanks. Ill take your cmh set ups though. 6 of them!!!!!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> No thanks. Ill take your cmh set ups though. 6 of them!!!!!


Well since they're now complete fixtures, I can charge what Hydrofarm does; $499 each, lol


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Well since they're now complete fixtures, I can charge what Hydrofarm does; $499 each, lol


Can you put in a bat wing for half that? Please?


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 21, 2016)

Newgrower8893 said:


> What's up guys. I don't know why the admins waste there time blocking me when I can get a new account at every library in America! Or the phones I go through like water. I bought my last one for a weed pipe and sold it for a dose last night! Arcata is pretty great but I'm on my way to the highway of the giants..Garbersville and then on to Haight and Ashbury. I can't wait to finally see it. They have some pretty fucking beautiful outdoor here I must say. It taste's great grown right in the ground and gets dense as hell. So one of my mom's friends said they want to make me a website called miles's great adventure! What do you guys think? lol I'm not settling on a girl until I find one that will follow me around and squeeze oranges on me all day! Not taking anything less lol. I might never leave hippie hill. Oh wait there's a chick in boulder I need to see so I better find what I came for and get back asap. I'm about to go to the guitar store and buy this sick 12 string an old Sigma. 200 bucks with a hardshell case. Ty won't ever message me back so I guess I'll just keep throwing you guys these random updates...if this bothers him he really needs to relax and smoke a fucking joint lol. Yeah a dollar here gets you a handful. Some bum in the park got a pound of untrimmed from last year for 25 bucks lmao he was giving it all away yesterday. It's nuts here I can't wait to see the rest of the world! Our weed is still better though...no questions asked!


No ones going to let you in there garden with your attitude up here. Are you even aloud in this state?


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It is in my basement with a concrete floor, so no lasting damage.
> 
> I'm just sick of wasting my time with it.
> 
> ...


I was on the verge when the rot hit but I've come this far lol. I only run 100 liter res's but PH is one of the only things that is steady between Res changes.


----------



## garlictrain (Apr 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's a lot to suggest. I'm sure I'll have some questions for you. Meanwhile, thank you for this!
> 
> Can you explain a lil more about pulse top feed?


feeding anywhere from 4-12x per day utilizing drip irrigation and a cycle timer that will turn on (from 10sec to 1min +) at a designated interval (every hr, 2 hrs, 4 hrs etc). i shoot for minimal run off. 

every coco grower has seen the ph swing if they let the substrate dry out. if hand watering this can develop quickly from every other day to daily. 

if you take the time to build the root capillary a single well placed drip line will be the grow partner you never had.

by using hempys you can control feed that much more and minimize overall nutrient usage, as we all know. 

also i don't reuse my coco as i use mkp and have seen veg hit with leftover mkp in the bottom of a rez.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2016)

garlictrain said:


> feeding anywhere from 4-12x per day utilizing drip irrigation and a cycle timer that will turn on (from 10sec to 1min +) at a designated interval (every hr, 2 hrs, 4 hrs etc). i shoot for minimal run off.
> 
> every coco grower has seen the ph swing if they let the substrate dry out. if hand watering this can develop quickly from every other day to daily.
> 
> ...


This sounds very much like the direction I'm planning to go.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2016)

Because we do not fuck around, the new batch is in place and soaking up the COB LED rays; 
  

Yeah, who's up for round TWO?!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2016)

The first batch, fried as it is, will at least cover its nut. Very pretty purps, very sticky and stinky. The bad news is they got some PM on the backside due to a lack of adequate airflow and ventilation against the panda film.

If you look carefully, you'll notice these have several inches of clearance between trellis and the reflective surface behind them, specifically to address that problem.


----------



## pop22 (Apr 23, 2016)

Makes me almost want to chop away in my tent and start a vertical grow!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Makes me almost want to chop away in my tent and start a vertical grow!


Heh heh heh... it's infectious, isn't it?


----------



## m4s73r (Apr 23, 2016)

Damn that sucks on the pm. I was wondering about that. I may take mine off once buds start setting in. I'm 3 days into bloom temps running 80. humidity is around 50.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> Damn that sucks on the pm. I was wondering about that. I may take mine off once buds start setting in. I'm 3 days into bloom temps running 80. humidity is around 50.


Best bet is to clean up the vegetation that's pressed against the trellis in back.

Then create a space between plastic and plants, even a few inches is good.


----------



## pinner420 (Apr 23, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Do you have a plan of attack for the ever friendly fungus gnat?
> I find them to be a constant battle when I bring coco indoors - Bastards!!


Bake @ 220 for 20 min.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 24, 2016)

Because I'm OCD and some questions just won't go away;

Like, WTF is the grab handle on the FLOOR for?!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Because I'm OCD and some questions just won't go away;
> 
> Like, WTF is the grab handle on the FLOOR for?!
> 
> View attachment 3664492


Thats for when you get real fukked up and need to stop spinning when you are praying to the porcelain god


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 24, 2016)

Where the fuck is that anyway? Looks like something which would get added here.....


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 24, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Where the fuck is that anyway? Looks like something which would get added here.....


Unisex bathroom in a gay bar.

Why am I here? 

Cuz even tho I'm straight, I find gay people a lot more fun to hang out with than intolerant straight people. 

Don't like it? Blow me.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Unisex bathroom in a gay bar.
> 
> Why am I here?
> 
> ...


Well its the "oh shit" bar, literally....nothing wrong with gay people, they are people too, and they like good music


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 24, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Well its the "oh shit" bar, literally....nothing wrong with gay people, they are people too, and they like good music


They're real people, which at my age is the most refreshing aspect. And the music was the best out of all of Foco MX. Go figure.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 24, 2016)

The very hot lesbian girl next to me struck up a conversation and was shocked to realize my friend (another DJ performing that night) and I were there and straight, lol

I found myself explaining that I prefer hanging out with gay people to spending time around intolerant straight people.


----------



## pinner420 (Apr 24, 2016)

Dip me in honey and throw me to the lesbians.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 24, 2016)

I'm a lesbian in disguise


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 24, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I'm a lesbian in disguise


Oh yeah. The butchies I meet last night would just LOVE you!


----------



## SomeGuy (Apr 24, 2016)

Damn clean bar restroom.... Lol!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 24, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Damn clean bar restroom.... Lol!


I thought so, too- especially for a Saturday night.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Oh yeah. The butchies I meet last night would just LOVE you!


Im sure they would. Compteting with their pussy eating


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> A layer of diatomaceous earth on top of the coco.


Sand, perlite, mulch anything to break the breeding cycle.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 25, 2016)

Hey ttystikk what size tubing would you recommend if I was to make my future 20l dwc go rdwc. My local grow store sells them in max 19mm fittings.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 25, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey ttystikk what size tubing would you recommend if I was to make my future 20l dwc go rdwc. My local grow store sells them in max 19mm fittings.


That's your size, then. I used 25mm, but if you can't get it, don't sweat it.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Apr 25, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Sand, perlite, mulch anything to break the breeding cycle.


Open flames, acetone...


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's your size, then. I used 25mm, but if you can't get it, don't sweat it.


Cheers bro. What's your thoughts on this. I'm going to run 4 x 20l buckets and I was thinking of putting the res in the middle (so 5 buckets in total) So the fan will sit on top of the res if that makes sense.

What's the best way to connect the return tubes, could I just have one from each bucket to the res, or do I need to daisy chain them back to the res? Hope that makes sense.


----------



## PKHydro (Apr 25, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers bro. What's your thoughts on this. I'm going to run 4 x 20l buckets and I was thinking of putting the res in the middle (so 5 buckets in total) So the fan will sit on top of the res if that makes sense.
> 
> What's the best way to connect the return tubes, could I just have one from each bucket to the res, or do I need to daisy chain them back to the res? Hope that makes sense.


I'd make each bucket have its own return line to the res. I use to have multiple buckets hook into a main return line, I had issues with some buckets not draining properly, air locks etc. With only 4 buckets it's easy to have each one on its own.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 25, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> I'd make each bucket have its own return line to the res. I use to have multiple buckets hook into a main return line, I had issues with some buckets not draining properly, air locks etc. With only 4 buckets it's easy to have each one on its own.


I second this. 

I'd suggest having your control bucket someplace easy to reach since that's where you'll be adding nutes, changing water, etc. The middle of the setup is usually not the best spot, cuz it's just too crowded.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I second this.
> 
> I'd suggest having your control bucket someplace easy to reach since that's where you'll be adding nutes, changing water, etc. The middle of the setup is usually not the best spot, cuz it's just too crowded.


Yeah maybe i wasn't thinking right on that placement. 

How do you keep the roots out of the tubes. Id imagine 19mm would fill up quick. Or do you just prune them from time to time.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 25, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Yeah maybe i wasn't thinking right on that placement.
> 
> How do you keep the roots out of the tubes. Id imagine 19mm would fill up quick. Or do you just prune them from time to time.


I stick my hand down there and pull off the lil tail that goes into the hole.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 25, 2016)

I like this guy's mixes. Not sure if you had heard of him, probably very likely . Also dig some Joey Negro; check him out if you havent already.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 26, 2016)

Cheers for all your help lately ttystikk and a few others!! 

I've now slapped to together my first rdwc  After a dry/wet run its all sealed and pumps perfectly. I know I have a few more adjustments, but I can already see I'm going to like this style of growing. 

Any suggestions greatly welcomed!! Don't worry about the air pump, going to find a place off the floor.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 26, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers for all your help lately ttystikk and a few others!!
> 
> I've now slapped to together my first rdwc  After a dry/wet run its all sealed and pumps perfectly. I know I have a few more adjustments, but I can already see I'm going to like this style of growing.
> 
> Any suggestions greatly welcomed!! Don't worry about the air pump, going to find a place off the floor.


Nice! Now, how ya gonna keep that water cool?


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Nice! Now, how ya gonna keep that water cool?


Shouldn't be to much of an issue throughout winter. Summer ill have to have a think about that lol.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 26, 2016)

I know what ill do now  just grab an old chest freezer and slap a stc1000 and just plumb a res out of that. 

Id be able to control the exact res temp with no issues. 

I use them in my brewing and work awesome.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 26, 2016)

Hey ttystikk one other thing I was going to say. Do you think it would be a smart move to add a drain plug (attached to the return line, close to the res) on my buckets so that if the return hose gets blocked by roots and I don't notice, then then it will just suck it off the overflow, if that makes sense. 

I just don't want it messing with the flow of the pump.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 26, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey ttystikk one other thing I was going to say. Do you think it would be a smart move to add a drain plug (attached to the return line, close to the res) on my buckets so that if the return hose gets blocked by roots and I don't notice, then then it will just suck it off the overflow, if that makes sense.
> 
> I just don't want it messing with the flow of the pump.


I have 4 holes in every one of my tubs for exactly this reason.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I have 4 holes in every one of my tubs for exactly this reason.


Sweet. Last thing id want is 60l of nutes pumped out all over the floor lol.

You think I could get away with just one hole per tub. My pump isn't that powerful, just 700l per hour.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 26, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Sweet. Last thing id want is 60l of nutes pumped out all over the floor lol.
> 
> You think I could get away with just one hole per tub. My pump isn't that powerful, just 700l per hour.


Consider a second hole in each grow bucket, this time right at the maximum allowable height of water. This would also drain to the control bucket and would serve as an emergency secondary. Since it's not ordinarily in use, roots won't be pulled into it.

The line from this upper hole could drop right down to the normal return line, connected with a T fitting. Keep the fitting far enough downstream that roots traveling down the normal drain hole won't clog it, too.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Consider a second hole in each grow bucket, this time right at the maximum allowable height of water. This would also drain to the control bucket and would serve as an emergency secondary. Since it's not ordinarily in use, roots won't be pulled into it.
> 
> The line from this upper hole could drop right down to the normal return line, connected with a T fitting. Keep the fitting far enough downstream that roots traveling down the normal drain hole won't clog it, too.


Cheers ttystikk!! I was thinking that would be the best place to put it. Would you put it so water can hit the bottom of the wick or just below it?

You are a legend with the amount of help you have given me lately!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 26, 2016)

Hey @ttystikk just curious, isnt it counterproductive of the cannabis community to have a political forum on a cannabis forum? ha ha just fucking with you; I know you like to talk politics so just giving you some shit. I flip over to new posts and sometimes (no alot of times) see this guy called finshaggy spouting all sorts of shit, and I do mean shit.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 26, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers ttystikk!! I was thinking that would be the best place to put it.
> 
> You are a legend with the amount of help you have given me lately!


He is a huge help all around. And we do appreciate it Ttystikk


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 27, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers ttystikk!! I was thinking that would be the best place to put it. Would you put it so water can hit the bottom of the wick or just below it?
> 
> You are a legend with the amount of help you have given me lately!


Wick? In RDWC? I'm lost...

Set the upper drain line at the highest level you'd ever want to see in the pail.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 27, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Hey @ttystikk just curious, isnt it counterproductive of the cannabis community to have a political forum on a cannabis forum? ha ha just fucking with you; I know you like to talk politics so just giving you some shit. I flip over to new posts and sometimes (no alot of times) see this guy called finshaggy spouting all sorts of shit, and I do mean shit.


The great thing about an open political system is that everyone can contribute- and everyone can judge everyone else's viewpoint in light of their own perspective and experience. 

There will always be crazy people, wingnuts, buffoons, comedians, rabble rousers, polemics, single issue screamers and the rest. If their voices are at least heard, perhaps they won't feel the need to go on a rampage just to bring attention to their cause. 

And at least SOME of what @Finshaggy makes sense. It's open to debate whether it's merely the broken clock (it's right twice a day) or if there more to it. 

There was once a crazy guy who wandered around the dirt streets of the gold rush town of San Francisco in the 1850s, spouting all kinds of crazy shit about how someday the area would be home to millions of people (more than lived west of the Mississippi at the time), and that someday there would be a bridge across the Golden Gate. Everyone ridiculed this guy, these ideas were simply preposterous!


----------



## Growdict (Apr 27, 2016)

I think he is meaning the net pot. Not wick


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 27, 2016)

Growdict said:


> I think he is meaning the net pot. Not wick


If this is the case, then set the level an inch below the bottom of the netpot


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 27, 2016)

Growdict said:


> I think he is meaning the net pot. Not wick


Yip. They call it a wick down here


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If this is the case, then set the level an inch below the bottom of the netpot


Just the answer I was looking for


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 27, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Yip. They call it a wick down here


They may mean 'wicket', or basket. There are substrate systems that use a wicking system to draw up water from beneath. This is different, because you don't want the substrate touching the water in rdwc.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They may mean 'wicket', or basket. There are substrate systems that use a wicking system to draw up water from beneath. This is different, because you don't want the substrate touching the water in rdwc.


@ttystikk ever have you ever thought about doing some ~25 gallon no till pots in your setup? Once you got your medium like you wanted you would only need a top drip of agua. Just curious


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 27, 2016)

This is a decent rendering of a no till garden:


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They may mean 'wicket', or basket. There are substrate systems that use a wicking system to draw up water from beneath. This is different, because you don't want the substrate touching the water in rdwc.


That would be about right. We are lazy and like to chop the ends off words. Lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Apr 27, 2016)

Check em out dude. This is some cool shit



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153597140848946


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Consider a second hole in each grow bucket, this time right at the maximum allowable height of water. This would also drain to the control bucket and would serve as an emergency secondary. Since it's not ordinarily in use, roots won't be pulled into it.
> 
> The line from this upper hole could drop right down to the normal return line, connected with a T fitting. Keep the fitting far enough downstream that roots traveling down the normal drain hole won't clog it, too.


The overflow fitting has saved my ass a few times and also alerts me to any blockages. All my res's have one .


----------



## joeyfatbud (Apr 28, 2016)

tystikk said:


> Hmmm. No one wants to know anything about water chilling, or growing three times as much product in a given space, yet still using less than half the power?


I need your help


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 28, 2016)

joeyfatbud said:


> I need your help


How may I be of assistance?


----------



## joeyfatbud (Apr 28, 2016)

I am starting a grow in maine. It is going to be vertical grow with two 1000w hps in center of 12 plant circle. And 6 mobile 24watt LED lights on the outside rotating plants with LED... i plan on having a fan facing upward, in the center on milk crate, and on ceiling, above the lights will have wind guards pushing air to 4 wall fans. I will run one dehumidfier if need be, n have one co2 tank running on a timer. Im going super hydro soil in 10 gallon buckets. Im going there in ten days. And renting with my priorioty being the room. Does this sound legit?


----------



## joeyfatbud (Apr 28, 2016)

joeyfatbud said:


> I am starting a grow in maine. It is going to be vertical grow with two 1000w hps in center of 12 plant circle. And 6 mobile 24watt LED lights on the outside rotating plants with LED... i plan on having a fan facing upward, in the center on milk crate, and on ceiling, above the lights will have wind guards pushing air to 4 wall fans. I will run one dehumidfier if need be, n have one co2 tank running on a timer. Im going super hydro soil in 10 gallon buckets. Im going there in ten days. And renting with my priorioty being the room. Does this sound legit?


I mean do you think i can pull this off. And the room. How big for most yield with this design


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 28, 2016)

joeyfatbud said:


> I mean do you think i can pull this off. And the room. How big for most yield with this design


My initial concern is with distances between light sources and the canopy. 

You want the plants between 18" - 30" from a hanging bare thouie. Closer and you'll get excess shading, bleaching and burning, further is too dim.

Same issue with the LED panels; there's going to be an effective range. It's likely to be rather different than the HID lighting, which is why I see relatively few successful grows that use both types simultaneously. 

Sketch this out again, on graph paper, to scale so you can check your distances.


----------



## joeyfatbud (Apr 28, 2016)

I want to cost effectively grow 12 plants in soil. I want 15 lbs every harvest. This isnt impossible, i just need direction. I will rent based on design i need. What you recomommend?


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 28, 2016)

joeyfatbud said:


> I want to cost effectively grow 12 plants in soil. I want 15 lbs every harvest. This isnt impossible, i just need direction. I will rent based on design i need. What you recomommend?


Your going to need alot more light.


----------



## joeyfatbud (Apr 28, 2016)

Thinking this...
One Veg room at 8 week veg cycle. 12 plants vegging. Groups of six and 4 weeks apart.

Then have two flowering rooms. With six plants each. And have 8 week harvests but those groups of six plants (2 flower rooms) will also be 4 weeks apart

Use three 1k lights in each flower room.

I will be going vertical. I am bare light hanging the 1k lights.[/QUOTE]


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 28, 2016)

@joeyfatbud you'll be able to get two or three lamps in a silo, which will get you four plants up to 1.5#, in my experience.

@redi jedi is very right about needing more light.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 28, 2016)

In other news, my chiller is finally on a truck and headed my way! The delay is not the fault of the manufacturer at all; they've been plagued first with floods, then with trucking companies that cherry pick their loads in the area, mine isn't as profitable as a full truck load. 

It's a good thing the weather is cold here this week, hope it gets here in time for the big warmup lol


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 28, 2016)

Looked at the weather forecast for tomorrow and it seems like I'm in the bullseye for coldest spot in the country. 

Good weather for waiting on a chiller, lol


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 28, 2016)

@borbor Hey buddy, long time no see! You staying warm tonight, brother?


----------



## borbor (Apr 28, 2016)

@ttystikk 
Got a fire in the fireplace, and the clear on my dabber! Doin' well on this end, these chilly days are receiving a warm welcome in an uninsulated garage.
On a related note, after this crop I'm hanging up the trimmers til I find a more suitable place, asap!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 28, 2016)

borbor said:


> @ttystikk
> Got a fire in the fireplace, and the clear on my dabber! Doin' well on this end, these chilly days are receiving a warm welcome in an uninsulated garage.
> On a related note, after this crop I'm hanging up the trimmers til I find a more suitable place, asap!


I'm hearing ya loud and clear on all fronts- cold and otherwise. I might even have a line on helping you find a suitable place. Hit me up this weekend sometime?


----------



## m4s73r (Apr 29, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> @ttystikk ever have you ever thought about doing some ~25 gallon no till pots in your setup? Once you got your medium like you wanted you would only need a top drip of agua. Just curious


Hey thats what I do. sorta, 4 20 gallon no-tills. Check out link in my sig.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 29, 2016)

Hey ttystikk, quick question. I'm about to plant my seedlings getting ready for my first dwc, I figure you hand water until the roots hit the water. Do you need to add nutes right from the get go, or just give the seedling plain water for the first week? 

If you have a rough ppm guide for dwc I'd be most appreciative If you shared it


----------



## pinner420 (Apr 29, 2016)




----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 30, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> View attachment 3669532


So converted on my ec meter that would be roughly 300-500ppm. Wouldn't this be too high for a seedling?


----------



## pinner420 (Apr 30, 2016)

300 is fine..


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 30, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> 300 is fine..


Cheers. I'll start at 300 and work my way up.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2016)

I prefer EC, it's less confusing because not all ppm scales are the same.

I don't start from seeds, I'm clone only. 

I start them in rock wool cubes or the aerocloner, then transplant to pots in an ebb n flood table.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Apr 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I prefer EC, it's less confusing because not all ppm scales are the same.
> 
> I don't start from seeds, I'm clone only.
> 
> I start them in rock wool cubes or the aerocloner, then transplant to pots in an ebb n flood table.


Cheers, I normally clone as well. But I'm ditching what I have and trying the fast version of green poison. I'm going to throw up a grow journal soon.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 30, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers, I normally clone as well. But I'm ditching what I have and trying the fast version of green poison. I'm going to throw up a grow journal soon.


I start seedlings at around .3 EC


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2016)

So I've had the chance to sample a little from the first batch run under COB, and...

Dayum. Super strong flavors, and I haven't been this stoned from just two hits in- I'm too baked to remember how long.

Nugs are greasy, dense and hard. Foxtailing vanished. Stupid frosty. If I didn't know that COB LED has no UV component, I'd bet big money this was grown with it.

It's gonna make plenty of weight, even if my dumb ass did manage to stunt it early. Record yields should be just a matter of keeping it between the lines through the finish going forward.

The light is powerful, but forgiving. That says all the right things about the technology.

The biggest problem during the run?

Would you believe I ran them too COLD?

This is Hillbilly Hobby (pre '98 Bubba Kush x Moonshine Haze), coming down today;
 
@.Pinworm. this penis is for you. Welcome back.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2016)

And in other news, I just got my new iPonic 624 home and I'm unboxing it now!


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> And in other news, I just got my new iPonic 624 home and I'm unboxing it now!


Nice! That thing is way to cool!!! And very nice grow tty!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Nice! That thing is way to cool!!! And very nice grow tty!


Yet another in a long line of equipment that's smarter than I am, lol


----------



## Growmau5 (Apr 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yet another in a long line of equipment that's smarter than I am, lol


does it come with all the "stuff needed" to fully control your room, or do they nickel and dime you for accessories after purchasing the main unit?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2016)

Growmau5 said:


> does it come with all the "stuff needed" to fully control your room, or do they nickel and dime you for accessories after purchasing the main unit?


The unit itself is limited to [email protected], so if you need to run high power equipment directly, you'll need some relays. Other than that, it sure seems complete to me; it even came with the communication module that was originally optional. Two sensors for two spaces. Obvi, I gotta have WiFi for it to use it. It has two USB ports inside, I bet one could be for data logging and the other is advertised as being where you plug your own control schedule in for it to run. 

I'll know more after I read thru the manual, but so far I've heard nothing but good things about the unit and it certainly appears to be professionally thought out, manufactured and assembled inside and out. 

I don't even want to think about how much time I'm saving by not having to build my own arduino based setup, that alone is worth the up front cost!


----------



## Growmau5 (Apr 30, 2016)

Well, it looks like an incredibly elegant product. Excited to see your experience with it. Thx


----------



## ttystikk (May 1, 2016)

Growmau5 said:


> Well, it looks like an incredibly elegant product. Excited to see your experience with it. Thx


I appreciate your interest. The owner of the chain of shops I bought this from was in today, and he told me that a local commercial facility had purchased over a dozen of them a few months ago and they're very happy with the unit's performance. I'm sure he's telling the truth; I know of someone else who's seen the facility recently and they said the same thing.


----------



## ttystikk (May 1, 2016)

My birthday is coming up, so my friends made me a cake; 

 

It tasted funny at first, but it's better now after I got really high and got the munchies.


----------



## ttystikk (May 1, 2016)

Okay, every Coloradan knows that if it's snowing here and not in Wyoming, the Second Coming is nigh.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My birthday is coming up, so my friends made me a cake;
> 
> View attachment 3670427
> 
> It tasted funny at first, but it's better now after I got really high and got the munchies.


Damnit man, need to use some of my air miles to get some of dat ! Happy early Birthday my brother!!!


----------



## GroErr (May 1, 2016)

Hey happy b-day coming @ttystikk, that looks nasty to eat but cool looking cake!


----------



## ttystikk (May 1, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Hey happy b-day coming @ttystikk, that looks nasty to eat but cool looking cake!


It was just fun, because it held its shape after bedding down overnight.

Blue Cheese, for those who might be curious.


----------



## HydroRed (May 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It was just fun, because it held its shape after bedding down overnight.
> 
> Blue Cheese, for those who might be curious.


Mmmm...Cheesecake. 
First time dropping in on the vertical thread. Nice spot ya got here. 
How'd them COB's treat you this time around?


----------



## ttystikk (May 1, 2016)

HydroRed said:


> Mmmm...Cheesecake.
> First time dropping in on the vertical thread. Nice spot ya got here.
> How'd them COB's treat you this time around?


The unanimous decision is that the nug they're making is coma inducing.


----------



## HydroRed (May 2, 2016)

Nice....I was really hoping to hear something along those lines.


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2016)

HydroRed said:


> Nice....I was really hoping to hear something along those lines.


Everything that's come out has been dense, sticky and stinky asf. Everything we've had a chance to try so far has been best ever of the given pheno... same phenos I've been running here for years, so it's definitely the new lighting.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It was just fun, because it held its shape after bedding down overnight.
> 
> Blue Cheese, for those who might be curious.


I love that Blue Cheese, tasty smoke. I really dig the high, works for my spinal issues. Gives me munchies like no other, though.
Happy Birthday in advance, I will forget when the day actually arrives.


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I love that Blue Cheese, tasty smoke. I really dig the high, works for my spinal issues. Gives me munchies like no other, though.
> Happy Birthday in advance, I will forget when the day actually arrives.


I'm stretching the festivities out, too; I'm having a bash weekend after next at a friend's brew pub, another bestie, DJ Matthew Kays, is spinning original deep house music, catered eats, multiple people are contributing food...


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm stretching the festivities out, too; I'm having a bash weekend after next at a friend's brew pub, another bestie, DJ Matthew Kays, is spinning original deep house music, catered eats, multiple people are contributing food...


Damn, man, sounds like I better come out there for that. It might happen...


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm stretching the festivities out, too; I'm having a bash weekend after next at a friend's brew pub, another bestie, DJ Matthew Kays, is spinning original deep house music, catered eats, multiple people are contributing food...


Sounds like a good time


----------



## rocknratm (May 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Everything that's come out has been dense, sticky and stinky asf. Everything we've had a chance to try so far has been best ever of the given pheno... same phenos I've been running here for years, so it's definitely the new lighting.


I had the same experience my 1st run with cob. Terps really came out much stronger in phenos Id run under hid before.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 2, 2016)

rocknratm said:


> I had the same experience my 1st run with cob. Terps really came out much stronger in phenos Id run under hid before.


I need to convert ASAP. This is killing me now. I love the flavors. And aromas. All the flavors! Aromas! Double Rainbow! Woah! ahem.


----------



## Bubblegum31 (May 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My birthday is coming up, so my friends made me a cake;
> 
> View attachment 3670427
> 
> It tasted funny at first, but it's better now after I got really high and got the munchies.


Happy BD in advance my man..


----------



## doniawon (May 2, 2016)

Happy bluntday ty


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2016)

doniawon said:


> Happy bluntday ty


Thank you, Sir.


----------



## ttystikk (May 3, 2016)

So the chiller in my driveway is 4x4... by over 6 feet tall. It's a monster! Of course it sits on its tanks, but it's still a very imposing piece of machinery. I finally feel like I got my money's worth.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> So the chiller in my driveway is 4x4... by over 6 feet tall. It's a monster! Of course it sits on its tanks, but it's still a very imposing piece of machinery. I finally feel like I got my money's worth.


Sure thats a chiller or a walkin freezer?


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 3, 2016)

Each time I see that cake I want two things. 

1 that cake. 
2 in and out in nz

Happy birthday bro!!


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Each time I see that cake I want two things.
> 
> 1 that cake.
> 2 in and out in nz
> ...


1. Come n get yourself some!
2. In n Out is over rated; once you've had a Big Al's 60/40 beef n bacon burger with truffle fries and a locally made microbrew, nothing else remains on the radar.


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Sure thats a chiller or a walkin freezer?


Right? 

Sung to Mary Poppins; 

'A few Tons of Chillking helps the power bills go down!'

They sell similar units, without the hot gas recovery section, to Dairy Queen restaurants across the country. Cooling all the freezers and ice cream makers saves the average store some 30% and everything works better.


----------



## RM3 (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 1. Come n get yourself some!
> 2. In n Out is over rated; once you've had a Big Al's 60/40 beef n bacon burger with truffle fries and a locally made microbrew, nothing else remains on the radar.


Ok, so gotta have one of these when I come up


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 4, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Ok, so gotta have one of these when I come up


What he said!
@ttystikk - I hope those fries are cooked in pure duck fat. 
If y'all haven't tried that, you should. With a side of butter-poached lobster


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Right?
> 
> Sung to Mary Poppins;
> 
> ...


Sounds pretty badass. I could surely go for one of those Big Al burgers right now


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Ok, so gotta have one of these when I come up


That's a plan, for sure!


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

I don't care who you are, you aren't eating THIS well this morning;


Baked bacon and hand made blueberry scones fresh from the oven, drizzled generously with real lemon icing.

To DIE for.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 4, 2016)

well I got the best pork in the world, and plenty of it here, but damn those blueberry scones man!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mohican (May 4, 2016)

Made my day! Now Mrs Mo wants scones for Mother's day!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't care who you are, you aren't eating THIS well this morning;
> View attachment 3673259
> 
> Baked bacon and hand made blueberry scones fresh from the oven, drizzled generously with real lemon icing.
> ...


Those scones are looking top notch.


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 1. Come n get yourself some!
> 2. In n Out is over rated; once you've had a Big Al's 60/40 beef n bacon burger with truffle fries and a locally made microbrew, nothing else remains on the radar.


Stop it!!


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 4, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> What he said!
> @ttystikk - I hope those fries are cooked in pure duck fat.
> If y'all haven't tried that, you should. With a side of butter-poached lobster


Duck fat fries. I'm going to a place that does awesome ones today!!


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Made my day! Now Mrs Mo wants scones for Mother's day!


Tyler Florence's recipe, find it on the Internet. They're not even hard to make.


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Those scones are looking top notch.


The only thing they do better than look is satisfy. Hubba hubba.


----------



## SomeGuy (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Tyler Florence's recipe, find it on the Internet. They're not even hard to make.


Thanks. Was gonna ask about a recipe. Mmmm. Bacon. Think we are going to Oceanside for moms day so probably no baking that morning.... Well... I'll be baked. Lol


----------



## Mohican (May 4, 2016)

I think we will make meatballs for dinner too! Secret is using breakfast sausage pork in the meat mix. Brown in the cast iron skillet and then slow cook in the marinara sauce.

Harvest Day:





Cheers,
Mo


----------



## redi jedi (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> So the chiller in my driveway is 4x4... by over 6 feet tall. It's a monster! Of course it sits on its tanks, but it's still a very imposing piece of machinery. I finally feel like I got my money's worth.


So how ya gonna get that beast where she needs to be?


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 4, 2016)

Mohican said:


> I think we will make meatballs for dinner too! Secret is using breakfast sausage pork in the meat mix. Brown in the cast iron skillet and then slow cook in the marinara sauce.
> 
> Harvest Day:
> 
> ...


The bud on the left, and in the first pic looks equally delicious and hard to trim, comparatively. If your trimming is automated, fine, but by hand that's more gnarly than I'm used to.


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> So how ya gonna get that beast where she needs to be?


Dolly and muscle. 4-5 guys, the old fashioned way. It only has to go 60' on level ground. Unscrew a fence panel and right in place.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dolly and muscle. 4-5 guys, the old fashioned way. It only has to go 60' on level ground. Unscrew a fence panel and right in place.


"Dolly and Muscle" - great band name. Send me 10%.


----------



## redi jedi (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dolly and muscle. 4-5 guys, the old fashioned way. It only has to go 60' on level ground. Unscrew a fence panel and right in place.


I'm familiar with these ways...I guess its not as heavy as I imagined.


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> I'm familiar with these ways...I guess its not as heavy as I imagined.


It's in a crate, they said 800lb, but I bet it's not more than 500.


----------



## redi jedi (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's in a crate, they said 800lb, but I bet it's not more than 500.


Its normal to overestimate a bit for safety, but Its probably close to 800...anyways, nothing a case of beer (or two) cant handle


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Its normal to overestimate a bit for safety, but Its probably close to 800...anyways, nothing a case of beer (or two) cant handle


The unit on top is 95% hollow, like any other outdoor AC compressor section. The box it sits on consists of two insulated tanks with 1hp pumps inside.


----------



## Mohican (May 4, 2016)

The one on the left was actually easier to trim!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 5, 2016)

Mohican said:


> The one on the left was actually easier to trim!


Color me surprised! I guess I have had some that looked worse than they turned out to be, now that I think of it. I don't love trimming to start with, I guess.


----------



## pop22 (May 5, 2016)




----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2016)

Had a lovely visit with a bunch of forum people yesterday, including but not limited to @RM3 @AlGore @Dr.D81 and others whom I can't remember how to spell your handle well enough to find it lol

We arrived before noon and proceeded to hot box the entire house all day! Amazing flavors from everyone and I swear I'm still stoned from all the joints a day later!

Lots of connections made, great conversations had, great weed smoked and good times enjoyed all around!

Thanks for the hospitality, Riddle!

Cuz this is what it's all about, right here.


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Had a lovely visit with a bunch of forum people yesterday, including but not limited to @RM3 @AlGore @Dr.D81 and others whom I can't remember how to spell your handle well enough to find it lol
> 
> We arrived before noon and proceeded to hot box the entire house all day! Amazing flavors from everyone and I swear I'm still stoned from all the joints a day later!
> 
> ...


And we'll do it again ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, soon


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> And we'll do it again ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, soon


I'll make sure to contribute next time!


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'll make sure to contribute next time!


Hell, You were there smoking doobies, contribution roi (already) . just kidding


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Hell, You were there smoking doobies, contribution roi (already) . just kidding


I didn't because, well, coals to Newcastle? 

But that shouldn't be an excuse.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I didn't because, well, coals to Newcastle?
> 
> But that shouldn't be an excuse.


Not sure what sort of code that is, lmao


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Not sure what sort of code that is, lmao


It's a historical reference; in the early days of the Industrial Revolution, the British used coal to fire boilers for steam powered machines, eventually including steam trains. They got their coal from Newcastle, where it was so plentiful as to be at the surface, no digging needed. 

So why take coal TO Newcastle?


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's a historical reference; in the early days of the Industrial Revolution, the British used coal to fire boilers for steam powered machines, eventually including steam trains. They got their coal from Newcastle, where it was so plentiful as to be at the surface, no digging needed.
> 
> So why take coal TO Newcastle?


I understand kimosabe. Thanks for the history lesson


----------



## HydroRed (May 5, 2016)

Like bringing sand to the beach haha


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 5, 2016)

HydroRed said:


> Like bringing sand to the beach haha


Exactly what popped in my head when I read @ttystikk's post


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I didn't because, well, coals to Newcastle?


I'd say it's more like you had been there before and had a clue as to what to expect 

Folks get fucking high as fuck at these gatherings


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I'd say it's more like you had been there before and had a clue as to what to expect
> 
> Folks get fucking high as fuck at these gatherings


I'm ready  ha ha ha


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 6, 2016)

Fuck I wish I lived in Colorado!! Its seriously the only place id be if I moved to the states. I love the cold/ mountain's and climbing.

Me and the wife will come one day for a cannabis cup  would love to catch up with some folk.


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 6, 2016)

Sorry also the legislation........


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 6, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Fuck I wish I lived in Colorado!! Its seriously the only place id be if I moved to the states. I love the cold/ mountain's and climbing.
> 
> Me and the wife will come one day for a cannabis cup  would love to catch up with some folk.


I'm teetering on the edge of making this move. Six months or so and I'm on my way, methinks.


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 6, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I'm teetering on the edge of making this move. Six months or so and I'm on my way, methinks.


Are you already based in the us or another kiwi


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 6, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Are you already based in the us or another kiwi


USA, I get up early. I'm in a slightly less friendly jurisdiction, I'm afraid. Sometimes very afraid.
I want to fly fish NZ someday, very much. I've been trying to justify it, but I think Alaska is first. Your country is nothing to sneeze at for wilderness lovers, sorry about the laws, they are screwy here too.


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 6, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> USA, I get up early. I'm in a slightly less friendly jurisdiction, I'm afraid. Sometimes very afraid.
> I want to fly fish NZ someday, very much. I've been trying to justify it, but I think Alaska is first.


Awesome. I have done alot of fly fishing. Tongariro river is my stomping grounds.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> USA, I get up early. I'm in a slightly less friendly jurisdiction, I'm afraid. Sometimes very afraid.
> I want to fly fish NZ someday, very much. I've been trying to justify it, but I think Alaska is first. Your country is nothing to sneeze at for wilderness lovers, sorry about the laws, they are screwy here too.


Alaska is awesome so is CO. Imagine NZ is too but yeah laws are fucked. Think I'll just stay right here in Nam, laws no bother, and the pace is lovely


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> USA, I get up early. I'm in a slightly less friendly jurisdiction, I'm afraid. Sometimes very afraid.
> I want to fly fish NZ someday, very much. I've been trying to justify it, but I think Alaska is first. Your country is nothing to sneeze at for wilderness lovers, sorry about the laws, they are screwy here too.


Micheal Huntherz I grew up & lived in Louisiana before I bounced overseas so I know about those unfriendly jurisdictions. Fucking mental. Get out of those places while you can


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 6, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Alaska is awesome so is CO. Imagine NZ is too but yeah laws are fucked. Think I'll just stay right here in Nam, laws no bother, and the pace is lovely


Yeah the law is fucked here, that's why I'm going hydro. Less plants, slap on the hand. No one really cares about weed here, but there is a crazy shortage going on. You'd make good money flying good dab in.


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I'd say it's more like you had been there before and had a clue as to what to expect
> 
> Folks get fucking high as fuck at these gatherings


One of the few times using fucking twice in the same sentence is descriptive.

The only downside for me is the two day recovery time for my lungs after sitting in that smoke filled living room all afternoon. As I get older, stuff like that really plays hell with my asthma.

But, what are inhalers for? Lol


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> One of the few times using fucking twice in the same sentence is descriptive.
> 
> The only downside for me is the two day recovery time for my lungs after sitting in that smoke filled living room all afternoon. As I get older, stuff like that really plays hell with my asthma.
> 
> But, what are inhalers for? Lol


Yeah it might be a mistake to vent that smoke outside LOL

Hey you need to check your alerts, a buddy of yours and I had a convo this morning


----------



## pop22 (May 6, 2016)

and that's why i've spent hundreds of dollars testing to find the right vaporizer! what a difference vaping makes in so many ways! First you can REALLY taste the amazing flavors in your weed. Second, its so much less harsh, unless you get a huge rip! I've tried all the best portables and the DaVinci and DaVinci ascent win for great vapor production and the Ascent especially for great taste.

For a desktop, I use a Arizer Extreme Q. It works very well and won't require an arm and a ball to buy like the Volcano!

I make it a habit to smoke at least one joint from every harvest/strain I grow as I do still enjoy an occassional joint or bowl. But the vaporizer rules!



ttystikk said:


> One of the few times using fucking twice in the same sentence is descriptive.
> 
> 
> The only downside for me is the two day recovery time for my lungs after sitting in that smoke filled living room all afternoon. As I get older, stuff like that really plays hell with my asthma.
> ...


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Yeah it might be a mistake to vent that smoke outside LOL
> 
> Hey you need to check your alerts, a buddy of yours and I had a convo this morning


The worst of it for me was mixing cigarettes in with it. NOT hating, just waking up to the reality of older lungs and asthma. We'll figure something out, cuz I enjoy our visits far too much to give them up!


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

pop22 said:


> and that's why i've spent hundreds of dollars testing to find the right vaporizer! what a difference vaping makes in so many ways! First you can REALLY taste the amazing flavors in your weed. Second, its so much less harsh, unless you get a huge rip! I've tried all the best portables and the DaVinci and DaVinci ascent win for great vapor production and the Ascent especially for great taste.
> 
> For a desktop, I use a Arizer Extreme Q. It works very well and won't require an arm and a ball to buy like the Volcano!
> 
> I make it a habit to smoke at least one joint from every harvest/strain I grow as I do still enjoy an occassional joint or bowl. But the vaporizer rules!


You've inspired me to do some homework!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 6, 2016)

Quick question for you guys:


----------



## Mohican (May 6, 2016)

Are real estate prices going up because of the migration to a 420-friendly state?


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Are real estate prices going up because of the migration to a 420-friendly state?


They sure are LOL


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

pop22 said:


> and that's why i've spent hundreds of dollars testing to find the right vaporizer! what a difference vaping makes in so many ways! First you can REALLY taste the amazing flavors in your weed. Second, its so much less harsh, unless you get a huge rip! I've tried all the best portables and the DaVinci and DaVinci ascent win for great vapor production and the Ascent especially for great taste.
> 
> For a desktop, I use a Arizer Extreme Q. It works very well and won't require an arm and a ball to buy like the Volcano!
> 
> I make it a habit to smoke at least one joint from every harvest/strain I grow as I do still enjoy an occassional joint or bowl. But the vaporizer rules!


Have a Pax2 and a SSV. They both work great. SSV has been going strong for last 2 yrs. as my home unit. I wouldnt purchase another P2 just due to their customer service but the flavor is great


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The worst of it for me was mixing cigarettes in with it. NOT hating, just waking up to the reality of older lungs and asthma. We'll figure something out, cuz I enjoy our visits far too much to give them up!


Get yourself a vaporizer dude, best purchases I ever made from smoking......


----------



## pop22 (May 6, 2016)

And they don't waste weed!
But the flavors alone make it worth it to have one! I think most people talking about "flavors" in their smoke are talking out their asses, but with a vape, its a different world!


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

pop22 said:


> And they don't waste weed!
> But the flavors alone make it worth it to have one! I think most people talking about "flavors" in their smoke are talking out their asses, but with a vape, its a different world!


They dont waste for sure, but I surely dont use less than when I did when I did roll spliffs 24-7, 8 grams a day then, 8 now


----------



## pop22 (May 6, 2016)

After a 40 year lay off, I'm still building my tolerance........lol!


----------



## PKHydro (May 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Had a lovely visit with a bunch of forum people yesterday, including but not limited to @RM3 @AlGore @Dr.D81 and others whom I can't remember how to spell your handle well enough to find it lol
> 
> We arrived before noon and proceeded to hot box the entire house all day! Amazing flavors from everyone and I swear I'm still stoned from all the joints a day later!
> 
> ...



This is awesome. Wish I lived close to a bunch of good guys from the forum like that. Getting to shoot the shit and sample everyone's best sounds like a good time!

@ttystikk are we going to get to see some pictures of this chiller that your running, my curiosity is peaked!


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You've inspired me to do some homework!


I don't rate the volcano anymore. I used to until I got my vapor rise. Hands down best vape around. I just fill bags.


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Are real estate prices going up because of the migration to a 420-friendly state?


Oooooohhhhh boy, how does a 40% increase in the last 3 years grab ya?


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> This is awesome. Wish I lived close to a bunch of good guys from the forum like that. Getting to shoot the shit and sample everyone's best sounds like a good time!
> 
> @ttystikk are we going to get to see some pictures of this chiller that your running, my curiosity is peaked!


Your wish is my command; 
 

It's 42" square by 78" tall. Its job is to make hot and cold running water- for the next 20 years.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Your wish is my command;
> View attachment 3675188
> 
> It's 42" square by 78" tall. Its job is to make hot and cold running water- for the next 20 years.


fuck yeah


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 6, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> fuck yeah


Fuck yeah fuck yeah


----------



## m4s73r (May 6, 2016)

Ewww mixing tobacco and cannabis. WtF. someone is fired. oh and I also vape. I find it more enjoyable then burning flowers.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> Ewww mixing tobacco and cannabis. WtF. someone is fired. oh and I also vape. I find it more enjoyable then burning flowers.


Yeah even though I smoked that shit for 15 years I never did like mixing the 2. Kills the taste I love so much. Vaping is awesome, you really taste your stuff that way


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> Ewww mixing tobacco and cannabis. WtF. someone is fired. oh and I also vape. I find it more enjoyable then burning flowers.


Not my house, I'm the guest and I know what I'm getting into. Not @RM3's fault I have asthma, so I just take a break when I need to. 

Nobody was smoking any spliffs, that's for damned sure! We've allllllll got way too much respect for the plant for that! 

I just got an enail, and that's a very tasty way to do a dab of shatter or rosin.


----------



## SomeGuy (May 7, 2016)

Hey ty. I'm asthmatic too. I can't even do the cigs in same room... Lol. I use a Vape but have found a joint (after the first few hits lighting it) to almost completely relieve the tightness in the chest/lungs. Also with the vape I have to run bags I can still see through cuz if they are to thick it just brings on the attack. 

Definitely no one else's fault/problem that I'm asthmatic. I just have to watch out for me. Lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 7, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Hey ty. I'm asthmatic too. I can't even do the cigs in same room... Lol. I use a Vape but have found a joint (after the first few hits lighting it) to almost completely relieve the tightness in the chest/lungs. Also with the vape I have to run bags I can still see through cuz if they are to thick it just brings on the attack.
> 
> Definitely no one else's fault/problem that I'm asthmatic. I just have to watch out for me. Lol


You tried the whip style vapes like the ssv where you dont fill a bag? Its live. Low temps are key


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (May 7, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Hey ty. I'm asthmatic too. I can't even do the cigs in same room... Lol. I use a Vape but have found a joint (after the first few hits lighting it) to almost completely relieve the tightness in the chest/lungs. Also with the vape I have to run bags I can still see through cuz if they are to thick it just brings on the attack.
> 
> Definitely no one else's fault/problem that I'm asthmatic. I just have to watch out for me. Lol


My granddaddy, who died in 1938, used to burn dope in a smudge pot for his asthma. He would just lean over the pot and breath in the smoke, according to Mamma. At today's prices, that would be costly medicine.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 7, 2016)

Yes it would though todays prices purely based on being illegal. Thats going to change drastically soon enough imo and it needs to


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (May 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yes it would though todays prices purely based on being illegal. Thats going to change drastically soon enough imo and it needs to


But I'm just getting back into growing after 11 years off. I need to work on my retirement fund before prices get too cheap. jj. I hate selling any of my weed. This time around, no one knows I'm growing, so I won't have to sell any to my buddies like I used to.

And prices are already pretty cheap here. I've got two decent ounces for $130 and $140.


----------



## redi jedi (May 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Your wish is my command;
> View attachment 3675188
> 
> It's 42" square by 78" tall. Its job is to make hot and cold running water- for the next 20 years.


This must be a union gig...still sitting in the driveway. Lol..pitter patter time to get at er!


----------



## ttystikk (May 7, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> This must be a union gig...still sitting in the driveway. Lol..pitter patter time to get at er!


It's currently raining like a motherfucker, so installation today was scrubbed. 

Slave driver.


----------



## ttystikk (May 8, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yes it would though todays prices purely based on being illegal. Thats going to change drastically soon enough imo and it needs to


I consider building systems to grow ever more product at ever lower price points with ever higher quality to be my sacred mission in life. I believe I'm making progress.


----------



## m4s73r (May 8, 2016)

That chill king is redonkulous. 


ttystikk said:


> I consider building systems to grow ever more product at ever lower price points with ever higher quality to be my sacred mission in life. I believe I'm making progress.


Sacred mission in life huh? Lol. So im on the other side of the fence. How can i grow as much weed as possible as lazily as possible? Organic soil. seriously this as been the most stress free grow ever. water only. top dress with amendments, castings, and mulch. Im pretty stoked to see you get into coco. I never did cause you have to dispose of it after every grow. You going to mulch that or anything?


----------



## ttystikk (May 8, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> That chill king is redonkulous.
> 
> Sacred mission in life huh? Lol. So im on the other side of the fence. How can i grow as much weed as possible as lazily as possible? Organic soil. seriously this as been the most stress free grow ever. water only. top dress with amendments, castings, and mulch. Im pretty stoked to see you get into coco. I never did cause you have to dispose of it after every grow. You going to mulch that or anything?


Not sure yet.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I consider building systems to grow ever more product at ever lower price points with ever higher quality to be my sacred mission in life. I believe I'm making progress.


Yes you are


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 8, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> That chill king is redonkulous.
> 
> Sacred mission in life huh? Lol. So im on the other side of the fence. How can i grow as much weed as possible as lazily as possible? Organic soil. seriously this as been the most stress free grow ever. water only. top dress with amendments, castings, and mulch. Im pretty stoked to see you get into coco. I never did cause you have to dispose of it after every grow. You going to mulch that or anything?


I'm with you @m4s73r. My roof is full of lazy no tills  including my vegetable garden. Tent will be the same with 20 gallon no till pots


----------



## SomeGuy (May 8, 2016)

FYI. I'm liking the organic sips. I do remix and amend my soil for each round but it is alive. I bet no till in a SIP would work well. And I mean... Talk about lazy... Lol. 

I use coco in my soil mix sometimes. Lol. Coco is great but for me allnof it has to be recyclable for each grow


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 8, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> FYI. I'm liking the organic sips. I do remix and amend my soil for each round but it is alive. I bet no till in a SIP would work well. And I mean... Talk about lazy... Lol.
> 
> I use coco in my soil mix sometimes. Lol. Coco is great but for me allnof it has to be recyclable for each grow


I think some of the PFA (Probi Farmers Alliance) guys are doing no tills with SIP's? Gonna have to look at that


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 8, 2016)

I attempted to use coco for 1 cycle and I couldnt get with it. I did however utilize that same coco distributed throughout some of my veggie pots mixed with soil


----------



## m4s73r (May 9, 2016)

I have sip trays under my 20 gallon pots. They work well. but I still use a sprayer system to water them from the top.


----------



## ttystikk (May 9, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I attempted to use coco for 1 cycle and I couldnt get with it. I did however utilize that same coco distributed throughout some of my veggie pots mixed with soil





m4s73r said:


> I have sip trays under my 20 gallon pots. They work well. but I still use a sprayer system to water them from the top.


Great discussion, guys! This is definitely helping inform my choices.


----------



## ttystikk (May 9, 2016)

@Revolution Micro shipped my ballast today! 

I'm gonna be sooooooooo stoked to see how much brighter it makes an 860W CDM Allstart, even while using slightly less watts!


----------



## pop22 (May 9, 2016)

Why throw it out??? I wash mine. I fill a 5 gallon paint strainer bag 2/3 full and dunk it in a bucket of water. I them let the water run into the bucket with the bag in it for up to 5 minutes. It flushes out the nutes AND the coco thats broken down. coco should last 3-4 grows, then wash it and use it in your soil instead of peat!

All my organic soil uses coco instead of peat. I also stopped using perlite.



m4s73r said:


> That chill king is redonkulous.
> 
> Sacred mission in life huh? Lol. So im on the other side of the fence. How can i grow as much weed as possible as lazily as possible? Organic soil. seriously this as been the most stress free grow ever. water only. top dress with amendments, castings, and mulch. Im pretty stoked to see you get into coco. I never did cause you have to dispose of it after every grow. You going to mulch that or anything?


----------



## ttystikk (May 9, 2016)

m4s73r said:


> Sacred mission in life huh? Lol.


Never laugh at a man's dreams, brother. 

Sharing them takes the courage to believe in the possibility of making them real- and that I'm willing to spend some of my limited time on this earth working at it.


----------



## m4s73r (May 9, 2016)

Not laughing at the dream, laughing at the description of said dream.


----------



## Mohican (May 9, 2016)

Had a great Mother's Day!

Thanks for the inspiration:







Cheers,
Mo


----------



## ttystikk (May 9, 2016)

I just had a bunch of friends over for a great big throwdown of "from scratch" buttermilk fried chicken & waffles, BACON MAPLE SYRUP, mimosas, two kinds of gourmet coffee and a big phattie of Hillbilly Hobby!

Nothing says 'Happy Birthday!' quite like a meal that could, all by itself, cause both diabetes and angina! And boy, was it delicious! 

So the burning question of the afternoon is, shall I take some clones- or a nap?


----------



## Mohican (May 9, 2016)

NAP!!!


----------



## GroErr (May 9, 2016)

Happy B-Day @ttystikk, sounds like a blast. I vote go have a nap, the alternative if you do too much after that meal could be a heart attack - lol


----------



## Mohican (May 9, 2016)

Happy Birthday!


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (May 9, 2016)

Hey guys. Is the sip system like a rain gutter grow system? I do a red neck version of that for my tomatoes. Even grew a few dozen stalks of sweet corn in grow bags this year. I have a trench dug in the garden, lined in black plastic, with a water shutoff valve for a cow trough. The drain, for when it rains and overflows, runs through my pepper patch. Grows really big tomto plants. If Florida's voters will pass the Medical Herb Constitutional Amendment in November, we will see how it does with herb in it.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 9, 2016)

Larry {the} Gardener said:


> Hey guys. Is the sip system like a rain gutter grow system? I do a red neck version of that for my tomatoes. Even grew a few dozen stalks of sweet corn in grow bags this year. I have a trench dug in the garden, lined in black plastic, with a water shutoff valve for a cow trough. The drain, for when it rains and overflows, runs through my pepper patch. Grows really big tomto plants. If Florida's voters will pass the Medical Herb Constitutional Amendment in November, we will see how it does with herb in it.


 Something like this


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (May 9, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Something like this
> View attachment 3677619


Thanks.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 9, 2016)

You are welcome


----------



## ttystikk (May 9, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Happy Birthday!


Been there, done that...
This pic is our take on the same idea;


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 9, 2016)

Happy birthday.


----------



## ttystikk (May 9, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Happy birthday.


Thank you. It's a privilege to be given the chance to keep accumulating them.


----------



## redi jedi (May 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's currently raining like a motherfucker, so installation today was scrubbed.
> 
> Slave driver.


Ive been slackin too
 
I hope you dont mind me posting these in your thread...


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you. It's a privilege to be given the chance to keep accumulating them.


I've been remodeling a mobile home I'm going to rent out and then came home to work in the garden.

Its a privledge but I'm starting to feel mine.


----------



## ttystikk (May 9, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Ive been slackin too
> View attachment 3677771
> I hope you dont mind me posting these in your thread...
> View attachment 3677777


Shit looks tight, brother.


----------



## redi jedi (May 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Shit looks tight, brother.


Thank you broseph


----------



## dbkick (May 9, 2016)

Happy birthday ya old fucker........oh wait, ya young fucker.


----------



## SomeGuy (May 9, 2016)

Yeah happy bday man


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 9, 2016)

Ttystick, I have thought about using my other t5 with the one I got and turning them vertical in my cab. Over 700 watts in it. Lol. 

They have switches, I could use 4 bulbs on each light to spread it a little bit and use the same 432. Or six on each one for 648.

Maybe have it where the the 432 is on the whole cycle and have the extra bulbs come on for so many hours. Some far red to put them to sleep and they would get a regular day with high noon and dusk.


----------



## Fogdog (May 9, 2016)

Have a very happy birthday. That cake looked tasty.


----------



## ttystikk (May 10, 2016)

Fogdog said:


> Have a very happy birthday. That cake looked tasty.


It was made entirely out of 'blue cheese', from the very same blue moon it will send you to after a sample!


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It was made entirely out of 'blue cheese', from the very same blue moon it will send you to after a sample!


I used to like cheese. Not after the last cheese bomb I grew. I gave it away. I kept a little but I can't stand the stuff. It was horrible smelly. I needed a second filter to handle the smell.


----------



## brimck325 (May 10, 2016)

i wanna slice too!!!

happy b-day tty!


----------



## ttystikk (May 10, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I used to like cheese. Not after the last cheese bomb I grew. I gave it away. I kept a little but I can't stand the stuff. It was horrible smelly. I needed a second filter to handle the smell.


The blue in the cheese cross here makes it a lil easier to handle. 

What you describe has happened to me and yeah, there's no going back to the offending strain.


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2016)

The chiller hit the pad yesterday, making manifolds now.


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2016)

...and in a very respectable time, the @Revolution Micro has landed!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> ...and in a very respectable time, the @Revolution Micro has landed!


Ooh pretty!


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2016)

They sent a complete fixture, a thousand watt DE lamp, and the remote lighting controller! 

Now I gotta read the manual so I can figure out how to work this thing! 

First impressions: solid piece of kit you've got here, Greg.

The one piece ballast and fixture is well engineered and features lots of integrated cooling fins for the ballast and plenty of venting for the fixture. Looks to be a replaceable reflector. 

Starting from the right, there's the 120/240V outlet, an RJ12 comms port, the dimming button, and indicators for 115%, 100%, 75%, 60% and off. On top there are four eyelets for hanging the unit. 

A quick flip through the included instructions for the remote lighting controller shows that it can be connected with several units grouped into two zones, each timed independently- AND there are two included temperature probes for the over temp dimming and shut off feature! It also has sunrise and sunset settings and built in hot start delay with several options for duration for both. 

I'm sure I've missed something, so give me a chance to read things more carefully and I'll be back in a few days with a better workup of what she's capable of. 

I'm sooooooooo stoked!


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Ooh pretty!


You know what? It is! It's clear they've gone to some trouble to make an aesthetically pleasing piece of equipment with rolled edges, rounded sides, ABS ends and a chunky heat sink all integrated into the unit. 

If it works as well as it looks, Gavita is in trouble!


----------



## BobBitchen (May 11, 2016)

Belated happy b day tty

Will do a few turns in your honor tomorrow


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2016)

BobBitchen said:


> Belated happy b day tty
> 
> Will do a few turns in your honor tomorrow


Thank you, Sir.

Turns, lol... I usually just pointed the tips at the lodge and went straight down some of the steepest groomer blues I could find on my 'boards, doing 70mph plus on skis less than three feet long. YEAH!

Do this in my honor; find some trees, ski in there and burn one for me, the higher up the mountain, the better. Then, enjoy the view, maybe even take a pic before dropping in on your favorite terrain and pushing until your thighs burn.

You're inspiring me to get a Super Pass for next season, I gotta get some more time in before I get too old to enjoy it!


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 11, 2016)

Thai girls where?


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Thai girls where?


Pic attachment under the Rev Micro has arrived post. 

She's a smokin' hottie, for sure!


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 11, 2016)

Is that light built in thailand? Looks like a nice piece of gear. Did you win that you lucky fkr? Nice anyway


----------



## Revolution Micro (May 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> ...and in a very respectable time, the @Revolution Micro has landed!


Have fun with it! You literally got one of the first round ever made and before it was even available to buy!


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Is that light built in thailand? Looks like a nice piece of gear. Did you win that you lucky fkr? Nice anyway


That's where it came from, in just two days.

And I'm not kidding, it has to be the prettiest grow light I've ever seen.


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2016)

Revolution Micro said:


> Have fun with it! You literally got one of the first round ever made and before it was even available to buy!


I'm looking forward to putting it through its paces and then seeing how it runs an 860W Allstart. 

Thanks again, guys!


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's where it came from, in just two days.
> 
> And I'm not kidding, it has to be the prettiest grow light I've ever seen.


Need 2 of them next door in Vietnam


----------



## PKHydro (May 11, 2016)

More new equipment!? 

C'mon now man its just not fair anymore. I get excited when I buy a new pH pen. 

I hope all this gear starts paying off for you. Looking forward to seeing these monsters once everything's dialed in.


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> More new equipment!?
> 
> C'mon now man its just not fair anymore. I get excited when I buy a new pH pen.
> 
> I hope all this gear starts paying off for you. Looking forward to seeing these monsters once everything's dialed in.


That makes two of us! 

So yeah, I'm a gear junkie, it's a habit... I got it almost as bad as @dbkick !


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That makes two of us!
> 
> So yeah, I'm a gear junkie, it's a habit... I got it almost as bad as @dbkick !


My hobby is spending all my money repairing vehicles, apparently. What a shit week.

I'm a gear whore too, though, mostly in other hobbies...fly fishing, music production, yeesh.

I'd really like to have that Rev Micro system. Looks badass, I keep going to their site and daydreaming about it.


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> My hobby is spending all my money repairing vehicles, apparently. What a shit week.
> 
> I'm a gear whore too, though, mostly in other hobbies...fly fishing, music production, yeesh.
> 
> I'd really like to have that Rev Micro system. Looks badass, I keep going to their site and daydreaming about it.


With the rounded sides, it looks like a pod for Elon Musk's Hyperloop tubes.

Dial it up to full speed, Cap'n!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 12, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> My hobby is spending all my money repairing vehicles, apparently. What a shit week.
> 
> I'm a gear whore too, though, mostly in other hobbies...fly fishing, music production, yeesh.
> 
> I'd really like to have that Rev Micro system. Looks badass, I keep going to their site and daydreaming about it.


To be fair, she's expensive, but I still love the shit out of this little car (stock photo) 
I got to buy new truck tires AND a new set for her last week.


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> To be fair, she's expensive, but I still love the shit out of this little car (stock photo)
> I got to buy new truck tires AND a new set for her last week.


Ooooo, sexy!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ooooo, sexy!


Twin turbo, all wheel drive, 6-speed manual, super fun. The woman drives it 90% of the time, but I'm the only one who _really drives_ it.  She mostly wears out the clutch and runs over sprinkler heads backing out of the driveway. Hence the tires. (I love you babe, I really do)

I wonder if I should just drive my ass out to Fort Collins in this rig, like, tonight?


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Twin turbo, all wheel drive, 6-speed manual, super fun. The woman drives it 90% of the time, but I'm the only one who _really drives_ it.  She mostly wears out the clutch and runs over sprinkler heads backing out of the driveway. Hence the tires. (I love you babe, I really do)
> 
> I wonder if I should just drive my ass out to Fort Collins in this rig, like, tonight?


I'd have lots of interesting toys to show you, and if you play your cards right you'd probably get to smoke some weed for your trouble. 

Cuz I'm a nice guy like that. If you were here by Saturday, I'd even invite you to my party!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'd have lots of interesting toys to show you, and if you play your cards right you'd probably get to smoke some weed for your trouble.
> 
> Cuz I'm a nice guy like that. If you were here by Saturday, I'd even invite you to my party!


Never mind. I wouldn't want to ruin your party. Just kidding, talk soon.


----------



## dbkick (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That makes two of us!
> 
> So yeah, I'm a gear junkie, it's a habit... I got it almost as bad as @dbkick !


You got it much worse than me buddy. I've found my tech and am sticking with it.


----------



## dbkick (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm looking forward to putting it through its paces and then seeing how it runs an 860W Allstart.
> 
> Thanks again, guys!


Ask to see the waveform on an oscilloscope.


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

dbkick said:


> Ask to see the waveform on an oscilloscope.


Can you rent one?


----------



## RM3 (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Can you rent one?


I have one


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I have one


BOOM! Looks like another meeting is in order!


----------



## RM3 (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> BOOM! Looks like another meeting is in order!


It's at work, I am an electronics tech ya know


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

RM3 said:


> It's at work, I am an electronics tech ya know


Did not know that. I was under the impression you were retired, for some reason. 

We'll have to set a date for me to bring the unit down for testing, then.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 12, 2016)

Colorado here I come! I'll be there tomorrow. @RM3 you up for a visit this weekend?


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Colorado here I come! I'll be there tomorrow. @RM3 you up for a visit this weekend?


ROAD TRIP! 

(Steal the Audi for the weekend. Ask for forgiveness, not permission)


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> ROAD TRIP!
> 
> (Steal the Audi for the weekend. Ask for forgiveness, not permission)


She was ready to throw our relationship away over the car, I'm good, lol. Also; my fly fishing gear won't fit in the Audi!

Truth told there's some legitimate maintenance that needs be done on the TT before a long trip, she's right about that...fucker.


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> She was ready to throw our relationship away over the car, I'm good, lol. Also; my fly fishing gear won't fit in the Audi!
> 
> Truth told there's some legitimate maintenance that needs be done on the TT before a long trip, she's right about that...fucker.


Whoa. Keep the car. .. j/k.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Whoa. Keep the car. .. j/k.


I begrudgingly admit that the lady is still a better ride.


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I begrudgingly admit that the lady is still a better ride.


Yeah, but you gotta watch out for maintenance expenses on them.


----------



## Revolution Micro (May 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's where it came from, in just two days.
> 
> And I'm not kidding, it has to be the prettiest grow light I've ever seen.


 awe  that makes me so happy. We put a lot of effort into trying to make her beautiful.


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2016)

Revolution Micro said:


> awe  that makes me so happy. We put a lot of effort into trying to make her beautiful.


I'm getting a place set up for testing and we should have the light up and running this weekend! 

You've done well, it's a very impressive piece. 'Elegant' is no exaggeration.


----------



## Netherfly (May 13, 2016)

Hey @ttystikk! finally took some time to check out your vertical operation
Good stuff! stuff that is good 

But it's getting late now, and i've been scrolling back page after page after page, but cannot find any picture of your COB array.

You guys are a bunch of old lady's hehe
By now i think i deserve a re-post of some pictures


----------



## ttystikk (May 13, 2016)

Netherfly said:


> Hey @ttystikk! finally took some time to check out your vertical operation
> Good stuff! stuff that is good
> 
> But it's getting late now, and i've been scrolling back page after page after page, but cannot find any picture of your COB array.
> ...


They're coming...


----------



## dandyrandy (May 13, 2016)

I got to ride along on this. I'll twist one up. Too bad I'm stuck in the Bible belt.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 14, 2016)

I am here at Casa del @ttystikk, having a great time, he is a gracious host. I'm always up early, so I am just chillin in this CO drizzle by myself. Already worth the drive, and the party isn't until tonight! I could see myself living here, I already dress like a native.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 14, 2016)

Also; The pictures of his plants don't do them justice, those colas are as big as my arm, and I'm not a small guy. The scale of his setup is not easy to grasp, until you see it in person.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 14, 2016)

Revolution Micro said:


> awe  that makes me so happy. We put a lot of effort into trying to make her beautiful.


I have seen her in person now, she is lovely, very clean, seems very well built altogether. I like the controller too, really nice stuff.


----------



## ttystikk (May 14, 2016)

It's PARTY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

Wow! What a great time! Finally winding down from a fantastic birthday party with alllllllllllll the fixins!


----------



## Kasuti (May 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Wow! What a great time! Finally winding down from a fantastic birthday party with alllllllllllll the fixins!


Happy birthday! How many decades old are you now?


----------



## dbkick (May 15, 2016)

Kasuti said:


> Happy birthday! How many decades old are you now?


That particular fucker is old although for that age looks pretty good, an olderish Danny Mcbride look, sporting for sure.
He's at least 4 years younger than I by the way :/
Old fucker.


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

Kasuti said:


> Happy birthday! How many decades old are you now?


It was my semi centennial celebration!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 15, 2016)

I'm having breakfast in Laramie this morning on my way back to Mordor. I had a blast with your crew, @ttystikk, and you were an absolute pleasure to hang out with. Seeing the op in person was a revelation, it really is a bitch to take photos that do it justice but, my oh my, what a mighty jungle!


----------



## rkymtnman (May 15, 2016)

happy belated @ttystikk i was gonna come up with a pack of Depends for ya but wasnt' sure of your size. lol.


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I'm having breakfast in Laramie this morning on my way back to Mordor. I had a blast with your crew, @ttystikk, and you were an absolute pleasure to hang out with. Seeing the op in person was a revelation, it really is a bitch to take photos that do it justice but, my oh my, what a mighty jungle!


It was a great birthday present for you to just to make the trip out and meet all of us! 

I'm glad we had the chance to connect, talk things over- and party! 

Safe travels, my friend and don't let Mordor' Orcs get you down.


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> happy belated @ttystikk i was gonna come up with a pack of Depends for ya but wasnt' sure of your size. lol.


I got the old fart's cane, so the tradition of hazing the old man is intact. Bastard. Lol

We had a fuckin' blast, and a photo booth, lol


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (May 15, 2016)

Happy Birthday Tittysticks. Wish I had more time yesterday. I couldn't make it up there.


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Happy Birthday Tittysticks. Wish I had more time yesterday. I couldn't make it up there.


I'm sorry you missed it, but you're welcome anytime!


----------



## BobBitchen (May 15, 2016)

took a run for ya TTY,
not exactly how I planned, but its what happened...
first 100 -200 yrds not so much fun...lol..
hash caps had just kicked in ( my excuse lol)


----------



## Mohican (May 15, 2016)

The next video that popped up of you in vimeo was awesome!


----------



## BobBitchen (May 15, 2016)

Mohican said:


> The next video that popped up of you in vimeo was awesome!


tnx Mo, dont know witch one your talking about, I havnt used the camera in a few years, or fallen...lol...I think they are tied in..."kodak courage "


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

Off to the hot tub, for recuperative purposes lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

BobBitchen said:


> took a run for ya TTY,
> not exactly how I planned, but its what happened...
> first 100 -200 yrds not so much fun...lol..
> hash caps had just kicked in ( my excuse lol)


Ooooohhhh yeah! That's a baller save, bro! The adrenaline kicked in just watching it!


----------



## BobBitchen (May 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ooooohhhh yeah! That's a baller save, bro! The adrenaline kicked in just watching it!


yea fairly steep & big cliff @ the angle I was going...havnt puckered like that in awhile..lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

BobBitchen said:


> yea fairly steep & big cliff @ the angle I was going...havnt puckered like that in awhile..lol


I've gone headfirst on my back down an avalanche chute. I'm pretty glad I lived lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

MONSTER REPORT

The biggest plant in my first COB LED run, a Chem Sour Diesel, officially weighed out to 32 zips, on a da nose.

HOLY SHIT.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> MONSTER REPORT
> 
> The biggest plant in my first COB LED run, a Chem Sour Diesel, officially weighed out to 32 zips, on a da nose.
> 
> HOLY SHIT.


That's pretty sick, man. 2lb per plant indoor, especially with that small of a footprint, is nothing to sneeze at. I'll be interested to see how the COB flower stacks up against the HID grows of the same strain. I better make a trip back there soon, you know, for research.  Cheers to you and your crew.


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> That's pretty sick, man. 2lb per plant indoor, especially with that small of a footprint, is nothing to sneeze at. I'll be interested to see how the COB flower stacks up against the HID grows of the same strain. I better make a trip back there soon, you know, for research.  Cheers to you and your crew.


Opinions are unanimous that the COB LED grown product is denser, frostier, smells stronger and is extremely potent when compared to the very same phenos grown under HID. 

If folks say the only advantage to using COB LED lighting is to reduce their power bill, I'd say they're missing the best part!


----------



## OneHitDone (May 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Opinions are unanimous that the COB LED grown product is denser, frostier, smells stronger and is extremely potent when compared to the very same phenos grown under HID.
> 
> If folks say the only advantage to using COB LED lighting is to reduce their power bill, I'd say they're missing the best part!


So when are you gonna share what this setup looks like?


----------



## PKHydro (May 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> MONSTER REPORT
> 
> The biggest plant in my first COB LED run, a Chem Sour Diesel, officially weighed out to 32 zips, on a da nose.
> 
> HOLY SHIT.


Shit ya man. Congrats on the 2lb mark. I thought I was going to do it this harvest but came up just short again.


----------



## Kasuti (May 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I got the old fart's cane, so the tradition of hazing the old man is intact. Bastard. Lol
> 
> We had a fuckin' blast, and a photo booth, lol


Erase all the photo booth pics. They may come back to haunt you when you run for president!!


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> Shit ya man. Congrats on the 2lb mark. I thought I was going to do it this harvest but came up just short again.


Fuck, dude- you're killin' it as it is over there! 

That's the number from biggest one. The smallest one is tiny by comparison. I'm frankly a lil envious of your consistency.


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

Kasuti said:


> Erase all the photo booth pics. They may come back to haunt you when you run for president!!


Just the penis pics. Sorry, @.Pinworm.


----------



## Kasuti (May 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Just the penis pics. Sorry, @.Pinworm.


Lol


----------



## Afgan King (May 15, 2016)

So you have 5400w on 6 plants total?


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> So you have 5400w on 6 plants total?


That's right. Too much variability between biggest and smallest yields, tho. 

That's why you're helping me switch to coco!


----------



## Afgan King (May 15, 2016)

You should be pulling more sure I mean is that 5400 supposed to equivalate to roughly 6 hps?


----------



## Afgan King (May 15, 2016)

Haven't thought about it till now cause they say more weight per watt of LED and u basically pulled 996g off of 900 Watts u should be doing way more


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 15, 2016)

That's a fucken massive haul!!


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Haven't thought about it till now cause they say more weight per watt of LED and u basically pulled 996g off of 900 Watts u should be doing way more


I agree, which is why I'm switching substrates.


----------



## RM3 (May 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I agree, which is why I'm switching substrates.


Would love to see a side by side


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Would love to see a side by side


It will be a valid comparison, since the only variable to change will be the substrate system.


----------



## RM3 (May 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It will be a valid comparison, since the only variable to change will be the substrate system.


I meant with my mix but that works too


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I meant with my mix but that works too


I'm game!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 16, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Happy Birthday Tittysticks. Wish I had more time yesterday. I couldn't make it up there.





OneHitDone said:


> So when are you gonna share what this setup looks like?


I drove umpteen-hundred miles this weekend to see it, but I didn't take pictures, it is verböten. There are reasons he's not sharing the COB setup yet. but I've seen them in action in person. Very cool stuff! I only took pics in the CDM-lit areas. The thing you don't realize is just how big those fucking trees are, at least I didn't. The main stems are over 2" in diameter, probably 3" or more and they are 6'x4' walls of colas.


Afgan King said:


> You should be pulling more sure I mean is that 5400 supposed to equivalate to roughly 6 hps?


It wasn't all 5400 watts on a single plant. I don't know how many watts he has per root system, but yeah, not 5400 watts.


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I drove umpteen-hundred miles this weekend to see it, but I didn't take pictures, it is verböten. There are reasons he's not sharing the COB setup yet. but I've seen them in action in person. Very cool stuff! I only took pics in the CDM-lit areas. The thing you don't realize is just how big those fucking trees are, at least I didn't. The main stems are over 2" in diameter, probably 3" or more and they are 6'x4' walls of colas.
> 
> It wasn't all 5400 watts on a single plant. I don't know how many watts he has per root system, but yeah, not 5400 watts.





Afgan King said:


> You should be pulling more sure I mean is that 5400 supposed to equivalate to roughly 6 hps?


It's 5400W per rack, whether that rack runs 5 x 860W CDM Allstart lamps on magnetic ballasts or 96 x CXB3590 @ 54W each.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's 5400W per rack, whether that rack runs 5 x 860W CDM Allstart lamps on magnetic ballasts or 96 x CXB3590 @ 54W each.


But how many plants per rack? 4 or something, right?


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> But how many plants per rack? 4 or something, right?


Every rack is the same; six plants, each in its own 27 gallon tub, each with its own 4' wide x 6' tall trellis panel, 24 sq ft.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Every rack is the same; six plants, each in its own 27 gallon tub, each with its own 4' wide x 6' tall trellis panel, 24 sq ft.


I finally just put it (your system) all together. O M G , I see! 900W per root system, actual draw.


----------



## Afgan King (May 16, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I drove umpteen-hundred miles this weekend to see it, but I didn't take pictures, it is verböten. There are reasons he's not sharing the COB setup yet. but I've seen them in action in person. Very cool stuff! I only took pics in the CDM-lit areas. The thing you don't realize is just how big those fucking trees are, at least I didn't. The main stems are over 2" in diameter, probably 3" or more and they are 6'x4' walls of colas.
> 
> It wasn't all 5400 watts on a single plant. I don't know how many watts he has per root system, but yeah, not 5400 watts.


It's 900 per root system 5400 for 6 plants been there seen it in person I pull a gram a watt with 1000's and probably pulling more on this run than that and my plants are half the size


----------



## Afgan King (May 16, 2016)

Watch when he gets into my system I think he'll pull more and do it more consistently


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Watch when he gets into my system I think he'll pull more and do it more consistently


I agree. RDWC has too many points of failure and it's too finicky. 

Getting the climate control on point as well, that's going to help a lot.


----------



## Afgan King (May 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I agree. RDWC has too many points of failure and it's too finicky.
> 
> Getting the climate control on point as well, that's going to help a lot.


Climate and get rid of shit ton of humidity from all that water running


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (May 16, 2016)

tty..
SWC much easier, forgiving,way less aqua, less chilling,almost as good..

ps Afghan..you need/want "all that humidity"..it comes from the foliage tranpiration

tty..did i miss the weight numbers vs wattage etc..?

sorry there is a lot of dialog on this thread


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Climate and get rid of shit ton of humidity from all that water running


Lol

All that humidity is coming from my plants, bro!


----------



## Afgan King (May 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lol
> 
> All that humidity is coming from my plants, bro!


Ya ya lol mine never gets above 50 even at night I know u run 70's alot 


OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> tty..
> SWC much easier, forgiving,way less aqua, less chilling,almost as good..
> 
> ps Afghan..you need/want "all that humidity"..it comes from the foliage tranpiration
> ...


He is pulling a 1.1g a watt which I believe is low for how big his plants are I can't wait to get my setup in there and show everyone how to really throw down and the only human error is mixing the nutes according to schedule and physically watering them lol he's gonna kill it with my system in there


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> tty..
> SWC much easier, forgiving,way less aqua, less chilling,almost as good..
> 
> ps Afghan..you need/want "all that humidity"..it comes from the foliage tranpiration
> ...


Still getting the numbers for the whole run together.

Biggest plant was Chem Sour Diesel, 32oz.

Smallest was a Chem Dog Super Skunk, 7.5oz. Another CD/SS is coming, it's much bigger.

That kind of variability tells any process engineer that my process is nowhere near under control as yet.


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Ya ya lol mine never gets above 50 even at night I know u run 70's alot
> 
> 
> He is pulling a 1.1g a watt which I believe is low for how big his plants are I can't wait to get my setup in there and show everyone how to really throw down and the only human error is mixing the nutes according to schedule and physically watering them lol he's gonna kill it with my system in there


This, plus getting the chiller installation completed is going to make some crazy numbers.


----------



## Afgan King (May 16, 2016)

Wait till that cuvee runs thru and the star glue lol your strains will prob shock a lil on first run with switching over after running them in that system but I wouldn't expect anything but a higher yield


----------



## PKHydro (May 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fuck, dude- you're killin' it as it is over there!
> 
> That's the number from biggest one. The smallest one is tiny by comparison. I'm frankly a lil envious of your consistency.


Easier to be consistent when I'm mono cropping. Going to be switching things up here shortly trying some new strains. I'm sure I'll be all over the map when that happens.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 16, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> It's 900 per root system 5400 for 6 plants been there seen it in person I pull a gram a watt with 1000's and probably pulling more on this run than that and my plants are half the size


Yeah, I just saw it, but it was a lot to take in. I'm liking the switch to coco and that ChillKing. The new cuts are going to be interesting to watch, too, I haven't seen any GG #4 or crosses thereof in vert grows yet. Star Glue, I'm guessing that's Starkiller x GG #4? Gnarly, that ought to be the danks.


----------



## Afgan King (May 16, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Yeah, I just saw it, but it was a lot to take in. I'm liking the switch to coco and that ChillKing. The new cuts are going to be interesting to watch, too, I haven't seen any GG #4 or crosses thereof in vert grows yet. Star Glue, I'm guessing that's Starkiller x GG #4? Gnarly, that ought to be the danks.


Gg4 x star dawg is star glue they came from me lol have a Jilly candy cut x star dawg, lemon g x star dawg, grape ape x star dawg and I'm getting citrus SAP tangiexgg4


----------



## Michael Huntherz (May 16, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Gg4 x star dawg is star glue they came from me lol have a Jilly candy cut x star dawg, lemon g x star dawg, grape ape x star dawg and I'm getting citrus SAP tangiexgg4


I saw those new cuts, cool cool. The citrus sap tangie gg4 sounds great to me.


----------



## Afgan King (May 16, 2016)

Yup I'm looking for a male


----------



## Afgan King (May 16, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I saw those new cuts, cool cool. The citrus sap tangie gg4 sounds great to me.


I gave him a sick cut of star killer as well lol I'm sure you'll see it on his grow soon


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I gave him a sick cut of star killer as well lol I'm sure you'll see it on his grow soon


It went into coco and is already growing well, as are all the rest of the new arrivals. I'm pretty stoked to see how the new strains do in the system!


----------



## OneHitDone (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Ya ya lol mine never gets above 50 even at night I know u run 70's alot
> 
> 
> He is pulling a 1.1g a watt which I believe is low for how big his plants are I can't wait to get my setup in there and show everyone how to really throw down and the only human error is mixing the nutes according to schedule and physically watering them lol he's gonna kill it with my system in there


What's so special about "my system" that half the other coco growers on RIU aren't already doing


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> What's so special about "my system" that half the other coco growers on RIU aren't already doing


The schedule I use for canna has been built over 20 years this system is used at one of the top concentrate companies in Colorado if not #1 and they made 170 million dollars in their first year of business.......this system works for every strain same feed for every plant and I can guarantee 2lbs a light (1000w) if co2 and environment stays good thru the run and I'm not talking strain specific tho there are some that will fall short the average in the room will stay up I've seen forum cookies pull 1.5 a light and gg4 pull 23lbs off 15 plants at 4 plants a light, granted these numbers can be skewed due to those rooms running 45k Watts and 180 plants some can get bigger and take up more light but you catch the drift. I can guarantee even the most novice grower will slay it with this system just gotta follow directions and know how much your plants weigh when they are dry so u know when to feed


----------



## OneHitDone (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> The schedule I use for canna has been built over 20 years this system is used at one of the top concentrate companies in Colorado if not #1 and they made 170 million dollars in their first year of business.......this system works for every strain same feed for every plant and I can guarantee 2lbs a light (1000w) if co2 and environment stays good thru the run and I'm not talking strain specific tho there are some that will fall short the average in the room will stay up I've seen forum cookies pull 1.5 a light and gg4 pull 23lbs off 15 plants at 4 plants a light, granted these numbers can be skewed due to those rooms running 45k Watts and 180 plants some can get bigger and take up more light but you catch the drift. I can guarantee even the most novice grower will slay it with this system just gotta follow directions and know how much your plants weigh when they are dry so u know when to feed


So is this something you are willing to share with the rest of us or top secret like @ttystikk 's cob contraption?

Will you be ditching the 5-11-26 in favor of canna?


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

I'm in week 7 started yesterday and my ppms are at 2800 when I feed right now and the only signs of burn are on the very tips just to show I'm pushing them just enough this is 9 different strains in here with 20 days to go
Just to show there is 
Star glue
Sonic screwdriver
24k
Jesus og
And very last pic is dawg cookies gsc forum x star dawg


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> So is this something you are willing to share with the rest of us or top secret like @ttystikk 's cob contraption?
> 
> Will you be ditching the 5-11-26 in favor of canna?


Oh he is lol atleast till he gets it down and we deconstruct the canna line and figure it out fully I have a direct schedule of what to feed thru whole life cycle and I'm thinking of starting up a consultation business to help others who wanna learn an easy care free did I mention easy way of growing to pull guaranteed weight and quality I'll let his grow be my advertising lol


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> switch to coco!


No. Just no.


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> No. Just no.


Dissent without offering an alternative is unhelpful. 

Coco is the de facto standard in commercial facilities for a lot of very good reasons, including low cost, consistent performance and fault tolerance. 

I'm done with RDWC because it's none of those things. 

So what do you got?


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> So is this something you are willing to share with the rest of us or top secret like @ttystikk 's cob contraption?
> 
> Will you be ditching the 5-11-26 in favor of canna?


Lol

'I don't care that they stole my ideas. I care that they have none of their own.'
-Nicola Tesla


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dissent without offering an alternative is unhelpful.


Dissent? You have a fine system that merely needs to be dialed in. Coco can and will experience the same problems that you were experiencing with your RDWC. 



ttystikk said:


> Coco is the de facto standard in commercial facilities for a lot of very good reasons, including low cost, consistent performance and fault tolerance.


From what I've actually seen it's used less than soil. Coco is popular with some but many have gone back to soil to keep it simple. I have seen coco discarded after a single run. I have also seen it rinsed and reused. There is no standard in Colorado's cannabis industry at all. 



ttystikk said:


> So what do you got?


Stick with hydro, of course


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Dissent? You have a fine system that merely needs to be dialed in. Coco can and will experience the same problems that you were experiencing with your RDWC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In order;
1. I've been fucking with it for 5 years. I'm done. 

2. Organic dispensaries run soil, but otherwise the majority of facilities use coco or similar, such as 'Tupur'. By the truckload. Yes, they throw it away, to comply with environmental regulations. That makes it a standard. 

3. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. In my last run, one plant hit 2lbs, another didn't get 8 zips. THAT'S why commercial facilities gave up on RDWC a long time ago, because they can't build a business plan around inconsistent results. Neither can I.


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> In order;
> 1. I've been fucking with it for 5 years. I'm done.
> 
> 2. Organic dispensaries run soil, but otherwise the majority of facilities use coco or similar, such as 'Tupur'. By the truckload. Yes, they throw it away, to comply with environmental regulations. That makes it a standard.
> ...


And on my last run with the system I'm giving him my og hit 2lbs a light with no co2


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> And on my last run with the system I'm giving him my og hit 2lbs a light with no co2


@OneHitDone I'm running this system precisely because it's a proven and vetted system from a large commercial producer, used in several facilities with good and PREDICTABLE results.

I'm not a fanatic. This is growing, not Gospel. When someone offers me a system that works to the tune of a nine figure income statement, how am I not a moron if I refuse?


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Dissent? You have a fine system that merely needs to be dialed in. Coco can and will experience the same problems that you were experiencing with your RDWC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And tupur and Coco is used a lot in the industry in Colorado I've worked at multiple warehouses it's a majority of coco and runnung slabs for synthetic or running soil for organic. Coco gives me just as fast of growth with that buffer on the roots compared to If using straight roots in a bucket of water. U saying it needs to be dialed in after 5 years of using it shows its not a simple system especially how he does with multiple closed looped rdwc going at same time all in different life cycles all needing diff nutes and etc. He's not changing whole system he's giving me a rack to prove my point. And I will prove my point he should pull more than a gram a watt with those cob LEDs and that's his best run ever is a gram per watt on them. I bet we push it alot more and have better quality bud and more bud from it due to the plants living a stress free lifestyle


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

Ok, I lied. I AM a fanatic; I worship at the altar of "results!"


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## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @OneHitDone I'm running this system precisely because it's a proven and vetted system from a large commercial producer, used in several facilities with good and PREDICTABLE results.
> 
> I'm not a fanatic. This is growing, not Gospel. When someone offers me a system that works to the tune of a nine figure income statement, how am I not a moron if I refuse?


Right company made 170,000,000$ in their first year of business in Colorado......I didn't make that growing has anyone else on here had their system make that? Lol


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## SomeGuy (May 17, 2016)

Coco is great. I have done coco and growth is good. I personally think the SIPs have won for me though. Extremely low maintenance w hydro type growth in organic living soil... So far I'm 4 weeks in flower and it just won't quit... Lol. 


That's what I have for you instead of just coco... 

Pros to good sized sips:
-long intervals between filling up rez.
-no nutrients to feed. (Dry ferts and amendments in soil)
-exceptional growth
-top soil drys out so gnats are gone 
-supercharged w a simple airstone in rez


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Coco is great. I have done coco and growth is good. I personally think the SIPs have won for me though. Extremely low maintenance w hydro type growth in organic living soil... So far I'm 4 weeks in flower and it just won't quit... Lol.
> 
> 
> That's what I have for you instead of just coco...
> ...


Oh ya it's great and everyone loving air stones in the res I always just wanted it to keep nutes mixed and fresh never thought bout it adding extra oxygen lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Coco is great. I have done coco and growth is good. I personally think the SIPs have won for me though. Extremely low maintenance w hydro type growth in organic living soil... So far I'm 4 weeks in flower and it just won't quit... Lol.
> 
> 
> That's what I have for you instead of just coco...
> ...


The 5 gallon pails full of Tupur will be sitting in the same 27 gallon tubs I used for RDWC. The runoff will collect in the tub and be accessible to the roots, helping to maximize water and nutrient uptake and thus yields.


----------



## OneHitDone (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Coco is great. I have done coco and growth is good. I personally think the SIPs have won for me though. Extremely low maintenance w hydro type growth in organic living soil... So far I'm 4 weeks in flower and it just won't quit... Lol.
> 
> 
> That's what I have for you instead of just coco...
> ...


What about "Flushing" with a setup like this?


----------



## SomeGuy (May 17, 2016)

oh yes.. I follow along and can visually picture what your intent is. here is my 2cents...

-feed lines and drippers suck
-mixing nutrients in a big rez sucks
-keeping that solution "perfect" sucks also

-the "wick" in a sip eliminates drippers and pumps (zero mess or leaks)
-does exactly what you are saying but in a ground-water type of way without any timers, pumps or anything mechanical to go wrong. Even if the airstone quits.. BFD its just to add oxygen to the water anyway. FYI Ive ran my sips without the stones on for a couple days.. no issues. 

There is my argument. its all about lazy with results for me.. LOL


----------



## SomeGuy (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> What about "Flushing" with a setup like this?


Why the fuck would I need to flush organic soil


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> What about "Flushing" with a setup like this?


The only flush involved is feeding ph'd water for the whole week before crop. I feed every 3-4 days and they drink about 3-3.5 gallons Everytime I feed into my pots so a total of 6-7gallons will be used over the week but it's basically still a hydro system so that last week cleans em nicely and gets you a great fade


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> oh yes.. I follow along and can visually picture what your intent is. here is my 2cents...
> 
> -feed lines and drippers suck
> -mixing nutrients in a big rez sucks
> ...



And no drippers or pumps everywhere one or 2 res with a 1/2hp pumpa hose and a wand mix up before you feed and anything left over can last for 7 days with an air stone or pump keeping it mixed I almost never use all my feed and use old mix when I mix up new one I have a gallon counter on my hose so whatever I add to the res before feeding is what I add in nutes


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## OneHitDone (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Why the fuck would I need to flush organic soil


To clear out that nasty dirt taste


----------



## SomeGuy (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> To clear out that nasty dirt taste



LMFAO.. 

I must say... Ive grown hydro. I always flushed in hydro. but flushing is true nonsense in organics.

OMG AFGHAN KING no Thanks on hand watering everything.. even with a wand.. LOL


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> oh yes.. I follow along and can visually picture what your intent is. here is my 2cents...
> 
> -feed lines and drippers suck
> -mixing nutrients in a big rez sucks
> ...


That all adds up to a concept engineering schools call 'fault tolerance'; when things continue swimming along without the need for much active direction, even if a component fails. 

By way of stark contrast, if any of several different things go wrong for even a few hours, the RDWC run is fucked.


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> LMFAO..
> 
> I must say... Ive grown hydro. I always flushed in hydro. but flushing is true nonsense in organics.
> 
> OMG AFGHAN KING no Thanks on hand watering everything.. even with a wand.. LOL


Shit we did it in rooms with 180 plants lol it's the best way to do it


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That all adds up to a concept engineering schools call 'fault tolerance'; when things continue swimming along without the need for much active direction, even if a component fails.
> Why I love handfeeding you have to look at your plants while you feed gives the grower time to learn what each plant wants and likes
> By way of stark contrast, if any of several different things go wrong for even a few hours, the RDWC run is fucked.


----------



## SomeGuy (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That all adds up to a concept engineering schools call 'fault tolerance'; when things continue swimming along without the need for much active direction, even if a component fails.
> 
> By way of stark contrast, if any of several different things go wrong for even a few hours, the RDWC run is fucked.



Yes... fault tolerance is good for folks with no time to "fiddle" with it. I too found dwc/rdwc a huge PIA. So I am thrilled to find a system I can leave alone for almost two weeks if need be and will not fail but in fact thrive. The organic soil seems to "buffer" any problem from roots in the rez.

For the record. I top watered once when I started them to make sure the medium was all wetted the same. I have added nothing in the way of feed and have zero top watering since.


----------



## OneHitDone (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Yes... fault tolerance is good for folks with no time to "fiddle" with it. I too found dwc/rdwc a huge PIA. So I am thrilled to find a system I can leave alone for almost two weeks if need be and will not fail but in fact thrive. The organic soil seems to "buffer" any problem from roots in the rez.
> 
> For the record. I top watered once when I started them to make sure the medium was all wetted the same. I have added nothing in the way of feed and have zero top watering since.


My question is how do you know what to amend with, when, and in what quantity's?


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> My question is how do you know what to amend with, when, and in what quantity's?


You don't amend with anything it's run with canna nutrients he's got someone taking apart the canna line to figure out in a run or two what all we need to make it ourselves and I have a schedule for ml per gallon of each nute from canna during every week of the plants life.


----------



## SomeGuy (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> My question is how do you know what to amend with, when, and in what quantity's?


Well... I just know... From experience. But in the system Afghan is running it's bottled nutes. Dry ferts I use w amendments. If it's omri listed there is a very low chance.of it burning


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> You don't amend with anything it's run with canna nutrients he's got someone taking apart the canna line to figure out in a run or two what all we need to make it ourselves and I have a schedule for ml per gallon of each nute from canna during every week of the plants life.


@MisterBlah already has the basics on his site; 

http://www.open-salt.com/fertilizer-database/canna-continental/

I may need hand holding, but I give credit where it's due!


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

Where's rhizotonic and cannazym and sweet raw?


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Where's rhizotonic and cannazym and sweet raw?


https://www.rollitup.org/t/reverse-engineering-everyones-nutrients.893906/


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

Its up to u buddy


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

I'm just sticking with what I know there are always proprietary things they leave off the label just like with big pharma with medicine some name brands have ingredients that's are in the generics idk if u do it with good success I'm not an idiot I'll gladly save the money just not in a position to gamble a crop right now if ya catch my drift lol


----------



## OneHitDone (May 17, 2016)

@ttystikk this is where I think you will find coco performance trailing behind RDWC is in the young stages. Trying to get them off and running from clone.
Hydro just delivers in that aspect


----------



## MisterBlah (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Where's rhizotonic and cannazym and sweet raw?





Afgan King said:


> I'm just sticking with what I know there are always proprietary things they leave off the label just like with big pharma with medicine some name brands have ingredients that's are in the generics idk if u do it with good success I'm not an idiot I'll gladly save the money just not in a position to gamble a crop right now if ya catch my drift lol


I understand not wanting to gamble on a crop. I know it takes a lot to understand a lot of what I'm doing. And that's okay. I don't expect people to make changes over night. Just like growing plants, it's a process and it takes time and effort, from both me and you. I do my best to provide accurate information, but again, this is not a commercial enterprise. I don't have a lot of money to put into it and I'm not here to make money off this, so it's not easy and it doesn't go quickly.


----------



## OneHitDone (May 17, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> I understand not wanting to gamble on a crop. I know it takes a lot to understand a lot of what I'm doing. And that's okay. I don't expect people to make changes over night. Just like growing plants, it's a process and it takes time and effort, from both me and you. I do my best to provide accurate information, but again, this is not a commercial enterprise. I don't have a lot of money to put into it and I'm not here to make money off this, so it's not easy and it doesn't go quickly.


If your the Cat running the Salt site. FloraNova supposedly has Protien Hydrolysate and maybe some other shit in it I don't see listed in your formula.
It is definitely not a "clear" mineral mix.


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> I understand not wanting to gamble on a crop. I know it takes a lot to understand a lot of what I'm doing. And that's okay. I don't expect people to make changes over night. Just like growing plants, it's a process and it takes time and effort, from both me and you. I do my best to provide accurate information, but again, this is not a commercial enterprise. I don't have a lot of money to put into it and I'm not here to make money off this, so it's not easy and it doesn't go quickly.


Believe me I'm excited to hopefully be able to drop this 800$ price tag for two runs. I'm excited to see it honestly


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> @ttystikk this is where I think you will find coco performance trailing behind RDWC is in the young stages. Trying to get them off and running from clone.
> Hydro just delivers in that aspect
> View attachment 3684329


Do you know what 'hydro' even means? What do you feed them in coco, if not 'hydro'-ponic nutrients? 

I guess we'll see; I'm not changing much else for the first few runs.


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> @ttystikk this is where I think you will find coco performance trailing behind RDWC is in the young stages. Trying to get them off and running from clone.
> Hydro just delivers in that aspect
> View attachment 3684329


Not at all I'm getting 2 128 site ez cloners like I had at work and gonna pump out monsters within 15 days of being cut they go right into the coco no issues with a full root balls. I've shown @ttystikk what I can do he trusts me he's seen it all in person cuz he actually took interest in what i was doing and is the one who got me thinking about how much we can really do with my grow system and using his style of growing and lighting. I'm gonna be devoting time over there to put down some true monsters hit some 2gpw numbers on a large scale and with how many people he knows and respect his way and what he does maybe it'll open some people's eyes to some of the young dudes in the game in only 27 but been doing it on and off 10 years my dad taught horticulture and botany along with biology and has a green thumb out this world. I know there are a lot of claims and loud mouths out there who can't back up their talk but I know what's about to happen at his house and it's gonna be beautiful


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> I understand not wanting to gamble on a crop. I know it takes a lot to understand a lot of what I'm doing. And that's okay. I don't expect people to make changes over night. Just like growing plants, it's a process and it takes time and effort, from both me and you. I do my best to provide accurate information, but again, this is not a commercial enterprise. I don't have a lot of money to put into it and I'm not here to make money off this, so it's not easy and it doesn't go quickly.


Right. But in the end I'll have an education on the subject, and that's worth all the effort to me.


----------



## MisterBlah (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Believe me I'm excited to hopefully be able to drop this 800$ price tag for two runs. I'm excited to see it honestly


But, to give you an honest remark on Rhizotonic and Boost, the short answer to when I'll have a replacement for them is I have no idea. I know they are hormone blends. I also know, for the most part, what hormones are in them. So, I could go so far as suggest comparable replacements but not actually an identical product. 

Now, Cannazym, on the other hand, is a an enzyme product. The same enzymes that are used to clean up pond algae and shit like that. Look up Pondcare Pond-Zyme or any other pond enzyme.


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

I


MisterBlah said:


> But, to give you an honest remark on Rhizotonic and Boost, the short answer to when I'll have a replacement for them is I have no idea. I know they are hormone blends. I also know, for the most part, what hormones are in them. So, I could go so far as suggest comparable replacements but not actually an identical product.
> 
> Now, Cannazym, on the other hand, is a an enzyme product. The same enzymes that are used to clean up pond algae and shit like that. Look up Pondcare Pond-Zyme or any other pond enzyme.


I do not use boost so don't worry about it believe me I've met the CEO and president of canna on 4/20 and they said it's an additive that can do good but over all is un-needed in the grow but rhizotonic is my favorite shit in the world straight up lol


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I
> 
> 
> I do not use boost so don't worry about it believe me I've met the CEO and president of canna on 4/20 and they said it's an additive that can do good but over all is un-needed in the grow but rhizotonic is my favorite shit in the world straight up lol


On another note rhizotonic is the most expensive of all their product lol but I can testify that shit is amazing


----------



## RM3 (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Believe me I'm excited to hopefully be able to drop this 800$ price tag for two runs. I'm excited to see it honestly


wow $800, I spend about $3 a grow


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

RM3 said:


> wow $800, I spend about $3 a grow


Oh I'm sure you do believe me I'll figure out a way to get rid of the price tag and it's not that much a single run depends how big plants and everything else is


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

RM3 said:


> wow $800, I spend about $3 a grow


'Bout a pound, lol

We'll see what lessons can be learned. I'm sure I'll learn plenty, which to me is the best part. 

Such is my preferred coin.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 17, 2016)

I'm not so interested in the salt part, but I am interested in seeing the plants produced from the whole setup. Personally I like the SIP's with living organic soil, but to each their own.


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

RM3 said:


> wow $800, I spend about $3 a grow


Up til now, that's been my bill too. On the other hand, if yields increase by only ten percent it's paid for itself. 



Vnsmkr said:


> I'm not so interested in the salt part, but I am interested in seeing the plants produced from the whole setup. Personally I like the SIP's with living organic soil, but to each their own.


I've been thinking about it and there's exactly no reason at all why it couldn't be very compatible with what I'm doing.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I've been thinking about it and there's exactly no reason at all why it couldn't be very compatible with what I'm doing.


Where there's a will there's a way buddy


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> What do you feed them in coco, if not 'hydro'-ponic nutrients?


So you're telling me that hand watering hydroponic nutrients into coco is better than having it feed automatically and recirculate? Drain to waste is cheaper? Top feeding with a wand is better? 

If you're switching strains, switching nutrients, and switching lights, and switching medium - it's honestly hard to pinpoint what is better than the other. It will take a bloom cycle, or two.
I'm still tuned in to watch, though. Not sure what I'm watching anymore but I'm watching


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> So you're telling me that hand watering hydroponic nutrients into coco is better than having it feed automatically and recirculate? Drain to waste is cheaper? Top feeding with a wand is better?
> 
> If you're switching strains, switching nutrients, and switching lights, and switching medium - it's honestly hard to pinpoint what is better than the other. It will take a bloom cycle, or two.
> I'm still tuned in to watch, though. Not sure what I'm watching anymore but I'm watching


"Fearlessness"


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> If you're switching strains, switching nutrients, and switching lights, and switching medium


I had to laugh at this. Reminded me of this Nigerian guy I used to work with. Were having some telemetry issues with some electric/hydraulic tools and instead of isolating 1 thing he wanted to rip the whole string apart every time. I told him if he did that again his head was going to meet my sledge hammer . Carry on


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 17, 2016)

Go big or go home eh


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> U saying it needs to be dialed in after 5 years of using it shows its not a simple system especially how he does with multiple closed looped rdwc going at same time all in different life cycles all needing diff nutes and etc.


Well that's what separates some of us from the others. With over 23 years of hydroponic experience, to me, it just needs to be dialed in. To others, it needs to be scrapped and verboten.




Afgan King said:


> my dad taught horticulture and botany along with biology and has a green thumb out this world.


OK. Now I got it. All your posts make sense now.


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Where there's a will there's a way buddy


Uh yeah, like 'drop in fit'; the complete water system is already in place, I could recirculate fresh water under SIPS tubs full of whatever I like just as I do RDWC now! This would certainly work to aerate things at the very least. It would also eliminate the water wand.


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I had to laugh at this. Reminded me of this Nigerian guy I used to work with. Were having some telemetry issues with some electric/hydraulic tools and instead of isolating 1 thing he wanted to rip the whole string apart every time. I told him if he did that again his head was going to meet my sledge hammer . Carry on


There's method to my madness; I've already tested RDWC vs COB LED, CDM, HPS AND M-O-U-S-E. On to a better trap.


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 'Bout a pound, lol
> 
> We'll see what lessons can be learned. I'm sure I'll learn plenty, which to me is the best part.
> 
> Such is my preferred coin.


Right the 797$ difference will be made up for in the extra weight in the big picture I'll blast some more trim for ya and pay for it that way lol


----------



## Afgan King (May 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> OK. Now I got it. All your posts make sense now.


So what's that mean?


----------



## SomeGuy (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Uh yeah, like 'drop in fit'; the complete water system is already in place, I could recirculate fresh water under SIPS tubs full of whatever I like just as I do RDWC now! This would certainly work to aerate things at the very least. It would also eliminate the water wand.


I thoughts that's what I said a while back... Lol. Literally a great system waiting to happen. Lol.


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> I thoughts that's what I said a while back... Lol. Literally a great system waiting to happen. Lol.


Gee, thanks- now I got MORE shit to test!


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There's method to my madness; I've already tested RDWC vs COB LED, CDM, HPS AND M-O-U-S-E. On to a better trap.


Dude I didnt even think of you when I read that , I only that of that fuggin ignorant Nigerian. I know you do shit systematically.......


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 17, 2016)

Maybe I'll turn my patio upstairs into a sea of sip's. I was thinking about that last night. Good meeting last week for new gig, hopefully they push the button faster than they estimated (2 mos) as I am ready to play, been ready to play


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Maybe I'll turn my patio upstairs into a sea of sip's. I was thinking about that last night. Good meeting last week for new gig, hopefully they push the button faster than they estimated (2 mos) as I am ready to play, been ready to play


Don't let that stop you from hunting. Until they sign and you're getting a paycheck, it's not guaranteed.. ...and really, not even then sometimes.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Don't let that stop you from hunting. Until they sign and you're getting a paycheck, it's not guaranteed.. ...and really, not even then sometimes.


Yeah I havent stopped but the outlook is fucking grim tbh as it has been since the powers that be decided to start this power struggle bullshit....nothing is guaranteed then either


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Well that's what separates some of us from the others. With over 23 years of hydroponic experience, to me, it just needs to be dialed in. To others, it needs to be scrapped and verboten.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You've been invited up here to have a look for yourself, more than once. Now you're gonna hide behind your keyboard and be rude to someone because they brought some viable options to the table? 

That's pretty cheesy, so I got some advice for you; 

SHOW UP OR SHUT UP. 

The insipid potshots are unwelcome.


----------



## MisterBlah (May 17, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> On another note rhizotonic is the most expensive of all their product lol but I can testify that shit is amazing


Rhizotonic is a blend of a few B vitamins, as they mentioned, but also most likely has the growth hormone Indole-3-butyric acid in it, and possibly 1-Naphthaleneacetic acid. They are commonly found in rooting compounds and increase the rate of root growth in clones.


----------



## MisterBlah (May 17, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> Rhizotonic is a blend of a few B vitamins, as they mentioned, but also most likely has the growth hormone Indole-3-butyric acid in it, and possibly 1-Naphthaleneacetic acid. They are commonly found in rooting compounds and increase the rate of root growth in clones.


The one thing that I should note is that I have no idea what concentration they are at in the fertilizer and I have no idea what concentration is appropriate in a nutrient feed solution. I'll of course try to learn, but these are such a specialized additive, so who knows when it will happen by.


----------



## Afgan King (May 18, 2016)

Hey @ttystikk you want a cut of this Jesus lol


----------



## OneHitDone (May 18, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> Rhizotonic is a blend of a few B vitamins, as they mentioned, but also most likely has the growth hormone Indole-3-butyric acid in it, and possibly 1-Naphthaleneacetic acid. They are commonly found in rooting compounds and increase the rate of root growth in clones.


Sounds like KLN with a little vitamin B?
Isn't it supposed to be unsafe to use Indole-3-butyric acid on mature plants? I remember seeing warnings about not using it on food crops as well.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 18, 2016)

The user interface via web sounds great on these. 
https://store.heliospectra.com/collections/led-grow-lights/products/lx601


----------



## MisterBlah (May 18, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Sounds like KLN with a little vitamin B?
> Isn't it supposed to be unsafe to use Indole-3-butyric acid on mature plants? I remember seeing warnings about not using it on food crops as well.


Seeing as Rhizotonic is meant more for growth stages and not flower stages, it still makes sense by what you've heard. The feed schedule greatly reduces the concentration during the earlier stages of flower and then stops during late stages. On top of that, it's already at such a low concentration that it just doesn't have much effect.

EDIT: What I mean is that the concentration is greatly reduced during flower stages than it's effects are reduced as well.


----------



## Flowki (May 18, 2016)

Do you get separate mount fittings for the lights or just modify a normal cheap hood?.


----------



## ttystikk (May 18, 2016)

Flowki said:


> Do you get separate mount fittings for the lights or just modify a normal cheap hood?.


Who are you asking?


----------



## Afgan King (May 18, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> Seeing as Rhizotonic is meant more for growth stages and not flower stages, it still makes sense by what you've heard. The feed schedule greatly reduces the concentration during the earlier stages of flower and then stops during late stages. On top of that, it's already at such a low concentration that it just doesn't have much effect.
> 
> EDIT: What I mean is that the concentration is greatly reduced during flower stages than it's effects are reduced as well.


I use it all the way thru just low doses in flower helps keep roots bright white


----------



## MisterBlah (May 18, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I use it all the way thru just low doses in flower helps keep roots bright white


Yeah, I'm sure they do. You aren't going to notice much effect during mid/late flower though.


----------



## Afgan King (May 18, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> Yeah, I'm sure they do. You aren't going to notice much effect during mid/late flower though.


Eh idk before me and the others adjusted the schedule they had it drop off after week 5 we changed it because the plants did better don't get me wrong it's at 4.5ml/gal all the way thru but it does make a difference or atleast we believed it to be we just had healthier plants and anyone ever use axiom? Shit made monster plants with only 2 foiler sprays they were just healthier plants


----------



## ttystikk (May 18, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Eh idk before me and the others adjusted the schedule they had it drop off after week 5 we changed it because the plants did better don't get me wrong it's at 4.5ml/gal all the way thru but it does make a difference or atleast we believed it to be we just had healthier plants and anyone ever use axiom? Shit made monster plants with only 2 foiler sprays they were just healthier plants


Thanks for having us over for a visit, it was fun! Very educational! I'm more firmly convinced than ever that our skills are very complementary, and that the combination promises to be more than the sum of its parts.


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2016)

What's inside a Chillking, just in case anyone would like to know what a professional piece of HVAC equipment looks like;


----------



## Afgan King (May 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks for having us over for a visit, it was fun! Very educational! I'm more firmly convinced than ever that our skills are very complementary, and that the combination promises to be more than the sum of its parts.


No problem buddy loved having people over and hearing them ooh and ahh and be excited about running it makes me feel great I just love everyones opinions when they see it in person. Have to see if at crop to see the difference in size lol they will more than double before done


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## Afgan King (May 18, 2016)

That cuvee is gonna slay in your system gonna have a 3lb purple monster


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## pinner420 (May 19, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I use it all the way thru just low doses in flower helps keep roots bright white


It's like tobasco I put that shit on everything!


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## Flowki (May 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Who are you asking?


Anybody ;p


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## sixstring2112 (May 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> What's inside a Chillking, just in case anyone would like to know what a professional piece of HVAC equipment looks like;
> View attachment 3685465


its weird,whenever you take pics of things other than your plants they come out nice and focused,food and chillerz lol.show us those plants n cobz foo

inside a chill king...yawn


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## CannaBruh (May 19, 2016)

...I'm actually nerding out on the chillking gut shot.


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## WestDenverPioneer (May 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You've been invited up here to have a look for yourself, more than once. Now you're gonna hide behind your keyboard and be rude to someone because they brought some viable options to the table?
> 
> That's pretty cheesy, so I got some advice for you;
> 
> ...


I don't hide behind my keyboard. Likewise, I could say that you've been to Denver a few times and haven't looked me up. It isn't a contest. My intentions were always genuine to help you dial your system in, nothing more. I don't recall ever asking for anything from you, or making any demands. But at the same time I'm not going to be forced or be challenged to do a free consultation 2-hours from my home to upstage, or prove a 27-year-old King that he's wrong.

The moment the King mentioned his Daddy and his Daddy's qualifications everything else fit into place. The King may know a few things but he's certainly not a Pioneer.




Afgan King said:


> Right the 797$ difference will be made up for in the extra weight in the big picture I'll blast some more trim for ya and pay for it that way lol


WIth open talk like this - he's going to get you in trouble. Don't let this so-called King turn you into a court jester.


----------



## Afgan King (May 19, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> I don't hide behind my keyboard. Likewise, I could say that you've been to Denver a few times and haven't looked me up. It isn't a contest. My intentions were always genuine to help you dial your system in, nothing more. I don't recall ever asking for anything from you, or making any demands. But at the same time I'm not going to be forced or be challenged to do a free consultation 2-hours from my home to upstage, or prove a 27-year-old King that he's wrong.
> 
> The moment the King mentioned his Daddy and his Daddy's qualifications everything else fit into place. The King may know a few things but he's certainly not a Pioneer.
> 
> ...


Prove me wrong last time I checked you said he was switching away from hydro.....coco is drain to waste hydro but your right and whatever you say I don't need to attack anyone I'll let u keep doing that I'll just keep growing weed and you keep arguing deal?


----------



## OneHitDone (May 19, 2016)

MisterBlah said:


> Rhizotonic is a blend of a few B vitamins, as they mentioned, but also most likely has the growth hormone Indole-3-butyric acid in it, and possibly 1-Naphthaleneacetic acid. They are commonly found in rooting compounds and increase the rate of root growth in clones.


Just to get this straight - "Rhizotonic" is completely different than a "zyme" product?


----------



## Afgan King (May 19, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Just to get this straight - "Rhizotonic" is completely different than a "zyme" product?


Yeah they are different rhizotonic is used mainly in veg and some in flower but it's used as a root supplement and to be honest there is explosive root growth with it. Cannazym as far as I understand it's to help break down dead or dying roots and turn them into available sugars and minerals to be re-absorbed. It has the same vitamins to help grow roots and helps keep away pathogens/mold from the roots. Great product


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## ttystikk (May 19, 2016)

The blue cheese is plain ridiculous.


----------



## pinner420 (May 19, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Just to get this straight - "Rhizotonic" is completely different than a "zyme" product?


It's a kelp too.


----------



## MisterBlah (May 19, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Just to get this straight - "Rhizotonic" is completely different than a "zyme" product?


That is correct. It is not an enzyme product. It is not like Cannazyme or Hygrozyme or Pond Zyme or anything like that.


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## MisterBlah (May 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> What's inside a Chillking, just in case anyone would like to know what a professional piece of HVAC equipment looks like;
> View attachment 3685465


Chillking may be "professional" but they aren't on par with Daikin, Trane, or Carrier water chillers.

They are water chillers modified from roof top units or other self contained HVAC systems. They are not originally designed for use as a water chiller, and because of that, they are far less efficient than a typical water chiller. Most of them are not going to be up to code from an energy efficiency stand point. It may have an ETL sticker on it, but that's only for electrical safety. They are unlikely to meet ASHRAE 90.1 for energy efficiency.

They are cheap though.

This is not to say water chillers are bad, but just that Chillking is actually near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to quality HVAC equipment. 

I used to be a refrigeration engineer. I know that industry very well.


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## sixstring2112 (May 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The blue cheese is plain ridiculous.


You think thats good you should try my fromunda cheese,its to die for lmao.

Im just fuckin with ya lil buddy,you set em up i knock em down


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## Flowki (May 20, 2016)

Anybody can say how they mount a light fitting vert?.


----------



## ttystikk (May 20, 2016)

A little bubble gum on the wall;


----------



## Feisty1UR (May 20, 2016)

Hey, ttystikk love your style of growing. What's the difference between growing vertical compared to scrog for example... seems like a lot more hard work for a similar outcome. I'd love to try this at some point, but for my next (Second) grow - I was thinking about setting up a perpetual SoG grow. Using some of the famous SSDD by Bodhi. How would it compare in terms of harvest time and overall yield?

I should have taken more notice of it when I first joined these forums.....When I was getting compared as your doppelgänger for having the same Avatar 

You had a lot of haters in the beginning of this thread, I admire your dedication to it


----------



## ttystikk (May 20, 2016)

Feisty1UR said:


> Hey, ttystikk love your style of growing. What's the difference between growing vertical compared to scrog for example... seems like a lot more hard work for a similar outcome. I'd love to try this at some point, but for my next (Second) grow - I was thinking about setting up a perpetual SoG grow. Using some of the famous SSDD by Bodhi. How would it compare in terms of harvest time and overall yield?
> 
> I should have taken more notice of it when I first joined these forums.....When I was getting compared as your doppelgänger for having the same Avatar
> 
> You had a lot of haters in the beginning of this thread, I admire your dedication to it


This IS a SCRoG style, just vertical! No, it's not more work. No idea, I've never run that strain.


----------



## Feisty1UR (May 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This IS a SCRoG style, just vertical! No, it's not more work. No idea, I've never run that strain.


I'm not talking about that specific strain, just mentioning thats the one I'll be running this time around - I meant if you were going to grow using this method. Would you have a similar outcome comparing SoG to Vertical during the time it takes to fully mature + Yield.

Edit: Sorry I'm being ignorant, you said its exactly like a ScroG. So +- 5 months I guess?

Finished my first grow and I'll still asking ridiculous questions, I'll leave now and do my research haha


----------



## ttystikk (May 20, 2016)

Feisty1UR said:


> I'm not talking about that specific strain, just mentioning thats the one I'll be running this time around - I meant if you were going to grow using this method. Would you have a similar outcome comparing SoG to Vertical during the time it takes to fully mature + Yield.
> 
> Edit: Sorry I'm being ignorant, you said its exactly like a ScroG. So +- 5 months I guess?
> 
> Finished my first grow and I'll still asking ridiculous questions, I'll leave now and do my research haha


The two approaches take about the same time.


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## pop22 (May 23, 2016)

I've asked this 100 times, and still haven't seemed to ask it right, because NO ONE has ever given an answer based on science......

So, maybe you can explain to me just how "flushing" is suppose to work. My very basic understanding of how a plant takes in, stores, and uses nutrients says, flushing is bullshit and a total waste of time and damaging to a plant right when it is at its peak. You remove nothing but needed sugars right when the plant needs them.
I've heard a lot of anecdotal " evidence", none of which proves anything.




Afgan King said:


> The only flush involved is feeding ph'd water for the whole week before crop. I feed every 3-4 days and they drink about 3-3.5 gallons Everytime I feed into my pots so a total of 6-7gallons will be used over the week but it's basically still a hydro system so that last week cleans em nicely and gets you a great fade


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## ttystikk (May 23, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I've asked this 100 times, and still haven't seemed to ask it right, because NO ONE has ever given an answer based on science......
> 
> So, maybe you can explain to me just how "flushing" is suppose to work. My very basic understanding of how a plant takes in, stores, and uses nutrients says, flushing is bullshit and a total waste of time and damaging to a plant right when it is at its peak. You remove nothing but needed sugars right when the plant needs them.
> I've heard a lot of anecdotal " evidence", none of which proves anything.


I dial my nutrient strength back through the last two weeks of bloom, but never to zero. 

My peak under 860W CDM lamps is around 2.0 EC. By the time 56 days have gone by however, I've brought it down to 1.3-1.4.


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## pop22 (May 23, 2016)

I can understand that, it at least seems makes sense.



ttystikk said:


> I dial my nutrient strength back through the last two weeks of bloom, but never to zero.
> 
> My peak under 860W CDM lamps is around 2.0 EC. By the time 56 days have gone by however, I've brought it down to 1.3-1.4.


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## ttystikk (May 23, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I can understand that, it at least seems makes sense.


What's the science? Excellent question! 

While we're working that out, I've seen places that say to run pH high through bloom and bring it down at finish- and I've seen the reverse, which is what I do; 

Start day one of bloom at pH 5.6, let the target creep up to 6.0 about day 28, then let it creep up to 6.5 by day 56.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 23, 2016)

Im growing in an organic media (soil) similar to no till, flushing is bullshit. The plant will uptake what it needs, when it needs it. If you are heavily salting things up, flushing only aids in flushing out those salts building up in the media, its not flushing the fucking plant out......


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## TheChemist77 (May 24, 2016)

i get my ph to 5.6 every time i clean n change the rez.. after a few days ph slowly rises,, i wait till 6.3 then top off or change rez and get ph back to 5.6.. so my ph never goes above 6.3,never below 5.5, but its never the same for very long either.. as for flushing, ive found anything beyond 7 days of flush loses yield,, i keep nutes on till buds are swollen, maybe done,,, then do a 3-5 day flush of plain ph balanced water or gh kleen...most of the other caregivers i know do NO flush at all.. if running pure organics no flush is needed flushing is for getting rid of chemicals.. wright??? ty, is letting that ph costantly drift ok? there is no way i can find to keep a steady ph over a week or 2 without using ph up or down???


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## ttystikk (May 24, 2016)

Ph drift is fine, even desirable. I never flush with water, the lowest my ladies ever see is 1.2 EC


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## SomeGuy (May 24, 2016)

I've not ph tested my res. But roots are white and healthy... I'm gonna add some nutes to the blu balz rez and see how it.goes. Only one fading right now. It's a heavy eater apparently.


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## Frajola (May 24, 2016)

tystikk said:


> Hmmm. No one wants to know anything about water chilling, or growing three times as much product in a given space, yet still using less than half the power?


yes I do ! where ? How?
I dug that out from 2014 from tty, lol


----------



## OneHitDone (May 24, 2016)

Feisty1UR said:


> I'm not talking about that specific strain, just mentioning thats the one I'll be running this time around - I meant if you were going to grow using this method. Would you have a similar outcome comparing SoG to Vertical during the time it takes to fully mature + Yield.
> 
> Edit: Sorry I'm being ignorant, you said its exactly like a ScroG. So +- 5 months I guess?
> 
> Finished my first grow and I'll still asking ridiculous questions, I'll leave now and do my research haha


It depends on how fast of a driver you are:
The vert scrog is similar to horizontal scrog except you can fit 4 of them in the same floor space

In 4-8 weeks veg you should have something like this
 

Then add your 8 week flower time so somewhere around 4 months


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## ttystikk (May 25, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> It depends on how fast of a driver you are:
> The vert scrog is similar to horizontal scrog except you can fit 4 of them in the same floor space
> 
> In 4-8 weeks veg you should have something like this
> ...


Mine go 5 months because they need to fill a six foot tall trellis and yield up to two pounds apiece (best so far).


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## ttystikk (May 25, 2016)

Frajola said:


> yes I do ! where ? How?
> I dug that out from 2014 from tty, lol


Yep, first page of this thread. I've learned a lot since then, both in terms of what to do and what not to.


----------



## OneHitDone (May 25, 2016)

How are your coco vegging plants stacking up compared to what you are used to seeing in DWC?


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## ttystikk (May 25, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> How are your coco vegging plants stacking up compared to what you are used to seeing in DWC?


My early veg stages are in ebb n flood tables, so not true RDWC. The girls in coco are growing as fast or faster, it seems due to the buffering effect of the substrate. Much less effort needed to maintain nutrient balance, as well.


----------



## TheChemist77 (May 25, 2016)

thanks, everything seems to be going well. havnt put up pix in a wile but this run may be my biggest yield yet..40 plants packed on the 4x6 table under 2 315's .each plant in 4 inch rock wool block, placed into a 6 inch net pot then covered with grow rocks,,open table no cover... i put the lamps as high as i could wright off the bat, just let the plants grow to them, im at week 4 now i think and plants are about 2 feet from lamps..closer than id like but nothing i can do till i can figure out how to lower the table.. next run i hope to keep a 3ft distance from canopy the hole way...


----------



## TheChemist77 (May 25, 2016)

ty your shit always looking good.. u still run any bubble gum? ive now ran 17 different strains this year and the th seeds bubble gum is still my best yield and the best crystal producer by far,,its like white widow, just covered in trycks.. planted 2 spliff blue berries and 3 black skull 5.0 fems that are a few weeks into bloom..i was hoping one would compete with the gum,,dont think its happening..ever tried black skull seeds? any info on them ? im just cutting back on strains, getting rid of big bomb, viking,popcorn, and island sweet skunk and keeping incredible bulk and bubble gum.. took clones off the blue berries and 5.0's but need more time to see how they go..still waiting to pop the budzilla's


----------



## ttystikk (May 25, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> ty your shit always looking good.. u still run any bubble gum? ive now ran 17 different strains this year and the th seeds bubble gum is still my best yield and the best crystal producer by far,,its like white widow, just covered in trycks.. planted 2 spliff blue berries and 3 black skull 5.0 fems that are a few weeks into bloom..i was hoping one would compete with the gum,,dont think its happening..ever tried black skull seeds? any info on them ? im just cutting back on strains, getting rid of big bomb, viking,popcorn, and island sweet skunk and keeping incredible bulk and bubble gum.. took clones off the blue berries and 5.0's but need more time to see how they go..still waiting to pop the budzilla's


Your bubblegum is different than mine, I think.


----------



## DesertGrow89 (May 25, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> thanks, everything seems to be going well. havnt put up pix in a wile but this run may be my biggest yield yet..40 plants packed on the 4x6 table under 2 315's .each plant in 4 inch rock wool block, placed into a 6 inch net pot then covered with grow rocks,,open table no cover... i put the lamps as high as i could wright off the bat, just let the plants grow to them, im at week 4 now i think and plants are about 2 feet from lamps..closer than id like but nothing i can do till i can figure out how to lower the table.. next run i hope to keep a 3ft distance from canopy the hole way...


Why do you plan on keeping them three feet away? Do you know what the intensity is at three feet?


----------



## ttystikk (May 25, 2016)

This is the second plant of Blue Cheese we've run. Still working on the yield, but the buds are looking good;


----------



## Lucky Luke (May 25, 2016)

O wow.....yummo!


----------



## pookat (May 25, 2016)

For a little green man, you sure make a good Bud...


----------



## Alaric (May 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This is the second plant of Blue Cheese we've run. Still working on the yield, but the buds are looking good;
> View attachment 3691026


Show off


----------



## ttystikk (May 25, 2016)

pookat said:


> For a little green man, you sure make a good Bud...


It's either this or an endless battle against the dark forces of the Empire. 

Ok, maybe both; I post in the politics section a lot too, lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 25, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> O wow.....yummo!





Alaric said:


> Show off





pookat said:


> For a little green man, you sure make a good Bud...


Thank you guys, very much!


----------



## pookat (May 25, 2016)

Well i can see your good at this.
As for the dark Forces....Still trying to see 'em all


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 25, 2016)

RM3 said:


> wow $800, I spend about $3 a grow


I prefer organic. Most everything is free once you get it setup. After a few runs it takes very little to maintain the soil.

I don't have anything personal against synthetics. My next run may be synthetic for documentation reasons.

I know that it poses problems running organic on a commercial level. Once setup I don't think it would take much to maintain.

I think it boils down to what a person is comfortable with and happy using.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This is the second plant of Blue Cheese we've run. Still working on the yield, but the buds are looking good;
> View attachment 3691026


I'd like to swim in a pool of that!


----------



## OneHitDone (May 25, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I prefer organic. Most everything is free once you get it setup. After a few runs it takes very little to maintain the soil.
> 
> I don't have anything personal against synthetics. My next run may be synthetic for documentation reasons.
> 
> ...


I like the idea of a self-sustained organic program where everything is recycled on site. Not really a reality for most of us.
And #1 synthetic = consistency


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 25, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> I like the idea of a self-sustained organic program where everything is recycled on site. Not really a reality for most of us.
> And #1 synthetic = consistency


I went no till on my outdoor veggie garden.


----------



## Frajola (May 25, 2016)

tystikk said:


> The rest of the setup may deserve mention, as well; I cool a 16kW op with only four Tons of water chilling- and most of the time I only need half that much! Those who are trying to cool their op more efficiently or effectively, drop me a line, I have hundreds of tips to help.
> 
> I run a perpetual op, several stages from clones to chop. This means I build spaces customized around the needs of specific segments of the plant's life cycle, and you can guess the results.
> 
> ...


High ty,
by any chance do u have any draft about ur chilling system... or pics.... u know things around here r getting worrisome, ac at full blast room @ 84f.... I don't want to see the summer, or better saying I won't see the summer, what to do ?? " I cool a 16kW op with only four Tons of water chilling- and most of the time I only need half that much! Those who are trying to cool their op more efficiently or effectively, drop me a line, I have hundreds of tips to help." 
Dhanks,
peace


----------



## ttystikk (May 25, 2016)

Frajola said:


> High ty,
> by any chance do u have any draft about ur chilling system... or pics.... u know things around here r getting worrisome, ac at full blast room @ 84f.... I don't want to see the summer, or better saying I won't see the summer, what to do ?? " I cool a 16kW op with only four Tons of water chilling- and most of the time I only need half that much! Those who are trying to cool their op more efficiently or effectively, drop me a line, I have hundreds of tips to help."
> Dhanks,
> peace


Ok, so water cooling your whole op means you need a sizeable chiller; fortunately, they generally get more efficient the larger you go. You'll need water lines to carry water to and from the equipment it services. You'll need a water storage tank and circulation pump to move the water around. 

I split my op into two parts for bloom, on a flip style schedule. Now, I only need to cool half at a time, plus veg. 

Water chilling allows me to cool everything all the time, so it cools no matter which half of the lights are running. 

Water cooled air handlers are placed in the spaces to be cooled and controlled via thermostat, just like normal. These being the air temperature down into the same range as the cooling water running through them, because they're just radiators with fans to blow air through them. 

If the water temp in the cooling system is cool enough, it will drop the air temperature below its dewpoint, thus pulling moisture from the air. This is HALF the dehumidification cycle; the other half being heat to warm the air back up and reduce RH from the 100% it is by definition at dewpoint. During the daytime, that heat comes from the lights. 

At night, you can add heat as needed. One very special feature of the new chiller I just purchased is that it takes the heat removed from the cooling circuit and instead of just blowing it out into the outside air, it heats a separate hot water circuit- which can then be used for everything from nighttime heating, dehuey, domestic heat, hot water, etc. 

As you've probably guessed, this is not a quick setup, nor is it at its best if it needs to be portable. It is highly efficient and flexible, but it's really meant for permanent installation, like your home. 

Other stuff the system can cool includes your RDWC, and there are even some water cooled lighting options now coming onto the market. Then of course you can cool your home in the summer with it, as well!


----------



## Frajola (May 26, 2016)

sdf said:


> i know haha, if haters are following you around the web you must be doing something right
> I shall rate this a 5* too


300% right lol,
im getting into the vert 4 the next run.
, peace


----------



## Frajola (May 28, 2016)

tystikk said:


> Yup. No client got anyone near that. It's MY job to induce error by pushing the limits.


life is tough, huh. lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 28, 2016)

Frajola said:


> life is tough, huh. lol


Only on page 6? You got some catching up to do! Lol


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 30, 2016)

Hey ttystikk, shit my rdwc seedlings are no more seedlings haha. There now approaching 1m tall and I am about to top them. I've still got another 2.5 weeks min before my flower tent Is free and they are getting massive. How often do you top and do you top each branch. 

I'll chuck a photo later when I'm down.


----------



## ttystikk (May 30, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey ttystikk, shit my rdwc seedlings are no more seedlings haha. There now approaching 1m tall and I am about to top them. I've still got another 2.5 weeks min before my flower tent Is free and they are getting massive. How often do you top and do you top each branch.
> 
> I'll chuck a photo later when I'm down.


Top them at the meter mark if that feels right to you, based on the shape of the growroom and vertical space available. Go for 2/3 of the height with the main stem. Maristems are the branches coming from the main stalk. Limit their number to about a half dozen. Pin them all on the trellis, and yes I do top the maristems if they run off their trellis.


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Top them at the meter mark if that feels right to you, based on the shape of the growroom and vertical space available. Go for 2/3 of the height with the main stem. Maristems are the branches coming from the main stalk. Limit their number to about a half dozen. Pin them all on the trellis, and yes I do top the maristems if they run off their trellis.


Cheers. Here's a shot, I moved the big ones on the left across from the right as they were growing faster directly under the lamp. Now the other ones can catch up lol. 

Anyway I havnt topped yet. 2/3 high is still a little way away, but I'm anxious that these are going to be massive in 2.5-3 weeks . 

I can already see if everything else comes together and goes as well as it has so far, this is certainly going to be my biggest grow ever. Maybe apart from some big outdoors.
And lastly cheers ttystikk for helping me along the way, you are a real credit amongst others on this site helping people.


----------



## Frajola (May 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Shit grows. Shit grows up. Update complete.
> 
> View attachment 3227718 View attachment 3227720


I know I know Im slow , but Im enjoying the whole thing u know , its kind of mixed feelings that all this reading triggers, actually makes u think in a different ways to get there according w our space , temps, rh, or whatever is involved in it. Ty u r a freak , lol u r cooking my brain,lol. Thanks to be here.
peace.


----------



## Frajola (May 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3243590


1 bud right yeah right duh
peace


----------



## ttystikk (May 30, 2016)

Frajola said:


> 1 bud right yeah right duh
> peace


Lol keep reading, it's kinda fun to see what's catching your eye as you go thru it


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Top them at the meter mark if that feels right to you, based on the shape of the growroom and vertical space available. Go for 2/3 of the height with the main stem. Maristems are the branches coming from the main stalk. Limit their number to about a half dozen. Pin them all on the trellis, and yes I do top the maristems if they run off their trellis.


Hey ttystikk, which maristems do you keep, the bottom ones or do you just top so there is only 6 maristems


----------



## ttystikk (May 31, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey ttystikk, which maristems do you keep, the bottom ones or do you just top so there is only 6 maristems


I don't like the buttoms generally because they're spindly. I like them to be between the middle and the top of the main stem. It's also helpful to keep the ones that stay in a plane with one another, like a menorah.


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't like the buttoms generally because they're spindly. I like them to be between the middle and the top of the main stem. It's also helpful to keep the ones that stay in a plane with one another, like a menorah.


Cheers. That makes sense and the bottom ones seem to have a massive gap between the first node. I guess these would be good for cloning.


----------



## Alaric (May 31, 2016)

High tyy?

Here's a link for "clip twist lock wire ties".

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Clip-twist-lock-wire-ties_221809791.html

A little part I liked for training plants to a screen trellis.

The white made them much easier to locate.

About 3 cents each (from memory)

A~~~


----------



## ttystikk (May 31, 2016)

Alaric said:


> High tyy?
> 
> Here's a link for "clip twist lock wire ties".
> 
> ...


Nice! And a lot less hassle than vine clips, too!


----------



## OneHitDone (Jun 2, 2016)

only1realhigh said:


> see if I can get a pic
> View attachment 3180225 View attachment 3180226
> Okay this is my way/ system that I built. A personal 2ft tall screen that is 6ft long wrapped around a steel rod frame I made that uses 3 plants. Originally I used a 400watt HPS to light it up, now I am going to use this LED tower.
> View attachment 3180227
> ...


How did this crazy giant corn cob led end up performing?


----------



## Alaric (Jun 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Nice! And a lot less hassle than vine clips, too!


Better (easier) than using double sided velcro tape also.

One application for those vine clips I am very pleased with.

 

Holding the spray line in position and easy enough to unlatch.

Let me know how you like those flip clips (if you ever do).

A~~~


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 3, 2016)

Day 42 in bloom, Hillbilly is getting a lil defoliation;


----------



## Alaric (Jun 3, 2016)

R u still using those 27 gal totes?

Looking forward to pics at chop time.

A~~~


----------



## redi jedi (Jun 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Day 42 in bloom, Hillbilly is getting a lil defoliation;
> View attachment 3698827


How long are you vegging? The stalk on that bitch is a weapon!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 3, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> How long are you vegging? The stalk on that bitch is a weapon!


Three months from fresh cutting.

Yeah, we whittle them into punjee sticks for added home security.

Give the stalks to the neighborhood kids for pick up stick ball games. 

Ever heard of ye Olde English law of the rule of thumb? Lol


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 3, 2016)

Alaric said:


> R u still using those 27 gal totes?
> 
> Looking forward to pics at chop time.
> 
> A~~~


For the moment. Soon they'll be in 5 gallon buckets of Tupur. Those buckets will drop into the same holes in the tub lids and I'm expecting the roots to follow excess water, SIPS/hempy style.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Jun 3, 2016)

Hows that trunk!!! Nice work


----------



## Frajola (Jun 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> LOL, I seem to have a way of doing that to people!


Icame to a conclusion that i don't have a set up yet, lol.....


----------



## OneHitDone (Jun 4, 2016)

Hey @ttystikk, did your camera break when you started using cobs or what?
Where some pics of the new setup vegging with the coco?


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 4, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Hey @ttystikk, did your camera break when you started using cobs or what?
> Where some pics of the new setup vegging with the coco?


The girls in coco haven't gotten to bloom yet.


----------



## OneHitDone (Jun 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The girls in coco haven't gotten to bloom yet.


That's what we want to see


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 4, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> That's what we want to see


Patience, padawan.... while I lol @ your screen name!


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (Jun 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ever heard of ye Olde English law of the rule of thumb? Lol


But what if you have a really big wife and a small thumb? Every rule should have exceptions.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 4, 2016)

Larry {the} Gardener said:


> But what if you have a really big wife and a small thumb? Every rule should have exceptions.


Take said thumb, reach way around your backside.... lol jk!

I'd say you're proper fucked, mate-


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Jun 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Day 42 in bloom, Hillbilly is getting a lil defoliation;
> View attachment 3698827


This is so cool! I need to try this soon...
Louisville slugger stem there holy crap


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (Jun 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Take said thumb, reach way around your backside.... lol jk!
> 
> I'd say you're proper fucked, mate-


She's a good girl. I've never had to use a stick on her, no matter the size.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 4, 2016)

Larry {the} Gardener said:


> She's a good girl. I've never had to use a stick on her, no matter the size.


Sorry to hear that. I use my stick all the time!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 4, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> This is so cool! I need to try this soon...
> Louisville slugger stem there holy crap


Expecting over 2 pounds from that one.


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (Jun 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sorry to hear that. I use my stick all the time!


We may not be talking about the same stick.


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Jun 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Expecting over 2 pounds from that one.


Holy hell, that's a bunch. I bet I've puffed your bud before. 
How many days for the hillbilly?


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 4, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> Holy hell, that's a bunch. I bet I've puffed your bud before.
> How many days for the hillbilly?


She likes to go a bit long, due to her moonshine haze roots. I get great results around 9 to 9 1/2 weeks.

How would that have happened? Not doubting, just curious.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 4, 2016)

Larry {the} Gardener said:


> We may not be talking about the same stick.


No, Sir. I'm the only one who gets to use mine.


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (Jun 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No, Sir. I'm the only one who gets to use mine.


But is it bigger around than your thumb? You don't want to be breaking Ye Olde English Law.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 4, 2016)

Larry {the} Gardener said:


> But is it bigger around than your thumb? You don't want to be breaking Ye Olde English Law.


An old outlaw like me knows better than to incriminate himself.


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Jun 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> She likes to go a bit long, due to her moonshine haze roots. I get great results around 9 to 9 1/2 weeks.
> 
> How would that have happened? Not doubting, just curious.


Well, because I get to partake in the best cannabis we can get from CO, here in MN, so there's a chance it is from you because you have quantity as well...


----------



## Toohighmf (Jun 5, 2016)

I have painstakingly read "most" of this thread. very impressive! I do have 1 question. obviously vert growing is the best way to maximize GPW, and the world is round, not flat, giving you 2-3x the space.. AWESOME. Why on earth are you vegging just a few trees for MANY months on end, when you could be cutting your veg times to about 1/8th of what you're currently running by rocking SOG? The reason I ask, is you seem like an extremely logical mind who definitely thinks out the box, based on your comments in my LED thread. Logic to me is the missing link in the gram per watt calculation, which is time..
If you get 3lbs per light but it takes 6 months, what good is it, when you can take down 3 per light 3x in that same amount of time??? I'm not trying to play devils advocate or throw a monkey wrench in your game. I'm just curious.


----------



## OneHitDone (Jun 5, 2016)

Toohighmf said:


> I have painstakingly read "most" of this thread. very impressive! I do have 1 question. obviously vert growing is the best way to maximize GPW, and the world is round, not flat, giving you 2-3x the space.. AWESOME. Why on earth are you vegging just a few trees for MANY months on end, when you could be cutting your veg times to about 1/8th of what you're currently running by rocking SOG? The reason I ask, is you seem like an extremely logical mind who definitely thinks out the box, based on your comments in my LED thread. Logic to me is the missing link in the gram per watt calculation, which is time..
> If you get 3lbs per light but it takes 6 months, what good is it, when you can take down 3 per light 3x in that same amount of time??? I'm not trying to play devils advocate or throw a monkey wrench in your game. I'm just curious.


For most it is plant count. But you you are not concerned with that Rock On!!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 5, 2016)

Toohighmf said:


> I have painstakingly read "most" of this thread. very impressive! I do have 1 question. obviously vert growing is the best way to maximize GPW, and the world is round, not flat, giving you 2-3x the space.. AWESOME. Why on earth are you vegging just a few trees for MANY months on end, when you could be cutting your veg times to about 1/8th of what you're currently running by rocking SOG? The reason I ask, is you seem like an extremely logical mind who definitely thinks out the box, based on your comments in my LED thread. Logic to me is the missing link in the gram per watt calculation, which is time..
> If you get 3lbs per light but it takes 6 months, what good is it, when you can take down 3 per light 3x in that same amount of time??? I'm not trying to play devils advocate or throw a monkey wrench in your game. I'm just curious.


The miracles of staging answer that question easily enough. 

It is a plant count tactic. One certainly can, and many do run dozens or hundreds of plants in tiers. On the other hand, this is a low effort approach, needing less hands on time.


----------



## Toohighmf (Jun 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The miracles of staging answer that question easily enough.
> 
> It is a plant count tactic. One certainly can, and many do run dozens or hundreds of plants in tiers. On the other hand, this is a low effort approach, needing less hands on time.


I can live with that. thanks!


----------



## PKHydro (Jun 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The miracles of staging answer that question easily enough.
> 
> It is a plant count tactic. One certainly can, and many do run dozens or hundreds of plants in tiers. On the other hand, this is a low effort approach, needing less hands on time.


Perfect response.


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Jun 8, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> Well, because I get to partake in the best cannabis we can get from CO, here in MN, so there's a chance it is from you because you have quantity as well...


That's so far-reaching and ridiculous. If you are bragging about quality cannabis available in MN, it came from northern CA, not from CO.


----------



## rocknratm (Jun 8, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> That's so far-reaching and ridiculous. If you are bragging about quality cannabis available in MN, it came from northern CA, not from CO.


or it came from my basement.


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Jun 8, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> That's so far-reaching and ridiculous. If you are bragging about quality cannabis available in MN, it came from northern CA, not from CO.


Ok, I know 100% its from CO.
SO... FUCK OFF


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Jun 8, 2016)

rocknratm said:


> or it came from my basement.


Lol, maybe if we picked up zips


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 8, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> Lol, maybe if we picked up zips


These three nugs of Blue Cheese are almost that much;


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Jun 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> These three nugs of Blue Cheese are almost that much;
> View attachment 3703050


Barney's?


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 8, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Barney's?


No clue, I was told it's blue dream x cheese.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Jun 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No clue, I was told it's blue dream x cheese.


Ah gotcha. I got a Barney's Blue Cheese seedling going and she's the dankest plant in the veg tent lol......... in the yard last week when I up potted from solo cups I had to bring her in quick, windy day outside and dank plant not good for being stealth lol......


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Jun 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> These three nugs of Blue Cheese are almost that much;
> View attachment 3703050


Lol nice!


----------



## rocknratm (Jun 9, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> Ok, I know 100% its from CO.
> SO... FUCK OFF


who cares where its from if its good. Yur right about the zip thing I have never grown any tangible weight.
I for one wont support the import economy for cannabis. I totally could and make some paper.
If only I could grow outdoors.... Id do a huge cbd crop this year and make meds to last til next season. Can only dream.

I know for a fact big shipments come in from CO. twenty five hundred for elbows and such. And the quality is actually pretty good. Nothing like homegrown small batch tho. You lose taste and smell when shipping vac seeled. Plus I dont think weed should be commodified like other things. Capitalism tends to ruin what good and right in even the best of things.... Just my opinion.

Anyway sorry TTY for the thread jack. Your killing it as always


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Jun 9, 2016)

rocknratm said:


> who cares where its from if its good. Yur right about the zip thing I have never grown any tangible weight.
> I for one wont support the import economy for cannabis. I totally could and make some paper.
> If only I could grow outdoors.... Id do a huge cbd crop this year and make meds to last til next season. Can only dream.
> 
> ...


Word to that.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 9, 2016)

rocknratm said:


> who cares where its from if its good. Yur right about the zip thing I have never grown any tangible weight.
> I for one wont support the import economy for cannabis. I totally could and make some paper.
> If only I could grow outdoors.... Id do a huge cbd crop this year and make meds to last til next season. Can only dream.
> 
> ...


Cannabis is already a commodity; you even named its price. 

Like many commodities, cannabis comes in many grades. The market will sort out what grades are the most relevant.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 9, 2016)

Fresh pics of the COB LED rack, day 48;


----------



## Growdict (Jun 9, 2016)

those are looking pretty ripe already at day 48


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Jun 9, 2016)

Beautiful


----------



## a mongo frog (Jun 9, 2016)

@ttystikk. Im not understanding the ERAD machines. I don't understand when then say their doing this to "drivers pre paid cards". I ask you this cuz you seem to research everything. When you get some time can you explain in regular terms.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jun 9, 2016)

@ttystikk. Im not understanding the ERAD machines. I don't understand when then say their doing this to "drivers pre paid cards". I ask you this cuz you seem to research everything. When you get some time can you explain in regular terms.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 9, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> @ttystikk. Im not understanding the ERAD machines. I don't understand when then say their doing this to "drivers pre paid cards". I ask you this cuz you seem to research everything. When you get some time can you explain in regular terms.


Don't know anything about it.


----------



## PurpletrainWrecker (Jun 9, 2016)

Man you should of cleaned up lots of that larf , i think that is what is going to hurt your yields once dried you be lucky to hit 2 pounds


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 9, 2016)

PurpletrainWrecker said:


> Man you should of cleaned up lots of that larf , i think that is what is going to hurt your yields once dried you be lucky to hit 2 pounds


We'll see. There's another hillbilly in the same run with bigger colas, but fewer of them.


----------



## PurpletrainWrecker (Jun 9, 2016)

Hey sorry did not mean to bash your grow its just what i am observing and from prior experience in the same boat them lower buds just drained the fuck out of my grow what looked like a 2 - 3 pound plant ended up being 3/4 dry and bagged
To this day i still think weed ghosts stole some weed cause it sure looked like lots on the table only to go to it 2 days later and think Where the fuck did it all go


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 10, 2016)

PurpletrainWrecker said:


> Hey sorry did not mean to bash your grow its just what i am observing and from prior experience in the same boat them lower buds just drained the fuck out of my grow what looked like a 2 - 3 pound plant ended up being 3/4 dry and bagged
> To this day i still think weed ghosts stole some weed cause it sure looked like lots on the table only to go to it 2 days later and think Where the fuck did it all go


Vertical can look different. Keep in mind the bottom of the plant is getting as much light as the top. Plus it's tough to get a handle on the scale of it; that plant is six full feet tall from the top of its netpot. COB LED is also working in my favor, the buds it grows are tighter, harder and frostier. What's not to love? Lol


----------



## WestDenverPioneer (Jun 11, 2016)

PurpletrainWrecker said:


> Where the fuck did it all go


Less is more. Pruning to control the plant will (usually) give a better result.

Tittysticks method is scaled larger, but takes longer. Most of the comments on yield are comparing the longer grow time to harvest vs his total yield.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 11, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> Less is more. Pruning to control the plant will (usually) give a better result.
> 
> Tittysticks method is scaled larger, but takes longer. Most of the comments on yield are comparing the longer grow time to harvest vs his total yield.


Quite so. 

Yet, the only part that takes longer is veg- and even then, only once; once you have your pipeline of stages filled, things crank out at the rate of your staging, which depending on how many stages you want to run can be anything, and indeed can be much shorter than the two weeks it takes to clone more plants!


----------



## Og Kushman (Jun 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fresh pics of the COB LED rack, day 48;
> View attachment 3703834 View attachment 3703833


Why is this technique not called "WoW" Wall of weed.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 15, 2016)

Og Kushman said:


> Why is this technique not called "WoW" Wall of weed.


Thank you! 

Good artists borrow, great artists steal, lol


----------



## zep_lover (Jun 15, 2016)

Og Kushman said:


> Why is this technique not called "WoW" Wall of weed.


google wall of weed.there is a great thread on icmag with that name!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 15, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> google wall of weed.there is a great thread on icmag with that name!


THAT'S why it sounded familiar!


----------



## sixstring2112 (Jun 17, 2016)

yeah so without clusterfuckin that other thread i thought i would post in here.these both went from t5 to gavita.under the t5 they are within 2 inches of the tubes.under gavita i have them about 24 to 30 in away.my point is the intensity prob aint what has them messed up unless you have those cobs so close they are cooking them,like 6 to 12 in away?
 

thats ^^^8 days in from t5 and shes sitting under a cluster of 3 gavita set at 825w

 

same gig here,this plant prob has more light than any other i have grown in a long time lol.like about 80w per sq ft haha,my shop is low on plants right now so i just give her some extra space.but if i turn off too many lamps ill have hot spots .
i do see growing plants under the mars panel is quite a change up,those plants need alot more calmag than i have ever used on my stuff.it took me a few runs to figure out why the plants under led always looked hungry. im guessing your cobs are too close or the plants dont like what they are being fed under those lights.different spectrums different food needs type of thing.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> yeah so without clusterfuckin that other thread i thought i would post in here.these both went from t5 to gavita.under the t5 they are within 2 inches of the tubes.under gavita i have them about 24 to 30 in away.my point is the intensity prob aint what has them messed up unless you have those cobs so close they are cooking them,like 6 to 12 in away?
> View attachment 3710089
> 
> thats ^^^8 days in from t5 and shes sitting under a cluster of 3 gavita set at 825w
> ...


The feed never changes and the plants put out green shoots after. Maybe it's temperature shock. They go from 80s to low 70s.

200W per panel to 900W of much more efficient lighting = 6 to 10 times more light. 

The COBS are 18-24" from the plants. 

The plants that did the best were in front of modules that had problems and so were shut off for a week or two right at the beginning of bloom. It's this data point that leads me to believe I'm shocking them.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jun 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The feed never changes and the plants put out green shoots after. Maybe it's temperature shock. They go from 80s to low 70s.
> 
> 200W per panel to 900W of much more efficient lighting = 6 to 10 times more light.
> 
> ...


Having seen those plants in person leads me to agree with you.


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Jun 17, 2016)

You mentioned you're vegging in an ebb and flow system can ya show us some pics?


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> You mentioned you're vegging in an ebb and flow system can ya show us some pics?


Wellllllllll... not anymore? Lol I'm switching to coco so since such things have to start at the beginning, I'm not running ebb n flood anymore.

The problem happens between prebloom veg and bloom- and both of those stages are actually RDWC. They too will switch to coco as the youngsters grow up and move thru the system. 

The first nutes they get in bloom are the very same veg nutes they've gotten all along. A week or two in they get a nute change which starts to shade towards a bloom recipe. By then, they've already shown shock.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2016)

Math on the transition problem from veg to bloom;

In prebloom veg;
330W x 4 = 1320W/6 panels = 220W x 38% PAR efficiency = 84 PAR Watts per trellis panel.

In bloom;
225W x 4 = 900W per panel x .56 PAR efficiency = 504 PAR Watts per panel.

504/84= 6x increase in PAR light from one to the next. Seems like an awful lot, which might explain what the plants are doing and when they're doing it.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2016)

Master Kush, almost 70 days, awaiting chop;


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2016)

Shots of the COB LED rack today, day 56;


----------



## Netherfly (Jun 17, 2016)

Maiiin @ttystikk the more i look at your topic the more i feel like tilting my panel


----------



## OneHitDone (Jun 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Wellllllllll... not anymore? Lol I'm switching to coco so since such things have to start at the beginning, I'm not running ebb n flood anymore.
> 
> The problem happens between prebloom veg and bloom- and both of those stages are actually RDWC. They too will switch to coco as the youngsters grow up and move thru the system.
> 
> The first nutes they get in bloom are the very same veg nutes they've gotten all along. A week or two in they get a nute change which starts to shade towards a bloom recipe. By then, they've already shown shock.


I call out the big dip around 480nm


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> I call out the big dip around 480nm


As long as you don't call out the big dip around 6'


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2016)

Netherfly said:


> Maiiin @ttystikk the more i look at your topic the more i feel like tilting my panel


Do it! We need to get past the idea that we're merely replicating Mother Nature indoors; the environment is not the same and so different approaches are called for. 

The advantages of vertical over flatlander style are many. An incomplete list; 
Smaller footprint
Easier to ventilate
Eliminate reflectors and their attendant efficiency losses
Easier to work with, train and manage
Plants like to grow UP!


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jun 17, 2016)

I think I will do the vertical 864 watt t5 grow with this run. The seeds are planted.


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Jun 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Shots of the COB LED rack today, day 56;
> View attachment 3710474 View attachment 3710475


Jesus that's a Shitload of grass


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I think I will do the vertical 864 watt t5 grow with this run. The seeds are planted.


Awesome! Can't wait to see your setup!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> Jesus that's a Shitload of grass


This is a laboratory facility, built for the express purpose of developing new techniques and technologies to grow plants indoors more efficiently.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 18, 2016)

My invention is working; the cloner is resting in a tub full of water, with a copper coil underneath it. Cold circuit water passes through the copper coil and cools the water in the tub, which then cools the cloner.

Tub water temp and peek of copper coil;
 

Temp of water inside the cloner;


----------



## OneHitDone (Jun 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My invention is working; the cloner is resting in a tub full of water, with a copper coil underneath it. Cold circuit water passes through the copper coil and cools the water in the tub, which then cools the cloner.
> 
> Tub water temp and peek of copper coil;
> View attachment 3711622
> ...


Why do you want your cloner water so cold?


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 19, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Why do you want your cloner water so cold?


68 might be a touch cold, I'm aiming for 71F. OTOH, excess cooling capacity isn't a bad thing! 

The air temp is plenty warm, that might help. 

Don't be raining on my party, I'm just thrilled it works!


----------



## SomeGuy (Jun 19, 2016)

The true test of function comes with clones!!

I hope you have better luck man. Cloning issues suck. 

I'm very happy with how my experiment performed this round btw. Sips for the win. Lol


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 19, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> The true test of function comes with clones!!
> 
> I hope you have better luck man. Cloning issues suck.
> 
> I'm very happy with how my experiment performed this round btw. Sips for the win. Lol


That's today.


----------



## Alaric (Jun 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Don't be raining on my party, I'm just thrilled it works!


Bravo, congrats------"it works."

I've had the same idea about you nute cooling design ------but never tried it.

If you did a cost analysis comparing your present design using one big chiller and the coils vs separate smaller chillers----if so, what you find out?

I've always had the best strike rate at ~75F.

A~~~


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 19, 2016)

Alaric said:


> Bravo, congrats------"it works."
> 
> I've had the same idea about you nute cooling design ------but never tried it.
> 
> ...


Yes, a multitude of small chillers is far more expensive than one big one. 

There are many reasons for this, all of which add up to saving money by reducing needed capacity, improving efficiency and/or reducing maintenance and repairs. 

I can bore you to death with details, lol


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 19, 2016)

Alaric said:


> I've always had the best strike rate at ~75F.
> 
> A~~~


I'm shooting for 71-75F, so now I can begin mitigating the excessive heat transfer, lol


----------



## m4s73r (Jun 19, 2016)

Had to spend a little bit catching up from pg 114. Looking good Tty,


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 19, 2016)

There's just no way I'm the only one thinking what I'm thinking; 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/20/341884706/why-vegetables-get-freakish-in-the-land-of-the-midnight-sun


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jun 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There's just no way I'm the only one thinking what I'm thinking;
> 
> http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/20/341884706/why-vegetables-get-freakish-in-the-land-of-the-midnight-sun


I have a close friend on Kodiak island, I should send him all my autoflower seeds.


----------



## Bbcchance (Jun 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There's just no way I'm the only one thinking what I'm thinking;
> 
> http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/20/341884706/why-vegetables-get-freakish-in-the-land-of-the-midnight-sun


Where do you think she keeps those zucchinis at?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jun 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There's just no way I'm the only one thinking what I'm thinking;
> 
> http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/20/341884706/why-vegetables-get-freakish-in-the-land-of-the-midnight-sun


Theres a few weed nerds up there killing it I believe. A friend or friend's I should say used to live in Palmer and there was quite a bit of herb around there.


----------



## 9leaves (Jun 20, 2016)

tystikk said:


> Here's an interesting pic or two, hope it gives y'all some idea...
> 
> View attachment 2976675View attachment 2976676
> 
> Great. Gotta love the upside down pic.


Thats cool. I thought you were growing upside down. The cords of the lights gave it away that the pic was upside down. Very cool and inovative. Wish I had the room. I just need to maximise my room I have.


----------



## pop22 (Jun 20, 2016)

Looks good! When finished, will you post harvest results?



ttystikk said:


> Master Kush, almost 70 days, awaiting chop;
> View attachment 3710473


----------



## redi jedi (Jun 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 68 might be a touch cold, I'm aiming for 71F. OTOH, excess cooling capacity isn't a bad thing!
> 
> The air temp is plenty warm, that might help.
> 
> Don't be raining on my party, I'm just thrilled it works!


For cloning you should be aiming for 75..80. Use a few mils of bleach if your worried about pathogens.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 20, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> For cloning you should be aiming for 75..80. Use a few mils of bleach if your worried about pathogens.


80 is what killed them. I'm hearing 70-72, which is where is at now.


----------



## RM3 (Jun 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 80 is what killed them. I'm hearing 70-72, which is where is at now.


I set my heat mat to 82 for clones


----------



## redi jedi (Jun 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 80 is what killed them. I'm hearing 70-72, which is where is at now.


Whatever...your the only person I've ever heard about cooling an aero cloner.


----------



## BobBitchen (Jun 20, 2016)

I like 76°


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 20, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Whatever...your the only person I've ever heard about cooling an aero cloner.


I'm Not. They went icky and died. 82 was too warm. I did use bleach, perhaps a bit late. Two runs, sterilized in between, no love. So since I hear about low 70s, I'm trying it, along with everything else mentioned.

If it works, we learn something. If not, we've still learned something.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jun 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm Not. They went icky and died. 82 was too warm. I did use bleach, perhaps a bit late. Two runs, sterilized in between, no love. So since I hear about low 70s, I'm trying it, along with everything else mentioned.
> 
> If it works, we learn something. If not, we've still learned something.


Well if the cooler temps don't work you've learned nothing works lol. Good luck tty!


----------



## Frajola (Jun 20, 2016)

High tty ,
So my next garden has 101% of chance of going vert, thanks 2 u ! 
Your vert stile was triggering for me, now, I can clearly see a better use for my walls, which are not straight upward, they are in angle( im in a attic), which for taller plants could be a problem and also limits the space. 
Well I believe w training the plant will follow the angle towards the top.
I also thought about turning my hanging bare bulbs up side down, yes, instead hanging from the ceiling I will put then down on the floor and give then a lift as necessary.
The question now is : What strain should I go for? 
I still have from:
Strain Hunters _ Money Maker.
Green House Seed Co._ S. Lemon Haze.
Heavy Weight Seeds_ Dream Machine.
Dr. Krippling_ Incredible bulk.
Dinafem_ Chesse.
all fem.
Is that something for a good start or u r going to give me a input?
thanks.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jun 20, 2016)

Frajola said:


> High tty ,
> So my next garden has 101% of chance of going vert, thanks 2 u !
> Your vert stile was triggering for me, now, I can clearly see a better use for my walls, which are not straight upward, they are in angle( im in a attic), which for taller plants could be a problem and also limits the space.
> Well I believe w training the plant will follow the angle towards the top.
> ...


That dream machine should give you some big fatass buds. Or the Cheese would be my choices. SLH third


----------



## Frajola (Jun 20, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> That dream machine should give you some big fatass buds. Or the Cheese would be my choices. SLH third


I'd love to know how or even where to looking how to know which strain is better for this or that u know. What would u buy to start a vert grow ?
peace.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 20, 2016)

Frajola said:


> High tty ,
> So my next garden has 101% of chance of going vert, thanks 2 u !
> Your vert stile was triggering for me, now, I can clearly see a better use for my walls, which are not straight upward, they are in angle( im in a attic), which for taller plants could be a problem and also limits the space.
> Well I believe w training the plant will follow the angle towards the top.
> ...


Try them all, keep the ones that work best in your situation.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 20, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> That dream machine should give you some big fatass buds. Or the Cheese would be my choices. SLH third


He has solid insight on these matters. I just run shit, lol


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 20, 2016)

Frajola said:


> I'd love to know how or even where to looking how to know which strain is better for this or that u know. What would u buy to start a vert grow ?
> peace.


Bare socket cordsets, lol then work your way back from there. Fencing from hardware store or ag supply. Some way to hold everything up; from the ceiling or with a frame. Use any growing medium system you want, they all work. Train the plant to grow up; remove excess side branches as it grows. Good espalier techniques pay dividends. And practice!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jun 20, 2016)

Frajola said:


> I'd love to know how or even where to looking how to know which strain is better for this or that u know. What would u buy to start a vert grow ?
> peace.


I dont have an answer for you on this 1. Growing vertically is simply another style of growing. I would grow any strain you are interested in. Obviously there will be some which out perform others, but this is the case with any style of growing. I have seen big fat buds from dream machine and also from cheese outdoors. Maybe check with @DST @Dr.D81 and other vert threads to also see what they are running. Me personally I like it all so I cant choose 1


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jun 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Try them all, keep the ones that work best in your situation.


Keep the ones YOU like , we all different


----------



## Frajola (Jun 20, 2016)

I will start soon to build the fencing and others but not before I have the crop done, lol. 

thank u all guys.

tty u r the precursor thks.( and responsible for one more mess Im going to do ,lol) 

peace.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 20, 2016)

Frajola said:


> I will start soon to build the fencing and others but not before I have the crop done, lol.
> 
> thank u all guys.
> 
> ...


I consider that high praise, thank you!


----------



## Dr.D81 (Jun 20, 2016)

Hi tty since I am here this will be my next two going in the octagon @Frajola


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 20, 2016)

Dr.D81 said:


> Hi tty since I am here this will be my next two going in the octagon @Frajola View attachment 3713190


Sweet, bro! They look good-

I'm having some teething problems with cloning and switching to coco but all in all I'm doing all right.


----------



## RM3 (Jun 21, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Really?!?!?


Yeah he is spamin all the threads


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Jun 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sweet, bro! They look good-
> 
> I'm having some teething problems with cloning and switching to coco but all in all I'm doing all right.


What issues are you having switching to Coco has been pretty easy for me thus far .......


----------



## Dr.D81 (Jun 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sweet, bro! They look good. I am having some teething problems with cloning and switching to coco but all in all I'm doing all right.


Man as for the cloning sometimes we just have to find what works for us not what is working for others. I have had to change methods every 6 months to a year it seems like. shit will be working great then go to shit. I am liking the rock wool cloning now and working on gettingit just right. On the aerocloners I had much better luck with the bucket ckoner over the one you have. I traded it off then he ended up buying a bucket ckoner from me


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 21, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> What issues are you having switching to Coco has been pretty easy for me thus far .......


Just getting things switched.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 21, 2016)

Dr.D81 said:


> Man as for the cloning sometimes we just have to find what works for us not what is working for others. I have had to change methods every 6 months to a year it seems like. shit will be working great then go to shit. I am liking the rock wool cloning now and working on gettingit just right. On the aerocloners I had much better luck with the bucket ckoner over the one you have. I traded it off then he ended up buying a bucket ckoner from me


I went to school on the methods of a guy who gets great success.


----------



## Dr.D81 (Jun 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I went to school on the methods of a guy who gets great success.


Oh yea bob kills it so does alphaphase. Have you tried dwc cloning seems like it would fix your temp swings


----------



## Og Kushman (Jun 21, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> yeah so without clusterfuckin that other thread i thought i would post in here.these both went from t5 to gavita.under the t5 they are within 2 inches of the tubes.under gavita i have them about 24 to 30 in away.my point is the intensity prob aint what has them messed up unless you have those cobs so close they are cooking them,like 6 to 12 in away?
> View attachment 3710089
> 
> thats ^^^8 days in from t5 and shes sitting under a cluster of 3 gavita set at 825w
> ...


What size pot is that behemoth in and what kind of soil if you dont mind me asking?


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (Jun 21, 2016)

Dr.D81 said:


> Man as for the cloning sometimes we just have to find what works for us not what is working for others. I have had to change methods every 6 months to a year it seems like. shit will be working great then go to shit. I am liking the rock wool cloning now and working on gettingit just right. On the aerocloners I had much better luck with the bucket ckoner over the one you have. I traded it off then he ended up buying a bucket ckoner from me


My 5 gallon bucket cloner did alright with Yellow pear tomatoes. 5 of the 6 grew roots in a week. Got 6 pepper cuts in it now. Next will be some of the Deer Ate CP1.


----------



## sixstring2112 (Jun 21, 2016)

Og Kushman said:


> What size pot is that behemoth in and what kind of soil if you dont mind me asking?


10 gallon pot in promix using jacks classics and a few ammendments.


----------



## sixstring2112 (Jun 22, 2016)

@ttystikk did you ever get that rev micro de ballast n lamp combo hung up and growing ? im curious o n that lamp ,like how hot it gets and what type of footprint it throws down


----------



## OneHitDone (Jun 22, 2016)

Oh hell, don't make me break out my okie cloner.
Been there, done that, water sprayer, bubbler, root riot type plug and all. The most successful thing for me is this makeshift flood tray with KLN solution and no dome. Flood every 4 hours with Grodan Macro plugs.

I soak my cuts and macro plugs in kln solution for a couple hours before putting them into the system and mist once or twice a day when I remember for the first couple days.
Are you soaking your cuts before putting them into the cloner? Seems to make a big difference on keeping them hydrated for that first critical period.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 22, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> @ttystikk did you ever get that rev micro de ballast n lamp combo hung up and growing ? im curious o n that lamp ,like how hot it gets and what type of footprint it throws down


With the DE HPS lamp it came with, I'd say it throws a footprint very similar to a Gavita. 

I couldn't tell if it was producing more light, because the place it was set up was getting too hot. 

I'm about to reconfigure it for running a remote lamp, and I'll put an 860W CDM Allstart lamp on it. I want to see how much brighter it makes one vs running a mag ballast.


----------



## benbud89 (Jun 23, 2016)

Hi TT, you probably have this somewhere, but I couldnt see it in the last 30 pages, or so, which are about the led grow. How many w/sq ft do you end up with? Im about to set up my 4x2, 2 x 200w, 40" long bars, and I was just wondering how Id do verticalling those bars instead of a usual scrog. Im only thinking about it, just to spice things up. If I go with a regular scrog, Id have 50w/sq ft, whereas if I vertical it, I should 4' wide, 4.sth' up, should give around 16sqft and 25 w a sq feet, but, it would be over two bars, so the spread might not be superb. What would you do? Id probably get away with the regular two monts veg time, since mine's not as tall as yours. I hope its okay my way of posting. I like your dried bud pictures, thumbs up!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 23, 2016)

benbud89 said:


> Hi TT, you probably have this somewhere, but I couldnt see it in the last 30 pages, or so, which are about the led grow. How many w/sq ft do you end up with? Im about to set up my 4x2, 2 x 200w, 40" long bars, and I was just wondering how Id do verticalling those bars instead of a usual scrog. Im only thinking about it, just to spice things up. If I go with a regular scrog, Id have 50w/sq ft, whereas if I vertical it, I should 4' wide, 4.sth' up, should give around 16sqft and 25 w a sq feet, but, it would be over two bars, so the spread might not be superb. What would you do? Id probably get away with the regular two monts veg time, since mine's not as tall as yours. I hope its okay my way of posting. I like your dried bud pictures, thumbs up!


I'm currently running 900W of COB LED per 6' tall x 4' wide = 24sq ft trellis panel.

That comes out to 37.5W/sq ft, but this can be misleading. If I ran this watt density in HID - and I have - I'd end up with decent bud but it wouldn't be as dense. Why? 

It boils down to PPfD; watts times the efficiency coefficient of the lamp. Depending on how softly they're driven, COB LED can be anywhere from the high thirties to over seventy percent efficient at converting watts into PAR! By contrast, most HID lamps are in the low thirties to barely 40%- when they're new. (They deteriorate rapidly with use, needing replacement every 6-12 months. COB LED doesn't deteriorate in the same way, or at the same rate, lasting far longer.)

Another way of saying this is that you need up to twice the watts of HID lighting as one would of COB LED lighting to get the same PAR on the canopy. 

Instead of skimping, I just built a COB LED rack that uses the same watts as the HID lighting it's replacing in an effort to quantify exactly what the performance difference is.

...and the difference is substantially more weed of better quality. That sums it up quite nicely. 

I don't recommend using less watts per square foot on a vertical trellis than a horizontal SCRoG. The same plants need the same light, regardless of orientation.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 23, 2016)

I stayed distracted all day; i just finished a major overhaul of my clone zone including new nutes, new light and a custom water chilling system to keep the cloner temps in check. Now it's full of cuts, sooooooooo it's officially proof in the pudding time! 

I even bought a BlueLab guardian to continuously monitor pH, EC and temperature. No more guesswork, shit's gonna be on point from here out!


----------



## kiwipaulie (Jun 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3715689 I stayed distracted all day; i just finished a major overhaul of my clone zone including new nutes, new light and a custom water chilling system to keep the cloner temps in check. Now it's full of cuts, sooooooooo it's officially proof in the pudding time!
> 
> I even bought a BlueLab guardian to continuously monitor pH, EC and temperature. No more guesswork, shit's gonna be on point from here out!


Argh. Bluelab. Excellent quality - NZ made


----------



## BobBitchen (Jun 24, 2016)

Can't wait for the root pr0n


----------



## Alaric (Jun 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3715689
> 
> I even bought a BlueLab guardian to continuously monitor pH, EC and temperature. No more guesswork, shit's gonna be on point from here out!


Don't forget humidity.

Monitor and control is a major factor for me choosing water culture.

Are all the ins / outs connectorised (sp) on that blue lab monitor?

On my tri meters If (when) a probe/power supply goes bad-------have to replace the whole meter----yuk.

A~~~


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Argh. Bluelab. Excellent quality - NZ made


I'm a customer for life. They make good shit, I'll keep buying it.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

Alaric said:


> Don't forget humidity.
> 
> Monitor and control is a major factor for me choosing water culture.
> 
> ...


Halfway; EC/temp probe is permanent, pH probe is replaceable.

I get three to four years out of a portable combo meter, and that's constant use.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

BobBitchen said:


> Can't wait for the root pr0n


You know it - all this is YOUR FAULT, you know!


----------



## kiwipaulie (Jun 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm a customer for life. They make good shit, I'll keep buying it.


They take alot of pride in their work and one of the few that havnt just shipped the manufacturing to China.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay;
  
I toke all night and I grow all day!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jun 24, 2016)

Hey @ttystikk thought about you this morning as I dig into my purple sticky rice with shredded coconut, feeling particularly vietnamese having rice for breakfast!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jun 24, 2016)

Oh yeah this shit is GOOD, eating it out of a styrofoam container with a little plastic prison spoon hahahahaha


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Hey @ttystikk thought about you this morning as I dig into my purple sticky rice with shredded coconut, feeling particularly vietnamese having rice for breakfast!


That sounds so yummy!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jun 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That sounds so yummy!


And it tastes yummy!! Shredded coconut, some bean paste, and a bit of sugar, oh and some peanuts


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> And it tastes yummy!! Shredded coconut, some bean paste, and a bit of sugar, oh and some peanuts


Sweet red bean paste. It's the shit!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2016)

Did some heavy pruning throughout my veg today, I'm super happy with how the Tupur is working. 

Along with the COB LED modules, it's redefining how I think of the term 'explosive growth'.


----------



## Alaric (Jun 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay;
> View attachment 3716416 View attachment 3716417 View attachment 3716418
> I toke all night and I grow all day!


---------but didn't you mean "manicure all day"?

I hope the next toy you buy is a good quality light meter (that measures at least 10,000 foot candles).
I'm curious about the intensity your plants are receiving.

Thanks for the pics,

A~~~


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

Alaric said:


> ---------but didn't you mean "manicure all day"?
> 
> I hope the next toy you buy is a good quality light meter (that measures at least 10,000 foot candles).
> I'm curious about the intensity your plants are receiving.
> ...


It's on the list of stuff to get, just haven't found the right meter for the right price yet.


----------



## OneHitDone (Jun 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Did some heavy pruning throughout my veg today, I'm super happy with how the Tupur is working.
> 
> Along with the COB LED modules, it's redefining how I think of the term 'explosive growth'.


You should have been next to me for the conversation being shoved down my throat by a guy at the local growish shop - It's a special order but the system to have is Tupur with Spectrum King Lighting


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> You should have been next to me for the conversation being shoved down my throat by a guy at the local growish shop - It's a special order but the system to have is Tupur with Spectrum King Lighting


Retch on da fool's shoes.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2016)

I just wired up the @Revolution Micro fixture to run a remote socket and test fired the 860W CDM Allstart lamp. WOW, it struck hard and warmed up FAST compared to the mag startup cycle! Can't wait to have it up and running over my prebloom veg! I'll be starting a new thread on the testing soon and I'll post the link here.


----------



## zep_lover (Jun 26, 2016)

what lighting are you vegging and pre flowering with since the switch to led?


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 26, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> what lighting are you vegging and pre flowering with since the switch to led?


Veg under COB LED and 315W CMH.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 26, 2016)

Alaric said:


> ---------but didn't you mean "manicure all day"?
> 
> I hope the next toy you buy is a good quality light meter (that measures at least 10,000 foot candles).
> I'm curious about the intensity your plants are receiving.
> ...


Each module consists of four Cree CXB3590 3500K CD BIN chips, driven at 54W. The driver pulls a few more, bringing the total watts drawn to 225. The COBs are arranged in pairs to provide even coverage over a 2'x3' area. The numbers people calculate range around 825-860 PPfD. I have 80 degree lenses on them. I run them about 30" from the trellis panel, the plants will grow up to 15" towards the lights.

I run 4 of these modules over a 6' tall x 4' wide trellis panel. That adds up to 900W. My best is 32oz for one plant on such a trellis.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 27, 2016)

So I recently heard some inside info about the new LED greenhouse facilities at Colorado State; they're still living in the blurple age. 

I'm going to try and wrangle myself a field trip.


----------



## Alaric (Jun 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Each module consists of four Cree CXB3590 3500K CD BIN chips, driven at 54W. The driver pulls a few more, bringing the total watts drawn to 225. The COBs are arranged in pairs to provide even coverage over a 2'x3' area. The numbers people calculate range around 825-860 PPfD. I have 80 degree lenses on them. I run them about 30" from the trellis panel, the plants will grow up to 15" towards the lights.
> 
> I run 4 of these modules over a 6' tall x 4' wide trellis panel. That adds up to 900W. My best is 32oz for one plant on such a trellis.


Good info.

If I understand correctly, and did the math right----that's .99 grams per watt (I think). That's very difficult with a 1K single ended hortilux.

What is your estimate in terms of heat reduction comparing a 1K se bare bulb against your 900w module?

A~~~


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 27, 2016)

Alaric said:


> Good info.
> 
> If I understand correctly, and did the math right----that's .99 grams per watt (I think). That's very difficult with a 1K single ended hortilux.
> 
> ...


I got right around 1gpw as well. There's no doubt that the potential exists for higher numbers. 

A single ended HID lamp runs at 300F or more at the surface. My modules are cool enough to touch, so it's hard for me to make such a comparison.


----------



## Alaric (Jun 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> A single ended HID lamp runs at 300F or more at the surface. My modules are cool enough to touch, so it's hard for me to make such a comparison.


Well, that gets us in the ball park. Wouldn't be any fun to grab a fully fired up 1K HID bulb----ouch!

IMO, heat removal is one of most difficult challenges we indoor boys face----especially south of Mason-Dixon.

A~~~


----------



## Big_Lou (Jun 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay;
> View attachment 3716416 View attachment 3716417 View attachment 3716418
> I toke all night and I grow all day!


Holy _shiiiitttt_, man.....my brothers NEVER grew anything that looked like that! It's got a friggin *trunk* with intersecting crotches like a *tree*!

Hot damn....


----------



## autolaise (Jun 27, 2016)

Very nice garden. Thanks for taking all this time to share your grows. I want to grow outdoors on the roof which I can hide fairly well if I keep it low, 30 inches max and it decreases because the roof is like a V. Your v screens are impressive and "big".
Dude, all you do is grow great weed. If you want a holiday, great honor to look after your garden. Just ask.


----------



## harris hawk (Jun 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay;
> View attachment 3716416 View attachment 3716417 View attachment 3716418
> I toke all night and I grow all day!


How long is your total grow times ? - veg times and flower times - Thanks, never seen one such as that - looks like a Sativa strain? Side lighting does wonders , your picture prove that !!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 27, 2016)

Alaric said:


> Well, that gets us in the ball park. Wouldn't be any fun to grab a fully fired up 1K HID bulb----ouch!
> 
> IMO, heat removal is one of most difficult challenges we indoor boys face----especially south of Mason-Dixon.
> 
> A~~~


Here's another data point to consider; I'm the only grower I know who runs 5400W of lighting in a 6 x 12' box- and has trouble keeping it _warm enough. _


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 27, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> Holy _shiiiitttt_, man.....my brothers NEVER grew anything that looked like that! It's got a friggin *trunk* with intersecting crotches like a *tree*!
> 
> Hot damn....


Why, thank you @Big_Lou!

For scale, the trellis panels are 4" squares. 

I've pulled 32oz from one plant in the last COB LED run, looking to do something similar with at least one or two this run as seen in these pics- and then making it a consistent occurrence going forward, because that's what we do!


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 27, 2016)

harris hawk said:


> How long is your total grow times ? - veg times and flower times - Thanks, never seen one such as that - looks like a Sativa strain? Side lighting does wonders , your picture prove that !!


Fresh cutting to chop day is roughly 5 months, sometimes a bit longer. With the switch to Tupur, a coco perlite mix with compost, from RDWC and other bare root hydroponic methods, we may cut those times a bit. By the looks of things thus far it may improve the performance and consistency of yields as well.


----------



## Alaric (Jun 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's another data point to consider; I'm the only grower I know who runs 5400W of lighting in a 6 x 12' box- and has trouble keeping it _warm enough. _




If not at the north pole-----care to provide details?

What kind of lighting?

A~~~


----------



## pop22 (Jun 27, 2016)

I use a small, DIY cloner. Its is kept in a small cabinet in my bedroom. Its just a DWC cloner, nothing fancy. I change the water once a week. Room temps are 70-76 daily. I've never had a problem. I've had some strains take forever, but no root rot,etc



ttystikk said:


> I went to school on the methods of a guy who gets great success.


----------



## pop22 (Jun 27, 2016)

If the efficiency of his LEDs is 54% and lets say an HID is 34%. The means 54% of the electricity used creates photons, and 46% is heat. Right there is 20% less heat than HID when comparing at equal wattage. 



ttystikk said:


> I got right around 1gpw as well. There's no doubt that the potential exists for higher numbers.
> 
> A single ended HID lamp runs at 300F or more at the surface. My modules are cool enough to touch, so it's hard for me to make such a comparison.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 27, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I use a small, DIY cloner. Its is kept in a small cabinet in my bedroom. Its just a DWC cloner, nothing fancy. I change the water once a week. Room temps are 70-76 daily. I've never had a problem. I've had some strains take forever, but no root rot,etc


My clone zone was much warmer and I couldn't cool the whole space. The tub and cold water circuit is a highly effective solution.


----------



## GroErr (Jun 29, 2016)

Had some issues with the King cloner at first, just less water in it (than my DIY cloner) and had it sitting on concrete so water temps were too low, making the rooting process slower like up to 4 weeks at first. Once I put it on a Styrofoam pad I was able to keep water temps between 71-74F with the pump on 24/7. I also mix 50/50 tap water which is very high in chlorine and filtered water with the chlorine removed. Now they're now rooting within 8-15 days again. Always have some in there and change up the water every 2 weeks, back to normal. It's critical for me to have reliable clones as I don't keep mother's.



This is where the overall environment sits now, they're happy, I'm happy 
Date/time Air Water RH
6/26/2016 3:17 PM 70.0°F 72.5°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 3:02 PM 70.2°F 72.5°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 2:46 PM 70.3°F 72.5°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 2:31 PM 70.3°F 72.6°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 2:16 PM 70.4°F 72.6°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 2:01 PM 70.4°F 72.6°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 1:46 PM 70.7°F 72.6°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 1:31 PM 70.7°F 72.8°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 1:16 PM 70.7°F 72.8°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 1:01 PM 70.8°F 72.8°F 60.0%
6/26/2016 12:46 PM 70.8°F 73.0°F 60.0%


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 29, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Had some issues with the King cloner at first, just less water in it (than my DIY cloner) and had it sitting on concrete so water temps were too low, making the rooting process slower like up to 4 weeks at first. Once I put it on a Styrofoam pad I was able to keep water temps between 71-74F with the pump on 24/7. I also mix 50/50 tap water which is very high in chlorine and filtered water with the chlorine removed. Now they're now rooting within 8-15 days again. Always have some in there and change up the water every 2 weeks, back to normal. It's critical for me to have reliable clones as I don't keep mother's.
> 
> View attachment 3720202
> 
> ...


RH is low in my clone zone, forties usually. Water is between 69-72. EC with Clonex sauce is 1.0. PH is 6.0.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 4, 2016)

Looks like I'm gonna be busy for a minute.


----------



## zep_lover (Jul 4, 2016)

so you are doing runs with cmh lighting also?or are you finishing with them ?looks good either way!


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## Mohican (Jul 4, 2016)

Wall of Buds!!!


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 4, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> so you are doing runs with cmh lighting also?or are you finishing with them ?looks good either way!


This is the other room, yes. Lighting is old school magnetic ballasts driving 5 x 860W CDM Allstart lamps. It will be converted to COB LED eventually. Meanwhile it just keeps chugging along...


----------



## BM9AGS (Jul 4, 2016)

Damn man. Makes me want to try vert.


----------



## BM9AGS (Jul 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Why, thank you @Big_Lou!
> 
> For scale, the trellis panels are 4" squares.
> 
> I've pulled 32oz from one plant in the last COB LED run, looking to do something similar with at least one or two this run as seen in these pics- and then making it a consistent occurrence going forward, because that's what we do!


Can I see a pic of this beast?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 4, 2016)

BM9AGS said:


> Can I see a pic of this beast?


It's the one at the far end in the bottom pic;
https://www.rollitup.org/t/ttystikks-vertical-goodness.787572/page-117#post-12697950

The one at the near end went its usual 9 1/2 weeks (great movie, btw) and is pictured here, waiting for its turn in the trim room;


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 4, 2016)

Happy 4th!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jul 4, 2016)

The plants look awesome brother. Ive got 16 happy seedlings, awaiting #17 to pop up with 2 which will come down within the next month. These seedlings have already been through few weeks worth of shitty weather and high winds so they should be well strong to explode (hopefully).


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 4, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> The plants look awesome brother. Ive got 16 happy seedlings, awaiting #17 to pop up with 2 which will come down within the next month. These seedlings have already been through few weeks worth of shitty weather and high winds so they should be well strong to explode (hopefully).


Thank you, Sir! Mine don't have to weather tropical storms, just operator error. 

I always dig pics of your crib and the locale. Sorry to hear things are rough right now.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jul 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you, Sir! Mine don't have to weather tropical storms, just operator error.
> 
> I always dig pics of your crib and the locale. Sorry to hear things are rough right now.


Yep mine get some Op error + tropical weather . Thanks man, its gonna turn around soon, just gotta get through another month of no cash. Ive got a short interview in the morning for some contracting work offshore (2 months worth of work) here so hopefully be able to bank some cash


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## pop22 (Jul 4, 2016)

I'm getting high looking at the pics............lol!




ttystikk said:


> Looks like I'm gonna be busy for a minute.
> View attachment 3724419 View attachment 3724420 View attachment 3724421 View attachment 3724422 View attachment 3724423 View attachment 3724424 View attachment 3724425 View attachment 3724426


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 4, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'm getting high looking at the pics............lol!


Lol you'd get fuckin blazed smelling them, then! 

To say nothing of actually smoking some!


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Looks like I'm gonna be busy for a minute.
> View attachment 3724419 View attachment 3724420 View attachment 3724421 View attachment 3724422 View attachment 3724423 View attachment 3724424 View attachment 3724425 View attachment 3724426


Looks great, can't wait for you cob vs cdm yield reports after a few runs


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## OneHitDone (Jul 4, 2016)

Was this batch still dwc or Tupur?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 5, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Looks great, can't wait for you cob vs cdm yield reports after a few runs


I am seeing glimpses of the potential already, but I've yet to get anywhere close to dialed in. For example, even with serious nutrient problems I'm getting record yields of two pounds and more for a single plant. Few plants approach that yet, so I'm hoping the substrate change will help improve consistency...


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 5, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Was this batch still dwc or Tupur?


Still RDWC. Current batch is, too. Next one will be the first with the new substrate.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 5, 2016)

Ok so I got a head scratcher for y'all; last run, one of my modules wasn't working and so the plant only had three modules on it rather than four. 

That's the new record yielder. Haven't weighed it yet but it looks bigger than two. 

Go figure? I honestly think I'm dealing with the plant's inability to handle all the light I'm giving them. It could be my fault, as the final pre bloom veg ran just 1/6 the PAR W/sq ft of the COB rack. I've since bumped the watts of lighting in the prebloom zone up by 85%, hoping to handle this problem before it happens. 

Above, I discussed that I ran half the modules for several days, added the third for several more days and turned up the fourth and last only after a full week in bloom on the trellis. Now at day 15, they aren't laying down 'as much' as my last two batches. 

Maybe more nutes? I'm easing my EC upward to see what happens. They've been eating a hundred gallon batch down from EC 2.1 to 1.6 in less than a week. So this time their fresh batch is EC 2.3, we'll see what happens.


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 5, 2016)

Maybe plants don't like cobs


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## SomeGuy (Jul 5, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Maybe plants don't like cobs


Lol. 

He is experiencing diminished return s from too much direct light. He also cant get farther away.. 

I would say dim them and document results. 

This is also where the use of an arduino controller could simulate time of day by controlling output over the span of 12hrs.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 5, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Maybe plants don't like cobs


You're just being corny.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 5, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Lol.
> 
> He is experiencing diminished return s from too much direct light. He also cant get farther away..
> 
> ...


I respectfully disagree. I'm experiencing light shock from inadequate lighting in prebloom veg. The difference in PAR is a factor of six!


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 5, 2016)

Have you laid a par meter under your cob panels vs cdm?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 5, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Have you laid a par meter under your cob panels vs cdm?


No. I did the math on the lighting involved, however;

315x4=1260W x 38% efficiency = 480W of PAR

5400W of COB LED x 56% efficiency = 3000W of PAR

Comfortably over 6:1, and certainly enough to explain light shock.

To compensate, I hooked up a supplemental 860W CDM Allstart lamp, it runs at 1000W but on a mag ballast is only 30% efficient, so another 300W of PAR for a 60% increase. Now it's hot and dry in there. Can't win! Lol


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ok so I got a head scratcher for y'all; last run, one of my modules wasn't working and so the plant only had three modules on it rather than four.
> 
> That's the new record yielder. Haven't weighed it yet but it looks bigger than two.
> 
> ...


Updates on the weights, mates; It hit exactly two. Tied for the record with another CSD from the previous run! So two runs back to back gave the same results. At least the big number is consistent, lol


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I respectfully disagree. I'm experiencing light shock from inadequate lighting in prebloom veg. The difference in PAR is a factor of six!


Cool

If your vegg wattage was working fien before why not just dim the flower room the first few weeks to ease them into it?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 5, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Cool
> 
> If your vegg wattage was working fien before why not just dim the flower room the first few weeks to ease them into it?


That's exactly what I did this run; I ran half for 4 days, up to 3/4 for another three and then up to full power by day 8. This run is showing fewer symptoms that the first two, but still there.

The new growth is really nice, so that's another reason why I think it's light shock.


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (Jul 5, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Wall of Buds!!!


Now if he could find a strain named Rednecked Mother. . . . .


----------



## Larry {the} Gardener (Jul 5, 2016)

Larry {the} Gardener said:


> Now if he could find a strain named Rednecked Mother. . . . .


For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about. . .


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 5, 2016)

Larry {the} Gardener said:


> Now if he could find a strain named Rednecked Mother. . . . .


Wall of voodoo;


----------



## pop22 (Jul 7, 2016)

What are your CO2 levels? Max light +max nutrients needs max CO2 to push your plant to the max. Also, I wonder about the necessity of using lens on COBs used in SCROG. I would think a better spread would even the lighting and the plants would be cooler from not dealing with focused beams of light. 
Or it is possible, you just have more light than they need! Imagine that!



ttystikk said:


> Ok so I got a head scratcher for y'all; last run, one of my modules wasn't working and so the plant only had three modules on it rather than four.
> 
> That's the new record yielder. Haven't weighed it yet but it looks bigger than two.
> 
> ...


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2016)

pop22 said:


> What are your CO2 levels? Max light +max nutrients needs max CO2 to push your plant to the max. Also, I wonder about the necessity of using lens on COBs used in SCROG. I would think a better spread would even the lighting and the plants would be cooler from not dealing with focused beams of light.
> Or it is possible, you just have more light than they need! Imagine that!


Plenty of CO2, and don't make the same logical mistake everyone else is. If it was too much light, the very same modules would be burning the plants in my veg area.


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 7, 2016)

I can't wait to see the big reveal on your cob panels and am interested in yield reports etc. But honestly I just don't see how putting that many watts of cob at each trellis is making any improvement over hid.
I mean, if a bare 1000watter can service 4 trellises that's only 250W per trellis.
Can cob produce at 250w per 4x6 trellis?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> I can't wait to see the big reveal on your cob panels and am interested in yield reports etc. But honestly I just don't see how putting that many watts of cob at each trellis is making any improvement over hid.
> I mean, if a bare 1000watter can service 4 trellises that's only 250W per trellis.
> Can cob produce at 250w per 4x6 trellis?


I did a straight watt for watt swap from HID to COB LED. The point of the exercise was to see what the difference is. 

So far I'm getting better light and twice of it. What slays me is all the knuckleheads telling me something is wrong with my lights, when clearly I'm only having problems because they're working so much BETTER. After all, my girls don't shock when they go into HID. 

As far as improvements go, there's a noticeable improvement in quality and yield, even while I'm still screwing things up lol


----------



## pookat (Jul 7, 2016)

can you adjust the mark/space (pulse width) ratio of your cob's ? less on time would lessen any shock affect without losing any lighting effect


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2016)

pookat said:


> can you adjust the mark/space (pulse width) ratio of your cob's ? less on time would lessen any shock affect without losing any lighting effect


They're just continuously on. 

Again, the problem lies with the veg. Not enough light in there leads to light shock when they hit the big time.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jul 7, 2016)

Whats light shock?


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 7, 2016)

Weren't you lighting more than 1 trellis with each 860CDM?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Weren't you lighting more than 1 trellis with each 860CDM?


One 860W CDM Allstart lamp ACTUALLY pulls 1080W from the wall, because the mag ballast drives it at a thousand watts and needs the other 80 for itself. 5 of them = 5400W. 

24 modules at 225W apiece = 5400W.


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 7, 2016)

Your evading the question 
You were only using 1 side of the CDM lamps pointing at a trellis or where there trellises around the lamp?
I assume with the cobs you are blasting more watts straight at the trellis?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Your evading the question
> You were only using 1 side of the CDM lamps pointing at a trellis or where there trellises around the lamp?
> I assume with the cobs you are blasting more watts straight at the trellis?


I arranged the half dozen trellis panels vertically, in a racetrack shape. The lamps hang vertically and bare inside, their omnidirectional light shining on the interior where the plants are trained. 

For the COB modules, the panels are flat in two facing rows of three. The modules are in the middle, shining to each side. 

Same six trellis panels for the same area, same watts- just different light emitting devices.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They're just continuously on.
> 
> Again, the problem lies with the veg. Not enough light in there leads to light shock when they hit the big time.


I would agree.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I would agree.


Yes, and I have easy confirmation; the modules in my small veg over the babies are lighting them super well, getting fantastic growth and no signs of shock at all. It's the prebloom veg with 315W CMH lights that's the problem.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 7, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Whats light shock?


Like having to harden an indoor plant to the sun or it stunts them.

Plants don't adjust well to abrupt changes in light.

Grow one under a single cfl and then throw it under t5. It will do the same.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jul 7, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Like having to harden an indoor plant to the sun or it stunts them.
> 
> Plants don't adjust well to abrupt changes in light.
> 
> Grow one under a single cfl and then throw it under t5. It will do the same.


I go from T-5 to 1000 watt SE and DE, never had a problem. Also go from aquarium floro with clones to 8 bulb T-5's, never an issue. I believe its something else. Basically whats been said is a 2-3 month old vegging plant is getting problems on light change. I could be wrong, I'm only trying to help. The OP doesn't like me, but this is one of the best journals going so i watch it.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 7, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I go from T-5 to 1000 watt SE and DE, never had a problem. Also go from aquarium floro with clones to 8 bulb T-5's, never an issue. I believe its something else. Basically whats been said is a 2-3 month old vegging plant is getting problems on light change. I could be wrong, I'm only trying to help. The OP doesn't like me, but this is one of the best journals going so i watch it.


You may not have problems.

Doesn't mean that its not true. I've seen with my own eyes.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jul 7, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> You may not have problems.
> 
> Doesn't mean that its not true. I've seen with my own eyes.


Ok.


----------



## doniawon (Jul 7, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Ok.


Ty is a cool dude, doubt he dis-likes anyone. He's paving the way with his experiments, gets haters galore. Got to admire how he handles the criticisms. 

I for one am gonna start saving for COB's. More than enough proof, in this big ole bowl of puddin'


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I go from T-5 to 1000 watt SE and DE, never had a problem. Also go from aquarium floro with clones to 8 bulb T-5's, never an issue. I believe its something else. Basically whats been said is a 2-3 month old vegging plant is getting problems on light change. I could be wrong, I'm only trying to help. The OP doesn't like me, but this is one of the best journals going so i watch it.


Don't kid yourself; you're nowhere near a significant enough figure in my life for me to waste energy actually hating you.

I just wish you had a better attitude.

All else aside, thank you for the compliment.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jul 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Don't kid yourself; you're nowhere near a significant enough figure in my life for me to waste energy actually hating you.
> 
> I just wish you had a better attitude.
> 
> All else aside, thank you for the compliment.


I never said you hated any one. What the fuck?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I never said you hated any one. What the fuck?


Wow man. Drop it already.


----------



## pinner420 (Jul 8, 2016)

Do your plants listen to a different station in veg? Mexican radio! Different music changes the stomata shape.


----------



## BM9AGS (Jul 8, 2016)

Haha...... Mine watch all hot lesbo porn....... One time I caught them watching lesbo porn with a bull dike and 1 fuckin hermied..... Murdered that one......don't tell lgbt people


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Do your plants listen to a different station in veg? Mexican radio! Different music changes the stomata shape.


I know, they look like tiny sombreros under the 'scope. Makes 'em a little spicy!


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2016)

Just moved a batch of ladies in 5 gallon buckets. We modified these with holes drilled all around the sides at the bottom, so roots could find their way out and into the shallow water in the tub they sit in. 

Even before day one of bloom, every bucket had roots coming out. I'm all kinds of impressed!


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2016)

A few gratuitous pics of the latest batch of monsters, these look to be the largest I've grown under HID to date;


----------



## BM9AGS (Jul 8, 2016)

Really love some clones of that beast!!!


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2016)

BM9AGS said:


> Really love some clones of that beast!!!


Wish granted.


----------



## Alaric (Jul 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> A few gratuitous pics of the latest batch of monsters, these look to be the largest I've grown under HID to date;
> View attachment 3727327 View attachment 3727328 View attachment 3727329


Hey tty,

I'd like to see under the covers (root zone).

Question: Why not remove the bottoms of the buckets?

Impressive,

A~~~


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2016)

Alaric said:


> Hey tty,
> 
> I'd like to see under the covers (root zone).
> 
> ...


I'll see what I can do. 

The Tupur buckets are full of the substrate, so cutting the bottoms off won't keep it in place.


----------



## Alaric (Jul 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'll see what I can do.
> 
> The Tupur buckets are full of the substrate, so cutting the bottoms off won't keep it in place.


What do you expect to improve using the substrate?

A~~~


----------



## sixstring2112 (Jul 8, 2016)

i have seen you say more than once you have your dimming wires capped off for more power,yet you think your cooking the plants with too much light.why in the hell dont you add dimmers to your ballasts and turn them down during transition for a week or so before you crank them up a lil at a time ? this of course if you insist on NOT moving the cobs back away from the plants some lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> i have seen you say more than once you have your dimming wires capped off for more power,yet you think your cooking the plants with too much light.why in the hell dont you add dimmers to your ballasts and turn them down during transition for a week or so before you crank them up a lil at a time ? this of course if you insist on NOT moving the cobs back away from the plants some lol.


If I'm having problems with plants coming from another space, why not start there?

The current run was in fact hardened off exactly as you just suggested. It's doing much better, but from a systems design standpoint that's treating the symptom rather than curing the disease.

There are lots of references above about how I first replaced my veg lighting with more efficient systems, but I made the mistake of reducing my wattage instead of keeping power consumption constant and increasing light output. The mismatch came when I did the opposite with the LED rack.

Now there's a 6:1 disparity in PAR between the two, and so my plan is to bump up PAR Watts in veg to solve the problem. That's tracking the problem to its source and eliminating it.

Why is everyone dying to have me turn my lights off? I'm nowhere near the upper limit of PPF, so turning the lights down isn't addressing the underlying problem. New growth is healthy and vigorous. 

Besides, if these lights are too strong to grow plants under, why are they working so well in my nursery?

Dimming in transition is a technique for making up for the weakness of the previous phase. Instead of reducing DLI in bloom, I'm simply adding more in veg.


----------



## sixstring2112 (Jul 8, 2016)

'idk man,i really think sometimes you just over complicate things.so whats my "par disparity" as you put it if im vegging a plant under 216w of t5 and going straight to a gavita @800w ? because i do it all the time and my plants never skip a beat.and for that matter what do you blame when a grower vegges under 1000w mh and flips them under 1000w hps and his plants look like shit?do you ever chalk it up to the grower or do you have to blame the system in that case as well ? i would guess your new spectrum has more to do with it than light intensity does.plants under led require different nutes than plants under hid,i learned that the first run under a mars panel with a strain i have had forever.my point is you been playin in water for years now,constantly changing shit,nutes,lights whatever.only now do i see a decent looking leaf and your in a dif "substrate" which i never caught what you switched to.im not trying to be a dick but you would think after 3 or 4 years in dro you would have that part dialed in like 110% #1 rule or advice given in the noob grower 101 topics is dont change 10 things on every run or you cant get help or get your crop dialed in.i know from watchingyou through the years you love to tinker with shit constanly.all im saying is how can you say with such absolute that its def the change in lighting from veg to bloom? because to me thats the one thing a plant can adapt to like overnight.what they dont do well with is stuff like a jump from say 300ppm to 1000ppm in a day,and although they may eventually adapt to that feed change,your yields would most likely suffer alot.
my next question is why even use led if you are matching watts in flower while cooking shit,and having to bump veg power so much you lose any electrical savings you might gain in cooling costs?
i grew outdoors for many years before we went medical here.i always started my seeds under t12 or t8 floros and when it got warm enough outside i put them out in a field of sun,they did fine.i never bought into hardening off shit.i just wonder what my " par disparity" might have been in those days lol.
these lil fuckers were vegged under t5,never skipped a beat tossed right under hid.theres 2 of my helpers in there if ya look close haha.
 

first run under the cobs @ just 1050ma and i didnt put the reflectors on till the last week,wish i did it sooner since my lights were so high.but i cant complain,new strain new lights.i might of got more under the 600w that used to be there but i know my next run will be better with a known strain.bitches be hungry as hell under the cobs.
now i know to use more calmag,my feeds are weak @ about 450 to 500ppm.lesson learned i guess.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2016)

Alaric said:


> What do you expect to improve using the substrate?
> 
> A~~~


Consistency in nutrient uptake, leading to more consistent results. Tupur does an excellent job of buffering both EC and pH.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2016)

@sixstring2112 what substrate are you using?


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## sixstring2112 (Jul 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @sixstring2112 what substrate are you using?


its just promix and jacks classics.when i go out of town i use ionic in my res


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## ttystikk (Jul 9, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> its just promix and jacks classics.when i go out of town i use ionic in my res


I'm guessing promix and Tupur are similar. 

From having used both, I know for sure that my dry nutrient salts are the same as Jacks. 

I'm expecting more consistent results than RDWC with less work.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Jul 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm guessing promix and Tupur are similar.
> 
> From having used both, I know for sure that my dry nutrient salts are the same as Jacks.
> 
> I'm expecting more consistent results than RDWC with less work.


I think that is exactly what you will find, as that's what I am finding in my switch to Coco and Flora Nova


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## ttystikk (Jul 9, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I think that is exactly what you will find, as that's what I am finding in my switch to Coco and Flora Nova


My veg is all converted to Tupur by now and they're the healthiest girls I've had in years. I've no reason to suspect it won't continue like this through bloom, so I'm excited to watch it happen.


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## sixstring2112 (Jul 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My veg is all converted to Tupur by now and they're the healthiest girls I've had in years. I've no reason to suspect it won't continue like this through bloom, so I'm excited to watch it happen.


Yup and if you keep your feeds the same when you first move from veg to bloom they will never skip a beat. Then once stretch is over you could tweak your feeds to more of a bloom nute.
Then if your still having issues in bloom you could tell me its the lights lol.im just saying simpler is better.my jacks feeds are real light first few weeks of bloom like my last week of veg,just 1 tsp per gal of the grow formula 20.20.20 so im really giving them something like 6.6.6.then i switch to the 10.30.20 formula @ similar strength so theres not alot of shock there im prob really giving them about 3.12.6 because of how light im feeding.then once i know shits firing on all cylinders around week 3 i jack it up to about full power maybe 650 to 700ppm for a few weeks like week 3.4.5.6 then i start to tapper back down to 400 for week 7 and shut em down with just ro and a few doses of molasses early in flush.
But if your still using your hydro formula it may not work as well,im not familiar with tupar.is it dirt ,peat or coco?
If its peat you need to drop your calnit and ph your feeds to 6.2.if its more like coco you could keep the ph where you had it and maybe cut the calnite by half what you were using in h2o


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## ttystikk (Jul 9, 2016)

Tupur is coco, perlite and 'composted forest litter'.

Until my girls tell me there's a problem, I'm keeping my nutrient profile right where it is. It's working, so I'm in no mood to go fixing it. 

The current batch in the COB LED rack is still in RDWC and I think that has a lot to do with what's going on. When I run a batch thru it in Tupur, I'll of course be watching for differences.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jul 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My veg is all converted to Tupur by now and they're the healthiest girls I've had in years. I've no reason to suspect it won't continue like this through bloom, so I'm excited to watch it happen.


You and me both this is very exciting and although I have no where near your experience, these plants in the coco are my healthiest veg plants as well, and I can't wait to get a vert run in my 3x3 with the coco and the 600W


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## Evil-Mobo (Jul 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Tupur is coco, perlite and 'composted forest litter'.
> 
> Until my girls tell me there's a problem, I'm keeping my nutrient profile right where it is. It's working, so I'm in no mood to go fixing it.
> 
> The current batch in the COB LED rack is still in RDWC and I think that has a lot to do with what's going on. When I run a batch thru it in Tupur, I'll of course be watching for differences.


I wouldn't be surprised if you see RWDC type growth but more consistent.


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## ttystikk (Jul 9, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if you see RWDC type growth but more consistent.


It's already better than the ebb n flood with hydroton I was running. Same nutes, same lights. BTW, the lights in my nursery are all CXB3590 powered modules exactly like the ones in bloom. The babies in Tupur absolutely explode underneath these lights.


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## Michael Huntherz (Jul 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's already better than the ebb n flood with hydroton I was running. Same nutes, same lights. BTW, the lights in my nursery are all CXB3590 powered modules exactly like the ones in bloom. The babies in Tupur absolutely explode underneath these lights.


I'm going to try that stuff.


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## ttystikk (Jul 10, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I'm going to try that stuff.


I'm pretty darn impressed, myself.


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## pop22 (Jul 11, 2016)

Coco is amazing! I recently started using it and I'm impressed. I've done DWC, and I've been growing organic for along time. My coco grows have been as trouble free as my organics, and more productive! I'm going to try a 20 gallon DIY bottom fed coco pot in the fall just for giggles. My auto pots produce well enough for my needs. Then, I'll add a vertical scrog also. Just too busy with the greenhouse to start a new indoor project.

I look forward to seeing you resolve this issue, we all learn alot from you!




ttystikk said:


> My veg is all converted to Tupur by now and they're the healthiest girls I've had in years. I've no reason to suspect it won't continue like this through bloom, so I'm excited to watch it happen.


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## Michael Huntherz (Jul 11, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Coco is amazing! I recently started using it and I'm impressed. I've done DWC, and I've been growing organic for along time. My coco grows have been as trouble free as my organics, and more productive! I'm going to try a 20 gallon DIY bottom fed coco pot in the fall just for giggles. My auto pots produce well enough for my needs. Then, I'll add a vertical scrog also. Just too busy with the greenhouse to start a new indoor project.
> 
> I look forward to seeing you resolve this issue, we all learn alot from you!


I've grown some pretty good chili peppers indoors in coco, but I didn't rock it very well with Cannabis on my first go. But this Tupur stuff looks rad, sort of a hydro soil hybrid mix, seems like. What pH range is your solution for it, @ttystikk?


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## ttystikk (Jul 11, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I've grown some pretty good chili peppers indoors in coco, but I didn't rock it very well with Cannabis on my first go. But this Tupur stuff looks rad, sort of a hydro soil hybrid mix, seems like. What pH range is your solution for it, @ttystikk?


Here's the queerest part; I'm still running the very same hydroponic nutrients I always was, even the same ratios. I've adjusted my EC upwards to 2.3-2.5 and pH to 6.0 in veg.

They're leaping for joy, it's a night and day difference. Rich green, visibly bigger every few hours, new leaf sets daily, etc.

Some credit surely goes to the 3500K COB LED lighting, this is by far the healthiest batch of plants I've grown indoors in a long time.

FUCK RDWC. Too damned finicky and shit never looked this good for me. I needn't wait to dial in, Tupur is powerful stuff.


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 11, 2016)

Some


ttystikk said:


> Here's the queerest part; I'm still timing the very same hydroponic nutrients I always was, in the same ratios. I've adjusted my EC upwards to 2.3-2.5 and pH to 6.0 in veg.
> 
> They're leaping for joy, it's a night and day difference. Rich green, visibly bigger every few hours, new leaf sets daily, etc.
> 
> ...


Sometimes simple is better....


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## DesertGrow89 (Jul 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's the queerest part; I'm still timing the very same hydroponic nutrients I always was, in the same ratios. I've adjusted my EC upwards to 2.3-2.5 and pH to 6.0 in veg.
> 
> They're leaping for joy, it's a night and day difference. Rich green, visibly bigger every few hours, new leaf sets daily, etc.
> 
> ...


How old are your plants when you are hitting an EC of 2.3-2.5? Are you top watering? My seedlings are two weeks old, also trying tupur but daily watering with just 0.2 EC.. Still trying to feel out the nutrient concentrations as I've burned the shit out of five week old plants with an EC of 0.6 before.


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## kiwipaulie (Jul 11, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> How old are your plants when you are hitting an EC of 2.3-2.5? Are you top watering? My seedlings are two weeks old, also trying tupur but daily watering with just 0.2 EC.. Still trying to feel out the nutrient concentrations as I've burned the shit out of five week old plants with an EC of 0.6 before.


Wow that's lol ec. My clones that a rooting at the moment are on 0.55ec and loving it. In veg id get it up to 1.3ec for plants that are 5 weeks old.


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## kiwipaulie (Jul 11, 2016)

I guess different strains will like different levels


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## ttystikk (Jul 11, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> How old are your plants when you are hitting an EC of 2.3-2.5? Are you top watering? My seedlings are two weeks old, also trying tupur but daily watering with just 0.2 EC.. Still trying to feel out the nutrient concentrations as I've burned the shit out of five week old plants with an EC of 0.6 before.


Young plants, like just rooted clones. I'm running strong lighting in early veg, 225W COB LED, which may help explain things. Yet the substrate is really doing an excellent job of buffering. I treat it like hydroton; I pour a lot more nutrient solution in than the pot needs, by easily 50% or more, and its drainage prevents saturation. Doing this of course prevents salt buildup, another bonus. 

I'm running a recirculating water system, think of it as a turbocharged SIPS. With luck, this will allow the plants to get as big as they want without being limited by pot size.


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## ttystikk (Jul 11, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Wow that's lol ec. My clones that a rooting at the moment are on 0.55ec and loving it. In veg id get it up to 1.3ec for plants that are 5 weeks old.


I said rooted clones. For rooting the clones themselves you have it right.


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## ttystikk (Jul 11, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> I guess different strains will like different levels


Not here. I have an embarrassing number of strains going and they all love it without exception. Every leaf is green. No burnt tips. Growing like mad. Any whisker of roots on a clone and it survives and thrives right away when transplanted into Tupur. Threw in a couple I thought wouldn't make it and they're fine. 

No, I'm not a Tupur sales rep, I swear lol


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## DesertGrow89 (Jul 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Young plants, like just rooted clones. I'm running strong lighting in early veg, 225W COB LED, which may help explain things. Yet the substrate is really doing an excellent job of buffering. I treat it like hydroton; I pour a lot more nutrient solution in than the pot needs, by easily 50% or more, and its drainage prevents saturation. Doing this of course prevents salt buildup, another bonus.
> 
> I'm running a recirculating water system, think of it as a turbocharged SIPS. With luck, this will allow the plants to get as big as they want without being limited by pot size.


So is pouring in a lot more solution than needed kind of like what rm3 describes as his make it rain technique? If your system is successful please share the results im interested in hearing about it.


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## OneHitDone (Jul 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's the queerest part; I'm still running the very same hydroponic nutrients I always was, even the same ratios. I've adjusted my EC upwards to 2.3-2.5 and pH to 6.0 in veg.
> 
> They're leaping for joy, it's a night and day difference. Rich green, visibly bigger every few hours, new leaf sets daily, etc.
> 
> ...


What happened to that magical nutrient profile you boys were concocting?


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## ttystikk (Jul 11, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> So is pouring in a lot more solution than needed kind of like what rm3 describes as his make it rain technique? If your system is successful please share the results im interested in hearing about it.


This is all about keeping it simple. Dry nutrient salts just like the hydroponics it still is, Tupur in pots of increasing size, I'm not draining to waste, I'm recycling for a few weeks and then dumping for a fresh batch. 

Once they're in their final 5 gallon bucket, they get some time to fill it in and grow up. Then for a few weeks before bloom, they go into a SIPS style tub, where the bottom is kept up to 6" deep in nutrient solution. They only get watered from the top occasionally. 

None have been moved into bloom yet, but I'm guessing the occasional topfeed will certainly help and will be a good delivery system for teas, etc.


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## ttystikk (Jul 11, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> What happened to that magical nutrient profile you boys were concocting?


I was gonna use mine until it showed weakness, then work out what was missing. So far, there doesn't seem to be anything missing... 

The guy who turned me on to Tupur gave me pH and EC ranges and I'm following them. My batch of veg girls look as healthy as any I've ever grown indoors, so I'm standing pat. Unless it's broken, I see little point in fixing it.


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## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2016)

Here's those veg girls I keep talking up;

225W of CXB3590 3500K doesn't hurt, either!


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## BM9AGS (Jul 12, 2016)

That's a beautiful veg area. I'm jealous


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## Chunky Stool (Jul 12, 2016)

The name of this thread sounds like a porn flick.
Just sayin...


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## pop22 (Jul 12, 2016)

You should test this on a few veg clones/seedlings: Make a hole in the medium in your pot, 2" wide ans 3" deep. I use a piece of 2" plastic pipe. File the hole with worm castings. Plant directly into that. the nutrients and micro life accelerate root development. I have seeds sprout 12-36 hours before those planted in any other fashion. Clones root quicker also. Just keep the nutes light for a week to ten days. You may find this to be another, incremental improvement.



ttystikk said:


> Here's those veg girls I keep talking up;
> View attachment 3730550
> 225W of CXB3590 3500K doesn't hurt, either!


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## pop22 (Jul 12, 2016)

And I've discover a use for rockwool....... bury nuclear waste in it, it never rots........... I stopped using it as it is a problem waste material, and it is an energy intensive to make.


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## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2016)

pop22 said:


> And I've discover a use for rockwool....... bury nuclear waste in it, it never rots........... I stopped using it as it is a problem waste material, and it is an energy intensive to make.


It seems to grow rot just fine, though.


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## ttystikk (Jul 14, 2016)

I installed an 860W CDM Allstart lamp in my prebloom veg, to give it some more horsepower. At first I ran it on a mag but just a couple days ago I borrowed a lfsw ballast from a buddy and I just got that installed. I can't tell whether it's making that much more light than the mag did, but every little bit helps!


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## OneHitDone (Jul 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I installed an 860W CDM Allstart lamp in my prebloom veg, to give it some more horsepower. At first I ran it on a mag but just a couple days ago I borrowed a lfsw ballast from a buddy and I just got that installed. I can't tell whether it's making that much more light than the mag did, but every little bit helps!


What ballast you running it on?


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## ttystikk (Jul 14, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> What ballast you running it on?


I borrowed an old Bad Ass ballast and I'm running it on its 1000W setting.


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## GroDank101 (Jul 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's those veg girls I keep talking up;
> View attachment 3730550
> 225W of CXB3590 3500K doesn't hurt, either!


Oh how I love this picture. Those plants look strong! They are all green, which tells me they must be growing fast! Really nice veg area. @ttystikk


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## pop22 (Jul 16, 2016)

What are you using for pots?



ttystikk said:


> This is all about keeping it simple. Dry nutrient salts just like the hydroponics it still is, Tupur in pots of increasing size, I'm not draining to waste, I'm recycling for a few weeks and then dumping for a fresh batch.
> 
> Once they're in their final 5 gallon bucket, they get some time to fill it in and grow up. Then for a few weeks before bloom, they go into a SIPS style tub, where the bottom is kept up to 6" deep in nutrient solution. They only get watered from the top occasionally.
> 
> None have been moved into bloom yet, but I'm guessing the occasional topfeed will certainly help and will be a good delivery system for teas, etc.


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## Sire Killem All (Jul 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I borrowed an old Bad Ass ballast and I'm running it on its 1000W setting.


, is the radiant heat from the lamp less on the lfsw then the high feq mag ballast?


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## ttystikk (Jul 16, 2016)

pop22 said:


> What are you using for pots?


Square gallon pots with openings all down the corners to encourage roots.


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## ttystikk (Jul 16, 2016)

Sire Killem All said:


> , is the radiant heat from the lamp less on the lfsw then the high feq mag ballast?


From the ballast? Definitely. Not at all sure about the lamp. It is making more light.


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## ttystikk (Jul 16, 2016)

GroDank101 said:


> Oh how I love this picture. Those plants look strong! They are all green, which tells me they must be growing fast! Really nice veg area. @ttystikk


My thinking exactly, so I'm excited to see how this substrate works in bloom!


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## ttystikk (Jul 16, 2016)

@testiclees I run two bloom rooms. One runs from 2am to 2pm. The other runs from 2pm to 2am. Thus only half the total wattage drawn and half the cooling required.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

GroDank101 said:


> Oh how I love this picture. Those plants look strong! They are all green, which tells me they must be growing fast! Really nice veg area. @ttystikk


This is the same table today, to give you a visual representation of their growth;


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## Fastslappy (Jul 17, 2016)

Nice very Nice !
I 'm back paying attn , been some drama here @ home the whole winter (no gro ) 
man what a long thread ,lottsa catch up to do 
my room's on hold till late summer greeenhouse gro full bore atm


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## a mongo frog (Jul 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This is the same table today, to give you a visual representation of their growth;
> View attachment 3734602


Have you ever lost a plant to broad mites? And if thats not broad mites, do you have any idea what it is? My og's show that from time to time.


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## GroDank101 (Jul 17, 2016)

Fast, & they look great! Looking forward to the rest of the grow!


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Have you ever lost a plant to broad mites? And if thats not broad mites, do you have any idea what it is? My og's show that from time to time.


What exactly are you referring to? Those plants are healthy. 

You always seem to have some kind of negative question.


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## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2016)

Just weighed the CSD from the latest crop; 27.6oz, making it the biggest plant I've ever pulled under HID lighting.


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## ttystikk (Jul 20, 2016)

Just started today on my new project; I'm gonna cram over 550 sq ft of growing area into less than 300 sq ft of floor space. All COB LED.


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## pop22 (Jul 20, 2016)

Sounds interesting!



ttystikk said:


> Just started today on my new project; I'm gonna cram over 550 sq ft of growing area into less than 300 sq ft of floor space. All COB LED.


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## ttystikk (Jul 21, 2016)

Sneak peek, Day 32. These are still in RDWC, Tupur next run. I think this pic came out nice;


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## GroErr (Jul 21, 2016)

Nice! The wall of weed getting bombarded with photons from the wall of light - looks StarTrekish, love it


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## ttystikk (Jul 21, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Nice! The wall of weed getting bombarded with photons from the wall of light - looks StarTrekish, love it


That's exactly what's up. I could only hope that Scotty and Mr Spock would approve.

'Fascinating...

Beam down some sample containers, Mr Chekov; we have some interesting specimens that require further study.'


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## OneHitDone (Jul 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sneak peek, Day 32. These are still in RDWC, Tupur next run. I think this pic came out nice;
> View attachment 3738046


Looks good, curious to see how you move the led arrays out of the way to work the plants


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## ttystikk (Jul 21, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Looks good, curious to see how you move the led arrays out of the way to work the plants


That's why they're covered with glass lenses, so I don't have to. I can work right in the space.


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## Frajola (Jul 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sneak peek, Day 32. These are still in RDWC, Tupur next run. I think this pic came out nice;
> View attachment 3738046


High tty,
Nice set up pal , loved it, and the ladies just look awesome, which strain is that?


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## ttystikk (Jul 21, 2016)

Frajola said:


> High tty,
> Nice set up pal , loved it, and the ladies just look awesome, which strain is that?


Background, at top; Blue Cheese
Middle; Jillybean
Foreground, just visible; star bud


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## Evil-Mobo (Jul 21, 2016)

Can't wait to taste my blue cheese


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## ttystikk (Jul 21, 2016)

I'm pretty happy with how things are coming along. I still think my next run will be a huge improvement due to better veg lighting plus the new substrate.


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## Michael Huntherz (Jul 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's why they're covered with glass lenses, so I don't have to. I can work right in the space.


Those lights aren't even close to hot, it is sort of crazy.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 22, 2016)

May I ask how much space the 27 oz plant took up?


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## ttystikk (Jul 22, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> May I ask how much space the 27 oz plant took up?


Same space all of them get; one trellis panel four feet wide by six feet tall. I've pulled two 32oz Chem Sour Diesel, a 30oz Hillbilly Hobby, a 27.6oz Chem Sour Diesel and a 26.25oz Bubblegum round out my top five biggest plants.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 22, 2016)

Thank you ttystikk. How deep including the lamp?

I grow under 2 air cooled hoods but am really interested in this vertical style.


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## ttystikk (Jul 22, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Thank you ttystikk. How deep including the lamp?
> 
> I grow under 2 air cooled hoods but am really interested in this vertical style.


COB to trellis distance is 30". Plants are on the inside of the trellis, vine clipped and wire tied into place. They'll easily get 15" thick.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 22, 2016)

This info gives me a great picture in my mind to work with. Thanks again. 

Even with a quick estimate. My 2 600's in Blockbuster hoods cover 3.5' x 7'. I grow perpetual from feminized seed 1 plant at a time with 7 or 8 flowering in different stages plugged in from a 30 day T-5 veg. Harvest a plant every week to 10 days. Monthly totals vary with strains and results of course but "about a pound" is average. 

If I removed the hoods and hung the HPS bulbs and trellised 3 sides (I have to stand somewhere in the little 9 x 7 room) it seems I could double my canopy. I bend all plants to 30" or shorter with many tops now. I have gotten much better results as time passes and am probably maxed out with my system. My results have been fantastic. I will post a pic for credibility and better advise. 

But this is a fun hobby too so of course it is time to play with a new system. So I will be paying attention.


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## ttystikk (Jul 22, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> This info gives me a great picture in my mind to work with. Thanks again.
> 
> Even with a quick estimate. My 2 600's in Blockbuster hoods cover 3.5' x 7'. I grow perpetual from feminized seed 1 plant at a time with 7 or 8 flowering in different stages plugged in from a 30 day T-5 veg. Harvest a plant every week to 10 days. Monthly totals vary with strains and results of course but "about a pound" is average.
> 
> ...


Nice crop!

Yes, I love the hobby just for its own sake and I love the innovation currently happening- even more that I feel a part of it.

Definitely cover all 4 sides, just put one pot and trellis on a dolly so you can roll it out of the way to access the tent!

When you remove the reflector, there are no more reflector losses but the light now scatters in all directions. Add up the new square footage and you'll see that number made a big jump too. Two 600W HPS lamps will handle up to 50 sq ft, for perspective that's just 4 sides 3 feet wide by 4 feet tall!


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## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 22, 2016)

No tent. Using a small spare room. I can't fit the 4th side. No where to roll it. And I have been sketching this out and think I would need it to beat my current set up. 

I started thinking about bare bulbs to surround trees but again space is always my issue in my old house with low ceilings. 

I will probably try something anyway sooner or later. 

Thanks again for the response.


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## ttystikk (Jul 22, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> No tent. Using a small spare room. I can't fit the 4th side. No where to roll it. And I have been sketching this out and think I would need it to beat my current set up.
> 
> I started thinking about bare bulbs to surround trees but again space is always my issue in my old house with low ceilings.
> 
> ...


There's a guy I know who hangs plants from the door into his vertical 'octagon'. Where there's a will, there's a way!


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## OneHitDone (Jul 25, 2016)

Hey brother @ttystikk , can you inform me again what a Philips 860 Allstart draws from the wall on a mag ballast without reading back through your whole thread?


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## ttystikk (Jul 25, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Hey brother @ttystikk , can you inform me again what a Philips 860 Allstart draws from the wall on a mag ballast without reading back through your whole thread?


860W on 208V, 1000W on 240V, plus a hundred watts to run the ballast itself, give or take.


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## OneHitDone (Jul 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 860W on 208V, 1000W on 240V, plus a hundred watts to run the ballast itself, give or take.


So where does the suggested energy savings come from with the Allstart line of lamps? It looks like they have a 360W for 400, 860W for 1000 etc?
I was under the assumption that the ballast determines the wattage draw, but maybe internal resistance of the lamp has an effect as well?

I just picked up a couple of these cobs to try over a veg area and notice approx 10W decrease from the cheap china lamps that came in the mini fixtures I run these in.


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## ttystikk (Jul 25, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> So where does the suggested energy savings come from with the Allstart line of lamps? It looks like they have a 360W for 400, 860W for 1000 etc?
> I was under the assumption that the ballast determines the wattage draw, but maybe internal resistance of the lamp has an effect as well?
> 
> I just picked up a couple of these cobs to try over a veg area and notice approx 10W decrease from the cheap china lamps that came in the mini fixtures I run these in.
> View attachment 3741651


Ask Philips. I don't know. All I can tell you is that I spent a lot of money on COB LED so I would have more efficient lighting.


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## ttystikk (Jul 27, 2016)

Jillybean


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## ttystikk (Jul 27, 2016)

Star Bud


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## ttystikk (Jul 27, 2016)




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## ttystikk (Jul 27, 2016)

....and the whole show.


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## ttystikk (Jul 27, 2016)

Any questions?


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## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 27, 2016)

What week are you at?


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## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 27, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> What week are you at?


You really have me creatively thinking about maximizing my space. I really only use half a room 

It's comfier to work but really a waste of space.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 27, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Yeah, will you re post all that when it is an awesome wall of buds? I really want to see that.


I'd say it's already pretty fuckin awesome for day 37, sport. You got better, post it.

There's more two pounders hiding in them thar bushes, I just know it!


----------



## Lucky Luke (Jul 27, 2016)

VN!


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 27, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> VN!


?


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 27, 2016)

doniawon said:


> I think he was referring to going vert in order to maximise his space?


Thank you very much. That is what I was saying.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 27, 2016)

I hope we can talk about light still?

I look at my horizontal grow as a three dimensional space. I have a low ceiling so I use 1 ft tall pots and have 30 inches to my max height from the lamps. 

I try very hard to fill the plant with buds top to bottom and have gotten pretty good at it but for work space in my little room I have half open to move plants around and clean and stuff so I have been thinking how to maximize. 

This is my story and I am sticking to it. 

I may end up with a two tree staggard perpetual a month apart and veg two taller plants to plug in and hang some HPS bulbs bare and vert and go from there. And leave one of my ac hoods running 3 or four plants while I experiment.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jul 27, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> VN!


Huh


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jul 27, 2016)

Looks awesome brother


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 27, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Looks awesome brother


It's all in the details... can you spot them?


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 27, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Looks awesome brother


I was thinking it was impressive too.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 27, 2016)

Oh. Thanks. I thought only mods can do that stuff. I will do as you asked.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 27, 2016)

I have cleaned up your thread of off topic content like you asked.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Jul 28, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Huh


Means Very Nice !....


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 28, 2016)

What is the heatsink/cooling system you are implementing here?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jul 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's all in the details... can you spot them?


Yessir. And its working


----------



## gr865 (Jul 28, 2016)

What is the cost of your lighting system?
Your plants look awesome by the way!
GR


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Jul 28, 2016)

day 37?


----------



## tstick (Jul 28, 2016)

Beautiful work, ttystikk!


----------



## Fastslappy (Jul 28, 2016)

I see Nugs


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

gr865 said:


> What is the cost of your lighting system?
> Your plants look awesome by the way!
> GR


That rack was a bit over 10k, all told and assembled.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> day 37?


Just three more weeks and we'll see how they look, huh?


----------



## gr865 (Jul 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That rack was a bit over 10k, all told and assembled.


As in $10,000.00, that's a shit load of money for a personal grow.

But the plants do look good.
GR


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

gr865 said:


> As in $10,000.00, that's a shit load of money for a personal grow.
> 
> But the plants do look good.
> GR


Lol I think you make too many assumptions. 

But thanks.


----------



## RM3 (Jul 28, 2016)

gr865 said:


> As in $10,000.00, that's a shit load of money for a personal grow.


But a drop in the bucket for designing a commercial system


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 28, 2016)

RM3 said:


> But a drop in the bucket for designing a commercial system


I like you RM3. You can put a positive spin on anything.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> What is the heatsink/cooling system you are implementing here?


I be chillin, yo


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 28, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> You know Tty. I left with respect even though you were still an ass. And still are.
> 
> But 10k for those stressed and yellow plants is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.


Guaranteed that he makes all that back and more from just one cycle. I think ty will adjust to the new lighting nutrient wise and you won't see the yellowing once it's dialed in. Speaking from experience, the plants grow a bit different under the LEDs. 

I would not underestimate ty or those plants though. I anticipate his yield will still be quite good.

Wouldn't you reinvest 10k to improve your op? Especially if it was paid for in less than one cycle?


----------



## Fastslappy (Jul 28, 2016)

what u use for nutes Ty ? 
not that I know anything about your res & system

for that matter Any hydro sys 

I'm a amended coco guy in organic teas


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 28, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Guaranteed that he makes all that back and more from just one cycle. I think ty will adjust to the new lighting nutrient wise and you won't see the yellowing once it's dialed in. Speaking from experience, the plants grow a bit different under the LEDs.
> 
> I would not underestimate ty or those plants though. I anticipate his yield will still be quite good.
> 
> Wouldn't you reinvest 10k to improve your op? Especially if it was paid for in less than one cycle?


Good argument but no. If we are talking money and time it is at least double to much. I have a $1300 2 light room that produces about a pound per month with a small fluorescent veg setup that cost about $300. 

So if his room does 3 pounds and it is easily movable (another argument) and looking at it I don't think it will but if it did we are still short of what you say. 

And if we use a 2 month period in my perpetual multi strain grow I will have more than half that weight for a fraction of the cost. And that is figuring very light. 

Now if I want to run high yielding clones through my system and grow the whole session at once I would do 2.5 to 3 pounds of commercial weed every 2 months. 

So I could get close with my little investment. 

Now if we want to talk quality we will have to wait til he dials in that spaceship. That grow will not produce the quality I need consistently for patients this run. 

Although I agree he may get dialed in. In which case he has more light and space than me to grow so he would win for yield but for 6 times the cost. And I am really only concerned with quality first so I might win there also. I worried about growing plants well not playing with toys. 

We need our meds. And they have to be consistently available and high quality or they don't help anyone.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jul 28, 2016)

Dude.....Commercial lighting system being designed-tested.....

Big picture not small 1


----------



## Fastslappy (Jul 28, 2016)

gonna try a vert gro with 3590's come fall in SIPs (inspiration from Hyroot ! ) /w organic teas 
but with amended coco instead of super-soil type thingy


----------



## Afgan King (Jul 28, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Good argument but no. If we are talking money and time it is at least double to much. I have a $1300 2 light room that produces about a pound per month with a small fluorescent veg setup that cost about $300.
> 
> So if his room does 3 pounds and it is easily movable (another argument) and looking at it I don't think it will but if it did we are still short of what you say.
> 
> ...


His meds are just fine and getting better give it time man idk why you gotta hassle the man over his own shit just wait he's got some shit coming I'm making sure of it and he's doing a hell of a job his rooms design dialed in it can do a hell of a lot. The potential is there just wait till the tupur runs start coming thru he might notbe running my system exactly but from what I'm seeing in person it's gonna be good and worth tuning in for


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 28, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> His meds are just fine and getting better give it time man idk why you gotta hassle the man over his own shit just wait he's got some shit coming I'm making sure of it and he's doing a hell of a job his rooms design dialed in it can do a hell of a lot. The potential is there just wait till the tupur runs start coming thru he might notbe running my system exactly but from what I'm seeing in person it's gonna be good and worth tuning in for


I said he could get dialed in. 

And he knows why I gave him a little nudge. 

He is obviously fully dedicated and I actually respect that.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 28, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Dude.....Commercial lighting system being designed-tested.....
> 
> Big picture not small 1


A commercial operation would scale up from where I learned to scale down from. 

And a lighting companies tests and documentation are what a commercial operation would start with. And then they would only try a table or two to see their result without hurting the operations production. 

Do it yourself commercial lighting. I don't think so

As a hobby grow. Which is what it still is really. It is freaking awesome. I already said so and asked questions about it. 

sorry I am not supporting experimental technology where our meds are concerned. But I am interested in new technology too. When it becomes viable for our purpose.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jul 28, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Do it yourself commercial lighting. I don't think so


Dude no disrespect, but your wrong. Dudes getting more than 2 pounds per 4x6 area with i think way less then 800 watts. Scale that up and your saving tons of money.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> what u use for nutes Ty ?
> not that I know anything about your res & system
> 
> for that matter Any hydro sys
> ...


Lol I'm now running in an amended coco substrate. 

Hydro-gardens.com


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Good argument but no. If we are talking money and time it is at least double to much. I have a $1300 2 light room that produces about a pound per month with a small fluorescent veg setup that cost about $300.
> 
> So if his room does 3 pounds and it is easily movable (another argument) and looking at it I don't think it will but if it did we are still short of what you say.
> 
> ...


Holy shit. Are you seriously sitting in my thread talking out your ass and saying I don't know anything? 

The door is right there. Time you used it.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Dude no disrespect, but your wrong. Dudes getting more than 2 pounds per 4x6 area with i think way less then 800 watts. Scale that up and your saving tons of money.


900W, but the real savings is in the floor space and HVAC. Huckleberry already knows it all tho, so no need to waste his time explaining it.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> A commercial operation would scale up from where I learned to scale down from.
> 
> And a lighting companies tests and documentation are what a commercial operation would start with. And then they would only try a table or two to see their result without hurting the operations production.
> 
> ...


This whole thing is a contradiction. I asked you to clean up your garbage last night. Stop littering in my thread.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Guaranteed that he makes all that back and more from just one cycle. I think ty will adjust to the new lighting nutrient wise and you won't see the yellowing once it's dialed in. Speaking from experience, the plants grow a bit different under the LEDs.
> 
> I would not underestimate ty or those plants though. I anticipate his yield will still be quite good.
> 
> Wouldn't you reinvest 10k to improve your op? Especially if it was paid for in less than one cycle?


Some people you just can't reach...


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jul 28, 2016)

Piss doesnt go together with cheerios eh. I don't like the taste either


----------



## pop22 (Jul 28, 2016)

obviously you were too busy listening to yourself talk, because he's growing about 2LB per PLANT moron! When you can do that with your" two lights" then come back and run your mouth. Put up, or shut up!



MichiganMedGrower said:


> Good argument but no. If we are talking money and time it is at least double to much. I have a $1300 2 light room that produces about a pound per month with a small fluorescent veg setup that cost about $300.
> 
> So if his room does 3 pounds and it is easily movable (another argument) and looking at it I don't think it will but if it did we are still short of what you say.
> 
> ...


----------



## verticalgrow (Jul 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 900W, but the real savings is in the floor space and HVAC. Huckleberry already knows it all tho, so no need to waste his time explaining it.


g'day tty,
Are u running the drivers @ 1400ma?
Are COBS all 4k?
Amazing setup & its looks better then i could have imagined.
VG


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 28, 2016)

pop22 said:


> obviously you were too busy listening to yourself talk, because he's growing about 2LB per PLANT moron! When you can do that with your" two lights" then come back and run your mouth. Put up, or shut up!


He says 2 pounds. The pics of plants posted will never do that. If you are all so interested in proof. I posted pics where they were appropriate. In the removing fan leaves thread and the show off thread. 

I came to this thread interested and respectful. It is you guys that think it's a contest. 

And I am pretty sure my little garden is a few pages back and was complimented by TTy. 

So much for Internet discussions all over I guess. 

I erased many of my posts for the op but he didn't even thank me or even apologize for his and his buddies childish behavior. I didn't start anything. You guys actually get emotional over a random post. 

And the kids that were pestering me all night (and I admit they got to me ) are already cursing out members on other threads. 

Shame people will be like this always. This is a Marijuana forum. Chill out.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jul 28, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> He says 2 pounds. The pics of plants posted will never do that. If you are all so interested in proof. I posted pics where they were appropriate. In the removing fan leaves thread and the show off thread.
> 
> I came to this thread interested and respectful. It is you guys that think it's a contest.
> 
> ...


Oh man......... Don't have hurt feelings bro. Your garden is nice. But saying some of the things you said were a little out of line, so you got a little trolled. No big deal. You'll end up being a fine gardener one day friend. Its an absolute must you don't walk this forum like a know it all. We can gauge your experience in seconds bro. Be happy!!!!


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 28, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Oh man......... Don't have hurt feelings bro. Your garden is nice. But saying some of the things you said were a little out of line, so you got a little trolled. No big deal. You'll end up being a fine gardener one day friend. Its an absolute must you don't walk this forum like a know it all. We can gauge your experience in seconds bro. Be happy!!!!


Thank you Mongo

trolls from another thread decided to follow me here and I already admitted they shook me up. 

I never related anything I have not learned from already successful growers. I copied them. If someone wants to make claims they should have proof. And not an entirely sick garden. It is a difficult process and some should be getting help rather than giving it. 

My arguments and interest were valid. The gang of buddies argument has yet to be proved and documented. Or even show success. But all want my proof first. 

I probably shouldn't have been mean. But I am honest and those were my feelings after being here for only 2 days. 

On the other hand I have met professional medical growers that are here in Michigan and that was really why I joined. And they don't seem to want to argue with my comments. 

So oh well. Not a good "forum" for learning. I will go back to reading books and consulting professionals. 

No loss for either of us I guess here. I won't post in this thread again. But thanks for trying man.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 28, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Thank you Mongo
> 
> trolls from another thread decided to follow me here and I already admitted they shook me up.
> 
> ...


You're kind of pompus sounding sometimes.

You demand proof from others but will not provide proof of your claims.

Sorry but people will call you in it.

Now you can take that the wrong way, or correct it. Its up to you.

Either way I have no problem with you.

Just an observation.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> g'day tty,
> Are u running the drivers @ 1400ma?
> Are COBS all 4k?
> Amazing setup & its looks better then i could have imagined.
> VG


Thank you for the kind words! I've worked at it for years now and I feel like I'm finally starting to get somewhere interesting. 

They're Cree CXB3590 CB bin 3500K 72V chips, driven at 700mA. This is effectively the same as running 36V chips at 1400mA. My Meanwell B type driver will give 8% over is maximum output if the dimming leads are capped off, so my chips run at about 54W each.


----------



## pinner420 (Jul 28, 2016)

Just to lighten the mood... Greet the day with love!!


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Just to lighten the mood... Greet the day with love!! View attachment 3744285


Sooooooooo... is that an orchid or a Pokémon?


----------



## Afgan King (Jul 28, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> He says 2 pounds. The pics of plants posted will never do that. If you are all so interested in proof. I posted pics where they were appropriate. In the removing fan leaves thread and the show off thread.
> 
> I came to this thread interested and respectful. It is you guys that think it's a contest.
> 
> ...


I've personally seen his 32oz plants they are real and he's underachieving the tupur is coming thru soon shit bout to get real just wait


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I've personally seen his 32oz plants they are real and he's underachieving the tupur is coming thru soon shit bout to get real just wait


Lol, you're the only one I let call me an under achiever.


----------



## Afgan King (Jul 28, 2016)

Lol all I can say is just wait the consistency that's about to happen is gonna be astonishing adding the buffer of tupur was best thing you could've done to stabilize everything. Your already seeing same growth rate if not faster lol just wait


ttystikk said:


> Lol, you're the only one I let call me an under achiever.


----------



## pinner420 (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sooooooooo... is that an orchid or a Pokémon?


Not sure pirated it off icmag....


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jul 29, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Not sure pirated it off icmag....


Sort of looks like a bee on an orchid


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 29, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> You're kind of pompus sounding sometimes.
> 
> You demand proof from others but will not provide proof of your claims.
> 
> ...


That is fair and probably true about me. I actually only had a problem with three people. But they trolled me all night and I am new at forums but not growing and did not just ignore them like I should have. I actually have no problem with anybody. I came here for the same thing as all of you. I found some great growers in the last few days. Even some here in Michigan doing what I do. And the op could have been a gentlemen about it. Instead of a control freak feeding his ego. I tried honestly to make things right in his thread and he never said anything back to me to make things right too. So I fought back a little. 

I said I would leave this thread but you guys know I had to look to see if there were more responses. 

As for proof. I had posted it on 2 other threads before the trolls started in on me. I didn't mean to make any claims here I got upset. I was asking questions here when I came in. 

And I posted my garden a few pages back here too. But just a pic for credibility. Everyone is asking me to re post. And my avatar is the picture in question. In case anyone really cares what I do look on CH9 Seeds on Facebook and Instagram. My pics are there with my user name. He posts them. I just emailed questions and chatting over the last couple of years. Again. I am not affiliated with his company. He is in Spain. 

I really did not mean to over react. But I won't be posting in the op's threads anymore.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Lol all I can say is just wait the consistency that's about to happen is gonna be astonishing adding the buffer of tupur was best thing you could've done to stabilize everything. Your already seeing same growth rate if not faster lol just wait


True story on the growth; there was a bit of a pause at first, then everything exploded!

I blame the combination of Tupur, nutes, great phenos and COB LED lighting. It's like everything just clicked.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Jul 29, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> You know Tty. I left with respect even though you were still an ass. And still are.
> 
> But 10k for those stressed and yellow plants is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.



but pretty damn nice buds for 36 days..he just needs to dial a few things in more..it does look like a good outcome..[for the colas anway]


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

32oz from 8 sq ft of floor space isn't too shabby, IMO.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> What is the heatsink/cooling system you are implementing here?


Come on, come on, keep digging; you're sooooooooo close to the biggest innovation of the whole damn thing!


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Come on, come on, keep digging; you're sooooooooo close to the biggest innovation of the whole damn thing!


I can see your using a water cooled heat sink of some sort. Don't tell me you have heater cores zip tied to the bag of some cpu coolers?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> I can see your using a water cooled heat sink of some sort. Don't tell me you have heater cores zip tied to the bag of some cpu coolers?


Here's the 'CPU cooler', lol;


...and you're getting warmer...


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 29, 2016)

Just curious what you have the cobs bolted down to?
Obviously, you are the only person on this site running cobs that truly has proper control of operating temps at the chips


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Some people you just can't reach...



That's what the ignore button is for. Lol

Your lighting system is water cooled isn't it? 

I see the bucket below, condensation catch? I know u have that bad ass water chiller doing all sorts of stuff.


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 29, 2016)

Haha didn't see those recent posts till my lost went through.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Just curious what you have the cobs bolted down to?
> Obviously, you are the only person on this site running cobs that truly has proper control of operating temps at the chips





SomeGuy said:


> That's what the ignore button is for. Lol
> 
> Your lighting system is water cooled isn't it?
> 
> I see the bucket below, condensation catch? I know u have that bad ass water chiller doing all sorts of stuff.


And we have the WINNERS! 

It's 2"x4"x 3/16" thick aluminum bar stock. End caps and mounting tabs welded on and tapped for 1/2" NPT.

The chips, holders, lenses, wiring and driver are all mounted directly to the outside, thermally joined yet completely separate from the water (1/3 gallon!) inside. It was meant to be water resistant but this is a first whack at it and so these aren't perfect. 

The chiller delivers 55 degree water, so the blocks and chips are also 55 degrees. 

For extra credit, why would I go to all this trouble?


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> And we have the WINNERS!
> 
> It's 2"x4"x 3/16" thick aluminum bar stock. End caps and mounting tabs welded on and tapped for 1/2" NPT.
> 
> ...



To develop an industrial, scalable, system. Incorporating all cooling done by an efficient water chiller vs fans, ac etc... probably cheaper to run also.


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 29, 2016)

Pretty obvious lol
Max consistent light output from the led's and temp control of the environment


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 29, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Pretty obvious lol
> Max consistent light output from the led's and temp control of the environment



He's doing well now with it too. Once dialed in w all this new stuff he will be on easy street. I'm actually envious of the environmental control and the all cob setup. 

Ty, you have me thinking w those shots of the whole setup. Do you diagram your room? Ground plan style? I'd love a top view and view of entire setup and machinery. Color me Impressed


----------



## Chunky Stool (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's the 'CPU cooler', lol;
> View attachment 3744644
> 
> ...and you're getting warmer...


Check out the tree growing out of that little pot...
Magic!


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> He's doing well now with it too. Once dialed in w all this new stuff he will be on easy street. I'm actually envious of the environmental control and the all cob setup.
> 
> Ty, you have me thinking w those shots of the whole setup. Do you diagram your room? Ground plan style? I'd love a top view and view of entire setup and machinery. Color me Impressed


I'm changing too much too often to keep up with drawings at this point, but as things coalesce over the next few months I should be able to do something along those lines. 

Thanks, man. It's been a lot of hard work.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Pretty obvious lol
> Max consistent light output from the led's and temp control of the environment


Lol would you believe that my biggest environmental control problem is now how to ADD enough heat to keep it warm enough and continue to dehuey? LMAO!

Cold chips... let's peek down that rabbit hole a sec. Y'all of course know about thermal droop, right? Hotter chips run less efficiently, potentially even leading to runaway overheating? Well, the opposite is also true, even below the Cree test temp of 25C/77F.

I'm running my chips as much as TEN PERCENT more efficiently than those running hot passive setups, and at least FIVE PERCENT more efficiently than even the best ambient plus active cooled systems, to include CPU coolers. 

And no matter what bins may come, my fixture will make your COB LED chip perform better than anyone else's at the same drive current. 

Any fool can post a youtube clip of him washing his light without unplugging it first. The trick is to have a good reason to do it. 

Class dismissed.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Pretty obvious lol
> Max consistent light output from the led's and temp control of the environment


It's always obvious- in hindsight.


----------



## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I blame the combination of Tupur, nutes,


 Ty,

"tupur" what is that ? 
looks like coco & perlite mixed for the buyer is all . 

am I wrong , is there a secret sauce in it ? 
not being an ass here , but I used coco for 20 years & I've never seen this stuff & i'm in NorCal


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> Ty,
> 
> "tupur" what is that ?
> looks like coco & perlite mixed for the buyer is all .
> ...


I don't pretend to know a lot about coco, I do not. I tried straight coco awhile ago and I was disappointed.

'Tupur royal gold' is the specific stuff, they say it has coco, perlite and compost plus some minor amendments. I got interested in it when I saw just how consistently green everything was when I visited a friend's facility. They were using brand name water bottles nutes and slaying it- 1gpw with SE HPS lighting, no less.

I've had consistency problems with my RDWC for years and while I've made lots of improvements it's still very much a dynamically unstable system- as anyone running one will attest.

I plugged my existing dry nute formula into Tupur and the results are very simply 100% consistent. Even a lil plant I thought sure was a goner coming out of the cloner made it and is now thriving.

I haven't lost any growth performance in the switch either, and vigor is better than ever. Some have suggested I just had my nutes wrong for RDWC and they may have a point, but that alone doesn't address all the problems I had before- and don't anymore.

Drown the fuck out of it and it drains to the perfect moisture level. It likes similar pH and it wants a bit higher EC. As I said, I'm running the same nutrients in the same ratios and it went from struggling to spectacular.

I'm even running ebb n flood with it in some stages and the plants are responding like gangbusters. That's a natural lead in to a transplant into a 5 gallon bucket- Tupur means 2 buckets per bag, according to some witty soul lol- and then watered from underneath, SIPS style.

Hybrid hydro, all the advantages while eliminating the shortcomings.


----------



## Frajola (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's the 'CPU cooler', lol;
> View attachment 3744644
> 
> ...and you're getting warmer...


u brought the north pole into ur house, lol. Now i got ur freezing problems, lol . Isn' t cob led cooler than hids?


----------



## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't pretend to know a lot about coco, I do not. I tried straight coco awhile ago and I was disappointed.
> 
> Hybrid hydro, all the advantages while eliminating the shortcomings.


copy that , I use a pumice/biochar(precharged) oyster,dio earth , hibrix rock flours + amendments mix
And now am using this mix organically now for 1st time in da G/H tit's up in there 
pm if ya wanna see how & what goes into it ,don't wanna dump yer thread


----------



## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

If u use coco ya gotta use yucca
for the most part as a wetting agent but it is a biocatalyst as well
4 yer reading
http://maximumyield.com/blog/2014/07/01/yucca-a-gardening-secret-from-the-desert/
I use the SD yucca (spray dried) powder edit that Tupur is expensive
i pay $19 a bag for premium desalted canna coco


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Jul 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> If u use coco ya gotta use yucca
> for the most part as a wetting agent but it is a biocatalyst as well
> 4 yer reading
> http://maximumyield.com/blog/2014/07/01/yucca-a-gardening-secret-from-the-desert/
> ...


Not sure if that guys an expert on plant nutrition or a salesman? He didn't cite any sources

"Use it generously in your root flushes and teach your plants to beat the heat." lol

We fog our outdoor plants in 100 gallon pots twice a day with NOGs yucca extract and thrivealive green or growswitch. Not sure how beneficial those products are, but the water knocks off any potential bugs and moves branches around a bit.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jul 29, 2016)

Teach your plants to beat the heat LMAO. Sounds like a fucking salesman eh


----------



## Afgan King (Jul 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> Ty,
> 
> "tupur" what is that ?
> looks like coco & perlite mixed for the buyer is all .
> ...


That is my doing lol it is a special mix honestly it gives you stability and buffer of soil with hydroponic growth. It's Coco, organic compost from Oregon woods, and perlite. Shits amazing seen alot of coco grows nothing works like it it's why I use it and why the company I worked for used it. It's pretty magic


----------



## Afgan King (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't pretend to know a lot about coco, I do not. I tried straight coco awhile ago and I was disappointed.
> 
> 'Tupur royal gold' is the specific stuff, they say it has coco, perlite and compost plus some minor amendments. I got interested in it when I saw just how consistently green everything was when I visited a friend's facility. They were using brand name water bottles nutes and slaying it- 1gpw with SE HPS lighting, no less.
> 
> ...


"They" lol u can use my name buddy lol


----------



## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> That is my doing lol it is a special mix honestly it gives you stability and buffer of soil with hydroponic growth. It's Coco, organic compost from Oregon woods, and perlite. Shits amazing seen alot of coco grows nothing works like it it's why I use it and why the company I worked for used it. It's pretty magic


my mix is basically that coco & compost I just add / use pumice & precharged charcoal as well
the pumice is actually easy to find ,animal & livestock feed stores sell under the name 'DryStall'
it is mined fine grade pure pumice about 1/4 to an 1/8" with some fines 100% pumice
used in horse barns to keep the horses from slipping on wet &/or hard surfaces
I get @ local feed store for $10.oo 40lb bag
Ty your in horse country
pumice holds water & releases slowly also a home for bacto life
here's a pix soo i'm not blowing smoke , my last indoor phantom cookies


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## Afgan King (Jul 29, 2016)

I like it I've been starting to add different things to it this time going to get a bail of hay to add to top of mine and gonna start compost tea prob every other feeding and I am using a water soluble mycos so basically trying to inoculate it as much as possible. I use canna and everyone will say it kills microbial life but I've seen mushrooms and all sorts of random lil growths in the tupur from the compost. I'm gonna keep inoculating to see if I notice a difference why I'm adding the hay to top of pots for bacteria and fungi


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> If u use coco ya gotta use yucca
> for the most part as a wetting agent but it is a biocatalyst as well
> 4 yer reading
> http://maximumyield.com/blog/2014/07/01/yucca-a-gardening-secret-from-the-desert/
> ...


Oooooo I Like the yucca idea! I've been told I need an enzyme, but you have made me wonder if what I need instead is just a wetting agent, to help the SIPS move water thru the substrate.


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## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> "They" lol u can use my name buddy lol


The 'they' I was referring to was actually Tupur themselves, I was paraphrasing their descriptive blurb from the bag itself.

I'm proud of our association, my friend. I figured I'd make sure it was all right with you before I talked your grow up.


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I use canna and everyone will say it kills microbial life


they kill with over nutes lol


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## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> That is my doing lol it is a special mix honestly it gives you stability and buffer of soil with hydroponic growth. It's Coco, organic compost from Oregon woods, and perlite. Shits amazing seen alot of coco grows nothing works like it it's why I use it and why the company I worked for used it. It's pretty magic


That's a pretty good description of my experience with it so far, as well.


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Oooooo I Like the yucca idea! I've been told I need an enzyme, but you have made me wonder if what I need instead is just a wetting agent, to help the SIPS move water thru the substrate.


I use enzymes as well
they work very well to breakdown organics


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## Afgan King (Jul 29, 2016)

Oh it's all buddy I'm just yankin some chains lol I like what your doing modifying mine and yours into this wonderful mix that looks like it's gonna slay gotta figure out nutes but shouldn't take more than a couple runs


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## Afgan King (Jul 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> I use enzymes as well
> they work very well to breakdown organics


What enzymes you use been looking to replace cannazyme shit works amazing but pricey


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## Afgan King (Jul 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> they kill with over nutes lol


I nute to all hell but no burn lol my ppm last run was 2210 on 500 scale week 6-8 with no burn we hit em hard never really let off but tupur kills it no issues never salt buildup


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yucca-Extract-Yucca-Schidigera-Saponin-Powder-Wet-Betty-WETTING-AGENT-SM-90-/161289126445
food grade 
the guy ships fast


----------



## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> What enzymes you use been looking to replace cannazyme shit works amazing but pricey


http://www.ebay.com/itm/55-grams-ENZYME-SOLUBLE-POWDER-enzymes-Hydro-Grow-ZYME-Pure-CONCENTRATED-Enzymes-/172250473977?hash=item281aeda5f9
I use at 1/8 tsp per 5 gal to breakdown alfalfa , ground dry fish , kelp goes along long long way


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I nute to all hell but no burn lol my ppm last run was 2210 on 500 scale week 6-8 with no burn we hit em hard never really let off but tupur kills it no issues never salt buildup


my nute soup is soo thick I quit measuring ppm with the organics


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## Afgan King (Jul 29, 2016)

I use it essentially to clean roots does wonders when pushing high nutes and trying to keep roots clean and free from salt build up. We push it but plants love it 


Fastslappy said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/55-grams-ENZYME-SOLUBLE-POWDER-enzymes-Hydro-Grow-ZYME-Pure-CONCENTRATED-Enzymes-/172250473977?hash=item281aeda5f9
> I use at 1/8 tsp per 5 gal to breakdown alfalfa , ground dry fish , kelp goes along long long way


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> What enzymes you use been looking to replace cannazyme shit works amazing but pricey


Sounds like your own your way to building super tupur. Cool


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002FU68XG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
use with enzymes & get way less smell than the liquid fish jugs cheaper too 
very easy to handle again not buying water 
100% ground sardine & anchovy catch off San Diego & nor Mexico 
not just waste fish guts like the jugs


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

I bought a $100.oo jug of the Kyle kushman vegan enzyme , that powder works way way better than the jug


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## Afgan King (Jul 29, 2016)

I like I like


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I nute to all hell but no burn lol my ppm last run was 2210 on 500 scale week 6-8 with no burn we hit em hard never really let off but tupur kills it no issues never salt buildup


I was hitting those #'s with the Nova line from G'H used rock resnator & terpinator as well in last summer g/h gro 
my Strawberry Cough plants hit the roof on all most every cola 11' ceilings


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

i use 2/3 of a 32 x 22 " greenhouse att'd to south wall of the house , i open my backdoor & step in the g/h
12 plants 215 CA compliant
last 1/3 is rare plants that once were a ebay business


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## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> I was hitting those #'s with the Nova line from G'H used rock resnator & terpinator as well in last summer g/h gro
> my Strawberry Cough plants hit the roof on all most every cola 11' ceilings


I like the sound of that!


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

I should add i also use LAB plus the enzymes to breakdown the kelp ect


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> I should add i also use LAB plus the enzymes to breakdown the kelp ect


LAB is a big contributor to your mix I believe


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## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> I should add i also use LAB plus the enzymes to breakdown the kelp ect


LAB is...?


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## SomeGuy (Jul 29, 2016)

Lacto-bacteria. It does rock. Anaerobic microbes


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## Fastslappy (Jul 29, 2016)

the Johnson gro lite guy turned me on to these guys will save you a wad of cash 
I'm buying the powders before they get mixed into jugs & over sold to you guys by the Hydrostores 



http://www.mbferts.com/

my secret weapon http://www.mbferts.com/Hydrolyzed-Whey-Protein-Food-Grade-Amino-Acid-Protein-Shake-690.htm


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

http://theunconventionalfarmer.com


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

That stuff rocks Ttystikk!!!. Also I use the bloom fert as well


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> LAB is a big contributor to your mix I believe


I just started the LAB with the enzyme the process is quicker & more complete
been using the enzyme over 2 years consistent results the LAB just 2 months 
but both rocks breakdown


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## ttystikk (Jul 30, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Lacto-bacteria. It does rock. Anaerobic microbes


Sour milk bugs?


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

Its the cheese after milk goes to curd then amplified with sugars


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

It helps uptake tenfold


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

Well it does alot of things. Look at its uses....


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

bird shit bat shit bug shit rounds out the nutes + fulvic & humic 
gotta have my chitline to turn on the bug protection


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

it's sold as EM2...inoculate .............. LAB that is


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> bird shit bat shit bug shit rounds out the nutes + fulvic & humic
> gotta have my chitline to turn on the bug protection


I use alot of EWC instead. Neem cake in mix to keep bugs at bay. Plus the neem has alot of micros


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I use alot of EWC instead. Neem cake in mix to keep bugs at bay. Plus the neem has alot of micros


I just did top feed with that knocked down the nats , I use ladybugs for mites one can a week
haven't seen one yet
my 1st gh gro was a disaster mite city colas covered in webs 
My worm farm is done just gotta harvest & start brewing did trail run of my new brewer today


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

I utilize fresh aloe for foliars starting out young and that builds up their resistence to shit (ie mites). When they do pop their heads up I mince some hot chilis, garlic, aloe and foliar with that for a bit. Mites arent really bad here though, nothing like a fucking cali russet


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

Aloe also acts as a wetting agent


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

i'm in cali & they be bad
but everyone around uses them LB the local nurseries sell them just 4 weed , they even stock G/H & Jungle juice , fox farm bloom booster , amazing that mainstream vendors stock MJ nutes


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Aloe also acts as a wetting agent


it's expensive next to yucca for a wetting agent , I've got some dried aloe for cloning haven't used it yet


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> it's expensive next to yucca for a wetting agent , I've got some dried aloe for cloning haven't used it yet


Grow your own man


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

I breed aloes , the vera's are difficult with winter ,here,
i breed for wild colors & thorns


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

Plus of living in a tropical climate I guess. You wouldnt need much, couple plants should suffice. They would grow fine indoors as well in the winter but you prolly know that.


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Plus of living in a tropical climate I guess. You wouldnt need much, couple plants should suffice. They would grow fine indoors as well in the winter but you prolly know that.


the vera 4 me are bug magnets so they had to go once mj hit the gh


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> the vera 4 me are bug magnets so they had to go once mj hit the gh


Thats weird. I have fkn aloe vera galore


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

And actually have grown in same pots before as companion plants. Never had that


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

The lb's sleep in the aloes lol


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

Meallies


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

Different climate I guess. There are zero bugs in the 1's here and Ive been on the same patio for almost 10 years same aloe plants just alot more


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## Fastslappy (Jul 30, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I'm adding the hay to top of pots for bacteria and fungi


@Afgan King does the hay help with fungus gnats ? 
I just raked & aerated the pot surfaces , I get a build up of solids kelp & ganou , ect , that I want mixed in better just a 1/2 " down rake but I do use a hand claw to sink it's tines into the surface 3" & give a slight tug , there a mass of tiny furry roots everywhere that I gotta open up for oxigen & keep from pooling . the mat of roots is that thick it holds back water so to get quickest adsorption i open up the surface , i do this every week


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## Afgan King (Jul 30, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> @Afgan King does the hay help with fungus gnats ?
> I just raked & aerated the pot surfaces , I get a build up of solids kelp & ganou , ect , that I want mixed in better just a 1/2 " down rake but I do use a hand claw to sink it's tines into the surface 3" & give a slight tug , there a mass of tiny furry roots everywhere that I gotta open up for oxigen & keep from pooling . the mat of roots is that thick it holds back water so to get quickest adsorption i open up the surface , i do this every week


I'll let u know adding it tomorrow lol


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## Vnsmkr (Jul 30, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> @Afgan King does the hay help with fungus gnats ?
> I just raked & aerated the pot surfaces , I get a build up of solids kelp & ganou , ect , that I want mixed in better just a 1/2 " down rake but I do use a hand claw to sink it's tines into the surface 3" & give a slight tug , there a mass of tiny furry roots everywhere that I gotta open up for oxigen & keep from pooling . the mat of roots is that thick it holds back water so to get quickest adsorption i open up the surface , i do this every week


It should help w fungus knats yes


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## Afgan King (Jul 31, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> It should help w fungus knats yes


Dope yet another positive to adding it lol


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## Fastslappy (Jul 31, 2016)

I use Natrol once aweek . it a BT product has the same shit as a mosquito dunk 
some Hydro on-line stores have small amounts of 4 sale it's a general AG product 
small pint jar has lasted 2 years & i'm still got 2/3 of it it's granular like corn meal & it sinks fast 
use much like Great white soak the top dress area with a gallon mix of 1/4 tsp + glug molasses in a gallon of R/O 
I add to my water storage bbls as well for the mosquitoes


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## ttystikk (Jul 31, 2016)

Why I do what I do; 
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/upshot/first-rule-of-the-job-hunt-find-something-you-love-to-do.html


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## pop22 (Aug 1, 2016)

How is it you run high EC salt nutes in a medium containing compost? Isn't that a waste? Or is this whole thing of non-organic nutes killing micro life just another garden myth? 



Afgan King said:


> I nute to all hell but no burn lol my ppm last run was 2210 on 500 scale week 6-8 with no burn we hit em hard never really let off but tupur kills it no issues never salt buildup


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 1, 2016)

pop22 said:


> How is it you run high EC salt nutes in a medium containing compost? Isn't that a waste? Or is this whole thing of non-organic nutes killing micro life just another garden myth?


Its not like he is trying to run a ROLS with it. Why wouldnt it work?


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 1, 2016)

You only kill microbe life if u build up too much salt for one, second why wouldn't it work even if it did I mean it would still be a medium of coco perlite and organic matter. There's something different with it I an tell you that for sure because I've seen side by sides of coco and tupur and Coco with perlite and tupur and tupur wins every time the root balls that build up I'm there are massive


pop22 said:


> How is it you run high EC salt nutes in a medium containing compost? Isn't that a waste? Or is this whole thing of non-organic nutes killing micro life just another garden myth?


----------



## pop22 (Aug 1, 2016)

I actually think its a great idea. Being a mostly organic grower, I don't think of compost as soil structure, even though it is, so I wasn't looking at it as such.

I'm running auto pots and I may well try some Tupur in them!



Afgan King said:


> You only kill microbe life if u build up too much salt for one, second why wouldn't it work even if it did I mean it would still be a medium of coco perlite and organic matter. There's something different with it I an tell you that for sure because I've seen side by sides of coco and tupur and Coco with perlite and tupur and tupur wins every time the root balls that build up I'm there are massive


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 1, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I actually think its a great idea. Being a mostly organic grower, I don't think of compost as soil structure, even though it is, so I wasn't looking at it as such.
> 
> I'm running auto pots and I may well try some Tupur in them!


You'll be very happy with it. I run kinda a mix of synthetic and organic right now I'm setting up compost teas that a buddy has for like every 3rd or 4th watering along with I inoculate every other feeding with mycos. The plants seem to absolutely love it I know as of right now @ttystikk is seeing how well it works and I've seen mushrooms and little cloves and all sorts of goodies pop up in this tupur before which proves it can hold microbial life even with using synthetic. It's all about finding the balance


----------



## pop22 (Aug 1, 2016)

I'm using GrowMore Seagrow and I'm loving it in coco. Its mostly organic, derived from seaweed, with just micro nutrients added. Growth an color has been outstanding. I've even run the 16-16-16 grow formula through an entire grow. I have nothing really for or against any form of plant nutrient, I just others having great results with it. And its a fairly priced granular like dry nutrient. Not as cheap as Jack's but possibly worth the difference.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 1, 2016)

Tupur seems to be the missing link between the nutes, the plants and the environment. Nothing is struggling, they're all leaping upwards. Same nutrients, same ratios, pH is close and EC is higher.


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 1, 2016)

All this chat of tupur.. I got two bags gonna give it a run. I'm also running autopots.. what's your target ec ph....? I'm usually 1.2 @ 5.5...


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 1, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> All this chat of tupur.. I got two bags gonna give it a run. I'm also running autopots.. what's your target ec ph....? I'm usually 1.2 @ 5.5...


I'm running upper 5s to 6.0 in veg and early bloom, EC around 2.0 in veg and higher in bloom but haven't dialed in yet.


----------



## pop22 (Aug 1, 2016)

Well her's is thing thing.. I love to test new ideas and decides to run soil and coco, in auto pots, at the same time, in the same system! I keep my EC between 1 and 1.2 , with a PH of 6.3 And so far every one is happy and growing well! They are my own strain of autos and one is already 10 days into flower, with the rest just approaching.



pinner420 said:


> All this chat of tupur.. I got two bags gonna give it a run. I'm also running autopots.. what's your target ec ph....? I'm usually 1.2 @ 5.5...


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 2, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> All this chat of tupur.. I got two bags gonna give it a run. I'm also running autopots.. what's your target ec ph....? I'm usually 1.2 @ 5.5...


I did the same thing, ran out and bought a couple bags. Have not run it yet, but I droppped some Blue Dream cuttings into it, watered one time with some tap water at about pH 6.0, stuck them under a slightly vented dome, and ignored them for ten days or so.

5 out of 6 of them rooted, the one that did not was a janky cut anyway. So it works dandy for cloning. Being a hobbyist is very liberating sometimes, I basically make clones a different way every time, because the cost of failure is a non-issue. I really want to buy a little EZ Clone machine soon, though.

I think I will run Shoreline's beans in the Tupur, when I finally get to them.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I did the same thing, ran out and bought a couple bags. Have not run it yet, but I droppped some Blue Dream cuttings into it, watered one time with some tap water at about pH 6.0, stuck them under a slightly vented dome, and ignored them for ten days or so.
> 
> 5 out of 6 of them rooted, the one that did not was a janky cut anyway. So it works dandy for cloning. Being a hobbyist is very liberating sometimes, I basically make clones a different way every time, because the cost of failure is a non-issue. I really want to buy a little EZ Clone machine soon, though.
> 
> I think I will run Shoreline's beans in the Tupur, when I finally get to them.


If Tupur works this well as a cloning medium, I'd keep it simple. KISS in this case means saving your money, not buying the aerocloner and wisely investing in a bottle of bourbon instead.


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 2, 2016)

all my clones are in 100% coco or my standard amended coco i just gave a cut of romulain x afiganihash plant away that was just stick in my potting medium in 4" & a saucer of r/o 6 days later i tugged & the pot moved ! not the cut , No gel or rooting powder just pinched Off & stuck into the coco in a instant . Fat fuzzy roots 
in winter i do the same except I got a mini g/h 2 gal aquarium , just change out the r/o water daily till roots
faster than cubes for me


----------



## fanboyz1231 (Aug 2, 2016)

i cant sit here and read every page,but i got 10 pages in,very kool setup


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## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2016)

fanboyz1231 said:


> i cant sit here and read every page,but i got 10 pages in,very kool setup


Skip to page 129 to catch up.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 3, 2016)

Today is day 45;
 
She's there for scale, keep in mind that she's on a step stool in the pic.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Today is day 45;
> View attachment 3748539
> She's there for scale, keep in mind that she's on a step stool in the pic.


Lol, those plants, jeebus.

Say hello to that lady whose name I know but am not posting on the internets!


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 3, 2016)

what's the buds that hug the wall like? , say in the shadow of the colas ? 
or do u trim out bud who's not in direct light?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 3, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Lol, those plants, jeebus.
> 
> Say hello to that lady whose name I know but am not posting on the internets!


I'll be sure to!


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 3, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> what's the buds that hug the wall like? , say in the shadow of the colas ?
> or do u trim out bud who's not in direct light?


The whole plant is effectively one sided, having been trained like that since well before it hit the bloom room.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Today is day 45;
> View attachment 3748539
> She's there for scale, keep in mind that she's on a step stool in the pic.


Love it bro, looking great. How many of those "trellis walls" you have in the flower room?


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 3, 2016)

Looking good buddy


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 3, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Love it bro, looking great. How many of those "trellis walls" you have in the flower room?


Six panels in there.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Six panels in there.


6 "walls of happiness"


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 3, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Looking good buddy


Thanks, bro- things are definitely starting to come together.


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 3, 2016)

I think I need to buy some stock in tupur lol


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 4, 2016)

Are you using airstones in the tupur?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Are you using airstones in the tupur?


No sir, I'm using waterfalls for aeration and circulation.


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 4, 2016)

Have you looked into the o2grow units?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Have you looked into the o2grow units?


I haven't. Got a link by chance?


----------



## OneHitDone (Aug 4, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I think I need to buy some stock in tupur lol


Why are you guys not blending your own "Tupur" mix rather than making these Humbolt Hipsters and FedEx rich? lol


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Why are you guys not blending your own "Tupur" mix rather than making these Humbolt Hipsters and FedEx rich? lol


I'm sure I'll get to it, but I just started using it so getting the premix was easier. My local store carries it, I grabbed it on sale. 

I understand that recycling it makes it even better.


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I haven't. Got a link by chance?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

pinner420 said:


>


Sweet! Still, waterfalls are an excellent aerator plus they mix and recirculate the water. They also break up surface films, something airstones aren't very good at. 

In this way, I only need one pump to do all water management functions in the system.


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sweet! Still, waterfalls are an excellent aerator plus they mix and recirculate the water. They also break up surface films, something airstones aren't very good at.
> 
> In this way, I only need one pump to do all water management functions in the system.


I utilize waterfall as well just haven't gotten far enough along to do more about playing with DO levels in rdwc. On the tupur front though autopots subfertigate so I'm gonna give air injection tech a whirl.


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sweet! Still, waterfalls are an excellent aerator plus they mix and recirculate the water. They also break up surface films, something airstones aren't very good at.
> 
> In this way, I only need one pump to do all water management functions in the system.


The electrolysis spooks me as to what it may do to the nutes.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> I utilize waterfall as well just haven't gotten far enough along to do more about playing with DO levels in rdwc. On the tupur front though autopots subfertigate so I'm gonna give air injection tech a whirl.


I'm sub irrigating my Tupur, and the waterfalls are working great. Not trying to argue, there's lots of ways to skin this cat.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> The electrolysis spooks me as to what it may do to the nutes.


Huh?


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 4, 2016)

Referring to the o2grow running a current through the solution sounds sketch; however, maybe all the chemical reactions are final enough that it only messes with the h's and o's.


----------



## OneHitDone (Aug 4, 2016)

pinner420 said:


>


What effects does that device have on the suspension of your nutes in solution?


----------



## OneHitDone (Aug 4, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> I utilize waterfall as well just haven't gotten far enough along to do more about playing with DO levels in rdwc. On the tupur front though autopots subfertigate so I'm gonna give air injection tech a whirl.


@chazbolin had posted some info on DO a while back. Maybe we can dig it up


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> @chazbolin had posted some info on DO a while back. Maybe we can dig it up


IIRC, the upshot was that it's not hard to get very close to 100% O2 saturation. Many methods get you there. Water temperatures are a determining factor in total DO levels; fix that first when suspicious of oxygenation problems.


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 4, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> What effects does that device have on the suspension of your nutes in solution?


Pretty big gamble. Maybe test it with a sungold cherry tomatoes so there's less pucker if it goes south.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Pretty big gamble. Maybe test it with a sungold cherry tomatoes so there's less pucker if it goes south.


Yeah, it fails my KISS test. The waterfalls do several jobs in addition to aeration and they do them all well.


----------



## nevergoodenuf (Aug 4, 2016)

$200 for a 40 gallon res. is what scares me about it.


----------



## OneHitDone (Aug 4, 2016)

What is very interesting is that if it is splitting the oxygen and hydrogen molecules, would the oxygen not have to be there in the first place?
Would also think it is causing evaporation at an accelerated rate but I am no chemist lol


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No sir, I'm using waterfalls for aeration and circulation.


Highest dissolved oxi that way


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> What is very interesting is that if it is splitting the oxygen and hydrogen molecules, would the oxygen not have to be there in the first place?
> Would also think it is causing evaporation at an accelerated rate but I am no chemist lol


It's splitting WATER into oxygen and hydrogen, using electrolysis. If there's water, there's oxygen in it. This is not the same thing as oxygenated water, which is where the little unit comes in. It uses electricity to split the water molecule, freeing oxygen to then oxygenate the liquid water. The difference is that in the water molecule the oxygen is chemically bound to the hydrogen, whereas dissolved oxygen in solution refers to a different process. It's this second process that governs roots and fish getting oxygen from the water. 

Important safety tip; Don't use electrolysis in a tightly sealed space with any potential for an electric spark, lol


----------



## nevergoodenuf (Aug 4, 2016)

So you seal the tank and store the nitrogen to use in the day as a CO2 generator.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 6, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> So you seal the tank and store the nitrogen to use in the day as a CO2 generator.


Lol no. It emits oxygen and hydrogen. Dealing that up could create the conditions for an explosion.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 6, 2016)

I had a most illustrious and long awaited visitor today. You know who you are! 

Glad ya made it.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 7, 2016)

Since it's not a secret, @RM3 made the trek to visit me up here in the hinterlands yesterday. @Afgan King was also able to break loose and join us for a sesh and conversation. 

Smoking and conversing with friends is one of my favorite things to do in life. 

He brought some joints of Holy Fuck with him, that's Holy Diver x Colorado Thunderfuck (no relation to the AK version to my knowledge). RM3's weed has LEGS, I was feeling good all afternoon!


----------



## RM3 (Aug 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Since it's not a secret, @RM3 made the trek to visit me up here in the hinterlands yesterday. @Afgan King was also able to break loose and join us for a sesh and conversation.
> 
> Smoking and conversing with friends is one of my favorite things to do in life.
> 
> He brought some joints of Holy Fuck with him, that's Holy Diver x Colorado Thunderfuck (no relation to the AK version to my knowledge). RM3's weed has LEGS, I was feeling good all afternoon!


Wonderful visit Brother ! Love good smoke and good conversation as well and now that I've seen it in person I can share that the pics do not do it justice !

Will be very cool to see all your visions come together


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Wonderful visit Brother ! Love good smoke and good conversation as well and now that I've seen it in person I can share that the pics do not do it justice !
> 
> Will be very cool to see all your visions come together


Professional photographers regularly say the same thing, so I don't feel so badly, lmao! 

Thanks for the kind words, brother. I think some of your strains would look good climbing the walls around here.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Wonderful visit Brother ! Love good smoke and good conversation as well and now that I've seen it in person I can share that the pics do not do it justice !
> 
> Will be very cool to see all your visions come together


Man, it is the truth, pictures don't communicate the beastliness at all.
I wish I could have been there, sounds like it was a good time.


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 7, 2016)

ya make a guy wanna go to the Rockies , 
I remember all the Denver jokes  awhile back


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## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Man, it is the truth, pictures don't communicate the beastliness at all.
> I wish I could have been there, sounds like it was a good time.


I can't wait to introduce you two.


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 8, 2016)

My Durban Poison ibl is gonna hit g\h ceiling , the stem is thick as a school girl's wrestling coach.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 8, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> My Durban Poison ibl is gonna hit g\h ceiling , the stem is thick as a school girl's wrestling coach.


Those were beautiful turns of phrase.


----------



## coreywebster (Aug 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Since it's not a secret, @RM3 made the trek to visit me up here in the hinterlands yesterday. @Afgan King was also able to break loose and join us for a sesh and conversation.
> 
> Smoking and conversing with friends is one of my favorite things to do in life.
> 
> He brought some joints of Holy Fuck with him, that's Holy Diver x Colorado Thunderfuck (no relation to the AK version to my knowledge). RM3's weed has LEGS, I was feeling good all afternoon!


Sweet baby Jesus, that's a triple tag team combo and a half!!


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2016)

coreywebster said:


> Sweet baby Jesus, that's a triple tag team combo and a half!!


Sweet baby Jesus? Isn't that an OG?


----------



## RM3 (Aug 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sweet baby Jesus? Isn't that an OG?


would that be Hey Zeus OG lol


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> would that be Hey Zeus OG lol


We've already got Holy Fuck, lmao

I just figured...


----------



## RM3 (Aug 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> We've already got Holy Fuck, lmao
> 
> I just figured...


Nah, when ya mix jesus and holy fuck it creates a bad cartoon lol


----------



## Bbcchance (Aug 8, 2016)

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at that session, I bet that fly got baked!


----------



## Frajola (Aug 8, 2016)

Amen brothers & sisters.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2016)

I have a lot of friends here on rollitup, and many of them come and visit. No need to be jelly, just drop me a line and we'll set something up!


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 8, 2016)

One day me and the wife are coming to Denver. Would love to catch up with some folks off here to talk shit and see some of your vert action in the flesh!!


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Today is day 45;
> View attachment 3748539
> She's there for scale, keep in mind that she's on a step stool in the pic.


Just been catching up on past posts. Fuck those buds look awesome.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 9, 2016)

Where's the best place to get me some of those cobs. I'm going to have to rig something up


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> One day me and the wife are coming to Denver. Would love to catch up with some folks off here to talk shit and see some of your vert action in the flesh!!


I'd be honored to have you.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Where's the best place to get me some of those cobs. I'm going to have to rig something up


Several places; 
Johnson Grow Lights
Northern Grow Lights
COBkits

All these are RIU advertisers.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Several places;
> Johnson Grow Lights
> Northern Grow Lights
> COBkits
> ...


And Cutter Electronics


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Several places;
> Johnson Grow Lights
> Northern Grow Lights
> COBkits
> ...


Cheers bro. I see what you done. Did you just mix the spectrums up. Looks awesome


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 9, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> And Cutter Electronics


Cheers. I gotta get in on this cob action.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 9, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers. I gotta get in on this cob action.


Welcome. Cutter is Aus based so might be more convenient for you


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'd be honored to have you.


Where going to come over one year for a cannabis cup, but I have my eldest wanting to go to Fiji, so that's the next trip. 

Need to time it right and ill ditch the kids with relatives in CA and then come smoke up a storm.


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 9, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Where going to come over one year for a cannabis cup, but I have my eldest wanting to go to Fiji, so that's the next trip.
> 
> Need to time it right and ill ditch the kids with relatives in CA and then come smoke up a storm.


Ya gotta plan forming already


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 9, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Where going to come over one year for a cannabis cup, but I have my eldest wanting to go to Fiji, so that's the next trip.
> 
> Need to time it right and ill ditch the kids with relatives in CA and then come smoke up a storm.


by then y'll be able to hit more than just one Cup as Cali is going full legit this fall plus other states
the Cups will be great all over the newly legit states & Make the CO & MI Cup's even bigger 
as ya'll know Weed Tourism is alive & well 
the Emerald Cup in Dec is a good one , all mendo ,Humboldt ,Sonoma outdoor grown competition 
it's at the Sonoma Co fair Santa Rosa 45 minutes North of SF 
I wanna go to a CO cup & score sum genes


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## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers bro. I see what you done. Did you just mix the spectrums up. Looks awesome


These guys sell parts, kits and complete fixtures. 

I went a slightly different route and picked a builder, then we collaborated on the design and he built them to my peculiar specs. 

I wanted simple modules, all the same and interchangeable, and that's what I got. While my modules aren't perfect, I'm very happy with the work that was done.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers. I gotta get in on this cob action.


They're amazing. People are looking at what the COB LED modules make and saying it's some of the best they've ever seen. Best horticultural lighting I've ever used, hands down.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> by then y'll be able to hit more than just one Cup as Cali is going full legit this fall plus other states
> the Cups will be great all over the newly legit states & Make the CO & MI Cup's even bigger
> as ya'll know Weed Tourism is alive & well
> the Emerald Cup in Dec is a good one , all mendo ,Humboldt ,Sonoma outdoor grown competition
> ...


You come to Colorado, I'll make sure you leave with fire genetics, bro.


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## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Welcome. Cutter is Aus based so might be more convenient for you


Oh ya, that's gonna be a deciding factor for you then. They're good folks too. 

Get you some COBs and get cookin'!


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers bro. I see what you done. Did you just mix the spectrums up. Looks awesome


My chips are all Cree CXB3590 3500K CD BIN 72V. Every last one of them. I can't say enough good things about how plants respond to them.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 11, 2016)

Holy Jumping Jillybean, Bhatman!


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 11, 2016)

is that cattle fencing & barb wire eye bolts i see ?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 11, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> is that cattle fencing & barb wire eye bolts i see ?


Absolutely not! I'll have you know that it's sheep and goat fencing, vine clips and #10 screw hooks, lol


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 11, 2016)

Love that Jilly wish I would of had my micro looks like coke thrown on the colas just stupid caked


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 11, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Love that Jilly wish I would of had my micro looks like coke thrown on the colas just stupid caked View attachment 3755297


Nice


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Nice


That's a nug on the same plant as the pics I posted.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's a nug on the same plant as the pics I posted.


Ah, I recognize it . Tasty as fuck I imagine!!!


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 11, 2016)

Oranges lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 11, 2016)

One thing about TGA, its all flavorful imo


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> One thing about TGA, its all flavorful imo


Oh ya but I seen Jilly hit 28% and that was at Colorado state labs who are very accurate. Only shitty part about tga is the pheno hunt for the older strains. They never bred down to stabilize and guarantee every characteristic that they want is in every seed. They have great starting genetics but seems like they've gotten better the 10 cuvee seeds had 9 keeper females 1 male


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> One thing about TGA, its all flavorful imo


Yeah, this. It might not grow worth a damn, might not get you high worth a shit- but it's always tasty! 

This is called the candy cut of Jillybean, it's literally one in a thousand. I got the cut from a breeder.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yeah, this. It might not grow worth a damn, might not get you high worth a shit- but it's always tasty!
> 
> This is called the candy cut of Jillybean, it's literally one in a thousand. I got the cut from a breeder.


ha ha spot on! They have some good stuff, but its a hunt to find (unless you are just lucky). I have been lucky quite a few times with them so I continue to plant some


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 11, 2016)

specifically I utilize chernobyl, conspiracy kush then dr who and quantum kush from homegrown natural wonders


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> ha ha spot on! They have some good stuff, but its a hunt to find (unless you are just lucky). I have been lucky quite a few times with them so I continue to plant some


Rather than roll the dice, I just got a cut. I don't have any pretense to being a breeder, I let the professionals handle it. 

OTOH, you got a killer cut of something, bring it to me and I'll get the most out of it!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Rather than roll the dice, I just got a cut. I don't have any pretense to being a breeder, I let the professionals handle it.
> 
> OTOH, you got a killer cut of something, bring it to me and I'll get the most out of it!


Cool. Though if you get solid strains you should be able to also run them from seed. Thats all I ever do actually. I definitely will keep that in mind


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Cool. Though if you get solid strains you should be able to also run them from seed. Thats all I ever do actually. I definitely will keep that in mind


If you only ever run seeds I'll have some I'll need help pheno hunting thru if your up for it  I got two lemon alien males here's what lemon alien female looks like gonna breed this round with gg4, pura vida, Kandy Kush, and sonic screwdriver anyone who wants to help me pheno hunt I'm always down for some others opinions. And then you'll get to see the best ones in our gardens and of course you can keep any phenos you like


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 11, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> If you only ever run seeds I'll have some I'll need help pheno hunting thru if your up for it  I got two lemon alien males here's what lemon alien female looks likeView attachment 3755449 gonna breed this round with gg4, pura vida, Kandy Kush, and sonic screwdriver anyone who wants to help me pheno hunt I'm always down for some others opinions. And then you'll get to see the best ones in our gardens and of course you can keep any phenos you like


Looks like some serious dank. Prolly could arrange that. Yeah only seed starts here, VN sun. Plates always full but also always starting new beans at least monthly.


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 11, 2016)

That's awesome I'll have 4 flower rooms going very soon just had to place order for the lights. So I'll be able to throw in 2 gals pots to try and fit as many as I can lol shits gonna get nuts in my journal gonna start looking like his with his 4 racks


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 12, 2016)

Miss Jillybean looks like a solid contender for my biggest plant yet;


----------



## Bbcchance (Aug 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Miss Jillybean looks like a solid contender for my biggest plant yet;
> View attachment 3755677 View attachment 3755678 View attachment 3755679


Reminds me of the fuzzy wall scene from get him to the greek


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 12, 2016)

Phytoremediation comes to mind. Wow wall of weed. Fighting air pollution 3 pounds at a time.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Miss Jillybean looks like a solid contender for my biggest plant yet;
> View attachment 3755677 View attachment 3755678 View attachment 3755679


That's a tasty bitch right there. Goodness gracious, how they grow up.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Aug 12, 2016)

leaves are pretty gnarly but i would say there is a bunch of nice herbage there


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 12, 2016)

Wow!

I can stop posting pics now lol.......


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 12, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> leaves are pretty gnarly but i would say there is a bunch of nice herbage there


Bout a pound...

Or two.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 12, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> leaves are pretty gnarly but i would say there is a bunch of nice herbage there


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 12, 2016)

Hey ttystikk or anyone. Does anyone have a basic wiring schematics for a diy cob. I kinda have ab idea. But would be good to firm it up


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 12, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey ttystikk or anyone. Does anyone have a basic wiring schematics for a diy cob. I kinda have ab idea. But would be good to firm it up


This question is better served in the LED section. I understand that COB chips are very sensitive to polarity and instantly fry if you hook them up backwards.


----------



## a mongo frog (Aug 12, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey ttystikk or anyone. Does anyone have a basic wiring schematics for a diy cob. I kinda have ab idea. But would be good to firm it up


Does this count?


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3755855


GREAT SCOTT MARTY!


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 12, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> GREAT SCOTT MARTY!


That won't need a DeLorean to send you back to the future!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3755855


That needs to go in the "Fostiest" buds thread.


ttystikk said:


> That won't need a DeLorean to send you back to the future!


Literally laugh-out-louded.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 12, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> That needs to go in the "Fostiest" buds thread.
> 
> Literally laugh-out-louded.


Link it up! 

The way it smells is somewhere between orange cleaner and pine sol.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 12, 2016)

http://rollitup.org/t/whos-got-the-fostiest-buds-lets-see-how-frosty-a-bud-can-really-get.330370/page-494


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 14, 2016)

Just saw an article on these @ttystikk pretty interesting anyway, 9k pricetag

http://suntowater.com/


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 14, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Just saw an article on these @ttystikk pretty interesting anyway, 9k pricetag
> 
> http://suntowater.com/


Maybe you can link the article; their website gives no specifications beyond how much water they make.

My chiller powered water cooled air handlers can make up to ten gallons of water daily, each.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Maybe you can link the article; their website gives no specifications beyond how much water they make.
> 
> My chiller powered water cooled air handlers can make up to ten gallons of water daily, each.


http://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/headlines/20160810-with-new-water-generators-carrollton-startup-can-unlock-the-ocean-above-your-head.ece


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 14, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> http://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/headlines/20160810-with-new-water-generators-carrollton-startup-can-unlock-the-ocean-above-your-head.ece


This is really cool and would certainly help solve problems relating to access to clean water for agriculture. 

My water cooled air handlers run via the old fashioned condensation due to cold method, so they both dehuey (as long as there's a heat source, like HID lighting) and cool.


----------



## pop22 (Aug 15, 2016)

Hot damn! Whata beauty!



ttystikk said:


> Miss Jillybean looks like a solid contender for my biggest plant yet;
> View attachment 3755677 View attachment 3755678 View attachment 3755679


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 15, 2016)

Flavor du jour, Blue Cheese;


----------



## organic-fanatic (Aug 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Any questions?


How did you mount your cobs & holders to the blocks, screws tape paste ?
I'm trying to imagine hows this works, so is this like a closed loop with 1 inline pump that splits equally from a manifold to each block then rejoins at the bottom and runs through your chiller then back again or maybe just pumping water up then using gravity to run through the blocks to a reservoir where your chiller pipe cools the reservoir or something completely different ?
I appreciate all your help, your setup rocks very outside the box & efficient use of space and energy, your a true pioneer.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2016)

organic-fanatic said:


> How did you mount your cobs & holders to the blocks, screws tape paste ?
> I'm trying to imagine hows this works, so is this like a closed loop with 1 inline pump that splits equally from a manifold to each block then rejoins at the bottom and runs through your chiller then back again or maybe just pumping water up then using gravity to run through the blocks to a reservoir where your chiller pipe cools the reservoir or something completely different ?
> I appreciate all your help, your setup rocks very outside the box & efficient use of space and energy, your a true pioneer.


Thank you! Inspiring others is my highest calling.

COB LED chips, holders and lenses are all held down with screws; they're all drilled 'blind', meaning they only go to a certain depth and not through into the water cavity.

You only need one pump, because water is incompressible; the water pump drives water through the entire system, including through the chiller. As long as you keep the restrictions even, you'll get even flow through each of the lights.

At first my pump was on the floor underneath my cold circuit reservoir barrel. The return water would drop back into the barrel from above, completing the circuit from each return manifold.

The new chiller has its tanks inside with a pump, so now I need not source my own res and pump. The reason ChillKing did this was to place the heat exchange core in the tank, immersed in and with a constant water current across it to ensure maximum heat transfer. Their approach improves the efficiency of the chiller, allows the unit to safeguard itself against being drained, and saves me from needing to buy external pumps and tanks. HUGE time, effort and money saver!

This chilled water is then pumped throughout my cooling system. If a water cooled air handler needs to cool the room, its blower fan kicks on, but the radiator is constantly supplied with chilled water.

For RDWC, there's a copper water to water heat exchange coil in the control bucket.

The COB LED modules get water all day, and at night there's an electric solenoid switch that cuts off the flow of cold water to limit condensation.

In this way, the cold water system removes heat from every part of the grow room.

Yes, it is possible to remove too much heat from the growing space and yes, occasionally I've managed...

It's a peculiar problem to find oneself confronting a daily maximum air temperature of 71F while driving 5400W of lighting in the same space... in July?!

Now please pay careful attention; my chilling system has worked successfully for years with ChillKing chillers. When I purchased a Surna chiller, formerly Hydro Innovations, they told me the reason their chillers weren't working properly was because my cooling system was inadequate and refused to honor their warranty. That's how they treated this five figure customer.

When I purchased another ChillKing unit to do EXACTLY THE SAME JOB, it worked perfectly the first time I turned it on, and has been ever since. It's been utterly dependable. On the odd occasion that I've called the company, either the president or vice president was available most of the time.

You may draw your own conclusions.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2016)

Root porn; you saw Jillybean in her best colors, now look at her privates;





Uh, now wait just a minute. I could swear they said she was female!


Maybe it's a NEW school hermaphrodite! 

I can't wait to hear the shemale jokes now!


----------



## Bbcchance (Aug 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Root porn; you saw Jillybean in her best colors, now look at her privates;
> View attachment 3758885
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## GroErr (Aug 16, 2016)

Now THAT is root porn! Damn.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Aug 16, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Does this count?



is that series or parallel?

we have a bunch of 36 v nichia j130 cobs ,holders, 48 v cc meanwell drivers[cheap] and mingfa heat syncs to try to hook up..we are going parallel..

i will definitely figure that out before we do it..

nice bud there TTYS
same tubs though id o SWC not DWC[anymore]


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> is that series or parallel?
> 
> we have a bunch of 36 v nichia j130 cobs ,holders, 48 v cc meanwell drivers[cheap] and mingfa heat syncs to try to hook up..we are going parallel..
> 
> ...


I've gone to Tupur in SIPS in my same RDWC system.


----------



## a mongo frog (Aug 16, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> is that series or parallel?
> 
> we have a bunch of 36 v nichia j130 cobs ,holders, 48 v cc meanwell drivers[cheap] and mingfa heat syncs to try to hook up..we are going parallel..
> 
> ...


Pretty sure thats series wiring.


----------



## Frajola (Aug 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Root porn; you saw Jillybean in her best colors, now look at her privates;
> View attachment 3758885
> 
> 
> ...


needs a hair cut, lol gzzzzz crazy underground grow wow


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

Oh, snap- shatter made from Jillybean trimmings... There goes the neighborhood!


Candy, oranges, sweet flowers, its fragrance is as instantly mouthwatering as it is beyond words to describe.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

Who says the gold rush is over in Colorado? That's some 24 karat goodness, right there!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Oh, snap- shatter made from Jillybean trimmings... There goes the neighborhood!
> View attachment 3760217
> 
> Candy, oranges, sweet flowers, its fragrance is as instantly mouthwatering as it is beyond words to describe.


Shit yeah, nice


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Shit yeah, nice


I gotta figure out how to bottle the scent, it makes chanel #5 smell cheap by comparison. 

I'm going to wake n dab, and I might not get a lot done afterwards, lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 18, 2016)

http://blueriverextracts.com/terpenes/


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> http://blueriverextracts.com/terpenes/


If my girlfriend smelled like this, I might never leave the house!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If my girlfriend smelled like this, I might never leave the house!


Might not be such a bad thing if they are amplifying certain effects


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 18, 2016)

Perfect modulation as they say


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Perfect modulation as they say


Tends to give me the energizer bunny effect; I keep going and going and going...

Fuck Viagra. Shit's weak.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Tends to give me the energizer bunny effect; I keep going and going and going...
> 
> Fuck Viagra. Shit's weak.


Same here when I have edibles. Great stuff and yeah fuck viagra, who needs that shat


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Shit yeah, nice


Like my work? Lol here's a macro of the Jilly bean from @ttystikk


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Like my work? Lol here's a macro of the Jilly bean from @ttystikk View attachment 3760231


Lol 'that's not PM, that's all frost!'

And yes, I like your work. The quality speaks for itself.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 18, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Like my work? Lol here's a macro of the Jilly bean from @ttystikk View attachment 3760231


Absolutely, looks great. I knew that was sugar


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Absolutely, looks great. I knew that was sugar


It's hard as a fuckin rock, too- like getting sugar wet and letting it dry. That's a common result of plants grown in the COB LED rack, it's very noticeably different than the fluffier bud grown under HID lighting, even my 860W CDM lamps.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's hard as a fuckin rock, too- like getting sugar wet and letting it dry. That's a common result of plants grown in the COB LED rack, it's very noticeably different than the fluffier bud grown under HID.


Thats certainly a plus in my book


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

Fresh batch in the COB LED rack, because I don't believe in keeping the ladies waiting;
 
Gooooooood morning, Vietnam! Lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fresh batch in the COB LED rack, because I don't believe in keeping the ladies waiting;
> View attachment 3760244
> Gooooooood morning, Vietnam! Lol


Good night Vietnam more like LMAO, looks good


----------



## PKHydro (Aug 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fresh batch in the COB LED rack, because I don't believe in keeping the ladies waiting;
> View attachment 3760244
> Gooooooood morning, Vietnam! Lol


Fuck ya. I think these are the healthiest looking plants I've seen of yours. Nice lush green throughout! Looks like the tupur is the way to go.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> Fuck ya. I think these are the healthiest looking plants I've seen of yours. Nice lush green throughout! Looks like the tupur is the way to go.


Tupur has absolutely made the difference in my veg and as you know when growing big girls, a good veg is a key to yields.

My best is 32oz from one plant. Between the Tupur, the veg and dialing in the environment I believe I can hit three lbs from one plant.


----------



## verticalgrow (Aug 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fresh batch in the COB LED rack, because I don't believe in keeping the ladies waiting;
> View attachment 3760244
> Gooooooood morning, Vietnam! Lol


g'day Tty,
how far are COBs from plants?
Also do u make utube video's?
VG


----------



## PKHydro (Aug 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Tupur has absolutely made the difference in my veg and as you know when growing big girls, a good veg is a key to yields.


Yes sir, it absolutely is!


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> g'day Tty,
> how far are COBs from plants?
> Also do u make utube video's?
> VG


24-30"

Working on it!


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 18, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> Fuck ya. I think these are the healthiest looking plants I've seen of yours. Nice lush green throughout! Looks like the tupur is the way to go.


This is what I love to see cause you remember the people who were trying to give you shit bout switching and listening to a 27 year old lol


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lol 'that's not PM, that's all frost!'


 had a bubba kush that did that , 
she was a odd pheno from BK bag seed low yielder but was damn near the best Fire I've smoked


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> had a bubba kush that did that ,
> she was a odd pheno from BK bag seed low yielder but was damn near the best Fire I've smoked


My goal is six foot tall plants, yielding three pounds of fire apiece. I'm approaching things from an environment and conditions perspective; optimize the inputs, train the plants- and stand back lol


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Aug 18, 2016)

Bring on the room build videos and detailed walk thoughs! Lol


----------



## RM3 (Aug 18, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Bring on the room build videos and detailed walk thoughs! Lol


Tis a complex maze that requires a guide, I've taken the tour, it's scary


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Aug 18, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Tis a complex maze that requires a guide, I've taken the tour, it's scary


I would love to see! I love tech info and have a mind for max production. I'm always looking to see what others do and how well it works... Elspecially if there's some solid coin dropped on a setup with COBs running.


----------



## RM3 (Aug 18, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> I would love to see! I love tech info and have a mind for max production. I'm always looking to see what others do and how well it works... Elspecially if there's some solid coin dropped on a setup with COBs running.


The wall o cobs is huge, I'm 6'5" and those plants are taller than me, pics do not do it justice


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 18, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Tis a complex maze that requires a guide, I've taken the tour, it's scary





RM3 said:


> The wall o cobs is huge, I'm 6'5" and those plants are taller than me, pics do not do it justice


Just you wait until I get some elbow room to work with, brother. 

Terrifying thought, lol


----------



## schuylaar (Aug 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> True story on the growth; there was a bit of a pause at first, then everything exploded!
> 
> I blame the combination of Tupur, nutes, great phenos and COB LED lighting. It's like everything just clicked.


It IS really great when things 'click'.

Totally clutch on those 2 pound plants, Tty!

+rep


----------



## schuylaar (Aug 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The whole plant is effectively one sided, having been trained like that since well before it hit the bloom room.


Like a vertical scrog?


----------



## schuylaar (Aug 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks, bro- things are definitely starting to come together.


----------



## schuylaar (Aug 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Root porn; you saw Jillybean in her best colors, now look at her privates;
> View attachment 3758885
> 
> 
> ...


 Dayumn!!


----------



## schuylaar (Aug 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's hard as a fuckin rock, too- like getting sugar wet and letting it dry. That's a common result of plants grown in the COB LED rack, it's very noticeably different than the fluffier bud grown under HID lighting, even my 860W CDM lamps.


Like Frosted Flakes.


----------



## PKHydro (Aug 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My goal is six foot tall plants, yielding three pounds of fire apiece.


Oh, that's it?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 19, 2016)

PKHydro said:


> Oh, that's it?


...and as soon as I achieve it, I'll at a new one, like maybe 4 per? Lol

Gotta have goals!


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Aug 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> ...and as soon as I achieve it, I'll at a new one, like maybe 4 per? Lol
> 
> Gotta have goals!


Why not just get some soccer nets and the goal supporting them for your vertical scroging joy? It would almost provide 240 degrees of coverage  

Talk about goals... Lol


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 19, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Why not just get some soccer nets and the goal supporting them for your vertical scroging joy? It would almost provide 240 degrees of coverage
> 
> Talk about goals... Lol


Because netting sucks, lol 

I use sheep n goat fencing. Seriously, it's strong enough to hold a shape, rigid yet can be bent, squares are big enough to stick your hands through and it's easy to use vine clips and soft ties with it.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 21, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Why not just get some soccer nets and the goal supporting them for your vertical scroging joy? It would almost provide 240 degrees of coverage
> 
> Talk about goals... Lol


Worth suggesting if only for the pun.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Tupur has absolutely made the difference in my veg and as you know when growing big girls, a good veg is a key to yields.
> 
> My best is 32oz from one plant. Between the Tupur, the veg and dialing in the environment I believe I can hit three lbs from one plant.


Whish we could get it down here. Might have to talk to my supplier.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 22, 2016)

Hey @kiwipaulie , I saw an article y'day where a lady brought back a months supply of meds from Hawaii and they let her through at the airport. Pretty cool man.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 22, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Hey @kiwipaulie , I saw an article y'day where a lady brought back a months supply of meds from Hawaii and they let her through at the airport. Pretty cool man.


Funny I never saw that haha. Have you got a link. I'm intrigued. Normally our customs are straight up motherfuckers. I hate travelling out and in. I always get grief


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 22, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Hey @kiwipaulie , I saw an article y'day where a lady brought back a months supply of meds from Hawaii and they let her through at the airport. Pretty cool man.


Don't worry. Found it! amazing.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 22, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Don't worry. Found it! amazing.


Aye it is eh! Amazing


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 22, 2016)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/83395798/marijuana-campaigner-makes-history-getting-past-auckland-airport-customs


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 22, 2016)

Have a buddy who just flew to Florida with 21 grams in his carry on. Orlando is decriminalized 21g and under is a ticket so he said fuck it and got no grief. Not first time I've heard of people flying from legal to atleast decriminalized with no issues at all lol he sent me this


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 22, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Have a buddy who just flew to Florida with 21 grams in his carry on. Orlando is decriminalized 21g and under is a ticket so he said fuck it and got no grief. Not first time I've heard of people flying from legal to atleast decriminalized with no issues at all lol he sent me thisView attachment 3763955


TSA is a bunch of fuckwits, probably didnt even notice . I was flying from Atlanta to Dominican Republic once and as I was going through security in Atl these 2 TSA morons were talking about how they like to fuck with people. I went through Atl, Miami, Puerto Rico, and landed in DR with a 4" lockblade buck knife in the side pocket of my carry on backpack. I didnt know it was there either until I got into DR and reached into that pocket and pulled it out.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 22, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Have a buddy who just flew to Florida with 21 grams in his carry on. Orlando is decriminalized 21g and under is a ticket so he said fuck it and got no grief. Not first time I've heard of people flying from legal to atleast decriminalized with no issues at all lol he sent me thisView attachment 3763955


But whatever you do, do NOT give in to temptation in the airplane bathroom, lmao!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> But whatever you do, do NOT give in to temptation in the airplane bathroom, lmao!


Laughing my ass off, not that, you'll be crucified


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 22, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> TSA is a bunch of fuckwits, probably didnt even notice . I was flying from Atlanta to Dominican Republic once and as I was going through security in Atl these 2 TSA morons were talking about how they like to fuck with people. I went through Atl, Miami, Puerto Rico, and landed in DR with a 4" lockblade buck knife in the side pocket of my carry on backpack. I didnt know it was there either until I got into DR and reached into that pocket and pulled it out.


Security theater, for the consumption and constipation of us peons- while the elite of course never get their private jets and suitcases full of coke searched.


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> But whatever you do, do NOT give in to temptation in the airplane bathroom, lmao!


Lmfao


----------



## gr865 (Aug 22, 2016)

Back when you could smoke on Southwest Airlines, I traveled a lot and would always carry a one hitter on my person and additional in my carryon, neary a problem. Any more in most countries they will slap your hand, some like the Philippines will fucking kill you!


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 22, 2016)

On the other hand, all those Asian countries just love to build grow lights and send them here for us to 'illegally' grow, lol

Yes, it's odd and hints at an ethical problem with the pot prohibition laws; 
Try getting chemical precursors for making meth and see how far you get, lol


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> On the other hand, all those Asian countries just love to build grow lights and send them here for us to 'illegally' grow, lol
> 
> Yes, it's odd and hints at an ethical problem with the pot prohibition laws;
> Try getting chemical precursors for making meth and see how far you get, lol


Can only buy 2 boxes of Sudafed some places 1 with an ID and they swipe it to see when last time u bought it with them was


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 22, 2016)

gr865 said:


> some like the Philippines will fucking kill you!


only for meth. you can carry out as much hash as you want as long as you pay the right people. all about the money unfortunately


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 22, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Can only buy 2 boxes of Sudafed some places 1 with an ID and they swipe it to see when last time u bought it with them was


I was referring to getting those same precursors in Asian countries. But that also makes my point.


----------



## gr865 (Aug 22, 2016)

Fuck that shit, if your doing that your a fucking fool!
As a retired employer I saw way to many of those idiots.

GR


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 22, 2016)

gr865 said:


> Fuck that shit, if your doing that your a fucking fool!
> As a retired employer I saw way to many of those idiots.
> 
> GR


I am not, I am just telling you what I know people are doing.....


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 22, 2016)

I fucking hate flying for the fact I am a cripple and they make you take your shoes off. I can't walk with my shoes off, and I feel helpless and embarrassed and, suddenly, violent. Hate hate hate that illusionary security apparatus.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I was referring to getting those same precursors in Asian countries. But that also makes my point.


haha @ttystikk fuck all that


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 22, 2016)

Many of those same people I speak of frequently transit through the countries which are deemed crazy against drugs in Asia. Why? Because they dont really give a fuck, its a front. They could care less what goes through their airports as long as you arent pulling the shit out trying to peddle in transit


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 23, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Many of those same people I speak of frequently transit through the countries which are deemed crazy against drugs in Asia. Why? Because they dont really give a fuck, its a front. They could care less what goes through their airports as long as you arent pulling the shit out trying to peddle in transit


Exactly. Money money money


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 23, 2016)

NZ and Aus has become targets for the cartels, fuck people pay $250usd for a gram and its fucken shit. Be lucky if its 10%, but idiots rave about it. 

So do the math....nz is a great target.

Charlie I mean, not meth. Meth bad


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 23, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> NZ and Aus has become targets for the cartels, fuck people pay $250usd for a gram and its fucken shit. Be lucky if its 10%, but idiots rave about it.
> 
> So do the math....nz is a great target.
> 
> Charlie I mean, not meth. Meth bad


damnit man, crazy fukn prices eh


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2016)

When did the subject change to white powder drugs in my pot thread?!

Geez, peeps!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 23, 2016)

Those damn Kiwis


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2016)

I think I've got an idea about why my plants are yellowing; I think the SIPS level is too deep and I'm drowning them. 

Gonna drain and topfeed and see if that helps.


----------



## OneHitDone (Aug 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I think I've got an idea about why my plants are yellowing; I think the SIPS level is too deep and I'm drowning them.
> 
> Gonna drain and topfeed and see if that helps.


Sippy Doo troubles bro? lol


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I think I've got an idea about why my plants are yellowing; I think the SIPS level is too deep and I'm drowning them.
> 
> Gonna drain and topfeed and see if that helps.


you got a airstone in it ?
not that i know shit about Sips cause I don't,I've never ran them yet 
but I have researched the shit outta them

some guys use a airstones is all i know ,
they give various reasons sooo sounds very variable on set-up & conditions i'd guess


----------



## gr865 (Aug 23, 2016)

You can't go wrong with extra O2 in the root system, Have seen some very impressive root mass from adding additional O2. I have a double diffuser in my lower rez now at 24/7.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2016)

WATERFALLS, guys lol I used waterfalls to aerate and circulate. I think it's just too deep so I'm gonna dump the excess water and let them recover.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> Sippy Doo troubles bro? lol


Yeah, too tricky for my own good.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 23, 2016)

@skunkwreck


----------



## pop22 (Aug 24, 2016)

Tractor Supply now has a 5'x8' panel like the cattle panel. I just bought 2 for outdoor trellises. One more after I get my new light...



ttystikk said:


> Because netting sucks, lol
> 
> I use sheep n goat fencing. Seriously, it's strong enough to hold a shape, rigid yet can be bent, squares are big enough to stick your hands through and it's easy to use vine clips and soft ties with it.


----------



## pop22 (Aug 24, 2016)

By too deep do you mean not enough airspace at the top? With those big res, you may want a 2" airspace. Just a thought. I do know that's what make's Kratky style hydro work.



ttystikk said:


> WATERFALLS, guys lol I used waterfalls to aerate and circulate. I think it's just too deep so I'm gonna dump the excess water and let them recover.


----------



## purplehays1 (Aug 24, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Have a buddy who just flew to Florida with 21 grams in his carry on. Orlando is decriminalized 21g and under is a ticket so he said fuck it and got no grief. Not first time I've heard of people flying from legal to atleast decriminalized with no issues at all lol he sent me thisView attachment 3763955


Well your buddy risked serious jail time for some weed, really really not smart. It is a federal felony to move marijuana, even that small amount over state lines. Probably an additional felony for using a commercial aircraft.


----------



## gr865 (Aug 24, 2016)

Have a buddy in NM that is about to finish a grow with both morning an afternoon sun doing a 4x16 foot outdoor trellis. It is fucking amazing, he sends me pics weekly. Sorry can't post due to his request. But they are lovely. Damn I am going to have to move so I can do that.
I love growing indoors but would like to have both and indoor and outdoor grow. 
I see what he faces with mainly caterpillars and other insects but damn I want to try.
GR


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 24, 2016)

purplehays1 said:


> Well your buddy risked serious jail time for some weed, really really not smart. It is a federal felony to move marijuana, even that small amount over state lines. Probably an additional felony for using a commercial aircraft.


Shit ive seen people take cuts in their carry on from Cali to Colorado and vice versa and TSA saw them. They aren't that strict on it not his first time doing it Denver airport has never arrested anyone as far as I've heard for cannabis


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 24, 2016)

They wont prosecute what they cant win.....Times are changing


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 24, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Shit ive seen people take cuts in their carry on from Cali to Colorado and vice versa and TSA saw them. They aren't that strict on it not his first time doing it Denver airport has never arrested anyone as far as I've heard for cannabis


Mind blown, completely. Half the Staters and all the Feebs in Mordor would be at the airport here if someone had a live mary jane juana plant in their bag. It would be front page news, seriously, law enforcemwnt would jizz in their pants in every county, I swear to fuck.


----------



## purplehays1 (Aug 24, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> They wont prosecute what they cant win.....Times are changing


uhh the feds always win, they throw u in pounding in the ass prison if u dont plea, im an attorney and i can tell you taking weed on a plane is a bad idea


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 24, 2016)

I didnt say I was doing it. Times are changing though.....


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 24, 2016)

I


Michael Huntherz said:


> Mind blown, completely. Half the Staters and all the Feebs in Mordor would be at the airport here if someone had a live mary jane juana plant in their bag. It would be front page news, seriously, law enforcemwnt would jizz in their pants in every county, I swear to fuck.


Buddy was stopped had his med card they dropped it right there. Even with flying to fl he had 20g which is only a ticket in orlando fl and they let him go. It's mind blowing I know but it's real my buddy got the real sfv cut from Cali and flew it back here on the plane commercial lol no issues. They don't have dogs at the airport they aren't looking Everytime I go there is diff pipes outside the doors and types of weed from people getting lit before they leave. TSA takes pipes let's people go seen hit happen just don't be a dick. But ya know multiple people who have taken weed on the plane no issues


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 24, 2016)

The dogs at every airport are bomb sniffers.....


----------



## gr865 (Aug 24, 2016)

purplehays1 said:


> uhh the feds always win, they throw u in pounding in the ass prison if u dont plea, im an attorney and i can tell you taking weed on a plane is a bad idea


The US mail, it works!


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 24, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> The dogs at every airport are bomb sniffers.....


They would hit on like every damn person here lmao so much weed dogs would be going nuts


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 24, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I
> 
> Buddy was stopped had his med card they dropped it right there. Even with flying to fl he had 20g which is only a ticket in orlando fl and they let him go. It's mind blowing I know but it's real my buddy got the real sfv cut from Cali and flew it back here on the plane commercial lol no issues. They don't have dogs at the airport they aren't looking Everytime I go there is diff pipes outside the doors and types of weed from people getting lit before they leave. TSA takes pipes let's people go seen hit happen just don't be a dick. But ya know multiple people who have taken weed on the plane no issues


I have the real SFV on the way from my former neighbors across the street.  They gave me Banner #3 already and they are holding some other pretty sick lines.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm not knocking what the attorney says, but if everyone just did what they said, there would just be that many more fucking sheep. There's enough of them already and thats the reason gov't does what the fuck they want, and not what the people want.....


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 24, 2016)

I want a really badass Jack Herer pheno, speaking of strains I want to grow. I love smoking that shit. I know a guy who traveled wih old Jack himself for years, fighting the good fight all over Oregon, used to go by the name Starchild, so I get _the nostalgias_ from the flavor of it. I think Starchild is an idiot, but Jack liked him.

@Vnsmkr you have a great point there. And I deleted my post, lol


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 24, 2016)

pop22 said:


> By too deep do you mean not enough airspace at the top? With those big res, you may want a 2" airspace. Just a thought. I do know that's what make's Kratky style hydro work.


No, like 6" was drowning them. So I just dumped it, no biggie. When they dry out and just barely start to wilt I'll give them a couple gallons, let the excess rest in the tub and I'm golden.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 24, 2016)

Y'all are batshit crazy to be even contemplating the idea of intentionally carrying weed on a commercial flight. 

The potential consequences of that are permanently life altering- whether or not they 'should be' or 'will be someday'.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 24, 2016)

Thats true but people also thought rosa parks was batshit crazy getting on that "whites only" bus......


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Thats true but people also thought rosa parks was batshit crazy getting on that "whites only" bus......


One man's druggie is another man's freedom fighter. 

It COULD work, lol


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I want a really badass Jack Herer pheno, speaking of strains I want to grow. I love smoking that shit. I know a guy who traveled wih old Jack himself for years, fighting the good fight all over Oregon, used to go by the name Starchild, so I get _the nostalgias_ from the flavor of it. I think Starchild is an idiot, but Jack liked him.
> 
> @Vnsmkr you have a great point there. And I deleted my post, lol


The Captain Jack I have is supposed to be half Jack Herer. 

And speaking of bear hunting- because we were- where do you have to be to go hunting for the very biggest? 

Sometimes lessons learned from small bears don't apply, making one a novice in a whole new bear hunt.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 25, 2016)

@ttystikk I can promise you I won't be the one as I don't like anything about jail (been there done that), but I certainly don't agree just because someone says I can't or shouldnt do something is the way I will go . Fuck if that were the case I wouldnt even be on here as I never would have grown any of these wonderful herbs


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> @ttystikk I can promise you I won't be the one as I don't like anything about jail (been there done that), but I certainly don't agree just because someone says I can't or shouldnt do something is the way I will go . Fuck if that were the case I wouldnt even be on here as I never would have grown any of these wonderful herbs


Agreed. My attitude can be summed up as risk management; is the reward worth the risk? In the case of carrying something thru TSA my personal answer is no. 

If the reward is potentially huge, that sways the calculation towards the worthwhile... but only for those willing to stomach or minimize the risks involved. 

If we grow, we are accustomed to risk management; that geranium might not make it if we ignore its need for water. 

As weed growers we also deal with legal risks, the range and severity of which changes from place to place. 

25 years ago, I carried ounces through the airport and flew halfway across the country- safe in the knowledge that my buddy worked for the airline at the destination and would snag my bag for me, long before any potential inspection. Risk management.


----------



## abe supercro (Aug 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Thats true but people also thought rosa parks was batshit crazy getting on that "whites only" bus......


https://www.thehenryford.org/explore/stories-of-innovation/what-if/rosa-parks/


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 25, 2016)

As Ive gotten older definitely risk management have kicked in, but I can recall a few from the older days, just for fun: 1. Travelling to the Dominican Republic with 2 packs of perfectly rolled joints perfectly sealed up in the carton of marlboro lights 2. Travelling from Denmark with a selection of hash from Christiania stuffed into moisturizer tins. The reward was I had goods on the other end. The risk? Ok not worth the risk


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 25, 2016)

Abe, you know how you get the chills when reading something thats so "in a league of its own"? I just got those


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The Captain Jack I have is supposed to be half Jack Herer.
> 
> And speaking of bear hunting- because we were- where do you have to be to go hunting for the very biggest?
> 
> Sometimes lessons learned from small bears don't apply, making one a novice in a whole new bear hunt.


The Arctic, of course, Alaska will do, if you literally mean bears. But I know you don't. Email me any updates you have from the others.


----------



## pop22 (Aug 25, 2016)

Got it! Would love to see your op in person!



ttystikk said:


> No, like 6" was drowning them. So I just dumped it, no biggie. When they dry out and just barely start to wilt I'll give them a couple gallons, let the excess rest in the tub and I'm golden.


----------



## pop22 (Aug 25, 2016)

Alaska...



ttystikk said:


> The Captain Jack I have is supposed to be half Jack Herer.
> 
> And speaking of bear hunting- because we were- where do you have to be to go hunting for the very biggest?
> 
> Sometimes lessons learned from small bears don't apply, making one a novice in a whole new bear hunt.


----------



## Afgan King (Aug 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> As Ive gotten older definitely risk management have kicked in, but I can recall a few from the older days, just for fun: 1. Travelling to the Dominican Republic with 2 packs of perfectly rolled joints perfectly sealed up in the carton of marlboro lights 2. Travelling from Denmark with a selection of hash from Christiania stuffed into moisturizer tins. The reward was I had goods on the other end. The risk? Ok not worth the risk


Almost never worth the risk but sometimes you get a lil fuck it in your system ya know? Lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 25, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Almost never worth the risk but sometimes you get a lil fuck it in your system ya know? Lol


I got alot of that in mine


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 25, 2016)

http://pattayaone.net/pattaya-news/230734/thai-government-considers-decriminalizing-marijuana/


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> http://pattayaone.net/pattaya-news/230734/thai-government-considers-decriminalizing-marijuana/


Oh shit. I could be one happy expat.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2016)

It's official, this Jillybean is my new record plant by a nose; 32.5 zips.


----------



## pop22 (Aug 26, 2016)

and its going to keep getting better!



ttystikk said:


> It's official, this Jillybean is my new record plant by a nose; 32.5 zips.
> View attachment 3766270


----------



## SPLFreak808 (Aug 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's official, this Jillybean is my new record plant by a nose; 32.5 zips.
> View attachment 3766270


Lol do you have to trim that by yourself?


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Aug 26, 2016)

what a beautiful mess


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> what a beautiful mess


Smokes even better than it looks. 

Not a mess; that's an edge on shot.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Aug 26, 2016)

it looks great....it was a compliment..


----------



## Frajola (Aug 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's official, this Jillybean is my new record plant by a nose; 32.5 zips.
> View attachment 3766270


holy s...., mate u got the Hulk. Just out of curiosity how long from bean ?
peace, hope to see it again.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2016)

Frajola said:


> holy s...., mate u got the Hulk. Just out of curiosity how long from bean ?
> peace, hope to see it again.


No bean, it's from clone. Took the cutting 6 months ago.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 26, 2016)

Shit yeah man, looks awesome, is awesome


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 26, 2016)

Nice !


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 26, 2016)

@ttystikk was this cyt grown in the Tupur SIP or was this the last go around of your RDWC.........?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Oh shit. I could be one happy expat.


While next door in the Philippines its way different....at least for any harder drugs...Still though, it's fucking bullshit
https://www.rt.com/news/357327-child-killed-philippines-drugs/#.V8DghX-5VxA.twitter


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> @ttystikk was this cyt grown in the Tupur SIP or was this the last go around of your RDWC.........?


Last run in RDWC.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> While next door in the Philippines its way different....at least for any harder drugs...Still though, it's fucking bullshit
> https://www.rt.com/news/357327-child-killed-philippines-drugs/#.V8DghX-5VxA.twitter


The new leader of the Philippines is a thug.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 26, 2016)

On a fucking power trip, as most thuggish leaders are


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> On a fucking power trip, as most thuggish leaders are


Just like Turkey; the ruler wants to blame a scapegoat for the country's problems instead of facing up to them.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 27, 2016)

Hey Ttystikk, do you think the cobs have help contribute to more yield?

I'm trying to get my head around what cob chips equal to hps. 

For example on the below link, what is the actual watts that unit would put out. 

https://cobkits.com/product/clu058-1825-light-engine-single/


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 27, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey Ttystikk, do you think the cobs have help contribute to more yield?
> 
> I'm trying to get my head around what cob chips equal to hps.
> 
> ...



I'm not @ttystikk , but looking over that page it looks like everything is there for you "except" the driver. The driver will determine how many watts that pushes out. I'm pretty sure that's the lights @nevergoodenuf is making now............but I could be wrong..........


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 27, 2016)

That should run @ 100 watts per engine iirc


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 27, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I'm not @ttystikk , but looking over that page it looks like everything is there for you "except" the driver. The driver will determine how many watts that pushes out. I'm pretty sure that's the lights @nevergoodenuf is making now............but I could be wrong..........


Cheers man.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 27, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey Ttystikk, do you think the cobs have help contribute to more yield?
> 
> I'm trying to get my head around what cob chips equal to hps.
> 
> ...


I'm still trying to get used to them. All of my biggest plants were grown under COB LED, and they're all of better quality.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 27, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey Ttystikk, do you think the cobs have help contribute to more yield?
> 
> I'm trying to get my head around what cob chips equal to hps.
> 
> ...


I don't know anything about citizen chips.


----------



## nevergoodenuf (Aug 27, 2016)

@Evil-Mobo I have switched to the CLU058 3618 @ 250 watts. Still keeps me around 140 lumen per watt. One 240-c2100 will give me 253 watts. But I am still running the Luna 300, also.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 27, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> @Evil-Mobo I have switched to the CLU058 3618 @ 250 watts. Still keeps me around 140 lumen per watt. One 240-c2100 will give me 253 watts. But I am still running the Luna 300, also.


I have a question that would be better served via PM for a single COB engine setup, would it be cool if I send a PM?


----------



## nevergoodenuf (Aug 27, 2016)

sure


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 27, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I have a question that would be better served via PM for a single COB engine setup, would it be cool if I send a PM?


Hey now, maybe I wanna know too!


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey now, maybe I wanna know too!


It was a courtesy to not clog up your thread with off topic stuff. But since you asked.

I am thinking of a single COB fixture in 5000K that I'd like to run passively with pin heat sink but was unsure as to the driver to use. Eyeballing the Vero 29 gen 7 50V if ever released lol. Wanted to see how this would work for clones/seed starting to mess with distance of light to plants etc. Instead of buying a two COB fixture or building one only to dim it down halfway was considering the single COB application for this particular "experiment" if you will.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 27, 2016)

I will simply add this. In my testing in my garden T5 lights with the 6500K GE bulbs have performed the best for me for veg and starting seeds. I am fully aware of the fact that the T5 is not the most efficient light source etc etc, but have yet to find a solid replacement. As you can see in @OneHitDone thread on growing lettuce and things of the sort, a lot of LED lights out there are causing mutations on the younger and more sensitive plants in this delicate stage of their life. But I know there has to be another alternative. So I am just searching for the right fit for me and my garden.


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 27, 2016)

if your looking at a LED Cob then get the same color as @REALSTYLES used in his latest veg light 5600K iirc 
covers the spectrum nicely with enuff blue to keep em from running wild on ya 
my future led veg build will be a copy of his , he's a advertizer here now


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 27, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> if your looking at a LED Cob then get the same color as @REALSTYLES used in his latest veg light 5600K iirc
> covers the spectrum nicely with enuff blue to keep em from running wild on ya
> my future led veg build will be a copy of his , he's a advertizer here now


I'll have to search for his veg light all I have seen are the bigger lights with multiple 3590's but not anything veg specific.

Thanks


----------



## REALSTYLES (Aug 27, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I'll have to search for his veg light all I have seen are the bigger lights with multiple 3590's but not anything veg specific.
> 
> Thanks


 Here's the thread http://rollitup.org/t/realstyles-new-cxa-2-studio-build.915102/
and here's the light


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 27, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> Here's the thread http://rollitup.org/t/realstyles-new-cxa-2-studio-build.915102/
> and here's the light
> 
> View attachment 3767125


Ok I see a build thread sort of but you grown anything under it yet?


----------



## REALSTYLES (Aug 27, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Ok I see a build thread sort of but you grown anything under it yet?


In a couple of weeks just finishing up flower next week and will be starting a new grow with them and a 3000k 90CRI light 500w each and I also have a 3000k CD bin 500w and I still need to make a 3500 CD light and stay tuned I've got something up my sleeve. Remember when I said I was going to change out a 12'x15' from HPS to leds well it's happening. I'll start the thread when it's all set up. Btw it's gonna be a solar panel assisted grow.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 27, 2016)

5600 Kelvin would be an interesting thing to try for veg. I love my cool-white and UV T5s, but everyone seems to do dandy with 3500k COBs. I have doubts about stretchy plants under them. I do my first 3-4 weeks of flower under T5 and I keep them really short that way, which I like, for reasons. Once I can grow vert, when we move to a new house, I will grow to the ceiling...but for now, short is good. Sure, I have harvested 5'6" plants in my setup, but I do not prefer it.

@Evil-Mobo - I wonder why lettuce growers don't dim the fucking lights if they are too bright? As in fewer per area or drive them softer? Do they think the mutations are being caused by the amount, or the quality of the light? I'm pretty sure a lot of COB setups are throwing too much light, would love to see a lot more folks doing rigorous PAR readings taken in situ, which is easy for me to say...but yeah, lots of work to do in the field out there in LES-land.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 28, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> 5600 Kelvin would be an interesting thing to try for veg. I love my cool-white and UV T5s, but everyone seems to do dandy with 3500k COBs. I have doubts about stretchy plants under them. I do my first 3-4 weeks of flower under T5 and I keep them really short that way, which I like, for reasons. Once I can grow vert, when we move to a new house, I will grow to the ceiling...but for now, short is good. Sure, I have harvested 5'6" plants in my setup, but I do not prefer it.
> 
> @Evil-Mobo - I wonder why lettuce growers don't dim the fucking lights if they are too bright? As in fewer per area or drive them softer? Do they think the mutations are being caused by the amount, or the quality of the light? I'm pretty sure a lot of COB setups are throwing too much light, would love to see a lot more folks doing rigorous PAR readings taken in situ, which is easy for me to say...but yeah, lots of work to do in the field out there in LES-land.



I agree. And I will be doing my own testing soon. I think full power the lights needs to be raised up higher vs thrown on top of the plants. I also believe for veg more cobs dimmed down for better light coverage would do better. I will be testing a 5000K 4 COB veg light soon and we will see it will have a dimmer so I can fuck around with total watts and height from canopy etc.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 28, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I agree. And I will be doing my own testing soon. I think full power the lights needs to be raised up higher vs thrown on top of the plants. I also believe for veg more cobs dimmed down for better light coverage would do better. I will be testing a 5000K 4 COB veg light soon and we will see it will have a dimmer so I can fuck around with total watts and height from canopy etc.


Lots of ways to skin the light distributing cat. If more sources is your goal, there are plenty of smaller wattage COB LED chips out there to choose from. And they're cheap.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Aug 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lots of ways to skin the light distributing cat. If more sources is your goal, there are plenty of smaller wattage COB LED chips out there to choose from. And they're cheap.


I will soon find out but right now my mission is to find a suitable replacement for my T5's for VEG. I know COB's will work fine for flower, but seed starting and VEG seems to be where most of the controversy and lack of proof is to back anything up. Don't you yourself veg with CMH lights too? Am I going down a path that will just lead to disappointment here?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 28, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I will soon find out but right now my mission is to find a suitable replacement for my T5's for VEG. I know COB's will work fine for flower, but seed starting and VEG seems to be where most of the controversy and lack of proof is to back anything up. Don't you yourself veg with CMH lights too? Am I going down a path that will just lead to disappointment here?


My 3500K COB LED is fabulous for veg.

EDIT: Best damned light that ever happened to my veg girls, bar none. In case I had left any doubt, Lol


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 28, 2016)

@Shugglet the fun stuff starts on page 129.

Cuz, you know, everything I did before that was a total waste of time, lol


----------



## Jah's Love (Aug 28, 2016)

Yo mon - I keep looking, but I haven't been able to find which Meanwell drivers you are using to power your COBs @ 72V. Can you point me to a model number? 
Respect!


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 28, 2016)

Jah's Love said:


> Yo mon - I keep looking, but I haven't been able to find which Meanwell drivers you are using to power your COBs @ 72V. Can you point me to a model number?
> Respect!


Meanwell HLG-185H-C700B to drive 4 CXB3590 CD BIN 72V 3500K chips at a time.


----------



## Jah's Love (Aug 28, 2016)

Much respect my brother!
Now, if you could only tell me what 80 deg lenses you are using, I would be eternally grateful! (I'm thinking you got them from Kingbrite?)
Thanks in advance. Jah, Rastafari!


----------



## pinner420 (Aug 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Meanwell HLG-185H-C700B to drive 4 CXB3590 CD BIN 72V 3500K chips at a time.


Im just waiting to buy the ttystikk 3590 vertical special ready to hang. Are you gonna build a website site for it?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2016)

Jah's Love said:


> Much respect my brother!
> Now, if you could only tell me what 80 deg lenses you are using, I would be eternally grateful! (I'm thinking you got them from Kingbrite?)
> Thanks in advance. Jah, Rastafari!


Yes, that's where they came from. I don't recall the brand.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Im just waiting to buy the ttystikk 3590 vertical special ready to hang. Are you gonna build a website site for it?


It's already under construction.


----------



## Shugglet (Aug 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @Shugglet the fun stuff starts on page 129.
> 
> Cuz, you know, everything I did before that was a total waste of time, lol


Ill definitely check it out. But can you blame me for not wanting to sift though ~150 pages of info when you know where to look? lol


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Meanwell HLG-185H-C700B to drive 4 CXB3590 CD BIN 72V 3500K chips at a time.


Hey bro, I have a couple questions I hope you can help out with. Just trying to get my head around the cob and I think I'm there. 

If your using that driver to run 4, does that mean you are supplying 50w to each cob, but the output of the led is roughly 150w? 

Second question, how many cobs would I need to flower out a 4x4 wall. Thinking of doing the side/back walls of my tent and make some sort of u shaped frame, that hangs vert and have cobs running down them. 

I'm thinking you would want two rows per side? 

Hope that makes sense


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 29, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> If your using that driver to run 4, does that mean you are supplying 50w to each cob, but the output of the led is roughly 150w?


the idea is to run softer to save power & when you compare ratios . the LED puts out more light at the lower rate than the LED does when at full power 
ie; you could run at full power but y'd be wasting power with less light to more heat ratios


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey bro, I have a couple questions I hope you can help out with. Just trying to get my head around the cob and I think I'm there.
> 
> If your using that driver to run 4, does that mean you are supplying 50w to each cob, but the output of the led is roughly 150w?
> 
> ...


4 COB chips x 50W each = 200W. In practice each chip is getting a bit more because B series driver with capped dooming leads, plus driver loses = 225W from the wall. 

IF you were to use this same combination, you'd do fine with two on a 4x4. I sized mine for 2x3' of canopy per module and they're all but too strong.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> the idea is to run softer to save power & when you compare ratios . the LED puts out more light at the lower rate than the LED does when at full power
> ie; you could run at full power but y'd be wasting power with less light to more heat ratios


While this is true, it generally isn't necessary or desirable to take this to extremes, because the incremental cost of more chips takes a long time to pay back in increased efficiency.


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> While this is true, it generally isn't necessary or desirable to take this to extremes, because the incremental cost of more chips takes a long time to pay back in increased efficiency.


Just putting it in it's simplest terms , that i could grasp when i was a led noob 
I run @ 1400 like you do even gonna run 72 volt with that same meanwell u use 
I myself was confused at 1st about the rated high watt# vs what wattage they are actually running the cobs at


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 4 COB chips x 50W each = 200W. In practice each chip is getting a bit more because B series driver with capped dooming leads, plus driver loses = 225W from the wall.
> 
> IF you were to use this same combination, you'd do fine with two on a 4x4. I sized mine for 2x3' of canopy per module and they're all but too strong.


Cheers bro. That makes sense. Did you mean two cob lights per 4x4 wall or 2 x 4 cobs. So 8 all up?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers bro. That makes sense. Did you mean two cob lights per 4x4 wall or 2 x 4 cobs. So 8 all up?


Two of my modules per 4 x 4, that's a total of 8 chips, two drivers and a beer...

In a tree.

I hope this isn't golf, my score would suck.


----------



## verticalgrow (Aug 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Two of my modules per 4 x 4, that's a total of 8 chips, two drivers and a beer...
> 
> In a tree.
> 
> I hope this isn't golf, my score would suck.


tty 
id rather be the Tiger woods of pot anyday


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 29, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> tty
> id rather be the Tiger woods of pot anyday


I'd rather be the Happy Gilmore of dank-ass nugs. 




Not dank ass-nugs, dank-ass nugs. Punctuation is important.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I'd rather be the Happy Gilmore of dank-ass nugs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both of my parents taught English. Punctuation is very important!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Both of my parents taught English. Punctuation is very important!


Ha ha ha, LMAO. I'm amazed that people get more offended at punctuation, grammar, and words even before they get offended at being fucked


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 29, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Ha ha ha, LMAO. I'm amazed that people get more offended at punctuation, grammar, and words even before they get offended at being fucked


Words are words, of course, but I wasn't calling anyone out, just observing the power of the lowly hyphen. Ain't a thing I like about getting fucked unless carnally speaking. Don't make me mad, you wouldn't like me when I am mad. Thankfully these days I am pretty fucking chill. Tty and I had this conversation recently, in fact, haha.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 29, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Words are words, of course, but I wasn't calling anyone out, just observing the power of the lowly hyphen. Ain't a thing I like about getting fucked unless carnally speaking. Don't make me mad, you wouldn't like me when I am mad. Thankfully these days I am pretty fucking chill. Tty and I had this conversation recently, in fact, haha.


I know you werent man. I was just making a comment in general about the ignorance of man


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Words are words, of course, but I wasn't calling anyone out, just observing the power of the lowly hyphen. Ain't a thing I like about getting fucked unless carnally speaking. Don't make me mad, you wouldn't like me when I am mad. Thankfully these days I am pretty fucking chill. Tty and I had this conversation recently, in fact, haha.


Yes we did. We agreed that remaining calm in this crazy fucked up world is very challenging, but most of the time it's worth the effort. 

And the rest of the time it's better than having to hide the body...


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yes we did. We agreed that remaining calm in this crazy fucked up world is very challenging, but most of the time it's worth the effort.
> 
> And the rest of the time it's better than having to hide the body...


This came to mind yesterday


----------



## torontoke (Aug 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yes we did. We agreed that remaining calm in this crazy fucked up world is very challenging, but most of the time it's worth the effort.
> 
> And the rest of the time it's better than having to hide the body...


The true key to enjoying life is getting to the stage of inner peace and realizing that certain constants in the universe are unalterable.
No situation is made better by being angry or upset. Just wasted energy.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 29, 2016)

torontoke said:


> The true key to enjoying life is getting to the stage of inner peace and realizing that certain constants in the universe are unalterable.
> No situation is made better by being angry or upset. Just wasted energy.


My inner peace has been destroyed lately by someone telling me if I dont pay rent me and my family will be homeless. I agree being angry or upset doesnt help fuckall


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Aug 29, 2016)

torontoke said:


> The true key to enjoying life is getting to the stage of inner peace and realizing that certain constants in the universe are unalterable.
> No situation is made better by being angry or upset. Just wasted energy.


Hm, sometimes being angry and/or upset can help drive the British Empire out of your home country after years of Imperial rule. So I don't think that's universally true, but I do take your meaning and agree, with limitations.


----------



## Bbcchance (Aug 30, 2016)

I find the key to a happy and stress free day is as simple as having the wife take the kids to visit grandma and leaving me home with just the dog and my ganja


----------



## schuylaar (Aug 30, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Have a buddy who just flew to Florida with 21 grams in his carry on. Orlando is decriminalized 21g and under is a ticket so he said fuck it and got no grief. Not first time I've heard of people flying from legal to atleast decriminalized with no issues at all lol he sent me thisView attachment 3763955


Plus organic matter does not show up as anything on those X-ray's.

Unless they pulled it out for random bag search, they didn't even know it was there.


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 30, 2016)

schuylaar said:


> Plus organic matter does not show up as anything on those X-ray's.
> 
> Unless they pulled it out for random bag search, they didn't even know it was there.


I got pulled outta line when they seen 5 oz of Tea in 5 different bags on that 'xray' 
, TSA called over the local cops to watch the opening of my bag


----------



## schuylaar (Aug 30, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> They wont prosecute what they cant win.....Times are changing


Even if the airport is not in a weed friendly place, you may get no more than a ticket.

From what I understand it's a pain in the ass to arrest someone for even a few zips.

It's something about TSA and local law enforcement interaction.


----------



## schuylaar (Aug 30, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> I got pulled outta line when they seen 5 oz of Tea in 5 different bags on that 'xray'
> , TSA called over the local cops to watch the opening of my bag


http://snallabolaget.com/?page_id=666


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 30, 2016)

schuylaar said:


> Plus organic matter does not show up as anything on those X-ray's.
> 
> Unless they pulled it out for random bag search, they didn't even know it was there.


The xrays that scan bags certainly can see organic matter. It generally shows as a orange color from memory


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 30, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> I got pulled outta line when they seen 5 oz of Tea in 5 different bags on that 'xray'
> , TSA called over the local cops to watch the opening of my bag


Probably thought you were packing coke/heroin seriously. I carry kilos of coffee, but its packed all together right on top, and they never open shit


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 30, 2016)

A very thin layer would slip right through.


----------



## Bbcchance (Aug 30, 2016)

Am I the only purist who still believes in keistering?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 30, 2016)

Bbcchance said:


> Am I the only purist who still believes in keistering?


Ha ha, its the only way I know of hash being smuggled. None of them carry it on their person, more like in their person. Not so much up the ass, but down the throat


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 30, 2016)

Bbcchance said:


> Am I the only purist who still believes in keistering?


That's the goooooood shit, man-


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's the goooooood shit, man-


Literally


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 30, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Literally


Uh yeah, hence the punchline bro. 

Something tells me you're really enjoying the Green Crack today!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Uh yeah, hence the punchline bro.
> 
> Something tells me you're really enjoying the Green Crack today!


to be honest I havent had any yet today. Just had a moment where I was thinking about everything on my plate currently and teared up. Yeah about to vape the whole fucking thing


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 30, 2016)

I can shoulder a whole lot of shit man, but its stacked pretty gd high at this point


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 30, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I can shoulder a whole lot of shit man, but its stacked pretty gd high at this point


I feel you, brother.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Aug 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I feel you, brother.


Know ya do. I am always hopeful everyday some news will come, but Oct 10 can't get here soon enough. So close yet so far away


----------



## kiwipaulie (Aug 30, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> to be honest I havent had any yet today. Just had a moment where I was thinking about everything on my plate currently and teared up. Yeah about to vape the whole fucking thing


Hey bro, sorry to hear, sounds like you got a bit on. No matter what, the future always gets better bro.

Last year for me was the hardest. Lost a few very close people to me including my dad dying suddenly.


----------



## schuylaar (Aug 31, 2016)

Bbcchance said:


> Am I the only purist who still believes in keistering?


Not when you have an alternative orifice..read on:

https://nevergetbusted.com/2012/08/28/safely-carry-your-stash-of-marijuana-through-airports/

Also:

If you’re worried about illegal drugs coming into your town on a jet plane, don’t look to the TSA to stop that influx. “TSA security officers do not search for marijuana or other drugs,” the agency explains on its website. The reason lies in TSA’s mission: “TSA’s screening procedures, which are governed by federal law, are focused on security and are designed to detect potential threats to aviation and passengers,” Feinstein notes.

If an officer happens upon what looks like drugs in someone’s bag, “TSA refers the matter to law enforcement,” Feinstein notes. But experts say that given their other priorities, TSA officers may sometimes look the other way even when they suspect drugs are present. (There have been reports of TSA officers leaving warning notes for passengers carrying marijuana, rather than turning them in, even though the officers could face punishment for taking that approach.)

It’s ultimately up to law enforcement — not the TSA — to determine whether to initiate a criminal investigation for someone suspected of smuggling drugs through an airport, says Feinstein.

http://nypost.com/2015/06/11/10-things-the-tsa-isnt-telling-you/

For something very small, take your Chapstick and unscrew it all the way and take it out. Pack the Chapstick container with DOC, cut Chapstick and pack on top..your standing in line..you empty your pockets..uh-oh!!! Your lips are dry swipe them with your Chapstick and thrown in bin..you walk through and claim Chapstick in said bin

For airline bathroom, I use a smokeless hitter..works like a charm and goes into my purse along with lighter.


----------



## GroErr (Aug 31, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I can shoulder a whole lot of shit man, but its stacked pretty gd high at this point


Shit bro, feeling it for you over here, been in a few tight spots over the years, lost everything at 35, lost 1/2 of everything on the books again at 48, but shit eventually turned around. I know it doesn't do much for you right now but keep your chin up and focus on what you can do. Cheers & enjoy that puff!


----------



## Vumar (Sep 6, 2016)

Officially subb'd~!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2016)

Tin work by my HVAC guy, building my dual core water to forced air HVAC system. One heat exchange core is for hot water to heat my house, the other is for cold with which to cool. 

It will run on the same system with growroom HVAC, and thus operating costs will be shared and often eliminated altogether.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2016)

I know, I know- tin boxes are boring. Maybe to you, but I'm going to enjoy how they keep me warm all winter.


----------



## Frajola (Sep 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I know, I know- tin boxes are boring. Maybe to you, but I'm going to enjoy how they keep me warm all winter.


I hope I will understand how the whole thing works, as the updates go on, lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2016)

Frajola said:


> I hope I will understand how the whole thing works, as the updates go on, lol.


It really is this simple; excess heat from grow heats house.


----------



## verticalgrow (Sep 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you for the kind words! I've worked at it for years now and I feel like I'm finally starting to get somewhere interesting.
> 
> They're Cree CXB3590 CB bin 3500K 72V chips, driven at 700mA. This is effectively the same as running 36V chips at 1400mA. My Meanwell B type driver will give 8% over is maximum output if the dimming leads are capped off, so my chips run at about 54W each.


Cheers tty,
How many COBs per driver are u running?
Also what is the spacing between COBs?
The Cob spacing looks tight, is that for intensity or something to do
with cooling?
VG


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> Cheers tty,
> How many COBs per driver are u running?
> Also what is the spacing between COBs?
> The Cob spacing looks tight, is that for intensity or something to do
> ...


One Meanwell HLG-185H-C700B per 4 Cree CXB3590 3500K 72V chips. 80 degree KB lenses.

They're spaced as they are because I'm looking for even coverage over a 2' x 3' area for each module and simply spacing them evenly would not do that.


----------



## Vumar (Sep 16, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> Cheers tty,
> How many COBs per driver are u running?
> Also what is the spacing between COBs?
> The Cob spacing looks tight, is that for intensity or something to do
> ...


Its very interesting, to say the least, in person. This guy uses every bit of space and excess energy that's available. Aside from composting his own waste (you dont do that yet do you?). I mean your half way to soil... might as well start going soil n composting your shit man ;P


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Tin work by my HVAC guy, building my dual core water to forced air HVAC system. One heat exchange core is for hot water to heat my house, the other is for cold with which to cool.
> 
> It will run on the same system with growroom HVAC, and thus operating costs will be shared and often eliminated altogether.


You need a new sheet metal guy .


----------



## Vumar (Sep 16, 2016)

Why do you say that? Poor corners n connections?


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 16, 2016)

Yes, just looks slapped together is all. Should be cross broke and Pittsburg seams but I'm picky like that


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> You need a new sheet metal guy .


I know it isn't perfect but it's coming together. It will work and that's the important thing. I'm open to any problem solving ideas.


----------



## Big_Lou (Sep 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's official, this Jillybean is my new record plant by a nose; 32.5 zips.
> View attachment 3766270


Holy shit, man! Gorgeous. I'll be working with a bucket tucked away in a closet, sigh. 

Hey, gotta start _some_where, though.


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I know it isn't perfect but it's coming together. It will work and that's the important thing. I'm open to any problem solving ideas.


No your right tyy it will work and if it was free then it looks great . If you paid for it then yup you need a new "guy" . I'm the height of junkyard cobbler and yup time to start getting the lab in order for a new season. So wondering what your thoughts are on these lights if you don't mind I do plan in building one using Cree because it looks like fun but for $260 would it be ok to start with, or just a cheap piece of crap?


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 16, 2016)

Are you noticing any difference in the rate of growth switching up your setup re RDWC to your present grow? Sorry if you've already mentioned this, I'm skimming lol.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> No your right tyy it will work and if it was free then it looks great . If you paid for it then yup you need a new "guy" . I'm the height of junkyard cobbler and yup time to start getting the lab in order for a new season. So wondering what your thoughts are on these lights if you don't mind View attachment 3782469View attachment 3782470I do plan in building one using Cree because it looks like fun but for $260 would it be ok to start with, or just a cheap piece of crap?


Looks like cheap piece of crap that I would save that 260 on, but maybe Tty has different input


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> Holy shit, man! Gorgeous. I'll be working with a bucket tucked away in a closet, sigh.
> 
> Hey, gotta start _some_where, though.


Thank you, sir. I started with very similar difficulties. It's been a great journey this far, and it still looks even better ahead!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> No your right tyy it will work and if it was free then it looks great . If you paid for it then yup you need a new "guy" . I'm the height of junkyard cobbler and yup time to start getting the lab in order for a new season. So wondering what your thoughts are on these lights if you don't mind View attachment 3782469View attachment 3782470I do plan in building one using Cree because it looks like fun but for $260 would it be ok to start with, or just a cheap piece of crap?


Not free by a wide margin but I've never seen the unit we need.


----------



## Big_Lou (Sep 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you, sir. I started with very similar difficulties. It's been a great journey this far, and it still looks even better ahead!






Bonus pic:


Spoiler



Albacore with leaf lettuce on grain bread!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Are you noticing any difference in the rate of growth switching up your setup re RDWC to your present grow? Sorry if you've already mentioned this, I'm skimming lol.


Better consistency and fault tolerance. They absolutely don't suffer in the rate of growth department.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> View attachment 3782518
> 
> View attachment 3782519
> 
> ...


I foresee good portents in those 'tea leaves'


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> No your right tyy it will work and if it was free then it looks great . If you paid for it then yup you need a new "guy" . I'm the height of junkyard cobbler and yup time to start getting the lab in order for a new season. So wondering what your thoughts are on these lights if you don't mind View attachment 3782469View attachment 3782470I do plan in building one using Cree because it looks like fun but for $260 would it be ok to start with, or just a cheap piece of crap?


I really couldn't tell you, I don't know my chips all that well.


----------



## Big_Lou (Sep 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I foresee good portents in those 'tea leaves'


Zippo as of yet...40+ hours in the bath...all sunk to the bottom and feel slimy/waterlogged...

I've got hundreds, so either way something will eventually 'pop'.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 16, 2016)

You taking them out of the water & into a paper towel once they sink eh?


----------



## Big_Lou (Sep 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> You taking them out of the water & into a paper towel once they sink eh?


Should I be?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 16, 2016)

Yes, the water is only to give the seed ability to intake that water so it will pop and sprout.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 16, 2016)

If they float they are likely duds, but if they sink, they should sprout


----------



## Big_Lou (Sep 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> If they float they are likely duds, but if they sink, they should sprout


Oh, news to me! Thanks!

I'll have them in wet toweling for how long? (Not going to plant these, just a trial run, I haven't got my shit ready yet so I'm tossing them in the garden.)


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 16, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> Oh, news to me! Thanks!
> 
> I'll have them in wet toweling for how long? (Not going to plant these, just a trial run, I haven't got my shit ready yet so I'm tossing them in the garden.)


Depends on the seed, but I usually see tails in a couple days. Myself, I skip the cup of water, usually either straight into soil for me or into wet paper towels straight away.

Edit: not wet paper towels, but DAMP


----------



## Big_Lou (Sep 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Depends on the seed, but I usually see tails in a couple days. Myself, I skip the cup of water, usually either straight into soil for me or into wet paper towels straight away.


Ah. Regarding the soak, a few folks here recommended it and they've got nice bushy plants. I'm just going for a single closet plant, harvest for medicinal usage and rinse/repeat.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 16, 2016)

My new coco germination method, which super-fancy.

 

I do use a heat mat outside of the summer months. I use the chopstick to make a half inch hole.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 16, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> My new coco germination method, which super-fancy.
> 
> View attachment 3782556
> 
> I do use a heat mat outside of the summer months. I use the chopstick to make a half inch hole.


Thats usually how I do mine in soil (promix)


----------



## Big_Lou (Sep 16, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> My new coco germination method, which super-fancy.
> 
> View attachment 3782556
> 
> I do use a heat mat outside of the summer months. I use the chopstick to make a half inch hole.


Ooooooo...so many going at once.

I'll be using a large pail, some rubber mats, and a light from Home Depot.


----------



## Big_Lou (Sep 16, 2016)

Oh, @ttystikk, here is that small alley near my garden....I tossed a handful of seeds out like Johnny Appleseed, but nothing came of it....at least not anything that I can see. (?)


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 16, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> Ooooooo...so many going at once.
> 
> I'll be using a large pail, some rubber mats, and a light from Home Depot.


Just a baker's dozen total, and 7 of them are regs.
Any males will most likely get culled. Then one is a Bruce Banner mom, and one Jean Guy (looking for that oldskool polecat vibe?) mom. I am doing a little pheno hunting so the girls will mostly get cloned-out, then test runs will happen. There's barely any plants/seeds there at all.


----------



## Frajola (Sep 16, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> View attachment 3782518
> 
> View attachment 3782519
> 
> ...


er u go !


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2016)

Funkadelic, that's all I can say lol


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I really couldn't tell you, I don't know my chips all that well.


Thanks tty, I spent a few hours trying to get my head around power supplies and different LED's last night and more confused than ever lol. I'm looking for a building lights dummies thing now .


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 17, 2016)

Well I know shit about lights but if you can get your hands on a couple of ECM blowers you'll save about 50% of running cost and up here that's huge, enough to pay for the motors in a couple of years. This is the unit that we use only because we have a working relationship and get great pricing http://www.lifebreath.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/69-AH_0912.pdf. But yes way cheaper to build one. Another we have used is aquatherm.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Well I know shit about lights but if you can get your hands on a couple of ECM blowers you'll save about 50% of running cost and up here that's huge, enough to pay for the motors in a couple of years. This is the unit that we use only because we have a working relationship and get great pricing http://www.lifebreath.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/69-AH_0912.pdf. But yes way cheaper to build one. Another we have used is aquatherm.


What's an ECM blower?


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 17, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Just a baker's dozen total, and 7 of them are regs.
> Any males will most likely get culled. Then one is a Bruce Banner mom, and one Jean Guy (looking for that oldskool polecat vibe?) mom. I am doing a little pheno hunting so the girls will mostly get cloned-out, then test runs will happen. There's barely any plants/seeds there at all.


You'll like the Jean Guy, I did try a few beans last year from Crop King but they didn't do well so were culled but probably my doing. I've smoked it a few times and was always impressed.


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> What's an ECM blower?


Their an electronically commutated motor that is basically a 3 phase DC motor. A typical motor on high draws about 4-5 amps and on high with same airflow ECM motors run 1-2. They are pricey but like I said the cost of running will pay back rather quickly. They are adding them now to raise gas fired equipment ratings as they've peaked out on the combustion side. The duct design is critical though, if static is to high the savings is lost. Do you have an ideal of how much air you need to move?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Their an electronically commutated motor that is basically a 3 phase DC motor. A typical motor on high draws about 4-5 amps and on high with same airflow ECM motors run 1-2. They are pricey but like I said the cost of running will pay back rather quickly. They are adding them now to raise gas fired equipment ratings as they've peaked out on the combustion side. The duct design is critical though, if static is to high the savings is lost. Do you have an ideal of how much air you need to move?


Using the blowers from junk furnaces, they were free. Heat exchange cores were just $50 each, junkyard finds.

The whole setup is being kit bashed on the fly.


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 17, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> Oh, @ttystikk, here is that small alley near my garden....I tossed a handful of seeds out like Johnny Appleseed, but nothing came of it....at least not anything that I can see. (?)
> 
> View attachment 3782560
> 
> View attachment 3782559


Ok now you've tweaked my interest. Tyy's vertical against my 7' fence . Wonder if anyone would notice it was pot . As long as it stays on my side should be good lol.


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Using the blowers from junk furnaces, they were free. Heat exchange cores were just $50 each, junkyard finds.
> 
> The whole setup is being kit bashed on the fly.


I know....trust me, I respect that. I've built my lab using found stuff lol. I have about 10 of those blowers sitting around....you just never know what you'll need. I have three storage buildings and my tractor is parked under a tarp lol. I hope I get to watch the kids sorting through the stuff from above when I'm dead it'll be a hoot lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I know....trust me, I respect that. I've built my lab using found stuff lol. I have about 10 of those blowers sitting around....you just never know what you'll need. I have three storage buildings and my tractor is parked under a tarp lol. I hope I get to watch the kids sorting through the stuff from above when I'm dead it'll be a hoot lol.


Oh shit, do NOT validate my packrat tendencies like that! I'm bad enough as it is, just ask my friends!

I'm spending extra on inexpert tinwork but if it's functional that's what counts.


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 17, 2016)

I'm validating myself using you as a comparison lol. And when did it go from collector to hoarder .... damn reality tv lol


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I'm validating myself using you as a comparison lol. And when did it go from collector to hoarder .... damn reality tv lol


When I give up on my garage ever being cleaned out, lmao


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> You'll like the Jean Guy, I did try a few beans last year from Crop King but they didn't do well so were culled but probably my doing. I've smoked it a few times and was always impressed.


I have a buddy who has grown it from three different beans, these are from House of the Great Gardener up there in Canuckia, this is a bean from him. Every run has been lime green skunky goodness, and it is often too potent for casual burners. I am sold, glad to hear the Crop King gear is solid too.


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 17, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I have a buddy who has grown it from three different beans, these are from House of the Great Gardener up there in Canuckia, this is a bean from him. Every run has been lime green skunky goodness, and it is often too potent for casual burners. I am sold, glad to hear the Crop King gear is solid too.


Actually it was HOGG ... Sorry I'm starting to get confused breeder wise . When I first tried it was nothing about it other than legends lol.


----------



## febisfebi (Sep 17, 2016)

@ttystikk I have been doing my best to catch up on your thread in what little spare time I have, but I have finaly gotten caught up from pg 129, which is when u had the cob's installed right? I remember you saying everything before that was a waste of time, lol.
Great work by the way, I am very intrigued by everything you are doing, I must say you are truly one of a kind! I was especially entertained when you posted the picture with the old lady (standing on a stool no less) in there for comparison's sake to show the scale of it all. Those are some massive plants, you got there. (wait, no those aren't plants, those are trees) how long do you veg those to get that big, and under what kind of luminaire? I seem to remember something about a 6 month veg, but Im pretty sure that was just that one plant, not normal operation, but I wouldn't be surprised, lol.

I am left with more questions than answers however, but i'll start with the water cooling system, since that's what I was originally asking you about. 

As I understand it you are using a hollow rectuangular aluminum extrusion 1/16" thick, and something like 1"x2" (i forget the exact dimensions you said) and in maybe 2 or 3 foot sections, with cobs mounted them, and insulation around the rest, with chilled water running through them. 

How are the cob's mounted to the thin aluminum. You obviously can't use screws on holders, or thru the chip, but then again, you are using lenses, so they are probably holding the cobs down. are you using holders, or are they soldered? How, and what are the lenses mounted to exactly? I can't imagine trying mount something solid, that can handle heat (eg. no structural solder joints), with nothing to screw into. how is your super waterproof (I assume) connection between the hosing that feeds these units and the units themselves, constructed? were you able to use some super cool adapter or did you have something custom made, and if so, how is it put together?

I could go on and on, but lets start with this. I would love to chat with you on skype or something sometime, I have a lot of questions, and ideas I would love to discuss with you! and You of all people know how long my posts can get more often than not, haha
Keep up the good work, and take care brother!


----------



## borbor (Sep 18, 2016)

Good to see you yesterday! I'm tempted for more Kriek!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 18, 2016)

borbor said:


> Good to see you yesterday! I'm tempted for more Kriek!


I'm up the Kriek without a paddle lol

Had a great time!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 18, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> @ttystikk I have been doing my best to catch up on your thread in what little spare time I have, but I have finaly gotten caught up from pg 129, which is when u had the cob's installed right? I remember you saying everything before that was a waste of time, lol.
> Great work by the way, I am very intrigued by everything you are doing, I must say you are truly one of a kind! I was especially entertained when you posted the picture with the old lady (standing on a stool no less) in there for comparison's sake to show the scale of it all. Those are some massive plants, you got there. (wait, no those aren't plants, those are trees) how long do you veg those to get that big, and under what kind of luminaire? I seem to remember something about a 6 month veg, but Im pretty sure that was just that one plant, not normal operation, but I wouldn't be surprised, lol.
> 
> I am left with more questions than answers however, but i'll start with the water cooling system, since that's what I was originally asking you about.
> ...


My water cooling blocks are 2" tall x 4" wide x 3/16" thick. All holes into the block are drilled blind. COB LED is mounted directly on the face with TIM for maximum heat transfer.

Not sure what else you're asking?


----------



## febisfebi (Sep 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My water cooling blocks are 2" tall x 4" wide x 3/16" thick. All holes into the block are drilled blind. COB LED is mounted directly on the face with TIM for maximum heat transfer.
> 
> Not sure what else you're asking?


thats most of it, thats very intersting. I assume it was done on a drill press with a stop obviosly, and then whoever built it must have had to bottom out (or flatten out rather) the blind holes, with an endmill im guessing, then use a botttoming tap. What size/pitch threads do you mount with? Im, guessing you dont have any sort of holder under those lenses, so screws straight thru the holes in the cob, and soldered wires?. I was just wondering how the endcaps on the sections are constructed. do you have aluminum plate welded to the end with a hole through it, bulkhead adapter to hook up to the hoses? if not, how is that set up?


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## ttystikk (Sep 21, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> thats most of it, thats very intersting. I assume it was done on a drill press with a stop obviosly, and then whoever built it must have had to bottom out (or flatten out rather) the blind holes, with an endmill im guessing, then use a botttoming tap. What size/pitch threads do you mount with? Im, guessing you dont have any sort of holder under those lenses, so screws straight thru the holes in the cob, and soldered wires?. I was just wondering how the endcaps on the sections are constructed. do you have aluminum plate welded to the end with a hole through it, bulkhead adapter to hook up to the hoses? if not, how is that set up?


I don't think it took all those steps to drill some blind holes. I didn't do it. Threads match the screws used on the COB holders, yes that's how they're attached.

End caps welded on, drilled and tapped for 1/2" NPT. Holes drilled through dog ears for mounting.

Water stays inside, electronics stay outside and all's well with the world lol


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## febisfebi (Sep 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't think it took all those steps to drill some blind holes. I didn't do it. Threads match the screws used on the COB holders, yes that's how they're attached.
> 
> End caps welded on, drilled and tapped for 1/2" NPT. Holes drilled through dog ears for mounting.
> 
> Water stays inside, electronics stay outside and all's well with the world lol


I am a machinist by trade, although I stopped working at machine shops some years ago, by my own decisiion. I am quite sure however that is the only way to drill a true blind hole like that unless you have a lot of extra material to waste for the pointed end shape of a drillbit. Since the material is only 3/16" thick, perhaps they just skipped the drill bit alltogether, made sure the material was secured in a vise, and just cut the hole with a flat ended endmill. all of that can be done on a drillpress, with a vise or other securing jig, as long as your not trying to hold your material steady by hand, as the endmill will jerk the material around since there is no pointed end. Please dont anybody ever try that! it is likely that your hand will be the one with the hole in it. how deep do your m3 holes go thru the 3/16"? also just out of curiosity, aluminum welding requires special equipment and skill. What kind of money did you have to spend to get those endcaps welded on, if you dont mind me asking?
Thanks for all the interesting reads, I'v had a lot of fun reading your thread!


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## ttystikk (Sep 21, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> I am a machinist by trade, although I stopped working at machine shops some years ago, by my own decisiion. I am quite sure however that is the only way to drill a true blind hole like that unless you have a lot of extra material to waste for the pointed end shape of a drillbit. Since the material is only 3/16" thick, perhaps they just skipped the drill bit alltogether, made sure the material was secured in a vise, and just cut the hole with a flat ended endmill. all of that can be done on a drillpress, with a vise or other securing jig, as long as your not trying to hold your material steady by hand, as the endmill will jerk the material around since there is no pointed end. Please dont anybody ever try that! it is likely that your hand will be the one with the hole in it. how deep do your m3 holes go thru the 3/16"? also just out of curiosity, aluminum welding requires special equipment and skill. What kind of money did you have to spend to get those endcaps welded on, if you dont mind me asking?
> Thanks for all the interesting reads, I'v had a lot of fun reading your thread!


I didn't do the work, and it's very clear you know far more than I do about that kind of work.

I had it done to bring chip operating temperature down to increase chip efficiency. The chips do make more light.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 21, 2016)

Great ideal re water cooling the led's tyy. I may have to build something myself but would probably try epoxy and copper tubes on aluminum plate (got all that in the barn somewhere lol).


febisfebi said:


> I am a machinist by trade, although I stopped working at machine shops some years ago, by my own decisiion. I am quite sure however that is the only way to drill a true blind hole like that unless you have a lot of extra material to waste for the pointed end shape of a drillbit. Since the material is only 3/16" thick, perhaps they just skipped the drill bit alltogether, made sure the material was secured in a vise, and just cut the hole with a flat ended endmill. all of that can be done on a drillpress, with a vise or other securing jig, as long as your not trying to hold your material steady by hand, as the endmill will jerk the material around since there is no pointed end. Please dont anybody ever try that! it is likely that your hand will be the one with the hole in it. how deep do your m3 holes go thru the 3/16"? also just out of curiosity, aluminum welding requires special equipment and skill. What kind of money did you have to spend to get those endcaps welded on, if you dont mind me asking?
> Thanks for all the interesting reads, I'v had a lot of fun reading your thread!


Not sure how they got the water passages in and if no ones getting wet all the better . Re the welding, it's not that hard to do, my cheap MIG does a good job or you could use a torch and flux, the ultimate would be a TIG for me . Nice setup tyy, is the chiller plugged in yet?


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## ttystikk (Sep 21, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Great ideal re water cooling the led's tyy. I may have to build something myself but would probably try epoxy and copper tubes on aluminum plate (got all that in the barn somewhere lol).
> 
> Not sure how they got the water passages in and if no ones getting wet all the better . Re the welding, it's not that hard to do, my cheap MIG does a good job or you could use a torch and flux, the ultimate would be a TIG for me . Nice setup tyy, is the chiller plugged in yet?


The whole thing has been running for over 6 months.


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## ttystikk (Sep 21, 2016)

Works exactly as designed, too.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Works exactly as designed, too.


That's great, last pic I saw it was still wrapped in plastic so I just assumed . I did actually see the hot water tank, I assume that's doing your domestic hot water?


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## ttystikk (Sep 21, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> That's great, last pic I saw it was still wrapped in plastic so I just assumed . I did actually see the hot water tank, I assume that's doing your domestic hot water?


It passes through my hot water tank, thus warming it without mixing.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It passes through my hot water tank, thus warming it without mixing.


Ya I saw that it was an indirect, good choice .


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## ttystikk (Sep 21, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Ya I saw that it was an indirect, good choice .


It's a 'solar hot water tank with natural gas backup', I just changed the source of heat.


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## febisfebi (Sep 22, 2016)

very nice, @ttystikk I like, I really do. I have always wondered what it would take to get the numbers they test at 25c versus at 85c, or somewhere in between. would be especially good for some of these bigger chips they are starting to make, that are definitiely gonna take some work just to cool normally, let alone being able to get over average performance, like you are.. I finally found that 2400w cob you were talking about a while ago. I couldn't believe it, what a massive fucking cob. 4 hlg600's to run one cob, lol


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## Budley Doright (Sep 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's a 'solar hot water tank with natural gas backup', I just changed the source of heat.


We use the same tanks for our geothermal domestic hot water circuit, and as a storage/buffer tank for heating/cooling loops and yup they work great. The manufacturer we deal with just started to market a air to water unit like yours but with dedicated heating as well, really interesting stuff .


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## ttystikk (Sep 22, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> very nice, @ttystikk I like, I really do. I have always wondered what it would take to get the numbers they test at 25c versus at 85c, or somewhere in between. would be especially good for some of these bigger chips they are starting to make, that are definitiely gonna take some work just to cool normally, let alone being able to get over average performance, like you are.. I finally found that 2400w cob you were talking about a while ago. I couldn't believe it, what a massive fucking cob. 4 hlg600's to run one cob, lol


TEN degrees C; 55F. The temperature droop curve shoes that my chips are running at 60% efficiency where the very same configuration nets air cooled ambient plus setups no more than 55%. This is an efficiency improvement of 10 percent.


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## ttystikk (Sep 22, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> We use the same tanks for our geothermal domestic hot water circuit, and as a storage/buffer tank for heating/cooling loops and yup they work great. The manufacturer we deal with just started to market a air to water unit like yours but with dedicated heating as well, really interesting stuff .


Using water and heat pumps to handle HVAC and domestic hot water is more efficient than current approaches. I believe it will be commonplace in 20 years.

I'm not just looking to improve lighting efficiency for commercial facilities, but their whole energy usage picture. It seems the power utilities are very much on board with my ideas; the rebate programs I've investigated offer big incentives for the large scale implementation of exactly what I'm doing.


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## ttystikk (Sep 22, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> I finally found that 2400w cob you were talking about a while ago. I couldn't believe it, what a massive fucking cob. 4 hlg600's to run one cob, lol


Just imagine how far above the canopy you'd have to mount that monster; thirty feet, maybe more at full power! 

Methinks most folks don't have bays THAT high, lol


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## Budley Doright (Sep 22, 2016)

The utilities are actually doing that here with lighting as well, rebates to switch to LED. Have you found out the cost to get things certified (CSA, UL here) for sale? Our market for geothermal and even air source heat pumps has tanked due to low cost gas. Hard to justify a twenty year payback lol.


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## ttystikk (Sep 22, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> The utilities are actually doing that here with lighting as well, rebates to switch to LED. Have you found out the cost to get things certified (CSA, UL here) for sale? Our market for geothermal and even air source heat pumps has tanked due to low cost gas. Hard to justify a twenty year payback lol.


Yep. Working on getting those certifications as I type these words.


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## febisfebi (Sep 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> TEN degrees C; 55F. The temperature droop curve shoes that my chips are running at 60% efficiency where the very same configuration nets air cooled ambient plus setups no more than 55%. This is an efficiency improvement of 10 percent.


Wow, that is something else. I had no idea. 10% is Huge! you are so far ahead of anyone else I have seen in this hobby/market, in so many ways, its really something, I must say.
Speaking of which, which tank/picture are you guys discussing. I must have missed it. but I am very intersted


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## Budley Doright (Sep 22, 2016)

i do a bit of work with gas authorities here but mostly when shit goes bad and we test appliances to see why they blew up , last fireplace blew the 30' 4" aluminum liner out the chimney like a giant flying silver snake according to the Neighbors lol.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 22, 2016)

Have you figured out the BTU's your pulling out of each plate in the lights?


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## ttystikk (Sep 22, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> Wow, that is something else. I had no idea. 10% is Huge! you are so far ahead of anyone else I have seen in this hobby/market, in so many ways, its really something, I must say.
> Speaking of which, which tank/picture are you guys discussing. I must have missed it. but I am very intersted


Thank you for noticing. Usually I get jackass comments about how it's not worth it to cool the chips that much cuz it costs extra for cooling or some shit... 

And yeah, the lab here is validating a lot of new approaches to indoor cultivation. Some work better than others, but I've got some real doozies in the pipeline.

Here's the pic of the tanks in the bottom of my chiller;


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## ttystikk (Sep 22, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> i do a bit of work with gas authorities here but mostly when shit goes bad and we test appliances to see why they blew up , last fireplace blew the 30' 4" aluminum liner out the chimney like a giant flying silver snake according to the Neighbors lol.


 That would suck for Santa! 



Budley Doright said:


> Have you figured out the BTU's your pulling out of each plate in the lights?


Not quite sure what you're asking here? I'm pulling all the heat radiated backwards thru the chip.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 22, 2016)

Just wondering if you know the rate at which the heat is removed re BTU's so GPM x temp rise x 500 would give you the heat in btu's that your removing.


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## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Just wondering if you know the rate at which the heat is removed re BTU's so GPM x temp rise x 500 would give you the heat in btu's that your removing.


The monkey wrench in that approach is the heat soaked up by the plants via transpiration. 

Therefore, one has to resort to a thermal calculation of each type of heat source and multiply by the number of them. In my case, the vast majority of those are COB LED chips. I haven't run those numbers. 

What I can tell you is that the chiller can keep up with much more heat than one would expect from AC, and the water cooled air handlers it services perform double duty as water condensers themselves. 

As far as heat from the chips, the light modules are actually cold to the touch. They're cold enough to condense water from the environment.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 23, 2016)

It would be helpful to know the HE (heat of extraction) from your different heat sinks if you were actually trying to market this on a big scale for big growers IMO, also great for sizing equipment. Room ambient would affect it but on a linear scale so it could be a base line for different heat sink designs as well, just thinking out loud here . I also am wondering if a finned heat sink with copper or probably coopernickle fin cooling would be easier to manufacture with the same or perhaps better transfer? Cool stuff tyy.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The monkey wrench in that approach is the heat soaked up by the plants via transpiration.
> 
> Therefore, one has to resort to a thermal calculation of each type of heat source and multiply by the number of them. In my case, the vast majority of those are COB LED chips. I haven't run those numbers.
> 
> ...


The condensing is probably not desirable but easily over come. And yup depending on dew point it probably happens quite a lot. Your heat sinks would be better served removing the sensible heat from the lights and not latent heat from the room, through condensing. Leave that to fan coils that are better suited. I really need to figure the LED shit out, I'm getting more confused the more I read lol. By keeping the lights cool, really cool, is it possible to over drive beyond their rating and achieve higher effencies or would they still burnout? If I'm rambling sorry, just smoked a big fatty of master kush .


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## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> It would be helpful to know the HE (heat of extraction) from your different heat sinks if you were actually trying to market this on a big scale for big growers IMO, also great for sizing equipment. Room ambient would affect it but on a linear scale so it could be a base line for different heat sink designs as well, just thinking out loud here . I also am wondering if a finned heat sink with copper or probably coopernickle fin cooling would be easier to manufacture with the same or perhaps better transfer? Cool stuff tyy.


Aluminum pin heat sinks are much cheaper and entirely up to the job.

You've made an excellent point, I'll have to have that done.


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## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> The condensing is probably not desirable but easily over come. And yup depending on dew point it probably happens quite a lot. Your heat sinks would be better served removing the sensible heat from the lights and not latent heat from the room, through condensing. Leave that to fan coils that are better suited. I really need to figure the LED shit out, I'm getting more confused the more I read lol. By keeping the lights cool, really cool, is it possible to over drive beyond their rating and achieve higher effencies or would they still burnout? If I'm rambling sorry, just smoked a big fatty of master kush .


Both efficiency AND forward voltage rise as chips get colder. 

My heat sinks are doing their intended job of removing heat before it has a chance to impact the room. They're doing it very well, indeed.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you for noticing. Usually I get jackass comments about how it's not worth it to cool the chips that much cuz it costs extra for cooling or some shit...
> 
> And yeah, the lab here is validating a lot of new approaches to indoor cultivation. Some work better than others, but I've got some real doozies in the pipeline.
> 
> ...


Nice! I can tell that it's engineered well, they left room to work on it lol. Most jam shit in on top shit .


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## febisfebi (Sep 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Just imagine how far above the canopy you'd have to mount that monster; thirty feet, maybe more at full power!
> 
> Methinks most folks don't have bays THAT high, lol


Yeah I think they probably meant for it to light football fields and such, lol.
But still, imagine a warehouse grow with ceilings as high as you need, and one of those every 30 feet or so in each direction. But still probably better for football fields. 80 lpw is not going to cut it in this industry once COB led is fully adopted. 
I'm guessing the (if only slightly) smaller cob's will take on the job at higher efficiency, and for cheaper no doubt.


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> Yeah I think they probably meant for it to light football fields and such, lol.
> But still, imagine a warehouse grow with ceilings as high as you need, and one of those every 30 feet or so in each direction. But still probably better for football fields. 80 lpw is not going to cut it in this industry once COB led is fully adopted.
> I'm guessing the (if only slightly) smaller cob's will take on the job at higher efficiency, and for cheaper no doubt.


More light sources mean better distribution and that's always a big plus.


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## febisfebi (Sep 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> More light sources mean better distribution and that's always a big plus.


Always.


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## texasjack (Sep 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Tin work by my HVAC guy, building my dual core water to forced air HVAC system. One heat exchange core is for hot water to heat my house, the other is for cold with which to cool.
> 
> It will run on the same system with growroom HVAC, and thus operating costs will be shared and often eliminated altogether.


I reremember talking to you about this. Good stuff.


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2016)

texasjack said:


> I reremember talking to you about this. Good stuff.


He needs to hurry up and get it done, too. Winter is coming!


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## a mongo frog (Sep 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> He needs to hurry up and get it done, too. Winter is coming!


Will it snow at your house?


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Will it snow at your house?


I'm in Colorado. It snows in all areas of the state. I'm near Wyoming, so it snows more here but I'm not in the mountains, where it can snow feet regularly. 

The global warming factor is that when I was a kid, it was colder here. Nowadays it's more like the northern New Mexico of my childhood. That's pretty significant in just one lifetime.


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## a mongo frog (Sep 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm in Colorado. It snows in all areas of the state. I'm near Wyoming, so it snows more here but I'm not in the mountains, where it can snow feet regularly.
> 
> The global warming factor is that when I was a kid, it was colder here. Nowadays it's more like the northern New Mexico of my childhood. That's pretty significant in just one lifetime.


Do you have a fire place, or do people do fire places there? Dumb question i guess, just wondering.


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Do you have a fire place, or do people do fire places there? Dumb question i guess, just wondering.


Actually, an intriguing one; you see, fireplaces used to be very desirable for home heating, until the advent of cheap natural gas extraction. Now there is much more pollution from the influx of people, leading to a ban on traditional fireplaces in new construction! Gas fireplaces are fine because they don't emit particulate pollution, so they've become the fireplace of choice.

The fireplace in my home is really not constructed very well at all and will actually draw more heat out of the house than it adds! If the damper worked better it would be different, but there isn't much point. I have plenty of free waste heat being captured by my HVAC system and that's all but free.


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## a mongo frog (Sep 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Actually, an intriguing one; you see, fireplaces used to be very desirable for home heating, until the advent of cheap natural gas extraction. Now there is much more pollution from the influx of people, leading to a ban on traditional fireplaces in new construction! Gas fireplaces are fine because they don't emit particulate pollution, so they've become the fireplace of choice.
> 
> The fireplace in my home is really not constructed very well at all and will actually draw more heat out of the house than it adds! If the damper worked better it would be different, but there isn't much point. I have plenty of free waste heat being captured by my HVAC system and that's all but free.


Yea here too. They have these spare the air days. Where no one can burn. Is your waste heat from the garden?


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Yea here too. They have these spare the air days. Where no one can burn. Is your waste heat from the garden?


Yeah... 'waste heat', lol 

What a fuckin misnomer, lol

Imagine the energy I'm saving by merely reusing mine.


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2016)

@a mongo frog think of it like this; 

Heat is heat, the only way to waste it is to let it go underutilized and buy more from the utility.

My dual circuit chiller pushes heat up the temperature gradient, allowing me to more easily put it to use.

Two bites at the apple. In engineering terms, free lunch.


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## a mongo frog (Sep 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @a mongo frog think of it like this;
> 
> Heat is heat, the only way to waste it is to let it go underutilized and buy more from the utility.
> 
> ...


And all this should keep you warm enough? No gas or electrical heaters? No sluts needed to keep warm?


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> And all this should keep you warm enough? No gas or electrical heaters? No sluts needed to keep warm?


I'm a slut so the more sluts, the merrier!

Now that's out of the way, I have up to 7.5 Tons of heat to use for home heating, domestic hot water, nighttime grow room heat, round the clock dehuey, plus more for garage heat, hot tub maintenance heat, patio heat... I might even put in a driveway heating circuit so I never have to shovel. 

Gonna see just how much heat I can use from this fucker lol

For comparison's sake, I've used the 3 Tons of heat from the window banger for years and it was more than adequate to heat my whole house.


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## febisfebi (Sep 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm a slut so the more sluts, the merrier!
> 
> Now that's out of the way, I have up to 7.5 Tons of heat to use for home heating, domestic hot water, nighttime grow room heat, round the clock dehuey, plus more for garage heat, hot tub maintenance heat, patio heat... I might even put in a driveway heating circuit so I never have to shovel.
> 
> ...


how much did you spend on that chiller, and where can I get one, lol


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## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> how much did you spend on that chiller, and where can I get one, lol


It's a ChillKing 5 Ton chiller with hot gas recovery. They're in Bastrop, TX. Give 'em a call, tell 'em I sent y'all!

EDIT: Yes, they know who ttystikk is lol


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## febisfebi (Sep 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @a mongo frog think of it like this;
> 
> Heat is heat, the only way to waste it is to let it go underutilized and buy more from the utility.
> 
> ...


when you say dual circuit, I'm guessing that has to do with one cold water circuit, one hot to use for heating/domestic hot water, on single phase 230v circuit, not two electrical circuits, right?. On their website they do not list anything about hot gas recovery, is that something you have to special order?


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## ttystikk (Sep 28, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> when you say dual circuit, I'm guessing that has to do with one cold water circuit, one hot to use for heating/domestic hot water, on single phase 230v circuit, not two electrical circuits, right?. On their website they do not list anything about hot gas recovery, is that something you have to special order?


Dual circuits of water; one cold and one hot. 

You can call them and they'll be happy to discuss it.


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## febisfebi (Sep 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dual circuits of water; one cold and one hot.
> 
> You can call them and they'll be happy to discuss it.


I'll do my best to find some time tomorrrow to discuss all this with them. Just out of curiosity though, how much does this unit cost you to run with your application? It appears to use about 9660w according to the specs on their site, but I can't imagine you are running it at full power 24/7


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## ttystikk (Sep 28, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> I'll do my best to find some time tomorrrow to discuss all this with them. Just out of curiosity though, how much does this unit cost you to run with your application? It appears to use about 9660w according to the specs on their site, but I can't imagine you are running it at full power 24/7


I've no idea how you calculated that but it certainly does not use that much electricity.

It runs until the water in the cold circuit has reached the setpoint, then it shuts down until it has climbed the rise programed into the thermostat. In this way it provides continuous cooling (and heating) whether it's actually running or not. Thus it tailors its output to the actual load, automatically.

It uses about a third less power to cool than conventional AC- and the heat it provides is basically free, since it's recovered from the cooling circuit rather than being generated anew.

The efficiency boost provided thereby is significant and almost universally unrecognized.


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## febisfebi (Sep 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I've no idea how you calculated that but it certainly does not use that much electricity.
> 
> It runs until the water in the cold circuit has reached the setpoint, then it shuts down until it has climbed the rise programed into the thermostat. In this way it provides continuous cooling (and heating) whether it's actually running or not. Thus it tailors its output to the actual load, automatically.
> 
> It uses about a third less power to cool than conventional AC- and the heat it provides is basically free, since it's recovered from the cooling circuit rather than being generated anew.


I figured it worked something like that. I got that number from 230v at 42A, which according to their site for the 5 ton, is the "Min Circuit Ampacity"

I was just wondering if you noticed how much your power bill went up when the chiller was first installed.


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## ttystikk (Sep 28, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> I figured it worked something like that. I got that number from 230v at 42A, which according to their site for the 5 ton, is the "Min Circuit Ampacity"
> 
> I was just wondering if you noticed how much your power bill went up when the chiller was first installed.


It went DOWN, LOL

That's the startup amperage from the compressor, which is fed by a capacitor so it doesn't draw so much and trip breakers. I think it runs at about 16A @240V. Not too bad for 60k BTu. And the heat bonus...


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## febisfebi (Sep 28, 2016)

No, not bad at all. is that an avererage, or constant number? or it it only when the compressor gets flipped on?


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## febisfebi (Sep 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It went DOWN, LOL
> 
> That's the startup amperage from the compressor, which is fed by a capacitor so it doesn't draw so much and trip breakers. I think it runs at about 16A @240V. Not too bad for 60k BTu. And the heat bonus...


Down, huh? is that because of a less efficient chiller you replaced, or no more heating bills, (which I thought were natural gas, but I could be wrong) or perhaps from increased lighting efficiency? There has got to be some variable here I am missing, lol 
But nonetheless very impressive!


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## ttystikk (Sep 28, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> Down, huh? is that because of a less efficient chiller you replaced, or no more heating bills, (which I thought were natural gas, but I could be wrong) or perhaps from increased lighting efficiency? There has got to be some variable here I am missing, lol
> But nonetheless very impressive!


I replaced two 2 Ton chillers of the same brand with the one bigger unit. Is more efficient than they were, even before the heat bonus. 

If you go back through this thread, you'll see that I've been heating my home with 'waste' heat from chillers for some 4 winters now. 

Lighting efficiency improvements are separate, I didn't count them.


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## ttystikk (Sep 28, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> No, not bad at all. is that an avererage, or constant number? or it it only when the compressor gets flipped on?


That's the amp draw when the compressor is running. When it isn't, it's drawing only enough for the circulation pump.


----------



## febisfebi (Sep 28, 2016)

How is it that you need 60k btu of water chilling? that seems like a lot. was that out of neccessity, or more to reduce the load on the chiller?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 28, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> How is it that you need 60k btu of water chilling? that seems like a lot. was that out of neccessity, or more to reduce the load on the chiller?


Not really a lot, given that in the summer part of one's heat load is created by hot environmental conditions.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 1, 2016)

On the advice of @RM3, @Afgan King and others, I've brought my grow room temperatures down from around 80 to about 73- 75 F, dropping RH as well.


----------



## zep_lover (Oct 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> On the advice of @RM3, @Afgan King and others, I've brought my grow room temperatures down from around 80 to about 73- 75 F, dropping RH as well.


and what do you think so far?where are you keeping rh now and before?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 1, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> and what do you think so far?where are you keeping rh now and before?


It's only been the day so I don't have a lot to discuss just yet. I'm trying to push RH down, jury is still out on the effectiveness of that as well.


----------



## Afgan King (Oct 1, 2016)

zep_lover said:


> and what do you think so far?where are you keeping rh now and before?


Push it rh 35% day 45% night


----------



## Stephenj37826 (Oct 1, 2016)

I really like looking at a Vapor Pressure Deficit chart.


ttystikk said:


> On the advice of @RM3, @Afgan King and others, I've brought my grow room temperatures down from around 80 to about 73- 75 F, dropping RH as well.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 1, 2016)

Stephenj37826 said:


> I really like looking at a Vapor Pressure Deficit chart.


Except that we aren't growing vegetable matter like kale as much as we want to maximize resin production and this is apparently encouraged by lower RH.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Oct 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Except that we aren't growing vegetable matter like kale as much as we want to maximize resin production and this is apparently encouraged by lower RH.


I prefer lower rh myself.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 1, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I prefer lower rh myself.


I ran higher RH for a long time, I'm looking to see what lower RH does.


----------



## Afgan King (Oct 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I ran higher RH for a long time, I'm looking to see what lower RH does.


Extra resin  faster tighter bud growth


----------



## a mongo frog (Oct 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I ran higher RH for a long time, I'm looking to see what lower RH does.


Even while still enriching right? Temps down too? Fuck you guys keep changing the play book......... Ok Im going to try it also...........


----------



## Afgan King (Oct 1, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Even while still enriching right? Temps down too? Fuck you guys keep changing the play book......... Ok Im going to try it also...........


Yup I push 12-1300 at 71° room and 75° canopy @ttystikk saw how rock hard and resinous it makes the buds. It's pretty intense honestly how much they thrive and same company I worked for runs that in veg and flower enriching in both and slaying shit non stop lol trust me it's a beautiful thing when you get the cooler temps then drop humidity honestly what it reminds me of is Colorado fall weather and they love this shit they talk about how the fruits grown here are better due to cold nights and somewhat warm days never getting too hot or humid tho. Wait till u feel your density at those temps lol


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 2, 2016)

Come a lil closer and feel my density...


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Come a lil closer and feel my density...


LMAO dense fucker you


----------



## Stephenj37826 (Oct 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Except that we aren't growing vegetable matter like kale as much as we want to maximize resin production and this is apparently encouraged by lower RH.



Yep I always recommend dropping RH the last couple of weeks. It really does make the plant respond with a self defense mechanism. The Rev had recommend this technique for a while. It works wonderfully. I think it really comes down to knowing what you are doing. Using synthetic nutrients gives us the ability to adjust nutrient concentration and therefore compensate for the more rapid evaporation happening at the leaf without over feeding. Also to consider is during the growth and bulking stages our goal should be maximum stomal opening. If one has absolute control of RH I for one would think a gradual decline after week 4 of flower on most varieties would be very beneficial. I can say from personal observations that 60% humidity wth a temp of 80f gave me the fastest rate of growth during late VEG and "The Stretch". I kept it hovering in that area until 75-80% of the bulking was finished and then dropped rh the last 2 weeks during flush. This was my personal record breaking run.


----------



## Afgan King (Oct 2, 2016)

Stephenj37826 said:


> Yep I always recommend dropping RH the last couple of weeks. It really does make the plant respond with a self defense mechanism. The Rev had recommend this technique for a while. It works wonderfully. I think it really comes down to knowing what you are doing. Using synthetic nutrients gives us the ability to adjust nutrient concentration and therefore compensate for the more rapid evaporation happening at the leaf without over feeding. Also to consider is during the growth and bulking stages our goal should be maximum stomal opening. If one has absolute control of RH I for one would think a gradual decline after week 4 of flower on most varieties would be very beneficial. I can say from personal observations that 60% humidity wth a temp of 80f gave me the fastest rate of growth during late VEG and "The Stretch". I kept it hovering in that area until 75-80% of the bulking was finished and then dropped rh the last 2 weeks during flush. This was my personal record breaking run.


Run low rh their whole life watch them go nuts


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 2, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Run low rh their whole life watch them go nuts


We'll put this to the test.


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 2, 2016)

I like lower rh the later the flowering is


Stephenj37826 said:


> Yep I always recommend dropping RH the last couple of weeks. It really does make the plant respond with a self defense mechanism. The Rev had recommend this technique for a while. It works wonderfully. I think it really comes down to knowing what you are doing. Using synthetic nutrients gives us the ability to adjust nutrient concentration and therefore compensate for the more rapid evaporation happening at the leaf without over feeding. Also to consider is during the growth and bulking stages our goal should be maximum stomal opening. If one has absolute control of RH I for one would think a gradual decline after week 4 of flower on most varieties would be very beneficial. I can say from personal observations that 60% humidity wth a temp of 80f gave me the fastest rate of growth during late VEG and "The Stretch". I kept it hovering in that area until 75-80% of the bulking was finished and then dropped rh the last 2 weeks during flush. This was my personal record breaking run.


I be doing that ATM in GH brought the temp swing tighter as well


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Oct 2, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Run low rh their whole life watch them go nuts


I run perpetual rooms so I have to compromise now but most of my plants grow better with a 50% to 60% humidity. I don't like it higher but they still seem to. But I fully agree if you can reduce it in flower there are benefits. In trich production and mold reduction.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 2, 2016)

Hard at work today- Sunday though it might be, makes little difference- rebuilding my prebloom veg. Reorganizing, getting ahead on the training and adding more watts to make sure they fill up their space on time.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Oct 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Come a lil closer and feel my density...


Lol.


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 2, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> I run perpetual rooms so I have to compromise now but most of my plants grow better with a 50% to 60% humidity. I don't like it higher but they still seem to. But I fully agree if you can reduce it in flower there are benefits. In trich production and mold reduction.


I'm running heat & cooling today in the GH it's raining 1st since April to keep rh down


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 2, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> I'm running heat & cooling today in the GH it's raining 1st since April to keep rh down


And that's how dehuey is done, Sir!


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> And that's how dehuey is done, Sir!


2 huge Alien Tarantula are 100% cloudy just waiting on sum color found sum brot on drip area


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 2, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> 2 huge Alien Tarantula are 100% cloudy just waiting on sum color found sum brot on drip area


Cut that shit out asap, AFTER you spray with dilute h2o2 to keep it from spreading.


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 2, 2016)

It's gone I check every few hours , it was a roof drip that seeped into the heart lost about 3 inches x 3
Moved it over to finish where no drips are 100 cloudy % on heads look at IG for pix of the beast
Post sum pix here if ok
She's about 10' with the pot


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 2, 2016)




----------



## febisfebi (Oct 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Not really a lot, given that in the summer part of one's heat load is created by hot environmental conditions.


I suppose that depends on your footprint and more importantly how many watts your running, in that footprint.



Afgan King said:


> Yup I push 12-1300 at 71° room and 75° canopy @ttystikk saw how rock hard and resinous it makes the buds. It's pretty intense honestly how much they thrive and same company I worked for runs that in veg and flower enriching in both and slaying shit non stop lol trust me it's a beautiful thing when you get the cooler temps then drop humidity honestly what it reminds me of is Colorado fall weather and they love this shit they talk about how the fruits grown here are better due to cold nights and somewhat warm days never getting too hot or humid tho. Wait till u feel your density at those temps lol


I thought you were supposed to run higher temps when enriching, according to what people have always said in my experience, but people are not always right. Even in large groups.
71-75 isnt drastic, but i'v always heard 5-10 higher than that. Perhaps its more just that enriching allows for the higher temps, and since people love their big hot hps lights, it seems to have become the norm. 
I'm glad you guys on here are informed enough to know better
edit:
eg: http://rollitup.org/t/sealed-room-air-exchange-question.922117/page-2#post-13004564


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 2, 2016)

How about this; a 'Silicon Valley for agriculture' in Denmark, supporting research into 'vertical farm prototypes', among other innovations;

http://weburbanist.com/2016/10/02/urban-food-park-scandinavias-growing-silicon-valley-for-agriculture/

Sustainability, efficiency, use of space...

Yeah, I just knew I was barking up the wrong tree all this time.


----------



## febisfebi (Oct 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> How about this; a 'Silicon Valley for agriculture' in Denmark, supporting research into 'vertical farm prototypes', among other innovations;
> 
> http://weburbanist.com/2016/10/02/urban-food-park-scandinavias-growing-silicon-valley-for-agriculture/
> 
> ...


I like the "vertical city farming"
http://weburbanist.com/2014/12/11/vertical-city-farming-undulating-mixed-use-urban-community/


----------



## febisfebi (Oct 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> How about this; a 'Silicon Valley for agriculture' in Denmark, supporting research into 'vertical farm prototypes', among other innovations;
> 
> http://weburbanist.com/2016/10/02/urban-food-park-scandinavias-growing-silicon-valley-for-agriculture/
> 
> ...


The wrong tree, huh. Something about that phrase doesn't seem quite right


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> How about this; a 'Silicon Valley for agriculture' in Denmark, supporting research into 'vertical farm prototypes', among other innovations;
> 
> http://weburbanist.com/2016/10/02/urban-food-park-scandinavias-growing-silicon-valley-for-agriculture/
> 
> ...


I love Denmark. Spent alot of time over there working for a Danish company for almost 10 yrs


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 3, 2016)

@dbkick those badass ballasts do run an 860W CDM Allstart lamp like nobody's business. I just put two of them in my prebloom veg along with three 315W CMH lights and the resulting almost 3000W will definitely improve some growth rates!


----------



## dbkick (Oct 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @dbkick those badass ballasts do run an 860W CDM Allstart lamp like nobody's business. I just put two of them in my prebloom veg along with three 315W CMH lights and the resulting almost 3000W will definitely improve some growth rates!


I'm actually trying to decide if I want to run the platinum and allstart or solis mh de stuff between two SS lec this next cycle.


----------



## febisfebi (Oct 4, 2016)

dbkick said:


> I'm actually trying to decide if I want to run the platinum and allstart or solis mh de stuff between two SS lec this next cycle.


I would take the philips over solis even if the solis was free, lol. unfortunately they dont make a de, but their allstarts with a proper square wave ballast are gonna run better anyways and be similar in price if not way cheaper, depending on ballast source and type of course. I'm sure @ttystikk can help you out with the best ballast to use for whichever allstart are thinking about. Keep in mind too, if you dont mind burning a few extra hundred watts, an 860 allstart can run on a 1kw mag ballast which most of us have lying around, and those that dont can get one for under $50


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> I would take the philips over solis even if the solis was free, lol. unfortunately they dont make a de, but their allstarts with a proper square wave ballast are gonna run better anyways and be similar in price if not way cheaper, depending on ballast source and type of course. I'm sure @ttystikk can help you out with the best ballast to use for whichever allstart are thinking about. Keep in mind too, if you dont mind burning a few extra hundred watts, an 860 allstart can run on a 1kw mag ballast which most of us have lying around, and those that dont can get one for under $50


860W CDM Allstart lamps must be run in a vertical orientation, and running them on magnetic ballast is very inefficient compared to LFSW drivers. Yes, they're cheap, but you're getting what you pay for. Thousand watt LFSW ballasts do exist, but they are hard to find. 

Philips 315W CMH lights on Philips LFSW ballasts are my personal choice and recommendation for performance, efficiency and superior light distribution.


----------



## febisfebi (Oct 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> 860W CDM Allstart lamps must be run in a vertical orientation, and running them on magnetic ballast is very inefficient compared to LFSW drivers. Yes, they're cheap, but you're getting what you pay for. Thousand watt LFSW ballasts do exist, but they are hard to find.
> 
> Philips 315W CMH lights on Philips LFSW ballasts are my personal choice and recommendation for performance, efficiency and superior light distribution.


like i said, if you dont mind burning an few extra *Hundred* watts, lol


----------



## dbkick (Oct 4, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> I would take the philips over solis even if the solis was free, lol. unfortunately they dont make a de, but their allstarts with a proper square wave ballast are gonna run better anyways and be similar in price if not way cheaper, depending on ballast source and type of course. I'm sure @ttystikk can help you out with the best ballast to use for whichever allstart are thinking about. Keep in mind too, if you dont mind burning a few extra hundred watts, an 860 allstart can run on a 1kw mag ballast which most of us have lying around, and those that dont can get one for under $50


Actually ask tty where he got those baddass! Sunplix and hortilux platinum are two choices but I wouldn't recommend the sunplix until proven, 
Throttled for calling for order and defending myself while the rule breakers went untouched. Admin needs work. See you later.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

On my way back from Colorado Springs. I paid right about a dollar a pound for over 400 lbs of dry nutes. It will last me for SEVERAL YEARS, LOL

Try that at the hydro shop lmao

Hydro-gardens.com great bunch of people, highly knowledgeable.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

dbkick said:


> Actually ask tty where he got those baddass! Sunplix and hortilux platinum are two choices but I wouldn't recommend the sunplix until proven,
> Throttled for calling for order and defending myself while the rule breakers went untouched. Admin needs work. See you later.


Sorry to hear that, bro. 

Yep, got my badass ballasts from this badass right here!


----------



## febisfebi (Oct 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> On my way back from Colorado Springs. I paid right about a dollar a pound for over 400 lbs of dry nutes. It will last me for SEVERAL YEARS, LOL
> 
> Try that at the hydro shop lmao
> 
> Hydro-gardens.com great bunch of people, highly knowledgeable.


Which formula are/have you been using? they seem to have a hobby formula, cucumber formula, hydroponic special, lettuce, pepper/herb, southern vegetable, tomato, strawberry, etc. I assume you are running one of those in their chem-gro line since you mention dry nutes.
Also do you use them primarily cause of cost, or performance, or both? You seem to be doing pretty well with them. have you tested them against any other lines out there?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 4, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> tested them against any other lines out there?


all nutrient lines use the same chemicals......just a different name stamped on it


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> all nutrient lines use the same chemicals......just a different name stamped on it


Yep. Same 26 nutrients.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

febisfebi said:


> Which formula are/have you been using? they seem to have a hobby formula, cucumber formula, hydroponic special, lettuce, pepper/herb, southern vegetable, tomato, strawberry, etc. I assume you are running one of those in their chem-gro line since you mention dry nutes.
> Also do you use them primarily cause of cost, or performance, or both? You seem to be doing pretty well with them. have you tested them against any other lines out there?


I use the hydroponic special along with calcium nitrate, a bit of epsom salt, MKP for bloom and I picked up a bit of potassium sulfate this time as an S supplement. 

I've tested vs Anal Nutrients and Canna and the dry nutes are just as good or better, for a tiny fraction of the price.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 5, 2016)

LMAO that anal line eh.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> LMAO that anal line eh.


One of the principals of Advanced Nutrients was indicted several years ago for sodomising a 12 year old girl. I can't make this stuff up.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 5, 2016)

FFS, is that the owner?


----------



## schuylaar (Oct 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> You taking them out of the water & into a paper towel once they sink eh?


If you just leave them in the water they will pop with a nice tail..the idea is the take on water, will sink, then crack..you just don't want to leave them too long or they can drown.

Doing paper towel is over kill; one method or the other.

Although you could do both and I've done it myself; there is nothing to gain other than handling the seed way too much.


----------



## pinner420 (Oct 5, 2016)

Take a peek at this vertical prodigy my vertical brothers! 
http://artgardengrowingsystems.com


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Take a peek at this vertical prodigy my vertical brothers!
> http://artgardengrowingsystems.com


Very expensive, not terribly space efficient, suitable for outdoor locations only. It's a first generation setup. 

My racks kill those tubby buckets lol


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

Gratuitous chop day shots;


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Gratuitous chop day shots;
> View attachment 3797569 View attachment 3797570 View attachment 3797573


Walls of weed, fukn love it


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Walls of weed, fukn love it


Everyone should have a specialty; wicked wide walls of weedy wonderment is mine!


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 5, 2016)

what strain(s)?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> what strain(s)?


The stupid fat donkey dicks in the corner belong to a Super Lemon Haze, don't remember the rest.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> wicked wide walls of weedy wonderment


Fits you well


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Super Lemon Haze


that was one i was looking at doing. who was the breeder? i was looking at either greenhouse seeds or ethos collection (from right here in CO)


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 5, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> that was one i was looking at doing. who was the breeder? i was looking at either greenhouse seeds or ethos collection (from right here in CO)


GHS sucks, try that Colo bred one imo


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> GHS sucks, try that Colo bred one imo


i had heard good and bad about GHS. thanks for leading me away from them!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 5, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> i had heard good and bad about GHS. thanks for leading me away from them!


I bought them in my early days of growing and though I was a newbie everything else was practically growing itself except for their shit, which didnt even like to germinate. Yeah that one time was enough to burn me on them


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 5, 2016)

And now there is way too much connoisseur stuff out there compared to them


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> that was one i was looking at doing. who was the breeder? i was looking at either greenhouse seeds or ethos collection (from right here in CO)


All I know is that it's said to be the very cut that won Colorado's inaugural Cannabis Cup.

If you'd like a cut, PM me and I can help you source it.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If you'd like a cut, PM me and I can help you source it.


appreciate it! maybe next time i'm headed to Denver or points north, i'll give you a shout.

not too big on 4+hrs roundtrip for some clones but if i'm already gonna be up there....

and ethos collective does lemon og haze which is a cross of super lemon haze with ethos OG. so many strains, so little time


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> appreciate it! maybe next time i'm headed to Denver or points north, i'll give you a shout.
> 
> not too big on 4+hrs roundtrip for some clones but if i'm already gonna be up there....
> 
> and ethos collective does lemon og haze which is a cross of super lemon haze with ethos OG. so many strains, so little time


I was in the Springs yesterday, got me some nutes. Wish I'd have known...


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I was in the Springs yesterday, got me some nutes. Wish I'd have known...


i'm still an hour from there and m-w i'm the school taxi so it would have been hard to get down there. 

were you down for the monthly meeting at Focus on the Family?? lol


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Oct 5, 2016)

@ttystikk 

I know this is answered all over the place but it's a lot to dig through you content generating genius you 

How close are your COBs and what kind of wattage are you running per cob? I know you're using the 72v version. Just curious on distance vs wattage. 

Also are you using lenses or reflectors?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> i'm still an hour from there and m-w i'm the school taxi so it would have been hard to get down there.
> 
> were you down for the monthly meeting at Focus on the Family?? lol


Only to paint a target on their back, Sarah Palin style.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

Jp.the.pope said:


> @ttystikk
> 
> I know this is answered all over the place but it's a lot to dig through you content generating genius you
> 
> ...


No worries! Volts really only matter when you're trying to size by mA, or milliamps. I'm running four Cree CXB3590 3500K 72V CD bin chips per Meanwell HLG-185H-C700B driver. 

That means 50W per chip- but wait, there's more!- because I chose the B version and run the dimming leads capped off, I get an extra 8% for 54W per chip, 216W total. The driver takes 8, for the from the wall observed total of 224-225W. Twenty four of these modules make up my run, for total a of 5400W.

I'm using KingBrite glass lenses, 80 degrees. As you can see from the pics, I paired up the chips at each end of the module, this so I get an optimal light distribution pattern when I mount them in the array. 

I built my lights to throw as far as 30" and for the pattern between chips and modules to overlap as close as 18". Because of the size of the array, the former number only really matters at the edges. 

...and heat matters, too; efficient fan cooled sinks will help the chips run noticeably more efficiently than a fully passive setup with marginally small heatsinks. My cold water chilled modules are actively cooled to about 55F, allowing them to run roughly 10% more efficiently than heat sink to ambient air designs. 

Yeah, I'm a lil proud of that, lol


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No worries! Volts really only matter when you're trying to size by mA, or milliamps. I'm running four Cree CXB3590 3500K 72V CD bin chips per Meanwell HLG-185H-C700B driver.
> 
> That means 50W per chip- but wait, there's more!- because I chose the B version and run the dimming leads capped off, I get an extra 8% for 54W per chip, 216W total. The driver takes 8, for the from the wall observed total of 224-225W. Twenty four of these modules make up my run, for total a of 5400W.
> 
> ...


I knew most of that just couldn't remember the current. I'm upping mine from 700ma to 1750 with the 36v cobs.

Was converting based on current 

Running them bare with passive sinks and fans to try to coax that last 10%ish increase from the cool junction temp. Super jealous of your chiller.

Was hoping to try to scrog up the wall in my new room like you have to maximize space, but wasn't sure if I was ballpark wattage wise. Especially taking optics into consideration.


You rock, thanks for the reply


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

If you run 35W/sq ft of COB LED or more, you're going to do just fine. It doesn't matter if it's vertical or not, calc is the same. The more efficiently you run those chips, such as cooling them well and/or running them very softly, the better.


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Oct 5, 2016)

I'm looking at 65+ w/Sq foot in 2Ds.

Was debating angling the heatsinks (aluminum hsusa versions) at like a 45 degree angle to the wall, so I can go up the wall too instead of a more flatlander scrog. 

Just playing with possibilities really


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

Jp.the.pope said:


> I'm looking at 65+ w/Sq foot in 2Ds.
> 
> Was debating angling the heatsinks (aluminum hsusa versions) at like a 45 degree angle to the wall, so I can go up the wall too instead of a more flatlander scrog.
> 
> Just playing with possibilities really


That's kinda overkill. Remember that LED is more efficient, not less. This you need less W/sq ft. Trust me on this.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

I've dreamt of this for a long time and tonight it happened.


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I've dreamt of this for a long time and tonight it happened.


 u got wood ?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

The hot side of my dual circuit chilling system is up and running, heating my home and my domestic hot water.

I'm recycling waste heat from my op and using it to replace heat I would otherwise have to buy from the utility.

This isn't quite the same thing as true cogeneration, because I'm not generating my own power. That said, I AM taking energy I'd otherwise be shedding into the atmosphere and reusing it, and in the process saving money.

This is no longer a dream or a plan. Tonight, it's a toasty warm reality.

I'm totally geekin' out about it.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> u got wood ?


And I got wood.


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> And I got wood.


----------



## sixstring2112 (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I've dreamt of this for a long time and tonight it happened.


you finally got laid ?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> you finally got laid ?


I got wood. 

And free heat. 

I'm so happy I could rub one out.


----------



## pinner420 (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Very expensive, not terribly space efficient, suitable for outdoor locations only. It's a first generation setup.
> 
> My racks kill those tubby buckets lol


I'm gonna build it.. a grip is high. Looks like less work than the zip towers though. I think I'll put it on a potters wheel for rotation then it would be perfect. Inverse of volksgarden ja!


----------



## pinner420 (Oct 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> All I know is that it's said to be the very cut that won Colorado's inaugural Cannabis Cup.
> 
> If you'd like a cut, PM me and I can help you source it.


May have to come skiing and taste the love.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 8, 2016)

Super Lemon Haze;


----------



## BobBitchen (Oct 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Super Lemon Haze;
> View attachment 3800029 View attachment 3800030


B00M....


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 8, 2016)

Dive Bombing Buds 


Ya did good grasshopper


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 8, 2016)

come on to the Emerald Cup in Sonoma 
all this vid is shot @ last years E Cup


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 8, 2016)

I think the Tupur is gonna work out juuuuuuust fine...


----------



## MildGro (Oct 8, 2016)

That's fantastic.


----------



## a mongo frog (Oct 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I think the Tupur is gonna work out juuuuuuust fine...


Are you doing drain to waste?


----------



## Frajola (Oct 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Super Lemon Haze;
> View attachment 3800029 View attachment 3800030


Great growth, again.
is that soil?
I got a Super Lemon Haze too, for my first ever vert,lol.


----------



## pinner420 (Oct 9, 2016)

Just finished construction of my tupur trailer! Here we go.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Just finished construction of my tupur trailer! Here we go.


Uh oh, it's on now!


----------



## Organic Miner (Oct 9, 2016)

Woowho, just caught up on the entire thread! Great stuff @ttystikk! Now, I want a water cooled grow room.


----------



## MildGro (Oct 9, 2016)

Organic Miner said:


> Woowho, just caught up on the entire thread! Great stuff @ttystikk! Now, I want a water cooled grow room.


Totally. Super interesting to see the innovations happening now in this industry, and I think they'll benefit other industries as well. Can't wait to learn more about how I can recycle the heat as well, it would be super up here in the great white north!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2016)

Organic Miner said:


> Woowho, just caught up on the entire thread! Great stuff @ttystikk! Now, I want a water cooled grow room.





MildGro said:


> Totally. Super interesting to see the innovations happening now in this industry, and I think they'll benefit other industries as well. Can't wait to learn more about how I can recycle the heat as well, it would be super up here in the great white north!


Thanks for the kind words, guys- who knew there was this much engineering in growing a 'simple' plant? Lol


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2016)

BobBitchen said:


> B00M....





Fastslappy said:


> Dive Bombing Buds
> 
> 
> Ya did good grasshopper


I've declared war on high pot prices; these are just my opening salvos.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Oct 9, 2016)

Hey titty stick. How's it hanging?

I have my paperwork ready for growing hemp next year. Small scale at home for the pilot program. If all goes good I will then try for the large scale indoor setup.

As said before, I plan a trip up sometime or another. I was wondering if it would be possible for some help getting a portfolio together. 

When then the time comes and if it works out would you be interested being a consultant for a commercial indoor hemp facility? Paid of course.


----------



## Mohican (Oct 9, 2016)

Beautiful flowers! 

HEAVY!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Hey titty stick. How's it hanging?
> 
> I have my paperwork ready for growing hemp next year. Small scale at home for the pilot program. If all goes good I will then try for the large scale indoor setup.
> 
> ...


Hey brother! 

A little to the right. You asked...

I'd love to be involved, I'll help in any way I can! 

I look forward to your visit. 

We could grow beautiful plants together...


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Beautiful flowers!
> 
> HEAVY!


Lol, elsewhere I described them as Great BIG green ballistic missile trajectory donkey dick buds of Super LemonHaze, lmao!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Are you doing drain to waste?


Sorry I missed this earlier, yes it's dtw.



Frajola said:


> Great growth, again.
> is that soil?
> I got a Super Lemon Haze too, for my first ever vert,lol.


I'm using a soilless mix called Tupur Royal Gold. Among other things, it has biochar in it which helps buffer pH and nutrient uptake. This reduces brain damage and helps grow more vigorous plants.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Oct 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey brother!
> 
> A little to the right. You asked...
> 
> ...


This coming year will just be a personal farm grow under the states pilot program. Its basically a proof of concept for me. 

I need a portfolio and good business plan before approaching the backers. That puts opening commercially sometime 2018. Of course we have 3 different bills that need voting on. Two medical and one recreational bill. Those could change my plans some but doubtful. 

Unless something happens federally, which I doubt, It will be 2018-19 at the earliest for mj here.

My ultimate goal is to go commercial for hemp with emphasis on cannabinoid profile and extraction. Then on to the same for mj also when it goes legal. 

This all is a bit away but I got to start somewhere.


----------



## texasjack (Oct 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This reduces brain damage


Woah


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> This coming year will just be a personal farm grow under the states pilot program. Its basically a proof of concept for me.
> 
> I need a portfolio and good business plan before approaching the backers. That puts opening commercially sometime 2018. Of course we have 3 different bills that need voting on. Two medical and one recreational bill. Those could change my plans some but doubtful.
> 
> ...


Never a better time to start than early.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2016)

texasjack said:


> Woah


I've run straight coco coir before and I was not impressed. This mix solves all the problems of classic coco without creating any new ones- a no brainer for reducing the incidence of (grower's) brain damage.


----------



## Frajola (Oct 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sorry I missed this earlier, yes it's dtw.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a soilless mix called Tupur Royal Gold. Among other things, it has biochar in it which helps buffer pH and nutrient uptake. This reduces brain damage and helps grow more vigorous plants.


"This reduces brain damage",,,,what??


----------



## whitebb2727 (Oct 9, 2016)

Frajola said:


> "This reduces brain damage",,,,what??


Read the post above yours.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2016)

Frajola said:


> "This reduces brain damage",,,,what??


See? Everyone gets brain damage now and again.


----------



## pop22 (Oct 11, 2016)

been wondering if you'd completed the system! Will be interesting to see your report on energy savings.



ttystikk said:


> The hot side of my dual circuit chilling system is up and running, heating my home and my domestic hot water.
> 
> I'm recycling waste heat from my op and using it to replace heat I would otherwise have to buy from the utility.
> 
> ...


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 11, 2016)

pop22 said:


> been wondering if you'd completed the system! Will be interesting to see your report on energy savings.


The good news is that it's working great. The not quite so good news is that I'm saving natural gas, a cheaper form of energy than electricity.

That said, it's still saving money, reducing my carbon footprint while providing both heating and cooling and of course dehuey.


----------



## febisfebi (Oct 12, 2016)

MildGro said:


> Totally. Super interesting to see the innovations happening now in this industry, and I think they'll benefit other industries as well. Can't wait to learn more about how I can recycle the heat as well, it would be super up here in the great white north!


I agree completely


----------



## Mohican (Oct 14, 2016)

Drain Bammage!


----------



## THE KONASSURE (Oct 15, 2016)

@ttystikk Did you ever have to Yoda style tell someone there plant was "too old to begin the training" ? lol


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 15, 2016)

THE KONASSURE said:


> @ttystikk Did you ever have to Yoda style tell someone there plant was "too old to begin the training" ? lol


"If too old the plant is, tell you itself it will."


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2016)

Supemoon rising!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2016)

Goddammit, THINK! 
 

Exactly what do you think I'm trying to tell you here?!


----------



## GreenSanta (Oct 16, 2016)

water only ? lol


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2016)

GreenSanta said:


> water only ? lol


No, guess again. That's reclaim water. All the clues are there.


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 16, 2016)

Dead sensor?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> Dead sensor?


No. 

Fucker. Lol


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 16, 2016)

Lunar perigee is distorting gravitational impulses created by your sun sumulation?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

Ok...

That's reclaim water, it's coming from the units that remove moisture from the air. If the room is sealed, there's nowhere else for all that transpired water to go, right?

So, into the barrel it goes. But since it's been transpired, it's pure water. Hence EC 0.0 on the meter. So why not mix your nutes into THAT? Damn straight, that's why there's two cans; the reclaim water drains into one while the other holds the nutrient solution. Use up the nutes and strangely enough, the other barrel is full and ready.

CLOSED LOOP. You not only don't need an RO filter, you barely even need to add water at all.

I add dry nutrient salts, very easy to do in such soft water.

I add co2 in the form of tanks, monitor, controller and regulator.

Sealed room agriculture is pretty nifty. Who knew?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

So that steady stream of water was coming directly from the air handlers. It is the amount of water, in real time, that the plants themselves are transpiring. This is a fairly direct measurement of their metabolism. It's a stream here...

Get it?


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 17, 2016)

Will this water production increase as the Temps outside drop? Or does this some how balance out bc you draw the excess heat off for home heating?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> Lunar perigee is distorting gravitational impulses created by your sun sumulation?


And the Supermoon is cool but if it affects anything it would be seed/germ/cloning rates. If at all.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> And the Supermoon is cool but if it affects anything it would be seed/germ/cloning rates. If at all.


It does. It affects what you mentioned & nutrient uptake/ rate of uptake, etc on those "days"


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> Will this water production increase as the Temps outside drop? Or does this some how balance out bc you draw the excess heat off for home heating?


SEALED ROOM. Nothing in, nothing out. The plants are pumping the water from their roots to their leaves, bring nutes with. The leaves transpire water to stay cool while they photosynthasize light into sugars for them to use in growth.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> It does. It affects what you mentioned & nutrient uptake/ rate of uptake, etc on those "days"


Not in a sealed room. Nothing in, nothing out.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 17, 2016)

the gravitational pull of the Earth doesnt care if you are in a sealed room


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 17, 2016)

Joking though it is true re:gravity. I am generally talking about outdo  since thats what I know about.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

This is ttystikk's reclaim, return and reuse world; 

The condensate water is reclaimed and reused for fresh nutrient solution, the heat is reclaimed by the chiller with hot gas recovery system and reused for home heating and domestic hot water.

No, REALLY. RIGHT NOW. This ain't no science fiction, it's happening now at my crib.


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 17, 2016)

So I'm feeling stupid again tt, this isn't the system that provides cooling to your garden via a water chiller that I assume sits outside?


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 17, 2016)

Posting at same time so it is.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Joking though it is true re:gravity. I am generally talking about outdo  since thats what I know about.


I'm developing the prototype of the unit that will sustain people as they seek to live in inhospitable climates like deserts, underwater and even space itself. 

If I need to recreate gravity, that's fine with me. Bring it.


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 17, 2016)

Being a technical ass hole as I am, electrecity in heat out. Cool shit sorry I'm slow to catch up been away for a while.


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 17, 2016)

All you need for gravity is mass.

Get a critical mass behind the movement.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> So I'm feeling stupid again tt, this isn't the system that provides cooling to your garden via a water chiller that I assume sits outside?


You've landed in the mind warp corner of grow engineering, brother. I take the heat my HVAC system removes from the grow spaces and use it to stay warm.

Pretty slick, huh? What if I told you I had an even better trick up my sleeve?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> All you need for gravity is mass.
> 
> Get a critical mass behind the movement.


Oh, fuck no dude- that's planetary. Just spin the station and voila- instant gravity!


----------



## Sire Killem All (Oct 17, 2016)

Okay so it seems like the idea of using a humidifier to pull the water out of the air and recycling the water, I thought about it before but was deterred by people talking about airborne bacteria and such growing in the water. So my question is beyond cleanliness how are you keeping airborne bacteria and such out of the water? I always figured it would have EC of 0 since you are essentially condensating it out of the air.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

Sire Killem All said:


> Okay so it seems like the idea of using a humidifier to pull the water out of the air and recycling the water, I thought about it before but was deterred by people talking about airborne bacteria and such growing in the water. So my question is beyond cleanliness how are you keeping airborne bacteria and such out of the water? I always figured it would have EC of 0 since you are essentially condensating it out of the air.


Right idea, wrong equipment. A swamp cooler adds water to the air to cool. I'm using water cooled air handlers, think radiators with blowers pushing air through them.

If you will, the plants themselves are swamp coolers, transpiring liquid water into vapor. In so doing they also draw up nutrients and thus metabolize. Encouraging the plant to transpire freely is essential to optimum growth. They absorb the heat from the light source, while the spectrum is absorbed and converted through photosynthesis. 

These WCAH radiators are fed with cold water and thus adsorb heat from the space. Since the water temperature in the radiators is below dew point, they also sweat lots of moisture. In fact, moving this water load is a large percentage of the total HVAC load the room exerts on my cooling system.

Working together, the plants load the environment with water vapor and the WCAH removes it, and returns it to the tank where it can be mixed into nutrient solution again and again- and again.


----------



## GreenSanta (Oct 17, 2016)

Something goes in, 3 things to be accurate , salt based fertilizer, electricity, and you. Something goes out too, en product, and a lot of it I bet! Lol

Just something you said I don't know how u grow it's my first time popping by but a lot of the water my dehums arw pulling is from water evaporating the pots, not strictly plants transporting. 

I do use the water from my dehums but if it goes into the drain bucket u can have algae or nasty stuff growing in there u really want to have the water going in a bucket like u that u can clean easy. 

One thing I always wanted to try was to hook my dehums to a blumat system and now I'm asking myself why I have not done it yet.


----------



## Frajola (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ok...
> 
> That's reclaim water, it's coming from the units that remove moisture from the air. If the room is sealed, there's nowhere else for all that transpired water to go, right?
> 
> ...


Basic u got destiled water. Is that right?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

Frajola said:


> Basic u got destiled water. Is that right?


That's right. No need for RO, I don't even add hardly any from outside the room at all. When one tub is full I add nutes and pH balance and that becomes the watering solution. Meanwhile, fresh water continues to run into the other barrel, filling it. By the time the solution barrel is is used up, the condensate barrel has filled and I just switch the water to the other tank, add nutes and repeat.

Those trash cans are 32 gallons and the room fills one in less than two days. That's even with the lights off half the time. Think about the plant metabolism making that happen.

@GreenSanta yes I'm sure I do get some evaporation from the tops of my buckets, but that surface area is dwarfed by that of the plants in them. The plants drink up to two gallons of water a day... EACH.


----------



## gr865 (Oct 17, 2016)

I am just wondering what the pH of your reclaim water is?

My rainwater was 2 ppm and pH of 6.7.
The RO I use is 5 ppm and Ph of 5.65.
My tap water is 775 to 850 ppm and pH of 8.6
When I switched to Canna nutes they suggested I not use straight rain water or RO, that I should add some of my tap to raise the ppm level to 120 ppm. Did that the last part of this grow and will do it in future grows.


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> What if I told you I had an even better trick up my sleeve?


I like guessing games, I'll start with
a separate circuit for direct cooling cobs?


----------



## redi jedi (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Right idea, wrong equipment. A swamp cooler adds water to the air to cool. I'm using water cooled air handlers, think radiators with blowers pushing air through them.
> 
> If you will, the plants themselves are swamp coolers, transpiring liquid water into vapor. In so doing they also draw up nutrients and thus metabolize. Encouraging the plant to transpire freely is essential to optimum growth. They absorb the heat from the light source, while the spectrum is absorbed and converted through photosynthesis.
> 
> ...


All that typing and you still didn't say you should sterilize condensate you want to reuse. Cause you should. Not a big deal when the equipment is new, or if you keep it clean.


----------



## Frajola (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's right. No need for RO, I don't even add hardly any from outside the room at all. When one tub is full I add nutes and pH balance and that becomes the watering solution. Meanwhile, fresh water continues to run into the other barrel, filling it. By the time the solution barrel is is used up, the condensate barrel has filled and I just switch the water to the other tank, add nutes and repeat.
> 
> Those trash cans are 32 gallons and the room fills one in less than two days. That's even with the lights off half the time. Think about the plant metabolism making that happen.
> 
> @GreenSanta yes I'm sure I do get some evaporation from the tops of my buckets, but that surface area is dwarfed by that of the plants in them. The plants drink up to two gallons of water a day... EACH.


Not just saving some $, U got H2O , no public sanitation's chemicals in it, only H2O. Like rain, lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> All that typing and you still didn't say you should sterilize condensate you want to reuse. Cause you should. Not a big deal when the equipment is new, or if you keep it clean.


I reuse it so quickly it doesn't have a chance to go off. I'm no longer in RDWC, so all those headaches go by the wayside as well.


----------



## texasjack (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ok...
> 
> That's reclaim water, it's coming from the units that remove moisture from the air. If the room is sealed, there's nowhere else for all that transpired water to go, right?
> 
> ...


Ok, that's amazing. From a science background I really like it. From a stoner background I fucking love it!


----------



## texasjack (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's right. No need for RO, I don't even add hardly any from outside the room at all. When one tub is full I add nutes and pH balance and that becomes the watering solution. Meanwhile, fresh water continues to run into the other barrel, filling it. By the time the solution barrel is is used up, the condensate barrel has filled and I just switch the water to the other tank, add nutes and repeat.
> 
> Those trash cans are 32 gallons and the room fills one in less than two days. That's even with the lights off half the time. Think about the plant metabolism making that happen.
> 
> @GreenSanta yes I'm sure I do get some evaporation from the tops of my buckets, but that surface area is dwarfed by that of the plants in them. The plants drink up to two gallons of water a day... EACH.


Don't forget breath. We let a significant amount of water out ourselves.


----------



## a mongo frog (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Pretty slick, huh? What if I told you I had an even better trick up my sleeve?


Yea its slick!!!! But whats up the sleeve? I believe i know what it is and thats fucking a great idea!!!!!


----------



## Frajola (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's right. No need for RO, I don't even add hardly any from outside the room at all. When one tub is full I add nutes and pH balance and that becomes the watering solution. Meanwhile, fresh water continues to run into the other barrel, filling it. By the time the solution barrel is is used up, the condensate barrel has filled and I just switch the water to the other tank, add nutes and repeat.
> 
> Those trash cans are 32 gallons and the room fills one in less than two days. That's even with the lights off half the time. Think about the plant metabolism making that happen.
> 
> @GreenSanta yes I'm sure I do get some evaporation from the tops of my buckets, but that surface area is dwarfed by that of the plants in them. The plants drink up to two gallons of water a day... EACH.


Saving water could be a very good first step for the human kind , and growers too. Over here the state already asked to every one to save water, we haven't had enough rain this whole year. The amount of water that came out from my ac is near 0. Drought!


----------



## redi jedi (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I reuse it so quickly it doesn't have a chance to go off. I'm no longer in RDWC, so all those headaches go by the wayside as well.


Its not a rdwc issue. Like I was saying, your equipment is new...and clean. Those air handlers will eventually get dirty. That dirt is what could contaminant your condensate.


----------



## MildGro (Oct 17, 2016)

Sounds like the only thing missing here is some aquaponics


----------



## a mongo frog (Oct 17, 2016)

Frajola said:


> Saving water could be a very good first step for the human kind , and growers too. Over here the state already asked to every one to save water, we haven't had enough rain this whole year. The amount of water that came out from my ac is near 0. Drought!


Do you use the A/C water? I don't have the balls. I remember someone saying stuff about slime. Not sure what slime, just got scared. Dehue water too, I'm scared of.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Yea its slick!!!! But whats up the sleeve? I believe i know what it is and thats fucking a great idea!!!!!


Oh I love guesses!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Do you use the A/C water? I don't have the balls. I remember someone saying stuff about slime. Not sure what slime, just got scared. Dehue water too, I'm scared of.


That barrel fills up every day with the very same reclaim water you're afraid of. It works awesome. 

The contaminants folks are concerned about only matter if the water is allowed to sit for long periods- something it doesn't get to do around here.


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 17, 2016)

You have a lot of options I think for a pretty quick sterillization. Something I remember being nicknamed a sulfur bomb is the first thing to come to mind besides just a good physical cleaning. Wtf if mold any way, why do I even own a towel, life in colorado.


----------



## Frajola (Oct 17, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Do you use the A/C water? I don't have the balls. I remember someone saying stuff about slime. Not sure what slime, just got scared. Dehue water too, I'm scared of.


I got a 14k btu a/c w dehue. On rainy days the a/c collects some water out of the room, but overall there is no water. Humidity levels around 35~45% in a attic. Didn't notice any slime growth so far, the water that drains out of the reservoir is clean I would drink that shit. lol


----------



## Frajola (Oct 17, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Its not a rdwc issue. Like I was saying, your equipment is new...and clean. Those air handlers will eventually get dirty. That dirt is what could contaminant your condensate.


what is this dirt made of? like algae green/ brown ? Gotta be a system flush some how to avoid contaminants.


----------



## redi jedi (Oct 17, 2016)

Frajola said:


> what is this dirt made of? like algae green/ brown ? Gotta be a system flush some how to avoid contaminants.


The dirt is everything in the air...dust mostly but the concern is if water can sit in the device. Like in a collection pan before theres enough to drain or all of it never drains. Lots of maybes and ifs but legionnaires is real.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> The dirt is everything in the air...dust mostly but the concern is if water can sit in the device. Like in a collection pan before theres enough to drain or all of it never drains. Lots of maybes and ifs but legionnaires is real.


It gets mixed into nutrient solution, then poured into substrate. No one is drinking it, snorting it or putting it in their cocktails. 

I'll read up on legionnaires disease just to be sure I'm covering my bases.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No one is drinking it, snorting it or putting it in their cocktails


LMAO good to know


----------



## redi jedi (Oct 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It gets mixed into nutrient solution, then poured into substrate. No one is drinking it, snorting it or putting it in their cocktails.
> 
> I'll read up on legionnaires disease just to be sure I'm covering my bases.


Obviously..but shit happens.


----------



## Frajola (Oct 18, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Do you use the A/C water? I don't have the balls. I remember someone saying stuff about slime. Not sure what slime, just got scared. Dehue water too, I'm scared of.


Water is no joke,like tty said, water poses harm only if it is left for a long period of time like stagnant, put under hid lights u ll see green within a bit. Other than that I would re use the water no worries. The thing we dont know 4 sure is, could the gadget be a host disease in a mid term?
and yes I would re use the water


----------



## pop22 (Oct 19, 2016)

Nah, its probably Supra playing with his lights again...lol!



ttystikk said:


> Supemoon rising!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2016)

Plants love it, I've been doing it for years.


----------



## pop22 (Oct 19, 2016)

pure water



ttystikk said:


> Goddammit, THINK!
> View attachment 3806834
> 
> Exactly what do you think I'm trying to tell you here?!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2016)

pop22 said:


> pure water


More than that; plant metabolism.


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 19, 2016)

The gadget is a host for disease, specially when you consider its an air handler for a moble home and tt has twelve kids snotting, shiting and pissing all over the place.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 19, 2016)

Well there arent any snotting - shitting kids at Ttysticks place so that doesnt apply


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> The gadget is a host for disease, specially when you consider its an air handler for a moble home and tt has twelve kids snotting, shiting and pissing all over the place.


Mobile home? Twelve kids? I think you may have me confused with someone else.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Mobile home? Twelve kids? I think you may have me confused with someone else.


LMFAO hahahahaha


----------



## SSGrower (Oct 19, 2016)

Probably, I'm still waiting to se what's up your sleve (s).


----------



## Frajola (Oct 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> More than that; plant metabolism.


The drainage's analysis shows how efficient the nuts up taken is duh ??? less than 2 cents.........lol 


isn't that....nahhh


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2016)

Frajola said:


> The drainage's analysis shows how efficient the nuts up taken is duh ??? less than 2 cents.........lol
> 
> 
> isn't that....nahhh


It's a measure of how much the plants are transpiring, and thus is a good indicator of overall growth rate.


----------



## nevergoodenuf (Oct 22, 2016)

@ttystikk Do you have a Lux meter? I am curious at what the lux is at your canopy. I cooked my last vertical run so I don't know if I was to close or to far away.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> @ttystikk Do you have a Lux meter? I am curious at what the lux is at your canopy. I cooked my last vertical run so I don't know if I was to close or to far away.


I have access to a Lighting Passport. It does suddenly seem logical to take some readings, huh? Lol

I was going for 825 PPfD when I designed my COB LED module based array. I ended up higher than that because of lenses and cold water chilling.


----------



## nevergoodenuf (Oct 22, 2016)

I am usually over 100,000 lux and have been as high as 170,000.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> I am usually over 100,000 lux and have been as high as 170,000.


No clue about my Lux levels. I really try to resolve all these numbers to PPf and/or PPfD because of the old saw, 'lumens are for humans, PAR is for plants'.


----------



## nevergoodenuf (Oct 22, 2016)

I know I should be using a Par meter, but my money is going elsewhere. Even this is barrowed.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> I know I should be using a Par meter, but my money is going elsewhere. Even this is barrowed.


I'll see what I can do about measuring in several different scales.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 25, 2016)

It's that time again, when scary monsters go bump in the night; 

Blue Dream...


----------



## Vnsmkr (Oct 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's that time again, when scary monsters go bump in the night;
> 
> Blue Dream...
> View attachment 3813655 View attachment 3813656 View attachment 3813657


What a beautiful monster


----------



## Lucky Luke (Oct 25, 2016)

BeautiFULL!


----------



## onkulas (Oct 25, 2016)

shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.......... man.... thhat's just beautiful..... please, tell me: do you run only one vertical light for that height? and i assume it\s a 1000w, right?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 25, 2016)

onkulas said:


> shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.......... man.... thhat's just beautiful..... please, tell me: do you run only one vertical light for that height? and i assume it\s a 1000w, right?


ThankYou! 

This plant was grown with 3 COB LED modules, each pulling 225W from the wall. Sooooooo 675W.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Oct 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> ThankYou!
> 
> This plant was grown with 3 COB LED modules, each pulling 225W from the wall. Sooooooo 675W.


Id say ur now a convert of LED?


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 25, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> Id say ur now a convert of LED?


I like them a lot.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 25, 2016)

Here's why there were bumping noises. She's bouncing off the ceiling!


----------



## torontoke (Oct 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's why there were bumping noises. She's bouncing off the ceiling!
> View attachment 3813932



 Ur rocking it tty


----------



## pop22 (Oct 25, 2016)

Omg! And I've been wanting to grow some Blue Dream........!


----------



## pop22 (Oct 25, 2016)

let us know a final weight on that beauty when she's done!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 25, 2016)

pop22 said:


> let us know a final weight on that beauty when she's done!


Funny, everybody SAYS they hate fat girls...


----------



## pop22 (Oct 25, 2016)

Not EVERYBODY..........lol!



ttystikk said:


> Funny, everybody SAYS they hate fat girls...


----------



## Lucky Luke (Oct 25, 2016)

Fat bottom girls they make the rockin world go round


----------



## pop22 (Oct 25, 2016)

i believe max lumens around 110,000 if I remember correctly. 170,000 would be a waste in that case. You running CO2? if not, probably over 80,000 would be a waste. To use that much light, everything must be maxed and conditions just right. Kind of like tty here does...........



nevergoodenuf said:


> I am usually over 100,000 lux and have been as high as 170,000.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 25, 2016)

CORRECTION: 

Feck. In an obviously extra stoned moment, I labeled the plant in today's set incorrectly.

IT'S BLUE CHEESE.
Specifically Blueberry x Cheese

Many apologies for the error! 

Yeah, so if it didn't look right, that's because it wasn't.


----------



## Frajola (Oct 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's that time again, when scary monsters go bump in the night;
> 
> Blue Dream...
> View attachment 3813655 View attachment 3813656 View attachment 3813657


You r going to need help to smoke all that monster,lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 25, 2016)

Frajola said:


> You r going to need help to smoke all that monster,lol.


Amazing how I'm never short of volunteers!


----------



## Pig4buzz (Oct 25, 2016)

Exactly how long from clone/seed did the beast take


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 25, 2016)

Pig4buzz said:


> Exactly how long from clone/seed did the beast take


From clone, about 5 months.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 29, 2016)

Chillin at the Denver Canna Grow Expo right now, definitely a good time!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 30, 2016)

Copied from another thread, for relevance; 



PSUAGRO. said:


> different strokes for different folks............I found vert/stadium style difficult while trying to hit 1gpw with HID, didn't happen anyway. I'm not a good indoor grower so it makes sense. Doing this shit out of a closet now is easy peasy, the rest forget about it. Cheap soil, perlite, oc+ in my for profit days, hated scrogs and any other labor "intensive" stuff==== lazy, I remember my Innoled 98 cri single cob run, I fucking despised rotating pots........lol
> 
> You are a vert veteran, so I can't disagree with you.
> 
> be safe and happy growing RIU


When I started doing vert grows, it was much more labor intensive. Years of doing it and constantly trying new approaches has led to substantial gains in productivity, defined as yield per hours spent.

Equipment upgrades and redesigns, including but not limited to COB LED lighting, have also played a role in these improvements.

I think the time is right for vertical growing to come out of the closet and into the commercial space, because it can provide more product at less cost without sacrificing quality.

My time spent wandering around the Denver Canna Grow Expo yesterday and today has shown me that the necessary building blocks are in place for a revolution in indoor growing. All it takes is a shift in perspective.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 30, 2016)




----------



## ttystikk (Oct 30, 2016)

Not quite finished with the day, still got unloading and such.

First impressions of the weekend are that this industry is primed for a revolution in the technology of production.

Greenhouses
Automated growing
Tracking
Lighting
Data management
Etc
Etc etc

Mind blowing.


----------



## GroErr (Oct 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Not quite finished with the day, still got unloading and such.
> 
> First impressions of the weekend are that this industry is primed for a revolution in the technology of production.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a great show, looking forward to some maturing of grow tech and some competition to drive prices down. Hmmm, technology + growing, been there done that for 30 years, perhaps it's time to get out of boring tech into green tech  Nah, time to semi-retire soon, should be interesting to watch though!


----------



## Frajola (Oct 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Chillin at the Denver Canna Grow Expo right now, definitely a good time!


God bless CO. I wish to be over there,oh boy enjoy !
how to get a taste of this Expo?


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Nov 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's that time again, when scary monsters go bump in the night;
> 
> [Blue Cheese]
> View attachment 3813655 View attachment 3813656 View attachment 3813657


Holy cats! That thing is beastly! Nice work, tty!


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 3, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Holy cats! That thing is beastly! Nice work, tty!


She's tasty, too! Thanks!


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 4, 2016)

I'll let the scale tell the tale;


----------



## OldMedUser (Nov 5, 2016)

So this is something considered new? !

I've been using horizontal and vertical grows to optimize my yields for over a decade. I thought everyone knew about this stuff. But even Ed Rosenthal slagged me when I asked about my DWC experiments back in '01.

I'm strapping my 4 girls into this rig over the weekend and it's my regular way to do my DWC/soilless plants for years.

 

 

That's one plant. I'll be rigging a bigger horizontal screen for these 4 hungry girls tomorrow.


----------



## JSB99 (Nov 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> ....and the whole show.
> View attachment 3743464 View attachment 3743465 View attachment 3743466


That is so cool, growing up a trellis like that! I really like your layout and your lights!


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 5, 2016)

JSB99 said:


> That is so cool, growing up a trellis like that! I really like your layout and your lights!


Bet I sent you back to your CAD program, didn't I? Lol


----------



## JSB99 (Nov 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Bet I sent you back to your CAD program, didn't I? Lol


LOL, yeah! I'm just getting started. But I've gotten pretty fast with the 3d stuff so it's not all that big of a deal.

Besides, making the 3d designs is just a lot of fun. So now, I get to build something new


----------



## Mohican (Nov 5, 2016)

Hey TTY,
What is your DIY formula from salts?
Cheers,
Mo


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 5, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Hey TTY,
> What is your DIY formula from salts?
> Cheers,
> Mo


VEG
2g/gal 5-11-26 mix with micros
2g/gal calcium nitrate (used to be 3)
1g/gal epsom salt

BLOOM
As above, plus;
.5g/gal MKP

EC and pH to taste and feed copiously!


----------



## Mohican (Nov 5, 2016)

Awesome!

What do you mix to get the 5-11-26?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 5, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Awesome!
> 
> What do you mix to get the 5-11-26?


I mix a road trip to Colorado Springs with cash, lol 

Hydro-gardens.com makes it, along with a bunch of other crop specific nutrient mixes. They have ag pricing on MKP, calcium nitrate, epsom salt and many more nutrient salts too.

One needn't pick it up in person, they'll happily ship. Tell them I sent you!


----------



## Alejondro (Nov 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I mix a road trip to Colorado Springs with cash, lol
> 
> Hydro-gardens.com makes it, along with a bunch of other crop specific nutrient mixes. They have ag pricing on MKP, calcium nitrate, epsom salt and many more nutrient salts too.
> 
> One needn't pick it up in person, they'll happily ship. Tell them I sent you!


Hydro Gardens is the shit right? small world, i live like twenty minutes away, south in the springs. Just started going


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 5, 2016)

Alejondro said:


> Hydro Gardens is the shit right? small world, i live like twenty minutes away, south in the springs. Just started going


Lori is the best.


----------



## Frajola (Nov 5, 2016)

A little off the topic, eastcoastmo has great seeds and he is raising some funds to support our riubrother Vnsmkr , I did buy some beans today, as some RIU members did so and he still has a great stuff available ,so who ever wants to check that out send him a pm, thank u guys.
Peace and lovely weekend 2 us all .


----------



## Alejondro (Nov 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lori is the best.


I dont know her. she sounds hot


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 5, 2016)

Alejondro said:


> I dont know her. she sounds hot


She's the owner's wife, and probably a bit old for you. 

She engaged me in conversation as soon as she realized I'm a different breed than most of 'those pot kids' who come in declaring their complete ignorance and arrogance about plant nutrition. She especially loathes the ones who ask for things like Voodoo Juice! 

They are very knowledgeable people and can provide insight about stock solutions, compatibilty, ratios, shelf lives and much more.


----------



## Alejondro (Nov 6, 2016)

jk


ttystikk said:


> She's the owner's wife, and probably a bit old for you.
> 
> She engaged me in conversation as soon as she realized I'm a different breed than most of 'those pot kids' who come in declaring their complete ignorance and arrogance about plant nutrition. She especially loathes the ones who ask for things like Voodoo Juice!
> 
> They are very knowledgeable people and can provide insight about stock solutions, compatibilty, ratios, shelf lives and much more.


I'm 68 years old.
But yeah, i learned more from my first visit talking to some employees than i did my whole first year growing. and its because , like you eluded to; no gimmicks covered by some admittedly alluring artwork to distract from some well needed info & knowledge of plants. you may not relate but personally i just love the place because i always need to learn more about how all this works, and it's just so much easier when i can hear it from another person, whos genuinely enthusiastic, as opposed to reading yet another article or paper silently to myself. (can't read)
And you already know, thats not always something you can get from every dro shop


----------



## Alejondro (Nov 6, 2016)

hey since you're from the southern CO -ish area, I've always wondered why it seems that every single hydroponic or cultivation shop closes at 7 pm? ive asked a few shops. I know hydro gardens closes at five, but that makes sense just because theyre more family. is it just a really solid trend that no one dare deviate from?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 6, 2016)

Alejondro said:


> hey since you're from the southern CO -ish area, I've always wondered why it seems that every single hydroponic or cultivation shop closes at 7 pm? ive asked a few shops. I know hydro gardens closes at five, but that makes sense just because theyre more family. is it just a really solid trend that no one dare deviate from?


I'm in Ft Collins. 

I think they close like little mom n pop retailers that they are. We're just used to Walmart hours for everything. 

Really, the less you set foot in a 'dro shop the more likely you are to become truly well informed about gardening and the less likely you are to be ripped off by overly inflated prices. 



Alejondro said:


> jk
> 
> I'm 68 years old.
> But yeah, i learned more from my first visit talking to some employees than i did my whole first year growing. and its because , like you eluded to; no gimmicks covered by some admittedly alluring artwork to distract from some well needed info & knowledge of plants. you may not relate but personally i just love the place because i always need to learn more about how all this works, and it's just so much easier when i can hear it from another person, whos genuinely enthusiastic, as opposed to reading yet another article or paper silently to myself. (can't read)
> And you already know, thats not always something you can get from every dro shop


Okay, so maybe she isn't too old for ya! 

Of course I can relate! I'm a big fan of people who know what they're doing and can dispense advice that's backed up by decades of first hand experience, as opposed to 'I read it online...'

You know they have a whole catalog full of goodies and if you read it closely you'll find it's a LOT cheaper than the 'dro shop.


----------



## tiltswitch (Nov 6, 2016)

Lol..... that is one monster bud tstyk


----------



## Alejondro (Nov 6, 2016)

No shit? I was in foco for like five years. what part of town you in?


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Nov 6, 2016)

Alejondro said:


> eluded


I think you meant _alluded_.

I'm only posting this because you seem like a thoughtful gentleman, capable of eschewing all _butthurtedness,_ which is not a word at all.  Also because I'm a fussy little bitch.



OldMedUser said:


> So this is something considered new? !
> 
> I've been using horizontal and vertical grows to optimize my yields for over a decade. I thought everyone knew about this stuff. But even Ed Rosenthal slagged me when I asked about my DWC experiments back in '01.
> 
> ...


A. Vertical is better than horizontal, and nobody claimed vertical trellis was a new idea.
2) You're doing vertical poorly.
c: What are you going on about? (Please don't reply)
IV - Do you self-aggrandize or name-drop much? (Never mind)


----------



## Alejondro (Nov 6, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I think you meant _alluded_.
> 
> I'm only posting this because you seem like a thoughtful gentleman, capable of eschewing all _butthurtedness,_ which is not a word at all.  Also because I'm a fussy little bitch.
> 
> ...


lol i was literally sitting there for like five seconds trying to spell it right. obviously i did not succeed. im glad i was close enough for you to know what i meant


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Nov 6, 2016)

Alejondro said:


> lol i was literally sitting there for like five seconds trying to spell it right. obviously i did not succeed. im glad i was close enough for you to know what i meant


Hey, at least elude is an actual word! Thanks for sharing the story behind that, it makes me grin. Ttystikk has some background in English pedantry, he will appreciate it. I misspelled holistic once a while back, and he called it out, and I thank him for it.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 6, 2016)

Alejondro said:


> No shit? I was in foco for like five years. what part of town you in?


Over by Blevins.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 6, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Hey, at least elude is an actual word! Thanks for sharing the story behind that, it makes me grin. Ttystikk has some background in English pedantry, he will appreciate it. I misspelled holistic once a while back, and he called it out, and I thank him for it.


It was beaten into me. I grew up under a special linguistic curse; not just one, BOTH of my parents were English teachers at Colorado State. Oh, the horror!


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 6, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I think you meant _alluded_.
> 
> I'm only posting this because you seem like a thoughtful gentleman, capable of eschewing all _butthurtedness,_ which is not a word at all.  Also because I'm a fussy little bitch.
> 
> ...


Lol cracked me right up this morning!


----------



## pop22 (Nov 6, 2016)

LOL! Smart woman! Bet she goes spastic when they mention Terpinator........ But there is no better product...............at parting a grower from his money!





ttystikk said:


> She especially loathes the ones who ask for things like Voodoo Juice!


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 6, 2016)

pop22 said:


> LOL! Smart woman! Bet she goes spastic when they mention Terpinator........ But there is no better product...............at parting a grower from his money!


She was very knowledgeable and asked me plenty of questions about our corner of the ag industry. It's clear she would like to be more involved in it but also (rightly, IMHO) feels like it isn't her job to supply rudimentary growing knowledge to recalcitrant young punks who are rolling their eyes at her cuz- cuz- cuz- they read this thing in Rosebud last year and it MUST be right! ..and her HALF CENTURY of experience in agronomy counts for nothing. 

You want to know why more ag firms aren't getting involved in cannabis? Because they know the average pot grower is an arrogant moron and they got no time for that. WE are the newcomers, the idiots- and the sooner this industry figures that out the better off we'll be.


----------



## pop22 (Nov 6, 2016)

Yeah, I figured that out a long time ago. It makes me sad all the growers who take the word of cannabis nute companies and false experts for granted. They don't lie to us right?.............

And then "experts" like Jorge continue to propagate (pun intended..lol ) garden myths rather than admit he was wrong ( and all the "experts" do it! ).

Any chance you know Read Spear? He has a book called Marijuana Cultivation Reconsidered. Its an excellent book minus all the bullshit. I'd like to see more people read it. His work is based on science. And he hates garden myths........





ttystikk said:


> She was very knowledgeable and asked me plenty of questions about our corner of the ag industry. It's clear she would like to be more involved in it but also (rightly, IMHO) feels like it isn't her job to supply rudimentary growing knowledge to recalcitrant young punks who are rolling their eyes at her cuz- cuz- cuz- they read this thing in Rosebud last year and it MUST be right! ..and her HALF CENTURY of experience in agronomy counts for nothing.
> 
> You want to know why more ag firms aren't getting involved in cannabis? Because they know the average pot grower is an arrogant moron and they got no time for that. WE are the newcomers, the idiots- and the sooner this industry figures that out the better off we'll be.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 6, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Yeah, I figured that out a long time ago. It makes me sad all the growers who take the word of cannabis nute companies and false experts for granted. They don't lie to us right?.............
> 
> And then "experts" like Jorge continue to propagate (pun intended..lol ) garden myths rather than admit he was wrong ( and all the "experts" do it! ).
> 
> Any chance you know Read Spear? He has a book called Marijuana Cultivation Reconsidered. Its an excellent book minus all the bullshit. I'd like to see more people read it. His work is based on science. And he hates garden myths........


I haven't seen that book, I'll look for it.

The experts and nute companies in this industry lie because they're profiting by doing so... and until the average grower becomes knowledgeable enough to see these lies for what they are, it will continue to be.


----------



## mmjmon (Nov 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> VEG
> 2g/gal 5-11-26 mix with micros
> 2g/gal calcium nitrate (used to be 3)
> 1g/gal epsom salt
> ...



Hi,
I noticed the calcium nitrate is now 2 grams instead of the 3. Are you dropping the amount of calcium nitrate at flip? Or, did you find everything works better using the 2 grams throughout veg and bloom? 

Have you seen this done in soil at all?

thanks


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Nov 7, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Yeah, I figured that out a long time ago. It makes me sad all the growers who take the word of cannabis nute companies and false experts for granted. They don't lie to us right?.............
> 
> And then "experts" like Jorge continue to propagate (pun intended..lol ) garden myths rather than admit he was wrong ( and all the "experts" do it! ).
> 
> Any chance you know Read Spear? He has a book called Marijuana Cultivation Reconsidered. Its an excellent book minus all the bullshit. I'd like to see more people read it. His work is based on science. And he hates garden myths........


I just bought that book on Kindle per your recommendation, it looks great!


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 7, 2016)

mmjmon said:


> Hi,
> I noticed the calcium nitrate is now 2 grams instead of the 3. Are you dropping the amount of calcium nitrate at flip? Or, did you find everything works better using the 2 grams throughout veg and bloom?
> 
> Have you seen this done in soil at all?
> ...


The change came about because I noticed a little canoeing and because the manufacturer's recommendations say so. 

I'm currently in Tupur Royal Gold, a soilless mix with coco, perlite and forest litter. I'm very happy with how it's working.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 7, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I just bought that book on Kindle per your recommendation, it looks great!


Excellent! Now you can read it and give me the Cliff's Notes! Lol


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Nov 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Excellent! Now you can read it and give me the Cliff's Notes! Lol


I bought both of the guy's books, and in the first few pages of each I can tell he's not on some sort of religious crusade, and he understands that science is real. So that's pretty cool...I will file a book report when I'm done with them.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 7, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I bought both of the guy's books, and in the first few pages of each I can tell he's not on some sort of religious crusade, and he understands that science is real. So that's pretty cool...I will file a book report when I'm done with them.


...and don't be late or I'll make you sit in detention. Lol, j/k- besides, once one reaches adulthood, the prospect of a quiet place to be for a few minutes ceases to have deterrent value!


----------



## pop22 (Nov 8, 2016)

Thank you and glad you like it! Nice to see science supported grow info. 



Michael Huntherz said:


> I just bought that book on Kindle per your recommendation, it looks great!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Nov 8, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Thank you and glad you like it! Nice to see science supported grow info.


The first book, "Small Spaces Huge Yields" is short, and seems fully contained and updated within "Marijuana Cultivation Reconsidered." I'm happy to have bought them both, the guy seems to be really thoughtful, and profits from his books are dedicated to ending prohibition. His claims about his local tap-water quality makes me think he might live in Fort Collins. Everyone I've met from that town is chill as fuck.  I've read 85% of the book now, it isn't long. If you are interested in the botany aspect, Section 1 will refresh your understanding of taxonomy, plant anatomy and physiology, photosynthesis, and nutrition. Section 2 is the practical guide to growing good weed. I'm skeptical of the usefulness of "duoponics," that's the part of the book I skipped, but I intend to read it in detail today. I'm surprised he doesn't seem to give much mention of passive DTW coco or similar methods. He does own a soil company, so maybe I shouldn't be. Section 3 is back to the science, with a discussion of basic genetic inheritance, a beginner's guide to selective breeding, some fascinating stuff about soil chemistry and compost teas, a delightfully nerdy discussion on how to measure light properly (my favorite part aside from the plant biology section) and some other bits and bobs about nutrition and cloning. There's a lot of great references listed throughout, and it is a thoroughly researched piece of work. I can't say I learned an amazing amount from it, but the stuff I did learn was pretty darn cool. Well worth the $10 for an electronic copy. I would happily own a dead-tree version of it.


----------



## pop22 (Nov 8, 2016)

I actually use a variation of duoponics, I call it soilponics. Here it is in action. IOts merely a DIY bottom watered system and it works quite well. This is a 20 gallon pot: Notice the tomato clone in the background. She became half of my garden tomato crop!

 



Michael Huntherz said:


> The first book, "Small Spaces Huge Yields" is short, and seems fully contained and updated within "Marijuana Cultivation Reconsidered." I'm happy to have bought them both, the guy seems to be really thoughtful, and profits from his books are dedicated to ending prohibition. His claims about his local tap-water quality makes me think he might live in Fort Collins. Everyone I've met from that town is chill as fuck.  I've read 85% of the book now, it isn't long. If you are interested in the botany aspect, Section 1 will refresh your understanding of taxonomy, plant anatomy and physiology, photosynthesis, and nutrition. Section 2 is the practical guide to growing good weed. I'm skeptical of the usefulness of "duoponics," that's the part of the book I skipped, but I intend to read it in detail today. I'm surprised he doesn't seem to give much mention of passive DTW coco or similar methods. He does own a soil company, so maybe I shouldn't be. Section 3 is back to the science, with a discussion of basic genetic inheritance, a beginner's guide to selective breeding, some fascinating stuff about soil chemistry and compost teas, a delightfully nerdy discussion on how to measure light properly (my favorite part aside from the plant biology section) and some other bits and bobs about nutrition and cloning. There's a lot of great references listed throughout, and it is a thoroughly researched piece of work. I can't say I learned an amazing amount from it, but the stuff I did learn was pretty darn cool. Well worth the $10 for an electronic copy. I would happily own a dead-tree version of it.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 8, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> The first book, "Small Spaces Huge Yields" is short, and seems fully contained and updated within "Marijuana Cultivation Reconsidered." I'm happy to have bought them both, the guy seems to be really thoughtful, and profits from his books are dedicated to ending prohibition. His claims about his local tap-water quality makes me think he might live in Fort Collins. Everyone I've met from that town is chill as fuck.  I've read 85% of the book now, it isn't long. If you are interested in the botany aspect, Section 1 will refresh your understanding of taxonomy, plant anatomy and physiology, photosynthesis, and nutrition. Section 2 is the practical guide to growing good weed. I'm skeptical of the usefulness of "duoponics," that's the part of the book I skipped, but I intend to read it in detail today. I'm surprised he doesn't seem to give much mention of passive DTW coco or similar methods. He does own a soil company, so maybe I shouldn't be. Section 3 is back to the science, with a discussion of basic genetic inheritance, a beginner's guide to selective breeding, some fascinating stuff about soil chemistry and compost teas, a delightfully nerdy discussion on how to measure light properly (my favorite part aside from the plant biology section) and some other bits and bobs about nutrition and cloning. There's a lot of great references listed throughout, and it is a thoroughly researched piece of work. I can't say I learned an amazing amount from it, but the stuff I did learn was pretty darn cool. Well worth the $10 for an electronic copy. I would happily own a dead-tree version of it.


I'm impressed, you must read a lot faster than I do lol

The section on duoponics sounds interesting, in large part because it may describe my current technique.


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## Michael Huntherz (Nov 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm impressed, you must read a lot faster than I do lol
> 
> The section on duoponics sounds interesting, in large part because it may describe my current technique.


I thought it seemed a good description of what Tupur and other coco media represents, as well. I just stayed up for a while reading last night because I slept all day for two days while I was sick. I do read fast, though, especially if the subject is familiar to me. If I was brand-new to growing I'd have read much more slowly.


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## ttystikk (Nov 8, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I thought it seemed a good description of what Tupur is, as well. I just stayed up for a while reading last night because I slept all day for two days while I was sick. I do read fast, though, especially if the subject is familiar to me. If I was brand-new to growing I'd have read much more slowly.


I can't wait to hear what the author says about the approach.


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## Michael Huntherz (Nov 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I can't wait to hear what the author says about the approach.


Well, duoponics aka Jack Pots is not at all like dtw coco, its a perpetually wick-watered soil setup and the author's method uses 4 cubic feet of soil for one plant! I am sure one can grow monsters that way, but it seems a bit overwrought to me. I still like the book, but duoponics is not my jam. I might try the guy's soil, though. http://scientificsoils.com/

Blumats in soil has really worked well for my uses, I am hoping I can get Tupur similarly dialed in this run. I tried going down to 3 gallon fabric pots but I think they are a bit too small. I think 4*5 gallon smart pots is a solid setup for my 1.2 meter floor space and 600W hps. Until I retool my whole rig it seems like my best option, The more I strayed from it the less awesome my results have been.


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 8, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Well, duoponics aka Jack Pots is not at all like dtw coco, its a perpetually watered soil setup and the author's setup uses 4 cubic feet of soil for one plant! I am sure one can grow monsters that way, but it seems a bit overwrought to me. I still like the book, but duoponics is not my jam. I might try the guy's soil, though. http://scientificsoils.com/
> 
> Blumats in soil has really worked well for my uses, I am hoping I can get Tupur similarly dialed in this run. I tried going down to 3 gallon fabric pots but I think they are a bit too small. I think 4*5 gallon smart pots is a solid setup for my 1.2 meter floor space and 600W hps. Until I retool my whole setup it seems like my best option, The more I strayed from it the less awesome my results have been.


5's probably be perfect....


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## Michael Huntherz (Nov 8, 2016)

The weird thing, to me, is that Mr. Read has a recipe for soil that uses quite a bit of coco coir, but no mention is made of coco as a base growing medium. The only mention of it, in either book, is in his soil recipe. Surprising, considering how popular it has become with folks I know. I did a search of the bigger book using the digital magic of Kindle, and the word 'coir' appears once, the string 'coco' appears nowhere.


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## ttystikk (Nov 8, 2016)

Very strange. I'm doing a bit of hunting about for top quality substrates myself and I'll have more to share on that next week.


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## pop22 (Nov 9, 2016)

The coco replaces peat moss as a medium. Peat is not a renewable resource as it take hundreds of years to grow a bog. I started using coco in my soil at up to 25% 2 years ago,and it has been a great medium for use in organic soil.



Michael Huntherz said:


> The weird thing, to me, is that Mr. Read has a recipe for soil that uses quite a bit of coco coir, but no mention is made of coco as a base growing medium. The only mention of it, in either book, is in his soil recipe. Surprising, considering how popular it has become with folks I know. I did a search of the bigger book using the digital magic of Kindle, and the word 'coir' appears once, the string 'coco' appears nowhere.


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## Michael Huntherz (Nov 9, 2016)

pop22 said:


> The coco replaces peat moss as a medium. Peat is not a renewable resource as it take hundreds of years to grow a bog. I started using coco in my soil at up to 25% 2 years ago,and it has been a great medium for use in organic soil.


I like coco for all those reasons, too, I just bought 4 more bags of Tupur today. Dude who wrote that book uses about the same amount you do in his soil recipe.


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## pop22 (Nov 9, 2016)

yea, got to try some of that myself!



Michael Huntherz said:


> I like coco for all those reasons, too, I just bought 4 more bags of Tupur today. Dude who wrote that book uses about the same amount you do in his soil recipe.


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2016)

Hey kids! Here's the Day 28 installment of 'the hallway';


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## Bbcchance (Nov 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey kids! Here's the Day 28 installment of 'the hallway';
> View attachment 3827923 View attachment 3827924


Decking the halls a bit early, but it does look very festive!


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## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Nov 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey kids! Here's the Day 28 installment of 'the hallway';
> View attachment 3827923 View attachment 3827924



you are really dialing them in this time..

what is wattage for those three plants?

hand watered the whole time?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> you are really dialing them in this time..
> 
> what is wattage for those three plants?
> 
> hand watered the whole time?


Thanks, trying a more aggressive defoliation technique.

Each plant gets an actual 900W.

Yes, hand watered daily. I'm about to set up a short cycle timer based system.


----------



## bf80255 (Nov 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey kids! Here's the Day 28 installment of 'the hallway';
> View attachment 3827923 View attachment 3827924


very impressive


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## Afgan King (Nov 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks, trying a more adhesive defoliation technique.
> 
> Each plant gets an actual 900W.
> 
> Yes, hand watered daily. I'm about to set up a short cycle timer based system.


Looking good over there things looking oh whats that word???????......oh ya consistent lol


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## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Nov 11, 2016)

careful defoliation works..you are sockin it to em..i


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## NaturalFarmer (Nov 11, 2016)

These look tight brotherman! Ever tempted to jump into a wall of ripe cannabis to see if you stick? Kinda like those velcro walls!


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## Afgan King (Nov 11, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> careful defoliation works..you are sockin it to em..i


No no no we can't admit it works or even call it defoliation in fear of being attacked lol call it defanning people get all butt hurt trying to say defoliation means removal of all fan leaves.....but it just means removal of fan leaves by force or chemical process


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Looking good over there things looking oh whats that word???????......oh ya consistent lol


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## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Nov 11, 2016)

if you don't fk it up along the way ,you have a good chance of getting some sort of cosmic canna award....


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> if you don't fk it up along the way ,you have a good chance of getting some sort of cosmic canna award....


It's my mantra; 'ohmmmmm, watt can I do to amp up the Yieeeeeeeeld....'


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## Afgan King (Nov 11, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> if you don't fk it up along the way ,you have a good chance of getting some sort of cosmic canna award....


Oh ya he's about to be pulling consistent fire with heavy yields and all of it being consistent. Not a huge 2lb plant here and a 20 oz here and 14 oz there and so on. He'll be pulling 30-32 oz across the board very soon these babies have been getting healthier Everytime I see them. Hell I'll be over there tonight looking at that night side with the lec that are some of the happiest plants I've seen.


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## Afgan King (Nov 11, 2016)

But God damn the Cob side never disappoints lol


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Oh ya he's about to be pulling consistent fire with heavy yields and all of it being consistent. Not a huge 2lb plant here and a 20 oz here and 14 oz there and so on. He'll be pulling 30-32 oz across the board very soon these babies have been getting healthier Everytime I see them. Hell I'll be over there tonight looking at that night side with the lec that are some of the happiest plants I've seen.


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> But God damn the Cob side never disappoints lol


Better than ever now that I got my temperatures where I wanted them.


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## Afgan King (Nov 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Better than ever now that I got my temperatures where I wanted them.


Oh ya and humidity going down as well correct?


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Oh ya and humidity going down as well correct?


Yeah. RH is lower when temperature climbs lol


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## OneHitDone (Nov 11, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Oh ya he's about to be pulling consistent fire with heavy yields and all of it being consistent. Not a huge 2lb plant here and a 20 oz here and 14 oz there and so on. He'll be pulling 30-32 oz across the board very soon these babies have been getting healthier Everytime I see them. Hell I'll be over there tonight looking at that night side with the lec that are some of the happiest plants I've seen.


So basically 2 per light with like a 3 month veg?


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## Afgan King (Nov 11, 2016)

OneHitDone said:


> So basically 2 per light with like a 3 month veg?


Essentially 2lbs for every 900 watts while keeping a low plant count and staying within limits. And able to pull 12lbs every 14 days sounds nice for a personal grow


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## Afgan King (Nov 11, 2016)

The goal here is maximum yield per square ft while being.legal we could run a sog wall and really kill it and pull way faster but be wayyyyyyy over plant count. The goal is to be able to commercially and personally maximize yields within our given limits. 2 a light is what I normally pull with hps but I run 4 plants a light and have a 32 day veg


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## Mohican (Nov 11, 2016)

So many flowers!!!


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## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Nov 12, 2016)

kilo plant hps's ... vertical


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## nevergoodenuf (Nov 12, 2016)

@ttystikk Have you tried the cloth pots? This root ball was in a 3g bag and pulled over 6 ounces.


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## ttystikk (Nov 12, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> kilo plant hps's ... vertical


AWESOME! Let's see the rest of the plant!


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## ttystikk (Nov 12, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> @ttystikk Have you tried the cloth pots? This root ball was in a 3g bag and pulled over 6 ounces.View attachment 3828945


Thinking about them. I'm also thinking about organic soil.


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## nevergoodenuf (Nov 12, 2016)

I love the cloth pots, when you finish a run, just throw them in the laundry. I just switched to organics using Mission line.


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## Fastslappy (Nov 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm also thinking about organic soil.


 I ran O this summer , Wow mucho difference , I'm looking at O sips 
my summer experience with sst's has lead into me going malting 
still gonna do sst's but strategic doses of that stuff & I gotta strain off better indoors , actually need the solids for the worm farm .
1st thing 1st bro start a large worm farm NOW if yer even thinking going all in 'O' 
no finer EWC than Ho'made , & plant some comfrey right now as the crowns are sold only at this time of year


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## ttystikk (Nov 12, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> I ran O this summer , Wow mucho difference , I'm looking at O sips
> my summer experience with sst's has lead into me going malting
> still gonna do sst's but strategic doses of that stuff & I gotta strain off better indoors , actually need the solids for the worm farm .
> 1st thing 1st bro start a large worm farm NOW if yer even thinking going all in 'O'
> no finer EWC than Ho'made , & plant some comfrey right now as the crowns are sold only at this time of year


Comfrey? what for?


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Comfrey? what for?


Its good shit thats why 
http://www.marijuana.com/blog/news/2016/09/grow-guide-enhancing-your-garden-with-comfrey/


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## ttystikk (Nov 12, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Its good shit thats why
> http://www.marijuana.com/blog/news/2016/09/grow-guide-enhancing-your-garden-with-comfrey/


Cliff's Notes version?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 12, 2016)

Yeah condensed one, comfrey is a mainstay in an organic garden. There are countless articles out there. Have seen it work myself so I know its a valuable resource


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 12, 2016)

http://permaculturenews.org/2016/06/03/comfrey-believe-the-hype/


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## ttystikk (Nov 12, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> http://permaculturenews.org/2016/06/03/comfrey-believe-the-hype/


WHATS THE HYPE? 

What does it actually do?


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## Fastslappy (Nov 12, 2016)

It's the highest quality green manure you can get , the only thing u can topdress raw , it's like 20% protein & a slew of goodness as in trace mins /vitamens ,enzymes the like , the best worm food ever
Kobi cattle get fed this


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## Fastslappy (Nov 12, 2016)

it gets a huge tap roots that draw up minerals from deep into the soil that normal plants never get to 
You feed yer comfrey too , bagged sterr manure ,right on top of the crown 
think of it as cleaning the steer shit into green manure goodness


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## ttystikk (Nov 12, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> It's the highest quality green manure you can get , the only thing u can topdress raw , it's like 20% protein & a slew of goodness as in trace mins /vitamens ,enzymes the like , the best worm food ever
> Kobi cattle get fed this


Thank you. Sounds awesome. The recipe I'm seeing says to use peat for the base. Surely it could stand a lil of this too.


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## Fastslappy (Nov 12, 2016)

it's sold fresh in some farmers markets 
a big old leaf is about 12-18" x 6-8" , i think the sell the younger ones for smoothies
grows like rhubarb but no long stem on the leaf ,a really thick like rhubarb on the veins 
they are cool to grow i'll tell ya that , my Irish Terriers like them as well 
get the blocking types or they are invasive when they seed 
i have #4 & 14 russian for links to buy pm me 
the block types are sterile hybrids , propagate by cutting , hence the get them now it's that time of year thingy 
I broke a few roots off a crown & now their up as well in a summer mj pot left outside the gh


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## Fastslappy (Nov 12, 2016)

I got o big bag of organic heirloom corn that's been professionally malted (my _New_ secret sauce)


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## texasjack (Nov 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey kids! Here's the Day 28 installment of 'the hallway';
> View attachment 3827923 View attachment 3827924


Excellent photos. You can see much better here. Beautiful plants.


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## Fastslappy (Nov 12, 2016)

my gro coming up is gonna be a side by side O sips verus G/H Nova,terpinator,rock resinator in my sterilized summer soil ( heavy amended coco ,topdressed as well ) no more amendments to the coco for the Nova gro , i'll do what i normally do last indoor .
the why is , never ran sips let alone indoor organic (i have ran nutes very successfully( , plus takes awhile to get yer soil right for no till
sips are the happy middle ground into no till
I'm a not all eggs are in the same basket/place till it's fine tuned organically
we went full legal the rest of the country will follow 
edit; the biggest reason i want a side by side is i still have $$$ in nutes & i'm sorta on a lean budget , the less it costs me to run this winter the better I can buy seed .
O caan be done very cost effective but rampup takes some time to do on a slim budget 
I heard about a yard of high quality EWC can run over $400.oo a yard


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 12, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> I heard about a yard of high quality EWC can run over $400.oo a yard


But it will pay for itself in spades, why important to get that worm farm going pronto


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## Porky101 (Nov 13, 2016)

Great grow ttystikk, 

I have a question . . . How do you train your plants ? ? Do you just put the plant behind the net and does it naturally grow through toward the light ? ?


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## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Nov 13, 2016)

just remember once you plant comfrey its there to stay


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## ttystikk (Nov 13, 2016)

Porky101 said:


> Great grow ttystikk,
> 
> I have a question . . . How do you train your plants ? ? Do you just put the plant behind the net and does it naturally grow through toward the light ? ?


Things have changed. Now the plant goes in front of the trellis. Yes the plant is trained for the trellis.


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## Porky101 (Nov 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Things have changed. Now the plant goes in front of the trellis. Yes the plant is trained for the trellis.


I don't understand . . . Is the plant in front of the trellis or behind ? Does it grow through . . . I can see you changed from hps to led . . Did that make you change how you trained your plant ? ? 

I'm very interested in how your training your plant . . . I definitely want to try this . . . 

Can you describe in as much detail as you are willing to how you train . . . Step by step . . I have never used a trellis before. . . 

Thanks man


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## ttystikk (Nov 13, 2016)

Grow the plant up, then spread its branches out. Trellis went behind plants long before I switched to LED.

Look up the French term espalier. That's the technique, it's only hundreds of years old lol


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 13, 2016)

hey ty,, just wanted to let u know i bought a centurion pro mini.. i had asked about trimmers for awile and wasted lots of money on bowl trimmers and then a table trimmer.. anyways got the mini yesterday and after pulling all bud off plants,, if i had trimmed all plants by hand like usual it wopuldve taken 3 days with me and my wife spending 5-6 hours each day clipping.. this time took 3 hours getting all bud off into the hopper...then turned on the trimmer and all bud went through in 20 minutes,,,im amazed how well this thing works!!! yes i know trimming by hand is best,,gets best hash and doesnt harm buds,,,but the centurion pro mini saved a shit load of time and buds are trimmed damn near perfectly...i like the wet trimmer,, so i got the wet tumbler when i bought it.. only used it once as i just got it,, but it worked way better than the other trimmers i wasted money on..as of now id say its well worth the $5,500.00 spent...
ill run all the leaf through my bubble bags and get back to you on how well the trim works for hash...


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## nevergoodenuf (Nov 13, 2016)

@Porky101 I have changed half my room to grow like ttystikk.


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## ttystikk (Nov 13, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> @Porky101 I have changed half my room to grow like ttystikk. View attachment 3829706


----------



## Porky101 (Nov 13, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> @Porky101 I have changed half my room to grow like ttystikk. View attachment 3829706



omg I want to do that too!!!

But I cant see where the light is....I mean...you have put your plant in the trellis...but there is not light on the other side? so does it go around back through the trellis to the light??


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## Porky101 (Nov 13, 2016)

ok hold on...I can actually see you are strapping it to the cage...like a prisoner tied up.almost looks like a green "goro" (from Mortal Kombat) tied up..lol...ok I understand how you are using the cage, I thought it was the same as a scrog...I can see now its completely different...awsome stuff!


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## Porky101 (Nov 13, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> @Porky101 I have changed half my room to grow like ttystikk. View attachment 3829706



Do you have a trimming patern you follow?? which stalks to cut?


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## nevergoodenuf (Nov 13, 2016)

The only thing, I think, I do differently, is my fencing is about 8" off the wall. Check my sig to see my room. I don't need to flood ttystikk's thread with my pics. And I don't cut any branches.


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## ttystikk (Nov 13, 2016)

Porky101 said:


> Do you have a trimming patern you follow?? which stalks to cut?





nevergoodenuf said:


> The only thing, I think, I do differently, is my fencing is about 8" off the wall. Check my sig to see my room. I don't need to flood ttystikk's thread with my pics. And I don't cut any branches.


I'm not sure what the best techniques are so I like to see what people do and the results they get.


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## texasjack (Nov 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Grow the plant up, then spread its branches out. Trellis went behind plants long before I switched to LED.
> 
> Look up the French term espalier. That's the technique, it's only hundreds of years old lol


Cool, I didn't know what it was called.


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## ttystikk (Nov 13, 2016)

texasjack said:


> Cool, I didn't know what it was called.


I'm suffering from a bad case of nothing new under the sun lol


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## ttystikk (Nov 13, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I have tossed 10 of each for right now
> 10 Pakistani chitral kush x grape ape
> 10 Pakistani chitral kush x dudes tangie
> 10 Heidi's unicorn made by @RM3
> ...


ALA-KA-ZAM!

Because there is indeed magic in the world and we are the ones who create it.


----------



## pinner420 (Nov 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm suffering from a bad case of nothing new under the sun lol


How's the new cob Web site coming?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2016)

710Knowledge said:


> Trust me you really should


Interesting avatar pic. What is it? I know it's a 12 cylinder engine, but in what vehicle?


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## pop22 (Nov 23, 2016)

I do pretty well with organic soil, and not some fancy mix either.

This was under just cheap burple lights, and pulled 13 oz dry. 20 gallon DIY bottom watered pot:

 





ttystikk said:


> Thinking about them. I'm also thinking about organic soil.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 23, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I do pretty well with organic soil, and not some fancy mix either.
> 
> This was under just cheap burple lights, and pulled 13 oz dry. 20 gallon DIY bottom watered pot:
> 
> View attachment 3838065


looks pretty fukn beautiful! none to shabby huh!


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## THE KONASSURE (Nov 24, 2016)

Had to drop this one here for you and @Yodaweed man  happy thanks giving dudes !


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## ttystikk (Nov 24, 2016)

THE KONASSURE said:


> View attachment 3838501
> 
> Had to drop this one here for you and @Yodaweed man  happy thanks giving dudes !


Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Nov 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


Cheers, y'all!


----------



## horribleherk (Nov 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


just stopped by to wish you & yours a happy thanksgiving


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## pinner420 (Nov 24, 2016)

Happy Thanksgiving my vertical brothers...


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 24, 2016)

THE KONASSURE said:


> View attachment 3838501
> 
> Had to drop this one here for you and @Yodaweed man  happy thanks giving dudes !


Cool pic!


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## DonTesla (Nov 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thinking about them. I'm also thinking about organic soil.


awwwwwwwww sheeeeeeiitt that's my boy!


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## DonTesla (Nov 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yeah. RH is lower when temperature climbs lol


What would you say the temps are that youre liking for the cob side, T?


By the way about comfrey 

_Comfrey contains a “special substance” called allantoin which is responsible for a majority of comfrey’s healing abilities. Allantoin promotes cell regeneration, causing cells to grow faster. Interestingly enough, allantoin is found in the placenta which is the organ responsible for nourishing a growing fetus. This dose of allantoin helps the rapid cell development of fetuses while they’re in the womb._

Cheers,

Tesla


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## DonTesla (Nov 26, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you. Sounds awesome. The recipe I'm seeing says to use peat for the base. Surely it could stand a lil of this too.


Tell me bout your recipe! Are you liking it!?


----------



## DonTesla (Nov 26, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I do pretty well with organic soil, and not some fancy mix either.
> 
> This was under just cheap burple lights, and pulled 13 oz dry. 20 gallon DIY bottom watered pot:
> 
> View attachment 3838065


How long veg and how many watts amigo?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 26, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> What would you say the temps are that youre liking for the cob side, T?
> 
> 
> By the way about comfrey
> ...


So far I'm leaning towards upper 70s/low 80s.


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## ttystikk (Nov 26, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> Tell me bout your recipe! Are you liking it!?


It's in the organic thread, I haven't tried it. The recipe seems pretty straightforward; basically half and half peat and earthworm castings with a handful of bloodmeal for N. The peat gets broken down, releasing co2 in the process.


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## NaturalFarmer (Nov 28, 2016)

Can you build a self watering tote that is 37 gallons? If so that is perfection in my mind.


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> Can you build a self watering tote that is 37 gallons? If so that is perfection in my mind.


Yes, but why so big? I don't want to do no till...


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## NaturalFarmer (Nov 28, 2016)

37 gallons x 4 of soil will give you about 1000 ppm in an 8x8 (old mix). You could spread it out to however many plants you want. I guess I should have just said that. First few weeks probably quite a bit higher.


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## NaturalFarmer (Nov 28, 2016)

My concern on smaller size would be that soil respiration locks up some N and 5 gallons of media may require more fish than I used which may throw everything out of whack. The only reason I say it, is because I don't know.


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> 37 gallons x 4 of soil will give you about 1000 ppm in an 8x8 (old mix). You could spread it out to however many plants you want. I guess I should have just said that. First few weeks probably quite a bit higher.


Ok, I do 6 plants per run so that's like 6 gallons each. I was planning on something like 8-12 gallons per, so that's very doable.


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## pop22 (Nov 28, 2016)

That my friend, is an autoflower!

under 600 true watts of shitty chinese lights lol! 20/4

Soil is:

Base mix 6 gallons
1/3 perlite
1/3 composted manure
1/3 coco coir

Admix: 6 gallons
4gallons black soil

2 cups dry organic nutrient mix ( I use either GrowMore organic soil builder or Kellog's Organic nutrient with chicken manure )
1 cup blood meal
2 cups garden lime
1 cup epsom salts
1 cup azomite
1 cup Kelp meal
1.5 gallons work castings

I use no teas, etc. plain water the entire grow








DonTesla said:


> How long veg and how many watts amigo?


----------



## pop22 (Nov 28, 2016)

mine is 20 gallons, plenty big enough for indoors



NaturalFarmer said:


> Can you build a self watering tote that is 37 gallons? If so that is perfection in my mind.


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## pop22 (Nov 28, 2016)

Ahh, I missed earlier that this was for CO2 production! I have a 10 gallon worm bin I'm going to be testing for CO2 production. I'll bet it puts out a fair amount of CO2. Need a CO2 meter...



NaturalFarmer said:


> 37 gallons x 4 of soil will give you about 1000 ppm in an 8x8 (old mix). You could spread it out to however many plants you want. I guess I should have just said that. First few weeks probably quite a bit higher.


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

I'm at Home Depot right now, getting 10 gallon tubs for a SIPS setup. I'm liking the Tupur but I need to get bigger yield numbers. Unlimited access to water and nutes got me two pounders in the past so I'm doing this to ensure that same availability.


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Have a buddy who just flew to Florida with 21 grams in his carry on. Orlando is decriminalized 21g and under is a ticket so he said fuck it and got no grief. Not first time I've heard of people flying from legal to atleast decriminalized with no issues at all lol he sent me thisView attachment 3763955


And it's med legal now, and soon to be rec legal... well, soon as in a couple years lol


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## Afgan King (Nov 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm at Home Depot right now, getting 10 gallon tubs for a SIPS setup. I'm liking the Tupur but I need to get bigger yield numbers. Unlimited access to water and nutes got me two pounders in the past so I'm doing this to ensure that same availability.


Your using too small of pots lol I veg for 36 days and fill a 7gal no issues. You should just get 10 gallon pots


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## NaturalFarmer (Nov 28, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Ahh, I missed earlier that this was for CO2 production! I have a 10 gallon worm bin I'm going to be testing for CO2 production. I'll bet it puts out a fair amount of CO2. Need a CO2 meter...


Great idea! I might give that a try in a small container.


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Your using too small of pots lol I veg for 36 days and fill a 7gal no issues. You should just get 10 gallon pots


Lol I Just did!


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## pop22 (Nov 28, 2016)

Just like everything gardening, there is a lot of bullshit ( not the good kind.. ) about it and how to use it. I dedicate a lot of time and space to doing all the "don'ts" to see why and what really happens. You can run organic soil a lot hotter than most people think is good. Take any good super soil recipe and double or even triple the nutrients included. Soil that strong, does need to be "cooked" a bit first, a 30-45 days is plenty. 

Because of how organic soil works, it only appears to not produce as much. But all you really need is a bigger pot! Hell, use 50 gallon totes if you wish! I bet the ones you use now will work just fine with a good soil mix.

And here's how my low tech sips is made:
I used a 5" net pot stuffed with rockwool as a wick. I've also stretched a sock filled with coco coir over the pot for a wick. Both work well.

I also use an AIT unit from Modular Hydro. Its a tool to inject air into the moist soil at the bottom. 



   





ttystikk said:


> I'm at Home Depot right now, getting 10 gallon tubs for a SIPS setup. I'm liking the Tupur but I need to get bigger yield numbers. Unlimited access to water and nutes got me two pounders in the past so I'm doing this to ensure that same availability.


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## Afgan King (Nov 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lol I Just did!


Ya I wouldn't do sips personally I mean I've seen 2lb plants in 10 gallon pots running just how we did. Granted its lemon g which gets huge and ugly but still lol I've seen 4.5 a light pulled with gg4 in 7 gallon pots....5 gallon buckets aren't big enough for how your veggin personally I'd do 10 gallons just like u have been and you'll get better results.


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## pop22 (Nov 28, 2016)

I want a pic of 4.5lb of bud under one light!


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I want a pic of 4.5lb of bud under one light!


Me too. I noticed that he didn't say how many plants it took.

My goal is three pounders on one of my panels.


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## whitebb2727 (Nov 28, 2016)

Still looking good. I still follow the thread even if I don't post in it a lot.


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Ya I wouldn't do sips personally I mean I've seen 2lb plants in 10 gallon pots running just how we did. Granted its lemon g which gets huge and ugly but still lol I've seen 4.5 a light pulled with gg4 in 7 gallon pots....5 gallon buckets aren't big enough for how your veggin personally I'd do 10 gallons just like u have been and you'll get better results.


Welllllllll... just in case 10 gallons doesn't have sufficient capacity, the SIPS approach lets the plant pull as much nutrient solution as it wants, whenever it wants it. 

Best of both worlds this way, and I'm hoping this is the way forward to bigger yields.


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Still looking good. I still follow the thread even if I don't post in it a lot.


Thanks, brother- I do try my best to keep things interesting enough to keep checking back, lol


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## whitebb2727 (Nov 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks, brother- I do try my best to keep things interesting enough to keep checking back, lol


I built a 2x2x4 cab to add to my 2x4x6 one. I am shooting for a mini perpetual. The bug has bit me. Thinking of blowing out a whole room.


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Nov 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Welllllllll... just in case 10 gallons doesn't have sufficient capacity, the SIPS approach lets the plant pull as much nutrient solution as it wants, whenever it wants it.
> 
> Best of both worlds this way, and I'm hoping this is the way forward to bigger yields.


Building 45 gallon SIPs for my new room. I'll mention you in a comment when I start that portion of my build. You might find it interesting


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I built a 2x2x4 cab to add to my 2x4x6 one. I am shooting for a mini perpetual. The bug has bit me. Thinking of blowing out a whole room.


Uh oh, it's on now!


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Building 45 gallon SIPs for my new room. I'll mention you in a comment when I start that portion of my build. You might find it interesting


Yeah, I just spent 30 minutes listening to my crew tell me it won't work.


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## Jp.the.pope (Nov 28, 2016)

Won't work period, or unnecessary for the results you're looking for?


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Won't work period, or unnecessary for the results you're looking for?


A. won't work
B. it's more work lol
C. why not just use 10/20/30 gallon pots?

I'm shooting for three pounders, one does not get such yields unless all of the plant's needs are well seen to, all of the time. 

No matter how big the pot is, it's still a guessing game to figure out how much to water. I'd really rather just let plant take all it wants, then I don't have to worry about being the weak link in the chain.


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## pop22 (Nov 28, 2016)

Why is it a guessing game, how much to water? Get the wicks right, no guessing, the medium saturates x percentage and holds. My diy pot worked very well. That auto would have exceeded a pound if I had not had to chop 3 weeks early due to f'n sipermites! 
switch my soil for 20 gallons of coco, I suspect it would be possible to exceed 2 pounds. Maybe even three, I've never contemplated a plant that big indoors.....lol!
Feed the bottom res thru a float valve from a main res so that there is always the same volume in the res below the pot. That's how auto pots work and they are a very effective system because your plants have a continuous supply of nutrients at always the same ppm and ph.
If your going to feed nutrients, skip using soil. 70/30 coco perlite would be what I'd use, its working well in my auto pots. I see no benefit in using soil for anything but organic. 



ttystikk said:


> A. won't work
> B. it's more work lol
> C. why not just use 10/20/30 gallon pots?
> 
> ...


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Why is it a guessing game, how much to water? Get the wicks right, no guessing, the medium saturates x percentage and holds. My diy pot worked very well. That auto would have exceeded a pound if I had not had to chop 3 weeks early due to f'n sipermites!
> switch my soil for 20 gallons of coco, I suspect it would be possible to exceed 2 pounds. Maybe even three, I've never contemplated a plant that big indoors.....lol!
> Feed the bottom res thru a float valve from a main res so that there is always the same volume in the res below the pot. That's how auto pots work and they are a very effective system because your plants have a continuous supply of nutrients at always the same ppm and ph.
> If your going to feed nutrients, skip using soil. 70/30 coco perlite would be what I'd use, its working well in my auto pots. I see no benefit in using soil for anything but organic.


You and I are thinking exactly the same thing.


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## Afgan King (Nov 28, 2016)

Idk why you won't just spend a qp on nutes to get guaranteed results with my system lol the engineer in you wants to adjust it and so did we but craft made 100 million last year on this system lol it's already perfect


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## Afgan King (Nov 28, 2016)

Let me put it this way buddy my partner has had only 4 crops this year and brought in over 240k... nutrient cost 8k for the year......if you just give in to me all the way temps humidity everything you would be slaying it bigger and better easy I have no doubts of this I have 20 plants 8 different strains in here all 100% fed same nutrient schedule no difference except the physical amount they drink all the same strength and I never burn.....ever you know this you know what I pull down you know the numbers and rhe quality on everything in the room nothing doesn't hit. Please give me one run with canna in flower on 1 led rack and I will bet whatever you like you'll destroy your record guaranteed. I don't even burn cookies with the same nutes that make gg4 and the og kush happy. This system is flawless if you give into it. I know you love your dry nutes but that schedule isn't as good as this one


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Let me put it this way buddy my partner has had only 4 crops this year and brought in over 240k... nutrient cost 8k for the year......if you just give in to me all the way temps humidity everything you would be slaying it bigger and better easy I have no doubts of this I have 20 plants 8 different strains in here all 100% fed same nutrient schedule no difference except the physical amount they drink all the same strength and I never burn.....ever you know this you know what I pull down you know the numbers and rhe quality on everything in the room nothing doesn't hit. Please give me one run with canna in flower on 1 led rack and I will bet whatever you like you'll destroy your record guaranteed. I don't even burn cookies with the same nutes that make gg4 and the og kush happy. This system is flawless if you give into it. I know you love your dry nutes but that schedule isn't as good as this one View attachment 3841451


Dood, what is your biggest plant from one of those buckets? my best is 20 zips. From a five gallon bucket. I'm just not buying the story that there's a problem with my nutes!

I'm not knocking your style, it works great. But your return per square foot of floor space isn't on par with what I'm doing, either. But am I on your thread telling you to 'give in'? Nope.

Different strokes. Speaking of which, includes different lighting. You're running under SE HPS, a proven setup. My job isn't to just recreate what's been done, but to find ways to improve on it. Often, that means pushing things to see how far they'll go, occasionally even to the breaking point.

BTW, how many square feet does your partner run to get those numbers?


----------



## Afgan King (Nov 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dood, what is your biggest plant from one of those buckets? my best is 20 zips. From a five gallon bucket. I'm just not buying the story that there's a problem with my nutes!
> 
> I'm not knocking your style, it works great. But your return per square foot of floor space isn't on par with what I'm doing, either. But am I on your thread telling you to 'give in'? Nope.
> 
> ...


20' x 20' and I'm not knocking your style but there's things in canna that you don't use and the ratios are different we know that cuz they burn at 2.7ec for you but not at 4 ec for me. I've never knocked your style I love the vertical I just know how you can do more. We're pulling about the same per watt correct?


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## Afgan King (Nov 28, 2016)

I just don't get how nutes are the spot you wanna stay cheapest at when they really aren't that expensive and you dropped like grands on grands on everything else. And it could be guaranteed consistent Everytime.


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> I just don't get how nutes are the spot you wanna stay cheapest at when they really aren't that expensive and you dropped like grands on grands on everything else. And it could be guaranteed consistent Everytime.


Looks like it's time for a good old game of head to head, eh? We can run it for a cycle and see for ourselves!


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## Afgan King (Nov 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Looks like it's time for a good old game of head to head, eh? We can run it for a cycle and see for ourselves!


Yessir January I'll buy you a round of nutes and run a rack how I want for a good ole grow off. I don't want u to get jealous when I only have to see them every other day or every third


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## ttystikk (Nov 28, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Yessir January I'll buy you a round of nutes and run a rack how I want for a good ole grow off. I don't want u to get jealous when I only have to see them every other day or every third


In the meantime it is agreed that we shitcan the 5 gallon buckets and run 10 gallon tubs from here on out. 

Gonna try that SIPS setup to help yields and reduce workload.


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## Afgan King (Nov 28, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> In the meantime it is agreed that we shitcan the 5 gallon buckets and run 10 gallon tubs from here on out.
> 
> Gonna try that SIPS setup to help yields and reduce workload.


Yup said it at the beginning lol I knew too small cuz i fill 7 gals and no where near the size of yours. Not a huge fan of sips but we'll get the side by side


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## Bbcchance (Nov 29, 2016)

Will this comparative be on a separate thread?


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## pop22 (Nov 29, 2016)

8k on nutes? So you buy into the nutrient bullshit companies hand out? Its all NPK and 17 micros. Put it in a bottle that's 92% water, for 20times what its worth,. Show me what's worthwhile in bottled nutes that aren't in dry nutes. Its all over priced bullshit designed to grow the companies bank account bigger and your wallet smaller

ands what does this mean, "there's things in canna that you don't use"??? That statement is meaningless without explanation.




Afgan King said:


> I just don't get how nutes are the spot you wanna stay cheapest at when they really aren't that expensive and you dropped like grands on grands on everything else. And it could be guaranteed consistent Everytime.



TTY's got it right, don't piss away money on shit you don't need!



Afgan King said:


> Let me put it this way buddy my partner has had only 4 crops this year and brought in over 240k... nutrient cost 8k for the year......if you just give in to me all the way temps humidity everything you would be slaying it bigger and better easy I have no doubts of this I have 20 plants 8 different strains in here all 100% fed same nutrient schedule no difference except the physical amount they drink all the same strength and I never burn.....ever you know this you know what I pull down you know the numbers and rhe quality on everything in the room nothing doesn't hit. Please give me one run with canna in flower on 1 led rack and I will bet whatever you like you'll destroy your record guaranteed. I don't even burn cookies with the same nutes that make gg4 and the og kush happy. This system is flawless if you give into it. I know you love your dry nutes but that schedule isn't as good as this one View attachment 3841451


----------



## DesertHydro (Nov 29, 2016)

i like my powders. won't ever go back. Growmau5 did a side by side with jacks 3/2/1 and some other brand with all their additives and there was ONLY A 2 GRAM DIFFERENCE. im happy with it. it's economical and my plants seem to like it. there might be better out there, but i would think the difference is minimal.


----------



## Afgan King (Nov 29, 2016)

pop22 said:


> 8k on nutes? So you buy into the nutrient bullshit companies hand out? Its all NPK and 17 micros. Put it in a bottle that's 92% water, for 20times what its worth,. Show me what's worthwhile in bottled nutes that aren't in dry nutes. Its all over priced bullshit designed to grow the companies bank account bigger and your wallet smaller
> 
> ands what does this mean, "there's things in canna that you don't use"??? That statement is meaningless without explanation.
> 
> ...


On shit you don't need? Do you feed over 60+ strains the same nutrient mix without any burn? I run forum cookies bubba kush all ogs on the same schedule I'll run with gg4, lemon g, and other huge yielder that can take whatever nutes you give em. My room never has 1 leaf with a deficiency period. I never have to check my ec it's already set even feeding cookies at 2500 ppm or ec 5 no ill effects. Idk bout u but I watch everyone has issues. And wtf is 8k to make a quarter million. You can't be any good at business if spending 8k to make a quarter million is too much for u. Craft made 100 million and spent 100,000 on nutes in one year... That's nothing means nothing and i can run any strain on the same schedule and get it to bang out at its best. Say what you want but its consistent and works for every strain and never have to 2nd guess. Sorry that a lil bit of money on nutes scares you too much oh god 500$ to run 40 plants start to finish over 100 days each.....but ya wayyyyy to much money cuz i mean not like our shit doesn't sell in like week 6 of flowering....oh wait it does it always does. Again I do this for a living I understand i am feeding salts but your saltwater unlike mine doesn't have the same microbials and you don't run an enzyme or anything. I run a basic 5 part system.....oooooh scary


----------



## Afgan King (Nov 29, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> i like my powders. won't ever go back. Growmau5 did a side by side with jacks 3/2/1 and some other brand with all their additives and there was ONLY A 2 GRAM DIFFERENCE. im happy with it. it's economical and my plants seem to like it. there might be better out there, but i would think the difference is minimal.


That's not this schedule tho we pull more per light than nayone I know over tons of lights. How many people u know pulling 2.47 a light over 14 lights? I mean largest indoor personal grow ive seen and i know of two other 100 light warehouses in Denver that run same system and pull 10-15lbs a week. Keep your salts keep your headache I'll keep not thinking and neve have an issue ever because I'm willing to pay for a lil thing called peace of mind. That means more to me than others saying im an idiot cuz i use bottled nutes. I like being able to have a friend feed and not having a worry in the world about messing up cuz if he can't do basic math and he it ph's itself Everytime and ec always perfect.


----------



## DesertHydro (Nov 29, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> That's not this schedule tho we pull more per light than nayone I know over tons of lights. How many people u know pulling 2.47 a light over 14 lights? I mean largest indoor personal grow ive seen and i know of two other 100 light warehouses in Denver that run same system and pull 10-15lbs a week. Keep your salts keep your headache I'll keep not thinking and neve have an issue ever because I'm willing to pay for a lil thing called peace of mind. That means more to me than others saying im an idiot cuz i use bottled nutes. I like being able to have a friend feed and not having a worry in the world about messing up cuz if he can't do basic math and he it ph's itself Everytime and ec always perfect.


headache? what headache? i dont change my res but once, maybe twice the ENTIRE grow. veg and bloom. my pH is stable as hell and all i have to do is add either plain water more nutrient solution in to balance the ec. ive run multiple strains at the same time but i dont really anymore. i prefer to monocrop as im just a hardcore hobbyist lol. 

im sure your shit is awesome and works great, as shown by your badass photos. props to you. when you are making that much money a crop you can buy whatever nutrients you want haha. i am a one man show so i try to keep it KISS as i can. i would love to get to where you are at with it but at the same time i prefer the solo thing most the time.


----------



## Afgan King (Nov 29, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> headache? what headache? i dont change my res but once, maybe twice the ENTIRE grow. veg and bloom. my pH is stable as hell and all i have to do is add either plain water more nutrient solution in to balance the ec. ive run multiple strains at the same time but i dont really anymore. i prefer to monocrop as im just a hardcore hobbyist lol.
> 
> im sure your shit is awesome and works great, as shown by your badass photos. props to you. when you are making that much money a crop you can buy whatever nutrients you want haha. i am a one man show so i try to keep it KISS as i can. i would love to get to where you are at with it but at the same time i prefer the solo thing most the time.


And i get that cuz like you said personal grower. But when you take care of hundreds of plants a day have have to mix up hundreds of gallons every other day it makes it real easy to mix up one big Rez feed 50+ different strains all the same mix. I can tell u right now no one else is pushing cookies over ec4 but I do with no ill effects at all. There comes a point where where it's just easier. Plus I can have someone with no grow experience at all mix up my nutes and feed them and can give instructions over the phone to someone who's never done it and they do just fine. I've watched people on their first time ever growing with 20+ lights pull a gpw just following my schedule. If that's simple and easy idk what is. There is no deficiency or burn ever schedule is never wrong for any plant period. Plus again it has active living microbes in two parts of their 5 part system.


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## ttystikk (Nov 30, 2016)

Calling all Gorilla lovers; got a monster Star Glue in da house!


----------



## Bbcchance (Nov 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Calling all Gorilla lovers; got a monster Star Glue in da house!
> View attachment 3842797 View attachment 3842798 View attachment 3842799


 I'm down!


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## Afgan King (Nov 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Calling all Gorilla lovers; got a monster Star Glue in da house!
> View attachment 3842797 View attachment 3842798 View attachment 3842799


Ya buddy looking good that's a beasty plant


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

Same plant, edge on;


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## ilam (Dec 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Same plant, edge on;
> View attachment 3843265


Holy shit what a monster. Is that growing in a 5gallon? am i getting the scale right?


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

ilam said:


> Holy shit what a monster. Is that growing in a 5gallon? am i getting the scale right?


Yes, that's a very overfull 5 gallon Homer bucket. The trellis panel itself is 6' tall with 4" squares.


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## bf80255 (Dec 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Calling all Gorilla lovers; got a monster Star Glue in da house!
> View attachment 3842797 View attachment 3842798 View attachment 3842799


Fuckin killin it man!!


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## ttystikk (Dec 2, 2016)

Ode To A Grow

Very nice plant, the shape's a light sail.

But what counts is the tale of the scale.

Mind now don't ya bail, or tell us a whale.

Or we'll howl and rail and we'll hoot and wail!

And mercilessly troll you like hail~



I recognized that strain... It's a Longfellow!


----------



## Bbcchance (Dec 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ode To A Grow
> 
> Very nice plant, the shape's a light sail.
> 
> ...


You getting into that blue dream?


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 2, 2016)

Bbcchance said:


> You getting into that blue dream?


Nah, just another hillbilly hobby.


----------



## Bbcchance (Dec 2, 2016)

I whittle


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 2, 2016)

I'm gonna smoke two joints; one before dinner and one after!


----------



## Bbcchance (Dec 2, 2016)

Nice, it's 9 pm here, just polished off my first, #2 on deck for later


----------



## Afgan King (Dec 2, 2016)

Shoot I'm on blunt like 10 for the day lol had my partner over all day working had to take a bunch of safety meetings


----------



## Dirty White Boy (Dec 2, 2016)

Killer stuff ttystikk! How ya been man?


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## ttystikk (Dec 2, 2016)

I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints, and then I feel all right!


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## ttystikk (Dec 2, 2016)

Dirty White Boy said:


> Killer stuff ttystikk! How ya been man?


HOLY FUCK, whare the hell have you been all this time?!


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## Dirty White Boy (Dec 2, 2016)

Well, it's been a wild past couple years. went from jail to a farm down in Texas to. Manitou springs up to jackman maine, spent a couple months in a psych hospital. Now I'm just floating aimlessly trying to find something. Made it back into Colorado, but the whole ex-wife telling all my friends and family I died kinda fucked shit up for me. So I've just stayed away I pop up here and there, set up some killer greenhouses up in Maine. But chemistry was all off with the group, and I'm not big on crossing into other countries with weed so I hit the Appalachian trail for a few months hitch hiked back here to Colorado. You know same ole same ole lmfao.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 3, 2016)

Dirty White Boy said:


> Well, it's been a wild past couple years. went from jail to a farm down in Texas to. Manitou springs up to jackman maine, spent a couple months in a psych hospital. Now I'm just floating aimlessly trying to find something. Made it back into Colorado, but the whole ex-wife telling all my friends and family I died kinda fucked shit up for me. So I've just stayed away I pop up here and there, set up some killer greenhouses up in Maine. But chemistry was all off with the group, and I'm not big on crossing into other countries with weed so I hit the Appalachian trail for a few months hitch hiked back here to Colorado. You know same ole same ole lmfao.


Well at least you got some exercise lol

Glad to hear you're still kicking, for sure. I remember the mess your ex made for you.


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## Dirty White Boy (Dec 3, 2016)

Thanks bro. I'm really impressed with your verticals that's gnarly. You'll be able to hit 3lbs fairly easily the rate your going.


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## ttystikk (Dec 3, 2016)

Dirty White Boy said:


> Thanks bro. I'm really impressed with your verticals that's gnarly. You'll be able to hit 3lbs fairly easily the rate your going.


Thanks, man. 

I ran those DWB seeds years ago and they were fucking loaded with herms. I just tossed the whole lot and went back to clone only, lol


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## ttystikk (Dec 3, 2016)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Building 45 gallon SIPs for my new room. I'll mention you in a comment when I start that portion of my build. You might find it interesting


I'm waiting!


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## Dirty White Boy (Dec 3, 2016)

Yea I ran out about 250-300 of them. Found the same thing. Made some f2's same thing. you couldn't imagine my confusement when I got out and had my friend come to me and say did you know you died and motarebel made a strain in your honor......totally stunned. Tried to hop back in where I left off but I was written off and passed by. So eh, not gunna stop me from doing what I love, just with different people in different places. 

Anyway so sip? It's like hempy/wicking mats hybrid.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 3, 2016)

Dirty White Boy said:


> Yea I ran out about 250-300 of them. Found the same thing. Made some f2's same thing. you couldn't imagine my confusement when I got out and had my friend come to me and say did you know you died and motarebel made a strain in your honor......totally stunned. Tried to hop back in where I left off but I was written off and passed by. So eh, not gunna stop me from doing what I love, just with different people in different places.
> 
> Anyway so sip? It's like hempy/wicking mats hybrid.


It's a soil wicking approach, yes. My plan is to gain the advantages both of stability and vigor in soil and unlimited access to water of RDWC. 

But you know about plans, lol


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## Odin* (Dec 3, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> ... But when you take care of hundreds of plants a day have have to mix up hundreds of gallons every other day it makes it real easy to mix up one big Rez feed 50+ different strains all the same mix.



Exactly. I don't think many realize the difficulties in maintaining a large "farm".

I can admit that I have some bottles. Consider metabolism, I see it like this; The environment is like hitting the gym, stimulates (or stagnates) the metabolism. A healthy balanced medium and amendments is akin to a well rounded diet. Bottled nutes are similar to taking vitamins/sports supplements, not that all encompassed are healthy sources, but many are. 

A combo of healthy soil, natural amendments, and bottled supplements, has netted the best outcome (for me).


----------



## Afgan King (Dec 3, 2016)

Odin* said:


> Exactly. I don't think many realize the difficulties in maintaining a large "farm".
> 
> I can admit that I have some bottles. Consider metabolism, I see it like this; The environment is like hitting the gym, stimulates (or stagnates) the metabolism. A healthy balanced medium and amendments is akin to a well rounded diet. Bottled nutes are similar to taking vitamins/sports supplements, not that all encompassed are healthy sources, but many are.
> 
> A combo of healthy soil, natural amendments, and bottled supplements, has netted the best outcome (for me).


Oh I could see that being nice lol people also misconstrue that you cant run organics and synthetics together...which is what I do now wettable mycos and that shit jumps growth like crazy makes the plants uptake faster and more efficient and I do it every feed in flower


----------



## Odin* (Dec 3, 2016)

@Afgan King Winning combo.


----------



## DesertHydro (Dec 3, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Oh I could see that being nice lol people also misconstrue that you cant run organics and synthetics together...which is what I do now wettable mycos and that shit jumps growth like crazy makes the plants uptake faster and more efficient and I do it every feed in flower


I was always under the impression that you couldn't run them together. Which mucks are you running? I wanna try some out


----------



## DesertHydro (Dec 3, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> I was always under the impression that you couldn't run them together. Which mucks are you running? I wanna try some out


Or not that you couldn't but it wouldn't benefit


----------



## Afgan King (Dec 3, 2016)

Odin* said:


> @Afgan King Winning combo.


By a mile and costs like 60$ for all 9 weeks of flower per room. Wayyyyyyy cheaper than rhizotonic which I've been trying to repla


DesertHydro said:


> Or not that you couldn't but it wouldn't benefit


Only doesn't benefit if you get salt buildup. I use tupur never get salt buildup has a compost already in it stays inoculated easy even get lil mushrooms and cloves in the tupur growing randomly lol extreme gardening mycos wp


----------



## Odin* (Dec 4, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> ...run organics and synthetics together...





Odin* said:


> Winning combo.





DesertHydro said:


> I was always under the impression that you couldn't run them together.





DesertHydro said:


> Or not that you couldn't but it wouldn't benefit





Afgan King said:


> Only doesn't benefit if you get salt buildup.




...and that chain is complete.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2016)

Today's pic is of the same cut of Star Glue, the one on the left was grown under 860W CDM Allstart lamps and the right side was grown under CXB3590 3500K. Total watts per square foot were roughly equivalent:


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Today's pic is of the same cut of Star Glue, the one on the left was grown under 860W CDM Allstart lamps and the right side was grown under CXB3590 3500K. Total watts per square foot were roughly equivalent:
> View attachment 3845609


It's hard to tell but is the left a bit fuller tty? Is there a color difference as well or is just the pic?


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> It's hard to tell but is the left a bit fuller tty? Is there a color difference as well or is just the pic?


The left plant is fluffier and yes that's a difference in color as well. 

I'll get yield numbers when they're ready.


----------



## Bbcchance (Dec 4, 2016)

The 3590 side looks a week farther along, calyxs are fuller, hairs look more recessed, leaves farther in fade too, bet it's way heavier also


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 4, 2016)

Oh and I forgot ......Nice!!!!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2016)

Bbcchance said:


> The 3590 side looks a week farther along, calyxs are fuller, hairs look more recessed, leaves farther in fade too, bet it's way heavier also


I'd agree with all of that, except the COB LED side is almost two weeks YOUNGER than the plant on the left at 7 vs nearly 9 weeks for the CDM lit specimen. Amazing! Same cut, same room, the only difference is lighting.


----------



## Jah Earth Collective (Dec 5, 2016)

Looking good @ttystikk


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 5, 2016)

Looking good brother @ttystikk . Oh fuck I just said that LMFAO. Confusing myself hahahaha


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Looking good brother @ttystikk . Oh fuck I just said that LMFAO. Confusing myself hahahaha


Gotcha, thanks!


----------



## DesertHydro (Dec 5, 2016)

whats the cross in that star glue? im growing something from exotic called "future" and its gg4 x starfighter f2. are these the same or similar?


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> whats the cross in that star glue? im growing something from exotic called "future" and its gg4 x starfighter f2. are these the same or similar?


Star bud x gg4 is my best guess. It's tasty!


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 5, 2016)

Star bud is listed at Leafly as having a chemical smell, does that translate to taste?
Im still reeling from my Jack with that nasty chemical smell/taste.
Anytime I read chemical now I get weary


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Star bud is listed at Leafly as having a chemical smell, does that translate to taste?
> Im still reeling from my Jack with that nasty chemical smell/taste.
> Anytime I read chemical now I get weary


It's not my favorite tasting strain, I prefer citrus and fruity flavors, but it doesn't smell like burnt plastic or anything like that.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's not my favorite tasting strain, I prefer citrus and fruity flavors, but it doesn't smell like burnt plastic or anything like that.


Fruity is def my fave also, but I grew A clone Labelled Raccals' OG that tasted really great, best kush or OG or whatever Ive had


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 6, 2016)

It's a Mother's Tongue morning;
  
Not the biggest plant I've ever grown, but frosty asf!


----------



## Michiganjesse (Dec 6, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Just like everything gardening, there is a lot of bullshit ( not the good kind.. ) about it and how to use it. I dedicate a lot of time and space to doing all the "don'ts" to see why and what really happens. You can run organic soil a lot hotter than most people think is good. Take any good super soil recipe and double or even triple the nutrients included. Soil that strong, does need to be "cooked" a bit first, a 30-45 days is plenty.
> 
> Because of how organic soil works, it only appears to not produce as much. But all you really need is a bigger pot! Hell, use 50 gallon totes if you wish! I bet the ones you use now will work just fine with a good soil mix.
> 
> ...


How do you set up the 2 buckets with ait can you show a picture or explain exactly how you do it. i have some but don't like them just in the dirt wasn't impressed


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 6, 2016)

Crazy Plant Ttystick!


----------



## DonTesla (Dec 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'd agree with all of that, except the COB LED side is almost two weeks YOUNGER than the plant on the left at 7 vs nearly 9 weeks for the CDM lit specimen. Amazing! Same cut, same room, the only difference is lighting.


Yo Tystikk! NICE walls amigo! Recently started running my lights vertically so figured i should follow your thread! Plus I'm coming down to the states to visit the big boys in CO!
Did you say your led cob side is outperforming your (CMH)/CDM side and its 2 weeks ahead!?

What are your thoughts on this?
Are you gonna be doing some more COB work? 

What kinda light you rocking anyway, brotha?

Cheers,
DonTesla


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 7, 2016)

The COB is outperforming and its 2 weeks behind the CMH....Its a ttystikk custom build out


----------



## DonTesla (Dec 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> The COB is outperforming and its 2 weeks behind the CMH....Its a ttystikk custom build out


Ohhhh, berryNice, a custom build, this jus got even better.

and ah sweet thats what i thought i read (2 weeks less but outperforming)

@DonBrennon
@DonPetro


----------



## NaturalFarmer (Dec 7, 2016)

Thought these may interest you. I have a love for orchards. Scion anyone?


----------



## NaturalFarmer (Dec 7, 2016)

I am curious if the arcure method above would work with grafted stems.Bear with me here...... I use a product called parafilm tape for grafting apples. It is a stretchy plastic tape that seals itself yet disintegrates as the plant grows larger. So if you look above photo of the Arcure method, take 9 branches (not counting that one side twig.) and graft three per rootstalk, you could fill up a wall in much much less time. No?

I guess maybe this really wouldn't save you any time, but maybe allow you to gain height quicker. this may make not make sense to me in an hour.

https://www.amazon.com/Parafilm®-Grafting-Tape-Genuine-Clear/dp/B0085OFNZK


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 7, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> View attachment 3847842 View attachment 3847843 View attachment 3847844 View attachment 3847845
> Thought these may interest you. I have a love for orchards. Scion anyone?


That's how I run my girls on the trellis, espalier.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 7, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> I am curious if the arcure method above would work with grafted stems.Bear with me here...... I use a product called parafilm tape for grafting apples. It is a stretchy plastic tape that seals itself yet disintegrates as the plant grows larger. So if you look above photo of the Arcure method, take 9 branches (not counting that one side twig.) and graft three per rootstalk, you could fill up a wall in much much less time. No?
> 
> I guess maybe this really wouldn't save you any time, but maybe allow you to gain height quicker. this may make not make sense to me in an hour.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Parafilm®-Grafting-Tape-Genuine-Clear/dp/B0085OFNZK


I'll have a good look. Even if it doesn't seem applicable- I won't know until I look it over, I appreciate the additional perspective, thank you!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2016)

Somewhere there's a herd of donkeys missing their dicks;
  
Star Glue, 56 days.


----------



## GroErr (Dec 8, 2016)

Vertical donkey dicks, nice! Cheers, stellar as always  You likin the COBs ttystick? lol


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Vertical donkey dicks, nice! Cheers, stellar as always  You likin the COBs ttystick? lol


Oh, yeah.

Ree-DICK-ulous!

Best horticultural lighting I've ever had the pleasure of using, _sunlight included_.


----------



## dannyboy602 (Dec 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Somewhere there's a herd of donkeys missing their dicks;
> View attachment 3848688 View attachment 3848689 View attachment 3848690
> Star Glue, 56 days.


that's the nicest espaliered Cannabis plant I've ever seen.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2016)

dannyboy602 said:


> that's the nicest espaliered Cannabis plant I've ever seen.


Thank you, practice makes performance.

I know better than to ever claim perfection; no only would it be arrogantly incorrect, but the implication would be that there's nothing to improve and wouldn't that be boring?

And to think you banned me? tsk, tsk...


----------



## dannyboy602 (Dec 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you, practice makes performance.
> 
> I know better than to ever claim perfection; no only would it be arrogantly incorrect, but the implication would be that there's nothing to improve and wouldn't that be boring?
> 
> And to think you banned me? tsk, tsk...


Funny how all the good things I have ever done and most ppl only ever remember the few bad things. That was definitely a bad day.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2016)

dannyboy602 said:


> Funny how all the good things I have ever done and most ppl only ever remember the few bad things. That was definitely a bad day.


Let's just say it was impossible to ignore.

How about bury the hatchet right here and move forward as friends, what do you say?


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 8, 2016)

That is a sight to see when you show the whole plant in one picture, then show closer pics for perspective.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> That is a sight to see when you show the whole plant in one picture, then show closer pics for perspective.


That's really the hardest thing about taking pictures of them; the perspective tricks the eye into thinking they're a lot smaller than they really are. 

Those are 4" squares on the trellis, three squares make a foot. That's a standard 5 gallon bucket underneath and yet somehow it looks like only two, lol


----------



## dannyboy602 (Dec 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Let's just say it was impossible to ignore.
> 
> How about bury the hatchet right here and move forward as friends, what do you say?


done and done.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 8, 2016)

dannyboy602 said:


> done and done.


Awww that's nice .


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Awww that's nice .


Donkey dicks for peace, y'all saw it here first!


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 9, 2016)

How was the overall taste and aroma after switching from rdwc to tupur?


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> How was the overall taste and aroma after switching from rdwc to tupur?


Pinner is that your girl in the pic?
I hope not so I dont feel bad staring at the pic lol!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> How was the overall taste and aroma after switching from rdwc to tupur?


Nothing discernable, I'm using the same nutes. 

The BIG flavor/quality difference is between light bulbs and LED.


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 9, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Pinner is that your girl in the pic?
> I hope not so I dont feel bad staring at the pic lol!


One of them... I just need a red head now.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Nothing discernable, I'm using the same nutes.
> 
> The BIG flavor/quality difference is between light bulbs and LED.


Do you think using a large carbon filter as an intake will kill smell and taste?


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> One of them... I just need a red head now.


Nice


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 9, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Nice


 got 3 blonds.. this one is the freek.


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 9, 2016)

Are you using compost tea at all?


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Are you using compost tea at all?


Are you asking me or ttystickk?


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 9, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Are you asking me or ttystickk?


Chime in.. I just got a humball for making 4 gallon batches been putting it as a top dress on my tupur run. 
.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Chime in.. I just got a humball for making 4 gallon batches been putting it as a top dress on my tupur run.
> .


I run organic, and strong so I dont usually need to add anything.
As a matter of fact Im burning this run a lil as its too strong.
I am new to organic and am prolly adding too much to re ammend


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 9, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I run organic, and strong so I dont usually need to add anything.
> As a matter of fact Im burning this run a lil as its too strong.
> I am new to organic and am prolly adding too much to re ammend


Would the additional microbes assist in this situation?


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 9, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Do you think using a large carbon filter as an intake will kill smell and taste?


Only if it puts an electrostatic charge in the air, and I don't see how a carbon filter would do that.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Are you using compost tea at all?


I definitely need to, and I should get mycos as well. I run my nute strength pretty low so I don't think I'd kill my microherd.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Would the additional microbes assist in this situation?


If forced to guess, I'd say don't do it; the additional bennies would accelerate the process, thereby making things even hotter in the short term! 

That said, I'm a noob when it comes to organics. If my logic is wrong or incomplete here, I welcome correction.


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If forced to guess, I'd say don't do it; the additional bennies would accelerate the process, thereby making things even hotter in the short term!
> 
> That said, I'm a noob when it comes to organics. If my logic is wrong or incomplete here, I welcome correction.


Ya dicey.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Would the additional microbes assist in this situation?


I add lots of mycos, not brewed though just with roots every transplant and on top every 3rd watering


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Only if it puts an electrostatic charge in the air, and I don't see how a carbon filter would do that.


I thought the carbon dust might be getting o the plants and neutralizing the cannabinoids possibly.
It seems to make a smell in the room, I cant vent exhaust out since I rent and owner is i the attic all the time for some reason.
This means the carbon is in my lungs and gives me dry nose and headache I believe.


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 9, 2016)

Mix steel oats in with humis soil let fungal Web build 5 days. then...


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 9, 2016)

I see a great deal on some MW drivers but gotta buy a dozen.
HLG-185H-48A.
Perfect for the new 50V cobs.
$450 shipped for the dozen!
I would only need a few though...group buy?


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Mix steel oats in with humis soil let fungal Web build 5 days. then... View attachment 3849644


Thats a LOT of tea

Or is this an organic soil mix, just add base soil?


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 9, 2016)

My buddy has a Geo tea brewer.. sorry edit that goes in the heart of the tea brewer . ...


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2016)

Sonic Screwdriver, only 43 days and already stooooopid frosty. Pic in the dark to give some idea;


----------



## taita (Dec 10, 2016)

mind blown twice in an hour i am.

QUOTE="ttystikk, post: 13198883, member: 324297"]Sonic Screwdriver, only 43 days and already stooooopid frosty. Pic in the dark to give some idea;
View attachment 3850419 View attachment 3850421 View attachment 3850422[/QUOTE]


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2016)

taita said:


> mind blown twice in an hour i am.
> 
> QUOTE="ttystikk, post: 13198883, member: 324297"]Sonic Screwdriver, only 43 days and already stooooopid frosty. Pic in the dark to give some idea;
> View attachment 3850419 View attachment 3850421 View attachment 3850422


[/QUOTE]

The best parts? These plants pull up to two pounds each, take up less than 6 sq ft of floor space and I grow them with 900W or less.


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sonic Screwdriver, only 43 days and already stooooopid frosty. Pic in the dark to give some idea;
> View attachment 3850419 View attachment 3850421 View attachment 3850422


WHOA!!!


----------



## taita (Dec 10, 2016)

The best parts? These plants pull up to two pounds each, take up less than 6 sq ft of floor space and I grow them with 900W or less.[/QUOTE]

Im sold on the donkeys dick. Full cycle growing is totally up my alley. 
Ive been lurking on and off riu for 6 months figuring how to best get started.
Im constrained by a lack of local growing culture/knowledge, climate and my obsessiveness for starting right and over abundance of local resin.
Mars because of its mighty marketing was the hook. Thankfully just as I was about pull the trigger on blurple I stumbled on cob arrays and spent time educating myself. I postponed my decision thinking the upgrade to cxb 3590 was around the corner. The high efficiency and passive cooling was a big incentive. So after fiddling around and growing tomatoes and other random stuff for 6 months outdoors I somewhat familiarised myself with training and response of plants. been growing other stuff outside for years but im sure its not the same.
After giving up hope of the upgrade i logged on after months today to finalise my decision and place my order when the christmas miracle of quantum boards with samsung lm 561c diodes unfolds. more efficiency, passive cooling and uniform spread. Now i need to figure how to get some and make them work for me.
starting work study on organic soil lessons now.
Cant wait for the espalier part. Havent even gotten to the part where i can worry about strains and yeilds yet. phew
thank you for putting your stuff up, its motivating.


----------



## NaturalFarmer (Dec 10, 2016)

Thought this article may interest you. I don't think you use pin fins but thought this may fit into the vertical world nicely. My appologies if you have seen this already.
*
"Ever wondered what the effect would be of tilting you LED spot light design over a certain angle with respect to thermal behavior?"
*
*http://www.led-heatsink.com/Why_Pin_Fin_LED_coolers_perform_better_under_tilted_position.html*


----------



## Afgan King (Dec 10, 2016)

Mycos every feeding in flower even all the way up to ec 4.2 plants love it lol


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> Thought this article may interest you. I don't think you use pin fins but thought this may fit into the vertical world nicely. My appologies if you have seen this already.
> *
> "Ever wondered what the effect would be of tilting you LED spot light design over a certain angle with respect to thermal behavior?"
> *
> *http://www.led-heatsink.com/Why_Pin_Fin_LED_coolers_perform_better_under_tilted_position.html*


Cliffs Notes version; turning heat sinks upright takes advantage of convective cooling and so they run cooler than fixtures mounted horizontally. 

Yep yep!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Mycos every feeding in flower even all the way up to ec 4.2 plants love it lol


Interesting. What kind of mycos? Do you activate them in a tea first?


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 10, 2016)

I never hard of this strain, but sounds interesting.
I guess you have the Timewreck pheno as that ones is said to be taller?
Have you flowered this strain before?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 10, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I never hard of this strain, but sounds interesting.
> I guess you have the Timewreck pheno as that ones is said to be taller?
> Have you flowered this strain before?


Its from Odie Diesel and his boys at Homegrown Natural Wonders (Dr Who, Quantum Kush, Professor Chaos, Mickey Kush, etc)


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 10, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Its from Odie Diesel and his boys at Homegrown Natural Wonders (Dr Who, Quantum Kush, Professor Chaos, Mickey Kush, etc)


I thought it was a TGA strain?


----------



## NaturalFarmer (Dec 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Cliffs Notes version; turning heat sinks upright takes advantage of convective cooling and so they run cooler than fixtures mounted horizontally.
> 
> Yep yep!


A pin fin at 45 degrees gives the best cooling? Did I read it wrong?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 10, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I thought it was a TGA strain?


They arent with TGA anymore. Nah its their creation


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 10, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> They arent with TGA anymore. Nah its their creation


I found their seeds at seedsheresnow.com


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 10, 2016)

They are also at oregon420seeds.com and even attitude these days


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 10, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> They are also at oregon420seeds.com and even attitude these days


There is a significant difference in price and attitude is out


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 10, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> There is a significant difference in price and attitude is out


Holy shit 26 fucking dollars is a lil bit. Better off ordering within the US I guess. Thats shipping markup, then you still pay more to ship....


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> A pin fin at 45 degrees gives the best cooling? Did I read it wrong?


Ninety, or on its side.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2016)

That same Star Glue, STILL swelling, like @bassman999's toe!


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Yeah my toe nail is pulling o my skin or something and hurts. Ill go to Dr and ask if it need to come off.

That Star Glue is looking great.
I think its your growing skills more than just awesome strains!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Yeah my toe nail is pulling o my skin or something and hurts. Ill go to Dr and ask if it need to come off.
> 
> That Star Glue is looking great.
> I think its your growing skills more than just awesome strains!


Thanks, man! Hope the toe doesn't need to be amputated lol

I'll give the plants credit, too; they have to put up with my crazy ass setup lol


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks, man! Hope the toe doesn't need to be amputated lol
> 
> I'll give the plants credit, too; they have to put up with my crazy ass setup lol


Nah toe is ok, worst case is pull the nail off so it heals and new one grows.

Have you ever smoked the Sonic Screwdriver?
I am interested, but wondering about the smell/taste


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Nah toe is ok, worst case is pull the nail off so it heals and new one grows.
> 
> Have you ever smoked the Sonic Screwdriver?
> I am interested, but wondering about the smell/taste


Yes, previous runs have yielded reasonably well, good frost production (this one is still the best by far though), fruity smells and flavors and a nice high without being a couch lock type of stone.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 11, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Nice


My last redhead is enjoying the last house I built lol. Her job is consultant for lucifer.


----------



## pop22 (Dec 11, 2016)

If you want to run a hot organic mix, go heavy on the plant based amendments, us Bloodmeal for N but go easy, and go light on guanos if you use them, they are very strong. I ditched guanos for chicken manure, its not as hot, but still high in N, etc. I mix 2 cups of composted chicken manure to 5 gallons of composted cow manure. Some plants may still be sensitive to it. You can also ditch all but the cow manure and up the plant based nutrients, it works great and you can usually plant in it directly. Top dress at week 4 with a little blood meal and have no N problems. I also ad Azomite into fresh soil because it preps the soil for re-cycling. The biggest problem with recycled soil in micro-nutrient depletion and it takes months for good, organic soil to break down the minerals, contrary to what most gardeners think.





bassman999 said:


> I run organic, and strong so I dont usually need to add anything.
> As a matter of fact Im burning this run a lil as its too strong.
> I am new to organic and am prolly adding too much to re ammend


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yes, previous runs have yielded reasonably well, good frost production (this one is still the best by far though), fruity smells and flavors and a nice high without being a couch lock type of stone.


That sounds like my kind of strain exactly.


Budley Doright said:


> My last redhead is enjoying the last house I built lol. Her job is consultant for lucifer.


Sucks to hear that dude!
Are you sure you want another redhead after that?


pop22 said:


> If you want to run a hot organic mix, go heavy on the plant based amendments, us Bloodmeal for N but go easy, and go light on guanos if you use them, they are very strong. I ditched guanos for chicken manure, its not as hot, but still high in N, etc. I mix 2 cups of composted chicken manure to 5 gallons of composted cow manure. Some plants may still be sensitive to it. You can also ditch all but the cow manure and up the plant based nutrients, it works great and you can usually plant in it directly. Top dress at week 4 with a little blood meal and have no N problems. I also ad Azomite into fresh soil because it preps the soil for re-cycling. The biggest problem with recycled soil in micro-nutrient depletion and it takes months for good, organic soil to break down the minerals, contrary to what most gardeners think.


Chicken and cow manure indoors? I figured they smelled too much and use lots of guanos. That might be my problem then. I also use Azomite. I have about 10 ingredients in my mix


----------



## pop22 (Dec 11, 2016)

there is no smell to properly composted manures, I buy mine from a local greenhouse. I've run this mix indoors for a couple years now. Its so nice to get consistant results, grow after grow.......... and just add water!

I use no teas, etc, I rarely top dress. By best indoor single plant grown organically was just shy of a pound, and only because I had to chop early due to F'n spidermites! And now I am finally upgrading to DIY cob lights, etc, thing will get even better! You can tell when the only thing holding back a good grow from being a great one is not enough light.



bassman999 said:


> That sounds like my kind of strain exactly.
> 
> Sucks to hear that dude!
> Are you sure you want another redhead after that?
> ...


----------



## pop22 (Dec 11, 2016)

I'm willing to bet a SIPS of 30 gallons would grow plants that would command respect, with a good organic mix and LOTS of light.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'm willing to bet a SIPS of 30 gallons would grow plants that would command respect, with a good organic mix and LOTS of light.


I have pulled over a pound from 2x5x5 tent more than once with organic water only and 376 watts at the wall of dimmed cobs, but I am not getting the taste I want for some reason and so am open to advice. Could be strain or drying curing I guess...

The stuff I flowered in soil-less with nutes has plenty of flavor hough


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'm willing to bet a SIPS of 30 gallons would grow plants that would command respect, with a good organic mix and LOTS of light.


SIPS?


----------



## jrock420 (Dec 11, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> My last redhead is enjoying the last house I built lol. Her job is consultant for lucifer.


Stay away from the redheads!


----------



## pop22 (Dec 11, 2016)

its a bottom watered/self watering pot, pretty much the same as what I've seen called duo-ponics. I call it soil-ponics lol!



bassman999 said:


> SIPS?


----------



## jrock420 (Dec 11, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I have pulled over a pound from 2x5x5 tent more than once with organic water only and 376 watts at the wall of dimmed cobs, but I am not getting the taste I want for some reason and so am open to advice. Could be strain or drying curing I guess...
> 
> The stuff I flowered in soil-less with nutes has plenty of flavor hough


How u drying? I had the same problem. Then I started drying even slower, whole plants hung up about a week or so weather dependant.


----------



## pop22 (Dec 11, 2016)

Too much N will kill the flavor, and its about the only organic nutrient that is easy to over do, except for maybe kelp meal, and even then, you'd need a LOT of kelp meal to be an issue.

Some people find crabshell helps with low flavor strains, the rumor is anyway. I haven't tried any yet. I may in the greenhouse in the spring


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'm willing to bet a SIPS of 30 gallons would grow plants that would command respect, with a good organic mix and LOTS of light.


That's about 4x bigger than I really want to have to fuck with.

Overkill is a valid strategy, but I'm trying to get more from less here, hence my reluctance to throw massive piles of dirt at the issue.

If I can get the same results with a ten gallon tub and SIPS as opposed to 30 gallons, that's a big win in many ways.

And of course, I could still be wrong. Time will tell.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 11, 2016)

"Are you sure you want another redhead after that?"
Fuck that, no red heads and no wives. They come, I come, then they go . I have an account with the cab company lol.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

jrock420 said:


> Stay away from the redheads!


lol


jrock420 said:


> How u drying? I had the same problem. Then I started drying even slower, whole plants hung up about a week or so weather dependant.


Hang whole plant, usually 7 days or more. My last run hung for 14 days before I started trimming, then into bags after trimming for a week then jars burped for a week or so, and now have Bovida pack in each jar.


pop22 said:


> its a bottom watered/self watering pot, pretty much the same as what I've seen called duo-ponics. I call it soil-ponics lol!


so it (sips) water from bottom as needed I see.


pop22 said:


> Too much N will kill the flavor, and its about the only organic nutrient that is easy to over do, except for maybe kelp meal, and even then, you'd need a LOT of kelp meal to be an issue.
> 
> Some people find crabshell helps with low flavor strains, the rumor is anyway. I haven't tried any yet. I may in the greenhouse in the spring


Do you have a recipe you wanna share?
I have 11 plants that I want to taste strong!!!
They arent in flower yt and will be up-potted once more so I could make a new mix for them.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's about 4x bigger than I really want to have to fuck with.
> 
> Overkill is a valid strategy, but I'm trying to get more from less here, hence my reluctance to throw massive piles of dirt at the issue.
> 
> ...


I love overkill, as long as it is detrimental.


----------



## pop22 (Dec 11, 2016)

I've found curing to be the source of good taste, and over drying to hurt it. I 3-5 days, depending on humidity, the dryer the air, the sooner I jar them up. I ALWAYS us Boveda packs and since i did that, you can smell a jar of my weed across the room when I open it. I also use a cheap hygrometer in every jar. I dump the jars out on a cookie sheet if humidity is over 65%. At 65% I burp the jars twicw a day unitl the RH is between 59-62%. I keep them there for at least a month...if I haven't smoked it all......lol! After that you can keep it for months at 59-62%, or dry it for longer storage.


----------



## pop22 (Dec 11, 2016)

I'll post more soon. I'm having trouble keeping things straight right now. I was overdosed at the hospital Thursday while under sedation. They hit me with 500 mg of Ketamine! I hallucinated for 10 hours, and was sure i was going to die.......... I still feel scrambled from it



bassman999 said:


> lol
> 
> Hang whole plant, usually 7 days or more. My last run hung for 14 days before I started trimming, then into bags after trimming for a week then jars burped for a week or so, and now have Bovida pack in each jar.
> 
> ...


----------



## Seriousbuds (Dec 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Somewhere there's a herd of donkeys missing their dicks;
> View attachment 3848688 View attachment 3848689 View attachment 3848690
> Star Glue, 56 days.


I've never seen anything like this. You're yielding what, 1.5 pounds off that first plant? In a 3x2x6ish space? That's fucking _insane_. If I had higher ceilings and no tent I would be doing this right now.

Have you thought about mounting a bar to the roof and then a bunch of rope hangers to lift that donkey dicks? I don't even know that this would do anything though, might just be a pain in the ass.
Or sliding a bar behind the fence? I wonder if a wall of samsung/bridgelux strips on the back would do anything.


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Dec 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sonic Screwdriver, only 43 days and already stooooopid frosty. Pic in the dark to give some idea;
> View attachment 3850419 View attachment 3850421 View attachment 3850422


We had a sonic screwdriver in a 100 gallon this year in central oregon. Your plant is more than likely going to yield more than ours did ha!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2016)

Seriousbuds said:


> I've never seen anything like this. You're yielding what, 1.5 pounds off that first plant? In a 3x2x6ish space? That's fucking _insane_. If I had higher ceilings and no tent I would be doing this right now.
> 
> Have you thought about mounting a bar to the roof and then a bunch of rope hangers to lift that donkey dicks? I don't even know that this would do anything though, might just be a pain in the ass.
> Or sliding a bar behind the fence? I wonder if a wall of samsung/bridgelux strips on the back would do anything.


The trellis panel is seen edge on in this pic, it's 6' tall x 4' across. That height does not include the 5 gallon bucket. The plant is roughly a foot thick. Yes, 24 zips is a fair guess, we'll know when she's cured.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> We had a sonic screwdriver in a 100 gallon this year in central oregon. Your plant is more than likely going to yield more than ours did ha!


Pot size is not a reliable indicator of eventual results, lol


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I've found curing to be the source of good taste, and over drying to hurt it. I 3-5 days, depending on humidity, the dryer the air, the sooner I jar them up. I ALWAYS us Boveda packs and since i did that, you can smell a jar of my weed across the room when I open it. I also use a cheap hygrometer in every jar. I dump the jars out on a cookie sheet if humidity is over 65%. At 65% I burp the jars twicw a day unitl the RH is between 59-62%. I keep them there for at least a month...if I haven't smoked it all......lol! After that you can keep it for months at 59-62%, or dry it for longer storage.


AI dont have any hygrometers and would need a dozen to use it in all jars when I have a good amount, because only 2oz or so a jar usually so I have extra space in jars


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

pop22 said:


> I'll post more soon. I'm having trouble keeping things straight right now. I was overdosed at the hospital Thursday while under sedation. They hit me with 500 mg of Ketamine! I hallucinated for 10 hours, and was sure i was going to die.......... I still feel scrambled from it


Damn sorry to hear about that.
Why does a hospital use that?


----------



## Bakersfield (Dec 11, 2016)

Hey ttystikk, I was wondering what's your opinion on running 315w CMH in a bare bulb vertical setup?
I currently run 1000w Hortilux in a bare bulb vertical setup. I start with 30" from the bulb and I feel that I only get about 4' of good vertical yield from this single light source. 
I thinking that by stacking 2 of the CMH 315's in a tighter circumference, I should get better coverage with a better spectrum.


----------



## Seriousbuds (Dec 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The trellis panel is seen edge on in this pic, it's 6' tall x 4' across. That height does not include the 5 gallon bucket. The plant is roughly a foot thick. Yes, 24 zips is a fair guess, we'll know when she's cured.


Have you grown vertically in a tent, and do you think it would yield more than a 4-6 plant SOG+scrog under 3x3ft of horizontal COBs?

What do you think about a double sided cob bar and hang it vertically down the middle of the tent from the ceiling. now I've got 4 or 6 buckets and I'd fix a trellis on each side, also hung from the ceiling.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Bakersfield said:


> Hey ttystikk, I was wondering what's your opinion on running 315w CMH in a bare bulb vertical setup?
> I currently run 1000w Hortilux in a bare bulb vertical setup. I start with 30" from the bulb and I feel that I only get about 4' of good vertical yield from this single light source.
> I thinking that by stacking 2 of the CMH 315's in a tighter circumference, I should get better coverage with a better spectrum.


I think the 2 CMH is a better option, as well as cobs


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Dec 11, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I think the 2 CMH is a better option, as well as cobs


COBS are the best option, then DIY CMH. you can pick up an adapter from your local Hydro store for $17 for a standard HPS/MH socket to CMH. find a balist that runs 300W. thats the cheapest way, but remember that a 315W CMH covers 2.5X2.5ft so you really need more of them which over all makes it more expensive than COBs by about 3-4 times depending on what youre using it for.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 11, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> COBS are the best option, then DIY CMH. you can pick up an adapter from your local Hydro store for $17 for a standard HPS/MH socket to CMH. find a balist that runs 300W. thats the cheapest way, but remember that a 315W CMH covers 2.5X2.5ft so you really need more of them which over all makes it more expensive than COBs by about 3-4 times depending on what youre using it for.


I agree I wouldnt run HID lights anymore.
Cobs for me these days, but CMH is definitely better than HPS IMO.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

Bakersfield said:


> Hey ttystikk, I was wondering what's your opinion on running 315w CMH in a bare bulb vertical setup?
> I currently run 1000w Hortilux in a bare bulb vertical setup. I start with 30" from the bulb and I feel that I only get about 4' of good vertical yield from this single light source.
> I thinking that by stacking 2 of the CMH 315's in a tighter circumference, I should get better coverage with a better spectrum.


Should work fine. Stacking three would be even better.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

Seriousbuds said:


> Have you grown vertically in a tent, and do you think it would yield more than a 4-6 plant SOG+scrog under 3x3ft of horizontal COBs?
> 
> What do you think about a double sided cob bar and hang it vertically down the middle of the tent from the ceiling. now I've got 4 or 6 buckets and I'd fix a trellis on each side, also hung from the ceiling.


These are some cool ideas- I can't wait to see you try them!


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 12, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> CMH. you can pick up an adapter from your local Hydro store for $17 for a standard HPS/MH socket to CMH. find a balist that runs 300W.


not exactly. you need a LFSW ballast designed for the CMH. any old ballast wont' work.


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Dec 12, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> not exactly. you need a LFSW ballast designed for the CMH. any old ballast wont' work.


We will see soon enough, Im going to try it anyways as its not that high of a cost... digital ballast though... I guess we will see lol


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 12, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> We will see soon enough, Im going to try it anyways as its not that high of a cost... digital ballast though... I guess we will see lol


hope your homeowners insurance is up to snuff!


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Dec 12, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> hope your homeowners insurance is up to snuff!


For sure, I have a solid electronics background and to me the difference is silly Look at the running Amps and Volts and simulate the same thing... not a crazy concept.. worst case is a blown bulb.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> We will see soon enough, Im going to try it anyways as its not that high of a cost... digital ballast though... I guess we will see lol


You'll end up either not stroking the lamp at all, or risking early failure- often explosively. Is your lamp open rated? If not, DON'T run it in the open! The lack of scatter protection will send little burning bits of ceramic pit everywhere and can start fires.

These fuckin bulbs are no joke!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 12, 2016)

Just curious why would you want to take the chance of blowing shit, if *everyone and their brother* recommends a sw ballast? Hell, even a bulb is almost a bill, seems sort of dumb, but anyway, aint my shit so press on


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> For sure, I have a solid electronics background and to me the difference is silly Look at the running Amps and Volts and simulate the same thing... not a crazy concept.. worst case is a blown bulb.


Ok, low frequency in this case means below 175Hz. Magnetic ballasts do this, but their sine wave output is very inefficient compared to a square wave ballast. Your electronics background should help you connect the dots as to why 315W CMH lights on their proper drivers would be the desirable combination.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Just curious why would you want to take the chance of blowing shit, if *everyone and their brother* recommends a sw ballast? Hell, even a bulb is almost a bill, seems sort of dumb, but anyway, aint my shit so press on


Some people need to drive off the cliff to know it hurts when you hit the bottom.


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 12, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> For sure, I have a solid electronics background and to me the difference is silly Look at the running Amps and Volts and simulate the same thing... not a crazy concept.. worst case is a blown bulb.


i have a solid background too. a sine wave is nowhere near the same as a square wave.


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You'll end up either not stroking the lamp at all, or risking early failure- often explosively. Is your lamp open rated? If not, DON'T run it in the open! The lack of scatter protection will send little burning bits of ceramic pit everywhere and can start fires.
> 
> These fuckin bulbs are no joke!


did i ever tell you the guy who owned advanced lighting had a LEC explode and almost blinded him? one of the reasons he was so late shipping out my CMH kit.


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Some people need to drive off the cliff to know it hurts when you hit the bottom.


eerily similar to our latest election! my fall will be cushioned by all the rust belt trump voters already at the bottom. lol!!!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Some people need to drive off the cliff to know it hurts when you hit the bottom.


lol good way to put it. I know it fucking hurts, no testing required


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Dec 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You'll end up either not stroking the lamp at all, or risking early failure- often explosively. Is your lamp open rated? If not, DON'T run it in the open! The lack of scatter protection will send little burning bits of ceramic pit everywhere and can start fires.
> 
> These fuckin bulbs are no joke!


I hadnt looked into the waves produced only got as far as the power used, but if thats the case then yeah wont work too well.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> I hadnt looked into the waves produced only got as far as the power used, but if thats the case then yeah wont work too well.


I wouldn't steer you wrong, bro.


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I wouldn't steer you wrong, bro.


definitely not a conspiracy by Philips to purchase un-needed ballasts for sure!


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Dec 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You'll end up either not stroking the lamp at all, or risking early failure- often explosively. Is your lamp open rated? If not, DON'T run it in the open! The lack of scatter protection will send little burning bits of ceramic pit everywhere and can start fires.
> 
> These fuckin bulbs are no joke!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> View attachment 3851768


Hey, how'd you get the lab footage of my fusion lamp plasma containment failure?


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Dec 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey, how'd you get the lab footage of my fusion lamp plasma containment failure?


The recording landed on my lawn? :0


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 12, 2016)

Careful with the bulbs! 
I had an HPS explode before and it was scary.
It doesnt turn off even after exploding and was shooting sparks and sounded like a welder.


----------



## pop22 (Dec 12, 2016)

why would sine wave be less efficient? More expensive to build yes, but? or is it about the physics of the bulb itself liking the faster phase shift?


----------



## Frajola (Dec 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey, how'd you get the lab footage of my fusion lamp plasma containment failure?


Thanks God was a failure, lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

pop22 said:


> why would sine wave be less efficient? More expensive to build yes, but? or is it about the physics of the bulb itself liking the faster phase shift?


Sine wave only drives the lamp at maximum for an instant, and spends 30% of the time near zero. 

Square wave spends almost all of its time at maximum output and almost zero near the zero line. Same wattage expended, 30% more light.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

Frajola said:


> Thanks God was a failure, lol.


You should see what happens when I succeed.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Dec 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You should see what happens when I succeed.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> View attachment 3852123


Birdshit on a stick. Brilliant! Where's Gallagher?


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Dec 12, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> View attachment 3852123


We call those Parakeets in the US.


----------



## pop22 (Dec 13, 2016)

Ahh I understand, thanks



ttystikk said:


> Sine wave only drives the lamp at maximum for an instant, and spends 30% of the time near zero.
> 
> Square wave spends almost all of its time at maximum output and almost zero near the zero line. Same wattage expended, 30% more light.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Ahh I understand, thanks


LED runs on DC, no flickering at all.


----------



## Frajola (Dec 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You should see what happens when I succeed.


I saw that already mate i just want to
See more, lol


----------



## pop22 (Dec 13, 2016)

I have done photovoltaic installations and this threw me as I was thinking in those terms as related to electronics, not a resistive load.
We ran DC for lighting for that reason, better efficiency. 



ttystikk said:


> LED runs on DC, no flickering at all.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Dec 13, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> View attachment 3852123



Budgies rule!!


----------



## Big_Lou (Dec 13, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> We call those Parakeets in the US.


I dunno, seemed to be a pretty even split when I was a kid. (Budgie/parakeet)

We had one in the 70s/80s. He lived quite a few years, and then one day when my sisters were cleaning his cage he just flew out the window.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Dec 13, 2016)

yeh thats sad..there are no dumb budgies ..just dumb or at times tuned out..budgie owners[close window doors]


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> I dunno, seemed to be a pretty even split when I was a kid. (Budgie/parakeet)
> 
> We had one in the 70s/80s. He lived quite a few years, and then one day when my sisters were cleaning his cage he just flew out the window.


This is why you train them to fly to you, so you can go outside and it will fly down to you. 

It happened to some friends.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2016)

I'm gonna try to work on my SIPS setup today.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Dec 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This is why you train them to fly to you, so you can go outside and it will fly down to you.
> 
> It happened to some friends.



yes of course..but once outside in the large and confusing outside its a tough thing for a budgie to get back..


they can be retrieved [sometimes]..its a tough job being a budgie


----------



## Big_Lou (Dec 13, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> yeh thats sad..there are no dumb budgies ..just dumb or at times tuned out..budgie owners[close window doors]





ttystikk said:


> This is why you train them to fly to you, so you can go outside and it will fly down to you.
> 
> It happened to some friends.


Yeah, he was (reasonably?) well trained, at least enough to fly around the house and land on select people. My parents told us (placative lie?) that he, as many animals do, went off to "pass away in the wild". 
To be fair, he was very old.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Dec 13, 2016)

well said..yes it happens..only rule i try to have is not open windows or doors when budgie is out of the cage..


----------



## Big_Lou (Dec 13, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> well said..yes it happens..only rule i try to have is not open windows or doors when budgie is out of the cage..


That was the odd thing, though; the doors/windows would almost _always_ be open when he'd be out of his cage. He'd go NEAR them but never flew out. (shrugs)

Do birds suffer from senility/dementia, I wonder?


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Dec 13, 2016)

i understand and heard of other losing their birds by thinking they would never fly away

it can just take one lapse of budgie thought pattern to have a serious problem happen like fying out the window

..what can happen will happen

i doubt senility..just made the wrong move..well you know  us seniors


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Dec 13, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> I dunno, seemed to be a pretty even split when I was a kid. (Budgie/parakeet)
> 
> We had one in the 70s/80s. He lived quite a few years, and then one day when my sisters were cleaning his cage he just flew out the window.


I thought that was a Limey thing. I guess you learn something new every day.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Dec 13, 2016)

and thanks for your budgie talk patience *Ttystikk

Budgerigar...Maori word that means "good to eat"*


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Dec 13, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> and thanks for your budgie talk patience *Ttystikk
> 
> Budgerigar...Maori word that means "good to eat"*


Lul.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> and thanks for your budgie talk patience *Ttystikk*


I used to have a cockatiel, I love birds!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Lul.


Tastes like chicken.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Dec 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I used to have a cockatiel, I love birds!


I had a hand raised cockatiel that escaped just like @OLD MOTHER SATIVA's budgie! Sad stuff, friends.


----------



## Frajola (Dec 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This is why you train them to fly to you, so you can go outside and it will fly down to you.
> 
> It happened to some friends.


true.


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Dec 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Pot size is not a reliable indicator of eventual results, lol


True, a big part of the problem was trying to grow at 44 lattitude with cheap greenhouses. We had temps hitting 115 in mid summer and lows in the 30s in october.. PM was definitely a problem. I've heard silica and neem oil sprayed twice a week in flower is a great PM preventative. A 1% hydrogen peroxide solution worked well for getting rid of the stuff, but the problem was it spread so quickly and was virtually uncontrollable. They had us doing foliars 2-3 times a day with a 2 gallon fogger on 260 plants.. It was dumb. Almost always used thrive alive green and yucca, some expensive crap from nectar of the gods. Terpinator was used in flower, which is just 4% soluble potash derived from potassium sulfate... Another expensive bottle of water from the hydro store.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> True, a big part of the problem was trying to grow at 44 lattitude with cheap greenhouses. We had temps hitting 115 in mid summer and lows in the 30s in october.. PM was definitely a problem. I've heard silica and neem oil sprayed twice a week in flower is a great PM preventative. A 1% hydrogen peroxide solution worked well for getting rid of the stuff, but the problem was it spread so quickly and was virtually uncontrollable. They had us doing foliars 2-3 times a day with a 2 gallon fogger on 260 plants.. It was dumb. Almost always used thrive alive green and yucca, some expensive crap from nectar of the gods. Terpinator was used in flower, which is just 4% soluble potash derived from potassium sulfate... Another expensive bottle of water from the hydro store.


I lol'ed when I read this. I certainly agree with your assessments. Tell us how you really feel lmao


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2016)

If you work an IPM program in from the get go then those problems are minimal...most people just try to manage it after its already an issue


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Dec 13, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> If you work an IPM program in from the get go then those problems are minimal...most people just try to manage it after its already an issue


Excellent point. They had us spraying in rotation azamax, azatrol, and zero tolerance fungicide/insecticide. Neem oil I'm sure is cheaper and probably more effective than Rosenthals or any other product out there at the dro store.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I used to have a cockatiel, I love birds!


We had cockatiels, cockatoos, parakeets, and a 75 year old parrot who had one eye; the other was put put by a rock when she was riding in her cage in the back of a truck in the 30's. She was the coolest old parrot ever, loved us kids, hated the parents lol. She sang and talked as well. She died when she was in her 80's in our years.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> Excellent point. They had us spraying in rotation azamax, azatrol, and zero tolerance fungicide/insecticide. Neem oil I'm sure is cheaper and probably more effective than Rosenthals or any other product out there at the dro store.


Neem cake mixed into the soil from the get go takes care of 90% of that shit imo....


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Dec 13, 2016)

DesertGrow89 said:


> Excellent point. They had us spraying in rotation azamax, azatrol, and zero tolerance fungicide/insecticide. Neem oil I'm sure is cheaper and probably more effective than Rosenthals or any other product out there at the dro store.


If I use 2 teaspoons of neem in my watering, the bugs disappear for at least 2 weeks.


----------



## Big_Lou (Dec 13, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Neem cake mixed into the soil from the get go takes care of 90% of that shit imo....


I use neem paste on my choppers. Best toothpaste available.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> I use neem paste on my choppers. Best toothpaste available.


whats that taste like?


----------



## Big_Lou (Dec 13, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> whats that taste like?


It tastes a lot like *NEEM*, shockingly.


 



Spoiler


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 13, 2016)

I bet it tastes like crap, but is wayyy healthier than the minty and cinnamon poison toothpaste.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 13, 2016)

I use neem seed meal in my soil, is that the same as neem cake?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> It tastes a lot like *NEEM*, shockingly.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3852603
> ...


lol, anything similar taste to compare to? Yeah I imagine it is alot better than shit in a tube


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I use neem seed meal in my soil, is that the same as neem cake?


yeah it all comes from the neem tree....different constiuent


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2016)

What we get here are neem cake meal pellets. Awesome shit, I need to acquire some myself now


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 13, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> What we get here are neem cake meal pellets. Awesome shit, I need to acquire some myself now


Mine is a bag of dry pellets


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 13, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Mine is a bag of dry pellets


Probably the same. I mixed it in last time, watered in, and let it work itself into the soil before using it. Though probably would have been fine with just them


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Dec 13, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I had a hand raised cockatiel that escaped just like @OLD MOTHER SATIVA's budgie! Sad stuff, friends.



thankfully i have not had a budgie or bird escape..mistakes can happen but fortunately i am uber vigilante..and probably the element of luck comes in too


----------



## Bbcchance (Dec 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Sonic Screwdriver, only 43 days and already stooooopid frosty. Pic in the dark to give some idea;
> View attachment 3850419 View attachment 3850421 View attachment 3850422


I know this was from a few days ago, but I had a busy weekend and am just catching up on my reading and had to pause and say fucking wow man. Hope I just broke into a dumb argument to say that, I'll find out in a few pages


----------



## Big_Lou (Dec 13, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> lol, anything similar taste to compare to? Yeah I imagine it is alot better than shit in a tube


This is the kind I get:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Himalaya-Neem-and-Pomegranate-Travel-Toothpaste-21g-10-Pack-/272376815193?hash=item3f6aec5e59:g:YcYAAOSw8w1X2ev6

Regarding the taste, it's difficult to peg. This particular brand has a bit of a pom/birch flavor (kind of like Teaberry gum, if you remember that flavor), but it really all depends.
Some are flavored with fruit extracts, others with things like mint, clove, etc.

Give this 'BABOOL' a try!

 



Spoiler



Baba Booey Babool!





Spoiler


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2016)

Bbcchance said:


> I know this was from a few days ago, but I had a busy weekend and am just catching up on my reading and had to pause and say fucking wow man. Hope I just broke into a dumb argument to say that, I'll find out in a few pages


A lil reminder of the original topic now and then is always welcome, lol

Glad you like my hobby... It keeps me climbing the walls, lol


----------



## Big_Lou (Dec 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> A lil reminder of the original topic now and then is always welcome, lol
> 
> Glad you like my hobby... It keeps me climbing the walls, lol


Your grow thread is one of - if not *the* - finest. FACT.

So much info, so many sexy pics, so much absorption.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> Your grow thread is one of - if not *the* - finest. FACT.
> 
> So much info, so many sexy pics, so much absorption.


Why, thank you! I'm just doing my bit here, brother.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 13, 2016)

I just ordered some neem (and other natural stuff) toothpaste from ebay


----------



## Big_Lou (Dec 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Why, thank you! I'm just doing my bit here, brother.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 13, 2016)

@ttystikk what spectrum(s) do you recommend for cobs?
Right now I have a mix of 3000k and 3500k. Buying more cobs for a new tent and wondered if you have a preference


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 14, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> @ttystikk what spectrum(s) do you recommend for cobs?
> Right now I have a mix of 3000k and 3500k. Buying more cobs for a new tent and wondered if you have a preference


I'm running 3500K now with the success you see in the pics.

I've been told by those who know that 3000K 90 CRI is the ticket because of the sweet spot in the red band. I plan to try some soon. 

Which do you like best?


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm running 3500K now with the success you see in the pics.
> 
> I've been told by those who know that 3000K 90 CRI is the ticket because of the sweet spot in the red band. I plan to try some soon.
> 
> Which do you like best?


I ant really say since I have a mix in my tent, but the back had the 3000k 80cri and yielded better consistently, but that could be better climate in back or selectivity etc... 
my 3000k are cxa3070 btw and the front are cxb3590 so go figure


----------



## pop22 (Dec 14, 2016)

Interesting... I've seen other people say they thought the 3070's grew better bud also. Will be nice when we have enough grow data to see how the new brands and chips compare to previous builds



bassman999 said:


> I ant really say since I have a mix in my tent, but the back had the 3000k 80cri and yielded better consistently, but that could be better climate in back or selectivity etc...
> my 3000k are cxa3070 btw and the front are cxb3590 so go figure


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Dec 14, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> thankfully i have not had a budgie or bird escape..mistakes can happen but fortunately i am uber vigilante..and probably the element of luck comes in too


I misread something whilst drinking, apologies.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 14, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I misread something whilst drinking, apologies.


I misdrank something while reading once, that didn't turn out well, either.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 14, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Interesting... I've seen other people say they thought the 3070's grew better bud also. Will be nice when we have enough grow data to see how the new brands and chips compare to previous builds


Maybe the CXB were just more expensive, but not really better


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 14, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> Maybe the CXB were just more expensive, but not really better


At least they aren't worse. Don't Say they're worse, I'm running them!


----------



## toddwalker33 (Dec 14, 2016)

What factors could make the 3070's better than the 3590's? askinng because i'm running some 3590s myself


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> At least they aren't worse. Don't Say they're worse, I'm running them!


Well if the cxb are worse (not saying they are) then Id love to see what you can do with the best!
In my case its not a fair test, just progressive observation.
I switched locations, but in a tent this size they are all getting overlap from the 12 cobs in a 2x4ft space


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 14, 2016)

toddwalker33 said:


> What factors could make the 3070's better than the 3590's? askinng because i'm running some 3590s myself


I cant see any factors that would make them better except that I am running 3000k in the cxa3070s, and 3500k in the cxb3590s (I dont know what spectrum is better and might be certain specrums favor certain strains even?)
There could be other variable like the back cxa part has the more direct feed from the intake fan and the lights are spaced differently on the different fixtures


----------



## pop22 (Dec 15, 2016)

Maybe a different phosphor coating? These are not intended for the horticultural market, or that is my understanding of them. 



bassman999 said:


> I cant see any factors that would make them better except that I am running 3000k in the cxa3070s, and 3500k in the cxb3590s (I dont know what spectrum is better and might be certain specrums favor certain strains even?)
> There could be other variable like the back cxa part has the more direct feed from the intake fan and the lights are spaced differently on the different fixtures


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 15, 2016)

pop22 said:


> Maybe a different phosphor coating? These are not intended for the horticultural market, or that is my understanding of them.


Wouldn't be the first time we resourceful potheads have creatively repurposed items "not intended for growing"...


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 15, 2016)

I re-purpose lots of things, and I believe these are intended as street and parking lot lighting primarily, and as accent lighting indoors secondarily.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Dec 15, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I misread something whilst drinking, apologies.


and i was sorry to hear about your cockatiel..they are wild wonderful and strange birds


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 15, 2016)

So here's a quick look at the tub with a hole cut in the bottom for the netpot bucket lid. Bricks to hold the tub above the netpot. I'll fill the tub with substrate, put this mess inside a bigger tub, add enough nutrient solution to get the netpot wet and voilá! SIPS in Tupur, on the bricks;


----------



## SomeGuy (Dec 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> So here's a quick look at the tub with a hole cut in the bottom for the netpot bucket lid. Bricks to hold the tub above the netpot. I'll fill the tub with substrate, put this mess inside a bigger tub, add enough nutrient solution to get the netpot wet and voilá! SIPS in Tupur, on the bricks;
> View attachment 3854474


This looks to be going in the right direction. You will like the yields from something that big. I highly suggest agitation or aeration in the rez. But I just remembered you are using solution in the rez so maybe no... lol. Still looking really strong there ty


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 15, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> This looks to be going in the right direction. You will like the yields from something that big. I highly suggest agitation or aeration in the rez. But I just remembered you are using solution in the rez so maybe no... lol. Still looking really strong there ty


The plan is to aerate and circulate water in the tubs just like I did when I was running RDWC- in fact, I'll be using exactly the same tubs and plumbing, lol! The only difference will be that I'm not planning to chill the nutrient solution. 

Thanks for the encouraging words, much appreciated! I think I'm doing pretty good considering I'm using 5 gallon buckets, but I'm looking to pull 2 pounders plus and that's why I had to try something more. 

This approach is meant to give me all the advantages of unlimited access to water, plus the advantages of a soil substrate. We'll see how it works!


----------



## SomeGuy (Dec 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The plan is to aerate and circulate water in the tubs just like I did when I was running RDWC- in fact, I'll be using exactly the same tubs and plumbing, lol! The only difference will be that I'm not planning to chill the nutrient solution.
> 
> Thanks for the encouraging words, much appreciated! I think I'm doing pretty good considering I'm using 5 gallon buckets, but I'm looking to pull 2 pounders plus and that's why I had to try something more.
> 
> This approach is meant to give me all the advantages of unlimited access to water, plus the advantages of a soil substrate. We'll see how it works!


It works. I have been doing it. Just w organic soil and water only. But I do not see why it wouldn't work. I will be experimenting w using rez nutes w organics in the near future though.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 15, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> It works. I have been doing it. Just w organic soil and water only. But I do not see why it wouldn't work. I will be experimenting w using rez nutes w organics in the near future though.


The only thing my girls lack is enough water and nutes. I'm very interested in hearing how your experiments develop.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 16, 2016)

Maybe I should try this in a tent


----------



## pop22 (Dec 16, 2016)

With a wick that large, you want to keep no more than a couple inches of water in the lower tub for a recirculating setup. I've built them using match pair of tub. Let the wick do its work.

As Soon as I have enough light, probably more Quantum boards, I'm going to do my first vertical using a 10 gallon sips. Got my seeds, TGA's Nine Pound Hammer.

I can't wait to see your new light in operation! You going to drive the soft?





ttystikk said:


> The plan is to aerate and circulate water in the tubs just like I did when I was running RDWC- in fact, I'll be using exactly the same tubs and plumbing, lol! The only difference will be that I'm not planning to chill the nutrient solution.
> 
> Thanks for the encouraging words, much appreciated! I think I'm doing pretty good considering I'm using 5 gallon buckets, but I'm looking to pull 2 pounders plus and that's why I had to try something more.
> 
> This approach is meant to give me all the advantages of unlimited access to water, plus the advantages of a soil substrate. We'll see how it works!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2016)

pop22 said:


> With a wick that large, you want to keep no more than a couple inches of water in the lower tub for a recirculating setup. I've built them using match pair of tub. Let the wick do its work.
> 
> As Soon as I have enough light, probably more Quantum boards, I'm going to do my first vertical using a 10 gallon sips. Got my seeds, TGA's Nine Pound Hammer.
> 
> I can't wait to see your new light in operation! You going to drive the soft?


I have lots of new lights to test. First up is the new Razor 250 bars.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2016)

pop22 said:


> With a wick that large, you want to keep no more than a couple inches of water in the lower tub for a recirculating setup. I've built them using match pair of tub. Let the wick do its work.
> 
> As Soon as I have enough light, probably more Quantum boards, I'm going to do my first vertical using a 10 gallon sips. Got my seeds, TGA's Nine Pound Hammer.
> 
> I can't wait to see your new light in operation! You going to drive the soft?


Also meant to say that I appreciate the advice and intend to follow it!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2016)

The quantum boards have arrived! I have one pigtail so i got one running and I've never seen so many Stars in my eyes, lol 

Don't look into the light! Lol


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The quantum boards have arrived! I have one pigtail so i got one running and I've never seen so many Stars in my eyes, lol
> 
> Don't look into the light! Lol


If they are anything like my Cree street light fixtures they will ruin your eyes! light emits in all directions.
Even slightly behind them you see it
Do you have optics for them on order?


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> If they are anything like my Cree street light fixtures they will ruin your eyes! light emits in all directions.
> Even slightly behind them you see it
> Do you have optics for them on order?


I'm waaaaaaaay ahead of you...


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The quantum boards have arrived! I have one pigtail so i got one running and I've never seen so many Stars in my eyes, lol
> 
> Don't look into the light! Lol


unless it the sun, then do a little sun gazing


----------



## JDMase (Dec 16, 2016)

Seriousbuds said:


> Have you grown vertically in a tent, and do you think it would yield more than a 4-6 plant SOG+scrog under 3x3ft of horizontal COBs?
> 
> What do you think about a double sided cob bar and hang it vertically down the middle of the tent from the ceiling. now I've got 4 or 6 buckets and I'd fix a trellis on each side, also hung from the ceiling.


Man I was thinking the exact Same thing! Just thought that If you had a 1x1x2 metre tent that a vertical scrog on three of the walls would have a max potential of 6m squared as opposed to 1m square in a horizontal scrog. Even a V scrog wouldn't compare in surface area. 

Thanks @ttystikk for the inspiration and thanks @Seriousbuds for confirming im not the only one thinking it!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> unless it the sun, then do a little sun gazing


No. Not a good idea. 

These quantum boards will leave after images, welders flash, whatever you want to call it. I can't wait to get them installed. I have a brand new arrival in my bloom rack that will be an ideal guinea pig.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2016)

JDMase said:


> Man I was thinking the exact Same thing! Just thought that If you had a 1x1x2 metre tent that a vertical scrog on three of the walls would have a max potential of 6m squared as opposed to 1m square in a horizontal scrog. Even a V scrog wouldn't compare in surface area.
> 
> Thanks @ttystikk for the inspiration and thanks @Seriousbuds for confirming im not the only one thinking it!


@kiwipaulie is doing something similar.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No. Not a good idea.
> 
> These quantum boards will leave after images, welders flash, whatever you want to call it. I can't wait to get them installed. I have a brand new arrival in my bloom rack that will be an ideal guinea pig.


Im not talking about staring at you lights dude, the real sun...do a search


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Im not talking about staring at you lights dude, the real sun...do a search


I have and i don't recommend it.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2016)

So i got two fixtures; each runs 4 quantum boards on a Meanwell 320- 1400.

I don't recommend looking into them any more than staring at the sun.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Dec 16, 2016)

You have to do so early in the morning, I can feel the power in it myself. Anyway getting natural power from it, is not for everyone, to each their own.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2016)

Our Feds just released the recommendations from the legalization study and rec growers will be limited to 4 plants 100 cm tall  looks like I'm going to have to redesign my lab if wanting to stay legal........ hahahaha ya ok . Perhaps 4 octagon rings 3' tall lol.


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 17, 2016)

brrrrrrr. a tit nipply here this a.m. and i'm all out of Bailey's for my coffee.


----------



## JDMase (Dec 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Our Feds just released the recommendations from the legalization study and rec growers will be limited to 4 plants 100 cm tall  looks like I'm going to have to redesign my lab if wanting to stay legal........ hahahaha ya ok . Perhaps 4 octagon rings 3' tall lol.


100cm tall but doesn't say how wide?  lol


----------



## GroErr (Dec 17, 2016)

JDMase said:


> 100cm tall but doesn't say how wide?  lol


Had some practice at these 100cm tall 15 gal bonsai plants this past summer, I think I went over by 10cm but who's going to come measure them when every other house has plants going? They eventually pulled 29 zips between them, double that up and not a bad stash. Add a 25 plant indoor count under a medical license and you're good to go


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> brrrrrrr. a tit nipply here this a.m. and i'm all out of Bailey's for my coffee.


Now THAT'S hardship!


----------



## pineappleman420 (Dec 17, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> You have to do so early in the morning, I can feel the power in it myself. Anyway getting natural power from it, is not for everyone, to each their own.


Looking at first thing in morning or last light of day... Also stare at the moon my friend... Old kungfu and traditional Chinese medicine methods for better eye sight. And dont forget to clench your teeth while you pee for a more vigorous life... Good vibes to all that want them


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2016)

JDMase said:


> 100cm tall but doesn't say how wide?  lol


Nope they didn't, they did say 30 grams though . Where do I bury the other 10 pounds lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Nope they didn't, they did say 30 grams though . Where do I bury the other 10 pounds lol.


That's not regulation, that's eliminating the competition.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's not regulation, that's eliminating the competition.


True that man lol. The Indians are my biggest competition now with the storefront dispensary at 6 a gram. Actually my days of caring about sales are way gone, if someone asks then yup. But the 10 pounds are for me and miss smokes a ton lol. She cleans and fucks better when high lol


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> True that man lol. The Indians are my biggest competition now with the storefront dispensary at 6 a gram. Actually my days of caring about sales are way gone, if someone asks then yup. But the 10 pounds are for me and miss smokes a ton lol. She cleans and fucks better when high lol


I have two things to say about that; 1. You're a very lucky man, and 2. I'm not sure only ten pounds would be enough, you know, "just in case".


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I have two things to say about that; 1. You're a very lucky man, and 2. I'm not sure only ten pounds would be enough, you know, "just in case".


It's not, that's why the very expensive power bill every winter lol


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2016)

I discovered and identified a small colony of predatory mites in my bloom room! 

Phytoseiulus Persimilis bright red orange mites, very high predation rate - and therefore well worth saving. 

I sprinkled them on my fresh clones in the hope they thrive in the humidity under the dome.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> It's not, that's why the very expensive power bill every winter lol


GOOD MAN! 

If the police start asking questions, your explanation should put you in the clear before any magistrate with an ounce of sense.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I discovered and identified a small colony of predatory mites in my bloom room!
> 
> Phytoseiulus Persimilis bright red orange mites, very high predation rate - and therefore well worth saving.
> 
> I sprinkled them on my fresh clones in the hope they thrive in the humidity under the dome.


Biological warfare wooohooo


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 17, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Had some practice at these 100cm tall 15 gal bonsai plants this past summer, I think I went over by 10cm but who's going to come measure them when every other house has plants going? They eventually pulled 29 zips between them, double that up and not a bad stash. Add a 25 plant indoor count under a medical license and you're good to go
> 
> View attachment 3855612


Too tall tie em down...


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2016)

I ran across some old OG Biowar microbial inoculant and I'm going to put it in my nutrient solution. I've no idea how much this will affect things, that's part of why I'm doing it.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I ran across some old OG Biowar microbial inoculant and I'm going to put it in my nutrient solution. I've no idea how much this will affect things, that's part of why I'm doing it.


It will be interesting to see how it performs? I'm going to try Oregonizm next run.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> It will be interesting to see how it performs? I'm going to try Oregonizm next run.


It was useless in RDWC but now that I'm running Tupur...


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It was useless in RDWC but now that I'm running Tupur...


They do make a product that is supposedly just for flooded systems re RDWC, etc. I had great success (I think lol) with hydroguard but it's pricey and hard to get here. Seen a few grows that used it and the root structure was very robust lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> They do make a product that is supposedly just for flooded systems re RDWC, etc. I had great success (I think lol) with hydroguard but it's pricey and hard to get here. Seen a few grows that used it and the root structure was very robust lol.


My roots are stronger and more consistent than ever in Tupur. The buckets are so tight with roots that you have to jump up and down on the root ball to break it up. I think SIPS will only help the micros living in the substrate.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> My roots are stronger and more consistent than ever in Tupur. The buckets are so tight with roots that you have to jump up and down on the root ball to break it up. I think SIPS will only help the micros living in the substrate.


Well after running benies last winter I'm sure they did help with over all performance but hard to quantify without me doing a side by. At the end of the run I had a4-5" thick mat 3x3 that was pure white so I can only assume it works. I'm giving the individual pot thing a lot of thought and it may help stay within the new count laws, but nope doubt that lol, pretty much a given that I'll never be able to do that given it's a bunch of fuck heads coming up with these laws that won't accomplish anything but cater to the weekend pot smokers which I'm not lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Well after running benies last winter I'm sure they did help with over all performance but hard to quantify without me doing a side by. At the end of the run I had a4-5" thick mat 3x3 that was pure white so I can only assume it works. I'm giving the individual pot thing a lot of thought and it may help stay within the new count laws, but nope doubt that lol, pretty much a given that I'll never be able to do that given it's a bunch of fuck heads coming up with these laws that won't accomplish anything but cater to the weekend pot smokers which I'm not lol.


No, they're catering to the LPs and trying their damndest to say weed is legal but still make sure the mounties can always bust your grow.

That doesn't sound legal in any way to me.

Nevermind acceptable!


----------



## kiwipaulie (Dec 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @kiwipaulie is doing something similar.


Sure am, doing it in a 1.2m tent but. 1m would be fine, but might not get away with running 1000w, but you could easily get away with a 600.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2016)

kiwipaulie said:


> Sure am, doing it in a 1.2m tent but. 1m would be fine, but might not get away with running 1000w, but you could easily get away with a 600.


I always like hearing about your crops, brother.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2016)

It might be another blind alley, but I don't think so. I smell a revolution coming in how things will be done indoors.

Behold, the first _*overhead*_ light fixtures expressly designed for vertical growing;

New thread elsewhere in this section!


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It might be another blind alley, but I don't think so. I smell a revolution coming in how things will be done indoors.
> 
> Behold, the first _*overhead*_ light fixtures expressly designed for vertical growing;
> View attachment 3859879
> New thread elsewhere in this section!


Who makes them tty?


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Who makes them tty?


Hit up the new thread, it's in the first post.
http://rollitup.org/t/quantums-overhead-in-vertical-grow.930213/#post-13231993


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hit up the new thread, it's in the first post.
> http://rollitup.org/t/quantums-overhead-in-vertical-grow.930213/#post-13231993


Ya I saw it right after I asked, thanks. Just another light for me to look at lol, this shits getting way complicated. I think I'll just stick with what I've got till I have more time to check out all of them, had my heart set on CMH then you all started talking COB's lol. The way this winters been up here I may have a cooling issue, supposed to go to 8 Celsius Monday ..... woohoo fishin trip .


----------



## Flowki (Dec 24, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> By a mile and costs like 60$ for all 9 weeks of flower per room. Wayyyyyyy cheaper than rhizotonic which I've been trying to repla
> 
> Only doesn't benefit if you get salt buildup. I use tupur never get salt buildup has a compost already in it stays inoculated easy even get lil mushrooms and cloves in the tupur growing randomly lol extreme gardening mycos wp


What do you consider value for money on the myko products?. Also wondering if you would consider using the myco+synthetic on other soils like a light mix aka pete moss black & white+perlite. Would it be pointless to use myco+synthetic on a traditional coco mix?.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 24, 2016)

Flowki said:


> What do you consider value for money on the myko products?. Also wondering if you would consider using the myco+synthetic on other soils like a light mix aka pete moss black & white+perlite. Would it be pointless to use myco+synthetic on a traditional coco mix?.


This is what I use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003STB5N6/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_46?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


----------



## Flowki (Dec 24, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> This is what I use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003STB5N6/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_46?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


Have you used it alongside a water soluble (like jacks) synthetic fertilizer?. I assume you use this in a separate feeding to the ferts if synthetic?.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 24, 2016)

Flowki said:


> Have you used it alongside a water soluble (like jacks) synthetic fertilizer?. I assume you use this in a separate feeding to the ferts if synthetic?.


I use this when I pot and up-pot mostly, and add extra to the soil.
I did use it on my outdoor and used Jacks and cant say if it was better off with organic or not, but they had nice roots and growth.
I didnt make teas with it just added it to non chlorinated water or added directly to wet soil


----------



## Flowki (Dec 24, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I use this when I pot and up-pot mostly, and add extra to the soil.
> I did use it on my outdoor and used Jacks and cant say if it was better off with organic or not, but they had nice roots and growth.
> I didnt make teas with it just added it to non chlorinated water or added directly to wet soil


Ah so I imagine you would water with the synthetics first then add an extra half liter or so of myco soon after?, Would it be better not to ph that water?.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 24, 2016)

Flowki said:


> Ah so I imagine you would water with the synthetics first then add an extra half liter or so of myco soon after?, Would it be better not to ph that water?.


I just added Mycos periodically, and on a water only day. I wasnt really over thinking it because the price is so cheap, I just used a scoop every time, and it lasted me a yr.
The root growth I got compared to the other grows was drastic, ph'd water might help, but not really sure if Mycos care about ph, and my water would fall to mid 6 with jacks so I never bothered to mess with it


----------



## Flowki (Dec 24, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> I just added Mycos periodically, and on a water only day. I wasnt really over thinking it because the price is so cheap, I just used a scoop every time, and it lasted me a yr.
> The root growth I got compared to the other grows was drastic, ph'd water might help, but not really sure if Mycos care about ph, and my water would fall to mid 6 with jacks so I never bothered to mess with it


Ok thnx for the info, shame that product you linked is like 4X the price in £ ;p. Will look around for similar.


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 24, 2016)

Flowki said:


> Ok thnx for the info, shame that product you linked is like 4X the price in £ ;p. Will look around for similar.


Look for the 2.2lb/1Kilo size on ebay and see if you can find it locally


----------



## bassman999 (Dec 24, 2016)

Flowki said:


> Ok thnx for the info, shame that product you linked is like 4X the price in £ ;p. Will look around for similar.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Xtreme-Gardening-Mykos-Mycorrhizal-Inoculum-454g-1kg-Hydroponics-Root-Feed-/222101906392?var=&hash=item33b64e23d8:m:mZfKWc1eROT927hkrWj0-Rg


----------



## Flowki (Dec 24, 2016)

bassman999 said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Xtreme-Gardening-Mykos-Mycorrhizal-Inoculum-454g-1kg-Hydroponics-Root-Feed-/222101906392?var=&hash=item33b64e23d8:m:mZfKWc1eROT927hkrWj0-Rg


ahh thnx for the heads up


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2016)

Merry Christmas to one and all!


----------



## brimck325 (Dec 25, 2016)

merry xmas tty!


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 25, 2016)

, thanks tty! Merry Christmas to you too!!!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 31, 2016)

Happy New Year! May it find you happy, well and loved by many!


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 1, 2017)

Thanks tty.....should be an interesting one .


----------



## horribleherk (Jan 1, 2017)

happy new year


----------



## benbud89 (Jan 2, 2017)

Hi TTystik, I came here to ask, how to install my vertical idea. I have 2 200watt cxb3590 3500k. They are on 1m long heatsinks. How many sq ft should I aim for? I have two moby dicks growing tall, and I think I can yield very well with them like this. How tall should I get them before flowering? They go x2-x2.5 in tallness in a regular scrog


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 2, 2017)

benbud89 said:


> Hi TTystik, I came here to ask, how to install my vertical idea. I have 2 200watt cxb3590 3500k. They are on 1m long heatsinks. How many sq ft should I aim for? I have two moby dicks growing tall, and I think I can yield very well with them like this. How tall should I get them before flowering? They go x2-x2.5 in tallness in a regular scrog


Work backwards from your total wattage in bloom; try to aim for 25-30 Watts/sq ft on your target surface. That should also tell you how big your target surface can be with the lights you have. 

I'm happy to help, so keep us posted and feel free to ask more questions!


----------



## benbud89 (Jan 2, 2017)

Cool, thanks, Ill try and see, what I can get away with


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 2, 2017)

benbud89 said:


> Cool, thanks, Ill try and see, what I can get away with


You'll grow great bud at the low end of that range, don't be shy!


----------



## benbud89 (Jan 3, 2017)

Thank you, Ill veg them till theyre almost one meter tall, then Ill flower and bring them slightly outwards, that seems to be how you get the volume of the space. Also, Ill take of my reflectors and run the cobs bare. Ill do it in about two months, once this run is done Thanks ! big thumbs up


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 3, 2017)

benbud89 said:


> Thank you, Ill veg them till theyre almost one meter tall, then Ill flower and bring them slightly outwards, that seems to be how you get the volume of the space. Also, Ill take of my reflectors and run the cobs bare. Ill do it in about two months, once this run is done Thanks ! big thumbs up


I recommend leaving reflectors in place over bare, and I suggest lenses as the best solution available.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jan 4, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I recommend leaving reflectors in place over bare, and I suggest lenses as the best solution available.


Yea but hypothetically, let say one passes on a double yellow and drives like a fucking bone head and is seen by a cop taking his 92 neighbor to dinner and he is off duty. The off duty cop doubles back and gets the said persons license plate who is pulled over in a panic know they just fucked up and put people in a bad situation and could of been way worse. 4 days go by till the cop gets back on duty. He then goes to the said drivers house and writes a crossing double yellow and a reckless driving. No way to beat this? The cop was totally in the right?


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 4, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> Yea but hypothetically, let say one passes on a double yellow and drives like a fucking bone head and is seen by a cop taking his 92 neighbor to dinner and he is off duty. The off duty cop doubles back and gets the said persons license plate who is pulled over in a panic know they just fucked up and put people in a bad situation and could of been way worse. 4 days go by till the cop gets back on duty. He then goes to the said drivers house and writes a crossing double yellow and a reckless driving. No way to beat this? The cop was totally in the right?


Have we recently had a stroke mango lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 4, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> Yea but hypothetically, let say one passes on a double yellow and drives like a fucking bone head and is seen by a cop taking his 92 neighbor to dinner and he is off duty. The off duty cop doubles back and gets the said persons license plate who is pulled over in a panic know they just fucked up and put people in a bad situation and could of been way worse. 4 days go by till the cop gets back on duty. He then goes to the said drivers house and writes a crossing double yellow and a reckless driving. No way to beat this? The cop was totally in the right?


No, because he forgot to wash the chicken.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 4, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Have we recently had a stroke mango lol.


I think it's his way of being sarcastic about my preference for lenses on optical equipment. 

He hasn't brought any evidence, either.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jan 4, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Have we recently had a stroke mango lol.


No but my step daughter was the bitch in that situation and i was just wondering , so decided to ask tty. And no i wasn't asking about optics, i respect what tty has to say about life situations. wanted to know what you guys thought.


----------



## bassman999 (Jan 4, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> No but my step daughter was the bitch in that situation and i was just wondering , so decided to ask tty. And no i wasn't asking about optics, i respect what tty has to say about life situations. wanted to know what you guys thought.


I know you asked Tty, but thought I would add my opinion also if that is ok
I think in that case, then if he didnt cite her at the time he lost the right to to so, but make that stick in court...


----------



## a mongo frog (Jan 4, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> I think in that case, then if he didnt cite her at the time he lost the right to o so, but make that stick in court...


But he was heading to dinner with his neighbor. So I'm not sure. I hope they yank her license. Im mean because of her stupidity she brought a fucking cop to the fucking farm.


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## bassman999 (Jan 4, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> But he was heading to dinner with his neighbor. So I'm not sure. I hope they yank her license. Im mean because of her stupidity she brought a fucking cop to the fucking farm.


I understand what you are saying, I was the stupidest driver as a kid (till like 28 actually) and was a menace on the road.
Nobody wants the cops coming to the door thats for sure!


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 4, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> No but my step daughter was the bitch in that situation and i was just wondering , so decided to ask tty. And no i wasn't asking about optics, i respect what tty has to say about life situations. wanted to know what you guys thought.


Ok, I'd fight it. 

You didn't give me any context so I thought it was just typical RIU lol


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 4, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> But he was heading to dinner with his neighbor. So I'm not sure. I hope they yank her license. Im mean because of her stupidity she brought a fucking cop to the fucking farm.


She needs a serious talking to, to understand the consequences. Maybe not about the grow, but dumb ass driving can be fatal.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 5, 2017)

And that's how shit happens to the careful ones, something that has nothing to do with what's going on, drug related, has the law showing up.


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## ttystikk (Jan 5, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> And that's how shit happens to the careful ones, something that has nothing to do with what's going on, drug related, has the law showing up.


Number one way grows are discovered; domestic violence calls. 
Number two; FIRE. 

Be careful out there.


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## Bbcchance (Jan 5, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Number one way grows are discovered; domestic violence calls.
> Number two; FIRE.
> 
> Be careful out there.


Or just stay away from women and cigarettes, both will kill you and get your grow busted, thanks tty!lol


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## ttystikk (Jan 5, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> Or just stay away from women and cigarettes, both will kill you and get your grow busted, thanks tty!lol


So go gay and grow pot!

Sound advice!


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## Bbcchance (Jan 6, 2017)

Good call! I was thinking go hermit and grow weed, but gay is far less "creepy"


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## pop22 (Jan 6, 2017)

If he didn't file the ticket the day it happened, going to be hard for him to prove. I'd fight it. I don't know about your state but a lawyer here would laugh at a cop who'd done that. and DON'T try to fight it yourself, or they'll stick it to you!



a mongo frog said:


> Yea but hypothetically, let say one passes on a double yellow and drives like a fucking bone head and is seen by a cop taking his 92 neighbor to dinner and he is off duty. The off duty cop doubles back and gets the said persons license plate who is pulled over in a panic know they just fucked up and put people in a bad situation and could of been way worse. 4 days go by till the cop gets back on duty. He then goes to the said drivers house and writes a crossing double yellow and a reckless driving. No way to beat this? The cop was totally in the right?


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jan 6, 2017)

It has been a while since I checked in on this thread, after catching up on the last page I am simply chuffed at the decency of it. We are all shoemonkeys, at best, but this group seems unusually capable of substantive communication. Great discussion. Cheers, ye hoodlums!

In Ered Lithui Mordor it is -23°C and we have 15" of accumated snow in the yard of the fortress. The Nazgûl are grumpy and we orcs have cave fever. In two days we are expected to have warming temperatures, heavy rain and flooding in the streets. We haven't had a winter like this in 30 years. The power of the Dark Lord is rising, just ask Putin about how we elected a cheeto puppet.


----------



## MMJ Dreaming 99 (Jan 6, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> No but my step daughter was the bitch in that situation and i was just wondering , so decided to ask tty. And no i wasn't asking about optics, i respect what tty has to say about life situations. wanted to know what you guys thought.


I once talked to an old grower from Cali then Denver. He said never allow wives or girl friends know about grows. He said he know more dudes in jail because of girl fiends, wives and ex wives. This would probably include step daughters.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jan 6, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Ya I saw it right after I asked, thanks. Just another light for me to look at lol, this shits getting way complicated. I think I'll just stick with what I've got till I have more time to check out all of them, had my heart set on CMH then you all started talking COB's lol. The way this winters been up here I may have a cooling issue, supposed to go to 8 Celsius Monday ..... woohoo fishin trip .


I like how you think! As soon as we get above 0 again I am...wait, it is going to flood. Crap.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jan 6, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> I once talked to an old grower from Cali then Denver. He said never allow wives or girl friends know about grows. He said he know more dudes in jail because of girl fiends, wives and ex wives. This would probably include step daughters.


While I agree with you, I have lived with the same woman for 15+ years, unmarried, and she is chill as fuck. She doesn't consume cannabis, but is anti-prohibition and lets me do what I do with no complaint. Good relationships do exist, but I would say it takes at least 13-15 years to identify them as such.


----------



## Bbcchance (Jan 6, 2017)

Michael Huntherz said:


> While I agree with you, I have lived with the same woman for 15+ years, unmarried, and she is chill as fuck. She doesn't consume cannabis, but is anti-prohibition and lets me do what I do with no complaint. Good relationships do exist, but I would say it takes at least 13-15 years to identify them as such.


Same scenario only on year 10, I consider her my wife, just didn't involve paperwork, figure folks were married before we even had states right?


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jan 6, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> Same scenario only on year 10, I consider her my wife, just didn't involve paperwork, figure folks were married before we even had states right?


Ten years is probably enough, for more stable folks than myself, lol, I am the flighty one.
Big congrats on making it work! If relationships were easy everyone would get it right the first time, or even eventually. My dad finally called it quits with women, he has never been happier.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 6, 2017)

Michael Huntherz said:


> It has been a while since I checked in on this thread, after catching up on the last page I am simply chuffed at the decency of it. We are all shoemonkeys, at best, but this group seems unusually capable of substantive communication. Great discussion. Cheers, ye hoodlums!
> 
> In Ered Lithui Mordor it is -23°C and we have 15" of accumated snow in the yard of the fortress. The Nazgûl are grumpy and we orcs have cave fever. In two days we are expected to have warming temperatures, heavy rain and flooding in the streets. We haven't had a winter like this in 30 years. The power of the Dark Lord is rising, just ask Putin about how we elected a cheeto puppet.


A weather report Tolkien himself would be proud of! 

It only got down to -15F here last night. Total of 9" over the last few days, we'll see an above freezing temperature late this weekend. 

My front door froze shut this morning, and I was sorely tempted to just leave it alone lol


----------



## bassman999 (Jan 6, 2017)

pop22 said:


> If he didn't file the ticket the day it happened, going to be hard for him to prove. I'd fight it. I don't know about your state but a lawyer here would laugh at a cop who'd done that. and DON'T try to fight it yourself, or they'll stick it to you!


Esp since he was off duty at the time he saw it.
Like you said maybe a small town, but that shit wont cut in here in Sacramento


----------



## bassman999 (Jan 6, 2017)

Michael Huntherz said:


> While I agree with you, I have lived with the same woman for 15+ years, unmarried, and she is chill as fuck. She doesn't consume cannabis, but is anti-prohibition and lets me do what I do with no complaint. Good relationships do exist, but I would say it takes at least 13-15 years to identify them as such.


My girl is similar doesnt consume except rarely an edible, but we have been together unmarried 23 yrs.
We would have divorced by now several times if we were married. We dont argue that bad anymore as we are older now though.
Hell my bedroom is all about weed and speakers and she is pretty chill about it. She used to not be able to sleep unless dead quiet, now 2 tents one on each side of bed humming away...


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 6, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> My girl is similar doesnt consume except rarely an edible, but we have been together unmarried 23 yrs.
> We would have divorced by now several times if we were married. We dont argue that bad anymore as we are older now though.
> Hell my bedroom is all about weed and speakers and she is pretty chill about it. She used to not be able to sleep unless dead quiet, now 2 tents on either side of bed humming away...


Didn't she always dream of living in the tropics?


----------



## bassman999 (Jan 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Didn't she always dream of living in the tropics?


No, shes like Dorothy...there; no place like home, there's no place like home!
I wanna get away and sh wont leave the close proximity to the family.
Altough one of her sisters is moving to Hawaii this year sometime.
She is pissed at her BF for taking her away.

My girl says it sounds like the airport here sometimes, I think I need fan silencers


----------



## a mongo frog (Jan 6, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> I once talked to an old grower from Cali then Denver. He said never allow wives or girl friends know about grows.


My wife taught me how to grow. She's been a cannabis farmer since she was a teenager. The hardest part mentally is being a farmer and having kids in high school. Your old grower buddy should of told you "life happens", respecting your neighbors is a must. Basically what you grow buddy was telling you is best to keep ones mouth shut.


----------



## texasjack (Jan 6, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> My wife taught me how to grow. She's been a cannabis farmer since she was a teenager. The hardest part mentally is being a farmer and having kids in high school. Your old grower buddy should of told you "life happens", respecting your neighbors is a must. Basically what you grow buddy was telling you is best to keep ones mouth shut.


Hoping by the time I have teens this weed thing will just be like tomatoes.


----------



## bassman999 (Jan 6, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> My wife taught me how to grow. She's been a cannabis farmer since she was a teenager. The hardest part mentally is being a farmer and having kids in high school. Your old grower buddy should of told you "life happens", respecting your neighbors is a must. Basically what you grow buddy was telling you is best to keep ones mouth shut.





texasjack said:


> Hoping by the time I have teens this weed thing will just be like tomatoes.


I have a 16 yr old and 20 yr old at home and growing for 6-7 yrs now.
I remember my oldest peeking around because she was seeing light in the back bathroom shining under the door.

I also remember wife doing laundry and finding some buds in my younger daughters pillow case


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jan 6, 2017)

My kids are 4 and 7 now, but they've always been taught that everything is flowers


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 6, 2017)

texasjack said:


> Hoping by the time I have teens this weed thing will just be like tomatoes.


Get out of Texas, baby, go go!


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 6, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> My wife taught me how to grow. She's been a cannabis farmer since she was a teenager. The hardest part mentally is being a farmer and having kids in high school. Your old grower buddy should of told you "life happens", respecting your neighbors is a must. Basically what you grow buddy was telling you is best to keep ones mouth shut.


Sound advice, doesn't even matter how legal it is in your neck of the woods.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 6, 2017)

Just by way of general commentary, I've noticed a subtle change of late; the LED grown product is more sought after and commands a premium over the HID grown stuff... to the point where some will deliberately wait for it instead of getting what's on the shelf. 

If nothing else, that's convincing evidence that shitcanning light bulbs is the right move.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jan 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Just by way of general commentary, I've noticed a subtle change of late; the LED grown product is more sought after and commands a premium over the HID grown stuff... to the point where some will deliberately wait for it instead of getting what's on the shelf.
> 
> If nothing else, that's convincing evidence that shitcanning light bulbs is the right move.


No. It just proves you can't grow consistently tolerable shit.

You going to apologize to my wife for reporting her as spam? What kind of man threatens me with violence. Chickens out. And then attacks my woman. 

Oh yeah. You. 

And since I met you in July and ignored everything you preach. I have gained 25% yield consistently and much higher potency and phenotype expression. 

With light bulbs potting soil and 1 bottle of watered down nutes. The light is not the key to quality. Just part of the puzzle. And you don't seem to actually understand the lighting either. 

But yet you keep starting educational threads. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 6, 2017)

Oh god, not again .


----------



## Growdict (Jan 6, 2017)

MMg - if you dont like tty, just ignore him. Everyone is free to their own opinions.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jan 6, 2017)

Growdict said:


> MMg - if you dont like tty, just ignore him. Everyone is free to their own opinions.


Opinions yes. Threats and actions no.


----------



## a mongo frog (Jan 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I've noticed a subtle change of late; the LED grown product is more sought after and commands a premium over the HID grown stuff... to the point where some will deliberately wait for it instead of getting what's on the shelf.


Is this serious or just said as in jokes? Patients/costumers are buying meds based on lights used to garden it? How would anyone know?


----------



## MMJ Dreaming 99 (Jan 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Just by way of general commentary, I've noticed a subtle change of late; the LED grown product is more sought after and commands a premium over the HID grown stuff... to the point where some will deliberately wait for it instead of getting what's on the shelf.
> 
> If nothing else, that's convincing evidence that shitcanning light bulbs is the right move.


What does your friend with the tin foil avatar think about that? As he is a respected grower and a real good guy.

This is really an interesting post because I am having a somewhat heated debate with one of my Sensei's. Sensei #1 said pros only grow with HPS and preferably DE HPS. I tried to talk to him about COBs but he will not listen.

QB boards are so new that discussion would be a total waste of time. 

Sensei #2 is ready to fully embrace QB Boards.

Note that both of these Sensei gurus are in the same league as our tin foil hat friend.  Sensei #1 pulls the numbers that your friend pulls. I am pulling for QB boards because Spring will be coming and the heat of HPS is too much.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 6, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> What does your friend with the tin foil avatar think about that? As he is a respected grower and a real good guy.
> 
> This is really an interesting post because I am having a somewhat heated debate with one of my Sensei's. Sensei #1 said pros only grow with HPS and preferably DE HPS. I tried to talk to him about COBs but he will not listen.
> 
> ...





a mongo frog said:


> Is this serious or just said as in jokes? Patients/costumers are buying meds based on lights used to garden it? How would anyone know?


This is Colorado; I can be much more up front about process and its effect on product here because it's legal. 

When I started running COB LED, people were sceptical, so I'd pull out two jars; same clone, same conditions, same nutes, just grown under different light. 

I'd invite them to guess which was which and they'd never get it wrong.


----------



## MMJ Dreaming 99 (Jan 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> This is Colorado; I can be much more up front about process and its effect on product here because it's legal.
> 
> When I started running COB LED, people were sceptical, so I'd pull out two jars; same clone, same conditions, same nutes, just grown under different light.
> 
> I'd invite them to guess which was which and they'd never get it wrong.


Yeah bro it is Colo and everyone in Colo is a master grower. Just ask them. 

I never met any growers who said they did not grow great weed. LOL! 

The really good ones generally talk the least amount of sh*t.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 6, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> Yeah bro it is Colo and everyone in Colo is a master grower. Just ask them.
> 
> I never met any growers who said they did not grow great weed. LOL!
> 
> The really good ones generally talk the least amount of sh*t.


Truth, spoken right here. 

I let my product do the talking;


----------



## MMJ Dreaming 99 (Jan 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Truth, spoken right here.
> 
> I let my product do the talking;
> View attachment 3870166


+100
BTW- is that a mite? Just kidding. I once had a guy who was a little annoying post a pic and I mentioned you might want to check for mites. He went nuts. LOL! I eventually told him there were no mites. 

Crazy frost! The guys who are really good show their pics, merchandise or they don't say anything.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 7, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> +100
> BTW- is that a mite? Just kidding. I once had a guy who was a little annoying post a pic and I mentioned you might want to check for mites. He went nuts. LOL! I eventually told him there were no mites.
> 
> Crazy frost! The guys who are really good show their pics, merchandise or they don't say anything.


Colorado's dry climate is awesome for growing but it comes with a dark side; every fucking dandelion in the state is an incubator for spidermites, so it's easy to get them and they're a real live bitch to get rid of, doubly so when using industry approved methods.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 7, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> Is this serious or just said as in jokes? Patients/costumers are buying meds based on lights used to garden it? How would anyone know?


Perhaps his own experience but yes that would be a pretty lofty statement regarding dispensaries as a whole .


----------



## pop22 (Jan 7, 2017)

you may or may not be right, but we've heard enough, you want to bitch, do it in a pm, or shut the hell up. I'm not on this thread to listen to you. And I have long since concluded that people who block their profile either have something to hide, or are stinking trouble makers. Which are you?



MichiganMedGrower said:


> No. It just proves you can't grow consistently tolerable shit.
> 
> You going to apologize to my wife for reporting her as spam? What kind of man threatens me with violence. Chickens out. And then attacks my woman.
> 
> ...


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Jan 7, 2017)

pop22 said:


> you may or may not be right, but we've heard enough, you want to bitch, do it in a pm, or shut the hell up. I'm not on this thread to listen to you. And I have long since concluded that people who block their profile either have something to hide, or are stinking trouble makers. Which are you?


Or maybe didn't even know there was a box to check that blocks or un blocks it. 

But thank you for concluding. 

It's unblocked now. Thank you so much for your help.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 7, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Truth, spoken right here.
> 
> I let my product do the talking;
> View attachment 3870166


Wow!!! not much else to say lol


----------



## MMJ Dreaming 99 (Jan 7, 2017)

Okay bro - enough chit chat. Let's see some new pics.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 7, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> Okay bro - enough chit chat. Let's see some new pics.


Gonna be manyana, lights are out.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 8, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> Okay bro - enough chit chat. Let's see some new pics.


Coffee first (see coffee thread for today's flavor), then chronic...


----------



## Bbcchance (Jan 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Coffee first (see coffee thread for today's flavor), then chronic...


I'm having Gevalia coffee with samsara seeds holy grail 69, not the fanciest, but definitely a solid day start


----------



## ChaosHunter (Jan 8, 2017)

Coffee black and only take meds every other night.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 8, 2017)

ChaosHunter said:


> Coffee black and only take meds every other night.


Ascetic.


----------



## Bbcchance (Jan 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Ascetic.


Damn your vocabulary!

as·cet·ic
əˈsedik/
_adjective_

*1*.
characterized by or suggesting the practice of severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, typically for religious reasons.
"an ascetic life of prayer, fasting, and manual labor"
synonyms: austere, self-denying, abstinent, abstemious, self-disciplined, self-abnegating;More

_noun_

*1*.
a person who practices severe self-discipline and abstention.
synonyms: abstainer, puritan, recluse, hermit, anchorite, solitary;
fakir, Sufi, dervish,sadhu;
_archaic_eremite
"a desert ascetic"


----------



## Dirty White Boy (Jan 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Truth, spoken right here.
> 
> I let my product do the talking;
> View attachment 3870166


The cob l.e.d. grown bud destroy the cmh or hps bud. period. It's a dramatic difference. Terpenes are stronger trichome coverage is off the charts density much improved. I've spent over 10 years in the industry from Colorado to cali Washington and Maine, not just growing in a room or closet but in warehouses and massive greenhouses and I'm literally shaking with the desire to blow out a warehouse with this technology. All the hype I hear about snoop og and it was absolutely blown out of the water by I can't remember it was either blue cheese or dog cookies grown with the cob led and the snoop ended up back in the jar after the blind taste test. Still sitting there.


----------



## ChaosHunter (Jan 8, 2017)

Dirty White Boy said:


> The cob l.e.d. grown bud destroy the cmh or hps bud. period. It's a dramatic difference. Terpenes are stronger trichome coverage is off the charts density much improved. I've spent over 10 years in the industry from Colorado to cali Washington and Maine, not just growing in a room or closet but in warehouses and massive greenhouses and I'm literally shaking with the desire to blow out a warehouse with this technology. All the hype I hear about snoop og and it was absolutely blown out of the water by I can't remember it was either blue cheese or dog cookies grown with the cob led and the snoop ended up back in the jar after the blind taste test. Still sitting there.


I'll take some Waylin OG, Willie OG or some Cash OG over anything to do with snoop dogy dog OG lol. Some of the names and to add insult putting OG gets silly, at least to me. Imma old fart.


----------



## Dirty White Boy (Jan 8, 2017)

Idk man 31.7# thc is no joke. That's creeping up on some concentrates. It wasnt just potency it was taste quality overall experience. The led bud was just absolutely better.


----------



## iHearAll (Jan 8, 2017)

this is a comment on ttystickk's thread , .....i mean...subd...


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jan 8, 2017)

As usual looks good man. I been watching the new thread to. I like those boards. I'm thinking they would be perfect for driving with solar panels.

I don't comment a lot but I watch the threads. I have so many threads marked "watch thread" I quit getting notices on a lot of them.


----------



## MMJ Dreaming 99 (Jan 8, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> Damn your vocabulary!
> 
> as·cet·ic
> əˈsedik/
> ...


Sounds like a good grower aka getting his shit done versus most of the growers who " I will do that shit tomorrow" and put the work off for another time. 

"I will deal with those spider mites after I smoke a few bowls and drink a few beers." The spider mites just laugh as they keep munching on his plants.  

LOL!


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 8, 2017)

Any update on your split circuit water chiller hvac thing?


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 8, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Any update on your split circuit water chiller hvac thing?


Um, sure;

It's working like a charm.

Grow cool and RH is on point. Check.
House warm, in January, with subzero temperatures. Check.



EDIT: my gas bill reflects my gas range and dryer... domestic hot water is also handled by the dual circuit unit.


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Um, sure;
> 
> It's working like a charm.
> 
> ...


Are you having to supplement heat at all?
What about a certain trick you eluded to a while back?

Edit: how many wall watts are your rooms pulling and for what hours (unless you can't split household usage vs. Garden us based on electric bil?)


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 8, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Are you having to supplement heat at all?
> What about a certain trick you eluded to a while back?


Supplemental heating? Not even a little. 

Trick? Can you refresh my memory?


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 8, 2017)

I'll see if I can reference the post but see edit in post above


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 8, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> I'll see if I can reference the post but see edit in post above


If you're asking whether I saw a big reducing in my power usage, no. Why not? I chose to take the performance improvement of COB LED as more light instead of less watts. 

It was a good call.


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 8, 2017)

Right not exprcting the bill to go down but to word it thermodynamicaly how many btu of cooling is it actually doing? This of course means nothing without the context of how that power is used, lights, fans, extra cooling...... so in terms of wall watts knowing it will be a mix of led, mh, hps, pumps whatever how much cooling, wild guess..?


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 8, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Right not exprcting the bill to go down but to word it thermodynamicaly how many btu of cooling is it actually doing? This of course means nothing without the context of how that power is used, lights, fans, extra cooling...... so in terms of wall watts knowing it will be a mix of led, mh, hps, pumps whatever how much cooling, wild guess..?


I'm pulling the same watts. It's about the same heat. It is also more yield.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 8, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> I'll see if I can reference the post but see edit in post above


↑
So I'm feeling stupid again tt, this isn't the system that provides cooling to your garden via a water chiller that I assume sits outside?
You've landed in the mind warp corner of grow engineering, brother. I take the heat my HVAC system removes from the grow spaces and use it to stay warm.

Pretty slick, huh? What if I told you I had an even better trick up my sleeve?


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 8, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> ↑
> So I'm feeling stupid again tt, this isn't the system that provides cooling to your garden via a water chiller that I assume sits outside?
> You've landed in the mind warp corner of grow engineering, brother. I take the heat my HVAC system removes from the grow spaces and use it to stay warm.
> 
> Pretty slick, huh? What if I told you I had an even better trick up my sleeve?


Yep I commented about a separate circuit for cooling cobs...


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 8, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> ↑
> So I'm feeling stupid again tt, this isn't the system that provides cooling to your garden via a water chiller that I assume sits outside?
> You've landed in the mind warp corner of grow engineering, brother. I take the heat my HVAC system removes from the grow spaces and use it to stay warm.
> 
> Pretty slick, huh? What if I told you I had an even better trick up my sleeve?


Let's hear it.


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 8, 2017)

I was guessing that was your trick but here's my idea. A ton of assumptions starting with leds being the main heat source and it would be feasible to actively cool with liquid cooled heatsink. That circuit connects to your unit. Instead of indirectly heating the room then needing to cool that air, the heat is (with good design) more effeciently transfered no ?


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 9, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> I was guessing that was your trick but here's my idea. A ton of assumptions starting with leds being the main heat source and it would be feasible to actively cool with liquid cooled heatsink. That circuit connects to your unit. Instead of indirectly heating the room then needing to cool that air, the heat is (with good design) more effeciently transfered no ?


My COB LED modules are already water cooled?


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Let's hear it.


That's what I was gonna ask lol. You've implemented a few "tricks" since that statement .


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 9, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> That's what I was gonna ask lol. You've implemented a few "tricks" since that statement .


I'm not sure if the context of that post. It may be that I was referring to keeping the chips cold using the cold water circuit. The rain for doing it went beyond keeping the grow room cold; it was to exploit the temperature droop curve. The warmer these chips get, the less efficiently they run. The reverse is also true. I ran the chips at 55F to push the efficiency of them beyond what was measured by the standard test conditions of 25C/77F. 

I did not have any instrumentation to document exactly how much more efficient the chips became. Theory said 5-10% better than other ambient temperature plus approaches like passive or even active cooling. 

What I found was that I had trouble keeping my grow space warm enough; with cold COB LED modules, the room stayed in the low 70s and RH was too high. To reiterate; my 6' wide x 12' long x 8' tall space was pulling nearly 5500W and it was too cold! 

This prompted a change in approach; instead of passing cold water through the modules, I sealed them up and have been running them as passively cooled. This has helped plant transpiration and growth, since the modules are running at 125-135F, or about what one would expect from the now passively cooled fixture. 

The water cooling system is still working to cool the room via the water cooled air handlers, they are just now doing it alone, without actively cooling the modules. 

I had problems with the cold modules; as prototypes, they weren't constructed to handle condensation very well, so they dripped with moisture when I ran cold water through them. Some of the lenses leaked and filled with water, damaging the chips inside.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 9, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> That's what I was gonna ask lol. You've implemented a few "tricks" since that statement .


I've been meaning to install hot water baseboard heaters in my grow space, fed by the hot side circuit, to heat the room and provide dehumidification. My HVAC tech has been busy, however.

The delay has given me time to think about the system and I want to try a different approach; I'm going to put the modules back into a water circuit- but this time I'll connect them to the hot side. 'Hot' is relative; only 90-110F. Note this is cooler than running the modules in a purely passive mode.

The advantages include being better able to control the heat entering the growing space, removing excess heat, cooling the chips and still being able to utilize the heat. One more advantage is that there would be no need to shut down the water circuit at night, so the entire array can be used exactly like the hot water baseboards were originally intended for; nighttime heating and RH control.

This may well be even more efficient from an HVAC standpoint since the chiller doesn't need to remove the heat from the chips from the cold circuit and put it into the hot side; it's already there.


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 9, 2017)

Thanks for the morning read. I was not even considering chip effeciency. Seems that cooling below 25c or so any gains in effeciency would be lost to the energy spent for cooling. But if the chips operate at the desired daytime room then it seems to me that alot of the temp management issues would basically self resolve. I like the idea of the baseboards but not sure this will do much for humidity, unless at some point the baseboard temps drop below the dew point.

IMO net zero should be a goal for indoor mj gardens. Mj gardeners have an opportunity to set the ag industry on its ear if we do it right. Current industry standards for this goal are basically nonexistent which is why I started my own garden. Thanks for your work here tt and I'd love to have a beer with ya sometime pm me


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 9, 2017)

Yes connecting to the hot side of the circuit makes more sense now that I re read, though though the opeating temp of the cobs may be above the 77f say at 105f or so seem that any chip effeciency gains beyond this would be lost by the need to heat the room as you stated above. Your last statement about the heat already being there is basically what I was trying to say back in october.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 9, 2017)

So what are you actually cooling that generates the capacity to heat your house and DHW?


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 9, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Thanks for the morning read. I was not even considering chip effeciency. Seems that cooling below 25c or so any gains in effeciency would be lost to the energy spent for cooling. But if the chips operate at the desired daytime room then it seems to me that alot of the temp management issues would basically self resolve. I like the idea of the baseboards but not sure this will do much for humidity, unless at some point the baseboard temps drop below the dew point.
> 
> IMO net zero should be a goal for indoor mj gardens. Mj gardeners have an opportunity to set the ag industry on its ear if we do it right. Current industry standards for this goal are basically nonexistent which is why I started my own garden. Thanks for your work here tt and I'd love to have a beer with ya sometime pm me


Many people have voiced that opinion about cold water being ultimately a wash and y'all missed the obvious point; the heat has to leave the room anyway, so taking it from directly behind the chip gives you a leg up in efficiency. 

That said, the plants don't like freezing in bright light; they need to transpire water to bring nutrients up the stalk and if they don't get it, they starve.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 9, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> IMO net zero should be a goal for indoor mj gardens. Mj gardeners have an opportunity to set the ag industry on its ear if we do it right. Current industry standards for this goal are basically nonexistent which is why I started my own garden. Thanks for your work here tt and I'd love to have a beer with ya sometime pm me


Define 'net zero'. Everything needs power, and greenhouses are absolutely no exception. I agree that we have a huge opportunity to influence the larger world of agriculture, in fact I'm betting my career on it.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 9, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> So what are you actually cooling that generates the capacity to heat your house and DHW?


My grow room. Watts are watts and they still need to be removed. The idea that LED doesn't need active cooling is a myth and the sooner it's busted, the better.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 9, 2017)

I totally agree that cooling lights is a good thing and that's why it's been done for many years with all types of lighting. Anyway to capture and reuse heat is a good thing!as well, just did another dairy farm chiller/heat pump that uses a heat exchanger to capture the heat from the milk to help heat the barn . It has just become code here to instal a drain heat capture coil on all new home construction. As for the net zero it is a lofty goal but a good one. The one reason I have not switched to LED lighting is the fact I may be giving up heat generation that I in fact require for four months, so my thoughts are why not use the lighting to heat as oppose to resistive heating. The product, under LED, does keep me thinking it may be worth it though lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 9, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I totally agree that cooling lights is a good thing and that's why it's been done for many years with all types of lighting. Anyway to capture and reuse heat is a good thing!as well, just did another dairy farm chiller/heat pump that uses a heat exchanger to capture the heat from the milk to help heat the barn . It has just become code here to instal a drain heat capture coil on all new home construction. As for the net zero it is a lofty goal but a good one. The one reason I have not switched to LED lighting is the fact I may be giving up heat generation that I in fact require for four months, so my thoughts are why not use the lighting to heat as oppose to resistive heating. The product, under LED, does keep me thinking it may be worth it though lol.


All I can tell you is that even with LED I have no shortage of heat.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> All I can tell you is that even with LED I have no shortage of heat.


I keep hearing from lots that the heat output has dropped but I guess their running equivalent wattage as opposed to watt per watt. Once you get the lights hooked back up it would be interesting to see how many btu's they actually generate and that would take 5 minutes. It's still gotta be pretty close to 3.5 btu's per watt I would think.


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 9, 2017)

So the better or more effeciently outside inputs (power is one) can be used in base level design the better the design is. Even more so if the need for the input can be eliminated or selfgenerated on premesis for less outlay (primarily cash annd time). Net zero outputs equal inputs, there are no losses. Its not possible so i guess according to tony robbins it wouldnt be a good goal.


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 9, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> So the better or more effeciently outside inputs (power is one) can be used in base level design the better the design is. Even more so if the need for the input can be eliminated or selfgenerated on premesis for less outlay (primarily cash annd time). Net zero outputs equal inputs, there are no losses. Its not possible so i guess according to tony robbins it wouldnt be a good goal.


IMO how this impacts your stated "career bet" well, in a word capitalisim. Like it or not.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jan 9, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> So the better or more effeciently outside inputs (power is one) can be used in base level design the better the design is. Even more so if the need for the input can be eliminated or selfgenerated on premesis for less outlay (primarily cash annd time). Net zero outputs equal inputs, there are no losses. Its not possible so i guess according to tony robbins it wouldnt be a good goal.


Note; Tony Robbins can ride a whole ferris wheel of dicks. Those are my instincts talking. There sure are a lot of people self-helping themselves to other people's money in the self-help industry, but where is the help-others industry? What would that look like? Books and podcasts, and probably overpriced seminars and conferences to teach people how to help other people achieve their goals? That should be a lot more popular. Wouldn't that help us achieve our own goals at the same time? Don't teach a man to fish. Teach him to teach people how to fish. I think considering at least one layer of abstraction beyond what popular "self-help" and "human potential" content usually provides can potentially inform our future actions more meaningfully. There are mind-traps hiding in some of the language used in that business, and I have very little patience for most of the practitioners of that craft. Simon Sinek notwithstanding. Simon Sinek has the right message.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Jan 9, 2017)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Tony Robbins can ride a whole ferris wheel of dicks.


So you are saying Tony Robbins could fall out of the dick tree and hit every branch on the way down huh? LMAO


----------



## bassman999 (Jan 10, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I keep hearing from lots that the heat output has dropped but I guess their running equivalent wattage as opposed to watt per watt. Once you get the lights hooked back up it would be interesting to see how many btu's they actually generate and that would take 5 minutes. It's still gotta be pretty close to 3.5 btu's per watt I would think.


There are some spectrums absent from LED that are present in HID that could posibly acount for the difference in heat, infrared, UV?
Not sure if led has the infrared


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> IMO how this impacts your stated "career bet" well, in a word capitalisim. Like it or not.


Yep.

Nothing wrong with capitalism in the service of the greater good.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> So the better or more effeciently outside inputs (power is one) can be used in base level design the better the design is. Even more so if the need for the input can be eliminated or selfgenerated on premesis for less outlay (primarily cash annd time). Net zero outputs equal inputs, there are no losses. Its not possible so i guess according to tony robbins it wouldnt be a good goal.


I'm creeping up on this goal for certain inputs, like water; my sealed room needs both cooling and dehumidification, which creates a lot of condensate. I use this as base water and add nutrients and reuse it. 

Another member here is experimenting with soil that releases its own co2, eliminating another input requirement.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> There are some spectrums absent from LED that are present in HID that could posibly acount for the difference in heat, infrared, UV?
> Not sure if led has the infrared


No UV for LED, there is some infrared but less is desirable for efficiency.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I keep hearing from lots that the heat output has dropped but I guess their running equivalent wattage as opposed to watt per watt. Once you get the lights hooked back up it would be interesting to see how many btu's they actually generate and that would take 5 minutes. It's still gotta be pretty close to 3.5 btu's per watt I would think.


They're running equivalent lighting, not equivalent wattage; I'M running equivalent wattage- which means my HVAC requirement is relatively unchanged.

I did that because I had problems adequately lighting the large trellis surface area, and then more problems keeping it cool. The efficiency of LED addressed both issues.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Note; Tony Robbins can ride a whole ferris wheel of dicks. Those are my instincts talking. There sure are a lot of people self-helping themselves to other people's money in the self-help industry, but where is the help-others industry? What would that look like? Books and podcasts, and probably overpriced seminars and conferences to teach people how to help other people achieve their goals? That should be a lot more popular. Wouldn't that help us achieve our own goals at the same time? Don't teach a man to fish. Teach him to teach people how to fish. I think considering at least one layer of abstraction beyond what popular "self-help" and "human potential" content usually provides can potentially inform our future actions more meaningfully. There are mind-traps hiding in some of the language used in that business, and I have very little patience for most of the practitioners of that craft. Simon Sinek notwithstanding. Simon Sinek has the right message.


Tony Robbins' books helped me at least a bit. 

That said, I'll definitely seek out Simon Sinek on your recommendation. Self improvement is generally a good investment, I've found.


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 10, 2017)

Maybe this hydronic coolong loop could be incorporated into driveway design? How you ask? 
Heated driveway in winter as a dumping point for the extra heat you still have. Large thermal well in the summer still as long as it's not south facing asphalt and hydronic lines are deep enough. Problem, this system not really useful for someone that lives in florida, but take the $600 for a snowblower, the pita that it is to store, and the 1.5 hrs I spend every time it snows more than 4in....add that up and a driveway heater is sounding real good.
..


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jan 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Tony Robbins' books helped me at least a bit.
> 
> That said, I'll definitely seek out Simon Sinek on your recommendation. Self improvement is generally a good investment, I've found.


As you know, tty I am an inveterate asspipe with harsh words, but I mean well. I am glad you found value there. Sinek has a ton of great videos on youtube, I devoured most of them even though the message is largely the same in all of them. 





And also on youtube, CGP Grey, you will love the CGP Grey stuff, more informational than self-help.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7679C7ACE93A5638


----------



## bassman999 (Jan 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm creeping up on this goal for certain inputs, like water; my sealed room needs both cooling and dehumidification, which creates a lot of condensate. I use this as base water and add nutrients and reuse it.
> 
> Another member here is experimenting with soil that releases its own co2, eliminating another input requirement.


I wasnt sure if the water recovered was safe to use from the Dehumidifier. My thoughts were that it has touched the internal parts and may have taken some chemicals from them.
I never asked anyone, glad to hear I can use it, because its like distilled water I would think.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> I wasnt sure if the water recovered was safe to use from the Dehumidifier. My thoughts were that it has touched the internal parts and may have taken some chemicals from them.
> I never asked anyone, glad to hear I can use it, because its like distilled water I would think.


It isn't 'like' distilled water; it IS distilled water. 0.0 EC. It's better than most people's RO water, lol Even most bottled water is much higher in dissolved minerals, to make it taste better.

As such, it's excellent for use in your nutrient regimen as you can be sure there's basically nothing in it.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Maybe this hydronic coolong loop could be incorporated into driveway design? How you ask?
> Heated driveway in winter as a dumping point for the extra heat you still have. Large thermal well in the summer still as long as it's not south facing asphalt and hydronic lines are deep enough. Problem, this system not really useful for someone that lives in florida, but take the $600 for a snowblower, the pita that it is to store, and the 1.5 hrs I spend every time it snows more than 4in....add that up and a driveway heater is sounding real good.
> ..


I'm way ahead of you; the only problem with this scenario is that I'd need an order of magnitude more heat than the system generates to do my double wide driveway. Plus, summertime is when I'm generating the most heat and that's when the driveway is too hot to serve as a heat sink. 

I may try it anyway, just to see what I can do.


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 10, 2017)

I take issue with this statement



ttystikk said:


> . Plus, summertime is when I'm generating the most heat


You're not generating more heat if you're still using the same 5500w, you've lost the delta t advantage. Driveway too big, go back patio better yet the floor for that new greenhouse. See about glycol based system too, thought it was more effecient at heat xfer and wont freeze. Your ahead, I'll keep picking up the pieces, cascading thermal wells, how deep your pockets?
What if I only want to use a 1000w? I'll die if you say go hid


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## Vnsmkr (Jan 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> It isn't 'like' distilled water; it IS distilled water. 0.0 EC. It's better than most people's RO water, lol Even most bottled water is much higher in dissolved minerals, since it tastes better.
> 
> As such, it's excellent for use in your nutrient regimen as you can be sure there's basically nothing in it.


The guys on that show brainstormers on discovery built one for a guy in So Cal for his gardening outdoors. An outdoor dehumidifier to produce water


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## Budley Doright (Jan 10, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> I take issue with this statement
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Water is better but yup it freezes. And doubt there is enough heat generated to melt ice, heat house, heat water lol. But now if we are talking GEOTHERMAL well that's different .


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## Budley Doright (Jan 10, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> I take issue with this statement
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He needs to remove more BTU's in the summer so yup more heat


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## SSGrower (Jan 10, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> He needs to remove more BTU's in the summer so yup more heat


Think we're on the same page, those "extra" btus are coming from the outside.

My boiler runs at 180 so part of reson for cascade. Water in baseboards is much less, so if boiler could receive "preheated" 120deg ish water.....

Trick is the balance point for almost all scenarios is different.

Just a bit of mental masturbation.


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## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> I take issue with this statement
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Delta T between cold side and hot side is called the temperature gradient. This number gets bigger at the expense of capacity and ultimately efficiency.

Therefore, the trick is to run the numbers close together, yet just far enough apart to do their respective jobs.

This is much harder for the unit to accomplish the hotter it gets outside.


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## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Water is better but yup it freezes. And doubt there is enough heat generated to melt ice, heat house, heat water lol. But now if we are talking GEOTHERMAL well that's different .


Now, that's more like it!


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## ttystikk (Jan 10, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Think we're on the same page, those "extra" btus are coming from the outside.
> 
> My boiler runs at 180 so part of reson for cascade. Water in baseboards is much less, so if boiler could receive "preheated" 120deg ish water.....
> 
> ...


The big O in this case is nonetheless more useful than a sticky mess. 

The room is well sealed, it's outside temperature that changes from winter to simmer, not the inside!


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## Budley Doright (Jan 11, 2017)

Boiler return temp would be above 130 (unless condensing) so yes anything you generate above that could be used. Better use would be a lower temp DHW system with buffer tank preheated IMO.


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## SSGrower (Jan 11, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Boiler return temp would be above 130 (unless condensing) so yes anything you generate above that could be used. Better use would be a lower temp DHW system with buffer tank preheated IMO.


You sound like someone with hvac experience. I'll defer to the professionals to work out the feasibility, logistics, and economics of it all. You're right about return temp I was more thiking of the few gallons trapped in the system since it was on last. Small potatoes for sure, I agree DHW preheat.


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## ttystikk (Jan 11, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Boiler return temp would be above 130 (unless condensing) so yes anything you generate above that could be used. Better use would be a lower temp DHW system with buffer tank preheated IMO.


My entire hot side runs between 95-105F and keeps my house warm in spite of a few design flaws (like blowing through the hot side heat exchange core instead of drawing through it).


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## Budley Doright (Jan 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> My entire hot side runs between 95-105F and keeps my house warm in spite of a few design flaws (like blowing through the hot side heat exchange core instead of drawing through it).


That should not be an issue really most hot water coil airhandler's are blow through, as long as the blower is designed and sized properly should be good. If changing to baseboard choose wisely and be sure they are low temp rated if you want peak effiency. They are quite popular due to the advent of condensing boilers that need to keep temps low to condense.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 11, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> You sound like someone with hvac experience. I'll defer to the professionals to work out the feasibility, logistics, and economics of it all. You're right about return temp I was more thiking of the few gallons trapped in the system since it was on last. Small potatoes for sure, I agree DHW preheat.


I'm a refrigeration mechanic but dabble in all HVAC .


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## Godfather420 (Jan 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> That should not be an issue really most hot water coil airhandler's are blow through, as long as the blower is designed and sized properly should be good. If changing to baseboard choose wisely and be sure they are low temp rated if you want peak effiency. They are quite popular due to the advent of condensing boilers that need to keep temps low to condense.


Low temp baseboard heaters? interesting! got any manufactures names.... Probably just look like a care radiator vs a fin tube eh?


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## Godfather420 (Jan 12, 2017)

http://www.hhtsystems.com/eco-con-radiator/
Nice! check these babies!


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## ttystikk (Jan 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> That should not be an issue really most hot water coil airhandler's are blow through, as long as the blower is designed and sized properly should be good. If changing to baseboard choose wisely and be sure they are low temp rated if you want peak effiency. They are quite popular due to the advent of condensing boilers that need to keep temps low to condense.


Delta T is insufficient for a blow thru solution so flipping the blower around to draw through the core will make the difference, I'm sure of it.

You want to blow through cold water cores, not hot ones. This approach puts compression heating to work for you. Not applicable to water as it's incompressible.


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## ttystikk (Jan 12, 2017)

Godfather420 said:


> http://www.hhtsystems.com/eco-con-radiator/
> Nice! check these babies!


I snagged a bunch of radiators from 1980s Volvos from the local junkyard and built them into water cooled air handlers. Because there was no added manufacturing needed, just some fittings, I guarantee my solution was far more eco friendly than those!


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## Budley Doright (Jan 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Delta T is insufficient for a blow thru solution so flipping the blower around to draw through the core will make the difference, I'm sure of it.
> 
> You want to blow through cold water cores, not hot ones. This approach puts compression heating to work for you. Not applicable to water as it's incompressible.


It depends on the coil design really but again it doesn't matter much that I'm aware of. Again most hot water airhandlers have the coil above the blower . What's compression heating?


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## Budley Doright (Jan 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I snagged a bunch of radiators from 1980s Volvos from the local junkyard and built them into water cooled air handlers. Because there was no added manufacturing needed, just some fittings, I guarantee my solution was far more eco friendly than those!


Way to go you Eco warrior . I buy old stuff because I'm cheap lol. Perhaps due to design of the new stuff your energy usage would be less, now that you've used the old shit they need raw materials for the new shit . Just saying lol.


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## ttystikk (Jan 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> It depends on the coil design really but again it doesn't matter much that I'm aware of. Again most hot water airhandlers have the coil above the blower . What's compression heating?


Try this experiment if you don't think it makes a difference;

Hook up a vent fan to blow thru a hood and fire up a thouie in it. When the lamp gets hot, start the fan. Let it all run for an hour and take measurements or just use your hands. How hot is the hood?

Now flip the fan around so it sucks air through the hood. Leave the lamp running so nothing cools, then let it run for just 5 minutes and take more measurements.

You tell me which one runs cooler.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Try this experiment if you don't think it makes a difference;
> 
> Hook up a vent fan to blow thru a hood and fire up a thouie in it. When the lamp gets hot, start the fan. Let it all run for an hour and take measurements or just use your hands. How hot is the hood?
> 
> ...


No lol. All I'm saying is most if not all hot water airhandlers I have installed or seen have the coil on top, so I doubt it matters much not arguing sheeesh. I don't care where you put it lol. All im saying is I doubt it makes much difference but if you think so then cool (pardon the pun) change it.


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## ttystikk (Jan 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> No lol. All I'm saying is most if not all hot water airhandlers I have installed or seen have the coil on top, so I doubt it matters much not arguing sheeesh. I don't care where you put it lol. All im saying is I doubt it makes much difference but if you think so then cool (pardon the pun) change it.


The experiment I suggested will tell you that indeed it does make a substantial difference whether you pull or push air through a core. You want to push warm air through a cold coil to cool it more effectively and pull cool air through a hot core to heat it most efficiently. It isn't rocket science, is simple physics; in this case gas law.

The reason it 'doesn't seem to matter' is down to the temp if the water in the core; they want 160-180F, at 100 degrees is a big enough delta T that the inefficiency is masked. I'm running a delta T of only 25F, so it's a big difference.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The experiment I suggested will tell you that indeed it does make a substantial difference whether you pull or push air through a core. You want to push warm air through a cold coil to cool it more effectively and pull cool air through a hot core to heat it most efficiently. It isn't rocket science, is simple physics; in this case gas law.
> 
> The reason it 'doesn't seem to matter' is down to the temp if the water in the core; they want 160-180F, at 100 degrees is a big enough delta T that the inefficiency is masked. I'm running a delta T of only 25F, so it's a big difference.


Cool


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## Budley Doright (Jan 12, 2017)

http://mobile.rheem.com/products/heating_and_cooling/air_handlers/
This is just one of the airhandlers that I'm used to working on but there pretty much all the same. You'll notice the cooling coil on most is pull through and the water coil is blow through. So my thoughts would be, can't be a huge difference but they may be doing it all wrong I guess. Most AC coils are on top of a (most popular) gas furnace but that has nothing to do with effeincy if perhaps that is what your thinking .


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## Budley Doright (Jan 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The experiment I suggested will tell you that indeed it does make a substantial difference whether you pull or push air through a core. You want to push warm air through a cold coil to cool it more effectively and pull cool air through a hot core to heat it most efficiently. It isn't rocket science, is simple physics; in this case gas law.
> 
> The reason it 'doesn't seem to matter' is down to the temp if the water in the core; they want 160-180F, at 100 degrees is a big enough delta T that the inefficiency is masked. I'm running a delta T of only 25F, so it's a big difference.


No you don't want a delta t of 100 in a conventional boiler that is running 180, I would be installing replacement boilers every day lol. They would be giant piles of rust .


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## ttystikk (Jan 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> No you don't want a delta t of 100 in a conventional boiler that is running 180, I would be installing replacement boilers every day lol. They would be giant piles of rust .


No one wants a room at 180F. 180-100=80, comfy. We don't seem to be communicating very well, I'm the first to admit that I don't know the industry jargon very well and I could be misusing it.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> No one wants a room at 180F. 180-100=80, comfy. We don't seem to be communicating very well, I'm the first to admit that I don't know the industry jargon very well and I could be misusing it.


No pretty sure we're talking water temp drop across the coil and a return temp that low will cause the unit to condense (flue gases) and that's a bad thing. I'm still trying to figure out what the gas law has to do with hydronic heating lol.


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## ttystikk (Jan 13, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> No pretty sure we're talking water temp drop across the coil and a return temp that low will cause the unit to condense (flue gases) and that's a bad thing. I'm still trying to figure out what the gas law has to do with hydronic heating lol.


Oh we are definitely NOT talking about the same thing! 
1. No flue, not burning any gas for heat
2. The hot water in the coil does not cool that much, it flows quickly
3. My use of delta T refers to the difference between working fluid temperature and air temperature in the house
4. The chiller is outside and also does not use gas; it's just a compressor that pulls heart from a cold side water circuit and dumps it into a hot side water circuit

Clear as mud?


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## Budley Doright (Jan 13, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Oh we are definitely NOT talking about the same thing!
> 1. No flue, not burning any gas for heat
> 2. The hot water in the coil does not cool that much, it flows quickly
> 3. My use of delta T refers to the difference between working fluid temperature and air temperature in the house
> ...


i guess it was the 180 that confused me, is that what your supply water is, that's hot huh. I know your system quite well actually, we take it a step further and install air to water heatpumps for even more effeincy and control. Actually just touched base with one of the larger med grows in Canada about the system. Anywhooo I showed you one of the many residential air handling units I deal with that are blow through so that is why I assumed it really didn't matter and didn't think you needed to change your design but hey go ahead, perhaps you will find a new cutting edge way to redesign an airhandler. You should measure the heat removal of what your running now and compare. If you use the actual flow and delta t of the water it would be way more accurate .


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## ttystikk (Jan 13, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> i guess it was the 180 that confused me, is that what your supply water is, that's hot huh. I know your system quite well actually, we take it a step further and install air to water heatpumps for even more effeincy and control. Actually just touched base with one of the larger med grows in Canada about the system. Anywhooo I showed you one of the many residential air handling units I deal with that are blow through so that is why I assumed it really didn't matter and didn't think you needed to change your design but hey go ahead, perhaps you will find a new cutting edge way to redesign an airhandler. You should measure the heat removal of what your running now and compare. If you use the actual flow and delta t of the water it would be way more accurate .


Really I'm just a tinkerer. Water temp on the hot side rarely exceeds 110F and is usually about 100. That's why I need to use every trick I can to maximize the heat I get from it.


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## SSGrower (Jan 13, 2017)

So could it be fan effeciency is the reason for push vs. pull? What's more expensive cfm or btu?


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## ttystikk (Jan 13, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> So could it be fan effeciency is the reason for push vs. pull? What's more expensive cfm or btu?


 No, Sir; as I said above, it's the delta T resulting from the change in pressure between the fan and the core, which acts as a restriction. 

Pushing air compresses and therefore heats it. Passing that air through a cold core maximizes delta T, because of the extra heating between fan and core. Once the air passes through the core, pressure and therefore temperature drops. If that core is hot, then the pressure drop works against you in heating the air. The harder you push, the greater the effect and the less efficiently it will draw heat from the core. 

Conversely, if you draw the air through a cold core then the pressure DROP between core and fan reduces delta T and makes it less efficient. Again; the harder you run the fan, the bigger the pressure drop and the worse it performs. If the core is hot, then the air, being colder due to the pressure drop, sees a bigger temperature change between itself and the core; delta T is larger and efficiency is improved. 

This is why I suggested the experiment above, so you can see and feel the difference for yourself. It's not trivial! 

If the BTus are free then of course CFM costs more.


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## SSGrower (Jan 13, 2017)

No need for convincing look at an air compressor.
Making some sense now for the situation. In cooling (summertime house cooling) does the hot side still stay 100-110?


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## ttystikk (Jan 13, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> No need for convincing look at an air compressor.
> Making some sense now for the situation. In cooling (summertime house cooling) does the hot side still stay 100-110?


I didn't hook up the hot side until November so I'm not sure.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> No, Sir; as I said above, it's the delta T resulting from the change in pressure between the fan and the core, which acts as a restriction.
> 
> Pushing air compresses and therefore heats it. Passing that air through a cold core maximizes delta T, because of the extra heating between fan and core. Once the air passes through the core, pressure and therefore temperature drops. If that core is hot, then the pressure drop works against you in heating the air. The harder you push, the greater the effect and the less efficiently it will draw heat from the core.
> 
> ...


ummm nope this is not a compressor and not a cylinder. Now I see where you were going with the gas laws lol. Gas laws pertain to an enclosed space not an airhandler .


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## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> ummm nope this is not a compressor and not a cylinder. Now I see where you were going with the gas laws lol. Gas laws pertain to an enclosed space not an airhandler .


Why not? Why should laws of physics apply in some places and not others? 

TRY THE EXPERIMENT.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 14, 2017)

You stated the gas laws tty, which one I'm not sure. They apply to a closed vessel not an air handler. . Just answer one question and that would be, As I'm sure you've googled, why are the majority of residential AH's push through heat and pull through cold? Also do you honestly believe you are compressing the air (as in the gas laws) and that is adding btu's to the air? Keep in mind the pressure drop is like .1"wc over the coil. You keep mentioning compression but you are not compressing anything. as a "consultant" on, I assume energy savings in a grow as you have stated you are, you should be the one to be able to prove your statements with actual numbers not me. I'm not a grow room consultant just a HVAC guy . SHOW ME THE DATA lol


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## Jaybodankly (Jan 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm way ahead of you; the only problem with this scenario is that I'd need an order of magnitude more heat than the system generates to do my double wide driveway. Plus, summertime is when I'm generating the most heat and that's when the driveway is too hot to serve as a heat sink.
> 
> I may try it anyway, just to see what I can do.


Could capture the heat in a hotwater tank and use it for domestic hot water.


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## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> You stated the gas laws tty, which one I'm not sure. They apply to a closed vessel not an air handler. . Just answer one question and that would be, As I'm sure you've googled, why are the majority of residential AH's push through heat and pull through cold? Also do you honestly believe you are compressing the air (as in the gas laws) and that is adding btu's to the air? Keep in mind the pressure drop is like .1"wc over the coil. You keep mentioning compression but you are not compressing anything. as a "consultant" on, I assume energy savings in a grow as you have stated you are, you should be the one to be able to prove your statements with actual numbers not me. I'm not a grow room consultant just a HVAC guy . SHOW ME THE DATA lol


I tried; you refused.

Unified gas law accounts for volume changes as well as temperature and pressure.


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## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2017)

Jaybodankly said:


> Could capture the heat in a hotwater tank and use it for domestic hot water.


In point of fact, I do exactly that!


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## Budley Doright (Jan 14, 2017)

Refused what? I'm still trying to understand where we are compressing anything. Yes the volume increases proportionally with temp. It may surprise you but my understanding of the gas laws (all of them) is quite good, It's the basis for my particular trade . Really the only law that actually pertains to an airhandler is the one stated and even then does nothing for the addition of BTU's. You are not compressing the air, your moving it. Please prove me wrong so I can say I learned something today, that's a good thing . I guess until there is actual proof then we can agree to disagree. I do have a hard time imagining an airhandler design (most) that would not use the more effecient blower placement. Again if you feel the need to change it then perfect nothing wrong with that .


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Refused what? I'm still trying to understand where we are compressing anything. Yes the volume increases proportionally with temp. It may surprise you but my understanding of the gas laws (all of them) is quite good, It's the basis for my particular trade . Really the only law that actually pertains to an airhandler is the one stated and even then does nothing for the addition of BTU's. You are not compressing the air, your moving it. Please prove me wrong so I can say I learned something today, that's a good thing . I guess until there is actual proof then we can agree to disagree. I do have a hard time imagining an airhandler design (most) that would not use the more effecient blower placement. Again if you feel the need to change it then perfect nothing wrong with that .


You refused to do the experiment I suggested. If you think there is no difference between a fan blowing through a core and drawing through it, then we have no common ground upon which to discuss anything further.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> You refused to do the experiment I suggested. If you think there is no difference between a fan blowing through a core and drawing through it, then we have no common ground upon which to discuss anything further.


Well then ok lol. I rather enjoyed it . I win lol.


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## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Well then ok lol. I rather enjoyed it . I win lol.


I did the experiment I suggested and then applied the results to my own air handlers and other equipment. It works, and it continues to work even with small temperature differentials.

I consider THAT winning.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I did the experiment I suggested and then applied the results to my own air handlers and other equipment. It works, and it continues to work even with small temperature differentials.
> 
> I consider THAT winning.


What was the heat of extraction with one versus the other?


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## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> What was the heat of extraction with one versus the other?


I didn't use a thermometer. The metal hood was almost too hot to keep your hand on it when blowing through the enclosure to cool it; when the fan was flipped to pull air through, the metal became cool to the touch.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I didn't use a thermometer. The metal hood was almost too hot to keep your hand on it when blowing through the enclosure to cool it; when the fan was flipped to pull air through, the metal became cool to the touch.


.


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## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> What was the heat of extraction with one versus the other?


Define heat of extraction?


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## Budley Doright (Jan 14, 2017)

It is the actual heat in btu's that is removed or added to the water or antifreeze mix. it's a great tool when discussing actual savings at a per btu cost comparison with other systems or fuels when consulting. 
GPM x Delta T x fluid factor (water is 500) = BTU's per hour
Glycol fluid factor @ 30% is 485 give or take 3 or 4. It can be done with air as well but not very accurate and a tad more complicated.


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## ttystikk (Jan 14, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> It is the actual heat in btu's that is removed or added to the water or antifreeze mix. it's a great tool when discussing actual savings at a per btu cost comparison with other systems or fuels when consulting.
> GPM x Delta T x fluid factor (water is 500) = BTU's per hour
> Glycol fluid factor @ 30% is 485 give or take 3 or 4. It can be done with air as well but not very accurate and a tad more complicated.


...and utterly irrelevant to the physical effect I'm discussing.


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## Dirty White Boy (Jan 14, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> It is the actual heat in btu's that is removed or added to the water or antifreeze mix. it's a great tool when discussing actual savings at a per btu cost comparison with other systems or fuels when consulting.
> GPM x Delta T x fluid factor (water is 500) = BTU's per hour
> Glycol fluid factor @ 30% is 485 give or take 3 or 4. It can be done with air as well but not very accurate and a tad more complicated.



Huh? Irrelevant?


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## Dirty White Boy (Jan 14, 2017)

Try is 100℅ right.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 14, 2017)

Dirty White Boy said:


> Try is 100℅ right.


Thank you, I thought so to lol.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> ...and utterly irrelevant to the physical effect I'm discussing.


Well ok then lol.


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## Budley Doright (Jan 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> ...and utterly irrelevant to the physical effect I'm discussing.


Never said it was, it's a way to accurately (really the only way) test your theory, not by touching metal lol, oh and you asked lol. And I would just like to add that this whole thing is about the effeincy of an air handler not your misinterpretation of the laws you state. Not once have you explained how it increases the heat content of the air other than heat of compression, that never happens so not one of them. Tty I am not attacking what you are doing as I think it's a good thing. You seemed to get all attitude Judy when I said I didn't think it was necessary to change your blower position. I also said go ahead many times. It was you who became all condescending with your "its physics and not rocket science statement", your right it's not. The heat of extraction formula, as I said earlier, is just another tool you can use in your work as a "consultant" to help sell your recommendations, glad I could help . If you want to continue this discussion perhaps you could use one of the many formulas that are available to prove your theory, I would love to see where the heat of compression comes in to play.


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## ttystikk (Jan 15, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Never said it was, it's a way to accurately (really the only way) test your theory, not by touching metal lol, oh and you asked lol. And I would just like to add that this whole thing is about the effeincy of an air handler not your misinterpretation of the laws you state. Not once have you explained how it increases the heat content of the air other than heat of compression, that never happens so not one of them. Tty I am not attacking what you are doing as I think it's a good thing. You seemed to get all attitude Judy when I said I didn't think it was necessary to change your blower position. I also said go ahead many times. It was you who became all condescending with your "its physics and not rocket science statement", your right it's not. The heat of extraction formula, as I said earlier, is just another tool you can use in your work as a "consultant" to help sell your recommendations, glad I could help . If you want to continue this discussion perhaps you could use one of the many formulas that are available to prove your theory, I would love to see where the heat of compression comes in to play.


TL;DR
"It works"- well enough to make a big difference. 
That's my equation lol


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## Budley Doright (Jan 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> TL;DR
> "It works"- well enough to make a big difference.
> That's my equation lol


Great response .


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## Budley Doright (Jan 15, 2017)

What is your capacity as a consultant? I would have thought some of the information given would be helpful, sorry you took it as criticism. And I'm still waiting to hear where the compression part comes in to play. That's the reason you stated as to how this increases the btu output and I would like to learn how. Actually you have failed to answer anything with any relevance other than "it works", I'm sure a client would love to see some actual numbers. Got any pics of your pull through air handlers.


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## SSGrower (Jan 15, 2017)

I notice when I run my shop vac my garage gets warmer. Not saying this is how I suggest you heat your garage but it is a nice side effect when I have to do some cleaning. I prefer to evaluate things for myself and can respect that tt does too.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> TL;DR
> "It works"- well enough make a big
> That's my equation lol





SSGrower said:


> I notice when I run my shop vac my garage gets warmer. Not saying this is how I suggest you heat your garage but it is a nice side effect when I have to do some cleaning. I prefer to evaluate things for myself and can respect that tt does too.


So do I. And the reason for that is the motor I would think, may want to check the filter lol.
Edit: and yes maybe compression ....puts hand to forehead lol.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 15, 2017)

I got some more LED lights and I'll be using them to replace my 860W CDM lamps.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Jan 20, 2017)

Hey bro, how many cob lights would you recommend if I did 3 walls of a 4x4 tent. Would I need to hang 2 -3 pointing at each wall, or would I need more. Just trying to work out how many I'll need to cover the side and back walls and I'll leave the front open for access


----------



## pop22 (Jan 20, 2017)

I'd bet 12 Quantum boards run at 75 watts each would be about perfect. Thats 300 watts per wall plus tons of reflected light, you'll need a welding mask to see in there!



kiwipaulie said:


> Hey bro, how many cob lights would you recommend if I did 3 walls of a 4x4 tent. Would I need to hang 2 -3 pointing at each wall, or would I need more. Just trying to work out how many I'll need to cover the side and back walls and I'll leave the front open for access


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 20, 2017)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey bro, how many cob lights would you recommend if I did 3 walls of a 4x4 tent. Would I need to hang 2 -3 pointing at each wall, or would I need more. Just trying to work out how many I'll need to cover the side and back walls and I'll leave the front open for access


Total square footage times target watts per square foot. That watts per square foot number can be slightly lower if you're driving more chips at lower watts because they'll be more efficient.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 20, 2017)

pop22 said:


> I'd bet 12 Quantum boards run at 75 watts each would be about perfect. Thats 300 watts per wall plus tons of reflected light, you'll need a welding mask to see in there!


This is a good place to start.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 20, 2017)

Would it not be better to use ppfd to figure out the needed light? Everything I read, of which confuses the hell out of me I might add, says ppfd when calculating needed light using LED. I'm about to embark on the LED adventure as well but again I'm very confused lol.


----------



## Shugglet (Jan 24, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Would it not be better to use ppfd to figure out the needed light? Everything I read, of which confuses the hell out of me I might add, says ppfd when calculating needed light using LED. I'm about to embark on the LED adventure as well but again I'm very confused lol.


Par watts are an easier metric to work with. But yes, ppfd is what you are aiming for.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 25, 2017)

Shugglet said:


> Par watts are an easier metric to work with. But yes, ppfd is what you are aiming for.


I'm sure it is far easier but everything I read (well almost lol) says that basing needed light coverage using watts for LED is not really helpful in maximizing their use. Again I know shit about it and I'll be another of the follow the herd types lol.


----------



## Shugglet (Jan 25, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I'm sure it is far easier but everything I read (well almost lol) says that basing needed light coverage using watts for LED is not really helpful in maximizing their use. Again I know shit about it and I'll be another of the follow the herd types lol.


Just because you set your ppfd at an arbitrary number does not mean you are "maximizing" your light. There's no way to actually maximize your light other than to experiment and see what the plant can handle. And being that there are multiple ways to adjust ppfd, there are tons of different ways that maximum can be achieved. As a footnote though, it should be noted that an even light spread is important when trying to get the maximum out of your light. So on that note, the new quantum boards look very promising.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 25, 2017)

Shugglet said:


> Just because you set your ppfd at an arbitrary number does not mean you are "maximizing" your light. There's no way to actually maximize your light other than to experiment and see what the plant can handle. And being that there are multiple ways to adjust ppfd, there are tons of different ways that maximum can be achieved. As a footnote though, it should be noted that an even light spread is important when trying to get the maximum out of your light. So on that note, the new quantum boards look very promising.


Oh good more confusion, ok I'll get to reading again lol.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 25, 2017)

Shugglet said:


> Just because you set your ppfd at an arbitrary number does not mean you are "maximizing" your light. There's no way to actually maximize your light other than to experiment and see what the plant can handle. And being that there are multiple ways to adjust ppfd, there are tons of different ways that maximum can be achieved. As a footnote though, it should be noted that an even light spread is important when trying to get the maximum out of your light. So on that note, the new quantum boards look very promising.


Thanks and now it's actually somewhat starting to make some sense, I hope lol. PPFD is the actual the PAR at a given location under light? Anyways I'll keep reading but tty if your getting rid of the old lights there might be a guy interested in Canada .


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 25, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Thanks and now it's actually somewhat starting to make some sense, I hope lol. PPFD is the actual the PAR at a given location under light? Anyways I'll keep reading but tty if your getting rid of the old lights there might be a guy interested in Canada .


What, my HID lighting and magnetic ballasts?


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> What, my HID lighting and magnetic ballasts?


No your ceramic lights . I've got a pile of magnetic ballasts, I pulled a muscle moving them last week lol. I'm thinking a couple of 315's would suit my setup for now.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 26, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> No your ceramic lights . I've got a pile of magnetic ballasts, I pulled a muscle moving them last week lol. I'm thinking a couple of 315's would suit my setup for now.


They're 860W


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> They're 860W


Pretty sure the shipping would be a killer but if your selling them PM me.


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Jan 29, 2017)

Free webinar from Dr. Ingham, be there or be square:

https://app.webinarjam.net/live/1506/5773297357/0/87860931


----------



## gr865 (Jan 29, 2017)

DesertGrow89 said:


> Free webinar from Dr. Ingham, be there or be square:
> 
> https://app.webinarjam.net/live/1506/5773297357/0/87860931


In the early 2000's I was working in Sacramento and went to Corvalis for Elaines classes, was very eye opening. I took the Basic Microbiology, Composting and Compost Tea and the Microscope classes. They were great, I was the first Golf Course Superintendent she had every had in her classes.

Have you heard of or tried EM, after I took her courses I became of big user of organics on my course. I have been mixing compost in my sand mixes for topdressing greens and tee's prior to meeting her. But after the classes I began making/buying/blending compost and custom tea's for all areas of the facility. Started using EM in the process in about 2002. When I left California in 2008 I was using near 80% organics on the course. Had cut my fert/chemical budgets by about 55%. 

I still use both compost and tea's on my place since I retired. I raise my own herd of composting worms. It's hard to get good compost here so I buy a well made vegan compost and use my vermicompost with the vegan to make my teas. I have not used any commercial fert on my garden since I moved here 7 yrs ago.

I would love to do and organic outdoor grow.

GR


----------



## DesertGrow89 (Jan 29, 2017)

gr865 said:


> In the early 2000's I was working in Sacramento and went to Corvalis for Elaines classes, was very eye opening. I took the Basic Microbiology, Composting and Compost Tea and the Microscope classes. They were great, I was the first Golf Course Superintendent she had every had in her classes.
> 
> Have you heard of or tried EM, after I took her courses I became of big user of organics on my course. I have been mixing compost in my sand mixes for topdressing greens and tee's prior to meeting her. But after the classes I began making/buying/blending compost and custom tea's for all areas of the facility. Started using EM in the process in about 2002. When I left California in 2008 I was using near 80% organics on the course. Had cut my fert/chemical budgets by about 55%.
> 
> ...


The webinar was interesting, nothing I haven't read in a book before. I disagree with her idea that all chemical fertilizers are bad, especially on a small scale some people prefer soilless and hydro, there's nothing wrong with that. There are way too many people on the planet to start with building regenerative organic soils today, too much of our soils have already been destroyed and most farmers only care about making a quick dollar. BioAg makes an excellent quality product called VAM, I recommend it. They are an employee owned company and one can call them with any questions, check amzn for their products. If you have the space to do it, why not set aside an area where you can grow plants that can be composted. I recommend how to grow more vegetables by john jeavons.


----------



## JDMase (Jan 31, 2017)

NaturalFarmer said:


> View attachment 3847842 View attachment 3847843 View attachment 3847844 View attachment 3847845
> Thought these may interest you. I have a love for orchards. Scion anyone?


http://blog.theenduringgardener.com/garden-maintenance/prune-like-a-pro/

Saw this and im thinking I like the look of growing this way. I reckon the U candelabra style could be done by topping maybe if you had a wide wall with not much height, but ttystik you said earlier in the thread that you don't top? I was planning to try a vert grow with my next bunch. I like the idea of training the stems into a nice design so once I trim away all the leaves and buds I can make them into a trellis for my next ones. Not sure how it'll go yet.


----------



## thccbdhealth (Feb 10, 2017)

@ttystikk Any photo's of your current garden?
are you still planning on replacing all your cmh with more qb boards?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2017)

thccbdhealth said:


> @ttystikk Any photo's of your current garden?
> are you still planning on replacing all your cmh with more qb boards?


I had a bad infestation of cops a couple weeks ago, I was only able to save a dozen plants. "Legalization" seems to mean different things to different people, depending on their agenda.

I'll put some pics up. This thread is loaded with pics, they're just down right now because this site was attacked.

I have water cooled COB LED module and 4' x 250W LED bars for all my needs at the moment. I'm sure I'll be getting more quantum board fixtures in the near future.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2017)

JDMase said:


> http://blog.theenduringgardener.com/garden-maintenance/prune-like-a-pro/
> 
> Saw this and im thinking I like the look of growing this way. I reckon the U candelabra style could be done by topping maybe if you had a wide wall with not much height, but ttystik you said earlier in the thread that you don't top? I was planning to try a vert grow with my next bunch. I like the idea of training the stems into a nice design so once I trim away all the leaves and buds I can make them into a trellis for my next ones. Not sure how it'll go yet.


I do top and train to get the shape I want.


----------



## Fastslappy (Feb 10, 2017)

So what happened?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> So what happened?


They took all but 12 of my plants due to city ordinance that trumps my medical card. I got a ticket.


----------



## Fastslappy (Feb 10, 2017)

That's gonna happen here soon


----------



## Fastslappy (Feb 10, 2017)

Better than cuffs like sum here on riu


----------



## pineappleman420 (Feb 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> They took all but 12 of my plants due to city ordinance that trumps my medical card. I got a ticket.


Fuckers


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 10, 2017)

Why did the cops come in the first place?
They looking through walls and saw more than 12??

Sorry to hear this BS dude


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 10, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> Why did the cops come in the first place?
> They looking through walls and saw more than 12??
> 
> Sorry to hear this BS dude


electric bill


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 10, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> electric bill


Search warrant based on elec bill, wow so power companies overcharge and snitch...bitches!!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> Search warrant based on elec bill, wow so power companies overcharge and snitch...bitches!!


And where were my rights during all this, anyway?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> And where were my rights during all this, anyway?


What rights? You are owned by the State of Trump  lol, just kidding


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> And where were my rights during all this, anyway?


I was just telling eastcoastmo earlier legal in US isnt really legal with crooked cops


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 11, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> What rights? You are owned by the State of Trump  lol, just kidding


I'm not laughing. Sadly, I think that's precisely his game; to see just how far he can push his autocracy.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 11, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> I was just telling eastcoastmo earlier legal in US isnt really legal with crooked cops


EVERYTHING is crooked here.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm not laughing. Sadly, I think that's precisely his game; to see just how far he can push his autocracy.


Yip I happen to agree, but I think thats his handlers pushing that agenda, hes just the batshit crazy motherfucker who everyone thinks is doing it (and is easily blamed). I don't claim to know who his handlers are but I know he doesnt control shit.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> EVERYTHING is crooked here.


Yes


----------



## JDMase (Feb 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm not laughing. Sadly, I think that's precisely his game; to see just how far he can push his autocracy.


Sorry to hear about your loss, can we not find a silver lining though? Im sure there'll be one


----------



## BobBitchen (Feb 11, 2017)

damn Tty, sorry to hear about this. As someone else said, at least your not in cuffs bro......
ain't nothing legal about weed yet......


----------



## SomeGuy (Feb 11, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yip I happen to agree, but I think thats his handlers pushing that agenda, hes just the batshit crazy motherfucker who everyone thinks is doing it (and is easily blamed). I don't claim to know who his handlers are but I know he doesnt control shit.


That would be Bannon.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 11, 2017)

SomeGuy said:


> That would be Bannon.


Never heard of him SG, but thats not surprising since Im disconnected from any of that shit. I see who he is now. I dont think he is big enough to control things, I meant larger than that....


----------



## greg nr (Feb 11, 2017)

I hear that particular pest can be hard to get rid of. Once they get into your garden, you can't really get rid of them. You basically have to move 50 or 60 miles.

Hopefully, you can find a way to keep them manageable. I suspect they are here as well. Just a matter of time before they begin appearing.


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> EVERYTHING is crooked here.


THIS
How many executive orders has Trump signed already?
More than Obama in 8 years maybe?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 11, 2017)

during the "election" it was made to look like the "democrats" didnt want that crazy moron in office, all a sham. Now there is someone there that people love to hate so the powers that be have a scapegoat to blame shit on, and he's such a fucking moron he doesnt care, tis all greenbacks to him.....


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 11, 2017)

He's just the idiot face....no more no less


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> during the "election" it was made to look like the "democrats" didnt want that crazy moron in office, all a sham. Now there is someone there that people love to hate so the powers that be have a scapegoat to blame shit on, and he's such a fucking moron he doesnt care, tis all greenbacks to him.....


He likes seeing hs ugly mug.
He thinks ppl watch his show because they like not laugh at him


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> He's just the idiot face....no more no less


Same old tactic US uses, like Obama, but they seem to get worse each time


----------



## horribleherk (Feb 11, 2017)

hey ttystikk just stopped by to thank you for your input as my grow is really shaping up thankful for the bassman too now about the government...... well at the end of the day the people are still the people & government is still government I imagine as the Declaration of Independence was being signed money was changing hands just the tip of the iceberg


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 11, 2017)

horribleherk said:


> hey ttystikk just stopped by to thank you for your input as my grow is really shaping up thankful for the bassman too now about the government...... well at the end of the day the people are still the people & government is still government I imagine as the Declaration of Independence was being signed money was changing hands just the tip of the iceberg


I'm fighting the good fight.


----------



## Fastslappy (Feb 12, 2017)

U need a photovoltaic solar array


----------



## Grandpapy (Feb 12, 2017)

....no. Sorry to here this Tty


----------



## greg nr (Feb 12, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> U need a photovoltaic solar array


Probably wouldn't help. They would see a 5kw array on your roof and wonder why you aren't selling any back to the utility company.


----------



## lilroach (Feb 12, 2017)

I'm worried about being flagged for my electric bill.....it's hard to explain why a mobile home is using about $275 worth of electricity a month. Ty......were you using a "smart meter"? How much juice were you using a month to get tagged?


----------



## JDMase (Feb 12, 2017)

If it's an electricity thing then I do know some growers here (large scale) have been known to use diesel generators.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

Grandpapy said:


> ....no. Sorry to here this Tty


Ya, sucks bro.

I'll be back, bigger than ever. You'll see!


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

lilroach said:


> I'm worried about being flagged for my electric bill.....it's hard to explain why a mobile home is using about $275 worth of electricity a month. Ty......were you using a "smart meter"? How much juice were you using a month to get tagged?


My bill was over 5 times yours.


----------



## lilroach (Feb 12, 2017)

Whoa! I would guess the cops figured out you had more than a dozen plants with a bill like that.

Sadly NY is not a legal state and if I'm flagged by the utility company (yeah, they do that) I'll lose everything. Those "smart meters" can determine who's using timers and high amounts of wattage and send that info to the mother ship. Thankfully my meter is old.


----------



## horribleherk (Feb 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> My bill was over 5 times yours.


as long as you paid for the power it's yours?... right???? here you're on a tier program once you get past the baseline usage the price just keeps going up my friend was running 6 1,000 watt lights plus the t-5 veg. room ac. etc... pg&e was through the roof he ended up with solar panels on the roof which softens the blow & splits the bill he did end up with the cops coming in & finding everything because of all things a domestic dispute after the dust settled he is getting ready to fire back up on a smaller scale. Ttystikk there is not a doubt in my mind a man of your knowledge is gonna overcome this & then some


----------



## Budley Doright (Feb 12, 2017)

I watch the daily read out online of my uasage and you'd have to be an idiot not to see what is happening, spike every 11-12 hours, same time every day lol


----------



## Walterwhiter (Feb 12, 2017)

horribleherk said:


> as long as you paid for the power it's yours?... right???? here you're on a tier program once you get past the baseline usage the price just keeps going up my friend was running 6 1,000 watt lights plus the t-5 veg. room ac. etc... pg&e was through the roof he ended up with solar panels on the roof which softens the blow & splits the bill he did end up with the cops coming in & finding everything because of all things a domestic dispute after the dust settled he is getting ready to fire back up on a smaller scale. Ttystikk there is not a doubt in my mind a man of your knowledge is gonna overcome this & then some


For all the hype and paranoia...it's always dumb as domestic local pd level shit that gets guys...


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

Walterwhiter said:


> For all the hype and paranoia...it's always dumb as domestic local pd level shit that gets guys...


And house fires. I also got a ticket for a new ordinance in my city; no HID lighting inside residences. I'm sure I can get it dropped, as I was intending to switch to LED and the lights are already here.


----------



## Walterwhiter (Feb 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> And house fires. I also got a ticket for a new ordinance in my city; no HID lighting inside residences. I'm sure I can get it dropped, as I was intending to switch to LED and the lights are already here.


Lol if I go big I'll go cob... extra electric, Faraday cages the whole 9...the solar panel ideas are something I've thought about 2...hypothetically  I just grow some taters in the yard...


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

horribleherk said:


> as long as you paid for the power it's yours?... right???? here you're on a tier program once you get past the baseline usage the price just keeps going up my friend was running 6 1,000 watt lights plus the t-5 veg. room ac. etc... pg&e was through the roof he ended up with solar panels on the roof which softens the blow & splits the bill he did end up with the cops coming in & finding everything because of all things a domestic dispute after the dust settled he is getting ready to fire back up on a smaller scale. Ttystikk there is not a doubt in my mind a man of your knowledge is gonna overcome this & then some


I should think so...

Fuck 'em; I'm going to grow my legal limit, use the same power I did and make them TWICE as big!

Where before I grew monsters up against the walls, now I'll grow them to fill in BOTH sides, that's front and back of the trellis!

I'm betting I can grow three pounders, maybe even four. Anyone wanna bet I can't?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

Walterwhiter said:


> Lol if I go big I'll go cob... extra electric, Faraday cages the whole 9...the solar panel ideas are something I've thought about 2...hypothetically  I just grow some taters in the yard...


No need for Faraday cage unless you're running cheap Chinese high frequency ballasts for light bulbs; LED runs on DC current which emits no EMI.


----------



## GroErr (Feb 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I should think so...
> 
> Fuck 'em; I'm going to grow my legal limit, use the same power I did and make them TWICE as big!
> 
> ...


Lol, that's the attitude, 12x 4lbs and legal, when do you start vegging? I'm seeing COBs and Quantum panels, maybe some solar to offset the costs. Then again, do at least one or two rounds without solar so they come back to inspect your grow, blow the fuckers away


----------



## Walterwhiter (Feb 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> No need for Faraday cage unless you're running cheap Chinese high frequency ballasts for light bulbs; LED runs on DC current which emits no EMI.


The more you know....I set up a half assed cage with a microwave...I have an Apollo 600w...cell,wifi,satalite,coax internet, all works without a hitch...that paranoia...but hey I'm a good neighbor too


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, that's the attitude, 12x 4lbs and legal, when do you start vegging? I'm seeing COBs and Quantum panels, maybe some solar to offset the costs. Then again, do at least one or two rounds without solar so they come back to inspect your grow, blow the fuckers away


I can do 6 in veg and 6 in bloom. The 6 in veg are already here, I just gotta rebuild the room for the new config. I'm thinking 6-8 weeks of veg, then bloom.


----------



## GroErr (Feb 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I can do 6 in veg and 6 in bloom. The 6 in veg are already here, I just gotta rebuild the room for the new config. I'm thinking 6-8 weeks of veg, then bloom.


Those Quantum boards would work well for double-sided vertical. A (grape) vine layout comes to mind when picturing the layout for something like that...


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Those Quantum boards would work well for double-sided vertical. A (grape) vine layout comes to mind when picturing the layout for something like that...


Espalier techniques are well established in vineyards.


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I watch the daily read out online of my uasage and you'd have to be an idiot not to see what is happening, spike every 11-12 hours, same time every day lol


I want to have 2 tents alternate so its even all the time


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> I want to have 2 tents alternate so its even all the time


 Run then in the same room on flip schedule so room temps always stay the same.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 12, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> I want to have 2 tents alternate so its even all the time


Or you could do 3 tents


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Run then in the same room on flip schedule so room temps always stay the same.


Yeah I am running same time right now and it was a mistake, but was worried the light in bedroom would bleed into tent.
My bedroom so that makes it harder


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Or you could do 3 tents


Thats what I want to do one veg one flower and one for breeding or flowering depending on what I need.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> Yeah I am running same time right now and it was a mistake, but was worried the light in bedroom would bleed into tent.
> My bedroom so that makes it harder


Wear a blindfold to sleep.

Kinky fun, too...


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Wear a blindfold to sleep.
> 
> Kinky fun, too...


I mean for the plants to have dark so no herm issues. I have generic tents.
Light leaks have given me problems in the past with old tent


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 12, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> I mean for the plants to have dark so no herm issues. I have generic tents.
> Light leaks have given me problems in the past with old tent


Turn them so the front's face away from each other. Keep them closed unless you're checking on them.


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Turn them so the front's face away from each other. Keep them closed unless you're checking on them.


One in closet, and other in front of window, so they face each other, but the tv and bedroom lights could leak as well as window light.
Some panda film could help, but look tacky.


----------



## Big_Lou (Feb 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Wear a blindfold to sleep.
> 
> Kinky fun, too...


I used to wear a blindfold when going down on my ex-wife....picture the Predator's mouth ringed with horse-like hair.


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 12, 2017)

Big_Lou said:


> I used to wear a blindfold when going down on my ex-wife....picture the Predator's mouth ringed with horse-like hair.


lol


----------



## Budley Doright (Feb 12, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> I want to have 2 tents alternate so its even all the time


That would work ..... if only I had the room . Not that I worry about it though. If they want to spend the money to investigate what I do now so be it, it ain't much lol.


----------



## Walterwhiter (Feb 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I watch the daily read out online of my uasage and you'd have to be an idiot not to see what is happening, spike every 11-12 hours, same time every day lol


Depends on how much? The power company wants to keep charging you..some people do laundry, run ac, and other appliances at night because of cooler temp and lower usage cost...

Power company getting police involve would take unsafe usage or theft of service...they'll keep taking your money


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 12, 2017)

Walterwhiter said:


> Depends on how much? The power company wants to keep charging you..some people do laundry, run ac, and other appliances at night because of cooler temp and lower usage cost...
> 
> Power company getting police involve would take unsafe usage or theft of service...they'll keep taking your money


This is usually the case I agree. Some people work from with high usage equipment also.


----------



## a mongo frog (Feb 12, 2017)

Walterwhiter said:


> Depends on how much? The power company wants to keep charging you..some people do laundry, run ac, and other appliances at night because of cooler temp and lower usage cost...
> 
> Power company getting police involve would take unsafe usage or theft of service...they'll keep taking your money


I understand what your saying, but i get the feeling times are changing. I think the slut fucking police is getting this power bill info from up stairs, just to make sure the rec weed stays on tax dollar par. They don't want the regular community members growing better weed then their shit weed. Not saying colorodo rec weed is bad, but i saw some washington state recreational weed and it was total trash, Mexican brick is better. Another reason not to build the wall............ The Hispanics are out doing washington states rec weed........


----------



## Walterwhiter (Feb 12, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> I understand what your saying, but i get the feeling times are changing. I think the slut fucking police is getting this power bill info from up stairs, just to make sure the rec weed stays on tax dollar par. They don't want the regular community members growing better weed then their shit weed. Not saying colorodo rec weed is bad, but i saw some washington state recreational weed and it was total trash, Mexican brick is better. Another reason not to build the wall............ The Hispanics are out doing washington states rec weed........


Sry I'm thinking deep underground....


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## Big_Lou (Feb 12, 2017)

bassman999 said:


> This is usually the case I agree. Some people work from with high usage equipment also.


My "high usage equipment" is going to consist of a coffee can, a tin foil-rigged lamp, and a spray bottle from Dollar Tree.


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## Walterwhiter (Feb 12, 2017)

Pigs ain't that savy around here...folks usually grow gorilla here..


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## a mongo frog (Feb 12, 2017)

Walterwhiter said:


> folks usually grow it the old fashion way around here..


You mean like with the sun?


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## Walterwhiter (Feb 12, 2017)

a mongo frog said:


> You mean like with the sun?


Ya....shitty with chemicals.


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## Budley Doright (Feb 13, 2017)

It's a bit different up here as it's all illegal so they could theoretically bust you for one plant and will if they fall in it . As for the power record sharing, what happened to tty got me looking into the legalities here. If you do not check the non disclosure box there is no need for a warrant and the cops only need to ask. I checked the box last week lol. If tty would have been caught up here there is a huge chance his house would have been listed as a grow OP on the property records and a chance they would try to take the house as well. It can only get better right?


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

Lol, yeah, but Tty is not up there, his house isnt in your state, neither is he, so why think about all these if's....I would consider moving if its that shitty, sounds about like Louisiana laws. Backwards ass shit


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## Budley Doright (Feb 13, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> Lol, yeah, but Tty is not up there, his house isnt in your state, neither is he, so why think about all these if's....I would consider moving if its that shitty, sounds about like Louisiana laws. Backwards ass shit


It's Canada .


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> It's Canada .


Well its not the legality laws there so much is it, but the ones that gives LP's all the power? I dont know I'm asking...Can you not grow in your province?


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## Budley Doright (Feb 13, 2017)

Just sayin it could have been worse  also to educate people to look at their providers policies closely.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

Yeah, hey I wasnt knocking ya just wondering why you were saying if Tty were here, etc....Canada and US 2 completely different animals I guess...but your situation sounds more like deep south bullshit laws from what you were talking about


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## Budley Doright (Feb 13, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> Well its not the legality laws there so much is it, but the ones that gives LP's all the power? I dont know I'm asking...Can you not grow in your province?


No you can't. There are a few exceptions for grandfathered CG'ers but there are only a handful of legal providers and all legal transactions must be done mailorder with a prescription. Things are changing re Liberal government but we'll see how that plays out.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

What area are you in, not province, but east, central, west? Its not locked down like that for all of homegrows in Canada is it?


----------



## Grandpapy (Feb 13, 2017)

Luckily in Nor Cal PG&E needs the money to replace gas lines, they sent a notice a few years back about the/my increase and offered an energy audit. I think they are hesitant about giving up their best customers.


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## GroErr (Feb 13, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> What area are you in, not province, but east, central, west? Its not locked down like that for all of homegrows in Canada is it?


There's only 3 _legal_ ways to obtain meds here.
1) Buy from the new dealers called LP's (Licensed Producers aka big buck business) through the mail if you can get a script signed by a doctor. Typically crap and only available through mail-order at $10-$15/g.
2) Register under the new ACMPR (Access to Cannabis for Medical Purposes Regulations) which came into effect last August. You can grow your own. The plant allowance is 5 indoor or 2 outdoor per gram of script. e.g. 5g/day script = 25 indoor or 10 outdoor.
3) Find a Designated Grower (easier said than done), make a deal with them to grow your script. Main issue with this is DG's can only grow for up to 4x patients and the grow cannot be in your primary residence. That takes some costs/investment and few are willing to do it because the regs are so untested.

Everything else including dispensaries which are all over the West coast and the odd one sprinkled across the country, are all illegal. Some areas like BC have been very tolerant and have been operating for years. But they are illegal and over the last year they've been cracking down/busting them left & right.

All 3 legal ways of getting meds are full of holes and the regulations/procedures being new aren't tested. Even if you have a license, there's no real protection like insurance coverage, potentially getting your property flagged as a grow op, potential inspections. Legally, you're supposed to buy clones/seeds from LP's, yet few offer them or offer crap. Doctors are reluctant to sign off on grow scripts and Health Canada (they manage the program) is encouraging doctors to minimize scripts or keep them at 5g/day or below. And you have to keep getting the scripts signed, some as often as every 3 months.

In other words the system is a cluster f*ck of thinly defined regulations with untested rules. It's easier to just stay under the radar if you can.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

GroErr said:


> There's only 3 _legal_ ways to obtain meds here.
> 1) Buy from the new dealers called LP's (Licensed Producers aka big buck business) through the mail if you can get a script signed by a doctor. Typically crap and only available through mail-order at $10-$15/g.
> 2) Register under the new ACMPR (Access to Cannabis for Medical Purposes Regulations) which came into effect last August. You can grow your own. The plant allowance is 5 indoor or 2 outdoor per gram of script. e.g. 5g/day script = 25 indoor or 10 outdoor.
> 3) Find a Designated Grower (easier said than done), make a deal with them to grow your script. Main issue with this is DG's can only grow for up to 4x patients and the grow cannot be in your primary residence. That takes some costs/investment and few are willing to do it because the regs are so untested.
> ...


Thats what I thought, so #2 is allowable throughout the entire country eh? I know the other 2 means are fucked. What if the person say only juices, so needs a very high plant count, is there one which is "unlimited" under ACMPR?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

and by unlimited I am referring to the 5g/day script etc...


----------



## GroErr (Feb 13, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> Thats what I thought, so #2 is allowable throughout the entire country eh? I know the other 2 means are fucked. What if the person say only juices, so needs a very high plant count, is there one which is "unlimited" under ACMPR?


Yes, the ACMPR grow license is available to all Canadians... if they can get a doctor to sign off on a script. That's the catch, whether it's 1g/day or 100g/day, you have to find a doctor who will sign off and they're being discouraged by the government to sign anything larger than 5g/day, regardless of what your needs are. For edibles/concentrates 5g/day is bull-shit and that's what most true patients need/want (edibles).


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## GroErr (Feb 13, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> and by unlimited I am referring to the 5g/day script etc...


Only folks who tend to have larger scripts are grandfathered under the old program. It'll be tough to get anything above 5g/day scripts but doable.

My doc will sign off 5g/day any time I want it but I don't trust the man and from what I've seen so far all it does is put you into a list which they may change/revoke later. F*ck that, I've been under the radar for 30+ years and smoking for 40+, I don't need no stinking permit!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

Thanks for clearing that up. My point was you can grow across the country yourself. Thats more progressive than alot of places still.


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Only folks who tend to have larger scripts are grandfathered under the old program. It'll be tough to get anything above 5g/day scripts but doable.
> 
> My doc will sign off 5g/day any time I want it but I don't trust the man and from what I've seen so far all it does is put you into a list which they may change/revoke later. F*ck that, I've been under the radar for 30+ years and smoking for 40+, I don't need no stinking permit!


once an outlaw always an outlaw for me, always been fuck em, no different now


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> No you can't. There are a few exceptions for grandfathered CG'ers but there are only a handful of legal providers and all legal transactions must be done mailorder with a prescription. Things are changing re Liberal government but we'll see how that plays out.


So what do you mean no you can't? You can't what?


----------



## Budley Doright (Feb 13, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> What area are you in, not province, but east, central, west? Its not locked down like that for all of homegrows in Canada is it?


I'm in Eastern Ontario and yes it's a federal thing not provincial. Last government fucked it all up .


----------



## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

I understand Budley, but this is what I was asking.....*"Yes, the ACMPR grow license is available to all Canadians... "*


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## Budley Doright (Feb 13, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> I understand Budley, but this is what I was asking.....*"Yes, the ACMPR grow license is available to all Canadians... "*


I think there is some confusion here. No you can not grow your own meds. Yes you can purchase it, with a scrip, from one of 38 licensed suppliers in Canada and it's sent through the mail. There were a few growers that are grandfathered in before laws changed, that can grow their own meds, they won an injunction. But we'all see what happens this spring, not much I fear. And yup best to stay under the wire at this point .


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

Ok, others say different, but anyway, not my concern, was only curious. Yep always best to stay under radar anyway....


----------



## Budley Doright (Feb 13, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Only folks who tend to have larger scripts are grandfathered under the old program. It'll be tough to get anything above 5g/day scripts but doable.
> 
> My doc will sign off 5g/day any time I want it but I don't trust the man and from what I've seen so far all it does is put you into a list which they may change/revoke later. F*ck that, I've been under the radar for 30+ years and smoking for 40+, I don't need no stinking permit!


The ones that were grandfathered were registered growers before the law changed and under the injunction they are allowed to continue, subject to inspections. Not sure of all the details, I thought it best not to apply either lol.


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## Budley Doright (Feb 13, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> Ok, others say different, but anyway, not my concern, was only curious. Yep always best to stay under radar anyway....


But there are 7 store front dispensaries within an hour where I can buy pot, all illegal of course, but there on reserves, right beside the tax free smoke store lol.


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## zzerg85 (Feb 26, 2017)

hello. 
i'm really not lazy but 205 pages of information isn't something i can go through within a few weeks and random jumping did not get me the info i was hoping for.
i would like to ask for your professional opinion instead if it's not too much trouble for you.
would my 2ftx4ftx4ft tent be capable to grow vertical more efficiently than my current horizontal setup? 
i have 2 quantum boards with a slate2 heatsink 1050ma driver
i was planing on harvesting at around 10 zips with cap'n style top feed in rockwool cubes horizontally from one or two plant. probably scrogged
could i make more bud out of my resources with your grow method?
is there anything else i could improve on my method?
kind regards x


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## ttystikk (Feb 26, 2017)

zzerg85 said:


> hello.
> i'm really not lazy but 205 pages of information isn't something i can go through within a few weeks and random jumping did not get me the info i was hoping for.
> i would like to ask for your professional opinion instead if it's not too much trouble for you.
> would my 2ftx4ftx4ft tent be capable to grow vertical more efficiently than my current horizontal setup?
> ...


That's a small rectangle. If you can find ways to grow on the walls such that you're covering more surface area than the floor, you're ahead. I can't offer a lot of specific help because I've never attempted a vertical grow in such a small space.

Your biggest issue may well be achieving the needed clearance between light source and canopy.


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## zzerg85 (Feb 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> That's a small rectangle. If you can find ways to grow on the walls such that you're covering more surface area than the floor, you're ahead. I can't offer a lot of specific help because I've never attempted a vertical grow in such a small space.
> 
> Your biggest issue may well be achieving the needed clearance between light source and canopy.


thanks for the reply
i bumped into your harvest photos on every 10th page or so while i was looking for answers / you seem to harvest exclusively  / and i was impressed with your results. how long do you veg your plants on those pics with 3lb yield?
have you thought about making a guide on vertical growing? or you might already have one. as i said earlier this thread is very very long. im sure lots of good information but a package deal would be sweet


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## ttystikk (Feb 26, 2017)

zzerg85 said:


> thanks for the reply
> i bumped into your harvest photos on every 10th page or so while i was looking for answers / you seem to harvest exclusively  / and i was impressed with your results. how long do you veg your plants on those pics with 3lb yield?
> have you thought about making a guide on vertical growing? or you might already have one. as i said earlier this thread is very very long. im sure lots of good information but a package deal would be sweet


That's what I'm contemplating right now, as it happens. What would you like to see on the subject? Books? Tutorials? Equipment? YouTube videos?


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## zzerg85 (Feb 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> That's what I'm contemplating right now, as it happens. What would you like to see on the subject? Books? Tutorials? Equipment? YouTube videos?


that's great news !
from my beginner grower perspective your method and yields are unbelievable. im sure many other people like me visits this thread thinking the same thing. we dont know much about a lot of things. so if you prepare a guide i would suggest you to save some time on answering stupid questions in the future and make it simple and explain not just what you do but why you do it this way. im a visual learner and i think most people learn easier with pictures,even videos if you have the passion to fck around with editing etc. think of it as something people will remember you from long after you are gone : ) so make sure the end result is something you can be proud of and will educate generations to come.
explain not just what vertical growing means but how you produced your results in detail, your own experience. make a few chapters /equipment,nutes/training methods etc..., might be too much to write all that knowledge at once. you could call it "How to 50 zip"

good luck


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## avnewb (Feb 27, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I had a bad infestation of cops a couple weeks ago....
> 
> I have water cooled COB LED module and 4' x 250W LED bars for all my needs at the moment. I'm sure I'll be getting more quantum board fixtures in the near future.


Sorry to here but when you can tell me more about these water cooled COB lights. You just use CPU coolers setup for water?

I like your vertical scrog. Do you just do a single plant deep grown tall with vertical cobs like I saw posted in scrog thread:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/cob-grow-amnisia-cheese-sugar-something.931923/

Doing a standard scrog in my room did not make work this time. I cut the strings I spent hours tying right after moving plants from veg to flower room. I will have less plants next round but still not sure a standard scrog will be ideal. Maybe just topping and LSTing like I did this time is what will work best in my space. Maybe add some some vertical vero10 cobs so I can increase the height but still get good penetration down low.


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## ttystikk (Feb 27, 2017)

avnewb said:


> Sorry to here but when you can tell me more about these water cooled COB lights. You just use CPU coolers setup for water?
> 
> I like your vertical scrog. Do you just do a single plant deep grown tall with vertical cobs like I saw posted in scrog thread:
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/cob-grow-amnisia-cheese-sugar-something.931923/
> ...


You've asked some deep questions. I'm running big plants to maximize plant counts. I do it vertically to gain best use of limited space available.

Water cooled COB LED is a way to get sufficient light to the additional canopy space created without excess heat buildup.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 28, 2017)

thought i would stop by and get myself some vertical goodness before i head to work


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## Nugachino (Mar 2, 2017)

Dammit. I was looking for answers on water cooling a cob or 3...

Also. I like this vert grow. Looks trippy. Keep on kicking ass ttyystikk.


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## gr865 (Mar 2, 2017)

TS, I have a question, have you smoked any thai stick? I use to get it when stationed in the Philippines, what a distinctive flavor and lite headed stone. I got their in the 60's when all we were smoking at home was the cheap ol' Mexican Mini-Bricks, half seed, quarter stem so you got about a quarter of not very good dirt weed. 

On your new gig, I would like to see something in a tutorial on cobs.

GR


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## ttystikk (Mar 2, 2017)

Nugachino said:


> Dammit. I was looking for answers on water cooling a cob or 3...
> 
> Also. I like this vert grow. Looks trippy. Keep on kicking ass ttyystikk.


I will not stop my life's work. There may be delays for a prison term lol, but my work hurts no one and has the potential to benefit many.

If there are any questions I can answer for you regarding your water cooled project, please don't hesitate to ask me!


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 2, 2017)

gr865 said:


> TS, I have a question, have you smoked any thai stick? I use to get it when stationed in the Philippines, what a distinctive flavor and lite headed stone. I got their in the 60's when all we were smoking at home was the cheap ol' Mexican Mini-Bricks, half seed, quarter stem so you got about a quarter of not very good dirt weed.
> 
> On your new gig, I would like to see something in a tutorial on cobs.
> 
> GR


Thai stick was/is a heady stone because its dipped in opium.


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## gr865 (Mar 3, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> Thai stick was/is a heady stone because its dipped in opium.


From Wikipedia:
The Thai sticks exhibited considerably higher potency in comparison with other cannabis available in Western countries at the time. This added potency was rumored to be caused by the Thai sticks being dipped in opium or in hash oil. However, the more widely accepted reason is that Thai cannabis growers had for hundreds of years selected seeds from their strongest plants, which coupled with Thailand's long growing season, high temperatures, and rich volcanic soil, conspired to produce an exceptionally potent product.

At the time we would not have know if it was dipped or not. We did get opium laced hash, beautiful stuff, a soft based hash with strips and specs of opium. The selling point a lot of dealers did at the time was to take a ball of the hash and cut it into quarters to show the stripping laced thru the hash. Cool stuff back then.


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## ttystikk (Mar 3, 2017)

gr865 said:


> From Wikipedia:
> The Thai sticks exhibited considerably higher potency in comparison with other cannabis available in Western countries at the time. This added potency was rumored to be caused by the Thai sticks being dipped in opium or in hash oil. However, the more widely accepted reason is that Thai cannabis growers had for hundreds of years selected seeds from their strongest plants, which coupled with Thailand's long growing season, high temperatures, and rich volcanic soil, conspired to produce an exceptionally potent product.
> 
> At the time we would not have know if it was dipped or not. We did get opium laced hash, beautiful stuff, a soft based hash with strips and specs of opium. The selling point a lot of dealers did at the time was to take a ball of the hash and cut it into quarters to show the stripping laced thru the hash. Cool stuff back then.


I've never smoked any, but my folks did and they told me it definitely had opium in it.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Mar 3, 2017)

so did i..it was definitely just great weed..not saying yer folks didn't

i did however
get hash before with some narcotic in it..it was unbelievably good..
just do not over smoke


----------



## Lucky Luke (Mar 3, 2017)

Being in Australia were you guys got Mexican brick we got Thai. It was normal strength pot to us as thats what was available. Thai stick was a level above and defintaly was dipped in opium.. Not saying some smart entrepreneur wasn't selling an inferior product under its name.Whats considered our land strains (i dont believe we have any true ones) are descendants or bread from Thai, and Cambodian strains.

Interesting enough we grow commercial poppies here on my island state, but i haven't heard of anyone making any Aussie stick...
Just have to jump the fence/climb the gate..the farms are everywhere..

Thai stick was everywhere in the 80s and early 90s. Then hash seemed to explode and take over and it was hard to find flowers until the hydro boom.


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## Mohican (Mar 3, 2017)

I read that the "opium water" that was a by-product of opium production was what they dipped it in. Sticks back in the '70s would knock you out!

I had a friend who was working for a large Dutch company and he would bring me back pucks of opiated hash. It was the most amazing smoke I ever had - until I started making my own


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 8, 2017)

Are any of you guys writing off grow equipment and production costs as medical expenses on your taxes?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 8, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Are any of you guys writing off grow equipment and production costs as medical expenses on your taxes?


I've been writing grow equipment and labor for installation and modification off on my business taxes for years now.


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 8, 2017)

I dont grow on the scale of ttstikk and others on here but i still claim everything against my business's. I am lucky enough to have a Lawn contracting business and a Cleaning business. Between those you can claim nearly everything you purchase, grow related or not.

Thats one of the perks of a business number.


SOO wish i could grow full legal as a business..


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 8, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> I dont grow on the scale of ttstikk and others on here but i still claim everything against my business's. I am lucky enough to have a Lawn contracting business and a Cleaning business. Between those you can claim nearly everything you purchase, grow related or not.
> 
> Thats one of the perks of a business number.
> 
> ...


Quite right!


----------



## Lucky Luke (Mar 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Quite right!


If they ever make it easier for Boutique growers to grow legally here. I have a 1/4 to a 1/2 acre nearly flat block of land i can build on (subject to council approvals).
But ill probably die before that happens...


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 8, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> If they ever make it easier for Boutique growers to grow legally here. I have a 1/4 to a 1/2 acre nearly flat block of land i can build on (subject to council approvals).
> But ill probably die before that happens...


Right. Because a plant so harmless there is no LD50 value for it is BAD!


----------



## Lucky Luke (Mar 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Right. Because a plant so harmless there is no LD50 value for it is BAD!


I have no idea what a LD50 value is but ill agree due to the sentiment!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 8, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> I have no idea what a LD50 value is but ill agree due to the sentiment!


LD50 value is shorthand for a dose that would kill 50% of the population. 

So far as I know, there is no pharmaceutical that compares to the safety of Cannabis.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Mar 8, 2017)

Looks like the legislation and licence will be wrapped up tight here in Australia. 

Unless ur big pharma or one of the "filthy rich few" growing here as a legal business seems a pipe dream. I do envy you and others that can pursue there dream business.


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## ttystikk (Mar 8, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> Looks like the legislation and licence will be wrapped up tight here in Australia.
> 
> Unless ur big pharma or one of the "filthy rich few" growing here as a legal business seems a pipe dream. I do envy you and others that can pursue there dream business.


Don't envy me too much; I'm fighting off charges even now.


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## pinner420 (Mar 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Don't envy me too much; I'm fighting off charges even now.


Federal or state


----------



## Lucky Luke (Mar 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Don't envy me too much; I'm fighting off charges even now.


damn.. GL man!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 9, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Federal or state





Lucky Luke said:


> damn.. GL man!


State. Felonies, even still. The idea that one can go to prison for growing Cannabis in a legal state is something I'd like to see a jury decide.

Thanks for the good vibes. I have a laundry list of medical patients who are itching to testify on my behalf, I think my chances are pretty good.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Mar 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> State. Felonies, even still. The idea that one can go to prison for growing Cannabis in a legal state is something I'd like to see a jury decide.
> 
> Thanks for the good vibes. I have a laundry list of medical patients who are itching to testify on my behalf, I think my chances are pretty good.


Fight the fkkers.. Please keep us informed.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 9, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> Fight the fkkers.. Please keep us informed.


I've been ready for this fight for a quarter century.

I most certainly will.


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## gr865 (Mar 9, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> I have no idea what a LD50 value is but ill agree due to the sentiment!


LD 50, leathle dose 50, the amount of (dose) it takes to kill 50 % of whatever your trying to kill. Be that people or plants.


----------



## SSGrower (Mar 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> LD50 value is shorthand for a dose that would kill 50% of the population.
> 
> So far as I know, there is no pharmaceutical that compares to the safety of Cannabis.


Real close, not "the" population but a population. Since human data for this statistic is rarely available animal data is relied on to calculate a value. As far as safety imo that has more to do with method of cosumption and there's plenty of proof with regard to smoking.

I'm slow see post above.


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## pinner420 (Mar 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> State. Felonies, even still. The idea that one can go to prison for growing Cannabis in a legal state is something I'd like to see a jury decide.
> 
> Thanks for the good vibes. I have a laundry list of medical patients who are itching to testify on my behalf, I think my chances are pretty good.


Just dont use a public pretender. I did a 5 piece at fci Englewood no fun.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 9, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Just dont use a public pretender. I did a 5 piece at fci Englewood no fun.


That's sound advice.


----------



## 666888 (Mar 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> State. Felonies, even still. The idea that one can go to prison for growing Cannabis in a legal state is something I'd like to see a jury decide.
> 
> Thanks for the good vibes. I have a laundry list of medical patients who are itching to testify on my behalf, I think my chances are pretty good.


Good luck ttystikk,
just remember no one inside likes a dobber


----------



## Billiam76 (Mar 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> That's sound advice.


I would advise to go to high times mag's web site and get their list of 420-friendly attorneys who have experience in Your state (maybe even an ex-prosecutor). if you haven't already.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2017)

Billiam76 said:


> I would advise to go to high times mag's web site and get their list of 420-friendly attorneys who have experience in Your state (maybe even an ex-prosecutor). if you haven't already.


The guy they list in Colorado is a celebrity lawyer who's very likely out of my price range.


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 15, 2017)

gr865 said:


> LD 50, leathle dose 50, the amount of (dose) it takes to kill 50 % of whatever your trying to kill. Be that people or plants.


And just to expand on that like a pedantic shit; it is the commonly accepted method (but debatably not the best method) for measuring the toxicity of any substance, and is often in reference to tests on rodents. It is expressed in mg per kg, usually, and there are different mehods of introducing the substance into the test subject's body. For instance, the LD50 of a highly venomous snake like the black mamba is .32 milligrams per kilogram when injected into mice subcutaneously, and more like .25 (less venom to kill 50% of subjects) when injected intravenously. The Black Mamba is a very venomous snake, and among the most deadly to humans but it is not nearly the most venomous. Black Mambas are fast aggressive, large and frequently near human habitations in Africa. Envenomation by it is 100% fatal without treatment. The Many-Banded Krait has a vastly lower LD50 (as little as 0.08 when intra-peritoneal) but causes few deaths because of the comparative rarity of encounters with humans.

*The LD50 of THC in rodents is around 1270. 

Water is about 90 in rodents, oddly enough.

Botulinum toxin is approximately 1 nanogram per kilogram, but it is so toxic that's an estimation. 

We let people inject that shit into their faces!

Theobromine, the caffeine molecule found in cocoa is about 1000. *

1270 is absurdly high, and there are conflicting studies, but they all agree on similarly crazy-high (safe) LD50 values for cannabis products.

Sources;
http://www.seanthomas.net/oldsite/ld50tot.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_lethal_dose
https://weedpress.wordpress.com/science/studies/ld50-of-cannabis/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0041008X74901264
https://medlineplus.gov/botox.html


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## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2017)

Michael Huntherz said:


> And just to expand on that like a pedantic shit; it is the commonly accepted method (but debatably not the best method) for measuring the toxicity of any substance, and is often in reference to tests on rodents. It is expressed in mg per kg, usually, and there are different mehods of introducing the substance into the test subject's body. For instance, the LD50 of a highly venomous snake like the black mamba is .32 milligrams per kilogram when injected into mice subcutaneously, and more like .25 (less venom to kill 50% of subjects) when injected intravenously. The Black Mamba is a very venomous snake, and among the most deadly to humans but it is not nearly the most venomous. Black Mambas are fast aggressive, large and frequently near human habitations in Africa. Envenomation by it is 100% fatal without treatment. The Many-Banded Krait has a vastly lower LD50 (as little as 0.08 when intra-peritoneal) but causes few deaths because of the comparative rarity of encounters with humans.
> 
> *The LD50 of THC in rodents is around 1270.
> 
> ...


They kicked a nest of black mambas out of the tree beside the house my sister's family moved into in Kinshasa. It had been unoccupied for nearly a year after the British ambassador moved out, yet there were absolutely no rats inside or anywhere near the place. I'm pretty sure this was not a coincidence.


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 15, 2017)

I bought a snake for the first time in a long time. This is Swervin' Irwin, OG Tree Hugger. He's a baby Jaguar Carpet Python.



Also, this:


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## Michael Huntherz (Mar 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> They kicked a nest of black mambas out of the tree beside the house my sister's family moved into in Kinshasa. It had been unoccupied for nearly a year after the British ambassador moved out, yet there were absolutely no rats anywhere near the place. I'm pretty sure this was not a coincidence.


Woah, nasty! They do tend to have a huge hunting range, too. I actually used the mamba as an example because I was thinking about the Congo region due to our recent conversation. I mis-read your post at first, I think I'm tired.


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> State. Felonies, even still. The idea that one can go to prison for growing Cannabis in a legal state is something I'd like to see a jury decide.
> 
> Thanks for the good vibes. I have a laundry list of medical patients who are itching to testify on my behalf, I think my chances are pretty good.


That is crazy you are still being charged in a legal state as progressive as CO. Man i didn't know that. Good vibes coming your way brother you seem like one of the most helpful people not in it for the money but to help others, no way a jury will convict you. But what a nerve racking ordeal.


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> That's sound advice.


Yes make sure even if it's not an expensive lawyer get a Paid one for sure. Prison is no fun, but your not going. So keep your head up.


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> LD50 value is shorthand for a dose that would kill 50% of the population.
> 
> So far as I know, there is no pharmaceutical that compares to the safety of Cannabis.


Crack cocain is about as safe as most pharmaceuticals


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## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2017)

Michiganjesse said:


> That is crazy you are still being charged in a legal state as progressive as CO. Man i didn't know that. Good vibes coming your way brother you seem like one of the most helpful people not in it for the money but to help others, no way a jury will convict you. But what a nerve racking ordeal.


Juries do strange things. Yes it's been tough on my normally happy outlook.


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## Bakersfield (Mar 15, 2017)

Michiganjesse said:


> That is crazy you are still being charged in a legal state as progressive as CO. Man i didn't know that. Good vibes coming your way brother you seem like one of the most helpful people not in it for the money but to help others, no way a jury will convict you. But what a nerve racking ordeal.


I don't know about Colorado but up here if you grow over the limit or get caught selling it's a felony and the government typically pursues a felony.

Best of luck @ttystikk and hopefully your lawyer can find a fault in their case against you.


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Juries do strange things. Yes it's been tough on my normally happy outlook.


Takes a tool for sure I'm pretty versed in some law, if you have any questions. I spent every hour I was allowed in the law library studying. Got some people off case's while i was doing a few years for a few lbs cause I wouldn't talk. Prison sucked but Michigan prison is soft compared to most states. It sucked but I made the best of it studied and worked out and ran. I seen stabings feet away from me people get hot with weights but it's only cause they were in dirt I did my thing laid low. Had a few scuffs one scary situation with gang dude, but it blew over cause an old crippled Christian bible thumper who use to be a player in there made it go away. He changed his ways but still had clout. I still write him to this day may have saved at least a hole in me. Or worse. Jury's can be strange but you may not make it that far bro pm me your situation of you feel comfortable with it and I can guide you possibly. Help to make sure your lawyer whom ever it may be has your best interest at heart. Did you retain one yet? I can ask a friend from Colorado well lived there. Who is a dispensary owner here but knows people there


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 15, 2017)

Bakersfield said:


> I don't know about Colorado but up here if you grow over the limit or get caught selling it's a felony and the government typically pursues a felony.
> 
> Best of luck @ttystikk and hopefully your lawyer can find a fault in their case against you.


That is what a good lawyer does. Loop holes all kinds of them in the law. Paper work dated wrong, conflicting statements. I had a case thrown out on miss dated warrant, and also one at pre trial cause they were at their last day to present evidence and had none on hand expecting me to not fight pre trial and bond over never do this pre trial gives you more chances of them screwing the case up creating more loop holes.


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## BobBitchen (Mar 15, 2017)

Teflon tty brother.....


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## Alaric (Mar 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> State. Felonies, even still.


Ouch!!! --------terrible news tyy. No fun living under dark clouds.

What are you charged with?

I agree about the paid lawyer thing-----seems like justice in this country is proportional

to how much you can afford.

However; take a good look at the "early resolution" they may offer-----usually the best plea bargain offer you'll get.

Seems to make the DA mad if you go to trial.

Good luck with everything,

A~~~


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 15, 2017)

Alaric said:


> Ouch!!! --------terrible news tyy. No fun living under dark clouds.
> 
> What are you charged with?
> 
> ...


I disagree often if you file as many motions and go all the way right before trial you can get a better deal all depends on their case against you how weak or how strong it is they expect people to bow out fast with first deal often they have a weak case. Need a lot more detail to real know what is best.


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## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2017)

Michiganjesse said:


> Takes a tool for sure I'm pretty versed in some law, if you have any questions. I spent every hour I was allowed in the law library studying. Got some people off case's while i was doing a few years for a few lbs cause I wouldn't talk. Prison sucked but Michigan prison is soft compared to most states. It sucked but I made the best of it studied and worked out and ran. I seen stabings feet away from me people get hot with weights but it's only cause they were in dirt I did my thing laid low. Had a few scuffs one scary situation with gang dude, but it blew over cause an old crippled Christian bible thumper who use to be a player in there made it go away. He changed his ways but still had clout. I still write him to this day may have saved at least a hole in me. Or worse. Jury's can be strange but you may not make it that far bro pm me your situation of you feel comfortable with it and I can guide you possibly. Help to make sure your lawyer whom ever it may be has your best interest at heart. Did you retain one yet? I can ask a friend from Colorado well lived there. Who is a dispensary owner here but knows people there


I'm not one to turn down help from people who know what's up. Message me and we'll chat for sure. I've got nothing to hide anymore, that's one good result of all this!


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## visajoe1 (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> State. Felonies, even still. The idea that one can go to prison for growing Cannabis in a legal state is something I'd like to see a jury decide.
> 
> Thanks for the good vibes. I have a laundry list of medical patients who are itching to testify on my behalf, I think my chances are pretty good.


I wouldnt necessarily consider myself a religious man, but god bless you. Been there, done that, charged with sales and transportation in 2001, two felonies. It worked out, as I pray it will for you. Good luck, be safe.


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

visajoe1 said:


> I wouldnt necessarily consider myself a religious man, but god bless you. Been there, done that, charged with sales and transportation in 2001, two felonies. It worked out, as I pray it will for you. Good luck, be safe.


They have empty boxes. That's it.

Fuck them.

And thanks for the kind words, brother.


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## JDMase (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The guy they list in Colorado is a celebrity lawyer who's very likely out of my price range.


Do a gofundme?


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Do a gofundme?


The best part of this is all the support I've been getting from my friends.


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## greg nr (Mar 16, 2017)

I read the new CO law cuz this got me interested. While they way lowered the limits, at least it's only a misdemeanor for 6 plants over the limit. After that, it's all felony. But 6 mature plants and a 12 plant limit is gonna really hobble a lot of growers. What is a mature plant, anyway?

I really hope they just give tickets for being a few plants over the limit. Even a misdemeanor can cost you 6 months. Nobody is trying to deal by starting a few extra clones so you end up with a few healthy ones, but they can go to jail for it nonetheless.

This is a crazy patchwork and very perilous for people who get caught in a technical violation (violating the letter of the law but not the intent).


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

greg nr said:


> I read the new CO law cuz this got me interested. While they way lowered the limits, at least it's only a misdemeanor for 6 plants over the limit. After that, it's all felony. But 6 mature plants and a 12 plant limit is gonna really hobble a lot of growers. What is a mature plant, anyway?
> 
> I really hope they just give tickets for being a few plants over the limit. Even a misdemeanor can cost you 6 months. Nobody is trying to deal by starting a few extra clones so you end up with a few healthy ones, but they can go to jail for it nonetheless.
> 
> This is a crazy patchwork and very perilous for people who get caught in a technical violation (violating the letter of the law but not the intent).


That's the game; it's legal but they can trip you up with the details any time they want. It's back door prohibition without having to admit that's their intent.


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## SSGrower (Mar 16, 2017)

greg nr said:


> What is a mature plant, anyway?
> ).


Better yet what is a plant, aerocloning and whatever the technical term for a branch that has broken, been covered and rooted but is still attached to the main plant?? This colorado law and local juristictional control (counties hasmtheir own ordinances) is an exaple to all other states, the citizens must fight for equal rights of the licensed distributors. This includes access to all laboratory testing, and technological, and legal assistance (called the county once asked them if they would come audit me, no way but they offer it for existing licensed facilities).

What we do have is this social forum and im thankful for that at least


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Better yet what is a plant, aerocloning and whatever the technical term for a branch that has broken, been covered and rooted but is still attached to the main plant?? This colorado law and local juristictional control (counties hasmtheir own ordinances) is an exaple to all other states, the citizens must fight for equal rights of the licensed distributors. This includes access to all laboratory testing, and technological, and legal assistance (called the county once asked them if they would come audit me, no way but they offer it for existing licensed facilities).
> 
> What we do have is this social forum and im thankful for that at least


The simple fact is that they're trying to get rid of private growers as we threaten the profitability of the industry.

We give ourselves rights and the legislature taketh away...


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## SSGrower (Mar 16, 2017)

Official announcement hot tub season in the high country is not over (though it may take a break sometime in july or august)......storm door glass replaced with window screen and birds are a chirpin......waiting for 2ft of snow..........


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Official announcement hot tub season in the high country is not over (though it may take a break sometime in july or august)......storm door glass replaced with window screen and birds are a chirpin......waiting for 2ft of snow..........


We need all the snow we can get. It's getting pretty dry.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The guy they list in Colorado is a celebrity lawyer who's very likely out of my price range.


Rob Corry? I heard him a few times on the Peter Boyles talk radio show before he got fired. he's supposed to be the best, don't know about price.

good luck, bro! fight the power!!


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> Rob Corry? I heard him a few times on the Peter Boyles talk radio show before he got fired. he's supposed to be the best, don't know about price.
> 
> good luck, bro! fight the power!!


McAllister. Similar celebrity.

I do plan to fight.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> McAllister. Similar celebrity.
> 
> I do plan to fight.


he's supposed to be a good one too. 
i hear ya! i read in an earlier post about felony charge. what is/are the charges exactly if you don't mind posting on the forum?


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> he's supposed to be a good one too.
> i hear ya! i read in an earlier post about felony charge. what is/are the charges exactly if you don't mind posting on the forum?


F2 possession with intent to distribute. Despite the fact that I can keep as much as I want in my private residence.
F3 30 or more plants.

I have my med card so both of these are on very shaky ground.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> F2 possession with intent to distribute. Despite the fact that I can keep as much as I want in my private residence.
> F3 30 or more plants.
> 
> I have my med card so both of these are on very shaky ground.



good luck dude!

i can only pass along a piece of wisdom an old buddy of mine told me may he RIP (he was quite familiar with the legal system to say the least):

hire the best lawyer you CAN'T afford.


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> good luck dude!
> 
> i can only pass along a piece of wisdom an old buddy of mine told me may he RIP (he was quite familiar with the legal system to say the least):
> 
> hire the best lawyer you CAN'T afford.


Wish I could ask him what he meant by that.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Wish I could ask him what he meant by that.


to paraphrase:

don't put a price on your freedom. beat the rap and worry about paying for it later.


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## SomeGuy (Mar 16, 2017)

Wish you luck ty. Tough breaks. Fight like a MF. Good vibes to you.


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> That's the game; it's legal but they can trip you up with the details any time they want. It's back door prohibition without having to admit that's their intent.


Yup


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Wish I could ask him what he meant by that.


Gofundme for sure see if you can post link on forum here sure people will help. Going to see if I can, find any case law from your state on your charges have you retained a lawyer.


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## Bakersfield (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> F2 possession with intent to distribute. Despite the fact that I can keep as much as I want in my private residence.
> F3 30 or more plants.
> 
> I have my med card so both of these are on very shaky ground.


I don't know anything about Colorado laws but even if you are convicted it might not be that bad.
In Alaska that charge would land you 30 days in a minimum security facility and a 2 year probation with a suspended imposition of sentencing, which allows you to vote and possess a firearm, once completed. Thats if it was your first felony conviction. 
That's the deal they tried to make with me when I was charged with
Possession of over 25 plants class c felony
Possession of over 4 oz. Class c felony
Intent to distribute class c felony
Maintaining a structure to manufacture a controlled substance class c felony.

My lawyer told me it would be stupid to take the plea as it was precedence to hand that same sentence to first time offenders even if we took it to trial and lost.
Luckily, for me we had the case thrown out of court based on the reckless way the Drug Task force obtained the warrant.


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

Bakersfield said:


> I don't know anything about Colorado laws but even if you are convicted it might not be that bad.
> In Alaska that charge would land you 30 days in a minimum security facility and a 2 year probation with a suspended imposition of sentencing, which allows you to vote and possess a firearm, once completed. Thats if it was your first felony conviction.
> That's the deal they tried to make with me when I was charged with
> Possession of over 25 plants class c felony
> ...


I think there's a lot of holes in their case. However, I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't know what they might be.


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## Danielson999 (Mar 16, 2017)

hey @ttystikk have you ever pondered using something like this? 3 or 4 weeks of veg and POOF, you'd have a wall of bud sites. These are smart pots. Just curious...


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 16, 2017)

Ttystikk you got this shit


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Wish I could ask him what he meant by that.


Something else once you retained a lawyer they have to finish the case once they are retained


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

Danielson999 said:


> hey @ttystikk have you ever pondered using something like this? 3 or 4 weeks of veg and POOF, you'd have a wall of bud sites. These are smart pots. Just curious...


I've absolutely considered such an approach. For now, plant count limits on our favorite cultivar has held me back. I really should give it a shot, even if all I grow is lettuce or something.


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2017)

Michiganjesse said:


> Ttystikk you got this shit





Michiganjesse said:


> Something else once you retained a lawyer they have to finish the case once they are retained


Thanks for the kind words and strong support, brother.

I'm humbled by how many people have reached out to me in support in so many ways.

I'll never feel alone in my basement again, even when there's no one else down there with me.


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks for the kind words and strong support, brother.
> 
> I'm humbled by how many people have reached out to me in support in so many ways.
> 
> I'll never feel alone in my basement again, even when there's no one else down there with me.


People reach out because you would do the same and we know that.


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## rocknratm (Mar 17, 2017)

If you do start a gofundme id chip in.

Im curious if you are comfortable sharing the whole story. Im mostly curious how they got access- was it a random inspection since you registered with them being in an legal state or what happened that got them in there in the first place? Ive had a few legal battles myself and know a few things- but people on here might be able to really help build a case for you


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## greg nr (Mar 17, 2017)

While I really feel for ttystikk, this is the point where a lawyer would say to stfu. Remember the saying "anything you say WILL be used against you". 

Chances are they are watching this thread. Beware.

Just saying.


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## Billiam76 (Mar 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> possession with intent to distribute


Yes, if it can be = it will be! 

don't fight the law, fight the facts: which, I hope, are: No, Your Honor, I did not have it bagged up in these odd quantities with the intent to break State Law: which allows medical mj.
Lack of intent = no broken law


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 17, 2017)

greg nr said:


> While I really feel for ttystikk, this is the point where a lawyer would say to stfu. Remember the saying "anything you say WILL be used against you".
> 
> Chances are they are watching this thread. Beware.
> 
> Just saying.


He is right but as you see he is legal. But for sure good advice


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## pinner420 (Mar 17, 2017)

Who's the rat? Have you read discovery yet?


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 17, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Who's the rat? Have you read discovery yet?


Don't think he has one yet not even to prevent trial.


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks for the kind words and strong support, brother.
> 
> I'm humbled by how many people have reached out to me in support in so many ways.
> 
> I'll never feel alone in my basement again, even when there's no one else down there with me.


https://www.wired.com/2012/08/administrative-subpoenas/
Read this may help


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## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Who's the rat? Have you read discovery yet?


No rat. They told me they used my power bill.


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## abe supercro (Mar 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> No rat. They told me they used my power bill.


Sounds like an unlawful search to me. You'd think that power co's wouldn't be cooperative w authorities without a warrant and would want to protect their best customers. Maybe the meter reader got a reward, I've heard of programs like that established in certain areas.


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## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2017)

abe supercro said:


> Sounds like an unlawful search to me. You'd think that power co's wouldn't be cooperative w authorities without a warrant and would want to protect their best customers. Maybe the meter reader got a reward, I've heard of programs like that established in certain areas.


Just one of a dozen holes in their case.


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## abe supercro (Mar 17, 2017)

I know in recent years there was a Supreme Court ruling against using infrared without a warrant as a no-go. I still don't understand how they are allowed to dig thru trash lawfully. buncha bs


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## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2017)

abe supercro said:


> I know in recent years there was a Supreme Court ruling against using infrared without a warrant as a no-go. I still don't understand how they are allowed to dig thru trash lawfully. buncha bs


We are slaves to the corporate machine. Obey or go make profits for the PIC.


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## 714steadyeddie (Mar 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> We are slaves to the corporate machine. Obey or go make profits for the PIC.


On a lighter note, what gear you plan or are running ? Anything special floating around that people have been sleeping on ?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2017)

714steadyeddie said:


> On a lighter note, what gear you plan or are running ? Anything special floating around that people have been sleeping on ?


Just the same old clones that have served me so well.


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## Billiam76 (Mar 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> They told me they used my power bill.


You should have them tell you the method they employed discerning that you were to be the ultimate target of search warrant.

What about the _Fruit of the Poisonous Tree_ legal doctrine regarding unconstitutional search warrants.
Let me break this gently as possible; they don't feel obligated to always tell the truth for whatever is a good reason in their judgment.
Knowing the truth could set you free.....


----------



## Billiam76 (Mar 18, 2017)

abe supercro said:


> I know in recent years there was a Supreme Court ruling against using infrared without a warrant as a no-go. I still don't understand how they are allowed to dig thru trash lawfully. buncha bs


the Court reasoned we have a reasonable expectation of privacy until we put it in the public domain out of our control; such as on the street, or in a trash can, or abandoned et.al.. But that only applies to a GOV and not a private individual such as a trespasser or invitee.


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## rocknratm (Mar 18, 2017)

Someone made a good point dont say anything detailed on here. The curiosity is killing me tho. But in your best interest saying the least you can is best.
The police can lie to you about anything until its in writing. If they did use the power bill to get a search warrant a good lawyer should get the whole thing tossed based on that. Anything found with an unjust or ill gotten warrant is inadmissable. Imho that warrant is absurd if its based on that. Shame on that judge.
That power bill could have been anything. You could have been growing veggies inside. Could have been a stack of supercomputers used as a server stack- and your legal state wise unless their making a federal case how could state even get a warrant if you had the legal right to grow? 
Im guessing a rat even if they havent told you yet. Take it far enough and the rat has to sit on the stand in front of you and say everything he testified to. 
But like 95% of cases are settled without trial. And the rats never revealed if a plea bargain is reached and there isnt a trial


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## greg nr (Mar 18, 2017)

It still smells like the power bill is a cover. Something made them look at your power bill and something else made them visit. Lots of homes have high power bills.


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## pop22 (Mar 18, 2017)

Actually, I've read that some power companies encourage outing growers, send meter readers to sniff for RF and other signs of grows. maybe they get grease from the cops......



abe supercro said:


> Sounds like an unlawful search to me. You'd think that power co's wouldn't be cooperative w authorities without a warrant and would want to protect their best customers. Maybe the meter reader got a reward, I've heard of programs like that established in certain areas.


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## PSUAGRO. (Mar 18, 2017)

Just read of this shit happening to you!.................sorry grower, keep your head high T

The warrant does smell like BS imo. 12/12 power spikes in CO seems like a normal occurrence ?


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## 420producer (Mar 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> F2 possession with intent to distribute. Despite the fact that I can keep as much as I want in my private residence.
> F3 30 or more plants.
> 
> I have my med card so both of these are on very shaky ground.


what county?? larimer??


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 18, 2017)

So I looked into warrantless power bill reading the Fed's made it legal long ago which is bs should need a warrant for that


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## abe supercro (Mar 18, 2017)

let's say tty's thread gets back to big kahuna growin


714steadyeddie said:


> On a lighter note, what gear you plan or are running ?


think he's got an orange flavorite one.


----------



## 420producer (Mar 18, 2017)

Michiganjesse said:


> So I looked into warrantless power bill reading the Fed's made it legal long ago which is bs should need a warrant for that


i live in the next county over..and kinda tripping over the new rules. im about to start 5 more D/E for a total of 12k or 1 plant per light.. IE. 10k in flower and 2k for veg. and my homie has over 35 lights on right now in loveland...and dont seem to be worried over the recent events here..sucks they hit you like that..


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Just read of this shit happening to you!.................sorry grower, keep your head high T
> 
> The warrant does smell like BS imo. 12/12 power spikes in CO seems like a normal occurrence ?


Well that's just it; even incontrovertible evidence of me growing doesn't mean I'm doing anything illegal!

I'm thinking I can get the warrant quashed, and if not I'll be more than happy to take it to trial. I'm done being treated like a criminal for a plant that can't hurt anyone.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

420producer said:


> what county?? larimer??


Yup.


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Mar 18, 2017)

Ttystikk. My brotherly figure dude. What is going on? Sounds like you're dealing with some bullshit?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

Michiganjesse said:


> So I looked into warrantless power bill reading the Fed's made it legal long ago which is bs should need a warrant for that


So how does a power bill become a warrant in a cannabis legal state??


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Ttystikk. My brotherly figure dude. What is going on? Sounds like you're dealing with some bullshit?


Aye, that I surely am Sir!

I'm not going without a fight- and frankly there are so many holes in this case they should be using it to drain noodles.


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Aye, that I surely am Sir!
> 
> I'm not going without a fight- and frankly the are so many holes in this case they should be using it to drain noodles.


Respectfully speaking, do you know what drew their attention to you?


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> So how does a power bill become a warrant in a cannabis legal state??


It doesn't aha. Thc expo in Detroit got raided yesterday like Vegas wtf


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 18, 2017)

So what does this mean? 1980s protocol is now back in effect?


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Respectfully speaking, do you know what drew their attention to you?


They told me it was my high power bill.


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

Olive Drab Green said:


> So what does this mean? 1980s protocol is now back in effect?


As I recently asked in another thread;
Is there any constituency the Chump HASN'T pissed off yet?


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## pinner420 (Mar 19, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> So how does a power bill become a warrant in a cannabis legal state??


So if they are lazy they'll package it up under the broad umbrella of conspiracy.


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## greg nr (Mar 19, 2017)

Subcool dropped a line in his youtube stream last night that one of the growers on the grow tube round channel was busted. He is going to start a legsal defense fund raiser. 

He didn't mention the name, but at least 2 growers are from CO (Medgrower1 and Pedro/Dizzy). Doesn't matter which one it is, I wouldn't want to see any of them go through this.

Lots of raids popping up in legal states. Several in MI recently. Not enough info to get details, but its going on all over.


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## Bakersfield (Mar 19, 2017)

I bet there's many conservative DA's and Sheriff's, that are willing to help start the drug war up again, on a local level, by harassing law abiding growers.


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## 420producer (Mar 19, 2017)

thats crazy shit. but i thought you were doing that vertical to be conservative in electricity? ill be at the NOCO expo in loveland this fri. you should hit me up


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## ttystikk (Mar 19, 2017)

420producer said:


> thats crazy shit. but i thought you were doing that vertical to be conservative in electricity? ill be at the NOCO expo in loveland this fri. you should hit me up


PM me the deets and I'll be there.

Vertical improves yield vs space and labor, not power.


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## BarnBuster (Mar 20, 2017)

Dang, Ty, first I'm reading of your troubles..keep fighting to the end brother. Good Luck.
BB


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## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2017)

BarnBuster said:


> Dang, Ty, first I'm reading of your troubles..keep fighting to the end brother. Good Luck.
> BB


Thanks for the kind words, brother. I'm all in on this fight!


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## darkzero (Mar 20, 2017)

Damn Ty you are second person I've heard that happen to in a med state at that. Seems like they are trying to start that war against, main reason I fell all the way back especially after dude said he was going after ppl when that new head said what he said few weeks ago about being hard of weed comparing it to heroine which you can't compare. Just goes to show they not off the bs. I sincerely hope you beat this case.


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## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2017)

darkzero said:


> Damn Ty you are second person I've heard that happen to in a med state at that. Seems like they are trying to start that war against, main reason I fell all the way back especially after dude said he was going after ppl when that new head said what he said few weeks ago about being hard of weed comparing it to heroine which you can't compare. Just goes to show they not off the bs. I sincerely hope you beat this case.


That makes two of us. The silver lining is that getting my day in court also means being able to set precedent and push back against the ongoing crush of legislation aimed at crushing our right to grow our medicine unmolested.


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## 420producer (Mar 20, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> They told me it was my high power bill.[/QUO





ttystikk said:


> PM me the deets and I'll be there.
> 
> Vertical improves yield vs space and labor, not power.


ok .ill see if i can get more tickets.


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## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2017)

420producer said:


> ok .ill see if i can get more tickets.


Awesome! I totally want to go-


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 22, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Subcool dropped a line in his youtube stream last night that one of the growers on the grow tube round channel was busted. He is going to start a legsal defense fund raiser.
> 
> He didn't mention the name, but at least 2 growers are from CO (Medgrower1 and Pedro/Dizzy). Doesn't matter which one it is, I wouldn't want to see any of them go through this.
> 
> Lots of raids popping up in legal states. Several in MI recently. Not enough info to get details, but its going on all over.


Michigan too for sure northern counties mostly but they hit the THC expo last Saturday good thing I was working. Installing electrical service to a house and Garage for lighting requirements


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## Jaybodankly (Mar 27, 2017)

How many Watts were you using? Curious what the number is to tip off the popo.


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## ttystikk (Mar 27, 2017)

Jaybodankly said:


> How many Watts were you using? Curious what the number is to tip off the popo.


Lots lol. But weed is legal and they don't have a quota, so fuck 'em.


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## BarnBuster (Mar 28, 2017)

Jaybodankly said:


> Curious what the number is to tip off the popo.


I would imagine you'd come under scrutiny of the utility company first if your current consumption was xx% higher than your neighbor's/block/division, or your previous useage. That might trigger a letter from them requesting an inspection as a safety concern rather than them automatically assuming you're growing. But, if LE is already looking at you, then...


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## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2017)

BarnBuster said:


> I would imagine you'd come under scrutiny of the utility company first if your current consumption was xx% higher than your neighbor's/block/division, or your previous useage. That might trigger a letter from them requesting an inspection as a safety concern rather than them automatically assuming you're growing. But, if LE is already looking at you, then...


Bottom line is that a high power bill by itself is not probable cause. We the People need to take our country back from the fascists and enforce our constitutional rights.


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## gr865 (Mar 28, 2017)

BarnBuster said:


> I would imagine you'd come under scrutiny of the utility company first if your current consumption was xx% higher than your neighbor's/block/division, or your previous useage. That might trigger a letter from them requesting an inspection as a safety concern rather than them automatically assuming you're growing. But, if LE is already looking at you, then...


And the utility co is going to just say oh he is using too much elect. Let's have him cut back to what his neighbor is doing. That would be really dumb on their part.
My elect bill is always 30 to 50% over what my neighbors are, i get a report from my elect co weekly on my usage. I don't worry about it. I do not believe they would cut their nose of to spite their face.
That being said, I don't run 1000's of Watts of lights and power. 
But he is in CO, so I would think that is a common thing for the power co's.


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## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2017)

All this over A HARMLESS PLANT.

Surely there something more important for our tax supported law enforcement do be doing?


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## greg nr (Mar 28, 2017)

Imagine if you ran an electric kiln all day. 100 kw a day. Somehow, I've never heard of a a glassblower or ceramic studio getting visited.


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## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Imagine if you ran an electric kiln all day. 100 kw a day. Somehow, I've never heard of a a glassblower or ceramic studio getting visited.


Actually, it happens. Home based server farms are also regularly raided, lol

Respect for our constitutional rights has never been lower. If they only respect them when they feel like it, WE DON'T HAVE THEM.


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## Walterwhiter (Mar 28, 2017)




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## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2017)

Walterwhiter said:


>


Rage is fine.

Organizing and voting is even more effective.


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## ttystikk (Apr 1, 2017)

@canadiankushman this is the best place to discuss the lighting you asked me about.

The Philips 860W CDM lamps are the same tech as 315W CMH. The 315W lamp has gained a lot of popularity recently because of whichever improvements. The efficiency difference is entirely in the ballast.

First, don't be fooled by the 860W moniker; a magnetic ballast running on 208V will deliver that wattage and the lamp will happily run on it. However, most people run 240V single phase or 277V three phase and with those inputs the standard magnetic ballast will output 1000W, and the lamp runs fine on it.

Magnetic ballasts run at the standard alternating current (AC) line frequency of 60Hz. This is why they're necessary for this lamp, because it won't run on high frequency digital ballasts. These will not drive the lamp to its maximum efficiency but will still give good results.

To get maximum efficiency with these or any other HID lamp, one needs to use a square wave ballast. It's this square wave output that's the efficiency secret of the 315W system.

There are a few low frequency square wave ballasts that output 1000W, including the Hortilux Platinum and the BadAss ballasts. Both of these are now out of production, although I've managed to scrounge a couple BadAss ballasts. They work great!

One last consideration about the 860W Philips lamp; it must be operated in a vertical orientation, either base up or down. For this reason I felt it was an ideal lamp for vertical gardening and I ran them in vertical socket bare lamp fixture.

Because I'm working to improve performance and efficiency in indoor gardening, I've since moved on to LED lighting of my own design. I'm now looking to sell my inventory of both of the above lamps, if you or anyone is interested.

I'd recommend these lamps as a way to provide high quality results with reasonable yields and as such is an excellent stepping stone on the way to much more expensive LED lighting.

There you have it; far more than you ever wanted to know about a light bulb!


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Apr 1, 2017)

i've been considering vertical since i first saw your set up. i know you're using overhead QB now as an experiment. i also know you're familiar with the QB my friend and i have been experimenting with. i wanted your opinion on an idea.
i'm thinking about a quantum column, a 4 foot tall square tube QB with fans mounted in the center blowing upwards, and using it in the center of a 4x4 tent with 5 plants on vertical trellises around it.....
am i insane? the doctors say so, but who listens to them?
what do you think?
i'm using a 600 watt hps in the same tent now, and can only fit 4 plants in it at a time, growing conventionally.


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## gr865 (Apr 1, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> i've been considering vertical since i first saw your set up. i know you're using overhead QB now as an experiment. i also know you're familiar with the QB my friend and i have been experimenting with. i wanted your opinion on an idea.
> i'm thinking about a quantum column, a 4 foot tall square tube QB with fans mounted in the center blowing upwards, and using it in the center of a 4x4 tent with 5 plants on vertical trellises around it.....
> am i insane? the doctors say so, but who listens to them?
> what do you think?
> i'm using a 600 watt hps in the same tent now, and can only fit 4 plants in it at a time, growing conventionally.


I am unsure what QB led lighting looks like in a cannabis grow.
I am in a 4x4 and running 5 plant vertical screens, did it with a 400W hps but have switched lights and when this grow finishes I will be running stacked bulbs. Upper light will be a 315W CMH and the lower light will be a 400W HPS, unless I can get another 315W before I start that grow.
Here is how it will set up for the stacked lighting.
This is the stand for the 400W sitting over the fan, it is height adjustable.

This is the set up without the 315W, screen are moveable from 15" to around 22" from the lights. each screen is 22x40 inches with an overall height of 54" I am hoping that I will not have a heat problem, I did not have any problem with heat in my fall grow so don't expect any.


This may be useless info, I hope not.
Can you please explain QB LED lighting?

GR


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Apr 1, 2017)

basically its cobs all pulled apart and set in rows to cast light from multiple angles so the plants get very good penetration...https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-155#post-13446084
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-155#post-13446084
start there and then look in the led forums if you're still interested


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## ttystikk (Apr 1, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> i've been considering vertical since i first saw your set up. i know you're using overhead QB now as an experiment. i also know you're familiar with the QB my friend and i have been experimenting with. i wanted your opinion on an idea.
> i'm thinking about a quantum column, a 4 foot tall square tube QB with fans mounted in the center blowing upwards, and using it in the center of a 4x4 tent with 5 plants on vertical trellises around it.....
> am i insane? the doctors say so, but who listens to them?
> what do you think?
> i'm using a 600 watt hps in the same tent now, and can only fit 4 plants in it at a time, growing conventionally.


I see no reason this wouldn't work.


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## canadiankushman (Apr 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> @canadiankushman this is the best place to discuss the lighting you asked me about.
> 
> The Philips 860W CDM lamps are the same tech as 315W CMH. The 315W lamp has gained a lot of popularity recently because of whichever improvements. The efficiency difference is entirely in the ballast.
> 
> ...



How many ballasts do you have? 

I am prepping to do a "two isle" stadium style grow in an 11x12 space. 

I originally planned to light this with cobs (Vero 29's or 3590's) but it's not looking like I will get them in time to build them all so I am now leaning towards hps or these 860's.


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## ttystikk (Apr 1, 2017)

canadiankushman said:


> How many ballasts do you have?
> 
> I am prepping to do a "two isle" stadium style grow in an 11x12 space.
> 
> I originally planned to light this with cobs (Vero 29's or 3590's) but it's not looking like I will get them in time to build them all so I am now leaning towards hps or these 860's.


Plenty! Private message me for details.


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## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2017)

Made a huge pot of spaghetti sauce tonight with spicy Italian sausage, mushrooms, onions, red bell peppers garlic and herbs.

Carb overdose heaven!


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## firsttimeARE (Apr 2, 2017)

Fucking joke. Knocked because you were using too much power.

How do they pull a warrant for that? Could be a multitude of reasons for having a bill that high.


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## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2017)

firsttimeARE said:


> Fucking joke. Knocked because you were using too much power.
> 
> How do they pull a warrant for that? Could be a multitude of reasons for having a bill that high.


Because Americans have been fooled into giving up our constitutional rights in return for 'security'.

Ben Franklin himself warned us over 200 years ago; '_They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety_.'


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## Lucky Luke (Apr 2, 2017)

That quote is cool. I like it!


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## ttystikk (Apr 2, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> That quote is cool. I like it!


It has the advantage of being both true- and timely.

I mean, weed is not just harmless but beneficial. WTF are we hassling people about it for? If this isn't a blatant example of government overreach trampling on the private life of citizens, what is??


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## zypheruk (Apr 3, 2017)

It could be worse Trumps bastard child Yoda could be in charge.


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## gr865 (Apr 3, 2017)

zypheruk said:


> It could be worse Trumps bastard child Yoda could be in charge.


Let's see what that Fking J. Sessions does, he is quoted as saying he plans on going after those on internet sites, and he named RIU by name. He also said "give me a break" when ask about Medical MJ, "there are people that are saying it is medicine, that is ridiculous."
Folks we are about to move 20 yrs in the past on our cannabis movement.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Apr 3, 2017)

i think this is all a ploy by the "illuminati" or w/e it is that actually runs things, so that we will be so happy to get Trump out of office that we won't bitch about the pathetic puppets they replace him with for the next 20 years

i don't live in a legal state, so its all moot to me for the time being. i have to hide and lie now, makes no difference to me if i have to do it another 4 years. i'm a very law abiding person, i don't drink, don't use tobacco, don't rob places, break into peoples houses, rape anyone, or try to fuck kids.....the only reason i'm a criminal is i like weed...while hippocrits sit drinking brandy, smoking cigars, hiring illegal aliens, taking illegal campaign contributions, kissing the asses of pacs....and i'm the criminal.....
so fuck em, they can pick whoever they want to do whatever they want, they still gotta catch me...and i'll still go back to it the day i get out


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## gr865 (Apr 3, 2017)

I think the GOP hates DJT, they are going to use him to get all their bullshit passed then, find a reason to have him impeached and put the Christian asshole Pence in his place and then it is GOP business as usual. IMHO.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Apr 3, 2017)

i actually hope so...couldn't possibly be worse than it is now


----------



## gr865 (Apr 3, 2017)

The feds need to get out of the drug enforcement. They need to leave it to the states to legalize it or not.


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## 420producer (Apr 3, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Because Americans have been fooled into giving up our constitutional rights in return for 'security'.
> 
> Ben Franklin himself warned us over 200 years ago; '_They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety_.'


I called Excel energy and asked why the fuck they telling on med growers?? and whats their policy on residential power use?.. and was told as long as you are not stealing.?? they not telling... they are in business to sell power for profit..$$ its not there to police citizen use of said power... im sure the CEO. of excel would be hella pissed losing all that money you were giving them cuz and employee felt like telling cops on you... regardless if you were spiking 100kw or just 10kw.. for all they know you turn that hot tub on after a long day of growing.... or 30 1000w hid security lights on your property that come on at same time every day...they just cant guess or assume . what makes them know the spike was grow lights?
they have to have someone see and testify you were doing something illegal. or they {loveland po po} are lurking on this site and targeted you or your IP address .. did they do a knock and talk or was it swat team warrant?... stay up..


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## gr865 (Apr 3, 2017)

Said that in the past, they are in the biz of making money, not policing!


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## Mohican (Apr 3, 2017)

Get off the grid. Then they have zero access authority. 
Nothing scares them more than this idea.


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## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2017)

420producer said:


> I called Excel energy and asked why the fuck they telling on med growers?? and whats their policy on residential power use?.. and was told as long as you are not stealing.?? they not telling... they are in business to sell power for profit..$$ its not there to police citizen use of said power... im sure the CEO. of excel would be hella pissed losing all that money you were giving them cuz and employee felt like telling cops on you... regardless if you were spiking 100kw or just 10kw.. for all they know you turn that hot tub on after a long day of growing.... or 30 1000w hid security lights on your property that come on at same time every day...they just cant guess or assume . what makes them know the spike was grow lights?
> they have to have someone see and testify you were doing something illegal. or they {loveland po po} are lurking on this site and targeted you or your IP address .. did they do a knock and talk or was it swat team warrant?... stay up..


Missed you at the Northern Colorado Hemp Fest last weekend.

In this case it's the City of Ft Collins Utilities, who for some reason don't seem to need a warrant to hand over resident's bills to the local police. No idea why this isn't considered a blatant violation of our constitutional rights.

I can still grow 12 plants, and I am. And I'll use all the power I fucking well please to do it.

They knocked on the door, no SWAT bullshit, but they did have a warrant.


----------



## gr865 (Apr 3, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> In this case it's the City of Ft Collins Utilities, who for some reason don't seem to need a warrant to hand over resident's bills to the local police. No idea why this isn't considered a blatant violation of our constitutional rights.


Get a good lawyer, I see a rights violation here. Fuck yeah Dude, go for it!

GR


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## indianajones (Apr 3, 2017)

here at least, sometimes it's not even the company. it's some ultra 
conservative fuck or snitch for profit employee who has a hard on 
for growers, they just call it in "anonymously". do you have a smart
meter ttystikk?


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## 420producer (Apr 4, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Missed you at the Northern Colorado Hemp Fest last weekend.
> 
> In this case it's the City of Ft Collins Utilities, who for some reason don't seem to need a warrant to hand over resident's bills to the local police. No idea why this isn't considered a blatant violation of our constitutional rights.
> 
> ...


i heard they have a cannabis growing enforcement division. that can come to your home. to check to see if your doing up to your card amount...man well at least you get to still grow. the new 12 plant count.. seems lame..i guess its back to 1 plant per light.. a lil more veg time..and if you can have half flipped form 6 to 6pm and the others 6 to 6am . no spike .. ?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 4, 2017)

420producer said:


> i heard they have a cannabis growing enforcement division. that can come to your home. to check to see if your doing up to your card amount...man well at least you get to still grow. the new 12 plant count.. seems lame..i guess its back to 1 plant per light.. a lil more veg time..and if you can have half flipped form 6 to 6pm and the others 6 to 6am . no spike .. ?


Half can be in bloom, so the other half can get Gaslight timing lol

The truth is they can fuck off with their snooping my power bill.

I'm going to beat this, just you watch.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Apr 4, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Half can be in bloom, so the other half can get Gaslight timing lol
> 
> The truth is they can fuck off with their snooping my power bill.
> 
> I'm going to beat this, just you watch.


Forgive me if u have mentioned it before but on what charge/s have they laid? Are they asset seizing? (i relies this can be a BIG FKN nightmare)


----------



## Bakersfield (Apr 5, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Half can be in bloom, so the other half can get Gaslight timing lol
> 
> The truth is they can fuck off with their snooping my power bill.
> 
> I'm going to beat this, just you watch.


Good for you!


----------



## 420producer (Apr 7, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Missed you at the Northern Colorado Hemp Fest last weekend.
> 
> In this case it's the City of Ft Collins Utilities, who for some reason don't seem to need a warrant to hand over resident's bills to the local police. No idea why this isn't considered a blatant violation of our constitutional rights.
> 
> ...


something sorta happened to my partner. where the landlord called police on them . and when the police came they could do nothing. cuz they were under any sorta plant number.. but it was ft. collins and i do believe they were in week 3 or 4 of flower..well then the landlord tried to evict them cuz of grow.. but judge allowed them to finish grow . and told landlord .. next time put in lease no indoor growing.. they lost the deposit.. but gained on finishing.. this was a few years back when it first came rec. out here. . and just recently. the cops followed someone almost 3 miles . pulled this guy over asked to search his car. saying he thought a drug transaction took place .. the dummy said OK???? and found some money and a lil more meds than he should have.. but the strange part of story was the other person was never pulled over..at all???? like a reverse sting.. cuz the cop had plenty of time to call back up. cuz they both blazed for like 5 min.b4 they both left parking lot.. something smells fishy up here in NOCO.... im going back to the way i used to grow indoors.. ..


----------



## 420producer (Apr 7, 2017)

420producer said:


> i heard they have a cannabis growing enforcement division. that can come to your home. to check to see if your doing up to your card amount...man well at least you get to still grow. the new 12 plant count.. seems lame..i guess its back to 1 plant per light.. a lil more veg time..and if you can have half flipped form 6 to 6pm and the others 6 to 6am . no spike .. ?


i went friday with the Fox Farm rep..speaking of F.F. has any tried their Strawberry Fields?? fruiting and flowering soil mix.? any feed back? thanks


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 7, 2017)

420producer said:


> something sorta happened to my partner. where the landlord called police on them . and when the police came they could do nothing. cuz they were under any sorta plant number.. but it was ft. collins and i do believe they were in week 3 or 4 of flower..well then the landlord tried to evict them cuz of grow.. but judge allowed them to finish grow . and told landlord .. next time put in lease no indoor growing.. they lost the deposit.. but gained on finishing.. this was a few years back when it first came rec. out here. . and just recently. the cops followed someone almost 3 miles . pulled this guy over asked to search his car. saying he thought a drug transaction took place .. the dummy said OK???? and found some money and a lil more meds than he should have.. but the strange part of story was the other person was never pulled over..at all???? like a reverse sting.. cuz the cop had plenty of time to call back up. cuz they both blazed for like 5 min.b4 they both left parking lot.. something smells fishy up here in NOCO.... im going back to the way i used to grow indoors.. ..


I don't know what's going on around here, either.

I think a lot of people still want to believe pot is bad cuz that's what they'd been told all their lives.

No shortage of 'conservatives' who want to tell you how to live, either.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Apr 7, 2017)

Conservatives hate people wanting to have free thought and freedom to do as they see fit.

Makes you wonder how they become so power hungry doesnt it?


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 7, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> Conservatives hate people wanting to have free thought and freedom to do as they see fit.
> 
> Makes you wonder how they become so power hungry doesnt it?


Not at all; how better to force others to do as you want?


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## MMJ Dreaming 99 (Apr 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Missed you at the Northern Colorado Hemp Fest last weekend.
> 
> In this case it's the City of Ft Collins Utilities, who for some reason don't seem to need a warrant to hand over resident's bills to the local police. No idea why this isn't considered a blatant violation of our constitutional rights.
> 
> ...


Hey bro. Have you considered a caregiver license? I heard from someone much further south who has one.


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## ttystikk (Apr 8, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> Hey bro. Have you considered a caregiver license? I heard from someone much further south who has one.


Yes I have a medical card and people who have named me as their caregiver.


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## MMJ Dreaming 99 (Apr 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Yes I have a medical card and people who have named me as their caregiver.


I know someone who's buddy has 5 people and he is caregiver. Supposedly 1- per patient and 50 plants? I will get more details if you like. It may be a dead end. I know based on your posts you are honestly helping people.

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/enforcement/caregiver-cultivation-registration


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## ttystikk (Apr 8, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> I know someone who's buddy has 5 people and he is caregiver. Supposedly 1- per patient and 50 plants? I will get more details if you like. It may be a dead end. I know based on your posts you are honestly helping people.
> 
> https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/enforcement/caregiver-cultivation-registration


Not sure how that's different from what I'm doing now?


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## cannadan (Apr 18, 2017)

very nice TY very very nice...
I am building a new indoor set up...whilst trying to get a first crop off at the same time...
This looks so very interesting and I think I can then make use of the 11'-11" ceilings since I'm medical
I don't believe a capped height of less than 1 meter... would be applied .
I would be still working an mmar prescription and I don't currently have a restriction of any kind with respect to size.
So stretch could have a whole new meaning...
Thanks TY


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2017)

cannadan said:


> very nice TY very very nice...
> I am building a new indoor set up...whilst trying to get a first crop off at the same time...
> This looks so very interesting and I think I can then make use of the 11'-11" ceilings since I'm medical
> I don't believe a capped height of less than 1 meter... would be applied .
> ...


You're very welcome! Let me know what I can do to help your project.


----------



## 420producer (Apr 28, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> Hey bro. Have you considered a caregiver license? I heard from someone much further south who has one.





ttystikk said:


> You're very welcome! Let me know what I can do to help your project.


here is my ode to vertical growing. i might be on to something with this strain


----------



## ttystikk (May 13, 2017)

Well, nice to know I was on the right track;

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/24/technology/upstart30-freight-farms/


----------



## 714steadyeddie (May 13, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Well, nice to know I was on the right track;
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/24/technology/upstart30-freight-farms/


That's far out. The wife and I been thinking about building a home out of freight containers down the road. Nice to know you can build a grow room as well.


----------



## torontoke (May 13, 2017)

714steadyeddie said:


> That's far out. The wife and I been thinking about building a home out of freight containers down the road. Nice to know you can build a grow room as well.


Unless you plan to do it in an unorganized town forget about it.
City permits and engineering costs make it triple a stick build.


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## MMJ Dreaming 99 (May 14, 2017)

714steadyeddie said:


> That's far out. The wife and I been thinking about building a home out of freight containers down the road. Nice to know you can build a grow room as well.


Check out google images section. Some really cool ideas. If you are in the country area, you might be better with a metal building modified with more glass to make it look more contemporary.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1093&bih=506&q=metal+building+homes+contemporary&oq=metal+building+homes+contemporary&gs_l=img.3..0i8i30k1.1916.16046.0.17040.33.33.0.0.0.0.273.5316.0j25j6.31.0....0...1.1.64.img..2.31.5279...0j0i30k1j0i24k1.YEkHFCXQGnI

There are also contemporary prefab homes that are cool but expensive. 
Check this out. 
http://kokoonhomes.com/floor-plans/
They sell this on eBay too. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KIT-House2003-sq-ft-60-xVaryINSULATED-Steel-Soy-foam-DIY-Kokoon-Sips-home-Praire/272640076895?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40130&meid=b1878cf76245468f8f7a126f4863238b&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=272652510100


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## THCBrain (May 14, 2017)

This has prob been covered already but here goes, when your adding the screen to the walls how tight or distance from the tent walls should it be? This is the only thing holding me back from having a go at vert. And which is best bare bulb or cool tubed bulbs?


----------



## ttystikk (May 14, 2017)

THCBrain said:


> This has prob been covered already but here goes, when your adding the screen to the walls how tight or distance from the tent walls should it be? This is the only thing holding me back from having a go at vert. And which is best bare bulb or cool tubed bulbs?


I did 6" stand off from the walls but it probably isn't necessary to do so much. The main thing is good ventilation.

I went bare bulb with a fan blowing gently upwards to carry the heat up and away from the plants. LED lights work well too, just like in the shipping containers above!


----------



## THCBrain (May 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I did 6" stand off from the walls but it probably isn't necessary to do so much. The main thing is good ventilation.
> 
> I went bare bulb with a fan blowing gently upwards to carry the heat up and away from the plants. LED lights work well too, just like in the shipping containers above!


How about the dual spectrum 315w cmh?


----------



## ttystikk (May 14, 2017)

THCBrain said:


> How about the dual spectrum 315w cmh?


By all means, use it. You'll need to have more bulbs and carefully manage your surface area so plants get sufficient light.


----------



## JDMase (May 15, 2017)

Can't wait til you start growing again tty, can't help but feel like myself and all your followers are missing out on some knowledge whilst you aren't. Hope things are good your end.


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Can't wait til you start growing again tty, can't help but feel like myself and all your followers are missing out on some knowledge whilst you aren't. Hope things are good your end.


Thank you very much for those kind words.

I've honestly been feeling pretty down about the whole situation. 

It's really nice to be told I'm valued for my contributions!

I'll get on it as soon as I'm able, I promise.


----------



## ttystikk (May 16, 2017)

JDMase said:


> Can't wait til you start growing again tty, can't help but feel like myself and all your followers are missing out on some knowledge whilst you aren't. Hope things are good your end.


Meanwhile, here's an AMA vertical grow related thread. Please feel free to participate!

http://rollitup.org/t/ttystikks-hydro-technique.940165/


----------



## Bakersfield (May 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Meanwhile, here's an AMA vertical grow related thread. Please feel free to participate!
> 
> http://rollitup.org/t/ttystikks-hydro-technique.940165/


I've been meaning to reply to the linked thread here, but I can't log in! The mods must currently be working their magic over there.

So I've got 2 different set ups, a 2 @ 1 thousand watt vertical bare bulb HPS and a 2 @ 1 thousand watt horizontal hood HPS grow.
I currently get roughly the same yield between the 2 rooms @ 1.5 to 2 lbs per light running fresh genetics each run. If I mono cropped a large yielding strain like my Locktite favorite I could kill it, but I like variety.

So what I would like to do is start incorporating 315 CMH into both setups but starting with the vertical. 
The best solution I've found for hanging these vertically is using a mogul to CMH conversion kit plus ballast offered at Growers House.
Does anyone here have any knowledge on running these lamps vertically?


----------



## JDMase (May 17, 2017)

Bakersfield said:


> I've been meaning to reply to the linked thread here, but I can't log in! The mods must currently be working their magic over there.
> 
> So I've got 2 different set ups, a 2 @ 1 thousand watt vertical bare bulb HPS and a 2 @ 1 thousand watt horizontal hood HPS grow.
> I currently get roughly the same yield between the 2 rooms @ 1.5 to 2 lbs per light running fresh genetics each run. If I mono cropped a large yielding strain like my Locktite favorite I could kill it, but I like variety.
> ...


I had the same issue when clicking the link, just find it in the search on your logged in page and it'll come up


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2017)

JDMase said:


> I had the same issue when clicking the link, just find it in the search on your logged in page and it'll come up


Weird, I just clicked it and it worked fine for me.


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2017)

Bakersfield said:


> I've been meaning to reply to the linked thread here, but I can't log in! The mods must currently be working their magic over there.
> 
> So I've got 2 different set ups, a 2 @ 1 thousand watt vertical bare bulb HPS and a 2 @ 1 thousand watt horizontal hood HPS grow.
> I currently get roughly the same yield between the 2 rooms @ 1.5 to 2 lbs per light running fresh genetics each run. If I mono cropped a large yielding strain like my Locktite favorite I could kill it, but I like variety.
> ...


315W CMH works fine vertically. You need two per thousand watt HPS. I had poor luck mixing the two, the plants hated HPS once they had a choice!


----------



## Bakersfield (May 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> 315W CMH works fine vertically. You need two per thousand watt HPS. I had poor luck mixing the two, the plants hated HPS once they had a choice!


That's funny you say that because I had a lamp failure in the beginning of this current crop and I threw in a new Metal Halide bulb, (switchable ballast) that I had laying around and the plants nearest the halide are much happier with tighter and better developed buds at week 5 than those nearest the HPS.

I'm do for new bulbs so maybe if I refit with metal halides, the plants would get along with the CMH better?


----------



## ttystikk (May 17, 2017)

Bakersfield said:


> That's funny you say that because I had a lamp failure in the beginning of this current crop and I threw in a new Metal Halide bulb, (switchable ballast) that I had laying around and the plants nearest the halide are much happier with tighter and better developed buds at week 5 than those nearest the HPS.
> 
> I'm do for new bulbs so maybe if I refit with metal halides, the plants would get along with the CMH better?


CMH is 25%more efficient than MH with better spectrum and longer useful lamp life. Gotta have the right ballast for them tho.

BUT: If you're going to push money into lighting, go with LED. There's some great stuff here.


----------



## pinner420 (May 18, 2017)

Anyone ever use cannastat nutrient calculator?


----------



## ttystikk (May 18, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Anyone ever use cannastat nutrient calculator?


I've never seen it. Post a link?


----------



## pinner420 (May 18, 2017)

http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm


----------



## pinner420 (May 18, 2017)

Been reading extensively on the head formula over on icmag really good read on balancing cations in coir etc...


----------



## gr865 (May 18, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm


Thanks Pin that is interesting, I use Canna products, but only 200 ppm A&B in veg and 400 in bloom. Working well for me.



pinner420 said:


> Been reading extensively on the head formula over on icmag really good read on balancing cations in coir etc...


I used the H3ads formula for GH Micro and Bloom in coco when I was doing Hempys, got burn every grow, 
I backed off the 6/9 + 1 g Epsom and went with 4/6 + 1 g Epsom and it worked better, still got lots of tip burn. Ended up at a 2/5 + the gram of mag and some Cal/mag and it worked well. 
When I first began using Canna I was using their recommended rates and got burn. Since going to the lower rates no prob at all.
Now at those numbers I add GH Cal/Magic because at 200 ppm extra Calicum is needed to make up what your not getting at Cannas full rate. There is only 44 ppm of Cal at that rate and plants need around 150 ppm of cal, so I make up the difference with Cal/Magic. 
That was probably too much info but it works with the nute program I am using.

GR


----------



## pinner420 (May 18, 2017)

gr865 said:


> Thanks Pin that is interesting, I use Canna products, but only 200 ppm A&B in veg and 400 in bloom. Working well for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice im gonna give it a shot.... plenty of manganese in my ces so i have yet to burn or even push the girls to hard. Been running 1.2 ec forever and gonna give the 1.8 a whirl...


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2017)

I'm kind busy ATM but when I get loose I'll post the nutrient mix I've been using for everything in Tupur lately.


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Nice im gonna give it a shot.... plenty of manganese in my ces so i have yet to burn or even push the girls to hard. Been running 1.2 ec forever and gonna give the 1.8 a whirl...


@gr865 

Okay, nutes.
I use dry nutrient salts and these are really simple;
Calcium nitrate, it's a nutrient double salt
Hydro-gardens brand hydroponic special mix 5-11-26 plus micronutrients
That's your basic part A and B
I run equal amounts of the above by weight.

I run half by weight of epsom salt, also known as magnesium sulfate.

I have MKP, or monopotassium phosphate. I used to use it but not so much lately since I switched to Tupur Royal Gold substrate.

So the ratios;
2 parts Cal-N
2 parts mix
1 part epsom salt

Dissolve the calcium nitrate into solution in a separate bucket from the rest! Once everything is dissolved into solution, add them to your res with some water, then add water until you reach your desired EC. Last, adjust pH.

Stupid cheap, very simple, makes great tasty nugs.


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## Mohican (May 19, 2017)

I just added this info to my ttystikk notes


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## JDMase (May 20, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> 315W CMH works fine vertically. You need two per thousand watt HPS. I had poor luck mixing the two, the plants hated HPS once they had a choice!


I had the same experience when going from CMH for veg to HPS for flower. I ended up going right back to CMH for flower too


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## MMJ Dreaming 99 (May 20, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> @gr865
> 
> Okay, nutes.
> I use dry nutrient salts and these are really simple;
> ...


Hey bro. I am running 4-20-39 from Hydro and up to about week 4 of bloom. The EC PPM really starts to take off around week 4. 
Greg at HG said I probably do not need MPK. Buds are starting to get bigger. At what week in bloom to they generally start to get really big? Week 7? 

I was spoiled by my guru's nute but he disappeared. Really bright guy but very odd with other problems.


----------



## ttystikk (May 20, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> Hey bro. I am running 4-20-39 from Hydro and up to about week 4 of bloom. The EC PPM really starts to take off around week 4.
> Greg at HG said I probably do not need MPK. Buds are starting to get bigger. At what week in bloom to they generally start to get really big? Week 7?
> 
> I was spoiled by my guru's nute but he disappeared. Really bright guy but very odd with other problems.


Not sure who you're referring to, re. Guru nute?

I don't think you'd need any more P either, there's already 20% in your mix.

Do you have a week by week chart? I just run the same sauce right thru.


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## MMJ Dreaming 99 (May 21, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Not sure who you're referring to, re. Guru nute?
> 
> I don't think you'd need any more P either, there's already 20% in your mix.
> 
> Do you have a week by week chart? I just run the same sauce right thru.


Hydro-G has a week by week chart. By week 5 you are up to 1800 EC or PPM!

Yeah my boy from Denver is a nute guru who was gonna do his own line but he kind of weirded out. He knows his stuff. 

Do you know if the area up near Nederland is still chill with MMJ? I know it is expensive but there might be something available.


----------



## ttystikk (May 21, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> Hydro-G has a week by week chart. By week 5 you are up to 1800 EC or PPM!
> 
> Yeah my boy from Denver is a nute guru who was gonna do his own line but he kind of weirded out. He knows his stuff.
> 
> Do you know if the area up near Nederland is still chill with MMJ? I know it is expensive but there might be something available.


Ned crawls with grows. Always has, always will.

I have heard of others who run their nutes that hard at peak bloom, I'm not sure it does a lot of good. I'll keep playing with it.


----------



## MMJ Dreaming 99 (May 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Ned crawls with grows. Always has, always will.
> 
> I have heard of others who run their nutes that hard at peak bloom, I'm not sure it does a lot of good. I'll keep playing with it.


Bro - I think I may be pushing it too hard at week 4 and 5 at 1400 ppm. RH 6.0. About 80.5 deg F and 46% RH/ Dri[p 6 times a night in tupru with cloth pots. Lower water leaves getting some rust and tiny yellow spots. Some tips on the edge curling up. 

Am I too hot on high PPM and back it down? Thanks. 
PS: How is our buddy Afghan King?


----------



## ttystikk (May 23, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> Bro - I think I may be pushing it too hard at week 4 and 5 at 1400 ppm. RH 6.0. About 80.5 deg F and 46% RH/ Dri[p 6 times a night in tupru with cloth pots. Lower water leaves getting some rust and tiny yellow spots. Some tips on the edge curling up.
> 
> Am I too hot on high PPM and back it down? Thanks.
> PS: How is our buddy Afghan King?


@Afgan King has just been busy lately, he's doing his thing.

I've been running EC 2.3 pretty constantly, my RH has been between 50 and 60%, temps in the low 80s under LED lights. The only time I got any leaf issues is when they get too dry, that happened where the fan was blowing directly on the plant.


----------



## MMJ Dreaming 99 (May 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> @Afgan King has just been busy lately, he's doing his thing.
> 
> I've been running EC 2.3 pretty constantly, my RH has been between 50 and 60%, temps in the low 80s under LED lights. The only time I got any leaf issues is when they get too dry, that happened where the fan was blowing directly on the plant.


Trying to keep my RH at at least 45 to 47% Sometimes it goes higher but never about 55%. Temps at 83 on high end and 79 to 80 usually under lights. Maybe RH too low..

It seems since going from about 1200 EC PPM to about 1450 ppm - I notice leaf change. The fans blow over the plants and lightly on plants.

I need more Hydro-gardens because they only had 6 lb bags of 4-20-39. Maybe I will take a leaf over and see if the gals can have Greg check it. The one lady does gardening - maybe reg gardening not MMJ/ 
Thanks.


----------



## ttystikk (May 23, 2017)

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:


> Trying to keep my RH at at least 45 to 47% Sometimes it goes higher but never about 55%. Temps at 83 on high end and 79 to 80 usually under lights. Maybe RH too low..
> 
> It seems since going from about 1200 EC PPM to about 1450 ppm - I notice leaf change. The fans blow over the plants and lightly on plants.
> 
> ...


Please do keep us informed about what they say.


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (May 23, 2017)

"that happened where the fan was blowing directly on the plant."<---!!!!


----------



## gr865 (May 23, 2017)

550 ppm, 5.7 to 6.0 pH, 81 to 84 degrees F, RH 49 to 55%
Does look like they dried some and caused some possible lock out as that to me looks to be mag deficiency.

GR


----------



## MMJ Dreaming 99 (May 23, 2017)

gr865 said:


> 550 ppm, 5.7 to 6.0 pH, 81 to 84 degrees F, RH 49 to 55%
> Does look like they dried some and caused some possible lock out as that to me looks to be mag deficiency.
> 
> GR


So decrease nute PPMs, try to get the RH a bit. I will add a bit of Cal mag. I flushed a little with 6.0 and use Rev Osmosis water. I try to run fans above plants and below lights. The plants get gentle air blowing over plants. Thanks.


----------



## pinner420 (May 26, 2017)

Looking into lung rooms....


----------



## Diabolical666 (May 26, 2017)

714steadyeddie said:


> That's far out. The wife and I been thinking about building a home out of freight containers down the road. Nice to know you can build a grow room as well.


Look into the insulation you will need. I have a 45' shipper..half of its insulated (flower room). The veg is out of commish bc the temps flux too much right now. Im getting the spray foam done which is pricey af..Im dragging my feet bc I have to rip everything out...oh and its pricey af. Figure 3g delivered( per 45' unit), insulation 1-2$k,framing, support beams where cut outs are, wired, sheet rocked,plumbing..it gets insane monies.


Hi tyy


----------



## Budley Doright (May 27, 2017)

We converted a C-can and it was IMO a pain in the ass lol. We through bolted 2x6 framing to the perimeter to fasten all framing. Should have spray foamed but we just used batt insulation and in the colder months the skin sweated even with a great vapour barrier. We are actually thinking of removing the doors and framing in a regular man door. Not sure what is invested as it's an ongoing build it as you get it type of thing and it would just make me sad lol.


----------



## Bakersfield (May 28, 2017)

Diabolical666 said:


> Look into the insulation you will need. I have a 45' shipper..half of its insulated (flower room). The veg is out of commish bc the temps flux too much right now. Im getting the spray foam done which is pricey af..Im dragging my feet bc I have to rip everything out...oh and its pricey af. Figure 3g delivered( per 45' unit), insulation 1-2$k,framing, support beams where cut outs are, wired, sheet rocked,plumbing..it gets insane monies.
> 
> 
> Hi tyy


A few years ago my boss got the contract to to make up about 50 mini 10 foot conexes into modular living and crew bathroom facilities for use on the oil platforms out in the Cook Inlet up here in Alaska. They are stackable and highly mobile to accommodate the changing storage and work zones on the platform.

We would install shaft board metal studs to the interior and then place polyiso insulation sheets between the channels.
They were then rocked with DensGlas paperless drywall and covered with FRP for easy clean up.


----------



## Diabolical666 (May 28, 2017)

Bakersfield said:


> A few years ago my boss got the contract to to make up about 50 mini 10 foot conexes into modular living and crew bathroom facilities for use on the oil platforms out in the Cook Inlet up here in Alaska. They are stackable and highly mobile to accommodate the changing storage and work zones on the platform.
> 
> We would install shaft board metal studs to the interior and then place polyiso insulation sheets between the channels.
> They were then rocked with DensGlas paperless drywall and covered with FRP for easy clean up.


Condensation is the issue. My concern with insulation sheets is water trapped behind it. The foam spray shit stops that all together. You can even get some that can withstand uva sun damage so yiu can spray a layer on the outside also.


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## Diabolical666 (May 28, 2017)

Heres a visual


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## Bakersfield (May 28, 2017)

Diabolical666 said:


> Condensation is the issue. My concern with insulation sheets is water trapped behind it. The foam spray shit stops that all together. You can even get some that can withstand uva sun damage so yiu can spray a layer on the outside also.


Yeah, that makes sense, the best vapor barrier is closed cell spray foam.
Exterior spray foam is loved by animals and insects too. It's so easy for them to carve out a home in the stuff. 
That reminds me of Fairbanks, Ak, it's so cold in the winter there that everywhere there's spray foam on the exterior of things from Quonset huts to water tanks. It's mostly the old urethane sprays that turns orange in the sun and will light up on fire if exposed to flame.

To be honest I don't recall whether or not we drilled weep holes in the flooring to drain any condensation that accumulated on the Steel skin, however we did paint these units for an extreme marine environment and any condensation would have minimum effect, at least for the projected service life of the unit- these oil companies just love to throw money around so the service life could have been very short.


----------



## Diabolical666 (May 29, 2017)

Good point on bugs and animals pecking away at it lol. Wonder if I could do the outside and spray some kind of sealant on that to keep from that happening. Hmmm...lol thanks for the insight


----------



## Mohican (May 29, 2017)

Hempcrete! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempcrete

Cheers,
Mo


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 25, 2017)

Hello, everyone!


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (Sep 25, 2017)

heya


----------



## Jaybodankly (Sep 26, 2017)

"Wonder if I could do the outside and spray some kind of sealant on that to keep from that happening. Hmmm...lol thanks for the insight"

QUIKRETE® *Foam* Coating (No. 1219-81 - gray, 1219-82 - white) is a polymer-modified, fiber-reinforced Portland *cement* based rigid coating for use over rigid insulation panels, *foam* shapes, and insulated *concrete* form systems. QUIKRETE *Foam* Coating can be used above or below grade in *exterior* or interior applications.


----------



## Diabolical666 (Sep 26, 2017)

Jaybodankly said:


> "Wonder if I could do the outside and spray some kind of sealant on that to keep from that happening. Hmmm...lol thanks for the insight"
> 
> QUIKRETE® *Foam* Coating (No. 1219-81 - gray, 1219-82 - white) is a polymer-modified, fiber-reinforced Portland *cement* based rigid coating for use over rigid insulation panels, *foam* shapes, and insulated *concrete* form systems. QUIKRETE *Foam* Coating can be used above or below grade in *exterior* or interior applications.


Im getting this foam done soon on interior..hope this guy isnt too messy with it. Going to cost 1g for half of 1 bib of it includes labor..


----------



## Fastslappy (Sep 27, 2017)

hey haven't been by in a awhile how they hangin ?
check out my grow .crosses
@Fastslappy on ig
i don't post here since the hack
ig just too easy


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 27, 2017)

Hey there @Fastslappy! I split for a long time also, seems like a lot of folks went to IG. Might as well sell your soul to Satan, but I'll probably see you there. I love Lucifer, why not try some Satan? I'm not sure what any of that means, I'm an atheist. We don't have a word for "not an astrologer" why do we have a word for "not a believer in god" - I mean, almost everybody alive is an atheist when it comes to Poseidon, right? But, I digress, like a motherfucker.

I just came back to RIU myself, campaigning to get a security cert for this site, they are free, for crap's sake. Will check out your thread. Peace!


----------



## gr865 (Sep 27, 2017)

I float between RIU, IC and 420.
RIU is where I post my journals, IC is too hard to post pics, posting pics to 420 is easy but they have to many rules.
Hope you can gget the site certified.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 27, 2017)

gr865 said:


> I float between RIU, IC and 420.
> RIU is where I post my journals, IC is too hard to post pics, posting pics to 420 is easy but they have to many rules.
> Hope you can gget the site certified.


I hope they let me help them, if they don't want to do it themselves. It takes all of about 15 minutes.


----------



## Bbcchance (Sep 27, 2017)

I got me a few of them there slappy crosses, gonna have a bloody good time running those


----------



## Enigma (Sep 27, 2017)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I hope they let me help them, if they don't want to do it themselves. It takes all of about 15 minutes.


Certified?

I've been thinking about starting my own forum, to remove all of the BS you find here so people can actually communicate concisely, find information easily without digging through 50 pages of non-sense as well as debunking any and all Bro-Science.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 28, 2017)

@Dumdumdummy here ya go. Start around page 115 or so, unless you're a real history buff lol


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 28, 2017)

Enigma said:


> Certified?
> 
> I've been thinking about starting my own forum, to remove all of the BS you find here so people can actually communicate concisely, find information easily without digging through 50 pages of non-sense as well as debunking any and all Bro-Science.


Its just an SSL certificate so they could encrypt network traffic as a trusted source (so your browser doesn't have a shit fit) and then our passwords, and every other drop of data transacted between this site and the users of it would actually be remotely secure. Any site or service where there is the illusion of authentication (a password) should run on https. Install WireShark or Fing (iOS) and see for yourselves, y'all, go to an internet-enabled café and just watch the naked data flow around. You will never connect to public wifi again, I don't. 
There is literally no excuse not to encrypt, these days, letsencrypt.org made it free and easy. I feel it is our civic duty as citizens of the internet, to always pursue for safe and sane practices to protect ourselves and each other in kind. It used to cost about $100/year or more for a cert, but that was a racket to begin with. Isn't it always? But now there is no reason not to do it, and a legion reasons to support it. $100 was a pretty low bar, but now there is no bar.


----------



## GreenLogician (Sep 28, 2017)

I'm a third year student of computer science and I just did a unit on 'Security in IT and Computing'. I second what that guy says ^


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 28, 2017)

GreenLogician said:


> I'm a third year student of computer science and I just did a unit on 'Security in IT and Computing'. I second what that guy says ^


Easy to spot a guy who knows WTF he's talking about, isn't it? That's why I value his advice so much!


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 28, 2017)

Aw shit, guys. Thanks, T


----------



## greg nr (Sep 28, 2017)

https and encryption is a hard concept for people to understand. I see a lot of eyes glaze over.

But look at it this way, every time you make a post, pretend you just wrote it on a postcard (or series of postcards) with your usename and a return address to the computer you wrote it on. Now every post office your card goes through can read the entire message and know who sent it. It will have your username, the contents of the message, forum, and message id. Everything will be on those postcards; even the pretty pictures you post

They don't even need to log into RIU if they have access to one of the post offices (router in real life) your message goes through. They can sort through everything there. Several ISP's have given the NSA direct access to core routers....

With encryption, all that is visible/readable is the originator address and the destination address. Let's pretend/assume for the moment that they can't actually defeat the encryption on https.  They can't connect your origination address with any post at RIU. All they know is that someone with your IP address (which can be isolated to your address/apt) sent a message to riu. They just don't know which message or what was in it.

So that's why such a simple step is important. It may also be why they won't add it. Without https, the guvvies are less likely to seize their gear and rifle through their records. Since the guvvies don't need to do that, they are protected in a way. Just guessin there, may not be a reason at all.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 28, 2017)

greg nr said:


> https and encryption is a hard concept for people to understand. I see a lot of eyes glaze over.
> 
> But look at it this way, every time you make a post, pretend you just wrote it on a postcard (or series of postcards) with your usename and a return address to the computer you wrote it on. Now every post office your card goes through can read the entire message and know who sent it. It will have your username, the contents of the message, forum, and message id. Everything will be on those postcards; even the pretty pictures you post
> 
> ...


If that's their reason, and I seriously doubt it has been thought through that deeply, then their logic is painfully flawed. Also, who runs bare metal servers these days? lol, but I take your point, thanks for covering it in more detail. I'm not personally worried about the govt forces so much as I am about squirrelly cyberpunks with too much time on their hands.


----------



## greg nr (Sep 28, 2017)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Also, who runs bare metal servers these days?


I'm a consultant and routinely see large (and I mean large) database servers deployed to physical servers. Most large customers virtualize most of their app servers, but smaller ones are still stuck on mostly (older) physical servers. There is a maturity model that some companies don't get very far along with......

Still, even VM's have to run on physical boxes. And even in the cloud, there is a data center with servers, networks, and storage somewhere. People tend to forget that the cloud is really a physical entity presented virtually.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Sep 28, 2017)

greg nr said:


> I'm a consultant and routinely see large (and I mean large) database servers deployed to physical servers. Most large customers virtualize most of their app servers, but smaller ones are still stuck on mostly (older) physical servers. There is a maturity model that some companies don't get very far along with......
> 
> Still, even VM's have to run on physical boxes. And even in the cloud, there is a data center with servers, networks, and storage somewhere. People tend to forget that the cloud is really a physical entity presented virtually.


Oh sorry if I gave you the wrong idea. I understand, there are a lot of bare metal servers in the enterprise for various reasons, and a lot of small companies are still on shared hosts like Dreamhost or whatever. That was just a joke, really. People do seem to forget the cloud is still just servers. Heck, even "serverless" services like AWS Lambda have to live somewhere.


----------



## Enigma (Sep 28, 2017)

GreenLogician said:


> I'm a third year student of computer science and I just did a unit on 'Security in IT and Computing'. I second what that guy says ^


Would you be interested in running security for an up-and-coming cannabis forum?


----------



## Dumdumdummy (Sep 28, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> @Dumdumdummy here ya go. Start around page 115 or so, unless you're a real history buff lol


Thank you! I appreciate you taking the time.


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## GreenLogician (Sep 28, 2017)

Enigma said:


> Would you be interested in running security for an up-and-coming cannabis forum?


No thanks, I don't have the time between studying and hobbies


----------



## Fastslappy (Sep 28, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> I got me a few of them there slappy crosses, gonna have a bloody good time running those


Start a thread I'll post sum pix


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## rollyouron (Mar 30, 2018)

TTYSTIKK I'm not going to lie and say I've read all 218 pages. I've read enough to know you know what in the hell you're doing! Great job! If I'm running 500 watts of 3590"s over a 4x4 scrog, could I cover a 4x4 vertical grow and expect a good outcome with the same led's? Thanks for sharing all the info you do.


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2018)

rollyouron said:


> TTYSTIKK I'm not going to lie and say I've read all 218 pages. I've read enough to know you know what in the hell you're doing! Great job! If I'm running 500 watts of 3590"s over a 4x4 scrog, could I cover a 4x4 vertical grow and expect a good outcome with the same led's? Thanks for sharing all the info you do.


Yep. Growing vertically isn't magic, the plants already know how.

It will take a little practice to train your plants but that's part of the fun!


----------



## ANC (Apr 1, 2018)

Side lighting is more natural.
When we grow with top lighting, it is like digging a hole, putting your plants in, and letting the sun light it from above.
Outdoors I train my plants flat like a peacock tail against the wall like a flat shrub using those cheap metal flowerbed borders.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 1, 2018)

Not a peacock tail but a 7’ dia circle tied to juniper bushes.


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## ttystikk (Apr 25, 2018)

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/09/holland-agriculture-sustainable-farming/


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## Michael Huntherz (Apr 25, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/09/holland-agriculture-sustainable-farming/


Amazing what’s possible with a little bit more compassion for other people, a little more foresight, and a little less greed. Those are amazing farms! What a badass system they have developed.


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## ttystikk (Apr 26, 2018)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Amazing what’s possible with a little bit more compassion for other people, a little more foresight, and a little less greed. Those are amazing farms! What a badass system they have developed.


Imagine what they could do with what we're developing.

Maybe we should market it there first?


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## gr865 (Apr 27, 2018)

ANC said:


> Side lighting is more natural.
> When we grow with top lighting, it is like digging a hole, putting your plants in, and letting the sun light it from above.
> Outdoors I train my plants flat like a peacock tail against the wall like a flat shrub using those cheap metal flowerbed borders.


For Horizontal you almost have to lay everything flat. This is my current fun grow. LSD Pheno #5 Monster Cropper.

From the top

From the side.

Will be posting to my Journal soon, the major trimming I did prior to flip, which will be in a few days. Waiting to get before and after pics.

GR


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 28, 2018)

gr865 said:


> For Horizontal you almost have to lay everything flat. This is my current fun grow. LSD Pheno #5 Monster Cropper.
> 
> From the topView attachment 4127998
> 
> ...


That looks great!


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## kiwipaulie (May 1, 2018)

Good to see your still going ttystikk. I've just started another vert grow of green crack. Haven't run that strain before. 

I've been keeping a low profile down under. But sick of it, so need to crank it up again.


----------



## ttystikk (May 1, 2018)

kiwipaulie said:


> Good to see your still going ttystikk. I've just started another vert grow of green crack. Haven't run that strain before.
> 
> I've been keeping a low profile down under. But sick of it, so need to crank it up again.


Hey my brother, you've been missed!

Can't wait to see what you get up to!


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## kiwipaulie (May 1, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Hey my brother, you've been missed!
> 
> Can't wait to see what you get up to!


Cheers bro. I'll post some pics when the magic starts happening haha. There only a week old in the rdwc.


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## ttystikk (May 1, 2018)

kiwipaulie said:


> Cheers bro. I'll post some pics when the magic starts happening haha. There only a week old in the rdwc.


Send me a link?


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## kiwipaulie (May 10, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Send me a link?


Hey bro. I'm thinking of use a room that's basically 8x10 foot. Planning to vert around the walls. Do you think 2 or 3 1000w hanging would be enough....


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## gr865 (May 10, 2018)

kiwipaulie said:


> Good to see your still going ttystikk. I've just started another vert grow of green crack. Haven't run that strain before.
> 
> I've been keeping a low profile down under. But sick of it, so need to crank it up again.


Good to see you still going at it there KP.
Look forward to seeing you new grow!

GR


----------



## ttystikk (May 10, 2018)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey bro. I'm thinking of use a room that's basically 8x10 foot. Planning to vert around the walls. Do you think 2 or 3 1000w hanging would be enough....


I ran as many as 5 x 1000W in a 6x8' space.


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## OneHitDone (May 10, 2018)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey bro. I'm thinking of use a room that's basically 8x10 foot. Planning to vert around the walls. Do you think 2 or 3 1000w hanging would be enough....


If your only putting plants on the walls 2 1k's should be sufficient and allow comfortable lamp to plant clearances.
Hang the lamps 3 ft in from the "10'" ends and that leaves 4 ft between the lamps.
Can't wait to check it out if you get it up and running


----------



## SSGrower (May 10, 2018)

Personally I want to know how the double sided trellis (plants lit from both sides) worked out? What differences in plant structure are there if any?


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2018)

OneHitDone said:


> If your only putting plants on the walls 2 1k's should be sufficient and allow comfortable lamp to plant clearances.
> Hang the lamps 3 ft in from the "10'" ends and that leaves 4 ft between the lamps.
> Can't wait to check it out if you get it up and running


Not enough light.


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## kiwipaulie (May 11, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Not enough light.


Yeah I'm wondering that.... Might have to go back to drawing board. I only have 16amps at 240v. Need to get back to the drawing board


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 11, 2018)

Maybe I'll build a shelving system to bring it in a bit and do it 10x5 or something and then at least it be able to walk around and work from both sides. You think two 1000w would work ok?


----------



## OneHitDone (May 11, 2018)

kiwipaulie said:


> Yeah I'm wondering that.... Might have to go back to drawing board. I only have 16amps at 240v. Need to get back to the drawing board


Just do some basic math. How much distance between a 1000W bare lamp and the plant should you have?
Then think about my recommendation of 2 lamps vs want the crispy plant guy is saying


----------



## kiwipaulie (May 11, 2018)

OneHitDone said:


> Just do some basic math. How much distance between a 1000W bare lamp and the plant should you have?
> Then think about my recommendation of 2 lamps vs want the crispy plant guy is saying


It's coming into winter down here, so I can easily hang a 1000w in a 4x4 tent. So plants get closer than 2 feet throughout the grow. Having said that, do they need to be that close. That's another question lol. 

What I'll do build a frame and attached scrog screen to that and maybe have it so the 1k bulbs are about 2.5-3 max feet away. So may end up with 6x10 of usable space to grow on. Ideally I'd like three 1k bulbs min, but just don't think I'll get away with it just yet. Once I've fitting a new 30amp breaker and wiring to go with it, I should be good to go, but need to wait a while before I do that, due to other reasons at play.


----------



## OneHitDone (May 11, 2018)

kiwipaulie said:


> It's coming into winter down here, so I can easily hang a 1000w in a 4x4 tent. So plants get closer than 2 feet throughout the grow. Having said that, do they need to be that close. That's another question lol.
> 
> What I'll do build a frame and attached scrog screen to that and maybe have it so the 1k bulbs are about 2.5-3 max feet away. So may end up with 6x10 of usable space to grow on. Ideally I'd like three 1k bulbs min, but just don't think I'll get away with it just yet. Once I've fitting a new 30amp breaker and wiring to go with it, I should be good to go, but need to wait a while before I do that, due to other reasons at play.


I have 3 1k's in a 5x10 but have them on staggered timers. 1 comes on for 6 hours, then the other 2 come on and that one goes out for the remainder of the 12 hour cycle.
You could play around with light timing like that too if breaker load is an issue


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2018)

My old 'Super Silo' design consisted of four trellis panels, 6' tall by 4' wide, each bent along the tall axis into a vertical quarter round shape.

This made a cylinder 6' tall and about 5' diameter. I hung a 1kW HPS lamp about 18" from the bottom and another one 18" below the top. I ran one plant per trellis and usually got 2-3lbs per run. If I had to do it over again I'd run a lot more plants so as to reduce veg times and maximise the canopy. Might be able to pull 4lb that way, from a 5'x5' footprint.

It was a bitch to train plants inside the silo, time consuming and the lights were hot and dangerous. Shutting them off meant working in relative darkness.

Vertical LED meant no more round silos, more room to work and thus better productivity. Flat trellis panels fit into square rooms better as well.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2018)

@Sedan read the above post.


----------



## hotrodharley (Jul 12, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> My old 'Super Silo' design consisted of four trellis panels, 6' tall by 4' wide, each bent along the tall axis into a vertical quarter round shape.
> 
> This made a cylinder 6' tall and about 5' diameter. I hung a 1kW HPS lamp about 18" from the bottom and another one 18" below the top. I ran one plant per trellis and usually got 2-3lbs per run. If I had to do it over again I'd run a lot more plants so as to reduce veg times and maximise the canopy. Might be able to pull 4lb that way, from a 5'x5' footprint.
> 
> ...


I've yet to see it in person but a guy down the road used Samsung strips and drivers on extruded aluminum and basically made all 4 walls and the ceiling of a plywood "tent" lit like a circus. To do 2 vertical screens in. He has just enough room to turn each one daily built on furniture dollies. Waiting for him to let us see.

The guy who's helped him says he built two things like ant farms with a plant sandwiched in each one. Plastic netting in a frame.


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## Tim Fox (Jul 12, 2018)

Hey what's up around here


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## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey what's up around here


Holding pattern...


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## OneHitDone (Jul 12, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Holding pattern...


Whats the issue in a legal state like Colorado?
Can't you at least have a 4 plant personal or whatever?


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## ttystikk (Jul 13, 2018)

OneHitDone said:


> Whats the issue in a legal state like Colorado?
> Can't you at least have a 4 plant personal or whatever?


Long story. I got raided some 18 months ago and I'm STILL waiting for trial.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 13, 2018)

Did they not leave you with a number of plants?


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## Frajola (Jul 13, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Long story. I got raided some 18 months ago and I'm STILL waiting for trial.


r u f... kidding me , seriously?? wtf is wrong with white people, is it legal or not ???


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## ttystikk (Jul 13, 2018)

Frajola said:


> r u f... kidding me , seriously?? wtf is wrong with white people, is it legal or not ???


Absolutely serious.

I'm even in Colorado and have a valid reason for everything they found, including a medical card.

The bottom line is that if they can't get a conviction, they'll just resort to lawfare.

Look it up, it's an excellent term for describing the current situation in the States.


----------



## Med68w (Jul 13, 2018)

Lawfare is no joke, some legal states are making an entirely new revenue stream from “green dui’s”. I think the threshold in Washington state is 5ng per ml of thc in your bloodstream. Just watched an episode of weediquite that talks about it


----------



## DonTesla (Jul 13, 2018)

Med68w said:


> Lawfare is no joke, some legal states are making an entirely new revenue stream from “green dui’s”. I think the threshold in Washington state is 5ng per ml of thc in your bloodstream. Just watched an episode of weediquite that talks about it


Crazy times hey!
They are using tens and tens of millions of dollars (from tax payers no less) to train extra police the nuances of this difficult task.. from various physiological signs (red eyes, cotton mouth), to heart beats, to blood and saliva work.. like you said.. its quite reeeeediculous!


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 13, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Absolutely serious.
> 
> I'm even in Colorado and have a valid reason for everything they found, including a medical card.
> 
> ...


May be time to slide over to another legal state and leave that mess behind you?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 14, 2018)

OneHitDone said:


> May be time to slide over to another legal state and leave that mess behind you?


Can't run away, don't you know.

Besides, I have plans.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Jul 14, 2018)

Its fkd you cannot grow until the case is finalised. From memory it was a small infraction (??) 

Have you been given anytime frame for when the case will be heard? Is it costing you money just waiting on legal fees, etc? Not talking any income from growing just that side of it. As I understand it law is not inexpensive in the US.

I wont take offence if you don't wish to answer the 1st and 3rd Q's.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 14, 2018)

Lucky Luke said:


> Its fkd you cannot grow until the case is finalised. From memory it was a small infraction (??)
> 
> Have you been given anytime frame for when the case will be heard? Is it costing you money just waiting on legal fees, etc? Not talking any income from growing just that side of it. As I understand it law is not inexpensive in the US.
> 
> I wont take offence if you don't wish to answer the 1st and 3rd Q's.


November is when I'll finally get my day in court- and they know their case is weak, they just want to be able to fuck with my life as long as possible.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Jul 14, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> November is when I'll finally get my day in court- and they know their case is weak, they just want to be able to fuck with my life as long as possible.


That's awhile away. Knock em dead!


----------



## phpatrick (Aug 2, 2018)

DAMN it ttystikk, sorry to to hear about your troubles bro. Wish you all the luck in the world handling this B.S.
I miss seeing your walls...


----------



## doniawon (Aug 2, 2018)

Didn't know u had all that going on tty, major bummer. Hope u get something for your loss. Good luck n the court room.. 

All these people blowing up greenhouses n they're fucking w you. Thats insane.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2018)

phpatrick said:


> DAMN it ttystikk, sorry to to hear about your troubles bro. Wish you all the luck in the world handling this B.S.
> I miss seeing your walls...


Thanks for the kind words. I'm fighting for all of us and I won't give up.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2018)

doniawon said:


> Didn't know u had all that going on tty, major bummer. Hope u get something for your loss. Good luck n the court room..
> 
> All these people blowing up greenhouses n they're fucking w you. Thats insane.


Pretty much a personal vendetta on the part of an incompetent local yokel.

The jury instructions alone are exculpatory.


----------



## Fastslappy (Aug 3, 2018)

Jury nullification a possibility ?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2018)

Fastslappy said:


> Jury nullification a possibility ?


That's just an acquittal away and they'll have lots of good reasons to do it.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Aug 4, 2018)

Keep us updated as u go TT. We all wish ya luck.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 5, 2018)

Lucky Luke said:


> Keep us updated as u go TT. We all wish ya luck.


I will. I have nothing to hide; I'm creating tech to make the world a better place while helping sick people feel better. I will not let the State tell me that I'm a criminal for doing it. This is exactly what we have fought for, what has taken nearly a century to achieve.

I really appreciate your support.


----------



## potpimp (Sep 3, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> I will. I have nothing to hide; I'm creating tech to make the world a better place while helping sick people feel better. I will not let the State tell me that I'm a criminal for doing it. This is exactly what we have fought for, what has taken nearly a century to achieve.
> 
> I really appreciate your support.


Best wishes from me too. That really sucks. Trump said at the outset that he saw no reason why medical MJ should be kept from people that needed it. I know he's got a lot bigger fish to fry right now but I believe he will make medi legal on the federal level, just maybe not before we would like that to happen. We've kind of got our lives on hold waiting for that too.


----------



## TurboTokes (Sep 21, 2018)

Look forward to seeing you move past this


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 21, 2018)

TurboTokes said:


> Look forward to seeing you move past this


Me too.

I recently heard the prosecutor was shopping my case around her office because she wanted to go on vacation when the trial is scheduled for.

No one would take it; they all thought it was a loser!


----------



## JDMase (Sep 22, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Me too.
> 
> I recently heard the prosecutor was shopping my case around her office because she wanted to go on vacation when the trial is scheduled for.
> 
> No one would take it; they all thought it was a loser!


Great to hear, you'll be back to it in no time! fingers crossed for you dude


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 22, 2018)

JDMase said:


> Great to hear, you'll be back to it in no time! fingers crossed for you dude


Frankly, I'm not letting this stop me, I've just shifted gears.

My start-up is coming along nicely, thank you!


----------



## pinner420 (Sep 24, 2018)

Have you messed with 3d printing at all... Been looking at g-towers..


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 24, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Have you messed with 3d printing at all... Been looking at g-towers..


Not yet. I've been waiting for prices of the raw materials to get a bit more reasonable.


----------



## pinner420 (Sep 25, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Not yet. I've been waiting for prices of the raw materials to get a bit more reasonable.


I'm gonna dig in after this next round see what the best value proposition might be for that. I think if its hassle free I'll scale it up etc. Creating jobs is a challenge..


----------



## bicit (Oct 4, 2018)

Damn, still fighting that issue? Bet the lawyers are loving the payout.... 

Hope to see some more of your ideas soon.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 10, 2018)

bicit said:


> Damn, still fighting that issue? Bet the lawyers are loving the payout....
> 
> Hope to see some more of your ideas soon.


Hey buddy! Long time no see...

Yes, still fighting. They don't like it when people actually demand their rights be respected.


----------



## gr865 (Oct 10, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Hey buddy! Long time no see...
> 
> Yes, still fighting. They don't like it when people actually demand their rights be respected.


That is why there are a number of us Libertarians around!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 10, 2018)

gr865 said:


> That is why there are a number of us Libertarians around!


They've put off the trial for 2 years already.

They hate it when we demand our rights.


----------



## elkamino (Oct 10, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> They've put off the trial for 2 years already.


 Do your attorneys think they will eventually just drop it? If not then why the two year delay?? I imagine it’s fucking expensive for you… And taxpayers too WTF


----------



## doniawon (Oct 10, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> They've put off the trial for 2 years already.
> 
> They hate it when we demand our rights.


Good for you tty.
Just filed restitution for grow items etc!!
Had a mob here checking things out.
All went well!. Waiting to see if I get paid for my "damaged property". 
Court keeps getting pushed out aswell. But not on my end. 
Have a meeting w attorney regarding my 12 that were destroyed. 
Could b a good thing. Just nervous. Surreal


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 11, 2018)

elkamino said:


> Do your attorneys think they will eventually just drop it? If not then why the two year delay?? I imagine it’s fucking expensive for you… And taxpayers too WTF


Oh, they're dead set on trying the case. After all, it's not THEIR money they're wasting.


----------



## thumper60 (Oct 11, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> They've put off the trial for 2 years already.
> 
> They hate it when we demand our rights.


they r hoping u fuckup!! make their job a lot easyer


----------



## kiwipaulie (Jan 17, 2019)

Hey bro. I've got another vert underway, but feel last time I had them too bushy and want to pin them back to the screen more, but feel I need to trim some steams off and just run like 6 main steams up the wall. I'm just trying to gauge which ones I should trim away. 

Hopefully that makes some sense lol


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 17, 2019)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey bro. I've got another vert underway, but feel last time I had them too bushy and want to pin them back to the screen more, but feel I need to trim some steams off and just run like 6 main steams up the wall. I'm just trying to gauge which ones I should trim away.
> 
> Hopefully that makes some sense lol


Would you not just top until you had 6 main stems and trim back all secondary ones if that’s what you want? Never done a vert per say but I have topped to get 6 mains outdoors.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 17, 2019)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey bro. I've got another vert underway, but feel last time I had them too bushy and want to pin them back to the screen more, but feel I need to trim some steams off and just run like 6 main steams up the wall. I'm just trying to gauge which ones I should trim away.
> 
> Hopefully that makes some sense lol


The main stem should be topped to 4 meristems, give or take. They need to be about even in size. Let those grow out and then too them so they have a similar number of side branches to one another, the fewer the better. It's like growing a pipe distribution network.


----------



## kiwipaulie (Jan 21, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> The main stem should be topped to 4 meristems, give or take. They need to be about even in size. Let those grow out and then too them so they have a similar number of side branches to one another, the fewer the better. It's like growing a pipe distribution network.


Cheers mate, will have to do a bit of work in there tomorrow.


----------



## gr865 (Jan 21, 2019)

kiwipaulie said:


> Hey bro. I've got another vert underway, but feel last time I had them too bushy and want to pin them back to the screen more, but feel I need to trim some steams off and just run like 6 main steams up the wall. I'm just trying to gauge which ones I should trim away.
> 
> Hopefully that makes some sense lol


Hey Paulie, our methods are a bit different, you RDWC and my Coco, but our screening and lighting is set up fairly close. 
I am interested in you trimming back to 6 mains, keep me informed on that please. I use individual screens, 5 separate plants each has it's own screen. I do this so I can move the plants in and out of the tent to work on them.
As far as pinning them back I have found that the thick chenille stems work great, they can be bent to your needs an easily attach to the screen. 
   

Look forward to this next grow of yours and good luck.

GR


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Hey Paulie, our methods are a bit different, you RDWC and my Coco, but our screening and lighting is set up fairly close.
> I am interested in you trimming back to 6 mains, keep me informed on that please. I use individual screens, 5 separate plants each has it's own screen. I do this so I can move the plants in and out of the tent to work on them.
> As far as pinning them back I have found that the thick chenille stems work great, they can be bent to your needs an easily attach to the screen.
> View attachment 4268461 View attachment 4268463 View attachment 4268466
> ...


That looks nice, clearly you've put in the work to train the plant.

When I trained them like that I got disappointing results.

When I topped the plant and kept only 4 side branches my buds were bigger and I got much more usable results.


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

As I recall there was a supreme court ruling in Colorado saying that they don't have to compensate for plants or weed that LEO destroyed or took. Before that there was a case where a guy won money in court because they destroyed his crop and he was proven not guilty (medical and within his count but it was a high count)


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## gr865 (Jan 22, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> That looks nice, clearly you've put in the work to train the plant.
> 
> When I trained them like that I got disappointing results.
> 
> When I topped the plant and kept only 4 side branches my buds were bigger and I got much more usable results.


On my last few vertical grow I have been over a g/w. Is it worth the labor involved, I am retired and this a my hobby so yes it is damn worth it.


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## ttystikk (Jan 22, 2019)

Renfro said:


> As I recall there was a supreme court ruling in Colorado saying that they don't have to compensate for plants or weed that LEO destroyed or took. Before that there was a case where a guy won money in court because they destroyed his crop and he was proven not guilty (medical and within his count but it was a high count)


Yep. That guy won in my county. And yes, that legislation is further proof that the state cares nothing for our civil rights.


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## TheHarvester (Feb 6, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Hey Paulie, our methods are a bit different, you RDWC and my Coco, but our screening and lighting is set up fairly close.
> I am interested in you trimming back to 6 mains, keep me informed on that please. I use individual screens, 5 separate plants each has it's own screen. I do this so I can move the plants in and out of the tent to work on them.
> As far as pinning them back I have found that the thick chenille stems work great, they can be bent to your needs an easily attach to the screen.
> View attachment 4268461 View attachment 4268463 View attachment 4268466
> ...



Nice training.

Espalier is the name of the technique.


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## owsleygarcia95 (Aug 10, 2019)

Fuck I have over 100 pages to catch up on I'm gonna need a pound and an oz of shatter is there a way to convert to PDF so I can print it off lol


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## owsleygarcia95 (Aug 10, 2019)

I dug threw it a little a few months back something about you being arrested assume they pulled the old 99 ...God I fucking hate cops lol


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## codster25 (Sep 7, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Hey Paulie, our methods are a bit different, you RDWC and my Coco, but our screening and lighting is set up fairly close.
> I am interested in you trimming back to 6 mains, keep me informed on that please. I use individual screens, 5 separate plants each has it's own screen. I do this so I can move the plants in and out of the tent to work on them.
> As far as pinning them back I have found that the thick chenille stems work great, they can be bent to your needs an easily attach to the screen.
> View attachment 4268461 View attachment 4268463 View attachment 4268466
> ...


Love the shaft on it, reminds me of my wang


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2019)

codster25 said:


> Love the shaft on it, reminds me of my wang


That's not a wang;
 
That's more like it.


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## gr865 (Sep 7, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> That's not a wang;
> View attachment 4390914
> That's more like it.


Not sure what a wang is!


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## codster25 (Sep 7, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> That's not a wang;
> View attachment 4390914
> That's more like it.


Fuck yes!!!!! Daddy likes


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2019)

codster25 said:


> Fuck yes!!!!! Daddy likes


For size reference, that trellis has 4" squares.

Other plants have had buds so fat I hid a 2 liter Coke bottle behind them.


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## codster25 (Sep 7, 2019)

I


ttystikk said:


> For size reference, that trellis has 4" squares.
> 
> Other plants have had buds so fat I hid a 2 liter Coke bottle behind them.


sick!!!!!gay uncle buck would put those in his ass


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2019)

codster25 said:


> I
> 
> sick!!!!!gay uncle buck would put those in his ass


Leave that shit in the politics section.

This thread is about growing. You should read the whole thing.


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## codster25 (Sep 7, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Leave that shit in the politics section.
> 
> This thread is about growing. You should read the whole thing.


Huh???? What does my comment have to do with reading that whole thing. Not to be a troll but dude you were okay with it when I talked about my wang which had nothing to do with the whole thread. Also gay buck is trolling everyone’s thread. Nothing new.


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2019)

codster25 said:


> Huh???? What does my comment have to do with reading that whole thing. Not to be a troll but dude you were okay with it when I talked about my wang which had nothing to do with the whole thread. Also gay buck is trolling everyone’s thread. Nothing new.


The uncle buck mention has no place here.

My suggestion to read the whole thread was about you seeing the journey that resulted in the pic I posted.

The two have nothing to do with one another and I'd rather it stays that way.

Cool?


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## codster25 (Sep 7, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> The uncle buck mention has no place here.
> 
> My suggestion to read the whole thread was about you seeing the journey that resulted in the pic I posted.
> 
> ...


Okay no problem, he has been ruining everyone’s threads in outdoor. I respect that though all good. Nice fat plants anyway.


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2019)

codster25 said:


> Okay no problem, he has been ruining everyone’s threads in outdoor. I respect that though all good. Nice fat plants anyway.


Thanks, man. My best was 32.5oz from one plant.


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2019)

owsleygarcia95 said:


> Fuck I have over 100 pages to catch up on I'm gonna need a pound and an oz of shatter is there a way to convert to PDF so I can print it off lol


Lol sorry! It's just years of trying and learning shit...


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## codster25 (Sep 7, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks, man. My best was 32.5oz from one plant.


Nice what size container do you use?


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2019)

codster25 said:


> Nice what size container do you use?


These plants were all trained onto a 4' wide x 6' tall vertical trellis panel, so they were meant to get big.

I ran RDWC in 27 gallon tuffboxes and I also ran Tupur Royal Gold brand coco in 5 gallon buckets.

Both averaged about 27oz of finished product per plant, although my best yields were in the RDWC setup.


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## gr865 (Sep 7, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Lol sorry! It's just years of trying and learning shit...


Hey buddy did you get your legal woes taken care of or are they still fucking with you. Can't wait to see you growing again. Miss you informative post.


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Hey buddy did you get your legal woes taken care of or are they still fucking with you. Can't wait to see you growing again. Miss you informative post.


Probation for 7 years, prison if I don't play nice.

For harmless medicinal plants I was growing in the privacy of my own home- and that they had to violate my civil rights in order to prosecute me.


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## myke (Sep 7, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Probation for 7 years, prison if I don't play nice.
> 
> For harmless medicinal plants I was growing in the privacy of my own home- and that they had to violate my civil rights in order to prosecute me.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Michael Huntherz (Sep 7, 2019)

Oh hi!


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2019)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Oh hi!View attachment 4391077


Why yes- yes you are!


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## pop22 (Sep 8, 2019)

Was that the Jillybean in a 5 gallon bucket?



ttystikk said:


> Thanks, man. My best was 32.5oz from one plant.


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## ttystikk (Sep 8, 2019)

pop22 said:


> Was that the Jillybean in a 5 gallon bucket?


It was Jillybean, but in RDWC.


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## rollyouron (Mar 5, 2020)

ttystikk can you grow now or do you have to wait till you're off probation?


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## m4s73r (Apr 11, 2020)

Damn T.... thats some shit bro. Just read some of the back posts. Hit my grow should you come around.


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## borbor (Apr 18, 2020)

Hey buddy, I can't believe to hear about your situation. Let me know if I can help.


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## Dapper_Dillinger (Nov 7, 2020)

tystikk said:


> Hmmm. No one wants to know anything about water chilling, or growing three times as much product in a given space, yet still using less than half the power?


You still around here?


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## ttystikk (Nov 8, 2020)

Dapper_Dillinger said:


> You still around here?


Yep, I stop in occasionally


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## Dapper_Dillinger (Nov 8, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Yep, I stop in occasionally


Hows it hanging? Still rocking vert?


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## firsttimeARE (Nov 8, 2020)

Sup tty! Hope all is well.


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## ttystikk (Nov 9, 2020)

firsttimeARE said:


> Sup tty! Hope all is well.


Hey brother! All's well that ends well lol


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## ttystikk (Nov 9, 2020)

Dapper_Dillinger said:


> Hows it hanging? Still rocking vert?


Not at the moment but I can still answer questions


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## firsttimeARE (Nov 9, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Hey brother! All's well that ends well lol


Still rocking your RDWC design. Got my biggest plant last grow at a bit over 20oz. Green crack. Was under a 480w LED with a half ass scrog (neglected it and then bent the branches over week 4 of flower). Aiming to do better this round.

You still getting dragged through the shit legally?


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## ttystikk (Nov 9, 2020)

firsttimeARE said:


> Still rocking your RDWC design. Got my biggest plant last grow at a bit over 20oz. Green crack. Was under a 480w LED with a half ass scrog (neglected it and then bent the branches over week 4 of flower). Aiming to do better this round.
> 
> You still getting dragged through the shit legally?


Yep, still on probation.


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## Saltman818 (Feb 24, 2021)

tystikk said:


> Greetings, I'm here because I was invited to join here by Logic- at The Head Case farm.
> 
> Apparently he and his sycophants convinced themselves I didn't have anything valuable to contribute.
> 
> ...


How long does it take during the veg cycle to cover something like that. I am blown away by this idea. Combined with monster cropping.


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## pop22 (Feb 24, 2021)

So much for " legalization"...................




ttystikk said:


> Yep, still on probation.


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## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2021)

pop22 said:


> So much for " legalization"...................


Yep: legal for US, not for YOU.


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## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2021)

Saltman818 said:


> How long does it take during the veg cycle to cover something like that. I am blown away by this idea. Combined with monster cropping.


From fresh cutting to bloom ready on a trellis panel this size takes several months. That's why I didn't do it all in the same room, but rather moved the plants from place to place during cloning through early and then late veg. Yes, the plants were fully portable; they were carried from room to room and it was easier when they were clipped onto the trellis panel because it was all one piece.

Only when they were bloom ready for they go into the bloom room, time soooooo they went in 30 minutes or less after the finished batch they replaced came out.

I'm happy to discuss the deets, from nutes to space requirements to lighting and climate control.

I'm working on a start-up now that combines this with my HVAC know-how to cut commercial facility energy requirements by 2/3.


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## m4s73r (Mar 4, 2021)

Proly easier to do with LEDs now. lol


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 4, 2021)

Been forever since u stopped growing. Im missing ur grow pics old mate.


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## firsttimeARE (Mar 5, 2021)

m4s73r said:


> Proly easier to do with LEDs now. lol


Is LEDs even the rights light for vert? Bulbs make sense cause when bulbs are horizontal you are only making use of one side. LED light all you have is one side. Doing vert led seems like the only benefit is less footprint.


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## firsttimeARE (Mar 5, 2021)

Heres a beast of a plant about 4 weeks in using your RDWC system. Probably be my first 2 lb plant.

I added 2 sites to make it an 8 site and I dont know...seems like the water level in the tote with the pump gets low quickly. I tried raising the totes with plants in them to get a higher water level in the pump tote but now i think my problem is so much water is in the lines feeding the totes and theres so much resistance pulling back to the main tote that its being pumped faster than it can run back.

I also dont want to overfill the main tote in case the pump burns out or a power outage and all the water equalizes and spills out over the top of the main tote.

I think the solution would be adding another route back to the main tote like i have on my 12 gal rdwc. One bulkhead per side. This 27gal tote
System only has 3


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## m4s73r (Mar 5, 2021)

You can but were talking a little diferent style of vertical growing, but still IMO its vertical. A picture as an example.



I think you could build someting in a 5x5 and copy this. or maybe a 4x8. Seen pictures where they were stacked 10 high.


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## pop22 (Mar 5, 2021)

picture LEDs on the front and back of a water cooled heatsink, and the meat in a sandwich, then think how many you could stack in a room. A more efficient use of space than using circular trellises. 



firsttimeARE said:


> Is LEDs even the rights light for vert? Bulbs make sense cause when bulbs are horizontal you are only making use of one side. LED light all you have is one side. Doing vert led seems like the only benefit is less footprint.


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## pop22 (Mar 5, 2021)

Sounds to me like you need a lower volume pump. RDWC doesn't need to recirculate rapidly, it just needs to keep the water moving.



firsttimeARE said:


> Heres a beast of a plant about 4 weeks in using your RDWC system. Probably be my first 2 lb plant.
> 
> I added 2 sites to make it an 8 site and I dont know...seems like the water level in the tote with the pump gets low quickly. I tried raising the totes with plants in them to get a higher water level in the pump tote but now i think my problem is so much water is in the lines feeding the totes and theres so much resistance pulling back to the main tote that its being pumped faster than it can run back.
> 
> ...


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## firsttimeARE (Mar 6, 2021)

pop22 said:


> Sounds to me like you need a lower volume pump. RDWC doesn't need to recirculate rapidly, it just needs to keep the water moving.


Yeah the 27gal 8 site has a 1000gph pump. Though my 12gal 8 site has a 550gph and doesnt have these issues.


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## firsttimeARE (Mar 6, 2021)

pop22 said:


> picture LEDs on the front and back of a water cooled heatsink, and the meat in a sandwich, then think how many you could stack in a room. A more efficient use of space than using circular trellises.


I acknowledged the space saving aspect. But there really is no light per growing square foot savings.


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## pop22 (Mar 7, 2021)

Light saving? Do you mean energy savings? Then no, there is not. There is only one way to do that, increase efficiency and we are captive to the industry on that matter. And if I can grow 48 sq.ft of bud instead of 16 sq.ft. in a 4x4 space say, isn't that still a more efficient use of available space?



firsttimeARE said:


> I acknowledged the space saving aspect. But there really is no light per growing square foot savings.


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## ttystikk (Mar 10, 2021)

firsttimeARE said:


> Is LEDs even the rights light for vert? Bulbs make sense cause when bulbs are horizontal you are only making use of one side. LED light all you have is one side. Doing vert led seems like the only benefit is less footprint.


Au contraire, my friend! LED lighting is absolutely the cat's pajamas for vertical grows, precisely because the light is directional; now you just aim it exactly where it needs to go.


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## ttystikk (Mar 10, 2021)

m4s73r said:


> Proly easier to do with LEDs now. lol


Well yeah, but for different reasons than you might think.


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## m4s73r (Mar 10, 2021)

Well you need to come look at my shit and tell me how i should fix my humidity heat issue.


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## ttystikk (Mar 10, 2021)

Lucky Luke said:


> Been forever since u stopped growing. Im missing ur grow pics old mate.


Well thanks, mate! I kinda miss making them.


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## Destroyer of chairs (Mar 11, 2021)

ttystikk said:


> Au contraire, my friend! LED lighting is absolutely the cat's pajamas for vertical grows, precisely because the light is directional; now you just aim it exactly where it needs to go.


Really? This is great as I got leds and wanna explore this later on.
But also thought the only bonus would be footprint with leds. And that with bulbs, efficency would maybe exceed the leds cause of the big area.


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## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2021)

Destroyer of chairs said:


> Really? This is great as I got leds and wanna explore this later on.
> But also thought the only bonus would be footprint with leds. And that with bulbs, efficency would maybe exceed the leds cause of the big area.


Not really, for several reasons. First, HID lamp efficiency isn't as good as decent quality LED lighting, that remains true whatever the orientation. Second, the omnidirectional nature of HID lamps is really only an advantage when growing vertically in a round silo, where the entire inner surface is an optimal distance from the light source. These have their problems, including the round grow in a square room issue. Finally, if you're growing a vertical wall, then the HID lamps will shine down the aisle, wasting a lot of Watts on concrete where it isn't doing you any good.

Ok, now THAT'S covered, let me tell you why you want to run LED lights vertically; because you can grow on a flat wall and the lights will shine directly on it. Hang the LED lighting vertically, you'll need maybe 30" between lighting and canopy, and voila! There's your aisle.

Ask me anything; I know ALL the answers about this approach


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## Destroyer of chairs (Mar 13, 2021)

ttystikk said:


> Not really, for several reasons. First, HID lamp efficiency isn't as good as decent quality LED lighting, that remains true whatever the orientation. Second, the omnidirectional nature of HID lamps is really only an advantage when growing vertically in a round silo, where the entire inner surface is an optimal distance from the light source. These have their problems, including the round grow in a square room issue. Finally, if you're growing a vertical wall, then the HID lamps will shine down the aisle, wasting a lot of Watts on concrete where it isn't doing you any good.
> 
> Ok, now THAT'S covered, let me tell you why you want to run LED lights vertically; because you can grow on a flat wall and the lights will shine directly on it. Hang the LED lighting vertically, you'll need maybe 30" between lighting and canopy, and voila! There's your aisle.
> 
> Ask me anything; I know ALL the answers about this approach


Aware that HID lamps are not as efficient, but yeah I was thinking the silo could possible make up for it, or exceed it cause of the 360° coverage. I'm glad u put that to bed 

How do you do about air circulation? Blasting anything on the wall or just between lights and canopy?
Right now I can't put more lights in that room cause of heat. But when I get cooling in order, vertical is coming next! Does it truly translate directly, 1m2 flat = 1m2 vert, in yield? Cause that is freakin tempting!

My man, appreciate the will to help, truly. Been here long enough to know that u know vertical hah. Very informative threads. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.

Edit. Bonus questions: 
do Ur lights get dirty faster when hanged vert? 
If so, how do u clean Ur boards if they don't have diods covered up?


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## m4s73r (Mar 24, 2021)

You know I bet I could grow 2 monsters in the bed and get a bigger canopy if I went diagonal at a 45 angle?



IM COMING BACK!!! LOL


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2021)

m4s73r said:


> You know I bet I could grow 2 monsters in the bed and get a bigger canopy if I went diagonal at a 45 angle?
> 
> View attachment 4862101
> 
> IM COMING BACK!!! LOL


Why go halfway? Grow vertical! Bonus; you can stand in front of your canopy.


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2021)

Destroyer of chairs said:


> Aware that HID lamps are not as efficient, but yeah I was thinking the silo could possible make up for it, or exceed it cause of the 360° coverage. I'm glad u put that to bed
> 
> How do you do about air circulation? Blasting anything on the wall or just between lights and canopy?
> Right now I can't put more lights in that room cause of heat. But when I get cooling in order, vertical is coming next! Does it truly translate directly, 1m2 flat = 1m2 vert, in yield? Cause that is freakin tempting!
> ...


Just do the usual with air circulation.

Yes, horizontal and vertical square footage are comparable IF you train your plants properly; it's not automatic.

All of my LED fixtures were covered and I recommend in any indoor facility that no matter what the orientation is. To clean LED lights unplug them, let them cool and then use a clean just damp cloth. No fancy cleaners, just water.


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## Kind Sir (Feb 12, 2022)

This is like exactly what I want to do, hang my Scorpion R Spec vertically and use the trellis but use soil. Few simple questions. 

1. How far away was your LED from the plants?

2. My LED SAYS it can cover a 6x6 Veg and 5x5 Flower, what do you think would be the best pot size to use? I’ve only done coco once so rather would do soil I think. 

3. Any tips on best way to train the plant through the trellis? You think you’d be better off having less shoots, and just having a handful or so of bigger shoots? 




gr865 said:


> Hey Paulie, our methods are a bit different, you RDWC and my Coco, but our screening and lighting is set up fairly close.
> I am interested in you trimming back to 6 mains, keep me informed on that please. I use individual screens, 5 separate plants each has it's own screen. I do this so I can move the plants in and out of the tent to work on them.
> As far as pinning them back I have found that the thick chenille stems work great, they can be bent to your needs an easily attach to the screen.
> View attachment 4268461 View attachment 4268463 View attachment 4268466
> ...


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## gr865 (Feb 12, 2022)

Kind Sir said:


> This is like exactly what I want to do, hang my Scorpion R Spec vertically and use the trellis but use soil. Few simple questions.
> 
> 1. How far away was your LED from the plants?
> 
> ...


1. Have not run vert with LED's yet. 

2. In coco I use 2 gallon pots for both vertical and horizontal grows.

3. I don't train the plant through the trellis, I tie the plants back to the trellis.

I use soft ties (craft pipe cleaners) to tie the plants to the trellis.


The back side of the plant/trellis show tied branches with soft ties.


As you can see I don't tie them tight to the trellis, don't want to damage the branch. I make a loose loop over the branch and fasten it to the trellis.


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## TheChemist77 (Feb 12, 2022)

ttystikk said:


> Just do the usual with air circulation.
> 
> Yes, horizontal and vertical square footage are comparable IF you train your plants properly; it's not automatic.
> 
> All of my LED fixtures were covered and I recommend in any indoor facility that no matter what the orientation is. To clean LED lights unplug them, let them cool and then use a clean just damp cloth. No fancy cleaners, just water.


Hey tty, remember me? I spent the last 2 years laying low after a major raid, but it’s all legal now so I’m gonna start again, looking to go to led lighting.


----------

