# Flushing Plants Before Harvest Is Unnecessary says Rx Green Tech



## vostok (Aug 20, 2021)

_IMPACT OF DIFFERENT FLUSHING TIMES ON QUALITY AND TASTE IN CANNABIS SATIVA L_.
Data presented by: _Stephanie Wedryk, PhD, Director of R&D at Rx Green Technologies Taylor Wall, Research Operations Lead at Rx Green Technologies Ryan Bennett, Research Associate at Rx Green Technologies_

*SUMMARY*
Rx Green Technologies evaluated the effects of different flushing times on chemical profile, flavor, and smoking characteristics in Cannabis flower.

Flushing periods of 14, 10, 7 and 0 days were imposed on Cherry Diesel.
No differences were detected between flush treatments for yield, potency, or terpenes.
Analysis of mineral content of leaves indicated small changes in content of iron and zinc.
Taste test panelists tended to prefer flower flushed for 0 days.
*INTRODUCTION*
Taste and combustion qualities of Cannabis are dependent on the chemical characteristics of the flower. These chemical characteristics can be influenced by management practices during the growing cycle. For this reason, many Cannabis growers implement a flushing period where only water is fed to plants in the final days to weeks before harvest. While many cultivators attest to the effects of a flush, no scientific studies have been conducted to validate this practice. Rx Green Technologies has undertaken a first of its kind study to determine the influence of different flushing times on the chemical profile, flavor, and combustion characteristics of Cannabis flower.

*MATERIALS AND METHODS*
Cannabis variety Cherry Diesel (Cherry OG x Turbo Diesel) was grown at the Rx Green Technologies R&D Facility using Rx Green Technologies nutrients and Clean Coco. Grow A, Grow B and E-Plus were fed during the vegetative stage and Bloom A, Bloom B, E-Plus, and Bulk were fed during the flowering cycle. The first flushing period began 14 days before harvest. The other flushing periods were ten, seven, and zero days before harvest. Each flushing period was tested on 12 different Cherry Diesel plants divided into four different groups (replications) spread evenly across the flowering room tables. Flower and fan leaf samples were collected from each flushing treatment the first day of flush and the day before harvest to quantify concentrations of essential plant nutrients. After harvest, trial plants were cured before determining final trimmed flower weight, terpene and THC concentrations. Trim was evaluated by an extractor for THC, yield, and appearance of the extract or “wax”.
To determine smoking flavor and characteristics, samples of each flushing period were distributed to Cannabis industry experts in a blind taste test. Each participant received one sample of each flushing time without knowledge of its treatment. Participants were asked about their personal Cannabis flavor preferences before tasting. After tasting, participants were asked to rate the sample for flavor, harshness of smoke, and color of ash.

Data collected during the course of the trial were analyzed statistically to determine whether flushing times affected smoking quality, flower weight, or chemical characteristics of Cannabis. Statistical analysis of data allows us to quantify whether differences in the numbers are due to the treatments imposed or are results of the natural variations observed when growing plants.

*RESULTS AND DISCUSSION*
Visual differences in fan leaves between flushing times were apparent the day before harvest. Plants flushed for ten or 14 days had leaves that were more yellow, necrotic and dry than plants flushed for zero or seven days (Figure 1a-d). The color of the 14 and ten day flushed leaves indicates a greater breakdown of chlorophyll in the plant, leading to reduced greenness





Figure 1. Fan leaves collected from Cherry Diesel plants the day before harvest. Flushing times depicted are (a) 14 days, (b) 10 days, (c) 7 days, and (d) 0 days.

*Yield, THC, and Terpenes*
The flower weight, THC and terpene content of cured flower were determined for each flushing period. The data were analyzed statistically to determine whether the numerical differences in the data were due to the treatment. Overall, there were no significant differences between treatments for flower weight, THC or terpene content (Figure 2a-c) (P < 0.05). Flower weight per plant averaged 97.3 g and THC content averaged 21.9%. The dominant terpenes in the flower were beta-myrcene, beta-caryophyllene, and terpinolene, giving the flower an earthy and spicy smell (Figure 2c). Overall, flushing times did not impact flower weight, THC, or terpenes in Cherry Diesel. 





Rx Green Technologies recently looked into the cannabis cultivation practice of flushing plants with water directly prior to harvest, which cannabis cultivators have long thought improves cannabis quality and flavor." data-reactid="18" type="text" data-xf-p="1" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(20, 20, 20); font-family: "Segoe UI", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Fira Sans", "Droid Sans", sans-serif; background-color: rgb(239, 243, 227.





and more:





Figure 2. Flower weight (a), THC (b) and terpene content (c) for Cherry Diesel flushed for 14, 10, 7 or 0 days before harvest. Significant differences are indicated at the 0.05 probability level.

*Mineral Content of Flowers at Harvest*
Flower samples taken the day before harvest were analyzed for content of essential plant nutrients. Overall, there was no significant change in the mineral content of flower as a result of different flushing treatments (Figure 3). In Cannabis flushed for 14 days, nitrogen was 6.7% lower than the zero-day flush treatment (Figure 3a). Continuing to feed nitrogen can increase its concentration in the plant, reducing the need for the plant to use its reserves for essential functions. Phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, and sulfur were similar for all four flushing treatments (Figure 3a-b).
There were changes in iron concentrations due to flushing treatments. Iron was at least 50 ppm higher in flower flushed for 14 or ten days (Figure 3c). Small changes were observed for zinc as well. Zinc was approximately 73 ppm higher in flower flushed for 14 days. The fluctuation in zinc did not follow a consistent pattern like iron. There was no significant change in manganese, boron, copper or molybdenum (Figure 3c). Nutrients like iron and zinc can accumulate in growing media over time. Feeding water during a flush may release some of these nutrients from the media into the plant. Additionally, zinc and iron are involved in the breakdown of chlorophyll occurring during senescence.
Data generated from plant parts, whether it be nutrient or THC concentrations, is naturally variable as only small samples of plants are consumed in the analysis. This may explain some of the variation seen in the data presented here. In other crops, ranges exist which indicate whether nutrient concentrations in leaves are deficient or sufficient for growth. All nutrient concentrations detected in this study are within generally accepted ranges of leaf concentrations for each nutrient. Toward the end of the Cannabis flowering cycle, the plant starts to naturally senescence. Plants that are nearing the end of their life cycle will uptake fewer nutrients as they remobilize nutrients from other plant parts. This may explain why little difference was observed in the mineral content of flower flushed for different times.


----------



## vostok (Aug 20, 2021)

continued:












Figure 3. Mineral content of Cannabis flower of plants flushed for 14 , 10 , 7 , or 0 days. (a) Nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium content of Cannabis flower. (b) Calcium, magnesium, and sulfur content of Cannabis flower. (c) Micronutrient content of Cannabis flower.

*Extraction Efficiency*
Trim from Cherry Diesel was sent to an extractor to determine extraction yield and preferred characteristics of the wax. Cannabis flushed for 14 (17.97%) or ten days (18.21%) had the highest extraction yield compared to the seven (16.39%) or zero (16.17%) day flushes. However, the appearance of the wax for the zero-day flush was preferred over the other flush periods (Figure 4a-d). The zero-day flush was the clearest with least amount of nucleation. Although increased flush time resulted in higher extraction yields, the finished product was not as desirable for extraction. 





Figure 4. Wax extracted from Cherry Diesel trim flushed for (a) 14 days, (b) 10 days, (c) 7 days, or (d) 0 days.

*Taste and Smoke Characteristics of Flower*
Cured flower from Cherry Diesel was evaluated by a group of industry experts for flavor and smoking characteristics in a blind taste test. Overall, the duration of the flushing period had no impact on flavor, smoothness of smoke, or color of ash (Figure 5a-d) (P < 0.05). The seven-day flush period had the highest “bad” rating (21.1%) and the 0-day flush had the highest “great” rating (16.7%). Most panelists rated the flavor of the samples as “okay” or “good”. The ten-day flush had the highest “okay” ratings at 48.6% and the 0-day flush had the highest “good” rating at 47.2% (Figure 4a).
The terpene profile, as tested by a third-party laboratory, indicated earthy to spicy flavors for all flush treatments. Most panelists rated the samples as either “earthy” or “sweet” (Figure 5b). Sweet was chosen as the predominant flavor by 38.9% of panelists for the ten and seven-day treatments and 32% of panelists selected sweet as the dominant flavor for the zero-day treatment. Panelists selected earthy most frequently (32.4%) as the dominant flavor for the 14-day flush.

Taste test panelists rated the ash color and smoke quality of each sample. Ash color was predominantly black or gray (Figure 5c). Smoothness of the smoke increased with decreasing flushing time, although was not significantly different (Figure 4d). Thirty-six percent of testers rated the smoke from the zero-day flush flower as smooth whereas only 19.4% rated the 14-day flush flower as smooth. The 14-day flush had the highest percentage of harsh ratings (41.7%) compared to other samples. Panelists were asked for their flavor preferences before testing in order to determine whether personal preference would affect taste test results. Statistical analysis determined that personal preferences did not influence taste test outcomes (data not shown). 





















Figure 5. Results of blind taste test of Cherry Diesel flower. (a)Ratings for overall taste of flower as bad, okay, good, and great. (b) Ratings for flavor profile of flower as earthy, sour, spicy, or sweet. (c) Color of ash after smoking of sample rated as white, gray, or black. (d) Smoothness of the smoke while smoking rated as smooth, medium or harsh. Significant differences are indicated at the 0.05 probability level.

*CONCLUSION*
In a first of its kind study, Rx Green Technologies evaluated the effects of flushing period on yield, potency, terpenes, mineral content, and taste characteristics of Cannabis flower. Overall, the length of the flushing period did not impact yield, potency, terpenes, or taste characteristics of Cannabis flower. Taste test results indicated a trend toward improved flavor and smoke quality with the zero-day flush. While there were no significant differences in nutrient content, there was a trend toward increased iron and zinc in flower flushed for 14 days. The results of this trial indicate that there is no benefit to flushing Cannabis flower for improved taste or consumer experience.

https://www.rxgreentechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/FlushingTimes_TrialReport.pdf

also here: New Research Shows Flushing Plants Before Harvest May Be Unnecessary


----------



## vostok (Aug 20, 2021)

Reposted due to popular demand as I'm sure I posted this here last year but its gone missing ...if re found please submit


----------



## YellowSeeds (Aug 20, 2021)

vostok said:


> Reposted due to popular demand as I'm sure I posted this here last year but its gone missing ...if re found please submit


Hi there Vos, very pleased to read this study in favor of the 0 day flushing. My plants, from the beginning where feed at the right interval, now they sure dont need a 7 to 10 days of flushing for the little I gave them.
Thanks,


----------



## newbplantgrower420 (Aug 21, 2021)

I remember reading this study a while back. 

Conclusion I came to after reading was if theres no difference.... might as well just flush for 2 weeks and save nutes $$. Kind of encourages flushing rather than not flushing.


----------



## OldMedUser (Aug 21, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> I remember reading this study a while back.
> 
> Conclusion I came to after reading was if theres no difference.... might as well just flush for 2 weeks and save nutes $$. Kind of encourages flushing rather than not flushing.


By flushing do you mean just give them water alone with no more than usual runoff or pouring lots of water thru to really flush it out?


----------



## budtoker221 (Aug 21, 2021)

Did they chop the 0 days group 14 days before the 14 day group?
If so that’s another variable, called letting it go longer.

or did they chop them all at the same number of days flowering?


----------



## vostok (Aug 21, 2021)

OldMedUser said:


> By flushing do you mean just give them water alone with no more than usual runoff or pouring lots of water thru to really flush it out?


the latter ....really flush the nutes out!


----------



## vostok (Aug 21, 2021)

budtoker221 said:


> Did they chop the 0 days group 14 days before the 14 day group?
> If so that’s another variable, called letting it go longer.
> 
> or did they chop them all at the same number of days flowering?


the same number of days ...


----------



## OldMedUser (Aug 21, 2021)

vostok said:


> the latter ....really flush the nutes out!


I was asking @newbplantgrower420 but thanx for your input.


----------



## newbplantgrower420 (Aug 22, 2021)

OldMedUser said:


> I was asking @newbplantgrower420 but thanx for your input.


just feeding them water instead of nutrients.


----------



## OldMedUser (Aug 23, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> just feeding them water instead of nutrients.


That's kind of what I figured but to me flushing means putting about 3x the pot volume of water thru to flush everything out. A light flush would be maybe 100% runoff to reduce nute levels to prevent burning.

We need new terminology for what is basically putting our plants on a starvation diet so they use up the nutes that are still present. Basically a bread and water diet but hold the bread. 

I do the same thing if I'm not seeing old fans yellowing by the end of week 7 on a known 9 week plant tho I may still give them some Epsom, K and some sweet the 8th week. Just gave them a mix of silica, unpasteurized honey, molasses, dextrose, Epsom, Big Bud and a small shot of Grow for the one that's yellowing a bit too soon. Day 49 tomorrow and they are both 9 - 10 week girls. Semi organic grow of two large plants with DynoMyco added that can use the sugars.


----------



## Autodoctor (Aug 23, 2021)

Is this snoop dogs panel of experts


----------



## YellowSeeds (Aug 23, 2021)

Thanks ´to you guys. Now I know more about flushing, it is something not that simple. Finally I will flush only one or two days max before cutting.


----------



## Laythy (Aug 24, 2021)

i dont ever flush at the end. i feed normal schedule all the way to the last 5 to 7 days where ill start feeding only water. i have drip system that i feed 8 times a day for a total of 2 gallons in a 10 gallon dirt pot. i feed by hand during veg until they ready to go into the flower rooms so i normally feed daily as needed and feed heavy "flush" once a week with half the recommended nutrients but boost cal mag. that keeps the coco from building up salts. my last so called flush with half nutes is week 3 of flower then i go full blast all the way till the last week where i feed only water. 

do you guys think the weight discrepancy between the 4 groups is an accidental or does flushing actually gived more?


----------



## Aheadatime (Aug 25, 2021)

Laythy said:


> do you guys think the weight discrepancy between the 4 groups is an accidental or does flushing actually gived more?


The weight difference was negligible. It had no pattern to it, being worst in the 7-day flush experiment, but best by the 14-day flush experiment. This doesn't follow any patterns (getting progressively better or worse as the days of flush increase or decrease), and since the difference in yield was so low, I'd say it's just normal grow room stuff - some girls had cross-over lighting, some girls were too close to an AC, etc.


----------



## FermentFred (Aug 30, 2021)

Very interesting to see zinc and iron levels INCREASE in the flushed samples. I wonder how much that accounts for their rated harshness


----------



## sureshot138 (Aug 31, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> I remember reading this study a while back.
> 
> Conclusion I came to after reading was if theres no difference.... might as well just flush for 2 weeks and save nutes $$. Kind of encourages flushing rather than not flushing.


right. you would think starving them for 2 weeks would hurt alot more. lol


----------



## vostok (Sep 2, 2021)

FermentFred said:


> Very interesting to see zinc and iron levels INCREASE in the flushed samples. I wonder how much that accounts for their rated harshness


I saw that and thought plumbing pollutants. ... like old pipes but nah!


----------



## waterproof808 (Sep 2, 2021)

Very flawed study at best. Drawing conclusions based on subjective opinions of "industry experts..." (whatever the fuck that is)....but otherwise no concrete data to back up feeding up until final day of harvest.

Y'all can can keep wasting nutrients by feeding until the last day of flower, true flower connoisseurs have already figured this out.


----------



## Rurumo (Sep 2, 2021)

waterproof808 said:


> Very flawed study at best. Drawing conclusions based on subjective opinions of "industry experts..." (whatever the fuck that is)....but otherwise no concrete data to back up feeding up until final day of harvest.
> 
> Y'all can can keep wasting nutrients by feeding until the last day of flower, true flower connoisseurs have already figured this out.


and yet it confirms what experience growers have said for decades. It may not be perfect but it's a step in the right direction.


----------



## waterproof808 (Sep 2, 2021)

It confirms what exactly?


----------



## FermentFred (Sep 2, 2021)

vostok said:


> I saw that and thought plumbing pollutants. ... like old pipes but nah!


lol didn't think of that, good point. The more I think about it, the less "flushing" by any description makes sense. The whole 3x container thing only ever made sense for people overdoing synthetic nutes, and people don't tend to wait for the plant to die naturally before harvesting so of course it still wants nutrients, why would you starve it? This lends a bit of credit to flushing with molasses, because they're secretly fertilizing not flushing, and organically to boot.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Sep 9, 2021)

waterproof808 said:


> subjective opinions controlled study


Let me fix that for you.


----------



## waterproof808 (Sep 9, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> Let me fix that for you.


Hardly. Still based their conclusion on the subjective opinion of “industry experts”....sorry you have trouble with reading comprehension and the scientific method.


----------



## Billy the Mountain (Sep 9, 2021)

I feel for your clients


----------



## Hiddengems (Sep 9, 2021)

waterproof808 said:


> Very flawed study at best. Drawing conclusions based on subjective opinions of "industry experts..." (whatever the fuck that is)....but otherwise no concrete data to back up feeding up until final day of harvest.
> 
> Y'all can can keep wasting nutrients by feeding until the last day of flower, true flower connoisseurs have already figured this out.





Chungayuwoki said:


> I've been a crop consultant for a long time. Nutrient levels at harvest are a huge impact on crop quality. * Don't listen to ANYTHING that comes from the legal green rush market. The entire scene, the entire weed industry is bullshit *


So you work with Monsanto?


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Sep 9, 2021)

Chungayuwoki said:


> Nutrient levels at harvest are a huge impact on crop quality.


Yes, and because the impact is so "huge", there's practically no discussion around this topic. It's all so obvious.

Hell, why would anybody publish a "study" about this? "Study" sounds an awful lot like "studying" btw, and I've always HATED studying. Reminds me of school.

It's also blatantly bullshit when a company that sells nutrients and supplements finds out that it makes no difference if you use their nutrients and supplements for 2 more weeks per crop or not, and then talks about it.

Wait. Ah, damn.


----------



## rkymtnman (Sep 9, 2021)

Chungayuwoki said:


> I've been a crap consultant for a long time


first correct post you've ever made! well done.


----------



## DrOgkush (Sep 9, 2021)

I feed until the last drink Others won’t. This will never end. Some people flush away. Others don’t. 

this site man lol. 
you flush. Can’t be friends
48hr dark. Can’t be friends 
Defoliant. cant be friends 

People on THIS SITE have grown fire ass flower using all these bull shit methods ALONG with everyone else who chooses not to use them. Still growing great weed. I personally do not do anything advertised above. But I won’t judge those who do. 
10 years ago. I coulda been smoking rat poop in my weed for all I knew. Flushing was not my first question when buying a bag


----------



## Hiddengems (Sep 9, 2021)

DrOgkush said:


> I feed until the last drink Others won’t. This will never end. Some people flush away. Others don’t.
> 
> this site man lol.
> you flush. Can’t be friends
> ...


People act like it's some major feat to grow a weed. It's harder to mess up and kill than any other "crop" plant I know of. Of course everything works.


----------



## DrOgkush (Sep 9, 2021)

People get so angry to be told what they don’t wanna hear. Or wasn’t what they expected.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Sep 9, 2021)

DrOgkush said:


> People get so angry to be told what they don’t wanna hear. Or wasn’t what they expected.


The base on which most Internet hating is firmly built.


----------



## DrOgkush (Sep 9, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> The base on which most Internet hating is firmly built.


I don’t get it. What r u referring to?


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Sep 9, 2021)

I'd also like to throw in that a lady friend of mine is a microbiologist with a PhD in the field, she works with plants in a lab on quite an advanced level (gene manipulation and the jazz). When it came to flushing Cannabis before harvest she was like "yeah... never heard of that; don't see how that would do anything"...

Of course she's a peer-reviewed scientist, so take it with a grain of salt (substitute your favourite over-priced supplement for the salt if you like).


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Sep 9, 2021)

DrOgkush said:


> I don’t get it. What r u referring to?


What you said: people don't like to hear that they're wrong, esp. when they're obviously wrong. So they resort to hating. The equivalent of kicking your feet as a three-year old when mommy wants to take you to bed; sort of.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Sep 9, 2021)

DrOgkush said:


> People on THIS SITE have grown fire ass flower using all these bull shit methods ALONG with everyone else who chooses not to use them. Still growing great weed. I personally do not do anything advertised above. But I won’t judge those who do.


It comes down to a lot of people just being passionate about what they do, and about the product. Not a bad thing.

Probably the KISS method is the best, like in so many areas. The things you've mentioned (flushing, defoliating, 48 hrs) cannot have a meaningful impact or else there would be no discussion: it would simply be done by most people. So, the rational way is to not do any of these things, and instead put the time and effort elsewhere, such as _finally_ getting out of Silver I in _League of Legends_.

KISS is also boring; if you grow as a hobby, you want to make it more interesting, so why not apply the secret sauce that so many people tell you is just snake-oil. Feels good to feel you're right about _something._

People just like fighting about the area they're passionate about. I work in computer engineering, and it's the same over there: endless fights and discussions about things you just can't measure, developers in their trenches playing the game. It can be fun to watch with the correct attitude.


----------



## Star Dog (Sep 9, 2021)

That test done by "industry experts" lmfao, they didn't even grow a sample out then flush it, how amateur.

After some of my own research I'm not convinced.


----------



## Rurumo (Sep 9, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> I'd also like to throw in that a lady friend of mine is a microbiologist with a PhD in the field, she works with plants in a lab on quite an advanced level (gene manipulation and the jazz). When it came to flushing Cannabis before harvest she was like "yeah... never heard of that; don't see how that would do anything"...
> 
> Of course she's a peer-reviewed scientist, so take it with a grain of salt (substitute your favourite over-priced supplement for the salt if you like).


That's the thing, anyone with a background in agriculture or horticulture thinks the idea of end of harvest flushing is ridiculous. I don't even know what people think it does. Remove the minerals already in the plant? We already know that's impossible. Well, look at how many people believe in the Bible or the Koran or whatever-magical thinking is legitimized in their minds from birth. Believing in the mystical act of flushing isn't a big leap for them.


----------



## Star Dog (Sep 9, 2021)

That's not true absolutely 100% there's minerals left in the plant in the plant that are easily removed with water at end of the cycle.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Sep 9, 2021)

Star Dog said:


> That's not true absolutely 100% there's minerals left in the plant in the plant that are easily removed with water at end of the cycle.


Yes, and because that is 100% true, all the vineyards in the world are dropping water from helicopters every year come harvest season, in order to get the bad minerals out of the grapes; lest they end up in your wine.


----------



## Star Dog (Sep 9, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> Yes, and because that is 100% true, all the vineyards in the world are dropping water from helicopters every year come harvest season, in order to get the bad minerals out of the grapes; lest they end up in your wine.


I'm sorry I've never smoked grapes before?


----------



## JimmiP (Sep 13, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> first correct post you've ever made! well done.


Holy crap you chased em away! Lol!


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 14, 2021)

So glad I found this again. When I first started growing hydroponic “tomatos” 30 years ago no one ever heard of flushing. I might have topped of the reservoir for an extra week or so instead of a reservoir change out and hence the EC dropped to like 1.2 from the 1.8 target. That was the extent of any flush I ever did. 

Fast forward to the legal days and wow, so many secret sauces and techniques that the bro science experts at the hydro store say are mandatory to produce high quality weed I’m surprised I pulled off a harvest at all. And honestly some of those “tomatoes” were better than what I grow today. 

And yeah, lots of hate and peeps don’t want to take the experiment at face value. There’s both subjective and objective components to the study. Yet they focus on just the taste test. Duh! Taste and buzz effects by definition are subjective. But mineral content in leaves is objective.

So for me I’m not worried about a flush. That is if I need to chop I’m not gonna be like OMG I gotta wait 2 weeks. Nor will I be overly concerned about mixing up a new reservoir if I’m close to harvest. Just top it off w water. Since the outcomes won’t really change I’m taking the path of least resistance.


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 14, 2021)

I just went through a flushing on my flowering plants. Well water, rain water, hi pH water, no change to the runoff pH at all. Still 5.5-5.8.

But the color of the run off went from dark urine color to almost clear today. And the dark urine color when I dumped it in the grass outside the door smelled just like some mammal urine. Must be Uera? But today I'm starting to get the yellow tips so the end of the flushing for me.

I think I need to just water to run off every time with the regular feed.


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 14, 2021)

Three Berries said:


> I just went through a flushing on my flowering plants. Well water, rain water, hi pH water, no change to the runoff pH at all. Still 5.5-5.8.
> 
> But the color of the run off went from dark urine color to almost clear today. And the dark urine color when I dumped it in the grass outside the door smelled just like some mammal urine. Must be Uera? But today I'm starting to get the yellow tips so the end of the flushing for me.
> 
> I think I need to just water to run off every time with the regular feed.


What are you feeding them? Do you have to add pH up?


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 14, 2021)

That's funny...a Nute company saying...hey.. flushing is fake....keep using me!!  Not biased at all.


----------



## conor c (Oct 15, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> That's funny...a Nute company saying...hey.. flushing is fake....keep using me!!  Not biased at all.


Each to there own ive tried it both ways i know i prefer flushed buds over not any day so i say to everyone draw your own conclusions try it both ways what ever you prefer run with that


----------



## Horselover fat (Oct 16, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> That's funny...a Nute company saying...hey.. flushing is fake....keep using me!!  Not biased at all.


Uhm, I wouldn't come up with results saying last two weeks of feed is pretty much irrelevant, if I was trying to pump up my nute sales.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2021)

Horselover fat said:


> Uhm, I wouldn't come up with results saying last two weeks of feed is pretty much irrelevant, if I was trying to pump up my nute sales.


Read it and it seemed like it was endorsing to feed till harvest, that flavor didn't change (between the two studies) of flushing vs not flushing till harvest (feeding). So why not just keep using our stuff..


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 16, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> Read it and it seemed like it was endorsing to feed till harvest, that flavor didn't change (between the two studies) of flushing vs not flushing till harvest (feeding). So why not just keep using our stuff..


They made no recommendations either way. They said that the taste panel slightly preferred flowers from plants that were fed until harvest.

The main result of the study was: flushing in the sense of stopping to feed has no significant effect. Seems like a good way to save a few nutrients.

I've decided to not give a damn in my grows and I'll just feed right to the end, with either flowering or late-flowering nutrients. Keeps things simple.


----------



## budtoker221 (Oct 16, 2021)

What is the most typical hydro or dtw style nutrient regimen for the last weeks flower before harvest?
Do most people taper off the bloom /P in the last weeks to a lower level NPK,?

For example here’s a general hydroponic trio feeding schedule from the website sensigarden:

“Early Flowering – 4ml/gal FloraMicro, 3ml/gal FloraGro and 5ml/gal FloraBloom 

Peak flowering – 3ml/gal FloraMicro, 1 ml/gal FloraGro and 8ml/gal FloraBloom

Flush – 2.5ml/gal of each part for three days, then FloraKleen if growing in coco coir or soil perlite mix.Follow up by plain RO water or de-chlorinated water w/ one tsp/gal (2.5ml) of molasses if you so desire.
“

This website suggests actually bumping up the floragrow component during the first 3 days of the “flush” period









The Best Way to Use General Hydroponics Flora Series to Grow Cannabis!


If you use the General Hydroponics Flora Series to grow cannabis or are looking to start using this nutrient line and are wondering where to start, the best way to use flora series and solid tested guides for marijuana. Everything is waiting for you inside.




sensigarden.com


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 16, 2021)

They suggest something that amounts to flushing, which means they're following a cargo cult, at least they haven't tested their method systematically.

The numbers that they give are much too high for GH nutrients. If you feed that you will burn a lot of strains.

What they suggest as a "flush" is the regular schedule that I feed through the entire transition and early flowering phase (apart from the fact that flushing is not necessary in the first place).

FloraKleen (FlashClean) is good for getting nutrient deposits out of the medium, e.g. when changing the feed or after overfeeding. It's not going to do much if anything as a pre-harvest treatment, but it can be useful to clean the equipment and the medium if you want to reuse it.

GH(E) sell a late-flowering fertilizer called "Ripen" (FinalPart) that you're supposed to use in the last 10-15 days exclusively. It contains no nitrogen; I have no idea if it's worth using.


----------



## budtoker221 (Oct 16, 2021)

Yea I wasn’t going to use the floralclean product but was considering following the rest of the protocol on that website, but if the numbers are too high than maybe the Lucas formula all the way through flower but cut in half the last week or so? Or just go from full strength Lucas formula to water for the last week?


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 16, 2021)

budtoker221 said:


> Or just go from full strength Lucas formula to water for the last week?


I have no experience with Lucas. I'm using GHE nutrients (which is the European part of GH, now independent and changed their name to "Terra Aquatica" after GH was swallowed by some Big Ag). The formula of GH and GHE appear to be the same.

The schedule suggested by GH will burn the plants (it has happened to me), and growers experienced with them suggest going with half the listed numbers. That has worked very well for me.

Lucas 5/10 for GH is quite close to what I feed, 8/16 seems a tad high, but since there's no "grow" in it, it might be OK. It works for a lot of people.

Going to plain water in the last week should be OK. Applying FlashClean (FloraKleen) will probably not do much, but it's good if you want to rinse/clean the system and medium. It's also good if you have overfertilized or want to change nutrients, to get the nutes out of the medium quickly.

Their formula for FloraKleen is secret, so it's impossible to know how well it works and why.


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 16, 2021)

Here's the MSDS for the Florakleen. ph of 4. Doesn't say what it is though.



https://www.onestopgrowshop.co.uk/mwdownloads/download/link/id/248/


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 16, 2021)

Three Berries said:


> Here's the MSDS for the Florakleen. ph of 4. Doesn't say what it is though.


Yes, it's a trade secret and they don't have to publish that information on the safety sheets.

pH of 4 makes sense, it does lower water pH by quite a bit at the recommended dilution (my tap water is close to 8 and I don't have to use a lot of pH- with FlashClean to get to 6).

It faintly smells of "cleaning product", but not in an unpleasant way.


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 16, 2021)

Three Berries said:


> Here's the MSDS for the Florakleen. ph of 4. Doesn't say what it is though.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.onestopgrowshop.co.uk/mwdownloads/download/link/id/248/


It might have citric acid in it.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2021)

To feed or not to feed...that is the question...


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> It might have citric acid in it.


I've got some citric acid. I should see what kind of a concentration it takes to make 4.0 pH.


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 16, 2021)

Three Berries said:


> I've got some citric acid. I should see what kind of a concentration it takes to make 4.0 pH.


It a chelating agent. People use molasses as a flushing agent too.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> It a chelating agent. People use molasses as a flushing agent too.


that and epsom salt


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 16, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> that and epsom salt


I've never heard of people using Epsom salt for flushing. Interesting.

That doesn't really make sense though to me.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> I've never heard of people using Epsom salt for flushing. Interesting.
> 
> That doesn't really make sense though to me.


I think it's a European thing...


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 16, 2021)

Epsom salt decomposes to Mg and sulfuric acid.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2021)

Three Berries said:


> Epsom salt decomposes to Mg and sulfuric acid.


Epsom salt is Mg and Sulphar. https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-epsom-salts-a-natural-hack-to-grow-healthy-cannabis-plants-n837


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 16, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> I have no experience with Lucas. I'm using GHE nutrients (which is the European part of GH, now independent and changed their name to "Terra Aquatica" after GH was swallowed by some Big Ag). The formula of GH and GHE appear to be the same.
> 
> The schedule suggested by GH will burn the plants (it has happened to me), and growers experienced with them suggest going with half the listed numbers. That has worked very well for me.
> 
> ...


Not to hijack but Lucas formula is ignorance. Why? Just not add grow? They say you can get you N from more Micro. But did you know grow is 2-1-6? So yeah grow doesn’t just equal N. That’s dumb bro science. Buy the extra bottle. In the end it’s a wash cost wise as the cost per gal is basically the same.


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 16, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> Epsom salt is Mg and Sulphar. https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-epsom-salts-a-natural-hack-to-grow-healthy-cannabis-plants-n837


MgSO4, strip the Mg+ and that leaves the SO4- looking for a pair of H+. H2SO4 is sulfuric acid.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 16, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> Not to hijack but Lucas formula is ignorance. Why? Just not add grow? They say you can get you N from more Micro. But did you know grow is 2-1-6? So yeah grow doesn’t just equal N. That’s dumb bro science. Buy the extra bottle. In the end it’s a wash cost wise as the cost per gal is basically the same.


I tend to agree with regards to Lucas. The manufacturer of the nutrients did not put their formula together nilly-willy. It's in 3 parts for a reason. Lucas leaves out one part and substitutes by increasing the amounts of the other two. That's not going to be the same result.

If I want a two-part nutrient, I'll buy a two-part nutrient.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2021)

Three Berries said:


> MgSO4, strip the Mg+ and that leaves the SO4- looking for a pair of H+. H2SO4 is sulfuric acid.


Awesome


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 17, 2021)

That's also how the pH level drops. As the Mg and other metals are striped and used it always leaves behind a negative charge ion looking for the H+ acid maker. H2O2 is similar as it will decay to H2O with the O+ , O3>O2 and O+ all looking for something to latch on to, aka reduction (of charge) but not necessarily acid forming.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2021)

well, this thread made me feed in the middle of a two week flush ...thanks. I think.


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 17, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> well, this thread made me feed in the middle of a two week flush ...thanks. I think.


I just got done with a 5 day flush and am back to nutes ever other time. I finally got one up to 5.9 but gave up.


----------



## hotrodharley (Oct 19, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> Not to hijack but Lucas formula is ignorance. Why? Just not add grow? They say you can get you N from more Micro. But did you know grow is 2-1-6? So yeah grow doesn’t just equal N. That’s dumb bro science. Buy the extra bottle. In the end it’s a wash cost wise as the cost per gal is basically the same.


I run Lucas. I never have issues from excess nitrogen and my grows rock. I get the weight and the quality. So I know you haven’t actually run it.


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 19, 2021)

hotrodharley said:


> I run Lucas. I never have issues from excess nitrogen and my grows rock. I get the weight and the quality. So I know you haven’t actually run it.


I unfortunately did. Have you tried running the GH feed chart??? Why would you eliminate one of the key components of a 3 part system? If you want a 2 part why not buy a 2 part.
Try it as GH feed chart will give better results than the half baked bro science. You are not saving money.


----------



## jondamon (Oct 19, 2021)

Three Berries said:


> Here's the MSDS for the Florakleen. ph of 4. Doesn't say what it is though.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.onestopgrowshop.co.uk/mwdownloads/download/link/id/248/


Not finished reading further than this reply yet but most drip clean style products are usually H2o2 and copper solutions (Dutch Pro keep it clean is) personally haven’t used any.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 19, 2021)

jondamon said:


> Not finished reading further than this reply yet but most drip clean style products are usually H2o2 and copper solutions (Dutch Pro keep it clean is) personally haven’t used any.


Dutch Pro Keep It Clean has an entirely different purpose than FloraKleen.


----------



## jondamon (Oct 19, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> Dutch Pro Keep It Clean has an entirely different purpose than FloraKleen.


ah right my bad sorry.


----------



## J232 (Oct 19, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> I unfortunately did. Have you tried running the GH feed chart??? Why would you eliminate one of the key components of a 3 part system? If you want a 2 part why not buy a 2 part.
> Try it as GH feed chart will give better results than the half baked bro science. You are not saving money.


It sounds like you just don’t understand. How bout one part Lucas? Gh trio isn’t the only option.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 19, 2021)

J232 said:


> It sounds like you just don’t understand. How bout one part Lucas? Gh trio isn’t the only option.


I'm pretty sure he understands quite well.

Lucas is a hack; it's not necessary. Let's move on.


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 19, 2021)

J232 said:


> It sounds like you just don’t understand. How bout one part Lucas? Gh trio isn’t the only option.


Yeah FloraNova is an awesome 1 part used it works great. I preach that to my buddies, and mom, that just want to grow a couple plants on deck and don’t really want to dive into the details and nuances. And I have some friends killing it with FloraNova. And others with maxibloom albeit some use additives. So yeah 1,2,3 parts whatever but if you buy a 3 part nute line you are pretty arrogant, or dumb, to think you figured out a way to only use 2/3s.


----------



## medicaloutlaw (Oct 19, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> Yes, and because that is 100% true, all the vineyards in the world are dropping water from helicopters every year come harvest season, in order to get the bad minerals out of the grapes; lest they end up in your wine.


That is1000% totally untrue. My family traveled from Oklahoma back in the 70s to California bought an old run-down Winery (Far Niente) restored it and created an empire in Oakville California. They now own Far Niente, Nickel and Nickel, Dolce, EnRoute, Bella Union and Element 28 Wineries. They utilize biodynamic farming which is completely reliant on soil health. As for bad minerals..lol there are none. Each mineral in the soil is there because it is supposed to be and has a purpose. And each vineyard has different soil compounds even those properties side by side. It's the minerals in the unique types of soils created in each vineyard (and just about all the soil has been imported from different areas of the globe) that give each brand is flavor and aroma (unless topical fertilization is used as in some lessor non-organic vineyards). The only other factor that contributes to wine flavor and aroma is the age of the vines with mature at 8-12 years and can be as old as 50-60 years. Older plants have a distinct fruit flavor profile.

The only reason to "wash" the fruit before harvest is in heavy dust areas and that very light practice would not be by air. But by miniature tractors. dbuilt to go up the narrow rows. Watering just before and during harvest waters down the quality of the juice. And just before and at harvest is when the quality is at its peak. Matter of fact they watch the weather rather closely and harvest before the rain if any is expected during the harvest window. Even with the wildfires in that area that have been so close, (a 20 ft road at Far Niente is what saved them a few years ago as a firebreak) Winemakers have not resorted to washing fruit even though the smoke has affected flavor.

So NO THEY DO NOT FLUSH GRAPES/VINES AT VINEYARDS. In all my trips to Oakville and Napa Valley The only helicopters Ive ever seen were private transportation Though if you get up early and go outside the only thing you see flying are hot air balloons up the length of Napa Valley. Now in some climates helicopters can be used for frost control in the case of young vines. Otherwise there is no use for a helicopter at a vineyard.

Im not a cannabis flusher and its not because of the wine experience. It comes from advice of a old and well known grower here. When it comes to Cannabis I have much to learn but If my mentor and friends say dont do it, then you can bet your ass I wont be doing it.

Unfortunately I dont profit from the Winery business. I am not a partner. I do get lots of cases of wine in the mail and a recieved a nice check a few years ago. And we get to fly on the company jet occasionally to visit. Thats a experience drive to the private terminal park, go inside check-in have a drink and walk to the plane none of that TSA bullshit. Ive visited all the Vineyards and Wineries with the exception of the Element 28 winery


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 19, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> I think it's a European thing...


Well they do, do things a little different over there, lol.


----------



## medicaloutlaw (Oct 19, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Well they do, do things a little different over there, lol.
> 
> View attachment 5013057


Yeah I know about the French, Erik jetsets over there for competitions every year (and wins every year..its in the magazines) If they want to flush their grapes I hope they never stop. But dang they gotta do something about personal hygiene. I prefer my women as hairless as a grape skin.


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 19, 2021)

medicaloutlaw said:


> Yeah I know about the French, Erik jetsets over there for competitions every year (and wins every year..its in the magazines) If they want to flush their grapes I hope they never stop. But dang they gotta do something about personal hygiene. I prefer my women as hairless as a grape skin.


I guess that means you're not gonna like my post, .

Edit: OK you gave me something, lol.


----------



## medicaloutlaw (Oct 20, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> I guess that means you're not gonna like my post, .
> 
> Edit: OK you gave me something, lol.


lmao I gave you a WOW! thats gotta be better than just a "like" its a WOW! With armpits like that was too scared to give Love...Roflmao


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 20, 2021)

medicaloutlaw said:


> So NO THEY DO NOT FLUSH GRAPES/VINES AT VINEYARDS.


Please look up "irony".

Nothing is flushed in horticulture or farming anywhere. Except for Cannabis. Because Cannabis is... special? I guess.


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 20, 2021)

I flushed my 3 week flowering ones. Never got the pH down but a few tenths. Still at 5.7 for runoff after watering every day to runoff with pH balanced no nute water at 5 weeks.

But only after I flushed I started getting burnt tips. Just the very ends but on all new leaves big and small. I assume this was nute burn? And that the flushing allowed the plant to suck up more of the over saturated nutes. It is just now putting out the small leaves without the burnt tips. They go though a 1.5 gallon a day between the two of them to get to run off.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 20, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> Yeah FloraNova is an awesome 1 par


you don't like Lucas but you like FNB which is based on Lucas?? lmao.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 20, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> I'm pretty sure he understands quite well.
> 
> Lucas is a hack; it's not necessary. Let's move on.


Lucas doesn't work on balconies, bro.


----------



## J232 (Oct 20, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> Yeah FloraNova is an awesome 1 part used it works great. I preach that to my buddies, and mom, that just want to grow a couple plants on deck and don’t really want to dive into the details and nuances. And I have some friends killing it with FloraNova. And others with maxibloom albeit some use additives. So yeah 1,2,3 parts whatever but if you buy a 3 part nute line you are pretty arrogant, or dumb, to think you figured out a way to only use 2/3s.


I worry more about npk ratios then bottle count, but whatever.




ComputerSaysNo said:


> I'm pretty sure he understands quite well.
> 
> Lucas is a hack; it's not necessary. Let's move on.


I see you don’t understand as well


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 20, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> Lucas doesn't work on balconies, bro.


You have an ego problem, you should work on it. And off you go, back on my ignore list.



J232 said:


> I see you don’t understand as well


Witty.

I understand that for some of you a spreadsheet with decimal points in it makes you go stiff in awe and wonder.

That you don't understand something does _not_ mean that it makes sense, or is a meaningful concept. It only means the world is complex, too complex for any of us at _some_ point.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 20, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> You have an ego problem, you should work on it. And off you go, back on my ignore list.
> 
> 
> Witty.
> ...


I was gonna post a link to how the Lucas formula was developed decades ago (way before you started growing a few months ago on your rooftop) but you seem to be _blissful_ in your _ignorance_.


----------



## Billy the Mountain (Oct 20, 2021)

FNB and Lucas have very similar ratios: 

EC for both was ~ 1.2 using RO if I recall


FLORA NOVA BLOOM


LUCAS RATIO (1M:2B)


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 20, 2021)

Billy the Mountain said:


> FNB and Lucas have very similar ratios:
> 
> EC for both was ~ 1.2 using RO if I recall
> 
> ...


yep.
from what i've read, GH patented FNB because of the success of other growers using Lucas with their 3part. and it has humics in it.


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 20, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> you don't like Lucas but you like FNB which is based on Lucas?? lmao.


You’re confused the kiss method with Lucas. Back before many here were born I started using just the bloom A&B from Europonic. I still recommend getting both grow and bloom. FloraNova not based on Lucas. Edit: got tired of this post and didn’t complete the sentence. Peace 


rkymtnman said:


> I was gonna post a link to how the Lucas formula was developed decades ago (way before you started growing a few months ago on your rooftop) but you seem to be _blissful_ in your _ignorance_.


Hahaha. Prolly built my first room before you were born. Seriously tho if you know better than the scientists at GH then well good for you.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 20, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> You’re confused the kiss method with Lucas. Back before many here were born I started using just the bloom A&B from Europonic. I still recommend getting both grow and bloom. FloraNova not based on Lucas. GH didn’t developed a 1 part nute
> 
> Hahaha. Prolly built my first room before you were born. Seriously tho if you know better than the scientists at GH then well good for you.


so much wrong i don't even know where to start.

are you related to @ComputerSaysNo by chance? i'm trying to figure who's dumber. so far you're in the lead.


----------



## Billy the Mountain (Oct 20, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> You’re confused the kiss method with Lucas. Back before many here were born I started using just the bloom A&B from Europonic. I still recommend getting both grow and bloom. *FloraNova not based on Lucas. GH didn’t developed a 1 part nute*
> 
> Hahaha. Prolly built my first room before you were born. Seriously tho if you know better than the scientists at GH then well good for you.


Did you look at the charts above? They're virtually identical. Coincidence?

Flora Nova Bloom is indeed a one part nutrient.


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 20, 2021)

Billy the Mountain said:


> Did you look at the charts above? They're virtually identical. Coincidence?
> 
> Flora Nova Bloom is indeed a one part nutrient.


Didn’t complete the sentence and accidentally hit post.


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 20, 2021)

Billy the Mountain said:


> Did you look at the charts above? They're virtually identical. Coincidence?
> 
> Flora Nova Bloom is indeed a one part nutrient.


Yeah that’s my point if you want a one or 2 part just buy it. Tried it and Lucas not for me. Happy growing. Peace.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 21, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> Yeah that’s my point if you want a one or 2 part just buy it. Tried it and Lucas not for me. Happy growing. Peace.


still clueless i see. and you've been this way since i was a baby too???? lmao
Lucas is not about how many bottles you use. 
it's an NPKMg ratio that is able to be used from start to finish.

and you are right. GH doesn't make A 1 part nute. they make 4. floranova bloom, floranova grow, maxigro and maxibloom.

you're welcome.


----------



## bk78 (Oct 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> still clueless i see. and you've been this way since i was a baby too???? lmao
> Lucas is not about how many bottles you use.
> it's an NPKMg ratio that is able to be used from start to finish.
> 
> ...


pizzasaysno?


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> still clueless i see. and you've been this way since i was a baby too???? lmao
> Lucas is not about how many bottles you use.
> it's an NPKMg ratio that is able to be used from start to finish.
> 
> ...


As I noted that was a typo on my part in regards to GH making a 1 part and I’ve made many a references to maxibloom (and maxigrow) on this site. But yes, thanks for pointing out GHs other 1 part albeit dry. 
If the goal is a single ratio as you state what is your view onJacks 3-2-1? Seems more of a following for that method.
But perhaps we should ttake it back to the thread, which I believe was flushing before harvest.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 21, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> If the goal is a single ratio as you state what is your view onJacks 3-2-1


i use jack's RO 12-4-16 from start to finish. i don't believe you need a veg nute, a transition nute, a bloom nute and a finish nute like many others. just like i don't think you need a PK booster.


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i use jack's RO 12-4-16 from start to finish. i don't believe you need a veg nute, a transition nute, a bloom nute and a finish nute like many others. just like i don't think you need a PK booster.


They didn’t sell bloom boosters and all that snake oil when I got into growing and my yield/quality was great.

The line I ran for rockwool was Europonic and they did have different ratios for veg and flower. I attempted to mention, but never finished the thought really, that due to circumstances (going to grow store not trivial) I used the bloom (2 part-A&B) in veg. It worked so well I never bought the grow A&B after that.

So while I am still experimenting with the efficacy of increased P/K myself I think not using it may be some good advice. I’d recommend fulvic and kelp over P/K boosters.

But back to flushing. As I stated that too was never a thing a while back. I don’t go out of my to flush. About a week before harvest I don’t bother mixing up new nutes so if the reservoir is low I top it off w water. And if fir some reason I need or decide to chop a little early I don’t worry about if they were flushed or not.

Imagine going to the grow store and this was it for inorganic fertilizers to choose from lol.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 21, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> Imagine going to the grow store and this was it for inorganic fertilizers to choose from lol.


And for some reason the plants came out just the same as they do today.

With regards to flushing: it only works if the moon is correctly aligned, and Cypress Hill are playing in the background, but not too loud. Also, the electricity for the grow light needs to be CO2-enriched, very bad for climate but it gives you better buds so fuck the climate.


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 21, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> And for some reason the plants came out just the same as they do today.
> 
> With regards to flushing: it only works if the moon is correctly aligned, and Cypress Hill are playing in the background, but not too loud. Also, the electricity for the grow light needs to be CO2-enriched, very bad for climate but it gives you better buds so fuck the climate.


Mmmmmmmmmmm CO2 munch munch munch


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 21, 2021)

PizzaBob said:


> I’d recommend fulvic and kelp over P/K boosters.


that's what i use along with Si and beneficial bacteria.


----------



## Observe & Report (Oct 21, 2021)

medicaloutlaw said:


> My family traveled from Oklahoma back in the 70s to California bought an old run-down Winery (Far Niente) restored it and created an empire in Oakville California. They now own Far Niente, Nickel and Nickel, Dolce, EnRoute, Bella Union and Element 28 Wineries. They utilize biodynamic farming which is completely reliant on soil health.


Hey congrats on owning property now worth hundreds of millions. However, it's ironic that you're bringing up their Biodynamic processes because Biodynamic is Grade A Bullshit on the same order as flushing. Rudolph Steiner made it up, similar to how stoners sitting around thought "OMG I'm smoking nutes!!!"

That's one of the reasons why the scientific method is so effective, because it can remove the intense bias that can come from major success.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 21, 2021)

Observe & Report said:


> Biodynamic is Grade A Bullshit on the same order as flushing. Rudolph Steiner made it up


Biodynamic is AAAA bullshit. A bullshit quad.

They bury horns filled with poop in the ground and _literally_ dance for the plants. Bat shit crazy.

I don't buy any products if "biodynamic" is mentioned, even though it's probably good organic quality. It's also way overpriced.


----------



## Observe & Report (Oct 21, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> I don't buy any products if "biodynamic" is mentioned, even though it's probably good organic quality.


Organic is bullshit too, just slightly less obviously bullshit than Biodynamic.


----------



## PizzaBob (Oct 21, 2021)

Observe & Report said:


> Organic is bullshit too, just slightly less obviously bullshit than Biodynamic.


I agree in terms of fertilizer when growing indoors. However when outdoors using inorganic salts can be hard on the environment if over or improperly used.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 21, 2021)

Observe & Report said:


> Organic is bullshit too, just slightly less obviously bullshit than Biodynamic.


Now you have to qualify what you mean by "bullshit". I would agree that organically grown produce is not healthier or of higher quality than artificially fertilized one.

But you also have to consider how the mineral fertilizer is made. There is a negative impact on the environment there, that can possibly be avoided. And then, what @PizzaBob said.

Also, for me "bullshit" means that it's straight up nonsense that doesn't work. Like drinking crystal water and hoping it will cure your pancreatic cancer.

Growing organically quite obviously works really well, so it's not bullshit. They _do_ fertilize with bullshit, that's true.


----------



## Observe & Report (Oct 22, 2021)

ComputerSaysNo said:


> I don't buy any products if "biodynamic" is mentioned, *even though it's probably good organic quality*. It's also way overpriced.





ComputerSaysNo said:


> Now you have to qualify what you mean by "bullshit". *I would agree that organically grown produce is not* healthier or of *higher quality* than artificially fertilized one.


Unjustified attribution of improved Cannabis quality and taste with organic growing is rampant.


----------



## ComputerSaysNo (Oct 22, 2021)

Observe & Report said:


> Unjustified attribution of improved Cannabis quality and taste with organic growing is rampant.


I wasn't even talking about Cannabis in particular.

With regards to "organic" vs "non-organic" (artificial?), all that needs to happen is a blind test, or controlled experiment. Feed both ways, then have "connoisseurs" compare without knowing in advance what they're smoking.

Of course, these things are rarely done. Most growers much prefer to stick to their myths, and not have their world view shattered.

It's the same in the "audiophile" scene. Or in the wine tasting community.

However, you said "organic is bullshit". That's a far-ranging statement, and it will make people doubt your capacity for critical thinking.


----------



## Three Berries (Oct 29, 2021)

After all my flushing I then get some deficiencies. But I am getting run off in the 6.0 range now. Was using pH8 or so water with K. Now 7.0 with whatever a pinch of nutes.

I have some in Veg now too and one plant started to show some nute burn. FFHF and I have been giving it some Mg and limestone. It's sister plant of another mother is doing fine. <but it is in FFOF.


----------

