# RDWC Vert - Halide



## desol (Aug 8, 2020)

Hi. I'm just finishing up my first hydroponic run with my homebuilt RDWC system. The plants are about 5ft tall around the centre metal halide. The lamp is a Philips MP1000 at 3500k. I thought I'd post it in here cause it's basically a vert setup. Cheers.


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## Southside112 (Aug 8, 2020)

Cool setup.


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## Cvntcrusher (Aug 27, 2020)

Damn man that looks amazing


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## Nappertunity (Aug 27, 2020)

I no longer feel paranoid about how close my plants are.


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## Renfro (Aug 28, 2020)

That halide bulb wont last long being ran base up. Very, very few MH lamps are rated for anything but horizontal burn. If it's a BU/U rated bulb then you are good.


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## PissingNutes (Aug 29, 2020)

Renfro said:


> That halide bulb wont last long being ran base up. Very, very few MH lamps are rated for anything but horizontal burn. If it's a BU/U rated bulb then you are good.


80's tech?
"Installing MH lamps in a *base*-*up* position generally gives the best results in terms of minimizing color variation and maximizing lamp life"
Nowadays they have discovered digital ballasts.


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## Renfro (Aug 29, 2020)

PissingNutes said:


> 80's tech?
> "Installing MH lamps in a *base*-*up* position generally gives the best results in terms of minimizing color variation and maximizing lamp life"
> Nowadays they have discovered digital ballasts.


It's about the lamp itself, some arc tubes react poorly to being in the wrong orientation. There are MH lamps that are designed for base up operation, these can't be ran horizontal. Most HPS lamps are universal and don't care. It's MH lamps that are most often one or the other, very few if any universal MH lamps.


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## Renfro (Aug 29, 2020)

I know there is a Philips MP1000/BU model that is designed for base up operation. The straight MP1000 is horizontal.


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## PissingNutes (Aug 29, 2020)

Renfro said:


> It's about the lamp itself, some arc tubes react poorly to being in the wrong orientation. There are MH lamps that are designed for base up operation, these can't be ran horizontal. Most HPS lamps are universal and don't care. It's MH lamps that are most often one or the other, very few if any universal MH lamps.


From what I understand the versatile MH is supposed to be MH Conversion bulb or in his case SwitchStart. The old style is simply MH that won't strike on HPS ballast. I think that is correct.


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## Renfro (Aug 29, 2020)

PissingNutes said:


> From what I understand the versatile MH is supposed to be MH Conversion bulb or in his case SwitchStart. The old style is simply MH that won't strike on HPS ballast. I think that is correct.


Depends on the ballast. Most modern digital style ballasts will run HPS or MH with no need for a conversion lamp.

With old school magnetic ballasts the HPS lamp requires an ignitor, the MH lamp does not otherwise the ballast is the same and some have a switch that cuts out the ignitor for MH.


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## Kassiopeija (Aug 29, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I know there is a Philips MP1000/BU model that is designed for base up operation. The straight MP1000 is horizontal.


isn't it possible to recognize if it's a vertical or horizontal lamp by the looks of the interior? what exactly is the difference there? I think the OP has the BU


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## Renfro (Aug 29, 2020)

Kassiopeija said:


> isn't it possible to recognize if it's a vertical or horizontal lamp by the looks of the interior? what exactly is the difference there? I think the OP has the BU


It's the design of the arc tube, not exactly sure what the manufacturing difference is, I've never compared the two. If his lamp has lasted more than a few days in the base up position then it is a base up lamp. I know from experience. I had ordered some 400w lights that came with both HPS and MH lamps. I use these on the ends of my rows, batwing hung vertically. The HPS lamps ran fine with the base up but I wasn't thinking when I stuck the MH lamps in for ripening. One lamp peached off after just a few hours, another went by the wayside the next day, thats when I remembered that MH lamps are rarely universal and that the MH lamps I had were horizontal type (most common).


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## PissingNutes (Aug 29, 2020)

The technology has evolved on MH HPS ballasts and lamps and they still outgrow LEDs by far but LEDs are cheaper and they give them away these days so not much on the uses of MH bulbs.


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## Renfro (Aug 29, 2020)

PissingNutes said:


> The technology has evolved on MH HPS ballasts and lamps and they still outgrow LEDs by far but LEDs are cheaper and they give them away these days.


I can't agree with anything you said there.

Quality LED is anything but cheap. The crap they sell cheap is not the same as the good LED. I have seen what can be done with high quality LED lighting and it's amazing. Thing is you have to dial your temps up under LED due to the lack of infrared. With a good LED light and properly tuned environment you can achieve the same yields per sqft as HPS and the quality of the flower is excellent. 30 years with HPS under my belt and I was a hard one for LED to win over. Only recently in the last few years has LED made it to a level that I can say what I am saying. I have seen it in my own grows and in others. Please know that I am not talking about blurples and the like. I am talking about a quality LED like Timber, HLG, Gavita...


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## PissingNutes (Aug 29, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I can't agree with anything you said there.
> 
> Quality LED is anything but cheap. The crap they sell cheap is not the same as the good LED. I have seen what can be done with high quality LED lighting and it's amazing. Thing is you have to dial your temps up under LED due to the lack of infrared. With a good LED light and properly tuned environment you can achieve the same yields per sqft as HPS and the quality of the flower is excellent. 30 years with HPS under my belt and I was a hard one for LED to win over. Only recently in the last few years has LED made it to a level that I can say what I am saying. I have seen it in my own grows and in others. Please know that I am not talking about blurples and the like. I am talking about a quality LED like Timber, HLG, Gavita...


I don't see paying an 1000$ for someone to put together 50$ of LEDs. Build your own but I'm happy using 600 watts or less for 80 watts or more per square feet with hoods and digital ballasts.


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## PissingNutes (Aug 29, 2020)

PissingNutes said:


> I don't see paying an 1000$ for someone to put together 50$ of LEDs. Build your own but I'm happy using 600 watts or less for 80 watts or more per square feet with hoods and digital ballasts.


You can't even come close with LEDs


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## Renfro (Aug 29, 2020)

PissingNutes said:


> for 80 watts or more per square feet with hoods and digital ballasts.


holy shit what a waste of wattage. beyond 60 watts per sqft with HPS you don't gain anything even with CO2.


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## Renfro (Aug 29, 2020)

PissingNutes said:


> You can't even come close with LEDs


Wrong. Just plain wrong. Speak for yourself.



PissingNutes said:


> I don't see paying an 1000$ for someone to put together 50$ of LEDs.


LM301B chips aren't cheap like the garbage you speak of.


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## PissingNutes (Aug 29, 2020)

Didn't say garbage. LEDs are for seedling  And MH for flower is a thing.


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## Kassiopeija (Aug 29, 2020)

None of my MHs have this electric cord spindle around the small bulb so is this something used to help ignition - like heating up the interior gas? And on the horizontal ones the start up is helped by the addition of another metal or whatever and this isn't this degradading the bulb everytime? See the small one has been run vertically/free:

could it be that the vertical corrossion destroys the anode/kathode?


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## Renfro (Aug 29, 2020)

It has to do with the shape of the arc inside the arc tube. They are designed for the arc to be in one direction and the arc tube orientation is really whats important. They can design an arc tube to work well with gravity working from a given angle. We start moving the lamp around or running it at an angle thats not intended and we disrupt the arc, at best it runs but the output is not optimal.


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## mr4tune (Dec 28, 2020)

PissingNutes said:


> You can't even come close with LEDs


You have obviously never used a quality panel before. Or even bothered to look into what guys are pulling with them nowadays at half the watts and heat. But you do you bro. Your comment is... "80's tech" as you called it in post #6.


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