# **ULTIMATE LED TEST** *GLH Spectra 290* VS *Blackstar 500* VS *Hydro Grow LED 336X*



## WeJuana (Oct 7, 2011)

Setup:

3 4x4x7 Lighthouse tents, each running its own 6" inline

Medium: FFOF soil
Pot: Smart Pots
Nutrients: Dyna-Gro
Strain: LA Confidential
Tents: Lighthouse Hydro
Fans: Lighthouse Hydro

*LIGHTS **UPDATED**
Lighthouse Blackstar 500
VS
Grow Led Hydro Spectra 500 (used to be 300)
VS
Hydro Grow LED Penetrator 336X

Lights will remain stationary 55" above the floor during the entire grow.
Feed will be mixed in a 5 gallon container to ensure each tent receives equivalent nutrients.
Lights will be on electronic timer to ensure all tents receive fair amounts of light.
Clones will be cut from the same mother to ensure uniform genetics.

*Clones are in cloning.. count down til the grow*




Blackstar LED (Lighthouse)






GLH LED (Grow Led Hydro) 






Penetrator X (Hydro Grow LED)


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## puffenuff (Oct 7, 2011)

Subb'd for this comparison...need more tests done like this for leds. Have you used any of these leds before doing this test or its it the first run for all three?


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## batf1nk (Oct 7, 2011)

Also subbed... watching with interest...


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## Psytranceorgy (Oct 7, 2011)

subbed and watching too! +rep for doing the comparison


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## WeJuana (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks for joining! Participation is encouraged; ask any questions or make relevant comments at any time!

Please note the lights being tested have been updated on the thread, I am unable to edit the title or I would.

**Clone Update**
Looking VERY good and healthy!

This is my first run using the EZ-Clone 30 and it seems like it literally is as easy as setting it up, letting it run, and hopefully in a few more days I will have nice rooted clones!
All the clones are very looking happy and spunky with little to no droop on the leaves/stock.


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## dmx0111 (Oct 8, 2011)

wooohooo i pull up a chair for this led test.. WeJuana is the 336x led the 1w or the 3w version... good luck with this one man cheers.


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## WeJuana (Oct 8, 2011)

This is the 336x 1w version, both other lights are using 3w diodes which is a good difference to note.

Later today I'll be updating with actual wattage draw as well as a review of the other grow equipment and setup.


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## fartman (Oct 8, 2011)

subd very interesting


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## Scrogreen (Oct 8, 2011)

Also Subd here! Great job on putting the lights in all different tents. I have been looking at getting the GLH 500 or the Penetrator so Im here with you all the way! Have you grown with led's before? I havent read but have read that you have to set up your enviroment a little different. Also have you grown this strain under HID's? Just wondering about how well the weight of the led's will compare to the HID if you have something to compare 2. Great job so far!!!


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## WeJuana (Oct 8, 2011)

@puffnpass / Scrogreen: 

I have had some experience with LED's before with Blackstar, GLH and a few different Ebay UFOs. If there is one thing I've learned about LED lights, its NO EBAY UFOS! 

I've not yet had the chance to use HID lighting in a grow.. I have been dedicated to first finding the LED lights @ the end of the tunnel


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## WeJuana (Oct 8, 2011)

I wanted to give a short review of the equipment I am using, excluding the lights.

On a 5 Star Scale:

EZ-Clone 30: 4/5

I really like this thing! Its a lot better than a clone dome and there has been little to no wilting of the clones since I put them in there.

I rated a 4 star because the lid does not seat 100% and water will accumulate and a little will jump out ever once in a while.


Tents (Lighthouse Hydro 4x4x7): 5/5

These are my first tents, but I do have to say they were extremely easy to set up, and would have been a 1 man job aside from needing a second person to help lift the mylar up and over the frame. They have ports and pockets with removable mylar patches and came with a secondary mylar liner for the bottom. 

I rated 5 star because if you consider the price, it's a steal of a deal.


Fans (Lighthouse Hydro 6" inline): 5/5

Fan-tastic. 

I rated 5 star because they move air like nobodies business and haven't given any issues or reasons to complain at all.


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## BlazedMonkey (Oct 8, 2011)

Very interested normally i would favor GLH from the grows ive seen but since they are 1w and others are 3w and at a distance of 55.... 

Should be cool to watch  thanks


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## hoss12781 (Oct 8, 2011)

Subbed - Ecstatic you've posted this experiment as I'm sure it will be incredibly interesting to watch. *Way to set up a real scientific study brother.* This board need more of this. 

My money is on the GLH. That's the only brand of the three I've personally owned.


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## WeJuana (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks hoss I appreciate it! Glad to have you following along.

What model did you have?


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## WeJuana (Oct 9, 2011)

Blackstar: 301 watts






Grow Hydro LED: 334 watts






Grow LED Hydro: 360 watts





​


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## fartman (Oct 9, 2011)

is that glh a 500


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## hoss12781 (Oct 9, 2011)

I had the 100w spectra UFO, actually just sold it along with my other ufos to my little sis. Running all Pro-Grows from Hydro Hut right now. Really liked the GLH it was a top shelf light, just love the switchable spectrum feature on the PG and already had 3 of those. Sold to add another. Wanted to have the whole room switchable on demand. Again, props on the study man. Very interesting.


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## WeJuana (Oct 9, 2011)

@hoss - Right on! I want to look into those PG's.. maybe something to consider for the next test. I appreciate it again and am glad to have you along for the experiment.




fartman said:


> is that glh a 500


I believe this may be what GLH are now referring to as the 500. I have an email into the owner and am expecting one back by Monday.

It is a little confusing from the text they have on their website because they go back and fourth between calling it a 300 and 500: 

"The new website is under construction. *The Spectra LED 300 is now the Spectra LED 500w new for 2011. All specs are the same including the use of 12 true wavelengths and 90 degree lens. The new Spectra LED 500w uses 252 high powered 3w chips and draws 500w of power.* Ive upgraded the heat sink and drivers. If you have any further questions please e-mail [email protected]wledhydro.com or use the 'contact us' page.

*The Spectra-LED 300 (Actual Power Draw is 360 Watts)* Light System with a 4.5' x 4.5' coverage area and 3' x 2.5' core saturation. Further, it's 80% more energy-efficient than Metal Halide or HPS lamps. This system, with its unique 12+ wavelength lighting, 3 watt/3 chip LED's at 90 degree viewing angle, they emit precise illumination that your plants are readily able to absorb. Eliminated stretching and tight inter-node spacing represent just a couple of the benefits of this system."


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## fartman (Oct 9, 2011)

cus glh says theirs e actual draw but im starting to doubt that guy


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## WeJuana (Oct 9, 2011)

I will definitely let you know what their response says as far as the model of this light, and I will be sure to clarify if their new light numbers are actual draw.


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## Scrogreen (Oct 9, 2011)

nice job on the wattage draw!


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## WeJuana (Oct 9, 2011)

Thank you! 

I was curious myself what they would be and I am glad they are all within such a close proximity of draw, seeing as there is no "standard" of wattage draw across the LED lighting companies' models.


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## WeJuana (Oct 9, 2011)

I'ts been 3 days since the clones went into the EZ Cloner so I checked two of the clones and didn't see any real root growth. I added a little KLN to the water and I am sure that should help speed things up.

**Anyone had experiences with an EZ Cloner before? 

I followed the directions of the rooting compound given with the system, which simply said dip and insert in clone machine.

I'm curious to hear if others used as a different method and what that might be.. or how long the process took for you.


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## Scrogreen (Oct 9, 2011)

I have never cloned myself. Just buy the rooted clones. Good luck!


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## WeJuana (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks. I put the KLN in and like 6-8 hours later checked and saw little white spots forming so I believe the rooting is starting


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## Scrogreen (Oct 9, 2011)

Oh I forgot to ask you if you have used Dyna-gro b4? I have been thinking about changing over to them. All I hear is good things and read a good grow journal on it. Witch products do you use?


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## Scrogreen (Oct 9, 2011)

Also how many plants are you putting under each light? Do you have a guess on how will win this led shoot out? I will give my prediction after I hear how many plants and how long you plan to veg for. Also are you planing on just letting them grow tall? Top? FIM?


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## WeJuana (Oct 9, 2011)

Scrogreen said:


> Oh I forgot to ask you if you have used Dyna-gro b4? I have been thinking about changing over to them. All I hear is good things and read a good grow journal on it. Witch products do you use?
> 
> Also how many plants are you putting under each light? Do you have a guess on how will win this led shoot out? I will give my prediction after I hear how many plants and how long you plan to veg for. Also are you planing on just letting them grow tall? Top? FIM?


I was using Advanced Nutrients, and then I tried Dyna-Gro and I was hooked. I like it because its a one part solution and its real affordable!

I use the whole line, Dyna-Gro Pro-Foliage, Bloom, Pro-Tekt, Pro-Mag, and now KLN on the clones.

The LED shootout wont necessarily have a winner per say.. as I am not here to act as a judge on the companies or viewers behalf. I just want to provide factual data as far as yield etc, however I will give a smoke report and inform on whether there is any noticeable difference in taste or quality.

Depending on how the grow and thread go, I may turn this into a perpetual grow, entering new clones into each tent cut from the same mother at the same time.

To begin the test, once the clones are rooted, there will be 2 in each tent. 

I will be letting the plants grow naturally, no topping, fimming, etc. The most I will be doing is plucking dead/dying leaves as I normally would on my grow, because yellow spreads yellow.


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## trx250x7 (Oct 9, 2011)

Can you also post the price of the units? it looks like I could get 3 of the black star 500 or Spectra 500''s for the price of one Penetrator 336X. Not sure if i am correct though


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## WeJuana (Oct 9, 2011)

Blackstar 500: $539.95
Spectra 500: $1,299.99
Penetrator 336X: $1,599.00


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## trx250x7 (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks! I am looking to switch over to LED soon, I will be following very close! thank you for posting


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## Scrogreen (Oct 9, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I was using Advanced Nutrients, and then I tried Dyna-Gro and I was hooked. I like it because its a one part solution and its real affordable!
> 
> I use the whole line, Dyna-Gro Pro-Foliage, Bloom, Pro-Tekt, Pro-Mag, and now KLN on the clones.
> 
> ...


Well I will be looking for the one with the most weight but I guess if the the smoke is better in another I will be rethinking what to get. Letting them grow naturally will really help in seeing how close the bud sites stay together. I cant wait to see em in there tents!


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## music64 (Oct 9, 2011)

could you post the sites where you got them from, please and thank you.


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## WeJuana (Oct 9, 2011)

music64 said:


> could you post the sites where you got them from, please and thank you.


Blackstar 500> www.GothamHydroponics.com
GLH Spectra 500 > www.GrowLEDHydro.com
Penetrator 336X > www.HydroGrowLED.com


@Scrogreen - I'm with you! If price isn't an option, I would be looking for the light with the best balance of quality and yield.

I am thinking another 2 or 3 days and they should be rooted enough to put in the tents.


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## WeJuana (Oct 10, 2011)

All the clones have little white spots on the stems below the sleeve, which is the starting of the roots.

I will try to post up some pics later.. its pretty interesting to be able to see the rooting process from start to finish, instead of waiting over a week before seeing root tips poking out of rockwool cubes (which I used prior to getting this easy clone machine).


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## puffenuff (Oct 10, 2011)

How many clones are going to be in each tent? and how long will they have been vegged for? and if you have how tall they are that would be some good info to include too.


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## sen.c (Oct 10, 2011)

Subbed, but from the looks of the picture you need to move you light alot closer to the canopy like within 6".

Wish you would have had a ProSource in the mix.


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## curly604 (Oct 10, 2011)

i thin thats a common misconception with leds , some work best at 48" away some at 36" i thought it was a little high too but im stoaked to see how this goes .....subbed as well


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## WeJuana (Oct 10, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> How many clones are going to be in each tent? and how long will they have been vegged for? and if you have how tall they are that would be some good info to include too.


I went into this a little bit on the last page, but depending on how the grow and thread go, I may turn this into a perpetual grow, entering new clones into each tent cut from the same mother at the same time. This also ensures a more fair experiment by having more than one trial.

To begin the test, once the clones are rooted, there will be 2 in each tent. I will be vegging for 2-3 weeks depending on growth rate, because I am aiming to keep all the lights @ 55"

Regarding the comments as far as light distance, I have 2 240s running. If I was only using one, I personally would ideally keep it about 24" off the canopy, since I have two, I can get away with more height. These things use 3w bulbs and I made the mistake of putting it too close (about 12" from canopy) to the clones last time and the leaves started bleaching.


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## puffenuff (Oct 10, 2011)

my bad i missed it on the previous page. so what made you go with the 1w penetrator over the 3w?


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## WeJuana (Oct 10, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> my bad i missed it on the previous page. so what made you go with the 1w penetrator over the 3w?


Not a problem at all! I don't expect everyone to read everything  I usually skim and look at pictures myself unless im real into the grow lol. To answer your question I would have to say simply wattage draw and trying to keep the lights evenly matched. The 336x is rated to grow in a 4x4 area; the 1w version draws 340w while the 3w draws an estimated 520w.

After I see how these lights run, I may try looking into the Blackstar 900 and I believe GLH is working on a new model which will draw around the 500w mark as well.. that would really be the ultimate test of the top of the lines. Bright side to this test is there are still lights one could purchase that are upgrades of the lights they currently see running.


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## kush groove (Oct 10, 2011)

Good luck brother......i own two blackstars that im happy with so this grow should be interesting......that penetrator looks like a beast


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 10, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Blackstar 500: $539.95
> Spectra 500: $1,299.99
> Penetrator 336X: $1,599.00


nice test ill be around watching but IMO the blackstar has already won sheerly on this post right here, the GLH may yield a slight bit more but not much as other studies have shown but when dealing with say a 240 w blackstar versus a 190w GLH its the GLH panel you want, now with this test wat i see is a difference of something like 30 watts or so on the panels on the average and thats not enough to get me spending 1300 for an LED when i can get 2 panels that give me MORE area of light that draw BARELY less power. I promise you for the price 2 blackstar 500's is going to blow the spectra and the penetrator out of the water.

As a single panel the blackstar is going to lose out to the GLH panel for sure though, I own blackstars and kessils, very happy with both of them. Would like to run some GLH stuff but at the prices shown NOT WORTH IT. Im wanting around 600watts of draw from my LED panels now and 2 500's will make me a happy camper without having to spend 2500 bucks to get it.

subbed to this bad boy.


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## WeJuana (Oct 10, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> nice test ill be around watching but IMO the blackstar has already won sheerly on this post right here, the GLH may yield a slight bit more but not much as other studies have shown but when dealing with say a 240 w blackstar versus a 190w GLH its the GLH panel you want, now with this test wat i see is a difference of something like 30 watts or so on the panels on the average and thats not enough to get me spending 1300 for an LED when i can get 2 panels that give me MORE area of light that draw BARELY less power. I promise you for the price 2 blackstar 500's is going to blow the spectra and the penetrator out of the water.
> 
> As a single panel the blackstar is going to lose out to the GLH panel for sure though, I own blackstars and kessils, very happy with both of them. Would like to run some GLH stuff but at the prices shown NOT WORTH IT. Im wanting around 600watts of draw from my LED panels now and 2 500's will make me a happy camper without having to spend 2500 bucks to get it.
> 
> subbed to this bad boy.



As I was saying prior though I am not here to be a judge on behalf of anybody of the companies, so I will not be declaring a winner at any point, merely providing facts and allowing people to make a more informed decision before their purchases. I want to provide nothing but factual data.

*When I yield, I will try to equate the final yield in a form of grams per watts for each individual light, and then cost per gram based on light cost.

The price breakdown paid for lights is as follows:
Blackstar - ($540/301watts) $1.80 per watt
GLH - ($1300/360watts) $3.61 per watt
Hydro Grow LED - ($1600/341watts) $4.69 per watt*


@kushgroove - The Penetrator X is definitely a neat looking light! I am so anxious to see how these lights perform in comparison to each other!


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 10, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> As I was saying prior though I am not here to be a judge on behalf of anybody of the companies, so I will not be declaring a winner at any point, merely providing facts and allowing people to make a more informed decision before their purchases. I want to provide nothing but factual data.
> 
> *When I yield, I will try to equate the final yield in a form of grams per watts for each individual light, and then cost per gram based on light cost.
> 
> ...


I know and im callin the results of this test right now based on current knowledge and tests the only one throwin me for a loop is the penetrator, the Blackstar is ALMOST as good as that GLH, but for the price its fuckin a million times better. Winner in and of itself. Price shows it as well as wattage draw since they are all relatively equal, blackstars spectrum is proven. That being said i very much look forward to this side by side. Facts will prove what i said above and im hopin that penetrator suprises me  like with results that make it worth 1500 bucks lol. Not a whole lot of differences in the results you will see between that GLH and blackstar, like i said the GLH is gonna yield a slight bit more quality differences are negligable if any. Those statements are from personal experience of running them and watching others run them in person not online. Like i said im curious about the penetrator its the only one i havent seen run.


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## WeJuana (Oct 10, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I know and im callin the results of this test right now based on current knowledge and tests the only one throwin me for a loop is the penetrator, the Blackstar is ALMOST as good as that GLH, but for the price its fuckin a million times better.


I understand where your coming from completely. There is a pretty significant difference between the price of the Blackstar and the other 2 units and I know for a fact they produce some danky final product.

I hope what this really thread really does is opens a few peoples eyes to the fact LED growing can be worth the investment, rather than listening to someone's recycled garbage, down-talking a technology they have had little to no experience with themselves.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 10, 2011)

well said and thanks for droppin the coin to do this this is a really nice comparison i like how you've worked the variables out of it with identical tents and fans and whatnot. Strains as well. should help take the wind out of teh sails of the disbelievers. I honestly think the main problem is people try to compare way too low of a a wattage of light to a HPS. In my experience it falls somewhere between 1/2-2/3 the wattage draw of an HPS to equal what you would get off of said HPS. When you compare watt for watt actual draw HPS to LED there just isnt a comparison anymore the LED's just decimate. Unfortunately as you shown earlier with the prices the blackstar is really the only one anywhere near the affordable range and its still about a grand to get 2 of em to equal 600 watt draw, price is comn down though, and honestly the light pays for itself just like any other, but im about super quality not quanity. Not only that LED's are so much safer for us, no more fires in the grow room. Too many advantages to ignore. The more that we buy the further the price will come down. Im on the fence about going back because i need some pretty large yields now to support family, and the upfront cost is gettin me a bit, so i may do a few quick HPS runs for some $ to stack up and switch back again. The only thing holding me back from goin large scale with LED is cost right now. If i did go large scale though I would end up going with kessils, they are so modular its ridiculous. So much fun stuff out there.

Going to be watching this closely +rep man


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## cannawizard (Oct 10, 2011)

**nice thread.. im in  --subd


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## thethcfarm3r (Oct 10, 2011)

Finally I real Test, THANK YOU A LOT ! You have no idea how much I want to see this, I'm about to spent 1k in one of those penetrator 3w n you will be my justification to my wife, yes sir ! I'm super subbed


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## 711grower (Oct 10, 2011)

muchos gracias for the comparison. while this is wejuanas thread i think its safe to say that if you are a led hater please dont come here bragging about how you got 5 pounds from your 600 watt hps and that leds are good for growing nothing more then wheat grass. this thread is starting out real positive. lets keep it that way. wejuana just threw out some major bread on this grow. give this thread the respect it deserves. who knows maybe the results of this test will make doubters into believers....feels like a cage match is going to happen with some real good contenders. if you dont mind me asking how long have you been growing and what is your experience level growing with leds ? thanks once again


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## WeJuana (Oct 11, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the support and thanks! I'm glad there are some of you out there who are interested, that I can share this with.

@711grower - I would put myself somewhere between novice and advanced as far as growing experience, and as far as LED experience I have had 2 harvests under my belt.


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 11, 2011)

Subscribed !!!...thanks for doing this..


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## WeJuana (Oct 11, 2011)

Thanks for joining in and glad to have you!


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## FMCCNate (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm excited to see this comparison swell and like said above unless the other 2 lights double the yeild of the blackstar I think the blackstar is already the winner.


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## WeJuana (Oct 11, 2011)

Glad to have you here Nate and I appreciate your input!

I can't wait for these damn clones to get out of the cloner and into the tents to really make this thing interesting!!


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## Scrogreen (Oct 11, 2011)

Nor can we Juana......nor can we. lol


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## WeJuana (Oct 11, 2011)

*I have a question for the crowd and I want your opinions!*

After some research, I realized it will likely be another 5-9 days before the clones are ready to pot out of the clone machine.

I have 3 LA Con mothers which are the exact same age, similar size, and have had the exact same nutes up to this point which are ready for flower.

My question is: 

*Do yall want to wait for the clones and see each individual LED veg their respective clone for a few weeks and then flower? 
Or 
Would you rather me throw one of each of these mothers in and start flower with the 3 comparison lights now, and I will veg all the clones in a different tent all under the same light, keeping the experiment controlled.. and we will make it a perpetual grow with multiple trials?*


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 11, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> *I have a question for the crowd and I want your opinions!*
> 
> After some research, I realized it will likely be another 5-9 days before the clones are ready to pot out of the clone machine.
> 
> ...


Put those bitches in NOW........ha i'm an impatient SOB...


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## WeJuana (Oct 11, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Put those bitches in NOW........ha i'm an impatient SOB...


My feelings exactly.. I think even an LED basher would admit that an LED can veg a plant lol.. I want to start getting some budding in motion! 

Any objections speak soon or its 12-12 for the mums!!


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## ejbarraza (Oct 11, 2011)

i'm subbing for this LED challenge i own a backstar 240 W


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## Endur0xX (Oct 11, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Subscribed !!!...thanks for doing this..


 one more!!!


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## WeJuana (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm going to get this thing rolling. All 3 of these moms came from the same mother plant, cut at the same time, fed with the same nutes, under the same light to date, and are really similar in size to make it even better.

I took an extra cutting which is in the cloner, so instead of transplanting these form their 3 gallon pots to larger, I will just start over with the clone and turn it into another mother 

This first run of flowering may also show a difference in yield between pots, as I am using 5 and 7 gallon smart pots for the comparison grow, and these are in 3 gallon standard plastic pots.

This means all vegging will be done under the same light in a different tent before the plants are entered into their respectable LED flower tents.

Going to 12-12 on Friday in their own tents, flushing hard until then.


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## kevin murphy (Oct 12, 2011)

very nice thread im subbed....


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## Scrogreen (Oct 12, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I'm going to get this thing rolling. All 3 of these moms came from the same mother plant, cut at the same time, fed with the same nutes, under the same light to date, and are really similar in size to make it even better.​
> I took an extra cutting which is in the cloner, so instead of transplanting these form their 3 gallon pots to larger, I will just start over with the clone and turn it into another mother
> 
> This first run of flowering may also show a difference in yield between pots, as I am using 5 and 7 gallon smart pots for the comparison grow, and these are in 3 gallon standard plastic pots.
> ...


I agree. We all know led's can veg. Get right to the test with flowering. I like the way you think!!! Also what light will you be using to veg the plants?


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## WeJuana (Oct 12, 2011)

Scrogreen said:


> I agree. We all know led's can veg. Get right to the test with flowering. I like the way you think!!! Also what light will you be using to veg the plants?


I'll be using Blackstar LED's to veg, since I already have spares laying around.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 12, 2011)

i love the blackstar spectrum such a nice lookin color lol


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 12, 2011)

I have 2 Blackstars from 2011 - a 100W and a 180W going right now.

Very anxious to see the comparisons!

Subbed, +REP!


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## davoswavos (Oct 12, 2011)

This should be a great grow but I strongly suggest going with optimum light height for each light because they will all be different I know with the blackstar during flower you can work your way down to about 8 inches with most strains without bleaching and you will be getting the most out of the light at 55" the spectrum will be great but the intensity not so good. This is just my opinion and I'm not trying to nock your grow just trying to help.


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## WeJuana (Oct 12, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> This should be a great grow but I strongly suggest going with optimum light height for each light because they will all be different I know with the blackstar during flower you can work your way down to about 8 inches with most strains without bleaching and you will be getting the most out of the light at 55" the spectrum will be great but the intensity not so good. This is just my opinion and I'm not trying to nock your grow just trying to help.


Hey davos! I don't at all take that as a knock to the grow, I actually really appreciate your feedback. The reason I decided to keep them all one height (55") is because I want this to be a perpetual grow, meaning I will need the lights raised for the larger plants, such as the mothers I am about to enter in the tent.

If the results start to seem like they are adversely effected by the height of the light, I will compensate and adjust the grow by setting the lights at optimum levels.

Thanks so much again for the input, don't hesitate to add your comments if you have them.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 12, 2011)

Spectrum>intensity all DAY, thats what LED's are all about man. They make some intense LED's like really intense but spectrum is always going to win over intesity, thats why with a 200 watt draw panel with a good spectrum you can generally pull equal to a 400 watt hps. Im runnin 156 watts right now and pulling just a few ounces less than when i was on a 400w hps. 



davoswavos said:


> This should be a great grow but I strongly suggest going with optimum light height for each light because they will all be different I know with the blackstar during flower you can work your way down to about 8 inches with most strains without bleaching and you will be getting the most out of the light at 55" the spectrum will be great but the intensity not so good. This is just my opinion and I'm not trying to nock your grow just trying to help.


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## davoswavos (Oct 12, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Spectrum>intensity all DAY, thats what LED's are all about man. They make some intense LED's like really intense but spectrum is always going to win over intesity, thats why with a 200 watt draw panel with a good spectrum you can generally pull equal to a 400 watt hps. Im runnin 156 watts right now and pulling just a few ounces less than when i was on a 400w hps.


I agree with you that spectrum is important but you need to find a good balance to not sacrifice yield the only lights I know of that need to be over 4' high are the glh v1's and v2's and these lights have been updated because they were too intense and not very user friendly. they are now doing it more like the blackstars and running the 3w diods at like half power so you can have them closer.


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## PrezDickie (Oct 12, 2011)

subscribed! working up to my first grow, and just to admit any bias i've got a blackstar 180w just because budget + quaility fit my needs. love that your approaching this from a facts only perspective. the more info we can provide the growing community about LED the better. what kind of info about the mother plants will you provide before putting them into their 3 individual test tents? weight of each before flower? height? number of prospective bud sites? just curious, the more data sets about pre and post flowering the more indepth the comparison will be  thanks for all the work you put into this, i'll be following with high interest!


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## WeJuana (Oct 12, 2011)

@davos - Keep in mind the 55" height is distance from the floor. The mothers I enter into the comparison tents will put the lights 24" from the canopy with their current size, and that's before stretch.

@Prez - Welcome! I like and respect your honesty haha. I dont have a scale large enough to weigh the plants, but what I will try to do is give a video update of the mothers when the lights kick on, so yall can get a feel for how similar they are in size. 

*What I am going to do to offset the minute difference in size is put the largest looking plant with the least wattage light, middle with middle, and smallest with the most wattage light.*

Height is estimated 30-31".. but I will give an updated measurement when lights kick on.


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## PuffPuffPassed (Oct 12, 2011)

sub'd +rep! cool ass grow man!!


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 12, 2011)

as a matter of fact the gen 1s you could have closer its only the gen 2's that have the issue with needing mass height and its about 24 inches ideally.



davoswavos said:


> I agree with you that spectrum is important but you need to find a good balance to not sacrifice yield the only lights I know of that need to be over 4' high are the glh v1's and v2's and these lights have been updated because they were too intense and not very user friendly. they are now doing it more like the blackstars and running the 3w diods at like half power so you can have them closer.


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 12, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I'm going to get this thing rolling. All 3 of these moms came from the same mother plant, cut at the same time, fed with the same nutes, under the same light to date, and are really similar in size to make it even better.
> 
> I took an extra cutting which is in the cloner, so instead of transplanting these form their 3 gallon pots to larger, I will just start over with the clone and turn it into another mother
> 
> ...


So you are NOT transplanting the moms to larger pots??????did i read this correctly?


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## WeJuana (Oct 12, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> So you are NOT transplanting the moms to larger pots??????did i read this correctly?


Correct. All 3 of these were taken from the same mother, so they are all of the same genes. Instead of transplanting the 3 into bigger pots, I'm just going to flower them.
I took a clone which will just be put into a bigger pot when it's ready, and will be new my LA Con mom.

The clones coming up out of the clone machine are the same LA Con strain, so now we get to see if the yield will be effected with 3 gallon plastic pots vs 5/7 gallon smart pots in addition to comparing the lights.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 12, 2011)

oh it shall be affected sir, this i promise u, roots = fruits, for example i just had a jilly bean that looked like a fuckin elephant turd in a party cup, a frosty danky elephant turd lol smelled so kill, chopped it a lil late for extra amber as it gives it a bit more body stone on top of the giddy social high it has, and the thing was all fluff and leaf, reason being is lack of root space, it was healthy as can be and blasted in trichomes but just so leafy and undense and i've ran this same cut outside in large pots no problem as well as inside hydro and soil no problem so its a pretty proven fact a smaller pot size is gonna yield less. There are ways to increase but your keepin yourself on a pretty strict regiment and i like it.  good for research. Im liking the small variables you've thrown in now keep up the good work man.


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## WeJuana (Oct 12, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> oh it shall be affected sir, this i promise u, roots = fruits, for example i just had a jilly bean that looked like a fuckin elephant turd in a party cup, a frosty danky elephant turd lol smelled so kill, chopped it a lil late for extra amber as it gives it a bit more body stone on top of the giddy social high it has, and the thing was all fluff and leaf, reason being is lack of root space, it was healthy as can be and blasted in trichomes but just so leafy and undense and i've ran this same cut outside in large pots no problem as well as inside hydro and soil no problem so its a pretty proven fact a smaller pot size is gonna yield less. There are ways to increase but your keepin yourself on a pretty strict regiment and i like it.  good for research. Im liking the small variables you've thrown in now keep up the good work man.


I agree, I think pot size will matter.. I'm just wondering to what point.

So first harvest will be the 3 gal, and then once these clones are done, I will be putting 2 clones per tent using smart pots, one in a 5 gallon and one in a 7 gallon, and we will see what the difference is there as well.


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## anotherdaymusic (Oct 13, 2011)

wish you would have gotten an advanced led diamond series... its what i have coming in the mail haha.


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## Heretic (Oct 13, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Blackstar 500: $539.95
> Spectra 500: $1,299.99
> Penetrator 336X: $1,599.00





Kaptain Kron said:


> nice test ill be around watching but IMO the blackstar has already won sheerly on this post right here, the GLH may yield a slight bit more but not much as other studies have shown but when dealing with say a 240 w blackstar versus a 190w GLH its the GLH panel you want, now with this test wat i see is a difference of something like 30 watts or so on the panels on the average and thats not enough to get me spending 1300 for an LED when i can get 2 panels that give me MORE area of light that draw BARELY less power. I promise you for the price 2 blackstar 500's is going to blow the spectra and the penetrator out of the water.
> 
> As a single panel the blackstar is going to lose out to the GLH panel for sure though, I own blackstars and kessils, very happy with both of them. Would like to run some GLH stuff but at the prices shown NOT WORTH IT. Im wanting around 600watts of draw from my LED panels now and 2 500's will make me a happy camper without having to spend 2500 bucks to get it.
> 
> subbed to this bad boy.


Just wanted to say that something is not right here with pricing per watt. 

Don't know if Mike at GLH has totally changed his pricing, but I bought (2) 290's maybe 5 months ago for 1300 total. They draw 330w EACH, giving me a price of $1.96/watt. Very close to the blackstar.


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## WeJuana (Oct 13, 2011)

Heretic said:


> Just wanted to say that something is not right here with pricing per watt.
> 
> Don't know if Mike at GLH has totally changed his pricing, but I bought (2) 290's maybe 5 months ago for 1300 total. They draw 330w EACH, giving me a price of $1.96/watt. Very close to the blackstar.


I see what your talking about.. GLH still seems to be selling the unit your speaking of. 

If you click on the 180 model on their website, it says its the new 290 which draws 305 watts and is $750.
The next model up, the old 300, which is now the 500 is going for $1,299. The description states it draws both 360w and 500w, so I am not sure if they are upgrading the wattage, but mine draws 360w. 

I'm not too sure how they came up with the pricing, but it definitely seems like the better buy would be with the "180 model" as it is called on the site if it draws 305 watts over the 300/500 @ 360w.


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## Scrogreen (Oct 13, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I see what your talking about.. GLH still seems to be selling the unit your speaking of.
> 
> If you click on the 180 model on their website, it says its the new 290 which draws 305 watts and is $750.
> The next model up, the old 300, which is now the 500 is going for $1,299. The description states it draws both 360w and 500w, so I am not sure if they are upgrading the wattage, but mine draws 360w.
> ...


 

I have seen that too on the site. There upgrading? Can you tell a difference Juana? Or I guess you really dont have n e thing to compare it to. Just wondering "what" they did to improve the light besides make it a little bigger.


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 13, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Correct. All 3 of these were taken from the same mother, so they are all of the same genes. Instead of transplanting the 3 into bigger pots, I'm just going to flower them.
> I took a clone which will just be put into a bigger pot when it's ready, and will be new my LA Con mom.
> 
> The clones coming up out of the clone machine are the same LA Con strain, so now we get to see if the yield will be effected with 3 gallon plastic pots vs 5/7 gallon smart pots in addition to
> ...


Not trying to be a know-it-all dick; but I finish my autos in three gallon smartpots and their less than half the size of your moms when fiinished......It's your grow do what you want
oh love the smartpots by the way...


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## SWUSAZ (Oct 13, 2011)

Nice stuff Sub'd.


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## WeJuana (Oct 13, 2011)

@ Scrogreen - I am still awaiting an email back from GLH to clear that up, so I will post info once I receive it.
@ PSUAGRO - I appreciate all input and comments, so don't hesitate to give it. I am aware that 3 gallon is not necessarily an ideal size pot for flowering and I may lose some yield with them, but it is all for the sake of experimentation and learning 
@SWUSAZ - Thanks and glad to have you with us!


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## WeJuana (Oct 13, 2011)

[video=youtube;Ef1QqBnW344]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef1QqBnW344[/video]

Video of the LA Con mother plants showing their size


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## PrezDickie (Oct 13, 2011)

Which of the three plants will be going with which lights? I've got a lil feeling that the plant furthest to the right in the tent will put out a really nice main cola. thanks for the video. how soon till the mothers get to the test tents?


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## WeJuana (Oct 13, 2011)

PrezDickie said:


> Which of the three plants will be going with which lights? I've got a lil feeling that the plant furthest to the right in the tent will put out a really nice main cola. thanks for the video. how soon till the mothers get to the test tents?


Thanks! I'll try to do video updates every now and then.

The way I see it, I'll size up the largest plant with least wattage to smallest with most wattage, making it:

Far right > Lighthouse Blackstar
Back right > Hydro Grow LED Spectra
Left > Grow LED Hydro Spectra

I know the bush on the right has a good stature for a top cola as was pointed out, but I think these 3 are close enough for a pretty accurate comparison. This will be just one trial of multiple, with the next set of plants trailing like 4 weeks behind. I think we will definitely get a good feel for how these lights perform after a few harvests.

They'll be entering into the flower tents tomorrow.


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 13, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Thanks! I'll try to do video updates every now and then.
> 
> The way I see it, I'll size up the largest plant with least wattage to smallest with most wattage, making it:
> 
> ...


Let the Led trolling begin...........................................


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## trx250x7 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hmm Ever think about adding a 4th? http://californialightworks.com/grower-feedback-program.html They have a free trial for test grows...


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## PrezDickie (Oct 13, 2011)

trx250x7 said:


> Hmm Ever think about adding a 4th? http://californialightworks.com/grower-feedback-program.html They have a free trial for test grows...


Hard to imagine these lights can match up even with the 5W led they have such a limited spectrum. Do you know of anyone who has grown with them?


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## trx250x7 (Oct 13, 2011)

I just came across.. more of a test than to see if its better than the others. I would like to see how they work


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## Heretic (Oct 13, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I see what your talking about.. GLH still seems to be selling the unit your speaking of.
> 
> If you click on the 180 model on their website, it says its the new 290 which draws 305 watts and is $750.
> The next model up, the old 300, which is now the 500 is going for $1,299. The description states it draws both 360w and 500w, so I am not sure if they are upgrading the wattage, but mine draws 360w.
> ...


The website has been kinda useless for a while now. 500 should be how many watts the leds actually draw. That's why my 290's draw slightly higher due to fan wattage. Since yours draws closer to mine, and you claim to have paid double, I would try to get in touch with Mike at glh and see what he says about it... unless you are fine with that. lol

I guess disregard if you bought used and got the older 300 or something...


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## WeJuana (Oct 13, 2011)

@PSAUGRO - Yeaah buddy!!
@trx - I was thinking of running 4 but right now I'm lacking space, possibly in the future. I would want to keep a similar wattage though for test purposes.
@Heretic - I was under the impression I was getting a 360w light  Good looking out though.


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## hippy132 (Oct 14, 2011)

Heretic said:


> The website has been kinda useless for a while now. 500 should be how many watts the leds actually draw. That's why my 290's draw slightly higher due to fan wattage. Since yours draws closer to mine, and you claim to have paid double, I would try to get in touch with Mike at glh and see what he says about it... unless you are fine with that. lol
> 
> I guess disregard if you bought used and got the older 300 or something...


 Yes, I bought two Spectra 180's thinking I was getting the new ones ( V3) which were the new 300's ?? and got the V2 which apparently has to be kept 4 ft away from plant, could have been happier with better communication and website up to date. Its all crazy, not sure what to believe anymore...


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## WeJuana (Oct 14, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> Yes, I bought two Spectra 180's thinking I was getting the new ones ( V3) which were the new 300's ?? and got the V2 which apparently has to be kept 4 ft away from plant, could have been happier with better communication and website up to date. Its all crazy, not sure what to believe anymore...


I definitely think their page needs to be cleaned up and narrowed to one wattage draw and name per unit. I will make sure to note it in my reply when I receive a response.


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## El Superbeasto (Oct 14, 2011)

The thing with "Mike" from GLH, he's not as honest as most would like to think.

He has an "alter ego" on here and other forums...

Want more info, PM me.


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## curly604 (Oct 14, 2011)

ill second that motion , get him beasto!!!!


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## Endur0xX (Oct 14, 2011)

trx250x7 said:


> Hmm Ever think about adding a 4th? http://californialightworks.com/grower-feedback-program.html They have a free trial for test grows...



it seems like a good deal, I almost want to pretend I am an experienced grower to get that deal! too bad I dont have a 1000$ kickin around! In terms of this ULTIMATE LED TEST though, it would take to long to get it going if he has to wait 2 weeks to be approved and then shipping... LETS GET THIS SHOW ROLLING!


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## WeJuana (Oct 14, 2011)

El Superbeasto said:


> The thing with "Mike" from GLH, he's not as honest as most would like to think.
> 
> He has an "alter ego" on here and other forums...
> 
> Want more info, PM me.


Hopefully I don't need to ever find out about any of the light supplier's alter egos, as I am really not personally trying to judge conduct, just looking for a solid product. 

@Endur0xX - That definitely seems like a good deal considering wattage, 5w bulbs and price with the trial test package.. but like you said let's get this thing going! I couldn't wait another 2 days let alone 2 weeks lol.

*LA Cons are head to their flower tent in a few hours! Ill post an update as soon as they go in.*


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## sleezy1 (Oct 14, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Hopefully I don't need to ever find out about any of the light supplier's alter egos, as I am really not personally trying to judge conduct, just looking for a solid product.
> 
> @Endur0xX - That definitely seems like a good deal considering wattage, 5w bulbs and price with the trial test package.. but like you said let's get this thing going! I couldn't wait another 2 days let alone 2 weeks lol.
> 
> *LA Cons are head to their flower tent in a few hours! Ill post an update as soon as they go in.*


Thanks for checking out my 500w Blackstar LA CON/OG Herojuana grow. I like your comparison journal!


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## WeJuana (Oct 14, 2011)

Not a problem Sleezy! I'm all about learning about LED. I hope you stick around.. the comparison starts today!


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 14, 2011)

just updated my micro grow thread, they beastin, good lookin forward to some mo comparison updates up in hur.


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## WeJuana (Oct 14, 2011)

[video=youtube;lKutj5XDW10]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKutj5XDW10[/video]

LA CON Day 7 in the EZ Clone, and you can see the roots are starting to form.
Sorry for the video lacking a quality zoom in, today I was a one man band with a camera a clone and 2 hands lol

By the way for those curious, I purchased the EZ Clone from www.TheHydroCloset.com


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## cannawizard (Oct 14, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> [video=youtube;lKutj5XDW10]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKutj5XDW10[/video]
> 
> LA CON Day 7 in the EZ Clone, and you can see the roots are starting to form.
> Sorry for the video lacking a quality zoom in, today I was a one man band with a camera a clone and 2 hands lol
> ...


**i use to go ez-cloner 60/120 models.. but i like the 30s better, easier to manage


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## WeJuana (Oct 14, 2011)

cannawizard said:


> **i use to go ez-cloner 60/120 models.. but i like the 30s better, easier to manage


This is my first experience with an EZ Clone, and I do have to say it's given me a lot more freedom versus a clone dome. It's an awesome investment and freed up my schedule! I'm really digging not having to had mist and vent the clones constantly.. I literally just put them in 7 days ago and check the progress if/when I want and they are all doing great!


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## cannawizard (Oct 14, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> This is my first experience with an EZ Clone, and I do have to say it's given me a lot more freedom versus a clone dome. It's an awesome investment and freed up my schedule! I'm really digging not having to had mist and vent the clones constantly.. I literally just put them in 7 days ago and check the progress if/when I want and they are all doing great!


**say goodbye to those useless domes .. i only mist when i wanna give'm additives..

--cheers


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 14, 2011)

wanna hear somthin funny i never use em anyways, nor do i ever mist em EVER they just get cut tossed into soaked 5.5 cubes with root tech on em and away we go keep cubes moist good to go in 8-15 days.


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## WeJuana (Oct 14, 2011)

@cannawizard - Cheers to that!
@Kaptain Kron - Nice! Do you use a heating pad?


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 14, 2011)

no sir i do not.


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## WeJuana (Oct 14, 2011)

Sounds pretty simple! If I ever decide to stray from the EZ Clone machine again I may have to give it a try. Who makes root tech?


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## 711grower (Oct 14, 2011)

be weary of california light works. it may be a great light but there method of marketing seems shady if you ask me. they want you to leave a secutity deposit of 999. send them pics or videos. then after 90 days of testing there product for them you can return it or keep it. if you keep it then oilla they keep your deposit. folks this is called a 90 day money back guarantee. glh, hydro grow, advanced, and several others have the same program. they forgot to mention it makes your dick bigger and your guaranteed to turn your plants into playmates.


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

[video=youtube;bhmI-PRoi8w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhmI-PRoi8w[/video]

Sorry for the delay in posting, I didn't get a chance to film before lights went out, so they just came on so here is the video update.​


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## Endur0xX (Oct 15, 2011)

you are not gonna move the light for the full growth? normally how close can you keep those LEDs?


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## puffenuff (Oct 15, 2011)

So which light illuminates its tents the most? Any early indication of which light is more intense or can penetrate better?


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

@Enduro - Correct, the lights will be remaining stationary @ 55" which puts them currently approx 24" from the top of the canopy. I usually try to keep my lights about 14" off the top, but anywhere between 12"-24" is a good range in my opinion.

@pufenuff - I'm glad you asked! I noticed there is a pretty substantial difference in color hue coming from the tents which I will try to get a good pic of to upload.

*The GLH appears more of a white, light pink, followed by the Blackstar with a darker pink, and then the Penetrator is actually almost purplish in comparison.* 

This is how I rate the lights on a 3 star scale:

*Visual Light Intensity*
*** GLH
** Penetrator
* Blackstar

*Visual Light Footprint*
*** Penetrator
** GLH
* Blackstar


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 15, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> @Enduro - Correct, the lights will be remaining stationary @ 55" which puts them currently approx 24" from the top of the canopy. I usually try to keep my lights about 14" off the top, but anywhere between 12"-24" is a good range in my opinion.
> 
> @pufenuff - I'm glad you asked! I noticed there is a pretty substantial difference in color hue coming from the tents which I will try to get a good pic of to upload.
> 
> ...


I like how this is starting up already.......good job!


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## Endur0xX (Oct 15, 2011)

I am using an old dresser to build a tiny grow cabinet, I was hoping to have my lights 10inches away from my netting ( I am doing a SCROG) so that late in flowering the biggest buds might be something like 4 inches away ... would that be too close? I thought I read that you can almost have the LED touching the plants!?

my lights for that cabinet :

Fero 180 4G LED Grow Light (3W single chip)
BLUE 90W UFO LED GROW LIGHT 90 WATT 5th Generation 
90W QUAD BAND LED GROW LIGHT UFO 90 WATT QUADBAND (the 2 ufo are the 1W LED tech)


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## jubiare (Oct 15, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> I am using an old dresser to build a tiny grow cabinet, I was hoping to have my lights 10inches away from my netting ( I am doing a SCROG) so that late in flowering the biggest buds might be something like 4 inches away ... would that be too close? I thought I read that you can almost have the LED touching the plants!?
> 
> my lights for that cabinet :
> 
> ...


yOU'D be most likely all right with those lights; if you take for example the spectra 11 v1 or v2, you'd have problems.. coz the 3w chips are driven at too much power (people have reported issues and this was the conclusion on it). They in fact released v3, which should have chips driven at less power.. so 
WEJUANA, It would be great to know what version you have got


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 15, 2011)

v1 you could have close v2's are the only version affected by this and if you want it changed mike will send out a v3 power supply to you free of charge. Also Even though the GLH and penetrator have better footprints and intensity, my question is, visually since thats all you got to work with so far, is it really such a substantial difference that you would feel justified purchasing the GLH or penetrator over the BS. VISUALLY SPEAKING ONLY AS I KNOW YOU HAVE NOT EVEN BEGUN ACTUAL TESTING.


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## jubiare (Oct 15, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> v1 you could have close v2's are the only version affected by this and if you want it changed mike will send out a v3 power supply to you free of charge. Also Even though the GLH and penetrator have better footprints and intensity, my question is, visually since thats all you got to work with so far, is it really such a substantial difference that you would feel justified purchasing the GLH or penetrator over the BS. VISUALLY SPEAKING ONLY AS I KNOW YOU HAVE NOT EVEN BEGUN ACTUAL TESTING.


well, v1 has to have some issues, in fact v2 has been introduced, but more issues came... so v3 arrived don't need a power supply coz I do not have a spectra at all.. I thought about purchasing one but after all this Version issues I am confused and will hang on


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 15, 2011)

umm dood it happens to any company new year new model... you dont like upgrades. Their V1 panel was fuckin awesome bro, only difference was the LED's used it used 1w now they use 3w with a single diode instead of 3 clumped single watt diodes. thats the difference between v1 and v2 v3, difference between v2 and v3 is power supply.


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

@PSAUGRO - Thx so much! I'm glad to finally get it started.
@Endur0 - I think you shouldn't have any issue with the 10" but I could not say whether or not it may bleach out some color @ 4" The UFO's are the only lights you mentioned which I have had experience with. One thing I did notice is when I was running the UFOs as supplemental lighting with the Blackstar as the main light, it was apparent the growth under the UFO light was noticeably less developed.
@jubiare - Do you know of any way which I can look at the light and distinguish which version it is? If not I will be sure to add that to the list of questions for GLH when I receive a response.


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> v1 you could have close v2's are the only version affected by this and if you want it changed mike will send out a v3 power supply to you free of charge. Also Even though the GLH and penetrator have better footprints and intensity, my question is, visually since thats all you got to work with so far, is it really such a substantial difference that you would feel justified purchasing the GLH or penetrator over the BS. VISUALLY SPEAKING ONLY AS I KNOW YOU HAVE NOT EVEN BEGUN ACTUAL TESTING.


Visually, they are all extremely bright in their own hue of pink/purple. To answer your question, from look alone, I would not say there is a substantial difference that wound indicate superiority, just different colors and intensities. With the visual difference in lights, I don't feel it's something that sets them apart enough to justify purchasing one over another.


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## jubiare (Oct 15, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> umm dood it happens to any company new year new model... you dont like upgrades. Their V1 panel was fuckin awesome bro, only difference was the LED's used it used 1w now they use 3w with a single diode instead of 3 clumped single watt diodes. thats the difference between v1 and v2 v3, difference between v2 and v3 is power supply.


Kaptain Kron, are you tha person who make the lights? if so, just instruct us on how you have experimented with v1, v2 and v3. Otherwise, more wise that other, just accept the fact that v1 and v2 have had issues. It's not me saying that, have a look on the web and on irishboy inferno grow. People are unhappy with v1 and unhappy with v2, now there is v3. Everyone can go on the thread and have a look theimselves... and come up with their own conclusion. My conclusion is, I would hang on before purchasing any spectra till this version issues has been clarified, perhaps by the owner himself. Can I just have an opinion fellas? Do I have to be affiliate anywhere and defend that light to the death? f**k that! All I am understanding slowly but concretely, is that most company speculate on LED lights making us paying DOUBLE the real manifacture price, using us even to TEST their v1, v2, v3, penetrator 1 x v z w or Magnum+ - : x !!!!


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## jubiare (Oct 15, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> @jubiare - Do you know of any way which I can look at the light and distinguish which version it is? If not I will be sure to add that to the list of questions for GLH when I receive a response.


I have got no idea fella, the best person to ask that to is def the owner himself. I'd say if you just bought the light you should have the v3, if you bought the light a month or two ago you should have v2? Again, I do not really know


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

jubiare said:


> I have got no idea fella, the best person to ask that to is def the owner himself. I'd say if you just bought the light you should have the v3, if you bought the light a month or two ago you should have v2? Again, I do not really know


Haha okay no problem. Ill try to figure it out what version it is and I will update with info when I get it.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 15, 2011)

that doesnt mean there was anything wrong with em, shit man ask irish he'll tell ya there was nothin wrong with em, they just perform better now, its like you were sayin they were broke before. lol I dont even like glh really i just know the facts sorry.



jubiare said:


> Kaptain Kron, are you tha person who make the lights? if so, just instruct us on how you have experimented with v1, v2 and v3. Otherwise, more wise that other, just accept the fact that v1 and v2 have had issues. It's not me saying that, have a look on the web and on irishboy inferno grow. People are unhappy with v1 and unhappy with v2, now there is v3. Everyone can go on the thread and have a look theimselves... and come up with their own conclusion. My conclusion is, I would hang on before purchasing any spectra till this version issues has been clarified, perhaps by the owner himself. Can I just have an opinion fellas? Do I have to be affiliate anywhere and defend that light to the death? f**k that! All I am understanding slowly but concretely, is that most company speculate on LED lights making us paying DOUBLE the real manifacture price, using us even to TEST their v1, v2, v3, penetrator 1 x v z w or Magnum+ - : x !!!!


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## coolj (Oct 15, 2011)

how do u like them, im thinking abt 2 240s for my dr150w


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

coolj said:


> how do u like them, im thinking abt 2 240s for my dr150w


I'd say go for it! I think the 240s are worth their weight in gold! I have 2 of the Blackstar 240 High Outputs over the clones and used them for supplemental lighting in previous grows.

240's are probably my favorite light because they're so versatile and can be used clone/seed through flower.. and just because I would even prefer to have 2 240s over a 500 because it gives more options as far as lighting footprint. 

The 240w flower version I have not personally used or seen, but I imagine it would perform well, and be basically half of a Blackstar 500.


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## coolj (Oct 15, 2011)

Ive got a 600 quantum. was going to buy another I just dont have the loot to make a mistake, plus i want to stay kinda stealth and my value line 6 is loud as heck Would 2 or 3 240s come close to two 600?


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

coolj said:


> Ive got a 600 quantum. was going to buy another I just dont have the loot to make a mistake, plus i want to stay kinda stealth and my value line 6 is loud as heck Would 2 or 3 240s come close to two 600?


I wish I could say, but I do not have any experience or knowledge of the quantum lights other than the literature online. The claimed power draw on the quantum is 550w, and I know the Blackstars draw around 150w. As far as wattage is concerned about 3-4 of the 240's equal one of the quantum lights. As far as grow area, I know that 2 240s can do a 4x4 area with an excellent footprint and the quantum is claiming (3.5'x4') 4x4 coverage with the 600 unit.


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## xgiovanni03x (Oct 15, 2011)

Lovin the thread! i wish i could get LED lights but dont got that type of cash right now  but i will keep a close eye on this "expirement"


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks gio! Glad to have you on the thread with us. I hope you come into the position to get an LED light soon!


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## coolj (Oct 15, 2011)

I have 1 600hps digital and a dr150w 2.5' x 5' I wanted to add another 600, but i like leds low heat What leds do u guys recommend to replace two 600hps lamps.. Also Im abt to get a bigger tent 5' x10' or 8'x8' and sell my dr150w


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

Today was day 3 of 12-12 in the flower tents, and although there isn't much to show as far as progress, I did take some pics and I wanted to point out the difference in hue (color) the lights put out.

These 3 pictures were taken using the exact same shutter setting, so the difference in color is all lights, not exposure. 

In order of lightest to darkest:

Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

coolj said:


> I have 1 600hps digital and a dr150w 2.5' x 5' I wanted to add another 600, but i like leds low heat What leds do u guys recommend to replace two 600hps lamps.. Also Im abt to get a bigger tent 5' x10' or 8'x8' and sell my dr150w


It really depends what your budget is and what you are trying to achieve as far as the LED recommendation is concerned.. you could effectively use LED's as a secondary source of light along with the HPS, or all LED.

As far as the tents, I bought mine here and would highly recommend them! > http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/growtents.html

Looks like an 8x4 is going for $184. I have multiple 4x4s and I couldn't be more happy with the purchase! One of my next updates will be on the tents and why I love em, but lets just say with my limited setup space, if I didn't have these tents with the side flaps able to open, this grow would not be able to take place because I would not be able to transfer plants from tent to tent.


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## coolj (Oct 15, 2011)

Id like to go all led, my quantum ballast was 168, my air cooled hood was 80 and the digilux 600 was 70. 300 is ok per light IMO just as long as i can compete with a 600hps without the 600hps heat!!! also i desire to grow food also IE peppers, cherry tomato, and salad greens, im really tuned in to this grow..


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## Endur0xX (Oct 15, 2011)

coolj said:


> Id like to go all led, my quantum ballast was 168, my air cooled hood was 80 and the digilux 600 was 70. 300 is ok per light IMO just as long as i can compete with a 600hps without the 600hps heat!!! also i desire to grow food also IE peppers, cherry tomato, and salad greens, im really tuned in to this grow..


 I was thinking the same thing at some point but I dont think it is economically feasible to grow veggies under lights!!... just not worth the power and all! anyone know if they are bad in a grow room!? I guess you can just have them on the side getting the residual light?


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

The only lights I would recommend in the $300 price range that I have personally had experience with is a Blackstar 240 High Output. 

I started out in the LED world by buying 2 UFOs for around $300 and a Blackstar 240 for around $300. The UFOs were the biggest mistake ever. The growth was so much slower and noticeably less healthy looking. Luckily I purchased a Blackstar @ the same time and saw the difference between LEDs.. otherwise I could have been another one of these total anti-led nuts! haha


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## Endur0xX (Oct 15, 2011)

I wish I didnt buy those 2 UFOs ... they are a better version that the orignal but are still 1 watter...at least I didnt pay 300$


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## coolj (Oct 15, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> The only lights I would recommend in the $300 price range that I have personally had experience with is a Blackstar 240 High Output.
> 
> I started out in the LED world by buying 2 UFOs for around $300 and a Blackstar 240 for around $300. The UFOs were the biggest mistake ever. The growth was so much slower and noticeably less healthy looking. Luckily I purchased a Blackstar @ the same time and saw the difference between LEDs.. otherwise I could have been another one of these total anti-led nuts! haha


ok cool so knowing what i want to do should i get some 240s or step my game up to a pair of stronger led lights? Im looking to blind my plants, LOL in my dr150, and when i get my next tent i dont want to add more than 2 or 3 new lights im thinking 4 lights for an 8x8 space but i could do 6.. just not sure what company i wanna pull the trigger with or what size to go with. I hate spending twice because i didnt do my homework..


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

@Endur0 - No kidding! UFO's are a joke in my opinion, but I want to clarify when I say UFO I mean the generic chinese junk ones found on ebay. I know a lot of companies have their own UFO style light and im not passing any judgements because I have not yet myself tested them.

@coolj- Well if the $300 isn't your budget per light, I would say sit back and watch the grow and see how things start to develop. You get to see it on my dime and don't have to spend twice lol.


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## coolj (Oct 15, 2011)

lol bro, i can do 300 a light, im just watching to find out if i should do 500/800 per light and buy less lights...Also whats up with "trugrolights.com"


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## WeJuana (Oct 15, 2011)

coolj said:


> lol bro, i can do 300 a light, im just watching to find out if i should do 500/800 per light and buy less lights...Also whats up with "trugrolights.com"


Smart thinkin! I was not trying to say you could not afford $300 lights or anything like that. I just thought you were budgeting for a light around the $300 mark because you added up your HPS and figured that was about your cost you were trying to stay within. 

I'm not familiar with "trugrolights.com" I just checked their site and they don't show prices with specifics or have any form online store. Any idea where you can actually buy them?


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## coolj (Oct 16, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Smart thinkin! I was not trying to say you could not afford $300 lights or anything like that. I just thought you were budgeting for a light around the $300 mark because you added up your HPS and figured that was about your cost you were trying to stay within.
> 
> I'm not familiar with "trugrolights.com" I just checked their site and they don't show prices with specifics or have any form online store. Any idea where you can actually buy them?


LOL, but i would rather spend less, my goal is to gro 8/16 plants stealth,in a stagg harvest in the same flower room and get a zip or 2 per plant, im going to use my dr80 as a clone veg room or get a dp90. I bought two bubbleponics kits but i think i want to just stay soil and use the moonshine mix, dont have time to micro manage plants.
I chex'd out those lighthouse tents and i like the 6.5x6.5 i think that would be cool . also i was looking at htgsupply and their tents seem pretty impressive. I cant wait to find out why u chose lighthouse other than the price. any input would be most needed.. thanks Bro


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## Scrogreen (Oct 16, 2011)

Everything is lookn good juana! Keep up the good work!


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 16, 2011)

2 blackstar 500's man same price actually a bit less as a single 300 watt draw GLH, and you get more coverage area, and 2 300 watt draw lights  blackstars are business man, If you got the coin and mike at GLH doesnt strike you as shady the day you talk to him go with GLH i would say. The penetrator just seems like too much $ for that wattage draw. If you wait to see the results of this lovely test im sure you will see what i talk about, the GLH panel is probably a bit better than the blackstar 500 panel but not by much and not for how much they want for it IMO, waiting for mike to lower prices a bit over there and ill probably bounce over and start usin their panels if i havent completely switched up to kessil by then.



coolj said:


> LOL, but i would rather spend less, my goal is to gro 8/16 plants stealth,in a stagg harvest in the same flower room and get a zip or 2 per plant, im going to use my dr80 as a clone veg room or get a dp90. I bought two bubbleponics kits but i think i want to just stay soil and use the moonshine mix, dont have time to micro manage plants.
> I chex'd out those lighthouse tents and i like the 6.5x6.5 i think that would be cool . also i was looking at htgsupply and their tents seem pretty impressive. I cant wait to find out why u chose lighthouse other than the price. any input would be most needed.. thanks Bro


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## spicoli129 (Oct 16, 2011)

Subbed for this one! Nice to see a good comparison on LED's since most people won't give them a chance. I've had good success with Blackstar 240w's. I've always wanted to get some penetrator's to run with my HPS's.

Look forward to your progress! Good luck man!


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## davoswavos (Oct 16, 2011)

It's crazy how purple the penetrator is I haven't seen any grows with them yet should be interesting to see these lights battle.


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## WeJuana (Oct 16, 2011)

coolj said:


> LOL, but i would rather spend less, my goal is to gro 8/16 plants stealth,in a stagg harvest in the same flower room and get a zip or 2 per plant, im going to use my dr80 as a clone veg room or get a dp90. I bought two bubbleponics kits but i think i want to just stay soil and use the moonshine mix, dont have time to micro manage plants.
> I chex'd out those lighthouse tents and i like the 6.5x6.5 i think that would be cool . also i was looking at htgsupply and their tents seem pretty impressive. I cant wait to find out why u chose lighthouse other than the price. any input would be most needed.. thanks Bro


I like the tents so much because they have real wide side panels that unzip so I can transfer plants in a limited space! If I didn't have tents that had opening side panels, I would not physically be able to transfer the plants from tent to tent, because there is only about an 8 inch gap between tents to work with. Ill get some pics of the setup so you all can see what I am talking about.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Oct 17, 2011)

WeJuana- how are these doing in comparison to the Blackstar 240's??


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## WeJuana (Oct 17, 2011)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> WeJuana- how are these doing in comparison to the Blackstar 240's??


It's hard to say at this point because usually the first week or 2 of flower aren't too fast paced and I have not yet done a grow using only 240's, so I couldn't fairly compare them.

I have the 240s hanging over the clones right now, which are doing awesome; all the other lights are on flower so at this stage it would be like trying to compare apples to oranges.


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## hoss12781 (Oct 17, 2011)

coolj said:


> lol bro, i can do 300 a light, im just watching to find out if i should do 500/800 per light and buy less lights...Also whats up with "trugrolights.com"


I'm of the opinion that getting more smaller wattage panels in my garden has been more beneficial than having one massive light. Gives you a modular set up. I'm running 560w of actual led output (790w of chipset capacity) broken up into four different panels. Here is the one's I'm using - www.hydroponicshut.com for 300 a pop the PG 180 actually puts out more output power (155w) than the Blackstar 240 (140ish watts). Also has 14 spectrum including IR and UV. They've served me well. Whatever brand you get if you have a small garden heed this advice. You can do a lot more with a bunch of smaller panels as opposed to one large panel. They are super easy to mount as you see fit given the current state of any grow allowing maximum light exposure for every plant.


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## WeJuana (Oct 17, 2011)

*Day 5*

Blackstar 500






Penetrator 336x






Spectra 300







*GROW SETUP*






Red dots represent the carbon filters I just added to upgrade garden. 






I put the carbon filter cans between the small 9" gap in the back tents to maximize space.






Showing the 9" gap I have to work with. 






If it was not for the side pockets on the tents, I would be unable to transfer plants from tent to tent (especially ones the size of the LA con moms).






EZ Clone machine fits perfectly in the 30" gap with 2 240s over top.




​


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## coolj (Oct 17, 2011)

hoss12781 said:


> I'm of the opinion that getting more smaller wattage panels in my garden has been more beneficial than having one massive light. Gives you a modular set up. I'm running 560w of actual led output (790w of chipset capacity) broken up into four different panels. Here is the one's I'm using - www.hydroponicshut.com for 300 a pop the PG 180 actually puts out more output power (155w) than the Blackstar 240 (140ish watts). Also has 14 spectrum including IR and UV. They've served me well. Whatever brand you get if you have a small garden heed this advice. You can do a lot more with a bunch of smaller panels as opposed to one large panel. They are super easy to mount as you see fit given the current state of any grow allowing maximum light exposure for every plant.


Wow funny u should mention hydroponic hut, its a dude on craigslist in my area selling a 190 w led light he purchased from them in 2009 for $399 he is asking $180 should i buy it?


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## coolj (Oct 17, 2011)

I love how small and hi tech looking those lights are, ive been looking into getting either a turbo klone t24 or a botanicare clone25 just not sure which one yet.


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## hoss12781 (Oct 17, 2011)

coolj said:


> Wow funny u should mention hydroponic hut, its a dude on craigslist in my area selling a 190 w led light he purchased from them in 2009 for $399 he is asking $180 should i buy it?


I have no idea what model that would be. The first light I bought from them was in 2011 when they had the 180,260, & 550 chipset models. I'm happy with the 2011 model lights I bought but can't speak from first hand experience on the older models so I won't. I will say a big part of the appeal for me was buying lights that come with a 3 year usa based warranty. I wanted to know I wouldn't have to spend any more money on lighting for the next three years - you won't get that from a craigslist deal. If I were in your shoes, I'd drop a bit more on a new model I think all led companies have really stepped up their games in the last three years.

Edit - I do have a 2010 model PG 250 that I got on Ebay, it was refurbed but still had the three year warranty on it. It only has a 1w veg chipset but a full 3w flowering chipset so I'd wager to say the 2009 models also had the same lower wattage diodes. It's probably not the best bang for your buck.

WeJuana - sorry to interrupt the experiment - again kudos and very interesting. Looks like the GLH is bleaching a tad, eh?


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## WeJuana (Oct 17, 2011)

hoss12781 said:


> I have no idea what model that would be. The first light I bought from them was in 2011 when they had the 180,260, & 550 chipset models. I'm happy with the 2011 model lights I bought but can't speak from first hand experience on the older models so I won't. I will say a big part of the appeal for me was buying lights that come with a 3 year usa based warranty. I wanted to know I wouldn't have to spend any more money on lighting for the next three years - you won't get that from a craigslist deal. If I were in your shoes, I'd drop a bit more on a new model I think all led companies have really stepped up their games in the last three years.
> 
> Edit - I do have a 2010 model PG 250 that I got on Ebay, it was refurbed but still had the three year warranty on it. It only has a 1w veg chipset but a full 3w flowering chipset so I'd wager to say the 2009 models also had the same lower wattage diodes. It's probably not the best bang for your buck.
> 
> WeJuana - sorry to interrupt the experiment - again kudos and very interesting. Looks like the GLH is bleaching a tad, eh?


Not a problem  I appreciate you adding some knowledge to the thread and giving your input on the brand since your familiar with it!

The GLH shows it a little bit better because the whiter light, but all 3 plants are showing starting symptoms of Magnesium deficiency. I think it could be due to the smaller 3 gal pots, hence a smaller root structure not able to take up Mg fast enough. Ill be feeding with 2 tsp of epsom salt per gallon for the next 2 waterings and I think we should see the green start to rush back nicely


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## hoss12781 (Oct 17, 2011)

I've found I had to add more Cal Mag Plus to my led plants compared to the amount necessary for my hps/mh plants. I've spoken to other led growers who shared the same observation.


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## coolj (Oct 17, 2011)

I think this great what ur r doing with the led lights, im torn between 3 companies advanced Led lights, lighthouse and hydroponic hut..


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## WeJuana (Oct 17, 2011)

hoss12781 said:


> I've found I had to add more Cal Mag Plus to my led plants compared to the amount necessary for my hps/mh plants. I've spoken to other led growers who shared the same observation.


Yeah I agree with that also! I have been using Epsom salt, but I just ran out and got some Mag-Pro, so ill be using that to help keep mag levels balanced in replacement of the salt. 
@coolj - Thanks! I'm glad your finding it interesting and I hope this grow gives you some basis to help make your final decision.


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## coolj (Oct 17, 2011)

holy shit dude, im on hydro grow led website, is this data real? these r some kickazz lights, the penatrator series rocks, I might have to step my game up and buy some of these lights


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## WeJuana (Oct 17, 2011)

coolj said:


> holy shit dude, im on hydro grow led website, is this data real? these r some kickazz lights, the penatrator series rocks, I might have to step my game up and buy some of these lights


I'm not too sure about the validity of the stats but I think the results of this should speak for the lights capabilities. Keep in mind I am keeping all of these lights about twice the recommended distance from the canopy, meaning for those who purchase the lights themselves and adjust the height, the results could theoretically be better than those produced in this experiment.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 17, 2011)

My two 600w lights are closer to my plants than thoes pannels.


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## hoss12781 (Oct 17, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I'm not too sure about the validity of the stats but I think the results of this should speak for the lights capabilities. Keep in mind I am keeping all of these lights about twice the recommended distance from the canopy, meaning for those who purchase the lights themselves and adjust the height, the results could theoretically be better than those produced in this experiment.


I keep mine 10 inches in veg 7-8 in flower anything closer bleaches like crazy.


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## WeJuana (Oct 17, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> My two 600w lights are closer to my plants than thoes pannels.


My point exactly lol


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## RawBudzski (Oct 17, 2011)

They look good for being that far away though, nice & wide fans. Plus.. That Purple color beats HPS yellow and day.


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## WeJuana (Oct 17, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> They look good for being that far away though, nice & wide fans. Plus.. That Purple color beats HPS yellow and day.


Thanks! The purple really does add some cool color, and since it throws off the color in the room anyways.. I figured F it and I added a green CFL. 





From my experience green light doesn't seem to disrupt the plant so now I have some light to work with if/when I would ever have to be in during the night cycle.


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 17, 2011)

wow!! this thread is moving fast......


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## maxpesh (Oct 18, 2011)

May I make a humble observation about the Light height from the canopy, I don't know about the other model u are using but I do know that the penetrator uses all 60 degree lenses to concentrate all the emitted light into a small footprint therefore u would need to lift it higher in order to achieve coverage but the blackstar uses a combination of 60 and 90 degree lenses so you don't need to lift it as high otherwise you are gonna weaken the penetrating power of the blackstar through reflection of the tent walls. Just to keep all things even ?


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> May I make a humble observation about the Light height from the canopy, I don't know about the other model u are using but I do know that the penetrator uses all 60 degree lenses to concentrate all the emitted light into a small footprint therefore u would need to lift it higher in order to achieve coverage but the blackstar uses a combination of 60 and 90 degree lenses so you don't need to lift it as high otherwise you are gonna weaken the penetrating power of the blackstar through reflection of the tent walls. Just to keep all things even ?


I appreciate the observation its definitely noted. There are multiple ways I could have chosen to uniform the light variable to make this a fair test, but since the light companies were at liberty to choose the angles of LEDs, I figured keeping them all at one height would show the difference in their decisions.

The test is being ran an non-optimal height to begin on purpose to show the minimum results. Further on in testing I may start adjusting the height of the lights to factory recommended height, but for now I want to create conditions to come up with a control study. If I were to run everything optimally, I would also upgrade the 3gal pots these LA Cons currently sit in, but again we will only be changing a variable or 2 every time to see how the results differ with different control variables using these LED lights.

@PSAGUARO - Sure is! I didn't even notice how much was added yesterday! I have a few upgrades to introduce to the garden soon which should keep the pace moving nicely


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## Endur0xX (Oct 18, 2011)

I think that as long as you keep the lights at the same heights in each tent, fair is fair! Also, I am looking forward to get my LEDs ... I should start getting them in about a week. I think that the main thing you are looking for now when buying LED is either a really good deal on 2W single chip unit or a 3W single chip unit... I wouldnt buy any LED with only 1W per diode. There is still so many for sale in the 400$+ range, be careful... it's not because you pay a lot that you get a lot!

example: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pro-Hydroponic-300w-LED-Plant-Grow-Light-QUAD-Band-/220876509831?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336d441287#ht_4243wt_1139 might seems like a really nice LED but it is the old technology.

go for this instead if you are about to pay 400$ http://www.ebay.ca/itm/360W-LED-Grow-Light-120x3W-chip-7-Band-2-5-day-shipping-/140622307824?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item6673d32a29#ht_4638wt_1110

Like I said, I am new to this... but I think even a lot of the good LEDs company still have a lots of light with the old 1W technology for sale... just do a good research when it's time to buy.

EDIT: those were only examples... I am not sure that the 120x3w is a single chip per diode, which is what you are looking for now I think, some of them are 3W diode but they run on 3x1W chip... I THINK

here is one that I feel confident to buy: http://www.advancedledlights.com/3w-led-grow-lights/new-diamond-series-leds-extreme-3w-led-technology/ and I am currently waiting for the 100W of this line! 400$ shipped to Canada...


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## jubiare (Oct 18, 2011)

I agree with all you say.. that guy on ebay deserves a try.. anybody experienced that? 1 thing I am not sure about the "true 3w diodes" or "3 x 1w" debate. Some companies are stubbornly using "3 x 1w" diodes. Why do they stick to that? (Magnums). is it really just a cost saving dirty move or something they really believe in?


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## maxpesh (Oct 18, 2011)

jubiare said:


> I agree with all you say.. that guy on ebay deserves a try.. anybody experienced that? 1 thing I am not sure about the "true 3w diodes" or "3 x 1w" debate. Some companies are stubbornly using "3 x 1w" diodes. Why do they stick to that? (Magnums). is it really just a cost saving dirty move or something they really believe in?


I think it's common knowledge now that if a light uses 3 watt diodes that it has to be 3w and not 3w3 (3 x 1watts). If that is true that the magnums use 3w3 then I wouldn't touch them, if anyone wants to understand the difference then I found a great link here. http://ledgrowlightsreview.org/


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

@Endur0 - Yessir! Keeping all the light @ 55" for the time being! Also thanks for the links!
@jubiare - My Ebay experience was not the best, but that was before I really knew about lights. As long as you know what you are looking for you should be able to find a great deal.
@maxpesh - Thanks for the link! I like how it approaches it from a familiar angle (forums giving tons of different info).


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## organicbynature (Oct 18, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> I think it's common knowledge now that if a light uses 3 watt diodes that it has to be 3w and not 3w3 (3 x 1watts). If that is true that the magnums use 3w3 then I wouldn't touch them, if anyone wants to understand the difference then I found a great link here. http://ledgrowlightsreview.org/


Your link seems to contradict your conclusion. Your link says:



> Some people insist that you need each individual LED to be at least 3 watts. This isnt necessary. Three watt lights have their advantages (deeper penetration into the plant), but so do 1 watt lights (more efficient). My suggestion is not to worry about it.


This is from Lesson 4, "Finding a Good LED Grow Light".

My understanding regarding penetration is that the degree of angle of the LED (?) affects penetration vs spread, with 120 having a higher spread and less penetration, and 90 and 60 having increasingly better penetration and less coverage.

I recently got a Magnum Plus, but have not had it long enough to draw any meaningful conclusions. I chose a Magnum because it seemed like people were having success with the 357.


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

organicbynature said:


> Your link seems to contradict your conclusion. Your link says:
> 
> This is from Lesson 4, "Finding a Good LED Grow Light".
> 
> ...


I hope you stick around and keep us updated with how you like the Magnum! I'm very curious to hear your feedback.


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## organicbynature (Oct 18, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I hope you stick around and keep us updated with how you like the Magnum! I'm very curious to hear your feedback.


Oh, I'm sticking around. This is a great grow! I'm subbed. 

I'm hoping to scale up over time so I'm very interested in your comparison. I think my next lighting purchase, though, will be some T5 fixtures with select aquarium bulbs. Have you seen that thread? I'm very intrigued.


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

Yesterday I put a 16"x6" carbon filter can on each tent. 
The room went from smelling like mylar and marijuana to nothing. I literally cant smell the skunk unless I put my head in the tents.

New light got here today! Mother tent, say hello to the Blackstar 900!






518w actual Draw






Showing the LEDs






Inside the mother tent






About 4 weeks from seed are "Trinity Kush" (bottom right) and "Power Africa" (middle right).

*One of these 2 will be the next strain in the cloner after the LA Con clones.
If you have a preference of which you would like to see please tell me, if there is a strong majority towards one strain that will be the one that's up next.*

The other tiny lil guys are just days from seed:
Aurora Indica
Qrazy Train
Purple Power
Confidential Cheese
AC Diesel
Moby Dick


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

organicbynature said:


> Oh, I'm sticking around. This is a great grow! I'm subbed.
> 
> I'm hoping to scale up over time so I'm very interested in your comparison. I think my next lighting purchase, though, will be some T5 fixtures with select aquarium bulbs. Have you seen that thread? I'm very intrigued.


Thanks! Ya I have kept a pretty close eye on that. The research as far as bulb types seems to all be there. Its definitely something I am interested in keeping an eye on and possibly trying in the future.


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## davoswavos (Oct 18, 2011)

Damn that bs 900 looks intense does it seem brighter than the bs 500 or same but bigger?


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## coolj (Oct 18, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Yesterday I put a 16"x6" carbon filter can on each tent.
> The room went from smelling like mylar and marijuana to nothing. I literally cant smell the skunk unless I put my head in the tents.
> 
> New light got here today! Mother tent, say hello to the Blackstar 900!
> ...


Hey friend send me some of that money or the old led ur not using lol


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## Endur0xX (Oct 18, 2011)

there is a long list Coolj


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 18, 2011)

Nice WeJuana......Sold your Apple stocks huh?????

I'm just [email protected] jealous right now....:0


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

haha no spare LEDs! I sold off what was in there to make room for the new and help cover some of the cost. I saw the 900w Blackstars were not listed on Gothams website, but for the draw and price, they seem like a steal of a deal so I had to get one and see how it does. (call for pricing)

I did sell my stocks! Took all my money out of this market before history repeats itself.. lol. 
But in reality I've just been saving up for a long time to do this the right way! This project is my baby.

I still have a few more items I am waiting on to add to the garden, but I'll wait til they get here, as not to spoil the surprise.


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## Endur0xX (Oct 18, 2011)

c02!! (sorry to spoil the surprise)

''Originally Posted by WeJuana '' 
Yesterday I put a 16"x6" carbon filter can on each tent...

I got mine today with the new fan


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> Damn that bs 900 looks intense does it seem brighter than the bs 500 or same but bigger?


It definitely has a more intense looking light output. Idk how bad it is but i can stare straight at a 240 or 500 without issue, even though I try not to unless necessary. The 900 is a blinder though.


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> c02!! (sorry to spoil the surprise)


Surprise spoiled. lol

I'm waiting on the CAP PPM-4 to get here!!


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> I don't know about the other model u are using but I do know that the penetrator uses all 60 degree lenses to concentrate all the emitted light into a small footprint therefore u would need to lift it higher in order to achieve coverage but the blackstar uses a combination of 60 and 90 degree lenses so you don't need to lift it as high otherwise you are gonna weaken the penetrating power of the blackstar through reflection of the tent walls.


Regarding your mention of the 60 degree lenses, Cammie, Owner at Hydro Grow LED, has been following the forum and asked me to clarify about the lenses to ensure correct information.

This is her direct quote: "Hydro Grow Penetrator and Penetrator PRO LED Grow Lights use a 60 degree lens. Extreme LED Grow Lights use a customized-angle X-Lens. The difference between these two technologies can be seen clearly via PAR output comparison data, showing intensity over area covered."

And also provided this chart


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## Endur0xX (Oct 18, 2011)

do you have the monitor on the CAP PPM 4 or it's just like a controler?? how much are you paying for this? I am trying to find a really cheap monitor only, that way I would do the sugar yeast method and just try to keep an eye on the c02 level, and I would simply add more bottles until I can reach the right level... suggestions?


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

$200 and its an automated monitor! Just plug in the regulator and your off!

This is the only website that has them in stock > http://www.growwurks.com/cap-ppm-4-co2-monitor-controller.aspx
Most of the other sites are drop-shippers and will let you order it and then tell you it's on backorder so you could be waiting up to weeks.


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## Endur0xX (Oct 18, 2011)

what else did you need to buy with to have all you need for the c02 setup? and there is no digital screen on it to tell you the levels of c02?


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## WeJuana (Oct 18, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> what else did you need to buy with to have all you need for the c02 setup? and there is no digital screen on it to tell you the levels of c02?


Its not a digital, it has a 3 light display (0-900) (901-1450) (1450+) and you simply plug in the co2 regulator.

Setup: 
Co2 Monitor/Controller (or you can calculate based on room size and use a timer, but its less accurate)
Co2 Tank
Co2 Regulator > http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-System-cubic-Timer-COSYS/dp/B0002HFN62/ref=sr_1_2?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1318998599&sr=1-2


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## Endur0xX (Oct 18, 2011)

I just found that article somewhere, since you are getting into c02 I thought you would enjoy reading it... also I wonder, how much c02 is wasted when you have a inline fan going nonstop to keep the temps down?


CO2 ENRICHMENT GUIDE
CO2 ENRICHMENT GUIDE 

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is used by plants in photosynthesis, or the conversion of water, atmospheric carbon dioxide and light in the plant's chloroplasts into food energy (simple carbohydrates), with oxygen as a byproduct. Resins and saps in the plants stems and branches then transmit this food around the plant to promote growth, reproduction and prevention of disease.

Photosynthesis stops at night, thus plants do not use CO2 during the night, or lights-out stage. Although enrichment of the atmosphere during the night cycle will not harm the plants, efficient CO2 systems are regulated so that when the lights go out, CO2 emissions stop. 

Ambient air at sea level contains approximately 350-500 ppm of carbon dioxide. Higher altitudes and rural locations typically have a lower presence of CO2, while lowlands and urban areas have a higher presence. CO2 can be measured, in parts per million (ppm) of air, using an inexpensive device available in hydroponics supply catalogs and garden shops (approx US$20).

Carbon dioxide enrichment involves increasing the concentrations of CO2 to 4-5 times the normal atmospheric levels, to between 1200-1500 ppm in an enclosed space. Enrichment has been shown to promote faster growth, higher yields, and stronger, healthier plants. Levels higher than 2000 ppm have been shown to retard plant growth. Low levels of CO2 (below 200) have been show to halt vigorous growth, even when all other conditions are ideal. Because of this, any enclosed space requires replenishment of the internal CO2 as it is used by plants, either from ventilation or from CO2 supplementation.

Temperature, humidity, and CO2 concentrations form a triangular relationship in a greenhouse or indoor grow. If all 3 factors are not in equilibrium, there is a risk to the plant in terms of stunted growth, toxicity, or death/disease.

Standard growing conditions typically include concentrations of CO2 at 300-500 ppm, temperatures between 65-80°F, and relatively low humidity (20-40% rH). Studies have shown optimal growth and yields at 90-95°F, 1,500 ppm CO2, 45-50% relative humidity, 7,500-10,000 lumens/square foot of light, and vigorous air movement both above and below the canopy. CO2 enrichment under 80°F, under 7500 lumens/sf, or above 50% humidity is not recommended because plants will not be conducting photosynthesis quickly enough to benefit from the enrichment. 

Internal air movement in the grow room is critical to CO2 enrichment. Carbon dioxide is a slightly heavier molecule than other molecules floating around in the gaseous mixture we call air. Thus, CO2 enrichment without air movement will result in the gas settling out of the atmosphere before it has a chance to reach the plants. High temps and humidity without air movement can also encourage mold and bacteria growth.

To calculate the amount of Carbon Dioxide needed to enrich a room to 1500 ppm, first calculate the volume of the growing space. For instance, an 8x8 foot room with an 8 foot ceiling would contain 512 cubic feet of space. Determine the CO2 needed to enrich to 1500 ppm by multiplying the volume of space by .0015.

512 x .0015 = 0.768 

Thus, 0.768 cubic feet (or rounded up to 0.8 cu ft ) of carbon dioxide will be needed to enrich this room at 1500 ppm. 1 lb of CO2 is equal to about 8.5 cubic feet at normal temperature and atmospheric pressure.

The rate at which carbon dioxide needs to be replaced is purely a function of how much ventilation the space receives and how many plants are consuming CO2 in the grow space. Only testing monitoring will ensure CO2 levels remain somewhat constant. Grow rooms that rely heavily on external ventilation to control temperatures or smell should not consider CO2 enrichment, because any gas introduced to the space will be blown out as quickly as it's created. A sealed room that relies on no external ventilation is ideal for CO2 enrichment. Since the ideal temperature for CO2 enrichment is much higher than normal, growers who employ this technique will need much less ventilation (if any).

For those who still want or need external ventilation, CO2 enrichment will only succeed if exhaust and enrichment are timed and set on opposing cycles. For instance, in a flowering room an exhaust fan timed to operate during the night would not conflict with CO2 enrichment during the day, when plants can use the additional gas. In vegetative growth rooms, the fans and enrichment would need alternating cycles to make enrichment worthwhile. For those growers using unregulated sysems, CO2 output should be adjusted for both speed and volume to make up for the exhaust.

There is some anecdotal evidence that charging nutrient solutions with seltzer cartridges will encourage plant growth in some hydroponics systems. The CO2 is released into the atmosphere as a byproduct of nutrient movement in the hydro system. This method has not been scientifically proven, nor would not be effective in aeroponic systems where nutrients are largely contained in separate tubs from the leaves and branches of the plant. Spray ring and ebb/flow systems may have the best potential for success with this method.

METHODS OF CO2 PRODUCTION

Tanked CO2

Tanked CO2 is by far the most reliable and controllable method of CO2 enrichment. Bottled CO2, usually available from welding supply and bottled gas vendors, is metered out via regulators and solenoids. It is possible to very finely regulate the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere using technologically advanced digital regulators. In many areas, licenses or permits are required to obtain bottled compressed gasses due to safety regulations.

Advantages
-Very fine control of CO2 using regulators
-Easy to automate, hassle free once set up

Disadvantages
-High initial cost of equipment
-Logistics of delivering and returning heavy bottles to a secure grow area
-The tank becomes a deadly projectile in a catastrophic failure, or can cause a significant and dangerous explosion in a fire.
-Rapid, unexpected release of CO2 can cause over-enrichment and asphyxiation of room occupants.
-Permit/license requirements may make bottled gas difficult to obtain

Combustion

Fuels such as ethyl alcohol, natural gas, or propane produce CO2 as a byproduct of combustion. Burning of one pound of clean burning heating fuel will produce 3 pounds of carbon dioxide gas, 1.5 pounds of water vapor, and approximately 22,000 BTU of heat.

Devices which help attract and kill mosquitoes in outdoor yards use propane fuel tanks to create carbon dioxide. The insects are attracted to the CO2, which in nature is an indication of a food source. These devices burn propane in a tightly regulated, low temperature combustion chamber. Although these would probably be the lowest temperature application of this method, any indoor storage of propane, natural gas or other bottled, explosive gasses is highly discouraged. 

Ethyl alcohol (available as denatured alcohol in hardware stores) is a readily available material and can be safely burned indoors in small stoves or lamps. Ethyl alcohol is also the primary reactive component of Sterno and similar gel fuels. 
In our sample room (8x8x, we would need to create about 1 lb (8.5 cu ft) of CO2 over a 24 hour period. To find the volume of ethyl alcohol, we first need to find out how much ethyl alcohol weighs. Water has a specific gravity of 1.0, but ethyl alcohol's specific gravity is .79. Since one gallon of water weighs 8.33 lbs:

8.33 x 0.79 = 6.58 lbs

Thus, 1 gallon of ethyl alcohol weighs 6.58 lbs. Since 1 lb of fuel creates 3 lbs of CO2, only .333 lb of fuel would be needed to create 1 lb of C02. 

By ratio and proportion:

6.58 lbs * X gals = .333 lb * 1 gal

X = .333/6.58 = .051 gal

Since 1 gal = 128 fluid ounces:

.051 gal * 128 ounces = 6.48 ounces

Thus, we would need to burn 6.48 ounces of ethyl alcohol per day (a little more than 3/4 cup) to enrich a completely sealed room. The amount of CO2 needed (and thus fuel) would increase with any supplemental air changes. There is some evidence that active combustion can help control odors in enclosed spaces.

Coleman stoves, bunsen burners, portable propane space heaters, and other similar devices are all potential sources of carbon dioxide as long as they are used safely.

Advantages
-Inexpensive to set up, depending on method chosen.
-Heat can be beneficial if temps are low, such as in a cold basement grow room.
-Output can be regulated by size of flame
-Can provide slight odor control.

Disadvantages
-Open flames in enclosed spaces create a fire hazard
-Additional heat produced by combustion adds to heat already produced by HID lighting.
-Can be difficult to burn enough fuel to achieve optimal enrichment without adverse side effects, such as carbon monoxide. 
-Indoor storage of bottled fuels is potentially dangerous.

Fermentation

It is widely known that CO2 is a byproduct of fermentation. CO2 is the gas found in bubbly beverages, such as champagne and beer. The same process that "carbonates" these beverages can be harnessed to create CO2 for a grow area. A pound of sugar will ferment into approx. 1/2 lb of ethyl alcohol and 1/2 lb of CO2. We've determined that we need 0.8 cu ft of CO2 for our 512 cu ft grow room (see above.) Then calculate the size container needed by dividing the size of the grow room by 32. 

512 / 32 = 16 gallons. (A tall kitchen garbage can would make a good 16 gal. bin)

Assuming that the bin will produce half alcohol and half CO2, the bin will consume .16 lbs of sugar every four hours, which is roughly 1 lb per day. This means that about 45 lbs of sugar will be used over 6 weeks (assuming that not all sugar is completely converted to alcohol). 

To get the process started, mix a pinch of yeast, 12 ounces of warm water and a half-cup of sugar and keep warm and covered until bubbles form in a day or so. Use this mixture to inoculate the main bin. 

To create a yeast bin mix, dissolve 3 lbs of sugar per gallon of boiling water. Cool the mix to 80°F before adding the yeast. Locate a container with a tightly fitting lid. The lid should be equipped with a hose to direct CO2 gas towards a fan for distribution into the space. Increased air pressure in the bin will force the gas out of the hose. 

Both canister and lid should be thoroughly cleaned with hot soapy water and rinsed well before use. Start off the bin a little more than half full (10 gallons of water and 30 lbs of sugar). Every week, add another gallon of water and 3 lbs of sugar. The yeast bin must remain at 80-85°F for the reaction to continue.

To monitor activity and prevent contaminants from entering the bin, create a fermentation lock by placing the end of the hose into a glass of distilled water. The bubbling water will be an indicator that there is still a reaction in the bin and prevent bacteria from entering the bin through the hose.

Our bin will need to be completely replenished every 6 weeks, or when the bubbling slows. A simple taste test will tell if the bin needs replenishing. If the taste is sweet, there is still sugar in the water and the reaction should continue. If the taste is dry like wine, the bin is mostly alcohol and should be replenished. Some growers preserve a cup of liquid from the old bin and use to inoculate the new bin, however if an infestation is starting to occur, this can contaminate an otherwise fresh bin with bacteria. It's just as easy to inoculate with new yeast as above, and extra yeast stores easily in the refrigerator for months. Corn sugar (available at wine making shops) is a less expensive fermentation medium than regular cane sugar. Other fermentation mediums can be used depending on materials cheaply and readily available to the grower. Corn syrup, maple sap, even old fruit juice can be fermented, although with increased odors and more waste cleanup when the bin is refreshed.

Advantages
-Easy to create with simple materials
-No safety dangers
-Inexpensive materials when purchased in bulk (sugar)
-Ethyl alcohol byproduct can be siphoned off and burned in alcohol lamps for supplemental CO2 enrichment

Disadvantages
-Difficult to regulate
-Fermentation can produce odors
-Large yeast bins are heavy and hard to move.

Dry Ice

Dry ice is nothing but carbon dioxide in its solid form. Dry ice is commercially available nearly everywhere for industrial, medical, and theatrical (fog machine) applications. One pound of dry ice is equal to 8.5 cubic feet of gaseous CO2. Create a CO2 chamber by poking holes in the sides and top of an insulated box, foam cooler, or similar container that can insulate the material from human skin and plants. The box also helps insulate the solid ice so that it vaporizes more slowly. Ideally it should take an entire day for the chunk of ice to vaporize, although smaller chunks may need to be added at intervals through the day to maintain 1500 ppm.

Some growers place their containers of dry ice directly over grow lights. The falling CO2 bathes the plants beneath them and also helps control temperatures from hot lights.

For our 512 CF grow room, about 1 lb of dry ice per day would be needed to keep CO2 at 1500 ppm. At $.60/lb, dry ice would be a very cost effective solution. Storage of dry ice in a home freezer will slow it's vaporization, but dry ice is hard to store ahead because doesn't have a long shelf life. Not many homes have freezers capable of maintaining -109°F.

Advantages
-Inexpensive, widely available material
-Easy to construct and maintain
-No risk of catastrophic failure
-Dry ice has slight cooling effect

Disadvantages
-Impossible to regulate evaporation
-Must be used immediately - has no shelf life
-Can harm skin if handled without gloves.

Soda/Acid

Baking soda and acetic acid solution, such as white vinegar (5% acetic acid), will bubble and foam when mixed. The bubbles produced are carbon dioxide. Unfortunately, large quantities of materials are required to produce carbon dioxide adequate for enrichment, making this solution viable only for very small closet grows.

To produce 1 lb of CO2 every day for our 512 cu ft test grow room, we would need to mix about 2 lbs (1.91 to be exact) of baking soda with 3.25 gallons of 5% acetic acid vinegar. As you can see, the costs for baking soda and vinegar would add up quickly. For a small closet or cabinet operation, it may be a workable solution though. A small drip setup can be placed on a top shelf of the closet, with the CO2 cascading down onto the plants (so long as it's not sucked out by vent fans).

Mixture of appropriate amounts of vinegar and baking soda will quickly fill a small room to acceptable enrichment levels. From there, a simple drip irrigation system can be created to steadily regulate CO2 levels, using a reservoir of white vinegar suspended over a tub of baking soda. A hose with a small pinhole is a good way to create a steady regulated drip. Calibrate the drip with a pushpin or small nail until the hole allows the desired amount of vinegar to drip through in a 24 hour period. An added bonus to this method comes from baking soda's odor neutralizing effect when left open to the air.

For slightly larger operations, 1 lb of carbon dioxide can be created from 2 lbs of baking soda and 1/2 gal of 33% muriatic acid, which is an chemical additive used in swimming pools. Although this is more cost effective, it is still more expensive than some of the other methods mentioned. Muriatic acid (a.k.a hydrochloric acid) is also highly caustic which can cause serious chemical burns if mishandled. 
There are commercially available machines which produce CO2 this way, by mixing baking soda with muriatic acid using mechanized agitators. These units do not have regulators, solenoids, or pressurized compartments to store gas during the off cycle. Any jug made from plastic that can withstand a caustic material such as muriatic acid would be equally effective.

Advantages
-Easy to set up with simple, readily available materials.
-No risk of catastrophic failure
-Slight odor control benefit from baking soda.

Disadvantages
-Difficult to regulate during off cycle
-Can take a long time to build up a proper CO2 enrichment
-Materials can be expensive over time unless purchased in bulk.
-Some chemicals can be caustic.

Breathing

The natural breathing of air by people is also a way to contribute carbon dioxide to an enclosed space. Some quick calculations show that one person breathing can actually provide a significant amount of CO2. Although the total lung capacity is approximately 7 liters, the natural tidal volume (each normal breath at resting) is about .5 liter (5000 cubic centimeters) per breath.

To convert cc to cubic feet, multiply by 3.531 x 10^-5

0.00003531 x 5000 = 0.17655 cubic feet of air

Since each breath made at a rest is 5% carbon dioxide:

0.17655 cu ft air x .05 = .0088275 cu ft of carbon dioxide

And since a person breathes approximately 14 times per minute at rest:

.008275 x 14 = 0.123 cubic feet of CO2 per minute.

Our room requires 0.8 cubic feet of CO2 to reach 1500 ppm, which it will attain after only 6.5 minutes of normal breathing. However, that enrichment is quickly absorbed by the plants. Assuming that we require 1 lb (8.5 cu ft) of CO2 per day for our 512 cu ft grow room:

8.5 cu ft / 0.123 cu ft per minute = 69.1 minutes

Thus to enrich our room to 1500 ppm day, one average sized person would need to spend approximately 70 minutes per day in the grow room assuming the room was completely sealed. Spending this much time at once could elevate carbon dioxide to unhealthful levels, but several stops in the grow room spaced out during the day (perhaps 35 minutes in the morning and 35 minutes in the evening) would keep CO2 concentrations elevated to optimal levels.

Of all the methods mentioned, breathing for CO2 enrichment is free and requires no special tools, additives, equipment, or skills. Breathing produces no unhealthful byproducts or hazards. Most gardeners spend a good amount of time in a grow area looking over the plants for bugs/disease, pruning them, mixing nutrients, admiring, etc. Entry to the room should minimize CO2 loss, through an airlock for example. As long as the space is well sealed and the air is vigorously circulated, normal breathing could produce all the C02 needed to enrich a small to medium sized room if it's visited and tended daily. One of the other supplemental methods can make up for times the gardener is away from the room for extended periods oftime. Working in any enclosed space requires caution and alertness to avoid asphyxiation.

Advantages
-Requires no tools, equipment, or setup
-Free
-Byproduct of being in the garden working

Disadvantages
-Multiple stops into the garden daily are required
-Slight risk of asphyxiation from being in an enclosed space too long
-Entry to room without an airlock will eliminate any gains.

Cost & Security Benefits of CO2 Enrichment

Plants in a CO2 rich environment can withstand and need much higher temperatures to derive any benefit. Inversely, CO2 enrichment can help mitigate ventilation and air conditioning challenges in grow rooms, common challenges faced by growers looking to minimize costs and maximize security.

Ventilation to the outdoors is a weak link in any secure grow operation. Exhaust to the outdoors can be detected by close neighbors, especially for growers in townhomes and apartment complexes. In many areas, a tip from a neighbor and detectable smell to the local constable or sheriff could constitute "probable cause" to get a search warrant. CO2 enrichment eliminates the need for excessive exhaust and thus the need for this breach in your security.

The primary operating cost of a residential grow operation is electricity. Reliance on high intensity discharge lights, fans, humidifiers, and pumps for hydroponic systems can nearly double a residential electric bill. Cooling a hot grow area to 75-80°F for normal growing adds another important but potentially expensive challenge. In many older homes, this could require additional electrical circuits, since each standard (15 amp) residential circuit should only power devices totaling about 1500 watts. CO2 enrichment eliminates the need for additional cooling above what's needed to maintain 95°F. 

Notes & Warnings

CO2 is widely considered to be a "greenhouse gas", which is thought to be responsible for trapping the sun's radiation in the atmosphere and causing global warming. Commercially available CO2 is the by-product of industrial applications which reclaim gas that would have escaped into the atmosphere anyway. CO2 produced from combustion, fermentation or other means further increases the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, albeit minutely. Enrichment with reclaimed CO2 is a more environmentally responsible method, however it is also the most expensive and logistically difficult.

Although CO2 is not a deadly gas, it's presence in an enclosed space can deplete the atmosphere of oxygen needed for human occupation, causing asphyxiation. Signs of asphyxiation include weakness, lethargy, dizziness and loss of consciousness. If a grower notices any of these signs for any reason, immediately leave the room and go to a safe space. If these signs then subside, the CO2 in the grow room is too highly concentrated and should be vented immediately.

Many of the methods described in this guide can be harmful or fatal if used improperly. The grower should use extreme caution when using any volatile compound, flame, or hazardous material. Consider emergency situations when designing your system. For instance, bottled gasses will explode or become deadly missiles when punctured or heated by fire. Fuel vapors in the atmosphere can explode suddenly from electrical arcs, open flames, even static electricity. Asphyxiation resulting in unconsciousness and death can occur quickly when a room is over-enriched. If you suspect any form of danger, get to safety first. No plant, CO2 system, or even a whole house is worth a human life.
"The greatest service which can be rendered to any country is to add a useful plant to its culture"
-Thomas Jefferson


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## WeJuana (Oct 19, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> I just found that article somewhere, since you are getting into c02 I thought you would enjoy reading it... also I wonder, how much c02 is wasted when you have a inline fan going nonstop to keep the temps down?



Very nice post man! I appreciate the read!

I plugged the fans into the timers, so they will now only be running when the lights are on instead of 24/7 as I was running them before.


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## maxpesh (Oct 19, 2011)

@ WeJuana. That blackstar 900 looks amazing, I spoke to ?Sean at gotham and he told me that if you use a light mover , that 900 watter will actually cover a 4ft X 10ft area. All from only 518 watts of power draw OMG !!!!!!!!! Also spoke to someone else and their 900 was at one of the trade shows earlier this year and it blew away the Stealth Grow SHO1200watt by something like 30% more PAR. But getting back to that 4ft x10ft area, if that is true, can u imagine how many grams/watt could be theoretically achievable !


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## Endur0xX (Oct 19, 2011)

second paragraph : Photosynthesis stops at night, thus plants do not use CO2 during the night, or lights-out stage. Although enrichment of the atmosphere during the night cycle will not harm the plants, efficient CO2 systems are regulated so that when the lights go out, CO2 emissions stop. 

later: Studies have shown optimal growth and yields at 90-95°F, 1,500 ppm CO2, 45-50% relative humidity, 7,500-10,000 lumens/square foot of light,

later: in vegetative growth rooms, the fans and enrichment would need alternating cycles to make enrichment worthwhile.

That is why I was asking about the fan... it's sounds like c02 at night is a waste, one thing though is they say that when you have 1500ppm, the plants like higher temps like 90-95 f ... with you running LEDs you might even have to get a heater!!! So to me it sounds like you would be better off running your fan at night as much as you want, and only 15-20min every 3 hours or whatever during light time to make sure you dont waste so much c02 ... who knows maybe the fan shouldnt go at all during day time with that setup ... it's not like you have heat to deal with!!

EDIT: If I was to spend about 500$ on a full c02 setup, I think I would make huge effort to keep the temps high and the humidity at 45-50, sounds like it's totally worth it!!!


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## KawiZZR (Oct 19, 2011)

Noticed that in Cammie's fancy chart she claims the light draws 500w, but when you tested the unit it was 334w. Was this addressed this when she contacted you? I could see people being pretty pissed if they bought a light that claimed to pull 500w but only pulled around 2/3 of that. At least with Blackstar everyone knows that the light only draws 2/3 the advertised wattage and their price reflects that.


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## WeJuana (Oct 19, 2011)

@maxpesh - Light movers are definitely the way to go to increase footprint with LED! I'll have to look into those, I didnt know they carred em 
@Endur0 - Im planning to leave the PPM4 on and let it do its thing during both day and night when I get it to see how long a bottle of CO2 lasts, and then I will adjust accordingly if necessary and if it seems like its getting used quickly.
@KawiZZR - I apologize for that! It seems like she sent me the wrong chart! That chart is for the 336X-Pro, I am using the regular 336X. I just glanced at the stats so I didn't realize it was for the different model until you pointed it out. Ill see if I cant get the correct chart and post it. Sorry again for not checking the info more thoroughly before I posted it!


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## puffenuff (Oct 19, 2011)

KawiZZR said:


> Noticed that in Cammie's fancy chart she claims the light draws 500w, but when you tested the unit it was 334w. Was this addressed this when she contacted you? I could see people being pretty pissed if they bought a light that claimed to pull 500w but only pulled around 2/3 of that. At least with Blackstar everyone knows that the light only draws 2/3 the advertised wattage and their price reflects that.


You'll notice the chart says that data is for the 3w version. Wejuana has the 1w version which draws around 300w...claims are consistent with what is being advertised on their website.


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## WeJuana (Oct 19, 2011)

*Blackstar 500*





Bud Site:






*Spectra 300*





Bud Site:






*Penetrator 336X*





Bud Site:


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## kush groove (Oct 19, 2011)

looking good....the blackstar seems to be slightly ahead, but that doesnt mean much right now......great job


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## WeJuana (Oct 19, 2011)

kush groove said:


> looking good....the blackstar seems to be slightly ahead, but that doesnt mean much right now......great job


Thanks! Yeah at this point the Blackstar plant has more developed looking bud sites, but as you said, at this point it doesn't mean too much.


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## WeJuana (Oct 19, 2011)

[video=youtube;bcJXicR73XQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcJXicR73XQ[/video]​


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## Endur0xX (Oct 19, 2011)

do you think the LEDs make the plants grow with red stems? as if they were stress or something? or it's just the light making it look like that?


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## WeJuana (Oct 19, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> do you think the LEDs make the plants grow with red stems? as if they were stress or something? or it's just the light making it look like that?


To be honest I am not too sure. In my past LA Con grows, I saw red striping throughout the grow on the stems which led me to believe it might be part genetics or even a pheno.






I noticed during the last grow that the healthy fan leaves all had a nice light reddish tinge to the stem when then seemed to be in-taking energy to the plant, and green when there was new growth such as the bottom of stem when rooting or new leaves.






The red is definitely different than the stressed red, as seen on one of the Mag deficient plants.
(GLH's whiter hue shows the deficiency easier than the other LEDs)


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 19, 2011)

leds dont change stem color its genetic, it just really pops in pics cause of color spectrum, theres one thing LED's amaze me for more than anything else, and even if i end up goin plasma someday ill always have an LED panel on hand to diagnose bug and deficiencies as they show up like MAD under the LED coloring, unless your leaves are black under the lights for example your not feedin enough N. You can see spider mite dots like you can see white powder flyin through the air under a black light, fuckin AMAZING how defs and damage shows up under these lights.

lookin good glad to see some action startin up in here on the strength now.


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## KawiZZR (Oct 19, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> @maxpesh - Light movers are definitely the way to go to increase footprint with LED! I'll have to look into those, I didnt know they carred em
> @Endur0 - Im planning to leave the PPM4 on and let it do its thing during both day and night when I get it to see how long a bottle of CO2 lasts, and then I will adjust accordingly if necessary and if it seems like its getting used quickly.
> @KawiZZR - I apologize for that! It seems like she sent me the wrong chart! That chart is for the 336X-Pro, I am using the regular 336X. I just glanced at the stats so I didn't realize it was for the different model until you pointed it out. Ill see if I cant get the correct chart and post it. Sorry again for not checking the info more thoroughly before I posted it!





puffenuff said:


> You'll notice the chart says that data is for the 3w version. Wejuana has the 1w version which draws around 300w...claims are consistent with what is being advertised on their website.


Okay that makes a lot more sense, thanks for clearing that up guys. WeJuana, considering the penetrator you're using has 1w and the others are 3w, how do you see this playing a role later on in the grow? Also, with the differences in lens angles, can you tell by looking at the lights how each footprint is different regarding intensity within the core coverage area and the rest of the tent?


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## WeJuana (Oct 20, 2011)

KawiZZR said:


> Okay that makes a lot more sense, thanks for clearing that up guys. WeJuana, considering the penetrator you're using has 1w and the others are 3w, how do you see this playing a role later on in the grow? Also, with the differences in lens angles, can you tell by looking at the lights how each footprint is different regarding intensity within the core coverage area and the rest of the tent?


Visually I can't really distinguish if the difference in intensities or foot print is due to lenses, wattage, bulbs, size of unit (the Penetrator 336X is about 2 times as big as the Blackstar/GLH, which are basically the same size). They all seem like they can all handle a 4x4 tent though.


----------



## Hollywood33 (Oct 20, 2011)

Just wanted to let you guys know the www.growledhydro.com website is going to be completely redone. A lot of the information on there no longer applies to the new models. It should be updated in the next 3 weeks. The lights sold prior to this test were sold as actual watts, so if you paid for a 500w light you got light with true power draw of 500 watts. The new panels being sold by Spectra LED are powered much lower The panel you see in this test is basically the 500w panel just powered at 450mA pulling 360w, both panels use 252 led's which is what you pay for not the wattage drawn. Ill update you guys when the new site is up.


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## maxpesh (Oct 20, 2011)

It's about time gotham updated their website methinks


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## FMCCNate (Oct 20, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> It's about time gotham updated their website methinks


Agreed, I think a new site would help gem out alot


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## davoswavos (Oct 20, 2011)

Its kinda funny when everyone was hatin on blackstars because they were only drawing about 60% of the wattage labled but maybe they were just ahead of the game a bit and we didn't know it. There's lots of advantages when you don't max out the led diodes.


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## coolj (Oct 20, 2011)

what led light would be a good starter light, that would replace a 2 foot 8 lamp t5, work good in a dr80 31"x31" and still give u ability to flower?


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## WeJuana (Oct 20, 2011)

LA Con clones are only days away from getting potted. 
Vegging for 2 weeks and then into the flower tents!

*Any opinions on which strain to clone next: "Trinity Kush" or "Power Africa?"*


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## organicbynature (Oct 20, 2011)

coolj said:


> what led light would be a good starter light, that would replace a 2 foot 8 lamp t5, work good in a dr80 31"x31" and still give u ability to flower?


Have you seen this thread? Might be a good option for you if you've already got a T5 fixture.

If you want an LED panel, and if by "starter light" you mean something inexpensive but effective, this one is a good option, by all accounts. If you have a little more to spend you could go up to their 500w model.


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## Endur0xX (Oct 20, 2011)

coolj said:


> what led light would be a good starter light, that would replace a 2 foot 8 lamp t5, work good in a dr80 31"x31" and still give u ability to flower?



I am new to LED, so dont blame me for your bad decision!!! I think this one is a good starter  http://www.advancedledlights.com/3w-led-grow-lights/new-diamond-series-leds-extreme-3w-led-technology/


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## WeJuana (Oct 20, 2011)

coolj said:


> what led light would be a good starter light, that would replace a 2 foot 8 lamp t5, work good in a dr80 31"x31" and still give u ability to flower?


I would recommend the 240w Blackstar High Output if you are looking for something priced for someone entry level that can go seed/clone through flower for a 31"x31" area.
Personally I think a Blackstar 500w may be a little much for an area that size.. but again that's merely my opinion.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 20, 2011)

this is because they are now doing v2 and v3 models with 3w led's versus the single watt diodes, so now they have switched to the typical led manufacturer rating of rating panels at 3w multiplied by # of total diodes, to get the wattage rating, to get actual wattage draw your going to now have to ask what the diodes are driven too. =(



Hollywood33 said:


> Just wanted to let you guys know the www.growledhydro.com website is going to be completely redone. A lot of the information on there no longer applies to the new models. It should be updated in the next 3 weeks. The lights sold prior to this test were sold as actual watts, so if you paid for a 500w light you got light with true power draw of 500 watts. The new panels being sold by Spectra LED are powered much lower The panel you see in this test is basically the 500w panel just powered at 450mA pulling 360w, both panels use 252 led's which is what you pay for not the wattage drawn. Ill update you guys when the new site is up.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 20, 2011)

240 is going to be absolutely TITS for this size space, a 500 would fuckin decimate in there but just would be overkill, i'd buy 2 240's and cram em into that space before i'd buy a single 500 and cram it in there, more actual draw watts for less$ than a 500 and more surface area coverage.



WeJuana said:


> I would recommend the 240w Blackstar High Output if you are looking for something priced for someone entry level that can go seed/clone through flower for a 31"x31" area.
> Personally I think a Blackstar 500w may be a little much for an area that size.. but again that's merely my opinion.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Oct 20, 2011)

this is very true davo's ive been a proponent of blackstar since almost their inception. They've never done me wrong, sure there are some better panels out there but for the $ you cant beat em. Lets take the american auto industry and sports cars for example we have the corvette, look at europe they have say lets use a gt3 911 as a basis, thats a 130+k car in cost, the corvette is only 50k or so. Sure the gt3 may edge the vette out in quality such as leather instead of plastic but really functionality comes down to be pretty damn near the same, with luxury being a totally different class. Whats more important, the leather, or smoking the shit out of the guy at the stop light next to you for 100K less than he paid. lol. See my point. Ill take a blackstar generally over any other panel until they can prove the price difference is worth it to me in performance.


davoswavos said:


> Its kinda funny when everyone was hatin on blackstars because they were only drawing about 60% of the wattage labled but maybe they were just ahead of the game a bit and we didn't know it. There's lots of advantages when you don't max out the led diodes.


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## puffenuff (Oct 20, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> LA Con clones are only days away from getting potted.
> Vegging for 2 weeks and then into the flower tents!
> 
> *Any opinions on which strain to clone next: "Trinity Kush" or "Power Africa?"*


LA Con is already one of my favorites so I'm looking forward to seeing that! Depends what you want to go with...Trinity Kush is heavy indica dominant and Power Africa is somewhat sativa dominant...think flowering time is about the same though, 8-9 weeks or so. Both should be good yielders. Personally, I'd do some of each.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 20, 2011)

mmmm smeeeeeesh i like that idea, puff lol, go take a peak at my micro grow i just updated it.


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## coolj (Oct 20, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> this is very true davo's ive been a proponent of blackstar since almost their inception. They've never done me wrong, sure there are some better panels out there but for the $ you cant beat em. Lets take the american auto industry and sports cars for example we have the corvette, look at europe they have say lets use a gt3 911 as a basis, thats a 130+k car in cost, the corvette is only 50k or so. Sure the gt3 may edge the vette out in quality such as leather instead of plastic but really functionality comes down to be pretty damn near the same, with luxury being a totally different class. Whats more important, the leather, or smoking the shit out of the guy at the stop light next to you for 100K less than he paid. lol. See my point. Ill take a blackstar generally over any other panel until they can prove the price difference is worth it to me in performance.


How do u feel abt blackstar UFOs?


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## coolj (Oct 20, 2011)

Ok guys put it to a vote The DS100 Or The Blackstar 240 or 2 Blackstar 100 ufos?


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## incognegro999 (Oct 20, 2011)

This is exactly what I was looking for...six months ago before I bought Hid's haha. Getting into the market actually for one of these. My next grow has to not take up my whole walk in closet and not raise my electric a $150 a month. between lights, fans, evaporitive cooler for humidity, that shit gets expensive. Do you think one of those 240's would handle two decent sized plants in a grow tent? possibly complimented with some cfls? I kinda want to just grab one at the start (from seed this time), and then i feel the light seems lacking and I have the extra coin grabbing a second. Also how hot does it get? Will I be fine just jamming a filter fan combo and exhausting at the top with some passive intakes at the bottom? Sorry for all the questions, its been six months since I looked into leds and you seem to have your setup on point. +rep keep up the updates


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## WeJuana (Oct 20, 2011)

coolj said:


> Ok guys put it to a vote The DS100 Or The Blackstar 240 or 2 Blackstar 100 ufos?


Blackstar 240w any day! 3w's over 2w's!! Call Gotham and talk to them and I am sure they would recommend the same thing. 
I was originally looking to buy the more expensive 600w light but I was told the 500w with the 3w bulbs was the way to go.


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## WeJuana (Oct 20, 2011)

incognegro999 said:


> This is exactly what I was looking for...six months ago before I bought Hid's haha. Getting into the market actually for one of these. My next grow has to not take up my whole walk in closet and not raise my electric a $150 a month. between lights, fans, evaporitive cooler for humidity, that shit gets expensive. Do you think one of those 240's would handle two decent sized plants in a grow tent? possibly complimented with some cfls? I kinda want to just grab one at the start (from seed this time), and then i feel the light seems lacking and I have the extra coin grabbing a second. Also how hot does it get? Will I be fine just jamming a filter fan combo and exhausting at the top with some passive intakes at the bottom? Sorry for all the questions, its been six months since I looked into leds and you seem to have your setup on point. +rep keep up the updates


I have grown in closets with no ventilation with a 240w and gotten away with just a regular oscillating fan blowing the air out, so you wouldn't even necessarily need any expensive venting setup, especially if you have a vent coming in with fresh air.

What size space are you working with? Considering the plants are only 2 ft or so tall when you start flower I think a 240w should be more than good for 2 plants!


----------



## incognegro999 (Oct 20, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I have grown in closets with no ventilation with a 240w and gotten away with just a regular oscillating fan blowing the air out, so you wouldn't even necessarily need any expensive venting setup, especially if you have a vent coming in with fresh air.
> 
> What size space are you working with? Considering the plants are only 2 ft or so tall when you start flower I think a 240w should be more than good for 2 plants!


Prolly 2x2 or a 2x3 tent. I currently have a 4x4 and thats just too damn big for my space. I hope to be able to vent right into the closet (Already have a 400cfm fan and filter, which is difeinitly needed to keep world from knowing about my garden haha) and just put a little passive vent in the bottom of the closet door. On my hid grow temperatures would routinely hit crazy levels, I was venting from the tent piped to the bedroom the closet was on. I also had to run a fan from inside the closet sucking air into it. Even still I would have to open the bedroom to even the temps out, and that looks strange where I live in the middle of Dec haha. Heat from Hid closet grows is unreal, not really a good idea unless you can echaust that shit to outside the walls of wherever your growing. Oh well first grow lesson learned haha.


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## WeJuana (Oct 20, 2011)

incognegro999 said:


> Prolly 2x2 or a 2x3 tent. I currently have a 4x4 and thats just too damn big for my space. I hope to be able to vent right into the closet (Already have a 400cfm fan and filter, which is difeinitly needed to keep world from knowing about my garden haha) and just put a little passive vent in the bottom of the closet door. On my hid grow temperatures would routinely hit crazy levels, I was venting from the tent piped to the bedroom the closet was on. I also had to run a fan from inside the closet sucking air into it. Even still I would have to open the bedroom to even the temps out, and that looks strange where I live in the middle of Dec haha. Heat from Hid closet grows is unreal, not really a good idea unless you can exhaust that shit to outside the walls of wherever your growing. Oh well first grow lesson learned haha.


Yeah you should be golden with a 240 in a 2x3!


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## WeJuana (Oct 20, 2011)

Shroomz said:


> i have a crystal ball i can see the future
> 
> THEY ALL SUCK VS HPS
> 
> ...


You have crystal alright haha. Go hit your high temp pipe.

I'm not advertising anything except my grow results those interested. Thanks for stopping by lol.


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## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

PS > This troll is apparently from "autoflower network" -- whatever that is. Way to represent lol.



Shroomz said:


> consider yourslef banned from autoflower network hoss we got tired of your ads for hydroponicshut there as well
> 
> sellout scrub cunt


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## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

Shroomz said:


> you must be refreshing the pages every 5 secs anytime anyone states the truth your in to defend 10 secs later
> 
> what is lol?? i dont speak nerd you fat fuck
> 
> ...


lol actually I happened to be on the forum, but all anyone has to do is check all 11 of your posts any anyone can clearly see your just trolling LED grows shitting on the thread with your opinion, but the great part about opinions are we are all entitled to our own.

Call me what you wish, but at no point in this grow am I trying to convince anyone to buy an LED, but merely showing my results using them. 

Wishing the DEA kicks someones door in is definitely the way to get on the side of the people on a marijuana forum though. Thanks for stopping by again


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## incognegro999 (Oct 21, 2011)

Very angry gentlemen with 11 posts lol.. I see with 6 months of absence on the forums Led bashing is till going strong.


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## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

Shroomz said:


> you will find most people wishing you fly by night led scammers to get a taste of the shit we have had to put up with for years call it karma for the people you rip
> 
> the amount of led fail grows the false advertising , fake grow comps , fake diarys and sellout mag articles on led to sell these junk to newbies out number the postive theads by 99.95%
> 
> you can sing your 100% legit till the cows come home an your blue in tha face , the truth will be shown at the end of your fake grow show and then you can vanish back under your rock


You seem to be delusional. Your claiming to be a victim, because your an LED user, logically making other LED users too. So I am a victim according to you, yet you say "the people you rip off" referring to me, being an LED user. So are LED users an enemy? or a victim? or both? lol.

You seem to act as if I am publicizing these massive yield results I never actually got, when I am simply showing results, and all you are giving is vague general claims. If the lights don't work as you say then that will show in the results, right? So then theoretically you should be encouraging me if you feel I will fail, so I look like a joke that spent a lot of money on products that don't work.

This is pretty entertaining right now, so please respond quickly so I can continue to further dissect your logic.


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## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

What business is that? haha. Thanks for the heads up.

Let's hope the courts still acknowledge the Constitutional rights here in the USA.

10th Amendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

And since you are speaking of legal matters, I would also like to point out the fact laws actually do not apply to humans, but only to entities (which I am not) under maritime admiralty law.

Do you care to inform me of anything else you feel I need to know Shroomz?


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## caveman2k11 (Oct 21, 2011)

can u tell me if this LED light would be worth buying, as i use to have a 600 watt hps i thought i would have a go at LED. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Panel-Hydroponic-Grow-Lamp-Light-Board-/200634999957?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item2eb6c72495


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## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

[video=youtube;F35hYDwKqOY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F35hYDwKqOY[/video]
Added a CO2 setup. I went with the CAP PPM-4 automated controller/monitor. 
It both monitors and maintains CO2 levels at around 1400ppm.​


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## PrezDickie (Oct 21, 2011)

caveman2k11 said:


> can u tell me if this LED light would be worth buying, as i use to have a 600 watt hps i thought i would have a go at LED. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Panel-Hydroponic-Grow-Lamp-Light-Board-/200634999957?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item2eb6c72495


Caveman, i wouldn't put down any real money on lights with 1 watt LED's there are many decent lights out there keep on looking


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## Endur0xX (Oct 21, 2011)

caveman2k11 said:


> can u tell me if this LED light would be worth buying, as i use to have a 600 watt hps i thought i would have a go at LED. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Panel-Hydroponic-Grow-Lamp-Light-Board-/200634999957?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item2eb6c72495



I wouldnt buy this light caveman... in my opinion, it's better to buy a 180w LED with 3w single chip diodes than a 300w 1w diode! 

Shroomz, thanks for the entertainment this morning, I hope you dont come again... I am looking forward to see the result of my own grow with the LEDs, ... I know I am not corrupt!!! 

 Peace


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## FMCCNate (Oct 21, 2011)

I love when people who used .5 watt eBay led panels like 5 years ago come on this forum and bash LEDs cause they are to stupid to do a little research before buying something. Not to mention things have Changed alot In five years, do you still use your nintendo to play video games or did you buy a xbox 360.


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## davoswavos (Oct 21, 2011)

It's nice to see less trolls and more pro led folk these days.


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## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

caveman2k11 said:


> can u tell me if this LED light would be worth buying, as i use to have a 600 watt hps i thought i would have a go at LED. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Panel-Hydroponic-Grow-Lamp-Light-Board-/200634999957?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item2eb6c72495


I will only recommend lights which I have had personal experience with, and unfortunately I have no experience with that light. 
I would stay try to steer clear of 1w bulbs if you can! Go for 3w, they seem to make quite the difference in growth!


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## coolj (Oct 21, 2011)

Ok guys i pulled the trigger on the 240 UV, Victor seems Legit.


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## coolj (Oct 21, 2011)

Im thinkin abt buying the secret jardin DP90 36"w 24"deep 24" tall and tossing 2 black star UFOs in it, What do u think? would this be overkill, would the light be to intense ?


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## hoss12781 (Oct 21, 2011)

I've used 1w diodes, you'll see better results with 3w for sure. The post lists the lumens @ 10,880 (I know lumens aren't the end all be all of measuring grow lights, but a good indicator of intensity). The 180w chipset (3w diodes) light I'm using puts out 9800 lumens. Its more expensive to produce the higher wattage diodes but they really do make a difference. I've had 1,2, & 3w units. There is a reason I ditched my 1 & 2w units. While I have not used the light in the posting I'm very confident any 2011 model 3w unit from a any of the companies listed in this thread will put that light to shame.


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## hippy132 (Oct 21, 2011)

hoss12781 said:


> I've found I had to add more Cal Mag Plus to my led plants compared to the amount necessary for my hps/mh plants. I've spoken to other led growers who shared the same observation.


How can you be sure its a mag deficiency.


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## hippy132 (Oct 21, 2011)

I have the GLH 180 V2 's and have slowly moved down to 24 inches, expect to get closer


hoss12781 said:


> I keep mine 10 inches in veg 7-8 in flower anything closer bleaches like crazy.


----------



## coolj (Oct 21, 2011)

Im a diehard HPS guy, but because of heat issues and u guys i bought the 240UV blackstarr and so begins my led path, im really geeked up abt not having heat issues or bulb replacements and a lower Electric bill


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## hoss12781 (Oct 21, 2011)

coolj said:


> Im thinkin abt buying the secret jardin DP90 36"w 24"deep 24" tall and tossing 2 black star UFOs in it, What do u think? would this be overkill, would the light be to intense ?


no it won't. It would be a great addition to the panel. UFOs are super easy to hang at an angle. Work out a way to have them blast the sides or at least sit on a 45 degree angle. With that space you could def get away with two of their 50w units. If you're considering the 100w - that one might cause some bleaching late in flowering on a bushy plant. Never used blackstars, but have used 1 and 2w diode ufos as side lighting with much success.

When you get your rig up - post it up. We need more led grow journals on this site!


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## hoss12781 (Oct 21, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> How can you be sure its a mag deficiency.


The color of the leaves compared to pictures of documented mag def. That and adding more cal mag fixed the issue.


----------



## jubiare (Oct 21, 2011)

caveman2k11 said:


> can u tell me if this LED light would be worth buying, as i use to have a 600 watt hps i thought i would have a go at LED. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Panel-Hydroponic-Grow-Lamp-Light-Board-/200634999957?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item2eb6c72495


I woiuldn't buy that amigos. If you are in the uk, look at what this guy is doing: plantphotonics.com (there is numerous grows on the net that shows those lights are legit, a bit expensive though). Other that that, I wouldn't recomend you any uk seller as far as I know. You could think about buying from USA paying in dollars, don't be put off too much by buying overseas. Or you can look at EU, evo50/70/90 grow led or led-kweeklamp-specialist.nl (they are solid too)


----------



## Heretic (Oct 21, 2011)

coolj said:


> Im a diehard HPS guy, but because of heat issues and u guys i bought the 240UV blackstarr and so begins my led path, im really geeked up abt not having heat issues or bulb replacements and a lower Electric bill


Do you have a link to the 240UV? Haven't heard of that one.


----------



## Endur0xX (Oct 21, 2011)

hoss12781 said:


> no it won't. It would be a great addition to the panel. UFOs are super easy to hang at an angle. Work out a way to have them blast the sides or at least sit on a 45 degree angle. With that space you could def get away with two of their 50w units. If you're considering the 100w - that one might cause some bleaching late in flowering on a bushy plant. Never used blackstars, but have used 1 and 2w diode ufos as side lighting with much success.
> 
> When you get your rig up - post it up. We need more led grow journals on this site!


I m just about 10 days away from starting an LED journal! I was gonna have both grow in the same journal but since there is an intestest for LED journals, I ll make one. I am only waiting for the Fero 180 4G... not sure how I am gonna use the lights yet but the UFOs are brighter than expected, I got a red and a blue! here is what it's gonna look like!



it looks like the light in the bedroom was turned off coze the dresser is so damn bright!!!

Now my screen will be about 12 inches away from the lights, I am worry about bleaching in flowering so I might put the Fero in the right corner at a 45 degree angle or something!


----------



## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> How can you be sure its a mag deficiency.


The green on the veins with yellowing in between and red stems on the fan leaves. Also rust colored spots is also a sign.


----------



## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

budman013 said:


> what was the problem that you encountered with eBay UFOs?


Ebay UFOs weren't very practical for growing cannabis. I could tell a major difference between the Blackstar 240w and the 2 UFO's which I used for side lighting, which prompted me to sell the UFO's and purchase another 240w, atleast at first.


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## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

Heretic said:


> Do you have a link to the 240UV? Haven't heard of that one.


http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/featured-products/blackstar-240w-led-grow-light-3w-cree.html


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## Endur0xX (Oct 21, 2011)

yes I guess I got ripped off with my NEW - Diamond Series LEDs - Extreme 3w LED Technology... 400$ with shipping for a 100w! How long has the blackstar 240 been for sale at 279!? mine was 295$... I guess there is 11+ Wavelengths of Color Output in the diamond...


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## surgedup (Oct 21, 2011)

Great grow man I been on here for a awhile back when blackstars first started. Whoever says blackstars wont flower are crazy iI pretty much perfectted my setup I have 2 240w flower blackstars and a 300w chinese led panel. The best I ever did with my setup was more than 2 ounces dry on 1 plant in 1 gallons ! people said I was full of it but if you check my post I had pictures . Now im pulling just shy a half a pound with my setup with about 3 plants one in a 3 gallon and 2 in a 2 gallon pots im using AN and molasses. I use to just use no name nutes at home depot im using promix hp great stuff could use a little more soil mix tends to dry quick. Anyway great job man keep it going !


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## WeJuana (Oct 21, 2011)

@Endur0 - Not too sure, as I haven't used a Diamond series before, but the Blackstar seems to definitely be better priced for the wattage (3w bulbs and around 135w actual draw)
@surgedup - Thanks for the encouragement!


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## Heretic (Oct 22, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/featured-products/blackstar-240w-led-grow-light-3w-cree.html


Ah, its the new flower model. Thanks.


----------



## WeJuana (Oct 22, 2011)

Grow LED Hydro
Spectra 300





Bud Site:






Hydro Grow LED
Penetrator 336X





Bud Site:






Lighthouse Hydro
Blackstar 500





Bud Site:


----------



## cannawizard (Oct 22, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Grow LED Hydro
> Spectra 300
> 
> 
> ...


**cool updates, keep it green  good work~

--cheers


----------



## WeJuana (Oct 22, 2011)

cannawizard said:


> **cool updates, keep it green  good work~
> 
> --cheers


Thank you kindly!


----------



## sm0k4 (Oct 22, 2011)

surgedup said:


> Great grow man I been on here for a awhile back when blackstars first started. Whoever says blackstars wont flower are crazy iI pretty much perfectted my setup I have 2 240w flower blackstars and a 300w chinese led panel. The best I ever did with my setup was more than 2 ounces dry on 1 plant in 1 gallons ! people said I was full of it but if you check my post I had pictures . Now im pulling just shy a half a pound with my setup with about 3 plants one in a 3 gallon and 2 in a 2 gallon pots im using AN and molasses. I use to just use no name nutes at home depot im using promix hp great stuff could use a little more soil mix tends to dry quick. Anyway great job man keep it going !


Link? I've been compiling some info on these LED retailers. Would like to see these pics with 2.5oz. per plant on LED.


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## sm0k4 (Oct 22, 2011)

Looking good WeJuana. My bet is on the Spectra. Although I've seen reports of the 2011 models not being as good as 2010. It is discussed here.


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## Endur0xX (Oct 22, 2011)

Are you feeling like you are wasting money doing this experiment? I mean, since you are not scrogging you could probably have at least 2 plants per tent without affecting the yield of each plant and get double harvest out of the setup? Or since it's only day 10 you are expecting them do get much bigger still? dont get me wrong, I like the experiment!!! just wondering


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## Endur0xX (Oct 22, 2011)

I just set my UFOs in my main room as supplemental lights until I finish the dresser... Can I leave the LEDs on for 20hours? I read somewhere 16 is about the max you want to leave your LEDs on, is that true?


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## puffenuff (Oct 22, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> yes I guess I got ripped off with my NEW - Diamond Series LEDs - Extreme 3w LED Technology... 400$ with shipping for a 100w! How long has the blackstar 240 been for sale at 279!? mine was 295$... I guess there is 11+ Wavelengths of Color Output in the diamond...


I have two panels from advanced and im very happy...never once have I felt ripped off.


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## Endur0xX (Oct 22, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I have two panels from advanced and im very happy...never once have I felt ripped off.


Good to know!! I am not worry about the quality of the light... I just started to think I could have gotten twice the wattage for the same price with blackstar! I didnt know about 3w chip until I got on their website and that is what sold the light, so I couldnt resist!!

you know the answer to my question anyway, can you leave LED lights on for like 20hours no problem? thx


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## KnockWood (Oct 22, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I have two panels from advanced and im very happy...never once have I felt ripped off.


 Ditto. I've got two Advanced lights and I haven't a negative thing to say about them... keeping in mind that I'm just finishing my first grow.

I only wish my growing skills were on par with my lights' capabilities!


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## puffenuff (Oct 22, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> Good to know!! I am not worry about the quality of the light... I just started to think I could have gotten twice the wattage for the same price with blackstar! I didnt know about 3w chip until I got on their website and that is what sold the light, so I couldnt resist!!
> 
> you know the answer to my question anyway, can you leave LED lights on for like 20hours no problem? thx


No problem with leaving the lights on that long. I sometimes veg 24/0 and I've done autos under 20/4 most of the cycle. No issues at all, they have very long lifespans and excellent heat dissipation.



KnockWood said:


> Ditto. I've got two Advanced lights and I haven't a negative thing to say about them... keeping in mind that I'm just finishing my first grow.
> 
> I only wish my growing skills were on par with my lights' capabilities!


Glad to see happy advanced customers. Have any pics or journals to view? I always enjoy seeing what others are getting done with the same lights


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## hoss12781 (Oct 22, 2011)

I don't think you got jacked by advanced. Haven't used them but did a lot of research on them. They were on my "I would buy these" list. The blackstars are a bit less expensive yes - but only covered by a 12 mo warranty as opposed to a 36 from advanced. I _read _that older model blackstars - _can't speak from personal experience_ and newer models may have chanced, but heard older models were not using finned heat sinks which could lead to overheating issues later on down the road. The 100w from advance was about $300 right? The blackstar 240 is essentially somewhere around a 130-140w light. Given the warranty alone I wouldn't be upset with your purchase. 

I've been leaving my leds on 23-1 now for a while - its totally safe for the light.


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## maxpesh (Oct 22, 2011)

surgedup said:


> Great grow man I been on here for a awhile back when blackstars first started. Whoever says blackstars wont flower are crazy iI pretty much perfectted my setup I have 2 240w flower blackstars and a 300w chinese led panel. The best I ever did with my setup was more than 2 ounces dry on 1 plant in 1 gallons ! people said I was full of it but if you check my post I had pictures . Now im pulling just shy a half a pound with my setup with about 3 plants one in a 3 gallon and 2 in a 2 gallon pots im using AN and molasses. I use to just use no name nutes at home depot im using promix hp great stuff could use a little more soil mix tends to dry quick. Anyway great job man keep it going !


Where is the link and the pics ?


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## WeJuana (Oct 22, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> Are you feeling like you are wasting money doing this experiment? I mean, since you are not scrogging you could probably have at least 2 plants per tent without affecting the yield of each plant and get double harvest out of the setup? Or since it's only day 10 you are expecting them do get much bigger still? dont get me wrong, I like the experiment!!! just wondering


I don't at all feel like I am wasting money, because knowledge is more valuable to me than having extra pot lying around. I grow not for profit, but for personal use as a patient. 
I have enough to get me by to this harvest, and in the future I should be harvesting perpetually, as the clones are about ready to pot today.

The tents will also start filling one quickly once I start entering in new plants, so the space will be utilized soon enough.

*If you have a comment, feel free to shout it out! No worries Endur0!*


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## WeJuana (Oct 22, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> I just set my UFOs in my main room as supplemental lights until I finish the dresser... Can I leave the LEDs on for 20hours? I read somewhere 16 is about the max you want to leave your LEDs on, is that true?


I've left my LEDs on 24-0 for over a 2 week period without any issue. As long as the light is working properly with the heat sink it shouldn't be a problem.


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## BlazedMonkey (Oct 22, 2011)

Agreed I ran my panel (different brand but 3w) for 24/7 during veg. Make sure you don't exceed your suggested operation temp and it should be fine.


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## WeJuana (Oct 22, 2011)

Putting the LA Con clones into pots.. be back with a picture update shortly.


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## WeJuana (Oct 22, 2011)

*2 weeks of veg and then onto flower. 

I'll be cutting from the Trinity Kush tonight for the next batch of clones.*​


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 22, 2011)

comn along comn along


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## PrezDickie (Oct 22, 2011)

That is a thing of beauty, all your girls in a row... U must be a proud papa. 
Quick question since you've got the L.A. Con have you ever tried Recon? It's some mystery off shoot of the LA. Just wondering if anyone has experience with that strain?


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## WeJuana (Oct 22, 2011)

PrezDickie said:


> That is a thing of beauty, all your girls in a row... U must be a proud papa.
> Quick question since you've got the L.A. Con have you ever tried Recon? It's some mystery off shoot of the LA. Just wondering if anyone has experience with that strain?


Nope, I haven't heard of it yet. Any idea what the special pheno is?


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## coolj (Oct 22, 2011)

KnockWood said:


> Ditto. I've got two Advanced lights and I haven't a negative thing to say about them... keeping in mind that I'm just finishing my first grow.
> 
> I only wish my growing skills were on par with my lights' capabilities!


I like advanced led lights, I think the look slick, Could u post some pics of ur light, what is the coverage like?


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## WeJuana (Oct 22, 2011)

Trinity Kush clones look about dead even (clone in back is becoming a new mother)​


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## WeJuana (Oct 23, 2011)

Time to pull out the macro lens.

Spectra 300 Bud Site:






Blackstar 500 Bud Site:






Penetrator 336X Bud Site:


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## maxpesh (Oct 23, 2011)

Hey WeJuana, all looking good, I'm using 2 of the 500 blackstars but I'm still open minded to all makes and models as long as they do the job without breaking the bank. Was just wondering if you (or anyone else for that matter) had a look at the Growstealth (not Stealthgrow) lights and if there is anyone on here who is using them ? Would greatly appreciate feedback and opinions as their theory on spectrums seems to agree with what I have believed for quite a while, and I think it is the reason why HPS tend to yield a bit more than LED. Peace all . P.S. if anyone has a link to a grow with these growstealth lights could you let me know please ?


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## mr.bond (Oct 23, 2011)

judging from the photos, seems like the Spectra bud doesnt have as many pistils/hairs as the other two... can you confirm or do you see different results up close?

looking great and thanks for the great comparison so far. anxious to see how they turn out!!!

cheers
mr.bond


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## WeJuana (Oct 23, 2011)

@maxpesh - I dont have any experience with those lights. Your mention of them is the first I have heard.
@mr.bond - I would say the Penetrator x and the Spectra look about even, the Blackstar looks a tad ahead. The Spectra has made the most improvement from yesterday to today though.


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## WeJuana (Oct 23, 2011)

[video=youtube;uSZpsZ32Dtg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSZpsZ32Dtg&hd=1[/video]


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## Endur0xX (Oct 23, 2011)

They are all doing so good!! nice flowers after only 11 days, I cannot wait to fire up my dresser with LEDs!! I dont have a favourite yet, they are all nice. Looking forward to see your flowers around Christmas! How long to harvest with this strain^?


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## WeJuana (Oct 23, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> They are all doing so good!! nice flowers after only 11 days, I cannot wait to fire up my dresser with LEDs!! I dont have a favourite yet, they are all nice. Looking forward to see your flowers around Christmas! How long to harvest with this strain^?


Thanks! I just got done mixing their first strong dose of bloom nutes which I will be feeding here in a few hours. 
8-9 weeks.. that makes Dec 7-14 first chop!


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## WeJuana (Oct 24, 2011)

Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


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## maxpesh (Oct 24, 2011)

The difference in the Blackstar from day 11 to 12 is amazing, it's almost unbelievable, well done


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## WeJuana (Oct 24, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> The difference in the Blackstar from day 11 to 12 is amazing, it's almost unbelievable, well done


Thanks! I just fed with the first dose of bloom nutes so the next few days should really be the start of the action.


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## maxpesh (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm in veg stage at the moment but this time going for scrogg LST and seems like the way to go for LED. Under the 500's I'm gonna flower about 12" from canopy, but I've still got another week to 10 days of vegging to do. Anyway,as for your grow it seems like the blackstars at least up to now are turning out to be the best value for money but we shall see. Lots of people watching 
Just watched the video u posted here, looks like the penetrator has got some green Led's in there, interesting as I told Cammie about the presence and advantages of green as a catalyst with blue and red light (article from Oxford journals), told a couple of more companys too about a year ago and I was just brushed off, ha ha


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## smokey mcsmokester (Oct 24, 2011)

Im starting to change my opinion about led,s.....Great job so far man....


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## Endur0xX (Oct 24, 2011)

after looking at it again, I would say now that the Blackstar500 is my favorite, ... the leaves have more pep in them, they are not just hanging there but thriving, we can't see the red stems at all on this one because it is so bushy... it looks like the Spectra is the weakest of them all, is it the light or all the stems are really this red? Do you know the actual wattage output of each light again^? Do you find the soil is drying slowler with the LEDs, making in harder to feed as much as an HID setup?


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## FMCCNate (Oct 24, 2011)

The black star seems to have tighter internodal spacing in the pics is that true or are the bid sites already bigger ?


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## WeJuana (Oct 24, 2011)

FMCCNate said:


> The black star seems to have tighter internodal spacing in the pics is that true or are the bid sites already bigger ?


Yeah the Blackstar sites are a bit bigger at this point. It's still anyone's game but the Blackstar leads at day 12!

Get video updates of this grow on Facebook > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Grow-Big-TV/193359307407102


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## puffenuff (Oct 24, 2011)

Wejuana, can you please speak to each light's respective company as it relates to customer service, ie, friendliness, willingness to answer questions, how long it takes to receive a response to an inquiry, shipping time, etc.? Thanks, much appreciated!


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## WeJuana (Oct 24, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Wejuana, can you please speak to each light's respective company as it relates to customer service, ie, friendliness, willingness to answer questions, how long it takes to receive a response to an inquiry, shipping time, etc.? Thanks, much appreciated!


Yeah definitely! 

I have actually had the pleasure with speaking to Mike of GLH, Cammie of Hydro Grow LED, and both Victor and Sean of Gotham hydroponics.

I would rate all of these companies evenly on the highest levels through all fields, simply because I have not been given any reason by any company to rate negatively.
Packages shipped on time, great helps with explaining the products in lamens terms and making the choice of the best one for my setup, friendly and personal manor every time...

The only delay period, was with an inquiry for Michael of GLH on questions I had about the Spectra, but the delay was expected as his company was moving locations and in the end he answered my questions in person on this thread. 

I hope you find this helpful and experience the same levels of service I did if you choose to make a purchase.


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## coolj (Oct 24, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Yeah definitely!
> 
> I have actually had the pleasure with speaking to Mike of GLH, Cammie of Hydro Grow LED, and both Victor and Sean of Gotham hydroponics.
> 
> ...


wow spectra290s on ebay for 300 all sales final, moving and makin way for new inventory


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## coolj (Oct 24, 2011)

Im liking that blackstar so far  I hope someone does a an led grow battle with the 240 blackstar and a DS100 from advanced, i really would like to see that.


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## WeJuana (Oct 24, 2011)

coolj said:


> wow spectra290s on ebay for 300 all sales final, moving and makin way for new inventory


Wow that's a deal! Hmmm. lol damn you coolj for tempting me!! haha


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## coolj (Oct 24, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Wow that's a deal! Hmmm. lol damn you coolj for tempting me!! haha


 LMAO tempting u, huh its tempting me, But i says at the bottom of the listing "beware of thee low price all sales final"


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## coolj (Oct 24, 2011)

Im waiting on my 240 blackstar, now i wonder is i shoulda waited and got the spectra, also im wondering if i shoulda got the DS100. So confusing..but looking at ur grow that blackstar looks like its the shish.


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## WeJuana (Oct 24, 2011)

coolj said:


> Im waiting on my 240 blackstar, now i wonder is i shoulda waited and got the spectra, also im wondering if i shoulda got the DS100. So confusing..but looking at ur grow that blackstar looks like its the shish.


Either way its a great deal and a great light! 

I think I got something new comin to the garden.. it should be here in a few days.


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## coolj (Oct 24, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Either way its a great deal and a great light!
> 
> Yep, but i wonder if i should growledhydro and find out the particulars abt their ebay auction for that light and pony up the money and buy it. IDK, maybe i will chill and just see what the 240 is like, and go grom there I just dont wanna end up with 4-6 different lights lol. I want to get that 6.5x6.5 Lighthouse tent and hook it up. How would u outfit that size tent?
> 
> I think I got something new comin to the garden.. it should be here in a few days.


U just got to much loot, LOL and having to much fun spending racks like its going out of style. U must have a hook up..share the wealth, who do i need to talk to so i can ball like u


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## coolj (Oct 24, 2011)

I think im gonna call GLH abt the ebay ad and see what gives, i might be spending another 300 If i win the bid.


U r just Ballin, share the wealth I know u got a hook up with a hydro shop, LOL



How would u hook up the lighthouse tent 6.5 x 6.5?


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## WeJuana (Oct 24, 2011)

Spectra






Penetrator






Blackstar


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## WeJuana (Oct 24, 2011)

coolj said:


> U just got to much loot, LOL and having to much fun spending racks like its going out of style. U must have a hook up..share the wealth, who do i need to talk to so i can ball like u


haha I own my own company and sponsor artists  I'll leave it at that. 
Call Gotham Hydro on the tent though and tell Victor or Sean you saw the thread and see if they won't give you a discount.


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## coolj (Oct 24, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Spectra
> 
> 
> 
> ...


they all look gr8 but i think the blackstar looks the best.


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## WeJuana (Oct 24, 2011)

coolj said:


> they all look gr8 but i think the blackstar looks the best.


Yeah Blackstar is definitely holding the lead thus far


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## maxpesh (Oct 25, 2011)

Wow, glad I didn't buy a Spectra or spend 3 times as much on a Penetrator, although as it's still early I may end up eating my words


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## colocowboy (Oct 25, 2011)

Mmmmm, words!


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## massah (Oct 25, 2011)

WeJuana, I'd suggest after you get through the entire test to sit down and compile all the pictures together and create a new thread from start to finish to show people the differences between the panels without having to read for 5 hours to get through the entire thread going on here...there is alot of LED information that if condensed would make a great Sticky


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## maxpesh (Oct 25, 2011)

I see Gotham has finally updated and they now got the 500 veg model and the 900 on the site...... 900 with a light rail in an 8 x 4 tent ? Think I might go down that route next in my expansion !


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## mohawke (Oct 25, 2011)

Great test grow!

I have to say though, I think the plant under the Spectra would be looking a little better if the light was a little closer...

You said that the lights will remain stationary 55" above the floor during the entire grow?Well, If thats the case, then the Penetrator and Blackstar have an obvious advantage from the beginning. 

They both use 60 degree lenses (Blackstar uses 60/90/120), therefore, the plants under those lights will get more PAR light (with the lights @ 55inches above the floor) than the plant under the Spectra (It uses 90 degree lenses).


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## hoss12781 (Oct 25, 2011)

coolj said:


> wow spectra290s on ebay for 300 all sales final, moving and makin way for new inventory


Those are the ones with documented intensity issues, just a friendly FYI. That's where I got my 100w for $120 bucks. Great lights, totally worth the money with the discount offered, but you'll have to keep them higher (at least plus 4-5 inches) than the average led grow lamp or you'll wind up with mad bleaching. Cheers!


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## colocowboy (Oct 25, 2011)

If your not using each to it's respective manufacturers recommendation then it is an invalid comparison.


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## WeJuana (Oct 25, 2011)

massah said:


> WeJuana, I'd suggest after you get through the entire test to sit down and compile all the pictures together and create a new thread from start to finish to show people the differences between the panels without having to read for 5 hours to get through the entire thread going on here...there is alot of LED information that if condensed would make a great Sticky


Smart thinking! I will definitely do that!

@Maxpesh- WHAAAT!? I didn't even know a 500w HO Blackstar existed until you just posted this and I looked!


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## WeJuana (Oct 25, 2011)

colocowboy said:


> If your not using each to it's respective manufacturers recommendation then it is an invalid comparison.


I beg to differ. I think the comparison is valid to show performance at 55" thus far. Further on in the journal I may change light heights.

It is, after all, the manufacturers choice how they make their lights, and whether they will do good in any other manor other than the "manufacturers recommendation"


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## colocowboy (Oct 25, 2011)

Okay, while I accept that, it is not the title of this thread. Manufacturers engineer their lights to specific purposing, your statement is not scientific it is proving of a bias, by your own admission.

**I am not saying that what your doing is not still interesting or anything, it is just not an unbiased comparison. 
It can still be a LED TEST I guess, I mean I can't see why not. Just saying that the initial thought needed your last posts clarification, for me anyway.... lol
Thanks!
cheers!


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## WeJuana (Oct 25, 2011)

colocowboy said:


> Okay, while I accept that, it is not the title of this thread. Manufacturers engineer their lights to specific purposing, your statement is not scientific it is proving of a bias, by your own admission.


Okay. I would accept that, but "manufacturer engineered light test" is not the title of this thread either lol.

It seems I am just choosing different parameters than you would have.


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## coolj (Oct 25, 2011)

ok covering a 7x7 space with leds how would u do it people? the right way


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## WeJuana (Oct 25, 2011)

mohawke said:


> Great test grow!
> 
> You said that the lights will remain stationary 55" above the floor during the entire grow?Well, If thats the case, then the Penetrator and Blackstar have an obvious advantage from the beginning.
> 
> They both use 60 degree lenses (Blackstar uses 60/90/120), therefore, the plants under those lights will get more PAR light (with the lights @ 55inches above the floor) than the plant under the Spectra (It uses 90 degree lenses).


Thanks so much! 

During at least the first portion of testing I plan on keeping the lights stationary but since I am making this a perpetual grow, I will be able to start changing variables and may eventually may start lowering the lights as one of them.


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## WeJuana (Oct 25, 2011)

coolj said:


> ok covering a 7x7 space with leds how would u do it people? the right way


4 lights (min draw 300w / light) is how I would run it.


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## Endur0xX (Oct 25, 2011)

One thing though is that most people will keep their lights at the same distance from the plants whether or not the plant is tall... that said, it might have been a good idea to always keep the top of the plant at the same distance from the light instead of having the light stationary. That said, it was clear from the first post that the experiment was going to be set this way. I wasnt gonna say anything about it but now that mohawke points out the fact about the spectra and the 60degrees lenses,I personally would prefer to see it like the lights are always 15 inches (or whatever you like, but always the same through the entire grow in each room) from the top of the plant. but you are halfway there now, regardless, I enjoy following the grow show!


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 25, 2011)

this is why everyone says the GLH lights yield more, because you get proper spectrum mix from 60* angle lenses at height and intesity as well, which the blackstar doesnt provide you have to sacrafice a little one way or the other when you hang your light, but that being said, the difference IMO is not worth the $

But i actually wish i would have thought to mention that earlier, still a really nice test though, better than any of teh others i've seen done really


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## kush groove (Oct 25, 2011)

keep up the good work wejuana....if the cheapest lights do the best a lot of people are gonna have a sore ass around here, but oh well.......i think the average person, including myself, would put the lights as close as possible despite manufacturers recommendation.....i had both my led's and 400w cmh 8" from the canopy and no problems.....as long as all the lights are the same distance then its fair game in my opinion.....its a fact that all the plants are going to respond a little different as far as height and bushiness are concerned.....personally a few inches in either direction doesnt bother me that much....lookin good brother

and for the record im not biased....im just a happy blackstar user that thinks the most expensive light should win by a long shot


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## Endur0xX (Oct 25, 2011)

kush groove said:


> keep up the good work wejuana....if the cheapest lights do the best a lot of people are gonna have a sore ass around here, but oh well.......i think the average person, including myself, would put the lights as close as possible despite manufacturers recommendation.....i had both my led's and 400w cmh 8" from the canopy and no problems.....as long as all the lights are the same distance then its fair game in my opinion.....its a fact that all the plants are going to respond a little different as far as height and bushiness are concerned.....personally a few inches in either direction doesnt bother me that much....lookin good brother
> 
> and for the record im not biased....im just a happy blackstar user that thinks *the most expensive light should win by a long shot*


I agree. The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.


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## maxpesh (Oct 25, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> I agree. The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.


3 X $ 3 X yield

there u go 10 characters hehehe


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 25, 2011)

Great job wejuana....everything is moving right along(Quickly)....keep it up


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## FMCCNate (Oct 25, 2011)

Ya I wouldn't pay 3x the money for a light that doesn't at least double he yeild of the one that's a third the price.


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## WeJuana (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks all!! Plants are looking good today! Update pictures will be up shortly


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## WeJuana (Oct 26, 2011)

Spectra






Penetrator






Blackstar


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## puffenuff (Oct 26, 2011)

Hey wejuana, all the updates, photos, and videos are awesome...keep em coming! But could you do a couple pics of the entire plants or at least a couple full branches so we can see the lower flowers too?

Also, it might be a good idea to post the lens angles for each light...we seem to have some confusion already based on a few of the other posters' comments...


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## FMCCNate (Oct 26, 2011)

Dam those are looking sexy


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## WeJuana (Oct 26, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Hey wejuana, all the updates, photos, and videos are awesome...keep em coming! But could you do a couple pics of the entire plants or at least a couple full branches so we can see the lower flowers too?
> 
> Also, it might be a good idea to post the lens angles for each light...we seem to have some confusion already based on a few of the other posters' comments...


Sure, not a problem.

Blackstar: 60, 90 & 120 degree lenses
Spectra : 90 degree lenses
Penetrator: between 60-90 degree lenses


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## puffenuff (Oct 26, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Sure, not a problem.
> 
> Blackstar: 60, 90 & 120 degree lenses
> Spectra : 90 degree lenses
> Penetrator: between 60-90 degree lenses


Thank you kind sir!


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## WeJuana (Oct 26, 2011)

@Nate- Thanks much! I cant wait for these next few weeks.. they should start looking ohh soo lovely.
@puff - Not a problem at all! Glad I could clear that up. Now ask me to go into what the different degrees do and I couldnt tell you haha, I'm good with facts though.


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## jubiare (Oct 26, 2011)

FMCCNate said:


> Ya I wouldn't pay 3x the money for a light that doesn't at least double he yeild of the one that's a third the price.


That's so right. Penetrator or cammie or whatever it is..... that's a real JOKE. a NASTY JOKE. Those lights all they have is a different color case? Apparentely Eshinesystem makes them? It's not that I want to go against a company with high price, the thing is this: we are not talking about superior lights/diodes/thecnologies, we are not talking about some Osram/cree/philips diodes... or we are not talking about Kessils, that at least they have their own technology/diodes/professionals/researchers .........we are talking about the same sort of medium-quality lights that competitors sells at less price than Cammie. Guys, really, OPEN YOUR EYES. Competitors with similar lights-quality, with lower prices, already make more than good profits out of us!!! Cammie is just a TOO MUCH OF A JOKE. WAKE UP! Sorry


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## WeJuana (Oct 26, 2011)

Blackstar in the middle with the Brand new Spectra 150s.

These will be coming out in a few weeks with the new website for GLH. Michael asked me to ask yall to bare with the old site in the meanwhile.

"The 150's use 3w true 45ml chips, red and blue wavelengths use 90* lens and the two different white led's use 120* lenses. The true draw of the panel is around 155w and uses 100 individual led's."

*I'm going to swap the 2 Spectra 150's with the 300 after the first plants are chopped.*


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## Endur0xX (Oct 26, 2011)

so you are going to put 2 spectra 150 in the experiment room, correct? looking forward to see if it will catch up with the blackstar


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## Fuzzbutter (Oct 26, 2011)

I wonder how a Kessil H350 would hold up in this


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 26, 2011)

im willing to put money down that the kessil would smash on all three of these panels... just my opinion, i've seen a complete noob never run hydro, never scrog, never grown really more than 2 times in dirt once with cfl and once outside. Grab a h150 and scrog and pull 40 grams dry off of one plant, pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Now imagine with an experienced grower and a h350 should have a fat yield, i've never run my h150 alone so i cant comment too much from personal experience but it boosted my blackstar 240watts output of nug massively. Lots more now with just that 36w addition.

that being said those new GLH panels look nice, i still dig on the fact that blackstar has 60 90 and 120 lenses and not just limited, i really do like their product its solid and not exorbitantly priced.


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## WeJuana (Oct 27, 2011)

[video=youtube;SOsT1G9xFh8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOsT1G9xFh8[/video]


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## cannawizard (Oct 27, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> im willing to put money down that the kessil would smash on all three of these panels... just my opinion, i've seen a complete noob never run hydro, never scrog, never grown really more than 2 times in dirt once with cfl and once outside. Grab a h150 and scrog and pull 40 grams dry off of one plant, pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Now imagine with an experienced grower and a h350 should have a fat yield, i've never run my h150 alone so i cant comment too much from personal experience but it boosted my blackstar 240watts output of nug massively. Lots more now with just that 36w addition.
> 
> that being said those new GLH panels look nice, i still dig on the fact that blackstar has 60 90 and 120 lenses and not just limited, i really do like their product its solid and not exorbitantly priced.


**no need to throw in Kessil in here, WeJuana prolly already has his hands full w/ this current project  ..from what im seeing so far by just a stand-alone LED panel grow.. id go w/ blackstars.. for now  --cheers


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## maxpesh (Oct 27, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> [video=youtube;SOsT1G9xFh8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOsT1G9xFh8[/video]


OMG ! The Spectra plant looks like it's dying compared to the Blackstar and I've noticed that the leaves on the Blackstar plant are doing that "come to the light" thing whilst the leaves on the Penetrator are just horizontal or drooping downwards. Hope Spectra and Penetrator owners (amongst others) are following this grow. This thread alone could maybe start a price war and stop some company's lies and greed, let's hope so


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## Endur0xX (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree!! but it's new technology so the price will go down regardless... and by the way, I had never heard of Kessil before, and I would not gamble a dime on them!! 

it's obvious that the blackstar is way ahead now ... those other 2 dont even look that healthy! what is their watering schedule!? Have they all been on the same watering schedule so far!?


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## Fuzzbutter (Oct 27, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> im willing to put money down that the kessil would smash on all three of these panels... just my opinion, i've seen a complete noob never run hydro, never scrog, never grown really more than 2 times in dirt once with cfl and once outside. Grab a h150 and scrog and pull 40 grams dry off of one plant, pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Now imagine with an experienced grower and a h350 should have a fat yield, i've never run my h150 alone so i cant comment too much from personal experience but it boosted my blackstar 240watts output of nug massively. Lots more now with just that 36w addition.


Was he on here? Link? You should check out my grow, I was running the 150 purple. My only issue with Kessils is I wish you could tune the color waves like you can in some panel models because they way they have it you need either a gen purple light with a red booster during flower or you need a magenta for flower and purple for veg, but I know some growers who do change their lights out for different stages so it's not that inconvenient, just expensive >_<



cannawizard said:


> **no need to throw in Kessil in here, WeJuana prolly already has his hands full w/ this current project  ..from what im seeing so far by just a stand-alone LED panel grow.. id go w/ blackstars.. for now  --cheers


I'm just curious to see how a Kessil compares to a "traditional" LED panel


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## Fuzzbutter (Oct 27, 2011)

maybe the winner of this should then be compared to a Kessil H350 megenta (since this seems to be flowering plants only). Then we could see how the different technologies compare


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## puffenuff (Oct 27, 2011)

What's up Wejuana? Things are starting to get interesting now. Just curious, have you noticed any differences in the units as far as how much heat they put off...does one tent get hotter than the others? Can you also speak on your watering schedules? Do you find that your medium dries out faster under one light compared to the others? Thanks!


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Oct 27, 2011)

Love this grow. I personally am contemplating hanging the higher end blackstar between a couple 600w HPS as supplemental lighting. Between 2 600's with a relatively small footprint I bet it would make an awesome sea of green grow.


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## Heretic (Oct 27, 2011)

WeJuana... I think you can put those blackstar veg lights much closer to your clones. I run mine maybe 6 inches above clones and have had leaves touch during veg and everything was fine. At the height you have the one over the larger pots, you aren't getting enough light to the plants IMO. I know you need to spread the footprint, but I think it might be a little too much as it is. Just something to ponder... lol


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## davoswavos (Oct 27, 2011)

jubiare said:


> That's so right. Penetrator or cammie or whatever it is..... that's a real JOKE. a NASTY JOKE. Those lights all they have is a different color case? Apparentely Eshinesystem makes them? It's not that I want to go against a company with high price, the thing is this: we are not talking about superior lights/diodes/thecnologies, we are not talking about some Osram/cree/philips diodes... or we are not talking about Kessils, that at least they have their own technology/diodes/professionals/researchers .........we are talking about the same sort of medium-quality lights that competitors sells at less price than Cammie. Guys, really, OPEN YOUR EYES. Competitors with similar lights-quality, with lower prices, already make more than good profits out of us!!! Cammie is just a TOO MUCH OF A JOKE. WAKE UP! Sorry


Don't you mean *SCAMMIE*?


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 27, 2011)

unfortunately i agree with you lol, we shall leave wejuana's led fried brain to test that another day lol. But i agree from the results shown in here suddenly i feel much better about my blackstar purchase, i know im not going to GLH, i was tempted to jump ship for a bit, but im actually quite satisfied now. lol the GLH is probably the second panel i would go with if i didnt go blackstar.



cannawizard said:


> **no need to throw in Kessil in here, WeJuana prolly already has his hands full w/ this current project  ..from what im seeing so far by just a stand-alone LED panel grow.. id go w/ blackstars.. for now  --cheers


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 27, 2011)

getting the lights that close while it wont burn your plants its pretty detrimental to growth the reason being spectrum mixing you need at least 10 inches IMO to even begin to get proper mix and thats with the BS that has wide angle lenses compared to the other 2 panels being shown higher will actually give better results believe it or not, led's are not all about intensity, they are all about PAR, intesity and lums plays a role but not as much as PAR.



Heretic said:


> WeJuana... I think you can put those blackstar veg lights much closer to your clones. I run mine maybe 6 inches above clones and have had leaves touch during veg and everything was fine. At the height you have the one over the larger pots, you aren't getting enough light to the plants IMO. I know you need to spread the footprint, but I think it might be a little too much as it is. Just something to ponder... lol


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 27, 2011)

lol and there you show your ignorance to LED technology lol your obviously a follower and not researcher or you would know about kessil lol. they are not a gamble they ARE the highest quality light on the market build wise, they use DICON products which we use for government and military contracts, they got the highest quality shit, totally different tech than standard LED panels, in a way you cant even compare them its just not fair lol.

As for needing a purple light for veg with kessil its not neccesary unless your going to be veging for extended periods of time, i scrog and SOG, so i dont use a purple light i use magenta all teh way thru it has more than enough blue in it to stack nodes just fine. Now for extended veg of over a month to 2 months i would probably suggest a purple or blue, but honestly the magenta is a really a do it all color for kessil it fuckin handles the business. Also that 40 grams dry was pulled off of a magenta kessil. 150

I would actually like to see a h350 compared to the panel winner here it would be quite interesting IMO



Endur0xX said:


> I agree!! but it's new technology so the price will go down regardless... and by the way, I had never heard of Kessil before, and I would not gamble a dime on them!!
> 
> it's obvious that the blackstar is way ahead now ... those other 2 dont even look that healthy! what is their watering schedule!? Have they all been on the same watering schedule so far!?


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## Fuzzbutter (Oct 27, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> getting the lights that close while it wont burn your plants its pretty detrimental to growth the reason being spectrum mixing you need at least 10 inches IMO


I can attest to this as since this was my first LED grow and thinking I could put it super close, I had my Kessil set-up 4-6" above my plant when it was a seedling and it wouldn't grow. The second I moved my light to about 12" my plant exploded with growth.


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## Heretic (Oct 27, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> getting the lights that close while it wont burn your plants its pretty detrimental to growth the reason being spectrum mixing you need at least 10 inches IMO to even begin to get proper mix and thats with the BS that has wide angle lenses compared to the other 2 panels being shown higher will actually give better results believe it or not, led's are not all about intensity, they are all about PAR, intesity and lums plays a role but not as much as PAR.


My personal experience with those exact lights says otherwise. During veg I put them at around 10 inches, clones at 6, and they do just fine. It's because of the lenses that it works, as you alluded to. And because of the lenses, I think the panel he has between the 2 spectras is WAY too high to be efficient.

Thinking about it a little more, since those lights have a lot of white leds, you can get them closer than the flower model and not worry as much about spectrum mixing.


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## Endur0xX (Oct 27, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> lol and there you show your ignorance to LED technology lol your obviously a follower and not researcher or you would know about kessil lol. they are not a gamble they ARE the highest quality light on the market build wise, they use DICON products which we use for government and military contracts, they got the highest quality shit, totally different tech than standard LED panels, in a way you cant even compare them its just not fair lol.
> 
> As for needing a purple light for veg with kessil its not neccesary unless your going to be veging for extended periods of time, i scrog and SOG, so i dont use a purple light i use magenta all teh way thru it has more than enough blue in it to stack nodes just fine. Now for extended veg of over a month to 2 months i would probably suggest a purple or blue, but honestly the magenta is a really a do it all color for kessil it fuckin handles the business. Also that 40 grams dry was pulled off of a magenta kessil. 150
> 
> I would actually like to see a h350 compared to the panel winner here it would be quite interesting IMO



Indeed, I am a follower... and thank god there is people like Wejuana that expose their experiments so that I can follow even more...

LEDs only got my attention about a month ago... when I put a few seeds in soil. 

And still, 250$ (about on ebay with shipping in cdn $$) for 36W lamp! and the H350 is 90W for 430$ on amazon! a bit overprice in my opinion ... but so was my extreme diamond, ... still I find they dont give out much infos about their lights on their website like what types of diodes they use etc...

I had not realise you pulled 40g out of 36W, thanks for bringing this brand to my attention... I will FOLLOW them closely now...

Peace


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## WeJuana (Oct 27, 2011)

Kessil huh? I thought the same thing, it seemed a little overpriced at 450 per 90w.. but I may eventually rotate one of these brands out and put a new one in, ill definitely check into Kessil.

I'm glad your all here bringing your bit of info to the table though, I am learning new stuff about LEDs almost daily because of this thread.


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## coolj (Oct 27, 2011)

* I am both follower and researcher. Im loving this thread I came across kessil vids on utube and i must say I LIKE' EM! that whole modular concept that Kapt Kron is talking abt is love, but but if i tell my lady im spending 400 on a 90w light she gonna question my sanity, lol
*


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## coolj (Oct 27, 2011)

I would like to Thank WeJuana, Kron, knock, and anyone else who has answered my questions, because of u guys im sold on leds, before i thought they were just christmas lights, lol but u guys have caused me to read abt 300 pages of text and watch abt 2 hours of vids on leds and now im geeked to revamp my whole setup.


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## WeJuana (Oct 27, 2011)

coolj said:


> I would like to Thank WeJuana, Kron, knock, and anyone else who has answered my questions, because of u guys im sold on leds, before i thought they were just christmas lights, lol but u guys have caused me to read abt 300 pages of text and watch abt 2 hours of vids on leds and now im geeked to revamp my whole setup.


Your welcome!

Everybody watch out! coolj got bit by the LED bug.... and its contagious!!


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## WeJuana (Oct 27, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> I agree!! but it's new technology so the price will go down regardless... and by the way, I had never heard of Kessil before, and I would not gamble a dime on them!!
> 
> it's obvious that the blackstar is way ahead now ... those other 2 dont even look that healthy! what is their watering schedule!? Have they all been on the same watering schedule so far!?


All 3 plants are watered with the same water/nute mix on the same schedule. I water every 2/3 days depending on how heavily I watered the previous time and the soil dampness (I prefer to water less before a feeding).


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## coolj (Oct 27, 2011)

what led setup would u put in this tent?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DarkRoom-PRO-Secret-Jardin-Dark-Propagator-Hydroponics-/350461082000?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51991bb990


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## hippy132 (Oct 27, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> All 3 plants are watered with the same water/nute mix on the same schedule. I water every 2/3 days depending on how heavily I watered the previous time and the soil dampness (I prefer to water less before a feeding).


So, help me I am confused should I be buying LED's that can grow from 50 inches or what, will they all penetrate the same, I just dont know what to say the Spectra really seem to be having an issue... scary , I spent much money.


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 27, 2011)

The blackstar led seems to be ahead(for now).....As many have said, find it hard to believe the other units will make it up equally by their price difference...
And yeah kessils are great products...my problem is their actual footprint=price is rather small.
Happy growing Wejuana....


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## johnnymcpotts (Oct 27, 2011)

I gotta tell you, this thread has inspired me and brought up a lot of questions on what lights to go with so I have officially decided to run a test myself. 

I'm currently building my new grow rooms and should be done within 1-2 weeks (I hope) I picked up the Spectra lights from ebay (2) 180 watt, (2) 290 watt, (1) 500 watt and I have a 400 watt HPS

I now plan on contacting Gotham and picking up (3) 240 watt Blackstars and putting them to the test. 

I'm thinking about one all Spectra room with both 290's and a 180, one room with Spectra 500 and 180 and the HID and a Blackstar room with all three 240's

what do you guys think?

Sorry, I don't want to hijack your awesome thread, I just got really excited reading though it and my mind started to race!

Keep up the great work! 

Anyone have any experience with Jilly Bean or Chocolope?


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## WeJuana (Oct 27, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> So, help me I am confused should I be buying LED's that can grow from 50 inches or what, will they all penetrate the same, I just dont know what to say the Spectra really seem to be having an issue... scary , I spent much money.


Usually people who use LED's put them closer to the plant (12-24") but I am running an experiment which will have many new plants entered in the tents so I have my lights raised more than usual to be able to accommodate the different size plants which will be in and out.



coolj said:


> what led setup would u put in this tent?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DarkRoom-PRO-Secret-Jardin-Dark-Propagator-Hydroponics-/350461082000?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51991bb990


I would use something drawing 100-150w and it should more than handle a 3x2x2!

@Psuagro - Thanks so much! That was my thought as well.
@johnymcpotts - PM me the link when you get your thread up!


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## coolj (Oct 27, 2011)

I was thinking a blackstar UFO 100 would b good.


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## WeJuana (Oct 27, 2011)

Spectra





Bud Sites:






Blackstar:





Bud Sites:






Penetrator:





Bud Sites:


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## coolj (Oct 27, 2011)

the blackstar looks like its a better light


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## WeJuana (Oct 27, 2011)

coolj said:


> I was thinking a blackstar UFO 100 would b good.


Yeah if your looking to go Blackstar I would say the 100 UFO or the 240w light would be ideal!


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## coolj (Oct 27, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Yeah if your looking to go Blackstar I would say the 100 UFO or the 240w light would be ideal!


I want to use that tent for clones seedlings and a mother or two


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## WeJuana (Oct 27, 2011)

coolj said:


> I want to use that tent for clones seedlings and a mother or two


If it were me I would use a 240w High Output to get the job done


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## Endur0xX (Oct 28, 2011)

I am trying to find a cheap way to keep my dresser above 1000ppm of CO2, I would like to get this : http://www.co2meter.com/products/tim10-co2-temperature-humidity-monitor ...but it is a bit pricey considering I ve invested 30$ into my c02 system hehe... so I am leaning towards one of those kidde KN-COPP-B-LPM Carbon Monoxide Alarm, which are digital and show the ppm concentration up to 999ppm. (yes it's an alarm I ll have to do something with the noise, ... I just want to configure my setup so I have an idea if I can keep my room with sufficient c02 to make it worth my while) I have read that if you cant get your c02 system to be stable at 1500ppm it's useless, is this true? 

Anyway, I found a Carbon monoxide concentrations and their effects sheet online... makes you want to be careful when admiring your plants if you got the c02 going!!


CO concentration in parts per million (ppm)	Effects
0 &#8211; 2 Normal conditions in and outside Canadian houses.
10 Recommended exposure limit over a 24-hour period.3
25 Recommended exposure limit over a 1-hour period.3
30 CO detectors are not allowed to sound alarm unless this concentration is maintained for more than 30 days.2
70 CO detectors must sound alarm within 1 to 4 hours.2
150 CO detectors must sound alarm within 10 to 50 minutes.2
200 Slight headache, fatigue, dizziness and nausea after 2 to 3 hours. CO detector alarm must sound within 35 minutes.4
400 CO detectors must sound alarm within 4 to 15 minutes.2
800 Dizziness, nausea and convulsions within 45 minutes, death within 2 to 3 hours.4
1,600 Death within 1 hour.4
13,000	Danger of death after 1 to 3 minutes.4


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 28, 2011)

So glad I bought Blackstars.... lol


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## KnockWood (Oct 28, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> Anyway, I found a Carbon monoxide concentrations and their effects sheet online... makes you want to be careful when admiring your plants if you got the c02 going!!


Just a heads up, CO is different from CO2... carbon MONOXIDE vs carbon DIOXIDE. They are entirely different compounds.


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## PrezDickie (Oct 28, 2011)

KnockWood said:


> Just a heads up, CO is different from CO2... carbon MONOXIDE vs carbon DIOXIDE. They are entirely different compounds.


you beat me to it, co and co2 are totally different
and i don't think that detector would do anything for you. Props for thinking outside the box thou.


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## WeJuana (Oct 28, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> I am trying to find a cheap way to keep my dresser above 1000ppm of CO2, I would like to get this : http://www.co2meter.com/products/tim10-co2-temperature-humidity-monitor ...but it is a bit pricey considering I ve invested 30$ into my c02 system hehe... so I am leaning towards one of those kidde KN-COPP-B-LPM Carbon Monoxide Alarm, which are digital and show the ppm concentration up to 999ppm. (yes it's an alarm I ll have to do something with the noise, ... I just want to configure my setup so I have an idea if I can keep my room with sufficient c02 to make it worth my while) I have read that if you cant get your c02 system to be stable at 1500ppm it's useless, is this true?
> 
> Anyway, I found a Carbon monoxide concentrations and their effects sheet online... makes you want to be careful when admiring your plants if you got the c02 going!!
> 
> ...


If its a dresser I would look into those CO2 making bags and just keep that in there..


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 28, 2011)

sorry for bein harsh, i can be kinda an ass lol  hope no offense was taken lol

Oh and fyi i can get teh h350's for 360 bucks, trust me its way worth it for 90 watts just ask cannawizard. lol your gonna wanna try that, 36 watts makes my 130 of blackstar look pretty pussy in comparison lol specially when 36 watts is doin what 130 is lol

kessil is the shit, basically IMO its come full circle back to where i was 3 years ago when i started this Blackstar and Kessil > everthing else i've seen either because of price or quality. Not sayin there arent other GREAT lights out there i just think prices get too crazy for results at a certain point and kessil is still a little on the pricey side IMO but they are comn down and they are still worth it.


Endur0xX said:


> Indeed, I am a follower... and thank god there is people like Wejuana that expose their experiments so that I can follow even more...
> 
> LEDs only got my attention about a month ago... when I put a few seeds in soil.
> 
> ...


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## anotherdaymusic (Oct 28, 2011)

I have been using my andanced led 3wchip 11 spectrum light for a week and cannot believe the results/node spacing. Will update everyone when I flip the lights to 12/12 in a week and a half or so..


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## Endur0xX (Oct 28, 2011)

PrezDickie said:


> you beat me to it, co and co2 are totally different
> and i don't think that detector would do anything for you. Props for thinking outside the box thou.


 my bad! I was trying to find the cheapest co2 digital monitor and I guess my search got side tracked then I got them mixed up... I was in the clouds! the cheapest I found ... http://www.co2meter.com/products/tim10-co2-temperature-humidity-monitor


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## WeJuana (Oct 28, 2011)

I used the flash to bring out the actual colors of the plant. It was the best I could do as I do not have regular lighting in the room.

Spectra:





Bud Sites:





Bud Site:






Blackstar:





Bud Sites:





Bud Site:






Penetrator:





Bud Sites:





Bud Site:


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## maxpesh (Oct 28, 2011)

The buds on the Penetrator are looking good now.


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## WeJuana (Oct 28, 2011)

All of the buds really started taking off after their first good feeding a day or 2 ago.. and I haven't even pulled out the Bloombastic yet! That's when they'll really start taking off like crazy.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 29, 2011)

Man glh super fail in thise pics black star by far lookin the best penetrator a close second but not for 1500$ lol bs looks stacked I jus saw my blue dream under 240 and my h150 kessil fillin in sick week five mid week five more to go or so right now looks like 3 zips we see how she fills she's only in a 3!gal pot no smart pot so I know my yield could be better a five gallon and a lik more pushin of nutrients I think I could do five to six fairly easily


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## WeJuana (Oct 29, 2011)

[video=youtube;Get852AKRtE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Get852AKRtE[/video]


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## FMCCNate (Oct 29, 2011)

Blackstar Plant looks amazing


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## tongue001 (Oct 29, 2011)

First off thanx for the comparison, definitely was needed as it will help alot of people decide which light is best for them. But from the videos and pic my money is o the penetrator x.


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## coolj (Oct 29, 2011)

anotherdaymusic said:


> I have been using my andanced led 3wchip 11 spectrum light for a week and cannot believe the results/node spacing. Will update everyone when I flip the lights to 12/12 in a week and a half or so..[/Q
> what model from advanced r u using?


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## SunnyD (Oct 29, 2011)

whats ur temp in ur rooms? and what are u feeding them? looks really deficient from the look of the blood red stem.


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## PrezDickie (Oct 29, 2011)

Red stems are common to some strains and also led seems to bring this trait out even when nutes are in good balance


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## Endur0xX (Oct 29, 2011)

anotherdaymusic said:


> I have been using my andanced led 3wchip 11 spectrum light for a week and cannot believe the results/node spacing. Will update everyone when I flip the lights to 12/12 in a week and a half or so..


I will get mine next week!! I wish I would have bought the 200W now!!


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## WeJuana (Oct 29, 2011)

@Nate - Yeah the Blackstar bush is a beauty! All the buds look relatively similar in size still, but the Blackstar leaves are much more perky.
@tounge - Your very welcome! Thanks for joining the thread.
@SunnyD - Dyna-Gro full line, plus bud candy/big bud and atami Bloombastic to finish it off. I originally thought the red stems were due to a deficiency (Mg) but I fixed it and the leaves greened back up, all plants including the Blackstar have red stems if you look at the pix, its the LA Con genetics.


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## coolj (Oct 29, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> [video=youtube;Get852AKRtE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Get852AKRtE[/video]


 blackstar 500! I think u should get an advanced ds200 or ds300 and put up against the blackstar 500 for ur next showdown..Posting vidz instead of pics is really cool.


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## coolj (Oct 29, 2011)

Im glad i waited a few days to buy my led light, looking at the bls500 i woulda been mad abt the 240..I like the 2 500 or a 500 and some kessils concept..Do u think a 500 beats a 600hps?


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## WeJuana (Oct 30, 2011)

Frost & Pistil report.

Spectra:











Blackstar:











Penetrator:


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## maxpesh (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks so much for posting all this info, all the Blackstar owners must be rather happy at the moment, but I gotta feel sorry for anyone that has spent money on the very expensive models. However I am well aware that the penetrators have excellent heat sinks but maybe it's just overkill. As long as the heat dissipation is adequate to prevent burn out and colour drift of the led, who cares ! Keep it coming wejuana, ur doing a great job


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## Endur0xX (Oct 30, 2011)

the Blackstar is growing a nice tree for 133Watts !!!


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 30, 2011)

coolj said:


> Im glad i waited a few days to buy my led light, looking at the bls500 i woulda been mad abt the 240..I like the 2 500 or a 500 and some kessils concept..Do u think a 500 beats a 600hps?


probably comes close to equal or slightly less from my personal experience black star needs minimum half the draw of an hps to equal and the bs is barely 300watts draw I would say it would come very close to a 600 of u train properly u may be able to exceed but I would expect similar results

Also the 500 blackstar pulls 300wAtts the 240 pulls 133 jus to clarify numbers


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## WeJuana (Oct 30, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> the Blackstar is growing a nice tree for 133Watts !!!


The 500w model draws about 300w but its definitely a happy little bush!


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## Endur0xX (Oct 30, 2011)

oh yeah the Blackstar 240 is 133W!!


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 30, 2011)

Yea and for 133 watts very impressive I've gotten a qp off of it easily on my first run and my methods were so fucked not to mention health of my plants


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## WeJuana (Oct 30, 2011)

I spotted some purple creeping into the tents today!!

You can see it best in the GLH tent with the Spectra because of the whitish hue.





W/ Flash:






Video update coming shortly


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Oct 30, 2011)

I've been following this for a while and I am very impressed. I am considering when I finish upgrading and adding more 600w HIDs in my bloom room to hang blackstars between the reflectors. The 900s!
I can't imagine what type of results that will produce.


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## coolj (Oct 30, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Frost & Pistil report.
> 
> Spectra:
> 
> ...


It looks like candy, that BLACKSTAR Looks like the winner


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## coolj (Oct 30, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Yea and for 133 watts very impressive I've gotten a qp off of it easily on my first run and my methods were so fucked not to mention health of my plants


How many plants did u run?


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 31, 2011)

BatMaN SKuNK said:


> I've been following this for a while and I am very impressed. I am considering when I finish upgrading and adding more 600w HIDs in my bloom room to hang blackstars between the reflectors. The 900s!
> I can't imagine what type of results that will produce.


Ridiculous ones that's jus fuckin insane man i seen what u do already impressive to say the least and 600watt draw blackstars will probably make u rethink hps altogether lol I always wanted to run a 600watt draw blackstar side by side to an hps and watch it blow the hps out of he water lol

In response to plants question I'd rsther not say pretty embarrassing I even let my partner try it that way 29 plants on a 2x3 ebb table lol I got better yield off one plant overcrowding to he extreme let's just forget about that run lol he fucked it off do sick he tossed a keeper mother because he thought it was strain problems not him needless to say he has since been replaced never toss out one o my keeper moms damnit that's ur ass


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## WeJuana (Oct 31, 2011)

[video=youtube;O0y1T9vd5kI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0y1T9vd5kI[/video]


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 31, 2011)

Awesome vid Wejuana.........This is a great thread for the led community......Keep it up...
be safe and happy growing..


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## organicbynature (Oct 31, 2011)

Which model of Spectra 290 are you running? Have you seen this post from Irishboy?



> *Very important info!!! *
> 
> Mike had some lab test done and he found out the issue, it was the lights just being too power ful for the height spaces most have. these lights are meant to be hung higher like MH and i have been doing. with that being said its not going to really work good for people that can hang them that high as we have seen.. Mike is going to send anyone thats having a issue a new power supply that will power the leds down to a little more then the 2010's models that are proven. this will make ur led power and lumens in between the 2010's and the 2011's. this should clear up all issues from what the lab test have shown. if you are having issues and Do Not have head room contact mike and he will send out new power supply's to all that need them. this will make you able to keep the lights much closer to the plants.. if you have head room and like the extra power and foot print then this is not needed for you guys. the power drawl will be the same as the 2010's but a little more? you will have to talk to Mike about the power drawl details?
> 
> the new pannels will be the same specs as the 2010's but added white and no glass i guess they have a new lenses that will make the lights run with no water isses with the glass out?


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## maxpesh (Oct 31, 2011)

organicbynature said:


> Which model of Spectra 290 are you running? Have you seen this post from Irishboy?


So basically, what he's saying is that the 290 is outputting more than the Sun at about 15 inches from the canopy (PAR 2000 micromoles). I find that a little difficult to believe, who in their right mind would want to change the power supply to do what it being suggested here, just buy a lower power model if the issue is less height. Not having a go at you organicbynature personally but I wouldn't believe everything you read in company boss statements. Peace bro


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 31, 2011)

That's been gone over like ten times in here man


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## organicbynature (Oct 31, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> So basically, what he's saying is that the 290 is outputting more than the Sun at about 15 inches from the canopy (PAR 2000 micromoles). I find that a little difficult to believe, who in their right mind would want to change the power supply to do what it being suggested here, just buy a lower power model if the issue is less height. Not having a go at you organicbynature personally but I wouldn't believe everything you read in company boss statements. Peace bro


I don't know that I *believe* it. But at the same time, if the owner is taking it on himself to send out power supplies to people, that comes at a cost. Why would he do that if it weren't going to make a difference? To simply suspend the bad PR?

It might not make sense and it might not fix the problem, but if this is a qualifying panel why not do it if he's sending out free power supplies? The Spectra is obviously under-performing in this grow but is a respected light from pre-2011 models. The alternate power supply is supposed to be an easy install and you'd end up with both, so you could power up the light if you had a lot of vertical space where you're growing and could hang the lamp up high, and power it down if you don't.

If the light isn't working properly, who in their right mind wouldn't try an easy, free fix? 

I believe you, Kaptain Kron, that we've been over this ground. I won't bother going back to confirm (and to find out which model this is - I did look at the OP but couldn't tell from there), since I was just making sure this has been looked at.

Incidentally, this light has 160 3W diodes and is supposed to run around 300 watts. A Blackstar 240 has 80 3W diodes and is supposed to run around 133 watts. So...maybe the Spectra really *should* be powered down.


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## organicbynature (Oct 31, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> So basically, what he's saying is that the 290 is outputting more than the Sun at about 15 inches from the canopy (PAR 2000 micromoles).


This may not be the case. I don't have the time right now to really delve into this, but some googling makes me question this assumption. It looks like photo-inhibition (which I think is the process that results from high light stress) is a fairly constant process that works against photosynthesis. It only becomes a problem when it goes beyond the plant's ability to repair itself. It looks like other factors play a role (such as heat, which LEDs don't produce a lot of but which is abundant when the sun is putting out 2000 micromoles on a clear, summer day). Also, it looks like different spectrums may play different roles in this, with UVB being a potential culprit.

Some questions:

Since it is a sun-loving species, an MJ plant can presumably make good use of 2000 micromoles of sunlight in outdoor conditions, but how is its maximum light capacity affected by indoor conditions? eg. does oxygen/CO2 content affect this? temperature? other biotic factors?

Is it possible that the Spectra panels are not producing too much light overall, but rather too much in certain spectrums?

I don't know much about this but am now somewhat inclined to learn more. Is anyone else familiar with the intricacies of photo-inhibition?


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 31, 2011)

Not really sure about that one but he has the older 290 panel the v2 with psu that is more power I wouldn't say it needs to be dialed back I would say the industry needs to decide if it's going to rate on watts drawn or total watts of the chip set multiplied by number of chips spectra was doing it watt for watt the old way now they are raring like blackstar number of chipsets times the 3 in this case since 3w chips bein used


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## SunnyD (Oct 31, 2011)

looking good.. can we get some pics with the lights off to really see them?


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## organicbynature (Oct 31, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Not really sure about that one but he has the older 290 panel the v2 with psu that is more power I wouldn't say it needs to be dialed back I would say the industry needs to decide if it's going to rate on watts drawn or total watts of the chip set multiplied by number of chips spectra was doing it watt for watt the old way now they are raring like blackstar number of chipsets times the 3 in this case since 3w chips bein used


So he has a panel that is known and admitted to not function well, at least without being far from the canopy (it looks like 3 to 4 feet is recommended). We already know that this light is not expected to produce well, and it looks to everyone like it's losing this comparison. Since these new power supplies have just started getting out to people, we *don't* know how the panel works running at a lower draw. It seems to me that would be more helpful information than seeing how it produces in its known-to-be-disfunctional state.

I do understand the skepticism behind improving results through lower wattage, but seeing is believing, right?

Just my two cents! I'm subbed to this grow on two different sites, regardless.


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## JackBeNimble (Oct 31, 2011)

SunnyD said:


> looking good.. can we get some pics with the lights off to really see them?


Amen! So hard to tell a plants health under these LED's. I always kick my LED's off when I'm checkin on plants or happen to be taking pics


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 31, 2011)

Sure we do Irish tested em both 24 -20 inches is fine for v2 panel


organicbynature said:


> So he has a panel that is known and admitted to not function well, at least without being far from the canopy (it looks like 3 to 4 feet is recommended). We already know that this light is not expected to produce well, and it looks to everyone like it's losing this comparison. Since these new power supplies have just started getting out to people, we *don't* know how the panel works running at a lower draw. It seems to me that would be more helpful information than seeing how it produces in its known-to-be-disfunctional state.
> 
> I do understand the skepticism behind improving results through lower wattage, but seeing is believing, right?
> 
> Just my two cents! I'm subbed to this grow on two different sites, regardless.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 31, 2011)

And it's not dysfunctional lol where did u get that idea mikes only sendin out power supplys because people are dumb and want their LEDs close when really further is better for better spectrum mixing i was calling like specifically askin him to send me a v2 power supply instead when i had the money to get one still don't have the money and now I wouldn't bother anyways blackstar proved itself in a side by side glh is proving to be more hype


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## organicbynature (Oct 31, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> And it's not dysfunctional lol where did u get that idea mikes only sendin out power supplys because people are dumb and want their LEDs close when really further is better for better spectrum mixing i was calling like specifically askin him to send me a v2 power supply instead when i had the money to get one still don't have the money and now I wouldn't bother anyways blackstar proved itself in a side by side glh is proving to be more hype


So what do you think is the big difference between these lights? Spectrum?

Do you think there is a functional difference in quality between 2010 and 2011 Spectras?


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 31, 2011)

The difference as I understand between v2 and 3 is psu only Irish could tell u for sure glh don't like to share info lol


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## hippy132 (Oct 31, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> The difference as I understand between v2 and 3 is psu only Irish could tell u for sure glh don't like to share info lol


Not sure, but pretty sure I am running V2 Spectra 180's and they are 12-15 inches from tops, not sure I ever saw burn as Irish might indicate ( not sure), into week 3 of flowering and with six plants unders two 180's , still not sure what height is best , so bought another spectra 290 w new ps, we will see. So far, my biggest learning has been start with large clones to get large plants if you have the room.


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## PSUAGRO. (Oct 31, 2011)

Damn I wish i could afford the blackstar 900 now.......
My little girls would turn into monsters.........Their alive!!!!muhaaaaa.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 31, 2011)

Might be because ur not on the 290 not sure if the power thing was that model only or not



hippy132 said:


> Not sure, but pretty sure I am running V2 Spectra 180's and they are 12-15 inches from tops, not sure I ever saw burn as Irish might indicate ( not sure), into week 3 of flowering and with six plants unders two 180's , still not sure what height is best , so bought another spectra 290 w new ps, we will see. So far, my biggest learning has been start with large clones to get large plants if you have the room.


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## WeJuana (Oct 31, 2011)

@SunnyD/@JackbeNimble - I could kick off the lights, but then it would be dark. I have no regular lighting in the room, only the LEDs and a green 13W CFL which barely puts out light.

I am no expert on the versions or these GLH lights, but I am running a Spectra 290, not sure which version.


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## coolj (Oct 31, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> @SunnyD/@JackbeNimble - I could kick off the lights, but then it would be dark. I have no regular lighting in the room, only the LEDs and a green 13W CFL which barely puts out light.
> 
> I am no expert on the versions or these GLH lights, but I am running a Spectra 290, not sure which version.


 Hey bro how do u like the blackstar 900? how is the coverage area and the room temps with that light?


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## WeJuana (Oct 31, 2011)

coolj said:


> Hey bro how do u like the blackstar 900? how is the coverage area and the room temps with that light?


Love it! I have it in the mother tent and I just lowered the light 2 days ago, as I didnt want to burn the new plants.. so now I will really be able to tell what it can do.


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## Endur0xX (Oct 31, 2011)

hey WeJuana, have you ever looked into Haight Solid State LED's ? they use 6w leds, this company is new to me but has been around, what do you know about their grow lightS?


Is it me or these could be coming from the exact same place in China : http://www.hydrogrowled.com/Penetrator-84X-PRO-LED-Grow-Light-P84.aspx http://www.feroledlighting.com/fero-180-4g-led-grow-light/

yet one sold for more than double ( even though it's a slightly better light ) what is going on?


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## WeJuana (Oct 31, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> hey WeJuana, have you ever looked into Haight Solid State LED's ? they use 6w leds, this company is new to me but has been around, what do you know about their grow lightS?
> 
> 
> Is it me or these could be coming from the exact same place in China : http://www.hydrogrowled.com/Penetrator-84X-PRO-LED-Grow-Light-P84.aspx http://www.feroledlighting.com/fero-180-4g-led-grow-light/
> ...


I have heard about them, but I haven't done any research on them yet.

As for the second statement, I have no idea. They appear similar in packaging, but then again so do the Spectra and Blackstar at face value. It all depends on functionality which I have no room to judge on, as I have no experience with Fero LEDs plus I have not fully completed a harvest with the first run of plants on these current lights.


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## WeJuana (Oct 31, 2011)

Spectra:





W/ Flash
















Blackstar:





W/ Flash:














Penetrator:





W/ Flash:


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## karr (Nov 1, 2011)

Did you ever establish what height you are putting each light at? The stationary 55in thing caught me a while back, just curious if it has been revised.


If i were comparing nutrients, i would follow the directions on the bottle, wouldn't you?


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## WeJuana (Nov 1, 2011)

karr said:


> Did you ever establish what height you are putting each light at? The stationary 55in thing caught me a while back, just curious if it has been revised.
> 
> 
> If i were comparing nutrients, i would follow the directions on the bottle, wouldn't you?


Definitely, but the theory works better with bottles of nutrients, and not a perpetual grow. 

As is, the lights are all within 24" of the top canopy which is in the suggested range of all of the lights to my understanding. (12-24"). Eventually I will be entering plants into the tents taller than the ones now which will require the lights to be at this height. For that reason I chose to control the height variable by keeping all the lights at the same distance of 55" for the time being. Later I may take the lights down to the closest of the suggested range, but in my opinion if one is growing a 4x4 space, its about maximizing the footprint of the light to cover the growing area evenly, rather than hover close and be much brighter and intense on those directly underneath.


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## IlovePlants (Nov 1, 2011)

Hey WeJuana,
I love the grow show you have going here friend. I just wanted to let you know that I'm subbed and you should keep up the good work. I can't wait to see the end results. So far it's looking really good although, having been a longtime lurker, I do notice a lot of people who post on other LED threads are posting the same passive aggressive bias that they always tend to do. You would think that a long time grower would have the patience to see the results before making a conclusion. You don't look at a bare bones vehicle on the assembly line and say, "I don't really think this car is going to go anywhere...". You wait until the vehicle is fully assembled before you can take it for a test drive. That's my view on it. I can't wait until the thread is complete and you have a smoke report to go along with it. Until then, you've put me on the edge of my seat!
Keep on Keepin' on,
ILove


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## karr (Nov 1, 2011)

Right, so if the light has a greater spread from a wider angle lens(for lack of a better term) then the footprint is achieved at a lower height and in fact by raising the light outside this spec the light is bouncing off the sides(assuming that there are reflective sides) and losing power there as well as needlessly hindering yourself via the inverse square law.

I just see soo many posts on a variety of forums where people complain about a product and only a fraction off the readers realize that the author didn't follow directions.

To me this grow is going to be very fun to watch but, sadly, so entirely far from a comparison at this point that the title ultimate led test is a slap in the face to guys like ss who actually take the time to test things properly. 

I still see the theory with nutes being an appropriate metaphor here. If I were to post a title of ionic vs gh nutes then used the ionic scale of 4tsp/gal for each of the gh parts and shrivel my plants to a thread that wouldn't be a nice comparison would it? 

Sorry for being so critical, it just irks me when something so simple is brushed aside and skewed tests deliver tainted results that influence an impressionable audience. 



WeJuana said:


> Definitely, but the theory works better with bottles of nutrients, and not a perpetual grow.
> 
> As is, the lights are all within 24" of the top canopy which is in the suggested range of all of the lights to my understanding. (12-24"). Eventually I will be entering plants into the tents taller than the ones now which will require the lights to be at this height. For that reason I chose to control the height variable by keeping all the lights at the same distance of 55" for the time being. Later I may take the lights down to the closest of the suggested range, but in my opinion if one is growing a 4x4 space, its about maximizing the footprint of the light to cover the growing area evenly, rather than hover close and be much brighter and intense on those directly underneath.


----------



## WeJuana (Nov 1, 2011)

karr said:


> Right, so if the light has a greater spread from a wider angle lens(for lack of a better term) then the footprint is achieved at a lower height and in fact by raising the light outside this spec the light is bouncing off the sides(assuming that there are reflective sides) and losing power there as well as needlessly hindering yourself via the inverse square law.
> 
> I just see soo many posts on a variety of forums where people complain about a product and only a fraction off the readers realize that the author didn't follow directions.
> 
> ...


You have to understand though, for those following the thread, I have already stated the height the lights are currently at are not necessarily the most ideal. I can understand being upset at people testing for a specific company, who claim they are following manufacturer instructions, while in fact they are not. I simply set up the test and have explained in detail the setup, and that it is not the closest recommended distance.

I fear you are making a judgement before the testing is over. If my yields lack significantly from other LED yields, then I will definitely consider looking into changing factors to reflect accurate yields. I have however not harvested even one time. 

I am not understanding how you claim this is "far from a comparison" when the definition is simply comparing alike items, in this case the lights.

I completely understand your metaphor, but what your metaphor lacks to account for is the height of plants, requiring the light to be a certain height.

So as it is now, you do not actually knowing the distance from the canopy to the light, but merely the distance from light to floor (55"), yet your stating I am not using them correctly. Please tell me what you feel the appropriate distance the lights should be from the canopy if you would humor me, and we can see how close to that they actually sit.

Not a problem at all, I enjoy critiquing, but there is a difference in a critique that is valid versus one wishing the experiment controls were as they would have set, versus what I actually set.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 1, 2011)

There is a lot of newbie growers on this website and I like the idea of knowing which light will give the best overall result for the hobbyist, not the scientist... and so far it looks like blackstar, period.


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## maxpesh (Nov 1, 2011)

zmoorhs said:


> fixed
> 
> dont get scammed kids


zmoors ! Have you ever considered that maybe it just might not be a scam ? This thread is not intended to be HPS Vs LED , so if ur only here to throw around negativities could you do it on another thread please. He's posting pics AND vids, what more proof do you want ?


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## Endur0xX (Nov 1, 2011)

zmoorhs said:


> fixed
> 
> dont get scammed kids


Next week I will be setting up my LED dresser experiment, (I already have the same strain going under dual spectrum HID with the same supersoil...) and I will find out for myself...

I can already tell you that I am currently using the 5th generation UFO 90 Blue LED 90w as supplemental light in my room waiting for another LED, and the plant right under it is doing a LOT better than any other. So if anything, those LEDs will always be great as supplemental light ... but there is no doubt in my mind that I will have a similar ratio g/watt with either setup...


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## Endur0xX (Nov 1, 2011)

how do you explain plants doing better with a combination of HID and LED if they are so useless? you can also look at blue goo experiment on youtube, the LED didnt grow as big of buds but still did really well... considering that the lights are only gonna get better...


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## hoss12781 (Nov 1, 2011)

View attachment 1865565don't feed the troll


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## Endur0xX (Nov 1, 2011)

it's entertaining me right now! like I say, I dont care what people say, I will soon find out for myself... if it does work, if the LED are the shit, we are just about to see a new generation of marijuana growers using strictly sealed room LED and co2...


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## maxpesh (Nov 1, 2011)

Well when my next lot go into flower in a week maybe doubters will believe me as my first Led grow with 2 500watt blackstars was absolutely shit and the thread is still on here. However turned out that it wasn't the lights at fault it was something I had not come across before, but got the problem sorted so my new journal starts in about a weeks time, trust me I caused quite a stir and I hope that original thread of mine stays on there for all to see so that this time when my results are GOOD, hopefully all the doubters will believe ?


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## hoss12781 (Nov 1, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> Next week I will be setting up my LED dresser experiment, (I already have the same strain going under dual spectrum HID with the same supersoil...) and I will find out for myself...
> 
> I can already tell you that I am currently using the 5th generation UFO 90 Blue LED 90w as supplemental light in my room waiting for another LED, and the plant right under it is doing a LOT better than any other. So if anything, those LEDs will always be great as supplemental light ... but there is no doubt in my mind that I will have a similar ratio g/watt with either setup...


man if you want to see better results you'll need to get a light offering more than one spectrum. Even with 90w all blue and a 90w all red you're not hitting on all cylinders. Most of the 2011 models from reputable companies offer at least 7 different bands if not more. Just a friendly fyi from someone who once owned a 90w all blue and later sold it.


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## puffenuff (Nov 1, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> What's up Wejuana? Things are starting to get interesting now. Just curious, have you noticed any differences in the units as far as how much heat they put off...does one tent get hotter than the others? Can you also speak on your watering schedules? Do you find that your medium dries out faster under one light compared to the others? Thanks!


Yo WeJuana, I guess you glanced over this, but I'm still interested in your observations. Thanks!


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## WeJuana (Nov 1, 2011)

zmoorhs said:


> he works for an led company an got 2 of the 3 for free on loan for this led advertisement thread
> 
> 
> why is every led journel tainted with biased an fake results ? because there are only a few REAL led grow threads that get spammed an buried by the shills as they show the real proof of leds , real growers dont fall for fly by night scams like these led shills are pushing
> ...


Just wanted to clear a few things up for the record.

I don't work for an LED company. I didn't get 2/3 lights free on loan for this thread. I am not posting fake results.

I would like to know why you feel this doesn't constitute as a "real led grow" -- do you feel I am a scammer? hedge fund manager (or ex)? Switching the LEDs with HPS? Or are you coming to the thread just to mention all of everyone else's negativity since you didn't find any errors on my part, and then imply "REAL led grow threads that get spammed an buried by the shills as they show the real proof of leds" as if you are not one of the shills spamming.

You say "think about the people envolved in selling these brands"
I say "think about how hard you think about what this guy is saying if he can't even spell the word *involved*)


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## WeJuana (Nov 1, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Yo WeJuana, I guess you glanced over this, but I'm still interested in your observations. Thanks!


Those fans pull the heck out of the air in the tents.. I can't tell how much heat they are putting off.. all of them don't put off enough for me to tell with the fans on.


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## hoss12781 (Nov 1, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Just wanted to clear a few things up for the record.
> 
> I don't work for an LED company. I didn't get 2/3 lights free on loan for this thread. I am not posting fake results.
> 
> ...


Indeed. He pretty much accused me of the same damn thing. If you want to get his douchebaggery removed from your journal just contact a mod, most are eager to help remove assholes. That's what I've had to do in my journal ... twice.


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## WeJuana (Nov 1, 2011)

zmoorhs said:


> id like to see you type out every word in dutch then welsh english is my third language i do my best i can speak it 3 x better then i can type it , why the gramma nazi did i hit to close to the bone ? yep your post an then many others like it everytime these facts are brought up on any forum goes along way to validating everything i said
> 
> your deflection failed


Deflections change the direction of something, I am facing what you are saying head on. And obviously I would repost and correct wrongful information on my own thread?

What are you looking to get accomplished? Make me seem less honest? Steer people away from LEDs?
Because myself, all I want to get accomplished is to show the actual results the lights provide. I am not sitting here as a salesman, nor do I make a dime if any company sells a light off this thread. I'm simply a grower trying to show what LEDs can do, instead of being a negative nancy troll such as yourself. If you have something to say negative about LEDs, let's hear some facts because so far it just sounds like you have opinions that they don't work.


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## hoss12781 (Nov 1, 2011)

but he speaks *three* languages guys. Everybody listen to him!


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## sleezy1 (Nov 1, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Definitely, but the theory works better with bottles of nutrients, and not a perpetual grow.
> 
> As is, the lights are all within 24" of the top canopy which is in the suggested range of all of the lights to my understanding. (12-24"). Eventually I will be entering plants into the tents taller than the ones now which will require the lights to be at this height. For that reason I chose to control the height variable by keeping all the lights at the same distance of 55" for the time being. Later I may take the lights down to the closest of the suggested range, but in my opinion if one is growing a 4x4 space, its about maximizing the footprint of the light to cover the growing area evenly, rather than hover close and be much brighter and intense on those directly underneath.


WeJuana, with my blackstars I vegg at 10-14 inches, during flowering I am 6 inches from the top canopy. I understand having your lights higher would increase the footprint of the lights. I just wanted to make sure I was getting dense buds at the bottom of each plant And it worked! Im getting dense, dank buds at the very bottom of every plant. Im curious if you leave your lights at that distance what the density and penetration would be like. So I will be watching your blackstar grow for some intel. Looking great by the way!


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## WeJuana (Nov 1, 2011)

Just added a radio! Now the baby's get to jam!


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## jubiare (Nov 1, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Just added a radio! Now the baby's get to jam!


Great move! This might seems a stupid idea for many.. but you would be surprised how magic is the worlD we live in.
Let's the dance begin


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## cannawizard (Nov 1, 2011)

jubiare said:


> Great move! This might seems a stupid idea for many.. but you would be surprised how magic is the worlD we live in.
> Let's the dance begin


**pfff... those who mock others for something 'absurd'.. are just jelly.. trust me 

--mixing dubstep tunes for my ladies, vinyl makes chicks w3t... lol


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## WeJuana (Nov 1, 2011)

cannawizard said:


> **pfff... those who mock others for something 'absurd'.. are just jelly.. trust me
> 
> --mixing dubstep tunes for my ladies, vinyl makes chicks w3t... lol


I just made a dubstep CD for my plants and titled it budstep! Great minds think alike!!


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## WeJuana (Nov 1, 2011)

jubiare said:


> Great move! This might seems a stupid idea for many.. but you would be surprised how magic is the worlD we live in.
> Let's the dance begin


Couldn't have put it better myself!


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 1, 2011)

Here's my LED babies  Blackstar all the way!

View attachment 1866579View attachment 1866580View attachment 1866581View attachment 1866582


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## WeJuana (Nov 2, 2011)

Spectra:











Blackstar:











Penetrator:


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## PrezDickie (Nov 2, 2011)

looks like the penetrator is producing the frostiest plants now or are my eyes playing tricks on me?


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## PetFlora (Nov 2, 2011)

The curling under leaves in the Spectra pics could be part of why it's not top dawg.

Also, it looks like your girls are growing in pots that are too small to properly feed. I highly recommend Air Pots for soil growers

FYI: If you do a Journal instead of a Thread you can delete A'hole posts and edit your any time.


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## davoswavos (Nov 2, 2011)

penetrator sure is doing well not enough to justify the price but atleast not a total disappointment.


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## davoswavos (Nov 2, 2011)

here's my 2 white widow x big bud under blackstar 500 plus a couple clones on bottom of pic.


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## FMCCNate (Nov 2, 2011)

The penetrator seems to have pulled ahead a bit now.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 2, 2011)

Penetrator looks frosty but overall the blackstar buds seem he largest and healthiest comn in a close second on frost. Music is the shit for your plants myth busters did a test and found hat heavy metal stimulated growth the most i play mine a mix of Rasta tunes and some metal Rasta at night to get da good vibes goin mon so I an I can sleep lol some nice painters anthrax or maiden tend to satisfy he need during the day. Today I decided was Dio tribute day for me lol r.i.p.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 2, 2011)

I think you should do a price comparison next! 

The Penatrator is what, $1500 and the specter is close too; you should buy two more blackstar's to make an equal price comparison. 

1v1v3 THEN see which one wins.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 2, 2011)

I think we all know the answer to this lol three blackstars will absolutely put glh or that penetrator to shame lol. Blackstar is winning hands down and its results so far might as well be identical damn near and for a thousand bucks less yea I'll take that any day or buy three and run more plants


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## coolj (Nov 2, 2011)

The Blackstar is winning hands down!! the fact that it cost 500 bucks is really that dam WTF. i'd be mad as hell if i bought the X, or the Spectra!!!


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## PSUAGRO. (Nov 2, 2011)

The blackstar is still holding its own with "luxury" brands.........impressive!!
Be safe wejuana and happy growing..


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## Endur0xX (Nov 2, 2011)

from those pics I say the penetrator is ahead budwise ...


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 2, 2011)

How size is smaller sure it has a lil more tricome production but it's buds look smaller to me


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## maxpesh (Nov 3, 2011)

The penetrator looks like it has slightly more frost but I'll bet that's just because our eyes cannot see as much under the blackstar because it has so so much red spectrum. Hey wejuana try putting the camera on a tripod then switch the lights off and use ur flash coz I know you said you didn't have any other lighting in your room.


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## Heretic (Nov 3, 2011)

Ya pics without the leds on would be the most objective. I thought these things were supposed to be green... lol


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## ezgreentumb (Nov 3, 2011)

love my twin blackstars... less is better? watts / price or 1.70/1.62 per watt


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 3, 2011)

Blackstars are sick i pulled 1.6 gpw first run through on my 240


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## ezgreentumb (Nov 3, 2011)

thats the object...


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## Mohican (Nov 3, 2011)

Hi WJ - I am "scribed. This is a great comparison. Do you notice any difference in smell of the plants under the different lights?


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## jubiare (Nov 3, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Blackstars are sick i pulled 1.6 gpw first run through on my 240


Holy s***! 
Reaaaaally? How many plants? did you scrog, or just like "that"? That's very impressive.
are the fans on blackstars very noisy? The only thing that puts me off a bit, the poor one year warranty. 
They also claim they use 98% CREE diodes, the remain 2% Bridgelux. Can that be real?


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 3, 2011)

Yes they use brigelux for a spectrum cree doesn't make. Those numbers came from 27 sourd x Ssh clones on a 2x3 ebb table I got a bunch of frosty hay from overfilling my table I can pull the same from one plant scribed and I wish I and known at he time now I do though not makin stupid ass mistakes like that anymore p


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 3, 2011)

Fans aren't too loud one year warranty whatever most everything only has a one year not a lot of shit has 5 year warranties and if they do there's usually clauses for certain shit


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## WeJuana (Nov 3, 2011)

Mohican said:


> Hi WJ - I am "scribed. This is a great comparison. Do you notice any difference in smell of the plants under the different lights?


Right on, nice to have you! I don't, they are all extremely skunk on the same level.. but I have to basically put my nose on it to smell it because of how much air is moving through there. I'm so excited for this harvest!!


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## IAmKrazy2 (Nov 3, 2011)

sub'd + rep


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## coolj (Nov 3, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Blackstars are sick i pulled 1.6 gpw first run through on my 240


we need to talk bro 4real!


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## sleezy1 (Nov 3, 2011)

I am currently about to harvest a 6 plants under 2 500w Blackstar LEDs. Click on the second link to see my current grow. Harvest will be saturday.


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## WeJuana (Nov 3, 2011)

sleezy1 said:


> I am currently about to harvest a 6 plants under 2 500w Blackstar LEDs. Click on the second link to see my current grow. Harvest will be saturday.


I've been following it! I'm excited for you and to see what you yield. Are you going to weigh in wet and dry? or only after its cured?


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## coolj (Nov 3, 2011)

I would love to do/see a blackstar 500 vs an advanced ds200. damm i wish i could buy both lights and test them!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## coolj (Nov 4, 2011)

As much loot as u guys make the hydro shop with ur R&D they should just give us stuff..I can wait to post my grow I got 6 plants waiting to find the chicks in the group, but im not gonna jackup the thread by posting them under HID


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## coolj (Nov 4, 2011)

Im Thankful for u guys priceless info, u have saved people a ton of Loot Its Like 100 no doubt!!


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## Endur0xX (Nov 4, 2011)

it's been 3 days Wejuana,... 3 DAYS! can you upload some pics


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## hoss12781 (Nov 4, 2011)

We wonder why we get trolls and led hate spewers in our journals. Much of the blame lies with companies passing off this shit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LED-Plant-Grow-Light-Bulb-E27-8W-110V-PAR38-Red-Blue-Light-for-Plant-/170709017300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bf0ce2d4

I'd be straight on the hate wagon if I hadn't bothered to do my proper research and bought something like this. I like to cruze ebay cause you can sometimes find some kick ass deals, that's where I got most of my led lighting. Some of the ads just make my blood boil though. Seriously, take a sec and check this ad, its beyond absurd. Each diode produces .054 watts. Some poor schmuck is about to get a free market invisible hand job to the tune of $122, no lubrication.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

Man I wanna pinh whoever made that light lol wat an asshole shit like hat gets me really heated too hoss as you know I've been usin blackstars since my join date here actually before but I looked at lots of lights and there were other great ones out there at the time too but there was way more shit like the link you posted and I really had to searh hard to find a good light. It really insults my intelligence when people say LEDs are bullshit because of all that research I had to do. It's nice to finally start to see some peoe take them seriously as well as ive converted an hps user as my partner into an led guy he still wants to use his 600 til it dies but he fully believes that LEDs are really truly great lights and we are just workin on stackin up some $ for multiple blackstars and kessils to run. 

The ignorance level of people amaze me growing is an art you can't just go oh and be he shit over night and these people that expect to be able to just buy shit with no prior research or little to none and think that LEDs are bullshit cause they were too fuckin lazy to do research and spend their money on a good product. 

I for one do not like to throw money away and IMO if you don't do your research on ANYTHING for that matter before you purchase it your in for a rude surprise. So in conclusion I concur and it upsets me seein shit like that and upsets me that the trend of late has been ignorance on the part of research before a light purchase. Ive learned ao much about lighting since starting led research it's rerarded. 

Again a big up to wejuana for helpin to spread the truth about LEDs, After he finishes up all his panel testing I'd like to see him take the winning manufacturer and run a watt for watt comparison with a 600led v a 600hps and also a 300watt draw led v a 600 hps. I'd like to see my theory proven that approximately 1/2-2/3 the watt draw of an hps in led output is enough to equal or better yield not to mention blow quality out the water. 

If I could give the guy any more rep I would lol


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## puffenuff (Nov 4, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Man I wanna pinh whoever made that light lol wat an asshole shit like hat gets me really heated too hoss as you know I've been usin blackstars since my join date here actually before but I looked at lots of lights and there were other great ones out there at the time too but there was way more shit like the link you posted and I really had to searh hard to find a good light. It really insults my intelligence when people say LEDs are bullshit because of all that research I had to do. It's nice to finally start to see some peoe take them seriously as well as ive converted an hps user as my partner into an led guy he still wants to use his 600 til it dies but he fully believes that LEDs are really truly great lights and we are just workin on stackin up some $ for multiple blackstars and kessils to run.
> 
> The ignorance level of people amaze me growing is an art you can't just go oh and be he shit over night and these people that expect to be able to just buy shit with no prior research or little to none and think that LEDs are bullshit cause they were too fuckin lazy to do research and spend their money on a good product.
> 
> ...


Sorry to thread jack wejuana...but there's a pretty good comparison on another forum that did a 200w led vs 250w hps and the led yielded nearly double so I think your theory is about correct for the 1/2 to 2/3. I always suspected about the same based on my own experiences as well.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

Nice yea sorry wejuana lol lets get back on topic


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## hoss12781 (Nov 4, 2011)

word on the hps test. I had originally planned to do that myself as I once upon a time had 2 air cooled 400 watters. After I sold one of them to buy my first led lights I was about to set it up, but it was freakin hot in the dirty south summer I wouldn't have been able to run a "fair" watt for watt without adding high speed venting on the hps. HPS without high speed venting was keeping my closet at well over 90 degrees F, not acceptable for proper mj growth. Having used 3w leds for a minute now I am quite sure I know what would happen. Watt for watt leds will wax a hps/mh/cmh/cfl whatever you wanna toss at it. I'd still like to see it done ... for science of course (and maybe to give some trolls something to think about before they start spouting off).


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

I like it for the last reason lol yes fuck them trolls lol



hoss12781 said:


> word on the hps test. I had originally planned to do that myself as I once upon a time had 2 air cooled 400 watters. After I sold one of them to buy my first led lights I was about to set it up, but it was freakin hot in the dirty south summer I wouldn't have been able to run a "fair" watt for watt without adding high speed venting on the hps. HPS without high speed venting was keeping my closet at well over 90 degrees F, not acceptable for proper mj growth. Having used 3w leds for a minute now I am quite sure I know what would happen. Watt for watt leds will wax a hps/mh/cmh/cfl whatever you wanna toss at it. I'd still like to see it done ... for science of course (and maybe to give some trolls something to think about before they start spouting off).


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## MrStickyScissors (Nov 4, 2011)

those clones look like they have a mag. def. and i just cant see why sumone would spend 1500 on a light when you can get a hole 4 light set up with exhaust fan for that much and pull 4 to 5 pounds. is it to save money on electricity? i dont get it.


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## hoss12781 (Nov 4, 2011)

MrStickyScissors said:


> those clones look like they have a mag. def. and i just cant see why sumone would spend 1500 on a light when you can get a hole 4 light set up with exhaust fan for that much and pull 4 to 5 pounds. is it to save money on electricity? i dont get it.


To each his own man, and I agree on the mag def - I have found I've had to add more cal mag to my led plants than I did on my hps plants. Still lets look at the initial cost for a quality 1000w hps set up with venting - probably somewhere around $500 give or take. Look at the cost of a led light that could replace said hps lamp - probably close to a grand, at least this is what it cost to replace 800w of hps in my garden. 

Over the next three years you will have to replace that 1000w bulb at least 5 times to maintain lumen efficacy, you may or may not have to replace a ballast and will most def save a ton of dough on electricity. All this assuming you're lights are under a 3 year warranty from a reputable company the equation does balance itself out in the long haul. 

Also I have jars of nuggets grown under hps (albiet with out high speed venting) and jars grown under led - I reach for the jars of led grown nuggets before the hid ones.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

This makes me smile


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## Endur0xX (Nov 4, 2011)

http://www.urbangrower.com/UG_48_LED_Buds_Week_4.html
http://www.urbangrower.com/UG_49_LED_Buds_at_6_weeks.html


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

Damn could you direct link those u tubes please


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## WeJuana (Nov 4, 2011)

I greatly appreciate everyone that visits this thread and adds knowledge! I would never consider it thread jacking, because honestly, what would be the fun if I was the only one on the thread posting? lol.

Crazy days these last few! Tent updates will be posted in 2/3 hours!

Just got my "trial bag" of STG Hail! This stuff looks interesting!





here is a link to the promotion for anyone interested > http://www.suretogrow.com/stg-hail-promotion


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## WeJuana (Nov 4, 2011)

Day 24 and the buds are looking virtually even in size across the board!
Almost to the half way mark. now things should get very interesting.

Spectra: 






Blackstar:






Penetrator:


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## nasar (Nov 4, 2011)

looking awesome bro keep it up, i'm subd.. 

HGL 336x is packed with crystals followed by Black Star and the GLH spectra.

GLH need to lower their prices to compare against Black Star and HGL 336x seems like a winner but the price is killer for setting up a decent size grow room for multiple number of large plants.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

I'm not all that much more impressed by tricome production I think a blackstar and a reptile bulb would blow that penetrator out on tribune production. It's for sure producing more but not ass loads like I would like to see


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## WeJuana (Nov 4, 2011)

Next feeding ill start using Bloombastic, and that stuff usually kicks off the real growth in my opinion.


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## coolj (Nov 5, 2011)

does anyone know abt these, the look like advanced led lights

http://www.myindoorgarden.com/


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## WeJuana (Nov 5, 2011)

Those are new to me


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## PrezDickie (Nov 5, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I'm not all that much more impressed by tricome production I think a blackstar and a reptile bulb would blow that penetrator out on tribune production. It's for sure producing more but not ass loads like I would like to see


a reptile bulb?


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 5, 2011)

Do a search on UVB and cannabis


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## Endur0xX (Nov 5, 2011)

I heard of UVB bulb not that long ago, I have this one http://www.petsandponds.com/en/reptile-supplies/c194883/c219182/p17022172.html and the right lamp fixture for it : http://www.petsandponds.com/en/reptile-supplies/c195349/p17066721.html, 125W. The bulb gets a little hot but not as bad as I thought, you just need good ventilation. Mine goes on for an hour every other hour, I have it like 6 inches from the top of 1 plant sort of hooked in diagonal so it gives UVB to my full 3x4 space... I dont really see any difference yet, more benefits in flowering I think.

I figured it was a cheap light for what it does ( apparently ) that is why I am using it now.

Indoor reptiles need UVB to stay healthy... for the bones and skin. that is why some growers are using reptile lamp... there is a few growers using them on this forum .

Cheers


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## Endur0xX (Nov 5, 2011)

and coolj, those lights look way overpriced ,.. too expensive for someone always begging like you !! 700$ for 200W!

I wonder what this is all about though:

10. It is the first light ever to feature an innovative CO2 distribution intake point connected to its fans to evenly disperse CO2 over your grow for optimum plant growth.
almost sound useless to me!


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 5, 2011)

I'm tired sick flu shoulda got my flu shot I'm angry kaptain today


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## Endur0xX (Nov 5, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Do a search on UVB and cannabis


For the most part, people are here to learn, it's nice to have the opinion of other RIU user even though google search was made! And some people are just not spending hours on the internet everyday, ... so they can just ask a question, come back a few days later, voila.

Last edited by Endur0xX to be nice 11-05-2011 at 05:36 PM.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 5, 2011)

is the Blackstar 240 as good as a Blackstar 500 if used in half the space? thanks


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 5, 2011)

Psuuuheeeeewwwww I'm sick


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## Endur0xX (Nov 5, 2011)

ok Kap, we are good.. 

back to UVB. this thread is on this forum somewhere:




cannawizard said:


> welcome to my ultra voilet (B) guide, im making this new version on the fly
> 
> 
> ::::so WTF is UVB?  and how does it affect my mj plants?:::::
> ...


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 5, 2011)

It's all good man I know I can be an asshole today especially lol I got the flu my temper isolde in the negative for patience lol  no anyone's fault we just got a pmsin kaptain on our hands today lol


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 5, 2011)

Mindmelted said:


>


Oh boy you don't think a 200wstt draw led will outdo a 250 hps lol your in the wrong thread then buddy lol any 200watt draw panel worth it's salt will put a 250hos to shame so badly you would cry


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## Endur0xX (Nov 5, 2011)

http://ledbudguy.com/showthread.php/2099-Testing-testing-123...

Another good upcoming LEDs VS HID VS MORE LEDS program


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## hippy132 (Nov 5, 2011)

Well shot my wad, bought another GLH Spectra to go with my 2 180's. I purchased the 290 at less than the cost of the 180. So, real interested in this grow.


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## music64 (Nov 5, 2011)

when are there going to be new led lights coming out?


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## puffenuff (Nov 5, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> http://ledbudguy.com/showthread.php/2099-Testing-testing-123...
> 
> Another good upcoming LEDs VS HID VS MORE LEDS program


I'd take that grow comparison with a grain of salt. There was a bunch of concern a while back about whether or not ledbudguy.com was hosted by the same company that makes the magnums.


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## WeJuana (Nov 5, 2011)

Thanks for the link! I didn't know about that forum.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 5, 2011)

Let's get some pics up in here wejuana imma edit my previous post lol lets clean up in here a bit


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## Endur0xX (Nov 5, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Thanks for the link! I didn't know about that forum.


I dont think they ever had much trafic yet... a few nice LED grow journals with good results!


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## WeJuana (Nov 6, 2011)

Spectra





Bud Site






Blackstar





Bud Site






Penetrator





Bud Site


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## cannabuilding (Nov 6, 2011)

great comparison man, read through the whole thing lols took a while.

Looks like the Blackstar and penetrator are the way to go, but it would be a better option to purchase 2x500watt blackstars then 1xpenetrator.

Peace


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## FMCCNate (Nov 6, 2011)

They all look wicked but the penetrator and blackstar are still doing the best. Looks like a bit more resin production from the penatrator.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 6, 2011)

The buds under the penetrator seem to be swelling a little more


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

Just a bit yes


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## maxpesh (Nov 6, 2011)

The reason the Penetrator is starting to go ahead is because of the additional Green leds in there, here is a short passage from the oxford journals as I have pointed this out before.

The literature and our present examinations indicate that the intra-leaf light absorption profile is in most cases steeper than the photosynthetic capacity profile. In strong white light, therefore, the quantum yield of photosynthesis would be lower in the upper chloroplasts, located near the illuminated surface, than that in the lower chloroplasts. Because green light can penetrate further into the leaf than red or blue light, in strong white light, any additional green light absorbed by the lower chloroplasts would increase leaf photosynthesis to a greater extent than would additional red or blue light.

Here is the full article for anyone wanting to kill half an hour
http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/4/684.full


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

I'll read It but I got a real hard time believing that


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## davoswavos (Nov 6, 2011)

I thought trichromes were like sunscreen the plant produces to protect itself I dont think green light is the reason there's more resin I think its just the intensity from the light remember these lights are all at same height for the sake of the experiment even though they would possibly be better off at a different height and that imo is the reason behind the trich production.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 6, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I'll read It but I got a real hard time believing that


Not that I'm trying to be a dick, but what qualifications do you have to even question an Oxford study in the slightest? 
Which part do you find hard to believe? How do you find it hard to believe? 
Was it through testing of your own? 
Or just because you don't "think" it's true?

It makes perfect sense that green light would have an easier time passing through green leaves than red and blue light. So for penetration of leaves that are further down into the canopy green light is recommended. 

Again, not trying to be a dick - I really enjoy your posts!


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

I have a hard time believing because everything I have ever read points to the exact opposite the fact that it penetrates more means nothing plants can't see green. Have you ever done an experiment in grade school with incandescent bulbs (they didn't have cfls when I was a kid) different color bulbs over daisys or tomatoes or somthin the green bulb really didn't do much of anything and the plant eventually would expire if in a CSe. Jus sayin I find it hard to believe not all scientific studies are right ether scientists em make mistakes sometimes. That being said I still haven't read it and when I do my opinion may change. I'll get to it today at some point. Im still kinda sick takin a nap lol woke up to burn


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 6, 2011)

In the army we used red lenses on our flashlights to cut down on the distance the light traveled. I always wondered why red light couldn't be seen from as far away as other colors.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

That is an interesting question indeed. After I make lunch I'll sit down and read this Oxford thingy


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## WeJuana (Nov 6, 2011)

[video=youtube;YZViZVtBRpM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZViZVtBRpM[/video]

I cut these things from the mother when it was showing pre-flowering and now all the plants are carrying on the pre-flowering.


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## maxpesh (Nov 6, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I'll read It but I got a real hard time believing that


I believe it as it is a true study, and I agree with you that Green light on its own does nothing but to put it into laymans terms it is more like a catalyst just as Salt is a catalyst for rusting Iron in the presence of water.


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## maxpesh (Nov 6, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> I thought trichromes were like sunscreen the plant produces to protect itself I dont think green light is the reason there's more resin I think its just the intensity from the light remember these lights are all at same height for the sake of the experiment even though they would possibly be better off at a different height and that imo is the reason behind the trich production.


 I wasn't on about the resin just the size of the bud as it has caught up with the Blackstar and looks as though it will overtake it, but I wouldn't pay the ridiculous price for the Penetrator. The only other company that I know of that is going down this route also is Growstealth (Not Stealthgrow). Is anyone growing with this light as I am torn between another Blackstar and the Growstealth light. Please get back to me if you are


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> I believe it as it is a true study, and I agree with you that Green light on its own does nothing but to put it into laymans terms it is more like a catalyst just as Salt is a catalyst for rusting Iron in the presence of water.


This is exactly why I will read it. See if Im bein an asshole I probably wouldn't read it and say I'm right. But I try and be open minded. Just because somthin makes nonsense with facts I have doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense after I add the missing pieces. Interesting. Instill need to read it I keep gettin distracted damn add


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> I wasn't on about the resin just the size of the bud as it has caught up with the Blackstar and looks as though it will overtake it, but I wouldn't pay the ridiculous price for the Penetrator. The only other company that I know of that is going down this route also is Growstealth (Not Stealthgrow). Is anyone growing with this light as I am torn between another Blackstar and the Growstealth light. Please get back to me if you are


Gonna look at his grow stealthight another company on the cheap makin Legit shit is going to help our cause of LEDs takin over the grow game


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## jubiare (Nov 6, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> but I wouldn't pay the ridiculous price for the Penetrator. The only other company that I know of that is going down this route also is Growstealth (Not Stealthgrow).


http://www.eshinesystems.com/grow/3g-126x3w-led-grow-light.html
eshinesystem, they are the ones they claim they make the penetrator! They sell the 126 X lenses 3w or 1w WITH THE SAME SPECTRUM AS HGL (green in the middle). 440/470/525/640/660/740nm
Price range? 250 - 280 dollars! What do you guys make of that?


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## WeJuana (Nov 6, 2011)

jubiare said:


> http://www.eshinesystems.com/grow/3g-126x3w-led-grow-light.html
> eshinesystem, they are the ones they claim they make the penetrator! They sell the 126 X lenses 3w or 1w WITH THE SAME SPECTRUM AS HGL (green in the middle). 440/470/525/640/660/740nm
> Price range? 250 - 280 dollars! What do you guys make of that?


Those lenses look completely different than the penetrator.. same manufacturer though huh? interesting


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## jubiare (Nov 6, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Those lenses look completely different than the penetrator.. same manufacturer though huh? interesting


interesting isn't it? That's when I say that most companies are ripping us off, led panels could have already more reasonable prices in my opinion!
they are made in china anyway, aren't they? most of them are.. 

Anyway Wejuana, thanks for doing this, we are seeing lights capibilities here, and we are throwing in loads of stuff.
I got a suggestion for you, why don't you also add a 357 Magnum Plus to your experiments? They might just give you the light for it


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## WeJuana (Nov 6, 2011)

jubiare said:


> interesting isn't it? That's when I say that most companies are ripping us off, led panels could have already more reasonable prices in my opinion!
> they are made in china anyway, aren't they? most of them are..
> 
> Anyway Wejuana, thanks for doing this, we are seeing lights capibilities here, and we are throwing in loads of stuff.
> I got a suggestion for you, why don't you also add a 357 Magnum Plus to your experiments? They might just give you the light for it


I've actually considered popping up another tent or 2, and have had a numerous LED companies contact me up wanting in on the comparison, but I would really be crammed for space. As of now, I don't see the benefits outweighing the aggravation. I may switch out LEDs in the future though with different makes/models. Magnum was definitely one of the higher lights on my list to test (along with Advanced and now these Eshines lol)


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

Yes what's the deal with that lol another blackstar like company? I like it


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

I find that light to be questionable I could be wrong but that's just me. No mention of wattage draw or anything of the sort


----------



## jubiare (Nov 6, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I find that light to be questionable I could be wrong but that's just me. No mention of wattage draw or anything of the sort


about 200w draw for the 3w, I was told by email


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

Ah ok now im interested in it again lol i just hate it when they don't advertise it lol not bad draw at all should be able to do some nice nug if it's any good


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## FMCCNate (Nov 6, 2011)

I was told the eshine will make a 400x3 what light using any spectrum and your choice of angle on the lens


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

Nice 400 watt draw ?? Clean can I get tri angle like blackstar 120 90 and 60 degree lenses intermingled


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## intensive (Nov 6, 2011)

I was really hoping that since the last time I looked, in 08, that leds were ready to do some work. especially after reading the ingenuity behind the angleing of the lights with the different pars and uv influences. then I read threads with half wit growers, taking clones that are stressed and flowering...or burning the shit out of their flowers during a led light comparison. oblivious to their naive ignorance and trying to sound like old time pro's. 

I am sticking with my hid, and now you can flood this 1000 more posts, who knows, maybe somebody will do somthing worthwhile eventually with these lights.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 6, 2011)

Lol gotta love a troll. I think I'll quote subcool on this one. If there's haters you must bein doin somthin right lol


----------



## WeJuana (Nov 7, 2011)

lol I love it. Its funny because people come try to knock what I am doing by making outlandish claims which are supposed to give such a negative connotation of me, but they just show how invalid what they say is. Such as you imply I made myself seem like some old time experienced grower (when in reality it seems like you came on my thread to school me). Re-read all 57 pages and you'll see factually there is no mention of me saying anything about how long I have been growing or how much skill I do or do not have. I am not here to impress anybody or to try and change your opinion, but merely show my grow. 

*All I have said time and time again is I am here to provide nothing but a record of my results throughout the grow comparing different LED lights.. and if people ask questions I will answer to the best of my ability.

You act like reading this thready wasted your time by any means? Either you learn they work, or your learn they don't, depending on your perspective. Either way your learning so how can you lose?*


----------



## Endur0xX (Nov 7, 2011)

jubiare said:


> http://www.eshinesystems.com/grow/3g-126x3w-led-grow-light.html
> eshinesystem, they are the ones they claim they make the penetrator! They sell the 126 X lenses 3w or 1w WITH THE SAME SPECTRUM AS HGL (green in the middle). 440/470/525/640/660/740nm
> Price range? 250 - 280 dollars! What do you guys make of that?


it looks to me that a lot of companies are ordering the light from the same dispenswer in China for really cheap and making a killing selling them in America... I mean the body of this light is exactly the same as my Advanced... At least black star put a little sticker on theirs! haha


----------



## jubiare (Nov 7, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> it looks to me that a lot of companies are ordering the light from the same dispenswer in China for really cheap and making a killing selling them in America... I mean the body of this light is exactly the same as my Advanced... At least black star put a little sticker on theirs! haha


EXACTLY!
Mind they said (eshine), they actually make the advanced both series.. but advanced has paid for the exlusive of their lights.. so they cannot be provided by them.
Penetrator hasn't paid the exclusive, apart from the red casing design, that's what they have said.
Blackstar has fairer prices .. they are actually one thing factory in china/business in America. (again, that's what they said <---Blackstar)
It could be that eshine is lying and they just make copies? It could.
What if they are not lying?
And anyway, even if they are lying, there is somewhere in china where they really make all the lights, if it's not eshine it's someone else, or eshine and an other fews.
WE LOVE LED LIGHTS, BUT HEY, YOU GUYS FROM COMPANIES, STOP TAKING THE PISS AND ADJUST YOUR BLOODY PRICES!!!
or start using proper good diodes (Luxeon Rebel, Ledengin, Osram Golden Dragon and Cree xp-e), than we can talk about higher prices!!!


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

^^^indeed sir all I have to say is fuck off if u think I'm paying for a Briglux panel that cost fuckin 500 plus bucks lol I feel that man


----------



## jubiare (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> ^^^indeed sir all I have to say is fuck off if u think I'm paying for a Briglux panel that cost fuckin 500 plus bucks lol I feel that man


and you have to be lucky if it's bridgelux (they are actually not too bad)!! Most likely you'll end up with most diodes being Epistar, edison or even worse


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Good thing my blackstar is 98% Cree lol


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

I hate to shit on your bonfire mate, but your Blackstar is most certainly not 98% Cree


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

it is man there's one spectrum in the panel that cree doesn't make LEDs for. Thhey use bridgelux for those I believe


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

mohawke said:


> I hate to shit on your bonfire mate, but your Blackstar is most certainly not 98% Cree


Just checked eBay and sent them an email again your sadly mistaken it's cree LEDs I know because I made sure before input the money out for it thanks for your time.


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## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

I think you need to do a little research and not take the words of an led grow light company as gospel. Think what you will, but I am telling you they are not Cree.


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

mohawke said:


> I think you need to do a little research and not take the words of an led grow light company as gospel. Think what you will, but I am telling you they are not Cree.


3 posts 2 of them shitting on blackstar and 1 defending spectra who are you? what are you growing with? what research have you done?


----------



## Beefbisquit (Nov 7, 2011)

E.shine 126x1w is $249 USD and uses Bridgelux and Epistar LED's. 

Actual Power draw is 126w (probably actually a little less than that)


E.shine 126x3 is $320 USD and uses the same Bridgelux and Epistar LED's

Actual power draw is 252w (the 3w LED's are run @ 2w)

This is from the support staff @ eshinesystems.com

EDIT: 1) 1W, 3W LEDs with Cree, Epistar and bridgelux brand in all available spectrums. Standard grow lights are with 
Epistar 660nm red & bridgelux 455nm blue; Standard aquarium lights are with bridgelux 12000K white & 
455nm blue.
2) 90 degree bean angle LEDs with 30, 60, 90 degree optical lens. Lens can choosen to add, or add partly, or mix 
dierent degree ones.
3) Reach MOQ 30 units to make your own LED array besides square and round based on same LED quantity to 
be exclusive.
4) Switches - switch on/o dierent groups, it is the default setting for grow lights.
5) Power cords - Separately power cords for dierent groups/colors, it is the default setting for aquarium lights.
6) Controller - simulate sunrise and sunset, free settings for diererent time ( 0-24 hours) and dierent intensity 
(0%-100%).
7) Installation - hang kits and bracket
 Other ttings - 1-way programmable timer and 3-way programmable timer


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## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> 3 posts 2 of them shitting on blackstar and 1 defending spectra who are you? what are you growing with? what research have you done?


Dude, I aint shitting on Blackstar, far from it. I salute them for offering what is the essentially the same product as everyone elses at a much lower cost. Plus, I think the results from this grow are fuckin awesome.

What I don't agree with is the false advertising. And, I wasn't defending Spectra - I was simply saying that a fair test would consider the difference in lens types and the need to just heights accordingly.


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

whatever helps you sleep at night bro.


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

Oh but please do enlighten us and tell us what diodes blackstar lights really have in them.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> 3 posts 2 of them shitting on blackstar and 1 defending spectra who are you? what are you growing with? what research have you done?


Thanks I was about to say the same fuckin troll where's ur research u take apart a blackstar and look at he internal components because I could link a thread where they did and ran all the pns on the internal components. But a troll wouldn't be interested in facts anyways. Lol what a joke


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> Oh but please do enlighten us and tell us what diodes blackstar lights really have in them.


Blackstar uses unbranded Chinese LED Chips. How do I know this? Because I know the company that they get their lights from. How do I know this? I have been importing and exporting LED grow lights for the past 2 years. I have numerous contacts in the industry and know just about everything there is to know on the many companies that we are all familiar with. 
The truth is that most of the LED grow lights that we are familiar with come from a handful of LED grow light manufacturers in China. Most of them use the same parts and the same LED Chips.
I am not here to sell my wares, and I usually remain silent on these forums. 
This in an industry stooped in lies, scams and misinformation. My advice - Do your research and NEVER take the word of an LED grow light retailer as fact.


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Thanks I was about to say the same fuckin troll where's ur research u take apart a blackstar and look at he internal components because I could link a thread where they did and ran all the pns on the internal components. But a troll wouldn't be interested in facts anyways. Lol what a joke


Someone informs you that you are wrong, so you label them as a troll - That's the real joke right there.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

No u inform us with a bunch of hearsay man there's no proof anywhere in there besides he word of a three post noob on this forum


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Next this guys gonna try and tell us kessil makes all heir lights in Vietnam lol. Seriously man lol


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> No u inform us with a bunch of hearsay man there's no proof anywhere in there besides he word of a three post noob on this forum


Keep on believing what they want you believe...ignorance is bliss eh?


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Next this guys gonna try and tell us kessil makes all heir lights in Vietnam lol. Seriously man lol


Next this guy is going to tell us that Blackstar uses Cree chips!lol...oh wait, he already did.lol


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

First off u have not added anything to this thread besides antagonistic ramblings of which u have no proof lets see some proof. But u don't have any do u? Nor would I care. I've seen enough to know that at this moment I'm using the best LEDs available to us bang for the buck.

So until u get some real proof u can stop wasting your breath man not all led manufacturers are scum and shady no matter how much u would like to believe it.


----------



## puffenuff (Nov 7, 2011)

Damn, this thread has really changed directions! Wejuana!!! Where are you? Updates please to get us back on track!


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Someone needs to check this weak ass hater lol got nothin no links no emails to show no proof no nothin


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> First off u have not added anything to this thread besides antagonistic ramblings of which u have no proof lets see some proof. But u don't have any do u? Nor would I care. I've seen enough to know that at this moment I'm using the best LEDs available to us bang for the buck.
> 
> So until u get some real proof u can stop wasting your breath man not all led manufacturers are scum and shady no matter how much u would like to believe it.


Antagonistic ramblings? I think not...You stated that Blackstar uses Cree chips, I told you, and quite rightly, that they do not. PROOF - look on the Cree website http://www.cree.com , they DO NOT make the chips that Blackstar state are Cree chips - They are not even the right shape! Surely, that would have been your first port of call in your so called "research".

I agree with you that Blackstar are the most cost effective solution at present, apart from sourcing the lights yourself from China. But going back to my original post, If you remember, I did not slate Blackstar - I merely stated that they do not use Cree. The hostility has come from your end dude - You have heard something that you did not want to hear, and have reacted (badly) to it.

Of course, not all LED grow light manufactures are scum (did I even use that word?). But many (not all) of the LED grow light retailers (A manufacuter and retailer are 2 different things by the way) do employ some fairly shady tactics to get at your hard earned cash.


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

dude mohawk how bout no more posting for you unless you plan on showing us the proof your words are nothing have you even used an led or do you just sell them?


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## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

http://www.cree.com - Theres your proof


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## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

Mohawke so what led lights do you sell? also what are your recommendations? can you beat the blackstar in price and results?

like davoswavos says you should do a grow journal to show us the best lights proven to grow and at good prices.

Blackstar is proven and is a winner at moment, although you have mentioned they don't use CREE leds.


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

Ok so the red, white, and blue are cree chips and the couple UV and IR chips are something else just as stated before. What are you trying to prove that blackstar has a couple cheap leds in it? your just trying to talk shit about blackstar but since you can't find anything wrong with the performance you bring this up. Cree makes the 460nm, 630nm and 12k.


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## tongue001 (Nov 7, 2011)

This is a very good journal so don't spoil it. I think the blackstars led are great and have very good performance for their price. My personal led light is the penetrator 84xpro and I am very happy with it. The penetrator did it for me due to it's modular design which means no down. But if someone that on a tight budget ask my recommendation it would definitely be blackstar .In life everyone has their choice to choose what suits them best. So let's stop arguing and let wejuana get on with his journal. Great comparison and journal wejuana


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## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

I believe wejauna is going to do a duplicate journal without all the other posts so this isn't spoiling anything its just learning with alot of bickering.


----------



## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

another led testing going on 
www.ledgrow.eu


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## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

nasar said:


> Mohawke so what led lights do you sell? also what are your recommendations? can you beat the blackstar in price and results?
> 
> like davoswavos says you should do a grow journal to show us the best lights proven to grow and at good prices.
> 
> Blackstar is proven and is a winner at moment, although you have mentioned they don't use CREE leds.


I do not advertise/sell my wares on these forums. I see these forums as a way to educate and be educated.

Based on the 3 lights mentioned in this thread, I would recommend the Blackstar with the price being its biggest selling point.


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> Ok so the red, white, and blue are cree chips and the couple UV and IR chips are something else just as stated before. What are you trying to prove that blackstar has a couple cheap leds in it? your just trying to talk shit about blackstar but since you can't find anything wrong with the performance you bring this up. Cree makes the 460nm, 630nm and 12k.


I am not trying to prove anything. When have I talked shit about the Blackstar? Someone said the Blackstar uses Cree chips and I corrected them.

My advice to you? Stop being an ignorant buffoon.


----------



## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

www.plantphotonics.com

anyone checked these lights out they seem to be pretty decent.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

mohawke said:


> I am not trying to prove anything. When have I talked shit about the Blackstar? Someone said the Blackstar uses Cree chips and I corrected them.
> 
> My advice to you? Stop being an ignorant buffoon.


Wow now he's calling people ignorant buffoons after someone obviously proved him wrong he even proved himself wrong linking Crees website he exact fuxkin LEDs blackstar uses aRe right fuckin there. Not all the LEDs in the blackstar are cree as fuckin stated before. 
Ir and uv LEDs in the blackstar panel do not come from cree... The fact u think u can win this argument with a link to crees website is pathetic. Especially when thousands have viewed it and he blackstar and a lot of people on his forum who I hold in much higher regard than u have confirmed that. Go troll somewhere else


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Wow now he's calling people ignorant buffoons after someone obviously proved him wrong he even proved himself wrong linking Crees website he exact fuxkin LEDs blackstar uses aRe right fuckin there. Not all the LEDs in the blackstar are cree as fuckin stated before.
> Ir and uv LEDs in the blackstar panel do not come from cree... The fact u think u can win this argument with a link to crees website is pathetic. Especially when thousands have viewed it and he blackstar and a lot of people on his forum who I hold in much higher regard than u have confirmed that. Go troll somewhere else


Are you a f*cking idiot?
How did someone prove me wrong? Where are the "exact fuxkin LEDs blackstar uses aRe right fuckin there"? Can you show me them on the website?


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

nasar said:


> www.plantphotonics.com
> 
> anyone checked these lights out they seem to be pretty decent.


1200 bucks for 280 watter though ouch


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

nasar said:


> www.plantphotonics.com
> 
> anyone checked these lights out they seem to be pretty decent.


High-Quality lights - They reflect the true cost of led grow lights using Cree chips.


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

mohawke said:


> Are you a f*cking idiot?
> How did someone prove me wrong? Where are the "exact fuxkin LEDs blackstar uses aRe right fuckin there"? Can you show me them on the website?


I could show you where there at but that would be silly since you posted the link. I found them just fine.


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

OK - Post the link where you found them?


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

mohawke said:


> OK - Post the link where you found them?


 Go look maybe a little harder I'm not going to hold your fucking hand.


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> Go look maybe a little harder I'm not going to hold your fucking hand.


Dude - Prove it. Post the link. You have not found them, because Cree do not make the ones the Blackstar uses. You are a lyer. You have not found them, but in attempt to uphold your integrity on this forum, you are saying that you have, when you most certainly have not. Idiot.


----------



## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

plantphotonics leds are cree but i hope to see a grow with these bad boys. Sold on ebay £200 for 70 watts.

and check out www.ledgrow.eu this guy has independent tests showing him grow his herb with the lights he is making and testing.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

I've been following that on and off since the beginning not a big fan of his spectrum look at his plants scraggly stretchy growth and to my knowledge and I admit to not reading every page there I have not seen any decent results from his panel at all. 

As for the other panel At 700 pounds for a 280watt draw light that's fuckin out of control expensive 1100 dollars for 300ish watts of draw that's approaching penetrator territory no thanks I'd rather build my own using Crees and Luxeon and SETI LEDs which the latter being ass expensive for UVB on the panel if I was going to pay that much and have a more full spectrum than that panel

That being Said I'm sure that panel would perform excellently


----------



## mohawke (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Wow now he's calling people ignorant buffoons after someone obviously proved him wrong he even proved himself wrong linking Crees website he exact fuxkin LEDs blackstar uses aRe right fuckin there. Not all the LEDs in the blackstar are cree as fuckin stated before.
> Ir and uv LEDs in the blackstar panel do not come from cree... The fact u think u can win this argument with a link to crees website is pathetic. Especially when thousands have viewed it and he blackstar and a lot of people on his forum who I hold in much higher regard than u have confirmed that. Go troll somewhere else


Are you a f*cking idiot?
How did someone prove me wrong? Where are the "exact fuxkin LEDs blackstar uses aRe right fuckin there"? Can you show me them on the website?


----------



## WeJuana (Nov 7, 2011)

Woah. Good morning/afternoon everyone. Popped my head in to see how the thread was rolling.. 

I'm not making any accusations towards anybody singly, but from now on this a rule: There will be no name calling or personal attacks. If you disagree with what is said, then discuss on the topic that is disagreed upon to hopefully learn something new. Name calling will only put the name called on the defensive state, which inhibits their desire to intake new information and learn. I know most of us here want to learn and have the option to teach as well so please keep to comments directed towards the topic and not the person.


----------



## Beefbisquit (Nov 7, 2011)

Hmmm... Ok, I'm all for blackstar, but I just checked out growboys.com on dnsstuff.com.

I gotta say, it doesn't look good.

Registrar: FastDomain Inc.
Provider Name....: BlueHost.Com
Provider Whois...: whois.bluehost.com
Provider Homepage: http://www.bluehost.com/

Domain Name: GROWBOYS.COM

Created on..............: 2009-08-02 07:06:33 GMT
Expires on..............: 2012-08-02 07:06:33 GMT
Last modified on........: 2011-08-03 07:06:35 GMT

Registrant Info: (FAST-13908454)

Sean Stockmeyer
57a Lafayette Ave - Suite 4
Suffern, New York 10960
United States
Phone: +1.9146611018
Fax..:
Email: ***********@solosmedia.com
Last modified: 2010-07-27 22:08:48 GMT

Administrative Info: (FAST-13908454)

Sean Stockmeyer
57a Lafayette Ave - Suite 4
Suffern, New York 10960
United States
Phone: +1.9146611018
Fax..:
Email: ***********@solosmedia.com
Last modified: 2010-07-27 22:08:48 GMT

Technical Info: (FAST-12785240)
Bluehost.com
Bluehost Inc 
1958 South 950 East
Provo, Utah 84604
United States
Phone: +1.8017659400
Fax..: +1.8017651992
Email: *****@bluehost.com
Last modified: 2010-12-06 18:43:32 GMT

Status: Locked

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.BLUEHOST.COM
NS2.BLUEHOST.COM
=-=-=-=


The owner of growboys registered address is 177ft away from gotham hydroponics.

33 Park Ave
Suffern, New York 10901 

and 

57a Lafayette Ave - Suite 4
Suffern, New York 10960


Check it out on google maps if you don't believe me....




It *LOOKS* like Gotham Hydroponics probably "is" Lighthouse Hydro, and they created a site to give themselves an award. I am REALLY damn curious about who makes the LED's in my Blackstar's now.... They still work amazingly for the money, but I feel slightly lied to.




EDIT: Ok, here's the whois for gothamhydroponics.com;

Registrar: FastDomain Inc.
Provider Name....: BlueHost.Com
Provider Whois...: whois.bluehost.com
Provider Homepage: http://www.bluehost.com/

Domain Name: GOTHAMHYDROPONICS.COM

Created on..............: 2010-02-02 23:31:49 GMT
Expires on..............: 2013-02-02 23:31:50 GMT
Last modified on........: 2011-10-26 13:01:08 GMT

Registrant Info: (FAST-12785240)
Bluehost.com
Bluehost Inc 
1958 South 950 East
Provo, Utah 84604
United States
Phone: +1.8017659400
Fax..: +1.8017651992
Email: *****@bluehost.com
Last modified: 2010-12-06 18:43:32 GMT

Administrative Info: (FAST-12785240)
Bluehost.com
Bluehost Inc 
1958 South 950 East
Provo, Utah 84604
United States
Phone: +1.8017659400
Fax..: +1.8017651992
Email: *****@bluehost.com
Last modified: 2010-12-06 18:43:32 GMT

Technical Info: (FAST-12785240)
Bluehost.com
Bluehost Inc 
1958 South 950 East
Provo, Utah 84604
United States
Phone: +1.8017659400
Fax..: +1.8017651992
Email: *****@bluehost.com
Last modified: 2010-12-06 18:43:32 GMT

Status: Locked

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.BLUEHOST.COM
NS2.BLUEHOST.COM
=-=-=-=

They've both been registered by the same company, at the same address.... hmmm

*LINK TO THE MAP SO YOU CAN SEE FOR YOURSELF*


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

mohawke said:


> Dude - Prove it. Post the link. You have not found them, because Cree do not make the ones the Blackstar uses. You are a lyer. You have not found them, but in attempt to uphold your integrity on this forum, you are saying that you have, when you most certainly have not. Idiot.


Keep on trolling lol classic. 

Oh and to the above poster about the grow boys award that's been gone over its been a known fact since about 2009 that hat award was a fake. Still doesn't say anything though about who's makin their LEDs and its cree. They did it because heir prices were so much lower than any other working LEDs they had to give themselves some credibility unfortunately it backfired royally in their face. Why don't u contact blackstar Mohawk and tell hen their full of shit instead of trying to prove something u obviously cant


----------



## PrezDickie (Nov 7, 2011)

i'll never understand why discussion on plant growing can bring out such nasty behavior and attitude in some people. I'm thankful to all the people who can spread knowledge or even questions thru our growers' community and do it in a civil manner. I'm also an MMA fan (UFC) and i don't even bother with those forums or discussions because its all nasty & trolls. what an odd compulsion to spew hate on strangers online...


----------



## Beefbisquit (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Keep on trolling lol classic.
> 
> Oh and to the above poster about the grow boys award that's been gone over its been a known fact since about 2009 that hat award was a fake. Still doesn't say anything though about who's makin their LEDs and its cree. They did it because heir prices were so much lower than any other working LEDs they had to give themselves some credibility unfortunately it backfired royally in their face. Why don't u contact blackstar Mohawk and tell hen their full of shit instead of trying to prove something u obviously cant


Unfortunately no one knows, unless someone takes their Blackstar apart and checks to see if CREE LED's were used. (And they know how to differentiate between LED brands).

Don't get me wrong, I love my Blackstars... they work great, but I'm not exactly 100% sure whether CREE LED's were used...


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Still lookin for it but someone on this forum has pulled their blackstar apart to build a better hear sync for it they checked and confirmed LEDs Its why I keep sayin they crees besides my countless hours of research on them that's been documented here since my join date and I was researching em even before that too. Unlike some people in here I wont be offended if you tell me I'm wrong and have proof. But people that just spout nonsens off the top of their head with no credibity whatsoever do offend me because it's pointless hate on an led that's doin nothin but good for everyone usin it. 

Haters are gonna hate and they are just ginna hate harder if your doin something right



Beefbisquit said:


> Unfortunately no one knows, unless someone takes their Blackstar apart and checks to see if CREE LED's were used. (And they know how to differentiate between LED brands).
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love my Blackstars... they work great, but I'm not exactly 100% sure whether CREE LED's were used...


----------



## organicbynature (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Still lookin for it but someone on this forum has pulled their blackstar apart to build a better hear sync for it they checked and confirmed LEDs Its why I keep sayin they crees besides my countless hours of research on them that's been documented here since my join date and I was researching em even before that too. Unlike some people in here I wont be offended if you tell me I'm wrong and have proof. But people that just spout nonsens off the top of their head with no credibity whatsoever do offend me because it's pointless hate on an led that's doin nothin but good for everyone usin it.
> 
> Haters are gonna hate and they are just ginna hate harder if your doin something right


I think this is the thread you're looking for, though I haven't read through it all myself - Blackstar 240W LED Dissected and Upgraded!


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Close but no cigar I thought that was it too there was another guy on here that did it too but he went way into depth 

Good link though lol if anyone's wondering about the 80x2w thing in that link I'm pretty sure it was found to be an older model I can't remember it wasn't talked about in that thread


----------



## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

guys PRAKASA makes led lights similar to blackstars, wejuana are you using the flowering or veg light from blackstar? anyone tried them?


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## stak (Nov 7, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> I could show you where there at but that would be silly since you posted the link. I found them just fine.




I found the spectrums used in a blackstar light on their website http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/featured-products/blackstar-240w-led-grow-light-3w-cree.html

- Red: 630, 660nm
- Blue: 425nm
- Infrared: 730nm 
- Ultraviolet: 380nm
- White: 12000k

but I can't find documentation for any of those spectrums on the cree website. I came close with one of the red's that blackstar uses but that's about it.


----------



## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

http://www.growstealthled.com/Gs600-Quantum-P43C8.aspx

http://www.prakasa.co.uk/

www.ledfusion.co.uk


----------



## ledgrowing (Nov 7, 2011)

mohawk is right cree is not used in black star two of my 3 black star pannels died well half the lights anyhow. they are poorly made thats why there cheaper. they work good due to proper angles and spectrum but the lights arwe cheap and there warranty sucks. if you have or use a blackstar always have a back up light you never know when its going to quit


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 7, 2011)

2011 models are different and you couldn't have had one long enough to break.


----------



## ledgrowing (Nov 7, 2011)

granted this could be true but my lights are 8months old now been fucked for 2 so 6 month life span kinda shitty for led no?


----------



## stak (Nov 7, 2011)

ledgrowing said:


> mohawk is right cree is not used in black star two of my 3 black star pannels died well half the lights anyhow. they are poorly made thats why there cheaper. they work good due to proper angles and spectrum but the lights arwe cheap and there warranty sucks. if you have or use a blackstar always have a back up light you never know when its going to quit


uh oh, be prepared to be attacked by the blackstar defenders for not posting positively about those lights.


----------



## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I've been following that on and off since the beginning not a big fan of his spectrum look at his plants scraggly stretchy growth and to my knowledge and I admit to not reading every page there I have not seen any decent results from his panel at all.
> 
> As for the other panel At 700 pounds for a 280watt draw light that's fuckin out of control expensive 1100 dollars for 300ish watts of draw that's approaching penetrator territory no thanks I'd rather build my own using Crees and Luxeon and SETI LEDs which the latter being ass expensive for UVB on the panel if I was going to pay that much and have a more full spectrum than that panel
> 
> That being Said I'm sure that panel would perform excellently


Yo kaptain kron this guy from www.ledgrow.eu is improving day by day you should look at his results also these other sites like

http://www.prakasa.co.uk/index.php

http://www.growstealthled.com/Gs600-Quantum-P43C8.aspx

http://www.ledfusion.co.uk/

http://www.plantphotonics.com/ (is very pricey but i think the prices need to come down for people to try them out)


----------



## ledgrowing (Nov 7, 2011)

if the truth hurts im so sorry i have tried many different lights i like the porduction of black star but the quality of the light is shit like it or lump it


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## WeJuana (Nov 7, 2011)

nasar said:


> guys PRAKASA makes led lights similar to blackstars, wejuana are you using the flowering or veg light from blackstar? anyone tried them?


Im using the 500w flower version


----------



## Beefbisquit (Nov 7, 2011)

Hmmm strangely enough, it doesn't say anything about CREE LED's on gotham hydro anymore...


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## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

thanks thought it was so how is it like in veg? any good as it is confusing having to use the veg light for vegging and flowering light for flower production. i'd prefer a light that is good for veg and flower.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

ledgrowing said:


> if the truth hurts im so sorry i have tried many different lights i like the porduction of black star but the quality of the light is shit like it or lump it


Sorry to hear u have had problems man I've had nothin but good luck with my panel but just cause IRS died is no reason to say they aren't using crees there's many reason they coulda died most likely a bad solder joint. Don't blame the led blame quality control in china on their workers. I know lots of people wih these lights and not one complaint ive only seen three people on this forum even say they died. I've had mine since my join date basically and not a single issue


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Hmmm strangely enough, it doesn't say anything about CREE LED's on gotham hydro anymore...


Where I was just there not an hour sho and I saw it still there in their adds


----------



## Beefbisquit (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Where I was just there not an hour sho and I saw it still there in their adds


Well, I'm there now.

And there's no mention of CREE anywhere that I can find. Could you post a link perhaps?

EDIT: No mention on Lighthouse Hydro's site either....

The bestselling LED on Ebay just got better. Redesigned for 2012, the BlackStar 240W UV is perfect for any size grow. Each unit covers 6 square feet (3'x2'). Use them in bulk for nice even coverage over larger areas. The BlacStar line has the best selling LED Grow Lights in the world for a reason - YOU CAN'T BEAT this combination of power and price! For this price you can gang them up and have a wonderful uniform grow and still get the peak PAR penetration that the 3 Watts chips deliver. This unit has 6 Bands (6 unique color wavelengths), and uses 3W LED diodes for the best possible light penetration.


Specifications:
- Size: 15.75" x 8.375"
- Coverage Area: 3' x 2' (6 Square Feet)
- LED Chipset: 3W
- Number of LED's: 80
- Rated Hours: 50,000
- Bands: 6 Band
- Red: 630, 660nm
- Blue: 425nm
- Infrared: 730nm 
- Ultraviolet: 380nm
- White: 12000k
- Worldwide Voltage: 90v-240v
- Modular Power Cord (Available in US, UK, EU, AU)
- Warranty: 1 Year All Inclusive


----------



## ledgrowing (Nov 7, 2011)

but i fixed my pannel and sold it i had it open they look nothing like a cree light. it was a bad solder point. and piss poor drivers as well


----------



## WeJuana (Nov 7, 2011)

nasar said:


> thanks thought it was so how is it like in veg? any good as it is confusing having to use the veg light for vegging and flowering light for flower production. i'd prefer a light that is good for veg and flower.


I am using a 900w flower Blackstar in my mother tent, which is the same hue as the 500w flower, just more lights. It's doing good in veg so far. I haven't used the 500w in veg, only 240w High Outputs (veg model) and the 900.


----------



## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

so you have a 900watt flower model in your mother tent and a 240watt veg model? as i did read you had 2 led panels in the tent so 1 900 watter and a 240 watter is that right Wejuana!


----------



## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

nasar said:


> http://www.growstealthled.com/Gs600-Quantum-P43C8.aspx
> 
> http://www.prakasa.co.uk/
> 
> www.ledfusion.co.uk


www.ledgrow.eu

no one checking these sites for these led panels? meant to be good for price and results one of the sites are comparing the spectra 290 with another 300 watt model from growstealthled.
Have people on this forum used the prakasa led panels?


----------



## WeJuana (Nov 7, 2011)

nasar said:


> so you have a 900watt flower model in your mother tent and a 240watt veg model? as i did read you had 2 led panels in the tent so 1 900 watter and a 240 watter is that right Wejuana!


No currently just the 900w in the mother tent. I am currently using a 240w Blackstar over the EZ Clone 30 machine, and 1 Blackstar 240w and 2 Spectra 150w to veg the 2nd round of LA Con clones.


----------



## WeJuana (Nov 7, 2011)

nasar said:


> www.ledgrow.eu
> 
> no one checking these sites for these led panels? meant to be good for price and results one of the sites are comparing the spectra 290 with another 300 watt model from growstealthled.
> Have people on this forum used the prakasa led panels?


I have heard of Prakasa, very good things actually, but I haven't personally seen them or had any experience.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Blackstar flower is all u need for anything IMO heir veg models are redundant unless maybe using it exclusively for get say like mothering


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Every single one of their eBay adds says cree contact em and ask every time I have he's told me the exact part numbers and everything I wish i could find the email but my box is smashed full with thousands of emails I'm lookin for it but it could take a while


----------



## Beefbisquit (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Every single one of their eBay adds says cree contact em and ask every time I have he's told me the exact part numbers and everything I wish i could find the email but my box is smashed full with thousands of emails I'm lookin for it but it could take a while


Ok, so ebay says one thing, and gotham's site and lighthouse hydro's site both don't mention CREE LED's.... seems at least worth investigating...


----------



## jubiare (Nov 7, 2011)

nasar said:


> plantphotonics leds are cree but i hope to see a grow with these bad boys. Sold on ebay £200 for 70 watts.
> 
> and check out www.ledgrow.eu this guy has independent tests showing him grow his herb with the lights he is making and testing.


Plantphotonics uses this:
red 630nm is cree xp-e
red 660nm is Ledengin 5w driven at 3w
the mix of the two blue is bridgelux
the white is cree as well

THE GUY IS OFFERING REALLY GOOD PANELS
IT'S WAY BETTER THAN ALL COMMERCIAL LED PANELS, HONESTLY!

yes I know, they are some pricey. I AM TELLING YOU:
with good diodes, you need less watts for good results.
check this thread out, "stealth cabinets". It's here on rollitup, a guy is using the 280w panel

Also, the theory of narrowed degree angles goes to hell here;
with cheap diodes, it is a valid one.
But with good diodes (CREE XP-E is 130 degree angle, osram golden dragon is 170 degree angle) PENETRATION AND GROWING IS ALL GOOD!

There is an other amazing thread you can learn a lot from, there is this guy using a diy osram golden dragon panel
"DIY LED osram 175 watt soil"


----------



## nasar (Nov 7, 2011)

i cant find the thread for the 280 watt panel really want to see results.


----------



## WeJuana (Nov 7, 2011)

Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Aww blackstar what happened falling behind


----------



## Endur0xX (Nov 7, 2011)

mohawke said:


> Someone informs you that you are wrong, so you label them as a troll - That's the real joke right there.


 I agree... Kaptain Kron, sick are not, it makes no difference... I erased and edited a bunch of post for you the other day so you dont look like an asshole and here you are again... cant believe it. Where I am from , we call people like you Mr. Joe knows Everything, and they are annoying type of people...

EDIT:




Kaptain Kron said:


> Someone needs to check this weak ass hater lol got nothin no links no emails to show no proof no nothin


I cant keep up with your silliness


----------



## stak (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Aww blackstar what happened falling behind


really? you practically declared them the winner already so how can they be falling behind now?


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Umm I been going off pics dood posted by someone else up until now it was keepin up just fine the other two swelled up.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> I agree... Kaptain Kron, sick are not, it makes no difference... I erased and edited a bunch of post for you the other day so you dont look like an asshole and here you are again... cant believe it. Where I am from , we call people like you Mr. Joe knows Everything, and they are annoying type of people...
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


my silliness wow maybe u should go back and read what he posted I'm not the only one callin him a troll op Asked him to stop callin names because people didnt agree with himEveryone's allowed a bad day or two man what's not allowed is trolling on someone's thread with invalidated information for no reason other than to start some shit his first post here was that way it clearly states hey use cree LEDs and until someone pulls one down and runs the part numbers I'm going to believe my research. If he had proof of something he shoulda posted it not just rambled on about how right he was


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Here see specifically asking for that shit to stop only one person was name cling and it was him because no one nelieved his info



WeJuana said:


> Woah. Good morning/afternoon everyone. Popped my head in to see how the thread was rolling..
> 
> I'm not making any accusations towards anybody singly, but from now on this a rule: There will be no name calling or personal attacks. If you disagree with what is said, then discuss on the topic that is disagreed upon to hopefully learn something new. Name calling will only put the name called on the defensive state, which inhibits their desire to intake new information and learn. I know most of us here want to learn and have the option to teach as well so please keep to comments directed towards the topic and not the person.


----------



## stak (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Here see specifically asking for that shit to stop only one person was name cling and it was him because no one nelieved his info


you and davoswavos started attacking and insulting him before he threw an insult at anyone. you are not innocent in this. you are the main problem.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Do I need to go back and start quoting all his posts? I really don't think ao he called me ignorant before uncalled him a troll. Besides what are we supposed to think when someone with one post shows up in this test thread and immediately and without proof starts rippin on a light I don't care if it was the fuckin extravagantly priced penetrator I still woulda called him out


----------



## stak (Nov 7, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Do I need to go back and start quoting all his posts? I really don't think ao he called me ignorant before uncalled him a troll. Besides what are we supposed to think when someone with one post shows up in this test thread and immediately and without proof starts rippin on a light I don't care if it was the fuckin extravagantly priced penetrator I still woulda called him out


based on the way you've handled yourself in this thread I would definitely trust a one post noob before you.


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## maxpesh (Nov 8, 2011)

OK !!!!! Time out everyone, stop all this arguing as this is not productive, now everyone say sorry to Wejuana for trying to turn this into a circus and lets get back to the grow  Wejuana, the floor is yours


----------



## Lucius Vorenus (Nov 8, 2011)

How is that Spectra LED supposedly 12+ spectrums? Just curious. Are they using 12 diffeent wavelengths of LED bulbs in it?


----------



## jubiare (Nov 8, 2011)

nasar said:


> i cant find the thread for the 280 watt panel really want to see results.


This is what the guy said when harvested:
*Thats looking awsome matey. Once i have got a grow or two ubnder my belt i may start adding things to my cabs






My bud is now dry, im shocked to be honest, i thought i had 6-7 oz but with all stalks removed and dry i got 13oz








!!!!!!!!

My main big plant yeilded 71/2 oz












the amount of lower buds on it was awsome and its making me think i should have my lights a tad higher as they seem to have awsome penetration. To say im over the moon is an understatement. 1 plant was all rotten so i got nothing off that and i rekon i only got about an oz off the hermied plant and chucked the rest. 

I rekon if i can get 4 ladies vegged to 20-25" all the way through flower without any problems i can get 20oz+. 

The thread is here:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/390631-stealth-cabinets-106.html
*


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## jubiare (Nov 8, 2011)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> How is that Spectra LED supposedly 12+ spectrums? Just curious. Are they using 12 diffeent wavelengths of LED bulbs in it?


God knows the truth my dear Lucius, GOD KNOWS. They wont tell you. And they lie also. They kind of keep it for theimselves... you know they don't wAnt people to copy them.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU: MANY THAT STATE THEY USE SO MANY WAWELENGHTS, MOST OF THEM LIE. THEY USE MUCH LESS ONES
Take Magnum guys for example: They state on the website: 420nm/439nm/469nm/483nm/3000k-3500k/642nm/667nm/680nm/720nm
I can tell you, that's bollocks (I have got one)
Do you really think they would tell everyone? 
It's much simpleler their configuration 
They accomplish two things at once with that: first, they fool possible forgers. Second, they want to look like they use such special blend diodes...............
THAT'S ALL BOLLOCKS


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## davoswavos (Nov 8, 2011)

Sorry WJ I quit bickering a while back like said above it's not productive and we got carried away I wont do it anymore keep up the good work and thanks for doing this journal.


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## hoss12781 (Nov 8, 2011)

May be true for the magnum's I don't know cause I've never used one, but I don't know about the lying from GLH - that's pretty harsh to say w/o proof. I owned a 12 spectrum 100w ufo from GLH it was a great light and if you looked you could easily see the different spectrum employed (through sunglasses though cause its pretty bright). They might only have a couple in the odd orange, green, or wide kelvin temp but they're there.


----------



## hoss12781 (Nov 8, 2011)

Its true they don't want someone building a light to their specs cause they were the ones who spent the R&D $ to come up with those specs, but at least in the GLH and Hydro Hut lines when they advert a certain number its there. I've owned both brands, and am very nerdy about my lighting. 

Since they were unwilling to give me the spectrum readout, which I can apprecaite, I turned on the lights and with heavy black sunglasses on counted things up to make sure I didn't just buy a bunch of hype. At least with these two brands the number of leds using 3w chips for the total panel wattage and spectrum used made sense - at least in all the models I own. Like I said, nerdy about my lights.


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 8, 2011)

I noticed when my light reflects off clear plastic you can see all the spectrums its really cool looking if your really high.


----------



## jubiare (Nov 8, 2011)

hoss12781 said:


> May be true for the magnum's I don't know cause I've never used one, but I don't know about the lying from GLH - that's pretty harsh to say w/o proof. I owned a 12 spectrum 100w ufo from GLH it was a great light and if you looked you could easily see the different spectrum employed (through sunglasses though cause its pretty bright). They might only have a couple in the odd orange, green, or wide kelvin temp but they're there.


in my magnum I can see about 7 different colors including the UV you cannot see, cannot see 11 though 
Can you see 12 with GLH and 14 with Pro-grow?
I have tried to contact pro-grow for the past several weeks, by email - phone every day - contact form ...... nothing. They are on holiday or what?


----------



## Beefbisquit (Nov 8, 2011)

From Gotham Products;

Dear xxxxx,

actually Cree makes most of them, whatever wavelengths they do not make are Epistar and Bridgelux, but most LEDs in Blackstars are Cree.


- gotham_products




Not saying it's the truth, but at least it has been "verified" by gotham_products.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 8, 2011)

Thank u finally lol my email wasn't responded too yet. Bout time someone cleared that up and confirmed what I've been sayin.


----------



## hoss12781 (Nov 8, 2011)

jubiare said:


> in my magnum I can see about 7 different colors including the UV you cannot see, cannot see 11 though
> Can you see 12 with GLH and 14 with Pro-grow?
> I have tried to contact pro-grow for the past several weeks, by email - phone every day - contact form ...... nothing. They are on holiday or what?


I can see the 7 different on my old Pro-Grows and the 14 on my new one and could count 12 different on the GLH. That's odd about Hydro Hut I've usually been able to get what I want from them. Email has worked best they've always responded but sometimes it has taken over a week to get back with me (they probably got sick of answering all the questions I asked before I bought)


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Nov 8, 2011)

Bickering aside......This is still a great thread Wejuana.
Much to learn about these new lights.....Thanx for showing...


----------



## davoswavos (Nov 8, 2011)

that penetrator is kicking some ass.


----------



## hippy132 (Nov 8, 2011)

Its getting easier and easier to only pay attention to the Blackstar and the Hydragrow as Mike isn't selling the 290 any longer, so compare the cost of his 150's which are the old 180's powered at 50% ie., 150 watt (100 3 watt leds powered at 50% ). Awful expensive, just saying...


----------



## Endur0xX (Nov 8, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> From Gotham Products;
> 
> Dear xxxxx,
> 
> ...


you would think that he would know the wavelength though...


----------



## jubiare (Nov 8, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> you would think that he would know the wavelength though...


AHAHAHAHAH endur0xX you made me laugh 
"WHATEVER"


----------



## sleezy1 (Nov 8, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Well, I'm there now.
> 
> And there's no mention of CREE anywhere that I can find. Could you post a link perhaps?
> 
> ...


Check out all my Blackstar grows. Click the links in my signature. Just harvested.


----------



## WeJuana (Nov 8, 2011)

Thanks all. I appreciate the info, knowledge, and even disagreements, but we just have to talk them out for the sake of learning. 

You weigh in tomorrow right sleezy?!


----------



## Beefbisquit (Nov 8, 2011)

sleezy1 said:


> Check out all my Blackstar grows. Click the links in my signature. Just harvested.


What does your harvest have to do with CREE LED's? Never once have I questioned that Blackstar LED's perform, I'm using 2 right now for fuck sake. Click on the link in *MY* sig...

I'm just questioning the claim that they use 98% CREE LED's, Gotham says they do, but they've removed all mention of CREE from their ads and so has Lighthouse Hydro. I don't know if Blackstars are so much cheaper because they're using cheaper LED's (that still work amazingly mind you), or because they're selling units for a reasonable markup, not a ludicrous one like other LED companies. 

I've read this claim in a few places;

Even if Lighthouse hydro bought 1000's of LED's they'd still be paying $2-3/LED and the cost of the LED would have to be higher. Therefore, they can't be using CREE LED's.


1000's of LED's? What about half million or a million at a time? Wal-mart will sign or cancel contract over fractions of cents. There's hundreds of LED's per panel, do people think they make 10-20 at a time??? lol


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 8, 2011)

Yea imma say they need a lot more than thousands too lol. Even at 2-3 dollars an led ur lookin at 4 bills or ao probably as a wild ass guess for cost to build a 100 3w diode panel and that's about 400 bucks or so for about 150 wats if driven at fifty percent. That being said my 240 blackstar cost 250 so where's the 150$ price difference from? IMO Chinese labor and the fact the probably buy billions of chips for these things at a time especially if the claim that the same company is building all these LEDs in china. That would Beth's company sourcing the LEDs so not only Southey source blackstars LEDs say for example that they built advanced panels too I don't know if they do but let's use a hypothetical. They would have to order enough chips for specific manufacturers to fill both those companies needs I'm sure this is how blackstar gets their prices sole and mos of these other companies are greedy as hell. However there are some small ones like fake photoics LEDs for example they use cree but cost way more. They guy doesn't make as many panels so he doesn't get as many chips and he builds them himself not in china so they cost more. I get that it's too bad but he's a smaller company so it costs more but results are nice. So many things to consider u know


----------



## WeJuana (Nov 9, 2011)

Spectra





















Blackstar





















Penetrator




















So.. it looks like the Blackstar tent is feeling your negativity! lol.

In all seriousness though, this first run of LA Cons has had a few bumps with overferting the glh and penetrator tent a bit as well as the mag deficiency. I switched the fans to run only when lights were on for a period of about a week, and lets just say it threw stuff way off. I kept watering as I was previously, not really accounting for the pots drying slower. 

In aiming to fix the GLH and Penetrator deficiency, the Blackstar is now showing signs of too much mag, by showing magnese def and have a feeling it is why the buds are slowing currently. 

I think this is a good learning experience in the way that for the next set of plants, I will be watering using the same nutes as in this grow with the exception of needing to correct something on a per plant basis. I will be sure to note specifically if I am feeding a plant something different to correct an error.

This test will continue on, and everything is looking like its moving back in the right direction and leveling out.

All the buds are looking good themselves, some of the leaves just aren't at their prettiest.


----------



## nasar (Nov 9, 2011)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400-W-Bi-Spectrum-Induction-Super-Grow-Light-/250900346005?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6ad37495#ht_2660wt_932

check this light out people


----------



## Endur0xX (Nov 9, 2011)

what is it? I dont get how it would last so long, isnt it just regular bulb in there? has anyone ever tried those, what about the heat ? Thanks, still freakin expensive for a damn light, ... and 200$ shipping!! haha


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 9, 2011)

Yes I've run one induction is plasma lighting albeit old style I ran one got frustrated with it because it wouldn't fire off in the morning via the timer. I had to manually start doin it after a week and his was unacceptable so I returned it. The good plasma systems are much more expensive but they work awesome plants like the light


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 9, 2011)

As for heat the bulb itself way cooler than any cfl puts out a better par. The ballast part on mine got kinda hot but that's fairly normal for any ballast to a certain degree. I didn't like the overall quality. I ordered mine from inductionlamps.com they no longer offer that fixture to my knowledge.


----------



## maxpesh (Nov 9, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> what is it? I dont get how it would last so long, isnt it just regular bulb in there? has anyone ever tried those, what about the heat ? Thanks, still freakin expensive for a damn light, ... and 200$ shipping!! haha


Indution florescent lighting is what these are, no electrodes to burn out but, alas no good proven grows with them and they are su much cheaper from china for the exact same light


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 9, 2011)

Another good thing about them is no mercury in them like normal and ho fluorescents


----------



## maxpesh (Nov 9, 2011)

So now it looks like my theory of green light added for quantum growth is starting to be proved here as the spectra have a lot of white in the unit(so more green spectrum than the blackstar) and the penetrator has dedicated green bulbs also. Haha love it when a theory is being proven.  . My next grow has just gone into my flower room today so I'm gonna buy a couple of green cfl's to supplement my two 500watt blackstars and see what happens.


----------



## Kaptain Kron (Nov 9, 2011)

Try it out man. It may not be that though according to wejuana he made a lil boo bio recently with nutrients possibly slowing growth a bit. But again it's also possible the out the green too. Cannawizard is running some green spectrum bulbs u may wanna consult with him as to the proper nm of green to throw in there because I know some greens won't do anything for plant growth. But I don't know enough about all that to start guessing at it.


----------



## puffenuff (Nov 9, 2011)

Buds are getting fatter! Hope you can get the leaves looking better, looks to have some issues there with the browning leaves and curled tips. I like what im seeing from all three panels though in terms of bud development. So far the panels are performing as I expected. Seeing the 1w penetrator performing like it is makes me wonder about the 3w version. WeJuana, you truly are inspiring me and making me want to test more panels myself!


----------



## FMCCNate (Nov 9, 2011)

Still looking pretty solid, keep up the good work.


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## maxpesh (Nov 9, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Try it out man. It may not be that though according to wejuana he made a lil boo bio recently with nutrients possibly slowing growth a bit. But again it's also possible the out the green too. Cannawizard is running some green spectrum bulbs u may wanna consult with him as to the proper nm of green to throw in there because I know some greens won't do anything for plant growth. But I don't know enough about all that to start guessing at it.


Thanks man for the info, I may be wrong but I think the green peak should also coincide with cartenoids, just spoke to an old friend in England who is a plant biologist and he agrees with this train of thought on the nm range . Peace bro


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## Endur0xX (Nov 9, 2011)

anybody growing with Haight Solid State LEDS on here? are those 6W diodes good to grow marijuana?? thanks

I know I asked a while back I just thought there was new comers on here.. there is not much on the net about them ... I am thinking of trying the 90W they have...


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## nasar (Nov 10, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> anybody growing with Haight Solid State LEDS on here? are those 6W diodes good to grow marijuana?? thanks
> 
> I know I asked a while back I just thought there was new comers on here.. there is not much on the net about them ... I am thinking of trying the 90W they have...


Here's a link to some journals have look let me know what you think... Endur0xX

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/216015-haight-solid-state-led-grow.html


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## Endur0xX (Nov 10, 2011)

some of those threads are using the same light I am planning to order but those threads started back in 2009... with 6W leds in 2009? how come they are still the only company making 6W leds if the 6W diodes have been around since 2009!?


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 10, 2011)

As my understanding of LED's goes, the higher the wattage of the LED the less efficient it becomes.

Using 1 watt LED's gives a higher reading on a lux/par meter than the equal wattage draw of 3 watt LED's, but 3 watt LED's provide better penetration into the canopy than 1 watt. 

I read that somewhere.... I'll see if I can find the source...


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## hoss12781 (Nov 10, 2011)

Read that too, but from having played with 1, 2, and 3w units am convinced that the 3w chips are worth the $$. As for the 5 and 6w, we'll have to wait and see but I would suspect that unless they are driven through a very wide viewing angle (120 degrees at a minimum) they would almost be too intense. I have to keep my 3w panels at least 8 inches, probably more like 10 inches away from the canopy or my plants get bleached big time.

In my research I also read that 5 plus watt diodes are also very hard to keep cool and are subject to burn out quicker. This could be why we don't see many of them on the market ... yet.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 10, 2011)

surprisingly, they run with no fans.. I am pretty sure they are really wide angle, cant find it on their website right now though. As for the distance from the canopy, on their website it says : The PPF-400 should be positioned approximately 6-12 inches above the canopy. Closer than 6 inches can result in stunted growth during the vegetative stage but it is a good idea to move the lights closer (2-3 inches) during flowering

there is no mention of bleaching! I think that having a mixture of 1W, 3W and 6W LEDs might be a good idea. !


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

The reason no ones using em is they just aren't efficient for those of u just Colin into he led game LEDs started to step up their game big about 3 years ago or 3.5 years ago or so. Lots of new company's with "revolutionary" designs. Many different style chip sets and combos and different wattage diodes. Basically anything over 3w loses so much efficiency to $ that it's not worth running them. Also u run into the issue of like hoss said too much juice over ur plants eachjng and also massive spotiness in ur spectrum mix because of less LEDs per square inch. Basically it's been found that 1w was the most efficient but then u have cooling issues and also cost because of the sheer amount of LEDs used. What needed to happen has a balance of lower to number of LEDs enter 2w and 3w chipsets. These are ideal and it's What all major led company's that are doing anything of note are using. Haight has basically been debunked IMO but that's my opinion and u can draw ur own but I personally will not buy it unless it uses 2 and 3 watt chipsets


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## puffenuff (Nov 10, 2011)

Blackdog makes a 5w panel. I would love to put it to the test. Also comes with a lifetime warranty, something else I haven't seen being offered.

http://blackdogled.com/products/platinum-xl


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

Indeed a lifetime warranty hmmm that in and of itself may be worth it lol


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## davoswavos (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm sure the lifetime warranty is about as good as the warranty a used car salesman will try to sell you.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

Right full of a million loopholes I was about to say he same thing right now I'd have to go over that with a fine toothed comb first lOl


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## davoswavos (Nov 10, 2011)

damn that is a serious light though I would love to see a journal with someone using one anyone know of any?


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## hippy132 (Nov 10, 2011)

Warranty is only as good as the retailer, as most of us dont buy from manufacturer nor is it stamped on my lites who or where it came from, the warranty only exists as long as GLH is doing business as GLH for example...


Kaptain Kron said:


> Indeed a lifetime warranty hmmm that in and of itself may be worth it lol


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## davoswavos (Nov 10, 2011)

yeah that was kinda my thinking there is no way that company could be replacing thousands of light a year for free forever (or however many lights a year who cares that's just my example)


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> damn that is a serious light though I would love to see a journal with someone using one anyone know of any?


Even more serious http://blackdogled.com/products/bd1300R


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> Warranty is only as good as the retailer, as most of us dont buy from manufacturer nor is it stamped on my lites who or where it came from, the warranty only exists as long as GLH is doing business as GLH for example...


Maybe reading would help lol I as I said before I bet it's full of holes for the to jump through to get out of it


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## puffenuff (Nov 10, 2011)

Damn guys, instead of shitting on the warranty right off the bat, maybe give them a call and ask about it first...


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

Still being said I get an odd feeling about the company lol not likin he info shown on their website pictures look weak


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 10, 2011)

Jesus, that looks like one serious light... lol

1200 watt actual draw?? Wouldn't I love to jam that into my little 40sq ft tent. hahahaha


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

Lol right while being wary something appeals to the Tim Taylor in me lol how can u not just say ugh ugh ugh MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!! lol but I can't afford a 2500$ pos lol


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## puffenuff (Nov 10, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Still being said I get an odd feeling about the company lol not likin he info shown on their website pictures look weak


I actually like their website. Good product info, some good general led info, actual pics of mj being grown instead of lettuce or tomatoes like some websites show. Some don't even update their pages when new products are released. Theres only a few companies that I would consider purchasing from and these guys are near the top of my list.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 10, 2011)

With LEDs you gotta find out for yourself... if you dont mind spending a little bit of money... so much false claim all over the internet. I just got my Blackstar 240 and it's bright, looks like an ok light... but I am not too impressed when I look inside the light,I can see big mess of silicone at 3 different place, I am hoping this was not a mistake (that silicone is suppose to be there ... still should be put on more professionally). I ll have the light up and running but I will keep an eye on it for a while. I believe the lightt will give good result but it's not A1 assembly...



I must say ,.. it's pretty bright now with the 3 lights running!!


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm not trying to shit on their light and I'll admit that their warranty may or may not have loopholes for them but most lifetime warranties have loopholes in them and clauses that require u to meet certain requirements with their product before they will warranty it that's all I'm tryin to say. 

In fact a few look fairly impressive but again kinda pricey


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

Well that's what u get for a product assembled in china I got one too it's a lil shoddy but whatever it works and grows good plants I'll get a few pics up momentarily of my blue dream and the nug


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

First shot obviously is the blue dream under the leds, That shot is from week five, it was the beginning of week six on tuesday and thats when the second shot was taken, third shot was a shot of the mother room about a week ago before transplant. The beast in the middle is wonder woman. Ao is on the right.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

hmm it appears i need to rotate that picture lol hmm but its not flipped when i look at it on the computer why is it flipped in the uploader hmmm. anyone answer that one for me lol

til then just flip your monitor over lol.


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## randomseed (Nov 10, 2011)

Anyone have some experience with the AdvancedLED Diamonds?

Im wondering if the following would be enough 

1 100w - cover a 1x1 space for clones and small veg plants

2 x 200w - cover a 3x3 veg table with between 8 and 14 plants (would a 300w or even 3x 100w be better?) - replacing a 600w MH

Thanks in advance (pun intended).

Also since I intend to do these in veg ONLY would I be better off using the all blue models they got? I can't find ANY real info on if/how the all blues really work in the end. I think Im confortable with their normals and the diamonds but there is almost nothing online with people using the all blues.


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## hoss12781 (Nov 10, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Blackdog makes a 5w panel. I would love to put it to the test. Also comes with a lifetime warranty, something else I haven't seen being offered.
> 
> http://blackdogled.com/products/platinum-xl


For $1800 bucks it better have a life time warranty! Seriously though I don't care how well you design a light it will burn out eventually. I guess they're banking on someone not using the same unit for more than 6-7 years which is when it should start to fail.


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## hoss12781 (Nov 10, 2011)

randomseed said:


> Anyone have some experience with the AdvancedLED Diamonds?
> 
> Im wondering if the following would be enough
> 
> ...


I use all blues on my plants for the first two weeks (autos - short veg time), just flowering spectrum on the last two weeks. The plants respond to it and I save a little (more) electricity. I really like the switchable spectrum on the Pro-Grow's I'm using.

Those dimensions seem right, maybe even a bit conservative.


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## maxpesh (Nov 10, 2011)

I really thought this was a grow journal at the start, but now everyone is going on about different lights, poor guy has been completely hijacked. What is going on here ?


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## Endur0xX (Nov 10, 2011)

randomseed said:


> Anyone have some experience with the AdvancedLED Diamonds?
> 
> Im wondering if the following would be enough
> 
> ...


I have the 100w advance right now, I dont think I would recommend it for a 1x1 area because I think it needs to be like 24inches above canopy to have good result... unsure yet that is what it looks like from looking in my dresser. "I would go with something circular or a square for a 1x1, not a rectangle and especially not a long and skinny rectangle like the 100W diamond. thats only my current opinion!!



maxpesh said:


> I really thought this was a grow journal at the start, but now everyone is going on about different lights, poor guy has been completely hijacked. What is going on here ?



People are pitching in infos about LEDs ... I think Wejuana always enjoyed it ... it helps his thread stay on the top longer haha


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## hoss12781 (Nov 10, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> I really thought this was a grow journal at the start, but now everyone is going on about different lights, poor guy has been completely hijacked. What is going on here ?


Wejuana's cool with it. He invited us to visit and talk amongst ourselves. It is extremely refreshing to be able to talk about the different kinds of led lights we're using without getting verbally gang raped by someone who hasn't used proper leds or is just repeating rubbish. It's not a fun journal without people to patronize, scrutinize, and give comments from the peanut gallery.


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## davoswavos (Nov 10, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I actually like their website. Good product info, some good general led info, actual pics of mj being grown instead of lettuce or tomatoes like some websites show. Some don't even update their pages when new products are released. Theres only a few companies that I would consider purchasing from and these guys are near the top of my list.


I'm alot more interested in pics from the consumer and what there results look like than what the website has from the led company puts up because like anyone on here will tell you there all crooks some just alot more than others there is not one led co that has zero complaints prove me wrong.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 10, 2011)

Yea but the guy can only update so many pictures!! I have been using Wejuana's grow journal to learn more about LEDs, and I am not the only one!... and if you are not interested in reading, it's easy to scroll down to the pictures,,... almost 1 set of pictures/vidz every other page!


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## nasar (Nov 11, 2011)

just had a read about the black dog platinum XL the actual power draw is 740 watt 288 leds, ( 5 watt chips) running approx half power 2.5 watts. 

http://blackdogled.com/products/platinum-xl


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## randomseed (Nov 11, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> I have the 100w advance right now, I don't think I would recommend it for a 1x1 area because I think it needs to be like inches above canopy to have good result... unsure yet that is what it looks like from looking in my dresser. "I would go with something circular or a square for a 1x1, not a rectangle and especially not a long and skinny rectangle like the 100W diamond. thats only my current opinion!!


"I think it needs to be like 24inches above canopy to have good result" do you mean for footprint? In my application it would be exactly 14' from the quart container tops.
Id be putting them over two normal 12'x5.5' propagating trays side by side.

Im like sitting on the checkout button as I type this. Usually when in doubt Id just go big but with prices like these its hard to commit.
Anyone got a checkout discount code lol


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## Endur0xX (Nov 11, 2011)

hehe... you see in this picture, this is how I had the diamond, well if I would not have been waiting for other lights, I was to set it on the left edge of the dresser (kind of where the UFO is on the picture) and hopefully have a better light coverage. but as it is in the picture, it was about 12-14 inches from the screen and I find that the main of the light was focusing between my 2 plants, not enough light to the back and the front of the dresser, and it was too long to put it sideways,...another foot higher and it would have been perfect! Unless your 1x1 square is high enough for you to put the light 24 inches above canopy and if you put mylar all around then it might be wicked. The diamond runs cooler than any other light I have so far (UFOs, blackstar). sorry for the long not so clear reply, thats the best I can do this morning!!


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## randomseed (Nov 11, 2011)

Checking out the 120w extreme veg too, its got a 10x10in physical size so I would have to assume it's got the coverage area but does the all blues really work??????


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## Endur0xX (Nov 11, 2011)

I would say they are probably awesome for vegging... looking at the plant right under my ufo BLUE 5th generation, I would say it does an awesome job in vegging, I can only see the advance blue being better than the UFO... but who knows


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 11, 2011)

Blue spectrum LEDs=the shit for veg  too bad I'm a cheap bastard lol t5 ftw lol ha ha ha


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## puffenuff (Nov 11, 2011)

Anyone interested, RIU finally added an led section under indoor growing. Check it out.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 11, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> With LEDs you gotta find out for yourself... if you dont mind spending a little bit of money... so much false claim all over the internet. I just got my Blackstar 240 and it's bright, looks like an ok light... but I am not too impressed when I look inside the light,I can see big mess of silicone at 3 different place, I am hoping this was not a mistake (that silicone is suppose to be there ... still should be put on more professionally). I ll have the light up and running but I will keep an eye on it for a while. I believe the lightt will give good result but it's not A1 assembly...
> 
> View attachment 1881328View attachment 1881329View attachment 1881330
> 
> I must say ,.. it's pretty bright now with the 3 lights running!!


What's the light on the right? Looks like one of the E.Shine system lights....


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## Endur0xX (Nov 11, 2011)

advance extreme led 3w 100w


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## WeJuana (Nov 11, 2011)

Spectra: 











Blackstar:











Penetrator:











Full sized Bic used to show scale. It tripped me out because the lighter looked red in the Blackstar/Penetrator tent. It's intense what the different hue of the different lights does to colors


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 11, 2011)

Yea give us a squeeze test what nugs are fluff what are dense. Lol watch my blackstar theory go out the window lol ha ha ha ha that would be ironic wouldn't it


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## maxpesh (Nov 12, 2011)

Day 31 and already lots of hair turning amber looks like another 10 days and done ? Hope these aren't the largest of the buds Wej


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## leogets (Nov 12, 2011)

pretty ordinary if they are the biggest buds you have to show on day 31 of a 55 day strain 

why cant you show the whole plants ? what are you trying to hide ?


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## WeJuana (Nov 12, 2011)

@max - I always try to shoot average sized bud sites, none pictured are the biggest bud site.
@leogets - lol nothing at all because I have nothing to prove. 

My 60mm lens broke so all I have to shoot with is my macro currently.. my new lens should be arriving anytime though and ill get some full shots and video updates posted asap. In the meanwhile my intention was to take shots of the same buds for multiple days in a row so I could post them eventually in one thread showing the progress. 

The buds have been through a little troubled times though and i noticed hairs turning red during. There is a lot of new white pistil growth coming out.. as far as time of harvest though I go on trichs and they are all still clear as water currently so I am expecting to go longer than 10 days more lol.


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## maxpesh (Nov 12, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> @max - I always try to shoot average sized bud sites, none pictured are the biggest bud site.
> @leogets - lol nothing at all. My 60mm lens broke so all I have to shoot with is my macro currently.. my new lens should be arriving anytime though and ill get some full shots and video updates going again. The buds have been through a little troubled times though and i noticed hairs turning red during. There is a lot of new white pistil growth coming out.. as far as time of harvest though I go on trichs and they are all still clear as water currently.


Well done mate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,@ leogets,, hide? Why do some people always think the worst ?


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## WeJuana (Nov 12, 2011)

Here are some full plant macro shots for you leogets. It'l help me sleep better knowing you can sleep better knowing I have nothing to hide haha 

(Day 32)
Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


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## maxpesh (Nov 12, 2011)

The blackstar has more leaf but all the buds look to be about the same, how much longer left to go on this strain ?


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## WeJuana (Nov 12, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> The blackstar has more leaf but all the buds look to be about the same, how much longer left to go on this strain ?


Its a 56-63 dat strain. I'm anticipating closer to day 56, as they have not lived the healthiest of lives.


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## leogets (Nov 12, 2011)

no real way to prove anything conclusive from this thread anyway 

not saying you have or would

but

with so many fake and one sided grow offs around about leds whats to stop you or anyone from deliberatly skewing it to a brand you get discounts from to generate buisness an gain kick backs 

happens more then you think and no just with leds 

had a blast reading the thread though an good luck with the rest of the grow


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## WeJuana (Nov 12, 2011)

leogets said:


> no real way to prove anything conclusive from this thread anyway
> 
> not saying you have or would
> 
> ...


Yes leogets, this is not the first time that has been brought up on this thread. People have informed on numerous people in the past who have done shady things on led grows in the past.

I would understand questioning and disbelief in my claims if it was something unusual, such as harvesting a pound per plant.. but usually skeptics at least wait until a claim is made before being skeptical. lol. I have not yet harvested. 

As I see it, your logic that previous shady LED growers have any way to correlate with me LED growing is like saying if my plants have Mg deficiency, your plants will have Mg deficiency. It just doesn't work like that because there is just no correlation between my plants and your plants like there is none between the other growers and me.


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## WeJuana (Nov 12, 2011)

And to add this.. if anything and my results were skewed at this point, it would be negatively because they have been having nute issues. I dare not hope you would think I would purposely negatively taint my personal medicine?


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## jubiare (Nov 12, 2011)

it would be interesting to see if any finishes earlier than others


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## jubiare (Nov 12, 2011)

leogets said:


> no real way to prove anything conclusive from this thread anyway
> 
> not saying you have or would
> 
> ...


I do not know about you guys, but I really trust this dude Wejuana to be totally unbiased whatsoever.


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## maxpesh (Nov 12, 2011)

jubiare said:


> I do not know about you guys, but I really trust this dude Wejuana to be totally unbiased whatsoever.


Yes I am with you on that one my friend. In fact, after the new year I am starting my own company and he is going to be top of my list to test my designed led spectrum, I already know it's gonna rock but still. it would be good to have someone like him as I know I will get an unbiased viewpoint and honesty above all else


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## jubiare (Nov 12, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Yes I am with you on that one my friend. In fact, after the new year I am starting my own company and he is going to be top of my list to test my designed led spectrum, I already know it's gonna rock but still. it would be good to have someone like him as I know I will get an unbiased viewpoint and honesty above all else


What are you planning to do, what brand leds are you planning to work with?


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## davoswavos (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm with you guy's wejauna seems legit I will say I have seen some shady grow journals where shit just wasn't right and of course the guy is bragging about the free lights he was getting from the company who's light was winning in his journal.


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## maxpesh (Nov 12, 2011)

jubiare said:


> What are you planning to do, what brand leds are you planning to work with?


At the moment all I can say is that I am sourcing my equipment or find a good quality manufacturer to build them to MY specifications i.e, the spectrums that I know work better specifically for mary jane. You noticed how Penetrator now uses Green, well that was my idea put forward to Cammie 18 months ago any she brushed it off, now glad I didn't say much else. But I have 25 years experience in the electronics industry, been growing for 15 years, I am not going to spam my company on these journals though. But I will make this promise. NO ONE will be getting ripped with over pricing and the spectrums will be perfect (8 of them). I will soon give out my price for my first light designed to replace a 600watt hps in 10ft square tent


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## Endur0xX (Nov 12, 2011)

nice Wejuana, what kind of issue did you have with the nutes? Your plants look healthy to me. If they got to that size in 30 days and they have another 15-20 to go, they should be a reasonable size, maybe nothing to brag about but enough to get LEDs some respect. 
To me, growing an once of premium weed is worth 200$(that's what I would be paying for...), I am only hoping I can grow 200ish grams with roughly 450W of total LEDs out of this one and only crop this year. This way I would feel like my LEDs are paid for. And apparently, almost all of those lights will be easily good for another 10 crops with no extra fee, and if that's the case, never again I will buy an HID!

Looking forward to see your harvest for each light Wej! Good luck


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## maxpesh (Nov 12, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> nice Wejuana, what kind of issue did you have with the nutes? Your plants look healthy to me. If they got to that size in 30 days and they have another 15-20 to go, they should be a reasonable size, maybe nothing to brag about but enough to get LEDs some respect.
> To me, growing an once of premium weed is worth 200$(that's what I would be paying for...), I am only hoping I can grow 200ish grams with roughly 450W of total LEDs out of this one and only crop this year. This way I would feel like my LEDs are paid for. And apparently, almost all of those lights will be easily good for another 10 crops with no extra fee, and if that's the case, never again I will buy an HID!
> 
> Looking forward to see your harvest for each light Wej! Good luck


When you say 450watts do you mean watts consumption ? Coz I'd like to see over 1g/watt on a regular basis then everyone going for the target of 2g/watt. Coz that's the day led's win


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## johnnymcpotts (Nov 12, 2011)

I gotta say thanks to WJ! This thread and everyones input has helped me choose LED over HID for my grow rooms.

If all goes well today I will complete the build and will start actually growing within a week with several LED's and a few different brands

I will be journaling my grow in hopes of getting help from many of you as I am a new grower and will need all the help I can get.

Thanks again WJ for this fantastic journal!


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## puffenuff (Nov 12, 2011)

What up WeJuana? Was looking at your latest pics and got to wondering...I don't see many fan leaves, are you pruning them or is it just the phenos of this strain?

Also, can you please speak on the amount of stretch you've seen with each light? Did one stretch more than the others? I know you left the lights stationary and the plants were all about the same height when you put into the tents, so just wondering how the stretching went.

Thanks!


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 12, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> When you say 450watts do you mean watts consumption ? Coz I'd like to see over 1g/watt on a regular basis then everyone going for the target of 2g/watt. Coz that's the day led's win


I've never pulled less than 1.5gpw with LEDs ao we are already there man.


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## hippy132 (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I've never pulled less than 1.5gpw with LEDs ao we are already there man.


 So write a book that we can all follow with everything that is done from how you picked clones to how and when and why you repotted , etc...I am sure it exists just not for indoor leds in detail. As not all of us are there yet, wishing and holding my breath for my first led buds.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 12, 2011)

Just a scrog bro and LEDs I'd barely be getting 1gpw from an hid if I was lucky I'm nobody special bro LEDs make u a hero in that area lol not my doing I just use what I paid for. A kessil and a 240 blackstar


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## maxpesh (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I've never pulled less than 1.5gpw with LEDs ao we are already there man.


Well done, my point was that Everyone should be achieving this and I agree with your scrogg method for LED, it's the only way to go, but heyho 2g/watt ? Maybe soon ?


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 12, 2011)

There's a guy doin it already with the plant photonics led its the panel that got me into led very knowledgable price threw me when I was a noob but his theory is sound. I'm very impressed with this guys results I'll link the thread jubaire already did though


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## maxpesh (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> There's a guy doin it already with the plant photonics led its the panel that got me into led very knowledgable price threw me when I was a noob but his theory is sound. I'm very impressed with this guys results I'll link the thread jubaire already did though


Yes I followed this guy on the net a few months back. The reason he got into it was that a friend of his bought a crappy led ufo a few years back when they first came out, it broke down so he contacted the company that he had bought it from and was just laughed at, so the photonic guy repaired it for him and got into the led thing. I suspect they are good lights though, and I wish him all the success in the world


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## Lucius Vorenus (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Just a scrog bro and LEDs I'd barely be getting 1gpw from an hid if I was lucky I'm nobody special bro LEDs make u a hero in that area lol not my doing I just use what I paid for. A kessil and a 240 blackstar


You have a journal of this grow somewhere? I am growing 3 plants right now under 2 240watt Blackstars and I can tell you now there is no way im gonna get more than 6oz off of all 3. That being said im only in week 3 of flower but im pretty confident in that estimate. I just bought these for a test. THis is our first run with them in a 4x4.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 12, 2011)

You need to scrog man or supercrop I'm not runnin vert. Lol I pulled an ounce and a half from a root rotted plant.


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## leogets (Nov 12, 2011)

talk is cheap kaptin kron we have all heard these boasts before but once again they are boasts without backup all to common in led threads ....

if your doing so great why dont you do a journel to help all led growers ? 

my bet is your 100% full of shit prove me wrong

EDIT: just saw your pic of your led grow your a micro growing amature gtfo an stfu you got shut down by your parents LOL please stop talking out of your ass we can search your posts you no .... wannabe


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## WeJuana (Nov 12, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> nice Wejuana, what kind of issue did you have with the nutes? Your plants look healthy to me.


The tents all started showing Mag deficiency, the Penetrator and Spectra tent were showing worse than the Blackstar. While trying to correct the mag, the Blackstar tent received too much, and started showing Mn deficiency. There was also a period of about a week where I was over watering due to switching the inline fans to run only when the lights were on (instead of 24/7) which caused slower drying of the soil which I didn't account for.

The plants are definitely looking better now, and seem to be continually to improving.



puffenuff said:


> What up WeJuana? Was looking at your latest pics and got to wondering...I don't see many fan leaves, are you pruning them or is it just the phenos of this strain?
> 
> Also, can you please speak on the amount of stretch you've seen with each light? Did one stretch more than the others? I know you left the lights stationary and the plants were all about the same height when you put into the tents, so just wondering how the stretching went.
> 
> Thanks!


I actually just trimmed the bulk of the leaves off on day 29. My buddy, whom I got this strain from, informed me that trimming at week 4 has significantly increased his yields. After doing a little research, I found validity to this, especially regarding the LA Con strain. I think it was helpful to the plants too because they were stressed already due the to the deficiency, so trimming lessened the size of the problem they would have to correct.

As far as stretch went, I didnt notice too much of a difference at all. I know they all did some stretching, but I didn't pay close enough attention to accurately talk on it. I will pay more attention to this next round.. I'll take measurements of height when they enter and then again after the first few weeks


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## WeJuana (Nov 12, 2011)

leogets said:


> talk is cheap kaptin kron we have all heard these boasts before but once again they are boasts without backup all to common in led threads ....
> 
> if your doing so great why dont you do a journel to help all led growers ?
> 
> ...



leogets.. why dont you take yourself and all 7 of your posts trollin on mine and Sleezys LED grows.. and actually go grow your own or.. at least do something concerning yourself.


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## leogets (Nov 12, 2011)

first im a hater cause i liked my blackstar led untill it broke 3 months into a 12 month warranty a warranty gothem hydro refused to honor so i had to protect my investment by doing a creditcard chargeback after talks broke down an gothem hydro did nothing ... yes im totaly at fault there clearly ... apon further research im not the only one this has happened to an i doubt ill be the last

now im a troll for calling a child on his bullshit you can go read his posts for yourself as many others have since i made that post

why does it seem like your whole purpose of this thread is to souly defend an promote blackstar and gothem hydro products ? you seem to get riled up as does sleezy anytime anyone calls people on there bullshit regarding blackstar products i mean i owned a 500 blackstar an still have the 240 i know there limitations they are still the best bang for buck led out there if you wanna run the risk of gothem dogging you on the warranty so you'd think for the purpose of this thread you'd also be calling that child on his bullshit 1 week he is a cfl pc case grower then the next in a tent then the next being shut down by his parents then the next he is pull pounds off a single led .. lol .. as that is the type of inflated crap led lights in general dont need going forward

why is it the more i check here the more i see the same type of posts regarding blackstar led's while other brands are alot more realistic and honest ?

why is it only gothem hydro that is going to these lengths to promote these led's in this way with misinformation and down right false advertisement and lies ? not to mention warranty they dont honor

all relevent questions regarding this thread , sleezys thread and both your attitudes

everythings alright till its not


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## WeJuana (Nov 13, 2011)

leogets said:


> first im a hater cause i liked my blackstar led untill it broke 3 months into a 12 month warranty a warranty gothem hydro refused to honor so i had to protect my investment by doing a creditcard chargeback after talks broke down an gothem hydro did nothing ... yes im totaly at fault there clearly ... apon further research im not the only one this has happened to an i doubt ill be the last
> 
> now im a troll for calling a child on his bullshit you can go read his posts for yourself as many others have since i made that post
> 
> ...


I understand your frustrations, I have only been working here a short distance. lol. You can have your beef with Gotham, but there is no need to bring it to a non related forum topic just because it is using Blackstars.

I would like you to please go quote any and all of my posts which you feel "defend and promote blackstar and gotham hydro products" because quite frankly, I feel I have been nothing but unbiased, and if that is NOT the case, I encourage ANYONE who reads this to please quote my posts and bring it to my attention.

I think it't not merely coincidental you posted on only 2 LED threads, it's obvious you are the one with the bias against Blackstar so please don't try to pawn it off on me like I have one.

I ask if you have a problem, you take it to the correct section, since RIU recently started a LED section it seems like that would be the appropriate place. 

I have no issue if you wish to participate on the thread, but don't bring your past problems that have nothing to do with me and my thread. Thanks.

If there are any "relevant questions regarding this thread" I failed to answer please let me know, but questioning me about Gotham Hydro's practices, or Sleezys are not included as relevant since they are not me.


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## maxpesh (Nov 13, 2011)

Good morning to all, the Sun is shining and it's in the high 70's, gonna go to the beach and look at all the nice titties, maybe a couple of beers. It is Sunday after all, time to chillax


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## Mohican (Nov 13, 2011)

High 70's and titties! What are you smoking? Oh...right. Nevermind


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## maxpesh (Nov 13, 2011)

Mohican said:


> High 70's and titties! What are you smoking? Oh...right. Nevermind


Just on my way now, I'm in Tenerife, all topless  and yes lots of peeps have a joint on the beach. Love Sundays if you know what I mean


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## nasar (Nov 13, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> At the moment all I can say is that I am sourcing my equipment or find a good quality manufacturer to build them to MY specifications i.e, the spectrums that I know work better specifically for mary jane. You noticed how Penetrator now uses Green, well that was my idea put forward to Cammie 18 months ago any she brushed it off, now glad I didn't say much else. But I have 25 years experience in the electronics industry, been growing for 15 years, I am not going to spam my company on these journals though. But I will make this promise. NO ONE will be getting ripped with over pricing and the spectrums will be perfect (8 of them). I will soon give out my price for my first light designed to replace a 600watt hps in 10ft square tent


That's good to hear maxpesh really look forward for your company to be launched and having wejuana trying out your light that will accommodate a 10ft square tent, and actually replacing a 600 watt hps. And as you promise the price won't be a rip off like hgl penetrator and glh spectra and hope for price competitive to blackstar. 

I will be waiting to purchase your light i have faith iin you and wejuana.


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## nasar (Nov 13, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I've never pulled less than 1.5gpw with LEDs ao we are already there man.


kaptain kron are you pulling 1.5 gpw with the blackstars? or kessils which do you prefer also what do you think of prakssa led lights?

let us know thanks
http://www.prakasa.co.uk/prakasa-400w-grow-lights-c-7.html


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## Endur0xX (Nov 13, 2011)

I gotta agree with leogets regarding Kaptain Kron`s cheap talk, Now that I hear that Kaptain Kron`s first grow got shut down by his parents, all of his posts are making a lot more sense now. Kaptain, you can stop talking like you have been growing for 10 years... <<I never pulled less than 1.5gpw>> like you have so many harvest under your belt, how many harvest do you actually have with this number? 1 ? you are just a kid in love with the stuff you buy  no offense 


I am not trollin, I just think that someone going from one thread to the next saying things like this is just giving false information, even though you could prove you did it once (I would like to see that) I dont think it`s right to talk as if it was the norm, I have seen a lot of LEDs grow online and it`s not like many people are pulling these numbers... even with A1 setup.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 13, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> When you say 450watts do you mean watts consumption ? Coz I'd like to see over 1g/watt on a regular basis then everyone going for the target of 2g/watt. Coz that's the day led's win


well in my LED dresser, I have only 2 plants and they were shock big time when I transplanted them about 20ish days ago (went from a big pot to smaller pot to fit the dresser), the plants are very small for their age. It`s a small dresser and I am an inexperienced grower, so I am just setting realistic goal to start with. I don`t really care about numbers for now I just want to see the light growing damn good buds though, then I will feel confident about LEDs!


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## maxpesh (Nov 13, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> well in my LED dresser, I have only 2 plants and they were shock big time when I transplanted them about 20ish days ago (went from a big pot to smaller pot to fit the dresser), the plants are very small for their age. It`s a small dresser and I am an inexperienced grower, so I am just setting realistic goal to start with. I don`t really care about numbers for now I just want to see the light growing damn good buds though, then I will feel confident about LEDs!


I am on this with you my friend and I can totally understand where you are coming from. There are a lot of led businesses try to find the correct solution to competing with HID for lower power consumption, and they are nearly there, but the shortfalls are totally obvious to me. Just be patient and see what happens in the next couple of months  We need to get rid of the cheap crap that doesn't deliver and bring down the prices of the so called decent lights. Too many greedy people. It's called KARMA !


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 13, 2011)

Hey WJ, still loving the Journal man....


Haters gonna hate....

Put on your hate blockers mayne, let that hate just roll off...


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## maxpesh (Nov 13, 2011)

LED haters are akin to putting a dying animal in a corner. Bites like fuck ) Anyway,,, the tits on the beach were good today


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## WeJuana (Nov 13, 2011)

nasar said:


> That's good to hear maxpesh really look forward for your company to be launched and having wejuana trying out your light that will accommodate a 10ft square tent, and actually replacing a 600 watt hps. And as you promise the price won't be a rip off like hgl penetrator and glh spectra and hope for price competitive to blackstar.
> 
> I will be waiting to purchase your light i have faith iin you and wejuana.


I am excited to learn about the light myself. Nothing is set in stone yet as far as me testing, but I am definitely interested in hearing about the product maxpesh!


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## jubiare (Nov 13, 2011)

Hey wejuana, how's the spectra doing? Any particular thoughts on it? Any burning, bleachin or strange deficiencies? Have you found out from GLH if is v1 or v2? 
Many many thanks


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## davoswavos (Nov 13, 2011)

My white widow x big bud flowering day 42 under bs 500.


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## WeJuana (Nov 13, 2011)

jubiare said:


> Hey wejuana, how's the spectra doing? Any particular thoughts on it? Any burning, bleachin or strange deficiencies? Have you found out from GLH if is v1 or v2?
> Many many thanks


I'm having a hard time making any judgements with these plants since they have been going through such issues. They have all seen quite a bit of abuse this run, the Penetrator tent I would say was the less stressed of the 3 tents nutrient wise.

Even with this harvest, I won't draw any conclusions on the lights just yet, as of the problems with this first run. I want to want to get 2 or 3 runs in without nute issue to get a fair result.

My lens has still not gotten here, but once it arrives I will get some full plant shots.


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## hippy132 (Nov 13, 2011)

jubiare said:


> Hey wejuana, how's the spectra doing? Any particular thoughts on it? Any burning, bleachin or strange deficiencies? Have you found out from GLH if is v1 or v2?
> Many many thanks


 Does it really matter, my understanding from Mike at GLH is that they will no longer be selling the 290's.


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## jubiare (Nov 13, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> Does it really matter, my understanding from Mike at GLH is that they will no longer be selling the 290's.


well, they are on sale on ebay


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## hippy132 (Nov 13, 2011)

sorry about that


jubiare said:


> well, they are on sale on ebay


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## Bad Karma (Nov 13, 2011)

jubiare said:


> well, they are on sale on ebay


They're dirt cheap with no returns accepted, hmmmm.
Mike never properly tested that batch of lights and now he's paying for it, literally.
I would be wary of picking up any Spectras on Ebay, considering the power supply failure issue associated with those models.
Hence Mike selling them off cheap so he can earn enough capital to manufacture more of the current model.

As for this "Ultimate LED Test", what was it that Thumper's mom said?


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 13, 2011)

Yes everything I've said and done is bullshit ya got me lol u guys are too much lol. Here's a vid, black star got a lil close last week and started to pull the chlorophyll out the leaves of herbs blue dream and it got hit with a full strength dose of big bid and it was a lil much for it. Backed it off to half strength on the next feeding and it was much happier. Now it's gettin overdrive at half strength for a bit and in about four weeks or so it'll be chopped. 

Here quit ur shit talking your wasting your bandwidth. It's people like u guys that bring a bad name to cannabis you have no respect for your fellow man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8NqXtkCmGs



And no offense bro I boost with a kessil on my blackstar for a reason go take a look at cannawizards grow with em i been usin em way before then. I dont speak on them alo bexause i won all four of mine with my friends in their facebook contest and i dont want to be called a sales man. THe one run I did blackstar alone netted me 1.5 on a 2x3 ebb and flow table. Blue dream in a 3 gallon pot and it shoulda been in a five and I fuckin had no room for a lot hat large in my cab  that shit is in week six with nugs hard as rocks. You ain't seen nothin yet wait til I run the ebb next cycle. This is just a soil run cause my mother got too big and I had no more soil at the time. A lil love a lil training and LEDs 



Endur0xX said:


> I gotta agree with leogets regarding Kaptain Kron`s cheap talk, Now that I hear that Kaptain Kron`s first grow got shut down by his parents, all of his posts are making a lot more sense now. Kaptain, you can stop talking like you have been growing for 10 years... <<I never pulled less than 1.5gpw>> like you have so many harvest under your belt, how many harvest do you actually have with this number? 1 ? you are just a kid in love with the stuff you buy  no offense
> 
> 
> I am not trollin, I just think that someone going from one thread to the next saying things like this is just giving false information, even though you could prove you did it once (I would like to see that) I dont think it`s right to talk as if it was the norm, I have seen a lot of LEDs grow online and it`s not like many people are pulling these numbers... even with A1 setup.


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## WeJuana (Nov 14, 2011)

Things are still looking pretty ehhh in the tents. The buds are growing but the plants got it pretty bad. I cant believe I was muffing up the nutes as long as I was without noticing :/ I'd say these are in the running for the scariest looking crops I have put out to date.. but luckily its looking mostly up from here on the next batches. 

I have Trinity Kush (Penetrator) and Power Africa (Blackstar) in the tents and they are doing a world better with the right nutes.. here is a pic of the trinity (today is day 21)






Here are the LA Cons Day 34 of 12-12

Spectra





Bud Site






Blackstar





Bud Site






Penetrator





Bud Site






Round 2 of LA Cons are looking mighty nice.. I noticed the start of calcium deficiency (few small red dots on the leaves) which just popped up today. I am going to grab Botnicare's Cal/Mag tomorrow.. I was reading the Mag-Pro I have from Dyna-Gro and there is no calcium in it.. so I will be swapping those for the next round of LA Cons and for the remainder of the Trinity and Power Africa which I am using more as tests to ensure I got the nutes right this time on the next LA Cons.


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## maxpesh (Nov 14, 2011)

Hey Wejuana, looking good, I have to say though that the Penetrator is now looking better, just not a thousand bucks better, however still a ways to go yet. I got my design finished now for my light, all my prices are in and I think people are gonna be happy with the specs and cost


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## WeJuana (Nov 14, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Hey Wejuana, looking good, I have to say though that the Penetrator is now looking better, just not a thousand bucks better, however still a ways to go yet. I got my design finished now for my light, all my prices are in and I think people are gonna be happy with the specs and cost


Awesome! I sent an email and am looking forward to your reply with product info.

Regards


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## maxpesh (Nov 14, 2011)

Sorry never received an email ???? anyway ! Details .

Hi, it will cover a 3ft x 3ft grow tent for flowering 
The estimated purchase price is going to be $570 . The unit consumes 260watts on average. Comes with a newly designed focusing lens to increase par in the focused area by about 20% (similar lens as the advanced diamond series). Also to note that these are not the cheap chinese led's and the build quality of the unit is second to none and WILL replace a 600watt hps. I have tailored the spectrum specifically for resinous plants but it will also grow anything else. So even at the edge of a 3ft x 3ft grow area at 15-18 inches above the canopy the light should still hit the the PAR saturation point of Cannabis. As with all LED's, ( even though the penetration of this light is very high) I always recommend the scrogg method of growing to maximise production. So there you have it, no BS and other company's would be selling this baby for a hell of a higher price .
I hope this is going to be satisfactory for everyone as this is the best possible price for the quality I can offer. But I promise as I said before, no BS !


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## maxpesh (Nov 14, 2011)

Sorry Wej not trying to Hijack ur thread just giving you the info.
Areas I have targeted are Chlorophll A and B peaks, cartenoid peaks,Phycocyanin,intra-leaf light absorption profile, and Emerson effect. All in the best possible ratios for example there are nearly 3 times 660nm as 620nm.


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## WeJuana (Nov 14, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Sorry Wej not trying to Hijack ur thread just giving you the info.


Not a problem. I PM'd you.


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## jubiare (Nov 14, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Hey Wejuana, looking good, I have to say though that the Penetrator is now looking better, just not a thousand bucks better, however still a ways to go yet. I got my design finished now for my light, all my prices are in and I think people are gonna be happy with the specs and cost


Can I ask you what brand diodes are you gonna emply for each color? And if nothing is all set, I'd be really pleased to see you employing Osram Golden dragon, bridgelux for the blues and cree xp-e


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## maxpesh (Nov 14, 2011)

jubiare said:


> Can I ask you what brand diodes are you gonna emply for each color? And if nothing is all set, I'd be really pleased to see you employing Osram Golden dragon, bridgelux for the blues and cree xp-e


 Cree Bridgelux and Epistar


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## WeJuana (Nov 14, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I have Trinity Kush (Penetrator) and Power Africa (Blackstar) in the tents and they are doing a world better with the right nutes..


I decided to put up journals for these babies in case there is any interest on the fast track to see how the individual lights do for the plants with proper nutes. They are the exact same age and time in flower, but I do not intend these to be compared to each other since they are different strains.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/486633-power-africa-blackstar-500w-led.html
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/486631-trinity-kush-penetrator-336x.html


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## PSUAGRO. (Nov 14, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I decided to put up journals for these babies in case there is any interest on the fast track to see how the individual lights do for the plants with proper nutes. They are the exact same age and time in flower, but I do not intend these to be compared to each other since they are different strains.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/486633-power-africa-blackstar-500w-led.html
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/486631-trinity-kush-penetrator-336x.html


Damn Wejuana, you are a busy man........ Bet you love those smart pots..


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## WeJuana (Nov 14, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Damn Wejuana, you are a busy man........ Bet you love those smart pots..


I really love hydro! lol. I figured for comparison sake as well as going perpetual, it would be easier just to go soil. 
But as far as soil growing goes, I definitely prefer smart pots to plastic! It makes for much more even drying.


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## maxpesh (Nov 14, 2011)

Thread is quiet today ?


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## nasar (Nov 14, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> View attachment 1886044My white widow x big bud flowering day 42 under bs 500.


those are some beautiful buds there what space and how many plant are growing? really love to see what the black star doing for you any more pics?


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## nasar (Nov 14, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Hey Wejuana, looking good, I have to say though that the Penetrator is now looking better, just not a thousand bucks better, however still a ways to go yet. I got my design finished now for my light, all my prices are in and I think people are gonna be happy with the specs and cost


Hey maxpesh you got specs for the lights and pics? i would love to try your leds if they can beat the penatrator xtreme with X lens they look innovative.


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## nasar (Nov 14, 2011)

maxpesh thanks i have checked specs now so in a 3x3 how many plants could you grow to full maturity? from seed or clones? or is it just scrog that you recommend.


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## davoswavos (Nov 14, 2011)

nasar said:


> those are some beautiful buds there what space and how many plant are growing? really love to see what the black star doing for you any more pics?


2'x3' and there are 2 white widow x big buds from female seeds and there's a blue berry and 2 clones I took off the wwxbb's not in the pic but there on the outer edge of the grow until the 2 big plants are out of there. here's a pic that shows a couple buds from the other wwxbb that's on the right they are different phenos and the plant on the left is maturing faster but the one on the right is growing some bigger buds.


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## davoswavos (Nov 14, 2011)

Here's a pic from farther away bottom left 2 colas are the 2 clones and there just single cola plants that are like 16 days behind or so and to the right of those is the blue berry with its 2 tops. and of course behind those are the 2 wwxbb plants


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## WeJuana (Nov 14, 2011)

[video=youtube;Aw8glTP7tkY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw8glTP7tkY[/video]


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## maxpesh (Nov 15, 2011)

nasar said:


> maxpesh thanks i have checked specs now so in a 3x3 how many plants could you grow to full maturity? from seed or clones? or is it just scrog that you recommend.


Hi Nasar exactly the same amount of plants you would grow in Scrogg with any other lighting that are in that area (also depends how big you have grown them in Veg). I usually go clones as the cuttings are Genetically the same age as the mother plant and once they have established a good amount of roots you can feed more earlier. But Scrog is definitely the way to go.However if you want to grow vertical it's not a problem because the new light will Penetrate amazingly well. Got ur pm and I will be in touch, many thanks


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## maxpesh (Nov 15, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> [video=youtube;Aw8glTP7tkY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw8glTP7tkY[/video]


Penetrator buds look heavier and denser, Blackstar seems to be doing ok too.


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## nasar (Nov 15, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Hi Nasar exactly the same amount of plants you would grow in Scrogg with any other lighting that are in that area (also depends how big you have grown them in Veg). I usually go clones as the cuttings are Genetically the same age as the mother plant and once they have established a good amount of roots you can feed more earlier. But Scrog is definitely the way to go.However if you want to grow vertical it's not a problem because the new light will Penetrate amazingly well. Got ur pm and I will be in touch, many thanks


Hi thanks for reply i'm a noob and would like to get the perfect lights so i never have to upgrade, i do understand the principal about cuttings, as i'm a beginner i would like to let the plant grow natural first with out sog/scrog/lst/fim/super-cropping and preferably from seed then eventually use clones, so the plants may end up 3 to 4 foot. As you said this light replaces 600 watt HPS, i wanted to use it so i could pack as many plants in a 3x3 area and grow natural then as i get a few yields under my belt i would like to use the techniques, 
scrog/super-crop/lst/fim/sog. Sog is the method i really would like to employ as as scrog takes really long to grow.


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## maxpesh (Nov 15, 2011)

nasar said:


> Hi thanks for reply i'm a noob and would like to get the perfect lights so i never have to upgrade, i do understand the principal about cuttings, as i'm a beginner i would like to let the plant grow natural first with out sog/scrog/lst/fim/super-cropping and preferably from seed then eventually use clones, so the plants may end up 3 to 4 foot. As you said this light replaces 600 watt HPS, i wanted to use it so i could pack as many plants in a 3x3 area and grow natural then as i get a few yields under my belt i would like to use the techniques,
> scrog/super-crop/lst/fim/sog. Sog is the method i really would like to employ as as scrog takes really long to grow.


The reason I use Scrog is because I just have a mother plant and when my plants go into flower room I can get the next lot started 2 weeks later in another tent therefore a couple of week for clones to root and then 4 weeks veg therefore a full harvest every 8 weeks. But Sog green is also a good idea. The more intense the light (within reason)the better.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 15, 2011)

Hey max do you have any pics of anything grown with your light?


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## maxpesh (Nov 15, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Hey max do you have any pics of anything grown with your light?


Not yet, I have been in negotiations with the assembly plant about prices and spectrum's and diodes, not nasty Chinese copies but genuine Cree, Bridgelux and Epistar, So have just about finalized everything and will do a first grow with the prototype soon for my own results, but I don't expect anyone to take my words on faith as words are cheap. But soon as I have finished the grow I will be donating the light to an independent grower for testing in a 3ft x 3ft area. Already will have a 3 yr guarantee though. Like I said, I am hoping to launch the company somewhere near the end of January and ship worldwide. Up to now though, specs & price : 8 bands, actual power consumption 260watts, very high build quality fully finned heatsinks + silicon heatpad transfer, ultra quiet fans and extra focusing lens for each diode. Estimated price $570. So high end product competing on price with cheap models. See what can be achieved without greed ? Up to now I have had many people with some very kind words on here so this WILL definitely happen as soon as I can do it.


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## ejbarraza (Nov 15, 2011)

so how many LED's are u planning on putting into the light....and are they going to be 1, 2, 3 watt diodes or a mix of them.....also will the 3 year warranty require very specific and impossible hurdles to be jumped so that the warranty can cover the light if there should be a defective light or if it just simply stops working after a year? I have high hopes for you and your company so best of luck and I'd also love to test out your light


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 15, 2011)

Sounds good max I'm Ina place where six bills becomes real money if for some reason your light doesn't perform. That being said its why I'm having issues deciding who to go with for my next light purchase anyways. I need more juice I'm gettin awesome yields off what I got but it's not enough to meet demand so I need to step up. I too have high hopes for this light and I'll be wAtchin closely to see how everything goes for ya. Best of luck. I hope you bring us a bad ass light


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 15, 2011)

Also that's an excellent price on a light in that draw range. I've got he money it's just ao hard to part with it because I canT afford to be wrong right now lol


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## maxpesh (Nov 15, 2011)

ejbarraza said:


> so how many LED's are u planning on putting into the light....and are they going to be 1, 2, 3 watt diodes or a mix of them.....also will the 3 year warranty require very specific and impossible hurdles to be jumped so that the warranty can cover the light if there should be a defective light or if it just simply stops working after a year? I have high hopes for you and your company so best of luck and I'd also love to test out your light


 All 3 watt genuine diodes outputting at max efficiency lumens. Guarantee is rock solid. Honesty is the policy !


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## maxpesh (Nov 15, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Also that's an excellent price on a light in that draw range. I've got he money it's just ao hard to part with it because I canT afford to be wrong right now lol


Just as I have said. Not gonna be ready until January. The light is going to be my baby and I'm certainly not gonna rip anyone off, I am a great believer in Karma. Just replied to a previous post and this is gonna be my motto for the company. "Honesty is the policy". I am just like anyone else, been burned in the past and this is one of the reasons why I am doing this.


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## hippy132 (Nov 15, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Just as I have said. Not gonna be ready until January. The light is going to be my baby and I'm certainly not gonna rip anyone off, I am a great believer in Karma. Just replied to a previous post and this is gonna be my motto for the company. "Honesty is the policy". I am just like anyone else, been burned in the past and this is one of the reasons why I am doing this.


I think, that if you are paying half of what you are selling them for, then that&#8217;s an almost fair deal. So, as a retailer, I pay $100 for an item with overhead and brick and mortar costs, I should sell it for $200. That&#8217;s 100% markup, not unusual, but wonder what the markup is on the LEDs', just saying...


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## KawiZZR (Nov 15, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> I think, that if you are paying half of what you are selling them for, then thats an almost fair deal. So, as a retailer, I pay $100 for an item with overhead and brick and mortar costs, I should sell it for $200. Thats 100% markup, not unusual, but wonder what the markup is on the LEDs', just saying...


In a lot of industries a 100% markup is extremely low and almost unheard of, especially for high end or niche goods. Food, clothing, furniture, jewelry, cars, etc all have higher markups than this in many cases.


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## ejbarraza (Nov 15, 2011)

To me it seems like LED companies just add a zero at the end of the total that they spend on making it.


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## maxpesh (Nov 16, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> I think, that if you are paying half of what you are selling them for, then that&#8217;s an almost fair deal. So, as a retailer, I pay $100 for an item with overhead and brick and mortar costs, I should sell it for $200. That&#8217;s 100% markup, not unusual, but wonder what the markup is on the LEDs', just saying...


If it was a 100% mark up it would be a LOT more expensive that $570


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## maxpesh (Nov 16, 2011)

KawiZZR said:


> In a lot of industries a 100% markup is extremely low and almost unheard of, especially for high end or niche goods. Food, clothing, furniture, jewelry, cars, etc all have higher markups than this in many cases.


Well my mark up is nowhere near what you are thinking, speculate all you like but don't think everyone is the same, there are,( believe it or not) some people in this world who aren't greedy.


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## maxpesh (Nov 16, 2011)

ejbarraza said:


> To me it seems like LED companies just add a zero at the end of the total that they spend on making it.


I believe some may do that ) LOL


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## stak (Nov 16, 2011)

I worked for a lighting company for several years, about half of that doing quotes, and we usually tried to get around 30% (long) markup from cost.


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## maxpesh (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi wejuana. How are the girls coming along. Looking forward to the seeing finished product


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## WeJuana (Nov 16, 2011)

Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 16, 2011)

Blackstar caught back up nice


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## maxpesh (Nov 16, 2011)

Hope to see some nice big fat ass buds !


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## KawiZZR (Nov 16, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Well my mark up is nowhere near what you are thinking, speculate all you like but don't think everyone is the same, there are,( believe it or not) some people in this world who aren't greedy.


I wasn't implying that you're gonna try ripping people off. Anything below $2.5/w seems pretty fair to me. I was just saying that it isn't uncommon for things to be marked up a whole lot.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 16, 2011)

Indeed this is true this lights thrown a wrench in my planning other led companies have me so jaded it's hard to believe anything anymore lol. True or not it's sad really could you let us know max exactly what spectrums are using what LEDs and also what model led from the manufacturer ur purchasing from. I want to compare componentry to a few other lights I'm lookin at


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## maxpesh (Nov 16, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Indeed this is true this lights thrown a wrench in my planning other led companies have me so jaded it's hard to believe anything anymore lol. True or not it's sad really could you let us know max exactly what spectrums are using what LEDs and also what model led from the manufacturer ur purchasing from. I want to compare componentry to a few other lights I'm lookin at


Ok, it's a rotten spanner but I understand where you are coming from. I didn't want to mention any other company's because I don't want to participate in any slanging matches, but as far as I can tell at the moment the nearest light that is coming close to what I would buy is from a company called Growstealth (not Stealthgrow). They do a GSL300watt PRO BLOOM ($749) and this is a very good led fixture. I, however have have taken this one step further with my design by incorporating more advanced focusing lenses AND using my own spectrum and build quality demands. I totally understand anyone who wants to "shop around" because this is the normal thing to do. All I can say, is that I am willing and able to put something new into the mix and in the meantime "up" the benchmark. Just watch this space


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## maxpesh (Nov 16, 2011)

KawiZZR said:


> I wasn't implying that you're gonna try ripping people off. Anything below $2.5/w seems pretty fair to me. I was just saying that it isn't uncommon for things to be marked up a whole lot.


Thank you. All I want to do is provide something that is good and honest ! I hate greed, because at the end of the day we ALL end up in the same place.


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## WeJuana (Nov 16, 2011)

Let's let the lights do the talking. Let me know when your getting close to getting the lights.. but until then lets try to ease up a little on all the new light talk and focus on what we have going.


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## WeJuana (Nov 16, 2011)

[video=youtube;WfTdBX5MM8U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfTdBX5MM8U[/video]

New lens got here today!  Vid of the flower tents uploading now. Here are the LA Cons (ROUND2) in the meantime.


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## maxpesh (Nov 17, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Let's let the lights do the talking. Let me know when your getting close to getting the lights.. but until then lets try to ease up a little on all the new light talk and focus on what we have going.


I agree 100%


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

[video=youtube;kQuIq8yezDA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQuIq8yezDA[/video]


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## maxpesh (Nov 17, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> [video=youtube;kQuIq8yezDA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQuIq8yezDA[/video]


 20 more days to go ? I know this is not a grow about weight but does anyone care to take a guess dry weight of trimmed bud for each plant, no stalks left on at all ? Just a bit of fun. My guess. Spectra 22g, Blackstar 38g. Penetrator 45g. But who knows in 20 more days I could be a mile out.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 17, 2011)

I hope you are a full marathon out, ...


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## maxpesh (Nov 17, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> I hope you are a full marathon out, ...


hehe, what do you think then ?


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

Hmmm I can't even begin to guess haven been wAtchin the vids just lookin at pics


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## Endur0xX (Nov 17, 2011)

dunno but if that`s all he gets, I dont see the point of spending so much time growing!! 22g!!? the last thing I want is spend 50+days caring for a plant under 1 light and get 4 days worth of smoke!? I sure hope it`s a lot higher that`s all. I am new to growing but I think that 1 plant under 1 light with that much wattage should get much better result than 22g!!!

what`s up witht the famed 1.5 gpw that the average Joe is suppose to get with LEDs!?


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## hippy132 (Nov 17, 2011)

The 290 looks like it barely did the job compared to the others. WTF, notice also few comments from others using GLH, hope this test is not a good example for the lite, but who knows anymore... anyone want to buy some used glh lites, LOL...


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## davoswavos (Nov 17, 2011)

@Enduroxx 

you smoke 22g in 4 days and your new to growing? how did you afford to buy that much when you weren't growing are you smoking schwag? damn the shit I'm smoking would fry your mind if you smoked that much you wouldn't even be able to function.


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> dunno but if that`s all he gets, I dont see the point of spending so much time growing!! 22g!!? the last thing I want is spend 50+days caring for a plant under 1 light and get 4 days worth of smoke!? I sure hope it`s a lot higher that`s all. I am new to growing but I think that 1 plant under 1 light with that much wattage should get much better result than 22g!!!
> 
> what`s up witht the famed 1.5 gpw that the average Joe is suppose to get with LEDs!?


only a troll has ever claimed to get 1.5 gpw


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## davoswavos (Nov 17, 2011)

yeah I would be talking out my ass if I said I've got 1.5gpw all I know is I grow some good smoke and plenty enough for me and that's what floats my boat. I don't even think you could fit 450 grams under the coverage area of a blackstar 500 sure be nice if you could though.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 17, 2011)

It was a bit of an exageration, I only smoke 5g a day for 6 months of the year ... in the winter I only smoke 2  ... and yes it's very expensive and I get the good stuff,... so that's why I am here now


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## jubiare (Nov 17, 2011)

stak said:


> only a troll has ever claimed to get 1.5 gpw


That's not true my friend
Evo leds, Mr X gROW, 4 units drawing 70w each of light
1.73 g/w


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

jubiare said:


> That's not true my friend
> Evo leds, Mr X gROW, 4 units drawing 70w each of light
> 1.73 g/w
> View attachment 1892479View attachment 1892480


my bad, I didn't realize more than one person was making that claim. my comment was only directed at one person in this thread (definitely not you). I was refering to the high schooler that grows in his parents house and is running around claiming to never pull anything less than 1.4gpw with LED's.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

Its been done haters like to hate its not easy it takes hard work and lots of training but it's been done. 

I see your still havin fun takin things out of context lol. It's easy to hate when u don't get the results u want isn't it? I'm sorry I had such good pulls and it makes u upset lol


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

pulls you have no proof of even though all of your "grows" have been documented here on RIU since you got that blackstar light less than a year ago? okay then.





Kaptain Kron said:


> I've never pulled less than 1.5gpw with LEDs ao we are already there man.


please explain how I took this full post of yours out of context?


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

Here's some math for you to shut ur fuckin face. 3 kessil h150s use 108 watts of draw to pull 1.5 gpw I would only have to land 5.7 ounces dry. That's not shit man lol those h150s shit that out for breakfast if your running three of em so stop running your mouth about how LEDs aren't good for 1.5gpw math > ur opinion any day. I'm not the only one claiming those numbers. Let's name a few budbaby, grumpy old dreamer, mr x grow should I keep going??? I don't think I need to. It's doable it's been done and I don't have anything to prove to a bunch of Internet forum haters. LEDs work. Don't believe it try it for yourself. Just dont go blamin the lights if you don't yield well because it's a totally different style of growing than hid growing. 

This thread has really lost its luster lately


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

stak said:


> pulls you have no proof of even though all of your "grows" have been documented here on RIU since you got that blackstar light less than a year ago? okay then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well sure that's easy I wasn referring to that post lol. I don't need proof lol I proved it to myself lol also proved it to my partners also proved it to the people on this forum who know me personally and whose people opinions I actually care about lol that's all that matters ha ha not ur opinion


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## maxpesh (Nov 17, 2011)

Just finished watching the latest episode of Modern Family and sorry guys but I think Sofia Vergara is even more sexy than a Mary Jane, have I lost my mind ? HELP !


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## Bad Karma (Nov 17, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Just finished watching the latest episode of Modern Family and sorry guys but I think Sofia Vergara is even more sexy than a Mary Jane, have I lost my mind ? HELP !


Muy caliente, me gusta!


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> This thread has really lost its luster lately


Sickly plants arent the funnest to watch lol. I have a feeling when the new batch hits the tents things will pick back up again. I also just took some new clones from some new strains.. so that will be a nice surprise for the thread as well when they are ready.


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Well sure that's easy I wasn referring to that post lol. I don't need proof lol I proved it to myself lol also proved it to my partners also proved it to the people on this forum who know me personally and whose people opinions I actually care about lol that's all that matters ha ha not ur opinion


so then I wasn't taking anything out of context and you're just making shit up then? so you're not content with making up false yields now you're just gonna start making everything uo?


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

Lol what are u talking about I was referring to ur lost where u say I'm in high school and growing without my parents permission and all kinds of absolutely childish things you've said lol. I don't have to prove shit to you. I've proved it already to the only people whose opinions I give a shit about. Yours is not one of them. I could care less if u believe me lol. You and every single one of the other haters just makes me laugh that much harder as I sit here and puff dank lol.


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

yup just keep on lying. one day you'll figure out that you ain't gotta lie to kick it.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

If it makes u feel better to call me a liar go ahead. Lol I have no desire to kick it with people like you lol, haters aren't fun to hang out with. The people I chill with are research heads and grow addicts like me not haters like you lol


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

how can you be a grow addict when you're not even a real grower?


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

U can continue to pretend u know me or u can waste ur breath elsewhere lol it's all good either way it's givin me laughs


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

lol cmon.. cut it out. Just ask yourselves why the need to prove anything to anyone.. especially someone you don't know on the net.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

Exactly my point I don't need to prove shit


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## maxpesh (Nov 17, 2011)

Chill, everyone chill.


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## PSUAGRO. (Nov 17, 2011)

Yeah Wejuana, almost every led thread turns into this....
Just keep growing and enjoy this beautiful hobby......
Honestly you're doing us a service by showing this led comparison.........thanx


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## maxpesh (Nov 17, 2011)

Bad Karma said:


> Muy caliente, me gusta![/QUOTE
> 
> Sí me gustaría follar


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Exactly my point I don't need to prove shit


 holy shit! that's the only time you said you don't need to prove anything and then actually didn't try to prove it.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

This guy just keeps gettin funnier lol I'm glad I took a bong time right now lol it made hat so much funnier


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> This guy just keeps gettin funnier lol I'm glad I took a bong time right now lol it made hat so much funnier


yup just keep on lying.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 17, 2011)

Ha ha I cant even take a bong time without lying oh the horror of it all lol ha ha ha dood u could make some money get off the net and hit an open mike night or somthin lol ha ha ha


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

Both of you please stop if you wish to participate on this thread. Go start a topic in Toke and Talk and bicker if that's what you feel like doing with your time. I'd like to keep it grow oriented on this thread.

I appreciate it.


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


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## Endur0xX (Nov 17, 2011)

Hey Wej, what kind of yield are you expecting of each plant just from looking at them ... you know just a rough estimate? thanks


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## PrezDickie (Nov 17, 2011)

I gotta say I'm underwhelmed by the spectra's performance


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## Bad Karma (Nov 17, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Sí me gustaría follar


Otra vez, y otra vez, y otra vez!!!


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

PrezDickie said:


> I gotta say I'm underwhelmed by the spectra's performance


I wish I didnt muff up the nutes soo bad because it would be easier to definitively say it was the light. Next round I plan on switching out the 300 for the 2 150s to try for a better foot print so we may never know as far as the 300 goes.



Endur0xX said:


> Hey Wej, what kind of yield are you expecting of each plant just from looking at them ... you know just a rough estimate? thanks


Im not good at projecting yields and there is still a few weeks left so its all depending on what happens during the final "swell"

I would guesstimate around a 2 oz per plant avg. I did expect small yields from the start due to the small 3 gal pots and believe I even mentioned so on the first few pages of the thread.


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## tenthirty (Nov 17, 2011)

What would yo say the footprint is for the blackstar?

Thanks


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

tenthirty said:


> What would yo say the footprint is for the blackstar?
> 
> Thanks


I have it 55" from the floor and its definitely able to cover a 4x4 tent sufficiently.


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## coolj (Nov 17, 2011)

wow Wejuana U have got a bunch of caklin bitches posting on ur thread bro, Like dam pull it out and post a pick so the girls can say which one is bigger!!!!! Or got get a room!!!


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## coolj (Nov 17, 2011)

It looks like blackstar is the light to beat, the others seem like costly trash..Even if u get more yield from the 335x it wont really mean any thing because for the price of that light it shoulda blown the other 2 right out of the test 2 weeks ago, LOL


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

looks like they're all performing like costly trash.


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## coolj (Nov 17, 2011)

stak said:


> looks like they're all performing like costly trash.


LOL What do u want to see in a led grow light? and what is the most u wanna pay?


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

stak said:


> looks like they're all performing like costly trash.


I beg to differ. Since I messed up the nutrient regiment so bad, and was completely lacking Calcium until the last 2 watering, there is no way to definitively say the lights are the cause of the plants looking this way.

I have a few plants going with proper nutes in the same tents > https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/486631-trinity-kush-penetrator-336x.html and https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/486633-power-africa-blackstar-500w-led.html


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

coolj said:


> LOL What do u want to see in a led grow light? and what is the most u wanna pay?


I see everything I need in the two that I already have. And I'm okay with what I paid for both (about $500 for the first and about $600 for the second).


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## Endur0xX (Nov 17, 2011)

how did you find out that your plants were lacking calcium again ?


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## stak (Nov 17, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I beg to differ. Since I messed up the nutrient regiment so bad, and was completely lacking Calcium until the last 2 watering, there is no way to definitively say the lights are the cause of the plants looking this way.
> 
> I have a few plants going with proper nutes in the same tents > https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/486631-trinity-kush-penetrator-336x.html and https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/486633-power-africa-blackstar-500w-led.html


I know it's not the lights that's making them look so bad. I was being sarcastic. all of them look the same. they're all tiny underdeveloped buds about the size of a thumb. yet people are chiming in saying that XXXX light is clearly in the lead. or XXXX light is catching up. or those lights are clearly costly trash. it's all crap yet people are trying to use them to justify one of these lights as being the best. even though the lights aren't to blame none of them looks good based on this comparison grow.


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> how did you find out that your plants were lacking calcium again ?


i
The LA Con clones started having little red spots pop up on the leaves with the very tips of the leaves turning green and curling downward. I hadn't seen this before so I google'd it (and image searched) and that's what I came up with. I then checked the nutes, and the only thing that had any trace of calcium was the B52 (advanced nutes) with a very small amount of calcium nitrate.

Usually calcium is added with the iron and magnesium in most Cal-Mag solutions.. but the Dyna-Gro Mag-Pro has neither iron or calcium from what I can tell.


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## WeJuana (Nov 17, 2011)

stak said:


> I know it's not the lights that's making them look so bad. I was being sarcastic. all of them look the same. they're all tiny underdeveloped buds about the size of a thumb. yet people are chiming in saying that XXXX light is clearly in the lead. or XXXX light is catching up. or those lights are clearly costly trash. it's all crap yet people are trying to use them to justify one of these lights as being the best. even though the lights aren't to blame none of them looks good based on this comparison grow.


Yeah I do apologize its taking so long.. lol. I usually mess with Hydro but went soil for the sake of the comparison and harvesting perpetual to a fair amount of runs through in a timely manor. My buddy suggested the Dyna-Gro full line as the easiest route.. and then I have a good amount of extra additives from AN that I use and added to the regiment. I just failed to check for the presence of every element in the regiment and I was suggested to use and I payed for it.

Once the 2nd round's little bit of calcium deficiency is corrected Ill send them into flower. It wont take very long at all; I want to make sure this is done right this time.


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## PSUAGRO. (Nov 17, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Yeah I do apologize its taking so long.. lol. I usually mess with Hydro but went soil for the sake of the comparison and harvesting perpetual to a fair amount of runs through in a timely manor. My buddy suggested the Dyna-Gro full line as the easiest route.. and then I have a good amount of extra additives from AN that I use and added to the regiment. I just failed to check for the presence of every element in the regiment and I was suggested to use and I payed for it.
> 
> Once the 2nd round's little bit of calcium deficiency is corrected Ill send them into flower. It wont take very long at all; I want to make sure this is done right this time.



Don't apologize to anyone...........It's your grow, do whatever the [email protected] you want.....
You spent 4 grand on lights and are willing to share their performance on the net to us deciding on light purchases or justifications of those purchases....
either way your the one with the "light bill' so we are in for the ride...........happy growing and be safe


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## maxpesh (Nov 18, 2011)

I just use tap water once a week for calcium, just let it stand overnight to evaporate any chlorine off and put in a sprinkling of Epsom Salts, not telling anyone how to grow, that's just what I do growing in soil or especially coco an I don't have any problems at all. I noticed that someone asked WeJuana how he knew it was Calcium def. Well this is a great page with photos off all MJ plant problems, have a look http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Thanks-ThankYou.htm


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## WeJuana (Nov 18, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> I just use tap water once a week for calcium, just let it stand overnight to evaporate any chlorine off and put in a sprinkling of Epsom Salts, not telling anyone how to grow, that's just what I do growing in soil or especially coco an I don't have any problems at all. I noticed that someone asked WeJuana how he knew it was Calcium def. Well this is a great page with photos off all MJ plant problems, have a look http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Thanks-ThankYou.htm


Im using a zero waste kit on the RO system so it pumps the waste RO to the hot water heater. We also have a water softener, so I am weary of using our water out of the tap.


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## maxpesh (Nov 18, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Im using a zero waste kit on the RO system so it pumps the waste RO to the hot water heater. We also have a water softener, so I am weary of using our water out of the tap.


 Yep I understand, too many salts from a water softener. Of course you could install a tap from the input of your water softener thereby taking off a supply before it goes into your softener system. Just once a week and this solves my calcium deficiency problem without over doing it. Too much calc though will lock out Mg


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## leogets (Nov 18, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Exactly my point I don't need to prove shit


 yeah your previous grows and posts are all the proof needed taking pics off other forums is extremly foolish and pathetic 

i no you dont care but lying like you do is a complex disorder brought about by your disfunctional relationship with your parents and the death of a sibling i feel sorry for people like you as pharma drugs are the only thing capable of fixing the chemical imbalances in your brain an cannabis seems to only fuel the self destructive nature of such disorders 

the way you act and the depth of your lies has me concerned what you might be doing irl

i hope you seek the help you need before you end up in a situation you may regret people like your are the reason for medical patient disclaimers


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## hoss12781 (Nov 18, 2011)

my 2 cents on nutes for LED plants (apologies if I've already mentioned in this thread but it's going on 90 pages now!). I'm a fox farms man, and have found using Bush Dr. Microbe Brew the whole way through combined with every other watering doses of calmag plus all the way through, along with FF Tiger Bloom at the first signs of flowering, and Cha-Ching the last two weeks combined with a Sledgehammer flush has worked very well in my garden. 

This is basically the same formula I was using with HPS but had to add more cal mag plus when I switched to led to avoid any def.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 18, 2011)

Really going so far as to say I take pics off another forum that's a low blow bro. U won't find my pics anywhere online except here or on one other forum that weenies like you don't have access too. 

Unsubbed from this grow too many trolls and haters have fun wejuana



leogets said:


> yeah your previous grows and posts are all the proof needed taking pics off other forums is extremly foolish and pathetic
> 
> i no you dont care but lying like you do is a complex disorder brought about by your disfunctional relationship with your parents and the death of a sibling i feel sorry for people like you as pharma drugs are the only thing capable of fixing the chemical imbalances in your brain an cannabis seems to only fuel the self destructive nature of such disorders
> 
> ...


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## WeJuana (Nov 18, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Really going so far as to say I take pics off another forum that's a low blow bro. U won't find my pics anywhere online except here or on one other forum that weenies like you don't have access too.
> 
> Unsubbed from this grow too many trolls and haters have fun wejuana


Sorry to see you go if thats what you decide but I tried to stop it before it got to this point. You said you didnt have to prove anything, but if you followed through and did NOT respond to these people you dont know over the net, then they wouldn't keep going with it. Actions speak louder than words, you have to decide you actually don't care and stop the bickering. Let the comments roll off like rain and don't respond. 

They obviously lack something in their life, or just have the luxury of having enough spare time to make demeaning comments which will in no way benefit them. I on the other hand do not have time to pull my doctorate out and break everything down, nor is this the place for it.

*Lets keep it growing oriented please, I ask nicely again. I do not want to feel like I am acting as a moderator to what people say. Conduct yourself like a legit growers if your on this thread or I will notify admins.*


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## maxpesh (Nov 18, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Sorry to see you go if thats what you decide but I tried to stop it before it got to this point. You said you didnt have to prove anything, but if you followed through and did NOT respond to these people you dont know over the net, then they wouldn't keep going with it. Actions speak louder than words, you have to decide you actually don't care and stop the bickering. Let the comments roll off like rain and don't respond.
> 
> They obviously lack something in their life, or just have the luxury of having enough spare time to make demeaning comments which will in no way benefit them. I on the other hand do not have time to pull my doctorate out and break everything down, nor is this the place for it.
> 
> *Lets keep it growing oriented please, I ask nicely again. I do not want to feel like I am acting as a moderator to what people say. Conduct yourself like a legit growers if your on this thread or I will notify admins.*


I second that motion !

There is no need to argue over stupid little things & I thought pot heads were supposed to be chilled out. Have another toke


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## FMCCNate (Nov 18, 2011)

Grow up people and watch the show


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## WeJuana (Nov 18, 2011)

Check the post above yours and do not completely ignore me on my own thread or you will be gone leogets. Have a little respect please.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 18, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Check the post above yours and do not completely ignore me on my own thread or you will be gone leogets. Have a little respect please.


You're asking a lot, WJ... Leo's quite the piece of work, he's the self proclaimed James Bond of MJ cultivation.


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## PrezDickie (Nov 18, 2011)

I miss the thread that used to be about led grows.

Hey Wejuana, have u used other tents or just the lighthouse? I've heard they are good quality but I have no experience with tents. Some day when I upsize my grow I was considering those. Any other suggestions ?


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## WeJuana (Nov 18, 2011)

PrezDickie said:


> I miss the thread that used to be about led grows.
> 
> Hey Wejuana, have u used other tents or just the lighthouse? I've heard they are good quality but I have no experience with tents. Some day when I upsize my grow I was considering those. Any other suggestions ?


I have only had experience with Lighthouse Hydro tents but I SWEAR BY THEM!! I have a gate of metal sitting on the top of the tents going from tent to tent so I can hang lights in between. 2 nights ago I noticed one of gates was tilting, and upon walking in the tent, I saw it snapped the plastic corner piece holding the metal poles together in the tent. The tent was so strong the mylar and stitching held up the tent and was supporting the weight of the inline fan and the Spectra light as well. I replaced the corner and put some cardboard on the tent so there wasnt an immense amount of pressure on one spot so the piece wont break again.

I will take pix of what I am talking about tomorrow because I lent my cam out for the night.


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## hoss12781 (Nov 18, 2011)

unfortunately if you run a quick thread search on led lighting it's basically impossible to find a civil discourse on this bb, 90% of the time we wind up with pages & pages of ad homenim attacks. 

Keep us informed & keep posting your results man. This is one of the best comparison threads I've read Wejuana.


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## tenthirty (Nov 18, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I have only had experience with Lighthouse Hydro tents but I SWEAR BY THEM!! I have a gate of metal sitting on the top of the tents going from tent to tent so I can hang lights in between. 2 nights ago I noticed one of gates was tilting, and upon walking in the tent, I saw it snapped the plastic corner piece holding the metal poles together in the tent. The tent was so strong the mylar and stitching held up the tent and was supporting the weight of the inline fan and the Spectra light as well. I replaced the corner and put some cardboard on the tent so there wasnt an immense amount of pressure on one spot so the piece wont break again.
> 
> I will take pix of what I am talking about tomorrow because I lent my cam out for the night.


Ouch, Ebay has the plastic corners. Ask me how I know.
What happens is the metal rod bows and causes stress at an improper angle. What I do is get some ridged steel tubing (electrical conduit) at home depot and double up the upper circumference of the tent to keep the metal rods from bowing.


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## albsure (Nov 19, 2011)

On an entirely different topic, how are the lights doing WeJuana? What are your impressions at this stage of the grow?


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## WeJuana (Nov 19, 2011)

albsure said:


> On an entirely different topic, how are the lights doing WeJuana? What are your impressions at this stage of the grow?


They are doing as good as I could have hoped, especially with the nute problems. Buds are still growing and getting frostier by the day. Ill post update pix soon


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## WeJuana (Nov 19, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Did you just threaten him to stop threatening you?


I am Cornholio.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 19, 2011)

Are you going to use HPS again in the near futur or you are completely sold on LEDs? Are you going to put more lights after this experiment or just keep the 1 light per tent? looking forward to see the next batch of pics!


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## WeJuana (Nov 19, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> Are you going to use HPS again in the near futur or you are completely sold on LEDs? Are you going to put more lights after this experiment or just keep the 1 light per tent? looking forward to see the next batch of pics!


No set plans. It really all depends on the results of the testing. This experiment will last me a while since I would like to do a few more runs with these lights and possibly try out some other brands of LED as well.

Once the experimenting is over, I might not even keep the tents and just go back to a hydro set up. But I may decide to run some testing with LEDs vs HPS/MH/T5 while im still doing soil.. its all up in the air at this point.


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## WeJuana (Nov 19, 2011)

I found a pack of CLFs laying around so I added 4 - 23w CFL's to the veg section of the garden.. $34 in clamp lamp cords later lol. 

[video=youtube;J9ohzTuJe1M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ohzTuJe1M[/video]
watch in 1080p if you can!


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## FMCCNate (Nov 20, 2011)

Can we see pics of the whole plant again ??


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## WeJuana (Nov 20, 2011)

@FMCC - I'll get full plant shots when the lights kick on.


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## FMCCNate (Nov 20, 2011)

Wejuana: lookin forward to some full plant pics


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## WeJuana (Nov 20, 2011)

14 to go..

Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator






I was also talking about how I love my tent because the fabric and stitching held up against a bare pole poking it with approx 60-80 lbs on it (because my ghetto metal gate lighting rig broke the plastic corner joint of the tent).





I put some cardboard between the gate and the tent to more evenly disperse the weight.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 20, 2011)

If I was to buy a light based only on this LED TEST, I would definitely buy a Blackstar, the blackstar plant look the most healthy and it is the cheapest light. However, I got some problem with the power cord connector on my blackstar...And for that reason I would recommend doing more research if you are about to buy a Blackstar to make sure the problem I am having isnt too common.. would they pay for shipping if I was to get that checked? I just don't want to send the light away and not having it at all for the one crop I will do this year... it still works it's just everytime I touch the cord near the unit the light goes off... It's looking good Wej, I cant wait for harvest to see the weights!


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## WeJuana (Nov 20, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> would they pay for shipping if I was to get that checked? I just don't want to send the light away and not having it at all for the one crop I will do this year... it still works it's just everytime I touch the cord near the unit the light goes off... It's looking good Wej, I cant wait for harvest to see the weights!


If I were you I would call and let them know about the situation and see if they say they can/will do anything for you. Maybe they would send out a new power supply and let you swap it with the old one if they feel it would help or something?

I have owned 6 Blackstar lights to date and haven't had any issues like you described yet


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## Endur0xX (Nov 20, 2011)

That is what I will endup doing I guess... or just send the light when I am done for the year but it's mainly that I don't want to pay shipping again... I sure hope they would pay for it but we never know. It's a pretty bright light though and I know it can grow nice plants on it's own, but I am probably going to stick it in my grow room with the 2 400w, (I took it out of my dresser to test the FERO)


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## curly604 (Nov 20, 2011)

the spectra plant looks a little over fed and maybe the penetrator as well what the ppms runnin at bro?


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## WeJuana (Nov 21, 2011)

curly604 said:


> the spectra plant looks a little over fed and maybe the penetrator as well what the ppms runnin at bro?


I don't have a PPM meter, but the same PPM as the Blackstar tent. I use Dyna-Gro so I would not guess too high until I use Bloombastic (the last 4 weeks). Ill grab a meter when im out though so I can report in PPM because you aren't the first to ask.


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## LIVID (Nov 21, 2011)

I got my Blackstar on the 18th of Nov, and having the same problem at first, i just stuck it in reallly good, and dont touch the panel too much. Got some Vanilla Kush going hoping this light works out well.



Endur0xX said:


> If I was to buy a light based only on this LED TEST, I would definitely buy a Blackstar, the blackstar plant look the most healthy and it is the cheapest light. However, I got some problem with the power cord connector on my blackstar...And for that reason I would recommend doing more research if you are about to buy a Blackstar to make sure the problem I am having isnt too common.. would they pay for shipping if I was to get that checked? I just don't want to send the light away and not having it at all for the one crop I will do this year... it still works it's just everytime I touch the cord near the unit the light goes off... It's looking good Wej, I cant wait for harvest to see the weights!


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## Endur0xX (Nov 21, 2011)

well I guess that makes us 2 with this problem! I was thinking of putting a little toothpick or something to jam it in there really good... I won't be using the light for another week but I ll do something like that. Thanks


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 21, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> well I guess that makes us 2 with this problem! I was thinking of putting a little toothpick or something to jam it in there really good... I won't be using the light for another week but I ll do something like that. Thanks


3 of us... both mine are picky with the power cords...


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## Endur0xX (Nov 21, 2011)

lol .. I didnt have to look too far to find other users with the same problem... none of you contacted Lighthouse about this issue?


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## DoctorCanna (Nov 21, 2011)

This is my first post ever, and I want to say thanks to WeJuana for spending his time doing this for all of us who are very interested in the LED grow lights currently on the market and seeing roughly what some of these company's lights are relatively capable of. I personally own 3 blackstar 240's, 2 spectra 290's a V1 and V3, a spectra 100 watt ufo V1, and 1 180 watt advanced LED light. Out of all the lights I own the ones that consistently have had amazing plants grow well under them are first the advanced led true draw 180 watt, and secondly the V1 Spectra 290. And so I am inclined to suggest to you an investment in advanced leds grow lights because they have been working really well for me. I am also interested in the new 357 Magnum plus, which from what ive seen has grown some pretty awesome heavy plants. I Currently have 8 plants under three blackstar 240s and 1 180 watt advanced led panel and they are on day 35 of flower and are doing honestly much better than yours, not to be rude at all. Mine are hydro grown so i feel they may be further along than yours due to this. Ill attach a Pic for ya. But again thank you and keep up this great work, we appreciate your commitment.

So this first pic is a close up on a bud.

 And this is that current crop!


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## hippy132 (Nov 21, 2011)

Look in where the cord plugs into the lite, are there three posts? If so, they can be moved a very little way to tighten the connection. DO NOT BREAK IT, it justs needs about 10 RCH's distance.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 21, 2011)

I will look into it thanks


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## hoss12781 (Nov 21, 2011)

DoctorCanna said:


> This is my first post ever, and I want to say thanks to WeJuana for spending his time doing this for all of us who are very interested in the LED grow lights currently on the market and seeing roughly what some of these company's lights are relatively capable of. I personally own 3 blackstar 240's, 2 spectra 290's a V1 and V3, a spectra 100 watt ufo V1, and 1 180 watt advanced LED light. Out of all the lights I own the ones that consistently have had amazing plants grow well under them are first the advanced led true draw 180 watt, and secondly the V1 Spectra 290. And so I am inclined to suggest to you an investment in advanced leds grow lights because they have been working really well for me. I am also interested in the new 357 Magnum plus, which from what ive seen has grown some pretty awesome heavy plants. I Currently have 8 plants under three blackstar 240s and 1 180 watt advanced led panel and they are on day 35 of flower and are doing honestly much better than yours, not to be rude at all. Mine are hydro grown so i feel they may be further along than yours due to this. Ill attach a Pic for ya. But again thank you and keep up this great work, we appreciate your commitment.
> 
> So this first pic is a close up on a bud.
> 
> ...


 any bleaching? those look super close to the canopy but I can't really tell distance from the picture.


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## WeJuana (Nov 21, 2011)

Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


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## DoctorCanna (Nov 21, 2011)

hoss12781 said:


> any bleaching? those look super close to the canopy but I can't really tell distance from the picture.


Only on one top, their are two strains, 7 of the 8 plants are one strain a heavy unknown Indica probably 70/30 Indica/Sativa, whilst the other loner plant is a heavy Sativa, huge stretch giant like spider like branches with lighter bud sites. It had a little bleaching when I allowed it to grow all the way up to and touching the advanced led 180 watt light for a week or so. other than that I keep my lights within about 6" of the top canopy to allow for best penetration and my plants seem to just love it, with the largest colas developing nearest the lights. Cannabis plants under LED seem to me to grow tighter and denser than the few HID grows ive seen, I really hope I can continue to improve every crop and really get the most out of my lights.


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## 711grower (Nov 21, 2011)

wejuana a ppm/ec meter is your best friend. you are spending alot of loot go grab you one. you wont regret it.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 21, 2011)

even better, super soil


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## maxpesh (Nov 22, 2011)

I can't believe how bad the Penetrator plant is doing under such an expensive light, surely now you got all your nute problems sorted out it should be bursting at the seams ?


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## WeJuana (Nov 22, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> I can't believe how bad the Penetrator plant is doing under such an expensive light, surely now you got all your nute problems sorted out it should be bursting at the seams ?


All the plants took it pretty hard, I wouldnt judge this round by the lights. You have to take into consideration these plants had no Calcium throughout its 6 week veg or through the first 5 of flower. Yes I have been correcting the nutrients for the last week or so, but in the scheme of the whole process, that is but a small window of time. Its unfair to expect a performance from this round comparing to proper nutes. This next round should be much more conclusive as far as results that the lights produce.

Look at the Trinity Kush grow I have going.. the plant is doing awesome under the penetrator! Thats a plant with proper nutes.


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## maxpesh (Nov 22, 2011)

Yeah Wej a lot better, but still 55 inches from canopy, this time I thought you would've wanted to maximise Yield ?


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## maxpesh (Nov 22, 2011)

Does anyone know why "when I click insert image" it just ask me for a url and won't give me the option to insert from my PC ?


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## maxpesh (Nov 22, 2011)

View attachment 1900362

This is a great but simple chart for Ph ranges and nutrient uptakr for Hydro and soil. Coco should always be the same Ph levels as hydro btw


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## WeJuana (Nov 22, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Yeah Wej a lot better, but still 55 inches from canopy, this time I thought you would've wanted to maximise Yield ?


The lights are 55" from the ground, about 24" from the canopy. Next round I will lower the lights about 12 inches, so after stretch they sit about 12" away.


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## DoctorCanna (Nov 22, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> The lights are 55" from the ground, about 24" from the canopy. Next round I will lower the lights about 12 inches, so after stretch they sit about 12" away.


Thats good WeJauana, my height method for any high intensity LED is much the same to my method for determining the height for an HID. Place the LED panel pretty high above the canopy for my 300 watt spectras I start 36 inches and for my blackstars and advanced I start 18 inches and allow the plants to grow up to the lights until they finish stretching then I move the leds as close as I can to the canopy until I have a comfortable compromise between coverage and intensity, usually somewhere between 4 - 12 inches from the tops, depending on plant size, # of plants, how long they vegged, stuff like that. And I have been getting good results, I haven't yet experienced any burning or bleaching, except for plants that have grown all the way to the glass, in that case expect bleaching.

Also my plants seem to be able to take as high of a ppm level as I suppose Im willing to spend on nutes. Thus far the average ppm reading on all of my res's hovers around 1000 ppm, but i have gone as high as 1300 ppm and as low as 650 ppm, and you can definitely tell the difference. For all of you using LED's keep your res around 1000 ppm's and your plants should show excellent growth. Ive also noticed tat my plants simply run through water, I usually have to add 1 to 1.5 gallons of water to each res every day/every other to keep them at the level they are supposed to be. My pH seems to always be somewhere between 5.2 and 6.6, with an average of 6.5. Using Fox Farm Tiger Bloom, GH Cal/Mag, AN Cha-Ching during last 4 weeks of flowering, and AN Bud Blood and Big Bud appropriately, and a small dose of H2O2 every week to keep my res's clean. My plants smell like straight candy, very fruity and very aromatic.

Keep up the good work, but please get your nutes right and your light distance and show us what these lights can do  Very exciting, I like your new journal! Sorry for my long post, I ramble!


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## hippy132 (Nov 22, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> View attachment 1900362
> 
> This is a great but simple chart for Ph ranges and nutrient uptakr for Hydro and soil. Coco should always be the same Ph levels as hydro btw


 It will kill you, my first grow with 2 glh 180's and a 290 - I ph'd at 6.5 and wondered why I had issues and stunted growth, SUn #4 , should have been 6.0 --- I was sure it was the lites. Tossed them with 3 weeks left, now proper ph and using FFOF and straight water with little kelp in 3 gallon pots, doing better ... PH and NOT overwatering are indoor plants most worry IMO, so far...


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## WeJuana (Nov 22, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> It will kill you, my first grow with 2 glh 180's and a 290 - I ph'd at 6.5 and wondered why I had issues and stunted growth, SUn #4 , should have been 6.0 --- I was sure it was the lites. Tossed them with 3 weeks left, now proper ph and using FFOF and straight water with little kelp in 3 gallon pots, doing better ... PH and NOT overwatering are indoor plants most worry IMO, so far...


I've been ph'ing constant at 6.5l and I am starting to believe thats causing problems as well. From now on I am going to rotate PH between 6.0 and 7.0 and keep it dynamic to get different ranges of uptake.


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## puffenuff (Nov 22, 2011)

Yo wejuana, have you thought about trying coco? Easy, clean, quick to correct nutrient problems, and it will dry out faster than soil which is important to stay on a consistent feeding schedule since there isnt a lot of heat generated by leds to dry it up at a fast rate.


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## hippy132 (Nov 22, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I've been ph'ing constant at 6.5l and I am starting to believe thats causing problems as well. From now on I am going to rotate PH between 6.0 and 7.0 and keep it dynamic to get different ranges of uptake.


 going from 6.5 to 6.0 is a 50 times diff to the plant is my understanding so find the right one and stick with it as long as its in the limits shown. My big fu was not ph'ing the initial move from 4 inch pots to 3 gallon pots, and wetting down with to much water. Indoor needs are much diff, I am learning. If you are using Sunshine try 6.0.


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## WeJuana (Nov 22, 2011)

I watered with 7.0 ro water tonight and all the plants seem to be happy. I think next watering I will shoot for 6.2-6.3 range and keep the ph changing constantly to uptake all the different nutes. 
When I grow hydro I usually let my res flux from 5.5-6.5 and I rarely encounter any problems.


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## WeJuana (Nov 22, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Yo wejuana, have you thought about trying coco? Easy, clean, quick to correct nutrient problems, and it will dry out faster than soil which is important to stay on a consistent feeding schedule since there isnt a lot of heat generated by leds to dry it up at a fast rate.


I came from using coco.. may be something I consider going back too. I have a pot with a Power Africa clone which i mixed 60% FFOF to 40% STG Hail, and its actually doing really well. I may consider switching to something like this pending the results.


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## maxpesh (Nov 23, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I came from using coco.. may be something I consider going back too. I have a pot with a Power Africa clone which i mixed 60% FFOF to 40% STG Hail, and its actually doing really well. I may consider switching to something like this pending the results.


I use nothing else but coco now always at 5.8ph but once a week water at 5.5 ph just to make sure plant gets a good dose of Mn. Coco is brilliant and don't think I would use anything else now as it's so easy to adjust and flush etc. Put a teaspoon of GH mineral magic in every ten days and you get the taste of MJ grown in soil but the growth rates of hydro


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## WeJuana (Nov 23, 2011)

The plants aren't looking all too hot with the nute problems, so I figured maybe sexy music would maybe make up for it.

[video=youtube;nRrp_NvMY2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRrp_NvMY2M[/video]


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## leogets (Nov 23, 2011)

painful to watch a half decent strain being murdered i bet they go fully brown an dry up before they are done

music is as terrible as the grow 

forget grow offs and show casing led you need to go back to the drawing board and learn the basics


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## randomseed (Nov 23, 2011)

leogets said:


> painful to watch a half decent strain being murdered i bet they go fully brown an dry up before they are done
> 
> music is as terrible as the grow
> 
> forget grow offs and show casing led you need to go back to the drawing board and learn the basics


 
Seriously, this is a failed grow. 100% fail.


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## WeJuana (Nov 23, 2011)

It was a nice welcome back to soil and a reminder of why I prefer hydro, but an even better reminder of why to check your nute regiment for essentials.


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## davoswavos (Nov 23, 2011)

leo you go around and troll on every led thread get a life nobody cares what you think.


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## WeJuana (Nov 23, 2011)

leogets said:


> painful to watch a half decent strain being murdered i bet they go fully brown an dry up before they are done
> 
> music is as terrible as the grow
> 
> forget grow offs and show casing led you need to go back to the drawing board and learn the basics


Ill pay more attention to your criticism the second you actually post a grow. All you seem to do is comment on threads and have nothing to show except how your fingers type.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 23, 2011)

Leo claims to be the inventor of 707 headband... ROFL!


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## leogets (Nov 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Leo claims to be the inventor of 707 headband... ROFL!


im the master breeder of alot of cali's finest , as my family was columbias finest

my headband doesnt compare to my fathers panama red in stature not now not ever


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## fartman (Nov 23, 2011)

leogets said:


> im the master breeder of alot of cali's finest , as my family was columbias finest
> 
> my headband doesnt compare to my fathers panama red in stature not now not ever


 hahahaha ha


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## puffenuff (Nov 23, 2011)

Damn, this leo guy is a straight up dick! Wejuana, even with the troubles youve experienced, this round is in no way a failure: you will have some dank here soon and most importantly it has been a learning experience for you. In some senses, it's been a success since you found out what works and what doesnt. Kinda more like a practice round or a warm up lap.


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## kush groove (Nov 23, 2011)

wejuana, sucks to see what happened to your plants..this was also my first grow in soil after a couple successful hydro grows and i had the same problems as you......i was losing a shit load of fan leaves on 3 of the 6 plants and the were all the larger plants....i assumed it was a ph issue because i hadnt been checking the ph all the way through veg and through the first 3 weeks of flowering.....after flushing my the 3 big girls they soon recovered and turned back green, but two weeks later began yellowing again.....i had been checking ph so i knew it wasnt a ph issue but a nutrient deficiency......i have now learned to feed nitrogen all the way through following and the plants seem to do much better.....bat guano, compost, liquid seaweed and molasses is i used and my bud turned out great...waaay better than anything ive ever accomplished in hydro.......at the end of the day i think i prefer soil over hydro based off of cost and simplicity......but anyways better luck next time


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## mohawke (Nov 23, 2011)

Leogets, where the fuck are grows? I try not to reply to tossers on the forums, but you mate, are something else. I tell ya, some of the pricks on here...

But carry on spouting shit on these forums, if anything your posts are just funny to read. Idiot.


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## mohawke (Nov 23, 2011)

Wejuana, respect to you man, the grow might not be doing so great, but kudos to you for giving the time and effort to document your grow and post on this forum


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## FMCCNate (Nov 23, 2011)

Keep your head up wejuana, your still showig a great comparison. I have faith in you and the lights your using. Can't wait to see te next round. I think that considering your troubles the buds are still fattening up.


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## maxpesh (Nov 23, 2011)

Revenge as they say is "a dish best served cold". This Leogets person is gonna have his teenage virgin mouth shut soon enough, and I'm gonna BE the ONE to do it, I very rarely get upset but when stupid little pricks come on here bad mouthing a decent person who is only trying to help others, it tends to make my blood boil, but as I say I'll shut his mouth up soon enough (and all the other haters). But only with PROOF ! Dick head ! P.S. Where are YOUR grows and proof ?


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 23, 2011)

Leogets is a fucking weed poseur.


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## leogets (Nov 23, 2011)

mohawke said:


> Leogets, where the fuck are grows? I try not to reply to tossers on the forums, but you mate, are something else. I tell ya, some of the pricks on here...
> 
> But carry on spouting shit on these forums, if anything your posts are just funny to read. Idiot.


id be mad if i wasnt me as well comeback when you graduate from you pc case nobody


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## maxpesh (Nov 23, 2011)

leogets said:


> id be mad if i wasnt me as well comeback when you graduate from you pc case nobody


English please ?

Just go away, you have no friends on here, probably a mirror image of your real life away from your computer screen. Go and meet a girl in a bar or something and ask her to pop your cherry, but only if you are old enough !


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## maxpesh (Nov 23, 2011)

Yes Leo. This is what I grow all day every day !


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## maxpesh (Nov 23, 2011)

Leo ! Just stop having a go, now do you see how words can be hurtful to another human being, I could go on and on being a nasty person but it is just not in my nature and it is just not clever. It's so much easier and more rewarding to offer words of kindness than to be cruel. I hope you understand.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 23, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I've been ph'ing constant at 6.5l and I am starting to believe thats causing problems as well. From now on I am going to rotate PH between 6.0 and 7.0 and keep it dynamic to get different ranges of uptake.


you thought of supersoil next time Wej>? mine is not the same than subcool's but similar... anyway, I did not look at my PH since I started my grow, ... most people using this soil technique do not seem to worry about their PH ever! Very easy going and from what I have seen, people are getting great results! so far I like it with the LEDs too because the soil is drying slower I don't feel like my plants are missing out on nutes from watering them only once a week.


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## WeJuana (Nov 23, 2011)

Does anyone have experience with both Bloombastic and Shooing Powder? Whats the preference?

The nice hydro store lady just gave me a sample of Shooting Powder and was raving about it.


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## maxpesh (Nov 24, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Does anyone have experience with both Bloombastic and Shooing Powder? Whats the preference?
> 
> The nice hydro store lady just gave me a sample of Shooting Powder and was raving about it.


Yes everything from house and garden is amazing stuff, and this is no exception (shooting powder) but do not use it with any other sort of bloom accelerators. use it during last 2 weeks of flowering and each sachet is enough to make 100 litres. Just a pity nobody sells it where I live now


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## WeJuana (Nov 24, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> you thought of supersoil next time Wej>? mine is not the same than subcool's but similar... anyway, I did not look at my PH since I started my grow, ... most people using this soil technique do not seem to worry about their PH ever! Very easy going and from what I have seen, people are getting great results! so far I like it with the LEDs too because the soil is drying slower I don't feel like my plants are missing out on nutes from watering them only once a week.


I think I am going to try and stick with FFOF and get that down pat instead of switching it up. After this I am pretty damn sure I am going back to hydro haha.


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Nov 24, 2011)

Shame about your girls........oh well this was always just going to be an appetizer anyway.
next round is going to be very interesting......Long time dirt farmer here and even I can't ignore the benefits of coco.....
Be safe and happy growing ...........oh yeah Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Turkey/beer/weed/football/no work/====heaven...


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## Endur0xX (Nov 24, 2011)

hehe I love the supersoil so far, I must say there is nothing like hydro for fast growth... since I only grow for myself, I prefer to become my patience and grow weed the natural way!! Also, I keep hearing that weed taste much better in soil, I am looking forward to smoke my own organic weed because I think I usually smoke commercial hydroponic ... very potent but who knows what they put in it! (whatever works for pest\mold or other problems...) 

you got that link again for your other journal? thanks


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## maxpesh (Nov 24, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Shame about your girls........oh well this was always just going to be an appetizer anyway.
> next round is going to be very interesting......Long time dirt farmer here and even I can't ignore the benefits of coco.....
> Be safe and happy growing ...........oh yeah Happy Thanksgiving!!!
> Turkey/beer/weed/football/no work/====heaven...


Yeah, Coco is the dogs bollocks, all the benefits of hydro for fast growth and yield but with added benefit of organic growing in soil for taste and potency. So fast to adjust ph and nutes you will be blown away with your results my friend


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## FMCCNate (Nov 24, 2011)

Can't wait till my card gets here, I will be using coco and a mix o LEDs and hps


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## PSUAGRO. (Nov 24, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Yeah, Coco is the dogs bollocks, all the benefits of hydro for fast growth and yield but with added benefit of organic growing in soil for taste and potency. So fast to adjust ph and nutes you will be blown away with your results my friend


Hit the nail on the head my friend.......Quick nute and ph adjustment are the big reasons for the switch

hey we can have are cake and eat it too....


----------



## leogets (Nov 24, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Does anyone have experience with both Bloombastic and Shooing Powder? Whats the preference?
> 
> The nice hydro store lady just gave me a sample of Shooting Powder and was raving about it.


shooting powder for hydro

bloom final for organic


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## WeJuana (Nov 25, 2011)

Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


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## cannabuilding (Nov 25, 2011)

leogets your a troll, that has nothing better to do then troll. Also you can use shooting powder in soil, works very well, sleezy1 used it in all his grows and got amazing results with 2x500watt blackstars

here is a the post were sleezy mentions the dosage he used, and its working well on my end so far https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/483980-2-500-watt-blackstar-led.html#post6580792

Wejuana, its still a fair grow not the best, but hopefully there would be some end result. 

Peace man


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## WeJuana (Nov 25, 2011)

cannabuilding said:


> Wejuana, its still a fair grow not the best, but hopefully there would be some end result.
> 
> Peace man


Yeah I'll definitely still be posting the results of the first round. Its 11 days and counting til chop time!


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## JackBeNimble (Nov 25, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Yeah I'll definitely still be posting the results of the first round. Its 11 days and counting til chop time!


Good show mate, I'll be more interested in the results of next rounds go! This round, well, you know whats up. The plants have had a rough time to say the least and to judge any of the lights on this round imo would be unfair. Hope you dont mind but here's the link to my grow using 4 of the 168x's in a grow lab 120. I'm on day 40 of bloom here when this vid was shot
[video=youtube;gE9Mhbb91ys]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE9Mhbb91ys[/video]


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## WeJuana (Nov 25, 2011)

JackBeNimble said:


> Good show mate, I'll be more interested in the results of next rounds go! This round, well, you know whats up. The plants have had a rough time to say the least and to judge any of the lights on this round imo would be unfair. Hope you dont mind but here's the link to my grow using 4 of the 168x's in a grow lab 120. I'm on day 40 of bloom here when this vid was shot
> [video=youtube;gE9Mhbb91ys]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE9Mhbb91ys[/video]


 Nice! What strain?


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## JackBeNimble (Nov 25, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Nice! What strain?


It's a mixed run of Chernobyl, Deadhead OG, Agent Orange, XJ-13, Jilly Bean, CheeseQuake, Blue Dream, Soma's A+ and XXX.


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## WeJuana (Nov 25, 2011)

Right on! Looks like it will be a good harvest. I have another plant with proper nutes going in the Penetrator tent on day 32 doing much better > https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/486631-trinity-kush-penetrator-336x-2.html


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## FMCCNate (Nov 25, 2011)

Wow leogits said something slightly productive instead of bashing someone. Maybe he has turned a new leaf in his life haha


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## FMCCNate (Nov 25, 2011)

Can't wait to find out the harvest you Get. Come on 11 days


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## foreverflyhi (Nov 26, 2011)

OK so i just read your whole thread wejuana (after many joints, bowls, beers, and naps) and i gotta say GREAT JOB! i would of started all over and corrected the nute problem before it even starts, but you held on and for that i give you mad props!
also i would like to add that too all those FOOLS AND KIDS talking ish, let them be, we where all once kids and we acted like fools lol, experience will teach them how too act. TODAYS NOOB GROWER IS TOMMOROWS JEDI GROWER.
now back to the thread, i have some questions/comments.
first, Im currently running pure leds and soo far im realizing that led grows require diffrent nutes, or let me reword that, led grows require more attention, i remember someone mentioning something about mag and cal being used less or more in led grows? anyone have anything too add to that? reguarding nutes intake with pure led grows?
and also i was under the assumption that when i bought these leds i wouldnt have much of a heat problem and therefor lower my cooling cost and helping reduced the foot print on globalwarming, but this doesnt seem to be the case, i have a 5X5X8 with two blackstar 240 and one prototype penetrator 360 genertaion x as well as one 90 watt ufo flying around in there, and my heat is close to 94 when my tent is sealed, i know how to correct this but just a little dissapointed in the fact that im putting off a lot of heat there by making me have to resort to having to pay for cooling energy, any simple "GREEN" ways of lowering the heat with out using up a lot of energy? thanks
stay up wejuana!!!!! =)
heres a couple pics of my personal current led op and a pic of my previous led/hps grow


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## WeJuana (Nov 26, 2011)

foreverflyhi said:


> OK so i just read your whole thread wejuana (after many joints, bowls, beers, and naps) and i gotta say GREAT JOB! i would of started all over and corrected the nute problem before it even starts, but you held on and for that i give you mad props!
> also i would like to add that too all those FOOLS AND KIDS talking ish, let them be, we where all once kids and we acted like fools lol, experience will teach them how too act. TODAYS NOOB GROWER IS TOMMOROWS JEDI GROWER.
> now back to the thread, i have some questions/comments.
> first, Im currently running pure leds and soo far im realizing that led grows require diffrent nutes, or let me reword that, led grows require more attention, i remember someone mentioning something about mag and cal being used less or more in led grows? anyone have anything too add to that? reguarding nutes intake with pure led grows?
> ...


Damn.. you read the whole thing!?! I don't even think I read the whole thing! haha jp.

What type of ventilation do you have for your tents? And what is the outside tent room temp? I was able to pull off a few grows with next to no ventilation (besides oscillating fans) and kept the temp at a max of 87 when the lights were on, and the crops turned out surprisingly bombay. I do think that the Penetrator 336X (1w) that im using putts off a fair amount of heat, and possibly the most out of the 3 lights (the Blackstar 900w in the mother tent is damn warm). 

I've been using cal-mag for the last few weeks (@4ml/gal) and stuff seems to be going good.

Sick setup. Post a link up and ill sub u.


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## WeJuana (Nov 27, 2011)

Day 47.. 9 and counting til crop chop.

Spectra












Blackstar












Penetrator












LA Con's Round 2 (2 Spectra 150w's/1 Blackstar 240w HO/ 100w CFL's 5k)












Power Africa (Blackstar) Power Africa 500w Blackstar






Trinity Kush (Penetrator) Trinity Kush 336x Penetrator


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## foreverflyhi (Nov 27, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Damn.. you read the whole thing!?! I don't even think I read the whole thing! haha jp..


 well truthfully i just read the intersting stuff, i skimmed thru alll the shit talking. or pretty much anything captian crunch, leo and some other kids said.... HA


WeJuana said:


> What type of ventilation do you have for your tents?


I have two clip on fans and one larger circulating fan running 24/7


WeJuana said:


> And what is the outside tent room temp?


latlely here in good O San diego (southern cali) has been pretty warm about 80ish during the day and pretty cool at night around 60ish..


WeJuana said:


> I was able to pull off a few grows with next to no ventilation (besides oscillating fans) and kept the temp at a max of 87 when the lights were on, and the crops turned out surprisingly bombay.


 with pure LED? impressive!!!!!!!! with a tent? closed?


WeJuana said:


> I do think that the Penetrator 336X (1w) that im using putts off a fair amount of heat


 , Hmmmmmmmmm


WeJuana said:


> and possibly the most out of the 3 lights (the Blackstar 900w in the mother tent is damn warm).


 double HMMMMMMMMM
so i just happen to be running some of the hottest LEDS right now...? i was thinking of just simply adding more clip ons and figuring out how to direct the heat out, maybe point them right on top of the led and a little below to direct the heat out... and just simply adjusting my lights to be on during the cooler parts of the day. on at 5 P.M(where the sun cools down)-off at 11 A.M (before the sun goes up) supposebly the energy is cheaper at night?



WeJuana said:


> I've been using cal-mag for the last few weeks (@4ml/gal) and stuff seems to be going good.


nice i will do. also every sence ive been running LEDS, ive been on this organic phase that doesnt seem to be going away!, my production is slighty lower due to incorrect amount of raw organics and organic teas and blah blah blah, but the pay out is tottally worth it! im a true believer that LED and organics is the way to go! im growing some of the best organic herbs HANDS DOWN! i wouldnt be suprised if all the future cannabis cups winners will be LED/ORGANIC GROWs. LED IS LIKE A ORGANIC LIGHT not just because it uses less energy but because it gives out light spectrums that plants flurish in(sustainable?), while HPS JUST THROWS OUT UNUSED SPECTRUMS (Unsustainable!)


WeJuana said:


> Sick setup. Post a link up and ill sub u


You and a couple other LED growers inspired me to give it a try, i just really dont know how too start!??


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## maxpesh (Nov 27, 2011)

Penetrator got some great crystal production


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## Endur0xX (Nov 27, 2011)

94 is way hot!! why don't you try filling your tent with homemade co2? I have the same problem. .. 
I thought LEDs were heat free too, and even running only one of them in 16cu.ft. is a problem ... the facts that LEDs don't need venting is not true... not for closet setup anyway...


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## jubiare (Nov 27, 2011)

my experience is that I had to add cfl's for cold temperature problems! Now temps (with two 45w cfl's) are 72ish but only at plants height. (2011 357Magnum)


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## TokinDaily (Nov 27, 2011)

Whew... I just read all 99 pages of this... Just to decide whether or not to get a blackstar, but I'm looking at the 240, for a 2x3x5 or similar size. Thanks for all the info. LED is for me!


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## jubiare (Nov 27, 2011)

TokinDaily said:


> Whew... I just read all 99 pages of this... Just to decide whether or not to get a blackstar, but I'm looking at the 240, for a 2x3x5 or similar size. Thanks for all the info. LED is for me!


 Confined spaces work very well with leds, you can see the best journals around are about confined spaces. If I was you I'd look at a 150w or slightly more actual draw panel.. you should do very well in that space. Good luck with your hunt


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## davoswavos (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm using a bs500 in 2x3 and it is just about right I would go with 2 240's though if had it to do again.


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## WeJuana (Nov 27, 2011)

@forever - the tent was left cracked during lights on to get sufficient ventilation.


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## WeJuana (Nov 27, 2011)

After detailing the crops with a 20x jewlers loupe, I have concluded trichs are 5-10% amber and will I will be chopping in the next 2-4 days. 

Heavy RO water from here on out. Drying and trimming will commence in my new "office" aka tent #5 (another 4x4 Lighthouse hydro tent) complete with trimming table/ bud gate, 2 bins (1 for good trim one for fan leaves), CFLs (which should make for good pix).






I think I am going to christen it with a bowl right now. I'm so excited I just cant hide it lol.


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## Endur0xX (Nov 27, 2011)

already harvesting!? nice job it went by fast!


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## WeJuana (Nov 28, 2011)

Harvest was supposed to be on 12/8 but its getting moved up to around the 1st and making room for the newness thats coming in!


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## Endur0xX (Nov 28, 2011)

really you are not going to finish em up!!? all this time and effort!?


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## WeJuana (Nov 28, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> really you are not going to finish em up!!? all this time and effort!?


I consider "finishing em up" harvesting when the crop is prime. LA ambers quick and I like to chop around 15-20% amber.. so I will be watching and will chop when they are ready. 
Anyone going strictly by time and not watching the trichs are not "finishing em up" correctly in my opinion.


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## foreverflyhi (Nov 28, 2011)

word up! the ladies will tell you when they are ready, never rush them, same goes with growing marujuana


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## PrezDickie (Nov 28, 2011)

dying to know final bud weights... Thanks again for the grow and i'll keep an eye on your new stuff


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## WeJuana (Nov 28, 2011)

Round 2 of LA Cons are hit the flower tents last night, making today day 1 of 12-12. I also threw in some other randoms which I will post periodic pics of.

Day 48 on Round 1 of LA's


*Lights were all dropped do 50" from the floor.


The Spectra tent has been switched up to 2 Spectra 150's.*

Spectra Tent






LA Cons Round 2 - Day 1
#1





#2






Also in the Spectra tent:

Purple Power - Day 1






Qrazy Train - Day 1







Blackstar Tent






La Cons Round 2 - Day 1






Also in the Blackstar tent:

Power Africa - Day 35







Penetrator Tent






LA Cons Round 2 - Day 1
#1





#2






Also in the Penetrator tent:

Trinity Kush - Day 35


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## WeJuana (Nov 29, 2011)

I also wanted to note that Round 2 of LA Cons are coming in between 20-21" tall today, I'll measure again in 2 weeks so we will see how much they reached for the sky during stretch.


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## puffenuff (Nov 29, 2011)

Round 2 is looking much better! Nice job so far!


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## Psytranceorgy (Nov 29, 2011)

Round 2! Great stuff, nice job fixing your problems WeJuana, keep up the good work and GOOD LUCK!


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## PSUAGRO. (Nov 29, 2011)

Like everyone is saying...round two looks allot better.....good job 

Is it me or is the penetrator tent "shockingly" bright to anyone else??


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## WeJuana (Nov 29, 2011)

@puffenuff - Thank you much man!
@Psytranceorgy - Thanks! I'm pretty sure the combo of not having calcium and keeping a constant PH (at 6.5) was my problem. The Trinity and Power Africa have been my testers to make sure I got the nutes right, and so far so good (day 36)
@PSUAGRO - Thank you. The Penetrator tent seems to definitely have the best footprint due to overall size, so the light is just as intense across the entire 4x4. Now that the lights are all lowered, the Blackstar is a little more focused in the center, and the 2 Spectra 150s are able to keep a pretty even cover across the 4x4 area.


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## WeJuana (Nov 30, 2011)

The verdict is in.. chopping later today.


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## WeJuana (Dec 1, 2011)

Ill take some video soon. 

Scissor Hash


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## FMCCNate (Dec 1, 2011)

More pics!! Haha


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## WeJuana (Dec 1, 2011)

FMCCNate said:


> More pics!! Haha


Ill have some pix up in the next day or so, I want to give them their 48 hours of deserved rest in the darkness.

I threw some little popcorn nuggets in a paper bag over night (.4 from each tent) so I could have a test bowl this AM, and let me just say it went down surprisingly smooth, especially for only having 12 hours drying, and i'm stoned (smoked Penetrator tent nugs).


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## puffenuff (Dec 1, 2011)

Scissor hash looks delicious


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## WeJuana (Dec 1, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Scissor hash looks delicious


It is! It's exactly what I needed after the trimming. It took 4 hours to do trim the 3 bushes.


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## PSUAGRO. (Dec 1, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> It is! It's exactly what I needed after the trimming. It took 4 hours to do trim the 3 bushes.


Ha wait till your next harvest......


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## WeJuana (Dec 1, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Ha wait till your next harvest......


lol not my next harvest, but my next next harvest. My next harvest is in 17 days (Trinity Kush & Power Africa). The next round of LA Cons will b 6 Bushes PLUS the Purple Power and Qrazy Train, so 8 bushes in total.


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## PSUAGRO. (Dec 1, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> lol not my next harvest, but my next next harvest. My next harvest is in 17 days (Trinity Kush & Power Africa). The next round of LA Cons will b 6 Bushes PLUS the Purple Power and Qrazy Train, so 8 bushes in total.


17 days huh.......well i rescheduled my bar shifts and will help you trim them up...........oh and if "anything" is missing, well you know who to blame.....


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## davoswavos (Dec 2, 2011)

White wido x big bud day 60 12/12 under blackstar 500


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## cannabuilding (Dec 4, 2011)

Congrats on the harvest Wejuana, better than nothing man, atleast you have some nice smokeable bud.

keep up the good work, Peace.


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## WeJuana (Dec 4, 2011)

Dry weight is in!













Blackstar - 51.50 grams (1.84 0z)






Spectra - 46.17 grams (1.65 0z)






Penetrator - 57.20 grams (2.04 0z)






That puts the total yield at 5.53 0z between the 3 plants, each with their own severe deficiency. Round 2 should produce more accurate results as to what the lights actual capabilities are.

I'll report final yield and get good pictures after a week of curing.


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## PrezDickie (Dec 5, 2011)

thanks for keeping up to date, i think round two will show for sure but considering the issues along the way its still a nice lil harvest, i'll be curious to hear if there are distinct differences between the buds as far as smell taste or potency


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## puffenuff (Dec 5, 2011)

Wow, I guess I was expecting more. lets hope it can all be attributed to the nutrient issues you ran into. I get two ounces per plant easy on a 180w panel so I would expect a 300w led to do better. I'm sure you'll start smashing em out the park with the next few harvests! Goodluck!

Also, don't remember seeing any top colas or fat nugs? What was the biggest nug in this harvest and which light was it under?


----------



## hippy132 (Dec 5, 2011)

what version glh 180 are you using?


----------



## puffenuff (Dec 5, 2011)

hippy132 said:


> what version glh 180 are you using?


mine isnt from glh. It's the 180 extreme flower from advanced.


----------



## supchaka (Dec 5, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> mine isnt from glh. It's the 180 extreme flower from advanced.


 So how many plants are you able to grow with one 180?


----------



## WeJuana (Dec 5, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Wow, I guess I was expecting more. lets hope it can all be attributed to the nutrient issues you ran into. I get two ounces per plant easy on a 180w panel so I would expect a 300w led to do better. I'm sure you'll start smashing em out the park with the next few harvests! Goodluck!
> 
> Also, don't remember seeing any top colas or fat nugs? What was the biggest nug in this harvest and which light was it under?


Were you expecting more before I ran into the nute issues, or even during? I forget who, but a user asked me to guesstimate the yield of the plants before harvested, and I guessed about a 2 oz average (which was a little off but pretty close). If you research Calcium deficiency, one of the main causes is small yields, so in my opinion, with the severity of the deficiencies (and for the length of time which was all of veg and 5 of the 8 weeks in flower) the yield isnt too bad. Also remember the lights were quite a bit higher than the average LED user would usually keep them.

I'm thinking we will see better results this second round.

Our of curiousity, what strain were you growing when you were pulling 2 oz a plant and how many plants did you have under a 180w?


----------



## puffenuff (Dec 5, 2011)

supchaka said:


> So how many plants are you able to grow with one 180?





WeJuana said:


> Were you expecting more before I ran into the nute issues, or even during? I forget who, but a user asked me to guesstimate the yield of the plants before harvested, and I guessed about a 2 oz average (which was a little off but pretty close). If you research Calcium deficiency, one of the main causes is small yields, so in my opinion, with the severity of the deficiencies (and for the length of time which was all of veg and 5 of the 8 weeks in flower) the yield isnt too bad. Also remember the lights were quite a bit higher than the average LED user would usually keep them.
> 
> I'm thinking we will see better results this second round.
> 
> Our of curiousity, what strain were you growing when you were pulling 2 oz a plant and how many plants did you have under a 180w?


I was expecting these panels would hit the 2 oz per plant mark before you ran into issues. I totally suspect the deficiencies were the main culprits here so I wouldn't be worrying about the lights being bad. I honestly wasnt sure what kind of yield you were going to get after that went down, but your results are still good. Lowering the lights will likely help too. I'm sure your next round will be on par with my expectations for these lights.

The last strain I did 2 oz per with was snow dream (journaled here in riu), it's a cross of snow white x blue dream. I usually do 2 plants under the 180, anymore and I have to do smaller plants or my yields decrease. Two seems to be the right number, I veg for a week or two til clones are about 20 inches tall then flip.


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## WeJuana (Dec 5, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I was expecting these panels would hit the 2 oz per plant mark before you ran into issues. I totally suspect the deficiencies were the main culprits here so I wouldn't be worrying about the lights being bad. I honestly wasnt sure what kind of yield you were going to get after that went down, but your results are still good. Lowering the lights will likely help too. I'm sure your next round will be on par with my expectations for these lights.
> 
> The last strain I did 2 oz per with was snow dream (journaled here in riu), it's a cross of snow white x blue dream. I usually do 2 plants under the 180, anymore and I have to do smaller plants or my yields decrease. Two seems to be the right number, I veg for a week or two til clones are about 20 inches tall then flip.



Nice! Ya, I am excited to see how round 2 differs with the correcting of nutes and a few new factors that changed:

Instead of 3 gallon plastic pots, round 2 is in 5 gal smart pots. 
Lights are now 50" from floor instead of 55"

Today is day 7 of round 2.. I'll get some pics up shortly!


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## johny1212 (Dec 5, 2011)

Subbed! Looking forward to round 2!


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## BlazedMonkey (Dec 5, 2011)

Dank Harvest sir Nice job 

Yah we need a grow without any hicups now


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## WeJuana (Dec 5, 2011)

Pictures of the curing harvest

















LA CONS ROUND 2:

Spectra






Blackstar 






Penetrator


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## maxpesh (Dec 6, 2011)

Well I'm 26 days here on 12/12 under 2 of the 500 blackstars. Temps are 26C, so it's just for a bit of smoke and a bit more experience under LED


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## WeJuana (Dec 6, 2011)

Right on Max!

I went to go snag a nug out of a jar.. and wham.. skunk! I think yall would be real proud of me if you had smelevision!


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## maxpesh (Dec 6, 2011)

Hey guys just made another leap forward in Led development. The theory about UV having an influence on resin production is just a theory only, and a bad one at that, I've just proved it using a child's gimmick toy, so putting UV led's in fixtures is a waste of time.


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## stak (Dec 6, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Hey guys just made another leap forward in Led development. The theory about UV having an influence on resin production is just a theory only, and a bad one at that, I've just proved it using a child's gimmick toy, so putting UV led's in fixtures is a waste of time.


is this a joke or are you being serious?


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## maxpesh (Dec 6, 2011)

stak said:


> is this a joke or are you being serious?


Sorry, but no joke ! Even all the REAL research teams will tell you that it was never proven, but here we go again with all the led companies just using advertising gimmicks to sell stuff that isn't proven and because we all have human desires to have something good that hopefully works great, we believe them. Prove it yourself if you want to see it with your own eyes. Go to any Chemist and buy those children's UV detector bracelets that the kids wear on holiday to go in the Sun. Now bear in mind that LED lights do produce more resin than traditional HPS bulbs that put out a lot of UV. Now place the bracelet in the Sun and you'll see it change colour and then place it about 12 inches away from something like a Blackstar or Penetrator or any of the LED fixtures with a couple of UV bulbs on them. You will be amazed that there is no change in the colour of the bracelet unless you put it right up to the UV bulb itself, so the plants are getting virtually NO uv at all, and yet still produce resin. So it's a waste of time


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## johny1212 (Dec 6, 2011)

Man, that la con looks delicous. I may have to get me some of that. Hope this round kicks ass!


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## Endur0xX (Dec 6, 2011)

I have a UVB reptile lamp, it's not built for the reptile to be right against the bulb... So I am pretty confident that it gives plenty of UV ray even 1.5meters away... A LOT of people on RIU are having amazing result with UVB lamp... perhaps the one used in LEDs are weaker?

I think that what your experiment shows is basically that the blackstar UVB are shitte , not that UVB are inefficient on marijuana...


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## puffenuff (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm not buying into max's theory either. uvb reptile bulbs like endur0 said have been increasing resin production. Also remember that strains native to high altitudes tend to have higher thc and resin levels and what do high altitudes have greater exposure to? Uv rays.

I'm not familiar with these bracelets or how they work but there could be a number of things at play here...it could be that the amount of uv light from the panel you tested isnt enough to cause a reaction in the bracelet...it could be that the panel you tested doesn't even have uv...it could be that those bracelets only work for uvb and uvc and your panel has uva...it could be that the bracelets only work in natural sunlight...it could be many things...i think that there still needs to be a lot more science and experimenting going into your claims, especially for someone attempting to break into the led market.


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## puffenuff (Dec 6, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I'm not buying into max's theory either. uvb reptile bulbs like endur0 said have been increasing resin production. Also remember that strains native to high altitudes tend to have higher thc and resin levels and what do high altitudes have greater exposure to? Uv rays.
> 
> I'm not familiar with these bracelets or how they work but there could be a number of things at play here...it could be that the amount of uv light from the panel you tested isnt enough to cause a reaction in the bracelet...it could be that the panel you tested doesn't even have uv...it could be that those bracelets only work for uvb and uvc and your panel has uva...it could be that the bracelets only work in natural sunlight...it could be many things...i think that there still needs to be a lot more science and experimenting going into your claims, especially for someone attempting to break into the led market.


Nugs look tasty, WeJuana, wish I had smellovision or my monitor was scratch n sniff!


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## maxpesh (Dec 6, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I'm not buying into max's theory either. uvb reptile bulbs like endur0 said have been increasing resin production. Also remember that strains native to high altitudes tend to have higher thc and resin levels and what do high altitudes have greater exposure to? Uv rays.
> 
> I'm not familiar with these bracelets or how they work but there could be a number of things at play here...it could be that the amount of uv light from the panel you tested isnt enough to cause a reaction in the bracelet...it could be that the panel you tested doesn't even have uv...it could be that those bracelets only work for uvb and uvc and your panel has uva...it could be that the bracelets only work in natural sunlight...it could be many things...i think that there still needs to be a lot more science and experimenting going into your claims, especially for someone attempting to break into the led market.


Oh trust me I was taken aback too ! I'm not asking anyone to buy into this theory, just try it for yourself. don't forget it was never proven either, it was just a theory. I think the one thing that UV is good for is mould and certain bugs, so it does have uses. But this is all about education, separating the advertising from the reality, that's all I am trying to do


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## supchaka (Dec 6, 2011)

I have one of those 100 watt reptile bulbs, those fuckers get hot, intentionally. I briefly thought about trying to put it in my cab and there's just no room as well as not wanting to deal with the extra heat.


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## johny1212 (Dec 6, 2011)

UV does produce more resin. Just check out anyone running CMH bulbs or dual arc hps/mh bulbs. Spectrum is key here not lumens. That is why LEDs are are so efficient.


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## puffenuff (Dec 6, 2011)

I think it comes down to finding out what is the appropriate amount of uv exposure.


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## organicbynature (Dec 6, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I think it comes down to finding out what is the appropriate amount of uv exposure.


CannaWizard is a great blade to ask about the particulars of UV - he has a thread here (link)


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## maxpesh (Dec 6, 2011)

johny1212 said:


> UV does produce more resin. Just check out anyone running CMH bulbs or dual arc hps/mh bulbs. Spectrum is key here not lumens. That is why LEDs are are so efficient.


I have a new Philips CMH bulb and used it for one bloom cycle, the website was supposed to be doing a grow journal, 2 of them against 1 x 1000watt hps 2 years ago and it never happened, then they suddenly started giving away an hps for every CMH bought,,I wonder why ? Anyway my 600watt Philips greenpower blew it out of the water. Yes the CMH was only 400watts but the hype about spectrum was stating that it was the next big thing, not a little fizzle. So IF, UV produces so much resin and the UV emitted from LED fixtures is so small, why do led's produce a good amount of resin anyway. Not arguing any points. I just like proof and results 

Sorry if I sound like a tech head or a pain in the arse, but here is just 1 great example of why I know most led companies have done nearly zero research and just went along with the flow . http://www.photobiology.info/Gorton.html If anyone can be bothered to read for half an hour, I promise you'll be a bit wiser than before you started reading this article  Peace all


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## organicbynature (Dec 6, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> So IF, UV produces so much resin and the UV emitted from LED fixtures is so small, why do led's produce a good amount of resin anyway. Not arguing any points. I just like proof and results


I don't have a reference on hand, but Prof from the LEDs Without LEDs thread has stated that actinics (~420nm blue light) also promote resin production - there is little blue in HPS, especially around this wavelength.

I'm not sure if that's *the* answer or if there are other factors as well, but I'll throw it out there.


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## coolj (Dec 6, 2011)

Really tell me more!, what is the cost? Im using sunshine mix4 with the recipe for success kit, I have two bubbleponics kits, I wish i didnt buy, thinking about selling on ebay. I have not really used them because they seem like the plants would be to crowed and once the plants were big water change outs would be a bitch, im thinking about the Flo & gro but i like the ease of soil but im tired of the dirt and having to dig holes in my yard to dispose of the plant waste,


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## coolj (Dec 6, 2011)

So r u saying that the CMH are bull? or do u like them ?


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## jubiare (Dec 6, 2011)

reptile bulbs are the only source of true UVA - UVB (LED UV lack the proper one, I think is the UVB).
Having said that, people are still experimenting about increase resin production.. some people swear by them though.
Others, like knna for es, says that the increase of resin production is archieved by the royal blues so there is no real need of UVA-UVB.
I'd like to hear from people with tangible experience/experiments

maxpesh understanding is, in my view spot on, about the useless UV diodes employed in LED lights; what is very much arguable is his general idea about UVA-UVB and plants (sourced by not led lights)


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## puffenuff (Dec 6, 2011)

someone should do a test between a led without uv vs. a led work uv built in.


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## johny1212 (Dec 6, 2011)

Man, don't order from hydro grow. I ordered from them and the unit was backordered (I had to call to find out after 5 days). They said 4 weeks until I have it. I cancelled and they charged me a $120 restocking fee even though it isn't in stock. Al they could do was say sorry. Those guys suck and do shitty business. Just a heads up!


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## coolj (Dec 6, 2011)

johny1212 said:


> Man, don't order from hydro grow. I ordered from them and the unit was backordered (I had to call to find out after 5 days). They said 4 weeks until I have it. I cancelled and they charged me a $120 restocking fee even though it isn't in stock. Al they could do was say sorry. Those guys suck and do shitty business. Just a heads up!


Dude Thats Jacked up, Dispute the charge to ur credit card, that may help get your loot back, Damm, Id be on a plane to hydro grow with with a few bricks in my bag and trash their store, lol but im from the hood and u dont do itchazz crap like that, mess around and get capped, lol


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## ejbarraza (Dec 7, 2011)

i would like to see a grow with UVB and without UVB to see the difference....because i have a blackstar and it definitely has definitely produced a lot of resin but i don't know what it's attributed to....the light or the genetics


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## nasar (Dec 7, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> View attachment 1916123View attachment 1916122View attachment 1916119 White wido x big bud day 60 12/12 under blackstar 500


how many plants have you got growing under the blackstar? also what grow is it hydro/soil?


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## ejbarraza (Dec 7, 2011)

it's a waterfarm....so hydro....only one plant...it's a 240 watt blackstar and i have a 100 watt UFO blackstar for side lighting...and i'm growing Nirvana's AK48


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## PSUAGRO. (Dec 7, 2011)

I've seen amazing CMH grows and its positives definitely out-way the negatives...........
Was it meant for horticulture? No but philips is coming out with their new "elite" cmh bulbs for plants and paired with "Cycloptics technologies" fixture coming in at 1.95 PPF/W @ 318 watts. The 550watt model releasing next march is pushing over 2.0 PPF/W!!!!(easily beating the king (gavita pro 1000w 400volt (@1.85 ppf/w) and all led fixtures on the market as of now IMO).
Thanks to my friends at another forum and my professors at the school for confirming this info........
Its called "all bright" and is funded by the US AG Dept. (Grant), so NO cmh bulbs aren't dead; far from it....

Anyways I still believe that leds are a viable grow lighting alternative for non-commercial use like myself........be safe WeJuana and happy growing.


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## IAmKrazy2 (Dec 7, 2011)

johny1212 said:


> Man, don't order from hydro grow. I ordered from them and the unit was backordered (I had to call to find out after 5 days). They said 4 weeks until I have it. I cancelled and they charged me a $120 restocking fee even though it isn't in stock. Al they could do was say sorry. Those guys suck and do shitty business. Just a heads up!


I personally have had nothing but great experiences with Grow LED Hydro and their customer service. Furthermore, their product works and works well. Not to dismiss you story, but my experience has been great,


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## maxpesh (Dec 8, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> I've seen amazing CMH grows and its positives definitely out-way the negatives...........
> Was it meant for horticulture? No but philips is coming out with their new "elite" cmh bulbs for plants and paired with "Cycloptics technologies" fixture coming in at 1.95 PPF/W @ 318 watts. The 550watt model releasing next march is pushing over 2.0 PPF/W!!!!(easily beating the king (gavita pro 1000w 400volt (@1.85 ppf/w) and all led fixtures on the market as of now IMO).
> Thanks to my friends at another forum and my professors at the school for confirming this info........
> Its called "all bright" and is funded by the US AG Dept. (Grant), so NO cmh bulbs aren't dead; far from it....
> ...


Just saying that my Philips greenpower was by far the best yield/quality that I had compared to all other HID's. I hope that LED's are good for more than just personal grows though. I hope that we are looking for alternative to HID for all grows including commercial, otherwise, what's the point ? Tell you what though, I just had a look at the specs of that Philips Elite Agro,,,looks promising 

P.S. just had another thought  Out of all the led companies and the minefields of info, and the arguments of what works and what doesn't work, I think I would be inclined to believe the LED R&D of Philips as they've been in the horticultural lighting industry for a lot longer than anyone else with many resources around the world, just saying !


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## stak (Dec 8, 2011)

IAmKrazy2 said:


> I personally have had nothing but great experiences with Grow LED Hydro and their customer service. Furthermore, their product works and works well. Not to dismiss you story, but my experience has been great,


He's not talking about GLH. He was refering to HGL or Hydro Grow LED, the company ran by cammie, who has been scamming people for a while.


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## johny1212 (Dec 8, 2011)

stak said:


> He's not talking about GLH. He was refering to HGL or Hydro Grow LED, the company ran by cammie, who has been scamming people for a while.


 Correct. Read this this I you get a chance. Way more fucked than I thought!

http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-marijuana-growing/721795-hgl-buyer-beware.html


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## WeJuana (Dec 9, 2011)

Spectra












Blackstar












Penetrator


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## maxpesh (Dec 9, 2011)

Looks like the Penetrator has got off to a better start than the other 2 this time around


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## Psytranceorgy (Dec 9, 2011)

nice pics! love the colors =D


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## Lucius Vorenus (Dec 9, 2011)

Just started flushing our Blackstar Grow yesterday. 3 plants. Will be lucky to get 28 grams out of all 3. It was 2 x 240 watters over 3 plants. posted a thread on it a couple weeks ago if interested. WIll post more pics on it soon.


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## supchaka (Dec 9, 2011)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> Just started flushing our Blackstar Grow yesterday. 3 plants. Will be lucky to get 28 grams out of all 3. It was 2 x 240 watters over 3 plants. posted a thread on it a couple weeks ago if interested. WIll post more pics on it soon.


That sounds terrible! I'm curious what went wrong with your grow as I am looking into getting some led for a small cab


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## dickkhead (Dec 11, 2011)

i have 3 900's and 1 500 watt blackstars im waiting to fire. i have the girls vegging under 240 and a 500 HO blackstar and they are flourishing like their under 1000 Mh. Cant wait to flower em


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## WeJuana (Dec 11, 2011)

[video=youtube;S93jKOHQdtA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S93jKOHQdtA[/video]


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## dickkhead (Dec 12, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> [video=youtube;S93jKOHQdtA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S93jKOHQdtA[/video]



which light is the 3rd plant under? and how would you rate the light this time around? you think the 900 BS I purchased is enough for a 4x8 tent I have 3


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## FMCCNate (Dec 12, 2011)

I think 3 900's will kick some ass


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## WeJuana (Dec 12, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> which light is the 3rd plant under? and how would you rate the light this time around? you think the 900 BS I purchased is enough for a 4x8 tent I have 3


Id say 2 900w Blackstars could handle a 4x8, but I would have suggested 3 if you want ideal lighting. I think you will have one heck of a grow on your hands!

Tent 1 - Spectra
Tent 2 - Blackstar
Tent 3 - Penetrator


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## dickkhead (Dec 12, 2011)

FMCCNate said:


> I think 3 900's will kick some ass


sure hope so!



WeJuana said:


> Id say 2 900w Blackstars could handle a 4x8, but I would have suggested 3 if you want ideal lighting. I think you will have one heck of a grow on your hands!
> 
> Tent 1 - Spectra
> Tent 2 - Blackstar
> Tent 3 - Penetrator


 How would you rate them 1st to last? yea the guy at Lighthouse hydro said to run 3 900 in the 4x8, he said 2 will be good but 3 will blow it outa the park! I have 2 4x8 tents to flower in one with HP aeroponics and the other one is canna bitoerra soil and the full bio lone of nutS. planning on scrogging 4 HP aero plants in 4x8, and then scroging 4 soils 2 of them will be in 10 gal airpots for in the other 4x8. I want to make sure the blackstars are where its at beofore i buy any more


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## hippy132 (Dec 12, 2011)

They all are looking great, what are you doing different from round 1, and cal/mag???


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## dickkhead (Dec 12, 2011)

PrezDickie said:


> I miss the thread that used to be about led grows.
> 
> Hey Wejuana, have u used other tents or just the lighthouse? I've heard they are good quality but I have no experience with tents. Some day when I upsize my grow I was considering those. Any other suggestions ?


I have 4x4 from light house and I like the ceiling height and it's a nice tent. But I also have 2 home box tents and the durability of the material and framing I think is better then the LH tent. Just my .02


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## WeJuana (Dec 12, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> sure hope so!
> 
> 
> 
> How would you rate them 1st to last? yea the guy at Lighthouse hydro said to run 3 900 in the 4x8, he said 2 will be good but 3 will blow it outa the park! I have 2 4x8 tents to flower in one with HP aeroponics and the other one is canna bitoerra soil and the full bio lone of nutS. planning on scrogging 4 HP aero plants in 4x8, and then scroging 4 soils 2 of them will be in 10 gal airpots for in the other 4x8. I want to make sure the blackstars are where its at beofore i buy any more


I wouldn't make a judgement on the light until round 2. Each plant, although going through similar issues in round 1, got different levels of severity of the deficiencies. Round 2 should produce much more accurate results as to what the lights can do. Being only 13 days into flower so far which is much too early to tell.



hippy132 said:


> They all are looking great, what are you doing different from round 1, and cal/mag???


Thanks hippie!

Besides subbing cal mag I am keeping the PH constantly changing between 6.3-6.9.. nothing different otherwise. I am quite confident the steady PH and lack of calcium was the issue in round 1. The Trinity Kush plant is coming down in 7 days and is on flush and has had not one issue. Ill put some pics up in a little bit.


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## hippy132 (Dec 13, 2011)

Happy to hear better luck this round, I also, but much room for me to improve. How much Cal/mag and do you use it with each watering or only when you feed with nutes. I am getting ready to give straight water, added some kelp and nitrogen to green them up. Hoping for the best still vegging at 32 days and still some yellowing and the occasional dead leaf.


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## dickkhead (Dec 13, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I wouldn't make a judgement on the light until round 2. Each plant, although going through similar issues in round 1, got different levels of severity of the deficiencies. Round 2 should produce much more accurate results as to what the lights can do. Being only 13 days into flower so far which is much too early to tell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you ever consider running canna bio line of nutrients they have a high ph range


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## WeJuana (Dec 13, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> you ever consider running canna bio line of nutrients they have a high ph range



I have, but so far I am pretty impressed with what I have seen Dyna-Gro do under the appropriate conditions. I also like that Dyna-Gro has such a slow PPM with the base nutes it allows for a good amount of additive supplements. 

Here is a video of the Trinity Kush coming down in about a week using Dyna-Gro > [video=youtube;o4eidhMyi84]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4eidhMyi84&amp;list=UUuA8RYAF1X8uVjPsQHD3yNw&amp; feature=plcp[/video]


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## maxpesh (Dec 14, 2011)

Hey Wej, how's it going ? I hope your grow goes better this time around. My grow with the 2 x 500watt blackstars seems to have slowed right down at 30 days. Plenty of buds and looks great on photo but in reality not what I would be hoping for and I know I'd be doing better under HPS. Never mind it's just an experiment and hopefully the calm before the explosion  Been doing a lot of research and I'm now convinced that all these LED companies have done none at all, seems as if they just jumped on the led bandwagon to make a quick buck (variations on a bad design) ! My design is now however finished and I can't wait to get started, just the old story of finances getting in the way but will get there in the end. Imagine turning led haters into led lovers ? Gonna be so funny . Anyway good luck my friend and I hope you get lots of weed this time around 
Oh just before I go,,,my final research and specs have answered why HPS has always produced much more yield, that is of course about to change. Peace bro !


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## puffenuff (Dec 14, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Hey Wej, how's it going ? I hope your grow goes better this time around. My grow with the 2 x 500watt blackstars seems to have slowed right down at 30 days. Plenty of buds and looks great on photo but in reality not what I would be hoping for and I know I'd be doing better under HPS. Never mind it's just an experiment and hopefully the calm before the explosion  Been doing a lot of research and I'm now convinced that all these LED companies have done none at all, seems as if they just jumped on the led bandwagon to make a quick buck (variations on a bad design) ! My design is now however finished and I can't wait to get started, just the old story of finances getting in the way but will get there in the end. Imagine turning led haters into led lovers ? Gonna be so funny . Anyway good luck my friend and I hope you get lots of weed this time around
> Oh just before I go,,,my final research and specs have answered why HPS has always produced much more yield, that is of course about to change. Peace bro !


Please share your research findings max!


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## PSUAGRO. (Dec 14, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Just saying that my Philips greenpower was by far the best yield/quality that I had compared to all other HID's. I hope that LED's are good for more than just personal grows though. I hope that we are looking for alternative to HID for all grows including commercial, otherwise, what's the point ? Tell you what though, I just had a look at the specs of that Philips Elite Agro,,,looks promising
> 
> P.S. just had another thought  Out of all the led companies and the minefields of info, and the arguments of what works and what doesn't work, I think I would be inclined to believe the LED R&D of Philips as they've been in the horticultural lighting industry for a lot longer than anyone else with many resources around the world, just saying !


Yeah, I agree with many of your points.....Do I believe that leds are the future of horticultural lighting???? I dunno, But I do know that their getting better and better...
For household use they absolutely have hit the mark....Well philips anyways. I have all philips (led)light bulbs in my house because "ecosmart led" bulbs fail after a couple months. So yes i think philips R&D is the best right now with led tech. Just like our expensive grow equipment, it's a better option to spend a little more and get a better warranty and quality components.
Next year will also be interesting for led commercial lighting because not only will "cycloptics technologies" release the all bright, their also releasing an led array with their patented reflection hood(with a new philips led engine).....Might be the "one" to wait for.

Anyways, sorry WEJuana for going off topic.......great grow brother and everything looks healthy; keep it up


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## maxpesh (Dec 14, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Yeah, I agree with many of your points.....Do I believe that leds are the future of horticultural lighting???? I dunno, But I do know that their getting better and better...
> For household use they absolutely have hit the mark....Well philips anyways. I have all philips (led)light bulbs in my house because "ecosmart led" bulbs fail after a couple months. So yes i think philips R&D is the best right now with led tech. Just like our expensive grow equipment, it's a better option to spend a little more and get a better warranty and quality components.
> Next year will also be interesting for led commercial lighting because not only will "cycloptics technologies" release the all bright, their also releasing an led array with their patented reflection hood(with a new philips led engine).....Might be the "one" to wait for.
> 
> Anyways, sorry WEJuana for going off topic.......great grow brother and everything looks healthy; keep it up


Yep ! looks like you have your eye on the ball and you're taking in all the correct info. Philips are the leaders and their R&D is second to none. My findings are taking me down a different route to other LED companies and they "sort of echo" Philips findings and I am hoping to take LED grows to the next level


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## WeJuana (Dec 14, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Hey Wej, how's it going ? I hope your grow goes better this time around. My grow with the 2 x 500watt blackstars seems to have slowed right down at 30 days. Plenty of buds and looks great on photo but in reality not what I would be hoping for and I know I'd be doing better under HPS. Never mind it's just an experiment and hopefully the calm before the explosion  Been doing a lot of research and I'm now convinced that all these LED companies have done none at all, seems as if they just jumped on the led bandwagon to make a quick buck (variations on a bad design) ! My design is now however finished and I can't wait to get started, just the old story of finances getting in the way but will get there in the end. Imagine turning led haters into led lovers ? Gonna be so funny . Anyway good luck my friend and I hope you get lots of weed this time around
> Oh just before I go,,,my final research and specs have answered why HPS has always produced much more yield, that is of course about to change. Peace bro !


What are you using for a finisher? And have you started adding it yet? The second round of flowering induced by the finisher is where the real size and weight comes in and I start adding it around day 30-40 depending on how long I plan to flower, and how the growth is coming along. Usually when flowering begins to slow is a good time to begin using whatever your preference of finisher is. 

I am excited to see what your new design can do.


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## dickkhead (Dec 14, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> What are you using for a finisher? And have you started adding it yet? The second round of flowering induced by the finisher is where the real size and weight comes in and I start adding it around day 30-40 depending on how long I plan to flower, and how the growth is coming along. Usually when flowering begins to slow is a good time to begin using whatever your preference of finisher is.
> 
> I am excited to see what your new design can do.


what do you mean finisher? what are you using? 

how are the 900 doing can u post a pic? thanks man


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## WeJuana (Dec 14, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> what do you mean finisher? what are you using?
> 
> how are the 900 doing can u post a pic? thanks man


I'm using Bloombastic from Atami. If you use a finisher the last 3-4 weeks of your flower period, it induces what is almost like a "second flowering" and your buds continue to bulk up and harden. I suggest checking into either Bloombastic (which I prefer) or as an alternative Shooting Powder is pretty good. I prefer the Bloombastic because its organic so I use it a little longer than I would use the shooting powder. I usually flush for 1 week with using Bloombastic or 2 using Shooting Powder.

I'll definitely snap some shots of the 900 tent, but I have only used it for a veg light thus far so I am not sure how it does on flower. The 500w is holding its own thought so I think its kick some ass, especially 3.


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## WeJuana (Dec 15, 2011)

Spectra



















Blackstar



















Penetrator



















Mother tent pics (900w Blackstar)

Confidential Cheese Lovin Life..






Aurora Indica


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## Endur0xX (Dec 15, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> I have a new Philips CMH bulb and used it for one bloom cycle, the website was supposed to be doing a grow journal, 2 of them against 1 x 1000watt hps 2 years ago and it never happened, then they suddenly started giving away an hps for every CMH bought,,I wonder why ? Anyway my 600watt Philips greenpower blew it out of the water. Yes the CMH was only 400watts but the hype about spectrum was stating that it was the next big thing, not a little fizzle. So IF, UV produces so much resin and the UV emitted from LED fixtures is so small, why do led's produce a good amount of resin anyway. Not arguing any points. I just like proof and results
> 
> Sorry if I sound like a tech head or a pain in the arse, but here is just 1 great example of why I know most led companies have done nearly zero research and just went along with the flow . http://www.photobiology.info/Gorton.html If anyone can be bothered to read for half an hour, I promise you'll be a bit wiser than before you started reading this article  Peace all


To come back to the UV ray discussion, I cannot say whether the reptile lamp or the diamond 100W or the strain is responsible for it, but my Afghan Kush, which is the plant in my scrog that gets the most UV and the most LED light, has the smallest buds bud damn they are frosty, the pictures are a couple days ago and it seems like its getting frostier by the day. Personally, I had to deal with the heat when I first installed my 2 400W, adding the reptile lamp made no difference on the room temps, definitely too hot for a grow cab though. Next grow I will not use the HIDs in the room so I am looking forward to see how the LEDs will do with the kick of the reptile lamp.

DAY 28 Flowering




BTW, nice looking plants Wej!


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## PSUAGRO. (Dec 15, 2011)

Hey wejuana your girls are coming along nicely.....

@endurox.....yours too, and that diamond series led keeps impressing me.....


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## Endur0xX (Dec 15, 2011)

I really like the diamond as well, it's probably my best LED and it's why it's in this room, but I didnt try it on it's own, I just trust it!!. Don't forget that the frosty buds on the pics are also getting 760W HPS. I have a small plant under the blackstar 240 on day 4 flowering, looking forward to see how that one turns out because it's a clone from my healthy grapefruit. This plant will help me confirm my decision of not using the HIDs for the next run. If the grapefruit don't do well under the blackstar240 it will be hard not to use the HIDs because I will not be buying more lights, meaning the LED units I have will have to cut it. I figured once I have my flowering LEDs set in that room I will have roughly 450W actual draw LED to replace the 760W HPS... and it's goint to be hard to keep the lights at good distance because they all have very different specs!!


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## maxpesh (Dec 15, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Hey wejuana your girls are coming along nicely.....
> 
> @endurox.....yours too, and that diamond series led keeps impressing me.....


I would agree that the diamond series is the best LED out there at the moment !


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## dickkhead (Dec 15, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> I'm using Bloombastic from Atami. If you use a finisher the last 3-4 weeks of your flower period, it induces what is almost like a "second flowering" and your buds continue to bulk up and harden. I suggest checking into either Bloombastic (which I prefer) or as an alternative Shooting Powder is pretty good. I prefer the Bloombastic because its organic so I use it a little longer than I would use the shooting powder. I usually flush for 1 week with using Bloombastic or 2 using Shooting Powder.
> 
> I'll definitely snap some shots of the 900 tent, but I have only used it for a veg light thus far so I am not sure how it does on flower. The 500w is holding its own thought so I think its kick some ass, especially 3.


nice what about with bio terra soil and bio nutes? whats a good bud finisher for those? 900 looks good for veg! I need to veg out 2 4x8 scrog what do you think would do it the fastest, 3 900 stationary, 1 1000 MH on a light rail, or i could do 900 on a light rail? what would you do?thanks


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## dickkhead (Dec 15, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> I would agree that the diamond series is the best LED out there at the moment !


whats the prices on the diamond leds and how many watts they draw?


----------



## puffenuff (Dec 15, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> whats the prices on the diamond leds and how many watts they draw?


Http://www.advancedledlights.com

They have 100w - 800w on the diamonds. I have several leds from advanced and they all perform very well.


----------



## puffenuff (Dec 15, 2011)

Everything is looking fantastic wejuana!


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## maxpesh (Dec 15, 2011)

Endur0xX said:


> To come back to the UV ray discussion, I cannot say whether the reptile lamp or the diamond 100W or the strain is responsible for it, but my Afghan Kush, which is the plant in my scrog that gets the most UV and the most LED light, has the smallest buds bud damn they are frosty, the pictures are a couple days ago and it seems like its getting frostier by the day. Personally, I had to deal with the heat when I first installed my 2 400W, adding the reptile lamp made no difference on the room temps, definitely too hot for a grow cab though. Next grow I will not use the HIDs in the room so I am looking forward to see how the LEDs will do with the kick of the reptile lamp.
> 
> DAY 28 Flowering
> 
> ...


I would be very very interested to see 2 grows one with just led and one with led + UV. No HPS involved. Now that would be good research !


----------



## dickkhead (Dec 15, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Http://www.advancedledlights.com
> 
> They have 100w - 800w on the diamonds. I have several leds from advanced and they all perform very well.


Mind posting some pics with just a diamond grow? Do you have a connection with them, on there prices cause for 1995.00 I can get 2 9000 watt black stars. How would the 800 compare to one 900 BS?


----------



## supchaka (Dec 15, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> Mind posting some pics with just diamond grow? Do you have a connection with them, on there prices cause for 1995.00 I can get 2 9000 watt black stars. How would the 800 compare to one 900 BS?


Those are just crazy expensive to me, 800 for a 300 watt is insane. The diamond lights would have to give me head while growing to validate the extra expense over the blackstars.


----------



## WeJuana (Dec 15, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> nice what about with bio terra soil and bio nutes? whats a good bud finisher for those? 900 looks good for veg! I need to veg out 2 4x8 scrog what do you think would do it the fastest, 3 900 stationary, 1 1000 MH on a light rail, or i could do 900 on a light rail? what would you do?thanks


I'd say go with Bloombastic, but you want to add it immediately if your plants are around day 30ish and slowing. I have no experience in flowering with the 900, or MH, so I would not be a good person to ask on this. Anyone with any experience with 900w Blackstars and MH on this thread that can help answer?


----------



## dickkhead (Dec 15, 2011)

ik for that price they better be double the yield of the blackstars!!


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## puffenuff (Dec 15, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> Mind posting some pics with just a diamond grow? Do you have a connection with them, on there prices cause for 1995.00 I can get 2 9000 watt black stars. How would the 800 compare to one 900 BS?


I don't have any pics right now of just a diamond grow. I'll shoot you a link to some journals on another forum that have plenty of pics and info on the advanced led diamond series. I do get a discount on them because when I preordered mine back in August, they locked me into the promo price for future purchases. I've never used a blackstar and from what I see they do a great job for the price. My concern with blackstars is the build quality of the unit itself and the warranty. The advanced leds are built very well, you can tell it's a quality product just from looking at it and picking it up. I do know that blackstars are not pulling the actual draw that they are advertising so that 900 is probably more like a 500w but I'm sure Wejauana or a saavy blackstar user here can confirm that for us. Either way, I expect an 800w diamond to perform better than a 900w bs. Again, I've never used a blackstar led and am only basing this on what I've seen and heard about them in comparison to my own experiences with advanced.


----------



## maxpesh (Dec 15, 2011)

supchaka said:


> Those are just crazy expensive to me, 800 for a 300 watt is insane. The diamond lights would have to give me head while growing to validate the extra expense over the blackstars.


The DS 300 from advanced actual power draw is 275watts. I have 2 of the 500watt blackstars and on my watt meter they actually draw 280watts so the blackstars come in at $549 and the advanced DS300 is $795. I know that I would never buy another Blackstar because the build quality is absolutely diabolical with a flat aluminium plate and very bad chinese led's that just dont do the job properly. The cooling fans are probably the noisiest and the cheapest they could lay their hands on. I know I sound angry but it was my own fault for buying cheap. You get what you pay for ! IMO,,,at this moment in time it would seem to me that the Advanced led's seem to be good value for money considering their build quality and specs, their only fault is that they have switchable spectrums for veg and bloom which to me is a waste of half a light. I want a FULL 275 watts of veg or flower power raining down on my girls, any thoughts ?


----------



## WeJuana (Dec 15, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I don't have any pics right now of just a diamond grow. I'll shoot you a link to some journals on another forum that have plenty of pics and info on the advanced led diamond series. I do get a discount on them because when I preordered mine back in August, they locked me into the promo price for future purchases. I've never used a blackstar and from what I see they do a great job for the price. My concern with blackstars is the build quality of the unit itself and the warranty. The advanced leds are built very well, you can tell it's a quality product just from looking at it and picking it up. I do know that blackstars are not pulling the actual draw that they are advertising so that 900 is probably more like a 500w but I'm sure Wejauana or a saavy blackstar user here can confirm that for us. Either way, I expect an 800w diamond to perform better than a 900w bs. Again, I've never used a blackstar led and am only basing this on what I've seen and heard about them in comparison to my own experiences with advanced.


Yeah the Blackstar 900w unit pulls around 520w on average.


----------



## dickkhead (Dec 15, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> The DS 300 from advanced actual power draw is 275watts. I have 2 of the 500watt blackstars and on my watt meter they actually draw 280watts so the blackstars come in at $549 and the advanced DS300 is $795. I know that I would never buy another Blackstar because the build quality is absolutely diabolical with a flat aluminium plate and very bad chinese led's that just dont do the job properly. The cooling fans are probably the noisiest and the cheapest they could lay their hands on. I know I sound angry but it was my own fault for buying cheap. You get what you pay for ! IMO,,,at this moment in time it would seem to me that the Advanced led's seem to be good value for money considering their build quality and specs, their only fault is that they have switchable spectrums for veg and bloom which to me is a waste of half a light. I want a FULL 275 watts of veg or flower power raining down on my girls, any thoughts ?


 I was told the blackstars have usa diodes not chinese thats why I bought them. I would have to agree about the 800 but at the same time to run both veg/bloom at the sam time while flowering or vegging is prob beneficial cause during flowering Ive read its best to mix MH and HPS to throw all spectrums around. MY .02


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## dickkhead (Dec 15, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I don't have any pics right now of just a diamond grow. I'll shoot you a link to some journals on another forum that have plenty of pics and info on the advanced led diamond series. I do get a discount on them because when I preordered mine back in August, they locked me into the promo price for future purchases. I've never used a blackstar and from what I see they do a great job for the price. My concern with blackstars is the build quality of the unit itself and the warranty. The advanced leds are built very well, you can tell it's a quality product just from looking at it and picking it up. I do know that blackstars are not pulling the actual draw that they are advertising so that 900 is probably more like a 500w but I'm sure Wejauana or a saavy blackstar user here can confirm that for us. Either way, I expect an 800w diamond to perform better than a 900w bs. Again, I've never used a blackstar led and am only basing this on what I've seen and heard about them in comparison to my own experiences with advanced.


please send me the links thanks.


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## supchaka (Dec 15, 2011)

I thought the blackstars were labeled for their true watts

Edit: I guess I was thinking of a different light!


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## WeJuana (Dec 16, 2011)

Spectra













Blackstar













Penetrator


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## organicbynature (Dec 16, 2011)

Is that still the Spectra 290 or have you switched that out?


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## WeJuana (Dec 16, 2011)

organicbynature said:


> Is that still the Spectra 290 or have you switched that out?


It's 2 spectra 150w units running in the tent


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## maxpesh (Dec 16, 2011)

Does anyone know of any LED's that are labelled as true watts drawn ?


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Dec 16, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Does anyone know of any LED's that are labelled as true watts drawn ?


Only one I can think of right now is Lumigrow....
es330= draws 330
es165=draws 165
give or take a couple watts due to the thermo-controlled fans....


----------



## maxpesh (Dec 16, 2011)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Only one I can think of right now is Lumigrow....
> es330= draws 330
> es165=draws 165
> give or take a couple watts due to the thermo-controlled fans....


Shame that the others have to give out so much BS init ! Same old story of style over content as usual.


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## WeJuana (Dec 16, 2011)

maxpesh said:


> Does anyone know of any LED's that are labelled as true watts drawn ?


The penetrator 336x is around 330w, but the 336x is reality is referring to the 336 led's.


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## hippy132 (Dec 16, 2011)

are they old 180's if so what version (again), what did you do with 290, I have 290 , 180 and 150 HPS over three ladies, I have to say the Spectras dont seem to do much...


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## WeJuana (Dec 16, 2011)

No, they are the new 150w's that Spectra is currently carrying. I have the 290 going over the plants in veg along with CFL's and a Blackstar 240 HO.


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## dickkhead (Dec 16, 2011)

watt for watt isnt always better light house hydro on youtube will show an example why


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## dickkhead (Dec 16, 2011)

howmany watts is the blackstar again? it seems to be lacking density behind the others and I dont like that :/


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## WeJuana (Dec 16, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> howmany watts is the blackstar again? it seems to be lacking density behind the others and I dont like that :/


Its around 300w actual draw. All the flowers are really about to start kicking into gear so I would say its kind of early to judge in my opinion.


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## hippy132 (Dec 16, 2011)

How do the colors compare to the 290, I am guessing its a 180 with new ps, I think my draw is 140, just saying... seriously vegging with the 290, rather than using one of the 150's for veg and the 290 and 150 for flower.


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## dickkhead (Dec 16, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Its around 300w actual draw. All the flowers are really about to start kicking into gear so I would say its kind of early to judge in my opinion.


 so its the 500 watt BS right? Nice i hope so, Im doing more research before purchasing anymore, Im gna do a comparison grow myself.


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## WeJuana (Dec 17, 2011)

One of the plastic joints for the tent which has the Penetrator light in it snapped. It was due to the same gate across on top which snapped the Spectra tent corner joint because I failed to disperse the contact point on the Penetrator tent with cardboard as I did with the Spectra.

To make a long story short, during trying to install the new plastic corner joint, one of the metal hooks on the Penetrator light gave away and harvested the Trinity Kush plant early. The LA cons are fortunately unharmed.. and other than some stress to the vegging plants from us brushing against them while going in and out.. losses really amounted to 2-4 days which I would have liked to keep going on the Trinity.

Everything is fixed, and hopefully for good.

Ill post pics tomorrow, right now its time to medicate.


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## puffenuff (Dec 17, 2011)

Sorry to hear about that! Hope it was almost time to chop anyway.


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## WeJuana (Dec 17, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Sorry to hear about that! Hope it was almost time to chop anyway.


Yeah, fortunately it was due to come down in 2-4 days. I think I twerked my shoulder pretty good though while fixing stuff which is sucking pretty bad today.


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## maxpesh (Dec 17, 2011)

Very interesting reading here http://www.photobiology.info/Gorton.html Goes all the way fro 1800s to modern techniques of today and answers the questions as to why HID lighting has been so successful.


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## WeJuana (Dec 17, 2011)

Very good read


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## maxpesh (Dec 17, 2011)

WeJuana said:


> Very good read


Did you notice the part about 2 cell layers to measure Photosynthesis ? Now that is the reason why I know all the Led companies haven't done any research at all and they just jumped on the bandwagon. 2 layer cell alga as opposed to a complex leaf structure, haha con merchants !


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## WeJuana (Dec 18, 2011)

Spectra



















Blackstar



















Penetrator



















Emerald Triangle - Trinity Kush harvest pics











Next to a 1 Quart Jar


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## dickkhead (Dec 18, 2011)

looking good!


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## WeJuana (Dec 18, 2011)

Thank you! I have some of the trinity quick drying in a paper bag.. as soon as it seems dry enough to smoke I am going at it.

I'm also going to be working on a smoke report for round 1 now that its nearing the end of its curing.


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## dickkhead (Dec 18, 2011)

nice yea sorry to hear that got chopped early but honestly it looked like it was a week or 2 away?


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## Endur0xX (Dec 18, 2011)

he was gonna cut it 4 days after he did I believe..


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## WeJuana (Dec 19, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> nice yea sorry to hear that got chopped early but honestly it looked like it was a week or 2 away?


The way things were looking another 4 days of flushing and it would have been ideal.. but honestly if that is the worst mishap I have in the garden this round I'll be real happy.


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## WeJuana (Dec 19, 2011)

Spectra













Blackstar













Penetrator


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## WeJuana (Dec 20, 2011)

I took the Blackstar 900w out of the mother tent today and replaced it with 3 Blackstar 240w HO lights, and replaced the veg area with a T5 instead of the 240w units and a Spectra 290w.


Early Xmas present to the garden


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## WeJuana (Dec 22, 2011)

[video=youtube_share;qUYUpfiERe4]http://youtu.be/qUYUpfiERe4?hd=1[/video]


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## Psytranceorgy (Dec 22, 2011)

looking good WeJuana!


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## WeJuana (Dec 22, 2011)

Thank you! It's about that time they should start putting on some good size and weight!

I'll get some pics up in a bit.


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## WeJuana (Dec 25, 2011)

Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


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## dickkhead (Dec 25, 2011)

Looking good merry Xmas!


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## PSUAGRO. (Dec 25, 2011)

Your bitches look great............Happy holidays everyone


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## WeJuana (Dec 25, 2011)

Thank you thank you! Merry xmas and happy holidays to all!


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## WeJuana (Dec 26, 2011)

Day 27






Spectra











Blackstar











Penetrator












*Round 3*Sneak Peak
*









*

*New Purple Power*Nirvana
*





*
*Qrazy Train*TGA Subcool
*







Random Pics...

*Purple Power (test plant) in Spectra tent*





*
Qrazy Train (test plant) in Spectra tent
*


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## puffenuff (Dec 27, 2011)

WeJuana, as usual, looking great!


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## WeJuana (Dec 28, 2011)

Thank you kindly puff! I'm real curious to see the difference in yield between last round and this one, even though the last plants were a bit bigger in size and stature all around.


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## puffenuff (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm sure you'll do better in yield this time around sans any problems. Quick question though, are the purple power and qrazy train test plants in the same tent as the round 2 spectra or in a different tent with a spectra?


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## supchaka (Dec 28, 2011)

That purple power in the spectra test tent is pretty sad looking. Im not a hater, Im still wanting to get an LED to try out for heat reasons.


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## WeJuana (Dec 28, 2011)

supchaka said:


> That purple power in the spectra test tent is pretty sad looking. Im not a hater, Im still wanting to get an LED to try out for heat reasons.


What makes you think it's sad looking? 

If it is because the bud sites are smaller and shaped differently than the other bushes, take into account its almost pure sativa and its a 10 week strain. Out of all the strains I have flowering I think the Purple Power is doing the best and is by far the frostiest so far.


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## WeJuana (Dec 28, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> I'm sure you'll do better in yield this time around sans any problems. Quick question though, are the purple power and qrazy train test plants in the same tent as the round 2 spectra or in a different tent with a spectra?


The next round of clones coming up were cut from those 2 plants which are currently flowering in the spectra tent.


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## WeJuana (Jan 3, 2012)

Spectra
















Blackstar
















Penetrator

















Looks like the Penetrator tent may be getting a little nute burned, which is quite odd as I have been feeding the same mix to all tents. This next feeding I will be diluting the feed for the Penetrator in half with RO water.


I also wanted to announce that after round 2, I will be ending the comparison grow for a little while.


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## dickkhead (Jan 3, 2012)

Everything looks great! Can't wait to use my BS!


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## PSUAGRO. (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey Wejuana everything is coming along nicely...

Taking a break is a good idea....These comparison grows look exhausting to me.......


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## dickkhead (Jan 3, 2012)

I just signed up for the growers feed back for the solar storm so hopefully it doesnt exhaust me!


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## WeJuana (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks guys. 

Yeah it's not the easiest, but mostly due the the lack of space in the current location. I will hopefully be back online in not too long from the next spot once the second round is harvested and numbers are reported.


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## dickkhead (Jan 4, 2012)

so i got my 900 watt full white spectrum led in today and also another 900 watt red white n blue led. im waiting for the solar storm. but im going to compare the solar storm to all the diff lights i have which will be 3 different 900 should be interesting!! how do you post pics on this site?


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## puffenuff (Jan 4, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> so i got my 900 watt full white spectrum led in today and also another 900 watt red white n blue led. im waiting for the solar storm. but im going to compare the solar storm to all the diff lights i have which will be 3 different 900 should be interesting!! how do you post pics on this site?


Awesome, sounds good like a good comparison you'll be doing. What is the brand of the full white spectrum led? To upload pics, click on "Go Advanced" and then click on the paperclip icon to manage attachments (pics).


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## puffenuff (Jan 4, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Yeah it's not the easiest, but mostly due the the lack of space in the current location. I will hopefully be back online in not too long from the next spot once the second round is harvested and numbers are reported.


All your hard work is/has been much appreciated. There will be always be a place for you here if you decide to come back and do another journal. Looking forward to your second round results.


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## Swiftowl11 (Jan 5, 2012)

WOW, so I just finish reading this whole thread start to finish. Great information. I want to thank you immensely Wejuana for putting this together and continuing the journey with round 2. I will be following this thread still. Your thread convinced me to go with the Spectra GLH. Also instead of getting one massive light, I will go with a bunch of small ones for the foot print. The 5 year warranty is what got me. But, the build quality on the light I shouldn't have to worry about a warranty. Thanks again Wejuana


----------



## gargantuanganja (Jan 5, 2012)

That was awesome... You put up with a lot of bullshit, but we need more people like you in here. I was wondering if maybe next time you could include one of the 357Mag LED lights? I originally planned on buying the penetrator-x pro lights, but I went with the new 357s instead because they have a switch for vegetative and flowering spectrums which I havn't seen on the others, although it may be useless. I'm totally new to this. Your hard work is appreciated!


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## Heretic (Jan 5, 2012)

Swiftowl11 said:


> WOW, so I just finish reading this whole thread start to finish. Great information. I want to thank you immensely Wejuana for putting this together and continuing the journey with round 2. I will be following this thread still. Your thread convinced me to go with the Spectra GLH. Also instead of getting one massive light, I will go with a bunch of small ones for the foot print. The 5 year warranty is what got me. But, the build quality on the light I shouldn't have to worry about a warranty. Thanks again Wejuana


It sounds like a good warranty if he would pick up his phone. I get a hold of him _maybe_ every 5th time I call. I've been trying to get new power supply's for my 290's for a while now. I sent him emails and calls about it months ago and nothing. Just this december is when I finally talked to him. A couple times he told me to call back due to his supplier not getting him the power supply's. A few calls and messages later... nothing.


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Jan 5, 2012)

Heretic said:


> It sounds like a good warranty if he would pick up his phone. I get a hold of him _maybe_ every 5th time I call. I've been trying to get new power supply's for my 290's for a while now. I sent him emails and calls about it months ago and nothing. Just this december is when I finally talked to him. A couple times he told me to call back due to his supplier not getting him the power supply's. A few calls and messages later... nothing.


That totally blows


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## 711grower (Jan 5, 2012)

i agree with heretic. he lost my business. i had a spectra 500 that had a row of leds go out. its practically impossible to reach him by email. several phone calls and many messages later i finally got ahold of him. he honored the warranty and even paid for all shipping so i will credit him for that. i ended up selling the light to go with smaller units from a different company. the glh website is out of date, and its difficult to get in touch with anybody. no offense to those that love his lights but the performance of the company as a whole is terrible. a 5 year warranty isnt worth anything if the company isnt around... just my 2 cents


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## Heretic (Jan 5, 2012)

From what I've heard I think I'll eventually get my lights fixed, but I also won't be buying anything else from him. Seems like a poorly run company, like he needs to hire someone else to take care of customers or the website... But what do I know? lol. For now I have $1300 in spectra paperweights. If I don't get new supply's soon, I'll have to go to the local shop to get an hps setup to keep my thing going. :/


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## Swiftowl11 (Jan 5, 2012)

Well I took the plunge, I purchased 10 of his Spectra 100 140w power draw. I will be running a journal as soon as I get the lights. Already have seeds germinating, and seedlings under cfl. Cant wait to get rid of these 600w. Start to end with my grow. See how these led grow with a hydro set-up. Im so excited.


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## supchaka (Jan 5, 2012)

you just plunged in and bought 10 of the guys lights they are talking about?


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## backwood grower (Jan 5, 2012)

I still am not sold on LED, Does anyone have a speed test? yea they can pull 1.4GPW but how long from start to finish?
Under a 600W MH vegging for 3 weeks from seed, and then Flowered under a 1000W HPS for 7 weeks, So thats 10 weeks start to finish, on ten plants per room I pull 1.5-2.5lbs, does anyone have a complete LED grow that can side by side with that? Im not saying it cant, just saying I have yet to see it and honestly I would like to know it can be done cause it would save me alot of money on electricity.


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## dickkhead (Jan 5, 2012)

Heretic said:


> It sounds like a good warranty if he would pick up his phone. I get a hold of him _maybe_ every 5th time I call. I've been trying to get new power supply's for my 290's for a while now. I sent him emails and calls about it months ago and nothing. Just this december is when I finally talked to him. A couple times he told me to call back due to his supplier not getting him the power supply's. A few calls and messages later... nothing.


 I was thinking the same thing about the black dog leds he says he has a life time warranty what good is it if he goes under esp in this economy! 

I just fired a full white spectrum led i got on a grower feed back program thats not even on the market yet the fuckin thing is bright! im excited to compare 4 leds that I have.


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## dickkhead (Jan 5, 2012)

Swiftowl11 said:


> Well I took the plunge, I purchased 10 of his Spectra 100 140w power draw. I will be running a journal as soon as I get the lights. Already have seeds germinating, and seedlings under cfl. Cant wait to get rid of these 600w. Start to end with my grow. See how these led grow with a hydro set-up. Im so excited.


your kidding me right!? what did you pay for 10 of those?


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## Endur0xX (Jan 5, 2012)

I have a hard time trusting claim about LEDs when someone has less than 20 post


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 5, 2012)

Endur0xX said:


> I have a hard time trusting claim about LEDs when someone has less than 20 post


People have to start somewhere right??


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 5, 2012)

backwood grower said:


> I still am not sold on LED, Does anyone have a speed test? yea they can pull 1.4GPW but how long from start to finish?
> Under a 600W MH vegging for 3 weeks from seed, and then Flowered under a 1000W HPS for 7 weeks, So thats 10 weeks start to finish, on ten plants per room I pull 1.5-2.5lbs, does anyone have a complete LED grow that can side by side with that? Im not saying it cant, just saying I have yet to see it and honestly I would like to know it can be done cause it would save me alot of money on electricity.


I'm doing a comparison grow now about to compare 4 diff led. I'll be starting a thread soon. to answer all this I think the LEDs I have are some top contenders to knock out mh n hps. Well see though


----------



## Heretic (Jan 5, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I was thinking the same thing about the black dog leds he says he has a life time warranty what good is it if he goes under esp in this economy!
> 
> I just fired a full white spectrum led i got on a grower feed back program thats not even on the market yet the fuckin thing is bright! im excited to compare 4 leds that I have.


Ya I saw your earlier post. What is the solar storm thing you mentioned? What company made this white led you're talking about?


----------



## Heretic (Jan 5, 2012)

Endur0xX said:


> I have a hard time trusting claim about LEDs when someone has less than 20 post




Edit: One post closer to being taken seriously!


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 5, 2012)

see the one problem i have so far with LED is this, the only LED that can put out a manufactures claim of 1000Watts of light has a few issues that I can see, 
1: it cost 3000$ !!!!! http://stealthgrow.com/products.htm#SG1250
2: it still pulls 600Watts 

So at these numbers with some basic math heres what I come up with (these numbers are based on 12/12 light cycle for constant year round grows)
Numbers for HID system come from 
https://cheaphydroponics.com

Based on the Below Chart It would Take 11 years to make up the cost difference of the HID system, Actually if you replaced your bulb in the HID system every 3 cycles it would actually take about 5 years, but still its 5 years worth of grows to cover the cost of ONE LED light that can output the same weight as a HID 1000watt system. I really hope someone can prove me wrong here.

LEDStandardCost Differencestarting cost3499553.58-2945.42Cost per month44.164.820.7Cost per Year536.11788.4252.29


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## Beefbisquit (Jan 6, 2012)

backwood grower said:


> see the one problem i have so far with LED is this, the only LED that can put out a manufactures claim of 1000Watts of light has a few issues that I can see,
> 1: it cost 3000$ !!!!! http://stealthgrow.com/products.htm#SG1250
> 2: it still pulls 600Watts
> 
> ...



What about not running an A/C? Monthly and startup costs... 

Not to mention if you're starting from scratch you need extra power boxes, wires, etc. etc. to run the extra fans, A/C, and higher wattage drawing lights.


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## Swiftowl11 (Jan 6, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> your kidding me right!? what did you pay for 10 of those?


 Lets just say I paid a lot less then 1 penetrator 336x 1w.  





My post before spectras arrive. Then journal when there here. 
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/500763-im-offically-led-grower-spectra.html#post6883308


----------



## Catchin22 (Jan 6, 2012)

It's nice to see the LEDs getting more attention. I really feel this is the way of the future. Prices will come down the more people support them. Really the price to build your own if you have the know how is pretty small! Read up online on tutorials and experiment. Problem is to get the real cheap LED prices you have to purchase them in bulk from China. I've thought about building my own cheaper to sell them cheaper but I would almost have to do a group buy on them to do so.


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 6, 2012)

backwood grower said:


> I still am not sold on LED, Does anyone have a speed test? yea they can pull 1.4GPW but how long from start to finish?
> Under a 600W MH vegging for 3 weeks from seed, and then Flowered under a 1000W HPS for 7 weeks, So thats 10 weeks start to finish, on ten plants per room I pull 1.5-2.5lbs, does anyone have a complete LED grow that can side by side with that? Im not saying it cant, just saying I have yet to see it and honestly I would like to know it can be done cause it would save me alot of money on electricity.





backwood grower said:


> see the one problem i have so far with LED is this, the only LED that can put out a manufactures claim of 1000Watts of light has a few issues that I can see,
> 1: it cost 3000$ !!!!! http://stealthgrow.com/products.htm#SG1250
> 2: it still pulls 600Watts
> 
> ...



Yea think about the cost it takes to keep your room cool add that to the equation and it prob take a year to pay for itself!


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 6, 2012)

Lighthouse hydro has a YouTube where they compare there LEDs to the Chinese LEDs the Chinese one draws more actually watts then the black start but registers less under the light meter. So I'd be cautios when ordering Chinese crap lol. My black star 900 draws 550 actually watts and my full white spectrum led day star draws 750, the solar storm draws 450 in veg and 550 I'm bloom so it will be interesting to see which is better!


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jan 6, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Yea think about the cost it takes to keep your room cool add that to the equation and it prob take a year to pay for itself!


For a shitty, small, 12k BTU, A/C to run 24/7 you're looking at $65/month to cool a 600sq/ft room.... and that's @ $0.06/Kwh, it's more expensive here... 

If that gives you an idea...


If you're running a bunch of lights, you're going to need more than one A/C....

$780/year in A/C + at least $350 for the A/C.... is over $1100 extra just for 1 year.

Plus $780 x 5 years = $3900 over 5 years.


So,


*


LEDStandardCost Differencestarting cost3499903.58-2595.58Cost per month44.1129.885.7Cost per Year536.111557.801021.49




​
​
*So, in less than 3 years you'll see your money back. (which is less than the warranty on most quality LED's)

That's not counting watering your plants less due to less evaporation, or maintenance costs on A/C when it breaks from running 24/7 all the time.


I love how you also picked the most expensive LED system you could find.

Personally, to get 680watts, I'd use x5 PG-180's or something similar. Smaller units, that you can maneuver to your liking. 

PG180 (160 actual watts) = $300

$300 x 5 = $1500 (Hydrohut will give you a discount for buying 5 so the price won't be $1500) Gives you 800 watts of actual power, with less than half the startup cost. So, within 1 1/2 yrs you'd make your money back.



EDIT: Also, x2 Advanced LED 400watt panels is 800 actual watts drawn, for less than $2000....


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 6, 2012)

Beefbisquit said:


> For a shitty, small, 12k BTU, A/C to run 24/7 you're looking at $65/month to cool a 600sq/ft room.... and that's @ $0.06/Kwh, it's more expensive here...
> 
> If that gives you an idea...
> 
> ...


Exactly so if your running a few of them your talking over a grand a year to keep your room cool 
so the led is worth the initial start up cost!


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 6, 2012)

I just realized that the black star isn't a true 900 it's 288 3 watt chips 864 watts prob why it only reads 550 on the watt meter 
As oposed to the day star white led that registers 750 it has 300 3 watt chips! Seems like every company is cutting corners these days from the cans of food we buy to the lights we grow with!


----------



## Heretic (Jan 6, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I just realized that the black star isn't a true 900 it's 288 3 watt chips 864 watts prob why it only reads 550 on the watt meter
> As oposed to the day star white led that registers 750 it has 300 3 watt chips! Seems like every company is cutting corners these days from the cans of food we buy to the lights we grow with!


It doesn't necessarily mean they're cutting corners. It just depends on how much power they want to give to the leds. More juice per chip can actually lower life while not getting back the equivalent in performance. I believe it's getting better though.


----------



## hippy132 (Jan 6, 2012)

I'd say you are talking to him, what else in the grow journal could have caused him to think glh...lol


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 6, 2012)

Beefbisquit said:


> For a shitty, small, 12k BTU, A/C to run 24/7 you're looking at $65/month to cool a 600sq/ft room.... and that's @ $0.06/Kwh, it's more expensive here...
> 
> If that gives you an idea...
> 
> ...



Ok thats a bit better in the price category, I didnt purposely pick the most expensive unit I just looked for one that claimed equal or better yield size than a 1000HID system, Also i didnt add an AC cause in the 10 years i have been growing i have never Used an AC unit, one of the benefits of mountain growing i guess. So for me the first chart with that specific LED system was accurate, but Now that i have been looking around I thinking my next upgrade will be magnetic Induction lighting, I have always been a fan of induction for home lighting since they last for fucking EVER, but now it seems there are some grow spectrum lights on the market as well so i might pick one of those up and do a grow off vs LED to see if they are comparable, I really do want to try and LED grow, they do seem really effective for there size.


----------



## Shwagbag (Jan 6, 2012)

Here I am!


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 6, 2012)

Dammm!! Who's ass is that in your avatar lol


----------



## curly604 (Jan 6, 2012)

also about the 600w of led you could go with 2 of the blackstar "500w" models they actually run at 300w and you could nab em both for about 1000$ and ive seen some real nice grows done with them , if ya work out the math on that plus the cost of a/c and additional fans and other things led's become a very real very competitive option ...... just sayin


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 6, 2012)

curly604 said:


> also about the 600w of led you could go with 2 of the blackstar "500w" models they actually run at 300w and you could nab em both for about 1000$ and ive seen some real nice grows done with them , if ya work out the math on that plus the cost of a/c and additional fans and other things led's become a very real very competitive option ...... just sayin


yea ive seen some great grows with the 500's.


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jan 6, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> yea ive seen some great grows with the 500's.


I like my Blackstar's....

....but I love my Pro-grows 



I want to try Haight Solid State LED's, or the Solar Flare LED from California Light works next.... Advanced LED's look killer too; seen some great things from those Diamond Series.


----------



## curly604 (Jan 7, 2012)

hey beef i would stay away from haight solid state they are not built up to standard no fans or apparent heat sink .... ive heard people having issues with browning around there diodes from overheating .... the rest of those sound interesting for sure though


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 7, 2012)

Beefbisquit said:


> I like my Blackstar's....
> 
> ....but I love my Pro-grows
> 
> ...


my solar flare will be her this week


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jan 7, 2012)

curly604 said:


> hey beef i would stay away from haight solid state they are not built up to standard no fans or apparent heat sink .... ive heard people having issues with browning around there diodes from overheating .... the rest of those sound interesting for sure though


They have a huge heat sink... it's clearly visible in all the product shots.


----------



## curly604 (Jan 7, 2012)

cool man ya ive never used one myself so i cant say but this guy was pissed about it just trying to save people anguish  and even if it does have a big heat sink ...... no fans!!! not for me no thank you


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 7, 2012)

how are the plants coming?


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 8, 2012)

Hey everyone.. good to see the thread with some life in it again!

As fate has it.. during taking the jimmy jangged light setup down and putting up shelving, the corner joint gave away in the Spectra tent, taking out the purple power plant 3 weeks early. Looks like I will have a good amount of concentrate when it's all said and done though.

So... since there was room in all 3 tents, I through the purple power plants in there. I'm considering it round 3, but at harvest of the round 2 plants I will be putting the 900w Blackstar in place of the 500w.

(Spectra)
















(Blackstar)
















(Penetrator)

















(Qrazy Train in tan pots [round 4?])






Trinity Kush (closest 2) & misc strains on right


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Jan 8, 2012)

nice update Wejuana, thanks!


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 8, 2012)

looking good! Spectra I think looks the dense's could be the fact it takes a clearer pic then the bs n penetrator, how many actual watts is each light?


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks. All bushes are producing quite well, even though the leaves on the Penetrator aren't the sexiest. I'll try to get better pics up soon.. my good camera has been out on other projects but i will have it back soon enough.

The power draw is:

300w Blackstar
335w Penetrator
360w Spectras


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 8, 2012)

How many actual 3 watt chips does each light have? the 900 bs only has 864 chips for instance


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 8, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> How many actual 3 watt chips does each light have? the 900 bs only has 864 chips for instance


You would have to look on the manufacturer websites for that info.. I am not sure of the exact technical specs.


----------



## Shwagbag (Jan 8, 2012)

Heretic said:


> It doesn't necessarily mean they're cutting corners. It just depends on how much power they want to give to the leds. More juice per chip can actually lower life while not getting back the equivalent in performance. I believe it's getting better though.


The wavelength efficiency can turn out to be higher than expected when making these lights. I wouldn't be surprised if some manu's make mods after they aim for a certain power consumption, then adjust downward to reduce PAR levels. This is what Mike did with the 180 spectras juicing them down to 140.


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 12, 2012)

I got the good camera back!

Spectra






























Blackstar


















Penetrator






























Qrazy Train (Test Plant day 44)







Qrazy Train (Round 3)







These will be headed into flower on Friday and will hopefully be harvested at the same time as the Purple Power plants.


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 12, 2012)

looking good 
close call!


----------



## PrezDickie (Jan 12, 2012)

been a while since i've seen the plants, damn they are looking 100% better this time around. looks like you've got a hightimes layout there my friend. congrats and thanks again for the journal


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## puffenuff (Jan 12, 2012)

Beautiful!


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## Psytranceorgy (Jan 12, 2012)

really, really nice plants AND pictures, thank you for sharing Wejuana! Kudos to you for turning things around and having great success in your LED growing!!!


----------



## FMCCNate (Jan 12, 2012)

Looking good man


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 12, 2012)

Thank you all very much! I'm glad this round (2) turned out a bit more like was originally expected.
I really appreciate everyone's interest, especially those who stuck through the slow moving round 1.

**ROUND 3 UPDATES**
Round 3 is going to have a few changes..

The 900w Blackstar is not currently in use in any tent, so I will be trading out the 500w Blackstar which is currently in the flower tent for the 900w, and see what that does for results.

Also, one of the current flower tent will be changed out and replaced with a 600w HPS, making round 3 HPS VS LED (VS LED) to see how these different lighting sources stack up.


----------



## Heretic (Jan 12, 2012)

Love the HPS idea. Can't wait!


----------



## Shwagbag (Jan 12, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Thank you all very much! I'm glad this round (2) turned out a bit more like was originally expected.
> I really appreciate everyone's interest, especially those who stuck through the slow moving round 1.
> 
> **ROUND 3 UPDATES**
> ...


Round 3 over HPS wins. LOL


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Jan 12, 2012)

Awesomeness =D


----------



## supchaka (Jan 12, 2012)

I must have missed the post where you said there was going to be a round 3, thought the comparisons were cancelled. Good to hear they arent! Ill be watching still. And yeah that one plant I was bagging on awhile back looks like it filled out just fine now!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 12, 2012)

supchaka said:


> I must have missed the post where you said there was going to be a round 3, thought the comparisons were cancelled. Good to hear they arent! Ill be watching still. And yeah that one plant I was bagging on awhile back looks like it filled out just fine now!



Kinda crazy story actually.. lol. The plant your referring to (Purple Power) got murdered by one of the lights that fell on it, when a tent corner joint gave away while reconstructing the veg area. Its on page 119 (Day 41). 

Since that made room for more plants, the clones from the Purple Power which had been vegging for about 5 weeks were placed in the flower tents 4 days ago, and at the 7 day mark I will be adding 1 Qrazy Train bush into each flower tent and that will now be round 3.

The Qrazy Train bush is really filling out quite nicely though and the ones I am putting into flower on day 7 have an extra week or 2 vegging compared to the current flowering bush.


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Jan 12, 2012)

Love those bud shots under the pink..........sexy.


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 12, 2012)

Thank you! I'll try to get some video up tonight


----------



## azmedman (Jan 12, 2012)

I was bidding aganst you, had to pay $210 more for my 6.


----------



## azmedman (Jan 12, 2012)

I was bidding aganst you had to pay $210 more for my 6.


dickkhead said:


> your kidding me right!? what did you pay for 10 of those?


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 12, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Thank you all very much! I'm glad this round (2) turned out a bit more like was originally expected.
> I really appreciate everyone's interest, especially those who stuck through the slow moving round 1.
> 
> **ROUND 3 UPDATES**
> ...


I think the only light that will compare to the hps is the day star 900 watt full white spectrum led im currently testing. the plant is responding like crazy right now while im vegging with it be interesting to see how it does in flower!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 12, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> I think the only light that will compare to the hps is the day star 900 watt full white spectrum led im currently testing. the plant is responding like crazy right now while im vegging with it be interesting to see how it does in flower!


Do you plan on using the full white spectrum LED all the way through flower?


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 12, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Do you plan on using the full white spectrum LED all the way through flower?


Yea the owner off the company says its good for veg n flower 
Prob another week or 2 till I flower I'm a a scroging a plant under it now


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 12, 2012)

Nice. Im excited to see some pix


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 13, 2012)

[video=youtube;544bCXMM2Hk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=544bCXMM2Hk[/video]


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Jan 13, 2012)

Oh man WeJuana, I just sat down after inhaling:








which is from about 3 oz of kandy kush ground up in that space case over the last 3 months...

..... I got comfortable on the living room couch


..............and I fired up your video fullscreen on the TV...





and all I can say is......






 *holy [email protected]#%^ING Sh5#T that video is beautiful!!!! <3*


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 13, 2012)

those look realy close this time around it will be interseting to see what the final weigh in is!


----------



## Swiftowl11 (Jan 13, 2012)

azmedman said:


> I was bidding aganst you had to pay $210 more for my 6.


Dang man sorry bout that. I got my 10 for a super cheap price. Im glad you got some. You need to throw a grow up on the led forum. 

Love watching the video start to end. I make sure I hit the bong first then enjoy your grow video. 
Keep it up looking real good.


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 13, 2012)

Thank you very much! 

And Psytranceorgy, I like your style! You made me bust out the HDMI cord and watch the video on the big screen and it definitely adds a little bit to the experience! That and I put on a good tool song and muted the damn fan noise haha.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 13, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x_eicSEEj8

heres some HP aero girls under a 500 watt HO bs, 240watt HO bs, and a 900 red white blue daystar, the first 2 r under the ds and the last 2 r under the bs's. ill get another video in the am of the other leds. not trying to jack your thread just wanted to show u


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 14, 2012)

Not a problem, I'm glad to see your thread get started and I'm subbed up


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## PSUAGRO. (Jan 14, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x_eicSEEj8
> 
> heres some HP aero girls under a 500 watt HO bs, 240watt HO bs, and a 900 red white blue daystar, the first 2 r under the ds and the last 2 r under the bs's. ill get another video in the am of the other leds. not trying to jack your thread just wanted to show u


You got a link to this "daystar" manufacturer??? thanks


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jan 14, 2012)

Psytranceorgy said:


> Oh man WeJuana, I just sat down after inhaling:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



...*cough*


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 14, 2012)

Shwagbag said:


> Round 3 over HPS wins. LOL


Might not "win" the GPW race, but its Yeild/coverage area, is second ONLY to induction lighting, LED still cant beat the big dogs in Y/C period.


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 14, 2012)

Whys bid dogs in y/c


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 14, 2012)

sry, spell check is not my friend


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## WeJuana (Jan 15, 2012)

9 days til harvest and the lights change.


----------



## PrezDickie (Jan 15, 2012)

Over 800 likes on your thread now, must be doing something right


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 15, 2012)

Thanks Prez I'm trying! I feel like I got a pretty descent handle on the soil so I am hoping next round will be even a bit better than this second.


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 16, 2012)

Spectra


























Blackstar































Penetrator































Qrazy Train (Round 1)


----------



## MISSPHOEBE (Jan 16, 2012)

Pink is SUCH a good Colour!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lovely Pix


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Jan 16, 2012)

Awesome pics man............Your RH is a little high.....watch out for PM........
Everything looks dialed in..........be safe/happy growing..


----------



## dannyboy602 (Jan 16, 2012)

i'm salavating.


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jan 16, 2012)

Lookin' great, WJ!

I look forward to seeing his crop get harvested!


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 17, 2012)

looking good!! close call!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 17, 2012)

Yeah it should come down to the weight and smoke! 7 days and counting..


----------



## FMCCNate (Jan 18, 2012)

Still can't beat the blackstar ! I could buy two for the price of the other lights so even if it falls behind a bit there's no way 2 of them wouldn't kick some major ass


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Jan 18, 2012)

*g o r g e o u s ! ! !*


----------



## puffenuff (Jan 18, 2012)

My new hero -- WeJuana

Doing all us led growers proud. Look forward to the harvest!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 18, 2012)

Thank you thank you ! Picture or video updates coming tonight..


----------



## FMCCNate (Jan 18, 2012)

I think it would be pretty hard for a LED basher to come into this thread and bash led's. Proof is inthe pics


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 19, 2012)

Sorry about the delayed update! My photographer obscondered with the camera last night, but updates will be coming tonight for sure!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 19, 2012)

[video=youtube;4sL3KIOlkE4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sL3KIOlkE4[/video]


----------



## Shwagbag (Jan 19, 2012)

Sweet dude, thanks for taking the time to share!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 19, 2012)

Shwagbag said:


> Sweet dude, thanks for taking the time to share!


Not a problem at all! Thank you for following the journal.


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Jan 20, 2012)

Beautiful plants, amazing colors! Great video, thanks for sharing WeJuana! will be a marvelous harvest for you for sure =D


----------



## PrezDickie (Jan 20, 2012)

penetrator seemed to have a lot less orange pistil than the other two tents... not sure what it means just happened to notice i was thinking, damn that LA con looks like orange bud with all those pistils until the last tent then not so much, and BTW the Qrazy Train looks amazing! nice beefy buds


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 20, 2012)

PrezDickie said:


> penetrator seemed to have a lot less orange pistil than the other two tents... not sure what it means just happened to notice i was thinking, damn that LA con looks like orange bud with all those pistils until the last tent then not so much, and BTW the Qrazy Train looks amazing! nice beefy buds


That last tent was a little more orange a few days ago but there has been a real good amount of white pistils coming out on all of them for a strong finish on the last 4 days til chop!

I'm so excited to get to trimming and drying so I can finally get a weight recorded!


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 20, 2012)

cant wait for the results!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 20, 2012)

I just detalied the LA cons with my jewelers loupe and all I see is cloudy trichs. It looks like instead of chopping on the 24th it may be somewhere around the end of the month just to let these things finish out right and deplete all that remaining nitrogen.


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Jan 20, 2012)

patience grasshahpah


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 21, 2012)

Psytranceorgy said:


> patience grasshahpah


I'm trying. Its like waiting all year for christmas and then having it be postponed til new years! So close yet so far lol.


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 21, 2012)

Spectra































Qrazy Train











Blackstar


























Penetrator
































Purple Power





Qrazy Train





Confidential Cheese


----------



## WeedKillsBrainCells (Jan 21, 2012)

Great thread but skipped into page 60ish to see progression and just saw the general fighting on LED posts. You'd think it was a geopolitical debate rather than some fucking lights. Still nice to see a post like this


Edit; are we really on page 126 and 1st harvest not complete yet?


----------



## Shwagbag (Jan 21, 2012)

Pages depend on your settings. I'm on page 32. These lights do spark a lot of debate, there's a lot of science behind their tech. Not to mention, they are expensive!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 21, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> Great thread but skipped into page 60ish to see progression and just saw the general fighting on LED posts. You'd think it was a geopolitical debate rather than some fucking lights. Still nice to see a post like this
> 
> 
> Edit; are we really on page 126 and 1st harvest not complete yet?


This will actually be harvest #3 of this test.


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 21, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> This will actually be harvest #3 of this test.


 and honestly it looks the closest!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 21, 2012)

[video=youtube;dhxB2eBMLBU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhxB2eBMLBU&amp;list=UUuA8RYAF1X8uVjPsQHD3yNw&amp; index=1&amp;feature=plcp[/video]


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 21, 2012)

After a lot of looking, and finding there is definitely a lack of Dyna-Gro feed charts, especially for soil, I decided to compile my notes into a chart.

Main nutes are Dyna-Gro with mostly Advanced Nutrients additives, but they are all listed and in what quantities.

All I ask is anyone who decides to try this, please comment and let us know how it worked for you!

[video=youtube;vvRzy5kzwvc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvRzy5kzwvc[/video]


----------



## axionjaxson (Jan 22, 2012)

maxpesh said:


> Sorry, but no joke ! Even all the REAL research teams will tell you that it was never proven, but here we go again with all the led companies just using advertising gimmicks to sell stuff that isn't proven and because we all have human desires to have something good that hopefully works great, we believe them. Prove it yourself if you want to see it with your own eyes. Go to any Chemist and buy those children's UV detector bracelets that the kids wear on holiday to go in the Sun. Now bear in mind that LED lights do produce more resin than traditional HPS bulbs that put out a lot of UV. Now place the bracelet in the Sun and you'll see it change colour and then place it about 12 inches away from something like a Blackstar or Penetrator or any of the LED fixtures with a couple of UV bulbs on them. You will be amazed that there is no change in the colour of the bracelet unless you put it right up to the UV bulb itself, so the plants are getting virtually NO uv at all, and yet still produce resin. So it's a waste of time


a weather machine works too?


----------



## Endur0xX (Jan 22, 2012)

which tent do you prefer now Wej, it's been a while using those lights, you gotta a favorite brand? I can see the blackstar and penetrator seem to be growing the bigger buds


----------



## puffenuff (Jan 22, 2012)

That's an awesome idea to compile your feeding regiment into that spiffy chart. Another thing done superbly, WJ!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 22, 2012)

Endur0xX said:


> which tent do you prefer now Wej, it's been a while using those lights, you gotta a favorite brand? I can see the blackstar and penetrator seem to be growing the bigger buds


I am honestly not too sure what tent is producing the most at this point. My deducing a favorite will all come down to the quantity and quality of the smoke to determine that. 2-3 more weeks and we should have definitive answers.


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 22, 2012)

One question I have yet to see answered is this,
What is the ACTUAL difference between an HPS grown plant and an LED? I have never seen test results that prove LED produces a better bud, I have asked Advanced..they hung up on me, I called the people at Stealth Grow.. They said they can not determine an answer, when I asked them why they brand there leds as producing better bud they said that to them it looks better, to which I said looks are not everything, to which the guy on the phone said and I quote "maybe not to you, but to most people looks equal top quality"

So has anyone ever tested there bud side by side with HID grown bud to prove up that LED is better??


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Jan 22, 2012)

Damn I came late to the party again.........your video link is broken................don't matter I wont smoke it anyways

joking aside........be safe and happy growing.


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 23, 2012)

@backwood - I have never myself grown the same genetics side by side under LED and HPS, but that is what the next round holds, so I hope here in about 8 weeks we will have the answer of the differences between the two lighting systems.
@PSUAGRO - Which link is not working (which post #)? Thank you much lad and glad to see your presence back on the thread.


----------



## Endur0xX (Jan 23, 2012)

backwood grower said:


> One question I have yet to see answered is this,
> What is the ACTUAL difference between an HPS grown plant and an LED? I have never seen test results that prove LED produces a better bud, I have asked Advanced..they hung up on me, I called the people at Stealth Grow.. They said they can not determine an answer, when I asked them why they brand there leds as producing better bud they said that to them it looks better, to which I said looks are not everything, to which the guy on the phone said and I quote "maybe not to you, but to most people looks equal top quality"
> 
> So has anyone ever tested there bud side by side with HID grown bud to prove up that LED is better??





Grapefruit grown under HIDs (2x400W HPS) with 100W LED supplemental light + 125W reptile lamp (the plant was getting roughly 1/3 of all lights)


Here is a clone from that same plant, now grown under 135W LED (blackstar 240). I got almost 3 oz from the HID one, PREMIUM taste, I am curious to see if this one can even taste better, I am hoping to get 1 1/2 oz from it but it would have to grow some more, ... looks like an oz right now.



so if you do the math, 1.5 oz for 135watt or 3oz for 350W ...(just approximate numbers...) it looks like my gram per watt ratio will be better with the LEDs... and if it taste better as well, that would be the difference between LED and HID... lots of room for improvement in both setups but this is just my take on it


----------



## Endur0xX (Jan 23, 2012)

I forgot to say, ... It seems to me like LEDs are maturing the buds faster ... waiting to see if other people are experiencing the same thing.


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 23, 2012)

What about density?


----------



## Endur0xX (Jan 23, 2012)

I only harvested 2 small plant flowered under LEDs so far... the plants had a really tough life and I fucked up big time. 1 of the 2 plants was not nearly ready, the other one was really dense potent tasty buds... only got 1/2oz though... the Grapefruit right now seem to have really nice buds, not fluffy at all, very tight


----------



## WeedKillsBrainCells (Jan 23, 2012)

I must be smoking crack ex coz u lost me when you said 3 ozs for 350w. I read 2x 400w 100w and125? What do you mean third of light


----------



## Endur0xX (Jan 23, 2012)

there was 3 plants in the room... I mean the whole plant was not getting all of the light. I had a big hole in my screen with light but no plant and some of the light was being wasted on shitty clones as well so the plant was not getting the whole 1000W to itself capitch?I got 9 oz total from the 3 plants and I know it's nothing special but it was my first successful grow and its A1 quality.

And I am only saying what I am seeing in my gardens at the moment.. it seems like I will get more buds per watt in my LED cabinet than in my HID room. I am unsure yet...


----------



## WeedKillsBrainCells (Jan 23, 2012)

Id be happy with 9 oz as long as you get more than you paid for electricity then its all good
i think an led light makes a scrog look even prettier

do we know that uv really helps? i think thats what you meant with reptile lamp. i havent researched much but some people are saying its snake oil


----------



## Endur0xX (Jan 23, 2012)

well snake oil or not, it's cheap and it makes me happy, worth every penny!!


----------



## bb419 (Jan 23, 2012)

Anybody know why the blackstar lights (500)labeled "cree" are sold for $740 at growsmart http://www.growsmarthydroponics.com/500w-Blackstar-Ultra-Violet-LED-Grow-Light-Cree-3-watt-LEDs-_p_9092.html, 

yet all the other 500 models that aren't labeled cree are sold for $549?

Seems way to high to be the same light with a markup...


----------



## ledgrowing (Jan 23, 2012)

anyone know what happen to maxpresh? did he ever make his light or was it just hogwash?


----------



## curly604 (Jan 23, 2012)

heres his new thread , he seems to be acting pretty shaddy not telling anyone his light ratio among other things .... most if not all companies will give you that kind of info ..... i guess if what he says is true we will all see .... lol 

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/485489-new-led-not-15.html


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 24, 2012)

Ok, so it looks like I lied. The trichs are ambering faster than anticipated, so the plants will come down in about 12 hours as originally planned.





[video=youtube;qzf2pR31bzM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzf2pR31bzM[/video]


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 24, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> @backwood - I have never myself grown the same genetics side by side under LED and HPS, but that is what the next round holds, so I hope here in about 8 weeks we will have the answer of the differences between the two lighting systems.
> @PSUAGRO - Which link is not working (which post #)? Thank you much lad and glad to see your presence back on the thread.



Awesome, I cant wait to see the results


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 24, 2012)

Endur0xX said:


> there was 3 plants in the room... I mean the whole plant was not getting all of the light. I had a big hole in my screen with light but no plant and some of the light was being wasted on shitty clones as well so the plant was not getting the whole 1000W to itself capitch?I got 9 oz total from the 3 plants and I know it's nothing special but it was my first successful grow and its A1 quality.
> 
> And I am only saying what I am seeing in my gardens at the moment.. it seems like I will get more buds per watt in my LED cabinet than in my HID room. I am unsure yet...


It might be cheep to run but if one plants space yields 1.5 oz in 3 months and another yeilds 3oz in the same time in the same size of space then which is better? you might save some money in electricity each month but it will take twice as many months for the LED to catch up with the HID, just what i have observed reading up on LED grows, so like I have said before GPW is only one part of the equation you also have to look at your Yeild per foot, most LED plants barley hit half of the Gram per Meter squared formats. Note trying to start shit, just trying to get the whole facts.


----------



## PrezDickie (Jan 24, 2012)

dying to see those final numbers and maybe a shot of your girls naked so we can see total bud growth all over


----------



## Endur0xX (Jan 24, 2012)

cabinet is less than half the size of the room...just to experiment with LEDs... and it's not one or the other, both were running at the same time


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Jan 24, 2012)

@wejuana...post#1259.......no matter saw your new vid^^^^

Which led are putting up against the HPS??? sorry if this was asked already....
be safe ...happy growing..


----------



## maps84 (Jan 24, 2012)

Well newer models of LED are getting better and better, there is an UFO already putting out more PAR rating than a 400W HPS (290 PAR watts vs 110 of HPS) plus 12000 Lumen that's outstanding for a light that really draws 90W, I'm doing a test run as I want to see if this lights are able to grow buds. They already grow plants better than Metal Halide IMHO. Check it at my sig.


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 24, 2012)

yea Im realy happy with my solar storm and daystar LED there both kicking some serios ass!! in veg right now cant wait to bloom with them a couple more weeks!!!


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 24, 2012)

maps84 said:


> Well newer models of LED are getting better and better, there is an UFO already putting out more PAR rating than a 400W HPS (290 PAR watts vs 110 of HPS) plus 12000 Lumen that's outstanding for a light that really draws 90W, I'm doing a test run as I want to see if this lights are able to grow buds. They already grow plants better than Metal Halide IMHO. Check it at my sig.


?? What the help are smoking, par- photo active radiation, is a measurement of active light wavelengths, while i have seen many LED system with a higher red band par rating there is still no evidence to support that an enhanced par spectrum not backed by intensity is of any additional value. And growth vs MH is a big claim cause it all depends on what size light u use, i can say for sure my 600 mh will beat any current 90 watt led system no questions asked.
but i really hope that in the future it could be, cause damns that would be sweet.
edit: a 400 hps puts out 55,000 lumen so yea the led might have better par rating but still dosent have the intensity to stack those heavy buds, also most led light have a shitty penetrating rating but that can be overcome by scroging so its a wash.


----------



## maps84 (Jan 24, 2012)

I can't agree just yet, I'm very skeptical my light would outdo a HPS in flowering thus the test, but you don't have to scrog if not wanted just pick nice stocky bushy strains and grow single colas. Furthermore I've proven to myself LED is better for vegging than any other indoor light source (I don't know yet about Plasma). It's like you think I don't still use MH to compare for myself....Anyways I'm not trying to impose, if you wanna know for real, try it.


----------



## backwood grower (Jan 25, 2012)

maps84 said:


> I can't agree just yet, I'm very skeptical my light would outdo a HPS in flowering thus the test, but you don't have to scrog if not wanted just pick nice stocky bushy strains and grow single colas. Furthermore I've proven to myself LED is better for vegging than any other indoor light source (I don't know yet about Plasma). It's like you think I don't still use MH to compare for myself....Anyways I'm not trying to impose, if you wanna know for real, try it.


The only thing holding me back is the upfront cost, also answer me this, under my 600 i have vegged 20 plants for 6 weeks in 3 gallon pots with out issue, can one 90 watt led system do that?

Edit: forgot to mention, Plasma is meh at best, one light will do a 3X3 zone at around the same intensity as a 600watt dual arc bulb, but in flower it just dosnt have the penetration, and that is still where LED falls flat, its drop off per foot is far greater than HID or MI. One of these days Ill try an LED system but since the difference between my 1000 watt and a 200ish watt system is only about 40 bucks a month and I allready have a HID system its not really worth it


----------



## maps84 (Jan 25, 2012)

No, but it can't cover my 2 x 2 space either get it?


----------



## srambo (Jan 25, 2012)

Hi people, you wrote tons of info but i'm too high to read all this at the moment. Please tell me did you got any results (what page) or it's still not done.
thanks!


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 25, 2012)

Round 2 has been successfully harvested. Update via video or pics will be posted tomorrow. For not its time to hit some scissor hash n get some shut eye.


----------



## WeedKillsBrainCells (Jan 25, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Round 2 has been successfully harvested. Update via video or pics will be posted tomorrow. For not its time to hit some scissor hash n get some shut eye.


lucky pup 
cant wait to see results


----------



## WeedKillsBrainCells (Jan 25, 2012)

backwood grower said:


> The only thing holding me back is the upfront cost, also answer me this, under my 600 i have vegged 20 plants for 6 weeks in 3 gallon pots with out issue, can one 90 watt led system do that?
> 
> Edit: forgot to mention, Plasma is meh at best, one light will do a 3X3 zone at around the same intensity as a 600watt dual arc bulb, but in flower it just dosnt have the penetration, and that is still where LED falls flat, its drop off per foot is far greater than HID or MI. One of these days Ill try an LED system but since the difference between my 1000 watt and a 200ish watt system is only about 40 bucks a month and I allready have a HID system its not really worth it


a 600 for me is $150 a month just for 12/12
youre a lucky pup. europe as shitty prices compared to you guys for electricity and general price of living. thats whats makes LED more of a real option for me. Still.. I can get cfl's of the same wattage and probably similar results for much cheaper


----------



## Endur0xX (Jan 25, 2012)

I said on this thread that I thought my LEDs were maturing the buds faster, and I would like to say that this was false, I realised today that they went into flower a bit earlier than I thought and so they are gonna be ready just on time.


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 25, 2012)

u guys ever switch back to veg for 48 hours to trick the plants and increase yeild? at what point of flowering should i do this?


----------



## curly604 (Jan 25, 2012)

..... i wouldnt recomend it , might make them hermie from the stress.


----------



## Heretic (Jan 25, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> u guys ever switch back to veg for 48 hours to trick the plants and increase yeild? at what point of flowering should i do this?


Never heard about that. Only going dark for a couple days at the end.


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 25, 2012)

even if there female seeds


----------



## WeedKillsBrainCells (Jan 25, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> u guys ever switch back to veg for 48 hours to trick the plants and increase yeild? at what point of flowering should i do this?


wherever you heard that its wrong
only time you should be switching back to veg is if youre re-vegging, which takes long than 48 hrs
48 hrs of complete darkness maybe youre thinking of


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 25, 2012)

[video=youtube;eqQ7aYJ77iU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQ7aYJ77iU[/video]
Buds are hung as such:
Left - Spectra
Middle - Blackstar
Right - Penetrator


----------



## Shwagbag (Jan 25, 2012)

Great trial man, very nice booty. Looks like you're going to be high for awhile lol. What are your thoughts regarding the lights at this point, pros and cons?


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 25, 2012)

Thank you kindly. I can barely wait to start burning this stuff!

Honestly, I want to wait until I sample the yield before I make a determination regarding the lights, because at this point, looks wise they are all quite similar. I did notice that trimming the plants from the Blackstar tent was noticeably easier to trim, as there was less leaf growth overall, which was also confirmed by the other trimmer (possibly attributed to the intense pinkish hue). Other than then that, the smell was so strong I couldn't clearly smell any differences between the tent, and they all looked caked in trichs and relatively similar in size, buds etc as far as the bushes hanging as you can see in the video update.

Pros and cons between the lights..

I'd say the Spectras, with the whitest hue makes seeing the actual colors of the plant, and color of the trichs easier in comparison to the other 2 lights.
The Penetrator, with its size and lenses makes makes for the best coverage and very uniformed in comparison to the other 2 lights.
And the Blackstar appeared to produce a better bud to leaf ratio in comparison to the other 2 lights.


----------



## jammin screw (Jan 25, 2012)

man bro she right....... lookin forward to the pics after dry/cure........ i'd be starin at my buds and rubbin my hands together like its dinner time ... peace


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Jan 25, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Thank you kindly. I can barely wait to start burning this stuff!
> 
> Honestly, I want to wait until I sample the yield before I make a determination regarding the lights, because at this point, looks wise they are all quite similar. I did notice that trimming the plants from the Blackstar tent was noticeably easier to trim, as there was less leaf growth overall, which was also confirmed by the other trimmer (possibly attributed to the intense pinkish hue). Other than then that, the smell was so strong I couldn't clearly smell any differences between the tent, and they all looked caked in trichs and relatively similar in size, buds etc as far as the bushes hanging as you can see in the video update.
> 
> ...


So basically the BLACKSTAR won...............because i don't see 2.5xtimes the bud on the other stalks(lol)/ nice dry method BTW.....


----------



## maps84 (Jan 26, 2012)

PSUAGRO. said:


> So basically the BLACKSTAR won...............because i don't see 2.5xtimes the bud on the other stalks(lol)/ nice dry method BTW.....


Blackstar won at the start of this thread... He's comparing a Premium 520W actual draw light vs a 300W at most from Blackstar that's a quarter of the price... I suggested him to get 4 UFO blackstars of 135W each (380W total) and still 60% cheaper and bet my balls it could out perform the penetrators. At the cost of the HLG yo can get 12,2 UFO lights .... one for each plant and possibly out yield a 1000W HPS as it'd be 146.400 lumen at 22" I can't imagine the PAR. xD

My new 135W measures 12000 Lumens peak at 12" and 290 PAR watts.


----------



## KUShSOurSMOKEr (Jan 26, 2012)

we juana u gotta love the bloom bastic huh ?!!


----------



## puffenuff (Jan 26, 2012)

maps84 said:


> Blackstar won at the start of this thread... He's comparing a Premium 520W actual draw light vs a 300W at most from Blackstar that's a quarter of the price... I suggested him to get 4 UFO blackstars of 135W each (380W total) and still 60% cheaper and bet my balls it could out perform the penetrators. At the cost of the HLG yo can get 12,2 UFO lights .... one for each plant and possibly out yield a 1000W HPS as it'd be 146.400 lumen at 22" I can't imagine the PAR. xD
> 
> My new 135W measures 12000 Lumens peak at 22" and 290 PAR watts.


I thought all the leds were close to the same wattage, around 300?


----------



## maps84 (Jan 26, 2012)

That's right. what did you think that they run the gear 100%? all 3w chips pull less than 3w that is just the way it is. Most 3w chips actually pull 1.4w while blackstar pulls 1.6w. The reason is that the efficiency constantly gets higher. The 1w chips from 3 years ago used to pull 1w and now pull .62w thing is they are 18% brighter than they were back then and pull less wattage. Due to this, the advertised wattage is the same. A 3w chip is a 3w chip


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 26, 2012)

maps84 said:


> Blackstar won at the start of this thread... He's comparing a Premium 520W actual draw light vs a 300W at most from Blackstar that's a quarter of the price


To correct you, all wattage draws are between 300-360 watts on these current lights.


----------



## curly604 (Jan 26, 2012)

yeild looks pretty good man how far did ya hang the lights above the canopy again?


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 26, 2012)

yea the blackstar 900 watt pulls 550 actual watts he was using the 500


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## WeJuana (Jan 26, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> yea the blackstar 900 watt pulls 550 actual watts he was using the 500


The canopy ended up about 14-16" from the light


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 26, 2012)

how far should the canopy be from the light with the 500 or the 900?


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## WeJuana (Jan 26, 2012)

I personally suggest 12-24" depending on the size of footprint needed. I have seen some go as close as 6-8" and not have not have too much bleaching, but a little seems to occur.


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 28, 2012)

[video=youtube;_MJLh-wGPp4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MJLh-wGPp4[/video]


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Jan 28, 2012)

...i'm going off the rails! nice vid Wej =D


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Jan 28, 2012)

Thats it! I'm driving over and gonna sit down right by that qrazy bitch and sniff her up and down/down and up(you get it)...........

Just send me directions and ill start driving.........ha...

Seriously she looks awesome.....


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 28, 2012)

@Psy - Thanks man! I was actually going to apologize for the shakiness and not editing it out but I was unusually stoned to say the least haha

@Psu -Take your first left, followed by 3 more lefts, 3 rights, and itl be the 2nd house on the left. You should smell if your at the right place haha. Thank you much! 

These ladies were thirsting for water bad when I chopped them, much more than the previous round, and as a result I think tonight they may be ready for their manicure. I'll know here in a few hours..


----------



## jammin screw (Jan 28, 2012)

Daaaaammmmnnn!(smokie's voice)that is niiiiice.... She's pretty... Gotta love them colors homes....


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 29, 2012)

*ROUND 2 LA CONFIDENTIAL YIELD:*

Blackstar (2 Plants) = 137.2 grams
Spectra (2 Plants) = 147.1 grams
Penetrator (2 Plants) = 153.1 grams

Total = 437.4 grams = 15.6 oz. My goal was a lb, but I can't complain because I wasn't too far from it. Next round with the Qrazy Trains should yield better from the looks of the test plant.

Im so drained from trimming but ill post up pics tomorrow!


----------



## puffenuff (Jan 30, 2012)

great job WeJuana! Pretty much what i expected from each light in terms of which produced more. Can't wait to see how much you pull from the qrazy train. Let us know what you think in terms of quality of smoke and/or bag appeal!


----------



## hippy132 (Jan 30, 2012)

Great job,

Any formula for success you would like to share, maybe if you would review the temps, humid and feedings.


----------



## puffenuff (Jan 30, 2012)

i think a short review would be a great thing to add, including the info from above and height of the lights too!


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Jan 30, 2012)

excellent job WeJuana, we all have much to thank you for here


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Jan 30, 2012)

Psytranceorgy said:


> excellent job WeJuana, we all have much to thank you for here


I second this...........


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 30, 2012)

Thank you all very much!

Okay so I used this feeding chart (as a guide) with these nutes:
[video=youtube;vvRzy5kzwvc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvRzy5kzwvc[/video]

Temperature: 67-77 Fahrenheit
Relative Humidity: 40-60%
CO2 PPM : 1400
Light Height: 14-18" from canopy
Watering PH: 6.0-7.0. I make sure to wait til the plants look noticeably thirsty before watering.

Let me know if yall have any other specific questions!


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 30, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> *ROUND 2 LA CONFIDENTIAL YIELD:*
> 
> Blackstar (2 Plants) = 137.2 grams
> Spectra (2 Plants) = 147.1 grams
> ...



man so close thats awsome!


----------



## hippy132 (Jan 30, 2012)

did you find yourself watering every four days or more as rule? does everyone flush for two weeks and after flush how long to need water again (flush= 3 times normal nutrient watering , plain water)?

Can you send me copy of your chart?

Thanks


----------



## WeedKillsBrainCells (Jan 30, 2012)

can we get the chart picture the old fashioned way .jpg thanks


----------



## dickkhead (Jan 31, 2012)

On the 2nd round how big we're your pots? An how long did you veg for?


----------



## Shwagbag (Jan 31, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> did you find yourself watering every four days or more as rule? does everyone flush for two weeks and after flush how long to need water again (flush= 3 times normal nutrient watering , plain water)?
> 
> Can you send me copy of your chart?
> 
> Thanks





WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> can we get the chart picture the old fashioned way .jpg thanks





dickkhead said:


> On the 2nd round how big we're your pots? An how long did you veg for?


You can use full screen video and then the print screen keystroke to do that


----------



## srambo (Jan 31, 2012)

Hi people!

I'm searching of comparison LED to HPS and remember i've read it in this thread about plans to compare, but lately you changed your mind? Or i missed something 

Thanks!


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Jan 31, 2012)

Pretty good haul their Wejuana........
With the results in i"m intrigued by what the (3w) version of the penetrator would've done.......


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 31, 2012)

Spectra





















Penetrator





















Blackstar


----------



## WeJuana (Jan 31, 2012)

srambo said:


> Hi people!
> 
> I'm searching of comparison LED to HPS and remember i've read it in this thread about plans to compare, but lately you changed your mind? Or i missed something
> 
> Thanks!


Still in the works! Things take a while to get done, especially with descent harvest in addition to the garden, and all other general responsibilities of life. I will update as to a start date soon.



Shwagbag said:


> You can use full screen video and then the print screen keystroke to do that
> 
> View attachment 2030199



Thank you for posting that for me!



dickkhead said:


> On the 2nd round how big we're your pots? An how long did you veg for?


The pots were 5 gal smart pots and I vegged for 4 weeks.

@Hippy - Watering every 4-7 days as needed.


----------



## WeJuana (Feb 2, 2012)

Smoke is real good so far but it should be better here in a few days. 


I am going to do a blind taste test with 2 people who aren't going to know which bud is which, or even the potential lights which grew them. 


This should prove an for a fair and unbiased smoke report.
A few more days curing and then I will hold the smoke report sesh and report the findings.


----------



## WeJuana (Feb 4, 2012)

Round 3 clones have been taken and have started rooting. After 4 weeks or so of veg they should be ready to enter into the tents


Next round is:


Blackstar 900w 
VS 
(3) Spectra 120w's 
VS
Penetrator 336X-PRO (3w Version)
VS
600w HPS (Horilux Eye buld & Blockbuster Hood)


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Feb 5, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Round 3 clones have been taken and have started rooting. After 4 weeks or so of veg they should be ready to enter into the tents
> 
> 
> Next round is:
> ...


wow serious setups going on here..............this is the one to watch.......have fun wejuana..


----------



## jcgts2001 (Feb 5, 2012)

134 pages of post read, I forgot why I came in here. Oh yeah, awesome grow/test! I am new to the forum, well new to post. I don't grow cannabis but I do use LED's I have had phenomenal results from the blackstar line of LED lights, can't beat the price, especially if you order 12 units, the guys at gotham gave me a very good price on the new 90w Veg UFO's. Thanks for your hard work and awesome posts, maybe someday I will grow my own cannabis.


----------



## WeJuana (Feb 5, 2012)

jcgts2001 said:


> 134 pages of post read, I forgot why I came in here. Oh yeah, awesome grow/test! I am new to the forum, well new to post. I don't grow cannabis but I do use LED's I have had phenomenal results from the blackstar line of LED lights, can't beat the price, especially if you order 12 units, the guys at gotham gave me a very good price on the new 90w Veg UFO's. Thanks for your hard work and awesome posts, maybe someday I will grow my own cannabis.


Its definitely a lot a reading! haha I do appreciate both your post and you being here reading the thread! Cheers


----------



## Psytranceorgy (Feb 5, 2012)

PSUAGRO. said:


> wow serious setups going on here..............this is the one to watch.......have fun wejuana..


indeed! /giggles with excitement lol


----------



## Senseimilla (Feb 5, 2012)

Excited to see next comparison! Great job with the first


----------



## dickkhead (Feb 5, 2012)

That sounds like an awesome comparison can't wait! You ever consider the day starOr solar storm up against those? How much heat do you think that 600 hps will put off?


----------



## Senseimilla (Feb 5, 2012)

I'd love to see you run against the advanced diamond series 600w light -- that's the light i wanted to buy before I ended up getting standard hid anyway


----------



## puffenuff (Feb 5, 2012)

Looking forward to the new comparison! Should be awesome as well. Will you be starting a new thread for this one or continuing here?


----------



## maps84 (Feb 5, 2012)

Wejuana why not do a comparison between actual watt draw and not models... about the HPS 600 you've gotta be kidding me! None of this units will come close in yield nor coverage in what might be several years.


----------



## Endur0xX (Feb 5, 2012)

I sure hope that the blackstar will yield a lot more than the 600Whps, otherwise, whats the point of LEDs!! Thanks for doing this Wej, it will help me decide what to do next...


----------



## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 5, 2012)

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard


----------



## Senseimilla (Feb 5, 2012)

Endur0xX said:


> I sure hope that the blackstar will yield a lot more than the 600Whps, otherwise, whats the point of LEDs!! Thanks for doing this Wej, it will help me decide what to do next...


The 900w blackstar I believe is rated under 600w (i think 5 hundred something). The point of LEDs has never been to yield more than the comparable wattage HID (though that would be nice) -- the point of the LEDs is to provide the optimal spectrum for growth without near as much heat. It's about bud quality not quantity.


----------



## Shwagbag (Feb 5, 2012)

Endur0xX said:


> I sure hope that the blackstar will yield a lot more than the 600Whps, otherwise, whats the point of LEDs!! Thanks for doing this Wej, it will help me decide what to do next...


Considering its not uncommon to pull a pound from a 600 that blackstar best be dialed in


----------



## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 5, 2012)

Shwagbag said:


> Considering its not uncommon to pull a pound from a 600 that blackstar best be dialed in


With the standard four week veg?


----------



## srambo (Feb 5, 2012)

weejuana whats the draw wattage of 900 blackstar? Why you changed from 600 BS?


----------



## Shwagbag (Feb 5, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> With the standard four week veg?


That would depend on a lot of factors. My money is on the 600 for bud mass, density and yield.it will be fun to watch  I love shit like this lol.


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## dickkhead (Feb 5, 2012)

The 900 watt bs is 550 actual watts and it's actually 288 3 watt chips so it's not a full 900 watts it's 848 which is close enough I guess. I believe to get hps results you should match watt for watt! actual draw


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## PrezDickie (Feb 6, 2012)

hey guys i just wanted to share the latest intel with you, as you've seen from this thread Blackstar makes a good light for the price, but they are tying to up their game. They just released a new chrome series and i've got pics in the LED users unite forum 

https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/240615-led-users-unite-506.html#post7068764

i just got the new 4 spot led of the series they aren't even listed on the website last time i checked, they are that new


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## WeJuana (Feb 6, 2012)

srambo said:


> weejuana whats the draw wattage of 900 blackstar? Why you changed from 600 BS?


I changed to try and up the wattage to fairly compare against the HPS. I was originally using a Blackstar 500w, not 600w.



Endur0xX said:


> I sure hope that the blackstar will yield a lot more than the 600Whps, otherwise, whats the point of LEDs!! Thanks for doing this Wej, it will help me decide what to do next...


Quality of course, my good sir! But I hope the yield is comparable as well.



maps84 said:


> Wejuana why not do a comparison between actual watt draw and not models... about the HPS 600 you've gotta be kidding me! None of this units will come close in yield nor coverage in what might be several years.


As there is no standard in wattage draws among companies, that proves hard to do. Each light made by each different company has a different wattage draw.

My goal was to try to compare similar wattage draw units. HPS > 600. Blackstar > 550. Penetrator > 520. Spectra > 400.


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## dickkhead (Feb 7, 2012)

This is going to be a great grow comparison I can't wait!


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## maps84 (Feb 7, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> As there is no standard in wattage draws among companies, that proves hard to do. Each light made by each different company has a different wattage draw.
> 
> My goal was to try to compare similar wattage draw units. HPS > 600. Blackstar > 550. Penetrator > 520. Spectra > 400.


Kill-A-Watt Meter  I'm not even asking for PAR measures


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## WeJuana (Feb 8, 2012)

maps84 said:


> Kill-A-Watt Meter  I'm not even asking for PAR measures


Ill definitely be doing pics with actual wattage draw as with the previous rounds.


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## bigbud0023 (Feb 10, 2012)

So out of these lights, which do you think is the best one? I am going to get LED soon, but there is so much mixed info out there.

Thanks


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## PSUAGRO. (Feb 10, 2012)

bigbud0023 said:


> So out of these lights, which do you think is the best one? I am going to get LED soon, but there is so much mixed info out there.
> 
> Thanks


Keep watching will all find out together...................


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## WeJuana (Feb 10, 2012)

3 nugs, 1 of each light, was given to a blind sampler who knew nothing about the lights or why or how yield is different from eachother. The bags were labeled 1, 2, and 3, and given to a sampler with 3 identical smoke report papers labeled 1, 2 and 3 with the ratings reflecting as below:

Blackstar
SMOKE REPORT

Potency
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <8> 9 10
Taste
1 2 3 4 5 6 <7> 8 9 10

Smoothness (1 = harsh 10 = smooth)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 <10>

Indica Influence
1 2 3 4 5 6 <7> 8 9 10

Sativa Influence
1 2 <3> 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Effect Onset (1 = immediate 10 = super creeper)
<1> 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Duration (In hours)
1 2 <3> 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Overall Satisfaction
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <8> 9 10

Spectra
SMOKE REPORT

Potency
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 <9> 10
Taste
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <8> 9 10

Smoothness (1 = harsh 10 = smooth)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 <10>

Indica Influence
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <8> 9 10

Sativa Influence
1 <2> 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Effect Onset (1 = immediate 10 = super creeper)
<1> 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Duration (In hours)
1 2 <3> 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Overall Satisfaction
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <8> 9 10

Penetrator
SMOKE REPORT

Potency
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <8> 9 10
Taste
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <8> 9 10

Smoothness (1 = harsh 10 = smooth)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 <10>

Indica Influence
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <8> 9 10

Sativa Influence
1 <2> 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Effect Onset (1 = immediate 10 = super creeper)
<1> 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Duration (In hours)
1 2 <3> 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Overall Satisfaction
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <8> 9 10


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## cannabuilding (Feb 11, 2012)

Nice smoke report Wej, the second round had some nice awesome nugz, Keep up the good work man, Much appreciated and i hope the others appreciate the hard work he has put into this threads. 

Wondering what colour the majority of the trichs are with the above smoke report, Mostly amber? or 50/50 amber cloudy?

Peace to all, and happy growing.


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## PetFlora (Feb 11, 2012)

Not surprised at the similar results. Until LEDs are designed so that the user can control the amount of R/B in veg/flower (and the ability to introduce IR separately) LEDs will lack the mastery of what makes for excellent results. Until that time comes I'm sticking with HO T5s using aquarium bulbs, which are available in LED like spectrums, but that can be changed in/out with the twist of the wrist, giving the user control of R/B/IR + greater coverage for less money


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## dickkhead (Feb 11, 2012)

PetFlora said:


> Not surprised at the similar results. Until LEDs are designed so that the user can control the amount of R/B in veg/flower (and the ability to introduce IR separately) LEDs will lack the mastery of what makes for excellent results. Until that time comes I'm sticking with HO T5s using aquarium bulbs, which are available in LED like spectrums, but that can be changed in/out with the twist of the wrist, giving the user control of R/B/IR + greater coverage for less money


They do have LEDs you can custome design from china actually not sure about quality though!
how many watts are your t5's, what's the bulb life, heat out put, and what are you pulling off of these?


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## dickkhead (Feb 11, 2012)

And the solar storm has a veg and flower mode and UVB switch on it that they reccomend u switch in the last 3 weeks of flower. I'm doing a growers feed back program using it and it's kicking ass in veg right now I'm a week away from flower so well see how it does!?


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## puffenuff (Feb 11, 2012)

PetFlora said:


> \Until LEDs are designed so that the user can control the amount of R/B in veg/flower (and the ability to introduce IR separately) LEDs will lack the mastery of what makes for excellent results.


Sorry, Petflora, but I'm going to need you to explain yourself on this one...There are led arrays that do exactly this available now, some in limited fashion with different switches and modes, but some have a full on control knobs where you can fine tune the color ratios. And there are IR led spotlights that you can add separately so, yeah, if you want a link to some let me know. Even without that ability, it is still easy to achieve excellent results and there are plenty of led users in this thread alone to prove it, so for you to say they lack the mastery needed to do so is, in my opinion, way off.


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## WeJuana (Feb 11, 2012)

@canna - Thank you! I forgot to mention, if anyone can think of another good category to add to the smoke report please let me know and ill put it on the next one.
@Pet - I'm about to start experimenting with different bulbs! Up til now I have just been vegging using 6500k but I have my spectrum selected and am excited to see if there's a noticeable difference in growth


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## PSUAGRO. (Feb 11, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> @canna - Thank you! I forgot to mention, if anyone can think of another good category to add to the smoke report please let me know and ill put it on the next one.
> @Pet - I'm about to start experimenting with different bulbs! Up til now I have just been vegging using 6500k but I have my spectrum selected and am excited to see if there's a noticeable difference in growth


What kind of T5 master mixture are you coming up with????????????


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## WeJuana (Feb 13, 2012)

I have not yet weighed it, as I am leaving it in the jar for 7 days sealed, but I will report weight once done. Here's whats left of one of the nugs I kept out for smokage in the meantime.


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## dickkhead (Feb 13, 2012)

those look nice!

was considering getting a t5 howmany actual watts do they draw? and whats the coverage on them


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Feb 13, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> I have not yet weighed it, as I am leaving it in the jar for 7 days sealed, but I will report weight once done. Here's whats left of one of the nugs I kept out for smokage in the meantime


i wish i had weed like this
in fact.. i wish i had weed period...


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## puffenuff (Feb 13, 2012)

Im salivating...beautiful pics, wejuana!


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## PSUAGRO. (Feb 13, 2012)

Damn I got to buy a new camera..........great stills Wejuana.......


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## dickkhead (Feb 13, 2012)

I cant wait for you next gro! you shoul talk to all the light manufacturers and hang the light at the reccomended distance for the best results IMO. I remeber you said you hung all of them i believe at 55 inches above the canopy? I talk to vic at gothem and he says for the best results on the bs they want to be 10, 12" above the canopy! I know it seems close but he swears that thi is what people doing feild studys specifically on cannibus have found with the bs. thats why I think it came in lacking the results your after Im not trying to defend the lights Im still yet to fire mine but wanted to let you know this so you can be benefitting from them as much as possible!


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## WeJuana (Feb 14, 2012)

The lights, in reality ended up being about 12-14" away from the canopy in the last grow, I will be more precise on this next one and take into account the suggested height for the lights.


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## dickkhead (Feb 15, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> The lights, in reality ended up being about 12-14" away from the canopy in the last grow, I will be more precise on this next one and take into account the suggested height for the lights.


nice! should make for a good comparison using the manufacturers specs! how did you like th ffof and there nutes? did you use the full line? like the sledge hammer bush doctor micorbe brew and kanga roots?


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## curly604 (Feb 17, 2012)

hows the crazy train looking wej almost dry and cured up? was it good tasing smoke? looks real nice man.


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## foreverflyhi (Feb 18, 2012)

NICE HARVEST!!!!! those nugs look dank. im also expecting dank nugs on my current grow =)


check out my current grow

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/512001-357-magnum-plus-led-600-a.html


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## dickkhead (Feb 19, 2012)

you should realy consider trying to apply for a gfp from for a solar storm i think its at the front of led technology i just entered bloom with it. but in veg its the closest to mh lighting ive seen yet just sayin....


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## WeJuana (Mar 16, 2012)

[video=youtube;FbTChaig1Cw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbTChaig1Cw[/video]


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## roachclip420 (Mar 16, 2012)

Diggin the new approach with the videos brother. Keep it comin


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## Psytranceorgy (Mar 16, 2012)

rock on Wejuana!!! much love =D


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## curly604 (Mar 16, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> you should realy consider trying to apply for a gfp from for a solar storm i think its at the front of led technology i just entered bloom with it. but in veg its the closest to mh lighting ive seen yet just sayin....


 if a company wanted a journal from me i would not do it for 50% of my money back in my opinion they should be sucking 50% of my dick if they dont want to send the panel for free ..... how the hell am i supposed to know this thing is gonna work .... and if it dosent im still stuck paying half .... no thank you. not saying anything about solar storm im sure there panels are ok havent heard to much about em but if your happy then thats a good sign .


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## WeJuana (Mar 16, 2012)

roachclip420 said:


> Diggin the new approach with the videos brother. Keep it comin


Thanks! I rented out my good camera so I wont have it for the next week. All these vids are being shot with a Sony NX5 which is why they look different and wider angled.


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## PSUAGRO. (Mar 16, 2012)

That's why your shots look so good.....Fuck I love those Sony nex cameras,oh yeah not mention your great photography skills....

Btw we've lost our ability to like anything on this site as of now


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## Psytranceorgy (Mar 16, 2012)

*Btw we've lost our ability to like anything on this site as of now*

/dislikes this ^^^


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## woodsusa (Mar 16, 2012)

Great thread WeJuana. You did an excellent job of documenting your grows. I feel much better about the 2 Blackstar LED lights I recently purchased. I've had plants in flower for about 2 weeks with them and so far everything looks good.


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## WeJuana (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks all! I'm glad it is as interesting to other people as I find it and I appreciate all the comments and input as always!

Glad your plants are doing well wood! What strain do you have going?


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## nasar (Mar 24, 2012)

Hey Wejuana it has been a long while since iv'e come back on RIU have been following your thread from start, as i haven't been active the pages have gone to 136 lol. I would like to know your results upto now from these 3 leds which has com on top? also how they comparing to HPS? in plant count are they good for full size plants or sog and scrog, would really appreciate your input, and yield info would be nice too.


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## Shwagbag (Mar 24, 2012)

nasar said:


> Hey Wejuana it has been a long while since iv'e come back on RIU have been following your thread from start, as i haven't been active the pages have gone to 136 lol. I would like to know your results upto now from these 3 leds which has com on top? also how they comparing to HPS? in plant count are they good for full size plants or sog and scrog, would really appreciate your input, and yield info would be nice too.


Its all here dude, with detail. Enjoy the reading.


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## nasar (Mar 24, 2012)

thanks i have read the recent posts to catch up, i would now like to see what they are compared to 600 watt HPS I can't wait for results. And the new black star CHROME should rock they look like a copy of the GLH, can't wait till they come on market properly and be used against other led manufactures.


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## nasar (Mar 24, 2012)

I would be happy if these black stars can grow full size 3 foot plants with a good foot print, as i would like to grow 60 plants, 3 sets of 20 plants perpetual cycle, or if they not good for full size plants i hope they can cover 3 4x4 flood and drain systems.

What lights, wattage and quantity would you recommend for full size plants or SOG?


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## Shwagbag (Mar 25, 2012)

nasar said:


> I would be happy if these black stars can grow full size 3 foot plants with a good foot print, as i would like to grow 60 plants, 3 sets of 20 plants perpetual cycle, or if they not good for full size plants i hope they can cover 3 4x4 flood and drain systems.
> 
> What lights, wattage and quantity would you recommend for full size plants or SOG?


The penetration on LED's is not really suited for 3 foot plants IMO, better off with traditional SoG plant sizes. You can grow plants that size but you may find yourself lollipopping most of the under foliage anyways as it probably won't produce to your expectations. Just my 2 cents.


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## supchaka (Mar 25, 2012)

What's his name... There's a dude on here running 2 500's blackstars, he has traditional looking big bushes and they seem great all the way down.


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## nasar (Mar 25, 2012)

Irish Boy has traditional bushes but he uses hgl 2 or 4 panels for 4 plants.

I would like to know whats the lighting for SOG method or any more powerful ones for traditional bushes.


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## nasar (Mar 25, 2012)

also how many panels would you recommend for a 4x4 table with approx 20 plants SOG or bushes lolly popped???


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## WeJuana (Mar 26, 2012)

nasar said:


> Hey Wejuana it has been a long while since iv'e come back on RIU have been following your thread from start, as i haven't been active the pages have gone to 136 lol. I would like to know your results upto now from these 3 leds which has com on top? also how they comparing to HPS? in plant count are they good for full size plants or sog and scrog, would really appreciate your input, and yield info would be nice too.


Hey nasar! Thanks so much for following along. To date, I have not decisively chosen a clear cut winner because each light is bringing something different to the table. When I harvest, I trim with a buddy who has no idea about the differences in growing methods to act as a blind sampler of sorts. 

The comments were that as of this last round of harvest (Qrazy Train) the Spectra tent seemed to produce more turpentines and trichs, the Blackstar was much more pistils and a very high bud to leaf ratio, and the Penetrator was highest yielding, beating 2nd place by about 12 grams. I don't recall the exact weight and I didnt record it, but I pulled about 8 oz off the 3 plants. I harvested a Confidential Cheese plant out of the Penetrator tent at the same time and the one plant yielded 140 grams dry, or 5 oz on the dot!

The HPS tent is going to be harvested sometime within this next week, and it will be the first plants which I harvest out of there. I have 3 different strains coming out which I never flowered before, so I will report on yield and smoke.

It depends on the type of LED you are running in that space. Which brand were you thinking?


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## WeJuana (Mar 26, 2012)

HPS Plants *harvesting soon*




































Aurora Indica HPS











Aurora Indica Spectra











Aurora Indica Blackstar











Aurora Indica Penetrator











Next round is looking good also.. Qrazy Train (Pictured) & Trinity Kush (Upper Deck).


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## PSUAGRO. (Mar 26, 2012)

Awesome job wejuana.......I would love to like you post..but you know how it is..wake up RIU, give us our button back...


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## Senseimilla (Mar 26, 2012)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Awesome job wejuana.......I would love to like you post..but you know how it is..wake up RIU, give us our button back...


I hear that soul sista!


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## WeJuana (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm right there with you! I would have liked both your and Sensemilla's posts but I am still unable..


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## BflexNJshore (Mar 27, 2012)

I got two blackstar 240 chromes on a light mover about 18 inches + or - apart. Supposedly they use 135 watts each. I switched from a 600 watt hps 3 weeks into veg, i think that was a mistake cuase one girl bit the dust and another looks stressed.


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## Psytranceorgy (Mar 27, 2012)

awesome looking pics/update WeJuana! thanks again for sharing your work


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## supchaka (Mar 27, 2012)

BflexNJshore said:


> I got two blackstar 240 chromes on a light mover about 18 inches + or - apart. Supposedly they use 135 watts each. I switched from a 600 watt hps 3 weeks into veg, i think that was a mistake cuase one girl bit the dust and another looks stressed.


Overwatering becomes an issue with LED, any chance of that?


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## Shwagbag (Mar 27, 2012)

BflexNJshore said:


> I got two blackstar 240 chromes on a light mover about 18 inches + or - apart. Supposedly they use 135 watts each. I switched from a 600 watt hps 3 weeks into veg, i think that was a mistake cuase one girl bit the dust and another looks stressed.


HPS is not a good veg light at all, opposite side of the spectrum. That combined with the difference in heat could easily stress the plants.


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## BflexNJshore (Mar 27, 2012)

Well thats an issue I am addressing. I have for my past three grows, and am currently using a "hybrid" NFT. I hate it, the contastant pH battle, water changes...UGGHHHHH! Its like getting married with no pre-nub, once they are in the fence post there is no going back. There is a few of us in the "True HP aero for 2011" thread that worked/working on misting-drain to waste systems.....which is the holy grail of growing as far as I am concerned...haha


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## BflexNJshore (Mar 27, 2012)

Shwagbag said:


> HPS is not a good veg light at all, opposite side of the spectrum. That combined with the difference in heat could easily stress the plants.


OPPS, I meant "3 weeks into _flowering"_...my bad and not a noob mistake.


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## wraffer (Mar 27, 2012)

hey guys
Firstly fair play weejuana top post and great test  can you (or anyone) tell me how the light penetration compares to a 600w? Is it poss to grow 1m high plants as you would with the hid? Would you say led lighting is now a viable replacement for 600's? A friend of mine is mad keen on getting one and has asked my opinion, looking into it everyone seems to be growing their plants smaller and was wondering if this was due to limitations of the light or just preferance/ other influence.
any feedback would be greatly appreciated


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## BflexNJshore (Mar 27, 2012)

wraffer said:


> hey guys
> Firstly fair play weejuana top post and great test  can you (or anyone) tell me how the light penetration compares to a 600w? Is it poss to grow 1m high plants as you would with the hid? Would you say led lighting is now a viable replacement for 600's? A friend of mine is mad keen on getting one and has asked my opinion, looking into it everyone seems to be growing their plants smaller and was wondering if this was due to limitations of the light or just preferance/ other influence.
> any feedback would be greatly appreciated


correct me if I am mistaken, the higher the watts of each LED diode the more penetration. The new blackstar chromes have 7 watt diodes vs 3 in the previous versions and 1 watt like alot of the even earlier LEDs from them and other companies. The lack of power consuption and production of heat really is a tremendous advantage IMHO.


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## wraffer (Mar 27, 2012)

BflexNJshore said:


> correct me if I am mistaken, the higher the watts of each LED diode the more penetration. The new blackstar chromes have 7 watt diodes vs 3 in the previous versions and 1 watt like alot of the even earlier LEDs from them and other companies. The lack of power consuption and production of heat really is a tremendous advantage IMHO.


Cool thanks v much will keep an eye out for them, do you know how far 3 watt diodes penatrate? From what im reading the advantages are a trade off for around 10% reduction in yeild, do you know if this is accurate? thanks for the help


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## puffenuff (Mar 27, 2012)

BflexNJshore said:


> correct me if I am mistaken, the higher the watts of each LED diode the more penetration. The new blackstar chromes have 7 watt diodes vs 3 in the previous versions and 1 watt like alot of the even earlier LEDs from them and other companies. The lack of power consuption and production of heat really is a tremendous advantage IMHO.


I was under the impression the new chromes were still 3w led diodes.


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## Shwagbag (Mar 27, 2012)

BflexNJshore said:


> correct me if I am mistaken, the higher the watts of each LED diode the more penetration. The new blackstar chromes have 7 watt diodes vs 3 in the previous versions and 1 watt like alot of the even earlier LEDs from them and other companies. The lack of power consuption and production of heat really is a tremendous advantage IMHO.


I would venture to guess the greater the lumens the greater the penetration. So no, the higher watts don't necessarily mean more penetration, they usually mean a wider footprint with LED's. Probably an increase in penetration in the core footprint though but no likely significant. The inverse square law applies to LED lights as well. So if you're running lights at 12-18" the intensity is going to me exponentially less under the canopy of a 24" plant. Shorter, wider plants are the way to go IMO, not just with LED but with any light.

More wattage per diode could very well mean more lumen output from a smaller footprint though, which could very well mean better penetration. There is a fine line in pushing these lights too hard though, Spectra learned that more watts aren't necessarily better. Sure the extra penetration is nice, but what good is it if its bleaching your plant tops and killing the foliage from too much intensity?


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## dickkhead (Mar 27, 2012)

the solar storm in veg kills the black star HO. im a lil annoyed how much stronger it is. I have 2 bs HO and they dont compare at all. its actually setting me back in my veg tent. im about to fire a t5 bad boy and i have a feeling that it will veg better then these HO


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## BflexNJshore (Mar 27, 2012)

puffenuff said:


> I was under the impression the new chromes were still 3w led diodes.


I was mistaken, they are 3 watts.


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## PSUAGRO. (Mar 27, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> the solar storm in veg kills the black star HO. im a lil annoyed how much stronger it is. I have 2 bs HO and they dont compare at all. its actually setting me back in my veg tent. im about to fire a t5 bad boy and i have a feeling that it will veg better then these HO


I see this as no big surprise considering the quality of the diodes alone...........


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## supchaka (Mar 27, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> the solar storm in veg kills the black star HO. im a lil annoyed how much stronger it is. I have 2 bs HO and they dont compare at all. its actually setting me back in my veg tent. im about to fire a t5 bad boy and i have a feeling that it will veg better then these HO


Correct me if my data is wrong here. Doesn't this solar storm put out more than double the wattage of 2 500 blackstars? I believe it also costs 4 times as much. It's like complaining that a vette beat ur Hyundai in a drag race.


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## Mohican (Mar 27, 2012)

Two Hyundais


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## wraffer (Mar 28, 2012)

cool well i think im gonna have to test a led and see how i get on, will run a led and a 600 and compare, any reccomandations on make? blackstar ok? was thinking of the 5 or 600w one.


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## Senseimilla (Mar 28, 2012)

The 500w one is the sweet point on price over the 600w, though I went the route of going with 2 x 240ws to get better coverage. LEDs aren't great for sidelighting (or penetration) in general. They also have a new chrome series one with 7w LEDs you might want to look into too but it's real new so no grow results yet


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## wraffer (Mar 28, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> The 500w one is the sweet point on price over the 600w, though I went the route of going with 2 x 240ws to get better coverage. LEDs aren't great for sidelighting (or penetration) in general. They also have a new chrome series one with 7w LEDs you might want to look into too but it's real new so no grow results yet


Thanks matey i was sort of thinking that they wernt that great for penetration as all the pics and vids i keep finding are of smaller plants. Be interesting when the 7w diodes are more widely used i think leds are definatley going in the right direction thats for sure


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## supchaka (Mar 28, 2012)

I wholeheartedly believe led are more than capable to replace any other light for vegging. I would take a bs240 to veg plants over my 600mh, partially for the power savings, but mainly because I know it can do the job.


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## curly604 (Mar 28, 2012)

i hear ya sup , my lights i have now from vipar led are kicking some serius ass in veg right now but i got a good feeling about flower coming up too come check my sig


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## puffenuff (Mar 28, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> The 500w one is the sweet point on price over the 600w, though I went the route of going with 2 x 240ws to get better coverage. LEDs aren't great for sidelighting (or penetration) in general. They also have a new chrome series one with 7w LEDs you might want to look into too but it's real new so no grow results yet





wraffer said:


> Thanks matey i was sort of thinking that they wernt that great for penetration as all the pics and vids i keep finding are of smaller plants. Be interesting when the 7w diodes are more widely used i think leds are definatley going in the right direction thats for sure


Pretty sure they don't use 7w diodes...in fact I've never seen or heard of any led grow lights that do. Where did you guys hear this from?


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## wraffer (Mar 28, 2012)

puffenuff said:


> Pretty sure they don't use 7w diodes...in fact I've never seen or heard of any led grow lights that do. Where did you guys hear this from?


ive just been told about them from a couple of guys on here but cant find anything greater than 5w on the net lol


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## wraffer (Mar 28, 2012)

supchaka said:


> I wholeheartedly believe led are more than capable to replace any other light for vegging. I would take a bs240 to veg plants over my 600mh, partially for the power savings, but mainly because I know it can do the job.


rreaaalllyy???  thats very interesting, am about to use a 600mh to veg my next crop, do they still gain the same height under the bs?


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## Mohican (Mar 28, 2012)

My Kessil is frying my plant. It is making my Sativa a squat litle bush. I think it is penetrating the floor!


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## Mohican (Mar 28, 2012)

I am running it in veg with 2 6500K 110W CFLs


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## wraffer (Mar 28, 2012)

ooo so how long has that been under your kessil? are you going to flower under led too? was just thinking that it would be cool to have it bushing in veg, then flowering under hps would really be mental


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## Mohican (Mar 28, 2012)

I know! I keep seeing 600W and 1000W HPS results and I wonder if I am wasting my time. But this Kessil is doing a great job and no heat. I am only growing one personal plant and so I think the heat and overkill of an HPS right now would be, well, overkill. I will put link up here so you can see my growing pains with this plant and light.


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## Mohican (Mar 28, 2012)

Here is a link to the page with my Journal within Lordjins Journal:

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/499906-larry-og-vs-tahoe-og-193.html


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## Senseimilla (Mar 28, 2012)

wraffer said:


> rreaaalllyy???  thats very interesting, am about to use a 600mh to veg my next crop, do they still gain the same height under the bs?


I feel the same and yes, they will. They will also do it with less stress on the plant. Only caveat with the blackstar 240s for veg in my opinion is coverage. I would say 1 blackstar is probably good for about 4 sqft of solid coverage underneath for older plants... 9sqft for small plants/seedlings. So if you've got a bigger veg area you are going to need more than one. But they are fantastic other than that. Really loving mine for veg... still waiting on flower results.


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## Senseimilla (Mar 28, 2012)

Young plants have the same rules for LEDs as HID -- light needs to be farther away for younger plants. For veg you definitely you do not need the LEDs as close to the plants as you can get or you'll get problems. Your pic actually shows the lack of penetration -- the issue with LEDs is those dark shadows under the leaves like you see in this pic. HID the light is more scattered and you don't get the same amount of shadow underneath leaves as LED. That's why scrogging/trained canopies seem to be the way to go with LED. I got 4 LEDs spread across my canopy for more even lighting and there are still darker shadows under the leaves than there would be with HPS, though not as much as just 1 or 2 LED lights.



Mohican said:


> My Kessil is frying my plant. It is making my Sativa a squat litle bush. I think it is penetrating the floor!


----------



## wraffer (Mar 28, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> I feel the same and yes, they will. They will also do it with less stress on the plant. Only caveat with the blackstar 240s for veg in my opinion is coverage. I would say 1 blackstar is probably good for about 4 sqft of solid coverage underneath for older plants... 9sqft for small plants/seedlings. So if you've got a bigger veg area you are going to need more than one. But they are fantastic other than that. Really loving mine for veg... still waiting on flower results.


wow thanks for telling me that  sounds great am gonna seriously consider getting two  will keep flowering under hps as ive no restrictions where i need to use led for that but just started looking at leds yesterday and have to say im impressed how far they have come since i been out the scene lol


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## wraffer (Mar 28, 2012)

Mohican said:


> I know! I keep seeing 600W and 1000W HPS results and I wonder if I am wasting my time. But this Kessil is doing a great job and no heat. I am only growing one personal plant and so I think the heat and overkill of an HPS right now would be, well, overkill. I will put link up here so you can see my growing pains with this plant and light.


yea it would really nice one for the link will have a look now


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## wraffer (Mar 28, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> Young plants have the same rules for LEDs as HID -- light needs to be farther away for younger plants. For veg you definitely you do not need the LEDs as close to the plants as you can get or you'll get problems. Your pic actually shows the lack of penetration -- the issue with LEDs is those dark shadows under the leaves like you see in this pic. HID the light is more scattered and you don't get the same amount of shadow underneath leaves as LED. That's why scrogging/trained canopies seem to be the way to go with LED. I got 4 LEDs spread across my canopy for more even lighting and there are still darker shadows under the leaves than there would be with HPS, though not as much as just 1 or 2 LED lights.


Nice one for the info there makes sense, really good points


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## dickkhead (Mar 28, 2012)

look into buying a solar storm there well worth the investment! i have 2 of them after signing up for a growers feed back and so far theyve beat everythiing ive put them up against in veg. im a few weeks away from flower but im confident that nothing will compare! the owner is an elctrical engineer who lives in cali and specifically makes his lights for mj plants!


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## Mohican (Mar 29, 2012)

Do you have a link or can I just google?


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## curly604 (Mar 29, 2012)

yo mohican check my sig too a company called vipar great panels man and good prices


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## curly604 (Mar 29, 2012)

viparled.com is the site  you should peep em too weej let me know what ya think


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## WeJuana (Mar 29, 2012)

Damn! Yall put a few pages on since my last visit lol. Just read it and caught up.

@wraffer - I will be able to conclude of LED is a viable replacement for LED after this round of testing.
@curly - the website looks like it was done well.. but that's the most ii would dare to speculate on. I leave the rest in the power of what the light can do itself and I wouldn't venture to say without being able to test it.


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## curly604 (Mar 30, 2012)

nice man come by and check my sig if ya have time im on veg day 34 and they are ripping it up


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## curly604 (Mar 30, 2012)

your girls look amazing as usual too there weej


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## WeJuana (Mar 30, 2012)

Thanks curly! I checked it out your journal yesterday and it's looking good. I'm excited to see what it produces.


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## Senseimilla (Mar 30, 2012)

Looking forward to your next update


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## PSUAGRO. (Mar 30, 2012)

^^^^^^^^^^^^like and agree on the updates .......be safe wejuana...


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## dickkhead (Mar 30, 2012)

hey wej you should contact george from california light works about running a solar storm in your tents. id put money that it would prob come out on top! theres a guy comparing it to a 1000 mh o another thread and the growth is exactly the same. hes 5 weeks into flower and you cant tell the difference at all


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## WeJuana (Mar 30, 2012)

Updates will be coming soon! That sounds interesting dickhead, can you PM me a link? 

I just have heard a mixed review about MH along the lines of what people say about LED, it's great in veg but not the best suited for flower. Just like LED's it could be all hype, but when you look at a 1000 hps vs a 1000 mh you can see quite the difference (MH output about 80k and HPS output about 145k in lumens).

The 600w hps I am currently running puts out 95K, so it technically is a little more "powerful" than the 1000 MH in terms of lumens or the comparison.

I am curious to see how this experiment goes!


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## Senseimilla (Mar 30, 2012)

Nice. My lights have a 540-580w power draw -- I don't have a 600w side by side on mine but I'm going to be comparing them to what I used to harvest when I ran a 600w. Hoping to produce similar to the 600.


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## WeJuana (Mar 30, 2012)

HPS






Spectra






Blackstar






Penetrator


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## StraightDope (Mar 31, 2012)

Yo man those plants looked all fucked up bro shitty nugs man what the fuck did you do wrong bro?


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## Senseimilla (Mar 31, 2012)

StraightDope said:


> Yo man those plants looked all fucked up bro shitty nugs man what the fuck did you do wrong bro?


They're 21 days old. They're just fine. Read the subject of his post  Those nugs are very much fine for 21 days and the plant coloring is due to the LED lighting under regular lights those would look green.


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## PSUAGRO. (Mar 31, 2012)

Ha ha^^ god I love stoners....girls are looking great wejuana....


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## WeJuana (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks Senseimilla & PSUAGRO! Like & Like if the forum would allow


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## hippy132 (Apr 1, 2012)

Looking good, just today moved bubblegum seedlings, 3 weeks old from under Spectra 180 to Spectra 290, keeping lite as high as possible. I will try and veg with this and then go to flower with 290 and 400 watt hps.


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## Mohican (Apr 1, 2012)

Hey WJ - Beautiful ladies! You are the reason I am running the Kessil LEDs!
Cheers,
Mo


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## PrezDickie (Apr 1, 2012)

lol, people sharing their "insight" with the world who don't know what's going on.... one of my fav things  Girls looking good Wej


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## WeJuana (Apr 3, 2012)

For those of you who don't know, the feds raided multiple locations in Oaksterdam CA today including Oaksterdam University while just blocks away at a religious university, 7 were murdered. This is an obvious display of your tax dollars at waste funding the feds to violate our 10th amendment.

[video=youtube;Dr4DFPZBQZg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr4DFPZBQZg[/video]


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## puffenuff (Apr 3, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> For those of you who don't know, the feds raided multiple locations in Oaksterdam CA today including Oaksterdam University while just blocks away at a religious university, 7 were murdered. This is an obvious display of your tax dollars at waste funding the feds to violate our 10th amendment.
> 
> [video=youtube;Dr4DFPZBQZg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr4DFPZBQZg[/video]


Yeah saw this on the news last night.. ridiculous the feds shut down oaksterdam, they are also telling one of the oldest dispensaries in oakland to shut down too. It's a shame because the medical marijuana community has played a huge role in revitalizing downtown oakland. and the shooting was just terrible...


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## Psytranceorgy (Apr 3, 2012)

^^^ makes me sick


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## Senseimilla (Apr 3, 2012)

Is oaksterdam within 1000 feet of a school? That would be a "legit" reason (or at least what the gov't has been using lately as justification)


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## Mohican (Apr 3, 2012)

Hey WJ - here is a shot of my girl today:







Cheers,
Mo


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## WeJuana (Apr 3, 2012)

Please sign and share this petition to end raids on medical marijuana!! http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-the-medical-marijuana-raids#
​


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## nasar (Apr 4, 2012)

*

ROUND 2 LA CONFIDENTIAL YIELD:

Blackstar (2 Plants) = 137.2 grams
Spectra (2 Plants) = 147.1 grams
Penetrator (2 Plants) = 153.1 grams

Total = 437.4 grams = 15.6 oz. My goal was a lb, but I can't complain because I wasn't too far from it. Next round with the Qrazy Trains should yield better from the looks of the test plant.​
​

*Love the results from last round Wej 
from what i gather the results are so close, in terms of price the black star is the WINNER what do you say Wejuana???


*

Next round is:


Blackstar 900w 
VS 
(3) Spectra 120w's 
VS
Penetrator 336X-PRO (3w Version)
VS
600w HPS (Horilux Eye buld & Blockbuster Hood)​
​

*Also this next round is gonna be a killer one the 3 spectra's will have a very good coverage i have read that more of less wattage LED's give better coverage and light? 

Can't wait for results...


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## dickkhead (Apr 4, 2012)

man that raid is crazy!! are they going to do this across the country?


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## puffenuff (Apr 4, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Please sign and share this petition to end raids on medical marijuana!! http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-the-medical-marijuana-raids#
> ​


Petition signed. Going to repost to spread the word. Thanks wj!


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## WeJuana (Apr 4, 2012)

puffenuff said:


> Petition signed. Going to repost to spread the word. Thanks wj!


Thank you puff! And everyone else who signed and shared the petition!



nasar said:


> *
> 
> ROUND 2 LA CONFIDENTIAL YIELD:
> 
> ...



Go figure I write u a whole long response and go to post it and then RIU freezes up..

It all depends on the light is what it comes down to. My conclusion was each light provided a difference between the plants other than yield, one being most trichomes, one being best bud to leaf ratio, and one was most pistils.. its all depending on if the potency factor or easier trimming making for less time spent trimming are bigger factors than price. 

I did note I was not myself going to declare a clear cut winner, but rather let forum patrons decide for themselves based on the data provided.


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## Senseimilla (Apr 4, 2012)

Sounds like a combination of lights might be ideal  Did you have a personal preference? It would be good to see the same experiment repeated at least 2 more times to see if the results were the same both times... one time could be due to some other factor we don't know about... if it were repeated you could either be pretty sure that the results were true or the same mistake was made multiple times


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## WeJuana (Apr 4, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> Sounds like a combination of lights might be ideal  Did you have a personal preference? It would be good to see the same experiment repeated at least 2 more times to see if the results were the same both times... one time could be due to some other factor we don't know about... if it were repeated you could either be pretty sure that the results were true or the same mistake was made multiple times


Definitely! The lights are similar except for wattage as far as the Blackstar and Penetrator tent go, the Spectra lights underwent a spectrum change which I think are actually producing better than the prior light!

From the first round I liked the Penetrator light best overall, but I think that was just due to the design of the light with more even penetration. Now that I am using multiple Spectras, the coverage is comparable! I have been hearing about the new Blackstar Chrome lights, which I think I will be trying to incorporate in an upcoming round, and eventually I will hopefully be able to do testing with the same constants for multiple rounds once I get the lights finalized. It's hard trying to keep up with technology though!! haha


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## dickkhead (Apr 5, 2012)

Try n get a solar storm I think it's awesome your still doing this!


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## WeJuana (Apr 6, 2012)

Mohican said:


> Hey WJ - Beautiful ladies! You are the reason I am running the Kessil LEDs!
> Cheers,
> Mo


How are you liking the kessils so far? Your babies are looking good!


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## Mohican (Apr 6, 2012)

I am suplementing my Magenta with two 6500K 110W CFLs from Ace Hardware

Have a look:







The setup right now (I am building a room for flower):







Cheers,
Mo


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## supchaka (Apr 6, 2012)

Ive never grown with cfl's but aren't those too far from the plant?


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## Mohican (Apr 6, 2012)

They were closer but I moved them up because they were shading the LED from the plant and I wanted a little more stretch because the leaves were getting stacked. The CFLs are very bright and the reflectors focus them more intensely. The LED is just so bright you cant hardly tell the CFLs are on. I am building a grow cabinet with diamond mylar and then I will top, scrog, go 12/12, and 100% Kessil Magenta LED.


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## Mohican (Apr 6, 2012)

Here is a picture with the CFLs closer and you can see the LED shadow under a 110W light!


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## WeJuana (Apr 6, 2012)

Very nice!!!
@dickhead - I'll look into it but I already have the future prospective lights picked for a little while unless something changes drastically in technology.


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## dickkhead (Apr 7, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Very nice!!!
> @dickhead - I'll look into it but I already have the future prospective lights picked for a little while unless something changes drastically in technology.


im tellin ya def get one in the future he is working on an led/plasma/uv light now that will be released this year cant wait! but his old soslar storm on the california light works led forums is killing it look it up. theres a guy doing a grow agaisnt 1000 mh and the plant is identical!


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## Senseimilla (Apr 7, 2012)

yeah dickhead but how much is that light going to cost?


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## Shwagbag (Apr 7, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> yeah dickhead but how much is that light going to cost?


alOt, lol. Plasma is not cheap, but it kicks some serious ass.


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## nasar (Apr 7, 2012)

new grow light company i have found http://www.greenlights.org.uk 
check it out 5 year guarantee.


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## dickkhead (Apr 7, 2012)

the solar storm now is 995


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## Shwagbag (Apr 8, 2012)

nasar said:


> new grow light company i have found http://www.greenlights.org.uk
> check it out 5 year guarantee.


"Guarantee" is a loosely defined term in the LED business, lol.


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## Saywhut (Apr 8, 2012)

I'm selling my grow led hydro Spectra 500, my plans fell through for putting it to use. Give me an offer if its fair enough i'll take it. Its CRAZY powerful. http://www.ebay.com/itm/270952930853?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1204


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## PSUAGRO. (Apr 8, 2012)

Hey we Juana....so what's the latest brother??


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## puffenuff (Apr 9, 2012)

nasar said:


> new grow light company i have found http://www.greenlights.org.uk
> check it out 5 year guarantee.


Interesting find. Many of the same models as HGL. I am digging the adjustable module unit. Could potentially angle the module to hit shodows, corners, edges, etc for better coverage. Very cool!


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Apr 9, 2012)

puffenuff said:


> Interesting find. Many of the same models as HGL. I am digging the adjustable module unit. Could potentially angle the module to hit shodows, corners, edges, etc for better coverage. Very cool!


yo puff.......Just go to "led star co ltd" and ask for ryan huang(main sales rep) they make all those panels that the UK shop is selling ......
He emails me shit all the time about the new products their making....Their coming out with the "hydrogrow/x2/omni panel" knockoff next month......fuck it just PM me if you want more info...............


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## Shwagbag (Apr 9, 2012)

PSUAGRO. said:


> yo puff.......Just go to "led star co ltd" and ask for ryan huang(main sales rep) they make all those panels that the UK shop is selling ......
> He emails me shit all the time about the new products their making....Their coming out with the "hydrogrow/x2/omni panel" knockoff next month......fuck it just PM me if you want more info...............


Just my 2 cents, but I wouldn't buy jack shit from anyone ever again without seeing a spectral analysis first. Any company that can't provide one isn't worth dealing with IMO. Without it, you have no idea if you're getting a light fit for growing plants or for just looking cool. A big thanks to WeJuana for this thread, it definitely helps to show a light's value. Outside of that, buying a light you haven't seen tested in real life without any type of analysis is setting your self up for a poor investment and results that don't meet your expectations.


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## Mohican (Apr 9, 2012)

Kessil makes some good lights for good prices and great results:













Cheers,
Mo


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## PSUAGRO. (Apr 9, 2012)

Shwagbag said:


> Just my 2 cents, but I wouldn't buy jack shit from anyone ever again without seeing a spectral analysis first. Any company that can't provide one isn't worth dealing with IMO. Without it, you have no idea if you're getting a light fit for growing plants or for just looking cool. A big thanks to WeJuana for this thread, it definitely helps to show a light's value. Outside of that, buying a light you haven't seen tested in real life without any type of analysis is setting your self up for a poor investment and results that don't meet your expectations.


I totally agree with this^^


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## WeJuana (Apr 10, 2012)

[video=youtube;XCu9iv8uKA4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCu9iv8uKA4[/video]


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## Psytranceorgy (Apr 10, 2012)

whhheeee!!! everything looks really good WeJuana... love your show man!


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## WeJuana (Apr 11, 2012)

Psytranceorgy said:


> whhheeee!!! everything looks really good WeJuana... love your show man!


Thank you much! All is looking pretty even at this point..


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## Senseimilla (Apr 11, 2012)

hes got a show?


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## Psytranceorgy (Apr 11, 2012)

yeah right here =D


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## WeJuana (Apr 11, 2012)

haha ya this is my show!! )


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## hippy132 (Apr 13, 2012)

anyone got any ideas on how to go forward, I have bunch of bubblegum seedlings 4-5 weeks old about 5 leafs tall - maybe 6-7 inches, still havent shown sex. Should I change to 12/12 sex them and change back, wait until they are larger go 12/12 and then sex them, should I transplant before 12/12 or. they are under a Spectra 290 (watts) at about 35 inches from plants, doing great, help, help,


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## Senseimilla (Apr 13, 2012)

Let them get bigger. My plants generally don't show sex until over 1' tall. Putting them into 12/12 is going to stress and stretch them. Transplanting them is ideal, but under an LED you will not have room for the males and females in big pots underneath (at least i don't). If you do have room, just transplant them.


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## hippy132 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks , that&#8217;s what I was wondering, I can definitely wait to transplant, dont want to move from 1 to 5 gallon for a plant I will be tossing, waiting will help develop larger root structure also.


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## Senseimilla (Apr 13, 2012)

Yeah just got to make sure you watch out for them getting rootbound.


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## rawgit (Apr 15, 2012)

Wrap a dark cloth around a side stem for a week or two.


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## hippy132 (Apr 16, 2012)

rawgit said:


> Wrap a dark cloth around a side stem for a week or two.


what does that do?


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## WeJuana (Apr 16, 2012)

rawgit said:


> Wrap a dark cloth around a side stem for a week or two.


I've heard of that! Does it really work? It supposedly enduces the plant to show sex on the covered area because it doesn't get light, and hence supposedly will show sex/begin flowering.


----------



## dickkhead (Apr 17, 2012)

rawgit said:


> Wrap a dark cloth around a side stem for a week or two.


thanks for that I have some space dawgs i need to determine the sex of


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## nasar (Apr 20, 2012)

hey wejuana hope all is well looking forward to all updates thread is dying by the looks of it, how long for harvest?


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## Senseimilla (Apr 21, 2012)

Yeah where's the updates


----------



## PrezDickie (Apr 24, 2012)

its been going a long time, i think we need a summery of rounds one and two which light yielded what, etc... its a lot of pages and post to scroll thru if someone just found the thread


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## WeJuana (Apr 24, 2012)

Hey all! So sorry the updates have been slacking a bit, its crazy handling this place all by myself. I'll be updating tonight or tomorrow and you will all be able to see how stuff has moved around.

Side note pertaining to this round:* I am expecting the yields to be quite low weight wise but this is mostly genetics. I yielded the first Aurora Indica out of the HPS tent and results were less than satisfactory with the yield, and after this round the strain will be discontinued from the garden.* The comparison plants are also no more than 2 ft tall, being small in size just in general.

That being said, next rounds will be done using Trinity Kush or Qrazy Train which are my 2 favorite strains to grow to date, and are the top yielders as well as top in quality.

Check back soon for updates! I will also try and collect the first few rounds worth of info and post it in comparison to the yields from the 3rd round.


----------



## WeJuana (Apr 30, 2012)

Sorry for the hold up but the long overdue update is here! 

All the new plants are about 10 days into flower. The AI plants are day 52 out of approx 63-70. I want to again reiterate that this strain will be leaving the garden after this round because of the lower yields the plants give off. You can see in comparison to the Qrazy Train strain in tent 2, the nug size is substantial for being the same age.

I have been able to pull 4-5 oz per plant off the Trinity Kush and Qrazy Train plants after a 4 week veg and 9 week flower.

Without further intro heres the video:
[video=youtube;Vu83_lKLIr0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu83_lKLIr0&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]


----------



## Senseimilla (Apr 30, 2012)

But I thought LEDs only produce airbuds???  Seriously, it's looking like one of mine is going to be over 4oz too (hoping hoping hoping). how do you like the smoke of the qrazy train?


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Apr 30, 2012)

Great video wejuana.............but damn your keeping that HPS up high up......what's it's like 4-4 1/2 feet off the canopy???


----------



## WeJuana (Apr 30, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> But I thought LEDs only produce airbuds???  Seriously, it's looking like one of mine is going to be over 4oz too (hoping hoping hoping). how do you like the smoke of the qrazy train?


Hahaha airbuds indeed! I can't wait to run either the Trinity or Qrazy Train in a test round so I can provide some descent yields "officially" instead of just random plants that aren't in the "comparison." 
That will be next round..

The QT smokes awesome! Definitely one of my top 10 favorite strains to smoke, but beyond that I really feel like I can read the strain and am able to grow it well.



PSUAGRO. said:


> Great video wejuana.............but damn your keeping that HPS up high up......what's it's like 4-4 1/2 feet off the canopy???


I will take a measurement from it tonight. I raised up all the lights about 12 inches in uniform with the new additions coming in the tents to allow for a good stretch these first 2 weeks. I would guess its about 36 inches off the canopy max though the way it is sitting.


----------



## WeJuana (May 1, 2012)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Great video wejuana.............but damn your keeping that HPS up high up......what's it's like 4-4 1/2 feet off the canopy???


I measured and the glass on the HPS is currently 28-34 inches above the canopy but keeping in mind the plants will keep stretching for the next week or so.


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## PSUAGRO. (May 1, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> I measured and the glass on the HPS is currently 28-34 inches above the canopy but keeping in mind the plants will keep stretching for the next week or so.


Great!!!..........it seemed high in the video...........keep on growing/love your comparison videos.....as always your doing us a service brother........


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## dickkhead (May 1, 2012)

Great up date! I got airy buds from organic under led but my high pressure aero plants were dense and tight as hell! I think the typ of growing style will play a big role in density


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## WeJuana (May 1, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Great up date! I got airy buds from organic under led but my high pressure aero plants were dense and tight as hell! I think the typ of growing style will play a big role in density


Agreed and I think another large factor is the distance from the light. Last round in the HPS I noticed good size top cola's but the density lacked because the heat from being so close to the light itself.

This round I compensated a bit more with distance in hopes of increasing the density all around.


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## dickkhead (May 2, 2012)

Yea I'm still figuring out distance the black stars need to be realy close like 10-12"


----------



## WeJuana (May 2, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Yea I'm still figuring out distance the black stars need to be realy close like 10-12"


My opinion is it's partially strain dependent, and footprint size is a factor too! The Qrazy Train likes to be about 8-10" off of the light, but the Trinity Kush does good at about 18-20" I pulled 5oz from the last Trinity under the Blackstar @ 20" distance.


----------



## dickkhead (May 2, 2012)

Yea I'd agree 
5oz off of a 3 gallon airpot is good!! 2 weeks into flower now under my solar storm and a 900 bs looks promising so far!!


----------



## WeJuana (May 2, 2012)

I'd like your post but theres still no like button! lol

I thought I would share this video with yall. I found it interesting what type of lighting solution DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency)​ uses to grow their plants 
[video=youtube;T0nukOKUiCo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0nukOKUiCo[/video]


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## Lucius Vorenus (May 3, 2012)

Darpa isn't growing Cannabis


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## Senseimilla (May 3, 2012)

They should be  I guess they've never thought of pacification of the enemy through cannabis


----------



## WeJuana (May 3, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> They should be  I guess they've never thought of pacification of the enemy through cannabis


Genius!! haha



Lucius Vorenus said:


> Darpa isn't growing Cannabis


Thanks for clarifying. For those who skim the thread and dont watch the video, DARPA is using LED's to grow their plants, and you are correct that the plants are not cannabis.


----------



## CandyCandy (May 8, 2012)

Can you post what the wattage/type of light you have in each grow w/some pictures. How many plants in a 4x4 space? Who is in the lead? When do we harvest? When can I sample the grow?


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## WeJuana (May 8, 2012)

CandyCandy said:


> Can you post what the wattage/type of light you have in each grow w/some pictures. How many plants in a 4x4 space? Who is in the lead? When do we harvest? When can I sample the grow?


Here's one better then pictures, this is the video from the start of this testing round.
[video=youtube;FbTChaig1Cw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=FbTChaig1Cw[/video]

This will show the number of plants in a 4x4 space, but only the Aurora Indica is being compared officially. Harvest is whenever the plants are ready, I do not go off of a time, rather trichomes. Your samples of the grow are all the content of this thread so sample away my friend lol.


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## dickkhead (May 8, 2012)

when do you pluck? do you give them any dark period?


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## WeJuana (May 9, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> when do you pluck? do you give them any dark period?


With this Aurora you never can be too sure when its time to chop crop until within a few days. As of now pistils are about 40% red and trichs are cloudy.. things will finish off quick quickly when it's time. I have been flushing for the last week and a half or so.

I can't give them any excessive dark period because the tents are running their cycle with other plants and there are lights which go on and off outside the tent area. I just let them get extremely thirsty before I cut to help the bud consistency not be mushy while trimming.


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## dickkhead (May 9, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> With this Aurora you never can be too sure when its time to chop crop until within a few days. As of now pistils are about 40% red and trichs are cloudy.. things will finish off quick quickly when it's time. I have been flushing for the last week and a half or so.
> 
> I can't give them any excessive dark period because the tents are running their cycle with other plants and there are lights which go on and off outside the tent area. I just let them get extremely thirsty before I cut to help the bud consistency not be mushy while trimming.


So u wait till you see a few trichs amber(indica dependent) and red ( sativa dependent)? I'm running the dyna gro right now and loving it so far on your feeding schedule have you tried to just run DG without the additives? They say There's no need for any additives I'm not knocking your methods I'm just wondering if you've noticed a diff with or without the additives? Also try the foliage pro the stuff rocks!!


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## WeJuana (May 10, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> So u wait till you see a few trichs amber(indica dependent) and red ( sativa dependent)? I'm running the dyna gro right now and loving it so far on your feeding schedule have you tried to just run DG without the additives? They say There's no need for any additives I'm not knocking your methods I'm just wondering if you've noticed a diff with or without the additives? Also try the foliage pro the stuff rocks!!


You are correct, I harvest by calyxes and trichs, in conjunction with the thirst of the plant. I do not like to chop unless the plant is drooping thirsty, which helps with the consistency of bud when trimming so it's not mushy and difficult to work with (I made that mistake once and never again)!

Foliage pro is the stuff I am using for veg! I love it as well!

I have not tried the chart without the additives, although I imagine they would do quite well without it since Dyna-Gro is such a complete 1 part nute.

Recently I have been using nothing but Rootbastic with every veg feeding except the very last feeding, and I really like the results! It seems to provide all the nutes the plants need (in FFOF soil) with just rootbastic until they are ready for flower. I have noticed faster growth and more robust looking stocks. The most recent round of the Trinity Kush & Qrazy Train were raised this way and given week 4 veg nutes 1 week prior to entering the flower tents.


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## dickkhead (May 10, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> You are correct, I harvest by calyxes and trichs, in conjunction with the thirst of the plant. I do not like to chop unless the plant is drooping thirsty, which helps with the consistency of bud when trimming so it's not mushy and difficult to work with (I made that mistake once and never again)!
> 
> Foliage pro is the stuff I am using for veg! I love it as well!
> 
> ...


you use root bastic with foliage pro? Im using foliage pro alone howmany tsp/gal did you feed with?


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## WeJuana (May 11, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> you use root bastic with foliage pro? Im using foliage pro alone howmany tsp/gal did you feed with?


I used the rootbastic stand alone for veg up until 1 week before flower, then I dose with 2.5ml per gal of foliage pro.


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## thatsmessedup (May 11, 2012)

interesting video


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## WeJuana (May 12, 2012)

thatsmessedup said:


> interesting video


Thanks! Next update will be coming Monday or Tuesday, my camera is currently on loan til then.


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## PSUAGRO. (May 12, 2012)

Still going at it I see..........ha........It's like the led testing facility in your place......cant wait for your update.......be safe/happy growing wejuana


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## dickkhead (May 12, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> I used the rootbastic stand alone for veg up until 1 week before flower, then I dose with 2.5ml per gal of foliage pro.


who makes root bastic? and thats it for FP i was using 1/4tsp per gal and they were yellowing and after reading the bottle it says feed 1tsp gal if you notice def so I did and they bounced right back!


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## WeJuana (May 12, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> who makes root bastic? and thats it for FP i was using 1/4tsp per gal and they were yellowing and after reading the bottle it says feed 1tsp gal if you notice def so I did and they bounced right back!


Atami makes Rootbastic. I have also had that happen, I was using the 3 squirts per gal (1/4tsp) and noticed a def after a 6 week veg of this constant dose, so I upped it to the full tsp for a week and they came right around.

I think the plants respond better to having nothing but the rootbastic for the initial 3-4 weeks of veg, and then getting nutes to boost their performance. By not having the nutes for the first few weeks, once they actually receive the nutes I can see the response seems to be more drastic for growth.


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## dickkhead (May 12, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Atami makes Rootbastic. I have also had that happen, I was using the 3 squirts per gal (1/4tsp) and noticed a def after a 6 week veg of this constant dose, so I upped it to the full tsp for a week and they came right around.
> 
> I think the plants respond better to having nothing but the rootbastic for the initial 3-4 weeks of veg, and then getting nutes to boost their performance. By not having the nutes for the first few weeks, once they actually receive the nutes I can see the response seems to be more drastic for growth.


When u upped it to the full tsp of fp what was ur feed schedule feed feed water or?... That's what I do with the DG gro at 1/4 tsp first 4 weeks in pro mix and they love it. I'll have to look into this root basic. I've also heard of using sea kelp thrive alive b-1 and bennies in conjunction with DG in flower what do u think of that?


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## WeJuana (May 12, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> When u upped it to the full tsp of fp what was ur feed schedule feed feed water or?... That's what I do with the DG gro at 1/4 tsp first 4 weeks in pro mix and they love it. I'll have to look into this root basic. I've also heard of using sea kelp thrive alive b-1 and bennies in conjunction with DG in flower what do u think of that?


I was on a 1/4 tsp with every watering and at week 6 of veg (mothers) they started getting a little hungry so I just put in a full tsp and didnt feed again for a full week and that seemed to be what they needed.

I haven't tried those nutes so I prefer not to speculate! I recently purchased Atami B'Cuzz Flavor and will be adding it to the res tonight for the first time (Not on the comparison plants but next round of Trinity and QT) so I will update at harvest if I notice any difference.


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## dickkhead (May 12, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> I was on a 1/4 tsp with every watering and at week 6 of veg (mothers) they started getting a little hungry so I just put in a full tsp and didnt feed again for a full week and that seemed to be what they needed.
> 
> I haven't tried those nutes so I prefer not to speculate! I recently purchased Atami B'Cuzz Flavor and will be adding it to the res tonight for the first time (Not on the comparison plants but next round of Trinity and QT) so I will update at harvest if I notice any difference.


nice look forward to it!


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## Amaximus (May 21, 2012)

Any updates?


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## WeJuana (May 22, 2012)

I actually had quite the update planned out but somehow during the upload my computer locked up and lost the file, which is real unfortunate because we actually just chopped and finished the trimming.

I literally just checked on the other computer and discovered there are no flies, so I do apologize for not having a final update video before harvest.. but I will have updates as to results within 7 days on dry weight! I do apologize for the anti-climactic finish to this round, but I will be sure to put pix up of the trimmed plants ASAP.


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## Amaximus (May 22, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> I actually had quite the update planned out but somehow during the upload my computer locked up and lost the file, which is real unfortunate because we actually just chopped and finished the trimming.
> 
> I literally just checked on the other computer and discovered there are no flies, so I do apologize for not having a final update video before harvest.. but I will have updates as to results within 7 days on dry weight! I do apologize for the anti-climactic finish to this round, but I will be sure to put pix up of the trimmed plants ASAP.


Oh man, That really sucks. No apologies necessary I'm sure it's real frustrating to go through all that work just to lose it. Been there done that.

Looking forward to the results, Your thread is definitely one of my favorites.


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## WeJuana (May 22, 2012)

Amaximus said:


> Oh man, That really sucks. No apologies necessary I'm sure it's real frustrating to go through all that work just to lose it. Been there done that.
> 
> Looking forward to the results, Your thread is definitely one of my favorites.


Thanks you! I appreciate that sincerely!


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## PSUAGRO. (May 23, 2012)

Amaximus said:


> Oh man, That really sucks. No apologies necessary I'm sure it's real frustrating to go through all that work just to lose it. Been there done that.
> 
> Looking forward to the results, Your thread is definitely one of my favorites.


^^^^^this.............................the best led comparison thread on RIU............be safe/happy growing


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## dickkhead (May 23, 2012)

I couldn't agree more ^ with video updates there's none here like it


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## WeJuana (May 24, 2012)

Thank you! It makes it all worth while that there are people who appreciate the thread and updates!

Things are drying quickly so weight will be posted within the next couple days!


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## hippy132 (May 24, 2012)

It appears Mike and GLH are no more


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## WeJuana (May 24, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> It appears Mike and GLH are no more


Really? This is the first I heard of this. Where did you hear about it?


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## hippy132 (May 24, 2012)

One of the other boards, add to sell his business , etc... bubble..


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## PSUAGRO. (May 24, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> One of the other boards, add to sell his business , etc... bubble..


So someone actually bought the business off that Ebay listing.......lol.......poor guy has no idea


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## hippy132 (May 24, 2012)

I dont think its sold yet, just the ad for it


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## WeJuana (May 25, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> I dont think its sold yet, just the ad for it


Yeah, I just looked it up and the company is still listed for a quarter mil buy it now. In this economy the listing may be up there for a while, but then again it only takes one person with the want, will and cash.


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## Endur0xX (May 25, 2012)

what comes with 250000$ ? anybody with that kind of cash can just start a new company, it's not like they would be buying a great reputation


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## WeJuana (May 27, 2012)

Round 3 results are in!
Each tent had 1 plant of Aurora Indica.

YIELDS:

Penetrator - 51.4 g
Blackstar - 54.8 g
Spectra - 48.1 g
HPS - 59.7 g

Remember, the strain genetics weren't the best so I was expecting lower yields and I am pretty impressed with these yields for how the plants looked as far as bud amount.

Here is an update video of how things are looking in the garden
[video=youtube;imkDD-X2Tq4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imkDD-X2Tq4&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## Shwagbag (May 28, 2012)

Endur0xX said:


> what comes with 250000$ ? anybody with that kind of cash can just start a new company, it's not like they would be buying a great reputation


I'd buy Spectra oh for about tree fitty.



WeJuana said:


> Round 3 results are in!
> Each tent had 1 plant of Aurora Indica.
> 
> YIELDS:
> ...


Grats on another harvest. You must be doing something right, I couldn't get my LED's to flower for shit. Good luck with the next!


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## WeJuana (May 28, 2012)

Shwagbag said:


> I'd buy Spectra oh for about tree fitty.
> 
> [video=youtube;4qcbgclG4_A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qcbgclG4_A[/video]
> 
> ...


Thank you! I think it takes a few rounds to dial in specifically for LED's, but now that I have it, I was able to get away with LED and HPS tents both on the same nute regiment and both flourishing.


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## kckid816 (May 28, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> It appears Mike and GLH are no more


Fucking asshole. Fuck him and Irishboy (i noticed his ass has disappeared). 

I haven't been on the forums recently because I've been busy, but so much for his 5 year warranty. I've been dealing with lack luster results from the GLHs for 3 grows now and now have burned out LEDs. I emailed Mike and he said it was a bad power supply. I have the 2011 290w and never got the turned down power supplies. I asked him to replace the lights and he said it was a bad power supply so he sends me 2 power supplies. I experiment with the new power supplies one by one and it still didn't fix the burned out LEDs. So now I'm stuck with two piece of shit $700 lights and a worthless warranty claim.


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## Lucius Vorenus (May 28, 2012)

I have 2 of the 240 watt Blackstars and they are SHIT. Waste of money.


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## dickkhead (May 28, 2012)

Shwagbag said:


> I'd buy Spectra oh for about tree fitty.
> 
> 
> 
> Grats on another harvest. You must be doing something right, I couldn't get my LED's to flower for shit. Good luck with the next!





Lucius Vorenus said:


> I have 2 of the 240 watt Blackstars and they are SHIT. Waste of money.


I've had good luck with bs so far could be your environment or nutes?



WeJuana said:


> Round 3 results are in!
> Each tent had 1 plant of Aurora Indica.
> 
> YIELDS:
> ...


Awesome wej that bs is so close the hps unbelievable!


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## Heretic (May 29, 2012)

kckid816 said:


> Fucking asshole. Fuck him and Irishboy (i noticed his ass has disappeared).
> 
> I haven't been on the forums recently because I've been busy, but so much for his 5 year warranty. I've been dealing with lack luster results from the GLHs for 3 grows now and now have burned out LEDs. I emailed Mike and he said it was a bad power supply. I have the 2011 290w and never got the turned down power supplies. I asked him to replace the lights and he said it was a bad power supply so he sends me 2 power supplies. I experiment with the new power supplies one by one and it still didn't fix the burned out LEDs. So now I'm stuck with two piece of shit $700 lights and a worthless warranty claim.


Replacing all ten power supplies on my 2 290's still burned plants, just delayed it a couple weeks, so I understand the frustration. I'm gonna try to do some vegging with them, or supplemental light for the 1000's. We'll see. I don't have very high hopes.

Either way, I still like seeing the results WeJuana. Thanks for keeping it up.


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## Mohican (May 29, 2012)

Hey WJ - Here is my Malawi under a Kessil - 2 weeks flower









but just in case the LED does not perform I have backup:


Outside Clone










Cheers,
Mo


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## Senseimilla (May 29, 2012)

I just grew a 2 3+oz plants and one 4oz plant under blackstars - got over 2oz off of a 1.5' tall plant. I assure you they are not shit. You need to reevaluate your technique.


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## Shwagbag (May 29, 2012)

Heretic said:


> Replacing all ten power supplies on my 2 290's still burned plants, just delayed it a couple weeks, so I understand the frustration. I'm gonna try to do some vegging with them, or supplemental light for the 1000's. We'll see. I don't have very high hopes.
> 
> Either way, I still like seeing the results WeJuana. Thanks for keeping it up.


They work great for vegging. They seem to stay nice and cool and take up less water than T5. I will let you other peeps with lots of time and patience figure out how to use them for flowering, haha. Thanks for sharing.


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## BatMaN SKuNK (May 29, 2012)

kckid816 said:


> ... So now I'm stuck with two piece of shit $700 lights and a worthless warranty claim.


Sucks doesn't it? 
When Companies like Lumatek and Hydrofarm put out equivalent products with real warranties that we can believe in.. That is the day I will buy a big ass expensive LED grow light. These run of the mill, fly by night Chinese outfits with their hands outstretched for cash... they scare me the most.


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## Senseimilla (May 29, 2012)

BatMaN SKuNK said:


> Sucks doesn't it?
> When Companies like Lumatek and Hydrofarm put out equivalent products with real warranties that we can believe in.. That is the day I will buy a big ass expensive LED grow light. These run of the mill, fly by night Chinese outfits with their hands outstretched for cash... they scare me the most.


Same here -- that's why I ended up going with Blackstars -- decent but not the best warranty but way less expensive. I figure by the time they go out I will be wanting to upgrade anyway  I'm quite happy with what my blackstars have turned out.


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## dickkhead (May 29, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> I just grew a 2 3+oz plants and one 4oz plant under blackstars - got over 2oz off of a 1.5' tall plant. I assure you they are not shit. You need to reevaluate your technique.


Id agree with you Ive had no complaints this far and im on my 3rd round!


BatMaN SKuNK said:


> Sucks doesn't it?
> When Companies like Lumatek and Hydrofarm put out equivalent products with real warranties that we can believe in.. That is the day I will buy a big ass expensive LED grow light. These run of the mill, fly by night Chinese outfits with their hands outstretched for cash... they scare me the most.


thats why journals and feed back are so great so you dont go into it blind 


Senseimilla said:


> Same here -- that's why I ended up going with Blackstars -- decent but not the best warranty but way less expensive. I figure by the time they go out I will be wanting to upgrade anyway  I'm quite happy with what my blackstars have turned out.


thats how I feel if I get a couple years out of the light im happy if it pulls down a 5- 10 pounds it pays for its self 10X over


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## Senseimilla (May 29, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> thats how I feel if I get a couple years out of the light im happy if it pulls down a 5- 10 pounds it pays for its self 10X over


Damn straight -- even the blackstars are not cheap, but far less than street prices to buy. Mine paid for themselves the first plant I harvested (over 3oz)


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## Beefbisquit (May 30, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> I just grew a 2 3+oz plants and one 4oz plant under blackstars - got over 2oz off of a 1.5' tall plant. I assure you they are not shit. You need to reevaluate your technique.


I agree, on my first LED grow using a BS180 (and a PG180 for the last 3 weeks) I grew two plants, both under two feet tall (including the pots!) getting me 92g and 72g dry respectively, off each plant.


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## hippy132 (May 31, 2012)

I vegged using my Spectra 290 V? 2011? and had good luck but seems like overkill. Not sure what to do with the two 180's I bought at his ridiculous prices but will have to chalk it all up to fking education, I am using aan air cooled 400 hps w 150 hps supplement and after 25 days they look like they should. BTW, Irishboy is on Bubbleisious (sp). as are some other die hard spectra users.


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## WeJuana (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm glad you all stuck around to see the round through! I am going to do a blind sampling with the yield soon and will give the "smoke report" results when I have them. Next harvest I am going to total the yield for each tent and then divide by the number of plants in the tent giving an "average weight per plant" figure for the lights. That will be a little more conclusive in my opinion.

Then on to the next round..


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## Shwagbag (Jun 2, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> I vegged using my Spectra 290 V? 2011? and had good luck but seems like overkill. Not sure what to do with the two 180's I bought at his ridiculous prices but will have to chalk it all up to fking education, I am using aan air cooled 400 hps w 150 hps supplement and after 25 days they look like they should. BTW, Irishboy is on Bubbleisious (sp). as are some other die hard spectra users.


That seems like it should be a good veg light. My 2 x 150's do a fair job filling a 4 x 2.5 space although the footprint could be a bit bigger. There's more stretching than with my T5's but they're cooler and less wattage than the 415w unit I was using and the overall health is fantastic. I still have 2 or 3 more 180's sitting on a shelf collecting dust though, I will set a friend up with one for a veg light if/when they are looking to start a setup. Grats on the harvest WeJ, looking forward to that blind taste test! 

SB


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## dickkhead (Jun 2, 2012)

wej do you notice any bleaching from the black stars?


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## WeJuana (Jun 2, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> wej do you notice any bleaching from the black stars?


No none at all. I will get another update video up shortly to show the progress of the current plants


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## dickkhead (Jun 3, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> No none at all. I will get another update video up shortly to show the progress of the current plants


What height do you have the bs at? 2 strains that I have under it are bleaching (yellowing) but could be a ph or deficiency issue I need a new ph pen


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## Senseimilla (Jun 3, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> What height do you have the bs at? 2 strains that I have under it are bleaching (yellowing) but could be a ph or deficiency issue I need a new ph pen


Bleaching or yellowing? General yellowing isn't going to be due to your LED. Yellowing or yellow spots on the upper leaves that looks like HPS bleaching is bleaching due to the light. Mg-deficiency like pattern on upper leaves is due to LED too close. Mg deficiency yellowing at the bottom may be due to LED (need more mg) or may be pH issue. General yellowing at the bottom or overall is not due to the LED.


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## kckid816 (Jun 3, 2012)

kckid816 said:


> Fucking asshole. Fuck him and Irishboy (i noticed his ass has disappeared).
> 
> I haven't been on the forums recently because I've been busy, but so much for his 5 year warranty. I've been dealing with lack luster results from the GLHs for 3 grows now and now have burned out LEDs. I emailed Mike and he said it was a bad power supply. I have the 2011 290w and never got the turned down power supplies. I asked him to replace the lights and he said it was a bad power supply so he sends me 2 power supplies. I experiment with the new power supplies one by one and it still didn't fix the burned out LEDs. So now I'm stuck with two piece of shit $700 lights and a worthless warranty claim.


Just FYI, and being fair. Mike has answered my email and told me to send the panels to him (at my expense of course) for him to see what's wrong. I will update when he resolves the issue.


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## Endur0xX (Jun 3, 2012)

I bleached plants with my blackstar, at least 12'' from canopy .. also it stays lit now which kind of sucks when trying to flower, I will probably just get rid of my bs 240 , anyone? real cheap


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## WeJuana (Jun 4, 2012)

Endur0xX said:


> I bleached plants with my blackstar, at least 12'' from canopy .. also it stays lit now which kind of sucks when trying to flower, I will probably just get rid of my bs 240 , anyone? real cheap


I have issues with bleaching getting about 6-8 inches from the 240, I like to keep lights at a 14-18" range depending on the strain. 



dickkhead said:


> What height do you have the bs at? 2 strains that I have under it are bleaching (yellowing) but could be a ph or deficiency issue I need a new ph pen


It's between 16-18 inches away from the canopy and its giving a nice even cover for the 4x4. Can you post pics of your plants and maybe I can give some insight?


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## ledgrowing (Jun 4, 2012)

if your light is staying on dim when timer turns it off its because the polarity of your house is different than the light. just pull the ground pin out on the light plug <--- only due this if you are running them on 110


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## hippy132 (Jun 7, 2012)

ledgrowing said:


> if your light is staying on dim when timer turns it off its because the polarity of your house is different than the light. just pull the ground pin out on the light plug <--- only due this if you are running them on 110


How does removing the ground which is for safety, change polarity. Sounds like either a polarity issue in the home (check all plugs with a polarity tester) or timer is bad. DO NOT CUT GROUND PIN OUT, IMHO


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 7, 2012)

Do NOT cut the ground pin out....


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## ledgrowing (Jun 7, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> How does removing the ground which is for safety, change polarity. Sounds like either a polarity issue in the home (check all plugs with a polarity tester) or timer is bad. DO NOT CUT GROUND PIN OUT, IMHO


ground pin is only there for 220 110 it does nothing at all not my imho fact


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## hippy132 (Jun 8, 2012)

seriously? Grounds are there to insure that the 110v AC does not create safety issue

,A ground wire is a wire that is literally connected to the earth. This wire acts as a backup wire in case a neutral wire fails. Without a ground wire, the risk of electrical shock becomes a viable possibility. Ground wires are usually green or yellow in color in order to differentiate between neutral wires and hot wires. Thus, it is easy to discern a ground wire from other wires.Each electrical circuit inside of a home has two types of wire: hot and neutral. Black wires are known as "hot" wires, and these wires carry electrical currents; hot wires may also be red in color. White wires carry electrical currents away from a device, and these wires are known as neutral wires.


When a white wire is broken, stray current is no longer carried away from a device, and neutralization is not possible without the help of a ground wire. In most instances, a ground wire is connected to a circuit breaker. When a neutral wire is no longer functional, the ground wire will trip the corresponding circuit breaker. When a circuit breaker has been activated, any electrical current is immediately stopped.

From wisegeek.com


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## staf82 (Jun 8, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> seriously? Grounds are there to insure that the 110v AC does not create safety issue
> 
> ,A ground wire is a wire that is literally connected to the earth. This wire acts as a backup wire in case a neutral wire fails. Without a ground wire, the risk of electrical shock becomes a viable possibility. Ground wires are usually green or yellow in color in order to differentiate between neutral wires and hot wires. Thus, it is easy to discern a ground wire from other wires.Each electrical circuit inside of a home has two types of wire: hot and neutral. Black wires are known as "hot" wires, and these wires carry electrical currents; hot wires may also be red in color. White wires carry electrical currents away from a device, and these wires are known as neutral wires.
> 
> ...


Never heard it like that before, an earth wire is quite often the same as a neatral but is only used if the (hot) live wire comes into contact with it. It has little resistance and will cause a surge which pulls more current causing the circuit breaker to trip. With LED lights you will find the case is earthed but thats it, this is in case a live wire touches the case so that it trips the power so you dont get a shock. The transformer in the light will prob only have a live and neutral so the earth wont affect it.


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## hippy132 (Jun 8, 2012)

staf82 said:


> Never heard it like that before, an earth wire is quite often the same as a neatral but is only used if the (hot) live wire comes into contact with it. It has little resistance and will cause a surge which pulls more current causing the circuit breaker to trip. With LED lights you will find the case is earthed but thats it, this is in case a live wire touches the case so that it trips the power so you dont get a shock. The transformer in the light will prob only have a live and neutral so the earth wont affect it.


Here, read this..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_and_neutral


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## hippy132 (Jun 8, 2012)

IMHO, BTW, Electronics Degree, although old one, so mabe grounds have changed, LOL


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## staf82 (Jun 8, 2012)

It's all the technical talk that confuses people including me, but its really pretty simple stuff. I'm a spark so have an idea but either way I agree don't take the earth pin out lol


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## WeJuana (Jun 11, 2012)

[video=youtube;I_iZLUVHhl4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_iZLUVHhl4&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## Psytranceorgy (Jun 11, 2012)

hahaha wow man that is one lanky dangly slut in the penetrator tent!!!


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## dickkhead (Jun 11, 2012)

nice wej! I sent you an email did you get it? Im noticing my black stars are finishing the plants earlier then my solar storm have you noticed an increase in time under the BS?


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## kckid816 (Jun 12, 2012)

kckid816 said:


> Just FYI, and being fair. Mike has answered my email and told me to send the panels to him (at my expense of course) for him to see what's wrong. I will update when he resolves the issue.


Mike's had my panels for about 5 days now. On my 2nd email again. Keeping everyone posted.


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## hippy132 (Jun 13, 2012)

And you will get them back and try again, isn't that what we all did and continue to do,... after all how can it be the lites????


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## kckid816 (Jun 14, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> And you will get them back and try again, isn't that what we all did and continue to do,... after all how can it be the lites????


Once I get my replacement panels they're going on Ebay. I'm fucking done with this shit company and the fucking scam artist Mike.


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## kckid816 (Jun 14, 2012)

kckid816 said:


> Mike's had my panels for about 5 days now. On my 2nd email again. Keeping everyone posted.


3rd email now.


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## PSUAGRO. (Jun 14, 2012)

kckid816 said:


> 3rd email now.


Sounds like you may need to threaten him with the BBB..........works for me


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## WeJuana (Jun 14, 2012)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Sounds like you may need to threaten him with the BBB..........works for me


lol the BBB is a scam on its own. You can pay your way into good "ratings!"


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## Shwagbag (Jun 15, 2012)

hippy132 said:


> And you will get them back and try again, isn't that what we all did and continue to do,... after all how can it be the lites????


I know I tinkered for way too long until I shelved them and bought another digi 600. They are still cranking my vegging plants though. They stretch a bit more but they're healthy and drink little. 

Mike doesn't give a shit about the BBB, his business is already ruined strictly from word of mouth. Its the worst service I've ever had from any product I've ever purchased, and I'm an active consumer lol. I bet he smokes kush for breakfast and plays Xbox most of the day! After all, he only works 4 hours per day lol.


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## kckid816 (Jun 16, 2012)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Sounds like you may need to threaten him with the BBB..........works for me


Yea, just played that card. I'm also going to initiate fraud procedures against him with my credit card to try and get him blocked as a merchant. I will also start a campaign with Paypal too. 

Also, I have a professional internet "marketer" that can automate message postings about his panels, his lack of support, and refusal to honor his warranty.


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## Heretic (Jun 17, 2012)

Just an update... I have my 2 modified 290's on veg duty and they do indeed seem to be performing well. A couple weeks and good growth. No burning.


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## PSUAGRO. (Jun 17, 2012)

kckid816 said:


> Yea, just played that card. I'm also going to initiate fraud procedures against him with my credit card to try and get him blocked as a merchant. I will also start a campaign with Paypal too.
> 
> Also, I have a professional internet "marketer" that can automate message postings about his panels, his lack of support, and refusal to honor his warranty.


I think Mike may have fucked with the wrong person^^^^...........looks like your right on track........good luck


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## hippy132 (Jun 18, 2012)

Vegging was never an issue, I vegged mine and threw under a 400 and 150 hps and they grow grrrate...


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 21, 2012)

kckid816 said:


> Yea, just played that card. I'm also going to initiate fraud procedures against him with my credit card to try and get him blocked as a merchant. I will also start a campaign with Paypal too.
> 
> Also, I have a professional internet "marketer" that can automate message postings about his panels, his lack of support, and refusal to honor his warranty.


Before I say anything, let me state I'm not affiliated with any LED companies, but I can speak from experience about the guys at Area 51.... If you'd like to have a pleasant customer service experience with complete disclosure and transparency, I'd at least give them a shout.... Ask them some questions, see if you like their responses. If my past experiences are any indication, they will completely inundate you with every piece of information possible about their products, LED's, drivers, heatsinks, and the selection processes they used to pick those specific parts, why they selected them, and the cost savings they can pass on to you because of those parts.

Again, don't take my word for it, I'm just some dude on the internet, send them a msg, make your own conclusions.... [email protected]


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## Shwagbag (Jun 21, 2012)

Hey Beef, can they provide a spectral analysis? That's something I would require if I were to ever consider using LED's again. I'm not interested in using LED's right now, but I'm curious if they would provide one.


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## kckid816 (Jun 30, 2012)

Well, at this point I have written the panels off. I haven't heard back from Mike despite him having my panels. I made my money back on them so I'm not out any real money, but it's the principle. My internet "marketer" friend is going to have a field day with his site (negative SEO is real), and I just might have to spam all irish's/mike's dickriders at his current forum.


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## Senseimilla (Jul 1, 2012)

That is totally f'ed up kid. - if I can make one suggestion, be sure to mention his company name in every message so people get it drilled in which one not to buy  I'd go to war over some shit like that. Is your grow legal (ie, is he gonna try and call the pigs on you for getting back at him??)

Schwag I don't know what happened with your blackstar (sucks you had the results you had), but mine worked plenty good for me so I could care less about spectral analysis -- I averaged 3-4oz/plant.  I wouldn't trust a spectral analysis anyway -- a scammer would provide a fake. IMO, other people's grows who you trust and a company that is reputable to deal with returns properly is all that matters.


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## dickkhead (Jul 1, 2012)

Yea I agree with sensi I've had great results with with black star 500 and 900 watt lights
infact i think the plants finish earlier and the resin production seems a lil higher as well


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## Senseimilla (Jul 1, 2012)

I wouldn't say there was any difference between led and my previous HPS grows other than there was a lot less stress on the plants due to less heat and I got higher yields/as big or bigger buds than my old 600w. No more or less resiny, etc. Just another kind of lighting with fewer heat issues to deal with. My LED plants need cal mag supplementation, but that was about it.

One of the reasons I went with multiple 240ws instead of one big light, besides spreading the light sources out, was that if one went down, I still had the others while the other one was away for repair. It'd be a damper but not a deal breaker. Gotta plan for these eventualities  My LED grow is less likely to have a major light outtage problem than any single light HPS or LEd system


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## dickkhead (Jul 4, 2012)

Senseimilla said:


> I wouldn't say there was any difference between led and my previous HPS grows other than there was a lot less stress on the plants due to less heat and I got higher yields/as big or bigger buds than my old 600w. No more or less resiny, etc. Just another kind of lighting with fewer heat issues to deal with. My LED plants need cal mag supplementation, but that was about it.
> 
> One of the reasons I went with multiple 240ws instead of one big light, besides spreading the light sources out, was that if one went down, I still had the others while the other one was away for repair. It'd be a damper but not a deal breaker. Gotta plan for these eventualities  My LED grow is less likely to have a major light outtage problem than any single light HPS or LEd system


good thinking on smaller multiple ones I also go with multiple 900 or a couple 900 and a 500, I did notice that they need more cal mag why is that? do you run hydro? and what nutes you use? I use dyna gro in hydro ( first round with it in hydro) and just finished a round in pro mix, the pro mix girls loved it when i added lime a few weeks into flower. what do you feed at?


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## Senseimilla (Jul 4, 2012)

No I'm soil and I have not heard a lot of great hydro/LED grows. There's no definitive answer on why the extra cal-mag for LEDs my best guess is that it's the spectrum the lights are at -- very tightly focused at two specific points in the spectrum so I'm guessing the extra energy at those spectrums requires a little more micronutrient support. It also is related to how close you have the lights (plant can't provide enough micronutes to keep up with the amount of energy due to closeness of light).


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## dickkhead (Jul 4, 2012)

and speaking of panels out ive had 2 solar storms one panel out of the 4 on the light go out on 2 seperate units. I called george and he had me the lights 3 days later with out me sending the old ones back first! these 2 that went out were from a production line in the fall that i guess had some issues with their heat sink, both are running strong now, he has great customer service!! Ive heard of real night mares where guys leds go out and there stuck, I cant imagine


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## WeJuana (Jul 5, 2012)

Sorry for the lack of updates all! My computer died and is getting worked on so I am borrowing a friends on post this.

HPS tent is cut and is drying, I will provide a total yield weight and then average yield per plant. LED Tents are coming down tomorrow!

I'll try to get pics but I cant make any promises until I have my own pc back again.


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## newworldicon (Jul 5, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> Sorry for the lack of updates all! My computer died and is getting worked on so I am borrowing a friends on post this.
> 
> HPS tent is cut and is drying, I will provide a total yield weight and then average yield per plant. LED Tents are coming down tomorrow!
> 
> I'll try to get pics but I cant make any promises until I have my own pc back again.


Hi Juana, excellent journals here. Have you considered the new X5 300W from hydroponicshut??


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## WeJuana (Jul 5, 2012)

newworldicon said:


> Hi Juana, excellent journals here. Have you considered the new X5 300W from hydroponicshut??


Thanks! As of recent I have just been focusing on getting this next round going in addition to trying to get the computer back in working condition. I have not had a chance to check out the specs on the new lights but it will be high on my list of things to do once I get my pc back!

Thanks for the question/info!


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## PSUAGRO. (Jul 5, 2012)

newworldicon said:


> Hi Juana, excellent journals here. Have you considered the new X5 300W from hydroponicshut??


yeah seen this...like how they say"worlds first true 5 watt panel"...it's like lumigrow and CLW never existed.....big lol at Ben


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## Endur0xX (Jul 6, 2012)

I have grown great plant with LEDs without cal-mag, I 12/12 from seed so maybe it makes a difference, or my supersoil is good. I have cal-mag, I have used it a few times as a preventive measure but not on all the plants and I didnt see any difference. This next batch of supersoil I will water the soil with a little bit of cal-mag before it cooks but I won't be using it at all during the grow, just plain water is working wonder for me right now.


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## Mohican (Jul 6, 2012)

Here is an LED update for the WJ site while his computer is down:











Cheers,
Mo


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## Shwagbag (Jul 11, 2012)

Beautiful pic!


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## Sub (Jul 16, 2012)

Pretty crazy grow going on here....

I tried to read it all but I admit after the first couple hours I skipped around to see all the results. Can't wait for the results from this latest trial!

Wejuana you are my hero for doing all of this research.

I learned to build PCs long before I learned about getting stoned, so if your computer is still down I'd be happy to help if needed.

I was happy to see the 600W HPS still "won" even if it likely used double the wattage to get there.(especially once you consider AC cost)

I'll definitely be looking into those Blackstars..... so tempting.


Also to add my personal experience to this mix - the first time I ever participated in a grow we started under CFLs and after vegging for like a month it was obviously not enough light.... the plant had grown fairly tall but not much leaf mass. So in all of our subtlety we figured a 1000 watt HPS/MH would perk it right up... Pure miracle grow soil in a 5 gallon bucket. Surprisingly it didn't even mind the change in intensity from a few CFLS.... to 1000 watts. We had a good cooling setup so that was not an issue. The plant was grown from a germinated schwag seed.(it was the only easy access seeds we had, and our friend had said the grow mattered more than the genetics) So anyway schwag plant took a good 12 weeks to flower, and we had MASSIVE PH problems that we had no idea what to do about.(so we did nothing) By the end of 12 weeks of flowering the plant did not have a single leaf left, all withered died by eight weeks, and the die off began shortly after starting flowering...... So anyway yes we grew buds on stems for 4 weeks under a 1000 watter..... The plant looked like it was begging for death, and when we finally cut her down we considered it mercy.

Anyway that grow with all of it's massive fail yielded 8.9 dry ounces of bud, and in fact it looked 1 million times danker than the headache inducing schwag it was descended from. This was all from dumb kids just trying to make a good grow with basically no serious research, and in my opinion it ended fairly well. Yes we nearly killed our plant, used miracle grow, stretched it, stressed it, heck we even picked bananas off that bitch like crazy from all the stress what with the whole plant dieing during flowering.... The bud was fairly light and fluffy but still had a good smoke to it and I didn't have to use way more to get my fix than any other decent bud I could buy around town. It cured up real nice and plenty of our friends were trying to get some, but we were all about keeping it !

So yes people don't lose hope even if your plant looks in poor shape, all that means is that the next one will for sure yield more, it doesn't mean your current plants are screwed.... I mean from my own example your can herm your plant, over water, over nute, over PH, and if your plant still has the right temperatures and gets light every day you will likely still yield something for your trouble.


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## Senseimilla (Jul 17, 2012)

Did it win? I thougth LED won on g/Watt, HPS just had the highest yield due to higher wattage... but I'm too lazy to go back and double check...


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## nasar (Jul 25, 2012)

hey wejuana where have you gone? we all waiting for updates


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## nasar (Jul 30, 2012)

the threads dyeing by the looks of it, where have you wejuana gutted your not hear to update and show us the results


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## Mohican (Jul 30, 2012)

My Kessil Results:





















It works! LED definitely needs a different nute regimen


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## johnnymcpotts (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm currently using spectra led, black star led and a 600 Hps. I've had issues with spectra burning too. I started using cal/mag and black strap molasis with every feeding and watering and so far it seems to be helping. Overall I think the blackstar panels do perform better than spectra and have a much better price. I've arranged my lights so they will get a mix of all lights in various stages but again it's too early to say and I'm still to new a grower to make any real claims.

I just love growing and hope to get better with each grow. Thanks to everyone for all the great posts! They help a lot, just wish I had all this info on Spectra lights before buying them. I could have picked up a ton of blackstar and still saved $$$. Irishboy/mike played us well.


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## fartman (Jul 31, 2012)

agreed amd stoneyluv but im still runnin off 2 spectra 290 s reduced and a blackstar 500 with great results


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## fartman (Jul 31, 2012)

i have to run a 9 week strain 11 wks tho,good shit


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## Shwagbag (Aug 1, 2012)

Mohican said:


> My Kessil Results:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess you could say it works, but results like this should steer people away from LED. This is what made me turn my LED's into exclusively veg lights. A 400W HPS would have crushed those results and I can see that you put some time into training them and keeping your setup clean and proper. Kudos to the test, but just more justification that LED's are not there yet. Thanks for sharing the results haven't seen the kessils yet.


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## puffenuff (Aug 1, 2012)

How many kessils did you use on that scrog mohican? H350 are only 70w each


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## Mohican (Aug 1, 2012)

Hey Puffenuff - I only used one H350 and I think it says 90 watts but it could be 70 watts. The funny thing though is that it bleached my plant from 4 feet away! The light is very intense. 

I should have kept the plant smaller. I also learned that some CFLs get hot and make my cab too hot causing root problems from hot res water. Without the CFLs the res stays at 76F. I also took out too many air stones. Roots need air apparently 

I made a bunch of mistakes but the LED was not one of them. I am adding a deep purple 350 for the next grow 


Cheers,
Mo


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## puffenuff (Aug 1, 2012)

Great results from so few watts mohican! I had a h350 magenta in my tent that read 70w on a killawatt meter. They are great lights for their wattage.im sure you will do better next run as well. Good luck!


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## frimon (Aug 1, 2012)

Hey guys...i just put 2-300watt LED Grow from AIBC in a box of 4X4x6 with 8inch duc work inlet and outlet for 8 plant and they took 2 weeks to grow 3 inchs..its that good?
its hydroponic system with all the basic a plan need to grow. ak-47 plants


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## Mohican (Aug 2, 2012)

Plants grow differently under LEDs. One of the LED growers said he needed to use more cal/mag. I also noticed that my plant did not like to have the LED too close. The light frequency is maxing out the plants processing ability. You need to watch your plants and see what they like. I only have one LED grow and after all of my mistakes I am still getting average results. The clones I got off of this girl are outside now and huge. The sun is the best but if you want a cool-running alternative then I would say LED is a great way to go. 

We need to find a strain that loves LED light! 


Cheers,
Mo


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## Senseimilla (Aug 4, 2012)

Mohican said:


> The light frequency is maxing out the plants processing ability. You need to watch your plants and see what they like.


That's it exactly, although my belief is not that it's maxing out the processing ability, but that the nutrients you have available are not keeping up with the plants increased needs  I found that by supplementing extra sources of ca & mg (extra epsom salt & crab shell meal) in my soil and making sure the lights were not too close that pretty much addressed all the issues. If you don't use in ground organics (the best way IMO as it means it is available to the plant 24/7 as needed by the plant) then you should supplement with ca-mg in your waterings as soon as you start seeing any typical LED associated issues (yellow mg def/burn signs in the leaves or ca def 'speckles' on the leaves getting direct lighting). Any plant that shows symptoms I start giving mild doses of ca-mg every watering. If problem gets worse I up the dose -- I have had to go over the recommended amount in a couple of cases where the strong dose wasn't heading it off. The plants that had the least amount of in ground organic fertilizers had the most issues under the LEDs for me. I can't complain though I was quite happy with what I got - certainly did not lack for yield or density I would doubt any of the people who have tried it would ever think it was any different than any other bud they've had.


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## Senseimilla (Aug 4, 2012)

I bet Wejuana is off either enjoying his harvest or maybe just trimming it  Damn I know it was hard during harvest time for me to do much BUT trim including smoking  And of course sometimes you just get burnt out on the website stuff and just need a break too... sure he'll be back


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## WeJuana (Aug 9, 2012)

The yield results are in! 

The results will be given in Gram/Plant average!

Spectra Tent - 57.1
Penetrator Tent - 62.9
Blackstar Tent - 67.0

Please remember that these yields are using 3 gal pots! Next round I will be using 5 gals and expect to see a noticeable increase.

I also wanted to comment that I LOVE using florescent lights for vegging! I think the combo of 12-12, bloom nutes along with the extreme color frequency change are really beneficial, as opposed to vegging under the LEDs the entire time.

This harvest turned out ohh soo nicely my friends! New lens arrives tomorrow; I'll post up some nug porn.

A big thank you to all people who read this thread for sticking it through to the end and waiting it out for the results!!


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## Senseimilla (Aug 9, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> The yield results are in!
> 
> The results will be given in Gram/Plant average!
> 
> ...


BOOM. 

I keep tryin to tell people. I averaged in the 40s on my smallest plants... my big girls came in at around 105g avg using just blackstars, airpots and supersoil, and if i had it to do over again today with i know i could yield even more.


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## robby102 (Aug 12, 2012)

Thanks to WeJuana, and all the other contributers to this thread, a great read and very helpful and informative.
I do have a couple of questions, maybe you guys can help me.

Of the results just published above, the overall yield appears to be +/- 60gms/plant, multiplied by 5 to each tent? equals around 300gms/tent or per light?
So production in this experiment was 1gm per led watt?
The advertising I have seen claims that one of these led 300w units is suposed to be equivelant to, or better than a 600w MH/HPS?
Would you not therefore be expecting production to be up in the region of 600gms for this light? (at 1gm/watt)?

I have also heard repeated mention of the LED units running cooler, producing less heat inside the grow room, but no one seems to actualy specify by how much they run cooler?
If I were to swop a 600w HPS for a 300w LED, How much heat (on a comparative basis) would it produce, Half? Quarter? Eighth?
I already position the ballast outside the grow area, so please ignore the considerable heat that comes from that, purely the HPS lamp/holder assembly against the LED unit? Any of you Tech guys got any Ideas?

Thanks


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## Heretic (Aug 12, 2012)

My 2 cents on the heat issue... I had 2 scaled down 290's at 400w total, and they produced significantly MORE heat in a tent than a 400w hps with the ballast outside the tent. I also have 3 240 HO blackstars, about 440w total, in a tent as well and I would say they are on par heat-wise with the same 400w hps. Basically it isn't a deal breaker like they want you to think, especially if you take the hps ballast out of the equation.


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## Senseimilla (Aug 12, 2012)

robby102 said:


> The advertising I have seen claims that one of these led 300w units is suposed to be equivelant to, or better than a 600w MH/HPS?
> Would you not therefore be expecting production to be up in the region of 600gms for this light? (at 1gm/watt)?


That is marketing hype, and hype that hurt LEDs a lot by building up an expectation they could not necessarily meet. 



robby102 said:


> I have also heard repeated mention of the LED units running cooler, producing less heat inside the grow room, but no one seems to actualy specify by how much they run cooler?
> If I were to swop a 600w HPS for a 300w LED, How much heat (on a comparative basis) would it produce, Half? Quarter? Eighth?
> I already position the ballast outside the grow area, so please ignore the considerable heat that comes from that, purely the HPS lamp/holder assembly against the LED unit? Any of you Tech guys got any Ideas?
> 
> Thanks


The heat issue is sort of a relative comparison. You can actually do better on heat with a well ventilated HPS. The advantage of an LED is that it is cooler/less heat buildup without the same ventilation. I haven't done any precise measurements... and it would depend on the wattage.... but an LED compared to a similar wattage HPS should run probably around 5 degrees or more cooler than an unventilated hps. I can only really compare the models I have.... but 2 of my 240w LEDs run cooler for me in the same space than a 400w light (that had a vent/inline fan) by over 5 degrees.

LEDs aren't a universal replacement for hps -- it mainly depends on your situation and goals.


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## shmowzow (Aug 14, 2012)

I too am a grower who got caught up in the hype. Say a bunch or reviews claiming that it was in excess of twice the yield etc... Last cycle I had led and hps side by side and they did do relatively the same. Hps was a lot denser for sure otherwise pretty equal. I am switching up my configuration drastically this time so we will see again. Last one was pots and 1 strain that turned out to be mediocre in content. I have several attitude strains from seed this time not hand me down clones. I am switching from pots that had ff soil and canna nutes to 4 separate 4x4 soil beds built to Soma specs with subcools supersoil and sunshine #4 on top. I am in my 4th day of seed germination so ill keep everyone posted. I am fairly new so any tips would be invited. Oh Led lights are 1 336x pro over 1 bed and 5 168x pro Hydro Gro over 2 beds and I have 1 600 hps over 1 bed.


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## Senseimilla (Aug 14, 2012)

You'll get better results with the super soil I bet -- my super soil plants did far better on yields than the ones that had little or no super soil under my LEDs - i believe they help provide optimal nutrient availability when the plant needs it. 

Hope you post a growthread sounds like something i'd like to see!


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## Shwagbag (Aug 14, 2012)

i grew under LED's and in super soil. The lights still sucked. lol


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## shmowzow (Aug 14, 2012)

I certainly hope so I have quite a few strains I am testing as well. I have already started taking some pics of all my new girls hoping for greatness in the end. As much loot as those lights cost i sure deserve it i think ha ha


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## shmowzow (Aug 14, 2012)

Damn sure hope not like I said my last grow was alright yielded roughly 2 per plant at 3 weeks veg. was hoping to do better with the supersoil and switching from 3 gallon pots to raised beds. from what everyone says I definitely should It will be my first time doing a journal but I will keep everyone posted with pics etc... already loving the look of my dutch passion blueberry, the delicious seeds cotton candy, and my g13 labs Hypnotic. Have a few other freebies and what not. will post pics soon.


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## TopShelfT$ (Aug 14, 2012)

hey how many plants did you have in each tent?


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## shmowzow (Aug 14, 2012)

No tent all In same room 4 plants in a 4x4 area under each set of lights 16 total. I have a limit of 30 so i stay way under.


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## TopShelfT$ (Aug 15, 2012)

how many plants did you have in each tent?


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## WeJuana (Aug 17, 2012)

Some pics as promised.. before the destruction and burning of these beautiful nugins.


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## topogigo (Aug 26, 2012)

just one question now im not positive but shouldnt u have gotten the xpro 3 watt and dropped down to the 189 model for a more accurate comparison i mean if thats the case u totally shorthanded the hydrogrow led with .07 watts compared to the other 2 blackstar and whatever the other one was spectra im not tryin to stir up anytype of negative vibes but under the guidlines of tech.specs the 1 watt is dropped to .07 for longer life and the 3 watters r dropped to what 2.5 or something right ,i have done all kinds of research and i came across this post loved it by the way but feel that its not quite a fair fight like 3 people go in 2 have machine guns and the third has a saturday night special gun of course the saturday special is gonna be below the other 2 just my thought on this subject. the x to x pro is a big diff in penatrationput me in my place if i am outta line.


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## WeJuana (Sep 11, 2012)

I do definitely acknowledge that there is a difference in wattage, however I do not at all feel that the other lights were necessary. If you are merely looking to figure the grams per watts, one can take the average yield per plant and do the math needed with each light's wattage to give the gram/watt figure if that is what you need to know. I am here to document my grows, and all though I did try to match wattage similarly, I must admit that was not top priority overall for the testing. My main goal when I started this thread was just to share my grow and display some different types of LED's and show they can in fact grow awesome meds.



topogigo said:


> just one question now im not positive but shouldnt u have gotten the xpro 3 watt and dropped down to the 189 model for a more accurate comparison i mean if thats the case u totally shorthanded the hydrogrow led with .07 watts compared to the other 2 blackstar and whatever the other one was spectra im not tryin to stir up anytype of negative vibes but under the guidlines of tech.specs the 1 watt is dropped to .07 for longer life and the 3 watters r dropped to what 2.5 or something right ,i have done all kinds of research and i came across this post loved it by the way but feel that its not quite a fair fight like 3 people go in 2 have machine guns and the third has a saturday night special gun of course the saturday special is gonna be below the other 2 just my thought on this subject. the x to x pro is a big diff in penatrationput me in my place if i am outta line.


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## WeJuana (Sep 11, 2012)

This thread has been an awesome avenue for me to document my grows! Everybody who stopped by the thread, I thank you and greatly appreciate it! Thanks to all who added input for your participation, and thank you to all the lurkers too.. your not forgotten! It is now that time to call this one done; It is conclusive that LED's can in fact grow high quality meds without sacrificing your yield.

On to the next grow I go! If you have any interest in following please do so > Wejuana Comeback! <LED vs LED> Blackstar Chrome 720 VS Penetrator 336x-Pro

One Love!
-Wejuana


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## Psytranceorgy (Sep 11, 2012)

Awesome thread WeJuana. Thank you!!! See you over on the new one =D


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## Senseimilla (Sep 11, 2012)

Yup it was a good one. Will be checking out the new one


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## Bluezdude (Sep 15, 2012)

Very nice work mate, congrats. I'm about to start my own led grow now and your thread was really helpfull. Ta very much, mucho rep to you


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 15, 2012)

WeJuana said:


> *On to the next grow I go!* If you have any interest in following please do so > Wejuana Comeback! <LED vs LED> Blackstar Chrome 720 VS Penetrator 336x-Pro
> 
> One Love!
> -Wejuana


[video=youtube_share;WM1RChZk1EU]http://youtu.be/WM1RChZk1EU[/video]

On to the next one....


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## Poe Kerbuddons (Oct 1, 2012)

@WeJauna

Is there a way the actual grow information of this thread can be condensed? It seems like an amazing resource ~ especially considering I think LEDs are the growing of the future(until we can safely and easily put a star in a bottle) and I've decided to only ever use them in my growing ~ and I want to make sure I start out right, but it's about gods' ballsout irritating having to shuffle through all the blah blah blahs to get the solid information. 

FYI, I went with a Blackstar 240 Vegetative for now. It was purely a price function. I figure if it the brand was a hard hitter enough to be in a consideration with lights two to three times its price it was good enough for me to drop three hundred on it. Plus I can incubate the babies under the veg light until I can save up for the corresponding flowering light. It's good logic, I reckon.

And hey, what's up with the new Blackstar Chromes? They look suspiciously similar to the Penetrator Extreme series, yeah? This is probably being talked about elsewhere. I should maybe look.


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## Senseimilla (Oct 5, 2012)

Be sure and follow up on here how you're doing with your blackstars -- i have a lot of experience with'em in case you run into any grow issues you think may be related -- not the chromes though


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## shmowzow (Oct 7, 2012)

I have a couple pics to share of my led grow. I put 1 600 in the mix just to compare. It is true that i have a bunch of different strains going in the interest of narrowing it down to the 4 I like, but i put 3 super silver haze under the 600 and 3 under the 336xpro from hydrogrow and the 336xpro looks to be outperforming the 600 by a wide margin so far. I am in my 2nd week of 12/12 after 2 weeks of 18/6 using a soma bed and sub cools supersoil.


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## rocknratm (Mar 14, 2013)

im kinda just jumping in here... anyone know anything about these new Sol from hydro grow?
summer will kill me for heat and these seem affordable
*http://www.hydrogrowled.com/Sol-6---300W-LED-Grow-Light-P161C59.aspx

http://www.hydrogrowled.com/Sol-LED-Grow-Lights-C59.aspx

oh and another thanks to WeJuana!*


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## hippy132 (Mar 15, 2013)

Buy an AC and pay for electricity it will be cheaper and one 600 is so much better than any damn LED, IMHO...


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## newworldicon (Mar 16, 2013)

robby102 said:


> Thanks to WeJuana, and all the other contributers to this thread, a great read and very helpful and informative.
> I do have a couple of questions, maybe you guys can help me.
> 
> Of the results just published above, the overall yield appears to be +/- 60gms/plant, multiplied by 5 to each tent? equals around 300gms/tent or per light?
> ...


Allow me to ask this question, how many people genuinely get 1g/watt or 600g of dry product under a 600W HID/HPS? I think we all know the answer to that question...most don't. However having gone from HPS to LED I can honestly say that getting 1g/watt is much easier done than with HID.

Regarding your temp question, I believe through experimentation with my LED that temps of 84/85 are going to result in better yields as opposed to 78. With HID the surrounding air tempreture may be 78 but the temp at the leaves are going to be 84/85. Whilst I understand the science/biology behind it I may not be that great at explaining it to you, I am sure someone else may chip in on that. Either way my experience tells me this works, I harvest every 2 weeks so see the entire process many times over and over.


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## WeJuana (Mar 18, 2013)

Hey all! I have been continuing to test LEDs, and I will be resuming my updates on this thread! This is from the most recent light tested, the Blackstar Chrome 720w LED.

[video=youtube;1E9ZwleA2d8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E9ZwleA2d8[/video]

The dry weight results from the Blackstar 720w Chrome tent are in!

If you have been following the grow, you know there were 6 plants in the tent, but the Trinity Kush plant was just not happy with the nute regiment and got overgrown. It turned out so snickely it has been discontinued from the garden and the plant was turned to hash. The following results are based off of 5 plants.

With that said, the LED results are quite close to the 69.3 gram per plant average I just yielded from a 1000w magnetic ballast tent.

Watch the video for the complete breakdown.

Results:
Total Yield: 324.8 grams
AVG Grams per plant: 64.96 

Blackstar Chrome 720w -http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/feat...


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## WeJuana (Mar 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;gcwhaUKoeZ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcwhaUKoeZ0[/video]

Here is a video of my current grow and the most recent update. If you have a Youtube feel free to subscribe to me > www.youtube.com/user/GrowBigTV


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## WeJuana (Mar 23, 2013)

[video=youtube;ll78etnauoc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll78etnauoc[/video]

And people say LEDs cant grow/flower healthy cannabis.. lol


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## WeJuana (May 16, 2013)

[video=youtube;yS8JLtcilbM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS8JLtcilbM[/video]

GrowBlu LED Yield Results:
Plant 1 - 89.1
Plant 2 - 82.3
Plant 3 - 72.2
Plant 4 - 88.1
Plant 5 - 79.5


Total: 411.2 Grams


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## WeJuana (Jun 5, 2013)

Welcome the Black Dog BD450-U LED to the testing tent.
(http://www.blackdogled.com/BD450-U.html)




This is my first time attempting a grow with a 5w LED and I am very excited to see what comes of this!


Check the thread, testing begins shortly > https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/561749-wejuana-comeback-led-vs-led-18.html


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## WeJuana (Sep 3, 2013)

I think it's finally time to sell off some of my lights that aren't being used and I figured I would give people on the forum first dibs on the lights. 


All lights are in excellent condition, fully functional and have only been used for 1 harvest period (approx 700 hours).


Spectra (GrowHydroLED)
(3) Spectra LED 180 - $300 each or $800 for all 3


Blackstar
Lighthouse Hydro BlackStar 500w LED Grow Light UV - $325 
Lighthouse Hydro BlackStar 900w LED Grow Light UV - $525
Lighthouse Hydro BlackStar Chrome 720w LED Grow Light FSF - $600


HydroGrowLED
336X-PRO - 500W LED Grow Light - $1000


*PM me if you are interested in purchasing, first come first serve basis. *


All prices include shipping to anywhere in the lower 48 WITH SHIPPING INSURANCE and I will have them sent out within 48 hours of receiving payment. Payment via PayPal to cover both parties.


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