# Photoperiod for Larger Yields



## flipsidesw (Jul 8, 2008)

I read about in the grow faq. Do people commonly practice manipulating the photoperiod for 1 to 2 weeks during flowering. If so how do you when to switch to 21/12.... Anyone messed with this before?


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## tyeee (Jul 9, 2008)

yeah i would like to know more about this aswell....


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## rkm (Jul 9, 2008)

When I get down to the last few weeks of 12/12 I start dropping the time down by one hour each week until I get to 8 hours of light a day. Cant say that it makes a difference or not, but just what I have always done. I cant complain about the results, it works for me so I stick with it.


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## flipsidesw (Jul 9, 2008)

Thats interesting rkm... I more curious about adding more hours of light... I dont see the benefit of subtracting light... P.S. Where you high when you posted that?


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## IGTHY (Jul 9, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> I read about in the grow faq. Do people commonly practice manipulating the photoperiod for 1 to 2 weeks during flowering. If so how do you when to switch to 21/12.... Anyone messed with this before?


Depends on what you want your plant to do ie; veg or flower. In flower you can switch the hours to 14/10 to speed up ripening of the flowers or in veg you can leave them on for 24/0 for veg or if it's your mother. All depends on what you want your plant to do. KEEP SMOKE ALIVE!!


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## Snookster (Jul 9, 2008)

I read somewhere that if you stress WW for the last two weeks of flowering, (no lights at all), she strains her resins BIG TIME and the growth rate is really good. Have not tried it yet, but sounds intriguing. Must work on other strains as well IMO.


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## bonz (Jul 9, 2008)

i do this method and the way i understand it and what seems to work for me is:
i shorten the daylight period over the last little bit of flowering time to 10 hours. i have read that any less and they stop producing thc. the idea is that the plant will think it`s late fall and will want to naturaly reproduce itself, so it speeds up the final resining and sort of seals up the buds. but before they can start making flowers to reproduce you take it down. if you increase the light at the end it will most likely hermie.

i dont know if you mean at the end like this or do you mean at the begining of flowering going from 18/6 gradualy down to 12/12. if so that dosn`t do anything except drag the veg on longer and delay our mission, BUDS


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## rkm (Jul 10, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Thats interesting rkm... I more curious about adding more hours of light... I dont see the benefit of subtracting light... P.S. Where you high when you posted that?


I wasnt at the moment but was working on it. My thinking is If you were doing 18/6 for veg and it takes 12/12 to make it start flowering, why would you go back the other way giving it more light? The idea of cutting the lights down is to simulate the shorter days at the end of the season, not to make the plant think spring is on its way again. In my mind working it down steadily to 8 hours of light a day hopefully tells the plant to get its ass in gear because the cold is really on its way and better finish reproducing quickly. Sometimes I dont make it to the 8 hour length, if the plant finishes before I get there then I harvest. I dont set that gradual decrease to 8 hours goal in concrete, its just a guide that I use.


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## flipsidesw (Jul 10, 2008)

I appreciate you guys replyin' but would you please read the GROWFAQ... Its about adding more light when in full bloom... From what i take from it you would start adding the extra light around week 6.... The idea was to get more growth during daylight hours putting off harvest up to a week.... The photoperiord would be 21:36/12.... Peace 
Read the article before posting.. Hopefully someone who has done this will reply..
growfaq>advanced cultivation techniques>Improving yields>larger yields> READ IT>Post.....


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## rkm (Jul 10, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> I appreciate you guys replyin' but would you please read the GROWFAQ... Its about adding more light when in full bloom... From what i take from it you would start adding the extra light around week 6.... The idea was to get more growth during daylight hours putting off harvest up to a week.... The photoperiord would be 21:36/12.... Peace
> Read the article before posting.. Hopefully someone who has done this will reply..
> growfaq>advanced cultivation techniques>Improving yields>larger yields> READ IT>Post.....


Then why did you even waste space posting this asking for opinions if you only want answers that agree with the FAQ? Just go with the FAQ and see if you are happy with the results, you dont need our input for that. Besides, the FAQ is on the internet so its gotta be true.


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## flipsidesw (Jul 10, 2008)

I do want opinions. Thats why i posted it. Im just hoping to get feed back from someone that has tried it. I thought that was what this website was about..


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## techhead420 (Jul 11, 2008)

I would take that grow faq with a rather large grain of salt and it should most definately NOT be considered the final authority of growing pot.

I go from 24 hour light (marijuana does not need to "rest") and right into 12/12 for the flowering duration. What you should not do is cut back to a 10/14 cycle, this lessens the amount of photosynthetic activity and some studies and research have shown a decrease in THC production (source: Marijuana Botany page 123).

If you do go with a longer light cycle, say 14/10, then on top of the potential yield you need to add in the cost of the extra grow time. If you have an 8 week plant then you'd need to get an extra 12-15% yield to make it worth while if the plants take 9 weeks to mature, for example.


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## flipsidesw (Jul 11, 2008)

It says 40% for only 4 extra days... Pretty dope... I have to try it.. If you think about it at or at least from what i know it takes a certain amount a 12 hour dark periods for a plant to be ready for harvest.. I would guess thats predetermined by genetics, that being said why not give the plant some extra hours of light to fatten up.. I really think there something to this theory. I wish i was more educated. When i get to week six im gonna do 21:36/12 and see what happens.. I already have a hermie what harm could it do..


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## Hags (Jul 11, 2008)

i flowered for an entire week on a different schedule of 12/12 and it didnt make anything go quicker, or slower.....


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## bonz (Jul 11, 2008)

to start with if you already have a hermie watch it dosen`t pollenate the rest and end up with all seeds.
here`s some evidence to back my theory, i geusse we need to take the sientists with a grain of salt also. 

source: shadowace

72Hrs Darkness before harvest
increases THC in the Bud
The Stichting Institute of Medical Marijuana (SIMM), the first company to sell marijuana through the pharmacies of Holland, has been investigating the medical possibilities of cannabis, together with TNO laboratories and the University of Leiden. One of their discoveries has been that to keep the ripe plants in the dark before harvesting could increase their potency. 
SIMMs growers separated a crop of mature plants, harvested half of them and kept the other half in absolute darkness for 72 hours before cutting and drying. Analysis of the resulting dried buds showed that some varieties had seen an increase of THC of up to 30%, while CBD and CBN remained the same. 





THE PROCESS 
The biosynthesis or production of cannabinoids in the plant follows a chemical process in which some cannabinoids are converted into others. First produced is CBD, which is transformed into THC, and finally into CBN. For this reason plants harvested before their time will contain more, CBD will not have reached its peak. On the other hand, those picked a little late will have more CBN than CBD, and will now have lost some of their THC. There is a perfect moment of ripeness, where the maximum THC is available for the savvy harvester. This can be judged by watched the color of the resin glands - when they start to turn yellow or amber, its time to cut, hang and dry.

FAST OR SLOW? 
We want fast, nature wants slow. Plants need space to grow in, and time. Further time is needed for drying. Human impatience, either for the buzz or for the profit, and the extreme pressure of growing under prohibition, has shaped our cannabis market to suit its own ends, rather than those of us consumers. For exampe, has led to a preference for indica strains (eg Northern Lights) over sativa, because they grow faster and are smaller, needing less space. Plus they win out in the THC stakes - a stronger, more immediate, and heady buzz. (Interestingly, under prohibition of alcohol in the USA, consumption of beer fell while that of hard liquor rose you can get more dollars for a car boot full of illicit whisky than three or four of beer. Less to carry, easier to hide during transport, and at home too. This circumstance produced more alcoholics at a faster rate, since people were now drinking to get drunk rather than sit around enjoying charming flavours.) In a legal market, extra time and extra space would not be at such a premium and consumers would find a wider range of plants, and arguably, much greater delight, on the market. So, if you want a weed that gives more than a fast strong buzz, youll have trouble finding that on the black market. Yet another case of: if you want something done properly, do it yourself. There are plenty of sativa seeds out there looking for good patient homes. Stop choosing the ones with the shortest grow periods! OK, theyll take a little longer, and a bit more room, but you may be very pleased with results.


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## techhead420 (Jul 11, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> It says 40% for only 4 extra days... Pretty dope... I have to try it.. If you think about it at or at least from what i know it takes a certain amount a 12 hour dark periods for a plant to be ready for harvest.. I would guess thats predetermined by genetics, that being said why not give the plant some extra hours of light to fatten up.. I really think there something to this theory. I wish i was more educated. When i get to week six im gonna do 21:36/12 and see what happens.. I already have a hermie what harm could it do..


The fact the the FAQ says "40% for only 4 extra days" is the reason that this FAQ needs to be taken with a grain of salt.


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## flipsidesw (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks for that bro
ill keep that in mind... Anyone out there willing to touch the topic of this forum?


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## crotalus (Jul 11, 2008)

I posted a question concerning that same article in the faq. Nobody really had any answers for me. The way I remember, it wasn't very clear as to what it meant by 40%. The first time I read it, I took it to mean 40% greater yeild. I went back and read it later and thought the author was trying to say that the plants get 40% more light energy and therefore may have more grow potential accordingly. I had thought about trying this, but since the plants in my flowering room were in different stages of bloom, it would have been too difficult. I know that if you switch to 14/10 during flowering, you are supposed to have a greater yield, but flowering takes longer and buds are supposed to be more leafy. If you decide to try that 21/12 schedule or whatever it is, be sure to let us know how it turns out. I would be really interested to hear. Where the hell do they sell timers that would work for a schedule like that anyway?


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## flipsidesw (Jul 11, 2008)

Ya i totally feel what ur saying. I didnt think i would get and extra couple of ounces lol. I figure its worth trying. I think the best time to start the 21:36/12 would be right around when the buds really start to form. Like week 6 wouldnt you agree that would be the time to try it?


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## techhead420 (Jul 12, 2008)

crotalus said:


> I know that if you switch to 14/10 during flowering, you are supposed to have a greater yield, but flowering takes longer and buds are supposed to be more leafy. If you decide to try that 21/12 schedule or whatever it is, be sure to let us know how it turns out. I would be really interested to hear. Where the hell do they sell timers that would work for a schedule like that anyway?


The 21/12 or something close could possibly work. The photo period is determined by the amount of darkness not the amount of light. It's a rather interesting idea.

You'll likely have to build your own timer in this situation using a microcontroller. I'm going to give this a try with a plant to see what happens.


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## waterandmetal (Aug 11, 2008)

im with RKM and everyone else who has said cutting the light down to eight hours by the end. The thing to remember is that when growing indoors, you are nature, and that your plants follow the rules of nature as well. The trick is to make the grow enviroment as stressless as possible. When you've entered flowering the trick is to slowly tamper your light off. I personally light to start at 18 and 1/2 light to 5 1/2 dark for veg. Then when I enter micro I bring it down to 16/8. Then at the beggining of flowering I go 14/10 for the first week or two then 12/12 when they're well off, slowly tampering down to around 9/15 for the last week. Im with RKM on using the eight hour as a guide rather then a set goal. 
Now i'll tell you this from experience (I've increased a crops light cycle as an experiment on this very subject) and when you increase the light cycle midbloom to anything above 12 the plant freaks. Internally at 12/12 the plant is in heavy flower hormone production, and if you increase the light then suddenly the plants flowering hormone production is corrupted, and this will actually throw off bud production horribly.
In my crop i had strong signs of preflowering at 16/8, then at 12/12 for two weeks heavy bud production. when the light was increased the bud production slowed heavily, and on two of the plants stop entirely. After a period of this for about a week and a half reversion to flowering came back slow, two of my plants became hermaphodites, and one changed gender fully to a male. 
This gender change shows that any change in the photoperiod is far far far too stressful for the plants during flowering, and is just a stupid move.
The only reason you'd have a problem with the amount of light is if the light you were using for flowering was flourescent or lower, HID lights will never have this problem
And as for how the plant reacts when the light is further reduced, just like everyone else has said, lowering the light cycle towards eight sends a signal to the plant that frost is about to come and that its chance to reproduce is rapidly closing. This causes a rapid incrase in resin and THC production (both of which are used to attract pollen carrying insects and to trap the pollen) in a mad attempt to pollinate. This as it was well put "seals the deal"


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## GypsyBush (Sep 27, 2008)

Ok, I really don't mean to be a dick here.... and almost everyone here had a valid point... Kudos and + Rep to you...

But... I still wonder ....

If you start with a 24/0 for vegging and say... switch to 21:36/12, then would there really be a lot of stress, since that is the only thing theses plants know... or is it???? do plants know they are on Earth? and that our days are 24 hours long???? wow... smart plants....lol

Anyway... even if a slightly longer period is required before harvest, would there be any improvements... or even differences???

Has anyone experimented with this from the beginning...???

I hope Flip is still around.... did you ever look further into this...?

Well...???

Gypsy...


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## flipsidesw (Sep 27, 2008)

Im still around...

I plan to try it on my next grow. I plan on doing a pretty informative grow journal on it. Im weeks away tho waiting on mothers for clones.. Just keep ur subscription and ill put up a link to my grow journal when i get it goin. Happy tokes FLip


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## GypsyBush (Sep 27, 2008)

Cool Man Thanks!!!

I'll be waiting...

Gypsy...


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## dazed76 (Sep 29, 2008)

fucking rooks lol veg 24 hr flower 48 hr dark then 21on 12 off for 1 week then 10 on 14 off 1 week then 12 12 lolwhen 48 hrs of darkness occurs the plant releases hormones and as long as you keep 12 hours of darkness for the first week on a 21 12 cycle ull fool them and they wil super stretch begin bud bloom after 48 hr period to promote more budding sites its trickyif u fuck up hermie time not for novice


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## born2killspam (Sep 29, 2008)

Alot of ppl who live far from the tropics have the misconception that the summer days are long.. In actuality, summer days @ 23.5° are only about 13.5 hours long IIRC, and at the equator daylight fractionally outlasts night time year round.. 
Those are the environmental conditions the original sativas evolved in growing over 20' tall.. Pay attention to pheno expression if you play with this.. Its widely believed that indica/ruderalis evolved from sativa due to environmental changes very similar to playing with a non 24hr day..


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## davemoney (Sep 30, 2008)

Snookster said:


> I read somewhere that if you stress WW for the last two weeks of flowering, (no lights at all), she strains her resins BIG TIME and the growth rate is really good. Have not tried it yet, but sounds intriguing. Must work on other strains as well IMO.


wurd bro, i do the same. it made the THC on the buds just glisten!


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## data (Sep 30, 2008)

even if it may work you cant with different stages of plants in the flowering room.
or using sog.


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## mrbeefs17 (Sep 30, 2008)

dazed76 said:


> fucking rooks lol veg 24 hr flower 48 hr dark then 21on 12 off for 1 week then 10 on 14 off 1 week then 12 12 lolwhen 48 hrs of darkness occurs the plant releases hormones and as long as you keep 12 hours of darkness for the first week on a 21 12 cycle ull fool them and they wil super stretch begin bud bloom after 48 hr period to promote more budding sites its trickyif u fuck up hermie time not for novice


Do you still flush out yer nutes 2 weeks prior to harvest.. so would you do it once you get into the 12/12 cycle or during the 10/14 and harvest when 12/12 week is over?


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## flipsidesw (Oct 1, 2008)

never heard of someone doing 10/14, However lots do 14/10.


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## GypsyBush (Oct 1, 2008)

So no one here really has experimented with the 21:36/12....

I see a few opinions, some even related.... but nothing that follows the thread's original intention....

Bummer...

Flip... we will have to just do some experimentation on our own...

When my next batch goes into flowering I will do that consistently for the entire flowering period...

I kinda have a feeling that for this to work, without stressing the hell out of them, would be to switch from 24/0 to 21:36/12...

That way, the plants have only known this photo period... and shouldn't be confused... or stressed...

Do plants have an internal biological clock tied to the 24 hour days on Earth???? 

Anyone....???

Catch you later Filp....

Gypsy....


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## flipsidesw (Oct 1, 2008)

Yea I hear ya...
I thiink that MJ needs "X" amount periords of darkness. Maybe to say it 
needs 60 periods of 12 hour darkness to produce the buds to the point most desireable by Us. A point to conisder, if you let a plant flower beyond peak harvest time for US, it will eventually die right. Why does it die then? No frost is comin we're inside! Think about veg i mean given enough light and never flowered who knows how tall it would get. Why isn't flowering the same? I think it because it has predetermined periods of darkness. What i dont get it is why 21:36/12. Why 36 min? why not 33 or 38 1/2?

This grow faq is old as hell even older that riu and noone has tried this. I kinda find that odd.


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## GypsyBush (Oct 1, 2008)

From what I understood, it really doesn't matter ...

It is for our convenience that someone figured it out like that... but I have not tested the math yet...

The idea is that if you start this on a monday.... by next monday the time will be back to the original time you started last monday...

That way, you don't have to keep re-adjusting your multi-day digital timer...

Every week ends up with the same schedule...

So you program it once and forget...

Does that make sense...????

The dude on the FAQ did this because it seems he only did it for a few weeks.... so by the end of week 2, he could reset his 12/12 on the same times as before.... does THAT make any sense...???

I still gotta double check the math though, I played with it for a minute but I was not getting it right... so I'll go back to it later...

What's your thought???


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## flipsidesw (Oct 1, 2008)

No fucking idea... I thought maybe a day wasnt scientifically 24 hours exactly. I havent been able to find anything to say otherwise tho and all the figures i could find lead crunch perfect so really i dont know. Im gonna check some other sites and see if anyone knows what really goin down.


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## born2killspam (Oct 1, 2008)

No, you missed his point on the scheduling..
1440min/day*7days=10080min
33:36=2016min
2016min*5=10080min
So it takes exactly the same amount of time to do 5 21:36/12 days as it does 7 12/12 days..


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## GypsyBush (Oct 1, 2008)

All right...

Now we're getting somewhere...

Thanks!!!


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

Yea thats helpfull bro!! 

So born what are ur thoughts?


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## HippieMan (Oct 2, 2008)

pretty sure that "big boost at the end of flowering" doesn't apply to high quality sativas ;}


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## born2killspam (Oct 2, 2008)

I've played with more equatorial days like I mentioned, but have never actually tried the 5 day week.. A flowering cycle is going to cost you 1.8x the electricity, and take 1.4x as long, and I highly doubt you'll get 2.5x the yield, so for commercial/perpetual growers, better production would be surely be seen on 12/12.. For a single run small scale grow though it would be interesting to see how much more could be achieved in a crop.. Strain specific I assume..
Also, plants can become light saturated near the end of a day, especially if CO2 isn't adequate for the light level.. Too many electrons build up in triplet state, and start dumping their energy on any random molecule that will accept it.. The plant also starts photorepirating O2.. This ends up in the production of superoxides, peroxides, and aldehydes that can damage the chloroplast for future photosynthesis.. Plants have evolved defenses against this, but in a way you could look at this reduction of chloroplasts as a defense mechanism in itself.. It is a factor thats going to make the effect of increasing a photoperiod strain, and environment specific.. (I find myself saying that alot..)
The idea has been around a long time.. I remember reading of this on overgrow.. I'm pretty sure ppl there actually had results, but I don't remember much for details..
As for the shock&awe technique Dazed mentioned, I wouldn't try it unless you can afford to lose it.. And if it goes well, then I hope you cloned, and have a mother because its going to be another craps shoot with any other genetics I assume.. (His schedule was WHACKED!.. More extreme light reduction does tend to start flowering alot faster though, anybody whos grown indoors and outdoors knows that..


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## Jenisonc (Oct 2, 2008)

I honestly think that bringing the light to 10/14 would be the best. Any longer and the plant wants to go back in to veg. which doesnt help you. If you drop that time the plant should, in theory, think its later in the season and work harder to produce. IMO only.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

Good stuff.

Im starting to get the urge to bail and run off with my tail between my legs. Hey Gypsy why dont u try it first and if it works well for you, ill give it a whirl. Hehe


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## MrFishy (Oct 2, 2008)

I really doubt anyone could fool Ma Nature unless perhaps they deducted 3 minutes a night, as the average day length shortens in reality. I've tried most timing schemes in my 30+ years inside and it ends up just making the whole growing experience more difficult and prone to confusion. I don't believe it's likely one will increase harvest by enough to make the mental investment worthwhile. I suppose it's something to do while you're waiting, IF you're only growing a couple of plants. 
Believe me . . . I wish I could report magical results, but nothing comes to mind.


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## GypsyBush (Oct 2, 2008)

I'll try a tray with 6 clones... but I will figure out new math so that the cycle lasts 7 days instead of 5 ...

They will go fom 24/0 to whatever/12... constant from start to finish...

It won't be until I get home in a couple of months... I refuse to waste flowering space in my hotel room... lol...

I'll post here when the time comes...

Till next time...

Be Well...

Gypsy...


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

Hotel? how do yo pulll that one off?


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

I think the 7 day would be 12/12.. haha


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## potroast (Oct 2, 2008)

Why are you guys still talking about this? Techhead420 told you that less than 12 hours of light per day will result in less THC produced. He only cited the page number in Marijuana Botany for you to read. So here it is, like I've copied in threads on this board for years:




Marijuana Botany said:


> Research has shown (Valle et al. 1978 ) that *twice as much THC* is produced under a 12-hour photoperiod than under a 10-hour photoperiod.


(emphasis added)

Therefore, I give my plants _as much_ light as I can give them, while keeping them in flowering.

HTH


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## GypsyBush (Oct 2, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> I think the 7 day would be 12/12.. haha


isn't 100% of 100... 347??????

Sheeessh, this smoke must better than I thought.... ROLMAO at my own stupidity....



flipsidesw said:


> Hotel? how do yo pulll that one off?


Well, I have been here since Feb., when I mangled my leg...

Because of that, I have an abnormal amount of personal stuff in my room...

It was easy to convince management that it would better for them if I did my own cleaning... thus avoiding any potential ... miss understandings...

They loved the idea of not being responsible for my stuff...

I keep them small, micro if you will... at 5 weeks of flowering, the biggest one is 5 inches tall and 12 inches wide...

Take a peek at my sig... lots of pics ...

See you guys when I figure out exactly how many hours are in eleventeen days.... LOL


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## GypsyBush (Oct 2, 2008)

potroast said:


> Why are you guys still talking about this? Techhead420 told you that less than 12 hours of light per day will result in less THC produced. He only cited the page number in Marijuana Botany for you to read. So here it is, like I've copied in threads on this board for years:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Potroast... we are actually talking about more than 12 hours of light per 12 hours of dark... like 20 light /12 dark...

Any thoughts on that?


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## potroast (Oct 2, 2008)

Yes, my thoughts are exactly as has already been mentioned, that while it _may_ increase yield some, but not potency, it's not worth the time. In the extra time that it takes for that crop to ripen, I can have another crop almost halfway through flowering.

HTH


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## GypsyBush (Oct 2, 2008)

OK... like Flip said... maybe it's time...

"Im starting to get the urge to bail and run off with my tail between my legs."

Thanks everyone... but if I do do it... I'll make sure to post it...

Gypsy...


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## born2killspam (Oct 2, 2008)

No, any longer than 14/10 and the plant may not flower too well, but nothing near 10/14 will cause it to re-enter veg.. And the flowering hormone is triggered by dark period length, not light period.. 
Basically you're torturing your plant, breaking down its mental faculties its more impressionable to brain washing.. (Torture 101 obviously).. Then you let it rebuild physically for a week under relatively stress free conditions.. Then you tell it that if it wants its kids to survive its really gotta start producing FAST! Then finally, after a week of this, when the thing is in the routine of just breaking its back for 10hrs/day to reproduce, you trick it into working that hard for an extra two hours.. 
If plants ever unionize, we're screwed..


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## GypsyBush (Oct 2, 2008)

potroast said:


> Yes, my thoughts are exactly as has already been mentioned, that while it _may_ increase yield some, but not potency, it's not worth the time. In the extra time that it takes for that crop to ripen, I can have another crop almost halfway through flowering.
> 
> HTH


Potroast, yeah, I totally get it... especially the part about another crop being halfway done... 

If doing anything other than just one batch, it will plug your whole op...

And that you burn more electricity...

And the yield won't nearly make up for the difference...

But I am still curious... and soon I will be 100% steam powered... so electricity is a benefit of the fact that my wood stove does not go out for 9 months of the year... and the other 3 months average 19 hours of sunlight everyday....

Plus, born just showed up with a bunch of stuff I've yet to decipher...

Hey man... one of the main reasons I would like to research this further is due to the fact that I live in the Arctic, and we get a lot of changes in light cycles.... very unnatural to someone in a lower latitude... yet we adapt and thrive... and also I'm a dumb ass with nothing better to do... for now, I'll be walking good again in a few months...

Respect...



born2killspam said:


> No, any longer than 14/10 and the plant may not flower too well, but nothing near 10/14 will cause it to re-enter veg.. And the flowering hormone is triggered by dark period length, not light period..
> Basically you're torturing your plant, breaking down its mental faculties its more impressionable to brain washing.. (Torture 101 obviously).. Then you let it rebuild physically for a week under relatively stress free conditions.. Then you tell it that if it wants its kids to survive its really gotta start producing FAST! Then finally, after a week of this, when the thing is in the routine of just breaking its back for 10hrs/day to reproduce, you trick it into working that hard for an extra two hours..
> If plants ever unionize, we're screwed..


Ok Born... here we go... I was ready to walk away... but you had to confuse the shit out of me even more... so you better stick around now... 'cause there's a few questions coming your way....LOL...

First of all, who are you answering "no" to??????? and what was the question??? (prob. mine.......lol)

So ok, we established that it needs at least 12 hours of dark for flowering hormone production... I can buy that...

And you also pose that anything with more than 12 hours of dark will not cause the plant to reverse to vegging... on a 24 hour day, I agree...

...but what if we gave her 20 hours of light, followed by 12 hours of dark...?
Would that cause to re-vegg??? as I read what you wrote, the answer is no... because as long as it is getting 12 hours of dark, there will be hormones being produced, which will keep it flowering...

From there bro... I lost you... I do understand all of the words that you wrote, but there is a lot lost in your meaning... sorry...

So you start the plant on 12/12... then switch to 10 light and 14 dark 10/14... so the plant freaks out ... Oh my god I'm gonna die... so it's working faster to mature the bud...?(if it were pollinated, the hurry would be for seeds?)

and when it is established in that schedule, you give it 12/12... and supposedly it will keep working just as hard as when it was under 10/14... but now for 2 extra hours...

I'm sorry man... along with the 39 screws in my leg, there is also a whole pharmacy of shit that makes me a little slow sometimes... and I'm stoned.... and I'm dumb too, let's be realll.. lol....

But that is basically what you described, eh?!

Do you do this yourself?

I understand the mechanics of this... and I see how it might work...

But this is still not what I am thinking...

So here is another question... If a plant is kept indoors it's whole life, does it know that there are 24 hours in a day?

Like encoded information in it's DNA that tells it "You are on Planet Earth"?

I can see it having info like... "you need "X" amount of dark to flower"... but I am not sure what all is there or not...

Every one makes reference to the 24 hour day, because that is what we know... and that is normal... but I am not normal... never been... and hopefully never will....

I guess my head is always out in space... and my imagination is always questioning reality...

What if ... I know I know...

What if we get away from that 24 hour cycle that enslaves us...

What if there were 27 hours in a day???? or 37 for that matter...

Indoors, we control the environment... we can modify how many hours in a day...

We've established that we need 12 hours of dark... 

but what is the ratio of light and dark that will keep it flowering, while receiving unnatural amounts of light....?

If a plant is on a 24/0 schedule and we switch it to 20/12, will it flower?? slower? faster? is there a difference?

Someone mentioned it is possible to have too long a light period without extra CO2, but then, let's introduce the CO2 it needs in order to process that much more food... what now... is the photo period still too long??? for what reason???

I know, I am way too stupid o answer these questions... but I am going to research, but in theory and practical experiments.... there might be a place for this technique in my food garden as well... 

So... before I get kicked out for making such a long post about something with so little importance to everybody... lol... I'll get out of here and circulate a bit....

Thanks!

Gypsy...


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## GypsyBush (Oct 2, 2008)

maybe even 24/24..... ok I'll STFU now....lol...


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## born2killspam (Oct 2, 2008)

Ok, I was answering 'No...' to the notion that veg-cycle could occur when there is more than 12 hours uninterupted darkness.. The rant about torture, and conditioning was a hypothetical rundown of Dazed76's extreme shock flowering switch.. I've never done that, nor have I known anybody to do anything that extreme, but I have seen ppl play with parts of his technique with impressive results..
Plants don't necessarily need 12hrs of dark to flower, thats just a nice round guarantee.. This fact is evident in the fact that most outdoor growers see buds starting around mid August when there is still up to almost 14hrs of light in northern growing areas.. The budding outdoors typically isn't as explosive as it is indoors with a 12/12 instant switch, but speeds up as time goes on.. Its a hormone driven thing, light period defines the balance.. I have seen 11/13 cause more explosive initial budding, but I have not seen anybody revert that to 12/12 after the fact.. Logically you could atleast steal the extra production seen by the 2 extra hours of light given to the plant while its hormones are correcting themselves to 12/12.. Thats far from instantaneous as anybody whose ever reverted to veg will attest.. 
I know extreme shock of 48hrs dark at the end of flowering can throw the plant in a tailspin to produce as much as it can as fast as it can, Dazed76's claim seems to be that this can happen early too.. (The concepts seem to similar to not compare them)..
Regarding the light saturation, that is intensity dependant too.. Basically photosynthesis doesn't start off full speed in the morning at all, but speeds up as light gets more and more electrons elevated in energy.. In really bright conditions though, the process can get up into red-line territory though when there isn't enough CO2/Water/Nutes etc to use the energy as it should be used, and it ends up getting used in ways it shouldn't..
I have a really detailed pdf on Photosynthesis(I), (II), and the Calvin-Bensen cycle.. Those concepts are mainly from that.. I'd post the text directly if my pdf reader supported text capture, but it doesn't.. The file is about 1.2MB (30pgs), if you're up for a 'really' hardcore biochem read then let me know a good way to get you the file..


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## nuggz (Oct 3, 2008)

Got this from another forum not sure if its a repost but here you go:

*dj short says (about lighting )*

" After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.

Specifically, I find the single most powerful influence to the Indica dominant phenotype is the traditional 18/6 veggie cycle and 12/12 flowering cycle. The 18/6 veggie and 12/12 flower cycle is an attempt, however poor, to mimic the Indica-producing photoperiod. It is my belief that this light cycle strongly influences for Indica phenotypic expression.

Sativa phenotype characteristics will manifest under a more equatorial photoperiod, closer to a 13/11 veggie cycle and an 11/13 flower cycle. This is the light timing range to use to elicit more Sativa dominant expression from your plants.

As for the exact photoperiod formula that I incorporate into my growing/breeding regime, this will presently remain a trade secret. My advice is to experiment with different photoperiods, keep good notes and pay attention. Avoid the 18/6 and 12/12 photoperiods, while tweaking the times a bit differently with each breeding cycle until more desirable results in the finished product and their offspring are noted. Heres a hint: work in half-hour increments or a little less, and good luck! "


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## DaGambler (Oct 17, 2008)

hi hi. im not an advanced grower by any stretch of the imagination and still make novice mistakes on occassion, but remember some of what i've read over the years and have had a couple three good indoor gardens over the years.... here's my two cents:

I don't got 24 On (vegging), i usually use like 18-20 On just because i've heard that plants like a little rest period and that growth difference between 18 to 24 isn't terribly significant, except that it can save significant costs on electricity.

For flowering i would never piss around with trying to mimic the 'changing of seasons' of Mother Nature, i just jump right to 12/12 or even 11/13. I've heard that indica vs. sativa can make one of these more advisable, but i forget which for which  ... I DO go up to about 6 weeks of age before increasing the day period to 13 or even 14 hours On and 10 or 11 hours Off. Once again, I've heard that you can get away with this more so with Indicas (i believe) than Sativas. Yes it increases yield but at the expense of a longer flowering period. The question is, is the space needed? Or do you have time to eek some more out of the current crop. I am deffinitely going to try this 48-72 hour of darkness thing just prior to harvest, sounds intriguing.

As far as the whole... can we increase the daylight during flower period Query so long as the darkness stays at 12 hours when it comes: its my understanding that the 12 hours is needed to acheive sufficient hormone levels... but that these hormone will continue to decrease once the light comes back on... untill darkness comes again. Meaning the period between dark periods is also just as important when trying to trigger flowering. Which is why i'd wait until at least 5 1/2 weeks before upping the light cycle even a half hour or hour.

Also, as most already know I am sure, the age of the plant (as counted back to the real mothers age) will significantly affect how much darkness is required before flowering is triggered. A month old plant might well enough with a 12/12... but a 6 month old plant will probably start to flower just as quickly at 10off/14on because it is much more ready to do so.

These 'ideas' are somewhat my opinions but mostly just what the 'general knowledge' seems to be from the various sources that i have read.


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## tckfui (Oct 17, 2008)

I never here people here talk about it... but I was watching a video on youtube by I think it was delta-9 seeds, (not sure some seed breeder) and they gave you a tour of their place, and they said the last week or so they leave the lights on for 24 hours... I wouldnt do this... but it was a seed bank man! and they do it... so maybe something to it... I'll try and get the link!


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## tckfui (Oct 17, 2008)

here it is!!!!
I was mistaken, he said 14 hours light not 24  and its THC seeds
YouTube - THC Seeds - How To Grow Marijuana (1of4)
YouTube - THC Seeds - How To Grow Marijuana (2of4)
YouTube - THC Seeds - How To Grow Marijuana (3of4)
YouTube - THC Seeds - How To Grow Marijuana (4of4)
he says it about 1:45 in the 4th part!


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## jimbobjim (Oct 17, 2008)

I can understand giving a plant long dark periods to induce budding, but continuing to give less than 12 hours of light a day seems madness- "the more light the better",
so long as it is not enough to return the plant to vegetative growth. as far as i know some strains can be given 13 or 14 hours of light throughout flowering (increasing incrementally) to give it an extra few hours of light energy. But also keep in mind that an indoor plant *in the last two weeks of flowering* can be placed outdoors to finish under bright *summer* light (to free up space in the growroom, and your HPS can't beat the sun!). at this late in the game it wont be able to revert before harvest.


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## kingeric (Oct 17, 2008)

all reducing light will do is make the plant finish quicker its a natural process as the days get shorter


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## dannyking (Oct 20, 2008)

crotalus said:


> If you decide to try that 21/12 schedule or whatever it is, be sure to let us know how it turns out. I would be really interested to hear. Where the hell do they sell timers that would work for a schedule like that anyway?


I've got a timer that can be set to the second, every day of the week,
cost me nearly 24 euro though. very good one.


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## cassino420 (Nov 18, 2008)

Intresting, thanks for info.


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## billy4479 (Nov 10, 2014)

bumb


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