# Haze Harvest - a few pounds of 1200w vertical weed



## Prawn Connery (Jun 13, 2013)

Here are some photos of my Stinky Catpiss Haze just before harvest. The first couple are two haze plants vertically scrogged around 1200w of light. You can see one 600w HPS up top - there's another down below, hidden in the middle of the circle of plants (you can just make it out in the first photo). The hazes are left and right - there's a little indica plant in the front middle, and a couple more behind (which I'll get to in a minute).

















The next two photos are close-ups of typical Stinky Catpiss buds, showing a bit of crystal and the haze-like structure. The high is like a rocket-ship - you start soaring as soon as you breathe out, and feel your heart pounding faster as you just get higher and higher. Apart from the initial physical rush, it's all in the head as it continues to take you up. This is a favourite day-time smoke around here - clean, functional and active. It lasts a good time, too.

I call it "Stinky Captiss Haze" because that's what it smells and tastes like: catpiss and sour lemon fuel. It's one of the stickiest, oiliest plants in my collection and is a Nevile's Haze cross with a mystery indica. It's haze dominant but only takes 10 weeks to completely finish.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 13, 2013)

Here is one of the hazes (the one on the left in the above photos) after taking it out of the flowering chamber (behind). This plant will produce about 12+oz of dried, manicured haze. The haze plants I grow in this set-up yield 10-15oz each. I usually have two or three flowering at any one time, along with other strains. I can fit six to eight plants in the chamber, but the most hazes I can flower together at one time is six - they grow much bigger than most of the other strains in my rotation.

You can see the 60-litre remote reservoir on the floor with the feed tube running from the pump (inside the black nutrient tank) out and under the chamber, where it comes up through the floor.

All the plants are in 8-litre (2 gallon) pots filled with coco. I feed them on organic-based nutrients in a drain-to-waste system. I use no chemical sprays on my plants.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 13, 2013)

Here are the hazes lying on top of each other on the ground (they can't support their own branches), with some previously cut plants hanging overhead. There's about a pound of bud hanging up there, consisting my favourite Swiss Bliss clone and a Calizahr x C99 - both about 8oz each when trimmed and dried.

The Swiss Bliss is just like her name: euphoric, with a sweet grape bubblegum flavour and lovely pleasant head high. You can smoke her any time of day, she's that relaxing. But she's also clear and functional - a great alround smoke. Her mother is a Swiss Sativa and she's an old F1 clone from now discontinued Paradise Seeds stock.

The CalizahrC99 smells more like sweet grapefruit with a dash of pineapple and is quite strong weed, with a pronounced heavy head and body high and an arse-kicking nature. Good for getting zonked out.

YOu can see the flowering chanber in the background. It's 4'x4'x6' high. Ventilation comes from a floor fan sitting over a hole in the bottom of the chamber (it's raised off the ground), with an exhaust fan in the roof (seen in the first photos) venting to a carbon filter on top.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 13, 2013)

And here's what's left: three Calizahr x Schnazzleberry (all Chimera genetics) waiting to get the chop . . . in about a week. They went in a little later than the others, so will take longer to finish. There should be a pound or more there when they come out and get trimmed.

I have some new Schnazzleberry #2 seedlings ready to go into the chamber this weekend to start the cycle again. You can see the floor fan, lamp layout, catchment pots (pot-within-a-pot system) and plumbing in these photos. The 4mm black lines are nutrient feed (unused ones are plugged up) and the green garden hose is for drainage out into the vege patch (to make use of the waste nutrient). Everything runs through the hole in the floor which provides ventilation. Its basically provides a column of cool around the lights.


----------



## M1dAmber (Jun 13, 2013)

* Looking wonderful! I love me a good vert grow, and this one is pretty sexy.

Must have been a helluva trim job though.






Rep. ​ 

*


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 13, 2013)

Fuck yeah. And I hate trimming.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 13, 2013)

Can you believe I fit all that shit in one tiny 4'x4' box? 

That's why I love vertical scrogging - you get to use all the height you need and can grow leggy hazes and fat-arse indicas at the same time.


----------



## M1dAmber (Jun 13, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> *Can you believe I fit all that shit in one tiny 4'x4' box?*
> 
> That's why I love vertical scrogging - you get to use all the height you need and can grow leggy hazes and fat-arse indicas at the same time.


Holy god! That is pretty amazing my friend.

I really need to start up a vert scrog setup...right now I am just bare-bulb vert with no scrog. 

*Again, amazing job man!*


----------



## SS68396331 (Jun 13, 2013)

HOly f#$% around. NIcely done. Your verticle success is inspiring. Those are some nice ones.


----------



## Bigtacofarmer (Jun 15, 2013)

Nice job.... How did you manage to get away without any light burn? Thinking about running some 1000's vertically and I would have never consider letting them get so close.


----------



## smokeytokeybear (Jun 15, 2013)

howdo you keep them cool, very nice haze plants my friend


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 15, 2013)

Bigtacofarmer said:


> Nice job.... How did you manage to get away without any light burn? Thinking about running some 1000's vertically and I would have never consider letting them get so close.


If you look closely you can see signs of tip burn in most of the photos, especially on the leaves closest the lights and on the indicas in the photo below. The hazes/sativas branch out and are generally easy to tie up on the fencing and keep under control. But the indicas just want to stick their fat leaves straight into the lights and have thick, brittle branches that poke out and aren't as easy to bend without breaking. I usually just remove any big fan leaves that start hitting the lights.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 15, 2013)

smokeytokeybear said:


> howdo you keep them cool, very nice haze plants my friend


Floor fan below, lamps in line, exhaust fan directly above (straight into a carbon scrubber) and you have one big column of ducting, cool air through the chamber.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 19, 2013)

Seems like a couple of people have been doubting my "few pounds" claim. So here is a shot of some of the near-dry bud hanging up after being cut and trimmed. I say "some" because there are four out of seven plants hanging here - the other three are still in the cabinet and will be harvested in a day or two (the indicas in the previous pix).

Each plant is separated by a peg. The longest branches are over 2 feet. Going by past yields (40+ over the 10 years I've been growing vertically), there's an average of just over half a pound (8oz) per plant. Left to right: Stinky Catpiss Haze 1, Stinky Catpiss Haze 2, Swiss Bliss, Calizahr x C99.

And to the doubters?

They don't grow vertical, so they don't know shit . . . 
















PetFlora said:


> *PC* you come across as a scholar who never grew the first plant. Head full of programming, no practical experience. An experienced grower like myself can spot the difference.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 19, 2013)

Nize hazey nugs PC


----------



## ambedexteras (Jun 19, 2013)

nicely done sir. nice ass yield. did you just top it a bunch and use nutes ?
or did you use some other sort of yield boosting strategy?...cuz u nailed it lol
well done sir. 

so whats the advantage to growing vertical as opposed to in a hood or something?
dont get me wrong ur set up and bud look MAD dank. but ive seen plenty of people
get those results with a hood so im just wondering.

kudos... + rep for you sir.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 19, 2013)

Hazes were topped once early on (others weren't), coco run-to-waste and organic-based nutes. I must admit, I haven't seen as many 3+lb 1200w hood grows as you, but in my neck of the woods, no-one out-yields my set-up on a grams-per-watt basis. No-one who grows in coco under a hood, anyway.

Mind you, I know it can be done and a decent NFT or aero set-up should beat my coco run-to-waste (aero's a lot more efficient). But then there are other vertical growers like Heath Robinson who pull 2+g per watt using NFT/aero, and I don't think I've seen many other growers beat that. In fact, I don't think I've seen any.

The vertical style of growing was arguably made popular by krusty back in the OG days (over a decade ago) - at least that's where my inspiration came from. There was some great info on OG before the server was seized . . .

I've been meaning to write a vertical "How to" guide when I get some time, covering a lot of the issues and questions that are usually raised, but in the mean time there's a bit of info in this forum (or you can search some of my posts under "Vertical"). The main reason it works so well is it utilises nearly all 360 degrees of light emitting from each HID bulb - as opposed to bouncing 70-odd per cent of it off a reflector. It keeps heat down and maximises light.

And of course, plants love it.


----------



## Lemon king (Jun 19, 2013)

do you have to constantly rotate your plants??

did you achieve the gram per watt aim?

what size pots are you using and is that a cutting you started with.??

happy drying n curing


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 19, 2013)

The plants are vertically scrogged, so no need to turn them. That's one of the great misnomers about vertical growing - that you need to turn your plants. In reality, the plants simply grow towards the light and get really bushy on one side (indicas), or spread out and get weaved into the scrog (sativas).

I pretty much always pull a gram a watt or more. Best dried, trimmed yield so far with this setup is 56oz, which is about 1.3g/watt.

The pots are 8 litres (2 gallons) and I have a selection of clones I rotate. The Stinky Catpiss Haze always gets a run, as does the Swiss Bliss (my two favourites), my Sensi Star usually gets a run (doesn't yield well, but I try never to run out), and there are some clones I share with commercial growers in the area which get a rotation every now and then - including a very good Aussie skunk (nicknamed "Big Bud" - no relation to the commercial Big Bud) that's been around for 15-20 years.

I do a few seed runs, but there's not much that works better than the Catpiss Haze in my setup, so many strains last a couple of runs before I pass them on or let them die out. I've lost a few good clones over the years, but c'est la vie. I've also just finished a really nice cross that will be getting a few more runs after this: Aussie Skunk x Sweet Tooth/Sensi Star. Doesn't yield as well as the mother, but has a very powerful high that puts most people to sleep (literally - we've been using it for insomnia!).

So many strains, so little time and space . . .


----------



## Lemon king (Jun 19, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> The plants are vertically scrogged, so no need to turn them. That's one of the great misnomers about vertical growing - that you need to turn your plants. In reality, the plants simply grow towards the light and get really bushy on one side (indicas), or spread out and get weaved into the scrog (sativas).
> 
> I pretty much always pull a gram a watt or more. Best dried, trimmed yield so far with this setup is 56oz, which is about 1.3g/watt.
> 
> ...


interesting on the 8ltr pot size for the size off plant im a dwc farmer, but have had success with coco and am considering using it again for a new challenge and to ease me into organics eventually. im assuming that the clones were rooted and more or less flowered with not much veg to keep them in that pot size??

must say im loving the catpiss haze, looks like a nice producer, im abit worried if it tastes like the name though lol.


----------



## Po boy (Jun 19, 2013)

really nice growing! love the way you use the vertical method. talk about a space saver. GL


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 19, 2013)

Smells and tastes just like sweet and sour catpiss - everyone around here loves it! 

I used to use a formula of 1oz/litre for pot sizes (coco), but the Catpiss Haze has thrown that out the window. All my other strains yield a maximum of 8oz per 8 litre pot. The grow before this one, I harvested a 15oz Catpiss in one of those pots. I'd been getting close to the pound the past few grows - 10oz, 12oz - but that one was just under. Sometimes I wonder how much I would yield if I mono-cropped for commercial bud, but I prefer to grow for myself and divvy the rest up amongst friends.

My clones usually have about four or more weeks of veg after rooting, but I only use a 250 MH for vegging and a very weak nutrient solution so I can time things right. I deliberately slow them down in veg and try to induce a bit of stretch before putting them in the flowering chamber so I can use my full 6' head height. Obviously I top the Catpiss Hazes before they go in, and the tops become the new clones. The other strains I take clones off side branches, but they don't always get rotated, so sometimes I have them vegging for a month or two before I take clones. Any unused plants I give to friends.

Vegging for longer gives the root mass time to grow which makes all the difference come flowering time. As soon as they go into the big pots in the flowering chamber, they take off like rockets.


----------



## Tillinah (Jun 19, 2013)

Your plants are awsome! I remember picking up Catpiss from the clinic and the smell was so strange yet delicious. Any more girls growing right now?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 20, 2013)

Yep. The next run is a Schnazzleberry#2 seed run (just went into flower yesterday). Big fan of Chimera and Breeder Steve. And dues to DJ Short for creating the foundations - even though I don't think much of his F13 and other untested strains that were put on the market for big $ (and big disappointment).

My Catpiss is actually a Haze backcross created by Luc at Paradise Seeds. I've tested a lot of strains for him over the years, and he's a great guy and one of the top Dutch breeders, IMO. The Catpiss was originally named "Sweet Haze" by Luc. My Catpiss pheno was the only one of its type out of two dozen females (all the rest were sweet, like their name). It's a recessive trait, as I've never been able to get the catpiss to show up in any of my crosses with it. But you can sometimes find it in other haze varieties.

Sweet Haze never made it to market, but a related strain did: Paradise Seeds Atomical Haze - http://paradise-seeds.com/en/cannabis-seeds/atomical-haze.html

I don't want to seed pimp, but everything of Luc's I've tried has been good to outstanding. Sensi Star, Swiss Bliss (now discontinued) and Nebula are all right up there. Dutch Dragon is a very good learner strain that is easy to grow and rewards with good yields, a nice head high and a lovely tangerine smell and taste.

Some of Luc's best efforts never made it to market due to hermaphrodite issues: Super Sensi Star (Sensi Star x a select Super Silver Haze clone) and Nebulaze (Nebula x Super Silver Haze) are legendary in my circles (and others who tested the strains). Unfortunately, the SSS had a tendency to seed itself and other plants around it, so I had to get rid of it.

I'm soaking some Wappa feminised seeds at the moment, and those will be going into a friend's 3000w commercial grow.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 20, 2013)

No hard feeling PC 

wise one once said you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink!


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 20, 2013)

Dude, I'm a crustacean - my shell's as thick as they fucking come! 

All are welcome to post in this thread - dissenting views encouraged. No-one ever learned shit by agreeing with everyone else . . .


----------



## Lemon king (Jun 20, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Yep. The next run is a Schnazzleberry#2 seed run (just went into flower yesterday). Big fan of Chimera and Breeder Steve. And dues to DJ Short for creating the foundations - even though I don't think much of his F13 and other untested strains that were put on the market for big $ (and big disappointment).
> 
> My Catpiss is actually a Haze backcross created by Luc at Paradise Seeds. I've tested a lot of strains for him over the years, and he's a great guy and one of the top Dutch breeders, IMO. The Catpiss was originally named "Sweet Haze" by Luc. My Catpiss pheno was the only one of its type out of two dozen females (all the rest were sweet, like their name). It's a recessive trait, as I've never been able to get the catpiss to show up in any of my crosses with it. But you can sometimes find it in other haze varieties.
> 
> ...


that Schnazzleberry#2 sounds tasty. 

so no chance of this catpiss strain going out clone only like the bdream?? you could sell out n make a bucket lol.

is your commercial 3000w mate doing a diary on here lol, i think its about time those of us outside the usa got to see start to finish whats going on behind the groom door!!!???


----------



## Lemon king (Jun 20, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Smells and tastes just like sweet and sour catpiss - everyone around here loves it!
> 
> I used to use a formula of *1oz/litre* for pot sizes (coco), but the Catpiss Haze has thrown that out the window. All my other strains yield a maximum of 8oz per 8 litre pot. The grow before this one, I harvested a 15oz Catpiss in one of those pots. I'd been getting close to the pound the past few grows - 10oz, 12oz - but that one was just under. Sometimes I wonder how much I would yield if I mono-cropped for commercial bud, but I prefer to grow for myself and divvy the rest up amongst friends.
> 
> ...


i really like the sound of that thinking, obv the internet tells us a 10ltr is the minimum to grow a plant, so thats what i had in my head n like i said ive dabbled in co..co....


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 20, 2013)

Lemon king said:


> so no chance of this catpiss strain going out clone only like the bdream?? you could sell out n make a bucket lol.
> 
> is your commercial 3000w mate doing a diary on here lol, i think its about time those of us outside the usa got to see start to finish whats going on behind the groom door!!!???


Nah, I'm a personal grower who ends up with shitloads more than he can smoke every couple of months because he can't resist growing out lots of different strains, LOL! Maybe one day when it's legalised here in Australia I'll be able to make a proper living - and help whoever I want - from the one thing I love.

My commercial mate isn't interested in grow logs - he's in it for the cash. He doesn't have the same love for the plant like we do. I try to get him a bit more involved by telling him it will be better for his bottom line . . . and because I just like playing with plants. Maybe I'll take some photos of his set-up one day.


----------



## Lemon king (Jun 20, 2013)

fair dos, dont let any koala's near ya buds, or ya barbie!  lol


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 20, 2013)

Here are a few pics from my grow technique that you blasted in my thread.

The drain line in the rez is on a swivel so I can divert it instead of draining back into the rez. 

I monitor pH & ppms every 2 days and adjust accordingly

Inside each netpot is a 4" net pot where the clones were first placed. As they grew, I then dropped them into the 6" net pot. The netpot lid is placed over a 4 liter Air Pot, which contains lava rock. I will write about lava rock in more detail in my next post here. But, it is fast draining. 

The Halo Drip Rings are positioned roughly 4" above the surface to increase splash and coverage throughout the 6" netpot. 

Due to the lava rock nutes quickly cascade through and out, The roots love it

I will also discuss why these clones are so short compared to PCs. 

Ain't this fun?

View attachment 2706857


----------



## skunkd0c (Jun 20, 2013)

you adjust PH every 2 days 

are you a scientist ?


----------



## kentuckyboy (Jun 20, 2013)

I just read through this thread, and I have to say that I am impressed! F#*king great grow! My hat is off to anyone pulling 1g/w. It is not as easy as it sounds! Any grower would agree. Love the catpiss haze!


----------



## growingforfun (Jun 20, 2013)

Pet flora, why are you posting as if your competing with this guys grow or as if your short plants are better I don't get it. If he's being a jerk in your thread for no reason just use the report button.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 21, 2013)

growingforfun said:


> Pet flora, why are you posting as if your competing with this guys grow or as if your short plants are better I don't get it. If he's being a jerk in your thread for no reason just use the report button.


Thing is prawns posts are non offensive! And would only seem offensive to a jealous type


----------



## bazookajoe (Jun 21, 2013)

Nice haul PC! 1.3gpw huh..not to shabby..ehh.. who am I kiddin, great f'n work man!


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 21, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> Here are a few pics from my grow technique that you blasted in my thread.
> 
> The drain line in the rez is on a swivel so I can divert it instead of draining back into the rez.
> 
> ...


Son, you are way out of your depth. You are welcome to keep posting here, but you are only going to embarrass yourself even more. People can make up their own minds as to who is being childish and who was trying to help (as I was in your other thread).

The ironic thing is I felt sorry for you: I looked at your thread, admired that you were doing something different, but wondered why no-one was posting in it.

Now I know why people don't post in your threads: because you're a whiny little spoiled brat who will never learn from those with experience - because you're too proud to listen.

For example, you only need to set your pH initially in a hydro or coco grow, as it will naturally rise in a healthy system. This is normal and is beneficial to the plant, because various pH levels make different nutrients more or less available. Plants store mobile nutrients in their leaves, so when one nutrient becomes more available, it takes it up and stores any excess. As other nutrients become more available, it does the same. The plant regulates its own uptake and storage to remain in equilibrium.

Keeping your pH at the same level all the time is actually counter-productive if you are seeking to maximise growth and yield.

This is the Vertical Growing forum, and I notice you are using horizontal LEDS. I believe LEDs are the future of growing, so good on you for being an early adapter.

But your Halo Drip Ring idea is a waste of money: we have been making halo ring drip systems out of rubber hose for eons - they cost $1 in materials at most.

The fact you are using lava rock instead of another medium shows you don't fully understand how capillary action helps to keep roots moist and deliver nutrient in a drip system. Nothing wrong with it, but there's a reason most hydro growers use hydroton in such systems.

You are making a few other novice mistakes, but I don't want to be too critical of your grow because, frankly, I don't want to waste the energy!

I also don't want to crush your ego too much, because good growing is about confidence and knowing you are doing the right thing . . . or reacting in a timely fashion when you discover things aren't going to plan. One should never go into denial if a grow isn't going well: you put your head down and try to figure out what the problem is - then fix it. Same goes for trying to increase yield: learn from others and use what works, but be brave enough to try different things - think out of the box - until you find what is most efficient for your set-up.

Trailblazers led us to where we are and keep us moving forward. I greatly admire trailblazers. Unfortunately, I was a little misguided to think you were one of them. You may yet turn out to be a trailblazer, but you first need to understand that you don't know it all. And neither do I.

The difference between you and I is that I am always willing to listen to someone else's ideas - even if their not the solution I'm looking for. That's just plain courtesy and respect for your fellow grower.

When you grow up, you will understand these things.


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 21, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Thing is prawns posts are non offensive! And would only seem offensive to a jealous type


First people, this reply is from the mod I politely asked to remove PCs posts, so what business does he have taking sides, or calling someone (me in this case) jealous in public. So you see, the community has a problem.
Anyway...

PCs first post which involved several very large photos- sign of overcompensating no?- that would have been helpful had I not already been using adjustable valves, but due to his cursory reading of my thread, he missed it (perhaps my photos are too small-lol). And so he entered my thread as a..., well pick your own adjective. 



Here is his intro into my thread. You decide how courteous and big his ego must be 




_ Is there anything to keep the roots moist during the off time? Most recirculating drip-ring systems I've tried and know of either run 24/7 or have at most 15-minute breaks between watering to prevent the roots drying out and dying. Usually, the more you water the better your results.

I love innovation and people who try new things, but the whole idea of trying different things is usually to find out what works best that hasn't been tried before.

Obviously I'm curious about the reasons behind your set-up and what you're hoping to achieve. Maybe if we all have a better understanding of that, we can try to help out by sharing experiences.

For example, if you really want to a run-to-waste system - and not a recirculating system - then I can understand a bit more why you are doing things the way you are. Of course, coco works much better in run-to-waste systems, but there might be a compromise with your system to make it work better than it is. Don't get me wrong - it is working the way it is - but we all like to make things better . . .

One tip I can offer is to use a bypass valve or tap to control your flow, like this one:

*LARGE DIAGRAM
*

The way to set it up is similar to the diagram below. Ignore the arrows for a minute and imagine the shutoff valve in this diagram is your pump and the grass/ground is your reservoir. The pump pumps nutrient solution from the reservoir up to a T section, where one branch goes to the grow (right pipe) and the other to a tap (left pipe or "faucet"). Water takes the path of least resistance, so if you turn the tap on, water will flow out of it back into the reservoir. If you turn it off, the full force of the pump will go to your plants. If you turn it half-way, you can control the amount of flow. I do exactly this with my set-up (will try to take pix later). The water diverted back into the res has the added bonus of creating a waterfall effect which aerates your nutrient solution - which is why I don't run bubblers in my tank.


*LARGE DIAGRAM
*
The other advantage of using a control valve is that as your reservoir runs low, gravity (the weight of water on top) does not assist the pump as much, so you find the water pressure from your pump drops as the water level in your res drops. This also makes it hard to control the exact flow. With the bypass system, you simply turn the tap off little by little to decrease the bypass and increase the pump flow to the plants. It would be quite easy to create a 24/7 drip system this way that drops just enough nutrient solution to feed your plants and keep the roots moist (in a "drip, drip, drip" way), while allowing your reservoir to hold enough water and also create a true run-to-waste system where the runoff is disposed of, but is not too excessive.

A bypass valve also allows you to control water flow without continually trying to guess what pump size you need for different applications. 
_
PC reading your reply, it seems you have not read my thread (see post 35), although it is a very brief explanation

This is my twist, taking cues from 4 grows using hpa. Here roots hang in no medium, they are fed periodically by atomizing mist heads. Timing is critical. If root chamber temps are high and feed intervals too far apart, then roots do not develop well. Neither does root hairs, which are what separates HPA from every other grow method. Root hairs are the key to explosive growth.

Alas, root hairs are extremely environment sensitive. Controlling the internal temp is impossible during 6 months+ of summer heat, unless the room is under 24/7 ac.

So I asked myself, how to create a RH friendly environment, using a more 'conventional' method.

Lava rock is the key, as it stays damp + has lots of nooks and crannies that trap droplets of nutes between feedings. BINGO. Root hairs have a vg environment upon which to thrive. Plants grow healthy. Nuggz are nice and fat

I ran an earlier version side-by-side with HPA on another grow site. This version is much better

I'm not having any problems with it, so do not need help.

Ideas of course are welcome


But he wouldn't go away. The idea that someone would politely say

1. You didn't read carefully
2. Was politely told to GO AWAY

This must have gotten under his not so thick skin, but not through to his big and thick head 


PCs reply complete with 5 very large photos begins as follows: 

_LOL! You've pulled a knuckleduster on a guy with a tank . . . I'm not one for pissing contests, but here's a glimpse of my harvest from last week: 3+ pounds under 1200w.

You don't know anything about oxygenation - that's plain to see - but certainly I wouldn't be bragging about 4.29 WET ounces from your last grow. My pounds are dried and trimmed, BTW.

You come across as quite rude and a little arrogant for someone who doesn't know much about growing. Especially when someone who's been doing it for 30+ years simply offers to help. I'll let your readers make up their own mind who they think knows what they're talking about.

Peace out _

The thing is I am growing under 324 watts (another oversight of his) and as I stated in the beginning of my thread there were issues adjusting to the Halo Rings, so posting pics presumably grown under 1200w is childish at best.

I have 2 different grow tents and mistakenly used results from my LED tent, which was grown under < 120w. Here are a few pics of my results under 432w of HOT5s, using my first gen attempt at feeding from the top with low pressure mist heads. Total of 5 plants, I gave the biggest one away to someone that I owed $$$$. I did not bother to take a weight total 






He proceeded to post multiple replies all with huge pics of his impressive results (no denying he can grow extremely well), as though they were proof of his superior abilities. 
Once again I asked him politely to go away, 
Another of his 'helpful posts 
_Noobs count wet bud - no-one else does. Please, stop embarrassing yourself. You can't even do maths. (Hint: how many ounces to the pound? Don't go editing your post . . .)

I'm going to leave you alone now, because I can see you're simply digging yourself deeper and deeper and it was never my intention to ruin someone else's thread or show up a novice. Go and get your advice from Uncle Ben. And while you're there, pass on my regards to him and the missus. [/I
and Hellraiser has no issues with his replies? ]


Now the breeder, Polyarcturus, happens to drop in and catches PCs unfair comparison, and properly calls him out...

i hate when people claim "pounds" and dont get me wrong prawn thats a big plants but that wasnt pounds. more like a pound which is realistic for what that looks to be. 6ft tall plant 3 main buds that are a few zips each and a lot of good sized buds a popcorn makes it look like a little over 1lb to me. probably around 20-21 zips. and for 1200w that normal. 

PC replies - not Polyarcturus in a PM, as he should have but as follows, again with another large picture


I promised the mods I wouldn't post in this thread again. But I deserve the right of reply. How many zips are in this photo, poly? That's four of seven plants harvested so far under 1200w of vertical lights. There's over 2lb of dried bud here, and another elbow (lb) in the cabinet behind that will be cut down tomorrow or the next day.

All I wanted to do was help a guy. Now I've got people coming out of the woodwork trying to attack my grows. What would you do?


I responded that he should have handled that in a PM, and once again asked the Hellraiser (mod) to remove his posts.

Anyone bothering to read this can decide for themselves whether I am jealous. 

I assure you, the only thing I am jealous of is how he makes his pics so big, but then I do not need to overcompensate. 

In closing (for now) both he and the mods have left me no choice but to retaliate. Well, I could just suck it up and go away, but in fairness to anyone following him I think you should know 

_


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 21, 2013)

There seem to be a few quotes missing from that lot. What happened to this one? 



PetFlora said:


> *PC* you come across as a scholar who never grew the first plant. Head full of programming, no practical experience. An experienced grower like myself can spot the difference.


What about the one where you claimed you could grow 40oz of wet bud in your setup and then said that was 4 pounds and vastly superior to anything anyone else could produce?

Isn't it funny how all your petulant posts suddenly disappeared from that thread . . . Poor little man. You keep on posting here if it makes you feel better. Mummy still loves you.


----------



## A Bloke Down The Pub (Jun 21, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> (perhaps my photos are too small-lol).


Your photos are a perfectly adequate size.

I think it's your anatomy rather than your photography which is the problem here.


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 21, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> There seem to be a few quotes missing from that lot. What happened to this one?
> 
> What about the one where you claimed you could grow 40oz of wet bud in your setup and then said that was 4 pounds and vastly superior to anything anyone else could produce?
> 
> Isn't it funny how all your petulant posts suddenly disappeared from that thread . . . Poor little man. You keep on posting here if it makes you feel better. Mummy still loves you.


I removed my replies to you as the mods were not going to remove yours, and I did not want to turn my thread into a pissing contest, especially with someone who failed to see that I was already using adjustable bypass valves before posting. 

Actually, I think you also looked at my led grow where I had a 4oz WET cola- note the whole plant was grown under < 120 watts, ~50w of which were household globe leds; same ones I am using now but 2 days ago I added 4 @ 23w led 4ft tubes. 

Me being high at the time, I was confused when I responded to your 3+ pounds, and made a erroneous 10xs _what if calculation_ based on my led cola, instead of my HOT5 yield. *My bad. *

Although I never weighed the HOT5 result using my first gen DIY spray system, I think 1-1.5+ pounds dry weight is not an unrealistic guestimate, so 432w x 3 (1200w) puts that first gen attempt near 3+ pounds. 

All things considered, my first gen pvc spray bar/Air Pot DIY worked pretty well, especially since ~ 25% of the nutes overshot the Air Pots entirely during each spray cycle. When I tripped across the Halo Rings I got excited as I could now direct > 95% directly into the rock medium. I did have to increase the diameter of the holes as many were clogged

 

I won't be starting another grow until first new moon in September, hope anyone reading this will follow along

Sadly, it is clear that you can't control your immature name calling behavior. Is it the voices in your head, or just angrily lashing out because you have been schooled?

All you ever had to do was carefully read my thread before your first post, and none of this would have happened 

Anytime you want to get the mods to pull your posts from my thread, I will agree to do the same


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 21, 2013)

Blackmail doesn't work with me, son.

There is absolutely nothing you can write that will affect me.


----------



## kindnug (Jun 21, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> HI, JUST LETTING YOU KNOW i WILL BE POSTING CRAP ON YOUR THREAD UNTIL YOU GET YOUR HOLIER THAN THOU CRAP OFF MINE.
> 
> IF ANYBODY CARES TO SEE HOW PC SHITS ON SOMEONE ELSES THREAD. PLEASE COME BY MY THREAD, SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT A DOUCHE THIS OTHERWISE ACCOMPLISHED GROWER IS


Want a tissue to wipe away the tears?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 21, 2013)

The Swiss Bliss and Calizahr x C99 came down today - the Catpiss haze is almost there.

Initial weights are a bit shy of what I would have liked, but that's the trade-off of growing in the cooler weather. The buds are generally nicer (a bit tighter), but the yields can be slightly down. Plants tend to grow faster when they're warmer.

The first pic has the Cal99 on the left, Swiss Bliss on the right, and a Swiss Bliss bud in the middle. The Swiss Bliss is prone to mould and the top of the main cola got just a whiff of the dreaded hairy monster, so I won't be mixing that bud in with the rest. The Cal99 has so far proven quite mould resistant.








Cal99 first . . . 200 grams (204g - 4g for the bag).








Swiss Bliss next . . . 178 grams (sorry about the picture quality - you can just make out the "182" on the scales)








And here is a close-up of the mould-affected Swiss Bliss bud. The mould is on the other side, in case you're wondering, but is very minor.








Altogether 378 grams of trimmed, dried bud - 13.5oz in the old language. A bit short of a pound, but the two Catpiss Hazes should yield a bit more. I might be pushing to make 3lb this grow, but we'll see . . .


----------



## hyroot (Jun 21, 2013)

What. Is your idea of cooler and warmer? Plants grow best and yield best between 72- 77 degrees. Mj stops growing at 87 degrees. Too much heat will make yield suffer and buds more airy... too cold temps will make flowering lagg like too much n. But yield will suffer too.

Your buds look dank.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 21, 2013)

Cheers. I've actually found they finish quicker when it's colder - heat keeps them stretching and budding. I'm not sure about your temperature range - 87F is about 30C, right? It gets a lot hotter than that near the equator where sativas are from. It gets over 40C here in Australia and we still grow indoors without AC. Sometimes it gets to 45+C in the cabinet in summer - that's really pushing things, and the bud quality is affected greatly. I try not to grow in such conditions, but sometimes summer comes early or extends late.

Right now it's getting near zero C overnight and mid teens in the day. 20-30C seems to be the optimium range for me.


----------



## hyroot (Jun 21, 2013)

Sativas are from equitorial regions but more mountainous regions at higher elevations where its cold. Indica are from high heat desert areas like the middle east former regions of Hindu kush. The place not the strain. Indica do much better in warmer climates than sativas. indica leaves are dark green and more broad to.shade the plant from heat and don't really get light bleached. Where sativas can get bleached very easily. Skinny fingers on the leave don't shade very much.

87f is around 30c. Unless your using co2 Thats too hot.my veggie garden outside does not like that temp either. They do best in the mid to low 70's. 

It my indoor gets hotter than 75f they get light bleached. That destroys chlorophyll. In the 80's f buds gets soft and airy. As if the soil was bone dry. With out door if its too hot I move them into the shade.


----------



## jr5142 (Jun 21, 2013)

I first started following this because I was impressed by the results of prawns vertical grow (something that until now I had just viewed as a novelty).. lol now I check in daily to follow the drama and he said she said... Thanks for the laughs I've had while reading these mud slinging contests. And hats off to you prawn for not only a very successful grow. But also making me want to learn more about your style of grow.


----------



## smoke and coke (Jun 21, 2013)

hey Prawn thanks for sharring. they look awesome. you have come along way since your first grow lol.

you actually inspired me to go vertical with an open bulb. i dont pull anything like you with my 400's, but i do alright.


----------



## beeralot (Jun 21, 2013)

I really like the way you do your vert im hoping to do something like this soon i would love advice from you sir prawn. I myself live in this beautiful country aussie aussie. I will be posting up soon just started lemon kush and green love potion kerala x skunk and my area is 7ft long,7ft tall and not very wide 2.5ft i like the screen set up you do. And I only have 400wt hps. first time grow. Will start a journal soon. x rep to you. inspired


----------



## jr5142 (Jun 21, 2013)

lol, anyone can claim pounds.... Pictures or it didn't happen. Prawn has definitely shown us pics of his rather impressive poundage... I'm excited to see pics of yours! 


PetFlora said:


> I removed my replies to you as the mods were not going to remove yours, and I did not want to turn my thread into a pissing contest, especially with someone who failed to see that I was already using adjustable bypass valves before posting.
> 
> Actually, I think you also looked at my led grow where I had a 4oz WET cola- note the whole plant was grown under < 120 watts, ~50w of which were household globe leds; same ones I am using now but 2 days ago I added 4 @ 23w led 4ft tubes.
> 
> ...


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 21, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Sativas are from equitorial regions but more mountainous regions at higher elevations where its cold. Indica are from high heat desert areas like the middle east former regions of Hindu kush. The place not the strain. Indica do much better in warmer climates than sativas. indica leaves are dark green and more broad to.shade the plant from heat and don't really get light bleached. Where sativas can get bleached very easily. Skinny fingers on the leave don't shade very much.
> 
> 87f is around 30c. Unless your using co2 Thats too hot.my veggie garden outside does not like that temp either. They do best in the mid to low 70's.
> 
> It my indoor gets hotter than 75f they get light bleached. That destroys chlorophyll. In the 80's f buds gets soft and airy. As if the soil was bone dry. With out door if its too hot I move them into the shade.


Hi mate, I really have to disagree with most of this. I lived in SE Asia for more than a decade and have seen landrace sativas (collected many a seed during my travels through Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Malaysia, China, Korea etc) and some of the places I saw them it was just plain HOT. The mountainous regions of South East Asia do not compare at all to the high-altitude regions of Central Asia, and indeed, you will find landrace sativas growing along riverbanks in SE Asia that aren't far off sea level.

I've never, ever seen heat stress at 24C. Light bleaching happens when the plants are too close to a strong light source, as opposed to the actual temperature inside the room.

I've traveled through some of the mountainous regions of China and Pakistan, where indicas grow on the side of the road, and the defining features of the landscape are lack of ozone (very high UVB - sunburn is a bitch), very mild daytime temperatures (even in summer) and very cold overnight temps, so not quite sure how that stacks up with indicas being more heat resistant than sativas. Indicas are much more cold resistant to sativas, in my opinion. But again, my experience differs to yours . . .

I'm not saying all this to be obstreperous, it's just that I've been to these places and I've seen native sativas as far as the eye can see in some cases. There are undiluted parts of China and Korea, for example, that just blew me away when I saw hemp growing EVERYWHERE. Up until then, I'd only seen the odd plot or scattered thicket where sativas were being cultivated or were left to grow naturally.

And mate, ask an Aussie outdoor grower how hot it gets here. Have you seen that movie "Good Morning Vietnam"? In best Robin Williams impression:

_"It's hot! Damn hot! Real hot! Fool, it's hot! I told you again! Were you born on the sun? It's damn hot! It's so damn hot, I saw little guys, their orange robes burst into flames. It's that hot!"_

Hehe. Sorry. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 22, 2013)

*jr5142 *Scroll down to post #38- had 5 plants that look like the one pictured. You would have to go to my last grow thread to see more, as I do not save many pics from previous grow. But even a skeptic can see this plant was > 4 ozs


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 22, 2013)

hyroot said:


> indica leaves are dark green and more broad to.shade the plant from heat and don't really get light bleached. Where sativas can get bleached very easily. Skinny fingers on the leave don't shade very much.


Bearing in mind I'm not a botanist, I have my own theory on why indicas have fat leaves and sativas skinny leaves.

Humidity.

Due to its elevation, Central Asia is very dry, so indica plants don't have to contend with humidity and mould as much as tropical varieties like sativas.

I believe sativas evolved an open structure (which accounts for the skinny leaves) to became more resistant to problems caused by humidity. Indicas developed a tighter structure with bigger leaves possibly to maximise photosynthesis in areas where growing seasons were short, and soils were poor in nutrient.

Just a theory, but there's no denying the fact indicas are far more susceptible to mould than sativas. Sativas also like more acidic soils, consistent with the abundance and fast breakdown of organic material in tropical areas on which to feed.

I think I'm going to have to read up on this stuff to answer my own questions!


----------



## smokeytokeybear (Jun 22, 2013)

subd buddy, nice girls


----------



## hyroot (Jun 22, 2013)

Pc on location I was quoting from dj shorts book. Outside the u.s. ive only been to mexico, canada, and England. 


Leaf shape may be due to infrared and deep red light.


When I add more 660nm red and 730nm/760nm IR my leaves get much larger and fatter. No matter what lineage.


Btw a strain I breed. Cheese berry kush has some columbian landrace skunk in the lineage. That crossed with ice is the strain I had then I crossed it with an old school ibl master kush.

Cheese is really a retarded skunk pheno.


----------



## A Bloke Down The Pub (Jun 22, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> jr5142 Scroll down to post #38


Do you not believe in links?
(or easy-to-read black text)



> But even a skeptic can see this plant was > 4 ozs


Oh, I don't know... looks rather fluffy to me... you're sure you don't mean 4g?


----------



## hyroot (Jun 22, 2013)

^^^^ I do par t5 too. One of the bulbs he has I use too. Wave point coral wave. It has a lot of IR from 730nm - 780nm. It makes buds very dense.more so than a 1000w digilux, ushio, and hortilux.

Google Texas a&m infrared light effects on plant growth.

Pet in his thread is showing you can grow great pot with very little watts. Lumens and watts have no place in plant growth. Its all about par. Photosynthetically available radiation. Umole/s w/m2. I also have done grows with 330w cmh that puts out more par than a 600 w ushio. My cmh Philips 330 allstart is 1300 umole/s at 16 inches away and a 600w ushio is 1100 umole/s at 12 inches away. .... area51 led at 160w puts out 1200 umole's at 12 inches away. Those are examples off low watt high par lights. Also my par t5 8 bulb set up at 432w is around 1800 umole/s at 4-6 inches away. My largest harvest off that one t5 light was 12 zips with 8 3 gals. My last was 9 zips off 3 7 gals. On one plant 3 branches got broken off 3 weeks prior to chop. I was clumsy.


Don't mean to hijack your thread Pc.


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 22, 2013)

A Bloke Down The Pub said:


> Do you not believe in links?
> (or easy-to-read black text)
> 
> 
> Oh, I don't know... looks rather fluffy to me... you're sure you don't mean 4g?


In the time it took you to post this, you could have done a search of my UN.

Time for me to unsubscribe to this thread


----------



## DownUnderDoper (Jun 22, 2013)

Hey prawn mate. I see you're busy convincing a whole new bunch of growers to get vertical.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 22, 2013)

Indeed - took ya time!


hyroot, you're not jacking the thread - I'm here to learn as much as you. I haven't read DJ's book - I haven't alwasy been his biggest fan, to be honest - so I was surprised to hear the Hindu Kush described as a "hot desert". It's cold and high and dry - google some images. Yes, it is a bit of a "desert" (dry), but that's where its comparison to the Sahara probably ends.

And indeed PAR is what it's all about - no argument there. But growing is also about compromise: making the best of what you can find where you can find it. LEDs are still in development; ceramic metal hallides only come in 400w; and even CFLs haven't been around that long in the grand scheme of things.

When it comes to light, nothing beats the sun. Unfortunately I don't have a fusion reactor in my back yard . . . and the laws being what they are, I can't grow in the open.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 22, 2013)

The original skunk was a lot more sativa (75 per cent) than people associate typical "skunks" (50 per cent) with today. Back in the day, we didn't have a lot of respect for indicas, as the high was lethargic (we liked the psychadelic, trippy Thai high - especially here in Australia), they were susceptible to mold, and they stank! (Not a good trait when you are growing outdoors and don't want someone to know!)

Of course, very few of us were growing successfully indoors in those days (early 80s), so we didn't really appreciate indicas for their hybrid potential.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 22, 2013)

Catpiss Haze time . . . Catpiss #1 on the left, and #2 right. And a bud in the middle. Stinky Catpiss Haze is very mould-resistant, so none at all this time.








Here's a bit closer (bit out of focus) - #1 in front, #2 behind








And the official weight? Catpiss Haze #1 (the plant in the photo on the first page) came in at 306 grams (311g-5g for the bag), or just a bee's dick under 11oz. Anything over 10oz for this strain in this setup is pretty good.








Catpiss Haze #2, however, was a bit average - 233 grams, or just under 8.5oz.








So with a total Catpiss Haze harvest of 539 grams - 19.25oz - with the Swiss Bliss and Cal99, that makes 917 grams, or 32.75oz so far.

Which happens to be just over 2lb. Pretty good guess, eh?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 22, 2013)

But wait! There's more!

Pulled two of the indicas out yesterday, both Calizahr x Schnazzleberry. These were grown from seed and the cross was done by a very lovely Canadian couple who are friends of Chimera and also did the Cal99. Chimera's Calizahr is Cali O x Breeder Steve's Shishkaberry, and Schnazzleberry is Blue Domino (Craig's Skunk x DJ's Blueberry) x Shishkaberry.

Unfortunately, seed grows can be a bit unpredictable . . . In this case, CalSchnaz #3 turned out to be a real runt. I might be lucky to get 2-3oz off this plant. Plants like these are really a waste of space . . . but you don't know that until you grow them out.








CalSchnaz #1 fared a bit better. There might be 5-6oz there.








And here they are together (which makes them look a bit better, LOL!). This is going to put a dent in my 3lb from 1200w target, making it probably unlikely to achieve. But I should still squeeze past the 1g/watt mark (fingers crossed).

The worst thing about indicas in vertical set-ups is they rarely make use of all your head height. But if you squeeze them in-between a couple of big, tall sativas (like the Catpiss haze), you can try to make the best of your space.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 22, 2013)

But I've got one more plant up my sleeve . . . which is the biggest CalSchnaz. For some reason, this one seems to have had a second burst of pistil growth and started to fatten up just when I thought she might be close to finishing. That could be the Cali O, though I don't know much about the original clone. Shishkaberry is a pretty fast finisher. If I get half a pound off this plant, I will be very happy. But again, I may be pushing it. . .

Note the fan leaf burn near the lights. I get that with every vertical grow, but it doesn't hurt the buds.








You can also see the next generation of Schnazzleberry#2 plants. These are also from seed (Chimera originals) and they have just gone into 12/12 after most of them started preflowering. You can see how I induce a bit of stretch in my seedlings (under a 250MH, not seen here) to get them to grow tall. This works well in a vertical setup, as most plants will really start to fill in the gaps if they have half-decent genetics. Once they go under the big lights, the nodes grow a bit tighter.

This is actually a med grow for my wife: Schnazzelberry #2 is Blue Domino x DJ's Blueberry and is supposed to be very good for pain relief and sleep. Being 3/4 Blueberry, I am not expecting these to yield that well, but I've so far been surprised at the way some of them are handling their nutes. A couple of them - in true Blueberry form - burned themselves on a very modest nutrient diet, while many of their siblings have shown signs of wanting more. It must be the Craig's skunk in them.


----------



## MrMeanGreen (Jun 22, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Seems like a couple of people have been doubting my "few pounds" claim. So here is a shot of some of the near-dry bud hanging up after being cut and trimmed. I say "some" because there are four out of seven plants hanging here - the other three are still in the cabinet and will be harvested in a day or two (the indicas in the previous pix).
> 
> *Each plant is separated by a peg*. The longest branches are over 2 feet. Going by past yields (40+ over the 10 years I've been growing vertically), *there's an average of just over half a pound (8oz) per plant.* Left to right: Stinky Catpiss Haze 1, Stinky Catpiss Haze 2, Swiss Bliss, Calizahr x C99.
> 
> ...


Nah there aint 8 oz between pegs. Not a chance unless it aint dry. 

1.3 GPW, proves nothing........ how long did you veg and what did you veg under and how long did you did you flower??

Don't get me wrong, lovely grow and great product but yr givin it large like some god.


----------



## Bigtacofarmer (Jun 22, 2013)

Its all about perspective, you can't tell if those branches are a foot long or three feet long. I say at first glance the number seems really high. But I see nothing it the picture to compare it to. If the average length is 2 or 3 feet I would totally believe it! And for two 600's that yield is good but not super awesome. For a 4x4 room though, considering keeping it cool and not burning up the buds and making big things happen in small place he is kicking all kinds of ass!


----------



## Bigtacofarmer (Jun 22, 2013)

Also awesome strain choices. Not your average closet growers strain list. Way to not grow stumpy indicas just because they are easier in a small room!


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 22, 2013)

MrMeanGreen said:


> Nah there aint 8 oz between pegs. Not a chance unless it aint dry.
> 
> 1.3 GPW, proves nothing........ how long did you veg and what did you veg under and how long did you did you flower??
> 
> Don't get me wrong, lovely grow and great product but yr givin it large like some god.


Do you have reading comprehension problems? I've just pulled 2lb of dried, trimmed bud from that lot. That's what this whole thread is about!

Oh dear. You post pix. You weigh it out on scales. You put it up for all the world to see. And still some numpty comes along and says "Nah . . . not a chance."

Come back and talk to me when you know how to fucking read.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 22, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> So with a total Catpiss Haze harvest of 539 grams - 19.25oz - with the Swiss Bliss and Cal99, that makes 917 grams, or 32.75oz so far.
> 
> Which happens to be just over 2lb. Pretty good guess, eh?


Honestly, what the fuck is wrong with people? It's three posts up!


----------



## hyroot (Jun 22, 2013)

do you ever reuse your coco and if so did you have issues with it? I tried coco once and when I reused it I had cal and mag and potassium issues galore. have you ever tried a water only soil mix like super soil or something similar? i did super soil for a while and over time adjusted it and changing ingredients to make it more simple and less animal products. which imo made the weed smoother and better quality and way more frosty. I mean vs subs recipe not coco. im thinking of trying coco again on a couple plants. to see if i can improve yield and keep the same quality...


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 23, 2013)

No, I haven't grown in soil for a long, long time. I use an organic hybrid nutrient in my coco, which has an organic Part A and a chemical Part B to provide missing micro nutrients and balance. I also use silica, because that's the one thing soil has in abundance that coco doesn't (although there is a little bit of silica in most tap water). So my coco set-up is basically an organic hydro system with an inert medium (coco coir).

I used to reuse my coco until I ended up with a fungus gnat plague one time. Obviously I had a few gnats to begin with - which I either ignored or missed - but as I kept reusing the coco (up to three times), the gnat eggs/larvae built up. It was also a bit time-consuming, separating some of the rootmass and flushing the used coco between grows.

These days it's cheap enough to buy good, new coco and throw the used stuff on the garden as mulch, or mix it in with soil for the veges and potted ornamentals. Coco actually conditions better with age (up until the point where it starts to break down into finer particles, which don't drain as well and lose some of their aeration properties), so if you have the time to flush and reuse it, it can work well.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 23, 2013)

Bigtacofarmer said:


> And for two 600's that yield is good but not super awesome.


It could be better, I admit. But I'd love to see your 3lb 1200w grow.


----------



## hyroot (Jun 23, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> No, I haven't grown in soil for a long, long time. I use an organic hybrid nutrient in my coco, which has an organic Part A and a chemical Part B to provide missing micro nutrients and balance. I also use silica, because that's the one thing soil has in abundance that coco doesn't (although there is a little bit of silica in most tap water). So my coco set-up is basically an organic hydro system with an inert medium (coco coir).
> 
> I used to reuse my coco until I ended up with a fungus gnat plague one time. Obviously I had a few gnats to begin with - which I either ignored or missed - but as I kept reusing the coco (up to three times), the gnat eggs/larvae built up. It was also a bit time-consuming, separating some of the rootmass and flushing the used coco between grows.
> 
> These days it's cheap enough to buy good, new coco and throw the used stuff on the garden as mulch, or mix it in with soil for the veges and potted ornamentals. Coco actually conditions better with age (up until the point where it starts to break down into finer particles, which don't drain as well and lose some of their aeration properties), so if you have the time to flush and reuse it, it can work well.


I've been doing living organics so I reuse my soil over and over and each time it gets better because of all the beneficial bacteria, fungi, and enzymes... More frosty each time. I've tried various method. lst, main lining, basic topping and super cropping. I seem to get the best yields doing the christmas tree style. Just let the plant to do its own thing. Veg time is shorter with that too. But outside I have to lst to keep them short.

I don't know if this works for coco. A couple years ago I had a gnarly gnat problem. I tried everything under the sun. Then I found on accident the cheapest thing that works. Compost (no poop). Bugs do not like compost. Except for predatory mites. they love compost. But they only eat other bugs then die off once their food source is gone. There always seems to be some predatory mites in almost every bag of compost I buy.. People argue the validity of this with me so much. All I can say is it works. I have not had a single bad bug in 2 years. No flyers or anything....

Here in Cali coco cost more than any soil. $20+ for 1.5 cu ft/. I buy pro mix soil $31 for 6.6 cu ft then add my amendmants.


----------



## MrMeanGreen (Jun 23, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Do you have reading comprehension problems? I've just pulled 2lb of dried, trimmed bud from that lot. That's what this whole thread is about!
> 
> Oh dear. You post pix. You weigh it out on scales. You put it up for all the world to see. And still some numpty comes along and says "Nah . . . not a chance."
> 
> Come back and talk to me when you know how to fucking read.


Listen big pants, you can shout, scream and cus as much as you like. I already gave you your credit for a nice grow and final product so put your dummy back in. You quoted "8oz between pegs", I comprehend that perfectly, I just don't believe it. 

Are you going to tell me how long you vegged for and what you vegged under??


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 23, 2013)

I re-use my coco, all i do is pull the root ball out and double dose of cannazyme for 48hr the rinse 
spread some greatwhite in the hole and transplant into the hole  super easy, guess you could call
it a no till method!


----------



## hyroot (Jun 23, 2013)

Use coconut powder dilute it in water or fresh young coconut water instead of canazyme. Its cheaper. Organic . Full of much more enzymes and minerals too. And you can drink it too. Or make an enzymes tea with malted barley flour

Powder and flour 1tsp per gal

Fresh coconut water 1/4 cup per 5 gal.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 23, 2013)

MrMeanGreen said:


> You quoted "8oz between pegs", I comprehend that perfectly, I just don't believe it.
> 
> Are you going to tell me how long you vegged for and what you vegged under??


What part of 917 grams don't you understand? That is what was hanging on that line - dried, trimmed and weighed in front of you. Or is your maths as bad as your English? 4 plants x 8oz average equals 32oz - 2lb.

Now read the thread, fuck off, or be prepared for an argument - your veg questions have already been answered.

EDIT: I'll give you the benefit of one doubt - those buds had been hanging almost a week when I took that photo, and were almost dry. That was mentioned at the time, but you obviously missed it . . . Or maybe you didn't, because you quoted it.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 23, 2013)

Anyone else who wants to raise the lack of a standard or quantification of the 1g/watt formula, I'm happy to discuss civilly.

But please, don't come here, read one post and expect me to repeat this whole fucking thread.

The whole point of this thread is not to tout the world's greatest grower, but to show what can be done in an efficient vertical set-up - something I've been playing with for almost 10 years now. Whether you believe my scales or not, I don't really care.


----------



## MrMeanGreen (Jun 23, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> What part of 917 grams don't you understand? That is what was hanging on that line - dried, trimmed and weighed in front of you. Or is your maths as bad as your English? 4 plants x 8oz average equals 32oz - 2lb.
> 
> Now read the thread, fuck off, or be prepared for an argument - your veg questions have already been answered.
> 
> EDIT: I'll give you the benefit of one doubt - those buds had been hanging almost a week when I took that photo, and were almost dry. That was mentioned at the time, but you obviously missed it . . . Or maybe you didn't, because you quoted it.


I didn't miss anything. You quoted an average of 8oz dried per plant and each plant is seperated by a peg whilst drying. I am not questioning your overall yield, I do not doubt 54oz, I was simply saying that there was no way 8oz between each peg.


----------



## MrMeanGreen (Jun 23, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Anyone else who wants to raise the lack of a standard or quantification of the 1g/watt formula, I'm happy to discuss civilly.
> 
> But please, don't come here, read one post and expect me to repeat this whole fucking thread.
> 
> The whole point of this thread is not to tout the world's greatest grower, but to show what can be done in an efficient vertical set-up - something I've been playing with for almost 10 years now. Whether you believe my scales or not, I don't really care.


I have been civil, tis thee that jumped into a rant and got abusive because I dare to question your greatness. 

GPW is a false and bullshit measuring tool. Don't get angry, that is not insulting you or your grow. Here is why...

You hit 54oz of 1200w vertical = 1.26 GPW. Excellent result...... or is it???


I grow F&D SOG at the moment (I have a SCROG awsell but thats another story), pretty much a novice in the grand scheme. I am currently upto approx 20g per plant. Not great really, aiming for an oz per plant.

I too have 1200w hps over 36 plants. This gives me a yield of 720g. That is 0.6 GPW. What a load of pants hey, your GPW is double mine but it still beats yours hands down.

You quoted that you veg for minimum 4 weeks under 250w MH, so I will use an average of 6 weeks veg. 42 days x 18hrs x 250w= 756 vegging hrs under light = 189 kwh then into flower. You flower for 10 weeks, don't know if that from flip or first sign of flower. 70 days x 12hrs x 1.2kw = 1008kwh. That is a grand total of 1764 kwh for 54oz.

I veg under 2 6ft floro's for 7-10 days once out of the cloner just to settle them in. 120w for 10 days = 1.2 kwh then into flower. My strain of lemon is an 8 weeker from flip, not from first signs of flower. 56 days x 12hrs x 1.2kw = 806.4kwh + 1.2kwh veg = 807.6kwh for 25.7oz. Here's the kicker... I get 2 grows to your 1. That gives me 1614kwh for 51.4oz.

I don't feed to waste, so my nutes are less. I don't have to fuck about with training so effort is less. I use less energy over the same period of time for pretty much the same output. I trim single large cola's so trimming is quicker. ARHHH but your GPW is double mine so you must be doing better. Other things I have not accounted for is cost of running fans, nutes etc whilst vegging, wear and tear of bulbs and filters. I also grow in hydroton which I recycle so no medium costs.
Mate.... I am not disputing that you grow some nice bud and have great results, it is not however massively efficient, it is average and the concept of GPW is . From an asthetics perspective they are ugly as fuck (just sayin). 

I welcome your counter.......


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 23, 2013)

MrMeanGreen said:


> Nah there aint 8 oz between pegs. Not a chance unless it aint dry.


You disagree. Fine. The fact the evidence contradicting you is right under your nose is beside the point. You're entitled to your opinion.

But that's not all you wrote, is it?



MrMeanGreen said:


> but yr givin it large like some god.


You call that civil? I call that baiting - especially after the above statement. You pull that shit on me, and don't expect a "civil" response. I don't suffer fools.


Moving on . . . How exactly do you figure you get two grows to my one?

This is what happens when people don't read. You assume all my strains go 10 weeks. You assume I'm not vegging in one chamber while flowering in the other (I run back-to-back flowering cycles). You assume I don't make use of the flowering chamber after harvesting the earlier finishing plants while waiting for the 9-10 weekers. You assume the Catpiss haze always goes 10 weeks. You assume I'm trying to maximise vegetation instead of pacing it out with weaker nutrients and more plants per 250w MH in order to time my flowering cycles right. You assume I don't strike clones and veg plants for friends as part of my growing routine.

You also haven't been growing long, because there is a law of diminishing returns when you veg too long - causing the plants to flower too large, overcrowd the flowering chamber, and ending up with poor, stringy buds and less yield. You haven't seen my veg chamber, so you really don't know much about it, do you?

On to the subject of run-to-waste . . . So you grow flood-and-drain and never dump your reservoir? No wonder you only get 720 grams from 1200w! You've never done run-to-waste, so you don't actually know how much nutrient goes in and how much comes out - another assumption that would surprise you (I've addressed this already in the drain-to-waste forum - something else for you to not read).

You say you save on labour . . . and then claim you reuse your hydroton - which, of course, you never clean, de-root or sterlise prior to reusing. You assume coco can't be reused - when it can, multiple times - but I choose not to (for reasons already explained). You say you have less effort than me, but I don't recall having met you and have you observe my growing routine!

I mean, how many clones do you need to strike to fill your food-and-drain table each grow? That takes time. As does trimming (you got me there!). As does keeping your hydro system sterile and clean (I almost never clean mine - it's organic). As does checking your ppm and pH regularly . . . because you never dump your res and have to constantly maintain everything in balance, right?

It's getting late here - I've been drinking - and I would love to discuss the gram-per-watt theory with all your bullshit aside. But I need a bit more time than I have tonight and I'd like to go to bed . . .


----------



## faller200 (Jun 23, 2013)

I say your both full of shit.


----------



## hyroot (Jun 23, 2013)

Hug it out!


----------



## Alaric (Jun 23, 2013)

I was really enjoying reading this thread until it got really ugly------aren't we all on the same side?---- To share our hard earned knowledge over the years.

I'm many years past my first rodeo-----and can easily spot growers who know and don't know what they're talking about.

Einstein once wrote--"My opinions and beliefs don't matter as much as my right to have them and your right to have yours".

Hope we can always be civil----even if we disagree and explain to each *why* we disagree.

A~~~


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jun 23, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Here are some photos of my Stinky Catpiss Haze just before harvest. The first couple are two haze plants vertically scrogged around 1200w of light. You can see one 600w HPS up top - there's another down below, hidden in the middle of the circle of plants (you can just make it out in the first photo). The hazes are left and right - there's a little indica plant in the front middle, and a couple more behind (which I'll get to in a minute).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. Just wow. 

Happy Happy Happy indeed.


----------



## Bigtacofarmer (Jun 23, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> It could be better, I admit. But I'd love to see your 3lb 1200w grow.



I was complimenting you. In fact your garden has helped me plan my next one. Honestly other than a little extra tying and such to fill in the blank spots I can't imagine a more efficient grow. Still complimenting. As far as my yields I usually run about 1 to 1.5 per 1000 hps. Depending on strain. My best yield ever was 22 oz. (dry)of of 15 plants under a 1000. That is not including 15 football sized colas (wet)that got tossed and not weight due to poor planning an high humidity. Now I'm planning a few experiments, one with bare bulbs and more of a standard garden with shelving around the edges and trellises and another with some cool tubes and a cage style grow. 

And really I was complimenting you.... I bet with the right training you could squeeze another 8 out of it no problem!


----------



## growingforfun (Jun 23, 2013)

Everyone has to have a lil bit of hater in them lol I've read all of it an I don't really think pc has done anything half as rude or offensive as many members of the forum do on a constant basis, fortunately those people I'm referring to are not ( yet ) in this thread. I personally have a pet peeve about when people try to compare there small grow with a larger one and justify how they are doing "better" by some metric they use to feel good. 
Heres the deal people, all that matters at the end of the day is getting a number you are happy with. I don't care if some micro grow with 100 watts has 3gpw, odds are a person can't upscale there success or they would. or they are lacking in other qualitys that prevent them from using more watts (no money no balls or no ambition pick one). 3 lbs is not a large grow this guy is not claiming to be industrial. He never once that I saw at least, claimed to have better buds then anyone who reads it so why so many people trying to come back and compete? IMO this guy did great in what looks like a small sq ft. Maybe it takes up more space than it looks but whatever.


i crop like 5-7 lbs from 4000-7600 watts. I rarely break past the .5 GPW and I bet I veg longer than most too, so my grows are not efficient at all by comparison to a fair few, however I'm very happy with what I crop each time and we all learn ways we would like to improve by reading about others results. However despit the fact my GPW is fairly low the fact I crop plenty makes up for any extra costs several times over and I'm doing significantly better then if I was only running 2000 and cropping 3 lbs. so long as what you do is a "net gain" your actions were positive. Telling someone else they are wrong does not make you more right then you were or were not in the first place, especially in things like this where there's so many right ways to do things.


----------



## OGEvilgenius (Jun 23, 2013)

You don't have to separate the roots if you reuse coco, just FYI.


----------



## smoke and coke (Jun 23, 2013)

i had some swiss bliss and did not care for the taste but i will try it again. just growing 2 beans, 1 male and 1 female is no way to judge a strain. 

now that stinky catpiss has definately hit my want to try list.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 23, 2013)

faller200 said:


> I say your both full of shit.


Whatever mate. Put up or shut up.



Bigtacofarmer said:


> I was complimenting you.


I know. I'm sorry. The dickheads are starting to come out of the woodwork and I'm starting to get a little defensive. It's always like this - has been since OG days. You post a grow or try something new and some ill-educated inbreed wants to have go. But they invariably have fuck-all to show for themselves and are found left wanting.



OGEvilgenius said:


> You don't have to separate the roots if you reuse coco, just FYI.


Indeed. Fine root mass is no problem. But some of the bigger roots have to come out just to free the coco up a bit. You also have to be a little careful you don't end up with too much root mass, as you start to lose some of the original properties of coco which make it such a great growing medium; namely its spongy ability to retain moisture, drain properly and keep oxygen in the root zone.

For me it's just easier to put the old coco out in the garden and poor a new bag. I don't have to worry about bugs or flushing, or separating everything in another container. And coco's cheap.


----------



## hyroot (Jun 24, 2013)

^^^^ Thats what the enzymes are for. Breaks down dead and old roots and helps stop beneficial organic material from leeching out.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 24, 2013)

growingforfun said:


> Heres the deal people, all that matters at the end of the day is getting a number you are happy with.


Spot on, mate. The only reason I'm posting these pix is to show what can be done in a 4'x4'x6' space and prove - beyond any doubt - that it is possible to get good yields by hanging your bulbs vertically.

What some people also don't get is I'm not monocropping - I grow all different varieties side-by-side - and that I'm not striclty growing for yield. If I was growing for yield, I'd simply run my biggest strain and be done with it: no balancing different nutrient requirements, less fucking around trying to weave different sized plants in and out of the mesh, and no staggered harvest, as in this grow.

Cash croppers monocrop.




smoke and coke said:


> i had some swiss bliss and did not care for the taste but i will try it again. just growing 2 beans, 1 male and 1 female is no way to judge a strain.
> 
> now that stinky catpiss has definately hit my want to try list.


While Swiss Bliss is fairly uniform, there are three subtle phenotypes: a sativa/haze pheno, a blueberry skunk pheno, and one that's in-between (which is the one I selected). The sativa dom can go for 10 weeks and obviously yields best. The buds have an astringent candy-lime smell/taste and have a tight foxtail structure, like a christmas tree. The blueberry skunk pheno is pretty much how it sounds, with deep red/blue hues, a diesel-fuel/blueberry aroma, and a heavy but leafy bud structure.

The best pheno is the one in-between, because it tempers the soaring (paranoid) high of the sativa dom with a relaxing undertone, and has a nice grape bubblegum flavour. It also yields quite well. I grow it first and foremost for the high - I love it, and can smoke it any time of day. But I've also grown out maybe two dozen Swiss Bliss F1 females over the years, so had a good selection to find my desired mother.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 24, 2013)

hyroot said:


> ^^^^ Thats what the enzymes are for. Breaks down dead and old roots and helps stop beneficial organic material from leeching out.


What about compacting? Do you guys who reuse coco long-term have issues with it breaking down, affecting drainage - that type of thing?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 24, 2013)

Here are the two indicas hanging up (freshly trimmed and wet). There'll be a few ounces off these two.

Maybe I should play "Guess the weight" . . . Let's see how good the marijuana photo experts are. Any takers?


----------



## MrMeanGreen (Jun 24, 2013)

PC.... You seem to have an issue communicating without swearing or insulting. Not once but twice I commended your grow and final product, credit where credits due. I pointed out that in reality you are not hitting the numbers you brag about and you take it as personal insult as you also did about GPW. Good luck and I apoligise for denting your ego.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 24, 2013)

You didn't dent my ego, Mr "Give it large, like God". My yields are what they are: "pix or it didn't happen", as they say. Yet you still choose to deny it.

If you want a proper discussion, don't barge into a thread and start laying it on . . . and then whimper off when your target returns fire. You're commenting on shit you don't know. (Sorry for the profanity, precious, but that's the way I talk.)

Your statement on run-to-waste is nonsense - I've run DWC and recirculating hydro systems, and by the time you've factored in a weekly res dump, you end up using almost the same amount of nutrients. My set-up goes through about 65 litres of nutrient a week. And I run it at 2/3-3/4 strength (cos it's run-to-waste). Do the maths. 

You also want to compare your monocrop grow with my mixed seed and clone grow. Numbers aside, everyone knows if all you're interested in is yield, you monocrop.

There is certainly merit in your theory about yields per kw hours - I actually agree with you on that point. But you're calculating unknown quantities. Or at best, practicing selective mathematics.

Post whatever you want - I won't flinch - but if you call bullshit on me, I'll call bullshit on you and around and round we'll go. I'm a very strong proponent of free speech and debate - as you know - but there's not a lot of merit in criticism if you don't back it up.


PS. Your maths is atrocious! You say you pull 720g per 806kw/h of flowering time = *.89 grams per kw/h*. By your calculations (which were wrong to begin with, but I'll humour you), I pull 1512g per 1008kh/w = *1.5 grams per kw/h*.

How on earth can you still claim you get two grows to my one? You're in La, La, Land - and you wonder why people like me lose their patience with the mathematically challenged . . .

I, too, await your reply. But somehow I think you're going to cut your losses and save further embarrassment.


----------



## LetsGetCritical (Jun 24, 2013)

Aussie hey  Mad rep


----------



## ~Dankster~420 (Jun 24, 2013)

Well I don't give a DAMN what anyone sais bro! I can see your getting (weight wise) what you claim!! And I can just tell you know what the hell your doing just by reading your posts & seeing your photos of you ladies! I wouldn't worry about "haters" bro! There just pissed off they can't pull weight like your doing is all that shit is! +rep to you my friend! 

Hey, if you ever get some free time, stop in and check out my ladies. I am running 34 strains now! Lol. I had 36 but 2 passed away on me.  had alittle funeral for um the other day! Lol

Well bro, keeps up the good work! Hope to see you on the thread.. link in my sig..

Dank





Prawn Connery said:


> You didn't dent my ego, Mr "Give it large, like God". My yields are
> what they are: "pix or it didn't happen", as they say. Yet you still choose to deny it.
> 
> If you want a proper discussion, don't barge into a thread and start laying it on . . . and then whimper off when your target returns fire. You're commenting on shit you don't know. (Sorry for the profanity, precious, but that's the way I talk.)
> ...


----------



## growingforfun (Jun 24, 2013)

@pc: I'd like to know what size space this eats up. I really considered doing a vert grow this time but wasn't sure if I could match my yield of doing the full room. I kinda like those vert cages and if I could fit a few into my room that would make up for it. But one of my main deturrents was that i thought it would be much too hard if i had more than one strain in the mix, something you apperently did fine but clearly mono cropping would be easier in this style. I have a 10x10 room so I kinda thought it would be just slightly too small to run 3 -4 cages if the area needed for each is <5x5 including room on the outside to work it could be great.

what I have planned instead of the vertical cage like yours, is to put plants alonge the wall and lean screens so the plants can have a sort of vertical cage on the outside of the room while I do my usual Scrog in the middle. Thoughts? I run soil btw, seems to give me good reliable results.

for this run I'm doing a couple Scrog plants and several bushes, and added a vertical bare bulb 600 hps for underlighting (5000 watts above them). So far this looks to be my hands down best run and that vertical 600 has a huge amount of bud around it.

do you think there is a benefit to using those cages as opposed to the methods of having bushes with vert bulbs between and reflectors above?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 24, 2013)

My cabinet is exactly 4' x 4' x 6' (high). A 10' x 10' room with four 1000-1200w vertical stations in each corner would work really well, as you would get the benefit of overlapping light from each station. The four-corner layout also allows you to walk between stations into the centre of the room for maintenance. I always have my cage around the floor fan for accessibility and so I can lean the plants into the light. 

If you've ever seen a Krusty vertical grow, you'll know what I'm talking about. Those crazy Canadians invented vertical-style room grows with 1000w bulbs and recirculating hydro systems with massive results.

We also had good results. A couple of years ago I convinced a commercial friend to ditch his hoods and helped him do exactly what I've described. We ran 4 x 1200w (two inline 600s) with cages around each floor fan and four-five plants around each cage (whatever works best with your strain) in one 12' x 12' room using run-to-waste coco. He got his best yields ever, averaging 48-50oz per 1200w station growing an 8-9 week Sensi Star.

That's almost 200oz from 4800w in just over 8 weeks - I'm not sure how that compares with your current set-up. Unfortunately, he had to tear down the very next grow, so never replicated it.

The Sensi Star he used was the one below. It's one of mine - this photo's from a grow about six years ago in the same 4' x 4' x 6' style cabinet I have now. (Don't mind the Open Grow water mark - I've posted the same pic over there under my name. I prefer to keep my pix on servers - and not my own computer - for security reasons.)







That's a half-pound plant. Though by MrMeanGreen's calculation it's probably about an ounce . . .


----------



## ~Dankster~420 (Jun 24, 2013)

Hell fucking yeah bro! No that's what I'm taking bout! Haha... My Dad had breed a strain back in the late 70's early 80's, he 4 got to put a name on it! Its a 100% pure Sativa. I went ahead & had some people help me give it a name & came up with Hubba Bubba Bomb. 
I still have around 120 so beans off it. I had grew it out a few summers ago (outdoors) and when I took 3 plants down I harvested 9.1 0unces off her.! She is a super yeilder imo! I also did one that in the 1st few pg's of my grow thread, and she had got to around 6' foot tall (indoors). I was really pleased with the outcome of her aswell. 
I just hope that all these 36 I am running now produce some good yeild for me. I have them "split" up and switch them through out the 12/12 cycle, so there going through a rotating system..  I believe I am going to give a "bagseed" a go.. A good friend had gave me like 4 strains to give a try & I picked the one he said had a 6 to 7 week flowering period.. so will see what's we get...  I also plan on starting a few more from what all I've collected over the yrs.

Oh the plant is niceee!! 




Prawn Connery said:


> My cabinet is exactly 4' x 4' x 6' (high). A 10' x 10' room with four 1000-1200w vertical stations in each corner would work really well, as you would get the benefit of overlapping light from each station. The four-corner layout also allows you to walk between stations into the centre of the room for maintenance. I always have my cage around the floor fan for accessibility and so I can lean the plants into the light.
> 
> If you've ever seen a Krusty vertical grow, you'll know what I'm talking about. Those crazy Canadians invented vertical-style room grows with 1000w bulbs and recirculating hydro systems with massive results.
> 
> ...


----------



## growingforfun (Jun 24, 2013)

That's a good looking plant but it doesn't look like it was woven into a cage, unless you very carefully removed it for the picture. Thanks for the reply it looks like ill really have to consider this for my next run or the one after that possibly. I've already got my next runs vegging plants trained for a traditional scrog. The numbers you say are well over my average yield, I'll have to make a note of it those for the future though because it sounds extremely similar to the number of watts I like to use and a more efficient use of floor space all with higher yield. It also seems possible to be easier to cool the area if there is space inbetween for cool air to flow opposed to a solid canopy that generally results in colder below and hot air above.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 24, 2013)

That one was a stand-alone indica. Strictly speaking, only the branchy sativas (like the Catpiss Haze) get "woven". The cage is really there to support any heavy branches that otherwise might break, prevent them from falling into the light, and arrange them in a way to maximise light.

This probably isn't the best photo, but you can see how large the holes are in the fencing wire I use for my cage, and how the heavy branches of the indica in the background are leaning on different levels of the cage to spread them out (and support their weight). That's what I mean by "weave".

You can also see how I stack my 600w bulbs, and how the floor fan blows directly up and over them. The extractor fan (leading to a carbon filter) sits right above and ducts the hot air away. The floor fan not only keeps the bulbs cool - forming a column of air - it circulates airs in the cabinet to prevent mould (I still get a touch of mould every now and then with heavy buds) and strengthen the branches as the plants are growing.

This setup is exactly what we replicated in my mate's room. When you put stations like this next to each other, the light overlaps on all sides and the plants grow very thick and round, as there is no "dark side" like there is in my cabinet.

My mate also used airconditioning in his room for ventilation and cooling. It gets bloody hot here in summer. 







I've been meaning to put some more pix together, along with a "Vertical Growing Guide" thread, after this harvest when the flowering chamber is a little emptier and I can get the camera in better to show the drain-to-waste system etc.


----------



## OGEvilgenius (Jun 24, 2013)

You definitely have to take out the big ass stem/roots, but I just leave the rest in there. It breaks down, provides some nutrition. I don't keep reusing forever, I've found though that plants do better the 2nd time in coco. I also have a lot of compost for my garden because I don't reuse indefinitely.

Generally in my 7 gallon containers I will re move about 1 gallon of large roots and whatever is attached and then plant from my 1 gallon containers back into the mix. Water with some enzymes for a while and it seems to do well.

Definitely have to watch for pathogens and such, but to me that's just a given. You never know when a fresh bag will have a shit load of gnats too ready to wreck havoc. NIce garden though man. And to reiterate what you're sayin, first time I ever hung a bulb vertically I hit 1gpw (using your measures). There are objective things to consider that cannot be replicated with a horizontal setup. It's why I'm pretty certain LEDs have no future as they aren't very efficient with their directed light. Some will argue otherwise, and yes, the PAR is excellent and when compared to inefficiently hung HPS bulbs they do well. When compared to efficiently hung HPS bulbs, not as well. I fail to see how a vertical LED setup would look. I've seen the one for those rotating gardens and what you end up with is plants getting less PAR on every side for the same power consumption as far as I can tell.


----------



## ~Dankster~420 (Jun 24, 2013)

Good post!  I have a 800 watt LED system that was gave to me all for the asking by a LED company in Amsterdam.  I am using it with my HPS system, (600 watts). I had a 400 watt in, but when I go to mid flowering I switch over to the 600 watt. I am taking care of 34 strains right now, and thinking about doing somemore..  


OGEvilgenius said:


> You definitely have to take out the big ass stem/roots, but I just leave the rest in there. It breaks down, provides some nutrition. I don't keep reusing forever, I've found though that plants do better the 2nd time in coco. I also have a lot of compost for my garden because I don't reuse indefinitely.
> 
> Generally in my 7 gallon containers I will re move about 1 gallon of large roots and whatever is attached and then plant from my 1 gallon containers back into the mix. Water with some enzymes for yes, the PAR is excellent and when compared to inefficiently hung HPS bulbs they do well. When compared to efficiently hung HPS bulbs, not as well. I fail to see how a vertical LED setup would look. I've seen the one for those rotating gardens and what you end up with is plants getting less PAR on every side for the same power consumption as far as I can tell.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 24, 2013)

Good points, OGE. I have another friend (I know a lot of commercial growers in my area, LOL!), who likes to reveg and reflower his plants in the same coco pots after harvest, so it gets used multiple times. He reckons yields are the same or sometimes better. I don't think revegging/reflowering is the most efficient way to grow commercially, but it's his set-up. He also uses horizontal lights and reflectors.

There are a lot of growers stuck in their ways, and while my friend loves to tell some of his own grower mates about how well my vertical set-up works (some believe him, some don't), he refuses to switch himself. He figures what works for him works for him. And you can't really argue with that - people have to use whatever system they feel comfortable with.


----------



## growingforfun (Jun 25, 2013)

Oh how true that is! I went bak to dirt from hydro for that exact reasoning, there may be faster and larger yields, but for me at least, soil is very safe and damage is quickly repaired unlike when I was doing hydro and problems could worsen quickly. Im liking what I hear about coco though and wonder if I could just transplant like a 3 gal soil plant into a 10 gal coco container and if that would be a good way to go. I really like that ocean forest and the safety net soil provides but would like to see the rapid growth of coco


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 25, 2013)

Coco pots can be transplanted into soil a little easier than the other way around, but it can be done. The only real concern is how much soil goes into the pot, how much nutrient it contains, how light or heavy the mix is, and whether you introduce pathogens or soil pests when you do it. Soil will compromise the draining and aeration abilities of coco, but if it's only a small amount of soil, it probably won't matter much. If it's a larger amount, you could have problems balancing your nutrients (coco is inert, so you have to supply all its nutrient requirements) and will probably have to water less to prevent overwatering the soil part of the roots, which could lead to root rot.

I have not done this myself - though I have done it the other way around (coco seedling pots into larger soil containers) - so there might be a bit of trial and error before you hit on the right regime. Ideally, to take full advantage of coco, you want to start your plants off in coco before transplanting them. You can use organic nutrients in coco, so you can also benefit from micro-organisims in the root zone. It's probably the most reliable organic-hydro system you can use, as coco shares some similar properties with soil.


----------



## hyroot (Jun 26, 2013)

You can do 1 part coco 1 part perlite and 2 parts peat and that would be fine. That's the norm for soil mixes anyway. It will drain fine. The larger the pot the the less often you have to water. About a day per gal. So 7 gals should water once a week. 2 gals every other day.etc.... straight coco you have to water more often and no need for larger pots too.

If I was doing straight coco I would probably use blue mats


----------



## drekoushranada (Jun 27, 2013)

This grow makes me want to break out in a vert grow again. I have an extra 600w hps that I can put in line with my horizontal lights.


----------



## Cuebossa (Jun 28, 2013)

Looking good!


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 30, 2013)

Haven't updated for a while. Here's the last plant that I cut down a few days ago. As mentioned earlier, it just kept on budding to the point where it started to throw bannanas very late in flowering. As soon as it did that, it got the chop. Despite the fact it is going to yield well and smells quite nice (a bit like strawberry tangerines), I can't afford to have hermies - even late ones - in my room. I'm guessing there are 6-8oz here once it is trimmed and dried. The last two have dried, but I haven't weighed them yet. The weather's been cold and it takes longer for everything to dry out.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jun 30, 2013)

And here's what the new grow looks like. The two rear plants and the two front ones are Schnazzleberry #2s, while the one on the far left is a Swiss Bliss and the one on the right is a SuperSkunk x Sweet Tooth/Sensi Star nick-named "Nite Nite" because it knocks you the fuck out and sends you to sleep!

You can get a better idea of my set-up in these pix, as you can see the way the lights hang and the cage sits around the fan, in-between the plants. You can also see two empty pots that may get filled in a couple of weeks, depending on how this grow goes. Seed grows are unpredictable, so I need to wait and see if the Schanzzes will stretch or bush out before I know how much space I have left. I always have 6-8 plants in each grow.

Note the feed lines haven't been put in place yet. These have only just been potted up and I've been hand-watering them the past few days until I set up the auto-feed today. I've been a bit busy the past week.


----------



## ricky6991 (Jul 1, 2013)

Not trying to thread jack at all! Have a question since your experienced with vert.

my friends first time growing vert and its my strain i know and havent seen this happen before and figured maybe cause its side lighting the leafs are not spreading out?

its just in ffof soil and been watered normally. They are all like that for new growth.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 1, 2013)

Looks like it could be lack of humidity. Being close to the lights and fan can lead to excessive evaporation - it sometimes happens to some of my strains at different (dry) times of year, but isn't a huge problem. Coco and hydro set-ups tend to provide extra humidity, but if you're growing in soil and letting it dry out, there would be less moisture in the pots in comparison. Your friend could try misting or watering a little more often (but not too much), which should help restore some moisture to the leaves.


----------



## ricky6991 (Jul 1, 2013)

Will do. Thanks


----------



## ricky6991 (Jul 1, 2013)

How much veg time do those have right now? Is that usual size before you switch to 12/12 for the last 3 lbs harvest? Also so you normally have 6 plants per station?

do you think with same veg time that putting 4 plants per station would benefit more or with 1 1200w station cover 6 plants just the same?

sorry for multiple questions but just getting a feel for this as it seems llke a more beneficial setup.


----------



## hyroot (Jul 1, 2013)

How much area does one station cover? I'm thinking of trying a vert set up in my closet in the flower room with 2 330 allstart cmh's.. maybe try my hand at coco too. But that will be in 6 weeks or so at the least. I have to finish up the 2 batches I have going first.


Water those bitches.... they look thirsty.


----------



## aknight3 (Jul 1, 2013)

hey friend sorry i didnt read the whole thread but i wanted to ask, do u have pics of the entire setup and how much was your final yield with 1200 watts u said? 2 600s?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 1, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> How much veg time do those have right now? Is that usual size before you switch to 12/12 for the last 3 lbs harvest? Also so you normally have 6 plants per station?
> 
> do you think with same veg time that putting 4 plants per station would benefit more or with 1 1200w station cover 6 plants just the same?
> 
> sorry for multiple questions but just getting a feel for this as it seems llke a more beneficial setup.


The Schnazzleberry's are about 4 weeks from seed, the others about 4 weeks from clone. I don't veg quickly because I have no need to. Usually I flower, take my clones during the first week of flower (I don't keep mothers, I clone from clones), take 1-2 weeks for clones to strike, then feed them a weak nutrient solution over the next 4-5 weeks until they are big enough for the next round of flowering (8-9 weeks). If my clones start getting too big, I either slow them down with plain water until they start to lose a bit of colour (they take right off again as soon as you feed them) or in some cases - like the Catpiss haze which takes a little longer - I'll clone from the vegging plant and start again, donating the bigger plant to a friend to grow outside.

Here's a little tip: you can take cuttings and put them in the fridge in a glass of water and leave them there for up to a month before actually cloning them. It works, and this is sometimes what I do with longer flower strains - store cuttings in the fridge and clone when I need to.

As for how many plants to run, I've found 6 works best for larger strains. It's important to fill in all the space around the bottom light and get your plants tall enough to take advantage of the top light, too. 




hyroot said:


> Water those bitches.... they look thirsty.


LOL! They're not thirsty - just the opposite. I'd just repotted them and buried the roots quite deep, so they were actually dropping from a bit of water stress (very wet under that top layer of coco). Once the roots start to make their way through the pots, they'll perk right up over the next few days. The plant far right in the bottom photo was repotted near the surface, and as you can see is pretty normal.

The cabinet is 4' x 4' - so it's 2 feet from the middle of the floor fan to each wall. Vertical growing doesn't require much room at all - only a little height.




aknight3 said:


> hey friend sorry i didnt read the whole thread but i wanted to ask, do u have pics of the entire setup and how much was your final yield with 1200 watts u said? 2 600s?


There's a photo of my set-up right above you (6 posts up). There are more on Page 1.

Haven't got the final yield yet. I've trimmed, dried and weighed 2lb so far, but have some more dried bud in a bag I haven't weighed yet - I'll try to do that tonight. I also have one more plant (the one above) hanging out to dry. The harvest was a bit more staggered than I'd planned, as the final plant kept on flowering. It was grown from seed, so I wasn't sure what to expect. I don't think it will be a keeper.


----------



## ricky6991 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply! So about 4-5 week veg after its a nice rooted clone. I do same cloning process. Rigt before switching to flower i cut clones or sometimes a week before i cut clones so new batch is rooted(have good cloner/method)

so wow those plant got big for only having month veg time. Very nice. Im always used to hydro but my next one im seriously considering coco. My new 12 clones are rooted in a day or 2 an was going to do soil but might do coco and have 2 station with 1200w like yours and 6 plants a station.

do you top yours at all or just let them grow? Seperate veg under t5 light?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 2, 2013)

I only top the Catpiss haze to encourage multiple colas (otherwise it stretches too much). I clone and veg under a horizontal 250w MH, as it's easier to squeeze everything under an overhead lamp, and I'm not trying to maximise light during veg.


----------



## ricky6991 (Jul 3, 2013)

perfect... thanks alot.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 5, 2013)

Been a bit slack about posting up photos. Here are the dried, trimmed buds from the two Schazzleberry x Calizahr I cut down a couple of weeks ago. The yield was just over 8oz from these two plants, taking the total up to 1157 grams, or just over two-and-a-half pounds so far.

The larger of these two plants threw a few bananas late in flowering, but not as bad as the biggest of the three seeds plants, which is still hanging up. The smoke is nice and pleasant: a real creeper that starts off slow but then you feel it in the body and finally your mind. A very relaxing and calming smoke. There won't be any keepers from these, though. I'll be looking for something special in the Schnazz#2


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 5, 2013)

Plant #1 pulled 150 grams (5oz), while plant #3 was a paltry 90 grams (3oz).


----------



## pewbsaladsandwich (Jul 5, 2013)

Nice grow ....Looks like u need trim more to me looks super leafy and not frosty enough to stay not trying to hate just throwing that out there I could just be super picky tho


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 5, 2013)

Here you go. Now you can put a photo up of yours and we can compare


----------



## pewbsaladsandwich (Jul 6, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Here you go. Now you can put a photo up of yours and we can compare


Sorry man I kinda sounded like a dick before . I still would trim a tad more . but to each his own you still have some very dank looking bud and if it taste as good as it looks then I guess a few lil leaves dont matter . my grow still has at least 3.5 weeks of flowering left but I will post some pics once I harvest Its my first grow of my own I have helped alot of ppl in the past growing tho In other words Im still a noob and I can only hope my harvest trimmed to max will look as good as yours ... you got me really interested in vertical growing now seems u can maximize space and yield the way u grow .. I hope to get 1lbs dry off my 4 ladies but most ppl commenting on my thread say I will get more anyways you can check out my plants if u like week 5 flowering almost over the 2 biggest seem to be a lil N deficient not to bad tho so Im just gonna let them do there thing .. feel free to come leave rude comments on my thread like I did on yours .. sorry man i was still a lil drunk when I was posting yesterday


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 6, 2013)

No worries. My general rule is, if the fan leaves are covered in trichomes, there's no need to trim to the bone.

I had a quick look in on your thread, too. I know you got your seeds mixed up, but my guess is you've got an SSH going by the structure and leaf shape.


----------



## pewbsaladsandwich (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks man what plant of mine was u thinking SSH cause I kinda thought my biggest plant was SSH but didnt want to get to excited cause I love SSH taste ... I was also thinking one of my smaller two is OG its sure has that smell that makes my mouth water real dense buds.. now the bad news is my 2nd biggest plant which I thought would yeild the most out of the 4 got all gay on me and pop'd out a banana I spent 3.5 hours checking every bud site on every plant for more herms only found 1 tho... I blame the person that told me "lolli pop during first week of flower a little stress first few weeks of flower is ok"... I know my room has no leaks of light ... Im just gonna let it go tho and watch it since it only has few weeks left I think Ill check trichomes end of next week see how there looking under 100x ... 2 more nights and I will be on week 6 I got some more pics last night I will put them up soon


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 6, 2013)

This one


----------



## drekoushranada (Jul 6, 2013)

Hello Prawn Connery. I have a question. With using a single 600 watt hps at what height do you vegg to? I know it is a bit of a tough question because it depends on what strain and the stretch. I was looking for a bit of a general rule of thumb being used. The strain I will like to use this on which I am growing already are OGR White Fire and G 13 Blue Og. The Wifi has some crazy stretch but I have not flowered the Blue OG yet.


----------



## pewbsaladsandwich (Jul 6, 2013)

Nice yea she is my biggest and the one I thought looked like SSH also maybe im not as dumb as I look


----------



## Lemon king (Jul 6, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Here you go. Now you can put a photo up of yours and we can compare


i dont wana sound like a dick either but hes right that bud would go from nice to super nice if those stragglers were gone.

after all the most flavour is to be found nearest the bone!

nice grow maaaaaaan!

EDIT: and you dont loose them leaf crystals, they go on ya toast!!


----------



## Lemon king (Jul 6, 2013)

pewbsaladsandwich said:


> Nice yea she is my biggest and the one I thought looked like SSH also* maybe im not as dumb as I look*



we will never know lol only joking squire!!!!


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't want to sound like a dick, either, but when I've got a couple of pounds or more to trim, I couldn't give a fuck about cutting every last little leaf with a pair of scissors . . . It's just not my idea of fun. You can pull them off later if they bother you.



drekoushranada said:


> Hello Prawn Connery. I have a question. With using a single 600 watt hps at what height do you vegg to? I know it is a bit of a tough question because it depends on what strain and the stretch. I was looking for a bit of a general rule of thumb being used. The strain I will like to use this on which I am growing already are OGR White Fire and G 13 Blue Og. The Wifi has some crazy stretch but I have not flowered the Blue OG yet.


Impossible to say, mate. The real question is how tall do they finish? You want them to finish up about 2.5-3' tall with a single 600. That means flowering an indica at about a foot tall and flowering a stretchy haze almost as soon as the clones have rooted. If growing from seed, then 2-3 weeks after they have sprouted is a good indication.

Like anything, vertical growing is trial-and-error in the beginning, as you have to get a few grows under your belt to see what your strain does. Then you can work out how many plants work best in your set-up and how long to veg them for. I flower most of mine at around 1.5' or so.


----------



## DownUnderDoper (Jul 7, 2013)

You can't say you haven't been warned.. Don't fuck with the crustacean.

lol


----------



## 1itsme (Jul 7, 2013)

that's a beautiful nug =).

Personally, I trim more than that. The reason has absolutely nothing to do with quality and imo, tightly manicuring buds probably does more harm than good. The reason I do it anyways is that I am somewhat dependent on other mmj patients donating to pay the cost of my grow (free weed is nice). Also the market here is extremely competitive. Primarily catering to a bunch of pretentious little posers who are mostly concerned about being able to impress their friends with how good their buds look.

If it was not for the need to provide better (arguable) appearances as opposed to quality, I would never waste my time with something like that. Unfortunately, arguing with people is counter productive to the goal of using their money to pay for my grow. 


Oh, question about your bucket system. Is that an flood and drain system modified to dtw, or did you build the system yourself?
thnx


----------



## InsaneMJ (Jul 7, 2013)

Looks great bud. I have a question about bud density. I just harvested my first big run of blue dream vert. An my colas aren't nearly as dense when I run a horizontal garden although it looks like alot more on the yield ill probably get the same numbers. I did add in two more additives but I don't think those would cause my buds to thin out?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 7, 2013)

1itsme said:


> that's a beautiful nug =).
> 
> Personally, I trim more than that. The reason has absolutely nothing to do with quality and imo, tightly manicuring buds probably does more harm than good. The reason I do it anyways is that I am somewhat dependent on other mmj patients donating to pay the cost of my grow (free weed is nice). Also the market here is extremely competitive. Primarily catering to a bunch of pretentious little posers who are mostly concerned about being able to impress their friends with how good their buds look.
> 
> If it was not for the need to provide better (arguable) appearances as opposed to quality, I would never waste my time with something like that. Unfortunately, arguing with people is counter productive to the goal of using their money to pay for my grow.


I know it's all personal preference, and I hope I didn't sound too rude, but manicuring a bud to within an inch of its life doesn't make it any more potent and, IMO, is a waste of good smoke. Those little sugar-coated fan leaves that stick out from the buds are just as potent as the buds themselves.

Maybe if I was more dedicated I'd turn all my trim into hash or canna-butter, but that's also time-consuming and I have a regular job and normal life, so can't devote myself to my plants 24/7. All my trim gets mulched. I always end up with plenty of bud to smoke, anyway.




1 said:


> Oh, question about your bucket system. Is that an flood and drain system modified to dtw, or did you build the system yourself?
> thnx


It's basically a recirculating system that I have modified for drain to waste. Instead of the runoff draining back into the reservoir, it runs outside to my garden. I wouldn't recommend recirculating coco. It can be done, but there is a risk that bits of coco can clog your pump and lines if you don't strain it properly. Run to waste doesn't waste that much nutrient because you can run a weaker solution with just enough runoff each watering to flush excess salts.




InsaneMJ said:


> Looks great bud. I have a question about bud density. I just harvested my first big run of blue dream vert. An my colas aren't nearly as dense when I run a horizontal garden although it looks like alot more on the yield ill probably get the same numbers. I did add in two more additives but I don't think those would cause my buds to thin out?


A number of things can affect bud density, but genetics aside, it is mostly down to heat and light.

If your light source isn't strong enough, or your plants are too far away from the light source, you will obviously end up with airy bud.

However, if your room is too hot, your plants will naturally start to thin out and the buds they produce will be airy, like cotton candy. Hotter conditions tend to promote more stretch.

Overly humid conditions and lack of ventilation can also affect bud density in my experience, so it is important to have a lot of air going in and out of your grow room. If there is not enough air circulation, the plant doesn't get enough CO2 during the lights-on period to photosynthesise, and not enough O2 to respire at night. Bud quality can be severely affected.

Finally, if you treat vertical growing the same as any other form of growing - that is, making an effort to scrog or get all your branches as close to the light source as you can without burning - you will see very good results. The trick is to get the branches close enough to the lights to produce nice, thick buds, but not too close where they start to stretch (air out) and bleach.

You'll get the hang of it after a couple of vertical grows.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 7, 2013)

DownUnderDoper said:


> View attachment 2728229
> You can't say you haven't been warned.. Don't fuck with the crustacean.
> 
> lol


LOL! Yeah, prawns eat shit, so we don't mind a bit of of it being thrown around! I guess we're all grown-ups here, so we should all be able to handle a bit of criticism . . .

It's just that I fucking hate trimming - as you know - so the less time I spend cutting down every single leaf, the happier I am at harvest.


----------



## dwight smokum (Jul 7, 2013)

do you have the fencing tied to anything?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 7, 2013)

It's formed into a tube with the floor fan at the bottom and the lights hanging down the middle. The fencing wire simply attaches to itself and stands on its own like an empty barrel.


----------



## InsaneMJ (Jul 8, 2013)

Well when I finished I had very large colas, I'm wondering if I dried them too fast an that's what caused it? Because my other buddy basically told me the same exact thing, and my blue dream is a solid producer I've hit 2.5 a light on a horizontal garden. As for ventalation, I don't vent at all because its a fully sealed room, with the carbon filter on the inside and I have a co2 tank that runs during light hours. 

Im wondering if air circulation may be the problem? I only have 2 fans under the lights and the blower in the corner next to the dehumidifier an ac unit. Maybe some fans above? Idk I'm close to giving up on it thou, I don't have too much extra time to be wasting money and harvests like that.


----------



## 1itsme (Jul 8, 2013)

not rude at all, was pointing out to previous poster that imo most trimming is for sales purposes at the expense of quality- the less handling the better. I'm on my second vert run - 600w dtw coco using home made drain system, always curious about how other ppl are doing things. I automated watering for the fist time this run and had a few issues lol. overwatering, timer malfunction drain issues... my plants are looking alot rougher than normal but think will still out preform any horizontal run I've done so far. we'll see tho . heres a pic- odessy and unknown og clone both lookin kinda sad date is wrong on camera


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 8, 2013)

That's doing just fine. You'll get it more dialled in with each grow, but you can already see the potential with this one. I'd have the lamp a fraction lower (if it's not the angle of the photo) and the rear plants maybe a little bit closer to the light, but once you get your watering schedules sorted, your results will only get better. I water 4 times for a minute each time during 12/12. I don't water at all during lights-off.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 8, 2013)

InsaneMJ said:


> I don't vent at all because its a fully sealed room, with the carbon filter on the inside and I have a co2 tank that runs during light hours.


Does any fresh air get in at all? If not, do you monitor your O2 and/or CO2 levels? CO2 can raise humidity.


----------



## InsaneMJ (Jul 8, 2013)

I appreciate you throwing out advice, I don't know anyone who's growing vert personally so it's hard to fully grasp the concept. 
Anywho I do not have any fresh air circulating, I have a fuzzy logic that peaks at 1600 ppm co2 and dehumidify that kicks on when the humidity levels reach 45%


----------



## Lemon king (Jul 8, 2013)

1itsme said:


> not rude at all, was pointing out to previous poster that imo *most trimming is for sales purposes at the expense of quality*- the less handling the better. I'm on my second vert run - 600w dtw coco using home made drain system, always curious about how other ppl are doing things. I automated watering for the fist time this run and had a few issues lol. overwatering, timer malfunction drain issues... my plants are looking alot rougher than normal but think will still out preform any horizontal run I've done so far. we'll see tho . heres a pic- odessy and unknown og clone both lookin kinda sadView attachment 2729249 date is wrong on camera



still all im saying is you wouldnt see a bud on the cover of high times like that IMO. yes the sugar LEAFS are all good but were growing for BUD not leafs! (IMO) its like leaving an inch of fat on a steak, yes its the most juicy, tasty part, but you wouldn't want it looking you in the face. IMO.

and after all that work n the couple blisters you get from manicuring such a vast amount. would you like perfection looking back at you after all your hard work??!

lol

peace out shrimps, n connery as ive said before noice grow!


----------



## hyroot (Jul 8, 2013)

InsaneMJ said:


> Well when I finished I had very large colas, I'm wondering if I dried them too fast an that's what caused it? Because my other buddy basically told me the same exact thing, and my blue dream is a solid producer I've hit 2.5 a light on a horizontal garden. As for ventalation, I don't vent at all because its a fully sealed room, with the carbon filter on the inside and I have a co2 tank that runs during light hours.
> 
> Im wondering if air circulation may be the problem? I only have 2 fans under the lights and the blower in the corner next to the dehumidifier an ac unit. Maybe some fans above? Idk I'm close to giving up on it thou, I don't have too much extra time to be wasting money and harvests like that.


How are your temps. Too much heat will cause airy buds. Prawn likes it hot in his grow.


----------



## medicalguy508 (Jul 8, 2013)

This is nevils new haze hybrid Talk about haze taste and high look out!!!


----------



## InsaneMJ (Jul 8, 2013)

Temps don't go over 77 I have a 15100 btu ac unit for 2x1000 watts, an over kill. The buds 4 days old an I'm smokin on it now, gets better every day from this point on cause its curing. I'm thinking I dried it too fast. Or the light wasnt strong enough for them. Even thou I had buds fatter then beer bottles an falling over on their own weight.


----------



## dwight smokum (Jul 8, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> It's formed into a tube with the floor fan at the bottom and the lights hanging down the middle. The fencing wire simply attaches to itself and stands on its own like an empty barrel.


 thanks prawn. one more question. what is the circumference of yer fan?..i seen where you said plants are within 8 inches of yer light so i guess it'd be 8 inches,right?...my fan is 12" and i'm thinkin about gettin a smaller one when i get the fencing to put around it... appreciate you sharing yer experience..


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 8, 2013)

Lemon king said:


> still all im saying is you wouldnt see a bud on the cover of high times like that IMO. yes the sugar LEAFS are all good but were growing for BUD not leafs! (IMO) its like leaving an inch of fat on a steak, yes its the most juicy, tasty part, but you wouldn't want it looking you in the face. IMO.
> 
> and after all that work n the couple blisters you get from manicuring such a vast amount. would you like perfection looking back at you after all your hard work??!
> 
> ...


LOL. Fair enough. I guess I just like a bit of marbelling in my steak.



medicalguy508 said:


> This is nevils new haze hybrid Talk about haze taste and high look out!!! View attachment 2729884


Hi mate, yes I was eyeing off Nev's latest offerings just the other day. Where did you get your the seeds? (Assuming that one is from seed.) That looks like the NH x Mullimbimby Madness. Should be nice, maybe even have a bit of the captiss about her . . .


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 8, 2013)

InsaneMJ said:


> I appreciate you throwing out advice, I don't know anyone who's growing vert personally so it's hard to fully grasp the concept.
> Anywho I do not have any fresh air circulating, I have a fuzzy logic that peaks at 1600 ppm co2 and dehumidify that kicks on when the humidity levels reach 45%


Plants obviously need oxygen as well - do you also monitor O2 levels? 1600ppm seems pretty high, but I don't use CO2 so not sure how that compares.




hyroot said:


> How are your temps. Too much heat will cause airy buds. Prawn likes it hot in his grow.


LOL! I think your idea of "hot" and my idea might differ a little. When it regularly gets to 40C+ (sometimes days and weeks over 100F) during summer, you tend to think of 20-30C as "mild". But that's where my plants like to be.


----------



## drekoushranada (Jul 9, 2013)

Hey Prawn would you advise using Coco or DWC/UnderCurrent buckets? I'm not that solid at growing in Coco. I can just try The 4 bucket UC system along with the four 3.4gal air pots I have. I will try to keep the coco whitefly and Gnat free this go round. Are 8 plants around a 1000watter in a cooltube to much? I miss growing vertical for sure.


----------



## InsaneMJ (Jul 9, 2013)

The clost plants were about 4-5 inches away from the 1000 w bulb. So what I'm thinking is that I didn't ventilate the back enough and the plants were alittle too close. And caused it to thin out. I do not monitor the o2 levels because I figure when the co2 levels drop at night the o2 builds back up. Since there isn't any opening or tanks filling the room. Only thing I suppose it is, is oxygen because co2 doesn't create it self, and I have the fuzzy logic only running during the 12 hr period. 

At first I was thinking it may be an additive, because I added 3 new additives when I changed to the stadium also.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 9, 2013)

O2 levels do not build back up at night - quite the opposite - because that's when plants respirate and use oxygen instead of carbon dioxide (which is only photosynthesised during the day). If you don't have enough O2 in your room at night for your plants to breath, they will suffer. People forget plants need oxygen at night as much as they need carbon dioxide during the day. If your room is sealed, there's no way for any CO2/O2 imbalance to rectify itself by exposure to the atmosphere. That may part of your problem - I've seen crops suffer huge falls in yield when ventilation systems haven't been working properly.




drekoushranada said:


> Hey Prawn would you advise using Coco or DWC/UnderCurrent buckets? I'm not that solid at growing in Coco. I can just try The 4 bucket UC system along with the four 3.4gal air pots I have. I will try to keep the coco whitefly and Gnat free this go round. Are 8 plants around a 1000watter in a cooltube to much? I miss growing vertical for sure.


Sure you can use DWC - that's how I started growing vertically (5-gallon DWC buckets) before moving to coco. You can also get 8 plants around a 1000w bulb without too much trouble.


----------



## whodatnation (Jul 10, 2013)

Hey badass grow prawn


----------



## InsaneMJ (Jul 10, 2013)

I know what you mean, my co2 goes off roughly 30 minutes before lights out, and if you watch the meter, it drops to less then 600 by the time lights are out, and then it continues to go down for another 15-20 minutes depending on the size of plants. I would agree with you on ventalation but this is my first troubled grow mainly because it was vertical. I've had great success in the same exact set up otherwise,( amount of lights, dehumidifier, ac. Etc.) 
im almost 100% sure it was due to distance, although I did have a fan under the light, the buds were still only 4-5 inches away, I think that was my downfall.


----------



## medicalguy508 (Jul 10, 2013)

Now is this the new strain NH21 x MM





1itsme said:


> not rude at all, was pointing out to previous poster that imo most trimming is for sales purposes at the expense of quality- the less handling the better. I'm on my second vert run - 600w dtw coco using home made drain system, always curious about how other ppl are doing things. I automated watering for the fist time this run and had a few issues lol. overwatering, timer malfunction drain issues... my plants are looking alot rougher than normal but think will still out preform any horizontal run I've done so far. we'll see tho . heres a pic- odessy and unknown og clone both lookin kinda sadView attachment 2729249 date is wrong on camera


----------



## junior870 (Jul 11, 2013)

wow. those are some sexy effin ladies. great job!


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 12, 2013)

Here's the last of it. Took a long time to dry this bud out, as it's been very cold and humid lately. Yield from this last plant was 300 grams, taking the total to 1457 grams, or 52oz. And there's my few pounds of 1200w vertical weed. It might not win any beauty contests, but it gets you fucking high.


----------



## iiKode (Jul 13, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Sativas are from equitorial regions but more mountainous regions at higher elevations where its cold. Indica are from high heat desert areas like the middle east former regions of Hindu kush. The place not the strain. Indica do much better in warmer climates than sativas. indica leaves are dark green and more broad to.shade the plant from heat and don't really get light bleached. Where sativas can get bleached very easily. Skinny fingers on the leave don't shade very much.
> 
> 87f is around 30c. Unless your using co2 Thats too hot.my veggie garden outside does not like that temp either. They do best in the mid to low 70's.
> 
> It my indoor gets hotter than 75f they get light bleached. That destroys chlorophyll. In the 80's f buds gets soft and airy. As if the soil was bone dry. With out door if its too hot I move them into the shade.


If im not mistaken it can hit 50c in the middle east where indicas are from, so you're logic makes no sense? my temps have been 30 c many a times and my plants still grow, maybe stunted but they do not "stop" growing as you stated.


----------



## iiKode (Jul 13, 2013)

hyroot said:


> It my indoor gets hotter than 75f they get light bleached. That destroys chlorophyll. In the 80's f buds gets soft and airy. As if the soil was bone dry. With out door if its too hot I move them into the shade.


that is quite funny, wont light bleaching be caused by the lights actually bleaching the plants, i mean thats why its called light bleaching and not heat bleaching. you are starting to sound like another bmeat....


----------



## iiKode (Jul 13, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Here's the last of it. Took a long time to dry this bud out, as it's been very cold and humid lately. Yield from this last plant was 300 grams, taking the total to 1457 grams, or 52oz. And there's my few pounds of 1200w vertical weed. It might not win any beauty contests, but it gets you fucking high.


fantastic man, you beat the 1g per watt, that is quite an accomplishment, hhhmm very skilled grower indeed


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 13, 2013)

Thanks. It probably wasn't the best grow to demonstrate the potential of vertical growing, but it's fairly typical of what I do. The staggered harvest wasn't planned like that - I didn't expect that last plant to keep flowering as long as it did - but half the grow was from seed, so it's hard to know what to expect.

I guess it will be time to start a new grow log soon . . .


----------



## greenghost420 (Jul 14, 2013)

you think a 600 is enough to do a 4x4x7h? great thread and nice yeild! you just set the bar for me...


----------



## greenghost420 (Jul 14, 2013)

i was just planning a nice setup with a flipbox and shit but right now i really need space so i need to go upwards! thanks for lighting lightbulb!!


----------



## Atomsk237 (Jul 14, 2013)

I salute to you.


----------



## drekoushranada (Jul 17, 2013)

Hello PC, where can one find the breeder for the stinky cat piss haze your growing at? Not sure if I seen you mention it.


----------



## greenghost420 (Jul 17, 2013)

just setup my tent, will be taking the back reflector of the cooltube and well be rolling...


----------



## ak84 (Jul 18, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Looks like it could be lack of humidity. Being close to the lights and fan can lead to excessive evaporation - it sometimes happens to some of my strains at different (dry) times of year, but isn't a huge problem. Coco and hydro set-ups tend to provide extra humidity, but if you're growing in soil and letting it dry out, there would be less moisture in the pots in comparison. Your friend could try misting or watering a little more often (but not too much), which should help restore some moisture to the leaves.


What is the best time for misting? On lights on or off? (Guess it can't be in the middle cause then you get mold?) Would you recommend misting buds more than 7-8 weeks old?


----------



## Prawn Connery (Jul 19, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> you think a 600 is enough to do a 4x4x7h? great thread and nice yeild! you just set the bar for me...


Yep. No reason why you can't start off with a single 600 and take it from there - you'll still get good yields 



Atomsk237 said:


> I salute to you.


Thanks 



drekoushranada said:


> Hello PC, where can one find the breeder for the stinky cat piss haze your growing at? Not sure if I seen you mention it.


Paradise Seeds. My Catpiss Haze was from some old test seeds that Luc gave me to try out. The closest strain to mine is his Atomical Haze: http://paradise-seeds.com/en/atomical-haze.html



ak84 said:


> What is the best time for misting? On lights on or off? (Guess it can't be in the middle cause then you get mold?) Would you recommend misting buds more than 7-8 weeks old?


I'd be careful misting denser buds if you are worried about mould, but lights-on would be best. Some people say that if you mist while the lights are on you can burn your plants, because all the water droplets act like little magnifying glasses, but that's just a myth. I mist my seedlings all the time during lights-on.


----------



## drekoushranada (Jul 19, 2013)

Thanks for the info.


----------



## Steelheader3430 (Jul 21, 2013)

Awesome! Love the ingenuity. Good job man.


----------



## Malevolence (Aug 2, 2013)

Would this be worth doing with 12 two gallon coco hempys around two 400w hps/mh in a 5x3 tent and only a short 2 week veg in DWC from clone... would the plants be tall enough or just better off with horizontal lamps? Also do you need to buy vertical lamps or can you just hang a standard hps vertical? Any benefit to using bare bulb vs cool tube?

Thanks.

To clarify that would be 2 donuts with 2 lights to fill out my rectangular space... not both lights inline like your setup. 6 plants per light although I could fit up to 13 if I want.


----------



## ricky6991 (Aug 2, 2013)

I just took my batwing horizontal reflector apart so bulb was hung vertically without reflector an had no issues with bulb in last 10 weeks.


----------



## Prawn Connery (Aug 3, 2013)

Malevolence said:


> Would this be worth doing with 12 two gallon coco hempys around two 400w hps/mh in a 5x3 tent and only a short 2 week veg in DWC from clone... would the plants be tall enough or just better off with horizontal lamps? Also do you need to buy vertical lamps or can you just hang a standard hps vertical? Any benefit to using bare bulb vs cool tube?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> To clarify that would be 2 donuts with 2 lights to fill out my rectangular space... not both lights inline like your setup. 6 plants per light although I could fit up to 13 if I want.


Some lamps need to be orientated either vertically or horizontally, but most are universal these days - always best to check the box or manufacturer's site before you do.

Having said that, most HPS lamps can be mounted either way, in my exerience, so it tends to be MH lamps that are more likely to need correct orientation.

I don't know how much your strain stretches, but 2 weeks of DWC should be more than enough to flower under a 400w vertical lamp. Give it a go!


----------



## Brotherdoses (Aug 3, 2013)

Wow! I have never been so angry at something I love. This is insane! AGGGHHHHH! I love it, LOL. Kick ass.


----------

