# First Grow. Doing Vertical. Any advice appreciated.



## Canglish (Jul 13, 2021)

Hello all,

I live in Canada, I am a daily partaker, very unhappy with happy with the quality of government weed and the grey market weed, I am also in a new city (Calgary) so the black market not happening either. Last two options were quit for a while or grow my own so I went with the latter. I live in a basement suite so space is at a premium but the tent doesn't actually get in the way to my surprise. My main objective is to get as big a yield as possible (of course) and I was advised that the most likely way to do this is vertical scrogging.

This is my first ever grow so I made sure I had enough light and I am using good (living) soil as the medium as I am pretty sure I will screw up the nutrient measuring etc if I was to go with hydroponics. I know there are probably cheaper lighting methods but I do like LEDs and this thing just looks amazing too. The guys at the shop (I bought from my local store, I like to support small businesses) and their customers have been using them very successfully for years (they showed me pictures of the lights in plentiful grow rooms. People on Reddit hate the light seemingly but they also don't seem to know what vertical scrogging is either so it's probably not the best place to get advice on the subject. I am aware that vertical scrogging is not the easiest way to grow weed but I am nothing if not attentive to detail and the method just appeals to me. With some internet learning, support in person at the store from very experienced growers if needed, I think I can do it.

So here is my set up so far:

5X5 Grow Tent by Mammoth:


####################################################################

Electrical cables off the floor (away from water) and tidied. Light support strings attached to tent framework.


####################################################################

Netting will go up once the plants start to need support.


###################################################

The plants themselves are 6 weeks old grown from seed and were repotted from their seedling tray into the little pots they are in now 7 days ago. I have only just started to take pictures of them as I consider this to be the real start of my grow but I am calling the last week "Week 1". The strains are Elephant and White Widow. I am giving them names as I intend to keep a log of the grow and I get confused easily.

This is Ronald


###################################################

This is Nancy


###################################################

This is Barney


###################################################

This is Thelma Lou


###################################################

I plan to take weekly (or more) pictures so will be putting a tape measure next to them in future ones (thought of doing so after taking the pictures).

Soooo, so if anyone can see any mistakes I have made with the set up or has any questions etc they would be hugely appreciated here.


----------



## Autodoctor (Jul 13, 2021)

I’m no expert but would say bigger pots. Go with fiber pots 26l and bury them a few inches or so. Better light probably too. And I was told by my pops that doing the horizontal is always better for your knees than doing the vertical


----------



## Autodoctor (Jul 13, 2021)

If not guess their names may end up fitting properly with famous dead names


----------



## TheMadFarmer (Jul 13, 2021)

Hello friend,
I have been Growing for a few years and i have heard of vertical scrogs and they seem to do good as long as the plants are properly scroged. i personally love doing the horizontal scrog nets, i would say do what is best for you and what you could get the most help with from your local people. as a new grower i would suggest staying with the easy stuff for now at least a couple grows simply to get used to the plants you have. best way to learn is to try it and fail and fix what needs to be done, stick with it and you will get used to it and improve. growing is easy growing high quality every time is not. best of luck with the horizontal grow, i will love to see updates on it.


----------



## OSBuds (Jul 13, 2021)

Canglish said:


> vertical scrogging








GR's 5 Plant Vertical Grow Winter 19/20'


Eight day since repotted from the Solo's into the 2 gallon Smart Pots. Roots establishing, and beginning to grow through the sides of the fabric pots. I had put the CLW SS400 on them for a few days in veg mode, worked well but put them under the 315W yesterday and raised the lamp to get them...



www.rollitup.org


----------



## pine boy (Jul 13, 2021)

That light looks the business.What is it?


----------



## Canglish (Jul 14, 2021)

Autodoctor said:


> I’m no expert but would say bigger pots. Go with fiber pots 26l and bury them a few inches or so. Better light probably too. And I was told by my pops that doing the horizontal is always better for your knees than doing the vertical


Yeh they took over those pots in no time, I was surprised and a repot is planned in the next few days, thanks for the burying advice, it was a question that hadn't actually formed properly yet but the long bare stalk was starting to bug me.



Autodoctor said:


> If not guess their names may end up fitting properly with famous dead names


 Genuinely laughed out loud, this comment ftw.



TheMadFarmer said:


> Hello friend,
> I have been Growing for a few years and i have heard of vertical scrogs and they seem to do good as long as the plants are properly scroged. i personally love doing the horizontal scrog nets, i would say do what is best for you and what you could get the most help with from your local people. as a new grower i would suggest staying with the easy stuff for now at least a couple grows simply to get used to the plants you have. best way to learn is to try it and fail and fix what needs to be done, stick with it and you will get used to it and improve. growing is easy growing high quality every time is not. best of luck with the horizontal grow, i will love to see updates on it.


Hello friend,

Yeh I have heard great things, it does suit my personal circumstances too as I move between countries somewhat frequently so the idea here is to over produce then have a stash of my own grown weed for when I get back and set up a grow again. I smoke about 2 ounces per week of dried flower and I am generally in any one country for 6 - 12 months. I know that it may be a tricky way to do things especially for a first grow but I do like to throw myself in at the deep end with anything I do and I completely agree with the local support thing, these guys do this a lot apparently (they made thier own lights specifically for it lol) so on balance.. I feel confident lol.



OSBuds said:


> GR's 5 Plant Vertical Grow Winter 19/20'
> 
> 
> Eight day since repotted from the Solo's into the 2 gallon Smart Pots. Roots establishing, and beginning to grow through the sides of the fabric pots. I had put the CLW SS400 on them for a few days in veg mode, worked well but put them under the 315W yesterday and raised the lamp to get them...
> ...


Thank you, I will read with interest.



pine boy said:


> That light looks the business.What is it?


I'm not sure of the name, the people in the shop called it a Cannon, their website calls it a ZPM, it is designed for vertical scrogging specifically and does the entire grow from veg through flower which is the main reason I bought it. They are a small Mom and Pop store in Calgary that have been there for decades, kind of a crazy little store really, obviously good people though.


----------



## Canglish (Jul 20, 2021)

Week 2

Seems to be normal growth rate, Thelma-Lou had a bit of a rough week where a couple of her leaves started to brown. I suspect this actually began where she (and the rest of them) came from as opposed to the shock of their new soil, environment and that insane light which were my first thoughts. The rest of the plants do seem to have the same condition but much less so as it is just the tips of the bigger, older leaves. I am thinking so far that this is caused by dodgy bacteria and the last time I fed/watered I used base plant food mixed with QG Gold, Kelp and Fish Shit. It has only been two days since I did this so I am still awaiting results but the old browning has not developed any further since that watering / feeding. Any suggestions for if this doesn't work would be appreciated.

Decided to split the grow into two vertical scrogs and two normal plants, same room, same nutrients etc.

Hope y'all had a good week and thanks for the trophy


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 3, 2021)

Autodoctor said:


> I’m no expert but would say bigger pots. Go with fiber pots 26l and bury them a few inches or so. Better light probably too. And I was told by my pops that doing the horizontal is always better for your knees than doing the vertical


Not sure why your pop would have said that because I had exactly the opposite experience. A vertical SCRoG is literally right in front of you, starting roughly at the top of the soil level in whatever container you're using, so somewhere between a foot and 18" off the ground. So much for the whole " tough on your knees" thing.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 3, 2021)

Canglish said:


> Week 2
> 
> Seems to be normal growth rate, Thelma-Lou had a bit of a rough week where a couple of her leaves started to brown. I suspect this actually began where she (and the rest of them) came from as opposed to the shock of their new soil, environment and that insane light which were my first thoughts. The rest of the plants do seem to have the same condition but much less so as it is just the tips of the bigger, older leaves. I am thinking so far that this is caused by dodgy bacteria and the last time I fed/watered I used base plant food mixed with QG Gold, Kelp and Fish Shit. It has only been two days since I did this so I am still awaiting results but the old browning has not developed any further since that watering / feeding. Any suggestions for if this doesn't work would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


You want enough plants to encircle your light. You bought one that throw light in all directions so that's what you'll need to do to get the most from it.

Time to transplant! They need at least 15 and up to 25 liters of substrate so they can reach their full potential. Don't bloom until the plants have grown to within 30cm of the top of the space.

I've pulled nearly a kg per plant and with practice I'm sure you can do the same.


----------



## Canglish (Aug 6, 2021)

Thank you ttystikk (I woulda quoted you but I can't yet) that is some solid, succinct advice and hugely appreciated. Yep, I am doing the colosseum version of vertical scrog, I did originally want to use one plant for each side of the cage around the light but I also want to see what this light does with plants that grow ordinarily so I am going to do two as vert scrog and two normal so I can compare the yields.

I have repotted but only into 5 liter pots. I was more naturally inclined to do what you say and repot into their final pots but I got conflicting advice and have only just read yours. I was also told that I shouldn't bloom until the plants are roughly 3 feet tall, this is much less than what you advise, not saying you are wrong but care to clarify? Here to learn.


----------



## Canglish (Aug 6, 2021)

Week 3

     

Yeh, not good, I wasn't using straight water anywhere near enough and I gave my lil plant friends nutrient burn (last pic), Thelma-Lou did not have a good week at all poor thing. So once I had figured out it was nutrient burn and not something dodgy from their previous environment I gave them a huge flush, they are still drying out from that at the time of writing and they seem a lot happier, their leaves are standing proudly and no more discoloured spots are forming on newer leaves. I am at the moment unsure whether to use straight water next time or nutrient loaded any advice appreciated.


----------



## curious2garden (Aug 6, 2021)

TheMadFarmer said:


> Hello friend,
> I have been Growing for a few years and i have heard of vertical scrogs and they seem to do good as long as the plants are properly scroged. i personally love doing the horizontal scrog nets, i would say do what is best for you and what you could get the most help with from your local people. as a new grower i would suggest staying with the easy stuff for now at least a couple grows simply to get used to the plants you have. best way to learn is to try it and fail and fix what needs to be done, stick with it and you will get used to it and improve. growing is easy growing high quality every time is not. best of luck with the horizontal grow, i will love to see updates on it.


I've seen a lot of vertical scrogs in Los Angeles since Covid. But just once I'd love to see Cannabis in a vert scrog there. Oh well


----------



## JimmiP (Aug 7, 2021)

I grow vertically indoors. I have also grown horizontaly. Vertical is the way to go. Way easier on your knees and the yields always seem better. If you need any help feel free to ask.
I have been waiting to see one of those types of lights in action for a while now. I use hps and mh lighting in my flower room, so a cylindrical led should be interesting. Here's a look at how I do things.
This is the best producing method I have used in a 4x8. There are three 600w hid tubes and five plants. One on the back wall, two on each side. The two near the door can be angled around the closest light.

I'm in the process of expanding the width of the room to give myself a little more wiggle room. It feels pretty dang tight in the late in flower.
Again, that's a neat looking light and I hope we all get to see it in action.

My best advice is to grow in the biggest pots you can using good soil. Min ar in 10-20 gallon containers. 
Good luck friend!


----------



## JimmiP (Aug 7, 2021)

I would also start bending your plants to encourage more branching. You want the back trellis evenly covered with branches.


----------



## MY OWN DANK (Aug 7, 2021)

Man what a light...love it


----------



## Johiem (Aug 7, 2021)

Don't know if he's still around but @gr865 had a beautiful vertical grow. That dude knows a lot.
Haven't seen him around though.


----------



## Canglish (Aug 7, 2021)

JimmiP said:


> I grow vertically indoors.... ... ... Good luck friend!


Oh my, somebody that doesn't HATE my light, thank you for being open minded sir, I can't believe the amount of shit I have been given on other communities by "expert" aka sponsored posters. Yes indeed I have high hopes for the thing, I met the guy who made them and he is a smart cookie when it comes to growing and especially LED tech. The plants seem to be enjoying it so far too.

I am doing colosseum type vert scrog as opposed to putting netting the walls as these lights can be within an inch of the plants and not burn or bleach anything, I know that is a bold claim but we shall see I guess. After looking at your netting however I am now thinking that the holes in my chicken wire arrangement may not be big enough, advice appreciated here if you have any.



Right on, like I said I did feel inclined to use permanent pots so this will happen next time, I definitely don't like repotting and Thelma-Lou likes it even less. New rule: No disturb roots unless have to.



MY OWN DANK said:


> Man what a light...love it


 Right? I call it a Zero Point Module when showing it to ppl that come round, thing looks like it fell outta a UFO, I love it.


----------



## MY OWN DANK (Aug 7, 2021)

Canglish said:


> Oh my, somebody that doesn't HATE my light, thank you for being open minded sir, I can't believe the amount of shit I have been given on other communities by "expert" aka sponsored posters. Yes indeed I have high hopes for the thing, I met the guy who made them and he is a smart cookie when it comes to growing and especially LED tech. The plants seem to be enjoying it so far too.
> 
> I am doing colosseum type vert scrog as opposed to putting netting the walls as these lights can be within an inch of the plants and not burn or bleach anything, I know that is a bold claim but we shall see I guess. After looking at your netting however I am now thinking that the holes in my chicken wire arrangement may not be big enough, advice appreciated here if you have any.
> 
> ...


Its badass...looks like it belongs at a Rave...or a grow room...
I go from sprouting in a cup to final pot....7gallon smart pots


----------



## JimmiP (Aug 7, 2021)

Canglish said:


> Oh my, somebody that doesn't HATE my light, thank you for being open minded sir, I can't believe the amount of shit I have been given on other communities by "expert" aka sponsored posters. Yes indeed I have high hopes for the thing, I met the guy who made them and he is a smart cookie when it comes to growing and especially LED tech. The plants seem to be enjoying it so far too.
> 
> I am doing colosseum type vert scrog as opposed to putting netting the walls as these lights can be within an inch of the plants and not burn or bleach anything, I know that is a bold claim but we shall see I guess. After looking at your netting however I am now thinking that the holes in my chicken wire arrangement may not be big enough, advice appreciated here if you have any.
> 
> ...


Well you don't want your plants that close. Your chicken wire barrier is a good idea. I don't know if it's a good light yet either. I have seen others like it but haven't really seen what they can do yet. I hope it does a great job..
You will need to repot the plants. It doesn't matter if they like it or if you are worried about it. It needs to be done and you can get it done.
Wait a few days. Then the day after, or later in the same day, after you water next, dump it out of its current pot and into a much bigger one. I vote a 7-10 gallon fabric pot.
Keep the plants in veg another couple of weeks and then if it's ready switch them to flower. You will need a wire trellis behind each plant. The trellising let's you spread the branches out evenly and tie them into position. Then all of the flower sites will be close to the same distance away from the lights. The chicken wire can just keep the buds from growing too close.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2021)

Johiem said:


> Don't know if he's still around but @gr865 had a beautiful vertical grow. That dude knows a lot.
> Haven't seen him around though.


It's been a little while but I think he's still at it. He's doing something a bit different than vertical so he's not in this sub at the moment.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2021)

Canglish said:


> Thank you ttystikk (I woulda quoted you but I can't yet) that is some solid, succinct advice and hugely appreciated. Yep, I am doing the colosseum version of vertical scrog, I did originally want to use one plant for each side of the cage around the light but I also want to see what this light does with plants that grow ordinarily so I am going to do two as vert scrog and two normal so I can compare the yields.
> 
> I have repotted but only into 5 liter pots. I was more naturally inclined to do what you say and repot into their final pots but I got conflicting advice and have only just read yours. I was also told that I shouldn't bloom until the plants are roughly 3 feet tall, this is much less than what you advise, not saying you are wrong but care to clarify? Here to learn.


I ran vertical around HPS lights, then around 860W CDM (same tech as CMH, just a bigger lamp) and then water cooled COB LED of my own design... And then midpower LED in 4' bars.

I ran round vertical silos here (long these in this sub), first 3' tall and then 6' tall. I've put as much as 3kW in one silo.

I ended up running straight flat panels with an aisle between the plants and the vertical LED lights. Why? There's more room for plants, people and lights. Better yields and better ventilation. Geometry helped me make the decision.

There's more, I'll discuss it if you want.


----------



## m4s73r (Aug 8, 2021)

Id like to know more about that light and have a some par numbers around the inside of that tent.


----------



## gr865 (Aug 9, 2021)

@Johiem Thanks bud.
@ttystikk Thanks, yeah still hanging around. Waiting on my new 5 x 5 Gorilla GT. Moving my operations to my shop, so been spending way to much monies for what will be my grow area and my Man Cave, LOL
@Canglish Hey do use LED's in my vert grows, but there are some in my signature and I can provide link to some of the others. I will be glad to help, just ask.
Remember, be it vertical or horizontal, Less is More!


----------



## Canglish (Aug 9, 2021)

JimmiP said:


> You will need to repot the plants. It doesn't matter if they like it or if you are worried about it. It needs to be done and you can get it done.


Thank you, I needed that, another repot coming up soon.

@ttystikk any and all advice appreciated, plus if you see me doing something dumb please feel free to point it out
@m4s73r I asked them about PAR numbers but the guy that makes them grumbled and started talking about watts vs PPFI / PPFD vs distance and he kinda lost me, apparently though the plants are supposed to be as close to the light as possible
@gr865 thank you for dropping in, if I have a question I will specifically @ you and ttstykk in my post, this is awesome and why I joined, phew!


----------



## Canglish (Aug 9, 2021)

Week 4

   

Pretty boring week as they took to their new pots and I flushed again when their soil dried out. Thelma-Lou hasn't grown at all hardly so I am thinking the repot was not good for her (as well as the nutrient burn previously) as she wasn't quite as ready as the rest of them, could probably have done with another week in her original pot.


----------



## Canglish (Aug 9, 2021)

Week 5

    

They are seeming to bush out now as well as grow taller. Thelma-Lou still had a bad week but has perked up in the last few days so her roots have obviously taken, I will be sure to repot her next time 10 or so days later than her friends. As far as the size differences are concerned Ronald and Nancy are both Elephant X White Widow whereas Barney and Thelma Lou are both pure White Widow. If Thelma-Lou hadn't had such a tough few weeks I am thinking that she would be the same size as Barney.

I have started bending the branches into the cage, more to train them than actually keep them where they are right now as per @JimmiP's suggestion, thank you for that it is going to be my next weeks obsession. I will be keeping the same side of the plant facing the light from this point onwards so they start to naturally train themselves in that direction, if this is a dumb idea please tell me so.

Oh I have started to use nutrient water as of last night too. I prepared a mix that was slightly less potent than what the label suggested. Will be doing two pure waterings to one food watering from now on, again, if anyone thinks I should do differently please say so.


----------



## Canglish (Aug 9, 2021)

@gr865 Man I am LOVING the frame idea, that is SO versatile!


----------



## MY OWN DANK (Aug 10, 2021)

Canglish said:


> Week 5
> 
> View attachment 4961953 View attachment 4961954 View attachment 4961955 View attachment 4961956 View attachment 4961957
> 
> ...


Couple of em are looking a little toasty...watch your nitrogen...leaf tips pointing down, burnt tips, dark green leaves are a sign of N toxicity


----------



## Canglish (Aug 10, 2021)

MY OWN DANK said:


> Couple of em are looking a little toasty...watch your nitrogen...leaf tips pointing down, burnt tips, dark green leaves are a sign of N toxicity


Yeh that has been BUGGING me, I think it is an excess leftover from the nutrient burn. I used a less potent mix of nutrients this time after flushing twice and only using pure water for the last 3 waterings. It does seem to be improving with each new set of leaves and there are only a few on each plant which show this problem, i will most definitely be keeping an eye on it and thank you for the suggest.


----------

