# Will water softeners provide enough....



## max316420 (Oct 4, 2011)

Just wondering if the salt used in water softeners is in any way the same as epsom salt thus providing extra magnesium?


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## bboybojo (Oct 4, 2011)

I believe hard water is high in magnesium and calcium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softening "*Water softening* is the reduction of the concentration of calcium, magnesium, and other ions in hard water."
Increases sodium, which isn't what you want.


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## cannawizard (Oct 4, 2011)

max316420 said:


> Just wondering if the salt used in water softeners is in any way the same as epsom salt thus providing extra magnesium?


**i'd go with the same sentinment


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## max316420 (Oct 4, 2011)

bboybojo said:


> I believe hard water is high in magnesium and calcium.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softening "*Water softening* is the reduction of the concentration of calcium, magnesium, and other ions in hard water."
> Increases sodium, which isn't what you want.


But if your water softener is one that uses salt to soften the water, wouldn't that provide added magnesium the same as epsom salt would?


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## max316420 (Oct 4, 2011)

The reason I ask is because if I don't supplement with calmag I run into def's in one of my strains during flowering. At one of my old spots the water was well and had to run through a water softener and I never used any supplements and didn't have any problems with it. These ladies are magnesium hogs....


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 5, 2011)

No. There are two salts sold for commercial/residential softeners - sodium chloride which is the most common, and potassium chloride, expensive and rarely used except by those that are salt intolerant.

What are the symptoms of your plants' Mg deficiency? Who says you need extra Mg ....some forum post or some symptom? If you have your plant nutrition in balance, you don't need supplements and when folks don't know, they always pull the lame solution of "epsom salts" or "pH your water", both uninformed, noob paradigms that just won't die in cannabis forums. Additives usually do more harm than good due to a nutrient antagonism effect. Look around, the worst looking gardens are those that buy into the supplement/additives hype, add stuff to their plants that is not needed (thinking it will produce da 'big bud' cause Johnny said it does)........always getting themselves into trouble with the necrotic yellowing leaves thingie.

Using sodium chloride in your water softener..... you're substituting Ca and Mg ions in the form of carbonates and bicarbonates for sodium ions using a resin bed that exchanges those ions. IOW, never use softened water for plants. Although the finished Na ppm is rather low after the softener goes thru a cycle, it will build up over time. 

Facts over feelings mah man......


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## max316420 (Oct 5, 2011)




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## Dennis Rodman (Oct 5, 2011)

dont feed your plants water that's gone through a softener....

the softener gets rid of all the calcium and replaces it with... sodium i think?

not good.
dont feed softened water to your plants


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## max316420 (Oct 5, 2011)

I have tried everything under the sun to remedy this, more feeding, less feeding, different food, co2, no co2, tap water, ro water, calmag (2 different kinds), lights closer, lights farther away, dolomite lime (pelletized, and powered).. The only thing I haven't tried yet is to start supplementing right before the lights are switched to 12/12. Never a problem in veg only in flowering. Working on the earlier supplementing now


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## max316420 (Oct 5, 2011)

Dennis Rodman said:


> dont feed your plants water that's gone through a softener....
> 
> the softener gets rid of all the calcium and replaces it with... sodium i think?
> 
> ...


I don't use that water anymore because I have moved from that spot, It only happens to this one strain and Its driving me nuts. I wanna just get rid of this strain but I have had it for like 6 years. My buddy used to make my soil and never had a problem with it but as soon as I used any other soil I kept running into this problem. It is stressing me the fuck out


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## max316420 (Oct 5, 2011)

And its def not a N def, I know that for a fact lol


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## max316420 (Oct 5, 2011)

The reason I never started supplementing during veg is because I actually have tried it in veg but the plant never responded well to it. Only deficient during flowering


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 5, 2011)

You've got a micro deficiency most likely induced by a high P of K food. Don't blame it on the strain. Check out your plant foods.


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## max316420 (Oct 5, 2011)

Not the plant foods cause I have tried many of them, that is a mag def. Here is a list of all that I have tried

Fox farm
advanced nutes
MG
General hydroponics
neptunes harvest
dutch master
earth juice
humboldt
ionic
alaska fish ferts
and probably a few others that i'm forgetting..

So yes it is the strain, what is that not believable? Non of my other stains do this, only the blueberry. Not tryin to bust your balls by please explain how that is a "micro def"? Because I completely disagree


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## budleydoright (Oct 7, 2011)

I think UB is saying too much pk type boost may have locked out other elements. They are there, just not available to the plant due to an inbalance. Correcting the problem won't fix the damaged leaves so keep a keen eye the newer growth.


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## Wolverine97 (Oct 7, 2011)

max316420 said:


> Not the plant foods cause I have tried many of them, that is a mag def. Here is a list of all that I have tried
> 
> Fox farm
> advanced nutes
> ...


_It's the strain_ in the sense that that particular strain is probably a calcium and magnesium whore, but there is only so much available to the plant _because_ of high p/k bloom boosters. So it's not the strain per se, but the nutrient ratio you're giving that strain (even though it's the same as you give to your others). I've had this problem in the past, the answer is that sometimes less is truly more. You need to try tweaking your ratio's, or supplementing your soil differently. If you were to add a good source of potassium and phosphorus in the soil, then you would only need to occasionally supplement with bottled nutrients. Things stay more available because the soil life does the work. Everyone's happy.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 7, 2011)

Where in the hell did this guy think that the salts used in softeners was MgSO4?

Only in Advanced Troll-It-Up.........


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## elduece (Oct 10, 2011)

max316420 said:


> Not the plant foods cause I have tried many of them, that is a mag def. Here is a list of all that I have tried
> 
> Fox farm
> advanced nutes
> ...


I feel you man, it's genetics. I had two Jilly Beans out of 30 JBs I've ever grown that exhibited Mg defs from seed in rooters to harvest after 3 transplants! Neither the meristem and lateral clones of them weren't even spared from that trait.


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