# Your Grandpa's Weed or is UV supplementation really needed?



## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

They say that today's weed is not your Fathers weed, well it's not your Grandpa's either. As an old Hippie that came of age in the early 70's (and who is now a Grandpa) I smoked your Grandpa's weed and it is what I breed and grow. Complex euphoric highs that have no ceiling and last a good while (what we stoners refer to as having legs).

I've gotten in trouble here before for saying things that make it seem like I'm boasting or bragging when I was actually just tryin to share some info. It was suggested I let others speak about it, so I'm gonna add a few quotes from others but only to make a point as this is gonna be long 

RMM said,

"My Green Crack is like a shiny sports-car.
It hauls ass, will get you there, but Rids smoke is like a slow creeping tank that will drive right over the top of that shiny car and crush it with old school steel!"

Miyagi said,

"First, with all respect and honesty and not in the least a criticism... Riddleme's buds are NOT magical, mystical things that are better than anything you have ever come across. They are AS good or damn close to the best weed that people who remember the best weed have ever had though and for a lot of people who haven't had truly good pot it would blow away everything they know about weed."

@Afgan King said,

"got to meet the legend @RM3 today over at @ttystikk and gonna follow his advice in breeding cause after smoking his strain today all I can say is humbling. Had a whole different type of high I smoke an average of quarter pound week and I smoke a lil Pinner joint between 3 other people and damn."

Why am I posting this? Well it was prompted by this thread about UV ,
https://www.rollitup.org/t/adding-uvb-spectrum-to-cobs-opinions-on-this-setup.919962/

Seems there are a lot of believers and non-believers, like all of the cannabis related topics. So I wanted to share for the community what I have learned from my experiments over many years and as always propose that you, the reader, do experiments for yourself to reach your own conclusions.

The first thing I will point out/suggest is that if you are one that likes/enjoys couch lock highs then don't do it ! Nothing I grow has any couch lock effect and I have grown many Land Race Indicas.

I set up my T5 tanning booth so I could mix and match various different bulbs with different spectrums at different ratio's and from doing this for many years I have learned several things ,,,,

It is a Deep Blue spectrum (think 10,000K finisher bulbs) that grow more trics, they DO NOT increase potency.

UVA (think Actinic bulbs) Does increase potency but not as much as if UVB is also present.

There are few bulbs available that actually get er done as far as UVB is concerned for our needs if we intend to duplicate the levels from the sun indoors.

In order to get the most from UV supplementation Sulfur is required and best used in the form of Sulfates !!!

I use Potassium Sulfate and Magnesium Sulfate 

"Mel Frank offers this micronutrient formula for high cannabinoid production: Fe-sulfate (5 mg/gal), Cu-sulfate (0.2 mg/gal), Mn-sulfate (2 mg/gal), Zn-sulfate (0.2 mg/gal), Boric acid (2 mg/gal), Molybdenic acid (0.1 mg/gal). Use 1 tspn/gal of nutrient solution, once monthly."

I have yet to use this but do intend to further experiment with several other sulfates in the future.

Yet another aspect of this that is disregarded is that seeded weed under UV light is more potent, Yes, I know there will be nay-sayers. but all you gotta do to see for self is grow 2 clones side by side and only pollinate one lower branch on one to see I'm right. As a breeder I always smoke seeded weed  

I've been doing this for years and because I breed I use UV light in all stages of growing. There is not a lot of documented research regarding UV light and Cannabis but please allow me to share the links I have found that are at least useful ,,,,,,,

https://smartgrowtechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/UVB-RADIATION.pdf

https://smartgrowtechnologies.com/list-of-uv-b-radiation-effects-on-cannabinoids-thc-studies/

http://www.solacure.com/plants.html

http://www.solacure.com/horticulture.html

http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/iha01201.html

http://www.amjbot.org/content/91/6/966.full

http://www.ukcia.org/research/opticsandthc.pdf

http://marijuana-optics.greatnow.com/

http://www.ukcia.org/research/opticsandthc.pdf


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> They say that today's weed is not your Fathers weed, well it's not your Grandpa's either. As an old Hippie that came of age in the early 70's (and who is now a Grandpa) I smoked your Grandpa's weed and it is what I breed and grow. Complex euphoric highs that have no ceiling and last a good while (what we stoners refer to as having legs).
> 
> I've gotten in trouble here before for saying things that make it seem like I'm boasting or bragging when I was actually just tryin to share some info. It was suggested I let others speak about it, so I'm gonna add a few quotes from others but only to make a point as this is gonna be long
> 
> ...


So are you saying that you use additional UV yourself? If so I would like to know what additional bulbs you use since HPS and MH wont cut it compared to the sun.


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## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> So are you saying that you use additional UV yourself? If so I would like to know what additional bulbs you use since HPS and MH wont cut it compared to the sun.


I grow under 1000 watts of T5 (18 bulbs) and I have tested many bulbs. The ones I recommend are ,,,,

ATI Coral Plus
ATI True Actinic
Agromax Pure UVB (requires caution) 
Agromax UV-A Plus
.


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

Nice. 

I concur with the info. I have used this info for my own growing. I use a similar setup and it gets good results. There are pics in my thread showing the process and results.


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I grow under 1000 watts of T5 (18 bulbs) and I have tested many bulbs. The ones I recommend are ,,,,
> 
> ATI Coral Plus
> ATI True Actinic
> ...


Ok cool, Im not a T5 guy but Im thinking of trying the PURE UVB light in between my COBs. Any recommendations for run time and distance?


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## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Ok cool, Im not a T5 guy but Im thinking of trying the PURE UVB light in between my COBs. Any recommendations for run time and distance?


Minimum of 36 inches off the canopy and timed in 15 minute spurts during the 4 middle hours of flower (to mimic high noon sun)

and the Pure UVB bulb is intense, you need to be able to shut it off if you are in the garden !!!

Trust me on this !!!!!


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Minimum of 36 inches off the canopy and timed in 15 minute spurts during the 4 middle hours of flower (to mimic high noon sun)
> 
> and the Pure UVB bulb is intense, you need to be able to shut it off if you are in the garden !!!
> 
> Trust me on this !!!!!


All through flower? Last 2 weeks? or all the way from seed?


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## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> All through flower? Last 2 weeks? or all the way from seed?


That's just for flower, I don't use the Pure UVB any where else.

Since your garden is not mine and you are usin COB's I would suggest experimenting for best results as far as times to run it, just be aware that any more than what I suggested will cause damage to the plants


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## Tyleb173rd (Sep 5, 2016)

How many plants do you flower under 1000W of T-5 lights and in what size space? I'm an amateur grower, at best, and it seems foreign to me that someone as skilled as yourself uses T-5. I mean no disrespect sir but I'm just curious.


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## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> How many plants do you flower under 1000W of T-5 lights and in what size space? I'm an amateur grower, at best, and it seems foreign to me that someone as skilled as yourself uses T-5. I mean no disrespect sir but I'm just curious.


It depends on what I'm workin on, my little garden is a 5 X 5 or 25 sq ft you are welcome to check out my grow journal,

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-leprechauns-pot-o-gold.855314/

You see I do pretty much every thing different than what most do because I want the Grandpa weed


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Ok cool, Im not a T5 guy but Im thinking of trying the PURE UVB light in between my COBs. Any recommendations for run time and distance?


The agromax 10,000k+uva is a good bulb to run. ITs not as strong as the pure uv.


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## Yodaweed (Sep 5, 2016)

Well back in my day we had to walk 2 miles in the snow uphill both ways just to get our weed.


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## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

Yodaweed said:


> Well back in my day we had to walk 2 miles in the snow uphill both ways just to get our weed.


Exactly


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## Fastslappy (Sep 5, 2016)

what would you use in a smaller room like 7' x 8' 
2 single 2 footers of the pure uv @ the ceiling centered ? would that be Over Kill ? 
I'm famous for OverKill


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> The agromax 10,000k+uva is a good bulb to run. ITs not as strong as the pure uv.


UVB is what you want not A as much.


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## Fastslappy (Sep 5, 2016)

Yodaweed said:


> Well back in my day we had to walk 2 miles in the snow uphill both ways just to get our weed.


And 1/2 the time the guy didn't have any by the time we got there


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## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> UVB is what you want not A as much.


They both come from the sun and both have an effect on our plants, even the Pure UVB bulb has both


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## Yodaweed (Sep 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> They both come from the sun and both have an effect on our plants, even the Pure UVB bulb has both


I think UV-C is also important, not for buildings trics but for keeping spores (especially damn PM) at bay. They use it in hospitals to filter the air.


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## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> what would you use in a smaller room like 7' x 8'
> 2 single 2 footers of the pure uv @ the ceiling centered ? would that be Over Kill ?
> I'm famous for OverKill


would depend on how everything was set up, hard to say without seein it?


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> They both come from the sun and both have an effect on our plants, even the Pure UVB bulb has both


Yup and thats why I would only run that.


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## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

Yodaweed said:


> I think UV-C is also important, not for buildings trics but for keeping spores (especially damn PM) at bay. They use it in hospitals to filter the air.


*UV radiation*
*What is the difference between UVA, UVB and UVC?*
The three types of UV radiation are classified according to their wavelength. They differ in their biological activity and the extent to which they can penetrate the skin. The shorter the wavelength, the more harmful the UV radiation. However, shorter wavelength UV radiation is less able to penetrate the skin.

*Short-wavelength UVC is the most damaging type of UV radiation. However, it is completely filtered by the atmosphere and does not reach the earth's surface.*

Medium-wavelength UVB is very biologically active but cannot penetrate beyond the superficial skin layers. It is responsible for delayed tanning and burning; in addition to these short-term effects it enhances skin ageing and significantly promotes the development of skin cancer. *Most solar UVB is filtered by the atmosphere.*

The relatively long-wavelength* UVA accounts for approximately 95 per cent of the UV radiation reaching the Earth's surface. *It can penetrate into the deeper layers of the skin and is responsible for the immediate tanning effect. Furthermore, it also contributes to skin ageing and wrinkling. For a long time it was thought that UVA could not cause any lasting damage. Recent studies strongly suggest that it may also enhance the development of skin cancers.


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## Yodaweed (Sep 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> *UV radiation*
> *What is the difference between UVA, UVB and UVC?*
> The three types of UV radiation are classified according to their wavelength. They differ in their biological activity and the extent to which they can penetrate the skin. The shorter the wavelength, the more harmful the UV radiation. However, shorter wavelength UV radiation is less able to penetrate the skin.
> 
> ...


Yea I had my HVAC guy install a UV-C light in my ducting system so spores are killed, works great but its pricey.


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## RM3 (Sep 5, 2016)

Yodaweed said:


> Yea I had my HVAC guy install a UV-C light in my ducting system so spores are killed, works great but its pricey.


It's also used at water treatment plants, it does kill things


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> UVB is what you want not A as much.


My experiments say different.

Uva and b both would be best. 

The agromax uva+ gets the job done.


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## Tyleb173rd (Sep 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> It depends on what I'm workin on, my little garden is a 5 X 5 or 25 sq ft you are welcome to check out my grow journal,
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-leprechauns-pot-o-gold.855314/
> 
> You see I do pretty much every thing different than what most do because I want the Grandpa weed


Thank you.


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## Friction1957 (Sep 5, 2016)

This is going to be fun to follow.

I smoked my first joint the summer of '69. So ya, grandpa weed is just my speed! My 2 grandkids spend time over here now and again and I've told them my plants are just more of grandpa's vegetables.


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## hillbill (Sep 5, 2016)

Summer of '69 here to, damn it. Also remember my first southern Mexican weed. I think I remember it. I still smell it in my head. Lake Chapala area of origin. Trippy but Stoney. Not had similar since. I also remember kilos with stems like jumbo pencils in them. Everything had tons of seeds that were much more explosive... Really. I've had same strains seeded and some not. Taste and high seem different, even from unseeded buds on the seeded plant. Can't say better but different.

The high grade pot back then did seem more psychedelic and at $20 a zip it better! But there really was a lot of low to mid stuff around also. Smoked hashish often as it was always around and always killer, blonde and red Lebanese, Moroccan, afghan and afghan-primo.


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## OGEvilgenius (Sep 5, 2016)

Yodaweed said:


> Yea I had my HVAC guy install a UV-C light in my ducting system so spores are killed, works great but its pricey.


How powerful is that light? From what I've read spores can survive in space for hundreds+ years.


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 6, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> My experiments say different.
> 
> Uva and b both would be best.
> 
> ...


Which one is the control subject?


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## ttystikk (Sep 6, 2016)

I can speak to @RM3's results and everything he says is on the money. 

I haven't begun to experiment with UV in my setup yet, but it's coming!


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## SSGrower (Sep 6, 2016)

Have you ever measured the actual radiated energy of your setup? A photo radiometer can be rented for about 50 bucks a day, this will break out uva, b, and c, ir, and total energy but won't do spectral analysis. Haven't found a spectra photo radiometer for rent or for sale <$4k.
Are there any brick and mortar stores that carry agromax in co? I'm not looking for an endorsement I just would prefer not ordering online. Plus if you really want to have fun just start talking about using t5 or led for anything but veg and watch the employee's head explode!!!


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## RM3 (Sep 6, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> Have you ever measured the actual radiated energy of your setup? A photo radiometer can be rented for about 50 bucks a day, this will break out uva, b, and c, ir, and total energy but won't do spectral analysis. Haven't found a spectra photo radiometer for rent or for sale <$4k.
> Are there any brick and mortar stores that carry agromax in co? I'm not looking for an endorsement I just would prefer not ordering online. Plus if you really want to have fun just start talking about using t5 or led for anything but veg and watch the employee's head explode!!!


No

Got em here, in Commerce City

http://www.htgsupply.com/locations/store-commercecity


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## SSGrower (Sep 6, 2016)

Thanks.

Any interest if I rent one?


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## RM3 (Sep 6, 2016)

SSGrower said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Any interest if I rent one?


Not really, I'm more interested in plant response than what the numbers are


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## SSGrower (Sep 6, 2016)

That's kind of what I was trying to get at, they're like their own little meter. If I do rent one I'll try to post unbiased results. I'm also interested in how powering the lamps makes a difference, it must based on the physics at play, like with cobs.


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## Rob Roy (Sep 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> They say that today's weed is not your Fathers weed, well it's not your Grandpa's either. As an old Hippie that came of age in the early 70's (and who is now a Grandpa) I smoked your Grandpa's weed and it is what I breed and grow. Complex euphoric highs that have no ceiling and last a good while (what we stoners refer to as having legs).
> 
> I've gotten in trouble here before for saying things that make it seem like I'm boasting or bragging when I was actually just tryin to share some info. It was suggested I let others speak about it, so I'm gonna add a few quotes from others but only to make a point as this is gonna be long
> 
> ...




I'm curious to learn more about your experiences with seeded weed being more potent. What do you attribute it to ? 

Also, the non couch locking indicas, could you offer some more details on how that's accomplished ?


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## 714steadyeddie (Sep 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> They say that today's weed is not your Fathers weed, well it's not your Grandpa's either. As an old Hippie that came of age in the early 70's (and who is now a Grandpa) I smoked your Grandpa's weed and it is what I breed and grow. Complex euphoric highs that have no ceiling and last a good while (what we stoners refer to as having legs).
> 
> I've gotten in trouble here before for saying things that make it seem like I'm boasting or bragging when I was actually just tryin to share some info. It was suggested I let others speak about it, so I'm gonna add a few quotes from others but only to make a point as this is gonna be long
> 
> ...



About time you leave us another Gem, great stuff as always


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## RM3 (Sep 6, 2016)

714steadyeddie said:


> About time you leave us another Gem, great stuff as always


Been busy tryin to get this new light (based on this research with T5's) goin 
http://www.riddlem3.com/light/
Tis a labor of love


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## RM3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Rob Roy said:


> I'm curious to learn more about your experiences with seeded weed being more potent. What do you attribute it to ?
> 
> Also, the non couch locking indicas, could you offer some more details on how that's accomplished ?


My research indicates that there are cannabinoids found in seeded plants that are not found in unseeded plants so there could be an extended entourage effect ? It could also be that the plant gets more serious about protecting the seeds from the UV rays ? There is not a lot of research on this yet but those would be my best guesses as to why it happens.

As for no couch lock, I grow very differently, use a different spectrum, with different lights, different light timings, a sulfur rich medium. I have always (in my thoughts) attributed couch lock to hps lights and 12/12 timing ? But I honestly don't know if it one or combination of all? I actually wanted a couch lock strain for sleep but none I've ever grown have had it and I'm not changin how I grow cause I loves the Grandpa weed


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## RM3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Finally, researchers appear to have identified the actual pathway of exactly how UVB affects THC production. While the analysis is somewhat technical, we’ll do our best to outline the results below. Ready?

UVB causes damage in plants in much the same way as it damages human skin, and plants created defenses against UVB in the form of a protein called UVR8.

UVR8 is a protein molecule which senses UV, and then “tells” plant cells to change their behavior. Exactly how UVR8 molecules sense UV was recently discovered and is pretty interesting. UVR8 is what chemists call a “dimer,” which simply means that it’s made of two structurally similar protein subunits. When UV light hits the two protein subunits in UVR8, their charge weakens and they break apart. To help visualize this, imagine rubbing two balloons against one another. The balloons will stick together because of a static charge. Now imagine the balloons get rained on. The water takes the static charge with it and the two balloons fly apart. In this example, the balloons are the two protein subunits and the rain is UV light cascading down on the plant cell. After the protein subunits break apart, they head to the cell nucleus to deliver their information.

One of these changes caused by this reaction is very important in your cannabis garden. UV stress stimulates cannabis’ production of chemicals via the phenylpropanoid pathway, specifically malonyl-CoA and phenylalanine. Why is this important? Because cannabis uses malonyl-CoA to make Olivtol, which it in turn uses to make THC. So finally the specific pathway which increases Cannabis potency when exposed to UV light is understood, and we can use this information to our advantage.


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## RM3 (Sep 6, 2016)

cheapest UV meter I've found (no I don't have one ,,,,yet)

https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html


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## thegyoseedbank (Sep 6, 2016)

Yodaweed said:


> Yea I had my HVAC guy install a UV-C light in my ducting system so spores are killed, works great but its pricey.


Yeah, I wouldn't dump money into it unless your going to stay at your house for a long time


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Finally, researchers appear to have identified the actual pathway of exactly how UVB affects THC production. While the analysis is somewhat technical, we’ll do our best to outline the results below. Ready?
> 
> UVB causes damage in plants in much the same way as it damages human skin, and plants created defenses against UVB in the form of a protein called UVR8.
> 
> ...


Can you post the source?


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 6, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Which one is the control subject?


None of those. 

That's my thoughts of using it and growing with different bulbs.

The uva bulb is made by the same people that make the pure UV bulb. The uva bulb is a horticulture bulb.


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## RM3 (Sep 6, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Can you post the source?


the quote is from a blog article, I believe the source study is here

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/332/6025/103

lots of ref links in the wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVR8


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## RM3 (Sep 6, 2016)

http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/18856/Articles/The effect of ultraviolet radiation on the accumulation of medicinal compounds in plants.pdf.


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## SSGrower (Sep 6, 2016)

Of minimal relevance but agromax 10000k + uva not avaliable in 2ft,,,,,,yet.


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## ttystikk (Sep 6, 2016)

Absolutely fascinating stuff here!

I've been told and have read in several places that 320nm UVB is the most effective for resin production. Is there anything in the study that might shed light on why this is?


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## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

I'm very skeptical of UV making any difference at all in THC. I hear it a lot.. I've seen the studies... but it's just not enough to convince me. There's just not enough data for me to make a good conclusion.


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I'm very skeptical of UV making any difference at all in THC. I hear it a lot.. I've seen the studies... but it's just not enough to convince me. There's just not enough data for me to make a good conclusion.


Try it.


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## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Try it.


I've tried a lot more than you think. (Even a coffin of tubes including actinic).


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## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 6, 2016)

In nature when folks grow outside....yes mile high Denver imho qualifies...as does the S.American Andes or any range that can go a mile above sea lvl or higher. I think a neighbor who is/was a lifelong tibetan claims the altitude allows more of the suns rays ( I took this as more uv exposure at altitude) as opposed to lower lvl gardens. There must be more technology down the line in uv bulb production of like to think. lots to be explored imho.


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I've tried a lot more than you think. (Even a coffin of tubes including actinic).


I know but what would a rm3 thread be without churchhaze?


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## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I know but what would a rm3 thread be without churchhaze?


I don't have a right to express my opinion on this? Just to clear things up, this is an RIU thread, not a RM3 thread.


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## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

I just looked at the fundraising campaign to help RM3 produce an LED lamp....

"High Quality Bridgelux 3W chips"

Straight up, he's looking to design another ripoff lamp to put on the over-saturated market and he wants you to help him fund the startup. RM3, invest in your own business. There's absolutely no reason for anyone to crowd fund yet another garbage product just for your own sake. Literally, people would be better off if they just donated money directly to your living expenses and didn't bother wasting their time with such a nonsense product. Give the *beggar *some money, then go buy an HPS lamp.

"say no to blurple", then in the picture you see a 660nm epiled. Complete garbage... Complete lie... Something tells me his kindergarten competitors are going to kick his ass. Verified con man...

No good....


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I just looked at the fundraising campaign to help RM3 produce an LED lamp....
> 
> "High Quality Bridgelux 3W chips"
> 
> ...


Yeah agreed, not because of opinion... but because they suck.. its all in my signature. Then you have this fool with his OOOOOooooOOOoOOoMols.... People that focus on umol/s and PPF instead of PPDF are what make my blood boil lol.


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## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Yeah agreed, not because of opinion... but because they suck.. its all in my signature. Then you have this fool with his OOOOOooooOOOoOOoMols.... People that focus on umol/s and PPF instead of PPDF are what make my blood boil lol.


umol/s of PAR (or W of PAR) is what matters. PPF is a more important number than PPFD when buying a lamp. A lot of light companies will use reflectors and lenses to get a high PPFD in a very small area, but only PPF (total photon flux) or total power (W of PAR) tells you the whole story.

Edit: Of course, PPF and power don't make it a good light. That's efficiency and quantum efficacy of the source in umol/J.


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## hillbill (Sep 6, 2016)

Being as I received welder flash several times when running Philips CMH, I will limit my uv exposure to reading this thread. I am however getting as much frostiness or even more under COB's as I was under cmh. I have 2 of the most triched up plants I ever had right now under 3500k-4000k COB's. 

I am also not convinced that light of a very near wave length would not prompt similar response in plant like deep blues, present happily in COB's stunning white light.

Again though with my flash history I am not worthy of dangerous wave lengths.


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> umol/s of PAR (or W of PAR) is what matters. PPF is a more important number than PPFD when buying a lamp. A lot of light companies will use reflectors and lenses to get a high PPFD in a very small area, but only PPF (total photon flux) or total power (W of PAR) tells you the whole story.
> 
> Edit: Of course, PPF and power don't make it a good light. That's efficiency and quantum efficacy of the source in umol/J.


This is vastly inaccurate. I suggest checking your sources. on PPFD.. not PAR


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## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> This is vastly inaccurate. I suggest checking your sources.


Do you plan on starting a lighting company too? Why would I need to check sources? PPFD is PPF/A. When you're buying a lamp, you're buying PPF. When you buy a tent, you're buying A.


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Do you plan on starting a lighting company too?


No but when a DE Gavida PRO 1000W puts out 600PPFD (ish) in a 4x4 at 24in... and something puts out a higher PPFD for the same area with less Watts... that means it has a higher output of par light... Not the PPF... Wattage doesnt effect output because you can get the same for around 500-600W. PPF is one spot that you measure PPFD is the whole area averaged out.


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## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> No but when a DE Gavida PRO 1000W puts out 600PPFD (ish) in a 4x4 at 24in... and something puts out a higher PPFD for the same area with less Watts... that means it has a higher output of par light... Not the PPF... Wattage doesnt effect output because you can get the same for around 500-600W. PPF is one spot that you measure PPFD is the whole area averaged out.


If you had 600umol/s/m^2 but only in a 1x1 instead of a 4x4?, is the light is just as good because it has 600umol/s/m^s? Why not? It's because when you talk about average PPFD over an area, it becomes PPF. PPFD is PPF/A... and when you multiply that by area, it becomes PPF.

Average PPFD * A = PPF. (See the units.)


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Wattage doesnt effect output


Wattage (radiant power)* is* the output. Efficiency = power out/power in.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I don't have a right to express my opinion on this? Just to clear things up, this is an RIU thread, not a RM3 thread.


Of course you have the right.



churchhaze said:


> I just looked at the fundraising campaign to help RM3 produce an LED lamp....
> 
> "High Quality Bridgelux 3W chips"
> 
> ...


Ah, there's that bitterness and name calling unprovoked. 

I knew it would come out sooner or later.


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> If you had 600umol/s/m^2 but only in a 1x1 instead of a 4x4?, is the light is just as good because it has 600umol/s/m^s? Why not? It's because when you talk about average PPFD over an area, it becomes PPF. PPFD is PPF/A... and when you multiply that by area, it becomes PPF.
> 
> Average PPFD * A = PPF. (See the units.)


Then do you see that math being worked out here? You only use PPFD when you compare equal size areas. I thought that was a given.


CXB3590DB36V4000K 16 COBS @1.4A ON 1.813 PROFILE HEATSINK
25 SQ.FT. CANOPY 94% EFFICIENT DRIVER @13 CENTS PER KWH
Total power watts at the wall: 831.91
Cobs power watts: 782
Total voltage forward: 558
Total lumens: 154163
Total PAR watts assuming 10% loss: 430
Total PPF: 1947.9
PPFD based on canopy area: 838.68
PAR watts per sq.ft.: 17.2
Cob efficiency: 61.03%
Power watts per sq.ft.: 31.28
Voltage forward per cob: 34.89
Lumens per watt: 197.14
Heatsink riser thickness / number of fins / fin's length: 0.3in/6/0.95in
Heatsink area per inch: 100.94 cm^2
Total heat watts: 305
umol/s/W / CRI: 4.53 / 70CRI
Heatsink length passive cooling @120cm^2/heatwatt: 363 inches
Heatsink length active cooling @40cm^2/heatwatt: 121 inches
COB cost dollar per PAR watt: $1.87
Electric cost @12/12 in 30 days: $39.43
Electric cost @18/6 in 30 days: $58.9
Cost per cob: $50.17
Heatsink cost per inch cut: $0.66
Total cobs cost: $803
Total heatsink passive cooling cost: $240
Total heatsink active cooling cost: $79


I understand where youre coming from but its the whole industry thats wrong about how to properly approach the measurements. Heres a good link on it.

https://www.ledgrowlightsdepot.com/pages/par-ppf-ppfd-and-dli-uncovered
https://growershouse.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/blog_digilumeDE_PAR.jpg


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Of course you have the right.
> 
> 
> Ah, there's that bitterness and name calling unprovoked.
> ...


Why don't you give the beggar some money to buy some epileds so he can push them to you.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 6, 2016)

Whats the purpose to come on a thread _written by someone else _and just say as much negative shit as possible? If you don't agree thats fine, why waste time with it then? Only inadequate people need to do that sort of shit.


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Whats the purpose to come on a thread _written by someone else _and just say as much negative shit as possible? If you don't agree thats fine, why waste time with it then? Only inadequate people need to do that sort of shit.


And you are a hypocrite for not following your own standards.


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Do you plan on starting a lighting company too? Why would I need to check sources? PPFD is PPF/A. When you're buying a lamp, you're buying PPF. When you buy a tent, you're buying A.


(BTW thats not me in the video thats me making fun of that guy as a continuation of this thread. )
https://www.rollitup.org/t/so-is-this-guy-for-real.919572/#post-12918689


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 6, 2016)

Im a hypocrite, ok. Denial is very evident


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 6, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> This is vastly inaccurate. I suggest checking your sources. on PPFD.. not PAR


PAR is funny. 
PPfD is the money.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 6, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Then do you see that math being worked out here? You only use PPFD when you compare equal size areas. I thought that was a given.
> 
> 
> CXB3590DB36V4000K 16 COBS @1.4A ON 1.813 PROFILE HEATSINK
> ...


...and we have a winner!

'Nice rack'


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 6, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> In nature when folks grow outside....yes mile high Denver imho qualifies...as does the S.American Andes or any range that can go a mile above sea lvl or higher. I think a neighbor who is/was a lifelong tibetan claims the altitude allows more of the suns rays ( I took this as more uv exposure at altitude) as opposed to lower lvl gardens. There must be more technology down the line in uv bulb production of like to think. lots to be explored imho.


More UVB, shorter growing season = Indica.

I'm enjoying much greater quantity and quality of terpenes under my COB LED with no UV at all than under any HID I've used. I figured establishing a baseline was prudent in any case, but the difference is already pretty dramatic if people can spot the difference in two clear jars_ from across the room_.


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> PAR is funny.
> PPfD is the money.


PPFD is PAR. (density at least)


----------



## bobdagrowah (Sep 6, 2016)

Let's get back on track, sooooo Rm3 or anyone with an answer how much uvb should I give my girls per day and how many watts of uvb do I need to make a difference, I have 60 watts at the moment??


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 7, 2016)

ikr.


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 7, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> PPFD is PAR. (density at least)


Yes and no. It is but for a fiven sq area. PPFD is PPF/PAR Taken from around 9 points, added together and then divided by the number of points aka an average. It tells you where the light hits in the area you have.


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 7, 2016)

bobdagrowah said:


> Let's get back on track, sooooo Rm3 or anyone with an answer how much uvb should I give my girls per day and how many watts of uvb do I need to make a difference, I have 60 watts at the moment??


That was answered on page 2 or 3 I believe it's around 54W for no more than 15 mins per hour furring flower only.


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 7, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Yes and no. It is but for a fiven sq area. PPFD is PPF/PAR Taken from around 9 points, added together and then divided by the number of points aka an average. It tells you where the light hits in the area you have.


were talking about a huge nuclear reaction in space that sends spectrums of light that is essential for plants to flourish yes? well sans xrays....those would be bad


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 7, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> were talking about a huge nuclear reaction in space that sends spectrums of light that is essential for plants to flourish yes? well sans xrays....those would be bad


Good thing we have the ozone layer huh?


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

bobdagrowah said:


> Let's get back on track, sooooo Rm3 or anyone with an answer how much uvb should I give my girls per day and how many watts of uvb do I need to make a difference, I have 60 watts at the moment??


Depends on what bulbs you're rockin ?


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Church, Church, Church, you simply do not have a clue brother. I will give ya big kudos with the math, but plants don't understand math and you even seem to know your way around nutes, much respect for good info I have seen you post. But you do not know light like I know light, you have not done the experiments I have done. And I have not once, not ever conned any one. The folks that I've taught are all growing better herb, ya just simply can not fuck with the Grandpa weed, but let's get back to lights ,,,,,,

Back in 2012 I ordered this light, now to share the link I had to use the wayback machine because the model I have has been replaced and this is cool, I paid $249 (my work gets a discount as we are an MCM dealer) for this 36 X 1 watt led light rated at 50 watts (total)

https://web.archive.org/web/20120802163807/http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/STELLAR-LABS-555-12635-/555-12635

Today its replacement product is a 36 X 3 watt led for $75 rated at 118 watts (total)

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/LEDJ-LEDJ251-/555-27025

The cool part is how much the price has dropped in just 4 years 

But wait, it was a stage light not a grow light, (I play guitar) and the only info on spectrum was it was 5500K, no info on what brand leds were used, no info on what color bands they were in and I hard mounted it to my basement rafters, *5 feet above the canopy* and grew this plant *WITH 36 NO NAME ONE WATT LEDS *

Just imagine what I could do with 240 3 watt (600 actual watts) leds 

Now the only reason that my garden wasn't covered by that light was cost as I figured to properly cover my space would take 5 or 6 of em. It was in fact right after this experiment I ordered my first T5 fixture ($130)

I love ya Church but you simply do not know what you are talkin about and when I get that light (and I will) I'll show you 
.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Absolutely fascinating stuff here!
> 
> I've been told and have read in several places that 320nm UVB is the most effective for resin production. Is there anything in the study that might shed light on why this is?


missed this (sorry) I've read similar things but as yet have found nothing that says why ?


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Church, Church, Church, you simply do not have a clue brother. I will give ya big kudos with the math, but plants don't understand math and you even seem to know your way around nutes, much respect for good info I have seen you post. But you do not know light like I know light, you have not done the experiments I have done. And I have not once, not ever conned any one. The folks that I've taught are all growing better herb, ya just simply can not fuck with the Grandpa weed, but let's get back to lights ,,,,,,
> 
> Back in 2012 I ordered this light, now to share the link I had to use the wayback machine because the model I have has been replaced and this is cool, I paid $249 (my work gets a discount as we are an MCM dealer) for this 36 X 1 watt led light rated at 50 watts (total)
> 
> ...


What's your PPFD for you're area? If you like the light that's cool, but I would stay away from anything under the citi 1212 and they are $12 each so that's a good starter chip if you're worried about spending too much. The 1-5W diodes are not worth their weight in efficiency.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> No but when a DE Gavida PRO 1000W puts out 600PPFD (ish) in a 4x4 at 24in... and something puts out a higher PPFD for the same area with less Watts... that means it has a higher output of par light... Not the PPF... Wattage doesnt effect output because you can get the same for around 500-600W. PPF is one spot that you measure PPFD is the whole area averaged out.


Just had a friend do a side by side Gravita vs T5 and guess what the T5 side won 
.


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> missed this (sorry) I've read similar things but as yet have found nothing that says why ?


It's a defense responce ive read it many places I was just never sure on the dosage of the UVB. The goal is to make the plan protect it self(it does that by making crystals THC). It's all in the articles on page 3. But I'm just not sure until I see the results in my garden.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> What's your PPFD for you're area? If you like the light that's cool, but I would stay away from anything under the citi 1212 and they are $12 each so that's a good starter chip if you're worried about spending too much. The 1-5W diodes are not worth their weight in efficiency.


Could honestly care less, I grow via plant response,


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Just had a friend do a side by side Gravita vs T5 and guess what the T5 side won
> .
> View attachment 3774977


That doesn't surprise me in the least since a Gaveda puts out around 640PPFD in a 4x4 at 24" or so... It would make sense that a more even canopy would win out... And that's not hard to achieve. I'm planing on doing a side by side by side with HPS, DE HPS, and COBs... But I already know what will win and it's really easy to show.. I get my par meter today


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Could honestly care less, I grow via plant response,


That's good, but it's when you get down to it efficiency is what can get you to 4lb a light... Isn't that right @ttystikk


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> That's good, but it's when you get down to it efficiency is what can get you to 4lb a light... Isn't that right @ttystikk


Funny you would ask tty, as we have sat on his porch smokin the grandpa weed and talked about the 3 watt leds


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Funny you would ask tty, as we have sat on his porch smokin the grandpa weed and talked about the 3 watt leds


He's a reCOBed man now lol. All I'm saying is that a 3-5W LED is less efficient than a standard HPS.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> He's a reCOBed man now lol. All I'm saying is that a 3-5W LED is less efficient than a standard HPS.


Ya simply can not grow the grandpa weed with an HPS light, twas HPS that fucked up the grandpa weed and like I said plants don't understand math and they don't care about efficiency. Ask tty if I have not said that once the COB guys get an actual clue it will be Katie bar the door ? go ahead ask him


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Ya simply can not grow the grandpa weed with an HPS light, twas HPS that fucked up the grandpa weed and like I said plants don't understand math and they don't care about efficiency. Ask tty if I have not said that once the COB guys get an actual clue it will be Katie bar the door ? go ahead ask him


Oh, yeah-


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Ya simply can not grow the grandpa weed with an HPS light, twas HPS that fucked up the grandpa weed and like I said plants don't understand math and they don't care about efficiency. Ask tty if I have not said that once the COB guys get an actual clue it will be Katie bar the door ? go ahead ask him


HPS fucked up the grandpa herbs? Any hard data?


----------



## a mongo frog (Sep 7, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> HPS fucked up the grandpa herbs? Any hard data?


Dude seriously? You think with all the kind of talk you've been seeing the last few pages your going to get any hard data? Im trying to still figure out what is "grandpa weed".


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 7, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Dude seriously? You think with all the kind of talk you've been seeing the last few pages your going to get any hard data? Im trying to still figure out what is "grandpa weed".


Grandpa weed is weed from an era before everything got watered down with indica genetics. I have smoked it.

It will give you visuals and trip.


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 7, 2016)

huh, I should go tell the 74 yr old Jamaican that uses old-school lines.......see If he can shed light....hopefully he won't laugh at me.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> huh, I should go tell the 74 yr old Jamaican that uses old-school lines.......see If he can shed light....hopefully he won't laugh at me.


If you're damn lucky, he'll hand you a joint and invite you to see for yourself.

Booze is booze and nicotine is nicotine, no matter the delivery system- but as we all know, cannabis IS different from strain to strain and under different lighting, etc. 

@RM3 is just trying to get a particular combination of factors to get the desired results. 

It's not hard to figure out, really.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 7, 2016)

It is in reference to how people say the weed is stronger now. It is not, maybe more thc but that is only part of the picture. I even prefer the weed from the 80's and 90's than what out now.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> It is in reference to how people say the weed is stronger now. It is not, maybe more thc but that is only part of the picture. I even prefer the wed from the 80's and 90's than what out now.


You should come out to Colorado for a visit. We'd love to have you!


----------



## Uberknot (Sep 7, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> Can you post the source?



https://californialightworks.com/uvb-light-and-thc-potency/

I do find it funny they used stuff from 2009 20011 2013....and say Finally...

Don't forget the warnings....

UVB light is already generated by the mercury found in all HID (i.e. HPS and Metal Halide) light sources, but it’s typically blocked by the bulb’s outer glass jacket. Ordinary glass blocks over 90% of UVB radiation, so UVB levels will naturally be a little higher using open fixtures with no glass lens.

Many growers have been aware of the benefits of UVB and have used supplemental lighting to boost potency. However, be aware, *there is a threshold where the damage to yield caused by high level UVB will exceed any benefits in potency, so caution and careful design protocols MUST be used when attempting to supplement UVB*. It is also VERY important to be EXTREMELY careful using off-the-shelf UVB sources like lizard lights that are not specifically designed for _human_exposure, because while sunlight has quite high levels of UVB, the intensity of the sun prevents people from staring straight at it. UVB is invisible, so your eyes can’t tell you if they are getting too much UVB from a UVB light source in your grow room, and your eyes and skin can be damaged if the levels are too high. So it’s worth repeating: E_xtreme caution must be observed when using secondary UVB supplementation._

LED Grow lights provide a special consideration when it comes to the effects of UVB on Cannabis THC levels. LEDs are extremely frequency specific, and a typical LED grow light with Blue, Red or even White LEDs will generate absolutely NO UVB radiation. While an absence of UVB does not appear to eliminate THC production, it is now proven that it will reduce the THC levels below those grown under sources with adequate UVB levels.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You should come out to Colorado for a visit. We'd love to have you!


I want to. I will.

I got a lot on my plate right now and a family member about to die any time with stage 4 lung cancer. 


I have been making and giving him very strong edibles. Even with the dementia, he smiles and ask if I have any of those chocolates he likes.

It came out in the wash the other day and someone threatened the law on me for doing it. The hospice nurse said they knew from some blood work. The nurse stood up for me and said it was the best medicine he could have, just illegal here.

Everyone is on board now.

I will try for a trip after the first of the year.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> HPS fucked up the grandpa herbs? Any hard data?


No, of course not. But one merely needs to look at the timeline to see it.


a mongo frog said:


> Dude seriously? You think with all the kind of talk you've been seeing the last few pages your going to get any hard data? Im trying to still figure out what is "grandpa weed".


No, there is no hard data

and Grandpa weed includes Columbian Gold, Panama Red, Acapulco Gold, Classic Sativa highs that were euphoric, energetic, soaring, trippy, with
No ceiling, more ya smoked the higher ya got
Had legs, high lasted for hours
Zero tolerance issues, same amount smoked was always the same high no matter how much ya smoked
Zero couch lock, only way ya went down was if ya smoked too much

There are still many that remember, we're not all dead yet and you should see the smile on an old timers face when they smoke my weed ,,,,,,,,,,, it's priceless


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 7, 2016)

ok fair enough.......what the he'll was Hendrix smoking that he so affectionately called purple haze? Is it a landrace sativa?


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> ok fair enough.......what the he'll was Hendrix smoking that he so affectionately called purple haze? Is it a landrace sativa?


It was a Land Race cross of Sativa's and yeppers it was grandpa weed


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 7, 2016)

I've seen sunshine in a bag from Colombia.....but I was really young. I only remember they were called lids. had the bag filled and the top flap folded over the top....25 dollah


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 7, 2016)

I haven't done a controlled experiment and my evidence is only opinion. 

These are in 15 inch wide pots that hold five gallons. 432 watt t5. I could kill it under hid or a serious cob setup. The two on the right are about 36 inches.
  
It may very well be placebo that I think its better. Does that matter though, as long as its better?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> No, of course not. But one merely needs to look at the timeline to see it.
> 
> No, there is no hard data
> 
> ...


^ Thats the kinda shit I make edibles with.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

The pics are my Road to Neverland, bout 60% amber in week 7 and here was my first smoke report,,,,,,,,,,

"Stage 3 success, the Road to Neverland has the two desired traits I was looking for 

Yeppers, I couldn't wait, I took a small popcorn tester last night and put it in a one hitter and I was absolutely stoked. Came on hard in the first 20 minutes then slowly creeped taking a bit over an hour to peak. It was still goin strong at 3 hours when I took a bong rip of Holy Fuck and then I was simply high as fuck.

It has the complexity and open airways of CTF with a tad less CBD numbing, the 2 traits I was after are whole head and salivate as opposed to cotton mouth, there is also less desire for munchies. It enhances all senses, audio is like 3d surround from just 2 speakers, colors are deep & vibrant, taste is OMG intense. It is euphoric & energetic, my feet did not stop shakin the whole 3 hours. If you focus, your mind fires on all cylinders, if you drift it seems as if you could literally go anywhere in the universe."

Note: The strain I smoked with Afghan King was Holy Fuck 
.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> The pics are my Road to Neverland, bout 60% amber in week 7 and here was my first smoke report,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> "Stage 3 success, the Road to Neverland has the two desired traits I was looking for
> 
> ...


Thats a fukn awesome photo with the seed popping out


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

Sounds like an unreal high. Awesome


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Thats a fukn awesome photo with the seed popping out


If ya like that one, here is one of my CTF 
.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Sounds like an unreal high. Awesome


It's what I breed for  been workin on Neverland for 9 years, bout to pop the Stage 4 beans


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> If ya like that one, here is one of my CTF
> .
> View attachment 3775038


I recognize that #. Its one of the ones I was asking about before.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I recognize that #. Its one of the ones I was asking about before.


Tis currently my most popular strain, here is a pic of it growin outside somewhere in Michigan 
.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If you're damn lucky, he'll hand you a joint and invite you to see for yourself.
> 
> Booze is booze and nicotine is nicotine, no matter the delivery system- but as we all know, cannabis IS different from strain to strain and under different lighting, etc.
> 
> ...


Yeppers, I'm not lyin nor am I tryin to con anyone, come on down smoke a J with me, see for yourselves. Others have and truth is I love showin the young-uns the difference


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Tis currently my most popular strain, here is a pic of it growin outside somewhere in Michigan
> .
> View attachment 3775040


Looks nice. I remember there being 3 of them I had my eyes on. Will have to check back and see what the other 2 were.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

69, 27, & 357 those are the ones


----------



## Lacedwitgame (Sep 7, 2016)

Everything evolves with time......everything......


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> 69, 27, & 357 those are the ones


You have good taste


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Lacedwitgame said:


> Everything evolves with time......everything......


and your point?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

Old school head taste


----------



## Friction1957 (Sep 7, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> I've seen sunshine in a bag from Colombia.....but I was really young. I only remember they were called lids. had the bag filled and the top flap folded over the top....25 dollah


$15 4 finger lids. You bought it in $5 nickles, $10 dimes and $15 lids. You measured with your fingers to make sure you were getting a good bag. Had your favorite Frisbee to roll in because every bag had seeds. And nearly all your clothes had little seed sized burn holes from when you missed one and it popped while you were smoking.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Friction1957 said:


> $15 4 finger lids. You bought it in $5 nickles, $10 dimes and $15 lids. You measured with your fingers to make sure you were getting a good bag. Had your favorite Frisbee to roll in because every bag had seeds. And nearly all your clothes had little seed sized burn holes from when you missed one and it popped while you were smoking.



.


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Sep 7, 2016)

Durban Poison is my favorite...


----------



## Friction1957 (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> .
> View attachment 3775116


lolz, EXACTLY and it was always in a fold over sandwich bag. I'd go as high as $ 20 for a lid if it was sens or thi stick.

EDIT: and back then $5 bucks was a full tank of gas.


----------



## shorelineOG (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> .
> View attachment 3775116


Wanted to ask you about trich size. I have grown out lots of Mexican and smoked a lot that was sun grown. The really good stuff has tiny trichomes, but is sticky and produces lots of resin on the paper. No bag appeal but smoke a joint and the paper will be clear then black with resin. Then the modern stuff has tons of large trichomes but not that potent and doesn't resin up the paper. Wanted your observations on why small trichs are more potent, tacky/sticky and more resin producing.


----------



## Fastslappy (Sep 7, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Durban Poison is my favorite...


 i got a IBL Durban in the g/h right now it's a monster


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Wanted to ask you about trich size. I have grown out lots of Mexican and smoked a lot that was sun grown. The really good stuff has tiny trichomes, but is sticky and produces lots of resin on the paper. No bag appeal but smoke a joint and the paper will be clear then black with resin. Then the modern stuff has tons of large trichomes but not that potent and doesn't resin up the paper. Wanted your observations on why small trichs are more potent, tacky/sticky and more resin producing.


You mean like this ? Had to go grab a few roaches from my ashtray, put the papers there to show I use white bugler papers  
Gotta say tis a Sativa characteristic to have the smaller trics but tis the UV that makes the resin, I also get more resin when I cure, we like to call it the Ooze 
.


----------



## Fastslappy (Sep 7, 2016)

I remember buyin lids of colombo gold knockout smell blistering blow yer mind high


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Durban Poison is my favorite...





Fastslappy said:


> i got a IBL Durban in the g/h right now it's a monster


Need to try my Durban Thunder grew the Durban cut that has floated around Colorado since the 90's and crossed it to my CTF


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

My first plants were Durban. And they were actually pretty nice fkn plants with a very nice high. Whatever marijuana-seeds.nl were selling 10-12 years back was the shit. All the Durban from Sensi and Dutch Passion was shit last time I checked them


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> My first plants were Durban. And they were actually pretty nice fkn plants with a very nice high. Whatever marijuana-seeds.nl were selling 10-12 years back was the shit. All the Durban from Sensi and Dutch Passion was shit last time I checked them


The Durban I grew is pictured in my are they done thread (sig link) pretty sure it's towards the bottom of the 1st page? if ya go look you'll see I brought out the amber in it as well


----------



## shorelineOG (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> You mean like this ? Had to go grab a few roaches from my ashtray, put the papers there to show I use white bugler papers
> Gotta say tis a Sativa characteristic to have the smaller trics but tis the UV that makes the resin, I also get more resin when I cure, we like to call it the Ooze
> .
> View attachment 3775131


Kind of like that but the resin stays wet. The paper would turn see through and you would have like liquid tar shit on your fingers. I know it is genetic because it is all sun grown in Mexico but only certain " strains" had this trait. Most mexican looks like CBD strains, hairy schwag. The good stuff is dense buds with not many pistils, very tall plants. They call it lime green, it has the smallest round black seeds. It is the color of a tennis ball, and I think they breed for height and that light green color. Most mexicans will ask if its dark or light green, knowing the light green is a sign of potency. Also the fluffy brown stuff will dry out, but the lime green will never feel dry because it stays sticky like syrup. I got a feel for it after seeing so much mexican, but I will say that a short sativa will never be as potent as the tall Christmas tree shaped sativas.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> The Durban I grew is pictured in my are they done thread (sig link) pretty sure it's towards the bottom of the 1st page? if ya go look you'll see I brought out the amber in it as well


Yeah the ones I finished were big and solid like that as well. They look nice eh


----------



## Fastslappy (Sep 7, 2016)

my DP is soo big it's hard get a picture as she's taken the whole end of the g/h , i pull colas of the ceiling daily 
she just started flowering soo Xmas Durban Poison 
got my seed from Joe P he has a catalog of heirloom genes pre-Nixon shit


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Kind of like that but the resin stays wet. The paper would turn see through and you would have like liquid tar shit on your fingers. I know it is genetic because it is all sun grown in Mexico but only certain " strains" had this trait. Most mexican looks like CBD strains, hairy schwag. The good stuff is dense buds with not many pistils, very tall plants. They call it lime green, it has the smallest round black seeds. It is the color of a tennis ball, and I think they breed for height and that light green color. Most mexicans will ask if its dark or light green, knowing the light green is a sign of potency. Also the fluffy brown stuff will dry out, but the lime green will never feel dry because it stays sticky like syrup. I got a feel for it after seeing so much mexican, but I will say that a short sativa will never be as potent as the tall Christmas tree shaped sativas.


When you say short sativa I think you are referring to hybrids because Ive never seen any sativas that arent tall and Christmas tree shaped but look where I am as well....


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I want to. I will.
> 
> I got a lot on my plate right now and a family member about to die any time with stage 4 lung cancer.
> 
> ...


Good on you for taking care of your family, legal or not. 

Good on the hospice nurse for understanding. 

Fuck the asshole who caused the drama! 
Threatening to call the law? Over helping comfort someone in the worst stage of what's widely known to be an excruciatingly painful form of cancer? Fucking lowlife.

You'll be welcome anytime you can get away, my friend.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Uberknot said:


> https://californialightworks.com/uvb-light-and-thc-potency/
> 
> I do find it funny they used stuff from 2009 20011 2013....and say Finally...
> 
> ...


Good info and the warnings are real; macular degeneration is no joke and it's incurable.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Kind of like that but the resin stays wet. The paper would turn see through and you would have like liquid tar shit on your fingers. I know it is genetic because it is all sun grown in Mexico but only certain " strains" had this trait. Most mexican looks like CBD strains, hairy schwag. The good stuff is dense buds with not many pistils, very tall plants. They call it lime green, it has the smallest round black seeds. It is the color of a tennis ball, and I think they breed for height and that light green color. Most mexicans will ask if its dark or light green, knowing the light green is a sign of potency. Also the fluffy brown stuff will dry out, but the lime green will never feel dry because it stays sticky like syrup. I got a feel for it after seeing so much mexican, but I will say that a short sativa will never be as potent as the tall Christmas tree shaped sativas.


Well I got a few of those seeds in my last Mex shipment just need to grow em out 
.


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Need to try my Durban Thunder grew the Durban cut that has floated around Colorado since the 90's and crossed it to my CTF


I'd love to. If I'm ever in CO.....I'm in Michigan now.


----------



## shorelineOG (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Well I got a few of those seeds in my last Mex shipment just need to grow em out
> .
> View attachment 3775153


I see some of the little black ones in there, about half the size of the tiger striped ones,those should be the lime green plants.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> I'd love to. If I'm ever in CO.....I'm in Michigan now.


There are growers in Michigan with my gear, just need to meet up with em  

I think @DCobeen has the Durban Thunder


----------



## RM3 (Sep 7, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> I see some of the little black ones in there, about half the size of the tiger striped ones,those should be the lime green plants.


Yeppers, I get seeds from my connect in Southern Mexico every year  

I used one last year to make my Strain Kool Aid


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> There are growers in Michigan with my gear, just need to meet up with em
> 
> I think @DCobeen has the Durban Thunder


Yes!!!!


----------



## Fastslappy (Sep 7, 2016)

Durban Poison IBL she's a monster
i gotta male as well , i just put a branch of balls up on AL foil for sum pollen chuckin 
gotta hit Romulian , Romulian x AFI OG , LSD , Azure Haze , and Alien Tarantula
just checked my Romulian & Rom x Afi are done 5 -10% amber @8 weeks flower
full grown mothers when put out in summer


----------



## Fastslappy (Sep 7, 2016)

55 gal bbl buried 1/2 way in to the ground on that DP tree amended coco ,organic tea


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 7, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Kind of like that but the resin stays wet. The paper would turn see through and you would have like liquid tar shit on your fingers. I know it is genetic because it is all sun grown in Mexico but only certain " strains" had this trait. Most mexican looks like CBD strains, hairy schwag. The good stuff is dense buds with not many pistils, very tall plants. They call it lime green, it has the smallest round black seeds. It is the color of a tennis ball, and I think they breed for height and that light green color. Most mexicans will ask if its dark or light green, knowing the light green is a sign of potency. Also the fluffy brown stuff will dry out, but the lime green will never feel dry because it stays sticky like syrup. I got a feel for it after seeing so much mexican, but I will say that a short sativa will never be as potent as the tall Christmas tree shaped sativas.


I remember that stuff. Like the color of a mountain dew bottle. Pearl black seeds.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Good on you for taking care of your family, legal or not.
> 
> Good on the hospice nurse for understanding.
> 
> ...


Legal doesn't always mean right and illegal not always wrong.

Thank you. Any family stuff to do up there?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Sounds like an unreal high. Awesome


Oh, it's real all right. Aptly named, too!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Legal doesn't always mean right and illegal not always wrong.
> 
> Thank you. Any family stuff to do up there?


TONS of fun family stuff to do all over Colorado, brother! Bring them all, especially those who like craft beers lol


----------



## DCobeen (Sep 7, 2016)

@Tyleb173rd Im on west side where are you? I think I got Durban Thunder but old partner might have them and if the case I will get more.


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Sep 7, 2016)

DCobeen said:


> @Tyleb173rd Im on west side where are you? I think I got Durban Thunder but old partner might have them and if the case I will get more.


PM sent....


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 7, 2016)

MeGaKiLlErMaN said:


> PPFD is PPF/PAR.


No it isn't.... PPFD = PPF/A.

PAR just means photosynthetic active response. It means "light between 400-700nm." and it can be measured in many ways. (W, umol/s) The P in PPFD stands for photosynthetic. PPF is a measure of PAR. PPFD is PPF/A. Seriously, just stop.


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 7, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Church, Church, Church, you simply do not have a clue brother. I will give ya big kudos with the math, but plants don't understand math and you even seem to know your way around nutes, much respect for good info I have seen you post. But you do not know light like I know light, you have not done the experiments I have done. And I have not once, not ever conned any one. The folks that I've taught are all growing better herb, ya just simply can not fuck with the Grandpa weed, but let's get back to lights ,,,,,,
> 
> Back in 2012 I ordered this light, now to share the link I had to use the wayback machine because the model I have has been replaced and this is cool, I paid $249 (my work gets a discount as we are an MCM dealer) for this 36 X 1 watt led light rated at 50 watts (total)
> 
> ...


You're nothing but a con artist and a beggar. (trying to raise funds to screw people over with 3W epiled.. shame on you)


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

^ and you buddy @churchhaze are nothing but a fucking troll


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

A troll which is now on ignore.


----------



## Friction1957 (Sep 7, 2016)

@churchhaze what's your problem dude?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

He's a fucking troll. Thats his problem


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Sep 7, 2016)

Dude....I'm an amateur at best but I spent a few hours reading over @RM3 threads. At his level of experience, to do the crazy things he does, must have merit. How many fellas with his growing knowledge are using T5s to FLOWER?????? Seriously????? There's something to learn there no matter what experience you have. Also...I'm a fan of the type of meds he likes.......


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

Hopefully you know I wasnt talking to you @Tyleb173rd


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> A troll which is now on ignore.


He's been on my ignore list for a long time now.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

The thing is, most of the people I have noticed talking shit or bucking what he does are like 12 fucking years old. Most still living at mommy's house coming on here talking shit behind a computer screen. Pisses in my cheerios


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Mexican mountain grown sativa... long growing season, plenty of UVB, carefully bred strains. 

No, it isn't a coincidence that T5 lighting with plenty of UVB and low RH along with carefully selected and bred for traits would come up with similar results. 

Who gives a shit if T5 isn't the most efficient lighting available if it's affordable and meets the specs? 

Quibbling over details is the sure sign of an amateur, and @churchhaze meets the spec.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Dude....I'm an amateur at best but I spent a few hours reading over @RM3 threads. At his level of experience, to do the crazy things he does, must have merit. How many fellas with his growing knowledge are using T5s to FLOWER?????? Seriously????? There's something to learn there no matter what experience you have. Also...I'm a fan of the type of meds he likes.......


Whether you agree with or wish to follow his methods or not, there's plenty to learn there.


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Hopefully you know I wasnt talking to you @Tyleb173rd


I know broham....


----------



## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> He's been on my ignore list for a long time now.


I was thinking that it was just me... TG.


----------



## a mongo frog (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> He's been on my ignore list for a long time now.


Seriously? That dude has super knowledge. Always good to read what he has to say.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Seriously? That dude has super knowledge. Always good to read what he has to say.


That may be, but his personal style is so abrasive it's not worth putting up with it for whatever nuggets there may be.

Nothing he says is unique, someone else has the same knowledge- without the attitude problem.

It appears that I'm far from alone in my assessment.

My grandfather had the same problem; very smart, but such an asshole no one cared to listen. I learned that lesson long ago... he gives every indication of being unwilling to learn. 

His loss, not ours.


----------



## a mongo frog (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That may be, but his personal style is so abrasive it's not worth putting up with it for whatever nuggets there may be.
> 
> Nothing he says is unique, someone else has the same knowledge- without the attitude problem.
> 
> It appears that I'm far from alone in my assessment.


Well i would just recommend no one putting that dude on ignore is all.


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 7, 2016)

I'm sorry that calling out a con artist is abrasive. Sometimes I let my ethical concerns get the better of me.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Well i would just recommend no one putting that dude on ignore is all.


I'd be more than willing to listen if he could chill the fuck out. Several years ago, he seemed calmer. Now he's just shrill and rude.


----------



## Friction1957 (Sep 7, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I'm sorry that calling out a con artist is abrasive. Sometimes I let my ethical concerns get the better of me.


So I'm a first time never grown before noob. Didn't know Dyna-Gro from General Hydroponics, I was super confused when I read FFOF.. Only time I'd ever even seen a grow was after I started this one on May 13th this year and it was @Dr.D81 garden . (it was BEAUTIFUL by the way)

Anyway, this man that you choose to call "con artist" has helped me learn more in a few months than in the year I spent on the innerwebs reading crapola that trolls like you post. Here is my garden today, 20 strains and nearly 50 plants. All because of the Rids generous and giving nature. Not to mention the help of people like @ttystikk and @DCobeen and other folks that follow his teachings on how to grow and, maybe even more importantly, how to be generous in spirit with their knowledge and time. It's easy to see why so many people have you on ignore. 

Anyway, here's what a first time 100% noob grow can look like if you listen to Rid. Some of that is even his strains.


Not a con artist, the man knows his shit and he can teach it to even the greenest rookie IF they are only willing to listen. 

You are an offensive, rude, poorly raised jerk with no manners or honor. Climb back into your Mom's basement and let the grownups talk.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Hey, wait a minute- aren't con artists in it for the bux? 

If @RM3 is a con man, he sure is taking his time making the kill! 

BWAHAHAHA!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Friction1957 said:


> So I'm a first time never grown before noob. Didn't know Dyna-Gro from General Hydroponics, I was super confused when I read FFOF.. Only time I'd ever even seen a grow was after I started this one on May 13th this year and it was @Dr.D81 garden . (it was BEAUTIFUL by the way)
> 
> Anyway, this man that you choose to call "con artist" has helped me learn more in a few months than in the year I spent on the innerwebs reading crapola that trolls like you post. Here is my garden today, 20 strains and nearly 50 plants. All because of the Rids generous and giving nature. Not to mention the help of people like @ttystikk and @DCobeen and other folks that follow his teachings on how to grow and, maybe even more importantly, how to be generous in spirit with their knowledge and time. It's easy to see why so many people have you on ignore.
> 
> ...


NICE WORK. 

Following directions is a valuable skill, don't ever let anyone tell you differently. 

The best cook I've ever met was that good specifically because she could follow a recipe with precision and consistency. 

It's a skill I admire because I don't come by it easily; I'm much more a by the seat of my pants kind of practitioner. Very creative, but with the occasional spectacular disaster thrown in, lol


----------



## Friction1957 (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey, wait a minute- aren't con artists in it for the bux?
> 
> If @RM3 is a con man, he sure is taking his time making the kill!
> 
> BWAHAHAHA!


IKR, I was laughing to myself that if Rid was a con artist, he must be a damn bad one.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Well i would just recommend no one putting that dude on ignore is all.


If you want to listen to his shit thats fine, I choose not to


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Hey, wait a minute- aren't con artists in it for the bux?
> 
> If @RM3 is a con man, he sure is taking his time making the kill!
> LMAO


----------



## a mongo frog (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> If you want to listen to his shit thats fine, I choose not to


All i meant was he has some super sound knowledge. A lot of it on nutrients and plant foods, also a lot of it on lighting. Trust me i know what you guys sort of mean. Him and i have went a few rounds on here, but id never put him on ignore and miss what he has to say. That would be like putting ttystikk on ignore because all he talks about is how great his self is. But the fact of the matter ttystikk knows a lot of shit, so why would i put him on ignore and miss something he has to say. Id never do that.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

Ttystikk is NOT going on others people threads calling them a con man....difference my friend, BIG fucking difference!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

Now I may be a bit brash, but my take is he is a fucking idiot


----------



## Dr.D81 (Sep 7, 2016)

So guys i have grown now off and on for over 19 years i have grown Mexican brick weed seeds with miracle grow, grown coco, hydro, organic, notill, vert, flat, outdoor, gorilla, greenhouse, and even in a fucking speaker with floros. My point is there is a shit ton of ways to do this shit and a lot of FACT people post on here is bull shit. Truth is all these bottles and boosters are a waste of money and can be made at home. Or how about the best weed i have grown comes from making great soil and leaving them the hell alone. And the boiling works guys. From the time i boil till i put my flowers away now takes three weeks and it has walked all over bud from people been in this game for a lot longer than me. Did it at spring BBQ with bud i had just harvested. I don't fallow all his ways but you should appreciate he researchs and experiments. I am running two myself right now one is outdoor hydro plants for a guy. The other is based on something from rid. I am not blacking out my flower and seeing what happens. This is how new intavations happen. What if some ass clown had told people to ignore the dude who decided to squasha bud with a hair straightener ? Answer is we might not have rosin now. His weed was good to by the way and tasted really good also


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

Dr.D81 said:


> So guys i have grown now off and on for over 19 years i have grown Mexican brick weed seeds with miracle grow, grown coco, hydro, organic, notill, vert, flat, outdoor, gorilla, greenhouse, and even in a fucking speaker with floros. My point is there is a shit ton of ways to do this shit and a lot of FACT people post on here is bull shit. Truth is all these bottles and boosters are a waste of money and can be made at home. Or how about the best weed i have grown comes from making great soil and leaving them the hell alone. And the boiling works guys. From the time i boil till i put my flowers away now takes three weeks and it has walked all over bud from people been in this game for a lot longer than me. Did it at spring BBQ with bud i had just harvested. I don't fallow all his ways but you should appreciate he researchs and experiments. Iam running to right now one is outdoor hydro plants for a guy. The other is based on something from rid. I am not blacking out my flower and seeing what happens. This is how new intavations happen. What if some ass clown had told people to ignore the dude who decided to squasha bud with a hair straightene ? Answer is we might not have rosin now. His weed was good to by the way and tasted really good also


There's more than one way to fuck a monkey, I mean grow a plant


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Dr.D81 said:


> So guys i have grown now off and on for over 19 years i have grown Mexican brick weed seeds with miracle grow, grown coco, hydro, organic, notill, vert, flat, outdoor, gorilla, greenhouse, and even in a fucking speaker with floros. My point is there is a shit ton of ways to do this shit and a lot of FACT people post on here is bull shit. Truth is all these bottles and boosters are a waste of money and can be made at home. Or how about the best weed i have grown comes from making great soil and leaving them the hell alone. And the boiling works guys. From the time i boil till i put my flowers away now takes three weeks and it has walked all over bud from people been in this game for a lot longer than me. Did it at spring BBQ with bud i had just harvested. I don't fallow all his ways but you should appreciate he researchs and experiments. I am running two myself right now one is outdoor hydro plants for a guy. The other is based on something from rid. I am not blacking out my flower and seeing what happens. This is how new intavations happen. What if some ass clown had told people to ignore the dude who decided to squasha bud with a hair straightener ? Answer is we might not have rosin now. His weed was good to by the way and tasted really good also


Preach. Been there, done that, got the felony to prove I was there. 

By the way, it was great to chill with you that day at @RM3's place.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> There's more than one way to fuck a monkey, I mean grow a plant


Well, you ARE in Vietnam...

When in Rome? 

Lol


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

The circles we operate in are with global footprint and reach but much smaller than we all think . Fukn healthy circle, very healthy circle


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> The circles we operate in are with global footprint and reach but much smaller than we all think . Fukn healthy circle, very healthy circle


This is indeed profound. The possibilities boggle the mind.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This is indeed profound. The possibilities boggle the mind.


Absolutely. I was just giving this some thought myself


----------



## Rayne (Sep 8, 2016)

After reading most of this thread....Yes, UV supplementation is needed. I will not grow without UV supplementation. In my grows, the plant is exposed to UV A/B from beginning to end.

To grow a plant indoors within an environment remotely close to the outdoor environment UV must be included. Outdoor plants are exposed to UV all day long.


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 8, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Ttystikk is NOT going on others people threads calling them a con man....difference my friend, BIG fucking difference!


Have you ever considered that RM3 actually is a con man? He's trying to get you to donate him money so he can sell you back an LED lamp with epileds. You'd actually be better off with garbage T5 than those led lamps. Again, too stubborn to suggest HPS despite it clearly kicking epiled and T5's ass for less money up front than either. If you're going to go the route of LED, at least get something good. RM3 knows full well he's making a shitty product. It's funny how his ad says that most led lamps look like they were designed by kindergartners yet it's clear to me that his competition will wipe the floor with him. The only thing his company has going on for him is a cartoon logo with a leprechaun on it that has a moderately sized cult following that will believe anything they're told.. (it's also kind of funny how he thinks he can take those types of shots at other people's designs while expecting nobody to attack his shitty design. Just wait until people start asking about his light in the LED section and see how receptive the crowd is there. His product will be ripped to shreds.)

Also, let me remind you that this isn't RM3's forum, nor is it his thread. I have just as much right to post in this thread as any of you. (it is in the advanced section after all, not a journal)

@a mongo frog , I disagree with you that ttystick has anything worth listening to and would argue that he is the one who is extremely rude.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 8, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> All i meant was he has some super sound knowledge. A lot of it on nutrients and plant foods, also a lot of it on lighting. Trust me i know what you guys sort of mean. Him and i have went a few rounds on here, but id never put him on ignore and miss what he has to say. That would be like putting ttystikk on ignore because all he talks about is how great his self is. But the fact of the matter ttystikk knows a lot of shit, so why would i put him on ignore and miss something he has to say. Id never do that.


Who cares what he knows? He is an ass.

Constantly following someone around just to start crap. I'm close to adding him to ignore myself.


----------



## BobCajun (Sep 8, 2016)

I found some interesting stuff in the last article linked in the first post of this thread.



> Only the photoperiod will trigger parthenocarpy in flowering female marijuana plants*. The longest photoperiod that will trigger parthenocarpy in unfertilized flowering homozygous*(c) *Indica female marijuana plants is 13 hours, give or take 15 minutes.*
> Out-of-doors, the same effect can be obtained in the month of August at 35 N*, *and because the capitate-stalked glandular trichomes received plenty of UVB during this month at this latitude*, *the harvested resin spheres had fully realized THC*.
> Rating: *euphoria and hallucinations*, *major appetite boost and pain relief*, *deep dreamless sleep*. *These plants seldom grow taller than four feet but potency makes up for the reduced harvest*. *This gene pool is the basis for the "sensimillia" myth and no other gene pool will fit the bill which is why a lot of so-called "sensimillia" has so little THC*.
> 
> ...



How do we know if our plants are heterozygous or homozygous? Damned if I know. From the quote it looks like femmed seeds might be homozygous, but who really knows? I've noticed that with 12/12 my plants never really expand their calyxes as much as I would expect. Maybe I need to hit them with 11/13 for the last 7-10 days, maybe even 9/15 for the last 3-4 days. The last 7-10 days would also be the appropriate time to employ the lizard lights. The combination of reduced light cycle and adding UV might just do the trick. It said that a 10 hour photoperiod causes herms, so you wouldn't want to use the 9/15 until the last few days, when there wouldn't be time for male flowers to form anyway.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 8, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Have you ever considered that RM3 actually is a con man? He's trying to get you to donate him money so he can sell you back an LED lamp with epileds. You'd actually be better off with garbage T5 than those led lamps. Again, too stubborn to suggest HPS despite it clearly kicking epiled and T5's ass for less money up front than either. If you're going to go the route of LED, at least get something good. RM3 knows full well he's making a shitty product. It's funny how his ad says that most led lamps look like they were designed by kindergartners yet it's clear to me that his competition will wipe the floor with him. The only thing his company has going on for him is a cartoon logo with a leprechaun on it that has a moderately sized cult following that will believe anything they're told.. (it's also kind of funny how he thinks he can take those types of shots at other people's designs while expecting nobody to attack his shitty design. Just wait until people start asking about his light in the LED section and see how receptive the crowd is there. His product will be ripped to shreds.)
> 
> Also, let me remind you that this isn't RM3's forum, nor is it his thread. I have just as much right to post in this thread as any of you. (it is in the advanced section after all, not a journal)
> 
> @a mongo frog , I disagree with you that ttystick has anything worth listening to and would argue that he is the one who is extremely rude.


I just love how much you don't get it, how stuck in your mind you seem to be, tis truly entertaining and sad but I still love ya. To think that hundreds of folks just blindly follow me is so laughable. Like I meet em at the door and hand em the Kool Aid 

You should just wait till I get the light and post the grow and see if I'm so wrong ???

Pretty soon every one will have ya on ignore and you'll just be typin to yourself ?

There are actually folks out there that want the better weed, for some reason you don't seem to understand that ? You say you're happy with your weed, why not be happy for others that want something more from theirs ? 

You come across like an aged religious fanatic yelling death to all infidels that don't grow like me, no 72 virgins for you if you don't use HPS and your smash your flouros thread kinda proves it

Just an FYI, though I truly doubt you'd seriously take the time, but I spent many hours researching this light, you see it is designed to penetrate 3 feet of water to grow coral in aquariums (if you read the whole page I posted the link to you would know this) and recommended to be 2 feet above the tank (as shown in the pics) so that's 3 watt leds with 5 feet of penetration and as stated on the "con" page they already exist and are in use on tanks all over with reviews of how well they grow coral. Tis a ironic correlation that I use T5 bulbs designed for the same thing  

And as I shared with you in our recent pm, if ya want true innovation ya needs to look outside the "grow" industry 

At the very least I thank ya for bumpin my thread


----------



## RM3 (Sep 8, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> I found some interesting stuff in the last article linked in the first post of this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


* Genotypes and phenotypes*
Considering the alleles of a gene present in an organism and the physical results, brings us to the terms genotype, phenotype, and trait. An organism's *genotype* is its specific combination of alleles for a given gene. So, for example, in the pea plants above, the possible genotypes for the flower-color gene were red-red, red-white, and white-white. The *phenotype* is the physical manifestation of an organism's allellic combination (genotype). For the pea plants, if the red allele is dominant and the white allele is recessive, only two phenotypes are possible. Both the plants with red-red and red-white genotypes will have the red phenotype, while the plants with the white-white genotype will have the white phenotype. A *trait* is the general aspect of physiology being shown in the phenotype. So, for example, the trait being discussed in this paragraph is the flower-color of the pea plant. The phenotype can be either red or white flower color, depending on the genotype.
Genotype and phenotype can also be demonstrated using the human examples from above. For cystic fibrosis, people with the normal-normal or normal-mutant genotypes have the normal phenotype, while people with the mutant-mutant genotype have the disease phenotype. For Huntington's, people with the normal-normal genotype have the normal phenotype, while people with the normal-mutant or mutant-mutant phenotypes develop the diseased phenotype.

Often, organisms will carry a dominant and a recessive allele of a gene. These organisms can be referred to as *carriers* of the recessive allele. For example, if a pea plant has a red flower-color allele and a white flower-color allele, then it is a carrier of the recessive white flower-color allele. In humans, people who have both a normal and a mutant allele for the CF gene are carriers for the mutant recessive CF allele. While carriers have the dominant/recessive genotype for a given gene, they only show the phenotype caused by the dominant version of that gene.

If someone has the phenotype caused by the "disease" allele of a gene, we say they are affected. People who do not have that phenotype are unaffected. So, for example, in a family of four where the mutant CF gene is present, the terminology would go as follows:

Individual Genotype Phenotype
---------- --------- ---------
mother normal-mutant Unaffected (carrier)
father normal-mutant Unaffected (carrier)
child 1 normal-normal Unaffected
child 2 mutant-mutant Affected

Remember that the key is that affected people show the disease phenotype. The term affected does not dictate whether a person has one or two bad alleles. The number of bad alleles needed for the diseased phenotype to manefest, depends on the dominant-recessive relationship of the alleles for the gene in question.
Organisms can be homozygous or heterozygous for a gene. *Homozygous* means that the organism has two copies of the same allele for a gene. An organism can be homozygous dominant, if it carries two copies of the same dominant allele, or homozygous recessive, if it carries two copies of the same recessive allele. *Heterozygous* means that an organism has two different alleles of a gene. For example, pea plants can have red flowers and either be homozygous dominant (red-red), or heterozygous (red-white). If they have white flowers, then they are homozygous recessive (white-white). Carriers are always heterozygous. People with CF are homozygous recessive. Since Huntington's disease is autosomal dominant, people with the disease can be either homozygous dominant or heterozygous.


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## BobCajun (Sep 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> * Genotypes and phenotypes*
> Considering the alleles of a gene present in an organism and the physical results, brings us to the terms genotype, phenotype, and trait. An organism's *genotype* is its specific combination of alleles for a given gene. So, for example, in the pea plants above, the possible genotypes for the flower-color gene were red-red, red-white, and white-white. The *phenotype* is the physical manifestation of an organism's allellic combination (genotype). For the pea plants, if the red allele is dominant and the white allele is recessive, only two phenotypes are possible. Both the plants with red-red and red-white genotypes will have the red phenotype, while the plants with the white-white genotype will have the white phenotype. A *trait* is the general aspect of physiology being shown in the phenotype. So, for example, the trait being discussed in this paragraph is the flower-color of the pea plant. The phenotype can be either red or white flower color, depending on the genotype.
> Genotype and phenotype can also be demonstrated using the human examples from above. For cystic fibrosis, people with the normal-normal or normal-mutant genotypes have the normal phenotype, while people with the mutant-mutant genotype have the disease phenotype. For Huntington's, people with the normal-normal genotype have the normal phenotype, while people with the normal-mutant or mutant-mutant phenotypes develop the diseased phenotype.
> 
> ...


I only use fem seeds so there's a good chance they can ripen with up to 13 hours light, assuming the parent had that trait. Guess the only way to find out what light cycle any particular pheno will require to produce calyx fattening is to try shorter cycles than 12/12 and see if there's an improvement. I'll try the shortening cycle I mentioned earlier and see what happens.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 8, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> I only use fem seeds so there's a good chance they can ripen with up to 13 hours light, assuming the parent had that trait. Guess the only way to find out what light cycle any particular pheno will require to produce calyx fattening is to try shorter cycles than 12/12 and see if there's an improvement. I'll try the shortening cycle I mentioned earlier and see what happens.


I disagree with what that article stated. I see a lot of genetics flowering at 14/10 or even 14.5/9.5. Some will flower with more light.

Sativas tend to need less. Around 12/12 or less.

I do it myself indoors. I lower the light by a little each week. 30 min or so. All except the purest sativas flower around 14/10.


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 8, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Have you ever considered that RM3 actually is a con man? He's trying to get you to donate him money so he can sell you back an LED lamp with epileds. You'd actually be better off with garbage T5 than those led lamps. Again, too stubborn to suggest HPS despite it clearly kicking epiled and T5's ass for less money up front than either. If you're going to go the route of LED, at least get something good. RM3 knows full well he's making a shitty product. It's funny how his ad says that most led lamps look like they were designed by kindergartners yet it's clear to me that his competition will wipe the floor with him. The only thing his company has going on for him is a cartoon logo with a leprechaun on it that has a moderately sized cult following that will believe anything they're told.. (it's also kind of funny how he thinks he can take those types of shots at other people's designs while expecting nobody to attack his shitty design. Just wait until people start asking about his light in the LED section and see how receptive the crowd is there. His product will be ripped to shreds.)
> 
> Also, let me remind you that this isn't RM3's forum, nor is it his thread. I have just as much right to post in this thread as any of you. (it is in the advanced section after all, not a journal)
> 
> @a mongo frog , I disagree with you that ttystick has anything worth listening to and would argue that he is the one who is extremely rude.


Nah he ain't ever asked me to donate money......had mreduck invite me to his website where things were chill.....I just didn't agree that unstressed plants don't stink but in all fairness I digress
1. I was eating 10-12 Percocet 10's a day and morphine 30's for breakthrough pain daily and HONESTLY....it completely fucked my mind and body's health( I was oblivious for 2 yrs dude)
2. Back then I grew SOLELY in 3 x 3 growlab tents and at lights on they ALWAYS reeked....lmao of course they did....theyd been sitting in a sealed tent w no fan on during dark for 13 -12 hours.....so of course that initial first few minutes would reek. 
3. I choose to listen now before I make premisconceptions.


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 8, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> There's more than one way to fuck a monkey, I mean grow a plant


If your into that stuff ..there's a few farms up by Hardwick where the heifers come running for some lovin and Milking. Caught one Mexican letting the calfs sick him off
.....so I know folks are out there who enjoy bovines..


.monkeys???? nah


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 8, 2016)

Nah Just fucking about


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 8, 2016)

don't ask how

light, you see it is designed to penetrate 3 feet of water to grow coral in aquariums (if you read the whole page I posted the link to you would know this)

even bullets from my sks can't penetrate water that well lmao


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 8, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Nah Just fucking about


I know when your serious brah
so checkout the nodes stacks under a 30 dollar 5000k plantmaxx bulb 400 watt mh
 
10 fucken days from seed pop....right into 5 gallons lol I'm a nutball


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> I know when your serious brah
> so checkout the nodes stacks under a 30 dollar 5000k plantmaxx bulb 400 watt mh
> View attachment 3776023
> 10 fucken days from seed pop....right into 5 gallons lol I'm a nutball


10 days from pop huh, motherfucker thats growing fast!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> 10 days plus they got 25 hours of darkness yesterday while I moved them to the " mothership"
> ya know something vnsmr
> I'm thinking I gotta try this grandpa herbs for myself......one of you Colorado cats come to Vermont will ya? we need grandpa herbs to "Enlighten" the smoker who thinks kiefed outdoor or chemmy indoor is topshelf


I already told RM3 when I am able I'm going to buy some of his beans. Yeah looks like what I need in my life too. Give some cob curing a try then....https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=309172


----------



## RM3 (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> don't ask how
> 
> light, you see it is designed to penetrate 3 feet of water to grow coral in aquariums (if you read the whole page I posted the link to you would know this)
> 
> even bullets from my sks can't penetrate water that well lmao


huge difference in the speed of light and the speed of a bullet, not mention the drag coefficient in relation to size 

a way to measure light penetration in water happen in 1933 
http://jeb.biologists.org/content/jexbio/10/4/293.full.pdf

Not to mention the review where the guy hung the lights and saw over an inch of new coral growth the next day ?


----------



## RM3 (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> I know when your serious brah
> so checkout the nodes stacks under a 30 dollar 5000k plantmaxx bulb 400 watt mh
> View attachment 3776023
> 10 fucken days from seed pop....right into 5 gallons lol I'm a nutball


Nice !


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 8, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I already told RM3 when I am able I'm going to buy some of his beans. Yeah looks like what I need in my life too. Give some cob curing a try then....https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=309172


you shouldn't have to buy anything from him imho.


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## RM3 (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> you shouldn't have to buy anything from him imho.


Why would that be ? 

I know it's true I give a lot away and it's shared all over the world but I'm truly curious bout your humble opinion


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> you shouldn't have to buy anything from him imho.


Well I don't foresee any trips to Colorado coming soon so best way to obtain


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Why would that be ?
> 
> I know it's true I give a lot away and it's shared all over the world but I'm truly curious bout your humble opinion


Why charge him? My point being if the dudes on a tight budget being generous is fine. I can't wrap my head around " I won't help ya unless ya pay"


----------



## RM3 (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> Why charge him? My point being if the dudes on a tight budget being generous is fine. I can't wrap my head around " I won't help ya unless ya pay"


I help folks every day and not just here, I'm on a few forums, I do it because I enjoy it 
But I'm not the only one sellin seeds and I'm actually only doin it to try and save my home, it's not new news that I've been unable to work for the last few months. Hell if that wasn't the case I'd already have that light. But fair enough, I asked


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> Why charge him? My point being if the dudes on a tight budget being generous is fine. I can't wrap my head around " I won't help ya unless ya pay"


Funny, I'll bet you don't hold Walmart or home Depot to that same standard; what's your problem with letting a guy earn a lil extra money from his own hard work?!

How about you come mow my yard for free, while you're at it?!


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## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 8, 2016)

wonderful anaology.....and HONESTLY....bout the only thing id give you for free is dental work.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Funny, I'll bet you don't hold Walmart or home Depot to that same standard; what's your problem with letting a guy earn a lil extra money from his own hard work?!
> 
> How about you come mow my yard for free, while you're at it?!




that's how I picture ty


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> View attachment 3776147that's how I picture ty


Derp. 

So you want something for nothing from others, yet get offended and make stupid posts when someone asks you to do the same. 

Go find another sucker, jerkoff.


----------



## Friction1957 (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> Why charge him? My point being if the dudes on a tight budget being generous is fine. I can't wrap my head around " I won't help ya unless ya pay"


I'm sincerely curious about this statement. Why would it be wrong for a breeder to sell his seeds? I'm confused and just not seeing the logic in this.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 8, 2016)

Its the way the world operates at the present time. Considering it's the only way to get quality beans from most everyone, I definitely don't mind paying when I got it to pay with. Also considering the fire which is attained on this end from those beans, very small price to pay.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 8, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I disagree with what that article stated. I see a lot of genetics flowering at 14/10 or even 14.5/9.5. Some will flower with more light.
> 
> Sativas tend to need less. Around 12/12 or less.
> 
> I do it myself indoors. I lower the light by a little each week. 30 min or so. All except the purest sativas flower around 14/10.


Ill correct myself. I guess the article would be right. The article was talking about ripening. I was referring to flower onset.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 8, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> Why charge him? My point being if the dudes on a tight budget being generous is fine. I can't wrap my head around " I won't help ya unless ya pay"


That was never said. 

Rm3 has let me pick his brain without trying to sell me a thing. Rm3 has never once solicited money from me or anyone else that needed help.

Nothing wrong with making a dollar off ones own work.


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 8, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> You posting that and churchaze liking it says more about you two than the person you are attacking.
> 
> See It shows you are shallow on several levels. You think less of someone because of their looks. You also make baseless attacks.
> 
> ...


You should control your own behavior.


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## churchhaze (Sep 8, 2016)

20 years later and people on forums still wonder if UV-B actually does anything (useful)... therefore it must be conclusive! UV-B is what produces THC!

HPS has little to no UV-B, therefore the weed you grow with it has very low THC. That sounds about right. (sarcasm)


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## churchhaze (Sep 8, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> My behavior is fine.
> 
> Nothing wrong with me telling you how it is. You are an ass. Don't like it, quit being an ass.


You make such compelling arguments. Did your mom teach you how to talk like that?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 8, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> You make such compelling arguments. Did your mom teach you how to talk like that?


It's called telling the truth, lol


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's called telling the truth, lol


I thought you had me on ignore.


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## shorelineOG (Sep 8, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Its the way the world operates at the present time. Considering it's the only way to get quality beans from most everyone, I definitely don't mind paying when I got it to pay with. Also considering the fire which is attained on this end from those beans, very small price to pay.


Do you have pictures of any Vietnamese sativas? How good is it compared to name brand strains?


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 8, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Do you have pictures of any Vietnamese sativas? How good is it compared to name brand strains?


Ive got some, will dig up in a while and post here. I dont find the taste is there as most farmers here dont know what drying is or they dont have a chance to properly dry before passing it on. Ive found a couple in 10 years time here which tasted nice. The stone is definitely up there, and some will still fck me up after 10 years of smoking it like a heavy cigarette smoker smokes cigs.


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## BobCajun (Sep 8, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Ill correct myself. I guess the article would be right. The article was talking about ripening. I was referring to flower onset.


Parthenocarpy to be more precise. Presumably, it only happens in late flowering. Maybe a certain number of hours for the last little while will produce maximum calyx swelling, possibly 9.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 8, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Do you have pictures of any Vietnamese sativas? How good is it compared to name brand strains?


Ha I forgot I went on a cleaning period about 6 months ago and deleted all photos of any plants I grew, or thought I had. Had a moment. But just noticed I only deleted pre 2015. I found these though


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 9, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Ive got some, will dig up in a while and post here. I dont find the taste is there as most farmers here dont know what drying is or they dont have a chance to properly dry before passing it on. Ive found a couple in 10 years time here which tasted nice. The stone is definitely up there, and some will still fck me up after 10 years of smoking it like a heavy cigarette smoker smokes cigs.


Are they heavily interbred with Thailand and Cambodian Sativa's like Australian's have been? (Australia's seem to be a blend of Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand strains.) or have they remained largely uncorrupted?


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 9, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> Are they heavily interbred with Thailand and Cambodian Sativa's like Australian's have been? (Australia's seem to be a blend of Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand strains.) or have they remained largely uncorrupted?


Nah these are not heavily interbred imo. They are all so different Cambodian, Thai, Vietnamese


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

What happened Church, you spent last night trollin White ? I feel left out 

Perhaps this quote from one of my cult members will help ya get back in your groove tonight ,,,,,,,

"Thanks Ring! I have really enjoyed seeing things progress...Learning the differences in autos compared to reggie beans, reading plants, light cycles....It all makes sense... and seems so simple now...

Honestly, Im just following the game-plan as laid out by @RM3 and practiced by my fellow Riddlerz...When you have all the tools, a knowledge repository like we do, and enough knowledge to be dangerous... the plants damn near grow themselves. IVE NEVER SEEN SO MANY TRICHS... On top/bottom of ALL sugar leaves...all the way down to the bottom buds... just wow.

"Humble in victory, humble in defeat"... These last few grows have been victorious...but I cant take the credit... Im a mere journeyman in this cannabis lifestyle... but I am learning from the masters."


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 9, 2016)

RM3 said:


> What happened Church, you spent last night trollin White ? I feel left out
> 
> Perhaps this quote from one of my cult members will help ya get back in your groove tonight ,,,,,,,
> 
> ...


Actually he didn't. I was responding to the pics that was put up and said it was ttystick. Church liked the post. 

I just said that for the person to post that and church to like shows them to be shallow people that would judge someone by their looks. I went to say that even if that photo was of you or ttystick I would still shake either ones hand, drink a beer and smoke some with you guys.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Actually he didn't. I was responding to the pics that was put up and said it was ttystick. Church liked the post.
> 
> I just said that for the person to post that and church to like shows them to be shallow people that would judge someone by their looks. I went to say that even if that photo was of you or ttystick I would still shake either ones hand, drink a beer and smoke some with you guys.


Well he didn't quote any of mine? Perhaps he has me on ignore


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Bout to post some pics that will make ya go Hmmmmmmm 

Stay Tuned


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Today we're gonna talk about why I want to mix LED with T5, but it is also about so many folks that think the 1, 3, or 5 watt leds are crap? 
And to demonstrate this very cool phenomenon we're gonna visit my cloning tray 

The first pic shows it in action, the clones are rooted and growing and are 3 to 5 inches tall. The lights are a 15 watt T8 2700K and a 23 rated watts led with 15, 1 watt diodes. The T8 is 10 to 12 inches off the canopy depending on point of reference. The led is a tad over 2 feet off the canopy and is a blurple led with 10 red, 4 blue and 1 UV diodes. (2nd pic)
.


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Yeppers it is that 1 little UV led 2 feet away that causes the babies and clones to tric up the way they do 

Here is a shot of the Holy Fuck clone, but this is not what the thread is about ,,,,,
.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Nope what it is about is PENETRATION of light and how these 2 completely different light sources work together.

Prepare to go Hmmmmmm

1st pic with just the T8 on, note the green leaves and white perlite with no shadow
.


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

This 2nd pic is just the LED on, note the leaves are blurple, there is a distinct shadow and under the shadow the perlite is a tad more red ,,,,
.


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

And finally the 3rd pic is both lights on, note the shadow as well as the perlite has now taken on a green color. Also note the leaves that are shadowed by other leaves are also showin green (more pics of this to come).
.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Yeppers, light passin thru the leaves givin us a green tint Hmmmmmmm


----------



## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Now lets back out a bit and look at the leaf shadows ,,,,,,
1st pic T8 on
.


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

2nd pic led only
.


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

yeppers, lower left is the Holy Fuck glowing with resin (not all do it)


----------



## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

3rd pic is both lights on, note the spots under leaves (shadowed by leaves) are all green
.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

A different angle, both lights on
.


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Now lets move this angle back a bit, note the cupped leaf in the lower left corner underside showin green
(and yeppers the shiny resin on the Holy Fuck again)
.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Just got update pics of that CTF growin somewhere in Michigan, it's in a 10 gallon pot,
.


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## RM3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Oh and before I get trolled  I'll be the first to admit the light/color thing can be an optical illusion of sorts, you know that whole reflection, refraction, absorption thing


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## MeGaKiLlErMaN (Sep 9, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Today we're gonna talk about why I want to mix LED with T5, but it is also about so many folks that think the 1, 3, or 5 watt leds are crap?
> And to demonstrate this very cool phenomenon we're gonna visit my cloning tray
> 
> The first pic shows it in action, the clones are rooted and growing and are 3 to 5 inches tall. The lights are a 15 watt T8 2700K and a 23 rated watts led with 15, 1 watt diodes. The T8 is 10 to 12 inches off the canopy depending on point of reference. The led is a tad over 2 feet off the canopy and is a blurple led with 10 red, 4 blue and 1 UV diodes. (2nd pic)
> ...


I still stand with my stance. 20% efficient is still not worth it. Might as well use a $12 citi 1212 and use that for the same thing. And it can be used for a bunch more


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## bobdagrowah (Sep 9, 2016)

Yall do realize there's more then 1 way too grow right, I will say this rm told me about sulfur after a post I read of his I switched feed and he was correct I'm not saying he's 100 percent correct all the time but I am saying try it if it doesn't work move on instead of trying to tell him he's wrong


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## churchhaze (Sep 10, 2016)

Looks like grandpa fell off his rocker.


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## RM3 (Sep 10, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Looks like grandpa fell off his rocker.


Happens a lot lol


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## Friction1957 (Sep 10, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Happens a lot lol


My grand kids push me off mine just for sport..............


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## Tyleb173rd (Sep 10, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Just got update pics of that CTF growin somewhere in Michigan, it's in a 10 gallon pot,
> .
> View attachment 3776739 View attachment 3776740


Oh my!!!!!!! That looks great!!! Is that from seed or clone?


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## RM3 (Sep 10, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Oh my!!!!!!! That looks great!!! Is that from seed or clone?


Is a clone bein passed around, Tis now in 9 states


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## DCobeen (Sep 10, 2016)

Wow had to ignore 2 idiots. Okay now Rid is and always be a straight up cool man. I dont do everything Rm3 does as I am my own grower. I must say allot of things I do is because of his research. I am gonna bet that light will be awesome. I currently have 5 diff CTF's going and will see what phenos make the top list. I also have the #4 cut that is going around as you seen in that pick. Not everyone does what rid teaches as @ttystikk is on his own journey and loving it. But you seen how he fights back for rm3 as its about respect which RM3 has my full respect.


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2016)

DCobeen said:


> Wow had to ignore 2 idiots. Okay now Rid is and always be a straight up cool man. I dont do everything Rm3 does as I am my own grower. I must say allot of things I do is because of his research. I am gonna bet that light will be awesome. I currently have 5 diff CTF's going and will see what phenos make the top list. I also have the #4 cut that is going around as you seen in that pick. Not everyone does what rid teaches as @ttystikk is on his own journey and loving it. But you seen how he fights back for rm3 as its about respect which RM3 has my full respect.


It may not be immediately evident, but there's a lot I do that comes from his work. 

It's sad that there are so many who have nothing better to do with their time than constantly harass others on this forum.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It may not be immediately evident, but there's a lot I do that comes from his work.
> 
> It's sad that there are so many who have nothing better to do with their time than constantly harass others on this forum.


Fucking oxygen thieves


----------



## Odin* (Sep 11, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Oh and before I get trolled  I'll be the first to admit the light/color thing can be an optical illusion of sorts, you know that whole reflection, refraction, absorption thing


Let's assume, for arguments sake, that it is not an "optical illusion" generated by "reflection, refraction, absorption" (which "it is"). How is this at all beneficial to cannabis and distinguishes your light from others?

Not trolling, genuinely curious.


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## RM3 (Sep 11, 2016)

Odin* said:


> Let's assume, for arguments sake, that it is not an "optical illusion" generated by "reflection, refraction, absorption" (which "it is"). How is this at all beneficial to cannabis and distinguishes your light from others?
> 
> Not trolling, genuinely curious.


The 2 big standouts would be the programming and dual lens configuration. The design to penetrate 3 feet of water, with a recommended placement of 2 feet above the tank, that's 5 feet of penetration from 3 watt diodes. The first thing I learned when I switched to T5's was that aquarium bulbs out performed all others for this very reason. Match that with spectrum ratio's I have spent years figuring out for a much higher quality product.

The one thing in the optical illusion pics that is real is the tric and resin development from the 1 watt UV diode at 2+ feet


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## Resinhound (Sep 11, 2016)

RM3 said:


> The 2 big standouts would be the programming and dual lens configuration. The design to penetrate 3 feet of water, with a recommended placement of 2 feet above the tank, that's 5 feet of penetration from 3 watt diodes. The first thing I learned when I switched to T5's was that aquarium bulbs out performed all others for this very reason. Match that with spectrum ratio's I have spent years figuring out for a much higher quality product.
> 
> The one thing in the optical illusion pics that is real is the tric and resin development from the 1 watt UV diode at 2+ feet


I put my plants under a UV enhanced aquarium led for their last week or so and I've had good results from that. They end up Frostier then ever.


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## RM3 (Sep 11, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> I put my plants under a UV enhanced aquarium led for their last week or so and I've had good results from that. They end up Frostier then ever.


And your pics show it


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## DCobeen (Sep 11, 2016)

I find that starting UV low in veg then in flower but increasing in last 3 weeks of flower builds more resin and buds are not only more potent but gives a more complex high. That is why t5's with ATI bulbs rock as it gives a more complex high with legs. In Michigan here I see allot of days with a UV index of 6 out of 10. So to replicate that is huge. Its about finding lights that can produce like HID while giving a more complex high. Led's can grow some fire also.


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## churchhaze (Sep 11, 2016)

Odin* said:


> Let's assume, for arguments sake, that it is not an "optical illusion" generated by "reflection, refraction, absorption" (which "it is"). How is this at all beneficial to cannabis and distinguishes your light from others?
> 
> Not trolling, genuinely curious.


His light is complete garbage and his denial of math is an attempt to pull the wool over your eyes. (oldest trick in the old grandpa book)

It's not trolling. It's the truth. Math will protect you from his bullshit.


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

DCobeen said:


> I find that starting UV low in veg then in flower but increasing in last 3 weeks of flower builds more resin and buds are not only more potent but gives a more complex high. That is why t5's with ATI bulbs rock as it gives a more complex high with legs. In Michigan here I see allot of days with a UV index of 6 out of 10. So to replicate that is huge. Its about finding lights that can produce like HID while giving a more complex high. Led's can grow some fire also.


Colorado's UV index can hit 12 or 13 on that same 0-10 scale, lol. High altitude and low ozone both contribute.


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## RM3 (Sep 11, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> His light is complete garbage and his denial of math is an attempt to pull the wool over your eyes. (oldest trick in the old grandpa book)
> 
> It's not trolling. It's the truth. Math will protect you from his bullshit.


And you say the same thing about flowerin with T5's,,,,,,,,,

How bout you show us the smoke reports of your buds ??? 

When was the last time you humbled a grower with a pin joint ???

While you math techies are playin with efficiency, some of us are focusing on truly connoisseur buds and product in preparation of the future when it becomes legal. While you grow rot-gut we're growin 30 yr old single malt 
_
Oh, and I never denied math, I simply stated that plants don't understand it, kinda like that whole inverse square law thing you guys love so much becomin moot as soon as you add a reflective panel to the mix lmao _


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## shorelineOG (Sep 11, 2016)

As it becomes more legitimate it will be grown in the sun. I don't even like to post pics of indoor plants because of how much better they do outside. Not to mention the cost of electricity and equipment could be invested in land or a greenhouse.


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> As it becomes more legitimate it will be grown in the sun. I don't even like to post pics of indoor plants because of how much better they do outside. Not to mention the cost of electricity and equipment could be invested in land or a greenhouse.


If this is the case then why does outdoor sell at a discount to indoor?


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 11, 2016)

Because of that dumbass thing called prohibition


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> His light is complete garbage and his denial of math is an attempt to pull the wool over your eyes. (oldest trick in the old grandpa book)
> 
> It's not trolling. It's the truth. Math will protect you from his bullshit.


Yeah, it's trolling when you made these same points years ago and now can't seem to just let it go. 

Plants don't do math, they respond to conditions. Smart people use math to interpret the results and predict future outcomes. 

Dumb people misuse math in an attempt to dictate outcomes. 

Most of us have long since figured out which one you are, yet your neurotic persistence won't let you just give it a rest.


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Because of that dumbass thing called prohibition


No, if outdoor quality was better, it would sell at the premium price. It doesn't, because it isn't better.


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## shorelineOG (Sep 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If this is the case then why does outdoor sell at a discount to indoor?


A couple of reasons. Many outdoor growers end up with 100 pounds off 30 plants and don't trim it good. Biggest give away is the way it's trimmed. Indoor will usually look better and may be better quality but it's damn near free to grow outside and these dudes can sell pounds for 800 and still make money. Top quality weed is $45 a pound at the border and they sale it by the ton.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 11, 2016)

prohibition has dictated all the prices. It should be like fucking tomatoes


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## shorelineOG (Sep 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No, if outdoor quality was better, it would sell at the premium price. It doesn't, because it isn't better.


Indoor can be better but the profit margin is not good. All the outdoor growers end up giving away the stuff they harvest so much. I meet many growers who make the switch to outdoors and they say it's the best decision of their life. It's also better for the environment and 12 foot sativas are a beautiful thing, but indoor has its place.


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> prohibition has dictated all the prices. It should be like fucking tomatoes


...And better tomatoes still fetch higher prices than poorer ones.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 11, 2016)

Yeah I agree with that @ttystikk . What I dont agree with is something grown indoor 3000 a p and something grown outdoor 1000. Those numbers are just fucking dumb. I'll be happy when the scale shifts to something realistic. Yeah , you can see Im not a "for profit" grower....


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yeah I agree with that @ttystikk . What I dont agree with is something grown indoor 3000 a p and something grown outdoor 1000. Those numbers are just fucking dumb. I'll be happy when the scale shifts to something realistic. Yeah , you can see Im not a "for profit" grower....


I happen to agree with you. And I AM a for profit producer of growing equipment; I believe the equipment I'm developing will help reduce costs- and that eventually will have an effect on prices.


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## shorelineOG (Sep 11, 2016)

In a few years flower will be less popular and concentrates like rosin will be what people smoke. Then they won't ask if it's indoor or outdoor.


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## shorelineOG (Sep 11, 2016)

Mexico is by far the largest producer of Marijuana in the world. If and when they turn their product into oil/rosin and smuggle that instead of tractor trailers full of pressed brick weed that will be a game changer.


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## Lord Kanti (Sep 11, 2016)

RM3 said:


> My research indicates that there are cannabinoids found in seeded plants that are not found in unseeded plants so there could be an extended entourage effect ? It could also be that the plant gets more serious about protecting the seeds from the UV rays ? There is not a lot of research on this yet but those would be my best guesses as to why it happens.
> 
> As for no couch lock, I grow very differently, use a different spectrum, with different lights, different light timings, a sulfur rich medium. I have always (in my thoughts) attributed couch lock to hps lights and 12/12 timing ? But I honestly don't know if it one or combination of all? I actually wanted a couch lock strain for sleep but none I've ever grown have had it and I'm not changin how I grow cause I loves the Grandpa weed


I think the seed claim is bogus. Strongest hits I've ever had have come from seeded bud. I've let my plants catch pollen this last year and I've not noticed a weaker end product. Seeds are fun, like a box of chocolates. One of my recent plants has seeds that could chip a tooth. They're nuts...


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## RM3 (Sep 11, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Mexico is by far the largest producer of Marijuana in the world. If and when they turn their product into oil/rosin and smuggle that instead of tractor trailers full of pressed brick weed that will be a game changer.


How they gonna get it past Trump's wall ???


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> In a few years flower will be less popular and concentrates like rosin will be what people smoke. Then they won't ask if it's indoor or outdoor.


I don't buy this. Here in Colorado people have access to all the above- and what do you know, they like all different kinds! 

By way of personal example, I have access to shatter and rosin that would make your mouth water. I have some, occasionally. The rest of the time I much prefer my flowers.


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Mexico is by far the largest producer of Marijuana in the world. If and when they turn their product into oil/rosin and smuggle that instead of tractor trailers full of pressed brick weed that will be a game changer.


And here I thought California was a bigger producer, especially when so many states went legal and stopped being willing to buy pressed ditchweed.

You can't GIVE AWAY Mexican brick here in Colorado, even the hash makers won't touch it.


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## shorelineOG (Sep 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't buy this. Here in Colorado people have access to all the above- and what do you know, they like all different kinds!
> 
> By way of personal example, I have access to shatter and rosin that would make your mouth water. I have some, occasionally. The rest of the time I much prefer my flowers.


I smoke joints and love puffing on a joint. I had never heard of a dab until I moved to Colorado. It is a generational thing and the younger guys have turned me on to rosin and I like it. Most of the South buys billions of dollars of Mexican weed so border security would influence Marijuana prices for sure. Would like to see an end to the smuggling of hard drugs that are harming and corrupting both nations.


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## Lord Kanti (Sep 11, 2016)

RM3 said:


> How they gonna get it past Trump's wall ???


They'll build the wall out of hash bricks. Fiber Weed.


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> I smoke joints and love puffing on a joint. I had never heard of a dab until I moved to Colorado. It is a generational thing and the younger guys have turned me on to rosin and I like it. Most of the South buys billions of dollars of Mexican weed so border security would influence Marijuana prices for sure. Would like to see an end to the smuggling of hard drugs that are harming and corrupting both nations.


No arguments from me.


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## Friction1957 (Sep 11, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> I smoke joints and love puffing on a joint. I had never heard of a dab until I moved to Colorado. It is a generational thing and the younger guys have turned me on to rosin and I like it. Most of the South buys billions of dollars of Mexican weed so border security would influence Marijuana prices for sure. Would like to see an end to the smuggling of hard drugs that are harming and corrupting both nations.


It will remain diversified consumption. I like single malt, and my neighbor likes PBR. Each will have a place.

Oh and one of the reasons for lower prices for outdoor is the seasonal glut. There are TONS of it available Q4, (Oct to Dec) and availability puts strong pressures on pricing. Additionally much of the outdoor weed is grown in a "plant it and come back in 6 months" grow style. Much of the nurturing that indoor plants receive is not provided in old style outdoor grows. There are some impressive results that can be seen from skilled outdoor growers that work their grows with the same energy and attention that indoor growers do.


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## THE KONASSURE (Sep 11, 2016)

Any data on people cutting the protective silicone off of cob chips ?

Just wondering if you get any more deep blues or deep reds when you cut that protective layer off of say a 3000k or 5000k cob chip ?

@RM3 have you got round to any data on x-rays and such I know tube lights like to spit out a few kinds of radiation, also I`ve often thought tube lights must be great for coverage so many lighting angles off them tubes must lead to pretty uniform bud growth, a lot of people lighting top down seem to lose bud size fast as you look down the plant, normally as there lights are a few bright spots over a large area they have the numbers but not spread out....... I find tube lights do spread the light and the heat better I`ll give them that all day long

Sill would be fun to mimic your set up with induction lamps and do a vs........ I think it`d be close if you could get the right induction tubes set up right


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 11, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Because of that dumbass thing called prohibition


and clever marketing.
The public are taught that indoor is better.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> NICE WORK.
> 
> Following directions is a valuable skill, don't ever let anyone tell you differently.
> 
> ...


Disasters bring results just hope your still alive to fix it .


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Disasters bring results just hope your still alive to fix it .


I survive; my plants don't always make it though lol


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> and clever marketing.
> The public are taught that indoor is better.


Bullshit. People know good weed when they see and smoke it.



Friction1957 said:


> It will remain diversified consumption. I like single malt, and my neighbor likes PBR. Each will have a place.
> 
> Oh and one of the reasons for lower prices for outdoor is the seasonal glut. There are TONS of it available Q4, (Oct to Dec) and availability puts strong pressures on pricing. Additionally much of the outdoor weed is grown in a "plant it and come back in 6 months" grow style. Much of the nurturing that indoor plants receive is not provided in old style outdoor grows. There are some impressive results that can be seen from skilled outdoor growers that work their grows with the same energy and attention that indoor growers do.


This is more like it.


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## Michiganjesse (Sep 11, 2016)

Very 


RM3 said:


> Finally, researchers appear to have identified the actual pathway of exactly how UVB affects THC production. While the analysis is somewhat technical, we’ll do our best to outline the results below. Ready?
> 
> UVB causes damage in plants in much the same way as it damages human skin, and plants created defenses against UVB in the form of a protein called UVR8.
> 
> ...


knowledgeable


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## Michiganjesse (Sep 11, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Mexico is by far the largest producer of Marijuana in the world. If and when they turn their product into oil/rosin and smuggle that instead of tractor trailers full of pressed brick weed that will be a game changer.


Can't belive they don't do it yet


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## Michiganjesse (Sep 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't buy this. Here in Colorado people have access to all the above- and what do you know, they like all different kinds!
> 
> By way of personal example, I have access to shatter and rosin that would make your mouth water. I have some, occasionally. The rest of the time I much prefer my flowers.


Me also


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## Michiganjesse (Sep 11, 2016)

I smoked a few hits of some brick weed a few weeks ago ugh nasty but brought back the early 90's as a teen until i got smart and found local growers by 17. I didn't know that stuff still existed. I did like the highs back then. But i always wonder was it the place and time no cares no responsibility just don't get caught or was it the weed. (Mushrooms acid mescaline ) that i remember oh i couldn't touch any of that stuff now a days i would be it off my mind lmfao i was back then.3 Kids a wife business no way could i entertain that stuff.


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## Rob Roy (Sep 11, 2016)

RM3 said:


> My research indicates that there are cannabinoids found in seeded plants that are not found in unseeded plants so there could be an extended entourage effect ? It could also be that the plant gets more serious about protecting the seeds from the UV rays ? There is not a lot of research on this yet but those would be my best guesses as to why it happens.
> 
> As for no couch lock, I grow very differently, use a different spectrum, with different lights, different light timings, a sulfur rich medium. I have always (in my thoughts) attributed couch lock to hps lights and 12/12 timing ? But I honestly don't know if it one or combination of all? I actually wanted a couch lock strain for sleep but none I've ever grown have had it and I'm not changin how I grow cause I loves the Grandpa weed


Thanks for the reply. Speaking of the entourage effect. I've seen some multi strain joint mixes that seem to have an increased potency, friends and I have theorized the mixed joints rolled from a heaping tray containing many scraps of different strains might have a wider band of terpenes et al . Of course when baked the theories themselves can be half baked. 

If you're looking for some "fall asleep" weed, you might give Herijuana a try. It can be very couch lock.


----------



## Michiganjesse (Sep 11, 2016)

Rob Roy said:


> Thanks for the reply. Speaking of the entourage effect. I've seen some multi strain joint mixes that seem to have an increased potency, friends and I have theorized the mixed joints rolled from a heaping tray containing many scraps of different strains might have a wider band of terpenes et al . Of course when baked the theories themselves can be half baked.
> 
> If you're looking for some "fall asleep" weed, you might give Herijuana a try. It can be very couch lock.


How does it grow? Is it easy to grow I'm not that good i need easy strain to grow. I like the entourage effect I grow multiple strains throw all the buds mixed up in jars and just grab a jar full to go


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## Rob Roy (Sep 11, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> How does it grow? Is it easy to grow I'm not that good i need easy strain to grow. I like the entourage effect I grow multiple strains throw all the buds mixed up in jars and just grab a jar full to go


Like a weed.


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## Friction1957 (Sep 11, 2016)

Rob Roy said:


> Like a weed.


lolololol


----------



## Michiganjesse (Sep 11, 2016)

Rob Roy said:


> Like a weed.


Thats good lol no but really is it a hardy resistant plant. I'm am a horrible grower


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## Rob Roy (Sep 11, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> Thats good lol no but really is it a hardy resistant plant. I'm am a horrible grower


Easy.

Although it's not my favorite to consume recreationally. It's a little too narcotic. 

Read as much as you can. There's a lot of good growers here. Good luck.


----------



## Michiganjesse (Sep 11, 2016)

Rob Roy said:


> Easy.
> 
> Although it's not my favorite to consume recreationally. It's a little too narcotic.
> 
> Read as much as you can. There's a lot of good growers here. Good luck.


Thank you i will try it out. I read everything I can get my hands on daily it's my only hobby and takes care if mine and my wife's meds. Mostly but I really am bad i know everything could tell you how to grow but i just can't get it right


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Bullshit. People know good weed when they see and smoke it
> .


There is (or should I say was) HUGE hype over "hydro" back in the late 80s. Price's could be nearly double. Some dealers sold outdoor as "hydro"- cannot blame them the extra profit margin was well worth it.

Good smoko is good smoko wheather grown inside or out. But people believe indoors is not just better but noticeably better. I dont buy that. People believe this due to the old marketing when "Hydro" first appeared on the market. 

I haven't bought any pot in decades but back then you couldn't "try before you buy". (im guessing you cannot today either unless buying in bulk) You got what they said they had.


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## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> There is (or should I say was) HUGE hype over "hydro" back in the late 80s. Price's could be nearly double. Some dealers sold outdoor as "hydro"- cannot blame them the extra profit margin was well worth it.
> 
> Good smoko is good smoko wheather grown inside or out. But people believe indoors is not just better but noticeably better. I dont buy that. People believe this due to the old marketing when "Hydro" first appeared on the market.
> 
> I haven't bought any pot in decades but back then you couldn't "try before you buy". (im guessing you cannot today either unless buying in bulk) You got what they said they had.


Colorado is one of the world's most sophisticated cannabis markets at the moment. People can and do get very picky indeed about their weed. Outdoor simply sells at a discount because of widely perceived deficiencies in flavor, potency and harshness. 

I happen to agree that top quality cannabis CAN be grown outdoors, but for whatever reason it generally isn't.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I happen to agree that top quality cannabis CAN be grown outdoors, but for whatever reason it generally isn't.


Yep absolutely, can and is. I do believe that once these fucked regulations/laws are changed and the ability to grow worldwide outdoors can be done, I think that will change. In general people are growing indoors for 2 reasons, 1. weather, or 2. because its illegal where they are. Once its no longer illegal things will shift quite a lot I think.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 12, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yep absolutely, can and is. I do believe that once these fucked regulations/laws are changed and the ability to grow worldwide outdoors can be done, I think that will change. In general people are growing indoors for 2 reasons, 1. weather, or 2. because its illegal where they are. Once its no longer illegal things will shift quite a lot I think.


It's a hell of a lot easier to walk to the shed than the swamp lol. Call me strange but I prefer the taste of hydro grown weed than soil (outdoor), just seems to be a cleaner taste IMO. And yup the Mexicans are making shatter but it's pricey down there as here. They are changing the game to stay in the game. Last run we did (15 years ago) had to send it back cause we were stuck with it and couldn't move it....utter shit .


----------



## Lucky Luke (Sep 12, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> It's a hell of a lot easier to walk to the shed than the swamp lol. Call me strange but I prefer the taste of hydro grown weed than soil (outdoor), just seems to be a cleaner taste IMO. And yup the Mexicans are making shatter but it's pricey down there as here. They are changing the game to stay in the game. Last run we did (15 years ago) had to send it back cause we were stuck with it and couldn't move it....utter shit .


Maybe thats why the stigma of outdoor wont go away..bad grown weed. I dont live anywhere near Mexico...like im a Looooooooooooong way away..lol. Our outdoor in the main is very good. We do tend to believe what the Yanks say is Gospel to though (and any educated man knows that that written and spoken by the higher power is not necessarily true)


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 12, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> Maybe thats why the stigma of outdoor wont go away..bad grown weed. I dont live anywhere near Mexico...like im a Looooooooooooong way away..lol. Our outdoor in the main is very good. We do tend to believe what the Yanks say is Gospel to though (and any educated man knows that that written and spoken by the higher power is not necessarily true)


Not saying the outdoor is not good, it can be very good, just not keen on the taste is all, perhaps I just smoked to much lol. And true that re untruths, but if you take what is offered, decipher the bull, and apply it to your situation then you should be a better grower. Now back to the thread lol, where do I buy the seeds? And good for RM to finally get these strains out and let the masses decide if in fact it is the strains of the past, not my grampa's pot I hope, it was hemp . But my pot from 16 on where I forgot to turn off a sink and filled every cupboard drawer with water and flooded a hotel, where I had a car accident every month because I forgot to look ..... That's the pot I want lol. Promise not to drive this time .


----------



## Lucky Luke (Sep 12, 2016)

back to the thread,,ur right,,sorry RM3


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 12, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Mexico is by far the largest producer of Marijuana in the world. If and when they turn their product into oil/rosin and smuggle that instead of tractor trailers full of pressed brick weed that will be a game changer.


The problem is they can and do still sell brick and lots of it but they are changing and trying to up their game. Infastructure and knowledge base is one of the issues. There's a huge opertunity down there right now to make closets full of cash but there is also a high risk of getting your head lopped off lol. Edit .... Sorry I'm high and keep veering off track lol.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Sep 12, 2016)

I remember getting lost..every week....on roads close to home that i drove on everyday..thats the smoke i want.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 12, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> I remember getting lost..every week....on roads close to home that i drove on everyday..thats the smoke i want.


That still happens to me but me thinks it's early dementia .


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 12, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I believe the equipment I'm developing will help reduce costs- and that eventually will have an effect on prices.


You're a joke.


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 12, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yep absolutely, can and is. I do believe that once these fucked regulations/laws are changed and the ability to grow worldwide outdoors can be done, I think that will change. In general people are growing indoors for 2 reasons, 1. weather, or 2. because its illegal where they are. Once its no longer illegal things will shift quite a lot I think.


Nah ty your just an ignorant dude in regards to this topic, see what you dont realize is colorado DOES NOT have the cream of the crop in everything, lots of folks LEFT the area when all the idiots came flooding to that area during legalization,and moved to other states where they wouldnt be "messed with".They have been hammerring out top shelf genetics since before you were born but DONT feel the need to advertise, make online grow journals, go to cannabis weed shows to let everyone stroke their ego's or what have you. Some are just DAMN GOOD at what they do and dont feel the need to be part of the "colorado scene"> Your balls deep in it and are convinced you guys are the leading edge...............My my my ignorance is truly bliss.


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 12, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> You're a joke.


I believe you are delusional and need to stop smoking cannabis altogether for at least 6 months to get your moral compass back.........if you indeed have one. I had a discussion this weekend with an old member from here who brought up a great question, If you and rm3 have everything figured out why do you come to rollitup to "convince" others? Rm3 has his own website, send your students there. Rm3 is just as guilty at starting shit as any troll in tnt from my experiance of watching. I am not shocked at all that ty and rm3 like each other.....birds of a feather dont cha know. Your not here to help people...your here to convince them that your way is THE BESTWAY which is BULLSHIT!


----------



## churchhaze (Sep 12, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> I believe you are delusional and need to stop smoking cannabis altogether for at least 6 months to get your moral compass back.........if you indeed have one. I had a discussion this weekend with an old member from here who brought up a great question, If you and rm3 have everything figured out why do you come to rollitup to "convince" others? Rm3 has his own website, send your students there. Rm3 is just as guilty at starting shit as any troll in tnt from my experiance of watching. I am not shocked at all that ty and rm3 like each other.....birds of a feather dont cha know. Your not here to help people...your here to convince them that your way is THE BESTWAY which is BULLSHIT!
> 
> View attachment 3778769


Again, another person tries to teach me how to behave while showing he can not write for more than a few seconds without becoming vulgar and profane. I will give you the same advice I gave that white guy... control your own behavior.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2016)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> I believe you are delusional and need to stop smoking cannabis altogether for at least 6 months to get your moral compass back.........if you indeed have one. I had a discussion this weekend with an old member from here who brought up a great question, If you and rm3 have everything figured out why do you come to rollitup to "convince" others? Rm3 has his own website, send your students there. Rm3 is just as guilty at starting shit as any troll in tnt from my experiance of watching. I am not shocked at all that ty and rm3 like each other.....birds of a feather dont cha know. Your not here to help people...your here to convince them that your way is THE BESTWAY which is BULLSHIT!
> 
> View attachment 3778769


No one is trying to tell you they are cooler than you- posts like these do that all by themselves.

Percious few people have left Colorado because of the weed laws, what a completely silly assertion! LMFAO!

You have a weird superiority complex, so own it. Neither @RM3 nor any of his associates are trying to tell anyone how to do anything; he gives advice based on his own experience to those who ask.

It's a conspiracy, all right- a conspiracy of friends helping each other out. With an attitude like yours, you'll always be on the outside looking in.

Your medical opinion is as ignorant as your growing advice, so check yourself before trying to check others.

Onto the ignore list with you- with all the other angry, self serving assholes who think they know everything and complain when anyone shows them they don't.


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## mauricem00 (Sep 12, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> I remember getting lost..every week....on roads close to home that i drove on everyday..thats the smoke i want.


that happened to me before I started using MMJ. it's just another reminder that im getting old . the smoke I remember cost $10 an ounce and two people could smoke a whole ounce in one evening.


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## cindysid (Sep 12, 2016)

mauricem00 said:


> that happened to me before I started using MMJ. it's just another reminder that im getting old . the smoke I remember cost $10 an ounce and two people could smoke a whole ounce in one evening.


And we smoked nearly everything...not just the buds! lol


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 13, 2016)

mauricem00 said:


> that happened to me before I started using MMJ. it's just another reminder that im getting old . the smoke I remember cost $10 an ounce and two people could smoke a whole ounce in one evening.


$10 an ounce ? wow.. in the late 80s it was $20- $25 for a stick here. Ounces were round the $250-$300 mark if memory serves. (??)

but we didnt have Mexico next door..lol


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 13, 2016)

In the late 80's ounces in n. la were 30 bucks but it was sticks, stems, & seeds (fucking pigs food). These days an ounce there will cost you $5-15 a gram depending if you get brick pack or something decently grown indoor


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 13, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> In the late 80's ounces in n. la were 30 bucks but it was sticks, stems, & seeds (fucking pigs food). These days an ounce there will cost you $5-15 a gram depending if you get brick pack or something decently grown indoor


No wonder you guys have such a stigma of out door.

Our pot has always been good (I dont know about prior the the 80's). Sticks were all bud. I dont think much was cured but thats was ok. It was good decent smoko in the main. But were closert to asian countries so we had allot of Thai etc comein in. Huge amounts of hash in the 90s.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 13, 2016)

Yeah LA is close enough to Mex and people were always after a buck. Sticks there were just that, sticks, with some crappy little piece of smashed pigs food attached


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## Budley Doright (Sep 13, 2016)

Poof goes another thread that could have been a great discussion about lighting, something I'm interested in due to an electric bill that's draining me . And also seen some pretty respectable grows using other lighting techniques besides HID. T5's ...... Well I think given the right strain and technique they grow weed, done it, but my yields were not what I want and need so looking for something else like COB/UV. Hate to stop using the actinic tubes though .... it takes amazingly cool pics . Does a unshielded MH not produce the most UV and if so would they not be better than a tube or LED?


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 13, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Yeah LA is close enough to Mex and people were always after a buck. Sticks there were just that, sticks, with some crappy little piece of smashed pigs food attached


It seemed to be the luck of the draw for us, one load would be good (still brown and seeded) and another not so, as time went on it just got to hard to move, all the indoor growers ruined it lol. And never would we bring any in in the fall when there was a flood of cheap field pot. Actually had to change tactic and do the field thing here, that was a giant crap shoot as well with half of them making it till finish, way riskier than moving it north but way more profit .


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 13, 2016)

I didnt know what good weed was until I moved the f*ck out of North Louisiana at 18. Funny how much things changed 200 miles South


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## churchhaze (Sep 13, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I didnt know what good weed was until I moved the f*ck out of North Louisiana at 18. Funny how much things changed 200 miles South


It's because they import grandpas brick from mexico.


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## Marijuana Mercenary (Sep 13, 2016)

The market is so flooded with dirt weed this year. Everyone and their grandpa is growing it. I don't know how these morons do it but they are growing indoor weed that is lower quality than the Mexican brick from days passed. If you have anything with decent bag appeal it sells out before theirs. I think they stay in business by having very desperate customers.

Brown, no trichomes, don't even care about trimming, tastes like burnt buds, aroma like old gym socks, covered in bugs that crackle when its smoked. If there is a bud cluster they give you a huge stem instead of breaking it down into buds.

And they still want 10-15 a gram.

I actually had a grower that wanted me to make dabs for him and brought over fan leaves.


----------



## mauricem00 (Sep 13, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Poof goes another thread that could have been a great discussion about lighting, something I'm interested in due to an electric bill that's draining me . And also seen some pretty respectable grows using other lighting techniques besides HID. T5's ...... Well I think given the right strain and technique they grow weed, done it, but my yields were not what I want and need so looking for something else like COB/UV. Hate to stop using the actinic tubes though .... it takes amazingly cool pics . Does a unshielded MH not produce the most UV and if so would they not be better than a tube or LED?


 it may seem strange but roseate bulbs produce a significant amount of UV light. about 8% of their total output is in the 300-400 nm range enough to stimulate THC production and keep the critters away ( spider mites etc) but not enough to burn plant so they can be run continuously .they also have a broad red peak at 650nm which increases phytochrome conversion causing the plant to direct more energy into flowering and bud production.one can produce a wide range of interesting spectrum's with T5s thanks to the aquarium community's demand for these specialty bulbs


----------



## DCobeen (Sep 13, 2016)

Okay I will say this if you use a greenhosue or cheap hoop house for outdoors you can control it allot better. I dont know if you all have smoked @Dr.D81 's outdoor pot but I will put it up against any bud grown indoors. You cant beet the sun for a light source period. I love indoor and outdoor pot. Only reason outdoor is cheaper is cause they dont have to pay for electricity for lights. We all pay more for indoor only cause we know light bills have to be added into price.


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## ttystikk (Sep 13, 2016)

DCobeen said:


> Okay I will say this if you use a greenhosue or cheap hoop house for outdoors you can control it allot better. I dont know if you all have smoked @Dr.D81 's outdoor pot but I will put it up against any bud grown indoors. You cant beet the sun for a light source period. I love indoor and outdoor pot. Only reason outdoor is cheaper is cause they dont have to pay for electricity for lights. We all pay more for indoor only cause we know light bills have to be added into price.


...and because we like to smoke weed at all times of the year, not just in the fall.


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 13, 2016)

mauricem00 said:


> it may seem strange but roseate bulbs produce a significant amount of UV light. about 8% of their total output is in the 300-400 nm range enough to stimulate THC production and keep the critters away ( spider mites etc) but not enough to burn plant so they can be run continuously .they also have a broad red peak at 650nm which increases phytochrome conversion causing the plant to direct more energy into flowering and bud production.one can produce a wide range of interesting spectrum's with T5s thanks to the aquarium community's demand for these specialty bulbs


What brand are you looking at? I'm going to see if I can get hortilux tubes here wholesale and play with a few of their powerveg t5's while I work on a COB setup .... Have no clue what I'm doing, just basically following the pack and maybe learn a bit on the way lol.


----------



## RoneGrown (Sep 13, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I grow under 1000 watts of T5 (18 bulbs) and I have tested many bulbs. The ones I recommend are ,,,,
> 
> ATI Coral Plus
> ATI True Actinic
> ...


Why does the UVB need caution?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 13, 2016)

RoneGrown said:


> Why does the UVB need caution?


Because it will burn the living fuck out of you; and under no circumstances should you EVER be without eye protection if you must be in its presence, which you should not. It's a very dangerous piece of equipment to operate and extreme caution must be observed.


----------



## Friction1957 (Sep 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Because it will burn the living fuck out of you; and under no circumstances should you EVER be without eye protection if you must be in its presence, which you should not. It's a very dangerous piece of equipment to operate and extreme caution must be observed.


Good luck getting people to hear that.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 13, 2016)

Friction1957 said:


> Good luck getting people to hear that.


Macular degeneration is permanent.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Sep 14, 2016)

thread is back on track!..hehe...

So the UVB globes you find in pet shops are the ones you guys are talking about? (i was out buying some fish on Sunday and saw them).


----------



## Friction1957 (Sep 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Macular degeneration is permanent.


So is most cases of stupid


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 14, 2016)

Friction1957 said:


> So is stupid


Yeah see my last post here http://rollitup.org/t/club-600.285620/page-5389


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## DCobeen (Sep 14, 2016)

RoneGrown said:


> Why does the UVB need caution?


those pure uv bulbs burnt @RM3 and fried a couple of his plants. You cant run them but short bursts during mid day lights on. you have to have all skin covered if working under them with UV blocking sunglasses also. We are figuring a way to use them so for now get actinic bulbs for UV. AGain the pure UV bulbs are to much UV for us or plants to handle. If you got a 5 min timer have them come on for 5 minutes per hr for 4 hrs in middle of lights on.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Sep 14, 2016)

DCobeen said:


> those pure uv bulbs burnt @RM3 and fried a couple of his plants. You cant run them but short bursts during mid day lights on. you have to have all skin covered if working under them with UV blocking sunglasses also. We are figuring a way to use them so for now get actinic bulbs for UV. AGain the pure UV bulbs are to much UV for us or plants to handle. If you got a 5 min timer have them come on for 5 minutes per hr for 4 hrs in middle of lights on.


What about the ones people use for Lizards and snakes and all things slithery?


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> What about the ones people use for Lizards and snakes and all things slithery?


Those are an order of magnitude less intense, so they won't burn your skin so quickly. They WILL still damage your eyes, so wear UV blocking eyewear anyway, or better yet, shut them off when working in the space. .


----------



## Lucky Luke (Sep 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Those are an order of magnitude less intense, so they won't burn your skin so quickly. They WILL still damage your eyes, so wear UV blocking eyewear anyway, or better yet, shut them off when working in the space. .


warning duly noted. My mum has macular degeneration in both eyes.


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> warning duly noted. My mum has macular degeneration in both eyes.


Quite so. People often just don't know the long term effects of much of the very powerful lighting and chemistry we play with on a daily basis when growing.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 14, 2016)

What about for your cob's as well Tty, have you invested in shades for the garden?


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 14, 2016)

I know those fuckers MUST be bright


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> What about for your cob's as well Tty, have you invested in shades for the garden?


COB LED emits no UV radiation, a very convenient feature. 

When I supplement the existing lighting with UVB, my plan is to have it run only when no one is in there.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 14, 2016)

So you dont need eye protection because theres no UVB? I dont buy thats good for your eyes


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I know those fuckers MUST be bright


Yes they are, the lenses do a good job of sending their light to the canopy instead of one's eyeballs.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 14, 2016)

Gruve's are around ~20 bucks a pair on amazon. Method 7's much more expensive. Both filter light though


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## Jp.the.pope (Sep 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't buy this. Here in Colorado people have access to all the above- and what do you know, they like all different kinds!
> 
> By way of personal example, I have access to shatter and rosin that would make your mouth water. I have some, occasionally. The rest of the time I much prefer my flowers.


No joke. I owned a company that made extraction equipment. Had amazing shatter and rosin. I much prefer flower.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 16, 2016)

Not sure if this is thread jumping ...... sorry if it is . But is this even worth looking at?


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## RM3 (Sep 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Not sure if this is thread jumping ...... sorry if it is . But is this even worth looking at? View attachment 3782081 View attachment 3782082


Well this is a thread about adding UV and that light has no UV so ,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Budley Doright (Sep 16, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Well this is a thread about adding UV and that light has no UV so ,,,,,,,,,,,


Sorry.....


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## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Sorry.....


Horses for courses, bring that to the LED forum and you'll get some interest. 

One reason I like my COB LED chips is exactly because they emit no UV radiation. Therefore, they can't cause related damage. Then I'm free to put UVA/UVB specific lighting on their own circuit which can be shut off anytime someone is in they're, on a schedule, whatever.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Horses for courses, bring that to the LED forum and you'll get some interest.
> 
> One reason I like my COB LED chips is exactly because they emit no UV radiation. Therefore, they can't cause related damage. Then I'm free to put UVA/UVB specific lighting on their own circuit which can be shut off anytime someone is in they're, on a schedule, whatever.


Thanks tty! And I need to read more instead of asking random questions....I was high....typically am when I get on here .


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## churchhaze (Sep 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Horses for courses, bring that to the LED forum and you'll get some interest..


Or they'll all tell him it's garbage and to not get it.


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## RM3 (Sep 17, 2016)

yeah, lord knows ya can't can't grow fire less ya gots da lights dem math wizz's say LMAO
gotta fuck dem lumens and get da Umols  
Nobody splain'd it to this poor T5 bud, 
.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 17, 2016)

RM3 said:


> poor T5 bud,


Yeah looks like some seriously poor shat there lmao, just really poor.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Macular degeneration is permanent.


My father for years accused me of being a stoner, when I wasn't, just because I wear polarized sunglasses with uv protection.

His eyes are failing and I tell him all the time "See, that's why I wear them."

I wear them when I open my cab. I have a cfl mounted at the top and I turn the t5 off when I'm working in it.


----------



## Friction1957 (Sep 17, 2016)

RM3 said:


> yeah, lord knows ya can't can't grow fire less ya gots da lights dem math wizz's say LMAO
> gotta fuck dem lumens and get da Umols
> Nobody splain'd it to this poor T5 bud,
> .
> View attachment 3783029


Beautiful. 

thank god you don't have those other potent lights, I just don't think there would be any more room on the bud for all of those extra trichs..............


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## Levradus (Sep 17, 2016)

poor indeed


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## Tyleb173rd (Sep 20, 2016)

Hey RM3...have you ever had your meds lab tested?


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## RM3 (Sep 20, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Hey RM3...have you ever had your meds lab tested?


No, no longer allowed in CO


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## ttystikk (Sep 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> No, no longer allowed in CO


That's about a bunch of bullshit, isn't it? Why isn't 'legal' actually LEGAL?

Of course you know why they did it; so us home growers wouldn't keep embarrassing the 'pros', lmao!


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## bmgnoot (Sep 20, 2016)

that blows my mind. screaming regulate while taking away the ability to regulate it


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## ttystikk (Sep 20, 2016)

bmgnoot said:


> that blows my mind. screaming regulate while taking away the ability to regulate it


That's what happens when you let people who hate the plant get involved in regulating it. Their mission becomes fucking it up for the rest of us, because it's the 'moral' thing to do.

Right wingers. They're the same everywhere.


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## Yodaweed (Sep 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's what happens when you let people who hate the plant get involved in regulating it. Their mission becomes fucking it up for the rest of us, because it's the 'moral' thing to do.
> 
> Right wingers. They're the same everywhere.


It's also the dispensaries screwing over the home growers every chance they can get so you have to buy from them(and pay extra taxes etc). They are getting all these bs laws passed so the dispensaries have all the power, they even reduced plant count totals down to 12 and made caregivers have a max plant count of I believe 32 where I live.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 21, 2016)

Yodaweed said:


> It's also the dispensaries screwing over the home growers every chance they can get so you have to buy from them(and pay extra taxes etc). They are getting all these bs laws passed so the dispensaries have all the power, they even reduced plant count totals down to 12 and made caregivers have a max plant count of I believe 32 where I live.


Fucking EGO at work there for sure


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## ttystikk (Sep 21, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Fucking EGO at work there for sure


Ever notice how the loudest moralizers all seem to have some pretty serious moral and ethical lapses in their own lives? 

Methinks that's not a coincidence.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Ever notice how the loudest moralizers all seem to have some pretty serious moral and ethical lapses in their own lives?
> 
> Methinks that's not a coincidence.


Definitely not a coincidence. My favorite thing to hear is, "Doing it for the kids". Makes me throw up in my mouth a little when I hear that


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## Budley Doright (Sep 21, 2016)

What's going to happen here is a far cry from what was envisioned by most up here me thinks. Legalize means control and control means money..... Big money. I'm thinking our plant count will be none . We are notoriously famous for our false markets....think milk quotas.


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 21, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Legalize means control and control means money..... Big money.


Yep for sure. Fuck a legalize, I want de-regulation


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## Budley Doright (Sep 22, 2016)

I'll just keep doing what I'm doing as I have for more than 2/3rds of my life . I just need to get my hands on a couple of strains of crystally covered goodness like RM's .


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## Vnsmkr (Sep 22, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I'll just keep doing what I'm doing as I have for more than 2/3rds of my life . I just need to get my hands on a couple of strains of crystally covered goodness like RM's .


Same here budley


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## since1991 (Sep 23, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> It's a hell of a lot easier to walk to the shed than the swamp lol. Call me strange but I prefer the taste of hydro grown weed than soil (outdoor), just seems to be a cleaner taste IMO. And yup the Mexicans are making shatter but it's pricey down there as here. They are changing the game to stay in the game. Last run we did (15 years ago) had to send it back cause we were stuck with it and couldn't move it....utter shit .


The mexican farmers are changing the game by razing cartel fields of cannabis and replanting with opium poppies. Believe it.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

Get more money for heroin, why is that surprising?


----------



## Budley Doright (Sep 23, 2016)

since1991 said:


> The mexican farmers are changing the game by razing cartel fields of cannabis and replanting with opium poppies. Believe it.


Oh I do believe, seen it . There is still massive amounts of pot as well, just having a hard time moving it, their hiring BTW .


----------



## since1991 (Sep 23, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Get more money for heroin, why is that surprising?


Next smart move is to legalize and regulate all drugs. Call me crazy. I know opiates are really bad but....think about it for a sec. Do that and the gangsters (including the DEA) will have to get real jobs.


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## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Next smart move is to legalize and regulate all drugs. Call me crazy. I know opiates are really bad but....think about it for a sec. Do that and the gangsters (including the DEA) will have to get real jobs.


We've already done that, or haven't you noticed prescription opioids flooding our streets? 

Oh, you mean you want to make money on them, too? Too bad, go lobby congress. Bring a few hundred million with you.


----------



## since1991 (Sep 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> We've already done that, or haven't you noticed prescription opioids flooding our streets?
> 
> Oh, you mean you want to make money on them, too? Too bad, go lobby congress. Bring a few hundred million with you.


Iam talking opiates. ..coacaine...meth...all of it. Make it legal but regulated. Where treatment for addiction is readily available (moreso than now) but if you relapse so many times you get a card or registry of some type and you can go to a center and get your daily dose. Stop the prison assembly line...the enforcement. ..the cartels and blackmarket...the courts..lawyers...all of it.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Iam talking opiates. ..coacaine...meth...all of it. Make it legal but regulated. Where treatment for addiction is readily available (moreso than now) but if you relapse so many times you get a card or registry of some type and you can go to a center and get your daily dose. Stop the prison assembly line...the enforcement. ..the cartels and blackmarket...the courts..lawyers...all of it.


That will never happen in America, they love the kids and church too fucking much, or is it the church then kids, stupiid fucks. AND prison is too big a business just to end the stupid ass way things are done there...


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

True story, friend of mine from scotland and me were over in the US for work and training. We both turned on the tv and had a laugh at how many fucking tv channels there were dedicating to "christian" tv. Next morning Billy says, fuck sakes VN whats up with all these fucking bible beaters on tv, you mericans are some dumb motherfuckers eh. I said yep, isnt it sickening, ignorance is fucking bliss right on tv.....fucking ignorant


----------



## RM3 (Sep 23, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> That will never happen in America, they love the kids and church too fucking much, or is it the church then kids, stupiid fucks


No, it's the church fucks kids and Merica, but it's a holy fuck so that makes it ok


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 23, 2016)

Some Christians are OK. 

Lot of folks here get along with me and I'm christian.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

there is nothing christian about having your own tv channel taking payments, sorry


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

And Merica is the only place that does that shit, for real


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 23, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> there is nothing christian about having your own tv channel taking payments, sorry


You are right. I don't really do the organized religion thing.

Edit: It depends. Some do great work all around the world.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 23, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Americans are some of the most charitable people and Christian charities do lots of good stuff. And we won't chop your head off for not converting like muslims.


I don't agree with some of the TV stuff. Some I do. Some of those TV outfits feed and help people all around the world.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

Just another form of control, when you're on the outside looking in


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

Teaching people to judge, be racist, fuck all that


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 23, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Just another form of control, when you're on the outside looking in


We could argue back and forth all day. I won't.

I was just making a point. Not all of us Christians fit in that box you have made.


----------



## BobCajun (Sep 23, 2016)

A compound in Rosemary called carnosic acid is very similar to THCA in Cannabis. They have rather similar structures and are both diterpenes and antioxidants. THCA degrades to THC and then to cannabinol, carnosic acid degrades to carnosol. Both have medicinal properties such as anti-cancer. So I thought it interesting when I found that carnosic acid content of Rosemary is increased by UV-B. This seems to support the possibility that THCA production is enhanced by UV-B.

"Apart from the influence of the genetic background, contents in carnosic acid (*1*) may also be modulated by growth conditions (Tounekti and Munné-Bosch, 2012). Recently, Tounekti and Munné-Bosch (2012) have reviewed certain aspects of phenolic diterpene biology, with a particular focus on the physiological, rather than trans-genetic, approaches, to enhancing and improving the phenolic diterpene levels and composition in _Salvia_ and _Rosmarinus_ plants and plant extracts. For instance, authors reported that the English climate favours the production of carnosic acid more than the warmer, more arid environmental conditions found in Mediterranean countries where rosemary and sage are typically found. Furthermore, rosemary plants subjected to enhanced levels of UV-B radiation display higher yields of carnosic acid than non-treated plants. Moreover, water, salinity, intense light, and heat stress seem to negatively affect carnosic acid concentrations. Although stress conditions alone seem to decrease levels in carnosic acid (*1*), when applied together with supplements, they result in high yields in phenolic diterpenes. This was confirmed when low amounts of fertilizer or kinetin were supplemented to plants upon saline stress (Tounekti and Munné-Bosch, 2012)." source


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Iam talking opiates. ..coacaine...meth...all of it. Make it legal but regulated. Where treatment for addiction is readily available (moreso than now) but if you relapse so many times you get a card or registry of some type and you can go to a center and get your daily dose. Stop the prison assembly line...the enforcement. ..the cartels and blackmarket...the courts..lawyers...all of it.


But but but... thems r JAWBS! Yew cain't take away der JAWBS!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Some Christians are OK.
> 
> Lot of folks here get along with me and I'm christian.


The difference is that I don't see you trying to tell anyone else how to live. 

An important distinction. 

I may be atheist, but you will never see me denigrate someone's religion- only what they might do to others in its name.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> But but but... thems r JAWBS! Yew cain't take away der JAWBS!


If you can find it BBC put out a good doco called "The House I Live In".....what an eye opener


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> A compound in Rosemary called carnosic acid is very similar to THCA in Cannabis. They have rather similar structures and are both diterpenes and antioxidants. THCA degrades to THC and then to cannabinol, carnosic acid degrades to carnosol. Both have medicinal properties such as anti-cancer. So I thought it interesting when I found that carnosic acid content of Rosemary is increased by UV-B. This seems to support the possibility that THCA production is enhanced by UV-B.
> 
> "Apart from the influence of the genetic background, contents in carnosic acid (*1*) may also be modulated by growth conditions (Tounekti and Munné-Bosch, 2012). Recently, Tounekti and Munné-Bosch (2012) have reviewed certain aspects of phenolic diterpene biology, with a particular focus on the physiological, rather than trans-genetic, approaches, to enhancing and improving the phenolic diterpene levels and composition in _Salvia_ and _Rosmarinus_ plants and plant extracts. For instance, authors reported that the English climate favours the production of carnosic acid more than the warmer, more arid environmental conditions found in Mediterranean countries where rosemary and sage are typically found. Furthermore, rosemary plants subjected to enhanced levels of UV-B radiation display higher yields of carnosic acid than non-treated plants. Moreover, water, salinity, intense light, and heat stress seem to negatively affect carnosic acid concentrations. Although stress conditions alone seem to decrease levels in carnosic acid (*1*), when applied together with supplements, they result in high yields in phenolic diterpenes. This was confirmed when low amounts of fertilizer or kinetin were supplemented to plants upon saline stress (Tounekti and Munné-Bosch, 2012)." source


Hmmmm... vewwy vewwy intewesting...


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> If you can find it BBC put out a good doco called "The House I Live In".....what an eye opener


BBC recently had an article about how the fundamental currency of prison life in America has shifted from cigarettes to ramen noodles. Might have been the same series.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> BBC recently had an article about how the fundamental currency of prison life in America has shifted from cigarettes to ramen noodles. Might have been the same series.


This is about year or maybe 2 years old


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> The difference is that I don't see you trying to tell anyone else how to live.
> 
> An important distinction.
> 
> I may be atheist, but you will never see me denigrate someone's religion- only what they might do to others in its name.


I can agree with that. 

We have freedom of and from religion. Some people ignore the from part.

I have no right to tell someone how to live.


----------



## RM3 (Sep 23, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> If you can find it BBC put out a good doco called "The House I Live In".....what an eye opener


http://www.thehouseilivein.org/


----------



## Vnsmkr (Sep 23, 2016)

RM3 said:


> http://www.thehouseilivein.org/


Thats the one


----------



## Odin* (Sep 23, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> This seems to support the possibility that THCA production is enhanced by UV-B.


UV-B exposure increases Delta-9-THC. This is a fact.


----------



## BobCajun (Sep 23, 2016)

Since I was interested in carnosic acid I viewed several patents for extraction procedures to see if I could find a good way of extracting THCA, since they're so similar. Well, I did find several informative patents but one which may prove particularly useful is this one. It's a method for making an oleoresin extract, which is analogous to BHO or QUISO, for instance.

But what's new is their discovery that certain percentages of alcohol and water will extract the oleoresin but not the chlorophyll and other undesirables. Then they get the extract by adding more water which then causes it to drop out. But the thing is; the best percentage of alcohol turns out to be only 40-60%, whereas everyone has been using 95%. It said (in a table) that at 40 or 50% ethanol the extract was amber but higher than that it became more and more green. Apparently 50-55% is optimal. The speed of it is also interesting, only 2 minutes stirring at room temp. Not even any heat involved.

Here's the part that explains it, so you don't have to read the whole patent. Just replace "carnosic acid" with "THC acid".



> It has been the surprising result of this invention that carnosic acid is substantially soluble in 40%-60% (and higher) solutions of ethyl alcohol in water and in 60%-80% solutions of methyl alcohol in water but is substantially insoluble in solutions comprising less than 40% of the alcohol. This result is unexpected. These alcohol solutions in water are not sufficiently high in the alcohol content to dissolve green coloring matter that may be present in the original material, but they form very powerful solvents for carnosic acid. Indeed the solvating capacity of the specified concentrations is such that the carnosic acid in the starting material is more than 80% dissolved in 30-60 seconds of mixing at room temperature.
> 
> Extraction solutions containing in excess of 60% ethyl alcohol or 80% methyl alcohol result in the undesirable extraction of green coloring matter together with flavor and aroma compounds and other diluent materials. Extraction solutions containing less than 40% ethyl alcohol or 60% methyl alcohol are not capable of efficient carnosic acid extraction and remove only 60% or less of the original carnosic acid. These low alcohol content extraction solutions allow an oxidative deterioration of the carnosic acid. Within the concentration range of 40%-60% ethyl alcohol and 60%-80% methyl alcohol, over 80% of the carnosic acid is extracted within 60 seconds yet no green coloration and very little flavor and aroma goes into solution.
> 
> ...


----------



## AAjax (Sep 25, 2016)

In my outdoor growing experience a few seeds always seemed to kick it up a notch. Havent gone through the whole thread but interested in what strains you are growing. Always interested what old school strains are kicking about. My personal preff is Mexican sativa's, unfortunately dont have an outdoor growing area availible as some of those take forever to finish and are far better suited to outdoor growing.


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## CannaBruh (Sep 30, 2016)

What does anyone recommend as UV supplementation to 50W of COB LED? Should be able to scale up from a recommendation on 50W.

FWIW, COBs are putting on the frost without the UV, so I'm over here dying to know what is possible with...


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Sep 30, 2016)

10% of overall wattage approximately


----------



## CannaBruh (Sep 30, 2016)

Are there readily available 5-10W options, off the shelf, sure I could google but I want to know what the guys putting out the frost are using.


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Sep 30, 2016)

Agromax pure UV bulbs work great


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Sep 30, 2016)

Probably more wattage than you were looking at though


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## RM3 (Sep 30, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> What does anyone recommend as UV supplementation to 50W of COB LED? Should be able to scale up from a recommendation on 50W.
> 
> FWIW, COBs are putting on the frost without the UV, so I'm over here dying to know what is possible with...


----------



## since1991 (Sep 30, 2016)

RM3 said:


>


I tell ya what...i used to run htg digital plus bulbs before i got into Gavitas and they were in my opinion...way better than the major brands. Ran the hell.outta them for years. Htg hoods suck but ballasts and bulbs are pretty solid. I like thier phat sack 2 and 3 gallon cloth pots too. Couple few items at htg that i like and always buy. Some of the stuff is garbage but alot of it is decent. Good vid.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Sep 30, 2016)

RM3 said:


>


That test is a pure uv bulb against the full spectrum with added uv from horti. 

Would the fair test be the uv+ from htg?


----------



## RM3 (Sep 30, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> That test is a pure uv bulb against the full spectrum with added uv from horti.
> 
> Would the fair test be the uv+ from htg?


yeppers, what they should have done


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## mypassion (Oct 4, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I just love how much you don't get it, how stuck in your mind you seem to be, tis truly entertaining and sad but I still love ya. To think that hundreds of folks just blindly follow me is so laughable. Like I meet em at the door and hand em the Kool Aid
> 
> You should just wait till I get the light and post the grow and see if I'm so wrong ???
> 
> ...


You are the Conspiracy Theory of Cannabis. )


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

mypassion said:


> You are the Conspiracy Theory of Cannabis. )


No, you're just close minded.

Cannabis the industry is crammed to the lid with BULLSHIT, designed to separate the uneducated from their money.

@RM3 hands out candy at the door, all right; joints of his own weed for people to smoke and JUDGE FOR THEMSELVES.

He certainly doesn't claim to be anything special, other than an experienced grower.

If you're so smart, where's your degree in agronomy?


----------



## RM3 (Oct 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No, you're just close minded.
> 
> Cannabis the industry is crammed to the lid with BULLSHIT, designed to separate the uneducated from their money.
> 
> ...


I think he was makin a complement ?


----------



## mypassion (Oct 4, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I think he was makin a complement ?


I was indeed!


----------



## claypipe69 (Oct 4, 2016)

I was lead to believe that the best light to grow anything under is SUNLIGHT does that mean to get the best results under lights a True full spectrum of all the colours of a rainbow would be the ultimate indoor grow light or is that just a pipe dream????????


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## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I think he was makin a complement ?





mypassion said:


> I was indeed!


Well in that case, in the very finest Gilda Radner tradition....

'Never Miiiiiiind!'


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## RM3 (Oct 4, 2016)

claypipe69 said:


> I was lead to believe that the best light to grow anything under is SUNLIGHT does that mean to get the best results under lights a True full spectrum of all the colours of a rainbow would be the ultimate indoor grow light or is that just a pipe dream????????


Tis pretty much true IMO but there are things we can do indoors to enhance things a bit and the sunshine is not the same everywhere


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## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

claypipe69 said:


> I was lead to believe that the best light to grow anything under is SUNLIGHT does that mean to get the best results under lights a True full spectrum of all the colours of a rainbow would be the ultimate indoor grow light or is that just a pipe dream????????


Sunlight can burn plants, it can be too intense, it can be obscured, you can't control the cycle timing, and the HVAC cost to climate control greenhouses can get straight out of control. 

In my humble opinion, sunlight sucks next to modern LED.


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## claypipe69 (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks for the clarification I am running a LED 300 w cheapo it has uv an ir included 
I think it is only about 220 w really also 3 panels there only 45 w each.


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## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

claypipe69 said:


> Thanks for the clarification I am running a LED 300 w cheapo it has uv an ir included
> I think it is only about 220 w really also 3 panels there only 45 w each.


Full spectrum LED sources such as the CXB3590 COB LED I'm using right now are unequivocally the finest lights I've ever grown under. I'd suggest 3000K for best blooming performance.


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## mr. childs (Oct 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Full spectrum LED sources such as the CXB3590 COB LED I'm using right now are unequivocally the finest lights I've ever grown under. I'd suggest 3000K for best blooming performance.


plc cxp 250 + 2ft agro pure uv = gave up the horti super hps & galaxy ballast...


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## claypipe69 (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks for the heads up I ll check em out for my next buy up sadly that wont be for a while though.


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## Vnsmkr (Oct 4, 2016)

If sunlight sucked you wouldnt be adding UVB in your grow rooms to try and mimic it ttystikk come on. Sunlight is number 1 buddy unless you live in a fucking cave


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## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> If sunlight sucked you wouldnt be adding UVB in your grow rooms to try and mimic it ttystikk come on. Sunlight is number 1 buddy unless you live in a fucking cave


I didn't say the spectrum of sunlight was poor, but I stand by my list of reasons why I like indoor lighting better.

And I've yet to add UV to my growroom lighting. No one has complained.


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## Vnsmkr (Oct 4, 2016)

I'm just saying, I dont walk into a grow room and feel energized from LED's. The sun only does that


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## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> If sunlight sucked you wouldnt be adding UVB in your grow rooms to try and mimic it ttystikk come on. Sunlight is number 1 buddy unless you live in a fucking cave


But we DO live in caves.



Vnsmkr said:


> I'm just saying, I dont walk into a grow room and feel energized from LED's. The sun only does that


Speak for yourself. All of my friends and I certainly do.


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## Vnsmkr (Oct 4, 2016)

Its not the same energy, sorry


----------



## testiclees (Oct 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> But we DO live in caves.
> 
> 
> 
> Speak for yourself. All of my friends and I certainly do.


I love cxb"s and v29s but i agree w dude. I'm not into spending time under them. Ive got an agro max as well, reminds me of radiation therapy, sickening.


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## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Its not the same energy, sorry


Just wait until you've basked in the glow of 5400W of COB LED- in February in Colorado- before you make any final decisions.


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## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

testiclees said:


> I love cxb"s and v29s but i agree w dude. I'm not into spending time under them. Ive got an agro max as well, reminds me of radiation therapy, sickening.


I wouldn't suggest spending any time under strong UV sources at all, with one exception; if you have psoriasis, UVB is a very effective treatment.


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## testiclees (Oct 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I wouldn't suggest spending any time under strong UV sources at all, with one exception; if you have psoriasis, UVB is a very effective treatment.



I agree with leprechaun that agromax is a potent fucking bulb. I wonder if it's so synergistic for him because of the t5's he uses??? In my flower room the plants respond with far more love to the hortilux pure uv jawn.


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## CryBby247 (Oct 4, 2016)

Spectrum tells you everything less is not more overall take away spectrum you take away a quality 
I am happy you are happy with leds but less is not more


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## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

CryBby247 said:


> Spectrum tells you everything less is not more overall take away spectrum you take away a quality
> I am happy you are happy with leds but less is not more


COB LED is a broad spectrum light source.

While they do not emit any UV, I see this as an advantage because people will work under these lights and they don't need the exposure.

You see, now you can create a dedicated circuit with UV specific lighting that might even be a lot stronger than naturally occurring conditions and run it when it's most advantageous- and not at all when people are around.

Note that never once did I say that COB LED spectrum was superior; I listed my reasons and I stand by them. That said, the safety and performance potential of a separate circuit cannot be overlooked.

My grandmother got macular degeneration just from a lifetime at high altitude living in Colorado, which is tiny compared to the UV output of most horticultural lighting. I just don't think growing frosty nugs is a cause worth going blind for, especially if the fix is this simple.


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## CryBby247 (Oct 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> COB LED is a broad spectrum light source.
> 
> While they do not emit any UV, I see this as an advantage because people will work under these lights and they don't need the exposure.
> 
> ...


Yup of course it's not worth it ya need to be careful with uv as well as any focused high intensity light both will mess you up. Uv is just sneaker in that even dim it can damage


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## Odin* (Oct 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> But we DO live in caves.


Very true, if speaking in general, and referring to "The Allegory of".


Regarding "Sunlight" VS "Artificial", it's sunlight all the way. However, the environment associated with "Artificial" lends it the nod for our purposes. The controlled environment makes all the difference. That, and although "Sunlight" is superior, it's varied intensity throughout the day (low intensity is the issue morning and evening, high intensity wouldn't be an issue with indoor supplementation/control), it's "inconsistency" through the seasons, and limited ability to manipulate long/short days (relative to the level of control indoors) throughout the year hinders the suns use (6 to 1x (e+c).

Were we able to utilize the full intensity of Summer Solstice sunlight in a complimentary indoor environment, "Magic" would happen.


----------



## RM3 (Oct 6, 2016)

Odin* said:


> Very true, if speaking in general, and referring to "The Allegory of".
> 
> 
> Regarding "Sunlight" VS "Artificial", it's sunlight all the way. However, the environment associated with "Artificial" lends it the nod for our purposes. The controlled environment makes all the difference. That, and although "Sunlight" is superior, it's varied intensity throughout the day (low intensity is the issue morning and evening, high intensity wouldn't be an issue with indoor supplementation/control), it's "inconsistency" through the seasons, and limited ability to manipulate long/short days (relative to the level of control indoors) throughout the year hinders the suns use (6 to 1x (e+c).
> ...


It actually does, but most of us can't afford it  

http://www.parans.com/index-en.cfm


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## RM3 (Oct 6, 2016)




----------



## RM3 (Oct 6, 2016)




----------



## churchhaze (Oct 6, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Its not the same energy, sorry


Natural photons are different than artificial photons?


----------



## NewI (Nov 14, 2016)

RM3 said:


> No, of course not. But one merely needs to look at the timeline to see it.
> 
> No, there is no hard data
> 
> ...


Haha it just hit me lol! I may be to young but I def smoked some of this. I once bought 3g for me and some friends, more than 10y ago. We still remember it to be the best weed we ever had.


----------



## Fastslappy (Nov 14, 2016)

the no ceiling is the tip off


----------



## shorelineOG (Nov 14, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> the no ceiling is the tip off


The good Mexican weed has a ceiling, you get scary paranoid and freak out if you smoke too much. Same weed that makes you laugh and creative causes paranoia in high doses as opposed to indica that makes you sleep.


----------



## Fastslappy (Nov 14, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> The good Mexican weed has a ceiling, you get scary paranoid and freak out if you smoke too much. Same weed that makes you laugh and creative causes paranoia in high doses as opposed to indica that makes you sleep.


agreed & breeding can soften that paranoid into soaring feelings of well being


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 14, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> The good Mexican weed has a ceiling, you get scary paranoid and freak out if you smoke too much. Same weed that makes you laugh and creative causes paranoia in high doses as opposed to indica that makes you sleep.


Too much Vietnamese will put you to sleep, been knocked out once or twice.


----------



## Fastslappy (Nov 14, 2016)

the old columbo gold was instantaneously red eyed & feeling warm all over , more ya smaoked the betta ya felt
u could feel yer eyes go red on the 1st hit


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 14, 2016)

Fastslappy said:


> u could feel yer eyes go red on the 1st hit


I know of a bunch like that. Some here does it, some in India, Angola. Its funny hearing someone describe it that way as I have said that many times myself


----------



## NewI (Nov 14, 2016)

All this is breathtaking. I want the "before I was born" weed!! 
But where can I find some good genetics? Internet searches for a good strain SUCK. All smoke reports on every strain is 2h, 3h cmmon.. I'm only high when I puff from the joint. LOL ... not lol, more like QQ


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 15, 2016)

Jah will be online shortly where these and other quality genetics will be available. Instagram @jahearthcollective420


----------



## NewI (Nov 15, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Jah will be online shortly where these and other quality genetics will be available. Instagram @jahearthcollective420


How someone buys/sells on IG beats me
.. can't understand it. 
Heart is all I know


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 15, 2016)

NewI said:


> How someone buys/sells on IG beats me
> .. can't understand it.
> Heart is all I know


IG is advertising, you dont buy and sell anything "through" IG, but there's info there


----------



## Friction1957 (Nov 15, 2016)

NewI said:


> All this is breathtaking. I want the "before I was born" weed!!
> But where can I find some good genetics? Internet searches for a good strain SUCK. All smoke reports on every strain is 2h, 3h cmmon.. I'm only high when I puff from the joint. LOL ... not lol, more like QQ


Send @RM3 a PM, he's got the real thing


----------



## bmgnoot (Nov 15, 2016)

too much myrcene will put you to sleep


----------



## NewI (Nov 16, 2016)

I bought a t5 lamp for uvb ^^. When is it best to use uv on veg and how long? 
@Friction1957 thanks for the suggestion! Would love to grow the real deal.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 16, 2016)

NewI said:


> When is it best to use uv on veg and how long?


As with all things there is not one answer to this question,,, all gardens are different and there are several different bulbs with each being used differently


----------



## NewI (Nov 16, 2016)

RM3 said:


> As with all things there is not one answer to this question,,, all gardens are different and there are several different bulbs with each being used differently


As with all things, right. Thanks!


----------



## Big_Lou (Nov 16, 2016)

Schadenfreude said:


> Or just do like this clown and email folks here at riu acting like your a broke father who can never get ahead in life or whatever sob story he uses so he can get you to send him grass or money, pretty sure that's frowned upon here but as long as you are here 24/7 kissing ass vnsmkr I'm sure you'll fool PLENTY here, At the end of the day your just another clown trying to take advantage of whomever will let you! Sorry but ive seen enough!
> where's all your harvest pics in your grow thread? plenty of weak ass plants of your rooftop but no real harvests eh? weird, But hey if they are stupid enough to feed your scamming ass then I say let em feed! You shouldn't have any issues finding work in Vietnam asshole just find a used car lot.............you'll fit in nicely!


Reported as (_obvious_) war sock account.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 16, 2016)

RM3 said:


> As with all things there is not one answer to this question,,, all gardens are different and there are several different bulbs with each being used differently


Didn't you mean to say you don't know and you burned your plants and yourself recently pretending you do?


----------



## RM3 (Nov 16, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Didn't you mean to say you don't know and you burned your plants and yourself recently pretending you do?


Nope, said exactly what I meant based on the question itself, had he mentioned a specific bulb my response might have been different? 

Hope you're feelin better


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 16, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Nope, said exactly what I meant based on the question itself, had he mentioned a specific bulb my response might have been different?
> 
> Hope you're feelin better


Nice try.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Nice try.


Your constant hounding does not make you look better/wiser/credible. 

So what's your gripe with him?


----------



## NewI (Nov 16, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Didn't you mean to say you don't know and you burned your plants and yourself recently pretending you do?


I understant, it's ok!


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 16, 2016)

Big_Lou said:


> Reported as (_obvious_) war sock account.


Just saw that now, but some people obviously cant read fuck through whats posted here. Way off the mark asshole, way fucking off the mark......
The same dumb fuck that wrote all that was messaging me nonstop begging me to send him beans. I even helped the cunt out and had a close friend send him a large pack to get him going for the year.
Keeps getting ejected from here and he just creates a new name to troll: VTIM'kmaq, mangobiche, Schadenfreude.

Edit: The funny thing is, ignorant fucks like this shouldnt be handing out their address to people then talk shit about them in the same breath. Truly ignorant in all sense of the word


----------



## Lucky Luke (Nov 16, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Just saw that now, but some people obviously cant read fuck through whats posted here. Way off the mark asshole, way fucking off the mark......
> The same dumb fuck that wrote all that was messaging me nonstop begging me to send him beans. I even helped the cunt out and had a close friend send him a large pack to get him going for the year.
> Keeps getting ejected from here and he just creates a new name to troll: VTIM'kmaq, mangobiche, Schadenfreude.
> 
> Edit: The funny thing is, ignorant fucks like this shouldnt be handing out their address to people then talk shit about them in the same breath. Truly ignorant in all sense of the word


Some mothers do ave em..and his did.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 16, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> Some mothers do ave em..and his did.


Mental instability could have been caused by being dropped on his head I suppose


----------



## Lucky Luke (Nov 17, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Mental instability could have been caused by being dropped on his head I suppose


The doctor may have slapped his head when he was born instead of his ass.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Your constant hounding does not make you look better/wiser/credible.
> 
> So what's your gripe with him?


What constant hounding? I have been a participating member of his website for the last 3 months. I would never form an opinion or give information without extensive research. 

My gripe on this UV thread is that he has no idea what he is doing and has not admited how bad he did while pretending he does. 

My other gripes with him are all going to come out in the open in time. If he was half the man he pretends to be he would have already apologized to everyone on his website for what he did to endanger my privacy and security while I was a member there. 

If he could do what he did just because I made him upset from disagreeing with him imagine if he was pressured by the authorities. 

And now you get to tell everyone on all the forums what you did @RM3 

And you could have at least contacted our mutual patient back. Even though he doesn't think your weed is anywhere near as good as you say or even trippy at all he was willing to try it again to see if it would at least help with his condition. It didn't the first time but he was willing to try again. 

And just because he gave a report that disagrees with yours about your good but not great weed you didn't even return his contact. 

He is very insightful the patient that came to your house @RM3. He saw right through you. I wish I had but growing great meds is my life and I still value all experiences I get for the chance to learn something.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 18, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> And now you get to tell everyone on all the forums what you did @RM3
> 
> And you could have at least contacted our mutual patient back. *Even though he doesn't think your weed is anywhere near as good as you say or even trippy at all he was willing to try it again to see if it would at least help with his condition. It didn't the first time but he was willing to try again. *
> 
> ...


Direct quote from your friends email ,,,,,,,,

"
Your herbs, very heady and long lasting for sure...

The Cob...very tasty...at times i believe I can taste the influence of the husk. 

Would def grab some more...next time I go down to visit my Mum. "

we actually exchange several emails, so I'm not sure where your delusions come from? You off your meds again? Get that ppo settled? I can share more if you really want a war?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 18, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Direct quote from your friends email ,,,,,,,,
> 
> "
> Your herbs, very heady and long lasting for sure...
> ...


It's not worth it. Can't please everyone, I felt better the minute I stopped trying.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 18, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> What constant hounding? I have been a participating member of his website for the last 3 months. I would never form an opinion or give information without extensive research.
> 
> My gripe on this UV thread is that he has no idea what he is doing and has not admited how bad he did while pretending he does.
> 
> ...


So you got in a snit with him and now you want to air the dirty laundry everywhere? 

Whatever happened to working together, and solving the problem in good faith? 

MY gripe is that I think you're both good guys and this will serve no one's ends.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Just saw that now, but some people obviously cant read fuck through whats posted here. Way off the mark asshole, way fucking off the mark......
> The same dumb fuck that wrote all that was messaging me nonstop begging me to send him beans. I even helped the cunt out and had a close friend send him a large pack to get him going for the year.
> Keeps getting ejected from here and he just creates a new name to troll: VTIM'kmaq, mangobiche, Schadenfreude.
> 
> Edit: The funny thing is, ignorant fucks like this shouldnt be handing out their address to people then talk shit about them in the same breath. Truly ignorant in all sense of the word


I know mofos crazy enough to go knock on someone's door if that happened.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 18, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> What constant hounding? I have been a participating member of his website for the last 3 months. I would never form an opinion or give information without extensive research.
> 
> My gripe on this UV thread is that he has no idea what he is doing and has not admited how bad he did while pretending he does.
> 
> ...


So you mean to tell me you actually know where rm3 lives and you are airing it here.

Fucking a'. Be a man and go talk face to face.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 18, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> So you mean to tell me you actually know where rm3 lives and you are airing it here.
> 
> Fucking a'. Be a man and go talk face to face.


No, he used to live in Colorado and has a friend here that visited after others had reported that CTF helped with their tinnitus


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 18, 2016)

RM3 said:


> No, he used to live in Colorado and has a friend here that visited after others had reported that CTF helped with their tinnitus


Ah, ok. Sounds like dude is happy.

Maybe the guy just agreed with MImed beef with you but secretly still buy or order from you.

You know how some are. Placate instead of being upfront and honest.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 18, 2016)

I don't mean talk face to face to mean fighting. I'm just saying I have knocked on doors to say my peace without knowing if it would lead to a fight. If there is a problem you can be a man and confront it without violence.


----------



## Friction1957 (Nov 18, 2016)

Gosh, it's weed. Personally I love growing it. It makes me feel calm and happy. Some folks like A and some folks like B. At the end of the day what does it really matter? Some folks get along, some don't. There are people that I've encountered that I don't trust what they say about growing, and some that I look forward to hearing what they say. The ones I don't think know what they are doing I've never said a word to, nor would I. Hell even what they share as their experience I'm grateful for. To be honest I think it's pretty awesome that ANYONE gives enough of a fuck to make any sort of suggestion, even ones I disagree with. In today's world so full of hate and mistrust, just seems to me not to be needed with growing. When did people forget that this was fun? 

There is an element of self expression to this, it isn't just science, or nutes, or genetics, or environment. It's all that and more. That inner peace you feel when you just nail it and the plants are happy and excelling. At some level it's about the joy of growing, about the pure fun of watching something move from a tiny seed to a well stuffed bowl. Sure "good pot" is nice. But good pot for one is ditch weed to another. Personally seems to me we're really all on the same side. Just sometimes that bit seems to be forgotten.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 18, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Ah, ok. Sounds like dude is happy.
> 
> Maybe the guy just agreed with MImed beef with you but secretly still buy or order from you.
> 
> You know how some are. Placate instead of being upfront and honest.


No. He just wanted to make sure and give Rm3 the benefit of the doubt. He has decided to have his shipped from Michigan rather than what you suggest. 

And @RM3 owes everyone invited to his site an explanation at least for what he did. None of you will defend him if he is honest. He is not.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 18, 2016)

Friction1957 said:


> Gosh, it's weed. Personally I love growing it. It makes me feel calm and happy. Some folks like A and some folks like B. At the end of the day what does it really matter? Some folks get along, some don't. There are people that I've encountered that I don't trust what they say about growing, and some that I look forward to hearing what they say. The ones I don't think know what they are doing I've never said a word to, nor would I. Hell even what they share as their experience I'm grateful for. To be honest I think it's pretty awesome that ANYONE gives enough of a fuck to make any sort of suggestion, even ones I disagree with. In today's world so full of hate and mistrust, just seems to me not to be needed with growing. When did people forget that this was fun?
> 
> There is an element of self expression to this, it isn't just science, or nutes, or genetics, or environment. It's all that and more. That inner peace you feel when you just nail it and the plants are happy and excelling. At some level it's about the joy of growing, about the pure fun of watching something move from a tiny seed to a well stuffed bowl. Sure "good pot" is nice. But good pot for one is ditch weed to another. Personally seems to me we're really all on the same side. Just sometimes that bit seems to be forgotten.


What I am upset with Rm3 about has nothing to do with the stuff you wrote here. And you would be as upset as me knowing your history brother. I really liked you and the group. It's him that's the fraud. And you all blindly defend someone who is not true.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 18, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> No. He just wanted to make sure and give Rm3 the benefit of the doubt. He has decided to have his shipped from Michigan rather than what you suggest.
> 
> And @RM3 owes everyone invited to his site an explanation at least for what he did. None of you will defend him if he is honest. He is not.


I actually started a thread and told everyone (at my place) what happened (without details such as quotes and names that were mentioned) and lots of folks posted in it and it is pretty much settled.

I would prefer not to air it here, pretty sure no one here cares ?


----------



## juman (Nov 18, 2016)

MMG you seem to be throwing around cryptic information to illicit fear. I got no ill will towards ya man, you've seemed like a good dude but your recent behavior has made me question things. I've met RM3 on a number of occasions and have even went on a campout with him, he's never given me a reason to distrust him. Is he a bit odd? (and Rid I say this with love ) Sure he is! But so are most of us, he's not doing anything malicious, evil or dickish...he's just growing weed and sharing his journey. 

As someone who's let forums get to them, let it go man, move on, concentrate on your own life and well being, it's more important than arguing on forums, 'ear.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 18, 2016)

juman said:


> MMG you seem to be throwing around cryptic information to illicit fear. I got no ill will towards ya man, you've seemed like a good dude but your recent behavior has made me question things. I've met RM3 on a number of occasions and have even went on a campout with him, he's never given me a reason to distrust him. Is he a bit odd? (and Rid I say this with love ) Sure he is! But so are most of us, he's not doing anything malicious, evil or dickish...he's just growing weed and sharing his journey.
> 
> As someone who's let forums get to them, let it go man, move on, concentrate on your own life and well being, it's more important than arguing on forums, 'ear.


Hey buddy! I didn't even know you were here lol

Good words, life is too short.


----------



## juman (Nov 18, 2016)

I don't tend to frequent here too often but know some folks that post journals here so some good reading. This place is too big for me .


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 18, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I know mofos crazy enough to go knock on someone's door if that happened.


I do too, if they are on the same continent....


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 18, 2016)

Friction1957 said:


> Gosh, it's weed. Personally I love growing it. It makes me feel calm and happy. Some folks like A and some folks like B. At the end of the day what does it really matter? Some folks get along, some don't. There are people that I've encountered that I don't trust what they say about growing, and some that I look forward to hearing what they say. The ones I don't think know what they are doing I've never said a word to, nor would I. Hell even what they share as their experience I'm grateful for. To be honest I think it's pretty awesome that ANYONE gives enough of a fuck to make any sort of suggestion, even ones I disagree with. In today's world so full of hate and mistrust, just seems to me not to be needed with growing. When did people forget that this was fun?
> 
> There is an element of self expression to this, it isn't just science, or nutes, or genetics, or environment. It's all that and more. That inner peace you feel when you just nail it and the plants are happy and excelling. At some level it's about the joy of growing, about the pure fun of watching something move from a tiny seed to a well stuffed bowl. Sure "good pot" is nice. But good pot for one is ditch weed to another. Personally seems to me we're really all on the same side. Just sometimes that bit seems to be forgotten.


Thats some truth there ^


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 18, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I do too, if they are on the same continent....


I do if the mission is to talk shit out rather than start it.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 18, 2016)

Maybe we don't always know it, but its always about the joy of growing.....Even me, with my shitty little plants on my roof to which I never show my harvests


----------



## DCobeen (Nov 18, 2016)

I agree and say life is too short to stress about stuff like what happened. Move on and be happy smoke a fatty get baked and laugh with friends. Go water plants talk to them a bit and go smoke another fatty. Take pics show off your grow while laughing and having fun. I had fun yesterday after we got past this issue and we laughed talked and smoked some dam good weed. That is what makes me want to do it again. Knowing a friend can move past what pisses them off as we are not young ones anymore so we have to let it go to keep our sanity. Shit I am Scottish Irish/Indian/ Norwegian and Chek so I know the blood can get boiling and want to kill but I have to calm myself and tell myself I am better than this. Take a few puffs and swear at exhaling ect. If I dont release it I cant sleep right at all. AGain life is to short to let something this small get in the way of having fun and laughing.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I do if the mission is to talk shit out rather than start it.


I know both types and though I am much more calm these days people like that shouldn't provoke, just because they never know what's on the other side, or who those same people might know close by.


----------



## Flowki (Nov 18, 2016)

Why is 50 shades of green not a strain?.

Puts a whole new twist on lst.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 18, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> No. He just wanted to make sure and give Rm3 the benefit of the doubt. He has decided to have his shipped from Michigan rather than what you suggest.
> 
> And @RM3 owes everyone invited to his site an explanation at least for what he did. None of you will defend him if he is honest. He is not.





MichiganMedGrower said:


> What I am upset with Rm3 about has nothing to do with the stuff you wrote here. And you would be as upset as me knowing your history brother. I really liked you and the group. It's him that's the fraud. And you all blindly defend someone who is not true.


Either way you are annoying the fuck out of me.

Everything you are claiming is hearsay. Not admissible in a court of law and irrelevant to me.

Now put your big boy pants and do one of two things. You obliviously have a way to contact rm3. So either take it up with personally or quit pussy footing around tell everyone why you are mad.

Damn man.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I do if the mission is to talk shit out rather than start it.


I agree. I wont lie though. Sometimes violence is necessary. I'm not talking killing per say, I just mean good ole fisticuffs. As evident in the pressure washer story. I guarantee that boy learned responsibility for his actions.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 18, 2016)

Flowki said:


> Why is 50 shades of green not a strain?.
> 
> Puts a whole new twist on lst.


Tie them up, tie them down... to the trellis.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 18, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I agree. I wont lie though. Sometimes violence is necessary. I'm not talking killing per say, I just mean good ole fisticuffs. As evident in the pressure washer story. I guarantee that boy learned responsibility for his actions.


A somewhat different situation and indeed he got what was coming to him.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> A somewhat different situation and indeed he got what was coming to him.


I know it is different. Depending on the veracity of MImeds claim would determine the correct response. 

To me, in the past, MImed is a shit starter. I take what he says with a grain of salt.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 18, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I know it is different. Depending on the veracity of MImeds claim would determine the correct response.
> 
> To me, in the past, MImed is a shit starter. I take what he says with a grain of salt.


Maybe his qualifying medical condition is TBI (traumatic brain injury) because his impulse control seems a bit impaired. 
Then again, I've said many things I now regret. 
A lot of times, I am at my worst on RIU when other shit in my life is pissing me off. 
Is that a bit childish? 
Probably. 
It is what it is, and I bet I'm not the only one.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 18, 2016)

juman said:


> MMG you seem to be throwing around cryptic information to illicit fear. I got no ill will towards ya man, you've seemed like a good dude but your recent behavior has made me question things. I've met RM3 on a number of occasions and have even went on a campout with him, he's never given me a reason to distrust him. Is he a bit odd? (and Rid I say this with love ) Sure he is! But so are most of us, he's not doing anything malicious, evil or dickish...he's just growing weed and sharing his journey.
> 
> As someone who's let forums get to them, let it go man, move on, concentrate on your own life and well being, it's more important than arguing on forums, 'ear.


He obviously has not been honest about what he did. Or at least he has tailored his story to show what he wants to. But he will always do everything according to his agenda. 

I understand you like him. He didn't fuck with you like he did me. And he didn't ignore your sick friend that he agreed to help. And it is only because the sick friend did not give a favorable report on the supposedly amazing Rm3 weed. But he felt it fair to give it a second try.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 18, 2016)

This isnt the place to keep ranting and ranting and ranting.....people get put on the ignore list for that


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 18, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I actually started a thread and told everyone (at my place) what happened (without details such as quotes and names that were mentioned) and lots of folks posted in it and it is pretty much settled.
> 
> I would prefer not to air it here, pretty sure no one here cares ?


Apparently from this thread and my inbox you didn't bother telling the whole truth. But my experience with you is you would never answer a question that might make you look wrong or bad. 

Lots of people seem to care. So admit what you did wrong.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 18, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Apparently from this thread and my inbox you didn't bother telling the whole truth. But my experience with you is you would never answer a question that might make you look wrong or bad.
> 
> Lots of people seem to care. So admit what you did wrong.


All that anger is bad for your health. It will also drain you of energy. 
It looks like a lot of people like you and respect your ability as a grower. 
Just let it go...


----------



## NewI (Nov 19, 2016)

Had a UV question... nevermind...


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 19, 2016)

NewI said:


> Had a UV question... nevermind...


'bout a pound


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2016)

NewI said:


> Had a UV question... nevermind...


Please share- the thread derail could stand to be derailed.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 19, 2016)

For those that think UV is a waste of time,,,,,,,,,,

feel free to share pics of your non uv buds that just finished week 4 of flower ,,,,,

See how it compares to this one 
.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 19, 2016)

Lizard lights work fine for small grows:
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Intense-Compact-Fluorescent/dp/B00B4ZRXSW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


----------



## NewI (Nov 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Please share- the thread derail could stand to be derailed.


Saw some of R photos with vege plants showing trics and it was stated that dew to uv. 100% true? I mean if we pop 2 seeds and we expose one to uv and the other not... ?


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 19, 2016)

NewI said:


> Saw some of R photos with vege plants showing trics and it was stated that dew to uv. 100% true? I mean if we pop 2 seeds and we expose one to uv and the other not... ?


It would be an interesting experiment. Very possible it's just genetics, but if anything external can make cannabis pop trichomes, it's UV.
Exposing plants to UV while they are in veg will help them tolerate higher levels during flower. I'm pretty sure MH emits UV if you run it bare bulb.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 19, 2016)

RM3 said:


> For those that think UV is a waste of time,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> feel free to share pics of your non uv buds that just finished week 4 of flower ,,,,,
> 
> ...


Anyone with access to the Internet can read that proper uv exposure in grows has added up to 5% total THC In some grows. 

But here is Hortilux Super HPS grown bud with virtually no UV at all and through a glass sealed hood. 

Sorry no week 4 pic. Just 3 and 5. 



  

Looks to be filling in much better than yours too. 

Genetics determine most of the frost. But the wattage determines the yield. 

I am told yours is not as potent either. Keep pretending you are doing something other than helping a plant grow. You are making up most of the rest.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 19, 2016)

Here we go again...


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Anyone with access to the Internet can read that proper uv exposure in grows has added up to 5% total THC In some grows.
> 
> But here is Hortilux Super HPS grown bud with virtually no UV at all and through a glass sealed hood.
> 
> ...


I know you love him and all, but get off his nuts already. Your PDA is unseemly.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2016)

NewI said:


> Saw some of R photos with vege plants showing trics and it was stated that dew to uv. 100% true? I mean if we pop 2 seeds and we expose one to uv and the other not... ?


I've seen plenty of seedlings and those under UV always have frost. Plants getting a good regimen of UV also show more frost.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 19, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I know you love him and all, but get off his nuts already. Your PDA is unseemly.


Dont know what ya'll are talking about, I must have all these people on ignore already....beating a fucking dead horse with a stick, fucking ridiculous


----------



## Odin* (Nov 19, 2016)

RM3 said:


> For those that think UV is a waste of time,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> feel free to share pics of your non uv buds that just finished week 4 of flower ,,,,,
> 
> ...



Just finished 3. DGOG, 23 days.







Not even close to my frostiest strain, but different strains express different traits within different time frames.


That being said, not in any way trying to contradict the "UVb exposure=increased THC" argument. As I've said before, UVb exposure increases Delta-9 THC. Indubitable fact.


----------



## Odin* (Nov 19, 2016)

NewI said:


> Saw some of R photos with vege plants showing trics and it was stated that dew to uv. 100% true? I mean if we pop 2 seeds and we expose one to uv and the other not... ?



Also wanted to mention that early trich's is strain dependent. I had several Sour Sunset's (GSC dominant) throw early trichs under an old 20w aquarium bulb.







Same plant, earlier.


----------



## NewI (Nov 20, 2016)

Odin* said:


> Also wanted to mention that early trich's is strain dependent. I had several Sour Sunset's (GSC dominant) throw early trichs under an old 20w aquarium bulb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking fantastic. At what height you keep the uv ?


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

Odin* said:


> Also wanted to mention that early trich's is strain dependent. I had several Sour Sunset's (GSC dominant) throw early trichs under an old 20w aquarium bulb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True. It's also stress dependent. I had a room go cold on me while unprepared and all the young plants showed trichomes like you have here. And then the inevitable purpling and droop from the cold basement floor crippling the roots. All different strains were down there.


----------



## hillbill (Nov 20, 2016)

I thought increased frost which I had long ago from Mastercolor cmh retrofits may have been from UV but I got the same effect under blurple but very tiny buds. I know that cmh emitted UV from several welder flash incidents. I also know the LEDs had none.

Now in a year of flowering with cobs, same strains have more frost than ever, and no UV. I have a suspicion that the plants react to increased deep blues because in millions of years of adaptations, when these deep blues are intense, the slightly shorter UV wavelengths are also present at harmful levels. If so, increased blues would signal the plant to take defensive action.

Just thinkin' at 6:21 AM.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

hillbill said:


> I thought increased frost which I had long ago from Mastercolor cmh retrofits may have been from UV but I got the same effect under blurple but very tiny buds. I know that cmh emitted UV from several welder flash incidents. I also know the LEDs had none.
> 
> Now in a year of flowering with cobs, same strains have more frost than ever, and no UV. I have a suspicion that the plants react to increased deep blues because in millions of years of adaptations, when these deep blues are intense, the slightly shorter UV wavelengths are also present at harmful levels. If so, increased blues would signal the plant to take defensive action.
> 
> Just thinkin' at 6:21 AM.


Been sayin this for years, tis deep blue that grows trics, UV increases potency


----------



## NewI (Nov 20, 2016)

hillbill said:


> I thought increased frost which I had long ago from Mastercolor cmh retrofits may have been from UV but I got the same effect under blurple but very tiny buds. I know that cmh emitted UV from several welder flash incidents. I also know the LEDs had none.
> 
> Now in a year of flowering with cobs, same strains have more frost than ever, and no UV. I have a suspicion that the plants react to increased deep blues because in millions of years of adaptations, when these deep blues are intense, the slightly shorter UV wavelengths are also present at harmful levels. If so, increased blues would signal the plant to take defensive action.
> 
> Just thinkin' at 6:21 AM.


RM states that UV gives the trics a different profile (potency), witch it is logical.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

University of Utah has published much data on exact plant processes for individual light frequencies. It is all out there to read. There is no mystery. Uv was responsible for a 4% increase in total cannabanoids and added blue light up to 50% to red showed increased health, vigor and cannabanoid content as well. It was previously thought that 1 third to 2 thirds blue light was the best gain but that test did not include marijuana at the University of Michigan.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)




----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

Data is repeatable. Your opinion is just an opinion.


----------



## NewI (Nov 20, 2016)

Would to much blue stress the plant? H


MichiganMedGrower said:


> University of Utah has published much data on exact plant processes for individual light frequencies. It is all out there to read. There is no mystery. Uv was responsible for a 4% increase in total cannabanoids and added blue light up to 50% to red showed increased health, vigor and cannabanoid content as well. It was previously thought that 1 third to 2 thirds blue light was the best gain but that test did not include marijuana at the University of Michigan.


Can you link that page? I would bever get there on my own lol


----------



## Grandpapy (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Data is repeatable. Your opinion is just an opinion.


You must of missed the part where he said he tried HID'S a few times, and did not do well in his "environment".

I'd love to run without a scrubber.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

Odin* said:


> Also wanted to mention that early trich's is strain dependent. I had several Sour Sunset's (GSC dominant) throw early trichs under an old 20w aquarium bulb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You do know most aquarium bulbs have UV, right?


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

Grandpapy said:


> You must of missed the part where he said he tried HID'S a few times, and did not do well in his "environment".
> 
> I'd love to run without a scrubber.


I think he just never got good with HPS. It's easier to grow under t-5's. I didn't miss anything. I just spent months reading his "books".


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

hillbill said:


> I thought increased frost which I had long ago from Mastercolor cmh retrofits may have been from UV but I got the same effect under blurple but very tiny buds. I know that cmh emitted UV from several welder flash incidents. I also know the LEDs had none.
> 
> Now in a year of flowering with cobs, same strains have more frost than ever, and no UV. I have a suspicion that the plants react to increased deep blues because in millions of years of adaptations, when these deep blues are intense, the slightly shorter UV wavelengths are also present at harmful levels. If so, increased blues would signal the plant to take defensive action.
> 
> Just thinkin' at 6:21 AM.


I like this line of thinking, seems to fit the facts pretty well. 

Part of my results with COB LED are due to more light intensity. Same watts, double the output.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

Grandpapy said:


> You must of missed the part where he said he tried HID'S a few times, and did not do well in his "environment".
> 
> I'd love to run without a scrubber.


I ran CMH for several years before switching to T5's 
it's well documented here


----------



## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> I think he just never got good with HPS. It's easier to grow under t-5's. I didn't miss anything. I just spent months reading his "books".


I have never, nor will I ever use an HPS light


----------



## hillbill (Nov 20, 2016)

My pot's too strong and I'm afraid of my hash! So I very well could be over associating potency with trich production without accounting for variables within each trich. That seems interesting. 

I may have to get a couple lizard lights. How close do these have to be and coverage?


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

NewI said:


> Would to much blue stress the plant? H
> 
> Can you link that page? I would bever get there on my own lol


I wish. But I was linked to it from a thread in RM3's website. I am not a member now and have deleted my bookmarks through his site as they don't work anymore. 

Funny thing is. The research does not suggest doing more of any of it than stated above can help as Rm3 suggests. More is not always better. 

There is tons of specific light info in Ed Rosenthal Growers Handbook as well. It suggests all the same info even 20 years ago. Easy search for the free PDF. Just no color glossy images like in the book. 

I am sorry I don't have the file you need saved. I took this all very seriously but found better growing in a stable environment with great genetics will likely show much higher gains than just adding light bulbs. Although more light is more yield and potency to a point of you can manage it. 

In the last 3 months while I researched all of this I changed nothing in my garden. I do strive to do better each time I do things and from planting a seed and harvesting a plant almost every week and caring for them individually (gallon nute solution custom mixed per plant each time) I am still seeing gains in yield and potency. Proper timed stress free transplanting up for a fully developed rootball seems the most important thing for plant vigor and health. Which ultimately determines the results. 

Maybe when I can't learn to grow better anymore (which would never happen as we can always learn to do better) then a new light or additive with a tiny percentage of gain could be realized. The gains my garden realized in the last 90 days is more like 15% just in yield. And the higher potency is subjective but everybody noticed. 

Just learn to grow better with what we already have first is my motto. Small improvements can mean huge gains. Focus on a proper stable environment.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I have never, nor will I ever use an HPS light


Sorry. I meant to write HID. Metal Halide.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I have never, nor will I ever use an HPS light


Haven't seen your due public apology for breaking the cardinal rule as a forum administrator.


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Nov 20, 2016)

So I could strap 2 bulb, 4ft fixtures in between each 4 COB light bar, with a Pure UV Agromax and 6400k in each fixture?

4x4 frame


O O O O
O l O l O l O
O l O l O l O
O O O O

Yay, or nay?

Edit.....my poor illustration of my light is giving me trouble. It's 16 COB in a 4x4 frame.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Haven't seen your due public apology for breaking the cardinal rule as a forum administrator.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> So I could strap 2 bulb, 4ft fixtures in between each 4 COB light bar, with a Pure UV Agromax and 6400k in each fixture?
> 
> 4x4 frame
> 
> ...


You could but they would need to be run on a separate timer and for small burst 3 to 5 min each hour, adjusted to your garden via plant response


----------



## NewI (Nov 20, 2016)

What would to much UV do to cana plants? "To much" can be whatever


----------



## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

NewI said:


> What would to much UV do to cana plants? "To much" can be whatever


10 straight hours with the pure UVB bulb 3 feet away


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## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> View attachment 3835369


I am not on or prescribed any meds. And my personal quarrel with my brother is obviously not for you to advertise here. I said apology you egocentric control freak. And none of your condescending comments are shown or even mentioned. Only your version. And it was a private message you are cherry picking out of. A message sent in trust of privacy. 

But you made my point again. You can't be trusted. 

And you told me my methods and medium could not yield great pot like yours almost every discussion. As if it is a fact. Problem is the person I know who tried your personal stash doesn't feel it had any of the qualities you are claiming from your methods. And would choose mine even though I sent him to you. I vouched for you and your meds even though I had not tried them or met you. 

And we are testing further even though you wouldn't return the patients emails after he gave you an unfavorable report just to be sure. But we expect the same result from any high tolerance smoker. 

The patient thinks the problem is you are a lightweight smoker. 

I was leaving your site because there is no "better" genetics or grow info there. It is not an elite growers site like you advertise it is just a friendly forum. Your "books" are contrived. Not proof or results of anything. And they are not books. They are just more of your threads. 

Thanks for showing your true colors by insulting me further rather than giving a sincere apology. 

I have not seen my friend there in years. He was referred to you with the highest expectations. His reports were not coached. I had not even talked to him on the phone and had a real conversation til the other day. 

Apparently. Rid grows and breeds Mids. 

they tend to have good flavor and a clear high.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I have never, nor will I ever use an HPS light


In my case, it's 'never again'.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> I am not on or prescribed any meds. And my personal quarrel with my brother is obviously not for you to advertise here. I said apology you egocentric control freak. And none of your condescending comments are shown or even mentioned. Only your version. And it was a private message you are cherry picking out of. A message sent in trust of privacy.
> 
> But you made my point again. You can't be trusted.
> 
> ...


No, Thank You for bringin your brand of crazy to RIU for all to see

I did not mention your brother, you did, I said family with zero details

and I already quoted the email I was sent by your friend, if my weed is so bad why did he say he would get more next time he visited his mum?

You live in a bubble, all I did was try and burst it for ya

You can see in the pic I posted the thread goes for 6 pages, there were actually members that posted I should post the crazy pm over here for all to see. In all 6 pages there was not one post that agreed with you. Joe did verify what I posted and shared a few things from the pm that you had said about me.

You say I violated your trust by invitin Joe to the pm, I say I covered my ass from your brand of crazy and allowed Joe to better understand things after the pages of conversation you had with him ending with your desire to leave the site

The folks at RIU are not fools, I hope you decide to drop this 3rd grade playground behavior but hey I tried and failed in the pm so not expectin anything different here

I truly wish ya the best, but I'm done with this


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> No, Thank You for bringin your brand of crazy to RIU for all to see
> 
> I did not mention your brother, you did, I said family with zero details
> 
> ...


I mentioned my brother because I am honest. Sometimes unfortunately to a fault. 

You are not. And you managed to never once answer a direct question that the answer might disagree with you and never read one link I sent here or on your site. Or the links in your own threads shown by your insistence to add to proven things because you think more is better like a newbie. 

And my friend as I already explained even here was willing to try again because of garden gnomes report on tinnitus and in respect to you for being so generous and to me for stupidly vouching for you. 

If you were going to answer honestly to my message rather than contrive a response based on manipulation and agendas it would not have taken 3 days. 

And you still leave out the condescending part you wrote that would make anyone mad. 

It doesn't matter if you think you are done. You live to post in public. I live to read and learn. You are in my space and everyone here's space too. All the info and everyone's opinions count. I don't think the members here are fools I think you are. All sides to any discussion should be explored. Not just yours. And you have to credit the original author when you post an article. Not let it read like you wrote it. Like about the UV a few pages back. You even took a compliment from someone as if you wrote it. And the links would be good for everyone as you cherry pick the parts you like.

You call anyone who disagrees with you haters. 

And to clarify my condition. I have an anxiety issue caused by being ill from several conditions since I was born very prematurely. No meds have been prescribed and I had a bad year. I'm pissed about some stuff but it has nothing to do with seeing right through you. 

Sorry disagreeing with you and being able to grow a great plant consistently with "conventional" methods in horrible Ocean Forest with evil bottled nutes makes you so upset.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Been sayin this for years, tis deep blue that grows trics, UV increases potency





hillbill said:


> My pot's too strong and I'm afraid of my hash! So I very well could be over associating potency with trich production without accounting for variables within each trich. That seems interesting.
> 
> *I may have to get a couple lizard lights. How close do these have to be and coverage?*


You'll be glad you did! Keep them about 10-12" from your plants & you'll be fine. I've got a clip light in each corner and a bulb dangling down in the middle. Makes a HUGE difference.


----------



## Odin* (Nov 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You do know most aquarium bulbs have UV, right?



Why the condescending tone?


You do know that UVA does not increase delta-9 THC and you do know that this bulb does not emit any UVB (or any UVA, for that matter)?

Also, you do know that I've "incubated" all of my seeds under this very same light and you do know that only the GSC dominant Sour Sunset's expressed early trich's?


My very short list of bean pops;

DGOG- La Plata
Ken's Kush- GDP
Danny OG- Head in the Clouds
Blue Suede Ribbon- Exotic Genetix
C99xHerijuana- Mota Rebel
Ghostrider OG- Karma
Sour Power OG- Karma
Tres Stardawg 2.0- Topdawg
Sour Sunset- DNA/Crocket
Animal Cookies bagseed
A few beans from my own




The expression of early trich's is not due to the lights, it's genetic. Some of the GSC dominant SS's were under another light, no "overlap", same early trich's. No other strain or it's varying phenos has done that under either light.

If early trich's were expressed due to lighting, then all "sprouts" under that particular light would/should have early trich's. That just isn't the case.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Sorry disagreeing with you and being able to grow a great plant consistently with "conventional" methods in horrible Ocean Forest with evil bottled nutes makes you so upset.


I think we are just talking about preferences. I do not recall RM3 ever criticising people for using soil or bottled nutes. He may mention that he thinks there's a better way, but it's just his opinion. Personally, I like FFOF a lot -- especially since I've found a source that is affordable ($13 for the big bag). Again, that's just an opinion too but it's based on personal experience. I also like ProMix, coco, and custom soil mixes. I don't understand why people argue about this shit. 
Reminds me of Ford vs Chevy debates...


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## GardenGnome83 (Nov 20, 2016)

Wow. I wanted to stay out of this, but fuck that.
As one who has actually smoked @RM3's cannabis, I can say that the above is not honest. I had never been so high, and I smoke alot of pot. Why must one act so aggressive? From the point of view of those of us who saw the whole thing unfold, the negativity came about when people called out all the questioning and negativity, without willingness to ditch the bro science for real science. Some people can't handle being told they're wrong.
Kind of like how a child acts when they're embarrassed for being wrong - they throw tantrums and will not admit they're wrong EVER.
You can take it or leave it. To discard something that has been proven time and again - because of pride, is foolish.
I know my bud is better because of the knowledge shared by Rid. It's not your loss if someone chooses to be ignorant, it's on them.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> I think we are just talking about preferences. I do not recall RM3 ever criticising people for using soil or bottled nutes. He may mention that he thinks there's a better way, but it's just his opinion. Personally, I like FFOF a lot -- especially since I've found a source that is affordable ($13 for the big bag). Again, that's just an opinion too but it's based on personal experience. I also like ProMix, coco, and custom soil mixes. I don't understand why people argue about this shit.
> Reminds me of Ford vs Chevy debates...


Me too. I was never arguing about any methods. Just posting mine. But he seems to act differently with me and really never stopped telling me my methods were inferior. 

And his protege on his site tried to do it for quite a while too. They also tried hard to undermine my hard learned knowledge by constantly mis representing my comments to try to defend their own methods. 

I don't care how we grow. All kinds of methods can work well. As long as everything is in balance for the plant.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> Wow. I wanted to stay out of this, but fuck that.
> As one who has actually smoked @RM3's cannabis, I can say that the above is not honest. I had never been so high, and I smoke alot of pot. Why must one act so aggressive? From the point of view of those of us who saw the whole thing unfold, the negativity came about when people called out all the questioning and negativity, without willingness to ditch the bro science for real science. Some people can't handle being told they're wrong.
> Kind of like how a child acts when they're embarrassed for being wrong - they throw tantrums and will not admit they're wrong EVER.
> You can take it or leave it. To discard something that has been proven time and again - because of pride, is foolish.
> I know my bud is better because of the knowledge shared by Rid. It's not your loss if someone chooses to be ignorant, it's on them.


The person who reported to me smoked 5 of his strains from his stash and tried the joints in 3 sessions each. He said it was nice heady weed and he stayed high for a few hours. But that's it. No trippiness and no revelations. He smokes good weed all the time though. But he said it was good. Just not as advertised. 

Which part is not honest?

And who is choosing to be ignorant by not listening to rm3. 

Maybe something was missing or out of balance in your grow and you realized how to fix it. And now it's better. That is your accomplishment. Not someone else's.


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## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Me too. I was never arguing about any methods. Just posting mine. But he seems to act differently with me and* really never stopped telling me my methods were inferior. *
> 
> And his protege on his site tried to do it for quite a while too. They also tried hard to undermine my hard learned knowledge by constantly mis representing my comments to try to defend their own methods.
> 
> I don't care how we grow. All kinds of methods can work well. As long as everything is in balance for the plant.


Not once, not ever did I do this, Dude it's documented, with lots of witnesses. The only thing I tried to do was get you to open your mind and hell dude even said those exact words several times.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> The person who reported to me smoked 5 of his strains from his stash and tried the joints in 3 sessions each. He said it was nice heady weed and he stayed high for a few hours. But that's it. No trippiness and no revelations. He smokes good weed all the time though. But he said it was good. Just not as advertised.
> 
> Which part is not honest?
> 
> ...


Yeah and only took 2 hits at a time. I can copy that part of his email if needed Hell we even talked about the idea that perhaps he should try smokin more to see if it helped? 

So your friend takes 2 hits, gets a good clear headed high that last several hours and I breed mids LMAO at your obvious delusions


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> The person who reported to me smoked 5 of his strains from his stash and tried the joints in 3 sessions each. He said it was nice heady weed and he stayed high for a few hours. But that's it. No trippiness and no revelations. He smokes good weed all the time though. But he said it was good. Just not as advertised.
> 
> Which part is not honest?
> 
> ...


My bud was good before I started discarding the "hard learned" bro science, it got better. Hell, Rid smoked a j I grew before I implemented any of his practices, and it worked on him, so...
I've added to my regimen little things. Little things that you argued about til you left the forum. I doubted it all too, that is healthy and wise. But I chose to find out through research and experience if it works. 
Maybe rid doesn't have time for the arguments anymore? He's done it over and over. It's tiring. If you have not done it yourself, why knock it because it goes against decades of faulty "bro-science"? Why not use that intelligence to see if you can get better buds, instead of discounting it because convention says otherwise?
Sure, we all grow differently. But conventional "wisdom" is usually a bunch of crap, in the case of cannabis. I wish you peace, friend.


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## GardenGnome83 (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Yeah and only took 2 hits at a time. I can copy that part of his email if needed Hell we even talked about the idea that perhaps he should try smokin more to see if it helped?
> 
> So your friend takes 2 hits, gets a good clear headed high that last several hours and I breed mids LMAO at your obvious delusions


I was thinking the same thing! It's said on my thread for fucks sake!


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## NewI (Nov 20, 2016)

Does Ati Actinic have enough enough uvb?


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## RM3 (Nov 20, 2016)

NewI said:


> Does Ati Actinic have enough enough uvb?


No, it has none, they are a UVA bulb


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## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 20, 2016)

I use DE and have been killing it with them, i just finished my first run using a de MH 10000k the last 2 weeks. I can honestly say there is a noticeable difference in the high from the last time I grew without the MH bulb.


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 20, 2016)

Dr.Nick Riviera said:


> I use DE and have been killing it with them, i just finished my first run using a de MH 10000k the last 2 weeks. I can honestly say there is a noticeable difference in the high from the last time I grew without the MH bulb.


Yep. I swap out my HPS bulbs and replace with MH during the last two weeks. I also prefer MH for veg. The blue spectrum keeps them short and stocky, plus it provides a little UV. 
I bet a 315 CMH would outperform TWO of my 400w MH rigs (non-digital). I don't mind running them in the winter because the heat is needed, but this spring I'm going to upgrade. I'll probably go with DIY COB if I end up buying brand new gear. But I'm definitely open to CMH if the price is right. I can manage the heat during summer, but it's a hassle.


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## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 20, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> Yep. I swap out my HPS bulbs and replace with MH during the last two weeks. I also prefer MH for veg. The blue spectrum keeps them short and stocky, plus it provides a little UV.
> I bet a 315 CMH would outperform TWO of my 400w MH rigs (non-digital). I don't mind running them in the winter because the heat is needed, but this spring I'm going to upgrade. I'll probably go with DIY COB if I end up buying brand new gear. But I'm definitely open to CMH if the price is right. I can manage the heat during summer, but it's a hassle.


I ran a 400 CMH for veg for years, i have been using a 315lec for veg for almost a year now and love it.


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## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> My bud was good before I started discarding the "hard learned" bro science, it got better. Hell, Rid smoked a j I grew before I implemented any of his practices, and it worked on him, so...
> I've added to my regimen little things. Little things that you argued about til you left the forum. I doubted it all too, that is healthy and wise. But I chose to find out through research and experience if it works.
> Maybe rid doesn't have time for the arguments anymore? He's done it over and over. It's tiring. If you have not done it yourself, why knock it because it goes against decades of faulty "bro-science"? Why not use that intelligence to see if you can get better buds, instead of discounting it because convention says otherwise?
> Sure, we all grow differently. But conventional "wisdom" is usually a bunch of crap, in the case of cannabis. I wish you peace, friend.


As a veteran of my fair share of flame wars over 'bro science' too, I heartily concur with these words of wisdom! 

It happens every time you start trying something new- and make the mistake of posting about it, lol


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## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 20, 2016)

I can also say that RM3 uses and recommends jack's classic and or citrus feed, which could be considered a "bottled nute" He also usually links to the source of his claims, so i really don't see this guy's points


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## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Yeah and only took 2 hits at a time. I can copy that part of his email if needed Hell we even talked about the idea that perhaps he should try smokin more to see if it helped?
> 
> So your friend takes 2 hits, gets a good clear headed high that last several hours and I breed mids LMAO at your obvious delusions


You say 2 hits lasts for 8 hours all the time. Mids give a nice clear high. It can last too. What you call grandpa weed was mids. We have much more potent weed available than that from great breeders.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Not once, not ever did I do this, Dude it's documented, with lots of witnesses. The only thing I tried to do was get you to open your mind and hell dude even said those exact words several times.


You even wrote that I could never grow great weed in Ocean Forest in my journal. And you blamed me for someone else trying it as if it was a terrible thing. You have a very selective memory.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> My bud was good before I started discarding the "hard learned" bro science, it got better. Hell, Rid smoked a j I grew before I implemented any of his practices, and it worked on him, so...
> I've added to my regimen little things. Little things that you argued about til you left the forum. I doubted it all too, that is healthy and wise. But I chose to find out through research and experience if it works.
> Maybe rid doesn't have time for the arguments anymore? He's done it over and over. It's tiring. If you have not done it yourself, why knock it because it goes against decades of faulty "bro-science"? Why not use that intelligence to see if you can get better buds, instead of discounting it because convention says otherwise?
> Sure, we all grow differently. But conventional "wisdom" is usually a bunch of crap, in the case of cannabis. I wish you peace, friend.


Cannabis has tons of research done at all levels. There are pretty much no mysteries except all the cannabanoids we are now investigating. He has discovered nothing real that has not been previously known. He takes credit for things without posting the author all the time. 

your buds always look awesome. I can't imagine it's anything but your own skill and experience causing improvements.


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## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

Dr.Nick Riviera said:


> I can also say that RM3 uses and recommends jack's classic and or citrus feed, which could be considered a "bottled nute" He also usually links to the source of his claims, so i really don't see this guy's points


They're dry powders. They are premixes, though. 

I know @RM3 personally and I'd vouch for him to anyone.


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## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They're dry powders. They are premixes, though.
> 
> I know @RM3 personally and I'd vouch for him to anyone.


I know they are powder, Once you mix them with water in a bottle, they become bottle nutes, the other dude said it as if it's a bad thing.


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## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> You say 2 hits lasts for 8 hours all the time. Mids give a nice clear high. It can last too. What you call grandpa weed was mids. We have much more potent weed available than that from great breeders.





MichiganMedGrower said:


> You even wrote that I could never grow great weed in Ocean Forest in my journal. And you blamed me for someone else trying it as if it was a terrible thing. You have a very selective memory.





MichiganMedGrower said:


> Cannabis has tons of research done at all levels. There are pretty much no mysteries except all the cannabanoids we are now investigating. He has discovered nothing real that has not been previously known. He takes credit for things without posting the author all the time.
> 
> your buds always look awesome. I can't imagine it's anything but your own skill and experience causing improvements.


Dude. Get a room or something, you're embarrassing the kids.


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Cannabis has tons of research done at all levels. There are pretty much no mysteries except all the cannabanoids we are now investigating. He has discovered nothing real that has not been previously known. He takes credit for things without posting the author all the time.
> 
> your buds always look awesome. I can't imagine it's anything but your own skill and experience causing improvements.


I could try to take credit for all of the improvements in my grow, but ultimately, many of my favorite "tips & tricks" came from other people. For example, it has been my experience that plants LOVE calcined clay (a specific type of kitty litter). That tip came from RM3 -- and he gives credit to some guy name Al Tapla and his "gritty mix". 

When you start thinking you're hot shit, don't forget your roots...


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## Friction1957 (Nov 20, 2016)

I love reading threads on grow sites. Sometimes it's good data, sometimes not so much. But I'm happy because I get a chance to read about some way to grow that may improve my grow. As a reader of forums I read them to become a better grower, it's the part that matters to me. That said I could really give two flying fucks who's weed is better than someone else weed. And care even less to read a pissing contest about it. It in no way shape or form enhances the learning people are looking for. 

@MichiganMedGrower we get it. I in no way want to dissuade you from anything you hold true. Good on ya. But your behavior here losses you more friends than you gain. Be as angry as you want, but it's time to stop this sort of thing, you're better than this. You have a problem with him, then great, sort it out or stay away. Bombing a dudes grow thread like this hurts way more than it helps.


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## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

Dr.Nick Riviera said:


> I know they are powder, Once you mix them with water in a bottle, they become bottle nutes, the other dude said it as if it's a bad thing.


What the fuck ever, lol. The plants drink water. Nutes gotta be in the water.


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## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> I mentioned my brother because I am honest. Sometimes unfortunately to a fault.
> 
> You are not. And you managed to never once answer a direct question that the answer might disagree with you and never read one link I sent here or on your site. Or the links in your own threads shown by your insistence to add to proven things because you think more is better like a newbie.
> 
> ...


 this is what I was referring to


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## NewI (Nov 20, 2016)

@MichiganMedGrower why don't you see that you do yourself no good with this BS and more than that you don't do shit to RM3. If he is a fraud let him be... eventualy people will see that and if not he dies like we all do and everything don't mean shit anymore..


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

NewI said:


> @MichiganMedGrower why don't you see that you do yourself no good with this BS and more than that you don't do shit to RM3. If he is a fraud let him be... eventualy people will see that and if not he dies like we all do and everything don't mean shit anymore..


The only part of any of this I am still worried about is my personal information may be at risk on an easily shaken stoners website. How can he be trusted? And how can I be sure?


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 20, 2016)

Odin* said:


> Why the condescending tone?
> 
> 
> You do know that UVA does not increase delta-9 THC and you do know that this bulb does not emit any UVB (or any UVA, for that matter)?
> ...


Why does agromax make a horticulture bulb with only uva? Why is it when I use that bulb the weed is better?


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 20, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> You say 2 hits lasts for 8 hours all the time. Mids give a nice clear high. It can last too. What you call grandpa weed was mids. We have much more potent weed available than that from great breeders.


Why not shut up.

Do you not see how stupid you look? You are on here telling people how bad someone else's weed is when you never tried it.

Your homeboy sent an email wanting more rm3 weed and I guess not yours. Jealousy is ugly dude.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Why not shut up.
> 
> Do you not see how stupid you look? You are on here telling people how bad someone else's weed id when you never tried it.
> 
> Your homeboy sent an email wanting more rm3 weed and I guess not yours. Jealousy is ugly dude.


That was explained clearly already. I am the one who sent him there in the first place for help. He was willing to try again to help his tinnitus if possible. As far as where he gets his weed for enjoyment. He had already decided before the email Rm3 ignored. I was a member of his site at the time vouching for him. My friend did not know any of this had happened until yesterday. 

I haven't even seen him in years. I was trying to help him with medical marijuana. He is saying the weed was not anything like Rm3 says. I trust him. I have known him since the 80's. 

No need to be rude. It doesn't even concern you unless you have doubts about Rm3.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> I could try to take credit for all of the improvements in my grow, but ultimately, many of my favorite "tips & tricks" came from other people. For example, it has been my experience that plants LOVE calcined clay (a specific type of kitty litter). That tip came from RM3 -- and he gives credit to some guy name Al Tapla and his "gritty mix".
> 
> When you start thinking you're hot shit, don't forget your roots...


I learned to grow from reading books and questioning the breeder of the genetics I chose. 

I have and continue to give credit for the information that helped me succeed to Ed Rosenthal and Pete at CH9 seeds. 

And if I site an article or something I always include the original author. I can say some things he has done right too. I went to his site in good faith and spent months reading everything he wrote. 

The good stuff is mostly plagerized and his observations are just opinion. There is real data available that contradicts most of it.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 20, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Yeah and only took 2 hits at a time. I can copy that part of his email if needed Hell we even talked about the idea that perhaps he should try smokin more to see if it helped?
> 
> So your friend takes 2 hits, gets a good clear headed high that last several hours and I breed mids LMAO at your obvious delusions


He followed your instructions. He commented on what your expectations were. You just turn anything around at your convenience. 

And he tried to get more to test but you ignored him. Why?

And maybe you should stop copying people's personal stuff on to public forums. Shame on you.


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## Lucky Luke (Nov 21, 2016)

fk me..can we get back to Grandpa's Weed. I dont give a flying fk about the drama ur creating Michigan. Its not your thread, I dont care what your customer says either. Old salesman motto- Buyers are lairs.

Im liking the ideas and want to hear new (and old) ideas.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 21, 2016)

RM3 said:


> View attachment 3835369


Almost none of this is true about me. You never even read anything I wrote it looks like. Even have mis quoted me about the personal stuff I shared privately with you. Quite a politician you think you are. 

I left because you don't really know what you are talking about and you never stop pushing your version. And you don't have the results to back any of it up anyway. 

I joined to read grow books and see test results. They were just threads of you babbling on but I read them all before deciding anything.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 21, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> fk me..can we get back to Grandpa's Weed. I dont give a flying fk about the drama ur creating Michigan. Its not your thread, I dont care what your customer says either. Old salesman motto- Buyers are lairs.
> 
> Im liking the ideas and want to hear new (and old) ideas.


It was a medical patient sent to him. No money involved. And it is a public forum. So go ahead and rant. I am answering a stack of comments from this thread. It's not actually the other way around. Anyone would be upset if their trust and privacy was violated the way @RM3 has mine.


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## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 21, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Why does agromax make a horticulture bulb with only uva? Why is it when I use that bulb the weed is better?


this is from an email i got for a led light
copied and pasted

*Which is Better: UVA or UVB?*
Ultraviolet light is split into 3 categories based on wavelength:


Ultraviolet A (UVA) is from 320-400nm and comprises about 3% of the photons in natural sunlight that make it through Earth's atmosphere. UVA light does not damage DNA.
Ultraviolet B (UVB) is from 290-320nm and makes up less than 0.15% -- less than 1/5th of 1% -- of total natural sunlight. UVB light is energetic enough to cause damage to DNA, including inducing cancer in animals. Luckily for us, the Earth's ozone layer blocks almost all of the sun's UVB light.
Ultraviolet C (UVC) is from 100-290nm and is almost completely filtered out by Earth's atmosphere, so is not a component of natural sunlight. UVC light is energetic enough that it is used for sterilization purposes-- it kills living cells.
Plants respond to exposure to both UVA and UVB light; different plants respond in different ways, but in general studies have shown increased production of antioxidants / flavonoids and other natural sunscreen compounds in a process called photomorphogenesis.

In Cannabis plants, exposure to UVA and/or UVB light increases production of THC and CBD. There is some confusion caused by a 1987 study by John Lydon, Alan Teramura and C. Benjamin Coffman titled "UV-B Radiation Effects on Photosynthesis, Growth and Cannabinoid Production of two _Cannabis sativa_ Chemotypes". The study grew Cannabis plants and exposed some to UVB light and others to no UV light at all, finding increased THC concentrations for the plants exposed to UVB compared to the plants not exposed to UV at all.

Some people have interpreted this to mean that only UVB light increases the production of THC in Cannabis plants, but this study does not demonstrate that. First, the study was not designed to test exposing Cannabis plants to UVA light- only UVB or no UV at all, so nothing can be concluded from the study about whether UVA affects THC production in Cannabis. Secondly, the study's setup was flawed and really only tested whether exposing Cannabis plants to both UVB and UVA increased THC production compared to no UV light at all, because the cellulose acetate filter they used in an effort to eliminate UVA light from their broad-spectrum UV source was later shown by a different study to allow UVA light to pass through. So the original study only showed that exposure to both UVA and UVB light increased THC production compared to no UV, but not whether UVA or UVB (or the combination) was responsible.

From our own research grows, Black Dog LED has demonstrated that UVA light alone can increase THC and CBD production in Cannabis plants. The combination of UVA and UVB light (from a standard "reptile bulb" fluorescent light) also increases THC and CBD production, but the inclusion of UVB in the light has noticeable detrimental effects on plant growth compared to only UVA.

This is why we've engineered the Black Dog LED Phyto-Genesis Spectrum™ to only include UVA light, without any UVB wavelengths. The UVA still increases production of secondary metabolites such as THC, CBD, terpenes and flavonoids but without the negative effects of UVB light.

Are You Being Lied To?
There are a couple well known brands of LED grow lights that claim to have UV in their spectrum, but when their lights are tested under a spectrometer, it is readily apparent that they in fact do not have UV. Are you sure that the brands you offer your customers are living up to their claims? 

Black Dog LED grow lights use the most highest quality and most efficient UVA diodes available. Have a spectrometer? Plug in one of our lights and see for yourself. Alternatively, feel free to stop by our office and we'll let you test our light or any other brand under our state-of-the-art spectrometer. 
​


----------



## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 21, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> It was a medical patient sent to him. No money involved. And it is a public forum. So go ahead and rant. I am answering a stack of comments from this thread. It's not actually the other way around. Anyone would be upset if their trust and privacy was violated the way @RM3 has mine.


sounds to me like it was more of a fact that you wanted his whole dick and he just gave you the head and now you're angry.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Nov 21, 2016)

Damn..those Black dogs are expensive!


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 21, 2016)

Dr.Nick Riviera said:


> sounds to me like it was more of a fact that you wanted his whole dick and he just gave you the head and now you're angry.


See. The extra helpful commenters keep posting.


----------



## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 21, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> See. The extra helpful commenters keep posting.


the truth hurts,suck it up buttercup!


----------



## NewI (Nov 21, 2016)

Why dont you start a thread and call out rm3, and others if you want eyes, I wanna learn UVB shit. 
Can't find localy any fucking thing. @360nm is ok? I saw a t5 for bugs. To attract them?


----------



## Odin* (Nov 21, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Why does agromax make a horticulture bulb with only uva? Why is it when I use that bulb the weed is better?


The short answer, because people will buy it.

Seriously though, the UVA probably does help with developing other cannabiniods/flavonoids/terpenes/etc. I have not seen a study that suggests UVA increases delta-9 THC. 

Going back to where I started, early trich's are a genetic trait, not the result of exposure to UVA or UVB. 





Dr.Nick Riviera said:


> this is from an email i got for a led light
> copied and pasted
> 
> *Which is Better: UVA or UVB?*
> ...



Not credible. Sounds like it at first, until "From our own research..." followed by the sales pitch. I have not read an article that concluded UVA exposure increased THC. If one existed, or if their "research team" had conducted such an "experiment", he would have offered that information/link.


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## hillbill (Nov 21, 2016)

Black Dog advertising is no doubt the most accurate and insightful source of information about lighting I have ever read. None have demonstrated commitment to truth and objectivity like Black Dog. Maybe Platinum and Amare!


----------



## NewI (Nov 21, 2016)

Platinum? Don't think so... The guy that stated that white leds are useless for growing and then he went and implemented white diodes on the fixtures? Nahh


----------



## hillbill (Nov 21, 2016)

Some old men like this one have a rather dry sense of humor. Leave a little room for that.


----------



## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 21, 2016)

Odin* said:


> The short answer, because people will buy it.
> 
> Seriously though, the UVA probably does help with developing other cannabiniods/flavonoids/terpenes/etc. I have not seen a study that suggests UVA increases delta-9 THC.
> 
> ...


 I said it was from an e mail and that I cut and pasted it, I never said it was gospel.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 21, 2016)

Odin* said:


> The short answer, because people will buy it.
> 
> Seriously though, the UVA probably does help with developing other cannabiniods/flavonoids/terpenes/etc. I have not seen a study that suggests UVA increases delta-9 THC.
> 
> ...


Don't buy it. Make the bulb just because. 

I have no proof but in my opinion uva increases potency.


----------



## NewI (Nov 21, 2016)

RM3 said:


> No, it has none, they are a UVA bulb


 
So that little feng between 350 and 400 is nothing?


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## RM3 (Nov 21, 2016)

NewI said:


> View attachment 3836168
> So that little feng between 350 and 400 is nothing?


pretty much


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 21, 2016)

hillbill said:


> Black Dog advertising is no doubt the most accurate and insightful source of information about lighting I have ever read. None have demonstrated commitment to truth and objectivity like Black Dog. Maybe Platinum and Amare!


Marketing materials are always suspicious.


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 21, 2016)

This is a great discussion! 
I use lizard lights, but gotta be careful around them. Just being around my plants gives me a farmers tan! Eye protection is essential. One of my bulbs is a different brand than the others, and I can tell it has more UVA just by looking at it (with shades, of course). I thought this was a bad thing & was going to swap it out, but maybe it's contributing to a more balanced spectrum??? 
Dunno.


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 21, 2016)

UV also seems to decrease mold and mildew problems, but I have no proof.


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## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 21, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> UV also seems to decrease mold and mildew problems, but I have no proof.


uv-c is used in hospitals and ambulances, daycare's to disinfect. it kills molds and mildews, bacteria


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 21, 2016)

Dr.Nick Riviera said:


> uv-c is used in hospitals and ambulances, daycare's to disinfect. it kills molds and mildews, bacteria


Sounds like uv-c would be a good thing to run as clean up after a grow -- like o3 (ozone).


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## CannaBruh (Nov 21, 2016)

it's been long discussed to run it in your ventilation completely closed, you can also find it in some laundry systems, HVAC systems, cabinets for storing worn items like goggles etc


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## Dr.Nick Riviera (Nov 21, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> Sounds like uv-c would be a good thing to run as clean up after a grow -- like o3 (ozone).


I have looked at that, a unit for an ambulance is $5-600, they have smaller hand held units, but I like the ambulance unit. Aww, just found this, pretty cool https://www.cureuv.com/products/germawayuv-table-top-uvc-surface-sterilizer?variant=24007146183


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## hillbill (Nov 21, 2016)

Do you seriously want to fool with UVC?


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2016)

hillbill said:


> Do you seriously want to fool with UVC?


Your fear betrays you. Just like a truck or a chainsaw, UVC is just a tool- only dangerous if MISused.


----------



## hillbill (Nov 21, 2016)

Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Duel, Christine........Be afraid! Very,very afraid! Posting after reading only the last post first.


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## Odin* (Nov 21, 2016)

Odin* said:


> Seriously though, the UVA probably does help with developing other cannabiniods/flavonoids/terpenes/etc.





whitebb2727 said:


> I have no proof but in my opinion uva increases potency.


I was agreeing with your assessment that UVA bettered your bud, not due to increased THC,
but through developing other aspects (cannabinoids/flavonoids/terpenes/etc.) that add depth and complexity to the flavors and high/stone. I don't have "proof" either, but it more than likely, there is some truth to it.


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## whitebb2727 (Nov 21, 2016)

Odin* said:


> I was agreeing with your assessment that UVA bettered your bud, not due to increased THC,
> but through developing other aspects (cannabinoids/flavonoids/terpenes/etc.) that add depth and complexity to the flavors and high/stone. I don't have "proof" either, but it more than likely, there is some truth to it.


Makes sense. There is more to a buzz than thc. It is why a 15% strain can wreck you worse than a 20% strain.


----------



## Odin* (Nov 21, 2016)




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## Odin* (Nov 21, 2016)

^That was directed toward @hillbill and @NewI 's exchange.


----------



## Odin* (Nov 21, 2016)

With @hillbill as "The Emperor".


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## Bbcchance (Nov 21, 2016)

Wow, you guys are talking about cleaning up after your grows with uvc and ozone treatments, just reminded me im low on Clorox wipes.......


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2016)

Its all about the synergies, % THC % CBD mean fuckall without all the synergy that goes on


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Its all about the synergies, % THC % CBD mean fuckall without all the synergy that goes on


Does this mean you're into synergy conservation?


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Does this mean you're into synergy conservation?


I am not into the conservation of synergy, in the case of synergy the more the merrier


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> I am not into the conservation of synergy, in the case of synergy the more the merrier


Quite right!


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## Budley Doright (Nov 21, 2016)

Just a FYI but for UVC to be effective, the virus, spore, etc. has to be within inches of the light so don't be hangin that puppy in the middle of your room it won't work lol. And ya their kinda dangerous to look at .... it hurts the peepers. But yes so is a chainsaw, ask my old man....old three fingers .
Edit: feel kinda bad, I was cutting, he was holding .


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## Budley Doright (Nov 21, 2016)

RM3 said:


> For those that think UV is a waste of time,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> feel free to share pics of your non uv buds that just finished week 4 of flower ,,,,,
> 
> ...


Well it's under the sun so not quite as good as COB but


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 21, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Well it's under the sun so not quite as good as COB butView attachment 3836622 View attachment 3836628


Surprised to hear you say that.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 21, 2016)

wow, i am so stoned, i found myself wondering if UV could help with my seasonal light disorder?


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 21, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> wow, i am so stoned, i found myself wondering if UV could help with my seasonal light disorder?


Probably would give you cancer in the process.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 21, 2016)

its bright sunny and 77 in my grow box,, makes me just want to climb in there and get some hawaii time,, hahhaa


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 21, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> its bright sunny and 77 in my grow box,, makes me just want to climb in there and get some hawaii time,, hahhaa


Sitting under COBs is fine. UV can cause skin cancer.


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## Budley Doright (Nov 21, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Surprised to hear you say that.


Well I was being facetious lol. As much as I enjoy growing plants in the lab and yup manipulate lighting, nothing beats the big ball in the sky . And never said I didn't like COB, they seem to grow plants very well.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 21, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Well I was being facetious lol. As much as I enjoy growing plants in the lab and yup manipulate lighting, nothing beats the big ball in the sky . And never said I didn't like COB, they seem to grow plants very well.


i should have stayed in So Cal,, hahaha


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## Budley Doright (Nov 21, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> i should have stayed in So Cal,, hahaha


Why So Cal.....eastern Ontario works well......except for the foot of fucking snow that fell today ..... fuck!!!


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 21, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Why So Cal.....eastern Ontario works well......except for the foot of fucking snow that fell today ..... fuck!!!


I was stationed at Fort Drum, 20 miles from the border. Chilled in Kingston once or twice. I was really wasted and don't remember much of it. But yeah, that lake effect snow and Atlantic snow will gangbang you into cryostasis.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 21, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Why So Cal.....eastern Ontario works well......except for the foot of fucking snow that fell today ..... fuck!!!


lol,, ok i wont curse oregon rain so much


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 21, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> lol,, ok i wont curse oregon rain so much


I miss Bend.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 21, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> I miss Bend.


i have family in Bend,, going there for Thanks giving,, i just love the view of those mountains,, the sisters,, Jefferson, Mt Bachelor


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 21, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> i have family in Bend,, going there for Thanks giving,, i just love the view of those mountains,, the sisters,, Jefferson, Mt Bachelor


Butte. I liked going up the Butte. With my girlfriend. And her mom.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 21, 2016)

powell butte,, great place to puff a bowl


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 21, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Butte. I liked going up the Butte. With my girlfriend. And her mom.


That ain't right.


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 21, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> That ain't right.


Her mom is pretty chill, though. Drug abuse therapist who believes in marijuana.


----------



## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2016)

Laughing my ass off. I am happy to see that my thread is not the only one where there are pages of people talking about random shit, good to keep the conversation rolling in my opinion, even if it is nae related


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> wow, i am so stoned, i found myself wondering if UV could help with my seasonal light disorder?


have a read...http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_sol67.htm


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 21, 2016)

I like to stare at the sun just as its peaking up at sunrise and going down at sunset just for a minute or so, very powerful. The morning one you can feel the power of it more I find


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## Tim Fox (Nov 21, 2016)

life above the 45 parallel ,, all these years,, and i just miss the sunshine ,, well 6 months of the year any ways


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## Lucky Luke (Nov 21, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Its all about the synergies, % THC % CBD mean fuckall without all the synergy that goes on


Its the vibe.. man...


----------



## Budley Doright (Nov 21, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> I was stationed at Fort Drum, 20 miles from the border. Chilled in Kingston once or twice. I was really wasted and don't remember much of it. But yeah, that lake effect snow and Atlantic snow will gangbang you into cryostasis.


I'm 5 miles from Kingston . Partied with a few drum boys in my youth at Wellsley Island while camping and yup that's what's going on now....lake effect . It was 67 on Saturday ..... 30 now lol.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> wow, i am so stoned, i found myself wondering if UV could help with my seasonal light disorder?


NO, but it will give you macular degeneration. Irreversible. 

For Seasonal Affective Disorder I'd personally recommend some of these very COB LED units we are building for plants. 

The bloom chips are nice warm light, no UV at all, very easy on the eyes to work under. And plenty damn bright too, which is really the ticket; I have SAD too, so I read up on it. you want to be someplace plenty bright, no hat or sunglasses. 

My COB LED bloom space is exactly what the doctor ordered, I feel better every time I visit. 

I don't like to hang out under the light from my HID lights nearly as well.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2016)

@Tim Fox I forgot to mention; 
One other thing to keep in mind while medicating with light is timing; don't do it at night, because it will mess with your circadian rhythm, resetting your body clock and fucking with your sleep schedule.


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 22, 2016)

Safe hours are anytime within 45 min - 1 hour window after sunrise or anytime within the 45 min - 1 hr window before sunset. To determine the timings of sunrise or sunset, you can check the local newspaper, which also lists the UV Index as 0 during these times


----------



## NewI (Nov 22, 2016)

Pls some zoom pics with <15 days plants showing trics ?


----------



## Budley Doright (Nov 22, 2016)

I'm certainly no expert on the subject of early triche production but given the anecdotal evidence of triches being present under all types of light, I would think it has more to do with strain and yes maybe spectral differences than one light source. RM have you actually seen a strain that has shown early triche production under UV not show it under non UV sources? Seems to me (and I could be wrong) that your earlier strains from years ago had early triche production before you actually ran a specific UV source. I can honestly say I do get better crystal formation running the same strain outdoors than in but I typically run HID with the odd grow having supplemental T5's with different spectrums. With so many variables outdoors it's hard to draw a conclusion of any kind. I also read a thread which stated you had moved away from maintaining a higher canopy temp than you previously ran. Is this true and what were/are the results if you have?


----------



## RM3 (Nov 22, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I also read a thread which stated you had moved away from maintaining a higher canopy temp than you previously ran. Is this true and what were/are the results if you have?


This is not true 

and I have seen more early trics since addin uv to my seedling tray


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## dangledo (Nov 22, 2016)

NEVER had any early trichs with this strain(hps, mh) until....... i put them under an LEC. at which point they were only under them to be hardened off and put back in the veg tent. only a few days, at a few hours at a time, they showed veg/ early trichs. 

veg
 

21 days flower


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Nov 22, 2016)

Rg 357 "Colorado Thunder Fuck"
21 days from seed under cfl and led.


----------



## Budley Doright (Nov 22, 2016)

RM3 said:


> This is not true
> 
> and I have seen more early trics since addin uv to my seedling tray


I'll try and find the thread, and yes I was surprised to read it, I may have misunderstood. So just to clarify, you have seen early triches on ones where there were none before adding UV?
Edit: sorry missed a bunch of posts .


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## RM3 (Nov 22, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I'll try and find the thread, and yes I was surprised to read it, I may have misunderstood. So just to clarify, you have seen early triches on ones where there were none before adding UV?


yeppers and in veg also


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 22, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I'll try and find the thread, and yes I was surprised to read it, I may have misunderstood. So just to clarify, you have seen early triches on ones where there were none before adding UV?


I love you, Bud, I don't mean to come off condescending or otherwise patronizing, but RM3's been growing since the late '60s, early '70s and has experimented very vehemently and documented clearly. Like, he tests everything, and is someone I'd trust to be free from bias. I dunno the conversation between you two, and I know you're hesitant to hear what I have to say, but RM3's completely lucid and fair in his observations. He doesn't even follow current mainstream doctrine, has used outlandish fringe techniques, and those who have visited him have verified that his shit is unlike any weed today, and will likely put you on your ass quicker than pretty much any strain you can grab today.


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Nov 22, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> Rg 357 "Colorado Thunder Fuck"
> 21 days from seed under cfl and led. View attachment 3836949


Man, even I'm envious. Good fuckin' job, bro.

Riddlers, lead the way!


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 22, 2016)

Why does this keep happening? Just let it go. 
I'm surprised you aren't exhausted by now. Staying angry is very draining on the soul...


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 22, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Hey @RM3
> I'm out.


Good. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 22, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Man, even I'm envious. Good fuckin' job, bro.
> 
> Riddlers, lead the way!


Amen! I've never seen that much frost so soon.


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Nov 22, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Good. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


Goddamn right.


----------



## NewI (Nov 22, 2016)

GardenGnome83 said:


> Rg 357 "Colorado Thunder Fuck"
> 21 days from seed under cfl and led. View attachment 3836949


Wish I will have one of these soon enouh... It's alien to me.


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## GardenGnome83 (Nov 22, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Man, even I'm envious. Good fuckin' job, bro.
> 
> Riddlers, lead the way!


Fuckin A right!


----------



## GardenGnome83 (Nov 22, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> Amen! I've never seen that much frost so soon.


All I've done is implement the teachings of an insane, narcissistic old hippy, and ditched conventional weed wisdom.
Drink the Kool-Aid(x ctf) @RM3 offers, you'll get higher, man...


----------



## Budley Doright (Nov 22, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> I love you, Bud, I don't mean to come off condescending or otherwise patronizing, but RM3's been growing since the late '60s, early '70s and has experimented very vehemently and documented clearly. Like, he tests everything, and is someone I'd trust to be free from bias. I dunno the conversation between you two, and I know you're hesitant to hear what I have to say, but RM3's completely lucid and fair in his observations. He doesn't even follow current mainstream doctrine, has used outlandish fringe techniques, and those who have visited him have verified that his shit is unlike any weed today, and will likely put you on your ass quicker than pretty much any strain you can grab today.


WTF are you talking about??? I was asking a legitimate question, I'm curious is all. Why are you defending something that doesn't need defending? Did I question his strains? Did I question his ability? I'm thinking you just like to see yourself in print!! Fuck!!!


----------



## bmgnoot (Nov 22, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Man, even I'm envious. Good fuckin' job, bro.
> 
> Riddlers, lead the way!


Gnomes do it best! 

a few from the less than 1 week collection


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Nov 22, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> WTF are you talking about??? I was asking a legitimate question, I'm curious is all. Why are you defending something that doesn't need defending? Did I question his strains? Did I question his ability? I'm thinking you just like to see yourself in print!! Fuck!!!


Dude, reread what I said. Nothing I said was said to incite. I even admitted I didn't know the context of your conversation. I was just giving you some perspective on the man. I was just giving you a basis upon which you can build trust for his understanding of it all. Relax.


----------



## Budley Doright (Nov 22, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Dude, reread what I said. Nothing I said was said to incite. I even admitted I didn't know the context of your conversation. I was just giving you some perspective on the man. I was just giving you a basis upon which you can build trust for his understanding of it all. Relax.


Ummm why would anything I asked require you to think you needed to build trust between us? It was just questions to him about his grow, it was actually RM in his former self that turned me on to T5's a few years ago.


----------



## Budley Doright (Nov 22, 2016)

So this is the thread that I was reading that made me think you had re thought your canopy temps.

"It's not some random thing I pull average two a light of top quality at 71° canopy running 1300ppm at 35% and I'm not the only one @RM3 and now we have @ttystikk changing his as well as he has seen the light. Better quality better yield. I have a agricultural consultant business and genetics company and have worked commercially. 71° enriched at 1300ppm with 35% rh is optimal didn't use to get a bonus if we didn't pull over 2.3lbs a light in rooms of 180 plants 20+ strains 45k watts"


----------



## BobCajun (Nov 22, 2016)

I found that only using the reptile lights for the final 3 days was better than for the final full week. I think it may actually degrade it after a certain amount of time. But then I run them for the full photoperiod. I've read that it works if you run them for 15 minutes of the hour for 4 hours in the middle of the photoperiod. Well, that's only an hour a day total so if you did that for the final 2 weeks it would only be 14 hours total UV. That may be why I only need to run them for 3 days for 12 hours, total 36 hours. Actually I leave the lights on continuously for the last 24-48 hours so it's little more. Anyway, seems to work, though it's just a subjective judgment.


----------



## NewI (Nov 22, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> I found that only using the reptile lights for the final 3 days was better than for the final full week. I think it may actually degrade it after a certain amount of time. But then I run them for the full photoperiod. I've read that it works if you run them for 15 minutes of the hour for 4 hours in the middle of the photoperiod. Well, that's only an hour a day total so if you did that for the final 2 weeks it would only be 14 hours total UV. That may be why I only need to run them for 3 days for 12 hours, total 36 hours. Actually I leave the lights on continuously for the last 24-48 hours so it's little more. Anyway, seems to work, though it's just a subjective judgment.


I think many people run it for 4 min instead on the 15. And it's a bit logical to not do it for 12h. Less is better? You give the planta time to rest/process what's happening? Idk...


----------



## BobCajun (Nov 22, 2016)

NewI said:


> I think many people run it for 4 min instead on the 15. And it's a bit logical to not do it for 12h. Less is better? You give the planta time to rest/process what's happening? Idk...


Possibly, but maybe it's the total dose regardless of how it's delivered.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Nov 22, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> I found that only using the reptile lights for the final 3 days was better than for the final full week. I think it may actually degrade it after a certain amount of time. But then I run them for the full photoperiod. I've read that it works if you run them for 15 minutes of the hour for 4 hours in the middle of the photoperiod. Well, that's only an hour a day total so if you did that for the final 2 weeks it would only be 14 hours total UV. That may be why I only need to run them for 3 days for 12 hours, total 36 hours. Actually I leave the lights on continuously for the last 24-48 hours so it's little more. Anyway, seems to work, though it's just a subjective judgment.


I run five lizard lights the entire photoperiod, veg & flower. 
My latest sativa run looks pretty damn frosty for a bunch of stunted clones that were started outdoors. (They are sleeping or I'd snap a fresh pic.) Durban Poison plants seem to love the UV, but Jack Herer gave me nothing but problems. Not sure if it was a UV sensitivity, but it definitely didn't finish right. Took too long and kept popping bananas. Finished product was disappointing. Now I know why people call it "Jock Horror". I won't be growing that one again.


----------



## RM3 (Nov 23, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> So this is the thread that I was reading that made me think you had re thought your canopy temps.
> 
> "It's not some random thing I pull average two a light of top quality at 71° canopy running 1300ppm at 35% and I'm not the only one @RM3 and now we have @ttystikk changing his as well as he has seen the light. Better quality better yield. I have a agricultural consultant business and genetics company and have worked commercially. 71° enriched at 1300ppm with 35% rh is optimal didn't use to get a bonus if we didn't pull over 2.3lbs a light in rooms of 180 plants 20+ strains 45k watts"


I agree that a "room" temp of 72 and an RH of 32% are the sweet spot which is what he is sayin here but I run the canopy at 90


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## BobCajun (Nov 23, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> I run five lizard lights the entire photoperiod, veg & flower.
> My latest sativa run looks pretty damn frosty for a bunch of stunted clones that were started outdoors. (They are sleeping or I'd snap a fresh pic.) Durban Poison plants seem to love the UV, but Jack Herer gave me nothing but problems. Not sure if it was a UV sensitivity, but it definitely didn't finish right. Took too long and kept popping bananas. Finished product was disappointing. Now I know why people call it "Jock Horror". I won't be growing that one again.


But lizard lights are costly and their UV output degrades within 6 months to a year of steady use. By only using it at the very end I save on bulbs and also get more yield because people have reported decreased yields with UV. Though just subjective, it seems to me like you only need the UV for a few days at the end.


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## Budley Doright (Nov 23, 2016)

bmgnoot said:


> Gnomes do it best!
> 
> a few from the less than 1 week collection
> 
> View attachment 3837139 View attachment 3837140 View attachment 3837141





RM3 said:


> I agree that a "room" temp of 72 and an RH of 32% are the sweet spot which is what he is sayin here but I run the canopy at 90


i guess the 71 canopy was the confusing part, thanks for clarifying


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 23, 2016)

BobCajuhttps://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Repti-Glo-Fluorescent-Terrarium/dp/B00101GDIG/ref=pd_sim_199_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00101GDIG&pd_rd_r=HSXTNDTWESSC8NZNN45H&pd_rd_w=slRTy&pd_rd_wg=mlnEz&psc=1&refRID=HSXTNDTWESSC8NZNN45Hn said:


> But lizard lights are costly and their UV output degrades within 6 months to a year of steady use. By only using it at the very end I save on bulbs and also get more yield because people have reported decreased yields with UV. Though just subjective, it seems to me like you only need the UV for a few days at the end.


Thanks for the tip! I forgot about the CFL bulbs degrading. Do you know how much intensity is lost after six months? I probably need to replace three of my bulbs. Or maybe I'll just run them and replace them all at once in a couple of months.
They really aren't that expensive. I can replace all five bulbs for a little over $60.
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Repti-Glo-Fluorescent-Terrarium/dp/B00101JI2Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1479919503&sr=1-2&keywords=exo+terra+light+bulb
-- edit --
Oops... I use the 150s, which are a couple of dollars more. So it will cost a little over $70 to replace all five.
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Repti-Glo-Fluorescent-Terrarium/dp/B00101GDIG/ref=pd_sim_199_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00101GDIG&pd_rd_r=HSXTNDTWESSC8NZNN45H&pd_rd_w=slRTy&pd_rd_wg=mlnEz&psc=1&refRID=HSXTNDTWESSC8NZNN45H


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2016)

Lol

See you soon, bro!


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## BobCajun (Nov 23, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> Thanks for the tip! I forgot about the CFL bulbs degrading. Do you know how much intensity is lost after six months? I probably need to replace three of my bulbs. Or maybe I'll just run them and replace them all at once in a couple of months.
> They really aren't that expensive. I can replace all five bulbs for a little over $60.
> https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Repti-Glo-Fluorescent-Terrarium/dp/B00101JI2Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1479919503&sr=1-2&keywords=exo+terra+light+bulb
> -- edit --
> ...


I don't know offhand, no. An SPF meter might give a rough indication of the output, though I've read that SPF readings from the bulbs are unusually high.


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 23, 2016)

BobCajun said:


> I don't know offhand, no. An SPF meter might give a rough indication of the output, *though I've read that SPF readings from the bulbs are unusually high*.


No doubt! I was serious when I said those things give me a tan if I spend time around them. Got them all on a single switch now so I can easily turn them off while I'm working in the area.


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## elkamino (Nov 23, 2016)

I'm late to the partay but here's a couple week-old plants w/trichs on first set of non-cotyledon leaves


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## CannaBruh (Nov 23, 2016)

elkamino said:


> I'm late to the partay but here's a couple week-old plants w/trichs on first set of non-cotyledon leaves
> View attachment 3837813 View attachment 3837814


My guy, what is your camera!?


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 23, 2016)

Is that mold/PM in the first pic? (bottom leaf)
Looks suspicious. Tric tips don't spread out like that. They generally stick to whatever touched them.


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## elkamino (Nov 23, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> My guy, what is your camera!?


LOL 

Canon EOS Rebel T4 body w/80-200mm F4L lens. Amateur-level camera w/pro-level lens. To get the serious macro I use a cheapo "lens extension kit". Any digital SLR with detachable lenses can use the extensions, they're just empty tubes that move the lens away from the sensor. So off-brands work fine. They are HARD to use, depth of field is about 1 trichome, so angles, light, focus, aperture are all way more critical than non-macro photography. And auto settings like exposure and focus don't work worth a damn. 

For Canon bodies here's one for $15:
https://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Canon-Extension-Extreme-Close-Ups/dp/B003Y60DZO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1479932173&sr=8-2&keywords=canon+extension+tubes


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## elkamino (Nov 23, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> Is that mold/PM in the first pic? (bottom leaf)
> Looks suspicious. Tric tips don't spread out like that. They generally stick to whatever touched them.


Fortunately NO! 

Its not mold, its the plants version of the placenta, the micro-thin skin that shrouds the cotyledons inside the seed. Looks like mold to me too in the pic but alas I'm in the clear. Haven't had any PM in the garden since I moved to Anchorage from Seward where we got over 90" of rain! Sucked. Despite dehumidifiers and fans we had mold on the plants and carpet and ceiling and got the hell outta there!

I'll dig a pic out that shows it better.


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## elkamino (Nov 23, 2016)

These show that placenta-ish residue better although I admit it still looks suspicious lol.

End of sidetrack.


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 23, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Ummm why would anything I asked require you to think you needed to build trust between us? It was just questions to him about his grow, it was actually RM in his former self that turned me on to T5's a few years ago.


My bad, Bud. Just looking out, y'know. Some people treat him like a lunatic because of his nonmainstream techniques. I just try to stop people from spreading shit they know nothing about, i.e. @MichiganMedGrower who seems to have some kind of misdirected enmity towards RM3.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 23, 2016)

Since you paged me @Olive Drab Green I will respond here. 

@RM3 shared a personal message of mine because I disagree with him and it made him upset. And then he did pretty much the same thing here but made up his side to slander me further. 

I am positive if it was cops or worse he would share his file in a minute. He is already a 2 time loser. 

Certain people are deciding if they want his computer and any files. He promised a secure site. He is the security breach. I told him my past. He should know better if his is true. Nothing I can do about who I told about his shaky ass now. 

He can not be trusted. His whole world is to feed his ego from the Internet. 

The fact that he doesn't have any idea what he is talking about and his weed is not anything like he says is actually besides the point. Rid just happens to grow over bred mids. 

I just knew repeating a negative about him to his silly ass would fuck him up. You all are assuming a lot about me from someone else's version. He just couldn't take the truth and was condescending to me to start all this. And it was just about growing pot. Sorry I actually studied this. He didn't. He makes up what he knows from what his stoned light weight ass sees. But it was still just about growing. 

He has made it very personal. 

i actually don't feel safe with my personal info in his computer. And neither do some others. He is way over his internet scholar head here. 

And still pretending he is in control. 

He seems to forget that legal pot is a sham and we are all drug dealers in the eyes of the law. 

He crossed a very serious line of confidentiality. And he is the dumb ass with the felonies. 

I am sorry to say that he will likely be dealt with. Man he's dumber than I thought when I read his "books" on his "site of elite growing". Lol.


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 23, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Since you paged me @Olive Drab Green I will respond here.
> 
> @RM3 shared a personal message of mine because I disagree with him and it made him upset. And then he did pretty much the same thing here but made up his side to slander me further.
> 
> ...


I have no direct issue with you, but I'm not reading any of that. You're acting really childish and you have the thinnest skin of anyone I have ever met, bro. You get offended too easily and take everything personally. You tried to help my grow, I explained that I appreciated your help, but I knew what was wrong, and it wasn't what you were saying, but I was appreciative of your attempt. Remember what you did next? You threw a fit and rebutted as if I had slighted you. 

You are the fucking problem, bro.


----------



## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 23, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> I have no direct issue with you, but I'm not reading any of that. You're acting really childish and you have the thinnest skin of anyone I have ever met, bro. You get offended too easily and take everything personally. You tried to help my grow, I explained that I appreciated your help, but I knew what was wrong, and it wasn't what you were saying, but I was appreciative of your attempt. Remember what you did next? You threw a fit and rebutted as if I had slighted you.
> 
> You are the fucking problem, bro.


Yeah ok. What happened was I told you you overwatered your amended soil and you said you agreed. Then you blew up my inbox telling me how wrong I am about potting mixes and how you know what you are doing for quite a while even though I didn't respond. 

and it's a shame. You need to listen. But that's the biggest problem with the riddler site. You all pat each other on the back even when you make mistakes so you can feel better rather than read practice and learn.


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 23, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> Yeah ok. What happened was I told you you overwatered your amended soil and you said you agreed. Then you blew up my inbox telling me how wrong I am about potting mixes and how you know what you are doing for quite a while even though I didn't respond.
> 
> and it's a shame. You need to listen. But that's the biggest problem with the riddler site. You all pat each other on the back even when you make mistakes so you can feel better rather than read practice and learn.


Again, not reading your shit. Twist what happened all you want. I have shown the same grow there as I have here, so people know what's up. Fuck yourself.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Nov 23, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Again, not reading your shit. Twist what happened all you want. I have shown the same grow there as I have here, so people know what's up. Fuck yourself.


You paged me kid.


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 23, 2016)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> You paged me kid.


Yeah. To tell you that you talk like someone who's never been smacked in his fucking mouth.


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 23, 2016)

@MichiganMedGrower I'm not trying to treat you like shit, bro. You're a med grower. You obviously have shit you are dealing with. Just slow your role a bit and chill out, eh?


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## Vnsmkr (Nov 23, 2016)

Sometimes I just cant help myself and I need to read what those people who Ive blocked are yapping about..... MIDS LMAO yeah ok, I personally know 1/2 dozen people who been around Rids way and there is no doubt in my mind, they are not smoking mids!!! Thats the funniest shit I have ever read, come on dude, get out of here with that shit!


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## NewI (Nov 23, 2016)

@MichiganMedGrower if rm didn't sent your files to the cops by now.... after all this shit... mb you are safe. Or maybe he wants some rensom?


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2016)

Just got home from Riddle's house, nice smoke session. My biggest gripe about his weed I'll say right up front; he rolls his joints too tight, lol

Flavor is very nice, smell is lovely, smoke is nice n smooth, potency is excellent, it DOES creep on you- less if you already have a high tolerance but it's there- gives a nice buzz and euphoria without couch lock. 

No magic sauce, no mystical potions, no claims of special powers or potency. It's damn fine weed of the kind that would hold a good account of itself against pretty much anything out there.

And in Colorado, that's saying something.


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## NewI (Nov 23, 2016)

You guys should send sone joints to random users )


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2016)

NewI said:


> @MichiganMedGrower if rm didn't sent your files to the cops by now.... after all this shit... mb you are safe. Or maybe he wants some rensom?


Nah. He just wishes the guy would smoke some more and relax already. He doesn't want the drama and it's gone on way too long already. He isn't torturing anyone but himself- and maybe those following along in the hope of learning something about growing weed lol


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## NewI (Nov 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Nah. He just wishes the guy would smoke some more and relax already. He doesn't want the drama and it's gone on way too long already. He isn't torturing anyone but himself- and maybe those following along in the hope of learning something about growing weed lol


I was being sarcastic... I don't like drama myself. But this is the world we live in. Drama at every corner...


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## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2016)

NewI said:


> I was being sarcastic... I don't like drama myself. But this is the world we live in. Drama at every corner...


Some people don't have enough, so they go to great lengths to manufacture it.


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## NewI (Nov 23, 2016)

That michigan fella got me more curious about the quallity of papa weed. Maybe Trump will make USA more easy to visit?? Haha!! Wish I could visit someday..


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## Budley Doright (Nov 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Just got home from Riddle's house, nice smoke session. My biggest gripe about his weed I'll say right up front; he rolls his joints too tight, lol
> 
> Flavor is very nice, smell is lovely, smoke is nice n smooth, potency is excellent, it DOES creep on you- less if you already have a high tolerance but it's there- gives a nice buzz and euphoria without couch lock.
> 
> ...


Great report tty. I do think that there has been some reference to it being possibly the best in the world and that's some pretty big boots to fill . But sure just by looking at it that's it's beyond mid shelf . Just waiting for the day I can try it so I can put my own curiosity to bed .


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## Bbcchance (Nov 24, 2016)

I'm gonna be popping my ctf crosses as soon as I get back from the riu BBQ, Rid didn't promise me any "magic" from the beans, just good weed.....that's pretty much where my expectations are, not sure why anyone would expect more, I am however hoping the heidys unicorn X ctf makes for good ms meds...also not too far fetched a claim, wasn't "promised" it would just told it should based on info from other members experiences with the two strains


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## RM3 (Nov 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Just got home from Riddle's house, nice smoke session. My biggest gripe about his weed I'll say right up front; he rolls his joints too tight, lol
> 
> Flavor is very nice, smell is lovely, smoke is nice n smooth, potency is excellent, it DOES creep on you- less if you already have a high tolerance but it's there- gives a nice buzz and euphoria without couch lock.
> 
> ...


Nice visit as always, was nice to meet @schuylaar and really lookin forward to seeing the adjustments you are bout to make in da garden


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## ttystikk (Nov 24, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Nice visit as always, was nice to meet @schuylaar and really lookin forward to seeing the adjustments you are bout to make in da garden


Thank you, Sir! Always a pleasure to visit, my only regrets are that I didn't have more time- or bring some of my modules for us to play with.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Thank you, Sir! Always a pleasure to visit, my only regrets are that I didn't have more time- or bring some of my modules for us to play with.


hey ty, just bought 2 go green 100watt citizen 2 cob's.. i should get them next week,, whats your opinion on these led's? not the 3070's or 3590's it sais citizen?? you know ive been looking to get a cob for awile now and i wanted to try a small one to start with.. its 4000k using clu48 chips,, i hope u say they are good? i will be using them along with 2 315 watt cmh in my bloom room,, so ill be running 2 315's and 2 100 watt citizens over a 4ftx6ft table,, the 2 315's centered inline and a cob to the left and right to get more light over the outside rows.. ill try to get pics of the lights and then after they are set up...any thoughts?


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## CannaBruh (Nov 24, 2016)

@TheChemist77 you run f13 ever?

what's up with the bbq guys I wanna come


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## ttystikk (Nov 24, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> hey ty, just bought 2 go green 100watt citizen 2 cob's.. i should get them next week,, whats your opinion on these led's? not the 3070's or 3590's it sais citizen?? you know ive been looking to get a cob for awile now and i wanted to try a small one to start with.. its 4000k using clu48 chips,, i hope u say they are good? i will be using them along with 2 315 watt cmh in my bloom room,, so ill be running 2 315's and 2 100 watt citizens over a 4ftx6ft table,, the 2 315's centered inline and a cob to the left and right to get more light over the outside rows.. ill try to get pics of the lights and then after they are set up...any thoughts?


I'm not familiar with go green or citizen chips. I bet it will work great though, based on what others say.


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 24, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> hey ty, just bought 2 go green 100watt citizen 2 cob's.. i should get them next week,, whats your opinion on these led's? not the 3070's or 3590's it sais citizen?? you know ive been looking to get a cob for awile now and i wanted to try a small one to start with.. its 4000k using clu48 chips,, i hope u say they are good? i will be using them along with 2 315 watt cmh in my bloom room,, so ill be running 2 315's and 2 100 watt citizens over a 4ftx6ft table,, the 2 315's centered inline and a cob to the left and right to get more light over the outside rows.. ill try to get pics of the lights and then after they are set up...any thoughts?


How much did it cost? 
I've got $300 burning a hole in my pocket and was thinking about adding a few cobs to my rig. Right now I get most of my blue from MH, but it's a bit underpowered. I need something to compliment a 600w HPS.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 24, 2016)

Chunky Stool said:


> How much did it cost?
> I've got $300 burning a hole in my pocket and was thinking about adding a few cobs to my rig. Right now I get most of my blue from MH, but it's a bit underpowered. I need something to compliment a 600w HPS.


i paid 350 for 2 100 watt 2 cob citizen go greens through flora hydrop-onics,, i found them on amazon then called and talked to Rich, he can find anything even if its not on there site.. i ordered a centurion pro mini and saved 1k then saved 100 on the gogreen's,,,really like flora hydroponics... i also run the 315watt cmh lights and would say 1 315 is close to a 600 watt hps,same coverage but closer to 500 watts in yields...love the ceramics,,this will be my first try with good led


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 24, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> @TheChemist77 you run f13 ever?
> 
> what's up with the bbq guys I wanna come


what is f13? ive run f1's,f2's-even f4's but prefer stabilized seeds,,,lol


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## tstick (Dec 3, 2016)

To this day, some of the very best tasting and most potent herb I have ever smoked was grown under a long shoplight fixture with (if I remember correctly) were some very blue-looking tubes. I don't remember ever seeing huge plants -but ones that looked like, little, hairy trolls from a book -SO covered with trichomes...unreal....but not big yielders....

I was smoking in the mid 70's too and I just remember some very distinct flavors that I rarely run across in more modern hybrid stuff. Skunks, heavy blueberry....weird Oaxacan weed that was very bright green and tasted like moss and dirt...Rich Colombian strains that tasted like caramel and honey flavors -that would expand in your lungs "expando" ....exotic, spicy Asian landrace strains....etc....

I don't know what happened. I guess those old traits made growing that stuff extra risky....and so over the years, all the "stink" was bred out of many strains -just to make it more stealthy to grow. All the low-yielding plants that might have had poor leaf-t-calyx ratios and all that.....I miss the old flavors. Damn...We used to just throw seeds out, by the pound....wasted so much landrace genetics...damn, damn, damn....tsk tsk tsk....damn.


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## twalte (Dec 13, 2016)

I added a UV light last week to my tent with a 1000w HPS running. I'm growing 4 Nirvana AK-48....with UV light over two of the girls and no UV light over the other two. All 4 receive the same nutes. Here are pictures of the trichomes at week 6....UV vs Non UV. Early indications show a significant increase in trichomes on the UV side.

I have moved the laggards under the UV for the final two weeks to see if they catch up or surpass the current UV plants.

I am running a KindLED flower bar micro for the UV and IR.

UV picture
 

Non UV picture. (Best picture I could take off this plant)


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## hillbill (Dec 13, 2016)

Interesting, but increasing light energy should show an increase over the side with less watts and less light. The more valid approach would be to supplement both sides with one having uv diodes and the other not having emitters in that range. Is that possible?


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## twalte (Dec 13, 2016)

hillbill said:


> Interesting, but increasing light energy should show an increase over the side with less watts and less light. The more valid approach would be to supplement both sides with one having uv diodes and the other not having emitters in that range. Is that possible?


Good point HillBill. The light bar added 60 watts to the left side of the tent and I'm running my HPS at 1100 watts right now. Unfortunately, that was the best that I could do with this setup as I only purchased one KindLED bar to test it. Even if it is partially due to the higher wattage, I'm extremely pleased with the early results. I swapped the UV and non UV plants to see if they will catch up


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## hillbill (Dec 13, 2016)

Directional uv seems as if it may be safer if the diodes are efficient and durable. I've read many accounts in the past of burnt/brown emitters but not paid that much attention lately. Those failures did seem to be occurring on the lower end gimmic stuff. Am curious here and will be present.


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## GreenSanta (Dec 20, 2016)

I have grown the very most resinous buds I have ever seen, with the right genetics, with COBs maybe other various side lighting hitting them. I don't see how adding UV could make the buds any frostier when they are as frosty as can be. I can see UV changing the cannabinoids profile or even changing the terpenes a little but I think if you are using UVs stricktly to increase overall resin I dont know that it really is the answer.


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## NewI (Dec 20, 2016)

GreenSanta said:


> I have grown the very most resinous buds I have ever seen, with the right genetics, with COBs maybe other various side lighting hitting them. I don't see how adding UV could make the buds any frostier when they are as frosty as can be. I can see UV changing the cannabinoids profile or even changing the terpenes a little but I think if you are using UVs stricktly to increase overall resin I dont know that it really is the answer.


Well the thread sais exactly that... for more trichomes you should try high K blues.


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## Rayne (Dec 29, 2016)

GreenSanta said:


> I have grown the very most resinous buds I have ever seen, with the right genetics, with COBs maybe other various side lighting hitting them. I don't see how adding UV could make the buds any frostier when they are as frosty as can be. I can see UV changing the cannabinoids profile or even changing the terpenes a little but I think if you are using UVs stricktly to increase overall resin I dont know that it really is the answer.


You have to realize: 1. Trichomes are a defense mechanism of the plant. Ultra Violet radiation activates the genetics to produce more trichomes for the sake of self preservation while it is waiting to be pollinated. 2. Excluding the days when there is very dense cloud cover... Outdoor grows are exposed to UV radiation everyday.

Cannabis grown with UV radiation, from start to finish, gives that old school soaring head high of the 60's and 70's your grandfather and or grandmother might remember.

If you are the type of grower that wants "Outdoor" quality cannabis while being grown indoors... add UV radiation.


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## Tyleb173rd (Dec 29, 2016)

Rayne said:


> You have to realize: 1. Trichomes are a defense mechanism of the plant. Ultra Violet radiation activates the genetics to produce more trichomes for the sake of self preservation while it is waiting to be pollinated. 2. Excluding the days when there is very dense cloud cover... Outdoor grows are exposed to UV radiation everyday.
> 
> Cannabis grown with UV radiation, from start to finish, gives that old school soaring head high of the 60's and 70's your grandfather and or grandmother might remember.
> 
> If you are the type of grower that wants "Outdoor" quality cannabis while being grown indoors... add UV radiation.


Do you grow indoor and use supplemental UV? If so how do you do it?


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## Olive Drab Green (Dec 29, 2016)

I don't use UV at all, unless 3500k 80/90 CRI incorporates it.


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## jeepster1993 (Dec 29, 2016)

About a year ago I was given a small stick light made of 4 different color LEDs. It came from China, I am sure.
It is 100 1 watt LEDs. In deep red, blue, UV and IR. 5 sided.
I use it in the last month of flower.
Does it work? I don't know. It doesn't hurt except the 100 watts it uses. The tent is a 3x3 with 35 watts per square foot of cob 3500K leds and this 100 watt supplement brings my wattage per sq/ft to 50. I like 50.


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## ttystikk (Dec 29, 2016)

jeepster1993 said:


> About a year ago I was given a small stick light made of 4 different color LEDs. It came from China, I am sure.
> It is 100 1 watt LEDs. In deep red, blue, UV and IR. 5 sided.
> I use it in the last month of flower.
> Does it work? I don't know. It doesn't hurt except the 100 watts it uses. The tent is a 3x3 with 35 watts per square foot of cob 3500K leds and this 100 watt supplement brings my wattage per sq/ft to 50. I like 50.


Would love to see some specs on it.


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## pineappleman420 (Dec 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Would love to see some specs on it.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hight-Quality-E27-80W-150W-Red-Blue-White-IR-UV-LED-Grow-Light-For-Flowering-Plant/32456446345.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.iN7Wkj&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_116_10065_117_10068_114_115_113_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10033_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_427_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10107_10050_10106_10051-10033,searchweb201603_4,afswitch_4&btsid=76c8dab4-54d9-46b4-935c-203ea33056ec


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Dec 29, 2016)

I really want to add UV to my veg and flower COBs before pheno hunting Durban Poison.


----------



## jeepster1993 (Dec 29, 2016)

pineappleman420 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hight-Quality-E27-80W-150W-Red-Blue-White-IR-UV-LED-Grow-Light-For-Flowering-Plant/32456446345.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.iN7Wkj&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_116_10065_117_10068_114_115_113_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10033_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_427_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10107_10050_10106_10051-10033,searchweb201603_4,afswitch_4&btsid=76c8dab4-54d9-46b4-935c-203ea33056ec


That is it.
It is NOT my grow light. It is a color spectrum supplement only and only during the last month of flower.
The plants don't mind.


----------



## pineappleman420 (Dec 29, 2016)

I just ordered one of those bars... had some money burning a hole in my pocket and i said what the hell... it was a choice between light or seeds and since the seeds i want are'nt available yet i ordered more light lol


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## ttystikk (Dec 29, 2016)

jeepster1993 said:


> That is it.
> It is NOT my grow light. It is a color spectrum supplement only and only during the last month of flower.
> The plants don't mind.


If it really pulls 150W I'd want to try some. Do you have a wattage meter?


----------



## pineappleman420 (Dec 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If it really pulls 150W I'd want to try some. Do you have a wattage meter?


When it comes in the mail if you make it to loveland area id let you check it out.


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## ttystikk (Dec 29, 2016)

pineappleman420 said:


> When it comes in the mail if you make it to loveland area id let you check it out.


I can damn near walk there, brother- I'm in the Fort!


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## jeepster1993 (Dec 30, 2016)

pineappleman420 said:


> When it comes in the mail if you make it to loveland area id let you check it out.





ttystikk said:


> I can damn near walk there, brother- I'm in the Fort!


If you all ever want to slum it a bit and see mine(my light...) in action......South Denver.


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## Olive Drab Green (Dec 30, 2016)

jeepster1993 said:


> If you all ever want to slum it a bit and see mine(my light...) in action......South Denver.


Only if you promise not to try to rape me. And/or have some REALLY good shit on hand.


----------



## Bbcchance (Dec 30, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Only if you promise not to try to rape me. And/or have some REALLY good shit on hand.


So as long as it's REALLY good shit rapes not off the table? I like your style ODG


----------



## jeepster1993 (Dec 30, 2016)

What you talkin 'bout?

I have the dankest shit in Colorado.






(I actually work fairly hard on that.)


----------



## TheChemist77 (Dec 30, 2016)

boulderlamp is now offering an uv led upgrade to the 315watt cmh fixtures.. 500 bucks so its very pricey its a led strip that attaches to both sides of the fixture and is plugged into the ballast.. look on boulder lamps site lec pluss led


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## Dr. Who (Dec 30, 2016)

jeepster1993 said:


> About a year ago I was given a small stick light made of 4 different color LEDs. It came from China, I am sure.
> It is 100 1 watt LEDs. In deep red, blue, UV and IR. 5 sided.
> I use it in the last month of flower.
> Does it work? I don't know. It doesn't hurt except the 100 watts it uses. The tent is a 3x3 with 35 watts per square foot of cob 3500K leds and this 100 watt supplement brings my wattage per sq/ft to 50. I like 50.


NOT for UV radiation in the wavelengths we need...It does not cover the proper bandwidths...you need. They only cover a small range of UVA......You want UVB at 280 - 315nm.


----------



## TheChemist77 (Dec 30, 2016)

*CDL Plus LED Grow Light – The Best of Both Worlds*
CDL agro grow light is two times more efficient than HPS grow light. Further enhancement of efficiency can be achieved by augmenting a portion of the CDL red light spectrum. The potency or taste of crops can also be improved by augmenting certain CDL spectrum. Tailor-made augmenting LEDs may even fertilize plants, control pests and mold, and boost shelf life of fruits and vegetables.
The augmenting light source is attached to the lower frame of CDL reflector hood for convenience and uniform illumination. The power source for augmenting light is located in the CDL ballast housing, mounted on the top frame.



Although other light sources such as fluorescent lamps may be used for augmenting CDL spectrum, LEDs are primarily used as augmenting light source to achieve superior color precision and high efficiency.
The following explains why red color augmentation increases plant photosynthesis:
The spectral curve of the CDL resembles sunlight providing 65% of its light energy around blue and red spectrum. The other 35% energy primarily in green and yellow regions. Most of the red light energy contains in between 600-680 nm.



*Maximizing yield with less energy*
Emerson effect (http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/39/1/10.full.pdf)
Professor Robert Emerson and coworkers in 1957 discovered that photosynthetic efficiency could be made to increase by simultaneous illumination of orange-red (660 nm) and far red (680 nm) light. Furthermore, Emerson observed that the yield obtained using both red and far-red light simultaneously was much higher than the sum of the yields obtained with red and far-red light separately.
Two different reaction centers or photochemical events are involved in photosynthesis, namely PS1 and PS2. PS1 is driven by far red light (680+ nm) PS2 is driven by red light (660 nm). Increased photosynthesis occurs when both events are driven simultaneously or in rapid succession.



*Increasing potency*
There is sufficient scientific evidence that the concentration of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in both leaf and floral tissues increased with UV-B dose in drug-type cannabis plants. It is anticipated that narrowband source of UV-B is more effective than wide band UV-B.

BLI’s CDL+LED grow lights are engineered to incorporate UV-B LED arrays in the lower frame mounted panels. Linear UV fluorescent lamps can also be attached in these panels.

*Research articles:*
UV-B RADIATION EFFECTS ON PHOTOSYNTHESIS, GROWTH and CANNABINOID PRODUCTION OF TWO Cannabis sativa CHEMOTYPES by Lydon, Teramura, and Coffman, January 2008:
(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-1097.1987.tb04757.x/abstract)

How to Use a UV Lamp to Increase THC by SIRIUS J, High Times, MAR, 2015

Cannabis researchers in Maryland exposed pot plants to ultraviolet radiation to see what would happen. They found that increasing doses of UVB radiation, a natural part of sunlight, made the plants produce almost 28% more THC in the buds.
(http://www.hightimes.com/read/grow-hack-how-use-uv-lamp-increase-thc)

The effects of light-emitting diode lighting on greenhouse plant growth and quality
by Margit Olle, Akvile Viršile, Agricultural and Food Science, 2013

Red and blue light are basal in the lighting spectra for green vegetables and tomato, cucumber, and pepper transplants; far red light, important for photomorphogenetic processes in plants also results in growth promotion. However, theoretically unprofitable spectral parts as green or yellow also have significant physiological effects on investigated plants.
(http://ojs.tsv.fi/index.php/AFS/article/view/7897)



Boulderlamp, Inc., 555 Aspen Ridge Dr, Lafayette, CO 80026


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Dec 30, 2016)

I'm ready to pull the trigger for supplemental UV. I currently have a 4x4 grow section with 800w COBs. Would a single Pure UV bulb in the middle of that frame be enough? Two single fixtures on each side or a double light fixture in the middle? Should I get UVA and the Pure UV?


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## Rayne (Dec 30, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Do you grow indoor and use supplemental UV? If so how do you do it?


Do I grow indoors? Have read my on going web based grow journal yet?

As to your other question... your answer is found below. If you read with intention of also comprehending what you read. Your answer and a number of other answers can found in the web based grow journal I keep updating. (See the bottom of my signature for the web link to "My current grow")



Tyleb173rd said:


> I'm ready to pull the trigger for supplemental UV. I currently have a 4x4 grow section with 800w COBs. Would a single Pure UV bulb in the middle of that frame be enough? Two single fixtures on each side or a double light fixture in the middle? Should I get UVA and the Pure UV?


In my small grow space(about 3 square feet) there are two UV b/a CFL bulbs that hang down and cover opposite sides of the plant. If I recall correctly... RM3 has one agromax PURE UV bulb in one slot of every T5 fixture that he has hanging over his plants.

Ultimately how many start with is up to you.


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Dec 30, 2016)

Rayne said:


> Do I grow indoors? Have read my on going web based grow journal yet?
> 
> As to your other question... your answer is found below. If you read with intention of also comprehending what you read. Your answer and a number of other answers can found in the web based grow journal I keep updating. (See the bottom of my signature for the web link to "My current grow")
> 
> ...


Thanks


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## ttystikk (Dec 30, 2016)

jeepster1993 said:


> If you all ever want to slum it a bit and see mine(my light...) in action......South Denver.


I'm always down to visit!


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## jeepster1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

I put the little stick light with the different colored LEDs in it into the tent today. Today is a month into the 12/12 and is about when I start using it.
This is Dogbud today.


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## Jay63 (Jan 7, 2017)

Is there a reason you guys are using the t5's instead of t8's or t12's? I manged to get a few 4' fixtures from work a while ago and finally got one wired up with some reptile bulbs so im excited to see what kind of a difference it makes as im on day 9 or 10 of flower. The point of my question is these bulbs here: https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/3475/F-25T8BL.html
They are only 25w but its only $6.73 a bulb and they seem to have a decent spectrum. they have a 40w t12 as well, and seeing as my fixture does t5/t8/t12, is there a good reason for sticking with the t5's other than available space?


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## RM3 (Jan 7, 2017)

Jay63 said:


> Is there a reason you guys are using the t5's instead of t8's or t12's?


available wattage, heat, penetration, the list goes on and on


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## Jay63 (Jan 7, 2017)

RM3 said:


> available wattage, heat, penetration, the list goes on and on


I guess i jumped the gun on the bulb lol but it should at least help me finish out this run.


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## ttystikk (Jan 7, 2017)

RM3 said:


> available wattage, heat, penetration, the list goes on and on


Better efficiency, too.

Hope you're staying warm down there, brother!


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## Olive Drab Green (Jan 7, 2017)

Colorado Thunder Fuck
by @RM3
Flower Week 7 Day 1 (yesterday)


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## ttystikk (Jan 7, 2017)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Colorado Thunder Fuck
> by @RM3
> Flower Week 7 Day 1 (yesterday)
> 
> View attachment 3870342 View attachment 3870343 View attachment 3870344 View attachment 3870345 View attachment 3870347 View attachment 3870348


Totally gnarly, dude! Healthy, too!


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## Olive Drab Green (Jan 7, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Totally gnarly, dude! Healthy, too!


Thanks, bro! Just trying to make Rid and you guys proud!


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## Jay63 (Jan 7, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Better efficiency, too.
> 
> Hope you're staying warm down there, brother!


Its nice and toasty in here and i dont see any snow yet so the day is looking up so far. Im not too worried about efficiency because i wont be able to notice after i finally get some cobs out there. is there that big of a difference between the t5 to t8? 
I guess i wasnt looking close enough at the data sheets but as i said not as important as optimizing the environment after going at least partially to leds. and that reptile bulb was 23 i think at the local pet shop which isnt too bad. they might have the t5's for cheaper too but it wont come close to that $6.73 sadly.


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## Bbcchance (Jan 7, 2017)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Colorado Thunder Fuck
> by @RM3
> Flower Week 7 Day 1 (yesterday)
> 
> View attachment 3870342 View attachment 3870343 View attachment 3870344 View attachment 3870345 View attachment 3870347 View attachment 3870348


Nice looking tree ODG! Fostie as fook too!


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## Olive Drab Green (Jan 7, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> Nice looking tree ODG! Fostie as fook too!


Hey, thanks, bro! Been a minute!


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## Bbcchance (Jan 7, 2017)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Hey, thanks, bro! Been a minute!


Been doing some renovations and haven't had the space to plant, almost done now though, getting very anxious, just don't want to try to be doing any construction around seedlings for safety reasons so I'm gonna make sure all the ins and outs are taken care of first. I've been lurking around


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## Olive Drab Green (Jan 7, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> Been doing some renovations and haven't had the space to plant, almost done now though, getting very anxious, just don't want to try to be doing any construction around seedlings for safety reasons so I'm gonna make sure all the ins and outs are taken care of first. I've been lurking around


I was just concerned. You, SRH, Gary, Anne, UB, ttystikk, and a few others were pretty much my first contact with this site.


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## RM3 (Jan 8, 2017)

Wow, High Times finally got something right 

http://hightimes.com/grow/nicos-nuggets-how-to-compare-cannabis-grow-lights/


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## Bbcchance (Jan 8, 2017)

RM3 said:


> Wow, High Times finally got something right
> 
> http://hightimes.com/grow/nicos-nuggets-how-to-compare-cannabis-grow-lights/


About time right? Pretty sure I've read that same speach 40 times in the newbie central section from the members here Everytime someone asked which light should I buy!


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## ttystikk (Jan 8, 2017)

RM3 said:


> Wow, High Times finally got something right
> 
> http://hightimes.com/grow/nicos-nuggets-how-to-compare-cannabis-grow-lights/


They're positioning themselves for the inevitable day when light bulbs are outlawed.


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## jeepster1993 (Jan 8, 2017)

The temps dropped in my poorly heated basement, where the tents are. Been struggling to raise them. The plants slowed down...a lot.
My solution was to cut back on the exhaust. I now run the exhaust fan 15 minutes every hour. It is connected to the carbon filter so the smell has escaped the tent a bit, dogbud reaks. Side effect- humidity, which does scare me a bit. Added more small internal fans.
The temp is now in the low 70's, like 72-73*. From the high 50's(59ish, 57). Light time temps.
Today.


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 9, 2017)

I pulled the trigger on the UV today. I bought one 4ft bulb for 1/4 of my flower room, tucked between 400w COB build. It's just enough to cover 3 plants in a 2x4 configuration. For my VEG tent I bought 2, 2foot bulbs for my freshly rooted clones that go in 1G containers. I also bought a 4 ft bulb that will go in the middle of my 3x3 framework from Timber. This hangs above 6, 7Gallon pots that are on deck for the flower room.

Does anyone think that I could keep the UV on the entire flowering time if............................ a clone that has had UV for 15 minutes an hour in 1G containers, then every other 15 minutes above the 7G pots....then keep the UV on the entire 12 hours after putting them in the flower room?


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 9, 2017)

The light is not very bright.


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 9, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> The light is not very bright.


UV is outside human visible spectrum.


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## mr. childs (Jan 9, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> I pulled the trigger on the UV today. I bought one 4ft bulb for 1/4 of my flower room, tucked between 400w COB build. It's just enough to cover 3 plants in a 2x4 configuration. For my VEG tent I bought 2, 2foot bulbs for my freshly rooted clones that go in 1G containers. I also bought a 4 ft bulb that will go in the middle of my 3x3 framework from Timber. This hangs above 6, 7Gallon pots that are on deck for the flower room.
> 
> Does anyone think that I could keep the UV on the entire flowering time if............................ a clone that has had UV for 15 minutes an hour in 1G containers, then every other 15 minutes above the 7G pots....then keep the UV on the entire 12 hours after putting them in the flower room?


i run mine for the full duration of 12/12, be careful though, they can & will make things crispy very quickly if placed within too close of proximity to the girls...


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 10, 2017)

RM3 said:


> Wow, High Times finally got something right
> 
> http://hightimes.com/grow/nicos-nuggets-how-to-compare-cannabis-grow-lights/



And then you look at the little column on the right and see that the alphabet boys have been at work behind the public's back again!!

http://hightimes.com/news/dea-quietly-classifies-cbd-oil-as-schedule-1-drug/

Sounds like a new thread in toke n talk to me..


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 10, 2017)

Anyway,,,,,I'll be damned if the Feds call for closeout on making Merc vapors isn't starting to make the things harder to find and more expensive to buy! Went over to one of the pre-raid ops to find a case of 400W GE's and sure as shit they're gone! Sigh,,,,,,Looking more and more like I'm going Agromax and grow shorter plants to fit the 3' UV too strong zone!

Say, are the 2' ers able to be closer? What about closer with less "on" times for the 4 footers? That work? 

Stupid Feds!


----------



## davillains (Jan 10, 2017)

hey guys,
so I'm on week 7 on a 10-11 week strain (nirvana blackjack) and I got an exo terra UVB200 26w bulb on a timer yesterday with incremental exposure totaling 30 minutes in the 12hours. Today I check on my buds and there are clear signs of premature ....maturation  Some amber trichs here and there and alot more brown pistils that were not there before.... Am I doing it all wrong ? whats the deal ? Cheers


----------



## mr. childs (Jan 11, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> Anyway,,,,,I'll be damned if the Feds call for closeout on making Merc vapors isn't starting to make the things harder to find and more expensive to buy! Went over to one of the pre-raid ops to find a case of 400W GE's and sure as shit they're gone! Sigh,,,,,,Looking more and more like I'm going Agromax and grow shorter plants to fit the 3' UV too strong zone!
> 
> Say, are the 2' ers able to be closer? What about closer with less "on" times for the 4 footers? That work?
> 
> Stupid Feds!


i use the 2ft agro bulbs. respect them for what they are, theyll bite you...


----------



## mr. childs (Jan 11, 2017)

davillains said:


> hey guys,
> so I'm on week 7 on a 10-11 week strain (nirvana blackjack) and I got an exo terra UVB200 26w bulb on a timer yesterday with incremental exposure totaling 30 minutes in the 12hours. Today I check on my buds and there are clear signs of premature ....maturation  Some amber trichs here and there and alot more brown pistils that were not there before.... Am I doing it all wrong ? whats the deal ? Cheers
> View attachment 3873030


it happens pretty fast when placed in close proximity. i always wanted the uv200's as i used the 150's years ago. just place them a little further away. i left mine on for the full duration though...


----------



## Chunky Stool (Jan 11, 2017)

davillains said:


> hey guys,
> so I'm on week 7 on a 10-11 week strain (nirvana blackjack) and I got an exo terra UVB200 26w bulb on a timer yesterday with incremental exposure totaling 30 minutes in the 12hours. Today I check on my buds and there are clear signs of premature ....maturation  Some amber trichs here and there and alot more brown pistils that were not there before.... Am I doing it all wrong ? whats the deal ? Cheers
> View attachment 3873030


Gotta keep those bulbs at least 12" from your plants. I run five of them in my tent, but make sure plants never get too close. 
I have found that "sunburned" leaves are more susceptible to PM.


----------



## davillains (Jan 11, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Gotta keep those bulbs at least 12" from your plants. I run five of them in my tent, but make sure plants never get too close.
> I have found that "sunburned" leaves are more susceptible to PM.


Chunky I suspected as much, I had the bulb 19" from canopy ...
Do you run your UVBs constantly or on a timer ?


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 11, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i use the 2ft agro bulbs. respect them for what they are, theyll bite you...


 Well, I found a 12 pack of my old 400w Merc vapors.....18-20 inch's (min) away and 2-3 hr on time during the "peak" hrs..... or 15 min an hr - bookended by no on times to total 8 times.....I don't like that for the ware stress from spiking on all the time...

But still, I understand the respect them thing, for the Agro 2 footers...Are they still 36 inch's away by limit?


----------



## Chunky Stool (Jan 11, 2017)

davillains said:


> Chunky I suspected as much, I had the bulb 19" from canopy ...
> Do you run your UVBs constantly or on a timer ?


Hmm... 19" should have been enough. Maybe your plants need time to adjust. My plants are always exposed to UV, so they get used to it. I frequently leave the tent open, so even my dome of seedlings & cuttings get a tiny dose of UV. They dig it. 
I'm running bare bulb MH right now, so lizard lights are switched off. Two weeks after the flip, I'll switch to HPS and leave the lizard lights on the entire time HID lights are on.


----------



## mr. childs (Jan 11, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> Well, I found a 12 pack of my old 400w Merc vapors.....18-20 inch's (min) away and 2-3 hr on time during the "peak" hrs..... or 15 min an hr - bookended by no on times to total 8 times.....I don't like that for the ware stress from spiking on all the time...
> 
> But still, I understand the respect them thing, for the Agro 2 footers...Are they still 36 inch's away by limit?


i had mine 12 inches away like i used to keep the cfls, fried some tops, 75% uvb + 25%uva = no joke but well worth it..


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 12, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i had mine 12 inches away like i used to keep the cfls, fried some tops, 75% uvb + 25%uva = no joke but well worth it..


How long are your "on" times?
First thing?
Mid lighting time?
End of lighting time?

I mean, i have to prepare to change over sometime. might as well find whats working for others with out toasting plants to learn.

I suppose i should buckle down and read all the 38 other pages (head spins) lol.


----------



## mr. childs (Jan 12, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> How long are your "on" times?
> First thing?
> Mid lighting time?
> End of lighting time?
> ...


i always run uvb from day one of 12/12, i need to run it day 1 of 24/0
just take heed of the distance... gradually getting closer is the way to go, hindsight is 20-20, sometimes even 20-10 like a fighter pilots vision...


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Jan 12, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> How long are your "on" times?
> First thing?
> Mid lighting time?
> End of lighting time?
> ...


All the info seems confusing. Plus, there are so many others that talk about UV but don't use it. So far I've seen one or two growers that have showed their UV lights and the bud that it grows. 

I said fuck it and added UV to 75% of my VEG tent and 25% of my flower. Slowly over time I'll increase the bursts of UV and I'll eventually start giving UV from the moment they root. 

We have the room and space to fuck around with lighting so we take advantage of it. In a year I should have some decent data and hopefully better meds.


----------



## jeepster1993 (Jan 12, 2017)

The temps got a little low for a week and had a negative effect on my babies.They slowed down, a lot.
Have since made corrections, but it happened.
The corrections were to mostly stop venting the tent and let it keep its own heat and that has worked.(there is some smell leaking out though)

This is today, almost 5 weeks into 12/12...
Like I said, a bit behind.


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 12, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> All the info seems confusing. Plus, there are so many others that talk about UV but don't use it. So far I've seen one or two growers that have showed their UV lights and the bud that it grows.
> 
> I said fuck it and added UV to 75% of my VEG tent and 25% of my flower. Slowly over time I'll increase the bursts of UV and I'll eventually start giving UV from the moment they root.
> 
> We have the room and space to fuck around with lighting so we take advantage of it. In a year I should have some decent data and hopefully better meds.


 Yeah I hear that too.

I got 2 6 packs of my old school Merc vapors coming. Those will last me awhile....By the time I use those up. I can get some intel from youse and Riddle and ttystikk ......I waddle through my old way for now....THANKS!


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 12, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> Yeah I hear that too.
> 
> I got 2 6 packs of my old school Merc vapors coming. Those will last me awhile....By the time I use those up. I can get some intel from youse and Riddle and ttystikk ......I waddle through my old way for now....THANKS!


I want to hear about how things go with the MV; this was a strong contender in my project until I saw the Agromax Pure UV.


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Jan 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I want to hear about how things go with the MV; this was a strong contender in my project until I saw the Agromax Pure UV.


The difference between the Agromax and the new Hortilux FS-UV is night and day. I bought 2ft Hortilux for the young girls and the Agromax is for the more mature teens.


----------



## mr. childs (Jan 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I want to hear about how things go with the MV; this was a strong contender in my project until I saw the Agromax Pure UV.


can you believe that the old agromax bulb was 100% uvb & thats it! htg stopped making them years ago, along with realizing that uva is also beneficial


----------



## tstick (Jan 12, 2017)

I just recently came across the realization that my old 400 watt MH bulb/fixture/ballast combo is a real UV emitter! I'm using my Timber CXB 400R, but I don't think it puts out much UV light.....SOOOOoooo I think I'm going to switch out the COB for the MH for the last week of flower to try and enhance/ripen that last bit of "stuff" in the plant with that excessive UV. I've heard that finishing the plants with MH light is a fairly common practice, actually....I've got the stuff...brand new bulb....What the heck?....right?

Also, the price on the 400 watt bulbs has gone waaaaay down since back in the 80s when I first started using them! I got one for around $20...on Amazon no less! Too easy to not give it a shot!


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 13, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I want to hear about how things go with the MV; this was a strong contender in my project until I saw the Agromax Pure UV.


Well, you saw some years back my older work with it.
I was doing rather close to plants and around (notes not in front of me) 10min an hr every Hr of lights on (I never liked the "on-off" spiking all day - hard on bulbs and ballast's). I have settled into a very close to RM3's style of "on" 3-4 hrs at outdoor "peak" lighting times at further away. Like 24+". They have been running between the 1K's and I was turning the plants every day 1/4 turn. That got to be a pain, and sense the "raid". I have been building a flid up support that brings the bulb horizontal under the 1K hoods. I simply flip them up, let the "brace" out to hold them up and leave it there, with the MV on it's own timer. No shading loss from the MV is of any particular effective lighting loss when the MV is off. Now when you have as many as 8 of these running per room. You don't tend to want to go in there at that time period!



tstick said:


> I just recently came across the realization that my old 400 watt MH bulb/fixture/ballast combo is a real UV emitter! I'm using my Timber CXB 400R, but I don't think it puts out much UV light.....SOOOOoooo I think I'm going to switch out the COB for the MH for the last week of flower to try and enhance/ripen that last bit of "stuff" in the plant with that excessive UV. I've heard that finishing the plants with MH light is a fairly common practice, actually....I've got the stuff...brand new bulb....What the heck?....right?
> 
> Also, the price on the 400 watt bulbs has gone waaaaay down since back in the 80s when I first started using them! I got one for around $20...on Amazon no less! Too easy to not give it a shot!



I tried that and found that the glass in reflectors. Block too much of the UV.....but, if run longer then those last 2 weeks. It does do acceptably. That is whats given rise to the "Dual arc" bulbs out in the last cpl of years.
You get 2 things from those! A more "positive" finish with the full bloom period getting usable UV. That whole bloom exposure makes up for the "late" bloom with things like the MV and the Agro.....yer higher UV output has a more profound effect (I'm thinking). I'm going to get a cpl of those "dual arc's" to confirm my theory at my next "comfortable" available time! I'm sure the deeper blue spectrum's are helping that more "positive" finish also!

Anyway, that's where I'm at now, and if the dual's do well, maybe no need for any other supplemental UV.....THAT would save $! Even with my #'s cut in half for "compliance". Dropping 3200K off the E-bill would be nice!  That will be later in the year....Just getting rolling good again, and building my rotation strains back up is still going on. Shit, I got 4 more strains to even start yet. Gotta work that rotation in right!


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 13, 2017)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that any plastics like polycarbonates are worn out and yellowed up badly by UV, and the MV/Agro power's will do it quickly! Store any plastic away from the bloom area when using UV!


----------



## Chunky Stool (Jan 13, 2017)

tstick said:


> I just recently came across the realization that my old 400 watt MH bulb/fixture/ballast combo is a real UV emitter! I'm using my Timber CXB 400R, but I don't think it puts out much UV light.....SOOOOoooo I think I'm going to switch out the COB for the MH for the last week of flower to try and enhance/ripen that last bit of "stuff" in the plant with that excessive UV. I've heard that finishing the plants with MH light is a fairly common practice, actually....I've got the stuff...brand new bulb....What the heck?....right?
> 
> Also, the price on the 400 watt bulbs has gone waaaaay down since back in the 80s when I first started using them! I got one for around $20...on Amazon no less! Too easy to not give it a shot!


You've also gotta run MH bare bulb to get the UV. 
When I spend a lot of time in my grow area, I actually get a tan from the UV! 
Always wear your shades kiddies.


----------



## tstick (Jan 13, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> Well, you saw some years back my older work with it.
> I was doing rather close to plants and around (notes not in front of me) 10min an hr every Hr of lights on (I never liked the "on-off" spiking all day - hard on bulbs and ballast's). I have settled into a very close to RM3's style of "on" 3-4 hrs at outdoor "peak" lighting times at further away. Like 24+". They have been running between the 1K's and I was turning the plants every day 1/4 turn. That got to be a pain, and sense the "raid". I have been building a flid up support that brings the bulb horizontal under the 1K hoods. I simply flip them up, let the "brace" out to hold them up and leave it there, with the MV on it's own timer. No shading loss from the MV is of any particular effective lighting loss when the MV is off. Now when you have as many as 8 of these running per room. You don't tend to want to go in there at that time period!
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah my reflector is an old one that doesn't have any glass in it so I should be good to go.


----------



## pineappleman420 (Jan 13, 2017)

jeepster1993 said:


> The temps got a little low for a week and had a negative effect on my babies.They slowed down, a lot.
> Have since made corrections, but it happened.
> The corrections were to mostly stop venting the tent and let it keep its own heat and that has worked.(there is some smell leaking out though)
> 
> ...


So i got my bulb and i and my plants are loving it so far...


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## mr. childs (Jan 14, 2017)

tstick said:


> I just recently came across the realization that my old 400 watt MH bulb/fixture/ballast combo is a real UV emitter! I'm using my Timber CXB 400R, but I don't think it puts out much UV light.....SOOOOoooo I think I'm going to switch out the COB for the MH for the last week of flower to try and enhance/ripen that last bit of "stuff" in the plant with that excessive UV. I've heard that finishing the plants with MH light is a fairly common practice, actually....I've got the stuff...brand new bulb....What the heck?....right?
> 
> Also, the price on the 400 watt bulbs has gone waaaaay down since back in the 80s when I first started using them! I got one for around $20...on Amazon no less! Too easy to not give it a shot!


at one point in time i bought a cheap 14k metal halide bulb from amazon. like the actinic bulbs rm3 & illumination used to use


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## mr. childs (Jan 14, 2017)

pineappleman420 said:


> So i got my bulb and i and my plants are loving it so far... View attachment 3875348


i wonder how detrimental the agro uv will be to the recycled plastic on those airpots, plus its pretty close, be careful please...


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## pineappleman420 (Jan 14, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i wonder how detrimental the agro uv will be to the recycled plastic on those airpots, plus its pretty close, be careful please...


didnt even think about the plastic pots... and yeah had to rearrange things a bit from the intensity... first go with a led


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## tstick (Jan 14, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> at one point in time i bought a cheap 14k metal halide bulb from amazon. like the actinic bulbs rm3 & illumination used to use


My bulb is a Sylvania/Osram Metalarc MS400HOR -says it's 4200K. Sounds like yours was a LOT bluer than mine!


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## mr. childs (Jan 15, 2017)

tstick said:


> My bulb is a Sylvania/Osram Metalarc MS400HOR -says it's 4200K. Sounds like yours was a LOT bluer than mine!


it was a violet like color, cheapie chinese bulb for aquariums. wish i had a meter to get it tested to see the scientific output of it. it did make the girls frosty though... i love these pure uv though, wish i could find the originals somewhere...


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## mr. childs (Jan 15, 2017)

tstick said:


> My bulb is a Sylvania/Osram Metalarc MS400HOR -says it's 4200K. Sounds like yours was a LOT bluer than mine!


i also ran a cheapie 5500k aquarium bulb for veg... i figured with them originally being for aquariums, they would have even less protective coating to block the uv they emitted...


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## Bbcchance (Jan 15, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> it was a violet like color, cheapie chinese bulb for aquariums. wish i had a meter to get it tested to see the scientific output of it. it did make the girls frosty though...View attachment 3876729 i love these pure uv though, wish i could find the originals somewhere...


Agromax still has a pure uv t5 
http://www.htgsupply.com/products/agromax-pure-uv-t5-bulb-4-foot


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## mr. childs (Jan 15, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> Agromax still has a pure uv t5
> http://www.htgsupply.com/products/agromax-pure-uv-t5-bulb-4-foot


i currently have those, but they produced one that was all uvb, no uva at all, people really fried shit with them, plus they figured out that uva is also beneficial


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## Bbcchance (Jan 15, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i currently have those, but they produced one that was all uvb, no uva at all, people really fried shit with, plus they figured out that uva is also beneficial


For uvb I just use spiral style reptile bulbs

http://m.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/reptile/reptile-habitat-hoods-and-lighting/exo-terra-reptile-uvb150-bulb#i use one of these in an overhead fixture in my garage, I'm gonna move it into my flower room when it's time


It's only 26 watt so I leave it on for the full 12 hrs, nothing bad yet


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 15, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> For uvb I just use spiral style reptile bulbs
> 
> http://m.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/reptile/reptile-habitat-hoods-and-lighting/exo-terra-reptile-uvb150-bulb#i use one of these in an overhead fixture in my garage, I'm gonna move it into my flower room when it's time
> 
> ...


The UV emitted from that bulb is only effective 18 inch's _from_ the bulb!


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## CannaBruh (Jan 15, 2017)

There's an Agromax F24T5HO pure UV 75% UV-B : 25% UV-A saw it on the light that @Growmau5 is giving away. That looks similar or even the same one @Bbcchance links up but 24"


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## Bbcchance (Jan 15, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> The UV emitted from that bulb is only effective 18 inch's _from_ the bulb!


I keep it on a dangler, thinking about maybe mounting new ones, verticles in the end corners of the new space now that I'm in here foaming the walls. Thoughts? like where the red is, or centered where the hps would be? (Separate timers of course)


----------



## mr. childs (Jan 15, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> For uvb I just use spiral style reptile bulbs
> 
> http://m.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/reptile/reptile-habitat-hoods-and-lighting/exo-terra-reptile-uvb150-bulb#i use one of these in an overhead fixture in my garage, I'm gonna move it into my flower room when it's time
> 
> ...


i used the 150's & kept them inches away, worked well, but compared to the pure uv's, you might want to switch due to them being almost equal in cost with more power.


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 15, 2017)

I know several that hang the damn things all over a plant. I mean I get it for a small grow or small plants...Average 6' plants so they're not the best idea for me.....



Bbcchance said:


> I keep it on a dangler, thinking about maybe mounting new ones, verticles in the end corners of the new space now that I'm in here foaming the walls. Thoughts?View attachment 3876797 View attachment 3876801like where the red is, or centered where the hps would be? (Separate timers of course)


I'd bet a single Agro 2'er would be all you would need in there! Might as well go with top-o-the line stuff! 1 is easier to deal with too.
I'd say a 400 MV but their getting expensive and harder to find. They are being replaced with "MultiVapor" bulbs......FAH!


----------



## mr. childs (Jan 15, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> I know several that hang the damn things all over a plant. I mean I get it for a small grow or small plants...Average 6' plants so they're not the best idea for me.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 great point @Dr. Who ,would you really prefer the mv? i kinda wouldnt want to cool it & the space it would take up with a hood if i was not using it vertically ? but it is a great addition though


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 15, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> For uvb I just use spiral style reptile bulbs
> 
> http://m.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/reptile/reptile-habitat-hoods-and-lighting/exo-terra-reptile-uvb150-bulb#i use one of these in an overhead fixture in my garage, I'm gonna move it into my flower room when it's time
> 
> ...


When running HPS only in my 5X5, I also run five lizard lights -- one in each corner plus one dangling. They are on the entire time HID lights are on. Never had a problem as long as plants don't get too close. (12" minimum). 
I recently reconfigured my lighting due to cold temps. Now I run 400w MH - 600w HPS - 400w MH. Since they are "bare bulb", I've switched off the lizard lights for now. I'll probably leave them off unless I switch back to HPS only. 
Too much UV is a bad thing. Based on personal experience, I am convinced that sunburned leaves are much more vulnerable to PM infection.


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## THE KONASSURE (Jan 19, 2017)

anyone else been eyeing up a short arc 7kw xenon lamp just for like 30mins 2 hours a day tops ?


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## ttystikk (Jan 19, 2017)

THE KONASSURE said:


> anyone else been eyeing up a short arc 7kw xenon lamp just for like 30mins 2 hours a day tops ?


Nope. You'd be that guy.


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## THE KONASSURE (Jan 19, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Nope. You'd be that guy.



soon as I get some room maybe just in the winter.....

I think they do a 10kw too 6000k

1.High pressure short arc xenon lamp is also called the ultrahigh pressure short arc xenon lamp (work pressure in the 10 atmosphere above).



2.short arc xenon lamp (arc length in several millimeters), spherical xenon lamp (shell is spherical), referred to as the xenon lamp.



3.The lamp is a kind of high brightness of point light source, color temperature for 6000 k or so, light color close to the sun, is the gas discharge lamp in color rendering one of the best light source,.



4.suitable for film screening, searchlighting , train driving and simulated sunlight, etc.

I was thinking I might be jammy and hard start it and pop it down to 3kw see if I can get 1200 hours+ out of it but I`m not sure if its run time or starting up that kills a xenon ?




Ok now even a 200w one looks fun to play with 



Please notice to kiss: This product imports the brand-new pointolite bulb original packagingly for Japan, all bulbs are brand-new, L8251 bulb, are suitable for: Loose L8868 model of bank.

1. Bank loose HAMAMATSU : L8251, L6722, L6721, L8252

A, L8251: 200w mercury xenon lamp, 220nm 2000nm, the life-span, for 3000 hours (guarantee for 2000 hours during use)

Suitable for the lc5/lc6 series pointolite apparatus of loose ultraviolet curing system of bank.

B, L8252: 200w mercury xenon lamp, 185nm 2000nm, the life-span, for 3000 hours (guarantee for 2000 hours during use) ,

Suitable for the lc5/lc6 series pointolite apparatus of the ultraviolet curing system.

C, L6721: 200w mercury xenon lamp, 220nm 2000nm, the life-span, for 3000 hours (guarantee for 2000 hours during use) ,

Suitable for the L8878 series pointolite apparatus of the ultraviolet curing system.

D, L6722: 200w mercury xenon lamp, 185nm 2000nm, the life-span, for 3000 hours (guarantee for 2000 hours during use) ,

Suitable for the L8878 series pointolite apparatus of the ultraviolet curing system.

2. Panasonic NAIS: ANUPS252,ANUPS204

A, ANUPS204 power rating 200 (W) ,Life-span 3000 (h) (guarantee for 2000 hours during use) ,Power: 250W

Original energy: 5000mW/cm2 applicable model: ANUPS5204

B, ANUPS252 power rating 250 (W) ,Life-span 3000 (h) (guarantee for 2000 hours during use) ,Power: 250W

Original energy: 5000mW/cm2 applicable model: ANUPS5252

3. Outstanding USHIO: USH-255BY, UXM-Q256BY, USH-200DP

A. USH-255BY: 250W mercury xenon lamp, are used in semiconductor industrial spot light Ultra Violet Curing instrument and apparatus OEBR, Japan produces originally, light intensity 1000, maximum energy degradation 30%.

B. UXM-Q256BY power rating 250 (W) Original energy is 4000mW/cm2, the life-span 3000 (h) (guarantee for 2000 hours during use) Used in semiconductor industrial spot light Ultra Violet Curing instrument and apparatus, suitable for USHIO ultraviolet pointolite illuminating machine SP-7, on SP-9 apparatus.

C. USH-200DP power rating 200 (W) Life-span 1000 (h) Applicable model: SP-11


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 20, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i wonder how detrimental the agro uv will be to the recycled plastic on those airpots, plus its pretty close, be careful please...


I've got an Apollo tent and run copious amounts of UV. Yesterday I was configuring a few components and snapped a couple of cords that are used to seal the openings. I thought it was a fluke, so I pulled on the piece that had just come off and it broke easily. Looks like the core has dissolved. The part that is *not* exposed is still plenty strong. Weird. 
Moral of the story: Keep your cords tucked away, protected from UV.


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## Bbcchance (Jan 20, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> I've got an Apollo tent and run copious amounts of UV. Yesterday I was configuring a few components and snapped a couple of cords that are used to seal the openings. I thought it was a fluke, so I pulled on the piece that had just come off and it broke easily. Looks like the core has dissolved. The part that is *not* exposed is still plenty strong. Weird.
> Moral of the story: Keep your cords tucked away, protected from UV.
> View attachment 3880518


How long have you ran those lights in that tent?


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 20, 2017)

Bbcchance said:


> How long have you ran those lights in that tent?


I've only had this tent a couple of years and have been running lizard lights most of that time.


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## Bbcchance (Jan 20, 2017)

Wow, killed the lifetime on those things! I know uv breaks down rubber unless it's treated to handle it(EPDM rubber) but I hadn't thought about nylon and other man made mtls in tents


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## mr. childs (Jan 20, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> I've got an Apollo tent and run copious amounts of UV. Yesterday I was configuring a few components and snapped a couple of cords that are used to seal the openings. I thought it was a fluke, so I pulled on the piece that had just come off and it broke easily. Looks like the core has dissolved. The part that is *not* exposed is still plenty strong. Weird.
> Moral of the story: Keep your cords tucked away, protected from UV.
> View attachment 3880518


great advice.


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## PistilPeteX3 (Jan 21, 2017)

Anyone use reptisun 13w or similar. Thinking about supplementing them in my 2x4 tent of LED's since my LED's don't have uv.


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## Dr. Who (Jan 21, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> I've got an Apollo tent and run copious amounts of UV. Yesterday I was configuring a few components and snapped a couple of cords that are used to seal the openings. I thought it was a fluke, so I pulled on the piece that had just come off and it broke easily. Looks like the core has dissolved. The part that is *not* exposed is still plenty strong. Weird.
> Moral of the story: Keep your cords tucked away, protected from UV.
> View attachment 3880518


Nylon is plastic..
Didn't see this I posted on pg 39 eh?

_"Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that any plastics like polycarbonates are worn out and yellowed up badly by UV, and the MV/Agro power's will do it quickly! Store any plastic away from the bloom area when using UV!"_


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## mr. childs (Jan 21, 2017)

PistilPeteX3 said:


> Anyone use reptisun 13w or similar. Thinking about supplementing them in my 2x4 tent of LED's since my LED's don't have uv.


the majority of us have used them well in past practices, but now using the t-5's, be it the 2ft or 4ft pure uv agromax bulb, they serve the role & intended purpose the cfl uvb's once filled


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## vintagedvd (Mar 24, 2017)

Hello guys and girls! Please skip this if you don't enjoy long posts.

At the same time I changed my lighting to LEDs, I also changed my seed provider, and I begun to notice a decrease in potency of the flowers. The lights I have now are 4X50W CXB3070 30G.

Before I throw away my seeds in the garbage I would like to supplement with a UV light so I can rule out the lights, although if the LEDs were low quality they wouldn't be so popular, or at least I would of heard of this problem.

I wonder tho, does UV light leaves any radiation residue on the plant? Anyone know for sure it's safe to consume afterwards?
Also, I grow in organic soil. Will this UV light kill my bennies(beneficial bacteria)? Maybe turn it on just in flower, when the leaves are enough to protect the soil?
Hell, how safe is it for me? I grow in a small storage room in my house, but the door is always open in the "plant day" hours. Should I avoid looking towards the light coming from the storage room, or is it safe until the point I look directly into the light?

Which brings me to the next question. Which in the world is the technique to supplement UV light?

I found a light that I like. I didn't bought it yet, but it seems that it is the most powerful UV CFL in the 13W range, so low consumption, which I like, relatively cheap to implement and maintain, and very accessible. I already have an old lamp that I can fit in the grow near the plant, without disturbing the COBs.

Exo Terra Reptile Uvb 200 13W which gives at the closest point to the plant:

40cm(16") 120µw/cm2-UVA and 20µw/cm2-UVB

and at the farthest:

60cm(24") 40µw/cm2-UVA and 7µw/cm2-UVB
I can also get these if someone says they're better:
Jbl Reptil Jungle UV 190 15W
and
Mega Sun UVB 10.0 13W
which are relatively the same in specs and price. I noticed every model has a similar UV output model that draws more W but the rest is converted to Kelvin light. So the 13W model is the optimum one. 2X13W bulbs are way better than one 26W one.

Good thing these lights are also used in "normal" activities, otherwise they would cost at least a couple of hundreds.

Is the light enough for my humble needs? Are the distances right? I'm thinking a cheap way to test UV intensity is with my prescription glasses because they have photo-chromatic lenses.The darker they get, the most UV intensity. I know how dark they can get at most in a very bright summer day at noon. Just a thought. I will play with the light I get eventually. I'll take pictures of the glasses every inch away distance from UV light to compare the levels of intensity at different distances.

Maybe I will get a Reptisun T5 10.0 HO or a AGROMAX PURE UV T5 in 22" if that's a the trully right UV light, but I would be very angry about it. I'll also have to find a good fixture/reflector for it.

I can rotate the pot myself daily because I only grow one plant and I mainline. The pot is not anchored and I can rotate it. Is it good to rotate daily, or maybe each side needs 2-3 days for the plant to react? I can do whatever.

How much time in a plant day should I set the timer of the UV light? All 12 hours, fewer and set in the middle of the 12 hours? Does anyone actually did a side by side with a clone and same base light to confirm an actual weight and potency change?

I'll tell you, the last grow pushed me to search for potency enhancer. I've grown an Critical Kush from Dinafem. It looked good, finished good, cured it, 143 grams(5 ounces) which seems fair and it's more than enough for me, but the potency made it almost garbage. It took vaping 0,5 grams of the most potent stuff, the very top of the tops, to make me high in a reasonable intensity, not all the way up, but high. And I'm using a Plenty vaporizer, which is very efficient. At some point I wanted to bake with 15 grams colas, even tho I don't like edibles.
Does UV changes the chemical structure of trichomes after harvest?
Thank you if you read this far. 

Later edit: I just read and I remembered UV kills plastic and other things too. I'll definetly need a fixture to protect my carbon filter and main lights. It will be hard to kill my fan, but it's cheap to replace when it does.

But what about the power lines? I'll have to raise them all in the grow, but I still think they'll get "second hand" long term exposure. The last thing I want is a fire in my house. What do you folks think?


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## mr. childs (Mar 24, 2017)

just be careful using uv, and when you get a chance take some some down time and read through the posts in this specific forum. the growers here have provided you with an immense amount of information to answer 95% of the questions you asked. uv works, just be careful with it & dont overindulge. peace


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## PhuckDaPoeLease (Mar 24, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> the majority of us have used them well in past practices, but now using the t-5's, be it the 2ft or 4ft pure uv agromax bulb, they serve the role & intended purpose the cfl uvb's once filled


Do you use the pure uv bulbs?


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## mr. childs (Mar 24, 2017)

yes, theyll burn you if you place them too close... but they bring out the resin glands in a major way along with some amber glands...


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## PhuckDaPoeLease (Mar 24, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> yes, theyll burn you if you place them too close... but they bring out the resin glands in a major way along with some amber glands...


What schedule do you have your pure uv bulbs on?


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## ttystikk (Mar 24, 2017)

Running UV lights will damage your eyes. Keep the door closed and shut them off when you work in the space.


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## mr. childs (Mar 24, 2017)

PhuckDaPoeLease said:


> What schedule do you have your pure uv bulbs on?


i have the 2ft agro at the top of the tent about 2ft away from the tops of the girls on one side. i initially thought of running one on each side, and still will in the 4x4 tent. i run them from veg(24/0) throughout flower(12/12, then 13/11) depending on genetics & stretch. did you fare well with them?


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## PhuckDaPoeLease (Mar 24, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i have the 2ft agro at the top of the tent about 2ft away from the tops of the girls on one side. i initially thought of running one on each side, and still will in the 4x4 tent. i run them from veg(24/0) throughout flower(12/12, then 13/11) depending on genetics & stretch. did you far well with them?


How long have you been running them like that? I have not had success finding a good schedule. I have ran them like you and they cooked my plants in a matter of a few days. The thread is in my sig. Are you sure you have the Pure uv bulbs and not the agro uv-a bulbs?


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## whitebb2727 (Mar 24, 2017)

PhuckDaPoeLease said:


> How long have you been running them like that? I have not had success finding a good schedule. I have ran them like you and they cooked my plants in a matter of a few days. The thread is in my sig. Are you sure you have the Pure uv bulbs and not the agro uv-a bulbs?


The pure uv bulb needs just a few minutes each hour.

Look at the agromax 10'000k+I've bulb it can be run full time.


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## mr. childs (Mar 24, 2017)

PhuckDaPoeLease said:


> How long have you been running them like that? I have not had success finding a good schedule. I have ran them like you and they cooked my plants in a matter of a few days. The thread is in my sig. Are you sure you have the Pure uv bulbs and not the agro uv-a bulbs?


i only run the 2ft bulb, at the top of tent. i have experienced burns, but i have also learned which girls can truly tolerate it more than others.


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## mr. childs (Mar 24, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> The pure uv bulb needs just a few minutes each hour.
> 
> Look at the agromax 10'000k+I've bulb it can be run full time.


i have an acquaintance that runs the 4ft bulbs. they are truly powerful.


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## mauricem00 (Mar 24, 2017)

vintagedvd said:


> Hello guys and girls! Please skip this if you don't enjoy long posts.
> 
> At the same time I changed my lighting to LEDs, I also changed my seed provider, and I begun to notice a decrease in potency of the flowers. The lights I have now are 4X50W CXB3070 30G.
> 
> ...


 UV will improve taste and potency. most people using LEDs have upgraded from HPS which does not produce a significant amount of UV so their would be no change in quality changing from HPS to LED due to lack of UV. those who grow with CMH, FLORESCENT or MH bulbs would see a reduction in UV when switching to LED. but a growing number of growers are experimenting with UV and seeing an improvement in potency and taste.UV has no effect on chemical structure. just quantity


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## mr. childs (Mar 25, 2017)

mauricem00 said:


> UV will improve taste and potency. most people using LEDs have upgraded from HPS which does not produce a significant amount of UV so their would be no change in quality changing from HPS to LED due to lack of UV. those who grow with CMH, FLORESCENT or MH bulbs would see a reduction in UV when switching to LED. but a growing number of growers are experimenting with UV and seeing an improvement in potency and taste.UV has no effect on chemical structure. just quantity


if added too soon, smaller more resinous more potent & healing buds...


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 25, 2017)

vintagedvd said:


> Hello guys and girls! Please skip this if you don't enjoy long posts.
> 
> 
> I wonder tho, does UV light leaves any radiation residue on the plant? Anyone know for sure it's safe to consume afterwards?



its only unsafe if it glows green with the lights out.......its uv, not gamma radiation, bruce banner, it leaves no "residue"


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## vintagedvd (Mar 25, 2017)

Thanks guys.

I think Pure UV is too powerful for one girl in a 3' X 3'. My height is also limited to 160cm(5.25 feet), so it would be easy for me to get a less powerful one because I want to use the same timer, to run them 12/12, and not to be that dangerous to have in the house.

I decided to get a double bulb fixture, maybe LightWave 2 feet long, 2 tube
and run a pure PAR bulb and a Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 T5-Ho Uvb, or a Arcadia T5 D3+
both in 24W, I'll get what I can find in Europe. but I noticed the UVB bulb has 22" in length, but the Agromax PurePar is listed as 2 feet in length.
Can someone tell me if I can mount them both securely in this fixture?:


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## mr. childs (Mar 25, 2017)

vintagedvd said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I think Pure UV is too powerful for one girl in a 3' X 3'. My height is also limited to 160cm(5.25 feet), so it would be easy for me to get a less powerful one because I want to use the same timer, to run them 12/12, and not to be that dangerous to have in the house.
> 
> ...


the pure uv fits in the standard single t5 housing i picked from htg. the entire housing must be 22", i never measured though, just switched bulbs, and rock & rolled from there. in the 5ft tent, zip tied to the top of the frame, no reflector.


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## vintagedvd (Mar 25, 2017)

Well, it seems htgsupplys doesn't sell outside US. Too bad, I really liked the GrowBright fixture.
In Europe I found fixtures that are unnecessarily expensive.
I found on Alibaba a good quality 2ft aluminum fixture, 2X24W, a Fulham 48W solid state ballast.
They're relatively cheap, but it will take a month for them to arrive if I don't find something in Europe.

I didn't find the Pure Par bulbs anywhere. I'm sure they are, just under a different spectrum name.
Can anyone recommend a very good substitute? Or maybe we can find the genuine bulbs somewhere else?


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## whitebb2727 (Mar 25, 2017)

My current grow with agromax bulbs and the 10kuva bulb.
The smaller ones are three strains from @RM3.


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## mr. childs (Mar 26, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> My current grow with agromax bulbs and the 10kuva bulb.
> The smaller ones are three strains from @RM3.
> View attachment 3913386 View attachment 3913387 View attachment 3913388 View attachment 3913389 View attachment 3913390


gorgeous green flowers...


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## mr. childs (Mar 26, 2017)

vintagedvd said:


> Well, it seems htgsupplys doesn't sell outside US. Too bad, I really liked the GrowBright fixture.
> In Europe I found fixtures that are unnecessarily expensive.
> I found on Alibaba a good quality 2ft aluminum fixture, 2X24W, a Fulham 48W solid state ballast.
> They're relatively cheap, but it will take a month for them to arrive if I don't find something in Europe.
> ...


hortilux has some t-5 power veg bulbs that do pretty well. of course the arcadia & ati aquarium bulbs work also, actinic, @RM3 & his buddy illumination(r.i.p) did more research on them than i though. i only bought a cheap 14k 400 mh from amazon, a violet colored bulb.


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## whitebb2727 (Mar 26, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> gorgeous green flowers...


Thank you.


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## Chunky Stool (Mar 28, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> My current grow with agromax bulbs and the 10kuva bulb.
> The smaller ones are three strains from @RM3.
> View attachment 3913386 View attachment 3913387 View attachment 3913388 View attachment 3913389 View attachment 3913390


Looks like you prefer the single cola plants. They sure are easier to trim! 
How do you like the grow bags? Do you have any problems with root spiraling?


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## whitebb2727 (Mar 28, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Looks like you prefer the single cola plants. They sure are easier to trim!
> How do you like the grow bags? Do you have any problems with root spiraling?


I don't prefer single cola. There are two plants I topped in there. One with four to six tops the the other with four. 

I went perpetual. Kind of a sog. Its just easier to handle the plants single cola. A couple of the taller ones are clones.

This is my first run using the grow bags. I ordered a 25 pack and they sent me 100 of them.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 28, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> My current grow with agromax bulbs and the 10kuva bulb.
> The smaller ones are three strains from @RM3.
> View attachment 3913386 View attachment 3913387 View attachment 3913388 View attachment 3913389 View attachment 3913390


are you growing "autos" my friend


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## whitebb2727 (Mar 28, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> are you growing "autos" my friend


Growing photo plants. I listed the strains. There are 6 little ones that are 3 strains by rm3. The taller 2 are c99 and special haze. Couple other strains in there. 

The two smallest are autos for the current comparative grow. Growing them 12/12 from the start.


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## Psyphish (Mar 28, 2017)

Would this T5 bulb do any good? http://arcadia-reptile.com/fluorescent-lamps/t5-d3plus-desert/

Only one I seem to find locally.


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## RM3 (Mar 28, 2017)

Psyphish said:


> Would this T5 bulb do any good? http://arcadia-reptile.com/fluorescent-lamps/t5-d3plus-desert/
> 
> Only one I seem to find locally.


the arcadia's work better than most


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## l0wbob2016 (Mar 28, 2017)

damn my brain is fucked because i read the complete thread from the start till end in one piece, now i need a break but this thread is watched and i got to show some stuff i found from searching i did about UV-radiation


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## mr. childs (Mar 28, 2017)

Psyphish said:


> Would this T5 bulb do any good? http://arcadia-reptile.com/fluorescent-lamps/t5-d3plus-desert/
> 
> Only one I seem to find locally.


this bulb has 12% uvb + 30% uva
the agro pure uv has 75% uvb + 25% uva


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## l0wbob2016 (Mar 28, 2017)

ok so finally i found some time to write here 

in my own searching about UV-radiation ( while searching i found this thread here ) and its impacts on plant growth i tried to solve it from a different end. i was thinking about the fact that if UV-radiation has any influence then it has to be absorbed.

i alrdy knew that for example chlorophyll a and b got their absorbtion peaks in red and blue and thats the reason why lights using red and blue spectrums end up with a purple.





the proof that this works best did Theodor Wilhelm Engelmann when he measured the effects of different colors of light on photosynthetic activity. the results where that the most photosynthetic activity was seen at the colors of light that match the peak absorbtion.

so i looked up some other absorbtion spectrums:

carotene



peridinin



so what you can see there is always an amount of UV-radiation that is absorbed. sadly these grafics i found dont got further down the wavelength.

i found one grafic that goes further down for carotene:


as you can see there is even an absorbtion peak at about 285nm.

so i was sure that if you can control the amount of UV-radiation to a level where it helps more than it destroys then you would have a wavelength that also pushes some photosynthetic activity out of a plant. i would assume there is a factor between the absorbtion percentage and the radiation power that would be best at certain wavelength.

maybe this would not be such a big difference as if u would grow a plant only with blue light and then found out "hey there is red that helps my plant also, lets hang some red lights", but there has to be a positive impact in whatever way. photosynthetic activity cant be enough for the cannabis growers right?

so i tried to find more information, i found that 2 researches and after that i found a link to RIU haha. everything i read here just told me i was right in a way 

so now i am here and shared my findings i hope they help. if i am wrong please tell me cause i love to learn things from the pros.


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## Chunky Stool (Mar 28, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> I don't prefer single cola. There are two plants I topped in there. One with four to six tops the the other with four.
> 
> I went perpetual. Kind of a sog. Its just easier to handle the plants single cola. A couple of the taller ones are clones.
> 
> This is my first run using the grow bags. I ordered a 25 pack and they sent me 100 of them.


Yeah


whitebb2727 said:


> Growing photo plants. I listed the strains. There are 6 little ones that are 3 strains by rm3. The taller 2 are c99 and special haze. Couple other strains in there.
> 
> The two smallest are autos for the current comparative grow. Growing them 12/12 from the start.


Got any tips for C99? I got a couple of feminized beans from a buddy and I'm going to pop them this week.


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## whitebb2727 (Mar 28, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Yeah
> 
> Got any tips for C99? I got a couple of feminized beans from a buddy and I'm going to pop them this week.


C99 is a easy to grow strain. I've run them from female seeds an blimburn. They must have come from the same lineage or cuts. They are similar. I lost a good pheno.

I should've cut a clone. Most seem to smell of fruit and skunk. More of a pineapple smell. The one I lost didn't have the skunk. Pure fruit. The one I got going now smells like fruit loops.

It can handle a little heavier feeding than the more touchy sativa. Let it finish. Even a few day can make a difference.

Don't use bloom boosters on it.

 
This one is looking good. Putting on frost.


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## vintagedvd (Mar 29, 2017)

I wanted better options, but good T5 UV bulbs made outside Europe are almost impossible to buy or are ridiculous expensive. Good fixtures are more available, but not by much. If someone would of told me 3 months ago that I will buy new lights, and T5's on top of that, I would of said he's crazy. I'm not sorry about my purchase, I just hope I didn't throw $100 out the window.

So, from the financial and psychiatric point of view, I could only buy the GT Lightwave T5 2X24W, so I bought it. It comes with 2 stock bulbs that put out almost no UV, so I also bought 2 bulbs of JBL Reptil Sun ; 7500k ; lm 650 ; CRI 90 ; 24W ; UV-A 63% ; UV-B (12%)

I made pictures with the same camera, in the same light conditions, and I've used prescription glasses to measure different levels of UV intensity.

First picture is the control one, lenses without exposure to UV light.


Next picture was made keeping the glasses 10cm(4") below the main light, 4X 50W COB 3070 30G.

I knew it does not produce noticeable UV light, but I was disappointed to see it was true.

Next I tried a regular T8 that I had in the house, with glasses kept at 5cm(2") for 10 minutes.

That's what I call barely any UV. A compact CFL bulb at the same distance had the same outcome. I wonder where's the UV in all the indoor growing because I can't find a light that outputs a decent amount of UV. Maybe someone can test a HID, as I don't have one anymore.

Next I wanted to test the Lightwave T5 fixture, so I placed it up side down on a table, and the glasses hanged above it, shined by the fixture. I wanted to hang them at 50cm(20"), but as I hanged them, the lower lens (singular) was at 45cm(18"), and the upper lens was at 55cm(22"). This data is important in the next test.

As you can see, although this test is made a lot farther than the regular T8, a soft tint is visible. The left lens is thicker (long story) so it's not as tinted as the right one, plus it was "shadowed" (I think) by the lens situated lower, between the light and the left lens. What I'm trying to say is that if you take just one of the lenses as reference(preferable the one on the right), you can make use of this experiment. Hope it makes sense. If not, it will in a second.

I changed the stock bulbs with the JBL ones.

Finally, the effects of the UV light were clearly visible, and the difference in the height and chemical composition of the lenses was noticeable in this test. So noticeable that I decided to repeat the test with both lenses at the same height.

Here the difference of the lenses is more visible. I wanted to see the effects on both lenses so I repeated the experiment with both lenses at the same height of 55cm(22"). Unfortunately I was anxious and didn't put the lenses facing down. There is a slight angle, maybe 10°, but they're definitely not facing perfectly towards the light. Still, the lens showed a good amount of UV at twice the distance from the plants that I plan to keep the light.

For a good comparison I took a picture of the glasses under the plain sun (wearing them) for 10 minutes.

This picture was made on the 29.03.2017 at the 46paralel, north hemisphere, between 10:30-10:40 AM

Conclusions:

Considering this test gave results in images instead of numbers, I still consider it a successful experiment. My plan is to have a moderate UV light, that I can keep on the same timer, at the same schedule and at the same height as the main light. These lights seem to fit the bill as I will keep them at around 30cm. I will lower/raise them if I see it needs adjustments and I will post any changes or info that might seem important to this thread. Because of the heat I grow only 2 times a year and never in the summer, even with LEDs, so it might take a wile until I post some actual results, but I promise that I will.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 29, 2017)

vintagedvd said:


> I wanted better options, but good T5 UV bulbs made outside Europe are almost impossible to buy or are ridiculous expensive. Good fixtures are more available, but not by much. If someone would of told me 3 months ago that I will buy new lights, and T5's on top of that, I would of said he's crazy. I'm not sorry about my purchase, I just hope I didn't throw $100 out the window.
> 
> So, from the financial and psychiatric point of view, I could only buy the GT Lightwave T5 2X24W, so I bought it. It comes with 2 stock bulbs that put out almost no UV, so I also bought 2 bulbs of JBL Reptil Sun ; 7500k ; lm 650 ; CRI 90 ; 24W ; UV-A 63% ; UV-B (12%)
> 
> ...


cool test


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## MichiganMedGrower (Mar 29, 2017)

Very interesting. 

Not that it is relevant to flourescents. But you did ask about hid and one I used has some decent uv. 

The 400 w Hortilux blue metal halide bulb tints my glasses medium dark just working inder it even through the tempered glass of my sealed reflector. 

I use a 600w version now but it does not tint the glasses noticeably. I guess it is because the 600 is really a conversion hps bulb as there are no 600 w true mh ballasts.


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## mr. childs (Mar 29, 2017)

i'd like to see what percentage of uvb the ceramic metal hps that hortilux is coming out with emits...


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## mr. childs (Mar 29, 2017)

vintagedvd said:


> I wanted better options, but good T5 UV bulbs made outside Europe are almost impossible to buy or are ridiculous expensive. Good fixtures are more available, but not by much. If someone would of told me 3 months ago that I will buy new lights, and T5's on top of that, I would of said he's crazy. I'm not sorry about my purchase, I just hope I didn't throw $100 out the window.
> 
> So, from the financial and psychiatric point of view, I could only buy the GT Lightwave T5 2X24W, so I bought it. It comes with 2 stock bulbs that put out almost no UV, so I also bought 2 bulbs of JBL Reptil Sun ; 7500k ; lm 650 ; CRI 90 ; 24W ; UV-A 63% ; UV-B (12%)
> 
> ...


i'll be damned, thank you for this test. i have no idea why none of us never thought of doing this. thank you for the inspiration.


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## RM3 (Mar 29, 2017)

find a Hortilux T5 display at your local grow store and get one of these cards


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## RM3 (Mar 29, 2017)

or buy one of these 

https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=296&gclid=CPr42d76-9ICFQ-1wAod9AQADA


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## vintagedvd (Mar 29, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i'll be damned, thank you for this test. i have no idea why none of us never thought of doing this. thank you for the inspiration.


This is a small thing. Someone was bound to think of this eventually.
I was active on my country forum. I invented a few things in my early days to make our lives better(poor man inventions). I was published 3 times in our magazine. Many of them are obsolete now, or you can find factory products now that do the job as good or better, and they're cheaper to buy. I also made a lot of test and experiments, on different things, that made a few people happier, or at least smarter. But the forum was shut down a wile ago, so I found refuge in international waters.



MichiganMedGrower said:


> dark


Cool quote, no?
I forgot to tell, but you reminded me. A perfect spectrum should be totally absorbed by the leaves, so they should look very black under it. It's just a theory, just like UV. What do you guys think?


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## igothydrotoneverywhere (Mar 29, 2017)

They had new Hortilux T5 bulbs with UVA+B at the last grow show I was at in Jan.

Called "PowerVeg T5 FS+UV"

If UV light was so bad and non helpful, why would the leader in Indoor lighting spend millions on developing a new bulb?

I think we have to look at the origins of the strains we are growing first. The UV at the equator is at its highest and its relative and diminishing quantity can be matched with indigenous strains as you move your finger up the map. 

I think in the future grow lights will be tailored to the exact light spectrum of the strain you are growing. Sativas from the equator definitely need UV-B, northern indicas not so much.


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## whitebb2727 (Apr 4, 2017)

vintagedvd said:


> I wanted better options, but good T5 UV bulbs made outside Europe are almost impossible to buy or are ridiculous expensive. Good fixtures are more available, but not by much. If someone would of told me 3 months ago that I will buy new lights, and T5's on top of that, I would of said he's crazy. I'm not sorry about my purchase, I just hope I didn't throw $100 out the window.
> 
> So, from the financial and psychiatric point of view, I could only buy the GT Lightwave T5 2X24W, so I bought it. It comes with 2 stock bulbs that put out almost no UV, so I also bought 2 bulbs of JBL Reptil Sun ; 7500k ; lm 650 ; CRI 90 ; 24W ; UV-A 63% ; UV-B (12%)
> 
> ...


Not really a good test. 

I get the premise behind it but it is not accurate in anyway.


igothydrotoneverywhere said:


> They had new Hortilux T5 bulbs with UVA+B at the last grow show I was at in Jan.
> 
> Called "PowerVeg T5 FS+UV"
> 
> ...


Agromax has a cheaper uv a and b bulb. They also have a 10,000k+uva bulb. 

The pure uv bulb with a and b is less than 20 bucks and the uva bulb is less than 10 bucks.

I'm sure the hortilux are good but 30 bucks a pop is a bit pricey.


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## vintagedvd (Apr 21, 2017)

$20 Arduino UV Meter <-- link


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## Rocket Soul (Jun 2, 2019)

Subbed and reading thru till the end


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## Tim Fox (Jun 10, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> Subbed and reading thru till the end


whats up Rocket


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## Rocket Soul (Jun 10, 2019)

All good around here, growwise were in between locations, flowering out our last crop now but should have something up in a few months. Good for my growbuddy to get some holidays and to get out of a place with too much history. Hows things your end?


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## Tim Fox (Jun 11, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> All good around here, growwise were in between locations, flowering out our last crop now but should have something up in a few months. Good for my growbuddy to get some holidays and to get out of a place with too much history. Hows things your end?


I have ran so many grows through my grow box i have jars and jars of weed and just smoke myself silly most days hahaha, and with cannabis being legal in Oregon I buy my cloned from the store it's pretty nice


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## fessie99 (Apr 14, 2020)

Is this uv burn have a thread in newbie section and will Bruce banner be enough sativa for grandpa


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