# The Flower Power Challenge!



## CALIGROWN (Feb 3, 2008)

So the question is: does flowering time start when you begin the new light cycle( 12/12 )

Or does it begin when flowers are present?


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## CALIGROWN (Feb 3, 2008)

well I thought you guys would show up????


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

mine show in veg ?????????

my mothers have been flowering for along time. i do understand what you getting at but a plant will finish when it wants to....


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## BSIv2.0 (Feb 3, 2008)

*From what Ive experienced...Flowering time begins when the plant begins producing buds in 12/12.*

*Ive had plants that were mature enough to flower (showing pre-flowers) that didnt start producing buds until a week or so after going into 12/12. I start my counting then....When buds start forming.*

*Not when they go into 12/12.*


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## BSIv2.0 (Feb 3, 2008)

*Maybe a distinction needs to be made between flowering (showing sex)*

*And budding (producing buds).*

*There is a difference.*


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## 000420 (Feb 3, 2008)

flowering begins with 12/12 or long nights and short days, regardless of preflowers, when you change the photo period the plant senses this and starts the flowering process..though it may take days to weeks to notice flowers( you should have seen them in veg if grown properly) developing the plant has been in the flowering phase and making changes chemically and physically since the photo period was changed to 12/12..plants contain phytochrome which they use to detect light, ....as soon as the photo period has changed to short days and long nights the pant senses this and begins the flowering process..

Phytochrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many flowering plants use it to regulate the time of flowering based on the length of day and night (photoperiodism) and to set circadian rhythms. It also regulates other responses including the germination of seeds, elongation of seedlings, the size, shape and number of leaves, the synthesis of chlorophyll, and the straightening of the epicotyl or hypocotyldicot seedlings.


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

they flower (bud) before that outside. just trying to help this debate...no harm...


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## 000420 (Feb 3, 2008)

BIGMIKE13 said:


> they flower (bud) before that outside. just trying to help this debate...no harm...


pre-flowers..


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

there is only one day that there is 12/12 light.....so you tell me they all start on that day. plants will flower with 14/10 lights. to many variables.


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## kindprincess (Feb 3, 2008)

here is a plant that has been flowering for 7 days. she was put in the flower room seven days ago. this is a plant from clone, momma is well over a year old, and she started out with preflowers at every node.

i started the day count the first day she was in 12/12.









next, i'll show you some others. gimme a minute to upload them in the gallery.


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

i knew you would bail me out.........


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## 000420 (Feb 3, 2008)

BIGMIKE13 said:


> there is only one day that there is 12/12 light.....so you tell me they all start on that day. plants will flower with 14/10 lights. to many variables.



i just say 12/12 for the majority of stains...you can induce flowering with multiple photo periods..my point is just that photo period starts the cycle....it doesn't have to be 12/12...that's just what we do indoors for a happy medium that will trigger the flowering process in most stains....you can go 10/14 and most plants will flower even faster than under 12/12 only you will get a smaller yield........


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

the first day of 12/12 is the first day of flowering.


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

000420 said:


> i just say 12/12 for the majority of stains...you can induce flowering with multiple photo periods..my point is just that photo period starts the cycle....it doesn't have to be 12/12...that's just what we do indoors for a happy medium that will trigger the flowering process in most stains....you can go 10/14 and most plants will flower even faster than under 12/12 only you will get a smaller yield........


i know what your saying......i still love you in a nonfaggot way..

so does it start 12/12 or.....???


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## CALIGROWN (Feb 3, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> the first day of 12/12 is the first day of flowering.


you don't know what you just brought yourself into...lol

here hit this real quick...


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## kindprincess (Feb 3, 2008)

here are some, 24 days in 12/12.... do they look like they are flowering? they're on 12/12... hmmm.....


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

kindprincess said:


> here is a plant that has been flowering for 7 days. she was put in the flower room seven days ago. this is a plant from clone, momma is well over a year old, and she started out with preflowers at every node.
> 
> i started the day count the first day she was in 12/12.
> 
> ...



you changed your mind......



quote=kindprincess

"12/12 will force flower. plants will not always start to flower as soon as you go 12/12 though....

when you see flowers (hairs for female, balls for male) flower has started, and you can start your week count "


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

i can't believe seasoned growers don't know when to start the day count.



the day you switch to 12/12 is DAY 1. 


is this really a serious debate?


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## kindprincess (Feb 3, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> that wasn't my quote that is yours from another thread. i don't agree.


i do! 

ie, look at the young plants up there. they are three weeks in 12/12. they aren't flowering. no preflowers. nothing but leaves.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

kindprincess said:


> i do!
> 
> ie, look at the young plants up there. they are three weeks in 12/12. they aren't flowering. no preflowers. nothing but leaves.



they have to be mature to flower.




the first day of 12/12 is the first day of the flowering cycle. i'm done. i passed first grade. later.


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

me niether, mine show hairs and balls in veg.

not on the same plant.....


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## kindprincess (Feb 3, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> they have to be mature to flower.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


this is a contradiction. and my point exactly. they have to be mature to flower. if they aren't mature, they are vegging, no matter what the light cycle is.

and in the words of forest gump, "that's all i've got tuh say about that."


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## BSIv2.0 (Feb 3, 2008)

*Rename this forum....Advanced Debating...Thats all that ever gets accomplished here. Nothing is ever proven right or wrong.*


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

kindprincess said:


> this is a contradiction. and my point exactly. they have to be mature to flower. if they aren't mature, they are vegging, no matter what the light cycle is.
> 
> and in the words of forest gump, "that's all i've got tuh say about that."



why would you try to flower an immature plant?


let's go back to square 1.



plant seed

veg until preflowers appear, this is a sign of maturity.

switch to 12/12. start counting as day 1.

flower 8 weeks from THE FIRST DAY of 12/12.

harvest


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

all i know is what me and all the other CALIFORNIA growers do. we all count from the first day of 12/12. if i tried to say anything different i would confuse everyone.


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

i dont live in cali..... day 1 12/12 light showing preflowers


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

outside opinion?.........









the cali thing was a joke.


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

^^^soil or nutes ? i still like what the metanatural did for ya.


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## Hank (Feb 3, 2008)

fdd you say you can veg for 24/7 and the plant will eventually show it's sex? Interesting...............So could i begin veg now, let them go till April-May "indoors" and then move em outdoor for flowering? 

Hank.


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## spark1 (Feb 3, 2008)

umm It says SOIL in 2 places on his chart. That leads me to believe soil, although medium has no bearing in this debate.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

Hank said:


> fdd you say you can veg for 24/7 and the plant will eventually show it's sex? Interesting...............So could i begin veg now, let them go till April-May "indoors" and then move em outdoor for flowering?
> 
> Hank.




i never said that.


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## CALIGROWN (Feb 3, 2008)

i told you..............you just keep coming back....lollollol..this thread is funny


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

that's not my chart. i don't need a stupid chart to know. i just pulled that off the internet.

looks like this is coming down to a definition of terms. 

when you say they are "in" flower do you say this as soon as you put them "in" the room with 12/12 lighting? i do. "they have been *in flower *for 32 days. they have been *showing* flowers for 10 days."


get it?

in flower

showing flowers


lets see how confusing we can really make all this. i keep it simple. but what do i know?


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## CALIGROWN (Feb 3, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> that's not my chart. i don't need a stupid chart to know. i just pulled that off the internet.
> 
> looks like this is coming down to a definition of terms.
> 
> ...


lolololololololololololol
i cant stop laughing..............this is the thread of the week..


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> outside opinion?.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...





BIGMIKE13 said:


> ^^^soil or nutes ? i still like what the metanatural did for ya.


 
what was i thinking ?...........read the post from my side.........


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## CALIGROWN (Feb 3, 2008)

the humming bird is priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 3, 2008)

When I say a plant takes "8 weeks to flower".... I am referencing the VERY first day I put the plant into 12/12... That is when I consider a plant has started "flowering"

Is he plant really flowering that very DAY... well... fook I don't know....

All I really care about is that we can all agree what the term "flowering" means..

So that we can share information regarding the number of days it takes particular stains to MATURE TO HARVEST...

that's all i really care about.. I always assumed we were all on the same page regarding the definition of the term "flowering"...

I always thought it started the day "YOU" switches to 12/12.. but I am more than willing to change my definition.. whatever works best..

FYI-
ALMOST every strain I have grown takes exactly 14 days of 12/12 to show its FIRST female hair..

iloveyou


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 3, 2008)

Hank said:


> fdd you say you can veg for 24/7 and the plant will eventually show it's sex? Interesting...............So could i begin veg now, let them go till April-May "indoors" and then move em outdoor for flowering?
> 
> Hank.


NOT only will a plant show its sex.. eventually.... even under 24/7..

AND research shows that female plants will SELF pollinate (turn hermaphrodite) if left in flower stage (12/12) and never harvested or pollinated by a male...

iloveyou


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> When I say a plant takes "8 weeks to flower".... I am referencing the VERY first day I put the plant into 12/12... That is when I consider a plant has started "flowering"
> 
> Is he plant really flowering that very DAY... well... fook I don't know....
> 
> ...



my too. why try to change it all the sudden? like i asked from the beginning.....is this a real question?


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## BIGMIKE13 (Feb 3, 2008)

look at my last 2 post. now that shits funny.........

fdd please you will laugh..


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## 000420 (Feb 3, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> When I say a plant takes "8 weeks to flower".... I am referencing the VERY first day I put the plant into 12/12... That is when I consider a plant has started "flowering"
> 
> Is he plant really flowering that very DAY... well... fook I don't know....
> 
> ...


thank you...you would not believe how bashed I got earlier for having the same opinion.......

i was called a dumb ass, a retard, stupid, full of shit...all because I said the count starts at the beginning of 12/12..........


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2008)

BIGMIKE13 said:


> look at my last 2 post. now that shits funny.........
> 
> fdd please you will laugh..



i've been doing nothing but laughing.


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 3, 2008)

000420 said:


> thank you...you would not believe how bashed I got earlier for having the same opinion.......
> 
> i was called a dumb ass, a retard, stupid, full of shit...all because I said the count starts at the beginning of 12/12..........


don't worry about those clowns.. the forums are for clarifying and assisting...

there are no dumb questions.. but there are plenty of dumb answers..

no reason to ever get on the high horse.. unless your looking to get knocked down 

iloveyou


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## 000420 (Feb 3, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> don't worry about those clowns.. the forums are for clarifying and assisting...
> 
> there are no dumb questions.. but there are plenty of dumb answers..
> 
> ...


the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked..........

it's not about knowing all the answers...but how to ask the right questions....


you are the man GK

i love u


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## bba (Feb 4, 2008)

i agree that a plant has to be sexually mature to be "flowering" light cycle 12-12 or not.

i agree that most people do not flower seedlings, so i can see both sides of the arguement. 

clones are different as the mother is probably already sexually mature.

~BBA


Knows not what the weed can do for you, but what you can do for your weed.


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## 000420 (Feb 4, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> Could you post a link up cali', I'd be very interested in joining in.
> 
> 000420, you haven't read enough on phytochromes to completely understand what they are. Yes they react to red light and are responsible for photosynthesis, but they are not responsible for flowering. You also have phototropins that respond to blue light.
> 
> ...


phytochrome is what triggers many plants to start flowering...it is how plants see light.........i can't believe how many people don't now this......many plants are not photo period sensitive but most cannabis is...and it uses phytochrome to detect the change in photo period...

*Phytochrome* is a photoreceptor, a pigment that plants use to detect light. It is sensitive to light in the red and far-red region of the visible spectrum. Many flowering plants use it to regulate the time of flowering photoperiodism) based on the length of day and night ( and to set circadian rhythms. It also regulates other responses including the germination of seeds, elongation of seedlings, the size, shape and number of leaves, the synthesis of chlorophyll, and the straightening of the epicotyl or hypocotyl hook of dicot seedlings.
Biochemically, phytochrome is a protein with a bilin chromophore.
Phytochrome has been found in most plants including all higher plants; very similar molecules have been found in several bacteria. A fragment of a bacterial phytochrome now has a solved three-dimensional protein structure.
Other plant photoreceptors include cryptochromes and phototropins, which are sensitive to light in the blue and ultra-violet regions of the spectrum.



it's pretty easy...plants use phyto chrome to see light...when the photo period is right for certain plants......it triggers the flowering period....it's s fact...



why would you say i need to study phytochrome more...you can easily find the info yourself...

Phytochrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

phytochrome is how cannabis regulates the time of flowering...FACT.......

show some literature that says otherwise.....please


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## fdd2blk (Feb 4, 2008)

i now understand why some peoples plants look so big after 3 weeks of flowering. 'cause they aren't really at 3 weeks. more like 5.


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## 000420 (Feb 4, 2008)

more and more info on how the phytochrome system is used to detect photo period and trigger flowering........

Photoperiodism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many flowering plants use the pigment phytochrome to sense seasonal changes in day length, which they take as signals to flower. Broadly, flowering plants can be classified as long day plants, short day plants, or day neutral plants.
Long day plants require a certain amount of daylight to initiate flowering (this was initially thought) it is now known that it is actually the night length that will influence the flowering, so a long day plant needs a short night which in turn will mean it has a long day. These plants flower in the spring or summer. Conversely, short day plants will flower when the length of daylight falls below a certain amount. Short day plants need the night to be longer and therefore the days are short, they will flower in late summer, autumn or winter. Day neutral plants do not initiate flowering based on photoperiodism i.e. they can flower regardless of the night length; some may use temperature (vernalization) instead.
A long day plant is a plant that requires less than a certain number of hours of night in each 24 hour period to induce flowering. Long day plants typically flower in the late spring or early summer.
A short day plant is a plant that cannot flower under the long days of summer. Short day plants typically flower in the fall of the year. These plants require a certain number of hours of darkness in each 24 hour period (a short daylength) before floral development can begin. Plants use the phytochrome system to sense day length or photoperiod.
A short day plant (long night) will not flower if a flash of light is used on the plant during the night. This does not occur from natural light such as lightning, fire flies, etc.
Phytochrome is converted to its active form by red light (660 nm), and its inactive form by far-red light (730 nm). Moonlight produces a greater percentage of far-red light than sunlight, so during the night the phytochrome is slowly converted to its inactive form. More phytochrome is converted in a longer night, allowing the plant to measure the length of the night.
Other instances of photoperiodism in plants include the growth of stems or roots during certain seasons, or the loss of leaves.

Long day plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A *long day plant* is a plant that requires less than a certain number of hours of sunlight in each 24 hour period to induce flowering. Long day plants typically flower in the late spring or early summer Plants use the phytochrome system to sense daylength or photoperiod.

Short day plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A *short day plant* is a plant that cannot flower under the long days of summer. Short day plants typically flower in the fall of the year. These plants require a certain number of hours of darkness in each 24 hour period (a short daylength) before development can begin. Plants use the phytochrome system to sense daylength or photoperiod.


this is why I have a bloom room on 12/12.....right?


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## sharks (Feb 4, 2008)

Thank God for FDD and Garden Nome, Flowering starts the day YOU change lights to 12/12. 
Was getting sick of that one guy getting tag teamed by those dudes.
Its not about what you see, its about what the plant is doing internally.

This site rules.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 4, 2008)

sharks said:


> Thank God for FDD and Garden Nome, Flowering starts the day YOU change lights to 12/12.
> Was getting sick of that one guy getting tag teamed by those dudes.
> Its not about what you see, its about what the plant is doing internally.
> 
> This site rules.



i love sharks. first report i ever did in elementary school was on sharks. caught a few nice ones here and there as well.


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## 000420 (Feb 4, 2008)

sharks said:


> Thank God for FDD and Garden Nome, Flowering starts the day YOU change lights to 12/12.
> Was getting sick of that one guy getting tag teamed by those dudes.
> Its not about what you see, its about what the plant is doing internally.
> 
> This site rules.


thanks bro...it hurts getting tag teamed...my bum is sore.........i couldn't even 
believe they were arguing that shit...it was crazy...lol.....

sharks rule...


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## sharks (Feb 4, 2008)

Hey 420 and FDD, I am a newb and was hesitant at posting because I know those other guys had many grows under belt, but I am pretty well read on my new favorite hobby and never heard of starting to count flowering weeks based on what you saw and when you saw it.

I am a die hard fisherman and freediver and have had quite a few encounters with many species of sharks. They are never where you are looking but always where you are not looking, they truly understand stealth and sometimes stalk you for a while before the fins go down, their back arches and then you need to get your speargun or polespear between you and them quick or get back on beach or back in boat. Other times they truly are just checking you out and obviously mean you no harm at all.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 4, 2008)

sharks said:


> Hey 420 and FDD, I am a newb and was hesitant at posting because I know those other guys had many grows under belt, but I am pretty well read on my new favorite hobby and never heard of starting to count flowering weeks based on what you saw and when you saw it.
> 
> I am a die hard fisherman and freediver and have had quite a few encounters with many species of sharks. They are never where you are looking but always where you are not looking, they truly understand stealth and sometimes stalk you for a while before the fins go down, their back arches and then you need to get your speargun or polespear between you and them quick or get back on beach or back in boat. Other times they truly are just checking you out and obviously mean you no harm at all.



i worked on a commercial salmon boat off the california coast back in the early 80's. when the ocean was still alive. 

pretty good stuff.


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## bba (Feb 4, 2008)

bba said:


> i agree that a plant has to be sexually mature to be "flowering" light cycle 12-12 or not.
> 
> i agree that most people do not flower seedlings, so i can see both sides of the arguement.
> 
> ...


 
flowering does not start until your plant has shown sex..... period.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 4, 2008)

bba said:


> flowering does not start until your plant has shown sex..... period.



what if it's a clone from a female? then when does flowering start?


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## 000420 (Feb 4, 2008)

bba said:


> flowering does not start until your plant has shown sex..... period.


still it continues...you are wrong....photoperiod determines when the plant flowers............it's just science...i'm sorry....

phytochrome is what triggers many plants to start flowering...it is how plants see light.........i can't believe how many people don't now this......many plants are not photo period sensitive but most cannabis is...and it uses phytochrome to detect the change in photo period...

*Phytochrome* is a photoreceptor, a pigment that plants use to detect light. It is sensitive to light in the red and far-red region of the visible spectrum. Many flowering plants use it to regulate the time of flowering photoperiodism) based on the length of day and night ( and to set circadian rhythms. It also regulates other responses including the germination of seeds, elongation of seedlings, the size, shape and number of leaves, the synthesis of chlorophyll, and the straightening of the epicotyl or hypocotyl hook of dicot seedlings.
Biochemically, phytochrome is a protein with a bilin chromophore.
Phytochrome has been found in most plants including all higher plants; very similar molecules have been found in several bacteria. A fragment of a bacterial phytochrome now has a solved three-dimensional protein structure.
Other plant photoreceptors include cryptochromes and phototropins, which are sensitive to light in the blue and ultra-violet regions of the spectrum.



it's pretty easy...plants use phyto chrome to see light...when the photo period is right for certain plants......it triggers the flowering period....it's s fact...


more and more info on how the phytochrome system is used to detect photo period and trigger flowering........

Photoperiodism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many flowering plants use the pigment phytochrome to sense seasonal changes in day length, which they take as signals to flower. Broadly, flowering plants can be classified as long day plants, short day plants, or day neutral plants.
Long day plants require a certain amount of daylight to initiate flowering (this was initially thought) it is now known that it is actually the night length that will influence the flowering, so a long day plant needs a short night which in turn will mean it has a long day. These plants flower in the spring or summer. Conversely, short day plants will flower when the length of daylight falls below a certain amount. Short day plants need the night to be longer and therefore the days are short, they will flower in late summer, autumn or winter. Day neutral plants do not initiate flowering based on photoperiodism i.e. they can flower regardless of the night length; some may use temperature (vernalization) instead.
A long day plant is a plant that requires less than a certain number of hours of night in each 24 hour period to induce flowering. Long day plants typically flower in the late spring or early summer.
A short day plant is a plant that cannot flower under the long days of summer. Short day plants typically flower in the fall of the year. These plants require a certain number of hours of darkness in each 24 hour period (a short daylength) before floral development can begin. Plants use the phytochrome system to sense day length or photoperiod.
A short day plant (long night) will not flower if a flash of light is used on the plant during the night. This does not occur from natural light such as lightning, fire flies, etc.
Phytochrome is converted to its active form by red light (660 nm), and its inactive form by far-red light (730 nm). Moonlight produces a greater percentage of far-red light than sunlight, so during the night the phytochrome is slowly converted to its inactive form. More phytochrome is converted in a longer night, allowing the plant to measure the length of the night.
Other instances of photoperiodism in plants include the growth of stems or roots during certain seasons, or the loss of leaves.

Long day plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A *long day plant* is a plant that requires less than a certain number of hours of sunlight in each 24 hour period to induce flowering. Long day plants typically flower in the late spring or early summer Plants use the phytochrome system to sense daylength or photoperiod.

Short day plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A *short day plant* is a plant that cannot flower under the long days of summer. Short day plants typically flower in the fall of the year. These plants require a certain number of hours of darkness in each 24 hour period (a short daylength) before development can begin. Plants use the phytochrome system to sense daylength or photoperiod.

i didn't make this up it's real........
this is why I have a bloom room on 12/12.....right?


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## pccdrom (Feb 5, 2008)

bba said:


> flowering does not start until your plant has shown sex..... period.


I get my clones well rooted with pistils. they are showing sex when i get them, i already know they are female. I veg my plants with 18/6 lighting , & flower with 12/12. They do not start to flower until i change the lights. My clones would stay in veg until I switch the lights to 12/12.
Are you trying to say that my clones are flowering when i have the lights on 18/6?


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## fdd2blk (Feb 5, 2008)

and they still continue to embarrass themselves. funny.


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## pccdrom (Feb 5, 2008)

1st day of flower is when i switch the lights. thats wot im sayin.


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## bba (Feb 5, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> what if it's a clone from a female? then when does flowering start?


if the mother plant was sexually mature, then the clones would also be sexually mature. This is the instance most use, so yes when u switch the lights, you are indeed in flower.

The arguement here that nobody is catching, is that seedlings, and or plants not sexually mature, will take longer, because they ARE NOT sexually mature, and will keep growing "Veg" until they show sex. Once sex has been shown, then you can begin your flowering days.

so clones = sexually mature, USUALLY

seedlings or plants not mature will take longer......... PERIOD


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## bba (Feb 5, 2008)

pccdrom said:


> I get my clones well rooted with pistils. they are showing sex when i get them, i already know they are female. I veg my plants with 18/6 lighting , & flower with 12/12. They do not start to flower until i change the lights. My clones would stay in veg until I switch the lights to 12/12.
> Are you trying to say that my clones are flowering when i have the lights on 18/6?


 
nope im not, but your plants are now sexually mature!


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## bba (Feb 5, 2008)

000420 said:


> still it continues...you are wrong....photoperiod determines when the plant flowers............it's just science...i'm sorry....
> 
> phytochrome is what triggers many plants to start flowering...it is how plants see light.........i can't believe how many people don't now this......many plants are not photo period sensitive but most cannabis is...and it uses phytochrome to detect the change in photo period...
> 
> ...


YOU AGAIN! 

im sorry that you feel i am wrong, but infact i am right.

ill say it again

sexually mature plants ie: clones are ALREADY SEXUALLY MATURE!!!!!!!!

seedlings, and small plants will take longer man, they will continue to veg until they are mature. Once they are mature then yes flowering will begin.

i tell ya what, just for shits and giggles, ill start a journal, start a seedling, throw it into flower with my sexually mature clones, and prove it to ya 

yall are just missing the most vital point of this debate. 

~BBA


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## CALIGROWN (Feb 5, 2008)

I was going to say something similar...but what I think it come down to is ...Im pretty sure we all know when our plants are done, how many of you go exactly 8 weeks flowering if it says the strain should be done in 8 weeks?? I think more then time, we go by what they look like and how done they are. so I think the argument is more how do we keep track of time when flowering. I tend to agree more with bba's opinion on flowering, but all in all I dont think it's an issue of any one person being wrong, because we can all find ways to justify what we think is right.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 5, 2008)

bba said:


> YOU AGAIN!
> 
> im sorry that you feel i am wrong, but infact i am right.
> 
> ...




the debate is: what day do you call day 1 of flowering?

all this talk of plant age and maturity is drifting from the original debate.

people were saying you don't start counting until you see flowers. others were saying you start when you first see flowers. it had nothing to do with the age of the plant.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 5, 2008)

CALIGROWN said:


> I was going to say something similar...but what I think it come down to is ...Im pretty sure we all know when our plants are done, how many of you go exactly 8 weeks flowering if it says the strain should be done in 8 weeks?? I think more then time, we go by what they look like and how done they are. so I think the argument is more how do we keep track of time when flowering. I tend to agree more with bba's opinion on flowering, but all in all I dont think it's an issue of any one person being wrong, because we can all find ways to justify what we think is right.



there has to be a right and wrong. otherwise confusion arises.


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## 000420 (Feb 5, 2008)

bba said:


> YOU AGAIN!
> 
> im sorry that you feel i am wrong, but infact i am right.
> 
> ...


dude my only point ever is that cannabis is photo-period sensitive....it reacts to long nights and short days by starting the flowering process...using the phytochrome system....i know you agree you seem smart....

a seedling is immature..it is stressed by a photo period change at such a young age, it also has a different chemical make up then a mature plant so yes the photo period change will take longer to show the signs but they will come non the less the photo period will induce flowering but may cause some problems because of the stress you caused........


do this experiment...from seed veg 2 plants....germinate them at the same time only a week from germination put one into 12/12 let the other one stay in veg for another week and a half and then put it into 12/12 with the other plant...from what you are saying...the first plant that rotated in will continue to veg because it was not sexually mature, as will the one that stayed in the veg room...only this one will be bigger as it benefited from longer days for another week and a half ......now that the second plant is rotated in, they are both in 12/12 until they become sexually mature and then will both finish at the same time because they both start to flower at the same time regardless of the fact that one was moved into 12/12 a week and a half earlier because neither one was sexually mature they continued to veg regardless of photo period until they were ready.....

I've done this and it's not what happens...the one that goes in a week and a half earlier...will finish before the other one that moves into 12/12 later...because the photo period change will cause it to go into bloom.......

this is the whole reason why people flower seedlings or immature plants, is to start the flowering process.....to keep the plant small or for whatever reason,,,if it didn't matter when you started 12/12 people wouldn't do it early.........


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## bba (Feb 5, 2008)

000420 said:


> do this experiment...from seed veg 2 plants....germinate them at the same time only a week from germination put one into 12/12 let the other one stay in veg for another week and a half and then put it into 12/12 with the other plant...from what you are saying...the first plant that rotated in will continue to veg because it was not sexually mature, as will the one that stayed in the veg room...only this one will be bigger as it benefited from longer days for another week and a half ......now that the second plant is rotated in, they are both in 12/12 until they become sexually mature and then will both finish at the same time because they both start to flower at the same time regardless of the fact that one was moved into 12/12 a week and a half earlier because neither one was sexually mature they continued to veg regardless of photo period until they were ready.......


 
again you are missing my point.

and i do not disagree with what u posted above

i do however think that you are still missing my point, so ill do my best to make it more clear, please do not take the caps as me being angry, cuz im not.

OK first off, your comparison is comparing 2 seeds...... and with what u posted above is absolutley correct, and i will not argue that with you.

by germinating the seeds at the same time.... each seedling will mature at the same time in a 12-12 or 24-0, light cycles INDUCE flowering, that doesnt allways mean the plants are FLOWERING!!!!

ok now my comparison uses 1 sexually immature seedling assuming its a female here, to 1 sexually mature clone taken from a sexually mature mother.

If i take the IMMATURE seedling, and a sexually MATURE CLONE, throw them in 12-12, since the clone is already sexually mature, it will begin flowering AS SOON AS THE LIGHTS GO 12-12.

If i take a 2 inch seedling that is NOT SEXUALLY MATURE, meaning we have no idea what it is, but in this case we are assuming that this seedling is a female. Since this plant has not shown sex, and has been put in a 12-12 cycle, yes we have induced flowering, but... we are not flowering because our seedling is NOT SEXUALLY MATURE, and in no way will it start to flower, until it has reached a mature state sexually.

since we have induced a 12-12 cycle, our immature plants will still grow in a veg state, not a bloom state, until it has reached maturity. Keep in mind by switching the light cycle the plants will go through a growth spurt just like a mature plant would, but it still is not flowering. once the plant show its sex, then its mature, and will begin flower production.

ok so recap

your comparison = seeds germ'd same date, but flowered a week and a half apart.

my comparison = 2inch SEEDLING vs sexually mature clones

i sure hope this makes sense now. 

~BBA


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