# First Grow Stealth Bubbleponics



## Ray Fox (Feb 9, 2009)

I promised myself I would never join one of these marijuana forums, swore to myself... Unless one day I decided to start a grow op. Well here I am. 

I should start by explaining that my set up is simple, I am using the Stealth Bubbleponics kit that is on their website. I am growing in a cardboard box approx. 5 feet by 2.5 feet, lined with white reflective duct tape. Due to the bubbleponics kit it looks as though I am getting a flourescent dual spectrum kit. However I am open to suggestions, I will most likely be replacing those lights with much larger flourescent lights (the kind that fit in a regular socket, not sure of the wattage)

Obviously I am planning a cheap, and preferably quick grow.

But Firstly are there any recommendations on which strain to grow? I am looking for something with a big yield and high potency (Aren't we all?) that grows small and bushy, fast, and of course, feminized.

Right now I am getting Nirvana ICE from Attitude Seeds. Though I am unsure how easy they are to grow.

Any suggestions? I need to order seeds by wednesday.


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## Roseman (Feb 10, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> I promised myself I would never join one of these marijuana forums, swore to myself... Unless one day I decided to start a grow op. Well here I am.
> 
> I should start by explaining that my set up is simple, I am using the Stealth Bubbleponics kit that is on their website. I am growing in a cardboard box approx. 5 feet by 2.5 feet, lined with white reflective duct tape.
> I hope 5 ft is not the Height.
> ...


Here is a condensed version of our thread:


Roseman and purpdaddys guide for my Bubbleponics setup from Stealth Hydroponic

and here is the long thread:

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/7897-stealth-hydro-bubbleponics-systems-446.html

let me know how I can help you.

btw, I wrote their Grow Manual.


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## Roseman (Feb 10, 2009)

*Diagnosis and Recuperation Guide

*

Both new leaves and mature leaves are the best indicators to determine how healthy your plants are. Any problem or illness will first manifest itself in the appearance of your leaves. These problems almost always originate from the plant's environment, PH imbalance or over-feeding and under feeding. These problems always result in what is called "nutritional lock-out". 

*Nutritional Lockout*
Allow us to GIVE you a simplified definition of NUTRIONAL LOCKOUT.
Can you imagine sitting a plate before a child at dinner time, with his most favorite food, hot dogs, ketchup and french fries? But also on the plate is a major portion of steamed broccoli, which he is just not fond of and insists on nibbling on. Now imagine telling that child, "you can not eat the hot dog and fries if you do not eat all the broccoli too". NUTRITONAL LOCKOUT is when the child responds with "well then, I just won't eat!"

Most Hydro nutes nutrients are both nutritionally and PH balanced. But after being in your tank for 5 or 6 days, and being eaten from for 5 or 6 days, they become imbalanced. Perhaps you are growing plants that ate all the nitrogen first and just snacked around the iron, magnesium and calcium, or visa versa. The results are discoloration in the leaves, yellowing or rust spots, or curling up of leaf tips. It also becomes apparent when your plants were consuming a gallon or half gallon of water every day, and then suddenly when you check the levels the next day, they did not drink any water at all. This is NUTRITIONAL LOCKOUT.

Instead of giving lengthy descriptions of indications of overfeeding, underfeeding, ph imbalance, environmental problems and Nutritional Lockout here, it is easier to just give the remedy. Here we will refer to this remedy as THE RECUPERATION AND RECOVERY REMEDY. 


*THE 8 STEP RECUPERATION AND RECOVERY REMEDY* 

*1.* Check the roots. If they are discolored, reddish or brown, or present an unpleasant odor, you have a problem. If they are weak, soft or mushy, you have a problem. Also while checking the roots, observe the temperature of the water. If it is warmer than "luke warm" you have a problem. This problem is probably what is referred to as "root rot" or a disease known as PYTHIUM. Remove the dead brown roots by trimming them away with sharp scissors. Do not leave them in the tank. 
*2.* Check the humidity and temperature of the grow area below the lights in the "growing zone" when the lights are on. A temperature of above 82 degrees or below 67 degrees will slow growth, but it is not a serious problem that will kill your plants. Temperatures below 62 degrees or above 90 degrees will stop growth. An extremely high temperature in the upper 90s or below 58 degrees can slowly result in death of your plants. The most efficient temps for growth are between 72 to 80 degrees. Any Humidity between 40 and 60 percent is acceptable and desirable.
*3.* Check the "lights off, nighttime" temperature. Most desirable is ten to 15 degrees cooler than the daytime "lights on" temperature, averaging 66 to 70 degrees. 
*4.* Check the distance between the tips of the plant and the tip of the light bulb. If you observe yellowing or leaf curling tips, then move the lights one inch further away. A good rule of thumb if you use HID lights, is hold the soft palm of your hand at the leaf tip and see if the bulb is too warm to your hand. If you use Stealth Hydro's compact fluorescent bulbs, we recommend a distance of three or four inches for the 65 and 85 watt bulbs and 4 inches to five inches for the 105 watt bulbs. More mature plants can handle the bulbs slightly closer. 
*5.* Check the position of your fans. Air movement is very necessary for the health of your plants, but too strong of a fan can cause wind burn. Direct your fan toward the tops of the plants and toward the lights. Never position the fan blowing strongly downward on the leaves. 
*6.* Add 1/4 teaspoon of 3% hydrogen peroxide to a gallon of water and add it to the tank per 5 gallons already in the tank. Wait ten minutes and then turn the water and nutrition solution pump off to prepare to drain the tank. Poor at least a cup of clean water through each grow cup, onto each rockwool cube and through the hydroton rocks. 
*7.* Drain or pump the tank empty as possible without damaging the pump by running it dry. Add two gallons of additional clean water with 4 teaspoons of hydrogen peroxide again and then drain it away too. Again, empty the tank as empty as possible without burning up your pump.
*8.* Add fresh PH balanced water and nutritional packets as prescribed. PH test it again.

The above 8 steps should repair and remedy any health problems that your plants experienced within the next two days. Now is the time to try and determine what caused the problem to start with, by investigating and researching typical hydroponics problems and illnesses. Here are a few DIAGNOSIS TIPS. 


*Typical Hydroponics Problems and Illnesses*

*Underfeeding and Weak Nutrition*
The entire plant, both upper and lower leaves, will show lime or light green in color.
The plant will not eat, drink or show growth.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.

*Overfeeding, Use of Too Strong Nutrients*
The leaves will curl downward. They grow very dark dull flat green and then the tips show signs of burn.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.

*Nutritional Lockout*
You know that you have made recent PH adjustments. You might know you may have used too much of the PH Adjustment Solution. You may have failed to test the PH often enough. You notice the plants did not eat or drink because they did not consume the same amount of water they used yesterday. You see rust spots. The large lower leaves are prematurely dying and you are not in the BLOOMING or FLOWERING stage.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.

*Wind Burn*
You had the fan blowing downward toward the upper side of the leaves, instead of blowing up through the node spaces or toward the lights. You observe the leaves becoming dry or even crispy, perhaps shriveling, and the tips curling upward. The leaves do not appear glossy, moist and vibrant.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.

*Water, Nutrition Solution or Roots Are Discolored Brown Or Have an Unpleasant Odor*
You notice your water is becoming brownish in color, or smells distasteful. Your solution does not smell pleasant and appetizing like fresh lettuce. Your roots are not the same shade of white that they once were a week ago.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.


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## Ray Fox (Feb 10, 2009)

Roseman, thanks so much for your prompt reply and your advice. 

I hope 5 ft is not the Height.

Unfortunately the box we're using is 5.5 feet tall, and 2 x 2 wide. And Long story short, we HAVE to use it. Do you still think it will work? Should we get a different strain besides ICE that would grow shorter? 

Make sure it is INDICA.

As per your advice, ICE has Afghani, Skunk and Northern Lights background so I think it is mostly Indica.

Also, is it really worth getting the Stealth bubbleponics kit? Or should we get the Mini Hydro Harvest with one 5000K Luni Twist? (The one from Hydroponicz)

We are first time growers and want to do this right but due to the conditions of necessary discretion, we need it as simply as possible and with as little maintenance as possible. Hence choosing a simple hydroponics kit. 

Also, we're only growing 3 plants. That might be more helpful. 

Please let me know!


*
*


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## blueybong (Feb 10, 2009)

Ray, are you a handy kind of guy? If so, check out this thread on another forum:

http://www.greenpassion.org/f39/diy-stealth-rubbermaid-growbox-225/

This may work for you.


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## Ray Fox (Feb 10, 2009)

blueybong said:


> Ray, are you a handy kind of guy? If so, check out this thread on another forum:
> 
> http://www.greenpassion.org/f39/diy-stealth-rubbermaid-growbox-225/
> 
> This may work for you.


Blueybong, I checked it out. Looks legit. The cardboard box design I'm using is based off of one grow box I saw on youtube, so I'm hoping it will work. 

Here is the setup, tell me what you think: 

1. approx 5.5' x 2' x 2' thick Cardboard box with white reflective electrical tape lining the insides. The "door" will also be made of thick cardboard which it will be easy to open with velcro lining. There will be a hole in the side for a fan. 
2. Stealth Hydroponics system sitting on a piece of styrofoam at the bottom.
3. Two 6500K, 85 Watt CFL - 350 Watt incandescent bulbs at the top lowered above the plants with twine. If necessary I will add flourescents tubes on the sides. 

Any other suggestions? I will post pictures of it as soon as I am done.


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## blueybong (Feb 10, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Blueybong, I checked it out. Looks legit. The cardboard box design I'm using is based off of one grow box I saw on youtube, so I'm hoping it will work.
> 
> Here is the setup, tell me what you think:
> 
> ...



Good to see you're looking for a nice short bush. 

A pH & ppm meter are really nice. If you're using tap water, any generic liquid down will work.


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## Ray Fox (Feb 10, 2009)

Good to see you're looking for a nice short bush. 

Did you have any type in mind that would be best? My preference is Nirvana seeds ICE but I'm open to suggestions. 

A pH & ppm meter are really nice. If you're using tap water, any generic liquid down will work. 

Liquid Down?


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## blueybong (Feb 11, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Good to see you're looking for a nice short bush.
> 
> Did you have any type in mind that would be best? My preference is Nirvana seeds ICE but I'm open to suggestions.
> 
> ...


Liquid Down is pH Down. Normal tap water is around 7.0 to 7.6 and weed grows best with a pH of around 5.5 to 6.5 with 5.8 to 6.0 being the best. So you'll need to get some pH Down to get your tap water pH to the correct level.

I'm too new to offer any advice on what strain will grow short & bushy.

Peace!!


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## blueybong (Feb 11, 2009)

I used mylar, which I believe really helped. Oh yea, start off with two 85W CFL's and if it's not too hot, add a 3rd after the first week.
Here's a link to my grow:
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/143000-blueys-sh-bubbleponics-system-grow.html


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## Roseman (Feb 11, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Unfortunately the box we're using is 5.5 feet tall, and 2 x 2 wide. And Long story short, we HAVE to use it. Do you still think it will work? Should we get a different strain besides ICE that would grow shorter?
> 
> You can VEG a shorter period of time and you can bend them over too.
> 
> ...


I can't advise you what to do, but I;'d be glad to advise you AFTER you decide.


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## Ray Fox (Feb 11, 2009)

Thank you so much Roseman and Blueybong!

We are ordering everything tomorrow and sketched out the plan as follows:

1. We are no longer ordering Nirvana ICE, but instead switched to White Label's WHITE ICE. It grows smaller, big yield and in a shorter period of time. (more expensive but attitude seeds is also sending 5 fem thai super skunk and 1 fem gigabud seed!!!)

2. The grow design stays the same, and we decided to keep the Stealth Hydroponics but instead buy the Dual Spectrum II upgrade (which if your familiar with, is 8400 lumens of blue and red light... Does that mean its 85 watt thought?).

3. Finally, the cardboard box design stays the same. I checked out Bluey's link to the plastic tub grow box and the dimensions are similar, if the box is not larger. The cardboard is about a half inch thick and lined entirely with white duct tape. Based off Bluey's new grow (What can I say? Thanks bluey) I'm using the scrog method and placing a screen above the plants if they start to get too close to the bulbs. Also we are getting an air ionizer to get rid of any smell. 

All in all it should be good. After, no exaggeration, YEARS of reading about all kinds of various grow operations of all shade and color I'm very excited to see how my own will turn out after investing the proper time and money into it. Wish me luck gentleman. I will be posting pictures and no doubt looking for any advice you have to give. 

RF


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## blueybong (Feb 12, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Thank you so much Roseman and Blueybong!
> 
> We are ordering everything tomorrow and sketched out the plan as follows:
> 
> ...


Rock on bro!!!!


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## Ray Fox (Mar 6, 2009)

As you can see, the grow box has been finished. Although there is no picture of it, the hydroponics kit is totally set up and we have now officially started germinating White Label's White Ice in rockwool! 

Included is another picture of the box with ACCURATE measurements (for a change). I intend to start scrogging about 8 to 10 inches up (Supposedly these plants get huge) leaving approximately 3 x 2 feet of sheer grow space. 

Comments? Suggestions?


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## blueybong (Mar 6, 2009)

Is the white piece of pvc on the top an exhaust port?

You'll need to exhaust through the top side and allow enough of an opening on the bottom for fresh air.

Air circulation is how to keep your temps & humidity under control.

Peace!!


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## Ray Fox (Mar 9, 2009)

We have sproutage! Two of the three rockwool cubes have sprouts. We set up one light for for the plants and everything seems to be going nicely. We also added 1 half bag of Micro and 1 half bag of Grow nutrient mix to the water. We cut a hole in the corner of the box (Not visible, but its on the other side of the door) to let air in, and there is another hole (both approximately 2 x 2 inches) for air to vent through. 

Any tips for the early sprouting stage?


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## smokeitd (Mar 9, 2009)

don't add nutes.

your rockwool looks soaked.. shake off excess water, never squeeze.

don't put a lot of light on them. at first start with about 1 cfl per plant then add more as they get more leaves.

keep cfl about 4-5 inches away from them, then drop them to about 2-3 inches after a week


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## Roseman (Mar 10, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> We have sproutage! Two of the three rockwool cubes have sprouts. We set up one light for for the plants and everything seems to be going nicely. We also added 1 half bag of Micro and 1 half bag of Grow nutrient mix to the water. We cut a hole in the corner of the box (Not visible, but its on the other side of the door) to let air in, and there is another hole (both approximately 2 x 2 inches) for air to vent through.
> 
> Any tips for the early sprouting stage?


 
What are your temps? temp of water? temp of area around the sprouts? 
what is the pH?

Remember that in nature, in outdoors, a sprout comes up looking for food and light, but you did good with 1/2 to start with. I use dto start with a full packet and I dropped down to 1/4 packet at the sight of the 3rd and 4th leaf, then 1/4 packet added every other day. The Instruction CD says start with half and that works fine.
I hope you are using the 6500k bulb, if you are using just one. I suggest go ahead and use both, for the DUAL Spectrum. 
If you place the lights too high or far away, like 4 or 5 inches, they will STRETCH TOO TALL, TOO early. I've done a ton of experiments for Stealth Hydro, and wrote reprots for them. One test was placement of bulbs. The 85s can be two inches close, with no harmful effect and with favorable effect. 
Have you visited our SH thread?
here:Pics of Pot that is a link to the middle, where we have the most pics.
and here is a link to a condensed much shorter version of the same thread:
Roseman and purpdaddys guide for my Bubbleponics setup from Stealth Hydroponic you really need to read it all, it is NOT too long.

Good Luck and let me know how we can help. Blueybong is an expert withthe SH bubbleponics system too.


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## Roseman (Mar 10, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> We have sproutage! Two of the three rockwool cubes have sprouts. We set up one light for for the plants and everything seems to be going nicely. We also added 1 half bag of Micro and 1 half bag of Grow nutrient mix to the water. We cut a hole in the corner of the box (Not visible, but its on the other side of the door) to let air in, and there is another hole (both approximately 2 x 2 inches) for air to vent through.
> 
> Any tips for the early sprouting stage?


RAY, I went back and studied your pics.

Are those feminized seeds? IF YES, then 3 is great. IF NOT, you should start 6 and remove the males later. 
And, you need to make some covers, to cover the rocks, so LIGHT does not penetrate thru the rocks and give you algae. I use the bottoms cut out of styrafoam saucers, see: 
  
After the plants are bushy, you don't need the covers.

AND your light is too far away.

Peace,


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## Ray Fox (Mar 10, 2009)

ROSEMAN,

Thank you so so much for this advice, this is exactly what we were looking for. 

Are those feminized seeds?

Yes they are. We are growing 3 feminized White Ice plants.

 you need to make some covers, to cover the rocks.

We realized that after giving your and Purpdaddy's grow journal another read through, and covered them with pieces of paper. 
  
 AND your light is too far away.

We moved the light closer to the plants, about 3 inches above them (though in this picture the red spectrum light needed to be lowered). Just for the record, we are using Dual Spectrum II lights. Also, notice the newest addition to the WI family! The PH is exactly 6.0 and I'm not sure of the exact temperature of the water, but we keep it at a temperature of just barely lukewarm. We're going to change water every Saturday. And another question: When you SCROG how do you keep the plants in place without breaking stems when changing the water?

- Ray Fox


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## Roseman (Mar 11, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> ROSEMAN,
> 
> Thank you so so much for this advice, this is exactly what we were looking for.
> . And another question: When you SCROG how do you keep the plants in place without breaking stems when changing the water?
> ...


 
SCOG is for having a lot of smaller plants in a small confined space, and you are trying to grow MORE plants in that small space, a shorter or faster period of time. There is a big arguement or debate on whether it is wiser and smarter to grow less BIG Plants Longer, or More SMALL plants shorter, to get a better yield.
I have done both.
A Sea of Green is what you see, if you grow 6 plants in this system.
In my humble opinion, 3 plants will not accomplish that, and unless you are in a big hurry to get less yield, I can not recommend a SOG grow for you. 
It would really look foolish to show a SOG with ONLY 3 plants.
IF you insist, for example, you have very little HEIGHT Space, get some Chicken wire, or Fish Net, or a lot of strong cords to tie them with. But it is going to look sort of silly to do it with only 3 plants.

You can get no more than 2 or 3 ounces or you can get 9 to 12 ounces of dried manicured buds, , depending on what you decide.


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## Ray Fox (Mar 11, 2009)

IF you insist, for example, you have very little HEIGHT Space, get some Chicken wire, or Fish Net, or a lot of strong cords to tie them with. But it is going to look sort of silly to do it with only 3 plants.

A Screen of Green seems pretty ideal. When the plants grow to about a bushy 8-10 inches, we're going to start Scrogging. I've looked at a lot of scrogs in small spaces and I think this set up is perfect for it. But you really think Scrogging with 3 plants is silly? I am following this grow so far for SCROG: Master Kush scrog. 150w hps, 1 mini fridge, 1 seed. hydro - flowering PICS - Marijuana Growing 

The grow above was in a mini-fridge and from only 1 plant yielded 3.5 ounces of dry bud. But instead of making a net like that grow, we're gonna use some heavy chicken wire and stick some wiring through the sides of the box so it stays in place. 

Or 9 to 12 ounces of dried manicured buds, , depending on what you decide.

I'm hoping to use the SCROG method to yield 9-12 ounces. 12 ounces (336 grams) would actually be the PERFECT amount. I know some of you growers think 12 ounces isn't much, but this is our first time and we don't want to overdo it. 12 is a pretty sturdy, modest number. Anyone looking at this thread please help us to achieve our goal of 12 ounces!!!

- Ray Fox


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## Roseman (Mar 11, 2009)

Unsubscribed


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## Ray Fox (Mar 16, 2009)

The first week is over and it has proved an interesting one. The plants have all grown significantly with the exception of one which died when the light fell on it (Not to worry though, we've secured the lights now). There is also another seedling growing (Not pictured) and on the way. So far so good. Comments?


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## Ray Fox (Mar 17, 2009)

Here is are some more pictures of the girls. In the right you can sort of see the dead second planted White Ice. The new one is still sprouting but will be added to the rest most likely tomorrow. 

There was a slight burn on two of the leaves on the plant all the way to the left of the pictures. I clipped the more burnt parts and I cut the totally burnt leaf. 

Also, notice on the bottom of the picture of the a basket with hydroton rocks there are several white spots. In a better quality picture one would notice many tiny white dots on the rocks. What is this? Should we be concerned? The water temperature also keeps getting warmer, and we were concerned about the light that could leak through the extra baskets so we sealed them up with index cards and white tape (done after the pictures were taken). We added extra ice to the water to cool it down.


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## Ray Fox (Mar 19, 2009)

So the bottom of one of the roots (the long one that can be seen dangling all the way at the bottom of the basket in the picture) is turning light brown at the tip that has reached the water. We've been adding grow nutrients with every change of water (only 1 change so far). Is this normal? What should we do!?

Also, the box is getting a little humid. And the water is getting warm. The plants look totally healthy but we're concerned with the growth of the roots. The temperature of the box itself is 75 degrees during the day and 85 at night. Is this okay? Should we add a fan? We're very new to this so all the help we can get would be great. Please!


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## MostlyCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Ray,

It almost looks like you have a little nutritional salt build up or mold on the hydrotron. Is the hydroton new? I'd also put covers over the pots with the plants otherwise you will get mold/algea which this also could be. It also helps keep the light off the hydroton. Roots don't like light at all. Let me know how that works out.


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## Ray Fox (Mar 19, 2009)

It almost looks like you have a little nutritional salt build up or mold on the hydrotron. Is the hydroton new?[/quote]

Hey MostlyCrazy, yes the hydroton is new, and like a couple of anxious idiots we forgot to clean the hydroton before putting it in. I think it is most likely some kind of mold. How should we remedy this?

I'd also put covers over the pots with the plants otherwise you will get mold/algea which this also could be. It also helps keep the light off the hydroton. Roots don't like light at all. Let me know how that works out.[/quote]

Right after taking these pictures, we covered up the pots with large index cards and sealed them down with white duct tape. 

What should we do to prevent root rot??


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## JonnyBtreed (Mar 19, 2009)

try adding some water bottles to keep the res temp down. If it does become a problem you can add 20 ml. of hydrogen peroxide to kill any algae or root rot.


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## caddy (Mar 19, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> I'm hoping to use the SCROG method to yield 9-12 ounces. 12 ounces (336 grams) would actually be the PERFECT amount. I know some of you growers think 12 ounces isn't much, but this is our first time and we don't want to overdo it. 12 is a pretty sturdy, modest number. Anyone looking at this thread please help us to achieve our goal of 12 ounces!!!
> 
> - Ray Fox


I don't bother with screens and such but I did start a grow from seed like you just a while ago using deep water culture as my method. The SOG method I use is the same in theory, I just veg my SOG clones longer than most. Some immediately flower on roots, I wait until they're about 8"-12" tall. You could just cut larger clones but that depends on your mother plant(s) situation which is a different discussion based on individual grow operations.

My first batch of only 4 plants gave a yield of just about 450 grams manicured, dried, cured bud. (Still curing I should say.) Growing 3 or 4 plants in a SOG "style" is just fine don't listen to the fact you'll only get 3 ounces. Maybe only 3 total if you veg'd them for a week and harvested early. I have 15 clones a few weeks away from being done and another 20 behind that. If you want a pound (or close) out of your 3, veg them for at least 6 weeks and have roughly 7 feet of spare height in the flowering room. Flower them for another 8 weeks and if you followed the rules you will be tremendously surprised. Keep it simple, don't bother with funky additives, weird additions to reservoirs and hocus pocus many growers talk about, do what is proven and works. D your experimenting later if you really find it necessary after that first huge yeild with a small amount of plants. 

Look at my grow pictures in my signature, I assure you that group of 4 plants is definitely a thick sea of green, haha. Anyway, your expectations can easily be achieved. The best advice I can give for a similar result is follow the rules of hydroponic PH and PPM levels with your feed, strictly. Do not skip steps or cut corners until you know how and where you are able to do so.


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## Ray Fox (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks guys,

Caddy thank you. Check out the second page of the thread, our box is only 4. 8 feet tall, so we sorta don't have room for a SOG I don't think. 

- Ray Fox


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## motif (Mar 19, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> Caddy thank you. Check out the second page of the thread, our box is only 4. 8 feet tall, so we sorta don't have room for a SOG I don't think.
> 
> - Ray Fox



heyo fox, thanks for dropping by 

the brown roots = bad

brown roots is a straight sign of root rot. After reading through your thread, this was defenitely caused by two things: 
1.) light penetrating through the cups
2.) hot water temperatures

*Solution:

1.)Spray the roots with a solution of hydrogen peroxide/warm water. 

2.) Change your reservoir water out (future reference, have frozen bottles of water handy in your freezer if temps rise)

--------------------------------------------

Temperatures above 70 F in your water begin to invite patheogens and bacteria you dont want, so keep the temps below that (anywhere in 60's is good).

Oh yeah, also add a fan either outside your intake and have it blowing in, or place it inside the box in front of the intake and pull air through the hole. This should help keep your temps lower.

Let me know what happens
*


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## Ray Fox (Mar 19, 2009)

Hey so we made some adjustments:

the brown roots = bad
1.) light penetrating through the cups[/quote]

We cut off the bad part of the root and covered all the cups and the surrounding parts of the plants with index cards taped down with white tape.


2.) hot water temperatures

*Solution:

1.)Spray the roots with a solution of hydrogen peroxide/warm water. 

2.) Change your reservoir water out (future reference, have frozen bottles of water handy in your freezer if temps rise) [/quote]

*We've added hydrogen peroxide and sprayed the rocks and roots accordingly, and we're adding ice packs around the SH system and we've got more ready for action. This should fix it now. Thanks guys! Here's a pic.


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## motif (Mar 19, 2009)

make sure those index cards are lightproof. Check under the lid and see if it is totally dark or not. If not, tape down another index card on top of the already placed ones


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## MostlyCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

I use aluminum tape. $5 at WM. Seals things up nicely and reflects light back up.


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## motif (Mar 22, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> I use aluminum tape. $5 at WM. Seals things up nicely and reflects light back up.


me too, but i had to double up over the holes because it wasnt completely lightproof with just one layer


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## Ray Fox (Mar 23, 2009)

motif said:


> me too, but i had to double up over the holes because it wasnt completely lightproof with just one layer


Okay, so everything is tightly taped down, the SH system is being kept cool by tossing in two frozen water bottles every couple hours, the plants  are growing more roots, leaves and growing larger than ever. Thanks guys! Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated. Please continue to look over our grow journal for new pictures every week. Here are the pics:


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## motif (Mar 24, 2009)

looks like you got the hang of it now. Have you considered topping the two larger plants??


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## Ray Fox (Mar 24, 2009)

motif said:


> looks like you got the hang of it now. Have you considered topping the two larger plants??


Not sure Motif, is it really so much better? Doesn't the shock to cutting too much of the plant do more damage?


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## motif (Mar 25, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Not sure Motif, is it really so much better? Doesn't the shock to cutting too much of the plant do more damage?



you will most defenitely thank yourself for doing it when your flowering.

Topping is when you cut out the two new leaves out of the top of a shoot. This makes a One Cola Branch, DOUBLE.

The 'shock' is minor, and your not in flowering so its not gonna decrease yeild, in fact it gives you more room for more buds to grow.

I topped one of my new plants growing on the side, on every shoot, twice (week apart) and it is growing like a FREAK. There are branches coming out of more branches coming out of more branches. If this turns out to be a female, i will be very ecstatic 

i counted 9 new shoots, like week 3 veg i believe. Ill upload some pics on my thread later tonight when i get outta class.

When you top a plant, it opens up more room/branches for bud to grow on, i HIGHLY suggest it.

Don't make any cuts until you know what your doing, i would go more in depth but im in a rush and dont have time right now, maybe later tonight.....


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## Ray Fox (Mar 27, 2009)

motif said:


> Topping is when you cut out the two new leaves out of the top of a shoot. This makes a One Cola Branch, DOUBLE.


We are proud to report that these plants are growing like crazy!! The one in the center is getting enormous and super bushy, as is the one on the left. Plus the baby is on its way too. All the plants look beautiful and healthy. Here are some more pics!


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## motif (Mar 30, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> We are proud to report that these plants are growing like crazy!! The one in the center is getting enormous and super bushy, as is the one on the left. Plus the baby is on its way too. All the plants look beautiful and healthy. Here are some more pics!


looking sekC, very healthy


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## Ray Fox (Mar 30, 2009)

Okay, seriously folks, our babies are getting huge. We're installing a scrog net sooner than we thought (In one of the pictures), probably tomorrow. Also, we did some topping (Thanks Motif ) Everyone please keep following our grow journal and add any advice you feel is helpful! And now New Pics!!! Enjoy!


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## motif (Mar 31, 2009)

looking good, nice white roots. i think im scrapping my scrog attempt...

What if you get a male and you gotta pull it out of the net and then it pollinates everything?


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## Ray Fox (Mar 31, 2009)

motif said:


> looking good, nice white roots. i think im scrapping my scrog attempt...
> 
> What if you get a male and you gotta pull it out of the net and then it pollinates everything?


Why scrap it? Did it already grow through too much? If not then just replace the net. This is the scrog we followed Master Kush scrog. 150w hps, 1 mini fridge, 1 seed. hydro - flowering PICS - Marijuana Growing . And you're right Motif, it would suck if we got a male... 'Cept we paid like 50 bucks for all fem White Ice seeds from Attitude seeds . We put way too much cash into this venture hahaha. 

Today we're gonna put up the SCROG net and later this weeks We'll put some pictures up of how its going. As of right now though, its going AMAZING. They've grown a ton even more than last night. What a magical plant.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 3, 2009)

We had some complications with getting the net up so we're trying something new. So sorry folks, no SCROG photos, here's more pictures of the girls though.


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## jordisgarden (Apr 4, 2009)

man hydro just seems like such a pain in the ass. big time props to you masters out there that seem to have wonderful success doing it. but i dont have enough time to be dealing with all that. but your grow is nice, best of luck. im now growing white ice also, and im a little stressed by what that dude said about never wanting to grow it again. i only bought 5 seeds of it though so oh well. so with scrog you just pack a bunch of plants in there and wind em through the screen so the branches get even light?


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## Ray Fox (Apr 5, 2009)

jordisgarden said:


> so with scrog you just pack a bunch of plants in there and wind em through the screen so the branches get even light?


Jordisgarden, actually DWC isn't so hard to maintain. Cleaning the water out is a bit of a pain but otherwise its pretty straightforward and the plants grow MAD fast. We still haven't put up the SCROG net so we'll see what that should be like, but the idea is that you weave the plants through the net. They grow, you put them back under the net and they grow, etc. and the process repeats until the whole net is full, allowing the plant to grow horizontally and only the buds to grow upward. We're following one grow which got 3.5 oz dry from one plant in DWC so with 3 White Ice's we're expecting about the same results. 

Honestly, its about space and time. We're trying at a fast, super efficient grow (And we're first timers, its in a box for christ's sake) so we don't have quite the space you have Jordisgarden but if we did hahahaha can you say cannabis cup closet? 

Look for more pics tomorrow, the net should actually be going up then.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 6, 2009)

Week 4 is finally over and the babies are huge. Putting up the SCROG net was a huge bitch but ultimately we think its gonna pay off. We're training the plants for the SCROG still but you RIU guys can check out what we have so far. We're not calling it quite a micro scrog, its more of a midiscrog or, perhaps then a "grande" scrog. These girls were tough to train and the process is on going, not to mention the metal net left us with many bloody scratches and unfortunately a couple torn leaves. But the net looks pretty good now and everything seems fairly sturdy and stable. Check out the new pics and let us know what you think!!

- Ray Fox

P.S. We're looking to Veg another week after week 5 depending on how big the smallest plant (the one on the right) gets. And we're expecting to flower for 7 weeks but does anyone think like, 5 weeks flowering is possible in hydro?


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## KiloBit (Apr 7, 2009)

great first grow guys...keep it up......


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## smoote1987 (Apr 8, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Week 4 is finally over and the babies are huge. Putting up the SCROG net was a huge bitch but ultimately we think its gonna pay off. We're training the plants for the SCROG still but you RIU guys can check out what we have so far. We're not calling it quite a micro scrog, its more of a midiscrog or, perhaps then a "grande" scrog. These girls were tough to train and the process is on going, not to mention the metal net left us with many bloody scratches and unfortunately a couple torn leaves. But the net looks pretty good now and everything seems fairly sturdy and stable. Check out the new pics and let us know what you think!!
> 
> - Ray Fox
> 
> P.S. We're looking to Veg another week after week 5 depending on how big the smallest plant (the one on the right) gets. And we're expecting to flower for 7 weeks but does anyone think like, 5 weeks flowering is possible in hydro?


Hey Ray Fox. I'm here to comment as promised.

First off props for trying hydro for your first set up, you've got some chops there. Personally i started with soil because hydro was just to daunting of a task for my newbiness.

Ok i read through your entire journal and am glad to see you made it through all of your challenges with ease. I took some notes so here goes...

Back when you were having rez temp issues. Obviously you have resolved them because of the beautiful white roots i saw but i missed how you went about remedying the problem, how did you fix this? Are you using the frozen water bottles suggested? Totally weird that you had hotter temps at night, its usually 10 degrees cooler for most at night. Are you running your lights at night and not during the day? 

All those questions asked, your brown roots earlier on were definitely root rot from high rez temps, I had the same problem. I realized that it was because of the high room temps and the under powered ventilation i had initially. I got my ventilation fixed and room temps under control, the root rot went away immediately. 

That leads me to this, how are you ventilating your box? 

I think you mentioned at some point that there was going to be a fan but then as i kept reading i saw no more mentions, just statements about where you cut vent holes and what size the exhaust hole in the top of the box was. 

If you are using the frozen water bottles you have may more patience than i do, thats why i opted to just fix the ventilation to deal with the heat, couldn't be bothered with all those frozen water bottles. I tried it once when the temps were real bad (90+) but that was short lived, again not patients for that. I would recommend exhausting your box to by using a pc fan if you are currently not. They're very quiet, very efficient for small spaces, and I'm pretty sure your box will only need one here's a link to one that i use and picked up for a reasonable price locally:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2211703

That fan would easily vent your box and do it silently. you may want to look for a speed controller for it though as what i think is silent might not be for you. You could also just under power it by using say a 5 volt, 7 volt, or 9 volt cellphone charger. This will lower the rez temps by having cooler room temps and eliminate the need for the frozen bottles if that is what you're using.

On to your scrog, nice work. Again nice choice in screen it is what I'm using. Hear ya on the scratches. I filed off the barbs and rough edges of mine with sand paper so no more scratches for me. 

Still wondering about the holes? Hopefully you'll fill me in.

Your screen looks a bit low to me but i dont know your plant so continue to feel it out as you have been, you've got good instincts from what i can tell.

I saw that you asked how to change the rez water when the plants are bound to the screen and you can't move them. Well the answers simple... Attach the scrog to the bucket lid! 

OK ok so it isn't such a simple answer, you still have to figure out how to attach it to the bucket lid firmly, and don't get me wrong i didn't figure that out until my third grow and it was more of a flash of brilliance than any real well thought out design. Take a look at my grow room album in my profile if you need some ideas i have pictures of how i made my buckets/bucket lids with scrog attached. When you accomplish the arduous task of attaching screen to bucket you will be able to just pop the whole unit out as one (rez, lid, plants, and scrog). Then just remove lid, scrog, and plants and change the rez, couldn't be easier. I'm surprised you didn't follow that design from the link that you stated that you based your scrog off of. 

Well thats all i have for now. Thanks again for the love earlier i really appreciated it. Keep growing and if you have any questions about what i said just let me know.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 8, 2009)

Hey Smoote, thanks for getting back to us. So to answer some questions...



smoote1987 said:


> Back when you were having rez temp issues. Obviously you have resolved them because of the beautiful white roots i saw but i missed how you went about remedying the problem, how did you fix this?


We got a tip to spray the roots with a mixture of water and hydrogen peroxide or to add just add a little hydrogen peroxide to the roots. Cleared everything up almost instantly.



smoote1987 said:


> Are you using the frozen water bottles suggested?


Yup, two frozen water bottles go into the water every morning and are changed for new frozen ones every night when they melt.



smoote1987 said:


> Totally weird that you had hotter temps at night, its usually 10 degrees cooler for most at night. Are you running your lights at night and not during the day?


You know, we think it gets humid or something in the box and causing the temp to go up. You actually can't see it in the picture, but we have an open panel on the side of the box which we keep partially covered in a towel and use a fan to blow air into the uncovered part. 



smoote1987 said:


> That leads me to this, how are you ventilating your box?


You get the picture. And actually that thing on top is just a roll of tape, not a ventilation tube. Funny though, there is another opening we made on the side of the box (Not seen).



smoote1987 said:


> Your screen looks a bit low to me but i dont know your plant so continue to feel it out as you have been, you've got good instincts from what i can tell.


Our screen is about 12" above the lid. And thanks for the appreciation back Smoote! 



smoote1987 said:


> OK ok so it isn't such a simple answer, you still have to figure out how to attach it to the bucket lid firmly, and don't get me wrong i didn't figure that out until my third grow and it was more of a flash of brilliance than any real well thought out design.


We're trying to work out some kind of ingenious way to make that work by just using household resources... we'll let you know when that happens. 



smoote1987 said:


> Well thats all i have for now. Thanks again for the love earlier i really appreciated it. Keep growing and if you have any questions about what i said just let me know.


We'll keep checking on your grow. Thanks so much for taking the time to look at ours. Be sure to look for new pictures every week. And next week we're entering flowering which excites us far more than it should.

- Ray Fox


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## smoote1987 (Apr 9, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> We're trying to work out some kind of ingenious way to make that work by just using household resources... we'll let you know when that happens.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome, i love switching my plants to flower you get that tingly first day of summer feeling. At least i do.

Hmmm i would guess that it does get pretty hot in there. You did give the ranges of 75-85 degrees. So its not like you have particularly bad temps which is good. So you really don't have to worry about lowering your temps unless you want to stop doing the frozen bottle thing. 

If you ever do want to stop with the bottles i would definitely look into some better ventilation along the lines of what i posted before because i doubt you're getting too much air movement with your current fan set up.

GL

Edit: forgot to give you this link for a scrog idea:

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/11916-scrog-design-suggestion-2.html 

You could either do exactly what's there or make something similar but much shorter that sits on top of the bucket lid. This is the best i could find in regards to being able to make it out of household materials. Id say you could untwist a wire hanger and make legs out of it. That wire screen you have is very sturdy and rather malleable so it should be easy to attach wire hanger pieces to it. You would probably still have to adhere it to the lid itself because as the plants grow they could probably lift the screen if its not all that heavy, you'll have to judge that when you've made it.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 9, 2009)

Hey guys, so today we have officially Vegged for 4 weeks and 4 days 24/7 under dual spectrum II lights. Due to their already massive size, we decided to switch the babies to 12/12... Where we expect them to grow even bigger. So we have officially started the FLOWERING STAGE. Wish us luck, and in the meantime here's some more pics of the SCROG from today.

- Ray Fox


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## MostlyCrazy (Apr 9, 2009)

Crazy thought but for what it's worth you might want to move the lights up for a couple of days and have them stretch a little. You want as much above the screen as possible. You can always control the height by running them back through the screen. Just my opinion. Nothing more.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 16, 2009)

Hey guys sorry for the lack of pics this week but right now we figured since they've only been in 12/12 for a week and one day we would just let them keep growing, keep strapping them down to the screen. We'll post pictures as soon as these babies go into flowering so you guys can catch up on the action. 





MostlyCrazy said:


> Crazy thought but for what it's worth you might want to move the lights up for a couple of days and have them stretch a little. You want as much above the screen as possible. You can always control the height by running them back through the screen. Just my opinion. Nothing more.


Hey MostlyCrazy, you actually can't really tell but we did raise the lights a bit since before the scrog. Since they've been in 12/12 they're bound to start flowering any day now and grow three times as much anyways. But the light tricks been working so far. 

P.S. What should we do about too much growth in a single opening? There's no room to strap it down or tuck it under!!!!


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## MostlyCrazy (Apr 16, 2009)

Not sure I understand. No more holes in the screen in that area? Might try tying them to a hole far, far away with bread ties or string. Sort of a bondage thing! LOL. 

You think they are going to grow 3x in 12/12? Mine don't do that but they seem to be pure indica. I get about 1.5x grow height max. I grew the last batch to 14" and it maxed out at 32". Is that what your strain is supposed to do? I know Sativa can take off.


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## waterCooled (Apr 18, 2009)

lookin good ray fox. looking forward to the updated pics, any flowers yet?


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## Ray Fox (Apr 19, 2009)

waterCooled said:


> lookin good ray fox. looking forward to the updated pics, any flowers yet?




Hey guys, we were away from the grow for a couple days and it sorta got huge. Stems and branches and leaves all over the place. We're still fixing it all possibly going to start supercropping and do more topping, fimming, the works. After that we're probably not gonna tuck any thing anywhere or need to strap any more branches down because here's the good news: Pistils are beginning to grow. Preflowering is here. CAN'T WAIT. 

. Yeah, that's right little buddy. Soon.

And for all of you who've been watching and helping us out and giving us your grow brownie points (pun intended) you will be happy to know that there are more pictures coming in the following days. Look for Em. 

- Ray Fox


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## Ray Fox (Apr 20, 2009)

watercooled said:


> lookin good ray fox. looking forward to the updated pics, any flowers yet?


Look for some in the following days. And thanks so much for checkin out our grow watercooled, we've been following your grow for inspiration. Ours unfortunately doesn't look nearly as perfect. But we're trying for the same results. 3 White Ice.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 21, 2009)

Hey guys, as promised here are the new pics. There aren't any close ups of the flowering because actually there isn't much to photograph... yet. However, since entering flowering there are tops all over the place, so many we can't count em even. You can see the main colas sticking out and then we tied them down again. Can't wait till these babies flower and the buds start growing!!! Let us know what you think!


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## motif (Apr 23, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Hey guys, as promised here are the new pics. There aren't any close ups of the flowering because actually there isn't much to photograph... yet. However, since entering flowering there are tops all over the place, so many we can't count em even. You can see the main colas sticking out and then we tied them down again. Can't wait till these babies flower and the buds start growing!!! Let us know what you think!


damn that looks so fucked up haha

i hope it turns out well though mane

i got 2 females outta those ones i had under cfls under my desk, now under my new 600watt hps hortilux bulb with sun system reflector. HUGE improvement. two very different looking strains, we'll see how they turn out


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## Ray Fox (Apr 23, 2009)

motif said:


> damn that looks so fucked up haha
> 
> i hope it turns out well though mane


Damn dude you think they look alright? We're training them to stay down so the buds have plenty of room to grow (They still have a good 2 x 3 x 2.5 ft so we're not worried ) First timer mistake with the net though, we added it way too late and this is what we get for it. A good SCROG is fuckin hard man. 

Oh well. The plants look good though, nice and healthy with big strong stems. We're two weeks and one day in 12/12 but aside from the crazy number of tops and a few tiny signs of sex there really aren't many signs of flowering. This next question may sound horribly amatuerish to seasoned growers but... when do the buds start!?!? Hahaha.




motif said:


> i got 2 females outta those ones i had under cfls under my desk, now under my new 600watt hps hortilux bulb with sun system reflector. HUGE improvement. two very different looking strains, we'll see how they turn out


Indica? Sativa? Show us some pics Motif! Here's a pic of our babies after we got back, before retraining them.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 27, 2009)

HELP!!! We're approaching 3 weeks into flowering on wednesday and still not a sign of flowering. Nothing. Just lots of tops everywhere. IS THIS NORMAL??? What could the problem be? They've been on 12/12 for 3 weeks now and we haven't seen any changes except continuous growth. Is this because of possible light contamination??? Need help!!!


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## motif (Apr 27, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> HELP!!! We're approaching 3 weeks into flowering on wednesday and still not a sign of flowering. Nothing. Just lots of tops everywhere. IS THIS NORMAL??? What could the problem be? They've been on 12/12 for 3 weeks now and we haven't seen any changes except continuous growth. Is this because of possible light contamination??? Need help!!!


your fine, if you dont veg your plants for 5 full weeks, it will take longer for the plant to flower. Your fine. What you shoulod be noticing right now is white hairs coming out of alot of the axillary buds (leaves branching off of leaves). Bud formAtion should begin forming around week 5 i would guess.... 

i started my first day flowering on these two girls on 4-15-09, and one is significantly more mature than the other and it is showing a lott of white hairs, while the other less mature one is barely showing its white hairs. They are both 2 days shy of 2 weeks. dunno if that helps you at all, but thats where im at with mine right now


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## motif (Apr 27, 2009)

oh and the growth you noticed is normal, that always happens after you switch to 12/12. aka stretching. the plant pretty much doubles in size when you switch to 12/12.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 27, 2009)

Right Motif, but the problem is there isn't a single white hair. Not one. Lots of tops. And the sex of the girls is very clear, but not one pistil is coming out. 

Oh and two of the three plants were vegged for 4 weeks and 4 days and the third was vegged for 3 weeks. So do we need to flower for a longer time now?

oh and look for some pics tonight. They're ENORMOUS. Plus long story short, the scrog half failed.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 27, 2009)

Here they are guys, pics of the girls. Yet still no pistils. Does anyone know whats up???

- Ray Fox


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## Ray Fox (Apr 28, 2009)

So apparently it takes 15-30 days for the babies to start flowering in soil, is this the same for DWC? 

Wow. We honestly don't know what we'd do without RIU.


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## jigfresh (Apr 29, 2009)

Hey ray fox... I'm just joining the party, so forgive me if I missed anything. I read everything, just don't know if I remember it all.

About the flowers, mine started showing after 11-12 days of 12/12.

My guess is a possible light leak to make them think it's veg time? But that's a guess, I'm on my first grow so I'm no expert.

I know you can't stand in your grow space and close the door like I can to check, so maybe try to get a camera with a timer in there and set it, close the door and see if you see some light.

One thing that is good, all the plants look happy.

keep us posted.

EDIT: I was just thinking about it, and you would have to have a pretty good light leak to make that happen. It's really confusing. At least they are healthy, buds should arrive someday?


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## Ray Fox (Apr 29, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> EDIT: I was just thinking about it, and you would have to have a pretty good light leak to make that happen. It's really confusing. At least they are healthy, buds should arrive someday?



Hahaha at least! Thanks so much for checking up Jigfresh. There are some tiny light leaks but that should be okay, right? A small airvent, a slit in the side for the air from the fan, another tiny one for the outlets. But that's it. We sure hope they start soon.  So Anxious!


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## jigfresh (Apr 29, 2009)

I don't know if it's the number of leaks as much as the light that could be coming through. I don't remember when you are running the lights, day or night? But I would think you would need either a house light bulb that shines directly through one of the holes, but even then it shouldn't get the whole place light enough to mess things up. If you are running the lights at night and during the day the sun can get directly at those holes I think that could be doing it, but you would need the sun to shine in the window directly on it (i would imagine). Weird man. But I'm here for the ride. Also, the more they veg the more they should produce.


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## Ray Fox (Apr 29, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> I don't know if it's the number of leaks as much as the light that could be coming through. I don't remember when you are running the lights, day or night?...Weird man.


Actually we have them off during the day and on at night. And also the box is turned so the door is facing the window. We should probably turn the thing just to make sure one of the walls of the box is totally blocking out any extra light. Easygrinder says its the early flowering time and the lack of veg time. We're gonna go with that most likely but regardless it looks like its gonna take longer to finish. Our guess: about a month, making it exactly 7 weeks flowering. Any bets on how long?


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## jigfresh (Apr 29, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Any bets on how long?


Are you guessing they will finish a month from now??? I don't think so.

I think my plants have a month left and they have been showing flowers for 35 days.

I don't know how much you read of my journal, but I have been trying to figure out when harvest will be, and it keeps changing. First the 'flowering time' of a plant (ie 9 weeks for my Hindu Skunk) is the amount to harvest from sign of the first flowers. I thought it started at 12/12. Second I thought that with my setup of using a big dwc with tons of bubbles and 650w in a 2x3 space would make sure I finished early. It may finish early, but right now I am at the beginning of week 6 flowering and I'm positive they have more than two weeks till finish, so if they do finish early it will only be few days.

I'm not trying to say you won't finish early, just that finishing early isn't as easy as it may sound.

Either way, you definitely have more than a month to go. Damn things take to long if you ask me, haha.

Also, I'd agree with easygrinders assesment as well. Might want to turn the thing so the door doesn't face the window for good measure anyways.


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## thor369 (May 1, 2009)

well, my fastest strain to be flowered, and done,. was about 6 weeks from 12/12, i had some take 11 weeks from 1st flower, total of 13 weeks. it is all in strain/genetics you are working with. 

all i can recommend, is when you think it is really done, pick a lower bud, slow dry it for 3 days, in closet, and try it, and ask yourself, is it really done, i bet it isnt. 1 week can almost double the length the stone lasts, trust me. by doing it this way, to choose a harvest date you gain 3 days from testing the cut piece, and then, if you choose not yet, wait 7 more days, try again, this will be 10 days from 1st cutting your last taste. repete if needed 1 more time. you want some of the THC to change into the other helper canabinoids, CBN/CBT i think they are. you have to mature the crystal a bit, waiting 1 week to 10 days more really can be a big differance. 

you will see it when it matures, your buds will swell up, the calixs will go into like a false seed mode, and the calexs will get 3x to 5x bigger all at once, the buds will look like they took a big breath, and swelled up. and about 50% to 75% of the hairs will have changed color, or shriveled up into its calex.


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## Ray Fox (May 1, 2009)

thor369 said:


> well, my fastest strain to be flowered, and done,. was about 6 weeks from 12/12, i had some take 11 weeks from 1st flower, total of 13 weeks. it is all in strain/genetics you are working with.
> 
> all i can recommend, is when you think it is really done, pick a lower bud, slow dry it for 3 days, in closet, and try it, and ask yourself, is it really done, i bet it isnt. 1 week can almost double the length the stone lasts, trust me. by doing it this way, to choose a harvest date you gain 3 days from testing the cut piece, and then, if you choose not yet, wait 7 more days, try again, this will be 10 days from 1st cutting your last taste. repete if needed 1 more time. you want some of the THC to change into the other helper canabinoids, CBN/CBT i think they are. you have to mature the crystal a bit, waiting 1 week to 10 days more really can be a big differance.
> 
> you will see it when it matures, your buds will swell up, the calixs will go into like a false seed mode, and the calexs will get 3x to 5x bigger all at once, the buds will look like they took a big breath, and swelled up. and about 50% to 75% of the hairs will have changed color, or shriveled up into its calex.


Hey Thor, thanks so much for the info man, so glad to have you along for the ride. Unfortunately we're not in your state and we're under a little time constraint so we're hoping the babies will finish up soon. Thanks to guys like you, Motif, Easygrinder and Jig all lending a hand we've gotten an incomparable amount of tips and advice. 

We still gotta pluck all the leaves, maybe add some more lights. We've been adding Stealth Hydro bloom nutes with every watering and are still pinning down any long shoots and stems to the net. Long way to go yet but we're hoping these babies can finish in about 6 weeks... don't really have a choice. Time constraint scrog!!! Let's see if its a mission impossible? 

Look for more pics in the coming days.


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## cream8 (May 2, 2009)

hey looking brother!!


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## smoote1987 (May 2, 2009)

Hey Ray,

Came across this and i just thought you'd enjoy it. 

Scrog Design Suggestion


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## Ray Fox (May 2, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> Hey Ray,
> 
> Came across this and i just thought you'd enjoy it.
> 
> Scrog Design Suggestion


Wow haha that's so weird. Wonder how big the whole thing was... Anyways guys here are some more pics as of today.


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## smoote1987 (May 2, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Wow haha that's so weird. Wonder how big the whole thing was... Anyways guys here are some more pics as of today.


You can kind of get a sense of scale from the size of the CFL, but i was mainly showing you an example of how someone attached the scrog to their plants container. 

Your plants look great btw.


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## Ray Fox (May 3, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> You can kind of get a sense of scale from the size of the CFL, but i was mainly showing you an example of how someone attached the scrog to their plants container.
> 
> Your plants look great btw.


Thanks for the good karma Smoote!  Took another look at the scrog you sent too, unfortunately we can't attach the net into the soil cause we're doing a DWC... but definitely likin' the use of the tubing. Maybe for the next grow if we're not doing a vertical scrog. 

On wednesday our babies enter the first month of flowering and still no signs of pistils. Any thoughts when they'll show?


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## smoote1987 (May 3, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Thanks for the good karma Smoote!  Took another look at the scrog you sent too, unfortunately we can't attach the net into the soil cause we're doing a DWC... but definitely likin' the use of the tubing. Maybe for the next grow if we're not doing a vertical scrog.
> 
> On wednesday our babies enter the first month of flowering and still no signs of pistils. Any thoughts when they'll show?


No problem.

I was was thinking more of four holes in the lid of the hydro tub that the four legs, or PVC piping of the scrog could slide into. The legs/piping would be long enough to reach the bottom of the inside on the tub and allow for proper spacing of the screen height above the top of the tub's lid. The scrog would then be attached and removable with the bucket, also since it is essentially attached only to the lid you would still be able to lift the lid and scrog off very easily and change the reservoir.

However I'd love to start a vertical scrog revolution. 

Do you mean "entering the first month" as in they're just starting or they are finishing out they're first month and are entering their second month? I just got confused .


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## Ray Fox (May 3, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> No problem.
> 
> I was was thinking more of four holes in the lid of the hydro tub that the four legs, or PVC piping of the scrog could slide into...



That's so brilliant man. 




smoote1987 said:


> Do you mean "entering the first month" as in they're just starting or they are finishing out they're first month and are entering their second month? I just got confused .


Hahaha no prob. Nah dude, the first 4 weeks of the plants being in 12/12 is over on Wednesday. So then that means they are finishing they're first month in 12/12... Hopefully we'll see some signs of flowering soon. If you check back in the posts because we only vegged two of the three plants for 4 weeks and 4 days and the third for 3 weeks, Easygrinder believes that the insufficient lack of veg time means late flowering signs. But we just can't wait to see the fruits (...er, buds, rather) of our spoils begin to show! Can't do anything but watch the weeds grow...


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## smoote1987 (May 3, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> That's so brilliant man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool, hmmm thats a long time, i hate the wait as well.


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## Ray Fox (May 4, 2009)

More pics, but still no pistils...


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## jigfresh (May 4, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> More pics, but still no pistils...


Dude, it doesn't make any sense. I know this is a stupid question but are you positively sure you set the timer for 12 on 12 off? I have no other ideas.

They still look nice and healthy though.


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## Ray Fox (May 4, 2009)

Oh and sorry again for the shitty pics you guys, camera phones are only so good. But we promise better quality pics when they start flowering!... if that ever happens. And if you can't read the picture above it says "signs of fem sex but still no pistils". Actually they are large stipules and but tiny calyx formations(you can't see them, and we barely can even looking at em)... so we think. Hope some actions happens soon ... So anxious for its painful!


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## Ray Fox (May 4, 2009)

Jigfresh said:


> Dude, it doesn't make any sense. I know this is a stupid question but are you positively sure you set the timer for 12 on 12 off? I have no other ideas.
> 
> They still look nice and healthy though.


Hahaha no prob Jig. And yes we're sure. The timer turns the lights on at 12 Midnight which remain on until 12 in the morning. We're still riding on Easygrinder's theory that the low veg time has made them take longer flowering but theoretically wouldn't that mean that they would have already started flowering by now? All that's really left to do is wait...


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## easygrinder (May 5, 2009)

you should see some hairs in the next week or two, shouldn't be too much longer now


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## Ray Fox (May 7, 2009)

Thought it would never happen but here they are, 31 days into it, the pistils are here!!! WOOHOO!!! Not to mention the early definitions of many colas. Finally!!! WE ARE SO THANKFUL FOR THIS ALREADY!!!

And thanks so much to you guys!

Pics Below! Enjoy.

P.S. We're gonna use a better camera now and a magnifying glass for trichs and such. Here's where the REAL fun begins. 

-Ray Fox


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## anhedonia (May 7, 2009)

Thats really od about your flowering time. I grow soil organic and I see pistils by day 10.


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## Ray Fox (May 10, 2009)

Hey everyone so the babies have started developing flowering tops and corners in most of the stems. We still have lots of room for flowering but the problem is that there's just no more room to tie down the stems and if we raised the net then the lower branches that are already tied down would snap off. So... we kinda have to continue as is. But no problem!


The hairs are very noticeable and there isn't any obvious aroma just yet, except when you get close to the tops and smell them there is a light, sweet odor, with an almost citrus like tang coming off at the end. Its very nice . 

Also we took some random pictures with a camera for the first time (The macro focus is kinda gay on the camera but the pics came out alright... we'll get more practice). This means avatar upgrade! Check em out!!


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## MostlyCrazy (May 10, 2009)

Not much room in there, huh! Mine don't start to smell from far away until about 5-6 weeks into flower. Since you have the screen where it is, how about taking one of those big plastic coated paper clips, undo it so you have a hook on each end and move those tops around to get as much light on as much of the top over the screen as possible. Just hook one end below the bud you want to move and attach it to the screen below. I use them for "bud manangement" to keep as many smiling faces (buds) pointed at the light as possible. Don;t have a screen so I attach them to each other.


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## Ray Fox (May 11, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> Not much room in there, huh! Mine don't start to smell from far away until about 5-6 weeks into flower. Since you have the screen where it is, how about taking one of those big plastic coated paper clips, undo it so you have a hook on each end and move those tops around to get as much light on as much of the top over the screen as possible. Just hook one end below the bud you want to move and attach it to the screen below. I use them for "bud manangement" to keep as many smiling faces (buds) pointed at the light as possible. Don;t have a screen so I attach them to each other.


S'pose you can't really tell in the pics but we actually tie them down with twine.


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## Ray Fox (May 11, 2009)

Oh and there's still about 2x2x2.5 feet of space left for the girls to grow... the only thing is we probably gotta cut some holes in the top soon for the lights. Wonder how big the buds are gonna grow in a couple weeks... There are literally buds ALLOVERTHEPLACE


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## anhedonia (May 11, 2009)

whats with the "our" "us" and "We" shit? Do you have a twin sticking out of you or a fetus or something? Did I miss something in your journal?


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## motif (May 11, 2009)

anhedonia said:


> whats with the "our" "us" and "We" shit? Do you have a twin sticking out of you or a fetus or something? Did I miss something in your journal?


 that would be an accurate assumption, bright one  

Lol just messin with ya mane..

yo ray, im jealous how healthy they look! 

Now im no scrog grower, but im pretty sure that when you grow with a scrog, your supposed to clip OFF all the little weak branches that are under the screen that get no light. That was all the energy is focused up higher towards the buds above the screen which are getting the light.

I would look into that, im not 100% sure but i do remember reading that in another scrog journal somewhere. Try reading up on it.

thats just 2 plants right??


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## MostlyCrazy (May 11, 2009)

Hey Ray! I see why you changed your avatar! When that one popped up it almost startled me. Ok it startled me! Can I use that as the reason that I didn't catch the tie down! LOL! Nice healthy plants. The rest of the grow is all about light management.


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## Ray Fox (May 11, 2009)

anhedonia = said:


> whats with the "our" "us" and "We" shit? Do you have a twin sticking out of you or a fetus or something? Did I miss something in your journal?


Well Anhedonia, since you are so insist on again asking  in your usual less than friendly way, let's just take a moment and THINK shall we? Perhaps Ray Fox is more than one person monitoring this grow and referring to the growers as a collective "we" or "us". Maybe its one person monitoring the grow on RIU, but the grow itself involves multiple people being referred to in the plurality out of respect. If you know your history, Ray Fox is one of the 43 aliases used by Howard Marks. And Ray Fox remains an alias, just like anhedonia. However, it lacks the same sick meaning as the word anhedonia itself. So here's your singular as used by a possible collective: I don't understand why anyone would name themselves after a psychological term for the inability to experience normal pleasure from pleasureable things in life and expect people to like them. Please feel free not to comment on this thread again. 

- Ray Fox


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## Ray Fox (May 11, 2009)

Motif said:


> yo ray, im jealous how healthy they look!
> 
> Now im no scrog grower, but im pretty sure that when you grow with a scrog, your supposed to clip OFF all the little weak branches that are under the screen that get no light. That was all the energy is focused up higher towards the buds above the screen which are getting the light.
> 
> ...


Hey Motif, glad you're back man. And yeah Easygrinder decided to mentor our grow and yup, we took off all the leaves below the net (explains how all those scroggers got their grows so clean...) and shut out any opening that could let in light so thing are going swimmingly. These babies are growing so much every day!

Crazy, glad to see you too! Sorry for the mix up haha.. Here's a heads up for another avatar change in a couple of weeks for when the buds get really big. Thanks for the love you guys!! 

Plus here's a pic of the tying method and a growing bud being kneaded in my fingers.


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## Ray Fox (May 12, 2009)

Hey guys, we're thinking about adding maybe two or more CFL's... More light never hurts. We already have the dual spectrum II lights we've been running from Stealth Hydro but it looks like the bigger they are the more we might need. Plus the girls are drinking up the water like crazy! They run out every 4 or 5 days!


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## MostlyCrazy (May 12, 2009)

Make sure they are 2700k CFL's. I use the 105W 2700 as side light ( I know over kill but left over from previous grows). More light is always good. I wouldn't let them "run out" I add about a gallon daily to mine in the 4th week of flower. Allows me to give them fresh nutes. You can let it get half empty but I that point it needs to be filled. I do a res changed weekly.


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## Ray Fox (May 13, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> Make sure they are 2700k CFL's. I use the 105W 2700 as side light ( I know over kill but left over from previous grows). More light is always good. I wouldn't let them "run out" I add about a gallon daily to mine in the 4th week of flower. Allows me to give them fresh nutes. You can let it get half empty but I that point it needs to be filled. I do a res changed weekly.


Wait, so you mean you add fresh nutes every watering? You're running a DWC set up right?


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## MostlyCrazy (May 13, 2009)

Running Stealth Hydro Bubbleponics system. Anytime it needs water (usually daily at this point in flower) it's ph'd and nuted up.


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## jigfresh (May 13, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> Running Stealth Hydro Bubbleponics system. Anytime it needs water (usually daily at this point in flower) it's ph'd and nuted up.


Yo ray... I'm the same man. As mostly crazy that is.... My rez is about 28 gallons full.... I have never once let it get lower than 24 gallons. My plants drink about a gallon a day (total), so every other day (about) I add 2 gallons. I usually don't need to pH it becuase my rez is so big (it doesn't fluctuate much). Depending on how lazy I am I add the appropriate amount of nutes to the 2 gal top off. And I completely change the water every 7-8 days. (lots of nutes I use)

With your smaller rez, I would add the appropriate ammount of nutes each time as the ppm would plummet without.

What you might want to do, if it makes sense for you is make enough nute mix for a week at a time, then just top off from that. Do you see what I'm saying?

I'd do it with my setup, but I'd need to keep an extra 10-12 gallons somewhere and that is a lot of space.

I hope this makes sense. Let us know if you have any other questions.

One thing is for sure... I suggest you never let the rez get below halfway. I don't know if it makes a difference or not, but I wouldn't do it.


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## MostlyCrazy (May 13, 2009)

Same thing here. I have about 6-7 gallon of ph'd and nuted water sitting on the side in a 10 gallon bucket for adding as needed. I think it would be ok to let it get down about 2 gallons ( out of a 8 gallon res) but that is as far as I want to go down. Also when I do a res change I let them sit for about 15-20 minutes drained and let them have their air bath then. My water is 7.5 out fo the tap so Ph adjustment is needed.


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## Ray Fox (May 13, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> Same thing here. I have about 6-7 gallon of ph'd and nuted water sitting on the side in a 10 gallon bucket for adding as needed. I think it would be ok to let it get down about 2 gallons ( out of a 8 gallon res) but that is as far as I want to go down. Also when I do a res change I let them sit for about 15-20 minutes drained and let them have their air bath then. My water is 7.5 out fo the tap so Ph adjustment is needed.



Yeah, we've been giving them nutes every couple waterings or so but with the sudden level in drinkage we've been a little unsure of whether or not to keep giving them nutes with every watering (lik every 3 or 4 days) or not. So we will jump to this change immediately. Thanks guys, will do!


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## jigfresh (May 13, 2009)

Make us proud foxy... we're looking for some super killer plants. We know you can do it (especially with us all here with you).


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## Ray Fox (May 13, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> Make us proud foxy... we're looking for some super killer plants. We know you can do it (especially with us all here with you).


Hahahahahaha aw Jig you're so cute. First time grower or no, with your guys' help we promise to make you proud. Scout's honor.

Mmmm...Feelin the inspirational RIU love already.


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## Ray Fox (May 13, 2009)

Oh! And great news! We've decided to clone 3 plants off of the big mama (the center plant) once they enter a little later in flowering. Just a little early excitement but expect a new thread for a possible perpetual grow!!!


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## MostlyCrazy (May 13, 2009)

I wouldn't clone a plant in flower ( ok maybe a week or 10 days). Perpetual grow come on the next round! LOL! Didn't find this thread until the middle of my second grow and it made about a 5 oz difference (first grow was pitiful! - Killed 5 out of 6 plants!). You're just getting some experience and we're here to help as needed. Power to the Pot people!


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## Ray Fox (May 14, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> I wouldn't clone a plant in flower ( ok maybe a week or 10 days). Perpetual grow come on the next round! LOL! Didn't find this thread until the middle of my second grow and it made about a 5 oz difference (first grow was pitiful! - Killed 5 out of 6 plants!). You're just getting some experience and we're here to help as needed. Power to the Pot people!


Power to the Pot People! The thing Crazy is that our flowers were WAYYYY late. If you looked earlier in the thread, they took 31 days in 12/12 to appear (no, no light leaks...) so now that they're def in flower we've been reading up on some people's cloning grows and it looks like we're gonna take about 3 snips off the momma start of next week. It IS possible right? We're not crazy here right? Pardon the joke Crazy.


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## jigfresh (May 14, 2009)

It definitely is possible... I'm pretty sure you can re veg at any point before the plant is dying (up to week 7 or 8 for indica)... it will just take a few days to start new growth out of the flower (see smoote's grow journal).

I can't tell you if you're crazy or not... I'd need more information, haha.


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## MostlyCrazy (May 14, 2009)

Jig is right. You can try to clone but will have to be patient as they need to switch back to the veg state to push out the roots. How are ou going to clone? I have a Daisy Cloner ( about $60 online) and it works well. I've also used one of those propagating trays you find at wally world. Soaked some rock wool with 5.5ph water, loaded the clone with Olivia's cloning gel and misted 2x a day with plain water and a little Super Thrive with good success. Make sure the rockwool is just barely wet to the touch. If is gets too wet you'll get stem rot. We want that clone to push out the roots to look for water! You might wants to cut a few more than you think you may need. I'd expect a success rate of around 50% figuring in the noob factor! LOL! 

Crazy is as crazy does! I'm not easily offended . . . ever. I smoke way too much pot for that to happen!


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## Ray Fox (May 14, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> Crazy is as crazy does! I'm not easily offended . . . ever. I smoke way too much pot for that to happen!


Hahaha, well it looks like we'll have to start a new thread for this sometime next week. In the mean time let's stick with not screwing the main grow up


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## beennoobed (May 14, 2009)

nice grow, lookin forward to the end


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## MostlyCrazy (May 14, 2009)

You are learning, Grasshooper!


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## motif (May 16, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Yeah, we've been giving them nutes every couple waterings or so but with the sudden level in drinkage we've been a little unsure of whether or not to keep giving them nutes with every watering (lik every 3 or 4 days) or not. So we will jump to this change immediately. Thanks guys, will do!


DONT DO THIS.

Topping off your res with nutes can create nutrient lock-out. 

You can do this however, halfway through your flowering, i would top off with just ph'd water because the helps "unlock" the salt build-up. So flush your plants for like 3 days halfway through flower, then continue to top off with nutes till your final flush before harvest.

If you choose to do this, and you see any kind of abnormal deficiencies appear, i would put my 5 on it that its due to nute-lock. In which case, just flush with ph'd water for 2-3 days, then continue with the nutes.

I actually like to flush my plants every now and then and let the water run down to about a 1/4 of the bucket. Its actually very beneficial to let your roots air out once a week.


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## Ray Fox (May 18, 2009)

Hey everybody so we moved the girls today after they got found a couple days ago and were gonna get chopped down. Moving them was an absolute bitch, but it had to be done or thats all the blood, sweat, tears and cash going down the drain . 'Nuff said. Anyways they're safely tucked away now.

We added a full res of totally clean cold water and even added 3 extra 60 watt CFL's. So now we're really in business. And there are buds literally EVERYWHERE. Must be like, no joke, a hundred spread out. Plus there are like 10 big cola's popping up from the centers of each plant. CANNOT WAIT!!! 

Here's the girls.


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## MostlyCrazy (May 18, 2009)

Kick save! Way to rescue the girls! You ain't seen nothin yet. Another couple of weeks and it will look like you wandered into a popcorn factory! They look real good!


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## Ray Fox (May 21, 2009)

So the lights fell on the girls and burned some of the branches in the back a little . So pissed off . Luckily the damage was minor and we tied up the lights with a shoe lace to the top of the box. Hopefully no more amateur slip ups like this will happen. Also we had to tie the branches down again because they keep getting too close to the lights and burning themselves. Bad girls! 

On the plus side, the trichromes are beginning to develop in a nice white coating at the top of the buds, the girls keep getting hairier and the anxiousness of seeing them get nice and fat is unbearable!...  never thought that sentence would be said... We're running out of box for the girls to grow!!! 

P.S. Look for pics soon of some early trichs.


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## jigfresh (May 21, 2009)

Damn it jim... you know putting the light actually on the plant wont make it grow any faster... jk. Are you sure a shoe lace is a good solution. I would hate for it to happen again.

Glad your trichs are coming on... can't wait to see pics.


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## Ray Fox (May 22, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> Damn it jim... you know putting the light actually on the plant wont make it grow any faster... jk. Are you sure a shoe lace is a good solution.



... By sure do you mean not-really-positive-this-will-work? Then yes sir, we're sure as sunshine. But seriously, there's no reason the thing shouldn't work. Its an oddly shaped light contraption with three prongs for each bulb and we tied it tight around the middle to balance it all. Trust me it wasn't our intention to make it fall in the first place ,but this is the LAST time we're using tape in a mildly humid place to suspend an object.


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## jigfresh (May 22, 2009)

Dude... seriously... I'm having a vision of the future. It is a post by you saying we have stopped using a shoelace and started using the string our sunday paper came wrapped in.

Tape, shoelace? You love your plants I can tell... don't you think you can show a little love to the light? A chain or something sturdy might be a good idea though... and cheap, like $2 at home depot.

I trust you if you say you are sure-as-sunshine. You are there and I am not... so I will take your word for it. 

Not trying to bust your butt, I only want the best for you bro.


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## MostlyCrazy (May 22, 2009)

Yeah, I usually learn from bad experinces. Usually! Note to self - Water and adhesives don't like each other!


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## MostlyCrazy (May 22, 2009)

Jig, I hear the faint whisper of been there done that! Congratulations on your 1000+ post!


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## Ray Fox (May 23, 2009)

Jigfresh said:


> Not trying to bust your butt, I only want the best for you bro. !


Haha, thanks for the tough love Jig. And to Crazy for the clarification.   Okay, so:

1. Your sunday paper comes in a string? Weird. Ours just comes in a rubber band. 

2. You're absolutely right about the shoelace. The thing is only that this was one of those We-didn't-have-much-else-at-the-time moments rather than choosing to do so voluntarily . For the future we do intend on tying it sturdily to the top of the box, chain is a bit heavy, so twine or rope (anything but sunday paper string!) will probably come into play to make this work better. 

3. Does anyone know a better method of having the girls not grow into the lights?... Know how retarded that comes off but seriously, we keep tying them to the sides but they always manage to grow directly into the light and burn themselves. (Smoote's vertical scrog idea would have been brilliant here). Does anyone know how watercooled got his plants to grow around his bulb? We're probably just gonna stick to lots of training but its like a forest in there, you can barely get at the wire mesh to do anything.


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## motif (May 23, 2009)

man its pretty much too late for that now.. You shoulda prepared them better for your height restriction. Try moving them? Take off the lid of the box and hang the lights down in it? Otherwise your just gonna have to keep tying and breaking it to avoid burning em

edit*
^^^ Those would be the simplest ways, if you got technical you could build some kind of glass lens around the bulbs, but that lowers lumens and more importantly is prolly way to difficult to do.

Just some shitty ideas fr ya haha


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## MostlyCrazy (May 23, 2009)

Had that little problem last grow. I used LST to keep them in line and you can still do it here. At Least I do and it works well. Trick is figuring out how much height restriction you need. I do it like this. Figure out how you where you are going to point the bud. Reach down to the second or third node below the bottom of the bud. Take your pointer finger and your thumb and hold the stem lke you would a pencil. Give the stem a little squeeze. What you are trying to do is just bruise the outside "covering" so it weakens a bit. Now let's say that squeeze was at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock. Now, put your fingers at 3 and 6 and squeeze again. Too little is better than too much. You may have to do it a couple of times with slightly increasing pressure. After each squeeze, try to bend the stem down. When it bends it should kind of fall over at about a 90 degree angle. This is actually good for the plant. It sends all kinds of repair/growth cells to the area and gam make your bud bigger by feeding on the excess. 

This is probably not the best explanation but I do it often with good results and like everyting, you will improve with practice. I call it the Vulcan nerve pinch bu I'm MonstlyCrazy! Use the google and type LST or Low stress training and that should help. 

To hang my lights I screw a brass cupholder ( wall-mart or HD/Lowes) into the ceiling and run white plastic chain I picked up at HD/Lowes. Lite weight/ Plenty strong enough! Links are about about an inch long and hold my 250watt and 105cfls just fine ( unless I just jinxed myself). You can cut the chains to size with a kitchen scissors. The CFL's are in reflectors and they grab the chain fine. On the 250Watt, I use a large S hook (hardware item again) to connect the mounting brackets at the top of the light to a chain link. Adjustment is a breaze! Just count chain links.

Those Sunday paper strings are like kite string. Not strong enough for a grow expect maybe a little bondage work! Mine comes to me in a plastic bag these days (waterproof but wasteful) 

Hope it helps!


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## motif (May 23, 2009)

another reason chains and S hooks are better than strings, is because you can raise/lower them in 5 secs max. ! with strings, you gotta tie, un-tie, re-tie blah blah blah and its never as exact as you want it to be... Theyre just simpler man


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## Ray Fox (May 30, 2009)

Hi to all Ray's RIU friends and watchers, we just wanted to apologize for the late update. There have been many developments in our private lives which have kept us fairly distant from making any RIU contact. 

Also, apologies for the lack of pics. Sadly had to lend the camera to mom for her trip to Italy (don't worry, no plant pics left on the memory card) but this leaves us without the chance to show any recent changes in the girls spectacular growth. And there have been many! So here's an update (and yes, we have fixed the light problem, details below).


1. Many buds have stopped growing and started to get really fat and full. When taking a hand back from tending to the girls in the rear of the box, a lot of trichromes rub all over the arm and make you feel numb there. Its crazy. 

2. The clones have taken root, pics and thread to come. 


3. Some buds are still growing and we may have discovered a new technique: tiyng larger shoots down to each farthest corner of the screen, condenses their light use down to a single spot on the white walled box (Also being reflected back from three corners). That solves the space problem.

4. Odor Report: There is a very sweet, slightly citrusy smell coming off some of the buds. An almost sugary sweet sort of smell (try to say that ten time fast). 

Thanks guys, bear with us, only a couple more weeks now till we chop some girls down and do a nice smoke test. 

-Ray Fox


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## motif (May 30, 2009)

triches rubbing on your arm makes your arm numb? you growing heroin inside those plants?

...very eagerly awaiting an update!

what week flowering are you? im day 45, week 7 i guess that is? indica is looking about 2 weeks from chop, and the sativa has JUST begun sorta filling out its skinny as colas, prolly another 4-5 weeks for her at least. Im glad ill have some smoke to hold me over while my sativa finishes, im getting ANCY. fucking broke as shit and cant even afford to buy a bag, Lol


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## Ray Fox (Jun 6, 2009)

motif said:


> triches rubbing on your arm makes your arm numb? you growing heroin inside those plants?
> 
> ...very eagerly awaiting an update!
> 
> what week flowering are you? im day 45, week 7 i guess that is? indica is looking about 2 weeks from chop, and the sativa has JUST begun sorta filling out its skinny as colas, prolly another 4-5 weeks for her at least. Im glad ill have some smoke to hold me over while my sativa finishes, im getting ANCY. fucking broke as shit and cant even afford to buy a bag, Lol


Word dude, and again, sorry for the lack of update. Mom's still got the cam. And no we're not growing heroine haha but the trich's rubbing on the arm actually cause you to go numb in that area ( try it yourself, take a leaf, wet it and rub it on your arm for a little while and you'll start to feel a warming sensation come over that part of your body).

Our plants are looking about 2 weeks from chop too ( At least most of the buds are) but we can't seem to tell for sure (SORRY! PICS COMING!!!). We tried one of the lower buds to see and as a sheer display of stupid anciness we didn't even bother to let it dry, just smoked it right after we cut if off... and it got us hiiiiiigh. That little taste tester didn't help calm the excitement of a now 3 something month labor. 

As of today, the girls are 31 days into flowering. We hope to get some pics to show you and help us figure out when they'll be done. 

- Ray Fox


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## motif (Jun 7, 2009)

hey ray check out my journal bro in my sig, got my 2nd grow journal up....finally Lol


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## jigfresh (Jun 7, 2009)

Hey man... maybe just buy a camera at Target or something take some pics... and take it back. No loss but some time, eh?


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## Ray Fox (Jun 7, 2009)

No need Jig, here are the pics! Whew! So Below you guys can see some long awaited developments. There is a bit of what appears to be a potassium deficiency on some of the leaves which we remedied with the proper nutes.  The buds are getting so big that pretty soon we're gonna have to get them a training bra.

So here they are ladies and gents


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## MostlyCrazy (Jun 7, 2009)

They look so pretty! When those colas start filling out even more that training bra idea ain't half bad! Looks like the have make-up on! I'm ready for my close-up Mr. DeMille!

Just cut my LSD grow today and for the last 3 weeks I got all kinds of creative in trussing my girls up. I released their bonds before I cut and half the brached fell over from the weight! Yippee! 3 plants, 4 coke can sized colas, lots of mid size buds and enough air buds to cover the lid on a 25 gallon tote 2" deep! Plants maxed out at 34" with a 250 watt HPS and some 105W CFL side lights. Might be time for me to spring for the 400 watt HPS, drill the hole for ventilation and go for the gusto now that I am confindent of my skills. 

Your doing great Ray!


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## jigfresh (Jun 8, 2009)

Nice trichs man.


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## Ray Fox (Jun 8, 2009)

Thanks for the love guys!  Told ya we should wait for a better camera. 

So here's a couple of questions:

1. There are lots of little underdeveloped bud sites with hairs on the bottoms of the branches. Should we let these keep growing or just pick them off?

2. The question of questions: How much longer till harvest!?! God, we just wanna taste these girls already! Sorry, we're ancy, but a month of no signs of flowering in 12/12 and watching a month of actual flowering will do that to you. We're guesstimating about 2 weeks for the buds to fill out (45 days of flowering) until harvest for some of the already larger Colas. 

P.S. Hey Crazy can you please post some pics of your LSD? We'd really love to see the finished product of that beautiful strain.


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## jigfresh (Jun 8, 2009)

If you are saying you are 2 weeks from harvest... you are not accurate. I would say you are like 6 weeks from harvest or something based on the pictures. Not that they don't look good, but they look like a 10 year old girl... not a 35 year old lady.

5-6 weeks is my guess on harvest.

As for the bottom buds... I'm pondering the same exact thing with my clones. The bottom branches are just not developeing that great and I feel detracting from the tops.

I'm almost positive I'm going to pull some branches off, or some budsites.... but beware.... I beleive that pulling stuff off when in flowering makes the plants take longer. Just slows everything down for a bit. So keep that in mind when weighing your optinos. You would probably get a little better yeild/ quality moving the buds up on the plant, but you may be sacrificing a week or time.


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## MostlyCrazy (Jun 8, 2009)

No can do on the LSD picks. When I started this I had to promise the wife no pictures. I'm working on her and may have some for my next grow which is also the LSD/BC but from clones this time. Big hopes for Father's day! LSD had big coke can colas but the BC was pretty much a dud. I have the BC in the back where the best LSD was last time so we'll see if it's genetics or location. I will say this, the LSD can really take the nutes! Never a bad leaf and I'm what you would call aggressive with nutes. I try to flush for about 10 days because of that. Turning out the light the last 2 or three days seem to harden them up a little so I'll be repeating that. 

Don't know how long on that finish. I see trichs and see that it's mostly indica. The only way I know for sure is to get a radio shack pocket microscope and go by the color of the trichs. Mostly Clear= not ready, Mostly Cloudy = getting close - Mostly Cloudy and no more than 20-30% amber = cut it! Oh and on the lower buds, I wouldn't cut them. Cutting stresses the plant a little and that's not what you want now. Have them keep to the task at hand which is flowering. The air buds get dry quickly and you can use them to sample after the cut while the real buds are drying properly. Of course I've been know to cut and sample the last week or two myself. My advice is never cut while high. Seemed like a good idea at the time! LOL!


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## motif (Jun 8, 2009)

hey ray,

how many days has it been since you first saw the pistils?? That is your "true" flowering time. All looks pretty well tho, congrats!


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## Roseman (Jun 9, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Thanks for the love guys!  Told ya we should wait for a better camera.
> 
> So here's a couple of questions:
> 
> ...







WOW!!!!! *Beautiful!!!!*


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## Ray Fox (Jun 9, 2009)

Roseman! It's about time you made it here! Thanks so much for checking out the grow. 

The plants have been actually flowering for 34 days today exactly. 

Here's our plan from looking at Roseman's thread on Stealth Bubbleponics grows: 

Another 11 days of 12/12 then a 14 day flush in 15/9 followed by 3 days in total darkness. That sounds good we think.


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## motif (Jun 10, 2009)

14 day flush seems a bit extreme doesnt it? Why not just push the nutes up until the last 7 days when you flush? My Recipe for Success" from Technaflora suggests 3 days of just Sugardaddy and Magical, then only 4 days flush. I HARDLY gave my 1st harvest a flush, with only i think from full strength nutes to NOTHING (just ph'd water) and honestly, it wasnt bad smoke.... so if i can go from 1800ppm to 0 (or whatever my tap water ppm is) and flush for only about 3 maybe 4 days...it wasnt bad. I guess just lemme know how that turns out


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## jigfresh (Jun 10, 2009)

motif said:


> I HARDLY gave my 1st harvest a flush, with only i think from full strength nutes to NOTHING (just ph'd water) and honestly, it wasnt bad smoke....


Then there is the other end of the spectrum... inadvertantly I started my 'flush' very early. My plants have had 4 weeks and 2 days with a ppm below 200. The past 7 days they have had a ppm of 25... just water.

I'm not suggesting you do what I did... just putting it out there.


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## Ray Fox (Jun 10, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> Then there is the other end of the spectrum... inadvertantly I started my 'flush' very early. My plants have had 4 weeks and 2 days with a ppm below 200. The past 7 days they have had a ppm of 25... just water.
> 
> I'm not suggesting you do what I did... just putting it out there.


Haha Oh snap son! Growing technique-off! Well guys we're gonna try a mix of stuff. On Roseman's Stealth Hydroponics thread (Page 792 we believe) there are 4 videos from THC Seeds and the technique above came straight from that. They even suggested a 20 day flush. Whatever, there's More PICS!!!


Notes: 

Smell: not overly pungent but if smelling the buds directly there is a pleasantly sweet odor coming off the buds with the most crystals on them, almost like a cotton candy scent, with a citrus tang pinching the end. 

Touch: Frankly? You know that one pic of me holding the center of the bud in my fingers? I had to wash my hands of the resin, then when I wiped them off the towel got stuck to my fingers because they were still super sticky (icky) and I had to wash my hands a couple times more to get it out before I could take more pictures. What I'm holding in the photos is what used to be just a mass of bud but are now well developed colas and branches that have reached their max height and are now growing fat. They're like tiny Seuss looking Christmas trees! Beautiful.

Edit: And wow guys thanks so much for doubling our rep in just a couple days!


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## MostlyCrazy (Jun 10, 2009)

Get a feeling you ain't seen nothin yet. Things go fast at this point. I get a tingly feeling but try not to do it too much! lol!


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## Roseman (Jun 11, 2009)

Ray, AMAZING PICS. VERY BEAUTIFUL.


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## Ray Fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Roseman said:


> Ray, AMAZING PICS. VERY BEAUTIFUL.


Wow Roseman, thanks!  We were hoping the pics came out good cause we edited them when high hahaha . And sorry Crazy, we're just really overly excited dude. Didn't you read the title of the thread? FIRST GROW STEALTH BUBBLEPONICS. After buying bag bud of mixed qualities we're finally excited to be growing our own. We're hella ancy, but we're glad to be sharing our excitement (all shades and colors of it) with you guys. 

And Crazy its a damn shame that you can't show the RIU world pics of your surely beautiful LSD girls (a particularly interesting strain by the way). In fact, we've started using the term "coke-can colas" as a bud size to aspire to. Thanks for your feedback guys!


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## motif (Jun 11, 2009)

This is the fun part! ...and the hard part (waiting hahaha) but don't get ancy and start plucking buds early!


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## MostlyCrazy (Jun 11, 2009)

I feel your pain! LOL! Yes, I'm hoping for a camera for Father's day. That also comes with permission from the wife to show and tell. When you're married for 35 years you make compromises. Not one of my better ones but I'm playing the angles and I think it will work! LOL!

I put the buds in the jar this morning. Weighted out at 8.4 oz from 3 plants running a 250 watt HPS after a floro veg. Probably lose another 20% so somewhere around 7 oz fully cured. It's realy sticky wright now. I'm happy. Probably need to air out the jars a bit more but I'll see. Seems to be really trippy stuff at first taste. Kind of makes the world wobble! Happy pot too with a sit your ass down finish. Taste of musk and chesnut like they say on the strain description and to me has a lightly sour finish. Not harsh at all for it being so fresh. Can take a full toke no problem. The problem starts when you try to hang onto that hit! LOL! This is very early in the cure. I wonder what I'll get at the end.


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## Ray Fox (Jun 11, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> I'm happy. Probably need to air out the jars a bit more but I'll see. Seems to be really trippy stuff at first taste. Kind of makes the world wobble! Happy pot too with a sit your ass down finish. Taste of musk and chesnut like they say on the strain description and to me has a lightly sour finish. Not harsh at all for it being so fresh. Can take a full toke no problem. The problem starts when you try to hang onto that hit! LOL! This is very early in the cure. I wonder what I'll get at the end.



Dude, this is the best part about RIU: the strain and smoke descriptions. 

The fluid illustration of colors, the veritable feast of flavors and sensations and scents are what put the idea of cannabis as "drug use" to shame and turn it into Cannabis Culture. The defining factor is not to just smoke any old bag bud, but to savor the individual aspects and defining qualities of each strain. 

Thank you gentlemen.


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## MostlyCrazy (Jun 12, 2009)

I equate it to wine making. Street gear is Mogan David and I want an upgrade to Mad Dog 20/20. 20% THC that is! Now and again a nice port or possibly a jaunty little Merlot! Full and not pretentious with a smack your lips finish. LOL!


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## Ray Fox (Jun 14, 2009)

So... How long until harvest?


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## jigfresh (Jun 14, 2009)

Hey bro... I was looking at your pics and my wife was walking by... so I asked her. She gave a glance and her response: "A long time"

I agree. At least wait until there are _some_ amber pistils...

My guess is at least 2 more weeks from today. At least. They haven't even started swelling (in my opinion). They'll get nice and fat.


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## Roseman (Jun 15, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> So... How long until harvest?


They look like they need 2 or 3 more weeks. When did you start 12/12?

The Stigmas are not turning color yet.


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## motif (Jun 15, 2009)

Roseman said:


> They look like they need 2 or 3 more weeks. When did you start 12/12?
> 
> The Stigmas are not turning color yet.


^^im with stupid^^ 

haha, since you dont have a microscope from radioshack for $13, just watch the stigmas. It might mature faster on the lower parts of the plant and work its way to the top. Thats how mine is right now. Just waiting for my cola's stiggys to start turning.

Youll be surprised in the difference of how they look when they are really done, compared to how they look now. 

Check out my pic updates


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## Ray Fox (Jun 15, 2009)

motif said:


> ^^im with stupid^^
> 
> haha, since you dont have a microscope from radioshack for $13, just watch the stigmas. It might mature faster on the lower parts of the plant and work its way to the top. Thats how mine is right now. Just waiting for my cola's stiggys to start turning.
> 
> ...


The stigmas haven't started changing just yet we don't think. We're using a magnifying glass to look at trich's and the magnification right now is pretty good.


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## orzz (Jun 15, 2009)

Well Ray I read your thread and what I had was a view of your op in time lapse photography.

Watching your op progress and the ladies grew healthier and healthier. You have come along way. Gratz!!!

I have a couple weeks till harvest on a purple kush and my patience is being tested. I am using the Radio Shack $13 scope and it brings the trichs into beautiful focus.

+sub


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## Ray Fox (Jun 15, 2009)

orzz said:


> Well Ray I read your thread and what I had was a view of your op in time lapse photography.
> 
> Watching your op progress and the ladies grew healthier and healthier. You have come along way. Gratz!!!
> 
> ...


Thanks Orzz, and its great to have you aboard. We checked out your grow and it looks great. Really nice colas getting fuller and fuller. We hope to see the same within the following weeks. Our patience is thinning out but we're just gonna have to wait  ... Fuck.


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## motif (Jun 16, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Thanks Orzz, and its great to have you aboard. We checked out your grow and it looks great. Really nice colas getting fuller and fuller. We hope to see the same within the following weeks. Our patience is thinning out but we're just gonna have to wait  ... Fuck.



omg i know this is soo hard right now because there is like very minimal good budz in my town right now. people resorting to mids and shit...blehhhh

however, patience is a virtue


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## MostlyCrazy (Jun 16, 2009)

That's why I make hash oil out of my leaf/trim. Have it tucked away and only use occasionally. Don't need product these days. Done 5 grows the last year so I'm ahead of my intake! LOL! Hash oil on mids makes mids taste and work better! Use the Roseman blender method with isopropyl alcohol. 10 to 1 ratio of leaf/trim to finish product.


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## Ray Fox (Jun 16, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> That's why I make hash oil out of my leaf/trim. Have it tucked away and only use occasionally. Don't need product these days. Done 5 grows the last year so I'm ahead of my intake! LOL! Hash oil on mids makes mids taste and work better! Use the Roseman blender method with isopropyl alcohol. 10 to 1 ratio of leaf/trim to finish product.


We still make some oil with the extra leaves and what not but it doesn't ever really yield very much. Actually what we did was scrape the finished product into some saran wrap, and press it together into a shape (we did a rectangle). When the resin dries out a bit it turns into a nice little stick of hash.  We're making some more oil in a couple days so look for the thread.


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## MostlyCrazy (Jun 16, 2009)

Can't wait. I have trim and leaf from the last grow I want to do something with. I also have a set up to butane the stems to get every last drop of the good stuff. May get a kief box at some point. Anyone have any recommendations?


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## motif (Jun 17, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> That's why I make hash oil out of my leaf/trim. Have it tucked away and only use occasionally. Don't need product these days. Done 5 grows the last year so I'm ahead of my intake! LOL! Hash oil on mids makes mids taste and work better! Use the Roseman blender method with isopropyl alcohol. 10 to 1 ratio of leaf/trim to finish product.


you got a link to rosemans blender method??


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## Roseman (Jun 17, 2009)

Hash HASH Oil


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## Ray Fox (Jun 17, 2009)

Motif said:


> you got a link to rosemans blender method??


Haha no, but Roseman does. Roseman's always randomly there just when you need him hahaha.


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## Ray Fox (Jun 17, 2009)

Hey guys so here's another thing we just realized:

We're using the Dual Spectrum II lights from Stealth which delivers 8500 lumens + 3 regular 60 watt CFLs which deliver a combined 11,520 lumens = a grand total of 20,020 lumens in a tiny box. Wow, that's a shit ton of light for literally only a few feet of growing space!


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## Roseman (Jun 18, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Hey guys so here's another thing we just realized:
> 
> We're using the Dual Spectrum II lights from Stealth which delivers 8500 lumens + 3 regular 60 watt CFLs which deliver a combined 11,520 lumens = a grand total of 20,020 lumens in a tiny box. Wow, that's a shit ton of light for literally only a few feet of growing space!


 
TWICE what normal sunshine gives.


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## motif (Jun 19, 2009)

Roseman said:


> TWICE what normal sunshine gives.


shit son, i got *TOO MUCH LIGHT*. 

600w HPS for a given two square feet. its output is 90,000 lumens, aka 45,000 lumens per sq ft. i had some light bleaching happen on the two tallest branches of my sativa.

i think its a bit overkill


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## MostlyCrazy (Jun 19, 2009)

Probably not too much light but too much heat. How do you vent that? Wow, 90,000 in 2 square foot! You will get a higher electric bill but the buds will be rocks and covered with trichs like snow in an effort to protect. I'm growing with about 55,000 for a 9 sq ft grow area. May go bigger at some point but the last couple of grows have been above average but I don't do sativas. 4' max plant height in my area.


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## Ray Fox (Jun 20, 2009)

Hey guys, just thought you should know the plants look great. There's been a bit of rusting on the edges of the leaves, but aside from that the trichomes are growing immensely and we're sort of just sitting back and watching the girls get fat. 

Also, question to Roseman: We use nutes with almost each watering. There's going to be a week of flush followed by 3 days in darkness before harvest. But this only depends on the whether the size of the girls and the color of the trichs is right, obviously. 

Peculiarly enough, the last plant we germinated, with only a 3 week veg time, flowered at the same time as the others but is developing much slower. Its gonna need at least 3 weeks or so while the others will probably need less time, a full 2 weeks from now at most (We've been saying "two weeks till harvest" basically every week for a month. Ugh. What a plant. But watching it get fat shall be fun. 

P.S. More pics soon.


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## motif (Jun 21, 2009)

im getting so impatient, i literally almost just said fuck it and started the flush tonight, Lol


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## MostlyCrazy (Jun 22, 2009)

Just remember Motif, you waited this long now finish strong! LOL!


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## Roseman (Jun 22, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Hey guys, just thought you should know the plants look great. There's been a bit of rusting on the edges of the leaves, but aside from that the trichomes are growing immensely and we're sort of just sitting back and watching the girls get fat.
> 
> Also, question to Roseman:
> 
> ...


WHAT was the question?


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## motif (Jun 22, 2009)

i believe the rusting would be nute burn ray, did you increase your nutes?


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## Mr. (Jun 22, 2009)

I wonder if you grew all 6 plants in the thing if you would have a problem with the plants beeing to close at that size?


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## Ray Fox (Jun 23, 2009)

Mr. said:


> I wonder if you grew all 6 plants in the thing if you would have a problem with the plants beeing to close at that size?


Yes Mr., our 3 White Ice plants are already overgrowing the system. But this is only in a scrog, In some scrogs (godbless Watercooled), one plant can easily overgrow an entire system. No, even in a good SOG, a max of 4 plants is most likely all that will fit.



Motif said:


> i believe the rusting would be nute burn ray, did you increase your nutes?


No, we did not increase our nutes, in fact we lowered them. But there were some possible contributing factors. 

1). Temps are usually on the hot side at a 80 degrees farenheit. Today the thermometer read 82. So we cranked up the fan and let it rip. Which also leads us to factor two.

2). Humidity. Too much humid. Cranked up fan, left door open to let in fresh air. 

3). Nutes (So we suppose...) could be the cause of some of the burn. So we did a straight flush, with the fan blowing intensely on the reservoir and through the bottom of the net into the upper brush. 

Some pics coming soon. We tried to take some today but there was no battery to be found. We're gonna try to put up another batch asap.

Also, we took off a small bud off of one of the larger bud branches who's trichs are 20% amber , 40% milky and 20% clear. We should be looking to chop each of these at different times which sucks. But we'll weigh out each and give a final dry weight count to see how this adds up. 

And notes on the nug we cut:

As it dries its smell gets more potent. It is very sweet smelling, with a lemony tang. Hope its good!


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## Roseman (Jun 23, 2009)

Mr. said:


> I wonder if you grew all 6 plants in the thing if you would have a problem with the plants beeing to close at that size?


 
On their website it says:

*Keeping Size in Perspective*
This system was not designed to grow six 6-foot tall Christmas Trees. (Although we have grown 3 plants, 3, 4 and 5 feet tall in one tank.) We have heard a few growers tell us "I just realized that the 6 plants are going to get very crowded after they get 3 or 4 feet tall". This system was not designed for 6 giant plants. It is called a STARTER KIT OR STARTER SYSTEM. There is a reason that the tank is 21 and a half inches long. When this system was originally designed, many factors went into deciding what size tank and pumps to use. The main factors were economy, (LOW PRICE) simplicity, stealthness, and making sure the tank would fit into the end of a small closet, out of the way and out of sight. We've heard of a few growers that try to change to a much larger tank, and realize how much more work and trouble is involved in using a larger tank and moving larger quantities of water. Draining and replenishing the water can be a major task in a much larger tank. Not only are more larger and expensive air and water pumps needed for a larger tank, but larger pumps make more noise. Draining and cleaning a larger tank is a ton of work and trouble too. If you want to go with a bigger system, then connect two tanks together. And if you want to grow large plants, then start them in the Bubbleponics System, then transfer them into the Bucketeer Large Bucket DWC system. Or do like most growers do and just grow 2 or 3 large plants in one tank by selecting and keeping the more desirable three plants and disposing of the other three. 


Seven times, I started 6 seed in the kit, and everytime I got 3 females and 3 males, with 3 plants left in the tank, AFTER Vegging and starting 12/12. My largest plant so far was 42 inches tall, gave me 7 ounces of dried manicured buds. In the same tank, same grow, I had a runt give me 1-1/2 ounce and the middle average plant gave me 3 ounces.
Here are some pics:
    < 3 plants in 1 tank


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## jigfresh (Jun 23, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> trichs are 20% amber , 40% milky and 20% clear.


Ray... 40+20+20=80... what about the other 20%... did they dissappear. (sorry, i'm a math major... I had too).

Can't wait to see you pics. Want to see those girls man. You get to see them all the time... we just have to wait around dreaming, haha.

Hope things are going well with the solutions.


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## Ray Fox (Jun 23, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> Ray... 40+20+20=80... what about the other 20%... did they dissappear. (sorry, i'm a math major... I had too).
> 
> Can't wait to see you pics. Want to see those girls man. You get to see them all the time... we just have to wait around dreaming, haha.
> 
> Hope things are going well with the solutions.


Ah! Sorry Jig! (blame the Playwriting major) We meant 20% amber, 40% milky and 40% clear. We cut off a tiny part of the closest to finished bud so we'll give a full report of that soon. It smells better as it cures too. We opened the bag to smell it and bam! if we didn't know better, we'd say this stuff smells just like the reefer! 

And pics are coming! We promise!


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## Ray Fox (Jun 24, 2009)

So here they are! Enjoy the porn you guys since we're taking a trip tomorrow morning to Maine for the week. Have Fun!

New Avatar!


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## motif (Jun 25, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> So here they are! Enjoy the porn you guys since we're taking a trip tomorrow morning to Maine for the week. Have Fun!
> 
> New Avatar!


beautiful looking strain! it looks dusty by how smothered it is in resin


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## Roseman (Jun 25, 2009)

Hey, Ray,
bring us back some Lobsters.


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## crossouttheiis (Jun 25, 2009)

you should be able to assemble the same stealth kit for much cheaper. Just look around here, you could save yourself a lot of money doing it yourself.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 7, 2009)

Roseman said:


> Hey, Ray,
> bring us back some Lobsters.


Haha oh man, that's really all Maine is. Lobsters. 



Motif said:


> beautiful looking strain! it looks dusty by how smothered it is in resin


Actually the bud we cut is now totally dried and it looks like someone just sugar coated the whole thing. 


So we've started harvesting some of the buds. The one cutting we took was ready, at 20% clear, 40% cloudy and 40% amber. Another couple are coming down this week, and the least developed plant (which has more massive buds than any of the other plants) is coming down probably within the next two weeks. A lot of the buds are falling over from their own weight.

Sorry for the long awaited update you guys. But we're here on the last legs!

P.S. Look for more pics tonight from day 62 (yesterday).


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## jigfresh (Jul 7, 2009)

Nice work ray fox. I'm having trimming flashbacks seeing that branch on the paper... ahhhhh. I love all the colors the leaves were changing... makes it seem like fall.

Glad to see the buds looking so nice. Time to start looking forward yet??? What's next, haha.


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## Roseman (Jul 7, 2009)

YUMMY, YUMMY.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 7, 2009)

Here are the pics as of yesterday. Beauties!


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## motif (Jul 7, 2009)

ray all looks sekC! delicious looking strain! 

so you got two plants correct? are you still pushing the nutes and just chopping them based on the trichs (no flush?)?

check out my journal, chopped my indy last night


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## Ray Fox (Jul 9, 2009)

motif said:


> ray all looks sekC! delicious looking strain!
> 
> so you got two plants correct? are you still pushing the nutes and just chopping them based on the trichs (no flush?)?
> 
> check out my journal, chopped my indy last night


Thanks Motif! We actually have the three plants, and no, we're just finishing up a 2 week flush on the two ready plants and the third still has a little ways to go before chop. Its got fatter colas than the others . 

Some guy (not Someguy, he's fine ) on another one of our threads said that White Ice was a crappy strain but the colas on his plants were tiny. No wonder! Also the trich's are looking very nice. 

We did a taste test of the ready plant and boy is it something. We smoked one bowl and waited twenty minutes, thought we were gonna pack another when WHAM! we were like "oh my God, we're already so high!" So this is homegrown. Well you know what Rollitup community? the shit's wonderful. 

There's still a little ways to go however, hope you all will stay with us for it.


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## jigfresh (Jul 9, 2009)

Don't listen to the haters ray... your white ice would blow theirs out of the water. Stuff looks real tasty from the pics you put up. Stuff souds stellar too: 
WHITE ICE DESCRIPTION

Isn't it funny about packing a second bowl. When I was starting out smoking my harvest I would hit it, and think about it real hard, like what exactly was I feeling... only when I thoght I should pack another did I realize how absolutely smashed I was.

Props to you and your partner there ray fox. Really nice job.... and don't worry your fans aren't going anywhere.... we want to see the fairy tale ending to your first grow.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 9, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> Don't listen to the haters ray... your white ice would blow theirs out of the water. Stuff looks real tasty from the pics you put up. Stuff souds stellar too:
> WHITE ICE DESCRIPTION
> 
> Isn't it funny about packing a second bowl. When I was starting out smoking my harvest I would hit it, and think about it real hard, like what exactly was I feeling... only when I thoght I should pack another did I realize how absolutely smashed I was.
> ...


Thanks so much for the love Jig!  


When we picked our strain, all we had to go by was the description from Sensi Seeds (as posted by Jig above)

So now to compare the harvest to the description:

"A three-way hybrid of Northern Lights, Dutch Skunk and an original Afghani hash plant cultivar, White Ice is a super-thick, fast-flowering, Indica-dominant cannabis strain. "

So far sounds okay, but then again, what does "fast-flowering" mean.  Come on.

"This seed variety is named mainly for the awesome frosting of sticky silver resin glands that cover her solid buds; some growers working with the strain also refer to her as White I.C.E. - Indica Crystal Extreme."

Judging by other strains, we're not exactly sure about the description "Indica Crystal Extreme", but the girls sure do look very frosty. 

"When flowering, females could be mistaken for bonsai Christmas trees covered with sparkling decorative snow. "

Huh, this part is actually true.

"Yield is medium-to-high; the 'frozen solid' density of White Ice buds allows a good harvest even from smaller plants."

The yeild doesn't look to be the 300 we wanted (which is an estimate we can now look back on and laugh about), as first time growers, we're now just hoping for 100 grs, but as we've been told, we'll see. Actually there is something peculiar about the dried buds we harvested. They're completely rock solid, er should we say, "frozen solid". Basically as though they're stuck in shells of amber crystals. The cutting we took is also about 7 grs alone, so that sort of helps to guestimate the total dry weight.

"Her flavour is strong, sweet-pungent and oily, with heavy, expansive smoke. Her effect is stronger still, stoney and physical, yet not stupefying. As the name suggests, White Ice is the ideal smoke for chilling out!"

So far, this seems to be an alright description. The smell is really not pungent unless holding the bud directly under your nose, but it gets stronger every day from curing. There is a strong, "stoney" effect, but one would hope so. And lastly, all weed should be for chilling out!


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## Ray Fox (Jul 13, 2009)

So despite a 3 week flush we added some more bloom nutes to fatten the girls up some more. Look for pics most likely tonight. 

Also we got a brand new designer piece to accompany the newly harvested goodies. It's SICK!!


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## jigfresh (Jul 13, 2009)

If you mean that you have flushed for 3 weeks now... and you strated them again with bloom nutes... I think that isn't good.

Not sure but I remember reading that you shouldn't stop then start nutrients, you might want to check on that. I'm not sure why it was bad... maybe it can burn, or it might send them strange signals... don't know.

Just wanted to give you the heads up buddy.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 13, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> If you mean that you have flushed for 3 weeks now... and you strated them again with bloom nutes... I think that isn't good.
> 
> Not sure but I remember reading that you shouldn't stop then start nutrients, you might want to check on that. I'm not sure why it was bad... maybe it can burn, or it might send them strange signals... don't know.
> 
> Just wanted to give you the heads up buddy.



We were nervous about adding nutes like that too, but actually all the colas sprouted larger growths. We did another no nute watering today and we harvested most of our second plant. Pics soon! 

- Ray Fox


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## Ray Fox (Jul 13, 2009)

Here's the pics! The drying set up is a little ghetto yes, but its the only room with a ceiling fan. And check out the pic of the buds we harvested, they all come from one main giant branch. Delicious!


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## Roseman (Jul 14, 2009)

Hey, Ray,


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## Ray Fox (Jul 17, 2009)

Isn't Roseman just the best? 

So a couple updates, 1) after watering the plants with nutes post 3 week flush they appear to be really loving the extra boost so, after one no nute watering, we did a 6 gallon refill of micro nutes and half a packet of bloom nutes. So far the girls are getting larger since adding nutes, new growing technique?

2) Also, they're in 15/9 since about a week ago. 

3) And finally we chopped the whole first plant in the back. The wet weight was about 60 g's which dried down to about 24 grams total dry weight. Not bad for one plant on a first time, but we're looking forward to the other two larger plants a lot more since their colas have been significantly larger than those of the first plant's. 

3.5) One last thing, as the bud cures each day we're finding it to be more and more potent. Obviously. But it makes for a fun new surprise every day!


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## jigfresh (Jul 17, 2009)

Good work man.

So you changed the lights back to a veg schedule... is that to give them extra light to grow?

Looking forward to seeing the entire harvest... know you are too.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 17, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> Good work man.
> 
> So you changed the lights back to a veg schedule... is that to give them extra light to grow?
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the entire harvest... know you are too.


There's a video on Roseman's thread from Greenhouse Seeds that said to turn up the lighting to 15/9 for 2 weeks until chop. We're trying that technique. We'll try to find the page.


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## MostlyCrazy (Jul 17, 2009)

Do whatever Roseman says! Do Whatever Roseman say! No really, Do whatver Roseman's says! LOL! It's only funny cause it 's true.

Sound about right Ray on the yield of the smallest of three. For some reason I alway get a runt and ether two really nice ones of one medium and one extra large. Even happened with bagseed and different light set-ups. I'd think betwen 2 and 3 dry per plant for sure. Be sure to save the fan leaves and trim for other uses. I'm kind of fanatical about that. I even grind stems for the little bit of oil I can get using BHO.


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## o= High= o (Jul 17, 2009)

Hey guys please help me figure this out First clone from my first grow. shes under a 400 watt hps with a diy cool tube, in a 5gal dwc bubble bucket, 2 air stones, Dyna grow bloom 3-12-6 at 12/12 for 20 days i cant see any bugs. but she got these brown spots


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## jigfresh (Jul 17, 2009)

Looks like a deficiency to me. Not sure what, I don't know that stuff. The plant looks good by the way.

You will probably get more help by starting a new thread of your own about it. The 'plant problems' section would probably be best, but you could try the indoor growing section too. We pretty much know about Ray's grow around here. He's getting ready to harvest his super sweet scrog.

Try goggle:
site:rollitup.org deficiency

Good luck


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## o= High= o (Jul 17, 2009)

ok thankx, man


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## Roseman (Jul 18, 2009)

o=high=o,,,I got pics of that problem, but we do not want to hi-jack this thread.

Look here:Marijuana Plants Problems - Yellow Leaves, brown spots, nutrient shortage etc. it is over-nute, over fed.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 18, 2009)

Roseman said:


> o=high=o,,,I got pics of that problem, but we do not want to hi-jack this thread.
> 
> Look here:Marijuana Plants Problems - Yellow Leaves, brown spots, nutrient shortage etc. it is over-nute, over fed.


Although ohigho clearly highjacked this thread it is pretty flattering to a first time grower to ask for help. You guys all pounced on him like a cougar on a rabbit but still, its very flattering . 

Like Roseman said OhHighOh, it looks like you're giving your girl too much love. Just step back and let nature run its course for a bit. 

And not to forget... MOSTLY CRAZY is back in da house! Oh man, where you been crazy ? This must be quite the update for you. Just so you all know we're saving every scrap of plant for the for a final bubble hash process, hoping for a lot of stuff at the end. There will be pics of that at the end. 

Question: We chopped down the last plant to the bare stubs but the other two girls still need some time to grow. Can we let the stubs of the chopped plant to stay in the reservoir? Or should we take it out? Because the roots are totally tangled up in one another.


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## jigfresh (Jul 18, 2009)

I'd leave the roots... I think any decomposing issues would be far less than he shock the living plants would get having half of their roots torn in half.

I asked the guy at my hydro shop the same questions and he said what I said... only he said it first.

And if I'm not mistaken the frosty plant matter is the stuff good for bubble hash, the stems and other stuff you can make oil, or butter or something else.

oh... and if you aren't clear with people sometimes.. they start to think your thread is their thread very quickly.

Edit (added after the MC's comment below): Ray... do you plants see dead people?


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## MostlyCrazy (Jul 18, 2009)

Yep I'm back! You have been warned! LOL! Like Jig says leave them it for now. That stub will try to regrow a bit but that's ok. It's like the Sixth Sense. She doesn't know she's dead!


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## Ray Fox (Jul 18, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> Yep I'm back! You have been warned! LOL! Like Jig says leave them it for now. That stub will try to regrow a bit but that's ok. It's like the Sixth Sense. She doesn't know she's dead!



Great! Here's a link on youtube to the gumby hash method with Uncle Bobby http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnVbrAhNhW4. He uses schwag and extra trimmings for good hashish. We're using the frosty trim for oil (its to make strong hemp oil for a friend's mom with cancer). Uncle Bobby says not to use smoking quality and if you haven't smoked your frosty leaves then you don't know what you're missing. 




Jigfresh said:


> if you aren't clear with people sometimes.. they start to think your thread is their thread very quickly.
> 
> Edit (added after the MC's comment below): Ray... do you plants see dead people?


Thanks Jig. That's why you RIU guys are the best! Its like being a part of a really awesome team. 

And no Jig our plants might only be able to see dead plants, not people haha.


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## MostlyCrazy (Jul 18, 2009)

OH NO! I've smoked a leaf on occasion! I have trim from every grow I ever did as back-up just in case. Most of it is as good as the air buds at least. Thanks for the Uncle Bobby link. I haven't tried that method yet but it looks easy enough. Don't think I'll have that much product. Usually make baked good with the product lately but I'm always willing to try something different and them moving picture shows help a lot! LOL! Glad to hear you're making medicine for those in need. Keeps us on the right side of good!


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## Ray Fox (Jul 18, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> OH NO! I've smoked a leaf on occasion! I have trim from every grow I ever did as back-up just in case. Most of it is as good as the air buds at least. Thanks for the Uncle Bobby link. I haven't tried that method yet but it looks easy enough. Don't think I'll have that much product. Usually make baked good with the product lately but I'm always willing to try something different and them moving picture shows help a lot! LOL! Glad to hear you're making medicine for those in need. Keeps us on the right side of good!


The side of good is what this is for!!

Oh and the whole adding nutes post flush thing? We just checked on the plants today (sorry for the lack of pics, they're coming) but seriously, we may have stumbled upon a new growing method. All the colas that we thought stopped growing just grew an extra 10% and are still getting fatter. On one hand, thats fucking awesome. On the other AHHHH!!!! Its an endless grow!

We will show the RIU world at a later date but its seriously such a surprise that it worked.


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## CMLean (Jul 19, 2009)

lookign to do my 1sr grow using the stealth hyro set-up. A question that i have is often do i have to change to nute resv. water if ever?


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## Ray Fox (Jul 19, 2009)

CMLean said:


> lookign to do my 1sr grow using the stealth hyro set-up. A question that i have is often do i have to change to nute resv. water if ever?


Sorry but you're question doesn't seem to make sense. Are you asking how often to change the water? Because that is totally dependent upon how much water your plants are drinking at that particular time of growth and you have to guesstimate how much they need based upon how much they've already drank (drunk?). 

Or are you asking about how often to add nutrients? There are nutrients that come with the Stealth bubbleponics system (if you order one of the kits on their website) as well as an instruction from Roseman on how to use them. Roseman has a thread on Roll It Up that is all about the Stealth system, you'd do better asking on there or making you're own thread about it.

wink:Jig)


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## Roseman (Jul 20, 2009)

CMLean said:


> lookign to do my 1sr grow using the stealth hyro set-up. A question that i have is often do i have to change to nute resv. water if ever?


 
When a human new baby is still in the womb, it does not get fed food.

When a new baby is born, when ti comes out, it is born HUNGRY and ready to eat, but you do not feed it a Full Meal Deal from McDonalds! The new baby can not handle digesting a T-Bone Steak. You first feed it a very small amount and gradually increase it in small increments. 

Same theory applies to new baby pot plants.

When a seed is sprouted in the cup, you will first see two round leaves.......then in a rapid growing Stealth Hydro Bubbleponics System, within a day or two days, you will see two normal regular leaves. Those first two leaves are called the FIRST NODE. Now it is ready to be fed 1/4 strenght nutes. AFTER and WHEN you see the next node, the next new two leaves, you add 1/4 strenght nutes again. When you see the 3rd and 4th leaf, add another 1/4 strenght nutes.
The next day, add the other 1/4 strenght and now you are at FULL STRENGHT nutes and have 6 to 8 full new baby leaves.
This gradual feeding process is a very cautious way of starting the nutes to prevent Nute Burn, or over feeding. 
Want to see a GROWTH SPURT?
*DRAIN AND REPLINISH*

First two grows I did, I syphoned the water out into a 5 gallon bucket with an Aquarium syphon hose. That was really a chore!

Then I learned to prop the lid open about three or 4 inches, STILL LEAVING THE LID ON THE TANK, BUT PROPPED UP ON ONE END and reach in and take the Irrigation Hub off of the pump, and with a 1/2 inch hose, use my fist as a coupling, sit my fist on the upward pump tube with the hose half way in my fist, on top of the pump, and let the pump.....pump the water out into a 5 gallon bucket. It works good for me.

You can also use a WET-VAC, or a small pump to drain it.

A drill pump (you attach it to an electric drill) is $10 at Lowes.

Let me add here, that Roots love the AIR BATH they
get during a *Drain and* *Replinish.* This is a very important step. The more often you can do it, the faster the plants will grow.


Remember what I am telling you here.

Pot plants sprout with two round leaves, called 
cotyledons . Do NOT count those as leaves, they are really the inside of the seed.
AFTER 4 full leaves appear, use 1/4 dose of nutes.

When you start a new grow, and AFTER the seeds have sprouted, and you ahve done one feeding, you do a Drain and Replinish at 10 to 14 days, then every 7 to 10 days.

AFTER the first week, the water is still fresh, and you may have only added 1/4 packet of nutes or 1/4 dose of nutes, to the tank at the end of the first week IF you saw two full leaves, besides those FIRST two round ones,

During the 2nd week, you probably added 1/4 DOSE OF NUTES 2 more times 3 or 4 days apart.

AFTER 14 days from germination, you do the first DRAIN AND REPLINISH. Then, again, every 7 to ten days you DRAIN AND REPLINISH. I do a complete DRAIN AND REPLINISH every Saturday afternoon.
BUT, every Wednesday, half way through the week, I drain the tank into a bucket, pH test the bucket and adjust it, and then, after ten minutes of having an empty tank AND LETTING THE ROOTS GET AN AIR BATH, I add it right back to the tank. That way I did not use ANY extra NUTES OR too many nutes, but I did give the roots an air bath. 
You will see a RAPID GROWTH SPURT the very next day.


IF you do not have a ppm meter...........
and you do a DRAIN and REPLINISH........Try to think in term of SIXTHS. You got 6 plants, and 6 gallons of water in the tank. AFTER ABOUT the first two weeks, you are going to come home from work one day and find the plants drank half a gallon of water, and need to add half a gallon of water back. Half a gallon is half a SIXTH, so add back half a sixth of a packet of nutes back and half gallon of pH adjusted water.

Later, AFTER about three or 4 weeks, you will check the plants and they will have drank one whole gallon of water in one day. ONE gallon is 1/6 of the tank's water, and if 1/6 of the water is gone, then 1/6 of the nutes are gone, so add back one gallon of pH adjusted water and 1/6 does of nutes.
AFTER 3 or 4 weeks, you will find they drank two gallons in one day. Then add two gallons of water, (1/3 of the tank's water) so also add 1/3 packet of nutes.

IF you got the drain plugs, (little black faucets for the tank) make sure you use some plumbers glue or they will leak. The problem with using the DRAIN PLUGS is most of us have to sit our tanks on the floor, making it very difficult to drain the tank that way.

I'm often asked do I drain it out 100%? NO, I don't, I always leave about 1 inch of water or half a gallon. I'm too lazy to get it all, and ti doesn't seem to matter.
I'm often ask do I clean the tank when I drain it?
No, I don't let it get dirty to start with. I do not use nutes that color the water or roots, until about the last few weeks, i do use some Liquid Karma. But I still do not let trash or any thing foreign into the tank to clean out. 


If you don't understand this, ask me. It is part of the work or tasks involved in growing.


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## Roseman (Jul 20, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Although ohigho clearly highjacked this thread it is pretty flattering to a first time grower to ask for help. You guys all pounced on him like a cougar on a rabbit but still, its very flattering .
> 
> Like Roseman said OhHighOh, it looks like you're giving your girl too much love. Just step back and let nature run its course for a bit.
> 
> ...


 Yes, you can leave it a week or two. It MIGHT even re-VEG.....I said MIGHT.


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## o= High= o (Jul 20, 2009)

Roseman said:


> o=high=o,,,I got pics of that problem, but we do not want to hi-jack this thread.
> 
> Look here:Marijuana Plants Problems - Yellow Leaves, brown spots, nutrient shortage etc. it is over-nute, over fed.


Thankx for the link Roseman


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## jigfresh (Jul 20, 2009)

Roeman... you are like a 'knowlege bomber' flying in your giant pot growing B-52 dropping bits of information on the poor would-be cultivators below.

I have to say I'm glad to be in your flight path.


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## Roseman (Jul 20, 2009)

We're all on this POTGROWING Space Ship together and we ALL need to help and watch out for each other.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 20, 2009)

Roseman said:


> We're all on this POTGROWING Space Ship together and we ALL need to help and watch out for each other.


Wow. Total Tangent Hijacking because of Roseman's awesome.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 21, 2009)

So the bud is now cured in its jar and let us tell you honestly, holy fuckles. [I just smoked half a j outside and don't think i can smoke anymore. What the hell. There wasn't even that much in there.] We will make sure to keep you all up to date with info. Expect some photos tomorrow at some point. Looking to chop the second plant.


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## MostlyCrazy (Jul 21, 2009)

And now you know what properly grown and cured bud is like! Beats the crap out of the stuff we get commercially! Blaze on!


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## jigfresh (Jul 21, 2009)

Ray... I totally know the feeling... It's almost too good. I have just strated smoking on my 4 th plant I harvested and it is better than the stuff before. It's just amazing how good homegrown can be. I'm real happy for you and your partner. Good work.

Pics are always good too.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 22, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> Ray... I totally know the feeling... It's almost too good. I have just strated smoking on my 4 th plant I harvested and it is better than the stuff before. It's just amazing how good homegrown can be. I'm real happy for you and your partner. Good work.
> 
> Pics are always good too.


Hey guys so sorry for the lack of pics, the camera we usually use is MIA. We harvested our second plant and ended up taking pics with a phone so the quality is pretty crappy. Here are pics before trim and after.


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## jigfresh (Jul 22, 2009)

That's good enough man.... you got a ton of pot there.

WOOOO HOOOO


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## Ray Fox (Jul 29, 2009)

Ugh finally more pics. Here's the last plant. Its still getting bigger with seemingly no end to its growth, what the fuck? Seriously, look at the pics of each cola there's a new growth sprouting up out of the tops. There's also a weird explosive growth in one of the smaller colas, almost as if one of the preflowers grew too large and burst open with pistils. Also, the trich development seems particularly slow. Any ways to explain this? 

Also, are there any thoughts on when this might be ready for chop?...Probably never at this rate. Its just gonna keep growing till it collapses on itself. Sorry again for the late pics everybody, ENJOY!


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## MostlyCrazy (Jul 29, 2009)

I'd say you have a indica/sativa cross exibiting the sativa side of mature flower time. The leaves say Indica but the height and length of time needed is all Sativa. Plants have phenoms just like humans have traits like hair color and mature height. In this case two small blond ones got together and passed a Brunette big one! LOL! Does it smell different than the others?


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## Ray Fox (Jul 29, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> I'd say you have a indica/sativa cross exibiting the sativa side of mature flower time. The leaves say Indica but the height and length of time needed is all Sativa. Plants have phenoms just like humans have traits like hair color and mature height. In this case two small blond ones got together and passed a Brunette big one! LOL! Does it smell different than the others?


So what you're saying crazy is that my plant got the recessive gene in an Indica/Sativa cross?


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## MostlyCrazy (Jul 29, 2009)

Yep, probably. Even the best strains have some variation. Ride out the storm, you've got this far! I know you will but thought the encouragement was warranted!


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## Roseman (Jul 30, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Ugh finally more pics. Here's the last plant. Its still getting bigger with seemingly no end to its growth, what the fuck? Seriously, look at the pics of each cola there's a new growth sprouting up out of the tops. There's also a weird explosive growth in one of the smaller colas, almost as if one of the preflowers grew too large and burst open with pistils. Also, the trich development seems particularly slow. Any ways to explain this?
> 
> Also, are there any thoughts on when this might be ready for chop?...Probably never at this rate. Its just gonna keep growing till it collapses on itself. Sorry again for the late pics everybody, ENJOY!


Ray, is that a Sativa?

Opps, I read the next post and now I see.
That lady could Flower until Christmas and get 8 feet tall, if you let it.

Ray, consider joining the BubbleHead Gang???


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## Ray Fox (Jul 30, 2009)

Roseman said:


> That lady could Flower until Christmas and get 8 feet tall, if you let it.


Hmm... So is there anyway to speed up the process? We flushed the reservoir with fresh water and now we're just watching the grass grow. 




Roseman said:


> Ray, consider joining the BubbleHead Gang???


How could we pass up such a glorious invitation? Of Course!


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## Roseman (Jul 30, 2009)

Gang, Ray is now an official BubbleHead!!!!


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## MostlyCrazy (Jul 30, 2009)

Yeah! Ray's a Member! Don't know a way to speed up genetics. If I did I'd be 6' 6" and handsome as hell! LOL!


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## Roseman (Jul 30, 2009)

ALL Indicas flower 7 and half to 9 weeks, ALL of them that I've ever heard of. 
Sativas vary more, from 12 to 22 weeks. You could start killing it, let it dry up, and the trichs would change color. I'd at least Flower it 12 weeks first tho. I'm just not that knowledgable about sativas.


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## Roseman (Jul 30, 2009)

If the water ain't got bubbles,
Then the grower sure has troubles!!


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## Frankie Tousteppe (Jul 30, 2009)

Not trying to jack the thread, but can someone give me a good link to advice and setup on a bubbleponic system?

Thank you.


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## jigfresh (Jul 30, 2009)

Directly above your post is the signature for Roseman... there is a link in it:

My DIY Bubbleponics DWC

I think we all do dwc on this thread, so you can also look at all of our grow journals in our signatures... but for the most part... Roseman is the man to ask. Check his thread.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 30, 2009)

Does anyone think adding another air stone would help the grow? Also, we took it down from 15/9 and set it back to 12/12 (this happened about 4 days ago). Any thoughts?


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## jigfresh (Jul 30, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Does anyone think adding another air stone would help the grow? Also, we took it down from 15/9 and set it back to 12/12 (this happened about 4 days ago). Any thoughts?


Ray.... I been here the whole time... just don't know what to say. In case you don't remember I had the sam 'problem'. I just dialed back light timing and give them water. I know, not much help.

I think the best if you really can't let it hand around is to maybe just starve the thing... and watch it.


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## MostlyCrazy (Jul 30, 2009)

Ray,

Still don't think you should mess with genetics unless you need the space but I guess you could do what I do about two weeks before I cut. Sado stuff for sure! LOL. I stick thumbtacks in every stem leading to a bud about 6" from the bud and keep them there, I twist the shit out of it by grabbing it about 1/3 down from the top with one hand and about 1/3 way up from the base (wear latex gloves - it's sticky in there) and just twist in opposite directions, I turn off the light mid light period for an hour or two, I move the lights "too" close and then "too" far away and anything your mind can conceive. The purpose it to make it think it's hurt and it might die. It responds by pumping all it has to repair the injured site and in the mean time also sends those same repair nutes/auxins to the buds and they get a bit bigger with a few more trichs (defense mechanism). You do it 2 weeks before the cut date so that the stress has no time to hermie the plant. Still wouldn't recommend unless you absolutely need the space to start the next grow.


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## motif (Jul 30, 2009)

ahhh ray got sativa monster too!!


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## Ray Fox (Jul 31, 2009)

motif said:


> ahhh ray got sativa monster too!!



Thanks guys, all great advice, especially you motif . But as of the last watering we're just letting it drink up what it has and see what happens. We might try the thumb tack thing or something. But this part sucks! Damn freak Sativa genetics!


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## Roseman (Jul 31, 2009)

Frankie Tousteppe said:


> Not trying to jack the thread, but can someone give me a good link to advice and setup on a bubbleponic system?
> 
> Thank you.


look at the pics on the linked thread and then start at page 900 on this thread:
My PICS


any BUBBLEHEAD can help you.


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## Roseman (Jul 31, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Does anyone think adding another air stone would help the grow? Also, we took it down from 15/9 and set it back to 12/12 (this happened about 4 days ago). Any thoughts?


When I went from one air stone to two airstones, my rate of growth changed a lot, I mean really really alot. Now I use two 12 inch long stones on one DUAL air pump.

and I did about 4 grows experimenting with gradually changing cycles, trying to be like nature and all my experiments with 18/6 instead of 24Light/7 darkness, and going from 24/7 to 12/12 by reducing the light by one or two hours a day, is all BS and a big giant waste of time. I do VEG 24/7 now, and in one day I go to 12/12, with not graudual changes, no increments.


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## Ray Fox (Jul 31, 2009)

Roseman said:


> When I went from one air stone to two airstones, my rate of growth changed a lot, I mean really really alot. Now I use two 12 inch long stones on one DUAL air pump.
> 
> and I did about 4 grows experimenting with gradually changing cycles, trying to be like nature and all my experiments with 18/6 instead of 24Light/7 darkness, and going from 24/7 to 12/12 by reducing the light by one or two hours a day, is all BS and a big giant waste of time. I do VEG 24/7 now, and in one day I go to 12/12, with not graudual changes, no increments.


So what you're saying Roseman is that light cycles are bullshit and air stones and a dual air pump are where its at? Yo?


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## MostlyCrazy (Jul 31, 2009)

Think he is saying when you make a decision about lights, just do it. We've all experimented with light placement and duration. Personally, when I think it's ready to flower (I go by alternating leaves) I wait for the next res change and throw in the bloom nutes, turn the light to 12/12 and wait till I see male/female and act accordingly.


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## Ray Fox (Aug 4, 2009)

More Pics. These seem to lack a general frostiness that the first plants had, but are at least three times as large. Should we trim some of the leaves a bit to encourage faster growth?


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## Roseman (Aug 4, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> More Pics. These seem to lack a general frostiness that the first plants had, but are at least three times as large.


the grow I do in COLD weather, with the central heat on, is very different form the summer grow I do with the central air on, especially in visable trichs.


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 4, 2009)

Probably a completely different high too! Still pretty trichy!


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## Ray Fox (Aug 4, 2009)

Okay so check this out: today we did a total overhaul of plant care. There was some old dirty water and rotten roots so we siphoned out the rotten water and filled it with fresh clean water, threw in some H202, and a bag of micro nutes and an eighth bag of bloom. 

Then break .

Then we trimmed a few of the dying fan leaves and made tiny cuts with a razor into each of the branches to get the plant growth moving. After, that we tied the largest bud (the one closest to the front of the box) to the top of the box so it gets more light and isn't laying on the grate under its own weight. Whew! Work, work, work. Buts its SO worth it.  We're hoping for some nice results in the next couple days.


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## Roseman (Aug 5, 2009)

THE BUBLEHEAD GANG!

Right click the BubbleHead Logo, save it to your computer, then upload it to your signature.

By adding this bubblehead Logo to your signature, and claiming membership to the BubbleHeads, you agree to be very helpful to newbies with DWC and Bubbleponics with patience and caring and make all other BubbleHeads proud to be a member of the gang. If you do not know the answer, go get someone else from the BubbleHead Gang to help. 

THE BubbleHeads get a 10% Discount at www.stealthhydro.com by using the word BUBBLEHEADS as a Discount Coupon. 
Send this invitation to anyone you like and know that they know DWC and Bubbleponics.

May the Bubble Force be with us all.
__________________


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## Ray Fox (Aug 11, 2009)

Hey everyone! So due to some slight molding on the back half (probably due to laying on the grate because of its own weight) we decided to cut down the largest bud. Wet weight: 22.3 g's. The other buds are doing fine, slow Sativa development aside, but look like they're gonna take at least a good couple weeks still.


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 11, 2009)

That's just sick Ray! A ravishing blond! Oh well, you'll have a chance to sample early. Boo hoo but good for you! LOL!


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## Roseman (Aug 12, 2009)

Man, I haven't seen any GOLD BUD in a long time!

Congratulations!


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## Ray Fox (Aug 12, 2009)

Roseman said:


> Man, I haven't seen any GOLD BUD in a long time!
> 
> Congratulations!


Hold the phone, are we missing something? What is a gold/blonde bud?

Do you guys mean the parts where the bud started to mold and turned yellow and purple? All the trichromes started to decay too and that makes it seem like lots of little molding trich's. Its weird but we read that (In Steal This Book by Abbie Hoffman no less.... oh the 60's, what a time right?) that smoking molded buds will make you trip. Who knows?


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## Roseman (Aug 12, 2009)

looked like blonde or gold buds to me. so are you tossing them, saving them, or what? 

smoking MOLD is not good for your lungs.


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 12, 2009)

I was only referred to the dead leaves that seem to give the girls a blond highlights. I'm a sucker for a girl with blonde highlights!


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## Ray Fox (Aug 12, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> I was only referred to the dead leaves that seem to give the girls a blond highlights. I'm a sucker for a girl with blonde highlights!


haha! Aren't we all. Well we trimmed most of the moldy parts off, but there's still a little left. We're just gonna leave it to dry and hope no other parts get contaminated.


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 12, 2009)

That "blond" part doesn't look like mold to me. It looks like a dead or dying leaf which would be natural. Does it smell like mold? You're closer than I am to it! LOL!


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## Ray Fox (Aug 13, 2009)

MostlyCrazy said:


> That "blond" part doesn't look like mold to me. It looks like a dead or dying leaf which would be natural. Does it smell like mold? You're closer than I am to it! LOL!


Sadly its mold. definitely. But we chopped most of it off and it looks okay. Plus now that we cut away the leaves there is a very nice shiny coat of crystals which shimmers when looked at under a light. And despite even being chopped early, the trich's seem mostly amber. Odd?


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 13, 2009)

They can sneak up on you every once in awhile! OK, A good moldy blond! At me age I can't be too picky!


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## Roseman (Aug 13, 2009)

Ray,

please tell me and others, with some detail, how that happened? What mistake or procedure can you share with us that caused the mold so we can all avoid it?


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## Ray Fox (Aug 13, 2009)

Roseman said:


> Ray,
> 
> please tell me and others, with some detail, how that happened? What mistake or procedure can you share with us that caused the mold so we can all avoid it?


Me? Give advice to ROSEMAN!? This is an honor. 

Well to be perfectly honest: We're not totally sure. None of the other buds have mold on them, but here's what we think happened: The bud got too big and rested on the screen. That probably caused a build up of moisture on the underside of the bud and caused it to rot a bit. That's what we think at least.


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## jigfresh (Aug 13, 2009)

Hey ray... I think that's probably what it was... maybe some of those leaves all resting on eachother on the screen, sweating and the water being trapped.

I guess that's what happens when you grow monster nugs that won't even stand up any more. Next time strings for monsters... like a puppet. A pot puppet.

I must say... as much as it might be wearing on your patience, it's nice that such a great ride (your grow and journal) gets to last a little longer.


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## Roseman (Aug 13, 2009)

jigfresh said:


> Hey ray... I think that's probably what it was... maybe some of those leaves all resting on eachother on the screen, sweating and the water being trapped.
> 
> I guess that's what happens when you grow monster nugs that won't even stand up any more. Next time strings for monsters... like a puppet. A pot puppet.
> 
> I must say... as much as it might be wearing on your patience, it's nice that such a great ride (your grow and journal) gets to last a little longer.


 
The Hydro shops now sell little winches, like a pulley, on a tension, that you fasten to the ceiling and tie it to the top cola, to pull it up straight so it doesn't fall over.


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## Ray Fox (Aug 13, 2009)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah pot puppet!!!! Hahahahaha


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 13, 2009)

Me, I'd just attach a cup hook to the ceiling or whereever and tie it to the ceiling like a hangman's noose. I think your right on the diagnosis of the problem. Crushed by it's own weight! Don't think that bud got much air movement while it was laying down on the job!


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## Ray Fox (Aug 14, 2009)

There's actually a picture of the bud tied to the top of the box but it was too late. We just used a thick piece of twine that seemed to work well.


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## Ray Fox (Aug 15, 2009)

So we tried some stuff out on the final girl to get it going... and we have no idea if it was right but it seemed like the right thing to do. We did 3 days of darkness, then cranked the light up to 15/9 and added two gallons of fresh water with a packet of micro nutes and a packet of bloom. We also stabbed the bottom branches again since that seemed to get the plant moving.


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 15, 2009)

Marquis de Gaja! This thing will finish some day!


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## Ray Fox (Aug 16, 2009)

Dear RIU, why did all three of our plants develop differently? They were raised in the same environment, given the same nutrients, same water, same pruning, the same love and care (and the occasional spill of blood from that fucking metal grate!). Why did they all form differently? 

Here is the pic of the first plant (from all the way in the corner of the box) the second (in the center) and the third (still growing).


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 16, 2009)

Dear Ray, The Ice plant is a four way split and three of the four splits are crosses themselves and your wonder why you get three different looking kids? LOL!

*Genetics of Ice :* Afghani, a very special Skunk, Northern Light, and Shiva

Signed ,

RIU

LOL!


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## Ray Fox (Aug 16, 2009)

Wow. That actually makes perfect sense. Huh, why thank you MC.


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 16, 2009)

I'm planning on maybe breeding and been studying up. I'm addicted to growing and all related things! This is actually a treatment center! Didn't you know?


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## Roseman (Aug 17, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Dear RIU, why did all three of our plants develop differently? They were raised in the same environment, given the same nutrients, same water, same pruning, the same love and care (and the occasional spill of blood from that fucking metal grate!). Why did they all form differently?
> 
> Here is the pic of the first plant (from all the way in the corner of the box) the second (in the center) and the third (still growing).


Same reason me and my X wife had three children, that all turned out different. That's just the way it is.


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## Ray Fox (Aug 18, 2009)

So today we finally chopped the last plant. Measured out about 170 g's wet. Unfortunately, due to the two rotting stumps and a recently deceased fan, the plants were just beginning to mold. They were about ready anyways, so we chopped em down. Pics coming soon!


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## Ray Fox (Aug 19, 2009)

Harvest Pics!!! 

Total Trimmed wet weight = about 75g's.


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## Roseman (Aug 19, 2009)

THE BUBLEHEAD GANG!

Right click the BubbleHead Logo, save it to your computer, then upload it to your signature.

By adding this bubblehead Logo to your signature, and claiming membership to the BubbleHeads, you agree to be very helpful to newbies with DWC and Bubbleponics with patience and caring and make all other BubbleHeads proud to be a member of the gang. If you do not know the answer, go get someone else from the BubbleHead Gang to help. 

THE BubbleHeads get a 10% Discount at www.stealthhydro.com by using the word BUBBLEHEADS as a Discount Coupon. 
Send this invitation to anyone you like and know that they know DWC and Bubbleponics.

May the Bubble Force be with us all.
__________________


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## jigfresh (Aug 19, 2009)

Nice work ray. Good show. Glad to see the last one finally come down. I know you'll enjoy all that smoke.

Take a break, refocus and we'll do this whole thing again. Only this time bigger and better.


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## Ray Fox (Aug 19, 2009)

Thanks Jig man, we're already setting up the next grow in search of even bigger budding prospects. Looking to do four different girls:

1). Chiesel (Cheese X Soma NYC Diesel)

2). Super Lemon Haze (Lemon Skunk X Super Silver Haze)

3). Gigabud (G13 hybrid?)

4). White Ice (Just to see what happens again...) 

Can't wait! We're also redoing the whole thing! Better nutes! More Airstones! More Light! More Fan! Stay with us for a new thread. Plus Coming soon! Dry Bud Report! Smoke report! Thank you, thank you, thank you RIU for your gifts of knowledge and your wisdom. Big thanks to all our best friends and biggest teachers: Roseman for his omnipresent growing expertise, to Mostly Crazy for his great techniques and his incomparable sense of humor, and a thanks to our pal Jigfresh for always being there to support us and give us his gift of know-how throughout the whole mess. Also we send a thank you to our buddies Motif, Smoote, Jordisgarden and Easygrinder (wherever those last two may now be). 

THANKS A BUNCH!  You'll be hearing from us soon.

- Ray Fox


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 19, 2009)

Just let us know where to go and we'll be there! Happy Smoking!


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## motif (Aug 23, 2009)

ray, all you need to huge fully mature colas, is, lollipop all branches and veg for 5 full weeks. Guaranteed at least 2 oz's per plant DRIED. . . if its a good strain, itll yeild way more. but if you got the basics down, and you just veg them 5 full weeks and lollipop the branches. . . guaranteed satisfactory results


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## Ray Fox (Aug 23, 2009)

Gotcha... Lollipop = topping/fimming right?


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## jigfresh (Aug 24, 2009)

Ray Fox said:


> Gotcha... Lollipop = topping/fimming right?


Not at all.

Lollipopping you strip the bottom of the plant naked, so it just looks like a gian pot lolli pop.... a little stick (stem) with a giant bud on top.

2 oz per dried plant needs a little qualification. I mean if you have 8 plants under a 100w HPS, no way are you getting 8 total ounces. It's a matter of light and number of plants.


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## Roseman (Aug 24, 2009)

We will have a BubbleHead Gang Meeting, here, on this site, Monday at 9:00 E.S.T. 
to discuss our Mission Statement and membership. 
Mostly Crazy has agreed to be our Chief Bubblehead, if he is acceptable to everyone and everyone agrees.
We will discuss all that then, Monday at 9:00 p.m EST.
Here: 
The BubbleHead Gang - Marijuana Growing
__________________


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## Ray Fox (Aug 24, 2009)

Oh! So lollipopping = plucking any extra leaves or small branches then and keeping the plant focused on a few big buds. Is that more or less it?

By the way, we're making some hash via the gumby hash method. So excited to taste some White Ice Hash!!! 

And to Roseman and fellow Bubbleheads, Ray Fox shall be there to offer any and all advice he may have to give.


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## MostlyCrazy (Aug 24, 2009)

It's done over Ray! Did hash do that to you?


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## Roseman (Aug 25, 2009)

Hey Brother BubbleHeads,, Mostly Crazy was nominated and elected as CHIEF Bubblehead at the meeting, sorry you missed it. You can read the meeting at the BubbleHead Gang thread.

I wanted to soak my seeds 12 hours, got too busy and soaked them 28 hours. One of them already cracked open when I put it in the rockwool last night.

What normally takes me 30 minutes, is taking me half a day, to take the pics, document it, upload the pics and add text describing the pics. But it is sure in detail, and will help the newbies a lot.
look here:
Roseman's Closet-Grow Tutorial - Marijuana Growing

will show germiantion tonight


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## kellykapoor (Sep 23, 2009)

subscribed


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## Roseman (Sep 23, 2009)

kellykapoor said:


> subscribed


I think this thread is slowing dying out. No one posted here in a month.



Roseman's DIY Bubbleponics-DWC Tutorial

Questions about Bubbleponic Growing Thread


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## Ray Fox (Sep 24, 2009)

Roseman said:


> I think this thread is slowing dying out. No one posted here in a month.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry for not being around so much you guys. We've just been so busy after the grow, enjoying our harvest that we haven't had a chance to get our next grow up. We'll see what happens pretty soon, we're still figuring out the new space. But we shall update when we find it! Peace  To Everyone.


-Ray Fox


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## MostlyCrazy (Sep 24, 2009)

Glad you stopped by Ray!


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## Ray Fox (Aug 3, 2010)

Hey everyone, if you've come this far then thanks for joining me on the ride through my very first grow. Hope some beginners are able to learn from this the same growing tricks I learned from all the great pros on this site. You guys know who you are. 

Finally, with all Rollitup's help and the guidance of this forum's experienced green thumb geniuses under my belt, I've got a brand new and even better grow under way. Check it out... 

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/347689-second-hydro-grow-closet.html


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## Juicy Fruit (Sep 24, 2010)

Loved the grow op you had goin there, + rep or sure m8 will deff help me out in the comming monthes for my litle experiment...


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