# Hamster vs bottled CO2



## homerdog (Feb 21, 2008)

Read some where back that someone was using a hamster or two (that liked to run on a wheel) to boost CO2 in a grow closet. How much CO2 would a hamster produce vs the levels of CO2 utilized with a regulated CO2 set up. Would need to find a hamster that liked to run during the day, or put him on a different light schedule to be more effective. Would it be necessary to channel a rodents' out put or just have it in the same room.


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## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2008)

lol, i would love to know the answer to this one.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 21, 2008)




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## Dubbuh (Feb 21, 2008)

haha fdd finds the funniest pictures........

yeah i wanna know the answer to this too...... hamsters are kinda cool...... reptiles produce c02 too right???rather have some iguanas or somthin....always wanted an iguana


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## human8 (Feb 21, 2008)

just when I was going to market me weightlifting toad© CO2 booster too.........


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## homerdog (Feb 23, 2008)

Was looking for a slightly more educated response from the moderators, knowing this is not an overly effective method. How much CO2 is produced through respiration of a small animal (actual amount, which I haven't been able to find elsewhere). People also use fermentation to boost in small room, I can't imagine that this is much more efficient. I have a back ground in science and would love to see the actual numbers. I may eventually have to commit to a regulated system to allow for slightly higher temps but am curious about the numbers produced by different methods.


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## past times (Feb 23, 2008)

i have some numbers that i crunched last week. there are 25.2 molesof co2 produced per 5lbs bag of sugar used in fermentation. that is 30.34x10^23 molecules per lbs. of sugar...that is ideal with all sugar converted

that being said, i have no idea how much co2 is in a co2 tank or prodiced by a hamster or iguana. 

i use the fermentation method in my small 6 sq ft closet. i have 6 simply orange containers for this. i simply change the sugar about once a week or so and it works well for me (need to decant the water out because it has an alcohol content in it that will retard or stop the fermentation). had a .85g/watt yield under a 250w hps with 5 week veg on my last grow using this method


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## past times (Feb 23, 2008)

anyone know how much co2 is in a 20lbs tank?


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## fdd2blk (Feb 23, 2008)

homerdog said:


> Was looking for a slightly more educated response from the moderators, knowing this is not an overly effective method. How much CO2 is produced through respiration of a small animal (actual amount, which I haven't been able to find elsewhere). People also use fermentation to boost in small room, I can't imagine that this is much more efficient. I have a back ground in science and would love to see the actual numbers. I may eventually have to commit to a regulated system to allow for slightly higher temps but am curious about the numbers produced by different methods.


all right.....

if you are running the proper type of exhaust system your little hamster won't do diddly for you. put your hamster in the sealed room. shut off the ventilation. how long will it take your hamster to die? several days maybe? i don't think the tiny little lungs of a hamster are going to put out any significant amount of CO2. i could be wrong but common sense is leading me on this one.


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## PlasmaRadio (Feb 23, 2008)

I'd say about 20 lbs.

Anyway, this has to be up there with dumb posts... I hope that guy wasn't serious about not knowing if iguanas breathe or not. Don't lose sleep over co2, there are much bigger concerns than that! You could affect your yield more with a dehumidifier than yeast. As long as you have proper ventilation there will always be enough co2, trust me this planet has surplus.

Also, everyone knows that canaries make the most co2.


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## Tanuvan (Feb 23, 2008)

I was thinking possibly rabbits. Especially during mating season.


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## fdd2blk (Feb 23, 2008)

Tanuvan said:


> I was thinking possibly rabbits. Especially during mating season.



now we're getting somewhere.  

i'd just buy a bigger light.


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## panhead (Feb 23, 2008)

A mouse on a wheel 

Instead of putting a whole flock of stupid hamsters in there you could accomplish much more co2 by simply opening up the door once a day & laying a big fart, then closing the door.


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## Tanuvan (Feb 23, 2008)

That's methane and hydrogen sulfide not CO2.


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## panhead (Feb 23, 2008)

Tanuvan said:


> That's methane and hydrogen sulfide not CO2.


Yeah,i know, but neither one will make a difference in anything 

I still cant get over a mouse,this is about as bad as the turtle water thread.


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## PlasmaRadio (Feb 24, 2008)

Maybe you could hook the hamster wheel up to a fan system so you get co2 and circulation. Someone get on this now!


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## homerdog (Feb 24, 2008)

Thanks PastTimes. You provided me a portion of the answer I am looking for. I never claimed that this was an effective method just wanted some #'s for sh*t's and giggles. Light and air movement are not the problem. Humidity and Heat will be if I don't correct for them. Any one ever try this product -Edgestar Portable Air Cooler w/ Ionic Air Purifier-
Claims it will drop output air temp by 12 degrees, dehumidifies, and has an ionic purifier which I doubt works very well. Little swamper coolers won't work well in my area due to high humidity. Again #'s for regulated CO2 and small animals would be appreciated.


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## Tanuvan (Feb 24, 2008)

homerdog said:


> Thanks PastTimes. Again #'s for regulated CO2 and small animals would be appreciated.



I suspect you would be better off asking that respiration question in a veterinary forum.


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## PlasmaRadio (Feb 24, 2008)

Tanuvan said:


> I suspect you would be better off asking that respiration question in a veterinary forum.


What a sane answer. I am unaccustomed to those.


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## CALIGROWN (Feb 24, 2008)

feed the hamster crack...it will produce more Co2..to be exact..for every hamster, feed 1 gram of crack every day. it will bring there co2 levels from 800ppm to 1900 ppm...ive also tried this with cats and extacy....


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## JohnnyBravo (Feb 24, 2008)

past times said:


> anyone know how much co2 is in a 20lbs tank?


I'm gonna take a stab and say 20 pounds


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## panhead (Feb 24, 2008)

JohnnyBravo said:


> I'm gonna take a stab and say 20 pounds


Stop it,just stop it,between the caveman & now this your makin my night


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## fdd2blk (Feb 24, 2008)

i actually spent 20 mins googling "hamster lung capacity". all i got was a bunch of test results on damage caused by different things. i couldn't sort thru any of it.


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## budforever442200 (Feb 24, 2008)

a hamster breaths 4 time a sec.
and breaths out 10ppm every breath sooooo

if 4=4xz-10y(3)*sqf= your *answer......Easy!*


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## homerdog (Feb 24, 2008)

1,507,936,507,936,507,936,507 molecules min for fermentation (from the guy on 1st page) assuming 100% fermentation of 5lbs sugar week (he's prob not using 5lbs a week) (I have yet to see a yeast (designed for high alcohol) go above 20% alcohol, so I don't know what that would do to the #. 2,400,000,000 moecules min for the hamster (4 breaths a sec at 10ppm, assuming hamster at rest). Fermentation 62,830,6878,306 times as productive (5lbs sugar fermented mol/hamster mol). It's late so you can double check my math. Still waiting on a number for CO2 injection ppm per min. Now how about a guinea pig, LOL. Thanks to everyone who put in effort to this useless post.


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## homerdog (Feb 24, 2008)

I over simplified my explanation of how I arrived at the answer, the formula shown is not how I found #'s just what #'s I found, poor scientific method I know, but should lend to independent conformation.


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## past times (Feb 24, 2008)

not 5lbs sugar used per week. just how much is produced by fermentation of a 5lbs bag...which took me about 6 or 7 weeks and multiple different bottles. 

and to the smart guy who keeps saying 20 lbs in a 20 pound tank, thank you so much for adding. extremely valuable input buddy. ill crunch these numbers and actually add some info for you to drool over


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## joepro (Feb 25, 2008)

what is needed are sex slaves chained up in the grow rm,5 or 6 will do.
I'll run some test and post em here.


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## homerdog (Feb 25, 2008)

correction - optimal fermentation of 1lb of sugar a week produces 125,413,359,750 times as many molecules of CO2 per minute compared to hamster respiration. *Here is a useful question.* I would be interested in hearing what the concentration of CO2 you (past times) are getting in your 48 cubic ft closet grow(assuming 2x3x8ft tall, can't figure out mathematically due to room exhaust) (some guys are using meters/sensors with their tanks as they should be) vs what conc the tank guys are trying to achieve. 
Past times - are you using sog or scrog in your closet or some other method. If you like beer you could two birds with one stone (though your limited space would prob prevent having car boys in the closet


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## past times (Feb 25, 2008)

that is what i have been trying to figure out. dont have a meter though and really dont want to buy one. with the co2 tank, if you truely have 20 lbs of co2 in the tank then you have about 189 moles co2... thats compared to the 30 moles produced by the 5 lbs sugar. talking to people, they said a tank lasts about a month. so with my system i am making 1/6 the amount of co2 in twice as much time. (I did all of this stuff stoned though, so i might be off, but looked through it a couple times and think it is right)

as far as my grow, i veg about 5-6 weeks, topping after about 4 or 5 weeks when they are 9 inches tall. after the top i let them recover then flower. i guess you can say i lollipop my plants. i am pretty aggresive with pruning taking aff all bottom shoots on the bottom foot of the plant. this usually gives me about 1 foot of buds on top (each plant having 6 colas at about the same lvl). i do this because of my relatively small light. as far a ventilation goes i have a pc intake coming through a wall that shoots the incoming air just over the soil lvl. i also have a bathroom fan with a carbon filter pulling air out through the ceiling. i wish i had pics but that is a no go. 

the thing about my room is i have plenty of height. and it just so happens that i have a few feet on the bottom to slip a 5 gallon carboy. only problem is bottling the damn beer...just takes too long. not to mention i would produce 5 gallons of beer a week.


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## stonegrove (Feb 26, 2008)

lol i DOUBT the hamster even puts out an 8th of the Co2 you put out lol


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## lowerlevel (Apr 25, 2008)

178 hours of co2 when using setting 4 in a 56 cubic feet room = 20 pounds 

oh and its 11.50 to refill at your local welding shop


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## THSeaofgreen (Apr 25, 2008)

So what have we decided is the best CO2 method?


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## PowerTrance (May 6, 2008)

I am not a biologist, but I did fail it 3 times... Anyway, those tiny rodent lungs won't make co2 fast enough to use it during the hot "sunny" day, plus you'd have to capture it efficiently. There's already living creatures in the house to exhale shitloads of co2... SO, I am thinking we could make a "mask" to wear at night which will connect to a long ass tube leading to a bigass garbage bag in the basement... Then we just pull it into the grow room even while venting, and we'll still have shitloads of co2 as it just gets replenished during the night when we sleep. How about it? Let us brainstorm some ideas to cleverly attach a tube collection device to one's mouth for night time...


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## Budsworth (May 6, 2008)

Fuck a hamster, try a 3 toed sloth.


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## bicycle racer (May 7, 2008)

a small mammal of that size will make no difference.on full grown cannabis plants. no difference and besides you have to vent anyway. maybe enough co2 for a sprout in a shoe box but thats it


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## bicycle racer (May 7, 2008)

do mammals actually produce c02 i thought it is simply inhaled with the other gasses nitrogen and oxygen and then exhaled because the body doesnt use c02. so this would change the ratio of oxygen nitrogen and carbon dioxide but not necesarily raise c02 levels unless there is a process that takes place that creates more c02 in the body during resperation meaning more was exhaled than inhaled. is anyone familiar with how this process actually works is c02 created in the body or is oxygen simply removed making the c02 ratio higher in the exhaled breath? as far as best c02 system thats simple c02 tank and regulator. i worked in aquaria most of the fermentation devices work ok but only for small areas if it is a big grow or aquarium a tank and regulator will be required for best results


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## Koabear (May 7, 2008)

used up oxygen is converted to Carbon (which we ar made ) and oxygen (which we are breathing in) when we breathe it in our lung combusted the gas down and we use it up and what left over is the end effect of our carbon and oxygen mixing CO2


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## homerdog (May 7, 2008)

I believe if you refer to my earlier figures you can easily determine which method is most effective. Although it was interesting to note how many times more effective simple fermentation is than respiration.


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## bicycle racer (May 7, 2008)

i dont think thats how it works. does anyone actually know how mammal respiration works with regard to what goes in as opposed to what comes out. i know about 18% of oxygen is used by the body per breath and a significant amount is unused and exhaled. what are the actual contents of exhaled breath from a mammal as oppposed to the contents when inhaled. anybody really know about this?


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## PowerTrance (May 8, 2008)

check google, that's where I found it.. it's a whole big explanation...


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## kingpapawawa (May 8, 2008)

bicycle racer said:


> i dont think thats how it works. does anyone actually know how mammal respiration works with regard to what goes in as opposed to what comes out. i know about 18% of oxygen is used by the body per breath and a significant amount is unused and exhaled. what are the actual contents of exhaled breath from a mammal as oppposed to the contents when inhaled. anybody really know about this?


anyone that took 7th grade biology should know... but ill break it down for you..


cellular respiration.. oxygen and glucose consumed by cells and give off water, carbon dioxide (co2) and energy.

physiologic respiration (aka breathing).. moving air in and carbon dioxide out.

you breathe not only to take in oxygen but also to expel co2, a byproduct of all your cells doing their jobs.

plants work just the opposite. they breathe in co2 and exhale oxygen.


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## pasadenabri (May 8, 2008)

I can't believe this post is still alive! I'm pretty sure the reason you cna't find out how much Co2 a Hamster produces is because it is the most insignificant question in the world. I would have thought someone with a background in science could think of a better question or run the experiment himself w/o asking a bunch of pot heads. Just me tho...


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## Koabear (May 8, 2008)

well a pot head might for some reason or another have hat useful trivial knowledge were are stones i have smoked with a lot of out there kinda cool people that have knowledge like that lol


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## Garden Knowm (May 8, 2008)

slap a big thick tube on your grill and duct tape it to your head.. run the tube into your grow room.... 

it's organic


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## PowerTrance (May 9, 2008)

there's some other gasses that we exhale like ammonia that the plants might not like... but then again, MJ's probabbly been around since the dinosaurs...


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## bicycle racer (May 9, 2008)

ok so more c02 goes out than comes in with mammals because of various biological processes at the cellular level that makes sense. im sure i learned this in high school but forgot thanks. plants on the other hand basically break the co2 bond and use the carbon for there tissues and release the o2 into the atmosphere correct more or less? so basically a plant assimilates its tissue from atmosphere amazing. where as us mammals have to consume other organisms to get our carbon to grow. so in a way plants are made out of air it sounds odd but basically true in laymans terms. very fascinating


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## GreenHog (May 10, 2008)

A large herd of elephants in your grow closet would (imho), produce at least 900 ppm of co2. Lots and lots of organic ferts too!


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## Budsworth (May 10, 2008)

It wont work my friend. Though I do love thess good ideas somebody will hit on a good idea pretty soon that will change the way we grow cannibas. In the mean time give me 
a 400 wat digital ballast and 2 home depot M/H & HPS bulbs and I can supply my self
with VERY good weed. I have tried the water bottle w? sugar&yeast. Canyt tell if it made a diff. only did it for 3 weeks into flowing with fan off and lights on then became a hassle.


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## deezstraightflush (May 11, 2008)

so it may have been answered before somewhere else on rollitup but since dry ice is co2 in a solid form, and it releases itself back into a gaseous state when dropped into hot water pretty quickly, and it's not that expensive, wouldn't this be a good inexpensive way to supply extra co2?


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## Zekedogg (May 11, 2008)

deezstraightflush said:


> so it may have been answered before somewhere else on rollitup but since dry ice is co2 in a solid form, and it releases itself back into a gaseous state when dropped into hot water pretty quickly, and it's not that expensive, wouldn't this be a good inexpensive way to supply extra co2?


Yes it is


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## bicycle racer (May 11, 2008)

you could put the dry ice into ice water in a bucket and wrap with a towel to insulate from heat it would then release the co2 over a few hours


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## Ellehcim (May 11, 2008)

I put my cats in the grow room to increase the CO2 and they ATE THE POT!


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## bicycle racer (May 12, 2008)

both cats and dogs will sometimes eat cannabis. i had an expensive quarter 1 time and my hound ate all but some shake i was not pleased


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## importsc41886 (May 12, 2008)

i agree just go out and get the regulated system or a propane/natural gas c02 generator and you will be pleased with the results.


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## warfare (May 13, 2008)

Dubbuh said:


> haha fdd finds the funniest pictures........
> 
> yeah i wanna know the answer to this too...... hamsters are kinda cool...... reptiles produce c02 too right???rather have some iguanas or somthin....always wanted an iguana


NO IGUNANAS IN GROW AREA.. THEY ARE HERBAVOURS USED TO HAVE ONE AND I LITTERALLY FED IT BUDS... HAHA YOUD WAKE UP WITH A BIG HIGH IGUANA WITH NO PLANTS!!!!!!


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## DankCloset (May 13, 2008)

lmfao hampster, shit i use dry ice.

Dc


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## PlasmaRadio (May 13, 2008)

warfare said:


> YOUD WAKE UP WITH A BIG HIGH IGUANA WITH NO PLANTS!!!!!!


Nothing is worse than a big high iguana.







That motherfucker will get the munchies and eat your helicopter.


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## bicycle racer (May 14, 2008)

oh yeah an iguana would be happy. i put some anoles (little lizards) in a grow once to eat fungus gnats plus they were cool to see hanging around


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## BigBudBalls (May 14, 2008)

bicycle racer said:


> do mammals actually produce c02 i thought it is simply inhaled with the other gasses nitrogen and oxygen and then exhaled because the body doesnt use c02. so this would change the ratio of oxygen nitrogen and carbon dioxide but not necesarily raise c02 levels unless there is a process that takes place that creates more c02 in the body during resperation meaning more was exhaled than inhaled. is anyone familiar with how this process actually works is c02 created in the body or is oxygen simply removed making the c02 ratio higher in the exhaled breath? as far as best c02 system thats simple c02 tank and regulator. i worked in aquaria most of the fermentation devices work ok but only for small areas if it is a big grow or aquarium a tank and regulator will be required for best results


I'd say yes. just got a CO2 meter and did a nice exhale on it and wound up with a 6000ppm reading.


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## PowerTrance (May 16, 2008)

BigBudBalls said:


> I'd say yes. just got a CO2 meter and did a nice exhale on it and wound up with a 6000ppm reading.


What happens when you drink some beer or soda and then burp in front of the meter ?


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## bicycle racer (May 16, 2008)

thats funny a high reading im sure


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## WWgrower (May 17, 2008)

So I guess I should take my lab off the tread mill in my growroom 12 hour a day??????


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## sethrath (May 17, 2008)

ok hamster vs bottle co2 well its not 6000 ppm have to figure hamster is smaller than a human so i just went looked up hamster exhale on wiki and its .3ppm so no not enough and to respon to how much co2 is in a 20lbs cylnder its 20lbs duhhhh well 15 give or take


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## BigBudBalls (May 17, 2008)

sethrath said:


> ok hamster vs bottle co2 well its not 6000 ppm have to figure hamster is smaller than a human so i just went looked up hamster exhale on wiki and its .3ppm so no not enough and to respon to how much co2 is in a 20lbs cylnder its 20lbs duhhhh well 15 give or take


Doing a quick search resulted in 1680 cubic feet for a 20 lb'er. But CO2 is not measured in cubic feet since its partially liquid in the bottle.

A good reason why my customers change the N2 and He hp bottles via pressure and the CO2 via weight.


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## bicycle racer (May 22, 2008)

yes true co2 is a liquid at relatively low pressures compared to other gasses and must be filled by weight and not pressure like other gasses. this is good because you can stuff alot more c02 in a certain size container than you could with other gasses also less dangerous less pressure


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## co2Meter (May 24, 2008)

You'll need to test this. I suggest you find a high school student who is looking for a science fair project 

Rollo
Indoor Air Quality Monitor


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## Problem Child (May 25, 2008)

I have a team of six hamsters powering my whole lighting system.


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## BigBudBalls (May 25, 2008)

Problem Child said:


> I have a team of six hamsters powering my whole lighting system.



AWESOME! And only six! The steroid costs for them has gotta be killer.
(though with the 'roids, you can train them as attack hamster too )


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## bicycle racer (May 25, 2008)

lol seriously though the other day i bought 8 pounds of dry ice and let it disolve in my grow plants go crazy instant growth my next goal is a co2 system(tank)


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