# 21-0-0 / 0-46-0 / 0-0-60 if you understand this , speak up.



## driftwoodg (Feb 20, 2009)

I used organic ferts in the beginning. bat guano, and fish emulsion.

now i'm interested in trying straight ferts. 

anyone have experience with this.
I see it as being less costly as pre-fab ferts.


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## weedyoo (Feb 20, 2009)

driftwoodg said:


> I used organic ferts in the beginning. bat guano, and fish emulsion.
> 
> now i'm interested in trying straight ferts.
> 
> ...


made that switch a long time ago. 
o had alot of trial with this to get it right but now i work with teaspoons and tablespoons mixed right in to soil. i also use this 
Flower-tone® 3-5-7












Printer Friendly
_A COMPLETE PLANT FOOD WITH ALL ESSENTIAL NUTRIENTS_










Per plant use 1/2 of a tablespoon.Dried Blood 12-0-0









Dried Blood is a by-product of meat (rendering factories). It is produced from the blood of beef and pork, which is dried and then ground into a meal. Espoma® Dried Blood is the finest dried blood available. It provides a slow, steady feeding of nitrogen, a primary nutrient which helps to promote rapid growth and deep, dark green color. Espoma® Dried Blood is an ideal supplement for all annuals and perennials. It is an all-natural material approved for organic gardening.

Sizes: Available in 4 and 18 lb. bags 

Rates of Application 
riple Super Phosphate 0-46-0












Printer Friendly










An enriched source of phosphorus; helps stimulate root development and aids in fruit and flower formation; easy to apply granular form; ideal for lawns, trees, shrubs, and vegetables. (5, 20, and 50 lb. Bags)

Sizes: Available in 5 and 38 lb. bags

Directi _Per Plant:_
- For small plants sprinkle 1 teaspoonful around plant base. If possible work into soil.
Potash 0-0-60










An enriched source of potassium for all plants; aids in developing plant vigor and enhances disease resistance. (5 lbs. Bags)

Sizes: Available in 5 lb. bags

Directions:
_Per Plant:_
For small plants sprinkle ½-1 teaspoonful of Potash around base of plant making sure not to expose Sulfate of Potash to plant foliage..


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## DownOnWax (Feb 20, 2009)

I use fertilizers like weedyoo but I buy them in bulk for my legal garden. 

The numbers always refer to the ammount of Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Pottasium

In that exact order. If I am fertilizing I always use an equal parts fert. ex: 20-20-20


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## driftwoodg (Feb 20, 2009)

Great! 
ok, I'm using the espoma line, and have all three n-p-k. 
so what i'm getting at, is other than amending soil pre grow, which I did organically.
but dissolving the granules in h20, and then adding to the soil at specific times thru the grow for optimum results.
has anyone had experience and results with this type of application .

I've been disolving 5 tsp of 21-0-0 per gal h20- dilueted at aplication
5 tsp of 0-46-0 per gal h20 '' '' '' ''
poash is sitting on about 1/2 cup, per gall. as i'm not sure how strong to mix this one

this is done in seperate gallon jugs. 
so how much potash should I be using.? say per gal. I like to mix a hot batch, and dilute, rather than not.


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## driftwoodg (Feb 20, 2009)

weedyoo said:


> made that switch a long time ago.
> o had alot of trial with this to get it right but now i work with teaspoons and tablespoons mixed right in to soil. i also use this
> Flower-tone® 3-5-7
> 
> ...


 
thanks for taking the time to break that down. props to you.


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## driftwoodg (Feb 20, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/150813-wow-20-days-int-veg.html

here's the grow.
thanks.


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## driftwoodg (Feb 20, 2009)

just trying to get a little more help here. I have the product. 
i'm only trying to get some ratios and result feedback.

I don't enjoy chasing the goose.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2009)

driftwoodg said:


> just trying to get a little more help here. I have the product.
> i'm only trying to get some ratios and result feedback.
> 
> I don't enjoy chasing the goose.


You only need two foods to grow pot from start to finish - a high N food for foliage production and a 1-3-2 ratio for supporting flowering, as long as the foliage remains green and healthy. If it starts to yellow and fall off from the bottom up, then switch back to the high N food or one that has a more balanced NPK ratio.

I always add the meals to my potting mixes. Plants do better when fed a constant supply of nutrients which true organics like the meals provide. The chicken feathers, eye of the newt, vitamins, and enzymes is just alot of hype.

The high sodium chloride content of Flower-Tone would be a deal killer for me much less the 5.0% sulfur value. That doesn't make a bit of sense and is way out of line.

Get familiar with these concepts: http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

UB


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## driftwoodg (Feb 20, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> You only need two foods to grow pot from start to finish - a high N food for foliage production and a 1-3-2 ratio for supporting flowering, as long as the foliage remains green and healthy. If it starts to yellow and fall off from the bottom up, then switch back to the high N food or one that has a more balanced NPK ratio.
> 
> I always add the meals to my potting mixes. Plants do better when fed a constant supply of nutrients which true organics like the meals provide. The chicken feathers, eye of the newt, vitamins, and enzymes is just alot of hype.
> 
> ...


i'm with it, and thanks for the link.

if you check out my grow, let me know if you would change anything.
the buds seem to be growing very well, I was just wondering if adding a single element such as n p or k, would have optimum results.

I flush every 2 weeks, and know that this will wash the medium of salts, and some nutes, and need to know --should i quit the nutes at this point of the grow, or just keep going until week 5.

I know, I should just kick back and let 'em grow.....
but you know , my first indoor grow and all...........


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## driftwoodg (Feb 20, 2009)

so i did a test run with a little girl who was stuck living in a dixie cup.. had some nice tiny buds.. 
i added a test solution of potash on her, and within 3 hours she is dead.
all th lower branches fell down and cellular structure collapsed. she went flat, and fell over.
wtf?
i've read on here that the test meters for nutes are'nt that reliable, but used one anyways.
usually with a middle line (optimum level) the ph is 5.8-6.2 so I ran with it.
firkin nuked her.
i thought potassium wouldn't burn your plants?

i am seeing where the patience comes in, and one needs to let nature do her thing. 
it's tough overcoming that when they're so close. 

I am looking into some different hydro setups for vegetable gardening, and this is sort of a test run using lights, and regulating nutes.
obviously with hydro tables are supplied for that type of thing. 
this is a blast regardless. this forum is a great help, and it's amazing sifting thru all the this and thats of it all.

i'm much more of an organic guy, but i like to experiment with supercharging plants... I'm looking for that steroid effect!!


i'd still like to here some more input on the matter.


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## born2killspam (Feb 21, 2009)

C'mon.. This could be a good rudimentary fertilizer discussion thread.. Oddly thats a little lacking in the advanced forum IMO.. Its a slippery slope to a closed thread..


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 21, 2009)

driftwoodg said:


> so i did a test run with a little girl who was stuck living in a dixie cup.. had some nice tiny buds..
> i added a test solution of potash on her, and within 3 hours she is dead.
> all th lower branches fell down and cellular structure collapsed. she went flat, and fell over.
> wtf?
> i've read on here that the test meters for nutes are'nt that reliable, but used one anyways.


In most cases it's the nut behind the wheel, not the car. Most folks do not calibrate correctly nor do they know how to get an accurate reading.



> usually with a middle line (optimum level) the ph is 5.8-6.2 so I ran with it.
> firkin nuked her.
> i thought potassium wouldn't burn your plants?


How much and what was the source?



> i am seeing where the patience comes in, and one needs to let nature do her thing.


Yep, and most have to learn the lesson the hard way. Do NOT force your plants.



> i'm much more of an organic guy, but i like to experiment with supercharging plants... I'm looking for that steroid effect!!


You can not "supercharge" a plant.....you are setting yourself up for failure.  

Less is more,
UB


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## born2killspam (Feb 21, 2009)

I'll concur on the supercharging.. Plants usually appear immensely happy for a short period when they get over fertilized.. The happiness will inevitably be short lived.. It can take roughly a week for the plant to respond to a feeding, and because of that alot of ppl end up reapplying the ferts too soon.. Aside from that, chemical ferts aren't going to add any 'hormones' per se.. The plants make those themselves using basic compounds.. Chemicals can do a good at what they do though.. Anybody who tells you differently just doesn't know how.. You can buy certain hormone suppliments, but to see much if any benefit, you'll need to have all other aspects of your grow running smooth and efficiently..
You really don't need a pH meter.. The droplet tests are more than accurate enough, and 'can' in some cases be more trustworthy since the need for calibration is out of the picture.. I'm not dissing your meter, but if you're going to rely on it then treat it like one of your children.. On the topic of pH, yours is probably a tad too low for soil if your meter is correct.. Just out of curiousity, what does your tap water read? For soil you really don't want to get much away from 6.3-6.8.. This is step 1 to getting your feeding regimen in order.. Its pretty much impossible to control nutes when your pH is off..


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## driftwoodg (Feb 21, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> In most cases it's the nut behind the wheel, not the car. Most folks do not calibrate correctly nor do they know how to get an accurate reading.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
it was espoma, potash 0-0-60

i started with 5 tsp to a gal, and tested with a meter, 
I read not to trust those meters, as they are cheaply built, but I have one so.....
I had a low reading, and added about half a cup. lol !! I was like " this should do it" 


I was trying to get a reading from the meter which would indicate the amount of potash in the h20...
guess what...

it didnt work. I was only looking for a pass of fail on the trial plant and or the meter.

the test failed. not i, as it was an experiment.

as far as setting myself up for failure, I don't belive I fall into that category.
i'm just having fun with nature.

I know I can go out and buy manufactured chemical and organic nutes.,sups, and all that .... i have all the latest grow books and mags,
I just enjoy learning thru others mistakes, as well as my own trial and error.

and I also enjoy having a real topic without someone jumping in like some pre-pubescent teen trying to feel cool behind their cup of cool-aid.


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## driftwoodg (Feb 21, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I'll concur on the supercharging.. Plants usually appear immensely happy for a short period when they get over fertilized.. The happiness will inevitably be short lived.. It can take roughly a week for the plant to respond to a feeding, and because of that alot of ppl end up reapplying the ferts too soon.. Aside from that, chemical ferts aren't going to add any 'hormones' per se.. The plants make those themselves using basic compounds.. Chemicals can do a good at what they do though.. Anybody who tells you differently just doesn't know how.. You can buy certain hormone suppliments, but to see much if any benefit, you'll need to have all other aspects of your grow running smooth and efficiently..
> You really don't need a pH meter.. The droplet tests are more than accurate enough, and 'can' in some cases be more trustworthy since the need for calibration is out of the picture.. I'm not dissing your meter, but if you're going to rely on it then treat it like one of your children.. On the topic of pH, yours is probably a tad too low for soil if your meter is correct.. Just out of curiousity, what does your tap water read? For soil you really don't want to get much away from 6.3-6.8.. This is step 1 to getting your feeding regimen in order.. Its pretty much impossible to control nutes when your pH is off..


my tap water is 7.2
when I add the triple super phosphate, the ph is in the5.8-6.2 area.
flushed it's 7.4

my plants are happy, and healthy. 

i guess i could buy some ph up/down, 
just haven't had the need.

as far as feeding, the soil was amended at the beginning .
I made a feeding schedule , tho I don't always stick to it, depending on temp humidity, and the likes.

I keep my grow room within a couple of degrees whether it be day or night.( light cycle.)
and the roots stay a constant 72f


I'm just picking the minds of those that know, so that I may learn. 
And I appreciate all the knowledge you bring. 


so taking into consideration , every time I feed or water, I flood and drain. 
this must have an effect on the amount of nutes retained in the soil.
and I'm at the time of flower, where the buds are set, and I want to give them enough potassium ( as much ) as i can.
to let them blow up.
thats where i'm at.

i'm going to get the ph drops and test the soil.... just to see.. 
keep it coming.


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## driftwoodg (Feb 21, 2009)

cronusoner said:


> wow! wtf! your a fuckin toy! and u had the small balls to go on my page and say my plants look sad? lol well lil buddy not only does no one believe u but u should just stop growing if your just in it to kill plants! go kick over your moms rose bush if it makes u feel better!


I'm only in it to kill the plants .

I think most of us are....

you might be a little simple tho boy. I understand , it happens like that sometimes, just don't blame yourself ok jr.


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## driftwoodg (Feb 21, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> C'mon.. This could be a good rudimentary fertilizer discussion thread.. Oddly thats a little lacking in the advanced forum IMO.. Its a slippery slope to a closed thread..


yuppers. just trying to get some info.
that why I'M here.


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## born2killspam (Feb 21, 2009)

> my tap water is 7.2
> when I add the triple super phosphate, the ph is in the5.8-6.2 area.
> flushed it's 7.4


Those are some pretty erratic numbers.. I'd pH adjust everything you dump on it to 6.5.. I've always seen healthy run-off to be only a point or two lower, or even the same as the water applied.. I do think something is off in those pics, but I can't quite peg it.. Most plants I've seen that assume that slightly droopy leaf sag when otherwise lush, and they aren't over watered soon go into micronute deficiencies and start showing definate pH issues.. Some organics and salts aren't exactly compatible, and can cause pH swing, but it might be simpler too.. Did you mention soil details??
I am kind of torn though, how are they looking since your most recent pics?


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## weedyoo (Feb 21, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> You only need two foods to grow pot from start to finish - a high N food for foliage production and a 1-3-2 ratio for supporting flowering, as long as the foliage remains green and healthy. If it starts to yellow and fall off from the bottom up, then switch back to the high N food or one that has a more balanced NPK ratio.
> 
> I always add the meals to my potting mixes. Plants do better when fed a constant supply of nutrients which true organics like the meals provide. The chicken feathers, eye of the newt, vitamins, and enzymes is just alot of hype.
> 
> ...


yes nute lock up. if you are asking me less is more.

you might want to read some of these
http://www.living-learning.com/faq/npk.htm
http://cropsoil.psu.edu/extension/facts/agfacts13.cfm


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## born2killspam (Feb 22, 2009)

weedyoo said:


> yes nute lock up. if you are asking me less is more.
> 
> you might want to read some of these
> http://www.living-learning.com/faq/npk.htm
> http://cropsoil.psu.edu/extension/facts/agfacts13.cfm


Less is more until they ask for more in no uncertain terms, then for an application or two, or maybe longer term, a little more is more.. Just want to stress the link between lock-up and pH to go along with that concept.. Only feed your plants what they ask for if they asked for it when their pH was stable/proper.. 
If pH was erratic/off when they start showing deficiency, get that fixed first, and see if they can find the nutes they seem to want by themselves.. Feeding to combat lock-up is a black-hole leading to nowhere good..


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## driftwoodg (Feb 22, 2009)

here are the most recent pics-4 hours ago 
this is 31 days into flower cycle.12/12


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## driftwoodg (Feb 22, 2009)

there are some good points . thanks

as far as erratic ph levels, I'm not using a digital meter, so it's basically " in the ballpark. 

and even when I owned my pool company, where "off" levels of ph drastically change the ppm level outcome of every reading,
it was always in the "park" with todays non digital ph meters. even with a liquid system your just matching colors, and who's to say everyone see the same color spectrum.


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## weedyoo (Feb 23, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Less is more until they ask for more in no uncertain terms, then for an application or two, or maybe longer term, a little more is more.. Just want to stress the link between lock-up and pH to go along with that concept.. Only feed your plants what they ask for if they asked for it when their pH was stable/proper..
> If pH was erratic/off when they start showing deficiency, get that fixed first, and see if they can find the nutes they seem to want by themselves.. Feeding to combat lock-up is a black-hole leading to nowhere good..


very good point if you do make it to nute lock up folar feeding is anther route you could try


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 23, 2009)

driftwoodg said:


> it was espoma, potash 0-0-60
> 
> i started with 5 tsp to a gal, and tested with a meter,


Ouch! 5 tsp.!? There's your problem. You've not only created a VERY high saline situation which will burn senstive root hairs and root tips but you just locked out N, Ca, and Mg. You can't have such an element overage without creating problems elsewhere. Get familiar with nutrient antagonism.
http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm



> I read not to trust those meters, as they are cheaply built, but I have one so.....
> I had a low reading, and added about half a cup. lol !! I was like " this should do it"


Double ouch!

Plants look good. 

Less is more,
UB


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## cronusoner (Feb 23, 2009)

i agree with this guy. i mean come on what kind of advanced grower askes this type of stuff??

wat eva homie do ur thang and let yo tities hang!!!



born2killspam said:


> C'mon.. This could be a good rudimentary fertilizer discussion thread.. Oddly thats a little lacking in the advanced forum IMO.. Its a slippery slope to a closed thread..


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## born2killspam (Feb 23, 2009)

That wasn't even my point.. I just wanted to avoid 90% of the posts being a flame war, and 10% being productive discussion.. I browse these forums on some slow computers.. I hate loading pages that aren't worth reading..


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