# Riot seeds



## littleflavio (Dec 27, 2010)

has anyone here tried growing riot seeds? it seems like he carries promising strains. have been checking hes strain out for my next order a little expensive on a few, he also carries the assain's crew aka Cypress hill Gangs cut aka purple og kush, santa barbara purple kush. *
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*


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## hydgrow (Dec 27, 2010)

Ill give you some advice.....check his grows out first. IMO his plants are sick, not good, looking. Also I have never dealt with matt but I do remember a time not to long ago and he wanted all of these cuts to help the med. community and now he is charging out the ass for 6 seeds. Again just my opinion but I would not support/buy from this dude no matter what seeds or cuts he has just based on his actions.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 27, 2010)

They are a lil pricey for 6 reg's but Stormy White Cough has my attenion I'm gonna pick a pack up when I make my next seed order in febuary, and some Arianny Celeste too.


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## racerboy71 (Dec 27, 2010)

i have his pre 98 bubba and his clockwork orange bx, and two freebies that i got when i ordered them.. haven't cracked any of them as of yet, but his shit sounds like fire..


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## racerboy71 (Dec 27, 2010)

oh yah, one of the freebies was that stormy white cough,, sounds pretty dank..


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## crystalman (Dec 27, 2010)

stormy white cough sounds bomb


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## 00ashoo (Dec 27, 2010)

theres no dout that the selection grabs your attention, enough to buy...quite pricey for the 6 regulars you would probably do a seed run before you got enough fems to choose an exellent mother and for some of the prices id expect to get a ridiculous plant i could grow over n over


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## littleflavio (Dec 27, 2010)

racerboy71 said:


> oh yah, one of the freebies was that stormy white cough,, sounds pretty dank..


where did you purchased hes beans?


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## littleflavio (Dec 27, 2010)

hydgrow said:


> Ill give you some advice.....check his grows out first. IMO his plants are sick, not good, looking. Also I have never dealt with matt but I do remember a time not to long ago and he wanted all of these cuts to help the med. community and now he is charging out the ass for 6 seeds. Again just my opinion but I would not support/buy from this dude no matter what seeds or cuts he has just based on his actions.


good advice...yeah hes price are a little way over hes head, just wondering if he has good dank weed, i might just try a few pick n mix on hes strains


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## racerboy71 (Dec 27, 2010)

he has a website.. riot seeds.nl or something like that.. i got them a few months ago, before the attitude started stocking them..
i was just on his site a lil bit ago, and he said if you spend more than two bills, you get free beans.. i think i spent close to four bills for the pre 98 and the clockwork orange bx, and like i said, i got the two freebies, the stoney white cough and sandy orange dream i think is the other..


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## PhatColas (Jan 30, 2011)

Save your money. His beans are sub-standard. Plus the guys a douche. For several years, he went around to every canna site he could find telling a sad story. Saying he was trying to grow meds for poor sick people, had tried buying seeds from T H C Farmer, but got ripped and now sick people would suffer. Lot's of kind people gifted him seeds, and even cuts of elite strains. He repackaged the seeds and sold them. He fem'd most of the clone onlys, using STS, but used too much on quite a few of the clones he reversed. Lot's of people that bought his stuff last year, reported bad germ rates and mutants. Money wasted, AVOID RIOT SEEDS - aka - Seeds of Sham & Shame.


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## Balzac89 (Jan 30, 2011)

That guy steals growers pictures and posts them as his plants. Seen it b4, he also carried on discarded genetics from Subcool.


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## colonuggs (Jan 31, 2011)

racerboy71 said:


> i have his pre 98 bubba and his clockwork orange bx, and two freebies that i got when i ordered them.. haven't cracked any of them as of yet, but his shit sounds like fire..


Oh yea.... used my pre98 bubba for that 

We used to hang on potpimp before the place went to shit...he sent me a few spidermite infested strains.....i got a nice C-4 now from him......didnt know he wanted to breed or i would have never sent him my bubba cut


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## Bad Karma (Jan 31, 2011)

I was just noticing the other day on the Attitude that both Gage Green & Riot Seeds had Grape Stomper (aka Sour Grapes).
I had been wondering who had the original, but I guess this thread has just answered that question for me.


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## budpatch (Feb 2, 2011)

I've been collecting genetics for a couple years now, and have heard lots of bad and good about Matt Riot. I tend to hear lots of bad and good about pretty much every breeder that I've researched though... He responded immediately to a question that I asked through the website and was very helpful overall. I have a couple of his strains, Blue Chocolate OG and Sex Pistol. Got Gage Greens Grape Stomper x OG as well. Gage responded to questions through his website almost immediately as well. Both of these guys seem to have some fire genetics on hand. I'm looking forward to popping the Blue Chocolate OG and the Grape Stomper x OG for my next grows. I'll make sure to post some kind of report, there is hardly anything at all out there on these breeders currently.


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## plantevil (Feb 15, 2011)

i ordered some riots seeds thru attitude so i am also wondering about the quality of the seeds and of riots breeding techniques. the seeds themselves look healthy and decent. i really hope i dont end up with a shitty plant expecially because of the prices but i suppose i will have to wait and see i am optimistic. i have also noticed that some pics he uses are other breeders pics but ive seen this before. if u look at cannabiogens taskenti on attitude and also look at the picture of nirvanas indoor mix the are the exact same pic. ive seen this done with other pictures too and it makes me wonder who had the pic originally or maybe both seed companies ganked the pic from another grower/breeder??? i dunno


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## budpatch (Feb 17, 2011)

Just a follow up, but Matt Riot and the crew at Riot Seeds have been amazing. I've spoken with several people there with questions and I am amazed at how fast I get responses, and how nice these people are. Not to say anything about anyone else's experiences, but I really haven't had much positive experience having breeders follow up with me regarding the medical qualities of their strains. Even though most of the US breeders claim to be involved in the medical community, I get no response from their customer service team when I ask questions via their websites. None of the questions I am asking are in violation of any policies and do not relate to illegal activities. The first question I posted to Riot seeds was done on a Saturday morning...I got a response back from Matt himself...Saturday morning (yes, the same Saturday). Not riding anyones nuts here, but that kind of customer service will win me over every time. I have a little more faith in someone that actually responds, even if most of the other breeders are bashing the shit out of them. Those other guys didn't bother to send me an email back...nuff said.

Gonna grow this blue chocolate og and sex pistol out and post so we can get some info on these genetics out to the people!


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## longranger (Feb 17, 2011)

I have a grow in flower right now with three of Riots strains. They are extremely Vigorous plants with great structure and many bud sites. Great aroma for early flower. As any sane person does I will reserve judgement on the bud untill it is harvested and cured. So far so good.

As far as the web site and customer service everything has been first rate. Inquiries answered and beans shipped in a timely manner. Germ rate was literally near 100%.

Membership on the Riot website has an unusually high proportion of experienced growers, breeders and just good people. Mr Riot , Gage Green, and Motarebel amoungst others are on the site frequently .


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## splonewolf (Feb 17, 2011)

just started a pack of riot cluster fuck and they are out preforming plants that went in a month earlier. prob the best deal on attitude is the cluster fuck pack its only 25$, you can get some sick OG strains or who knows maybe even a clockwork, so worth it! i deff vouch for the dude. i belong to the website too(bucknumbers) good people, mad jokes, tons of info, you can order seeds directly from the site. mad bueno customer service. give it a try for sure!
BuckNumbers~splonewolf


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## racerboy71 (Feb 17, 2011)

colonuggs said:


> Oh yea.... used my pre98 bubba for that
> 
> We used to hang on potpimp before the place went to shit...he sent me a few spidermite infested strains.....i got a nice C-4 now from him......didnt know he wanted to breed or i would have never sent him my bubba cut


 oh snap.. i didn't even pick up on that old familiar avi.. so this means that his pre98 should be some fire than eh colo? and i've heard he has done the same things to others, said he was going to start a canna collective and asked for donations, only to turn around and make seed runs off of such donations.


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## splonewolf (Feb 17, 2011)

West coast drama. mad he said she said out there. i honestly dont buy he went around with a beggars cup asking for beans and ended up being one of the top breeders around shit doesn't work like that. 

BuckNumbers~splonewolf


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## Each One Teach One (Apr 11, 2011)

This guy took tester seeds from mota and hazemen grew them out and did a shitty job of breeding them. He's a fraud. Any genetics that you grow out of his and turn out bomb, don't give him credit. Cause all his genetics are stolen genetics.


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## Each One Teach One (Apr 11, 2011)

splonewolf said:


> West coast drama. mad he said she said out there. i honestly dont buy he went around with a beggars cup asking for beans and ended up being one of the top breeders around shit doesn't work like that.
> 
> BuckNumbers~splonewolf


Typical east coast fag.


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## coxnox (Oct 8, 2011)

100bucks for 6reg seeds ???? what that fuck... and if all what yu said is right(stolen gen, asking cut for med....)then we have to replicate by all not buying is fucking expensive seeds !!!


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## MrGreenway420 (Sep 20, 2012)

Anyone actually grow Riot seeds? Ya it looks great but anyone besides medicropper(youtube) been successful with Riot Gear? Pics?


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## racerboy71 (Sep 20, 2012)

MrGreenway420 said:


> Anyone actually grow Riot seeds? Ya it looks great but anyone besides medicropper(youtube) been successful with Riot Gear? Pics?


 i believe scarhole, a member on here is growing some of riots gear atm.. might want to check him out..


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## MrGreenway420 (Sep 20, 2012)

Couldn't find Scarholes grow, any help? I'm a noob on here but by no means a noob grower. Just here to get educated and not hate,just medik8. Thanks fellow Growers and thanks to you racerboy71.


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## racerboy71 (Sep 20, 2012)

MrGreenway420 said:


> Couldn't find Scarholes grow, any help? I'm a noob on here but by no means a noob grower. Just here to get educated and not hate,just medik8. Thanks fellow Growers and thanks to you racerboy71.


 i'll shoot scarhole a pm for you greenway and ask him to come on over and share his experience if you'd like...


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## MrGreenway420 (Sep 20, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> i'll shoot scarhole a pm for you greenway and ask him to come on over and share his experience if you'd like...


Thanks a bunch! Stay Green


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## SCARHOLE (Sep 23, 2012)

Riots Seed have been great for me. Fuck the haters that aint tried em.
I bought them this spring an he shiped em out as ordered.
Mine were Super Tough to make it threw my Guerilla grow.
Realy fast finish outdoors as advertised, ill be chopping em about Oct...
No hermie or non germ Issues here.
Early samples are DANK!

I mixed some fem nl5xHz pollen with riots bananna platinum an his Swing kid that should be dank.

My Riot purp bubba og an Bananna platinum are about done an smell incredible. I have little doubt they will be great. 
Starting to flower his swing kid, 2nd week.

I prolly get more riot seeds for next years outdoors...




Sorry my phones camera kinda sux,...

Pic of lil Purp Bubba Og from riot, in june.




Pic of Purp Bubba Og Riots tree bitch now...



Trics








Riots Banana Platinum (Ooger kush S1)


trics


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## stealthweed (Sep 23, 2012)

Wow lookin nice!
Hey how did you order from there site?I wanted to place an order, put everything in cart.And then I could only select credit card payment, the only payment I dont want, is there no other method?Contacted them an no answer.


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## sincitygrowJB (Sep 23, 2012)

stealthweed said:


> Wow lookin nice!
> Hey how did you order from there site?I wanted to place an order, put everything in cart.And then I could only select credit card payment, the only payment I dont want, is there no other method?Contacted them an no answer.


yea they only do CC payments now thats it better then mailing money i think!!! JB


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## SCARHOLE (Sep 23, 2012)

I mailed riot cash.
Email him for an addy, I bet he still does...


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## SCARHOLE (Sep 24, 2012)

[video=youtube;i2spZ-NDfS4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2spZ-NDfS4&amp;feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

Bananna platinum has me high as fuck.


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## Dwezelitsame (Sep 24, 2012)

i have his clockwork orange and sum nice free stuff this year have not busted any yet 

of all the jibberish i have read on him 
no one mentioned that his seeds came to me postmarked from Cali U S of A 


i wanted these once changed my mind on payment 
he banned me from site when i wanted agin had to weasel my order in 
very strange guy


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## stealthweed (Sep 24, 2012)

apparently he doesn't take cash anymore but will stay in connect hope I get them cookies :/


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## SCARHOLE (Sep 24, 2012)

Riot is a crazy mofo 
I hear riot has a giant red Mohawk .
Lol

But he's no evil scammer IMHO.


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## stealthweed (Sep 24, 2012)

Yeah also haven't heard of scamms so I'll try to do another payment method...


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## MrGreenway420 (Sep 27, 2012)

Thanks for the posts Scarhole. Be ordering the Plat. Banana Og for sure. Maybe some sort of Cookies too.


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## SCARHOLE (Oct 1, 2012)

Another pic of PBOG


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## Saiyan (Oct 5, 2012)

Ordered second to last pack of the black gorilla grape. Arrived in about two days after he shipped. Was very prompt emailing me back everytime and gave me detailed feedback. He also gave me a free pack of blue dream kush. Haven't popped them yet but no complaints here.


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## Pi$tol (Oct 9, 2012)

i got the same freebie too. My order was the Alien Bubba Crack


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## wyteberrywidow (Oct 9, 2012)

Dwezelitsame said:


> i have his clockwork orange and sum nice free stuff this year have not busted any yet
> 
> of all the jibberish i have read on him
> no one mentioned that his seeds came to me postmarked from Cali U S of A
> ...


he banned me immediately after registering on his forum.. I was interested in a couple of his crosses since they do ound nice but hey whatever


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## Swerve (Oct 10, 2012)

save your money so many better reliable people out there..that actually have the genetics they say they got. just a kind warning again


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## OGilostmypassword (Oct 10, 2012)

Swerve said:


> save your money so many better reliable people out there..that actually have the genetics they say they got. just a kind warning again


Whats your opinion on peakseedsbc?


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## racerboy71 (Oct 10, 2012)

OGilostmypassword said:


> Whats your opinion on peakseedsbc?


 a good buddy of mine swears by peak seeds m8.. absolutely killer genetics for what you pay according to him, and i hold his opinion rather highly..


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## bestbuds09 (Oct 10, 2012)

OGilostmypassword said:


> Whats your opinion on peakseedsbc?


ive grown seeds from peakseedsbc and they are top notch. as a matter of fact i have one very beautiful northernskunk with red/purple pistols going on now. i would post a pic but shes sleeping now. tomorrow ill post a couple of pics. i love his genetics, not much choice but his gear is fire.....

tomorrow ill post some pics in this thread...... they are in their 3rd week of 12/12 and i have about another 6 weeks left

btw i only work with feminized seeds simply because i dont have much grow room but peakseedsbc is one of about 3-4 breeders i make room for their regular seeds.


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## OGilostmypassword (Oct 10, 2012)

Glad to hear, I have a bunch of their NL, Sweet Skunk & Kushberry going right now with more in the freezer (TWxSkunk, TWxNL, more NL, more SS, Kush x Skunk & more KB seeds as well as their blueberry).

Ordered 2 more packs to get some C99 freebies he's offering folks who do volume orders. I guess they are from the island, one of his customers who he says has done a good job breeding various things has been preserving old bros grimm stock. Excited to see what comes from them.


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## racerboy71 (Oct 10, 2012)

OGilostmypassword said:


> Glad to hear, I have a bunch of their NL, Sweet Skunk & Kushberry going right now with more in the freezer (TWxSkunk, TWxNL, more NL, more SS, Kush x Skunk & more KB seeds as well as their blueberry).
> 
> Ordered 2 more packs to get some C99 freebies he's offering folks who do volume orders. I guess they are from the island, one of his customers who he says has done a good job breeding various things has been preserving old bros grimm stock. Excited to see what comes from them.


 That sounds like my boy, and he's not from the island if it is indeed dizzle, aka, the frost bro's..


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## wyteberrywidow (Oct 10, 2012)

I know exactly who that is but that surprising to hear they are going for freebies whn the breeder is selling them?


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## racerboy71 (Oct 10, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> I know exactly who that is but that surprising to hear they are going for freebies whn the breeder is selling them?


 yah, kind of odd indeed wyte.. might have to go have a chat with d..


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## OGilostmypassword (Oct 10, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> That sounds like my boy, and he's not from the island if it is indeed dizzle, aka, the frost bro's..


Now you have me excited... more than you might imagine. 

Here are the babies currently... some of the Skunk have ridiculously thin leaves. I'm excited.

And he said they were on the island, so who knows. Could just be someone preserving. AKA: Mota. I think he wants to use it for some crosses so these are test runs. He didn't do a true preservation for this he choose his best male/female from the seeds he had and crossed, so it actually isn't what I prefer (I like more selection) but I guess they might be diverse if the genetics aren't very homozygous.


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## OGilostmypassword (Oct 10, 2012)

Can't post a pic in that post for some reason, here they are hpoefully this works.

Hope I didn't start drama, shit. MJ seems like a good guy.


View attachment 2368584


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## bestbuds09 (Oct 11, 2012)

OGilostmypassword said:


> Whats your opinion on peakseedsbc?



heres my lady 3 weeks in. this one is NorthernSkunk from peakseedsbc..........


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## stak (Oct 11, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> he banned me immediately after registering on his forum.. I was interested in a couple of his crosses since they do ound nice but hey whatever


oh man I love karma!! a douchebag on a powertrip unjustifiably banning someone sucks doesn't it?


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## wyteberrywidow (Oct 11, 2012)

stak said:


> oh man I love karma!! a douchebag on a powertrip unjustifiably banning someone sucks doesn't it?


You think I care that I was banned from riots forum? Really lmao I don't. I'm just letting people know what's up with it they can do as they please.

Unlike you


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## DMXAK47 (Oct 19, 2012)

can some one please tell me if he ships world wide or do u really have to have a medical card?


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## Swerve (Oct 20, 2012)

buy from reliable reputable breeders and sites...


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## dat130ysmurf (Oct 20, 2012)

Balzac89 said:


> That guy steals growers pictures and posts them as his plants. Seen it b4, he also carried on discarded genetics from Subcool.


Yeah I seen Black Daliha from riot seeds, it was Black Cherry Soda X Querkle, had hermi probs, so sub didnt release it....... I was quite surprised to see it released from a company other than TGA.....cant believe anyone would try sellin somethin they know is garbage and try takin credit for someone elses scrapped project...... I don't know Matt, nor have I ever grown "riot" genetics, & knowing he's a scam artist I don't wanna know him & wouldn't recommend his gear to anyone.... Just my 2 cents.....


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## wyteberrywidow (Oct 20, 2012)

dat130ysmurf said:


> Yeah I seen Black Daliha from riot seeds, it was Black Cherry Soda X Querkle, had hermi probs, so sub didnt release it....... I was quite surprised to see it released from a company other than TGA.....cant believe anyone would try sellin somethin they know is garbage and try takin credit for someone elses scrapped project...... I don't know Matt, nor have I ever grown "riot" genetics, & knowing he's a scam artist I don't wanna know him & wouldn't recommend his gear to anyone.... Just my 2 cents.....


Seems he has a track record for stealing/using others gear and taking credit for it.. His fame clockwork orange was a seed from greenhouse Alaskan ice and do you see the price differences lol..


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## RedMan420 (Oct 20, 2012)

Yeah riot is saying they have GSC and doing pre sales for seeds that will be ready in Dec??? He is definitely bullshiter and I would never trust his beans.


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## DMXAK47 (Oct 20, 2012)

all i want is the bannana kush


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## dat130ysmurf (Jul 3, 2013)

dat130ysmurf said:


> Yeah I seen Black Daliha from riot seeds, it was Black Cherry Soda X Querkle, had hermi probs, so sub didnt release it....... I was quite surprised to see it released from a company other than TGA.....cant believe anyone would try sellin somethin they know is garbage and try takin credit for someone elses scrapped project...... I don't know Matt, nor have I ever grown "riot" genetics, & knowing he's a scam artist I don't wanna know him & wouldn't recommend his gear to anyone.... Just my 2 cents.....



Just wanted to say.....time to eat a few words......after speaking with matt riot and a few other's that know him personally, he's not a scam artist & I will be buying some RIOT gear....do thorough research on someone's gear and don't just take the word of a few competitor's before writing someone off completely.....


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## stak (Jul 3, 2013)

dat130ysmurf said:


> Just wanted to say.....time to eat a few words......after speaking with matt riot and a few other's that know him personally, *he's not a scam artist* & I will be buying some RIOT gear....do thorough research on someone's gear and don't just take the word of a few competitor's before writing someone off completely.....


I disagree. He definitely scammed me. I ignored the warning signs and took a chance and he took advantage. He is a scam artist.


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## gudkarma (Jul 3, 2013)

^ totally agreed

those little bitches at the "other site" support a total fucking fraud. 

these TSD fags , jb & hippie, two 20 something year old pussies, act like matt riot is some kinda legit breeder.

its totally funny to see a F(ake) A(ss) G(rower) like hippe even called the director of breeder relations. LOL. that little kid owns no lights, grows no dank, & hasnt even gotten pollen on his jeans after cutting the lawn. 

breeder relations? LOL !

dont forget haters from TSD , those fucking assholes came to me in PM to bring them e$ko.

its not like hippie could do it. nor jb.
i brought them a cash cow.

funny thing is bodhi & e$ko sell lots of the beans in their store. 

if it wasnt for someone like me those fucks wouldnt even be making a go at their "biz" ...jb would have to go back and work for gypsy nirvana.

i hope e$ko moves to bigger & better things.

& since they talk SO MUCH SHIT about RIU (troll it up, etc) they come register accounts, stalk it up, and send their pussy boys over here to talk smack. what for? 

a) go look at seedfinder & check riots work load... more stains than strains. get the fuck outta here. not !

b) matt riot : stole images of [email protected]'s work and "published" the shit as his own !

c) matt riot : for sure : absolutely works the pre-order angle to his advantage. he's already KNOWN to gank $ and swap out seeds and bullshit pre-orders.

d) matt riot : was TOTALLY dissed by subcool for what reason ?

dont you know kush king? 

e) matt riot : calls clockwork orange some legendary plant : but its really from a pack of GH alaskan ice beans. what what !

finally, to be a critic on a pro level, i grew out some matt riot myself (swing kid) .... can you say SUCKED DICK ?

=============> this fucking dude comes to get riot's back & aint even grown his hero's beans.


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## Chronic Masterbator (Jul 4, 2013)

So tsd bank isnt trust worthy?? We are talking about the seed depot here right??


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## Vincent VonBlown (Jul 4, 2013)

I met Mr. Riot over at Weed Watch. He seemed like an okay guy. I don't know about his genetic line being good or bad though, as I've never tried it...


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## Vincent VonBlown (Jul 4, 2013)

I'll also make the comment about "other peoples genetics"... If you sell or giveaway your beans or cuts, that's it... You don't own them anymore. So whatever anyone else does with them is fair game...


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Jul 4, 2013)

haha, this is a funny as thread. well at least the last page was. don't know too much of MR, but from what i do know, he's pretty knowledgeable about a lot of strains. however, that doesn't makeup for his shady business. 

dude has been known for jacking many of growers pics to advertise his strains at an exorbitant price, in a not so far history, and if you call that being legit, well you get what you paid for. lets not forget that he was just asking someone on the farm how to clone (let alone breed correctly) shortly before he started to release his beans to the masses for sale.

it seems like every one is recently on the MR train, since he joined the depot, and tend to look the other way about his shady past. no matter how much he's trying to shy away from that light, to me, he will always remain shady in every shape form or fashion. don't get me wrong, people can change, but at least make shit right with those that was wronged before you take on this new role that so he gladly plays.

as for the depot, i fuck with JB and TSD customer Service rep all day long (they get my bread any day of the wk). can't speak for the rest of the crew, they do come off as the phony type, and probably never will.


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## brimck325 (Jul 4, 2013)

lmmfao......... maybe if some of you actually asked him his side of the story, you might have a better understanding of what really went down. be careful though, it will probably knock a few of your hero's off their pedestals.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Jul 4, 2013)

brimck325 said:


> lmmfao......... maybe if some of you actually asked him his side of the story, you might have a better understanding of what really went down. be careful though, it will probably knock a few of your hero's off their pedestals.


haha, well we know who your hero is, lame. since you here speaking up for him, tell us why he posted up other growers pics of other strains that wasn't even his, without permission? oh why you're at it, explain why one minute he was asking for help on how to clone, then shortly after posting up beans for sale?

like i said, no matter how you fanboys dress it up, you can not erase the past.


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## Natural Gas (Jul 4, 2013)

Damnnn...This thread is better than "Real Housewives of San Fernando Valley"...If I want to grow the highest-mightiest; latest-greatest pot drug on the planet I would have to realize it would not be coming from Montsano labs but from some "pollen-chuckin, Pacific Northwest, space cowboy" with two clone cuts and a half gallon jug of colloidal silver...I know I am paying good money for a "Heinz 57 mutt"...The street breeding (lack of pedigree) will create problems that I will need to closely monitor and correct if I want a desirable outcome...Like pinching nuts and figuring out what to feed it...If I wanted to eliminate risk and just catch a buz I would stick with Flying Dutchman "Original Haze"; no problems with that f13...Thanx Matt Riot for WiFi...I had to sort through a couple of your offerings to find "my pheno" but it was worth it...FWIW


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## brimck325 (Jul 4, 2013)

like i said, ask him!!! i never ran his gear and only spoke to him a (very) few times. matt and i have a mutual friend that has told me the good he does for medical patients as well as "normal" growers. do you always take 1 side of "story" and make YOUR mind up! kinda shallow.


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## Fresh 2 [email protected] (Jul 4, 2013)

i go by what i see, and like i said, you can't erase the fact that he advertise someone else's picture under his strain without permission. and what the fuck is he even doing posting a pic of another strain under his strain anyway? am i or anyone else who questions his professionalism suppose to ignore that? are we suppose to give a fuck, because you and him say how much he does or claim to do or have done, when one sees something like that? as far as i am concerned, there is no side of the story when the proof was right in front of my face, no matter how you or him may try to spin it.

also can't ignore (once again, i seen it with my own eyes) dude asking how to clone, then in the (very) near future (some months later) dude was releasing a shit load of strains. i guess there's another side to that one as well, am i right?

i've spoke to Matt myself, in open forum, and he gave me a legitimate reason (if that's what you want to call it) as to why his prices are so high and i could live with his logic; but the rest, like come on jr, it's in black and white. damn, how much of a blind eye you except some individuals to turn?


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## brimck325 (Jul 4, 2013)

is it, i don't know as i've not asked him about it. jr., really? look in a mirror, i prolly been growin before you were born. SHALLOW!


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## Natural Gas (Jul 4, 2013)

Hey Fresh, My guess is that many, not all, folks new to growing want to start "at the top"; the latest hybrid, high test bud they read about with less than two grow experiences to their credit...The folks that PM me buy $1,000 worth of grow gear but don't read a single book on growing first...They have been reading "on-line drivel" like stuff I see posted here on RIU (imho)...It is ok to buy a Ferrari but prudence would suggest you learn how to drive first...Matt and others produce "pieced together hot rods" for a specialty market. Those hot rods are not for the general "Honda Civic" driving public who believe their problems lie with the hot rod not their lack of driving skill...FWIW


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## gudkarma (Jul 4, 2013)

LOLOLOOLLLOLlollololollol !
OMG TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO funny.

no douche bag. i popped in to PM some homies , pass around some gear, put up a few posts, and talk to e$ko.

sure i fucked around for a few.

unlike you, and 100% FACT, i always add good content where ever i go.

but even better & more along the lines of my motivation, i got to totally diss your boyfriend KAB ...THE uber fag. AND I"LL BE BACK TO DO IT AGAIN !

shit your boy KAB came through RIU last week to put up a new post just about ~gud

who's a weasel now?

fruit cake , LOL !
douche boy, e$ko & i, we been friends for YEARS & talk on the regs.

i got an open invite to his house, we talk about wife, life, and family, & dude runs gear i sent him looking for keepers.
*
who sent e$ko "red heri fruit bud x shoreline" which dude loves, put up many posts about, mentions the connection to me (even recently) and will breed with that strain in the future ?*

==============> not you TSD cum swallower

shit, idiot, im running 3 different tests for him right now. you ever even run an e$ko bean ?

NO WAIT YOU"LL RUN MATT RIOT FIRST !!!!!! straight corny.

somebody gotta do the work cause e$ko sure aint gonna ask you growing in a hobbit's tent & all with only one light

even better, look at you girls stalking around the internet serving up faggotry for TSD.

LOL !

even more better, i know everything from jb's deal with e$ko, his profit margins, how many seeds are sold, and more.

yo yo yo .... check this :

after i dissed you gay boyfriend KAB (and I REPAEAT ill be back doing it again FOR SURE) jb finds e$ko in a private chat we use... and begs him to ask me to stop.

BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !

jb is telling e$ko shit like :why is ~gud doing this to us : why doe s~gud want us outta biz : and more !

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL !

the weasel is who ?


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## gudkarma (Jul 4, 2013)

matt riot is a fraud.

period.

*he even evokes some connex to bodhi like they tight. FAKERY !

^ maybe matt riot will knock that pollen chucker off his pedestal ?*

& did you tell that contradicting asshole "monster drank" about your hatred for subby ?
^ i mean drank only worships subby's gear... weed nerd for life and all 
^^ i mean there is a valid conex between he & sub & an even greater fuckwad move by riot.

now you look like an idiot who knows very little.

go post about what gear you're buying in the TSD seed collector thread.
^ which those TSD douches had to gank from here. 

RIU is so terrible yet the brain trust @ TSD even robs an idea/thread created by hempsted !

why is that?


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## gudkarma (Jul 4, 2013)

can you please ask hippie for me why he was chat/PMing me every day (50x a day) to buy seeds ?

i mean you must be MAJOR biz savvy to move to spain, fuck that up, and have to move back to the UK.

reeks of smarts.
22 year old boys with avatars that make them "look" distinguished.
^ yeah they been true to the game a few months to years for many of us. lol.

& if e$ko thinks im such a fruit cake he just sent me :
you he sends nothing !
you he dont even know !
you he couldnt care less about !

& me... i sent out more beans FREE to people , gave away more cuts , & even grow gear .... for trade & for absolutely NOTHING.

totally free.
even this week.
an easy 60 e$ko beans given out for nothing more than weed & weasel love. 

people should grow the best. there are lots of good seed companies out there.

so i grow ultimately for myself.

& i grew swing kid & it SUCKED.

& & i got purple og (fem) & i'll give it to you any of you riot dick riders FREE... but you wouldnt grow it anyway !

& & & you ? mr. canna awesome , what you do for anybody ?

NADA


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## Chronic Masterbator (Jul 4, 2013)

I personally vouche for Gud he's legit.


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## greenghost420 (Jul 4, 2013)

damn that sucks hes a cocksucker scamming thief...i was just looking at his site and he got some crazy shit! too good to be true...even swerve is on this thread talking shit about riot. riot must be a bitch is swerve is serving him. lol


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## Jogro (Jul 4, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> damn that sucks hes a cocksucker scamming thief...i was just looking at his site and he got some crazy shit! too good to be true...even swerve is on this thread talking shit about riot. riot must be a bitch is swerve is serving him. lol


IMO Riot is the prototypical "pollen chucker" and he charges way too much for his gear. 

On the first thing, most of his catalog consists of just S1s or F1s from popular/clone only lines. In fact, just looking at his catalog, one gets the distinct impression that just about all of his "strains" are actually just one-off crosses of various clones he's acquired. 

That's "OK" in the sense that starting with top genetics, many of these crosses will result in excellent (even if untested and unstable) offspring. But merely selfing plants or crossing them isn't really "breeding" in any sense of the term. When a guy has only been in the business for a few years, but is offering 30+ different lines you KNOW there is no possible way he's "worked" any of them, let alone worked them with good selection for 6-8 generations to create some sort of actual "strain".

I don't even have a problem with this sort of pollen chucking, so long as the seller actually uses the clones they say they were using, and is upfront about what they did. But this kind of simple one-off crossing isn't technically demanding, nor does it take a lot of time, and there is no way it justifies Riot's top dollar asking price. 

As one example I'm aware of, until he sold out, Riot was charging $140 for a six pack of Green Crack S1 (and that was the "on sale" price). That's $23.33/ceed. He's still asking the same price for a bunch of other F1s with Green Crack as one parent (eg Green Crack x Blue Dream, GC x Bubba Kush, GC x Girl Scout Cookes, etc), not to mention a number of other F1s with other clone only parents. 

Disregarding everything else about the guy or the actual quality of the gear, more than $20 a pop is a HUGE amount of money for ANY ceed. Its an insane amount for what is effectively an unstable self-cross of a widely available "clone only" strain that this guy had nothing whatsover to do with creating, spreading, or popularizing. 

Sickmeds from Spain charges only $76 for a ten pack of the exact same Green Crack S1s; that's $7.60/seed which is almost exactly 1/3 the price per bean compared to Riot. 

As another comparison, a 6 pack of fem Kosher Kush from Reserva Privada only costs $91. That's $15.25/ceed, which is still pretty high, but you're paying it for a recent multiple award winning strain from a top "name" breeding house, one of the most respected in the business right now. And its still 1/3 less than what Riot was charging for just this line and many of his others.


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## greenghost420 (Jul 4, 2013)

On his site i thought packs of regs were 10 packs,thats absolute rape!


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## Jogro (Jul 4, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> On his site i thought packs of regs were 10 packs,thats absolute rape!


His fems come in six packs. 

Note that if you're just selfing a female clone only plant, or doing an F1 cross between two of them, all the created ceeds from this cross will necessarily be feminized. There is no way to cross two female plants to create male ones. 

To me the term "rape", implies lack of consent. In Riot's defense, he can ask anything he likes for his gear; nobody is forcing anyone to do business with the guy. 

IMO, it simply doesn't make sense to pay what he's asking, when you can get similar "pollen chuck" ceeds for a fraction of the price elsewhere, or alternatively pay somewhat less for absolutely top level genetics from established top level breeders.


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## brimck325 (Jul 4, 2013)

for someone that hates tsd and quite a few of the people over there, you sure do keep very close tabs on everyone.


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## greenghost420 (Jul 4, 2013)

its rape in the date rape sense, the kind of rape where you still love the person after lol


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## Jogro (Jul 4, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> its rape in the date rape sense, the kind of rape where you still love the person after lol


In this case, I prefer the term "rip off", as in "$150 a pack for an S1 pollen chuck? What a ripoff!"

I'm not knocking the actual genetics; at least some of them do look sort of interesting, just in my opinion not nearly enough so to justify the astronomical asking prices. 

Apart from the pricing issue, I find it hard to "love" Riot on account of his persistent unprofessional behavior. 

Oh. . .apparently ALL his strains come in six-packs including regs. Per his "terms of service":



> ALL Seeds are 6 Seeds per pack, as we've done the last 7 years.


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## gudkarma (Jul 4, 2013)

brimck325 said:


> for someone that hates tsd and quite a few of the people over there, you sure do keep very close tabs on everyone.


keeping tabs, no.

the word is "friends"... & i got many.

plus im a fiend for content analysis. 

as far as how you think i keep "tabs", my memory for the written word is near photographic.
i never forget anything i've read. ever. 

so, i can remember 1000s of posts & comments & articles & books.


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## gudkarma (Jul 5, 2013)

if you cant trust a guy... you cant trust the crosses made.

look at riot. 
you trust this guy uses the genetics he claims? 
especially when he's proven himself a fraud who lies about what he does.

& if you add the insanely potent logic Jogro just dropped... you'd be crazy to invest one nickle with that clown.


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## colonuggs (Jul 5, 2013)

well I know he got my pre98 and ecsd for his chemdog91 and another strain ...but when I got the cuts they came with mites

he has good genetics...acquired from me and a few others


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## gudkarma (Jul 5, 2013)

me.
i've never seen a cross with bubba that had ZERO "genetic essence" of bubba. 

none.

swing kid : chem d x bubba

if you ask me, i believe , i grew a chem S1.


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## greenghost420 (Jul 5, 2013)

one of the ones that had me most interested was the 98 bubba. lol


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## Jogro (Jul 5, 2013)

colonuggs said:


> well I know he got my pre98 and ecsd for his chemdog91 and another strain ...but when I got the cuts they came with mites
> 
> he has good genetics...acquired from me and a few others


Would you care to recount for the board, the circumstances in which you sent Riot these cuts?
That might be interesting. 




gudkarma said:


> if you cant trust a guy... you cant trust the crosses made.
> 
> look at riot.
> you trust this guy uses the genetics he claims?
> especially when he's proven himself a fraud who lies about what he does.


Personally, whenever possible I try to avoid doing business with known BS artists. Not just Riot, but also several others in the game who are cut from the same cloth. Again, there are so many good breeders out there with good genetics nowadays, that there is just no need to get involved with these sorts. 

That said, we know the guy actually has (or had) access to "elite" clone only lines (eg see above). I don't have any reason to believe that he's not actually using these in his pollen chucks. 

With respect to Green Crack S1, I've seen pictures from a grow report on his beans, and the plants looked similar to the ones I've grown myself from Sickmeds (or at least as similar as you're going to get with an unstable hybrid S1 like this). If you take out the profanity and hyperbole, his description of the line was reasonable. So based on my experience here, I'd say at least in this case, the beans seemed to be what he claimed. 

Doesn't mean it makes sense to pay over $20 a bean for these or other similar unworked hybrids, but that's a different topic covered above. 

As to why his Bubba cross had "zero essence" of Bubba, I don't know. Maybe as you suggest the cross was a deliberate fraud that contained no actual Bubba genetics. Maybe it was just sloppy breeding practice where Riot accidentally switched some pollen, beans, or labels along the way. That's still pretty bad, but its at least a bit different than intentional fraud. 

Or maybe it was just a shi#$y cross. That's the problem with pollen chucks. Instead of getting the best traits from each parent in the offspring, sometimes when you do crosses like this, you end up with the worst. Its almost invariable that F1 or S1 ceeds made from clone only lines end up worse than EITHER parent. If it were that easy to make "elite clone" quality ceeds, there would be no need for "clone only" lines and no such thing. The best you can realistically hope for are some good phenos that approximate some of the better traits from the parent(s), and in something like a pack of only six beans, you have to assume that you're probably NOT going to find them in any given pack.


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## colonuggs (Jul 5, 2013)

Jogro said:


> Would you care to recount for the board, the circumstances in which you sent Riot these cuts?
> That might be interesting.


its was about 2 yrs ago over on potpimp....he sent me 2 cuts I sent him 2 cuts back...back then he was still collecting strains

I met some really cool peeps on potpimp before the shit hit the fan... the US guys are pretty cool and a few of the UK bros are too

Got me the Exo cheese from the UK thanks to that site


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## tags420 (Jul 5, 2013)

Interesting read here. 
He hit me up on TSD because I have BlackBerrySoda and know the breeder, which riot got double purple dojo from. He seemed to know his shit pretty well. This was just like a month ago. I had never heard of or about him before that. He wanted to trade beans, I said I would let him know and just kinda faded out. After reading all this it surprised me but good thing I'm lazy and didn't want to deal with him I guess.


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## dat130ysmurf (Jul 9, 2013)

For the record I wasn't sent here by anyone for any reason....Nor did I come here to start any $#!T.......I'm not a fanboy of matt riot or his gear, but I will at least give the guy a chance.....I do appreciate all the warnings, so if I get scammed it's my own fault and I'll let it be known, same goes if not....something else I can say is one thing that made me decide to give Riot gear a chance is the fact that *Bodhi* posted at "the other site" in TSCT (page 2174, post 21734) that matt's one of the good guys.........at the end of the day we've all made mistakes, some bigger than others and everyone deserves not only A chance but a SECOND chance.....


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## greenghost420 (Jul 9, 2013)

damn what a contrast ....bodhi has 12 beans for 65 while riots is 160 for 6...


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## greenghost420 (Jul 9, 2013)

what did u try smurf?


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## medicalguy508 (Jul 9, 2013)

Well I dont no what matt riot charges all I no is all they take is credit cards and that leaves your credit card number in who knows who's hands. But as far as the price even if you get one keeper and you get 2 ounces off it on the low side the pack of seeds paid for themself. Seed prices are irelevent because most of the time they pay for themselfs over and over again so dont let the price blind you!! If you get 4 females out of a pack of 10 seeds your looking at 8 ounces thats 3200.00 worth of buds at 300 a ounce I myself dont like feminized seeds due to hermie issues even the best breeders have this problem with fem seeds. Just trying to help not downing your post




Jogro said:


> In this case, I prefer the term "rip off", as in "$150 a pack for an S1 pollen chuck? What a ripoff!"
> 
> I'm not knocking the actual genetics; at least some of them do look sort of interesting, just in my opinion not nearly enough so to justify the astronomical asking prices.
> 
> ...


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## Jogro (Jul 9, 2013)

medicalguy508 said:


> Seed prices are irelevent because most of the time they pay for themselfs over and over again so dont let the price blind you!!


So if your weed is worth $3200, would you pay $50/ceed?
How about $1000/ceed?
At what point is it too much?

I agree that compared to cost of your setup, energy, nutes, and your time, the cost of ceeds may be relatively small. The more you're growing, the less important the ceed cost is compared to everything else. But there is still a fundamental value proposition there. 

Regardless of the street value of the final product, why should anyone pay more for ceeds than they have to?

Even if I can afford to spend $500/bean, doesn't mean it makes sense to do so. Again, Riot can charge whatever he likes. . . I have no problem with him ASKING top dollar for his lines. But I'm not willing to PAY top dollar for them, until/unless I believe they are better than almost everything else out there, which in this case, I simply don't. If I can get equivalent quality genetics for a fraction of the price, why shouldn't I? 



> If you get 4 females out of a pack of 10 seeds your looking at 8 ounces thats 3200.00 worth of buds at 300 a ounce


Pretty sure 8 x $300 is $2400 (not $3200). Also, for what its worth, Riot's packs are 6 ceeds each. Presumably the feminized ones will give you 6 females. 

These details aside, and much more important, the whole reason you're growing yourself is so that you DON'T have to pay $300/ounce. That's a prohibition retail price, not a realistic cost for a medical grower who is growing purely for personal use. If you're not selling, the "street value" is irrelevant. 

If you're looking at this from a simple business marginal cost perspective, with any given grow, your setup, lights, and nute costs will all be roughly the same and fixed. In other words, no matter which stain you grow, you're going to be using roughly the same amount of lights, nutes, etc. Since other costs of the grow are effectively fixed, the ceed cost is one of the only ones you can control. As a related matter, if you're growing only 1-2 small plants for personal use, the ceed cost can be a significant fraction of the overall cost. 

Bottom line is, I think it DOES matter if you're paying $7/ceed vs $23/ceed, and depending on how deep your pockets are, it can matter a LOT. If you're working on a limited budget, you can potentially get several packs of good to excellent ceeds for the same cost as one from Riot.


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## Jogro (Jul 9, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> damn what a contrast ....bodhi has 12 beans for 65 while riots is 160 for 6...


Best way to normalize this is to look at per-ceed cost. 

Riot is charging over $20/bean for his feminized ceeds. Note that typically feminized ceeds cost double what regulars do. IMO, they "shouldn't", but they do. 

Bodhi is charging $5.40/bean. 

Sannie has some good lines for $30/ 10 pack, or only $3/bean, and he typically throws in a few freebies too, at least offsetting shipping charges.


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## colonuggs (Jul 9, 2013)

shit I remember on the Farm about a year ago....some starfighter seeds went for $350 a bean


I have a cut to one from a bro in Michigan  Some serious Creeper weed....he paid like $200 a bean... got 4


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## eyeball696 (Jul 10, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> damn that sucks hes a cocksucker scamming thief...i was just looking at his site and he got some crazy shit! too good to be true...even swerve is on this thread talking shit about riot. riot must be a bitch is swerve is serving him. lol


Wow that many jealous people in here? I run a lot of riot strains. So fucking what if he's not on attitude or single seed. You sub par growers are just to ignorant to know there is hermie tendencies in s1 genetics. YouTube purple bubba crack and other strains. Some people don't even know what a female hair or male sack looks like anyway. Only a small % of growers even know what's really going on. The others are lead around by people claiming to be the shit or to have the shit. Either way my genetics come from Cali & not no Cali connection. Just like Matthew Riot say
"Fuck the haters" or in another words.
You will never have what I have..


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## gudkarma (Jul 10, 2013)

^ here's a thread you put up fake a$$ : 

https://www.rollitup.org/drain-waste-hydro/687750-coco-flush-questions-advanced-growers.html#post9310773

the expert is who ?

& just like ~gud been saying , "let me see your riot gear."

cause you grows none !


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## dat130ysmurf (Jul 10, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> what did u try smurf?


Haven't actually gotten to try any riot gear myself yet.....I've browsed his gear a bit and it all looks dank, but as stated by other's that's a HIGH ticket for a FEW beans, and most of what I seen that I would consider is out of stock...until I do get a chance to try his gear I'll be watchin grow logs of his gear at "the other site"


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## colonuggs (Jul 10, 2013)

eyeball696 said:


> Wow that many jealous people in here? I run a lot of riot strains. So fucking what if he's not on attitude or single seed. You sub par growers are just to ignorant to know there is hermie tendencies in s1 genetics. YouTube purple bubba crack and other strains. Some people don't even know what a female hair or male sack looks like anyway. Only a small % of growers even know what's really going on. The others are lead around by people claiming to be the shit or to have the shit. Either way my genetics come from Cali & not no Cali connection. Just like Matthew Riot say
> "Fuck the haters" or in another words.
> You will never have what I have..


UMMM.... actually Riot's gear was on Attitude's menu......they were selling his beans

Guess why its no longer is...peoples feedback and issues with the gear.....the Tude dropped him


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## gudkarma (Jul 10, 2013)

^ not really

subcool told the management @ the tude' something like : if they keep carrying riot gear he was gonna ditch them.

ceeds vs tga thongs 

i think riot was planning to market something with sub genetics or maybe even had a [pollen chuck] project with sub & put that out via the 'tude.

more genetic thievery on the part of , & as bodhi noted , "one of the good guys in the game".


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## colonuggs (Jul 10, 2013)

hahaha...subcool everyones gear is always better than the next guys  none of these guys were even around a couple years ago...

anybody who is a breeder starts with other peoples gear to make beans......you cant say they dont


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## gudkarma (Jul 10, 2013)

learning to appreciate some of sub's gear more every day.

its hard for me.
& my black, coal like , heart.


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## gudkarma (Jul 10, 2013)

& i'll never ride the wave.
& always have my own opinion.
& always grow even if the internet went black tomorrow.

y'all can have ur own opinions.
i say, its respectable wither way.
long as your data is proper.

i grew dude. 
some people supporting this guy (riot) , never even cracked his beans.


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## greenghost420 (Jul 10, 2013)

basically if i grow riots gear, ill most likely buy beans from whoever he stole that current cross/s1 from. i saw sub was mad that he was selling a hermie prone strain tga tested and failed. how nice to know that he prob charged up thru the ass compared to sub...


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## blissfest (Jul 10, 2013)

No such thing as stealing someone's gear, they sold it to me, and nobody owns it anyway, LOL!

Some of these so-called breeders that get butt hurt over someone using their so-called genetics is fuckin laughable. Where do you think they got their shit from, someone else, LMFAO!

I am using Rare Dankness, Bodhi, DNA, Reserva Privada, Raskal, and Alien's gear to make a lot of crosses and S1's in the near future. 

Plus I have 3 of Riot's cookie crosses and if I find an excellent plant I will use that too.


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## eyeball696 (Jul 10, 2013)

You can't buy black cherry soda but I'm selling clones of it. Does that make me an ass too?


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## greenghost420 (Jul 10, 2013)

No trading or selling allowed on the site m8


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## eyeball696 (Jul 10, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> basically if i grow riots gear, ill most likely buy beans from whoever he stole that current cross/s1 from. i saw sub was mad that he was selling a hermie prone strain tga tested and failed. how nice to know that he prob charged up thru the ass compared to sub...


Stole???
What did he break in his room steal his genetics? Please your a moron for even talking. Call your mom


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## greenghost420 (Jul 10, 2013)

at the very least the pics he stole ...


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## eyeball696 (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok ill entertain this one alitttle longer. Explain how. He break into his house or collective? NOBODY owns a plant . What now because I sell black cherry soda clones I should kick back some to subcool?


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## Jogro (Jul 10, 2013)

eyeball696 said:


> Wow that many jealous people in here?


Honestly, I couldn't care less about Riot or his gear. If he can get suckers to pay $23 for his S1s or mutts, good for him. 

Not wanting to pay 2-3x the market price for his ceeds doesn't make me "jealous", it just makes me "sane". 




> I run a lot of riot strains. So fucking what if he's not on attitude or single seed.


Good for you. 

I agree his current distribution isn't necessarily a reflection on the quality of his genetics, but you do raise a good point. 

If Riot is cutting out the middlemen and selling his beans directly to the public (which he is) rather than through banks, then his gear should cost quite a bit LESS than the competition, not more. 



> You sub par growers are just to ignorant to know there is hermie tendencies in s1 genetics


Your juvenile insults aside, I've grown Sickmeds Green Crack S1 multiple times now, and never seen so much as one banana. 

But if, as you say, S1s are hermie-prone, *then why on earth should anyone pay top dollar to Riot for these?*



> Just like Matthew Riot say "Fuck the haters" or in another words. You will never have what I have..


Now THAT'S funny, coming from a guy who sources all his genetics from other people!

What exactly is it that Riot has that nobody else has? Blue Dream S1s that don't compare to the original and go hermie at the drop of a hat?

Looks to me like the guy has the same Green Crack, OG Kush, GSC, GDP and other "name" clone strains that all the breeders and lots of private growers have.


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## racerboy71 (Jul 10, 2013)

Hey eyeball while I tend to agree with you about no one owning genetics.. would you mind keeping the personal insults to yourself please and thank you..


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## Jogro (Jul 10, 2013)

eyeball696 said:


> Ok ill entertain this one alitttle longer. Explain how. He break into his house or collective? NOBODY owns a plant you fucktard. What now because I sell black cherry soda clones I should kick back some to subcool? Your a real retard and not just like the ones in movies


Ever heard of "honor"? There is a code of ethics that applies here, though clearly not everyone chooses to follow it. 

You can sell all the cuts of "Black cherry Soda" you like, so long as you say they're "Black Cherry Soda". But if you call these cuts "eyeball pie" and claim you've bred the line yourself, you're crossing the line. No, you won't go to "jail" for this, but that doesn't make it right or ethical, and you shouldn't be surprised if the original breeders give you the hairy eyeball if you choose to do this. 

Should you be paying royalties to Subcool for selling cuts of his strain? 

Legally speaking, you aren't obligated to; at least not now because these sorts of strains can't be patented. But if you were talking about, say, a specially bred strain of tomatoes or some other plant Subcool potentially could have patented it, and if so, damn right you'd owe him royalties if you were selling seeds or clones of his creation. 

Ditto for trademark. Right now, illegal drug strain names aren't able to be trademarked under Federal case law. Therefore anyone can call anything they like "Subcools Black Cherry Soda" (legit or not) and sell it, and there isn't anything Subcool can legally do to stop it. But just because you "can" do this, doesn't make it right. 

If you tried this with "Dr. Brown's Cherry Soda" (ie the actual beverage) mixing up your own version of their drink and calling it "Dr Browns", they'd have a legal course of action against you. Why shouldn't this be true with cannabis strains that people have spent time and money developing? 

On breeding, obviously EVERYONE has to start somewhere, and since cannabis has "only" been selectively bred by humans for 10,000 years, everyone is going to be starting with a line worked for centuries by people before. Unless you're literally going to feral or wild cannabis strains to start with, ALL breeders MUST start with other people's lines. 

But there is a "right" way and a wrong way to go about this. 

Its perfectly fine to start with other people's genetics, cross them, make your own line and sell the ceeds. The honorable ones who do this will correctly attribute the parents, if asked. Its perfectly fine to sell S1s of "clone only" lines too, especially when in many cases the origins of those lines are uncertain (so you can't really attribute them even if you wanted to). 

What's NOT OK, is to take someone else's highly worked or inbred line, from a project they may have worked on for several years at great expense and/or personal risk, knock off a few bags of F1 ceeds, then sell the resultant beans as the same "name" line, or (maybe worse) just rename the line and take credit for developing it. Of course there are plenty of "breeders" who do this very thing every single day, but its about as close to theft of intellectual property as you're going to see in this game. 

Again, just because there is no law against it, doesn't make it "right".


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## eyeball696 (Jul 10, 2013)

Well I think it's insulting that you and all of these chronies are calling riot a thief because he's able to s1 rare and potent genetics. While these s1's are controversial because of hermie tendencies its up to the grower to identify these cause not all s1 are gonna be hermies. Most growers don't even know what a male sack looks like. That's scary


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## blissfest (Jul 10, 2013)

Black Cherry Soda cut isn't Subcool's creation.


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## Jogro (Jul 10, 2013)

racerboy71 said:


> Hey eyeball while I tend to agree with you about no one owning genetics.. would you mind keeping the personal insults to yourself please and thank you..


I agree with you about leaving invective out of this. 

On ownership of genetics, in my opinion the subject is a bit more complex than a blanket statement that "no one owns them". 

Yes, right now, nobody has legal ownership of ordinary drug cannabis genetics. 

I'd also agree that nobody can really lay claim to individual cannabis traits (eg pine flavor, purple color, etc), since most of these are widely spread around, and virtually never truly developed by any one individual. From the earlier post, Subcool can't really say "I own Black Cherry Soda (or whatever) and nobody else is allowed to clone it, sell it, or breed with it". Well. . he can say it. . .but since there is no practical mechanism for him to enforce the ownership in this case, its basically hot air. 

With respect to Riot, I have zero problem with him appropriating "clone only" or even commercial lines, crossing them, making S1s, or breeding with them in any way he chooses, so long as he's fundamentally honest about the genetics of the final product. 

For example, if you know you're breeding with thing "A", but you claim you're breeding with thing "B", that's fraud, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with "stealing" the genetics per se, but just how you represent your product. Same as claiming a strain is 20% THC, when the reality is, its only 14%, or you truly have no idea since you've never tested it. In Riots case, I know he's been caught lifting other people's IMAGES of plants, which is unethical at best. 

These things said, speaking for myself, I have no problem in principle with someone who truly develops a novel strain or novel genetics, obtaining LIMITED patent protection on their development. For example, if someone spends $400,000 and three years developing a particular unique strain that has an exactly 1:1:1 THC:CBD:THCV ratio, and if they can show that they were the first one to do it with nothing else out there like it, I think its only fair to award them 7 years patent protection on that line, so that anyone else who uses it has to pay them royalties. 

I know a lot of people disagree with this approach, but that's how its done with a wide variety of plants now, including apples, grains, etc. 

If you want breeders to put in the huge expense and amount of work necessary to develop really new unique and/or outstanding medical strains, then giving them sole ability to commercially exploit these developments for a few years is one powerful incentive for encouraging this sort of work. Nobody is going to spend the money on test-driven selective breeding and/or DNA-based genetic selection, if after they've done all the hard work to create a truly outstanding new strain, any idiot with a $10 cloner can come along and legally knock off 100 copies at will! 

Its exactly this kind of thing that kept "Girl Scout Cookies" and others bottled up as tightly held clone-only strains for so long.


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## blissfest (Jul 10, 2013)

Subcool has nothing to do with the Black Cherry Soda cut, he just used it in a cross, LOL!


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## racerboy71 (Jul 10, 2013)

My problem with say ownership of cannabis genetics jogro is that a very large percent of today's genetics all stem froma very small gene pool..
Let's just say skunk #1 .. northern lights ( any number).. haze.. and let's say a land race kush like Afghani or w/e you prefer for this ex..
Say the of breeders of skunk #1 or the breeder of NLS were able to trademark their strains.. where would we have been in the late 80's and early 90's since these were all the back bone of many a breeding project?
I do get what you mean about someone getting ripped off for all their hard work.. I really do.. but at the same x so long as you give credit to the of breeder of a strain you use in your breeding project.. I don't really see an issue there as there's not much more one can do considering the illegality of cannabis at this time..
My biggest fear is when and if cannabis becomes fully legal and big pharma and tobacco co's jump in feet first the first thing they're going to want to do is trade mark cannabis strains.. where will small breeders be at if this were to occur ? Surel they aren't going to have d $$$ needed to pay for use of a trade marked strain in their work and the only one who will be allowed to grow and sell let's just say Newport og will be lorilard ..
Just seems like a very slippery and dangerous slope and one I really hope not to see cannabis go down..


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## Jogro (Jul 10, 2013)

blissfest said:


> Black Cherry Soda cut isn't Subcool's creation.


Sorry if I put that out there mistakenly. . .that was what I inferred from Eyeballs post. 

I was just using it as an example, by the way. I'm not picking on Subcool here, and this could be any cut or line by any breeder. 



eyeball696 said:


> Well I think it's insulting that you and all of these chronies are calling riot a thief because he's able to s1 rare and potent genetics. While these s1's are controversial because of hermie tendencies its up to the grower to identify these cause not all s1 are gonna be hermies. Most growers don't even know what a male sack looks like. That's scary


With due respect, except for the stupidest of new growers, "most growers" can sex their plants just fine. 

Everyone with any degree of experience growing knows firsthand what male plants look like, and those who lack it can find out with just a few seconds search on either the internet or any one of a dozen published books on cannabis cultivation available at any bookstore. 

On Riot, I didn't call him a thief, just a "pollen chucker". 

Some of his genetics are rare. . .some aren't so rare. (eg you can source a cut of Green Crack/Dream Queen at any CA dispensary for a few bucks nowadays). "Rare" doesn't always mean "good". 

Yes, Riot is good at getting his hands on cuts of clone only lines, but bluntly that's not as difficult as it once was, due to the groundswell of legal MMJ States and boards like this one. If you make the right contacts, these things can be done. 

But trading racehorses isn't the same thing as breeding them. 

Again, there is no trick to making an S1 of any clone only line. . .the hardest part of the process is just getting the cut. 

In any case, S1s of clone only lines are almost invariably inferior to the original. If it were possible to easily replicate clone only lines into ceed form by self-pollinating them, there simply wouldn't be such a thing as a "clone only line", since anyone with any cut of anything could easily make as many ceeds as they liked and pass them around. Its not just increased tendency for hermies, but also in most cases, significant pheno variation, to the point where no two ceeds from a pack of S1s look like either each other OR the parent clone only plant!

The same is true of F1s between two different clone only lines. There is no breeding skill involved in doing that either, and in most cases, simply crossing two "elite" clones throws off a variety of hybrid plants that are inferior to either parent. 

The "trick" there is doing repeated selection and crosses over many generation to isolate and stabilize the desired traits from each of the two parents. That takes quite a bit of skill and hard work, explaining why pollen chuckers like Riot don't offer many beans beyond F1s.


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## blissfest (Jul 10, 2013)

Please list all the actual educated "Breeders" that you know of. Breeders that went to college and studied Botany.

Shanti is the only one that I can think of off hand,

Subcool is about as UNEDUCATED a breeder as one can get, he even admits it, which I respect.

These guys like Swerve and Raskal, ect, just started growing not that long ago, they are just stoners that wanted in the game, they're not real breeders

Its strange that some of you guys look at todays "Breeders" and think they are God like people? Many of these guys started in a closet, Moms basement, a small Cab grow, ect. It would probably surprise you that many may not even graduated from High School.


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## Jogro (Jul 10, 2013)

racerboy71 said:


> My problem with say ownership of cannabis genetics jogro is that a very large percent of today's genetics all stem froma very small gene pool..
> Let's just say skunk #1 .. northern lights ( any number).. haze.. and let's say a land race kush like Afghani or w/e you prefer for this ex..


Well lets be clear about what we are talking about here, because there are two things:

There is PATENT, which is legal protection of a plants GENETICS. 
And there is TRADEMARK, which is legal protection of a plants BRAND NAME. 

Right now, nobody can TRADEMARK any drug cannabis name in the USA. So anyone can call anything they like "Racerboy's Green" and sell it as such. Not so good for you, if you've spent ten years of your life breeding that line and currently make your living selling it. 

PATENT, protects a lines genetics. So even if you were to Trademark your strain "Racerboy's Green", if the genetics weren't patented, I could still snip a clone, rename it "JoGro's Gold" then sell as many cuts as I liked. Think of Coca-Cola. . .nobody else can use the name "Coca-Cola" on their beverage, because its trademarked. However, Coke keeps the secret recipe locked up in a vault because its not patentable. . .if I find out what's in there, I can whip up an exact clone of it called "JoGro cola" and sell as much as I like. 

Patents are powerful things for those that hold them, but there are two very significant limiting factors:

First of all, a patent can't be issued on something that isn't new. So Skunk #1, Northern lights, etc. . .all these genetics have been around for 20+ years, and none should be patentable now. More important, hybrids derived from these also wouldn't be patentable, because all these things have been widely hybridized already and the hybrids are in common use. Assuming this to be true, with *maybe* the exception of some of the CBD-strains, pretty much NONE of the current crop of drug strains would be patentable. 

The only way a cannabis strain is going to be patentable is if its really something uniquely different. EG, someone comes up with a mutant with a weird leaf shape, or a truly novel cannabinoid profile. 

Next restriction, plant patents in particular have a fairly short life. . .only 20 years from the patent application. So again, even if Skunk #1, NL#5, etc, were patented (which they probably couldn't be), their patents would have expired by now. 



> My biggest fear is when and if cannabis becomes fully legal and big pharma and tobacco co's jump in feet first the first thing they're going to want to do is trade mark cannabis strains.. where will small breeders be at if this were to occur ? Surel they aren't going to have d $$$ needed to pay for use of a trade marked strain in their work and the only one who will be allowed to grow and sell let's just say Newport og will be lorilard ..


See above. Trademark isn't patent. . .these are different things. 

I have ZERO problem with Lorillard trademarking "Newport OG" and being the only one to sell pre-rolled cigarettes under that name. So long as the content genetics aren't patented, anyone else can sell the exact same cigarettes with the exact same buds inside. . .just under a different brand name. Trademarking really only protects brand identity. . .that can be tremendously helpful, but only if there is a brand identity to protect!

One real fear that people have is that like with websites, a few early entrepeneurs will trademark widely recognized strain names, and then either exploit, or even just "squat" on them. 

EG, I run to the trademark office and register White Widow, Skunk, Haze, Northern Lights, "OG", "Diesel", "Kush", Panama Red, Acapulco Gold, etc. In fact, this WAS tried, but a Federal judge ruled that illegal cannabis strain names can't hold trademark. Should Federal legalization occur, I'd imagine a similar Judge would rule under existing precedent that names that are already in wide general use like all of the above, can't be trademarked. 



> Say the of breeders of skunk #1 or the breeder of NLS were able to trademark their strains.. where would we have been in the late 80's and early 90's since these were all the back bone of many a breeding project?


See above.

Trademarking the names would probably be a GOOD thing, since then you wouldn't have fifty generic "breeders" selling genetically unrelated bunk ceeds called "Skunk" or "Northern lights" as you now do. 

I don't think the genetics in question would have been patentable, but bluntly, I'm not even remotely familiar with the case law in this area, so I can't say anything insightful here. What I can say is that I believe that in general patent protection makes better genetics MORE likely, not LESS likely, since it offers protection and support to the best breeders and offers them a stronger incentive to develop successful lines.


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## greenghost420 (Jul 10, 2013)

eyeball696 said:


> Ok ill entertain this one alitttle longer. Explain how. He break into his house or collective? NOBODY owns a plant . What now because I sell black cherry soda clones I should kick back some to subcool?


can i see the unedited quote?


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## greenghost420 (Jul 10, 2013)

i respectfully apologize for that post violating rules. i havent read the terms and rules yet...  i was like wth, i dont say mate!kiss-asssorry riu...


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## tags420 (Jul 10, 2013)

Sunni is the creator of black cherry soda. Sunni and my mentor(PG) were buddies and he gave him theses. The cut that is floating around is from this stock, bean #18 to be exact.



^^^Blkberry (clone) x BlackCherrySoda(male). These beans are what riot hit me up to trade for. He honestly knew his shit as far as genetics. I know nothing about his business practices, but he was educated and knew origins of strains and history very well. 

Sub used a cut of a female pure BCS line. But Sunni has the BCS line in beans. 

And Riot uses double purple dojo...an other of sunni's creations. And matt gives him credit.


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## Jogro (Jul 10, 2013)

blissfest said:


> Please list all the actual educated "Breeders" that you know of. Breeders that went to college and studied Botany.


I don't know his exact credentials, but Simon from Serious Se-eds has graduate level training in biology and knows his stuff when it comes to genetics. He's a pretty "serious" breeder, I think. 

Not sure where this came from, but in general, breeders of ANYTHING usually don't go to school for it. They pick up some basic genetics knowledge, and then learn from experience. 

Remember, people have been breeding cannabis, grapes, wheat, dogs, horses, sheep, and a zillion other things for thousands of years. So that's thousands of years before Darwin was born, and thousands before there even was such a thing as college. 

Having a strong background in genetics can be helpful in breeding, but its neither necessary nor sufficient. 



> Subcool is about as UNEDUCATED a breeder as one can get, he even admits it, which I respect.


Subcool doesn't have formal education in genetics, but I think he has significant real world experience that informs his strain creation. 

Street smarts still count. I think Sub said that he may not know much about breeding, but he knows "dank" when he sees it. . .well, the most important thing is SELECTION, so if he's using his ability to "find dank" to do selections, he can have good results (see above about people breeding for thousands of years before the modern science of genetics). 



> Its strange that some of you guys look at todays "Breeders" and think they are God like people? Many of these guys started in a closet, Moms basement, a small Cab grow, ect. It would probably surprise you that many may not even graduated from High School.


Everybody started somewhere, and nobody's first grow was done under a room of 8 1000 watt lights!

IMO, there are a relatively small number of breeders who are very good (that's "good" with two "o"s, not one) and a large number of seedmakers that aren't. 

Note that I am making a distinction here between a "breeder" and someone who make ceeds for sale. In my opinion, the two are not the same thing. 

In my book, if you're not doing selections, you're not a "breeder", period. Maybe you're a "ceed-maker" or a "crosser" or a "pollen chucker". There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. . .if you start with good parents, and apply a small amount of discipline you can still make good ceeds. . .you're just not really making new strains.


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## greenghost420 (Jul 10, 2013)

hes a serious breeder.... good post^^^


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## blissfest (Jul 10, 2013)

I agree, a "Breeder" grows out MANY plants and makes selections, then does it again and again.

A pollen chucker seed maker, takes already proven plants and makes S1's or crosses. This isn't work, sure it takes time, but it is a simple process.

The cannabis scene is flooded with pollen chucker seed makers, people buy those seeds like there is no tomorrow.


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## Jogro (Jul 10, 2013)

blissfest said:


> I agree, a "Breeder" grows out MANY plants and makes selections, then does it again and again.
> 
> A pollen chucker seed maker, takes already proven plants and makes S1's or crosses. This isn't work, sure it takes time, but it is a simple process.
> 
> The cannabis scene is flooded with pollen chucker seed makers, people buy those seeds like there is no tomorrow.


It doesn't even take much time or space to create S1s. 

If you hand me a nice rooted clone of a fast maturing strain, I could potentially have S1 seeds in 12 weeks or less. 

With minimal veg time to develop plant size, the yield probably won't be much, but if I'm charging $23/bean, I don't need much yield!

Don't forget that not everyone is trying to sell their own genetics. There is a decent business out there selling what amounts to mass-market produced ceeds of generic versions of old inbred standbys like Skunk, Northern Lights, White Widow, etc. You can make these types of ceeds really old school. . .with small plots of open-pollinated outdoor greenhouse grown plants in Spain. There are a bunch of ceed-houses out there that are selling these generic beans under different labels. 

On "pollen chuckers" here's the formula:

-Acquire some desirable clone only or "name" strains via gift, purchase, trading, etc. 

-Either self-pollinate or cross these strains to create S1 or F1 hybrids. If you want to get real fancy, maybe do a backcross or 1-2 generations of selections. 

-Make LOTS of noise promoting the ceeds, emphasizing the scarcity and desirability of the parent genetics, claiming that you're the only one who holds the "real" parents and/or the only one offering these mutts in ceed form, emphasizing how your stuff is better than everyone else's, and generally talking smack. 

-Charge top dollar and cash in on the majority of small growers who simply don't understand that simply crossing elite genetics most often doesn't produce new elite genetics.


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## gudkarma (Jul 11, 2013)

here's LMFAO !

1) " Clockwork Orange bringing big money at west coast dispensaries, ha&#8230;ha&#8230;.ha&#8230; I&#8217;ve been to most of them, they don&#8217;t even know who you are Matthew Riot. I was foolish enough to buy some of your bird seeds from the Attitude Seedbank, I should have just flushed my money down the toilet. Complete garbage, not the work of a real breeder. BEWARE fellow stoners, this clown is a CROOK "

2) " Well I have been duped!!!! I thought I had found a breeder who was honest and gave a shit. Boy was I wrong!! I have had a 100% FAILURE RATE with Riot Seeds over the course of 2 years starting with a germination rate of the Grape Stompers at around 20% and then male seeds from so called feminized seed stock of the same strain which Matt conveniently blamed on Gage Green. The remaining plants that were actually females ended up hermie and I ain&#8217;t talking a nanner here and there!! I couldn&#8217;t keep up with all the pollen sacks so they eventually shot their sperm all over themselves and BAM!! SEEDS GALORE!!! So I told Matt about it and he was quick to offer replacements that took 2 weeks to get to me (we are in the same country also). He sent me some Clockwork Orange and some Riotberry OG Kush beans and I was pretty stoked to run both strains since I was still thinking the problems I had with the Grape Stompers was a result of Gage Green breeding carelessly. I tried to germinate 4 each of the Riotberry and the Clockwork Orange and out of all 8 seeds I had 2 pop very tiny and pathetic little tails. I then scuffed and soaked 3 more of each along with 3 White Bubba seeds from another breeder and guess what??? Yep!! Out of the 6 Riot beans only 1 Riotberry opened and popped out another little tail. The rest of the Riot seeds didnt germinate BUT the 3 White Bubba seeds had some gorgeous healthy long white taproots which is what I am used to seeing when I germinate seeds. So as a last ditch effort I threw some Blue Dream Haze and Neville&#8217;s Blackberry Haze beans in some paper towelles to try and fill out the rest of my grow tent and out of 3 of each of them only 2 of the Nev Blackberry popped and NONE of the Blue Dreams!! Some SERIOUS germination problems with these seeds!! After 30 days they were showing sex and I found a MALE Nev Blackberry Haze which was advertised as FEMINIZED!!! MORE MALES FROM FEM STOCK!!! So from there the story is simple&#8230; I started to flower them and they were looking great till the end of week 3. ONCE AGAIN HERMIES!!!! There was sooo many pollin sacks popping up left and right that once again I couldn&#8217;t keep up with them and they ended up shooting their HERM SPERM all over each other and BAM!!! More seeds!!! Out of all the plants there were only 2 that werent hermie&#8230;. And they were the ONLY 2 PLANTS THAT WERENT RIOT!! They were the White Bubbas and now they are seeding too from the Riot junk sperming all over my beautiful and INNOCENT White Bubbas!! "


3) " Well its the same here in the emerald isle,got 2 pkts of this evil dudes stuff at the Tude its not there fault my sid v and james bondage very slow growth in veg then 2 of the sid v hermied in 1st week of flower,THE james bondage were all mutant,i should have liostend to the reviews on here and else were i mean this guy has over 30+ reg strains not too mention his feminized shit,,,so how could a methadone head breed that many strains it would take years and years and years,hes releasing strains every week ffs,so if your looking to grow decent puff stay away from mr riot,YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED "

4) " Matt breeds in 4 and 6 inch cups in A 1 BEDROOM APT.I had that sac#3 motheR that the seeds are bieng made of for 120 bucks for nut throwing trash.I threw them in the garbage.It has no buzz but Ill give it one thing ,it sure is pretty,you just cant get high,Go to couchlock and check his breeding skills,the poor boy cant grow a plant let alone breed one.Matt your skills suck,Your main grower(46&2) has (two) grows under his belt of cource you have stolen everyones genetics.Now your trying to F2 and cross all of OGRs gear to sell them on riot seeds.They wanted 5000 a pound for that sac#3 and my 70 year old mom cant get high on it "

5) "I noticed riot seeds websites have disappeared, hopefully its Karma in action!. 
as for the fuckwit above who seems to think that anyone who cant germinate riots pollen chucking knock offs is a rookie or in some way incompetent as a grower LMFAO you have been suckered by the latest in a long line of scammers who hold out their greedy paws after hyping up their trash products using retards like yourself. Get a grip and realise you have been scammed like the rest of us and the house of cards is crashing down around your ears."

6) " the fuss is about that fuctard riot misrepresenting his seeds so he can sell more of them you dont get it do you? he is selling seeds an they are not what he says look at sensible seeds listing for Riot Seeds Double Black Doja the picture is of a black russian this is a picture riot used in all his listings until he was caught out by some old school growers who knew the picture was from one of heaths threads you also totally ignore the fact that riot isnt doing any breeding or working on strains he is crossing strains, you might not know but there is a difference .if you want to keep on buying his seeds fair enough but dont attempt to try to justyfy someone who has over 100 strains, uses other breeders pictures and gets seeds and strains given under false pretences you should be ashamed of yourself just like he should riot relys on people like you who dont know what all the fuss is about but the rest of us have come to realise that there is no smoke without fire look around you. you have been had in the worst way"
I have 3 males out of 5 grapestomper s1&#8242;s so my way of thinking is riot seeds is a rip off, riot says he hasnt seen anyone else with problems so it must be me"

7) " I feel like such a dumbass for ordering from his site. Don&#8217;t be the next dumbass. I really should have checked him out more, before ordering. Lesson learned. I was hoping for some genetics with some real OG Kush in them. Money down the drain. I sent him three messages asking where my seeds where. He cashed the money order in Oct. He told me to fuck off and suck it. Banned from his site, out $ 300 and no seeds. It&#8217;s not like I can complain to Western Union for a refund, can I ? "


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## gudkarma (Jul 11, 2013)

from heath robinson : 


Matthew Riot trying to justify obtaining seeds by deception and conning growers by using pictures from other strains instead of his own, and selling inferior hermi seeds is wearing a bit thin.
To put things in perspective to those who don&#8217;t know, over the last 10 years I have been supplying grow information and seeds. In this time I have had lots of requests to supply med clubs and individuals and have supplied seeds to all that have asked.
Riot approached me with the tale that he was a grower for a medical club, he told me the difference with his club was he was doing it for the love of the medical community and the meds and seeds were provided free of charge.
I told Riot I would gladly send him some seeds as he was going to give the seeds away to medical patients for free. 
Only later did I discover that Riot Seeds idea of free seeds and meds differed from mine, the main difference being Riots &#8220;Free&#8221; actually meant paid. And Riot was using my strains (and others) for commercial gain.
If I had sold Riot the seeds that would have been a different story but the fact is that they were freely given by me with the intent for them to be given away to needy patients, Instead of the seeds being given away as agreed Riot seeds decided to profiteer from them. 
I decided to put this down to experience and said nothing, that was the case until I noticed that at every seed bank that Riot had his seeds listed on (including his own site) was using my pictures to sell his seeds!. Nowhere in the description did it mention that the images used for the strains for sale weren&#8217;t his. In all cases riot had crossed the strain to something else but was showing my strain pictures. 
In some cases he was using the wrong pictures and showing a totally different strain altogether. Some of the pictures were taken from my grow threads from 2005!!!
He proceeded to explain this away by saying &#8220;Heath takes a better picture than me&#8221;! There was no apology to the people who had bought the seeds who thought they were buying the strain depicted in the picture.
I had to contact the seed banks where he had his seeds listed to get them to remove my images. (I have proof) 
Matthew Riot is new to breeding in fact he has only been growing a couple of years, I have the posts from the forums where he was asking for advice on taking cuttings and breeding. 
None of riot seeds strains are stabilised, quite the opposite in fact, to produce as many strains as they have for sale would have taken a breeder 20 years. 
That is one of the reasons why no one can grow out any of their seeds and get a true representation of what they are selling. That is why Riot Seeds offerings have a tendency to be hermaphrodites and that is the reason your feminised seeds have a high percentage of hermaphrodites and males. 
In this business you need to bear in mind that if you do it wrong you are fleecing ordinary growers out of their money and time. Even worse you are fleecing ill and terminally ill patients out of money and even worse time.
Riot quotes above &#8220;We&#8217;re the only seed company donating free seeds to terminally ill patients&#8221; well I&#8217;m sorry to disappoint you Riot but for the last 10 years I have been giving away totally free seeds to ALL PATIENTS, AND THOUSANDS OF ORDINARY GROWERS, I HAVE NEVER CHARGED FOR A SINGLE SEED
Anyone looking to buy Riot Seeds, please look again! There are plenty of good seed banks out there, don&#8217;t waste your money on a seed hacker.
Do a bit of research, look on the grow forums like ICMag Rollitup and Best Seed Bank before buying, there is good reason that Riot seeds has the worst reviews on here and other sites. 
Unfortunately in the seed business there are plenty of scammers due to the high profit margins, the time it takes from seed to bud is long and means that seed sellers can have a lucrative business before the growing community realise that they are being sold garbage.
This is what is happening to riot seeds now. There are plenty of growers who were initially singing Riot Seeds praises who now realise they have been sold seeds which are nothing like the descriptions. 
Buyer Beware
I can only hope that Karma catches up with Riot sooner rather than later. 
Keep it green
Heath


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## gudkarma (Jul 11, 2013)

nobody owns the genetics ?
the why did shanti rename all his crosses ?
i mean to change the name of your strains clearly implies ownership.

shanti did the work , you buy seeds , grow them , play with them , and make new strains ...okay i can dig that ...especially if you look at the time shanti has spent in the game vs his catalog of beans.

with girl scout cookies via riot gear & clowns making beans from that stock , are they gonna note the origins ?

even better you gonna grow a few seeds , make some crosses from a very limited selection , & call it done.

^ LMFAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for real !

better to get pollen chuck advice via private chat with riot's beau ....bodhi ... since his namesake is "the enlightened".

& nobody owns the work ?
well not in a legal sense... but 100% totally for sure in an ethical sense.
but , nowadays, its okay to boost genetics AND its okay to gank your friends.

* thieves never stop thieving... & they _*always*_ have twisted motivations & FAG justifications.

no doubt, a liar & a thief are the same thing to ~gud.

pretty soon people gonna start dissing sannie for making his own jack... which i NEVER see called "jack" ...but ALWAYS "sannie's jack".

^ its name implies OWNERSHIP

^ ^ @ f7 soon to be f8 you mean to tell me its okay to boost that , make seeds , market seeds , sell seeds , without even asking dude ? who owns a biz, has a mortgage, pays taxes, etc ?

NOTHING is gonna keep chucking F.A.Gs from playing breeder & acting like the hard work from another is fair game ...its the fucking norm.

& i'd NEVER buy a single bean made with riot gear.
never. ever. never. 

missing out on nothing !

& & shwag cookies gets 50/50 mixed reviews as it is... & i've yet to see a glowing positive review of gsc from seed. 

phenotype city ! not really potent ! and low yield ! that's what i've been reading.

if its not the actual cut... you can talk shit all day... cause the punnett square says cookie genetics couldnt be more than 50% at best... & even less if you take riot shwag , cross it to something else , maybe 25% gsc at best.

no basic science class for you ?
fuck a degree in biology that has nothing to do with business , ethics, and common sense.

& & & imo , strictly , people who think gsc is a strain are retarded... its a phenotype of cherry pie x durban.

ow better ask matt riot about its origins , if he's not to busy being a "soul assassin" making records with his buddy B Real.


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 11, 2013)

Jogro said:


> Sorry if I put that out there mistakenly. . .that was what I inferred from Eyeballs post.
> 
> I was just using it as an example, by the way. I'm not picking on Subcool here, and this could be any cut or line by any breeder.
> 
> ...


From growing out my own s1 over the years i have found them to be very uniform pretty much identical to the mother in most cases, im sure others may have different results
while s1 seeds are easy to make they often will produce a plant more like the phenotype desired, than most of the f1s and f2s poly hybrids sold by seed chuckers 

quite a few are selling s1, off the top of my head 
ograskal the white s1
dr greenthumb ogkush s1 cheese and about 5 other s1's 
sick med seeds green crack s1

its seems from reading this type of stuff over the years shanti chimera dj short, nevil maybe even sam the skunk man lol and a few select others, are kind of on a short list as breeders , the rest are pollen chuckers or hackers
i do not think this helps growers much, while it would be easy to compare the breeders of race horses simply on races won
but how do you compare who creates the best plants, when its totally subjective to the end user, its not a "race" or competition

my point has nothing really to do with riot seeds i have no experience of them i have only ever read bad things about Matthew riot 
its a good idea to point out the seed sellers that have a poor history with growers so maybe other growers will not be duped
but at the same time, i don't agree with others being idolized , when folk can make good seeds for themselves just as good as the majority of whats on offer from most pollen chuckers
and its these pollen chuckers that make up the bulk of all seed companys 
if Matthew riots plants are shit, it is not because they are s1, it is because he does not care about quality and has not fully tested his crosses

peace


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 11, 2013)

i think a better comparison would be music, than race horses, still not the same but closer i think 

it would be like saying, only those that can play an instrument read music and write all their own songs and produce all their own albums should be respected
which maybe a fair point, but what if i do not like the type of music this respected musician has created ?
should i be forced to say it is better than the music i enjoy because it was created by a "professional" 

a guy with a mic and a mixer, scratching some records like some ghetto 80s hiphop dude is music to some people 
it might require much less talent and might take much less time , but what if folk like it ? 

should we hate this guy for making easy music, or should we only hate him if he starts making money from it ? 
or maybe if he starts making money but is disloyal to his fans ?
at what point should we condemn him as a hacker and plagiarist 

again this is nothing to do with riot seeds specifically , just a general thought 

peace


----------



## greenghost420 (Jul 11, 2013)

why would bodhi talk about this child molester?


----------



## blissfest (Jul 11, 2013)

I would never waste my time breeding with plants that I am unfamiliar with, 

the plants that I will make seed with I have ran several times, and they handled heavy feedings, and high heat stress, flowered too long, and never thought of throwin a nanner.

If I do make seed from a plant I only ran once, I will just keep a close eye on them in a test run, no big deal.

Making seed is about as easy as falling off a log, I made my first seed back in 91 as a total greenhorn and they came out just fine.


----------



## greenghost420 (Jul 11, 2013)

anyone thinks somas seeds are worth the asking? i want that g13 haze x nycd


----------



## Jogro (Jul 11, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> From growing out my own s1 over the years i have found them to be very uniform pretty much identical to the mother in most cases, im sure others may have different results.


I think this really depends on what the parent you're growing S1s from. If you're starting with a fairly stable line, the S1s should be similar to each other and the parent. 
If the parent itself is an unstable polyhybrid, it will put out lots of different phenos if crossed. 

Think of it this way: An S1 is just a sexual cross of a plant with itself, basically like an F2 of the S1s parents. 



> quite a few are selling s1 [ceeds], off the top of my head
> ograskal the white s1
> dr greenthumb ogkush s1 cheese and about 5 other s1's
> sick med seeds green crack s1


Lots of people sell these, but just because someone is selling them, doesn't mean you should be buying. Lots of these are hermie-prone or give off phenos that vary enough from the clone only line that there is little point to buying them. 

An S1 can, at least in some cases, give you many of the characteristics of the parent, especially if you have the ability to go through lots of plants to pick out the best pheno. 

So if you "must" try Green Crack, for example, and can't get a cut, an S1 is probably as close as you're going to get. That strain in particular is probably an F1 of two inbred lines, meaning that an S1 is effectively an unselected F2. But in general, you can't expect that most S1s will be like a clone only parent, and if you're doing your selection from a pack of only six ceeds, the odds probably aren't with you. 



> its seems from reading this type of stuff over the years shanti chimera dj short, nevil maybe even sam the skunk man lol and a few select others, are kind of on a short list as breeders , the rest are pollen chuckers or hackers


The list is quite a bit longer than just those guys, but most of the others don't have any famous "name" lines that they developed, and therefore aren't at the point where their names are as well known. 



skunkd0c said:


> it would be like saying, only those that can play an instrument read music and write all their own songs and produce all their own albums should be respected
> which maybe a fair point, but what if i do not like the type of music this respected musician has created ?
> should i be forced to say it is better than the music i enjoy because it was created by a "professional"


The difference here is that music quality is largely subjective, and is subject to the opinion of the listener. But many of the features associated with proper breeding (eg potency, stability, disease resistance, etc) are objective. 

Again, I have zero problem with "pollen chucking" per se. My problem is with pollen chuckers claiming these sorts of hacks are the best on the market (when they're clearly not) and asking top dollar for them. 



gudkarma said:


> nobody owns the genetics ?
> pretty soon people gonna start dissing sannie for making his own jack... which i NEVER see called "jack" ...but ALWAYS "sannie's jack".
> 
> ^ its name implies OWNERSHIP
> ...


Just for clarification, Sannie has been fully open about where he got the original genetics for his Jack, and what he's done to work the line. He's been doing specific selections on that one for nearly 10 years already, and think to the extent that any breeder can legitimately claim title to a line, he can to his Jack. 



> & & & imo , strictly , people who think gsc is a strain are retarded... its a phenotype of cherry pie x durban.


They're not "retarded", they're just not being precise about how they use the term "strain" (and most aren't). The fact is, many, perhaps MOST cannabis drug "strains" aren't, really. 

By definition, a strain is a group of plants that share similar characteristics. Unstable polyhybrid clone only plants like GSC and others may well be excellent in their own right, but they're effective "one offs", and not true strains.


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 11, 2013)

I have never bought any s1 only grown my own, from my own results i would not be put off buying s1 seeds, although i can not account for how they are produced by others i would rather grow regular seeds and select the phenotype i like 
s2 that i have grown were very high hemi prone

from the end user or grower or seed buyers point of view getting a plant that is a good likeness of what is advertised is mostly what i think folk care about
s1 would offer a better chance over many strains of finding something similar to the parent if that is what people want
in reality folk often do not get what is advertised which is not a surprise since most seeds on offer will only be f1 and f2 
although if they get plants of a good standard they will most likely be happy 

i think you are not looking at this from the perspective of the seed buyer most of which have no knowledge of genetics or breeding they just want nice plants
and are not so concerned with the hierarchy of the breeding world , while some breeders maybe more respected than other breeders
these elite breeders are still well capable of producing plants i do not like and still produce strains that show lots of phenotype diversity 

many folk have bought packets of blueberry from dj short and not ended up with anything that great others have great keepers 
its kind of a lottery when only growing a pack or two of any virtually any strain/cross which possibly makes up for the bulk of seed sales
folk just buying one or two packs of each strain/cross

folk could just as likely find a winner in a less respected breeders pack of 10 
at the end user level it is subjective to taste and needs, there is no holly grail plant

folk on this very forum tell me a plant cant be good because it came from seedsman or barneys since those breeders are not on the hierarchy list, anything i would grow from them is inferior to anything from shanti or whoever is the flavor of the month 

i like to be the judge for myself, i have no loyalty to any of the breeders/seed sellers, while some may have a higher chance of finding a winner its still a lottery for the end user or seed buyer
greenhouse seeds and riot seeds must have the worst reputations in the industry and the most haters but they are still selling seeds 
subcool is not so popular around here as he once was, but he is still selling seeds too, not sure if the negative publicity is working to stop folk buying these seeds

i personally would let others make their own minds up and keep out of it
and leave the breeders to their lofty arguments over genetics too

peace


----------



## greenghost420 (Jul 11, 2013)

id like to hear about the white s1s from ogr or the s1s connesoir genetics has...


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 11, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> id like to hear about the white s1s from ogr or the s1s connesoir genetics has...


ive looked at some of their strains too, the hey dave looks nice which is fem not s1, not keen on the name but that doesn't matter
they have casey jones s1 the white and one or two others 

not heard too much about the white from ogr, but whitefire which was fem was good, lots of good reports out there on that one 
heard mixed results on dr greenthumb never grown anything from him they are expensive too 
he has all the main money spinners in s1 lol, OGkush cheese bubba kush and sour d
i have seen some good things from one of the growers here on RIU with sickmed seeds there Williams wonder looks nice they have a few s1s that are well priced green crack and a fire og cross 
i still tend to go for regular seeds, and many of the crosses/strains that take my fancy at the time are not in fem i still wouldn't rule out some of the s1s though


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 11, 2013)

Jogro said:


> So if you "must" try Green Crack, for example, and can't get a cut, an S1 is probably as close as you're going to get. That strain in particular is probably an F1 of two inbred lines, meaning that an S1 is effectively an unselected F2. But in general, you can't expect that most S1s will be like a clone only parent, and if you're doing your selection from a pack of only six ceeds, the odds probably aren't with you


i am basing this on my own experiences with s1s which may not be of value to anyone else, but is of value to me as i trust my own experiences
the last strain i grew s1s from was original misty from homegrown fantaseeds, on the seed run i had 5 females that were very different i do not think any of them really matched the strain description
but i was happy with one of them all producing very different buds from skunky to hashy to lemony 
i decided to keep the hashy plant i cloned it for a while and also some naturally occurring end of cycle s1 seeds not forced 

i grew out only 5 of these seeds at first i only had a very low number of seeds anyway 3 of them were vigorous and were kept full term 
1 of them was similar to the hashy mother, the other two were like clones of the mother practically identical, yet they came from a strain/cross that showed a reasonable amount of phenotype diversity even though they were all big indicas , i have done this with a few strains, while my limited experience with s1 does not prove anything universally i accept that, i would be more likely to try the s1s of others as i know they can work well. i still have some angel heart s1 and some biker kush s1 from previous run, i may run them soon, and see how close they are to their old mother keepers 

peace


----------



## gudkarma (Jul 12, 2013)

no worries bliss ! opinions can differ.
like i say when you come to the "argument" (not yell type , smart type) bring your opinion & proof & sound logic.

this aint a spelling bee & this aint for grades.
tell it like you see & research it.

& i know when you do photo, you bang those ladies right.
you grow lots of good gear with passion & love.

& end of the day , your space is yours.

& no need to keep commenting on this thread.
i done did prove my point.

===> from seed to cuts to seed banks to grow gear to internet weed buddies <===

in the canna internet game :

thieves.

a
l
w
a
y
s

thieve.

^ from now till infinity.

just play the game smart. learn from your mistakes.

^^ heath robinson & i & y'all & especially riot's medical customers know the same thing.


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## Chronic Masterbator (Jul 12, 2013)

Gotham trying to talk shit without spreading rep?? Tsk...tsk... should no better. Yo Gud don't let the negged out folks bug ya. A lot of em showing up on riu as of late.


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2013)

If the so called elite respected breeders were so great and their strains always reliable, i would assume
the quality of their work would set such a high standard given enough time it should force the pollen chuckers and their inferior work out of the market 

why has this not happened ?


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2013)

calling each other fag or other such homosexual insinuations gudkarma being the main culprit doesn't lend any weight to your argument 

never did understand the mentality of the sycophant
having such an interest in other folk's business, trying to score brownie points


----------



## gudkarma (Jul 12, 2013)

F(ake)

A(ss)

G(rower)

thanks bro BUT your opinion isnt one i share. 
big college words aside. 

and i've decided that you dont own the lexicon either. 
i've taken back that word & modified for my personal use.

language being flexible and all.
p/c comments being for bitches and all.
and im not worried about weight to my argument.

just look at drank's.
then look at mine.

better than the weights used to send bin laden , wig pealed back , to the ocean floor.

look at what i posted about riot.
look at what TSD crew posts.

TSD should post a FAG link to riots subsection & then after you laugh a little ...that link will usher you to riots space in TSD store.

hippiefag20 pops up on your IM chat box begging you to grab some of "nobody's gear".

like odysseus in that cave with the cyclops... who's there ? 

NOBODY !

& no problem with people lying it up for matt riot ? 
& no problem with FAGs stalking ~gud ?

sniffle, sniffle. brownies? 
you got milk with those?

& no worries. i handle. mad handle. 
casualties of war. blood & guts. its part of the mission , the mantra , the modus operandi.

fuck what you heard "doc" , im killing birds with a stone.

can i talk about the time drank asked me to hang in real life , about how depressed he was, how he wanted me to go to see corny marylin mansion with him ? 

like i'd roll with a FAG who pill pops all night.

bwahhahahhahahhahaha. shot em down!

i gets mo pussy playing with my cats!

[video=youtube;VB5coQcelAk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB5coQcelAk[/video]


----------



## blissfest (Jul 12, 2013)

This thread is a trip, LOL!

But for the record, I am not loyal to any breeder, if I grow it and its great or if it sucks, I am not afraid to say

I do have 3 packs of Riot gear that I will test someday, and see for myself. I always think positive, LOL!


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2013)

i'm sorry dude but unless you type in a more conventional fashion i am not going to read your posts, i am not willing to invest the time and effort to decipher your unique style of ebonics 

can't understand normal thinking see you next tuesday 
something like that


----------



## gudkarma (Jul 12, 2013)

[video=youtube;rQtysS7fB4k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQtysS7fB4k[/video]

ebonics ? OMFG ! urban anthropology 101 ?

are you being racist ? or just 1990 ? or a combo of both ?

cause its called "black vernacular english"
ebonics? holy shit. white power ! LOL !

what you dont like the roots?
im outraged !

& if you NEVER read my posts (same way i skipped over your laughable biology/music analogy) ...im 100% totally cool sans validation from "the doc".


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2013)

gudkarma said:


> F(ake)
> 
> A(ss)
> 
> ...





gudkarma said:


> did i give another internet faggot life? damn by gotham i think i did


ok you said FAG is an acronym for "fake ass grower", it's not a homosexual reference since you have taken ownership of the word fag

what is your acronym for "faggot" from your previous statement i would assume you do have one ?

whatever your gripe is, with "fags" and "faggots" i hope you work it out soon 




gudkarma said:


> ebonics ? OMFG ! urban anthropology 101 ?
> 
> are you being racist ? or just 1990 ? or a combo of both ?
> 
> ...



interestingly the word Ebonics was originally coined in 1973 by African American social psychologist Robert Williams

In 1975, the term appeared in Ebonics: The True Language of Black Folks, a book edited and written by Williams







Dr Williams above posing like a boss on the cover of his book in 1975
guess the Dr must be racist, or perhaps a white supremacist in face paint ?

peace


----------



## raiderman (Jul 12, 2013)

lol.......


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2013)

gudkarma said:


> so when im downtown , see a bunch of dudes parading with rainbows , leather collars , pink tutus , high heels , dressed in drag... i think same thing you think : fags
> shit let's turn this thread into "why not rename an ancient instution like "marriage" so fags can opt in like the rest of us. HELL NO.


what i do not understand is the connection/relationship between "dudes parading in rainbows" "leather collars" "pink tutus" "high heels" 
and fake ass growers ?



gudkarma said:


> F(ake)
> 
> A(ss)
> 
> G(rower).


you paint a very clear mental image with your descriptions of these fake ass growers "downtown" which would indicate you took your time to study them closely 
why can't fake ass growers get married ? 



gudkarma said:


> did i give another internet faggot life? damn by gotham i think i did


so i take it from your most recent post you still haven't thought up an acronym for the term "faggot" this is not a complete surprise 

i haven't read past a few lines of your posts, the way you write is not inviting to read perhaps i was a little harsh, you are entitled to your own style of English but you must acknowledge it's not so easy to read for those not in your inner-circle and familiar with your buzz words and acronyms, that being said you do seem tormented about something and are ranting 

what is it you seek to achieve, other than making a blithering idiot of yourself ?


----------



## Jogro (Jul 12, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> If the so called elite respected breeders were so great and their strains always reliable, i would assume
> the quality of their work would set such a high standard given enough time it should force the pollen chuckers and their inferior work out of the market
> 
> why has this not happened ?


Excellent question. 

The quick answer is that its a real market, even if mostly a black market. There is room for top shelf stuff from the best breeders, intermediate stuff, low end stuff, and scam artists. 

Many of the scam artists DO go out of business. . .look what happened to "Doggie's Nuts". . .they charged $200/pack for bunk ceeds and the company is now defunct. 

With a constant stream of new growers entering the market, courtesy of rapidly expanding legal MMJ, there are always potential new buyers, and the vast majority of them simply aren't .experienced enough to know what's really outstanding genetics and what isn't. They don't know which breeders have been around for 20 years and made names for themselves. All they know is the names of the "hot" strains at their local dispensary, on the street, or in magazines, and they're attracted to whomever says they can provide them as ceeds. 

As a side thing, if Riot can net 3x the price of the competition for his beans (and in some cases he does), he only needs to sell 1/3 as many of them to stay afloat. Cutting out the middlemen (ceed banks) does, at least, offer that one advantage. Riot also has one other advantage in that he's (apparently) shipping from within the USA. That's a risk that most breeders won't take.


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2013)

Jogro said:


> Excellent question.
> 
> The quick answer is that its a real market, even if mostly a black market. There is room for top shelf stuff from the best breeders, intermediate stuff, low end stuff, and scam artists.
> 
> ...


would you like to compile a list, of elite breeders / pollen chuckers and scammers ?

i think some focus should be on these so called elite breeders, lets ask them why their strains are not always so great ? 
when some of them charge £10+ a seed 
why concentrate all the criticism on the smaller fish , all of these guys are in this to make money, or they would be giving away all the seeds for free
while some may have more integrity than others, who solely is to decide ?
who is the adjudicator of seeds ?


----------



## gudkarma (Jul 12, 2013)

im gonna appologize to you ^
even if i see it as fair game & all.

cause the topic is valid & genuine. 

& since i have accounts everywhere , went to check around a few places. 

yep. 
riot is back in a "seed place" with support from dudes who want to sell beans.

it is about money. only money. 
& server fees. & protection of your brand. & pushing product.

you diss riot , all of a sudden you dissing j-b & his crew.
i say bullshit described any other way.

@ 50/50 split on the price you see in the bin (which is the bank norm) + inflated shipping prices = math can add up quick.

you get some people talking shit & profits diminish. sales get sluggish.

even a "community" of bean collectors cant support a site that want to do bigger biz. you have to be palatable to everybody buying & collecting. i'd love to ask gypsy nirvana about one particular fuckwad. 

think i just might. cause im curious. & hungry for data.

& lets be very very real ...the other site got dudes in this thread , registering on the weekly , to defend what exactly ?

profits. 
unbeknownst or not. 
they defending their turf all the way over here (lol) & by proxy their newly added addition (riot).


----------



## greenghost420 (Jul 12, 2013)

only a matter of time before hes done...his edge seems to be putting out strains before the next guy. soon people will learn to wait.


----------



## gudkarma (Jul 12, 2013)

bro.
fact... e$ko & bodhi sell many many many beans.

more than the rest combined.
i know for sure. for sure!

you ever notice how the front page of "that site" has sweet seeds all of a sudden as a best seller. most popular. or whatever.

liars!

bman is the #1 seller over there. e$ko close close close behind.

deserved. cause he's (b-man) working always. & dude aint biz inept.
im not a huge fanboy of "the enlightened one" but i run stuff to satisfy myself ...with said gear & even with the riot gear.

anybody who knows me KNOWS i run shit 3x before it hits the trash if im inclined.
drank threw himself under a bus imo. took one for the team. played a weak card.

^ do you know where i got the crack a few of these, one of those, and 2 of them idea.... drank ! you see he does it like this.
he rolls with small samples from various "breeders" only to come to the canna podium, to blab shit, & make opinions. 

kinda like me. 
or, you for that matter.

^^ i ditched this total [email protected] (sorry doc) stupidity for cracking 10 to 20 of one strain cause it suits me better after finding a few (from my last run of over 100+ beans) for a decent stable... so far 8 months into my own seeker project.

im finishing tests on sub rosa's sirius lemon haze (slh x aliendawg) ...which im totally not liking on the 2nd run.
3x just hit the lab last week. & when done ...its not staying. 

as with subby , i was inclined with "swing kid" in this 3x way.

3x. my rule. an un-fade-able rule. 

no way. swing kid. as an S1 IMFO waste of electricity.

& if you go with jogro logic @ $23 a ceed (i think u said) holy shit to get a winner you'll need packs & packs of that shit.

s1 = swing shit , where's the fucking dank drank ?

& those riot grows drank mentioned... i saw them too.
yes the images (tsd fuckwads) cause i still have an active account.

...cause i stay hungry. 

nom
nom
nom


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2013)

gudkarma said:


> im gonna appologize to you ^
> even if i see it as fair game & all.
> 
> cause the topic is valid & genuine.
> ...



What are you getting out of all this its like a personal vendetta?


----------



## sunni (Jul 12, 2013)

yeah this is getting to be a bit ridiculous we get it you dont like riot seeds stop beating the dead horse HES DEAD.lol


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2013)

gudkarma said:


> well , well.
> 
> looks like im gonna do a few days in jail... the result of a lying piece of shit you all know.
> 
> ...


folk on this thread are calling you a snitch dude, that's rather worrying, it seems your obsession has been going on for sometime 
and that temper of yours 

sounds like folk been playing you, why do you think that is ?

i really do hope they are liars and trying to tarnish your character, it doesn't get much worse than a snitch 

when you was sulking earlier and said you wished you could slap me, did you by any chance visit my thread
and exhaust the free bandwidth from my free Photobucket account, ?

normally folk go there and call me a cunt or something, i like your style lol
i only ask as it seems a little coincidental and its a very easy thing to do

if i am wrong i do apologise


----------



## SCARHOLE (Jul 12, 2013)

I liked the riot seeds I Bought.
I think you got a few, give em a try GK?


like expensive wine they are high dollar.
Its nice to try the high end stuff.
but I don't drink 200$ bottles of wine ever.
so ill try riot or DrGt fems .

They are good guys who deliver fire IMHO......


----------



## gudkarma (Jul 12, 2013)

nice copy & paste. LOL !

you forget the part where i got ganked $1100 ? 

======> of course you did.
======> what happened to that herb taaldow stole from me anyway ? no money , no herb , and a pack of lies.

like selective memory you chose something quite odd to copy & paste from another thread.

looks like you did some TSD research. & nice work doc.
& like your ebonics copy & paste from wiki , it lacks total substance , knowledge of the situation, and entirety.

talk about odd ?

why not post the whole thing !

snitch? 

coming from the likes of you & the time-ly-ness of riots new subsection (july) & your introduction to this argument... along with all the other pussys from TSD ...there no need for a faux apology.

hahahahahhahahha.

love to love it.

love to see you posting the half truth.

love to see TSD looking like a bunch of FAGS.

love it ! 

& love to see you guys supporting a thief on multiple levels... from riot to taaldow it makes me smile.

if you buy riot beans you support a thief. 
its not like jb will not get half that $gap plus his bullshit ship costs. 
who would order beans from that fag ? are they still in spain ? or back to the UK ?

ow wait 22 year old kid with my credit card & a grown up "man looking" avatar is moving like a shadow through countries ?

if you play at the seed creepo you support thievery.

fact.

the seed depot is good for nothing. jb did whatever he did to protect himself & his $.

fact.

but we'll still email gypsy nirvana to find out about him too.
i mean dont you wanna know what gypsy thinks of JB?
i do !

^ cause we collecting data all day every day the people should know to whom their hard earned $ goes.

& the real snitch, the real fake ass , the biggest fraud on earth is your homegirl taaldow.

did you get the part where she ganked me at xmas time ?
did you get the part where she acts like the herb (which has never been see again) disappears cause this cunt fronts my front ?
did you get the part where jb take private messages i sent to taaldow after she sends me all kinds of shit & posts them ?

fact.

dude violates his own forum rules.
& got your credit card data.

*you know what happened to my $1100 ? cause im still not clear on the location of my gap.*

though im entirely sure i sent your thieving cunt friend a QP for which i was never paid.

so tell us about my snitchery ! i want to hear all about it.

not half details like your faux ebonics shit ...acting like you know something you dont.

OMG you guys look pathetic.
way.

was too easy to elicit that from you clowns. too ! easy !!
its like im on the cusp of whatever you're thinking. mind reading. 

playing checkers when you should be playing chess.

did you know that idiot taaldow was messaging me about "how much i do for her" when i cut that bitch off the first time?

dont you want to post the whole thing?
cause i want you too.

dont be selective => post everything.

riot = thief 
taaldow = thief
the seed depot = shit place to buy gear when you got the 'tude ! , hemp depot , & other great sources of gear.

do yourself a favor & tell drank... bang ...gottcha !
slew. 2x already. 

whew , im tired of banging you pussies around.

riot , slew.

KAB , next ! cause i copied & selectively saved every fucking lie he's ever told for enumeration later !

waiting. 
waiting.
waiting on it.

see you at the seed depot. promise. cause im there already. truer than true. long time ago. 

registered several accounts just like you cum swallowers do here !!!!!!

& get this , TSD even changed registration tactics just to thwart gudkarma LOLOLOLOOLLOOLOLLOLLLOOOLLOLLOOLOOLLOLLOLLOL !

& & double get this , the last vestage of hop is on your copy & paste shoulders.
after you busted this weak nut , what's left.

counter punch to the dome piece forthcoming  swear it !

spitting chocolate milk all over the place.

takes a NATION of Seed Depot faggots to even get at me ! BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWAAAAAH ! 

cause you can only gank my $ one time !

& now , the rest is up to me ... when i choose !!

all is fair in love & war.
& my bombs go boom !
trust it.


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## Chronic Masterbator (Jul 12, 2013)

Gud ain't no snitch I can vouch for that.


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## SmokinErb22 (Jul 12, 2013)

Gud, your logic is incredibly stupid, and you clearly have mental issues that you should seek therapy for.

You got screwed over, by an individual. Not TSD, not JB, not anyone but the individual you chose to do business with. Open your eyes and realize your vendetta merely makes you look like a fool. 

TSD doesn't get involved with personal transactions amongst members, you take those at your own risk. Did you expect their shipping guarantee to apply to personal trades as well in your mental state? You were mistaken.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Jul 12, 2013)

i dont think gud ask for any guarantee . . . i thought he was asking for moral and mental support as everyone started taking sides . . over his loss

we all have out moments that directly or indirectly are caused by our own decisions . . but i dont know anyone who says ok cool when people turn their backs on ya for being upset at your life not working out 

or after the top blows after unregulated pressure builds up go .. oh not for me any more

sucks how it all turned out . . but the starting point was a grift

if i got taken advantage of, id expect some sympathy and empathy from those who say they call me friend . . no shills for me

and gud you know that you attract more bees with honey then vinegar . . not saying you want anything but you cant convince anyone of anything unless they are willing to here it or at least listen . . .

and these rants tend to do more damage to you then to those you talk about . . . . .(aka getting worked up over others opinoin/actions or possible intentions is not a rewarding exercise)


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## SmokinErb22 (Jul 12, 2013)

Nobody took sides as it was nobodies business but guds and taadlow's or whatever her name is. 

Sure some individual members may have had opinions, but TSD never so much as made a comment, other than to inform them that insults/threats were against the rules. Backing/siding with neither. I can link you to the thread if you'd like. 

There were plenty members supporting gud, and members that stated that they had transactions with the taadlow person without a hitch, and that she was very generous. There are two sides to every story and obviously taadlow is a stand up person and unfortunate things DO happen. She has repeatedly stated that she did NOT screw over Gud. 

Gud is spouting lies and bullshit. The original thread is there for all to read, unedited, uncensored. Even guds threats/insults.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Jul 12, 2013)

where i come from we support those we call friends or treat as friends . .it is just the way i am

plain and simple . . . . . support is a vague term it doesn't mean i do whatever my friend wants it means i support him, and that means in my mind being behind the man when he gets taken advantage of, i have heard the whole story, i dont agree with how gud acted but i not gonna sit here and expect him to be perfect human being in the situation at hand . . . .i expect people to be people and when one fucks over another i dont wash my hands and go your issue, i go hey how can i help and if can i do

support is as easy as "hey bud that sucks let me know if i can do anything for ya"

real simple and friendly like


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