# Testing Beneficial Bacteria in Ebb and Flow (AK47 with Great White)



## homebrewer (Dec 27, 2010)

Ive finally got some free time and have decided to do another grow journal. In this journal, I will be testing a product called _Great White_ which is a product that supplies beneficial bacteria to the root zone. In theory, this product should aid in the uptake of nutrients and hopefully the end results are measurable. I paid around $35-40 for this 4oz container and judging by the scoop size and the application rate, this stuff should last though about 9 harvests. 

My strain for this grow is *AK47 from Serious Seeds* and it will be grown with DynaGro nutrients and a few additives. To feed the microbes, Ill be including floralicious plus and sweet from botanicare. 

Here comes the fun part which doesnt have much to do with the GW testing; _*at the end of this journal, I will be selecting a subscriber to test the AK47*_ and would love it if they would write a review of sorts at the end. Be honest in your review. Youre judging the strain, my growing practices and the products that I used in this grow. The sample will probably be about 2 grams and will be discretely sent to a location of your choosing. 

Lets get started:





*Day 1
*


----------



## sno1890 (Dec 27, 2010)

I am super interested in this. I always see this stuff and never have used it. I will be watching this.


----------



## CoralGrower (Dec 28, 2010)

Subscribed.


Your technique is very similar to mine (although I seem to be much better at hanging mylar than you!!)


----------



## frogster (Dec 29, 2010)

Hey brewer, cool thread..scribed. what do you think of this: Fungi.com sells tabs that contain a more complete army of microbes than even great white offers, and for only $6 an ounce. This product would replace the aquashield and ZHO by a mile. It sounds like your building your army in your rez (floralicious plus and sweet) ? And not in a separate container (tea)..... Seems easier than what im doing now... 10 gal tote, h20, microbes,molasses, worm casting in a sock.. and waiting 48 hrs, then I dump 1 cup to a gallon, then I cup everyday. Leftovers stay in my fridge up to 10 days.


----------



## homebrewer (Dec 29, 2010)

frogster said:


> Hey brewer, cool thread..scribed. what do you think of this: Fungi.com sells tabs that contain a more complete army of microbes than even great white offers, and for only $6 an ounce. This product would replace the aquashield and ZHO by a mile. It sounds like your building your army in your rez (floralicious plus and sweet) ? And not in a separate container (tea)..... Seems easier than what im doing now... 10 gal tote, h20, microbes,molasses, worm casting in a sock.. and waiting 48 hrs, then I dump 1 cup to a gallon, then I cup everyday. Leftovers stay in my fridge up to 10 days.


 I premix sounds interesting, maybe I'll try that when I apply Great White again. I've actually already run a Great White test and noticed a few things as a result and I'm more-or-less looking to see if the things I noticed are repeatable in this journal.


----------



## legallyflying (Dec 30, 2010)

I have been talking with the owner of extreme nutrients about their myco mixes. He seems to know his stuff and when he doesn't he will call me back and tell me when he asks those that know. I want to run beneficials in my hydroton but I need to get a choramine filter first.


----------



## BrandonT (Jan 2, 2011)

great thread deffinately subscribed +rep i like to follow everything this guy tests!


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 3, 2011)

Nothing exciting as it's day 8 and they look just fine. Res change today, DynaGro nutes with sweet and Floralicious plus, RO water, 1.3 EC, 5.9 pH, that about it. I think next week I'll give them another dose of the beneficials as the instructions suggest every 2-3 weeks. So far, it's business as usual.


----------



## Heisenberg (Jan 3, 2011)

frogster said:


> Hey brewer, cool thread..scribed. what do you think of this: Fungi.com sells tabs that contain a more complete army of microbes than even great white offers, and for only $6 an ounce. This product would replace the aquashield and ZHO by a mile. It sounds like your building your army in your rez (floralicious plus and sweet) ? And not in a separate container (tea)..... Seems easier than what im doing now... 10 gal tote, h20, microbes,molasses, worm casting in a sock.. and waiting 48 hrs, then I dump 1 cup to a gallon, then I cup everyday. Leftovers stay in my fridge up to 10 days.


For what it's worth...

Preparing a microbe tea outside of the res is not necessary in an ebb and flow setup. We do it in DWC when the system has been shown to be prone to root slime because the slime can feed off the food before the bennies and outgrow them. In my experience, prevention of this type of slime is inherent to an ebb and flow system as the roots sit in air most of the time. So, for ebb and flow, breeding them in the res makes sense. Just dump in some GW powder and some food every once in a while and be done with it.

Of course the tea would offer a few advantages. Using EWC you would get a more diverse microbe community. You wouldn't have to add food or housing to the res. You have a cheap supply of freshly active microbes in case you need to refill a res on the spot. Plus the great white would end up lasting longer, since we only use half dose in the tea, and then use the tea to inoculate gallons and gallons of water. If none of these are important to the grower, then no need to complicate things.

The product at fungi.com is exactly the same as great white, but without the bio-stimulant package or the plant vitamins.


----------



## xivex (Jan 3, 2011)

Subbed and +REP. Got some Great White on shelf for my next cycle for use with my H&G nutes. Can't wait to try it. Currently using Plant Success Granular myco and its great. Great White is their premier product...can't wait to see/try it!


----------



## Dropastone (Jan 4, 2011)

subbed...............


----------



## Illumination (Jan 5, 2011)

Love learning the truth and you always share it freely

namaste'


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 10, 2011)

Today is day 15 and things are as normal as they can be. Plants are doing fine with no issues whatsoever. One thing I want to point out as I've seen this question posted a few times this past week is that beneficials have zero affect on your pH, zero! I've run beneficials in veg before and did a whole grow with them with a different strain using GH nutes and the pH stability was no different with or without the bugs. 

Again, res change today, DynaGro nutes with sweet and Floralicious plus, RO water, 1.3 EC (~930 ppm on the 442 scale), 5.9 pH.


----------



## xivex (Jan 10, 2011)

Very interesting about the bennies and pH. I was justwondering earlier today if the bennies change my pH and to what extent. 

Plants look nice. Deep solid green color. Nice budlettes!


----------



## shnkrmn (Jan 10, 2011)

Microbes!? Ewww, no! 

subscribed.


----------



## supaleeb (Jan 10, 2011)

subb'd. let's see it


----------



## surphin (Jan 12, 2011)

Interesting new test HB. I notice you're running Ro water now. What do you think of it, any noticable differences? 

Have you run a comparision between Dyna vs. Dyna plus sweet and floralicious? 

I must also mention that because of your dyna vs. gh comparision, that I've been running Dynagro for a bit. Only half way through flower right now, so I can't give my thought on it for that. But, damn I like what I saw in veg. Nice clear res., less PH adjustment and a quart of grow will last me months. Can't beat that.


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 12, 2011)

surphin said:


> Interesting new test HB. I notice you're running Ro water now. What do you think of it, any noticable differences?
> 
> Have you run a comparision between Dyna vs. Dyna plus sweet and floralicious?
> 
> I must also mention that because of your dyna vs. gh comparision, that I've been running Dynagro for a bit. Only half way through flower right now, so I can't give my thought on it for that. But, damn I like what I saw in veg. Nice clear res., less PH adjustment and a quart of grow will last me months. Can't beat that.


My tap water this season jumped in ppm to mid 300's which is not only an issue for hydroponics, but my brewing as well. I've only been using RO for a month or so and as far as a 'difference', I can't see any between using RO water and using my _old_ tap water which was low 200's, and that's a good thing. Using my 300+ppm tap water was giving me some issues in soil so the RO unit for soil _and_ for brewing was a necessity. The nice thing about RO water is that I know exactly what minerals my beer and my plants are getting. With tap water fluctuating 100+ppm, I don't know if one month I'm getting more calcium or magnesium or sodium or chloride or sulfate.

As far as running sweet with DynaGro, I have not done that yet. I've run floralicious Plus and florablend with DynaGro, but not sweet. I need sweet to feed the microbes and while sweet is more than just sugars, based on previous tests, it will not be the item that makes a noticeable difference. Keep in mind that I've already tested Great White with sweet and floralicious plus and noticed a few things when using GH as my base. I'm hoping to see those results (or lack thereof) again.


----------



## Pon De Floor (Jan 12, 2011)

'scribed to another of your awesome experiments! can't wait!


----------



## surphin (Jan 12, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> My tap water this season jumped in ppm to mid 300's which is not only an issue for hydroponics, but my brewing as well. I've only been using RO for a month or so and as far as a 'difference', I can't see any between using RO water and using my _old_ tap water which was low 200's, and that's a good thing. Using my 300+ppm tap water was giving me some issues in soil so the RO unit for soil _and_ for brewing was a necessity. The nice thing about RO water is that I know exactly what minerals my beer and my plants are getting. With tap water fluctuating 100+ppm, I don't know if one month I'm getting more calcium or magnesium or sodium or chloride or sulfate.


I agree with you that knowing exactly what is in your water is nice, and RO gives you that consistently. Not sure about your area, but the municipalities around here have been known to "flush their systems" with massive amounts of chlorine and chloramine. 

Since going RO have had to make any adjustments to the amount of nutes used to get the same EC/ppm?


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 12, 2011)

surphin said:


> Since going RO have had to make any adjustments to the amount of nutes used to get the same EC/ppm?


 For the last month, I've been running the same total EC/ppm and things have been performing as expected.


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 17, 2011)

Day 22 today and today will be my first 'leaching of salts' along with a normally scheduled res change. I leach salts every 3 weeks and I believe that keeping your medium clean is essential to maintaining healthy plants until harvest day. 

This past week I noticed something that I also noticed on my first run with _Great White_. Even when using 'synthetic' nutrients, beneficials _do_ aide in the uptake of mineral salts. I'm feeding at about 1.3 EC or 950ppm on the 442 scale and this past week I noticed a slight touch of tip burn. This is nothing I'm worried about and something I noticed at normal feeding levels during my first run with this product as well. My fix during the last test was to cut back the nutes 5-10% which is what I'll do this time too. 

Again, the pH is unaffected by the beneficials and as far as plant health and growth rate goes, everything seems to be on schedule. 

Update in a week.


----------



## Illumination (Jan 17, 2011)

gorgeous as always...and I agree as less nutes needed is the translation of bugs are working and provided more to tthe plant than without...great job..as always

Namaste'


----------



## upthearsenal (Jan 17, 2011)

Looking man. So you're adding the benies every 2-3 weeks? Do you have an idea how long they thrive in your media?


----------



## xivex (Jan 17, 2011)

On the nute tip your absolutely right abou the bennies and other stuff in the mix equating to less nute usage...I'm running a semi-super soil (modified fox farms mix -- not quite subcool's super soil, but along similar lines without all the guano and bone meal)...humic acid, myco, bennies, etc. My nute usage has been tremendously lower than I thought it would be this time due to that.


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 18, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> Looking man. So you're adding the benies every 2-3 weeks? Do you have an idea how long they thrive in your media?


 Adding them every few weeks may be unnecessary but that's what the label suggests so that's what I'm doing. It would be interesting to find out if this is overdoing it but I do leach salts with clearex for a few hours every 3 weeks so adding the beneficials back might be needed in my case. I also leach two reservoirs at a time and I'm interested to see if clearex _actually_ helps in this process, so in 3 weeks when I'm leaching again, I'll run clearex in one and plain water in the other and post my findings.


----------



## Icannabis (Jan 18, 2011)

Professional as always...Sub'd


----------



## researchkitty (Jan 18, 2011)

I would think they would be destroyed by the other chemicals in the nutrient reservoir. I'm interested to see how this works as well. I'd be glad to be a guinea pig too, I have a commercial grow op that is peaking out at 24,000 watts of hydro ebb & flow power. Using Humboldt Nutrients G/M/B and all that now. If you need a "test bed", I got it!


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 19, 2011)

The photo below has nothing to do with this thread other than the fact that both strains are from the same breeder. My next journal will probably be my selection process of the females I decide to keep out of this first Kali Mist run. I'm not seeing a lot of phenotype variation between the 5 females I got out of my 11 pack but I'd like to keep the best 3 and run them in the same tray in order to narrow down my future Kali Mist mom. 

Below is a picture of a very fragrant Kali Mist lady at day 55 being grown in the dirt with DG nutes. She smells sweet, exotically spicy, piny with almost a candied lavender and citrus scent. I'm posting this pic just to kind of keep track of her progress. Cheers guys!


----------



## Illumination (Jan 19, 2011)

Really pretty my friend....

namaste


----------



## upthearsenal (Jan 19, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> I would think they would be destroyed by the other chemicals in the nutrient reservoir.


That's what I was guessing. Maybe they give a quick boost initially, then when you reapply them it's like you're introducing a whole new batch of microbes...


----------



## researchkitty (Jan 19, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> That's what I was guessing. Maybe they give a quick boost initially, then when you reapply them it's like you're introducing a whole new batch of microbes...


Ya, I've just assumed that my nutrient manufacturer says not to use it in ebb & flow hydroton for a reason. If it worked, they'd tell me to use it and love the extra $50 a grow cycle I have to pay for their nutrients........  We shall see!!


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 19, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> Ya, I've just assumed that my nutrient manufacturer says not to use it in ebb & flow hydroton for a reason. If it worked, they'd tell me to use it and love the extra $50 a grow cycle I have to pay for their nutrients........  We shall see!!


 The good folks over at DynaGro are actually the ones who suggested the use of Great White and the product came up in a conversation about non-NPK type additives. As far as how I use it, I fill my res then mix in my nutes, take a TDS reading and pH (usually not needed), _then _mix in the microbes. Stick around, we'll see if these little buggers are worth it.


----------



## researchkitty (Jan 19, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> The good folks over at DynaGro are actually the ones who suggested the use of Great White and the product came up in a conversation about non-NPK type additives. As far as how I use it, I fill my res then mix in my nutes, take a TDS reading and pH (usually not needed), _then _mix in the microbes. Stick around, we'll see if these little buggers are worth it.


What prompted this specific add order? You know, like with Grow/Micro/Bloom you ALWAYS add Micro first to avoid nutrient lockout, a very specific and important purpose.

I'm glad to hear DynaGro are the suggesters of this idea, it means they are thinking about it too.


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 19, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> What prompted this specific add order?


Not sure what prompted the order. I think DG may have suggested it but I can't be sure. I couldn't find anything on the Plant Success site and I've even contacted them before with a '_just use as directed with your regular feeding_' response. Maybe the order doesn't matter? Regardless, I think adding it last is probably least harmful to the bugs.


----------



## researchkitty (Jan 19, 2011)

I wish I had a microscope with a usb connection.  Be neat to see it live in normal water, and then see it after the chemicals nuke it a day at a time to see if it "lives" or "dies"............ That'd probably be the best 'scientific' way to do it, I dunno...... Mr Kitty is the Physicist not me lol


----------



## shnkrmn (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm going to guess it's because DG's own add order emphasizes adding Protekt first which jacks the pH up near 9.6/10 until you add dyna-bloom and mag-pro which more often than not sets your solution right at 5.8. If you add protekt after other ingredients it precipitates out. So it might be too harsh on your microbes if you put them in first.



homebrewer said:


> Not sure what prompted the order. I think DG may have suggested it but I can't be sure. I couldn't find anything on the Plant Success site and I've even contacted them before with a '_just use as directed with your regular feeding_' response. Maybe the order doesn't matter? Regardless, I think adding it last is probably least harmful to the bugs.


I have a nice microscope, but a usb one is on my list. They aren't that expensive.


----------



## mr.smileyface (Jan 21, 2011)

Yea i was thinking of buying that stuff. 
My store didnt have it. They said it must be new. They only have the AN pirahna tranchula and voodoo. The great white is basicly the pirahna and tranchula mixed. The voodoo juice is the microbes tho. It works very well. I used all three and got explosive roots. To pricey tho. 
Voodoo and great white sound decent together. Cheaper i guess? 
It says to use carboload or karboboost. I use bud candy instead.


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 24, 2011)

Day 29 today and I have a bit of a complaint. In my second run with GW, I've determined that this product _does_ work; it aids in the uptake of minerals. The downside to that is that this additional uptake of minerals is not consistent from week to week and is something that needs to be factored in when feeding your plants. 

Currently I'm feeding between 850-900ppm or 1.2-1.3EC and I'm seeing some slight margin curl even at these low levels. Normally this isn't an issue and this current 'issue' isn't even a problem, just an observation. The experienced grower can account for this greater sensitivity to plant food whereas the rest of the growers out there (the other 90% of them  ) will probably just burn their plants. 

Again, it's a living organism that is aiding in this process and it would be hard for them to perform _exactly_ the same from week to week. Just an observation as hydro for me is easier than dirt because it's incredibly consistent with fewer variables to deal with. Adding beneficials is like throwing in a variable that doesn't need to be there. 

All-in-all, things look good and we're almost halfway done folks, thanks for following along.







..a crop of the previous picture:


----------



## xivex (Jan 24, 2011)

Those plants are looking vey nice homebrewer! Nice work. I kow exactly what you mean about the gw nute uptake. Im not ashamed to say I burnt mine in exactly the way you described. However i also gave them too much gw prior to that and had to do a mini flush to correct the problems.


----------



## mane2008 (Jan 27, 2011)

wow the plants are looking stellar, and they're only halfway through. can't wait until the weight packs on. Dyna-Gro really fits into your setup.


----------



## homebrewer (Jan 31, 2011)

Day 36 today and I think I've got a handle on how to dial back the nutrients a touch when running _Great White_. The plants seem to be doing well with a 10% decrease in nutrients and a feeding level of about 850ppm or 1.2EC looks like it should work for the next few weeks. Nothing new to report, the pH is stable at 5.9, res change today, DynaGro nutrients with Floralicious Plus and sweet. The growth at this stage doesnt seem to be any different than if I werent running beneficials, but I guess final yield will be the tell-all. 

Here are the ladies, update in a week, cheers!


----------



## Dropastone (Jan 31, 2011)

Looking good as always HB.


----------



## xivex (Jan 31, 2011)

Very nice man! Good tip about the 10% nute decrease!


----------



## Illumination (Jan 31, 2011)

Beautiful and green as always...so it is making a measurable difference...but if only reduces nutrients needs??? Maybe some benefit will show up in the end products as well?

Awesome job as always my friend!

Namaste'


----------



## burrr (Jan 31, 2011)

Homebrewer, your grow is looking amazing. I've got a couple nute questions for you.
Have you tried your old GH nute line-up with the addition of silica? I've got a feeling the silica is the main factor in your bigger yields since switching to dyna-grow. 

Have you compared flora nectar to the sweet that you currently use? Are you convinced that the carbs help your plants, even before you started adding the bacteria. I have not found any info about plants using the carbs.

What do you think about enzymes? do they get the same results as bacteria? could be another test for you to run.

Thanks for sharing all this info!


----------



## BrandonT (Jan 31, 2011)

great job homebrewer there looking amazing


----------



## Icannabis (Feb 1, 2011)

Hey Homebrewer,

You ever think of getting a couple of those 27 gallon rough neck totes they sell at Lowes? I read you were thinking of trying a larger Reservoir. I put 20 gallons in mine not a worry in the world there build tough. Good looking plants +rep!!!


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 1, 2011)

burrr said:


> Homebrewer, your grow is looking amazing. I've got a couple nute questions for you.
> Have you tried your old GH nute line-up with the addition of silica? I've got a feeling the silica is the main factor in your bigger yields since switching to dyna-grow.


I have about 7 gallons of GH nutes left and half of my reservoirs use GH with protekt. While Protekt is a great product, it doesn't do anything to directly influence yields. It's a great pH stabilizer because of it's higher pH and it adds a level of resistance to spider mites. It also helps grow studier plants, but in regards to yields, it did nothing for my GH-grown plants. 




> Have you compared flora nectar to the sweet that you currently use? Are you convinced that the carbs help your plants, even before you started adding the bacteria. I have not found any info about plants using the carbs.


I have compared the two and Sweet is a better product. I've found floranectar to be unstable as I had 1/2 a bottle ferment on me and sweet has a better mineral content that plants can actually use. I don't use carb products for their carbs as plants already make their own sugars and have a limited ability to pull them up from the medium. I'm using sweet this round to feed the microbes but sweet also supplies a good dose of magnesium and sulfur. 



> What do you think about enzymes? do they get the same results as bacteria? could be another test for you to run.


Different products all together. In regards to enzymes, people should concentrate on mastering the basics of complete plant nutrition and maintaining healthy plants until harvest day. Only then should someone look into the extra rip-off additives that are out there. I've used a lot of rip-off products throughout the years and none of them have made as much of a difference as feeding plants with ideal NPK ratios and maintaining healthy feeding levels. 




> Icannabis Hey Homebrewer,
> 
> You ever think of getting a couple of those 27 gallon rough neck totes they sell at Lowes? I read you were thinking of trying a larger Reservoir. I put 20 gallons in mine not a worry in the world there build tough. Good looking plants +rep!!!​


Normally I fill my tubs up with 15-17 gallons of water and top off with fresh water each day. Naturally as my plants feed throughout the week, the ppm drops and adding fresh water further dilutes the res. A larger res creates 'head space' issues given my flower room so I'm kinda stuck with my lower profile 15 gallon concrete mixing tub reservoirs. 

The idea behind a larger res is that when properly feeding, your plants will consume water and food in similar ratios which constantly maintains a given feeding level. I've been experimenting with adding back nutes every few days in order to keep my feeding levels the same throughout the week. I'll let you know how it goes. Even with my 'top off with fresh water method', I still manage to get some solid yields.


----------



## shnkrmn (Feb 1, 2011)

Hey Homebrewer. I use a Rubbermaid stock feeding tank for a res. They come in 50, 70, 100 and 300 gallon sizes and they are 25" high; they just have a bigger footprint rather than being deeper. They are cheeeeep, too, but not as cheap as your mixing tubs. This link is not for price but for example. You can buy them way cheaper at an agricultural supply center. They also can come with a drain valve and a top-off float valve.

http://www.rubbermaidforless.com/agriculture-stock-tanks-category-15_18.html


----------



## upthearsenal (Feb 1, 2011)

The buds are coming along nicely man, I was wondering, have you encountered any kind of biofilm on your media?


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 1, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> Hey Homebrewer. I use a Rubbermaid stock feeding tank for a res. They come in 50, 70, 100 and 300 gallon sizes and they are 25" high; they just have a bigger footprint rather than being deeper. They are cheeeeep, too, but not as cheap as your mixing tubs. This link is not for price but for example. You can buy them way cheaper at an agricultural supply center. They also can come with a drain valve and a top-off float valve.
> 
> http://www.rubbermaidforless.com/agriculture-stock-tanks-category-15_18.html


 Thanks for the link, i'll keep those in mind since at least one of those looks like it could work with my height restrictions. 



> *The buds are coming along nicely man, I was wondering, have you encountered any kind of biofilm on your media? *


I don't think I've ever had anything on my medium that has caused any issues with or without the bennies.


----------



## researchkitty (Feb 1, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> The buds are coming along nicely man, I was wondering, have you encountered any kind of biofilm on your media?


What's a biofilm?


----------



## upthearsenal (Feb 1, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I don't think I've ever had anything on my medium that has caused any issues with or without the bennies.


I was wondering because I read something on adding bennies to hydro, and it said that any harsh chemicals will kill most of them off, yet some bacteria survive, and can form a biofilm. This could have been specific to dwc now that I think of it, but really, I can't remember much of what I read so I figured I should maybe ask you... it also could have been total bs because I read it on a thread here, but either way...



researchkitty said:


> What's a biofilm?


There isn't much I can tell you that google can't


----------



## Icannabis (Feb 1, 2011)

Hey Homebrewer, 

Here's the height of the 27 gallon roughneck tote I use...I hope this help


----------



## MediMary (Feb 3, 2011)

I am pulling up a seat to catch the results, great great thread homebrew.

ResearchKitty I just came across an article on biofilms, http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Quality-Safety/Tomato-Salmonella-research-to-study-role-of-plastics-and-dry-biofilms?nocount
and I touch on in briefly in my thread too, im still trying to fully understand it, first time I heard the term biofilm was just a couple months ago


----------



## SandstormGT (Feb 4, 2011)

I just glanced over several of your threads and I didn't see whether or not you stated how high your were flooding your concrete mixing trays. I was thinking that running the water up to about the .25" mark of the 6x6 cube for 1-2 minutes would allow the rockwool to soak up everything it needs. What are you doing as far as flood level, frequency, and duration?

Also, Are you running the DynaGro Foliage Pro or the DynaGrow Grow? Which do you think is ideal for a MJ plant in the vegetative state? I only ask because out of the 6+ hours of reading the posts of Fatman and Uncle Ben arguing back and forth in several threads, about the only thing that either of them agreed upon was that the 3-1-2 NPK ratio of DynaGro Foliage Pro was probably the best suited veg formula for the MJ plant and about the only thing on the market that provides that NPK as well as the other 12 essential nutrients our plants need. Thoughts?


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 4, 2011)

SandstormGT said:


> I just glanced over several of your threads and I didn't see whether or not you stated how high your were flooding your concrete mixing trays. I was thinking that running the water up to about the .25" mark of the 6x6 cube for 1-2 minutes would allow the rockwool to soak up everything it needs. What are you doing as far as flood level, frequency, and duration?


They get flooded with about 2 inches of water 3 times for 15 minutes each time during each light cycle.



> Also, Are you running the DynaGro Foliage Pro or the DynaGrow Grow? Which do you think is ideal for a MJ plant in the vegetative state? I only ask because out of the 6+ hours of reading the posts of Fatman and Uncle Ben arguing back and forth in several threads, about the only thing that either of them agreed upon was that the 3-1-2 NPK ratio of DynaGro Foliage Pro was probably the best suited veg formula for the MJ plant and about the only thing on the market that provides that NPK as well as the other 12 essential nutrients our plants need. Thoughts?


I use the 7-9-5 grow formula because when mixed in different ratios with their bloom, it's prefect for the different stages of flower. 3-1-2 is possibly 'ideal' for veg but the vegetative stage is cake and can be done with a 1-1-1 ratio. 

When it comes to yield and quality, the ideal flowering NPKs and complete plant nutrition are what people should be arguing about. I think color spectrum of the bulbs in veg is much more important than specific NPK ratios. Again, 1-1-1 works fine for veg, no need to get too scientific about it, imo.


----------



## SandstormGT (Feb 4, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> They get flooded with about 2 inches of water 3 times for 15 minutes each time during each light cycle.
> 
> I use the 7-9-5 grow formula because when mixed in different ratios with their bloom, it's prefect for the different stages of flower. 3-1-2 is possibly 'ideal' for veg but the vegetative stage is cake and can be done with a 1-1-1 ratio.
> 
> When it comes to yield and quality, the ideal flowering NPKs and complete plant nutrition are what people should be arguing about. I think color spectrum of the bulbs in veg is much more important than specific NPK ratios. Again, 1-1-1 works fine for veg, no need to get too scientific about it, imo.


What color spectrum in veg are you going with? I always thought the 6500k was the norm...


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 4, 2011)

SandstormGT said:


> What color spectrum in veg are you going with? I always thought the 6500k was the norm...


 I use a few 4000k mh bulbs from my local hardware store. One of these days I'm going to test some bluer halides but 4000k work just fine.


----------



## cthroo (Feb 6, 2011)

So I like ur thread I am doing the same thing but with sunshine #4, there's a new mix that has mycorrhizae in it but its pure coco so requires cal mag and freq. Salt leeaching. Anyways I would like to follow the thread...how are ppl suppose to do this. Is there a link or something to select to show you your marked threads? Koo thanks and good luck


----------



## Illumination (Feb 6, 2011)

cthroo said:


> So I like ur thread I am doing the same thing but with sunshine #4, there's a new mix that has mycorrhizae in it but its pure coco so requires cal mag and freq. Salt leeaching. Anyways I would like to follow the thread...how are ppl suppose to do this. Is there a link or something to select to show you your marked threads? Koo thanks and good luck


at the upper potion of this page you will see "Thread Tools" ...click on it and the third option at the bottom of the dropdown is the subscribe to this thread tab...select that will ask you to confirm then once you do anytime anyone posts it will show up on your my rollitup

Hope it helps

Namaste'


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 7, 2011)

Day 43 today and I wish I had some observations to report. Great White at this point in time is aiding in the uptake of mineral salts, but I don't know that these plants look or smell any different than my previous AK47 grows. They could possibly be slightly more resinous at this stage than normal, but only _slightly_. One of my observations on my first run with GW and my Dumpster strain is that GW seemed to increase resin production, but that's a lot easier to compare when the plant is done. So I'll hold off on confirming that for this grow.

The feeding levels are still down around 1.2 EC, pH at 5.9 and plants are doing well. I'm doing my weekly res change tonight after my 'leaching of the salts' test. I'll be posting the results of clearex vs no clearex to see if this product actually helps leach salts. Stay tuned!

Here are the girls:


----------



## xivex (Feb 7, 2011)

Gorgeous buds my man. Love the size and color! Green healthy bitches!  

Very interested in your results with Clearex as I use it for a final flush before harvest and would love to see what you think of it! 

Thanks,

X


----------



## beardogg (Feb 7, 2011)

Absolutely gorgeous grow and room!. Just trying to dial in my cycles. I have somewhat limited height in my bloom room but I also love the benefits of ScrOG. So my question to you is how tall do you let your ladies get in the Veg state. They look to be about 18+ inches tall. So then how tall do you unobstructed ladies rise to, for this AK-47?


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 7, 2011)

beardogg said:


> Absolutely gorgeous grow and room!. Just trying to dial in my cycles. I have somewhat limited height in my bloom room but I also love the benefits of ScrOG. So my question to you is how tall do you let your ladies get in the Veg state. They look to be about 18+ inches tall. So then how tall do you unobstructed ladies rise to, for this AK-47?


 I veg to about 15-18" and they usually end up around 36-40" tall. But that 36-40" is shorter than they could be as I supercrop as much as I can to maintain a relatively even canopy. I don't veg to a certain height necessarily, I veg until I like the structure and branching of the plant.


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 7, 2011)

The experiment: 

I have 2 identical setups with 6 plants in each tray. The plants in each tray are the same age, however, the trays contain different strains and are being fed with different nutrients at different feeding levels. 

The AK47 in this journal is getting DG nutes at 850ppm and the Dumpster tray is getting GH nutes at 1100ppm. GH is a saltier formula and given the same feeding levels, the EC of my &#8216;leached&#8217; water is always higher when feeding with GH nutes as compared to DG nutes (measured many times in previous grows).

In this experiment, my AK47 tray being fed with DG nutes will be flushed with Clearex at 10mls/gallon and the Dumpster tray will be flushed with plain tap water. It would stand to reason that if Clearex _did_ make a difference, the EC of the leached water from the AK47 tray would be equal or greater than that of the Dumpster tray. 

On the other hand, if clearex made no difference at all, the EC of the leached water from the Dumpster tray would be greater than that of the DG tray since GH is a saltier formula and is being fed at higher levels. 

Let&#8217;s get started

Both trays were given a base of around 250ppm (half RO and half tap water). The AK47 tray was given 10mls/gallon of clearex while the Dumpster tray was left alone.



Starting point for the AK47 tray:





Starting point for the Dumpster tray:




Both trays were flooded for 2 hours and at 3 separate times during the flood, I hand-poured res water over the blocks multiple times to leach salts from the top of the blocks. 

The Conclusion:

The ppm of the Dumpster reservoir that was leached with plain water was 850ppm. The ppm of the AK47 reservoir that was leached with Clearex was 690ppm. 

In the past when leaching these two trays, I&#8217;d normally expect about a 200ppm difference between the two and considering the difference is only 160ppm, that tells me that the effectiveness of Clearex over water is _negligible_, at best.

I will not be purchasing this garbage ever again. 


Final PPM for the AK47 tray:






Final PPM for the Dumpster tray:


----------



## Illumination (Feb 7, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> The experiment:
> 
> I have 2 identical setups with 6 plants in each tray. The plants in each tray are the same age, however, the trays contain different strains and are being fed with different nutrients at different feeding levels.
> 
> ...


Not surprised as that is the stuff that I mistook for Sweet...this is the product which is only diluted glucose and sucrose...sugar water basically

Namaste'


----------



## xivex (Feb 7, 2011)

Good stuff to know. I wont be buying this again either. Thx for the informative comparison HB!


----------



## beardogg (Feb 7, 2011)

But isnt it adding "essential" carbs and other trace minerals during the flush, ie molassas? Depending on one's water residuals, you would get some trace minerals but no carbs. Are we giving you HB, a starting point for the next test? adding carbs vs. not? thoughts?


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 7, 2011)

beardogg said:


> But isnt it adding "essential" carbs and other trace minerals during the flush, ie molassas? Depending on one's water residuals, you would get some trace minerals but no carbs. Are we giving you HB, a starting point for the next test? adding carbs vs. not? thoughts?


 There are no 'essential carbs'. Plants have a limited ability to pull up sugars from the medium so it's pretty safe to say 'carbs do nothing' for your plants. I'm using sweet in this journal because it feeds the microbes BUT it also adds a good dose of magnesium and sulfur which plants can use if needed. I think it also has aminos in it but just like sugars, your plants already make those. Despite what all the newbs around here want to believe, molasses is probably about as beneficial as clearex from a 'essential plant nutrition' stand point.


----------



## bigsourD (Feb 7, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> There are no 'essential carbs'. Plants have a limited ability to pull up sugars from the medium so it's pretty safe to say 'carbs do nothing' for your plants. I'm using sweet in this journal because it feeds the microbes BUT it also adds a good dose of magnesium and sulfur which plants can use if needed. I think it also has aminos in it but just like sugars, your plants already make those. Despite what all the newbs around here want to believe, molasses is probably about as beneficial as clearex from a 'essential plant nutrition' stand point.


lol... essential carbs. First time i've heard that.


----------



## shnkrmn (Feb 8, 2011)

Yea, but it 'loosens salt bonds' or some such crap. There's a reason why plain water is called the universal solvent.

I too have a gallon of clearex that I bought on a whim. Without the work that Homebrewer just did, NO ONE could say whether it had any effect at all. How can sugar water A) be useful for dissolving salts?) B) cost so much? I'm pouring that out too. I can use the empty jug I guess. Congrats on another addition to the knowledge base, HB.



Illumination said:


> Not surprised as that is the stuff that I mistook for Sweet...this is the product which is only diluted glucose and sucrose...sugar water basically
> 
> Namaste'


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 8, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> Yea, but it 'loosens salt bonds' or some such crap. There's a reason why plain water is called the universal solvent.
> 
> I too have a gallon of clearex that I bought on a whim. Without the work that Homebrewer just did, NO ONE could say whether it had any effect at all. How can sugar water A) be useful for dissolving salts?) B) cost so much? I'm pouring that out too. I can use the empty jug I guess. Congrats on another addition to the knowledge base, HB.


 I also have an unopened gallon and while Clearex doesn't seem to have an additional benefit over tap water, it's also doesn't hurt to use it vs throwing it out . Maybe I can dig up my receipt somewhere and take this shiz back.


----------



## Snafu1236 (Feb 8, 2011)

You're doing some pretty good stuff here man. You're testing is well thought out and executed. Your journal is clear, concise and easy to follow. Thanks for taking the time to experiment with cannabis horticulture and the vast array of products that are out there. Your time is spent well here and deserve much appreciation from the community. +rep!


----------



## Heisenberg (Feb 8, 2011)

Snafu1236 said:


> You're doing some pretty good stuff here man. You're testing is well thought out and executed. Your journal is clear, concise and easy to follow. Thanks for taking the time to experiment with cannabis horticulture and the vast array of products that are out there. Your time is spent well here and deserve much appreciation from the community. +rep!


Agree, I also admire the way these experiments are designed, and value the results much more because of it. It's the difference between anecdotal hearsay and reliable information.


----------



## MediMary (Feb 8, 2011)

Very much enjoy the clearex test, I am looking to test two products against each other, tryin to make it as reliable as a test as possible. thanks for the inspiration


----------



## Illumination (Feb 8, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Agree, I also admire the way these experiments are designed, and value the results much more because of it. It's the difference between anecdotal hearsay and reliable information.



Yes ol'HB is awesome...I mean when he did the Dynagro vs. GH thread his intent was to show how GH is superior...Well during it he saw it wasn't so and praised the outcome even though it wasn't what he wanted....now that says it all

NAMASTE' friend


----------



## medicine21 (Feb 9, 2011)

I find the tough part about using rockwool cubes is the watering schedule. For 4" rockwool cubes I find 1-2 floods a day is needed, but 1 seems not enough and 2 is too much!  With 1 flood, I suspect plants take more water than nutes and nutes build up in the cube (tested much higher ppm in cube than in res, 1800 vs 700 in res @.5conv), with 2 floods the cubes stay soaked and heavy most of the day. This is 25-35" SOG plants and the res does not fluctuate pH or ppm all week.

What is the right level of moisture for a rockwool cube? %50 of soaked weight? How light (dry) do you let your cubes get? Also, how high on the cube does your flood level reach?


----------



## mrduke (Feb 13, 2011)

Mr. homeb waht are your thoughts on running GW or similar in a sunshine mix? the reason i ask is my local shop owner was recommending that I run trays full of SS#4 w/ no drains and adding benifical bacteria's to make the "soil" come to life, What i thought was really interesting is that he said i could reuse the soil for years as its a living fungus filled habitat. Now a shop owner not try to sell someone extra stuff really threw me. he runs like this and says he hasnt replaced soil in 2 years, just adds a bit back to replace what was lost when pulling the stalks out. I ask your openion cause i know you use SS mix and trust knowledge thanks for the help


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 13, 2011)

mrduke said:


> Mr. homeb waht are your thoughts on running GW or similar in a sunshine mix?


I am planning a test in the dirt as well but because of the timing, I didn't have any strains ready that I'm familiar with and know what to expect out of. I would think that if you're using a quality dirt like sunshine mix, high quality nutrients and you have a set of healthy roots, that GW wouldn't make much of a difference either way. If you experiment, please let me know your results as my 'GW in the dirt' test wont start for a little while. 



> the reason i ask is my local shop owner was recommending that I run trays full of SS#4 w/ no drains and adding benifical bacteria's to make the "soil" come to life, What i thought was really interesting is that he said i could reuse the soil for years as its a living fungus filled habitat.


The only reason I don't reuse soil is because of the salt buildup from fertilizer. I like sunshine mix #8 (and I think #4 is similar) because it's a 'clean slate' so the only thing my plants get is what I've given them.


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 14, 2011)

Day 50 today and we probably have 12-14 days left before harvest. I may have forgotten to mention this but after I leached the medium last week, I added back some Great White and that was the last dose the reservoir will get per the instructions. 

Everything looks fine at the moment and I think the litmus test for this experiment will be the final yield for this grow. As of now, I really dont see GW making any difference as far as plant health or growth is concerned. GW has aided in uptake of nutrients (which can be seen by slight tip-burn at otherwise 'normal' feeding levels for this strain) but was that aid even needed and will that increase yield or quality? We shall see.


----------



## Illumination (Feb 14, 2011)

beautiful job as always HB.....looking forward to the numbers and quality

Namaste'


----------



## indoorman (Feb 14, 2011)

I currently have samples of Quantum growth beneficials microbes. I currently use them and have for a couple of years. I recieve the samples from a rep. thats a friend thats why I posted on the product before. They are the only liquid stable photosyntheic bacteria on the market and have a great consortism of bennies. If you send me a private message with a contact I'll get him to send you couple of bottles your way. I will add that Heisenberg has a great way to brew your own on a previous blog that has great info. Contact if you want, like to get feedback from someone else about the product. Happy growing Indoorman


----------



## upthearsenal (Feb 14, 2011)

Awesome plants man, that second shot looks great!


----------



## xivex (Feb 14, 2011)

Tasty!! .


----------



## transcendence (Feb 14, 2011)

As Always HB very concise and fun to watch / learn Thanks for your help!


----------



## surfhead (Feb 14, 2011)

( homebrewer )AWESOME GROW /and pics AND A WEALTH OF INFO


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 17, 2011)

The picture below has nothing to do with the thread but she's super sexy and I felt like showing her off. This is one of my Kali Mist ladies from serious seeds that made the cut to the second round. She yielded _the_ most potent smoke I've ever come across and she'll be in the running against probably 2-3 other Kali girls, all competing for a spot with my other mothers. Wish her luck .


----------



## brownbearclan (Feb 17, 2011)

Heya HB, awesome stuff as always! Had a question, do you ever use hydrogen peroxide or bleach in your res? I'd assume that either of those would kill these microbes. What are your thoughts on using those to keep algae/etc. in check? I was planning on using HP in my next run here shortly but all I can get is the over-the-counter stuff and I'm not sure how effective it is or if it's even worth using. Thanks HB! =)


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 17, 2011)

brownbearclan said:


> Heya HB, awesome stuff as always! Had a question, do you ever use hydrogen peroxide or bleach in your res? I'd assume that either of those would kill these microbes. What are your thoughts on using those to keep algae/etc. in check? I was planning on using HP in my next run here shortly but all I can get is the over-the-counter stuff and I'm not sure how effective it is or if it's even worth using. Thanks HB! =)


 I've never used that stuff as I've never had a problem with things in my reservoir. Bleach and H2o2 are a band-aid for a bigger issue. If you're seeing algae, make sure your res is dark and that the res isn't stagnant. I ran a test for 6 months to a year where some reservoirs were being aerated and some weren't. The stagnant reservoirs always stunk at res change time but that never affected the health of the plants. I added an airstone when I got a chance and volia, no more smelly reservoirs. 

If your res is dark and not stagnant and you're still getting algae growth, then at your next res change, I'd sanitize your res with bleach (1-2 ounces per 5 gallons and let it sit for an hour). Rinse, and resume growing. Also a thought; some nutrients are cleaner than others and in some cases, they could be supplying the bugs with what they need for growth.


----------



## medicine21 (Feb 17, 2011)

What about algae on top of rockwool cubes? Since algae is a plant and H2O2 does not kill plants, it does not seem that it would help any for RW cube algae growth.

EDIT: found this quote: "Hydrogen peroxide can be added to the water and will deter growth of algae, but it may also affect fertilizer chemistry." specifically for RW cube growth from Ed Rosenthal.


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 17, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> What about algae on top of rockwool cubes? Since algae is a plant and H2O2 does not kill plants, it does not seem that it would help any for RW cube algae growth.


 If your cubes are staying wet enough for algae to grow on top of them, you may be flooding too many times per light cycle. Treat problems as they arise but look for solutions to those problems so you're not constantly putting out fires.


----------



## medicine21 (Feb 17, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> If your cubes are staying wet enough for algae to grow on top of them, you may be flooding too many times per light cycle. Treat problems as they arise but look for solutions to those problems so you're not constantly putting out fires.


That's the thing, I am not. I flood once a day and early flower even skip days between watering. The RW cubes just hold so much water and I use small 4x4x2" on top of it. What contributes to cube algae in my case, is the fact that light gets through all the way, because the plants are lollipoped for SOG. Gives nice ripe buds on the entire plant, but also lights up the cube and algae grows.

I have experimented with cube covers, but have not come to a conclusion as to what is worse: algae on cube or a worse breathing cube as it is covered up.


----------



## beardogg (Feb 17, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> That's the thing, I am not. I flood once a day and early flower even skip days between watering. The RW cubes just hold so much water and I use small 4x4x2" on top of it. What contributes to cube algae in my case, is the fact that light gets through all the way, because the plants are lollipoped for SOG. Gives nice ripe buds on the entire plant, but also lights up the cube and algae grows.
> 
> I have experimented with cube covers, but have not come to a conclusion as to what is worse: algae on cube or a worse breathing cube as it is covered up.


"sorry to jump the gun but seems like you just need to seal the light out," Capt Obvious. 
No light = minimal algae, right? I cut a square of panda sheet and tape it to the cube cut a slit for the stem and works pretty good!


----------



## medicine21 (Feb 17, 2011)

Yes, as I mentioned I have cube covers on half the plants to experiment. The question is, is there any drawback to covering up the cube, such as less O2 getting to the cube?


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 17, 2011)

Fellas, this isn't relevant to this thread so if you would please use the PM function on this site, I'd appreciate it, as well as people in the future not wanting to leaf through a few pages of 'non beneficial bacteria' content. Thanks.


----------



## beardogg (Feb 17, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Fellas, this isn't relevant to this thread so if you would please use the PM function on this site, I'd appreciate it, as well as people in the future not wanting to leaf through a few pages of 'non beneficial bacteria' content. Thanks.


deal. and apoligies....damnit i did it again. delete. delete.


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 17, 2011)

beardogg said:


> deal. and apoligies....damnit i did it again. delete. delete.


 No worries. I like discussions but I also hate leafing through 80+ page grow journals to find the 'meat'. Thanks for follow along.


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 21, 2011)

Day 57 today and this is their last week. Things are looking pretty chunky so I'm excited to see what the final weight comes in at. My previous AK47 grow under these new bulbs and in this exact tray yielded 20 ounces on the dot so hopefully we'll see an increase when using Great White. Aroma, bud structure and plant health all seem to be 'normal' so other than a potential bump in yield, GW doesn't seem to be making a difference as of yet.

In regards to their final week, I wont be flushing. I'm not a flusher and know for a fact that plants have nutritional needs in the last weeks of their life. I'll be feeding at a little over 1.0 EC and today will in all likelihood be their last res change. 

I also like to harvest when I see a combination of signs. Swollen calyxes, red pistols and cloudy trics all signify that my plants are done. Based on the look of things now, I'd say day 64 or 65 will be chopping day. 

Here are the ladies, I'll take some final pics when I decide to chop in about a week. Cheers!


----------



## beardogg (Feb 21, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Day 57 today and this is their last week. Things are looking pretty chunky so I'm excited to see what the final weight comes in at. My previous AK47 grow under these* new bulbs* and in this exact tray yielded 20 ounces on the dot so hopefully we'll see an increase when using Great White. Aroma, bud structure and plant health all seem to be 'normal' so other than a potential bump in yield, GW doesn't seem to be making a difference as of yet.
> 
> In regards to their final week, I wont be flushing. I'm not a flusher and know for a fact that *plants have nutritional needs in the last weeks of their life*. I'll be feeding at a little over 1.0 EC and today will in all likelihood be their last res change.
> 
> ...


Just these couple of things you adressed..
...what bulbs are you using?
...very light nute solution seems like a good hypothesis, but most people/places say to flush. What prompted you to not flush and continue to (not)do so?


----------



## Illumination (Feb 21, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Day 57 today and this is their last week. Things are looking pretty chunky so I'm excited to see what the final weight comes in at. My previous AK47 grow under these new bulbs and in this exact tray yielded 20 ounces on the dot so hopefully we'll see an increase when using Great White. Aroma, bud structure and plant health all seem to be 'normal' so other than a potential bump in yield, GW doesn't seem to be making a difference as of yet.
> 
> In regards to their final week, I wont be flushing. I'm not a flusher and know for a fact that plants have nutritional needs in the last weeks of their life. I'll be feeding at a little over 1.0 EC and today will in all likelihood be their last res change.
> 
> ...


Beautiful job as always my talented friend Maybe I should link above to my flushing post?? lol....

Namaste'


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 21, 2011)

beardogg said:


> Just these couple of things you adressed..
> ...what bulbs are you using?


I've always used 600's from Hortilux, I just happened to change them back in November. 


> ...very light nute solution seems like a good hypothesis, but most people/places say to flush. What prompted you to not flush and continue to (not)do so?


 Common sense prompted me to stop flushing years ago. I don't flush my garden veggies and none of the produce that you buy from the store is flushed either. Why flush cannabis? Uncle Ben has a theory that flushing was invented by the dutch to atone for the sins of over-feeding and I tend agree with that. 

In addition to common sense, plants still have nutritional needs in the last weeks of their life. Flushing deprives them of what they need most so if you flush, I can promise you're hurting your yields and the overall quality and potency of your product.

Illumination has an excellent post about the science behind flushing and why flushing simply doesn't do anything, found here: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/393940-smoke-n-grow-nutes-versus-44.html

Stick around until the end of the journal. I'll be donating a sample of product to a member or three and I'd appriciate if they'd comment on the overall quality, including taste or harshness or whatever.


----------



## beardogg (Feb 21, 2011)

Thanks for the link and I'll def be around and looking forward to your journals!!! Great info, great tests, great Buds and Thanks!

Also, side point....When "we" say 1 g/watt what is expected? I have an L shaped space and have 2 600w, 1 over each tray, should I aim for 600g per tray?


----------



## transcendence (Feb 21, 2011)

HB- Again Much appreciated shared knowledge, I'm certainly not kissing A$$ fellas, this is how I have been with my friends and fellow online growers. It is always adds up to KaRmA in the end. PeAcE!


----------



## medicine21 (Feb 21, 2011)

Your plants look pretty dialed-in, no doubt, homebrewer. 

What is the white stuff on your cubes, is that salt build-up?

Been trying to dial in RW cubes and wondering whether salt build up matters in the cube. Can you take a sample of the water in the cube in between watering and let us know how it compares to that of your rez?

I would greatly appreciate that, since I am constantly finding higher EC in the cube than in the rez. I'd love to know whether that is build up of nutes they will not consume, so irrelevant, or whether I need to drop the nutes in the rez.


----------



## Icannabis (Feb 21, 2011)

Beardog to really test that 1gram per watt to be elite...you need a kilowatt tester or simular...to test if you really used the power. It's been awhile sense I read Homebrewers attempt and I don't know if he used one or not. But everyone knows he's a pro or elite or whatever. Good looking buds Homebrewer...


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 21, 2011)

beardogg said:


> Also, side point....When "we" say 1 g/watt what is expected? I have an L shaped space and have 2 600w, 1 over each tray, should I aim for 600g per tray?


Aim for 800 grams per tray and hope to get half that . One gram per watt is a pretty good measure of efficiency and skill, though it's dependent on a lot of things like strain, the style of your reflector, the age of your bulbs, NPK ratios and growing set-up. Vertical setups and light movers make hitting that goal a lot easier but my goal is quality first, then quantity. Luckily, I've found they go hand-in-hand. I'm using a 600 in this journal so if I yield 600 grams, that's 1 gram per watt. But some take into account the amount of time as well so if I hit 600 grams but took 90 days to do so, that's good but not efficient from a commercial stand-point. For me, that's still great as 600 grams is 600 grams . 



> *What is the white stuff on your cubes, is that salt build-up?
> 
> Been trying to dial in RW cubes and wondering whether salt build up matters in the cube. Can you take a sample of the water in the cube in between watering and let us know how it compares to that of your rez?
> 
> I would greatly appreciate that, since I am constantly finding higher EC in the cube than in the rez. I'd love to know whether that is build up of nutes they will not consume, so irrelevant, or whether I need to drop the nutes in the rez. *


That is a white mold on my rockwool blocks and it's there because my airflow under my plants isn't as good as it should be. My fans are all pointed at the canopy's around the room. 

I don't know how to take a sample of the water in my cubes as my cubes dry out in short amount of time. I'd imagine salt buildups occur in a number of weeks which is why I leach the cubes 2-3 times per grow. Gotta keep them clean.


----------



## G37Kush (Feb 22, 2011)

Homebewer very nice grow! Buds look frosty and the weight is really packing on now. You quickly touched upon the subject of enzymes. I've used hygrozyme in my last grow and have some left over for my current grow but I'm running low. Should I re-up on more hygrozyme or is that just a waste of money? 
Also, I'm running low on floranectar but I read in a previous post u preferred sweet over floranectar. So I'll try using sweet for the rest of veg and continue into flower.


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 22, 2011)

G37Kush said:


> Homebewer very nice grow! Buds look frosty and the weight is really packing on now. You quickly touched upon the subject of enzymes. I've used hygrozyme in my last grow and have some left over for my current grow but I'm running low. Should I re-up on more hygrozyme or is that just a waste of money?
> Also, I'm running low on floranectar but I read in a previous post u preferred sweet over floranectar. So I'll try using sweet for the rest of veg and continue into flower.


 I try to only use products that not only justify their price, but warrant the extra trips to the grow store and added time on res change days. I've used enzyme products in the past and don't use them any more. 

Sweet is better than floranectar but neither are 'necessary' unless you're lacking magnesium and sulfur or are running microbes and need a food source. Sweet will increase resin production due to its sulfur content but the drawback is that it's kinda potent from a ppm standpoint. 

When I'm not running microbes, I use magpro as it not only has a similar sulfur and magnesium content to sweet, but also has a nice NPK content. Sweet also has amino acids and whether those do anything or not is up to the user to decide, but I'm a big fan of Floralicious Plus which supplies aminos _and_ feeds microbes.

Long story short, between the mineral content of magpro and the fulvic/humic acid and amino content of Floralicious plus, I've found that I won't have a 'need' for sweet after I run out.


----------



## G37Kush (Feb 22, 2011)

I've also noticed that switching to heavy-16 A&B nute line compared to the fox farm nute line w/ calmag. The plants look healthier and does work better since heavy-16 is designed for RO water. 
It could also be because of floralicious plus which I've never used until this grow. 
I'm glad I read ur experiment on clearex because I was going to pick up a bottle soon.


----------



## Icannabis (Feb 23, 2011)

Interesting...I use the General Hydroponics Maxi series with Dutch Master Zone and Sm-90...I've used Magi-cal from Techna too...I think that the general doesn't put enough mag in there for cannabis. I thought about giving fulvic/humic acid a try I've read some research that said it might help. What are your views HB? I've totally cut my nutrient line up back to basic I even tried to get rid of the magi-cal this auto's grow.


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 23, 2011)

Icannabis said:


> I thought about giving fulvic/humic acid a try I've read some research that said it might help. What are your views HB? I've totally cut my nutrient line up back to basic I even tried to get rid of the magi-cal this auto's grow.


In regards to yields, nothing beats a complete base nutrient that supplies the desirable NPK ratios for flower (1-3-2). Two additives from GH that I already have and have been pairing up with DG are Florablend (sea kelp, alpha meal) and Floralicious Plus (sea kelp, humics and fulvics). I've found that I get slightly better resin production and better aroma when using these products. It doesn't make the end product any more potent and I wouldn't go around the forum guaranteeing results from these either, if that makes sense. Check out this article posted by UB: http://forages.tamu.edu/PDF/Alternative.pdf


----------



## rosecitypapa (Feb 23, 2011)

Hey Homebrewer, thanks for the exceptionally informative posts and grow journals. You rock!

Would you be willing to clarify something? I thought the use of beneficial microbes is for their ability to create fulvic from humic. Isn't adding the Floralicious duplicating what you are testing Great White to do?


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 23, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> Would you be willing to clarify something? I thought the use of beneficial microbes is for their ability to create fulvic from humic. Isn't adding the Floralicious duplicating what you are testing Great White to do?


 I don't think microbes can create fulvic acids in the time frame we're talking. In regards to duplicating efforts, I have always been under the impression that humics/fulvics can increase nutrient availability which is what the microbes have done to a greater degree. So in a sense, I'm doubling up on items that supposedly increase nutrient availability to the roots. 

A few informative links below:

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/fulvic.htm

http://www.hydroponics.com/howtoinfo/hydroponics articles/gold_fulvic.html


----------



## G37Kush (Feb 23, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I don't think microbes can create fulvic acids in the time frame we're talking. In regards to duplicating efforts, I have always been under the impression that humics/fulvics can increase nutrient availability which is what the microbes have done to a greater degree. So in a sense, I'm doubling up on items that supposedly increase nutrient availability to the roots.
> 
> A few informative links below:
> 
> ...


On that note is Great White worth the $$$?


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 23, 2011)

G37Kush said:


> On that note is Great White worth the $$$?


 The final yield will tell all.


----------



## G37Kush (Feb 23, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> The final yield will tell all.


Boo!...Haha alright I have about 2-3 weeks until I flower so plenty of time to see how this plays out.


----------



## Heisenberg (Feb 23, 2011)

G37Kush said:


> On that note is Great White worth the $$$?


Fungi.com mycogrow soluble powder is the exact same product as Great White minus the "bio-stimulant" (food) and vitamins. It's $6 an OZ, slightly less than Great White (~$7.5 oz) but you can purchase just one OZ if your wanting to try microbes. As long as your adding food for the microbes you don't need the bio-stimulant, and everything else is identical. If you multiply your microbes in a tea style brew, one OZ can last many, many months, so cost should never be an issue when considering using microbes.


----------



## medicine21 (Feb 23, 2011)

homebrewer, any experience or thoughts on Dyna-Gro K-L-N rooting concentrate?


----------



## rosecitypapa (Feb 23, 2011)

> Fulvic acid acts as a refiner and transporter of organic materials and cell nutrients.Whenever minerals come into contact with fulvic acid, in a water medium, they are naturally dissolved into an ionic form. These minerals literally become part of the fulvic acid itself. Once the minerals meld into the fulvic acid complex, they become bioactive, bioavailable, and organic. Thus, when elemental minerals are transformed into an organic state, through a natural chemical process involving fulvic acid and photosynthesis, they are safe to be used by both humans and animals. Bibliography for fulvic acids



Interesting link, so is there a distinction for food-grade fulvic acid or can I take a swig of floralicious?


----------



## homebrewer (Feb 23, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> homebrewer, any experience or thoughts on Dyna-Gro K-L-N rooting concentrate?


 I have no experience with it though I'd like to try it. I use a touch of superthrive and DG bloom formula when I'm taking cuttings and I can't remember the last time a clone didn't root. 


> *Interesting link, so is there a distinction for food-grade fulvic acid or can I take a swig of floralicious? *


I have no idea to be honest but I wouldn't drink floralicious plus personally. Too expensive . .


----------



## medicine21 (Feb 23, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I have no experience with it though I'd like to try it. I use a touch of superthrive and DG bloom formula when I'm taking cuttings and I can't remember the last time a clone didn't root.


Could it be the next homebrewer test?


----------



## transcendence (Feb 23, 2011)

I Have been using the *floralicious Plus the 2nd and 3rd week in flower so far and I can definitely smell the difference. I'm also running 2 plant's with botanicare pbp **/ protekt / flora + / hydroplex **and 2 with Dyna-Gro / protekt / flora + / hydroplex. and alternating with just water and molasses. So far they both look good! What do you think HB?
*


----------



## Illumination (Feb 24, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I have no experience with it though I'd like to try it. I use a touch of superthrive and DG bloom formula when I'm taking cuttings and I can't remember the last time a clone didn't root.
> I have no idea to be honest but I wouldn't drink floralicious plus personally. Too expensive . .


very similar to superthrive...homoans lol and vitamins with just a hint of npk...gonna try it next transplant....used superthrive usually as well

Namaste'


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 2, 2011)

Well I just finished chopping and trimming the AK47 in this grow and theyre hanging to dry as I type. I started on Sunday (day 63), couldnt do any yesterday due to work, and finished up the other half today. Things look pretty chunky so Im excited to see what the yields tell about Great White and possibly beneficial bacteria in general. 

Below are pics from Sunday before I started harvesting. I should have some final numbers in about 2 weeks along with my opinions about Great white and I may even post a video of the final weighing, havent decided yet. 

In regards to wrapping this journal up with the final numbers, I mentioned in the first post that Id like to donate a sample or two to fellow forum members who have been following along for review. If youre interested in reviewing the product and have a safe address that UPS can deliver to, contact me and well work out the details. The sample(s) will be sent out during the last week of this month.


----------



## Illumination (Mar 2, 2011)

Just beautiful as always my brother...you ALWAYS have gorgeous plants....striving to catch up to you and you are helping me accomplish this....

Namaste'

really curious as to the final numbers as well...also thinking that a soil grow comparison would tell much as well...gonna use solely dyna products on my next grow with some sat doms...aside from a lil big bloom here and there for the medium...gotta a gallon of the stuff and plants seem to enjoy it...gonna pm you the info on the strain choice for your evaluation


----------



## G37Kush (Mar 2, 2011)

Great looking harvest homebrewer! Im excited to see the results of the weigh in and also your evaluation on beneficials.


----------



## burrr (Mar 2, 2011)

Wow looks awesome homebrewer. Thanks so much for the informative threads. I've made the switch to dyna-grow, and will be comparing its results to my old GH program. I'm adding cal-mag to my dynagrow at 3ml per gallon, because of RO water. Did you have to add any Cal or mag?


----------



## burrr (Mar 2, 2011)

HB, I'm curious about your decision to harvest at day 63. I see some white pistils still coming in, does this mean you could have gone longer if you wanted to? Have you done some ak48 grows for longer?


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 2, 2011)

> Wow looks awesome homebrewer. Thanks so much for the informative threads. I've made the switch to dyna-grow, and will be comparing its results to my old GH program. I'm adding cal-mag to my dynagrow at 3ml per gallon, because of RO water. Did you have to add any Cal or mag?


I also use RO for both soil and dirt and DG has a product called magpro which I believe they recommend when using RO. I do not use Magpro in the dirt and they still turn out great (seen below).







> HB, I'm curious about your decision to harvest at day 63. I see some white pistils still coming in, does this mean you could have gone longer if you wanted to? Have you done some ak48 grows for longer?


I harvest when I see a combination of things; cloudy trics, 75% red hairs and swollen calyxes. These AK47's from Serious seeds sometimes go a touch longer, 64-67 days so this is pretty normal for these cuttings coming from my mother.


----------



## bigsourD (Mar 2, 2011)

Hey hb, just curious... what type of camera do you use?


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 2, 2011)

bigsourD said:


> Hey hb, just curious... what type of camera do you use?


I use a mid-to-upper-level Nikon dSLR. My flash is nothing special but it works.


----------



## xivex (Mar 2, 2011)

It takes great pics bro.


----------



## Icannabis (Mar 3, 2011)

Just a mid grade Nikon DLSR...lmao


----------



## beardogg (Mar 3, 2011)

he takes very nice pics and your post is completely unprokoked


----------



## Illumination (Mar 3, 2011)

beardogg said:


> he takes very nice pics and your post is completely unprokoked



I think you mistook what he was implying... As in JUST A NIKON DSLR!!! in other words...a badass camera and he said just!!!! At least that's how I perceived it

Namaste'


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 3, 2011)

Yeah, i don't think he meant any disrespect. If he did, I don't know what to say other than that the files are down-res'd 80% so they can be uploaded to the interwebs. Normal pics are far too large to upload to most sites.


----------



## Illumination (Mar 3, 2011)

saving up for my dslr....i am interesreted in the canon...are you pleased with the nikon? is it the 40?

Namaste'


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 3, 2011)

Illumination said:


> saving up for my dslr....i am interesreted in the canon...are you pleased with the nikon? is it the 40?
> 
> Namaste'


It's a handful of models up from the 40, though I don't think they make the 40 anymore. I had a canon point and shoot and went Nikon for the dSLR because of their glass and ease of use. You can lose with either Nikon or Canon.


----------



## Icannabis (Mar 4, 2011)

I didn't mean any disrespect...I love camera's I have a few...I don't go through all the trouble HB does but if his weed is as good as his camera skills then watch out...are you working in RAW HB? The Sony Alpha series is a good place to start...I like prism camera's...and NIKON glass is nice if you can afford it.


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 4, 2011)

Icannabis said:


> ..are you working in RAW HB?


Not for these pics. I use it from time to time but 90% of my pics are jpeg. 



> ...and NIKON glass is nice if you can afford it.


I have two pro lenses and while they are quite expensive, they are simple stunning. Nikon's color, sharpness and contrast makes me glad I spent an arm and a leg .


----------



## Icannabis (Mar 4, 2011)

Yeah a friend of mine just bought a Sony a900 it's a beast he's got a lot of those lenses $$$...I use a Fujifilm S200EXR for most of the around the house camera work it's only 12 megapixel...I'd hate to scale anything over that down...I use a multi-step down plug-in for adobe to keep the res. better...but on here I use a little canon point and shoot 10 megapixel...anyway I'm ranting about nothing of importance anyway plants look amazing can't wait to see the yield.


----------



## burrr (Mar 4, 2011)

HB, after doing all of these comparisons, and logging results, you must have some things that really stand out as awesome products.
If you were growing nugs to enter into the "cup", what would your plan be? Dynagrow? GH? hydro or dirt? What has given your best results to date?


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 4, 2011)

burrr said:


> HB, after doing all of these comparisons, and logging results, you must have some things that really stand out as awesome products.
> If you were growing nugs to enter into the "cup", what would your plan be? Dynagrow? GH? hydro or dirt? What has given your best results to date?


 Great question! If I was trying to put my best foot forward in regards to potency, flavor and yield, I'd use DynaGro in hydro with two GH additives; Floralicious plus and flora Blend. I'm sure there are comparable additives but these are the two 'organic-ish' additives that I feel help with ascetics (not needed but aid in resin production, aroma, etc). 



> *Yeah a friend of mine just bought a Sony a900 it's a beast he's got a lot of those lenses $$$...I use a Fujifilm S200EXR for most of the around the house camera work it's only 12 megapixel...I'd hate to scale anything over that down...I use a multi-step down plug-in for adobe to keep the res. better...but on here I use a little canon point and shoot 10 megapixel...anyway I'm ranting about nothing of importance anyway plants look amazing can't wait to see the yield. *


I'm of the attitude that the camera bodies are important, but glass trumps the bodies. I feel that these dSLRs are all capable of producing great pictures, it's just a matter of using the tool correctly. Now except in certain specialized situations like low light sports photography where _quality_ high ISO is needed, these cameras will give you the picture that you want, regardless of brand.


----------



## beardogg (Mar 4, 2011)

Illumination said:


> I think you mistook what he was implying... As in JUST A NIKON DSLR!!! in other words...a badass camera and he said just!!!! At least that's how I perceived it
> 
> Namaste'


Got it. I guess i didnt get the right Em-Pha-sis on his SYL-Lable stucture. no harm intended. Bold and Itallic work also when thyping.

Great lookin AK HB! I have some finishing up in the next couple too and they arent as chunky as yours(not that I would expect them to be!) Thanks a bunch!


----------



## lvautopro (Mar 5, 2011)

great thread and grow HB about how many days in flower for dirt compered to your hydro grow ?


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 13, 2011)

I have some yield numbers finally as the product was hung, dried, and sweat several times. The final weight as seen in the pic below (bags not included obviously) is 598.5 grams.

I hang the product until it's dry to the touch. I then clip and bag all the buds for a period of about 48 hours or until the buds have become moist again. I lay the product out for 12-24 hours or until the product is dry to the touch and repeat. This process is complete when the product has been sitting in bags for days and will not sweat any more. Snapping stems is also a good indicator of moisture content. 

A final review of _Great White_ along with some pics of the product will be posted this week pending a smoke report from one of my testers. Cheers!


----------



## xivex (Mar 13, 2011)

Cant wait!

X


----------



## Illumination (Mar 13, 2011)

looks great as always....sent ya an email...props...

Cant wait to know if you feel it worth the expense

Namaste'


----------



## upthearsenal (Mar 13, 2011)

Looks great homebrewer!


----------



## ztec (Mar 13, 2011)

Looks good, i like the use less get more method


----------



## poindexterous (Mar 14, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I use a touch of superthrive and DG bloom formula when I'm taking cuttings and I can't remember the last time a clone didn't root.


Hey HB, what's your cloning method? I still get hit and miss results with various mediums, oasis, rapidrooter, aero/ezclone. Any tips that you feel made a big difference? Thanks.


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 14, 2011)

poindexterous said:


> Hey HB, what's your cloning method? I still get hit and miss results with various mediums, oasis, rapidrooter, aero/ezclone. Any tips that you feel made a big difference? Thanks.


I clone with clonex and rapid rooters, then place into a humidity dome with a heated mat and 1/4 inch of water sitting in it (the water is usually a light mix of superthrive and bloom formula). The rapid rooters are sitting in these 6-pack seedling trays and are able to wick up the water in order to maintain a good water-to-air ratio. 10-14 day later I have great roots. When you take your cutting from your plant, just make sure you can place at least one node below the surface of the rooting medium and I also like to score the sides of my cutting. There are lots of methods out there but this works for me.


----------



## poindexterous (Mar 14, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I clone with clonex and rapid rooters, then place into a humidity dome with a heated mat and 1/4 inch of water sitting in it (the water is usually a light mix of superthrive and bloom formula). The rapid rooters are sitting in these 6-pack seedling trays and are able to wick up the water in order to maintain a good water-to-air ratio. 10-14 day later I have great roots. When you take your cutting from your plant, just make sure you can place at least one node below the surface of the rooting medium and I also like to score the sides of my cutting. There are lots of methods out there but this works for me.


Thanks, most appreciated!


----------



## Snafu1236 (Mar 14, 2011)

Anxiously awaiting your final report.


----------



## beardogg (Mar 14, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I clone with clonex and rapid rooters, then place into a humidity dome with a heated mat and 1/4 inch of water sitting in it (the water is usually a light mix of superthrive and bloom formula). The rapid rooters are sitting in these 6-pack seedling trays and are able to wick up the water in order to maintain a good water-to-air ratio. 10-14 day later I have great roots. When you take your cutting from your plant, just make sure you can place at least one node below the surface of the rooting medium and I also like to score the sides of my cutting. There are lots of methods out there but this works for me.


I might add that if you can afford to take a bigger cut, do so!! Don't short yourself and the clone by taking small cuts! This was something that seems obvious but I struggled with it and found that larger/beefier cuts are more resilient. Mother health is also paramount to the health of the clunes(another obvious one but...)


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 16, 2011)

With any luck, my review should be posted tomorrow as I'm still waiting for my tester to swing by and grab his sample. He's supposed to stop over tonight so in the meantime, here are some shots of the final product. My apologies for the delay fellas.


----------



## beardogg (Mar 16, 2011)

Excellent looking AK!!! I think Ak-47 has gotten kind of a bad rap over the years but I've found it is the better than average in a lot of the categories. This helps prove it!! Great grow and thanks for the knowledge, HB!


----------



## Illumination (Mar 16, 2011)

beardogg said:


> Excellent looking AK!!! I think Ak-47 has gotten kind of a bad rap over the years but I've found it is the better than average in a lot of the categories. This helps prove it!! Great grow and thanks for the knowledge, HB!


I find that odd as everyone I read who has grown it loves it..........

Namaste'


----------



## beardogg (Mar 16, 2011)

Illumination said:


> I find that odd as everyone I read who has grown it loves it..........
> 
> Namaste'


I agree with you, Ive grown and love it. But its been a staple for so long that people say "meh pass me the pineapple express or NYSD or mango" or 
some new hybrid vs a old tried and true hybrid like AK47. Maybe just my perception, but I love it (my perception and AK47)!


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 16, 2011)

beardogg said:


> Excellent looking AK!!! I think Ak-47 has gotten kind of a bad rap over the years but I've found it is the better than average in a lot of the categories. This helps prove it!! Great grow and thanks for the knowledge, HB!


 How does it have a bad rap? I believe it's Serious Seeds' most award winning strain. Additionally, a lot of other breeders have knocked it off or have created hybrids out of it. If someone is disappointed in their AK47, it was either grown poorly or not the real strain from Serious seeds.

EDIT: just saw your response. Personally, it would be hard for me to get tired of a potent, social sativa that smells like mangos and ginger.


----------



## Illumination (Mar 16, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> How does it have a bad rap? I believe it's Serious Seeds' most award winning strain. Additionally, a lot of other breeders have knocked it off or have created hybrids out of it. If someone is disappointed in their AK47, it was either grown poorly or not the real strain from Serious seeds.
> 
> EDIT: just saw your response. Personally, it would be hard for me to get tired of a potent, social sativa that smells like mangos and ginger.


exactly my thoughts...and ss has real quality for sure


----------



## xivex (Mar 16, 2011)

Ak47 does sound nice hb. Nice and juicey description! 

X


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 16, 2011)

xivex said:


> Ak47 does sound nice hb. Nice and juicey description!
> 
> X


 In a few weeks, we'll be seeing some reviews so don't take my word for it (reading rainbow? Am I dating myself?  )


----------



## Illumination (Mar 16, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> In a few weeks, we'll be seeing some reviews so don't take my word for it (reading rainbow? Am I dating myself?  )



wait a minute...wtf?? sorry I am really baked on bf's lsd and that threw me...lol...sorry


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 16, 2011)

Illumination said:


> wait a minute...wtf?? sorry I am really baked on bf's lsd and that threw me...lol...sorry


 Reading Rainbow was hosted by Levar Burton years ago and he'd always do these childrens book reviews at the end of the show. After he talked about how good the books were, he'd always say "...but don't take _my_ word for it". Implying that we should read the books and decide for ourselves. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6j8EiWIVZs


----------



## Illumination (Mar 16, 2011)

thank you ....that made things better...lmfao!!!


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 17, 2011)

Ok, so the smoke report is in and I've tested the final product myself as well. The thing is, I really don't like where this forum is headed and can't stand the bad info and shitty grows that come from a lot of the trolls around here. Basically, there are a lot of people on here that I don't like and don't want to help. For those of you who would like my impressions of _Great White_ in hydro, send me a PM and I'll cut and paste my write up to you. Cheers guys and thanks for following along. We should be seeing some smoke reports from a few members in early April.


----------



## kingofqueen (Mar 25, 2011)

*Subbed brother ! AK47 is one of my favs , can't beat the taste or high . I just need to grow it now *


----------



## hogs (Mar 26, 2011)

HB LIke to get my hands on some of that AK47 I am about to order some seeds from Serious seeds I think is where you get them..any other I maybe should try from them..I did notice you did mention some others throughtout your posts...?

As well as anyone else that may have a favorite from Serious seeds as well? Thanks again..>!


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 26, 2011)

hogs said:


> HB LIke to get my hands on some of that AK47 I am about to order some seeds from Serious seeds I think is where you get them..any other I maybe should try from them..I did notice you did mention some others throughtout your posts...?
> 
> As well as anyone else that may have a favorite from Serious seeds as well? Thanks again..>!


My seedbank of choice is seedboutique as they are quick and 100% reliable. AK47 is a great strain but Kali Mist is their top of the line strain, IMO. Not meant for commercial production for your patients as the flowering times are about 11 week at a minimum but the high is really something. I recently picked up some of their Chronic too and have 11 seedlings at the moment.


----------



## hogs (Mar 31, 2011)

HB...Where are they located wd. you have a link for them?
Thanks

http://www.seedbankupdate.com/su.html are they listed here?


----------



## Lt. Dan (Mar 31, 2011)

Is this what you're looking for?
https://www.seedboutique.com/index.aspx

cheers,


----------



## Illumination (Mar 31, 2011)

hogs said:


> HB...Where are they located wd. you have a link for them?
> Thanks
> 
> http://www.seedbankupdate.com/su.html are they listed here?



Yes they are listed there as a reputable seedbank with 3 1/2 stars and HB has used them reliably for years

here's the link to their site snd the seeds you two were discussing:

https://www.seedboutique.com/Products.aspx?SubCategoryId=95

Hope it helps...

Namaste'


----------



## 714Skyhi (Apr 5, 2011)

Your ak47 look great.


----------



## 714Skyhi (Apr 6, 2011)

I wanted to know what did you think about the great white and how was the smoke report?


----------



## homebrewer (Apr 7, 2011)

A big thanks to Illumination and Upthearsenal for the AK47 reviews. The reviews are cut-and-pasted below:


Illumination:



> Strain: Serious Seeds AK - 47 Homebrewer style...lolBag
> 
> Appeal: 8....beautiful light green with red/orange hairs everywhere..TRICHES nice and thick making it look pale to white even inside the bud..consistency nice and firm but not rock hard...exactly the texture I most prefer
> 
> ...


Upthearsenal :


> Serious Seeds AK47
> 
> Firstly, the bag appeal on this sample is high, very frosty. Immediately when you see it you notice the copious amounts of resin. It's not too fluffy and the nug has a very nice structure. When you break it up with you fingers they stay stinky for quite sometime.
> 
> ...


----------



## Illumination (Apr 7, 2011)

Ok now there HB...is the Great White worth the money time and effort? Lol

Namaste'


----------



## upthearsenal (Apr 7, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> How does it have a bad rap? I believe it's Serious Seeds' most award winning strain. Additionally, a lot of other breeders have knocked it off or have created hybrids out of it. If someone is disappointed in their AK47, it was either grown poorly or not the real strain from Serious seeds.
> 
> EDIT: just saw your response. Personally, it would be hard for me to get tired of a potent, social sativa that smells like mangos and ginger.


Mangoes and ginger, hmmm... I wonder if ginger was that underlying smell I was thinking of.


----------



## Illumination (Apr 8, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> Mangoes and ginger, hmmm... I wonder if ginger was that underlying smell I was thinking of.


There was some spice in there especially the intake hit...and barely underlying the citrusy peachy....I thought mangoes too but citrus peach was what it smelled to me...lol

Namaste'


----------



## homebrewer (Apr 8, 2011)

Illumination said:


> There was some spice in there especially the intake hit...and barely underlying the citrusy peachy....I thought mangoes too but citrus peach was what it smelled to me...lol
> 
> Namaste'


When the plants are alive and growing, they're obviously more fragrant. Mangos, citrus, grapefruit, peach, pineapple, are all good descriptors for the lighter fruit notes but there is some kind of ginger or 'orange zest' sort of aroma too. Not sure if that carries over to the dried product but that's my impression anyways.


----------



## burrr (Apr 8, 2011)

Doe you know what nutrients the bacteria makes more available?


----------



## homebrewer (Apr 8, 2011)

burrr said:


> Doe you know what nutrients the bacteria makes more available?


 I do not know which ones specifically as I just saw a greater overall sensitivity to nutes when using GW. It just took less to keep them green and to yield well. I also kept the ratios of grow and bloom the same throughout flowering so it's not like one or the other seemed to be 'too much', I just assumed both.


----------



## gstringer (Apr 8, 2011)

Im not shure how to PM but this was a great journal. I learned alot as i have off all your journals Great job and + rep to you sir uncle rico is the man


----------



## fallinprince (Apr 17, 2011)

DAMN i read this whole thread just to get to the end and have to pm u. as i already own a batch of this crap that was paid for by a former partner. it sounded to me like the fluctuations in the uptake and the overall cost of the product makes it pointless. 

my next grow im going to invest in growing ebb and flow style just like you this sounds INSANELY simple.

Any Chance i could get a break down or a thread referral for your current setup and methods used

Do you Fim / top? Have you ever tried the "Sea of Green" method

Thx for your response


----------



## homebrewer (Apr 17, 2011)

fallinprince said:


> Any Chance i could get a break down or a thread referral for your current setup and methods used


Check out the journals in my sig, there should be plenty of info in there as to how I operate.




> Do you Fim / top? Have you ever tried the "Sea of Green" method


I top in veg and supercrop in flower. SOG is more for particular strains and when plant numbers aren't a concern. Plant numbers are a concern for me and I don't have any strains that would do well with SOG.


----------



## hogs (May 13, 2011)

Great Thread, Loads of Quality info input from you HB..Much appreciated it, reading your other threads now..All the BEST Buddy!!!!


----------



## CEAhaze (Jun 5, 2011)

how long was your veg? What was your ppm? Those plants look small and skinny. I also read your reply on the other thread about advances connessueir. I tried both connessueir and sensi bloom and there's really no difference other than connessueir rapes you with the price.


----------



## GreenthumBum (Jun 9, 2011)

Has anyone used WHITE WIDOW? It is a beneficial microbe powder.


----------



## marijuanaBAG (Aug 3, 2011)

homebrew im usin dynagro grow and bloom for a dcw system how much should i add per gal and is there anything else i should add to the water besides the dynagro


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 3, 2011)

great white is great stuff man if you use with HG roots excelerator your roots go fucking crazy nice journal good information


----------



## upthearsenal (Aug 4, 2011)

Illumination said:


> errr umm that is Great White which is fungi and what was used here...White Widow is a strain....you're new to this right?


http://www.google.com/search?q=Humboldt+Nutrients:+White+Widow?+Humboldt+Roots?+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=mS2&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=shop&source=hp&q=Humboldt+Nutrients+White+Widow&pbx=1&oq=Humboldt+Nutrients+White+Widow&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=58544l58544l1l59235l1l1l0l0l0l0l285l285l2-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e0a0def433863a39&biw=1280&bih=642


----------



## Trichy Bastard (Aug 5, 2011)

upthearsenal said:


> http://www.google.com/search?q=Humboldt+Nutrients:+White+Widow?+Humboldt+Roots?+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=mS2&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=shop&source=hp&q=Humboldt+Nutrients+White+Widow&pbx=1&oq=Humboldt+Nutrients+White+Widow&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=58544l58544l1l59235l1l1l0l0l0l0l285l285l2-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e0a0def433863a39&biw=1280&bih=642


Yeah, funny- my first instinct was to correct, and then I remembered seein that jar and let it go... But he was right until recently that stuff popped up


----------



## johny1212 (Sep 21, 2011)

Hey HB,
Sorry to be a pain in the ass. I wanted to get the results on the great white run but can't PM you. Could you PM me? Currently switching to DG from AN


----------



## homebrewer (Sep 21, 2011)

johny1212 said:


> Hey HB,
> Sorry to be a pain in the ass. I wanted to get the results on the great white run but can't PM you. Could you PM me? Currently switching to DG from AN


 I don't know how many posts you need but it looks like you don't have enough to send or receive PMs.


----------



## johny1212 (Oct 12, 2011)

Gotcha, I don't have a whole lot to post about at this point just getting going. Anyway you are the one person I have found that makes any fucking sense. Just had a shit run with an and just getting some babies going. I wondered if you would use GW again or not? Also do you have a rough feed\EC schedule with proportions of grow, bloom etc? I have some 3 week-old seedlings and don't want to get off track. I have DG grow, bloom, protekt, mag-pro, floralicios plus and great white running tap water at 80-90 ppm. Top drip to waste in rockwool. If you could give me some direction I would be eternaLly grateful! You are definitely the shit. I like your no bullshit approach!


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 12, 2011)

johny1212 said:


> Gotcha, I don't have a whole lot to post about at this point just getting going. Anyway you are the one person I have found that makes any fucking sense. Just had a shit run with an and just getting some babies going. I wondered if you would use GW again or not? Also do you have a rough feed\EC schedule with proportions of grow, bloom etc? I have some 3 week-old seedlings and don't want to get off track. I have DG grow, bloom, protekt, mag-pro, floralicios plus and great white running tap water at 80-90 ppm. Top drip to waste in rockwool. If you could give me some direction I would be eternaLly grateful! You are definitely the shit. I like your no bullshit approach!


I feed at about .7 EC in veg and around 1.2 in flower. Veg is just grow and protekt. Flower I use everything. 85% of my EC is a mix of grow and bloom and that mix depends on the week of flowering. Roughly 5% is protekt and the remaining 10% is magpro. When I feed, I refer to an excel spreadsheet I put together which allows me to play with the mls/gallon values of the products to hit a desirable EC. Protekt and magpro are pretty much the same from start to finish, the ratio of grow to bloom changes. Sorry to be a little vague but what works for me may not be optimal for you, but I think the parameters above will put you in the right direction. Don't be afraid to feed lighter than I do to start. Burr gets great results feeding about 15% lower than I do.


----------



## johny1212 (Oct 12, 2011)

Sweet, thanks. I just needed a good baseline. I will definitely start light like you say. Everyone else is always talking EC 2.0-2.4 during flower and if you follow most lables that shit goes to like 3.0 depending. AN is horrible that way. Thanks for your help. You are my hero


----------



## Illumination (Oct 12, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I don't know how many posts you need but it looks like you don't have enough to send or receive PMs.



He needs 50 posts

HB how have u been my friend?

Namaste'


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 12, 2011)

Illumination said:


> He needs 50 posts
> 
> HB how have u been my friend?
> 
> Namaste'


 Things are good, can't really complain. Been experimenting with some crosses recently which is always exciting if you're working with good parents. How about you, anything new?


----------



## johny1212 (Oct 12, 2011)

Illumination said:


> He needs 50 posts
> 
> HB how have u been my friend?
> 
> Namaste'


Good to know, thanks for the help!


----------



## kriznarf (Oct 26, 2011)

Just read through the entire thread and wanted to say thanks for taking the time to keep this journal and answer everybody's questions, HB. I know this could have been said in a PM, but I'm happy to bump a such an informative thread for newer members like myself who may not have caught this info the first time around.

+Rep


----------



## Springtucky (Oct 27, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Things are good, can't really complain. Been experimenting with some crosses recently which is always exciting if you're working with good parents. How about you, anything new?


 Maybe a topic for your next write up? Or even a pheno selection process like you had mentioned earlier in journal with the kali mist. Any chance of you working with Dumpster at some point? I thought about trying to find a good NL male and cubing it if I could manage it someday. I want to be a tester if you ever think of releasing anything. With as many folks as you've helped to grow healthy plants and understand a little basic plant nutrition I'm sure they'd be in demand.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 27, 2011)

Springtucky said:


> Maybe a topic for your next write up? Or even a pheno selection process like you had mentioned earlier in journal with the kali mist. Any chance of you working with Dumpster at some point? I thought about trying to find a good NL male and cubing it if I could manage it someday. I want to be a tester if you ever think of releasing anything. With as many folks as you've helped to grow healthy plants and understand a little basic plant nutrition I'm sure they'd be in demand.


 Actually, I'm in the middle of the selection process right now with my strain. I'm slowly working my way through 12 females, I think I've sampled 4 now and eliminated 2 or 3 others just based on aroma and flowering-time alone. I will have a tray of my two favorites so far in about 1 month so maybe i'll do a journal just to show them off? 

Dumpster would be a fun strain to work with in the future just because it's so resinous and is done in 60 days. Maybe I could keep the resin production and the shorter flowering time but breed out the indica?


----------



## Illumination (Oct 27, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> Actually, I'm in the middle of the selection process right now with my strain. I'm slowly working my way through 12 females, I think I've sampled 4 now and eliminated 2 or 3 others just based on aroma and flowering-time alone. I will have a tray of my two favorites so far in about 1 month so maybe i'll do a journal just to show them off?
> 
> Dumpster would be a fun strain to work with in the future just because it's so resinous and is done in 60 days. Maybe I could keep the resin production and the shorter flowering time but breed out the indica?


That and the next time one of them Kalis is real racy and trippy scary shit I would LOVE to do a very righteous smoke report for ya there my friend! LOL... And I want to again tell you that AK was the best smelling weed I have had in very long time if ever. Man that shit smelled sooooooooooo good. Tasted really good too. But seems like you are chasing another grail there and am very interested in the outcome. And lol...indica free dumpster!!

Also I see that alot of your brewing knowledge is applicable and gives you a deeper understanding of horticulture as well. My minor in chemistry really helps me understand nutes and how they interact. Is also why I use chems almost exclusively as I know it and my results show it to be just as if not more so a better product. Everytime I have employed "organics" aside from mineralization of the soiless medium (love me some azomite/lime/de) all it ever doers is through shit outta whack, lol.

Namaste'


----------



## Springtucky (Oct 27, 2011)

you mean to where you can smoke it and stay awake longer than 25 minutes? Seriously HB, what's the percentage of amber trichs do you pull your Dumpster at? I wish it was less narcotic I guess.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 27, 2011)

Illumination said:


> That and the next time one of them Kalis is real racy and trippy scary shit I would LOVE to do a very righteous smoke report for ya there my friend! LOL... And I want to again tell you that AK was the best smelling weed I have had in very long time if ever. Man that shit smelled sooooooooooo good. Tasted really good too. But seems like you are chasing another grail there and am very interested in the outcome. And lol...indica free dumpster!!
> 
> Also I see that alot of your brewing knowledge is applicable and gives you a deeper understanding of horticulture as well. My minor in chemistry really helps me understand nutes and how they interact. Is also why I use chems almost exclusively as I know it and my results show it to be just as if not more so a better product. Everytime I have employed "organics" aside from mineralization of the soiless medium (love me some azomite/lime/de) all it ever doers is through shit outta whack, lol.
> 
> Namaste'


 I think you had a few beans in your sample so hopefully when you get some space, you'll germ those and let me know how they turn out. Kali x AK was the accidental cross there since pollen chucking isn't an exact science . I'd be happy to get a sample to you when everything is said and done with my new strain for an official review. It takes me a month to pick apart a strain as well as you did in a single session. Both you and upthearsenal did an excellent job! 



Springtucky said:


> you mean to where you can smoke it and stay awake longer than 25 minutes? Seriously HB, what's the percentage of amber trichs do you pull your Dumpster at? I wish it was less narcotic I guess.


I pull at about half clear half cloudy which always seems to be at day 60. It's still narcotic and 'couchlocky', not my thing but patients love it.


----------



## johny1212 (Nov 1, 2011)

Hey homebrewer. Thanks for all your posts and info. I just started a new run with Dyna-Gro and so far I fucking LOVE it! I mix it up and th ph is dead on at 5.8 with the right proportions of protekt and grow. Plants are very healthy and no weirdness or ph swings. Running .8 EC for veg and they love it. I am doing a journal for this one if you want to check it out-
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/482613-first-grow-journal-nirvana-super.html


----------



## Prop215Patient (Dec 1, 2011)

Awesome thread Homebrewer, I will PM you for the results once I build up my posts counts.

The Clearex test was on point and very informative, thank you for sharing!


----------



## crash1522 (Mar 26, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Day 22 today and today will be my first 'leaching of salts' along with a normally scheduled res change. I leach salts every 3 weeks and I believe that keeping your medium clean is essential to maintaining healthy plants until harvest day.
> 
> This past week I noticed something that I also noticed on my first run with _Great White_. Even when using 'synthetic' nutrients, beneficials _do_ aide in the uptake of mineral salts. I'm feeding at about 1.3 EC or 950ppm on the 442 scale and this past week I noticed a slight touch of tip burn. This is nothing I'm worried about and something I noticed at normal feeding levels during my first run with this product as well. My fix during the last test was to cut back the nutes 5-10% which is what I'll do this time too.
> 
> Again, the pH is unaffected by the beneficials and as far as plant health and growth rate goes, everything seems to be on schedule.



What is the leaching of salts you refer to.


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 26, 2012)

crash1522 said:


> What is the leaching of salts you refer to.


I run tap water through the tops of the blocks every 3 weeks in flower to avoid salt buildup.


----------



## crash1522 (Mar 26, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I run tap water through the tops of the blocks every 3 weeks in flower to avoid salt buildup.


i just switched from soil not long ago and have a little learning curve to dwc. how often do you flood when using blocks the size your using in your setup


----------



## homebrewer (Mar 27, 2012)

crash1522 said:


> i just switched from soil not long ago and have a little learning curve to dwc. how often do you flood when using blocks the size your using in your setup


I flood three times per day in flower.


----------



## Izoc666 (Apr 17, 2012)

Finally i read all of this pages, HB !

last time i was at the grow room store, and I saw the Great White on the shelves that bring me to here to check it out. Im much interested if this product is worth to buy ?

Again your thread is awesome, good job , sir !

Happy growing.


----------



## Trichy Bastard (Apr 17, 2012)

Homebrewer -I'm excited to try a new method for keeping my mothers, I have opted to try your sunshine #4 (first time using it) with the dyna-gro I have... Will keep you posted in the progress. Is there any tips you might pass on?


----------



## homebrewer (Apr 18, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Homebrewer -I'm excited to try a new method for keeping my mothers, I have opted to try your sunshine #4 (first time using it) with the dyna-gro I have... Will keep you posted in the progress. Is there any tips you might pass on?


I mix my promix with about 40% medium size vermiculite. As far as feeding and watering, just water when needed and feed them like you'd feed any other veggin plant (lightly). It's pretty simple to keep moms in promix.


----------



## Trichy Bastard (Apr 18, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I mix my promix with about 40% medium size vermiculite. As far as feeding and watering, just water when needed and feed them like you'd feed any other veggin plant (lightly). It's pretty simple to keep moms in promix.


Perfect! That's exactly the tip I was looking for... I remembered something about that when I read the thread, but sheesh that was a year ago now... Do you use promix, or sunshine (is there a noteable difference)? (It's really my first time ever using an inert soil.) Lastly, how is the ph- I have the sunshine mix, so should I ph my water/nutes to around 6.5?


----------



## homebrewer (Apr 18, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Perfect! That's exactly the tip I was looking for... I remembered something about that when I read the thread, but sheesh that was a year ago now... Do you use promix, or sunshine (is there a noteable difference)? (It's really my first time ever using an inert soil.) Lastly, how is the ph- I have the sunshine mix, so should I ph my water/nutes to around 6.5?


I've used both sunshine mix and promix and they're both great. B'cuzz hydro mix feels the same as the other two but I don't like it. 

When feeding, I mix in protekt, then my grow, and the ratio I use of both brings my pH into the mid-6's. You'll have to play around with that ratio to see what brings you into that range. Maybe 2 and 2 works? Maybe 4 and 3 works? Experiment.


----------



## Trichy Bastard (Apr 18, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I've used both sunshine mix and promix and they're both great. B'cuzz hydro mix feels the same as the other two but I don't like it.
> 
> When feeding, I mix in protekt, then my grow, and the ratio I use of both brings my pH into the mid-6's. You'll have to play around with that ratio to see what brings you into that range. Maybe 2 and 2 works? Maybe 4 and 3 works? Experiment.


Cool HB, thanks again man... If you remember my first message as a new member last year, you're the reason I decided to join RIU and you still have all the respect I can give a guy... Btw- if you wanna hear something shocking, my aero mentor here "tree farmer" seems to be able to get over 3g/watt- and runs no more than 800 ppm -hows that for inspiring!


----------



## homebrewer (Apr 18, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Cool HB, thanks again man... If you remember my first message as a new member last year, you're the reason I decided to join RIU and you still have all the respect I can give a guy... Btw- if you wanna hear something shocking, my aero mentor here "tree farmer" seems to be able to get over 3g/watt- and runs no more than 800 ppm -hows that for inspiring!


Got a link to Tree Farmer's threads or posts or pics? I'm personally skeptical of anyone who claims to pull over 1g/watt unless they're running vertical or light movers. If I were getting 3g/watt with my 600's, that would be 63 ounces per light which would be physically impossible to fit under the 'light footprint' of my 600.


----------



## Trichy Bastard (Apr 18, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Got a link to Tree Farmer's threads or posts or pics? I'm personally skeptical of anyone who claims to pull over 1g/watt unless they're running vertical or light movers. If I were getting 3g/watt with my 600's, that would be 63 ounces per light which would be physically impossible to fit under the 'light footprint' of my 600.


Well, he's not the type to generally brag and is pretty modest so I don't know if it's going to be the kind of proof you're looking for. But he definitely is doing some stuff no one else on the planet is as far as I am concerned. He mainly talks about the system's he develops and how they work. Somewhere's in my thread he mentioned his numbers once, and I just know he's not got anything to prove to anyone and wouldn't lie. I completely understand being skeptical and don't fault you there.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/trees-and-aero.15936/
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/254876-my-true-hp-aero-plug.html

Ahhh lol- I was wrong- and sorry for that, it was 2.5-3 pounds per 1000 watt, so thats around or a bit over 1g/watt- it's here in this thread between post 101- and 110...
https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted-4.html#post6920125

Good thing you called me out otherwise I would have been just another person spreading fairly tales out there


----------



## homebrewer (Apr 18, 2012)

Trichy Bastard said:


> Ahhh lol- I was wrong- and sorry for that, it was 2.5-3 pounds per 1000 watt, so thats around or a bit over 1g/watt- it's here in this thread between post 101- and 110...
> https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/492029-aerojunkies-high-pressure-air-assisted-4.html#post6920125
> 
> Good thing you called me out otherwise I would have been just another person spreading fairly tales out there


It's looks like he's growing some larger plants with some hanging bulbs and in that case I'd think his numbers are completely realistic for someone who knows their shiz. Looks like a good person to look up to for sure.


----------



## Trichy Bastard (Apr 18, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> It's looks like he's growing some larger plants with some hanging bulbs and in that case I'd think his numbers are completely realistic for someone who knows their shiz. Looks like a good person to look up to for sure.


He doesn't call himself "tree farmer" for nuttin- lol Yes man - in my opinion he is a very good person to listen to. . But so are you for the things you focus on... I'm just trying to take the best info I can from everyone and incorporate it into my own style and belief system. For the most part, in my mind all three of us see things similarly despite our different approaches. I'm not here for the sole purpose of just growing, for me it's a passion to try to be the best and also I enjoy tinkering with the technological approach. Thanks again friend.


----------



## Stonefree69 (May 13, 2012)

I'd assume homebrewer isn't using Great White anymore just as I'm not using anymore mykos in my hydro res. Notice I said assume!


----------



## homebrewer (May 13, 2012)

Stonefree69 said:


> I'd assume homebrewer isn't using Great White anymore just as I'm not using anymore mykos in my hydro res. Notice I said assume!


I actually just finished up a tray where I used it again and I'm seeing the same things that I saw the last times I've used it.


----------



## Trichy Bastard (Jun 1, 2012)

I just read something the other day that made me think of this thread. It was about how ammoniacal nitrogen needed bacteria to break it down into a useable form for the plants. That would explain why the product here seemed to make your nutes more potent, the nitrogen was more available because Dyna-gro tends to have a little more nitrogen in this form than other similar products (likely to stabilize ph). Wish I could find the link now...


----------



## prestone (Jun 23, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> I actually just finished up a tray where I used it again and I'm seeing the same things that I saw the last times I've used it.


I have several friends that swear by GW. I would love to see the results on your test.


----------



## TheGreenHornet (Sep 10, 2012)

Just read this thread from start to finish. Great info.


----------



## Sencha (Oct 10, 2012)

Cool, cool. Thumbs up all around. I especially like the clearex test. Should do a molassas side by side next time, @1tablespoon/gallon. I don't use it for carbo. I'm not good at predicting finish time so I just use this for three days before chop. No other flush.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 10, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Cool, cool. Thumbs up all around. I especially like the clearex test. Should do a molassas side by side next time, @1tablespoon/gallon. I don't use it for carbo. I'm not good at predicting finish time so I just use this for three days before chop. No other flush.


I would _never_ put molasses in any medium I grow in, especially hydro.


----------



## Sencha (Oct 11, 2012)

Works better than Clerex and you spent x10 on that. Whatever.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 11, 2012)

Sencha said:


> Works better than Clerex and you spent x10 on that. Whatever.


_
You_ leach salts with molasses?


----------



## Sencha (Oct 11, 2012)

I sure do. A table spoon of molasses has 5.8 g of sucrose, 2.4 g of glucose, and 2.5 g of fructose.

Sugar in, salt out. That's what clearex is too.

I know it's not the same thing, but they used to soak rusted parts in molasses and water to leach the rust. It has it's uses, it's cheap, it works.

Hell, you can even use it in aero. Trust me, I've never seen it clog a sprayer.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 11, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I sure do. A table spoon of molasses has 5.8 g of sucrose, 2.4 g of glucose, and 2.5 g of fructose.
> 
> Sugar in, salt out. That's what clearex is too.


Plants already make their own sugars and anything else that molasses is bringing to the table can be found in plant food bottles for much cheaper. In regards to leaching salts, tap water or RO with a touch of calmag does the job without the negatives that excess carbs can cause in your medium. I'm not a molasses fan for inorganic growing.


----------



## Sencha (Oct 11, 2012)

I use it for 3-5 days before harvest dude. All it does is help rinse away salt. You can't do that cheaper, and plain sugar water doesn't work. You said you don't flush but you ran a clearex experiment. I don't get it. I'm telling you it works better then clearex and all you would have to do is check it out to see.

The only other thing molasses does is feed micos and add iron. Can't do that any cheaper either.

3 days before harvest is not enough to build up residual carbs.


----------



## homebrewer (Oct 11, 2012)

Sencha said:


> I use it for 3-5 days before harvest dude. All it does is help rinse away salt. * You can't do that cheaper*, and plain sugar water doesn't work. You said you don't flush but you ran a clearex experiment. I don't get it. I'm telling you it works better then clearex and all you would have to do is check it out to see.
> 
> The only other thing molasses does is feed micos and add iron. Can't do that any cheaper either.
> 
> 3 days before harvest is not enough to build up residual carbs.


Water is cheaper than molasses.

You're right, I don't flush. The clearex experiment was for _leaching_. 

As far as molasses goes, maybe check out the organic section if you're looking for someone to agree with you.


----------



## Sencha (Oct 11, 2012)

I've used it for the same thing you used the clearex for. Leaching, flushing, no reason to split hairs. With a name like homebrewer I'd think you'd be a little more open to this trick.

Sorry for the bother. Just because it wasn't your idea doesn't make it wrong. I'm not the only one on these boards that does this. If you can make something better then clearex for much less, why not?

Peace.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 19, 2012)

Molasses is to feed the bennies and get thegoing. No idea what you think is going in. The plant doesnt use it. People should research what they are doing more. Your plant produces its own food for the bennies at the roots. The idea is that they will eat all the molasses before you dump it on your roota,oe res. Sorry on my phone so thats all the time im putting on that.


----------



## unknown2u (Dec 29, 2012)

I have to tell you hb it is very frustrating to be researching a product and then find a thread like this that is testing that product only to spend I don't know how long reading every page only to find out you are not going to give the results because you don't like some of the people on this forum. What about the rest of us that want to know if the stuff is worth our time and money and can't PM you for the answer. I have never met you so there is no reason for you to not like me but you have wasted my time and others because you don't like someone else. Doesn't make a lot of sense from my end.


----------



## Trichy Bastard (Mar 13, 2013)

For every person he's rubbed the wrong way, he's been a favorite to a hundred others. Mostly I see a certain personality type not appreciating or understanding him- and that's just fine- no need to post, just keep moving along and find what meshes with your personality. I for one joined this site due to his threads- had no problem pming him for the results, and it started a further level of knowing eachother- so perhaps a different approach is all that's needed in order to get something from this thread, and plenty was taught along the way without that single final result. Good luck- wish you well...


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 13, 2013)

Word, if you don't agree with him fine. Do what works for you. I don't agree with everything he does, but that doesn't mean he is wrong. I just do what works for me. I guarantee you every answer you need to grow good bud with dyna-gro is somewhere in the few threads he has running here. Go to the threads, then search what you are asking about.


----------



## AeroPonicsWizaRd (Mar 20, 2013)

i feed the benes sweet from botanicaire works good


----------



## Theophilus (May 29, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> I would _never_ put molasses in any medium I grow in, especially hydro.


What do you think about adding an occasional compost tea along with running chemical ferts? I have seen a simple tea that consists of EWC, fish, kelp and molasses brewed for 12 to 24 hours depending on temperature and then added to plants every 10 days or so. Would that be of no added benefit?


----------



## homebrewer (May 29, 2015)

Theophilus said:


> What do you think about adding an occasional compost tea along with running chemical ferts? I have seen a simple tea that consists of EWC, fish, kelp and molasses brewed for 12 to 24 hours depending on temperature and then added to plants every 10 days or so. Would that be of no added benefit?


The only thing I'd worry about is attracting bugs. That being said, there are some 'clean' products out there that wont attract bugs and will probably yield the same benefit as your homemade tea. Floralicious and Florablend from GH are both products I've used at some point.


----------



## TY4PotSmoking (Jun 23, 2016)

homebrewer said:


> Ok, so the smoke report is in and I've tested the final product myself as well. The thing is, I really don't like where this forum is headed and can't stand the bad info and shitty grows that come from a lot of the trolls around here. Basically, there are a lot of people on here that I don't like and don't want to help. For those of you who would like my impressions of _Great White_ in hydro, send me a PM and I'll cut and paste my write up to you. Cheers guys and thanks for following along. We should be seeing some smoke reports from a few members in early April.


Hi homebrewer, Long time fan and follower here. Thank you for providing me with an invaluable education FREE of charge! Im afraid that I do not have much to contribute here. Ive had merely 3 successful harvests (still in school and live with parents). Yet I am insatiably curious for one day I will have many experiences and proper "homebrewer style" scientific method experiments to post. Can you please share your results of this test I have quoted? Its been 5 years I hope our trolls are long gone.


----------



## Cheec (Dec 20, 2016)

So what's the report? I'm thinking of doing tea a cup a gallon through the hydroton, let it ride it's 48 life span, wait abother day, then do food grade h202 then after 4 days add bennie tea again. Whats your advice?


----------



## Cheec (Dec 20, 2016)

Or what about having a float valve and bennies aerating in the full bucket? Keep em alive while you replenish slowly?


----------



## homebrewer (Dec 20, 2016)

Cheec said:


> So what's the report? I'm thinking of doing tea a cup a gallon through the hydroton, let it ride it's 48 life span, wait abother day, then do food grade h202 then after 4 days add bennie tea again. Whats your advice?


Sounds like too much work to me and I don't think it would have any benefit.


----------

