# CO2 Generator With Sentinel CHHC-1 and 4x4 Tent



## Bob Smith (Dec 7, 2009)

Hello all, have a couple of questions for anyone familiar with generators - thinking of ordering this one in a couple of days, but had some questions first:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CAP-GEN-1-CO2-GENERATOR-BURNER_W0QQitemZ360205409854QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53ddea5e3e

Now, I currently have 3 20# CO2 tanks (with a regulator, obviously - check out my journal for pics and more info, if you're interested), and the PPMs are controlled by my Sentinel, keeping my tent at a steady 1500PPMs while the lights are on.

Go through about three tanks a month and don't want to go through the hassle (and shadiness) of refilling them once a month, so I'm going to a use a propane generator.

So, my questions are as follows:

1) How does the CO2 flow out of the generator? Is there a way to connect the tubing to it, or does it just escape from the generator willy nilly? 

2) If it does escape from the generator willy nilly, how would I pump it into my tent in any controlled fashion using my Sentinel? If anyone has dealt with this problem and has pics, would love them.

3) Do I need any parts other then the generator and a propane tank? Excluding ducting (if I need to jury rig something together), because I have ducting galore.

That's it for now, +rep to anyone who's got some input for me.

Thanks for your time, appreciate it.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 7, 2009)

By the way, another question was if it was worth the extra $50 to get the electronic ignition feature - for some reason, I'd think a pilot would be more dependable (just going off of my barbecue experience - seems like the electronic ignition always seem to break on barbecues, so I'd assume the same would happen on a CO2 generator, no?

Any input on electronic ignitions for generators (good or bad) is greatly appreciated.


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## torontoone (Dec 7, 2009)

Um, a CO2 generator is nothing more than gas heater. There is NO WAY a sentinal unit will work in a 4x4 tent. The heat would be enormous. I have this exact setup in a 20x20 room and it causes heat issues. 

You have to place the generator IN the room. There is no way to "Pump" it.

Stick to the bottles.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 7, 2009)

torontoone said:


> Um, a CO2 generator is nothing more than gas heater. There is NO WAY a sentinal unit will work in a 4x4 tent. The heat would be enormous. I have this exact setup in a 20x20 room and it causes heat issues.
> 
> Stick to the bottles.


EDIT: I didn't explain very well. I have a 20x10 garage, and the 4x4 tent (as well as a 2x4 veg tent) are both inside of it. I was planning on having the generator next to the tent, and having a way to pump the CO2 into the tent, while keeping the generator in the general garage area. As it's wintertime around here now, I'm 100% sure that heat will not be an issue until at least March or April.

I think you're missing the gist of the question - I was planning on having the generator outside of the tent, and having the CO2 get pumped into the tent.

And the Sentinel is my atmospheric controller, the generator would be the CAP Gen-1, which produces anywhere from 3-12K BTUs if constantly run for an hour.

As it is right now, I have a heater in my temp to keeps temps up, as it's only ~55F in my garage.

And there's no way I'm sticking to the bottles, although I appreciate your input - I'm sure others have run generators with tents, and I'm curious how they've done it.

+rep for you, though.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 8, 2009)

Well, I went ahead and bought it, so now we're gonna have to figure out how to "pump it into the room".

Would building a wooden box around it work, with airholes at the bottom for passive intake, and an inline fan attached to a hole at the top work?

Figure I'd hook both the fan and the generator up to the Sentinel, so the generator would fire on, and the inline fan would pull the CO2 enriched air from the box and into my tent - with the passive intake at the bottom, there would (theoretically) be enough oxygen for the generator to continue working, correct?

Besides burning the block down if I didn't do it correctly, can anyone think of any reason that this wouldn't work? Would the box get too hot and the CO2 enriched air be crazy hot when I pumped it into the tent?

Never used a generator, so anyone who has and can see a flaw with this logic, please chime in.

Thanks much.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 8, 2009)

Bump?

Anybody ever run a generator outside of their grow room and pumped the CO2 in somehow?

Throw me a bone here............


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## caspo33 (Dec 8, 2009)

Good Question, Would Like to Know the answer aswell!!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

Generator's getting delivered tomorrow, so I need to run it for a bit and see if my vision fits its reality, but my plan right now is this:

Gonna build a plywood box around the generator with 6" flange up top and many 1.5" holes drilled around the bottom for intake.

Going to have a 4" inline fan (170CFM) mounted on the ceiling, and have them both hooked up to my Sentinel, so when the generator's on, the fan will be as well, keeping the heat down in the box and somewhat mitigating the fire risk.

I'm also going to have my CO2 and "Cooling" functions on my Sentinel set so that my exhaust can run when my CO2 is running (because not too worried about waste with a generator) - figure the CO2 enriched air will be kinda warm, so wanna let the tent be able to cool while also being CO2 enriched.

Going to get a fire extinguisher and mount it above the box, one of the ones that automatically dispenses if it hits 155F.

Anyone have any thoughts/issues regarding this?

BTW, the tubing is going to be about 20 feet from the generator to the tent - purposefully making it as long as possible to:

1) minimize the strength of the fan and therefore the positive pressure, letting as little smells as possible escape

2) hopefully let some of the heat dissipate whilst still retaining all of the CO2.

Questions, comments, criticisms, and ideas always appreciated.


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## drywall (Dec 16, 2009)

propane burns consuming O2 and produces CO2 therefore you need a supply of oxygen or your propane cannot burn. my first idea would be to enclose the burner in a metal cabinet (don't use wood it will burn) with holes in the top equipped with downward facing fans to force O2 into the chamber then run tubes from the bottom of the cabinet to your room. a sentinel will control your burner but don't use the fuzzy logic mode. if my plan works the generator should burn and slowly fill the chamber although CO2 is heavier and falls to the floor the initial heat will cause it to rise. hopefully the downforce created by the fans will keep it in the chamber where once cooled it can travel through the tubes and into your room. just a thought im no pro


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## tea tree (Dec 16, 2009)

what is the heat like? I am also looking at a one burner for a room that has a tent. I am far off but knowing that heat would help me out. Ty.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 16, 2009)

Drywall, seems like I have that problem licked for the time being, but I'll post pics and my setup once I'm sure.

Tea tree, heading off to Home Depot right now to get a couple tanks of propane, will let you know later.


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## drywall (Dec 16, 2009)

I am excited to see how long a tank of propane lasts compared to CO2


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

drywall said:


> I am excited to see how long a tank of propane lasts compared to CO2


A 20lb. tank of CO2 lasts me a week @1500PPMs; a 20lb. propane tank should last me a few months, at least.

My journal has the numbers broken down for you.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> A 20lb. tank of CO2 lasts me a week @1500PPMs; a 20lb. propane tank should last me a few months, at least.
> 
> My journal has the numbers broken down for you.


This is still very silly. You are going to put a propane burner/co2 generator OUTSIDE of a 4x4 tent and rig up a way to pump it into the tent?

I think you may have lost your mind a bit here. Is there a lack of fresh air in your grow space? I would not suggest putting a HOT propane BURNER in a wooden box. 

The only way that I can see this working (which is still silly) would be to build a room to put it in. Not a little box, as big a room as possible. Have a controller keep that room at say 3000ppm, then have the controller for your tent pump that air in to maintain the 1500ppm your are looking for. But the whole thing you realize is fuckin' retarded for a 4x4 tent right? 

Have you completed a grow in this tent WITHOUT Co2? 

Have you completed a grow in this tent with your current bottle setup?

Why are you going through all of this when you don't know what the potential gain is? I'm tellin you, it's not going to work miracles in a 4x4 space for you compared with a source a fresh air.

The poster on the first page with a 20x20 space....a burner in the space makes sense. Running Co2 makes sense. 'Nigga Riggin' a propane burner for a tiny tent is just plain silly. Could've bought new lights and bigger tents. Could've gone away from the tents and used the entire garage, so many ways to improve your yield compared to what you are trying right now. Just plain sillyness.

I'm not tryin' to dig at ya, I'm trying to put it in perspective. How much have you spent on Co2 supplementation already? On the Sentinel controller, the tanks, the refills all of it? Was any of it worth it for a 4x4 tent? Anyone else think this is just plain crazy?


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## regrets (Dec 17, 2009)

May be too late but I have a few points that may help. First off absolutely do not build the box out of plywood, major fire hazard, even if your fire extinguisher works you will have ruined the box anyhow and soaked your generator (with electronic ignition). Also if I were you I would concentrate on building the box as large as you can to ensure that the cfm's aren't swirling air to the point that either the flame is constantly blown out or you re sucking in with it such high levels of air that your system can't get the ppms up properly. Also it is a terrible idea to have your exhaust running during the hours the generator is on, this will run through tremendous amounts of propane and you will be back at the store refilling your tank weekly. If your garage is cool anyhow, and probably getting cooler as the winter progresses the heat from your generator may be a welcome side effect for the flowering chamber, especially since your plants work better with co2 when the temps are higher (mid 80's is no problem). Good luck with everything, and let us know how this works out.


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## regrets (Dec 17, 2009)

To laserbrn- Most people don't have the ability to just fill their garage or any prt of there house for that matter with lights and plants (Maybe you live in a land without cops, neighbors or family, but we can't all be that lucky.). For whatever reason the size of his set up allows for a 4x4 tent solely dedicated to flowering, not tiny by any means. Since he is confined to this space I'm sure he wants to get the most out of the area he has, in my opinion co2 is always a welcome addition to a well thought out grow. So long as it's done safely and properly it should pay itself off in the long run, though I agree that it may take a bit longer to pay off in this size space. But that is not his question.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> This is still very silly. You are going to put a propane burner/co2 generator OUTSIDE of a 4x4 tent and rig up a way to pump it into the tent?
> 
> I think you may have lost your mind a bit here. Is there a lack of fresh air in your grow space? I would not suggest putting a HOT propane BURNER in a wooden box.
> 
> ...


Well, in regards to your query, I'm probably in the hole about 1.5 stacks on my CO2 setup right now (not a big deal, make that in a day playing online poker).

And I've actually revised my plan, because I found a perfect ducting part from Home Depot which fits the generator like a glove - it's just going to be hanging from a cross beam, and the 4" inline will be sucking the CO2 from it and pumping it into my grow tent; FYI, trying to get this system down before I expand to an 8x4 tent, so that it's all running well by the time that expansion comes.

Anyways, you probably have a point in that spending this much time and effort on this is not very cost effective, but I'm an unemployed bond trader, so I've got tons of time and more then enough money, so I want to do this the right way - definitely using CO2 (non-negotiable), and lugging and hiding 20lb. tanks in towels is not a very good option anymore.

Anyways, long story short, it should be up and running by tomorrow at the latest, so I'll let you guys know how it goes - I appreciate your input.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

regrets said:


> To laserbrn- Most people don't have the ability to just fill their garage or any prt of there house for that matter with lights and plants (Maybe you live in a land without cops, neighbors or family, but we can't all be that lucky.). For whatever reason the size of his set up allows for a 4x4 tent solely dedicated to flowering, not tiny by any means. Since he is confined to this space I'm sure he wants to get the most out of the area he has, in my opinion co2 is always a welcome addition to a well thought out grow. So long as it's done safely and properly it should pay itself off in the long run, though I agree that it may take a bit longer to pay off in this size space. But that is not his question.


You're joking right? Somehow he can only fit a 4x4 tent, but he's going to build a giant box for a co2 burner? That's going to take up space that could've been used for plants and lights. Other than the bottle method (that poses security risks with the lugging of bottles) there's not a way this is more efficient than more space and lights.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Well, in regards to your query, I'm probably in the hole about 1.5 stacks on my CO2 setup right now (not a big deal, make that in a day playing online poker).
> 
> And I've actually revised my plan, because I found a perfect ducting part from Home Depot which fits the generator like a glove - it's just going to be hanging from a cross beam, and the 4" inline will be sucking the CO2 from it and pumping it into my grow tent; FYI, trying to get this system down before I expand to an 8x4 tent, so that it's all running well by the time that expansion comes.
> 
> ...


Well good luck. Doesn't sound very safe. You could try getting the entire garage to 1500ppm at all times and seal it up if it's nice and cool all of the time. I'm just trying to see a way where it's efficient and not dangerous.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

regrets said:


> May be too late but I have a few points that may help. First off absolutely do not build the box out of plywood, major fire hazard, even if your fire extinguisher works you will have ruined the box anyhow and soaked your generator (with electronic ignition). Also if I were you I would concentrate on building the box as large as you can to ensure that the cfm's aren't swirling air to the point that either the flame is constantly blown out or you re sucking in with it such high levels of air that your system can't get the ppms up properly. Also it is a terrible idea to have your exhaust running during the hours the generator is on, this will run through tremendous amounts of propane and you will be back at the store refilling your tank weekly. If your garage is cool anyhow, and probably getting cooler as the winter progresses the heat from your generator may be a welcome side effect for the flowering chamber, especially since your plants work better with co2 when the temps are higher (mid 80's is no problem). Good luck with everything, and let us know how this works out.


Will do man, and the box is no longer in the plans - lemme go take a pic for you and show you what I'm thinking:



Here's a pic of the ducting piece I picked up last night - fits like a glove on the opening of the generator - FYI, there's an identical opening on the other side as well as an open bottom, so oxygen depletion should not be an issue - also not going to have it fit flush with the generator, going to have it an inch or two off of it to make sure not to put the pilot lights out.



And here's a couple more pics - the description said that it only came wiwth one burner, but that looks like four burners to me, no? I don't really know, in all honesty.......


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

regrets said:


> To laserbrn- Most people don't have the ability to just fill their garage or any prt of there house for that matter with lights and plants (Maybe you live in a land without cops, neighbors or family, but we can't all be that lucky.). For whatever reason the size of his set up allows for a 4x4 tent solely dedicated to flowering, not tiny by any means. Since he is confined to this space I'm sure he wants to get the most out of the area he has, in my opinion co2 is always a welcome addition to a well thought out grow. So long as it's done safely and properly it should pay itself off in the long run, though I agree that it may take a bit longer to pay off in this size space. But that is not his question.


100% nail on the head, although once I clean out the garage I will have enough room to upgrade to an 8x4 tent.

Garage in total measures 20x10.


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## regrets (Dec 17, 2009)

You definitely have 4 burners. That's actually a free upgrade, you managed to get. However this may not be a great thing for your setup. Your system will create more co2 at once and hence burn up more propane at once, normally this doesnt really matter, although in very large rooms it helps to keep the ppms up easier, but in your situation you may end up losing a lot more of your co2 as you are trying to suck it through the vents.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

regrets said:


> You definitely have 4 burners. That's actually a free upgrade, you managed to get. However this may not be a great thing for your setup. Your system will create more co2 at once and hence burn up more propane at once, normally this doesnt really matter, although in very large rooms it helps to keep the ppms up easier, but in your situation you may end up losing a lot more of your co2 as you are trying to suck it through the vents.


Hmmmmmm................based on the chart at the bottom of this link, it seems that the propane/CO2/BTU ratios are identical across generators, so the larger the better, methinks:

https://www.greenair.com/page/co2-generator-size-and-timing-chart.html

Also according to that chart, I'll be filling up my propane (at most) once every six weeks (based on some rough numbers), which ain't a big deal at all.

Finally, and the most important question - as the generator is mounted and hanging from a cross beam, where would the majority of the CO2 come out? Would it come out of the top because it's heated (along with the heat and the water vapor), or would it drop through the empty bottom of the generator? If dropping through the bottom because it's heavier then air, that'd be fugging perfect - the heat and water vapor goes out the top, and the (somewhat cooler) CO2 drops from the bottom.

Anyone know how that chemical reaction works, and if the CO2 would drop straight down or, being (possibly) heated, would rise initially? I guess I can have the hose attached to different parts and see what that does to the temp and PPMs in there and how quickly it does it.


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## regrets (Dec 17, 2009)

Thats a great questions, and I'm not really sure the answer though I would guess the heat would make most of it rise through the top. However with your set up I doubt it matters, since your intake fans will be sucking the co2 through rather than just allowing the co2 to dissipate naturally.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

Good point; enough talk, time to start building.


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## DubsFan (Dec 17, 2009)

I think growers need to be more like fisherman. Efficiency...meh...I could care less really. It's the fight with the gear you want to use...It doesnt matter to me what the space is or where the grow is. The fact remains that this is the grow someone wants to do. It's the fish they wanna catch. I should probably use 8lb and 10lb test when reeling in these lunker Large Mouth Bass. But that loses it's fun. I like to use 4lb sometimes. Why? Why not.

It's what they have, it's what they're using and they're looking for suggestions to make "this" work. I say pump that Co2 in safely and you're fine.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

DubsFan said:


> I think growers need to be more like fisherman. Efficiency...meh...I could care less really. It's the fight with the gear you want to use...It doesnt matter to me what the space is or where the grow is. The fact remains that this is the grow someone wants to do. It's the fish they wanna catch. I should probably use 8lb and 10lb test when reeling in these lunker Large Mouth Bass. But that loses it's fun. I like to use 4lb sometimes. Why? Why not.
> 
> It's what they have, it's what they're using and they're looking for suggestions to make "this" work. I say pump that Co2 in safely and you're fine.


The fishin line analogy isn't really a very good one. You know what happens to the guy that fishes with 4lb test to catch 8 lb fish? He breaks off his PB double digit fish when he should've had it.

Don't get me wrong, I've been known to throw 4lb test and 6lb test on my rig while fishing stripers when I know full well there's a lot of double digit fish down there. But it's not costing me $1000's.

I accept that he wants to do this whether it's efficient or not, that's why I stopped posting. If he wants to use a co2 burner/generator on a 4x4 tent, more power to ya. At least this new method doesn't involve a whole lot of build out and/or wasted space to achieve what he wants. Basically he's "upped the efficiency". It was the building a box for it, that's like building another grow room for your Co2 machine.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> The fishin line analogy isn't really a very good one. You know what happens to the guy that fishes with 4lb test to catch 8 lb fish? He breaks off his PB double digit fish when he should've had it.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I've been known to throw 4lb test and 6lb test on my rig while fishing stripers when I know full well there's a lot of double digit fish down there. But it's not costing me $1000's.
> 
> I accept that he wants to do this whether it's efficient or not, that's why I stopped posting. If he wants to use a co2 burner/generator on a 4x4 tent, more power to ya. At least this new method doesn't involve a whole lot of build out and/or wasted space to achieve what he wants. Basically he's "upped the efficiency". It was the building a box for it, that's like building another grow room for your Co2 machine.


I know that this is going to further the debate, but since I've been dragging my feet on installing this, I will say that I believe that adding CO2 is much more efficient then adding more lights/plants/etc.

Increasing my yield by 20%+ for an upfront cost of $315 (plus installation fees) and an ongoing cost of $20 per harvest is a no-brainer, IMO.

Assuming I get 1lb. without it, that'd be ~3 extra ounces with it (off of one harvest), which pays for itself several times over.

Even if the CO2 only adds 10% (which it won't, but for the sake of argument), it still pays for itself (and then some) in one harvest.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> I know that this is going to further the debate, but since I've been dragging my feet on installing this, I will say that I believe that adding CO2 is much more efficient then adding more lights/plants/etc.
> 
> Increasing my yield by 20%+ for an upfront cost of $315 (plus installation fees) and an ongoing cost of $20 per harvest is a no-brainer, IMO.
> 
> ...


$315.00? Not quite...Didn't you admit to being about $1500 into it already? So it's really $1815.00 that you're into it now? 

Spend that money on a tent a fan and a 600w light. Hell, could even go with 2x 1000w lights and pull off an extra LB lb+/harvest. That's a no brainer. 

Now if you ALREADY have spent the $1500 on the extra lights and space, THEN it can make sense to spend the money on the co2 to gain an extra 8-10oz's per harvest.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> $315.00? Not quite...Didn't you admit to being about $1500 into it already? So it's really $1815.00 that you're into it now?
> 
> Spend that money on a tent a fan and a 600w light. Hell, could even go with 2x 1000w lights and pull off an extra LB lb+/harvest. That's a no brainer.
> 
> Now if you ALREADY have spent the $1500 on the extra lights and space, THEN it can make sense to spend the money on the co2 to gain an extra 8-10oz's per harvest.


But that's the Sentinel, which was $500, and only ~$250 of which I attribute to CO2 - the other $250 I would need regardless, which is humidity and temp control (we can debate that allocation, but that's how I'm doing it).

Another $500 was the tanks, regulator, tubing, and tank refills, which is a sunk cost and can't really be attributed to the ongoing CO2 effort.

So, again, the ongoing CO2 effort is the $315 + $100 in installation fees, plus $250 (half the price of the Sentinel).

So call it $700, which will still more then make up for itself with my first harvest.

Long story short, I don't have room to add any more plants or lights right now (heading to goodwill this weekend, hopefully, to donate the TVs, stereos, couch, and other shit in the garage taking up space), and CO2 is my most efficient method of increasing my yield.

I certainly haven't gone about it in the most efficient manner, but you live and you learn - also, if temps are too hard to control in the summer, I might still use tanks and a regulator (in my new 8x4 tent).

All right, even I can't procrastinate anymore - heading to Home Depot now.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 18, 2009)

Went to Home Depot yesterday, got a tank ($50, was surprised it was that much), and am going to try and do some installation today, but I'm fairly hungover.

That being said, I'm trying to plan for the bad stuff that could happen (like the air just being way, way too hot to pump in there), and found this little guy:

http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=10418

Gonna run it before I buy that, but I'm thinking that's gonna be a necessity at some point (like the summertime).

All right, lemme go do at least a little bit of work............


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## regrets (Dec 18, 2009)

I watched the youtube video on that set up twice, and those things are amazing, but you need more than just that $150 exchanger. These systems would only be worth while in my opinion in a set up running 8 1000w lamps. Here is a link to the full set up to run that system, it's fucking expensive.
http://www.icehousedistribution.com/downloads/kit_pricing.pdf


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## Bob Smith (Dec 18, 2009)

regrets said:


> I watched the youtube video on that set up twice, and those things are amazing, but you need more than just that $150 exchanger. These systems would only be worth while in my opinion in a set up running 8 1000w lamps. Here is a link to the full set up to run that system, it's fucking expensive.
> http://www.icehousedistribution.com/downloads/kit_pricing.pdf


Looked at the link, but that's for large light systems - I just need it to remove the heat generated by my burner, which should only be running for ~5-10 minutes an hour.

Can get a 50 gallon reservoir at Home Depot for $20, a 633GPH for $40, and I already have the tubing.

Think that and the $150 exchanger is all I would need.

BTW, made some progress - installed the fan onto the crossbeams, but my headache from this hangover wouldn't let me do anymore.

Now it's just a matter of duct taping the ducting together, and hanging the generator (drill two holes, should take five minutes).


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## regrets (Dec 18, 2009)

I hear ya on the hangover. I'm in the same boat today.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 18, 2009)

regrets said:


> I hear ya on the hangover. I'm in the same boat today.


Yeah, plus I lost about 2K last night playing online poker drunk at 1:00am..............annoying, to say the least.


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## regrets (Dec 18, 2009)

Another boat I have been in. I used to play for a living a few years back.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 19, 2009)

Made some good progress on the system, here's where I'm at so far - just need to run the ducting from the fan to the tent (five minutes), hook up the tank to the generator, and light the pilot (kinda nervous about that).

After that, just test it out a bit.

Anyways, here's the pics:


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## tea tree (Dec 20, 2009)

cool. I think it will boost your eild without using more power or electricity nice. How is the heat that comes off, also did it end up being a 4 burner or a 1 burner. I am sure you got that gap covered, a little sliding of pipe. What kind of wattage does the co2 burner use?


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## Bob Smith (Dec 20, 2009)

tea tree said:


> cool. I think it will boost your eild without using more power or electricity nice. How is the heat that comes off, also did it end up being a 4 burner or a 1 burner. I am sure you got that gap covered, a little sliding of pipe. What kind of wattage does the co2 burner use?


Not sure about the heat, not firing it up until tomorrow (Sundays are for football).

Everyone seems to tell me that it's a four burner, which I actually might be forced to "downgrade", but only time will tell.

As far as the gap goes, I left that on purpose - there needs to be sufficient O2 for the burner to operate, and I'm worried that a fan attached directly to it might not provide enough O2 or could blow hard enough to put the pilot out; therefore, the gap.

And as far as I know, the electrical wattage used by the unit is minimal - gotta be less then 100 watts, probably closer to ~25 (best guess pulled from my ass).


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## purrrrple (Dec 20, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Hello all, have a couple of questions for anyone familiar with generators - thinking of ordering this one in a couple of days, but had some questions first:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/CAP-GEN-1-CO2-GENERATOR-BURNER_W0QQitemZ360205409854QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53ddea5e3e
> 
> ...


A few things. I had a sentinal co2 generator and chhc1 (they got stolen but..) i was never able to get it setup right. It does produce enormous amounts of heat because it is constantly burning. It also made my plants leaves droop and they wouldnt come back up until i turned it off for a few days. I have no explanation for this.

Anyway, to adress your situation i would do either one of two things. If you tents are not 100% sealed i would just setup the generator in the garage and bring up my whole garage to 1500ppm. OR you could build some kind of box (like you said) and put a little inline fan and duct it into your tents. 

I noticed you said you needed a heater in your garage so this actually might kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Good luck


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## Bob Smith (Dec 21, 2009)

Was all set to try it out, then realized I'm gonna need an extension cord to do that...........have already been to Home Depot twice today, so it's gonna have to wait until tomorrow.

Haven't lit the pilot yet, which I'll also do tomorrow.

Did run the fan, and it's a nice and controlled airflow, nothing too hurricane-ish.

The being said, here's what it looks like:



EDIT: you can't see in the pic, but the ducting in the tent is aimed directly at the oscillating fan, which should disperse the CO2 (and any heat) evenly throughout the tent, to prevent plants from getting roasted.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 22, 2009)

Don't wanna jinx myself, and there's certainly significant left tail risk involved (like burning down the house), but so far this works better then I could've hoped.

Took me forever to get the pilot lit, and I was just about to quit before I finally got it, but I'm loving this right now.

Stats:

Firstly, turned my Sentinel from Fuzzy Logic (for compressed CO2) to Generator, and also raised the deadband from 25 to 200 (the max deadband). Setepoint is still at 1500.

So, let the temp get down to 72 and the CO2 get down to 400, then I fired the system up - 

Took 1.5 minutes - temp went up to 77, CO2 went to ~1800, and humidity went a few % points.

Stayed in to watch it in "maintain" mode, and it runs for about 30-45 seconds every five minutes, raising the temp about 1-1.5 degrees each time, and lowering the humidity a coupla points, while hitting ~1825 in PPMs.

Again, not trying to put the "mush" on myself, but so far this is working beautifully.

Need to figure out a failsafe in case the ducting should come down while I'm not there, which would lead the burner to stay on continuously, and need to brainstorm about some other things that could go wrong, but I'm feeling pretty good about it right now.

Thanks to all for their help.


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## rollmydoodie (Dec 22, 2009)

I like your setup. I'm going to be doing something similar so thanks for the idea to vent the generator into the room to help with heat. I dont know what +rep is but i'll try and find it for ya. Are you planning to do a grow journal?


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## Bob Smith (Dec 22, 2009)

rollmydoodie said:


> I like your setup. I'm going to be doing something similar so thanks for the idea to vent the generator into the room to help with heat. I dont know what +rep is but i'll try and find it for ya. Are you planning to do a grow journal?


Have one - click the link in my signature.


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## mindphuk (Dec 22, 2009)

Can you explain what your settings are on the CHHC-1 that empties a 20lb tank every week in a 4x4 tent? Mine last at least half of the flowering time of 4-5 weeks unless I set my flow meter too high or exhaust too frequently. I have a 5x5 tent.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 22, 2009)

mindphuk said:


> Can you explain what your settings are on the CHHC-1 that empties a 20lb tank every week in a 4x4 tent? Mine last at least half of the flowering time of 4-5 weeks unless I set my flow meter too high or exhaust too frequently. I have a 5x5 tent.


1500PPMs when lights on (12/12 schedule).

My exhaust virtually never runs (thirty seconds a day, as soon as the lights turn off).

It's about as sealed as a tent can be, IMHO.

Is your CO2 atmosphere controlled or are you using a timer?


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## regrets (Dec 22, 2009)

It looks like you have pulled this off as successfully as one could hope, congrats. I wouldn't worry too much about the ducting falling, seems like that is unlikely and worst case scenario is that your garage increases a few degrees and you waste a tank of propane, plus the fan would still be running most likely and at some point the co2 in the garage might get high enough to increase the ppms in the tent, stopping your system on it's own. Also if the venting falls it will be pulling in co2 from closer to the floor of the garage which is where it will be at its highest point. Well done again on this, I always wondered how well this wold work. Might be good reasons to run certain larger perpetual grows this way as well keeping the generator in the veg room while pumping the co2 into the adjacent flowering room, could help with evening out some of the heating issues during certain times of the year. I don't really know, but it's worth a thought, now that we know that this type of set up works. Thanks for sharing all of this info.


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## johndoe12345678 (Dec 22, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Hmmmmmm................based on the chart at the bottom of this link, it seems that the propane/CO2/BTU ratios are identical across generators, so the larger the better, methinks:
> 
> https://www.greenair.com/page/co2-generator-size-and-timing-chart.html
> 
> ...


 i have chhc with a sentinel natural gas burner with electric pilot which is a must so u dont have to dick with the pilot and as far as where the co2 goes, it goes straight down and the heat goes up and out side exhaust, u should of got a ten burner, there nice u can change how many burners u wanna use 2/5/7/0r 10.


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## mindphuk (Dec 22, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> 1500PPMs when lights on (12/12 schedule).
> 
> My exhaust virtually never runs (thirty seconds a day, as soon as the lights turn off).
> 
> ...


I run a CAP controller and keep mine at 1500. I thought your fuzzy logic was supposed to make the loss even less than my current unit which is why I was looking at the CHHC-1 as well. I have 18 14" plants in there running stinkbud's aero setup. I really like the digital control but I wonder how well it is helping preserve your co2.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

mindphuk said:


> I run a CAP controller and keep mine at 1500. I thought your fuzzy logic was supposed to make the loss even less than my current unit which is why I was looking at the CHHC-1 as well. I have 18 14" plants in there running stinkbud's aero setup. I really like the digital control but I wonder how well it is helping preserve your co2.


I really think it "just is what it is" - I don't blame the Sentinel for my CO2 use, it's got more to do with the plants.

About 7-12 days is correct for a tank and my size of grow - how sure are you that you're at 1500PPMs? Because I'd be willing to bet that you're quite short of that number, in all honesty.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

regrets said:


> It looks like you have pulled this off as successfully as one could hope, congrats. I wouldn't worry too much about the ducting falling, seems like that is unlikely and worst case scenario is that your garage increases a few degrees and you waste a tank of propane, plus the fan would still be running most likely and at some point the co2 in the garage might get high enough to increase the ppms in the tent, stopping your system on it's own. Also if the venting falls it will be pulling in co2 from closer to the floor of the garage which is where it will be at its highest point. Well done again on this, I always wondered how well this wold work. Might be good reasons to run certain larger perpetual grows this way as well keeping the generator in the veg room while pumping the co2 into the adjacent flowering room, could help with evening out some of the heating issues during certain times of the year. I don't really know, but it's worth a thought, now that we know that this type of set up works. Thanks for sharing all of this info.


My pleasure man, and you make good points regarding what would happen should the ducting come down - in addition, there's "supposedly" a safety feature built into the generator in that it'll shut off if it hits 255F, I believe - so worse comes to worse, hopefully that would do the trick.

Can't wait to use this setup on my future 8x8 flowering tent.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

Firstly, since the Sentinel's max deadband is 200 (meaning with a setpoint of 1500 and a deadband of 200, it will raise the CO2 to 1700 before it shuts off, then kick on again at 1500), I'd make the ducting longer, which would lead to more lag in the sensor, which would (effectively) increase the deadband - right now, the "system" shuts off at 1700, but it takes time for the airflow to stop, so the effective deadband is ~325 (the CO2 gets up to about 1825 before starting to drop).

In order for the generator to have to start and stop as little as possible, I'd like an effective deadband closer to ~500, if not a little more - longer ducting into my next tent will solve that problem.

Also, that heat exchanger will be a necessity come summertime - the air getting pumped in is pretty warm (makes the ducting very warm to the touch), so that little heat exchanger would be required for the summertime - seems like a great little invention/innovation to remove the heat using virtually no power (like 30 watts for a pump, that's it).

Finally, I made a little video documenting how it works - anyone know how to post youtube videos and embed them in my post?

Until I figure that out, here's a link........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRXXJyuok90


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## laserbrn (Dec 23, 2009)

Good job. I doubted the effectiveness of this, but the ability to suspend it from the roof and innovatino there really made it work out. A+ +rep coming your way for sure.

Posting a video:


Couldn't be easier...

[youtube]kRXXJyuok90[/youtube]

for the code just hit reply and look at it...


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Good job. I doubted the effectiveness of this, but the ability to suspend it from the roof and innovatino there really made it work out. A+ +rep coming your way for sure.
> 
> Posting a video:
> 
> ...


Thank you kindly, my good sir 

Even though I'm not that old, posting vids and things of that nature are still above my pay grade


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## jnuggs (Dec 23, 2009)

dude I am very sorry. and I don't really mean to jump the gun(although I do..obviously..) but I just skipped from page 1 to the last page. If I could neg rep you, I probably would. I think that it is totally, COMPLETELY FUCKED UP.. that just because you have a CO2 generator and you're not worried about CO2 loss..you're willing to use your exhaust fans during your CO2 on-cycle. That is so fucked up to just dump your extra CO2 into our world. There are others here who use the air and everything else nature has provided. And that does NOT mean humans alone. 

Way to not give a shit about mother nature while growing green.
Then again you're not going green, only growing.
Whatever. 
p.s. I am truly not out to make enemies with you. I just immaturely ranted about my feelings for it. I hope you consider going about this a different way.

Anyhow, if there are any hard feelings, I apologize for not being so nice. Maybe we could all figure out something for you? to do it differently? and I do give you props for asking questions about what you should do..and I understand that nobody was really giving replies before you purchased your unit!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

jnuggs said:


> dude I am very sorry. and I don't really mean to jump the gun(although I do..obviously..) but I just skipped from page 1 to the last page. If I could neg rep you, I probably would. I think that it is totally, COMPLETELY FUCKED UP.. that just because you have a CO2 generator and you're not worried about CO2 loss..you're willing to use your exhaust fans during your CO2 on-cycle. That is so fucked up to just dump your extra CO2 into our world. There are others here who use the air and everything else nature has provided. And that does NOT mean humans alone.
> 
> Way to not give a shit about mother nature while growing green.
> Then again you're not going green, only growing.
> ...


Ummmmmm.................my exhaust fans come on for about thirty seconds every 24 hours, and that's when the light goes out - they don't run at all when the light is on (and the CO2 is being generated).

I'd be lying if I said that it doesn't strike me as somewhat asinine to attack someone before reading the thread or knowing what one is talking about, but hey, to each their own.

Please read the thread in its entirety before attacking me anymore, if you wouldn't mind.

Thanks in advance.


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## jnuggs (Dec 23, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Generator's getting delivered tomorrow, so I need to run it for a bit and see if my vision fits its reality, but my plan right now is this:
> 
> Gonna build a plywood box around the generator with 6" flange up top and many 1.5" holes drilled around the bottom for intake.
> 
> ...


sorry I took that highlighted part as in you were going to run your exhaust while the generator was running, if needed, to help with temps. Maybe I misunderstood. And I did go back through and read the thread in it's entirety. I am with this laser guy a bit... there is no way your tent is 100% sealed..so wouldn't keeping the whole garage at 1500 ppm do the trick?

And to whoever said "not everyone can have plants and lights all over the house.." and you said "hit the head of the nail" or whatever.. How in the hell do you hide your current 4x4 tent, plus a CO2 generator..and then you're expanding to an 8x4..or 8x8, I saw you posted both sizes. 

The only reason I bashed is because it sounded to me like you were willingly and knowingly going to exhaust CO2 enriched air, without a care.

Once again, I'm not trying to attack at all. And I do apologize for skipping 5 pages. I'm also glad that you didn't build the whole wooden box!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

jnuggs said:


> sorry I took that highlighted part as in you were going to run your exhaust while the generator was running, if needed, to help with temps. Maybe I misunderstood. And I did go back through and read the thread in it's entirety. I am with this laser guy a bit... there is no way your tent is 100% sealed..so wouldn't keeping the whole garage at 1500 ppm do the trick?
> 
> And to whoever said "not everyone can have plants and lights all over the house.." and you said "hit the head of the nail" or whatever.. How in the hell do you hide your current 4x4 tent, plus a CO2 generator..and then you're expanding to an 8x4..or 8x8, I saw you posted both sizes.
> 
> ...


Dude, I'm buzzed from Jack Daniels, it's Christmas Eve Eve, and I really don't wanna argue with you.

Set your posts per page at 40 (as opposed to the ten it's on), and read the thread before attacking me anymore**.

**Spoiler alert - I'm not wasting any CO2, and have not set my exhaust fans to run, because the temps are not that much of an issue in the wintertime.

Please, please just read the thread in its entirety, or just don't worry about it and let us all be.

Merry Christmas.


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## jnuggs (Dec 23, 2009)

lol man I wasn't trying to argue with you. I didn't realize you could see more than 10 posts per page, so thanks for the info. And that's no spoiler alert anyhow. Was only trying to see what dimensions you work with, etc. My bad for gettin ya all pissy.

**Happy alert for you - unsubscribed.


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## dakin3d (Dec 29, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Dude, I'm buzzed from Jack Daniels, it's Christmas Eve Eve, and I really don't wanna argue with you.
> 
> Set your posts per page at 40 (as opposed to the ten it's on), and read the thread before attacking me anymore**.
> 
> ...


Damn Bob, gotta give you props for this setup... When I initially started reading, I have to admit, I was another doubter, but you really came through w/ some innovative solutions.

I just wanted to ask you how much propane are you actually using? I wouldn't want to fill it too often, so I'm thinking natural gas and just tap into my house line. THanks for the ebay link, as well, I've been looking for a reasonably priced unit.

Also wanted to ask, where did you purchase your Sentinel unit from? Did you get a good price on that, as well. I'm currently debating between CAP, Sentinel, and Harvest Master if you have any input, I would appreciate it.

Last, just wanted to ask if the inline that your using is a 'Valueline' brand, and at what rating? 400 cfm? I'm looking to invest into a few of these and don't really want to spend the $$$ on 'Vortex' as they are pricey as hell.

Happy Holidays, dak


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## Bob Smith (Jan 2, 2010)

dakin3d said:


> Damn Bob, gotta give you props for this setup... When I initially started reading, I have to admit, I was another doubter, but you really came through w/ some innovative solutions.
> 
> I just wanted to ask you how much propane are you actually using? I wouldn't want to fill it too often, so I'm thinking natural gas and just tap into my house line. THanks for the ebay link, as well, I've been looking for a reasonably priced unit.
> 
> ...


Already went through a 20# tank in about nine days - obviously nowhere near what I was shooting for, so need to go back to the drawing board with ideas - the easiest and simplest idea (in theory) would be tapping into my house natural gas line, which is just on the other side of the wall away from my generator (back of the stove is directly on the other side).

I got my Sentinel from Ebay, and it was $510 - best investment I've made for my grow yet, IMHO - nice to set it and forget it. Can't speak for the CAP or HM, but my Sentinel does (basically) everything I need, so I can tell you that I highly recommend it.

Yes, the 4" which is hooked up to the generator is a Valueline, but it's 170CFM - I have five of them (3 6" and 2 4"), and they all work great - can't compare to Vortex or anything else because I've never used them, but I've got no complaints about Valueline.

Check out businesslights.com for good prices on them.

Happy holidays to you as well


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## Trubliever82 (Jan 3, 2010)

This has to be the craziest shit ive ever took 30 min to read! ALL this for co2? I have a 2 4x4x8 tents hooked up to a co2 tank with a sentinal regulator and set the flow meter at .5 and it lasts awhile. Got it hooked up to a controller the monitors and kicks on when it drops below 1200ppm and off at 1500. Room seeled with 1000w w/ducting runing from outside through hood then back outside. Stays around 79 degrees. As far as hiding the tank for what reason? I got a keg at my house i use it for. Thats what i tell people anyways. Just seems crazy to me all that work and money and ur still not properly set up. Ur tank lasted 9 days? just hope u dont burn ur garage down or breathe in to much fumes


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## Bob Smith (Jan 5, 2010)

Trubliever82 said:


> This has to be the craziest shit ive ever took 30 min to read!


I aim to please.


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## regrets (Jan 6, 2010)

9 days, that ain't good man. You should be able to get a month easy for that sized room I would guess 2-3. So you are obviously wasting the majority of your energy in this system somehow. It could be possible that the weight of the co2 is more of an issue than I would have thought, you should try to reposition your tubing to suck the co2 out of the bottom somehow. It is a much wider opening and it is further from the burners, so you should be able to secure the tubing directly without leaving a gap. If you can turn down the power of your fan a bit (maybe with a dimmer) it may be in your best interest. Also I think that the overkill of burners is most definitely a problem with the current venting situation, it is just running too much all at once, creating more room for waste. I would think that the extra burners wouldn't be such a problem if the venting is through the bottom, as the co2 will naturally drop anyhow, but it may still be wasteful and need to be changed back to 1 or 2 burners. Good luck again though I hope you can fix this issue.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 6, 2010)

regrets said:


> 9 days, that ain't good man. You should be able to get a month easy for that sized room I would guess 2-3. So you are obviously wasting the majority of your energy in this system somehow. It could be possible that the weight of the co2 is more of an issue than I would have thought, you should try to reposition your tubing to suck the co2 out of the bottom somehow. It is a much wider opening and it is further from the burners, so you should be able to secure the tubing directly without leaving a gap. If you can turn down the power of your fan a bit (maybe with a dimmer) it may be in your best interest. Also I think that the overkill of burners is most definitely a problem with the current venting situation, it is just running too much all at once, creating more room for waste. I would think that the extra burners wouldn't be such a problem if the venting is through the bottom, as the co2 will naturally drop anyhow, but it may still be wasteful and need to be changed back to 1 or 2 burners. Good luck again though I hope you can fix this issue.


Yeah, definitely wasting energy like a mofugger from the generator to the fan; that being said, the project's on hold for a bit until I figure out exactly what direction I'm taking with my grow show (and more generally, my life). 

If I stay with just a 4x4 tent then I question whether it's even worth messing with it right now - the tanks are doing me fine until I figure out what direction I'm taking in terms of expansion.

If I do expand to an 8x8 tent with 4 600s covering 4 3x3 trays, then it'll make sense to start futzing around with it again, in which case I'll probably just run a splitter off of the natural gas line on the other side of the wall, and not have to worry as much about waste.

Also, my burner produces 15cu ft/hr, so theoretically, even running almost constantly during the twelve hours of lights on, it should've lasted me two weeks.

Obviously something is amiss somewhere, and I'll probably figure out what it is, but it's down there on my priority list as of now.






[Return to previous page]​


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## Isit420yetog (Jun 17, 2021)

Well Bob, I’m just now reading this because I’ve been looking for a solution to the same problem. Did you ever figure out a better way that was more efficient?


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## ricman (Jun 17, 2021)

Isit420yetog said:


> Well Bob, I’m just now reading this because I’ve been looking for a solution to the same problem. Did you ever figure out a better way that was more efficient?


sorry to bust your bubble.....but this thread is 11 years old and Bob hasn't been on here in 6 years.


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## Keif Richards (Jun 17, 2021)

ricman said:


> sorry to bust your bubble.....but this thread is 11 years old and Bob hasn't been on here in 6 years.




Rumor is, he died of CO2 poisoning.


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