# Mini-Split Charging help please



## cbdprospector (May 8, 2015)

I bought and installed a pioneer mini-split system. I got everything up and charged, the thing cooled the tent down in just a few minutes. It was awesome, until it stopped cooling as good. I found and fixed a leak on one of the fittings but now I need to recharge the system.

I know I need to vacuum down the system, but here's my question. When I first installed it, the service ports on the hi and low side were closed off when I pulled down the lineset. I then opened up the service ports to release the precharged freon into the system. Now that I have to recover and add new freon into the system, do I shut off the service ports or leave them open during vacuum?

Thank you for any help!


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

You would leave the ports open. You probably dont have any freon to recover. Vacuum in the system will allow moisture to boil at low temps. Most professionals will vacuum the system then purge the lines with Nitrogen gas...
This makes me nervous because I had my eye on Pioneer mini splits... I heard of others that have had problems with the quick connect fittings, are they really that bad? 
Before you released the freon in the system you were supposed to vacuum the lines and perform a leak test. If it can hold a vacuum, it can hold pressure! Most professionals will put a vacuum on the system and come back 24hrs later and see if it holds. Then, you release the freon... I think you void the warranty if you dont have a HVAC guy with a license#. 
I am not trying to make you feel bad or anything, I was probably going to set up my own system. However, I have friends that have a valid Hvac license#. For the warranty, there usually has to be an invoice # proving that you hired a company...


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

I think that you can rent a vacuum pump. It is pretty important to get the moisture out of the system! Your compressor will not last long with moisture...
As far as rentals go, I think that you can get everything but freon. Maybe??? You can find used ones on craigslist for under $200. You could just resale it when you are done!


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

I am going to be asking you plenty of questions. I started a Pioneer thread but it is dead. Not one reply. You are the only person that I have been able to talk to that owns a system...

Where the lines really cheap and shitty??? Faulty/missing pieces for the line set is the only negative review that I have seen about the system.
Experts will cut the flared fitting and braze the copper lines together.
You need to wake up and talk to me lol. The only reason that I have not bought this system is because they are on back-order until May18th.! I really want to know if it was faulty equipment or do you think that you messed up during install? I have seen one person talk about a missing copper gasket for the quick fitting. It cost him .50cents from Grainger.


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## cbdprospector (May 9, 2015)

MustangStudFarm said:


> You would leave the ports open. You probably dont have any freon to recover. Vacuum in the system will allow moisture to boil at low temps. Most professionals will vacuum the system then purge the lines with Nitrogen gas...
> This makes me nervous because I had my eye on Pioneer mini splits... I heard of others that have had problems with the quick connect fittings, are they really that bad?
> Before you released the freon in the system you were supposed to vacuum the lines and perform a leak test. If it can hold a vacuum, it can hold pressure! Most professionals will put a vacuum on the system and come back 24hrs later and see if it holds. Then, you release the freon... I think you void the warranty if you dont have a HVAC guy with a license#.
> I am not trying to make you feel bad or anything, I was probably going to set up my own system. However, I have friends that have a valid Hvac license#. For the warranty, there usually has to be an invoice # proving that you hired a company...


This is a stealth grow in a state that is still in the dark ages so getting an HVAC guy out to go into my tent is out of the question. I know I'm taking a chance on the warranty but it is what it is..... 

This is a brand new pioneer 12000 BTU 13 seer (bought off Amazon for $671) I don't see any quick connects - are you talking about the service ports like on a car? 

On installation, I ran a 33ft lineset, I don't have a torque wrench but I do have a set of gauges and a 5 cfm single stage pump. Initially, I evacuated the system and held a vacuum, I found there was a leak and tightened the fittings. Ran another vacuum and held it for a few hours and didn't see a drop. So I filled the lineset with 17 feet of refrigerant opened the valves to release the precharged freon and it blew ice cold. I did a soap test but I guess I missed a leak. After it started losing cool, I shut it down and brought in my old portable and am using it until I get this resolved. I bought I leak detector, got it in yesterday - found the fitting that was leaking the tightened it until there was no more leak. 

So at this point, I would
- open up the valves on the high and low side and vacuum out the system - for a long while. Hold it for a long while and look for any drop. If all is good then:
- shut off the low side and vac on the manifold gauge,
- purge air from the refrigerant line
- open manifold refrigerant line
- open low side manifold line (purge?)
- Weigh in 9.51 lbs of refrigerant (2.25 system 7.26 lineset)

Would I start the system to cool after I start the refrigerant?

Thank you!


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## cbdprospector (May 9, 2015)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I am going to be asking you plenty of questions. I started a Pioneer thread but it is dead. Not one reply. You are the only person that I have been able to talk to that owns a system...
> 
> Where the lines really cheap and shitty??? Faulty/missing pieces for the line set is the only negative review that I have seen about the system.
> Experts will cut the flared fitting and braze the copper lines together.
> You need to wake up and talk to me lol. The only reason that I have not bought this system is because they are on back-order until May18th.! I really want to know if it was faulty equipment or do you think that you messed up during install? I have seen one person talk about a missing copper gasket for the quick fitting. It cost him .50cents from Grainger.


Hehehehh.... I'm awake! I really had no problems with the system, all the parts were there. I didn't even use the 16ft set that came with it, but it had all the parts. I know that my issue here is because I didn't tighten down the fitting enough. Is that what you are calling the quick connects? These are flare fittings, then again I might not know the terminology.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

Professionals will vacuum the line and give it 24hrs for a leak test. If it is holding a vacuum for 24, you should be good...
They discontinued the 13 seer unit in 2015 due to new restrictions. I think that every system has to be 14+ seer now...

I noticed that they started to give away glue for connections with a new purchase.
http://www.amazon.com/Connection-Ductless-Conditioners-Prevents-installation/dp/B00QMS86WI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1431189672&sr=8-6&keywords=pioneer+split+air+conditioner


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

There should be a maximum number of feet that your copper lineset could be. If you exceed the maximum number, you just need to add more 410. I will look and see if I can find the max ft for the lines


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

It is hard to find the spec for this unit. I came across others that say ,for example, their unit has enough charge for 25' lineset.


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## chuck estevez (May 9, 2015)

if it didn't all leak out, you don't need to pull a vacuum. If it went flat, then you can just pull the vacuum with the ports open. recharging is going to be another story.
you are probably running a 410a system. you need a license to buy that. then you have 2 ways of charging, you can weight out the charge and then check subcooling. or you can just wing it nd try and get it close by just checking the subcooling.


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## anzohaze (May 9, 2015)

Open valves and vacuum the shot out of it for an hour or more and then close.of manifold gauges. Make sure it holds vacuum if it holds for 20 minutes your good. recharge it through low side Port. Cut mini split on and set to coldest temp to keep it running and charge to proper pressures. II believe the pressure are high 510 low 70 could be wrong read your sticker and charge it to proper pressures and therest ya go.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

In an automotive system. "Winging it" is when the compressor stays cycling. The proper way is to weigh it though.

I am glad someone else chim'ed in!


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

This is more like the recovery system that I have been trained on. It has the recovery tank and scale inside the stand. All-in-one system!

http://www.amazon.com/Robinair-34288-CoolTech-Recycling-Recharging/dp/B0015DOPDE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1431192620&sr=8-2&keywords=robinair+134+recovery


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## chuck estevez (May 9, 2015)

MustangStudFarm said:


> In an automotive system. "Winging it" is when the compressor stays cycling. The proper way is to weigh it though.
> 
> I am glad someone else chim'ed in!


134a is easy and you can buy it at o'reilly. charging it until compressor stops cycling works great. or they have a meter on the charge kit that tells you when it's good.
never heard of charging to a pressure of 510 and 70, that is a huge head pressure, to do it properly, length and size of pipe and subcooling all need to be considered for 410a


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

I was just explaining that I am no expert! Yeah, R134a is easy to get.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

TGA Subcool used to be an A/C guy. That is how he got his name. I think that only people who know a little a/c understand it.


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## cbdprospector (May 9, 2015)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Professionals will vacuum the line and give it 24hrs for a leak test. If it is holding a vacuum for 24, you should be good...
> They discontinued the 13 seer unit in 2015 due to new restrictions. I think that every system has to be 14+ seer now...
> 
> I noticed that they started to give away glue for connections with a new purchase.
> http://www.amazon.com/Connection-Ductless-Conditioners-Prevents-installation/dp/B00QMS86WI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1431189672&sr=8-6&keywords=pioneer split air conditioner


That's true, I got them with the unit and with the extra lineset I ordered.



MustangStudFarm said:


> There should be a maximum number of feet that your copper lineset could be. If you exceed the maximum number, you just need to add more 410. I will look and see if I can find the max ft for the lines


It's 50ft - I'm running 33



MustangStudFarm said:


> It is hard to find the spec for this unit. I came across others that say ,for example, their unit has enough charge for 25' lineset.


There's enough for a 16ft lineset - which they ship with the unit. Here are the specs:
 

Thank you for all your replies!


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## cbdprospector (May 9, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> Open valves and vacuum the shot out of it for an hour or more and then close.of manifold gauges. Make sure it holds vacuum if it holds for 20 minutes your good. recharge it through low side Port. Cut mini split on and set to coldest temp to keep it running and charge to proper pressures. II believe the pressure are high 510 low 70 could be wrong read your sticker and charge it to proper pressures and therest ya go.


Thanks for the reply! I hear that mini splits are critical charge system, so it has to be weighed in. I calculate it at 9.51 lbs - also, I don't have a high side measurement that I can take, that I know of.


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## cbdprospector (May 9, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> 134a is easy and you can buy it at o'reilly. charging it until compressor stops cycling works great. or they have a meter on the charge kit that tells you when it's good.
> never heard of charging to a pressure of 510 and 70, that is a huge head pressure, to do it properly, length and size of pipe and subcooling all need to be considered for 410a


I assume it leaked out because it's not blowing cold but when I used the leak detector - it detected the presence of 410a. If there is any in there, it shouldn't be much. I already have an 11.5 lb can of 410a sitting here - bought it off the net.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

cbdprospector said:


> Thanks for the reply! I hear that mini splits are critical charge system, so it has to be weighed in. I calculate it at 9.51 lbs - also, I don't have a high side measurement that I can take, that I know of.


I heard that they only have one service port! That is strange, especially since they expect you to hire a pro. Again, I may be out of my area of expertise.

Gotta love Ebay!!! I have a credit line with them lol.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

cbdprospector said:


> I assume it leaked out because it's not blowing cold but when I used the leak detector - it detected the presence of 410a. If there is any in there, it shouldn't be much. I already have an 11.5 lb can of 410a sitting here - bought it off the net.


Find a large scale and weigh it. Take total weight of canister and subtract your charge weight... Nothing complicated


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## cbdprospector (May 9, 2015)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Find a large scale and weigh it. Take total weight of canister and subtract your charge weight... Nothing complicated


Yeah, that's my plan. I have it on the vacuum now, I can't wait to have it back. I'm in a hot and humid state and have been fighting the heat - this thing just iced the area without a sweat.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

cbdprospector said:


> That's true, I got them with the unit and with the extra lineset I ordered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is what I got from your chart. The units have enough charge for a 16ft lineset. The maximum distance that the lineset can be is 50ft. You are @33ft. Subtract 33ft-16ft=17ft. You will need to add .22oz per ft. 17ft x .22oz=3.74oz extra that you will add... What size btu do you have? I will be able to give you a final weight, MAYBE. lol.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

If you have a 12000btu. It would come with a 2.25lb charge= 2lbs4oz. 2lbs 4oz + 3.74oz= 2lbs 7.74oz. I am sure that you could talk to tech support. You dont have to tell them that you installed it yet.
I am sure that you could round it to 2 1/2lbs


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

This is for a 12000btu unit!!! If it is different, your weight will be different!!!


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## cbdprospector (May 9, 2015)

It's the 12000 btu. You are right, it comes with 2.25 lbs of precharge, I have 33ft of lineset (33 x .22 = 7.26 lbs) 7.26 + 2.25 = 9.51 lbs to go in.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

The 2.25lbs cover the 16ft lineset. You will have 17ft unaccounted for. It is .22oz per foot, ounces not pounds. 16oz per pound right.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

Have you taken any algebra classes since high school? Not being rude, but I did a lot conversions in chemistry class. This is much like a chemistry exam question.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

I dont think that your system will hold close to 9lbs!!! Call tech support. I want to see you happy with your Pioneer because I possibly want to order one also.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

Think logically... You are adding 17ft to your system. It comes with 2.25lbs to cover your compressor and 16ft line. Your 3x the original charge!


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## cbdprospector (May 9, 2015)

Yeah - I was totally adding this wrong. Thank you for being persistent - I would have trashed this thing at 9 lbs.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 9, 2015)

cbdprospector said:


> Yeah - I was totally adding this wrong. Thank you for being persistent - I would have trashed this thing at 9 lbs.


I just want to see you happy with your unit... Nobody else is talking to me about Pioneer brand. I am torn between Pioneer and Senville. They are both on back-order right now!!!

You possibly could have ruined your compressor! Its cool man, at least your trying to figure it out. Many people would have trashed their system and come on here saying that Pioneer is B.S.


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## Merkin Donor (May 10, 2015)

If your first vac was actually good you don't need to evac and re-pull. A manifold is useless on mini splits, all you need if you're very careful is a hose with a shut off valve and the right adapter to connect for mini's (5/16) and a good thermometer. Your system may have a mode to enter into to add refrigerant so check the stickers on the service cover of the condenser (outside unit). Set mode or turn system on high cool. Connect everything, bottle upside down and purge air out of hose at service port connection . Then open the valve on the hose for 3-4 seconds then close it and check temp at the head. Keep doing this until you output temp is 55-58 degrees F. Just remember to only add a tiny bit then check, easier to do with two people. Make sure the bottle is closed before disconnecting, keep system on when removing the hose and do it quickly so you don't lose refrigerant.


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## Merkin Donor (May 10, 2015)

Forgot to add a link to hose and adapter. The used one is just for example.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Just-Better-CLV-6Y-1-4x6-Whip-End-Only-With-Ball-Valve-High-Pressure-Hose-Yellow-/271565130218?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f3a8b09ea

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-Male-SAE-x-5-16-Female-SAE-Adapter-for-R410a-Mini-Split-HVAC-System-/361105914659?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541396fb23


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## cbdprospector (May 11, 2015)

Merkin Donor said:


> If your first vac was actually good you don't need to evac and re-pull. A manifold is useless on mini splits, all you need if you're very careful is a hose with a shut off valve and the right adapter to connect for mini's (5/16) and a good thermometer. Your system may have a mode to enter into to add refrigerant so check the stickers on the service cover of the condenser (outside unit). Set mode or turn system on high cool. Connect everything, bottle upside down and purge air out of hose at service port connection . Then open the valve on the hose for 3-4 seconds then close it and check temp at the head. Keep doing this until you output temp is 55-58 degrees F. Just remember to only add a tiny bit then check, easier to do with two people. Make sure the bottle is closed before disconnecting, keep system on when removing the hose and do it quickly so you don't lose refrigerant.


So I could do this on a complete refill? I assume I would have to still weigh it and monitor the temperature as I get close to the weight. I didn't see a mode to put it in, so I'll do high cool - I can remotely monitor the temperature as I add the freon. 

Thank you for your help!


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## Merkin Donor (May 11, 2015)

"on a complete refill" if the system has only leaked down to the point that it hasn't stopped cooling then yes this method will work. If it has lost 100% of the charge and air/moisture has gotten into it then you will have to pull a vacuum and then add the initial factory charge. You will need a scale that accurately displays ounces, this is what I use. http://www.fieldpiece.com/products/detail/srs2c-wireless-refrigerant-scale/refrigerant-scales/ 
Not sure what "remote" method you are going to use but it needs to be accurate. I wish I could walk you through it over the phone because this stuff can go south fast and you can easily give yourself frostbite and a bunch of other bad things but given our industry you know the rest. 
Not sure where you are but most places won't sell R410a to anyone without an EPA cert, if you have someone getting it for you maybe they know a local person who would help you fix your "grandma's" system.


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## cbdprospector (May 11, 2015)

My grow area is rigged with environmental control that I monitor from remote, I have a temperature sensor I could stick on the output to monitor the temp. Seems like a good way to double check the refill. I have it on a vacuum, just need a scale - a cheap one since I will only be using it once. As for the refrigerant, I already have some 410a - got it right off the internet with no problem. The frostbite risk would be from purging the lines? I have some leather gloves I can use.


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## Merkin Donor (May 11, 2015)

I've seen people panic and refrigerant is going everywhere. Do you have a digital micron gauge? On a small system like that you should be able to pull that down to under 100 microns easily. If it holds below 300-500 for an hour I'd be happy with it. Once it's stable just dump your initial charge under vacuum and slowly work your way up by temp. There is no subcool, superheat or pressures to hit on mini's. Error on the low side when putting in the initial charge so you don't over charge it because of scale accuracy. Make sure the system is running when you disconnect the hose and you will be on the suction side of things so you won't get a high pressure blast of 410.


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## cbdprospector (May 11, 2015)

Merkin Donor said:


> I've seen people panic and refrigerant is going everywhere. Do you have a digital micron gauge? On a small system like that you should be able to pull that down to under 100 microns easily. If it holds below 300-500 for an hour I'd be happy with it. Once it's stable just dump your initial charge under vacuum and slowly work your way up by temp. There is no subcool, superheat or pressures to hit on mini's. Error on the low side when putting in the initial charge so you don't over charge it because of scale accuracy. Make sure the system is running when you disconnect the hose and you will be on the suction side of things so you won't get a high pressure blast of 410.


 Thanks again for your continued advice - I really appreciate it. I don't have a digital micron gauge but will look for one, and I need a scale ....


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## Merkin Donor (May 11, 2015)

About as cheap as they get new. Sucks because it probably will be a one time use for you.
http://www.amazon.com/Fieldpice-Digital-Vacuum-Gauge-Alarm/dp/B00DMFHF0I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1431378690&sr=8-2&keywords=micron+gauge
I need to figure out how to tap into the local scene cause I'm sure lots of folks could use help with this.


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## anzohaze (May 11, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> 134a is easy and you can buy it at o'reilly. charging it until compressor stops cycling works great. or they have a meter on the charge kit that tells you when it's good.
> never heard of charging to a pressure of 510 and 70, that is a huge head pressure, to do it properly, length and size of pipe and subcooling all need to be considered for 410a


My ideal air mini split calls for that pressure from what I remember I'll post A Pic I could be and probably wrong but I as well said that was a damn high head pressure


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## chuck estevez (May 11, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> My ideal air mini split calls for that pressure from what I remember I'll post A Pic I could be and probably wrong but I as well said that was a damn high head pressure


the first 410a systems ran very high head pressures, you could have an older version


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## anzohaze (May 11, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> the first 410a systems ran very high head pressures, you could have an older version


Yeah I have had it for like 8 years I think or around there


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## cbdprospector (May 12, 2015)

Merkin Donor said:


> About as cheap as they get new. Sucks because it probably will be a one time use for you.
> http://www.amazon.com/Fieldpice-Digital-Vacuum-Gauge-Alarm/dp/B00DMFHF0I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1431378690&sr=8-2&keywords=micron gauge
> I need to figure out how to tap into the local scene cause I'm sure lots of folks could use help with this.


Well, I'm certain I have a leak. I held the vacuum overnight on the manifold and got a small drop. This is probably because I don't have a $150 torque wrench....dammit. So I guess there is a possibility that I either under or over tightened the fitting. I'm thinking I could get some nitrogen and pressure test to locate the leak....(?) As for a scale, is something like a digital fish scale accurate enough to fill with?


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## Merkin Donor (May 12, 2015)

cbdprospector said:


> Well, I'm certain I have a leak. I held the vacuum overnight on the manifold and got a small drop. This is probably because I don't have a $150 torque wrench....dammit. So I guess there is a possibility that I either under or over tightened the fitting. I'm thinking I could get some nitrogen and pressure test to locate the leak....(?) As for a scale, is something like a digital fish scale accurate enough to fill with?


If your manifold has a micron gauge and you didn't go up over 1000 microns overnight you are fine. But I'm not sure what you're using because there is no "drop" on vacuum unless you are pulling one, only rise. Any scale that accurately displays lb's and oz's would work as long as you can use it with the bottle upside down. Yes nitrogen will work, run it up to 300-400 psi and check with a bubble solution. You've got four flare fittings that you may want to disassemble and check all the lips for cracks or deformities. if you have an HVAC supply house around go pick up some of this stuff and apply yo all the matting surfaces and threads (just a drop or two).
http://www.centurytool.net/RT201B_Refrigeration_Technologies_NYLOG_BLUE_p/rt201b.htm
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1279551-REVIEW-Nylog-Gasket-and-Thread-Sealant


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## cbdprospector (May 12, 2015)

Merkin Donor said:


> If your manifold has a micron gauge and you didn't go up over 1000 microns overnight you are fine. But I'm not sure what you're using because there is no "drop" on vacuum unless you are pulling one, only rise. Any scale that accurately displays lb's and oz's would work as long as you can use it with the bottle upside down. Yes nitrogen will work, run it up to 300-400 psi and check with a bubble solution. You've got four flare fittings that you may want to disassemble and check all the lips for cracks or deformities. if you have an HVAC supply house around go pick up some of this stuff and apply yo all the matting surfaces and threads (just a drop or two).
> http://www.centurytool.net/RT201B_Refrigeration_Technologies_NYLOG_BLUE_p/rt201b.htm
> http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1279551-REVIEW-Nylog-Gasket-and-Thread-Sealant


It doesn't have a micron gauge, just a compound gauge. What I meant by "drop" was, I shut off the vacuum and line and left the gauge on overnight. Here was the readings:


Obviously not as accurate as a micron gauge but it seems to show a slight drop. I have a digital hanging scale that shows lbs and oz, I can strap and hang the bottle with it for sure. I'll pick up some of that flare sealant you suggested, I used up the one that came with the system.


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## Merkin Donor (May 12, 2015)

cbdprospector said:


> It doesn't have a micron gauge, just a compound gauge. What I meant by "drop" was, I shut off the vacuum and line and left the gauge on overnight. Here was the readings:
> View attachment 3416846
> 
> Obviously not as accurate as a micron gauge but it seems to show a slight drop. I have a digital hanging scale that shows lbs and oz, I can strap and hang the bottle with it for sure. I'll pick up some of that flare sealant you suggested, I used up the one that came with the system.


That's a tough one, a vacuum will settle out after a bit and the numbers always go up. At this point it's kind of your call because you can chase your tail forever because of not having all the equipment. At this point I would base how you proceed on your operational needs. Do you have time to spend or are your plants in jeopardy. The environmentalist part of me says "no leaks, period" the realist says charge her up, monitor your output temps and if they start climbing add 410 to bring them back in line and maybe a shot of Nu Calgon Easy Seal (there is risk with this so do your due diligence). One thing I never asked in the beginning, did you find oil all over any of the fittings? Refrigerant oil should lead you to the source of the leak.


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## cbdprospector (May 12, 2015)

Merkin Donor said:


> That's a tough one, a vacuum will settle out after a bit and the numbers always go up. At this point it's kind of your call because you can chase your tail forever because of not having all the equipment. At this point I would base how you proceed on your operational needs. Do you have time to spend or are your plants in jeopardy. The environmentalist part of me says "no leaks, period" the realist says charge her up, monitor your output temps and if they start climbing add 410 to bring them back in line and maybe a shot of Nu Calgon Easy Seal (there is risk with this so do your due diligence). One thing I never asked in the beginning, did you find oil all over any of the fittings? Refrigerant oil should lead you to the source of the leak.


Plants are not in any jeopardy, I dragged my portable in there so they are staying cool for however long I need. I only saw some refrigerant oil on the initial leak that I found with a leak detector I bought. I also didn't find any leaks with that detector after I fixed it so I'm thinking I should be good. At this point I'm more concerned with the fill and making sure there is no air in the line when I refill. I have a hose and an adapter that I can take from my manifold and run it straight from the bottle to the low service port - it just doesn't have the ball valve on it.. Also sounds like removing the line fast is critical. What happens if air does get in there? Do you have to start over?

Thank you again for all the info!


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## Merkin Donor (May 12, 2015)

Can you post a pic of the manifold/vacuum setup you are using? Can you duplicate this setup with your equipment?




If so you've pulled the vacuum, shut off low side valve and just attach tank and duplicate their setup but before you open the low side crack the yellow line open at the manifold allowing a little 410 to escape to purge the air (non-condensable) out.


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## Merkin Donor (May 12, 2015)

Also I would add most of the initial charge to the system before turning it on. Add it in slowly too, you just have to crack the valve open a little bit.


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## cbdprospector (May 12, 2015)

I've actually got a 4 hose manifold, so it should be easier


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## cbdprospector (May 12, 2015)

So on this setup, it's the same idea except I don't have to unhook anything. I'll still shut off the low side to hold in the vacuum - purge the air from the line - open the low side valve and bring in most of it (slowly) with the unit off. Once I'm close, I turn on the until and measure the temp until I hit 54-55. .


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## Merkin Donor (May 12, 2015)

Yes, then just crack the valve a little and you will see the refrigerant in the sight glass. just add it slow and check temps. Once you are where you want to be close the tank valve and open the low side (with system running) this will pull the last tiny bit of 410 out of your manifold. run it like that for a few minutes then close the low side, disconnect your lines from the system. there might be some left in there so be careful.


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## cbdprospector (May 12, 2015)

Merkin Donor said:


> Yes, then just crack the valve a little and you will see the refrigerant in the sight glass. just add it slow and check temps. Once you are where you want to be close the tank valve and open the low side (with system running) this will pull the last tiny bit of 410 out of your manifold. run it like that for a few minutes then close the low side, disconnect your lines from the system. there might be some left in there so be careful.


I can't thank you enough for the valuable information. I really really appreciate it. I tried the digital fish scale - it didn't work - it kept wanting to hold on the weight and stop. So I ordered a refrigerant digital scale, it will be here thursday. In the meanwhile, I just vacuumed and closed off the low port to keep it sealed until I'm ready.

I'll let you know how it goes!


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## Merkin Donor (May 12, 2015)

No problem! Bummer, try using and returning if you can.  Otherwise keep it around, you might be able to recoup some cost by helping other growers with their systems.


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## cbdprospector (May 17, 2015)

Thought I would give you an update. I did the recharge last Friday, I followed the procedures and it went perfect. The scale was the key, getting the weight exact was a great feeling. The output is blowing 49 degrees at it's lowest setting though, didn't know if that's a blessing or indication I something it wrong - but it's working great. I took my halogen detector and turned it up to high and found 2 real small leaks, I had to put the sensor tip right up to the flare connection to detect it. I tightened it and didn't get a reading. It's been running cold - a HUGE difference from the portable I had in there. It's such an overkill of a system - a 4 x 4 x 8 tent - that it takes nothing for it cool the area. I threw in my dehumidifier and my sealed room is complete, just in time for me to flip to flower!

Thank you so much for your generous help - it saved my ass. and hopefully this thread will help others in my position.



Merkin Donor said:


> No problem! Bummer, try using and returning if you can.  Otherwise keep it around, you might be able to recoup some cost by helping other growers with their systems.


Nah, I don't know anyone who grows - except my helpful friends here! I do this to grow a 1:1 thc/cbd strain for my dad with ALS and no one knows about it. I tell no one, that's why it's so hard for me to get help. RIU has always pulled through when I needed it.


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## Merkin Donor (May 17, 2015)

Sweet! Glad you are up and running!


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## 4runner1965 (Mar 7, 2017)

This is a great forum, I am in the process of recharging my Daikin mini split that lost all refrigerant and all this reading it's been so helpful, thanks again. I wonder if Merkin Donor still around since this is a very old post. Thanks again.


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## Merkin Donor (Mar 7, 2017)

4runner1965 said:


> This is a great forum, I am in the process of recharging my Daikin mini split that lost all refrigerant and all this reading it's been so helpful, thanks again. I wonder if Merkin Donor still around since this is a very old post. Thanks again.


Just start a new thread with your questions, lots easier than having it buried in the back of an old thread.


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## 4runner1965 (Mar 7, 2017)

I have started a new thread, hopefully you could help me there, thank you so much!


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