# LED Light Users. Please Click Here!



## xesvuli420 (Aug 19, 2009)

I am creating this forum for a place where REAL, SEASONED, LED users can come, and help people who are wanting to get the truth about LED's. *PLEASE, NO SALESMEN for LED company's* dishing out biased opinions, to sale a light. Please! Lets keep it fair, honest, and un-biased so people can decide if LED's are what they need individually, and if so, what type.

Lets be honest, there are a lot of opinions out there towards this type of lighting. Sadly most of the NEGATIVE opinions are from non-LED users, and most of the POSITIVE opinions are from LED Salesmen. 

If this technology is really worth trying out, then we need to talk about it. Discuss it with each other. Ask questions, Answer questions. LED's are quiet expensive, and the initial investment may scare people off, so hopefully this will be the place to come for the TRUTH, not sales gimmicks, no "Old Schoolers" dissing the thought of anything besides what they use. So please, If you have personally used a LED product, no matter what kind, *we really want your opinion!*

I really hope this thread explodes with information, results, and advice, so that people willing to try something new, can find quality products, and hopefully before long we can establish (if any!) what LED lights work, and which ones are complete junk. Thank you for any and all participation on your part.

_So lets do this like this, when you come in to this forum, please share your results PERSONALLY. Tell us the details of your LED light (Brand, Wattage, Type, Homemade, Etc) Links to the exact unit you are using would be great so people could check them out, and maybe purchase. Most importantly your honest opinion of your results, things you liked, things you didn't, if you would recommend this to someone you know, and anything else you want to share about your particular unit.
_


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 19, 2009)

Oh, lol I forgot to tell you about me. I personally will be investing in some type of LED due to 0 ventilation for an HPS, once I make a decision on which on is not crap. I will be using it for havest on 4-6 plants in a 12"X33" section. The LED I like the most is here...
http://eloofaimports.com/magento/index.php/ufo-grow-lights/90w-ufo-grow-light-triband.html?SID=26408364bca7e910b88dedee74e99bf3
If you guys feel this LED is not crap, please let me know and I will be trying one out.
here is a video of same LED...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvow9bPZMpk 

What do you expierienced guys think of this model? I can get a good deal on it, HOWEVER, If its junk, then the deal isn't good enough! Thanks guys!


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## Treeth (Aug 19, 2009)

Allright then you want a little truth? You wanna know why a _600 watt hps is STILL all you need to get?

_-This game is all about wattage, everyone. 

, and physics being what it is, those watts are _staying _in the room. you burn it, its heat.

And there is _no_ such thing as a low wattage grow light, much less one able to function as a _flowering_ light.

You know how many watts it takes to flower!?

Go and look at a 600 watt HPS.

So, get over your fear of taking control of the environmental variables. you have to, in order to grow correctly, to grow good, and use MORE POWER.

I fucking love jeremy clarkson. its just a simple maxim of life.


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 19, 2009)

Treeth said:


> a 600 watt hps is still all you really need to get though.


Why did you feel the need to post? 1. Your not a LED user, 2. You didn't even read the part where i said "I personally will be investing in some type of LED due to 0 ventilation for an HPS"

Please, its always harped on that HPS lights are superior to LEDs at the moment, however not everyone can use an HPS light. This thread is for those users. So kindly, if you have nothing to ad towards the topic at hand, please leave the space for those who do, and take your comment to a thread where HPS lights are an option. 
No disrespect intended man, but seriously that comment was un-neccesary


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 19, 2009)

Treeth said:


> Allright then you want a little truth? You wanna know why a _600 watt hps is STILL all you need to get?
> 
> _-This game is all about wattage, everyone.
> 
> ...


Again, a wasted post. back to the topic at hand.


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## The Kush Guy (Aug 19, 2009)

I, like you, was all excited about LEDs, no heat issues etc. I purchased two of the Blue panels, like these for a little test before I jumped in with both feet.
http://cgi.ebay.com/All-RED-225-LED-Grow-Light-Panel-for-BUDDING-FLOWERING_W0QQitemZ110297225224QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19ae3a1808&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

And tried to use them for Vegging some ladies, I very quickly abandoned them all together and after doing some heavy research into LEDs vs HPS the claims made by the LED sales guys didnt really add up. There are some fabulous articles about growing with LEDs, guys not growing bud but other plants that did some serious scientific research in their own labs to determine LEDs have uses but not by themselves for growing. 
Couple that with a little test of my own between a 4 small plants, 2 under CFLs and 2 under LEDs, same strain, same cloning etc. After about 2-3 weeks the CFL girls were doing well, the LED girls were not. I abandoned my test and started working out heating issues with CFLs as my longer term solution for veg.

Now the light you are talking about is equivalent to a 300-400 watt HPS and we are talking flower not veg, so you may find significantly different results, I just found for the money, it was better to go the tried and true method, I have a 600 HPS in a home made cool tube and it works great for about the same price as the LED. But of course I have venting and filtering to deal with which matches the cost of about two of the LEDs (which they claim is about 600-800 HPS watts).

Dont get me wrong, you can grow bud under LEDs, just not as dense or potent bud under LEDs as other options. At least that was the conclusion to my research.

To your credit, it did remind me about my LEDs and I am going to go dig them up and add them to a small Veg chamber I have with CFLS already in it. Spent the money, might as well get whatever I can out of the lights, even as a supplement.

Are you sure ventalation isnt possible for you?

I'd love to hear how the LED works out for you if thats the way you go. Happy growing.

TKG


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 19, 2009)

The Kush Guy said:


> Are you sure ventalation isnt possible for you?


Yes unfortunatly I am.
You mentioned you used blue LEDs right?

If so, no wonder they didn't do good for flowering, from all the research Ive done you need a red/blue unit with like 90red 10blue for flowering


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## The Kush Guy (Aug 19, 2009)

Yes, blue for Veg. Red for Flowering.

You might want to check this other guys thread I ran across, he has some 180watt triband, infrared, weed transmogrifier some company he deals with sold him.
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/225594-180w-jumbo-ufo-grow-progress.html

take a look at post 27, see the HPS vs LED, the buds on the HPS are more dense and thicker, the LED buds are airy and scrawny. Which is what the reading I did suggested would be the outcome. And he has a $700 retail LED light.

TKG


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 19, 2009)

ive grown with LED lights and still currently am so if you need answers ill try my best to answer from what i have experienced. or if anyone wants to buy two LED UFOs that have been used for a couple seasons, just over a year old, i can hook u up.


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## mindphuk (Aug 19, 2009)

Look into the tri-band lighting systems and ones that use the 5 watt Cree diodes. It's all about intensity and those .5w and 1w LEDs just don't pump out enough photons/sec. Remember to increase photosynthesis, increase the number of photons that fall on the leaves. A lot of low power LEDs is just spreading the area that the light will fall upon. To increase the intensity, you need to increase the power to the diodes.


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## Treeth (Aug 19, 2009)

fuck your spam little grower!!!!

_"i'm a bullet proof tiger!"_

- CREE is the good shit. YOU NEED to be running _nearly_ a WHOLE amp per diode to get the power down to match a 600 W HPS.


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## SupraSPL (Aug 19, 2009)

From what reviews I have read, the high powered LEDs will cause leaf twist if they are hung to low. Considering that, Im not so sure intensity is the problem. I suspect there are too many action spectrum peaks that are being neglected. MJ needs UVB, UVA, 425nm, 460nm, 480nm, 615 nm, 640nm, 660nm and supposedly IR wavelengths as well. 660nm is among the most important ones for flowering and HPS lamps definitely don't have peaks there. LED is definitely worth exploring. HPS leaves room for improvement IMO.


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## LiquidLumen (Aug 19, 2009)

"and physics being what it is, those watts are _staying _in the room. you burn it, its heat."


Sorry chief, thermodynamics says that the electrical energy (measured in Watts) going into the light fixture comes out in two forms: heat AND light- that's why certain lights are more efficient and superior that others- because for the same amount of energy consumed they produce more light and less heat...please refrain from citing scientific principles if you don't know what you're talking about


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## CSI Stickyicky (Aug 20, 2009)

Ok, a few things i've learned from LED research and use. Personally, i use a "Tri-band 90w UFO" from ebay. There are many manufacturers of UFOs, and not all are the same. The ones hightimes reveiwed were from HIDhut, and cost over 500. I got mine for 147 delivered. I use a 32 cubic foot grow tent, with an exhaust rated at 80 CFM, passive intake. With just the UFO, the temps stay around 80f. I also use CFLs. The temp can go up to 95! The plants still grow everyday, but the leafs do show signs of overheating. So far im vegging. For Flowering, i would like to add either some uvb and ir, or a low power HPS (70 to 250) but we'll see. I should be able to flower with the UFO and a few CFLs. 

So the cons are that it still gets pretty warm in there, Im saving up for a better fan. It doesnt put out uvb, either, wondering how that will affect trichome production. Also, the plants transpire way less water, so i have to water them way less than most books/reliable sources say you have to. Also, the penetration isnt the greatest. the top leaves are lit up pretty well, but the lower leaves miss out. (part of the reason why i also use CFLs) It takes a little trial and error to find the right height. i'd say its best when not closer than 6 inches from light, the multiple colors need space to spread out and mix. 

The pros include way less heat output and less energy used. I really do like the UFO so far, there has been no stretching, and the plants are healthy. If it doesnt work for flowering, im sure i could grow tomatoes all year inside. I think LEDs are the future of growing. Id like to see somebody mix LEDs into one of sunshine systems moving lights. (i saw them at the local hydro shop. picture a ceiling fan with lights instead of blades.) 

So to the dude who started this thread, i know what you would like to hear is "LEDs will totally work no problem" but it seems they still have some kinks to work out. If you want to try it out, i say go for it! But just know, that you will need some sort of ventilation, no matter what light you use. Keep watching my grow journal to see if flowering works, im going to switch the light cycle this month.


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 20, 2009)

Treeth said:


> fuck your spam little grower!!!!
> 
> _"i'm a bullet proof tiger!"_
> 
> - CREE is the good shit. YOU NEED to be running _nearly_ a WHOLE amp per diode to get the power down to match a 600 W HPS.


hahahah what did i do this time???


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## Mindmelted (Aug 20, 2009)

I would like to know who said led's do not produce heat.
I bought 1 of the 90 watt ufo and put in a small grow tent.
The temps got up to 92f with that ufo.


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 20, 2009)

CSI Stickyicky said:


> Ok, a few things i've learned from LED research and use. Personally, i use a "Tri-band 90w UFO" from ebay. There are many manufacturers of UFOs, and not all are the same. The ones hightimes reveiwed were from HIDhut, and cost over 500. I got mine for 147 delivered. I use a 32 cubic foot grow tent, with an exhaust rated at 80 CFM, passive intake. With just the UFO, the temps stay around 80f. I also use CFLs. The temp can go up to 95! The plants still grow everyday, but the leafs do show signs of overheating. So far im vegging. For Flowering, i would like to add either some uvb and ir, or a low power HPS (70 to 250) but we'll see. I should be able to flower with the UFO and a few CFLs.
> 
> So the cons are that it still gets pretty warm in there, Im saving up for a better fan. It doesnt put out uvb, either, wondering how that will affect trichome production. Also, the plants transpire way less water, so i have to water them way less than most books/reliable sources say you have to. Also, the penetration isnt the greatest. the top leaves are lit up pretty well, but the lower leaves miss out. (part of the reason why i also use CFLs) It takes a little trial and error to find the right height. i'd say its best when not closer than 6 inches from light, the multiple colors need space to spread out and mix.
> 
> ...


have you used HPS? from what i have seen comparing my grows with others that use HPS, is that the growth and stagger of the plants in LED is alot less and slower than HPS. i thought mine werent stretching but in all reality i just didnt know how short and stalky these things trully can be. i had a few trial and errors with these lights and one of the most important things is, like you said, they dont penetrate the canopy for shit. about the first 6 to 10 inchs are in good light but after that it gets fairly dark. when you go into flowering that makes a large problem unless you trim off a good majority of the lower growth. also the number of plants is something to take into account. with a large number i had very bad results due to bad root growth and just not enough power for anything over 6 plants. when i switched to 6 in bubbeponics is when i got the best results. but if you cant control the level of your plants as well then you will loose out on your final harvest. control your stretch in flower and im sure the mix of cfl wth the led with give you some decent results. i hope..


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## Mindmelted (Aug 20, 2009)

Led's are not even close yet.
Yes i have tried one,not worth the time.


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 20, 2009)

xesvuli420 said:


> "I personally will be investing in some type of LED due to 0 ventilation for an HPS"


Why not do the sensible thing, and invest in proper ventilation instead. It's not just there to keep the lights cool, it also provides fresh air for the plants, and is usually a prerequisite for odor control.


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 20, 2009)

LED's are blowing HID lighting away both in performance and power consumption.

They now make REAL 300W and 600W TRUE LED's that have 5 band spectrums that include UV and IR. ALL 5 bands of needed light spectrums are covered and can be controlled individually for different stages of growth ( e.g. veg, flower..ect...).

From the test already done, these LED's blows HPS out of the water. There is literally no comparison. The price for these lights are whacked right now in the 4 grand range.

You will see and hear about them soon enough. There are already a few video's out and some sites with test growers using them. so save the flameing...the proof is REAL!! Accecpt it or not.....LED is the future and as soon as some of these "slower" learning growers realize whats up they will be VERY happy to toss those HID's in the garbage.


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 20, 2009)

Bullethead21 said:


> LED's are blowing HID lighting away both in performance and power consumption.
> 
> They now make REAL 300W and 600W TRUE LED's that have 5 band spectrums that include UV and IR. ALL 5 bands of needed light spectrums are covered and can be controlled individually for different stages of growth ( e.g. veg, flower..ect...).
> 
> ...



Whilst you may be correct on some of this info, it doesn't change anything RIGHT NOW. Until these superior LED lights are mass-produced and available, it doesn't mean shit.

Unless you want to sit on your hands for a few years until you can get one, or pay some stupidly high price just to be one of the "cool kids", they are not yet a viable option for a decent grow setup.


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 20, 2009)

Did not say they were at current. I was stating they ARE superior to ANY HID lighting made and they ARE the future!

Maybe you should re-read not only what I posted but this entire thread.

YOu can build them yourself if you wanted to use one now, BTW.

Just another negative type post agaisnt LED lighting from people who do not know better.


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## Mindmelted (Aug 20, 2009)

It is a good dream though


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 20, 2009)

Bullethead21 said:


> Did not say they were at current. I was stating they ARE superior to ANY HID lighting made and they ARE the future!
> 
> Maybe you should re-read not only what I posted but this entire thread.
> 
> ...


I agree that LEDs will one day replace HID lighting, but like I said, that day is not yet. You implied that anyone who is using HPS is "slow", or somehow retarded, when in fact the opposite is true. The growers who have paid out money for the current incarnation of LED grow lights are, in my opinion, somewhat dim.

You can say that something is "the future" as many times as you want, but that doesn't mean that everyone should jump on the bandwagon with inferior early versions. You'd only have to upgrade anyway when these super-duper new ones finally make it to consumer level. As for building your own, i'd be interested in seeing how much that would cost, and also a completed grow by someone who doesn't have a vested interest in selling the components required. Only then would I feel confident in switching over.

BTW, maybe you should read the thread yourself. All conversation up until your post was regarding the current generation on the market. Everyone knows that they are "the future", but we're talking about !"the now".

Show me one decent *led-only* grow and i'll kindly shut the fuck up.


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## Treeth (Aug 20, 2009)

No its true, they're the future and the immediate future.

LEDs are even arguably better than those new plasma lights...

ya'll just gotta wait. not very many people are working on it.

I'd post my grow but i dont have privacy- its an led success. 

Just to let you know I can say this now, it works, at the very least, on a watt for watt basis against the almighty hps.


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## CSI Stickyicky (Aug 21, 2009)

littlegrower2004 said:


> have you used HPS? from what i have seen comparing my grows with others that use HPS, is that the growth and stagger of the plants in LED is alot less and slower than HPS. i thought mine werent stretching but in all reality i just didnt know how short and stalky these things trully can be. i had a few trial and errors with these lights and one of the most important things is, like you said, they dont penetrate the canopy for shit. about the first 6 to 10 inchs are in good light but after that it gets fairly dark. when you go into flowering that makes a large problem unless you trim off a good majority of the lower growth. also the number of plants is something to take into account. with a large number i had very bad results due to bad root growth and just not enough power for anything over 6 plants. when i switched to 6 in bubbeponics is when i got the best results. but if you cant control the level of your plants as well then you will loose out on your final harvest. control your stretch in flower and im sure the mix of cfl wth the led with give you some decent results. i hope..


No i havent used HPS this is my first real attempt at indoor. i have been reading many posts/books/magazines about growing, and have seen a lot of pictures of HID grows that have way more space in between nodes than i do, so i assume that mine arent stretching. Im sure bushiness depends on strain too. Also, alot of plants that seem more stretched than mine are larger gardens with many plants sharing the same light. I only have 5 plants, and plan to have less as i get into it. I agree that the LEDs arent for larger gardens (yet) I would ideally like to have 2 in veg 2 in flower, to keep under 4 total. I think with the LEDs and CFLs, i should get something.


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 21, 2009)

Sorry Nocturn3, I really just dont care that your that far behind and cant seem to even understand what I am saying or grasp it.

Not trying to be an ass, I just wont go into a debate I cant win simply because you lack the knowledge of LED capabilities....TODAY! 

No worries, the general mass will get caught up soon enough on just what LED lighting can do an how they will replace HID lighting...except for the hardhead diehards....hehe

Dont worry Nocturn3, you will be "enlightned'' soon enough.

CUrrently there is only one company I know of that make the true 300W and 600W LED 5 band lights. Each of the 5 bands of colors/spectrums can be controlled seperatly. Like when your in veg you just turn on the blue band and so on.....even has UV and IR that is also computer controlled. These lights are bad to the bone and blow ANY HPS light away. Im telling you its not even a fair comparison.

The UV can be used to increase trichrome production like you have never seen! Literaly must see to understand! I just wish they didnt cost like 3 grand......the only down side to them....unless you happen to be rich..hehe

Hopefully the price will come down maybe after they are pushed on the market. Might be that only "Elite" growers and true hobbiest will be using these type LED's....who knows......
Peace!


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## RPsmoke420 (Aug 21, 2009)

I know my post is fairly moot, I have no personal experience with LED. 

HOWEVER.... my local dispensary does. They have a large setup, both for veg and for flower. Plants look great, nice dense buds, decent yield, heat isn't as MUCH of an issue, but simple ventilation is still required. I have seen these plants grow first hand, and I have smoked their product. LED's do work. I just do not know what type of LED setup they have. I will be back there this weekend, and I will talk to them about their current setup more, and get back to yall. Sorry I didn't have more info for you, but I do know it can work, with a proper setup and the right amount of cash.


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 21, 2009)

Treeth said:


> No its true, they're the future and the immediate future





Treeth said:


> ya'll just gotta wait.


I agree with this. However, for those that just want to grow weed NOW, HPS is the way to go. If you think you might want to grow weed in months or years from now, and you will have plenty of money to burn, then by all means wait.


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 21, 2009)

ok guys, easy does it. this thread was designed to post information about LED's from *people who have used them*. However it again looks as if its turning into -my daddy can kick your daddy's ass- thread. Please the topic is LED USERS SHARE YOUR RESULTS, not is HPS better than LED.

We are really comparing apples to oranges, This thread is for those who *A. Can't use HPS (like me), B. Are running experiments with LEDs. or C. Have used LEDs in the past for whatever reason*. By no means are we trying to find out which one has the bigger ball sack. Lets stop fighting, and start posting more results, so that people who _have to, or just want to_ can come to a better buying decision on which LEDs just might not suck that bad.

Thanks everyone!


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 21, 2009)

Bullethead21 said:


> Sorry Nocturn3, I really just dont care that your that far behind and cant seem to even understand what I am saying or grasp it.
> 
> Not trying to be an ass, I just wont go into a debate I cant win simply because you lack the knowledge of LED capabilities....TODAY!
> 
> ...


Okay, i'll put this another way:

You're saying that paying 3+ grand for a light is a good idea. I could take that 3 grand, use it to setup a decent HPS grow, including fans, CF, nutes, and also cover all the running costs, for many grows.

Then after several years of what amounts to free weed, I could then buy one of these super-duper LED lights, which by then costs just a couple of hundred, because they are now mass produced and affordable. Also, by this point, tweaks have been made, a few extra parts of the spectrum have been added in for completeness, and your original 3 grand prototype is an outdated, inferior model compared to the cheaper, refined version.

Or I could buy the 3 grand light now, just to be part of "the future", and still have to cover all the other setup and running costs of any grows I undertake, only to be gutted in a few years time when my expensive light is worth fuck all by comparison, and I have to upgrade anyway.


I have a very good idea of how technology advances, moreso than you by the sounds of it. I get the feeling that you have made some retarded purchase of an inferior light, and now are trying to desperately justify it by making yourself out to be some kind of visionary who is ahead of your time.

What light do you currently use, just out of curiosity?


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 21, 2009)

xesvuli420 said:


> ok guys, easy does it. this thread was designed to post information about LED's from *people who have used them*. However it again looks as if its turning into -my daddy can kick your daddy's ass- thread. Please the topic is LED USERS SHARE YOUR RESULTS, not is HPS better than LED.
> 
> We are really comparing apples to oranges, This thread is for those who *A. Can't use HPS (like me), B. Are running experiments with LEDs. or C. Have used LEDs in the past for whatever reason*. By no means are we trying to find out which one has the bigger ball sack. Lets stop fighting, and start posting more results, so that people who _have to, or just want to_ can come to a better buying decision on which LEDs just might not suck that bad.
> 
> Thanks everyone!


Sorry dude, I missed this post, and you are right. Please don't mistake me for some kind of HPS fanboy, as I truly do see the potential for LEDs in time to come.

Whilst I have never grown with LEDs, I have read a lot about them over previous years, seen hundreds of grows with them, and feel well able to judge what the current generation of them are capable of.

I am always interested to see the results that they will produce, and hope that they do consistently outperform HPS some time soon. I am not some kid who is trying to justify what I currently have, like some console fanboy. I am a dedicated grower who has a serious interest in what works best for our purposes.

I am interested in what you said about lack of ventilation. My view is that any money you would spend on expensive lighting would be better spent on sorting out airflow instead. I am curious as to why you think differently.


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## Mindmelted (Aug 21, 2009)

Air flow is critical for healthy plants.
And like i said before used a led and got WAY better results with a 150 hps than the 90w ufo.
Anybody can use hid.I live in a apartment so you can not use that as a excuse.
And then how about light penetration,led can not penetrate as deep as a hid.


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 22, 2009)

Check this LED grow out

hxxp://xxx.ledgrow.eu


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 22, 2009)

Bullethead21 said:


> Check this LED grow out
> 
> hxxp://xxx.ledgrow.eu



Nice link, although i have already read it. Maybe you should read the actual words instead of looking at the pretty pictures. Pay particular attention to the "facts and theory" page, as well as this statement on the page you linked to:

"I recommend to doubt the words of anybody who claims growing Marijuana with Led's is already available, ask for proof, only results count. 
Don't buy the stuff that is being sold on ebay etc, no matter what claims they make, HPS is much better."

Added to this is the fact that this guy has a vested interest in making his _future_ product sound great. When it hits the market, and is independently verified by growers, then I will be convinced. I still wouldn't buy one immediately though, for the reasons I outlined in my earlier post.

Again I will ask, what light are you currently using?


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## Mindmelted (Aug 22, 2009)

Keeps dancing around the questions


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 22, 2009)

Mindmelted said:


> Air flow is critical for healthy plants.
> And like i said before used a led and got WAY better results with a 150 hps than the 90w ufo.
> Anybody can use hid.I live in a apartment so you can not use that as a excuse.
> And then how about light penetration,led can not penetrate as deep as a hid.


Again, this is a thread for future LED users to come to find out results for particular LEDs, this isnt a thread for hid fanboys to argue with led fanboys. If you have used a led before, and have had bad results, then please tell us the led you used, and what happened. If not then this isn't the right thread for you.
Thanks


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 22, 2009)

Bullethead21 said:


> Check this LED grow out
> 
> hxxp://xxx.ledgrow.eu


Bullethead, If you want true results, then you can't pay close attention to "LED TEST" from sites that sale those particular devices. They just want to sale their LEDs. I have heard of sites now that will grow using HID, but come picture day, will throw their UFO into the shot. We have to be careful what exactly we believe, and I personally just don't believe any results unless they come from unbiased regular joe's like us who give LEDs a fair shot, and tell us how they work. But thanks for trying to help the thread. It's people like you that help this community learn new tips, tricks, and ideas.


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 22, 2009)

Bullethead21 said:


> Check this LED grow out
> 
> hxxp://xxx.ledgrow.eu


haha did anyone see the results this guy got??? the best he got was his 6th attempt and only pulled 52 g. im sorry but what was the point of checking this led grow bullet??? 

edit: o wait the 5th grow was his best with near 60 g.


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 22, 2009)

Mindmelted said:


> Anybody can use hid.I live in a apartment so you can not use that as a excuse.


Actually there are reasons why people can't do things. 
Lets look at the cons of HID systems...
*
Heat*-What if you can't allow much heat buildup, closet grow, cabinet grow, any grow where lack of ventilation could be a problem.
*Power increase*-A safe grow is a happy grow, It is a fact that any HID light will increase the users power bill. a 150w will raise it 4-12 dollars, a 250 from 15-30, and a 400 from 30-60. (these are estimates when using the HID only 12 hours. so If you use it more, then guess what) Some people are paranoid about power company narc's, or just can't let a grow go noticed to the payer of the power bill.
*Price*- Guess what, now-a-days the led's can actually be cheaper than HPS systems. As long as you make sure the specs are the same as the more expensive units, then IMO you are getting the a product that should work just as good.
*Quiet*-Again, in a place where stealth is the key, you don't hear any BZZZZZZZZ coming from under the door.

Long story short, just because you can get away with it, doesn't mean everyone can! Sometimes people have to do things they don't want to do, (like me). Coming here to tell them that they are stupid just doesn't work for me. Most people here are out of options, and its either use LEDs or don't grow. Of course some are here just because they want to try something out. I shouldn't even submit this post because this thread is for those who are looking to make the right investment decision in a quality LED product. We are not debating which one is better. Oh well! have a nice day


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 22, 2009)

I give up....tired of trying to point out something that is so freakin obvious if they would only spend the time and LEARN!

You guys will be caught up in a bout 5 years maybe if your lucky. Personally never seen such moronic statements made by people that are just bored I guess so they decide to make up some shit they have no idea what they are even talking about or light spectrums or anything.......I forgot the golden rule.....you cant fix stupid!

Sorry, I tried to enlighten some of the peeps that honestly came to this thread to learn about the future uses of LED lighting for growing..but this just aint worth it.......

Good luck in the future guys with whatever you decide to use or grow!

Peace!


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## Mindmelted (Aug 22, 2009)

See that is the problem.The future,you stated that they are better NOW.Which is not the future.
So which is it,bettter now or the future.


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 22, 2009)

Bullethead21 said:


> I give up....tired of trying to point out something that is so freakin obvious if they would only spend the time and LEARN!
> 
> You guys will be caught up in a bout 5 years maybe if your lucky. Personally never seen such moronic statements made by people that are just bored I guess so they decide to make up some shit they have no idea what they are even talking about or light spectrums or anything.......I forgot the golden rule.....you cant fix stupid!
> 
> ...


hahhahahha wat have you tried teaching anyone?? all you have said is that some ppl r using super powerful high wattage LEDs and are getting good results. no body on this forum has used said LEDs so what the hell is the point of bringing them up in a thread where ppl r trying to learn from others that have grown with LEDs. ya we all believe that LED is going to be a big part of growing tech in the FUTURE, but right now its not for any one on this site. this thread is LED light users by the way, not LED is the future. he never asked if anyone knew about what the future held for LED.


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 22, 2009)

xesvuli420 said:


> Actually there are reasons why people can't do things.
> Lets look at the cons of HID systems...
> *
> Heat*-What if you can't allow much heat buildup, closet grow, cabinet grow, any grow where lack of ventilation could be a problem.


Heat will still be a problem with LEDs, and lack of ventilation will make your plants suffer.



xesvuli420 said:


> *Power increase*-A safe grow is a happy grow, It is a fact that any HID light will increase the users power bill. a 150w will raise it 4-12 dollars, a 250 from 15-30, and a 400 from 30-60. (these are estimates when using the HID only 12 hours. so If you use it more, then guess what) Some people are paranoid about power company narc's, or just can't let a grow go noticed to the payer of the power bill.


If you think an extra 150 watts will get you noticed, you are obviously far to paranoid. Added to this, your last statement speaks volumes about your situation. I'm guessing you are a kid who still lives with your parents, right?




xesvuli420 said:


> *Price*- Guess what, now-a-days the led's can actually be cheaper than HPS systems. As long as you make sure the specs are the same as the more expensive units, then IMO you are getting the a product that should work just as good.


_Not a chance in hell of this being true._




xesvuli420 said:


> *Quiet*-Again, in a place where stealth is the key, you don't hear any BZZZZZZZZ coming from under the door.


_You mean from an HPS ballast, or from a fan? Most decent ballasts don't buzz, and if you are planning to run any kind of grow with no fans, you are a fool, whether you use leds or hids._




xesvuli420 said:


> Long story short, just because you can get away with it, doesn't mean everyone can! Sometimes people have to do things they don't want to do, (like me). Coming here to tell them that they are stupid just doesn't work for me. Most people here are out of options, and its either use LEDs or don't grow. Of course some are here just because they want to try something out. I shouldn't even submit this post because this thread is for those who are looking to make the right investment decision in a quality LED product. We are not debating which one is better. Oh well! have a nice day


Here's another option for you: CFLs. They are low wattage, cheap as hell, and most importantly, proven to work. Don't waste your money on gimmicks for the sake of some "dandelion bud".

Above all else, get some ventilation sorted. If you can't, then you have picked a bad grow spot, and your plants will yield very little, if they even make it to harvest.This advice applies whether you use LED, CFL or HID. Plants need fresh air.


BTW, here's where I got the "dandelion bud reference" from. This thread is written by a grower who was objective about LEDs, did everything right, and still got terrible results (just like 99% of the others do). I think it gives a pretty good idea of what the current generation lights are capable of:
*
180w jumbo ufo grow(in progress) *


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## Bullethead21 (Aug 23, 2009)

WOW...your so far behind, and your head so far up your ass.... I would not know where to begin....like I said earlier, all you LED's haters will be eatin shit very soon..as NOW as in TODAY...not lights of the FUTURE!!

You wouldn't know the "point" if it was stuck up your ass idiot!

If you had read or are even capable of reading I was talking about PRICING in the future numnutz...not the LED technology which you obviously know NOTHING about!

Thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting on public boards......people like you! I can do without! 



littlegrower2004 said:


> hahhahahha wat have you tried teaching anyone?? all you have said is that some ppl r using super powerful high wattage LEDs and are getting good results. no body on this forum has used said LEDs so what the hell is the point of bringing them up in a thread where ppl r trying to learn from others that have grown with LEDs. ya we all believe that LED is going to be a big part of growing tech in the FUTURE, but right now its not for any one on this site. this thread is LED light users by the way, not LED is the future. he never asked if anyone knew about what the future held for LED.


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bullethead21, you still haven't told us what light setup you are using.


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bullethead21 said:


> I give up....tired of trying to point out something that is so freakin obvious if they would only spend the time and LEARN!
> 
> You guys will be caught up in a bout 5 years maybe if your lucky. Personally never seen such moronic statements made by people that are just bored I guess so they decide to make up some shit they have no idea what they are even talking about or light spectrums or anything.......I forgot the golden rule.....you cant fix stupid!
> 
> ...





Bullethead21 said:


> *Did not say they were at current*. I was stating they ARE superior to ANY HID lighting made and *they ARE the future!*
> 
> Maybe you should re-read not only what I posted but this entire thread.
> 
> ...


i could find about 3 more posts just like this from you bullet. all your saying is a single company is making high power LEDs and that they will be the future once they hit market. and if you seriously think one company will be able to supply the whole growing community with these LEDs your stupider than you seem. mayb you should realize ive used current LEDs that are in the market right now and i still am using them. u havent shown any proof of you using or even seeing LEDs grow. all you have said is these new lights can out grow HID and yuo have to see to believe. if only one company is using them how did you get your dumb ass to see them??


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## Crimble (Aug 23, 2009)

One of the bigger problems I see with the "Are L.E.D. lights a true alternative to using HID lights?" debate is the generlization of what kind of L.E.D.'s can be applied to a grow.

Just saying "I grown with an L.E.D." is too general for me, you could be using LED Christmas lights for all we know, and in the end, your statement of "LED'S suck for growing" would seem valid 

What about the type of company and spectrum and wattage and genetics, hydro, soil, air, reflection, ect... so many other factors to just have people post "LED's suck man". 

Not many people talk about the feature of simplicity that an LED option offers over any HID option. The elimination of ballasts, hoods, extension cords from the ballasts to the hoods, excessive heat, weight (in case needing to break down shop real quick) come into considderation for me at least. 

Is anyone using GROWL L.E.D.s or are you using that UFO product? Homemade and DIY's should be put in another thread. I only want to know about real established company's, what ones besides Growl and UFo exist?

I think GROWL company is on the right track, maybe not today but they seem to be doing everything right to get the best science and best product produced. (I have nothing to do with them other than buying a veg light from that I have yet to use)

From everything I can see, and have done research on, it seems to me that at the VERY least, the "all blue" veg lights from Growl that I have seen seem to be a REAL alternative to using HID for *vegetation*. That to me IS a positive point and one that the LED industry should be happy to build on. If you can eliminate the need for ballasts, hood ventilation, and extra wiring in your veg room, its a start and it will help with simplifying your operation.

I'm sorry to not have first hand knowledge of how an LED will produce bud, that to me is the real question... Can you get just as Dense, Potent Bud, with an LED as you can with an HID?


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 23, 2009)

ok im not sure why ppl think that LEDs dont come with ballasts??? both my LED UFOs have ballast so why do ppl keep saying they dont?? if they dont have a ballast then i would doubt they even have enough power to truely need one. for answering the ? can you get dense... from my experience the bud doesnt compare to that of HPS. yes its dense and potent but quantity and the amount of dense buds is less than HPS. the top nugs are nice and dense for my strains GDP, Killer Queen, and Grape Ape but lower than 6in the buds get real airy and weak. i have taken the same strains under HPS and the results blew the LEDs to shame. with LEDs not producing much heat they can be placed closely to the plants which increases the light intensity to the direct tops, imo causes the dense nugs. with HPS the lights can b a foot away and still got a foot of dense buds.


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## jay510 (Aug 23, 2009)

i will be the first my L.E.D works nice so far on my shorter plant nice dense buds as for my taller plants they look nice to they youger than my shorter one i will say get an led its works you be the judge for yourself and these are real pic grown from led thank let me know what you think


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 23, 2009)

Crimble said:


> One of the bigger problems I see with the "Are L.E.D. lights a true alternative to using HID lights?" debate is the generlization of what kind of L.E.D.'s can be applied to a grow.
> 
> Just saying "I grown with an L.E.D." is too general for me, you could be using LED Christmas lights for all we know, and in the end, your statement of "LED'S suck for growing" would seem valid
> 
> ...


I agree with you that LEDs seem to perform very well during veg. I wouldn't spend that much on a veg light myself, but if I had a lot of disposable income, I would be happy to get one, based on what I have seen them do.

Flowering is a different story entirely. There is not a chance in hell I would consider any of the current, commercially available setups as my sole means of flowering. If I was growing lettuce I would, but not weed. 

Speaking of which, check out this site for the procyon 100. This will show anyone who labels me as a "hater" or HPS fanboy that I am aware of what LEDs are _potentially_ capable of. If that was a budded weed plant rather than a lettuce, I would be sold. 

I think the development of LED grow lights stalled when NASA was satisfied with the range of crops they were growing. If they were interested in growing weed in space, we would have decent LED flowering lights by now.


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 23, 2009)

jay510 said:


> i will be the first my L.E.D works nice so far on my shorter plant nice dense buds as for my taller plants they look nice to they youger than my shorter one i will say get an led its works you be the judge for yourself and these are real pic grown from led thank let me know what you think


haha holy shit!!! how much did u spend on getting all those LEDs?? looks like a few UFOs with a pyrocon in there possibly. along with a bunch of CFLs. all that money and you could have got one HPS and done just as good if not better.

haha and im not even a LED hater, i grow with these and still think thats absurd to have all that in there.


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 23, 2009)

jay510 said:


> i will be the first my L.E.D works nice so far on my shorter plant nice dense buds as for my taller plants they look nice to they youger than my shorter one i will say get an led its works you be the judge for yourself and these are real pic grown from led thank let me know what you think


That seems like a potentially expensive setup mate. Looks nice though. What wattage are you running in total? How much of it is CFL?

Also, have you had a harvest from these lights yet?


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## jay510 (Aug 23, 2009)

littlegrower2004 said:


> haha holy shit!!! how much did u spend on getting all those LEDs?? looks like a few UFOs with a pyrocon in there possibly. along with a bunch of CFLs. all that money and you could have got one HPS and done just as good if not better.
> 
> haha and im not even a LED hater, i grow with these and still think thats absurd to have all that in there.


hahaha back at you i got money to play with hater and i also have 2 1000w hps and 2 600w hps setup hater i seen your fuckups with L.E.D ur dont know what the fuck your doing with L.E.D grow get ur weight up then holla at me


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## jay510 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nocturn3 said:


> That seems like a potentially expensive setup mate. Looks nice though. What wattage are you running in total? How much of it is CFL?
> 
> Also, have you had a harvest from these lights yet?


i have 3 90w ufo and a 120w panel and 3 68w cfl i guess totally 530w i one little fan room stay around 82 degrees without a/c im saving money on electric bill thats why i switch to LED and this will be my first grow with them ill let you know foreal on the dry harvest


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 23, 2009)

jay510 said:


> i have 3 90w ufo and a 120w panel and 3 68w cfl i guess totally 530w i one little fan room stay around 82 degrees without a/c im saving money on electric bill thats why i switch to LED and this will be my first grow with them ill let you know foreal on the dry harvest


Cool, I'd be interested to see the results. I think you're in with a better chance than LED-only growers by implementing the CFLs. I hear they help make up some of what the LEDs are lacking, spectrum-wise, and the 2 types of light combined has the potential to yield better than either type alone would.

Keep us posted. How long do your girls have left?


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## Crimble (Aug 23, 2009)

"ok im not sure why ppl think that LEDs dont come with ballasts??? both my LED UFOs have ballast so why do ppl keep saying they dont?? if they dont have a ballast then i would doubt they even have enough power to truely need one."

The Growl LED's say they don't need one, they just plug into a 120v outlet, just like a CPU or a TV. 

"yes its dense and potent but quantity and the amount of dense buds is less than HPS"

Thank you, that is the feed back I think this thread was intended for. 

So it seems to me that the general consensus is that:
Light penetration to the lower/under canopy during flower is one main draw back?

Can reflective material solve or signifigantly reduce this issue? One solution I have seen, for my friends who use the Growl LED units, is mount a unit not only from the ceiling but also the 4 sides (walls) as well. With LED's you have more mounting placement options I would think because of the reduced heat and small size of the LED unit.


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 23, 2009)

The growl lights may or may not be good, but their website alone does little to inspire confidence. They make the same bullshit claims about what their lights are supposed to replace, and have nothing to back this up. There is also a distinct lack of any kind of technical information. Just marketing BS. It seems like they are trying to appeal to impulse buyers, rather than serious growers.

As for the lights themselves, the lumen ratings seem abysmal, and whilst I know the "lumens are for humans" bullshit, that's the only measurement of light they give you on their site, and 12000 lumens for 300 watt seems shocking to me. Is this normal for LEDs?


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## jay510 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nocturn3 said:


> Cool, I'd be interested to see the results. I think you're in with a better chance than LED-only growers by implementing the CFLs. I hear they help make up some of what the LEDs are lacking, spectrum-wise, and the 2 types of light combined has the potential to yield better than either type alone would.
> 
> Keep us posted. How long do your girls have left?


the smaller ones in about 2 weeks the taller ones the end of sept ill let you know


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## mipbar (Aug 23, 2009)

I purchased 2 UFO Tribands from High Tech Garden off Ebay for ~$200 a piece, and vegged 8 plants flawlessly with MG soil. 5 weeks, no nutes, and different strains ranged from 14-21 inches tall, blue mystic, shortest, and strawberry haze tallest. I was going to wait 6 weeks, but they grew too tall as it is.

I just put them into 12/12, but with a 400w hps and one LED UFO, with the other LED doing a clone job at the moment.


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 24, 2009)

OK, I just personally invested in 2 of these boogers. 660nm Red, blue, and "warm" white LEDs... (I think the warm part is just a sales gimmick.) And I know these are the best because the salesman told me "Our LEDs are the most efficient ones on the market" <--lmao sarcasm. But he was really friendly, and he took the price I offered (that could be a bad thing lol) Either way I know that the LEDs are 1w CREE LEDs, and I will be using these in place of HPS for flowering.. Shut up HPS fanboys, i know, i know, HPS systems are better, BUT I HAVE NO CHOICE! I will keep the results posted for anyone who wants to know. I may even start a journal.


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 24, 2009)

xesvuli420 said:


> OK, I just personally invested in 2 of these boogers. 660nm Red, blue, and "warm" white LEDs... (I think the warm part is just a sales gimmick.) And I know these are the best because the salesman told me "Our LEDs are the most efficient ones on the market" <--lmao sarcasm. But he was really friendly, and he took the price I offered (that could be a bad thing lol) Either way I know that the LEDs are 1w CREE LEDs, and I will be using these in place of HPS for flowering.. Shut up HPS fanboys, i know, i know, HPS systems are better, BUT I HAVE NO CHOICE! I will keep the results posted for anyone who wants to know. I may even start a journal.


What brand/wattage lights did you get? Also, how much were they, if you don't mind my asking?

I would be interested in your results, although I suspect they will be disappointing. If you want to be in with a better chance, throw a few CFLs in there too, and above all else, sort out some form of ventilation.

Good luck with your grow anyway.


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## marijuana.john.doe (Aug 24, 2009)

Hey chuck norris,
I've been doing a lot of research on led lights and yes it would seem that they still have some developing to do. I think one of the main problems is that there are so many knockoff companies making a buck with cheap products and as a result the lights are getting a bad rep. Remember, these companies know what people want to hear. With cheaper prices these companies are also pushing more of their products into the market place, hence all the mixed results. I did much research before purchasing my led, 90w ufo from sunshine systems http://shop.sunshine-systems.com/product.sc?productId=8 . There prices are coming down, and you can also get a 10% discount by typing in the code "facebook10" at checkout. I would like to say that it works great but I have yet to finish a grow (just moved). My plants are roughly 3 feet and do not seem to get dense light on their bottom leaves. This is only due to the large fan leaves. I will be correcting this by adding a light mover. Hydrofarm makes some linear movers that can be found on ebay for about a 100 bucks. In my opinion a cheap way to supply even growth. I know its too late but you probably should have purchased yours from a reputable manufacturer, this one even has a 90 day guarantee, http://www.prosourceworldwide.com/Default.asp?Redirected=Y . Another positive of this company is that they are continually redeveloping their lights, notice 5 band spectrum on their ufo. Unfortunately I found this light after purchasing the one from sunshine systems. Hope this helps and I will keep you posted in the future with pics.


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## Crimble (Aug 25, 2009)

"you think GROWL makes anything? wrong. middle man. imports, whorehousing, and marketing.

Havn't you seen those same panels fro sale everywhere?

well guess what? they use a shit brand of shitty leds from china with unpublished white papers, meaning they;re piss poor and only for high volume industrial applications. 

the leds that are useful, the 1 amp leds, yes 1 amp, are whats good. "

ummmm... With all due respect Treeth, I know I have seen you post on here allot and I know you are very much a part of this site, but you are wrong when it come to GROWL L.E.D.'s

From their own site... 

"All LED's Made In USA"
"Power = 576x1W"
"Custom Orders"

Having personally spoken with this comany, I assure you they make their own product and they only use Bridgelux LED's in all their lights, the Bridgelux are made in the Silicon Vally dude, look it up before you post nonsense. or you could actually do real research and call and ask for Jason of Stephany at Growl if you don't believe me. 

"Havn't you seen those same panels fro sale everywhere?"

I have seen re-sellers and e-bay auctions, however, the Growl company makes their own panels and they are trying to have resellers through out the US and beyond. Just like apple or another hardware manufacture out there would do. Can't you go to a million sites that re-sell Ipods? 

"Leds do have "ballasts" aka rectifiers"

Are you trying to say that an LED panel will require a ballast to plug into and than that ballast needs to be plugged in for power? If so, with the Growls, you plug into a standard 120, no ballasts at all, you are way wrong in that case. 
With all due respect, that is.


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## Treeth (Aug 25, 2009)

its internal.

just cause its out of sight doesn't mean its in there... producing heat, running at probably between 60-70 % effeciency...

leds are strictly dc. most commonly on 12 v. think of them as... pieces of computer equipment. 

so its there, you would only have to disassemble a unit, that bulk is there for a reason. 

I apologize for dismissing Growl so quickly. Looking at the pics more closely, i can now tell that the leds are of surface mount persuasion... which generally means the can handle POWER. Still, the case... they buy the casing, i'll bet they also buy the power supply... from one of those same companies in shenzen. 

oh yeah, 

ask steph how they came to "300w led equals a 1000 watt hps" cause that, at least, is bullshit.

SHENZEN BABY YEAH

there you go. see, idk man... i doubt they do much custom work to an already finished product you know what i mean... there is no way the light they sell are made in the us. they probably perfom a couple low intensity assembly moves, and then advertise as made in the us, when you crack that baby open, its gonna be all shenzen. Growl, once again, is all adwords.


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## Crimble (Aug 26, 2009)

"its internal.

just cause its out of sight doesn't mean its in there... producing heat, running at probably between 60-70 % effeciency.."

but this is were your argument fails...
When an LED user says "hey, I don't need a ballast" He means, that, unlike the HID users who not only have to purchase and run a separate piece of equipment to power his lights, but he also has to worry that his lights won't fail, his ballast won't fail and the cicrut breaker wont trip. An LED user has to just plug in and hope the electricity is on and the unit works. 

" there is no way the light they sell are made in the us. they probably perfom a couple low intensity assembly moves, and then advertise as made in the us, when you crack that baby open, its gonna be all shenzen. Growl, once again, is all adwords."

I get that but that is like saying an american made car like a ford that uses wires imported from mexico is not an american made car.


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## Crimble (Aug 26, 2009)

"ask steph how they came to "300w led equals a 1000 watt hps""

...not from GROWL but from another LED site....

The Yield.....This is pretty much what it's all about right? Well the output of our 700W SuperPro Series is equivalent to 2400W of HID Lights.....( Now we're not saying that the 700W SuperPro Series emits more Lumens output than 2400W of HID's, but to state that the 700W Pro Series emits the same amount of absorbable light as 2400W of HID's, and* it is this ability to only emit key absorbable light that your plants are able to use that makes it possible to achieve the parity results with an HID at just a fraction of the wattage. * Lumens output is not a key factor in determining plant growth, it is the ability of the plants to absorb and tranform the light energy into photosynthesis and which wavelengths are to be used to achieve those key abosrption points. Lumens are a common measure of output that is used to measure the intensity of HID Lighting, but really has no direct bearing on determining plant growth. Remember that over 85% of the light emitted from an HID Light is wasited in the form of non-absorbable light waves as well as heat energy.


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## Treeth (Aug 26, 2009)

We have very different points of perspective crimble, and your arguments are fine. But they're only a reproduction of the popular discourse surrounding led lights. I'm wide awake and its morning so I shall deconstruct.

About the "ballasts" - you are correct, that an led consumer does not have to purchase his own power supply, primarily because allowing the user access to the wiring isnt a fun contingency to deal with. But leds do not simply use the power coming out of the wall. There are two different types of current, alternating, and direct, leds are direct... and power over lines is alternating.

In a hid set up, they make you buy the ballast. Why? cause they have a short lifetime. They make you buy bulbs... why? short lifetime. the user is responsible for replacing these items... Well, leds are rated to mantain (commonly) 70% of thier luminous flux over 50,000 hours. a very long time. The leds will pretty much last forever, but the power supplies... will not last as long. So, to sell a unit with an internal supply, is cheating the consumer, cause its not gonna last much longer than 5 years maybe, but once it dies the whole unit is dead, when the important component, the leds, are still fine and dandy. SO, like the hids, you should be willing to think about an led light as seperate components, not a sealed body with one explicite function running magically out of pins in the wall.

I can't argue for your consumer awareness. I'll bet, and i hesitate, but do you use apple products? I really would like to know...

-----

As for the other bit, well ok first wattage equivelency considering yield. NOWHERE NOT HERE NOT ANYWHERE HAS ANYONE EVER SHOWN ANY KIND OF EQUIVELENCY. not for what we do. ever. I havn't even seen a 1 gram per watt grow using leds, which is standard yeild for a 600 watt hps.

You are right about lumens being a useless measurement for the photosynthetically active spectrums, PAR. Lumens are for humans. PAR is for plants, unfortunately, lumens is the industry standard for "effeciency" in light sources and isn't likely to change, as led manufactures don't give a shit about one particualr market like that to have the engineers go run the tests and stuff.

---

When you talk about color... that is all advertising hype. you read that on product web pages. not on here. not real people talking, but someone trying to sell you something, and you beleive it. Do you use apple products?

85% of a hid is largely useless, but its still not, its just less effeciently used by the plant.

It is nm range that is important, but then why do hps grow so damn good?

because they are fucking intense. 20000 lumens is a lot of light. a little fucking sun. 

what matters is, on the biochemical level,

is a photon and the energy that it is being captured by a chloroplast. it does, and it doesnt have to give a fuck about wavelenght, the process is just more effecient in certain ranges. 

What is more important, is bombarding the plant with as much light as possible. getting as much reception of photons as possible. FLOWER, POWER.

again, 

they're trying to sell you lower watts, and claiming the color to be a substitute for power, heat and size, which is not the correct way to approach increasing yield.

you're going to be dissapointed operating under your current assumptions. you wanna put down 20watts per square foot, be my guest. That simply isn't enough PHOTOMETRIC FLUX, umols of photons, to produce heavy fruits. It is not enough energy. 

nobody can refute this go find other led grows _everyone_ realizes that they spent 400 dollars for only 90 watts of power and that they got ripped.

Compare your light in dollars per watts first. that is the only metric you can really trust as a consumer. everything else is variables that you know nothing about. 

i apologize for being so forcefull. fighting popular discourse is a passion of mine.


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 26, 2009)

jay510 said:


> hahaha back at you i got money to play with *hater* and i also have 2 1000w hps and 2 600w hps setup *hater* i seen your fuckups with L.E.D ur dont know what the fuck your doing with L.E.D grow get ur weight up then holla at me


 
whooo nelly. looks like you got a stick stuck somewhere. i never even said your results or plants where bad or anything. just pointed out the simple fact that your running 530 watts in there and still not doing anything better than hps. you dont got to come on here and lash back with talking shit on my grows. youve got 3 times the wattage i use and probably have had much more time/experience growing than i do. for some reason i think you missed the point im not a hater.


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## Stoneshield (Aug 26, 2009)

could ya use LED lights in the middle of the plant to stimulate middle/lower growth. in conjuction with either HPS or MH. prob sumthing along the lines of lights in a small ball, or perhaps a small strand.


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## Treeth (Aug 26, 2009)

certainly.

and stop hating little grower. 

I've though about strips and balls too, and really want to try it. You can put leds anywhere you can put aluminum fins,
on top, below, on the side or even inside the plant pretty much.

Here is one thing i've noticed, and i thinks its reasonable...
When growing with an HPS, you grow plants with huge fuckin' fan leaves. big mother fuckers... that, I think, is the plant trying to catch as much of the short red as it can that's coming off of the HPS.
What happens then with leds is... the plant , if you have enough watts and enough coverage, 
gets all the red it needs. So, _i think_ there is plenty of room to supplement red in a room with a hps. 

my first led light design was a light spider... eight "legs" of single file leds, that was supposed to fit over a plant like a helmet, and then draping down to the sides... 

but yeah having them underneath the canopy of a well groomed plant would be cool;
grow one or two plants that are absolutely bathed in led light, from every direction... thats a sweet closet grow.


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## Crimble (Aug 26, 2009)

Treeth I actually agree with you more than you think. I do agree that if the LED unit draws 600 watts of power, it is a 600 watt unit, NO WAY EQUAL TO A 2000 watt HPS, no way. I posted the last article to site how they come about thinking a 600 = 2000, but I do not agree. And I get the point that HPS, while maybe not having the EXACT wavelength the plant uses, in a way force feeds the wave length it does produce onto the plant. If money is not a problem, I would say you would have to buy 3 of the GROWL Mastiff models to equal that of a 1800 watt HPS garden. I don't agree on the ballasts, you are reaching on that one. 

Now, as far as Apple... How Dare You Sir? Steve gets $0 from me.


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## Treeth (Aug 26, 2009)

hahaha yeah good crimble.

I know dude, i'm thinking and operating outside the current marketplace. But out of what is offered, especially now that hidhut is down, i think Growl is perhaps the best US distributor for these things. So you're not wrong in wanting to critique their product lineup.

A ballast is a device which transforms power no? 
Do you understand the difference between AC and DC?


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## milkkart (Aug 27, 2009)

i'm thinking of doing a scrog grow with LEDs and CFLs, 4 plants in a growbox.

one of the big problems with leds seems to be the penetration to the lower levels of the plants, so they could work better with a scrog?


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## SmokeTwoJointz (Aug 27, 2009)

mindphuk said:


> Look into the tri-band lighting systems and ones that use the 5 watt Cree diodes. It's all about intensity and those .5w and 1w LEDs just don't pump out enough photons/sec. Remember to increase photosynthesis, increase the number of photons that fall on the leaves. A lot of low power LEDs is just spreading the area that the light will fall upon. To increase the intensity, you need to increase the power to the diodes.


In regards to your questions regarding the grow lights from www.eloofaimports.com - I actually met the dude as he's based out of LA, and purchased 8 units from him about 5 months ago. I see that he's selling them for $249, which isn't too bad, but he hooked up 8 for me for around $200, since I came and picked them up locally. I had a pair of Sunshine system previously, but I gotta say eLoofa's is working superb for me... The guy emphasized the 660nm, which I obviously get, but I jus felt dumb for having bought the Sunshines for over $350 jus a few months before... and for 630nm too..

I'm only using to grow clones.. Had 8 lights in one section of my bedroom, but pretty much ended up purchasing 8 more to cover up the entire room. Went with the dual, and added flouresent lights instead of going with the tri-band... Personally, I like to just add my own whites instead of sacrificing the Red LED's.

Be sure to know who you getting it from... I was hesitant about buying these online, cuz you see some cheap ones on eBay... However, I've seen a few of them inside and out, and their quality's no good... People are selling sellin 45W and claiming 90 on them.. 

Anyways, just wanted to let you know, bought some of them eLoofa grow lights, and they workin great for me


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## JAPPY (Aug 30, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh9oGroryoc

Check this link out !! LED vs HPS

Things that make you go hmmm ~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peace


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## Nocturn3 (Aug 30, 2009)

JAPPY said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh9oGroryoc
> 
> Check this link out !! LED vs HPS
> 
> ...


Looks good. When they can grow decent weed with that kind of efficiency, they might be worth the money.


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## artthug (Aug 30, 2009)

For security reasons I do not post much, but 20 Years and 50k on equipment plus degrees in physics as well as horticulture. 

I just want to smack people tell they get it sometimes. Any remember the Edge forums?

Good source of information with honest experienced growers. So far I have trolled this forum out of boredom and I have yet reviewed one comment from anyone that has not had a bunch of misinformation. 

On lights In laymans term its a matter of coverage not just lumen output.

So as I see it many of you are playing a game of telephone regurgitating somebody elses supposed experience. This is where I challenge you all to do as I have over the years and take the Pepsi challenge. Try it yourself. You may find you have wasted a lot of time and money on gear that is more then you need or complete garbage.

My opinion 

L.E.D.s, wait ten years Unless you have the cheddar to drop on some Chinese street lights.

Hps. Great, but not as much as you think. If you use to much youre going to weaken your harvest. The truth of the matter is Hps matches a key spectrum that is vital but only needs to be supplemented.

 M.H. Healthiest for the plant and can be use alone throughout a grow aslong as you supplement warm spectrums.

C.F.L.s Well these are exiting time indeed with the right Bulbs *and coverage* 
You will have greater results then both mh and hps systems. The *Key is coverage* and though forget the idea of output wattage and consider only the running wattage as in 10 105watts for every 1000watt hid.

Pepsi challenge people. Youre going to flame me because thats your nature, But know this I am retired and quite well to do. You could be too if you just get over the myth


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## mindphuk (Aug 30, 2009)

artthug said:


> For security reasons I do not post much, but 20 Years and 50k on equipment plus degrees in physics as well as horticulture.


Great! What area of physics?


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## JAPPY (Aug 30, 2009)

Personnal so far I have been happy with my LED  My plants look healthly and bushy !! In flower stage right now with some nice hairs beginning to appear all over  I have been doing lots of research on LED and plan on testing vs HPS before Christmas. Although many may find it a waste of time I plan on getting an additional 3 UFO LED Gen 6th for a total of 4 vs the 400W HPS. I have toyed with the idea for some time now and believe I would not be unhappy with the results. 

Hope I didn't put a target on my back now .. lol

Peace everyone


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## artthug (Aug 30, 2009)

Cosmology to be exact, Yeah Im an old study but no stranger to the parameters of light waves nor the chloroplasts during photosynthesis


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## mindphuk (Aug 30, 2009)

artthug said:


> Cosmology to be exact, Yeah Im an old study but no stranger to the parameters of light waves nor the chloroplasts during photosynthesis


Very cool, my favorite subject. I'm very interested in the phase shift and broken symmetries and all. I'm really excited about the LHC and possibility of detecting the Higgs Field.


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## Treeth (Aug 31, 2009)

*artthug*

makes a good point about coverage...

The reason it isn't mentioned much is... Coverage isn't a part of the advertising, disinformation discourse surrounding the available led lights, most notably the ufo.

Because, of course, the light is only good for one square foot, maybe a foot and a half... beyond that is pushing it. If people realized this,

they would see that they are paying 250-400 per foot for lighting, which is ridiculous. So it is ignored. 

hooray for the bosons!


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## artthug (Aug 31, 2009)

If people must use led's. Something to try would be led ropes lights. You wouldn't be able to match the direct 90watt output of a Ufo system. But you could get them in the 630 nm reds which would match the spectrum. You could buy an 18' 8 watt rope for about 25 bucks and literally string it though you plants (like a x-mas tree). The led's are spaced from 1" to 2&#8221; apart and should be cool to the touch. 

Rope light
http://www.orangetreetrade.com/shop/2-wire-120v-1/2%22d/18ft-rope-light-p-474.html

I&#8217;m curious enough to try them. I have two identical tomato clones that I&#8217;m about two flower indoors I will order one and try it as a supplemental light just for shits and giggles. I really doubt it will make much difference. Though, I have way to much free time...


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## Treeth (Aug 31, 2009)

coverage, but not enough power. 

you would need to get like ten of them to make a difference.


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## fallinghigh (Aug 31, 2009)

led is junk. I ran about 13 flood led over 200 watts of led, on 4 plants in a small 1 foot by 2 foot dwc areo that was sitting inside a 15 gallon res bubble they vegged about 7 inches in 4 weeks, when I flipped the they didnt even shoot up but 1 -2 inches, Scrapped it then. Now the foliage was light green and smell was good, soft like velvet. That being said the led could be used as a supplemental, only for spectrum only. Or a project to wast 250$ on lighting that you will prob never use unless you are having a fry party. I used more than twice the led wattage of a ufo or wetf its called, the ufo is supposed to be like a 600 watt metal H or hps. So by there math I was well over 1000 watt equivalent. I got crap, my buddy kept sending me pics of his cfl, and I was getting pissed the fuck off lol, his cheep as cfl lights spanking my cutting edge led, and he was using less watts of cfl then I was of led. He had 2 feet in 2 weeks I had 2 inches (little exaggeration but not much) he was running maby 150-175 tottal cfl I was pushing 220-250 led. 

DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY IT IS A FUCKING JOKE I post a few pics when I dig them up they are on a old hdd so dont hold your breath...I will have them posted before your led plants grow an inch.. or sometime this month


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## JAPPY (Aug 31, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> led is junk. I ran about 13 flood led over 200 watts of led, on 4 plants in a small 1 foot by 2 foot dwc areo that was sitting inside a 15 gallon res bubble they vegged about 7 inches in 4 weeks, when I flipped the they didnt even shoot up but 1 -2 inches, Scrapped it then. Now the foliage was light green and smell was good, soft like velvet. That being said the led could be used as a supplemental, only for spectrum only. Or a project to wast 250$ on lighting that you will prob never use unless you are having a fry party. I used more than twice the led wattage of a ufo or wetf its called, the ufo is supposed to be like a 600 watt metal H or hps. So by there math I was well over 1000 watt equivalent. I got crap, my buddy kept sending me pics of his cfl, and I was getting pissed the fuck off lol, his cheep as cfl lights spanking my cutting edge led, and he was using less watts of cfl then I was of led. He had 2 feet in 2 weeks I had 2 inches (little exaggeration but not much) he was running maby 150-175 tottal cfl I was pushing 220-250 led.
> 
> DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY IT IS A FUCKING JOKE I post a few pics when I dig them up they are on a old hdd so dont hold your breath...I will have them posted before your led plants grow an inch.. or sometime this month


lmao Using a 90watt UFO with a 630 red spectrum !! Found the 660 not as good as the 630 and the more i research the more I believe the 6th Gen UFO appear to be better then the older models !! Look at my grow journal and you tell me !! I would think the LED floods would be shit as well !!


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## fallinghigh (Aug 31, 2009)

JAPPY said:


> lmao Using a 90watt UFO with a 630 red spectrum !! Found the 660 not as good as the 630 and the more i research the more I believe the 6th Gen UFO appear to be better then the older models !! Look at my grow journal and you tell me !! I would think the LED floods would be shit as well !!


ya lmao you are running cfls with the led so you can not even say you are growing led. I grew with only led. And you keep adding cfls the cfls are growing the plants. Look grow one plant under that 90 watt led and one under a 25 watt cfl and i bet dollars to donuts the 5 dollar light out preforms the 200 dollar light,and a 65 watt cfl will spank its ass. lmao again at the claims that this unit is equal to 600 watt HID then why are you adding 12 watt lights to your setup to make the plants grow... btw not dissing you... but... oh ya I am...my led plants looked healthier than yours..and I knew It was shit. Spectrum wasn't the prob, the prob is leds,think hps as the sun and led as the stars,there are a million stars out at night and only one sun. You could have a million leds and never get the growth of one hps or mh. period point blank..400watts is not that much, and by the looks of you adding cfl and heaters you are pulling as you said 380 watts getting 1/100th of the production of one hid. Its not bad to be an innovator. It seemed cool. I tried it. But don't give out false reporting like you are pulling 1/4 or 1/2 lb grows with this 90 watt 200+ dollar paper weight


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## JAPPY (Aug 31, 2009)

Very good. Yes I needed to add CFL's due to the lack of heat and I'm sure having them on the sides only help my nods explode. I admit that but now the LED reachs all of those now  Look .... not saying LED is better then HPS cause it isn't but I have the extra money and time to test and find out. The LEDS are great and will always be used one way or another. Also who is giving false reporting here ? 1/4 or 1/2 pound .... lmao that wasn't me who said that so lets try to get it right !!

Anyway stay tuned for HPS vs LED as the saga continues. 

Peace ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## AquafinaOrbit (Aug 31, 2009)

Anyone ever done a PC grow using LEDs? Seems you could line the entire wall/roof with an couple panels.


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## beeker74 (Aug 31, 2009)

Treeth said:


> *artthug*
> 
> makes a good point about coverage...
> 
> ...


 Treeth is correct-but... some folks just cant run an hps(for whatever reason) I get this.Thats why I spent a year messin with these lights.I'm done now, satified with my acquired knowledge on the most popular led unit-the ufo.I'm not talking about the newer high wattage units-with the big-boy diodes.From what I gather the ufo seems to be the most accessible, for cost reasons.Bottom line-a 90w ufo, as Treeth stated will EFFECTIVELY cover about 1-maybe with mylar-2 sq feet.I know this from experience.It will not perform like a 400w hps-it will perform like a 90w ufo...period.To get a decent yield in a 2x2 homebox-I used about 270w of led-with multi-angled light sources.Thats alot of bank people.And as far as not providing ventilation-not the best game plan.Ventilation can be achieved a variety of ways, it just requires a little thought and planning.Trust me guys-this is no magic bullet.It's just another growlight, and a ridiculously over-priced one at that.But thats just coming from a year of screwing with these lights- coupled with about 10 years growing experience.


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## beeker74 (Aug 31, 2009)

artthug said:


> If people must use led's. Something to try would be led ropes lights. You wouldn't be able to match the direct 90watt output of a Ufo system. But you could get them in the 630 nm reds which would match the spectrum. You could buy an 18' 8 watt rope for about 25 bucks and literally string it though you plants (like a x-mas tree). The led's are spaced from 1" to 2 apart and should be cool to the touch.
> 
> Rope light
> http://www.orangetreetrade.com/shop/2-wire-120v-1/2"d/18ft-rope-light-p-474.html
> ...


 dont waste your money-this dosent work-tried it.You need at least 1w diodes-and these need to be attached to proper heat-sinks.I have 50' of led rope if anyones interested in trying this for themselves.


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## beeker74 (Aug 31, 2009)

bottom line-take control of your plants environment, ventilation is key-without it, you're just wasting your time.And if an ounce or 2 each grow cycle is going to work for you, and you've got money to burn-go for it.But if you're after serious production, or at least enough to keep you personally supplied-get an hps.This whole led thing is a scam.


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## fallinghigh (Aug 31, 2009)

JAPPY said:


> Very good. Yes I needed to add CFL's due to the lack of heat and I'm sure having them on the sides only help my nods explode. I admit that but now the LED reachs all of those now  Look .... not saying LED is better then HPS cause it isn't but I have the extra money and time to test and find out. The LEDS are great and will always be used one way or another. Also who is giving false reporting here ? 1/4 or 1/2 pound .... lmao that wasn't me who said that so lets try to get it right !!
> 
> Anyway stay tuned for HPS vs LED as the saga continues.
> 
> Peace ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



ok No fault in experimenting..I did the same ..1/4 or one 1/2 is what you can pull from a 400-600 watt hps is the context I meant...I dare you to pull a zip off that 90 watt by itself..you need a heater add a heater...
I say one 24 watt cfl will grow a plant faster and healthier than the 90 by itself. hps vs led lmao no saga no story no nothing stars and the sun bro. I hypothesis that they are not even a good choice for supplemental.
Testing with hps plus led, and hps with the same wattage of cfl, would be a better test to see what is the best for supplemental. But if you drop the cfl in the canopy vertically or in the corners vertical, I don't even see how led in any shape or form can compete as a supplemental option. Cfl outperform prob 10 to 1 and cost less. So... what you have there is a rave light, a cool fish aquarium light. good luck with your future experiments I know I wont stop trying new things. They say in Japan they have a 10 watt led that pumps out 150,000 lumen's, don't quote me on that number, the point is without experiment there is no progress, but don't digg on somebody that did the same shit you are trying to do first, and found out it sucked first.


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## beeker74 (Aug 31, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> ok No fault in experimenting..I did the same ..1/4 or one 1/2 is what you can pull from a 400-600 watt hps is the context I meant...I dare you to pull a zip off that 90 watt by itself..you need a heater add a heater...
> I say one 24 watt cfl will grow a plant faster and healthier than the 90 by itself. hps vs led lmao no saga no story no nothing stars and the sun bro. I hypothesis that they are not even a good choice for supplemental.
> Testing with hps plus led, and hps with the same wattage of cfl, would be a better test to see what is the best for supplemental. But if you drop the cfl in the canopy vertically or in the corners vertical, I don't even see how led in any shape or form can compete as a supplemental option. Cfl outperform prob 10 to 1 and cost less. So... what you have there is a rave light, a cool fish aquarium light. good luck with your future experiments I know I wont stop trying new things. They say in Japan they have a 10 watt led that pumps out 150,000 lumen's, don't quote me on that number, the point is without experiment there is no progress, but don't digg on somebody that did the same shit you are trying to do first, and found out it sucked first.


 Everybody figures it out eventually-especially when their looking to score 2 weeks later.It's just not worth your time.


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## fallinghigh (Aug 31, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> bottom line-take control of your plants environment, ventilation is key-without it, you're just wasting your time.And if an ounce or 2 each grow cycle is going to work for you, and you've got money to burn-go for it.But if you're after serious production, or at least enough to keep you personally supplied-get an hps.This whole led thing is a scam.


OMG GET CFL FUCK LED the only thing that would be any cool is a solar powered led grow room. other than that whats the point. look at them plants and then see what people on this sight have done with 300 watts cfl.........go big...or go cfl...or go home


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## beeker74 (Aug 31, 2009)

and why would anyone pay for a "supplemental" light source that costs 5x as much as the main light source?Just dont add up...at all


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## beeker74 (Aug 31, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> OMG GET CFL FUCK LED the only thing that would be any cool is a solar powered led grow room. other than that whats the point. look at them plants and then see what people on this sight have done with 300 watts cfl.........go big...or go cfl...or go home


 that was my point- to show that these things just dont cut it.Heres my current 400w hps grow


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## beeker74 (Aug 31, 2009)

but maybe you missed my point


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## fallinghigh (Aug 31, 2009)

for quality, led dont pull much, but you make a good point. especially when cheaper like 40 times cheaper bulbs do a better job as far as coverage goes. So it would be spectral supplemental for quality purposes. my led plants did smell stong, and you could add specific spectral light . But that is the only thing worth testing. Since I have them I might try it out down the line. But I tested It out and AS A GROWING OPTION IT GETS A F-


beeker74 said:


> and why would anyone pay for a "supplemental" light source that costs 5x as much as the main light source?Just dont add up...at all


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## beeker74 (Aug 31, 2009)

and oh yeah-fuck cfl's- like you said-go big, or go home.And get some fuckin pics of your own to post.Wanna compare cocks little man?


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## fallinghigh (Aug 31, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> that was my point- to show that these things just dont cut it.Heres my current 400w hps grow


lol ok my bad. I must have misread something..ty for posting pics. well hopefully this is adequate to detour people away from wasting money, and getting there hopes up thinking a 90 watt light that is = to 600 watt hps..


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## artthug (Aug 31, 2009)

beeker74 said:


> dont waste your money-this dosent work-tried it.You need at least 1w diodes-and these need to be attached to proper heat-sinks.I have 50' of led rope if anyones interested in trying this for themselves.


 

Yeah, that is what I assumed I just try everything I mention. That way I am not spreading misinformation... Cheers


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## artthug (Aug 31, 2009)

You guys are missing the point though... *Coverage!* Here is and analogy maybe you will all understand.

You&#8217;re freezing to death and you a have a super warm woolen blanket but&#8230; It&#8217;s only 1&#8221; by 1&#8221; that may cover your feet but it&#8217;s not going to save your life. But then you find a full sized fleece blanket, while you may still have a chill you still have sufficient warm and will be just fine.


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## JAPPY (Aug 31, 2009)

artthug said:


> You guys are missing the point though... *Coverage!* Here is and analogy maybe you will all understand.
> 
> You&#8217;re freezing to death and you a have a super warm woolen blanket but&#8230; It&#8217;s only 1&#8221; by 1&#8221; that may cover your feet but it&#8217;s not going to save your life. But then you find a full sized fleece blanket, while you may still have a chill you still have sufficient warm and will be just fine.


I understand the coverage just fine. I do now think my efforts with the single LED isn't what I want. I do believe if I added another 3 for a total of 4 in a 4 x 4 tent vs 400W HPS it could prove rather interesting. Both would run the same watts and I think the coverage may prove to be better. The only thing I would have to control with the LED would be the heat. Acouple of CFL's could help with that to bring it to 400W in total for each tent. I'm going to move forward with that idea and order what I need. Call me what you want .. lmao

For the moment I am going to add my 400W HPS tonight to the tent as the added light will only help the cause and with in a few days I will be adding some more Skunk and BB  and I know the UFO will not have the coverage for all of them 

Peace ~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## fallinghigh (Aug 31, 2009)

JAPPY said:


> I understand the coverage just fine. I do now think my efforts with the single LED isn't what I want. I do believe if I added another 3 for a total of 4 in a 4 x 4 tent vs 400W HPS it could prove rather interesting. Both would run the same watts and I think the coverage may prove to be better. The only thing I would have to control with the LED would be the heat. Acouple of CFL's could help with that to bring it to 400W in total for each tent. I'm going to move forward with that idea and order what I need. Call me what you want .. lmao
> 
> For the moment I am going to add my 400W HPS tonight to the tent as the added light will only help the cause and with in a few days I will be adding some more Skunk and BB  and I know the UFO will not have the coverage for all of them
> 
> Peace ~~~~~~~~~~~~


OK....YOU ARE A JOKE..led experiment expert that adds cfl and hps why cause led failed. Its a hard hard pill to swallow but I swallowed it, and I didn't choke. 

Try growing cfg vertically if you want a low watt experiment. I bet you couldn't yield 2 ounces of medicine with four of them LED fuckers. If one failed why buy more?

look at the vertical mh in my pic you going to veg 27 plants with 4 leds lol. LED cannot compete, rating 0, no stars, don't buy more, sell the one you got on ebay 

I know I am you up but please, dont act like a success story when you failed.


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## JAPPY (Aug 31, 2009)

Dude I know I would be flamed but I wouldn't say it failed !! Actually this is my first attempt at a grow so no pro here !! Never claimed I was !! But I'm learning and researching everyday. I do believe the need for more coverage DUE to the fact I will be adding more plants HINCE the reason for more coverage. If I had the 3 UFO available to me right this moment I would simply add them but I don't. No need to flame here dude but I do think it has been successful so far. 

Now flame all you want


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## artthug (Aug 31, 2009)

JAPPY said:


> Dude I know I would be flamed but I wouldn't say it failed !! Actually this is my first attempt at a grow so no pro here !! Never claimed I was !! But I'm learning and researching everyday. I do believe the need for more coverage DUE to the fact I will be adding more plants HINCE the reason for more coverage. If I had the 3 UFO available to me right this moment I would simply add them but I don't. No need to flame here dude but I do think it has been successful so far.
> 
> Now flame all you want


 This is at all led users... I say dare to be different!
I never said it didnt work there are just more efficient methods.

Though I am quite experienced with leds and have had many successful harvests with them. I hate to talk about my work but, I recently consulted on large containers designed for a sea fairing. The point was to export a seasonal flower from Mexico to Europe using leds. After many trials we learned the three keys to success were

A warm white spectrum (70% better results), 

A slightly higher nitrate formula with slightly lower potassium levels (I know what your think but the research proved it on 30+ species of flowering plants) 

Also a slightly higher ph. (6.8ish)


Though we did use light units that were 168watts per meter and about 600.00 a peace. That is why I say wait ten years (so the market can catch up).


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## Treeth (Sep 1, 2009)

thats cool artthug,

what your background?

- I spent some time on international cannagraphic forums yesterday, on the led lab 2009 thread, and found it interesting that so many users has at least a bs in physics... There are communities with way higher education levels than this one,

but i still like it here better... 

what kind of leds were used, i mean, who made the diode package? cree luxeon seoul osram


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## repvip (Sep 1, 2009)

Treeth said:


> thats cool artthug,
> 
> what your background?
> 
> ...


Treeth! Buddy  

What's new in the world of LEDs?
This *is* the man to talk to about LEDs!

BTW, I think a lack of IR actually shortens harvest time, which isn't necessarily good, but based on experience this has proven true for me. It's not dramatic, but defintely noticeable, especially with the different times I experimented with. Usually around a week shorter for the strain I used to grow. I never did try IR or indeed much else other than the 350w 3rd gen panel.

But they are getting better all the time, right? LED grow lights, that is. I love these things. There is absolutely no stretching with the LEDs I used, and they were able to be placed higher above the plants than you would expect (~2 ft).

I haven't been on forums for awhile and don't plan too--but I suspect more people that have used the expensive units (i.e. >$1000 or equivalent home-made) have results that would blow your mind. They just don't share... the site where I got my LED fixture has user comments that can be made about the light (only customers with an order # can leave a comment) and I got to tell you they are 100% positive, and the site is usually out of stock, indicating great demand! 

Sorry to ramble--good luck with it all! It's definitely in the here and now.


----------



## Treeth (Sep 2, 2009)

reppy!

what the fuck man. what the fuck. I definitely wanna hear the story bro. 

(I'm harvesting next week, my one good plant, under 400w leds, and taking up 2 square feet, is going to yield over a gram per watt!)

Really about the IR. This dude, knna, over on international cannagraphic, has done and has a spanish speaking resource group of led growers, and has posted some of his findings in the led lab thread...

I can't believe a lack of IR shortens flowering time. This is huge. Everyone who knows little talk up the 660 nm... I don't believe it. I'm turning my IR off today. My plants want to run way too long. 

Also, more amber/yellow shortens the flowering time as well. fuck. we might be getting somewhere, and now that prices are dropping...

This is the year of led repvip you called it.


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## superjoint (Sep 5, 2009)

I use a led ufo with 600 watt hps.I run the led for 12 hours,and the hps for 8 in the same time period, to save some money ,my plants are sugar coated ,even the fan leaves .Led is a geat supplemental light.I also use them for my mother plants with two 23 watt 6500k cfl,they grow like crazy,both in dwc.I also run two 23w cfl 2700k in flowering room as well.Think supplemental light,save some $$ .Thats what got my attention to led,the trichome production is supposed to better,according to High Times tests.I have grown this strain before,and without the led they were not as sugar coated looking,but great buds nonetheless.Also my mother plants leaves will get you high.I use 2 -50 watt tri band panels for my mothers with the cfl's.


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## fallinghigh (Sep 6, 2009)

artthug said:


> This is at all led users... I say dare to be different!
> I never said it didn&#8217;t work there are just more efficient methods.
> 
> Though I am quite experienced with led&#8217;s and have had many successful harvests with them. I hate to talk about my work but, I recently consulted on large containers designed for a sea fairing. The point was to export a seasonal flower from Mexico to Europe using led&#8217;s. After many trials we learned the three keys to success were&#8230;
> ...


kool shit, so does white work better than red and blue dedicated. I did see how the intensity of the light output was rated higher for white compared to red. I also noticed my blue seemed to outshine the red in intensity when the red had double the leds.



superjoint said:


> I use a led ufo with 600 watt hps.I run the led for 12 hours,and the hps for 8 in the same time period, to save some money ,my plants are sugar coated ,even the fan leaves .Led is a geat supplemental light.I also use them for my mother plants with two 23 watt 6500k cfl,they grow like crazy,both in dwc.I also run two 23w cfl 2700k in flowering room as well.Think supplemental light,save some $$ .Thats what got my attention to led,the trichome production is supposed to better,according to High Times tests.I have grown this strain before,and without the led they were not as sugar coated looking,but great buds nonetheless.Also my mother plants leaves will get you high.I use 2 -50 watt tri band panels for my mothers with the cfl's.


at first I was like wtf 12 and 8, seemed so strange. Then I thought maybe 4 hours before 4 hours after(like sunrise, sunset,kool idea).4,12,4 hmm you could prob go 4,10,4 or 3,12,3 or 4,8,4 if saving money is what you are looking for. 4,8,4 with leds staying on and cfls turning on for the 8, so cfls run 8hrs leds 16 hrs. Anyways I like your ideas of implementation. are you going to flower at say 2,8,2. I would definitely like yo see results of such experiments.

edit: ok so you are flowering at 12 hr but the 600 runs for 8 I would like to see results


----------



## aeroponicsROOKIE (Sep 7, 2009)

what type of leds do u have and use


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## superjoint (Sep 9, 2009)

I am flowering currently,so I am on a 12hr cycle.I run the led and cfl from 10p - 10a,I also run the hps in two 4 hour cycles during that time frame.I will try to get some pics of finished product.I am using one tri band spectrum ufo which has more red leds than blue,2 2700k cfl which run for the whole 12 hrs.I run the hps from 11p- 3a,then again at 5a-9a.Like I said the main reason I wanted led was for trichome production and to savev on elec bill.So far my buds are lookin good,more trichomes than the last grow using a 400 watt hps.Also it seems this grow is going faster too.I am growin the same strain for the 2nd time.My fan leaves are coated top and bottom with trichomes,didnt have that happen last time,but I am using stronger flowering nutes this time around too.


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## Treeth (Sep 10, 2009)

fallinghigh,

i just read through this thread again and you're an ass. 

You really have exhausted all you have to say; I do hope you stop pestering this thread with your noise.


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## fallinghigh (Sep 10, 2009)

Treeth said:


> fallinghigh,
> 
> i just read through this thread again and you're an ass.
> 
> You really have exhausted all you have to say; I do hope you stop pestering this thread with your noise.


lol kma go spend your life savings on leds, go grow an 8th, then open your trap....once again if you are looking to buy a 90 watt led for 200 bucks, thinking it is as good as a 600 watt hid, you would be better off getting a 600 watt or even 400 watt hps for the money. Neither light will go crazy on a light bill, especially if only ran 12 hours a day. The raised amount of final product will more than triple the value of the few extra dollars spent on electricity. 
THAT IS WHAT THE FUCKING PEOPLE WANT, THE COLD, HARD, FUCKING TRUTH...when doing research into new products


----------



## Crimble (Sep 13, 2009)

...in case anyone is intrested to know, I just checked their website and Growl just changed the product line from a tri-band to a 5-band (2 reds, orange, blue, white) flower light option, the price is the same but I guess they are also reading what KMMA has to say on the Cannagraphic LED thread


----------



## ledgrowing (Sep 19, 2009)

led is the wave of the future i only use them i dont sell them but if you do your research u will c used right nothing beats them


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## ledgrowing (Sep 19, 2009)

led is the bomb i have used 2 90watt ufo and a 250hps for nine months now and they are as good as a 600watt hps its not as bright just more efficent at what id does the spectrum on a good ufo in red is 630 to 660nm with added blue for veg by sayit is as good as a 600hps /mh no its not as bright but the light usage is 95% as aspose to say 25% from hid no wasted light although i add a 250 and a 70 watt hps for flower as the led dont penetrate the plant as deep below the canopy as i like only around 3 feet or so i grow 6fters plus usually but for scrog there the best thing i have found and thats each ufo is as good as a 600 watter not combined


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## Crimble (Sep 20, 2009)

So this is my L.E.D. Veg. in a 1.5' x 1.5' closet:

Hash Plant (from clone)
1 qt. bucket
1 - 90wt - LED All Blue - 18hrs - From Growl Led 
1 - 26wt - CFL 5000k - 6hrs
1 - 26wt - CFL 6500k - 6hrs
Temp = NEVER ABOVE 75 (w/ heat running in house)
Food = Age Old Grow(every other feeding)

Started: 04 - Sept - 2009 






This pic is from day 13






This pic is from day 16


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## whitesands (Sep 22, 2009)

Hey guys growing in the caribbean with short day light cycle.. 
very guerilla style stuck on a caribbean island very humid very buggy
and a lot of power outages
electricity is expensive about 36 cent a kilowat hr..
4 led glow panels run on a sine inverter (for back up power) 18 hrs a day in
c plus cfls.
Using Led's for cloning n basic veggieng then to a glass house..
basically led's saved my grow room's life bills were killing me 
with hps and even flouro's ran my temps up hight ventilation need cooling which meant airconditioning =more power consumption..
so led's for me is now, not the future...


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## Crimble (Sep 25, 2009)

This is Day 20 (after planting from small, small, hardly rooted clones) 20 Days so far...


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## Crimble (Sep 28, 2009)

This is Day 24:
Everything is going very smooth, the plants look super healthy and are growing at the same pace (if not better from lack of heat) than and HID MH.


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## brainwarp (Sep 28, 2009)

Thanks for this thread, as I am on the fence on getting hps or higher wattage led's

Picked up some cheap LED's to augment my floro's. Got 2 red/blue 12X12 panels. However, they are only 13.8 w / per panel. I don't know how much they are helping, but I suspect they are not powerful enough. 

There is one thing I know for sure. the HID's and HPS's give off heat. That heat means energy wasted. Unless that heat is needed for a cool room, it's wasted $. But that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't the best light for the job.

If the LED's can provide the right spectrum of light, I think they are on to something. My guess is they don't have that dialed in yet. There is a huge market of pot growers that will provide the incentive for led mfr's to get it right.


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## brainwarp (Sep 28, 2009)

Crimble: Could you check your math/measurements. 1.5' x 1.5' ? Really? LOL.


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## brainwarp (Sep 28, 2009)

Crimble: Also, I think you need red for flowering


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## Crimble (Sep 28, 2009)

Ha I know "1.5" when I noticed it, i could not edit it 

I am in Veg, not flower yet, only day 26 from rooted clone. 

For Flower we are using a 300WHT "Pitbull" 5 Spectrum (2 (different)reds, amber, blue, white) All Flower model from Growl L.E.D.

Brainwarp, the issue with L.E.D.'s, to me, at the moment, is that so many different brands are out they seem to cloud what people "think" L.E.D.'s can do. I have been dealing with Growl, and I really like the customer service, I like the direction and the way this company thinks. For me, so far, everything has been working out better then I expected.


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## Crimble (Oct 3, 2009)

Oct 2 - Time to flip over to Flower 12/12

The plants are going strong and time to go to flower this week! 

Very strong smell, healthy, vibrant, no leaf defects/discoloration what-so-ever, all deep color green, no bugs!

Best of all: With L.E.D's I haven't used more than 200WHT total this entire veg cycle (fans and CFL included), never went above 70 degrees EVER, I even turned the heat WAY up in the house to see what would happen and the room stayed cool as ever! L.E.D.'s ROCK (for VEG so far) if you use them properly, ie... Good reflection, Not too many plants (L.E.D.'s cover small areas you WON'T grow 6 pounds with 90WHTS), attention to your plants is key: give them love and pay attention to what they are doing and a GROWL LED light will work. I can't speak for ALL LED lights, thats like saying all computers work the same. This GROWL company makes a good product that WILL WORK FOR VEG (so far), that I can say for sure. 

Now lets see what this new 3000WHT - 5 band FLOWER ONLY - Pitbull model from Growl LED can do!


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## KenWood (Oct 7, 2009)

I am using a new LED it is a white light. I am keeping a Grow Journal "New LED"

Here are some specs:

Dimensions
48W x 6(D) x 4.5(H)
13 pounds
Light Output
Replaces 350W incandescent or 80W FL
Voltage
Universal 100v-277v 
*LED Watts*
*60, 85, or 120*
Power Factor
>.95
Color Temp.
5100K
LED Performance
Generation 2 LED SE x4
Energy Factor
.0.95 (at 208V)
Warranty
5 year
Mounting Bolts
Hooks or conduit (not included)
Finishes
Standard: Silver, Charcoal, Brown 
Custom Colors Available
Fixture Design
Commercial grade aluminum surround 
Fixture utilizes standard 3 wire connection
Input Voltage
100-277V AC
Operating Temp
-40..+60 deg C | -40..+140 deg F
Efficacy
70-110 Lumens/Watt
Scotopic Advantage
Factor x1.7


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## KenWood (Oct 7, 2009)

The leaves are yellow because I messed up on NUTES. It is CANNA and I never used it before we use GH at othe set-up.


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## KenWood (Oct 7, 2009)

This is from the company not me. They said that a light should have this done. I dont know all I know is that my light seems to be working the real test will be in flowering.

Photosynthetically Active Radiation 

PAR tests rate G2LED at 1200 at operational (task) distance. 
 (2000 PAR is a sunny day).
 1200 PAR at 3 inches, 
388 PAR at 6 inches. 
 The next best HPS1000 watt bulb has only a 384PAR.


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## shaak (Oct 8, 2009)

I use a 90 watt tri led and went with 2 flor from walmart. I also have no ventilation. The 2 flo grow lights from walmart keep a steady heat an i keep them on the side of the plants and the led is hung on top. I need to get a camera but im a little broke right now. My bubs are lighter than others but it smokes great and is a great body high "couch eats ya" I like the LEDs low heat and great results. If u just getting smoke for ur self its great i rotate 4 plants and normally have bub. No more 60 to 120 per bag


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## Crimble (Oct 11, 2009)

Day 2 in Flower,

using the 5 band 300wht Pitbull from GROWL.


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## chance4 (Oct 14, 2009)

k.. 300 watt led i do not sell them i don't know anybody that sells them other than where i got mine....but i can tell u this they kick ass if u know what ur doing...i am truely amazed...so if ur thinking about getting 1.. just get 1 from some1 u know that ur not getting screwed...dude these things work...awsome this is no shit i will b posting pics soon...300w blue red orange..and t8 6500 fluros...man unreal....all i know is if u dont like them dont get 1 but when finished with this 1 i will b buying 2 more...pics coming soon unreal..


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## ledgrowing (Oct 14, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> lol ok my bad. I must have misread something..ty for posting pics. well hopefully this is adequate to detour people away from wasting money, and getting there hopes up thinking a 90 watt light that is = to 600 watt hps..


 yo dude a 90w ufo is the same as 600whid it not as bright now but bright dont grow weed photosyntheses grown weed and led is only 3 percentwasted light as with hid only 20percent of light used


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## Crimble (Oct 15, 2009)

"yo dude a 90w ufo is the same as 600whid it not as bright now but bright dont grow weed photosyntheses grown weed and led is only 3 percentwasted light as with hid only 20percent of light used"

This is where I think the L.E.D. movement fails. 
NOTHING has been proven to qualify those statements from the LED sites. 
If your LED unit pulls 90whts or 300WHTS, THAN THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE RUNNING. 
Yes Yes, PAR and Lumen's argument aside, you are sucking out 90whts from the wall, you are using a 90wht grow light, and you will get good results. 
A true statement would be"I was using 2000whts HPS, but now I use 300whts of LED to get the same result", that is fine, but a 90LED is not EQUAL to a 600wht HPS. 
As an LED user I wish everyone would stop saying "My 90 wht LED is just like your 600wht HPS, it isn't, but you could say... "I grow more with my 90 than you can with your 600"
Just like as a cannabis user, I wish everyone would stop using the word Marijuana, I know it isn't gonna happen (its too rooted in society), but we all know that Marijuana has little relation to what Cannabis is.


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## MeisterYo (Oct 15, 2009)

Um I didn't really read the thread.
But heres my first run with LED, but Its like in week 1.5-2wk of flower.
So pictures speak more than words so here.
2x 90wTriband HTGsuppply and side lit 40w cool white and warm white florobulbs, to make sure the spectrum is present somewhere in case they need it.






Unknown bag seed Phototron pruned up to a week before flower.
then











now











constant 70* and 45-50%relative humidity ph6
GH nutes


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## Crimble (Oct 15, 2009)

Today is day 7 - I am amazed at the growth with this 5 band by GROWL.
So far... 
no heat issues, I might have to buy a $22 little heater from Wall-Mart, and I HATE Wall-Mart 
My temps are so even. The humidity levels are at about %60 and my plants love it so far. 
Oh yeah, I am not burning above 350 whts total! Its amazing!


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## fallinghigh (Oct 16, 2009)

omg this thread turned into a fucking led advertisment lol..... shut the fuck up......... a 600 watt hps would melt the led


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## MeisterYo (Oct 16, 2009)

Wow, thanks. We know what the 600 hps can do.

This thread was for those of us using LEDs. I am not about comparing the two lights for flowering. 

Just seeing what they can do. I highly recommend them for herb gardens because the recover plants fast, so you can trim up some herb and come back a week later and its a fuller plant. My Basils loves my 14watt homegrown LED.

I think phototron pruning technique is key to make any weight happen on a bush. We'll see in a couple months tho.


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## fallinghigh (Oct 16, 2009)

MeisterYo said:


> Wow, thanks. We know what the 600 hps can do.
> 
> This thread was for those of us using LEDs. I am not about comparing the two lights for flowering.
> 
> ...


ok fist this is not my first post on this thread if you read the whole fucking thing you would know that.. 2nd I think a little REAL FUCKING INFO needed to be droped in here again... but instead I wana clown the shit out of that last few pages of bull shit that should be deleted off this forum for fear it might miss lead a fellow medical patient, that is looking to grow pot and looking for lights.
heard this 90 watt peace of shit is as good as a 600 watt hps but it cost twice as much..thought they would save money in the long run.. but wanted to come to a trusted site to find out the truth.....Then you get stupid fucking post raving about there 1.5' and 6" grows that grew in 20 days what i have seen in 3..the funny thing is i am utilizing some led i wasted money on in a nft vegger
but it also has 160 watt of floro ........looks cool and the leds are neer to tuching the grow area....put a hid virtical
for the most utilization of watts


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## fallinghigh (Oct 16, 2009)

Treeth said:


> reppy!
> 
> what the fuck man. what the fuck. I definitely wanna hear the story bro.
> 
> ...


now look at this stupid fucking shit this guy is going to harvest a lb of pot in 2 square feet....in 2 feet ... a lb..in 2...2 feet lol 2*1 foot ...


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## fallinghigh (Oct 16, 2009)

Ok this is at 48 hr after transplanting from a dwc cloner.
Clones ran from cut till 2\2.5 weeks in a dwc bubble raft cloner pic of starting roots. no roots were out of the nets when transplanted at 48 hrs prior to pic


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## fallinghigh (Oct 16, 2009)

ledgrowing said:


> yo dude a 90w ufo is the same as 600whid it not as bright now but bright dont grow weed photosyntheses grown weed and led is only 3 percentwasted light as with hid only 20percent of light used


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## Dr Tweed (Oct 16, 2009)

hey guys have any of you heard of dutchgreengrowlights.co
they are prob the best led on the market the price is steep but prob worth it in the long run they have a genuine test report of there 300watt spectra unit ,has been posted in softsecrets magazine and forum by a reliable grower dokkie.
its not about energy saving its about bigger buds with led.
the spectrum of these lights is diff then all others it has 3-4 diff colours and add uv-light the results are amazing checkit out here is a link to the test and there site.


http://www.softsecrets.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=114&t=6509&p=93217&hilit=300watt+spectra+led+grow+light#p93217

http://www.dutchgreengrowlights.eu/dutchgreen/index-eng.php


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## MeisterYo (Oct 19, 2009)

Couple weeks in still, but still she is doing way better than expected.


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## pbawesome (Oct 19, 2009)

i have yet to start a grow... but i have gathered 10 3W red and blue leds making a total of 40 watts of light. I am planning on putting together a stealth pc grow box because i run a webserver at home and own 2 gaming computers so it will be an extra addition to the 3 computers i already have... but i am planning to put 8 leds on top and 2 on each side down near the side of the plant...

The leds i have are 65 lumens off ebay just search 3w led red and 3w led blue... im also ordering some redorange ones because they add to the correct spectrum of light the plants want... so when i get everything set up i will post...


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## Crimble (Oct 20, 2009)

This is day 14 - Very happy results.


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## Crimble (Oct 20, 2009)

This is day 14 - Very happy results.


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## MeisterYo (Oct 21, 2009)

Unknown bagseed i am saying around 2.3 weeks into flower











other two Indica in back Sativa in front


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 21, 2009)

Wish I'd seen this thread earlier, just noticed it. Anyhoo, Lots of negative fuckers out there that need to trade their cars in for a horse and buggy, you know as to be consistant with there stuck in the past ethos. I use LED and CFL combo expressly due to low heat and low energy use. I'm using the 90w UFO. If things were different, lets say if this shit was legal, then everyone knows that the fireball in the sky would be the best choice. I think they work, or at least they did for me.

old grow in an aerogarden, which also is said not to work...












and my current 2 wild bitches that if were not tied would be 6ft tall, pics don't lie.


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## Mindmelted (Oct 21, 2009)

The NO heat issue is bullshit.
I used a 90 watt ufo led grow light and the grow tent got into the 90's with no ventilation.


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## Mindmelted (Oct 21, 2009)

xesvuli420 said:


> ok guys, easy does it. this thread was designed to post information about LED's from *people who have used them*. However it again looks as if its turning into -my daddy can kick your daddy's ass- thread. Please the topic is LED USERS SHARE YOUR RESULTS, not is HPS better than LED.
> 
> We are really comparing apples to oranges, This thread is for those who *A. Can't use HPS (like me), B. Are running experiments with LEDs. or C. Have used LEDs in the past for whatever reason*. By no means are we trying to find out which one has the bigger ball sack. Lets stop fighting, and start posting more results, so that people who _have to, or just want to_ can come to a better buying decision on which LEDs just might not suck that bad.
> 
> Thanks everyone!


And why can't you use hps.And do not give me that i live in apartment bullshit.


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## MeisterYo (Oct 21, 2009)

In a house with a temp of 68* my room is a constant 70*.

Room is maybe 2x4x5' with a 80mm comp fan pulling air through a dryerhose. 

I mean I am not saying leds do not need ventilation but plants sure as shit do so it better be there anyway.

If your shit was in the 90s with no ventilation maybe your room holds heat to well or you need to vent the bitch.

I also have two dual tube floros in there and its still a constant 70*

so IDK what the issue with your heat was.


----------



## MeisterYo (Oct 21, 2009)

The only issue with people using HID in an apt. is they usually do it wrong and have lots of issues that are easily resolved.

Depending on how thing the walls and floors are there are different issues. I'd do perlite indoor personally if I lived in an apt. Airpumps can send vibrations a long way causing noise, not unlike a fish tank but what if someone asks to see the fish?

Led would be good for indoor to supplement a lower watt HPS and still get good results.


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## Mindmelted (Oct 21, 2009)

AJ........


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## MeisterYo (Oct 22, 2009)

nice and how many watts are you throwing at it?


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## bobkessel (Oct 23, 2009)

Growing lights are simple. First do you have the colors that the plant needs? Second how much can you deliver and at what cost? Light is the energy behind growing or Photosynthesis. Each plant is wired to take what is can. We can over power and under power from the veg to flower. If you have the colors in your light then you can grow. The Blue side is the veg and the red is focused on the flower and that is just where we start. To understand this we need to understand why HPS can work. First HPS does have all of the colors. Second HPS has the ability to deliver enough of these colors. The negative of HPS is it delivers very inefficiently. It makes shit loads of heat wasting it all, but that heat also has other added benefits. 

Veg is easy, you all use T5 florescent systems today because of that fact. Flower means we need power. You all use HPS because of that belief. Folks that is bull shit. Flower needs reds and it also needs stress. Define stress? Well if youre and HPS grower your already doing that by just turning off your HPS hot spots for 12 hours allowing the plant to be shocked by the drastic changes in temperature exactly like a cold night outside in the late fall. Plants need to be shaken into their end of life cycles by something as simple as this. A plant that has no stress has no reason to make a monster bud because it has no reason to worry about seeding for the next year. LEDs are too easy on these plants and folks you just need to slap those little green bitches into a state of bud and you too will get the results all of the other LED growers that get this are. 

Science is simple if only we allow ourselves to see the facts. In the defense of all the HPS folks dogging this wonderful new technology we can forgive you because all you were doing was protecting your bottom line. 

Be great to each other and do me a favor and say sorry to your follow LED growing brothers. 

Now get your asses out there and fond the most efficient LED light you can buy. Do us all a favor and buy USA made too. We have already given too much to the good people of China folks. 

Bob

Another thing quit dogging on the salesmen. These guys are just trying to make a living just like the rest of us. Let me direct you to the best saleman of all time Jesus Christ. I want everything this guy is, was and will always be selling. Good news he forgives us all no matter what and that is for free. 




xesvuli420 said:


> I am creating this forum for a place where REAL, SEASONED, LED users can come, and help people who are wanting to get the truth about LED's. *PLEASE, NO SALESMEN for LED company's* dishing out biased opinions, to sale a light. Please! Lets keep it fair, honest, and un-biased so people can decide if LED's are what they need individually, and if so, what type.
> 
> Lets be honest, there are a lot of opinions out there towards this type of lighting. Sadly most of the NEGATIVE opinions are from non-LED users, and most of the POSITIVE opinions are from LED Salesmen.
> 
> ...


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## Nocturn3 (Oct 24, 2009)

bobkessel said:


> Another thing quit dogging on the salesmen. These guys are just trying to make a living just like the rest of us. Let me direct you to the best saleman of all time Jesus Christ. I want everything this guy is, was and will always be selling. Good news he forgives us all no matter what and that is for free.


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## pastafarian81 (Oct 24, 2009)

xesvuli420 said:


> Oh, lol I forgot to tell you about me. I personally will be investing in some type of LED due to 0 ventilation for an HPS, once I make a decision on which on is not crap. I will be using it for havest on 4-6 plants in a 12"X33" section. The LED I like the most is here...
> http://eloofaimports.com/magento/index.php/ufo-grow-lights/90w-ufo-grow-light-triband.html?SID=26408364bca7e910b88dedee74e99bf3
> If you guys feel this LED is not crap, please let me know and I will be trying one out.
> here is a video of same LED...
> ...


 

htgsupply.com has a nicer triband for less $$..


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## Crimble (Oct 24, 2009)

Tri-band L.E.D.'s are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO September 2009, its all about the 5-band


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## 2much (Oct 24, 2009)

i am using 2 multi spectrum led panels, like you i was hopeful but they just dont seem to put out the lumins


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## Crimble (Oct 24, 2009)

...but 2much, when growing Cannabis, Lumins are for Humans, I have been educated about P.A.R. (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) and my experience with L.E.D.'s is that you can't hang your LED light as far away as you need to when using HID (due to heat burning issues). I have my LED maybe 10 inches from the top of my canopy, with reflection on the bottom, top and sides of my table. I am having really good results so far and all I can say is that for my 1st grow with LED (doing EVERYTHING I have read about how to maximize LED efficiency), my biggest observation is that the people who fail with L.E.D.'s, are applying this new technology in the same fashion as the old technology, that is wrong to me, its a brand new way to grow ( no heat, no burn, no high powered external ballasts producing MORE heat, ect...) My room has had to be "re-thought: because the LED's produce different/less environmental variables that need to be addressed. I would love to know from the people who make the statement that "LED's suck because they don't penetrate the lower parts of my plants" I would like to know; Did you just hang your new 90wht LED as high over your plants that you did your HID? If so, that would be your problem, hang them bitches low low low and don't think that buying a 90wht ANYTHING will do the job of a HID, it won't, but that IN NO WAY means LED'S can't grow as good or better than HID, the LED'S are being applied in the same manner as an HID and that has been the mistake I have been seeing.


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## fallinghigh (Oct 24, 2009)

LMAO YA THAT LOOKS GOOD BWAHAHAHAHHA....GUESS WHAT....THEY TOLD YOU IT WOULDN'T WORK ....AND....... IT DIDN'T ARE 90% OF THE PEOPLE USING LED RETARDED I mean come the flux on people 



SlickRickMcgee said:


> Wish I'd seen this thread earlier, just noticed it. Anyhoo, Lots of negative fuckers out there that need to trade their cars in for a horse and buggy, you know as to be consistant with there stuck in the past ethos. I use LED and CFL combo expressly due to low heat and low energy use. I'm using the 90w UFO. If things were different, lets say if this shit was legal, then everyone knows that the fireball in the sky would be the best choice. I think they work, or at least they did for me.
> 
> old grow in an aerogarden, which also is said not to work...
> 
> ...


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 24, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> LMAO YA THAT LOOKS GOOD BWAHAHAHAHHA....GUESS WHAT....THEY TOLD YOU IT WOULDN'T WORK ....AND....... IT DIDN'T ARE 90% OF THE PEOPLE USING LED RETARDED I mean come the flux on people


"BWAHAHAHAHHA" is that your funny way of typing an example of your deep hearty laugh sucker? Don't see any links to your genius grow in your signature. Post up punk. The jokes on your ass.
That last pic was my 1st grow ever as well it wasn't done yet. Post your shit up, or shut the fuck up! You got no proof of shit cause you've never used anything but grandpas technology.


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 26, 2009)

Damn, that's funny as hell. FallingHigh's gaping wide open vagina is leaking all over the place. Buy yourself some tampons girl, no pics, no links, no proof of ever growing 1 damn plant. Oh, I guess your best girlfriend has a huge award winning plant that you can maybe post some pics of.....but not even that. Ahh, whats the hold up, no bucks to buy even one light or some potting soil to start your infamous grow? How about keeping your horse shit opinions in your own little bitty head unit you got even 1 grow under your belt, or should I say...sash, that's what you girls put around your little waists right? 

Shit on my parade and I'll shit down your cock sucking throat. Comment back, please. I got more where that wisdom came from "starter kit" bitch!


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## 2much (Oct 26, 2009)

i didnt mean to say leds suck, all i know is that the plants under the leds, less than 5 inches are not growing at the excellerated rate as even the cfls. im all for leds because of the heat and power issues that are present with other lights, i still use the leds for cloning


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## fallinghigh (Oct 27, 2009)

PAGE 15 YOU FUCKING NASCAR REJECT. go fuck your mom or sister or fucking billy goat, snort a line of your trailer park meth,and leave the growing to the people with a fucking brain. 



SlickRickMcgee said:


> "BWAHAHAHAHHA" is that your funny way of typing an example of your deep hearty laugh sucker? Don't see any links to your genius grow in your signature. Post up punk. The jokes on your ass.
> That last pic was my 1st grow ever as well it wasn't done yet. Post your shit up, or shut the fuck up! You got no proof of shit cause you've never used anything but grandpas technology.


THAT IS SOME FUCKING UGLY GROWING POT I THOUGHT I WOULD NEVER SAY THAT. I mean do you think that looks good? 

Let me show you what a plant healthy plant looks like.
some Old School Master Kush , and Jade Monkey


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 27, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> Let me show you what a plant healthy plant looks like.
> some Old School Master Kush , and Jade Monkey









You really think those short shit plants look good? All of that cum guzzling has fucked your eye sight up. What's with the NASCAR references? I hate that shit more than your shitty grow. "trailer park" haha, I live iin a large metro area, you assume things, like you spout bullshit info. Your sister wants her pantyhose back.


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## digitalliquid (Oct 27, 2009)

as funny as this is this is how most led threads end up so could we try to keep this one on track im keeping up with it to learn a little and all im doing is lol'ing at yall fighting


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## crazyeyez (Oct 27, 2009)

If I was to build my own what leds should I look for...any special names for the reds and blues?


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## pastafarian81 (Oct 28, 2009)

crazyeyez said:


> If I was to build my own what leds should I look for...any special names for the reds and blues?


 

At min 1w leds, CREE seems to be a name i keep seeing while doing research. I would like to build my own using 3w leds. the common led count for UFOs seems to be 80-90% red and 10-20% blue. check out other LED grow lights and look to see what counts they are using. also if you go the DIY route make sure that the nm are the same spectrum.


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## digitalliquid (Oct 28, 2009)

<<<<<<<<<<<<<
_for good growing you need blue, red and deep red spectrum. for clorophile A you need 400-430nm of blue and 650-670 nm of red. for clorophile B you need 420-470 nm of blue and 620-650 nm of red.
peak absorbtions are at A: 425 and 660 nm, and at B: 450 and 630. 
the power of spectrum should be stronger in red spectrum (arround 85-90%), others arround 5% of each. i did some test grows, but i only used 470 and 630 spectrum and the plants looked just fine. if you give them all the spectrum (for A and B type), they will grow even better._
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

that came from --->

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=eo4&q=led+light+spectrum+growing+nm&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

its magic , ya know !


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## pastafarian81 (Oct 28, 2009)

digitalliquid said:


> <<<<<<<<<<<<<
> _for good growing you need blue, red and deep red spectrum. for clorophile A you need 400-430nm of blue and 650-670 nm of red. for clorophile B you need 420-470 nm of blue and 620-650 nm of red._
> _peak absorbtions are at A: 425 and 660 nm, and at B: 450 and 630. _
> _the power of spectrum should be stronger in red spectrum (arround 85-90%), others arround 5% of each. i did some test grows, but i only used 470 and 630 spectrum and the plants looked just fine. if you give them all the spectrum (for A and B type), they will grow even better._
> ...


 

i love google, sure they are going to take over the world, but it will deff be interesting.


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 29, 2009)

Oh no, what have I done?...i went and grew a bud bigger around than my arm...


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 29, 2009)

Check out the newest one, Pricey as fuk, but you know, spend money for quality shit...

the link:
http://www.prosourceworldwide.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=Jumbo+UFO+180W


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 29, 2009)

Where in the hell did my little falling high vagina go? Hows those little bitty penis ass plants gowing? So, why did you decide to grow inside a little box? Not expecting much growth height wise? Unusual, oh well....I can't wait to go to the next pumpkin chunkin contest out at the county fair, i hear they have dale jr. hats for the winners. You give your sister her pantyhose and lipstick back yet?


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## TCurtiss (Oct 29, 2009)

SlickRickMcgee said:


> Check out the newest one, Pricey as fuk, but you know, spend money for quality shit...
> 
> the link:
> http://www.prosourceworldwide.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=Jumbo+UFO+180W



have that lamp

It rocks!!!!!!!!!


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 29, 2009)

TCurtiss said:


> have that lamp
> 
> It rocks!!!!!!!!!


Awesome! Good to hear that someone has deviated from grandpa's system!


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## TCurtiss (Oct 29, 2009)

SlickRickMcgee said:


> Awesome! Good to hear that someone has deviated from grandpa's system!


Ya 700 bones wasn't cheap, but if I get a couple oz's off it that I grew myself

It all worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## eyeswideopen (Oct 29, 2009)

I'm six weeks into flower with my LED's and my journal can be seen on RIU here. I'm using the hydro grow 126W LED's. I have four of them in a 3x5 aero cab. I was very skeptical until this last week. From week 5 to 6 the buds have really fattened up. Right now I am very pleased but we'll see how everything turns out in a few more weeks when we hit the scale. I decided to go with LED because my overhead space was very limited due to the aero/nft setup. Either way, if you guys are interested check out my journal.


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 30, 2009)

eyeswideopen said:


> , if you guys are interested check out my journal.


Damn, those are some fat chicks Eyes. I'll be checkin back. Congrats on your system.


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## andyk187 (Oct 30, 2009)

"listen hear you beautiful b*tch, i'm about to f*ck you up with some truth" -kenny powers sorry i couldn't resist, i miss that show already! Been reading up on LED's and ordered an glowpanel 45 just to start off my babies and see how these LED's really work, i know it's not top of the line, and i supplement with a few 26w cfl's but i'm pumped about this! if i get good results, i'm going UFO soon, living in the deep south, HEAT is my biggest issue and if i can use some LED's i'll cut down on heat and can get rid of atleast 1 inline fan that's loud. I also have a Marine Reef aquarium and they're starting to push LED's in that field too and i've always been skeptical until i started to see equivalent results out of these LED products, they're only going to advance so that has me pumped, these things are the wave of the future we just have to get the price down! thanks for all the info. from previous growers and people having the balls to venture into the LED field and show us what can really be done!


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## MeisterYo (Oct 30, 2009)

She's still going strong.


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## SlickRickMcgee (Oct 30, 2009)

andyk187 said:


> "listen hear you beautiful b*tch, i'm about to f*ck you up with some truth" -kenny powers sorry i couldn't resist, i miss that show already! !


Haha, yeah, that's an awesome show. I hear a 2nd season is on it's way soon. It's the main reason I keep paying for HBO. Good luck with the grow, I can say that the LED is a great way to cut down on heat, I also supplement with a shit ton (kenny powers) of CFLs. 

I found a link that is really interesting. This new plasma light is even more efficient than LEDs and puts out more light than anything currently available. I don't think you can buy them yet, or at least I couldn't find where..., I guess if I use these I'll get even more of a sound bashing.. check it out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTGsM9pplUs&feature=player_embedded


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## MeisterYo (Oct 30, 2009)

I'd fux with that 250watt plasma.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Nov 3, 2009)

Plasma is old business. Been promised forever and always on the verge but never quite consumer retail materiel/price.


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## highaltitude (Nov 4, 2009)

xesvuli420 said:


> I am creating this forum for a place where REAL, SEASONED, LED users can come, and help people who are wanting to get the truth about LED's. *PLEASE, NO SALESMEN for LED company's* dishing out biased opinions, to sale a light. Please! Lets keep it fair, honest, and un-biased so people can decide if LED's are what they need individually, and if so, what type.
> 
> Lets be honest, there are a lot of opinions out there towards this type of lighting. Sadly most of the NEGATIVE opinions are from non-LED users, and most of the POSITIVE opinions are from LED Salesmen.
> 
> ...


Hello there. I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a seasoned LED user, but I have completely fallen in love with them. I have the exact same UFO as you show a link to in your post, and I have two more, with slightly different ratios of red/orange/blue and white, and I use them from seed to flower.
In fact I started my grow yesterday, as well as I have seeds sprouting for the next batch, so I'll keep you all posted at my own grow-post. My only comment to your choice of LED was the price. I've gotten my three UFOs through eBay, for roughly half of what your ad says - like $125 - $150 delivered at my door.


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## MeisterYo (Nov 5, 2009)

Yeah but sometimes the cheaper ones don't quite reach the color they say they do.

I have about 180w led and 120w floro in a small space and the plants are happy starting to get some rock hard nugs, not to mention how good my hallway smells when I get up in the morning.


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## fallinghigh (Nov 13, 2009)

SlickRickMcgee said:


> You really think those short shit plants look good? All of that cum guzzling has fucked your eye sight up. What's with the NASCAR references? I hate that shit more than your shitty grow. "trailer park" haha, I live iin a large metro area, you assume things, like you spout bullshit info. Your sister wants her pantyhose back.


Well first off you are a joke and ya for 4 or 5 days they looked good here are what they did in the couple of weeks since you stuck your foot in your mouth. notice they outgrew they box by 4 blocks and was still smashing into the light 

triple waterfall nft-led-floro 3 weeks the small ones been in 5 days


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## SlickRickMcgee (Nov 13, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> Well first off you are a joke and ya for 4 or 5 days they looked good here are what they did in the couple of weeks since you stuck your foot in your mouth. notice they outgrew they box by 4 blocks and was still smashing into the light
> 
> triple waterfall nft-led-floro 3 weeks the small ones been in 5 days



Your a bit of joke yourself. Yeah, your plants grew. They do that...grow and stuff. They look good, congrats.

I didn't really stick my foot in my mouth though, I was slinging shit, so I'll say whatever. Obviously they weren't gonna stay little forever. 

My shit grew a bit too.
2 seeds. Top cola is about 17". Bye the way, you attacked first dog, So you know how it goes. bark, bark!


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## fallinghigh (Nov 14, 2009)

you know with you its Kush vs shwagg I use a Jar you use a bag. I am only interested in medical quality,as it is my medicine. You probably trade it for meth. Here is a real nug for you to gaze over.

p.s. I dont bark, but if you see teeth, RUN! 



SlickRickMcgee said:


> Your a bit of joke yourself. Yeah, your plants grew. They do that...grow and stuff. They look good, congrats.
> 
> I didn't really stick my foot in my mouth though, I was slinging shit, so I'll say whatever. Obviously they weren't gonna stay little forever.
> 
> ...


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## SlickRickMcgee (Nov 16, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> you know with you its Kush vs shwagg I use a Jar you use a bag. I am only interested in medical quality,as it is my medicine. You probably trade it for meth. Here is a real nug for you to gaze over.
> 
> p.s. I dont bark, but if you see teeth, RUN!


Your so fancy with your jars and medical quality shit. snooorrrrr. 

This thread is officially boring as fuck.


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## fallinghigh (Nov 16, 2009)

SlickRickMcgee said:


> Your so fancy with your jars and medical quality shit. snooorrrrr.
> 
> This thread is officially boring as fuck.


Well if people come to a medical marijuana forum to look up how to grow shwagg ass bammer turd nugs I am sure they will look you up, for you are the fucking man at that. So stay were they can find you and don't bother us.

for the rest..... Actually the thread did not get boring it is just about to get good. The Veg Oven is Growing better then I ever hoped. It has the capacity to grow 30+ plants at a dense 18" in 2.5-3 weeks. More compact than a 400 watt metal halide in veg about 150 watts in led and 160 watt 2 shop lights in floro 2 6500 and 2 4500 bulbs 4 blue flood 8 red flood at 12-13 watts each. 

Now I am only 100 watts less then the 400 but the plants are dence side shots growing instantly.better performance at lower wattage finally. Not recommended for flowering


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## seedczar (Nov 17, 2009)

20 pages and nothing.

Still no conclusive statement for leds. what i got was that for some people they work good, for some they dont.

I think im still going to use them and cfl combo. I have to grow in my closet of an apartment, not great ventilation. adn im looking to save money everywhere i can.


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## SlickRickMcgee (Nov 17, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> Well if people come to a medical marijuana forum to look up how to grow shwagg ass bammer turd nugs I am sure they will look you up, for you are the fucking man at that. So stay were they can find you and don't bother us.
> 
> for the rest..... Actually the thread did not get boring it is just about to get good. The Veg Oven is Growing better then I ever hoped. It has the capacity to grow 30+ plants at a dense 18" in 2.5-3 weeks. More compact than a 400 watt metal halide in veg about 150 watts in led and 160 watt 2 shop lights in floro 2 6500 and 2 4500 bulbs 4 blue flood 8 red flood at 12-13 watts each.
> 
> Now I am only 100 watts less then the 400 but the plants are dence side shots growing instantly.better performance at lower wattage finally. Not recommended for flowering


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## milowerx96 (Nov 17, 2009)

For 4 grand I can buy 13 1000 watt HPS/MH ballasts bulbs and cool tube hoods. I don't think I will be replacing those with my slow learning grower mentality. I am interested in LED lights but till the price comes down to something more practical and they address the light penetration issue you LED guys need to get off your high horse. I hate having to vent my lights so much. I love pulling large batches of weed off of huge ass plants. I have never seen an LED do that. I am not paying 4 grand for a light. Fuck that.


Bullethead21 said:


> LED's are blowing HID lighting away both in performance and power consumption.
> 
> They now make REAL 300W and 600W TRUE LED's that have 5 band spectrums that include UV and IR. ALL 5 bands of needed light spectrums are covered and can be controlled individually for different stages of growth ( e.g. veg, flower..ect...).
> 
> ...


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## fallinghigh (Nov 21, 2009)

ok a little side by side .

veg oven vs 400 watt metal halide 

veg oven is : 12 :12 watt led flood 4 blue 8 red 144watts
+ : 4 : 4 ft t12 floro bulbs 40 watts each 2x 
6500 2x 4200 160 watts of floro
304 watts total


There will be 2 categories total growing power, and type of growth

First I would say with a vertical setup the 400 watt could be running the veg unit plus the mothers. and the MH has more growing Power when it comes to plant size capability.

So it comes down to quality. What is quality when it comes to vegging. The standard has been if a light grows a plant more compact with less separation, and more bud sites, then it is better.more bud sites more compact. Now this may not be best for all applications such a sog but for scrog it could save a lot of time in pruning when the plant is naturally bushier.


pics ARE MASTER KUSH CLONES PICKED WITH EQUAL ROOTS COMMING OUT OF CLONNING 1week after transplant

1st pic MH Master Kush
2-4 pic Veg Oven Master Kush
5 pic Mother under 400 watt Mh
6-pic Flower room clones after veg oven


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## HomeGrownHairy (Nov 21, 2009)

Treeth said:


> No its true, they're the future and the immediate future.
> 
> LEDs are even arguably better than those new plasma lights...
> 
> ...


It figures you wouldnt post pix of your "LED success"...lol


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## HomeGrownHairy (Nov 21, 2009)

jay510 said:


> i will be the first my L.E.D works nice so far on my shorter plant nice dense buds as for my taller plants they look nice to they youger than my shorter one i will say get an led its works you be the judge for yourself and these are real pic grown from led thank let me know what you think


I see lots of cfl's. Looks like a cfl grow with LED's. Not a pure LED grow, which I thought this thread was about. How would you know how much the led's are contributing. My mistake.


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## fallinghigh (Nov 21, 2009)

HomeGrownHairy said:


> I see lots of cfl's. Looks like a cfl grow with LED's. Not a pure LED grow, which I thought this thread was about. How would you know how much the led's are contributing. My mistake.


 WELL IF YOU READ THIS WHOLE FUCKING THREAD AND THINK THAT YOU CAN USE THE LEDS FOR A FULL GROW THAN I THINK YOU MISSED THE BOAT.

At this point, the conversation is what benefit if any is there in using led at all, whatsoever.

LEDS ARE NOT A 400 WATT OR 600WATT MH OR HPS REPLACEMENT.


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## Crimble (Nov 21, 2009)

"At this point, the conversation is what benefit if any is there in using led at all, whatsoever.

LEDS ARE NOT A 400 WATT OR 600WATT MH OR HPS REPLACEMENT. "

fallinghigh you are wrong on that.

I can say 100% that you can veg 12 new clones in 3 gal. bags with a 90w, all blue VEG LED from GROWL, I have veged a full cycle and I am onto the next as we speak and I WILL NEVER WASTE MONEY AND POWER WITH A MH EVER AGAIN!

As for Flower, I am 4 weeks away from completion of my 1st round of Hash Plant with two 90w and one 120w five-band flower models and all I can say is that I have had ZERO heat issues, my electric bill was $56 this month, my lights hang so low I never have space issues, and if I have a full month to let these buds grow still, I am looking at a nice return after all is said and done.

I know the argument is... "LED's grow stringy, non-dense, little buds". I would agree that LED's, when applied improperly, will yield bad results, just as hanging your HID too low will result in burning, hanging your LED's the same hight as your used to with HID's, seems to be a major problem with the reputation of LED grow lights. I have stated this before, my major issue with LED grow light companies are the clams on the sites about "this is equal to that" and "this light covers the much area", I can say 100% for certain that NO LED light has a large coverage area, the size of the unit seems to be the size of the coverage area (if ya want tight, dense buds). So other than price and coverage area, I LOVE MY LED'S and would recommend them to people, with a warning, just as I would recommend a Sony Vaio to someone wanting to get a Lap Top PC, but I would tell them that you have to be careful with Windows and I would warn LED users about reflection and coverage area, it has a way to go but LED WILL REPLACE HID Lights sooner than later.


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## HomeGrownHairy (Nov 23, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> WELL IF YOU READ THIS WHOLE FUCKING THREAD AND THINK THAT YOU CAN USE THE LEDS FOR A FULL GROW THAN I THINK YOU MISSED THE BOAT.
> 
> At this point, the conversation is what benefit if any is there in using led at all, whatsoever.
> 
> LEDS ARE NOT A 400 WATT OR 600WATT MH OR HPS REPLACEMENT.


How can you tell how much the led's are contributing since the grow uses both. That's my point so dont fucking yell


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## doitinthewoods (Nov 23, 2009)

LED grow lights haven't been around for that long, so i don't think anyone is very "seasoned" but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't heard anything good about them to be honest with you, but I'm always open to new ideas. I would personally have to see them in action to believe.


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## wildcatsweetart (Nov 23, 2009)

I thought of making some soft of led grid for in between the pots in my aero setup to grab the lower branches...... somewhat like the idea of hanging cfls low in the room. any thoughts?


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## jigfresh (Nov 23, 2009)

Crimble, I fucking love the string of christmas lights you got in that setup. Priceless.


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## fallinghigh (Nov 23, 2009)

HomeGrownHairy said:


> How can you tell how much the led's are contributing since the grow uses both. That's my point so dont fucking yell


cause I know what the floros can do by themselves. MH is proven better than floro, but the combo is better than MH for bushiness. led in my opinion is not close to a stand alone grow light, but just that little bit of added spectrum, a full balance of baking light field, and it works good.



doitinthewoods said:


> LED grow lights haven't been around for that long, so i don't think anyone is very "seasoned" but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't heard anything good about them to be honest with you, but I'm always open to new ideas. I would personally have to see them in action to believe.


fallowing pics are from this thread NOTICE THE BUDS UNDER LED SEEM HIARY AND UNDERDEVELOPED BUT VEGGING KICKS ASS






























MH VS LED COMBO
MH





LED





AS CLOSE TO A SUMMARY OF THE GOOD STUFF ON THIS THREAD.
BEST QUOTE


The Kush Guy said:


> , like you, was all excited about LEDs, no heat issues etc. I purchased two of the Blue panels, like these for a little test before I jumped in with both feet.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/All-RED-225-LED-...4.c0.m14.l1262
> 
> And tried to use them for Vegging some ladies, I very quickly abandoned them all together and after doing some heavy research into LEDs vs HPS the claims made by the LED sales guys didnt really add up. There are some fabulous articles about growing with LEDs, guys not growing bud but other plants that did some serious scientific research in their own labs to determine LEDs have uses but not by themselves for growing.
> ...


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## Crimble (Nov 24, 2009)

ha ha ha, yeah the Christmas lights do nothing, I had this idea to use lights instead of netting but it wasn't strong enough, so now they are there just to make me feel good


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## Crimble (Feb 4, 2010)

Wow, seems like this thread got lost in the shuffle. 
So, to update my results;
We harvested on Winter Solstice (hippies), during my first grow I was using LED's for the 1st time, a new room for the 1st time, a new strain, and new food, so I was really dealing with allot of things to figure out. We keep our room temps WAY too low and almost no humidity, we also cut back way too much undergrowth just because of what we were used to doing in the past. This time we are keeping the room much warmer, allot more humidity, also reflection underneath your canopy is key, we use allot reflection and are seeing better results this round. We noticed it didn't take allot of time to take it all down so we knew from the start that the amount would be less than hoped for, after we trimmed and cured we were left with allot for us to smoke but not very much more  
The quality was amazing, Dank, heddie, all the buzz words ya hear on tour in the lot 
The quantity left allot to be desired, we didn't get the amount that we wanted, but granted I was only using 3 panels and I wanted to have 6 @ 120 watt models but we could only get 3 at the time, so now during our second round, we have 6 @120 watt panels overhead and [email protected] 50 watt panel at each end lighting up the under canopy, using so much more heat and humidity and cutting nothing back, we are excited to see what happens at the end of round two.


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## jigfresh (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm still here bro. Glad to hear the smoke was good. Looking forward to your next round... see how that goes.

Thanks for keeping us posted.


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## prof. chaos (Feb 7, 2010)

Mindmelted said:


> I would like to know who said led's do not produce heat.
> I bought 1 of the 90 watt ufo and put in a small grow tent.
> The temps got up to 92f with that ufo.


i know im way late on this one but it need to be set straight from someone who works with electric. leds themselves do not get hot. the heat is produced by the electric current running through the fixture. remember, most times your converting ac to dc and that conversion alone creates heat. still not as much heat as anything else. my cfls used to get hotter then my led. with that said, growing two plants at a time in s scrog with a 90w ufo, 4 15w panals surrounding, and two red super bloom bulbs leds for flower does my small box fine. happy growing


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## deepsmoke (Feb 7, 2010)

my dispensary has a small room set up with a mixed spectrum in for "special bud". it contains a 120w grow light 150 hps 90w ufo triband and 90w blue ufo the undergrowth is amazing. the blue is placed on the bottom of the room shining up with 120 going across and the others placed above. i think there is good growth and buds are nice size kinda fluffy but good. i like led's i think there is room for improvement but they work good just need some other lighting to mix it in right.


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## olyippie (Feb 10, 2010)

I bought a 576 watt LED, I haven't started the grow yet, but it is a true LED with all 5 spectrums, from a guy the Alabama his web site is growitled.com his prices are better than most I checked out. So check it out.
Ol'Yippie


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## repvip (Feb 12, 2010)

So I've been using LED for the first 2 weeks in flower, then rotate under HID lighting. 

However, I'm going to let this one finish under the LED. The LED panel is a 350watter. I tend to think LEDs are great for vegging, and questionable for producing nice buds. But, I never tried.. so here's hoping. It's been three weeks and just removed the undergrowth.

edit oops you probably would want to know those pics are 23 days flowering from 1 week veg


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## Mike Huntstinks (Feb 12, 2010)

If any of you are interested I just started a LED grow here https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/302271-160w-led-hybrid-grow.html


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## asa77sol (Feb 13, 2010)

Mike Huntstinks said:


> If any of you are interested I just started a LED grow here https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/302271-160w-led-hybrid-grow.html


Im going there, but is there anybody here who use homemade LEDlamp?


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## repvip (Feb 13, 2010)

This probably isn't the best thread to ask this, but does anyone have an idea what these light color leaves mean?

I keep the LED within an inch using a light mover, and I notice the upper leaves are light green--lighter green the closer they are to the LEDs. The leaves farther down, >4-6" are normal green and look fine.

If I keep the LED 4-6" from the tops, then there is less light green, and more normal looking green color.

So... what do you think? Am I burning or damaging my plants by keeping the LEDs too close?

It's not a nute issue. The same strain under MH are a beautiful shade of green. Other than being lighter color, they look healthy.. so I don't know what to make of it.

edit: to compare with MH see that pic. Also to further prove my point, a couple more pics of plants under a UFO LED, of same composition (LED scpectrum) just smaller package--you can see it is 4-6" above, and these plants stay that nice green color. Really makes me wonder if you can get too close... maybe the sweet spot isn't where I thought, again! haha


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## Latrobe (Feb 14, 2010)

So this is my first grow and after much debate decided to go with a 90w LED light in a 3'x1.5'x5' Grow Tent. 

Picked up 3 clones of different variety

1-Black Domina
2-PM Dawn
3-Green Crack

Lets hope I don't kill 'em


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## calloftheancient (Feb 14, 2010)

What is a good LED ratio? I've seen RBO(7:1:1) What is the 5 spectrum ratio? I'm looking into a custom made one. Any info will be appreciated!


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## Crimble (Feb 16, 2010)

Repvip - my guess is that is just rapid growth, all is well my friend. I get that too, on the higher parts of my plants (growing scrog) I see light green areas but within a day or two, they turn as dark as the rest of the plant, all seems good to me. 

Callofthein... Check out the Growl site , they have a few models from last year and new ones coming for thi year that are good ratios.


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## stelthy (Feb 16, 2010)

LEDs work  .............with CFLs only 5 weeks to go.. still gotta use my co2 kit and my tub of cha ching  - STELTHY


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## pufntreez (Feb 16, 2010)

wow i am glad to see what leds are doing to the marijuana community while the guy who posted the thread at the begining was getting bashed i have no more then to say hats off to you bro , actually i do have more to say ! i have currently purchased a LEd setup that is = to 400+ and i might say again it has done wonders for my plants and has put so much definition to mah ladies as far as looks and all go. and i have a 400 mh in the tent but that is being used as the other spectrums it doesnt have like the white and blue or should i say not enough of..i got half of them on the mh side and half of them on the LED side so we will see ill keep ya posted...again hats off to the guy who posted this whole LED light thread cheers m8


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## stelthy (Feb 16, 2010)

fallinghigh said:


> LMAO YA THAT LOOKS GOOD BWAHAHAHAHHA....GUESS WHAT....THEY TOLD YOU IT WOULDN'T WORK ....AND....... IT DIDN'T ARE 90% OF THE PEOPLE USING LED RETARDED I mean come the flux on people
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## stelthy (Feb 16, 2010)

5 whole weeks to go 28 days of co2 boosts and 10 doses of CHA-CHING!!  - STELTHY


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## blade9z (Feb 16, 2010)

38 days flowering 90w UFO, 3x18w CFL+ 2x18w CFL side lights. 2x2litre homemade CO2, nutes is Ionic Bloom and Boost.


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## potspot (Feb 16, 2010)

I've just harvested one of my 5 plants which is in a CABY with (2) 90 WATT UFOs. For this being my first grow I can't complain at all! The lights work well! I have 4 more plants which will be ready to cut in the next week. My carmelicious has HUGE fat buds and are sticky as hell. I'll try and take some pics. 

I will be making some modifications though as I'm looking to expand my grow areas to encompass 8 plants. Sunlight Solutions sells the 90 WATT UFOs for $199.00 http://www.sunlightsheds.com/led_systems.htm?gclid=COPdz8eD-J8CFRcvagod9Cq2XQ

I'm looking to get a 270 Watt Super Nova http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/led-supernova-270w-enhanced-spectrum-led-grow-lights-pi-1759.html 

Those who say these lights don't work are simply full of shit. Welcome to the new world and evolving technology friend.

http://www.hidhut.com/catalog 
looks to be about a $1000.00 but it's comparable to a 1000 watt


Treeth said:


> Allright then you want a little truth? You wanna know why a _600 watt hps is STILL all you need to get?_
> 
> -This game is all about wattage, everyone.
> 
> ...


----------



## filter funker (Feb 16, 2010)

Seriously considering getting these when the price drops:

http://ledinnovationdesign.com/products.html

The liquidcooled smartbar to be exact. These are some bad ass lights!


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## ghostuk (Feb 16, 2010)

i have just start'd testing some L.E.D grow lights...! 
and i am sorry to say ...i am not very happy with them so far .
growth seems to be very slow.dont get me wrong ,she is growing but no where near as fast as the girl under 300w lights.i dont see wot all the fuss is about L.E.D's...?if any one has any tips i would be gratefull....i have 2 grow boxes 1 for flowering and 1 for veging,flowering a blue berry at 1 week into flower..!AK-48 is under L.E.D's at 3" high and 4 leaf's
FREE THE WEED AND SAVE ARE PLANET..!


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## bigbird87 (Feb 16, 2010)

filter funker said:


> Seriously considering getting these when the price drops:
> 
> http://ledinnovationdesign.com/products.html
> 
> The liquidcooled smartbar to be exact. These are some bad ass lights!


wow that company seems to have some cool products


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## filter funker (Feb 17, 2010)

bigbird87 said:


> wow that company seems to have some cool products


No doubt, it's nice to see some professional quality agricultural LED units on the market. They are very high powered led's that look totally different than any of the ones iv'e seen on ebay ect. Liquidcooled may be the way of the future for led lighting


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## Crusty Green Jeans (Feb 17, 2010)

I talked with a guy from one of the light/led companies trying to piece up a system. He said the led systems that are sold do not match what the HPS and MH can do. Basically a watt is a watt. Those LED systems that say they are 120w same as 400w isn't true. It would take 3 1/3 of the 120w LED systems to match the 400w. For some plants the led lights work, but not weed. If you want the bigger sticker bud do not use LED's.
This is what I learned. Hope it helps someone.
If you have the space and the cash, go solar, it's the only solution I can think of to save money unless you steal it from a neighbor. But I cannot condone the latter. hehehe


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## iron joint (Feb 17, 2010)

Treeth said:


> Allright then you want a little truth? You wanna know why a _600 watt hps is STILL all you need to get?
> 
> _-This game is all about wattage, everyone.
> 
> ...


Watts don't grow plants, the light does. If something is more efficient and can convert the watts into little better then your HPS, then its going to do it. Your HPS wastes a lot of its energy on heat. STOP thinking that watts grow plants.


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## stelthy (Feb 17, 2010)

blade9z said:


> 38 days flowering 90w UFO, 3x18w CFL+ 2x18w CFL side lights. 2x2litre homemade CO2, nutes is Ionic Bloom and Boost.


Your lady is coming on nicely, what strain is she? how tall? - STELTHY


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## repvip (Feb 26, 2010)

Up to 39 days now using 350w LED on a light mover 

23 days

edit: oops those pics are actually 34 days not 39. that's about 40 plants btw


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## IAm5toned (Feb 26, 2010)

once upon a time, not long ago, when people wore pajamas and lived life slow-

i thought about using led's.
dismayed by the high cost of horticultural grade light panels, i decided to do some research on the matter.
since i am a lazy fucker, and my eyes aernt quite what they used to be, i decided to read someone elses research instead. i mean why waste countless hours of sifting through books and articles at the library when someone else has already done it, and more extensively than you or I could ever imagine...
So I contacted the good people at NASA. its nice to see our tax dollars at work at something useful for a change.
this was 5 years ago...
here's the skinny-
red and blue led's will provide adequete lighting for leafy plants, such as lettuce, parsely, cabbage, etc etc.
however it sucks for anything else, especially anything that bears _fruit or heavy flowers_ 
green led's are completely useless. useless! turns out the only thing green light does is give the plants there color, im not exactly sure why this is, but they say it has to do with reflected wavelengths. leafy plants grown under red/blue light combos with a_ total absence_ of white and green light grow fine, except there leaves take on a dark, blackish hue. there is no discernable taste or nutritional difference, just color.
however they (NASA) discovered something else quite remarkable about led's in the process.. in humans-


> Biologists have found that cells exposed to near-infrared light  that is, energy just outside the visible range  from LEDs grow 150 to 200 percent faster than those cells not stimulated by such light. The light arrays increase energy inside cells that speed up the healing process.


 the entire article can be found here:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/news/news/releases/2003/03-199.html

but back to plants and led's... currently, the shuttles use a high tech version of t5's. however, they are inefficient for 2 reasons, 1- takes too much power... what? yep. floros are inefficient at converting power into light, and the light you get is simply not suitable for agriculture. it might grow some pretty spices and little flowers, but if you want plants that produce... well the t5's just dont cut it. they are ideal for vegging, but like the red/blue led's they dont have a high enough intensity for what we want them to do. 2- heat generated by ballasts is apparently a pain in the ass to deal with in space... not a problem for us but it was a problem for nasa. so for the international space station, and future trips to the moon and mars, a more efficient means of generating light for horticulture was deemed a requirement, so the boys in the back went to work, and heres what they came up with.

they were unable to develop an _efficient_ LED panel for plants that produce fruit and heavy flowers. After many tries, it was decided that LED's would be used in a small, self contained hydroponic grow chamber, that was to be used as (drumroll) an herb production chamber. spices like oregano and parsley, and a strain of lettuce developed especially for the space program. the chamber is supposedly in the experimental phase now, and may have been used on the recent shuttle mission that just landed.

for the future, and to solve the problem of efficient lighting for space based agriculture, it seems that the people at U of A in huntsville in conjuction with the marshal space flight center are now developing sulphur-microwave lamps to be used for plants that bear fruit, and tubers like potatos and turnips. they say its the most efficient form of lighting ever devised by man, and has been in use commercially since 1993, used specifically in aircraft hangers and olympic sized gymnasiums. unlike the original microwave lamps that came out circa 1990, and were immediatly banned by the FCC due to electromagnetic interference with wi-fi frequencies, these new lamps do not have magnetrons, and instead utilize a 'light bar' to distribute light evenly along the length of the light bar. it works similar to fiber optics, in that the lamp is placed at the end of the tube, light travels through the tube and somehow (dont ask me how, im not a physicist) is dispersed evenly throughoout the tube and directed downward. One example of this technology is the National Air and Space Museum, where 3 (just 3) sulphur microwave lamps replaced _96 1000w MH HID lamps..._ LG is also rumoured to be in on the project, and may have a lamp/fixture available for mass production sometime by the end of summer 2011. 

so thats what i found out about lighting using LED's, from people that know more than all of us put together and have a budget, brains and the manpower to do all the things you always wanted to try. NASA, with its billions of dollars and thousands of cream of the crop scientists and dozens of universities at its disposal has decided that LED's are unsuitable for the type of growth we want, so im inclined to listen! though its fun to see the breakthroughs you guys achieve with LED's your doing work that was done almost 6 years ago, with products that are only now begining to become available to you, as the general public; and to me, its like your driving down a road that someone else has already been down with a better 4wd than yours, and got stuck... but you keep on driving anyways... but anyways, thats my .02 or .10 however you want to take it, im not knocking LED's, just IMHO i dont see how they are viable when it appears that you can achieve similar if not better results using CFL's or small HID lamps, at less than half the cost, and before someone says 'but led's are low wattage devices, and they will pay for themselves in savings vs HID'... how long will it take to pay off a 700$ led fixture by saving 5-10$ a month on power.....
that being said, i wish you guys and gals the best of luck!


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## TCurtiss (Feb 26, 2010)

Jack Herer 

8 Weeks

LED 180 Jumbo Watt UFO from Pro Source







Any Questions?


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## IAm5toned (Feb 26, 2010)

TCurtiss said:


> Jack Herer
> 
> 8 Weeks
> 
> ...









unknown bagseed, suspected to be Orange Bud... grown under 2 43w cfl's...
got 1 question- how much did that jumbo LED panel cost  lol... just givin ya flack man


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## TCurtiss (Feb 26, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> unknown bagseed, suspected to be Orange Bud... grown under 2 43w cfl's...
> got 1 question- how much did that jumbo LED panel cost  lol... just givin ya flack man


Classic







Looks like the same stuff - edit I wish I knew the strain but it's a mystery strain to me also


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## IAm5toned (Feb 26, 2010)

thats one hairy lady u got there... is she italian? mebbe french? rofl.... nice genetics tho


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## TCurtiss (Feb 26, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> thats one hairy lady u got there... is she italian? mebbe french? rofl.... nice genetics tho


Thanks, and I wish I knew it was suppose to be a Jack Herer plant but I think my contact got confused, mind you I am not mad it looks crazy and I have not gotten a real good look at her I have her stuffed in the corner

She maybe coming out soon though, I can wait to taste her and she is not nearly as sticky as the real Jack plant but very bushy


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## Beyourself13 (Apr 24, 2010)

Hi guys im on my first grow. I have a 4'x4'x8' grow tent with a 90watt ufo. Their are two ecogrowers in their with 6 plants each. im using general hydro for nutrients. I just ordered a 300watt tri-band panel from jacks bargin bin. The plants are doing great. Any thoughts or ides for me?


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## growweedtoday (Jul 10, 2010)

I personally have just switched to using LEDs. I purchased one to see how it would work based on the recommendation of a friend and have been very pleased with it so far! I have five plants flowering under this 90W LED Light by eLoofa(click here to see the light for sale on Amazon.com). It has a little fan on it and barely produces any heat. 

I had five small plants that were grown vegetatively using CFLs. However, I was getting some heat problems from the four 105W CFLs in my small grow area so when my plants started flowering and I switched to the eLoofa LED panel. My plants seemed to love it and grew another half a foot. The buds were starting to fatten nicely that got light from the panel, but at that point, I felt the one LED panel wasn't enough coverage for all five plants because there were shadowy bits on the sides of the plants that were too far from the light. I decided to supplement the plants with two 100W CFL 2700k lights from the sides. The amazing thing is the plants still lean towards the LED light in comparison to the CFLs, which seems to indicate to me that the LEDs are working. The part of the buds that are faced towards the LED are also fatter than the other parts of the buds. All the plants have buds that are starting to really fatten up, and there's still another month of flowering left. The eLoofa panel worked well enough for me that I just bought another. I live in a hot area so heat can really be an issue and I'm a small-scale grower and just want a personal stash. I don't want to have to deal with venting and ducting so the LED panels are great because they don't produce any heat. I'm going to be starting another grow soon using just an LED panel from seedling to harvest so I guess that will be the real test to see if it works.

Here are pictures of some of the plants that have been growing under the LED now (click on the pics for a bigger version). One is under the LED, and one picture another one of the plants under a regular light:

 

Here's a close-up of the trichomes on last picture:


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## crbruton (Jul 12, 2010)

(this only concerns people who dont have large grow ops) Its like no matter how many threads there are, no1 can ever address or even do what seems sooo obvious to me. CLEARLY LED lights are new and controversial. Clearly leds are lacking. if you were to use an LED for all stages of growth there are definite cons. but as of now, it seems that would be an idiotic thing to do since we have all of these wonderful HID lamps like HPS that acheive our goals ooo so well. so CLEARLY...why doesnt anyone use a fluorescent for germination which is DEFINITELY all that is needed, a blue LED for veg...assuming ur veg area isn't too large for the light's recommended coverage space, and an HPS for flowering. HPS is definitely better for flowering than a mh or cfl or LED becasue its spectrum is exactly what the plant needs and its lumens are wayyyy high. The blue led for veg is perfect because theres little heat, lower cost, lower electricity bill, and easier and cheaper maintenance if it breaks at any point. Everyone on here talks like you have all of the money in the world to spend on the right materials, yet no1 ever gets the rmost efficient stuff. talkin about spendin a few more for excellent quality...try adjust a wings for ur hps. try a blue ufo for veg. try just some normal fluorescents for germ and seedling stage. it all makes sense nowwwww.


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## SlickRickMcgee (Jul 13, 2010)

stelthy said:


> Hi welcome  I am using 2 x 90w led UFOs at 630 nm EACH and a selection of CFLs A) you havest to early B) LEDs accompanied by CFLs do work watch my thread if you have little faith LED s used propperly work


I hadn't plucked them yet, but they where still scrawny for the first try. I later did a better set-up with a larger rez. What is your link to the cfl/LED grow you have? 

My 2nd try turned out good. The pics below are of the plant before plucking it, and the a pic of the top cola. That is 2liter bottle for comparison, not a 20 oz... But yeah I had 6 months worth off of 2 bag seeds.


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## axjnkee (Nov 5, 2010)

interesting....subscribed.


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## Nickyj420 (Nov 6, 2010)

xesvuli420 said:


> I am creating this forum for a place where REAL, SEASONED, LED users can come, and help people who are wanting to get the truth about LED's. *PLEASE, NO SALESMEN for LED company's* dishing out biased opinions, to sale a light. Please! Lets keep it fair, honest, and un-biased so people can decide if LED's are what they need individually, and if so, what type.
> 
> Lets be honest, there are a lot of opinions out there towards this type of lighting. Sadly most of the NEGATIVE opinions are from non-LED users, and most of the POSITIVE opinions are from LED Salesmen.
> 
> ...


 
I Fell for the lie in High times magazine saying the first ufo wich wasnt even 660 nm
red beat a 400 watt all the way through etc.. etc.. i mean it will beat a 400 in veg but only if there's a 2x2 area were a 400 MH will cover way more area. The weed is alot weaker you need that fire from a HPS to get the thc going some. i noticed alot of Xtra resin with some strains Major stretch in flower though and barely got you high with the first UFO. Then with the 5th generation with 660 nm and some white in there with some blues stretch was gone. Flowering was better but still very weak trying to flower a strong sativa id recomend a 660 nm with white blue and some orange with uvb added what i really wanna experiment with is an auto flower on 18 hrs straight through, with uvb added and see the difference cause it does add more resin in certain strains but without the kick that maybe uvb could do thats my next experiment. I don't believe plants just want the red or blue they want everything nature has given them for thousands of years. Even MH and HPS is lacking what they need let alone led's, Shit who's to say all they need is NPK to try ordering exotic soils plants will take up what's ever in the soil if it's by a gold mine theyll take up some of that shit too. Only trust your own experiments stop believing what they tell you follow nature, As far as led's go for flower id go with heavy indicas keep em short cause led's dont reach the lower leaves and make sure your red's are deep reds i Veg with LED's always femanized seeds never clones and i never get hermemphadites


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## sean stevens (Nov 9, 2010)

ghostuk said:


> i have just start'd testing some L.E.D grow lights...!
> and i am sorry to say ...i am not very happy with them so far .
> growth seems to be very slow.dont get me wrong ,she is growing but no where near as fast as the girl under 300w lights.i dont see wot all the fuss is about L.E.D's...?if any one has any tips i would be gratefull....i have 2 grow boxes 1 for flowering and 1 for veging,flowering a blue berry at 1 week into flower..!AK-48 is under L.E.D's at 3" high and 4 leaf's
> FREE THE WEED AND SAVE ARE PLANET..!


 what spec are your lights and what distance are your plants from your leds. i use a ufo 180 for veg only and if i drop it below 36 inches from rooted cuttings they start to light stress and die. dunno if this helps but my veg plants grow tall bushy and rapid super silver haze loved it.


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## solarguy (Nov 21, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/385595-led-grow-siiiiick-haight-solid.html


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## Crimble (Nov 26, 2010)

"i have just start'd testing some L.E.D grow lights...! 
and i am sorry to say ...i am not very happy with them so far .
growth seems to be very slow.dont get me wrong ,she is growing but no where near as fast as the girl under 300w lights.i dont see wot all the fuss is about L.E.D's...?if any one has any tips i would be gratefull....i have 2 grow boxes 1 for flowering and 1 for veging,flowering a blue berry at 1 week into flower..!AK-48 is under L.E.D's at 3" high and 4 leaf's
FREE THE WEED AND SAVE ARE PLANET..!"

I would def say that you need to have alt the minium 1000W to get any real kind of result with LED. I would recommend the company Growl LED www.ledgrowlight.com, they make the top of the line LED grow LIGHT, I have great results with them!


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## karr (Nov 27, 2010)

Crimble said:


> "i have just start'd testing some L.E.D grow lights...!
> and i am sorry to say ...i am not very happy with them so far .
> growth seems to be very slow.dont get me wrong ,she is growing but no where near as fast as the girl under 300w lights.i dont see wot all the fuss is about L.E.D's...?if any one has any tips i would be gratefull....i have 2 grow boxes 1 for flowering and 1 for veging,flowering a blue berry at 1 week into flower..!AK-48 is under L.E.D's at 3" high and 4 leaf's
> FREE THE WEED AND SAVE ARE PLANET..!"
> ...



So how are you not very happy with led growth....then recommend to us to buy the same led units? forgive me, i am a little lost here. 


Plenty of people (in this very thread) are growing just fine with 200w or so of LED, maybe you just picked one of the many LED companies that just have a good sales pitch and no product to back it up.


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## Crimble (Nov 28, 2010)

Sorry Karr I was posting a quoter from ghostuk and I guess I don't know how to use the Quote features, I was responding to that post.


----------



## ledbudguy (Dec 2, 2010)

growweedtoday said:


> I personally have just switched to using LEDs. I purchased one to see how it would work based on the recommendation of a friend and have been very pleased with it so far! I have five plants flowering under this 90W LED Light by eLoofa(click here to see the light for sale on Amazon.com). It has a little fan on it and barely produces any heat.
> 
> I had five small plants that were grown vegetatively using CFLs. However, I was getting some heat problems from the four 105W CFLs in my small grow area so when my plants started flowering and I switched to the eLoofa LED panel. My plants seemed to love it and grew another half a foot. The buds were starting to fatten nicely that got light from the panel, but at that point, I felt the one LED panel wasn't enough coverage for all five plants because there were shadowy bits on the sides of the plants that were too far from the light. I decided to supplement the plants with two 100W CFL 2700k lights from the sides. The amazing thing is the plants still lean towards the LED light in comparison to the CFLs, which seems to indicate to me that the LEDs are working. The part of the buds that are faced towards the LED are also fatter than the other parts of the buds. All the plants have buds that are starting to really fatten up, and there's still another month of flowering left. The eLoofa panel worked well enough for me that I just bought another. I live in a hot area so heat can really be an issue and I'm a small-scale grower and just want a personal stash. I don't want to have to deal with venting and ducting so the LED panels are great because they don't produce any heat. I'm going to be starting another grow soon using just an LED panel from seedling to harvest so I guess that will be the real test to see if it works.
> 
> ...


Sweet buds  I just switched to LED also using 5 x 170w hybrids and I'm really impressed! My grow is in day 20 of flower right now, you can check it out here https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/378470-confined-space-850w-led-master.html


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## SwiftGrow (Dec 2, 2010)

I did alot of research on LEDS and came to realize the biggest problems people have with LEDS is they get them from some crap company or do not get enough of them. Too many companies order LEDS from China and sell them on ebay and while some work alot dont. You get what you pay for and they are by no means cheap but then again ballast/hood/bulb setup isnt either. I chose to use HPS and LED in flower and Flouro and LED in veg. While I'm certain that LED can veg or flower by themselves I do not have the money to buy enough LEDs to cover what 2 600w HPS can so I use mine for supplemental lighting and plan on adding more. Kessil/Dicon has spent millions in research on LEDS and optics so when they said it takes 6 H150 LEDS to cover a 4x4 tent with Optimal lighting. Other larger panels are in excess of 1000$ each so for now I'm using HPS and adding LED as i can  I think like any new technology LEDs are getting better and slowly will get cheaper. 

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/384835-swiftgrow-journal.html


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## Viagro (Jan 10, 2011)

SwiftGrow said:


> Kessil/Dicon has spent millions in research on LEDS and optics so when they said it takes *6 H150 LEDS to cover a 4x4 tent *with Optimal lighting.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/384835-swiftgrow-journal.html


6? That would be 2 3/4 sq ft per light. Three Kessils would be plenty.

I don't know how you'd even fit 6 in a 4x4 tent with the recommended 1 ft> spacing.


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## surgedup (Jan 10, 2011)

Hey guys I have a opportunity to buy a 300w grow panel pro led from sunshine systems off craigslist for 260 bucks I own a 600w hps and a 250w mh I think this is a steal for the price the guy has only used it for one grow and is moving back in with his parents and cant use it no more. He does not have the warranty papers but he said it is still under the 2 year warranty .... he can prodive the receipt when he bought it and the model and serial number... what do you guys think how many plants can i grow under this 300w grow panel pro led .... the guy said he had 15 plants under it in one gallon containers and pulled off a decent grow for that many plants ..... what do you guys think obviously its worth the buy since these units on sunshine system site are going for 1000 dollars still and 799-599 on some sites depending where you get it let me know guys ... what you think... it is a steal for the price though so I am going to buy it I just want your opinions ....


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## smokefrogg (Feb 7, 2011)

wow that's a risk, but man if you got the ca$h to toss why not

i scored on a haight solid state ppf-400 through craigslist, only $160 and no waiting around for shipping, it's totally got my 2'x4' veg space covered


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## ChucklesD (Feb 19, 2011)

surgedup said:


> Hey guys I have a opportunity to buy a 300w grow panel pro led from sunshine systems off craigslist for 260 bucks I own a 600w hps and a 250w mh I think this is a steal for the price the guy has only used it for one grow and is moving back in with his parents and cant use it no more. He does not have the warranty papers but he said it is still under the 2 year warranty .... he can prodive the receipt when he bought it and the model and serial number... what do you guys think how many plants can i grow under this 300w grow panel pro led .... the guy said he had 15 plants under it in one gallon containers and pulled off a decent grow for that many plants ..... what do you guys think obviously its worth the buy since these units on sunshine system site are going for 1000 dollars still and 799-599 on some sites depending where you get it let me know guys ... what you think... it is a steal for the price though so I am going to buy it I just want your opinions ....



Pretty cheap. If all the lights work on it I'd buy it. Or buy and resell on ebay!


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## Pureblood89 (Feb 19, 2011)

you need some sort of ventilation no matter what, cannabis respirates and creates a toxic environment for itself, you need to get fresh air in some way.


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## Canon (Feb 19, 2011)

Well, I'm a newbie with the LEDs. Just got one a few days ago and it's running.

Basicly a 2' X 2' X 5 ish closet, decided on trying a UFO. "180w" Lighthouse, 6 band, flower model 2011 (says will do all- errr maybe)

I see a lot I like about it, hope the plants feel the same.

I'm getting razzed about a pink light in my room from the wife though. 

With 4 in veg training, I'm having a hard time thinking a light that dim is good. I know, it's about the usable light, but still.

Okay, to make _me_ feel better, I added a 13w CFL in the middle down by the pot line. Thought about it and added another on a Y splitter.

Well getting closer to flower, I figured I'd make light and rigged a 70w HPS to replace the CFLs later.

Am I screwing this up this way?

Also the CFLs/HPS are on a 9 1/2 hr schedule while the LED is burning 18.
Will this throw the plants to flower? I'm not wanting to yet.

I've had great luck with the 250 HPS in this room, just the late summer's heat is nasty and trying to get away from it (like everyone else?).

Thanks for any input you may offer.
Canon

View attachment 1450175 HPS shown, CFLs same local when switched.


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## Humble Bee (Mar 9, 2011)

*Hi fellow Farmers*
*Me and my Leds have been hanging around for a while now, *
*I use a Homeb. XXL tent, filled with plants from seedlings that just gone into veg.. Waiting for my Homeb modular Berlin to arrive that will be my new room. *
*I&#8217;m not Led purist, so I do use Hps ( as a complement ) when flower times comes&#8230;*

*I use Full spectrum Leds, two 300W and a one 128W that is switchibly *

*So this is What gonna go into my new Tent:*

*Greenair co2 generator air-cooled*
*Ecotechnics digital Co2 Controller + temp and humidity controller*
*Two 150mm cooltubes each 600W*
*The LED´s*
*Dehumidifier*
*Air cooler (still looking for which one=0)*
*Three big oscillation fans *
*Two Lightrails*

*I&#8217;ve took a break in my growing this winter and had to start out from seed again but will grow in cycles a fast as those plants will allow me to take cuttings.*
*Have to find out and to keep a mom, use to take cuttings from cuttings but now I will try to find a nice mother and keep her happy, thought that 128 W LED will be enough in a Homebox XL. But that&#8217;s a later story*
*Just longing for the tent to arrive so I can start to dial in all stuff as I´m also new to Co2..*

*Chai*


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## Sr. Greensea (Mar 10, 2011)

i just got a flashlight with the new cree XM-L led. wow really bright. i think it puts out 100lumens per watt at 3amp and 160lumens perwatt at 3.5amps. it looks like led's will be the future. im not jumping on the wagon yet but i doubt it'll be more than a year before i give it a shot. i was lookin at the procyon but the technology seems like it still has some growing to do.haha


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## Viagro (Mar 10, 2011)

Sr. Greensea said:


> i just got a flashlight with the new cree XM-L led. wow really bright. i think it puts out 100lumens per watt at 3amp and 160lumens perwatt at 3.5amps. it looks like led's will be the future. im not jumping on the wagon yet but i doubt it'll be more than a year before i give it a shot. i was lookin at the procyon but the technology seems like it still has some growing to do.haha


Remember, lumens refers to visible light spectrum, not the light that plants use for photosynthesis (PAR).
--------------------------------

Procyon has a nice new mini=light kit out. 50w, and you can daisy chain them. Have to assemble, and solder the power line. (not included but offered dc>ac power source.

Why don't they just put the damn things together, I wonder? Cool light, anyway.


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## green bean (Mar 10, 2011)

Hey everybody, I use a spectra 180w led from GHL. The light was pretty expensive, but it works. My last grow was a SOG with 8 clones and a got a yeild of 110 grams. It could have been better(I'm kind of a noob). The buds were chunky and resinous just like hps buds. The results were comparable to a 250w hps. I really like the light because I can use it without fear that it could cause a fire-something that gave me anxiety with my hps. Its interesting how these things work. They are like microchips and microchips cost is reduced by 50% every 18 months or they become twice as powerful at the same cost. So we should see exciting advances soon. They are the future for sure.


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## HenryDavidThrowed (Mar 27, 2011)

DUDE not all of us can fuck with venting a MH or HPS. not all of us can afford EVERYTHING we would like to grow with so we make due to the best of our fiscal abilities. you are not smoking my stash, or their stash. WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN STASH. if you have everything under the sun to grow with, then go for it. just keep your whiny fucking comments to yourself


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## cervezacorona (Apr 1, 2011)

Nocturn3 said:


> Why not do the sensible thing, and invest in proper ventilation instead. It's not just there to keep the lights cool, it also provides fresh air for the plants, and is usually a prerequisite for odor control.


Why don't you invest in some _get the hell out of the LED threads._


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## Serapis (Apr 1, 2011)

This is my third time today reporting your insulting posts to others... I suggest you take a break from Roll it Up.. 



cervezacorona said:


> Why don't you invest in some _get the hell out of the LED threads._


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## OhioMediGrower (Apr 1, 2011)

Great thread and posts everyone here is a video from my custom built 4x8x7 grow box with a 600 watt digital hps and a three spectrum 300 watt LED featuring the church, strawberry haze, pineapple express, qrazy train, vanilla kush, grape god, and white widow. All in pro mix ultimate organic and subcools super soil with roots as the super soil base. in 7 gal pots.
Tell me what you all think! Peace out.
[video=youtube;KhjbcOvnkhY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhjbcOvnkhY[/video]


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## solarguy (May 14, 2011)

ledbud said:


> Holy FUCK, you should check out http://ledbudguy.com/forumdisplay.php/2-LED-Bud-Guy-Grow-Journals there is some serious LED growing going on here!


spam? looks like a pretty new forum to me didnt see too much going on


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## solarguy (May 14, 2011)

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/431665-13-girls-have-my-tent-3.html

check it out guys, these are some sweet lights im using in this grow


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## 660nm420 (May 15, 2011)

Agree but with LED I only have to run my exhaust every 2-3 hours for 15 minute instead of constantly with HID. I would be able to only run it for 5 minutes every 2 hours lights on and every 3 lights off, if timers were more advanced, but sadly LED lighting continues to advance when we are still stuck with the 15 min increments in analog timing. How much power would that actually save?? about a 100 of the130 minutes that it runs in a day so about 77%


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## solarguy (May 15, 2011)

660nm420 said:


> Agree but with LED I only have to run my exhaust every 2-3 hours for 15 minute instead of constantly with HID. I would be able to only run it for 5 minutes every 2 hours lights on and every 3 lights off, if timers were more advanced, but sadly LED lighting continues to advance when we are still stuck with the 15 min increments in analog timing. How much power would that actually save?? about a 100 of the130 minutes that it runs in a day so about 77%


unless in a closed system with co2 you should run the exhaust 24 hours for maximum air exchange and co2 potential for plants, normal air only has 300-500ppm so circulating fastest is ideal and constantly. EVEN at night! many people think not to but that is when your plant is most likely to get mold issues and humidity rises fast at night. exhaust and sir flow prevent this...keep the fans on saving a few bucks vs ruining your crop or losing a good yield...

plus a big cost to grow lights and fans isnt the constant power draw but also the kick on power draw, like stepping on your gas pedal it uses more gas to get to 60 mph than it does at 60mph. every time your fan kicks on it might draw triple to ten times the power depending on how far you are form your substation. this is called demand. turning it on 8 times a day might cost more than leaving it on all day, hard to tell


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## 660nm420 (May 15, 2011)

Dude did you even read the mission statement? you work for the company that makes the "sweet lights" you are using. PLEASE respect the thread and follow it's rules so that it doesn't get all wrecked out like LED users unite * "PLEASE, NO SALESMEN for LED company's dishing out biased opinions, to sale a light." *


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## solarguy (May 15, 2011)

660nm420 said:


> Dude did you even read the mission statement? you work for the company that makes the "sweet lights" you are using. PLEASE respect the thread and follow it's rules so that it doesn't get all wrecked out like LED users unite * "PLEASE, NO SALESMEN for LED company's dishing out biased opinions, to sale a light." *


dude i didnt try and sell shit to you your the one who brought it up in my thread and asked for information on the lights!, that is why i dont even give people the name of the light or a place to find it....some salesman eh?

idiot. i answered your questions on this thread. fuck off just trying to help you. and in my thread im just documenting a grow not trying to sell shit. sorry i have a job. -rep to you.


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## 660nm420 (May 15, 2011)

It's not a completely closed off system. I have a room split into two with 1800w HPS and 400 cfms running constantly on one half and a 900w with a 200 cfm running on a timer within my house that is also well ventilated. In my room both exhausts cut off when I'm feeding co2. Either way I don't need nearly the wattage I once used in exhaust to get rid of all the heat so LED rocks like nothing I've seen in grow tech for a long time.


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## 660nm420 (May 15, 2011)

You're just posting the same stuff on all the LED threads so I have to wonder why. So post on but be careful because nobody on LED threads like salesman from LED companies using these forums to sell their lights. We want independent documented grow journals but hey I just don't want this thread ruined as well. Can those lights be purchased at 1200 a piece??


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## solarguy (May 15, 2011)

660nm420 said:


> You're just posting the same stuff on all the LED threads so I have to wonder why. So post on but be careful because nobody on LED threads like salesman from LED companies using these forums to sell their lights. We want independent documented grow journals but hey I just don't want this thread ruined as well. Can those lights be purchased at 1200 a piece??


 not selling you anything man, yes 1200 a piece but you cant have one.


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## cstran1313 (Aug 13, 2011)

hey just thought id post using kessil magenta 150h leds along with t5 supplement in coco on drip. just finished first week of flower.


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## ATTITUDESEEDS! (Aug 13, 2011)

nice startin a ghetto grow in a box check it out "Ps3 Box"


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## espoker19 (Aug 26, 2011)

I got a 345 watt penetrator using 1 watt diodes (the 5th gen version). 2 weeks into flower, and I gotta say this light is definitely awesome for VEG. Havent finished a grow yet but so far looks great compared to similar HID (400 watt) flower results at 2 weeks. Have 2 ladies nice thick pistils starting and decent canopy penetration..I definitely don't believe a 300 watt LED will compare to a 600 watt HPS as the companies claim, but I think it can definitely out grow a 400 watt HPS easy. These pics are from about 2 weeks ago BTW, I weeded out a male and a hermie (had a fukin nasty light leak I didn't know about.)


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## Fuzzbutter (Aug 26, 2011)

I've just started a new grow using a Kessil h150 General Purpose Purple. My hydro store guy gave me a huge discount because he wanted me to see how it did and review it. I'm very impressed with this light, it is BRIGHT. It hurts to even look in my grow tent it's so bright. Currently my little sprout has already caught up in size in just 3 days to a friend's plants, and they started their grow a couple weeks ago. The light is 8" above my sprout, I had it closer, but it caused slight light burn because it was too bright for the little thing; currently I'm vegging on a 20/4 light schedule. My little sprout is a nice deep green and has no stretch at all. I'm so impressed I'm already planning to purchase 3 more Kessil lights.

My Kessil​
Check out my sig for a link to my grow journal.


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