# C02 yields vs non



## DrFever (Oct 16, 2010)

HELLO CAN ANY ONE TELL ME HOW MUCH MORE YIELD THEY GOT WITH RUNNING CO2 SYSTEM THEN THERE PREVIOUS NON CO2 GROW I HERD THERES LIKE A 25 PERCENT INCREASE ON YIELD USING CO2 SYSTEMS IS THIS CORRECT ??? 

And if so whats average cost for a programed C02 set up


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## sparkjumper (Oct 17, 2010)

I ran blockhead for a year before using co2 enrichment and I definately saw a 25-30% increase in my yield.You have to have a real co2 system none of this yeast or dry icw crap and all other factors like lighting,temperature and humidity must be optimum.I use a green air cd-6 propane burner and a cap PPM3 controller.Without a co2 controller any method you use will be unsuccessful,a PPM swing of more than 250-300PPM is death to co2 enrichment,thus the absolute need for a controller.I set mine for 1500 PPM and when it drops to 1450PPM it kicks in my generator.The generator quits at setpoint (1500PPM) but the level normally rises to about 1650PPM even with the generator off,Thus the 200PPM fluctuation for a straight 12 hours and results that are obvious.


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## DrFever (Oct 17, 2010)

sparkjumper said:


> I ran blockhead for a year before using co2 enrichment and I definately saw a 25-30% increase in my yield.You have to have a real co2 system none of this yeast or dry icw crap and all other factors like lighting,temperature and humidity must be optimum.I use a green air cd-6 propane burner and a cap PPM3 controller.Without a co2 controller any method you use will be unsuccessful,a PPM swing of more than 250-300PPM is death to co2 enrichment,thus the absolute need for a controller.I set mine for 1500 PPM and when it drops to 1450PPM it kicks in my generator.The generator quits at setpoint (1500PPM) but the level normally rises to about 1650PPM even with the generator off,Thus the 200PPM fluctuation for a straight 12 hours and results that are obvious.


i thought so for yield it would be, Im lookin at top end co2 system there not cheap lol propane burner is out of the question so its got to be real mcoy if i purchase one as well i your lookin at what 75.00 a month to refill co2 tank ???


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## Mountainfarmer (Oct 17, 2010)

the local hydro shop around here charges $20/fill up


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## Random gardener (Oct 17, 2010)

I got a big c02 tank from airgas and it costs 45 bucks to fill...I got a big room and I gotta swap tanks once a week if you don't have a big room it will last much longer...c02 is a awesome luxury and well worth 200 bucks on a regulator...a ppm meter sucks for accuracy on bigger rooms so I just put it on a timerso its off at night (it will burn the crap out of plants if left on in dark)...you don't have to have a crazy set up for c02...as long as you have it in there


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## DrFever (Oct 17, 2010)

well xmass is comin early for me ) lookin at something like this one I LIKE IT


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## sparkjumper (Oct 18, 2010)

Why is a cheap lol propane burner out of the question Dr. Fever?Burners serve their purpose much better than co2 tanks,and getting a propane tank filled doesn't bring attention to yourself.Go to a welding shop once a week and see if you dont start getting paranoid as shit.Especially when the guy makes it clear with a wink and a nod that he knows what you're up to.Anyway,you can have the "best" most expensive system in the world and if you don't understand all the other parameters involved you wont be successful.Also hang your burner as high up the wall as you can without burning your ceiling lol and it wont raise temps in the room one iota.Whatever an iota is..And as for filling your "co2 tank" costing 75 dollars a week its more like filling your propane tank for 20 dollars and having it last 3 weeks or so


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## Saerimmner (Oct 18, 2010)

sparkjumper said:


> Why is a cheap lol propane burner out of the question?Burners serve their purpose much better than co2 tanks,and getting a propane tank filled doesn't bring attention to yourself.Go to a welding shop once a week and see if you dont start getting paranoid as shit.Especially when the guy makes it clear with a wink and a nod that he knows what you're up to.Anyway,you can have the "best" most expensive system in the world and if you don't understand all the other parameters involved you wont be successful.Also hang your burner as high up the wall as you can without burning your ceiling lol and it wont raise temps in the room one iota.Whatever an iota is..


The word is used in a common English phrase, 'not one iota', meaning 'not the slightest difference', in reference to a phrase in the New Testament: _"until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law"_ (Mt 5:18).[1]


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## sparkjumper (Oct 18, 2010)

Damn if I'd known it was biblical the word would never have eminated from this hole in my face lol


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## woodsmaneh! (Oct 18, 2010)

I have used Co2 for a number of years, my room is 12x10x7 and I use 1 BBQ tank a week. I use CAP controllers and run at 1500ppm. My results have been good, about 150 to 275g more than without Co2 under 1000w, total yield per 1000w is 675. They don't use as much water and ripen about 5 to 9 days early. Resen production looks highter also.


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## sparkjumper (Oct 18, 2010)

woods it seems our only difference is our room size,mine is 8 by 8.I have 3 1K vertizontals to make the girls happy.To cool an 8 by 8 with 3 1K non-cooled fixtures takes a minimum12,500 BTU window AC,thats what I use.That 50 watts a sq ft is imperative when using co2 enrichment,I also use 1500PPM as my setpoint.I'm between 1450PPM and 1650PPM for 12 glorious hours.Man now I couldnt conceive of flowering without co2 enrichment.It took long enough...For about two years I used my burner and whats called a cyclestat timer.It determines by cu ft of room size the frequency and length of burn.What an expensive hustle!I finally started testing levels with RAE systems co2 kit and man was there some fluctuating going on!Hell I was dropping to 800PPM then rising to 1500 then dropping in just an hour or so.Anyone thats used enrichment effectively knows that more than a 200 or so PPM swing and your plants are not benefitting.They will grow as if the ambient co2 levels were like 350-500PPM.No enrichment there lol


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## DrFever (Oct 18, 2010)

i am limited in my room for space but will check into the burner system 
was told it would cost me 75.00 a month for tank refill can anyone post what a burner system looks like


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## woodsmaneh! (Oct 19, 2010)

they look like small BBQ's
have a look here

http://www.greenair.com/old/co2-generator.htm


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## legallyflying (Oct 19, 2010)

if your light on space and don't want heat, then the burner is not for you. $75 a refill is waaaay too much. maybe you live in the sticks or something. A 50lb tank (the biggest) costs me $42. I recently switched over to a 30 lb aluminum tank. much lighter and the gas is around the same price. My 7 x 7 room at 1300 PPM 18/6 will last about 6 weeks. 

I don't run at 1500 which is the commonly referred concentration (no shortage of "oh yeah this is the number" on the forum) as you get a whole lot less bang for the buck above 1300. there is still an increase but not nearly enough to warrant a higher ppm. I run mine off a CAP XGC1 which is the fucking BOMB if you can find one for cheap. It controls light, humidity, temp, hydro and co2 PPM. I would agree that people trying to fubar CO2 are just wasting money. Mixing yeast, just opening the bottle now and then.. running them on a timer. Their is NO effective way to do it besides PPM. Period.

Make sure you keep your temp at 85-90 and your humidity in the 70-80% range when using the co2.Obviously your RH will go down during flower but you might as well have it at optimal when your vegging. 

cheers.


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## topshelf (Oct 20, 2010)

I dont think co2 gives you better yield it helps make it faster...you guys become better grower thats why you are getting better yields


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## sparkjumper (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm sorry to say you are wrong bro,are you an anti-gas extremist lol?Just kidding but I've run into a few that say silly things like "co2 is more for the growers confidence than for the plants.I've heard even funnier shit than that lol.Believe me 12 straight hours of high co2 PPM's in flower without more than a 200-250PPM fluctuation and without any limiting factors such as lack of light or food plus correct temps(85F) and humidity and you will experience the difference for yourself.As for it ripening faster I've never really noticed this but they grow sometimes inches a day during the stretch of early 12/12 photocycle.I've never seen the need to use co2 enrichment in the veg stage


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## Stoner Smurf (Oct 20, 2010)

Here's a video that shows what CO2 can do on Cowpea. Somebody posted it here awhile ago.
[video=youtube;P2qVNK6zFgE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2qVNK6zFgE&feature=player_embedded[/video]
I am pretty sure the video was made by some pro-global warming nutjobs, but whatever. Doesn't really matter who made it, it's a cool video none the less.


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## iscrog4food (Oct 20, 2010)

On my next setup i will get a burner and hook it up to the gas line on the house. That is the way to go, no filling nothing! I have a tank in a 10x11x8 and i have to change it ever 4 or 5 days. At $15 bucks a fill, thats about 170 bucks a grow. Really my setup is a bit undersized for my room as it only keeps ppms at about 1300-1400 unless i open the valve more and then I have to change every 2 or 3 days. Either way once you do a grow with it you will never be satisfied again without it.


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## woodsmaneh! (Oct 21, 2010)

I use 1 BBQ tank every 7 to 10 days and it cost me 21$ a fill. There is way too much research on the net to not know how and at what to run at so lets not go there. Heat can be an issue with a burner. I have it hot for 2 maybe 3 months a year, I just turn it off. As said above your just better growers... very true but IMHO Co2 is the last thing you do after you have mastered all the other variables, food, heat, humidity, temperature and knowing your plant. If you don't have that don't waste your money. Ask the guys in the hydro shops most say don't waste your time because they know your coming back to say it did not work. It is science and only works if everything is 100%, that's why I use computer controllers and get more yield. The devil is in the details......


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## DrFever (Oct 21, 2010)

woodsmaneh! said:


> I have used Co2 for a number of years, my room is 12x10x7 and I use 1 BBQ tank a week. I use CAP controllers and run at 1500ppm. My results have been good, about 150 to 275g more than without Co2 under 1000w, total yield per 1000w is 675. They don't use as much water and ripen about 5 to 9 days early. Resen production looks highter also.


 
thats awesome another question are they hard to set up ???? i mean on controller do u add room dimensions for total ppm to be right ????


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## OZUT (Oct 22, 2010)

You need 3 things...

1- Regulator - They'll cost you about $110 for a single tank
2- CO2 tank - They cost between $120 and $150 and refill is $15 at Airgas. Most hydro stores charge more than other places. But any welding store will have it. Everytime you go to get it filled, they'll take your tank and give you another one...and the cycle goes on and on....If you're worried about them questioning it, don't be. You're in a welding store buying CO2. It's like going to a liquor store and buying beer.
3- CO2 controller - You can go with something that's $200 up to $800. You could even look into exchanging some of your other controllers, adding some money and getting an all in one controller that'll take care of your humidity, in-take, exhaust, CO2....I have a Fuzzy Logic controller and it's awesome. After a couple of hours, it learns how much to pump and how to regulate it so it doesn't over shoot. I set mine at 1,500 and it's never fluctuates more than 15 ppm.

To set up...Attach the regulator to the tank and plug it into the controller. You're done. Your regulator will come with a long hose. Attach that and run it to another part of your room. Tape the other end behind a fan and this will mix the CO2 with the air so you're not just dumping it in 1 section and waiting for it to spread


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## TheOrganic (Oct 22, 2010)

Im looking into Co2, and for a 1000w grow with 4 plants 4x5 screen what would be a good size tank to get at a welding shop so I wouldnt have keep going back? Only going to be using Co2 during flower, veg will only be passive intake from home.


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## TCurtiss (Oct 22, 2010)

I will always chip in and as per Ed Rosenthal you can double your plant size & yield with C02 vs without


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## woodsmaneh! (Oct 22, 2010)

I think you only have 2 choices at a welding shop, small and very big. Some hydro shops carry them.

Dr they are easy to set up just plug and play. Set your Co2 set point at 1500ppm and walk away. Done


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## OZUT (Oct 22, 2010)

They have a couple of sizes...Guaranteed they'll have whatever a hydro shop has....How big is your box/room? A 10 pounder would work fine and depending on how sealed your room is, it should last you about 8-10 days


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## sparkjumper (Oct 23, 2010)

I've heard a lot about how much heat a burner causes to the room temperature,frugin hogwash.I live in Fla and run 3 1K vertizontals(uncooled)in an 8 by 8 room with a 12,500BTU window AC.I have watched the temp gauge many times during burn,a whole shitload of times and if it went up one degree,I was surprised.It normally didnt effect canopy temps at all.First of all you mount your burner high on the wall,and hot air rises.Not too high though you dont want a ceiling fire hazard lol.I can tell you with certainty that a dehumidifier running during the 12 hours of light will raise room temps more than a burner mounted high on each wall!I'm no burner freak nor do I sell them,I just get tired of the overstatements in regard to heat.If its a non-issue for me in Fla running 3 1K uncoolled fixtures I doubt it'll set your room ablaze


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## TheOrganic (Oct 23, 2010)

OZUT said:


> They have a couple of sizes...Guaranteed they'll have whatever a hydro shop has....How big is your box/room? A 10 pounder would work fine and depending on how sealed your room is, it should last you about 8-10 days


Room is 8x10. And will be running a co2 hose throughout the bottom of plants and have it on a timer for 15min 3x a day, and fans will be off for that period also.


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## DrFever (Oct 23, 2010)

OZUT said:


> They have a couple of sizes...Guaranteed they'll have whatever a hydro shop has....How big is your box/room? A 10 pounder would work fine and depending on how sealed your room is, it should last you about 8-10 days


 
my room is 18x12 x 8


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## TCurtiss (Oct 23, 2010)

TheOrganic said:


> Room is 8x10. And will be running a co2 hose throughout the bottom of plants and have it on a timer for 15min 3x a day, and fans will be off for that period also.


You're better off running it through a fan that way it hits all the plants at least that is what has worked for me


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## OZUT (Oct 23, 2010)

A 10lb cylinder will go about 4-5 days in a room that size. You don't want to run the CO2 line through the bottom of your plants. Remember, CO2 is heavier than air so it's going to settle down anyway. You want to hook it up to the back of an oscillating fan so it get mixed with the air and spread over your plants.....There's no reason to turn your fans off during that time. In fact, a lot of people even point a fan towards the floor so it kicks up the CO2....Remember, one of your goals is to have the CO2 circulating in your room and not concentrated in any particular area and the best way to do that is fans moving air around. 

Another important thing to remember with CO2 is you want your temps in the 80-85 degree range....Below that, you won't get optimum results. When you get in that range, your plants breath faster and harder meaning it takes in more CO2. Think of CO2 as steroids. If you work out and shoot up, you need to push much harder or else you're defeating the purpose of roids. Same with CO2...If you supplement it, you also want to push the plants a little harder. Over the 85-88 range, your plants take more CO2 but it's just not as effective, because now you're getting them to a point where the CO2 is helping them stay alive but not necessarily benefiting them.


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## TheOrganic (Oct 24, 2010)

THanks, I was kinda setting up the same set up as greenman in that you tube vid. But I get what your saying about it settling to floor. Do I need to be running 24/7 co2 or just when on flowering lights on. Ive been getting very mixed reviews reading other threads just trying fig up the best efficient setup. thanks again.


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## OZUT (Oct 24, 2010)

Plant's use CO2 24 hours a day. However, when the lights are off, they only use about 10-15% of what they use during lights on. It's such a small amount, that you would be wasting a lot of it....Set your timer to shut it off during the night cycle and you'll push a couple of more days out of your cylinders


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## DrFever (Oct 24, 2010)

I got my room dialed in at 82 degrees only time my temp drops is 18 mins prior to lights on when my exhaust fan kicks in to allow fresh air in
it then drops to 72 degrees. i am thinkin of pushin this time back like 36 mins prior to lights on and dispersing c02 at my 18 min mark prior to lights on 

if i am correct i am hoping that the c02 will bring my temp back up to 80 degree mark not sure how much c02 will bring up heat i will dial it in as i play but plan is to have 1600 ppm in room least 10 mins prior to lights on


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## Tinker Greenly (Oct 24, 2010)

Thanks, this is a very informative post. My question is about the exhaust fan. Sounds like you don't run it all during the light phase?


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## DrFever (Oct 25, 2010)

bringing this back up to the top bump


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## AbsoluteChron (Oct 25, 2010)

Tinker Greenly said:


> Thanks, this is a very informative post. My question is about the exhaust fan. Sounds like you don't run it all during the light phase?


You can't have your exhaust going or else you will vent out all of the co2. If you need to cool your lights you will have to run vented hoods through a dedicated exhaust line, otherwise you are limited to in room fans and AC.


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## Tinker Greenly (Oct 25, 2010)

OK, got it. I'd heard from some supposedly knowledgeable people that you need to inject your co2, let it sit for an hour or two, vent, and then start the cycle again. I guess if you can't have fluctuations of more than 200ppm this would be self defeating. 

What happens when you need to work in your room and you open the door? Seems like you wouldn't even be able to do that without huge ppm fluctuations.


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## OZUT (Oct 25, 2010)

Fluctuation isn't that big of a deal. It you want optimum results, you keep it at 1,500. If it drops, then it drops. No big deal. But if you're going to pump it and exhaust it, that really defeats the purpose of it. I even have my air cooled hoods sealed so my 12 inch fans don't exhaust it through the cracks. Keep in mind that CO2 gets used by the plants. So when you pump some in there, it's not really going to stay in there. That's why a CO2 controller is a really good investment. Mine is a fuzzy logic one that I have set at 1,500 and it stays at 1,500. When it's pumping it in, it doesn't over shoot because it learns how to pump your room instead of shutting off the pump when it reads 1,500. But any good controller will work just fine.


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