# 600w HPS in 1000w Ballast.....



## Oo S0uP oO (Apr 9, 2013)

So I was wondering if any electricians out there could explain to me the mechanics of whether or not one could run a 600w HPS bulb in a 1000w magnetic ballast? I know it sounds like you would be asking for trouble, but from what I understand the ballast would be sending out 1000w but the bulb would only draw the 600w it needed to fire and no more, in essence prolonging the life of the ballast. It seems that outside a grow room setting it is common place to oversize ballasts to their respective bulbs. Ive spoken to a number of old school growers that say they have done this in the past but you know how that goes, hearsay and all. I want to understand the science behind the claim and was hoping for some first hand experience or an informed explanation. thanks.-S0uP


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## thinn (Apr 9, 2013)

A little bit of searching never killed anyone.....


https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/207313-im-here-end-all-about.html


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## Kite High (Apr 10, 2013)

umm...dont do it...and that thread is irrelevant


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## Oo S0uP oO (Apr 10, 2013)

I read that thread. The videos are no longer available and there are no explanations as to why or why not to run the lower wattage bulb on the larger ballast. Thanks for the input though. -S0uP


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## Kite High (Apr 10, 2013)

IMO seems impractical and dangerous


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## Oo S0uP oO (Apr 10, 2013)

Kite High said:


> umm...dont do it...and that thread is irrelevant


Ya I didnt take much away from that thread either... but I do know that cities use 100w MH bulbs with 400w MH ballasts for their street lights...food for thought!

Also isnt there a company that makes a 1000w splitter to run 2 600w lamps off of? What if you were to run only one 600w in the splitter? Isnt that the same thing? Theres no functioning part in the splitter to regulate over current to the bulb? Why would one need the splitter at all if you intended to only run one bulb? Electricians???? -S0uP


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## thinn (Apr 10, 2013)

I guess if the guy has been saying he has been running 400w bulbs in a 1000w ballast, that information is truely irrelevant to the question the OP asked KITE HIGH?

The only way you will get an answer is doing it yourself soup. Report results and enjoy the rep that follows. I can guarantee someone is doing this somewhere. Too many growers without sufficient funds. Good luck on your expedition.

As a side note if I had owned a mag ballast I would give it a shot in an enclosed hood. Worst that I could see happening is the bulb breaking, or failing all together. I just dont think there is enough current to blow the bulb. It might run hotter

Edit.....

Here us another link, I do not know if you have read this one also but people are doing this legitimately. If this isnt enough for you, nothing will satisfy your curiosity besides trying it yourself. 

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/2171-400-watt-bulb-1000-watt-2.html


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## Kite High (Apr 10, 2013)

whatever...happy fires


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## bottletoke (Apr 10, 2013)

yup itll work but get a capacitor and igniter for a 600w lamp....and you wanted to get tricky you could use that same ballast to run a mh lamp too just remove the hps cap and igniter then wire in the mh cap and your all set.
ps: a ballast doesnt send out 1000w, its capable of feeding a load that is drawing that much. if you run a 600w lamp off a 1000w ballast your only consuming 600w.


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## Oo S0uP oO (Apr 10, 2013)

Kite High said:


> whatever...happy fires


With all due respect....Fuck you. If you have no scientific answer for your unfounded opinion keep your fucking mouth shut and maybe you could learn something same as I hope to do. Obviously you have no evidence for your belief besides what youve been told, shit you could be right, but I want to know why? You fucking lemming. Tell me to set my fucking house on fire, asshole.I hope you get cancer. Die.


RIU....Look,on a lighter note my instincts tell me not to stick a 600w bulb in a 1000w ballast BUT I dont think twice about what wattage bulb Im sticking into my desk lamp. I just want to know why it doesn't work? There has got to be a simple explanation as to whether it is or isnt safe to do.-S0uP


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## Figong (Apr 10, 2013)

thinn said:


> I guess if the guy has been saying he has been running 400w bulbs in a 1000w ballast, that information is truely irrelevant to the question the OP asked KITE HIGH?
> 
> The only way you will get an answer is doing it yourself soup. Report results and enjoy the rep that follows. I can guarantee someone is doing this somewhere. Too many growers without sufficient funds. Good luck on your expedition.
> 
> ...


Not enough current to blow the bulb? HPS bulbs are lit with a current -spike-... I'd say there's more than enough to completely bbq a bulb.


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## simisimis (Apr 10, 2013)

It's amazing, it seems such a simple question and none of the forums have one solid answer based on some concrete arguments.
Soup, you cannot compare HID ballast and regular laps like that  Regular bulb is running at AC without any complex parts. CFL has inside ac converted to dc and is a bit more complex, but still it works from the same 110V 60Hz in US and 220V 50Hz in Europe, HID however has capacitor, transformer, ignitor. It is a complex system BUT there's gotta be an answer for this  Hopefully this thread will come up with some decent answer why it can/can't be done.


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## Oo S0uP oO (Apr 10, 2013)

simisimis said:


> It's amazing, it seems such a simple question and none of the forums have one solid answer based on some concrete arguments.
> Soup, you cannot compare HID ballast and regular laps like that  Regular bulb is running at AC without any complex parts. CFL has inside ac converted to dc and is a bit more complex, but still it works from the same 110V 60Hz in US and 220V 50Hz in Europe, HID however has capacitor, transformer, ignitor. It is a complex system BUT there's gotta be an answer for this  Hopefully this thread will come up with some decent answer why it can/can't be done.



Thanks for your input! I know its weird that there are so many conflicting points of view on this. I mean it either IS or ISNT safe and more importantly effective (Lumen output) ...it cant kinda be safe or sometimes work out, right? Its one way or the other. I have been reading extensively to try and satisfy my need for an answer to this question and have come across a high number of people who have said they dont experience any problems when running a lower wattage bulb in a higher wattage ballast but not one who said they burned their house down, or blew up a bulb. Although, 1800 degrees at 50psi is nothing to fuck with so I want an explanation that scientifically puts all arguments to rest. Here is hoping-S0uP


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## thinn (Apr 10, 2013)

Figong said:


> Not enough current to blow the bulb? HPS bulbs are lit with a current -spike-... I'd say there's more than enough to completely bbq a bulb.


Yes, but if what the guys says is true he is only measuring 600 odd watts from the setup. Sort of the idea behind power usage in your home, it will only pull what it needs.


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## simisimis (Apr 10, 2013)

Current will not blow a lamp. Lamp will take as much current (A) as needed. Volts is a different thing. There is a reason why ballast are heating that much. Transformer in there is converting your 110-220V to something else. To what, You have to check on ballast output section. The thing that transformer, as far as my electrical knowledge goes, is providing some current to capacitor and when it gets filled, ignitor discharges it to the lamp. Capacitor is not discharging power depending on the bulb, it discharges the same amount. Maybe at slower rate for smaller bulbs, but if that assumption is right the only reason people were able to have those systems running was because nowadays quality of lamps are better than manufacturer writes it on his specs.
I do not know about ballast in particular, but I used to make DIY stroboscopes for discos and that included soldering, making transformers generate power I need and using capacitor and ignitor for getting those instant flashlights. And if I used bigger capacitors, the light was stronger and it took more time to load and the lamp would go out of service twice faster than on smaller capacitor.


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## Oo S0uP oO (Apr 10, 2013)

^^^^Right thinn, giving the ballast head space that should, in theory, prolong it's life. This is an important issue because if you can safely run smaller lamps AND prolong the life of said ballast it would benefit a great number of people as well as giving versatility to the equipment we already own.-S0uP


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## Figong (Apr 10, 2013)

simisimis said:


> Current will not blow a lamp. Lamp will take as much current (A) as needed. Volts is a different thing. There is a reason why ballast are heating that much. Transformer in there is converting your 110-220V to something else. To what, You have to check on ballast output section. The thing that transformer, as far as my electrical knowledge goes, is providing some current to capacitor and when it gets filled, ignitor discharges it to the lamp. Capacitor is not discharging power depending on the bulb, it discharges the same amount. Maybe at slower rate for smaller bulbs, but if that assumption is right the only reason people were able to have those systems running was because nowadays quality of lamps are better than manufacturer rights it on his specs.
> I do not know about ballast in particular, but I used to make DIY stroboscopes for discos and that included soldering, making transformers generate power I need and using capacitor and ignitor for getting those instant flashlights. And if I used bigger capacitors, the light was stronger and it took more time to load and the lamp would go out of service twice faster than on smaller capacitor.


Perfect, because I tried to entrap someone with that statement and it didn't work..... lol .. Am surprised no one corrected me on it.. the ignitor spikes with voltage, and not current... between 2-5KV.


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## Oo S0uP oO (Apr 10, 2013)

So is the spike from a 1000w capacitor/ignitor combo going to have serious negative effects on a 600w bulb? Enough to make it dangerous? I am not an electrician, in fact I know exactly jack about the sparky trade, but I do consider myself a handy guy and am understanding what your saying as long as you continue to explain it patiently and we can get to a bottom line I think the community would benefit. Thanks again for everyones input!-S0uP


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## simisimis (Apr 10, 2013)

To my understanding when manufacturer makes a ballast for 1000W lamp, it puts one capacitor, and to 600W bulb ballast goes another. Here comes another parameter called 'charge' I don't remember how it's marked in SI system, q maybe. Capacitor stores electrical charge and once triggered it discharges that portion of electricity. Maybe you noticed that when you are trying to make a picture of your plants under hps lamp there stripes appear. Cause it's constantly discharging just a camera are not fast enough to capture all of the discharges as our eyes does. 
You are not discharging 1000W of power to 600W lamp thats for sure, but I believe you are discharging bigger quantities of power at a slower rate. If that's true it will not set the house on fire. It will reduce 600W lamps lifetime. But please note that I did not studied the scheme of the ballast, what exact parts it contain, how exactly everything works in there, I just found this setup working very similar the way stroboscope works, so I gave my assumption.


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## bottletoke (Apr 10, 2013)

I am an electrical technologist and I hold my eelectricians license as well. Did anybody read my previous post? If you need more of an explanation fire away.

Psnly an hps needs an igniter/starter but all hid's require a cap.


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## simisimis (Apr 10, 2013)

bottletoke said:


> I am an electrical technologist and I hold my eelectricians license as well. Did anybody read my previous post? If you need more of an explanation fire away.
> 
> Psnly an hps needs an igniter/starter but all hid's require a cap.


sorry man, I reread your post and only now I understood what you meant )

Anyway the thing is that some ballasts like mine e.g. are sealed and there's no way to disconnect igniter and capacitor and connect another, unless you make DIY ballast with proper wiring caps so it could be easily disconnected and reconnected...

Maybe you can answer what are the consequences of using 1000W igniter and 1000W capacitor with 600W hps lamp? cause the way I see it is either lamp or igniter with capacitor are being phucked in this setup..
Also could you clarify, Igniter is working as a sort of relay unit or like a starter? Or starter is sort of relay unit just used for TL lights? 
Thanks!


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## bottletoke (Apr 10, 2013)

An igniter is just like a starter, its a coil that momentarily connects the high voltage tap from the transformer to the lamp just giving it enough hit to start burning some of the gases. Once the lamp heats up it only needs minimal voltage to maintain.
The lamp is not fused to the ballast so if your lamp is done and you connect a transformer that can push out 1000w to a lamp that could handle 600 the fault will occur at the weakest link, the lamp. So unless you want glass and chunks of molten plasma in your grow room make the igniter and the capacitor the weakest link and save yourself a possible fire.


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## bottletoke (Apr 10, 2013)

Edit: double post.


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## Shankroid (Apr 10, 2013)

I am intrigued by this discussion, and often wondered the same thing myself. If feasible, it could open up many possibilities and options. Will a 250w bulb work in a 600w ballast, a 400w in a 600, etc. There are practical laws of electricity involved, but quite a few differing opinions and a lot of guesses as to will it actually work. Surely SOMONE has actually tried it. Another thing to take in consideration would be the quality of the ballast itself. Lots of people can only afford the cheap Chinese crap like me


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## bottletoke (Apr 10, 2013)

i'm not talking about a digital ballast, they are already manufactured to be dimmable or switchable(mh-hps) and shouldnt be altered. my mods should only be done on a magnetic ballast where the taps are accessible and the caps and ignitors are swap-able.
but i'll say this again, you CAN run a *smaller *lamp in a larger ballast but *not *the other way around. If you choose to run a 250w lamp with a 1000w ballast then you ignitor should be sized to run the lamp you plan on running!


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## Oo S0uP oO (Apr 10, 2013)

bottletoke said:


> i'm not talking about a digital ballast, they are already manufactured to be dimmable or switchable(mh-hps) and shouldnt be altered. my mods should only be done on a magnetic ballast where the taps are accessible and the caps and ignitors are swap-able.
> but i'll say this again, you CAN run a *smaller *lamp in a larger ballast but *not *the other way around. If you choose to run a 250w lamp with a 1000w ballast then you ignitor should be sized to run the lamp you plan on running!



Ignitor _*AND*_ capacitor right??? just to be clear....thanks!-S0uP


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## Shankroid (Apr 10, 2013)

nobody answered the original question presented in this thread, regardless of the conjecture of facts and what seems limited reasoning.


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## simisimis (Apr 11, 2013)

bottletoke said:


> An igniter is just like a starter, its a coil that momentarily connects the high voltage tap from the transformer to the lamp just giving it enough hit to start burning some of the gases. Once the lamp heats up it only needs minimal voltage to maintain.
> The lamp is not fused to the ballast so if your lamp is done and you connect a transformer that can push out 1000w to a lamp that could handle 600 the fault will occur at the weakest link, the lamp. So unless you want glass and chunks of molten plasma in your grow room make the igniter and the capacitor the weakest link and save yourself a possible fire.


Thanks man, this was an answer which I was looking for!



Shankroid said:


> nobody answered the original question presented in this thread, regardless of the conjecture of facts and what seems limited reasoning.


Actually bottletoke answered it and very well.
Can you run a 600W on a 1000W ballast?
No.

What happens if you will do it?
It will run for a while and lamp will stop working earlier than manufacturer said it will.

How it will break? 
Depends, It might only stop working or it could explode all over the room.

1000W Ballasts transformer is capable of easily supporting 600W, however igniter and capacitor need to be changed for proper use of a product cause they are way too strong.

I really cannot think of any better answer to this thread question...


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## Oo S0uP oO (Apr 11, 2013)

I think all should add rep to bottletoke for an informative and well delivered answer to this question. The answer makes perfect sense, Thanks all for contributing to the conversation.-S0uP


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## 19purpleking69 (Sep 19, 2013)

Oo S0uP oO said:


> I read that thread. The videos are no longer available and there are no explanations as to why or why not to run the lower wattage bulb on the larger ballast. Thanks for the input though. -S0uP


 My neighbor is an electrician and he says that a 1000 watt ballast can run bulbs 1000 watts or less. When it comes to HPS/MH bulbs is where you need to be careful. If your ballast doesn't say it can run both types then it can't. There are conversion bulbs but that's another thing. The ballast does NOT push extra watts into a bulb that it can't take. The bulb draws what it needs from the ballast so if you're running a 400 watt or 600 watt bulb on a 1000 watt ballast you are NOT stressing the ballast. In fact, if you never used a 1000 watt bulb I would think the life of your ballast would extend. Common sense is important to have.


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## aapmpmo (Mar 24, 2014)

The open circuit voltage on the secondary of a 1000w ballast is around 430V while the 600w is around 220V. If you don't understand what that means let me make is simple, use the correct bulb with the correct ballast stupid.


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## jaybray (Mar 25, 2014)

Yes it can be done but I would think that you would burn your bulb up faster not pro long your ballast. IMO As long as it fires up.


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## 209 Cali closet grower (Apr 12, 2015)

Thanks for the info.


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## DarthBlazeAnthony (Jun 2, 2015)

Will a 600w light require a ballast?


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## Jay3Lee (Dec 23, 2015)

Kite High said:


> whatever...happy fires


Are you an ELECTRICIAN? NO? Then maybe you should shut your mouth and let someone that actually KNOWS what they are talking about answer the question.. Bottletoke is correct.. To put it in simple terms.. the ballast does not PUSH power to the bulb.. the bulb DRAWS from the ballast. So if the ballast supplies 1000w, but the bulb only draws 600.. your ballast will essentially run at 600 watts.. This only applies with Magnetic ballasts.. and should NOT be attempted with the digital or electronic type... Most digital ballasts are dimmable nowadays anyways.. so this issue never really comes up. Furthermore, you should NEVER use a bulb bigger than the ballast rating in any circumstance!


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## bird mcbride (Dec 23, 2015)

The only problem that I can see is the load factor. Given the fact that the 600 will only be drawing 600 watts, the 1000 watt ballast's voltage will float higher as it is not clamped at the appropriate amperage.

Solution: Get a giant Zener diode.


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## overdose420 (Jan 25, 2020)

Oo S0uP oO said:


> With all due respect....Fuck you. If you have no scientific answer for your unfounded opinion keep your fucking mouth shut and maybe you could learn something same as I hope to do. Obviously you have no evidence for your belief besides what youve been told, shit you could be right, but I want to know why? You fucking lemming. Tell me to set my fucking house on fire, asshole.I hope you get cancer. Die.
> 
> 
> RIU....Look,on a lighter note my instincts tell me not to stick a 600w bulb in a 1000w ballast BUT I dont think twice about what wattage bulb Im sticking into my desk lamp. I just want to know why it doesn't work? There has got to be a simple explanation as to whether it is or isnt safe to do.-S0uP


I've been doing it for 7 years straight...


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## thinn (Jan 26, 2020)

Whoa! Blast from the past. 


overdose420 said:


> I've been doing it for 7 years straight...


Are you referring to the bulb being ran on a larger wattage mag ballast?


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## wrpinacate (Apr 22, 2021)

Shankroid said:


> I am intrigued by this discussion, and often wondered the same thing myself. If feasible, it could open up many possibilities and options. Will a 250w bulb work in a 600w ballast, a 400w in a 600, etc. There are practical laws of electricity involved, but quite a few differing opinions and a lot of guesses as to will it actually work. Surely SOMONE has actually tried it. Another thing to take in consideration would be the quality of the ballast itself. Lots of people can only afford the cheap Chinese crap like me


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## wrpinacate (Apr 22, 2021)

So many comments and guesses.. but they have not actually tried it... a 1000 watt hpsl (high pressure sodium lamp) needs 90 to 100 microfarad capacitor parallel to the line and neutral.. (three paralleled connected 30 microfarad makes 90 microfarad) so a 400 watt needs less.. then commonly an ignitor has a capacity of 250 to 1000 watts.. no problem with that.
ballasted lamps last longer than self ballasted lamps
Yes, it will work... Ive done it and tried it . when it reach it usefull life it will be busted just like other hpsl.


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## xtsho (Apr 22, 2021)

I have an old 1000 watt magnetic ballast. If I ever use it again I'll run 1000 watt bulbs with it. Why would you run a 600 watt bulb with a piece of equipment designed to run a 1000 watt bulb? These are not dimmable ballasts.

I know this is an old thread.


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