# Looking for Fellow Thinkers



## Michael Sparks (May 19, 2011)

I am trying to find people interested in forming a tight knit group of like minded thinkers, those that are inspired to do and create, willingness to come together and work as a team would be a key component to succeeding at whatever the collective focus may be, experience in varying fields would be helpful but not required, passion for learning and growing is expected. In addition the drive to positively motivate others when distracted. Not to forget the ability to have fun and be social and ease into such a setting, willingness to shed the social disorders created by society and be the self that was long forgotten of undiscovered.


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## LordWinter (May 19, 2011)

Lofty goals there, pardner. Just what goals might you have in mind for the collective focus of such a group, and what kind of experiences are you looking for?


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## Michael Sparks (May 19, 2011)

well what in your opinion makes or defines such a proposal as 'lofty' 

any experiences, left open ended for the purpose as to not discourage interested people to inquire


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## ThaConspiracy (May 19, 2011)

please provide more details


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## veggiegardener (May 19, 2011)

Such a group requires motivation. You need a carrot. Without that, collapse is inevitable. 

An example of this is the fate of 99% of communes formed in the late sixties. Once the newness/novelty wore off, only a clear thinking few ended up doing all the work.

Few people will bust their asses to support the stoned out, lazy majority.

You might consider reading "Walden II" for some insight into the difficulties involved in forming such a group.


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## Pipe Dream (May 20, 2011)

It all sounds like a bad job advertisement.


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## 420forever1289 (May 20, 2011)

Michael Sparks said:


> well what in your opinion makes or defines such a proposal as 'lofty'
> 
> any experiences, left open ended for the purpose as to not discourage interested people to inquire


im listening...but what was your proposal??? all I got out of it was you were looking for a few like minded people who are interested in growing and learning new things...thats y i think were all here...if u have more to add ill be interested


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## Michael Sparks (May 20, 2011)

well... who has some ideas ? 

I mean i have a few concepts as to what my ideal setting would be, i am simply attempting to find people that are thinking the same things, essentially starting some 'commune' or a co-op of some sort where people would be living together, sharing common interests, working together ect..


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## veggiegardener (May 20, 2011)

Do some reading. Formulate a plan. Sell it to potential members.

Over at Overgrow.com, about 8-9 years ago, a guy posted a picture of a Caribbean island for sale for $9 million. Existing housing for at least 30 adults. Hundreds of acres of cleared land for agriculture. A desire to form a co-op and grow a LOT of weed. It didn't go any where because interested parties uniformly lacked the money to buy in for a down payment.

It was a fun exercise in planning, though.

The big problem was growing where it is illegal.

Not to mention, pirates.


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## jesus of Cannabis (May 20, 2011)

so you think you can find the like minded thinkers on a marijuana grow forum?

Isnt that the reason most of us are here anyway? Because we are like minded?

Thats like going to a pool and asking who wants to get wet.


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## Michael Sparks (May 21, 2011)

Not necessarily, everyone is in their own disposition even though we are all collectively here, we are out of touch with what 'here' even means.. I am simply trying to rally like minded thinkers in hopes to come together and unite aside from our own differences and past experiences.. there are those of us out there that want to build and contribute, use their knowledge for a greater purpose and gain that gratification that you can only achieve once something you believed in was accomplished. so as some of us will joke and mock such a concept, we (as a majority) want basically the same things, to be useful and content with what we are doing and not resent the act of doing something and learning for a wasted purpose. I mean my life has meaning and i am not going to let it be wasted in a system that i do not agree with. I just want the best for all so take that for what it is.


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## ThaConspiracy (May 23, 2011)

A picture is worth a thousand words


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## gypsygreen (May 23, 2011)

I would like to join, but only if the ratio of female to male is greater than 2:1.  I am self sustaining for the most part now, except I have to sell a lb or two of pot each year to pay my taxes and electric bill. A few acres of gardens, half a dozen chickens, and 2 teenage sons is all I have to offer.


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## white rasta (May 23, 2011)

hi there it sounds like u have alot to offer. the plant looks amazing. i have just put some photos up of my girls take a look let me no wot u think. how do u grow ur girls?.


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## gypsygreen (May 23, 2011)

white rasta said:


> how do u grow ur girls?.


Put seed in soil...wait 6 months. Seriously I just soak seed over night in water, plant in soil* about 1/2" deep and top once @ the 4th or 5th node. But this thread is about starting a commune of sorts. I know a few folks who have done a similar thing, they get together and camp out in the national forest from Memeorial day to labor day. They move their site every two weeks like 20 feet so they arnt breaking any squatter laws. they hunt, fish, grow, and party all summer. One of them is a local school teacher. How cool is that?


*made from grass clippings, horse shit, and coffee grounds(helps balance PH to a perfect 6.9 ). Then I mix with equal parts soil from my veggie garden.


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## euthanatos93420 (May 23, 2011)

I'm a cook + jack of all trades! sign me up. Also with the mormon style f:m shit.


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## Carne Seca (May 23, 2011)

This doesn't involve giving you all my possessions and moving to Guyana does it? Also, would your last name be Jones by any chance? AND are you partial to cyanide kool-aid?


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## OregonMeds (May 23, 2011)

Well a couple people have mentioned self sufficiency and living off the grid in this thread, if that were the case I'd be interested in participating provided we aren't required to give up all worldly possesions to the cult, and drink the poison kool aid to take a ride on the dark planet.

I've been looking into several options:
[youtube]yYGKn12Weu4[/youtube] <---Wood Gas, lots of power. Talk about ideal for a grow op too....
[youtube]xBc_IaEhvCY[/youtube]


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## Michael Sparks (May 24, 2011)

WOW..this was not a tread looking for cynical individuals. I appreciate those of you that have replied in seriousness I'd stated that those would mock and joke, I am serious and perturbed by the lack of seriousness and the flagrant disrespect, to be honest and true with yourselves is not difficult, i mean who the hell do you have to impress anyway you are behind a computer, and unless you are like Ernst or Kevin Murphy that reveal their identity, no one knows who you are, so be fair and true to yourself. 
I see the world being destroyed around us all and we (as a whole) just perpetuate this destruction fueled by greed and ignorance for a fiat money system.. i believe in herb and healing (that is the main reason why i got involved in this forum), those of you that are knowledgeable in growing and learning are whom i am looking to commit to such an experience, I do not need those that are distracted but their own greed, I welcome everyone, as growth is possible for everyone if one is willing to commit to growing for the good and not for thy self. so prior to replying think deeply, concentrate and reflect as to what you mean to say not what attention you hope to get.


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## kevin murphy (May 24, 2011)

im true to myself and its my real name...and agree with what your sayin pal..


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## BarnBuster (May 24, 2011)

Count me in and as mystifiedbongs said: I'm all ears.


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## Jeffdt1966 (May 24, 2011)

I have always wanted to live off the grid ... but it seems so undoable for me .. I have a wife , kids , animals , a home thats payed for, a 20 yr. career , and tons of responscibility . I think thats why I dream of self sufficancy and no bills .... lol ... but in reality I know what happened to the hippie comunes with the earlier post being correct . There would be 10 percent doing all the work and 90 percent sitting on thier asses staying stoned and enjoying the fruits of the 10 percent . Figure a way around this and you may have something ... if not your doomed to just repeat history.....


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## Michael Sparks (May 24, 2011)

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HKvolbmGO4


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## kevin murphy (May 24, 2011)

so true so true....


Jeffdt1966 said:


> I have always wanted to live off the grid ... but it seems so undoable for me .. I have a wife , kids , animals , a home thats payed for, a 20 yr. career , and tons of responscibility . I think thats why I dream of self sufficancy and no bills .... lol ... but in reality I know what happened to the hippie comunes with the earlier post being correct . There would be 10 percent doing all the work and 90 percent sitting on thier asses staying stoned and enjoying the fruits of the 10 percent . Figure a way around this and you may have something ... if not your doomed to just repeat history.....


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## gfreeman (May 24, 2011)

the carrot thing, i think thats funny that would have to wave motivation in front of somebodys face in order for them to want to change things. those kind of individuals i feel wouldnt be a big help anywho. i mean having to have something other than the urge to change the way the current state of the world is, to motivate you to do what you feel is right, is lazy. and greedy. i mean, i can see the hypocrisys in the world we live in. i can see the many problems we have. just yesterday i read an article about a couple getting fined 96,000$ for selling more than $500 dollars worth of RABBITS in a year. yes gentlemen, selling more than $500 worth of rabbits a year is AGAINST our LAW. now if something like this doesnt give you the motivation to chnge things. then you my friend should find anouther thread. 
we have a harmless plant illegalized, which was illegalized when racism was a big thing, so its kinda one ofthose "the nigs and spics smoke that shit, not us white folk. ILLEGALIZE IT." true story, do yer research.
YET tabacco. LEGAL.. ALcohol. LEGAL. addictive, highly lethal, opiates get sold legally thru the big pharmacuetical companys. but pot. ILLEGAL. ugh. so fed up ith this and sorry to rant on yer thread but FUCK people need to wake up and grow some balls. im tired of our government saying we're in control when in truth only the rich run this country.


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## Michael Sparks (May 24, 2011)

the only reason history repeated itself is becuase hate is perpetuated and love is ignored we are fixated in the set system, we thrive off dysfunction and ignorance, offer a difference to the schematic with empathy and compassion, overlooking all the past mistakes and acknowledging that a difference can be made, any moment of the day, everyday we awake, we can choose to take and make a different path, it is the comfort we have set ourselves in that hinder our ability to make the change that is necessary, controlled by fear unwilling to make the difference. though i do not hate those that are misguided i am simply here to make light of the possibility and help those that seek help


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## mugan (May 24, 2011)

am all ears friend, as long as i don't have to move


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## gfreeman (May 24, 2011)

i think in all seriousness, your not going to find verymuch seriousness here. lol. talk is one thing, and for those who dont have this concept burning deep within there hearts, there most likely just here to hear. to listen, to merely observe, perhaps contemplate, but in the end, they will do nothing. for this doesnt bother them like it might bother us. this is why things dont change. some of us have this burning inside, others have ' more important' shit to do. <- this statement not meant to degrade this thread, just not everyone is in a position to take a stance. most are in a position of either sitting on there ass, or ass up in the air hold there ankles saying... its not that bad.... 

i'd rather be the dick or the asshole, than a vagina.


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## Michael Sparks (May 24, 2011)

@gfreeman what you are attempting to convey is not really getting across, i understand what you mean but as that is not going to help this argument/debate i am not looking for those that want to debate or argue just that want a change to occur and are willing to shape it and be a part of that change, there is no need to be vulgar or to demean anyone.

We are all misguided, it is a result of the world we have created and perpetuate in a time in which we were created, our existence is one to behold not to take for granted. 

You can believe in 'the end' and hope for a brighter day but when all is said and done don't you want to look back and smile and feel the accomplishments you were a part of? 
embrace hope to create a change not hope for others to do what you want, we are all a part of this world, it can be the demise of us all or a utopia (use your imagination) We are the ones that shape what outcome we hope and wish for.


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## Carne Seca (May 24, 2011)

Michael Sparks said:


> WOW..this was not a tread looking for cynical individuals. I appreciate those of you that have replied in seriousness I'd stated that those would mock and joke, I am serious and perturbed by the lack of seriousness and the flagrant disrespect, to be honest and true with yourselves is not difficult, i mean who the hell do you have to impress anyway you are behind a computer, and unless you are like Ernst or Kevin Murphy that reveal their identity, no one knows who you are, so be fair and true to yourself.
> I see the world being destroyed around us all and we (as a whole) just perpetuate this destruction fueled by greed and ignorance for a fiat money system.. i believe in herb and healing (that is the main reason why i got involved in this forum), those of you that are knowledgeable in growing and learning are whom i am looking to commit to such an experience, I do not need those that are distracted but their own greed, I welcome everyone, as growth is possible for everyone if one is willing to commit to growing for the good and not for thy self. so prior to replying think deeply, concentrate and reflect as to what you mean to say not what attention you hope to get.


I have three examples for you:



Reverend Jim Jones and the "Guyana Tragedy"
Heaven's Gate
Waco, Texas
Anyone that decides in an anonymous online forum to give up everything and follow an anonymous online poster strictly on what he says? Is a fool. And don't use that word lightly. Only a fool would put themselves in such a situation. 

I'm sorry if you feel that those who challenge your worldview are trolls. There are far too many examples of similar ideologies ending in terrible tragedy. Isolationist communities are not the answer. That has been proven throughout history.

If you want to make a change then start in your neighborhood. Go green. Grow your own. Even urban environments can be transformed into lush rooftop gardens or empty lot gardens, even window box gardens. There are multiple examples that are available to anyone. I have been growing my own vegetables and herbs since childhood. Comes from a Mormon upbringing. 

There are plenty of ways of "going off the grid" without actually living in a Yurt with an outhouse for a bathroom. That way you can be an example to your neighbors and help the environment. 

Call me a cynic if you like but I really get suspicious of anyone that tries to recruit others to give up everything and move to the sticks. That kind of action requires sacrifice and in most cases there is no going back. Especially when you spend your life savings in a scheme that never pans out. 

What are you going to do for these people that follow you when it doesn't work out? Throw them to the wolves (hopefully not literally)? It's going to cost a lot to set up a system like that. Where is the money coming from? Oh wait... that's why you need followers.

No thanks. I'll continue to make changes where I am now. Several of my neighbors have followed suit and are growing their own herbs and vegetables. Hell, one of them even has a Llama to harvest their own wool to make clothes. It's the cutest damn thing.


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## gfreeman (May 24, 2011)

im not trying to argue. perhaps debate. but vulgar, i apoligize.

i just feel passionately about the state of things, and i get where your coming from. i just dont think being a passive optimist will help. these things will not change until we take a stand. and by stand i mean getting up and doing something. 

I feel like although there are lots of people who want this. no one has the passion or will power to actually do anything about it. and those who do get looked down upon for being different. for wanting change. like your signiture says, at first its blasphemy. 

but then again what are you trying to convey? that we should join together and do something? but what? what is there to do that hasnt been done already? perhaps take a different approach to educate? i mean in a society that cares little about its education, its children, its future, how on earth will e be able to convince the masses of change? 

perhaps we should just buy some land, build a compound, grow our on food and educate our youth the way we think is right? ofcoarse doing this on US soil will be hard. especially if you want your beloved buddha there. i think change starts instead from the top down from the bottom up. we need people to understand that our government is doing it wrong. that the administration needs a overhaul. until then being anything other than a silent activist is ill advised.


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## Michael Sparks (May 24, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> *i just feel passionately about the state of things, and i get where your coming from. i just dont think being a passive optimist will help. these things will not change until we take a stand. and by stand i mean getting up and doing something.
> *


As do i, which is the basis of starting this thread. however only positive change can occur when a calm relaxed demeanor is conscientiously practiced. 


gfreeman said:


> *but then again what are you trying to convey? that we should join together and do something? but what? what is there to do that hasnt been done already? perhaps take a different approach to educate? i mean in a society that cares little about its education, its children, its future, how on earth will e be able to convince the masses of change? *


Well, what i hope is inferred from this is, thinking that we are all able to do something, we all have special abilities and we are all able to learn new skills and to teach what we know. What hasn't been continued is to commit to such a change that is beneficial to all involved, there needs to be a reform of many things in today's world but i am not trying to change the world only to put somethings in perspective that most weren't pondering upon previously, the society we are all a part of is greedy too much that is capitalistic in nature is commonplace and it ultimately separates us.


gfreeman said:


> *perhaps we should just buy some land, build a compound, grow our on food and educate our youth the way we think is right? ofcoarse doing this on US soil will be hard. especially if you want your beloved buddha there. i think change starts instead from the top down from the bottom up. we need people to understand that our government is doing it wrong. that the administration needs a overhaul. until then being anything other than a silent activist is ill advised. *


Land is all around, doing so in the u.s. wouldn't be difficult (although i am not opposed to outside the states) 
if i suppose i was concerned about the fictitious laws regarding herb and plants then perhaps i would take that into consideration.
we are all able to wake up and do something different everyday in every moment. 


i couldn't agree more, you hit on a lot key points +rep


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## euthanatos93420 (May 24, 2011)

I'm all for it. Like I said I got skills. I'm also a thinker. I was thinking that a mutli-faceted power generation with battery supply would work. Liek they said don't go all cult and it's good. it should use tech to create society and reject the bullshit. Man doesn't need hate to meet the 4th kingdom. I'm currently building an exercise bike from salvaged alternators and reversed electric motors to built a power generating winter exercise tool.

Also there are laws about small houses that can avoid corporate taxes designed to create yesterday's housing mzarket inflation bubble (and tommorows college loan bubble). 

These involve mobile homes/small houses. One can be legal, pay taxes and stay off the grid.


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## euthanatos93420 (May 24, 2011)

sacrifice is love. Voluntary is optional.


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## kevin murphy (May 25, 2011)

like that so true....


euthanatos93420 said:


> sacrifice is love. Voluntary is optional.


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## mugan (May 25, 2011)

ok so some one needs to let me know exactly where this tread is going am lost


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## seed slaya (May 25, 2011)

hah i was kind of interested, but all the comments are so offputting
pce bro good luck,


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## Stoney McFried (May 25, 2011)

Michael Sparks said:


> I am trying to find people interested in forming a tight knit group of like minded thinkers, those that are inspired to do and create, willingness to come together and work as a team would be a key component to succeeding at whatever the collective focus may be, experience in varying fields would be helpful but not required, passion for learning and growing is expected. In addition the drive to positively motivate others when distracted. Not to forget the ability to have fun and be social and ease into such a setting, willingness to shed the social disorders created by society and be the self that was long forgotten of undiscovered.


Sounds like you wanna play Dungeons and Dragons. I'll be the bearded female dwarf berserker with Tourettes. And we're gonna be playing nothing newer than second edition. Roll a D20!


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## veggiegardener (May 25, 2011)

A friend and a bunch of his buddies hit on a plan that seems to be working. One guy owns 11 acres east of LA that he made available to his friends. It has a small home, a good well, generators and tanks kept full of diesel and gas. Several acres are devoted to gardens. There's a shop where members pursue various hobbies/projects. There's food enough stored to keep a dozen old farts(the members are mostly retired and in their 60's) fed for more than a year. They also all own weapons and have stored a LOT of ammunition. Orange County deputies tend to visit a lot because they enjoy the conversation. The central idea is, this is a safe haven if the shit hits the fan.

This works because all the participants have money, and nobody is required to do more than they want. These guys all WANT to do what they're doing.

AND

Nobody has to "pay dues", ot accept the authority of a "leader".


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## SciÎµncÎµ (May 25, 2011)

This is very relevant to my interests. Send me a PM with more detail's if you'd like. I may not get around to checking this thread again due to the likelyhood of hater's flaming it into nonexistence. This site has a LOT of quality grower's and information. But the atmosphere is a lot less serious than some. Hell, it's the internet so you can't expect much. Anyways, would love to hear from you.


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## euthanatos93420 (May 25, 2011)

Ok, I'm not sure this guy was serious to begin with. He doesn't seem to be responding to the positive replies and only to the haters. Bad sign right off the bat. I think about this shit a lot myself and I think I can throw out a few ideas here.

1. Medical state -> every has/gets a card. Gotta keep the operation legal.
2. No cult status. No one should be required to sign over/give up all their worldly possesions.
3. Do need a community area though. Maybe we could steal a church or some shit.
4. What veggiegardener said


Stoney McFried said:


> Sounds like you wanna play Dungeons and Dragons. I'll be the bearded female dwarf berserker with Tourettes. And we're gonna be playing nothing newer than second edition. Roll a D20!


 White Wolf>TSR M:tA (oWoD) ftw


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## euthanatos93420 (May 25, 2011)

IKR? Wouldn't that shit be epic? LIke fucking Darren Brown!


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## SciÎµncÎµ (May 25, 2011)

Well, I don't see any other option other than getting our cult grow in motion. Lmao


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## veggiegardener (May 25, 2011)

I don't have a lot to add. 

I stopped considering a serious group effort after learning a lot more about human nature.

My friend's situation benefits from the fact that one person owns the property and doesn't live on it. It is his personal playground, and he's chosen his playmates, carefully.

A benevolent dictatorship might be the only viable framework for such an effort. Because no one pays "dues" but merely finances the pursuit of their own interests, If someone is unhappy, he just wouldn't come back. From what I've heard, such things haven't occurred, yet.

Sooooo....

Buy a piece of property, and start picking playmates?


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## euthanatos93420 (May 25, 2011)

Well Religion used to be an effective binding tool. Now productive hobbies are but the profitability of growing can threaten to destabalize any group. You gotta be able to read people. If you're confidant in your 'psychic' abilities and by that I do not mean some new age hippie witch bullshit, but real human electromagnetic fields and sensitivities for detecting people outofsync with themselves.


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## LordWinter (May 25, 2011)

euthanatos93420 said:


> Well Religion used to be an effective binding tool. Now productive hobbies are but the profitability of growing can threaten to destabalize any group. You gotta be able to read people. If you're confidant in your 'psychic' abilities and by that I do not mean some new age hippie witch bullshit, but real human electromagnetic fields and sensitivities for detecting people outofsync with themselves.


Reading people doesn't have to imply psychic talent. Body language and choice of words give away just as much of a person's intentions, and thoughts, as their energies.


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## SciÎµncÎµ (May 26, 2011)

I think it depends on the way you perceive it consciously. A lot of what goes on when making prejudices (prejudgement, not some racist bullshit) happens behind the scenes in your subconscious. So there's no doubt some unexplainable factors when you let yourself read someone. But it's not magic. Shit, chemistry was considered "magic" when it was less understood.

So regardless of whether or not you think it's a psychic "power", or keen observation, it's the same thing.

IMHO


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## Michael Sparks (May 26, 2011)

http://youtu.be/2HKvolbmGO4
http://youtu.be/_i8wbWryB90
http://youtu.be/4vXt7gWDZdM
http://youtu.be/4vXt7gWDZdM
http://youtu.be/XmxJxPDkuGw


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## euthanatos93420 (May 26, 2011)

and? several people have cast itnerest and you're leaving us hanging for talk radio show speech. Most of us here are already familiar with that shit.


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## Michael Sparks (May 26, 2011)

Dude, what are you talking about "leaving you hanging" i was simply looking for like minded people, how we go from here is a mutual decision, i have started what i wanted, you cannot think that i am only doing this online.. I go out to the streets and meet random people everyday and share a message, if they are receptive an interest is present which is the support, what they are doing to spread the message is the same that i have done, by just talking to someone they wouldn't have otherwise. If you want to join up do so, everyone is capable of doing something, i do not just sit on the computer but when i do i am learning and expressing, a small portion of what makes up who i am, that is something we all have lost touch with, what it means to be ourselves and not be scared, to be social and share experiences with others.
With regards to the comment about the talk radio speech show, i am glad it exists because there are those that have never heard such a point of view expressed by someone which is ultimately how we learn from one another. if you are frustrated by the lack of forward momentum and would like to be moving with haste then participate in the ways you are able, but subside your doubt and worries and stay confident and focused.


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## euthanatos93420 (May 26, 2011)

I think he said "that's up to you, I'm just running around te internet starting shit I can't finish."


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## Carne Seca (May 26, 2011)

I guess when he said he was looking for fellow thinkers he meant people that think exactly like him. Other thinkers need not apply. David Koresh had a similar mind-set.


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## euthanatos93420 (May 26, 2011)

One of my ex's said I looked like Koresh every time I buy one of those cheap not-quite-aviators from the dollar tree. Saves me a bundle because I keep getting punched in the face by the clintons for some reason.


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## veggiegardener (May 26, 2011)

Until today, I hadn't seen the documentary, "Blind Spot". It covers most of the issues that I've become concerned(scared to death) over. I hop that those of you with access to Netflix take the time to watch it.

I have pretty much decided to discuss the purchase of some acreage with my family, such as my friend is using. Together, we should be able to cover costs. My experience includes many of the skills required to maintain a subsistence living on 10-20 acres for my family. I'll tack on the rest, as needed. Books are my friend. If the poop hits the air mover, the Internet will be the first thing to go.

I've always tried to be pessimistic about the future, but over the years, have found my disastrous expectations optimistic. Things ALWAYS turn out worse than expected.(When Dick Cheney was telling the American public that the invasion of Iraq would cost less than $50 billion, I predicted a $1 trillion.(Early 2003, before "Shock and Awe") It is approaching $2 Trillion.

I'm continuously surprised by how few people take the coming problems seriously. Particularly young adults. Granted, they haven't the span of years to see how far our quality of life has deteriorated.

The Chinese have an old curse. "May you live in interesting times." 

What parts of history are interesting? Wars, Plagues, Revolutions, Holocaust, Natural Disasters and bad Accidents come to mind.

I think mankind has thoroughly cursed itself.

If you think I'm overly pessimistic, remember, over the last 40 years of trying to foresee the future, I've never once been proven to be Pessimistic. I doubt the trend will reverse itself, any time soon.


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## Michael Sparks (May 27, 2011)

Really ? that is not what i implied what so ever, @Carne what is your basis to associate me with those 'types' of people? we are all the same in so many respects but to direct this in relation to what some have done in the past, your ignorance is not surprising, to have never met me but gauge who i am in your mind from a few paragraphs. I am motivated for the better, a difference that will benefit everyone involved, a change you do not have to be a part thought you are still welcomed. 

Skepticism is a thing of distrust, something ingrained in oneself over time. Grow up, live the life you have always wanted, not the one you were told to want.


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## euthanatos93420 (May 27, 2011)

Michael Sparks said:


> ...gauge who i am in your mind from a few paragraphs.


Lets see here, you ignore anyone who is interested in hearing more and only respnd to haters.

I say you're full of shit.


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## Michael Sparks (May 27, 2011)

what make me full of shit exactly ? those of you, that are like minded, conceive this as a way to gain support, those that are opposed to being social this is a focus for me, as they are stubborn, deep inside they want the same thing (as we all want) but are caught in fear, stricken with doubt.. I understand your frustration, but take that energy and guide it toward a passion of your own, don't let it be wasted.


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## euthanatos93420 (May 27, 2011)

I think I speak for every participant in this thread when I say we were expecting you to start some shit about a hippie style commune grow op. I even threw out a few good suggesting for getting a theoretical foundation for a model of making it happen. You're full of shit because you post this thread while lacking any apparent interest in making it happen. Seriously man, fuckin lame. And I was even gonna work with you on it. But no, you gotta go play with the haters like a noob. LOL


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## Mort Fink (May 27, 2011)

Nothing makes you full of shit. You say your trying to find like minded people in that case you must narrow it down, have a clear plan with set goals and a working force. The exact plan is what will attract the people and let people know your looking for the same thing and goals.


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## veggiegardener (May 30, 2011)

euthanatos93420 said:


> I think I speak for every participant in this thread when I say we were expecting you to start some shit about a hippie style commune grow op. I even threw out a few good suggesting for getting a theoretical foundation for a model of making it happen. You're full of shit because you post this thread while lacking any apparent interest in making it happen. Seriously man, fuckin lame. And I was even gonna work with you on it. But no, you gotta go play with the haters like a noob. LOL


Having been involved in many such discussions, I had no huge expectations.

The difficulty with the topic is that it involves people.

This is a learning experience for the OP and hopefully those who choose to participate in the discussion.

Flaming is just childish and counterproductive.

Instead, why not brainstorm the idea, and see if serious interest can be inspired?

It is a fascinating subject.


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## OregonMeds (May 30, 2011)

I'm watching the thread loosely, occasionally, just waiting for the haters to walk away and constructive talk to begin. I've been getting up to speed on sustainability and alternative energy sources etc. How to build your own generators, how to power them with wood, etc.

I see what's coming...


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## euthanatos93420 (May 30, 2011)

Yeah I already do soapmaking/biodiesel. Composting. Mushroom Farming (edibles). And Beer Brewing.


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## OregonMeds (May 30, 2011)

I'm interested in all that, all new to me. Also having never been a vegetarian and always eating canned veggies I'm lost as to what's best for an indoor survival food garden, that's the first info I'd love some links on. I don't have a clue what to do for a balanced diet on veggies alone, where to even find that kind of info when it pertains to limited space and hopefully fast turn around time, or as close to it as possible.


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## fjkirk (May 30, 2011)

Any society would be deemed to make the same mistakes if God was allowed to flourish..

Society build on ethics and sustainability has to be vegitarian..and stoned..probably..


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## OregonMeds (May 30, 2011)

I live in a city, we have no legal option nor do I have space to raise food animals. I wish I could, I'm a carnivore.

I can't expect to be able to grow outdoors since it would be too limited by my poor climate and the seasons and open to theft or mold or fungus or other issues. 

My only option for self sufficient living is to grow whatever food I can in my garage as efficiently as possible using the lights and everything I previously grew weed with.


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## Michael Sparks (May 30, 2011)

Sorry guys, like i had stated i am looking for like minded thinkers, as we all think in similar ways (not to get into psychology) i will narrow down what i imply by "like minded thinkers", how about this! you like the idea or concept i am on and would like to join me on a path, send me a friend invite, this way we can all be more acquainted and interested in those that have taken interest, and to those of you that are interested but are weary to join into discussion just continue to drop in and see what progress has been made, and those that have ideas of a potential direction to take don't be shy to post. after all this takes team work. I am a bit busy and i do not make a point to log into riu as much as i should but lets all stay focused that are dedicated to such a direction.


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## veggiegardener (May 30, 2011)

You might encourage discussion by making a list of what you don't want. (Religious nuts/computer zombies?)


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## Jeff1022 (May 31, 2011)

Hi I'm Jeff, Granted I am new but I am more than willing to work with you and our team in any projects that can be of any benefit to us. I have so much to learn & I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have been smokin since 1962 and have always loved it, now I am finally growing and it is a passion with me, LOL I talk to my babies like they are my kids!
Blessings to all,
Jeff


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## Hydrotech364 (May 31, 2011)

I ran into some Zendik Farm Tribe guys in 1990,San Diego.I think that was the last three.


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## [email protected] (May 31, 2011)

I like you r concept but I do not understand what you are expecting to do ?


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## euthanatos93420 (May 31, 2011)

I couldn't do without meat. I don't think theres anything about ethics that prevents one from eating meat. How one dies isn't nearly as important as how one lives. Treating animals with respect regardless of their function is essential to living with a sense of ethical identity that respects one's environment. What one eats defines the sort of lifestyle of an animal that one supports.

It's always been my frustration with asinine vegan philosophy. By abstaining from eating and buying meat you are not discouraging the industrial farming of animals. Rather it is a choice, a vote, made with money between industrially farm animals and those with freedom, environment and attention that you are abstaining from.


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## fjkirk (May 31, 2011)

Yes I agree there's nothing unethical about eating meat..Its killing I struggle with ethically, "If there's an alternative food source, How one dies, is important if your getting your throat cut, I'm sure, some should eat meat tho, buy for my daughter, it important that an animal lives well, but I buy responsibly and local, I just cant guarantee it died well..
I don't eat meat due to factory style farming and industrial scale slaughter, your analogy may be true, possibly, but who to trust..I think in regards to the thread, I think I was loosely trying to making a point about violence and killing and god and sustainability in relation to starting again or creating a new community, year zero type thing..as I wonder..sometimes, if that's what the world needs, so your right, people need to eat meat. Just not me.


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## veggiegardener (May 31, 2011)

When discussing the ethical aspects eating flesh, I ask myself how many cattle would there be in the world if we didn't breed them for food? Bison would push them into near extinction in a few centuries. Domestic breeds pay a small price for the privilege of a pampered existence before an easy death, compared to being torn to pieces by wolves.


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## grannybonger (May 31, 2011)

you's guy's are gettin off topic, think.

I think our weed world is a mess, the biggest being the medical card. Why, why, why do these people give their names and addresses to a bunch of feds that are just going to bust them? After they shut the dispensaries down, of course, sure saves them alot of work. Don't even register, I never will. 

Wait until you hear about the seed scam. 

Geez, one guy is now looking for a caregiver (dealer) after he gets his card. Like, did this guy get a card just because he thought he could buy some dope from a caregiver, instead of a regular dispensary?


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## fjkirk (Jun 1, 2011)

Bison? ..Wolves..? wtf? Medical cards, Not here in the UK..

Animal farms produce huge quantities of greenhouse gases third-world countries could ease their hunger crisis with the widespread adoption of vegetarianism huge resources and calories that could be used for hungry humans are wasted in the production of meat..animals already consume more than half of the world&#8217;s crops and animal consumption of crops is expected to increase up to 50% we need to reduce our meat consumption in order to prevent or slow or down climate change.
So its a case that you might enjoy eating meat its not sustainable and uses far to much of the worlds resources so people "will eventually have to reduce the amount of meat they eat. 
Farmers should stop rearing meat and start growing Hemp..


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## veggiegardener (Jun 1, 2011)

Northern Europeans, as a group, don't thrive on a vegan/vegetarian diet. Too many generations eating meat. Our digestive systems have evolved to eat flesh. In the past, I knew several vegans. They were always catching some sort of virus, and looked undernourished.

I purchase beef by the 1/2. Grown organically. Very lean, tender and DELICIOUS. 

BTW, people who derive their protein from legumes fart a LOT, just like cattle.


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## euthanatos93420 (Jun 1, 2011)

fjkirk said:


> Farmers should stop rearing meat and start growing Hemp..


 Rediculous. Where would they get the fertalizer from? Controled composting that extracts methane from animal waste, converts it to fuel and prevents it from becoming a 'greenhouse gas' in the atmosphere is what is needed.


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## fjkirk (Jun 1, 2011)

The Greenhouse gas is not all expelled from there butt..its the production and transport of feed and animals around the globe..the water that is used, the effort of making and transporting the feed which is unhealthy for the planet and not sustainable in the long term..

*"Northern Europeans, as a group, don't thrive on a vegan/vegetarian diet. Too many generations eating meat. Our digestive systems have evolved to eat flesh. In the past, I knew several vegans. They were always catching some sort of virus, and looked undernourished"
Utter tosh mate..you try eating nothing but meat..human needs a balanced diet and what protein you get from meat can be sourced elsewhere. 

*


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## veggiegardener (Jun 3, 2011)

fjkirk said:


> The Greenhouse gas is not all expelled from there butt..its the production and transport of feed and animals around the globe..the water that is used, the effort of making and transporting the feed which is unhealthy for the planet and not sustainable in the long term..
> 
> *"Northern Europeans, as a group, don't thrive on a vegan/vegetarian diet. Too many generations eating meat. Our digestive systems have evolved to eat flesh. In the past, I knew several vegans. They were always catching some sort of virus, and looked undernourished"
> Utter tosh mate..you try eating nothing but meat..human needs a balanced diet and what protein you get from meat can be sourced elsewhere.
> ...


There's been research done on the subject. I didn't say that meat was 100% of their diet. Only that their digestive system uses meat protein more efficiently. Ask any Eskimo. Hunter/gatherers gathered fruit and other digestible vegetation, in season, and dried what they could, but the largest part of their diet was meat and fish.


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