# Old in the Way-First Grow Journal



## Old in the Way (Nov 27, 2008)

Hello All,

You may have noticed me trying to assist with some questions posted here at RIU. I am only trying to give back what many here and other forums offered as I prepared to construct and fire up my op this past summer.

I come from a traditional horticulture background so Hydro and Cannabis offered some unique challenges for me. I have a great deal of comfort with much of the process but the balance that must be maintained requires some trial and error as well as expert guidance......that being said......

I would like to thank AlB, Potroast, VV, Stinkbud, Bugs, Spark and many more.....all of you here have made a difference in my op-whether you know it or not....I keep an eye on as much as I can and try to pay attention to what is working and what is not. Thanks again to all of you.

I hope many of you will stop by and follow along. And pleeeease give some feedback......the learning never stops, and I am definitely still on the curve.....but its getting there.

There are a number of questions I have and a great deal of issues that seem to come and go throughout the life-cycle so some of my initial posts will be that of some problems I am encountering and any assistance with these issues would be greatly appreciated.

Gather around everyone.....Old's first pics ever........


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## Old in the Way (Nov 27, 2008)

Ok guys,

This summer I designed and built my op....details will follow

I am not doing anything special but I thought it would be nice to post a thread anyway....yes I know just some other newbie doing the Al B Tribute Grow.

Yes and No.

It is a perpetual harvest SoG with top-drip and hydroton as the medium, I utilize some aeroponics for my veg phase (which is only 4-7 days) But Mums and Flower are top-drip (I will be changing to flood drain in flower-details as to why and whats what to follow). I have tweaked some things to fit my needs but otherwise its just another perpetual SoG.

I ordered seeds in early August and germinated on August 23rd. I used seedbankupdate.com to find reputable seed banks and had no problems with my choice(s)

I have 7 strains going in order to find the best for my op.

Afgani #1-pure indica
Skunk #1-80/20 sativa/indica-cup winner from way back in the day
Shiva Shanti-afgani dominant indica
Malawi Gold-african sativa
White Widow-f1 hybrid
Big Bud-f1 hybrid
NLxAK

Pretty basic choices but i will start adding some other mums to my quiver in early 09'

Got some kiwi haze and cali orange seeds that I have not started yet.

I waited on the haze till I worked the bugs out and the cali orange doesn't look that dank. But I will probably start a few soon to do some trial runs.

I guess we will start with my veg, clone and mother room.

Mums are under 1kw Mh, Aeroponic Veg Unit is using a 4'-8 bulb T5 (400w floro), Clones are done using rapid rooters instead of rw cubes but otherwise I follow the batch of clones in rockwool set-up.

Here are some pics.

Starting with mums. More posts and pics to follow....oh what the hell I am going to throw in a couple bud pics too....i just can't help myself.






Mums





More Mums





the same Mums...again





twin skunk #1 at 5 weeks





Shiva Cola at 7 weeks


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## Old in the Way (Nov 27, 2008)

Clone Pictures...........







Clones are done in Rapid Rooters, trays are sitting on heat mats.







One thermostat controls both heat mats.....nice huh







These are 6 days old, I usually see roots in 7-10







Close up shows a couple secrets-I turn my rapid rooters upside-down and make my own hole so the cdutting is held firmly by the medium. They also sit in net cups which ar secured to the tray so things don't topple over when watering/misting.

I usually take cuttings the same length as my pruners. That's about it-I will post some pics of the aeroponic veg unit soon and then move into pics of the flower room.






Hope you guys like it so far.....

Thanks for looking.

-OitW


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## bigtittymilf (Nov 27, 2008)

are there supposed to be pics?


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## Old in the Way (Nov 27, 2008)

No pics?? I put them in the text-not as attachments. Do you need to change a browser setting maybe??


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## Old in the Way (Nov 27, 2008)

Can anyone see the pics??


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## Old in the Way (Nov 27, 2008)

Here is a EZ Clone 120.







I didn't find it usefull for cloning so after my clones root through the rapid rooters...........I hang them in here for 4-7 days to put on some roots and a node or two in height before they go to flower.....They start looking like this.







after 7 plus days......they really get rolling








They then get moved to flower.

Tray 1--Days1-20
1kw HPS

Here is a sneak preview.







I hope these pics are coming up...if not let me know


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## bigtittymilf (Nov 27, 2008)

hmm i dunno i dont see anything where it wold say ttext pic but i donts see any


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## Old in the Way (Nov 27, 2008)

Are the pictures in my post??? I had the pictures marked private in my album maybe that meant you couldn't see them. Anyone know what the deal is....I hate all this computer crap.


Can anyone see this picture??


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## Old in the Way (Nov 28, 2008)

Here is a couple new pics......wide shot of flower room













Hope you guys like it...I have some semi-major changes in the works. Such as a 4th light and res but I need to switch from 3-8x4 trays and get 4-6x4 trays (i only use a 6x4 space on my trays for each 1kw lamp) to change from a 20 day cycle to a 15 day. All will be completed after the new year.

Stick around it should get interesting......Hey check out my 4000w Grow Room thread in the Design and Set-up Category. Thx for playing


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## onthedl0008 (Nov 28, 2008)

How do u approach a king lol ?!...
Teach me everything u know...

How do u set ur clone trays up...Please disect ur process and explain it to me step by step so i can mimmick it exactly sir....

This fawkin grow is sick in the head! + reps sir!!!!!!!

On Edit: I read ur entire thread before posting, I guess the points I would like for u to reitterate for me is what temp is ur heat mat on, The plugs look really wet in the domes maybe thats why i havent had succes in a dome.... My setup has worked to date by just cloning in a cup of water but im going to be sogging my current grow so I need a proven (like such as urs)cloning method that will be sufficient to Keep my flower tub full.. Thanks for all the help in advance


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## Old in the Way (Nov 28, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> How do u approach a king lol ?!...
> Teach me everything u know...


Please don't say such things, I am a humble observer of the Masters nothing more. Just come from a hort background...which does'nt hurt. But our nursery never could sell clones....wish we could've



> How do u set ur clone trays up...Please disect ur process and explain it to me step by step so i can mimmick it exactly sir....


You really can just call me Old...not sir...but my clone set-up. 

Heatmat Tstat is set around 82--i don't think its very accurate so if it seems to be running warm I just turn it down to like 78-80 or so. Cheap tstats aren't trustworthy.

I use 2" net pots, about 36-40 per tray, put the rapid rooters in them (straight out of the bag)--upside down--so I can make my own hole with a skewer or chopstick.

I soak them to the point you see in the pic with 5 or 6 good sprays (not mists of 5.8ph water.

Cut clones, Clonex Gel, in plug.......if you aren't comfortable with this part let me know....I use the "Batch of Clones in Rockwool" System by Al B Fuct that is stickied at the top of the hydro section.

They go into the closet or bathroom attached to my op for at least a 6 hour dark period (up to 12) to recover from the shock.---this is a very important step.......Then under the floro 24/7.

Moisture level of RR.....I just watered...I lifted the dome TO water so the pic is a bonus.
The main point I want to make is that I DO NOT keep them this wet during the first 4-5 days. Keep them moist but not saturated-more moist than rw cubes but not dripping water if you pick them up.
The other thing is on day 6 (in this pic)--I KNOW with 100% certainty that any that have come that far are and will be showing roots over the next 24-48 hours and are taking up alot more water at this point.

RR are more forgiving than RW Cubes but overwatering will rot off your cuttings quickly.



> This fawkin grow is sick in the head! + reps sir!!!!!!!


Thanks...some ppl say that 'bout me.



> On Edit: I read ur entire thread before posting, I guess the points I would like for u to reitterate for me is what temp is ur heat mat on, The plugs look really wet in the domes maybe thats why i havent had succes in a dome.... My setup has worked to date by just cloning in a cup of water but im going to be sogging my current grow so I need a proven (like such as urs)cloning method that will be sufficient to Keep my flower tub full.. Thanks for all the help in advance


You should carefully read and follow the Batch of Clones in Rockwool system in the hydro section. That is the system that worked for me. 


Thanks for checking things out.

-OitW


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## NoDrama (Nov 28, 2008)

Woot! Lookin good! +rep 4 ya


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## Old in the Way (Nov 28, 2008)

Some more pics.....in honor of a new post in my thread.....again I am really sorry these pics aren't rotated--i figured you did it here on the site......friggin old-timers i tell ya.







These should be good ones...


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## onthedl0008 (Nov 28, 2008)

OLD! I have printed and will read and reread these instructions...

I dont understand why u would revert me to als thread with rockwool lol...

Im trying to follow ur system with the plugs because thats what I have found have worked best in my DWC system.I have tried rockwool but it tends to get and stay to wet while keeping water levels at proper hieghts for maximum growth during different plant stages of growth...

I havent been this excited about my grow in a long time and appreciate ur help humble king LOL Had to...Sorry..

On another note, Please stop by my grow, mainly when i cut and clone ur critique would be greatly appreciated to walk me thru the process of ur plug technique which ive decided is the best for my op.

Thanks again for all ur help! U R the man!


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## Old in the Way (Nov 29, 2008)

I send members there for the cloning process.....not the medium.

The Cut
The Dip
The Insert into Medium
The Dark Period
The Environmental Info, Temps, RH, etc.

Al's thread should be called "A Batch of Clones in Medium of Your Choice"

Just replace the word rockwool with rapid-rooter in any of his threads.

Still the same system......


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## Zerotilt (Nov 29, 2008)

Thats......um....a lot of um..... green. Good for you Old. I will subscribe and follow this very closely. Can't wait to see this cycle. I don't think I could ever have a system like this with that many plants. I would never leave the house, or grow room for that matter. Yeah the 20 clones in rockwool by Al B. is great, sad he's not around anymore. Good luck on your grow. +rep


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## Quickset (Nov 29, 2008)

Awesome Old in the Way! Love the journal in progress plus the mouth watering pics !!! 

Thanks for sharing with us all. I'll be following this thread with keen interest !!! +rep


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## ACEakaGREEN (Nov 29, 2008)

prity crazy piczz im hopeing to get started tomorow evrey thingzz redy i hope i dont fuck it up ill be hopeing to get sum help if needed


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## Zerotilt (Nov 29, 2008)

ACEakaGREEN said:


> prity crazy piczz im hopeing to get started tomorow evrey thingzz redy i hope i dont fuck it up ill be hopeing to get sum help if needed


Good luck on your first Grow, The first one is always a little scary. You'll probably make some mistakes but everyone does. Just learn from them and you'll be growing thick buds in no time. Good Luck Bro


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## Old in the Way (Nov 29, 2008)

Zerotilt said:


> Thats......um....a lot of um..... green. Good for you Old. I will subscribe and follow this very closely.


Thanks, I will be adding more pics frequently........



> I don't think I could ever have a system like this with that many plants.


sure you can.....overgrow them all!!



> I would never leave the house, or grow room for that matter.


I don't, i am a retiree. Well sometimes, but not much....its not unusual for me to go 5-6 days with out leaving my property.




> Yeah the 20 clones in rockwool by Al B. is great, sad he's not around anymore. Good luck on your grow. +rep


Ya thats the truth....thanks again...


-OitW


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## Old in the Way (Nov 29, 2008)

Quickset said:


> Awesome Old in the Way! Love the journal in progress plus the mouth watering pics !!!
> 
> Thanks for sharing with us all. I'll be following this thread with keen interest !!! +rep


Thanks, I will keep the pics coming...


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## Old in the Way (Nov 29, 2008)

ACEakaGREEN said:


> prity crazy piczz im hopeing to get started tomorow evrey thingzz redy i hope i dont fuck it up ill be hopeing to get sum help if needed


Ya exciting times when firing up a new op...don't be intimidated by the process. If you need any help you can ask me here or post a thread in hydro or design/set-up so other experienced members can offer assistance as well.

You won't fuck it up, just look at me....i am not smarter than your average bear and this is my first grow.....lots of hurdles were overcome, so it does take a while and the learning never stops.

Good Luck, and grow mon grow

-OitW


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## Styl!st07 (Nov 29, 2008)

Subcribed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NIce grow Old, looks like u done ur home work.lol

After u cut and dip ur clone and place them in the dark room, do u have them on a heat mat with the dome on?

I dont remember seeing that in ur posting but i might have missed that. 

- Styl!st


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## Old in the Way (Nov 29, 2008)

> Styl!st07
> Subcribed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> NIce grow Old, looks like u done ur home work.lol
> ...


Yep there is a shot of the Tstat for the heat mats on page1, i used a splitter and have 2-24x24"heat mats plugged in to one thermostat, you can barely see them under the 4 trays...set at 80-82f..

For everyone here that has trouble with rockwool, the same system with RR should be a snap.

Thanks for checking it out.


-OitW


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## onthedl0008 (Nov 29, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> I send members there for the cloning process.....not the medium.
> 
> The Cut
> The Dip
> ...


Thanks man! Ive read Als threads several times lol Ur system looks exactly like the diagram on the first page of one of his threads...Just Awesome!

Ur answer to stylist kinda summed it up for me....Up to now Ive had success cloning in a simple cup of water ( Enuff at least which has been sufficient to keep my simple small 4-5 plant system stuffed)... And not alot with rockwool in the DWC... But I think i need something better in place to be able to keep 12 plants rotating flower on this system... Thanks for the help man Ive been looking for a way to have sure success with the plugs and urs looks like well..... INSANE


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## Old in the Way (Nov 29, 2008)

Yes dl, INSANE indeed.

Just make sure to turn them upside down and make your own hole in the plugs. My success rate goes way down if I use the manufacturers hole because unless they are real fat cuttings they are not held firmly enough by the medium.

Good luck and keep me posted!


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## SomeGuy (Nov 29, 2008)

Damn, Cant believe I didnt see this one earlier. Awesome job. I clone in a bubble cloner and let the roots get all crazy like that too before flower... Just no medium. Love the setup

BTW +Rep


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## Old in the Way (Nov 29, 2008)

I have already gotten some inquiries about my cloning methods.

Here is a copy of my response that explains it in more detail......



blacksnow said:


> I saw the pictures of your setup and I had a question about your cloning procedure...
> 
> you seem like you have everything going well so i figured you could help me out
> 
> ...


1.Select Mum.

2.Prep branches to be cut. I clean off all side branches down to the node I will leave for it to regrow from. I do this on all tops at the same time.

3.Cut at 45deg angle (or steeper) with CLEAN and SANITIZED scalpel or sharp, high-quality shears(i prefer shears) but I go through 3 or 4 pairs a month. 

4.As each are cut I immediately dip them in Clonex gel, then insert into upside down rapid rooter that i have made my own hole in with a chopstick or something, and pre-watered with 5.8 ph h2o, treated with 1.7 ml-35%h2o2 per litre of water.

-I have gotten pretty quick at this, if you are moving slowly you may want to keep them covered with the humidome and mist them after every 3-6 cuttings so they don't suffer before the dark period.

5.When each tray is full I cover with humidome and place in the dark. 

6.After 6-12 hrs of darkness or when I remember them they go on horticultural heat mats--not heating pads--set to 82 deg f.

7. Water as needed twice daily to keep them moist but not soaked. You know they are rooting because after 5-6 days they start using alot more water during the day.

--I water using a spray bottle with the tip adjusted so it sprays a single stream not a fine mist and water by spraying the plug at the top where the stem enters

-I do not mist the foliage in humidomes after the initial cutting--they don't need it--it will be over 90% humidity in the dome and this will encourage powdery mildew that will eat up a tray of clones in a few days.

Thats about it.
Good Luck


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## Old in the Way (Nov 29, 2008)

SomeGuy said:


> Damn, Cant believe I didnt see this one earlier. Awesome job. I clone in a bubble cloner and let the roots get all crazy like that too before flower... Just no medium. Love the setup
> 
> BTW +Rep



Hey thanks!


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## onthedl0008 (Nov 29, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> I have already gotten some inquiries about my cloning methods.
> 
> Here is a copy of my response that explains it in more detail......
> 
> ...


THank you Sir!


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## onthedl0008 (Nov 29, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> Yes dl, INSANE indeed.
> 
> Just make sure to turn them upside down and make your own hole in the plugs. My success rate goes way down if I use the manufacturers hole because unless they are real fat cuttings they are not held firmly enough by the medium.
> 
> Good luck and keep me posted!


Sorry but im obsessed .... I am going to have to cut next weekend either way maybe sooner.... Im setting up my clone pad right now.. Let u know when i cut thanks man!


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## Styl!st07 (Nov 30, 2008)

Im loving this thread there soo much info here for new ppl like me to use.

I been having a lil trouble with my clone getting to root. When takeing clone from mother plants, do i need to flush my mother with plain water a few day b4 i clone?

I know u are useing Al's way of cloning but u use a humidity dome on ur set-up, this raises the humidity up to 90%, like u said, this is a differant way than his. Using the dome and raising the humidity up, do u have more success with the humidity dome than not using it? 

I have triesd it with no dome and had no luck cuz at the 6-7 day mark i lost my clone do to under watering and rapid drop in temp over night. Al' says that u dont need a humidity dome but i think it would be more foregiving, right?

When u started ur seed and when they where a few days old, how long do u keep them cover with the humidity dome and on the heat-mat? I assume that u used that same set-up for ur seedling that u used for ur clones. 

Once i can get theese seeds to take off i will finally have sum mothers to start clones off of. If u have any advice on growing seed to be cum healthy mothers that would be great.

I wish i had a 2nd bed room to dedicate to growing as u do. All i have is a 4x4 homebow for my flowering room and a 2x2 for my clones and soon to be 3x3 for my mothers. U have a awsume set-up and allot of patience too. 

Good luck and thanx for all the help................ 

- Styl!st


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## Old in the Way (Nov 30, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> Sorry but im obsessed


Me too



> .... I am going to have to cut next weekend either way maybe sooner.... Im setting up my clone pad right now.. Let u know when i cut thanks man!


Sounds good.........My next scheduled cut is on 12/09, I will chronicle the process complete with photos......and perhaps do a "Cloning 101"-Thread in the hopes of helping everyone overgrow it all


-OitW


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## Old in the Way (Nov 30, 2008)

Styl!st07 said:


> Im loving this thread there soo much info here for new ppl like me to use.


Thanks again



> I been having a lil trouble with my clone getting to root. When takeing clone from mother plants, do i need to flush my mother with plain water a few day b4 i clone?


A very good article in High Times a few months back had VISC's cloning system in it.........they flush, and I have heard of ppl doing this, I have not tried it but it seems to be sound practice......burning up stored nitrogen to shift the plant's focus to water uptake and rooting can't hurt anything as long as you get roots in 10-14 days otherwise I would worry about the clones running their "batteries" down and becoming too deficient to recover or be productive in flower.



> I know u are useing Al's way of cloning but u use a humidity dome on ur set-up, this raises the humidity up to 90%, like u said, this is a differant way than his. Using the dome and raising the humidity up, do u have more success with the humidity dome than not using it?


I had my clone zone enclosed at first but the temps and RH were not stable enough for me, the humidome solves that prob. Much greater success rate with........



> I have triesd it with no dome and had no luck cuz at the 6-7 day mark i lost my clone do to under watering and rapid drop in temp over night. Al' says that u dont need a humidity dome but i think it would be more foregiving, right?


Much more forgiving--the first few days they don't use much water in the dome because evaporation and transpiration are kept to a minimum, this is the only point where I have to be careful not to overwater because they will rot at the plug and fall right over---some ppl re-cut and attempt to root these--I toss them for fear of infecting neighboring cuttings.



> When u started ur seed and when they where a few days old, how long do u keep them cover with the humidity dome and on the heat-mat? I assume that u used that same set-up for ur seedling that u used for ur clones.


I actually move seedlings right to veg and hand water with lower nutes ater they open a set of true leaves, and I keep the vents on the dome wide open once the seed germinates, you will rot them pretty quickly if allowed to stay too warm and humid for too long. 



> Once i can get theese seeds to take off i will finally have sum mothers to start clones off of. If u have any advice on growing seed to be cum healthy mothers that would be great.


Lets see what I can dig up on my process that may help you and other members here.....



> I wish i had a 2nd bed room to dedicate to growing as u do.


....2 BR, 1 Full bath......its is an entire end of my house.



> All i have is a 4x4 homebow for my flowering room and a 2x2 for my clones and soon to be 3x3 for my mothers.


Sounds like a great set-up to start, safe and stealthy. That should be priority number one with any grow.......

and I am sorry if you end up like me with the time and space for an op like this........It means all other parameters have been met........

which means no visitors, no family, no dating-unless she invites you to her place, 1 or 2 friends-max (and only one that knows about what to do so if you were ever in an accident or anything like that they can react apprpriately), no bars, no parties, no putting yourself in any social environment that may lead to any suspicion or problems with the law......i.e. no lime green honda's that you can here from a quarter mile away....aahhhemmm

I have sacraficed alot to have an op like this....sad really....its my way of compensating for the things in life I can no longer be a part of......it is peaceful though......for those that can do it (the lifestyle that is)



> U have a awsume set-up and allot of patience too.
> 
> Good luck and thanx for all the help................
> 
> - Styl!st


NP and thank you


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## Quickset (Nov 30, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> and I am sorry if you end up like me with the time and space for an op like this........It means all other parameters have been met........
> 
> which means no visitors, no family, no dating-unless she invites you to her place, 1 or 2 friends-max (and only one that knows about what to do so if you were ever in an accident or anything like that they can react apprpriately), no bars, no parties, no putting yourself in any social environment that may lead to any suspicion or problems with the law......i.e. no lime green honda's that you can here from a quarter mile away....aahhhemmm
> 
> ...


Yes 100% correct on the sacrifice required when committing to a grow op. My girlfriend is the only person aware of my activities and she postulates aloud about such sacrifices to the point of being annoying, errrrrr. I considered breaking up because of her viewpoint on things before she knew of my intent to grow. I hoping to get a harvest in before it comes to a head, if it ever does. 

I don't know anyone else that I can trust with my grow business nor would I want to at this point. I wanted to tell others at first even knowing the consequences of such telling but learned to bite my tongue which in itself is a sacrifice. 

I read in the forums recently of one person who shared his secret and shortly afterwards had his place broken into and his stuff ripped off. Not a good scene. 

I'm just touching on the matter as you did. I'm sure others have their stories of sacrifice too but once you grow some kick ass bud you feel better but is it worth it?...... I'll let you know in 3, 4, 5 or more grows, lol


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## Old in the Way (Nov 30, 2008)

Quickset said:


> Yes 100% correct on the sacrifice required when committing to a grow op. My girlfriend is the only person aware of my activities and she postulates aloud about such sacrifices to the point of being annoying, errrrrr. I considered breaking up because of her viewpoint on things before she knew of my intent to grow. I hoping to get a harvest in before it comes to a head, if it ever does.


Yikes....a woman knows, that gives her to much leverage in y'alls relationship.....I don't know where you are or how big an op but that leaves you wide open to........i can't say it, I'm sure she is great, and sane...just please break it down if it ends badly between you and wait a minute before setting up shop again.....better yet break it down if things go downhill to take the leverage away.....yikes




> I wanted to tell others at first even knowing the consequences of such telling but learned to bite my tongue which in itself is a sacrifice.


Its tough ain't it. Wait till somebody packs a bowl of your crop and is raving about it at a cook-out or something......talk about needing restraint....whew




> I read in the forums recently of one person who shared his secret and shortly afterwards had his place broken into and his stuff ripped off. Not a good scene.


Yep, that sucks. I would like to think that I don't need to worry about that kind of issue, the only person in the world that knows is dependent on it not being compromised as well....sounds like something a karmically-challenged youngster might pull.



> I'm just touching on the matter as you did. I'm sure others have their stories of sacrifice too but once you grow some kick ass bud you feel better but is it worth it?...... I'll let you know in 3, 4, 5 or more grows, lol


Oh ya, I would think it is about the same for any of the growers here with anything more than a closet grow.

Later
Time to change the resevoirs....
-OitW


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 1, 2008)

OLD Please tell me ur take on mixing organic with synthetic nuts? Im currently using botanicaire pro series but add Kool Bloom during flower which is synthetic.... Its been working well until now but have been told its not good to mix the 2...Was thinking about going to Liquid Karma but im trying to reach the 0/10/10 of the KB. Do U know of any other good organic Flower supplements i can add to obtain the 0/10/10

Lol I know thats way off line hahah just wanted ur insight!


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 1, 2008)

very nicely done my friend, thanks for the honorable mention. +rep for the pro job.


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## Old in the Way (Dec 2, 2008)

bugsrnme said:


> very nicely done my friend, thanks for the honorable mention. +rep for the pro job.


Thanks and NP "my friend"(a bit McCainish)lol.....where in the world is Sparkafire......starting to worry about him.....I have noticed alot of members coming and going so perhaps thats the norm once they have the info they need or the novelty wears off

Whats going on with your place......setting back-up yet??

Check out the 4000w grow room thread i have in design/set-up.....some different pics and what not.

Thanks for checking it out.....


-OitW


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## Old in the Way (Dec 2, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> OLD Please tell me ur take on mixing organic with synthetic nuts? Im currently using botanicaire pro series but add Kool Bloom during flower which is synthetic.... Its been working well until now but have been told its not good to mix the 2...Was thinking about going to Liquid Karma but im trying to reach the 0/10/10 of the KB. Do U know of any other good organic Flower supplements i can add to obtain the 0/10/10
> 
> Lol I know thats way off line hahah just wanted ur insight!


No idea.....I think Subcool is the Organics master.....he can ususally be found in the...well, uh...Organics Section.

_Organics are incompatible with H2O2_ so I don't use them...

I use DutchMaster Gold Grow and Flower formulas. 
Epsom Salts, Cal Mag Plus, H2O2 and Ph Buffers....thats it

In Flower I use BigBud-Advanced Nutes product 0-15-40
I have to adjust down the amount of DutchMaster i use then add BB at 20-40% recommended application depending on what week the crop is in.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 2, 2008)

That cloning idea is awesome, the upside down RR and then the aero cloner. I didn't like my aero cloner with the RR, they put roots out too fast and weave into the net pots. I didn't like it at transplant time when I didn't use any medium, just the collars. Thanx. VV


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## Old in the Way (Dec 2, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> That cloning idea is awesome, the upside down RR and then the aero cloner. I didn't like my aero cloner with the RR, they put roots out too fast and weave into the net pots. I didn't like it at transplant time when I didn't use any medium, just the collars. Thanx. VV


Thanks, its working well for me and that was also the issue I had (roots weaving through net pots).

I also felt obligated to find a use for the e-z clone so it didn't just sit in the corner collecting dust.......the crops that got the 4-7 days of veg in there hit the flower room running and appear that they will be far more produvtive.....should know around the 20th


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 2, 2008)

oh I agree, I made 2 21 site aerocloners, they are sitting in my garage. So you are going to top water until the roots get down into the hydroton and then go to aero for flowering? VV


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## Styl!st07 (Dec 2, 2008)

> Old in the Way said:
> 
> 
> > > I had my clone zone enclosed at first but the temps and RH were not stable enough for me, the humidome solves that prob. Much greater success rate with.....
> ...


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 2, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> > Thanks and NP "my friend"(a bit McCainish)lol.....
> 
> 
> that makes me feel all creepy
> ...


 very nice on that one as well


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## Old in the Way (Dec 2, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> oh I agree, I made 2 21 site aerocloners, they are sitting in my garage. So you are going to top water until the roots get down into the hydroton and then go to aero for flowering? VV


I didn't quite follow the end of the question.....But.....

when the clones have rooted through the plugs and can hold a wet, heavy, RR suspended in the ez cloner I put a collar on them, stick them in the unit to veg under the 8 bulb t5 like you have....then after 4-7 days I transplant the clone with attached Rapid Rooter and the beard of roots into a pot 6" square pot of hydroton.....then on to the flower room....where they are on a top-drip system (it was a technology I was comfortable with because of my greenhouse/nursery work background) 

On my first ccouple crops i felt like the clones didn't go into flower in 5th gear....so that 4-7 days on nutes under the floros in the aero-cloner..err..vegger really gets them moving then they pop right from the 1st day


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## Old in the Way (Dec 2, 2008)

Styl!st07 said:


> > Old in the Way said:
> >
> >
> > > I will try my next batch with this method. I just want to make sure i have this right for my next batch of clones.
> > ...


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 2, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> Styl!st07 said:
> 
> 
> > > RW huh.....ok....don't premoisten using the method I outlined for the rapid rooters....prep them accordingly---moisten with ph adjusted water, set for 24 hrs, use a salad spinner to take extra moisture out of them....never squeeze or crush the cubes, they won't allow any air in if you do.....all my RW knowledge is learned i have never applied it.....RR make life easy..
> ...


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## Old in the Way (Dec 2, 2008)

bugsrnme said:


> very nice on that one as well


Thanks man, your friggin hilarious.....the shit you come up with.

Ya the fighting....or arguing......I had to show my ass with these guys telling a noob/posting a chart claiming 8x8 coverage with a 1000w lamp.....I think he saw it in print somewhere.....High Times maybe

the only thing I forgot to ask him was how many growers that legit mag employs..........cause I 'm pretty sure they hire.....well, uh.....WRITERS.

Like Al said, Jorge is a writer, he sells books....not buds.....more time growing less time writing makes sense to me.....

I don't want the Dr. that wrote the text book, I want the guy that does more procedures of X-type than any other doc in the country....

Some ppl just don't get it


-OitW


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## Old in the Way (Dec 2, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> Old in the Way said:
> 
> 
> > Styl!st07 said:
> ...


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 2, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> I didn't quite follow the end of the question.....But.....
> 
> when the clones have rooted through the plugs and can hold a wet, heavy, RR suspended in the ez cloner I put a collar on them, stick them in the unit to veg under the 8 bulb t5 like you have....then after 4-7 days I transplant the clone with attached Rapid Rooter and the beard of roots into a pot 6" square pot of hydroton.....then on to the flower room....where they are on a top-drip system (it was a technology I was comfortable with because of my greenhouse/nursery work background)
> 
> On my first ccouple crops i felt like the clones didn't go into flower in 5th gear....so that 4-7 days on nutes under the floros in the aero-cloner..err..vegger really gets them moving then they pop right from the 1st day


Sometimes I turn to the next page, I heard you mention drip and saw the hydroton, thought you had aslo mentioned ending aero, may have been another book, you know how it goes. I showed posty your RR upside down, he said they looked like upside down rapid rooters or something, imaging that. His first transplanting experience was with the medium-les clones. Still stays in the two week time frame, makes sense to me, just should have read the thread before I put those last clones in the rockwool blocks. VV


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## Old in the Way (Dec 2, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I showed posty your RR upside down, he said they looked like upside down rapid rooters or something, imaging that.


lmao, Thats the best statement anyone has posted yet......awesome, just awesome....could be the sleep dep too.



> Still stays in the two week time frame, makes sense to me, just should have read the thread before I put those last clones in the rockwool blocks. VV


ya you get a good 3-4 days of veg on the two week cycle-which is just about perfect with a 6-7" clone.....

and hey at least you have another batch right around the corner.....I love that part of the perpetual op.....always something to do...

The northeast huh....i grew up in RI and MA......I guess I can say that since I left there many moons ago. 


-OitW


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## Styl!st07 (Dec 3, 2008)

> Old in the Way
> RW huh..........RR make life easy..


Yeah ant that the truth, this stuff is kind of tuff to get down but Ill get it one day. Al says that RR are organic and using H202 will break it down and will fall apart as time goes on, I have never used RR with H202. 

How do they hold up for u in ur setup?

Do u have any problems with them falling apart on u?



> I water RR by look...RW requires precision, if you have a scale....a dry 40mm cube weighs 5g dry--if memory serves--25g with the appropriate amount of moisture.....water RQ cubes by dipping A CORNER of the cube into a pail of ph adjusted water....


Looks like u done ur homwork 



> No, not yet....the RW looks saturated...allow it to dry out so it is moist but not wet....leave in just the cube till they are spewing roots out of the bottom.......then tranplant......after transplant water perlite around the cube but not the cube itself.....the cube will appear to be dry at all times if you are watering correctly after transplant


So ill just leave them in the try untill the roots come out more.



> Stretch is likely to be associated with overwatering.....cube shoud be moist not soaked.....25g wet...you need to get RH up and temps down


Check, i will try to bring the temp down and RH up



> lol, I usually have to turn one of mine off.....adding speakers in both rooms in Jan 09 when the cctv and heat sensors go in, and my new flat screen so I can have my CNBC running 24/7


Awsume, luckly i have my op in my bedroom with my 52" LCD with computer all in the same room. Lets just say i never leave my room.lol



> Next couple days I might be hard to find---big traunch of work upcoming......


NP, cant wait to see more pics and for u to give us an update on the grow. 

- Styl!st


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## makesense (Dec 4, 2008)

im seein the pics. 

very impressive!


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 6, 2008)

OK OLD Im about to begin cutting...I have been circleing (quietly stalking)my mums with a new pair of shears since yesterday afternoon LOL.
My horticulture heat pad set @ 80 degrees. (For later)
PH'd water..I actually did a test run with some tap on a few plugs(Snagged a salad spinner from my grandmother) 
Wasted a bunch, my fault i did see somewhere u said about how many ml of water it takes to obtain 40g's..oh well

The only thing I havent heard u mention is if u scrape ur cutting before dip?

On Edit: Was very nervous trying something new(pussed out half way thru)... I decided to do only 4 ur way this batch and IM seriously hoping to be able to get ur results..This method is simple thanks for ur sickness...I tried to follow every step as quickly as i could i will keep u posted...At the moment there in the darkness phase..

Was curious tho do urs slouch over...I just checked on them and had to string them to there supports to getum back up...Is this normal?


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## Old in the Way (Dec 6, 2008)

> Was curious tho do urs slouch over...I just checked on them and had to string them to there supports to getum back up...Is this normal?


Couldn't say, I don't normally peek in on them.....


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 6, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> Couldn't say, I don't normally peek in on them.....


OK bro nuff said figured I was freaking out.. Just hope I didnt go and prolong the root formation by tieing them up! 

On another note will u stop by my grow and tell me what u think about my mums going into there 10 week of flower...All research Ive found on this strain (PINK INDICA) suggests a flowering time between 55 days and up to 9 weeks...Im currently in week 9-10 but have been told to wait by some sources...What do u think if U dont mind my grow is included in my sig bro... UR input would be greatly appreciated!


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## caddy (Dec 6, 2008)

I just want to say what you're doing is great. People like myself absorb the knowledge you and others exhibit here and try to put it into a practical, stable, working environment. Your indepth posts and comments really help make that a reality. Thank you again (and others of course) for the in-depth knowledge you bring to the table.

Keep your lights bright, I look forward to more of your posts & threads.


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 6, 2008)

caddy said:


> I just want to say what you're doing is great. People like myself absorb the knowledge you and others exhibit here and try to put it into a practical, stable, working environment. Your indepth posts and comments really help make that a reality. Thank you again (and others of course) for the in-depth knowledge you bring to the table.
> 
> Keep your lights bright, I look forward to more of your posts & threads.


WERD!


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## Old in the Way (Dec 7, 2008)

caddy said:


> I just want to say what you're doing is great. People like myself absorb the knowledge you and others exhibit here and try to put it into a practical, stable, working environment. Your indepth posts and comments really help make that a reality. Thank you again (and others of course) for the in-depth knowledge you bring to the table.
> 
> Keep your lights bright, I look forward to more of your posts & threads.



Thank you guys! Its all about overgrowing them all......I learn the most helping others learn......

Coming soon to a thread near you.....Cloning 101, Bud Dryer construction version 2.0.1 (a.k.a.-my big ass dryer that I have put off making till today)


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## Old in the Way (Dec 7, 2008)

Also.........how to thouroughly (and easily) clean your hydroton for re-use.

Maybe them hippie chicks at the hydro store will quit thinking I am eating mine........


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 7, 2008)

HEY OLD! U R A GENIUS MAN! My clones are all happy trying to grow out of the dome less than 24 hours later! IM sure I will be seeing roots popping out of these plugs in the next few days! 
Thanks for ur help and input....
Furthermore im looking forward to these threads as well as All ur previuos posts in this thread and others! Its nice to have someone on here that tells it how it really is and at the same time is able to answer questions so sick and nice!


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 7, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> Thank you guys! Its all about overgrowing them all......I learn the most helping others learn......
> 
> Coming soon to a thread near you.....Cloning 101, Bud Dryer construction version 2.0.1 (a.k.a.-my big ass dryer that I have put off making till today)


It's addictive, more fun then you ever thought it would be, makes you want to do things you put off, hahahahahaha, I knew it. VV


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 8, 2008)

get to work hippie...i'm ready to read some more. lol


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## Old in the Way (Dec 8, 2008)

bugsrnme said:


> get to work hippie...i'm ready to read some more. lol


lol, lmao, I am on it sir!


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 8, 2008)

YEA more stuff to read!


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 8, 2008)

i love it....everytime i do something stupid.....way to often.......i realize how much i need to learn even now in this advanced stage of awesomeness!!!


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## bfe1112 (Dec 8, 2008)

Hey Old, great set up. curious what your room dimension are for flowering and vegging. also how many lights etc.

are you using a drip system? or ebb and flow?

good work man.


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## slackjack (Dec 9, 2008)

Hell of a room brother, I'm signing on!


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## SomeGuy (Dec 9, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> Also.........how to thouroughly (and easily) clean your hydroton for re-use.
> 
> Maybe them hippie chicks at the hydro store will quit thinking I am eating mine........


Ive been wondering about this. Ill be looking. I reuse mine now.. I soak it in water and h202 for a day and then a hot water wash and air dry. Probably way off... 

I cant imagine hydroton tastes good...LOL


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 11, 2008)

It only tastes good during drip form.I had no idea you could reuse hydroton this whole time ive been crushing and sniffing my used Rock!


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 12, 2008)

OLD All my clones in the dome have happy feet popping out of them. Dude ur the man. I was sure that i screwed something up but DAY 6 and They are all ready for my bubbler! PINK VAG BISHES.
LOL seems like im the only one that uses this thread.Must really be working on some insane hippy crap i guess.


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## Old in the Way (Dec 12, 2008)

Ya sorry guys, three days straight in the grow room.....I had to take care of me mums....... 







So i did some cutting..........


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 12, 2008)

WOOOOW! Bro ur insane


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## Old in the Way (Dec 12, 2008)

These pics updates will better explain my absence......this really is alot of work........

So Tuesday was a cleaning and clone cutting day.

As you can see--by allowing 20-21 days between cuttings there is an abundance of vegetation to pick from.







The clone area is cleaned with a solution of 10ml/L 35%H2O2...trays, netpots, inserts, walls, etc..







I have found the inserts from the jiffy peat starters hold the 2" netpots so they don't fall over.







I use Rapid Rooters turned upside down to root my cuttings in......







I make my own hole with a chopstick so it holds the cutting firmly ......







Once I am ready to go I get my tools together and get ready to start hacking........plugs have been moistened with 3-5 streams of water from a standard spray bottle treated with h2o2 and a ph of 5.8.......







I sit on a stool while I work....back probs......so these mums have been selected to be prepped, I do this sitting down--I usually prep and harvest cuttings from 3-4 mums at a time..........before prep







After prep.....so now I can cut and dip into rooting hormone without pausing to cut off branches, trim leaves, etc.....







Close up of prepped mum.......







Some people like to scrape and nick the stem around the node you intend to root............I only do this with the thickest tips..........







Most people don't like to cut with shears....I use a brand new set each time I cut clones and then use them for pruning and manicuring in the future. With a factory edge on them I do not have problems that require me to use a scalpel....................







Fast Forward........>>>>>>..........>>>>>>>

Dark Period.............12 hours







Holy Shit........after 148 clones.......there are 300 more I could take.........looks like compost time........







And after dark period they are all quite happy.............







More updates coming this was just Tuesday................


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## Old in the Way (Dec 12, 2008)

In preperation for the next batch I also had some other projects on my "to do" list on Tuesday........

Had to prune up my ladies on day 20 and move them to Tray 2 to make room for the incoming........







All set in their final spot till harvest, Jan 28th.......seems like a long way out


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## Old in the Way (Dec 12, 2008)

Here is Tray 1......Wednesday morning.......I have already loaded some "B" Grade Mums and misc crap to flower..........Note the devoted open space (6x4) that will be serviced by the 1kw lamp......the extra stuff that I flower at the end of the trays is for my own smoke and trial runs, experiments, control crops, etc........







Here are my clones from the original pics in this thread. they have been hanging out vegging for 5-6 days at this point.........







Roots.....13 days in the humidomes and 5 days here in the EZ Vegger.......







8 at a time they get potted up and moved into flower perpetuating the process








Filling it up a little at a time.........







Finally......another project scratched off the list








more updates coming


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## Old in the Way (Dec 12, 2008)

Here is a current shot of the clones I cut on tuesday........about 72 hours from cutting.........body count...2......98.67% strike rate and dropping.....I have 1 more looking a little weak as well......could drop me to a 98% and we still have a week to go


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## Old in the Way (Dec 12, 2008)

And since it always works out like this......Wednesday was also the 10th which means--res change day!!

I use a spare pump to empty resevoirs directly into the tub in the bathroom then get the last few gallons with a hand bilge pump........







Then ts all cleaned to like new condition, inside of lid and every nook of the tanks.........











busy couple of days...........


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## SayWord (Dec 12, 2008)

wow great thread. subscribed from here. great cloning flix. those are gonna help me out a lot


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## smokingrubber (Dec 13, 2008)

and they think hippies never work  You've streamlined your process, but it's still a lot of work when it's done right. Virgins beware.


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## 420weedman (Dec 13, 2008)

i want your job


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 13, 2008)

HIS cloning technique is perfection! Just cut 7 days ago.100 percent ratio.Placing them in the bubbler today! Dont want that job. ILL take his brain!


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## Old in the Way (Dec 14, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> HIS cloning technique is perfection! Just cut 7 days ago.100 percent ratio.Placing them in the bubbler today! Dont want that job. ILL take his brain!



Damn dood.....your technique is perfect.....

I cut tuesday and 9 are down.......all the rest look good and its their fifth day so i should end up with my normal 90++% strike rate....but I kind of fly through the task now and could do better if I took my time.....like my first couple attempts.......

But I don't ever hit 100%.......thats awesome

Well off to trim....started yesterday on about 25% of tray 3....the rest of the tray will be finishing over the course of the next 2 weeks.........

I'll keep everyone posted.......


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 14, 2008)

And to think we owe it all to one asshole that tried to flame you....amazing. Always look for the rainbow. VV


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## HookedOnChronic (Dec 14, 2008)

awesome grow buddy so many plants
subscribed


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## lilmafia513 (Dec 14, 2008)

+rep to you!!!! Damn nice setup and operation!!!!! How could i not subscribe to this!!


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## Old in the Way (Dec 14, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> And to think we owe it all to one asshole that tried to flame you....amazing. Always look for the rainbow. VV



lol, great memory vv......i forgot. I wasn't even going to post pics till that douche bag got me all fired up......lol, he turned out to be a real good sport about some ribbings i gave him and that I posted.


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## Old in the Way (Dec 14, 2008)

smokingrubber said:


> and they think hippies never work  Virgins beware.



Damn straight! I meant to post a warning to the noobs as well........btw, I am on hour 18 of trimming between today and yesterday



> awesome grow buddy so many plants
> subscribed


Thanks Chronic





> +rep to you!!!! Damn nice setup and operation!!!!! How could i not subscribe to this!!


and thank you lilmafia!


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 14, 2008)

Hey OLD.. Why ur around lol... How did u time ur batches to achieve the every 2 weeks harvest? Or how could I.Any advice will be appreciated.

ON EDIT: I Mean I just actually started my first tub. And am already to cut again. Should i just keep cutting until i get all 4 tubs full?


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## sparkafire (Dec 14, 2008)

This is the most impressive grow on the Hydro thread period!!!


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## Old in the Way (Dec 14, 2008)

I am doing the every 21 day thing now.......but the way to do it is decide how often you want to harvest............

i.e. Every 2 weeks........

Divide the number of days your strain takes to finish (hpefully 56 days--if not then every 2 weeks is tough to do) by how often you want to harvest (14 days)

56/14=4

4 is the number of equal sized areas you will need to define in your flower room.....if you have a 6x4 space for instance then you will be dealing with 1.5'x4' areas at a time.

If you are flowering 4 clones per square foot then your first batch should be 26-28 clones so you can cull out a few weaklings.

Fill only the first space (1.5'x4') with these clones....we wil call this area-1.

The day you move those clones to flower you cut 30-35 new ones.....

14 days later you move area1 to area2 and repeat the couple previous steps, when day 56 hits you harvest the original 24 plants and feed 24 new ones into area 1.....and then it begins.....you do 1/4 of your crop every 2 weeks.

I have my room in 3 areas.....same idea

Strain-63 days to maturity
Harvest frequency-21 days

63/21=3

3 spaces-and i repeat the process that I illustrated in my posts over the last couple days every 20-21 days.......thus perpetuating harvests.

21 days works well because of the maturity time on many varieties out there....when I go to 4 trays i will still grow a 9 week variety but harvest every 16 days.....otherwise it doen't work and you end up with a traffic jam.

The other thing is 21 days gives me a week veg time.....and one week out of every three I don't have to babysit clones and water by hand......and if a catastrophe occurs you can take another pass of cuttings and not fall off the schedule since roots are usually seen in 7-10 days you would just lose the veg time I normally get. 

Hope that was clear enough.....its all about dividing starin maturity with harvest frequency and dividing up your spacfe into that many segments.....

One could harvest every 10 days with a 6 tray set-up....and your cuttings would be 2 batches behind at all times.....and you would alternate groups of mums to take clones from......but thats a little agressive--even for me


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 14, 2008)

DUDE! Thank you for laying that out in a way I could easily understand!
I feel as though that info actually began root growth as i read it!


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## Old in the Way (Dec 14, 2008)

sparkafire said:


> This is the most impressive grow on the Hydro thread period!!!



wow spark, thanks...... 

theres a little man love for you......

hope bugs' mom doesn't get jealous.....hehehe

let's see if that gets him out here to sling some shit at us/me/you


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## Old in the Way (Dec 14, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> DUDE! Thank you for laying that out in a way I could easily understand!
> I feel as though that info actually began root growth as i read it!



Glad to help....with tubs of DWC set-ups you can do it on any schedule very easily because each tub has its own nute solution, flush times, etc


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 14, 2008)

Yes i feel like the matrix when i read ur stuff! Then when i begin to type i feel like one of those little robots on transformers.


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 14, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> Yes i feel like the matrix when i read ur stuff! Then when i begin to type i feel like one of those little robots on transformers.


 i love you but your a nerd.



Old in the Way said:


> wow spark, thanks......
> for the blow job
> theres a little man love for you......my weenie is tiny
> 
> ...


i am not a monkey, i dont sling poo. but when you two are done throat humping each other can we get back to trying to get everybody to being as awesome as i am?


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## lilmafia513 (Dec 14, 2008)

LOL!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!......sorry, that was funny!


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 14, 2008)

Monkeys do throw crap.


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## Old in the Way (Dec 14, 2008)

wait a sec....you, my, huh, quote....huh......bj...........spark the cat's out of the bag


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 16, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> Monkeys do throw crap.


 OO OO AHH AHH




Old in the Way said:


> wait a sec....you, my, huh, quote....huh......bj...........spark the cat's out of the bag


DIRTY OLD MAN.

hey old man i need to thank you for making me reread als clon e thread and put your tested knowledge well, to the test. and i am on day 8 in the humidome with upside down rr plugs with everything except the heat mat and they are suckin up some water...i mean dammit, you can watch em stand up after watering. my cloner is still running with a batch of 30 in it but i think im getting 9 out of 10 in the humidome. the watering is much more forgiving than the rw cubes and for some reason faster than the aerocloner....whoulda thunkit


sincerely.....thank you.....jk....had to


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 16, 2008)

so im ditchin the perlite and rw floc in the bottom and going straight hydroton....but do i have to water all the time? even during lights off, or will the roots dry up if i dont? i think i wanna flood 5 times at 4 minutes each during lights on but dont know if i have to flood at night. i know this is normally frowned upon but i'm stuck and really really high on my purple/white widow......


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 16, 2008)

bugsrnme said:


> OO OO AHH AHH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bro thats awesome! Just wanted to say that.I always knew U had something up ur sleave. By the way im really not a nerd bro.Ive lost my mind!
I just did 10 more Olds way this morning.Exactly. They are all looking nice this time. But anyways, IM 4 OF 4
Monkeys do throw crap!


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 16, 2008)

ya he's kinda my new hero. nerd


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## n00604173 (Dec 16, 2008)

shamalamadingdong


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 16, 2008)

bugsrnme said:


> ya he's kinda my new hero. nerd


Its good to see we shall see purp widows again BARONER. U and sparks and many others and now OLD(My newly proclaimed mentor) Have attributed to me losing my mind. Where's the pix bugs?Might we just get a glimpse of the PW again?


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 16, 2008)

i guess one pic couldn't hurt.......no....NO!!!!!! damn devil.....no pics till im a god


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 16, 2008)

shouldnt take more than a few months tops


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 16, 2008)

Yes im prolly going to lose 2 of my 12 cuz I should have waited 1 more day. 
I told U, Ur an a hole bro lol.... haha just one tiny pic dude.
Guess i could wait tho!


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## n00604173 (Dec 16, 2008)

one pic of what?


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 16, 2008)

One pic of the PW of coarse.


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## n00604173 (Dec 16, 2008)

yeah. i wanna see too. show us yours, we'll show you ours


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## Old in the Way (Dec 16, 2008)

bugsrnme said:


> hey old man i need to thank you for making me reread als clon e thread and put your tested knowledge well, to the test. and i am on day 8 in the humidome with upside down rr plugs with everything except the heat mat and they are suckin up some water...i mean dammit, you can watch em stand up after watering. my cloner is still running with a batch of 30 in it but i think im getting 9 out of 10 in the humidome. the watering is much more forgiving than the rw cubes and for some reason faster than the aerocloner....whoulda thunkit
> 
> 
> sincerely.....thank you.....jk....had to



Nice, glad to hear its working out....I have roots in 20-25% of mine (day 7)
lost 11 of my 148 but the rest are good to go....I think by saturday they will be ready to move to the EZ clone for the veg stage....and the cycle continues


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## Styl!st07 (Dec 16, 2008)

Wow OLD looks like u been busy. 

Im loving this thread more and more..............


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## Old in the Way (Dec 17, 2008)

Styl!st07 said:


> Wow OLD looks like u been busy.
> 
> Im loving this thread more and more..............


Ya you could say that........but the last few days have been easy going......

It seems like a pattern is emerging......perpetual work....thats what they should call this.....not a perpetual harvest


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## grandpabear3 (Dec 19, 2008)

bugsrnme said:


> so im ditchin the perlite and rw floc in the bottom and going straight hydroton....but do i have to water all the time? even during lights off, or will the roots dry up if i dont? i think i wanna flood 5 times at 4 minutes each during lights on but dont know if i have to flood at night. i know this is normally frowned upon but i'm stuck and really really high on my purple/white widow......


had to bump this one old man


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 19, 2008)

HEY OLD! Thanks man. All my clones made it thru and the tub is running nicely bro.Thanks for all ur help!Heres some current pix of my clones in the tub. Acouple didnt look like they were going to make it cuz i went to early i think but.Yea i cant believe it myself.100%.I did take my time seing how i really didnt have anything else going on. And i wanted success.
Now if u wouldnt mind. Ive seen you post some great info about plant spacing inside ur grow space. I cant find it man and am afraid with the sudden success ive had that maybe i may not have enuff room in my pots to do 3/pot.
Is there any way when u get time that u can throw up another one of those insanely nice formulas on plant spacing per grow space bro.

Anyhow thanks for all ur help man SERIOUSLY.


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## SayWord (Dec 19, 2008)

id love to see the spacing formula too!


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## Old in the Way (Dec 20, 2008)

bugsrnme said:


> had to bump this one old man



Aww man, sorry, must have missed that one......I water 4x/day-15 minutes each.....freeflow from feeder tubes......so thats about the same wet period as a 4-5 minute fill and 8 minute drain....no need to water at night (mr 80% humidity...lol) mine do fine all night (6:00pm last watering bfore lights out-7:30am about 30 minutes after lights on)





> onthedl0008
> HEY OLD! Thanks man. All my clones made it thru and the tub is running nicely bro.Thanks for all ur help!Heres some current pix of my clones in the tub. Acouple didnt look like they were going to make it cuz i went to early i think but.Yea i cant believe it myself.100%.I did take my time seing how i really didnt have anything else going on. And i wanted success.
> Now if u wouldnt mind. Ive seen you post some great info about plant spacing inside ur grow space. I cant find it man and am afraid with the sudden success ive had that maybe i may not have enuff room in my pots to do 3/pot.
> Is there any way when u get time that u can throw up another one of those insanely nice formulas on plant spacing per grow space bro.
> ...


Very nice, happy to help........I run 4 plants per square foot. (12 rows of 8--6" pots in a 6x4' rectangle

This definately requires good airflow, 40-50% humidity levels, and properly pruned lollipops....I would say if you can maintain healthy foliage then they are not too densely planted.

If you start losing foliage to powdery mildew/lack of light/lack of airflow.....cull out a couple weaklings to open it up a little.


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanks old believe it or not bugs bwahahaha helped me out with the 4 plants per sq.ft. question. I should be right where i need to be.Although mine wont be equally spread out over my grow area and 3 in each pot.
Thanks for ur response man. Like ive already said, if im not learning something here than u are just reassuring my confidence. I do actually plan on taking a couple of my smaller cutting out just cuz i cut them to small and this should help with my space conditions per tub.
If ur not to busy or when u get a chance i guess.One more question lol. Was curious to what ur max ppm is during latter stage of flower for indica strains. Actually i wouldnt even mind if you completely broke it down per each flower stage lol. Ok man well thanks for the help.


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## Old in the Way (Dec 20, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> Thanks old believe it or not bugs bwahahaha helped me out with the 4 plants per sq.ft. question. I should be right where i need to be.Although mine wont be equally spread out over my grow area and 3 in each pot.
> Thanks for ur response man. Like ive already said, if im not learning something here than u are just reassuring my confidence. I do actually plan on taking a couple of my smaller cutting out just cuz i cut them to small and this should help with my space conditions per tub.
> If ur not to busy or when u get a chance i guess.One more question lol. Was curious to what ur max ppm is during latter stage of flower for indica strains. Actually i wouldnt even mind if you completely broke it down per each flower stage lol. Ok man well thanks for the help.


This is for a 70 gallon res....
Tray 1--Day1-20
400ml ea part A & B DutchMaster Gold Flower
40grams Epsom Salts
32.5 grams Big Bud 0-15-40 (PK Boost)
400ml Cal Mag Plus
400ml 35% h2o2
500 ml Fulvic Acid (don't know if this does anything--supposedly a "chelate" or carrier mineral which aids in uptake)

This ends up between 1400 and 1470 ppm but is heavy on the Ca, Mg, P and K......this is due to the high plant count per gallon......they show signs of Mg, P and K deficiencies pretty quickly if I don't supplement heavily.

You should be able to supplement less and use more of your base formula....but I have found that just comes with reading the needs of the plants according to how they are looking 1400-1540 has been a very safe range for me.......

Tray 2--Day 21-41
Same as above--double Big Bud to 65 grams

PPM increases to 1540 +,-

Tray 3--Day 42-58 (Allowing 5 days for flush)

Same as Tray 1--Back to 1400-1470 PPM

Flush with H2O and Clearex for 24 hrs.....as posted by Stinkbud.....if you check the ppm of the water and clearex before and after flushing for 24 hrs you will see how much it goes up as salts are flushed from medium and root mass.....crazy, when I use a 5 gallon bucket to do this it goes from 140-770 after 2 dunks.

Then flush till trichs are at desired ripeness 2-5 days. I have been using Sweet and water at this stage......but the Sweet is just sugar and sulfur.....jury is still out on that product.


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 20, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> This is for a 70 gallon res....
> Tray 1--Day1-20
> 400ml ea part A & B DutchMaster Gold Flower
> 40grams Epsom Salts
> ...


Wow. Thanks! Especially this "You should be able to supplement less and use more of your base formula....but I have found that just comes with reading the needs of the plants according to how they are looking 1400-1540 has been a very safe range for me.......
Im not even going to lie. Ive got so much I need to learn about nutrients.Those clerks at the dro store have been pushing the Fulvic acid. I think im going to break down and get it to see what happens.
Big bud ive seen that as well.Im going to give this a shot to. Im already using the liquid form of Kool Bloom as my PK booster buts its only 0/10/10.
Theyve got a powder form thats like 0/45/45 so I may look into that to.
But Inevitably Im going to continue what ive been doing which is to stay easy on the nutes as i felt was the right thing and what u kind of Just reassured was right.My Early stage hits about 1400 max and my latter hits about up to 1500 max so i see there are things to play with here as well.
Wow thanks this is another one im going to have to germ and let grow roots!


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## Ahzweepay (Dec 23, 2008)

Great journal Old!
Thanks for sharing the things that are working for you.
Lots of great help on RIU - keep it up!!!


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## Old in the Way (Dec 29, 2008)

Ahzweepay said:


> Great journal Old!
> Thanks for sharing the things that are working for you.
> Lots of great help on RIU - keep it up!!!



Thanks....and Happy Holidays to all!

I am back in civilization and in one piece.....hopefully I will have some updates by the weekend.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 30, 2008)

Old in the Way said:


> This is for a 70 gallon res....
> Tray 1--Day1-20
> 400ml ea part A & B DutchMaster Gold Flower
> 40grams Epsom Salts
> ...


Thank you SO much for a clear step-by-step recipe. Could you please post your mother-vegetative recipe? Happy Holidays!


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## Old in the Way (Dec 31, 2008)

smokingrubber said:


> Thank you SO much for a clear step-by-step recipe. Could you please post your mother-vegetative recipe? Happy Holidays!


Veg Recipe

70 gallon/265 Liter Res.....

500ml ea Dutch Master Gold Grow A & B
360ml Cal Mag Plus
25 grams Epsom Salts
400 ml 35% H2O2
500 ml Fulvic Acid........

I think thats all......ph maintained between 5.8-6.2


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 1, 2009)

Happy new year old.. Hope urs is great. Just giving thanks once again man.
Where does that put ur ppms during veg old?


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## Styl!st07 (Jan 2, 2009)

> Old in the Way said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a EZ Clone 120.
> ...


Hey Old Happy New!!!

This is crazy, I leave for a week and RIU has got a face lift and u keep popping out more babies. Thank God for Viagra.....

- Stylist


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## Old in the Way (Jan 3, 2009)

Styl!st07 said:


> Hey Old Happy New!!!
> 
> This is crazy, I leave for a week and RIU has got a face lift and u keep popping out more babies. Thank God for Viagra.....
> 
> - Stylist


LOL, Happy New Year to you.....the facelift is a nice look........btw, I prefer the pill that claims to work for a few days.....for when "you're ready" lol


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 20, 2009)

Hey old if ur still checking up on this.....
Had a question on clones and strain traits...
I took some clones off my pink's last grow and got 2 tubs going thanks to all urz helps.
i dont understand it..Neither one of my flowering tubs bud sites are turning pink yet...Prolly wont but are deffinetely stinking like crazy...Is it normal for clones not to take on characteristics of the parent plants?
Think i read bugs talking about how some of his purp widows never turned purp..
Man i dunno.
I know u have different strains going and prolly seen alot of this..What can i really expect?
Any input on this would be greatly appreciated..


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## grandpabear3 (Jan 25, 2009)

ya you old fart we have been more than patient.....now down some ensure (i like the chocolate ones) and get it in gear already.

oh and DL....mine are actually white widow. just some turned out to be purple. once i located the mom that was throwin purple chirns i had control of what color i wanted.


now a lessor man would take this moment to say something naughty or inapropriate...i however will slide right on by the moment in time knowing that i'm better than all you horrible people for thinking those things.


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 25, 2009)

Ineresting bugs very interesting.. Not all my bud sites turned pink in the original grow but my moms were both tops from both plants.. Just wierd im not getting pink bud man.
Kinda crazy but glad u were able to pull the mom throwing the pur man.


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## Old in the Way (Jan 29, 2009)

onthedl0008 said:


> Hey old if ur still checking up on this.....
> Had a question on clones and strain traits...
> I took some clones off my pink's last grow and got 2 tubs going thanks to all urz helps.
> i dont understand it..Neither one of my flowering tubs bud sites are turning pink yet...Prolly wont but are deffinetely stinking like crazy...Is it normal for clones not to take on characteristics of the parent plants?


I don't know, but I would think they would exhibit the same traits as the parent....they are a genetic copy after all......give it some time maybe they will turn as the pistils mature.




bugsrnme said:


> ya you old fart we have been more than patient.....now down some ensure (i like the chocolate ones) and get it in gear already.


lol, I have been waiting to see how far back the thread would fall.

Thanks for the bumps. I am going to get on it....really......I have been up to my ass in work since the new year......but the updates will be worth the wait

just finished trimming a kilo of wet weight......gd i'm cross-eyed


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## grandpabear3 (Jan 29, 2009)

well it's about damned time........cant wait to see the kilo and all the pics


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## grandpabear3 (Feb 4, 2009)

bump......hey old man.....you still a free man? jail sucks but the sex is good. thanks again for the cloning info....workin like a charm. on my 3rd batch as per you/al and all is well. do you ever take your humidomes off? it just isnt covered in the thread. some folks take theirs off after the first week or when they see roots. comments?


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 4, 2009)

bugsrnme said:


> bump......hey old man.....you still a free man? jail sucks but the sex is good. thanks again for the cloning info....workin like a charm. on my 3rd batch as per you/al and all is well. do you ever take your humidomes off? it just isnt covered in the thread. some folks take theirs off after the first week or when they see roots. comments?


 Jail sucks but the sex is good?
I don't know where you go to jail at, but here it's all guys together, no woman, and damn sure no sex. So that means if you are having sex in jail, then.............


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## grandpabear3 (Feb 4, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> Jail sucks but the sex is good?
> I don't know where you go to jail at, but here it's all guys together, no woman, and damn sure no sex. So that means if you are having sex in jail, then.............


well short of the fat lady at the carnival i dont know of anywhere you can get a beard to tickle your nether-regions the way a big ol' scruffy jail bird can. *sigh* i do miss tyrone


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 4, 2009)

bugsrnme said:


> well short of the fat lady at the carnival i dont know of anywhere you can get a beard to tickle your nether-regions the way a big ol' scruffy jail bird can. *sigh* i do miss tyrone


 
You know what they say.....in the penn. it's just us men!!!LOL!!
Just messing with ya' man, had to make a joke about that!!LOL


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## grandpabear3 (Feb 4, 2009)

lilmafia513 said:


> You know what they say.....in the penn. it's just us men!!!LOL!!
> Just messing with ya' man, had to make a joke about that!!LOL


well i guess since the old man is away we'll just gay up his thread.......

but i will say this......some of the guys i met in there we should not refer to as men. knowhattamean vern? they're ........fancy

i would never fuck one of those, thats just gay. plus they shave 


ok im done.....someones gonna have waaaaay to much fun with this if they read it.


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## lilmafia513 (Feb 4, 2009)

bugsrnme said:


> well i guess since the old man is away we'll just gay up his thread.......
> 
> but i will say this......some of the guys i met in there we should not refer to as men. knowhattamean vern? they're ........fancy
> 
> ...


 LOL....So where is old, haven't seen him on in a minute.
Met my fair share of the ... fancy.....ones while i was there. Just steered clear of that whole situation!!

OLD WHERE YA' AT MAN?


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## grandpabear3 (Mar 15, 2009)

so, what.......we lode another soldier on the front lines again......dammit i hope the old man is ok. it makes you wonder/hope when's it my turn


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## Old in the Way (Mar 21, 2009)

bugsrnme said:


> so, what.......we lode another soldier on the front lines again......dammit i hope the old man is ok. it makes you wonder/hope when's it my turn



If I go down, I am taking a bunch of the opposition with me.

Sorry about going a.w.o.l. sarge.......lots going on.....

I will update soon....maybe.


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## lilmafia513 (Mar 21, 2009)

Old in the Way said:


> If I go down, I am taking a bunch of the opposition with me.
> 
> Sorry about going a.w.o.l. sarge.......lots going on.....
> 
> I will update soon....maybe.


 well thank god you came back.
I understand its been busy in my neck of the woods too!
Glad to hear ya are safe...


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## Old in the Way (Jan 10, 2010)

lilmafia513 said:


> well thank god you came back.
> I understand its been busy in my neck of the woods too!
> Glad to hear ya are safe...



Still Safe here...any of the Perp.Grow Community still around?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice to know you're still kickin  Layin low? Welcome back wise one.


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## Old in the Way (Jan 10, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Nice to know you're still kickin  Layin low? Welcome back wise one.


I have been a bit more active poking around here again...need to update quite a bit since there have been significant changes in my op


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## dmoose (Feb 22, 2010)

Welcome Back!

Its hard to imagine much upgrading to your Grow Room. It was AWSOME as it was. Do you plan on detailing your new Op?


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## onthedl0008 (Jun 19, 2011)

Just wanted to bump this real quick for cut and paste purpose and some more study lol. So dam much knowledge in this thread AWESOME. OLD if ur still around come back for a minute so we can pick ur brains some more. Id reccomend anyone wanting to do perpetual to read this as well as all ALs threads.
PEACE


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## onthedl0008 (Jun 19, 2011)

Old in the Way said:


> I am doing the every 21 day thing now.......but the way to do it is decide how often you want to harvest............
> 
> i.e. Every 2 weeks........
> 
> ...


 Thank god I found this post after 2 threads and eleven pages
Actually I'm printing this out and hanging it on the door to my flower pad.
Thanks OLD.


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