# How do you get fat and denser colas???



## fooster (Jan 2, 2011)

ok guys, so i been through two very successful harvest(potency), however, both harvest, was grown outdoor, but the second one very last part was finished indoor in led.
First time strain was headband and jack herer both are clone.

second time is blue dream which also was from a clone

both times, potency was awesome, but just was not the weight i expected.

Any suggestions to what i can do to improve my density and yield?

I use coco mixed with perlite.
bloom nutrients are 
AN sensi bloom
botanicare hydroplex during late stage
liquid karma
cal mag from GH

I use nutrients every water and try to keep p.h. around 5.5-6.5 
each time i add the nutrients i give usually half the suggest amount to 2/3rd

compare to the stuff i get at the dispensary, it is not even half the size of some of the nugs i see, which really frustrates me


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## fooster (Jan 2, 2011)

anyone?????????????


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## darkdestruction420 (Jan 2, 2011)

Get an hps or more light. Make sure your letting them finish all the way before chopping, the last few weeks is when the buds gain alot of their mass and density.


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## fooster (Jan 2, 2011)

got it, im gonna try and go 9 weeks flowering in my blue mystic and see what happeneds


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## Micromaster (Jan 2, 2011)

feeding with molasses can help with weight because of somewhat increased resin production. Also lower humidity will cause more resin production if I can remember correctly


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## Nullis (Jan 2, 2011)

Container size also matters.


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## Serapis (Jan 2, 2011)

Nullis said:


> Container size also matters.


Yep, how big and established the root ball is has a lot to do with it. Marijuana plants in flower also drink up a lot of nutrients, don't mistake a deficiency as over-feeding. I've used the Fox Farms Flowering additives, the solubles, with great success. Another contributing factor is strain. If you want huge colas, grow Power Bud or Big Bud, or Papaya.


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## Shrubs First (Jan 2, 2011)

Micromaster said:


> feeding with molasses can help with weight because of somewhat increased resin production. Also lower humidity will cause more resin production if I can remember correctly


Thats untrue, molasses isn't absorbed by the plant whatsoever, it is used to feed the microherd
in the media.

Honestly I have never seen any solid weight come out of LEDs. Maybe use them for vegetation or support
lighting. HIDs are just much more efficient per harvest. But LEDs do win in the energy bill.


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## tatamama (Jan 2, 2011)

Co2 co2 co2. The key to perfection.. trust in science.. and of course lots of light and nutes and right temps........


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## Shrubs First (Jan 2, 2011)

tatamama said:


> Co2 co2 co2. The key to perfection.. trust in science.. and of course lots of light and nutes and right temps........


CO2, light, water and proper nutrition are all equally important, there is nothing that is of more importance than something else.


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## fooster (Jan 3, 2011)

thx guys=)


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## Japanfreak (Jan 3, 2011)

Genetics play a lot with the density, that and more light.


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## collective gardener (Jan 3, 2011)

Light Light Light, and some more light.

We tried the Led's and got airy, small bud's too. The only way they seem to work is with very short plants (18" finished height) with the light very close to the tops. This limits how much canopy you can cover with each light.

50 watts HID lighting per sq ft is the absolute minimum. 60+ is preferred. This will make a big difference in bud size and density.


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## darkdestruction420 (Jan 3, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Thats untrue, molasses isn't absorbed by the plant whatsoever, it is used to feed the microherd
> in the media.
> 
> Honestly I have never seen any solid weight come out of LEDs. Maybe use them for vegetation or support
> lighting. HIDs are just much more efficient per harvest. But LEDs do win in the energy bill.


Actually plants do get trace nutrients from mollasses...


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## Shrubs First (Jan 3, 2011)

darkdestruction420 said:


> Actually plants do get trace nutrients from mollasses...


Good to know. Appreciate the correction.

Although I haven't heard of trace elements and sugar making fatter denser colas.


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## LetricBud (Jan 3, 2011)

Experience, knowledge, research, genetics, funding.

Thats how you get the fattest buds... You're on the right path.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 3, 2011)

1. Learning what makes a plant tick

2. Laying off the rocket fuels (see my sig line).


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## fooster (Jan 4, 2011)

My outdoor last year, the nugs were not the size I wanted them to be, however, I also didn't give them gravity towards the end because I didn't know about the product, lets see what happened with my next harvest when i feed them gravity the last three weeks of flowering


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## Mr.Highlyfe (Jan 4, 2011)

If your growing indoors you can also add some 2700k cfls or tha 10 dollar grow light floros at Wal mart for side lighting,and you can also do your homework on whts called lollipoping your plants. And tha molasses does help your plants in taste, resin production, and yield but make sure you use unsulferd(spelling?) blacstrap is the best.


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## fooster (Jan 11, 2011)

actually, i think i got it. Molasses helped a quite bit when i mixed them up among the nutrients.

Check this out =)

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/399221-led-cfl-grow-pics-taken.html


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## Ronjohn7779 (Jan 11, 2011)

CO2 and a Dehumidifier do wonders.


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## yemeneezer (Jan 11, 2011)

Nug size and density have alot more to due with the strain and genetics of the specific seed or clone you have.
I work at a dispensary and have grown both Head band and Blue Dream, They both are heavy yielders with Blue Dream being much higher yielding, but not as dense.

1) start with a known heavy yielding strain and reputable source.
2) Light, Light Light! Its hard to give Marijuana to much light 
3) Co2 1200- 1500 ppm you can double your yields.........all though most people gain about 30%
4) Nutrients your using sound fine, do some research on the strains your growing, some strains can handle much more supplementation then others!

Good Luck.

These are Gods Bud grown from clones at Chronic Pain Releaf Center of Long Beach.
4oz dry weight each plant!


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## H2grOw (Jan 12, 2011)

I am by no means an expert, but on the molasses subject, I do recall reading somewhere that plants can only absorb the simplest of sugars through their roots. In order to be absorbed by the plant, more complex sugars must be broken down first, usually by bacteria and organisims in the soil. The cell membranes on the roots act like the membrane in a RO water purifier. Particles below a certain size can pass freely back and forth, but larger ones are filtered out. This is just what I read, so take it with a grain of salt.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 12, 2011)

H2grOw said:


> I am by no means an expert, but on the molasses subject, I do recall reading somewhere that plants can only absorb the simplest of sugars through their roots. In order to be absorbed by the plant, more complex sugars must be broken down first, usually by bacteria and organisims in the soil. The cell membranes on the roots act like the membrane in a RO water purifier. Particles below a certain size can pass freely back and forth, but larger ones are filtered out. This is just what I read, so take it with a grain of salt.


True. The molecule is too large to pass the root epidermal gradient. IMO, molasses apps to soil is a waste of time and money. "Some say" it feeds the soil microbes. So does pissin' into your pot. 

UB


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## lbezphil2005 (Jan 12, 2011)

fooster said:


> ok guys, so i been through two very successful harvest(potency), however, both harvest, was grown outdoor, but the second one very last part was finished indoor in led.
> First time strain was headband and jack herer both are clone.
> 
> second time is blue dream which also was from a clone
> ...


What size pots you growing in? Get bigger pots, bigger pots = bigger roots = bigger buds, simple


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## lbezphil2005 (Jan 12, 2011)

yemeneezer said:


> Nug size and density have alot more to due with the strain and genetics of the specific seed or clone you have.
> I work at a dispensary and have grown both Head band and Blue Dream, They both are heavy yielders with Blue Dream being much higher yielding, but not as dense.
> 
> 1) start with a known heavy yielding strain and reputable source.
> ...


 
what size pot was it grown in? the size of the pot is directly related to the size of the plant/bud


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## lbezphil2005 (Jan 12, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Thats untrue, molasses isn't absorbed by the plant whatsoever, it is used to feed the microherd
> in the media.
> 
> Honestly I have never seen any solid weight come out of LEDs. Maybe use them for vegetation or
> ...


kYou haven't been looking around the forums much. Check out Irishboys grows, also setting suns hid vs led grow. I do believe irishboy even one either plant or bud of the month, too, bro. And when i'm done with my harvest I'll be posting pics of some stuff done with a 600 watt LED that has 15 specturms including uv and 3 watt lights running over 2.5watts.


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## Shrubs First (Jan 12, 2011)

lbezphil2005 said:


> kYou haven't been looking around the forums much. Check out Irishboys grows, also setting suns hid vs led grow. I do believe irishboy even one either plant or bud of the month, too, bro. And when i'm done with my harvest I'll be posting pics of some stuff done with a 600 watt LED that has 15 specturms including uv and 3 watt lights running over 2.5watts.


I also just received a 600 Watt LED unit with "15 different spectrums" from a representative
of a company and can't wait to blow it away with my 600watt HID. 110x 6 Watt bulbs.

Who said I won anything?


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## farmboss (Jan 12, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> "Some say" it feeds the soil microbes. UB


some say it feeds CAPITALIST AMERIKA!


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## Viagro (Jan 13, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> ...
> Honestly I have never seen any solid weight come out of LEDs. Maybe use them for vegetation or support
> lighting. *HIDs are just much more efficient per harvest*. But LEDs do win in the energy bill.


That's simply untrue.

You are misrepresenting the facts. If you haven't seen, then you must not be looking, there are success stories everywhere. Like this one.


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## resinousflowers (Jan 13, 2011)

lbezphil2005 said:


> What size pots you growing in? Get bigger pots, bigger pots = bigger roots = bigger buds, simple


not always true.ppl have grown monsters in pots that look far too small for the plant.


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## resinousflowers (Jan 13, 2011)

Viagro said:


> That's simply untrue.
> 
> You are misrepresenting the facts. If you haven't seen, then you must not be looking, there are success stories everywhere. Like this one.


to be fair tho ive seen far more unsuccesful cases.many ppl always go back to hid lights after trying leds for flowering.but they do carry on using leds for veg.plus he didnt grow under hid and some under led.it was his friend who used a hid light.so the conditions he grew in compared to his friend may have been very different,plus he might have used better nutes and be a better grower.
many experienced growers like i said,go back to hids after trying leds because they were not happy with the results of the leds.


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## legallyflying (Jan 13, 2011)

Once you have 50 watts/ sq. ft. or more, CO2 will REALLY help produce dense buds. If you can grow healthy plants and have good climate control, Co2 will work WONDERS!

In regards to sugars, foliar feeding of sugars, amino acids, and fluvic acids will not be hindered by the casparian strip and you will get much better results (or at least not be wasting money by putting it in your rez or soil. People still water that shit in though... but people do allot of stupid shit... especially "hobby" MJ growers.


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## MVNuggets (Jan 13, 2011)

does 50 watts a SQ ft work for all lights (CFL, HID, HPS) for a guideline?


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## Shrubs First (Jan 13, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Once you have 50 watts/ sq. ft. or more, CO2 will REALLY help produce dense buds. If you can grow healthy plants and have good climate control, Co2 will work WONDERS!
> 
> In regards to sugars, foliar feeding of sugars, amino acids, and fluvic acids will not be hindered by the casparian strip and you will get much better results (or at least not be wasting money by putting it in your rez or soil. People still water that shit in though... but people do allot of stupid shit... especially "hobby" MJ growers.


Great input. I love fulvic foliars.


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## Shrubs First (Jan 13, 2011)

Viagro said:


> That's simply untrue.
> 
> You are misrepresenting the facts. If you haven't seen, then you must not be looking, there are success stories everywhere. Like this one.


Yes, quite the success story. Thanks for showing me. I will be trying a 600W panel in my
home room shortly. So we'll be able to see what it does in the same room vs a 600W Halide
and a 600W HPS.


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## lukey boii (Jan 13, 2011)

fooster said:


> ok guys, so i been through two very successful harvest(potency), however, both harvest, was grown outdoor, but the second one very last part was finished indoor in led.
> First time strain was headband and jack herer both are clone.
> 
> second time is blue dream which also was from a clone
> ...


Molasses and foliar feeding.


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## lukey boii (Jan 13, 2011)

MVNuggets said:


> does 50 watts a SQ ft work for all lights (CFL, HID, HPS) for a guideline?


No, the light intesity of each light is different and some disperse more even than others covering more ground.


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## Dirty Harry (Jan 13, 2011)

I am feeling good and in the mood for a little humor...
Keep rubbing the plants with toilet paper. It worked on my ex wife. Her ass ballooned huge...I mean something you would see in Walmart huge. 
But the above info is also good.


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## lukey boii (Jan 13, 2011)

Dirty Harry said:


> I am feeling good and in the mood for a little humor...
> Keep rubbing the plants with toilet paper. It worked on my ex wife. Her ass ballooned huge...I mean something you would see in Walmart huge.
> But the above info is also good.


Hahahahaha nice


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## shaney (Jan 13, 2011)

Easy bro. Pinch your growth inhibitors (apical tips) in preflower with your fingers. this is a stressing tekneque. The stress you putt on the tips with 1 good pinch will send the energy to the top to rebiuld it, and the result is bigger buds in the end, it's a good old school strick. stressing tekneques are great for example water deprivation during the flowering period will make your plant go into survival mode and it will produce more oils/resins. then water again the plant has just gained more resins and spruced right back up. same with pinching except it effects the growth hormones. If you ever broke a stock and fixed it you'll see that where it broke is the strongest part of the plant when it fully recorrects itself.


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## Pippy108 (Jan 14, 2011)

Hiya Uncle Ben - was just wondering if Bulb Boost (Espoma brand) is safe to topdress an indoor plant, until I can get out for more Schultz. Micro nutes (15) are listed on the bag and n-p-k is 4-10-6. I figure it can't hurt but thought I'd ask ya. The girls are flowering now for 2 weeks. And thanks for the great info on pinching the top. Folks I knew back in the 70's would talk of it, but I never bothered asking 'why, when and how' , since I never had an interest in growing.


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 14, 2011)

Pippy108 said:


> Hiya Uncle Ben - was just wondering if Bulb Boost (Espoma brand) is safe to topdress an indoor plant, until I can get out for more Schultz. .


Never heard of it.


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## Viagro (Jan 15, 2011)

Shrubs First said:


> Yes, quite the success story. Thanks for showing me. I will be trying a 600W panel in my
> home room shortly. So we'll be able to see what it does in the same room vs a 600W Halide
> and a 600W HPS.


I look forward to your comparison.


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## Viagro (Jan 15, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> True. The molecule is too large to pass the root epidermal gradient. IMO, molasses apps to soil is a waste of time and money. "Some say" it feeds the soil microbes. So does pissin' into your pot.
> 
> UB


I'm surprised at your opinion, and not the slightest mention of the chelating benefits of molasses. Think that is a waste of time, too?


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 15, 2011)

Viagro said:


> I'm surprised at your opinion, and not the slightest mention of the chelating benefits of molasses. Think that is a waste of time, too?


I think vendor ads are a waste of time. How about you? Point me in the direction of a bonafide scientific non-partisan study and I'll have a look.

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Jan 15, 2011)

Espoma - typical vendor hype: http://www.espoma.com/p_writers/press_kit/Understanding%20Fertilizers.pdf


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## ink the world (Jan 15, 2011)

To the OP:

I dont think there is 1 magic bullet, its more of a combination of factors. Pot size, plant nourishment, lighting all play a part....Like UB said get to know your plants, I have a perpetual grow w/ a 2 strains that always stay in the grow and many that I try...each strain has different needs as far as feeding, watering etc...

Dont get caught up in all the mumbo jumbo, this is not rocket science. Keep it simple, learn what your plants want/need and tweak accordingly.


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## Viagro (Jan 15, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> I think vendor ads are a waste of time. How about you? Point me in the direction of a bonafide scientific non-partisan study and I'll have a look.
> 
> UB


This is from another site, and was first on the OverGrow website, along with further info on chelation.

*...Molasses it turns out is a great source of that necessary Potassium. As we learned earlier, molasses also acts as a chelating agent and will help to make micronutrients in the Guano more easily available for our favorite herbs...*

It goes into great detail for anyone interested in using molasses, or just learning the facts about it. It refers to beet and cane molasses, but I've read not to use beet molasses, but I can't remember why. One flaw from this article, IMHO.

I have other references to molasses and chelation, but I don't have time to dig. Should be easy to scare up, for anyone truly interested.

​


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## Shrubs First (Jan 15, 2011)

Vinasse is a sugar extract containing a high concentration of Fulvic Acid. Sounds like
a win win.


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## Jmayne Chronic (Jan 19, 2011)

high pressure sodium bulbs


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## hazorazo (Jan 19, 2011)

tatamama said:


> Co2 co2 co2. The key to perfection.. trust in science.. and of course lots of light and nutes and right temps........


I second this.... and a good feeding schedule. Do you use clearex? Or some bud booster? Good luck man! tatamama had it right.


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## cameron666 (Jan 20, 2011)

does anyone think i would be able to get decent buds(potency+taste) with my setup(400w Sodium), for nutrients im using Ionic's Grow, Bloom & Boost. With my king kush plant i have it about 6-7 inches away from the bulb. Thanks
Pictures in sig;


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## fooster (Feb 4, 2011)

i am very happy with my current harvest of blue mystic, bubba kush, northern light 5 and chocolope under two 90 watt ufo and 4 23watt cfl.

the bubba kush and chocolope are in 1 gal pot, the rest r in two gal smart pot.

the nugs are HUGE!!!!

i think i hit the spot this time with the nutrients =)

thx ya'll!


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## fooster (Feb 4, 2011)

molasses help a heck load especially mixed with gravity and purple maxx


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## fooster (Feb 4, 2011)

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/399221-led-cfl-grow-pics-taken-2.html


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