# Babies drooping with 600W Lighting



## mytalizas32 (Apr 27, 2013)

Hi guys, I have six- 5gallon pots and if i hang the light level to the plants, they droop. So i have to hang it up higher. As soon as i lower it so that it can get the full light, it droops again. The are about a foot and a half away from the bare bulb. It's placed in a 4x4 room where the bulb is directly in the center of the room Anybody have this problem and have any tips?


----------



## HolySmoke420 (Apr 27, 2013)

whats the temp and humidity of the room? how often are you water and whats your pH? the light should be 10-16 inches from the tops of the plants so i'd say your good.


----------



## Turm (Apr 28, 2013)

Pics, and since youre doing a bare bulb in that size of a room I'm gonna guess its getting way too hot. Whats the temp? I have a 6x6x6 room and started off with a bare bulb, co2 enriched with 4 fans and I had to grab a cool tube to bring down the heat. Even with all that some days I'm still struggling to get it down 1 or 2 degrees.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 2, 2013)

Ok.. So those are the pics that I have of them 3 hours before the Dark cycle begins. The light is directly above the plants right now and they aren't getting the full force of the light but still droop. When the light comes back on, for another 2 hours, it still droops until it recovers. The room gets to about 85 degrees at times, but is heat the issue because I thought if it's too hot, the leaves will just do that weird curling at it's tips which it doesn't do. I water once every day but not a lot where it's overflowing from the bottom. Any ideas?


----------



## Turm (May 2, 2013)

Heat stress and over watering. I don't do soil but I know you're not supposed to water everyday. You need to leave them alone and get those temps down asap, imo 80F tops without co2.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 2, 2013)

Ok, Thanks Turm. I'll go easy on the watering and get some AC in the room.


----------



## Irie Genetics (May 3, 2013)

Whats with the bags around the buckets? Do you have holes in those buckets for excess water to drain out? The plants are too hot but they are also having water issues.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 4, 2013)

Irie Genetics said:


> Whats with the bags around the buckets? Do you have holes in those buckets for excess water to drain out? The plants are too hot but they are also having water issues.


I haven't had a chance to run to the hydro store to get the water catch tray so i used bags for now... ghetto.. i know. lol. i drilled holes on the bottom of the bucket so they excess water r/o does leave the bucket.


----------



## budster1340 (May 4, 2013)

Get some fans blowing directly on the light to help dissipate heat!


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 4, 2013)

So I lowered the heat down and the fan leaves are still doing this during the last few hours of the light cycle. Could it be that I dont have enough holes drilled on the bottom for excess water? But would that explain why the leaves are curling up like that? Are the lights not supposed to be directly leveled with the plants? Because if it's the light causing the fan leaves to curl up and dry up, and if I raise it higher above the plant level, how would the plant get the full light? Wouldn't it defeat the entire purpose of a Vertical light?


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 4, 2013)

budster1340 said:


> Get some fans blowing directly on the light to help dissipate heat!


 I have a fan directly below the light blowing the heat up.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 6, 2013)

Any other help? I've lowered the room temp down and it's still drooping. Keep in mind it's bare bulb. There's a fan under the bulb blowing up and there's ac in the room. I have an adjustable ballast so it's currently at 50% right now. As soon as I lower the bulb so that it's leveled with the plants, they start to droop and dry up. How do other 600watt grows do it in a 4x4 room?


----------



## Chumlee1228 (May 6, 2013)

Watering with cold water can cause them to droop. I let my water sit out to get to room temp to reduce shock to the plant.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 6, 2013)

Chumlee1228 said:


> Watering with cold water can cause them to droop. I let my water sit out to get to room temp to reduce shock to the plant.


my water is at room temp so I dont think that could be the issue.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 6, 2013)

From these new pictures, it looks like it's about the same distance as other 600w grows. Its my first Vert grow so let me know if Im missing something Thanks


----------



## BDog76 (May 7, 2013)

mytalizas32 said:


> View attachment 2646002
> 
> From these new pictures, it looks like it's about the same distance as other 600w grows. Its my first Vert grow so let me know if Im missing something Thanks


Greetings Mytalizas, Quick cpl questions. Do you have any actual air (fan or fans) blowing ON your plants? Or just the fan blowing on your lamp for whatever reason?? Also, do you have a reflector for that 600 that you can change back to horizontal?? And finally, is that aluminum foil on your walls (I can't make out on the pics)? Mylar or flat white would give you a lot more reflection IMHO.
A couple of the girls look pretty good, but I really think you could be getting more for your bang with that set up. NOT being negative at all & I do wish you the best of luck with it!!!


----------



## deephouser (May 7, 2013)

My plants drooped overnight (during their light cycle). Also using 600 watts, but in an air cooled hood. Temps never go out of the 60s, humidity has risen a bit, into the 60s as well. Never had a problem...then I switched from the 600 MH to the 600 HPS and they drooped. Also had been more than 24 hours since watering. Any ideas? Not trying to thread hijack, but could be beneficial for all.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 7, 2013)

BDog76 said:


> Greetings Mytalizas, Quick cpl questions. Do you have any actual air (fan or fans) blowing ON your plants? Or just the fan blowing on your lamp for whatever reason?? Also, do you have a reflector for that 600 that you can change back to horizontal?? And finally, is that aluminum foil on your walls (I can't make out on the pics)? Mylar or flat white would give you a lot more reflection IMHO.
> A couple of the girls look pretty good, but I really think you could be getting more for your bang with that set up. NOT being negative at all & I do wish you the best of luck with it!!!


No, no fans blowing on the girls but the fan i have below the bulb is on full blast, so it's moving lots of air throughout the entire room. No, I dont have a reflector. I assume you want me to change it back to reflector to see if it is indeed because the bulb may be too close to the plants? No, its not foil on the wall. It's a grow tent that is lined with reflective material. I appreciate your input, whatever else you can help with would be great.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 7, 2013)

deephouser said:


> My plants drooped overnight (during their light cycle). Also using 600 watts, but in an air cooled hood. Temps never go out of the 60s, humidity has risen a bit, into the 60s as well. Never had a problem...then I switched from the 600 MH to the 600 HPS and they drooped. Also had been more than 24 hours since watering. Any ideas? Not trying to thread hijack, but could be beneficial for all.


Plants normally do some drooping during dark cycle, but i think the difference with my babies are that they droop a couple hours right before the light goes off. So I raised the light, which stopped the drooping. Whats the distance of the bulb to the girls? I've done horizontal 1000 w before and i've experience drooping in the beginning stages after introducing the new clones to the 1000 w. What i'd do is raise the light really high and then as the clones grew bigger, i slowly raised it to the correct distance and no problem from there. 

The difference with this vert grow is that it's in a 4x4 room, where the bulb is directly in the center of the room, with the girls about 12-16 inches away + bare bulb, so im not able to ease in the light so that they get used to it. Im curious what other Bare Bulb 600 Club members do to avoid this issue?.


----------



## SensiHerb (May 7, 2013)

if you arent watering to the point where there is no run-off at the bottom i would say definitely water MORE, but less often. 10% of the water you use should run off


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 7, 2013)

SensiHerb said:


> if you arent watering to the point where there is no run-off at the bottom i would say definitely water MORE, but less often. 10% of the water you use should run off


I just watered yesterday with run off and haven't watered today and it doesn't look like i will need to until maybe friday


----------



## contraptionated (May 8, 2013)

mytalizas32 said:


> Ok, Thanks Turm. I'll go easy on the watering and get some AC in the room.


. May I suggest an alternative ventilation scenario? Air conditioning units used for cooling grow rooms defeat or hinder any effort to eliminate odors leaking out of the room due to the impossibility of creating a negative air pressure that would prevent odors from leaking out (either with or without a carbon scrubber). Also, it is much more efficient to cool such a room with a centrifugal blower/carbon filter/silencer combination. By using a centrifugal blower/extractor you can have the air constantly replenished which is key for good plant growth. Also, when someone shows me a room with co2 that works to improve flowering weight and also doesn't have odor leakage problems Ill climb to the top of the Empire State Building with nothing but a few aquarium heater suction cups. Better still, when you ask proponents of the co2/ac unit ventilation scenario how to control odors getting out, they suggest a carbon scrubber in the room!! With a little bit of reading you will learn that carbon removes everything from the air, including co2. Air extraction will always work better than an ac unit / co2 combo unless the grow room is super tiny.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 8, 2013)

contraptionated said:


> . May I suggest an alternative ventilation scenario? Air conditioning units used for cooling grow rooms defeat or hinder any effort to eliminate odors leaking out of the room due to the impossibility of creating a negative air pressure that would prevent odors from leaking out (either with or without a carbon scrubber). Also, it is much more efficient to cool such a room with a centrifugal blower/carbon filter/silencer combination. By using a centrifugal blower/extractor you can have the air constantly replenished which is key for good plant growth. Also, when someone shows me a room with co2 that works to improve flowering weight and also doesn't have odor leakage problems Ill climb to the top of the Empire State Building with nothing but a few aquarium heater suction cups. Better still, when you ask proponents of the co2/ac unit ventilation scenario how to control odors getting out, they suggest a carbon scrubber in the room!! With a little bit of reading you will learn that carbon removes everything from the air, including co2. Air extraction will always work better than an ac unit / co2 combo unless the grow room is super tiny.


Well I've already had a carbon scrubber in the room taking air out of the room before the AC was installed, but still the same issue. It really doesn't seem like a problem with the ventilation because I just upped the ballast to 75% last night, and sure enough the fan leaves are curling and drooping. It really seems like light shock when you first transplant the babies under a stronger light. What im wondering is, how do the 4x4ft room guys who uses 600watts avoid this issue.


----------



## sourpuss (May 9, 2013)

Id say your root system is not ready for the light didnt look at the pics, curl up could b ph problem but I think since it matters where the light is points to roots not being large enough and plant is not taking in enough moisture compared to whats escaping or being used.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 9, 2013)

sourpuss said:


> Id say your root system is not ready for the light didnt look at the pics, curl up could b ph problem but I think since it matters where the light is points to roots not being large enough and plant is not taking in enough moisture compared to whats escaping or being used.



I'd say that's a great possibility. How long do u think i should allow the roots to settle in. I'ts been 3 weeks and 2 days since i transplanted them... If this is really the case.. then do you think i should do 50% for a few more days, then slowly up the power?


----------



## Prawn Connery (May 11, 2013)

mytalizas32 said:


> View attachment 2642948View attachment 2642949 So I lowered the heat down and the fan leaves are still doing this during the last few hours of the light cycle. Could it be that I dont have enough holes drilled on the bottom for excess water? But would that explain why the leaves are curling up like that? Are the lights not supposed to be directly leveled with the plants? Because if it's the light causing the fan leaves to curl up and dry up, and if I raise it higher above the plant level, how would the plant get the full light? Wouldn't it defeat the entire purpose of a Vertical light?


That tip curling in the second photo is definitely heat stress. See how it does it right at the tips of the leaves? They're closest to the light. Either your young plants are too close, or your floor fan isn't doing its job properly.

As for your plants "drooping", the most obvious answer is it is completely normal. Your plants are tilting their leaves towards the light source - which happens to be vertical - and so this gives the appearance of the plants "drooping". My plants do it all the time.

The fact your plants stop doing this when you raise the light is proof: leaves on any plant will follow the sun as it moves across the horizon during the day to mazimise photosynthesis. Some leaves will fold up or actually face away from the sun if it gets too strong (hot) as a preservation mechanism. But in your case the leaves are simply following the light.

Plants are living organisms that respond to stimuli. They react to all kinds of things. The real art to growing is being able to read your plants to see what they are telling you.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 11, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> That tip curling in the second photo is definitely heat stress. See how it does it right at the tips of the leaves? They're closest to the light. Either your young plants are too close, or your floor fan isn't doing its job properly.
> 
> As for your plants "drooping", the most obvious answer is it is completely normal. Your plants are tilting their leaves towards the light source - which happens to be vertical - and so this gives the appearance of the plants "drooping". My plants do it all the time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the info. For the curling, that happened before I put in a stong fan, so ive got that problem out of the way.

The point you made about the fan leaves "drooping" is that they are following the light is totally valid and I understand your explanation. My question would then be, if it is indeed following the light, is it normal for the fan leaf stem to be arched as it would be arched when drooping? The overall state of the plant I would best explain it is that it looks weak and frail. Ill go ahead and lower it again and take more pictures to monitor.


----------



## Prawn Connery (May 11, 2013)

As I'm not in your grow room, I can't be 100% sure. What I do know is that classic leaf drooping is a symptom of water stress - either underwatering or overwatering.

Leaves also droop during the dark period when they are not photosynthesising.

And then there is the plant's response to stimuli - leaves following a light source (either "standing up" to reach an overhead light, or turning towards a side-on light).

Underwatering is easy to tell, as the leaves not only droop, but appear paper-thin. This is because there is less water in the plant, so there is less hydraulic (hydrostatic) pressure in the stems (which cause the leaves to droop), while the leaves themselves will feel thinner because there is less water in the cell membranes.

Overwatering shows similar symptoms, but the leaves are normal thickness, or slightly thicker, as they have plenty of water in the cell membranes, which weigh the leaves down (normal water transfer inside the plant can't happen because the roots are starved of oxygen and not functioning properly as they begin to die off). The plant becomes "waterlogged" - for want of a better term.

Plants droop during the dark period because they are not photosynthesising - they are respiring. During photosynthesis, plants convert sunlight into sugars using water and carbon dioxide. During the dark period, they use oxygen to convert those sugars into energy. Photosynthesis, therefore, requires light - which is why the leaves turn towards any light source (obviously) - and water - which is why the leaves are "perky", because there is a lot of hydrostatic pressure, or water movement, inside the plant.

During the dark period, there is less hydrostatic pressure (no photosynthesis), and so the leaves "droop" - this is perfectly normal. It is reasoned that most plants also "droop" at night because water (moisture/humidity/rain etc) drips off the leaves and prevents mold and other pathogens from taking hold.

Which brings us back to your particular "drooping" leaves. As I said earlier, if your plants "droop" when the light is next to them, yet point upwards when you raise the light, then this indicates they are healthy and simply following light-sourced stimuli to better photosynthesise.

Apart from a bit of leaf-tip stress, your plants look healthy to me - no signs of water stress - so in my opinion, my first explanation is the most likely.


----------



## Prawn Connery (May 11, 2013)

Yes, it is normal for the leaf stems to arch over, as they are attached to the main stem at an angle. Your plants look pretty good in your most recent photos. You may have been overwatering them a bit when they were smaller. With soil, you want your pots to dry out a bit in-between waterings. Feel the weight of your pots - that will tell you when they have dried out sufficiently for another watering.

Also, resist the temptation to overfeed your plants, as overfertilising burns/kills more seedlings and plants than anything else you are likely to see on any cannaboard. I'd list it as the #1 mistake newbs and even experienced growers make. Less is more when growing - you'd be surprised how little nutrient plants need (they get most of their energy from the sun).


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 12, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Yes, it is normal for the leaf stems to arch over, as they are attached to the main stem at an angle. Your plants look pretty good in your most recent photos. You may have been overwatering them a bit when they were smaller. With soil, you want your pots to dry out a bit in-between waterings. Feel the weight of your pots - that will tell you when they have dried out sufficiently for another watering.
> 
> Also, resist the temptation to overfeed your plants, as overfertilising burns/kills more seedlings and plants than anything else you are likely to see on any cannaboard. I'd list it as the #1 mistake newbs and even experienced growers make. Less is more when growing - you'd be surprised how little nutrient plants need (they get most of their energy from the sun).



Thanks Prawn for the in depth explanation. I will keep in mind what youve said. I'll be taking some more pictures today to show you it's progress.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 12, 2013)

This fan leaf is so big... 

And it looks like i have spidermites. I have little webs on the fan leaves and picked this bad boy off to take a picture.


----------



## grower2013 (May 15, 2013)

looking good


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 16, 2013)

I dont know what it is, but i no longer have this drooping problem. It could possibly be the overwatering. I stopped watering every 2 days and watered the 4th day. Either that, or the plant is stronger now and is able to take the light power like I mentioned regarding the 1000 watt light and easing it in.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 16, 2013)




----------



## Prawn Connery (May 18, 2013)

You need to get on to those spider mites. If they're already at the web-spinning stage, they will quickly take hold.

We use Eco Oil in Australia - if you can find something similar in your part of the world, it is the safest and most effective organic treatment against spider mites. It also works on aphids and fungus gnat larvae (soil/coco treatment). White Oil (petroleum-based) also works, but it is very harsh on your plants and should never be used when grow-room temps are higher than 30C, as you will burn your plants. Eco Oil is much gentler on plants, and deadly effective against mites.


----------



## sourpuss (May 24, 2013)

Yes kill those spider mites or you will have a ruined harvest if it even gets there


----------



## sourpuss (May 24, 2013)

I highly recommend coco instead of soil, just use a little perlite with it anf it has advantages for the newbie.


----------



## mytalizas32 (May 26, 2013)

Hey guys, I bought this Vapona Bug Strip that I placed inside the room and it killed all of the spider mites without a fight. I've used it before when my plants were infected with Root Aphids and it worked well then, still works well now with Spider Mites.


----------



## sourpuss (Jun 8, 2013)

Good to know. Spider mites r serious fukers


----------

