# Thermal detection 400 watt or 600 watt hps lamp



## Denza (Oct 11, 2012)

Hi, i was wandering how much risk do you have of getting caught due thermal detection (so called FLIR technique) with a 250w, 400w or 600 watt lamp.

As far as I know the light / heat coming out of these lamps are the following:

250 HPS = 28.500 lumen / 70 F / 21 C
400 HPS = 50.000 lumen / 99 F / 37.5 C
600 HPS = 95.000 lumen / 159 F / 71 C

The formula is taken of the net suggesting that each 1000 lumens creates a temp increase of 0,75 Celcius.

I have read stories of people telling not to worry about thermal detection if you ain't using above 2000 watt lightning. But if I look at 1 hps lamp of 600 watt I get a lit affraid of the amount of energy it produces. And realy turning into a hotspot. As for the 250 HPS I am totally not afraid. 

Can somebody give me a clue if I'm worried too much or not.


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## Blacktophat (Oct 11, 2012)

"fuck tha police"


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## trufflechef (Oct 11, 2012)

Thermal imagery can only tell you the surface temperature of something, so unless your heating the wall and or roof to an excessive degree its useless. You should be controling your grow room temps to parimeters required by plants so your room wont be 75 degrees will it.


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## greenguerilla (Oct 11, 2012)

Get used to the paranoia. It sucks, but will keep you safe. Where I live, a thermal scan is considered an invasion of privacy. Just like a phone tap, law enforcement has to obtain a warrant from a judge in order to utilize such measures. In order for a judge to issue a warrant, there has to be "probable cause". So if law enforcement is using a thermal scan specifically on your property, they already have other evidence against you. For law enforcement to potentially violate your civil rights, they need lots of evidence to support probable cause. Violations of civil rights is "fortunately" the biggest obstacle for law enforcement. 
When you see the helicopters on TV showing the thermal scans, you are witnessing a high degree of propaganda. Even if discovered with a "fly-by" scan, they cant just knock on your door and ask to inspect your home. 
PLEASE PLEASE understand. I am referring to your average home grower. Not the idiot that rents a house out to convert every room for growing. 20,000W of HPS lights burning in a house will attract a lot of attention. You guys are just asking for trouble!!
Keep it simple, be careful and think about what you're doing, and you'll be fine. If you don't act like you're doing anything wrong, no one pays attention.

If you're really worried about it, simply run your lights during the day. Even on a cloudy day, the roof gets hot enough to block any kind of thermal scan from above. I run my flowering room from 7AM to 7PM. 2 x 1000W HPS


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## althor (Oct 11, 2012)

Seriously man, my ceiling fan holds 5 bulbs.
If I am running 5 100 watt bulbs in my ceiling fan do you honestly think the police would come charging in due to "thermal detection"?

Now if you are running several 1000 watt bulbs and blowing off 100+ degree exhaust showing some major blimp on the screen, then you might have an issue.


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## zer0ed (Oct 11, 2012)

Its not the bulbs you have to worry about.
The FLIR dosn't really look for the bulbs. because they can only read surface outside temps.

What you really need to be careful of, is your exhaust vent.
That's what they are looking for.
a exhaust vent glows white hot, on their FLIR.

So don't exhaust out a window.
and DON'T exhaust out a vent on the roof.


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## Denza (Oct 11, 2012)

Well the answers did not help me out in my choice of picking which bulb to use.

Will the temperature drop beneath 70 F if i would use a 250 HPS lamp with G-tools exhaust fan of 360 m3 with an ambient room temp of 70 F. My grow room is 300 m3.

* for the thermal question i think i go with some isolation , mylar and a wet towel now and then on the outside exhaust fan on the roof (which is simple to access).


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## Rhyspect (Oct 12, 2012)

if you insulate your grow area then ventilate a sealed area on the outside, i was considering the application of a vented tent covering a celotex room with cool tubes. then cover with an IR proof covering, if you have anymore applications please let me know.


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## Rhyspect (Oct 12, 2012)

best venting is either the sewers, (be carefull of where your drains are outside...) and chimney (the smell is over head and difficult to pinpoint) but you cant take out bricks from a chimney however you like.


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## newbie4485 (Oct 12, 2012)

where do you blow your exhaust then if not into the ceilig? i thought it wuld be a decent idea to allow it to run into the attick and spread out in my attic space to avoid detection.v


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## pagger (Oct 13, 2012)

newbie4485 like already pointed out its the amount of heat that gives people away not light. if youre just using the one 600w then scrubb and blow into loft bt be carefull of it starting to make loft damp cos of warm air hitting cold! the usual percy grower doing a cupple plants and a 600 is realy unlikely to be detected besides his own mouth!


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## robert 14617 (Oct 13, 2012)

flir cameras are available at rental stores everywhere , one night shut everything down , take some scans then fire it up and run that camera again. you will know what you can run as far as watts


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## MrMeanGreen (Oct 13, 2012)

Rhyspect said:


> best venting is either the sewers, (be carefull of where your drains are outside...) and chimney (the smell is over head and difficult to pinpoint) but you cant take out bricks from a chimney however you like.


Sorry, bad advise. No domestic heating system / fire vents hot air at 500-700cfm up your chimney. The heat signature will be obvious to the copters. As much as possible circulate back into your house, recycle and use the same air from your house to cool your lighting. If you dont recirculate and recycle, you will have hot plumes pouring out of every window in your house. If you pulling 500-700 cfm of cool fresh air into your house then 500-700 cfm will be pushed out again, none of your neighbours will have the same signature and you will be pure bait mate.

Get it wrong at your peril. Heat is the key to not getting caught, amongst other things.


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## newbie4485 (Oct 25, 2012)

pagger said:


> newbie4485 like already pointed out its the amount of heat that gives people away not light. if youre just using the one 600w then scrubb and blow into loft bt be carefull of it starting to make loft damp cos of warm air hitting cold! the usual percy grower doing a cupple plants and a 600 is realy unlikely to be detected besides his own mouth!


 aappreciate the reply. Im well aware you cant see a light through a freaking wall. And i know the trick is to spread the heat out. so it doesnt stick out, which is better, uder the house or into the loft?


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## D3monic (Oct 25, 2012)

I vent into the attic but I also only run LED's and 6 plants. Your biggest concern should be scrubbing. Carbon filtration. Smell will give you away before heat. Vent into attic, crawlspace ect. Where ever heat would spread out most. You could even vent into another room of the house during winter and help save on heating costs by recycling the energy your using/creating.

but like said a few posts ago. Moisture is a concern when venting into those areas as it could lead to mold. I for one am going into foreclosure so I don't really care.


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## Clown Baby (Oct 25, 2012)

Sealed rooms don't need to vent anywhere!


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## D3monic (Oct 25, 2012)

My blower raised my 6x8' closet by 10 degrees forcing me to vent. It WAS sealed until I added the filter and blower.


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## LeafGnosis (Oct 26, 2012)

D3monic said:


> I vent into the attic but I also only run LED's and 6 plants. Your biggest concern should be scrubbing. Carbon filtration. Smell will give you away before heat. Vent into attic, crawlspace ect. Where ever heat would spread out most. You could even vent into another room of the house during winter and help save on heating costs by recycling the energy your using/creating.
> 
> but like said a few posts ago. Moisture is a concern when venting into those areas as it could lead to mold. I for one am going into foreclosure so I don't really care.



This is a very good way of heating colder parts of your house... I will be doing this in the basement so that it will keep the basement warm... or out into my garage keeping that nice and warm. Some space heaters will put out about as much heat as a 400 watt, ones you do not want to touch. So I am sure that my 600 watt hps will keep the basement nice and toasty.. also allowing heat to rise and warm the bottom of the floor up too.. I have a DE-humidifier for the summer that just may come in handy this winter (will check with the meter once it is up and running.. not to mention that the basement get's very dry during the winter so this may be a ++).


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## robert 14617 (Oct 27, 2012)

D3monic said:


> but like said a few posts ago. Moisture is a concern when venting into those areas as it could lead to mold. I for one am going into foreclosure so I don't really care.


this fucking sucks sorry to hear this , think about turning every spare sq inch into grow room , walk away with lbs


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## brotherjericho (Oct 27, 2012)

newbie4485 said:


> where do you blow your exhaust then if not into the ceilig? i thought it wuld be a decent idea to allow it to run into the attick and spread out in my attic space to avoid detection.v


Exhausting anything into the ceiling is a recipe for home disaster. You are exhausting heat and moisture, and you can develop mold.


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## jondamon (Oct 27, 2012)

brotherjericho said:


> Exhausting anything into the ceiling is a recipe for home disaster. You are exhausting heat and moisture, and you can develop mold.



If done correctly, this is not a recipe for disaster. 

You can ventilate your own loft with cross flow of air to keep mould etc from forming. 

Their are ventilation kits you can purchase which are fitted into your roof felting, by doing this and adding soffit ventilation along your fascia boards creates adequate enough cross flow to keep your loft cool and to keep air from becoming stale. 

I too was worried and as such researched it fully. After an outlay of around £100 my loft area stays cool with great airflow and no sign of dampness or mould 


if you are in the UK look at easyvents. Cheap at £6.50 per vent. I used 12 then added some 70mm soffit vents. 




Jon


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## thinn (Oct 28, 2012)

I was watching a grow tent set up vid last night and stumbled across this after it was over...this guy says vent under the house to allow the heat to disperse and cool before it rises

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sudf5xDIhmM&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Denza (Oct 28, 2012)

As I originally started the topic I have set my mind in purchasing the Secret Jardin DR 120 II (120x120x200 (cm)) with a 400 watt hps. With a 10 m silent air hose I can't vent it in 3 different rooms. With one room being the shower , 2nd the boiler room and 3rd main living room. At first I will do this manually or possible in the near future through extensions on the ventilation system. 

I'm also in the race of insulating my exhaust vent with some kind of coating.

About the FLIR, is like you guys say it is all about the surface temperatures. Keeping ambient roomtemperatures of 24 c degrees (75 Fahrenheit) and not directly exhausting in the outside air will avoid any detection.


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## smokejoint (Nov 19, 2012)

greenguerilla said:


> Get used to the paranoia. It sucks, but will keep you safe. Where I live, a thermal scan is considered an invasion of privacy. Just like a phone tap, law enforcement has to obtain a warrant from a judge in order to utilize such measures. In order for a judge to issue a warrant, there has to be "probable cause". So if law enforcement is using a thermal scan specifically on your property, they already have other evidence against you. For law enforcement to potentially violate your civil rights, they need lots of evidence to support probable cause. Violations of civil rights is "fortunately" the biggest obstacle for law enforcement.
> When you see the helicopters on TV showing the thermal scans, you are witnessing a high degree of propaganda. Even if discovered with a "fly-by" scan, they cant just knock on your door and ask to inspect your home.
> PLEASE PLEASE understand. I am referring to your average home grower. Not the idiot that rents a house out to convert every room for growing. 20,000W of HPS lights burning in a house will attract a lot of attention. You guys are just asking for trouble!!
> Keep it simple, be careful and think about what you're doing, and you'll be fine. If you don't act like you're doing anything wrong, no one pays attention.
> ...


^ This

I was thinking about the propoganda aspect of it myself the other day as i have just started my own little 250 watt grow.I asked myself some questions and came to the conclusion that propoganda has to be a factor.

Think of this ok.If your central heating is on and your neighbours is not.Your house is going to be glowing with heat compared to your neighbours.Now ,has anyone ever had their door busted down because of this? I think not.

If you ever watched any of the youtube videos on flir ,theres a few good ones of a police helicopter flying around picking out houses.Not one hot spot could i find that could be a radiator at the other side of the wall.. and someone has bound to have their heating on! 

Also in same video the copper points out a" suspicious" house that is warmer than the one next to it ...again is it not possible the heating is on in one and not the other?!

Apart from one part of the video where there is a definite glow on the roof of one house , my guess is some noob has a 1000 watter suspended really close to the rafters of his roof.Apart from doing that i don't see a police heli seeing a small light situated in your closet or similar area.

At any given moment in peoples homes there could be something warm , a lizard tank , a microwave oven , a space heater ,a cooker ,a hot shower ,the hot water tank ,the radiators ,a powerful computer system.

I belive they cannot detect individual heat sources in the home ,unless we are talking 1000 watts or more in a really stupid location

My guess is ,the coppers are trying to pick up gang run grow houses ,with many thousands of watts being used.This will heat a house up like a beacon and then they can look a little closer ,and probably simply walking up to the property they will then smell the weed and get a warrant.They can't get a warrant just because you have a warm house ,for reason stated above.SO i think you will be totally safe with a small light.

most grows get busted simply because of loose lips.Don't tell anyone and noone can grass you up ,accidently or on purpose.


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## willowpinnerblunt (Nov 19, 2012)

WHY Do people always get paranoid about this! Unless your whole house is a dedicated grow house you HAVE NO WORRIES ABOUT THIS. The attic alone in my whole house is always hotter than my grow room on the first floor. So it makes no sense to worry when you think about! been doing this for many many years indoors and out and choppers fly over all the time and 90 percent are medical choppers anyway.


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