# Jesus are you real?



## PokerJay83 (Sep 24, 2019)

Do you believe Jesus existed and was real? Why do you believe or not believe? This great little tune by mason Jennings - Jesus are you real, Seems pretty objective. Great smoking song.


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## New Age United (Sep 24, 2019)

Great song thanks for sharing


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## dandyrandy (Sep 24, 2019)




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## Observe & Report (Sep 24, 2019)

We don't have to wonder about Mohammed, he was definitely real. Also real people were Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, Jim Jones, and Sai Baba - both times!


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## RocketBoy (Sep 24, 2019)

Yea he's real, he just cut my law the other day.


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## sourpower (Sep 24, 2019)

The letter j is around 4 or 5 hundred years old..google it..if the bible is real they changed the names.


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## RocketBoy (Sep 24, 2019)

sourpower said:


> The letter j is around 4 or 5 hundred years old..google it..if the bible is real they changed the names.


Jews believe he was real, but they also believe he was a con artis and his mother a whore.


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## sourpower (Sep 24, 2019)

Yes they have a love hate for jesus


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## Lord Bonkey (Sep 24, 2019)

yup hes real, and God


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## PokerJay83 (Sep 25, 2019)

I have found evidence in Jewish Antiquity via Josephus Flavious that he may have existed. The life of Paul is way documented as well. The thing that bothers me is that it’s the same story as the Egyptian Horus. 12 apostles 3 day resurrection and all.


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## Ozmap (Sep 25, 2019)

Oh, I LOVE joining scientific discussions! Oh, wait. Nevermind.


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## Lord Bonkey (Sep 25, 2019)

PokerJay83 said:


> I have found evidence in Jewish Antiquity via Josephus Flavious that he may have existed. The life of Paul is way documented as well. The thing that bothers me is that it’s the same story as the Egyptian Horus. 12 apostles 3 day resurrection and all.


imagine unironically believing zeitgeist and freemasons in general
embarassing


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## PokerJay83 (Sep 25, 2019)

Lord Bonkey said:


> imagine unironically believing zeitgeist and freemasons in general
> embarassing


can you expand on that?


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## Lord Bonkey (Sep 25, 2019)

I can but it kind of depends on what you know already

are you familiar with theosophy and masonry?

or European history since the 1492 expulsion?

I cant post links, but google memoirs illustrating the history of jacobinism
that book has 4 volumes, might be a good place to start to get an idea about the 500 year old war going on

if you want to see it in vivid colour
google the amazon synod


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## PokerJay83 (Sep 25, 2019)

Lord Bonkey said:


> I can but it kind of depends on what you know already
> 
> are you familiar with theosophy and masonry?
> 
> ...


I am vaguely aware of the history of masonry and its attachment to Babylon and ancient Egypt but I don't know those phrases you speak of. will look into it. can you post the link?


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## gwheels (Sep 25, 2019)

sourpower said:


> The letter j is around 4 or 5 hundred years old..google it..if the bible is real they changed the names.


It was probably in Hebrew...because English wasn't spoken in that part of the world. 
So the J has no bearing.


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## Lord Bonkey (Sep 25, 2019)

PokerJay83 said:


> I am vaguely aware of the history of masonry and its attachment to Babylon and ancient Egypt but I don't know those phrases you speak of. will look into it. can you post the link?


I cant post links yet unfortunately
masonry is more kabbalah than it is pythagorean, but you will learn all that over the next year or two, welcome to the battle


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## Dalek Supreme (Sep 25, 2019)

New Testament Narrative as Old Testament Midrash

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/art_midrash1.htm

Why the Gospels are Myth


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## Dalek Supreme (Sep 26, 2019)

PokerJay83 said:


> I have found evidence in Jewish Antiquity via Josephus Flavious that he may have existed. The life of Paul is way documented as well. The thing that bothers me is that it’s the same story as the Egyptian Horus. 12 apostles 3 day resurrection and all.


*The Josephus Testimonium: Let’s Just Admit It’s Fake Already*

*https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/7437*

*Josephus and Jesus: The Testimonium Flavianum Question*

*http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html*

*How Did Christianity Switch to a Historical Jesus?*

*https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13425*

*The Historicity of Paul the Apostle*

*https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/7643*

*Desperately Searching the Epistles for Anything That Attests a Historical Jesus*

*https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/12220*

*Acts as Historical Fiction*

*



*
*Was Christianity Too Improbable to be False? *

*https://infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/improbable/index.html*


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## dandyrandy (Sep 26, 2019)

When you get sick do you go to the doctor? 
Faith fail...


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## PokerJay83 (Sep 26, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> When you get sick do you go to the doctor?
> Faith fail...


No you are not very bright... wake up bro.. nothing but conjecture on the politics threads... you took offense because you are either extremely naive or because you have skin in the game. Now go back to watching mainstream news and it might dawn on you in a few years that I was correct on everything I said.. welcome to ignore-vile population = you.


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## RocketBoy (Sep 26, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> When you get sick do you go to the doctor?
> Faith fail...


Unless that faith is in modern medicine and medical science, then I would consider that a win.


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## Ozmap (Sep 26, 2019)

I have read the bible quite a few times. I think that it is a great (although very gruesome) story, almost on par with the likes of J.R.R Tolkien, Lewis Carroll, Mark Twain, or William Shakespeares stories, in quality. I think it is the only story that I have read though, where the 'goodie' kills 3,000,000 times more people, than the 'baddie' does, though.

Luckily, it was because the infallible creator of those people, had the hindsight to see that they wouldn't pay him money every Sunday, but somehow not the foresight to not 'create' them at all. I guess he was giving them 'free will' to choose to condemn themselves, if they choose something other than slavery.

I haven't dragged out a bible for a very long time but I think that a debate using _facts only_ could be amusing for me, educational for those who don't know, and (hopefully enlightening and life changing) for those who have been sucked into believing in this childish belief.

I was brought up with it. I never believed it, but at the same time, as a kid it terrified me, as in: ...what if? ...or 'just in case'. If it _was_ true, it would terrify me, even now. It is a scary fucking story, if you understand it. As an adult, if I found out that someone was reading the bible to their kids before bed, I'd kick the shit out of them for being a horrible parent/person. Probably how it became the biggest business in the world.

My nana has bought TWO HOUSES for 'god' (that she'll _admit_ to) in her life. She lives now in a rental, her six kids all chipping in for the rent. In her eyes, her _god_ is _providing_ for her.

NO HE ISN'T!! WAKE UP, NANA!!

Unfortunately, she can't be logical about her 85 year old brainwash, but if there is someone that WANTS to be rid of this cult, I believe that I can at least point them in the right direction, without making them feel stupid for being brainwashed. Post what convincing thing that you find keeps you in your religious belief, and I will show you rationally, (and respectfully), why it is not worth being a slave to a business whose only expensive, necessary, recurring product, is to keep you from an imaginary place of eternal torture.

I'm not an anti-religion troll. If you think that an omnipotent creator judges everything that you do, let me help you to see that it is not so, at all. No confessions, please. No PMs, what I have to say on the matter, should benefit all, without repetition.

What makes you believe in your god? ....also, the OP asks, "Jesus Are You Real?"

...Not trying to hijack a thread, but between all of us, I'm sure we can come up with a rational answer to this.

PS, I'll most likely ignore stupid people and their posts.


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## Observe & Report (Sep 26, 2019)

Lord Bonkey said:


> yup hes real, and God


How do you know Jesus wasn't actually Satan tricking people into worshiping him so he could torture their souls?

It is totally consistent with all of the evidence. From the first commandment being "no gods before me" and god never saying he's going to send Jesus in the first bible, to all the magic tricks that Jesus did to convince you to worship him.

Can you really be sure you are worshiping the real god and not the devil?


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## Dalek Supreme (Sep 26, 2019)

Observe & Report said:


> ...and god never saying he's going to send Jesus in the first bible,


Jesus is the OT being the Divine Word. But that takes a lot of explaining. 

Hint: Jesus is as real as Satan. Just as real as Moroni for Mormonism, and Gabriel for Islam.


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## mysunnyboy (Sep 28, 2019)

Hell yes I believe


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## mysunnyboy (Sep 28, 2019)

dandyrandy said:


> When you get sick do you go to the doctor?
> Faith fail...


And how did this doctor person come into being? 
Faith rules, it’s so easy to not believe. 
Good thing we’re not all weak.


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## mysunnyboy (Sep 28, 2019)

@Ozmap seriuosly? You’ve read the Bible how many times? I’m serious.
How did you tackle this feat? Straight through starting IN THE BEGINNING? What version do you prefer? Did you use any type of assistant or reference guide?


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## PokerJay83 (Sep 28, 2019)

Observe & Report said:


> How do you know Jesus wasn't actually Satan tricking people into worshiping him so he could torture their souls?
> 
> It is totally consistent with all of the evidence. From the first commandment being "no gods before me" and god never saying he's going to send Jesus in the first bible, to all the magic tricks that Jesus did to convince you to worship him.
> 
> Can you really be sure you are worshiping the real god and not the devil?




Reminds me of the end of this Song.


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## Ozmap (Sep 28, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> And how did this doctor person come into being?


Billions of years worth of evolution. The same way that the medical profession came about. It started out with illnesses that weren't curable, but by chance, 1/100 things tried, actually worked. 1% of medical cases were improved and were treatable. Of those cases that were treatable, humanity survived to see different treatments evolve in the same way. LITTLE by LITTLE over time.

The medical profession didn't just wake up one day and say, "Let's get rid of witch-doctoring" (some still haven't to this day, showing the different 'branches' that evolution takes). They improved it slightly over time, to get what it is, today.

Much the same as the doctor evolving from a fish. No fish laid an egg one day and created a different species. It

happened over billions of years. Some of the eggs took the path of getting larger, some took the road to form legs, etc. Both came from the same ancestor, but when people hear that "We evolved from apes" they immediately think, "Why are there still apes, then?" It is simple. The fish turned into apes (and cats and dogs, etc) and the apes took a fork in the road like everything before it and some of them grew less hair (and bred with each other) some of them didn't.

Keep adding variables to the 'no-hair' or the 'hair' species and you'll find that it is very easy to look extremely different with just a couple of small changes, here or there.

You can do the same with a marijuana plant, if you wish. Everything can be modified, it just takes time. Lots of time, not the 6000 years that the bible claims that the world has existed for. Evolution from a single-celled organism to a human being CAN NOT happen in 6000 years.

If you can see that the world is older than that, then you mustn't believe everything in the bible, the word of God.

Do you believe that the world is a mere 6000 years old?





mysunnyboy said:


> Faith rules, it’s so easy to not believe.



It is once you 'see the light' and know for sure that there is no god. But *it is NOT easy to disbelieve in a god that you've been brought up with.* It is why the fear is written into the stories, to begin with. It keeps even a lot of disbelievers thinking, 'what if' etc. Most people, even among the non-believers if pressed for an answer, would admit to Hell being something worth 'hedging your bets' over. I've done it myself, I'm sure. But even the most logical person is not immuned to the occasional irrational thought, so I don't hold it against myself. I'm as imperfect as we all are. 




mysunnyboy said:


> Good thing we’re not all weak.


But some of us are, though. Especially nowadays, with all of the cotton-wool that we send our kids out to play wrapped in and the 'safe spaces' and politically correct terms that we use to not 'hurt' anyones feelings, with the truth.

We are getting weaker and weaker and more easily scared now, than ever before. We didn't always have access to worldwide news of things to keep the populations scared and needing rulers to 'protect' them with new laws for 'their protection'. What we see as a disaster happens every day to us if we watch the news or use the internet. It makes people scared and scared people need a cuddle. The disasters used to just be local and occasional. Now they are 'everywhere, all the time'.



mysunnyboy said:


> Good thing we’re not all weak.


That is a good example of how evolution by natural selection works. We're not all weak, because the weak ones are dead. Left to nature, we'd only get stronger but with humans interfering and protecting the weak, they are living to reproduce their genes and polluting the pool.




mysunnyboy said:


> @Ozmap seriuosly? You’ve read the Bible how many times? I’m serious.
> How did you tackle this feat? Straight through starting IN THE BEGINNING? What version do you prefer? Did you use any type of assistant or reference guide?


Yes. I've read it a few times, start to finish, over the years. I don't know why. It's not a good example of chronology, but I guess that you just need to be aware of that, starting out, as it is (as you'd know) a bunch of stories written by a bunch of people, over a bunch of generations. Some of these stories are written MANY years after the 'fact' and I found it interesting that _shepherds and fishermen_ could do that reliably back the,, when WE can't even get a well documented story straight, that happened only a few years ago.

The first time I tried to read the bible, I was told to start with the Roman Road and the gospels first, because it talked about Jesus. The roman Road was like reading a 'choose-your-own-adventure' book and I found that the gospels were just the same retold version of the story with increasing 'spectacularity' of miracles performed as time progressed. It seemed more like Chinese Whispers, than anything. The story kept 'evolving' a bit at a time. Much the same as the footnotes that I have in a bible here, does (*Second sentence on page one*), Genesis 1:2 says:

Genesis 1.1-2
(1)In the beginning, when God created the universe, (2) the earth was formless and desolate. The raging ocean that covered everything was engulfed in total darkness, and the power of God(b) was moving over the water......

The footnote (b) for this says, "(b) the power of God; _or_ the spirit of God; _or_ a wind from God; _or_ an awesome wind.

This is the type of thing that makes me read things to find out what other goodies are hidden. _I think I know_ what was moving across the water. I won't rule out God as a cause just yet but at the moment, they are admitting two possible causes. So we need to keep reading to see what else is attributed to the supernatural OR something natural.

If a book continues with "God did it OR something else did it", it seems pretty easy to dismiss, to me.




mysunnyboy said:


> What version do you prefer? Did you use any type of assistant or reference guide?


I prefer (in terms of easy-to read) the KJV but I've also read my nanas catholic version NJB or whatever, and a tried reading the JW book, (whatever they call theirs) but couldn't get past the spelling of YWHY or whatever it is. It annoyed me.

I have a GNB next to me at the moment. That is the one that I like to underline all my 'favourite' bits in. I had another christian pocket bible but it was only the new half of the book. Although I'd read that on my lunch breaks at work, I see no point in ignoring the Old Testament and calling it 'outdated' because the word of god shouldn't become outdated, should it? Who are we to outdate it?

_Assistance or reference guide?_ Yes, I used to have a very good one with maps and timelines and family trees, etc but I gave it to someone who had more use for it than I did. I've been to churches, study groups, lived with different religious people that wave books and I talk to the Jehovahs Witnesses when they come to the door. Occasionally I'll invite them in for a coffee and have a friendly debate with them, but I haven't seen them for a while now.

The assistance that I use these days is the electronic version (websites) where you can compare the different books verses and see the reality of what was originally written before it got 'cleaned up' or 'made nice'. One book may suggest raping a girl, but one might suggest 'shaming' her or whatever. I think that the books before the seventies were a better read to see that the bibles were written by primitive men, for primitive men and to claim that they are the _inspired_ 'word of God' is just an excuse to 'make it so'. ...because if you believe in God, then you believe in Hell, right? ...And not following his rule book and believing it, will send you there, will it not?

Just out of curiosity, do you believe in ALL of the gods? YHWY, Apollo, Jehovah, Thor, Ra, Horus, Neptune, etc?

What do you find so convincing, that you believe in the god/gods that you do?

Also, I can be more relevantly post back to you if I know what your religion (if any) is or at least what you believe or the book that makes you believe that.

Do you think it is better to believe in no gods at all, or the wrong god?


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## mysunnyboy (Sep 28, 2019)

What is my “religion”? Hmmm I reckon I don’t have one. I’m more spiritual as it were. I don’t like organized religion and it doesn’t like me. I’m good with that.

Do I believe in Neptune? Um no. I believe Mohammad, Confucius, Moses, etc. were prophets and philosophers we should not ignore. There’s much to be learned from them.

I KNOW there’s a heaven and I KNOW there’s a hell. Do I believe a disappointed father would send me there? No. I have asked for forgiveness. 

I have a personal relationship with “someone” I call my big dad. I love my earthly father like you would not believe. I mean I can’t wait to talk to him. I love to be with him and in his house. I love the family that gathers there and the great feeling I get. It re-charges me when I drive to his house and spend time there. Now imagine what your big dad should mean to you. 

I’m by noooooo means a bible thumper or holy roller. I’m over 50, I’ve seen some terrible things. I’ve done things I’m ashamed to tell you but I tell him. He knows my heart.

How do I know? Rita Marley said knows it, feels it...

I guess you just feel the love brother.


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## dandyrandy (Sep 29, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> And how did this doctor person come into being?
> Faith rules, it’s so easy to not believe.
> Good thing we’re not all weak.


Evolution. Dingbat


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## Brettman (Sep 29, 2019)




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## fishwhistle1 (Sep 29, 2019)

To many acts of evil have been committed in religions name for it to be taken seriously


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## mysunnyboy (Sep 29, 2019)

I’m sorry that your hearts are hard. Maybe someday before it’s too late.

I know you expect me to scream and holler and take your bait but I don’t feel the need.

Have a great day.


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## Ozmap (Sep 29, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> What is my “religion”? Hmmm I reckon I don’t have one. I’m more spiritual as it were.


What does being spiritual entail? You have a 'spirit'?
Which 'house' are you referring to that you be with God? Being spiritual is fine but it sounds like you have a church and/religion that you are not mentioning for some reason. This would be a lot easier to reply specifically to, if you tell me what you believe and why. If you don't want to be rid of your belief, that's fine (so to speak) otherwise you'll need to answer my questions, like I've done, yours.



mysunnyboy said:


> I don’t like organized religion and it doesn’t like me. I’m good with that.


...but is God/gods cool with that? Seems to be a pretty recurring theme amongst theists that God has his rules and they are to be obeyed. If God knows your heart like you say, can't he tell the difference between murder in self defence and not following his book? Pretty sure the murderer would get in before the deliberately delinquent.




mysunnyboy said:


> Do I believe in Neptune? Um no.


Why not? Are you saying that the god of the sky and the god of the dead had only one brother? That earthquakes are caused by tectonic plates colliding? There are stories of Neptune that go back 400 years before Jesus.



mysunnyboy said:


> I believe Mohammad, Confucius, Moses, etc. were prophets and philosophers we should not ignore. There’s much to be learned from them.





mysunnyboy said:


> I KNOW there’s a heaven and I KNOW there’s a hell.


If you know that there is, and I know that there isn't, can't we both be right? ..or should we both point to demonstrable evidence? I can do my best but 'proving' that something (anything) doesn't exist is a tall order, I'm sure that you'll agree, but I'm still unsure of how serious you are to swap views, so I will wait until I'm convinced that this 'debate' could go somewhere by having all (mine and yours) questions answered before I open that impossibly big can of worms. Show me what you think and I'll show you why I don't believe it to be true, if that is the case.



mysunnyboy said:


> Do I believe a disappointed father would send me there? No. I have asked for forgiveness.


Why do you believe that? What does asking for forgiveness do for a spiritual person? 




mysunnyboy said:


> I have a personal relationship with “someone” I call my big dad. I love my earthly father like you would not believe. I mean I can’t wait to talk to him. I love to be with him and in his house. I love the family that gathers there and the great feeling I get. It re-charges me when I drive to his house and spend time there. Now imagine what your big dad should mean to you.


What does the sign say, on his front lawn? This escription can be used by anyone on their way to any cult meeting. It is a real feeling, I don't deny it, but it is not exclusive to visiting God at his house. It is the sam



mysunnyboy said:


> I’ve done things I’m ashamed to tell you but I tell him. He knows my heart.


I can see how it would be helpful to get it off your chest and truly beneficial to your own well-being to 'know' that the path to salvation has been re-paved with forgiveness, but the reality of it is that it is just the Placebo Effect.



mysunnyboy said:


> How do I know? Rita Marley said knows it, feels it...


 But Ritas wisdom does not help me to know what you know, so at best, her wisdom is unreliable.



mysunnyboy said:


> I guess you just feel the love brother.


Any drug can do that. A puppy can do it. Have you been near drugs or a puppy when you feel the love?

To be productive, please answer these questions from before. I'm basically grasping at straws here, having nothing to work with, except, "I'm sort of spiritual".

At the moment, I'm trying to refute 'nothing'. (pun intended)



Ozmap said:


> Do you believe that the world is a mere 6000 years old?
> 
> ...because if you believe in God, then you believe in Hell, right? ...And not following his rule book and believing it, will send you there, will it not?
> 
> ...


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## Ozmap (Sep 29, 2019)

fishwhistle1 said:


> To many acts of evil have been committed in religions name for it to be taken seriously


It is exactly why it SHOULD be taken seriously, in my opinion. Not followed, of course, but definitely shown for what it is, in all of its colourful history (and near future). Going to a church and being told which selected 'feel-good' passages to read for twenty years will not do it. If you want to truly rid yourself of religion, you need only read the bible. (All of it. Although for many, it won't take that much at all).


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## mysunnyboy (Sep 29, 2019)

I’m a black lesbian. I’ve not been to church in probably 30 years. Is God cool with that? Sir if you’ve read the Bible you know it says where 2 or more are gathered, this is God’s house. I don’t have to pick and choose. If you guys want to that’s cool but you don’t have to go to a Baptist or Lutheran or Catholic church.

I’ve been in a nuthouse for extreme anger. Righteous (so my pee brain thought) anger. I’m happy to explain but I’ve got RA and my hands are killing me atm.

There’s no sign at my dad’s house lol I’m being literal.

We’ve all been given free will. Why? Idk I reckon God didn’t want his kids to be sock puppets. It’s YOUR choice to believe or not.

I’ve got tons of drugs and if you glance over at the just dogs thread you’ll see I’ve got a new puppy, yay!

I’ve got FTD, RA, OA, Lupus, Fibromyalgia, Osteoporosis, Tunnel vision, RLS, Sleep apnea, CPTSD, I’ll stop there. I was mad mad mad at God and called him every name I know. That motherfucker had no right to make me so sick. I’m not sure what happened, but I started praying. Then I thought about the fatherly scenario I just described. I say father, not because they say God’s male. I believe there’s no gender involved. I say father because I love my dad. My mom, well, I love but I don’t like.

I am perfectly happy believing what I do, friend. In no way do I wish to be rid of it. It’s in my heart man. My cholesterol is perfect btw lol.

I don’t follow your line of thought equating self defense with murder. Maybe we better get on the same page here. I honestly (though it still pains me in some ways) believe the worst human in the world can be forgiven. Will that person in some way pay for their dirty deeds? Absofuckinglutely! It’s called judgement day for a reason. Everything I’ve ever done will be shown to all, God already knows. And I’ll have to explain. But being sent to hell as a soul that’s not saved? No.

It’s your choice and only your choice to make. You’ve been given a great brain. Did you come from a fish, monkey or sea slug? I doubt it. Why are they still around if they’ve evolved? I believe in adaptation and evolution. But for one species to create another species? My intellect says no.

I’m sorry I don’t know what you mean by swapping views? I’m steadfast in my faith.

I’m really not trolling or fucking with you. Just telling you some stuff about myself. 

I’m having Bubba’s Gift as I have a stinking headache. Also coffee while playing with my puppy and 3 kitties. The mrs is trimming weed. I live here.

Hell yes there’s a God


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## Ozmap (Sep 29, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> ....Sir if you’ve read the Bible you know it says where 2 or more are gathered, this is God’s house.


Yes, Jesus said it in Matthew or Luke. (or likely both, being the same story)



mysunnyboy said:


> I don’t have to pick and choose. If you guys want to that’s cool but you don’t have to go to a Baptist or Lutheran or Catholic church.


No, you don't have to choose. ..or attend. No two denominations (of the SAME religion) can even agree what their manual actually says, so not attending would likely give you a more consistent understanding of what you believe without all the extra confusion, dictation and cost.



mysunnyboy said:


> There’s no sign at my dad’s house lol I’m being literal.


 Oh.  ...didn't read properly.



mysunnyboy said:


> We’ve all been given free will. Why? Idk I reckon God didn’t want his kids to be sock puppets.


If his kids believe that 'free will' is something that _can_ be given, then they _are_ sock puppets. What if I don't want free will? Will I be _forced_ to have it against said will?




mysunnyboy said:


> It’s YOUR choice to believe or not.


I have no choice of what I believe. I can only believe what I've been convinced of. As with you. The level of convincing evidence needed, well there is perhaps where we have a choice. ..as in, I might choose that one exposure to a dog-bite, means that I'll believe that all dogs will bite me. Others may need 50 bites to believe the same thing.



mysunnyboy said:


> I am perfectly happy believing what I do, friend. In no way do I wish to be rid of it. It’s in my heart man.


That is fine. I know better than to show someone something that they are not interested in seeing. I was thinking that you were taking me up on my offer to debate our different views. My mistake.



mysunnyboy said:


> I don’t follow your line of thought equating self defense with murder. Maybe we better get on the same page here.


I didn't eqate them. Perhaps the fluffy term that I meant, was 'justifiable homicide'. My point that a justifiable crime would put you better in Gods book, than flat out disobedience of a smaller 'sin'.



mysunnyboy said:


> I honestly (though it still pains me in some ways) believe the worst human in the world can be forgiven.


There is no shortage of people in the world that believe that they'd need to forgive the worst person in the world as part of their own strategy towards Heavens door. I wonder if they'd be so willing to, if it wasn't 'required' of them. We're not known for our forgiving nature, us humans. The biggest businesses in the world have laws protecting 'the boss' and I can see the same thing for why 'forgiveness' is such a big thing in religions. Their bosses (right up to the big boss (god) himself), have a lot that needs forgiving.




mysunnyboy said:


> .....But being sent to hell as a soul that’s not saved? No.


I can agree with you here, although I don't believe that your thoughts will continue when you're dead, so you wouldn't know whether you went to Heaven or Hell, anyway.



mysunnyboy said:


> It’s your choice and only your choice to make.


We can choose where to look, but I don't think we can choose what to see. (I mean visually see). We can forget and ignore, though and do so quite conveniently, on occasion.



mysunnyboy said:


> You’ve been given a great brain. Did you come from a fish, monkey or sea slug? I doubt it. Why are they still around if they’ve evolved?


I answered this when the doctor was mentioned at the start of this conversation. Short recap, yes. We came from a fish and I believe I gave a short, very basic explanation, as to how.



mysunnyboy said:


> I believe in adaptation and evolution. But for one species to create another species? My intellect says no.


Perhaps the key to your spiritual belief lies here. You clearly don't understand what you are believing in, if you say this. Your second sentence makes your first sentence untrue. Evolution makes small changes, for billions of years to create something different.

Take one of your seeds, and a video camera running on it for the entire grow. Now go back to the start of the 'months long' video and watch, frame by frame, your seed picture 1-10,000 will all look the same. You will not be able to look at any 10,000 images in a row and see a difference. From the seed (or fish) to a plant with a whole bunch of complex organs (human) without having a single visible change for 5000 'generations' (images) before _or_ after it.

The plant did not change species, obviously (in this example) it was just a visual timeline.



mysunnyboy said:


> I’m sorry I don’t know what you mean by swapping views? I’m steadfast in my faith.


I meant, exchange ideas as to why we believe what we do. (and what we believe).



mysunnyboy said:


> I live here.
> Hell yes there’s a God


That looks like a nice place, but I see no reason to use it as proof that there is a god, any more than if I was to show a photo of lightning exploding an orphanage as 'proof' that there is no god.


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## BigHornBuds (Sep 29, 2019)




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## mysunnyboy (Sep 29, 2019)

Ok

I’ve a response to all your above questions but brother my hands are killing me and I seriously have tunnel vision etc., from RA.

I honestly don’t mind sharing with you but I don’t think I’m who you need to convince.

I’m not a man nor woman of the cloth my friend. I’m just a stoner here with you on this forum. 

Short answers are… We agree, we agree, we agree, yes choosing to have no free will is still your choice, we agree I’ve been bitten 50 times. I’m stubborn. That’s cool. I’m a lover not a fighter. I’m not here to have a serious discussion or disagreement with any one. Right on. I don’t think sin has a level. Like I said I think there’s a judgment day. We will all be revealed to each other. I think so and amen to that by the way amen means I agree. I think it happens when we least expect it and we need to chill the fuck out. Psalms 46:10. We will just have to agree to disagree. Dude that’s not evolution. Thank you so much. You know what? My grandmother was killed by a drunk driver when I was a toddler. I still remember her funeral. I later learned that my grandfather used to kick her ass. I have to wonder if God simply chose to take her home rather than allow her to continue to endure. I think so.


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## The Gram Reaper (Sep 29, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> Ok
> 
> I’ve a response to all your above questions but brother my hands are killing me and I seriously have tunnel vision etc., from RA.
> 
> ...


I don't blame you for not wanting to respond to posts as long as the bible. 

I think its a cruel world and everyone needs something to believe in to get through the hard times. People with faith seem to have an edge and a drive.


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## Ozmap (Sep 30, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> I honestly don’t mind sharing with you but I don’t think I’m who you need to convince.


I'm not responding to you to convince _you_ of anything. It was clear that you would protect your belief from scrutiny by witholding information about it, such as what rulebook you are using, to play the game. I dismissed the exclusion under the pretence of being 'spiritual' rather than religious which is fine, but then you quote Psalms from it. I put it to you that I think that you do read a bible but are unwilling to say which one, for some reason.



mysunnyboy said:


> I’m not a man nor woman of the cloth my friend. I’m just a stoner here with you on this forum.





mysunnyboy said:


> Short answers are… We agree, we agree, we agree, yes choosing to have no free will is still your choice


I don't think that we _do_ agree, here. Perhaps I didn't explain what I meant, very well.

_GOD GAVE US 'FREE WILL_'. I will let that false statement be a 'fact' here as you believe that it is, to rationally explain where I think that the idea becomes incompatible with itself. If God gave us all free will, and we used it to choose _not_ to have 'free will', then would we still have it? It seems to me that we have no say at all, either way.

Balance the equation, and God doesn't need to be here, and by extension of that, neither does a 'free will' that can be 'given', to change anything.

The outcome is the all-to familiar 'God intervened or _Something else_ (nothing) did'. Same theme from the Genesis 1.1-2 example that I mentioned before. 'God sent wind' vs '_It was windy_'. The presupposition of a gods existence in both of these examples are redundant. If he did make the world, he made it maintenance free, because he doesn't need to be around, for it to work. The world works fine, on its own. (Probably just part of an ingenious (amateur) plan devised before _creating_ the world).

It is just a redundant complication for the sake of non-compliance ransoms that will need to be paid otherwise you'll 'go to Hell'. Just one more illusion to scare people into the belief.

If we _didn't_ have free will, who then, would be accountable for our actions? Surely as sock-puppets (as you mentioned those without it _would be_), it would be the puppeteer that is accountable for the actions of the 'no free will' cast, in the play.

Since you won't admit to reading a bible, (or at least name it) but still go on to quote from it twice and mention that you think Moses was a prophet worth listening to, I think that it is fair that I can at the very least, bring up a Moses question about free will and how 'free' it really is.

In Exodus, when Moses and Aaron wanted the Pharoah to let the Israelites go, God bullied the pharoah for a week, into submission and then when he said, "Ok, I'll let the Israelites go", God then 'hardened Pharoahs heart'. So Pharoah was to blame (because he had 'free will') for keeping the Israelites, but then all of a sudden, God controls him to change his '_free willed_' mind for what? So that he can torture Egypt for a bit longer and brag about how many tricks he can do?

We can not be given free will. With, or without magic.






mysunnyboy said:


> ...we agree I’ve been bitten 50 times. I’m stubborn. That’s cool. I’m a lover not a fighter.


Again, I mustn't have explained what I meant, properly as in my analogy, I was implying that stubbornness would be on the 'only exposed once and now I'm convinced, no matter what' side of the scale and not on the '50 exposures can be a fair, non-stereotyping method of reaching a conclusion' side.



mysunnyboy said:


> I’m not here to have a serious discussion or disagreement with any one.


Then this will be my last post to you, as I was after a conversation with someone who is, so that we can answer the OPs question, "Jesus, Are You Real?"



mysunnyboy said:


> Right on. I don’t think sin has a level.


Neither does God. If you tell a lie, then it may as well have been to cover up a murder, because a 'sin' is a 'sin', is a 'sin'.



mysunnyboy said:


> Like I said I think there’s a judgment day. We will all be revealed to each other.


It sounds like a threat, to me. Be good, or else.
Why not do what the unbelievers do and just _be good for the sake of_ being good?



mysunnyboy said:


> I think so and amen to that by the way amen means I agree.


 Yes, or "..so be it".



mysunnyboy said:


> I think it happens when we least expect it and we need to chill the fuck out.





mysunnyboy said:


> Psalms 46:10. We will just have to agree to disagree.


You quote God as saying, "Chill out, I'm awesome, everyone will love me".



mysunnyboy said:


> Dude that’s not evolution.


If you are referring to the images of the same plant that hasn't changed its species, You are right. It wasn't meant to be evolution. It was meant to be a demonstration of many minute changes over a long period of time, to end up with something completely unrecognizable to what was started with. It was a representation, a mental image that I was trying to send.



mysunnyboy said:


> Thank you so much.


You are welcome.



mysunnyboy said:


> My grandmother was killed by a drunk driver when I was a toddler. I still remember her funeral. I later learned that my grandfather used to kick her ass. I have to wonder if God simply chose to take her home rather than allow her to continue to endure. I think so.


I've had a similar thought. If I hadn't stalled my car at the green traffic lights one time, I would have been part of a horrible accident where the first guy off the line in the lane next to me, got T-boned. Sure, the thought of divine intervention crossed my mind, but then I thought, surely it would be easier to _guide_ the drivers foot to not run a red light and kill the guy next to me, rather than to 'save' me and not the other two. Maybe they were just sinners. Maybe they'd had enough of a hard life. Maybe the other driver just had too much to drink.

..just another case of infinite reasons why something can plausibly happen, but thowing God into the mix for some reason just gets us back to the 'God did it. ....OR something else did' way of describing events.

It has been amusing talking to you but like I said in my first post, I can help those that feel trapped in a religion to get out if they WANT to. I feel that people who want help are less likely to avoid the things that will help them.

Much like going to the doctor. It can be a quick fix if the doctor doesn't need to play guessing games.

I appreciate you having this discussion with me and I hope your RA (and other issues) settles down.

If anyone wants help, please state what version of the bible you read, your religion, and the issue holding you into your religion. It will make things much easier for both of us and anyone reading.[/QUOTE]


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## RangiSTaxi (Sep 30, 2019)

PokerJay83 said:


> Do you believe Jesus existed and was real? Why do you believe or not believe? This great little tune by mason Jennings - Jesus are you real, Seems pretty objective. Great smoking song.


Yes im real but i wont reply to your prayers until you send me a pound or 2.


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## mysunnyboy (Sep 30, 2019)

Ozmap said:


> I'm not responding to you to convince _you_ of anything. It was clear that you would protect your belief from scrutiny by witholding information about it, such as what rulebook you are using, to play the game. I dismissed the exclusion under the pretence of being 'spiritual' rather than religious which is fine, but then you quote Psalms from it. I put it to you that I think that you do read a bible but are unwilling to say which one, for some reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Have a great week


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## Lord Bonkey (Sep 30, 2019)

Observe & Report said:


> How do you know Jesus wasn't actually Satan tricking people into worshiping him so he could torture their souls?
> 
> It is totally consistent with all of the evidence. From the first commandment being "no gods before me" and god never saying he's going to send Jesus in the first bible, to all the magic tricks that Jesus did to convince you to worship him.
> 
> Can you really be sure you are worshiping the real god and not the devil?


yup, how ever you probably cant because of that whole Barabbas thing and the curse...

I hope you find God


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## Rob Roy (Oct 2, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> Ok
> 
> I’ve a response to all your above questions but brother my hands are killing me and I seriously have tunnel vision etc., from RA.
> 
> ...


If the example you provided about your beloved Grandmother made more sense, wouldn't god have had wife beater grampy get hit by a bus ? Also why would god punish the driver of the bus, by having him/her have to live with running over an old lady? Your god seems irrational.


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## mysunnyboy (Oct 2, 2019)

Rob Roy said:


> If the example you provided about your beloved Grandmother made more sense, wouldn't god have had wife beater grampy get hit by a bus ? Also why would god punish the driver of the bus, by having him/her have to live with running over an old lady? Your god seems irrational.


Wife beater grampy had to live with what he did for 45 more years. Wife beater grampy was ostracized by his family and lived a sad, lonely life.

DRUNK DRIVING MOTHERFUCKER who killed my grandmother when he ran a stop sign, died in jail.

I’d say she got the best hand out of the 3.


Edit: I was 3 years old, I don’t remember her so, unfortunately she’s not beloved as you stated. I’m not sitting here crying.


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## Rob Roy (Oct 2, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> Wife beater grampy had to live with what he did for 45 more years. Wife beater grampy was ostracized by his family and lived a sad, lonely life.
> 
> DRUNK DRIVING MOTHERFUCKER who killed my grandmother when he ran a stop sign, died in jail.
> 
> I’d say she got the best hand out of the 3.


If she wanted to die the outcome may have been beneficial to her, if she wanted to live, and god caused her death, god was complicit in murder or at least denied grandma "free will" . Anyway, it sounds like a tragedy. I wondr if anybody mourned the drunk?


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## mysunnyboy (Oct 2, 2019)

Rob Roy said:


> If she wanted to die the outcome may have been beneficial to her, if she wanted to live, and god caused her death, god was complicit in murder or at least denied grandma "free will" . Anyway, it sounds like a tragedy. I wondr if anybody mourned the drunk?


Hopefully someone did, he was only 25 years old. Same age as my mother who lost her mother.


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## Rob Roy (Oct 2, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> Hopefully someone did, he was only 25 years old. Same age as my mother who lost her mother.


The reason some of my ancestors came to North America was a great great great etc grandmother was drowned in England to "see if she was a witch". After that her surviving son fled to North America. What a horrible twisted thing some people in a village did to a woman because they believed in some kind of twisted religious superstition. 

When people spread false rumors about others it can have horrible consequences wouldn't you say?


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## mysunnyboy (Oct 2, 2019)

Cool story bro


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## Rob Roy (Oct 2, 2019)

mysunnyboy said:


> Cool story bro



It could be a story, but I believe it's true, based on the source.

I think it has historical accuracy, my mom is a longtime genealogy buff and has researched things pretty far back, cross referencing with other records on multiple continents etc. Anyhow, I hope we can agree that spreading false rumors is the "work of the devil" ?


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## tyler.durden (Oct 5, 2019)




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## hanimmal (Oct 10, 2019)

PokerJay83 said:


> Do you believe Jesus existed and was real?  Why do you believe or not believe? This great little tune by mason Jennings - Jesus are you real, Seems pretty objective. Great smoking song.


As a person? I think it seems likely. 

As the offspring of some sky god that sent a angel down to knock up a underaged girl so that one day people will slaughter him and everyone can pretend to eat his flesh and drink his blood? I don't see this as likely


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## Trout2012 (Oct 10, 2019)

Yep he is real!! The bible is the historical evidence! All other written historical documents are taken at face value. They have found many artifacts validating many of the stories. We have freewill to choose to love God! We have always been sinful, but didnt realise our state until the fruit was eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. With out the knowledge,we couldnt be held accountable. That's why we needed a savior. We have lived under his will and ours!!! We have failed on both accounts. The law demanded the wages of sin being death, but yet Jesus took the penalty for us!! It was the only way God could do it really. Imagine being an angel, seeing a man fail and not face the punishment!! God so loved the world "man" he sent his son to bear our burden!! Sure the old testament seems gruesome, but a just law was given! We could not follow it, and a loving God chose to save us anyway!! Jesus is not the real name just as Jerusalem is not the real name. There is no J in Hebrew. You want proof? Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you!!!


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## Observe & Report (Oct 10, 2019)

Trout2012 said:


> Yep he is real!! The bible is the historical evidence! [...] We have always been sinful, but didnt realise our state until the fruit was eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


Sorry, snakes can't talk and reindeer can't fly.


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## Trout2012 (Oct 11, 2019)

Observe & Report said:


> Sorry, snakes can't talk and reindeer can't fly.


Your right, Satan or Lucifer was an angel, God used the snake to represent the nature of him. Sneaky, stealthy, comes up behind his unaware pray" BAM" !! Hes got ya!!


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## Observe & Report (Oct 11, 2019)

Trout2012 said:


> Your right, Satan or Lucifer was an angel, God used the snake to represent the nature of him. Sneaky, stealthy, comes up behind his unaware pray" BAM" !! Hes got ya!!


What is an angel?


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## Rob Roy (Oct 12, 2019)

So basically god cucked Joseph, then didn't send any child support payments either. 

Gee, thanks god.


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## Dalek Supreme (Oct 12, 2019)

Trout2012 said:


> *Yep he is real!! The bible is the historical evidence! All other written historical documents are taken at face value. They have found many artifacts validating many of the stories*.
> 
> *You want proof? Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you*!!!


The *Holy Dopamine Ghost* is strong in this one.


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## Trout2012 (Oct 12, 2019)

Dalek Supreme said:


> The *Holy Dopamine Ghost* is strong in this one.


I read your dopamine post before, I decided not to comment. What human experience does not release some amount of dopamine or adrenaline? It is how we were created!! I could very easily assume by your logic that all human experience is just a fallacy!! Just because someone enjoys something doesn't make it not real. Just because we are programmed to experience a higher amount of joy when we find it doesn't make it a delusion! If it does, are you saying you live a miserable existence? I personally dont get high on God!! Sure I get a bit excited when I understand more. I dont attend church and some I have, totally freaked me out. Maybe that's where your coming from? Maybe ask yourself instead, why would a human need dopamine at all? We can experience joy without it. At least adrenaline serves a purpose in fight or flight! Why would evolution have equipped man with the ability to experience greater joy? I'm sure sex and drugs would have still felt ok!


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## PokerJay83 (Oct 12, 2019)

Trout2012 said:


> I read your dopamine post before, I decided not to comment. What human experience does not release some amount of dopamine or adrenaline? It is how we were created!! I could very easily assume by your logic that all human experience is just a fallacy!! Just because someone enjoys something doesn't make it not real. Just because we are programmed to experience a higher amount of joy when we find it doesn't make it a delusion! If it does, are you saying you live a miserable existence? I personally dont get high on God!! Sure I get a bit excited when I understand more. I dont attend church and some I have, totally freaked me out. Maybe that's where your coming from? Maybe ask yourself instead, why would a human need dopamine at all? We can experience joy without it. At least adrenaline serves a purpose in fight or flight! Why would evolution have equipped man with the ability to experience greater joy? I'm sure sex and drugs would have still felt ok!


I like your spirit.


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## Dalek Supreme (Oct 12, 2019)

Trout2012 said:


> I read your dopamine post before, I decided not to comment. What human experience does not release some amount of dopamine or adrenaline? It is how we were created!! I could very easily assume by your logic that all human experience is just a fallacy!! Just because someone enjoys something doesn't make it not real. Just because we are programmed to experience a higher amount of joy when we find it doesn't make it a delusion! If it does, are you saying you live a miserable existence? I personally dont get high on God!! Sure I get a bit excited when I understand more. I dont attend church and some I have, totally freaked me out. Maybe that's where your coming from? Maybe ask yourself instead, why would a human need dopamine at all? We can experience joy without it. At least adrenaline serves a purpose in fight or flight! Why would evolution have equipped man with the ability to experience greater joy? I'm sure sex and drugs would have still felt ok!


Do you love God?


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## Trout2012 (Oct 13, 2019)

Dalek Supreme said:


> Do you love God?


That's a broad question!! Do you love your wife? Do you love your parents? Do you love your children? Your wife gives you great pleasure and a feeling you can't get from the others. Is this love? Now put your wife, parents, children in a burning building you can only save one of the three. Which one did you choose, who did you love? Is love a feeling? The love of God surpasses all human understanding!! Yes I love God!!


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## Dalek Supreme (Oct 13, 2019)

Trout2012 said:


> That's a broad question!! Do you love your wife? Do you love your parents? Do you love your children? Your wife gives you great pleasure and a feeling you can't get from the others. Is this love? Now put your wife, parents, children in a burning building you can only save one of the three. Which one did you choose, who did you love? Is love a feeling? The love of God surpasses all human understanding!! Yes I love God!!


First off it's a piss poor analogy. The Abrahamic God pretty much started the fire. Leave a forbidden magical fruit tree laying around with a trickster snake as well. It's like leaving a toddler in a crib with matches, lighters, and a jug of gas. Bad parenting skills, but it's a myth anyway. Do you believe the sky is blue because a glass dome is holding up an ocean (see Genesis)?

You love God. Why that's the Holy Dopamine Ghost at work. It will not let you see nonsense for what it is.


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## Trout2012 (Oct 13, 2019)

Dalek Supreme said:


> First off it's a piss poor analogy. The Abrahamic God pretty much started the fire. Leave a forbidden magical fruit tree laying around with a trickster snake as well. It's like leaving a toddler in a crib with matches, lighters, and a jug of gas. Bad parenting skills, but it's a myth anyway. Do you believe the sky is blue because a glass dome is holding up an ocean (see Genesis)?
> 
> You love God. Why that's the Holy Dopamine Ghost at work. It will not let you see nonsense for what it is.


The whole reason I made up the story, was to show you dopamine is only heavily released with your wife. Who would have you saved? You dont get that feeling with your parents do you? Fires starts all the time by random acts of nature,arsonists,ect Just as free will has a ripple effect through the world! God could not give free will to one being, and not the rest. The tree represents knowledge of sin. The serpent "angel" practiced free will. Man fell from grace, by choosing free will, and realizing his sinful nature. Man became accountable. You believe God causes all these problems!! When man choose he was left to his own will! Within a world where everyone practices free will! The ripple is felt by multiple people, it changes the course of humanity. No longer did we trust God, so he stepped aside. We were left with the knowledge and ability, but only choose many wrong choices! I've read Genesis I dont remember it saying it's made of glass. However it is the first non flat earther known in history. Also says it was hung on nothing. Was it a lucky guess,maybe? You would like to blame God for our choices, he only let us run with our choices. But also gave us a way back. You view death as the end so your pissed that all the bad goes on when it could be stopped! God views it as the beginning, and now you have your will to compare it to. Perhaps mankind will understand that Gods will was always better for us than our own one day! I've spent years dissecting this book, many times being pissed about the state of the world. Only to find perspective answers more questions than not! A book I read when I was a kid had a great quote in it about perspective. " What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls the butterfly." We will probably have to agree to disagree, this could go on indefinitely!! One of my biggest questions now!!! Why do we have cannabinoid receptors? I know I've changed the subject, I do love a good debate though!! I question everything, even God, not to seems illogical to me!! The deeper you dig,the deeper it gets.


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## Dalek Supreme (Oct 15, 2019)

Trout2012 said:


> The whole reason I made up the story, was to show you dopamine is only heavily released with your wife. Who would have you saved? You dont get that feeling with your parents do you? Fires starts all the time by random acts of nature,arsonists,ect Just as free will has a ripple effect through the world! God could not give free will to one being, and not the rest. The tree represents knowledge of sin. The serpent "angel" practiced free will. Man fell from grace, by choosing free will, and realizing his sinful nature. Man became accountable. You believe God causes all these problems!! When man choose he was left to his own will! Within a world where everyone practices free will! The ripple is felt by multiple people, it changes the course of humanity. No longer did we trust God, so he stepped aside. We were left with the knowledge and ability, but only choose many wrong choices! I've read Genesis I dont remember it saying it's made of glass. However it is the first non flat earther known in history. Also says it was hung on nothing. Was it a lucky guess,maybe? You would like to blame God for our choices, he only let us run with our choices. But also gave us a way back. You view death as the end so your pissed that all the bad goes on when it could be stopped! God views it as the beginning, and now you have your will to compare it to. Perhaps mankind will understand that Gods will was always better for us than our own one day! I've spent years dissecting this book, many times being pissed about the state of the world. Only to find perspective answers more questions than not! A book I read when I was a kid had a great quote in it about perspective. " What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls the butterfly." We will probably have to agree to disagree, this could go on indefinitely!! One of my biggest questions now!!! Why do we have cannabinoid receptors? I know I've changed the subject, I do love a good debate though!! I question everything, even God, not to seems illogical to me!! The deeper you dig,the deeper it gets.


First off I thought you were using an old apologetic (probably a form of it).

Free will is more of an illusion (people have less free will than others), but I doubt you can handle the science behind it.

You are using your imagination to reinterpret retellings of ancient myths. You think there's deeper meaning to why the ground is a chore to cultivate, why women have labour pains, and why snakes have no legs.

I do not believe in any Gods so it would be absurd to blame problems on one, or more.

The Bible represents the Earth as flat, set on pillars, domed by glass that holds up Heaven's ocean, the stars as ornaments set on said dome, and the other celestial objects revolve around the Earth. You spent years studying the Bible, and don't know this? I don't feel like posting verses now, but try searching "Bible Firmament", and 'Joshua stops the Sun" for starters. Also try Young's literal translation when sourcing apologetic verses trying to make the Earth sound as if round (btw the ancient Greeks knew the Earth was round in the 4th century BCE). Also search "Documentary Hypothesis", and watch "Bible Unearthed" on Youtube.

We have Cannabinoid receptors just like many mammals, and reptiles for physiological signaling between organs for regulation (liver, gut for examples). It's a coincidence a plant we smoke interferes with this internal communication system. It's like saying since we have calcium, and plants as well it must be some form of magic that only intelligent design can explain. Fallacious reasoning is what it is.


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## Trout2012 (Oct 16, 2019)

Job 26:7
Isaiah 40:22
Proverbs 8:27


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## Ozmap (Dec 11, 2019)

Like all religious discussions, this one ended with a list of 'backup' verses that nobody reading, can be bothered looking up (or 'interpreting'), and leaving the person with the last word thinking that their superstitions are validated by two months of 'no rebuttal' and even WORSE, the potential for a lazy thinking new recruit to jump onto this silly, expensive, childish belief.

Here's what the quoted verses say, so as not to give any of the lazy thinkers out there (MOST internet users, _let alone_ those packing cones) any reason to keep this rubbish going on for another generation.



Trout2012 said:


> Job 26:7
> Isaiah 40:22
> Proverbs 8:27



Job 26:7
King James Bible
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, _and_ hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Isaiah 40:22
King James Bible
_It is_ he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof _are_ as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Proverbs 8:27
King James Bible
When he prepared the heavens, I _was_ there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Well that's all slightly arousing, but AS USUAL, it nothing to do with anything. It gets posted as a 'mic-drop' and nobody questions it. (..or better yet, even gives a shit.) But let's move forward as a species, leftover people. We have Science now. If we burned our superstitions as plentiful as we did 'witches', cattle, daughters, towns and books, we'd be much better off.

Do you remember the most advanced technology you'd ever seen 30 years ago? We've come a long way in a short time. If only the majority of us hadn't wasted 2000 years on paying a company to make us believe nonsense, we could be considering todays technology as extremely primative. As an aside, I'm all for 'lights out', but I value knowledge over the death of robots. (..for now).

I mentioned two months ago (the last post here) that I would have a respectful conversation about why your deity belief is unfounded or something to that effect. That time (and intention) has passed.

I have vowed to myself that no more, will I suffer an idiot to live.

Education at all costs, no matter the silly, superstitious delusion.


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## Lord Bonkey (Dec 11, 2019)

Ozmap said:


> Like all religious discussions, this one ended with a list of 'backup' verses that nobody reading, can be bothered looking up (or 'interpreting'), and leaving the person with the last word thinking that their superstitions are validated by two months of 'no rebuttal' and even WORSE, the potential for a lazy thinking new recruit to jump onto this silly, expensive, childish belief.
> 
> Here's what the quoted verses say, so as not to give any of the lazy thinkers out there (MOST internet users, _let alone_ those packing cones) any reason to keep this rubbish going on for another generation.
> 
> ...


ya... that dang church and its morality... 

Ill just leave this here for the elect to read.









The war of Antichrist with the Church and Christian civilization, lectures : George F. Dillon : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


Book digitized by Google from the library of Oxford University and uploaded to the Internet Archive by user tpb.



archive.org





your revolution is sure slowing down butter cup.... lucky for you we wont drown you like you guys did to the sweet little nuns of france and germany


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## insomnia65 (Nov 23, 2020)

This link had me in tears of laughter, tha KS guys.


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