# LED Grow Lights.



## berkough (Sep 14, 2007)

I've been thinking about starting my own grow room for a long while now. And I think I'm about ready to start collecting the equipment needed to make a setup.

I'm in the states, and one of the things that bothers me is the energy usage of most grow lights, so I've been doing extensive research, and stumbled upon LED lights being used to grow plants. Although I can't find any information on these lights being used in cannabis cultivation. But it should stand to reason, if NASA can grow potatoes using these lights, than they should be able to be used in growing marijuana. One company that produces fixtures and LED grow lights even boasts, "*Promotes the growth and development of all photosynthesizing organisms (plants, algae, bacteria) commonly found in hobby, commercial, and scientific areas of interest. This is the highest performance, most spectrally rich plant light source in the world.*"

They seem to cost around the same as any HIDs, yet only use about 9w and produce virtually no heat.

Just curious if anyone has experimented with an LED grow light setups, or might know someone who has, not even necessarily with growing marijuana either. Just in general. 

I originally became interested after reading Wikipedia's article on indoor Cannabis cultivation, they have brief mention of different light sources and LEDs are mentioned. 

Here are the links I've found most useful so far in trying to determine if this would be a viable alternative.

Indoor Cannabis cultivation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Welcome to Enlux Lighting.
Kevin Folta Laboratory at the Univeristy of Florida
LED Growlights.com Sales
LED Grow Master lighting for plants and planet
Lettuce and LEDs: Shedding New Light On Space Farming

AH YES! Wanted to say that I've been a lurker for a really long time, this is my first post, so hello to all of you, and all the beautiful crops I've seen!


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## donnieosmond (Sep 14, 2007)

Search for that tmc kid's post on his attempted LED grow... didn't work out well at all for him. Maybe NASA is growing potatoes with them, but NASA also has millions of dollars in funding. At this point the evidence is too sparse and the price is too high to consider buying LEDs. You're much better off getting a 400W HID from htgsupply for $150.


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## berkough (Sep 15, 2007)

Alright, well I guess I'm too paranoid then... 400W (possibly x2) going for 18hrs a day and 3 months isn't going to draw attention to myself? I'm trying to go the most energy efficient way.


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## clekstro (Sep 15, 2007)

a lot of people on this forum will bust your chops for trying out another form of lighting because they think you should be using exactly what they're using. Why? Because they have the best setup, of course. Arguments nonetheless on behalf of led experimentation abound, and they have budded plants out on other forums, namely Cogi's LED experiment - Reefer World

These lights are more efficient, the problems are only with wavelength. Everyone brags about HID inefficiency when babbling on about lumens. Lumens are important, but to what end? Driving photosynthesis and other plant processes. So much light is wasted and reflected from the plants with HID's that you're really only operating 100W of light anyways (as it only has 25% efficiency) and the plants use only a small portion of the actual light output. So people like to forget that they're paying for four times more electricity than they need to grow the same crop because they're crop turns out so well and there's a big number on the box that says it puts off lots of lumens. It would be like rating an engine to 500 horsepower and driving a honda civic. Better to start off on our end, with 90% efficiency, then at 25%. It works, but it'll never change unless some people say that with new technology that number is no longer acceptable. It will, after all, be someone experimenting with pot growing that will develop a light harnessing these technologies that becomes rich. All the critics will be wishing they had researched and defended their case with evidence instead of spewing off reasons why you're an asshole for trying something different. Led's are a good start. Just accept the fact that you're experimenting. But that should make it all the more satisfying if you can make it work.
good luck in whatever you choose, and research led grows on other forums. You won't find as much info here as the environment is not ready for it...


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## clekstro (Sep 15, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> Search for that tmc kid's post on his attempted LED grow... didn't work out well at all for him. Maybe NASA is growing potatoes with them, but NASA also has millions of dollars in funding. At this point the evidence is too sparse and the price is too high to consider buying LEDs. You're much better off getting a 400W HID from htgsupply for $150.


he also bought a commercial system which hasn't matched the output of the homegrown systems that I have seen succeed in budding. Of course you should shy away from shit like that. People are trying to prematurely turn led grow lights into a business. that will take a long time. But convincing someone not to experiment is less desirable than warning them they might not succeed. Besides, everyone here has spent so much on pot already in their life that a little cash is not such a big deal if it's in line with your hobbies. Have you all forgotten how fun it is to invent something?

Does millions of dollars magically make a light work differently? I've never heard a physics explanation that lacking. These people _who have actually experimented with it_ are using the same technology, the same wavelengths. You're benefitting from that million dollar research because you read it for free. What an odd objection...


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## clekstro (Sep 15, 2007)

I bought everything for my cold cathode system, running 160W and with a light output of 1,200,000 cd/m2 for $150. Seeing as the plants could use all of this light, what are the objections again _based on evidence_

The only one I can imagine is that it hasn't worked yet on par with HID; as was mentioned, "the evidence is sparse". But this has much to do with the intensity that was unable to match HID's. Perhaps that can already be overcome.


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## clekstro (Sep 15, 2007)

the proof being in the pudding of course...


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## cloudflyer (Sep 15, 2007)

clekstro said:


> People are trying to prematurely turn led grow lights into a business. that will take a long time.


LED lighting is the absolute future in the USA. Brighter, cooler, cheeper, longer lasting, and smaller. How this will fit into the growing world, I don't know. BUT it is not premature. IF they work, then the business that sold it early will have market share. Market Share means brand recognition. The leaders make the big money and the followers see you making it and want a piece too. Plus business pushs for technolgical advancement.


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## cloudflyer (Sep 15, 2007)

berkough said:


> , if NASA can grow potatoes using these lights, than they should be able to be used in growing marijuana.


 I love how NASA endorces so many products. Remember Tang lol? No one ever talks about the stupid shit they do like this.

In the mid 1980's NASA spent millions of dollars developing a pen that could write in space. After suceeding, in order to recoupe their costs they actully sold them to the US public (you may remember this). They also contacted the USSR and asked if they would like to buy space pens that cost millions to make. They replyed, no thanks, we use pencils.


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## berkough (Sep 16, 2007)

clekstro said:


> a lot of people on this forum will bust your chops for trying out another form of lighting because they think you should be using exactly what they're using. Why? Because they have the best setup, of course. Arguments nonetheless on behalf of led experimentation abound, and they have budded plants out on other forums, namely Cogi's LED experiment - Reefer World
> 
> These lights are more efficient, the problems are only with wavelength. Everyone brags about HID inefficiency when babbling on about lumens. Lumens are important, but to what end? Driving photosynthesis and other plant processes. So much light is wasted and reflected from the plants with HID's that you're really only operating 100W of light anyways (as it only has 25% efficiency) and the plants use only a small portion of the actual light output. So people like to forget that they're paying for four times more electricity than they need to grow the same crop because they're crop turns out so well and there's a big number on the box that says it puts off lots of lumens. It would be like rating an engine to 500 horsepower and driving a honda civic. Better to start off on our end, with 90% efficiency, then at 25%. It works, but it'll never change unless some people say that with new technology that number is no longer acceptable. It will, after all, be someone experimenting with pot growing that will develop a light harnessing these technologies that becomes rich. All the critics will be wishing they had researched and defended their case with evidence instead of spewing off reasons why you're an asshole for trying something different. Led's are a good start. Just accept the fact that you're experimenting. But that should make it all the more satisfying if you can make it work.
> good luck in whatever you choose, and research led grows on other forums. You won't find as much info here as the environment is not ready for it...


To be honest with you, I didn't realize how complicated, yet precise this could actually be. I was thinking more in relevant terms I guess, not actually working to build a cannabis growing LED technology. Which is essentially what Cogitus seems to be doing with his experimenting. It's been a great read so far, so I thank you for that! I'm only about 8 pages into the thread and already I've got quite a bit more of a handle on what I would have to do in order to have a successful grow. I'm thinking what I might do is end up emailing that Ph.D from Florida (link provided in my first post) to see how far down this rabbit hole he's gone. I don't know if I'll be explicitly telling him that I want to grow weed, but I mean.. he is a college professor in horticultural studies, so he might understand my position trying to do this with one of the most interesting plants on earth (I doubt too many of you on this forum can argue me on that point!)

I appreciate the encouraging words and for that great link though.


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## berkough (Sep 16, 2007)

cloudflyer said:


> I love how NASA endorces so many products. Remember Tang lol? No one ever talks about the stupid shit they do like this.
> 
> In the mid 1980's NASA spent millions of dollars developing a pen that could write in space. After suceeding, in order to recoupe their costs they actully sold them to the US public (you may remember this). They also contacted the USSR and asked if they would like to buy space pens that cost millions to make. They replyed, no thanks, we use pencils.



Dood! I love Tang. And I actually have owned one of those space pens in the past. I didn't do too much upside down writing, but I still thought they fucking cool.


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## Chugglez (Sep 18, 2007)

I was curious and looked it up. LED high lumen bulbs are nonexistent and or experimental and dangerous.


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## berkough (Sep 19, 2007)

Chugglez said:


> I was curious and looked it up. LED high lumen bulbs are nonexistent and or experimental and dangerous.


Given what I've read, Lumens aren't really a factor with LEDs. It's more about what area of the spectrum they give off, and the Candela ratings.

I emailed LED-Grow-Masters, this was the response I got back;

"We use EVERY wavelength proven by science, to grow strong healthy tasteful plants. Just red and blue are not sufficient to supply all needed light to plants.

 The ratios you have been reading about, have been made up on forum threads, and are pure conjecture, as they are missing several points in the spectrum responsible for proper plant actions. The other 'LED Grow Light Systems' you are looking at, are not LED Grow Lights, they are red and blue spots or floods purchased for cheap, and sold as 'LED Grow Lights'. Our LGMs are patented in the US by SolarOasis and have several patents pending internationally, no others are patented, not even HPS/MH are patented to grow plants.

 Our LEDs are mostly custom make, consisting of patented proprietary blends."

I wasn't specific as to what application I was thinking of for using their lights... But the company is from Oregon (subsequently I would assume the rep that emailed me is as well). And even though I didn't say I wanted to buy their lights to grow weed, I think he knew that's probably what my intention was. And right now they are the only only commercial company I can find that produces anything in the realm of actual "LED Grow Lights".

I want to give their product a shot, just have to get some more cash together. When I do I'll be sure to create a grow journal and let you guys know what's up.

You can visit their site here;

LED Grow Lights for Plants and Planet


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## jennyj (Sep 19, 2007)

cloudflyer said:


> I love how NASA endorces so many products. Remember Tang lol? No one ever talks about the stupid shit they do like this.
> 
> In the mid 1980's NASA spent millions of dollars developing a pen that could write in space. After suceeding, in order to recoupe their costs they actully sold them to the US public (you may remember this). They also contacted the USSR and asked if they would like to buy space pens that cost millions to make. They replyed, no thanks, we use pencils.


You mention 2 minor nasa contributions. There are many more. We can thank nasa for the comfortable ski clothing that is available today. Trust me growing up in the midwest in the 60's and freezing my elementary rear end off walking to and from school - I will give nasa their due on that one. Who knows - they may also be right about the LED lights. I am willing to keep an open mind.


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## Budzonly (Jun 16, 2008)

Bro I was looking at the same lights and did speak to the rep told him I was growing bud he told me it does work great for veg and bud I am going to ordered 2 of these lights also but @ 260.00 each it was time to pull out the wholesale card to save some bucks. living in hawaii it cost way too much for HPS or MH I do use T5 HID lighting and the rep told me it would be best to augment the LED with a couple on the sides using a 3x6x6 grow box painted white inside. that is what I am building using DWC hydro. so if it works I'll share. 

I am tired of fucking rippers i will not grow outside any longer just got riped for 2 plants in hydro huge buds so 6 Oz loss bummer and some damage to green house but the lil fucker did me a favor i filed a claim to the ins co got a check for $2,500.


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## KenWood (Nov 7, 2009)

Budzonly said:


> Bro I was looking at the same lights and did speak to the rep told him I was growing bud he told me it does work great for veg and bud I am going to ordered 2 of these lights also but @ 260.00 each it was time to pull out the wholesale card to save some bucks. living in hawaii it cost way too much for HPS or MH I do use T5 HID lighting and the rep told me it would be best to augment the LED with a couple on the sides using a 3x6x6 grow box painted white inside. that is what I am building using DWC hydro. so if it works I'll share.
> 
> I am tired of fucking rippers i will not grow outside any longer just got riped for 2 plants in hydro huge buds so 6 Oz loss bummer and some damage to green house but the lil fucker did me a favor i filed a claim to the ins co got a check for $2,500.


I heard you guys pay out the butt in electric over there. I would really check out the LED's. Myself I am testing out a new one that does not look like any of the LED's. Look for my grow journal "New LED" GOOD LUCK


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## SpanishWrangler (Nov 7, 2009)

Hi everyne:

I am doing drip and drain system in 5 gallon buckets in a 7X7X7 tent, with fluorescent lights and LED's light's combiuned. Scientific studies by NASA show that combining these 2 lights will yield a lot more. Of course I also used CO2. I was using dry ice at first until I got my Co2 tank. I keep my Ph 5.8 -6.2 for better absortion of nutrients. Humidity at 50% and temp at 79 degrees.
I irrigate 4 times a day for 30 minutes and I use organic nutrients.
Right now they are just one month old and the other set 1 month 7 days . They look as if one week ahead because it has 4 internodes. They are showing pistillate primordia. They don't look that bad. Rooting is visible below. 

I will keep you posted! 

Peace!


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## SpanishWrangler (Nov 7, 2009)

You can find my panels for $50.00 - $100 on ebay. Better than those plain and expensive led's. 

Peace!


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## GrowGreenGreen (Nov 18, 2009)

berkough said:


> Given what I've read, Lumens aren't really a factor with LEDs. It's more about what area of the spectrum they give off, and the Candela ratings.
> 
> I emailed LED-Grow-Masters, this was the response I got back;
> 
> ...


I have been growing with the Theoreme Innovation TI-600 ProBloom LED growlight. Made in Quebec. Draws 330W. Has diodes in many spectra, including IR and UV, not just red and blue. I'm saving up to buy a second unit to hang from my mover, unless I can find a new contender. I supplement it with 2 60W 2700K CFLs (300W incandescent equiv). This is only for flowering, BTW. for veg, I have 14 23W 6500K CFLs.

The CFLs give me dense foliage with very toight (pronounced 'toyt') internodes. The LED simply needs a twin for me to achieve the same awesome potency and density and calyx-to-leaf ratio while nearly doubling my yield above current levels of 1.25 Oz per plant x 6 plants in a 4 to 5 foot square lighted area. Two plants to one EarthBox container full of FFOF and some dry guanos, all 100% natural and organic. After planting, I simply pour distilled water into the reservoir until full once or twice a week. Granted, I spent a lot on the light, but it works well enough that I want t-- another. (I almost said I want two, but that would be limiting...) All my lighting takes place in less than 1000W and draws only a couple Amps. Even without airflow (vent fans off) in a sealed 8x8x6H box, I watched the LED raise the temp in the room from 75 to 85 deg F, but it took 2 hours and never went higher... All parts of the light while operating are never more than warm to the touch. But don't look at the pretty diodes while on. Especially the UV ones, yeah, the ones that look like they're not on when the rest are. 

G-13, Blue Dream, Bonana, Cinderella99 x Sweettooth, & a mystery seed plant that's def indica. All organic in soil with LED and CFL. Grow Green Green. Get it? Growing the green bud that's ecologically "green." 

Time for my meds now...


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## jone (Jan 15, 2010)

I'm in the Turkey, and one of the things that bothers me for a long time. i have a greenhouse, size 10,000 M2, i want to use led grow lights. pls advise me with supporting design and guidance calcilations. if i choose high power 300w &600w led grow lights. how many should i need.


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## Megalith (Apr 16, 2010)

clekstro said:


> a lot of people on this forum will bust your chops for trying out another form of lighting because they think you should be using exactly what they're using. Why? Because they have the best setup, of course. Arguments nonetheless on behalf of led experimentation abound, and they have budded plants out on other forums, namely Cogi's LED experiment - Reefer World
> 
> These lights are more efficient, the problems are only with wavelength. Everyone brags about HID inefficiency when babbling on about lumens. Lumens are important, but to what end? Driving photosynthesis and other plant processes. So much light is wasted and reflected from the plants with HID's that you're really only operating 100W of light anyways (as it only has 25% efficiency) and the plants use only a small portion of the actual light output. So people like to forget that they're paying for four times more electricity than they need to grow the same crop because they're crop turns out so well and there's a big number on the box that says it puts off lots of lumens. It would be like rating an engine to 500 horsepower and driving a honda civic. Better to start off on our end, with 90% efficiency, then at 25%. It works, but it'll never change unless some people say that with new technology that number is no longer acceptable. It will, after all, be someone experimenting with pot growing that will develop a light harnessing these technologies that becomes rich. All the critics will be wishing they had researched and defended their case with evidence instead of spewing off reasons why you're an asshole for trying something different. Led's are a good start. Just accept the fact that you're experimenting. But that should make it all the more satisfying if you can make it work.
> good luck in whatever you choose, and research led grows on other forums. You won't find as much info here as the environment is not ready for it...


I agree with everything said on this. I am experimenting with two 90 LED's. From what I see out there now a complete 400 watt system is between 3 and 4 hundred. I puchased both my LED's for that price. HID may be tried and true however, LED is the future. Yes they are somewhat costly but would u rather pay 15 dollars a month to grow or 50? I personally think they pay for themselves in the end. If they turn out sucking, then just use them for veg. I know where to get them @ a decent price. I payed less than half for what I seen them advertised. Just ask me where.


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## clekstro (Apr 18, 2010)

Megalith said:


> I agree with everything said on this. I am experimenting with two 90 LED's. From what I see out there now a complete 400 watt system is between 3 and 4 hundred. I puchased both my LED's for that price. HID may be tried and true however, LED is the future. Yes they are somewhat costly but would u rather pay 15 dollars a month to grow or 50? I personally think they pay for themselves in the end. If they turn out sucking, then just use them for veg. I know where to get them @ a decent price. I payed less than half for what I seen them advertised. Just ask me where.


thanks for the vindication 
hit me up with a pm as to the source. i'd be interested...


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## ARaines (Apr 18, 2010)

I'd be interested in a link too.


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