# Why do you reject the theory of evolution?



## Padawanbater2 (Jan 8, 2014)

Just wondering


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## budbro18 (Jan 8, 2014)

Because people follow a book written by nobodies to the T when its meant to be used as a moral compass to live life in a healthy, friendly, and meaningful way.

The even crazier question is why do people despise helping/giving to those less fortunate than them when thats what JC preached the most. (ie right wing bible thumpers who want to destroy govt assistance to the less fortunate)

Its like being a skinhead and beating up white people....


You probably saw that Bill Nye was going to debate that crazy guy who has that museum mapping out a 6000 year earth and humans walking with dinosaurs.

Funniest part was a friend brought his other friend over to smoke and me and my friend were talking about how ridiculous it was that someone had a museum trying to outright lie and that theyre so delusional that they need to bend reality to accommodate the bibles rough time line. Sorry got off topic. But basically he walked in and said he had been there and that he didnt believe in evolution and looked very embarrassed. Which he deserves to be. I didnt feel embarrassed to believe in evolution... hahaha Needless to say it was funny.


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## rcindica (Jan 8, 2014)

Because there are still monkeys..


Humans seem to be devolving..


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## ~CReePeR~ (Jan 8, 2014)

I agree with help those that are less fortunate, but giving them money or food isn't the way to help them. As JESUS CHRIST said "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time".
So as our country is doing, they give a man a fish. When instead we should be teaching a man to fish.


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## budbro18 (Jan 8, 2014)

~CReePeR~ said:


> I agree with help those that are less fortunate, but giving them money or food isn't the way to help them. As JESUS CHRIST said "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time".
> So as our country is doing, they give a man a fish. When instead we should be teaching a man to fish.



these days a man cant fish as well as he used to. its hard to find jobs let alone one that pays a livable wage. especially since "temp agencies" control a good portion of the job market essentially owning the whole lake/ocean to fish in. the only way to fish is to pay them a large portion of your income from a job they "help" you land. 

So because someone strikes a deal with a company means they can take a portion of your earning and you are disposable at the drop of a hat. They dont have to give you the insurance of the non temp workers either. 

How is someone expected to "fish" if someone has a mini monopoly on all the fishing spots??

If you went out to fish and you had to give away 1/3 of the fish you caught to someone for letting you fish somewhere you already should be allowed to, would you be able to survive?? 



Ive looked for jobs for a while. Im not on any govt asst. Worked for a temp agency that got me a job at a factory. A factory i tried to apply at and they said they only hire through temp agencies. How convenient for them.

So i start working and get my first paycheck. I was told i was getting paid 14.50 an hour. A very reasonable pay that one can live on working 40+ hours a week. So im a little surprised when my paycheck was lower than expected. I figured the temp agency took a one time cut for getting me the job and shit. All the fees and what not. 

So then the following week i get a paycheck for the same amount and i get confused. So far over $300 has been takin from my pay checks. So i call the temp agency and say that they must have charged me twice or something.

Turns out then took about 1/3 of my pay, and do so every single time i get paid. Effectively reducing me down to 8.50 or barely 9 an hour. Which is still a good amount of money since i was workin so many hours. But for someone with a family or more bills or college loans to pay it would not be cutting it. Also, since i was a "temp" they didnt have to pay the insurance which could really fuck over a family or someone older. Luckily i rarely get sick or injured. *knocks on wood*

So as if that wasnt bad enough, 3 weeks before my 9 MONTH PROBATION was over i get "let go"

I was a model employee trying my hardest to get a real job and join this company and get paid what i deserved to. Never stepped a foot out of line, never said a bad thing about anyone. Thats just who i am on a day to day basis. I dont start shit and i dont talk shit. Bust my ass because thats what i was taught.

So they have a legal monopoly going on. A company like a temp agency shouldnt even exist. Its one big racket thats allowed to take everything from our working class americans. 

I agree teaching a man to fish is better than to just feed him, but when the fisherman throws you overboard in high seas what are you expected to do?? Most drown and take govt aid. If i wasnt growing i would have needed to as well.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 8, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Just wondering


I embrace both Creation AND evolution.

God created the Big Bang and all the laws of physics and everything that would come after. Evolution was part of Gods plan, to evolve/advance and get smarter, to adapt to a changing enviornment. God obviously knew that the worlds were going to change, so evolution was His plan to let the strongest survive and prosper and adapt to the "ever changing" enviornment.

God and evolution are NOT mutually exclusive. Its not a dichotomy of either God OR evolution; it also can be that God created evolution to fulfill His plans, right?

Obviously, some people dont believe in evolution; and obviously some people dont believe in Creationism. And its their right to believe in whatever they want.

I believe Creation is a fact and I also believe evolution is a fact, it was Gods plan.

This is assuming God is real, like the majority of people believe.

~PEACE~


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## Mister Sister (Jan 9, 2014)

Mermaids.

And no, I am not referring to the documentary that was recently released. If you genuinely want proof, it will find you.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 9, 2014)

Mister Sister said:


> Mermaids.
> 
> And no, I am not referring to the documentary that was recently released. If you genuinely want proof, it will find you.


BAAHAHAHAHAA!!! Made my night! lmao!!!


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 9, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> BAAHAHAHAHAA!!! Made my night! lmao!!!


Im glad to see your always laughing Zaehet. It makes Me happy too.

By the way, happy birthday; Im 28 years old too.

P.S. The truth of the mermaids will find you, lol.

~PEACE~


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 9, 2014)

Mister Sister said:


> Mermaids.
> 
> And no, I am not referring to the documentary that was recently released. If you genuinely want proof, it will find you.


What about mermaids would invalidate the theory of evolution?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 9, 2014)

Oh my glob mermaids are RREEAAALL!! They rule the oceans!!!!


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## Mister Sister (Jan 10, 2014)

Lol. I didn't expect much else when I posted that. 

Mermaids invalidate the theory of evolution for me in the sense of how it is currently taught. It tells me humans have a very close link to water (closer than when the whole earth was water) and land simultaneously. It tells me that history has been rewritten for various reasons. 

They are real, go ahead and laugh, though. It's all good. Bless you all.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

Mister Sister said:


> Lol. I didn't expect much else when I posted that.
> 
> Mermaids invalidate the theory of evolution for me in the sense of how it is currently taught. It tells me humans have a very close link to water (closer than when the whole earth was water) and land simultaneously. It tells me that history has been rewritten for various reasons.
> 
> They are real, go ahead and laugh, though. It's all good. Bless you all.


Elemental of Nature. That link to water that you mentioned is pretty real. The waters = sex (for those interested in studying 'mysteries'), so we do have an incredibly close connection to it


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

~CReePeR~ said:


> I agree with help those that are less fortunate, but giving them money or food isn't the way to help them. As JESUS CHRIST said "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time".
> So as our country is doing, they give a man a fish. When instead we should be teaching a man to fish.


You need perspective and are absolutely wrong. Help is need based as well as situational, you have no idea what helps everyone.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What about mermaids would invalidate the theory of evolution?


This thread is a spectacle, the level of thought is low beyond words. A guilty laugh.


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## Mister Sister (Jan 10, 2014)

Then add something helpful. My 'thoughts' are based on experience, actually.

Troll on boys.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> You need perspective and are absolutely wrong. Help is need based as well as situational, you have no idea what helps everyone.


Help helps everyone.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Mister Sister said:


> Then add something helpful. My 'thoughts' are based on experience, actually.
> 
> Troll on boys.


If your education has not included evolution, I won't be teaching you. Start by reading about Darwin and it is quite interesting. The subject is facts not debate anymore. Evolution happens.


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Jan 10, 2014)

~CReePeR~ said:


> As JESUS CHRIST said "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time".


^ ^ ^ ^ ^
This is an ancient Chinese proverb, not the words of Christ.


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## Mister Sister (Jan 10, 2014)

I don't think you read or understood my posts. I never said evolution does not happen. At any rate, I'll see you folks again maybe some time in the future. Thanks for everything I wish you all the best. Peace


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> If your education has not included evolution, I won't be teaching you. Start by reading about Darwin and it is quite interesting. The subject is facts not debate anymore. Evolution happens.


How does it exclude spirit? Read a bit about this fellow: Lemaître

(Lemaître translates to "Teacher" or "Master")


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2014)

Mister Sister said:


> They are real, go ahead and laugh, though. It's all good. Bless you all.


Riiiight, because there are fossil records and skeletons in every major museum in the country... 







Absolutely no evidence of "aquatic humanoids" has ever been documented. Oh but we are in the real word, with gullible people, who believe in things just because they want to. Silly human animals, always goin around making stuff up to make them feel better...lol!


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

First, spirit must be proven to exist.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> First, spirit must be proven to exist.


And should also be proven _not_ to exist, to be fair 

Regardless of the proof of it, those who feel it is there are equally apt to study the mechanics of it. Theories grow from all kinds of fields


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Riiiight, because there are fossil records and skeletons in every major museum in the country...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yikes, that's harsh.

Strife, they represent something on a deeper level. (water, deeper, see?) Some people get in touch with their inner world and can only describe what they see there. You like your outer world and describe it as you see it.

There is not right or wrong here, sorry.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> And should also be proven _not_ to exist, to be fair
> 
> Regardless of the proof of it, those who feel it is there are equally apt to study the mechanics of it. Theories grow from all kinds of fields


Ok, try and understand that theology or spirituality is dedicated to the spirit and my personal relationship to that is not relevant to evolution. Evolution is a science. Science is observable, repeatable, and is not concerned with adding variables (spirit) that are inconclusive. Science is the pursuit of truth, it has rigid guidelines, it needs to be shown. I don't know what you are asking but my suggestion is to leave the disciplines to exist independent of the other. Evolution applies to microbes, animals, and men as well.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> Evolution is a science. Science is observable, repeatable, and is not concerned with adding variables (spirit) that are inconclusive.


I think this is where we might differ. Science is a tool that can illustrate the hidden mechanics of nature. Evolution is not a science in itself. Perhaps science was born of evolution, out of necessity to help the human condition?


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## Kanaplya (Jan 10, 2014)

~CReePeR~ said:


> I agree with help those that are less fortunate, but giving them money or food isn't the way to help them. As JESUS CHRIST said "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time".
> So as our country is doing, they give a man a fish. When instead we should be teaching a man to fish.


Jesus Christ didn't say that, lol, it's a Chinese proverb...


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> I think this is where we might differ. Science is a tool that can illustrate the hidden mechanics of nature. Evolution is not a science in itself. Perhaps science was born of evolution, out of necessity to help the human condition?


Among 95 percent of scientists believe evolution to be a fact. Science is a defined term. There is no latitude here, perhaps science was an evolutionary trait....it does not make a difference. You wanting evolution to be something does not change data. You need to look up science and evolution.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> You wanting evolution to be something does not change data. You need to look up science and evolution.


Who is trying to change data? You setting something up to knock it down does not make it valid - lol I have yet to even mention data.

Balls deep into science here, but with belief I suppose it is invalid? Wipe all believers from the books of science and do you have any cogent arguments left? The honest answer is no.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Data is what makes evolution a science, so ignoring it is not an option for science of any form? Believe what you will, most exceptionally intelligent people today are atheist or agnostic.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> Believe what you will, most exceptionally intelligent people today are atheist or agnostic.


And if you can identify them, you are not one of them


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## thump easy (Jan 10, 2014)

i dont know about evolution could it be that we are rat experiments to a higher power?? could it be that fosills were planted and confusion was puposly implanted, lost civiliations no records??? could it be we are a simulation on a grid??? the smaller you look into a small partical it is thier yet its not??? could it be its all just a projection??? could it be all a test??? could evolution really be evolution???? its crazzy that we just dont know the facts.. to many missing bones to fit the gaps?? what is the real deal??? i dont know man its crazzy if you ask me.. is it all a distraction from the truth???


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## Wilksey (Jan 10, 2014)

The only problem I have with evolution is the seemingly HUGE intelligence disparity between our species and every other species on the planet.

Intelligence is obviously important to survival, and yet, ours seems to be the only damn species that focused on intelligence throughout the evolutionary path.

Why?

How did we turn out so completely different from our other primate cousins, when they essentially have the same tools we did back in the day. Why didn't / haven't they developed the simple tools we did to hunt? Why don't they use furs to keep warm in colder climates? Why don't they develop more refined "languages" to communicate?

It just seems odd to me, almost as if we had some kind of "help" along the way by....something?

If intelligence is so important to survival, why isn't it reflected in the evolutionary path of the rest of the animal kingdom? 

So while evolution certainly makes sense, IMO, it's only part of the answer.


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## Kanaplya (Jan 10, 2014)

Wilksey said:


> The only problem I have with evolution is the seemingly HUGE intelligence disparity between our species and every other species on the planet.
> 
> Intelligence is obviously important to survival, and yet, ours seems to be the only damn species that focused on intelligence throughout the evolutionary path.
> 
> ...


You have clearly never been to the Deep South...


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> And if you can identify them, you are not one of them


Are you serious? I am not 160+ IQ and these include Nobel prize winners. That makes no sense BTW. Are u a born-again ball buster? If so, needs work turbo.


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## Kanaplya (Jan 10, 2014)

While the levels of intelligence between humans and other primates may seem significant (although some of the lower intelligence humans are closer intellectually to upper divisions of primates than their human counterparts) what we do with that intelligence is pretty much the same. We simply have more sophisticated ways of killing each other. That and porn.


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## theexpress (Jan 10, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Just wondering


 I beleave in evolution.. its funny how we share dna ith lots of different shit on earth.. 98% dna match on chimps.... 70% dna match to sea sponges... 50% dna match to banana trees{wtf} we share 80% dna with cows.... ect. ect. what I don't beleave in is adam and eve... Ill beleave in aleans befor that bullshit


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> Are you serious? I am not 160+ IQ and these include Nobel prize winners. That makes no sense BTW. Are u a born-again ball buster? If so, needs work turbo.


Ah, thanks, but no. Your perspective is a slice of the pie. That goes for all of us humans. Seems as though your quest is to divide, as opposed to make whole. Now we are not even talking about science anymore, just intolerance with a veil of 'data' on it.


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## chewberto (Jan 10, 2014)

"Life" what's that all about?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2014)

thump easy said:


> i dont know about evolution could it be that we are rat experiments to a higher power?? could it be that fosills were planted and confusion was puposly implanted, lost civiliations no records??? could it be we are a simulation on a grid??? the smaller you look into a small partical it is thier yet its not??? could it be its all just a projection??? could it be all a test??? could evolution really be evolution???? its crazzy that we just dont know the facts.. to many missing bones to fit the gaps?? what is the real deal??? i dont know man its crazzy if you ask me.. is it all a distraction from the truth???


Great post dude, mad props. It is nice to find another human in this world that can accept one cold hard fact... theologically and metaphysically speaking- that we don't know SHIT for certain. Beliefs? They call them beliefs because you THINK they are true, not because you KNOW they are true, if you knew they were true then you wouldn't have to fucking believe in them. Is it that hard to understand? 

I know it can be a scary thing to live life without certainty in whatever beliefs you have, but isn't it so much more honest? Doesn't it feel good to not have to lie to yourself, to tell yourself... to pretend you are certain of something that you really aren't certain of?

For most people, the fear of not knowing is too great, they cannot help but make up certainties within their minds in order to cope with the fear of not knowing. I think that is sad, i think that is cowardly, and i think it is a sign of a weak minded person. 

But i for one am no weakling, i don't give a fuck about being lost in a universe without the answers to all of my most important questions. I'm not gonna be a little bitch, fuck that, i'm stronger than that. Gonna live life the best way i can, tryin to help when i can, do what i have been taught and feel is right, and have as much fun as i can before i die.

Fuck pretending, that's for little BITCHES. And there are far too many little bitches on this planet anyways...


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## Wilksey (Jan 10, 2014)

Kanaplya said:


> You have clearly never been to the Deep South...


Indeed, I have.

Amazingly enough, I've met sharp folks everywhere I've traveled, and folks that were....not as sharp.

While the geography may change, the biology is pretty consistent.


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## Kanaplya (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Great post dude, mad props. It is nice to find another human in this world that can accept one cold hard fact... theologically and metaphysically speaking- that we don't know SHIT for certain. Beliefs? They call them beliefs because you THINK they are true, not because you KNOW they are true, if you knew they were true then you wouldn't have to fucking believe in them. Is it that hard to understand?
> 
> I know it can be a scary thing to live life without certainty in whatever beliefs you have, but isn't it so much more honest? Doesn't it feel good to not have to lie to yourself, to tell yourself... to pretend you are certain of something that you really aren't certain of?
> 
> ...


Certainty is boring. My favorite part about life is that you never know the how and the why. The more you know the harder it is to find something that interests you. That is part of why ignorance is bliss - less knowledgeable and intelligent people tend to live happier lives, adjusted for economic standard of living of course, lol. I think the fact that we know that our lives are limited and not knowing what's beyond that is wht makes our lives interesting.

If people truly KNEW (yes, I'm implying that even very religious people are full of doubt on the inside) that they are going to heaven, their lives would be nothing more than waiting rooms and they would have amended the 'no suicide' clause a long time ago.


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## Kanaplya (Jan 10, 2014)




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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> Ah, thanks, but no. Your perspective is a slice of the pie. That goes for all of us humans. Seems as though your quest is to divide, as opposed to make whole. Now we are not even talking about science anymore, just intolerance with a veil of 'data' on it.


Intolerance? I do not care how you view the world and the truth is you don't know anything about me. The spiritual and the sciences I take seriously, and I care when they are not respected. Part of learning is research and more importantly desire to understand. You understand without data, why ask?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2014)

Kanaplya said:


> Certainty is boring. My favorite part about life is that you never know the how and the why.


Is your avatar motha fuckin Vampire Hunter D?!?!?!?! If so... fuckin A man, hells yea!!!

"Uncertainty in the presence of vivid hopes, dreams and fears can be very painful... but must be endured if we wish to live our lives without the support of comforting fairy tales." -Bertrand Russell


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## thump easy (Jan 10, 2014)

well the only clip i have real evidence of real evolution is this..[video=youtube_share;evA-R9OS-Vo]http://youtu.be/evA-R9OS-Vo[/video] but you must see the hole clip and you be the judge.. i grew on these guys and know they have evolved!!!!!


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## thump easy (Jan 10, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;eM0SvzdbsXA]http://youtu.be/eM0SvzdbsXA[/video]


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## thump easy (Jan 10, 2014)

im sorry man i couldnt stop laughing at this video i grew up with these cats early and they the only fools acepted early in rap!!! evolution!!!!!


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## canndo (Jan 10, 2014)

~CReePeR~ said:


> I agree with help those that are less fortunate, but giving them money or food isn't the way to help them. As JESUS CHRIST said "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time".
> So as our country is doing, they give a man a fish. When instead we should be teaching a man to fish.



But let that man ask for bait and tackle and those who believe in teaching a man to fish will call him a bum.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Great post dude, mad props. It is nice to find another human in this world that can accept one cold hard fact... theologically and metaphysically speaking- that we don't know SHIT for certain. Beliefs? They call them beliefs because you THINK they are true, not because you KNOW they are true, if you knew they were true then you wouldn't have to fucking believe in them. Is it that hard to understand?
> 
> I know it can be a scary thing to live life without certainty in whatever beliefs you have, but isn't it so much more honest? Doesn't it feel good to not have to lie to yourself, to tell yourself... to pretend you are certain of something that you really aren't certain of?
> 
> ...


All you know is that you don't know is Agnosticism so manage your pride.


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## canndo (Jan 10, 2014)

Wilksey said:


> The only problem I have with evolution is the seemingly HUGE intelligence disparity between our species and every other species on the planet.
> 
> Intelligence is obviously important to survival, and yet, ours seems to be the only damn species that focused on intelligence throughout the evolutionary path.
> 
> ...


Ah the hubris of man.


Intelligence is not necessary for survival as many many unintelligent orgnisms have been around and thrived for far longer than we. What is "necessary" for survival is an adpativity to that creature's surroundings. Ants are not very intelligen but adherence to a few simple rules have managed have them do quite well.

As for the rest? do you understand the complex communications of trees? whales? other primates? We did not turn out so different than any of our primate cousins or any other mammal either The polar bear is quite comfortable with his furs in the deepest of winters. I can imagine the highly intelligent crow wondering from his high purch or his glide over us all "how is it that man never evolved to fly, after all flight enables us to travel hundreds of miles in a day for our food, and to escape our predators".

It is all a matter of persepctive.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Is intelligence a collection? The brilliant few and the masses riding on coattails.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 10, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> And should also be proven _not_ to exist, to be fair



not really, that's like saying sasquatch exists because it hasn't been proven it doesn't.

it doesn't work like that.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> All you know is that you don't know is Agnosticism so manage your pride.


I am not proud of what i believe or don't believe, pride has no place where beliefs are concerned. Only fools and imbeciles have pride in their theological/metaphysical beliefs.


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## thump easy (Jan 10, 2014)

so i take it you guys dont believe that beasty boys evolved????? shit i like the marachie on the limo!!!!!


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> Yikes, that's harsh.
> 
> Strife, they represent something on a deeper level. (water, deeper, see?) Some people get in touch with their inner world and can only describe what they see there. You like your outer world and describe it as you see it.
> 
> There is not right or wrong here, sorry.


Someone who believes in mermaids (who is above 12 years old)... is fuckin stupid, harsh it may be, but reality can be a harsh mistress. /shakes head

The same can be said for people who are adults that still believe in the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy, or santa clause... would you not call them fuckin stupid if they refused to acknowledge the truth of the matter when faced with it?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> not really, that's like saying sasquatch exists because it hasn't been proven it doesn't.
> 
> it doesn't work like that.


I agree, no one has proven that fairies or dragons don't exist. And because never in the history of mankind has either of those been seen, or bones been collected or evidence been gathered... we can safely assume that the most logical standpoint is that, no, as far as we can tell so far... fairies and dragons do not exist, the same can be said for a soul.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I am not proud of what i believe or don't believe, pride has no place where beliefs are concerned. Only fools and imbeciles have pride in their theological/metaphysical beliefs.


That is certainly true, you earn pride I believe. You are saying, to a degree, that I am full of shit for what I say with a high level of certainty as well. Just be aware that is how you sound. Take it for whatever it is worth.


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## Kanaplya (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I agree, no one has proven that fairies or dragons don't exist. And because never in the history of mankind has either of those been seen, or bones been collected or evidence been gathered... we can safely assume that the most logical standpoint is that, no, as far as we can tell so far... fairies and dragons do not exist, the same can be said for a soul.


But when you really thing of it, a creature with a woman's body and a fish tail is at least physiologically feasible opposed to an all knowing all powerful white bearded man in the sky. And Dragons live in Indonesia...


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## redeyedfrog (Jan 10, 2014)

We must have a soul, I didn't say there must be a god but without a soul we would be nothing but a bag of meat and bones.
There is within us all a divine spark that makes us who we are. That energy must have started somewhere and must also go somewhere when we expire. Forget the theological side of things and take a big hit exhale and think about and contemplate the idea that the human soul does exist. We are not human beings having a spiritual experience rather spiritual beings having a human experience.


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## redeyedfrog (Jan 10, 2014)

Kanaplya said:


> But when you really thing of it, a creature with a woman's body and a fish tail is at least physiologically feasible opposed to an all knowing all powerful white bearded man in the sky. And Dragons live in Indonesia...



Dude those are big lizards with nasty teeth and deadly bacteria, not fire breathing giants with wings!


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## tyler.durden (Jan 10, 2014)

redeyedfrog said:


> We must have a soul, I didn't say there must be a god but without a soul we would be nothing but a bag of meat and bones.
> There is within us all a divine spark that makes us who we are. That energy must have started somewhere and must also go somewhere when we expire. Forget the theological side of things and take a big hit exhale and think about and contemplate the idea that the human soul does exist. *We are not human beings having a spiritual experience rather spiritual beings having a human experience.*


*

*This is fun - http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> That is certainly true, you earn pride I believe. You are saying, to a degree, that I am full of shit for what I say with a high level of certainty as well. Just be aware that is how you sound. Take it for whatever it is worth.


This is absolutely not what i am saying. You can be as sure of whatever you believe in if you want, but there are no levels of certainty my friend. There is certain, or not certain. When we eradicate the notion of doubt with our beliefs, we eradicate all of the different possibilities that the world has to offer. I am not saying that you are wrong, far from it. All i am saying, is that the possibility exists that you MIGHT be wrong, and to deny that possibility, is to deny reality. 

I do not think you are full of shit, i think you are full of bad da' fuck ass ideas that i sincerely enjoy reading about. I apologize for the miscommunication man, didn't mean for it to sound that way brotha.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> This is absolutely not what i am saying. You can be as sure of whatever you believe in if you want, but there are no levels of certainty my friend. There is certain, or not certain. When we eradicate the notion of doubt with our beliefs, we eradicate all of the different possibilities that the world has to offer. I am not saying that you are wrong, far from it. All i am saying, is that the possibility exists that you MIGHT be wrong, and to deny that possibility, is to deny reality.
> 
> I do not think you are full of shit, i think you are full of bad da' fuck ass ideas that i sincerely enjoy reading about. I apologize for the miscommunication man, didn't mean for it to sound that way brotha.


It's cool, I can appreciate that. I think to live in between fact and fiction serves the artist, musician, or philosopher well but doesn't uncertainty tend to negate learning sometimes. In reality I am not a slave to certainty and it is hard because so many are. The concept of uncertainty is alienating


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Someone who believes in mermaids (who is above 12 years old)... is fuckin stupid, harsh it may be, but reality can be a harsh mistress. /shakes head
> 
> The same can be said for people who are adults that still believe in the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy, or santa clause... would you not call them fuckin stupid if they refused to acknowledge the truth of the matter when faced with it?


I'll take Jung's word on fantasy over yours any day. Here, have a Flintstone vitamin.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> not really, that's like saying sasquatch exists because it hasn't been proven it doesn't.
> 
> it doesn't work like that.


Be so kind as to explain why?


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## Someacdude (Jan 10, 2014)

This is an excellent thread topic, just keeping my place here so i dont use it. 
This topic can be discussed civilly and is in fact fascinating and i believe in a creator.
For the record , i dont hate atheists or anyone really, maybe pedophiles etc. But they certainly have nothing to do with the other.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> It's cool, I can appreciate that. I think to live in between fact and fiction serves the artist, musician, or philosopher well but doesn't uncertainty tend to negate learning sometimes. In reality I am not a slave to certainty and it is hard because so many are. The concept of uncertainty is alienating


There is a very big difference between reality... the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them, and theological/metaphysical ideas do not reside in reality. 

A famous writer once said- Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. 

There are physical and chemical laws that we can learn about within reality, what is here when we are awake and not dreaming. We can measure, test, study, examine all of the wonderful things that this universe has produced from the time it was born until now. We can't be certain, but we can have a very high probability that our planet will continue to rotate and the sun will stay in the "same spot" and "rise" in the morning when we wake up. 

In this existence nothing is certain, but there are varying probabilities. Probabilities can be set within reality, because we can observe and measure them.
Theology and metaphysics, these do not originate and can never be within the realm of reality... they reside in the realm of imagination, and within the realm of imagination... every idea has an equal amount of probability and possibility as any other idea. 

For example, the idea that god exists has an equal amount of probability that god doesn't exist. _Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence._ God or Gods may or may not exist, there is an equal chance that they do or don't exist, the same can be said about souls. Because Gods and souls... they are not REAL per-say, they are IDEAS... nothing more, but nothing less.

Increased or decreased probability in a theological or metaphysical standpoint does not exist within reality, only in imagination... in which every probability or possibility exists equally. 

Increase or decreased probability only exists within reality, a realm which can be measured, tested, studied, and shown to everyone else on the planet so they can see and experience it for themselves. 

I hope this makes sense man.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> This is an excellent thread topic, just keeping my place here so i dont use it.
> This topic can be discussed civilly and is in fact fascinating and i believe in a creator.
> For the record , i dont hate atheists or anyone really, maybe pedophiles etc. But they certainly have nothing to do with the other.


there is the option of not knowing


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 10, 2014)

Fairy Tales at MIT?


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## Letstrip (Jan 10, 2014)

rcindica said:


> Because there are still monkeys..
> 
> 
> Humans seem to be devolving..



Humans did not evolve from monkeys. Instead, monkeys and humans share a common ancestor from which both evolved around 25 million years ago.


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## ElfoodStampo (Jan 10, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Just wondering


Because all we see around us is micro evolution. Changing size, and different genetic traits, but there is no proof of macro evolution.
I don't follow a faith but i do believe we were designed.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> There is a very big difference between reality... the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them, and theological/metaphysical ideas do not reside in reality.
> 
> A famous writer once said- Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
> 
> ...


More and more it does. I see a lot of overlap between metaphysics and quantum mechanics in that logical solutions are probabilities and cannot be directly observed. Science is blurring the sacred line with new neurology, devices that operate off of intent, principle of uncertainty. The interests are more in gaining a wisdom, mastery, and retaining a beginners mind. The path towards enlightenment. The God concept is not relevant however I am inclined to see divinity in the beauty and the mathematics of aesthetics.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> More and more it does. I see a lot of overlap between metaphysics and quantum mechanics in that logical solutions are probabilities and cannot be directly observed. Science is blurring the sacred line with new neurology, devices that operate off of intent, principle of uncertainty. The interests are more in gaining a wisdom, mastery, and retaining a beginners mind. The path towards enlightenment. The God concept is not relevant however I am inclined to see divinity in the beauty and the mathematics of aesthetics.


Enlightenment to me, is an idea that has come into being, to give hope to those who have given up on life... who have lost the will to live this life for what it is, to desire a life better than the one given to them this moment, right now. 

Isn't this enough? This life, this one life, this astounding universe... isn't this enough? 

To most, it isn't, so they pretend the certainty of an idea of enlightenment, to escape from the reality of that which is... to travel into a reality of that which they want it to be. 

I ask again... isn't this enough??!!



It is for me. I don't need to believe in things that i cannot perceive without my senses in order to be happy. I have my health, my friends and my family... that is enough for me... i don't need fairy tales.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Enlightenment to me, is an idea that has come into being, to give hope to those who have given up on life... who have lost the will to live this life for what it is, to desire a life better than the one given to them this moment, right now.
> 
> Isn't this enough? This life, this one life, this astounding universe... isn't this enough?
> 
> ...


No, enlightenment I can articulate best as it applies to sculpture. The way is to attain a fulfillment and allow the reflection of that abundance into artwork or anything. It is an inner certainty. A way of processing your art with attention to the eternal. You find balance and meaning in the application of design. It is a gentle path toward the unknown. It is not escape, it is me. My work tells the story far better.


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## Letstrip (Jan 10, 2014)

We are all just the universe experiencing itself


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## joe macclennan (Jan 10, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I agree, no one has proven that fairies or dragons don't exist. And because never in the history of mankind has either of those been seen, or bones been collected or evidence been gathered... we can safely assume that the most logical standpoint is that, no, as far as we can tell so far... fairies and dragons do not exist, the same can be said for a soul.


I think zaehet said it best. ^^



eye exaggerate said:


> Be so kind as to explain why?


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 11, 2014)

Jung said it best, so far, but thanks Joe.

"The judgment of the intellect is, at best, only the half of truth, and must, if it be honest, also come to an understanding of its inadequacy."



We Shall Naturally look round in vain the macrophysical world for acausal events, for the simple reason that we cannot imagine events that are connected non-causally and are capable of a non-causal explanation. But that does not mean that such events do not exist... The so-called "scientific view of the world" based on this can hardly be anything more than a psychologically biased partial view which misses out all those by no means unimportant aspects that cannot be grasped statistically.

p. 5



Primitive superstition lies just below the surface of even the most tough-minded individuals, and it is precisely those who most fight against it who are the first to succumb to its suggestive effects.

I could spend the next 2 days pasting quotes from thinkers that have more intellectual prowess than Strife (and Strife) who understand the limits of the intellect.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 11, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> Jung said it best, so far, but thanks Joe.
> 
> "The judgment of the intellect is, at best, only the half of truth, and must, if it be honest, also come to an understanding of its inadequacy."
> 
> ...


Original thinking, passive aggression, or cut and paste? Primitive right?


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

rcindica said:


> Because there are still monkeys..
> 
> 
> Humans seem to be devolving..


The missing link is indeed a lie, it has never and will never be found. Every time some scientist tries to claim it, it turns out to either be a hoax like piltdown man or some other mistake.
Science wants to BE GOD , much like Doctors , there is no missing link in the fossil record , in fact ti doesnt exist. 
Looking at it from a creationist standpoint, If the Bible is correct and mankind chose to believe they can be like God as the serpent tempted Eve, yes we are thousands of years removed from our original human birth parents , makes perfect sense.

Science is a lie in many cases. The sell pills instead of better diet , they crave notoriety and fame, many are unhappy and if creationism is mentioned , the scientific community has a tendency to try and destroy that person, and thats a cold hard FACT.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 11, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> Original thinking, passive aggression, or cut and paste? Primitive right?


I would say that your signature fits well with that post


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## wallis91 (Jan 11, 2014)

I guess the more we have to do different things long time the more we will evolve



rcindica said:


> Because there are still monkeys..
> 
> 
> Humans seem to be devolving..


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> The missing link is indeed a lie, it has never and will never be found. Every time some scientist tries to claim it, it turns out to either be a hoax like piltdown man or some other mistake.
> Science wants to BE GOD , much like Doctors , there is no missing link in the fossil record , in fact ti doesnt exist.
> Looking at it from a creationist standpoint, If the Bible is correct and mankind chose to believe they can be like God as the serpent tempted Eve, yes we are thousands of years removed from our original human birth parents , makes perfect sense.
> 
> Science is a lie in many cases. The sell pills instead of better diet , they crave notoriety and fame, many are unhappy and if creationism is mentioned , the scientific community has a tendency to try and destroy that person, and thats a cold hard FACT.


Science is simply a tool we use to explain the world, it doesn't (and can't) "want" anything

Anyone who espouses creationism in a professional or academic setting *should be* destroyed, just like anyone who denied the holocaust


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## canndo (Jan 11, 2014)

ElfoodStampo said:


> Because all we see around us is micro evolution. Changing size, and different genetic traits, but there is no proof of macro evolution.
> I don't follow a faith but i do believe we were designed.


 
that is like getting on the 10 in California and being told, "well, you can go to Texas but you will never get to Florida. Evidence is everywhere, even in your own body.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 11, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Science is simply a tool we use to explain the world, it doesn't (and can't) "want" anything
> 
> *Anyone who espouses creationism in a professional or academic setting should be destroyed*, just like anyone who denied the holocaust


Based on what criteria? Please post one that still isn't waiting for answers to unsolved questions in order to make it complete.

Good luck

Why don't you guys try to tackle some of those instead of people who have learned to describe their inner world with terms that make you uncomfortable?

Matter has an inner world, we can't fully describe it yet.

People, made of matter, also have an inner world that we are trying our best to describe.


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## canndo (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> The missing link is indeed a lie, it has never and will never be found. Every time some scientist tries to claim it, it turns out to either be a hoax like piltdown man or some other mistake.
> Science wants to BE GOD , much like Doctors , there is no missing link in the fossil record , in fact ti doesnt exist.
> Looking at it from a creationist standpoint, If the Bible is correct and mankind chose to believe they can be like God as the serpent tempted Eve, yes we are thousands of years removed from our original human birth parents , makes perfect sense.
> 
> Science is a lie in many cases. The sell pills instead of better diet , they crave notoriety and fame, many are unhappy and if creationism is mentioned , the scientific community has a tendency to try and destroy that person, and thats a cold hard FACT.


there is no "missing link" because that is not how evolution works. And science is not evolution any more than religeon is God. Your argument is made from ignorance of both evolution, science and religion.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 11, 2014)

If the natural world is complete, how can you properly assess its advantages and disadvantages with a fragmented view? Imagine a person at the helm of scientific endeavour using terms like 'destroy' to describe a task. It is no longer about science and more about mentality.

"us" - study from the inside out.

"them" - study from the outside in.

I can't see a difference, I really can't.


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## Wilksey (Jan 11, 2014)

canndo said:


> Ah the hubris of man.
> 
> 
> Intelligence is not necessary for survival as many many unintelligent orgnisms have been around and thrived for far longer than we. What is "necessary" for survival is an adpativity to that creature's surroundings. Ants are not very intelligen but adherence to a few simple rules have managed have them do quite well.
> ...


I agree with pretty much all of that, however, I can find no logical conclusion that would allow for our species, ALONE, to develop the ability to understand and manipulate fire when we did.

It just doesn't make sense.

Compare any biological species within a genus and you find that the intelligence levels are relatively streamlined, as is the use of tools, if any. This shows that nature is a lazy bitch that likes to repeat herself, and this repetition is also reflected in the cosmos, as evidenced by the multitude of stars and galaxies that share many of the same characteristics. Why did OUR species deviate from the "norms" found in nature when we came from the very same nature that produced everything else?

Polar bears, hell, BEARS developed fat layers and fur to keep warm. That makes sense and jives with everything else in nature. Humans, however, developed clothing and the use of fire instead. That's not natural, and no other species on the planet took that route. That intellectual and technological leap just seems far too large to be "natural", as no other species took that same route, or has taken it since.

The seemingly "exceptional" route our species has taken seems way, way, WAY out of place compared with our peers in the animal kingdom, and it is this "exceptionalism" that leads me to believe that evolution is only PART of the story concerning our species.

Granted, I could very well be giving our species FAR more credit than we deserve concerning "intelligence", but it seems to me that we are the proverbial square peg on a planet of round holes.


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Science is simply a tool we use to explain the world, it doesn't (and can't) "want" anything
> 
> Anyone who espouses creationism in a professional or academic setting *should be* destroyed, just like anyone who denied the holocaust


Really, well im guessing its ok to the *theory* of evolution to well, just about anyone. Science is not a tool, its BIG BUSINESS, its also man kinds excuse for so many evil deeds.


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

canndo said:


> there is no "missing link" because that is not how evolution works. And science is not evolution any more than religeon is God. Your argument is made from ignorance of both evolution, science and religion.


And your argument is ,,,,nothing? Just a vague rebuttal of someone elses view, kinda like,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,evolution? 
I didnt come up with the missing link, and if that fairy tale has been proven wrong what did they come up with next? The big bang.

Lets do an experiment. 
Go into your grow room and explode every seed one at a time , get back to me on what percentage became 'alive' oh yeah, first ,,,,,make your own seeds out of nothing.
Ignorance indeed.


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;eYDwWbDhCEg]http://youtu.be/eYDwWbDhCEg[/video]im dead serious just watch im not joking the sequence is from a creator a grid.. the blue print of a matrix... to be or not to be, do you understand!! call me crazzy but the grid is real matrix homie the matrix.. that shit is real as a mother fucker!!!!i believe in the sequence it is math it is how my buds are formed if only i could read the seqence to understand the forieghn languege i could repair cells or break cancer split the cells play with the cells make it and read it like a book...fix aids and any kind of disorders their gota be a way it has to be posable the manipulation is possable it comen scence just cant read the langueage..


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;9oSePXRbW9o]http://youtu.be/9oSePXRbW9o[/video]


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;ZUWbeep9sC4]http://youtu.be/ZUWbeep9sC4[/video]


----------



## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;nt2OlMAJj6o]http://youtu.be/nt2OlMAJj6o[/video]


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;7Uo4Oond1e8]http://youtu.be/7Uo4Oond1e8[/video]


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

[video=youtube;De0EsBwG91k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De0EsBwG91k&amp;list=PLPpmoO9v2RoNmGDYDw2FBRpb h2QrJHXfC&amp;feature=share[/video]this one is a lil more well explained..


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

[video=youtube;ktLcSH4UkpE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktLcSH4UkpE&amp;list=PLPpmoO9v2RoNmGDYDw2FBRpb h2QrJHXfC&amp;feature=share&amp;index=7[/video]


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

[video=youtube;KpBfbzxS1l4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpBfbzxS1l4&amp;feature=share&amp;list=PLPpmoO9v2R oNmGDYDw2FBRpbh2QrJHXfC&amp;index=8[/video]well that just my opionion thank you for taking the time to see what lingers in my brain..


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## Heisenberg (Jan 11, 2014)

"The Aquatic Ape Theory says humans went through an aquatic or semi-aquatic stage in our evolution and that this accounts for many features seen in human anatomy and physiology. Using the principle of convergent evolution, it says that life in an aquatic environment explains these features, and that a transition from ape to hominid in a non-aquatic environment cannot. 

This web page offers a critical examination of the Aquatic Ape Theory, treating it as a serious scientific theory."

http://www.aquaticape.org/


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## Heisenberg (Jan 11, 2014)

"&#966;, the golden ratio, and the Fibonacci series are mathematically interesting and do have natural manifestations. That doesn't mean everything, or even anything else, is based on them. The popularity and "big name" of the "divine proportion" has been the real driver of its pseudoscientific assignment to just about anything and everything. Those whose brains' pattern-matching software is in overdrive have probably heard of the golden ratio, and so it's the one they think of whenever they see a rectangle, or a great work of art (like the Mona Lisa, which is not based on the golden ratio), or patterns in the stock market (which don't exist at all, let alone at the golden ratio), or in the numerology of the Bible (unless any other number is allowed to be considered just as significant). Not every claim about the golden ratio is the result of hyperactive pattern matching, but most are. At a minimum, such a claim is always a good tipoff that you should be skeptical."

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4325


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> The missing link is indeed a lie, it has never and will never be found. Every time some scientist tries to claim it, it turns out to either be a hoax like piltdown man or some other mistake.
> Science wants to BE GOD , much like Doctors , there is no missing link in the fossil record , in fact ti doesnt exist.
> Looking at it from a creationist standpoint, If the Bible is correct and mankind chose to believe they can be like God as the serpent tempted Eve, yes we are thousands of years removed from our original human birth parents , makes perfect sense.
> 
> Science is a lie in many cases. The sell pills instead of better diet , they crave notoriety and fame, many are unhappy and if creationism is mentioned , the scientific community has a tendency to try and destroy that person, and thats a cold hard FACT.


I am sorry, you are a rare species these days. The question is where to start? The creationism idea comes with a bible attached full of myths you believe on faith? If god created man and man created science that is evil then what? When were dinosaurs invented and destroyed? Science does not lie, people do. Faith is nothing but a celebration of the lack of critical thought. Science pre-dates big business and can be practiced by anyone.


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

Heisenberg said:


> "&#966;, the golden ratio, and the Fibonacci series are mathematically interesting and do have natural manifestations. That doesn't mean everything, or even anything else, is based on them. The popularity and "big name" of the "divine proportion" has been the real driver of its pseudoscientific assignment to just about anything and everything. Those whose brains' pattern-matching software is in overdrive have probably heard of the golden ratio, and so it's the one they think of whenever they see a rectangle, or a great work of art (like the Mona Lisa, which is not based on the golden ratio), or patterns in the stock market (which don't exist at all, let alone at the golden ratio), or in the numerology of the Bible (unless any other number is allowed to be considered just as significant). Not every claim about the golden ratio is the result of hyperactive pattern matching, but most are. At a minimum, such a claim is always a good tipoff that you should be skeptical."
> 
> [video=youtube_share;nxDGbHG5abw]http://youtu.be/nxDGbHG5abw[/video]
> 
> http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4325


 no but this video is a great example.. this one is pritty cool too and not as long he talks about the golden ratio, lolz my real name is ratio


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

but i still say this explains it better!!!!!![video=youtube_share;eM0SvzdbsXA]http://youtu.be/eM0SvzdbsXA[/video]listen to the words those are my exzact thoughts.. but for realz im not all hear.. so dont pay attention its best.. let me do my thing.. continue on thats just me thow... Its all complicated gee thats just me!!!


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;294inCu4olo]http://youtu.be/294inCu4olo[/video]know im just being stoopid sorry i love these guys..its a sabotage.. i do believe in god that just me.. and i know thier is an energy against it and me...


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

This is very convoluted , can you try and make it simpler for me because i have no idea what you mean.
Science predates the Bible? Faith? What is science / evolution except faith? Yes science IS a religion.
The bible full of myth? Really, the same book that said the earth was round thousands of years ago? The same one with an unparalleled record for proving prophecy? The same one that makes perfect sense IF YOU READ IT. 
let me guess, whats next, how the earth was created in 6 days and the derision that comes along with people WHO DO NOT READ IT?
A day to god is like a thousand to us, yes thats in the bible, dinosaurs? Huh? Whats are you trying to say? 

Im willing to bet those who hold the bible inderision do so out of either selfishness or because they where hurt by one of gods so called messengers ie the electrric church or someone else supposedly following christian princepals . The bible is very clear that there are some who 'have a form of godly devotion but prove false to its power'

I find it very dissapointing when people make up their mind BEFORE reading BOTH SIDES. Of course the Bible has been dug through the mud by many many evil people over the centurys and made to look bad. But find a more accurate document that retells history warts and all. 





burgertime2010 said:


> I am sorry, you are a rare species these days. The question is where to start? The creationism idea comes with a bible attached full of myths you believe on faith? If god created man and man created science that is evil then what? When were dinosaurs invented and destroyed? Science does not lie, people do. Faith is nothing but a celebration of the lack of critical thought. Science pre-dates big business and can be practiced by anyone.


----------



## burgertime2010 (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> This is very convoluted , can you try and make it simpler for me because i have no idea what you mean.
> Science predates the Bible? Faith? What is science / evolution except faith? Yes science IS a religion.
> The bible full of myth? Really, the same book that said the earth was round thousands of years ago? The same one with an unparalleled record for proving prophecy? The same one that makes perfect sense IF YOU READ IT.
> let me guess, whats next, how the earth was created in 6 days and the derision that comes along with people WHO DO NOT READ IT?
> ...


I apologize if you believe a childrens book and believe anyone who doesn't to be evil or selfish. Faith is believing in Jonah living in a fish for days, or virgin birth, or walking on water. You also do not recognize that many very similar religions predated Christianity and the Gospels were written by men 400 years after Christ. They are no more accurate than your memory of a time you were not there to recall. The Bible causes more death and despair than any document ever written, it is to subjugate the masses, and inhibit the wonder and curiousity that we are born into as humans.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> This is very convoluted , can you try and make it simpler for me because i have no idea what you mean.
> Science predates the Bible? Faith? What is science / evolution except faith? Yes science IS a religion.
> The bible full of myth? Really, the same book that said the earth was round thousands of years ago? The same one with an unparalleled record for proving prophecy? The same one that makes perfect sense IF YOU READ IT.
> let me guess, whats next, how the earth was created in 6 days and the derision that comes along with people WHO DO NOT READ IT?
> ...


what exactly is the bible? 

other than a book of stories interpreted and translated so many times no one can be certain if these things ever happened or not. 

and I was raised christian, and a confirmed methodist. So I am quite aware of both sides. 

while I may not be an expert on either subject, rational reasoning outweighs a book of stories.....that is all.


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

I apologize if you believe this, that is also not what i said.
You evidently hate the Bible , you have made your choice, however. Put words in my mouth one more time and i will have to put you on ignore, im sorry but in order to scren out hateful people, thats just what i do.
The Bible was written by men inspired by God, a written record was not required at first because?????? There where not that many people on earth yet, You find it just fine that so many writers kept the same theme over thousands of years? 


*The Bible causes more death and despair than any document ever written, it is to subjugate the masses, and inhibit the wonder and curiousity that we are born into as humans.

*No evil people may use anything, im guessing Albert Einstien is then a evil mass murder who only wanted to subjugate the masses. 

If you have no interest in discussing this please let me know, heres one of my favorite scriptures.2 timmothy 2:23 *Avoid foolish and thoughtless discussions, since you know that they produce conflicts.*
See, maybe someone here really want to know why a person believes the bible, maybe they want to know without all the hatred and nonsense. 
Seriously, i dont hunt down scientific threads and just bash and disrespect , are you serious in your belief or just want to be right?




burgertime2010 said:


> I apologize if you believe a childrens book and believe anyone who doesn't to be evil or selfish. Faith is believing in Jonah living in a fish for days, or virgin birth, or walking on water. You also do not recognize that many very similar religions predated Christianity and the Gospels were written by men 400 years after Christ. They are no more accurate than your memory of a time you were not there to recall. The Bible causes more death and despair than any document ever written, it is to subjugate the masses, and inhibit the wonder and curiousity that we are born into as humans.


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

joe macclennan said:


> other than a book of stories interpreted and translated so many times no one can be certain if these things ever happened or not.
> 
> and I was raised christian, and a confirmed methodist. So I am quite aware of both sides.
> 
> while I may not be an expert on either subject, rational reasoning outweighs a book of stories.....that is all.


what exactly is the bible? *An accurate historical document even used by scientists , perhaps many have never been enlightened but the discovery of the Roseta Stone actually backed up many things previously not believed by many. Also the historian Josephus was flat out called a biblical * *fraud*, as if he never existed , *was identified by back up scrolls. Seriously, if the science **was honest , it would give credit where credit is due, instead they enslave others with there own twisted thinking.*

Question , how many here have read the Bible cover to cover, even once? See most never ever do, they rely on someone else methodist, whatever to TELL THEM WHATS IN IT. In other words, you dont really know whats in the bible, story, myth? How would anyone who has never read the entire little book ever know. 
btw, the king James version has over 1200 errors in it and is by far the most accurate, a gift in a dark world at the time, but not a myth.

It wasnt so long ago people where being burnt at the stake for even owning one, why, because evil people wanted power instead of humbly doing gods will, and repeat, and repeat and repeat,,,the only reason it works today is because even though its available no one reads it.

Hating the Bible because what religion has done in its name is again about as smart as hating science for what its done, high fruitcose corn syrup is one of the biggest killers of all


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 11, 2014)

I believe its possible that the aliens genetically engineered humans, maybe hundeds of thousands of years ago, or maybe millions of years ago. That could be why we are so unique compared to the rest of the animal kingdom, and sanctified as a new and advanced species.

Im not saying its fact, but it is possible that aliens engineered our DNA.

Im just saying.

~PEACE~


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> I apologize if you believe this, that is also not what i said.
> You evidently hate the Bible , you have made your choice, however. Put words in my mouth one more time and i will have to put you on ignore, im sorry but in order to scren out hateful people, thats just what i do.
> The Bible was written by men inspired by God, a written record was not required at first because?????? There where not that many people on earth yet, You find it just fine that so many writers kept the same theme over thousands of years?
> 
> ...


If you are offended I do apologize...our world views are simply different to a degree that I get fired up. You are free to ignore, and just be aware that the scriptures and politics are passionate places.....you are going to elicit conflicts. My beliefs are honest, and you can't be right in terms of religion.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> I apologize if you believe this, that is also not what i said.
> You evidently hate the Bible , you have made your choice, however. Put words in my mouth one more time and i will have to put you on ignore, im sorry but in order to scren out hateful people, thats just what i do.
> The Bible was written by men inspired by God, a written record was not required at first because?????? There where not that many people on earth yet, You find it just fine that so many writers kept the same theme over thousands of years?
> 
> ...


Really, you wanna talk bible verses? Bro... have you even ever READ the fuckin bible???

(Judges 21:10-24 NLT) 
_ So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan._

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT) 
_ They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings  Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba  died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. _

_ Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves._

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14) 
_ As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you._

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT) 
_ If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB) 
 If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) 
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. 

(Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB) 
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, *women ravished*; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.  




_*I can keep going, and going, and going, the bible is FUCKED UP! If you have ever even picked up the thing and read it in its entirety, you may have a grasp on just how fucked up that book really is. *


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> If you are offended I do apologize...our world views are simply different to a degree that I get fired up. You are free to ignore, and just be aware that the scriptures and politics are passionate places.....you are going to elicit conflicts. My beliefs are honest, and you can't be right in terms of religion.


Got nothing but love for ya bro.
As someone who really tries to be a christian im even more at odds with what has been done to a gift from God, by evil men who use it for their ow uses, it has enslaved millions in their hands.
Believe it or not the trinity , tithing, and NONE of the holidays today are condoned by scripture , in fact they are rooted i false religion. When the rcc decided to enslave people years ago they let just about anyone into their church and allowed them to bring in their pagan practices, therefore a fertility rite became easter, fear of the dead became all hallows / Halloween and on and on, google any major religions holiday and find their roots. 

I hate false religion as much as anyone, but i love the bible , it realy is worth a read, it can be like Shakespeare a bit because things where written for that common tongue and it takes a bit of research to find out what its meaning is , take care.


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

Old testament taken totally out of context, you i feel sorry for, or whoever did this to you.








Zaehet Strife said:


> Really, you wanna talk bible verses? Bro... have you even ever READ the fuckin bible???
> 
> (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
> _ So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan._
> ...


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

Old testament taken totally out of context, you i feel sorry for, or whoever did this to you.
Sorry, but lifes to short to spend it talking to someone as hateful and unenlightened as you, nothing good would come from it. If you can show even 1/4th the respect i do in my posts maybe we can talk, otherwise i will have to place you on ignore, again not out of malice, but really, i wouldnt let you talk to me in person that way, im not going to let you talk to me on here that way, fair enough?

We can take apart each scripture one by one, just not here, this is about evolution








Zaehet Strife said:


> Really, you wanna talk bible verses? Bro... have you even ever READ the fuckin bible???
> 
> (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
> _ So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan._
> ...


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 11, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> Based on what criteria?


Based on the fact that creationism/intelligent design isn't science, it's religion, and religion doesn't belong in any scientific or academic setting unless it's viewed in a historical context



eye exaggerate said:


> Imagine a person at the helm of scientific endeavour using terms like 'destroy' to describe a task. It is no longer about science and more about mentality.


You used the word first, I was being consistent. Would you rather I said "anyone who espouses creationism/intelligent design should have their ideas tested using the scientific method"? They have, every one of them, hundreds of times... and yet they persist. In my opinion, these thoroughly disproved ideas stick around because religion is a heated subject and not many people other than Hitchens, Dawkins and that circle are strong enough in their beliefs to stand up against them. So when people like William Lane Craig or Ken Hamm get their ass handed to them in a debate, I think the word "destroy" is very applicable



Wilksey said:


> I agree with pretty much all of that, however, I can find no logical conclusion that would allow for our species, ALONE, to develop the ability to understand and manipulate fire when we did.
> 
> It just doesn't make sense.
> 
> ...


This is all a matter of perspective. Intelligence was our niche, it's what worked for us so no surprise it continues to increase as more time passes, right? We weeded out all the natural competition so resources were abundant. Take our species back just 12,000 years and we're right there next to our ape cousins, likely with no written language, no agriculture, simple hunter gatherers. A lot of time has passed, plenty of time for us to advance to where we are today. The stories organized religions tell are so much more fantastical and inconsistent with reality than what the actual model suggests happened



Someacdude said:


> Science is not a tool, its BIG BUSINESS, its also man kinds excuse for so many evil deeds.



Science was around long before capitalism. It is a tool, just like I could use a hammer to nail in a nail, you could use that exact same hammer to bash someones head in with, you blaming science for creating the atom bomb is like you blaming the hammer for bashing the guys skull in 



Someacdude said:


> And your argument is ,,,,nothing? Just a vague rebuttal of someone elses view, kinda like,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,evolution?
> I didnt come up with the missing link, and if that fairy tale has been proven wrong what did they come up with next? The big bang.
> 
> Lets do an experiment.
> ...


Why do you claim the theory of evolution is wrong when you don't understand the basics of how it works?



Someacdude said:


> Faith? What is science / evolution except faith? Yes science IS a religion.


Science is the exact opposite of organized religion by its definition, religion requires faith, science requires evidence



Someacdude said:


> The bible full of myth? Really, the same book that said the earth was round thousands of years ago? The same one with an unparalleled record for proving prophecy? The same one that makes perfect sense IF YOU READ IT.
> let me guess, whats next, how the earth was created in 6 days and the derision that comes along with people WHO DO NOT READ IT?
> A day to god is like a thousand to us, yes thats in the bible, dinosaurs? Huh? Whats are you trying to say?


The bible says the Earth is a circle, not "round" (Isaiah 40:22), there has never been a single successfully fulfilled prophecy as described by the bible, the bible makes sense to bronze age societies in the cultural context. It does not make sense in a global 21st century world. If you lived your life according to the rules of the Bible today, you would be locked up in federal prison, so who is right, "God", or the US judicial system?



Someacdude said:


> Im willing to bet those who hold the bible inderision do so out of either selfishness or because they where hurt by one of gods so called messengers ie the electrric church or someone else supposedly following christian princepals . The bible is very clear that there are some who 'have a form of godly devotion but prove false to its power'
> 
> I find it very dissapointing when people make up their mind BEFORE reading BOTH SIDES. Of course the Bible has been dug through the mud by many many evil people over the centurys and made to look bad. But find a more accurate document that retells history warts and all.


"The fastest way to become an atheist is to read the Bible"


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

i love the bible its very hard to follow directions!!


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

I cant believe how much you got right and how much you got right, pretty interesting , your mind works 
Yes residing above the circle of the earth is the closest translation however the meaning is still clear.
My claim that evolution is a flat out lie, Darwin himself doubted it later in life .
Many of the things that would 'land you in jail' where the law of the land remember the mosaic law as written as a tutor leading up to the Christ an imperfectly implemented law implemented by imperfect men.
Sorry i dont multi quote well


Padawanbater2 said:


> Based on the fact that creationism/intelligent design isn't science, it's religion, and religion doesn't belong in any scientific or academic setting unless it's viewed in a historical context
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Flaming Pie (Jan 11, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Science is simply a tool we use to explain the world, it doesn't (and can't) "want" anything
> 
> Anyone who espouses creationism in a professional or academic setting *should be* destroyed, just like anyone who denied the holocaust


woah... 

did you even read what yo posted there?


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> I cant believe how much you got right and how much you got right, pretty interesting , your mind works
> Yes residing above the circle of the earth is the closest translation however the meaning is still clear.
> My claim that evolution is a flat out lie, Darwin himself doubted it later in life .
> Many of the things that would 'land you in jail' where the law of the land remember the mosaic law as written as a tutor leading up to the Christ an imperfectly implemented law implemented by imperfect men.
> Sorry i dont multi quote well


 Do you believe that all non Christians end up hellbound?


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## Flaming Pie (Jan 11, 2014)

I think the correct way to say it, is that all of us are hellbound unless we accept god into our hearts. 

Saying that non-Christians are hell bound isn't quite right. 

We are all sinners and only by opening our hearts and hands can we obtain salvation.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> I cant believe how much you got right and how much you got right, pretty interesting , your mind works
> Yes residing above the circle of the earth is the closest translation however the meaning is still clear.
> My claim that evolution is a flat out lie, Darwin himself doubted it later in life .
> Many of the things that would 'land you in jail' where the law of the land remember the mosaic law as written as a tutor leading up to the Christ an imperfectly implemented law implemented by imperfect men.
> Sorry i dont multi quote well


It might seem like splitting hairs, but there is a distinction between circle and round; a circle would describe something round existing on a two dimensional plane, the word "round" describes the same object existing on a three dimensional plane. Similarly, square/box

That's a pretty common claim made by opponents of the theory of evolution, like when a lot of those same people say the same things about atheists on their deathbeds (deathbed confession). The reality is that Darwin was an outspoken supporter of the theory until he died. Even if he wasn't, the theory of evolution was postulated as early as ancient Greece and independently discovered by Alfred Wallace around the same time as Darwin. The evidence holds up regardless of who believes it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Tendency_of_Species_to_form_Varieties;_and_on_the_Perpetuation_of_Varieties_and_Species_by_Natural_Means_of_Selection

How can the Bible be divinely inspired by God yet contradict most of our modern laws?


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 11, 2014)

Flaming Pie said:


> I think the correct way to say it, is that all of us are hellbound unless we accept god into our hearts.
> 
> Saying that non-Christians are hell bound isn't quite right.
> 
> We are all sinners and only by opening our hearts and hands can we obtain salvation.


That you are this flawed and broken being right out of the gate is not healthy, people afraid of the hell they had landscaped into their psyche is all. You can have open hearts, open minds, and be Christ-like but not because of fear. Fear is my true enemy and beyond it my personal power.


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> It might seem like splitting hairs, but there is a distinction between circle and round; a circle would describe something round existing on a two dimensional plane, the word "round" describes the same object existing on a three dimensional plane. Similarly, square/box
> 
> That's a pretty common claim made by opponents of the theory of evolution, like when a lot of those same people say the same things about atheists on their deathbeds (deathbed confession). The reality is that Darwin was an outspoken supporter of the theory until he died. Even if he wasn't, the theory of evolution was postulated as early as ancient Greece and independently discovered by Alfred Wallace around the same time as Darwin. The evidence holds up regardless of who believes it or not.
> 
> ...


I really like the way you can think, im to worn out tonight but i would like a chance to answer this tomorrow , im tired of thinking , plus its been a poopie day here for me, i need to juice more.


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## Flaming Pie (Jan 11, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> That you are this flawed and broken being right out of the gate is not healthy, people afraid of the hell they had landscaped into their psyche is all. You can have open hearts, open minds, and be Christ-like but not because of fear. Fear is my true enemy and beyond it my personal power.


it is only something negative if you look at it as negative. 


Fear does not cause change in a persons heart. Fear only causes change in their actions.


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> Do you believe that all non Christians end up hellbound?


Man i tired lol.

Hades , ghehena etc all translated from their original greek etc all point to the grave.
God has no intention of burning anyone, thats utter nonsense taught by false religion to keep people in line, its a lie and nothing but a lie.


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## tyler.durden (Jan 11, 2014)

Flaming Pie said:


> I think the correct way to say it, is that all of us are hellbound unless we accept god into our hearts.
> 
> Saying that non-Christians are hell bound isn't quite right.
> 
> We are all sinners and only by opening our hearts and hands can we obtain salvation.



[video=youtube;I4R4VMMTyGc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4R4VMMTyGc[/video]


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## Someacdude (Jan 11, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> Man i tired lol.
> 
> Hades , ghehena etc all translated from their original greek etc all point to the grave.
> God has no intention of burning anyone, thats utter nonsense taught by false religion to keep people in line, its a lie and nothing but a lie.



As far as nonchritstians i love them to death, im just some very blessed person to know what i know, i didnt always know or believe it. Jesus Christ came here for everyone, not just the jews, at that time they where Gods chosen people , but there where several prophecies that pointed to the year, linage , birth place and even the manger or whatever he was born in. He didnt hate anyone, he spoke to everyone regardless of their status in any way, he was such a perfect man that even Mohamed , Ghandi etc etc etc all close in the time stream regarded him as a prophet and more. 
I would love to talk more to all of you but i cant right now, my backs killing me and i said some mean things i have to apologize for to my daughter,,,,if only they where like Boys that way, sheesh


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 11, 2014)

Flaming Pie said:


> it is only something negative if you look at it as negative.
> Fear is hell
> 
> Fear does not cause change in a persons heart. Fear only causes change in their actions.


Fear is a cage, it inhibits growth, it is reductive and I see it as negative because it threatening. I do not see a divine nature in concepts of original sin, hell and heaven, and creation when the result is a sinner.


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## Flaming Pie (Jan 11, 2014)

Well put. Respect earned. 

I like people who can disagree without being nasty.


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

well count me out!!!! lolz jk


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## Flaming Pie (Jan 11, 2014)

I was saying that fear does not make you Christian.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 11, 2014)

Fear has a role that keeps people Christian. I am sorry. The real Hell is the fear of hell.


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## thump easy (Jan 11, 2014)

no the real heal is the dont kill people dont hurt people and dont steel from people and dont shoot people it will keep you out of prison is the kinda feeling i got from it.. lolz i got some stories but ill sit and look from the side lines.. pluss it make you feel better and helping people helps me repair.. also i usto feel bad after i hurt someone i often usto beet people and then feel bad not women, Men.. i usto feel horible after the fact.. but know i havent hurt anyone in a long time.. but 9 out of ten the dudes were asking me to hurt them...


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 11, 2014)

thump easy said:


> no the real heal is the dont kill people dont hurt people and dont steel from people and dont shoot people it will keep you out of prison is the kinda feeling i got from it.. lolz i got some stories but ill sit and look from the side lines.. pluss it make you feel better and helping people helps me repair.. also i usto feel bad after i hurt someone i often usto beet people and then feel bad not women Men.. i usto feel horible after the fact.. but know i havent hurt anyone in a long time.. but 9 out of ten the dudes were asking me to hurt them...


I know fear well and I know pain......I would rather endure the physical than the emotional torment.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 12, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Science is the exact opposite of organized religion by its definition, religion requires faith, science requires evidence
> 
> "


precisely



Someacdude said:


> Hating the Bible because what religion has done in its name is again about as smart as hating science for what its done, high fruitcose corn syrup is one of the biggest killers of all


Did I say anything about hating the book? No, I just enjoy it less than most any other book. 



Someacdude said:


> Old testament taken totally out of context, you i feel sorry for, or whoever did this to you.
> Sorry, but lifes to short to spend it talking to someone as hateful and unenlightened as you, nothing good would come from it. If you can show even 1/4th the respect i do in my posts maybe we can talk, otherwise i will have to place you on ignore, again not out of malice, but really, i wouldnt let you talk to me in person that way, im not going to let you talk to me on here that way, fair enough?
> 
> We can take apart each scripture one by one, just not here, this is about evolution





Someacdude said:


> As far as nonchritstians i love them to death,


for someone who "loves them to death" you seem to exude a lot of hate against people who disagree with your views. I mean, you just went off on strife and burgertime.....and for what?


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 12, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Based on the fact that creationism/intelligent design isn't science, it's religion, and religion doesn't belong in any scientific or academic setting unless it's viewed in a historical context
> 
> 
> 
> You used the word first, I was being consistent. Would you rather I said "anyone who espouses creationism/intelligent design should have their ideas tested using the scientific method"? They have, every one of them, hundreds of times... and yet they persist. In my opinion, these thoroughly disproved ideas stick around because religion is a heated subject and not many people other than Hitchens, Dawkins and that circle are strong enough in their beliefs to stand up against them. So when people like William Lane Craig or Ken Hamm get their ass handed to them in a debate, I think the word "destroy" is very applicable



So, you mean to say that you'd wish to destroy historical context? That sounds a little Back to the Future 

I quoted your original use of the term destroy, not sure how you inferred otherwise.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 12, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> So, you mean to say that you'd wish to destroy historical context? That sounds a little Back to the Future
> 
> I quoted your original use of the term destroy, not sure how you inferred otherwise.


I said religion doesn't belong in an academic setting unless it's being viewed in historical context. Religion is for history class, not science. Do you agree?

I quoted Someacdude, he originally used the word "destroy"


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 12, 2014)

Ahhh so i guess parts of the bible are taken out of context.... nah motha fucka! lol! You take them out of context when you pick them apart and assign your own meaning to them. The old testament is as part of the bible as any other part of the bible....why? Because it's in... the fuckin... BIBLE! lmfao!

_When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property._ (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

_Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ._ (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

_When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment._ (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

^^^Riiight, because i am tooootally taking those passages out of context. Wait, hold on... actually i got them right from the bible that is sitting next to me right now. Hold on... that is crazy, the bible condoning slavery?!?!?! This is outrage!!! You know what im gonna do! God damnit im gonna pretend that the old testament isn't part of the bible, and im going to ignore it straight up, actually im never going to read the old testament again because i just reeaaally don't like it and i don't agree with it, even if it is IN THE BIBLE!.

Meh... sounds about right.


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## joe macclennan (Jan 12, 2014)

how dare you talk to him in such a way! 

He's gonna put you on ignore now


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## Ringsixty (Jan 12, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Just wondering


No sure why, just crawled out from under a rock. "Boy that Sun is bright."


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 12, 2014)

Ringsixty said:


> No sure why, just crawled out from under a rock. "Boy that Sun is bright."



You're not sure why you reject the theory of evolution? 

Sorry I don't understand your post


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 12, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Ahhh so i guess parts of the bible are taken out of context.... nah motha fucka! lol! You take them out of context when you pick them apart and assign your own meaning to them. The old testament is as part of the bible as any other part of the bible....why? Because it's in... the fuckin... BIBLE! lmfao!
> 
> _When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property._ (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
> 
> ...


That is the most annoying part is the cherrypicking of the bible that people do. It is all or nothing but wives are no longer property, hell is not real, and all the wicked shit is conveniently missing or out of context. I want to see the revelation, the moment where the medication starts working for some people. At least some are Christ-like and he seems like a nice guy. The bible is all or nothing though...swallow the pill or don't. Science is not my religion but rational discourse and non-fiction I need in my life.


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## thump easy (Jan 12, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Ahhh so i guess parts of the bible are taken out of context.... nah motha fucka! lol! You take them out of context when you pick them apart and assign your own meaning to them. The old testament is as part of the bible as any other part of the bible....why? Because it's in... the fuckin... BIBLE! lmfao!
> 
> _When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property._ (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
> 
> ...


wow that means i can have more than one wife shit i wish i was young i dont think four women would have been enough???


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 12, 2014)

Bible question...are Jews cool still? How did the chosen people thing play out? I think that kind of flattery would get people to sign up.


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## thump easy (Jan 12, 2014)

jews are the chosen people gee.. there right in finances!!!!! once!!! they acept.. from what i know the end will come..


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## SaturdaySunday (Jan 12, 2014)

Burgertime... You are not going to find a resonable argument against evolution on this forum and you certainly won't find someone who can provide any defense for the bible, etc.

People reject the theory of evolution because they don't know any better. VERY few people who are adamently anti-atheism or anti-evolution have a real intellectual grasp of either concept. There have been studies that show that atheists actually know more about religion than the religious, while the religious know less about science or any information contradictiing relgious mythology.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 12, 2014)

SaturdaySunday said:


> Burgertime... You are not going to find a resonable argument against evolution on this forum and you certainly won't find someone who can provide any defense for the bible, etc.
> 
> People reject the theory of evolution because they don't know any better. VERY few people who are adamently anti-atheism or anti-evolution have a real intellectual grasp of either concept. There have been studies that show that atheists actually know more about religion than the religious, while the religious know less about science or any information contradictiing relgious mythology.


 I find it interesting, I want to hear the case people make. To me, this discourse is evolution, we are exploring it is what we do as humans. But, I see what you mean and agree. Maybe challenging belief systems that are obsolete and impossible to prove will inspire more change to occur for the better. It can be futile but maybe it is necessary.


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 12, 2014)

thump easy said:


> jews are the chosen people gee.. there right in finances!!!!! once!!! they acept.. from what i know the end will come..


Can you rephrase? I don't understand what you mean.


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Jan 12, 2014)

IMHO it is the denigration from either side that polarized the convo.
Why is it civility seems to be lacking when this subject (and a couple of others) come up?
It always seems to devolve into name calling and passive aggressive allusion isms.


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## thump easy (Jan 12, 2014)

hu?? dude im not ready for this battle give me a few month to read and ill look it up again..


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## burgertime2010 (Jan 12, 2014)

GreatwhiteNorth said:


> IMHO it is the denigration from either side that polarized the convo.
> Why is it civility seems to be lacking when this subject (and a couple of others) come up?
> It always seems to devolve into name calling and passive aggressive allusion isms.


Its' actually better than usual IMO.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 12, 2014)

The Bible could be an acronym for Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. I believe the Bible is more metaphorical in nature, meaning it uses a lot of symbology. The Bible shouldnt be interperated as the literal Word of God because allegedly ancient man wrote the Bible. I actually believe its possible that aliens wrote some of the Bible or inspired it in some way.

Whoever wrote the Bible was very smart for their day. What does this have to do with evolution though? I believe the Bible evolved too because history evolved even back then. The Bible doesnt describe the evolution of animals but it does contain the evolution of rituals and beliefs.

I have fulfilled some of the stories and prophecy from the New Testament. The BIBLE gave the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth, and now its a new AGE (the age of Aquarius) and its time to leave earth.

~PEACE~


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## redeyedfrog (Jan 12, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> [/B]This is fun - http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/


Chopras an asshole


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 12, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I said religion doesn't belong in an academic setting unless it's being viewed in historical context. Religion is for history class, not science. Do you agree?


I agree scientists have to keep their biases in check. I know the purpose that a method serves. On the other hand, I also understand why it is important to suspend the analytical mind when using imagination to amplify ideas.

On the spiritual side you have the idea of an 'unknowable'. Ok, so we know from the outset that some things we cannot comprehend with our limited cognition. If I were to paint a picture of that it would look like an endless amount of wonder being distributed by an inexhaustible source. The word joy fits in there somewhere, I think.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 12, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> I agree scientists have to keep their biases in check. I know the purpose that a method serves. On the other hand, I also understand why it is important to suspend the analytical mind when using imagination to amplify ideas.
> 
> On the spiritual side you have the idea of an 'unknowable'. Ok, so we know from the outset that some things we cannot comprehend with our limited cognition. If I were to paint a picture of that it would look like an endless amount of wonder being distributed by an inexhaustible source. The word joy fits in there somewhere, I think.



"Suspend the analytical mind when using imagination to amplify ideas" - what does that mean?


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## kpmarine (Jan 12, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> The Bible could be an acronym for Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. I believe the Bible is more metaphorical in nature, meaning it uses a lot of symbology. The Bible shouldnt be interperated as the literal Word of God because allegedly ancient man wrote the Bible. I actually believe its possible that aliens wrote some of the Bible or inspired it in some way.
> 
> Whoever wrote the Bible was very smart for their day. What does this have to do with evolution though? I believe the Bible evolved too because history evolved even back then. The Bible doesnt describe the evolution of animals but it does contain the evolution of rituals and beliefs.
> 
> ...


Symbolism, the suffix -logy means "study of".


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## cannabineer (Jan 12, 2014)

Wilksey said:


> I agree with pretty much all of that, however, I can find no logical conclusion that would allow for our species, ALONE, to develop the ability to understand and manipulate fire when we did.
> 
> It just doesn't make sense.
> 
> ...


To the colorized: since it happened, i think it definitively natural. We are a facet of nature, even in our most sapient, technical and contrived moments.

I really like the quote above about us being "the universe experiencing itself". it is my intuition that the join between science and spirit can be found in that direction. As eye observed, science isn't equipped to investigate what seems acausal. I wonder if there is a filtering action there, a begging of the question that narrows our window into certain aspects of the real.

Even so, i have great confidence that science, so long as it is allowed, unhindered by our prejudices, to seek the corners where the real hides, will eventually grow into the task, and what we now subsume into the catchall terms "spirit" and "soul" will be just as gloriously, integrally mundane as Newtonian mechanics, albeit nowhere near as simple.


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## cannabineer (Jan 12, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> Really, well im guessing its ok to the *theory* of evolution to well, just about anyone. Science is not a tool, its BIG BUSINESS, its also man kinds excuse for so many evil deeds.


It's important to distinguish between science and the mercenary empires built on technologies.


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## cannabineer (Jan 12, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> Bible question...are Jews cool still? How did the chosen people thing play out? I think that kind of flattery would get people to sign up.


From what I recall, the New Testament constitutes the opening of Judaism and its blessed status to all people. The tyranny of heredity was broken, along with the tyranny of all the codices (the Law). Judaism became a choice rather than a heritage, a moral and religious decision. I disagree with those exclusivist Christian sectarians who fail to claim, or seek to distinguish themselves, from the plural body of the saved.
Mind you, I am an agnostic atheist, but i am sensitive to the goodness that resides in the greater faith.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 13, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "Suspend the analytical mind when using imagination to amplify ideas" - what does that mean?


From my perspective it means to meditate and quiet my mind to a point that I can listen for solutions to problems. The mind is pretty tricky no matter the person or degree of education. To get to a new discovery it is very important to get passed the biases we have but that can't happen while actively analysing. It takes passivity to receive what could be a boon to you in the future.

I propose a test for you. Sit down in a quiet environment and listen to how many thoughts you have. It is ridiculously frustrating to realize that 'they' don't want to stop!

(I am going to edit this with caution: the killing that you read about in various scripture relates to 'killing' erroneous thought. Persons in scriptures are represented as something we can understand because we have the best vantage point being that we are people also. Thoughts aren't people but people's actions are the result of thought - or a lack of it. When a thought leads to someone being harmed is it the one to "kill", figuratively speaking 'put an end to that thought'.)

Holy crap, 'destroy' works there too


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## Someacdude (Jan 13, 2014)

cannabineer said:


> It's important to distinguish between science and the mercenary empires built on technologies.


But theory is still theory ,its unproven, i havent forgotten this thread ive still been very busy , lots of issues here health wise .
I really would like to write at length about this, after decades of research all facts point to intelligent design , things are just to well made and complicated to have just happened. 

I know for a fact if you assembled all the materials to build a house , pvc, fittings, glue, nails, lumber roofing etc and exploded them , no matter how many times it was done you would never make a house. Consider the human eye and its ability to focus faster and more accurate than any camera, man cant even properly fix flawed vision and even with surgery they reverse after awhile. 
Things arent just randomly made , someone or something made them.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 13, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> To get to a new discovery it is very important to get passed the biases we have but that can't happen while actively analysing. It takes passivity to receive what could be a boon to you in the future.


Do you think it was _passivity _that came up with vaccinations, the space shuttle, something as complicated as an aircraft carrier, etc? 

Do you accept the theory of evolution for the explanation of the diversity of life on Earth today?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> But theory is still theory ,its unproven


You do know that the theory of evolution is in the same exact category as the theory of gravity, or the theory of relativity? 

You do know that a scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation. Scientists create scientific theories from hypotheses that have been corroborated through the scientific method, then gather evidence to test their accuracy.

The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics)...One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed.

Do you even science bro?


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## thump easy (Jan 13, 2014)

i thier any scientif data of mmj evolution???


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> (I am going to edit this with caution: the killing that you read about in various scripture relates to 'killing' erroneous thought. Persons in scriptures are represented as something we can understand because we have the best vantage point being that we are people also. Thoughts aren't people but people's actions are the result of thought - or a lack of it. When a thought leads to someone being harmed is it the one to "kill", figuratively speaking 'put an end to that thought'.)


That's the funny thing about the mind, we can create our own meaning out of everything. Even if the scripture is literally saying the word kill, as in to take a life... we can just say to ourselves, "nah, i don't like the sound of that, i'm gonna pretend it means killing thought, yeah... that sounds way better!" "Holy shit! That means i can make the scripture into pretty much anything i want! The possibilities!!!"


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)

thump easy said:


> i thier any scientif data of mmj evolution???


Take a read at this my man, pretty cool stuff.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/content/human-and-cannabis-coevolution


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## thump easy (Jan 13, 2014)

thankx^^^^


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## Someacdude (Jan 13, 2014)

Oh i love science , it points to a creator, science cannot make life, can barely understand how we work, assumptions arent facts, theory isnt facts. Science changes every month, how many PROVEN fact are unproven or at least have science scratching its head wondering why these things allude them?


Zaehet Strife said:


> You do know that the theory of evolution is in the same exact category as the theory of gravity, or the theory of relativity?
> 
> *You do know that a scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation. Scientists create scientific theories from hypotheses that have been corroborated through the scientific method, then gather evidence to test their accuracy.*
> This i really dont get, it sounds a bit wordy, can you break it down and give me an example regarding creation?
> ...


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## Heisenberg (Jan 13, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> But theory is still theory ,its unproven, i havent forgotten this thread ive still been very busy , lots of issues here health wise .
> I really would like to write at length about this, after decades of research all facts point to intelligent design , things are just to well made and complicated to have just happened.


Research involves more than a simple lack of imagination. Show me one scientific paper which says that because we can't understand how something became so apparently sophisticated, God must have done it. There are none. What you think of as science is simply your limited understanding of it. If you feel this way that is one thing, but to ascribe such an asinine view to science is demonstrably wrong. 



> I know for a fact if you assembled all the materials to build a house , pvc, fittings, glue, nails, lumber roofing etc and exploded them , no matter how many times it was done you would never make a house.


False analogy. Evolution is not random, it operates under the filter of natural selection. Something that is selected can not be random. How can you reject a theory you do not fully grasp?




> Consider the human eye and its ability to focus faster and more accurate than any camera, man cant even properly fix flawed vision and even with surgery they reverse after awhile.
> Things arent just randomly made , someone or something made them.


They aren't randomly made, science agrees. Those features were selected for by millions of years of environmental pressures. Man's inability to make imperfect vision perfect says nothing about the theory of evolution. I'm not sure why you think that point is relevant. 

What you are showing us is the different ways your brain has made excuses and mitigated scientific evidence in order to justify the continued belief that you are special. You reject evolution because you do not understand it beyond seeing it as a threat, and so your thoughts center around marginalizing that threat rather than grasping the theory.



> Oh i love science , it points to a creator, science cannot make life, can barely understand how we work, assumptions arent facts, theory isnt facts. Science changes every month, how many PROVEN fact are unproven or at least have science scratching its head wondering why these things allude them?


So you think science should stagnate and not consider new evidence? You prefer something that claims to have gotten everything right on the first shot, and doesn't refine and adjust? And then despite these flaws you find in science, you think science still agrees with you and posits a creator? You are either not very good at communicating, or not very good at consistent thinking.


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## Kanaplya (Jan 13, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> But theory is still theory ,its unproven, i havent forgotten this thread ive still been very busy , lots of issues here health wise .
> I really would like to write at length about this, after decades of research all facts point to intelligent design , things are just to well made and complicated to have just happened.
> 
> I know for a fact if you assembled all the materials to build a house , pvc, fittings, glue, nails, lumber roofing etc and exploded them , no matter how many times it was done you would never make a house. Consider the human eye and its ability to focus faster and more accurate than any camera, man cant even properly fix flawed vision and even with surgery they reverse after awhile.
> Things arent just randomly made , someone or something made them.


What 'facts' point to intelligent design? Human eye? There are animals with much better and more complicated sight, hearing, smell, etc... maybe we should worship them. You gotta stop just making crap up to make your lack of a point. Btw, gravity is just a theory too - maybe we should come up with a more biblical explanation for that too.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)




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## Kanaplya (Jan 13, 2014)

Also, there is this misconception that human neurological processes are much faster and more efficient than any computer. That is simply bullshit and has no basis in science. The complexity of a human body is great but on it is by no means magic and are not special or different than anything else in the universe.


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## cannabineer (Jan 13, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> But theory is still theory ,its unproven, i havent forgotten this thread ive still been very busy , lots of issues here health wise .
> I really would like to write at length about this, after decades of research all facts point to intelligent design , things are just to well made and complicated to have just happened.
> 
> I know for a fact if you assembled all the materials to build a house , pvc, fittings, glue, nails, lumber roofing etc and exploded them , no matter how many times it was done you would never make a house. Consider the human eye and its ability to focus faster and more accurate than any camera, man cant even properly fix flawed vision and even with surgery they reverse after awhile.
> Things arent just randomly made , someone or something made them.


The thing that most nonscientists either don't or won't understand about the term "theory" is that it means "as close to proven as we can get". Heck; the existence of the sun, yo you, of me is unproven if you dice the onion finely enough.

I disagree with you about intelligent design. Mind you it isn't disproven, but I see room for the basic premise: we have a very narrow view of things, and are prone to impose anthropomorphism upon our perceptions and ideas of them. I see the concept of intelligent design as very vulnerable to just this sort of thinking: to the man holding a hammer, everything is rated by its degree of nailness.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 13, 2014)

kpmarine said:


> Symbolism, the suffix -logy means "study of".


I guess youre right. Thanks for that.

Where have you been hiding Kpmarine? I havent seen you on the S,S&P forums for a long time.

How are you doing Kpmarine?

~PEACE~


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 13, 2014)

Science is the "religion" of the Atheists.

And there is nothing wrong with that, I wish I knew EVERYTHING about science. Science should be the "religion" of all.

~PEACE~


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 13, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Science is the "religion" of the Atheists.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with that, I wish I knew EVERYTHING about science. Science should be the "religion" of all.
> 
> ~PEACE~


Science is not a religion, look up the definitions

Making this claim is an attempt to put the two on equal ground, when science requires evidence and religion requires faith - the exact opposite of evidence


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)

Heisenberg said:


> Research involves more than a simple lack of imagination. Show me one scientific paper which says that because we can't understand how something became so apparently sophisticated, God must have done it. There are none. What you think of as science is simply your limited understanding of it. If you feel this way that is one thing, but to ascribe such an asinine view to science is demonstrably wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great reply man.


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## thump easy (Jan 13, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;kEK6WtHxNfw]http://youtu.be/kEK6WtHxNfw[/video]


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## thump easy (Jan 13, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;Rib1FRpBzBI]http://youtu.be/Rib1FRpBzBI[/video]


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 13, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Do you think it was _passivity _that came up with vaccinations, the space shuttle, something as complicated as an aircraft carrier, etc?
> 
> Do you accept the theory of evolution for the explanation of the diversity of life on Earth today?


That is like asking if a surgeon who happens to be spiritual should suspend his logic while operating. I had a bit of a laugh there, thanks.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 13, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> That's the funny thing about the mind, we can create our own meaning out of everything. Even if the scripture is literally saying the word kill, as in to take a life... we can just say to ourselves, "nah, i don't like the sound of that, i'm gonna pretend it means killing thought, yeah... that sounds way better!" "Holy shit! That means i can make the scripture into pretty much anything i want! The possibilities!!!"


10 things are written 'in stone'. The rest is still being interpreted. When you read something in your particular area of scientific study, do you understand it the way someone like Hawking (etc) would? So does that invalidate your interpretation? Should you laugh at yourself?


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 13, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Science is not a religion, look up the definitions
> 
> Making this claim is an attempt to put the two on equal ground, when science requires evidence and religion requires faith - the exact opposite of evidence


What I should have said is this:

Science is the "disipline" of Atheists.

And thats true for a lot of Atheists. But Im sure some Atheists would say that that their disipline is science.

EDIT- In My opinion, science is great. I highly regard and esteem science. Without science we would still be living in the stone age. But...

Religion is the disipline of some Theists; and science is the disipline of some Atheists. Or am I wrong about this? I would hope that everyone has an appreciation for science because science has most of the truth.

~PEACE~


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## Guccizillaa (Jan 13, 2014)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Just wondering


Because the awesome thing about freedom of choice, is we have the freedom to choose.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> 10 things are written 'in stone'. The rest is still being interpreted. When you read something in your particular area of scientific study, do you understand it the way someone like Hawking (etc) would? So does that invalidate your interpretation? Should you laugh at yourself?


To take in information as it is presented to me with a logical standpoint, is what i like to do most. The physics behind the way the planets move, rotate, and revolve around each other... those for example, are things that i cannot subjectively interpret. Those are ideas that are mathematically set in stone, in which no mathematical idea since it's discovery has ever been able to disprove the logic behind astrophysics.

Scripture, by far, is something completely different. For which anyone, anywhere, can present their own personal meaning to it, and can change it from what it is (a scripture to be fallowed objectively no matter what) into exactly whatever it is that they want it to be.

You cannot do that with the mathematical aspects of trajectory with astrophysics... 

Which makes subjective scripture interpretation fucking ridiculous, because anyone, anywhere, at any time, can make up any bull shit scenario they want, and lie to themselves and make it a truth to themselves.

You cannot do that with astrophysics, if you do, people will call you a dumbass... kinda like how i am calling people who try to reinterpret the bible as subjective hearsay, fucking silly willy as shit! 

No offense.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)

thump easy said:


> [video=youtube_share;Rib1FRpBzBI]http://youtu.be/Rib1FRpBzBI[/video]

























&#8220;It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.&#8221;


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## thump easy (Jan 13, 2014)

hehehehe tic for tac lolz im amused i usto be anti god everthing got the horns on my head to prove it.. the only way to find out is at the end of our leash i guess??


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 13, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> To take in information as it is presented to me with a logical standpoint, is what i like to do most. The physics behind the way the planets move, rotate, and revolve around each other... those for example, are things that i cannot subjectively interpret. Those are ideas that are mathematically set in stone, in which no mathematical idea since it's discovery has ever been able to disprove the logic behind astrophysics.
> 
> Scripture, by far, is something completely different. For which anyone, anywhere, can present their own personal meaning to it, and can change it from what it is (a scripture to be fallowed objectively no matter what) into exactly whatever it is that they want it to be.
> 
> ...


Lack of due diligence makes for difficult conversations, no offence either. What is your reference point for interpretation? What are you saying is 'word' when it comes to the word?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> Lack of due diligence makes for difficult conversations, no offence either. What is your reference point for interpretation? What are you saying is 'word' when it comes to the word?




*Thou shalt have no other gods before me.* 
*Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.* Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 
*Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;* for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 
*Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.* Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 
*Honour thy father and thy mother:* that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. 
*Thou shalt not kill.* 
*Thou shalt not commit adultery.* 
*Thou shalt not steal.* 
*Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.* 
*Thou shalt not covet* thy neighbour&#8217;s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour&#8217;s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour&#8217;s.


You can interpret those 10 commandments any way you damn well please, you can make them into anything you want... just like most scriptures you read in the old testament about rape, slavery, mass killings... 

You can take what you don't like and make it into whatever you want, you can pretend that the rape and killings of women and children is just a metaphor for the killing of their thoughts if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that who wrote the bible intended for you to take it at face value, not for each individual on the planet to interpret them as they so choose... if they wanted it that way they would have said fuck it and let everyone just write their own damn bible. No, the ten commandments are not meant for you to interpret subjectively, they are rules to fallow, unchangeable, just like the scriptures. And when you change it into what you want rather than what it is, not only do you make a mockery of the bible, you make a mockery of yourself. 

You cannot interpret astrophysics, just like you cannot interpret the ten commandments if you so choose to believe in them... because no matter what i believe the laws of physics dictate the mathematics that go into the measurements of how the planets, stars and galaxies move in this universe.

Just as the ten commandments and the scriptures determine how you should live your life and how to act if you so choose to believe in such things. 


I can pretend that i can make up my own mathematics on how the planets move, and you can pretend that you can make up your own interpretation of the bible... but then we would be doing exactly the same thing;

Making shit up so it fits into our personal wants, needs and desires of what how we wish things are, rather than how things really are.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 13, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> *Thou shalt have no other gods before me.*
> *Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.* Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
> *Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;* for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
> *Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.* Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy  cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
> ...



Well all of that text looks like something, but at the end of the day you're going on about something inconsequential. I argued against using imagination in the context of experimentation already. Read a bit, Strife. Old argument.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)

thump easy said:


> hehehehe tic for tac lolz im amused i usto be anti god everthing got the horns on my head to prove it.. the only way to find out is at the end of our leash i guess??


I am not anti god, i think the idea of gods existing has the same probability of the idea of gods not existing. I love the idea of god/gods existing, it is a much more comfortable idea than that of god/gods not existing, yet the truth is... when i am honest with myself, is that i do not know whether or not god/gods do or do not exist.

There is no basis, not even the "spiritual" or "miracle" experiences i have been through or witnessed, because the possibility will always exist that what i experienced or witnessed may have been something completely different, it may have been wrong, it may have not been what it seemed to be... so doubt will always be permissible in such situations, therefor i cannot make a logical conclusion about such instances.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 13, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> Well all of that text looks like something, but at the end of the day you're going on about something inconsequential. I argued against using imagination in the context of experimentation already. Read a bit, Strife. Old argument.


You must not have read what i had to say... else i would have expected a better response to the points i made.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 13, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> You must not have read what i had to say... else i would have expected a better response to the points i made.


You mean like me saying in a post to you a page or so back '10 things are carved in stone'? You quoted the 10 things that I was referring to. Did you provide context? From what I read you told me how I couldn't interpret astrophysics that same way. There are fundamental laws in physics, and a ton of theory. Looks the same on the other side of the fence, man.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 13, 2014)

Is there anyone on this forum who believes they have a firm grasp on the theory of evolution and still rejects it?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 14, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> You mean like me saying in a post to you a page or so back '10 things are carved in stone'? You quoted the 10 things that I was referring to. Did you provide context? From what I read you told me how I couldn't interpret astrophysics that same way. There are fundamental laws in physics, and a ton of theory. Looks the same on the other side of the fence, man.


Ok lets make this simple. 

You said that you interpret the bible's mass killings of children, women, rape and slavery as merely a "thought killing interpretation" which to me, sounds like a pretty fucking HUGE scape goat on your part. Which is what i was trying to argue. Regardless, i have to acknowledge the OP's question.

Do you or do you not understand evolution, can grasp the geological and fossil evidence of this scientific theory... yet still find it more probable that creationism is a more logical standpoint than evolution. If so, we would all like to know why.


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## thump easy (Jan 14, 2014)

well we found the missing links


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 14, 2014)

The "missing link" idea has always been really strange to me.. part of me thinks these guys must be just fucking around.. 1 - 2, you find 1.5, now there's two "gaps" between 1 and 2, instead of just one.. the "missing link" is essentially an unanswerable question posed by people who don't understand the theory. Another way to put it is like having a fork and a spoon, then discovering a "spork" and asking "well what's in between the fork and the spork?".. and on and on.. The "gaps" aren't ever fully acknowledged as transitional species or there's a constant request for more, more, MORE! No matter how many are discovered there will always be more and more "gaps"..


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 14, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> That is like asking if a surgeon who happens to be spiritual should suspend his logic while operating. I had a bit of a laugh there, thanks.


What are you saying, you should suspend your beliefs in favor of unsubstantiated claims because they're "passive" in their explanations?


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 14, 2014)

Strife: no 

Pada: no


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

Wilksey said:


> I agree with pretty much all of that, however, I can find no logical conclusion that would allow for our species, ALONE, to develop the ability to understand and manipulate fire when we did.
> 
> It just doesn't make sense.
> 
> ...


what makes you think fire is not "natural", and how do you know sapiens are the only ones who manipulated it? Furthermore, there can only be a few if not a solitary apex predator.. This one happened to have hands. Dolphins or whales can't do fire.


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> And your argument is ,,,,nothing? Just a vague rebuttal of someone elses view, kinda like,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,evolution?
> I didnt come up with the missing link, and if that fairy tale has been proven wrong what did they come up with next? The big bang.
> 
> Lets do an experiment.
> ...


it wasn't "proven wrong", it isn't how evolution works. Religion and our education system has done us a grave disservice. The huge majority of skeptics have not the faintest clue of what evolution is, let alone the origin of the universe. Your comparisons make no sense and illustrate nothing. I am as abrupt as I am because I find that precious few skeptics will ever take the time to learn what it evolution really is.


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> This is very convoluted , can you try and make it simpler for me because i have no idea what you mean.
> Science predates the Bible? Faith? What is science / evolution except faith? Yes science IS a religion.
> The bible full of myth? Really, the same book that said the earth was round thousands of years ago? The same one with an unparalleled record for proving prophecy? The same one that makes perfect sense IF YOU READ IT.
> let me guess, whats next, how the earth was created in 6 days and the derision that comes along with people WHO DO NOT READ IT?
> ...


untill I changed, my major was theology. I have read and studied "one" of the bibles, now to which text are you refering? And which books? The ones that congesses of MEN chose to include? Religion is not science, it is self correcting. religion is not


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## Wilksey (Jan 14, 2014)

canndo said:


> what makes you think fire is not "natural", and how do you know sapiens are the only ones who manipulated it? Furthermore, there can only be a few if not a solitary apex predator.. This one happened to have hands. Dolphins or whales can't do fire.


If you can share an example of another species manipulating fire, I'd be glad to read about it, however, I don't believe you'll find one. 

I don't believe the intelligence that mastered fire is natural simply due to the exclusive nature of this kind of intelligence. There's plenty of other species with the dexterity and appendages needed to create and manage fire, and yet ours is the ONLY one with this ability....to my knowledge, at least. 

If evolution is the only factor that drives the composition of a species, than why are we alone in both, our intellectual development and our efficient cooling system, compared with the rest of the animal kingdom? Why is there such a disparity between us, and the rest of our primate kin? This huge gap exists nowhere else in the animal kingdom, and that's why I don't believe it's simply a matter of "natural" evolution.

If it's "natural", we'd see it replicated elsewhere in the animal kingdom. But we don't.

/shrug


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

Wilksey said:


> If you can share an example of another species manipulating fire, I'd be glad to read about it, however, I don't believe you'll find one.
> 
> I don't believe the intelligence that mastered fire is natural simply due to the exclusive nature of this kind of intelligence. There's plenty of other species with the dexterity and appendages needed to create and manage fire, and yet ours is the ONLY one with this ability....to my knowledge, at least.
> 
> ...



Homo Erectus - possibly 400,000 years ago was the first to manipulate fire. Why do you presume that ours is the only kind of intelligence that is able to deal with the survival of a species? As I said, it takes a particular combination of events and situations. Of course dolphins and whales will never manipulate fire, they may well be more intelligent than we are. It seems that man in his arrogance believes that the "proof" of intelligence is the ability to build things - not necessarily so.

Efficent cooling system? How so? every animal has something "better" than we. Why are dogs noses so sensitive and ours are not? We gave up plenty for our brains and some say it was the control of fire that gave us the ability to enlarge our brains in the first place. 

There is very little disparity between our primate kin and ourselves - we both have a propensity to language, we care for our young for long periods of time, we teach rather than rely on instinct alone, and we both inpart knowlege across generations. The difference is only a matter of degree. Several apes or chimps who have been taught amislan have formed novel words, one at least has tought her children signing. For every item you attempt to claim as unique to man, the manipulaton of fire, and writing are the only two that make us different. Furthermore, your argument is not one against evolution.


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> I cant believe how much you got right and how much you got right, pretty interesting , your mind works
> Yes residing above the circle of the earth is the closest translation however the meaning is still clear.
> My claim that evolution is a flat out lie,* Darwin himself doubted it later in life *.
> Many of the things that would 'land you in jail' where the law of the land remember the mosaic law as written as a tutor leading up to the Christ an imperfectly implemented law implemented by imperfect men.
> Sorry i dont multi quote well



Myth, and myth alone. Darwin never expressed such dobut, nor did he recant on his death bed. The biggest problem I have with creationists is their need to lie (I am not saying that you are doing so, but your using this example as some sort of "proof" against evolution - and your assigning an entire scientific study, to a single human, is demonstration that someone in the community of creationists is intentionaly propagating a lie). If creationism is indeed the way of things and a mandate directly from God, then why do they need to lie?


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

burgertime2010 said:


> That is the most annoying part is the cherrypicking of the bible that people do. It is all or nothing but wives are no longer property, hell is not real, and all the wicked shit is conveniently missing or out of context. I want to see the revelation, the moment where the medication starts working for some people. At least some are Christ-like and he seems like a nice guy. The bible is all or nothing though...swallow the pill or don't. Science is not my religion but rational discourse and non-fiction I need in my life.



Try the Jeffersonian Bible, you might like it. it strips out all miracles, and emphasises Jesus's WORDS and admonitions. It is a smart read actually.


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

Someacdude said:


> Oh i love science , it points to a creator, science cannot make life, can barely understand how we work, assumptions arent facts, theory isnt facts. Science changes every month, how many PROVEN fact are unproven or at least have science scratching its head wondering why these things allude them?



WE have been at it for only about 300 years, and have gotten damn far. We can see out to the edge of the universe, we can see the beginnings of the big bang, we are unraveling DNA, and the human mind itself. Give us a little more time to figure out what took billions of years to come into being. Assumptions are not scientific theories. Science does not change "every month" but what it does do is self correct. Now, as far as Christianity is concerned, it has changed as well, does that disprove God or the Bible? do you really need concrete facts ONCE? Hell even the bible has two different stories of the creation of man. (or woman)


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> 10 things are written 'in stone'. The rest is still being interpreted. When you read something in your particular area of scientific study, do you understand it the way someone like Hawking (etc) would? So does that invalidate your interpretation? Should you laugh at yourself?


What 10 things are those?


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

It is very simple really. We have the evidence of our eyes and understanding, and we have a very old book made up of stories gleaned from even earlier times. Now, Unless two things can be explained within the context of the bible - ENTIRELY - the creation of coal and oil, and the creation of the hawaiian Islands, Then there is a critical disparity. The only logical conclusion is either that the Bible is wrong or We have a God who is purposefully misrepresenting himself through his works.

The final result is that either the book is NOT written or inspired by God or that God is falible, illogical, and not worth any effort on the part of humans.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 14, 2014)

canndo said:


> What 10 things are those?


Ten Commandments are 'in stone'. They resonate because they are in the bones, so to speak.


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> Ten Commandments are 'in stone'. They resonate because they are in the bones, so to speak.


To my recollection there are actually 4 sets of "ten commandments", which sort of takes the edge off that "written in stone" thingy. Which is why I asked. Is the commandment - "thou shalt not kill?" or is it " thou shalt not murder" - two entirely different things. - as example.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 14, 2014)

canndo said:


> To my recollection there are actually 4 sets of "ten commandments", which sort of takes the edge off that "written in stone" thingy. Which is why I asked. Is the commandment - "thou shalt not kill?" or is it " thou shalt not murder" - two entirely different things. - as example.


Not looking for an edge, I think that is the "wedgy" between both parties. I'd prefer not to do either of the two ways you described that. Are there 4 ways, then?

You also assume I meant that in the western christian sense which is not at all valid.


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## Finshaggy (Jan 14, 2014)

"Where's the word Bible in the Bible? And do you have a problem with that?" - Polight

Have you heard of the new caucus mountain skull? It takes a few links out of the evolutionary chain.


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## DMTER (Jan 14, 2014)

SOOOOO many people here are mixing up Abiogenesis with with Evolutionary theory...take some time and learn


Minds are like parachutes....

They work better when they are open


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> Not looking for an edge, I think that is the "wedgy" between both parties. I'd prefer not to do either of the two ways you described that. Are there 4 ways, then?
> 
> You also assume I meant that in the western christian sense which is not at all valid.




The commandments are not an issue of preference. Many claim that they are the most concrete section of the bible, those things which cannot be interpreted and yet i demonstrated that they were indeed interpreted to rather monumental effect. The command not to kill means not killing anything and not killing on behalf of the state or even God himself, yet God commands that people be killed in the old testament, furthermore He himself kills, violating his own commandments. "thou shalt not murder" has indications that there are allowable forms and reasons for killing - like for food, or for self protection, or for punishment. Again, my point is that even these "commandments" are subject to interpetation and of course lend themselves to being bent. Laura Slesenger claimed that the ten commandments were not ten suggestions. She was wrong, that is exactly what they are. Beyond even that are the punishments for violation of those commandments, what shall they be and who decides? Many a commandment can be violated during reparation for a violated commandment. What exactly is covetousness? Isn't our modern society and the free enterprise system based on that very clause? must we not covet what we see a snuggy before we go out and purchase one? Should we covet the woman who hovers about a brand new car - the promise of getting what one desires in the way of sex wth the purchase of that car?

No, the 10 commandments, when examined, is a quagmire, especially for those who most profess to abide by them. Some of them are decent rules for society, as those who "covet" space in the courthouse for those writ commandments, claim. Some have nothing to do with society in the natural sense. "thou shalt not take the lord thy God in vain". Adherence to this commandment is rather simple but either way, it contributes nothing to a moral and resonable society.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 14, 2014)

DMTER said:


> SOOOOO many people here are mixing up Abiogenesis with with Evolutionary theory...take some time and learn
> 
> 
> Minds are like parachutes....
> ...



The odds of that happening are astronomical ,


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 14, 2014)

canndo said:


> The commandments are not an issue of preference. Many claim that they are the most concrete section of the bible, those things which cannot be interpreted and yet i demonstrated that they were indeed interpreted to rather monumental effect. The command not to kill means not killing anything and not killing on behalf of the state or even God himself, yet God commands that people be killed in the old testament, furthermore He himself kills, violating his own commandments. "thou shalt not murder" has indications that there are allowable forms and reasons for killing - like for food, or for self protection, or for punishment. Again, my point is that even these "commandments" are subject to interpetation and of course lend themselves to being bent. Laura Slesenger claimed that the ten commandments were not ten suggestions. She was wrong, that is exactly what they are. Beyond even that are the punishments for violation of those commandments, what shall they be and who decides? Many a commandment can be violated during reparation for a violated commandment. What exactly is covetousness? Isn't our modern society and the free enterprise system based on that very clause? must we not covet what we see a snuggy before we go out and purchase one? Should we covet the woman who hovers about a brand new car - the promise of getting what one desires in the way of sex wth the purchase of that car?
> 
> No, the 10 commandments, when examined, is a quagmire, especially for those who most profess to abide by them. Some of them are decent rules for society, as those who "covet" space in the courthouse for those writ commandments, claim. Some have nothing to do with society in the natural sense. "thou shalt not take the lord thy God in vain". Adherence to this commandment is rather simple but either way, it contributes nothing to a moral and resonable society.


This is an exoteric perspective, not where I am coming from. No biggie, just not where I am coming from. I've pointed that out recently.


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## canndo (Jan 14, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> This is an exoteric perspective, not where I am coming from. No biggie, just not where I am coming from. I've pointed that out recently.



I figured that, I was as much talking over your shoulder as anything else. I wasn't quite sure though.


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