# How do I get to heaven? Answers to your questions on eternal life.



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 18, 2013)

I have been moved by God to begin a thread on the way to heaven, 
I pray that many people will be saved from hell by viewing this thread. 
This is not a place to slander Christianity. Please keep it clean.

Jesus is the only way in which we can enter into the gates of heaven. 
His sacrifice enables us to be cleansed from our many sins,
being made righteous through Him.

We must ask Jesus aloud to be our savior.

*"Jesus, please save me. In Jesus name amen."*

Get baptized, and turn from your sin.

Know you are going to heaven by doing these three simple things.

Read the bible to find strength and knowledge in God and His path for your life.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;ci9KI4rSXw4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9KI4rSXw4[/video]


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## Heisenberg (Jan 18, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Jesus is the only way in which we can enter into the gates of heaven.
> 
> We must ask Jesus aloud to be our savior.


For those interested in alternatives.

[video=youtube;qixXRkCNrtE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qixXRkCNrtE[/video]


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 18, 2013)

Im not one to disrespect a persons view or belief in religion,but here we go again with yet another individual making the same assertion that has been made time after time again.You can say what you want to of course,but dont expect ME to believe as you do,because I simply do not and will not.I will save myself and have the ability to do so,the best part is you cannot prove me wrong with anything you have to say or with anything that you can do.peace


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## budster1340 (Jan 18, 2013)

Getting a good buzz and listening to my system is close enough to heaven for me right now!


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## mindphuk (Jan 18, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> This is not a place to slander Christianity. Please keep it clean.


I have a hard time believing that Xianity can be 'slandered.' Slander is about making false statements about something, the truth is a defense against slander. The negative things about Xianity all come from Xians and the bible itself. The religion doesn't need me to pile on, it does a good job of discrediting itself. The best antidote to the Xian religion is to read the bible for yourself.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 18, 2013)

...wouldn't it seem to anyone here that all things, religion, food, situations (etc), are neutral and our interpretations of them paint them as 'x' thing? Isn't the world just a mirror of sorts? This makes all the stuff 'just stuff', while what it seems to be goes in accordance with our own state of mind? A clear example of this is when a person is either angry, in love, indifferent (etc), their world becomes painted as such for a while. Imagine that, times every interaction you have in a day. So, who's really got a grasp on reality enough to make claims against this or that?


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## tyler.durden (Jan 18, 2013)

Alright! Finally some action, I've been a bit bored here for the last couple weeks. Keep it going...


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## ProfessorPotSnob (Jan 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;vcWTTs8QVRc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcWTTs8QVRc[/video]


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;luy3-UiiRDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luy3-UiiRDU[/video]


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## cheechako (Jan 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;NPIWkzUaDvQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPIWkzUaDvQ[/video]


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## tyler.durden (Jan 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;9Q7Vr3yQYWQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q7Vr3yQYWQ[/video]


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## cheechako (Jan 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;JxPj3GAYYZ0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxPj3GAYYZ0[/video]


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## cheechako (Jan 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;5zNdMc6wGtU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zNdMc6wGtU[/video]


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## oldesthippy (Jan 19, 2013)

sure love that song


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 19, 2013)

[video=youtube;4G7K013dB2s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G7K013dB2s[/video]


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## ginjawarrior (Jan 19, 2013)

[youtube]4T8PRJtLzBM[/youtube]


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## oldtimer54 (Jan 19, 2013)

Oldgrowth420..........I dont know what I believe in anymore. As a kid I attendeda church and was taught the way to heaven was thru jesus christ......but in lieu of the recent events like Sandy Hook.......I just dont see a good and just god allowing things like this to happen. This world is full of evil terrible people that do not deserve to live..........but yet god saw fit to allow the murder of all those children...........I just dont understand


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

God allows free will and a free world for people to do as they please oldtimer54. God wants people to choose to do right, and gives us what we need to do good if we ask Him. Satan is still at work and has a lot of control in this world, so don't be surprised when bad things happen. We aren't just robots for God, we have the ability to choose what we do. This is why people make bad choices. I pray that God will guide us all to make the right and good choices in Jesus name amen


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

*Don't allow evil to change the way you think about Jesus. Jesus is and always will be our God and our Savior. Just cry out Jesus save me and feel God come to you.*


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## rooky1985 (Jan 19, 2013)

I have studied world religions and found that they are just a derrivative of the oldest studied, hinduism. Religion evolves just as everything else does, please don't take this wrong because religion is a good tool. IMO religion was derived to help govern societies by instilling a higher power or law for the masses. I truely enjoy studying religion and what it can bring but I can not take Heaven as a litteral place, doing good only helps your legacy which is what truely lives on. So with that said I'm trying to smoke myself to heaven, I'm pretty hi right now and I will let you all know if I make it but I feel like I'm getting close.


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## cannabineer (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *Don't allow evil to change the way you think about Jesus. Jesus is and always will be our God and our Savior. Just cry out Jesus save me and feel God come to you.*


Let's say i follow procedure and the red portion doesn't happen. Plan B? Diagnostics? cn


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> Let's say i follow procedure and the red portion doesn't happen. Plan B? Diagnostics? cn


Some people aren't spiritually sensitive. Every time i say Maranatha, which means come Lord Jesus in Aramaic i feel this spiritual swoosh and then i can feel God helping me and my spirit. If you don't feel anything, another thing i notice is i can go and look at my eyes in the mirror, then i can spend about a half hour reading John in the new testament in the bible (there are a lot of bibles online) And i can see this beauty shining through my eyes as my spirit is cleansed and beautified by the word of God. Especially the whites of my eyes. Also try saying "I confess, repent, and ask forgiveness for all of my sins in Jesus name amen" That always makes me feel better and helps my spirit to flow right. Make sure it's from the heart.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

rooky1985 said:


> I have studied world religions and found that they are just a derrivative of the oldest studied, hinduism. Religion evolves just as everything else does, please don't take this wrong because religion is a good tool. IMO religion was derived to help govern societies by instilling a higher power or law for the masses. I truely enjoy studying religion and what it can bring but I can not take Heaven as a litteral place, doing good only helps your legacy which is what truely lives on. So with that said I'm trying to smoke myself to heaven, I'm pretty hi right now and I will let you all know if I make it but I feel like I'm getting close.


I have studied many religions and practiced them as well. I have had many spiritual experiences and have often felt God and angels helping me. Nothing has changed me or given me so much understanding, strength, and hope as having the Holy spirit working in me and doing my best to live a righteous life following the Holy Word of God. I've seen many accounts of blind people gaining sight because of the healing power of God. People getting healed of inoperable cancer through prayer and laying on of hands and letting the spirit of God work through people. Christianity isn't just a means of control, it is the way to eternal life in paradise. And the way of true healing from God. The path to holiness and righteousness.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> For those interested in alternatives.
> 
> There is only one way to our Father the creator of heaven and earth, and that is through faith in Jesus Christ


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## ProfessorPotSnob (Jan 19, 2013)

_*Chief Seattle said it well ! We knew your God well before your missionaries came with sticks crossed . For the Creator ( Gzehminidou ) is our god too .......PotSnob 

One thing we know: our God is also your God. The earth is precious to him and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its creator.Your destiny is a mystery to us. What will happen when the buffalo are all slaughtered? The wild horses tamed? What will happen when the secret corners of the forest are heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills is blotted with talking wires? Where will the thicket be? Gone! Where will the eagle be? Gone! And what is to say goodbye to the swift pony and then hunt? The end of living and the beginning of survival.When the last red man has vanished with this wilderness, and his memory is only the shadow of a cloud moving across the prairie, will these shores and forests still be here? Will there be any of the spirit of my people left?We love this earth as a newborn loves its mother's heartbeat. So, if we sell you our land, love it as we have loved it. Care for it, as we have cared for it. Hold in your mind the memory of the land as it is when you receive it. Preserve the land for all children, and love it, as God loves us.As we are part of the land, you too are part of the land. This earth is precious to us. It is also precious to you.One thing we know - there is only one God. No man, be he Red man or White man, can be apart. We ARE all brothers after all."*
_


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

[video=youtube;I4R4VMMTyGc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4R4VMMTyGc[/video]


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## tyler.durden (Jan 19, 2013)

^^ Alright, Heis! You found my favorite video. It was shut down on YT for about a year, glad it's back...


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## tyler.durden (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> God allows free will and a free world for people to do as they please oldtimer54. God wants people to choose to do right, and gives us what we need to do good if we ask Him. Satan is still at work and has a lot of control in this world, so don't be surprised when bad things happen. We aren't just robots for God, we have the ability to choose what we do. This is why people make bad choices. I pray that God will guide us all to make the right and good choices in Jesus name amen


If god is omniscient, he knows all the choices we will make at the time we are created. Where does free will come into play in this scenario? Also, why does god allow Satan do exist at all? It's amazing the the greatest theological minds throughout history can't reconcile evil in the divine plan, but you come along and easily do it. It's great to have access to such amazing minds on a stoner's website, we are truly blessed...



OldGrowth420 said:


> *Don't allow evil to change the way you think about Jesus. Jesus is and always will be our God and our Savior. Just cry out Jesus save me and feel God come to you.*


I'd bet that some children and teachers at Sandy Hook cried out for Jesus to save them. What went wrong there? 



OldGrowth420 said:


> Heisenberg said:
> 
> 
> > For those interested in alternatives.
> ...


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 19, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> If god is omniscient, he knows all the choices we will make at the time we are created. Where does free will come into play in this scenario?


Hey, Tyler... Cause and Effect is the reason, scripturally speaking. Whether Buddhist, Christian, etc, you've adhered to the 'law' of cause and effect. And so it goes with successive lives. The choice to 'get off of the ride' (wheel) and see that life has an entirely different plan for people, is theirs. Usually not in accord with what the human will would like to have


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> There is only one way to our Father the creator of heaven and earth, and that is through faith in Jesus Christ


What is faith? Trust in our creator and his plan? No, that's called confidence, we don't need to make up a new word for it. What is faith? It's when you just know god is real and feel him? No, that's called intuition, we don't need to make up a new word for it. What is faith? It's when you believe in something for no other reason than wanting it to be true. Ah yes, wishful thinking.

So the premise is, God created the universe. Thousands and thousands of galaxies, millions upon millions of planets, just so he could have a special relationship with one species on one planet, and give that species a test. This test is not based on actions good or bad. It is not based on love or hate, kindness or cruelty, benevolence or malice. The test is: Can you believe in me based on only the poorest of evidence and on reasoning counter to the logical brain I gave you? If the answer is yes you get loved forever. If the answer is no then you get set on fire, for ever.

This is the message you feel compelled to spread...?



"An eye for an eye 
Stripped now of your sight
You make think you're innocent but ignorance makes you a suspect
Greed and gluttony, fraud and treachery
You may think you're better than this
Arrogance, a guilty verdict!"


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## Kite High (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I have been moved by God to begin a thread on the way to heaven,
> I pray that many people will be saved from hell by viewing this thread.
> This is not a place to slander Christianity. Please keep it clean.
> 
> ...


* How do I get to heaven?*











King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand!!


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

John 14:6 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."

People are raised from the dead, sight is restored to the blind, limbs are restored, incurable diseases are healed.

I myself have healed people by the power of God.

Believing in Jesus is a choice. God is real, heaven is real.. Hell is most definitely real.

Where will you go?

You choose.

[video=youtube;x4n9vK0_mdk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4n9vK0_mdk[/video]


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## Kite High (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> John 14:6 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."
> 
> People are raised from the dead, sight is restored to the blind, limbs are restored, incurable diseases are healed.
> 
> ...


I try to stay in the heavenly realm....don't have to wait til I die...I showed you how but you ignore me with words....words will get you no where...works my friend


and I posted my works in the above post


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> What is faith? Trust in our creator and his plan? No, that's called confidence, we don't need to make up a new word for it. What is faith? It's when you just know god is real and feel him? No, that's called intuition, we don't need to make up a new word for it. What is faith? It's when you believe in something for no other reason than wanting it to be true. Ah yes, wishful thinking.
> 
> So the premise is, God created the universe. Thousands and thousands of galaxies, millions upon millions of planets, just so he could have a special relationship with one species on one planet, and give that species a test. This test is not based on actions good or bad. It is not based on love or hate, kindness or cruelty, benevolence or malice. The test is: Can you believe in me based on only the poorest of evidence and on reasoning counter to the logical brain I gave you? If the answer is yes you get loved forever. If the answer is no then you get set on fire, for ever.
> 
> ...


First of all i would like to say that from where i am sitting, the evidence is overwhelming. I look at the pattern of galaxies and stars, or a Fibonacci sequence, or a flower, or a sunset and see divine creation at work. Do you think it is random that cannabis gets you high? I know there is a creator as i look upon His creation, and i know that Jesus is the way to heaven by practicing what he teaches and seeing the benefits of all of His wisdom.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Kite High said:


> I try to stay in the heavenly realm....don't have to wait til I die...I showed you how but you ignore me with words....words will get you no where...works my friend
> 
> 
> and I posted my works in the above post


I'm working on replying to all of you. please be patient


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

"Accepting, for the sake of argument, that God intervenes to heal people, what kind of grudge does he have against amputees? The general answer to this is to say that God doesn't heal anyone, so amputees are no different. Faith healing only works on disorders that are invisible to the naked eye, or medical complaints that can naturally go in to remission. The curing of a cancer is somewhat ambiguous when compared to the regrowth of a limb, and that's probably why Christians shall never miraculously regrow lost limbs."

"By looking at amputees, we can see that something is wrong. Jesus is not telling the truth. God never answers prayers to spontaneously restore lost limbs, despite Jesus' statements in the Bible. Accepting this piece of factual information, rather than denying it, is the first step in understanding something extremely important about how prayer really works"


[video=youtube;4238NN8HMgQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4238NN8HMgQ[/video]


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## cannabineer (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Some people aren't spiritually sensitive. Every time i say Maranatha, which means come Lord Jesus in Aramaic i feel this spiritual swoosh and then i can feel God helping me and my spirit. If you don't feel anything, another thing i notice is i can go and look at my eyes in the mirror, then i can spend about a half hour reading John in the new testament in the bible (there are a lot of bibles online) And i can see this beauty shining through my eyes as my spirit is cleansed and beautified by the word of God. Especially the whites of my eyes. Also try saying "I confess, repent, and ask forgiveness for all of my sins in Jesus name amen" That always makes me feel better and helps my spirit to flow right. Make sure it's from the heart.


Negative result. How do i determine the level of my spiritual sensitivity? And I was always under the impression that that quality was not required or even relevant. Most importantly, what authentication do I demand to avoid impostor feelings of the divine? How do I know i'm not feeling a ... troll? cn


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> If god is omniscient, he knows all the choices we will make at the time we are created. Where does free will come into play in this scenario? Also, why does god allow Satan do exist at all? It's amazing the the greatest theological minds throughout history can't reconcile evil in the divine plan, but you come along and easily do it. It's great to have access to such amazing minds on a stoner's website, we are truly blessed...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> First of all i would like to say that from where i am sitting, the evidence is overwhelming. I look at the pattern of galaxies and stars, or a Fibonacci sequence, or a flower, or a sunset and see divine creation at work. Do you think it is random that cannabis gets you high? I know there is a creator as i look upon His creation, and i know that Jesus is the way to heaven by practicing what he teaches and seeing the benefits of all of His wisdom.



This explains only that you have very low standards for what you consider evidence coupled with a bias toward Jesus, since many others look at the same evidence and become convinced of Allah, or some other deity. The choice of deity seems to be influenced solely on geographical and chronological criteria, as people living in the mid-east never have revelations of Jesus, and no one living today has revelations of Zeus. If everything we can point to is evidence of a creator, then why, when we study everything, do we see the possible explanation of creation without the need for God's hand? After all, the more knowledge that is gained about the scheme of things, the less room there is for god. Divinity is an arbitrary attribute you choose to add to the world, and that is a fine choice for you to make, but don't expect it to mean anything to anyone else.

This also contradicts what you have said, that the only way to heaven is through faith in the father. If we have evidence, we no longer need faith. So if god did give us evidence, it would seem to contradict his requirements, and if he didn't give us evidence, then we are back to my statements about the test. God gives you a test based on faith, aka wishful thinking, and thanks to Jesus, pays no attention to your deeds, thoughts or feelings beyond that, since the only unforgivable sin is lack of faith.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I cannot tell you the mind and heart of God.


Not to step on tylers reply, but this is exactly what you have been doing. Claiming to not only know that god exists, but what he wants from us. It seems you are in fact quite specific when you have propaganda at the ready, but when you do not have an answer, you fall back on ambiguity.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm
> 
> "Accepting, for the sake of argument, that God intervenes to heal people, what kind of grudge does he have against amputees? The general answer to this is to say that God doesn't heal anyone, so amputees are no different. Faith healing only works on disorders that are invisible to the naked eye, or medical complaints that can naturally go in to remission. The curing of a cancer is somewhat ambiguous when compared to the regrowth of a limb, and that's probably why Christians shall never miraculously regrow lost limbs."
> 
> ...


 Amputee woman healed by God http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=77KG7NNX


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> Negative result. How do i determine the level of my spiritual sensitivity? And I was always under the impression that that quality was not required or even relevant. Most importantly, what authentication do I demand to avoid impostor feelings of the divine? How do I know i'm not feeling a ... troll? cn


I do not know how you can determine the level of your spiritual sensitivity, how do i explain sight to a blind man?

It's just about being sincere, sincerity being an attitude of the heart. It's not about quality.

This last question is one that even as we speak i am debunking. It may take more time for me to give you a full answer, but spending time dealing with God and his angels and getting a full spectrum of divine intuition and feeling over time is the best way to determine what feelings are coming from where.


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## Blue Wizard (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Believing in Jesus is a choice. God is real, heaven is real.. Hell is most definitely real.
> 
> Where will you go?
> 
> You choose.


[video=youtube;riwxbh_n_WM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riwxbh_n_WM[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

cannabineer when you move your finger back and forth between your eyes can you feel your finger without seeing it? If you can you may be spiritually sensitive


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Not to step on tylers reply, but this is exactly what you have been doing. Claiming to not only know that god exists, but what he wants from us. It seems you are in fact quite specific when you have propaganda at the ready, but when you do not have an answer, you fall back on ambiguity.


I only know what i know. I can answer some questions and others i can't. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean i know everything there is to know about a God that is so complex He can create everything in the universe, heaven, hell, and every realm.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Amputee healed by God posted on an atheist website : http://atheistbus.ca/2009/04/01/god-heals-amputee-first-ever-to-be-recorded-by-doctors/


I am not sure if you are joking, terribly naive, or simply missed the fact that this was posted as satire on April 1st...


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Kite High said:


> I try to stay in the heavenly realm....don't have to wait til I die...I showed you how but you ignore me with words....words will get you no where...works my friend
> 
> 
> and I posted my works in the above post


I'm not sure how to reply to the pictures you posted. Being high feels wonderful, but it certainly doesn't compare to life in heaven. That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him." 1 Corinthians 2:9

My works are devoting my day to spreading the Gospel of peace to help others reach heaven friend.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I am not sure if you are joking, terribly naive, or simply missed the fact that this was posted as satire on April 1st...


Honestly in my hurry to respond to all of your inquiries i didn't read into it too much.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I only know what i know. I can answer some questions and others i can't. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean i know everything there is to know about a God that is so complex He can create everything in the universe, heaven, hell, and every realm.


The things you seem to 'know' you can not explain or demonstrate, so how can you be said to know them? Perhaps because it's dogma that falls apart under the slightest of scrutiny? When your answers lead only to two choices, blind faith or more questions, then they aren't really answers.


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## tyler.durden (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> > I cannot tell you the mind and heart of God.
> 
> 
> But you do. What god wants/thinks is peppered throughout your posts. You may mean to say that you cannot tell me the mind and heart of god when posed with the difficulties and logical contradictions of your dogma.
> ...


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Honestly in my hurry to respond to all of your inquiries i didn't read into it too much.


I know what it is like to be in a hurry and on a slow computer. Take your time to answer, we aren't going anywhere. But think about what just happened... think of how important and serious the message you are sending is. You are speaking about our very existence in eternity, and yet, you haven't even bothered to check your sources. How can you stand up and say that god is real because he heals people, and yet never have checked to see if it is true? That is the problem with blind faith, a lot of pitfalls and room for mistakes. 

You are not doing a very good job of conveying confidence in your message. You sound like a confused victim of his own mental scams rather than a messenger of the divine. I realize you are eager to share your feelings and beliefs, but it takes a lot of balls to stand up and lead people based on stuff you haven't really thought much about.


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## rooky1985 (Jan 19, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I am not sure if you are joking, terribly naive, or simply missed the fact that this was posted as satire on April 1st...


Pretty funny article though, Angie O'Plasty, I'm sure that was a joke because every time a religous argument comes about people demand proof. IMO religion should be seen as a way of educating right from wrong through stories and simulated experiences but nothing litteral. Remember christianity is a missionary faith, he feels it is his devine duty to get everyone to commit to his god, you know like David Koresh did LOL.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Honestly in my hurry to respond to all of your inquiries i didn't read into it too much.



Amputee brought back from the dead and given a new leg by God http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=77KG7NNX


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## Kite High (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I'm not sure how to reply to the pictures you posted. Being high feels wonderful, but it certainly doesn't compare to life in heaven. That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him." 1 Corinthians 2:9
> 
> My works are devoting my day to spreading the Gospel of peace to help others reach heaven friend.


I am sorry you feel you must die to attain heaven...that is you...But I do not and will not...and my thc, dmt, etc. tell and shows me so


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Amputee brought back from the dead and given a new leg by God http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=77KG7NNX


So you sourced that video in a couple minutes, or did you blindly accept it?

It took me all of 5 minutes to find that the medical community seriously doubts this case is real.




> "This page shows several X-rays and MRIs of Carole&#8217;s stump, supposedly documenting this regrowth, which, as of 2002, Carole claims to include the regrowth of the quadriceps, anterior tibialis, and gastrocnemius muscles, although there is no documentation of this specific point in any of the reports. In fact, I notice that the X-rays and MRIs are shown, but *no radiology reports* accompany them to back up Carole&#8217;s claims and *no direct statements from doctor*s, just Carole&#8217;s account that the doctors described her progress as a &#8220;miracle.&#8221; If you scroll down the page to the MRI from December 13, 2006 and compare it to the MRI from July 25, 2002 and the X-rays from 1995, you&#8217;ll see that there really is no significant &#8220;regrowth.&#8221; True, there does appear to be some remodeling of soft tissue and bone, but that&#8217;s to be expected after her operation in 1995. In fact, even if you believe that there&#8217;s been some bone lengthening, the amount of lengthening observed over six years looks trivial on her imaging studies. Even if her leg truly were regenerating, at the rate documented on her website, *I can safely (and sadly) conclude that Carole will almost certainly die of old age before she regrows enough bone to mean anything.*"
> 
> 
> "Let me ask you something: If you were a doctor, had a patient with a limb that was regenerating 20 years after it had been amputated because of trauma, and had compelling, unequivocal evidence to prove it, what would you do? I know what I&#8217;d do. I&#8217;d submit a case report to the New England Journal of Medicine! That&#8217;s what I&#8217;d do. If I had the goods that proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt, Carole would be world-famous, and so would I!"


http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/10/01/jesus-is-growing-her-a-new-leg/


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## tyler.durden (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Amputee brought back from the dead and given a new leg by God http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=77KG7NNX


Before I take the time to look at this, I'd like to know if you did...


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## rooky1985 (Jan 19, 2013)

Also manys sects of hinduism and buddhism embrace the teachings of other religions, realizing that religion's true power comes from a unified belief that good mostly prevails over evil. I think that some religions truely jeapordize thier future by pushing for a "100% conversion rate".


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I know what it is like to be in a hurry and on a slow computer. Take your time to answer, we aren't going anywhere. But think about what just happened... think of how important and serious the message you are sending is. You are speaking about our very existence in eternity, and yet, you haven't even bothered to check your sources. How can you stand up and say that god is real because he heals people, and yet never have checked to see if it is true? That is the problem with blind faith, a lot of pitfalls and room for mistakes.
> 
> You are not doing a very good job of conveying confidence in your message. You sound like a confused victim of his own mental scams rather than a messenger of the divine. I realize you are eager to share your feelings and beliefs, but it takes a lot of balls to stand up and lead people based on stuff you haven't really thought much about.


I know God heals people because He has been healing me over the past few weeks of a pain i have had for two years in my stomach.
I know God is real because i have been involved in casting out many demons.
I know God is real because he cleanses me of sin when i read His word and confess, repent, and ask forgiveness.
I have heard countless testimonies of people that have been healed by God from cancer and from many forms of illness and delivered from addictions.
I know God is real because i can feel when i sin and i have a conscience that tells me when i am doing something wrong, and because everyone has a conscience.. convicting them of sin.

If my replys are flawed this is a reflection of my humanity, and my emotions. 
I sincerely apologize for any inconsistancies or anything i have done that has caused you to doubt. 
I hope that the Caroline Miller McCleery-Greene's mri photos of her non existent, then restored leg can bring some clarity to you.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Before I take the time to look at this, I'd like to know if you did...


I watched her show the mri photos of her non existent, then completely restored leg.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

rooky1985 said:


> Also manys sects of hinduism and buddhism embrace the teachings of other religions, realizing that religion's true power comes from a unified belief that good mostly prevails over evil. I think that some religions truely jeapordize thier future by pushing for a "100% conversion rate".


There is an absolute truth, and it is the testimony of Jesus Christ of Nazareth the Son of the Father of all spirits Adonai, or Jehovah.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 19, 2013)

Its the assertions made by religious dogma that demands the burden of proof to be upon itself as they are unsustainable,bold statements and commands that are preached in the gospels demand an actual measurable source to be conveyed from, 
(-there are only heresays and accounts of such attempts at this)-.This is why it is so prevailent in these discussions as it is very important and at the center of the logical fallacy of the would be touted truth.How can there be any logic in something that cannot be substantiated or demonstrated through reality and actuality?Think about it very carefuly.


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## Kite High (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> There is an absolute truth, and it is the testimony of Jesus Christ of Nazareth the Son of the Father of all spirits Adonai, or Jehovah.


you mean Yahweh correct?


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## 420IAMthatIAM (Jan 19, 2013)

rooky1985 said:


> Also manys sects of hinduism and buddhism embrace the teachings of other religions, realizing that religion's true power comes from a unified belief that good mostly prevails over evil. I think that some religions truely jeapordize thier future by pushing for a "100% conversion rate".


amen, amen bits of truth in all religions but yet no religion is the truth.http://youtu.be/X1sgTKbt124


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I know God heals people because He has been healing me over the past few weeks of a pain i have had for two years in my stomach.
> I know God is real because i have been involved in casting out many demons.
> I know God is real because he cleanses me of sin when i read His word and confess, repent, and ask forgiveness.
> I have heard countless testimonies of people that have been healed by God from cancer and from many forms of illness and delivered from addictions.
> I know God is real because i can feel when i sin and i have a conscience that tells me when i am doing something wrong, and because everyone has a conscience.. convicting them of sin.


Thanks for stating your qualifications. I notice none of them include thinking or serious study. These things may fool your brain, but they do not fool ours. Your faith means nothing to anyone but you. Why should _your_ faith mean something to me?


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## rooky1985 (Jan 19, 2013)

Kite High said:


> you mean Yahweh correct?


I believe so, but the devout feel his name is to pure to say/type.


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## Kite High (Jan 19, 2013)

rooky1985 said:


> I believe so, but the devout feel his name is to pure to say/type.


And are sadly misinformed


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

I understand all of your inquiries, and i understand your way of thinking and i empathize with you. You are all understood and your opinions are respected. Helsenberg i have an extremely strong conviction to help you, as i see you thirst for knowledge.
I desire to be holy, as i am extremely spiritually sensitive and have a spiritual affliction that causes me to become unclean.
I have lost my wife, and basically everything i have held dear because of my spiritual malady and the way it bothers others..
So naturally i have sought anything and virtually everything to cleanse me and the only thing i have found that helps me is Christianity.
Reading the Holy Bible cleanses my spirit and does wonders for treating my affliction, though it is from God and He chooses not to completely relieve me.
I have been afflicted because of my sin, and i deserve anything that God has for me.
Come what may, i walk for God.
I have noticed, being a traveler.. that places where Christianity is the most prevalent is where people are the kindest and most warm hearted.
I desire to surround myself with loving individuals, and the only individuals that i have found to be able to truly reciprocate love are Christians.
I believe this is because of the Christian teaching that once one accepts Christ and follows His path, they receive The Holy Spirit also known as the Helper.
I can see the holy spirit shining in the whites of devout Christians eyes.
As an empathic person, and being sensitive in all ways, I have found that it is imperitive for me to surround myself with people that will treat me kindly and will reciprocate my love.
People I can trust.
I have found that while generalizing is generally a thought process that i would consider foolish,
Christians, while not all.. But devout Christians are generally very non-judgemental, compassionate, forgiving, kind, patient, and generally just wholesome good hearted people.
I would see them and interact with them, and even believing in their faith myself, i wanted what they had. And i found that the more i adhere to there ideologies, i seemed to beautify from the inside out.
The more i read the Holy Bible and put it's principles and guidelines into practice, the more improvement and divine help and inspiration i have in my life.
Ever aspect of my character has become more Holy and more innocent the more i adhere to God's principles.
I can sing better, when i play guitar these praises from God just come out of me and i have no idea how or why,
As if God is singing through me.
I met a prophet that knew so many things about my life that there is no way he could have known without spiritual inspiration. 
I will write some more later but i am going to take a break from the internet for awhile as i have been on here all day.

Here is a video from the prophet i spoke of. 
In this video you can hear him speaking in the language of the Holy Spirit, a gift of having God dwelling within us. 
I have also gained this ability and can sing and speak in different languages.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6nXTMZY274&list=UU6Y7mT5vfpxd4k3tV5SsyZw&index=1


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## cannabineer (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I do not know how you can determine the level of your spiritual sensitivity, how do i explain sight to a blind man?
> 
> It's just about being sincere, sincerity being an attitude of the heart. It's not about quality.
> 
> This last question is one that even as we speak i am debunking. It may take more time for me to give you a full answer, but spending time dealing with God and his angels and getting a full spectrum of divine intuition and feeling over time is the best way to determine what feelings are coming from where.


One of the best ways to explain light (if not sight) to a blind man would be to rig an instrument that gives auditoyry signals corresponding to illumination. You can use sound to indicate intensity and color ... if not imaging.
I was wondering what objective inorganic third-party method I might use to get away from feelings, anecdotes, the subjective in general. And this ~sigh~ I don't think I can have. 

I also offer a warning: our psyches are very very limited in scope and bandwidth ... and can be easily fooled. I do not trust feeling, even experienced feeling, to tell a good (hypothetical and spiritual) ambush predator from a benevolent being. cn


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

"I also offer a warning: our psyches are very very limited in scope and bandwidth ... and can be easily fooled. I do not trust feeling, even experienced feeling, to tell a good (hypothetical and spiritual) ambush predator from a benevolent being."I support this line of thinking.
But I also think that if you cry out to God and you feel a spiritual being come down and help you, this could be considered evidence.
I pray all of you have your own spiritual experiences very soon.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Not to step on tylers reply, but this is exactly what you have been doing. Claiming to not only know that god exists, but what he wants from us. It seems you are in fact quite specific when you have propaganda at the ready, but when you do not have an answer, you fall back on ambiguity.


Heisenberg, don't let your mind get in the way of what your heart is telling you.


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## tyler.durden (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I understand all of your inquiries, and i understand your way of thinking and i empathize with you. You are all understood and your opinions are respected. Helsenberg i have an extremely strong conviction to help you, as i see you thirst for knowledge.
> I desire to be holy, as i am extremely spiritually sensitive and have a spiritual affliction that causes me to become unclean.
> I have lost my wife, and basically everything i have held dear because of my spiritual malady and the way it bothers others..
> So naturally i have sought anything and virtually everything to cleanse me and the only thing i have found that helps me is Christianity.
> ...


Wow. That video seems to be produced by/for mentally ill people - It is extremely non-sensible and repetitive, the music and voices are out of tune, and the speaking in tongues is muffled in the background. You have to know that these are not real languages, as true languages are for communicating, not just syllables being uttered in any random pattern. No one (maybe other than oneself) could translate what anyone else is saying when uttering this rubbish. The languages you claim to speak, can anyone outside of yourself accurately transcribe what you are communicating? If not, it isn't a language. And _you_ want to help _Heis_, why not let him help you?


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## tyler.durden (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Heisenberg, don't let your mind get in the way of what your heart is telling you.


Yeah, Heis! Take that brain out and toss it, it obviously isn't doing you any good...


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

The language is for communicating with God. It is a prayer language. I don't understand why you guys keep saying that my argument is illogical. Listen to the exorcism i posted, or watch the video at the top of the thread about the girl who went to and painted the images of hell. Even if there is a chance that these things are real, which they are.. I would seriously do my best to make sure i didn't end up in a place like hell.

If there is a chance that hell is real, the logical thing to do is to follow the path to heaven through Jesus Christ.

Take a chance of burning in hell thinking your limited sensory experience is enough to define absolute truth vs. following the path of God and righteousness and Holiness through Jesus Christ and going to Heaven

Don't gamble with eternity.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Also there are special Christians with a spiritual gift of translating that language, and Christians have been known to speak in other earthly languages like Aramaic, even though they had no previous knowledge of the language they were speaking.

1 Corinthians 12 
[h=3]Concerning Spiritual Gifts[/h]12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. [SUP]2 [/SUP]You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, &#8220;Jesus be cursed,&#8221; and no one can say, &#8220;Jesus is Lord,&#8221; except by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. [SUP]5 [/SUP]There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. [SUP]6 [/SUP]There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. [SUP]8 [/SUP]To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, [SUP]9 [/SUP]to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, [SUP]10 [/SUP]to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[SUP][a][/SUP] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Faith comes by hearing the word of God.


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## drolove (Jan 19, 2013)

heaven would have to exist to get there...which it dont....so why spam our forum with nonsense?


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Romans 10 *The Word of Faith Brings Salvation*

*1*Brethren, my heart&#8217;s desire and my prayer to God for them is for _their_ salvation.*2*For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.*3*For not knowing about God&#8217;s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.*4*For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

*5*For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.*6*But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: &#8220;DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, &#8216;WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?&#8217; (that is, to bring Christ down),*7*or &#8216;WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?&#8217; (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).&#8221;*8*But what does it say? &#8220;THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART&#8221;&#8212;that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,*9*that if you confess with your mouth Jesus _is_ Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;*10*for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.*11*For the Scripture says, &#8220;WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.&#8221;*12*For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same _Lord_ is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;*13*for &#8220;WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.&#8221;

*14*How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?*15*How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, &#8220;HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!&#8221;

*16*However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, &#8220;LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?&#8221;*17*So faith _comes_ from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

*18*But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;
&#8220;THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH,
AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.&#8221;

*19*But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says,
&#8220;I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION,
BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU.&#8221;

*20*And Isaiah is very bold and says,
&#8220;I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME,
I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.&#8221;

*21*But as for Israel He says, &#8220;ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.&#8221;


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## gioua (Jan 19, 2013)

Kite High said:


> I am sorry you feel you must die to attain heaven...that is you...But I do not and will not...and my thc, dmt, etc. tell and shows me so


You are not obtaining anything but an escapism.. from what you currently have..


plain and simple..................



Religion is based on FAITH.............

The Bible is edited by Man who makes mistakes.........makes things personal...edits the meaning towards their desires.. I personally feel there is much truth in there.. and just like info being passed on when we tell a truth today.... they added some "flare" to it.

not one single person here can convince another person one way or the other.. 
internet forums are designed so we all have our say.. 

some folks like to add their thoughts... never having studied the subject....


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## drolove (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Faith comes by hearing the word of God.


except no one ever actually hears the word of god lol. if your hearing words in your head you need to seek help. REAL HELP.


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## Kite High (Jan 19, 2013)

gioua said:


> You are not obtaining anything but an escapism.. from what you currently have..
> 
> 
> plain and simple..................
> ...


what is the creator's name?

How do YOU know what ME and My Creator do ?

How do you know what these chemicals do for me?

I have no need for faith as I know my Creator personally


For He is my guidance and friend and we are consciously aware of each other and communicate in so many ways...And the Chemicals allow an easier communication and immersion

I am so sorry but religion in and of itself is evil, so according to your scriptures since these religions are of evil, they are not of Him. So I have nothing to do with them nor their false prophets, adherents nor profits, for that is what religions seek...PROFITS


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

drolove said:


> except no one ever actually hears the word of god lol. if your hearing words in your head you need to seek help. REAL HELP.


The Word of God is The Holy Bible


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 19, 2013)

Kite High said:


> what is the creator's name?
> 
> How do YOU know what ME and My Creator do ?
> 
> ...



Let's forget religion.
Cut all the dogma
I believe you know Adonai, the Creator
Just know that Jesus is His son and one with Him.
And that Jesus died for you.
That's what DAD (the Creator) wants me to say to you.


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## Kite High (Jan 19, 2013)

please if you are going to use names use the correct ones

Yahweh
Yahsua

for as you promote the FALSE names the truth is not in you. So I must not heed your words. see your scripture that you so profoundly use but do not know and you will see it says exactly what I just told you


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## tyler.durden (Jan 19, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The language is for communicating with God. It is a prayer language.


God doesn't understand English?


> I don't understand why you guys keep saying that my argument is illogical. Listen to the exorcism i posted, or watch the video at the top of the thread about the girl who went to and painted the images of hell. Even if there is a chance that these things are real, which they are.. I would seriously do my best to make sure i didn't end up in a place like hell.
> 
> If there is a chance that hell is real, the logical thing to do is to follow the path to heaven through Jesus Christ.
> 
> ...


It would really help your debate skills and critical thinking skills to familiarize yourself with basic logical fallacies. The one you demonstrate above is Pascal's Wager, and it is a fallacy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager


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## 3 Pounds of Weeden (Jan 19, 2013)

The Bible is a trip report


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## Heisenberg (Jan 19, 2013)

Proof of God # 230

PASCAL'S ARGUMENT, a.k.a. PASCAL'S WAGER (I)
(1) If God exists, it would be really cool. (And I would win big-time.)
(2) If God didn't exist, it would really suck. (But I wouldn't lose much.)
(3) Thus I should believe in God because it's the best bet.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

Proof of God # 15

ARGUMENT FROM UNINTELLIGENCE
(1) Okay, I don't pretend to be as intelligent as you guys &#8212; you're obviously very well read. But I read the Bible, and nothing you say can convince me that God does not exist. I feel him in my heart, and you can feel him too, if you'll just ask him into your life. "For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son into the world, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish from the earth." John 3:16.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

Proof of God # 241

ARGUMENT FROM SEVERABILITY, a.k.a. THE TRUE SCOTSMAN ARGUMENT
(1) Lots of ridiculous statements are made by people who only claim is to be Real Christians.
(2) They just give Real Christians a bad name.
(3) Real Christians don't believe <insert Biblical reference> is literally true.
(4) But that doesn't mean the Bible isn't still mostly true.
(5) And the Bible is the Word of God.
(6) Therefore, God exists.

Proof of God # 576

ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE (IV)
(1) God's word is the Bible.
(2) How do you know?
(3) It says so in the Bible.
(4) How do you know the Bible is true?
(5) The Bible is the word of God.
(6) But...
(7) Therefore, God exists.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 19, 2013)

...well, since God is love and creates all things out of the matrimony of spirit and matter, He is apparent. The process by which he is apparent is in the creation of things. Is there a spark of life in an atom? No need to wager on that.

Here's a thought. If the human race stopped that expression, there'd be no human race. So, who or what would you say is God? The 'creator' / generator of man?

(yep, the physical expression of love "creates" all things, who knew!) 

"Insertion of the vertical phallus into the horizontal uterus forms the Cross. _The Cross has the power to create._ There cannot be creation without the sign of the Holy Cross. Animal species are crossed, atoms and molecules are crossed to perpetuate life."

At this point, no need to envision that cross at calvary. Just think of a 'cross', and it is everywhere apparent. Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent... What is the one potency?


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 20, 2013)

The evidence is clear, look at the world around you.. look at an eye.
If you choose not to believe than it comes right down to that..
You're choice.

You have freewill to Follow God or follow your own way.
The consequences are clear.

Hell or Heaven.

It's very simple.

Say Jesus save me and mean it, Get baptized at your local church, and turn from your sins.. Trying your best to follow God's will

or
perish 
and burn forever more, being tortured by demons endlessly with no breaks.

i will post these videos again, just in case you missed them.
The evidence is very clear.
The facts are given, the conclusion is evident.
Choose wisely

[video=youtube;x4n9vK0_mdk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4n9vK0_mdk[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 20, 2013)

[video=youtube;ci9KI4rSXw4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9KI4rSXw4[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 20, 2013)

Kite High said:


> please if you are going to use names use the correct ones
> 
> Yahweh
> Yahsua
> ...


Yahweh or YHWH
Yeshua or Y'shua
Adonai means Lord in Hebrew

It's all the same God 
His name is I AM that I AM


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## Kite High (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Yahweh or YHWH
> Yeshua or Y'shua
> Adonai means Lord in Hebrew
> 
> ...


ok you speak lies and falsehood...never were those his names ..a tiny bit of research on your part would show this to you and your not knowing this proves to me you are not OF HIM and false....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton
good day...I AM done with you evil speaker

you do not own this thread and you are the one bashing and spreading lies and falsehood


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## drolove (Jan 20, 2013)

Eeevvvviillllll!!!!!


----------



## Heisenberg (Jan 20, 2013)

You believe what?!?


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 20, 2013)

Kite High said:


> ok you speak lies and falsehood...never were those his names ..a tiny bit of research on your part would show this to you and your not knowing this proves to me you are not OF HIM and false....
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton
> ...


The link you provided provides this information, As Jews are forbidden to say or write the Tetragrammaton in full, when reading the Torah they use the term _Adonai

_Which is exactly what I said


----------



## Kite High (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The link you provided provides this information, As Jews are forbidden to say or write the Tetragrammaton in full, when reading the Torah they use the term _Adonai
> 
> _Which is exactly what I said


no you said Adonai, Elohim, Jesus, Lord , God, Jehova
Lord comes from the false god Baal
Elohim comes from El shaddai, which is erroneous misapplication of one of the other religions
Jesus from Isesus the son Of Zeus
God from Gawd a germanic tribe god
Jehova an erroneous interpretation of the tetragramaton and Adonai combined 

Exodus 3:15 states YHWH in the oldest verified texts and the meaning of Yahweh coincides with the meaning of His name exemplified in 3:14...

Last time you perpetuate falsehood and YOUR scripture states that this makes you not of Him and one with a forked tongue not to be heeded but avoided

It is your Book that states this but somehow you go against your own belief...Hypocrite...Pharisee


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## Heisenberg (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I believe in Jesus,
> The Son of God
> 
> View attachment 2487826


Actually your ideas more closely resemble a delusion than a belief. A belief is information you deem true about the world based on real world data. The entire idea behind forming beliefs is to distinguish between accurate information and misleading information, and this is done by analyzing observations. Even the asinine belief that walking under a ladder is bad luck is based on real world data. Your confidence in Jesus as you have stated it is based on nothing but faith. When you hold truths that depend on ignoring real world information, these truths can no longer be said to tell you anything accurate about the real world. Just like any other belief that is based on nothing but fantasy, we can call this one a delusion, a bastardization of the purpose of having a belief system to begin with. 

To be fair I do not deem all Christians delusional. Some of them manage to hold beliefs and confine Christianity to a philosophy. These are people who have actually thought about the gospel rather than just regurgitated it, people who realize that faith does not trump observable, measurable facts. You appear to be simple, empty, and clueless. The evidence you have presented to us amounts to; gullibility, an April fools prank, and an old book which bears no sign of divinity and shows all the earmarks of being cobbled together by ignorant mortals for whom a wheelbarrow would have been considered emergent technology.

I support your right to express your views, but you should understand that when you present them as a moron, people will judge you moronic, and you wont accomplish much.


----------



## cannabineer (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Faith comes by hearing the word of God.


Real faith, or simple stravation of other ways to think?


OldGrowth420 said:


> The Word of God is The Holy Bible


Never been proven. One cannot use a text's claim to verity as an indicator of verity.


OldGrowth420 said:


> *The evidence is clear, look at the world around you.. look at an eye.*
> If you choose not to believe than it comes right down to that..
> You're choice.
> 
> ...


The bolded is where I step off. The existence of the eye is not proof of anything other than life's capacity to develop ways to see. It does not in any consequent way point at a designed universe, and it certainly doesn't bear an ID of a designer. 
You're offering the classical Romans 1:20 carnival magic to us: "nature proves God, and if you don't see it, well you're just an idiot". 

None of these things are useful to either prove or identify an engaged Divine. And the Christian core texts contain so much just plain ugliness that i cannot accept them without _compelling _independent evidence for their verity. My opinion. cn


----------



## D3monic (Jan 20, 2013)

Please do not spam that religious garbage to my inbox again. I did not solicit it and have no desire to engage in you religious rhetoric. My only warning.


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I have been moved by God to begin a thread on the way to heaven,
> I pray that many people will be saved from hell by viewing this thread.
> This is not a place to slander Christianity. Please keep it clean.
> 
> ...


You could be right, but you could also be wrong... i think i'll take my chances.


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 20, 2013)

I am digging around and i found this ebook that might interest you: Christian Handbook of reason and Insight for Scientists and Technologists.

http://www.christianapologetic.org/docs/Christian Handbook of REason and Insight for Scientists and Technologists.pdf


----------



## cannabineer (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Faith comes by hearing the word of God.





OldGrowth420 said:


> The Word of God is The Holy Bible





OldGrowth420 said:


> I am digging around and i found this ebook that might interest you: Christian Handbook of reason and Insight for Scientists and Technologists.
> 
> http://www.christianapologetic.org/docs/Christian%20Handbook%20of%20REason%20and%20Insight%20for%20Scientists%20and%20Technologists.pdf


I progressed to the point where the author misrepresents the Big Bang theory. He claims without citation that the Big Bang requires the pre-existence of space and time. This is not so. I have not gone on, since in a chain of logic you need only break one link. cn


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## Heisenberg (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I am digging around and i found this ebook that might interest you: Christian Handbook of reason and Insight for Scientists and Technologists.
> 
> http://www.christianapologetic.org/docs/Christian%20Handbook%20of%20REason%20and%20Insight%20for%20Scientists%20and%20Technologists.pdf



If salvation depends on faith, and faith requires no evidence or reasoning, then why do Christians spend time trying to provide evidence? Could it be that faith is help back as an 'out' whenever questions get too difficult to answer? You pretend to value faith while searching for reason, invalidating your own words.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 20, 2013)

I am searching for something tangible for all of those demanding evidence.
My faith is based upon evidence i have gathered over my lifetime.

Where did matter, time, and space originate if not created?

Even if you believe in the big bang theory, all of the components of our universe had to originate somewhere.


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## cannabineer (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I am searching for something tangible for all of those demanding evidence.
> My faith is based upon evidence i have gathered over my lifetime.
> 
> Where did matter, time, and space originate if not created?
> ...


Imo this is anthropic thinking: that the Universe has to make sense to mankind. 

At this stage in our history, scientific questions about the "source" or "matrix" or "word not yet invented" for the Big Bang cannot be answered within science, because the scientific mind operates entirely within time and space. What we can say is that time and space are apparently bounded by an earliest moment/extent. We're reduced to metaphysics, a grand "what-if" game still hewing as closely to known principles of nature as we can manage. 

Nobody can state that the universe was created or simply happened. So far no "simply happened" theory has been gunned down, and in my opinion a theory that incorporates deliberate creation is not necessary or preferred by what we know so far. cn


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## 3 Pounds of Weeden (Jan 20, 2013)

You seem to disregard everyone else's opinion and shove yours down our throats. It's pompous to believe your god is THE god. Have you ever stepped outside of Christianity? You can't know the world from your home.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 20, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> If salvation depends on faith, and faith requires no evidence or reasoning


...the pineal is where faith is established. Cannot be done without sanctifying 'the sex'.


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## Kite High (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I am searching for something tangible for all of those demanding evidence.
> My faith is based upon evidence i have gathered over my lifetime.
> 
> Where did matter, time, and space originate if not created?
> ...





OldGrowth420 said:


> The Word of God is The Holy Bible


Your lack of knowledge of the very text of your book as you term it "Holy Bible" is asinine and your proposed faith based upon that text when you do not know it makes it impossible for anyone to give your words merit


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## ProfessorPotSnob (Jan 20, 2013)

Where did the Jesus Avatar and Bible quoted signature go ? Repent !


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## 3 Pounds of Weeden (Jan 20, 2013)

Hey guys I just read Fahrenheit 451, Save all your books they are gonna burn them all. It's in a book so it has to be true, right?


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## Kite High (Jan 20, 2013)

3 Pounds of Weeden said:


> Hey guys I just read Fahrenheit 451, Save all your books they are gonna burn them all. It's in a book so it has to be true, right?


out burying all my books now...thanks!! rotflmfao!!!


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## bmeat (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I am searching for something tangible for all of those demanding evidence.
> My faith is based upon evidence i have gathered over my lifetime.
> 
> Where did matter, time, and space originate if not created?
> ...


the creator made it man! the one and only god! the geniuses on our earth solved for time, for energy, solved chaos, basically for everything, but no one could ever figure out how to create energy.

sure we can tranfer energy, but there is no way to destory it or create it. it momentum always moves on (which is fascinating in itself) but whats even more fascinating was who setup that ball of energy, that spewed life everywhere, that landed on all the rocks, and where the environment was forgiving (non toxic air, correct temperature, water thats not frozen or evaportaing in two seconds etc.) the life forms evolved into what we see today. since the plant had homeostatis, life learned homeostatis.

we adapt to the enviornment, and NEVER the other way around. someone created all this, but who, who was the ONE thing that created energy? we may never know..

supposedly we have telescopes on satellites that show there are other galaxies out there...setup much like ours..with a white dwarf star thats pulled rocks into its gravitational field, and these solar system too have one planet that is the perfect distance to harbor life..

i wonder if on them if mammals are the most evolved. if they are, are they behind us or ahead of us in evolution? if not mammals, then what species is evolved over there?

the dinosaurs would have never devolved into birds if there was no collison, and they probably would still be evolving and owning our planet if they didnt die off and make space for us to evolve. the only reason the flying ones survived was becuase they could fly away and get food, but since their populaiton was so small, and they never mainted a home with homeostasis, they devolved into birds, and left room for mammals to evolve. when you hear a bird, think x1000 haha.

so much to think about.


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## Kite High (Jan 20, 2013)

bmeat said:


> the creator made it man! the one and only god! the geniuses on our earth solved for time, for energy, solved chaos, basically for everything, but no one could ever figure out how to create energy.
> 
> sure we can tranfer energy, but there is no way to destory it or create it. it momentum always moves on (which is fascinating in itself) but whats even more fascinating was who setup that ball of energy, that spewed life everywhere, that landed on all the rocks, and where the environment was forgiving (non toxic air, correct temperature, water thats not frozen or evaportaing in two seconds etc.) the life forms evolved into what we see today. since the plant had homeostatis, life learned homeostatis.
> 
> ...


WTF?......wow..... you seriously think dinos devolved into birds? They evolved dude...birds are warm blooded and much better suited to existing so how can it be devolution?


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 20, 2013)

ProfessorPotSnob said:


> Where did the Jesus Avatar and Bible quoted signature go ? Repent !


The administrator deleted it.


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## Kite High (Jan 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The administrator deleted it.


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## bmeat (Jan 20, 2013)

Kite High said:


> WTF?......wow..... you seriously think dinos devolved into birds? They evolved dude...birds are warm blooded and much better suited to existing so how can it be devolution?


"*Birds* (class *Aves*) are feathered, winged, bipedal, endothermic (warm-blooded), egg-laying, vertebrate animals. With around 10,000 living species, they are the most speciose class of tetrapod vertebrates. All present species belong to the subclass Neornithes, and inhabit ecosystems across the globe, from the Arctic to the Antarctic. Extant birds range in size from the 5 cm (2 in) Bee Hummingbird to the 2.75 m (9 ft) Ostrich. The fossil record indicates that birds emerged within theropod dinosaurs during the Jurassic period, around 160 million years (Ma) ago. Paleontologists regard birds as the only clade of dinosaurs to have survived the Cretaceous&#8211;Paleogene extinction event 65.5 Ma (million years) ago."


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## pothead18 (Jan 20, 2013)

.........


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## cannabineer (Jan 20, 2013)

bmeat said:


> "*Birds* (class *Aves*) are feathered, winged, bipedal, endothermic (warm-blooded), egg-laying, vertebrate animals. With around 10,000 living species, they are the most speciose class of tetrapod vertebrates. All present species belong to the subclass Neornithes, and inhabit ecosystems across the globe, from the Arctic to the Antarctic. Extant birds range in size from the 5 cm (2 in) Bee Hummingbird to the 2.75 m (9 ft) Ostrich. The fossil record indicates that birds emerged within theropod dinosaurs during the Jurassic period, around 160 million years (Ma) ago. Paleontologists regard birds as the only clade of dinosaurs to have survived the Cretaceous&#8211;Paleogene extinction event 65.5 Ma (million years) ago."


All true and good, but the word "devolve" injects a value judgment imo. The only common feature of evolution is the direction of time. A cave lizard that lost its eyes - is this devolution? I say no; it is adaptation to a new environment. Eyes cost energy to run, and are an unnecessary metabolic expense in a dark place where food is probably not abundant. cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 20, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...the pineal is where faith is established.


I'm sorry for pickin on you all the time, but bro... this is just absolutely not true.

This is a good read if any of you have the time.

CN, i think you might really like this read. 

"Religious belief and behaviour are a hallmark of human life, with no accepted 
animal equivalent, and found in all cultures," said Professor Jordan Grafman, 
from the US National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke in Bethesda, 
near Washington. "Our results are unique in demonstrating that specific 
components of religious belief are mediated by well-known brain networks, and 
they support contemporary psychological theories that ground religious belief 
within evolutionary-adaptive cognitive functions."

Scientists are divided on whether religious belief has a biological basis. 
Some evolutionary theorists have suggested that Darwinian natural selection may 
have put a premium on individuals if they were able to use religious belief to 
survive hardships that may have overwhelmed those with no religious convictions. 
Others have suggested that religious belief is a side effect of a wider trait in 
the human brain to search for coherent beliefs about the outside world. Religion 
and the belief in God, they argue, are just a manifestation of this intrinsic, 
biological phenomenon that makes the human brain so intelligent and 
adaptable.

The latest study, published in the journal Proceedings of the National 
Academy of Sciences, involved analysing the brains of volunteers, who had been 
asked to think about religious and moral problems and questions. For the 
analysis, the researchers used a functional magnetic-resonance imaging machine, 
which can identify the most energetically-active regions of the brain.

They found that people of different religious persuasions and beliefs, as 
well as atheists, all tended to use the same electrical circuits in the brain to 
solve a perceived moral conundrum &#8211; and the same circuits were used when 
religiously-inclined people dealt with issues related to God.

The study found that several areas of the brain are involved in religious 
belief, one within the frontal lobes of the cortex &#8211; which are unique to humans 
Professor Grafman said.

"There is nothing unique about religious belief in these brain structures. 
Religion doesn't have a 'God spot' as such, instead it's embedded in a whole 
range of other belief systems in the brain that we use everyday," Professor 
Grafman said.

The search for the God spot has in the past led scientists to many different 
regions of the brain. An early contender was the brain's temporal lobe, a large 
section of the brain that sits over each ear, because temporal-lobe epileptics 
suffering seizures in these regions frequently report having intense religious 
experiences. One of the principal exponents of this idea was Vilayanur 
Ramachandran, from the University of California, San Diego, who asked several of 
his patients with temporal-lobe epilepsy to listen to a mixture of religious, 
sexual and neutral words while measuring their levels of arousal and emotional 
reactions. Religious words elicited an unusually high response in these 
patients.

This work was followed by a study where scientists tried to stimulate the 
temporal lobes with a rotating magnetic field produced by a "God helmet". 
Michael Persinger, from Laurentian University in Ontario, found that he could 
artificially create the experience of religious feelings &#8211; the helmet's wearer 
reports being in the presence of a spirit or having a profound feeling of cosmic 
bliss.

Dr Persinger said that about eight in every 10 volunteers report 
quasi-religious feelings when wearing his helmet. However, when Professor 
Richard Dawkins, an evolutionist and renowned atheist, wore it during the making 
of a BBC documentary, he famously failed to find God, saying that the helmet 
only affected his breathing and his limbs.

Other studies of people taking part in Buddhist meditation suggested the 
parietal lobes at the upper back region of the brain were involved in 
controlling religious belief, in particular the mystical elements that gave 
people a feeling of being on a higher plane during prayer.

Andrew Newberg, from the University of Pennsylvania, injected radioactive 
isotope into Buddhists at the point at which they achieved meditative nirvana. 
Using a special camera, he captured the distribution of the tracer in the brain, 
which led the researchers to identify the parietal lobes as playing a key role 
during this transcendental state.

Professor Grafman was more interested in how people coped with everyday moral 
and religious questions. He said that the latest study, published today, 
suggests the brain is inherently sensitive to believing in almost anything if 
there are grounds for doing so, but when there is a mystery about something, the 
same neural machinery is co-opted in the formulation of religious belief.

"When we have incomplete knowledge of the world around us, it offers us the 
opportunities to believe in God. When we don't have a scientific explanation for 
something, we tend to rely on supernatural explanations," said Professor 
Grafman, who believes in God. "Maybe obeying supernatural forces that we had no 
knowledge of made it easier for religious forms of belief to emerge."


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 20, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I'm sorry for pickin on you all the time, but bro... this is just absolutely not true.
> 
> This is a good read if any of you have the time.
> 
> ...


...it's ok, strife, I wouldn't be upset if you tried to pick on me. But I think if I keep trying here, man, I'll need the fckn helmet  You're missing the point. SUSTAINED, life long happiness not contingent upon vice or device. That is the whole point. So if a device can mimic a sensation, does it also characterize the origin of sensation? No.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 21, 2013)

If faith is so important and necessary, then whats the problem with believing there is no god? Nobody can prove God doesn't exist, therefore believing he isn't real requires a leap of faith. Why devalue this faith while hyping your own? Apparently there is more to this than simple faith. It appears that believers only value faith when it leads to their conclusions. If faith agrees with them, it's divine. if not, it's not worthy of consideration.

For the record I do leave a little room for the possibility of God. It's the same amount of room I leave for the possibility of fairies, gremlins, mermaids and unicorns. You can't prove a negative.


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## bmeat (Jan 21, 2013)

there is a god or a creator


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## tyler.durden (Jan 21, 2013)

^^ Well, that clinches it for me. I'm convinced...


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> If faith is so important and necessary, then whats the problem with believing there is no god? Nobody can prove God doesn't exist, therefore believing he isn't real requires a leap of faith. Why devalue this faith while hyping your own? Apparently there is more to this than simple faith. It appears that believers only value faith when it leads to their conclusions. If faith agrees with them, it's divine. if not, it's not worthy of consideration.
> 
> For the record I do leave a little room for the possibility of God. It's the same amount of room I leave for the possibility of fairies, gremlins, mermaids and unicorns. You can't prove a negative.


You should really do some research into spirits, afterlife experiences, exorcisms and things of that nature before you draw any conclusions.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

Try watching Ghost Adventures, a lot of there episodes are up on you tube i will post one.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

Here is the promised Ghost adventures video. It is a "Best evidences" episode

[video=youtube;Xx00ILi7NtY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx00ILi7NtY[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

Here is another [video=youtube;xcGi4AIst30]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcGi4AIst30[/video]


----------



## Kite High (Jan 21, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Here is the promised Ghost adventures video. It is a "Best evidences" episode
> 
> [video=youtube;Xx00ILi7NtY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx00ILi7NtY[/video]


wtf? I thought all you zealots were rupturing...err I mean rapturing...can't depend on nothing you say


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## cheechako (Jan 21, 2013)

bmeat said:


> there is a god or a creator


But not both.


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## Kite High (Jan 21, 2013)

cheechako said:


> But not both.


absolutely both...for it could create itself god....rotflmfao


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## rooky1985 (Jan 21, 2013)

I don't know about you guys but the "Ghost Adventures" clips sealed the deal for me.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 21, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> If faith is so important and necessary, then whats the problem with believing there is no god? Nobody can prove God doesn't exist, therefore believing he isn't real requires a leap of faith. Why devalue this faith while hyping your own? Apparently there is more to this than simple faith. It appears that believers only value faith when it leads to their conclusions. If faith agrees with them, it's divine. if not, it's not worthy of consideration.
> 
> For the record I do leave a little room for the possibility of God. It's the same amount of room I leave for the possibility of fairies, gremlins, mermaids and unicorns. You can't prove a negative.


...faith comes down )) to an act reverence toward the act of creation itself. Let's consider that the sun and the earth create goodness. Ok, we can agree. Now, let's say that creation also requires brilliant minds. Ok, we can agree. Now, to revere creation is to witness the act of creating goodness. To replicate that 'perfection' is to create a 'perfection' of mind in order to create brilliant works / boons to humanity. So, to negate either would create a lopsided existence. It's obvious to me, at this point anyway, that a lopsided creation benefits no one.

*all the fairy and unicorn ideas are just representations of elemental forms. Which, in effect, illustrate cognitive functions at a vegetive level - and otherwise. Let's say adults are talking about matters that are less than suitable for a youngster. Would we use terms that are clear, or would we wrap our expressions in suitable jargon? Look that those elemental ideas in the same light.

...oh yeah, and this too:


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## bmeat (Jan 21, 2013)

cheechako said:


> But not both.


same thing..no human that walked the earth named jesus.

no cow god.

no communicating bitch on tv talking to spirits. even black magic and witches were a human invention, in the unconsious and consious mind. 

but energy isnt made up like spirit talking bitches, something started the never ending momentum of energy. we will die but the univerese will spin on..no matter how much we pollute it. (the more we pollute though, the more were stuck with the problem. god set that up to. the field that doesnt let the chemical gas pass into the universe. lol. it stays with us! itll eventually all turn into harmless carbon that drifts in space to fuel another big reaction. kind of like planting a seed, you need the right soil life, all the correct minerals and food, and when they meet in one place, they can harbor life.

its just energy..its insible we cant see or communicate with it becuase thats the way its setup..and its the only thing humans cant break with science and it bothers some.

we are all brothers, realted, for sure in the first class of mamalls and maybe even with other species if it was the same energy. who knows they changed into that though because of enviornment..natural selection the weaker ones unfortunately reproduce slower, eveolve slower. that is as a whole or overall, not in immediate community becuase thats thats going up in rate there thats the annoying thing about genetic drift

youre right about the birds though..they were probably just dinsosaurs immediate brother and sister..and the survived cause they flew and found food

but why didnt the big birds survive then? maybe they had bigger belly and couldnt find enough food i dont fucking know


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## Kite High (Jan 21, 2013)

bmeat said:


> same thing..no human that walked the earth named jesus.
> 
> no cow god.
> 
> its just energy..its insible we cant see or communicate with it becuase thats the way its setup..and its the only thing humans cant break with science and it bothers some.


I feel that if it does in fact exist then science will discover it and prove it eventually as science's core is truth


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## bmeat (Jan 21, 2013)

science is a good thing..but we when evolve so fast...we use up rescoures more rapidly, we produce faster, our little girls mature so young because of excess hormone supplementation. fucking monsantos, scotts/mircalegro


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## Kite High (Jan 21, 2013)

bmeat said:


> science is a good thing..but we when evolve so fast...we use up rescoures more rapidly, we produce faster, our little girls mature so young because of excess hormone supplementation. fucking monsantos, scotts/mircalegro


Well I do agree that knowledge is growing much faster rate than its temper...which is wisdom

Just think if all the resources pooled in to death machines were used to elevate mankind...we would be gods ourselves by now...but nope too busy killing ourselves and each other for that


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## bmeat (Jan 21, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Well I do agree that knowledge is growing much faster rate than its temper...which is wisdom
> 
> Just think if all the resources pooled in to death machines were used to elevate mankind...we would be gods ourselves by now...but nope too busy killing ourselves sand each other for that


all you are speaking of the balance, stablitly, life itself homeostatis! whenever you change something, at least one other thing changes. 

and yeah, we invented war amongst our own speices...when you go to less developed countries and look at the animals they eat sleep train live together, and only fight for food..which they share..and they protect each other as best they can from threats. they arent chasing anything else rather than to live, like we are with money..we need it or else we cant adapt..we fail. thats fine and dandy, but then we take it to another extreme, make capruting as much resouce as possible when we have an excess already! too big to control! capatalism GREW TOO FAST 

whenever you get older youre just getting closer to the end unfortunately its a konwn thing..but just take life and apply it to any situation and you can see it

dont worry though, we had to combact that so we invented medicines (synthetics, coulda been fine just using the the medicine growign on the earth that god gave us, but we detraoyed that so ohhh chemicals) so now instead of living to 30 we live to 100.

the monentum of energy

im outta here though im too highed


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## Snowed (Jan 21, 2013)

The soul will live on either way, and what happens is up to your state of peace, is how I view it. We are all under one conciousness.


Good and evil is all within... The world is even concious.. When I was back home and started a grow out with a bad state of mind, did everything right but didn't give my flower the love it deserved they would turn out less quality.. That's just how I believe though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAm-kbzT7xw


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

Here is some of the best evidence to date for life after death :

[video=youtube;pQvQ_WTtdHk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQvQ_WTtdHk[/video]


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## Snowed (Jan 21, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Here is some of the best evidence to date for life after death :
> 
> [video=youtube;pQvQ_WTtdHk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQvQ_WTtdHk[/video]



No doubt in my mind there is life after death, your concious soul moves on.. I just believe most of the world has a false view on it.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

The soul lives on eternally, and there is a creator of the souls of this world and He guides me in all ways. I have built a relationship with Him through reading the Word of God, the Holy Bible.. and through prayer. He just wants you to know that there is an absolute truth and if you keep searching you will find it. Pay attention to the signs and your feelings. Listen to your conscience, as it is guiding you twords Him and His son Jesus.


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## Snowed (Jan 21, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The soul lives on eternally, and there is a creator of the souls of this world and He guides me in all ways. I have built a relationship with Him through reading the Word of God, the Holy Bible.. and through prayer. He just wants you to know that there is an absolute truth and if you keep searching you will find it. Pay attention to the signs and your feelings. Listen to your conscience, as it is guiding you twords Him and His son Jesus.



Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, whatever you want to call it was just a good doing person who learned how to advance himself to Christ Conciousness if you ask me. (You'd have to learn what that means to understand I guess...)

Yes that video I linked explains some of it, but I've read the books that that video is derived from, which is derived from ancient tablets written in cuneiform


But if you are happy believing in what you believe in, that's all that matters.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 21, 2013)

What if we don't have souls? What if it's all made up? I mean, it is a possibility... why rule it out?

Is it because of fear?


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

It's because of hard evidence of the afterlife, watch the afterlife investigations video it's amazing


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

There is no fear once we find the truth of God and Christ Jesus, the only fear is giving in to sin and evil. When you feel that spiritual pressure, or spiritual pain.. that means your doing something wrong, or going the wrong way. The wrath of God.


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## Kite High (Jan 21, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> There is no fear once we find the truth of God and Christ Jesus, the only fear is giving in to sin and evil. When you feel that spiritual pressure, or spiritual pain.. that means your doing something wrong, or going the wrong way. The wrath of God.


go away parrot


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 21, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The soul lives on eternally, and there is a creator of the souls of this world and He guides me in all ways. I have built a relationship with Him through reading the Word of God, the Holy Bible.. and through prayer. He just wants you to know that there is an absolute truth and if you keep searching you will find it. Pay attention to the signs and your feelings. Listen to your conscience, as it is guiding you twords Him and His son Jesus.


And if the consistency of my signs and the guidance of my conscience isnt leading me to Jesus, then it must be leading me to the devil?


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## bmeat (Jan 21, 2013)

Snowed said:


> Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, whatever you want to call it was just a good doing person who learned how to advance himself to Christ Conciousness if you ask me. (You'd have to learn what that means to understand I guess...)
> 
> Yes that video I linked explains some of it, but I've read the books that that video is derived from, which is derived from ancient tablets written in cuneiform
> 
> ...


we should all advance into good people. jesus was just finding his medium, like oldgrowth. dont scorn the people that are trying to truly do good, but you never know this until you meet a person partnership or coporation. 

just believeing in god and jesus doesnt mean shit, god exsists, and there is an energy that old growth talks of, its VERY heavy and present. some call it karma, some call it spirits, its energy thats all i know. 


i didnt like the video. that was just me watching poor people have to cope with faith becuase of the heavy subject at hand. we cant talk to other forms of energy, that i disrespectful and would surpass choas itself if it were to ever happen. light would bend as it does when it hits water and plants would start to tremble becuase of the sudden instability of hoeostatis..and mountains would curmble and you get it


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 21, 2013)

hard evidence? hardly.There is no fear once you accept that there may not be an afterlife afterall and accept the simple truth that you do not know for certain, for everything is an uncertainty in this life as it is throughout existence itself.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And if the consistency of my signs and the guidance of my conscience isnt leading me to Jesus, then it must be leading me to the devil?


I believe you are being guided tword Jesus. I think that is why you found this thread.


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## Snowed (Jan 21, 2013)

bmeat said:


> we should all advance into good people. jesus was just finding his medium, like oldgrowth. dont scorn the people that are trying to truly do good, but you never know this until you meet a person partnership or coporation.
> 
> just believeing in god and jesus doesnt mean shit, god exsists, and there is an energy that old growth talks of, its VERY heavy and present. some call it karma, some call it spirits, its energy thats all i know.
> 
> ...



Exactly.. Energy.. conciousness,whatever you want to call it, same thing to me. you put it very well


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> hard evidence? hardly.There is no fear once you accept that there may not be an afterlife afterall and accept the simple truth that you do not know for certain, for everything is an uncertainty in this life as it is throughout existence itself.


All the evidence you need is in the Afterlife Investigations video i posted just a little way back in this thread


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

bmeat said:


> we should all advance into good people. jesus was just finding his medium, like oldgrowth. dont scorn the people that are trying to truly do good, but you never know this until you meet a person partnership or coporation.
> 
> just believeing in god and jesus doesnt mean shit, god exsists, and there is an energy that old growth talks of, its VERY heavy and present. some call it karma, some call it spirits, its energy thats all i know.
> 
> ...


That heaviness you feel is God saying you are going the wrong way. That is punishment for sin. I get that too when i disobey God. Try saying " I confess, repent, and ask forgiveness for my sins in Jesus name amen" It wont just go away but you will fell better. If you take a hot shower or take a nap you will feel better.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

All of you who are confused, or just searching.. Just pray this prayer so God can begin to work in your life.

Jesus please save me, come into my heart and take over my life in Jesus name amen


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 21, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I believe you are being guided tword Jesus. I think that is why you found this thread.


Sorry man. Couldnt be further from the truth. I think there is truth in almost all religions yet none are the ultimate truth or even close to the ultimate truth. Im on an amazing and loving adventure through life and I dont need Jesus to guide me  And Jesus is completely ok with that.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 21, 2013)

Umm you clearly overlooked what i posted, you wish to convey your assumptions through the video now?Not a very good arguement for your cause I may add.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Sorry man. Couldnt be further from the truth. I think there is truth in almost all religions yet none are the ultimate truth or even close to the ultimate truth. Im on an amazing and loving adventure through life and I dont need Jesus to guide me  And Jesus is completely ok with that.


Follow the well word path of Truth and wisdom that has been tread for over two thousand years, even dating back even into ancient times to the beginning of the Hebrew faith. It is still around and flourishing for a reason, and that is because it is the path to holiness and eternal life. If you choose to go your own way You WILL perish, and burn in hell eternally.
I am an intelligent discerning individual and i know this to be absolutely true.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 21, 2013)

You are crusading like youre on a mission from God.Tell me this if your religion or God is the right one,then why can no other religions see your God and argue over who is truely right?Do innocent childrens souls go to hell when they die without knowing who Jesus is?How do you know?heres the answer.....you do not know.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 21, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> It's because of hard evidence of the afterlife, watch the afterlife investigations video it's amazing


Ok... i want you to know, and hopefully understand... that hearsay, is NOT evidence.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 21, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Follow the well word path of Truth and wisdom that has been tread for over two thousand years, even dating back even into ancient times to the beginning of the Hebrew faith. It is still around and flourishing for a reason, and that is because it is the path to holiness and eternal life. If you choose to go your own way You WILL perish, and burn in hell eternally.
> I am an intelligent discerning individual and i know this to be absolutely true.


If you are truly as intelligent as you think you are, you would see you are sending a message of hate and separation rather than love and unity. World peace is impossible when theres people like you creating hate and separation. This is why we need an apocalypse!


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 21, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> hard evidence? hardly.There is no fear once you accept that there may not be an afterlife afterall and accept the simple truth that you do not know for certain, for everything is an uncertainty in this life as it is throughout existence itself.


I thought this should be said again, hopefully dude reads it. 

That video does not provide any evidence, the only thing it provides is what people say, and what they experienced... this is not evidence, it is called hearsay. 

They could be wrong, and so you could you, have enough courage to step up and admit it.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 21, 2013)

If you had watched the video in it's entirety, you would have seen many instances where the scole experiment produced hard evidence of paranormal activity


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 22, 2013)

This fellow obviously lives in a shell,I hope he can find it within to actualy question what it is he thinks and believes what is so absolute,he may then catch on that it may not be so.Its borderline lunacy IMO, to go on thinking that way when everything around is of the self evident laws that governs each and every one of us at all times,,but I will be no judge unto him.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> If you are truly as intelligent as you think you are, you would see you are sending a message of hate and separation rather than love and unity. World peace is impossible when theres people like you creating hate and separation. This is why we need an apocalypse!


I understand how it comes across. But truth must be presented as it is. Even if it is hard, or negative.. I must warn people about the fire and torture of hell.
If it is real, and i know it is.. I have experienced so much of the demonic and satanic to possibly be dissuaded
I must warn everyone i can so they will not end up there
I will sacrifice everything i have just to reach one individual


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I understand how it comes across. But truth must be presented as it is. Even if it is hard, or negative.. I must warn people about the fire and torture of hell.
> If it is real, and i know it is.. I have experienced so much of the demonic and satanic to possibly be dissuaded
> I must warn everyone i can so they will not end up there
> I will sacrifice everything i have just to reach one individual


Didnt you hear what Lennon said? Love is all you need.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

for you my friend, i wish that was true.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

please at least say the prayer, i can't guarantee it will save you.. 
But there is a chance, and even if it doesn't God will be there to guide you into the Light


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 22, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Didnt you hear what Lennon said? Love is all you need.



that is something I whole heartedly agree with^


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Jesus says in Matthew 7:21-23 &#8220;Not everyone who says to me, &#8216;Lord, Lord,&#8217; will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me on that day, &#8216;Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?&#8217; [SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will tell them plainly, &#8216;I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!&#8217;


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

John 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> for you my friend, i wish that was true.


Hey, even the bible is on my side. God is Love.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Being born of the spirit is praying that prayer, being born of water is getting baptized in water


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

God is love. He loves you so much He sent His only son to die for you, so that believing in Him would make you righteous and worthy of the Heavenly dwelling place of a Holy and perfect God


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

It's your choice.
There are two outcomes
Heaven or Hell
Are you willing to risk it?
I for one am not.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

So I prayed "Jesus save me"
and I got baptized
And i do my best to love God and Love everyone and stay away from sin


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh great,,,quoting scripture,,,,will you at leaste give yourself a chance to the questions i posted previously?Or will you simply indulge in more delusional ignorance.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

That's all God asks,
It's not easy but it is simple


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## Heisenberg (Jan 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I understand how it comes across. But truth must be presented as it is. Even if it is hard, or negative.. I must warn people about the fire and torture of hell.
> If it is real, and i know it is.. I have experienced so much of the demonic and satanic to possibly be dissuaded
> I must warn everyone i can so they will not end up there
> I will sacrifice everything i have just to reach one individual


You are coming a little close to yelling Fire in a crowded theater... Back off the alarmism.

"I'm sure you have some cosmic rationale...
But here you are with your faith and your Peter Pan advice
You have no scars on your face
And you can not handle pressure" - Mr Joel


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I have been moved by God to begin a thread on the way to heaven,
> I pray that many people will be saved from hell by viewing this thread.
> This is not a place to slander Christianity. Please keep it clean.
> 
> ...


Or you could wrap a belt around your neck, throw the trailing end over the hanger bar in a hotel closet and jerk your dick till youre about to pass out.... 







He's Kicking Ass on Angels Now... 
Good Night Sweet Prince.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> So I prayed "Jesus save me"
> and I got baptized
> And i do my best to love God and Love everyone and stay away from sin


That's really good for you, i'm glad you are happy and it gives your life some sense of meaning, and purpose... but i don't think anyone here on RIU agrees with what you are trying to say, so everything you are saying means...well, NOTHING! lol

Oh and if you see god... please tell him i would like to speak with him, i have a lot of questions to ask that sick bastard.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> That's all God asks,
> It's not easy but it is simple




Easy enough,,I quoted and believed as a child and have come to realize during my life that reality is not so easy and this dose not grant you armor or protection from life in the world Oldgrowth,,,its much more complex than you will lend any ear to,thus you are staining yourself with the yolk of ignorance.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> You are crusading like youre on a mission from God.Tell me this if your religion or God is the right one,then why can no other religions see your God and argue over who is truely right?Do innocent childrens souls go to hell when they die without knowing who Jesus is?How do you know?heres the answer.....you do not know.


People choose the path they are on and they choose the God that they want to follow. No one will be condemned for not hearing of Christ, only those who have heard and chose to turn away from Him. Innocent children do not go to hell. I know because i communicate with God. I know because Jesus would not condemn someone for not knowing Him, because i know Jesus Christ's heart and i walk in His ways the best i can. And there are a lot of things I don't know.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> People choose the path they are on and they choose the God that they want to follow. No one will be condemned for not hearing of Christ, only those who have heard and chose to turn away from Him. Innocent children do not go to hell. I know because i communicate with God. I know because Jesus would not condemn someone for not knowing Him, because i know Jesus Christ's heart and i walk in His ways the best i can. And there are a lot of things I don't know.


Why does he care if you believe or not? If you have seen him and spoken to him, will you ask him that please?


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> People choose the path they are on and they choose the God that they want to follow. No one will be condemned for not hearing of Christ, only those who have heard and chose to turn away from Him. Innocent children do not go to hell. I know because i communicate with God. I know because Jesus would not condemn someone for not knowing Him, because i know Jesus Christ's heart and i walk in His ways the best i can. And there are a lot of things I don't know.



Actualy very contradictory to what is written in the book,what about those in the OT who couldnt have possibly heard of Christ? were they all granted access into heaven??Not according to a vengeful and angry God.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

He created you to love Him. 
But you have the choice, 
those who are made to be with God know He is real. 
Whether you choose to love Him or follow Him or not is up to you.

I have not seen God, and though we communicate.. He doesn't exactly "speak" to me
He communicates through others, and through feelings, and signs, and through the Bible.
I feel that He is actually helping me write these responses, as He lives within me.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> Actualy very contradictory to what is written in the book,what about those in the OT who couldnt have possibly heard of Christ? were they all granted access into heaven??Not according to a vengeful and angry God.


If they followed the ten commandments and repented and gave sacrifices when they messed up then the went to heaven.
But Christ is the sacrifice once and for all for our sins, being the son of God.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm going to bed, God bless you


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 22, 2013)

may u find the courage to question your beliefs.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> He created you to love Him.
> But you have the choice,
> those who are made to be with God know He is real.
> Whether you choose to love Him or follow Him or not is up to you.
> ...


Right, but you didn't answer my question. Why does god care whether or not you believe?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 22, 2013)

Seriously man, i think everyone here is waiting for your answer. 

Why does god care whether or not you believe? 

We all want to know...


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Abraham was made righteous by his faith. Faith in God helps make us righteous, therefore making us more acceptable to God.
I have found this life to be quite a test of my ability to be righteous, to do what is right, and to have faith.
I think God is putting us through tests to decide which of us are worthy of His kingdom, and faith is part of that test.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

[h=3]Matthew 22:14[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For many are called, but few are chosen.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Matthew 7:13 New Living Translation
"You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way."


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Many Christians will tell you all you have to do to go to heaven is say Jesus save me, but upon studying the bible i have found there are requirements. And it seems to not be as easy as popularly portrayed.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Acknowledge and believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, is the Son of God and died for your sins, being resurrected on the third day.
Get baptized in water, 
And try to live a righteous life.

Obviously it is impossible to my knowledge to live completely free from sin.
The pursuit of living a sinless life will be rewarded and gets easier over time.

Most Christians will feed you an easy path to salvation, but i study God's Word and i am taking no chances of having anything other that sound doctrine.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

As i stated in Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who calls out to me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter."


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

To know the will of God one must study His word.
God says that many people perish for lack of knowledge.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Also, prayer to God to help us in our endeavors to reach heaven and to live a righteous life will be answered. And God is always with you and guiding you from inside your being and from the outside to help you do His will.

Sometimes it takes time and patience to learn to listen to the utterances and chastisements of The Holy One.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 22, 2013)

Thread temporarily locked for spamming


*reopened. You are welcome to discuss your beliefs here but please refrain from quickfire posting.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 22, 2013)

Oldgrowth, you still didn't answer my question, it is a simple question.

Why does god care whether or not we believe?

Please answer my question as simply as you can. Do not quote the bible, just answer the question.


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## bmeat (Jan 22, 2013)

he doesnt..he wants us to live..not worship


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 22, 2013)

bmeat said:


> he doesnt..he wants us to live..not worship


Not according to Oldgrowth... for which my question still stands.

*Why does god care whether or not we believe?

Please answer my question as simply as you can. Do not quote the bible, just answer the question. *


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

I can give you my opinion, but i have no facts for you.
It is His pleasure to conceal things from us,
and His ways are mysterious.
I truly wish i could just ask God why he built his system upon faith,
And receive a spoken word concrete answer for you.
but alas.. I cannot.

I believe it's just a beautiful test.
I know this isn't a great answer, but my mind is finite, as well as my understanding of the Creator.

I will continue to research this, and hopefully give you a better answer.


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## 420IAMthatIAM (Jan 22, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Oldgrowth, you still didn't answer my question, it is a simple question.
> 
> Why does god care whether or not we believe?
> 
> Please answer my question as simply as you can. Do not quote the bible, just answer the question.


actually GOD doesn't care... because he made some people not to believe... just as he made some people to believe


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

God certainly cares. He commanded us to go out and spread the gospel to all nations.
We have to bear this corrupt world and satan until we tell everyone about Jesus.
He wants to give everyone the chance to believe.

But you are right about one thing 420IAMthatIAM
Some people are weeds planted in God's field and will be burned in the end.

[h=3]Matthew 13:24-43[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]The Parable of the Weeds[/h][SUP]24 [/SUP]Jesus told them another parable: &#8220;The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. [SUP]26 [/SUP]When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]&#8220;The owner&#8217;s servants came to him and said, &#8216;Sir, didn&#8217;t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?&#8217;
[SUP]28 [/SUP]&#8220;&#8216;An enemy did this,&#8217; he replied.
&#8220;The servants asked him, &#8216;Do you want us to go and pull them up?&#8217;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]&#8220;&#8216;No,&#8217; he answered, &#8216;because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.&#8217;&#8221;
[h=3]The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast[/h][SUP]31 [/SUP]He told them another parable: &#8220;The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.&#8221;
[SUP]33 [/SUP]He told them still another parable: &#8220;The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds[SUP][a][/SUP] of flour until it worked all through the dough.&#8221;
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. [SUP]35 [/SUP]So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:
&#8220;I will open my mouth in parables,
I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.&#8221;[SUP][b][/SUP]

[h=3]The Parable of the Weeds Explained[/h][SUP]36 [/SUP]Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, &#8220;Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.&#8221;
[SUP]37 [/SUP]He answered, &#8220;The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. [SUP]38 [/SUP]The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, [SUP]39 [/SUP]and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]&#8220;As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. [SUP]42 [/SUP]They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Asking me to explain why God wants us to believe in Him, without using God's Word the Holy Bible is like asking me to explain something about the buddha without using the Dharma or buddhas teachings.

Why God wants something is a very hard question to answer, as I am of flesh and God is of Spirit.


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## 420IAMthatIAM (Jan 22, 2013)

ok oldGrowth420 this could go on forever but I will make it short first of all I have been where you are believe in jesus or die in your sins.but as time passed I became open minded the first that I learned is that his name is not jesus not in Hebrew or any other language jeshua and those other Hebrew words that people use to say is Hebrew for jesus is false those words are for Joshua... isaiah.7:14 tells you plainly he that would be born of avirgin would be named Immanuel. no if and buts about it.since I stopped using that name jesus and began to learn straight from creator life for me is very clear as is truth.all religions have bits of truth in them but none of are the truth its up to us that is each man to find those bits of truth and from them enjoy life and god and the company of mankindyou have to look at the whole picture.this is a link to my youtube channel watch this video #6 where did religions come from then read gen.chapter11 with a open heart...and remember GOD is GOD and he can do what he pleases that's what makes him GOD http://youtu.be/X1sgTKbt124


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Immanuel is one with YHWH. Jesus and Immanuel are the same person. God with us.
I'm glad you have found the Father, now it is time for you to find His Son.
Don't lead people astray with your false teachings.
Stay on the narrow path and follow the Word of God.


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## mindphuk (Jan 22, 2013)

420IAMthatIAM said:


> ok oldGrowth420 this could go on forever but I will make it short first of all I have been where you are believe in jesus or die in your sins.but as time passed I became open minded the first that I learned is that his name is not jesus not in Hebrew or any other language jeshua and those other Hebrew words that people use to say is Hebrew for jesus is false those words are for Joshua... isaiah.7:14 tells you plainly he that would be born of avirgin would be named Immanuel. no if and buts about it.since I stopped using that name jesus and began to learn straight from creator life for me is very clear as is truth.all religions have bits of truth in them but none of are the truth its up to us that is each man to find those bits of truth and from them enjoy life and god and the company of mankindyou have to look at the whole picture.this is a link to my youtube channel watch this video #6 where did religions come from then read gen.chapter11 with a open heart...and remember GOD is GOD and he can do what he pleases that's what makes him GOD http://youtu.be/X1sgTKbt124


Isaiah 7 was not a messianic prophecy. It is a contemporary prophecy for King Ahaz. The original Hebrew word does not mean virgin, but maiden, or young woman. Also, the Hebrew uses the definite article (&#8220;the"). It is likely meant to indicate that Isaiah pointed to a woman who was present at the scene of the prophet&#8217;s interview with Ahaz. Isaiah would not be referring to a future virgin conceiving the messiah in this way.


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## Kite High (Jan 22, 2013)

420IAMthatIAM said:


> ok oldGrowth420 this could go on forever but I will make it short first of all I have been where you are believe in jesus or die in your sins.but as time passed I became open minded the first that I learned is that his name is not jesus not in Hebrew or any other language jeshua and those other Hebrew words that people use to say is Hebrew for jesus is false those words are for Joshua... isaiah.7:14 tells you plainly he that would be born of avirgin would be named Immanuel. no if and buts about it.since I stopped using that name jesus and began to learn straight from creator life for me is very clear as is truth.all religions have bits of truth in them but none of are the truth its up to us that is each man to find those bits of truth and from them enjoy life and god and the company of mankindyou have to look at the whole picture.this is a link to my youtube channel watch this video #6 where did religions come from then read gen.chapter11 with a open heart...and remember GOD is GOD and he can do what he pleases that's what makes him GOD http://youtu.be/X1sgTKbt124


The Name is Yahweh...messiah's name is Yahshua


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Prophecy of Jesus Christ, Immanuel's life written about 700 years before his life.

[h=3]Isaiah 53[/h]New International Version (NIV)

53 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By oppression[SUP][a][/SUP] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet it was the Lord&#8217;s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[SUP][c][/SUP] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[SUP][d][/SUP] and be satisfied[SUP][e][/SUP];
by his knowledge[SUP][f][/SUP] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[SUP][g][/SUP]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[SUP][h][/SUP]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 23, 2013)

Man is raised from the dead by Christian doctor
[video=youtube;RRoAcfzytCA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRoAcfzytCA[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 23, 2013)

This needs to go here as well. 
Man dies, comes back to life, goes to heaven and to hell.

[video=youtube;xRSjzY0s0SM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSjzY0s0SM[/video]


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## tyler.durden (Jan 23, 2013)

I think I'm beginning to see what you're talking about, OG. This is a good thread, but it could use more posting of scripture and YT videos...


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## Snowed (Jan 23, 2013)

The brain is a very powerful thing....


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 23, 2013)

Actually, the truth of the matter is... that when god was battling satan, satan actually won. From that time on satan has been filling peoples minds with faith... because he knows that no matter how much faith someone has, it still leaves them empty and their questions unanswered which fills satan with pleasure. 

We are all being deceived by satan, and he laughs at our discomfort and fear while living in this imaginary world, living in hell... we will all die and return back to hell.

Criminals together. We're in hell, my little friend, and there's never any mistake there. People are not damned for nothing.

You are a fool if you think god won the battle, take a good fucking look around, god wouldn't allow any of this... but satan... this is satan's play thing.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 23, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Actually, the truth of the matter is... that when god was battling satan, satan actually won. From that time on satan has been filling peoples minds with faith... because he knows that no matter how much faith someone has, it still leaves them empty and their questions unanswered which fills satan with pleasure.
> 
> We are all being deceived by satan, and he laughs at our discomfort and fear while living in this imaginary world, living in hell... we will all die and return back to hell.
> 
> ...


Satan is indeed prince of this world,
But he was defeated at the cross by the sacrifice of Christ Jesus.
When Christ return's He will be thrown into hell.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I can feel inside the benefits of following God's will laid out for me in the Holy Bible.
My spirit feels more holy and light,
the whites of my eyes shine with life.
And i have a peace that cannot be shaken.
The less i sin the better i feel, and i know if i continue on this path i will reach Heaven.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 23, 2013)

Snowed said:


> The brain is a very powerful thing....


The brain cannot raise people from the dead.


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## tyler.durden (Jan 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The brain cannot raise people from the dead.


This guy begs to differ...


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 23, 2013)

Lol nice. I can't stop starring at his mouth. that's some rad makeup. or great cgi.


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## 420IAMthatIAM (Jan 23, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Isaiah 7 was not a messianic prophecy. It is a contemporary prophecy for King Ahaz. The original Hebrew word does not mean virgin, but maiden, or young woman. Also, the Hebrew uses the definite article (the"). It is likely meant to indicate that Isaiah pointed to a woman who was present at the scene of the prophets interview with Ahaz. Isaiah would not be referring to a future virgin conceiving the messiah in this way.


Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


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## mindphuk (Jan 23, 2013)

420IAMthatIAM said:


> Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
> Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


What are you trying to say? Bible quotes are meaningless without your editorializing. 

It is likely the non-Hebrew speaking author of Matthew used the Greek translation of Isaiah in the Septuagint (LXX) where the word parthenos was used which actually does mean virgin. His misapplication of the prophecy intended for King Ahaz in no way validates your belief that Isaiah 7:14 was a messianic prophecy. 
You don't find it odd that the Gospel of Mark, which Matthew borrows heavily from, says absolutely nothing about Mary being a virgin? Why would something so important be left out? Is it possible that Matthew made the decision that Jesus should be born to a virgin like many of the other man-gods he was familiar with, including Caesar himself? So in order to find support for his personal belief, he looked to and found support in Isaiah, even though it makes absolutely no sense to offer a sign for King Ahaz, 700 years after he was dead!


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## 420IAMthatIAM (Jan 23, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> What are you trying to say? Bible quotes are meaningless without your editorializing.
> 
> It is likely the non-Hebrew speaking author of Matthew used the Greek translation of Isaiah in the Septuagint (LXX) where the word parthenos was used which actually does mean virgin. His misapplication of the prophecy intended for King Ahaz in no way validates your belief that Isaiah 7:14 was a messianic prophecy.
> You don't find it odd that the Gospel of Mark, which Matthew borrows heavily from, says absolutely nothing about Mary being a virgin? Why would something so important be left out? Is it possible that Matthew made the decision that Jesus should be born to a virgin like many of the other man-gods he was familiar with, including Caesar himself? So in order to find support for his personal belief, he looked to and found support in Isaiah, even though it makes absolutely no sense to offer a sign for King Ahaz, 700 years after he was dead!


oh I am sorry I thought you were a believer forget what I said I not on this planet to judge or to convince nonbelievers of anything, my apologies.


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## mindphuk (Jan 23, 2013)

420IAMthatIAM said:


> oh I am sorry I thought you were a believer forget what I said I not on this planet to judge or to convince nonbelievers of anything, my apologies.


I am not inquiring to be convinced, I am interested in your answers as to how you can reconcile your beliefs with the facts. Of course, my guess is that you were unaware of the actual context of Isaiah 7 and likewise the author of Matthew's misapplication. However, now that you have been informed, are you not interested in discussing it?

Calling me an nonbeliever is also irrelevant. Everything I just posted to you comes from a Jewish perspective/literal Hebrew reading of the Tanakh. My personal belief or non-belief is inconsequential to your error in accepting Isaiah 7:14 as a Messianic prophecy.


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## Wilksey (Jan 23, 2013)

You don't "get" to "heaven", you MAKE "heaven". HERE. On THIS particular rock. Just as you make "hell".

Like the individual, BOTH are unique, and one mans' "heaven" is another mans' "hell". I have seen both, and I imagine I am not alone. 

The birds hanging out in my back yard, the hawks soaring in the sky above, the cows grazing in the pasture behind my development, some delicious home grown cannabis, a bunch of other thriving pepper plants, and the fact that I'm not worried about any imminent encounters with a few hundred pounds of high explosives, tells me that I am currently in heaven.

It's very nice.


Good luck to you regardless, and I hope you find what you're looking for...


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 23, 2013)

My hope is that people would wake up, and find God before they end up stuck with the decisions they made burning and being tortured forever.


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## mindphuk (Jan 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> My hope is that people would wake up, and find God before they end up stuck with the decisions they made burning and being tortured forever.


you wouldn't think that such a great, loving, powerful god would choose such cryptic and difficult ways to 'find' him. If god made us and gave us reason and intellect and then requires us to abandon those traits and instead relies on indoctrination of children and blind faith, the antithesis of reason, it makes me wonder how important it is to him that we actually believe.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 23, 2013)

It's important, and it's planted within you to believe.. Otherwise you wouldn't question whether you did or not.. 
No one is going to force you to believe or follow God, not even God Himself.
He has me spending literally nearly all of my day everyday spreading His message, so it must be important to Him.
He loves me so much, i know He wants me to be out enjoying my life and goofing off...
But instead i work night and day bringing in the lost sheep.
As is His perfect will.
Praise God.


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 24, 2013)

_&#8220;The Tuatha Dé Danann of the precious jewels, 
Where did they find learning?
They came upon perfect wisdom
In druidism (and) in deviltry.

Fair Iardanel, a prophet of excellence,
Son of Nemed, son of Agnoman,
Had as a foolish offspring the active Beothach,
Who was a hero of cleaving, full of wonders.

The children of Beothach, &#8212;-long-lived their fame-&#8212; 
The host of valiant heroes came,
After sorrow and after great sadness,
To Lochlann with all of their slips.

Four cities,-&#8212;just their renown-&#8212;
They held in sway with great strength.
On this account they passionately made competition
For learning their genuine wisdom.

Failias and bright Gorias,
Findias (and) Murias of great prowess,
From whichi battles were won outside,
(Were) the names of the chief cities.

Morfis and noble Erus,
Uscias and Semiath, ever-fierce,
To name them,&#8212;-a discourse of need--
(These were) the names of the sages of nehle wisdom.

Morfis (was) the poet of Failias itself,
In Gorias (was) Esrus of keen desires),
Semiath (was) in Murias, the fortress of pinnacles,
(And) Uscias (was) the fair seer of Findias.

Four presents (were fetched) with them hither,
By the nobles of the Tuatha DO Danann:
A sword, a stone, a caldron of worth,
(And) a spear for the death of great champions.

From Failias (came) hither the Lia Fail,
Which shouted under the kings of Ireland.
The sword in the hand of the nimble Lug
From Gorias (it was procured), -&#8212; a choice of vast riches.

From far-away Findias over the sea
Was brought the deadly spear of Nuada.
From Murias (was conveyed) a huge and mighty treasure,
The caldron of the Dagda of lofty deeds.

The King of Heaven, the King of feeble men,
May he protect me, the King of royal parts,
The Being in whom is the endurance of spectres,
And the strength of the gentle race.&#8221;_

Tuatha Dé Danann.

Nuff Said.


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## mindphuk (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> It's important, and it's planted within you to believe.. Otherwise you wouldn't question whether you did or not..


Ah, no. It seems a very human trait to believe in something, but having a feeling there is something greater than us does not mean that there is, and it certainly doesn't mean that it is the desert tribal god anymore than it means that it is Zeus or Shiva. 


> No one is going to force you to believe or follow God, not even God Himself.


I made no mention of being forced to believe. My point was that if there is a being that WANTS us to believe, your particular god makes it quite difficult to do so if you are the type of person that values reason, logic and evidence -- traits he supposedly gave us.


> He has me spending literally nearly all of my day everyday spreading His message, so it must be important to Him.


So if there really isn't a god and it is all in your mind, it certainly seems to me to be a waste of a person's time and energy to spend so much of it spreading a message. 


> He loves me so much, i know He wants me to be out enjoying my life and goofing off...
> But instead i work night and day bringing in the lost sheep.
> As is His perfect will.
> Praise God.


Interesting how you claim that you KNOW things about this god because of how he communicates to you but when asked for specifics, he suddenly becomes a mystery to you. EVERYONE has a god voice in their head. There is absolutely no way to distinguish between our internal dialogue that is completely a function of human neurology and an outside voice coming from a god. 
Here's a question since you seem to KNOW. If this god of yours suddenly wanted you to kill your son (or another family member), would you do it? If you wouldn't do it, then you must not believe that the 'voice' is god, if you will, then you have no place in society and should be locked up.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 24, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Ah, no. It seems a very human trait to believe in something, but having a feeling there is something greater than us does not mean that there is, and it certainly doesn't mean that it is the desert tribal god anymore than it means that it is Zeus or Shiva.


...IAO-Zeus (Jesus). Just my 3¢


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## ginjawarrior (Jan 24, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...IAO-Zeus (Jesus). Just my 3¢


no just no


[h=3]The twelve major gods[/h] 
Greek nameRoman nameImageFunctions and attributesZeusJupiterKing of the gods and ruler of Mount Olympus; god of the sky and thunder. Youngest child of the Titans Cronus and Rhea. Symbols include the thunderbolt, eagle, oak tree, scepter and scales. Brother and husband of Hera, although he had many lovers. Brother of Poseidon and Hades.HeraJunoQueen of the gods and the goddess of marriage and family. Symbols include the peacock, pomegranate, crown, cuckoo, lion and cow. Youngest daughter of Cronus and Rhea. Wife and sister of Zeus. Being the goddess of marriage, she frequently tried to get revenge on Zeus' lovers and their children.PoseidonNeptuneGod of the seas, earthquakes and horses. Symbols include the horse, bull, dolphin and trident. Middle son of Cronus and Rhea. Brother of Zeus and Hades. Married to the Nereid Amphitrite, although, like most male Greek Gods, he had many lovers.DemeterCeresGoddess of fertility, agriculture, nature, and the seasons. Symbols include the poppy, wheat, torch, and pig. Middle daughter of Cronus and Rhea. Her Latin name, Ceres, gave us the word "cereal".DionysusBacchusGod of wine, celebrations and ecstasy. Patron god of the art of theatre. Symbols include the grapevine, ivy, cup, tiger, panther, leopard, dolphin and goat. Son of Zeus and the mortal Theban princess Semele. Married to the Cretan princess Ariadne. The youngest Olympian, as well as the only one to have a mortal mother.ApolloApollo (or Phoebus)[SUP][A][/SUP]God of light, knowledge, music, poetry, prophecy and archery. Son of Zeus and Leto. Symbols include the sun, lyre, bow and arrow, raven, dolphin, wolf, swan and mouse. Twin brother of Artemis.ArtemisDianaGoddess of the hunt, virginity, childbirth, archery, the moon, and all animals. Symbols include the moon, deer, hound, she-bear, snake, cypress tree and bow and arrow. Daughter of Zeus and Leto and twin sister of Apollo.HermesMercuryMessenger of the gods; god of commerce and thieves. Symbols include the caduceus (staff entwined with two snakes), winged sandals and cap, stork and tortoise (whose shell he used to invent the lyre). Son of Zeus and the nymph Maia. The second-youngest Olympian, just older than Dionysus. He married Dryope, the daughter of Dryops, and their son Pan became the god of nature, lord of the satyrs, inventor of the panpipes and comrade of Dionysus.AthenaMinervaVirgin goddess of wisdom, handicrafts, defense and strategic warfare. Symbols include the owl and the olive tree. Daughter of Zeus and the Oceanid Metis, she rose from her father's head fully grown and in full battle armor after he swallowed her mother.AresMarsGod of war, violence and bloodshed. Symbols include the boar, serpent, dog, vulture, spear and shield. Son of Zeus and Hera, all the other gods (except Aphrodite) despised him. His Latin name, Mars, gave us the word "martial."AphroditeVenusGoddess of love, beauty, and desire. Symbols include the dove, bird, apple, bee, swan, myrtle and rose. Daughter of Zeus and the Oceanid Dione, or perhaps born from the sea foam after Uranus' semen dripped into the sea after being castrated by his youngest son Cronus who then threw his father's genitals into the sea. Married to Hephaestus, although she had many adulterous affairs, most notably with Ares. Her name gave us the word "aphrodisiac", while her Latin name gave us the word "venereal".[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Olympians#endnote_gen.5E*[/SUP]*
*
*
*
[TR]
[TD]Hephaestus[/TD]
[TD]Vulcan[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Master blacksmith and craftsman of the gods; god of fire and the forge. Symbols include fire, anvil, axe, donkey, hammer, tongs and quail. Son of Hera, either by Zeus or alone. Married to Aphrodite, though unlike most divine husbands, he was rarely ever licentious. His Latin name, Vulcan, gave us the word "volcano."[/TD]
[/TR]
**


the biblical god 

There are a few, my friend. 
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the 
LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside 
me there is no God." 
Isaiah 44:6, KJV 

"Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from 
that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. 
Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not 
any." 
Isaiah 44:8, KJV 

"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God 
beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" 
Isaiah 45:5, KJV 

"Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel 
together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath 
told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no 
God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none 
beside me." 
Isaiah 45:21, KJV 

"Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou 
shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside 
me." 
Hosea 13:4, KJV*


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 24, 2013)

...hey, easy with the no's!  Zeus holding a lightning bolt. Hmm, ok, we know that any reference to lightning, or light, is a matter of consciousness. The Christ, which is an energy (or a consciousness of God) is the lightning of man's generative functions. Yes (yes! oh yes!)


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## ginjawarrior (Jan 24, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...hey, easy with the no's!  Zeus holding a lightning bolt. Hmm, ok, since we know that any reference to lightning, or light, is a matter of consciousness. So, Christ, which is an energy, or a consciousness of God, is the lightning of man's generative functions. Yes (yes! oh yes!)


biblical god = monotheism = 1 god (off in the sky somewhere)(separated from you)
greek gods = polytheism = group of gods (off in the sky on mount olympus)(separated from you)


"god is my consciousness" = pantheism = god is inside you (is neither of the above and zeus holding a pretty lighting bolt doesnt change that)


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 24, 2013)

ginjawarrior said:


> biblical god = monotheism = 1 god (off in the sky somewhere)(separated from you)
> greek gods = polytheism = group of gods (off in the sky on mount olympus)(separated from you)
> 
> 
> "god is my consciousness" = pantheism = god is inside you (is neither of the above and zeus holding a pretty lighting bolt doesnt change that)


...sorry, I won't get caught up in that. Gotta go to work but interested in writing this out. It is said that by sex we are born, and that by sex we will pass on. Alpha and Omega.

...go to 'Genesis', the source. "There is only one theism", and it is that which generates. Otherwise, would we be here talking about this stuff? No. So, let's 'start' there - the rest is man's own complication - I'm sure we can agree there.

"There is only one theism" is the one that creates us. It is universal, not specific to any one person or thing. "universal"


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## ginjawarrior (Jan 24, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...sorry, I won't get caught up in that. Gotta go to work but interested in writing this out. It is said that by sex we are born, and that by sex we will pass on. Alpha and Omega.
> 
> ...go to 'Genesis', the source. "There is only one theism", and it is that which generates. Otherwise, would we be here talking about this stuff? No. So, let's 'start' there - the rest is man's own complication - I'm sure we can agree there.
> 
> "There is only one theism" is the one that creates us. It is universal, not specific to any one person or thing. "universal"


i've tried to parse your meaning and the best i've got is your contending: 

sex= god and the proof of that is that we're having this conversation?

taking that thought and running with it back to the "genesis" as you request

who had the first fuck that started this "theism"?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 24, 2013)

It's funny to me, going through and reading all of this stuff. What some people refuse to acknowledge or insist on believing. It's funny, most just try to argue their points, very few of us here actually try to empathize and look at things from a different perspective, to try to understand how someone else may feel, or believe... and why. 

We are all afraid, that is something all of us has to get used to... we can live with it or pretend it isn't there, neither is right or wrong... it is merely how we all cope with trying understand an existence that none of us can fully understand. 

We all either believe in something or we don't, and i hope you would all be able to sit back, and think about the reason why this is. Whether we believe in an afterlife or none, it gives us comfort... we can pretend to know something we really don't know. One of the hardest things we can do as human animals when thinking about the most important questions, the questions that would really MEAN something... is to admit that we don't know, or that we are unsure... because the fear comes back. 

Fuck yeah i'm afraid, i'm just as afraid than anyone else in the world when we take away our security blankets of faith and belief... but i don't let that fear dictate the way i am going to think, or make me pretend that my beliefs are 100% true when they could be wrong.

I don't know what happens when you die, or if there is or isn't a god, im just a fucking human animal, a really smart ape, just as scared as the rest of you because no one can give you the answers, YOU can't even give you the answers... the only way to have the answers that would actually MEAN something is to pretend you have them...

But that doesn't quite fix the problem now does it?

Because the secret is out in the open, because anyone who is honest with themselves about everything... we know why you hold onto the beliefs you do, because you are scared... but get this, it's ok... we are scared too.



And that is exactly why it's good to talk about this shit, because even if all of us ARE scared... it makes us less scared knowing that we are all in this together.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

When I'm afraid, i ask Jesus to come and speak truth into me.. And i find that it gives me a supernatural peace.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

If you have voices speaking to you, they might be demons.
If i audibly heard God's voice telling me to do something, and He gave me a clear sign to let me know it was Him.. I would surely obey Him.

My faith is apologetic, and based on evidence i gather daily.
I know that my God is real because he helps me everyday, and I can feel it.
Blind faith is beautiful, but my own faith is based on experience.

Praise God for that, it's so wonderful not to have to fear.


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 24, 2013)

Here is the Visit of the king of Thessaly&#8217;s son Cael an iarainn to Ireland, and how unfortunately his walking-match turned out with him; or according to some authorities, the Adventure of the Carle of the Drab Coat.
_From Egerton MS 154
Translated by Standish O'Grady. Silva Gaedelica, V.II._​ It was a day of gathering and of conference constituted by Finn son of Cumall son of Art son of Trenmor grandson of Baeiscne, with the seven battalions of the reserve and seven of the regular Fianna, at the Hill of Edar son of Edgaeth; and as they threw an eye over the sea and great main they saw a roomy and a gallant ship that upon the waters bore right down for them, from the eastward and under a press of sail. She was fitted out as though for war and contention; and they had not long to wait before they marked a tall, bellicose, impetuously valiant _ óglaech_ rise by means of his javelins&#8217; stavesor of his spears&#8217; shafts, and so attain both his soles&#8217; width of the white- sanded beach. A polished and most comely lorica he had on; an armature that was solid and infrangible surrounded him; his handsome red shield surmounted his shoulder, and on his head was a hard helmet; at his left side a sword, wide-grooved, straight in the blade; in his two fists he held a pair of thick-shafted spears, unburnished but sharp; a becoming mantle of scarlet hung on his shoulders, with a brooch of the burnt gold on his broad chest.

Thus equipped then, and in this fashion, he came into the presence of Finn and of the Fianna; and Finn spoke to him, saying: &#8220;of the whole world&#8217;s bloods, noble or ignoble, who art thou, warrior; or out of which airt of the four art come to us?" &#8220;_Cael an iarainn_ is my name, the king of Thessaly&#8217;s son; and in all that which (since I left my own land and up to this present) I have perambulated of the globe, I have not left either isle or island but I have brought under tribute of my sword and under my own hand. What now I desire therefore is to carry off the universal tribute and capital power of Ireland.&#8221; Conan said: &#8220;we never have seen _laech_, nor heard of warrior, but a man to turn him would be found in Ireland.&#8221; &#8220;Conan,&#8221; answered Cael, &#8220;in thine utterance find I nought else than that of a fool or gaby; for were all they that during these seven years past are dead of the Fianna added now to those that yet live of them, I would in one single day treat them all to the grievousness of death and of life curtailed. But I will do a thing which ye will esteem a condition easier than that: if among the whole of you ye find one only laeck that in running, or in single fight, or in wrestling shall get the better of me, no more worry nor trouble will I inflict on you, but will get me gone back to my own land again:&#8217; &#8220;Why now,&#8221; said Finn, &#8220;the runner that we have: Caeilte mac Ronan to wit, he at this moment is not at home; and were he here he would have a run with thee; but if, warrior, thou be a one that will tarry with the Fianna, and with them make friendship and observe the same, while I go to Tara of the Kings to fetch Caeilte whom if I find not there I shall to a certainty get in Keshcorran of the Fianna then do so.&#8221; &#8220;So be it done,&#8221; Cael assented.

Then Finn started on the road, and had not gone far when he happened on an intricate gloomy wood, the diameter of which a deeply scooped out hollow way traversed throughout. Into this forest he had not penetrated any distance before he met a diabolical-looking being of evil aspect, an irrational wild monster of a yellow-complexioned thick-boned giant having on him a long drab coat down to the calves of his two legs, either of which Under him as they carried the great fellow&#8217;s ill-assorted body was like the mast of some ship of largest rate; like the side of a wide-wombed boat was each brogue of the two that garnished his knobbed feet armed with curved nails; the drab coat that invested him had to it a pewter platter&#8217;s width of a skirt-trimming consisting in a yellow stucco of mud, and this at every step that he took would flap against the calf of one leg so as to knock out of it a report that could be heard half-a-mile of country away; while every time that he lifted a foot, there used half-a-barrel of mire to squirt upwards to his buttocks and even over his entire yellow-tinted person. Finn fell to consider the great man for a length of time (for never before had he seen his like) and walked still on his way till the other spoke, saying: &#8220;what is this course of trudging or wandering that is befallen thee to make, Finn son of Cumall, all alone and solitary without a man of Ireland&#8217;s Fianna by thee?" &#8220;Such,&#8221; replied Finn, &#8220;is the measure of my perplexity and trouble that I cannot frame to tell thee that nor, though I could, would it do me any good whatsoever.&#8221; &#8220;Unless to me thou do explain the matter, thou wilt for ever suffer the damage and detriment of it [i.e. of thy reticence].&#8221; &#8220;Well then,&#8221; Finn began, &#8220;if I must tell it thee, know it to be the king of Thessaly&#8217;s son _Cael an iarainn_ that yesterday at noon came in at Ben-Edar, looking to acquire for himself the rent and rule of all Ireland unless only that some one _ laech_ I may find who in running, in single combat or at wrestling, shall overcome him.&#8221; &#8220;And what would ye do?&#8220; the big one enquired: &#8220;for I know him well, and there is not a single thing asserted by him but he is able to fulfil: upon the Fianna universally he would inflict slaughter of men and virile _ óglaechs_.&#8221; Finn went on: &#8220;I would proceed to Tara of the Kings to fetch Caeilte, whom if I find not there I shall undoubtedly get in Keshcorann of the Fianna, in order that of yon warrior he may win a running match.&#8221; &#8220;Verily then,&#8221; said the big fellow, &#8220;thou art but &#8216;a kingdomless man&#8217; if Caeilte son of Ronan be thy grand resource with which to scare away the other.&#8221; &#8220;Then indeed I know not what I shall do,&#8221; said Finn. &#8220;But I do,&#8221; quoth the great man: &#8220;wouldst thou but put up with me, of that hero I would upon my oath win a running wager.&#8221; Finn rejoined: &#8220;I esteem that in carrying thy coat and huge brogues for a single half-mile of country thou hast thine utmost endeavour to perform, and not to embark in a running bet with that _laech_.&#8221; &#8220;By all that&#8217;s positive, unless I win it of him not a man of all Ireland will bring it off.&#8221; &#8220;So be it done,&#8221; consented Finn: &#8220;but what is thy name?" and he made answer: &#8220;my name is _ bodach an chóta lachtna_ or &#8216;the carle of the drab coat.&#8221;&#8217;

Then Finn and the Carle returned back again, nor concerning their travel and wayfaring is anything told us until they reached Ben-Edar.

There Ireland&#8217;s Fianna in their numbers gathered about the big man, for never before had they seen his like; _ Cael an iarainn_ too came upon the ground, and enquired whether Finn had brought a man to run with him. Finn answered that he had, and exhibited his man; but when Cael had seen the Carle he objected that to all eternity he would not run with any such greasy _bodach_. At this hearing the latter emitted a coarse burst of horse-laughter, saying: &#8220;in respect of me thou art deceived, warrior; acquaint me therefore with the length of course that thou wouldst run, the which if I run not with thee, and more too if such be thy pleasure, thine it shall be to take the stakes.&#8221; &#8220;I care not,&#8221; rejoined Cael, &#8220;to have in front of me a course of less than three score miles.&#8221; &#8220;&#8216;Tis well as it happens,&#8221; said the Cane: &#8220;three score miles exactly they are from Ben-Edar to Slieveluachra of Munster.&#8221; &#8220;So be it done,&#8221; Cael assented. &#8220;Well then,&#8221; suggested the _bodach_, &#8220;the right thing for us to do is to proceed westwards to Slieveluachra to begin with, and there to put up to-night, so that to-morrow we may be ready for our start and our walk.&#8221;

Those two good _laech_s (_Cael an iarainn_ the king of Thessaly&#8217;s son namely, and the Carle of the drab coat) set out accordingly, - and of their journey there is not any record until as the sun went under they reached Slieveluachra of Munster. &#8220;Cael,&#8221; said the other then, &#8220;it behoves us to knock up some kind of dwelling, whether house or hut, to have over our heads.&#8221; But Cael - retorted: &#8220;by all that&#8217;s certain, I never will set about building a house on Slieveluachra for the sake of passing one night there, considering that I have no desire at all ever during the whole - Course of my life to return thither.&#8221; &#8220;So be it,&#8221; quoth the _bodach_: &#8220;but if I can manage to put up the like, &#8216;tis far enough away outside of it will be any that shall not have given his help to make it.&#8221;

The Carle entered then into the nearest darkling and intricate wood, where he never stayed nor rested till he had tied up four-and-twenty couples of gross timber; and these, along with their complement of rafters from the same wood and of fresh rushes of the mountain, he brought in that one load and so erected a house long and wide, all thatched and warm. Of the forest&#8217;s sticks both green and dry he on that lodging&#8217;s floor made up a vast bonfire, and a second time addressed Cael: &#8220;if thou be a man to come with me and in these woods seek some game or other-&#8221; &#8216;I understand nothing about it,&#8221; answered Cael: &#8220;and if I did, &#8216;tis not to second the like of thee would go.&#8221; 

Again the bodach sought the nearest wood&#8217;s recesses, into which he was not penetrated far when he roused a drove of wild swine; the stoutest boar that he saw he cut off from the rest and, along every track, through every covert, followed until by strenuousness of running and of painful effort he vanquished and struck him to the earth; neatly and expeditiously he made him ready and before that same great fire put him down to roast, with a turning contrivance to the spits that should keep them going of themselves. Then the Carle started, nor ever halted before he attained to the baron of Inchiquin&#8217;s house (that was a score and ten miles from Slieveluachra) and brought away two barrels of wine, two pewter dishes, all as much bread as there was ready in the house, a table and a chair, the whole of which he carried in the one load and so regained Slieveluachra. Here he found his meat roasted before him; half of the boar, a moiety of the bread and a barrel of wine he set aside to provide for the morning; the other half of each he served to himself upon the table, and comfortably, luxuriously, sat down. He ate his full quantum of meat, after which he ingurgitated into his person a barrel of wine; upon the floor of that caravanserai he shook out a copious layer of rushes, and was wrapped in sleep and lasting slumber until on the morrow&#8217;s day both the all-brilliant sun rose, and Cael an iarainn (who during the night had been on the mountain&#8217;s side without meat or drink) came and roused him from his snooze, saying: &#8220;rise, _bodach_! it is now time for us to set about our journey and our wayfaring.&#8221; With that the Cane woke up, rubbed his eyes with his palms, and said: &#8220;there is an hour&#8217;s time of my sleep that I have not worked out yet; but since thou art in a hurry, I yield thee my consent that thou be off, and undoubtedly I will be after thee.&#8221;

Accordingly Cael went ahead upon the way, not without great misgiving by reason of the small account which he saw the _ bodach_ make of him. When now the latter had slept his stint he rose to a sitting posture, washed his face and hands, served himself up meat on the table; then at his perfect ease sat down to it, ate up the remaining half of boar and bread, and finally swigged off the second barrel of wine.

At this point the Cane got up, in his drab coat&#8217;s skirt he carefully stowed away the pig&#8217;s bones, and away with him at the speed of a swallow or of a roe, or as it had been a blast of the searing March wind careering over the summit of some hill or rugged-headed rock, until he overhauled _ Cael an iarainn_ and across the way in front of him pitched out the porker&#8217;s bones, saying: &#8220;try, Cael, whether upon those bones thou mayest find any little pick at all; for sure it is that after passing last night in fasting condition on Slieveluachra thou art full of hunger.&#8221; &#8220;Thou shouldst be hanged, Carle,&#8221; he answered, &#8220;ere I would go look for meat upon the bones which with thy glutton-tusks thou hast gnawed!&#8221; &#8220;Well then,&#8221; said the _bodac_h, &#8220;it were none too much for thee to put on a gait of going better than thou hast done as yet.&#8221;​ Here he pushed on as though he were turned to be a madman, and in that one heat went thirty miles; then he fell to eating of blackberries from the brambles that were on either side of the road or way, till such time as Cael came up to him and said: &#8220;bodach, thirty miles back from here is the spot in which I saw one skirt of thy drab coat twisted round the neck of a bush, and the second tangled in another bush ten miles behind that again.&#8221; &#8220;Is it the skirts of my coat?" asked the Cane, looking himself all down. &#8220;&#8216;Tis they just,&#8221; Cael said. &#8220;In that case,&#8221; argued the _bodach_, &#8220;that which it were the right thing for thee to do would be to delay here eating of blackberries, in order for me to return and bring back the skirts of my coat.&#8221; &#8220;It is very certain that I will do no such thing,&#8221; answered Cael, and: &#8220;so be it,&#8221; said the _bodach_.

Cael went his road, while the Carle returned till he found the skirts of his coat as the other had said; he sat down, pulled out his needle and thread, and so stitched them on in their own place again. This done he retraced his steps, and Cael was not gone far when the Carle caught him up and said to him: &#8220;Cael, thou must put on a gait of going better than thou hast done yet, if an thou hast already expressed thou wouldst carry off all Ireland&#8217;s tribute; for I will do no more turning back now.&#8221;

Then with the speed of swallow [etc. as before] the _ bodach_ set off as though converted into a madman; and such the impetuous rush of pedestrianism which carried him along, that soon he surmounted the crown of a certain hill within five miles of Ben-Edar, where he devoted himself to eating of blackberries from the brambles until he had made of himself a juice-filled sack. He then put off his drab coat, again produced his needle and thread, and sewed up the garment so as to make out of it a long and wide bag, very deep. This he stuffed to the muzzle with blackberries, and on his skin rubbed a quantity of the same so that he was as black as any smith&#8217;s coal; said load he hoisted upon his shoulder and, stoutly, nimble-footedly set out, making for Ben-Edar.

The position of Finn and of the general Fianna was that they were filled with great apprehension of _ Cael an iarainn_&#8217;s being in front, for without knowing in the world who he was they had pitched all their hope in the Carle. Now abroad on a _tulach_&#8217;s top Finn had a certain emissary to spy whether of the two that raced held the lead; and he, so soon as he caught sight of the Carle, went in and told Finn that Cael came along in the way and the _ bodach_ dead upon his shoulder. &#8220;A suit of arms and of armour,&#8221; cried Finn, &#8220;to him that shall bring us tidings better than these!&#8221; and a second messenger when he was gone out recognised it to be the _ bodach_ that was there. Around him the Fianna of all Ireland flocked together joyously, and sought news. &#8220;I have good news for you,&#8221; he said: &#8220;but for the magnitude of my hunger it is not possible for me to publish it before I eat my sufficiency of parched-corn meal and blackberries mixed: my share of these I have brought with me, and let you now provide me my fill of such meal.&#8221; On Ben-Edar now a great cloth was opened out on which to serve the Carle, with a heap of meal in its very centre; in among the meal he shot his sack of blackberries, and with a will turned to at eating them.

But soon they saw Cael along the road, with his hand at his sword&#8217;s hilt, his two eyes blazing red in his head, and he ready to charge in among the Fianna to hew them and to bone-split When then the _ bodach_ saw him in this array, he picked up his great paw&#8217;s fill of the meal and blackberries, and upon Cael discharged the mess to such purpose that he banished his head to the distance of a fair scope of ground from his body; then where the head was thither he ran, and with it a second time let fly at the trunk in a way that he fastened it on as solid as ever it had been. The manner of him now however was with his face to his back, his poll upon his chest; so the _ bodach_ ran at him, dashed his whole carcase violently to earth, lashed him up hard and fast and inextricably, and said: &#8220;Cael, was it not a mistaken thing for thee to say that on this occasion the chief rent and sovereign power of Ireland, though there were none but thyself alone to strive for it, would be suffered to go with thee? nevertheless none shall ever have it to say to Ireland&#8217;s Fianna that to a solitary warrior, he having none but himself to take his part, they would administer grievousness of death and of short life. If therefore thou be one to swear by sun and moon in guarantee of thy transmitting the rent of Thessaly yearly during thy life long to Finn and to the Fianna, thou shalt have thy life in the guise which now thou wearest&#8221; By sun and moon Cael swore yearly to fulfil that all his life.

Then the _ bodach_ takes him by the tips of his fingers, leads him to his ship and puts him in sitting posture into her; to the vessel&#8217;s afterpart he gave a kick, and with that same sent her seven leagues out to sea. There you have the fashion in which the expedition of the king of Thessaly&#8217;s son _Cael an iarainn_ turned out with him: to be dismissed home under the conditions of a fool or simpleton, without power ever again so long as he should live to strike a blow in battle or in tough single encounter. The _bodach_ came back to Finn and the Fianna, and told them that he was the fairy chief of _ ráth Chruacha_n or &#8216;Rathcroghan,&#8217; that came to loose them out of the fetters in which they had been [i.e. to succour them in their straits]. For the fairy chief Finn then made a feast and banquet of a year and a day.

So far then the adventures of Cael an iarainn, the king of Thessaly&#8217;s son, and of the Carle of the Drab Coat
Finis.

And Jesus wasnt even involved.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> When I'm afraid, i ask Jesus to come and speak truth into me.. And i find that it gives me a supernatural peace.


Why are you so adamant about telling people they are going to suffer eternal torment if they don't think exactly the same way you do?

Why the hostility? 

It seems fishy to me, that even if we are perfect people our entire lives and do nothing but help others, just because we don't believe the things you do, this all loving entity is going to send us to eternal damnation? 

That is a fucking stupid way of thinking bro... for real.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

All of your wisdom will count for nothing on the day you stand before the LORD God Almighty.
God's chosen will hear His call.
The truly wise will heed the call of the LORD and turn from their wicked ways and follow Jesus.

If you can look at the hues of the sunrise,
or watch the life of a dog..
Or feel love in a passionate kiss,
See the iridescent hues reflecting off the scales of a fish
And be truly convinced that all of this is happen stance

Or to never pay attention to the yearnings of one's own spirit,

I truly do not know what to say to convince you.
I pray in the name of Christ Jesus you come to your senses before your life draws to a close,
trapping you in a hopeless dance with the decisions you've made
falling into eternal darkness,
Separated from the light of God.

Where the only light is the fire that is burning you forever, and ever, and ever.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

No hostility here Zaehet.
Just loving concern,
Like a shepherd has for the sheep that have gone astray.

I'm not here to argue with you or anyone else.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> All of your wisdom will count for nothing on the day you stand before the LORD God Almighty.
> God's chosen will hear His call.
> The truly wise will heed the call of the LORD and turn from their wicked ways and follow Jesus.
> 
> ...


Those are no terms and conditions of an omnibenevolent supreme being, they're the superstitious practices of ancient man. 

If a mere mortal can figure that out on his own, what does that say about your god?


If you're right, I wouldn't want any part of it, I'd welcome the darkness.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 24, 2013)

Og ,youre experiences are yours alone.Btw when all is said and done it dosent matter who lost or who won,this life and existence cannot be explained by a subjective set of ideals and entity's by which you or your God deem them fit for all.What you dont seem to get through your experience is that it is your self truth,what you have found to be real for yourself,it dose not constitute what is real for the next person nor what reality actualy is.To say you know that non-believers will burn in hell forever when they die,is the most hateful and devil like thing you could posit toward people,you are no better than the devil of the story's in the bible in this sense.Who are you to say?One of Gods shephards?Do not fool yourself with such a grandeur of delusion.You may have had a set of experiences in your life that has given you a strong sense of purpose,while this is actualy a good thing,it is that very purpose that gives you a prejudice on existence.We live in a place of duality,every thought,every action has positive and negative within it.You call it Satans realm?As though the world belongs to him?I will give you this much there are alot of screwed up things in this world,alot of really bad sh*t.But it is just dumb people who act like foolish little children and never had an open ear to understanding,or an open thought to someone other than themselves and what they want.It comes down to people OG and the reactions we live with from eachothers actions,thats reality.You cant know what is going to happen when you die,so please dont assume to know.
May you find the courage to question your beliefs.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 24, 2013)

ginjawarrior said:


> i've tried to parse your meaning and the best i've got is your contending:
> 
> sex= god and the proof of that is that we're having this conversation?
> 
> ...


...barbless hooks, if you will. The answers are in your questions - 'cept the last one. Wouldn't we all like to know. Tolerance, though, would let us all _try_ to know, if it were really _a parsen_


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## mindphuk (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> If you have voices speaking to you, they might be demons.
> If i audibly heard God's voice telling me to do something, and He gave me a clear sign to let me know it was Him.. I would surely obey Him.


What kind of sign would you require to prove it's god? Don't you already know what god sounds like to you? You certainly have intimated as much. 

Would the level of proof be different for you if god commanded you to do something innocuous like go pray for that guy that just died-- like the Cardiac doctor that prayed and his patient came back to life-- or if he ordered you to do something you think is heinous like kill your own family member, or the President or something? How would you know the difference between god actually commanding you to do something and insanity?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> No hostility here Zaehet.
> Just loving concern,
> Like a shepherd has for the sheep that have gone astray.
> 
> I'm not here to argue with you or anyone else.


Telling people that if they don't believe what you believe that they are going to burn and suffer for all the rest of eternity when they die.....

.......is quite simply on of the most sickening, appalling and hostile things anyone has ever said to me.

You are not here to spread the word of a kind loving god, you are here spreading your own opinions of hate and genocide. 



Want to know what the real god would do if it existed... if you are a good person you go to heaven, if you are a bad person you go to hell... regardless of what you believe. 

^If that's the way it really is, telling people they will burn and suffer forever because they don't think the way you do isn't going to get you anywhere close to heaven in the afterlife.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 24, 2013)




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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> What kind of sign would you require to prove it's god? Don't you already know what god sounds like to you? You certainly have intimated as much.
> 
> Would the level of proof be different for you if god commanded you to do something innocuous like go pray for that guy that just died-- like the Cardiac doctor that prayed and his patient came back to life-- or if he ordered you to do something you think is heinous like kill your own family member, or the President or something? How would you know the difference between god actually commanding you to do something and insanity?


I'm thinking a kind of vision, or actually seeing angels or God showing Himself in the form of His Son Jesus.
To question two, as long as what was being asked was pure and biblical, i probably wouldn't question it much.
As far as question three is concerned, i suppose it would take an intelligent, informed, discerning mind to know whether they were insane or not.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Telling people that if they don't believe what you believe that they are going to burn and suffer for all the rest of eternity when they die.....
> 
> .......is quite simply on of the most sickening, appalling and hostile things anyone has ever said to me.
> 
> ...


I hear you, and respect your opinion. I certainly only mean the best. 

At the very least, in your time of dying... Cry out to Jesus and ask Him to save you from hell.

[video=youtube;cSXutOKhuS0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSXutOKhuS0[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

And this one is of a doctor going to heaven when she dies during a kayaking accident 

[video=youtube;ZPZHWbe9dF4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPZHWbe9dF4[/video]


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 24, 2013)

What about Muslims dying and seeing Allah and Mahommed in heaven? What about Hindu's dying and seeing a few of their gods? These kind of near death experiences are in almost every culture.


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 24, 2013)

The Ecstasy of Conn of the Hundred Battles
RIA MS 23 N 10​ Art shall drink it after forty nights, a mighty hero, until he shall die at Mucruime. Mac Con of the race of Lugaid Loígde, who shall play for a day and a week against Fergus Dubdétach, until they shall die at Bri, through seeking a battle which he shall deliver towards Crinnae. Corbmac shall drink it up; an ancient drink; a pleasant warrior; he shall die at Scoilicc; he shall be a glorious man over her; he shall wash her. Coirpre shall drink it, a fitting contestant with righteousness of rule. Firachri shall demand it; the great deceits of Meath shall advance to the distant sea, till Broadfaced Dáire shall distribute it for a plenteous month. Fécho, unwitting man of fire, from whom they shall be assessed in regard to tax, shall demand it. Muiredach Tírech shall be thirty-yeared. Glorious Crimthann shall bind her with a bond, broad fierce shape beneath foot, till Níall shall be extolled; (...) battles of boundaries, till fierce Loígaire shall be grieved by the coming of the Adzeheads, crossbeams of houses, bent trees, they used to carry blossoms, a rampart, a fort. An excellent champion, Coirpre, shall drink it. Feirce Lugaid of noble great drinking shall be approached: ordeal of battle. A glorious man upon him, theson of Ercéne. Óengarb shall take it with fame of fierce spear. Aíd, glorious champion, shall take it, Aíd Olláin who shall smite a smiting. Diarmait's justice shall be on her: Diarmati, by whom forts shall be ruled with glorious (...), shall demand it, till towards Irthine (?) (...) Féachno (...) over her. Noble Suibne shall be better. Domnall shall be a glorious Óengus. Bláthmac shall approach it, [and] Diarmait, the other's grandson. He who shall celebrate the celebration, rule of exemptions, rule of guilts, rule of slayers, is the two-hundred-yeared Éilimm who was: Snow fo Wine [Snechta Fína, i.e. Fín&#7777;nechta aliter Fínnachta] who shall pour shall drink it: rule from Níall to Níall; the descendant of Níall is everyone's Níall: hostages are pledged; fire approchaes thee; through him bracken shall be red and rough; perhaps in the third month over a year he shall die by teh sea: great the gloom and loss to the world's generations. A sixty-year king, after hosts it is his; he shall die by blood; fierce battle shall injure them, loss, death. Flann of Assal shall be over her, a glorious heir: he shall powerfully bind her with a handful of hostages. Furbaide shall approach it, better thane very man over her, a king good in regard to judgement, good in regard to splendour, glorious ruler upon whom shall be a heavy (...) smiting as a result fo which there shall be death at Br&#299;. The rule of Cailech, strongly shall it be known over her. Glún&#7777;alach shall be over her; a race who sides are very red, he shall bind them with hostages; he shall seize Ross; he shall rule Munster, good battle, first (...) of Irthine (?), glorious ruler over Tara. A kin-slaying man, prone to unjust judgements, shall approach it; he shall drink it to the pit of the world; encircling Saxons, he shall drive them from Corc; he is the king of Munster of great lordships in Tara.
Finit.

prophesied to come in glory, and fight in 100 battles, winning 99, and upon the last, his death. 
Might Hero, Noble King, Conn of the Hundred Battles
Just in treaty with his foes, Noble in stewardship of his people, Conn of the Hundred Battles was ever judicious where engaged in conflict, for 99 battles prophesied he would win, and the Hundredth would find his doom. 
Prophesy named him Conn of the Hundred Battles 
And his wife never let him forget it. 
the bitch always got her way.


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 24, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> What about Muslims dying and seeing Allah and Mahommed in heaven? What about Hindu's dying and seeing a few of their gods? These kind of near death experiences are in almost every culture.


oxygen deprivation causes delirium and hallucination. 
dying brains see all kinds of wacky shit.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

Allah and Adonai, are the same God to start.
If a person has not heard of Christ and rejected Him, if they have lived a good life they could still get to heaven.
Show me some of these near death experiences you speak of, then we can talk about them more in depth.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

Just say Jesus save me.


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## cannabineer (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> It's because of hard evidence of the afterlife, watch the afterlife investigations video it's amazing


If there is hard evidence, why is there none in the reviewed literature? a Youtube vid isn't "research", nor is finding Net blogs. Fwiw. cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Allah and Adonai, are the same God to start.
> If a person has not heard of Christ and rejected Him, if they have lived a good life they could still get to heaven.
> Show me some of these near death experiences you speak of, then we can talk about them more in depth.


Really? I need to show you? You honestly think Christianity is the only religion where you're able to see the god of your beliefs during a near death experience?


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Allah and Adonai, are the same God to start.
> If a person has not heard of Christ and rejected Him, if they have lived a good life they could still get to heaven.
> 
> So a person who converts from christianity to any other religion,say Islam or Buddhism for example, is going to hell thats basicaly what youre saying.How narrow of a mind indeed.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

I can't know unless i see some testimony or at least see something, i did a tiny bit of snooping around and i couldn't find too much.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 24, 2013)

http://www.near-death.com/hindu.html


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

Some people believe that once you are saved that's it and you are going to heaven. Some people think you can lose your salvation. The evidence i have read from the bible says that if you do some things you can't get into heaven.


Here is a selection from 1 Corinthians 6 and i have posted many times on this previously in this thread and given many scriptural references,

[SUP]7 [/SUP]The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? [SUP]8 [/SUP]Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> http://www.near-death.com/hindu.html


Thanks i will check it out.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm not sure what to say about the Indian near death experiences. 
It's interesting how they differ from western cultures, but are still very similar to one another.
I really don't think that people go to hell who haven't heard about Christ.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 24, 2013)

If they are somewhat civilized and cultured and are in the 19th-20th century, they have heard about Christ and they still choose to be Hindu. They are Hindu, they have heard about Christ, and there is no Hell in their near death experiences.


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Allah and Adonai, are the same God to start.


False. 

those who worship the god of abraham do not kneel and bow towards any physical location, nor do they venerate a rock. 
judaism and christianity both prohibit idolatry, and the worship of objects (with varying degrees of success, lol catholics) , while moslem dogma only prohibits worshiping any object other than the rock in the kaaba. 

in word and deed the god of the jews is fundamentally different from the god of moslems, and the god of the christians is even further removed from those primitive and arbitrarily violent deities. 

each of these three sides claims to be the True Believers of the god of abraham, and untill that asshole reaches down and points at his actual "Chosen People" any of them could be right, or even more likely, they are all 3 dead ass wrong. 

Cernunnos, Rhiannon, and Arawnn however, remain as philosophically and logically consistent today as they were in the paleolithic era. 

also, thumbs up for the Hindi and the Taoists. 

Kickin It Ye Olde Schoole since 3000 BC.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 24, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I really don't think that people go to hell who haven't heard about Christ.


Then you haven't read the bible.

It would be nice to talk to a christian who actually has knowledge about the bible before bull shit spills out of their mouths.


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 25, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Some people believe that once you are saved that's it and you are going to heaven. Some people think you can lose your salvation. The evidence i have read from the bible says that if you do some things you can't get into heaven.
> 
> 
> Here is a selection from 1 Corinthians 6 and i have posted many times on this previously in this thread and given many scriptural references,
> ...


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Then you haven't read the bible.
> 
> It would be nice to talk to a christian who actually has knowledge about the bible before bull shit spills out of their mouths.


all 3 allegedly abrahamic texts (torah, new testament, and koran) are each so full of contradictions and just plain insanity that there can be no consensus on what any portion of them might mean. 

i believe this is by design. 

why be an all powerful Priest-King if you have to adhere to the last Priest-King's edicts. 
if your "sacred texts" are so nutty as to be self defeating, YOU as the Priest-King become the true power. 

*Powerslave*
Bruce Dickinson

Into the abyss I'll fall-the eye of Horus 
Into the eyes of the night-watching me go 
Green is the cat's eye that glows-in this temple 
Enter the risen Osiris-risen again. 

Chorus 
Tell me why I had to be a powerslave 
I don't wanna die, I'm a god, why can't I live on? 
When the life giver dies, all around is laid to waste. 
And in my last hour, 
I'm a slave to the power of death. 

When I was living this lie-fear was my game 
People would worship and fall-drop to their knees 
So bring me the blood and red wine for the one to succeed me 
For he is a man and a god-and he will die too. 

Chorus 

Now I am cold but a ghost lives in my veins, 
Silent the terror that reigned-marbled in stone 
Shell of a man God preserved-a thousand ages 
But open the gates of my hell-I will strike from the grave. 

Chorus


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Some people believe that once you are saved that's it and you are going to heaven. Some people think you can lose your salvation. The evidence i have read from the bible says that if you do some things you can't get into heaven.



We're taught, in Christianity, God is all forgiving, all loving.. yadda yadda.. How would you reconcile that with this claim? 

How can there be anything unforgivable within the teachings of Christianity if there are some things you can do which are "unforgivable" according to biblical teachings? Does this not eliminate the possibility of an omnibenevolent being? 

If you can do some things and you can't get into Heaven, doesn't that mean the creator is not unforgivable? Doesn't unforgivable render Gods 'omnibenevolence' moot?


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Then you haven't read the bible.
> 
> It would be nice to talk to a christian who actually has knowledge about the bible before bull shit spills out of their mouths.


This is from gospel.com 
God has promised us that, if we seek Him with all our hearts, we will find Him (Jeremiah 29:13). He is not eager for anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9). &#8220;For there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved&#8221; (Romans 10:12-13). We do not know how God is dealing with people in lands yet unreached by the gospel, but from Scripture we can see that He will never condemn anyone unjustly, but will be faithful to reveal Himself to anyone who looks for His salvation.
We also know that John saw in heaven &#8220;&#8230;a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands and crying out with a loud voice, saying, &#8216;Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!&#8217;&#8221; (Revelation 7:9-10). Not only every nation but every tribe will be represented in heaven.
Notice that they all sing the same song. We are not saying that sincere Muslims or Hindus, trusting in their religion, will make it to heaven. There is only one Savior, and everyone in heaven will be there through the salvation provided by God&#8217;s Lamb, the Lord Jesus.
​


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

I believe that God is loving and just, and those who haven't heard of Jesus but have a pure heart will make it to heaven.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 25, 2013)

Yet those who HAVE heard of Jesus, reject him, but still have a pure heart will burn for eternity?


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I believe that God is loving and just, and those who haven't heard of Jesus but have a pure heart will make it to heaven.


OK, but that isn't what Christianity teaches. Those who haven't heard of Jesus are damned to an eternity of torture and torment, according to Christianity.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> We're taught, in Christianity, God is all forgiving, all loving.. yadda yadda.. How would you reconcile that with this claim?
> 
> How can there be anything unforgivable within the teachings of Christianity if there are some things you can do which are "unforgivable" according to biblical teachings? Does this not eliminate the possibility of an omnibenevolent being?
> 
> If you can do some things and you can't get into Heaven, doesn't that mean the creator is not unforgivable? Doesn't unforgivable render Gods 'omnibenevolence' moot?


God is loving, but He is also Holy, and despises sin.
Sin is detestable in the eyes of God because He is so perfect and Holy.
And God hates as well, we are created in His image and i expect He experiences a lot of the same emotions we do.
Everything is forgivable, except blaspheming the Holy Ghost.
But we have to turn from the sin and ask for forgiveness in the name of Jesus to receive it.
If we just keep doing it over and over, without repenting (turning from our sins) (repent in Greek means to change your mind)
Then we don't ask for forgiveness, and we ultimately die in our sins and suffer the consequences.
Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> OK, but that isn't what Christianity teaches. Those who haven't heard of Jesus are damned to an eternity of torture and torment, according to Christianity.


Frankly, no that isn't what Christianity teaches.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Yet those who HAVE heard of Jesus, reject him, but still have a pure heart will burn for eternity?


Yes.
God sent His only son to die for our sins,
It's a pretty big deal to Him.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 25, 2013)

Fuck the Holy Ghost, na'm sayin?!... Well, Im hooped...


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

[h=3]Luke 13[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[h=3]A Call to Repentance[/h]13 About this time Jesus was informed that Pilate had murdered some people from Galilee as they were offering sacrifices at the Temple. [SUP]2 [/SUP]&#8220;Do you think those Galileans were worse sinners than all the other people from Galilee?&#8221; Jesus asked. &#8220;Is that why they suffered? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Not at all! And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And what about the eighteen people who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? [SUP]5 [/SUP]No, and I tell you again that unless you repent, you will perish, too.&#8221;
[h=3]Parable of the Barren Fig Tree[/h][SUP]6 [/SUP]Then Jesus told this story: &#8220;A man planted a fig tree in his garden and came again and again to see if there was any fruit on it, but he was always disappointed. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Finally, he said to his gardener, &#8216;I&#8217;ve waited three years, and there hasn&#8217;t been a single fig! Cut it down. It&#8217;s just taking up space in the garden.&#8217;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]&#8220;The gardener answered, &#8216;Sir, give it one more chance. Leave it another year, and I&#8217;ll give it special attention and plenty of fertilizer. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we get figs next year, fine. If not, then you can cut it down.&#8217;&#8221;
[h=3]Jesus Heals on the Sabbath[/h][SUP]10 [/SUP]One Sabbath day as Jesus was teaching in a synagogue, [SUP]11 [/SUP]he saw a woman who had been crippled by an evil spirit. She had been bent double for eighteen years and was unable to stand up straight. [SUP]12 [/SUP]When Jesus saw her, he called her over and said, &#8220;Dear woman, you are healed of your sickness!&#8221; [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then he touched her, and instantly she could stand straight. How she praised God!
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the leader in charge of the synagogue was indignant that Jesus had healed her on the Sabbath day. &#8220;There are six days of the week for working,&#8221; he said to the crowd. &#8220;Come on those days to be healed, not on the Sabbath.&#8221;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Lord replied, &#8220;You hypocrites! Each of you works on the Sabbath day! Don&#8217;t you untie your ox or your donkey from its stall on the Sabbath and lead it out for water? [SUP]16 [/SUP]This dear woman, a daughter of Abraham, has been held in bondage by Satan for eighteen years. Isn&#8217;t it right that she be released, even on the Sabbath?&#8221;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]This shamed his enemies, but all the people rejoiced at the wonderful things he did.
[h=3]Parable of the Mustard Seed[/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]Then Jesus said, &#8220;What is the Kingdom of God like? How can I illustrate it? [SUP]19 [/SUP]It is like a tiny mustard seed that a man planted in a garden; it grows and becomes a tree, and the birds make nests in its branches.&#8221;
[h=3]Parable of the Yeast[/h][SUP]20 [/SUP]He also asked, &#8220;What else is the Kingdom of God like? [SUP]21 [/SUP]It is like the yeast a woman used in making bread. Even though she put only a little yeast in three measures of flour, it permeated every part of the dough.&#8221;
[h=3]The Narrow Door[/h][SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he went, always pressing on toward Jerusalem. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Someone asked him, &#8220;Lord, will only a few be saved?&#8221;
He replied, [SUP]24 [/SUP]&#8220;Work hard to enter the narrow door to God&#8217;s Kingdom, for many will try to enter but will fail. [SUP]25 [/SUP]When the master of the house has locked the door, it will be too late. You will stand outside knocking and pleading, &#8216;Lord, open the door for us!&#8217; But he will reply, &#8216;I don&#8217;t know you or where you come from.&#8217; [SUP]26 [/SUP]Then you will say, &#8216;But we ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.&#8217; [SUP]27 [/SUP]And he will reply, &#8216;I tell you, I don&#8217;t know you or where you come from. Get away from me, all you who do evil.&#8217;
[SUP]28 [/SUP]&#8220;There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, for you will see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God, but you will be thrown out. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And people will come from all over the world&#8212;from east and west, north and south&#8212;to take their places in the Kingdom of God. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And note this: Some who seem least important now will be the greatest then, and some who are the greatest now will be least important then.[SUP][a][/SUP]&#8221;


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 25, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Yes.
> God sent His only son to die for our sins,
> It's a pretty big deal to Him.


But you've just heard of real indian near death experiences where Hindu's, who have heard of Jesus, see their gods and their heaven before they get sent to their body, they didnt see a biblical hell. How do you explain that?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> OK, but that isn't what Christianity teaches. Those who haven't heard of Jesus are damned to an eternity of torture and torment, according to Christianity.


This is exactly what it teaches, and if this Oldgrowth fella doesn't agree... he has not read the bible.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

I hope you know that if you are a christian and you beat off... you are going to hell, lol... and from the looks of it Oldgrowth, you do a hella lot of beating off.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

okay.. I'm going to bed. God bless you.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> This is exactly what it teaches, and if this Oldgrowth fella doesn't agree... he has not read the bible.


Prove it.

And no i don't masturbate.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> But you've just heard of real indian near death experiences where Hindu's, who have heard of Jesus, see their gods and their heaven before they get sent to their body, they didnt see a biblical hell. How do you explain that?


I don't know, they were all sent back to their bodies before they had a chance to come to much of anything. From the few that i read.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

^BAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!! Not only are you crazy, but also a liar. In hell you shall burn for all of eternity, with all those who have not heard of jesus as well. 

(John 14:6 NIV) Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Whether someone believes or not, everyone will hear about Jesus according to the bible: Matthew 24:13-15 (New International Version)
13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 


What the fuck else do you think happens to people who do not accept jesus as their savior? What you think they just get reincarnated or some bull shit? It's HEAVEN OR HELL! comon man, who are you trying to kid? Oh wait, we all knew the answer to that question as soon as you started the thread, you are only trying to kid yourself.

Oh yeah, i forgot, you are trying to twist the words of the bible to fit your own desires... to hell you shall go. 

Before you go to bed why don't you beat off to that imaginary girlfriend you've never had... maybe that will make you feel better. Sorry for being so hostile but it is my only reproach for liars and bigots like yourself. 

Go get laid so you can quit spanking that monkey every night before you go to bed, maybe your punishment in hell will be less severe.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> God is loving, but He is also Holy, and despises sin.
> Sin is detestable in the eyes of God because He is so perfect and Holy.
> *And God hates as well, we are created in His image and i expect He experiences a lot of the same emotions we do.*
> Everything is forgivable, except blaspheming the Holy Ghost.
> ...



But God says no human will ever be perfect, thus the confession and admission of sin.

No human is infallible. All are expected to sin, it is in fact what Jesus died on the cross for. 

Since none of us are perfect, how can our sins be forgiven?

How can an omnibenevolent God hate?

Why is blasphemy unforgivable? 

How can something be unforgivable to an omnipotent being? Doesn't "all powerful" denote "all forgivable"? Isn't _anything/everything_ forgivable to an omnipotent being? Why is forgiveness even an option? Shouldn't we automatically be forgiven for everything, automatically?

Why would a god create us with specific urges already knowing the outcome?

What is 'perfect', in the biblical sense? Stone homosexuals? Castrate adulterers? Beat kids within an inch of their life if they disobey me? Don't eat shellfish or work on Sunday? What? Enlighten me so I don't fuck up and break a religious rule that'll damn me to Hell for an all, unwarranted, eternity!


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

PS. What keeps me so unsatisfied in this eternity, anyway?

When threatened with it, as I so often am by religious nutjobs, it's as if I couldn't pick up and walk away from some shitty eternity like I could a job i hated.. Why couldn't I? What, is there some biblical force ensuring I stay, providing more proof God is an asshole with a superiority complex? I'm damned to an eternity of torture and torment? OK! Fuck you! Watch me pick up and leave as fast as the verdict was chosen! Whats worse than their perceived conclusion?! The mail room??!

Watch how little I do, how much I give a fuck, how much it hurts, just watch! I have an ETERNITY to show you! 


Come up with better eternal tortures, fucktards. Nothing you could do to me for eternity could stifle my ability to reason. Take my brain out, eliminate cognition. Beyond that, and with that I wouldn't give a flying fuck about shit, get fucked. 

Logic'd! 

Fuck organized religion. Thousands of years to come up with shit spent coming up with nothing but bullshit. Congrats.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

...Logic'd. You guys wave reason around like you're looking for a patent 

ps: your insolent tone keeps people from posting here. Is that good for business?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

I think he is well founded in telling someone off who says they will burn and suffer for the rest of eternity in the afterlife if they don't think a certain way...


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## ultraviolet pirate (Jan 25, 2013)

one day, each of us will dicover the truth. its stupid to argue about. i think i got one shot to be alive so im trying to make it as fun as i can. im not gonna crap on what someone believes. ive met some christians that were sweet gentle people, others that were hypocritical assholes. ive read the bible. i believe that one could follow the teachings of jesus and live good life. more power to them. just aint for me


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I think he is well founded in telling someone off who says they will burn and suffer for the rest of eternity in the afterlife if they don't think a certain way...


...I think the real meaning of that is lost. You're taking it literally, then calling the religious 'nutjobs' + all the expletives. Can you live your own philosophy and say that 'you don't know' instead of calling other people out? I'm not so much a fcktard, you know? Would real intelligence have the gumption to show the way? No, it's ridicule full time here. I have the intelligence for science, my belief does not hamper that. I also happen to believe in a creator, and I'll spend the rest of my life contemplating that source. But hey, that's fckn idiotic, right?

...for Pad to look back at history and say that they're all fckd, then maybe Pad should not go to any hospital, school (academics), etc... because 'they' created most of 'em.

*...reason pauses before blurting. I think it's the protocol.*


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

I don't think Pad's intentions were to include you in that rant, i would assume he is talking about religious extremest/fundamentalists consumed with bigotry and genocide.

From my experience, you fall no where near any of that Eye.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I don't think Pad's intentions were to include you in that rant, i would assume he is talking about religious extremest/fundamentalists consumed with bigotry and genocide.
> 
> From my experience, you fall no where near any of that Eye.


...I know that has existed, I know it exists. Bigotry and genocide are not the product of religious faith. Yes, in some cases, it is. Isn't it just a human trait that gets wrapped in someone's beliefs?

...I know what you're saying, strife, but since we're all connected to each other through the common bond of 'humanity', he is saying that to me as well. That's the issue. Look at some of the skeptics here, they're calm enough to engage with believers. Just trying to get sht sorted out. Taking offense to someone talking about hell, especially when you don't believe in one, is less than reasonable.

...I don't think he's a bad guy.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

I don't know him, so i can't postulate whether or not he is "good or bad"

The only thing i have to go off is his presentation of his ideas, blatantly stating that if you do not believe what he believes, when you die, you will burn and suffer for all the rest of eternity. 

Personally, i don't care what anyone believes, just as long as they either keep it to themselves or present it in a way that is not harmful to others. 

So when someone presents a belief... or more accurately an idea that they think is true, and that person insists that if i don't believe in their idea that i am going to be tortured for all eternity when i die, personally... fuck that guy, and fuck his beliefs. 

It goes the same way for me when prejudice people talk about how homosexuals are an abomination and will go to hell, or how blacks aren't humans and deserve to be slaves... FUCK those guys.

This world isn't as perfect and connected as most spiritual people think, there are more people out there that are bigots than you might assume, and ill be damned if I'm going to stand back while they parade around spreading their hate, prejudiced, sectarian, xenophobic, anti-semitic bull shit.

In my opinion they deserve to know that what they are saying is fucked up, and it is our moral duty and responsibility to let them know how fucked up their thinking is.


----------



## Heisenberg (Jan 25, 2013)

"Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong". - Bill


----------



## tyler.durden (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I don't know him, so i can't postulate whether or not he is "good or bad"
> 
> The only thing i have to go off is his presentation of his ideas, blatantly stating that if you do not believe what he believes, when you die, you will burn and suffer for all the rest of eternity.
> 
> ...


Amen, ZS. I'd rep you if I could...


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...Logic'd. You guys wave reason around like you're looking for a patent
> 
> ps: your insolent tone keeps people from posting here. Is that good for business?


Forgive me for being blunt about it but that's what you get when an ignorant person makes such idiotic claims. 

If you believe any of those ancient stories about Heaven or Hell or angels and demons or what happens to you according to traditional religious beliefs after death you're grouped into that category, I'm pretty sure you don't from previous threads, so why would you put yourself there or think I did just because you believe in _something_? There's a distinction between "religious nutjob" and "religious person". Religious people don't come onto public forums and make these kinds of claims, religious nutjobs do. Religious people don't protest funerals, religious nutjobs do. It's not my job to cater to the sensibilities of religious people, especially considering everything.


----------



## ginjawarrior (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...barbless hooks, if you will. The answers are in your questions - 'cept the last one. Wouldn't we all like to know. Tolerance, though, would let us all _try_ to know, if it were really _a parsen_


hmm vagueness was never a virtue you know


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 25, 2013)

All of this hate is toxic, i may come back to this thread in the future..


----------



## ProfessorPotSnob (Jan 25, 2013)

We can not have love without hate , at least in this world brother ! Peace


----------



## Heisenberg (Jan 25, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> All of this hate is toxic, i may come back to this thread in the future..


I agree. When someone stands up and says they have a set of beliefs and openly admits they acquired these beliefs through irrationality, it is pretty hateful when they tell you that, unless you agree, you will be burned and tortured forever. The problem with faith is that people can not give any reason why their faith should mean something to you, yet they demand and threaten that it does. It would seem that coercion is the only leg this thread has to stand on. Agree with me or be sorry. Pretty sad when an ideology contains so many atrocious ideas that it has to rely on terrorism to gain a following.

I think George should take his medication.


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I think George should take his medication.


I think he needs to a haircut and a girlfriend too.


----------



## cannabineer (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I know that has existed, I know it exists. Bigotry and genocide are not the product of religious faith. Yes, in some cases, it is. Isn't it just a human trait that gets wrapped in someone's beliefs?
> 
> ...I know what you're saying, strife, but since we're all connected to each other through the common bond of 'humanity', he is saying that to me as well. That's the issue. Look at some of the skeptics here, they're calm enough to engage with believers. Just trying to get sht sorted out. Taking offense to someone talking about hell, especially when you don't believe in one, is less than reasonable.
> 
> ...I don't think he's a bad guy.


Even so it is the tendency of clergy (and their equivalents in the other world religions) to say "We hold and present to you the cornerstone and exclusive engine of all truth!" And throughout history, they've invoked this engine, and their privileged access to it, to power armies. So while bigotry and genocide are not exclusively the product of religious faith, religion is far from blameless. I recognize that you have a rather sublimated minority view of religious meaning which gentles it away from the sort of harsh moral directives that clergy has relied on in the past and present ... to motivate the congregation to some sort of jihad. cn


----------



## tumorhead (Jan 25, 2013)

I don't believe in god, hell, or angels. I don't put much "faith" in the bible considering it's only some of the "scriptures" selectively chosen by human men, with an agenda. 

I also think it's better to "do the right thing" when nobody's looking because you genuinely want to rather than trying to earn points with some mythical god. That seems selfish. And honestly if there is a heaven I probably wouldn't like the people in it. I'm probably a better "christian" than most and I'm not religious in the slightest. But honestly I have a conscience and if I don't do the right thing it haunts me with anxiety attacks just thinking about it, forever, so I have motivation enough without fear of some mythical God's punishment.

Also pisses me off to see rivalry between religions...or the righteousness many "christians" feel over other religions....


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> Even so it is the tendency of clergy (and their equivalents in the other world religions) to say "We hold and present to you the cornerstone and exclusive engine of all truth!" And throughout history, they've invoked this engine, and their privileged access to it, to power armies. So while bigotry and genocide are not exclusively the product of religious faith, religion is far from blameless. I recognize that you have a rather sublimated minority view of religious meaning which gentles it away from the sort of harsh moral directives that clergy has relied on in the past and present ... to motivate the congregation to some sort of jihad. cn


...neer *nods*

...they all hold the cornerstone of truth, imo. The truth is in the proper application of 'the force', if you catch that drift. It is the source of all things, therefore, the source of all illness (sheol). All of the cloud that surrounds it is a bitch, I know. All of the fighting about it is equal in its be-itch-itude lol. The rest of it, the cloud, that is cultural. I think it always has been. I'm not looking at this in the mystical, flowery, yay I'm fckn so happy! kind of way. I'm interested in the essence the same way that a scientist is interested in the essence. One is material, the other immaterial.

...maybe a liberal catholic upbringing kept me out of the 'religious judgment' game. I've never looked at a person for their beliefs. People simply 'are'. All the rest of it, the cloud, it's ego building its tower. I've held many a discussion with clergy. We'd be opening the east / west / demographics can of worms to get the jihad idea sorted out.

...I'll say this though, the devil is the skin and it makes sense to shed it. To be made 'anew' into a wise snake sheds that 'sheol'. To me, this is the _core message_ of the holy books - however adulterated they may be.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...neer *nods*
> 
> ...they all hold the cornerstone of truth, imo. The truth is in the proper application of 'the force', if you catch that drift. It is the source of all things, therefore, the source of all illness (sheol). All of the cloud that surrounds it is a bitch, I know. All of the fighting about it is equal in its be-itch-itude lol. The rest of it, the cloud, that is cultural. I think it always has been. I'm not looking at this in the mystical, flowery, yay I'm fckn so happy! kind of way. I'm interested in the essence the same way that a scientist is interested in the essence.* One is material, the other immaterial*.
> 
> ...


How does one study the "immaterial"? If you can't study it, how would it be useful?


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

^ I agree, and i also wish Eye would type his words in a way that everyone can understand, instead he leaves it open for interpretation, which can lead to miscommunication. 

"The truth is in the proper application of "the force"" Dafuk does that even mean man? No offense. 

I can see you as an intellectual individual Eye... which is why i don't understand why you don't communicate what you are saying in a way everyone can understand without misinterpreting what you are trying to say. 

I mean, i know you have a certain image you are trying to portray, don't we all? But for realzy bro, i wish you would use your words more diligently, more precise and with more care. 

Sometimes i think you put things the way you do... to confuse people on purpose, or maybe you don't understand it enough yourself to be able to describe it in a way that everyone might be able to comprehend exactly what points you are trying to get across or what exactly you are trying to say.

I'm sorry if im being critical, i just want to understand because i like you.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> How does one study the "immaterial"? If you can't study it, how would it be useful?


...you've heard the term 'as above so below', and that jazz, correct? As without, so within. Here's how one studies the immaterial, at least, one way of doing that. We see that water is the key to life. Nowadays, the waters are getting more and more polluted. Water, in the scriptural sense, is sex. We don't have to google too much to see how sex is degenerated. Nothing wrong with sex, but it's fairly clear that there are some things that go too far. I'll spare the examples  So then one person decides to clean up their 'waters'. Pretty well equivalent to one person not dumping toxins into a stream. Add up all the 'one persons' and now you have a more healthy collective. Will power is sexual. How many people have real will power? Will power could clean up a stream in the material sense, you know? It means that a person has enough libido (sexual drive is the motor at any level of operation) to accomplish the task. This is important for potheads


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> ^ I agree, and i also wish Eye would type his words in a way that everyone can understand, instead he leaves it open for interpretation, which can lead to miscommunication.
> 
> "The truth is in the proper application of "the force"" Dafuk does that even mean man? No offense.
> 
> ...


...hey, strife, same here. The reason I can't be too descriptive is mostly about time. It's also that as a believer, I claim uncertainty as a device. It is a tool that helps with understanding. Some concepts are very hard to 'hold in place' to study. Maybe like the super-math, but without numbers  I also don't want to say things that I don't mean because it is beneficial to let ideas cook before presenting them. Hard to do in a forum where it's interesting to get into the rapid exchange of ideas.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...you've heard the term 'as above so below', and that jazz, correct? As without, so within. Here's how one studies the immaterial, at least, one way of doing that. We see that water is the key to life. Nowadays, the waters are getting more and more polluted. Water, in the scriptural sense, is sex. We don't have to google too much to see how sex is degenerated. Nothing wrong with sex, but it's fairly clear that there are some things that go too far. I'll spare the examples  So then one person decides to clean up their 'waters'. Pretty well equivalent to one person not dumping toxins into a stream. Add up all the 'one persons' and now you have a more healthy collective. Will power is sexual. How many people have real will power? Will power could clean up a stream in the material sense, you know? It means that a person has enough libido (sexual drive is the motor at any level of operation) to accomplish the task. This is important for potheads


Im sorry, man, I have no idea what this means. Could you explain it in another way?


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

If you would take the time, i would really appreciate it if you would describe to me in detail exactly what you meant when you said

"The truth is in the proper application of "the force"

I sincerely want to understand. 


Also, i wouldn't define a believer as someone who claims uncertainty. A believer is someone who claims certainty, a skeptic is someone who can choose to believe all the while accepting the uncertainty of their beliefs.



Padawanbater2 said:


> Im sorry, man, I have no idea what this means. Could you explain it in another way?


Dude... i can totally empathize with that. Sometimes it's super hard to understand him.


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Im sorry, man, I have no idea what this means. Could you explain it in another way?


...the psyche of the people dictates the environmental state of the earth.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...the psyche of the people dictates the environmental state of the earth.


I can agree in a sense that mankind has the ability to shape our environment, and how we decide to change it depends on our mental state (and who has the most money). But in my opinion the main factor in this is nature, something we cannot control.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...you've heard the term 'as above so below', and that jazz, correct? As without, so within. Here's how one studies the immaterial, at least, one way of doing that. We see that water is the key to life. Nowadays, the waters are getting more and more polluted. Water, in the scriptural sense, is sex. We don't have to google too much to see how sex is degenerated. Nothing wrong with sex, but it's fairly clear that there are some things that go too far. I'll spare the examples  So then one person decides to clean up their 'waters'. Pretty well equivalent to one person not dumping toxins into a stream. Add up all the 'one persons' and now you have a more healthy collective. Will power is sexual. How many people have real will power? Will power could clean up a stream in the material sense, you know? It means that a person has enough libido (sexual drive is the motor at any level of operation) to accomplish the task. This is important for potheads


"It's fairly clear that there are some things that go too far."

That's totally subjective. To a staunch conservative, of course there are some things that "go too far", but to someone whose completely comfortable with their sexuality, what's "too far"? 

Why do you compare one couples (or more) sexual escapades to that of everyone elses at large? Why would my actions behind closed doors add to the whole of society? "...one person not dumping toxins into a stream". Into what stream am I "dumping toxins" if I decide to have nontraditional sex?

How/why is willpower sexual?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> If you would take the time, i would really appreciate it if you would describe to me in detail exactly what you meant when you said
> 
> "The truth is in the proper application of "the force"
> 
> ...



...I keep looking for the ump








...the force is the sexual potency that we all have. Wise application of that 'force' keeps people healthy. It is meant as a tool for psychological rest. Don't get me wrong, you wouldn't have heard me saying that 10 years ago.

...uncertainty - I was using that term to show that I cannot be precise about things because each one idea branches out to so many that have monstrous implications themselves. "Gist", man, "Gist".


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "It's fairly clear that there are some things that go too far."
> 
> That's totally subjective. To a staunch conservative, of course there are some things that "go too far", but to someone whose completely comfortable with their sexuality, what's "too far"?
> 
> ...


...last one, then I'm done for now. Let's leave the staunch cons out of it, and picture your own 'end' of that spectrum. No need to pick that apart.

...I compare them all together because they're all using the same force. No bench test needed to see what the worst of degeneration can do. Some horrific stuff happens, that's for sure. On the positive side, well, it's positive. What the fck else could I say about that 

...willpower is creative power at all levels, imo.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

So according to you, the truth is the proper application of sex???

I think i might just have to give up on trying to understand you if you can't explain yourself in a simple way, without metaphors.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...last one, then I'm done for now. Let's leave the staunch cons out of it, and picture your own 'end' of that spectrum. No need to pick that apart.
> 
> ...I compare them all together because they're all using the same force. No bench test needed to see what the worst of degeneration can do. Some horrific stuff happens, that's for sure. On the positive side, well, it's positive. What the fck else could I say about that
> 
> ...willpower is creative power at all levels, imo.


Are you talking about degrading sex acts? Humiliation type stuff?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I can agree in a sense that mankind has the ability to shape our environment, and how we decide to change it depends on our mental state (and who has the most money). But in my opinion the main factor in this is nature, something we cannot control.


...precisely. We cannot seem to control human nature either. Nature is in balance. Most of the people? Not so much. Real religious seeking is in learning from nature, as crazy as that may sound. We can't look into the sun, but the moon, yes.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Are you talking about degrading sex acts? Humiliation type stuff?


...how about anything that helps anyone further degrade themselves.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...how about anything that helps anyone further degrade themselves.


What is wrong with degradation as long as consent is involved?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 25, 2013)

Eye, you crazy... and i don't understand you... i love you, but you crazy. 

Someday maybe you'll figure out a way to speak to people in a way that is understandable, until then... turtle power!


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What is wrong with degradation as long as consent is involved?


...interesting question. I'll pose one back to you. Do you enjoy degrading yourself?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Eye, you crazy... and i don't understand you... i love you, but you crazy.
> 
> Someday maybe you'll figure out a way to speak to people in a way that is understandable, until then... turtle power!


...lol, one day.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...interesting question. I'll pose one back to you. Do you enjoy degrading yourself?


I'm not sure how I'd degrade myself, but _play_ degrading a _play _slut is hot as fuck, imo


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I keep looking for the ump
> 
> 
> 
> ...









Sexy as f*ck

(I hope I somewhat know what you're talking about and what I posted is relevant lol)


----------



## ginjawarrior (Jan 26, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> So according to you, the truth is the proper application of sex???
> 
> I think i might just have to give up on trying to understand you if you can't explain yourself in a simple way, without metaphors.


the way im looking at it atm is that eye is on the way/ there already to becoming one of those guru's that uses very vague spiritual crap with connotations of sexuality to fooling people to sleep with them because they are the one holders of the "truth"

something i've seen before a few times and TBH i think eye's just here practising the trade


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 26, 2013)

ginjawarrior said:


> the way im looking at it atm is that eye is on the way/ there already to becoming one of those guru's that uses very vague spiritual crap with connotations of sexuality to fooling people to sleep with them because they are the one holders of the "truth"
> 
> something i've seen before a few times and TBH i think eye's just here practising the trade


...would gladly stop talking about it just to bang the drum with people here


----------



## tyler.durden (Jan 26, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...would gladly stop talking about it just to bang the drum with people here


Finally! A post we can understand


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jan 26, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I know Christianity is true.
> Rephrase..
> I know the words of Jesus are the words of the Son of God.


&#8203;How do you know?


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jan 27, 2013)

^That's a damn good question, lets see what bull shit answer he can come up with lol.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

For one, every time i sin.. God afflicts me or makes me feel bad.
Right now i have the most splitting spiritual headache because i watched some movies and shows He didn't want me to watch.
I'm a spiritually sensitive person, and i often feel evil around me.. And when i do i say Come Lord Jesus, and i feel Him enter the room and take away the evil presences.
I see my prayers get answered, often instantly.
I pray for God to help me with pain and i feel a spiritual sensation on my body and the pain subsides.
I ask forgiveness for my sins and i feel cleansed and healed.
I read the bible and it washed my spirit and cleanses me.
When i do what the bible says to do it improves my life, and i feel joy welling up from within, as i am being blessed for following God's will.

I'm here to help you, there is no reason for all the negativity and hostility.
I started this thread to talk about Christianity and the path to Heaven.


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

Some times i ask Jesus to give me a big hug when i feel bad, and i feel his embrace and feel better.
I just say (believing totally it will happen) Jesus please give me a big hug in Jesus name amen.

*Also Zaehet Strife i had a vision that you and Chief Walkin Eagle went to heaven,
I also had a vision that Heisenberg went to hell.


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jan 27, 2013)

I had a vision, that you never get a girlfriend.

Way to skeet the question.


----------



## tyler.durden (Jan 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Some times i ask Jesus to give me a big hug when i feel bad, and i feel his embrace and feel better.
> I just say (believing totally it will happen) Jesus please give me a big hug in Jesus name amen.
> 
> *Also Zaehet Strife i had a vision that you and Chief Walkin Eagle went to heaven,
> *I also had a vision that Heisenberg went to hell.*


ROTFLMFAO! You done did it now, Heis. OG and Jesus condemn you to Hell! You now officially have nothing to lose...


----------



## Heisenberg (Jan 27, 2013)




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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> For one, every time i sin.. God afflicts me or makes me feel bad.
> Right now i have the most splitting spiritual headache because i watched some movies and shows He didn't want me to watch.
> I'm a spiritually sensitive person, and i often feel evil around me.. And when i do i say Come Lord Jesus, and i feel Him enter the room and take away the evil presences.
> I see my prayers get answered, often instantly.
> ...


So special you must feel for God to cater to you personally while simultaneously allowing evil to flourish in the world.

If you knew anything at all about the human condition, you would realize all of this is a product of your own psyche. 

You _feel_ it because you _want_ to feel it. You attribute your feelings to a god because you _want _it to be real. It can't be anything else because you already *know*&#8203; it's Jesus. Forget about all the inconsistencies, all the hatred and misogyny, all the racism and homophobic rhetoric, all the pain, torture and human sacrifice ancient desert dwellers came up with millennia ago that has gone on the past 2,000 years.. 

...as long as it makes you _feel _better.




This is a case of complete selfishness, and you're definitely not alone. You, and a billion other Christians would rather feel content about oblivion, even if it isn't true, than grant equal treatment to humanity. 


I honestly can't think of anything more selfish than that.


----------



## tyler.durden (Jan 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Some times i ask Jesus to give me a big hug when i feel bad, and i feel his embrace and feel better.
> I just say (believing totally it will happen) Jesus please give me a big hug in Jesus name amen.


I don't blame you, dood. Jesus is _hot_ 

[video=youtube;7uu-TtAKpCw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uu-TtAKpCw[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> So special you must feel for God to cater to you personally while simultaneously allowing evil to flourish in the world.
> 
> If you knew anything at all about the human condition, you would realize all of this is a product of your own psyche.
> 
> ...


How is it that you are so bold as to think you know what I am experiencing?


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

Good night and God bless you.

Heisenberg, I had another vision.. And the outcome was absolutely different. I saw heavenly light and angel wings.
Keep questioning reality.

Just say Jesus save me.


----------



## tyler.durden (Jan 27, 2013)

oldgrowth420 said:


> for one, every time i sin.. God afflicts me or makes me feel bad.
> Right now i have the most splitting spiritual headache because i watched some movies and shows he didn't want me to watch.
> I'm a spiritually sensitive person, and i often feel evil around me.. And when i do i say come lord jesus, and i feel him enter the room and take away the evil presences.
> I see my prayers get answered, often instantly.
> ...





oldgrowth420 said:


> how is it that you are so bold as to think you know what i am experiencing?


wtf?!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Heisenberg (Jan 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Heisenberg, I had another vision.. And the outcome was absolutely different. I saw heavenly light and angel wings.
> *Keep questioning reality*.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jan 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> How is it that you are so bold as to think you know what I am experiencing?


I don't know what you are experiencing, I know what you're not.


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

So we have this argument..
One side claims they know the absolute truth based upon the lack of personal experience.
The other side claims to know the absolute truth based on personal experience.
One cannot prove or disprove what another may or may not be experiencing.

I think what you should observe is the behavior of the individuals.

You can know a tree based upon it's fruit.

*Galatians 5:22-23*

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

The Spirit, in this verse, is the Holy Spirit of God. Dwelling in the believers of Jesus 
Christ


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

[video=youtube;mOc1ko00YiI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOc1ko00YiI[/video]


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

[video=youtube;3Wok4OgFW1g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wok4OgFW1g[/video]


----------



## tyler.durden (Jan 27, 2013)

How did people argue for Jesus before YouTube?


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jan 27, 2013)

Those videos are whack. If prayer works why did the doctors keep working as per normal medical guidelines? 

If people REALLY believed that prayer worked, they wouldn't take people to hospitals in the first place.


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jan 27, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


>


OMFG THIS IS SO FUNNY!!!!!! 

At first dude was like, you guys are going to fucking BUUUURN! And now he's like... you guys are going to heaven! What a fucking joke, Oldbitch you need to find a fucking girlfriend... 

...shit, i forgot my vision, outcome does not look good. lmfao! here comes the ROFL-COPTER! ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL!!!!


----------



## BeanyBud (Jan 27, 2013)

Everyone should have they're own system of beliefs please stop pushing your agenda on us with fear of eternal punishment


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 27, 2013)

OG ,,I know this may be of little relevance ,just how old are you?Pure and simple question.Dont be scared to answer its ok.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jan 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> So we have this argument..
> One side claims they know the absolute truth based upon the lack of personal experience.
> The other side claims to know the absolute truth based on personal experience.
> One cannot prove or disprove what another may or may not be experiencing.
> ...


How would you determine if someone was simply making it up?

Couldn't anyone just say exactly what you're saying and attribute it to a different god?



> for one, every time i sin.. *Allah* afflicts me or makes me feel bad.Right now i have the most splitting spiritual headache because i watched some movies and shows he didn't want me to watch.
> I'm a spiritually sensitive person, and i often feel evil around me.. And when i do i say come *Muhammad*, and i feel him enter the room and take away the evil presences.
> I see my prayers get answered, often instantly.
> I pray for *Allah *to help me with pain and i feel a spiritual sensation on my body and the pain subsides.
> ...


Furthermore, who is anyone to say with any kind of certainty what you're experiencing is definitely something spiritual? Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume if you have some kind of preconceived expectation of what you think a spiritual experience would feel like, then for whatever reason you felt it, be it because something spiritual actually happened to you or because your mind made you _thi_ something spiritual happened to you, you'd think something spiritual actually did happen to you?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Some times i ask Jesus to give me a big hug when i feel bad, and i feel his embrace and feel better.
> I just say (believing totally it will happen) Jesus please give me a big hug in Jesus name amen.
> 
> *Also Zaehet Strife i had a vision that you and Chief Walkin Eagle went to heaven,
> I also had a vision that Heisenberg went to hell.


LOL that is too funny... I talked shit about the Holy Ghost though... Jesus must love me too much I guess.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 27, 2013)

@ Zaehet, your Bertrand Russell profile pic makes me smile. He's always kinda been the grandpa I never had, lol.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 27, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> LOL that is too funny... I talked shit about the Holy Ghost though... Jesus must love me too much I guess.


Yeah super weird, i was raised a christian and turned away from religion all together once i started thinking for myself... i thought that was an instant ticket to hell. I am a good person though, maybe i just got lucky huh? Weeeiiirrd.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> OG ,,I know this may be of little relevance ,just how old are you?Pure and simple question.Dont be scared to answer its ok.


I'm 24 July 1st 1988


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> How would you determine if someone was simply making it up?
> 
> Couldn't anyone just say exactly what you're saying and attribute it to a different god?
> 
> ...


Question 1, I'm not sure what you are talking about. But i'm guessing you are asking me how to know if a person is lying or not. I think that just takes personal experience and wisdom.

Question 2, i suppose that could happen. I suppose people could just about say anything.

Question 3, everything i do is an experiment, while i believe i don't necessarily expect a certain result. After thousands of spiritual experiences, my belief is concrete and is no longer based upon results. I assure you, the sensations i am feeling are outside of my being and are indeed spiritual.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 27, 2013)

I was studying to become a preacher. There are several articles I'd written, but for the sake of remaining anonymous... I won't share them. After actually studying the Bible I was searching for answers to the incoherent stories and teachings; many of which were actually contradictory. Anyway, I'm an atheist now and I think that if everyone would actually study the Bible and I mean really STUDY and be honest with themselves about what they are reading and how it makes them feel... there would be a lot more atheists in this world.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 27, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> I was studying to become a preacher. There are several articles I'd written, but for the sake of remaining anonymous... I won't share them. After actually studying the Bible I was searching for answers to the incoherent stories and teachings; many of which were actually contradictory. Anyway, I'm an atheist now and I think that if everyone would actually study the Bible and I mean really STUDY and be honest with themselves about what they are reading and how it makes them feel... there would be a lot more atheists in this world.


I study, and i mean actually study the bible everyday. 

If people would actually delve into the bible they would find faith in Christ and healing for their life.

If you want real joy, it's found in practicing the teachings of the Holy Bible. 

I would like to know what you found and why it lead you to the decisions you have come to.

Sometimes feelings can be deceptive, Christianity is based on faith. Not feelings.

Also, I find it illogical to base your eternal life on a feeling.

Base your judgement by what comes from the experience.

Is what I am doing beneficial? Am i reaping positive benefits in my faith?

What are the pros and cons of Believing vs. Not Believing

Risks:

Why do so many people believe?

Why do scholars and scientists believe in God?

Surely they have good reasons.

What are those reasons?

These are all very important questions you need to ask yourself before you throw away your faith.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 28, 2013)

Romans 10:9-11 
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. [SUP]11 [/SUP]As the Scriptures tell us, &#8220;Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.&#8221;[SUP][e[/SUP]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 28, 2013)

Luke 12:8-12
[SUP]8 [/SUP]&#8220;I tell you the truth, everyone who acknowledges me publicly here on earth, the Son of Man[SUP][c][/SUP] will also acknowledge in the presence of God&#8217;s angels. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But anyone who denies me here on earth will be denied before God&#8217;s angels. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.



[SUP]11 [/SUP]&#8220;And when you are brought to trial in the synagogues and before rulers and authorities, don&#8217;t worry about how to defend yourself or what to say, [SUP]12 [/SUP]for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what needs to be said.&#8221;


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## tyler.durden (Jan 28, 2013)

Hey OG. Take the time to watch this short video, and let me know your thoughts on the views presented here. I think you'll find it interesting...

[video=youtube;8Eam-z1bwrk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eam-z1bwrk[/video]


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 28, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I study, and i mean actually study the bible everyday.
> 
> If people would actually delve into the bible they would find faith in Christ and healing for their life.
> 
> ...


Well, this is such a broad subject that it might be rather difficult to give you an answer that is as thorough and coherent as I'd like; it would just take so long and I'd wind up writing a book. I have a few questions for you before I can respond though, if you don't mind. 

When you say you "study the Bible everyday", can you define "study"? When I use the word study, I am meaning to think about what it is saying and leaving apologetics out of it; reading it critically not just for memorization. I asked questions when I studied, questions such as "is this moral", "how was this miracle accomplished", and so on. When I ask "how was this miracle accomplished" I'm not asking the question "how was this trick performed" as one would after observing a illusionist. I'm asking what physical laws and properties had to change in order for this to happen. For example, when Jesus turned the water to wine... what happened to the molecules in order to be transformed... what did Jesus cause to happen at the molecular level? In Exodus, when the staff was turned into a serpant obviously the wood fibers, cellulose, and plant cells had to somehow change into animals cells. How did water gush forth from a stone?

Other questions one must ask, and many children DO indeed ask as the stories are so fantastic that they just aren't believable to someone that hasn't gained the ability to rationalize. That was my problem as a young child in sunday school. I believed the stories happened, I just wanted to know how. A prime example is Noah's Ark. I'm sure you've heard the questions before: "how did they fit all the animals onto the ark", "how did they get all of them onto the ark", "how did they keep them from killing each other", and "how did they distribute the kangaroos to Australia, the penguins to Antarctica and the alpacas to South America after landing on Mount Ararat"? These are the types of questions I asked as a kid and I KNOW I'm not the only one. Usually the type of answers I would get were "we weren't meant to know", "we will have to ask God when we get to heaven", "it's all part of his plan", "we weren't meant to understand", "we can't possibly understand God", etc. All of which were non-answers. There were a few times where I was actually scolded by a sunday school teacher and told to stop asking questions because that's what the devil wants us to do.

I've deviated from your questions a bit... I apologize. In response to your claim that if people would read the Bible, they'd all find faith in Christ. Did you know that a large percentage of people that enter seminary become atheists? That's what happens when you learn about Bible history, the obscure tales, the real nitty-gritty of it all. One thing I noticed while still a Christian, is that most Christians see religion and the Bible as a buffet; they pick the stuff the like and ignore the rest. This leads to even more contradictions. A very VERY common example is the genocide, stoning, and other immoral actions mandated in the Old Testament. People almost always say, "well when Jesus came we no longer needed the old testament. That doesn't apply anymore". Well obviously it does because the Ten Commandments are in there and I don't know any Christian that thinks we should get rid of THEM. We would also have to scrap all the prophecy that fortold of the coming of the messiah. I could give other examples, but I want to avoid being as verbose as I tend to be. 

I found real joy in seeing the world as it really was. I discovered I didn't need God to explain ANYTHING and the explanations which didn't include "God" made a lot more sense than those that did. The feelings I had when I was a Christian, I feel them now as an atheist. The same feelings you get when you hear Shout to the Lord by Darlene Zschech is exactly the same feelings I get when I hear American Pie by Don McLean. With that said, I dare say that in Christianity the only reinforcement to faith is feelings. Feelings had absolutely nothing to do with me becoming atheist. I wanted to believe, I wanted to know God and his will, I prayed to him for guidance and to show me his true religion. This went on for at least a decade, probably much longer. If God wanted my trust and my devotion, why did He make it so hard to understand Him? Why did he hide? Why would he do things to confuse me and "test my faith"? 

The thing I've heard from so many Christians when they ask me about my beliefs is "why would you want to believe that? I'd rather believe...". You say it's not based on feelings, but what else do Christians really have? They have hopes and desires for a better life, for cosmic justice, to see family again. These are emotional at the very core; dispair, anger, lust for revenge, lonliness, etc. Most Christians aren't even honest with themselves when it comes to what faith really is. I once heard the example, "I have faith that this chair will hold me up when I sit on it". That's equivocation; please look it up if you don't know what it means because it is important. When Christians say they have "faith" what they are really saying is the following: This story is so contradictory to what I know of the universe, it is so fantastic as to be unbelievable, but I will believe it because that is what I have to do to get into heaven. The more outrageous the story I believe, the more faith I have and I will be rewarded for it.

Do you believe in alien abductions? 

If I understand right, according to the end of your post, you chose to follow Christianity because of it's perceived benefits and rewards? Don't you think God would see through that. Isn't that being a bit insincere?

To be honest, I had a career in academia for a while and I could probably count on one hand the number of people I met that believed in any god. Take the book "In Seven Days" I cannot remember the author. In this book there are many "scientists" that supposedly give evidence for God. ALL literally ALL of the evidence is junk science and I doubt so very seriously that any of the contributors are respected in their field. The funniest thing though was that most of the contributors were talking as an authority on subjects outside of their field. There was a botanist talking about geology for example. She compared deposits under bridges to stalactites in caves. "See! It doesn't take hundreds of thousands of years for stalactites to form, this bridge has them and it is only ten months old." That's not a direct quote, but a very accurate paraphrase. 

No, I've never EVER met anyone that had a good reason for believing in God. Zaehet can appreciate this I'm sure, "There can't be a practical reason for believing what isn't true. [...] Either a thing is true or it isn't. If it is true you should believe it and if it isn't you shouldn't. If you can't find out whether it is true or whether it isn't you should suspend judgement. [...] It's treachery to intelluctual integrity to hold a belief because you think it's useful and not because you think it's true."

As a believer that has seen "miracles" and was pursuing a career based on my beliefs, don't you think I would have very good, logically sound reasons and have thought about it very VERY thoroughly before I throw away my faith? I spent years looking for the answers. I went to nearly every denomination that exists to talk to them hoping they could help me. Christadelphians, SDA, LDS, so on. Also I spent time with other non-traditional religions such as Eckankar, Raelians... yikes!, and the "Hare Krishnas". 

Maybe that answered some of your questions. I hope you were really wanting an answer and weren't just waiting for your turn to reply to expected answers. Just one more thing that I find very interesting and important to me at least. Mother Teresa and I are a lot alike, did you know she was pretty much an atheist herself? If any of my answers didn't make sense, please let me know. I was just writing as it occured to me, so it may not always flow well.


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## tyler.durden (Jan 28, 2013)

^^ Good post, I enjoyed that. BTW, love the avatar and name, +rep...


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## Beefbisquit (Jan 28, 2013)

[video=youtube_share;TMnThZgN-PM]http://youtu.be/TMnThZgN-PM[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 28, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Well, this is such a broad subject that it might be rather difficult to give you an answer that is as thorough and coherent as I'd like; it would just take so long and I'd wind up writing a book. I have a few questions for you before I can respond though, if you don't mind.
> 
> When you say you "study the Bible everyday", can you define "study"? When I use the word study, I am meaning to think about what it is saying and leaving apologetics out of it; reading it critically not just for memorization. I asked questions when I studied, questions such as "is this moral", "how was this miracle accomplished", and so on. When I ask "how was this miracle accomplished" I'm not asking the question "how was this trick performed" as one would after observing a illusionist. I'm asking what physical laws and properties had to change in order for this to happen. For example, when Jesus turned the water to wine... what happened to the molecules in order to be transformed... what did Jesus cause to happen at the molecular level? In Exodus, when the staff was turned into a serpant obviously the wood fibers, cellulose, and plant cells had to somehow change into animals cells. How did water gush forth from a stone?
> 
> ...


I'm not going to write a full reply until tomorrow, but a part of me feels like it would be dishonest for me to read this and not immediately respond.
It's almost 6 a.m. here, and i have had trouble sleeping, so apologize if this is not a perfect abbreviated response.
I will continue this discussion with you tomorrow and look forward to doing so.

Study means to read and decipher as much truth and wisdom as possible from the subject matter.
To meditate upon.
Like squeezing lemon juice* from lemons.
I also wonder about the miracles,
but I also understand that miracles are miracles because they can't be explained by physical laws.
The power of God is endless and non-tangible.
The arc question is great,
I'm thinking God created animals on different continents, 
Kind of like how the bible says that Adam and Eve were
the first man and woman, but then when Cain kills abel
Cain goes to other humans.
Either Adam and Eve were the first _Hebrew_ Individuals.. Or while they were alive God was busy creating others.
It seems strange to wonder how God makes water appear from a stone or turns water into wine when He created the entire universe with just His Words.



The Holy Spirit is the proof that the promise of Christ is true..
The Holy spirit is the white light that shines out of the whites of the eyes.
Usually one eye is brighter than the other, unless you have been very diligent in your walk with God
And studying His word everyday, for a decent amount of time and being careful not to sin.
You can feel the Holy Spirit in you, I know i said not to base your faith on feelings.
But if we have to start with sensory evidence, then this is where we will start.
If you spend time reading the Holy Bible for while it will charge your spirit and you will be able to tell that inside you there is a part of your spirit that is more cold and Holy than the other spiritual matter inside your being.
It will correspond with whiteness in the eyes,
The side where the Spirit of God is the strongest will shine more brightly out of the white(s) of your eye(s).
Notice how the eye on your right, her left eye is more blue and white in the white part of her eye?
That is the Holy Ghost.


This is a touchy subject, but i feel compelled to talk about it.
The Old Testament.
To keep God's people uncorrupted and uninfluenced over a long period of time it was necessary to purge Israel of all of the former inhabitants.
You must remember that while God is kind, He is also very severe. i.e. Hell

Romans 11:22
New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.

When it comes to morality, you must remember that we are talking about God.
Who can judge Him?
He is all knowing, therefore regardless of his actions we know they are perfect.
We are ants in His ant farm,
And i suppose if He wants to do as He pleases with us, Who are we to argue.
The LORD gives, the LORD takes away.
Also sometimes sorrow and pain is good because it leads us away from sin 
2 Corinthians 7:8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]I am not sorry that I sent that severe letter to you, though I was sorry at first, for I know it was painful to you for a little while. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Now I am glad I sent it, not because it hurt you, but because the pain caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants his people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There&#8217;s no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death.


Where are you getting this data about a large percentage of people entering seminary become atheists?
I find this to be non-logical and unrealistic.

If you are getting the same feelings to american pie as you are worship music,
then when you see a Picaso does it give you the same feelings as looking at a Michelangelo painting?
I find this to be very extreme and this makes me question your ability to delineate sensory experiences.
Are you completely serious? Or are you just using an off-hand example?
Or maybe you don't think of God reverently.
Still though.. either way it still sounds off to me. With total respect.

I will answer the rest of your inquiry tomorrow.


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## Saltrock (Jan 28, 2013)

I have battled with with religion for a while. I have come to the conclusion I lean on the side that it's just a story or a guide line on how to live life and deal with the trials and tribulations of life. The one thing about the bible it has all these stories with people flying, miracles happening, splitting the red sea with a staff, all these amazing super human stories. Yet not one human in since those times has performed such actions, nor have we seen any evidence of gods existence. You are going to have to give me more then a beautiful flower formation or peacock feathers to convince me god exists. 

God would never allow 250,000 people to die in a tsunami. What also bothers me is when someone dies and a religious person says god wanted him/her up in heaven. People say when they attended church they feel good, positive and inspired. I'll tell you one thing, people have had the same feeling walking out of a tony robbins seminar. 

Personally I would love to think that our souls go up to heaven and we get to see our family and friends again. But my gut feeling tells me once we die that might be it. So if there is a chance that I am wrong and there is a heaven and do live my life as a good person pretty much in uniform with the bible , you are going to tell me god is going to send me to hell, just because I didn't except him into my heart even though I lived my life as a good human being?

Peace
Salt


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 28, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> what did Jesus cause to happen at the molecular level? In Exodus, when the staff was turned into a serpant obviously the wood fibers, cellulose, and plant cells had to somehow change into animals cells. How did water gush forth from a stone?


...hi  Just a question for you. Are the building blocks in nature made of energy, matter, and consciousness?

...staff = spine, so far as I understand it. Turning that into a serpent is raising one's consciousness.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 28, 2013)

^This is a great example of how anyone, anywhere, can twist the interpretations of the words of the bible into ANYTHING they want.

Great post btw Nietzsche... but it sucks, because i doubt the dude read past the first paragraph.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 28, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> ^This is a great example of how anyone, anywhere, can twist the interpretations of the words of the bible into ANYTHING they want.
> 
> Great post btw Nietzsche... but it sucks, because i doubt the dude read past the first paragraph.


...hi strife, this for me? Cause, those books have been around for thousands of years. No need to twist anything but a joint


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 28, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...
> ...staff = spine, so far as I understand it. Turning that into a serpent is raising one's consciousness.


Staff does not = spine, staff = staff. The staff turns into a serpent through magic, or a miracle if you please. Nowhere does it ever mention anything about the staff being a metaphor for a spine...or raising ones consciousness. That is your interpretation, your twist of the words... this is what apologetics do, they twist the words of the religious texts they read into subjective metaphors to suit their own desires. 

You gave us a perfect example of this happening.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 28, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Staff does not = spine, staff = staff. The staff turns into a serpent through magic, or a miracle if you please. Nowhere does it ever mention anything about the staff being a metaphor for a spine. That is your interpretation, your twist of the words... this is what apologetics do, they twist the words of the religious texts they read into subjective metaphors to suit their own desires.
> 
> You gave us a perfect example of this happening.


I believe eye has stated in the past something like that the inner world is subjective and therefore requires interpretation subject to the narrative of the individual, which is created by experiencing the individual. I believe eye is trying to suit his own narrative rather than suit his desire to make others believe, which is what apologetics do. Eye may twist words, apologetics twist logic.

Other than that I agree with you. I am not sure how the bible gets to be the outter world guidebook for the inner narrative.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 28, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I believe eye has stated in the past something like that the inner world is subjective and therefore requires interpretation subject to the narrative of the individual, which is created by experiencing the individual. I believe eye is trying to suit his own narrative rather than suit his desire to make others believe, which is what apologetics do. Eye may twist words, apologetics twist logic.
> 
> Other than that I agree with you. I am not sure how the bible gets to be the outter world guidebook for the inner narrative.


You're right Heis, i should have used a different word than apologetic... though i can't think of the right one.

But even if he is trying to suit his own narrative, would that also not consist of him satisfying his desire to make the interperatation what he pleases?


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## Heisenberg (Jan 28, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> You're right Heis, i should have used a different word than apologetic... though i can't think of the right one.
> 
> But even if he is trying to suit his own narrative, would that also not consist of him satisfying his desire to make the interperatation what he pleases?


The term many skeptics would use is mental masturbation. It may sound like a cynical term, but it basically means exploring the creativity of your own imagination to produce a good feeling. A sophisticated and ritualistic form of fantasizing. I am not sure this is what eye is doing, but it seems to be the term you are reaching for.

This is why dualism is confusing to materialist. The inner world is facilitated by the physical world via the brain and environment, but the inner world is it's own domain, each one with the same capacity as the universe which it came from, each with a narrative shaped by experience. Just as each universe can have it's own set of fundamentals in multiverse theory, each innerverse is subject to itself, meaning materialistic rules are not as important as they are in the physical world, and sometimes get in the way.

Of course this is special pleading, but remember special pleading is not automatically invalid. It depends on the reasons given. Since there is no way to demonstrate any of this, I guess we'll never know if this special pleading is different than others.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 28, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Staff does not = spine, staff = staff. The staff turns into a serpent through magic, or a miracle if you please. Nowhere does it ever mention anything about the staff being a metaphor for a spine...or raising ones consciousness. That is your interpretation, your twist of the words... this is what apologetics do, they twist the words of the religious texts they read into subjective metaphors to suit their own desires.
> 
> You gave us a perfect example of this happening.


...as I was about to reply, I started to read Heis' post just below. He summed it up great.

...as to the bible / all holy books: by mistake it gets to be the outer world guide book. "To err is human", everything else out there looks like it's doing alright


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 28, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> would that also not consist of him satisfying his desire to make the interpretation what he pleases?


...how so? Genesis, by definition, is 'the beginning'. The genesis of every single person / thing alive is 'the beginning' of its existence.

...take the Hindu, or most other eastern religions. Their cultures pump out doctors and etc like mad, yet some believe an elephant, or turtle (etc), is holding up the world? K, so if I don't see one holding up their part of the world, then what? Oh, must be deeper meaning  Dig.?


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## ginjawarrior (Jan 28, 2013)

i've seen it suggested by scientist that before the big bang (genesis) there were many smaller failed big bangs

applying eye's logic i am now looking at my box of kleenex in a different light XD


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 28, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Well, this is such a broad subject that it might be rather difficult to give you an answer that is as thorough and coherent as I'd like; it would just take so long and I'd wind up writing a book. I have a few questions for you before I can respond though, if you don't mind.
> 
> When you say you "study the Bible everyday", can you define "study"? When I use the word study, I am meaning to think about what it is saying and leaving apologetics out of it; reading it critically not just for memorization. I asked questions when I studied, questions such as "is this moral", "how was this miracle accomplished", and so on. When I ask "how was this miracle accomplished" I'm not asking the question "how was this trick performed" as one would after observing a illusionist. I'm asking what physical laws and properties had to change in order for this to happen. For example, when Jesus turned the water to wine... what happened to the molecules in order to be transformed... what did Jesus cause to happen at the molecular level? In Exodus, when the staff was turned into a serpant obviously the wood fibers, cellulose, and plant cells had to somehow change into animals cells. How did water gush forth from a stone?
> 
> ...


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 28, 2013)

Please forgive me for not responding earlier, I've had a horrible "migraine" ALL day. I'd like to respond to your first paragraph now, then I will respond to your later comments. 

_"Study means to read and decipher as much truth and wisdom as possible from the subject matter.
To meditate upon.
Like squeezing lemonade from lemons.
I also wonder about the miracles,
but I also understand that *miracles are miracles because they can't be explained by physical laws*.
The power of God is endless and non-tangible.
The arc question is great,
*I'm thinking God created animals on different continents*, 
Kind of like how the bible says that Adam and Eve were
the first man and woman, but then when Cain kills abel
Cain goes to other humans.
*Either Adam and Eve were the first Hebrew Individuals.. Or while they were alive God was busy creating others.*"

_I do not know if I can write this and it not come across as arrogant or condescending, that is certainly not my intention. Please keep that in mind while reading.

First, reread your statements. You probably do not realize it, but you are doing exactly what I was talking about. You are getting into apologetics and in doing so, you are ignoring certain biblical statements and adding your own; you are not just interpreting. Allow me to illustrate: 

The Bible says in Genesis 6:17 &#8220;Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; *everything that is on the earth shall perish*&#8221;. (I am using the New American Standard Version because it is a very literal translation and considered quite liberal by some. Another fact that I find very interesting, nowhere that I can found in the Qur&#8217;an does it say that the flood was worldwide. Also, everything includes plants which help us breathe.) This verse is very specific and explicit about destroying EVERYTHING, so it is irrelevant if God created animals on different continents as they would have all been destroyed and would necessarily be rehabitated, not sure if that is the correct word. If they did not have to be brought back to their appropriate continents, then either the Bible is incorrect (was not worldwide flood) or God did not do what he set out to do (kill everything)&#8230; I cannot think of any other possibilities. Another thing one must consider if you believe the animals were created on different continents and brought together for 40 at least 40 days is that fact that many of the animals would have a hard time surviving in the middle eastern climate, this would allow for the spread of pathogens to which many organisms had no natural immunity. 

My best friend is a pastor and a very good one at that and his response to my question was &#8220;Well, [NietzscheKeen], have you ever heard of Pangaea?&#8221; He thought continental drift was an adequate explanation, but this would mean the continents drifted the distances they have today in only a few thousand years. I have a relative that actually studies continental drift and is Christian and very intellectually honest and he makes no claims of a new earth or continents drifting at a different speed than purported by mainstream science. 

I got a little off track there. My point was supposed to be that you are not allowed to come up with your own answers; you have to go with what the Bible says. Here is my observation. In childhood/Sunday school, the purpose is to reinforce the Bible stories into the child&#8217;s mind as true, true, true. Once is it in there and the individual gets older, then the apologetics naturally begins in an effort to reconcile the things that do not make sense. Pay attention the next time you are in church or are reading your Bible, see how many times you do this. You will really have to pay attention, because it is hard to catch, especially if one has been doing it for a while. Above, I have put into bold the statements onto which you have put your own meaning/interpretation using no reference to any other scripture. The Bible says Adam and Eve were the first people and no others were mentioned as being created (although there were other verses that hint that this wasn&#8217;t accurate; Word Faith Movement figureheads Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn teach that there WERE indeed people here BEFORE Adam and Eve, but that they were destroyed. They point to some obscure verse in Isaiah, which I cannot recall at this time.) 

I will give a bit of one of my old sermons as a prelude to my comment on &#8220;physical laws&#8221;. 

Esther 8:8 &#8220;Now you write to the Jews as you see fit, in the king&#8217;s name, and seal it with the king&#8217;s signet ring; *for a decree which is written in the name of the king and sealed with the king&#8217;s signet ring may not be revoked*.&#8221;
Daniel 6:8 &#8220;Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document so that it may not be changed, *according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked*.&#8221;
Daniel 6:12 &#8220;Then they approached and spoke before the king about the king&#8217;s injunction, &#8220;Did you not sign an injunction that any man who makes a petition to any god or man besides you, O king, for thirty days, is to be cast into the lions&#8217; den?&#8221; The king replied, &#8220;*The statement is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked*.&#8221;

As mirrored in the scriptures as in science, the laws of physics cannot be changed. Once God puts something into law, he cannot change it. Go ahead and read the chapters in full, do not ever take one verse as proof; they must be used in context. Even if this is not the case, the miracles must be available for physical description i.e. what exactly happened at the molecular level when the water became wine?

Take care to squeeze only lemon juice from lemons, not lemonade as lemonade is made by adding other ingredients to it until it is palatable. 

More to come...


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 28, 2013)

"The Holy Spirit is the proof that the promise of Christ is true..
The Holy spirit is the white light that shines out of the whites of the eyes.
Usually one eye is brighter than the other, unless you have been very diligent in your walk with God
And studying His word everyday, for a decent amount of time and being careful not to sin.
You can feel the Holy Spirit in you, I know i said not to base your faith on feelings.
But if we have to start with sensory evidence, then this is where we will start.
If you spend time reading the Holy Bible for while it will charge your spirit and you will be able to tell that inside you there is a part of your spirit that is more cold and Holy than the other spiritual matter inside your being.
It will correspond with whiteness in the eyes,
The side where the Spirit of God is the strongest will shine more brightly out of the white(s) of your eye(s).
Notice how the eye on your right, her left eye is more blue and white in the white part of her eye?
That is the Holy Ghost."

This is just non-sense, I'm sorry. Where are you getting that our eyes shine? 
"The Holy Spirit is the proof that the promise of Christ is true." What is proof of the Holy Spirit? The fact that this persons eyes aren't exactly the same? I have a friend that literally has one brown eye and one blue eye. There are several medical conditions such as jaundice in addition to eyes just being different. No human is perfectly symmetrical. I wonder if this person in the photo "found Jesus" would this "correct" or change her eyes? Is this the best evidence you have for the holy spirit? Surely it isn't.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 28, 2013)

_This is a touchy subject, but i feel compelled to talk about it.
The Old Testament.
To keep God's people uncorrupted and uninfluenced over a long period of time it was necessary to purge Israel of all of the former inhabitants.
You must remember that while God is kind, He is also very severe. i.e. Hell

Romans 11:22
New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.

When it comes to morality, you must remember that we are talking about God.
Who can judge Him?
He is all knowing, therefore regardless of his actions we know they are perfect.
We are ants in His ant farm,
And i suppose if He wants to do as He pleases with us, Who are we to argue.
The LORD gives, the LORD takes away.
Also sometimes sorrow and pain is good because it leads us away from sin 
2 Corinthians 7:8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]I am not sorry that I sent that severe letter to you, though I was sorry at first, for I know it was painful to you for a little while. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Now I am glad I sent it, not because it hurt you, but because the pain caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants his people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. Theres no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death.

_My response to this will take a while, so I am going to skip it for now, but check back later ok?


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 28, 2013)

_Where are you getting this data about a large percentage of people entering seminary become atheists?
I find this to be non-logical and unrealistic.


_I'm getting this data from personal experience. In fact, if you find an honest preacher or better yet, email an instructor at any seminary and ask them; I'm sure they will say the same thing. In addition, Daniel Dennett did research and a survey on atheist pastors and people that became atheist when they entered seminary. Believe me, several of my friends went through seminary and while they themselves did not come out atheist, or at least do not admit it, they also admit that many people did begin to question their faith while in seminary. It comes from learning the truth about how the Bible was written. I can't get into that and do it justice, but google "Council of Nicaea", watch a documentary about how the Bible was made, watch one about the dead sea scrolls. This will give you some information that you really should have. 

_If you are getting the same feelings to american pie as you are worship music,
then when you see a Picaso does it give you the same feelings as looking at a Michelangelo painting?
I find this to be very extreme and this makes me question your ability to delineate sensory experiences.
Are you completely serious? Or are you just using an off-hand example?
Or maybe you don't think of God reverently.
Still though.. either way it still sounds off to me. With total respect.
_
Yes, I do get the same feeling while looking at Picaso as I do Michelangelo, although I've never seen either in real life. I don't really get those feelings with art, though I have and in one instance that I recal, the painting was just a few rectangles and a circle. Just for fun, look up Stendhal syndrome. Lol, well my sensory experience are MY sensory experiences, so I have no way to prove to you that I'm being sincere and not insane. Yes, I'm being completely serious. Have you never had an emotional experience to something that wasn't religious? I have witnessed some "miracles" in my life.. one that was a huge deal to a LOT of people, but I have since then been honest and recognize that I have experienced the same feeling in other mundane areas in my life. To be honest, I am still reverent, but not to any god. I'm more or less a Spinozist now and there is nothing spiritual about that. I guess my statements will have to sound off then because I can't think of anyway to prove them to you since they are personal to me and me alone. I am willing to bet, though this proves nothing, that others have experienced the same emotional response to non-religious experiences as I. 

*Has anyone ever had an emotional experience while listening to music, looking at an art exhibit or landscape, reading a poem, etc.? Can anyone relate to my comments above?
*


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 28, 2013)

@ginjawarrior, I often think of the Big Bang as an expanding universe dividing into two similar universes, exactly as a cell does. The DNA of the universe is the laws of Physics.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 28, 2013)

No, Eye.

_...take the Hindu, or most other eastern religions. Their cultures pump out doctors and etc like mad, yet some believe an elephant, or turtle (etc), is holding up the world? K, so if I don't see one holding up their part of the world, then what? Oh, must be deeper meaning




Dig.?

_I've also done some study of the Vedas and lived at a Hindu temple for nearly a year. Just because one religion uses metaphors and myth does not mean that they ALL require the same type of interpretation. I don't see Vishnu or Ganesha, but I also don't see Jehovah. 

Also
_those books have been around for thousands of years.
_The Epic of Gilgamesh and the Greek & Roman myths are also older than the Bible, but I'd bet you don't believe in Zeus or Apollo or Enki. You can't judge truth based on how old a book is. Take for example many early medical books. Most of them don't properly explain physiology.

and NO! consciousness is not a building block.


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## 420circuit (Jan 28, 2013)

Wow, some of you are taking this into great detail, perhaps more than the subject merits. During a recent surgery I had the opportunity to see what is after life and was surprised to see that it is a gateway. It looks like a stone arch gateway. Some day, probably your last one, you will look back and say, holy crap, some post on an online forum mentioned this and here I am, at a stone arch gateway gaining entry to a huge park-like setting with different colored light. I was sent back to tell you that there is an afterlife and that the thought that we are all souls with bodies is correct. Not kidding.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 29, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Hey OG. Take the time to watch this short video, and let me know your thoughts on the views presented here. I think you'll find it interesting...
> 
> [video=youtube;8Eam-z1bwrk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eam-z1bwrk[/video]


I think that if God wasn't real, and if religion was just a hoax.. This would be a very logical argument. And i think it makes a few really good points. But also it's based on the assumption that religious individuals are being controlling or condescending in the way they are presenting their beliefs. So i suppose in reality the entire video is based on the idea that all religious people are going to be acting like a controlling parent, which i see to be biased.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 29, 2013)

I have given evidence for my claims and made a logical appeal.
But in the end, you must believe in God.. Which takes faith.
We are made right with God through faith.

I think this is what you guys are stepping over, Christianity is based on *faith*. Faith is not just a cop-out, it's the requirement.
Therefore you aren't going to find a science experiment that can answer all of your religious questions.

*Galatians 3*

New Living Translation (NLT)

*The Law and Faith in Christ*

3 Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ&#8217;s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. [SUP]3 [/SUP]How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have you experienced[SUP][a][/SUP] so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In the same way, &#8220;Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.&#8221;[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP]The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]What&#8217;s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, &#8220;All nations will be blessed through you.&#8221;[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]9 [/SUP]So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, &#8220;Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God&#8217;s Book of the Law.&#8221;[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, &#8220;It is through faith that a righteous person has life.&#8221;[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, &#8220;It is through obeying the law that a person has life.&#8221;[SUP][f][/SUP]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, &#8220;Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.&#8221;[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]14 [/SUP]Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised[SUP][h][/SUP] Holy Spirit through faith.
*The Law and God&#8217;s Promise*

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Dear brothers and sisters,[SUP][i][/SUP] here&#8217;s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. [SUP]16 [/SUP]God gave the promises to Abraham and his child.[SUP][j][/SUP] And notice that the Scripture doesn&#8217;t say &#8220;to his children,[SUP][k][/SUP]&#8221; as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says &#8220;to his child&#8221;&#8212;and that, of course, means Christ. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God&#8217;s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is there a conflict, then, between God&#8217;s law and God&#8217;s promises?[SUP][l][/SUP] Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God&#8217;s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.
*God&#8217;s Children through Faith*

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all children[SUP][m][/SUP] of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.[SUP][n][/SUP] [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is no longer Jew or Gentile,[SUP][o][/SUP] slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[SUP][p][/SUP] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God&#8217;s promise to Abraham belongs to you.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 29, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I think that if God wasn't real, and if religion was just a hoax.. This would be a very logical argument. And i think it makes a few really good points. But also it's based on the assumption that religious individuals are being controlling or condescending in the way they are presenting their beliefs. So i suppose in reality the entire video is based on the idea that all religious people are going to be acting like a controlling parent, which i see to be biased.


That really surprises me, and i feel a certain amount of respect for you that you actually watched that video. That is something not many religious people would do, and i applaud your courage of thinking about ideas contrary to your own. Plus rep for that. I was wondering if you would try just one more video, there are two parts, but you don't have to watch both. Try it, and tell me how you feel about it when you are done, they aren't very long either so it's not like you are going to be sitting around for an hour. Check it out, let me know what you think, you have me impressed... which is not something that happens easily. 


[video=youtube;syNVg8V4EQU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syNVg8V4EQU[/video]

Try this one out, it's not long, let me know what you think.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 29, 2013)

I think the experiments in the end seem to be based on one instance, rather than being based on multiple experiments. People are going to naturally think of their faith when consulting death, over-all this video did not provoke my intellectual processes. I have heard and have seen all of these arguments.. Again it comes down to what you choose to believe. Any amount of evidence can be given to an individual, but in the end.. That person has to choose to accept it.

I really don't mean to be offensive, and you have my respect.
I hope you took the time to watch the videos i posted as well.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 29, 2013)

I thought evidence and faith, as defined by religion, was mutually exclusive...
_
Again it comes down to what you choose to believe_

And THAT right there is the core different between religious people and many non-religious people; it doesn't matter what we WANT to believe. We don't CHOOSE to believe. We believe what the evidence supports. I wanted to believe in God so badly, but there was so much that pointed me in the opposite direction that I just couldn't go on believing.

@ OG420, Do you choose to accept the evidence of alien abductions?

@Zaehet, 6:07 in the video you shared. That is when my spiritual search for the truth began. Someone asked me why I was Baptist and my only answer was "because that's what my parents are". A broader question is why am I Christian? Well, because I was born in 20th century USA. Neither of which are reasons to believe anything.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 29, 2013)

I really don't want to talk about alien abductions in this thread.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 29, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> "The Holy Spirit is the proof that the promise of Christ is true..
> The Holy spirit is the white light that shines out of the whites of the eyes.
> Usually one eye is brighter than the other, unless you have been very diligent in your walk with God
> And studying His word everyday, for a decent amount of time and being careful not to sin.
> ...


I'm talking about the spirit behind the sclera, if you look closely at this pastors eyes you can see in her left sclera (white of the eye) (on your right) The Holy Ghost. View attachment 2501331
Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you, but i know based on my personal experience that this is the Holy Ghost. I can always tell if people are Christians based on the Spirit behind the whites of their eyes. If they are bright and seem to be "Lit up" than i can assert that they have the holy ghost. What i mean by "Lit up" is shown between the contrast of this pastors left and right eyes. Her left sclera being (Lit up) more white and blue, her right eye being normal. This is not the camera angle or lighting.

Notice how her left eye (The white of the eye on the right side of the picture) seems to draw you in and is more pleasing to the eye.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 29, 2013)

I find it interesting that you are arguing that there is no God, when there cannot be any evidence to support this belief.. Nor does there seem to be any logical reason to argue this point, or any benefit to believing there is no God. The responses often seem so adamant and emotional. I have a hard time relating to this way of thinking.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 29, 2013)

Jesus says if someone asks you to go one mile go two.
So i tried watching the second video of "death" that you posted Zaehet
but at 9:13 minutes i had an acute sensation of nausea that seemed to be brought on by the subject matter and i decided to stop.
The cold, drab, and hopeless world of the atheists is an ideology that my spirit cannot bear.



*Come to the Light and Warmth of Christ*

*&#8220;If you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.&#8221;* *&#8212; Romans 10:9

Experience the full life of the children of God.
To be truly alive, with God living within you.
*


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 29, 2013)

[video=youtube;NZbQBajYnEc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEc[/video]


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 29, 2013)

The discussion is over if you do not answer this RELEVENT question.

Do you believe in alien abductions?

I've done my best to answer your questions at least answer one more for me. I've asked it three times now.

Also, my world is not dark, drab, and hopeless; It's more beautiful than it ever was. A flower became so much more amazing when I realized what it had to go through for all those millions of years to be what it is today as opposed to just appearing in a puff of smoke. I believe evolution, real evolution not this crap they teach in creationist museums, is much more amazing than something just being created. And the fact that it is explained in much greater detail and answers all of the questions that the Bible couldn't, well that sealed it for me.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 29, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> No, Eye.
> 
> _...take the Hindu, or most other eastern religions. Their cultures pump out doctors and etc like mad, yet some believe an elephant, or turtle (etc), is holding up the world? K, so if I don't see one holding up their part of the world, then what? Oh, must be deeper meaning
> 
> ...


...I disagree, respectfully of course. Why do you have the impression that I am referencing only the bible? I am aware of how long other texts have been around. In terms of interpretation, I hadn't intended on getting into how many ways a symbol can be translated. (But, I can if you'd like to. It's part of what I do for a living.)

...I don't base a truth on how old a book is; I am aware of how they've shaped our current state of material and immaterial worlds. I'm saying that trinities (etc) abound in scriptures across the board. Nothing new.

re: NO! Well, what else if not matter, energy and consciousness? Consciousness works with the other two in a perfect state, so how does consciousness not build? Without it, no building. <- building can be translated as psyche here, if you'd like to.

ps: I'd be interested in hearing about your stay at a temple. Could you elaborate?


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 29, 2013)

What if your faith at the moment of death was not in christianity?What if it was in Buddha?Even if at one point it was in christianity and you became totaly disenfranchized with it?Still hellbound?


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 29, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> What if your faith at the moment of death was not in christianity?What if it was in Buddha?Even if at one point it was in christianity and you became totaly disenfranchized with it?Still hellbound?




Luke 12:9 But anyone who denies me here on earth will be denied before God's angels.

My bet is you should stay faithful to Christ and He will stay faithful to you.


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 29, 2013)

Disproving everything in the Bible is simple, all you would have to do is produce the skeleton of Jesus Christ, for if he did not physically rise from the grave, the whole Bible would crumble. It is necessary for all three things, the virgin birth and man life, the death on the cross, and history says he was dead, and then the resurrection. 

Why? without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin, the life is in the blood. Several things of note, Jesus did not carry his cross, he could not, to do so would have been an admission of guilt. 

The stone was not moved yet Jesus was not there. VV


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 29, 2013)

Maybe I misunderstood Eye. Well, Yes energy and matter, but they both boil down to atoms. Atoms are the building blocks.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 29, 2013)

Produce for me, if you will, the skeleton of Thomas Jefferson. I have no reason to believe he existed if you can't prove he existed by showing me his remains.
History doesn't say he (Jesus) was dead and then resurrected... the Bible does.
I believe the story goes that the stone WAS indeed moved.


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 29, 2013)

VictorVIcious said:


> Disproving everything in the Bible is simple, all you would have to do is produce the skeleton of Jesus Christ, for if he did not physically rise from the grave, the whole Bible would crumble. It is necessary for all three things, the virgin birth and man life, the death on the cross, and history says he was dead, and then the resurrection.
> 
> Why? without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin, the life is in the blood. Several things of note, Jesus did not carry his cross, he could not, to do so would have been an admission of guilt.
> 
> The stone was not moved yet Jesus was not there. VV


disproving everything in the bible is simpler than all that. 

you just read genesis, then read any textbook from ANY scientific discipline. 

while some historical data, geography, entries on famous persons of the time, and political organizations is factual, every time the torah, the new testament or the koran delves into the realms of science they are 100% WRONG. 

even their religious and supernatural claims are inconsistent.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 29, 2013)

The entire concept of the bible is ridiculous to begin with. God wrote a book to tell us some really important things, but among them he didn't see fit to include germ theory, nuclear theory, thermodynamics, medical advancement, physiology, biology, mathematics, physics or even the periodic table. The creator of the universe wrote a book which mentions nothing about the elements or mechanics of the universe. Being omniscient, he was aware of the many struggles humans would face against disease, ignorance, nature and fellow man, yet did nothing to help us prepare for those struggles. He mostly talks about himself and how to revere him. He seems to only have wanted to secure his own legacy and rule, and does so not benevolently, but through aggrandization coupled with threats of damnation and torture. On top of that he is a terrible author, boring and disjointed plot, bland one dimensional characters, and heavy use of rape, oppression and violence. He also seems to be pretty lax about accuracy when it comes to historical, scientific and geographical information. The bible fails by any standards at which we judge books today. It certainly bears no indication of divinity and instead has all the earmarks of being cobbled together by ignorant mortals completely unconcerned with wisdom, knowledge or progress.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 29, 2013)

I couldn't agree more Heis, it sucks though that most christians ignore the bad parts in the bible, they pretend they don't exist. 

Og, we aren't saying that we know god/gods do not exist, nor are we saying that we know god/gods do exist.... for all we know god/gods may exist... we are just merely stating the truth. That you can't be certain, no one can be certain... but you can pretend to be, and that is exactly what you are doing whether you realize it or not.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 29, 2013)

Now that's intellectual honesty Zaehet. I couldn't agree more with Heisenberg and Zaehet. 

Since he won't play and answer my question about alien abductions, I'm just going to assume that OG does NOT believe in them. It's strange though, because there is much more evidence for alien abductions than for Jesus or even God. We have eye witness accounts, photos, recorded interviews while pretty much the only thing contained in the Bible is hearsay. As David Cross put it, "the Bible is the worlds longest game of telephone".


----------



## NietzscheKeen (Jan 29, 2013)

It's been a long day, I think I'm going to take the Bible's advice in Proverbs 31:6-7.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 29, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I couldn't agree more Heis, it sucks though that most christians ignore the bad parts in the bible, they pretend they don't exist.
> 
> Og, we aren't saying that we know god/gods do not exist, nor are we saying that we know god/gods do exist.... for all we know god/gods may exist... we are just merely stating the truth. That you can't be certain, no one cant be certain... but you can pretend to be, and that is exactly what you are doing whether you realize it or not.


Of course you are right. Arrogant certitude does nothing to enforce the ideology, and the message we should be sending is not that god isn't real, but that god is unsupported by reason, logic or evidence, and thus, should be treated like any other idea not supported by logic, reason or evidence. I've amended this in my head to be more like.... you can be certain if you want, but don't expect anyone else to be impressed or influenced by that certainty unless you have something more convincing than faith and hubris.

But it extends beyond conceit. It's rather shameful to tout evidence when you have never bothered to learn the definition of evidence. It's misleading to suggest a conclusion when you have done no real investigation. It's irresponsible to pretend integrity when you have no standards of quality. These things are not a matter of personal certainty, they are lies. They are dishonest ammunition in service of an unsupportable ideology which undermines any credibility an honest person could give to the message being conveyed.


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## Saltrock (Jan 29, 2013)

Since god loves US all, and thinks of US as his children. Don't you think he would reveal himself to everybody so that no one would go to hell? Wouldn't it be cool if god came down and did something to physically show us he exists? Just think if someone caught it on video and posted it to youtube. Holy shit , not only would it be the most viewed video EVER, but it would convert so many people to Christianity. Who is the loser now Lucifer lol. 

But that will never happen, so I guess we are just going to have to rely on faith and feeling and one eye brighter then the other. 

We will have to wait for the sound of trumpets filling the sky as the battle on earth beings and good vs evil clash. Those who excepted Christ will be with god and others who didn't except Christ turn in to evil monsters and serve Lucifer. Does that sound about right?

Peace
Salt


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 29, 2013)

@ Heisenberg


So poetic.


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## Dr Kynes (Jan 30, 2013)

Saltrock said:


> Since god loves US all, and thinks of US as his children. Don't you think he would reveal himself to everybody so that no one would go to hell? Wouldn't it be cool if god came down and did something to physically show us he exists? Just think if someone caught it on video and posted it to youtube. Holy shit , not only would it be the most viewed video EVER, but it would convert so many people to Christianity. Who is the loser now Lucifer lol.
> 
> But that will never happen, so I guess we are just going to have to rely on faith and feeling and one eye brighter then the other.
> 
> ...


god is more like the Baby Daddy on the Jerry Springer Show. 

he conceals himself, avoids your momma, doesnt give you shit, spends all his time hanging out with losers and assholes, sells shitty dope to the suckers, and when finally tricked into taking a paternity test, you wish you still didnt know who the prick was.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 30, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...hi  Just a question for you. Are the building blocks in nature made of energy, matter, and consciousness?
> 
> ...staff = spine, so far as I understand it. Turning that into a serpent is raising one's consciousness.


This I understand and agree with completely. A bunch of cultures and religions have people holding staffs that are either a snake or have snakes coiling around the staff. That stuff goes back to the Egyptians.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jan 30, 2013)

Click here for my representation of this thread so far.


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## cannabineer (Jan 30, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...how so? Genesis, by definition, is 'the beginning'. The genesis of every single person / thing alive is 'the beginning' of its existence.
> 
> ...take the Hindu, or most other eastern religions. Their cultures pump out doctors and etc like mad, yet some believe an elephant, or turtle (etc), is holding up the world? K, so if I don't see one holding up their part of the world, then what? Oh, must be deeper meaning  Dig.?


Technically the Greek &#947;&#941;&#957;&#949;&#963;&#953;&#962; translates as "source" or "making". It's much more personal than "beginning" and bespeaks the deliberate, planned nature of creation, which would imo be a better translation than "beginning". cn


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## 420circuit (Jan 30, 2013)

Not kidding here, got a glimpse of the other side and was sent back to report that there is another side. Good way to describe it was put into words a long time ago, "You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body."

Zaehet, I met Carl Sagan the day he moderated a debate, evolution vs creation, on the day he was being awarded "Humanist of the Year." He mentioned Einstein's view that as he increased his understanding of the universe, his appreciation of the greatness of God increased.


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## mindphuk (Jan 30, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> Technically the Greek &#947;&#941;&#957;&#949;&#963;&#953;&#962; translates as "source" or "making". It's much more personal than "beginning" and bespeaks the deliberate, planned nature of creation, which would imo be a better translation than "beginning". cn


Technically, the Greek was attempting to translate the Hebrew bible which says B'reshit, or 'In the Beginning. '


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 30, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> Technically the Greek &#947;&#941;&#957;&#949;&#963;&#953;&#962; translates as "source" or "making". It's much more personal than "beginning" and bespeaks the deliberate, planned nature of creation, which would imo be a better translation than "beginning". cn


...Bereishit is "in the beginning". Considering "God Built" in Genesis, "making" makes sense lol.

...also, I've read the idea of "gen" and "isis", which would be generations of isis. Or, of the universal 'mater' on the 6th day in Yesod / Foundation which is sex. In that act a spark / seed is placed into matter and unfolds in the womb. So yes, agreed that it is more personal.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 30, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> This I understand and agree with completely. A bunch of cultures and religions have people holding staffs that are either a snake or have snakes coiling around the staff. That stuff goes back to the Egyptians.


...that's a whole other level of craziness  Here, this is symbolic of the flow of air from the nostrils to the heart (and below)... Why would that represent any kind of royalty, or knowledge?


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 30, 2013)

420circuit said:


> Not kidding here, got a glimpse of the other side and was sent back to report that there is another side. Good way to describe it was put into words a long time ago, "You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body."
> 
> Zaehet, I met Carl Sagan the day he moderated a debate, evolution vs creation, on the day he was being awarded "Humanist of the Year." He mentioned Einstein's view that as he increased his understanding of the universe, his appreciation of the greatness of God increased.


I can assure you, he in no way was referring to the Abrahamic God of the Bible. Any of Sagans work shows that.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 30, 2013)

420circuit said:


> Good way to describe it was put into words a long time ago, "You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body."


...great post. "with patience possess ye your soul" was a reference to ego death. What you've written here illustrates that, imo. Yours was / is the more drastic route, but hey


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jan 31, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...that's a whole other level of craziness  Here, this is symbolic of the flow of air from the nostrils to the heart (and below)... Why would that represent any kind of royalty, or knowledge?


Good question. Im just familiar with the awakening part. A serpent coiling up the spine, activating the Chakras, and fully awakening a person once it reaches the top. Im guessing theres a certain way to breath in order to get into an enlightened state of mind.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 31, 2013)

420circuit said:


> Not kidding here, got a glimpse of the other side and was sent back to report that there is another side. Good way to describe it was put into words a long time ago, "You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body."
> 
> Zaehet, I met Carl Sagan the day he moderated a debate, evolution vs creation, on the day he was being awarded "Humanist of the Year." He mentioned Einstein's view that as he increased his understanding of the universe, his appreciation of the greatness of God increased.


I love this guy, thank you so much for joining us on this thread.

*Hebrews 11:1*

New Living Translation (NLT)

*Great Examples of Faith*

11 Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see.

[h=3]Romans 15:13[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]I pray that God, the source of hope, will fill you completely with joy and peace because you trust in him. Then you will overflow with confident hope through the power of the Holy Spirit.

[h=3]Romans 8:28[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that God causes everything to work together[SUP][a][/SUP] for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them.

[h=3]Jeremiah 29:11[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For I know the plans I have for you,&#8221; says the Lord. &#8220;They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 31, 2013)

The Lord convicted me to post this.

[h=3]2 Thessalonians 1:7-10[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)



[SUP]7 [/SUP]And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us when the Lord Jesus appears from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don&#8217;t know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus. [SUP]9 [/SUP]They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power. [SUP]10 [/SUP]When he comes on that day, he will receive glory from his holy people&#8212;praise from all who believe. And this includes you, for you believed what we told you about him.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 31, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...that's a whole other level of craziness  Here, this is symbolic of the flow of air from the nostrils to the heart (and below)... Why would that represent any kind of royalty, or knowledge?



My guess on this would be that the serpent represents eternal wisdom,while the cane represents old age,brings to mind the old saying with age comes wisdom.I like how you put it earlier in the thread as far as the staff with the snake being symbolic for the rise in conciousness.Its seems to go from the lowest chakra of base energy to the highest being the soul seat or a.k.a the Crown chakra,interesting nonetheless.Just my 2 cents.


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## meechz 024 (Jan 31, 2013)

I pray that many people will be saved from hell by viewing this thread. 
*People are already living in hell right now on planet earth. The lake of fire is as imaginary of a place as never-never land is..deal with it.
it's not hard as an adult to move on from this dogma. Trust me.*

Jesus is the only way in which we can enter into the gates of heaven. 
His sacrifice enables us to be cleansed from our many sins,
being made righteous through Him.
*Well then you're idea of jesus isn't being fair to the kids who were born into islamic families, let alone Islamic states. They aren't even educated about the glorified (western) version of christianity.....* *Are they suppose to leave their families behind because the other half of the world say's that the western prophet can save them?*
*Does this sound like a logical idea to you?*

Get baptized, and turn from your sin.
*You don't need to dip yourself into bath water, to start living positively. It's called a choice, you make one and follow through with it.*

Know you are going to heaven by doing these three simple things.

Read the bible to find strength and knowledge in God and His path for your life.
*I can read the Karan, Torah, and the Kebra Negast to find strength and knowledge in God. These books don't qualify me a spot in la-la land. They help me in my spiritual journey.*
[/QUOTE]

.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 31, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The Lord convicted me to post this.
> 
> *2 Thessalonians 1:7-10*
> 
> ...



If you believe this, you're not a good person


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 31, 2013)

I pray that God will soften your hearts and remove the blinders from your eyes before it's too late.

Jesus Christ lives within me

[h=3]Galatians 2:20[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]My old self has been crucified with Christ.[SUP][a][/SUP] It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 31, 2013)

[h=3]2 Thessalonians 2[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[h=3]Events prior to the Lord&#8217;s Second Coming[/h]2 Now, dear brothers and sisters,[SUP][a][/SUP] let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Don&#8217;t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don&#8217;t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Don&#8217;t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness[SUP][b][/SUP] is revealed&#8212;the one who brings destruction.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Don&#8217;t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you? [SUP]6 [/SUP]And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. [SUP]10 [/SUP]He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. [SUP]11 [/SUP]So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 31, 2013)

Has the thought ever occurred to you OG, that your beliefs could be wrong?

(_Your predicted reply_)
Yes i've thought about it, but something magical happened that made me think that my beliefs are 100% true without a doubt.

(_My reply_)
Well, isn't it possible that there is a supernatural entity called "Reficule" in existence that is deceiving you into having that magical experience just for fun?

(_Your predicted reply_)
No way! I know the magic i saw came from this other supernatural entity called "God"!

(_My reply_)
Well then, how do you know for sure it was "God" and you weren't being deceived by "Reficule" ????

(_Your predicted reply_)
SHUT THE FUCK UP! Stop asking questions I JUST KNOW, i have FAITH!

(_My reply_)
Hehehehe!


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 31, 2013)

Experience. Wisdom comes from being deceived enough times to spot a lie.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jan 31, 2013)

If you want to be wise, start by treating others with loving kindness.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 31, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If you believe this, you're not a good person


...hey, Pad. I'd like to add a couple of cents here. If you study that book from the perspective of 'conquering' one's base nature - the instinctual, mechanical parts. Those who try receive help, that's the implication. Enemies are always within. It is war, in that sense. Sadly, most people are warring the effects of causes they themselves created. The devil is always outside, never inside. BS. We've got it wrong.


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## meechz 024 (Jan 31, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> If you want to be wise, start by treating others with loving kindness.



i already challenged you sir, i want to be wise. rebuttle this for me

I pray that many people will be saved from hell by viewing this thread. *
People are already living in hell right now on planet earth. The lake of fire is as imaginary of a place as never-never land is..deal with it.
it's not hard as an adult to move on from this dogma. Trust me.

*Jesus is the only way in which we can enter into the gates of heaven. 
His sacrifice enables us to be cleansed from our many sins,
being made righteous through Him.*
Well then you're idea of jesus isn't being fair to the kids who were born into islamic families, let alone Islamic states. They aren't even educated about the glorified (western) version of christianity..... Are they suppose to leave their families behind because the other half of the world say's that the western prophet can save them?
Does this sound like a logical idea to you?

*Get baptized, and turn from your sin.*
You don't need to dip yourself into bath water, to start living positively. It's called a choice, you make one and follow through with it.

*Know you are going to heaven by doing these three simple things.

Read the bible to find strength and knowledge in God and His path for your life.*
I can read the Karan, Torah, and the Kebra Negast to find strength and knowledge in God. These books don't qualify me a spot in la-la land. They help me in my spiritual journey.*


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jan 31, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> If you want to be wise, start by treating others with loving kindness.


Coming from someone who at the start and middle of the thread literally stated that non-believers who have heard the world of the christian doctrine will be tortured and suffer for all the rest of eternity when they die... how ironic huh?

Either way, all of your supernatural experiences have the possibility of being tampered with by "Reficule" , so your sincerity and certainty only point to your desperation that your supernatural beliefs be deemed 100% true, but the truth is, that they may be wrong. 

You are full of more contradictions than Schrodinger's cat in a box.


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## EddyBaked (Jan 31, 2013)

Fuck Jesus he gave me a shitty life


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 31, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...hey, Pad. I'd like to add a couple of cents here. If you study that book from the perspective of 'conquering' one's base nature - the instinctual, mechanical parts. Those who try receive help, that's the implication. Enemies are always within. It is war, in that sense. Sadly, most people are warring the effects of causes they themselves created. The devil is always outside, never inside. BS. We've got it wrong.


I don't understand what that means


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## 420circuit (Jan 31, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I can assure you, he in no way was referring to the Abrahamic God of the Bible. Any of Sagans work shows that.


He was referring to Einstein's quote, not his belief. The debate was attended by mostly science people, so the crowd would respond to some of the biblical references by laughing, which prompted scolding of the crowd by Sagan. The crowd erupted in laughter when the bible defender responded to a question about the fossil record by saying it was a trick by the devil. Carl took the stage and described a beautiful universe that maybe, according to some evidence, is oscillating. You could have heard a pin drop as he said, "but you don't have to decide right now."

The Planetary Society hosted the event and a short time later hosted an event at JPL in Pasadena, to watch the feed from the Voyager mission.


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 1, 2013)

There's no getting through to this guy and he refuses to engage in honest dialogue

Your disingenuous rants and bible quotes don't impress anyone, most of us here have seen and heard it all before and the strongest thing you can come back with is "the bible is truth because the bible says it's true!"

Well gee wiz, you don't say..


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## OldGrowth420 (Feb 1, 2013)

I will no longer be posting on this thread.
I have said all i have to say, 
I feel that these dialogues
are not leading to any positive outcome.

Review the evidence i have given,
make your choices wisely.


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## OldGrowth420 (Feb 1, 2013)

May God bless you and keep you, and may He shine His face upon you and guide you into the Truth in Jesus Name


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## Zaehet Strife (Feb 1, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I will no longer be posting on this thread.
> I have said all i have to say,
> I feel that these dialogues
> are not leading to any positive outcome.
> ...


Thank fuckin god... jesus...


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## OldGrowth420 (Feb 1, 2013)

[h=3]2 Timothy 2[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[h=3]A Good Soldier of Christ Jesus[/h]2 Timothy, my dear son, be strong through the grace that God gives you in Christ Jesus. [SUP]2 [/SUP]You have heard me teach things that have been confirmed by many reliable witnesses. Now teach these truths to other trustworthy people who will be able to pass them on to others.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Endure suffering along with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Soldiers don&#8217;t get tied up in the affairs of civilian life, for then they cannot please the officer who enlisted them. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And athletes cannot win the prize unless they follow the rules. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And hardworking farmers should be the first to enjoy the fruit of their labor. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Think about what I am saying. The Lord will help you understand all these things.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Always remember that Jesus Christ, a descendant of King David, was raised from the dead. This is the Good News I preach. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And because I preach this Good News, I am suffering and have been chained like a criminal. But the word of God cannot be chained. [SUP]10 [/SUP]So I am willing to endure anything if it will bring salvation and eternal glory in Christ Jesus to those God has chosen.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]This is a trustworthy saying:
If we die with him,
we will also live with him.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we endure hardship,
we will reign with him.
If we deny him,
he will deny us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we are unfaithful,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot deny who he is.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Remind everyone about these things, and command them in God&#8217;s presence to stop fighting over words. Such arguments are useless, and they can ruin those who hear them.


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## Zaehet Strife (Feb 1, 2013)

OH...MY...GLOB! I thought you were outta here, not only are you nuts but you are also a liar. You do know where god puts liars right? You're going to BURN!!!!!


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## meechz 024 (Feb 1, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I will no longer be posting on this thread.
> I have said all i have to say,
> I feel that these dialogues
> are not leading to any positive outcome.
> ...


or you are leaving this thread because you have nothing to say back to logical rebuttals so you post bible verses and they get ignored like your sense of reality does. still didn't respond to my reply and no it's not negative at all.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Feb 1, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I will no longer be posting on this thread.
> I have said all i have to say,
> I feel that these dialogues
> are not leading to any positive outcome.
> ...


you should be more open to questioning those beliefs.Your view on life is far to narrow and you should learn to edify what it is you think is absolute reality.I personaly do not think this life is the only thing there is to all of existing and being nor do I believe in what you do nor will I.Can I prove I what I believe?no.Do i push it onto others?Absolutely not.I say learn how to coexist with others thoughts and feelings on eternity,If someone wants to posit their thoughts or feelings onto others,there will more than likely be a great failure to properly exhibit any reason as to why what they think should be believed to be the right amongst all, simply because it cannot be demonstrated nor sustained on an observable level,it is an impossibility IMO.It is of self truth and not a universal truth that can be objectified,yours is no special exclusion OG,even if it is what you truely feel to be the right one.It is one of the fundamental divides of objectivity and subjectivity.Remember to be open to new ideas in life.


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## NietzscheKeen (Feb 1, 2013)

It's ok.... we have wallstreeter to take his place making unsound arguments although wallstreeter is obnoxious as he follows up with an arrogant claim of victory at the end of each of his posts. LMAO

Thanks OG, you can rest easy now. You've done your job and covered your ass. Now that we've heard about Christ and can't claim otherwise, we will surely burn in the end for rejecting him.


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 1, 2013)

Ironic thing about that is a lot of Christians would tell you those that have never heard the word of Jesus are automatically entered into Heaven, yet missionaries travel the world over to inform people, only to have them either already have a god to believe in and dismiss it as nonsense, or dismiss it outright entirely and face the Christian consequences. It would seem, if these are the rules, and your goal is to get as many people into the kingdom of Heaven as you can, you should stay home and let them be ignorant of it. If those aren't the rules, what kind of omnibenevolent supreme being would design a system ensuring at least half of its creations never stand a chance to get into Heaven to begin with?


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## meechz 024 (Feb 1, 2013)

Poor christians. Their intentions are to "go to heaven" and bring everyone with them because they're ancient, heavily edited book says so.

It's so cute, kind of like a kid showing you how excited he is about the pile of rocks he found. He can't explain why his findings are so amazing but they just are. Just look at him and smile.


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## NietzscheKeen (Feb 1, 2013)

"what kind of omnibenevolent supreme being would design a system ensuring at least half of its creations never stand a chance to get into Heaven to begin with."

The same supreme being that would reveal himself only to illiterate shepards in the desert.


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## Heisenberg (Feb 1, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I support your right to express your views, but you should understand that when you present them as a moron, people will judge you moronic, and you wont accomplish much.





OldGrowth420 said:


> I feel that these dialogues
> are not leading to any positive outcome.


tenspaces10


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## NietzscheKeen (Feb 1, 2013)

Guy 1: What is your evidence? How did you reach your conclusion?

Theist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEtkOYQTPbE


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 1, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> what kind of omnibenevolent supreme being would design a system ensuring at least half of its creations never stand a chance to get into Heaven to begin with?


...well, since there is no God to you, then the answer is the earth.
















...yeah-yeah, you don't understand...


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## Heisenberg (Feb 1, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> It's ok.... we have wallstreeter to take his place making unsound arguments although wallstreeter is obnoxious as he follows up with an arrogant claim of victory at the end of each of his posts. LMAO


We also currently have a thread that provides proof of ghosts and one that overturns Einsteins relativity. 

Jesus wont be missed.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 1, 2013)

You have energy and matter as parts of your composition.

You can choose do what you will (relatively) with your energy and matter by way of your consciousness.

Energy and matter are the same.

Consciousness directs the latter.

The brain contains consciousness, and is not consciousness itself.

If what we see in the universe (any closed system, including the body) is exchanges of energy, what role is consciousness playing? If energy cannot be created or destroyed, then what about consciousness?











...yeah-yeah, you don't understand...


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## meechz 024 (Feb 1, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> We also currently have a thread that provides proof of ghosts and one that overturns Einsteins relativity.
> 
> Jesus wont be missed.


Haha, no one is trying to prove anything in the ghost thread it's just speculation and people's point of views. No way comparable to this thread, which is pretty much bible study class.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 1, 2013)

meechz 024 said:


> Haha, no one is trying to prove anything in the ghost thread it's just speculation and people's point of views. No way comparable to this thread, which is pretty much bible study class.


...answer my last post, please.


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## meechz 024 (Feb 1, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...answer my last post, please.


rephrase it


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 1, 2013)

meechz 024 said:


> rephrase it


...no........


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## Heisenberg (Feb 1, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> You have energy and matter as parts of your composition.
> 
> You can choose do what you will (relatively) with your energy and matter by way of your consciousness.
> 
> ...


Change the brain, change the consciousness. Damage the brain, damage the consciousness. Kill the brain, kill the consciousness.

Mental development correlates with brain development, mental activity correlates with brain activity. Brain function correlates with the mind in every way we would predict from the hypothesis that the brain causes the mind. From a scientific point of view, the mind is a manifestation of the brain. In order for us to be aware the brain needs to be constantly activated, which suggests that this constant brain activity is necessary for consciousness, probably because it is consciousness.

"Consciousness is simply the real time processing of sensory input and internal communication and monitoring. Our experience of reality is demonstrably constructed by the brain. When you alter the underlying brain function, you alter that construction. People can be made to feel as if they do not control their own limbs, or that they have extra limbs, or that sound has a color, that parts of the world do not exist, that their spouse has been replaced by an imposter, or that they are one with the universe. We can do all this by poking around in the brain." -Steven Novella


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 1, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Brain function correlates with the mind in every way we would predict from the hypothesis that the brain causes the mind


...no knowing, even if it's 'yet'.

...given what I wrote about consciousness directing energy and matter, and the laws of physics, I can say with equal hypothetical certainty that conditioning of energy (therefore consciousness) is the purpose. Even evolution won't stand unconditioned energy.

...I'll 'bet' that I'm here to condition my consciousness through energy and matter.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 1, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Change the brain, change the consciousness. Damage the brain, damage the consciousness. Kill the brain, kill the consciousness.


...ok, but that solidifies my point. Matter is only a vehicle that should be refined else it be changed for the worse, yes?


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## Heisenberg (Feb 1, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...no knowing, even if it's 'yet'.
> 
> ...given what I wrote about consciousness directing energy and matter, and the laws of physics, I can say with equal hypothetical certainty that conditioning of energy (therefore consciousness) is the purpose. Even evolution won't stand unconditioned energy.
> 
> ...I'll 'bet' that I'm here to condition my consciousness through energy and matter.


It's true science does not know the intimate nature of consciousness. The difference is, the scientific hypothesis remains unfalsified, while the dualists is unfalsifiable.

For now, it is a debate which must wait for further research, IMO.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 2, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> It's true science does not know the intimate nature of consciousness. The difference is, the scientific hypothesis remains unfalsified, while the dualists is unfalsifiable.
> 
> For now, it is a debate which must wait for further research, IMO.


...well, if we consider how many failed attempts there have been in science 

...ok, we'll leave it there for now.


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## Zaehet Strife (Feb 2, 2013)

That reminds me of a point in time in the human animals existence when the species thought the earth was flat, that storms were because the gods were mad, sickness was the wrath of the gods and that the earth is only 4000 years old.... some still claim these concepts are still true...lol. 

It took hundreds of years for humans to accept these changes because of religiosity. 

Science says well fuck, we were wrong, lets move on and figure some more shit out...


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## Heisenberg (Feb 2, 2013)

The fewer failed attempts science delivers, the less knowledge it collects.


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## NietzscheKeen (Feb 2, 2013)

Well, I minored in Neuroscience, so I'm in no way an expert or even knowledgable for that matter. There is one theory of consciousness that I do favor though. I should also mention that loathe all this new age bull crap, but it's possible that their bull crap may overlap with reality; it's only coincidence though... trust me. The theory I favor states that consciousness is an illusion by the brain, for the brain. We're putting a label on something that isn't really there. 

Eye, where is the consciousness contained within the brain? It must be the ventricles, right? And it somehow doesn't escape during surgery?


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 2, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Well, I minored in Neuroscience, so I'm in no way an expert or even knowledgable for that matter. There is one theory of consciousness that I do favor though. I should also mention that loathe all this new age bull crap, but it's possible that their bull crap may overlap with reality; it's only coincidence though... trust me. The theory I favor states that consciousness is an illusion by the brain, for the brain. We're putting a label on something that isn't really there.
> 
> Eye, where is the consciousness contained within the brain? It must be the ventricles, right? And it somehow doesn't escape during surgery?


...some say the seat is the pineal, and not in the new age sense. Otherwise, I have to say that it is in each atom, so I'm not sure how anything would 'escape'.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 2, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...some say the seat is the pineal, and not in the new age sense. Otherwise, I have to say that it is in each atom, so I'm not sure how anything would 'escape'.


and "some say" the seat of "consciousness" resides in the heart, others that it resides in the stomach, and others still in the reproductive organs. 

"some say" that consciousness resides in the "soul" or the "energy" of the biological electromagnetic field.

"some say" that animals (and by extension, infants) have no consciousness since they are rooted entirely in stimulus and response. 

"some say" that consciousness is found in plants. 

lets face it "some say" a lot of stupid shit. 

the pineal gland is a regulatory body deep within the most primitive parts of the brain. it is found in ALL animals with a brain more complex than is required to eat and reproduce. (LoL sea cucumbers)

you COULD make the case that dogs have a rudimentary consciousness, but only a dippledink would make that same claim with regards to a chickens or goldfish despite all having pineal glands. 

in my opinion conciusness is the result of the brains attempt to make sense of itself, resulting in an endlessly recursive self evaluation, and eventually awareness of the simple fact of awareness. i suspect that besides humans the only animals on earth with the requisite brain complexity and native intelligence to begin the process of "consciousness" are Felis Domesticus. 

and i for one welcome our new Feline Overlords.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 2, 2013)

^ ...some say things like 'some say' because they couldn't possibly sum up every work on the subject in a few sentences. Some say that you haven't answered the question. Ehhh, what's up (with that), doc?


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Feb 2, 2013)

What exactly dose the pineal gland regulate not only in humans but in every animal that has one if you dont mind me asking?


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## NietzscheKeen (Feb 2, 2013)

If I remember correctly, it is either part of or an extention of the endocrine system. One thing it does is regulate hibernation cycles, can't remember what else it does. Google would be a better source than me, lol.


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## Nevaeh420 (Feb 2, 2013)

I believe people can only do their best! 

So if you do the best with what you know than how could God ask anything more?

I dont think God would condemn anyone to hell for giving their all towards GOOD!

And if your not going to hell than I hope you are going to heaven.

So do your best with what you know and pray for guidance from God!

Just My honest opinon! 




https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/600992-i-found-like-dozen-videos.html




~PEACE~


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 2, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> What exactly dose the pineal gland regulate not only in humans but in every animal that has one if you dont mind me asking?


the pineal is the dopamine controller, regulating sleep appetite and the "positive response" of the pleasure mechanism. 

it likely has NO function in the "soul" since religions almost invariably forbid anything that triggers a dopamine dump (i.e. fun)

taken to it's (theo)logical conclusion, the pineal gland is the little devil on your left shoulder urging you to be lazy, eat Funyuns, smoke dope and masturbate. 

meanwhile the conscious mind's willingness to forgo immediate gratification, to endure unpleasant sensations and consider the future are the ESSENCE of the human being, and that is controlled by no portion of the physical brain as yet identified by science. 

the increase of the capacity for denial of the pineal's baser urges represents an advancement to the legendary Uber Mensch, while meek submission to the urge to jerk off and munch brownies in mom's basement would be movement in the opposite direction.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 2, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ^ ...some say things like 'some say' because they couldn't possibly sum up every work on the subject in a few sentences. Some say that you haven't answered the question. Ehhh, what's up (with that), doc?


"some say" when you mean Rene Descartes, it's better to SAY Rene Descartes, rather than appear to be repeating some shit your cousin's girlfriend's brother's college room-mate said, fourth hand. 

since Rene Descartes is the only real scientist of note to make the claim that the pineal is associated with religious or theological nonsense, and such twaddle is utterly rejected by even a cursory examination of neurobiology, one would think simply mentioning Descartes by name would lend some MUCH NEEDED "gravitas" to your statement, since the only other members of the "Some Say" club who hold the opinion you are repeating are daft twats selling magical healing crystals and get rich quick schemes. 

"some say" and "some would argue" are the weaseliest of the weasel words, invoking un-named sources, hearsay and rumour in an attempt to manufacture a bandwagon fallacy where even the existence of the Bandwagon is fallacious. 

"some say" is even less convincing that "the word on the street" and "common knowledge". "some say" is usually followed by the kind of well reasoned argument that is discussed in the The Honeycomb Hideout between segments of The Smurfs on Saturday morning.

Edit: and just for clarification, im not hating on you or your views, you just use the weasel words A LOT, and that is a burr under my saddle. 
kinda like when somebody says "Nookyular". 

*You Must Be At Least THIS HOT :*




to say "Nookyular" around me without getting sharply corrected.


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## Beefbisquit (Feb 2, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> and "some say" the seat of "consciousness" resides in the heart, others that it resides in the stomach, and others still in the reproductive organs.
> 
> "some say" that consciousness resides in the "soul" or the "energy" of the biological electromagnetic field.
> 
> ...


I LOL'd....


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## NietzscheKeen (Feb 2, 2013)

OMG, I literally just ranted about my professor saying Nue-Cue-lar this morning. It must be a sign from above....
Couldn't possibly be coincidence.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 2, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> OMG, I literally just ranted about my professor saying Nue-Cue-lar this morning. It must be a sign from above....
> Couldn't possibly be coincidence.


Did we just start a new religion? 



aw shit. Yes we did.


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## mindphuk (Feb 2, 2013)

[video=youtube;OoASZyihalc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoASZyihalc[/video]


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 2, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> it likely has NO function in the "soul" since religions almost invariably forbid anything that triggers a dopamine dump (i.e. fun)


...wait, didn't we exchange a little on the Buddha / Christ being opposing thumbs thing? Liberation from opposing forces means that no fun is needed. Dharma was the issue, still is.

..."likely" is to science what "I believe without proof" is to theists, DK.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 2, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> "some say" when you mean Rene Descartes, it's better to SAY Rene Descartes, rather than appear to be repeating some shit your cousin's girlfriend's brother's college room-mate said, fourth hand.
> 
> since Rene Descartes is the only real scientist of note to make the claim that the pineal is associated with religious or theological nonsense, and such twaddle is utterly rejected by even a cursory examination of neurobiology, one would think simply mentioning Descartes by name would lend some MUCH NEEDED "gravitas" to your statement, since the only other members of the "Some Say" club who hold the opinion you are repeating are daft twats selling magical healing crystals and get rich quick schemes.
> 
> ...




...still didn't answer the consciousness question. Who cares who's hot  (oh dear, a coincidental "hub-hub-hub" there)


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> and "some say" the seat of "consciousness" resides in the heart


...but is combined with mind. Wisdom Heart, or, Bodhisattva. How do I get to heaven? Use your consciousness to help others raise there own. Very simple. Little sarcasm (countenance) required. Maximum effort, though.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...wait, didn't we exchange a little on the Buddha / Christ being opposing thumbs thing? Liberation from opposing forces means that no fun is needed. Dharma was the issue, still is.
> 
> ..."likely" is to science what "I believe without proof" is to theists, DK.


no, i have never discussed jesus as being anything more useful than a doorstop, much less the invaluable thumb

buddha is in my estimation a far less dangerous and capricious religious figure, and his common ground with christianity is negligible. 


Likely to rational people means " evidence points that way", for example: 

if you see moss growing on one side of a tree that is a LIKELY indication that that side of the tree faces north. it is not CERTAIN but it's likely. 

"I beleive without proof" means : "I accept your statements uncritically, tell me more master." example: the entire thread on "crystal power" or the one opposing GMO's


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...still didn't answer the consciousness question. Who cares who's hot  (oh dear, a coincidental "hub-hub-hub" there)


i was unaware that there WAS a consciousness question. i am not a cartesian navel gazer nor am i an abrahamic religious devotee and thus i can safely place this kind of sophist dilemma in the same box i keep my fear of damnation, concern over other people's opinion of me, and all the fucks i give about people who blow off their own hands playing with blasting caps. 

in my opinion, conciousness is, as i stated earlier, an endlessly recursive attempt by complex brains to understand the world around them, and eventually themselves until the ponderer achieves awareness of the simple and undeniable fact of awareness. then he will spend the next 20,000 years' free time wondering when exactly did he actually become aware, was it when he realized that he was aware, or was his awareness extant before he discovered that he was wondering if he was aware. 

unless he is a philosophy major, and then he will Muse Professionally, full time.


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## tyler.durden (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> "I beleive without proof" means : "I accept your statements uncritically, tell me more master." example: the entire thread on "crystal power" or the one opposing GMO's


I just read through that grow-better-plants-with-crystals thread in the _science_ section, and had to look twice that I wasn't in T&T. What's going on in that subforum, anyway? There should be at least a cursory I.Q. test to gain access...


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...but is combined with mind. Wisdom Heart, or, Bodhisattva. How do I get to heaven? Use your consciousness to help others raise there own. Very simple. Little sarcasm (countenance) required. Maximum effort, though.


opinion masquerading as fact. 

the heart is a muscle which pumps blood through the body, under the direction of the most primitive parts of the brain. the same part of the brain that controls the sexual response, adrenal response (fight or flight) anger fear rage terror and love. 

if thats where your god lives then your god is a petty, horny, fearful, lazy, angry little troll with a predilection for addictive substances. 

my gods reside in the higher functions, those not found in lower animals.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> I just read through that grow-better-plants-with-crystals thread in the _science_ section, and had to look twice that I wasn't in T&T. What's going on in that subforum, anyway? There should be at least a cursory I.Q. test to gain access...


for real lulz read the "GMO cannabis" thread. it has more unfounded statements of non-fact per square meter than the vatican archives.


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## Nutes and Nugs (Feb 3, 2013)

Not sure if this was mentioned.
[video=youtube;kYvOsnhV6ZY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvOsnhV6ZY[/video]


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## Heisenberg (Feb 3, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> I just read through that grow-better-plants-with-crystals thread in the _science_ section, and had to look twice that I wasn't in T&T. What's going on in that subforum, anyway? There should be at least a cursory I.Q. test to gain access...


I requested the thread be moved there from the advanced growing section so that actual knowledgeable people would have a look at it.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I requested the thread be moved there from the advanced growing section so that actual knowledgeable people would have a look at it.


"Crystals" indeed. 

everybody knows its MAGNETS and Structured Water that makes plants grow.


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## tyler.durden (Feb 3, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I requested the thread be moved there from the advanced growing section so that actual knowledgeable people would have a look at it.


Heis, you mischievous puppet master! Way to stir things up


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

...Tyler, Heis, you can keep your shells,  Thanks!


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> i was unaware that there WAS a consciousness question. i am not a cartesian navel gazer nor am i an abrahamic religious devotee and thus i can safely place this kind of sophist dilemma in the same box i keep my fear of damnation, concern over other people's opinion of me, and all the fucks i give about people who blow off their own hands playing with blasting caps.
> 
> in my opinion, conciousness is, as i stated earlier, an endlessly recursive attempt by complex brains to understand the world around them, and eventually themselves until the ponderer achieves awareness of the simple and undeniable fact of awareness. then he will spend the next 20,000 years' free time wondering when exactly did he actually become aware, was it when he realized that he was aware, or was his awareness extant before he discovered that he was wondering if he was aware.
> 
> unless he is a philosophy major, and then he will Muse Professionally, full time.



...the work I've done was not with philosophy majors, I admit. It looked instead like a setting with actual doctors (interdisciplinary). Those were the ones that accepted my petty ignorance and acknowledged my work.

...the opposing thumb was something I understood as coming from an abbott via a gnostic instructor. Whoa, they were interacting in a mutually positive way. Let's say they complemented each other, go 'finger'. They agreed, plain and simple.

...philosophy does not have the answer, nor science, nor outward religion, and neither does art on its own. A combination of those things, which is something I see when I look at nature, is balanced enough to sustain a person's well being.

...if by crystals you guys are referencing the diamond path, Vajrayana, then sure "mystical crystals".


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> in my opinion, conciousness is, as i stated earlier, an endlessly recursive attempt by complex brains to understand the world around them, and eventually themselves until the ponderer achieves awareness of the simple and undeniable fact of awareness.


...thank you! What a clean statement. Very lizard free.

...how would consciousness evolve beyond the passing of the body if all it can do is become aware of its vehicle? Maybe there's something about evolution that I am not grasping.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...the work I've done was not with philosophy majors, I admit. It looked instead like a setting with actual doctors (interdisciplinary). Those were the ones that accepted my petty ignorance and acknowledged my work.


what "work" was this? and are you using "work" as a euphemism for metaphysical musing or actual labours which produce visible results



eye exaggerate said:


> ...the opposing thumb was something I understood as coming from an abbott via a gnostic instructor. Whoa, they were interacting in a mutually positive way. Let's say they complemented each other, go 'finger'. They agreed, plain and simple.


an abbot of what? which religion? which order? which monastery? 

a "gnostic" as in "new age gnosticism" which is poretty much just word salad madlibs and profound sounding quips, or the jewish apologist/christian sect that was eliminated around 200 AD as heretics ? 



eye exaggerate said:


> ...philosophy does not have the answer, nor science, nor outward religion, and neither does art on its own. A combination of those things, which is something I see when I look at nature, is balanced enough to sustain a person's well being.


 philosophy never answers question it only asks them socratic style. leaving the listener to ponder. science likewise is more in the business of asking questions than providing answers. only religion and politics have the Chutzpah to make claims of definitive answers and demannnd action on their claims. 



eye exaggerate said:


> ...if by crystals you guys are referencing the diamond path, Vajrayana, then sure "mystical crystals".


and no, not metaphorical crystals or the names of minerals used as adjectives in proper names for metaphysical mummery. ordinary "crystals" like salt quartz and sugar accretions, and even other shit wich is not even aa "crystal" but gets sold as one by the adherents, like leaded glass. 


seriously bro, im not trying to rag on you, but i grew up with a dickhead who claimed he was psychic, had magical crystal based healing powers and claimed he was a "warrior of light" 

he would often regale his captive audience with his tales of psychic battles, glorious miracles which we (the uninitiated) could never experience and the wonders he had seen in the many-fold dimensions denied mere 3-D creatures like myself. 
and he used a lot of the same tropes and phrases you use, and often engaged in the same high flown hyperbolic (but still hedged by weasel words) rhetoric used by hucksters from david icke to deepak choprah. you flirt with that kind of gabble a lot, even if you dont recognize it. 

despite his mad claims, inane rants and wild tales of daring do, in fact he was just a dickhead with Munchhausen Syndrome and a serious case of "borderline personality disorder". 

by being more clear, and less nebulous in your statements perhaps you might convey more information with fewer ellipses'


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> seriously bro, im not trying to rag on you, but i grew up with a dickhead who claimed he was psychic, had magical crystal based healing powers and claimed he was a "warrior of light"


...I'll address some of the other points (to the best of my current ability) in a bit.

...please, don't put me in that place. The closest thing to psychic I'd talk about is related to being born as a psychic being, raised a spiritual one. Psychic(sm) as it pertains to psyche only. I'm not wanting to interact at dck level, either.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...thank you! What a clean statement. Very lizard free.
> 
> ...how would consciousness evolve beyond the passing of the body if all it can do is become aware of its vehicle? Maybe there's something about evolution that I am not grasping.


you presume consciousness beyond the physical brain. 

the "soul" i presume? 

thats entirely a metaphysical construct unprovable by science, and thus a question for philosophers theologians and religious figures who's faiths require such a construct for their magic book and dire threats to have any power over the rubes. 

the "soul" as christians/jews/moslems describe it has little bearing on the spirit as used in other faiths like taoism, buddhism, ancestral worship, animism, hinduism, or in fact any "reduced dogma" religion, including my own. 

evolution likewise does not support a christian/jew/moslem style persistent "soul" existing beyond the physical being, since such a feature is not a survival trait in any biology i am familiar with. 

likewise, if the "soul" is assumed, then survival of the "soul" would be of paramount interest to the organism, and physical forms would be disposable commodities shaped by the needs of the "soul" rather than complex machines designed to self replicate. 

under such a condition, we would logically expect a more flatworm type creature, something which simply duplicates itself when the old body becomes shop-worn or soiled, not an endless re-creation of new organisms with distinctive features and unique traits requiring the "soul" to spend about 12 years re-learning basic shit like walking, shitting and masturbation before it is ready to strike out in search of new action. 

getting used to a new body and learning to walk, and figuring out how not to crap on one-self would seem to be pretty wasteful if the "soul" could simply recycle itself into a new duplicate body. 

i mean just from an efficiency standpoint, why bother with the minor, major, and sometimes debilitating side effects of sexual reproduction and the genetic crapshoot? budding out a new body and leaving the old one behind would be aces.

this current shit is pretty lame.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I'll address some of the other points (to the best of my current ability) in a bit.
> 
> ...please, don't put me in that place. The closest thing to psychic I'd talk about is related to being born as a psychic being, raised a spiritual one. Psychic(sm) as it pertains to psyche only. I'm not wanting to interact at dck level, either.


im not sayin your a nutbar munchhausen loon with a rampant need for self aggrandizing bullshit. 

you just occasionally use the same rhetorical style as the loon in question. ]

that just gets my hackles up. like people who say nookyular. once somebody throws out the Nookyular bomb everything else they say becomes shrouded in doubt as to their competence. 

likewise when somebody throws out the trope: "judges sit on a bench, bench in french is Bank, and Banks control the currency, but rivers also have Banks, which also control the current... see (insert smug grin here) and the Current, see flows to the ocean, and ships are commanded by admirals, and admirals fly gold fringed flags, and gold fringed flags are found hanging behind judges so our courts are under the Law of the Sea..." 

then i automatically assume (and rightly so) that the speaker needs to get locked in a rubber room, or punched in the face. 

you often throw out similar vague sounding word salad tropes which leave me feeling like you just tried to slip your hand into my underpants. 

for example: 



eye exaggerate said:


> You have energy and matter as parts of your composition.
> 
> You can choose do what you will (relatively) with your energy and matter by way of your consciousness.
> 
> ...


\

this made my skin crawl, like the sly grin of a pederast priest, or the knowing smugness of a stalinist agitator who just convinced a bunch of college students that socialism isnt authoritarian...


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> im not sayin your a nutbar munchhausen loon with a rampant need for self aggrandizing bullshit.
> 
> you just occasionally use the same rhetorical style as the loon in question. ]
> 
> ...


...ha! I admit all kinds of wrong...nothing agitator here other than when agitated. Hence the need for the Dharma, for me.

...so you got to flow which is The Dharma. Banks? I make pretty symbols out of concepts, etc, no need for banks 

...Priests were the initial guards of knowledge. A cursory glance at academia will expose that. Unless those schools have somehow become irrelevant. Back to shamanism goes the guard of knowledge. They were the 'priests' of the tribe.

...no song and dance, here, though. Really, nothing but an honest attempt at reducing density. Oops, I hope you don't hate that last bit


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...ha! I admit all kinds of wrong...nothing agitator here other than when agitated. Hence the need for the Dharma, for me.
> 
> ...so you got to flow which is The Dharma. Banks? I make pretty symbols out of concepts, etc, no need for banks
> 
> ...


i grok that bro. 

thats why im not lambasting you with a fusillade of insults invective and allusions to sexual deviance and dysfunction. 

i recognize that your rhetorical style triggers a visceral response in ME and as such i am restraining my baser urges and trying to hear what youre saying rather than the manner in which you speak. 

it's part of my internal struggle to accept people for what they do rather than what they say, since often words are used so ass backwards (thanks to the lefty socialist re-definition craze of the postmodernist era) or deployed as metaphor when the literal meaning results in confusuon, that sometimes it seems that everyone has their own bizarre dialect of english. those dialects may sound similar but none of the words match up, making any argument pointless. 

argue with cheesus or buck for a few rounds and youll see what i mean. 

anyhoo... as i understand hindu philosophy,, Dharma is the light of truth, like the zoroastrian Ahura Mazda (zoom zoom) and it permeates all things, or in my faith, The Bann expanding when truth and positivity expand, but contracting in the presence of lies and evil. 

is this the dharma to which you refer?


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> i grok that bro.
> 
> thats why im not lambasting you with a fusillade of insults invective and allusions to sexual deviance and dysfunction.
> 
> ...




...the one that is.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...the one that is.


much like Mr Combs, upon finding a $1 bill in his wad of Hundie Sticks, i am perplexed. 




generally i prefer straightforward questions should be answered with a straightforward response. your response is dazzlingly unresponsive.

i can only infer you mean to say, dharma exists , and is thus self evident. 

that would be inaccurate since most people on earth when asked "what is Dharma" would respond "a shitty TV show with jenna elfman". 

the SUN is self evident and when asked "What is the sun" just about everyone on earth who is not clinically retarded would simply point up into the sky at the burning chariot of apollo. 

THAT is a self evident phenomenon. dharma is not.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> much like Mr Combs, upon finding a $1 bill in his wad of Hundie Sticks, i am perplexed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...to recognize it, you have to first 'see' karma. If you don't want to effect those around with your own faults, there is a path to dharma. The cause of your reasoning ability was transferred to you by another kind of knowledge (and I'll add 'that is the same' - not to take the piss, I assure you.). All that (does, or does not) lie behind that knowledge cannot be understood, imho. Karma _is_ self evident, the cause was desire, the result is all of us (having been gifted the ability to reason - which is always taken for granted).


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...to recognize it, you have to first 'see' karma. If you don't want to effect those around with your own faults, there is a path to dharma. The cause of your reasoning ability was transferred to you by another kind of knowledge (and I'll add 'that is the same' - not to take the piss, I assure you.). All that (does, or does not) lie behind that knowledge cannot be understood, imho. Karma _is_ self evident, the cause was desire, the result is all of us (having been gifted the ability to reason - which is always taken for granted).


dude.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

...dude, what? I honestly do not understand why you'd post that. I know that I could be more clear. But, for 'continuity's' sake, I am choosing not to. Continuity lol

...dunno what else to say, man. Really.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...dude, what? I honestly do not understand why you'd post that. I know that I could be more clear. But, for 'continuity's' sake, I am choosing not to. Continuity lol
> 
> ...dunno what else to say, man. Really.


Karma is even less self evident than Dharma. 

karma is a distinctly eastern idea, with no corresponding value in the west.

my religion has no karmic concept, and thus invoking it is pointless without providing some exposition as to your view of it's form and function. 

if i ask 50 karma believers (new age, hindu buddhist or shinto) ill get 50 different irreconcilable answers. 

karma is a religious trope, not a self evident phenomenon, it is even more nebulous than dharma or The Bann, and those are VERY sticky wickets which require a great deal of explanation for those who do not already know what the speaker is talking about. 

unfortunately the word "karma" was so misused and abused in the 60's 70's and 80's, that every asshole on the planet has their own interpretation of what it is and how it works. 

without specificity, your comments are useless in fostering dialogue. 

conflating karma and dharma (two dissimilar ideas) does not explain your view of either.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> Karma is even less self evident than Dharma.
> 
> karma is a distinctly eastern idea, with no corresponding value in the west.
> 
> ...


...I can agree that the terms are misused. My explanation is a product of my cognitive / energetic conditioning, as is your interpretation. I cannot perceive a point to your post. Willingness is the only prerequisite to fostering dialogue. And, my preference is a less rigid environment.


Karma: Sanskrit, literally "deed"; derived from kri, "to do..." - cause and effect.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I can agree that the terms are misused. My explanation is a product of my cognitive / energetic conditioning, as is your interpretation. I cannot perceive a point to your post. Willingness is the only prerequisite to fostering dialogue. And, my preference is a less rigid environment.
> 
> 
> Karma: Sanskrit, literally "deed"; derived from kri, "to do..." - cause and effect.


without a framework of mutual understanding any discussion will result in misunderstanding when nebulous and ill-defined ideas like "karma" come into play. 

it doesnt have to be terribly rigid, but it should at least be linguistic. wihtout some accepted meaning, every word becomes putty in ther hands of every speaker and nobody knows what the hell anyone else is really saying since their "interpretation" of each word and the corresponding idea will be utterly irreconcilable. 

case in point: argue the nature of "anarchy" with abandonconflict and youll so discover that "anarchy" in his mind means about the same thing as "aloha", and "mozol tov". basically anarchy means "good things" , and as such "anarchy" is suitable for use in any circumstance where "Goodthings" are implied. it can be hello, goodby, sunshine, lollipops, rainbows, puppies, kittens, pistachio icecream, or the smell of fresh baked bread. 

if you are discussing cause and effect in the physical world, then karma is a sound principle, but if you are discussing cause, a whole bunch of seemingly unconnected interactions and eventual effect through supernatural mummery, then no, i do not accept the premise of karma. 

if a bastard kicks a dog, that kicking will not circle the aether until it finally returns to him in the form of some misfortune. thats not "karma" thats Chance.

the dog turning around and biting him is not karma, since it is direct, predictable and understandable. no supernatural forces required. 

karma is just another easy rhetorical escape hatch for the supernatural believer. it's the eastern version of "god works in terribly mysterious ways".


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## coffeesick (Feb 3, 2013)

Hell looks fun...I pay a couple hundred dollars ever Autumn to go to synthetic hells like horror houses.


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## Zaehet Strife (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> without a framework of mutual understanding any discussion will result in misunderstanding when nebulous and ill-defined ideas like "karma" come into play.
> 
> it doesnt have to be terribly rigid, but it should at least be linguistic. wihtout some accepted meaning, every word becomes putty in ther hands of every speaker and nobody knows what the hell anyone else is really saying since their "interpretation" of each word and the corresponding idea will be utterly irreconcilable.
> 
> ...


Well said, great presentation.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> without a framework of mutual understanding any discussion will result in misunderstanding when nebulous and ill-defined ideas like "karma" come into play.
> 
> it doesnt have to be terribly rigid, but it should at least be linguistic. wihtout some accepted meaning, every word becomes putty in ther hands of every speaker and nobody knows what the hell anyone else is really saying since their "interpretation" of each word and the corresponding idea will be utterly irreconcilable.
> 
> ...


...the furthest extension of linguistics _is_ poetic, imo.

"without a framework of mutual understanding any discussion will result in misunderstanding when nebulous and ill-defined ideas like "karma" come into play."

...within the framework of your own understanding, yes, 100 percent. I cannot help but speak in pictures; besides, it tickles me pink. I _want_ for others to have to dig to find meaning. That runs a strong parallel to life as it stands right now, imo. It comes down to how badly a person wants knowledge - regardless of who the speaker is.


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## Zaehet Strife (Feb 3, 2013)

Yes you can help it, you just choose not to. Rather than talk in a way that can be unmistakeably understood, you speak in metaphor's. I mean, kinda cool... if you don't mind people having no idea what you are talking about.... or exactly what point it is that you are trying to get across.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Yes you can help it, you just choose not to. Rather than talk in a way that can be unmistakeably understood, you speak in metaphor's. I mean, kinda cool... if you don't mind people having no idea what you are talking about.... or exactly what point it is that you are trying to get across.


...strife, I came to this site and talked about refraining from outright sexual exaggeration and God. I don't think I was in it for the popular vote 

...trust me, I see what you're saying. It's very difficult for me not to speak that way. It's also a big part of developing patience, maybe for all of us.

* what I think is cool about it is that things happen by chance. It is a developing 'something or other' as it goes along. Kind of like pioneering, maybe.

** here, let me share this 'cool' thing with you. Directly after discussing the idea of flow with the doc, my mother called to tell me about a trip my parents just made to the panama canal. She starts talking about regulating of the flow of water, the use of gravity, etc... I was like, "the fck?"

Actually speechless for a couple of seconds there. You can interpret that how you wish. That is something really 'special' to me when it happens.


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## Zaehet Strife (Feb 3, 2013)

Regardless, i think we would have much more meaningful conversations if you allowed yourself, or at least made a conscious effort, to write in a way that is easily understandable. Maybe you could write what you want first, and then explain exactly what it means second, that way you can express yourself the way you want first.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...the furthest extension of linguistics _is_ poetic, imo.
> 
> "without a framework of mutual understanding any discussion will result in misunderstanding when nebulous and ill-defined ideas like "karma" come into play."
> 
> ...within the framework of your own understanding, yes, 100 percent. I cannot help but speak in pictures; besides, it tickles me pink. I _want_ for others to have to dig to find meaning. That runs a strong parallel to life as it stands right now, imo. It comes down to how badly a person wants knowledge - regardless of who the speaker is.


but poetry without any grammar or accepted uses of words results in a Bob Dylan song, and nobody wants that bro. 


example of "poetry" without regard to grammar or logic:

Subterranean Homesick Blues. 
Bob Dylan

Johnny&#8217;s in the basement
Mixing up the medicine
I&#8217;m on the pavement
Thinking about the government
The man in the trench coat
Badge out, laid off
Says he&#8217;s got a bad cough
Wants to get it paid off
Look out kid
It&#8217;s somethin&#8217; you did
God knows when
But you&#8217;re doin&#8217; it again
You better duck down the alley way
Lookin&#8217; for a new friend
The man in the coon-skin cap
By the big pen
Wants eleven dollar bills
You only got ten
Maggie comes fleet foot
Face full of black soot
Talkin&#8217; that the heat put
Plants in the bed but
The phone&#8217;s tapped anyway
Maggie says that many say
They must bust in early May
Orders from the D.A.
Look out kid
Don&#8217;t matter what you did
Walk on your tiptoes
Don&#8217;t try &#8220;No-Doz&#8221;
Better stay away from those
That carry around a fire hose
Keep a clean nose
Watch the plain clothes
You don&#8217;t need a weatherman
To know which way the wind blows
Get sick, get well
Hang around a ink well
Ring bell, hard to tell
If anything is goin&#8217; to sell
Try hard, get barred
Get back, write braille
Get jailed, jump bail
Join the army, if you fail
Look out kid
You&#8217;re gonna get hit
But users, cheaters
Six-time losers
Hang around the theaters
Girl by the whirlpool
Lookin&#8217; for a new fool
Don&#8217;t follow leaders
Watch the parkin&#8217; meters
Ah get born, keep warm
Short pants, romance, learn to dance
Get dressed, get blessed
Try to be a success
Please her, please him, buy gifts
Don&#8217;t steal, don&#8217;t lift
Twenty years of schoolin&#8217;
And they put you on the day shift
Look out kid
They keep it all hid
Better jump down a manhole
Light yourself a candle
Don&#8217;t wear sandals
Try to avoid the scandals
Don&#8217;t wanna be a bum
You better chew gum
The pump don&#8217;t work
&#8217;Cause the vandals took the handles


dont try to make sense of it, if you stare too long, you may find bob dylan staring back into you. 

apparently cocaine really is one hell of a drug. 

​


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> but poetry without any grammar or accepted uses of words results in a Bob Dylan song, and nobody wants that bro.
> 
> 
> example of "poetry" without regard to grammar or logic:
> ...


...indeed, it is.


_All Religions Are One_
William Blake

The Voice of one crying in the Wilderness


THE ARGUMENT
As the true method of knowledge is experiment, the true faculty of knowledge must be the faculty which experiences. This faculty I treat of.


PRINCIPLE 1st
That the Poetic Genius is the true Man, and that the body or outward form of Man is derived from the Poetic Genius. Likewise that the forms of all things are derived from their Genius, which by the Ancients was call&#8217;d an Angel & Spirit & Demon.

PRINCIPLE 2d
All men are alike in outward form, So (and with the same infinite variety) all are alike in the Poetic Genius.


PRINCIPLE 3d
No man can think or write or speak from his heart, but he must intent truth. Thus all sects of Philosophy are from the Poetic Genius adapted to the weaknesses of every individual.


PRINCIPLE 4.
As none by travelling over known lands can find out the unknown, So from already acquired knowledge Man could not acquire more; therefore an universal Poetic Genius exists.


PRINCIPLE 5.
The religions of all Nations are derived from each Nations&#8217;s different reception of the Poetic Genius, which is every where called the Spirit of Prophecy.


PRINCIPLE 6.
The Jewish and Christian Testaments are An original derivation from the Poetic Genius. This is necssary from the confined nature of bodiliy sensation.


PRINCIPLE 7th
As all men are alike (tho&#8217; infinitely various) So all Religions & as all similars have one source:
The true Man is the source, he being the Poetic Genius


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Feb 3, 2013)

Oh my,what has this ill formed idea of a thread mutated into now?


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 3, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> Oh my,what has this ill formed idea of a thread mutated into now?


...so long as it is fun, minus the jettisoning of astronuts, we're good


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Feb 3, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> Karma is even less self evident than Dharma.
> 
> karma is a distinctly eastern idea, with no corresponding value in the west.
> 
> ...



I can agree that karma is greatly misconceived.Karma as I understand it is the eastern term for cause and effect in motion,yet when it comes back around to the person so to speak,its not out of some divine retribution,it seems to come from the habitual pattern of the person comitting the action for the effect to take place in a manner that probability takes effect.Said person A kicks the dog of the neighbor and nothing happens on the first day of it occurring,said person A kicks the dog again nothing again,repeats and still nothing.One time he decides to have a good ole kick the dog of the neighbor session and this time the neighbor happens to be near the site of the repeated incident and armed, neighbor blows his head off with a gun.A form of cause and effect or probability?Or do they both coincide?Any Thoughts?

ya I know its a bit extreme but you get the idea right?


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...indeed, it is.
> 
> 
> _All Religions Are One_
> ...


poetry is the province of Fintan and Mannanan Mac Lir 

from Mannanan, Fintan gained the Ogham, and by Ogham he created the First Poetry. 
from Mannanan, Fintan learned the hour of his death and was bound by his Weird, and through this Weird he gained the power of the Will and the Word.
from Mannanan, Fintan learned the Healing Arts, and by these arts he forged his Doom, binding his life with the Hawk of Achill and sealed his fate. 
from Mannanan, Fintan learned the speech of animals and trees, and the nature of their forms, and by this knowing he gained the power of transformation. 
from Mannanan, Fintan learned the nature of the Bann, and through his Will and Word he gained the magic he taught to the Tuatha de Dannan 
from Mannanan, Fintan learned the Nature of Things, and by this he gained the Wisdom of Things. this wisdom allowed him to view things as they are, not as they seem, and thus he wandered the paths of the Bann freely
from Mannanan, Fintan learned the Virtues, and the Five Arts and thus laid down the foundations of Brehon law. 

funny, seems like jesus and jehovah forgot to pop by the REST of the world with their awesome message. we poor schlubs have to make do with what we can find.


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## Zaehet Strife (Feb 3, 2013)

As always, my comment ignored.


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## Amysd (Feb 3, 2013)

Whatever your religion or belief as long as your intentions are good you will get their


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## Hydrotech364 (Feb 3, 2013)

Where do I start?Christianity is a scam, heard stories of a bible with all of the chapters that were edited out and it would be 3 ft tall.I dont trust anything that was written by Man concerning god's and I'm sure not going to trust a second edition.What you see is what you get and you should be thankful for that because nature is fuckin awesome.I guess it's hard for alot of people to realize they are on there own and there's no Valhalla or Heaven just worms and dirt or ashes, I'm being dumped in the Pacific by my old Squadron...Jesus was real in my opinion, alot of writing's about Him specifically but he would have been a short arab and not the brown haired stoner on Granny's wall.At the same time Jesus was voted saviour in chief everyone was a profit, he just pulled a crowd better.Virgin birth is an old story too there were several God's born of virgins if you believe the history.Just a couple more thing's..Why didn't The Bible say the Earth was round?Up until 700 or so years ago there was never any mention of eternal fire in Hell.Catholic's just admitted to that little addition.
All about money people.I have known alot of preachers personally and I have yet to meet one I trust.So I'm an agnostic I guess, I lack sufficient proof but they say all ya need is faith the size of a mustard seed but that's just another get you in the door plan.Last one...If there was an almighty super being what makes you think He would give a shit about the soup we live in.Seems like a rational God would have wiped us out during the industrial revolution.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 3, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> As always, my comment ignored.


nah bro, not ignored. 

i agree with ya that eye needs to reduce his slam-poetry content for clarity, but it's probably not gonna happen. 

his particular style of free verse is growing on me.


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## Zaehet Strife (Feb 4, 2013)

It will grow into a fruitful flower of incomprehensible syntax.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 4, 2013)

hydrotech364 said:


> Where do I start?Christianity is a scam, heard stories of a bible with all of the chapters that were edited out and it would be 3 ft tall.I dont trust anything that was written by Man concerning god's and I'm sure not going to trust a second edition.What you see is what you get and you should be thankful for that because nature is fuckin awesome.I guess it's hard for alot of people to realize they are on there own and there's no Valhalla or Heaven just worms and dirt or ashes, I'm being dumped in the Pacific by my old Squadron...Jesus was real in my opinion, alot of writing's about Him specifically but he would have been a short arab and not the brown haired stoner on Granny's wall.At the same time Jesus was voted saviour in chief everyone was a profit, he just pulled a crowd better.Virgin birth is an old story too there were several God's born of virgins if you believe the history.Just a couple more thing's..Why didn't The Bible say the Earth was round?Up until 700 or so years ago there was never any mention of eternal fire in Hell.Catholic's just admitted to that little addition.
> All about money people.I have known alot of preachers personally and I have yet to meet one I trust.So I'm an agnostic I guess, I lack sufficient proof but they say all ya need is faith the size of a mustard seed but that's just another get you in the door plan.Last one...If there was an almighty super being what makes you think He would give a shit about the soup we live in.Seems like a rational God would have wiped us out during the industrial revolution.


you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the god of the jews, the god of the arabs and the god of the christians are the same, this could not be farther from the truth. 

the god of the jews, the god of abraham,, jehovah, was a capricious and jealous god who commanded first and foremost that there should be no other gods before himself, thus indicating that there are other gods, but he gets to be the chief god. the entirety of the torah and the christian re-imagining of the "Old Testament" bears this out. the pharoah's magicians were able to transform staffs into serpents and whatnot, various demons and spirits were cast down, solomon used a magic ring to command demons to assist in building his first temple etc etc etc... 
all this, if assumed to be true, provides ample evidence of other supernatural powers of varying might, but jehovah was the strongest (naturally) since nobody would worship a second banana god, and thus jehovah is established as the mightiest of the many supernatural forces at work in the region. 

the god of the koran is the ONLY god, yet there are countless other supernatural forces, and each is depicted as an enemy of allah, yet allah did not simply smite them all with his smotency, thus he could not be all-powerful. an all-powerful god with that level of butthurt over opposition would hardly be expected to allow his opponents to wander freely and harass his supplicants. and yet, djinns, iblis himself, various spectres and ghouls, and all manner of nefarious spirits brought no end of bother to the moslem mythology. 

christianity brings whole new levels of confusing inconsistency to the abrahamic pantheon, with not only a father god, but a semi-divine mortal hero demigod son, a wacky intangible spirit with a very shaky backstory, and again, all manner of demons to be cast down, angels to sing the praises of the chief god, and of course the appearance of "satan" as the chief foil. it seems "monotheism" gets more crowded with each revision. 

when you get down to cases, the entire abrahamic narrative is quite inconsistent, and consistency is something i look for in a religious organization, particularly one (or three) which demands complete acceptance of their dogma despite the wobbly mythology which supports it.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 4, 2013)

the eastern religions dont hold up much better, for example, in china, the combination of ancestor worship, taosism, confucianism and buddhism results in a pantheon thats as crowded as a Delta House kegger. 

hinduism has a dizzying panoply of gods that beggars the imagination, and some of them are proper bastards. seriously, who has a god of lies and destruction that requires it's cultists to strangle and rob travelers to stave off the apocalypse? even Loki didnt get up to those kinds of shenanigans, and he got fucked by a horse!

even taken as a solo act, buddhism is kinda bizzare, a religion with gods, but the gods are pretty much just window dressing, cuz all you really need to do is get your mind right, and you win. 

on the up-side most eastern religions are very lean on the dogma, and seem to lack the rampant damnation present in the abrahamic cults. 

the closest buddhism comes to eternal damnation was pinning sun wu kong under a mountain, and that was only temporary, totally deserved, and his punishment was lifted when he promised to help out with the Journey to the West. 

taoism has a shitload of eternal torments on offer, but you have to do seriously bad shit to earn a place in the Hell of being Boiled Alive, or the Hell of Hanging Upside Down in a Vat Of Oil. nobody gets sentenced to the Hell of Being Lashed With Horse Hair Whips for not accepting the "Good News" about Shen Nong, and Shen Nong invented weed, so you know he's totally not a Narc. 

even by comparison to the Runner Up in the global religion sweepstakes, abrahamic religions come off mean-spirited, and perplexingly capricious.


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## tyler.durden (Feb 4, 2013)

Amysd said:


> Whatever your religion or belief as long as your intentions are good you will get their


We'll get their what?


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## Padawanbater2 (Feb 4, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> We'll get their what?


"there" = Heaven

Have pure intentions, you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Then what is the point? Why this life on Earth? 

Why would we need to live a human life of usually around give or take 100 years to determine if a soul that was created by an omnipotent being was good enough to enter Heaven?...

This is something that has always peaked my interest. Why not just build the human soul within the construct of human morality?

Why give it a choice to turn against it? 

It seems, from this perspective, that human choice is independent of moral decisions. One can choose to be good or choose to be bad. fdddddddd

...To be Continued....


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## rooky1985 (Feb 4, 2013)

Heaven???? Been there done that.
Some people don't understand that religion was originally developed to instill a moral compass, nothing more.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 4, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> It will grow into a fruitful flower of incomprehensible syntax.


...provided I am given proper nutrients, water, and light


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 4, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> poetry is the province of Fintan and Mannanan Mac Lir
> 
> from Mannanan, Fintan gained the Ogham, and by Ogham he created the First Poetry.
> from Mannanan, Fintan learned the hour of his death and was bound by his Weird, and through this Weird he gained the power of the Will and the Word.
> ...


...yeah, I realized after posting that principle 6 could cause a little something. Not intended. I love the rest of its message.

I freely admit that (with the little I know of 'em) the Irish interest me. _The Scottish, as well._

*ducks*


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 4, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Regardless, i think we would have much more meaningful conversations if you allowed yourself, or at least made a conscious effort, to write in a way that is easily understandable. Maybe you could write what you want first, and then explain exactly what it means second, that way you can express yourself the way you want first.


...hey, strife, I wouldn't ignore your comments. I can't stay awake the way I used to 

...I'll try what you've prescribed in your last sentence.

-------

...thing is, the conversations _are_ meaningful to me. I don't make this stuff up, a lot of it is in texts (religious, and otherwise), so someone has to understand what I am saying since it was there before me. The comprehension doesn't always arrive in a timely manner, some things are meant to be contemplated. That's how we get those 'ah-ha' moments...when we're not looking for them.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 4, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...yeah, I realized after posting that principle 6 could cause a little something. Not intended. I love the rest of its message.
> 
> I freely admit that (with the little I know of 'em) the Irish interest me. _The Scottish, as well._
> 
> *ducks*


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 4, 2013)

...link is knil *shrugs*


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## cannabineer (Feb 4, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Technically, the Greek was attempting to translate the Hebrew bible which says B'reshit, or 'In the Beginning. '





eye exaggerate said:


> ...Bereishit is "in the beginning". Considering "God Built" in Genesis, "making" makes sense lol.
> 
> ...also, I've read the idea of "gen" and "isis", which would be generations of isis. Or, of the universal 'mater' on the 6th day in Yesod / Foundation which is sex. In that act a spark / seed is placed into matter and unfolds in the womb. So yes, agreed that it is more personal.


I am not familiar with Hebrew. Are you telling me that B'reshit or Bereishit is the _title _of the first book of Torah? cn


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## cannabineer (Feb 4, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Technically, the Greek was attempting to translate the Hebrew bible which says B'reshit, or 'In the Beginning. '





meechz 024 said:


> i already challenged you sir, i want to be wise. rebuttle this for me
> 
> I pray that many people will be saved from hell by viewing this thread. *
> People are already living in hell right now on planet earth. The lake of fire is as imaginary of a place as never-never land is..deal with it.
> ...


To the purple: I meet people every few days for whom this is indeed a recommended procedure. ~holds nose~ cn


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## mindphuk (Feb 4, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> I am not familiar with Hebrew. Are you telling me that B'reshit or Bereishit is the _title _of the first book of Torah? cn


Yes. This is the actual title.


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## cannabineer (Feb 4, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Technically, the Greek was attempting to translate the Hebrew bible which says B'reshit, or 'In the Beginning. '





mindphuk said:


> Yes. This is the actual title.


Well that kills my argument. Medic!!  cn


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 4, 2013)

...I was wondering when we'd see some paw enforcement from the no po! Hi neer


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## Saltrock (Feb 5, 2013)

What intrigues me about the human race and religion, is even in our early existence most civilizations worshiped some type of god or gods. What is it about the human race that makes us wired to believe in a higher power, even though we were spread out? Is it because with intelligents comes questions, and questions produce imaginations? and imagination produces stories and stories get passed down? I think as humans we have always been curious of our origin. What is different now versus any other time in our existence is we have a lot more information on how things work on a science level and how the human race lived. So now we can make more informed decisions rather then rely in some superstitious ju ju. I do believe we have barley scratched the surface of the story of our existence.

I am not sure what to believe on how we got here. Did we just get really lucky and happen to be here by chance? Or is there a higher power. My mind says , their has to be a beginning and end to things. Things don't appear out of nowhere. So how were all the elements created out of nothing?How does nothing become something? How does a big bang that starts out the size of a grain of rice contain the amount of power it takes to create the universe? I don't completely rule out a higher power, I just don't believe in the typical run of the mill religions.

Then I also look at animals and how similar we are to them on so many levels. We eat, we shit, we have bone , muscle, blood, eyes. We breath air. How is it that we share so much physically with other animals that religious people can disregard that evidence. Myself, I can't look over those similarities. I believe things evolved and through time will adapt to fit its needs. Unless other factors occur to rapidly which makes it impossible for the evolution to take place(extinction). I know evolution and creation sounds contradicting, maybe they can meet in the middle some how. 

Peace
Salt


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## B166ER420 (Feb 5, 2013)

"that if you confess with your mouth the LORD JESUS and believe in your heart that GOD has raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED."(Romans 10:9)






Lord Jesus, I am a sinner.I believe that you died on the cross for me, that you shed your blood for the forgiveness of MY SINS.I believe on the third day you rose from the dead and went to Heaven to prepare a place for me.I accept you now as my Savior, my Lord,my God,my Friend.Come into my heart, Lord Jesus, and set me free from my sins, because you are my Savior,Jesus,"I shall not die, but have everlasting life."

 B166ER420 



You have to say it out loud..................and mean it!.............its the only way I know how to get to heaven with my lifestyle


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 5, 2013)

B166ER420 said:


> "that if you confess with your mouth the LORD JESUS and believe in your heart that GOD has raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED."(Romans 10:9)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


to fall in glorious battle ensures a place in Valhalla!

If you strive with all your might, stay true to your King, and bring honour to your family you shall not die. When you have given your last full measure, Valkyries shall sweep down on their winged steeds and spirit you away to the Hall of Warriors where the mead flow freely, the meat is forever plentiful and the sport and manly games of the Honoured Heroes never cease. 

seems to make MORE sense than your shit.


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## B166ER420 (Feb 5, 2013)

Dr Kynes said:


> seems to make MORE sense than your shit.


Grow up!!!


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 5, 2013)

B166ER420 said:


> Grow up!!!


you prefer maybe some taoism? 

Serve well your Family, Honour your ancestors, and express Filial Piety in all things. A life in Joyful Service is it's own reward, and upon departing this mortal frame, The Great Wheel Of Transmigration will turn, delivering you into your next incarnation. 

Those who Strive Nobly and complete their turn upon the Wheel shall be delivered unto the Celestial Court and The Garden Of Eternal Delights, where you may sup with The August And Pure Emperor of Jade and dice with Sun Wu Kong or recline in the Garden with the Golden Peach of Xi Wang Mu which grants eternal life, even to those outside the Jade Palace of the Celestial Court. 

STILL less capricious and cruel than your shit. 

and coincidenatlly, MUCH older, and MUCH more Ethically Consistent.


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## B166ER420 (Feb 5, 2013)

I prefer being treated with dignity,not have what I say called shit.I don't know you and you don't know me.If you don't have anything nice to say............
capricious????cruel????????........ look in the mirror.........im not perfect and niether are you


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 5, 2013)

B166ER420 said:


> I prefer being treated with dignity,not have what I say called shit.I don't know you and you don't know me.If you don't have anything nice to say............
> capricious????cruel????????........ look in the mirror.........im not perfect and niether are you


if youre selling an agenda that is capricious and cruel, such as eugenics, marxism, wahhabi islam, catholicism, general christianity, kali cultism (the thuggee stranglers) or militant environmentalism then yes, YOU are capricous and cruel. 

and youre selling it hard. 

those who reject your dogma are not non-persons, and you arent that special. 
blind acceptance of dogma isnt the sign of wisdom, it's the surest sign of the fool. 
your dogma IS shit, it is ethically contradictory, amoral, and riddled with hate.


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## NietzscheKeen (Feb 5, 2013)

I'm glad you mentioned Kali cults. Not a big fan of Derrick Jenson either, kinda comes off as the guy that has an agenda, but is scared to get his hands dirty. At least Ted Kaczynski took action.


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## Heisenberg (Feb 5, 2013)

The model is set
The Luddites don't deny it
Works rather well if only they would try it
Put cars in the air, the plane's on the ground
Scissors are safe cause the edges are round
The bells go off, we spring into action
Numbers are brilliant right down to the fraction
C'mon now! It's all realistic!
I'm not dumb, I'm just optimistic


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## GOD HERE (Feb 5, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I pray that God will soften your hearts and remove the blinders from your eyes before it's too late.
> 
> Jesus Christ lives within me
> 
> ...


Good to know this forum has it's own resident religious fanatic.


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## tyler.durden (Feb 5, 2013)

GOD HERE said:


> Good to know this forum has it's own resident religious fanatic.


Oh, it's got more than one...


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 5, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> I'm glad you mentioned Kali cults. Not a big fan of Derrick Jenson either, kinda comes off as the guy that has an agenda, but is scared to get his hands dirty. At least Ted Kaczynski took action.


i had no idea who that fucktard derrick jenson was, and now i wish i still didnt know. 

i mentioned the thuggee cult as just an example of religious fervor which reduces the unbeliever into a non-person, but this clown is fucking cracked. 

but i notice he hasnt cut off his own lifestyle to conform to his "primitivism" ideal.


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## smokermore (Feb 7, 2013)

goddamn i been stuck on this thread for almost 2 hours! only made it to page 10. hilarious stuff in here!! praise allah!!!!!


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## 420IAMthatIAM (Feb 17, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I pray that God will soften your hearts and remove the blinders from your eyes before it's too late.
> 
> Jesus Christ lives within me
> 
> ...


the problem with your religion is that they should be wearing those blinders remember before the fall they were blind when they sinned their eyes were opened that's when the trouble starts jesus said if you were blind you would have no sin


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## ultraviolet pirate (Feb 20, 2013)

the problem with ANY religion, with RELIGIOUS people, is that after it gives someone order and stability in their own life, they think others have to see the world the same way. it aint just bible bangers. its EVERY religion.


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## Sourkushman (Feb 20, 2013)

What is the New Name that Jesus Christ said he would come with?
[h=3]Revelation 3:12[/h]New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem,which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.


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## Sourkushman (Feb 20, 2013)

ultraviolet pirate said:


> the problem with ANY religion, with RELIGIOUS people, is that after it gives someone order and stability in their own life, they think others have to see the world the same way. it aint just bible bangers. its EVERY religion.


well actually the bible does say to preach the gospel so it's not religious because there is not 1 religion or denomination that does everything the bible says, obeys all the commands, they do it cause the bible says to, there's many people that belong to no religion at all they just read the bible at their houses in their spare time and read the verse about preaching then go and preach even though they do not belong to any religion or denomination.


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## Dr Kynes (Feb 20, 2013)

Sourkushman said:


> well actually the bible does say to preach the gospel so it's not religious because there is not 1 religion or denomination that does everything the bible says, obeys all the commands, they do it cause the bible says to, there's many people that belong to no religion at all they just read the bible at their houses in their spare time and read the verse about preaching then go and preach even though they do not belong to any religion or denomination.


nobody can keep all the commands in the bible simply because it is so contradictory. 

thats why your bullshit religion is so fucked up and schizophrenic.


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## OldGrowth420 (Apr 26, 2013)

Just believe in Jesus and be saved. "Jesus Save me"

Jesus will give you new life and make you whole 

Jesus came to give life and life abundantly


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## ricky1lung (Apr 26, 2013)

Apparently you can live your life as a complete nut job, do whatever you
want and hurt anyone you choose. 

All you have to do is ask for forgiveness and accept jesus on your death bed.

Well, according to everything I have heard anyways. 

Live your life, it is far too short to be repressed and controlled
by someone who wants your money and instills fear into you
to gain control over your life.

Funny how the story keeps changing over time, to suit the views
of the people in an attempt to retain control.


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## nameno (Apr 26, 2013)

I thought I had lived until I met Jesus,that's when my life got good. This world is unfolding exactly like the bible says it would.But to each his own,I don't want to change anyone.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 26, 2013)

nameno said:


> I thought I had lived until I met Jesus,that's when my life got good. This world is unfolding exactly like the bible says it would.But to each his own,I don't want to change anyone.


Where did you meet jesus at?


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## tyler.durden (Apr 26, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Where did you meet jesus at?


Probably in a Latino neighborhood. Half of those guys are named Jesus...


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## ricky1lung (Apr 27, 2013)

I don't believe in fairies in the sky, no matter who's book they come from.
Im not spiritually thirsty either. Hmmm?

I don't need to be saved or enslaved by religion.


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## OldGrowth420 (Apr 27, 2013)

When your day of dying comes the fear will grip you and you will realize your salvation is unassured. 
Pray that that day doesn't come upon you suddenly and you miss out on your chance to receive your Savior and spend forever in hell.


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## ricky1lung (Apr 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> When your day of dying comes the fear will grip you and you will realize your salvation is unassured.
> Pray that that day doesn't come upon you suddenly and you miss out on your chance to receive your Savior and spend forever in hell.


Lol, you see?
You threaten people with hell, a fictitous place. It was created to instill fear.
Surely you could not believe all writings in the bible to be factual, or could you?


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## OldGrowth420 (Apr 27, 2013)

The bible is the inspired word of God.
Hell is certainly a real place

[video=youtube;ci9KI4rSXw4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9KI4rSXw4[/video]


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The bible is the inspired word of God.
> Hell is certainly a real place
> 
> [video=youtube;ci9KI4rSXw4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9KI4rSXw4[/video]


The idea of Hell is contradictory to the existence of an omnibenevolent being


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## mindphuk (Apr 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> John 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
> 
> Walk in the light and never spiritually thirst again
> 
> ...


Quit fucking spamming!


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## tyler.durden (Apr 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The bible is the inspired word of God.
> Hell is certainly a real place


I can certainly understand why you would need the concept of Hell to be an actual place, as very few would swallow your bullshit dogma without it's threat...

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. - Richard Dawkins


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 27, 2013)

View attachment 2634016

seems legit...


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## Dr Kynes (Apr 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The bible is the inspired word of God.
> Hell is certainly a real place
> 
> [video=youtube;ci9KI4rSXw4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9KI4rSXw4[/video]



Sup Bros! Imma watch this shit so you dont have too! 

heres my running commentary:


weepent . dis is seeweeus! weepent and come to kwist oww buwwn in hewww! so you got infinite time and vast resources for the punishemnt of even the most petty infractions,, , but jesus couldnt take 5 minutes to fix his homies elmer fud voice? mane jesus is a dick. 

wait... if demons can torment your soul while you watch "secular tv" without you even knowing, how would you know you were being tormented? 

am i in torment right now? 

shit son. 

you christians are creepy as fuck. whats with all the masochhism sadism and delight in suffering? 

thought sins too? man you guys really do suck. 

"frying pan in hell filled with hells fire... " thats not how you use a frying pan bro, fire goes on the OUTSIDE, that way your sinners sizzle and get that crispy delicious skin. 

and then it was all pictures of dudes getting their junk pierced... 

yeah. so hell is basically a gay leatherbar with a fualty airconditioner and no last call... that doesnt sound so bad. 

at least for the Tops.


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## Beefbisquit (May 2, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The bible is the inspired word of God.
> Hell is certainly a real place
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9KI4rSXw4


[video=youtube_share;FRNZHFr69t4]http://youtu.be/FRNZHFr69t4[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

Say Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead to spend eternity in heaven

[SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. -Romans 10:9-10

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, -Romans 3:23

We all have sinned, we lie, we lust, we cheat, we steal.

We're sinners.

Or sins require atonement, a price we have to pay to be made right with a Holy and perfect God.

The only way to be made right with God and gain entrance onto heaven is through belief in God's Son Jesus Christ.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood&#8212;to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished&#8212; [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. -Romans 3:25-26

So now that Jesus has been sacrificed for our sins through believing in Him we can be made right with God and enter into God's Kingdom of Heaven.

There are sins we can commit to condemn us to hell and I will list them.

If we commit these sins and don't stop committing them we will end up in hell.

*Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. -1 Corinthians 6:9-10*

*But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." -Revelation 21:8*


God's judgement is right and Just always.

Feel free to comment and share your views.

The Holy Bible is the inspired word of God, and it's contents are absolutely right. 

The Holy Bible is the manual for living.

Please comment in love and with kindness, thank you.


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

There was so much spam and hate in my other thread so i decided it would be beneficial to those seeking Truth about God to open this one. Please keep this thread clean and polite. Thank you.


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## tyler.durden (May 14, 2013)

Still nothing interesting or original, another one-star thread...

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. - Richard Dawkins


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

Some people care about their spiritual existence and believe in an afterlife. To some of those people i expect that this thread will be more interesting. Like i have said before, if you don't like my threads then don't read them.


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## tyler.durden (May 14, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Some people care about their spiritual existence and believe in an afterlife. To some of those people i expect that this thread will be more interesting. Like i have said before, if you don't like my threads then don't read them.


I can't see even those people finding this thread interesting, as it is simply regurgitated scripture. I'm sure they own a bible, they could simply open it at random and start reading. Do you believe you are telling anyone things they don't know, or don't have access to? Again, I haven't seen anyone express interest, have you?


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

I think it is important to know how to get into heaven, and what could condemn one to hell. 
What could be more important, besides telling others about these things?


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## tyler.durden (May 14, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I think it is important to know how to get into heaven, and what could condemn one to hell.
> What could be more important, besides telling others about these things?


Outgrowing bronze-aged fairy-tales and making the move toward modern knowledge and reality is more important...


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

Reality is based upon experience, and my experience leads me tword God and even proves His existence.


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## tyler.durden (May 14, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Reality is based upon experience, and my experience leads me tword God and even proves His existence.


Reality is based on no one's experience, one's _perception_ of reality is. I understand your limited experience led you to your belief, but you aren't telling anyone anything they don't know, so why keep posting well-known dogma? It's just masturbation, and it's gross. You should have the decency to do that in private, or at least around those who express a desire to watch...


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

I have traveled the country and done just about everything there is to do and experience and my perception is certainly not limited. Some people don't know these things, and these are the people i am speaking to. If anyone chooses hell, or chooses not to believe that is their own choice and I'm powerless. John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." Some people will never realize the truth, and there is nothing i can do about that. I am here for God's chosen. Matthew 22: 14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen." I have a feeling that you are invited, but it is up to you to answer the call. I would guess you have prayed the prayer, now you just have to choose to believe.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 14, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> We all have sinned, we lie, we lust, we cheat, we steal.
> 
> We're sinners.


This is something that requires addressing. This is an assumption in Christianity. It plays off an odds game, as _most_ people "sin", but it's actually a huge generalization, not only because "sin" as outlined by practicing Christians by example is quite clearly subjective, whether it's outlined as objective in the Bible, I'm sure all of us, even the religious among us can agree even the most staunch Christians cherry pick their own personal dogma depending on their lifestyle. 



OldGrowth420 said:


> Or sins require atonement, a price we have to pay to be made right with a Holy and perfect God.



A system created by an all powerful being wouldn't require secondary contributions to work properly



OldGrowth420 said:


> The only way to be made right with God and gain entrance onto heaven is through belief in God's Son Jesus Christ.


Again, this is not a system that would have been designed by an all powerful being, just think about it for a moment... 



OldGrowth420 said:


> So now that Jesus has been sacrificed for our sins through believing in Him we can be made right with God and enter into God's Kingdom of Heaven.


Again... not a system that would have been designed by a being with unlimited amounts of power.. 



OldGrowth420 said:


> There are sins we can commit to condemn us to hell and I will list them.
> 
> If we commit these sins and don't stop committing them we will end up in hell.
> *Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. -1 Corinthians 6:9-10*


There are sins that humanity can commit that will eliminate any possibility for forgiveness. Ask yourself.. is this the quality of a supreme being? Is this the quality of an omnibenevolent being? Is a finite crime punishable by infinite torment justice? 



OldGrowth420 said:


> God's judgement is right and Just always.


What if God chooses to infect a child with cancer 9 years into its life? Is God's judgment "right" then?


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## automated (May 14, 2013)

What do you expect you'll be doing when you enter either of those Oldgrowth420 ? (heaven or hell)

Any plans ? any instructions ? cos, all them books claim/describe the truth of god and how to pass judgement which will lead you to either.
But I have never read anything about what your suposed to do when you get there, or the instructions on how to behave once there for that matter.

What if you get into heaven and its a big let down ? can you become abusive and get booted down still ?

Or, if you went down, and behave well, is there still chance to attone ? or is his judgement final ?

I personally believe in neither, but its something I've been wanting to ask, not to spite or undermine.


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## tyler.durden (May 14, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *I have traveled the country and done just about everything there is to do and experience and my perception is certainly not limited.*


Wow! You've traveled the entire country and have done just about everything there is to do and experience? Never heard anyone say that before. Please share some of your most interesting experiences with psychedelic drugs and sexual encounters with multiple partners, parachuting and bungee jumping, cave diving and flying small aircraft. I'll bet it's fascinating. Your perception is not limited? Perhaps you'd be kind enough to share the major literary works that you've read that go against christian ideas, and your take on the works of your favorite philosophers? 



> Some people don't know these things, and these are the people i am speaking to.


Who have you run across on this forum who doesn't know these things?


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

What if God chooses to infect a child with cancer 9 years into its life? Is God's judgment "right" then?

I seriously doubt God would infect a child with cancer.
God is both kind and severe, and it's really none of business to judge anything that He does.
He loves me enough to sacrifice His own Son in a horribly painful and demeaning way to save us, that is Love to me.
And if God wants to condemn us or save us how is that any of my business? He created me, gave me love and a family and a great country and a beautiful earth to thrive on, not to mention chose me to inherit eternal life and gave me the chance to become one of His sons. I fear God, and rightly so.. And I'm not about to question anything He does or judge Him in any way. He blesses me and afflicts me and I'm content with whatever he gives me because i know that God is right and i deserve what i get.


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

automated said:


> What do you expect you'll be doing when you enter either of those Oldgrowth420 ? (heaven or hell)
> 
> Any plans ? any instructions ? cos, all them books claim/describe the truth of god and how to pass judgement which will lead you to either.
> But I have never read anything about what your suposed to do when you get there, or the instructions on how to behave once there for that matter.
> ...


1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him--

I can't wait to get to heaven, I've heard accounts of people who were taken to heaven by God and it sounds like an absolutely marvelous place. From what i have heard the moment you think to do something it happens, the music is more incredible than anything imaginable and flows directly from God's spiritual body. Every saved person has there own paradise especially designed to suit them in heaven. I imagine mine will be full of redwood like giant trees and mountain streams and flowers in every direction as far s the eye can see, with amazing people to enjoy it with. When we get to heaven we have the mind of Christ according to the experiences i have heard and only think on good wholesome things, there is no sex, and no sin. So there is really nothing to fight over or get bummed out about. 

I just plan to worship God an enjoy life much like i do here, and i know God will give me anything i want or could imagine wanting.

I know that alot of angels were kicked out of heaven for rebelling against God but i have no idea if we can somehow fall out of God's graces and get kicked out.

His judgement is final, once you are sent to hell thats it. No coming back, just endless torment.


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## ILikePotAlot (May 14, 2013)

I tend to forget everything after genesis, I cannot be bad for God made us all god within man.


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Wow! You've traveled the entire country and have done just about everything there is to do and experience? Never heard anyone say that before. Please share some of your most interesting experiences with psychedelic drugs and sexual encounters with multiple partners, parachuting and bungee jumping, cave diving and flying small aircraft. I'll bet it's fascinating. Your perception is not limited? Perhaps you'd be kind enough to share the major literary works that you've read that go against christian ideas, and your take on the works of your favorite philosophers?
> 
> 
> 
> Who have you run across on this forum who doesn't know these things?


I have never parachuted or bungee jumped or flown small aircraft as i am afraid of heights, but I've mountain climbed, white water rafted, had orgies, taken nearly every drug known to man, been engaged, slept with ten women, drove and hitchhiked nearly all of the country minus some deep south and most of the east coast, read many great works of literature and taken enough drugs to forget them. I wouldn't read anything that i know could hurt my faith as it is most valuable to me, and i certainly don't condone the sinful things that i have done when i wasn't following God. But i can tell you that sin left me feeling empty and used up and the only wholesome things i have found in life are loving God and others, the love of a woman, experiencing the earth, and listening to good music or good concerts. And experiencing the arts. The sex was meaningless and left me feeling dirty grimy and ashamed. The drugs polluted my body and used up my once brilliant mind, and all my experiences have shown me the futility of life on this earth and the importance of living a Godly life, and i honestly can't see how anyone could be diverted from this conclusion. Read Proverbs and Ecclesiastes in the bible, Solomon the wisest an who has ever lived had the same conclusion. My favorite writers are Emerson and some Thoreau. I admire C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien and i really dig Star Wars. I also really dig good indie films and beautiful poetry. I listen to classic psychedelic rock from the 60's and also enjoy Folk music and blues and Classical. I love attending concerts, going to plays, and seeing Philharmonic performances and curling up under a tree or anywhere outside with a good inspiring book. 

Not to mention long walks on the beach lol
This is starting to sound like a dating ad.


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## InceptorProventus (May 14, 2013)

No offense but, get your head out of the bible and approach it with a "open mind". No human can write down the exact rules and regulations for one person to follow. We are all unique and the process to witch we acquire "ascension" is unique too. Every human being knows right from wrong, it's our social environment that influences darkness and evil to creep in.

The christian bible is heavily based upon the BagvadGita from India, predating early Christianity by over 4 000 years, and if anything conveys the true meaning of existence as it is, without endless stories do's and don't do's. Even the Koran from Islam conveys the message across better than the Bible can.

Fact of the matter is it all comes down to LOVE, learning to love yourself before loving others, cause how can we attempt at a unified species when we can't except yourself, flaws and differences. Love, respect and acceptance is key to enlighten ourselves to the infinite probabilities after our vessel (body) has served it's purpose.


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## automated (May 14, 2013)

That is one of the reasons I dont really believe in god's heaven or hell though.

His word is final, but will chance his mind when he doesnt like how his underlings behave.
In my opinion it seems to be a wrathfull/resentfull god too, once you get sent to hell, there is no going back.
These are the characteristics of a tyrant I believe, and not an all loving god.

In the real world we have all these rules, which apparently become worthless once you enter heaven. (no sex for example)
Seriously, one of the worlds most practiced activities suddenly gets erased.
I could imagine, a couple having entered heaven, having loved the sprituality of their intercourse, which can now only hold hands, getting upset. 
(I would imagine this being a severe let down)

This piece of *Corinthians 2:9,* suggestes that nooone has seen, heard or conceived it (heaven), yet, there have been people whom apparently been brought there and back and shared their experiences as you described them (rather detailed too). 
Or am I totally missing something here ?


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

InceptorProventus said:


> No offense but, get your head out of the bible and approach it with a "open mind". No human can write down the exact rules and regulations for one person to follow. We are all unique and the process to witch we acquire "ascension" is unique too. Every human being knows right from wrong, it's our social environment that influences darkness and evil to creep in.
> 
> The christian bible is heavily based upon the BagvadGita from India, predating early Christianity by over 4 000 years, and if anything conveys the true meaning of existence as it is, without endless stories do's and don't do's. Even the Koran from Islam conveys the message across better than the Bible can.
> 
> Fact of the matter is it all comes down to LOVE, learning to love yourself before loving others, cause how can we attempt at a unified species when we can't except yourself, flaws and differences. Love, respect and acceptance is key to enlighten ourselves to the infinite probabilities after our vessel (body) has served it's purpose.


I think my mind could not be more open when approaching the bible as i believe what it says. It seems risky to say that two billion people are wrong and that you know what happens after death better than those two billion people, and all of the divinely inspired prophets of God. The bible was written through man by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Bible in no way borrows from any text and is inspired by God.


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

[h=1]Fulfilled  Bible Prophecy[/h] _ &#8220;Prophecy is history written in advance.&#8221;_&#8212;Oliver B. Greene​ The Word of God is a book containing hundreds of detailed prophecies. This page presents numerous prophecies concerning our Precious Saviour, Jesus Christ. Not only were the predictions made 1,000 years before Christ came from Heaven to earth, but they were made over 500 years before crucifixion was first used anywhere in the world as a form of capital punishment! Crucifixion didn't exist when the prophecies were made. The Old Testament prophets wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" -2nd Peter 1:21.
A scientist picked out 48 such prophecies and determined that the probability of one man randomly fulfilling them all is 1 in 10 to the exponent of 157. That is one followed by 157 zeros! Your chances of winning a typical lottery jackpot is about 1 in 108. (100,000,000). Yet, Jesus fulfilled all these prophecies! Please read It Was Not Finished!

* Concerning his birth * *Prophesied** Fulfilled *1. Born of the seed of womanGen 3:15Gal 4:4 2. Born of a virginIsaiah 7:14Mt 1:18-25 3. Seed of AbrahamGen 22:18Mt 1:14. Seed of IsaacGen 21:12Luke 3:23+34 5. Seed of JacobNum 24:17Luke 3:346. Seed of DavidJeremiah 23:5Luke 3:317. Tribe of JudahGen 49:10Rev 5:58. Family line of JesseIsaiah 11:1Luke 3:32 9. Born in BethlehemMicah 5:2Mt 2:1-6 10. Herod kills the childrenJeremiah 31:15Mt 2:16-18  [h=2]Concerning his nature [/h]  [h=2]Prophesied [/h]  [h=2]Fulfilled [/h] 11. He pre-existed creationMic 5:21 Pet 1:20 12. He shall be called LordPs 110:1Acts 2:36 13. Called Immanuel (God with us)Isaiah 7:14Mt 1:22-2314. ProphetDeut 18:18-19Acts 3:18-2515. PriestPs 110:4Heb 5:5-616. JudgeIsaiah 33:22Jn 5:22-2317. KingPs 2:6Jn 18:33-3718. Anointed by the SpiritIsaiah 11:2Mt 3:16-17 19. His zeal for GodPs 69:9Jn 2:15-17  [h=2]Concerning his ministry [/h]  [h=2]Prophesied [/h]  [h=2]Fulfilled [/h] 20. Preceded by a messengerIsaiah 40:3Mt 3:1-3 21. To begin in GalileeIsaiah 9:1-2Mt 4:12-17 22. Ministry of MiraclesIsaiah 35:5-6Mt 9:35;11:4 23. Teacher of parablesPs 78:1-4Mt 13:34-35 24. He was to enter the templeMal 3:1Mt 21:10-12 25. Enter Jerusalem on donkeyZech 9:9Mt 21:1-7 26. Stone of stumbling to JewsIsaiah 28:16; Ps 118:22 1 Pet 2:6-827. Light to GentilesIsaiah 49:6Acts 13:46-48  [h=2]The day Jesus was crucified [/h]  [h=2]Prophesied [/h]  [h=2]Fulfilled [/h] 28. Betrayed by a friendPsalm 41:9John 13:18-27 29. Sold for 30 pieces of silverZech 11:12Matthew 26:14-1530. 30 pieces thrown in TempleZech 11:13Matthew 27:3-531. 30 pieces buys potters fieldZech 11:13Matthew 27:6-1032. Forsaken by His disciplesZech 13:7Mark 14:27+50 33. Accused by false witnessesPsalm 35:11+20-21 Matthew 26:59-6134. Silent before accusersIsaiah 53:7Matthew 27:12-14 35. Wounded and bruisedIsaiah 53:4-61 Pet 2:21-25 36. Beaten and spit uponIsaiah 50:6Matthew 26:67-68 37. MockedPsalm 22:6-8Matthew 27:27-3138. Fell under the crossPsalm 109:24-25John 19:17; Lk23:26 39. Hands and feet piercedPsalm 22:16John 20:24-28 40. Crucified with thievesIsaiah 53:12Mt 27:38 41. Prayed for enemiesIsaiah 53:12Luke 23:34 42. Rejected by His own peopleIsaiah 53:3John 19:14-15 43. Hated without causePsalm 69:4John 15:25 44. Friends stood aloofPsalm 38:11Luke 22:54;23:49 45. People wag their headsPs 22:7;109:25Mt 27:3946. People stared at HimPs 22:17Lk 23:35 47. Cloths divided and gambled forPs 22:18Jn 19:23-2448. Became very thirstyPs 22:15Jn 19:28 49. Gall and vinegar offered HimPs 69:21Mt 27:3450. His forsaken cryPs 22:1Mt 27:46 51. Committed Himself to GodPs 31:5Lk 23:46 52. Bones not brokenPs 34:20Jn 19:32-36 53. Heart brokenPs 69:20;22:14Jn 19:34 54. His side piercedZech 12:10Jn 19:34+37 55. Darkness over the landAmos 8:9Lk 23:44-45 56. Buried in rich man's tombIsa 53:9Mt 27:57-60  [h=2]His Resurrection & Ascension [/h]  [h=2]Prophesied [/h]  [h=2]Fulfilled [/h] 57. Raised from the deadPs 16:8-11Acts 2:24-31 58. Begotten as Son of GodPs 2:7Acts 13:32-35 59. Ascended to GodPs 68:18Eph 2:8-10 60. Seated beside GodPs 110:1Heb 1:3+13 
 Today, the only way Bible scoffers can explain away this astronomical probability is to discredit the prophecies in one way or another. The Bible foretold of these scoffers in 2nd Peter 3:3-4...
* "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?"*​ Their only alternative is to accept that God is the author of the Scriptures. The Bible is a reliable book of genuine divine prophecy. You can trust it! Please don't be fooled by the hordes of Christ-rejecters who deny the Bible.
The evidence of divine prophecy presented here is just a tiny portion of the proofs available to establish the divine origin of the Bible. Yet, they are more than sufficient to prove the inspiration of the Bible. There will always be men who scoff at the Bible. You, however, can be confident when you read your Bible that God is the Author, for it is written:
* "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe" -1st Thessalonians 2:13

taken from *http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/fulfilled_prophecy.htm
​


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

automated said:


> That is one of the reasons I dont really believe in god's heaven or hell though.
> 
> His word is final, but will chance his mind when he doesnt like how his underlings behave.
> In my opinion it seems to be a wrathfull/resentfull god too, once you get sent to hell, there is no going back.
> ...


The thing is He doesn't change His mind, His Word is our judge and never changes. God doesn't change his ideals He constantly lives by them. His eternal edicts condemn us, but there are very few to follow as i have outlined them in this thread.

*Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. -1 Corinthians 6:9-10 

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelation 21:8

*God is sometimes angry and sometimes wrathful 
[h=3]Romans 11:22[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.

He created us in His image so you can imagine He feels similarly the emotions we feel.


[h=3]Genesis 1:27[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in His _own_ image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 

I believe and from the experiences i have heard that we don't remember much of our lives on earth to be sad about not having them any more. Being in heaven will be an ecstasy and we will probably feel so fulfilled as to not need things like sex.

I am thinking that when these individuals went to heaven they were in spirit bodies, so that verse doesn't really apply to them as they didn't use their ears or their eyes for anything.


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

He is severe when we disobey to keep us in line, and we choose our own path, whether to trust in Christ and be saved or to deny Him and go to hell.
In essence we condemn ourselves. The choice is clear. Believe in Jesus, and His resurrection and be saved. 
It takes only the smallest faith, even if you don't believe just choose to and try your best.

*Just say Jesus is Lord and believe that He rose from the dead!*


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## Jehster (May 14, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> He is severe when we disobey to keep us in line, and we choose our own path, whether to trust in Christ and be saved or to deny Him and go to hell.
> In essence we condemn ourselves. The choice is clear. Believe in Jesus, and His resurrection and be saved.
> It takes only the smallest faith, even if you don't believe just choose to and try your best.
> 
> *Just say Jesus is Lord and believe that He rose from the dead!*


Right, in a similar point to what padawan previously said, do you honestly believe that this ALMIGHTY BEING requires us to say HE (you sure this thing has a gender?) rose from the dead? If i can realise that the majority of religons have been used as form of social control, rather than as true points of worship, surely Jesus or God can realise that. they are horribly tainted and don't really have anything to do with faith, and vowing your faith to them would actually be a really reckless & stupid move. Surely this almighty being can just look into our souls or whatever and just quickly check if we are good or bad?

I really hope this is the case, as i personally am never going to fully back something i do not, and will never understand, as this might cause more ill-informed people to do the same.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 14, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> What if God chooses to infect a child with cancer 9 years into its life? Is God's judgment "right" then?
> 
> I seriously doubt God would infect a child with cancer.
> God is both kind and severe, and it's really none of business to judge anything that He does.
> ...


In order to have any meaningful conversation, you need to get away from definitive answers and approach the questions as legitimate possibilities. 

You're saying "why would he?", then in the very next breath say "well if he did, it would still be right because he's God". So already you're leaving no wiggle room. To you, God could murder hundreds of babies (like he's done multiple times before throughout history according to the bible) and it would still be right because God did it. That is the type of thinking that leads to the darker parts of organized religion.


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

? (Noticing the skirting of the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.)


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

You are still trusting in your limited experience and finite ideas to guide you into the afterlife. I'm going to choose the time tested, prophecy proven path that brings me peace and holiness and countless answered prayers.


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## OldGrowth420 (May 14, 2013)

Many times i have prayed, and experienced instant miracles.


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## Beefbisquit (May 14, 2013)

God put two white people in the desert, and they fucked and now we've got everyone. Seems so plausible....

[video=youtube_share;mPIsSNEUmc4]http://youtu.be/mPIsSNEUmc4[/video]

Love this video... lol


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (May 14, 2013)

LMAO ^Just watched that movie for the first time in years last night.


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## Beefbisquit (May 14, 2013)




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## tyler.durden (May 14, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I have never parachuted or bungee jumped or flown small aircraft as i am afraid of heights, but I've mountain climbed, white water rafted, had orgies, taken nearly every drug known to man, been engaged, slept with ten women, drove and hitchhiked nearly all of the country minus some deep south and most of the east coast, *read many great works of literature and taken enough drugs to forget them. I wouldn't read anything that i know could hurt my faith as it is most valuable to me*, and i certainly don't condone the sinful things that i have done when i wasn't following God. But i can tell you that sin left me feeling empty and used up and the only wholesome things i have found in life are loving God and others, the love of a woman, experiencing the earth, and listening to good music or good concerts. And experiencing the arts. The sex was meaningless and left me feeling dirty grimy and ashamed. The drugs polluted my body and used up my once brilliant mind, and all my experiences have shown me the futility of life on this earth and the importance of living a Godly life, and i honestly can't see how anyone could be diverted from this conclusion. Read Proverbs and Ecclesiastes in the bible, Solomon the wisest an who has ever lived had the same conclusion. My favorite writers are Emerson and some Thoreau. I admire C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien and i really dig Star Wars. I also really dig good indie films and beautiful poetry. I listen to classic psychedelic rock from the 60's and also enjoy Folk music and blues and Classical. I love attending concerts, going to plays, and seeing Philharmonic performances and curling up under a tree or anywhere outside with a good inspiring book.
> 
> Not to mention long walks on the beach lol
> This is starting to sound like a dating ad.


You read many great literary works, but don't remember them? And none of these great works opposed christian dogma? If you have never read anything that shows the weaknesses and contradictions of christianity, your perspective is very limited, indeed. I believe it is a huge red flag to have invested in ideas that are so fragile that simply reading opposing material would be a danger to those ideas. My beliefs are built on a solid foundation, and I don't fear challenging them. In fact, I often subject them to challenge to see how they fair. It seems to me if were truly the word of god, it could withstand any challenge. IOW, god's ideas so flimsy that you fear they won't be able to stand up opposition. That's not the type of weak shit I would choose to go with...


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## tyler.durden (May 14, 2013)

Oops, posted the below twice...


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## tyler.durden (May 14, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *Fulfilled  Bible Prophecy*
> 
> _ &#8220;Prophecy is history written in advance.&#8221;_&#8212;Oliver B. Greene​ The Word of God is a book containing hundreds of detailed prophecies. This page presents numerous prophecies concerning our Precious Saviour, Jesus Christ. Not only were the predictions made 1,000 years before Christ came from Heaven to earth, but they were made over 500 years before crucifixion was first used anywhere in the world as a form of capital punishment! Crucifixion didn't exist when the prophecies were made. The Old Testament prophets wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" -2nd Peter 1:21.
> A scientist picked out 48 such prophecies and determined that the probability of one man randomly fulfilling them all is 1 in 10 to the exponent of 157. That is one followed by 157 zeros! Your chances of winning a typical lottery jackpot is about 1 in 108. (100,000,000). Yet, Jesus fulfilled all these prophecies! Please read It Was Not Finished!
> ...


Logic Fail! You can't use the bible to prove the legitimacy of the bible. The bible says there are prophecies, and that they were fulfilled. Any source outside the bible that backs this up? Do you know the story of Horus and Osiris? It is ancient Egyptian mythology written millennia before the bible that is almost the exact same story as god and jesus: born of a virgin, 12 disciples, testing by the demon under-lord, and finally bodily ascension into heaven. Christianity is simply a cheap retelling of this story, so how can you believe it is legitimate? 

http://operation513.blogspot.com/2008/10/comparing-osiris-horus-and-jesus.html

Or, for those you prefer YT videos - 

[video=youtube;e1CWBKRWIg0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CWBKRWIg0[/video]


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 15, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Logic Fail! You can't use the bible to prove the legitimacy of the bible. The bible says there are prophecies, and that they were fulfilled. Any source outside the bible that backs this up? Do you know the story of Horus and Osiris? It is ancient Egyptian mythology written millennia before the bible that is almost the exact same story as god and jesus: born of a virgin, 12 disciples, testing by the demon under-lord, and finally bodily ascension into heaven. Christianity is simply a cheap retelling of this story, so how can you believe it is legitimate?
> 
> http://operation513.blogspot.com/2008/10/comparing-osiris-horus-and-jesus.html
> 
> ...


10,500 BC eh?


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## trueg115 (May 15, 2013)

I agree with everything you said Oldgrowth! If you want to check out my story, https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/633870-using-marijuana-part-your-prayer.html here is a spot where i was able to give my testimony.


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## PetFlora (May 15, 2013)

Said it before, looks like it bares repeating here, but elaborated:

First, the universe is vast. We are not the only lifeforms. Many are far more TECHNICALLY advanced, and if possible, even more diabolical than our current rulers (who do the bidding of off worlders- or else).

Life on earth is an artificial construct of duality (light v dark), otherwise known as the Matrix. It is controlled/operated by an artificial intelligence (ginormous computer). The ONE true creator is only light. The life-form known as Jesus, said _Of my self, alone, I do nothing, and Greater things than these shall ye do_ It is the father within that doeth the works. His true teachings were of course usurped by the dark forces. Their spin on the truth has been used to control us ever since. 

"We" are like lobsters in a heating pot. Those on the bottom (closest to the flame) have become accustomed to 90* degree and rapidly rising temps. For them, this fucked up world is normal. They do not question WHY? They accept this fucked up world on face value, and try to find solace in religions. They do not see that these religions control, divide, and conquer. 

Our true power is within, not without. By searching without (prayers), we give our power away to those who collect the energy, and use it against 'us' for their own diabolical reasons. 

I recommend George Kavassilas website *Our Journey Home*, or Walter Russel teachings. Search: *The Secret of Light[/B**]*


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## Beefbisquit (May 15, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> Said it before, looks like it bares repeating here, but elaborated:
> 
> First, the universe is vast. We are not the only lifeforms. Many are far more TECHNICALLY advanced, and if possible, even more diabolical than our current rulers (who do the bidding of off worlders- or else).
> 
> ...


*

Sounds like a shitty L. Ron Hubbard book... but even less evidence, and more assumptions.*


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## mindphuk (May 15, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> Said it before, looks like it bares repeating here, but elaborated:
> 
> First, the universe is vast. We are not the only lifeforms. Many are far more TECHNICALLY advanced, and if possible, even more diabolical than our current rulers (who do the bidding of off worlders- or else).
> 
> ...


*
Ironic, you think this all needs repeating, yet you continue to fail to answer the simple questions that people have asked you multiple times in various threads...

Why do you believe this to be reality? What evidence do you have to support this belief? I think many of us already know WHAT you believe, but we want to know WHY you believe and if there is compelling reason for any of us to believe it too. BTW, did the Wachowski Brothers get their idea from Kavassilas or was it the other way around/*


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## OldGrowth420 (May 16, 2013)

Galatians 5:13-26

[h=3]Life by the Spirit[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[SUP][a][/SUP]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: &#8220;Love your neighbor as yourself.&#8221;[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]15 [/SUP]If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[SUP][c][/SUP] you want. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions [SUP]21 [/SUP]and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.


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## silasraven (May 16, 2013)

admit that Christ is your savior threw all your faults and MANS CURSES. and you will be spared threw all of it. just pray for sight and wisdom as well. it helps.


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## nameno (May 16, 2013)

Hello Old Growth,I set here amazed again, I can not quote scripture very good but I know it says people of the world can not understand the bible until they are filled with the Spirit,to them it's foolish.
The world is unfolding exactly as it says it would, and some still will not believe.
My life has been getting better since I started trying His way of living,I just thought I had been living before
I'm glad he feeds it to me slowly, I couldn't handle it all at once.
It hasn't been long since he reminded me the bible lives (there will be a lot that don't understand that).
My rate of growth is related to how much I put into living a Christ-like life & my faith grows faster when I'm around like minded people.
Man all that and I just stopped by to say Hi!
Have a great day!


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## ILikePotAlot (May 17, 2013)

You will not commit any of the sins that will deny you your heaven.


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## Marlboro47 (May 17, 2013)

Oh God. Quit worring... Tomorrow will worry about itsself.

Jesus is gonna steal all the souls back eventually then if your too embarassed to live by his rules just ask him to put you down after he shows you all the good stuff.

Also... If you wanna fuck with the final anti christ and be tested like every other christian then id suggest you say something we don't know.

The bible is everywear bro and everyone knows whats going on.

Quit pretending like people are bad for serving their masters...


But to answer ur first question the losers serve no one. ahahahha. Those who speak in the tongue speak to God.


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## Marlboro47 (May 17, 2013)

Ahahah teh Devil serves the Lord and the Lord serves the Lord of Lords.



Old test is false... and bs. also we dont know if the new testament was changed... WHy not just seek a Godly understanding then leaning on some irrigant wanna be idol. Beware the idol worshippers ahahhahahah

ALso admit the Savior came in the flesh of man in front of men on earth... ALso that he died for your sins and know everyone after him supposidly since he said the dead will remain dead(the people who died before his arrival) bla bla bla everyone is saved and if you seek to know Christ and hopefully find him in your heart he will admit to his father that your trying or that you are a good boy or that your worthy of overcoming this crappy ass planet and a bunch of other good stuff and know that the Lord will direct your footsteps and there is nothing more to worry about. Also know that athiests im sure are serving their own master and pretending to be w/e and what not. The only thing you can truely do to help them is to convince them that living a healthy loving life free of sins and evil that it is better also to admit that serving life has more power then death.


I mean who serves death and is not dead already?

The luke warm ahahahhahahha!

Serve life, and don't correct me if your a christian faggot  real christians dont correct the wicked. so if u correct me that means ur a fail anti christ. ahahahhahhaha and ur gonna tell me im going to hell and yadad a dydada ydad just stfu and eat earth.


ALso we are defiled by the words we speak... So keep that in mind... ALso know that if your were not angry at me that the demons in you are and that you need to learn how to control the demons and learn how to destroy the wicked one and there is so much for you guys to learn that it causes an embarrassment to the human raise that your brainwashed by the evil temptation and sin that awaits after reading the bible.

Im not Christian fuck that I aint giving no body rep and especcially because I dont take part in wicked or evil deeds but I rather expand the mind rather then depletat it like a moron who depletes his own brain as he gets older he gets stupider.... Just try not to correct me and ur wont be in danger.........


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## Beefbisquit (May 17, 2013)

Marlboro47 said:


> Oh God. Quit worring... Tomorrow will worry about itsself.
> 
> Jesus is gonna steal all the souls back eventually then if your too embarassed to live by his rules just ask him to put you down after he shows you all the good stuff.
> 
> ...





Marlboro47 said:


> Ahahah teh Devil serves the Lord and the Lord serves the Lord of Lords.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here we go again.... 


[video=youtube_share;1D5Sa2Yq-2g]http://youtu.be/1D5Sa2Yq-2g[/video]


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## cannabineer (May 17, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Outgrowing bronze-aged fairy-tales and making the move toward modern knowledge and reality is more important...


Some of those bronzed aged fairies are sort a hawt. cn


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## GOD HERE (May 18, 2013)

The OP is a nutcase.


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## mudminer (May 18, 2013)

OP is obviously keen on allowing the bible (gods infallible word) to "prove" his beliefs are the only right way. God, in his "infallible omniscient wisdom" orders his prophet Samuel, to annoint Saul king. Later god REPENTS from this decision (changes his mind, realizes it was wrong) and orders this same prophet to annoint another man king in his place. If an all knowing being realizes even one time that even one decision was such a bad idea that he needs to change his mind concerning it, and goes for a re-do, he is obviously not "infallible". So god CAN in fact (by his own admission) be wrong, his "infallible" written word is at best "NOT infallible" and the basis for the OP's beliefs (that he is soooo insistent on quoting to us) is bogus. INFALLIBILITY FAIL!


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## tyler.durden (May 18, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Here we go again....
> 
> 
> [video=youtube_share;1D5Sa2Yq-2g]http://youtu.be/1D5Sa2Yq-2g[/video]


LOL! I missed Marlboro, in the RIU xian bag of mixed nuts, he is the cashews...


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## tyler.durden (May 18, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> Some of those bronzed aged fairies are sort a hawt. cn



I wrote bronze-aged fairy-_tails_


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## NietzscheKeen (May 18, 2013)

* " Loud Noises!" *


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## Beefbisquit (May 18, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> LOL! I missed Marlboro, in the RIU xian bag of mixed nuts, he is the the cashews...


Maybe this video is slightly more accurate... lol

[video=youtube;GmXGVDnPU9o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmXGVDnPU9o[/video]


----------



## Zaehet Strife (May 19, 2013)

It seems to me Oldgrowth, that you are extremely scared. And that you just don't know how to control your fear. 

It's ok though, everyone is scared... but we all have varying degrees in our ability of controlling that fear. 

You are merely in the same category as vast majority of people on this planet.


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## OldGrowth420 (May 19, 2013)

I certainly fear God. He has lovingly chastised me severely in the past through spiritual afflictions and other means that have taught me to straighten up my life and live for Jesus. I am afraid of not taking my responsibility to live for others and do my best to guide you all seriously, if i let even one of you perish I cant imagine the punishment i would endure. It's my responsibility to be God's messenger, spreading His wisdom, laws, and love. To whom much is given much is required. 
*Luke 12:48*

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.




Yes, i am afraid of God. Of death? I fear going in a painful way but i rest assured of my eternal salvation. I feel God working in my life everyday, and there is no way for me to deny Him. 

Blessed are those who believe blindly.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (May 19, 2013)

Does it bother you that it's been detailed throughout human history that organized religions are the product of ancient unknowns and the desperate attempt at answering them through a thick veil of racism, homophobia and misogyny?

Or that the Christian bible has been translated dozens if not hundreds of times according to the ruler of the times opinion or political pressure?

How can you look at all the historical inaccuracies within the bible and still make the claim that it is divine? 

How is using the bible as a moral compass more reasonable than using science, statistics, thoughtful judgment and situational context, and more importantly, why would an omnipotent being with supreme wisdom and moral judgment support such a position? 


If this was any other subject, math for instance, you would not be taken seriously. You present the idea that everything inside your math book is right no matter what, I review it and it says on page 1: 2 + 2 = 5, I tell you that's incorrect and I can demonstrate it, the only reason there aren't skeptics of mathematics like there are with organized religions is because people have a very strong emotional connection to the idea, nobody bases their life on math.. That's why the amount of people claiming to be non religious or agnostic has been increasing the past decade, more people have access to information and the excuse to not criticize organized religion because it's not politically correct gets weaker by the day.


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## tyler.durden (May 20, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Blessed are those who believe blindly.


Thanks for the new siggy. I'd bet even the theists here would find this sentiment disgusting. Like I said before, you do more to turn off people from christianity than I ever could...


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## trueg115 (May 20, 2013)

It is not blessed are those who believe blindly, it is blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe. And this was referring to the risen Savior, meaning blessed are those who believe without seeing him. The evidence is still there, faiths definition is the evidence of things not seen. There is still evidence there to support our side about Jesus and as we come to believe, he shows himself to us and he has promised to do with every believer. So we have evidence in ourselves that he is alive therefor we are not blind, because we see but you do not see because he is not in you. But through faith, looking at the sign of the cross of christ, which is powerful enough to save anyone. Along with our testimony is showing the case for a God, not to mention his eternal qualities in his creation, showing there is a creator.


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## Nether Region (May 20, 2013)

Dearest OP, I believe there are actually over 200 books written, but only 66 made it into the bible. If this is true, do you not wonder what is in the other books, and why they were ommitted? Who decided which ones would make the cut?


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## Nevaeh420 (May 23, 2013)

I didnt read the whole thread but I'm going to leave My two cents...

I believe heaven is ascending to the next life, being born again in a utopian society where most things are perfect because that race of beings have made it so. You will have a body, and enjoy life to the fullest and who knows what kind of splendor you will experience. I'm sure God has picked souls to be born again in different locations throughout the cosmos, but depending on how well you followed your conscience, you will be blessed to different levels of what you can handle and deserve. I dont believe you need to follow any religion to make the ascention but rather follow what your conscience says. Its good to be good but no one can ever be perfect so do what makes you feel good but do it for The Higher Power and others. Your God has the perfect place waiting for you, but love this life while you are alive. Who knows what kind of creature you will be, but you are going to love it because you and your God will be one again. Maybe God is planning where you will exist again right now depending on your interests and wants. I'm sure its going to be pure bliss for the "saved" and God is going to do "exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think".

I dont believe in hell, personally. I believe if you are a wicked person than God will just delete your soul after you die, and never to be born again. I dont believe God would eternally punish people forever and ever; thats a scare tactic to make you believe in a certain religion. So the worst case scenario, you will just be deleted and never to be born again, but thats just My theory and I dont know what God has planned for the wicked. 

The sins that will condemn you to hell (or to be deleted, IMO) is not following your good conscience. Obviously you can make mistakes and plenty of them, but what does your conscience tell you? because our bodies are the temple of God and He is our best conscience. Only YOU know what your sins are, because if you do what you believe is right than it most likely is right. And if you do something "wrong" and you know it, than it most likely is wrong. No religion should be able to tell you what sins are because you know. So how many sins can you do? I'm sure its alot because its written "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..." If your a perpetual sinner than thats between you and God, but God loves the sinner but just not the sin!

I'm sure God loves us all in peculiar ways because after all, He made us all. It is also written "For My thoughts _are_ not your thoughts, Nor _are_ your ways My ways,&#8221; says the Lord. For _as_ the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts." So we dont know exactly what God is up to but I can assure you its grand. You dont even need to believe in God because He believes in YOU and He will save you from things you cant handle. But to know Him as Daddy is wonderful and I love My Daddy!

These are just My opinons and they cant be verified or denied. God loves us all!

I actually believe that I AM the Song of God and you can read about My beliefs in the thread below!

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/600992-i-found-like-dozen-videos.html

The thread starts off slow, but its whats in the middle. Just click on the link above!

~PEACE~


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## trueg115 (May 23, 2013)

Watch out for the false Prophet in the above comment. He believes he is the Christ.

Watch out, for many will come in my name claiming I am HE and the time is near. Do not follow them. said Jesus. 

He claims to use scripture but denies God by his works and beliefs and exalts himself above others while using deceptive language. keep your guard!


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## Nevaeh420 (May 23, 2013)

trueg115 said:


> Watch out for the false Prophet in the above comment. He believes he is the Christ.
> 
> Watch out, for many will come in my name claiming I am HE and the time is near. Do not follow them. said Jesus.
> 
> He claims to use scripture but denies God by his works and beliefs and exalts himself above others while using deceptive language. keep your guard!


Lol... Ok!

Watch out!

Boo!

EDIT- What, I cant have an opinion? I'm not the bad guy, dude!

EVERYTHING I have said on Rollitup.org, YOU ALL CAN READ! Read what I have said for yourself!

~PEACE~


----------



## Heisenberg (May 24, 2013)

[video=youtube_share;r6w2M50_Xdk]http://youtu.be/r6w2M50_Xdk[/video]


----------



## tyler.durden (May 24, 2013)

^^ Amazing find, Heis. One of the best short videos I've ever seen, I actually teared up a little at the ending. Thanks for posting...

*You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Heisenberg again.*


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (May 24, 2013)

very nice post Heis


----------



## cannabineer (May 24, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Lol... Ok!
> 
> Watch out!
> 
> ...


Revealed Opinion. Gnarly. cn


----------



## Padawanbater2 (May 24, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> [video=youtube_share;r6w2M50_Xdk]http://youtu.be/r6w2M50_Xdk[/video]


Excellent.


----------



## Zaehet Strife (May 25, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> Revealed Opinion. Gnarly. cn


If there was one person on this planet whom i have never met, and wish i could... it would be you Cannabineer. It would be you, you funny, clever, capricious, cunning man you!


----------



## tyler.durden (May 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> If there was one person on this planet whom i have never met, and wish i could... it would be you Cannabineer. It would be you, you funny, clever, capricious, cunning man you!


Neer should have his own talk show, he'd have an instant following and I'd tune in every week...


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 2, 2013)

I believe that the individuals who choose to believe without evidence besides just recognizing the truth and accepting it will receive a greater reward. Which is what i meant when i said *




Originally Posted by OldGrowth420  
Blessed are those who believe blindly.


Believing in Christ gives me daily rewards and spiritual blessings. I can feel your uncleaness caused by your unbelief, and i can feel God's wrath pouring into your words.. Like a spiritual veneer over your text. I sense the subtle things and read the signs. I would think that as intelligent as you all are, you would learn to see subtle spiritual things and begin to understand the road signs pointing to our Creator and His Son Jesus Christ. As for me and my house, we serve the LORD.

*


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 2, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I believe that the individuals who choose to believe without evidence besides just recognizing the truth and accepting it will receive a greater reward. Which is what i meant when i said
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What rewards? What spiritual blessings? 

How can you tell you're blessed and other people aren't? What reason do you have for believing that an invisible, all-powerful being has placed some sort of magical ward against.... evil? Bad mojo? or Satan? ..... on you? Faith? lol

We see the 'road signs' you're talking about, we just don't attempt to rationalize them into something they're not. 



Christians know that when the Egyptians built gigantic pyramids and mummified the bodies of their pharaohs, that it was a total waste of time -- otherwise Christians would build pyramids.
Christians know that when the Aztecs carved the heart out of a virgin and ate it, that it accomplished nothing -- otherwise Christians would kill virgins.
Christians know that when Muslims face Mecca to pray, that it is pointless -- otherwise Christians would face Mecca when they pray.
Christians know that when Jews keep meat and dairy products separate, that they are wasting their time -- otherwise the cheeseburger would not be an American obsession.

Yet, when Christians look at their own religion, they are for some reason blind. Why? And no, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Christian story is true. Your rational mind knows that with certainty, and so do four billion others.


*THIS;*



A man was sitting in a cave minding his own business.
A very bright flash of light appeared.
A voice spoke out one word: "Read!" The man felt like he was being squeezed to death. This happened several times.
Then the man asked, "What should I read?"
The voice said, "Read in the name of your Lord who created humans from a clinging [zygote]. Read for your Lord is the most generous. He taught people by the pen what they didn't know before."
The man ran home to his wife.
While running home, he saw the huge face of an angel in the sky. The angel told the man that he was to be the messenger of God. The angel also identified himself as Gabriel.
At home that night, the angel appeared to the man in his dreams.
Gabriel appeared to the man over and over again. Sometimes it was in dreams, sometimes during the day as "revelations in his heart," sometimes preceded by a painful ringing in his ears (and then the verses would flow from Gabriel right out of the man), and sometimes Gabriel would appear in the flesh and speak. Scribes wrote down everything the man said.
Then, one night about 11 years after the first encounter with Gabriel, Gabriel appeared to the man with a magical horse. The man got on the horse, and the horse took him to Jerusalem. Then the winged horse took the man up to the seven layers of heaven. The man was able to actually see heaven and meet and talk with people there. Then Gabriel brought the man back to earth.
The man proved that he had actually been to Jerusalem on the winged horse by accurately answering questions about buildings and landmarks there.
The man continued receiving the revelations from Gabriel for 23 years, and then they stopped. All of the revelations were recorded by the scribes in a book which we still have today.

*IS JUST AS CRAZY AS THIS;*



God inseminated a virgin named Mary, in order to bring his son incarnate into our world.
Mary and her fiancé, Joseph, had to travel to Bethlehem to register for the census. There Mary gave birth to the Son of God.
God put a star in the sky to guide people to the baby.
In a dream God told Joseph to take his family to Egypt. Then God stood by and watched as Herod killed thousands and thousands of babies in Israel in an attempt to kill Jesus.
As a man, God's son claimed that he was God incarnate: "I am the way, the truth and the life," he said.
This man performed many miracles. He healed lots of sick people. He turned water into wine. These miracles prove that he is God.
But he was eventually given the death sentence and killed by crucifixion.
His body was placed in a tomb.
But three days later, the tomb was empty.
And the man, alive once again but still with his wounds (so anyone who doubted could see them and touch them), appeared to many people in many places.
Then he ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of God the father almighty, never to be seen again.
Today you can have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus. You can pray to this man and he will answer your prayers. He will cure your diseases, rescue you from emergencies, help you make important business and family decisions, comfort you in times of worry and grief, etc.
This man will also give you eternal life, and if you are good he has a place for you in heaven after you die.
The reason we know all this is because, after the man died, four people named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote accounts of the man's life. Their written attestations are proof of the veracity of this story.

The sooner you get that through your head, the faster you can get out of your delusion.


----------



## trueg115 (Jun 2, 2013)

Until a day comes when the Holy Spirit actually speaks to you, then you have a witness this world cannot provide. That is a true Christian, not walking blindly but knowing full certain with proof Jesus is alive and risen. The only problem is no one else can see him and no one accepts that mans testimony.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 2, 2013)

trueg115 said:


> That is a true Christian, not walking blindly but knowing full certain *with proof Jesus is alive and risen*. *The only problem is no one else can see him and no one accepts that mans testimony.*




Tell Me about it!









EDIT- I'll tell you about it! Its all in the link below.


https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/600992-i-found-like-dozen-videos.html


I'm claiming that I AM the Son of God and who accepts My testimony?


~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Jun 2, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I believe that the individuals who choose to believe without evidence besides just recognizing the truth and accepting it will receive a greater reward. Which is what i meant when i said *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tell you what, dress jesus up funky enough and I just may start listening to your dogma. It'll have to be a really cool outfit, though...

www.jesusdressup.com


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## tyler.durden (Jun 2, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Tell Me about it!
> 
> ~PEACE~


[video=youtube;HVuw1wEuaAQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ[/video]


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## schuylaar (Jun 2, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Reality is based upon experience, and my experience leads me tword God and even proves His existence.


Actually, reality is based on perception..not experience that is why your reality may be different from others'.


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## cannabineer (Jun 2, 2013)

trueg115 said:


> Until a day comes when the Holy Spirit actually speaks to you, then you have a witness this world cannot provide. That is a true Christian, not walking blindly but knowing full certain with proof Jesus is alive and risen. The only problem is no one else can see him and no one accepts that mans testimony.


How do you authenticate the putative contactor as the Holy Spirit? What test protocol?


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## schuylaar (Jun 2, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> [video=youtube;HVuw1wEuaAQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ[/video]


Excellent vid!! Reminds me of Bill Maher's Religulous. 

One comment about faith..I had a good debate going regarding heaven..heaven is the REWARD for having the blind faith if you will..that's why so many Christians believe it. That's why so many cannot be moved because all their life there been told if your faith waivers you won't be getting into heaven. Make sense?

I asked how you can follow a god..accept this god..for which there is no proof and the answer was faith.


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## trueg115 (Jun 2, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> How do you authenticate the putative contactor as the Holy Spirit? What test protocol?


 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist 1 John 4

That is how you tell if its the true Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit can only confess Jesus as coming in the flesh and Satan or any of his spirits cannot profess Jesus as coming in the flesh. As well as in John 
All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14

As you can see, when the Holy Spirit comes, he will confess Jesus and come in his name, just as 1 john 4 mentions.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 2, 2013)

The christian god is a douche bag...


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## cannabineer (Jun 2, 2013)

trueg115 said:


> Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist 1 John 4
> 
> That is how you tell if its the true Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit can only confess Jesus as coming in the flesh and Satan or any of his spirits cannot profess Jesus as coming in the flesh. As well as in John
> All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14
> ...


There is no test protocol there, just scripture dump. cn


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## cannabineer (Jun 2, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> The christian god is a douche bag...


No no no that's the Nozzly Spirit. cn


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 2, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> How do you authenticate the putative contactor as the Holy Spirit? What test protocol?


He doesn't understand what that is, or he wouldn't be making the argument he's making.

Perhaps if I rephrase it for you a bit;

How can you tell you're not crazy? What information have you been provided by god that could not have possibly have been learned or seen somewhere in known reality? 

Delusions and Hallucinations can seem real to the person experiencing them, if you received some sort of new information that could only be gained through communication with god, then you'd have something to corroborate what you saw, was indeed in reality and not your head. 

As it stands now, you're claiming the same thing that millions of people in hospitals and institutions are claiming; that god has spoken to you directly, but you have nothing other than the memory of an experience that could best be explained by some sort of mental phenomenon.


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## cannabineer (Jun 2, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> He doesn't understand what that is, or he wouldn't be making the argument he's making.
> 
> Perhaps if I rephrase it for you a bit;
> 
> ...


I hang my head. I'm speaking in my native tongue, and I need an English interpreter.  cn


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 2, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> I hang my head. I'm speaking in my native tongue, and I need an English interpreter.  cn


We might need one of these to help this guy...


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## GOD HERE (Jun 2, 2013)

I wonder where OldKook420 is. I would've thought he'd be jumping on the chance to post about being a wizard and casting spells before he found Jesus.


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## cannabineer (Jun 2, 2013)

GOD HERE said:


> I wonder where OldKook420 is. I would've thought he'd be jumping on the chance to post about being a wizard and casting spells before he found Jesus.


Speaking of spelling ... cn


----------



## Heisenberg (Jun 3, 2013)

[video=youtube;hoytrHE821o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoytrHE821o[/video]


and

[youtube]0qGTjIcVDAU[/youtube]


----------



## Saerimmner (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Say Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead to spend eternity in heaven
> 
> [SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. -Romans 10:9-10
> 
> ...


View attachment 268379210 characters


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

[video=youtube;4PMxDi6N9KU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PMxDi6N9KU[/video]


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

Lovin you guys


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## schuylaar (Jun 3, 2013)

GOD HERE said:


> The OP is a nutcase.


Um you heard it from the man himself..


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

&#8220;The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us.&#8221; 
&#8213; C.S. Lewis


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## schuylaar (Jun 3, 2013)

OP sig "believe in Jesus and receive eternal life in heaven"..

That is it in a NUTshell..when you get to heaven, let me know how that worked out for you..Ill be waiting to hear back.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

&#8220;Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of - throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself.&#8221; 
&#8213; C.S. Lewis, _ Mere Christianity _


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

schuylaar said:


> OP sig "believe in Jesus and receive eternal life in heaven"..
> 
> That is it in a NUTshell..when you get to heaven, let me know how that worked out for you..Ill be waiting to hear back.


This may help

[video=youtube;ZPZHWbe9dF4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPZHWbe9dF4[/video]


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## cannabineer (Jun 3, 2013)

schuylaar said:


> OP sig "believe in Jesus and receive eternal life in heaven"..
> 
> That is it in a NUTshell..when you get to heaven, let me know how that worked out for you..Ill be waiting to hear back.


There's fine print. They weren't nice[aea] about including it. cn


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## schuylaar (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> This may help
> 
> [video=youtube;ZPZHWbe9dF4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPZHWbe9dF4[/video]


No outsourcing of the delusion..I want YOU to come back and tell me


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

[h=3]Luke 16:19-31[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]The Rich Man and Lazarus[/h][SUP]19 [/SUP]&#8220;There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. [SUP]20 [/SUP]At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores [SUP]21 [/SUP]and longing to eat what fell from the rich man&#8217;s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]&#8220;The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham&#8217;s side. The rich man also died and was buried. [SUP]23 [/SUP]In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. [SUP]24 [/SUP]So he called to him, &#8216;Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.&#8217;
[SUP]25 [/SUP]&#8220;But Abraham replied, &#8216;Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.&#8217;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]&#8220;He answered, &#8216;Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, [SUP]28 [/SUP]for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.&#8217;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]&#8220;Abraham replied, &#8216;They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.&#8217;
[SUP]30 [/SUP]&#8220;&#8216;No, father Abraham,&#8217; he said, &#8216;but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.&#8217;
[SUP]31 [/SUP]&#8220;He said to him, &#8216;If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.&#8217;&#8221;

An ideology that the majority of the nation believes in might be worth studying.
The words of Christ are self evident.

When i go to the graveyard i can feel the spirits sleeping beneath the ground, waiting for the resurrection of the last day
Sometimes i can feel the mark of peoples sins on them, the uncleanness, or the wrath of God on those who don't believe.
I feel my prayers getting answered, and feel the spiritual afflictions of sinning.
To me it's evident and non-negotiable.

There is a life after this physical existence,
And it is the life outlined in the Holy Bible.

I advise you to read the words of Jesus and know what you are condemning before you condemn yourself with your choices.

Only those who hear about Christ and deny Him will go down to hell.
Where there is no rest from the burning and torment,
where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Choose Jesus, choose life in Heaven.


----------



## schuylaar (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *Luke 16:19-31*
> 
> New International Version (NIV)
> 
> ...


Laughing rooster compilation insert here.


----------



## Red1966 (Jun 3, 2013)

"*Only those who hear about Christ and deny Him will go down to hell." So we was all good until you just had to tell us. Now we're all going to hell, just because you had to tell us. Thanks a lot, dick.*


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## trueg115 (Jun 3, 2013)

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3 18

Everyone is condemned in their sinful nature because the sinful nature is condemned now that christ has died. It doesnt matter if youve heard it or not. Those who hear the good news now just have a chance to be saved.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

[video=youtube;6l7A4cQHxuY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l7A4cQHxuY[/video]


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

I personally don't believe people like natives in Brazil will go to hell just because they have sinned and never heard about Jesus


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

God is too loving to do things like that, IMO


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

Red1966 said:


> "*Only those who hear about Christ and deny Him will go down to hell." So we was all good until you just had to tell us. Now we're all going to hell, just because you had to tell us. Thanks a lot, dick.*


I seriously doubt there is anyone that is going to read these threads that hasn't heard about Christianity
It's your Own choices that decide whether you end up in hell or heaven.


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## Saerimmner (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *Luke 16:19-31*
> 
> New International Version (NIV)
> 
> ...


10 characters


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

*Will people who never hear of Jesus go to hell?*

This is one of the more vexing questions that Christians encounter (or ask themselves): if Jesus is the only way through which we&#8217;re made right with God, what does that mean for people who never hear about him? It&#8217;s one thing to hear the Gospel and choose to reject it; but what about somebody who never had a chance to hear, let alone reject, the message of Jesus?
Christians have taken many different approaches to this question. I&#8217;ll highlight responses from two different online ministries below. Do you agree with either (or both) of them?
*Uplook Ministries* answers the question by arguing that God works in people&#8217;s hearts in many more ways than just through overt preaching of the Gospel. They conclude:God has promised us that, if we seek Him with all our hearts, we will find Him (Jeremiah 29:13). He is not eager for anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9). &#8220;For there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved&#8221; (Romans 10:12-13). We do not know how God is dealing with people in lands yet unreached by the gospel, but from Scripture we can see that He will never condemn anyone unjustly, but will be faithful to reveal Himself to anyone who looks for His salvation.
We also know that John saw in heaven &#8220;&#8230;a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands and crying out with a loud voice, saying, &#8216;Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!&#8217;&#8221; (Revelation 7:9-10). Not only every nation but every tribe will be represented in heaven.
Notice that they all sing the same song. We are not saying that sincere Muslims or Hindus, trusting in their religion, will make it to heaven. There is only one Saviour, and everyone in heaven will be there through the salvation provided by God&#8217;s Lamb, the Lord Jesus.​Read the full answer at Uplook Ministries.
The *Faith Facts* ministry answers the question:&#8230;the Bible also teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2)! And it implies that whoever seeks after God earnestly will find him (Deuteronomy 4:29; Psalm 86:5; Proverbs 8:17; Jeremiah 29:13; Matthew 7:7-. God is fair as well as just. We are confident, for example,Â that the Old Testament patriarchs who lived by faith before Jesus&#8217; earthly ministry, are in heaven. So certainly some people have gotten to heaven without knowing Jesus in the personal way that the New Testament speaks of. Ultimately only God can judge as only He knows the individual&#8217;s heart. We hold out hope that for those who have not heard but have not rejected God, those have been misinformed, or those who are unable to understand (children, mentally ill, etc) may be pardoned by a just God.
Certainly, the Bible does not teach &#8220;universalism.&#8221; Universalism is the idea that everyone gets to heaven.
The Bible clearly teaches that the only _certain_ way to heaven is through Jesus (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). We are confident that God will not hold anyone accountable for any knowledge he did not receive. At the same time, the Bible emphatically states that Christ is the only sure way to salvation. Anyone who has heard of the saving grace of Jesus, and _rejects_ it, would be thumbing his nose at God (John 3:36).

from: http://www.gospel.com/blog/index.php/2009/11/19/will-people-who-never-hear-of-jesus-go-to-hell/
​


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

[h=1]Does God send good people to hell if they've never heard of Jesus?[/h]
[video=youtube;jWk2oTe6uJ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWk2oTe6uJ8[/video]


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## cannabineer (Jun 3, 2013)

Every religion, especially an Abrahamic one, needs a Book of Second Opinions. cn


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> &#8220;Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of - throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself.&#8221;
> &#8213; C.S. Lewis, _ Mere Christianity _


I think hes building you a nut house,you need one big enough for that amount of crazy....


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## tyler.durden (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *I seriously doubt there is anyone that is going to read these threads that hasn't heard about Christianity*
> It's your Own choices that decide whether you end up in hell or heaven.


This was my point to you previously, you're not exposing anyone to anything that they don't already know. So why keep spamming scripture? It's masturbation. It's simply you pulling your spiritual pud to the point of your christgasm, and blowing your hot, sliimy scripture all over the screen. You then wish us to look at it; 'Hey, Guys! Check out my HUGE load of frothy scripture, FUCK YEAH!' That's gross, dude. We don't wish to see it, and those that want to see your load have your holy porn book, so why keep spooging? It's all for the glory of your own ego, don't pretend it isn't...


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 3, 2013)




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## schuylaar (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I personally don't believe people like natives in Brazil will go to hell just because they have sinned and never heard about Jesus


So are you saying there is some sort of entitlement program? Different rules for different cultures..and why does the bible not cover this?


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 3, 2013)

schuylaar said:


> So are you saying there is some sort of entitlement program? Different rules for different cultures..and why does the bible not cover this?


For a supposed book that was written by the hand of god, it only mentions things within a 500 mile radius of where all the dummies who wrote it were born... lol 

There is this *GAPING HOLE* of useful knowledge in the bible. It literally has absolutely ZERO content that couldn't have been written by some goat herder in a clay hut. There is zero, and I mean ZERO, divine knowledge in it. 

This guy;







could write the bible and put as much 'holy knowledge' into is as the bible contains. Hell, this guy probably has better morals than the people in the bible because he was born within the last 1800 years. Every single person who is reading this is vastly morally superior to the god of the bible.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

The Holy Bible is an excellent guidebook for living, guiding the user into human perfection and union with the Creator.
The words of Jesus are timeless wisdom, showing the nature of divine compassion.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

I know because i read it almost daily. It's wisdom has spared me from many hardships.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 3, 2013)

To Mr.Strife

*God&#8217;s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity*

[SUP]18 [/SUP]The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world God&#8217;s invisible qualities&#8212;his eternal power and divine nature&#8212;have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools [SUP]23 [/SUP]and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. [SUP]25 [/SUP]They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator&#8212;who is forever praised. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. [SUP]27 [/SUP]In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. [SUP]29 [/SUP]They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, [SUP]30 [/SUP]slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; [SUP]31 [/SUP]they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Although they know God&#8217;s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> The Holy Bible is an excellent guidebook for living, guiding the user into human perfection and union with the Creator.
> The words of Jesus are timeless wisdom, showing the nature of divine compassion.


Timeless wisdom? The good bits are plagiarized from other religions for the most part.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> To Mr.Strife
> 
> *God&#8217;s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity*
> 
> ...



*The murdering of children:*
Leviticus 20:9 _&#8220;For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.&#8221;_

Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.

Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance _&#8220;0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.&#8221;_

2 Kings 6:28-29 _&#8220;And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.&#8221;_

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 _&#8220;If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.&#8221;_

Judges 19:24-29 _&#8220;Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man&#8217;s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.&#8221;_ To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.

Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh&#8217;s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler&#8217;s forced action?

Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.

2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone &#8220;bald head&#8221; is far from being worthy of death.

Leviticus 26:30 _&#8220;And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.&#8221;_

1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God&#8217;s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.

I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.

Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will &#8220;thrust you through,&#8221; smash your children &#8220;to pieces&#8221; before your eyes, and rape your wife.

Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.

Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.

Lamentations 2:20-22 God gets angry and mercilessly torments and kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children.


Jesus lying about prayer;

*1) *_And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."_ (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

*2) *_ Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened._ (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

*3) *_Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst._ (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

*4) *_ Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours._ (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)

*5) *_ And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened._ (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)

*6) *_And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it._ (John 14:13-14 NAB)

*7) *_If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. _(John 15:7 NAB)

*8 ) *_It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you._ (John 15:16 NAB)

*9) *_ On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. _(John 16:23-24 NAB)

*10) *_Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. _ (James 5:14-15 ASV)

Some more of Jesus 'wisdom' - If your slaves don't know they've done something wrong, you should only beat them a little bit....

_The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
_


Oldgrowth, the bible is the most potent tool in the deconversion of people. You want to spout your bullshit scripture? There's more in the bible to hurt your cause, then help it.

I really love the part where Jesus says you can pray for a mountain to move and it'll happen... that was a real chuckle.


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## tyler.durden (Jun 3, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> *The murdering of children:*
> Leviticus 20:9 _&#8220;For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.&#8221;_
> 
> Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.
> ...


Exactly, BB. I've pointed out to OG and Neveah that their mentality and scripture spamming are HURTING their quest to influence people. They still don't realize that we already know what they know as we've been exposed to it extensively, but they have know idea of what we know because they absolutely will not expose themselves to anything that may challenge their fragile faith. It is apparent that OG does not even read or contemplate most of what other posters have to say, and any response given is feeble scripture because he can't debate his BS position with his own words. I imagine that the many readers of these threads that were contemplating going the xian route will see their words and desperate mentality, read our posts, then decide to steer the fuck away from that option; 'Wow! Reading scripture can fuck one up to that degree? That was a close one....'


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## cannabineer (Jun 3, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> This was my point to you previously, you're not exposing anyone to anything that they don't already know. So why keep spamming scripture? It's masturbation. It's simply you pulling your spiritual pud to the point of your christgasm, and blowing your hot, sliimy scripture all over the screen. You then wish us to look at it; 'Hey, Guys! Check out my HUGE load of frothy scripture, FUCK YEAH!' That's gross, dude. We don't wish to see it, and those that want to see your load have your holy porn book, so why keep spooging? It's all for the glory of your own ego, don't pretend it isn't...


*Lorgasm ... cn


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## tyler.durden (Jun 3, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> *Lorgasm ... cn


I much prefer your term, let's try to spread your new meme


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## brotherjericho (Jun 3, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> There was so much spam and hate in my other thread so i decided it would be beneficial to those seeking Truth about God to open this one. Please keep this thread clean and polite. Thank you.


I know that a marijuana forum is the first place to look when seeking truth about god!


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 4, 2013)




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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 9, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> *The murdering of children:*
> Leviticus 20:9 _&#8220;For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.&#8221;_
> 
> Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.
> ...




Some of this is an outright lie such as the woute about Judges 11:30-40 which reads [SUP]30 [/SUP]And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: &#8220;If you give the Ammonites into my hands, [SUP]31 [/SUP]whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord&#8217;s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.&#8221; [SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. [SUP]33 [/SUP]He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. [SUP]35 [/SUP]When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, &#8220;Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.&#8221;
[SUP]36 [/SUP]&#8220;My father,&#8221; she replied, &#8220;you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But grant me this one request,&#8221; she said. &#8220;Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.&#8221;
[SUP]38 [/SUP]&#8220;You may go,&#8221; he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. [SUP]39 [/SUP]After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
From this comes the Israelite tradition [SUP]40 [/SUP]that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
*
First of all the LORD did not command Jephthah to do anything, and no one was burnt alive.*

It is extremely important to God that we honor our father and mother and the Law was extreme before Christ came and fullfilled the Law. We no longer have to abide by any old testament rules including the ten commandments, so your point is void of any merit.
Back when times were wild, and people were more uncivilized it was important to pose harsh punishment for sinful conduct to keep people form doing these things.

They had to impose these strict rules just to keep order among the civilization from generation to generation.
They didn't have the Holy Spirit in them helping them to lead moral orderly lives so it was necessary to impose these strict laws to keep God's Children from straying from God's commandments.
For instance, a bad rebellious group could cause an entire people to be lead astray away from God, in order to keep the Law and ways and knowledge of God through the generations it was necessary to impose these strict laws.

God killed all of the first born of Egypt because the LORD had imposed many plagues upon the Egyptian and Pharaoh still refused to let the Hebrews go. There was simply no other way to sway Pharaoh's opinion.

I will answer more later.


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## thepenofareadywriter (Jun 9, 2013)

Exo 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.


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## trueg115 (Jun 9, 2013)

But Pharaoh again became stubborn and refused to let the people go. Exodus 8 32

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honored upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD. Exodus 14

As you can see, both hardened pharaohs heart. God chose Pharaoh for that position because Pharaoh was as stiubborn and conceited as he was. Therefore, for the Lords purpose, to exalt his name, he placed Pharaoh there and Pharaoh chose to see the signs and chose to submit not to God but his own power. God has foreknowledge therefor he knew Pharaoh was the man to use for his glory. Pharaoh was given many chances but for the Lord purpose to prevail and because Pharaoh would never have accepted, he destroyed him and all his household, as a sign that will come upon the Lords enemies when he makes his return. That destruction will be far worse. This example serves as what is coming upon the unbelievers. But mark my words, before this day comes, many signs and wonders wil be shown to the people of this world and even then they will not accept Christ.

He WILL prove himself through the church.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 10, 2013)

Yep........


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 10, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Some of this is an outright lie such as the woute about Judges 11:30-40 which reads [SUP]30 [/SUP]And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: &#8220;If you give the Ammonites into my hands, [SUP]31 [/SUP]whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord&#8217;s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.&#8221; [SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. [SUP]33 [/SUP]He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
> [SUP]34 [/SUP]When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. [SUP]35 [/SUP]When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, &#8220;Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.&#8221;
> [SUP]36 [/SUP]&#8220;My father,&#8221; she replied, &#8220;you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But grant me this one request,&#8221; she said. &#8220;Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.&#8221;
> [SUP]38 [/SUP]&#8220;You may go,&#8221; he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. [SUP]39 [/SUP]After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
> ...


And.... no.

*Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
*
Jesus didn't come to destroy the old laws, 10 commandments, etc. he came to see them through.


*10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.**10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.**10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.**10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.*

More great "jesus stuff". He's not here to bring peace, guy came with a sword.







Jesus? is that you?


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 10, 2013)

Lets see what Mark has to say;

*6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

*Accept jesus, or he will fuck you up worse than his big pappa did to Sodom and Gommorrha.

*5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

*Jesus heals a crippled beggar and says that being cripppled was caused by sin. 

*ROMANS*

*1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;**1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,**1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,**1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:**1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.*

So, gossips, gays, boasters, and disobedient children are worthy of death. How are you still alive Oldgrowth? Didn't you ever disobey your parents?


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## trueg115 (Jun 10, 2013)

He is still alive because the Lord is loving to all he has made and kind to all of his creation. He sends rain on the just and the unjust. Jesus did not come to save the righteous but rather sinners, or the sick. He came to make the blind see and those who "see" become blind. 

And yes, all those things you listed are worthy of eternal punishment because of our sin with our God. But through Jesus Christs atonement on the cross, we are forgiven and can receive the Holy Spirit and be changed forever by being born again. You can too through faith in Jesus blood. 

All men are sinners, we are born in sin, whether we follow a religion or not is not what makes us clean. Jesus Christs death and resurrection on the cross is what makes our hearts clean so we can be good through faith in his blood. We cannot be peaceful without Christ, for we are enemies of God and enemies to one another. It matters not whether we profess any religion or congregation or what not, or if you are an atheist. All that matters is belief upon the Lord Jesus Christ and following his teachings and His word so that we may come to know him to have eternal life. The reason why I say we are enemies of God and of men, is that because of our sinful natures, our heart is the problem, for out of it comes all evil. Without Jesus Christs promise of the Holy Spirit, we cannot get out of our sin but through Jesus we can be born again and be given a new heart. 

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be made known to them is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible properties - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-19


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## skunkd0c (Jun 10, 2013)

Brainwashed folk may develop MPS multiple personality syndrome 
very sad business if you ask me


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## Heisenberg (Jun 11, 2013)

Religion is fond of stealing the sense of wonder we get from some things in life and claiming as its own. The sense of awe we feel looking into the night sky. The sense of astonishment felt when we realize the enormous sophistication of nature. Even the sense of "oneness" we feel from transcendent experiences. Some people feel these things when listening to beautiful music, and religion is there to cash in on this as well.

[video=youtube_share;pghCq_Vnze0]http://youtu.be/pghCq_Vnze0[/video]


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## tyler.durden (Jun 11, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Religion is fond of stealing the sense of wonder we get from some things in life and claiming as its own. The sense of awe we feel looking into the night sky. The sense of astonishment felt when we realize the enormous sophistication of nature. Even the sense of "oneness" we feel from transcendent experiences. Some people feel these things when listening to beautiful music, and religion is there to cash in on this as well.


That's good insight, Heis. I've read that the catholic church was very shrewd in this regard, commissioning works from the greatest known artists of the time (i.e. the genius music of Handel and Bach, the amazing sculpture and graphic art from Da Vinci, Michelangelo, etc.). The idea was to pull a non-sequitur ruse on people: folks come to the church and hear this amazing music and witness this amazing art work. They can readily sense the very real quality of these creations and figure that the church's teachings must be of the same quality. Brilliant...


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

trueg115 said:


> He is still alive because the Lord is loving to all he has made and kind to all of his creation. He sends rain on the just and the unjust. Jesus did not come to save the righteous but rather sinners, or the sick. He came to make the blind see and those who "see" become blind.
> 
> And yes, all those things you listed are worthy of eternal punishment because of our sin with our God. But through Jesus Christs atonement on the cross, we are forgiven and can receive the Holy Spirit and be changed forever by being born again. You can too through faith in Jesus blood.
> 
> ...


Being born handicapped does not mean god is angry at you for some sin you haven't even committed. 

God created us as his enemies? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. 

God's power and divine nature have never been seen. Period. Being powerful assumes you are capable of doing _somthing, _and to this day, no one has ever seen a real miracle happen. 

God has never brought someone back from the dead, or grown back a limb. If god's power is limited to healing things that might have healed on their own, why refer to him as god? Clearly he doesn't possess any powers or abilities.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 11, 2013)

But *Trueg*, isn't there a kinder gentler way for a supreme being to go about it? It seems like his plan for redemption is rather inefficient and absurd. I understand the doctrine of "there had to be a sacrifice in order to cover the sins of the world and jesus was the ultimate (in the literal sense) sacrifice", but why would a loving caring god create a system of scapegoating, death and suffering? Why not leave the innocents out of it and allow us as humans to do something more simple to atone for our sins? He certainly doesn't make things very easy for us; I wanted to know him and his will and searched for 17 years; a search so sincere and dedicated that I neglected everything else in my life. I still never found him. 

You'll say he killed his own son because he loved us so much... couldn't he have done it another way; He IS God afterall. 
If he can leave me, Mother Teresa, and others hanging like that when we are searching, calling out for him to make his presence known in our lives.
If he can commit genocide and all the other atrocities that Christians often rationalize or are morally numb to, then he is not someone I'd want to worship anyway. If he does exist, when I get there I will ask him why he wouldn't help me out when I was trying to know him and learn his will; a just god indeed; send me to burn for all eternity when I was trying, you're the one that gave me a rational brain. 

*Beef made me think of this*. I did find one thing that was interesting when I was preparing for seminary. I believe it is in John 9, I will have to look up the verse. I've pretty much wiped all my Bible knowledge from my brain, so forgive me if I don't get the story exactly right. It's regarding reincarnation and karma. Jesus and his disciples were walking down the street and pass a man blind deaf from birth, lame on the side of the street. One of the disciples asks, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him." Now this might be kind of a reach, but many people believe the disciples understood "doctrine" better than we ever could. The disciple asked was it his sins that he should be born blind? as in sins BEFORE he was born.
All other times, through out the gospels, that a disciple said something ridiculous, Jesus corrected him. If you notice, he did not correct him here which leads me to think that there MAY BE something before we were born into this life, at least according to the Bible.

Now one of the questions I had growing up was "why does Crystal have cerebral palsy and all of us were born just fine?" The answers I always got was similar to the one Jesus gave, "it's all part of his plan", "We will just have to ask him when we meet him", and so on. If someone had said, well it was because of the sins she had commited before she was born, then it might have seemed more just and made a little more sense. 

*And to make a comment on Heis's post*, I think that is why so many people are drawn to Catholocism, it has strict rituals (which we like as humans) and fantastic architecture which gives a sense of authority to it all, it is all so massive and spectacular which brings a feeling of awe that is often mistaken for the spirit, it brings out emotion with all the wine, incense, candles, chants, secret underwear and scapulars, ancient languages that have humans have been programmed to associate with the divine. Ever watch a Benny Hinn concert? Listen to the music and his speech pattern... it's pure hypnotism; 100%.

See Stendhal Syndrome


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## tyler.durden (Jun 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Being born handicapped does not mean god is angry at you for some sin you haven't even committed.
> 
> God created us as his enemies? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
> 
> ...


Oh, no! I sense of huge load of hot, frothy scripture comin' soon as a reply. Get your umbrellas ready if you don't want to get any on you, it's gonna be a lot...


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Oh, no! I sense of huge load of hot, frothy scripture comin' soon as a reply. Get your umbrellas ready if you don't want to get any on you, it's gonna be a lot...


Nah bro - I'll save him the trouble of responding.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/ - There, that covers the scripture portion. Now for the rambling;

Hurble burble bible. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus..... holy spirit, Soddom and Gomorrah, blah, blah, Jesus. You're going to hell. God kills the wicked, blah blah sinners. 

God loves you.


How'd I do?


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## retrofuzz (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm going to hell apparently,but i guess that's where all the good shits gna happen


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## cannabineer (Jun 11, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Oh, no! I sense of huge load of hot, frothy scripture comin' soon as a reply. Get your umbrellas ready if you don't want to get any on you, it's gonna be a lot...


Just a "second" I'm "coming" ... cn

Book of BlowJob 13:69


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 11, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> Just a "second" I'm "coming" ... cn<br>
> Book of BlowJob 13:69


Oh, bear! 

[video=youtube_share;-qcb060RGvY]http://youtu.be/-qcb060RGvY[/video]


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## schuylaar (Jun 12, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Nah bro - I'll save him the trouble of responding.
> 
> http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/ - There, that covers the scripture portion. Now for the rambling;
> 
> ...


Um, cleaning morning coffee off of screen?????....ROFL!!!!


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## Moldy (Jun 12, 2013)

Don't waste your time waiting for heaven, it's all around you now. This is it.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 13, 2013)

Here is an interesting article about how "spiritual" people are more likely to commit crimes than atheists.

http://socialreader.com/me/content/U7DL4?chid=75450&utm_source=editorial&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=srfan


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## schuylaar (Jun 13, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Here is an interesting article about how "spiritual" people are more likely to commit crimes than atheists.
> 
> http://socialreader.com/me/content/U7DL4?chid=75450&utm_source=editorial&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=srfan


And why do you think that is?..i've noticed this long ago..it's always the bible beater/GOP type/church going delusional..that commits the MOST heinous crimes.

Perhaps Old Growth can explain this to us "sinners"..um and NO scripture please..your own words..do you dare?


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 13, 2013)

schuylaar said:


> And why do you think that is?..i've noticed this long ago..it's always the bible beater/GOP type/church going delusional..that commits the MOST heinous crimes.
> 
> Perhaps Old Growth can explain this to us "sinners"..um and NO scripture please..your own words..do you dare?


Religious people think god gives them this;







So, some justify behaving like a fucking heathen because they 'know' they can just ask for forgiveness and get a pass. I mean, who cares what people on earth think of you? Homicidal maniac? Pedophile? Rapist? No problem! God loves all of his children, as long as they repent! It's what god thinks of you that counts; and as long as you ask for forgiveness you can do whatever the fuck you want!


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 13, 2013)

schuylaar said:


> And why do you think that is?..i've noticed this long ago..it's always the bible beater/GOP type/church going delusional..that commits the MOST heinous crimes.
> 
> Perhaps Old Growth can explain this to us "sinners"..um and NO scripture please..your own words..do you dare?


I wasn't even thinking of "heinous crimes" but even the most petty. Heinous crimes are too banal and cliché; they've been discussed and dragged around enough already.

I have noticed much of an "end justifies the means" type of mentality in most religious people. I don't know if this is the root of it, but it's a good place to start looking.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jun 13, 2013)

Moldy said:


> Don't waste your time waiting for heaven, it's all around you now. This is it.


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## schuylaar (Jun 13, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> I wasn't even thinking of "heinous crimes" but even the most petty. Heinous crimes are too banal and cliché; they've been discussed and dragged around enough already.
> 
> I have noticed much of an "end justifies the means" type of mentality in most religious people. I don't know if this is the root of it, but it's a good place to start looking.


End justifies the means..for example? Pretty sad when a group of religious zealots can be identified through acts of "heinous crimes" and its like "pffffft, we already know that"!!!


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## tyler.durden (Jun 13, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Religious people think god gives them this;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hate those fuckin' pegophiles! My pegs are so scared these days that some of them won't come out of hiding and I can't play my game


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## Kervork (Jun 13, 2013)

Wow... such a primative religion christianity is. Almost like it was invented in the dark ages. 

My religion is far better. God loves me because I am. I need no redemption. I break none of gods laws because my god made laws which cannot be broken.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jun 15, 2013)

i believe i have sinned and a god is punishing me , how do i get into heaven and how do i make things right between my daughter an god 
?


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 17, 2013)

*ThE sAtivA higH*
To be made right with God simply read this verse and do as it commands, Here is a prayer line you can call to confess with your mouth that you believe in Jesus 1-888-731-1000.

[h=3]Romans 10:9-10[/h]New American Standard Bible (NASB)

[SUP]9 [/SUP][SUP][a][/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth Jesus _as_ Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; [SUP]10 [/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, [SUP][b][/SUP]resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, [SUP][c][/SUP]resulting in salvation.


My back is hurting pretty bad so i'm not going to attempt to respond to all of these responses at this time.

*To BeefBisquit

*There are aspects of many things that i do not necessarily like, or agree with.. But in the end i must accept them and choose to do what is right and live my life anyway.
The same is true with God and His Word. Not everything He says makes me feel warm and fuzzy, but i do what He says because He is God and He gave me everything and is my one true Judge.
The Bible says fear God, and I can tell you from personal experience and God's punishments and afflictions in my own life that there is good reason for that. But I know God does this to keep me in line, because He cares for me.

My back is just killing me, i will try to come back asap to give better responses to all of this.
I ask that you would keep this thread clean, some of these posts are really offensive.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2013)

Belief isn't a conscious choice, how do you explain that?

You seem to think one simply chooses to believe or not to believe, those that do get saved, those that don't be damned. Except, I never _chose__ not to_ believe. It's simply a result of the consequences of the experiences I've had in my life and the knowledge I've gained. To fault me for that would be no different than for being right handed, white skinned or green eyed.. This is something I have no control over, no say whatsoever. The irony is, the god religious people claim to believe in would never hold someone at fault for a simple result of circumstances. It wouldn't be capable of it, let alone be capable of the horrible alternative to blind acceptance [Hell].. These people are taught a different kind of reality, in which you certainly can be sent to hell by a just and righteous god, _even though _none of that bullshit makes any sense when you apply the strict rules of logic that dictate the reality we occupy. The world they live in doesn't hinge on the rules of reality. It's tough to put yourself in that kind of mindframe..


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 17, 2013)

All you need to do is try your best to believe. Choose to believe the way you choose to love someone. Belief isn't just a feeling, it's a choice.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 17, 2013)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i believe i have sinned and a god is punishing me , how do i get into heaven and how do i make things right between my daughter an god
> ?


The only way things can be made right between your daughter and God is for her to choose to believe in Christ. Read the Gospel of John with her and educate her in the truth of Christ, take her to church and take her to Sunday school where she can get a good solid foundation in Christ. Then you wont have to worry about where she will end up. 

Your punishment may not end right away, be patient, and do your best to live right and forsake your sins. God is pruning you so that you will live a righteous life and produce fruit for Him.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 17, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Religious people think god gives them this;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not just about asking for forgiveness, it's about turning from your sins.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 17, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> All you need to do is try your best to believe. Choose to believe the way you choose to love someone. Belief isn't just a feeling, it's a choice.


I'm afraid you don't seem to understand.. 

There is no way to "try your best to believe".. you simply do or don't, there is no try. 

Also, you do not "choose" to love someone. Go ahead, try right now, can you love me? If you can, you're confused about what love is, because I can assure you, you can't. If love was a choice, there would be a hell of a lot less heartache than there is.. 

Belief is in no way a choice, you view the evidence of said claim, and using your own knowledge and experience accept it or reject it, there is no conscious choice in the matter at any time. It either convinces you or it doesn't. In the exact same way you either hear sound or you don't, see light or you don't, feel heat or cold or you don't.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 17, 2013)

schuylaar said:


> And why do you think that is?..i've noticed this long ago..it's always the bible beater/GOP type/church going delusional..that commits the MOST heinous crimes.
> 
> Perhaps Old Growth can explain this to us "sinners"..um and NO scripture please..your own words..do you dare?


Show me the data, then we'll talk.

View attachment 2702380


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## tyler.durden (Jun 17, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *ThE sAtivA higH*
> To be made right with God simply read this verse and do as it commands, Here is a prayer line you can call to confess with your mouth that you believe in Jesus 1-888-731-1000.


Have your credit card ready, there may be a soft donation pitch after they 'save' you...


> *My back is hurting pretty bad so i'm not going to attempt to respond to all of these responses at this time.*
> 
> *To BeefBisquit
> 
> ...


Can't you simply pray the pain away? If not, is the pain keeping you on the right path? If your prayer is ineffective on your own, remember the number above, 1-888-731-1000.

 "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22) 

 "Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24) 
 "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." (John 14:13-14) 

 "And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you." (John 16:23) 



> I ask that you would keep this thread clean, *some of these posts are really offensive.*


On a public forum? Get outta here...


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 17, 2013)

Not all prayers are God's will. I got drunk at the bar when i was underage, stepped onto the roof of a storm shelter, it opened up.. I fell in. Hit my back on a metal lip, now my pain reminds me not to do stupid stuff. I deserve it. 

My prayers seemed to have helped my back pain immensely.
They certainly have helped repair my mind.


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## tyler.durden (Jun 17, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Not all prayers are God's will.


No, only the one's that are in his name. So says the scripture I posted. SCRIPTURE! Can't argue with that, and if we can, you're in trouble...



> I got drunk at the bar when i was underage, stepped onto the roof of a storm shelter, it opened up.. I fell in. Hit my back on a metal lip, now my pain reminds me not to do stupid stuff. I deserve it.


Sorry to hear about that. You were just being a kid, kid's do stupid things (god made them that way, no?). I don't think you deserve that, but deserve has got nothing to do with it....



> My prayers seemed to have helped my back pain immensely. *They certainly have helped repair my mind. *


I doubt that's true...


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## schuylaar (Jun 17, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Show me the data, then we'll talk.
> 
> View attachment 2702380


OG it's called experience..

I grew up in a VERY Catholic family, church on Wednesday AND Saturday AND Sunday..huge family get together along with which ever Father precided over Mass that Sunday..we ALL went to parochial school through high school..

They are the most ugly, hippocrital, twisted and downright sick people you'll ever come across.


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## mindphuk (Jun 17, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Re-iterating.


The prophecy in the Harry Potter also came true. This has already been explained to you last time you splooged this shit on the forums. Pay attention this time, I'll make it easier for you to read.

*You cannot use the bible to prove the bible. *


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 17, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> The prophecy in the Harry Potter also came true. This has already been explained to you last time you splooged this shit on the forums. Pay attention this time, I'll make it easier for you to read.
> 
> *You cannot use the bible to prove the bible. *



He needs pictures, me thinks....


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 22, 2013)

Here's what you need to understand. When you've seen what I've seen, and heard what I've heard, you can't be quiet about it. If you just knew who i was, how much filth I've been in, and if you had any idea what God has forgiven me of, and how much he's transformed me from an angry, bitter, unfaithful, lying person into, by His grace only, a man of God, then you'd realize that I have to talk about this God, this Jesus, this love that has radically changed my life.

To ask me to remain silent about the most important part of my life- Why, you might as well ask the sun to stop shining, the rain to stop falling or the flowers to stop blooming. As long as there is breath in my body, nothing will stop me from talking about the Jesus who saved me and made me new.

-Craig Groeshchel


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 22, 2013)

[h=3]Romans 10:9[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jun 22, 2013)

[h=3]Psalm 46:1[/h]King James Version (KJV)

46 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.


[h=3]1 John 1[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]The Incarnation of the Word of Life[/h]1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched&#8212;this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. [SUP]3 [/SUP]We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. [SUP]4 [/SUP]We write this to make our[SUP][a][/SUP] joy complete.
[h=3]Light and Darkness, Sin and Forgiveness[/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[SUP][b][/SUP] sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.




Get your free bible app here http://www.bible.com/mobile
Or go to http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=NIV


Love and Light to you friend


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *Romans 10:9*
> 
> New King James Version (NKJV)
> 
> [SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.





OldGrowth420 said:


> *Psalm 46:1*
> 
> King James Version (KJV)
> 
> ...


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## A Bloke Down The Pub (Jun 22, 2013)

Such a shame He doesn't actually exist, eh.


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## silasraven (Jun 22, 2013)

amen, but you dont need a bible to follow christ. i second the motion of forgivness and transformation, never in my wildest dreams did i think i would be getting his grace and glory like i have.


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## dbkick (Jun 22, 2013)

Just another thug thats turned to jesus/god in time of despair, its funny how in your mind you've been forgiven for all these things you have claimed to do. Everyone is forgiven as long they believe . Now copy and paste scriptures all you want. You arent buying your way into an imaginary place.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 22, 2013)

DEAR FRIEND,


Welcome to the wonderful world of religion!


These are exciting times in holinesspoliticians are crusading, nations
are invading, and science is fading. With these changes come religious
opportunities the likes of which haven't been seen since the
Reformation... or at least since the persecuted masses first huddled together
and shipped off to that great democratic revival meeting we call
the United States of America. With this in mind, the Church of the 
Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) invites you to learn a little more about us. 
We'd like to tell you all about our Heaven, which features a Stripper Factory and a giant Beer
Volcano. We'd love to see you dressed in His chosen garb: full Pirate regalia.
We want you to enjoy Fridays as His chosen holiday. But first you
need to know a little more about us.


What do we stand for?

 All that is good.


What are we against?
 All that isn't good.


Sounds sweet, right? Of course it's not that simple, and that's why
we need a book. (Doesn't every religion have a book?) The Jews have the
Bible (The Old Testicle), the Christians have ditto (The New Testicle),
the Muslims have the Q-tip or whatever, the Jains have Fun with Dick
and Jain, the Sufis have Sufis Up!, the Buddhists have the Bananapada,
the Hindus have Ten Little Indians, the Wiccans have The Witches of
Eastwick, and so on. If this was a manifesto, a pamphlet, a flyer, an article, 
or some nut preaching from a street corner, you, fair reader,
might perceive FSMism to be just another two-bit cult. But we're not a
cult (we're more like a boutique religion at this point), and this is a
book that will stand up to any of the othersat least in terms of strict
plausibility if not literary finesse and retributive beheadings and disembowelments.


The more you read about us the more you're going to be
persuaded that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the true Creator and
that FSMism just might be the Best. Religion. Ever.


Go ahead. Try us for thirty days. If you don't like us, your old religion
will most likely take you back. 

Unless it's the Jains, whose feelings are easily hurt.


RAmen.


BOBBY HENDERSON
Prophet


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 22, 2013)

Youre right OG,nothing will stop you from preaching.You go right ahead and preach on, those who are critical thinkers and people of sound reasoning will forgo your drivel.You can crusade until the imaginary pearly white gates are opening for you,it still means nothing, just as it yields nothing.What would happen if you actualy start questioning your beliefs?OG,why do you persist here of all places when you already know that we arent going to buy into what you think is correct and true in life?You see it time after time again,you post scripture,some of us read the post and show you how it is full of inconsistency everytime,yet you still ignore it.You are by definition insane,,you repeat a process over and over getting the same results,yet expect a different outcome?........sigh your terribly hopeless.


----------



## Nevaeh420 (Jun 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *Romans 10:9*
> 
> New King James Version (NKJV)
> 
> [SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.


OldGrowth, IMO there is nothing wrong with believing in Jesus, I used to. But when you start telling people that they are going to hell for their unbelief than you start to piss the athiests and agnostics off. You should try and be more welcoming and not condemning. 

OldGrowth, I actually believe that I am Christ, but its not all I talk about. And I personally dont believe in hell, as described in the Bible, but I do believe in the Kingdom of God and I want us all to go to the Kingdom. 

You can read about My rant about why I believe I am Christ in the link below. 

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/600992-i-found-like-dozen-videos.html


You can read about My rant about why I believe I am Christ in the link above. 

But if you want to represent Christ than dont do Him a disservice. Show people the love of Christ by your deeds and the love you show towards them.

EDIT- I know you want to live your life for Jesus but I bet Jesus would want you to live for yourself first, and than keep Him close to your heart. 




A Bloke Down The Pub said:


> Such a shame He doesn't actually exist, eh.


I beleive that I am Christ, and I exist.

Its a shame people dont believe it though, eh?

~PEACE~


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jun 22, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> OldGrowth, IMO there is nothing wrong with believing in Jesus, I used to. But when you start telling people that they are going to hell for their unbelief than you start to piss the athiests and agnostics off. You should try and be more welcoming and not condemning.
> 
> OldGrowth, I actually believe that I am Christ, but its not all I talk about. And I personally dont believe in hell, as described in the Bible, but I do believe in the Kingdom of God and I want us all to go to the Kingdom.
> 
> ...


----------



## joe macclennan (Jun 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Here's what you need to understand. When you've seen what I've seen, and heard what I've heard, you can't be quiet about it. l



So let me get this straight. You actually believe you have seen and heard god personally? You should really explain what kind of drugs you are on.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jun 22, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Here's what you need to understand. When you've seen what I've seen, and heard what I've heard, you can't be quiet about it. If you just knew who i was, how much filth I've been in, and if you had any idea what God has forgiven me of, and how much he's transformed me from an angry, bitter, unfaithful, lying person into, by His grace only, a man of God, then you'd realize that I have to talk about this God, this Jesus, this love that has radically changed my life.
> 
> To ask me to remain silent about the most important part of my life- Why, you might as well ask the sun to stop shining, the rain to stop falling or the flowers to stop blooming. As long as there is breath in my body, nothing will stop me from talking about the Jesus who saved me and made me new.
> 
> -Craig Groeshchel


What has God forgiven you for?

I want you to pick one thing, the worst thing you can think of that you've done in your life, something that affected someone else negatively. I want to show you something..


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jun 23, 2013)

My sins are covered under the blood of Christ sacrifice, and they are private. I apologize for any inconvenience. I have shared some of the things i have done in other posts, and i don't wish to share any more. Love and light to you.


----------



## ricky1lung (Jun 23, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> OldGrowth,* IMO there is nothing wrong with believing in Jesus, I used to.* But when you start telling people that they are going to hell for their unbelief than you start to piss the athiests and agnostics off. You should try and be more welcoming and not condemning.
> 
> *OldGrowth, I actually believe that I am Christ, but its not all I talk about.* And I personally dont believe in hell, as described in the Bible, but I do believe in the Kingdom of God and I want us all to go to the Kingdom.
> 
> ...




Just plain and simple ~ fucked


----------



## ricky1lung (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> My sins are covered under the blood of Christ sacrifice, and they are private. I apologize for any inconvenience. I have shared some of the things i have done in other posts, and i don't wish to share any more. Love and light to you.



If you have been forgiven for your sins there need not be shame in exposing your sins and your forgiveness
for others to see.

Do you believe wholeheartedly your forgiveness is true?


----------



## Kervork (Jun 23, 2013)

Hmm... My god is all knowing and all forgiving. I don't have to do anything and my god will forgive me because he loves me. He doesn't care if I love him, know him, give a shit about him, take his name in vain, he forgives me none the less because his love is unconditional. He loves gay people and bikers and negros and white people and chinese and dogs and cats, I could go on, unconditionally. 

The jesus god seems to come with so many conditions. He's not very unconditional. Can you imagine a god with such a big ego he gives a commandment not to take his name in vain? Trillion galaxies and some god gets pissed because you used his name incorrectly? What a horrible universe that would be, always being afraid you have offended your god and you are about to be smited. 

You have a small petty god. A god who demands your attention and worship. My god is much bigger and more powerful and apparently spends his time creating whole new universes as opposed to tormenting people after they die. Yes, I feel sorry for you for having such a puny god with so many strings attached to obtain his love.


----------



## ricky1lung (Jun 23, 2013)

[h=3]Matthew 7:15[/h] &#8220;Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.


----------



## Kervork (Jun 23, 2013)

Are you calling me a false prophet bitch? My god will strike you down and insure you run out of toilet paper at the worst possible time.


----------



## ricky1lung (Jun 23, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Are you calling me a false prophet bitch? My god will strike you down and insure you run out of toilet paper at the worst possible time.



Lmao, No, please spare the TP.

My quote was in reference to he who claims to be Christ in this and many other threads.

Lmao, I wont even touch the "my god is tougher than yours BS......,.


----------



## joe macclennan (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> My sins are covered under the blood of Christ sacrifice, and they are private.


Nothing a true god does or has done is or should be private. If your "god" has truly done such miraculous things you should be proud to share them. It is obvious you are not scared to spew your unfounded faith as evidenced by this thread.



OldGrowth420 said:


> I have shared some of the things i have done in other posts, and i don't wish to share any more.


 Afraid of the rebuttals you might encounter?



OldGrowth420 said:


> I apologize for any inconvenience.


No inconvenience to us. I think many of us enjoy shooting down your obvious blathering fervency. 



ricky1lung said:


> If you have been forgiven for your sins there need not be shame in exposing your sins and your forgiveness
> for others to see.
> Do you believe wholeheartedly your forgiveness is true?


Exactly, you may just be able to save another unfortunate soul. The church has covered up enough despicable deeds committed in the name of christ. Time to out with it if you are a true believer.

Show us all the way the light and the truth.


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> My sins are covered under the blood of Christ sacrifice, and they are private. I apologize for any inconvenience. I have shared some of the things i have done in other posts, and i don't wish to share any more. Love and light to you.


If there is only one God, and you raped someone and were forgiven for it, what would that say to the person who was raped? If you were raped and spent a week in the hospital in recovery and years were spent in psychological recovery from the trauma after that, how would you feel if your rapist was walking around the next day happy about being forgiven by the very same god you claim to believe in? He believes too, and he's genuinely sorry for what he did so God forgave him. 

Is that justice? Is that right?


----------



## GreenSummit (Jun 23, 2013)

HA! god and religion? what a crock! societal control at best, and worst. i cant believe so many adults still belive this fairy tales in this day in age. WTF is wrong with people. Step up and question your beliefs and what youve been TOLD to believe your whole life.


----------



## joe macclennan (Jun 23, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If there is only one God, and you raped someone and were forgiven for it, what would that say to the person who was raped? If you were raped and spent a week in the hospital in recovery and years were spent in psychological recovery from the trauma after that, how would you feel if your rapist was walking around the next day happy about being forgiven by the very same god you claim to believe in? He believes too, and he's genuinely sorry for what he did so God forgave him.
> 
> Is that justice? Is that right?



hey pada, You are supposed to forgive your friendly neighborhood rapist.

Esp. if he wears the trappings of a priest.


----------



## A Bloke Down The Pub (Jun 23, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Is that justice? Is that right?


You're expecting "justice" and "right" from the God who murdered everyone in Sodom & Gomorrah just for being a bit gay, and turned Lot's wife (who seems to have been of previously good character) to salt for just *looking back*?
Not to mention His slaying of all life on earth (except Noah and a few lucky animals)?

The Christian God is a hypocritical asshole.


----------



## *BUDS (Jun 23, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> OldGrowth, IMO there is nothing wrong with believing in Jesus, I used to. But when you start telling people that they are going to hell for their unbelief than you start to piss the athiests and agnostics off. You should try and be more welcoming and not condemning.
> 
> OldGrowth, I actually believe that I am Christ, but its not all I talk about. And I personally dont believe in hell, as described in the Bible, but I do believe in the Kingdom of God and I want us all to go to the Kingdom.
> 
> ...


You my friend are a lunatic, nothing more nothing less.


----------



## silasraven (Jun 23, 2013)

no matter what anyone who has bashed God and Jesus in the thread will always be the people bashing God and Jesus. rest in dirt. where your soul will lay forever.


----------



## tyler.durden (Jun 23, 2013)

[video=youtube;UA3OqrNnezc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA3OqrNnezc[/video]


----------



## dbkick (Jun 23, 2013)

silasraven said:


> no matter what anyone who has bashed God and Jesus in the thread will always be the people bashing God and Jesus. rest in dirt. where your soul will lay forever.


and you , live your life a slave to a fable then rest in dirt. where your soul will also lie forever.
you have the typical outlook of any religious fanatic , condemn anyone who doesn't believe the trash you choose to believe.


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jun 23, 2013)

I feel sorry for the people that seem bent on rejecting Christ and going to hell. I am at a loss as to what to say to you.. I've argued many arguments on this subject and they all seem to go nowhere. 

People seem to choose foolishly, with no regard for their eternal souls.

It all seems so strange to me.

The wise will heed the call, and take my advice..

These are the people i am here to reach.


----------



## suTraGrow (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I feel sorry for the people that seem bent on rejecting Christ and going to hell. I am at a loss as to what to say to you.. I've argued many arguments on this subject and they all seem to go nowhere.
> 
> People seem to choose foolishly, with no regard for their eternal souls.
> 
> ...


Why are you on a medical marijuana forum, preaching god and your believes? as well as trying to convert others, rather pointless dont you think.

Here I think you'll have much more luck here. http://www.christiansingles.com/

Good luck.


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## dbkick (Jun 23, 2013)

comes down to if I want to find god I'll go to a church not a pot growing forum.
Take some weed into the church and see what the reaction is. 
Go tell the church you're on a pot growing forum "saving" people .


----------



## joe macclennan (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I feel sorry for the people that seem bent on rejecting Christ and going to hell. I am at a loss as to what to say to you.. I've argued many arguments on this subject and they all seem to go nowhere.


Don't feel sorry for me. I am a confirmed methodist and am not rejecting christ at all. I am only asking that you explain your unequivocal belief that god has forgiven you for your sins. Is it because a man whom you give money to every sunday told you so? I would tell you that you are forgiven if you gave me money too. 



OldGrowth420 said:


> People seem to choose foolishly, with no regard for their eternal souls.


What is foolish is following a man or a text that is 2000 years old and has been translated so many times the true meaning of it has been lost. To not question "why" is foolish. Those who do are doomed to repeat history. Which *is* quite simply foolish. 


OldGrowth420 said:


> It all seems so strange to me..


You seem strange to many of us.


OldGrowth420 said:


> The wise will heed the call, and take my advice..


So you were sent here to save us? By whom? What was that scripture on false prophets?


OldGrowth420 said:


> These are the people i am here to reach.


Noone is beyond gods love. For you to give up on those who question is a failure on your part.


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 23, 2013)

@Tyler ,Old testament God is just as obnoxious as a Kid with an army and story writers at his command,and history was written by the victors of war,the big problem is the conquerers version of history is usualy so full of ignorant vainglory.


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## tyler.durden (Jun 23, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> @Tyler ,Old testament God is just as obnoxious as a Kid with an army and story writers at his command,and history was written by the victors of war,the big problem is the conquerers version of history is usualy so full of ignorant vainglory.


Amen, brother


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 23, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Amen, brother


I believe Dislexicmidget is a girl so its "Amen, sister".

But I could be wrong.

~PEACE~


----------



## tyler.durden (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I feel sorry for the people that seem bent on rejecting Christ and going to hell. I am at a loss as to what to say to you.. I've argued many arguments on this subject and they all seem to go nowhere.
> 
> People seem to choose foolishly, with no regard for their eternal souls.
> 
> ...


I've shown you before that there are only 2 billion christians in the world, that means 5 billion non-christians. You and your beliefs are outnumbered, and by choosing one path the odds seem that you are the one choosing incorrectly and you may wind up in a non-christian hell for it. You may want to find a way to hedge your bet - 

We refuse to play your losing game -

[video=youtube;Gcw1YEtTQCw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcw1YEtTQCw&amp;list=PLsDSZN7Z5iUERpEt2g6t9Ynx CLqGpeHb1[/video]


Maybe you can find yourself in this video - 

[youtube]8Eam-z1bwrk[/youtube]


----------



## ricky1lung (Jun 23, 2013)

The statements of eternal damnation just don't seem to fit with the teachings of
tolerance/acceptance.

Whether someone shared my beliefs or not, when they leave this world I would
not wish an infinite torment upon them.

Statements like those are used to instil fear in others.

Why would a good christian say I will or hope I suffer for all time?


----------



## Nevaeh420 (Jun 23, 2013)

ricky1lung said:


> Why would a good christian say I will or hope I suffer for all time?


A good Christian would not say that, but if a Christian did say that it would be a type of scrare tactic so that you believe what he/she believes!

The objective of relgions is to convert as many people as possible because the biggest cult "wins".

~PEACE~


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm going to start posting videos from my pastor, he's the pastor of the largest church in the country Life Church Tv 
I highly recommend his teachings, he's funny and intelligent and i think you will really enjoy him.

[video=youtube;DdNk2AnMYnM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdNk2AnMYnM&amp;feature=c4-overview-vl&amp;list=PL1AA61304B04476E4[/video]


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jun 23, 2013)

On the Road week two Craig Groeschel Life Church Tv

[video=youtube;VmZRVHKrTHs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmZRVHKrTHs&amp;feature=c4-overview-vl&amp;list=PL1AA61304B04476E4[/video]


----------



## Padawanbater2 (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I'm going to start posting videos from my pastor, he's the pastor of the largest church in the country Life Church Tv
> I highly recommend his teachings, he's funny and intelligent and i think you will really enjoy him.
> 
> [video=youtube;DdNk2AnMYnM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdNk2AnMYnM&amp;feature=c4-overview-vl&amp;list=PL1AA61304B04476E4[/video]


People like this ruin whatever good organized religion might have been


----------



## smokinafatty (Jun 23, 2013)

Any creator that exists, exists regardless of what religious history that any human subscribes to. And whether it thinks or has emotions, you have no idea.


----------



## joe macclennan (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I'm going to start posting videos from my pastor, he's the pastor of the largest church in the country Life Church Tv
> I highly recommend his teachings, he's funny and intelligent and i think you will really enjoy him.
> 
> [video=youtube;DdNk2AnMYnM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdNk2AnMYnM&amp;feature=c4-overview-vl&amp;list=PL1AA61304B04476E4[/video]


WTF? as I thought 

fail


----------



## tyler.durden (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I'm going to start posting videos from my pastor, he's the pastor of the largest church in the country Life Church Tv
> I highly recommend his teachings, he's funny and intelligent and i think you will really enjoy him.


You thought wrong...


----------



## Sunbiz1 (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Here's what you need to understand. When you've seen what I've seen, and heard what I've heard, you can't be quiet about it. If you just knew who i was, how much filth I've been in, and if you had any idea what God has forgiven me of, and how much he's transformed me from an angry, bitter, unfaithful, lying person into, by His grace only, a man of God, then you'd realize that I have to talk about this God, this Jesus, this love that has radically changed my life.
> 
> To ask me to remain silent about the most important part of my life- Why, you might as well ask the sun to stop shining, the rain to stop falling or the flowers to stop blooming. As long as there is breath in my body, nothing will stop me from talking about the Jesus who saved me and made me new.
> 
> -Craig Groeshchel


Easy enough for a new believer, until the trials set in...that's when gold is separated from dross.

And believers fall away.


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 23, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I believe Dislexicmidget is a girl so its "Amen, sister".
> 
> But I could be wrong.
> 
> ~PEACE~


lol, Hey Neveah when is the last time you have been with a woman if ever?I believe you are quite delusional and I could very well be correct.


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 23, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I feel sorry for the people that seem bent on rejecting Christ and going to hell. I am at a loss as to what to say to you.. I've argued many arguments on this subject and they all seem to go nowhere.
> 
> People seem to choose foolishly, with no regard for their eternal souls.
> 
> ...


It all seems strange to you because you are actualy out of touch with reality.You need to seek mental help, many people here have tryed to help you see the bubble you have placed your mindset into, yet you are abundantly ignorant of anything that may lead you to question your Gods existence,.May you find the strength to question your beliefs.


----------



## Nevaeh420 (Jun 23, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> lol, Hey Neveah when is the last time you have been with a woman if ever?I believe you are quite delusional and I could very well be correct.



Ya, whatever "fairy godmother".





EDIT- I may be delusional to some people but that is a SUBJECTIVE word. And I've been with plenty of women, thank you. I'm very handsome and I'm a nice person too. But to be honest, I have been single for about a year. 

~PEACE~


----------



## ProfessorPotSnob (Jun 23, 2013)

[video=youtube;KubgMDSMXfI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KubgMDSMXfI[/video]


----------



## chongsbuddy (Jun 23, 2013)

why has more people died in the name of religion than anything else.....


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 23, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Ya, whatever "fairy godmother".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




..........


----------



## Kervork (Jun 23, 2013)

Once again people, don't belive this Jesus stuff. Worship the one true god. The creator of the multiverse, lover of all within it. My god will not burn you in hell. My god presents a path to omnipotence and immortality to all who care to follow it. My god is much bigger than Jesus. He's freaking huge. Bigger than our sun, bigger than our solar system, bigger than our galaxy, bigger than our universe. Totally fucking huge. So huge that huge looses all meaning. If you took really fucking big and raised it to the 512th power of 10 it would still be tiny in comparison. The christian god is a tiny petty little god. Like an ant in comparison to the enormity of my god. Despite his size, he's very friendly and wishes you to know that he is sorry for your suffering and all the shit he puts you through and he only does it because he loves you and has to get shit done. 

He doesn't care if you suck cock or bongs either. Not his business.


----------



## Nevaeh420 (Jun 24, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Once again people, don't belive this Jesus stuff. Worship the one true god. The creator of the multiverse, lover of all within it. My god will not burn you in hell. My god presents a path to omnipotence and immortality to all who care to follow it. My god is much bigger than Jesus. He's freaking huge. Bigger than our sun, bigger than our solar system, bigger than our galaxy, bigger than our universe. Totally fucking huge. So huge that huge looses all meaning. If you took really fucking big and raised it to the 512th power of 10 it would still be tiny in comparison. The christian god is a tiny petty little god. Like an ant in comparison to the enormity of my god. Despite his size, he's very friendly and wishes you to know that he is sorry for your suffering and all the shit he puts you through and he only does it because he loves you and has to get shit done.
> 
> He doesn't care if you suck cock or bongs either. Not his business.


Whats your gods name and how do I know he exists if hes so big?

Wheres the evidence and why should I believe?

~PEACE~


----------



## Zaehet Strife (Jun 24, 2013)

I can't argue against someone who has a acquired over his life, a psychological need to believe in things that cannot be seen. It is a mental disorder, that cannot be fixed with any amount of logic or fact... it is worthless to argue against. Time playing video games would be much better spent, the more i get on this web sight, the more i realize that what i deem as trying to help someone happens once in a million, and it isn't really worth it.


----------



## tyler.durden (Jun 24, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Ya, whatever "fairy godmother".
> 
> 
> EDIT- I may be delusional to some people but that is a SUBJECTIVE word.


No, delusional is an objective word: 
*
3. * _Psychiatry_ A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: _delusions of persecution._

The beliefs we hold are either in accordance with objective reality or they are not. If one holds beliefs that are not true (in accordance with objective reality) even when given invalidating evidence, one is deluded and perhaps mentally ill...



> And I've been with plenty of women, thank you. *I'm very handsome* *and I'm a nice person too*. But to be honest, I have been single for about a year.
> 
> ~PEACE~


Lol! We've seen you. You aren't ugly, but I would not rate you as very handsome. You do seem pretty nice, for a nutcase


----------



## joe macclennan (Jun 24, 2013)

THis entire thread sucks What the fuck am I doing in the spirituality section anyways? 

FUCK this unsubbed


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jun 24, 2013)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Whats your gods name and how do I know he exists if hes so big?
> 
> Wheres the evidence and why should I believe?
> 
> ~PEACE~


*You *are asking for _*evidence*? _

You really are crazy!


----------



## Kervork (Jun 24, 2013)

My god obviously exists or there would be no multiverse and thus it follows that he is bigger than the multiverse. Since my god is far bigger than your god it follows that my god created your god. If you deny the existance of my god, then you deny the existance of yours. 

Why would the one true god need a name? That makes no sense, how could you name that which is beyond all names. Only a lesser god would need a name for people to remember him by.


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jun 24, 2013)

Kervork said:


> My god obviously exists or there would be no multiverse and thus it follows that he is bigger than the multiverse. Since my god is far bigger than your god it follows that my god created your god. If you deny the existance of my god, then you deny the existance of yours.
> 
> Why would the one true god need a name? That makes no sense, how could you name that which is beyond all names. Only a lesser god would need a name for people to remember him by.


You can't prove that a multiverse exists, so you first premise is unproven. 

You are basing your entire reason for belief on an unproven statement. That's a huge leap of faith.

How do you know he is 'bigger' than the multiverse? Why does a creator have to be bigger than what it's creating? That doesn't logically follow either.


----------



## Kervork (Jun 24, 2013)

I've seen the multiverse and talked with the almighty one. I was told how the multiverse was created and why. It might be a leap of faith for you because you have not seen it, however for those who have seen it and been touched by the great one it is fact. Now, the creation does not have to be smaller than the creator, however in this case it is. You see, the multiverse is not all there is, it is only a small part of creation vast though it is. 

Science will eventually find proof of the multiverse. They aren't looking very hard right now because the idea terrifies them, but they're starting to come around. 

Don't get so defensive. I'm not trying to force you to believe, I'm just showing you the truth. My god will not punish you for not believing, he doesn't give a shit. He will continue loving you regardless of what you do because you obey his law, like it or not. No one breaks the laws of my god, can't be done. He's all powerful and doesn't make laws which can be broken. 

If you believe and understand and follow the path, you will be granted omnipotence and immortality. Turn away from the darkness and be bathed it the light of love from the Absolute.


----------



## tyler.durden (Jun 24, 2013)

^^ That's some crazy thread-jacking. I'm not complaining, you're much more entertaining to OG's hateful shit...


----------



## Beefbisquit (Jun 24, 2013)

Kervork said:


> I've seen the multiverse and talked with the almighty one. I was told how the multiverse was created and why. It might be a leap of faith for you because you have not seen it, however for those who have seen it and been touched by the great one it is fact. Now, the creation does not have to be smaller than the creator, however in this case it is. You see, the multiverse is not all there is, it is only a small part of creation vast though it is.
> 
> Science will eventually find proof of the multiverse. They aren't looking very hard right now because the idea terrifies them, but they're starting to come around.
> 
> ...


It really doesn't seem like the truth. Usually, when people say 'this is the truth', they follow it up with evidence. Your reports of 'meeting god', _to any person but you_, sound indistinguishable from the reports of someone in a mental hospital claiming they're an angel, or some nutbar on a forum claiming to be the son of god. It doesn't mean it's impossible that you met with god, but it is unlikely. Whatever you believe happened, regardless of how real it seemed, is more likely a natural phenomenon than a supernatural one. 

People, myself included, are not experts on the brain just because we have one. What you feel, see, taste, and experience can be altered by simple electromagnetic signals and because of this, it is _exponentially_ more likely that a human created, or naturally occurring disruption to your brain caused your experiences, as opposed to you meeting god.

People who claim to have met ghosts, or seen the future, or met god never seem to be able to provide any information about the world, unless of course it's something un-testable, i.e. we live in a multiverse, and this is how it was created. 

Why didn't god give you irrefutable proof that he was god, and not your imagination? Lol, I guess 'god works in mysterious ways'.... And by that, I mean in ways that are indistinguishable from your imagination.


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## Kervork (Jun 24, 2013)

And exactly what proof would god give someone that he exists? A business card? A black hole? A super nova? Here take this black hole back with you as proof of my visit.. oops.. maybe that wasn't such a good idea. 

Perhaps the fact he gave me psychic powers is proof. I can see that when you were a child, someone touched you inappropriately. You liked it but this caused a deep conflict in your psyche which manifests today. In the name of the Almighty Infinite One I cast out those conflicting emotions and cure you. Go forth you are now healed. Behold, a Miracle. You have been healed across the internet. Do you need more proving?


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## SSHZ (Jun 24, 2013)

This is so pathetic........it cries for some professional help.


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## Kervork (Jun 24, 2013)

No, he won't need professional help, I have cured him. He will have a normal sex life now.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not your own penis trapped in zipper.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 24, 2013)

Kervork said:


> And exactly what proof would god give someone that he exists? A business card? A black hole? A super nova? Here take this black hole back with you as proof of my visit.. oops.. maybe that wasn't such a good idea.
> 
> Perhaps the fact he gave me psychic powers is proof. I can see that when you were a child, someone touched you inappropriately. You liked it but this caused a deep conflict in your psyche which manifests today. In the name of the Almighty Infinite One I cast out those conflicting emotions and cure you. Go forth you are now healed. Behold, a Miracle. You have been healed across the internet. Do you need more proving?


That response is about as inane as your original idea. 

God, an all powerful being, could easily tell you the date and time a significant event would happen. Hell, he could CREATE the significant event! He could make the world stop spinning without consequence, he could literally do anything. If you can only come up with a 'black hole' or a 'supernova' as a way for god to reveal himself, not only are your ideas lacking logic; but you have a shitty imagination too. 

He's _your_ god, not mine - why should I try to rationalize an imaginary being for you? You're the one claiming he exists, surely if he has any powers at all it would be childs play to prove he exists to everyone simultaneously.


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## Kervork (Jun 24, 2013)

Predicting the future in a multiverse where anything that can happen does happen seems a bit redundant. You seem to have strange ideas about how the universe works. No wonder he doesn't talk to you.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 24, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Predicting the future in a multiverse where anything that can happen does happen seems a bit redundant. You seem to have strange ideas about how the universe works. No wonder he doesn't talk to you.


It's not redundant. 

In a multiverse where every possibly exists in a separate reality (or universe), an omnipotent being would still have knowledge of every instant, of each universe, simultaneously. 

If the entity didn't possess that ability, then it would not be omniscient.

Even in quantum theory, where there is no exact location of electrons, only a probability, an omniscient being would still be required to know all available knowledge at any given time, in all realities, simultaneously or it would cease to be omniscient. If the entity isn't capable of that, what makes you so sure it would be capable of _creating_ the multiverse?


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## brotherjericho (Jun 24, 2013)

Ya know what is great about preaching about Jesus on this forum? OG is like that guy on the busy street corner with little foot but much more auto traffic. We can stop and listen or pass by and laugh about how much of a dumb ass he is. I think we know what most do.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 24, 2013)

Hey OldGrowth420, how about you focus on the POSITIVE side of Christianity instead of insisting that we NEED to be saved by Jesus from burning in hell for eternity because we chose not to be apart of the cool kids club. A lot of Christians believe that Jesus died for everyone's sins so that no one would ever go to hell, why cant you be like that? You're only pushing people further away from the so called truth you know because you focus on the hateful fire and brimstone aspect of Christianity.


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## cannabineer (Jun 24, 2013)

Kervork said:


> I've seen the multiverse and talked with the almighty one. I was told how the multiverse was created and why. It might be a leap of faith for you because you have not seen it, however for those who have seen it and been touched by the great one it is fact. Now, the creation does not have to be smaller than the creator, however in this case it is. You see, the multiverse is not all there is, it is only a small part of creation vast though it is.
> 
> Science will eventually find proof of the multiverse. They aren't looking very hard right now because the idea terrifies them, but they're starting to come around.
> 
> ...


This fascinates me when maybe it shouldn't. But what test/validation protocol do you recommend? cn


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## A Bloke Down The Pub (Jun 25, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> This fascinates me when maybe it shouldn't. But what test/validation protocol do you recommend? cn


Tests???
If the Magic Fairy in the Sky *says* it's true, then it *IS* true.

It's self evident.


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## Kervork (Jun 26, 2013)

Ok, so you want to find out if it is true. First you will have to experience ego death. This will show you that you are not what you think you are. It won't however show you what you are. As you start to repeatedly experience this state you will find that it becomes easier each time, to the point where you can eventually will it for short periods of time without any need for chemical assistance. Eventually, in that silence and pure awareness you will stumble across a new state which reveals your true identity. And in those few seconds you will experience omnipotence. Your world will be forever changed, it will feel as if reality has become rubber and you can push here and there looking for a weak spot which will break through to change the world. Things will happen which you would never believe, your timing will be improved, your intuition will grow. All from just a few seconds of enlightenment. Eventually it will fade, your life will return to normal. Still there will be a desire to return once again to the light. 

But beware, with great power comes great responsibility and an even greater temptation to use that power for selfish ends. When you understand the truth but you act against it, the suffering is a hundred times greater than acting in ignorance. I abused my power for earthly gain and I was cast down the mountain, doomed to repeat that long tedious climb once again. My powers stripped and my life in ruin. The evil I created lives on in this world, given great power by my hand. No amount of regret will return it to whence it came, I am forever doomed to live in the world I befouled for my own enrichment. In the end, the money, the porn stars, the cars, the cocaine, all gone. And it turns out, that is a blessing. I never needed those things, they only separated me from the truth and the light. I was a fool for making that trade. Now I live my life and pay a heavy debt in the hope I can some day again be free.


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## tyler.durden (Jun 26, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Ok, so you want to find out if it is true. First you will have to experience ego death. This will show you that you are not what you think you are. It won't however show you what you are. As you start to repeatedly experience this state you will find that it becomes easier each time, to the point where you can eventually will it for short periods of time without any need for chemical assistance. Eventually, in that silence and pure awareness you will stumble across a new state which reveals your true identity. And in those few seconds you will experience omnipotence. Your world will be forever changed, it will feel as if reality has become rubber and you can push here and there looking for a weak spot which will break through to change the world. Things will happen which you would never believe, your timing will be improved, your intuition will grow. All from just a few seconds of enlightenment...


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 26, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Ok, so you want to find out if it is true. First you will have to experience ego death. This will show you that you are not what you think you are. It won't however show you what you are. As you start to repeatedly experience this state you will find that it becomes easier each time, to the point where you can eventually will it for short periods of time without any need for chemical assistance. Eventually, in that silence and pure awareness you will stumble across a new state which reveals your true identity. And in those few seconds you will experience omnipotence. Your world will be forever changed, it will feel as if reality has become rubber and you can push here and there looking for a weak spot which will break through to change the world. Things will happen which you would never believe, your timing will be improved, your intuition will grow. All from just a few seconds of enlightenment. Eventually it will fade, your life will return to normal. Still there will be a desire to return once again to the light.
> 
> But beware, with great power comes great responsibility and an even greater temptation to use that power for selfish ends. When you understand the truth but you act against it, the suffering is a hundred times greater than acting in ignorance. I abused my power for earthly gain and I was cast down the mountain, doomed to repeat that long tedious climb once again. My powers stripped and my life in ruin. The evil I created lives on in this world, given great power by my hand. No amount of regret will return it to whence it came, I am forever doomed to live in the world I befouled for my own enrichment. In the end, the money, the porn stars, the cars, the cocaine, all gone. And it turns out, that is a blessing. I never needed those things, they only separated me from the truth and the light. I was a fool for making that trade. Now I live my life and pay a heavy debt in the hope I can some day again be free.


So, now you're magical too....

Awesome, so far I've met the 'son of god' and a magic ninja. Just need to meet an oompaloompa and I've finished meeting my bucket list of imaginary people. 

This is more entertaining than listening to the patients at the mental hospital I used to work at. One guy used to always dress in Naruto clothes and run around claiming he was a ninja.... he was 35 and acted 12. You guys sound a like. 

Cool story.


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## Kervork (Jun 26, 2013)

Ahh you of little faith. Perhaps you are better off believing the Jezus zombie and eating his flesh so you can one day become a zombie too.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 26, 2013)

Eh, are you talking about me? I'm an atheist.


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## kpmarine (Jun 26, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Hey OldGrowth420, how about you focus on the POSITIVE side of Christianity instead of insisting that we NEED to be saved by Jesus from burning in hell for eternity because we chose not to be apart of the cool kids club. A lot of Christians believe that Jesus died for everyone's sins so that no one would ever go to hell, why cant you be like that? You're only pushing people further away from the so called truth you know because you focus on the hateful fire and brimstone aspect of Christianity.


It's a load of tripe either way. Why does it matter how he approaches it?


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 26, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Ok, so you want to find out if it is true. First you will have to experience ego death. This will show you that you are not what you think you are. It won't however show you what you are. As you start to repeatedly experience this state you will find that it becomes easier each time, to the point where you can eventually will it for short periods of time without any need for chemical assistance. Eventually, in that silence and pure awareness you will stumble across a new state which reveals your true identity. And in those few seconds you will experience omnipotence. Your world will be forever changed, it will feel as if reality has become rubber and you can push here and there looking for a weak spot which will break through to change the world. Things will happen which you would never believe, your timing will be improved, your intuition will grow. All from just a few seconds of enlightenment. Eventually it will fade, your life will return to normal. Still there will be a desire to return once again to the light.
> 
> But beware, with great power comes great responsibility and an even greater temptation to use that power for selfish ends. When you understand the truth but you act against it, the suffering is a hundred times greater than acting in ignorance. I abused my power for earthly gain and I was cast down the mountain, doomed to repeat that long tedious climb once again. My powers stripped and my life in ruin. The evil I created lives on in this world, given great power by my hand. No amount of regret will return it to whence it came, I am forever doomed to live in the world I befouled for my own enrichment. In the end, the money, the porn stars, the cars, the cocaine, all gone. And it turns out, that is a blessing. I never needed those things, they only separated me from the truth and the light. I was a fool for making that trade. Now I live my life and pay a heavy debt in the hope I can some day again be free.


If I were to introduce a new character in a story and wanted him to be the exact stereotype of a burnout hippie, this is what I would have him say


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## Nevaeh420 (Jun 26, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Awesome, so far I've met the 'son of god'



[youtube]Rl6fyhZ0G5E[/youtube]

~PEACE~


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 26, 2013)

kpmarine said:


> It's a load of tripe either way. Why does it matter how he approaches it?


True. But if he didnt feel the need to "save" everyone then there would be less rants. His head would be in the clouds, happy that everyone is gunna be ok lol


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## Kervork (Jun 26, 2013)

Jesus thread succesfully hijacked.  

I think the heathen has fled.


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## potpimp (Jun 27, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Jesus thread succesfully hijacked.
> 
> I think the heathen has fled.


How exceptionally fucking tolerant of you all. This forum should be called ANTI-RELIGION.


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## kpmarine (Jun 27, 2013)

potpimp said:


> How exceptionally fucking tolerant of you all. This forum should be called ANTI-RELIGION.


How very sensational of you.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 27, 2013)

potpimp said:


> How exceptionally fucking tolerant of you all. This forum should be called ANTI-RELIGION.


And how would you deal with someones pushing of a hate filled religion?Tolerance I take it?


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## silasraven (Jun 27, 2013)

imagine it like this, tons of people seem to think you need to read the bible to get Christ. 2,000 years worth of work on one book. but the second coming is coming, so why wouldn't there be scribes to write it. just as the first, where Jesus will stay,where he will drive, what he will say,what he will do. someone will write about it,photograph it, video it. why should we look to a book to show us the old when we are headed to the knew. look forward my friends..


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## A Bloke Down The Pub (Jun 27, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Ok, so you want to find out if it is true. First you will have to experience ego death....[clip]... pay a heavy debt in the hope I can some day again be free.


Didn't anyone tell you that what you experience after taking shrooms isn't actually _*real*_?

I've seen houseplants waving at me in a friendly fashion and green glass rods rotating above my stairwell...... _but they weren't actually there_


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## potpimp (Jun 27, 2013)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> And how would you deal with someones pushing of a hate filled religion?Tolerance I take it?


You're obviously talking about Muslims, not Christians. You don't see Christians hating people do you? And if you're talking about their beliefs being "hateful", you're wrong. NOT that I'm a Christian!! What someone believes should not bother you; it's a free country and you should have thicker skin. So I presume you're talking about Muslims; you know, the ones that kill hundreds of thousands of innocents every year and SWEAR they will kill every other human that does not believe exactly like them.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 27, 2013)

potpimp said:


> You're obviously talking about Muslims, not Christians. You don't see Christians hating people do you? And if you're talking about their beliefs being "hateful", you're wrong. NOT that I'm a Christian!! What someone believes should not bother you; it's a free country and you should have thicker skin. So I presume you're talking about Muslims; you know, the ones that kill hundreds of thousands of innocents every year and SWEAR they will kill every other human that does not believe exactly like them.


Here we go again with the 'No true Scotsman' Fallacy..... 

"No true Christians are hateful" BLAH BLAH BLAH.... Witch burning? Crusades? Inquisition? Westboro Baptists? 

Popes used to off each other over nothing... there were even Inscestuous Popes born from Fathers bedding their daughters.... Nothing bad about Christianity there! What about the 14th century when Christians blamed Jews for the black death, and burned a lot of them to death?

Pope John XXIII was a murdering, rapist that sodomized people - also the richest man in the world at the time.... was he a true Christian?

What about the Christian Knights that pillaged muslims and catapulted their heads into the towns and cities they were attacking? 

What about Constantinople? Were they 'true Christians'?

What about the 30 year war between Protestants and Catholics that devastated most of central Europe? Were they 'True Christians'?

What about the bombing of Abortion Clinics?

This is just the tip of the iceberg, I could go on, and on, and on, and on.....


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 27, 2013)

potpimp said:


> You're obviously talking about Muslims, not Christians. You don't see Christians hating people do you? And if you're talking about their beliefs being "hateful", you're wrong. NOT that I'm a Christian!! What someone believes should not bother you; it's a free country and you should have thicker skin. So I presume you're talking about Muslims; you know, the ones that kill hundreds of thousands of innocents every year and SWEAR they will kill every other human that does not believe exactly like them.


Full retard on that one potpimp.. 

Of course I see Christians hate people, every single day of my life I see that shit

What someone believes shouldn't bother you? Why, because they _believe_ it? Again, full fuckin' retard. Beliefs are not immune to criticism.

Also, did you know TODDLERS are responsible for more American deaths than Muslim extremists?

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/guns/toddlers-killed-more-americans-terrorists-did-year

But those Billions we keep wasting sure are keeping you safe!


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## tyler.durden (Jun 27, 2013)

silasraven said:


> imagine it like this, tons of people seem to think you need to read the bible to get Christ. 2,000 years worth of work on one book. but the second coming is coming


That's a lot of coming! 









> so why wouldn't there be scribes to write it. just as the first, where Jesus will stay,where he will drive










> what he will say,what he will do. someone will write about it,photograph it, video it. why should we look to a book to *show us the old when we are headed to the knew*.


I like the phrase with this spelling, that's clever (albeit unintentional)



> look forward my friends..


If he can make it by July 4th, I'm having a huge, kick ass BBQ down at the lake. I got the beef and beer, he can bring all the wine, loaves and fish...


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## tyler.durden (Jun 27, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Full retard on that one potpimp..
> 
> Of course I see Christians hate people, every single day of my life I see that shit
> 
> ...


Pad, you shouldn't have brought that up. Now, Uncle Sam is gonna start rounding up the toddlers and putting them in camps. Though, I understand toddler camp isn't that bad...


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## kpmarine (Jun 27, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Pad, you shouldn't have brought that up. Now, Uncle Sam is gonna start rounding up the toddlers and putting them in camps. Though, I understand toddler camp isn't that bad...


I hear naptime can get pretty hardcore.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 27, 2013)

It's been too long since someone posted this,

[video=youtube;P4dSiHqpULk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4dSiHqpULk[/video]


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 27, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> It's been too long since someone posted this,
> 
> [video=youtube;P4dSiHqpULk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4dSiHqpULk[/video]


Oh my fucking god. I love this man.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 27, 2013)

potpimp said:


> You're obviously talking about Muslims, not Christians. You don't see Christians hating people do you? And if you're talking about their beliefs being "hateful", you're wrong. NOT that I'm a Christian!! What someone believes should not bother you; it's a free country and you should have thicker skin. So I presume you're talking about Muslims; you know, the ones that kill hundreds of thousands of innocents every year and SWEAR they will kill every other human that does not believe exactly like them.


The bible has similar murderous hatred. I think Islam is the way it is right now because its younger than Christianity, go five hundred years or so in the past and Christianity would be doing the same thing, if not worse.


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## potpimp (Jun 27, 2013)

You people think you know something but you don't. I won't even dignify your ignorance with corrections. But don't worry about me popping back in here because I won't. Personally I don't see why we even have a "religious" forum here. Any religion is welcome here except Christianity. Like I said, *I'm NOT a Christian; I don't believe in "Jesus"*, but I do recognize a blatant double standard when I see one. Unsubscribing.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 27, 2013)

potpimp said:


> You people think you know something but you don't. I won't even dignify your ignorance with corrections. But don't worry about me popping back in here because I won't. Personally I don't see why we even have a "religious" forum here. Any religion is welcome here except Christianity. Like I said, *I'm NOT a Christian; I don't believe in "Jesus"*, but I do recognize a blatant double standard when I see one. Unsubscribing.


Well, it's unfortunate you feel that way, because tucking tail and running away from anything you don't like isn't a very good way of figuring things out. 

If you've paid attention at all to this sub, you would have realized this issue has been addressed multiple times here before. 

I think this is so tough for people who are not atheists in the western world to accept because they fail to see things from an atheistic perspective, they fail to link the points of history to the examples given and they fail to acknowledge any wrongdoing by Christianity, even when it's legitimate. 

Any religion *is*welcome here, as long as it doesn't actively promote, encourage, or support blatant racism, violence, stupidity or ignorance. Also unfortunately, Christianity fails to meet those requirements. Islam does too, but not many Muslims visit RIU that I'm aware of, when they do, they get run through the gauntlet of logic by the regulars just like Christianity frequently does. 


The _religion_ itself isn't the problem, it's the dumbasses who decide what is written in an ancient text holds more weight regarding human rights than what centuries of established scientific fact tell us.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 28, 2013)

[video=youtube;09CDz3kmEc8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09CDz3kmEc8[/video]


----------



## mindphuk (Jun 28, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> [video=youtube;09CDz3kmEc8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09CDz3kmEc8[/video]


For a "donation" of $35.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 28, 2013)

potpimp said:


> You people think you know something but you don't. I won't even dignify your ignorance with corrections. But don't worry about me popping back in here because I won't. Personally I don't see why we even have a "religious" forum here. Any religion is welcome here except Christianity. Like I said, *I'm NOT a Christian; I don't believe in "Jesus"*, but I do recognize a blatant double standard when I see one. Unsubscribing.


Why so narrow minded?I think we would rather see you around here more often for discussion/debate.It wasnt my intention to offend you with my question about tolerance,but you seem predisposed toward angst at any rate potpimp,my bad for making it worse.


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## Ballsonrawls (Jun 30, 2013)

prayer can do fascinating things. with you on that one.


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## kpmarine (Jun 30, 2013)

Ballsonrawls said:


> prayer can do fascinating things. with you on that one.


What sort of fascinating things?


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## kpmarine (Jun 30, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Jesus said
> [h=3]Matthew 10:33 ESV / 214 helpful votes[/h] But whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.


Translation: Accept me as your loving, all powerful, god or burn in hell. Totally no pressure though; free will and all.


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 30, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Jesus said
> *Matthew 10:33 ESV / 214 helpful votes*
> 
> But whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.



James Brown said;

Hair is the first thing. And teeth the second. Hair and teeth. A man got those two things he's got it all. 


...and James Brown actually exists!


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## Ballsonrawls (Jun 30, 2013)

its done things for me and helped me, as well as many others i know. many times praying is all you can do.


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## kpmarine (Jun 30, 2013)

Ballsonrawls said:


> its done things for me and helped me, as well as many others i know. many times praying is all you can do.


Ah, I see.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 30, 2013)

Stop spamming the thread with Bible quotes or it'll be closed


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 30, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Jesus said
> *Matthew 10:33 ESV *
> 
> But whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.


Same thing here, that's not what this forum is for, more bible quotes and the thread will be closed, that's just spam, we've all read the bible, probably more than you


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## Beefbisquit (Jun 30, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Where will you spend eternity?
> *Romans 10:9*
> 
> New International Version (NIV)
> ...


Mother Theresa said;

"Where is my faith? Even deep down&#8230; there is nothing but emptiness and darkness... If there be God &#8212; please forgive me."

"Such deep longing for God&#8230; Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal,"

"What do I labor for? If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true."



Thought it was ironic you quote her in your signature.


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## A Bloke Down The Pub (Jun 30, 2013)

Not suitable for those offended easily:

[video=youtube;fHRDfut2Vx0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRDfut2Vx0[/video]



But jolly good, all the same.


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## skunkd0c (Jun 30, 2013)

I come in the name of JESUS 
are you laughing BEEARCH !!

[video=youtube;6_pV0H5ieiw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_pV0H5ieiw[/video]


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## Sir.Ganga (Jul 1, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I feel sorry for the people that seem bent on rejecting Christ and going to hell. I am at a loss as to what to say to you.. I've argued many arguments on this subject and they all seem to go nowhere.
> 
> People seem to choose foolishly, with no regard for their eternal souls.
> 
> ...


 Its great to hear that you have turned your life around but sad to see you giving the credit to your god. Your selling you the person...short. YOU turned YOUR life around not anyone or thing...YOU. You have been duped into believing in something. Believe in yourself because it was YOU that made the choice to change. In short there is no god, you brainwashed yourself into believing he helped you when it was YOU all the time.


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 1, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I feel sorry for the people that seem bent on rejecting Christ and going to hell. I am at a loss as to what to say to you.. I've argued many arguments on this subject and they all seem to go nowhere.


You've certainly 'said' a lot, but as for making an argument, I've yet to see one. All you've done is quote scripture, which we've already told you we won't take seriously until you can;

a) Prove god exists (Independently of the bible)
b) Prove the Christian god exists (Independently of the bible)
c) Prove the Christian god had anything to do with the bible
d) Prove that the bible hasn't been modified by man, to suit his purposes. 



> People seem to choose foolishly, with no regard for their eternal souls.
> 
> It all seems so strange to me.


Having regard for the non-existent is stupid. When you can *demonstrate *that the soul exists, people will have reason to believe it exists.



> The wise will heed the call, and take my advice..
> 
> These are the people i am here to reach.


If by wise, you mean people with no critical thinking ability; I might agree with you.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jul 1, 2013)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Its great to hear that you have turned your life around but sad to see you giving the credit to your god. Your selling you the person...short. YOU turned YOUR life around not anyone or thing...YOU. You have been duped into believing in something. Believe in yourself because it was YOU that made the choice to change. In short there is no god, you brainwashed yourself into believing he helped you when it was YOU all the time.



OG would rather avert his attention from learning about logic or critical thinking because it would endanger his "faith",he believes blindly and stays within his circular mumbo jumbo and he hears voices that he believes is God talking to him.He just comes on once or twice a week and spams threads with scripture .I agree with you ganja its always going to be the person and there actions that make change not any God or Gods.


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## tyler.durden (Jul 1, 2013)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Its great to hear that you have turned your life around but sad to see you giving the credit to your god. Your selling you the person...short. YOU turned YOUR life around not anyone or thing...YOU. You have been duped into believing in something. Believe in yourself because it was YOU that made the choice to change. In short there is no god, you brainwashed yourself into believing he helped you when it was YOU all the time.


[video=youtube;YymNb-pr-Pc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YymNb-pr-Pc[/video]


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## schuylaar (Jul 1, 2013)

ricky1lung said:


> Just plain and simple ~ fucked


Awwwwww..there are "special" places one usually goes to when one is convinced they are "superhuman" although they display no superhuman ability or not surprisingly want to "write a book", which never materializes..my brother was in one of these places out of sheer madness brought on by delusions after shooting up smack back in the '80s and trying to murder my father with an axe..

He never wrote that book but still insists year after year he's gonna..now he was born December 18, 1961, which make his claims as lord and savior more valid than any of you others since he was born first and of course you can see the symbolic pattern of being born EXACTLY 7 days before December 25th..can't you?


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## schuylaar (Jul 4, 2013)

Ballsonrawls said:


> its done things for me and helped me, as well as many others i know. many times praying is all you can do.


Prayer does not help..there are scientific studies that prove this.

I'm gonna share a secret with you..this concept is actually a principle of the SUCCESSFUL professional sales representative..YOU are your own god and command your own destiny..when the going gets rough YOU make the change(s) within yourself and then will begin to see circumstances around you change. Not enough clients, not enough money..YOU have to change what YOU do..take care of today and tomorrow will take care of itself..put it all together and you have yourself a MIRACLE


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 4, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> My prayers seemed to have helped my back pain immensely.
> They certainly have helped repair my mind.









...to obtain higher order. If a person's mind is its own universe, prayer / meditation is the order to that chaos which it prefers.


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## AlabamaRedneck (Jul 5, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Here's what you need to understand. When you've seen what I've seen, and heard what I've heard, you can't be quiet about it. If you just knew who i was, how much filth I've been in, and if you had any idea what God has forgiven me of, and how much he's transformed me from an angry, bitter, unfaithful, lying person into, by His grace only, a man of God, then you'd realize that I have to talk about this God, this Jesus, this love that has radically changed my life.
> 
> To ask me to remain silent about the most important part of my life- Why, you might as well ask the sun to stop shining, the rain to stop falling or the flowers to stop blooming. As long as there is breath in my body, nothing will stop me from talking about the Jesus who saved me and made me new.
> 
> -Craig Groeshchel


Well, you and I are two ships passing in the night.

I grew up a "religious fanatic", and have since become a "doubter of god". I respect your opinion, but I no longer share it. I am a serious doubter. And for GREAT reasons, I believe.

Stick with your convictions. I highly respect your opinion and boldness to state it and defend it. Even if I disagree with it. You go man. You go.


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## tyler.durden (Jul 5, 2013)

AlabamaRedneck said:


> Well, you and I are two ships passing in the night.
> 
> I grew up a "religious fanatic", and have since become a "doubter of god". I respect your opinion, but I no longer share it. I am a serious doubter. And for GREAT reasons, I believe.
> 
> Stick with your convictions. I highly respect your opinion and boldness to state it and defend it. Even if I disagree with it. You go man. You go.


Now that you have expressed your doubt of his dogma, I fear he is now going to throw a shit-ton of scripture at you. Prepare yourself, it gets tiresome...


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jul 6, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Now that you have expressed your doubt of his dogma, I fear he is now going to throw a shit-ton of scripture at you. Prepare yourself, it gets tiresome...


He seems to like scripture posting on Sundays,,itll hit you harder than the comic strip in the news paper.


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## AlabamaRedneck (Jul 6, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Now that you have expressed your doubt of his dogma, I fear he is now going to throw a shit-ton of scripture at you. Prepare yourself, it gets tiresome...


OK, maybe I made a mistake...bracing myself here...since tomorrow is Sunday...wish me luck in putting up with scripture...


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 8, 2013)

Once you realize we are already in hell, that you are already in hell, only then can you start to take the gradual steps toward the light, to climb to teetering stairs of hell towards salvation. 



but be careful along the way, because the closer you get, the more the devil attempts to waver you from enlightenment. 

Infinity surely exists, you are living it over and over again right now, given the illusion you are not in hell, forgetting every time, given chance after chance. 

Some guru's say, the biggest mistake you can ever make is to believe that you are alive... when in reality you are merely asleep in life's waiting room... 

This is all a dream and god is waiting for us to wake up, this one moment to just wake up... and everyone of us puts up our hands and says "weeellll, not just yet, i don't think i'm done yet, give me a little more time" but there is only one time, only now, and all of us must make the decision, and we do. Every, Single, Time.


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## dannyboy602 (Jul 9, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Some guru's say, the biggest mistake you can ever make is to believe that you are alive... when in reality you are merely asleep in life's waiting room...


i like that ...ima add it to my vocabulary.


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## guy incognito (Jul 10, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Not all prayers are God's will. I got drunk at the bar when i was underage, stepped onto the roof of a storm shelter, it opened up.. I fell in. Hit my back on a metal lip, now my pain reminds me not to do stupid stuff. I deserve it.
> 
> My prayers seemed to have helped my back pain immensely.
> They certainly have helped repair my mind.


That's crazy. I tweaked my back and my knee. I didn't pray at all and they feel a lot better now. Hmm.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 11, 2013)

guy incognito said:


> That's crazy. I tweaked my back and my knee. I didn't pray at all and they feel a lot better now. Hmm.


And hmm! That guy with one arm who was a devout Christian all his life who prayed for another arm didn't get it either.. He told me "God said that by giving me another arm, it would dispel the requirement of faith! He not only gave me the answer I needed but he debunked the fallacy of "God can't heal amputees" all in one! Praise Jesus!"... 

Tards gonna tard..


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## guy incognito (Jul 11, 2013)

Well I actually prayed that that guy would not get a new arm.  Maybe god answered my prayer? Maybe god is as sick, twisted, and sadistic as me?


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jul 11, 2013)

God is all of the things you listed,he is human projection into a f$#ed off storyline afterall.


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## Rastafari InI (Jul 14, 2013)

Ok I just like to say agnostic atheism 

Seroiusly I don't get any of these people who worship a god, I just laugh and think how stupid. 
Even if I was illogical enough to come to the conclusion a god exists I would still never think to worship a god. Especially that fucker from the bible he's a bloody sadist who stones children, kills all gays. the list is too long for all his fucked sense of morality.

Relgious idiots say ah well we might be wrong but athiests are wrong aswel they don't have evidence, this is hilarious as the default position is to not believe without evidence, you DON'T need evidence to not believe that is ludicrous.
Just like if I was to say there's an invisible dragon that no one else knows about that fits in my pocket and talks to me when no one is there, I Stated this therefore I have to state the evidence and if I don't then just like with god the default position is not to believe.

And surely if god is peacefull and all knowing he wouldn't send me to hell for not believing in him without evidence, and well there is NO evidence, I mean he created us ( I dont believe this ) and should know how our logical brains work and that it would be normal to come to a conclusion he doesn't exist. Please search AGNOSTIC ATHIESM if you don't alreadly know what is means. this is the default position of believe regarding god. I don't think that is a opinion

If I created someone with the ability to not belive in me, provided no evidence to belive in me, then send that person to hell if they didn't believe me I would definatly be a monster by my morality.

How many of you religious folks have a different religion from your parents, I can say not many your all just sheep. Did you even look at other religions to see if they make more sense or did you just say well this one suits me and I'll just do what everyone else is, fools the lot of you.

Also it's funny how if you believe in god your a thiest yet every other theory and belief is ATHIESM shows how's close minding theist are. Athiests can and do believe in thousands of different theories on how the universe is here. 

So what would you rather be a thiest who believes with in a magical, omnipotent, all seeing god. Or a athiest who believes in every other theory possible and every single athiest I met doesn't claim to know how it the universe started but just deny the god theory unlike these ( all knowing ) thiests who all claim to know god exists without any evidence what so ever.

I don't claim to know how the universe started but just because I don't know doesn't mean I have to take wild guess and belive what sounds best ( all religious people ), default position is to not believe until proven.


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 14, 2013)

[video=youtube_share;AcO4TnrskE0]http://youtu.be/AcO4TnrskE0[/video]

"The true horror of religion is that it allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions what only lunatics could believe on their own.
If you believe that saying a few Latin words over your pancakes turns into the body of Elvis Presley you have lost your mind, but if you think more or less the same thing about a cracker and the body of Jesus you are just a catholic.
It is a very strange loving God who would make salvation depend on believing in him on that evidence." - Sam Harris


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## Kervork (Jul 14, 2013)

"But they for whom I am the supreme goal, who do all work renouncing self for me and meditate on me with single-hearted devotion, these I will swiftly rescue from death's vast sea, for their consciousness has entered into me."


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 14, 2013)

Kervork said:


> "But they for whom I am the supreme goal, who do all work renouncing self for me and meditate on me with single-hearted devotion, these I will swiftly rescue from death's vast sea, for their consciousness has entered into me."


One mass delusion is no better than another. Hinduism is not excluded.


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## Kervork (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah, them delusional hindus believing in a universe billions of years old that exploded out of nothing in a multiverse trillions of years old.


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## kpmarine (Jul 15, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Yeah, them delusional hindus believing in a universe billions of years old that exploded out of nothing in a multiverse trillions of years old.


Is that a direct quote?


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## Rastafari InI (Jul 15, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> [video=youtube_share;AcO4TnrskE0]http://youtu.be/AcO4TnrskE0[/video]
> 
> "The true horror of religion is that it allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions what only lunatics could believe on their own.
> If you believe that saying a few Latin words over your pancakes turns into the body of Elvis Presley you have lost your mind, but if you think more or less the same thing about a cracker and the body of Jesus you are just a catholic.
> It is a very strange loving God who would make salvation depend on believing in him on that evidence." - Sam Harris


I love this quote, I really don't understand when you have these people that think sane and logically then whenever it comes to religion or god common sense, science, morality and rational and logical judgements and decision making is just thrown out the window. Crazy if you ask me.


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 15, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Yeah, them delusional hindus believing in a universe billions of years old that exploded out of nothing in a multiverse trillions of years old.



....and the world is actually on the back of a giant tortoise, which is also on the back of a giant elephant..... seems so _plausible!_&#8203;


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## Kervork (Jul 15, 2013)

Show one reference of this in Hindu literature. You're just repeating crap which was ignorantly said about the Hindoos hundreds of years which has no basis in actual fact.


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## kpmarine (Jul 15, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Show one reference of this in Hindu literature. You're just repeating crap which was ignorantly said about the Hindoos hundreds of years which has no basis in actual fact.


Hinduism teaches that our planet was created by a god that popped out of a lotus flower in vishnu's belly button. It also teaches that the universe becomes a giant lake when it is destroyed, which vishnu floats in while riding a giant snake; until brahma pops out of his belly-button, of course. Face it, it's just as ridiculous as the rest of the religions.


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## guy incognito (Jul 15, 2013)

All the hindus I have known were vegetarian because of their religion. How gay is that?


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 15, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> ....and the world is actually on the back of a giant tortoise, which is also on the back of a giant elephant..... seems so _plausible!_&#8203;


...correct, not possible. Religious literalists get a laugh, too


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## Kervork (Jul 15, 2013)

So.. according to beef's wish poof. All religion has vanished and we live in a world of only science. Because he is still irritating and I no longer have to worry about the karma cause by killing him I decide to kill him by chopping him up inch by inch with a cleaver. 

So beef, give me a scientific reason why I should not kill you now that I don't have to worry about karma. Surely science can answer such a simple question as to why I should not kill beef boy.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 15, 2013)

Kervork said:


> So beef, give me a scientific reason why I should not kill you now that I don't have to worry about karma. Surely science can answer such a simple question as to why I should not kill beef boy.


Because killing people is wrong regardless of what you believe in


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 15, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Because killing people is wrong regardless of what you believe in


Because i too, was raised in a certain fashion, and i was taught that killing someone is wrong and bad. Therefor i would feel bad if i killed someone, so i'm not going to. 

Karma is as made up as the bible. Do and don't do things because they make you either feel good or feel bad. Don't do them because you think something good will happen to you or bad will happen to you, that rather seems a little, selfish.

You can live out your whole life doing nothing but good, and bad things will still happen. You can live out your life doing nothing but bad, and good things will still happen. Doesn't that clearly debunk the silly idea of karma right away?

Wishful thinking, that is exactly what karma is.


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 15, 2013)

Kervork said:


> So.. according to beef's wish poof. All religion has vanished and we live in a world of only science. Because he is still irritating and I no longer have to worry about the karma cause by killing him I decide to kill him by chopping him up inch by inch with a cleaver.
> 
> So beef, give me a scientific reason why I should not kill you now that I don't have to worry about karma. Surely science can answer such a simple question as to why I should not kill beef boy.



The *only *reason you don't kill people is because you're worried about what will happen to you in the afterlife? If you believe that, you're a sociopath.

I have a conscience. I feel empathy when I see people in situations that I wouldn't want to be in. I don't kill people because I wouldn't want them to do that to me, it would be a violation of my life, and doing it to someone else is a violation of theirs. 

[video=youtube_share;Hj9oB4zpHww]http://youtu.be/Hj9oB4zpHww[/video]


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

*"Because killing people is wrong regardless of what you believe in*"

*"Because i too, was raised in a certain fashion, and i was taught that killing someone is wrong and bad."
*
*"The only reason you don't kill people is because you're worried about what will happen to you in the afterlife? If you believe that, you're a sociopath."*

Ahh... and exactly why is it wrong? 

Come on Beefy boy. Tell us why science says killing is wrong. 

"*I have a conscience. I feel empathy when I see people in situations that I wouldn't want to be in."
*
Where did you get that empathy? Is it from science?

Or is it the cultural residue of a religion which has been telling you for 2500 years that killing is bad?

The Aztecs had a religion which told them killing was good. They marched 10,000 prisoners up the pyramids and cut their hearts out to appease their gods. 

Now, after countless millions dead we have a world of religions left that tell us killing is bad*. *Is that what you are arguing against? 
*
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.*

Yes, this is the horror of religion. A system which expouses such things as being kind to each other, being generous to the poor, to love something other than yourself, to not kill and to not steal. 

It does not matter whether Kirshna or Jesus existed if it inspires us to act just a little bit better. In a world without religion where is the inspiration? How will science tell us to be kind to each other? 

Religion and Religious experience are intertwined. They cultivate each other and without one, the other would not exist. This is why religious experience has been built into our very physiology. To help us evolve. To show us what we can become. Religion is not an answer, it is a door to a world hopefully slightly better than this one. Why would you not want someone to turn the other cheek? Why are you not thankful that religion is there to inspire them to be better and perhaps when it comes down to it, to forgive and not kill you?


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Ahh... and exactly why is it wrong?


Killing someone is wrong because it takes away their right to life._ "It's a hell of a thing, taking away a mans life, everything he has, everything he's ever gonna have.."_



Kervork said:


> Tell us why science says killing is wrong.


Science says killing is wrong because you don't have control over someone else's body



Kervork said:


> Where did you get that empathy? Is it from science?


We got it through a biological process. Science simply explains that process.



Kervork said:


> Or is it the cultural residue of a religion which has been telling you for 2500 years that killing is bad?


Obviously not, as organized religion doesn't actually say killing is bad, quite the opposite actually! Killing is good! God requires you to kill non believers, agnostics, gypsies, homosexuals, adulterers, those that work on the Sabbath, those men that shave their beards, etc.. You should read the Bible!



Kervork said:


> The Aztecs had a religion which told them killing was good. They marched 10,000 prisoners up the pyramids and cut their hearts out to appease their gods.
> 
> Now, after countless millions dead we have a world of religions left that tell us killing is bad*. *Is that what you are arguing against?


None of the three main Abrahamic religions condemn killing as you claim. They ALL condone it, some even require it. So wtf are you talking about?


Kervork said:


> In a world without religion where is the inspiration? How will science tell us to be kind to each other?



Because you can't understand a civilized world without religion doesn't mean one couldn't exist. If you rely on religion to be a good person, the irony is, you're actually a horrible person. Being good means being good regardless of the circumstances. If it meant going to your idiotic version of Hell to be good to another human being instead of shitty, I would still be good, consequences be damned. THAT is what the fuck being good is. When you're "good" to impress your imaginary friend just to get into his clubhouse, you might as well have just cheat on the test, lied about it, and when you got caught for cheating, give up your friend who gave you the notes to take a lesser punishment.. 

Your fake 'goodness' is worse than a shitty guy who admits it, and you're naive to think the omnipotent God you supposedly believe in wouldn't know that...


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 16, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Because i too, was raised in a certain fashion, and i was taught that killing someone is wrong and bad. Therefor i would feel bad if i killed someone, so i'm not going to.
> 
> Karma is as made up as the bible. Do and don't do things because they make you either feel good or feel bad. Don't do them because you think something good will happen to you or bad will happen to you, that rather seems a little, selfish.
> 
> ...



...karma is described as spanning lifetimes. It is also described as cause and effect. Causality

...I was walking down a busy street one time and this guy was sitting on the ground with a cup asking for spare change. I had none to give, but would have if I did. When I walked by him he said 'duuuude, kaaaaarma'.

...there's two ways to look at that statement. Either I was at risk of karma for not giving him any change; or he was telling me to beware of his situation..."duuuude, kaaaarma"


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 16, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> None of the three main Abrahamic religions condemn killing as you claim. They ALL condone it, some even require it. So wtf are you talking about?


...Pad, I'll have to disagree on that. A book that condones killing (in the physical sense) wouldn't be on any shelves. The 'killing' described relates to the ego. You can't read a sentence in a book of that sort and stop at that. Imagine if that's what watching a modern movie would be like. As soon as someone gets fckd up in a film we'd all have to gasp and leave the theatre?


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> *"Because killing people is wrong regardless of what you believe in*"
> 
> *"Because i too, was raised in a certain fashion, and i was taught that killing someone is wrong and bad."
> *
> ...


You obviously didn't watch the video. It's 100% about how science can answer moral questions. *Before *you ask stupid questions, at least attempt to extrapolate some information from what we're telling you. There's no point in even responding to you if you don't read what we write. The answers have already been given to you, what you do with them is up to you. 



> "*I have a conscience. I feel empathy when I see people in situations that I wouldn't want to be in."
> 
> *
> Where did you get that empathy? Is it from science?


Do you understand what science is? It's a process for testing. That's all. Science doesn't 'give us things'. However, it can explain the things we have, or might get. The reason we behave the way we do is the result of evolution, a separate process that can be explained by science, but science doesn't 'steer' evolution in any direction. (Unless we're bio-engineering things like GMO's) It might be possible in the future to produce humans that have heightened or deadened reactions to things like killing by modifying their brains, but that's all just hearsay. 



> Or is it the cultural residue of a religion which has been telling you for 2500 years that killing is bad?


No. We've had morality longer than 2500 years, humans have been pack creatures....forever. Before religion people didn't run around killing each other willy-nilly, just like Chimps and Bonobo's don't just randomly off one another. There is social order, maybe it's because of Chimp-Jesus.... lol Probably not...



> The Aztecs had a religion which told them killing was good. They marched 10,000 prisoners up the pyramids and cut their hearts out to appease their gods.
> 
> Now, after countless millions dead we have a world of religions left that tell us killing is bad*. *Is that what you are arguing against?


Christians massacred millions of people during the crusades and the inquisition. 

"Christians had more opportunity for violence than any other religious group on earth, and it is therefore unsurprising that, from a sheer numbers perspective, they have been responsible for the most acts of warlike aggression than any other. It is true that Jesus himself never engaged in violent action, but again, this seems to be an issue of opportunity rather than moral repulsion to violence: he was never in a position of political power and was in fact killed by the authorities. But, according to the Biblical narrative, Jesus will return to earth as a conquering warrior king, flanked by a massive army of earthly and heavenly beasts. He will then kill all his enemies.

The early Church was _not_ pacifist as many modern-day Christians claim. Instead, the early Church fathers enlisted themselves as prayer warriors for the imperial Roman armies. The very minute Christianity rose to power with the conversion of the Roman Emperor Constantine, war in the service of empire and religion was adopted wholesale. Once persecuted by pagans, Christians now set out to destroy paganism in Europe. They sent forth armies to conquer new lands in the name of Christ. Eventually, almost all of Africa, Australia, Europe, South and North America&#8211;as well as huge swaths of land in Asia&#8211;came under the boots of Christian soldiers. Even today, the Religious Right in the U.S. leads the country down the path of war."

On to Buddhists!

This remark reveals a profound ignorance of history. Stereotypes notwithstanding, the Buddhist tradition is no stranger to violence. This little known story is retold by Professors Michael Jerryson and Mark Juergensmeyer in the book _Buddhist Warfare_. Jerryson writes:
Violence is found in all religious traditions, and Buddhism is no exception. This may surprise those who think of Buddhism as a religion based solely on peace. Indeed, one of the principal reasons for producing this book was to address such a misconception. Within the various Buddhist traditions (which Trevor Ling describes as &#8220;Buddhisms&#8221, there is a long history of violence. Since the inception of Buddhist traditions 2,500 years ago, there have been numerous individual and structural cases of prolonged Buddhist violence. [1]
​Prof. Jerryson writes in Monks With Guns: Discovering Buddhist Violence of armed Buddhist monks in Thailand. He notes that the West&#8217;s romantic view of Buddhism

Shield an extensive and historical dimension to Buddhist traditions: violence. Armed Buddhist monks in Thailand are not an exception to the rule; they are contemporary examples of a long historical precedence. For centuries monks have been at the helm, or armed in the ranks, of wars. How could this be the case? But more importantly, why did I (and many others) hold the belief that _Buddhism=Peace_ (and that other religions, such as Islam, are more prone to violence)?

​
He then answers his own question:
*
Buddhist Propaganda*
It was then that I realized that I was a consumer of a very successful form of propaganda. Since the early 1900s, Buddhist monastic intellectuals such as Walpola Rahula, D. T. Suzuki, and Tenzin Gyatso, the Fourteenth Dalai Lama, have labored to raise Western awareness of their cultures and traditions. In doing so, they presented specific aspects of their Buddhist traditions while leaving out others.*
General conceptions of a basic Buddhist ethics broadly conceived as unqualified pacifism are problematic. Compassionate violence is at the very heart of the sensibility of this sutra.* Buddhist kings had sophisticated and practical conceptual resources to support the use of force&#8230;The only killing compatible with Buddhist ethics is killing with compassion. Moreover, if a king makes war or tortures with compassionate intentions, even those acts can result in the accumulation of vast karmic merit.​
​*



A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Click to expand...

*


> Yes, this is the horror of religion. A system which expouses such things as being kind to each other, being generous to the poor, to love something other than yourself, to not kill and to not steal.
> 
> It does not matter whether Kirshna or Jesus existed if it inspires us to act just a little bit better. In a world without religion where is the inspiration? How will science tell us to be kind to each other?


Can you not objectively look at two worlds - one where there's violence, rape, murder, and every possible deplorable act happening, and one where's it's peaceful and pleasant and people are generally well behaved and decide which is better? Is that what you're telling me? Can you not *objectively* look at those two scenarios and decide, without falling back on religion, which one of those two worlds is 'better' to live in? I think you can.

This isn't a trick question, assuming you lived by yourself, since birth, you've never even heard about God, Jesus, or Krishna. No concept of the supernatural *WHATSOEVER*. If someone showed you the utopia where people are living happily, and then the death and violence filled second world, which world would you choose to live in? It's not a hard choice, and it certainly doesn't require _*god *_to *know *that living peacefully is better than living in constant fear. 



> Religion and Religious experience are intertwined. They cultivate each other and without one, the other would not exist. This is why religious experience has been built into our very physiology.


More like humans have an intrinsic property of wanting to figure things out. When we don't have an answer, we make one up. *BAM! Religion. 
*
Lightning? Must be someone throwing it. Flood? Must have pissed god off. Crops didn't grow? Must have been mixing the milk and meat plates... etc., etc., ad nauseum.



> To help us evolve. To show us what we can become. Religion is not an answer, it is a door to a world hopefully slightly better than this one. Why would you not want someone to turn the other cheek? Why are you not thankful that religion is there to inspire them to be better and perhaps when it comes down to it, to forgive and not kill you?


Religion is probably the most selfish thing in existence. 

Don't kill! - Not because you're taking away the sanctity of someones life, but because god will punish *you *in the afterlife. It's all about *you, *and what *you *have coming to you. 

Make sure you have good Karma! - Not because doing good things is good, in and of itself, but because good Karma gets *you* rewards in the next life. Again, it's all about *you, *and what *you *get for being good. 

Present to me, a divine command from god or holy scripture, that commands that you do something good - but there's no punishment if you don't do it, and there's no reward if you do. Show me that part of religion, where people do things with absolutely zero reward or deterrent. 
_*
Religion isn't good, it scares people or bribes people into submission. Anything good done by religion could be done without religion. 
All the atrocities created by religion could ONLY be created by religion. *_


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## NietzscheKeen (Jul 16, 2013)

Wow! Nice post! Very well put. I'm a moral nihilist/emotivist, but for the longest time I was a moral objectivist so I can still agree with a lot of what you said; big fan of _The Moral Landscape._



> You obviously didn't watch the video. It's 100% about how science can answer moral questions.


I will have to go back and watch the video to which you refer because we might be able to have an interesting discussion regarding ethics; it would certainly be more productive than the arguments you find yourself in much of the time, lol. 

I did and still do disagree with Hume' Law. I admit, I avoided Hume (and Hegel) as much as I could while in university, so I may not actually understand Hume's argument.

Edit: LOL, the video WAS Sam Harris.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 16, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> When I walked by him he said 'duuuude, kaaaaarma'.


Or maybe he's used that one before, and taking into consideration how superstitious people can be, it's worked time and time again, as people think about the words he used, turn around, and give him money for uttering a few simple superstitious words.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Ahh... and exactly why is it wrong?


Killing is neither right, nor wrong... what is right and wrong is completely subjective, it depends on how you personally understand it, and feel about it. If you were born into a society where killing was good, you would probably be ok with it. We are born into a society where killing people is seen as bad, so most of us aren't ok with it. Also, it is a major deterrent, knowing that in America you will probably spend the rest of your life in a cage if you do kill someone. 

Personally, i like to go by this philosophy, "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you/ Do not do onto others as you would not have them do to you".

Not only has the society i grew up in taught me that killing is wrong, but i grew up with a sense of empathy and i don't like causing pain to other animals, because i have experienced pain, i would rather not inflict it onto someone else. I have experienced the loss of a loved one, and i would do my best to make sure no one else has to feel that way. 

Like i said before, it seems a little selfish and egotistical to parade around life only doing things because you believe that if you do good, good will happen and if you do bad, bad will happen. 

Why not parade through life doing good because you want to do good for no other reason than it making you feel good, without expecting anything in return? And taking a moral responsibility for your own actions (good and bad)?

_Good people are going to do good, bad people are going to do bad, and everybody makes mistakes. It's up to US as individuals and a society to make sure we are held responsible for the things we say and actions we take... not some made up magical spirit energy. 

_


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## guy incognito (Jul 16, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Killing is neither right, nor wrong... what is right and wrong is completely objective, it depends on how you personally understand it, and feel about it. If you were born into a society where killing was good, you would probably be ok with it. We are born into a society where killing people is seen as bad, so most of us aren't ok with it.
> 
> Personally, i like to go by this philosophy, "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you/ Do not do onto others as you would not have them do to you".
> 
> ...


I think it goes beyond that. I grew up in a society that says white people are better than black people (or niggers as they are often called), and being gay is just flat out wrong to the point that it is ok to direct hate their way. Even though the household I lived in, and the town I grew up in embraced those values and taught them to me, I knew it was wrong as a child. Even with the brain of a child I was able to determine right from wrong. I think most other people are too. It is society and religion that then indoctrinate and condition people to the point that they accept whatever is going on as normal.


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 16, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Or maybe he's used that one before, and taking into consideration how superstitious people can be, it's worked time and time again, as people think about the words he used, turn around, and give him money for uttering a few simple superstitious words.


...k, that's the obvious part. We're discussing the background


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## H R Puff N Stuff (Jul 16, 2013)

by doing good deeds and being kind to your fellow man/woman


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## guy incognito (Jul 16, 2013)

And to further that thought: 

It takes a warped set of beliefs to make killing right. It would be very hard to convince a normal rational person that killing and sacrificing humans is morally right without invoking some kind of irrational belief (like god) into the mix. But if you literally believe in god, and he commands the sacrifice...


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 16, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Killing is neither right, nor wrong... what is right and wrong is completely subjective, it depends on how you personally understand it, and feel about it. If you were born into a society where killing was good, you would probably be ok with it.


This would undermine millions of years of evolution. Humans are social creatures because of our genetics. Even in tribal societies where traits like extreme suspicion, and greed/manipulation and thought of as virtues, they still don't just randomly kill. There is always a boundary or sorts; a 'you can't kill me unless....', what follows 'unless' varies from society to society, but there's always some boundary that prevents total anarchy for the most part. There are parts of the world that are virtually lawless, but even there, people still live together in communities and abide by social contracts. 



> We are born into a society where killing people is seen as bad, so most of us aren't ok with it. Also, it is a major deterrent, knowing that in America you will probably spend the rest of your life in a cage if you do kill someone.


Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but all societies have had some sort of order, so we have nothing to base this society off of. If we believe our desire to live together in a social society is at all dependent on our DNA and biological funsctions, than in order to change our nature in context to how we value our social contracts, we would have to change our DNA as well. Nature or nurture?



> Personally, i like to go by this philosophy, "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you/ Do not do onto others as you would not have them do to you".


Yeah, that's one I generally follow too. 



> Not only has the society i grew up in taught me that killing is wrong, but i grew up with a sense of empathy and i don't like causing pain to other animals, because i have experienced pain, i would rather not inflict it onto someone else. I have experienced the loss of a loved one, and i would do my best to make sure no one else has to feel that way.
> 
> Like i said before, it seems a little selfish and egotistical to parade around life only doing things because you believe that if you do good, good will happen and if you do bad, bad will happen.
> 
> ...


RAmen, brother.


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 16, 2013)

I have a question for anyone who follows any religion;

If it came to pass tomorrow, that a new, verified text was found that was directly tied to your religion, e.g. a new chapter of the bible, Quran, or a new text of the Tipitaka, etc.; and it commanded all the followers of said religion to murder any non-believer without question, would you do it?


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## NietzscheKeen (Jul 16, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> I have a question for anyone who follows any religion;
> 
> If it came to pass tomorrow, that a new, verified text was found that was directly tied to your religion, e.g. a new chapter of the bible, Quran, or a new text of the Tipitaka, etc.; and it commanded all the followers of said religion to murder any non-believer without question, would you do it?


Not that it matters and not that anyone cares; I've got my answer ready, but I don't want to give any hints to anyone else that plans to answer.


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

*Science says killing is wrong because you don't have control over someone else's body* 

Science says no such thing. Now you're just making shit up about science. 

Shall we claim science is bad because the theories it had 200 years ago have been proven false?


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## kpmarine (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> *Shall we claim science is bad because the theories it had 200 years ago have been proven false?*


*

If science claimed to be infallible, then yes we would declare it bad. However, science is just a growing body of facts and evidence that is subject to change if we find conflicting information. Science isn't a dogma like religion. That's why scientific papers are subject to peer review, while religious texts claim to be infallible.*


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

So, lets see some of the wonderful things our moral science as brought us.

Nuclear weapons, each one bigger than the one before and several hundred thousand dead. Quite a few more with cancer.

New and improved Anthrax.

Eugenics

Experimentation on humans

Eperimentation on animals

Biologically engineered weapons.

Countless chemical weapons.

A hole in the ozonosphere.

New and improved chemical poisons.

90+ million dead in the past 100 years as a result of science improving weapons. 

It would appear that there are no ethical limits to what scientists create. Lately science has been killing far more people than religion.


 

*I have a question for anyone who follows any religion;

If it came to pass tomorrow, that a new, verified text was found that was directly tied to your religion, e.g. a new chapter of the bible, Quran, or a new text of the Tipitaka, etc.; and it commanded all the followers of said religion to murder any non-believer without question, would you do it?*

I seriously doubt there would be such a directive in the teachings of Buddha. I doubt Jesus said anything like that either. Mohammed maybe. Krishna, definately not. Since that one thing would conflict with everything else they taught I would have to assume they were just having a bad day and ignore it.


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

Science corrects itself. What was believed once and proved to be wrong is changed. We accept that, we don't abandon science because of a mistake it made 200 years ago. 

If we apply this to christianity then we can pretty much throw out the old testament. Jesus showed up as the son of god and essentially said, all that shit's wrong, just be nice to each other.

Now, if you want to lump the spanish inquisition with the teachings of jesus then you must lump the eugenicists with the teachings of science. 

Some of you have strange ideas. You think that christians are good only because they want to get into heaven. The ones I have met don't seem to have this attitude. If you attempt to apply this same logic to Buddhists or Hindus then it makes even less sense since they don't believe in a heaven to speak of. I see not difference in intolerism coming from the religion and that coming from the athiests. Intolerance is intolerance. 

I find it quite funny that I get more intolerance from people here than I do from the catholic church. Is this what we have to look forward to from atheism?


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## guy incognito (Jul 16, 2013)

You forgot soap, antibiotics, telescopes, the theory of evolution,... the list is endless.


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## guy incognito (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Science corrects itself. What was believed once and proved to be wrong is changed. We accept that, we don't abandon science because of a mistake it made 200 years ago.
> 
> If we apply this to christianity then we can pretty much throw out the old testament. Jesus showed up as the son of god and essentially said, all that shit's wrong, just be nice to each other.
> 
> ...


I will never tolerate willful ignorance. I don't think anyone else should either.


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## cannabineer (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Nuclear weapons, each one bigger than the one before and several hundred thousand dead. Quite a few more with cancer.


Can you back this up? Prompt casualties of the two warshots are estimated at 105 thousand. Including delayed deaths (radiation sickness, then cancers) about doubles this. Two is not several. cn

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp10.shtml


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

"Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000&#8211;166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000&#8211;80,000 in Nagasaki"

Wikipedia. 

We can assume that the 2000 something nuclear tests wound up giving more people cancer than our governments are willing to admit due to their liability costs. 

"A 2002 U.S. Centers for Disease Control report calculated that fallout caused 15,000 U.S. cancer deaths, a figure some believed was a gross underestimate. The following year, a blue ribbon European panel reported 61,600,000 cancer deaths worldwide from fallout."

Huffington Post


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## guy incognito (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Huffington Post


LOL. About as reliable as the bible.


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

*I will never tolerate willful ignorance. I don't think anyone else should either.*

I would say denying that hundreds of above ground tests resulted in tens of thousands or more deaths is a case of willful ignorance. 

Back in the day government scientists were telling us that radiation was good for us.

Some more research by scientists...

Some of the classified government experiments included:
* Exposing more than 100 Alaskan villagers to radioactive iodine during the 1960s.
* Feeding 49 retarded and institutionalised teenagers radioactive iron and calcium in their cereal during the years 1946-1954.
* Exposing about 800 pregnant women in the late 1940s to radioactive iron to determine the effect on the fetus.
* Injecting 7 newborns (six were Black) with radioactive iodine.
* Exposing the testicles of more than 100 prisoners to cancer-causing doses of radiation. This experimentation continued into the early 1970s.
* Exposing almost 200 cancer patients to high levels of radiation from cesium and cobalt. The AEC finally stopped this experiment in 1974.
* Administering radioactive material to psychiatric patients in San Francisco and to prisoners in San Quentin.
* Administering massive doses of full body radiation to cancer patients hospitalised at the General Hospital in Cincinnati, Baylor College in Houston, Memorial Sloan-Kettering in New York City, and the US Naval Hospital in Bethesda, during the 1950s and 1960s. The experiment provided data to the military concerning how a nuclear attack might affect its troops.
* Exposing 29 patients, some with rheumatoid arthritis, to total body irradiation (100-300 rad dose) to obtain data for the military. This was conducted at the University of California Hospital in San Francisco*.


So, this is the morality and ethics science provides us? Injecting babies with radiation. God forbid you're black and a scientist gets ahold of you. 
*


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

Some more fine examples of morality in scientific research.

Yet here I have people telling me that science can provide us with a moral framework. Is this the morality of science? To use humans as ginuea pigs and infect them with diseases, inject them with radiation?
[h=1](1833)[/h]Dr. William Beaumont, an army surgeon physician, pioneers gastric medicine with his study of a patient with a permanently open gunshot wound to the abdomen and writes a human medical experimentation code that asserts the importance of experimental treatments, but also lists requirements stipulating that human subjects must give voluntary, informed consent and be able to end the experiment when they want. Beaumont's Code lists verbal, rather than just written, consent as permissible (Berdon). [h=1](1845)[/h](1845 - 1849) J. Marion Sims, later hailed as the "father of gynecology," performs medical experiments on enslaved African women without anesthesia. These women would usually die of infection soon after surgery. Based on his belief that the movement of newborns' skull bones during protracted births causes trismus, he also uses a shoemaker's awl, a pointed tool shoemakers use to make holes in leather, to practice moving the skull bones of babies born to enslaved mothers (Brinker). [h=1](1895)[/h]New York pediatrician Henry Heiman infects a 4-year-old boy whom he calls "an idiot with chronic epilepsy" with gonorrhea as part of a medical experiment ("Human Experimentation: Before the Nazi Era and After"). [h=1](1896)[/h]Dr. Arthur Wentworth turns 29 children at Boston's Children's Hospital into human guinea pigs when he performs spinal taps on them, just to test whether the procedure is harmful (Sharav). [h=1](1900)[/h]U.S Army doctors working in the Philippines infect five Filipino prisoners with plague and withhold proper nutrition to create Beriberi in 29 prisoners; four test subjects die (Merritte, _et al._; Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.). Under commission from the U.S. surgeon general, Dr. Walter Reed goes to Cuba and uses 22 Spanish immigrant workers to prove that yellow fever is contracted through mosquito bites. Doing so, he introduces the practice of using healthy test subjects, and also the concept of a written contract to confirm informed consent of these subjects. While doing this study, Dr. Reed clearly tells the subjects that, though he will do everything he can to help them, they may die as a result of the experiment. He pays them $100 in gold for their participation, plus $100 extra if they contract yellow fever (Berdon, Sharav). 
[h=1](1906)[/h]Harvard professor Dr. Richard Strong infects prisoners in the Philippines with cholera to study the disease; 13 of them die. He compensates survivors with cigars and cigarettes. During the Nuremberg Trials, Nazi doctors cite this study to justify their own medical experiments (Greger, Sharav). [h=1](1911)[/h]Dr. Hideyo Noguchi of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research publishes data on injecting an inactive syphilis preparation into the skin of 146 hospital patients and normal children in an attempt to develop a skin test for syphilis. Later, in 1913, several of these children's parents sue Dr. Noguchi for allegedly infecting their children with syphilis ("Reviews and Notes: History of Medicine: Subjected to Science: Human Experimentation in America before the Second World War"). [h=1](1913)[/h]Medical experimenters "test" 15 children at the children's home St. Vincent's House in Philadelphia with tuberculin, resulting in permanent blindness in some of the children. Though the Pennsylvania House of Representatives records the incident, the researchers are not punished for the experiments ("Human Experimentation: Before the Nazi Era and After"). [h=1](1915)[/h]Dr. Joseph Goldberger, under order of the U.S. Public Health Office, produces Pellagra, a debilitating disease that affects the central nervous system, in 12 Mississippi inmates to try to find a cure for the disease. One test subject later says that he had been through "a thousand hells." In 1935, after millions die from the disease, the director of the U.S Public Health Office would finally admit that officials had known that it was caused by a niacin deficiency for some time, but did nothing about it because it mostly affected poor African-Americans. During the Nuremberg Trials, Nazi doctors used this study to try to justify their medical experiments on concentration camp inmates (Greger; Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.). [h=1](191[/h]In response to the Germans' use of chemical weapons during World War I, President Wilson creates the Chemical Warfare Service (CWS) as a branch of the U.S. Army. Twenty-four years later, in 1942, the CWS would begin performing mustard gas and lewisite experiments on over 4,000 members of the armed forces (Global Security, Goliszek). [h=1](1919)[/h](1919 - 1922) Researchers perform testicular transplant experiments on inmates at San Quentin State Prison in California, inserting the testicles of recently executed inmates and goats into the abdomens and scrotums of living prisoners (Greger). [h=1](1931)[/h]Cornelius Rhoads, a pathologist from the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research, purposely infects human test subjects in Puerto Rico with cancer cells; 13 of them die. Though a Puerto Rican doctor later discovers that Rhoads purposely covered up some of details of his experiment and Rhoads himself gives a written testimony stating he believes that all Puerto Ricans should be killed, he later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission, where he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients (Sharav; Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.). (1931 - 1933) Mental patients at Elgin State Hospital in Illinois are injected with radium-266 as an experimental therapy for mental illness (Goliszek). 
[h=1](1932)[/h](1932-1972) The U.S. Public Health Service in Tuskegee, Ala. diagnoses 400 poor, black sharecroppers with syphilis but never tells them of their illness nor treats them; instead researchers use the men as human guinea pigs to follow the symptoms and progression of the disease. They all eventually die from syphilis and their families are never told that they could have been treated (Goliszek, University of Virginia Health System Health Sciences Library). [h=1](1937)[/h]Scientists at Cornell University Medical School publish an angina drug study that uses both placebo and blind assessment techniques on human test subjects. They discover that the subjects given the placebo experienced more of an improvement in symptoms than those who were given the actual drug. This is first account of the placebo effect published in the United States ("Placebo Effect"). [h=1](1939)[/h]In order to test his theory on the roots of stuttering, prominent speech pathologist Dr. Wendell Johnson performs his famous "Monster Experiment" on 22 children at the Iowa Soldiers' Orphans' Home in Davenport. Dr. Johnson and his graduate students put the children under intense psychological pressure, causing them to switch from speaking normally to stuttering heavily. At the time, some of the students reportedly warn Dr. Johnson that, "in the aftermath of World War II, observers might draw comparisons to Nazi experiments on human subjects, which could destroy his career" (Alliance for Human Research Protection). [h=1](1941)[/h]Dr. William C. Black infects a 12-month-old baby with herpes as part of a medical experiment. At the time, the editor of the _Journal of Experimental Medicine_, Francis Payton Rous, calls it "an abuse of power, an infringement of the rights of an individual, and not excusable because the illness which followed had implications for science" (Sharav). An article in a 1941 issue of _Archives of Pediatrics_ describes medical studies of the severe gum disease Vincent's angina in which doctors transmit the disease from sick children to healthy children with oral swabs (Goliszek). 
Drs. Francis and Salk and other researchers at the University of Michigan spray large amounts of wild influenza virus directly into the nasal passages of "volunteers" from mental institutions in Michigan. The test subjects develop influenza within a very short period of time (Meiklejohn). 
Researchers give 800 poverty-stricken pregnant women at a Vanderbilt University prenatal clinic "cocktails" including radioactive iron in order to determine the iron requirements of pregnant women (Pacchioli). 
[h=1](1942)[/h]The United States creates Fort Detrick, a 92-acre facility, employing nearly 500 scientists working to create biological weapons and develop defensive measures against them. Fort Detrick's main objectives include investigating whether diseases are transmitted by inhalation, digestion or through skin absorption; of course, these biological warfare experiments heavily relied on the use of human subjects (Goliszek). U.S. Army and Navy doctors infect 400 prison inmates in Chicago with malaria to study the disease and hopefully develop a treatment for it. The prisoners are told that they are helping the war effort, but not that they are going to be infected with malaria. During Nuremberg Trials, Nazi doctors later cite this American study to defend their own medical experiments in concentration camps like Auschwitz (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.). 
The Chemical Warfare Service begins mustard gas and lewisite experiments on 4,000 members of the U.S. military. Some test subjects don't realize they are volunteering for chemical exposure experiments, like 17-year-old Nathan Schnurman, who in 1944 thinks he is only volunteering to test "U.S. Navy summer clothes" (Goliszek). 
In an experiment sponsored by the U.S. Navy, Harvard biochemist Edward Cohn injects 64 inmates of Massachusetts state prisons with cow's blood (Sharav). 
Merck Pharmaceuticals President George Merck is named director of the War Research Service (WRS), an agency designed to oversee the establishment of a biological warfare program (Goliszek). 
[h=1](1943)[/h]In order to "study the effect of frigid temperature on mental disorders," researchers at University of Cincinnati Hospital keep 16 mentally disabled patients in refrigerated cabinets for 120 hours at 30 degrees Fahrenheit (Sharav). [h=1](1944)[/h]As part of the Manhattan Project that would eventually create the atomic bomb, researchers inject 4.7 micrograms of plutonium into soldiers at the Oak Ridge facility, 20 miles west of Knoxville, Tenn. ("Manhattan Project: Oak Ridge"). Captain A. W. Frisch, an experienced microbiologist, begins experiments on four volunteers from the state prison at Dearborn, Mich., inoculating prisoners with hepatitis-infected specimens obtained in North Africa. One prisoner dies; two others develop hepatitis but live; the fourth develops symptoms but does not actually develop the disease (Meiklejohn). 
Laboratory workers at the University of Minnesota and University of Chicago inject human test subjects with phosphorus-32 to learn the metabolism of hemoglobin (Goliszek). 
(1944 - 1946) In order to quickly develop a cure for malaria -- a disease hindering Allied success in World War II -- University of Chicago Medical School professor Dr. Alf Alving infects psychotic patients at Illinois State Hospital with the disease through blood transfusions and then experiments malaria cures on them (Sharav). 
A captain in the medical corps addresses an April 1944 memo to Col. Stanford Warren, head of the Manhattan Project's Medical Section, expressing his concerns about atom bomb component fluoride's central nervous system (CNS) effects and asking for animal research to be done to determine the extent of these effects: "Clinical evidence suggests that uranium hexafluoride may have a rather marked central nervous system effect ... It seems most likely that the F [code for fluoride] component rather than the T [code for uranium] is the causative factor ... Since work with these compounds is essential, it will be necessary to know in advance what mental effects may occur after exposure." The following year, the Manhattan Project would begin human-based studies on fluoride's effects (Griffiths and Bryson). 
The Manhattan Project medical team, led by the now infamous University of Rochester radiologist Col. Safford Warren, injects plutonium into patients at the University's teaching hospital, Strong Memorial (Burton Report). 
[h=1](1945)[/h]Continuing the Manhattan Project, researchers inject plutonium into three patients at the University of Chicago's Billings Hospital (Sharav). The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence and the CIA begin Operation Paperclip, offering Nazi scientists immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top-secret government projects on aerodynamics and chemical warfare medicine in the United States ("Project Paperclip"). 
Researchers infect 800 prisoners in Atlanta with malaria to study the disease (Sharav). 
(1945 - 1955) In Newburgh, N.Y., researchers linked to the Manhattan Project begin the most extensive American study ever done on the health effects of fluoridating public drinking water (Griffiths and Bryson). 
[h=1](1946)[/h]Gen. Douglas MacArthur strikes a secret deal with Japanese physician Dr. Shiro Ishii to turn over 10,000 pages of information gathered from human experimentation in exchange for granting Ishii immunity from prosecution for the horrific experiments he performed on Chinese, Russian and American war prisoners, including performing vivisections on live human beings (Goliszek, Sharav). Male and female test subjects at Chicago's Argonne National Laboratories are given intravenous injections of arsenic-76 so that researchers can study how the human body absorbs, distributes and excretes arsenic (Goliszek). 
Continuing the Newburg study of 1945, the Manhattan Project commissions the University of Rochester to study fluoride's effects on animals and humans in a project codenamed "Program F." With the help of the New York State Health Department, Program F researchers secretly collect and analyze blood and tissue samples from Newburg residents. The studies are sponsored by the Atomic Energy Commission and take place at the University of Rochester Medical Center's Strong Memorial Hospital (Griffiths and Bryson). 
(1946 - 1947) University of Rochester researchers inject four male and two female human test subjects with uranium-234 and uranium-235 in dosages ranging from 6.4 to 70.7 micrograms per one kilogram of body weight in order to study how much uranium they could tolerate before their kidneys become damaged (Goliszek). 
Six male employees of a Chicago metallurgical laboratory are given water contaminated with plutonium-239 to drink so that researchers can learn how plutonium is absorbed into the digestive tract (Goliszek). 
Researchers begin using patients in VA hospitals as test subjects for human medical experiments, cleverly worded as "investigations" or "observations" in medical study reports to avoid negative connotations and bad publicity (Sharav). 
The American public finally learns of the biowarfare experiments being done at Fort Detrick from a report released by the War Department (Goliszek). 
(1946 - 1953) The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission sponsors studies in which researchers from Harvard Medical School, Massachusetts General Hospital and the Boston University School of Medicine feed mentally disabled students at Fernald State School Quaker Oats breakfast cereal spiked with radioactive tracers every morning so that nutritionists can study how preservatives move through the human body and if they block the absorption of vitamins and minerals. Later, MIT researchers conduct the same study at Wrentham State School (Sharav, Goliszek). 
Human test subjects are given one to four injections of arsenic-76 at the University of Chicago Department of Medicine. Researchers take tissue biopsies from the subjects before and after the injections (Goliszek). 
[h=1](1947)[/h]Col. E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) issues a top-secret document (707075) dated Jan. 8. In it, he writes that "certain radioactive substances are being prepared for intravenous administration to human subjects as a part of the work of the contract" (Goliszek). A secret AEC document dated April 17 reads, "It is desired that no document be released which refers to experiments with humans that might have an adverse reaction on public opinion or result in legal suits," revealing that the U.S. government was aware of the health risks its nuclear tests posed to military personnel conducting the tests or nearby civilians (Goliszek). 
The CIA begins studying LSD's potential as a weapon by using military and civilian test subjects for experiments without their consent or even knowledge. Eventually, these LSD studies will evolve into the MKULTRA program in 1953 (Sharav). 
(1947 - 1953) The U.S. Navy begins Project Chatter to identify and test so-called "truth serums," such as those used by the Soviet Union to interrogate spies. Mescaline and the central nervous system depressant scopolamine are among the many drugs tested on human subjects (Goliszek). 
[h=1](194[/h]Based on the secret studies performed on Newburgh, N.Y. residents beginning in 1945, Project F researchers publish a report in the August 1948 edition of the _Journal of the American Dental Association_, detailing fluoride's health dangers. The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) quickly censors it for "national security" reasons (Griffiths and Bryson). [h=1](1950)[/h](1950 - 1953) The CIA and later the Office of Scientific Intelligence begin Project Bluebird (renamed Project Artichoke in 1951) in order to find ways to "extract" information from CIA agents, control individuals "through special interrogation techniques," "enhance memory" and use "unconventional techniques, including hypnosis and drugs" for offensive measures (Goliszek). (1950 - 1953) The U.S. Army releases chemical clouds over six American and Canadian cities. Residents in Winnipeg, Canada, where a highly toxic chemical called cadmium is dropped, subsequently experience high rates of respiratory illnesses (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.). 
In order to determine how susceptible an American city could be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of _Bacillus globigii_ bacteria from ships over the San Francisco shoreline. According to monitoring devices situated throughout the city to test the extent of infection, the eight thousand residents of San Francisco inhale five thousand or more bacteria particles, many becoming sick with pneumonia-like symptoms (Goliszek). 
Dr. Joseph Strokes of the University of Pennsylvania infects 200 female prisoners with viral hepatitis to study the disease (Sharav). 
Doctors at the Cleveland City Hospital study changes in cerebral blood flow by injecting test subjects with spinal anesthesia, inserting needles in their jugular veins and brachial arteries, tilting their heads down and, after massive blood loss causes paralysis and fainting, measuring their blood pressure. They often perform this experiment multiple times on the same subject (Goliszek). 
Dr. D. Ewen Cameron, later of MKULTRA infamy due to his 1957 to1964 experiments on Canadians, publishes an article in the _British Journal of Physical Medicine_, in which he describes experiments that entail forcing schizophrenic patients at Manitoba's Brandon Mental Hospital to lie naked under 15- to 200-watt red lamps for up to eight hours per day. His other experiments include placing mental patients in an electric cage that overheats their internal body temperatures to 103 degrees Fahrenheit, and inducing comas by giving patients large injections of insulin (Goliszek). 
[h=1](1951)[/h]The U.S. Navy's Project Bluebird is renamed Project Artichoke and begins human medical experiments that test the effectiveness of LSD, sodium pentothal and hypnosis for the interrogative purposes described in Project Bluebird's objectives (1950) (Goliszek). The U.S. Army secretly contaminates the Norfolk Naval Supply Center in Virginia and Washington, D.C.'s National Airport with a strain of bacteria chosen because African-Americans were believed to be more susceptible to it than Caucasians. The experiment causes food poisoning, respiratory problems and blood poisoning (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.). 
(1951 - 1952) Researchers withhold insulin from diabetic patients for up to two days in order to observe the effects of diabetes; some test subjects go into diabetic comas (Goliszek). 
(1951 - 1956) Under contract with the Air Force's School of Aviation Medicine (SAM), the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston begins studying the effects of radiation on cancer patients -- many of them members of minority groups or indigents, according to sources -- in order to determine both radiation's ability to treat cancer and the possible long-term radiation effects of pilots flying nuclear-powered planes. The study lasts until 1956, involving 263 cancer patients. Beginning in 1953, the subjects are required to sign a waiver form, but it still does not meet the informed consent guidelines established by the Wilson memo released that year. The TBI studies themselves would continue at four different institutions -- Baylor University College of Medicine, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Institute for Cancer Research, the U.S. Naval Hospital in Bethesda and the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine -- until 1971 (U.S. Department of Energy, Goliszek). 
American, Canadian and British military and intelligence officials gather a small group of eminent psychologists to a secret meeting at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Montreal about Communist "thought-control techniques." They proposed a top-secret research program on behavior modification -- involving testing drugs, hypnosis, electroshock and lobotomies on humans (Barker). 
[h=1](1952)[/h]Military scientists use the Dugway Proving Ground -- which is located 87 miles southwest of Salt Lake City, Utah -- in a series of experiments to determine how _Brucella suis_ and _Brucella melitensis_ spread in human populations. Today, over a half-century later, some experts claim that we are all infected with these agents as a result of these experiments (Goliszek). In a U.S. Department of Denfense-sponsored experiment, Henry Blauer dies after he is injected with mescaline at Columbia University's New York State Psychiatric Institute (Sharav). 
At the famous Sloan-Kettering Institute, Chester M. Southam injects live cancer cells into prisoners at the Ohio State Prison to study the progression of the disease. Half of the prisoners in this National Institutes of Health-sponsored (NIH) study are black, awakening racial suspicions stemming from Tuskegee, which was also an NIH-sponsored study (Merritte, _et al._). 
[h=1](1953)[/h](1953 - 1970) The CIA begins project MKNAOMI to "stockpile incapacitating and lethal materials, to develop gadgetry for the disseminations of these materials, and to test the effects of certain drugs on animals and humans." As part of MKNAOMI, the CIA and the Special Operations Division of the Army Biological Laboratory at Fort Detrick try to develop two suicide pill alternatives to the standard cyanide suicide pill given to CIA agents and U-2 pilots. CIA agents and U-2 pilots are meant to take these pills when they find themselves in situations in which they (and all the information they hold in their brains) are in enemy hands. They also develop a "microbioinoculator" -- a device that agents can use to fire small darts coated with biological agents that can remain potent for weeks or even months. These darts can be fired through clothing and, most significantly, are undetectable during autopsy. Eventually, by the late 1960s, MKNAOMI enables the CIA to have a stockpile of biological toxins -- infectious viruses, paralytic shellfish toxin, lethal botulism toxin, snake venom and the severe skin disease-producing agent _Mircosporum gypseum_. Of course, the development of all of this "gadgetry" requires human experimentation (Goliszek). (1953 - 1974) CIA Director Allen Dulles authorizes the MKULTRA program to produce and test drugs and biological agents that the CIA could use for mind control and behavior modification. MKULTRA later becomes well known for its pioneering studies on LSD, which are often performed on prisoners or patrons of brothels set up and run by the CIA. The brothel experiments, known as "Operation Midnight Climax," feature two-way mirrors set up in the brothels so that CIA agents can observe LSD's effects on sexual behavior. Ironically, governmental figures sometimes slip LSD into each other's drinks as part of the program, resulting in the LSD psychosis-induced suicide of Dr. Frank Olson indirectly at the hands of MKULTRA's infamous key player Dr. Sidney Gottlieb. Of all the hundreds of human test subjects used during MKULTRA, only 14 are ever notified of the involvement and only one is ever compensated ($15,000). Most of the MKULTRA files are eventually destroyed in 1973 (Elliston; Merritte, _et al._; Barker). 
The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) sponsors iodine studies at the University of Iowa. In the first study, researchers give pregnant women 100 to 200 microcuries of iodine-131 and then study the women's aborted embryos in order to learn at what stage and to what extent radioactive iodine crosses the placental barrier. In the second study, researchers give 12 male and 13 female newborns under 36 hours old and weighing between 5.5 and 8.5 pounds iodine-131 either orally or via intramuscular injection, later measuring the concentration of iodine in the newborns' thyroid glands (Goliszek). 
Secretary of Defense Charles Wilson issues the Wilson memo, a top-secret document establishing the Nuremberg Code as Department of Defense policy on human experimentation. The Wilson memo requires voluntary, written consent from a human medical research subject after he or she has been informed of "the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment." It also insists that doctors only use experimental treatments when other methods have failed (Berdon). 
As part of an AEC study, researchers feed 28 healthy infants at the University of Nebraska College of Medicine iodine-131 through a gastric tube and then test concentration of iodine in the infants' thyroid glands 24 hours later (Goliszek). 
(1953 - 1957) Eleven patients at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston are injected with uranium as part of the Manhattan Project (Sharav). 
In an AEC-sponsored study at the University of Tennessee, researchers inject healthy two- to three-day-old newborns with approximately 60 rads of iodine-131 (Goliszek). 
Newborn Daniel Burton becomes blind when physicians at Brooklyn Doctors Hospital perform an experimental high oxygen treatment for Retrolental Fibroplasia, a retinal disorder affecting premature infants, on him and other premature babies. The physicians perform the experimental treatment despite earlier studies showing that high oxygen levels cause blindness. Testimony in _Burton v. Brooklyn Doctors Hospital_ (452 N.Y.S.2d875) later reveals that researchers continued to give Burton and other infants excess oxygen even after their eyes had swelled to dangerous levels (Goliszek, Sharav). 
The CIA begins Project MKDELTA to study the use of biochemicals "for harassment, discrediting and disabling purposes" (Goliszek). 
A 1953 article in _Clinical Science_ describes a medical experiment in which researchers purposely blister the abdomens of 41 children, ranging in age from eight to 14, with cantharide in order to study how severely the substance irritates the skin (Goliszek). 
The AEC performs a series of field tests known as "Green Run," dropping radiodine 131 and xenon 133 over the Hanford, Wash. site -- 500,000 acres encompassing three small towns (Hanford, White Bluffs and Richland) along the Columbia River (Sharav). 
In an AEC-sponsored study to learn whether radioactive iodine affects premature babies differently from full-term babies, researchers at Harper Hospital in Detroit give oral doses of iodine-131 to 65 premature and full-term infants weighing between 2.1 and 5.5 pounds (Goliszek). 
[h=1](1954)[/h]The CIA begins Project QKHILLTOP to study Chinese Communist Party brainwashing techniques and use them to further the CIA's own interrogative methods. Most experts speculate that the Cornell University Medical School Human Ecology Studies Program conducted Project QKHILLTOP's early experiments (Goliszek). (1954 - 1975) U.S. Air Force medical officers assigned to Fort Detrick's Chemical Corps Biological Laboratory begin Operation Whitecoat -- experiments involving exposing human test subjects to hepatitis A, plague, yellow fever, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, Rift Valley fever, rickettsia and intestinal microbes. These test subjects include 2,300 Seventh Day Adventist military personnel, who choose to become human guinea pigs rather than potentially kill others in combat. Only two of the 2,300 claim long-term medical complications from participating in the study ("Operation Whitecoat".) 
In a general memo to university researchers under contract with the military, the Surgeon General of the U.S. Army asserts the human experimentation guidelines -- including informed, written consent -- established in the classified Wilson memo (Goliszek). 
[h=1](1955)[/h]In U.S. Army-sponsored experiments performed at Tulane University, mental patients are given LSD and other drugs and then have electrodes implanted in their brain to measure the levels (Barker, "The Cold War Experiments"). (1955 - 1957) In order to learn how cold weather affects human physiology, researchers give a total of 200 doses of iodine-131, a radioactive tracer that concentrates almost immediately in the thyroid gland, to 85 healthy Eskimos and 17 Athapascan Indians living in Alaska. They study the tracer within the body by blood, thyroid tissue, urine and saliva samples from the test subjects. Due to the language barrier, no one tells the test subjects what is being done to them, so there is no informed consent (Goliszek). 
(1955 - 1965) As a result of their work with the CIA's mind control experiments in Project QKHILLTOP, Cornell neurologists Harold Wolff and Lawrence Hinkle begin the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology (later renamed the Human Ecology Fund) to study "man's relation to his social environment as perceived by him" (Goliszek). 
[h=1](1956)[/h](1956 - 1957) U.S. Army covert biological weapons researchers release mosquitoes infected with yellow fever and dengue fever over Savannah, Ga., and Avon Park, Fla., to test the insects' ability to carry disease. After each test, Army agents pose as public health officials to test victims for effects and take pictures of the unwitting test subjects. These experiments result in a high incidence of fevers, respiratory distress, stillbirths, encephalitis and typhoid among the two cities' residents, as well as several deaths (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.). [h=1](1957)[/h]The U.S. military conducts Operation Plumbbob at the Nevada Test Site, 65 miles northwest of Las Vegas. Operation Pumbbob consists of 29 nuclear detonations, eventually creating radiation expected to result in a total 32,000 cases of thyroid cancer among civilians in the area. Around 18,000 members of the U.S. military participate in Operation Pumbbob's Desert Rock VII and VIII, which are designed to see how the average foot soldier physiologically and mentally responds to a nuclear battlefield ("Operation Plumbbob", Goliszek). (1957 - 1964) As part of MKULTRA, the CIA pays McGill University Department of Psychiatry founder Dr. D. Ewen Cameron $69,000 to perform LSD studies and potentially lethal experiments on Canadians being treated for minor disorders like post-partum depression and anxiety at the Allan Memorial Institute, which houses the Psychiatry Department of the Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal. The CIA encourages Dr. Cameron to fully explore his "psychic driving" concept of correcting madness through completely erasing one's memory and rewriting the psyche. These "driving" experiments involve putting human test subjects into drug-, electroshock- and sensory deprivation-induced vegetative states for up to three months, and then playing tape loops of noise or simple repetitive statements for weeks or months in order to "rewrite" the "erased" psyche. Dr. Cameron also gives human test subjects paralytic drugs and electroconvulsive therapy 30 to 40 times, as part of his experiments. Most of Dr. Cameron's test subjects suffer permanent damage as a result of his work (Goliszek, "Donald Ewan Cameron"). 
In order to study how blood flows through children's brains, researchers at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia perform the following experiment on healthy children, ranging in age from three to 11: They insert needles into each child's femoral artery (thigh) and jugular vein (neck), bringing the blood down from the brain. Then, they force each child to inhale a special gas through a facemask. In their subsequent _Journal of Clinical Investigation_ article on this study, the researchers note that, in order to perform the experiment, they had to restrain some of the child test subjects by bandaging them to boards (Goliszek). 
[h=1](195[/h]Approximately 300 members of the U.S. Navy are exposed to radiation when the Navy destroyer _Mansfield_ detonates 30 nuclear bombs off the coasts of Pacific Islands during Operation Hardtack (Goliszek). The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) drops radioactive materials over Point Hope, Alaska, home to the Inupiats, in a field test known under the codename "Project Chariot" (Sharav). 
[h=1](1961)[/h]In response to the Nuremberg Trials, Yale psychologist Stanley Milgram begins his famous Obedience to Authority Study in order to answer his question "Could it be that (Adolf) Eichmann and his million accomplices in the Holocaust were just following orders? Could we call them all accomplices?" Male test subjects, ranging in age from 20 to 40 and coming from all education backgrounds, are told to give "learners" electric shocks for every wrong answer the learners give in response to word pair questions. In reality, the learners are actors and are not receiving electric shocks, but what matters is that the test subjects do not know that. Astoundingly, they keep on following orders and continue to administer increasingly high levels of "shocks," even after the actor learners show obvious physical pain ("Milgram Experiment"). [h=1](1962)[/h]Researchers at the Laurel Children's Center in Maryland test experimental acne antibiotics on children and continue their tests even after half of the young test subjects develop severe liver damage because of the experimental medication (Goliszek). The U.S. Army's Deseret Test Center begins Project 112. This includes SHAD (Shipboard Hazard and Defense), which exposes U.S. Navy and Army personnel to live toxins and chemical poisons in order to determine naval ships' vulnerability to chemical and biological weapons. Military personnel are not test subjects; conducting the tests exposes them. Many of these participants complain of negative health effects at the time and, decades later, suffer from severe medical problems as a result of their exposure (Goliszek, Veterans Health Administration). The FDA begins requiring that a new pharmaceutical undergo three human clinical trials before it will approve it. From 1962 to 1980, pharmaceutical companies satisfy this requirement by running Phase I trials, which determine a drug's toxicity, on prison inmates, giving them small amounts of cash for compensation (Sharav). 
[h=1](1963)[/h]Chester M. Southam, who injected Ohio State Prison inmates with live cancer cells in 1952, performs the same procedure on 22 senile, African-American female patients at the Brooklyn Jewish Chronic Disease Hospital in order to watch their immunological response. Southam tells the patients that they are receiving "some cells," but leaves out the fact that they are cancer cells. He claims he doesn't obtain informed consent from the patients because he does not want to frighten them by telling them what he is doing, but he nevertheless temporarily loses his medical license because of it. Ironically, he eventually becomes president of the American Cancer Society (Greger, Merritte, _et al._). Researchers at the University of Washington directly irradiate the testes of 232 prison inmates in order to determine radiation's effects on testicular function. When these inmates later leave prison and have children, at least four have babies born with birth defects. The exact number is unknown because researchers never follow up on the men to see the long-term effects of their experiment (Goliszek). 
In a National Institutes of Health-sponsored (NIH) study, a researcher transplants a chimpanzee's kidney into a human. The experiment fails (Sharav). 
(1963 - 1966) New York University researcher Saul Krugman promises parents with mentally disabled children definite enrollment into the Willowbrook State School in Staten Island, N.Y., a resident mental institution for mentally retarded children, in exchange for their signatures on a consent form for procedures presented as "vaccinations." In reality, the procedures involve deliberately infecting children with viral hepatitis by feeding them an extract made from the feces of infected patients, so that Krugman can study the course of viral hepatitis as well the effectiveness of a hepatitis vaccine (Hammer Breslow). 
(1963 - 1971) Leading endocrinologist Dr. Carl Heller gives 67 prison inmates at Oregon State Prison in Salem $5 per month and $25 per testicular tissue biopsy in compensation for allowing him to perform irradiation experiments on their testes. If they receive vasectomies at the end of the study, the prisoners are given an extra $100 (Sharav, Goliszek). 
Researchers inject a genetic compound called radioactive thymidine into the testicles of more than 100 Oregon State Penitentiary inmates to learn whether sperm production is affected by exposure to steroid hormones (Greger). 
In a study published in _Pediatrics_, researchers at the University of California's Department of Pediatrics use 113 newborns ranging in age from one hour to three days old in a series of experiments used to study changes in blood pressure and blood flow. In one study, doctors insert a catheter through the newborns' umbilical arteries and into their aortas and then immerse the newborns' feet in ice water while recording aortic pressure. In another experiment, doctors strap 50 newborns to a circumcision board, tilt the table so that all the blood rushes to their heads and then measure their blood pressure (Goliszek). 
[h=1](1964)[/h](1964 - 196 The U.S. Army pays $386,486 (the largest sum ever paid for human experimentation) to University of Pennsylvania Professors Albert Kligman and Herbert W. Copelan to run medical experiments on 320 inmates of Holmesburg Prison to determine the effectiveness of seven mind-altering drugs. The researchers' objective is to determine the minimum effective dose of each drug needed to disable 50 percent of any given population (MED-50). Though Professors Kligman and Copelan claim that they are unaware of any long-term effects the mind-altering agents might have on prisoners, documents revealed later would prove otherwise (Kaye). (1964 - 1967) The Dow Chemical Company pays Professor Kligman $10,000 to learn how dioxin -- a highly toxic, carcinogenic component of Agent Orange -- and other herbicides affect human skin because workers at the chemical plant have been developing an acne-like condition called Chloracne and the company would like to know whether the chemicals they are handling are to blame. As part of the study, Professor Kligman applies roughly the amount of dioxin Dow employees are exposed to on the skin 60 prisoners, and is disappointed when the prisoners show no symptoms of Chloracne. In 1980 and 1981, the human guinea pigs used in this study would begin suing Professor Kligman for complications including lupus and psychological damage (Kaye). 
[h=1](1965)[/h]The Department of Defense uses human test subjects wearing rubber clothing and M9A1 masks to conduct 35 trials near Fort Greely, Ala., as part of the Elk Hunt tests, which are designed to measure the amount of VX nerve agent put on the clothing of people moving through VX-contaminated areas or touching contaminated vehicles, and the amount of VX vapor rising from these areas. After the tests, the subjects are decontaminated using wet steam and high-pressure cold water (Goliszek). As part of a test codenamed "Big Tom," the Department of Defense sprays Oahu, Hawaii's most heavily populated island, with _Bacillus globigii_ in order to simulate an attack on an island complex. _Bacillus globigii_ causes infections in people with weakened immune systems, but this was not known to scientists at the time (Goliszek, Martin).


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 16, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> I have a question for anyone who follows any religion;
> 
> If it came to pass tomorrow, that a new, verified text was found that was directly tied to your religion, e.g. a new chapter of the bible, Quran, or a new text of the Tipitaka, etc.; and it commanded all the followers of said religion to murder any non-believer without question, would you do it?


...lol, just lol


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

And that's just some of the things scientists did to humans. If you're and animal it gets much worse.

Yes, tell me all about how science can provide us with morality.


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 16, 2013)

...one thing I have to say is that we're short on common sense  If any scripture says to take out the 'bad guys', there'd be no one left


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

The bulk of scripture seems to tell us common sense things. Love your neighbor, don't kill, don't steal. Yes, there is some stupid shit left in there from a time when we were violent and ignorant but 99% of the followers of a religion accept that as historical crap and they don't run around killing nonbelivers and people who sleep with goats. 

What exactly is science telling us? That the quest for knowledge trumps human life?


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## kpmarine (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Science corrects itself. What was believed once and proved to be wrong is changed. We accept that, we don't abandon science because of a mistake it made 200 years ago.
> 
> If we apply this to christianity then we can pretty much throw out the old testament. Jesus showed up as the son of god and essentially said, all that shit's wrong, just be nice to each other.
> 
> ...


Christianity never threw out the Old Testament; neither did jesus. Read the bible sometime. They ignore it now because it costs them followers. 

"Eugenics" is not a science. Also, there are no "teachings of science"; science is a process for verifying things that happen in the physical world.

Questioning your beliefs is not intolerance. Since when was getting questioned considered persecution of some sort? 

In truth, christians are good because god tells them to be. Now, I'm not saying that all of them would turn into mindless savages if god was somehow proven not to exist, either. I'm sure most of them would be perfectly good people. Because people can develop morals on their own. Buddhists And Hindus both have an ultimate reward for living life in a certain way too.


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## Kervork (Jul 16, 2013)

Correct, Eugenics is not a science, it is a social movement that was based on science, Darwinism to be exact. It attracted all number of scientists back in the day. 

I think that most of the christians I know would not agree that they are good because god tells them to be. You seem to like putting words into the mouths of others. 

The fact is that religion has been with us from the dawn of time. It is there because both religion and religious experience are a beneficial evolutionary adaptation. You would casually cast that off and claim that science can solve all our every day moral questions. Science has no process to address morality. If it did, perhaps we wouldn't have developed nuclear weapons. If science had some sort of internal moral compass or process why do we have these obvious failures of morality in experimenting on human beings. The idea that some guy up in the sky is watching you and doesn't want you to kill people is still far advanced over any reason science can give to not kill people. If anything, science suggests the planet is overpopulated and humans should be killed. Is that what we can expect from a culture who obtains it's morality from science?


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Science corrects itself. What was believed once and proved to be wrong is changed. We accept that, we don't abandon science because of a mistake it made 200 years ago.
> 
> If we apply this to christianity then we can pretty much throw out the old testament. Jesus showed up as the son of god and essentially said, all that shit's wrong, just be nice to each other.
> 
> ...


Jesus specifically said he wasn't there to change anything. 

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 16, 2013)

[video=youtube;5WhQ8bSvcHQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WhQ8bSvcHQ[/video]


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## Villane (Jul 16, 2013)

You follow the light and walk up the stairs. X)


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> And that's just some of the things scientists did to humans. If you're and animal it gets much worse.
> 
> Yes, tell me all about how science can provide us with morality.


You are simply applying the scientific method wrong

What you are doing is exactly like saying that all food is horrible because you bought a bad meal a few times. 

You don't get to throw out the *millennia *of proven scientific observation and tests because some guy somewhere at some point in time applied science towards his agenda. A gun can be used to save your life, but people murder people with them all the time, does that mean all guns are bad all the time?


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## smokinafatty (Jul 16, 2013)

"I'm gay for god" - It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

If you're gay for God, you'll make it. Hence the whole thing about worshiping on your knees. Good luck.


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## mindphuk (Jul 16, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You are simply applying the scientific method wrong
> 
> What you are doing is exactly like saying that all food is horrible because you bought a bad meal a few times.
> 
> You don't get to throw out the *millennia *of proven scientific observation and tests because some guy somewhere at some point in time applied science towards his agenda. A gun can be used to save your life, but people murder people with them all the time, does that mean all guns are bad all the time?


Not only that but he is conflating science with technology. Science is the pursuit of finding answers in nature. What we end up doing with those answers is always up to the individuals. I am currently reading _The Moral Landscape_ by Harris and he makes some very compelling arguments as to how science can and should be used to determine our morality. No one, including Harris, has claimed that science is moral, only that it is a tool that is far better and more useful than religion in coming up with the best version of morality that we can do as humans. In this regard, religion has been an abject failure. The mere fact that people have to cherry pick the best parts and ignore the parts they intuitively understand is immoral is a clear indication of why religion is useless as a moral framework. 

We don't kill each other because of the same reasons that piranha in a feeding frenzy don't eat each other and why bonobos and chimpanzees don't murder each other. We are cooperative and social by nature. These traits predate religion by millions of years. Religion was never the reason good people refrained from hurting others but it has been the reason that some good people have done very bad things to others.


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## tyler.durden (Jul 16, 2013)

Kervork said:


> Correct, Eugenics is not a science, it is a social movement that was based on science, Darwinism to be exact. It attracted all number of scientists back in the day.
> 
> I think that most of the christians I know would not agree that they are good because god tells them to be. You seem to like putting words into the mouths of others.
> 
> The fact is that religion has been with us from the dawn of time. It is there because both religion and religious experience are a beneficial evolutionary adaptation. You would casually cast that off and claim that science can solve all our every day moral questions. Science has no process to address morality.


You may want to take a look at the Sam Harris video above, it answers a lot of your questions, and is only 20 odd minutes long. It talks about morality as the intended harm, or benefit, of conscious creatures (our utopia being the height of human happiness and well being, and the worst case scenario being the deepest misery and suffering. If something is moral it is done to bring us closer to the utopia, and if immoral, it is done to bring us closer to the latter). We can all agree that fresh food is better for humans than poison, knowledge over ignorance, etc.. Science can and does bring about the conditions to create technology to better human existence. Morality has evolved in humans to more efficiently pass on our genes (the only intrinsic purpose of life). We evolved in tribes of about 150 members, and each member had a strong likelihood of sharing genes with the other tribe members. So, risking one's life for another member made sense biologically, since you were likely protecting your own shared genes. As societies grew larger and more complex, the chances of sharing genes with a stranger is quite low, but we still have the remnants of our older tribe mentality. So, we often still see people risk there lives for, or at least go out of there way to help, others. Hence, we have altruism. If science has no place in handling moral issues, religion has much, much less...



> If it did, perhaps we wouldn't have developed nuclear weapons. If science had some sort of internal moral compass or process why do we have these obvious failures of morality in experimenting on human beings.


.

Science showed us how to develop the technology to harness nuclear power. It is up to human beings to develop the technology to better humanity (clean, efficient nuclear reactors), or to harm it (nuclear weapons). The technology the scientific method brings about is not a moral issue or the responsibility of science, that onus is on human beings. Most technology developed from the scientific method can be a double-edged sword. As far as the immoral experimenting, that is done by immoral people misusing science. Even when sacrificing the few to save the many, most agree that this immoral as most of us don't want to live in a society in which we could be sacrificed to others.



> The idea that some guy up in the sky is watching you and doesn't want you to kill people is still far advanced over any reason science can give to not kill people.


I disagree. Cowering to a vengeful parental figure is not morality, and is a disgusting notion to a healthy adult human being. When my son does or doesn't do something for threat of being punished, that is simply self preservation and I am not impressed. When his actions are based on his inner sense of right and wrong regardless of the consequences to himself, he is being moral and I am proud. 



> .If anything, science suggests the planet is overpopulated and humans should be killed. Is that what we can expect from a culture who obtains it's morality from science?


Not at all. Using science and technology, people are finding ways to feed, clothe, shelter, and educate more people using less land, money and resources. Ultimately, science and humanity is the only hope any life has to continue, as we will have to eventually leave this solar system before our sun dies out or goes nova. Religion, the supernatural, aliens, dolphins, chimps or cows will be of no help. Go Science, Go!


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 17, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Science showed us how to develop the technology to harness nuclear power. It is up to human beings to develop the technology to better humanity (clean, efficient nuclear reactors), or to harm it (nuclear weapons). The technology the scientific method brings about is not a moral issue or the responsibility of science, that onus is on human beings. Most technology developed from the scientific method can be a double-edged sword. As far as the immoral experimenting, that is done by immoral people misusing science.


...the same can be said for spirituality, imo. "Most ideas developed from the scriptural method can be (and are clearly noted as) a double-edged sword. As far as the immoral experimenting, that is done by immoral people misusing scripture."

...k, are we even now?


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 17, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...the same can be said for spirituality, imo. "Most ideas developed from the scriptural method can be (and are clearly noted as) a double-edged sword. As far as the immoral experimenting, that is done by immoral people misusing scripture."
> 
> ...k, are we even now?


There is no scriptural method. The scriptural method is; 'it's written in this book, so we believe it.' How lame of a method is that?

A better question, what method _is_ there in doing that? That's just blindly reading, and believing something. If you're going to make an comparison, don't make it a non sequitur. 

Science uses tests to check the validity of what it claims, hence 'scientific method'. If scripture was testable, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 17, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> There is no scriptural method. The scriptural method is 'it's written here, so we believe it.'
> 
> What _method _is there in that? That's just blindly reading, and believing something. If you're going to make an comparison, don't make it a non sequitur.
> 
> Science uses tests to check the validity of what it claims, hence 'scientific method'. If scripture was testable, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


...I know the whats and hows, man  "Taste" is experience, scripturally speaking. It means to experience life, to experiment with the good.

(remember that science = a great necessity as far as I am concerned)




...I really didn't intend on making a serious post, but hey


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 17, 2013)

A) The Historical-Critical Method

Questions Typically Asked:

Composition History Questions

Who is the author of the work? What do we know about him/her/them?
Is the attributed author the actual author, or is the work pseudepigraphic?
When, where, and under what circumstances was the work written?
Who were the original recipients? Where did they live?

Traditional Literary Criticism

What words are used, and what range of meanings do they have?
What images and symbols are used, and what do they signify?
What characters appear in the story? What do we know about them?
How are the characters related to one another in the story?

Comparison of Translations

Are there any significant differences between various modern translations?
When were these translations done, using which translation philosophies?
Which ancient Hebrew or Greek texts underlie the various translations?
Has anything been lost or obscured in the process of translation?

Textual Criticism

Are there any variant readings in the ancient manuscripts?
Are the variants negligible (mere spelling) or significant (affecting meaning)?
Can the variants be explained as intentional changes, or as accidental ones?
How do the literary or historical contexts help explain the variant readings?

Source Criticism

Does the text have any underlying source or sources?
Which version of a source was used, in case there is more than one?
What do the sources actually say and mean in their original contexts?
How are the sources used (quoted, paraphrased, adapted?) in the later text?

Form Criticism

What is the literary form or &#8220;genre&#8221; of the whole work and the particular text?
Does the text follow or diverge from the usual expectations for this genre?
What is the normal purpose/goal of this genre?
In what social context would texts of this genre have been used?

Redaction Criticism

How has the author used the source(s) in shaping this text?
Are there any parallel texts, and how is this text similar and/or different?
What particular views or theological emphases does this author show?
How did the author&#8217;s life circumstances affect the shaping of the text?

Socio-Historical Criticism

If the story claims to be historical, what really happened?
What social, historical, or cultural information can be gleaned from the text?
What background information is necessary to better understand the text?
What was life like for the common people, not just the ruling elites?

B) New Methods of Literary Analysis

Questions Typically Asked:

Rhetorical Analysis

What message is the author trying to convey?
Is the author attempting to instruct, inspire, defend, or persuade the reader?
What rhetorical techniques does he use to achieve his goals?

Narrative Analysis

Who are the characters in the story? What roles do they play?
What is the plot sequence? What narrative time is covered?
What is the author&#8217;s and/or narrator&#8217;s point of view?

Semiotic Analysis

What deeper patterns of meaning are conveyed by the words and symbols?

C) Approaches Based on Tradition

Questions Typically Asked:

Canonical Approach

Where does this text belong in the literary context of the entire Bible?
How is this text related to prior texts and/or later texts in the Bible?
How does its location in the Canon affect the meaning of this text?

Using Jewish Interpretative Traditions

How do traditional Jewish methods of interpretation read this text?
Are there any parallel or similar stories in Rabbinic literature?
Do Jewish and Christian interpretations of this text differ significantly?

History of Interpretation
(Wirkungsgeschichte)

How was this text interpreted by the &#8220;Church Fathers&#8221; and in later centuries?
Is the text interpreted differently by various churches and denominations?
How has the text been interpreted in art, music, liturgy, and popular culture?

D) Apps. Using the Human Sciences

Questions Typically Asked:

Sociological Approach

What insights from Sociology can help in the interpretation of the text?
What patterns of human social behavior are evident in the text?

Cultural Anthropology Approach

What models from Cultural Anthropology can help us understand the text?
What cultural presuppositions/patterns affect the interpretation of the text?


Psychological/Psychoanalytical Apps.

How can the text be interpreted using various theories from Psychology?
*Can the text help us understand the human psyche better?*

E) Contextual Approaches

Questions Typically Asked:

Liberationist Approach

Has this text been used for domination of oppressed people? How?
Can this text be used for the liberation of the poor/disadvantaged? How?
Can other texts counteract the detrimental effects of oppressive texts?

Feminist Approach

Does the text evidence gender bias? Was later interpretation also biased?
How is the meaning of the text affected if read from a feminist perspective?
What other texts can be recovered and used to balance out biased texts?


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## PetFlora (Jul 17, 2013)

The answer to every question lies within. Seeking without is a distraction that the dark forces are masters at manipulating

Jesus said _Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, which lies within,_ and, _Greater things than these shall ye do_

Looking for answers in the pineal, mind, or chakra systems, are diversions from the truth, perpetrated by the dark forces. 

Work from your heart. Meditate from your heart. Bring your spirit and love out to cleanse the world of darkness.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 17, 2013)

Are you saying that science is bad or wrong because sometimes people use it for the wrong reasons? LMFAO! Then get the fuck off your computer and go dig a hole with a stick or something.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jul 17, 2013)

Kervork said:


> The bulk of scripture seems to tell us common sense things. Love your neighbor, don't kill, don't steal. Yes, there is some stupid shit left in there from a time when we were violent and ignorant but 99% of the followers of a religion accept that as historical crap and they don't run around killing nonbelivers and people who sleep with goats.
> 
> What exactly is science telling us? That the quest for knowledge trumps human life?




The bulk of scripture tells us bat shit crazy stories,humans are still violent and ignorant especially many of those who read scripture.99% of the followers of any given religion you say?what about the extreme fundamentalists?There are plenty of those lurking within your 99% estimate,just look at the likes of Westboro and Muslim jihadists,granted Westboro hasnt started killing people yet,but there views are harsh and inhuman,They still live in that ancient malevolent fossil of a world that toutes extreme violence in the name if their god and if they for some reason start to think or believe their God is telling them to kill people,odds are it will happen. 

lol @Kervork its almost as if you want to vilify science itself,how foolish yet amusing,the quest for knowledge through the scientific method is of sound ethic, as there are no blind favoritisms to its principles.Its when you get people who are corrupted or demented that are actualy intelligent ,using their knowledge to facilitate their own twisted ends do we see such disregard for human life.Because there is actualy a great regard for the lives of humankind through scientists, it is part of the reason why the majority scientists use lab rats or other animals for experimentation and testing before human application is rendered.


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## kpmarine (Jul 17, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...the same can be said for spirituality, imo. "Most ideas developed from the scriptural method can be (and are clearly noted as) a double-edged sword. As far as the immoral experimenting, that is done by immoral people misusing scripture."
> 
> ...k, are we even now?


Name 5 positive things that devoutly practicing religion has brought us.


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 17, 2013)

kpmarine said:


> Name 5 positive things that devoutly practicing religion has brought us.


...would you like me to cite some examples for a positive reason? Or will you be countering with the atrocities?



Zaehet Strife said:


> Are you saying that science is bad or wrong because sometimes people use it for the wrong reasons? LMFAO! Then get the fuck off your computer and go dig a hole with a stick or something.


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## kpmarine (Jul 17, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...would you like me to cite some examples for a positive reason? Or will you be countering with the atrocities?


I'm just curious if you can name 5 positive things religion has given us that a secular man could not. I'm talking Penicillin-caliber positive; not "I saw john help an old lady across the street." positive things. Not that religion gave us basic human decency.


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 17, 2013)

smokinafatty said:


> "I'm gay for god" - It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
> 
> If you're gay for God, you'll make it. Hence the whole thing about worshiping on your knees. Good luck.


[video=youtube_share;TzaVd6zl2bA]http://youtu.be/TzaVd6zl2bA[/video]


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 17, 2013)

kpmarine said:


> I'm just curious if you can name 5 positive things religion has given us that a secular man could not. I'm talking Penicillin-caliber positive; not "I saw john help an old lady across the street." positive things. Not that religion gave us basic human decency.


...that is a complicated question, but thanks for reformatting. There is no tangible thing, it is a congregation (he!) of concepts that help form a better worldview. Those 5 things could be anything, at any given point in time. An image forms in the minds of people, that image crystalizes before becoming a tangible thing. It starts as a longing for something better, I suppose. Science can fulfill those images in the material sense, but never has been the thought itself. Another problem is that I don't put science up to religion and compare (or vice versa). They were, and should be, in harmony. I just don't get why they're put against each other, sorry


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## tyler.durden (Jul 17, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...that is a complicated question, but thanks for reformatting. There is no tangible thing, it is a congregation (he!) of concepts that help form a better worldview. Those 5 things could be anything, at any given point in time. An image forms in the minds of people, that image crystalizes before becoming a tangible thing. It starts as a longing for something better, I suppose. Science can fulfill those images in the material sense, but never has been the thought itself. *Another problem is that I don't put science up to religion and compare (or vice versa). They were, and should be, in harmony. I just don't get why they're put against each other, sorry *




They are incompatible because (as Neer often brings up) science is all about test, and religion cannot bring anything to test to the table. When religion makes fact claims that are erroneous (all of them?), science easily refutes them with facts that are incompatible with the dogma. Religion wants to be friends with science, but science attempts to stay away from religion. Why is that?

[video=youtube;dg2K_n9ns5U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg2K_n9ns5U[/video]


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## Heisenberg (Jul 17, 2013)

You keep using that word...I don't think it means what you think it means.

[youtube]uJ3ea9fa6CA[/youtube]


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 17, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...that is a complicated question, but thanks for reformatting. There is no tangible thing, it is a congregation (he!) of concepts that help form a better worldview. Those 5 things could be anything, at any given point in time. An image forms in the minds of people, that image crystalizes before becoming a tangible thing. It starts as a longing for something better, I suppose. Science can fulfill those images in the material sense, but never has been the thought itself. Another problem is that I don't put science up to religion and compare (or vice versa). They were, and should be, in harmony. I just don't get why they're put against each other, sorry


In a better world, that might be how it worked, organized religion was there to guide and all the hate was ignored, that's how I would like it to be. But if I could add why I think science and religion clash, it's because religion makes claims that science proves false. Proving a claim false that was said to be the absolute truth presents problems in other areas of your dogma; if that was false, what else is false? When it comes to an easy choice to make, like treating homosexuals like any other person or treating them how the Westboro Baptists treat them, and the force is so great that it clouds their judgment, that's when it moves into hostile territory. The nature of science is to improve, and many non believers today believe that should be the ultimate pursuit, improve our species. The nature of organized religion is to deceive people into false belief at the expense of improvement.


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 17, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> [/B]
> 
> They are incompatible because (as Neer often brings up) science is all about test, and religion cannot bring anything to test to the table. When religion makes fact claims that are erroneous (all of them?), science easily refutes them with facts that are incompatible with the dogma. Religion wants to be friends with science, but science attempts to stay away from religion. Why is that?
> 
> [video=youtube;dg2K_n9ns5U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg2K_n9ns5U[/video]


...insecure?


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## tyler.durden (Jul 17, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...insecure?


LOL! That's good  It seems that the party that continuously extends it's hand requesting friendship after consistent rejection is the one that is insecure. Religion seems to seek validation from science, whereas science needs no validation from religion...


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## tyler.durden (Jul 17, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> You keep using that word...I don't think it means what you think it means.
> 
> [youtube]uJ3ea9fa6CA[/youtube]


Radiation Rocks! Here's a couple more helpful things it produces -


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 17, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> LOL! That's good  It seems that the party that continuously extends it's hand requesting friendship after consistent rejection is the one that is insecure. Religion seems to seek validation from science, whereas science needs no validation from religion...


...nature is balanced all on its own, correct? Included in nature of man is spirituality, art, philosophy and science. Those are the staples, we can't change that.

...I like that you said "seems to seek" as opposed "seeks". Shows me that you're not making an invalid claim, staying true to what you preach. There are a few here that could really learn something from you. Sorry, too friendly?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jul 17, 2013)

Spirituality... wonder

Art... expression

Philosophy... thought

Science... the closest approximation to the truth of this reality



WHY? .......... unanswered.


don't forget to breathe


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## Beefbisquit (Jul 18, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...nature is balanced all on its own, correct? Included in nature of man is spirituality, art, philosophy and science. Those are the staples, we can't change that.
> 
> ...I like that you said "seems to seek" as opposed "seeks". Shows me that you're not making an invalid claim, staying true to what you preach. There are a few here that could really learn something from you. Sorry, too friendly?


Art, philosophy, and science are all products of language. Early humans weren't capable of articulating these ideas, so it could be argued they're not natural or intrinsic to humans, if that's the definition of 'nature' or 'natural' people choose to use in this case. 

It kind of reminds me of the term 'organic'. It can mean so many things, and people often apply their own meaning to the word.


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## eye exaggerate (Jul 18, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Art, philosophy, and science are all products of language. Early humans weren't capable of articulating these ideas, so it could be argued they're not natural or intrinsic to humans, if that's the definition of 'nature' or 'natural' people choose to use in this case.
> 
> It kind of reminds me of the term 'organic'. It can mean so many things, and people often apply their own meaning to the word.


...I always thought math was the 'perfect' language?

...nb: we're still early humans


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## guy incognito (Jul 19, 2013)

Math is the universal language.


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## srh88 (Sep 21, 2013)




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## GreyLord (Sep 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> *Don't allow evil to change the way you think about Jesus. Jesus is and always will be our God and our Savior. Just cry out Jesus save me and feel God come to you.*


What a load of regurgitated nonsense. Are you that insecure in your beliefs that you have to spew this crap? To what end? I was raised in a 'house of the lord' & just about every experience with christians was what led me to break free of my indoctrination. And listening to your hollow words only reinforces my resolve, thanks 
Why do you, like most christians, ignore the very words of 'jesus' in that book of fiction? Instead of 'living your life like a shining light' you may as well be 'offering pearls to swine'. haha.
You, like most born-agains, pay attention to what suits your ego [the adversary within - you call it satan or devil. Yw ] & ignore what doesn't.
How do you live with your hypocrisy? When you [or anyone else for that matter] attains perfection then I might be inclined to listen but at the moment your just regurgitating a load of garbage from a fictional book that's endured a very long game of chinese whispers (over 14,800 significant changes from the original bible [Sinai] & the KJV)
Do something about 'the log in your own eye' rather than attending to the specks in others. 'Judge not lest ye be judged'. Get your own house in order before you come knocking at others doors. Oh & I must ask - How exactly does 'god' move you to share your superstitious fairy-tale? If your hearing voices then you need medication. It is NOT, I repeat NOT god but a figment of your imagination. 

Oh & btw, I already have 'eternal' life. I do not need to 'pray' to anyone, especially not a fictional character [the name 'jesus' is not recorded by ANY historian of the time nor any event in the new testament]. Reincarnation was a basic tenet of the christian faith until it was pronounced anathema for political reasons. But why let facts get in the way of your ignorance?
Our Creator will not let any fall by the wayside. Even your book of fiction promises the same ['god' looks after every little sparrow but I'm up shit creek if I ignore delusional wankers like yourself? haha.] 
You probably mean well so I'll leave you with this - instead of annoying others by repeating crap like a parrot without any positive affect, why not try volunteering at your local soup kitchen or retirement home & do something useful & positive? Just a thought 
Peace


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Sep 28, 2013)

lol,Greylord,I dont think youll be getting any responses from OG anytime soon.He hasnt posted for months now.I think the skeptics and atheists of RIU SS&P drove him out.,,but who knows about that one.


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## GreyLord (Sep 29, 2013)

Ah you think after all these years I would stop reacting to their need to ram their nonsense down others throats Dis-midge
Somethings very wrong with ones beliefs if that belief needs those around him to believe the same. Personally I couldn't care less what others believe as long as it's positive & doesn't infringe on others.


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## ILoveYouSweetLeaf (Oct 1, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I have studied many religions and practiced them as well. I have had many spiritual experiences and have often felt God and angels helping me. Nothing has changed me or given me so much understanding, strength, and hope as having the Holy spirit working in me and doing my best to live a righteous life following the Holy Word of God. I've seen many accounts of blind people gaining sight because of the healing power of God. People getting healed of inoperable cancer through prayer and laying on of hands and letting the spirit of God work through people. Christianity isn't just a means of control, it is the way to eternal life in paradise. And the way of true healing from God. The path to holiness and righteousness.


"I've seen many accounts of blind people gaining sight because of the healing power of God." If you mean spiritually blind, fine. If you mean literally BLIND as in eyesight, I call BS and I call you a liar.


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## D619 (Oct 5, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I have been moved by God to begin a thread on the way to heaven,
> I pray that many people will be saved from hell by viewing this thread.
> This is not a place to slander Christianity. Please keep it clean.
> 
> ...


do you realize you suffer from a mental disorder?


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## darrellduaner (Oct 7, 2013)

if you want to go to heaven, die


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## beneathredcliffs (Oct 19, 2013)

Its crazy but I think he uses telepathy you listen to our prayers there is no magical formula its all super advanced technology. Think of it this way, Jesus is a highly advanced humanoid who shares our ancestoral DNA, he is the king of this galaxy and travels though space and time in a UFO type ship. He loves us and came to earth and restored his gospel through a prophet named Joseph Smith. ThelLDS church is partially true, its just been corrupted by human ignorance, the teaching are all in line with living a long happy life on earth and in heaven


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## GreyLord (Oct 21, 2013)

Oh no! The god-botherers have found us.


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## OldGrowth420 (Mar 20, 2021)

God has found us!+


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## OldGrowth420 (Mar 20, 2021)

I think he found my stash and smoked it through me! +


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## spliffendz (Mar 20, 2021)

halleluja


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Mar 20, 2021)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Jesus is the only way in which we can enter into the gates of heaven.


What is Jesus? Serious question. That means different things to different people.

The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms.


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## Mookjong (Apr 1, 2021)

You can ask Kerri Stowell from Fox 4 Kc. She's jesus' handler.


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## V256.420 (Apr 1, 2021)

woah


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 1, 2021)

Mookjong said:


> You can ask Kerri Stowell from Fox 4 Kc. She's jesus' handler.


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## OutdoorOpps (Oct 11, 2021)

In my corner of the world get to heaven is pretty cheap with Ryanair


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## Beza9 (Oct 16, 2021)

Life is eternal for everyone (only God can destroy a soul and that is very rare). 

First John, "God is Love."

Got, "Love" then you have God regardless if you believe in God or not.

The way to heaven is through love. Love ye one another. Jesus also said that if you only love those that are like you then what is your reward. Easy to love those like you but no reward.

Love your enemies the most for they are the furthest from your heart.

Jesus said that there are many mansions so heaven is not just one place or one level. He also said, "I go to prepare a place for you if this was not so I would not say it was.


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## Observe & Report (Oct 17, 2021)

Beza9 said:


> Life is eternal for everyone (only God can destroy a soul and that is very rare).


There's no such thing as a soul, it's just something people made up.


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