# "Connoisseur's Choice ~ Epic Multi Journal from the Seed Freaks"



## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 16, 2011)

Hey everybody, this is to be a "muti journal" thread, where myself and my fellow strain nuts from the "Seed Collectors thread" are all gonna join up together and pool our resources in and share some of our grow logs and bud porn, for all our *hardcore grow &strain talk* all together in one spot . 
This is to be an open thread where *anybody* from the "Seed Collectors thread" can feel free to come in and contribute and add to, to share their experiences here with us all. If we can get all the seed collectors showing off their grown out beans from these top of the line strains that we all have and keep collecting, there is a chance of something really epic being created here!!...*

To keep this thread neat and tidy though, I think we need a few ground rules too to keep things professional and friendly. And I think we should keep things in here to a grow style and strain performance in seed/veg/flower journal & a hardcore grow/strain talk style thread only and keep our seed news & collecting chat for back in our other hot spot . All grow styles are to be welcome too wheather your into ~ soil or hydro, indoor or outdoor, if its a collectable strain of fire dankage or a cherished "keeper" strain in seed or clone even. Or just add in some real fine ass Bud Porn that you may have you have and want to share with us . Then get to posting. Just keep the hate and personal fights out guys/gals yeah, we can all be friends in here as long as mutual respect is shown!!. *

**********
​ 
Right to get the ball rolling I'll start off and fill you in on my current set up and what I'm running atm...

I'm an Indoor "Passive Hydro/Pot Culture" grower, now in coco. I'm using 10-15L pots filled with CANNA Coco pro+, mixed with a little perlite (80/20% mix). Sometimes goin whole coco no perlite lol.
The Nutrients/Additives I'll be using mostly as and when needed for stages in cycle are:
~ CANNA ~ Coco A+B, CannaBoost, PK13/14, Rhizotonic, Cannazym, CANNA "Monos" - N, Cal' & Mag'. I like to use the CANNA line atm but I am experimenting atm seein whats needed and what isn't so my nute list may change...
Main flowering room: (estimated) Size - 6ft x 4ft x 10+ft full room height, has full intake/extraction fans, carbon filter, airflow fans and fan/temp controls.
*Lighting: x3 - 600w HPS (1800w).*
*Veg Closet lighting: x2 - 300w CFL "Blue" (600w)*






^^2/3's of my flowering room pictured with my current line up and I am just straing this run proper now, strains goin atm in flower ~ x5 Motavation (Fems), x4 BlooGoo, x3 Double Barrel OG, x2 Jedi Kush clones (OG pheno). 






^^ And just out of shot on the left in the last pic here are my other from seed Jedi Kush (left) and a "Grape Stomper X ChemD-OG" (right) from one of my test grows. I'll have more pic's and info of those up here real soon for you all.






^^ These are my x4 "BlooGoo", I have no idea what these are genetic wise as I got them from the trade list @nettics on an impluse cos the name just grabbed me and I just had to see what they were lol. They look great so far though imo. The 2 at the back are both female and the front 2 are still waiting to confirm.
Nutes/levels for veg for *"BlooGoo"*:
_Week#1 ~ water only!! ~ ph-5.8/5.9
Week#2 ~ A+B, ~ E.C-1.2, ph-5.8/5.9
Week#3 ~ A+B, "N", rhizo' ~ E.C-1.2/1.3, ph-5.8/5.9
Week#4 ~ A+B, "N","Cal", rhizo', C'zym ~ E.C-1.4, ph-5.8/5.9
Week#5 ~ A+B, "N","Cal", rhizo', C'zym ~ E.C-1.4, ph-5.8/5.9_

************​ 
So you get the idea of what we're gonna try to create here, I hope to see you collectors adding your work in to here soon too. This is gonna be something to be proud of if we all pull together.
Mass love n Respect to all who join in here and contribute to our community in the right way. I'm really looking forwards to see where this idea goes from here... 
_Stay Up RIU!!_


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## Saerimmner (Oct 16, 2011)

haha first in an subbed lol


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 16, 2011)

Very nice i was just thinkn we should put something like this together skunk... Im gonna play along aswell its been so long since ive subbed a thread i dont remember how lol will post pics soon tho...


edit- nvr mind im subbed lol


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## taaldow (Oct 16, 2011)

Very nice skunk


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## Airwave (Oct 16, 2011)

I shall do you the honour of having my subscription.


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## cmt1984 (Oct 16, 2011)

cool...just postin so i remember to come back tonight and post pics. this should help keep our collectors thread a bit "cleaner"


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## karmas a bitch (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm in. It will be a minute before pics from me. Just popped em. 

10 hortilab super sour skunk
11 bodhi seeds a11
Plus some clones of exclusive shit


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 16, 2011)

im SUBlimating this one


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## puffntuff (Oct 16, 2011)

Snapping pics uploading later tonight


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 16, 2011)

I better post before the big dogs get in here. Im just running an air cooled 600 until i get my new genetics in the mail (cant wait)... I have 4 grape gods in flower. 3 are five weeks and the other is only 16 inches and 4 days into flower. I should have sum pure Afghani genetics to show off soon.


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## Bluejeans (Oct 16, 2011)

.....I'm here with popcorn.....

I love budporn.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 16, 2011)

Thanx for the show of + support already everyone, don't just subb either add in your work too and lets blow this thread up some 

I've snapped some fresh bud pic's and am gonna post 'em in here soon . I'm really digging that Grape God smokey!!.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 16, 2011)

From one of my test grows here's: *Grape Stomper X ChemD-OG ~ @ Day#52 (Day#100 total). *
Now in flush and nearly ready for the chop here soon, but this mega frosty babe is swelling really nicely with every day that passes...













































































Also check out my latest update to my JK grow thread for more & more pornage to feast on lol >>> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/460594-jedi-kush-cali-connect-indoor-6.html#post6474050


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 16, 2011)

@skunk>>Damn that looks dank AAA+ bro


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2011)

Thats what im saying fuck i cant wait for those white stomper freebies from the tude


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## Bluejeans (Oct 17, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Thanx for the show of + support already everyone, don't just subb either add in your work too and lets blow this thread up some
> 
> I've snapped some fresh bud pic's and am gonna post 'em in here soon . I'm really digging that Grape God smokey!!.


Having not yet successfully completed a grow, the only pics I have are my current "work in progress" -- a single little girl of unknown parentage. I got her at the beginning of "puberty" (day 3 of flowering). But I'm proud of her!  (Mostly cuz she's my first)


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 17, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Thats what im saying fuck i cant wait for those white stomper freebies from the tude


The resin coverage on Grape Stomper is just fantastic, Hazman has a damn fine cut of the GS too and that X should deffo give you wet dreams while in full bloom . 
Gage Green also have a "White Fire Stomper" in testing atm too. Along with quite a few other new "Stomper" X's. The upcoming "Skywalker OG X Stomper OG" looks to be a perticular highlight imo .

Don't be shy @Bluejeans, if your proud of your girl show her off. You never forget your first


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## budpatch (Oct 17, 2011)

Bro, your work is sick as always. You have some of the loveliest grows on every forum I visit. Its no wonder everyone sends you gear to test! Props to you.

BP


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## Bluejeans (Oct 17, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Don't be shy @Bluejeans, if your proud of your girl show her off. You never forget your first


Compared to you guys, I am so new I shine, but I will be be posting more as I *LOVE* taking pictures of my baby. AND...I proudly announce the "popping" of my first bean...ever. I put a Vanilla Kush bean and a Red Cherry Berry bean into grodans on Saturday night and this morning, my little Kushy took a peek at the wide world. I hope to come home from work to find her sister Cherry perusing the surroundings too.

And no, I'll never forget my first. She has been used and abused and the fact that she's not sporting a set of balls somewhere is a pure miracle. I should have named her Valium because she manages stress like nobody's business!


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## Bluejeans (Oct 17, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> ... I hope to come home from work to find her sister Cherry perusing the surroundings too.


Yay! The Red Cherry Berry has sprouted too. I am 2 for 2! Pictures to come when they have their first true leaves.


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## gudkarma (Oct 17, 2011)

pic one : legion og (pestilence og x mass super skunk) : green lantern seed co.

* pestilence : abusive og x d og : green lantern seed co. * 

pic two : nothern lights x blueberry : delicious seeds

pic three : afghan kush , on the rebound in the midst of the "coco learning curve" : world of seeds landrace fatness

pic four : lavander haze (soma's personal cut of lavander x soma's amnesia haze daddy) : breed by e$kobar 

*

pic five : crappy but gets the job done : cracked tonight : the original SAGE (big holy sur x master ice) : breed by hennepdesk

pic six : space warp drive clone aparatus : level one NL x BB , nl leaning pheno ; level two gudkarma's personal propagation cuts ; level three houston shoreline (legendary clone only)

pic seven : some lab shots , foremost table is afghan kush in hydroton

pic eight : the "mighty round table" in a square tray : where old moms go to get back shots & nug'd out

pic 9 : hash bomb , booty call

pic 10 : from the depths of middle earth (cause only hobbits grow in tents) : mother tent , yes i'm half hobbit 



strains : sannie's extrema, cali connex tahoe og, sannie freebie mad shack, e$kobar's chocolate mind melt, e$kobar's lavander haze, SAGE, afghan kush, eugenics og graze, houston shoreline, tenn. hawgsbreath (clone only), sensi shiva skunk, sweet seeds double white, nl x bb (2 phenos) , legion og (3 phenos), TGA (this is your last chance) plushberry, bomb seeds hash bomb, & maybe one or two more i cant remember cause i am VERY high right now 

in the immeidate works : cuts of : blue dream, sour d, and J1

got beans, beans, beans too... with rice... with pork... how i love to make stew!


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 17, 2011)

That NLxBB is lookin fat already karma cant wait to see legion og in full bloom!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 18, 2011)

Great addition to the journal here gk, I knew you'd come through with a real professional show for us mate. Looking forwards to seein much more from you too fella. 

Now where are the rest of those seed freaks , should be getting in here soon... We need more fuel for the fire


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 18, 2011)

lighting the fire a bit skunk orange kush!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 18, 2011)

heres some more orange kush and dump truck


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 18, 2011)

Nice one @hellraizer, I just had a looksie at your journal and was wondering when you'd make a splash in here mate. Love the colarage you've brought to our show here and they're some real quality pic's too . Thanx for joining in with the party!!

Burn baby burn!! .... Now where did I put my screen wipes , lol


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 18, 2011)

I cant wait to get those white grapes rollin


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 18, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I cant wait to get those white grapes rollin


I can't wait to see 'em too mate, the GS is just amazing in the resin coverage she brings and yeilds very well too. Gonna be a good show to watch that one will .


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## gudkarma (Oct 18, 2011)

damn hellraizer... you definitely are lord of the rings.

if that herb is for the flip, the bag appeal looks to be off the charts.

impressive... healthy & sexy.

i like what you have going on in over there ...wherever "there" may (or may not) be.

*

legion og , before lights on.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 18, 2011)

gudkarma said:


> damn hellraizer... you definitely are lord of the rings.
> 
> if that herb is for the flip, the bag appeal looks to be off the charts.
> 
> ...


No not intended for a flip! Just a caregiver for family. Thanks for the words! Cant imagine what its going to
Be like with some steller genetics!


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## Bluejeans (Oct 18, 2011)

My little girl is nothing compared to the seas of beautiful green, but she's mine and I love her 

She's about mid-way thru week 5 of flowering and she is of unknown parentage.



She just got moved out of the grow room and into a box with 2 300w CFL's and she is really doing well in there. She has been shuffled around from place to place her whole life and she is a real trooper. If I knew then what I know now, I would have cloned her.


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 18, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> My little girl is nothing compared to the seas of beautiful green, but she's mine and I love her
> 
> She's about mid-way thru week 5 of flowering and she is of unknown parentage.
> 
> ...


after a first plant like this youll have plenty confidence to continue growing... well done so far.


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 18, 2011)

gudkarma said:


> pic one : legion og (pestilence og x mass super skunk) : green lantern seed co.
> 
> * pestilence : abusive og x d og : green lantern seed co. *
> 
> ...


I was just lookin at some hash bomb seeds... would u recommend it?


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## gudkarma (Oct 18, 2011)

i would & would not.

i cracked these toward the end of my divorce vs. cracking something of higher value ...as my ex was in rampage mode.

after loosing all my good shit, figured better "hash bomb" get a bath w/ monsanto than let's say jedi kush.

feel me?

after much consideration & with the several drops (both hydro & dirty dirt) w/ 2 phenos i ran :

B- : herbals
A- : to grow & clone

for guys/gals that really rock it, might be a little to "ho hum". if i didn't have to move the lab, and was in ultra production mode, i would have turned it all to hash.

put it on the flip (ahem , client care) & peeps fell in love. 

smoking it now. kinda kushy. little skunky. stinks up my place fu*king fierce. 
unique, almost hint of bitter, taste... with killer bag appeal ...but average high. 

i plan to let my clients have every drop of hash bomb & my next pull of afghan kush in coco (which is comming out awesome thanks to lastwood & the seedfreaks) ...so i can keep all the legion og (AAA+) for my head.

if i was gonna reccomend something inexpensive : delicious seeds , northern lights blue (solid A across the board)


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## Bluejeans (Oct 19, 2011)

gudkarma said:


> if i was gonna reccomend something inexpensive : delicious seeds , northern lights blue (solid A across the board)



Duly noted. I might not be as smart as you folks about this stuff, but by golly I'm smart enough to know where to take notes!!!


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## cmt1984 (Oct 19, 2011)

ok...here it is.

i like to call this, the vault.

4 150w hps in the flower room and 1 175w hid and 2 85w 6500k cfl's in the veg room. i grow in 2 1/2 and 4 gal buckets with some soil mix that the local hydro shop mixes up and that is a diy 5 gal bucket 3 plant aero-cloner.

in flower i have gorilla grape, purple urkel, plushberry and grape ape. in veg i have green queen x querkle (tga tester), querkle, cali con pre98 bubba fem and gage green grape stomper bx...there is a kos c99 in there about to break ground, also a colored plushberry in re-veg (was just chopped last week) and in the cloner i have 2 purple urkels and 1 gorilla grape....i think thats it... 


















here is gorilla grape @28 days if i remember right...was hit with plushberry pollen



























here is some purple urkel @41 days...was hit with plushberry pollen






















grape ape @18 days...gonna hit her with some plushberry pollen tonight.












plushberry @18 days...with also be hit with plushberry pollen.

















and finally, my colored plushberry from a couple days before harvest...


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 19, 2011)

Yes, yes, yes!!. thanx for adding your masterwork cmt. This is exactly what I was goin for with this idea mate, your pics just jump out & off the screen. I'm loving your setup too that is professional to a T. Now where are the rest of those "seed freaks"...


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## gaztoth (Oct 19, 2011)

ill have some soon lol great thread rep+


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> ok...here it is.
> 
> i like to call this, the vault.
> 
> ...


Very nice cmt got question about your medium is that extra chunky perlite?


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## itslogics (Oct 19, 2011)

I'll be posting some pics of my baby's tonight once the lights flip, this will be a great thread!


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## cmt1984 (Oct 19, 2011)

I use soil, I just put a layer of perlite on top to prevent bugs, so the soil isn't disturbed when I water and it helps prevent the top layer of soil from drying out and turning into concrete.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2011)

Cool cool...........


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## karmas a bitch (Oct 19, 2011)

Cmt looks great bro!

Please when u hit the reply with quote button if people have pics erase that shit before u post ur comment. There is no point in putting their pics up twice. That is annoying!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2011)

karmas a bitch said:


> Cmt looks great bro!
> 
> Please when u hit the reply with quote button if people have pics erase that shit before u post ur comment. There is no point in putting their pics up twice. That is annoying!


Ha lol sorry to annoy you!


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## karmas a bitch (Oct 19, 2011)

It's all good bro not trying to be a dick at All. Just didn't want this journal to turn into one of those


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## itslogics (Oct 20, 2011)

My little setup 

Secret Jardin Twin DR90T

600watt mh/hps

600 Watt Micromole Digital Ballast

424 cfm Amazon "special" fan and carbon filter combo deal lol

Sunleaves Pioneer VIII 2x2 8 bulb HO T5

misc...stuff..umm anyways..

Nutrients I use are Humdolt County's (sorry organic users, but I don't really use them in Coco Coir)

Master A
Master B
Verde
Equilibrium mg/ca
Silicate
White Widow
Power UP
Ginormous

All this in 1 gallon pots, with Royal Gold's Coco Coir.

The top of the tent is for propagation, you can see my sour bubble, and blubonic baby's vegging away there, and you can see my little sour bubble runt. The stem can't hold up the stalk of the little plant lol, but now its shedding its outer lining and getting green so we will see how it goes. All of them get some lst done early to them, so I can get the light to penetrate down there and build some healthy colas.

Then the pics of the tent downstairs, I have a few strains that just I just put under flower 2 days ago, with some lst done while vegging. I have some power skunk, chemdog ibl (I was gifted this), pure afghan, skunk#1. 

After I find a good mother of some sour bubble and blubonic, I'll start up another run with peyote purple, strawberry alien kush, homewrecker v1, so hopefully I'll find some keepers in that bunch...I like variety, so mothers don't stay very long in my tent maybe 3-4 runs and they get flowered lol, unless I can find a very very rare pheno, or a nice rare strain.

Pics...I need a better camera asap lol











































Purple stems  (sorry I couldn't get a better focus)














those are my babys


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 20, 2011)

Good looking grow itslogic keep it green


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## itslogics (Oct 20, 2011)

Thanks!! If you look closely on some of the plants you might notice some leaves missing or bite marks though...damn cat loves this stuff haha


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## greengenez (Oct 20, 2011)

@cmt That Gorilla Grape is out of hand. Nice work, and great pics.

edit: Almost forgot Gudkarma, and skunkmunkie, Wish I could get a shoe from both of ya and take a walk some day.


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## Tales (Oct 20, 2011)

Checking in... Morning RIU


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## Bluejeans (Oct 20, 2011)

These are my first two seeds EVER. I have a Vanilla Kush and Red Cherry Berry this is day 1 out of the rockwool for both of them. The seeds were planted on Saturday night around 9:00 pm and by Thursday at 6:00 pm, I had two pretty ladies.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 20, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> These are my first two seeds EVER. I have a Vanilla Kush and Red Cherry Berry this is day 1 out of the rockwool for both of them. The seeds were planted on Saturday night around 9:00 pm and by Thursday at 6:00 pm, I had two pretty ladies.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1847867View attachment 1847868


Looking good man........!


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## gudkarma (Oct 20, 2011)

those selections you picked up bluejeans should be fun to grow.

are those strains both from barney's?


*


legion og : mms leaning


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## gudkarma (Oct 20, 2011)

legion og : og leaning


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## Bluejeans (Oct 20, 2011)

gudkarma said:


> those selections you picked up bluejeans should be fun to grow.
> 
> are those strains both from barney's?


Ya, they are. They were part of my very first seed purchase from Attitude and I picked them both because they reported to be forgiving to novices. Since I don't have any bagseed to practice on, this will have to be for real! LOL. I'm really looking forward to the experience. I have my dear Alice of unknown wonderland who should be finishing up in the next couple of weeks so I'll have my very first harvest pretty soon here.

Right now, I adore coming home after being gone for awhile and walking into my bedroom. She stinks so pretty in there! I'm not too worried about complete stealth on the odor since everybody in the house is over 21 and knows about my growing so I minimize it to a degree and consider the rest room freshener.


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## gudkarma (Oct 20, 2011)

[youtube]PkXh4kRTBVk[/youtube]

*
*
*
taken just now : afghan kush : early flower

moving from 400w 3x2 to the 800w 4x2 ; doing it after dark , doin it in the park...


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## gudkarma (Oct 20, 2011)

northern lights x blueberry


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 20, 2011)

Tell your friends, and any & all "Bud Porn" fanatics you know to come on in and join the party!! .

Thanx for makin this the start of something BIG here on RIU too everybody ,
And I probabbly should have said something about the repeating of post pic's in the replies, but "KarmasaBitch" has already covered it for me now lol. (cheers fella). Keeps things tidy to read back through is all . Puts a lot of people off reading through a thread too sometimes (snobs lol). 
Anyways back to some "Grow" action, whos gonna be next to show off their work for us??


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## rhump11 (Oct 20, 2011)

Nice growing!


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## Saerimmner (Oct 21, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Tell your friends, and any & all "Bud Porn" fanatics you know to come on in and join the party!! .
> 
> Thanx for makin this the start of something BIG here on RIU too everybody ,
> And I probabbly should have said something about the repeating of post pic's in the replies, but "KarmasaBitch" has already covered it for me now lol. (cheers fella). Keeps things tidy to read back through is all . Puts a lot of people off reading through a thread too sometimes (snobs lol).
> Anyways back to some "Grow" action, whos gonna be next to show off their work for us??


I wont be next but at some point in the next month ill be starting some CheesequakeXQrazytrain in here lol


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 21, 2011)

gudkarma said:


> northern lights x blueberry


 one of my pers favs!


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 21, 2011)

Jus wanna add a few...


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 21, 2011)

Very nice smokey rep for that shit!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 21, 2011)

Damn Smokey, bringing in the fire I see mate. What strain/s is that?? Very nice work my friend


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 21, 2011)

thats some nice lookin gear right there to Smokey


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## Crash666 (Oct 22, 2011)

Here's some pineapple express porn. I'll try and get some shots of my setup here soon.


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 22, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Damn Smokey, bringing in the fire I see mate. What strain/s is that?? Very nice work my friend


All grape god... feels like foreva since ive grown anything else seriously. Im lookin tho!


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## gudkarma (Oct 22, 2011)

[youtube]iHKVXpu9zp0&feature=related[/youtube]

1) kush nugz from an old mom cut & thrown into flower. coco.

2 & 3 ) mad shack nug (white widow/herijuana x sannies shack)

4) gudkarma's daily drama. kicked it. i gutted. then fixed. i threw away the decorative plastic in case i need to dig-in one more time. she continues to dehuey though. working great & saved myself some $. i want to take a moment & thank my dad for teaching me to be a real man.

5) old moms working their MILFy magic 

6 & 7) northern lights blue : overferted : nug session ; shit is a bomb yielder though & my next run is gonna great! i snatched a few early nugs & im quite happy to keep this this in the rotation. tastey brohams! & VERY stoney. & cheap good beans. w/ this delicious seed strain i'd say pleased.

eight) e$kobar's :still sexing the lavander haze 


all my stuff ready to get the chop, in about 10 days, isnt that pleasing to me. 

ph issues.
thrips on the preceding tray... week 1-3 & 4-6 touch.
maptio learning curve... especially regarding calcium & ph ! 
scorching them very early with 800w of lumens. what was i thinking ! & 7 weeks later just figuring the optimal distance for the lights. 
and obvious over feeding. 

all issues corrected & moving forward.

from 8 cuts rooted & off to flower (in one gallon containers of mapito) i estimate 1/4 pound of dry product. 

that's 8 cuts. 

i know i can do better but not bad for the first time  
gud will be throwing down with mapito again soon & with hennepdesk's sage.

for now, and until i get the lab tweaked, i switched back to hydroton ...a medium & nute schedule i know very well ...and it gives me more time to focus on locking in my coco skills. 

all my new stuff in the MILFy flower area is looking quite sweet. i hope to keep it that way.

i also switched back to maxigro/maxibloom an old familiar stand by... which i had in my nute stash... and had about 6% cal which is nice.

my basic hydro nute mix for mid flower is : maxibloom, potas. silicate, enzyme, bacto, endo & liquid karma : 750ppm : ph 5.5 to 5.8 !!!!! never a blip higher.

for early flower : remove maxibloom & substitute maxigrow

for late flower : maxibloom, p/k booster i use beastie blooms by foxfarm, enzyme, bacto, endo : about 900 to 950ppm.

week 7 through 8 i just run ph fresh water & a dash of cha ching (foxfarm) : about 200 ppm

for coco i keep it @ about 500ppm and substitute botanicare coco cns17 and about 5.8 to 6.0 ph. 


i'm gonna lock this shit down or burn mad electric$ trying.


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## gudkarma (Oct 22, 2011)

here ya go bluejean.

rooted from flower.

two strains taken at different times in flower one early, one fairly late.

pic #2 you can see how the stem goes from smooth to white and bumpy (barely).


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## Bluejeans (Oct 23, 2011)

gudkarma said:


> here ya go bluejean.
> 
> rooted from flower.
> 
> ...


Interesting... as much as I've read and researched, that whole idea is new to me. Alice wakes up in about an hour and I'm gonna give this a shot. I LOVE experimentation! You do realize that my Alice is 2 days into week 6 of flowering...she's quite advanced.


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## Crash666 (Oct 23, 2011)

More porn...


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## Bluejeans (Oct 24, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> ...Alice wakes up in about an hour and I'm gonna give this a shot. I LOVE experimentation!


Okay, I'm responding to my own post but I am so jazzed that I may have a viable cut of Alice. She is so small that I actually had difficulty selecting a single cut, but I found one and followed instructions to the letter. Now, at almost 24 hours later, the cut is still standing pretty strong and not showing any visible signs of distress.. I lifted the dome and touched her leaves to see if she felt wilty, and she did a little bit, but not too bad really. I was impressed. I've named her Alicina.

Alice was obviously trained and trimmed to be extremely small. I don't know what her growing conditions or location was before she came to me, but I suspect something like a speaker case because she was so little. Even now at 6.5 weeks of flowering, she is still only about 9" tall. I often wondered what her potential would have been if she had been allowed to get bigger. Now I'll get a chance to see with Alicina because I've got plenty of space for her to get much larger than her mom did.

I'm feeling pretty good about this! 

Meanwhile, my Vanilla Kush and Red Cherry Berry are growing like ... well... weeds! They are both standing tall and strong with a lot of strength in the stems. The first set of real leaves are starting to sprout from the singles and the roots are running like gangbusters. The VK taproot is about 8" below the net pot (I swear it grew 6" over night!!!) and the RCB has 1" roots sticking out of about 5 places in the bottom, but no really long taproot showing like the VK.

I try to get some pics up this evening...


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## Bluejeans (Oct 24, 2011)

Well with a little help from my friends, I've taken a clone from Alice and have begun rooting it. It is my very first ever clone and I'm really excited. The first picture is of the cut just after putting it in the rockwool. The second is 33 hours later. The second post doesn't really do it justice because it is looking almost exactly the same as when it was cut.



And these are my two seeds, Red Cherry Berry and Vanilla Kush. They were placed in the rockwool 9 days ago.


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## Bluejeans (Oct 24, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> You do realize that my Alice is 2 days into week 6 of flowering...she's quite advanced.


Here's a pic of most of the base of Alice. You can see I didn't have much to choose from to even take a clone. I might have gotten the only stem with a couple of inches on it that wasn't one of the main few.


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## gudkarma (Oct 25, 2011)

4 cuts were grown in mapito.

rooted & right into flower. simple sauce w/o much drama.

= real close to 3 dry zips & change <=== my estimation from the great shrinking game (experience from years of watching my shit dry up).

nearly one DRY zip per cut... i did say nearly. 

BUT im working on my goal : one dry zip per cut in flower. 16 cuts down at any one time & harvesting every three weeks.

one elbow dry & ready for care (ahem, flip) every month. 

average grow & show is one month veg & two flower, yes? 
& gud should be taking 3 elbows from only 1600w of light in that time.

huh?

first time in mapito & real close. watch me now!

* 

northern lights blue. taken 7 to 10 days early.

i left the blueberry leaning cuts on the table as they look to go a full 8.5... but the nugs are outstanding super dense spear heads on those.
^ are mine 

shown are the nugs from the NL leaning phenos, they run about 50 to 57 days depending on your flow.
^ are for the flip

one more week would have been better, but i just couldn't wait 

finger prints removed on the nug shot ...cause ...well ...fuck the police.

*

: northern lights blue , delicious seeds : 

great yield. not a heavy feeder. not fickle. fast finish. lovely odor. good stoney smoke. fairly frosty. yummy taste. cheap beans with 100% germ rate. fast rooting. good in veg. responds to lst, fim, supercrop. does well in soil, coco, hydroton, and rockwool <===yes i did them all

B+ for the snobs who dont grow

gud gives it an A- for the entire experience

& if you check my sig : you CAN NOT taste the color blue.


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## Bluejeans (Oct 26, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> View attachment 1853681


This little gal is real trooper, just like her Mom. I sure as heck wish I knew what strain she was because she's gotta be the hardiest thing out there. 70 hours after being removed from Mom, Alicina is still standing tall and firm with absolutely zero signs of fatigue or wilting. I couldn't help myself...I cracked open the rockwool to see how the stem was doing and I'm pleased to report little nubs all up and down the bottom half of the stem. That little gal is gonna make it!

Her Mom's story: Alice was adopted when she was barely into flower. So she got moved from her home to a temporary spot for 12 hours, then on to my house. Her 12/12 timing got changed during the move, and got adjusted several more times during ther life. She never faltered. She was placed into a spot that was not ideal but she had her light (a 40w CFL = 150w) and that was about it. 

Then I got creative and built a bigger light - 8 bulbs of 27w CFL=100w ea 2700k. Then I added ventilation and temp controls to her room. She did well... Then I repotted her...and that was major mistake Part A, major mistake Part B was that I chose MiracleGro potting soil with time release nutes. They were too much for her and now she gets nute burn every time I water her. I've flushed her heartily a couple of times and she enjoys that, but then experiences hot soil issues. Poor gal.

Then, I got my hydro system ready to set up, but Alice was in the spot designed for this system. So she got shifted again...this time to a 36x32 inch box with 2 65w CFL = 300w each. But it got too hot in there after lights out when I closed up the box and her humidity was over 90% nearly every morning. It would dry out during the day, but rise again at night as she got closed into the box. Finally, I got my hands on a PC fan (y'all gotta remember, I'm very new and learning as I go) and wired that into Alice's box and she's been happy as a clam for the past 8-10 days. 

So, through all that, I'm sure the yield has suffered tremendously, If I get anything I can smoke, I'll be proud... but future plants for years to come will benefit from the experience I gained with Alice. Now, with Alicina, I can find out more about what Alice's real potential might have been. To have survived at all, she's gotta be a pretty stable cookie!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 27, 2011)

Awesome work gk mate, you've deffo got the right idea for this thread with the grow reports your doin here with us fella. Props & Respect for your continued support in this, and keep on bringing us your insights and reports too my friend, those posts will deffo help people out with deciding on what to grow next for themselves . 

Big Thanx to everyone for making this the thread it is becoming, keep on bringing us the dankage!! 
I'll have more "Bud Porn" real soon too as I've just harvested and have been snapping plenty of pic's


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## petedav (Oct 27, 2011)

hi nice thread skunk,
im about to start a run but not sure wich 1 to do,
larry og / tahoe og
i need to pic your brain? on a few factors,
oder=smell?
yield?
hermie?
difficulty growing ie lots of nutes or not so mutch?
bugs?
tall/short
easy or hard to clone as
im planing on growing 22 clones at a time?
ive been told you like and know all about thease cali conection og kushes? looking forward for your rep +


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 27, 2011)

petedav said:


> hi nice thread skunk,
> im about to start a run but not sure wich 1 to do,
> larry og / tahoe og
> i need to pic your brain? on a few factors,
> ...


Thanx mate, I'm still to get to Larry myself but Tahoe OG I've had some exp' with and can help you there.
The smell is quite strong and may well be a problem if you haven't got a carbon filter running, your yeild will vary depending on many factors like: wattage of lights, veg time and training you do i.e. LST and/or supercroppin. But the yeild is about good to over average I'd say overall. Herimes & Bugs/pests weren't an issue whatsoever in the Tahoe OG and overall were very stable plants to grow & pretty easy to clone from too. They can take the nutes pretty well once fully established and like many of the og's they do stretch x2/x3 their original veg size but remain very manageable tbh. This is an uber frosty & fun plant to grow and I highly recommend it too, still one of my fav's. Only thing I'd say she needs more than most is extra help with calcium in the feeds as she does have a tendencey to get cal' diff' quite easy. Other than that Tahoe OG doesn't need any special requirements and can be grown by all skill levels of growers too.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 27, 2011)

*Grape Stomper X ChemD-OG ~ @ Day#61 (Day#110 total).

*Some more Bud Porn for you all to enjoy, this beuity here looking all sunkissed and sparkling is pictured just before harvest... 


*





































































































*Thanx for looking 
I'll have an update on the BlooGoo later too, 3 females outta 4 .


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 27, 2011)

Speeechless skunk that is some tue fire right there!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 27, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Speeechless skunk that is some tue fire right there!!


Thanx mate, much love & respect my friend.
I can't wait to smoke through some of this girl, gonna be a strong one too if the smell is anything to go by fella , expect more pic's of the dried product soon. I just wish you guys could smell this bitch .


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Oct 28, 2011)

Damn Skunk. I'm jealous.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 28, 2011)

BatMaN SKuNK said:


> Damn Skunk. I'm jealous.


Coming from a fella who sets the standard in Bud Pornage that means a lot mate, thanx 
And feel free to add in some of your work for us to drool over here this is a multi growers thread and your contributions would be an honour to have in here with us .


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## Bluejeans (Oct 28, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> *Grape Stomper X ChemD-OG ~ @ Day#61 (Day#110 total).
> 
> *Some more Bud Porn for you all to enjoy, this beuity here looking all sunkissed and sparkling is pictured just before harvest...
> 
> ...


OMG...that was the best sex I've had all month. I got a head rush just scrolling down the screen. 

I tried to +rep you for that one, but apparently I need to spread the love


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## karmas a bitch (Oct 28, 2011)

Skunkie as usual made props. Ill be adding soon but all I have as of right now is kiddie porn. Lol
Are they makin that cross available?


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 28, 2011)

DAAAAMN skunk you shoulda call that thick bitch BEYONCE lol


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 28, 2011)

karmas a bitch said:


> Smoke as usual made props. Ill be adding soon but all I have as of right now is kiddie porn. Lol
> Are they makin that cross available?


I'm pretty sure they will do tbh mate as Keyplay has been fixing up the parent strains a little more to make the strain more stable and the new batch are in testing now, so expect to hear more soon. The one in my run there was from the 1st batch and were very unstable too, 5/6 females all produced male pre-flowers along with the pistells on each node in early flower. Full on hermies so it was back to the drawing board with it lol. Once tested the new batch of Grape Stomper X ChemD-OG will hit the seedbanks once proved as being 100% stable. 
A good "net" friend of mine and a top grower to boot is handling the new test batch. I'm gonna get him over here too, another great mind to add in to the collection .



smokeymcpotz said:


> DAAAAMN skunk you shoulda call that thick bitch BEYONCE lol


[video=youtube;0_lrKhmx2WU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_lrKhmx2WU[/video]


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## cmt1984 (Oct 28, 2011)

munkie that is amazing. great work as always.

here are a few things i dug out. first is my gorilla grape lady when she was just a week or so old and already turning colors, next is that same gorilla grape when i sexed her...she was about 14 days in to 12/12, then there is a cheese quake bud and then 2 shots of some black rose x double purple doja.


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## gudkarma (Oct 28, 2011)

wow. skunie. wtf! nigz you a legend. i laughed at that shit till seeing your hand as perspective. now i feel all stupid for even doubting that work's fATneSS.

wow. cmt. color. totally different texture to skunies work which shows us the diverse beauty of budz, great contradiction & contrast, nice frost & yummy factor like pussy galore. 

*

i cant stop laughing at that video too... what a fuc*king f*g. LOL.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanx fellas, the pic's came out kinda bright due to an unusual sunny day here lol and I had a rough time due to the glare too, but all in all they came out ok I reckon. 
CMT those purples are too sexy my friend, thanx for sharing more with us, I noticed you mention Cheese Quake... Whats your take on her mate?? I liked the flavour but found the potencey in the high seriously lacking for my tastes. First & only TGA strain I've grown and tbh my exp' with the CQ put me off trying anymore lol. But now I'm looking into trying another and may take a shot at Querkle at some point.


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Oct 28, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Thanx fellas, the pic's came out kinda bright due to an unusual sunny day here lol and I had a rough time due to the glare too, but all in all they came out ok I reckon.
> CMT those purples are too sexy my friend, thanx for sharing more with us, I noticed you mention Cheese Quake... Whats your take on her mate?? I liked the flavour but found the potencey in the high seriously lacking for my tastes. First & only TGA strain I've grown and tbh my exp' with the CQ put me off trying anymore lol. But now I'm looking into trying another and may take a shot at Querkle at some point.


If you want a potent TGA strain with great taste, try Chernobyl. One of my all time favs. Fuely lime diesel JTR haze phenos are easy to come by. Theherbalizor did a great test thread here.
It's a great thread. It sold me b4 I picked up a pack.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 29, 2011)

Cheers BmS, I'll check that thread out mate.


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## gudkarma (Oct 29, 2011)

1) afghan kush and the last few week push

2) legion og : pheno B , about one more week 

3) finally got some (nutrified) coco ; transplants galore & reorganized the strains


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## Bluejeans (Oct 30, 2011)

gudkarma said:


> 3) finally got some (nutrified) coco ; transplants galore & reorganized the strains


What's nutrified coco and how do you use it? I know that coco is a growing medium, but is it for hydro or is it a soil replacement? I haven't gotten settled on my "perfect" system yet and frankly I'm driving myself crazy changing my mind all the time. I really just wanna quit my life and spend all my time growing everything in every medium, but unless I am in line for some wicked inheritance that I didn't know about, that's probably not going to happen, so I'll just have to learn stuff one thing at a time. Bummer.

That said, here's the recent pictures of what's going on in my bathroom... the first one is Alice, waiting out her last week in her box. Then there's the Red Cherry Berry and the Vanilla Kush. 

I'm not sure what's going on with the VK's first set of leaves...they look terrible but the first real leaves look fine. And the RCB has outsized the VK by nearly double! I let the reservoir get a little too warm the first few days and I think that's what caused the crinkling on the RCB's first set of leaves and contributed to the issues with the VK. But both seem to be doing fine now. 

And the last picture is the clone of Alice, taken at just over 6 weeks flowering. The clone is doing fine and actually looking pretty good (despite appearances). She has several 1/4" roots and is really perking up after her adaptive stage.


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## MonsterOG (Oct 30, 2011)

Hey what's up guys and gals. I just want to contribute to this epic thread with some porn to drool at... 

I run a 2400w main flower room and a 600w &400w test tent to test genetics.
























Blackwater #1 green pheno (Mendo purp x SFV OG)


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## MonsterOG (Oct 30, 2011)

DeadHead OG (chem 91 skunk va cut x SFV OG)


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## itslogics (Oct 30, 2011)

monster are you the one growing all those deadhead's on GGG's forum? Also I want to know how the smell, flavor, and potency is like on those deadheads, I've been looking at that strain for quite a while now.


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## MonsterOG (Oct 30, 2011)

itslogics said:


> monster are you the one growing all those deadhead's on GGG's forum? Also I want to know how the smell, flavor, and potency is like on those deadheads, I've been looking at that strain for quite a while now.


Yep I have a thread over there and CC forums called Revenge of the DeadHeads. Thanks for noticing brudda. The smell is a really thick chemmy smell. Thick like milk. But just like a chemical spill but apealing to the nose. Not fruitiness at all. The flavor is a little harder to describe but if I could compare it to somethjng I'd have to say it does taste like OG in a way. But its a very OG cross being the chem 91 was a parent of OG or something like that so it takes on a very close characteristic to OG. The potency is pretty good. I think I've grown up a tolerance to it. Ive been growing it since February. But its really good medicine. When I make edibles nd concentrates with it, it really messes me up. It's got really Hugh thc content. If I got this tested I'm almost positive it'd test above %15 for sure. Maybe higher


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## MonsterOG (Oct 30, 2011)

[video=youtube;VhpwgDJZGr8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhpwgDJZGr8[/video]


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## itslogics (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks for replying back monster, hopefully you'll stay here and with us on roll it up! Great work on the deadheads! I'm definetly picking this strain up next.


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## MonsterOG (Oct 31, 2011)

I get a little intimidated by big communities but ill definitely be in this thread often. Later Homie


Monster


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 31, 2011)

Thats my boy OG, glad you made it over here mate. The communitys a 'lil bigger than most are but there are some great people here on this site and it's good to have you here with us. Once you get to know everybody you'll feel right at home here fella .

@"itslogics" I've grown out the DeadHead too mate and I did a smoke report here >>> https://www.rollitup.org/smoke-reports/407024-deadhead-og-cali-connection.html
First report I did too so it's not as detailed as I do them now, but gets the job done. I noticed you @DankHouse too did you ever pull the trigger on any of their gear yet?? I have DB-OG in flower now and also I've just started off some Strawberry Alien Kush too. I'm very impressed by the quality Doc is putting out.


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## MonsterOG (Oct 31, 2011)

Hey bro!. Thanks for telling me about this thread. I'm glad I can be apart of it.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 31, 2011)

MonsterOG said:


> Hey bro!. Thanks for telling me about this thread. I'm glad I can be apart of it.


Welcome to the family lol, here's a top thread where all the heads are hanging >>> https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/398053-seed-collectors-thread.html, it's a long one but a thread where we all seem to visit hourly .
Lotta like minded folks, you'll fit right in with us mate.


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 31, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Welcome to the family lol, here's a top thread where all the heads are hanging >>> https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/398053-seed-collectors-thread.html, it's a long one but a thread where we all seem to visit hourly .
> Lotta like minded folks, you'll fit right in with us mate.


Might be adding to the family soon i jus invited mellokitty and others to check this thread and seed collectors thread out.


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## greengenez (Oct 31, 2011)

@skunkMunkie.
I also picked up the dbl barrel, still waiting on them though. Hopin' it's wicked good. 
how tall were yours when you put them to flower? Any thoughts on them?


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 31, 2011)

Here's my DB-OG's just after I transplanted a few weeks ago...







Easy to feed and loves to be topped & supercropped and are looking nice and strong so far too.
I've got another fresh round of pic's I need to label up and upload later on tonight, so I'll have a fresh update on these soon.


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## mellokitty (Oct 31, 2011)

fuck i love it when the strainwhores BRING IT. ("strainwhore", btw, is a term of endearment in kitty's universe.)
thanks for the invite, smokey. fantastic thread you guys have going on here, much applause.

from my most recent harvest: (og kush, not sure which cut, lucky as hell just to have it in the first place )


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 31, 2011)

Very nice MelloKitty, your among friends here. Thats sweet as phuck and 5 star dankage, got anymore for us?? I loves me a sweet OG, Oh yeah!!  Hows she smoke or are you still to sample her??
Thanx for joining the thread with us


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## mellokitty (Oct 31, 2011)

thanks for the warm welcome, skunkie. i'm finding the high a bit "makes you stupid" for my taste (i prefer to be not _completely_ *duuuuhhh.....*); but the patients eat it up (literally) - "sure it makes me stupid, but so do my migraines. i'd rather be stupid high than stupid in pain." fair enough.


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## mellokitty (Oct 31, 2011)

any of you strainwhores growing anything that gets pretty pink pistils around week 4/5? one of the first strains i ever grew did that, but i don't know what kind of cross it was.....


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## smokeymcpotz (Oct 31, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> any of you strainwhores growing anything that gets pretty pink pistils around week 4/5? one of the first strains i ever grew did that, but i don't know what kind of cross it was.....


Sounds like bubblegum but thats jus a guess..


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## Bluejeans (Oct 31, 2011)

So this is my little Red Cherry Berry. She is 12 days from seed. I want to FIM her, but I don't know when I should...


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 31, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> So this is my little Red Cherry Berry. She is 12 days from seed. I want to FIM her, but I don't know when I should...


She's ready to go


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 31, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> any of you strainwhores growing anything that gets pretty pink pistils around week 4/5? one of the first strains i ever grew did that, but i don't know what kind of cross it was.....


It may be happening due to the cooler temp's??


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Oct 31, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> It may be happening due to the cooler temp's??


In some strains it's just genetic. Like Sputnik (My current infatuation), who was called Pinky.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 31, 2011)

BatMaN SKuNK said:


> In some strains it's just genetic. Like Sputnik (My current infatuation), who was called Pinky.


Very true mate, I just thought with the season change it may not be one of the strains traits though. Pink hues to the flowers sure sound and look sexy whatever the cause lol. But it helps to narrow down the ID'ing process to some degree. I love the look of the pink pheno in Plushberry too, bag appeal on her will be off the charts, buyers near me would snap that up in a flash.


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## Bluejeans (Oct 31, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> She's ready to go


Well, I did it! I was very nervous and didn't cut enough at first, so I pinched with my fingertips and decided that was the better method because I could feel the top of the stem to pinch it off. I think I did this right...we'll see in a few days! She's been growing super fast, I swear, every time I go back there, she's bigger. The Vanilla Kush is now less than half the size of the RCB. I guess it's because they are different strains because both appear very healthy. I still don't have a ppm meter, but I pushed the nutes up to 3/4 strength this week. They seem to like it and have responded by growing even faster, specially RCB. This strain is proving quite fun to grow!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 31, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Well, I did it! I was very nervous and didn't cut enough at first, so I pinched with my fingertips and decided that was the better method because I could feel the top of the stem to pinch it off. I think I did this right...we'll see in a few days! She's been growing super fast, I swear, every time I go back there, she's bigger. The Vanilla Kush is now less than half the size of the RCB. I guess it's because they are different strains because both appear very healthy. I still don't have a ppm meter, but I pushed the nutes up to 3/4 strength this week. They seem to like it and have responded by growing even faster, specially RCB. This strain is proving quite fun to grow!


lol yeah it is better to do the topping by hand tbh, and if you miss the FIM it's a full "topping" so either way you'll get multiple tops come flower time so it's all good. Glad to hear your having fun and imo thats a great approach to growing in general and your plants will feed from your energy and interaction too. Gentlely stroke those leaf fingers & stems and show them your love . Gotta treat them like the fine ass ladies they are .


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## THESkunkMunkie (Oct 31, 2011)

_*^^ Flower Room!!*_

Got an update first on these *Double Barrel OG* _@ Day #60_.... 
"P#2" & "P#3" turned out to be males and so "P#4" has been put into play now, which soon showed to be female. Thats 2 outta 4 girls and the 2 fellas have now been binned. "P#1" is 14 days in and is really getting her stretch on atm, I haven't S/C'ed this one and decided to leave her be. "P#4" is 7 days in and has been given more training though and is responding great too. Outta the 2 I've cloned "#4" for keeper as I only have space for one of these and have chosen her out for a mother.

*Nutes/levels for flower:
Week#1*_ ~ A+B, "N","Cal", rhizo', C'zym ~ *E.C-1.4, ph-5.8/6.0
Week#2* ~ A+B, "N","Cal", C'zym ~ *E.C-1.5, ph-5.8/6.0*_































_*^^ "P#1" - @ Day #60 ~ Flower Day #14*_































_*^^ "P#4" - @ Day #60 ~ Flower Day #7*_






_*^^ "BlooGoo" ~ P#1 (left) & P#2 (right)*_

Next up it's ~ *BlooGoo* _@ Flower Day #14_, on the same feed reigeme as the DB-OG's. These are all un-topped and have just been tacked down to the side of the pots with a bent out to shape paper clip, to promote more of the lower growth to come out & upwards while leaving that phatt main cola stem intact.
Smelling very strongly of hash and fruits mainly a berry odor thats sweet & refreshing too. I've also cloned both the bigger 2 as I have a very good feeling about these...





















_*^^ P#1 @ Flower Day#14*_





















_*^^ P#2 @ Flower Day#14*_
















_*^^ P#3 @ Flower Day#1*_






_*^^ "FireStarter" ~ "P#1" (left) & "P#2" (right)*_

And last but not least... Here's a quick update on my 2 ~ *FireStarter'*s _@ Day #60_. 
Both are now transplanted and are now rockin along in my flower room. Both have been S/C'ed and have also been cloned too. Gonna be a great upcoming show from these I'm betting.
*Nutes/levels for flower:
Week#1*_ ~ A+B, "N","Cal", rhizo', C'zym ~ *E.C-1.5, ph-5.8/6.0*_































*^^ "P#1" ~ Flower Day #10*











_*^^ "P#2" ~ Flower Day #1*_

I'll have more as soon as they're ready...
Thanx for looking, Stay Up!!


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Oct 31, 2011)

Hella nice Skunk. What's the make up of Blue Goo? Those Firestarters look great.I have to get me some of those.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 31, 2011)

Nice man!!! even got some early fan leaf frost


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## MonsterOG (Oct 31, 2011)

Hey mellokitty! Your OG is beautiful! It looks a lot like a rascal.cut maybe. And I sent you a friend request and subbed to your YouTube channel. Your garden is a amazing one! AAA+++


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## mellokitty (Nov 1, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Very true mate, I just thought with the season change it may not be one of the strains traits though. Pink hues to the flowers sure sound and look sexy whatever the cause lol. But it helps to narrow down the ID'ing process to some degree. I love the look of the pink pheno in Plushberry too, bag appeal on her will be off the charts, buyers near me would snap that up in a flash.


yeah, i doubt it was the temps, we had 3 strains in that room and it was the only one that did that. this was also almost 15 years ago and we ran that strain for just under 2 years and it did it every time. and it was pink hairs (like, instead of white).... the plushberry is more pink calyxes, if i'm not mistaken?

edit: tell me more about this sputnik pleeeez; do you know what sort of cross she is?


----------



## mellokitty (Nov 1, 2011)

MonsterOG said:


> Hey mellokitty! Your OG is beautiful! It looks a lot like a rascal.cut maybe. And I sent you a friend request and subbed to your YouTube channel. Your garden is a amazing one! AAA+++


thanks for the warm welcome! i'm in canada so i'm lucky just to have it; i didn't even know there were different "cuts" of it until i showed up on riu.  buddy of mine (reliable source) just showed up with it and said "it's og kush. yes THAT og kush. keep it alive."


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## greengenez (Nov 1, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> _*^^ Flower Room!!*_
> 
> Got an update first on these *Double Barrel OG* _@ Day #60_....
> I'll have more as soon as they're ready...
> Thanx for looking, Stay Up!!


Thanks for the look inside. 
I will post when I have something worth showin' (soon I hope)


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## Bluejeans (Nov 1, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> lol yeah it is better to do the topping by hand tbh, and if you miss the FIM it's a full "topping" so either way you'll get multiple tops come flower time so it's all good. Glad to hear your having fun and imo thats a great approach to growing in general and your plants will feed from your energy and interaction too. Gentlely stroke those leaf fingers & stems and show them your love . Gotta treat them like the fine ass ladies they are .


I am having a ball! ...and my family thinks I've rounded the bend because I spend all my free time in the back bathroom, talking to ... ??? Okay, y'all know who I'm talking to, but the fam just doesn't get it. Even my 20 year old son (who is a pothead no less!) can't quite grasp my fascination with the growing plants. But I do pet them...I gently flick their tender stems and stroke their leaves and tickle the tiny new growth coming up in the center.

And this RCB is just amazing! As soon as she's big enough, I'm tapping her for a mother. She was a seed in a tiny plastic bag just 13 days ago and now she has four sets of leaves and across the width of the the first true set (3 leaves), she spans 7 inches! I'm just bamboozled by how fast she's growing.

I'm thinking of changing my set up though. I did my first reservoir change in my hydro system (DWC/Bubbleponics) this weekend and realized that it is a major chore and these girls are still tiny. I can't imagine how I'm going to do this when they are full size... So, I'm going to ditch the central reservoir system and move them over to 5 gallon buckets in a straight DWC setup. They have beautiful roots now and I'm going to split up the set before they start getting tangled. I am also thinking that this RCB and the Vanilla Kush are going to want some different nutes along the way as well, and that's impossible to do in a single reservoir.

Besides, my grow is rapidly expanding from the simple 3 plants I had originally intended for my first grow. As a matter of fact, what is actually going on in there bears zero resembleance to my original plan... LOL. I plan on adding several 1 - 1.5 gal soil pots to the room as soon as I get some clones rooted. Alice is in a separate box all on her own, but when she's done in there (8-10 more days), I'm going to use the box as a mother box and I will start with a mother from my RCB.

Sorry for the long, probably boring post...I had a bowl for breakfast and sativa makes me creative (and rambling, apparently) ...After I smoke a bit, I start building shit or rearranging shit or designing new and impossible to build shit that I expect my hubby to fabricate by the next evening. 

So take it easy RIU, I'm off to earn a living so I can come home and really live!


----------



## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 1, 2011)

BatMaN SKuNK said:


> Hella nice Skunk. What's the make up of Blue Goo? Those Firestarters look great.I have to get me some of those.


The BlooGoo I haven't any clue about tbh mate, I got them from the main trade list at 'nettic's on an impulse due to the name just calling out to me lol. I'm guessing it's Afgoo/afghani X Blueberry but I could be wrong...
Also your mail box at the batcave holds some fire for you


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 1, 2011)

There are a few great growers that need to be in here.. Im gonna try and make that happen!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 1, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> There are a few great growers that need to be in here.. Im gonna try and make that happen!


Spread the good word smokey mate


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## Bluejeans (Nov 1, 2011)

I started my first grow in a hydro system with 3 pots in a central reservoir. I don't like it. I'm going to pull them this weekend and put the three plants into individual DWC buckets before their roots get too long and start tangling together.

When I do this, I will free up some space in the grow room and I have some other things I want to throw in there. But I want to do some soil or coco pots as well as the 3 DWC buckets.

So what's your recipe for success?


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## gudkarma (Nov 1, 2011)

coco + perlite = awesome

ammend with some myco & bacto.

hit with a little enzyme & kelp tea every now & then.

so far this run of coco for me is looking pretty good... way better than the last.

excellent forum for coco learning : https://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65577

i hate bugs so coco is like a dream come true to me. 

plus, unlike the shit ton of dirt i'd need on the reg, i can carry 120 liters of coco in the house w/ one hand & zero stealth needed.

win win. love it.


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## itslogics (Nov 1, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Thats my boy OG, glad you made it over here mate. The communitys a 'lil bigger than most are but there are some great people here on this site and it's good to have you here with us. Once you get to know everybody you'll feel right at home here fella .
> 
> @"itslogics" I've grown out the DeadHead too mate and I did a smoke report here >>> https://www.rollitup.org/smoke-reports/407024-deadhead-og-cali-connection.html
> First report I did too so it's not as detailed as I do them now, but gets the job done. I noticed you @DankHouse too did you ever pull the trigger on any of their gear yet?? I have DB-OG in flower now and also I've just started off some Strawberry Alien Kush too. I'm very impressed by the quality Doc is putting out.


Yea I actually picked up the strawberry alien kush too, I haven't done anything with them yet, but soon I will maybe a next few months. Haha skunkie I seem to see you on many forums also! I can't wait to see how your DB OG turns out, looks like a killer strain


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 2, 2011)

itslogics said:


> Yea I actually picked up the strawberry alien kush too, I haven't done anything with them yet, but soon I will maybe a next few months. Haha skunkie I seem to see you on many forums also! I can't wait to see how your DB OG turns out, looks like a killer strain


I too have noticed you around the many boards lol, most recently @DankHouse, I do get around fella. My SAK are only babies atm and I'll include them in this thread as soon as I have something worth showing. The DB-OG was my first buy from CZ too, soon as I saw it I pulled the trigger lol. Glad I did too tbh . 

I'm all for the Coco atm too, ever since I made the switch early this year lifes been much easier. lol Rockwool cubes/slabs are a major pain to dispose of after use. Hey gk this will make you chuckle mate...
A friend of mine tried getting rid of R/w by burning it, I paid the fool to dump it all and bury it for me out of the way, and he came back later that day and said, "it's not burning why??" , just can't get the staff these days eh?? .


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 2, 2011)

Im trying to pull the trigger on double og and strawberry fire but cant get mr c to email me back 
Im sitting here tripping over not being able to order up lol


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## greengenez (Nov 2, 2011)

My dbl barrels came yesterday. Plus a bonus. Puttin' them down today.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 2, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Im trying to pull the trigger on double og and strawberry fire but cant get mr c to email me back
> Im sitting here tripping over not being able to order up lol


Be paitient mate, it's only 10:20am here in the UK atm and the big guy will be in bed I reckon lol. Soon as he gets on he'll hit you back, probabbly later today no doubt. Is it your first order??



greengenez said:


> My dbl barrels came yesterday. Plus a bonus. Puttin' them down today.


Nice one mate are you gonna log the grow here with us too??


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## Bluejeans (Nov 2, 2011)

Been busy, busy, busy this morning!



Trimmed, prepped and planted 13 clones today.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 2, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Be paitient mate, it's only 10:20am here in the UK atm and the big guy will be in bed I reckon lol. Soon as he gets on he'll hit you back, probabbly later today no doubt. Is it your first order??
> 
> 
> 
> Nice one mate are you gonna log the grow here with us too??


Yah its my first order


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 2, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yah its my first order


You'll hear from him soon, don't worry too much about it mate. They have things running solid & on form at CZ .


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## greengenez (Nov 2, 2011)

Nice one mate are you gonna log the grow here with us too?? [/QUOTE]
I was thinkin of doin a log over there, but they will show up in my log here mixed with others, I'm thinkin I will prob turn my dope journal to perpetual log.


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## gudkarma (Nov 2, 2011)

little update...

pic 1) afghan kush pumping up @ week 5 , my ho's all lined up nice

pic 2, 3 & 4) houston shoreline (clone only) , DumpleStilskin

pics 5 & 6) northern lights x blueberry , Mrs. Bushy Mc Nugs


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## skunkd0c (Nov 2, 2011)

hey skunkM nice thread m8 , lots of great pics, i only have one plant left in flower at the moment, she is pretty big @ week 13 now 
all the rest of the pheno's and the flav came down at week 9 

(angel heart) mangohaze x afghan skunk

peace


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 3, 2011)

@Skunkd0c, thanx for posting these ~ Angel Heart is one off those haze strains I've always had my eye on but am still to get to really. I love the long spiraling haze flowers on show there and she really has filled out great too. Has she got much longer left in her. I love a hazy satty girl every now and then, but the flower times can be offputting for many to put the time in. I'm planing to start off some old skool Columbian Gold in January, I should have some ready to smoke by the end of next summer lol.


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## konagirl420 (Nov 3, 2011)

Awesome man so glad to see all the wonderful genetics!!!!!!! Subbed!!!!


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## HobbyAddict (Nov 3, 2011)

Nice thread! I'm working on getting a real cam, but i'll put this pic up for now. When I get the cam i'll be posting alot more pics! I have 2 1k watt 12/12 rooms. One is in a large closet, the other in a tent. Here is a shot of the closet with sog Critical + running. 4 phenos atm...


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 3, 2011)

konagirl420 said:


> Awesome man so glad to see all the wonderful genetics!!!!!!! Subbed!!!!


Come back anytime.. actually i wouldn't mind seeing whats under your lights!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 3, 2011)

Okay, so my son brought home a quarter of mersh...some pretty basic looking street weed with a few seeds and a fair ratio of stems. Ugly stuff...$40 a quarter. 

He has solid instructions that any seeds he finds or aquires while living under my roof are automatically mine...my house has "mineral rights".  He is a good boy and placed 4 little seeds on my desk yesterday.

Last night, when winding down for the evening, I asked him for a bowl pack of his mersh. That stuff kicked my butt! I had one small bowl (3-4 hits) and my whole body was buzzing and I had a nice clear-headed high...exactly what I look for in a weed since I have back pains.

So, instead of throwing these seeds in with my generic bagseed collection, I wrote up a quick "smoke report" and put these four in a separate little container.

Now here's what I'm wondering...

If this stuff was nice to smoke even though it was seedy and poorly prepped, can I assume that if I grow out a female from these seeds, that it would be even better stuff than the bagweed the seed came from?

By my reckoning, if that plant spent energies making seeds and still cranked out a good high, then a plant of the same stock that isn't allowed (required) to make seeds would expend even more energy toward making a potent smoke. Is my logic flawed? What's been your experience with bag seeds?


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 3, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Okay, so my son brought home a quarter of mersh...some pretty basic looking street weed with a few seeds and a fair ratio of stems. Ugly stuff...$40 a quarter.
> 
> He has solid instructions that any seeds he finds or aquires while living under my roof are automatically mine...my house has "mineral rights".  He is a good boy and placed 4 little seeds on my desk yesterday.
> 
> ...


Im sure there are a thousand opinions about this but imo if you have the room give it a try jus dont have high expectations until uve grown it and smoked it. Its a gamble so.... Good luck!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 3, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Im sure there are a thousand opinions about this but imo if you have the room give it a try jus dont have high expectations until uve grown it and smoked it. Its a gamble so.... Good luck!


Oh, I'm _gonna_ try it. Someday... I grow for my own use mostly so if I get something smokable, I win! One I get a bug up my ass about something, I have to play it out or drive myself insane. I'll eventually grow these out and see how they compare to the original "smoke report" I wrote for myself.


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## skunkd0c (Nov 3, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> @Skunkd0c, thanx for posting these ~ Angel Heart is one off those haze strains I've always had my eye on but am still to get to really. I love the long spiraling haze flowers on show there and she really has filled out great too. Has she got much longer left in her. I love a hazy satty girl every now and then, but the flower times can be offputting for many to put the time in. I'm planing to start off some old skool Columbian Gold in January, I should have some ready to smoke by the end of next summer lol.



Thanks skunkM thanks for the welcome m8 

I have had my eye on columbian gold myself, and also malawi gold 
like you i much prefer growing plants that are 9-10 weeks in flower, all my other angel pheno's and the flav were ready at 9 weeks, 

just this last one who is very much a pure sativa on the mango side , i decided not to keep this pheno ages ago as its just not pratical for my needs, although i am looking forward to smoking it, 
i doubt i will be growing anymore 15-16 week hazes in the near future after this one

this mango pheno could keep growing past 16 weeks i reckon, i have been bringing down the photoperiod from 12 to 11 now at 10 hours to help speed maturing up 

i have cuttings that will be rooted soon, so i will need the space, i will do my best to let her have 15 weeks, so she has about 2 weeks left to finish off before the clones move in 
the mango is getting evicted to make-way for my orange pheno of angelheart, 
i like the orange pheno alot she has a great taste and a nice amount of resin cant wait to get her growing as a clone

the colas on the mango on the surface keep growing, and will put out new growth until its chopped, the develpment of the colas inside seems more mature, i have been checking them for bud root, sofar so good they have got pretty fat and solid inside overall it should be a large yield, my flav plant yielded around 8 oz , the mango is a fair bit bigger so i am expecting a bit more than 8 from her

few pics of the winning angel heart (orange pheno) before she was chopped and the finished nugs

peace folks


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## colocowboy (Nov 3, 2011)

bbbbbbrrrrrrrrrruhurhur....................bit frosty up in here 
baked on those pics, definitely plenty to see around here


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## gudkarma (Nov 3, 2011)

1-4 : current lab shots

5 & 6 : nl x bb nugz

7 & 8 : afghan kush

9 : new addition today , 6" filter near dry area on a 600 cfm fan w/ speed control , running 3 carbon filters now staggered by date so i never have to worry about any one filter going bad.

10 : my new obsession , growing in maipto (dutch) , 1x1 rockwool cubes mixed with 1x1 sure to grow medium (they use regular PU foam).


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 3, 2011)

@skunkd0c, those have helped me make up my mind up now mate. I'm growing some Angel Heart in with my spring sativa run next year now for definate!! You knocked those outta the park, gorgeous Bud Porn and the nugz there, mmm the nugz what more can I say other than wowsers!! lol yeah but seriously mate thats some potent looking satty bud right there . Thanx for posting more of your work and don't be shy of showing us more from your garden of weeden too . Thats work to be seen imo my friend.


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## skunkd0c (Nov 3, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> @skunkd0c, those have helped me make up my mind up now mate. I'm growing some Angel Heart in with my spring sativa run next year now for definate!! You knocked those outta the park, gorgeous Bud Porn and the nugz there, mmm the nugz what more can I say other than wowsers!! lol yeah but seriously mate thats some potent looking satty bud right there . Thanx for posting more of your work and don't be shy of showing us more from your garden of weeden too . Thats work to be seen imo my friend.


Hey thanks m8, i would recommend angel heart the seeds seem pretty good value to me at around £50 ..for 18 seeds when ssh and mangohaze are twice that price 
angel heart does have a nice selection of phenotypes, most will have a tall sativa structure, but varying hybrid bud development with some pure sativa types too

from incense smelling haze / cat pissy ammonia haze, with some fruity pheno's too on the orange / peach/apricot side 
i had another one that had a very strong petrol smell , also there will be some pure sativa /pure mango phenotypes 
the mango haze really dominates this cross with its haze type bud structure and flavours, the afgan presence is there speeding things up a little and making the buds more dense with most of the pheno's and a nice hash flavour in the background of a couple of the pheno's 

this is the type of strain where it would really help if you could grow out as many as possible to get a nice number of females to select from to find the best of both the afgan and mango genes and hopefully find something really special 
on the mr nice forum they are calling angel heart the tastiest 9 weeker around 
im not so sure about that, but it does have some very nice flavors 
the potency of all the pheno's is high too the yield is not so consistent

peace m8


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 3, 2011)

Nice I've been looking at the mns haze selection for my haze run outside nest year if I can get the yard ready I'm growing a screening fence right now and if it's most of the way ready by then I'll be plantin some. Just not sure what yet I'll be lookin at angel heart for sure. Those were some damn proper lookin buds. I love me some good haze


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## MonsterOG (Nov 3, 2011)

I'm not gonna have any new bud porn for a few weeks so I'm just running thru some older pics from grows this year....


Blackwater pheno #3 AKA "Black Mamba"


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## skunkd0c (Nov 3, 2011)

such a wide selection of haze to choose from at mr nice, imo its the place to go for haze but hard to pic which ones to grow
the afghan haze looks very nice a 50/50 cross of haze and afghan, lots of very unique phenotypes in that one 
speaking to growers who have grown out many of the mns range, its the afghan haze they speak of, although the winning pheno's lean much towards the sativa side 12-14 weeks +


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## colocowboy (Nov 3, 2011)

Damn, nothing wrong with that Blackwater!
spec ops buds for sure!

Sick dude!


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 3, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> The BlooGoo I haven't any clue about tbh mate, I got them from the main trade list at 'nettic's on an impulse due to the name just calling out to me lol. I'm guessing it's Afgoo/afghani X Blueberry but I could be wrong...
> Also your mail box at the batcave holds some fire for you


I had to put it out this morning with the bat hose. Hella nice Skunk. Strawberry Bubba has left the building.. err cave.


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## konagirl420 (Nov 3, 2011)

Hahaha I love the pics everyone, everything looks super yummy!!!!!!!!! I was just talking about getting blackwater.....not sure yet!!!!!! I def have pics on my thread, in the process of getting my new place set-up, I will get some together and post them!!!!!


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## MonsterOG (Nov 3, 2011)

Did you get a chance to see the green pheno of the Blackwater a few pages back? iMO the green frosty pheno is the keeper hands down. The purple is ok but there nothing compared to the flavor AMD smell of that green pheno


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## konagirl420 (Nov 3, 2011)

Hell yeah would love any of them hehehehe!!!!!! and somebody I know has a cut of plushberry


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 3, 2011)

Afghan haze has my interest as well as the master kaze Im also really interested in his nordle and shit, I've pretty much got all his other keepers at least in my book his widow and medicine man aka white rhino. I jus need the shark shock the afore mentioned strains and the super silver haze his mango haze and the afghan haze for sure it's gonna be a bit before I grab any or run em but they are on my list for sure


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## kbz (Nov 3, 2011)

god damn! thats some serious trichome action you got goin. Good shit.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 4, 2011)

"Nordle" is Howards old smugglers code name for hash .


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

Indeed and it's a suprememly heavy afghan all I could find on it was one you tube vid and god damn some beast lookin plants I love some fuckin kill afghani


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## mellokitty (Nov 4, 2011)

you know what? i join this thread and all of a sudden i'm getting PMs from someone i've only ever talked to in this thread saying someone else is using my name to try to sell their seeds, and won't tell me who.

until i get to the bottom of this, i'm out. 

edit: sorry to be buzzkill everybody, but i don't understand why a fellow strainwhore would protect a seedseller who lies about who's grown their seed out?


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 4, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> you know what? i join this thread and all of a sudden i'm getting PMs from someone i've only ever talked to in this thread saying someone else is using my name to try to sell their seeds, and won't tell me who.
> 
> until i get to the bottom of this, i'm out.
> 
> edit: sorry to be buzzkill everybody, but i don't understand why a fellow strainwhore would protect a seedseller who lies about who's grown their seed out?


Wow! Ill make sure im accurate around here might have to start coming here sober.... i say mello kitty and mean research kitty and ppl go crazy lol. well dont riot yet...
I publicly apologize for any life changing inconveniences ive caused! lmao


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 4, 2011)

I better post now before im voted off the island lol.


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## mellokitty (Nov 4, 2011)

just for the record, i DID ask a number of times whether they were sure you meant me and not some other kitty, but i never got a straight answer to that either.

anyhoo, the misunderstading is finally cleared up (thanks smokey!), kitty's all w&b-ed up and the claws are put away now. 

masterkush: (this isn't mine, i just helped trim it)


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 4, 2011)

One more>>


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

Lol news to me I thought you two were he same kitty's lol ackntoo many kitty's lol *hides under scrog screen in the corner*


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

Nice scissors i use those too


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## Bluejeans (Nov 4, 2011)

So here's what's going on at my place:

This is Alice. She enters week 8 of flowering today. I'm thinking maybe one more.



I redid my lights in the grow room, to make room for the propagator now and the clones in their pots once they are rooted. I currently have 4x 68w 2700k, 4x 27w 5500k, and 4x 26w 6500k bulbs. Each grouping of three has one of each bulb.


This one is my RCB after I FIM'd her a couple of days ago. Not sure if it took or not. There's some interested sprouting going on in that middle...



And finally, what's wrong with my VK? She does this on the bottom most set of leaves until they drop off, then starts on the next level up. This is the second set. The first ones were the single leaves that come out after the cotyledons.


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## mellokitty (Nov 4, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Lol news to me I thought you two were he same kitty's lol ackntoo many kitty's lol *hides under scrog screen in the corner*


MWA HA HA it gets even better because i hear researchkitty is 2 people (research + kitty)..... 

we're a couple too but it's always me posting.... mr mellokitty can't type worth shite.

_can i get a 'wut wut' for the fiskars.... _


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

Exactly lol that's why I was like holy what the f lol so confused ha ha not anymore though 



mellokitty said:


> MWA HA HA it gets even better because i hear researchkitty is 2 people (research + kitty).....
> 
> we're a couple too but it's always me posting.... mr mellokitty can't type worth shite.
> 
> _can i get a 'wut wut' for the fiskars.... _


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 4, 2011)

Jeans I like the cfl setup when I was in Nevada before I got busted I built one similar a fifty fifty mix of 6500 2700 cfls on outdoor lighting fixtures with the four swivel spots for bulbs I had seven of those fixtures mounted to a piece of plywood that had six 2x4 arms comn out from the sides to give me front to back rotation. Had this all hung in chains what a blast that was 7 four foot plants under 28 bulbs at 27w a piece lol ah good times it was like the sun in there the plants veged nasty fast lol. Brings back memories


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## Bluejeans (Nov 4, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Jeans I like the cfl setup when I was in Nevada before I got busted I built one similar a fifty fifty mix of 6500 2700 cfls on outdoor lighting fixtures with the four swivel spots for bulbs I had seven of those fixtures mounted to a piece of plywood that had six 2x4 arms comn out from the sides to give me front to back rotation. Had this all hung in chains what a blast that was 7 four foot plants under 28 bulbs at 27w a piece lol ah good times it was like the sun in there the plants veged nasty fast lol. Brings back memories


Part of what I love best about my CFL's is finding new and creative ways to throw in some more light. I have an entire bag full of bare sockets, splitters, extension cables with the heads cut off (for wiring the bare sockets), clips, hangers, etc. All for the sake of throwing in new lights. I have a plan that involves PVC and lamp parts to make a round vertical light to hang between plants. I LOVE CFL's


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## konagirl420 (Nov 4, 2011)

Hahaha I had a ton of cfl before my 600 came to me by boat in Hawaii hahaha!!!!!


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## mellokitty (Nov 4, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> And finally, what's wrong with my VK? She does this on the bottom most set of leaves until they drop off, then starts on the next level up. This is the second set. The first ones were the single leaves that come out after the cotyledons.
> View attachment 1870819


IF it's a deficiency, older leaves means something mobile....


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 4, 2011)

@Smokey & @Mellokitty, whats the deal if you don't mind me asking, and why was smokey talking bout being voted off!? And who's two people?? I feel like I've slipped into the twilight zone somehow but I am very smashed atm. 
When do we vote people out?? I'm not down with voting people out of anything when we're trying to build something here. 
Anywhoo it looks like it's sorted now what ever it was lol. Remember people make love not war, now where did I put my lighter....
Stay Up!!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 4, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> IF it's a deficiency, older leaves means something mobile....


I'm sorry... I don't know what that means... I'm really really new...


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 4, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> I'm sorry... I don't know what that means... I'm really really new...


From the looks of the pic it's just burn from the first introduction of nutes, is the fresh growth at the top still lookin full green?? If so don't worry they're ok I have a similar burn on my SAK's for the reason I just mentioned and they're bouncing along well now. As long as your new growth isn't showing the same issue your fine.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 4, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> From the looks of the pic it's just burn from the first introduction of nutes, is the fresh growth at the top still lookin full green?? If so don't worry they're ok I have a similar burn on my SAK's for the reason I just mentioned and they're bouncing along well now. As long as your new growth isn't showing the same issue your fine.


Okay, I feel better. It was the first intro to stronger nutes. I start seeds and clones on 1/4 nutes (with 100% success so far) but I had just bumped them up to 3/4 strength when I put them in the new 5 gal DWC buckets. The RCB took that as the pistol shot to start the race, but the VK was a little freaked out...reason #2 why I took them out of the 3 spot reservoir (reason #1 became obvious the first time I tried to change that 25 gallon res by myself).

Speaking of clones, I've tried twice to add this update and I keep doing something ADD and stupid and losing the post.

Here's my clone update:

My Alice clone, taken from her mama when mama was 6 weeks into flowering, is starting to show some roots through her net pot.



And my Wednesday afternoon of cloning is still going well. It's day 3 and only one is showing a little distress with some wilty leaves.




And finally, here's another look at my FIM effort...still not entirely sure what's going to come of that effort...oh well, it had to be done. I was going to go bonkers staring at that top till I pinched it anyway. It'll be fun to see what comes of it.


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## karmas a bitch (Nov 4, 2011)

Update on the kiddies. Sorry on the lack of pics I haven't taken any yet. I have 4 super sour skunks going strong I culled the rest of the 10. They reek already already. One is esp vigorous and stinky hopin it's a female but we all know that more often than not the super vigorous ones turn male. The plants seem very uniform in veg. 

Only 2 of my 11 bodhi seeds popped at all. I'm still trying to contact him about that. But these two look great they are glowing. Hoping for two girls but if I get a male it should be nice. Fingers crossed. 

And I have 6 of 10 Tga ace of spades going. Most likely gonna cull one more. No room for weak slow shit in my house. These might as well be clones. He says the line is uniform so far I agree. Mind u everything is young. 

I use coco and amend it myself. I think my plants like it. They are about a week and a few days old. The SSK's and A11's are on their 5 node and stacked so tight it's ridiculous. I am veggin under a four foot 8 bulb t5 with veg bulbs. I don't know anything about cfls but I love these t5's. 

Also have some sweet clone onlies thanks to a good friend. My OG Graze is pissed off in the very good kinda way. It's going crazy.


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## itslogics (Nov 5, 2011)

I love the t5's for veg also, mine do great even for a 2x2 8 bulb setup


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## Bluejeans (Nov 5, 2011)

My Vanilla Kush is sprouting 7-frond leaves! I've never actually seen them, although I've heard that pot leaves are 5, 7, or 9...all I've ever seen is 5's.


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 5, 2011)

They will keep gettin more I had a widow plant with nine and I may have had one with more but Incan remember stupid stoner brain lol


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 5, 2011)

Oops lol that wasn't supposed to go there ha ha ha


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## karmas a bitch (Nov 5, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> My Vanilla Kush is sprouting 7-frond leaves! I've never actually seen them, although I've heard that pot leaves are 5, 7, or 9...all I've ever seen is 5's.
> 
> View attachment 1872464


My plants last round, LA Confidential and Vortex, both had 14. I had never seen that many I wish I would have taken pics. I had seen 13 but never that weird 14th.


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## konagirl420 (Nov 5, 2011)

How was the vortex?????


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## karmas a bitch (Nov 5, 2011)

Long story. I'll pm u


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## cmt1984 (Nov 5, 2011)

lookin very nice everyone 

here's a little update from my flower room..

*plushberry*



























*grape ape*












*gorilla grape*

















*tga green queen x querkle tester*







*grape stomper bx*


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 6, 2011)

Excellente cmt, your works always a welcome sight for sore eyes mate. Something fresh in the mix from TGA too, your rockin the show as usual fella.


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## Crash666 (Nov 6, 2011)

Awesome as always CMT, thanks for the motivation!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 6, 2011)

Okay, this just rocks... I feel the love


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## konagirl420 (Nov 6, 2011)

I want the plushberry


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## Bluejeans (Nov 6, 2011)

Okay, I've been busy in the grow room, doing what I need to, logging what I must, and snapping pictures like crazy. I am too lazy to really organize this update, and WAYYYY to high to care, so here's my photo dump.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 6, 2011)

View attachment 1875414



heres some dank for yah skunk


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## cmt1984 (Nov 7, 2011)

very nice. what is it? looks like pandoras box to me.


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## greengenez (Nov 7, 2011)

Double barrel og's have entered the building.

and some pineapple express around 4wks


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

I think it's orange custard? Or was that a misspell of kush in that other thread hell? I know it's somthin orange though


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 7, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> very nice. what is it? looks like pandoras box to me.


its a clones only orange kush


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## skunkd0c (Nov 7, 2011)

hey folks 
Final pics of this large haze girl, @ 95 days flower. i will harvest her this weekend at 100 days

Angel Heart (Mango Haze)x Nordle (afghan skunk)

































































































peace


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## colocowboy (Nov 7, 2011)

FuK
That thing is a sick mudda!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 7, 2011)

Crazy hazy goodness there mate, she's a real beuity and I am looking forward to reading a smoke report too if you do one, if not be sure to come back with some dried bud shots for us wont you. Damn thats some great work, I can almost taste the rainbow


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 7, 2011)

Lol hell raiser is og like that he's got the dank orange kush cut probably pre 98ol that's the last time I seen anything close to orange kush besides subs ao pheno that I got and it's not that close IMO too much haze smell in it


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## Bluejeans (Nov 7, 2011)

Simply beautiful. +rep to ya for making my evening...


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## skunkd0c (Nov 7, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Crazy hazy goodness there mate, she's a real beuity and I am looking forward to reading a smoke report too if you do one, if not be sure to come back with some dried bud shots for us wont you. Damn thats some great work, I can almost taste the rainbow


Thanks for the kind words m8 , ill post some nug shots n a smoke report in a 2-3 weeks 
peace bro


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## witelightnin (Nov 7, 2011)

Wow, those are some amazing pics and plants. Some of the best pics I've ever seen.


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 7, 2011)

All DANK in here... Just how I like it!
Ill be waitn on that haze smoke report +rep with those fat buds


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## LILBSDAD (Nov 7, 2011)

I find this thread 22 pages in? WTF? Grandma just passed away so I have been really busy but I got through 7 pages. I will throw up some pics tomorrow now that I know this is here. I just popped my Hazeman Madness and Rocky Mountain High to go with Plushberry, Double Barrel OG, and Fire OG in my next runs. Did you have any problem with your Double Barrels taking off Monkey?


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## konagirl420 (Nov 8, 2011)

Damn those buds turn me on hahahaha!!!!!!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 8, 2011)

LILBSDAD said:


> I find this thread 22 pages in? WTF? Grandma just passed away so I have been really busy but I got through 7 pages. I will throw up some pics tomorrow now that I know this is here. I just popped my Hazeman Madness and Rocky Mountain High to go with Plushberry, Double Barrel OG, and Fire OG in my next runs. Did you have any problem with your Double Barrels taking off Monkey?


No problem at all mate, I only started 4 seeds got 100% germ and 2 girls. I'm more than impressed by DH so far, I got 100% germ on x5 Strawberry Alien's too mate. All flew outta their shells and the veg growth comes on quickly too. 
And sorry to hear about your loss fella, hope you are doin well my friend .
Stay Up!!


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## LILBSDAD (Nov 8, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> No problem at all mate, I only started 4 seeds got 100% germ and 2 girls. I'm more than impressed by DH so far, I got 100% germ on x5 Strawberry Alien's too mate. All flew outta their shells and the veg growth comes on quickly too.
> And sorry to hear about your loss fella, hope you are doin well my friend .
> Stay Up!!


Thanks man. I had 100% germ rate but it seem like they were stunted. I hit them with some light nutrients the other day and they are looking better already.


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## greengenez (Nov 8, 2011)

LILBSDAD said:


> I find this thread 22 pages in? WTF? Grandma just passed away so I have been really busy but I got through 7 pages. I will throw up some pics tomorrow now that I know this is here. I just popped my Hazeman Madness and Rocky Mountain High to go with Plushberry, Double Barrel OG, and Fire OG in my next runs. Did you have any problem with your Double Barrels taking off Monkey?


Mine 'bout jumped out of their shells. 4 outa 4. And 1 multi cross (sour d x og kush x malawi gold x cheesy smurf(cannazon compiments)) up One day later.
So much goodness thought I'd pop at least one of those.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 8, 2011)

greengenez said:


> Mine 'bout jumped out of their shells. 4 outa 4. And 1 multi cross (sour d x og kush x malawi gold x cheesy smurf(cannazon compiments)) up One day later.
> So much goodness thought I'd pop at least one of those.


I've got some of those sitting in my stash atm too, the CZ freebies are class.


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## konagirl420 (Nov 8, 2011)

Can't wait to see them all!!!!!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 8, 2011)

I chopped my first harvest today!!! I finally got my scope, saw Alice was ready, had a few hours with nothing going on and I did it! I am so proud! She was little, and I abused her, but she pulled through for me.

View attachment 1878161View attachment 1878162View attachment 1878163


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 8, 2011)

konagirl420 said:


> Can't wait to see them all!!!!!


Wait till you see my "FireStarters" now Kona, these bitches are so frosted up already!!, I'll snap some fresh pics tomorrow .
Sista are you on CZ??


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## Crash666 (Nov 8, 2011)

So here's my setup: I use a closet with a multi level T5s for seeds/clones/early veg. Then there's a 3'X3' Secret Jardin Darkroom with a 600W hps/mh that I use for both veg and flower. The big tent is a 4'X4' Darkroom with a 600W hps and it's flower only in there usually. The bigger plants in the flower tent are all ladies and are 1-2 weeks into flower depending on when they showed sex. They are: Chocolope, Querkle, Vortex, Alpha Dawg and Sour OG. In the small tent vegging at 3 weeks from seed are: Apollo 11 Genius (X2), Diesel, Chem4 OG, Tahoe OG, Cheese Quake, Burmese Kush and an ak-47 x northern lights.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 8, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Wait till you see my "FireStarters" now Kona, these bitches are so frosted up already!!, I'll snap some fresh pics tomorrow .
> Sista are you on CZ??


Cant wait to see i got some of those in the mail woot


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## konagirl420 (Nov 8, 2011)

Yay skunk love it very nice, I know you keep em frosty and blue jeans sometimes a lil abuse is ok hahaha!!!!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 8, 2011)

konagirl420 said:


> Yay skunk love it very nice, I know you keep em frosty and blue jeans sometimes a lil abuse is ok hahaha!!!!


Yeah, I decided Alice likes it rough... LOL

My favorite Alice pic


Of course, I love these too:


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## konagirl420 (Nov 8, 2011)

Being thrown around can be fun hahaha!!!!


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 8, 2011)

Lol ha ha ha kona feelin frisky today eh? Ha ha ha


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 8, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Lol ha ha ha kona feelin frisky today eh? Ha ha ha


Looks that way lol


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## gudkarma (Nov 8, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> I chopped my first harvest today!!! I finally got my scope, saw Alice was ready, had a few hours with nothing going on and I did it! I am so proud! She was little, and I abused her, but she pulled through for me.
> 
> View attachment 1878161View attachment 1878162View attachment 1878163


ahhhhhhhhhh... the first one.

that's ^ so cool. the bud shot was great.

did you scope the plant from top to bottom/ all over. 

she looks a tad early. was there alot of milky trichs?


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## colocowboy (Nov 8, 2011)

Why am I not surprised to hear you say that kona? lol 
Naughty girl!


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## konagirl420 (Nov 8, 2011)

Hahahaha Kona is frisky everyday hehehehehe!!!!!


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 8, 2011)




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## konagirl420 (Nov 8, 2011)

Very nice smokey!!!!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 8, 2011)

gudkarma said:


> ahhhhhhhhhh... the first one.
> 
> that's ^ so cool. the bud shot was great.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I scoped her in lots of spots ranging from top to bottom. Granted the bottom was a little early, but the tops were more than 50% amber and the rest was mostly milky. The scope is absolutely one of the coolest tools! I nearly went blind playing with that thing. I checked Alice out for a solid hour. Granted, I probably could have done a partial harvest and let the bottoms fluff out a little, but heck, it's done now. Besides, I needed her box to move some other stuff around... LOL

And it was just one of those kind of days. She was ready, I was ready, I had the time without anybody else around to disturb me, and she and I had a last fling while I watched Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets for the dozenth time, smoked a bowl and trimmed my first harvest.

My hats off to everyone who's done that. I kept thinking to myself, eh, so you cut a few leaves, what's the big deal...snip, snip and you're done. I have a deep respect now for the trimming process. That is a long, slow, tedious process with no shortcuts if you want it done well. I spent over 2 hours on tiny little Alice for probably an ounce of weed, if that. But I loved every second of it and can't wait to do it again. Since I intend to have much larger plants, and more of them, I think I will have to chop and trim a branch at a time. My hands just don't have the strength and stamina they used to.


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## gudkarma (Nov 8, 2011)

im not bragin... but try hand trimming for two days.
not fun.

i've seen vid of cali big ops where people (plural) are trimming for days & days by hand. like pro hand scissor master type people tight trimming bud so fast its amazing. for days.

pro trim hand spun version is right around the corner for me.

two zips like 25 seconds. nice.

i like to hand trim "loose" ...this way on the screen there's a buffer between herb & metal.

everything i leave will break off during the cure process of moving, jar/unjar (i use ziplock bags), etc.


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 8, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Yeah, I scoped her in lots of spots ranging from top to bottom. Granted the bottom was a little early, but the tops were more than 50% amber and the rest was mostly milky. The scope is absolutely one of the coolest tools! I nearly went blind playing with that thing. I checked Alice out for a solid hour. Granted, I probably could have done a partial harvest and let the bottoms fluff out a little, but heck, it's done now. Besides, I needed her box to move some other stuff around... LOL
> 
> And it was just one of those kind of days. She was ready, I was ready, I had the time without anybody else around to disturb me, and she and I had a last fling while I watched Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets for the dozenth time, smoked a bowl and trimmed my first harvest.
> 
> My hats off to everyone who's done that. I kept thinking to myself, eh, so you cut a few leaves, what's the big deal...snip, snip and you're done. I have a deep respect now for the trimming process. That is a long, slow, tedious process with no shortcuts if you want it done well. I spent over 2 hours on tiny little Alice for probably an ounce of weed, if that. But I loved every second of it and can't wait to do it again. Since I intend to have much larger plants, and more of them, I think I will have to chop and trim a branch at a time. My hands just don't have the strength and stamina they used to.


Yup happens every time lol... Having to trim your OWN will humble any grower...


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## gudkarma (Nov 8, 2011)

yes agreed.


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## cmt1984 (Nov 9, 2011)

Trimming blows....I'm a little OCD so I have to try and get every little leaf and after about 15 minutes of workin the scissors, my hand cramps up something fierce. I usually just throw the dried, untrimmed bud into jars and trim a little bit as needed...not ideal, but gotta do what ya gotta do.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 9, 2011)

Trimming Bud is a chore and the worst part imo, I used to love it too lol. Sit for 24 hour straight chopping up x16 plants 4-6 oz on each (dry) and it soon looses it's lusture believe me . Although the whole lot hanging sure does look impressive .

@Smokey, nice work fella . Keep that good stuff comin . 

@Kona' its all that Bud your tokin makin you frisky sista, sex & weed go hand in hand , my girl gets real handsy after a few bong hits of a sweet satty. Shes not a smoker but has a bowl every now & then  for an early night lol.


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## mellokitty (Nov 9, 2011)

omg, i LOVE trimming!! (yes yes i'm just that sort of freak)... 
i'm lucky enough to have an amazing all-"girl" crew (i put "girl" in quotes because i'm the youngest by a long shot -- and i'm in my 30s ) -- in bc, you can make a decent living just trimming for an hourly wage...

(some of these bitches be crazy -- 2 of them have adult children they raised trimming weed full time)


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 9, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> omg, i LOVE trimming!! (yes yes i'm just that sort of freak)...
> i'm lucky enough to have an amazing all-"girl" crew (i put "girl" in quotes because i'm the youngest by a long shot -- and i'm in my 30s ) -- in bc, you can make a decent living just trimming for an hourly wage...
> 
> (some of these bitches be crazy -- 2 of them have adult children they raised trimming weed full time)


It's cool you've got a "workforce" to help, I do all the growing/room maintenence work and the bulk of the trimming myself lol. But sometimes I'll get in my brother in law and cuz to help harvest when I have more than 3 girls comin out at once. Other than family I can't trust anybody else to come and help me really, friends can turn on you that I know all too well .


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## mellokitty (Nov 9, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> It's cool you've got a "workforce" to help, I do all the growing/room maintenence work and the bulk of the trimming myself lol. But sometimes I'll get in my brother in law and cuz to help harvest when I have more than 3 girls comin out at once. Other than family I can't trust anybody else to come and help me really, friends can turn on you that I know all too well .


indeed. i find it always helps to have some "dirt" on whoever helps you out... in bc this is relatively easy because *everybody* grows so there's a lot of "i'll show you mine if you show me yours" going on. 

as far as my "crew", back in the early 2000s when we were full-time, high demand, "can you get here _yesterday_" trimmers, there were 7 of us. now, with downsizing, and girls moving away, retiring, etc. we're down to 3, and we mostly only get together to help each other out. BUT, you know you've got good chemistry when you can toss a lit joint around to each other instead of getting up to pass it.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 9, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> Trimming blows....I'm a little OCD so I have to try and get every little leaf and after about 15 minutes of workin the scissors, my hand cramps up something fierce. I usually just throw the dried, untrimmed bud into jars and trim a little bit as needed...not ideal, but gotta do what ya gotta do.


Aww trimming was fun! For about 10 mintues... LOL

I started out in that same OCD fashion, determined to trim every leave down inside at the stem and that first top nug I trimmed is a thing of beauty. The rest don't have fan leaves and are missing a fair amount of sugar leaves, but there's a fair amount of the smaller, tighter leaf material still in there on a lot of it...but it was all COVERED in trichs so it should add to the overall smoke experience. That's my justification anyway...

I have one little container of bud material that accidently got snipped as I got tireder and tireder (that word doesn't look right...) that I have set aside as my first smoke as soon as its dry enough to light. Can't wait!


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## greengenez (Nov 9, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Aww trimming was fun! For about 10 mintues... LOL
> 
> I started out in that same OCD fashion, determined to trim every leave down inside at the stem and that first top nug I trimmed is a thing of beauty. The rest don't have fan leaves and are missing a fair amount of sugar leaves, but there's a fair amount of the smaller, tighter leaf material still in there on a lot of it...but it was all COVERED in trichs so it should add to the overall smoke experience. That's my justification anyway...
> 
> I have one little container of bud material that accidently got snipped as I got tireder and tireder (that word doesn't look right...) that I have set aside as my first smoke as soon as its dry enough to light. Can't wait!


I'm not sure but I think it's more tired. Doesn't look right to me either.Although it could be the bongers. Lol


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## Bluejeans (Nov 9, 2011)

greengenez said:


> I'm not sure but I think it's more tired. Doesn't look right to me either.Although it could be the bongers. Lol


Actually, I think you are right... I should have said more and more tired, rather than tireder and tireder (that word is even difficult to type! it must be wrong).


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## greengenez (Nov 9, 2011)

And trimming gets old real quick. It is a necessary process though. Not anal but close.


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## greengenez (Nov 9, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Actually, I think you are right... I should have said more and more tired, rather than tireder and tireder (that word is even difficult to type! it must be wrong).


Lmao, That's happens to me all the time. (typing and slowly freeze mid-spelling)


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## Crash666 (Nov 9, 2011)

I really dislike trimming, but it has to be done and done right! It was fun for about the first hour on my first grow years ago, but I quickly learned just how bad it sucks! Gotta hate the occasional bud that gets snipped accidently, the girl and I call them casualties. Seems like it's always after hours of trimming when I start hauling ass and getting clumsy that I start getting casualties. The casualties go in the trim pile for hash making later on at our place.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 9, 2011)

Crash666 said:


> I really dislike trimming, but it has to be done and done right! It was fun for about the first hour on my first grow years ago, but I quickly learned just how bad it sucks! Gotta hate the occasional bud that gets snipped accidently, the girl and I call them casualties. Seems like it's always after hours of trimming when I start hauling ass and getting clumsy that I start getting casualties. The casualties go in the trim pile for hash making later on at our place.


Once I got a rhythym going, it wasn't too bad. I did leave more leaves on there than I might have if I were 25 years younger and could even see the damn things...but the sugary leaves I left on there will probably smoke rather nicely as everything was coated in a thick layer of trichs. And since this one is all to head, bag appeal be damned!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 9, 2011)

*"FireStarter" ~ @ Day #70 total.*

Flowering coming on strong with *"P#1"* _(Day#20)_ getting early frost production setting in already, even coating some of the bigger leaflets too!!. *"P#2"* _(Day#01)_ is just starting into flower now and I'm starting count on this one from today. I have also noticed a few of the bigger fan leafs starting to curl!? I've put the light a little higher now as I think the heat from the HPS bulb may be the cause of that so I'm not too worried all in all tbh, but if anybody knows for sure please chime in, I'd really like to know _(Cheers!!)_. And I've also staked both plants now too to open out the overall structure a little more.
_*Nutes/levels for flower:*
*Week#2 *~ A+B, "N","Cal", C'zym ~ *E.C-1.6, ph-5.8/6.1*
*Week#3* ~ A+B, "N","Cal", C'Boost, C'zym ~ *E.C-1.7, ph-5.8/6.1*_


































































_^^ "P#1" @ Flower Day #20_


























_^^ "P#2" ~ @ Flower Day #01_

I'll have more soon as ready, Thanx for looking.
_Stay Up!!_


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## colocowboy (Nov 9, 2011)

I have had og crosses do that, it grows out though not like the effect of something. I had one where it did that on every other leaf and half the leaf was yellow or marbled until the hook grew out then it turned normal and green.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 9, 2011)

Hey skunk looks great thanks for posting that, got some ? Does it seem to be a heavy feeder, and how tall were they when
You flipped them?


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## Bluejeans (Nov 9, 2011)

My Vanilla Kush isn't doing so good. I think I damaged some roots when I was moving her into her new bucket and now she's just not going well at all. Any chance I can save her?

She is 23 days from seed and I use GH nutes. I had just bumped her up to full veg and she didn't like it, so I flushed her reservoir and put her at half strength. I don't have a ppm meter yet (I know...).

The picture doesn't show it well, but the roots are sort of brownish...


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## Bluejeans (Nov 9, 2011)

By comparison, the Red Cherry Berry, which was germinated at the exact same time, looks like this (she is exactly the same age as the other one):


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## cmt1984 (Nov 9, 2011)

i dont do hydro so i dont wanna comment and point ya in the wrong direction...but here is an amazing thread on plant problems...
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688


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## Bluejeans (Nov 9, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> My Vanilla Kush isn't doing so good. I think I damaged some roots when I was moving her into her new bucket and now she's just not going well at all. Any chance I can save her?


I really do think that I damaged her roots and started to wonder if there was any old root material causing problems. Not wanting to cause any further damage, I didn't move her hydroton around, but I did hold her over the shower and flushed her really good with pH'd plain water. There was a piece of root floating in the reservoir. After rinsing her really really good, I cleaned her bucket extra good adn put her in plain pH'd water with her air stone. I added a little SuperThrive to the water, but nothing else. I'll see how she does. At this point, I don't think anything I did hurt her and hopefully it will help.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 10, 2011)

colocowboy said:


> I have had og crosses do that, it grows out though not like the effect of something. I had one where it did that on every other leaf and half the leaf was yellow or marbled until the hook grew out then it turned normal and green.


Thanx mate, Shadders tells me "Casey" reacts like that sometimes from over doin the nutes. It may have been caused by a salts build up in my medium so I'm gonna flush this one more often now, as I'm keeping them pretty low on the E.C. already. But I think I've found her tolerance limit tbh . She'll bounce back and it's only happening on a few of the larger fan leaf blades, those 2 pictured are the worst affected.



hellraizer30 said:


> Hey skunk looks great thanks for posting that, got some ? Does it seem to be a heavy feeder, and how tall were they when
> You flipped them?


She's pretty light on the nutes HR and they were about a foot tall when transplanted. 
I'm logging my FS grow @CZ, you can see all the stages so far in the "Sure Fire" grow logs section with nutes I've used and feed levels etc, my memory is hazy as hell this morn and I'm smashed again on a wake n bake atm too mate . 



Bluejeans said:


> I really do think that I damaged her roots and started to wonder if there was any old root material causing problems. Not wanting to cause any further damage, I didn't move her hydroton around, but I did hold her over the shower and flushed her really good with pH'd plain water. There was a piece of root floating in the reservoir. After rinsing her really really good, I cleaned her bucket extra good adn put her in plain pH'd water with her air stone. I added a little SuperThrive to the water, but nothing else. I'll see how she does. At this point, I don't think anything I did hurt her and hopefully it will help.


To me it looks like they've suffered burn from the nutes being at full strength, start at half dose and slowly work up weekly. You need an E.C & ph meter ASAP too tbh mate, hydro needs to be constantly checked daily and closely watched for E.C/ph drifts too. 
You've done right as you've done with the flush and adding the superthrive should help bring round any stress induced too. Once the root ball gets goin again add in a half dose of nutes and build them up slowly from there. 
Are you following any kind of feed chart?? They should only ever be used as a guideline to your feeding plan. You have to adjust the doses you give accordingly to how your plants react with each feeding. They will tell you what they need . 
I always start at E.C - 1.1 and build upto 1.4 weekly through veg stage and 1.5 - 1.9 through flower but it varies from strain to strain and each have different needs/wants and nute tolerance too.
It's what keeps us on our toes and why some growers preffer to stick to just mastering one strain at a time. 
But for me it's the fun of trying something fresh each round and trying to push myself further as a grower with each strain I run, I get an orgasmic rush from growing all these different strains & plants at a time more than actually smoking them sometimes .


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## colocowboy (Nov 10, 2011)

That is good info man, I was driving the shit out of that girl I mentioned. She was hardcore and I was looking for the limit on her. 
I assumed it was genetic since she was doing it from the start but in hindsight it was ocean forest amended and that can be hot.
Cool, cool, glad it's working out 
***BTW your passion for your ladies shows!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 10, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> To me it looks like they've suffered burn from the nutes being at full strength, start at half dose and slowly work up weekly. You need an E.C & ph meter ASAP too tbh mate, hydro needs to be constantly checked daily and closely watched for E.C/ph drifts too.
> You've done right as you've done with the flush and adding the superthrive should help bring round any stress induced too. Once the root ball gets goin again add in a half dose of nutes and build them up slowly from there.
> Are you following any kind of feed chart?? They should only ever be used as a guideline to your feeding plan. You have to adjust the doses you give accordingly to how your plants react with each feeding. They will tell you what they need .
> I always start at E.C - 1.1 and build upto 1.4 weekly through veg stage and 1.5 - 1.9 through flower but it varies from strain to strain and each have different needs/wants and nute tolerance too.


Thanks Munkie...you're advice is always so helpful! I'm proud to say that today is payday and I'm getting supplies. I pick up my ppm meter today, some pots and medium for the clones, some more hydroton for my budding new Kaya Gold, and another DWC bucket to have as a spare for res changes.

I looked in on VK this morning and I was amazed! I snipped off the worst of the bottom leaves last night after the flush and when I lifted her lid this morning, her water smelled fresh and vitaminy (thanks to the Superthrive -- I love that smell...) and she had no less than 3 new 6" long bright white roots. Whew! I think she'll be okay. I added 1/2 nutes this morning and I'll see how she does with that. By evening when I get back home, I'll be in possession of a new ppm meter and I can kick this grow into overdrive!



THESkunkMunkie said:


> It's what keeps us on our toes and why some growers preffer to stick to just mastering one strain at a time.
> But for me it's the fun of trying something fresh each round and trying to push myself further as a grower with each strain I run, I get an orgasmic rush from growing all these different strains & plants at a time more than actually smoking them sometimes


.

Well, I'm not looking to "master" anything at this stage. I just wanna grow and smoke as much bud as I can before I die. My original goal -- and I still think it is a good one -- is to grow 100 strains. I'd then like to save one nice nug from each grow and to celebrate reaching my goal, I'd have one huge smoke party with all my friends and family and we'd smoke 100 buds one night...

I've discovered certain preferences simply through viewing bud porn... 

I'm into short compact really bushy plants
I get turned on by long spiky leaves
I get orgasmic over colors on the leaves and buds
I love the look of long flowing hair on a bud
And I'm more enamoured of round fat buds as opposed to tall skinny ones.


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## konagirl420 (Nov 10, 2011)

Great post bluejeans hehehe love your choices of expressive words


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## Bluejeans (Nov 10, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Thanks Munkie...you're advice is always so helpful! I'm proud to say that today is payday and I'm getting supplies. I pick up my ppm meter today, some pots and medium for the clones, some more hydroton for my budding new Kaya Gold, and another DWC bucket to have as a spare for res changes.


Woohoo! Got my ppm meter, finally. My water out of the tap is 174ppm. I tested each of the girls and they are both at 700 (704 and 712). Is that good?


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## Kaptain Kron (Nov 10, 2011)

Yup for veg sure


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## Bluejeans (Nov 10, 2011)

OMG... Alice is amazing. I had a little container where I was keeping the "casualties" of trimming...a couple of little bowl packs... and we deemed them dry enough to smoke tonight. I shared my two little bowls with hubby, son (age 21) and son's girlfriend (age 23) and all four of us were zoned for about an hour and a half...and she isn't done drying yet! Damn I wish I knew what she was.

The taste is sort of like burnt plain popcorn...ever had the stuff with no salt, no butter, no nothing...just popcorn...imagine that slightly burnt and with a very light sweet overtone. Nice flavor. Wicked stone...this message has taken me like 5 minutes to type...too bad theres gonna be less than a zip when she's done drying.


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 10, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> OMG... Alice is amazing. I had a little container where I was keeping the "casualties" of trimming...a couple of little bowl packs... and we deemed them dry enough to smoke tonight. I shared my two little bowls with hubby, son (age 21) and son's girlfriend (age 23) and all four of us were zoned for about an hour and a half...and she isn't done drying yet! Damn I wish I knew what she was.
> 
> The taste is sort of like burnt plain popcorn...ever had the stuff with no salt, no butter, no nothing...just popcorn...imagine that slightly burnt and with a very light sweet overtone. Nice flavor. Wicked stone...this message has taken me like 5 minutes to type...too bad theres gonna be less than a zip when she's done drying.



Wait... is your sons name hubby? blue jeans ur a woman? news to me gud for u!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 10, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Wait... is your sons name hubby? blue jeans ur a woman? news to me gud for u!


Shes a ganja growing grandma Smokey, I didn't realise myself till I read her CZ introduction lol. Props to BlueJ for getting in on the grow scene, it's never to late to get into imo.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 11, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Wait... is your sons name hubby? blue jeans ur a woman? news to me gud for u!


Tehehehe...no, yes, and how 'about that....

Yep, I'm a woman (and not a young one at that). I'm a grandma and I JUST now found out how very much I love growing marijuana. Up till now, I always thought I had a brown thumb and that I was a bane to plants. Turns out I just had zero interest in them and that's why they all died. Pot plants, on the other hand, I have VERY much interest in.



THESkunkMunkie said:


> Shes a ganja growing grandma Smokey, I didn't realise myself till I read her CZ introduction lol. Props to BlueJ for getting in on the grow scene, it's never to late to get into imo.


Well, I posted an intro here (I think)...but I'm not sure how many people even saw it. My profile _does_ say I'm a grandma (which usually includes being female) LOL


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## greengenez (Nov 11, 2011)

Damn Bluejeans. I bet that's you in konagirls avatar?


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## konagirl420 (Nov 11, 2011)

Hell yeah bluejeans!!!!!!!


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## konagirl420 (Nov 11, 2011)

Hahahaha no wonder you used the word orgasmic earlier hahahahahahaha awesome love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 11, 2011)

greengenez said:


> Damn Bluejeans. I bet that's you in konagirls avatar?


Ha! Not even in my better years... LOL


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 11, 2011)

Gud times in this thread... Cant wait to put these 3 new strain i have into flower but i must be patient lol.
I think ill chop a grape god to calm my anxiety!!!! Who wants to come blaze wit me? my treat!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 11, 2011)

Well, I finally got the NLxBB clones potted. They've been rooting in rockwool for 10 days and today, it was time to cull and plant. 

I chose the 6 best and put them in the pots in the grow room.


They had good sturdy roots and I've put them in FFOF with a 20% perlite mix and started them on 1/4 GH nutes.

Here's my poor troubled VK. I hope she makes it. She looks good on top, but her roots are really troubling me.


Red Cherry Berry continues to shoot for the moon. I love her!


And, introducing Kaya Gold. She just popped up yesterday. 


Once the clones have adjusted to their new pots and soil, then we're going 12/12. I'm aiming for December 1 to go into flower, but I'll probably change my mind a dozen times...and one final time before then.

And my first grow is officially off the line! And away we go.


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## konagirl420 (Nov 11, 2011)

Very Very pretty bluejeans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 11, 2011)

konagirl420 said:


> Very Very pretty bluejeans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks! I decided to start a Journal on my first grow. I've got every body situated now in the grow room and it's on. Check my sig!


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 11, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Thanks! I decided to start a Journal on my first grow. I've got every body situated now in the grow room and it's on. Check my sig!


lookin gud.. is this your first run of nl x bb?
if not how does it smoke?


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## Bluejeans (Nov 11, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> lookin gud.. is this your first run of nl x bb?
> if not how does it smoke?


Yeah, this is my first run of this. I'm really looking forward to letting you know how it smokes! LOL I started with 13 clones of this and 12 of them developed strong, good looking roots. I was pretty proud of myself since this was the first time trying to root clones. Of course, I had great clones to start with!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 11, 2011)

Back on 10/24, at GudKarma's suggestion, I tried taking a clone from my Alice. Alice was past six weeks flowering at the time so it was an unusual time to take a clone, but with his instructions, I tried it.

This is what the clone looked like the day I took it.







Now, weeks later, with the exception of the fact that her fan leaves shriveled up and died, she looks pretty much the same. GudKarma insisted that new growth would appear on the bud. I trusted him.

But deep inside, I suspected I was not magical enough to make it happen. But I continued to care for the little thing, even though there was not one indicator that it was growing. I finally took it out of its rockwool, ready to give up and was amazed to discover quite a few roots growing in there. So I put her in some good soil in a cup and continued to nurse her for another week.

And tonight, it all paid off. I was making the rounds, checking everybody and saying goodnight before lights out when I decided to take another hard look at little Alice 2. I've been working the room all night, changing 3 reservoirs, repotting 12 clones, setting things in final position in the grow room for some serious vegging, and I just stopped and looked at little Alice 2.

And there, in about 3 different places, was some tiny *NEW GROWTH*! Looky!


GudKarma, thanks a bazillion. I trusted your theory, but had little faith in my ability. But you are a great coach! Thanks to you, Alice lives on...


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 12, 2011)

Trust in gk, my boy truely knows his shit sista. Great news on Alice2, and never doubt in yourself BlueJ mate. The power of + thinking works .

Pretty soon you'll be growing like a pro


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## Bluejeans (Nov 12, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Trust in gk, my boy truely knows his shit sista. Great news on Alice2, and never doubt in yourself BlueJ mate. The power of + thinking works .
> 
> Pretty soon you'll be growing like a pro


Absolutely! He's a great mentor. Like I said, I trusted him explicitly (evidenced by the fact that I followed instructions and did something that I just didn't see would work). I love growing and since I'm an old lady, one of the things I have learned in my life is to listen carefully to those who are doing what I'd like to do, and learn. GK has beautiful stuff and lots of it so when he offered advice, I took notes! LOL


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## at0ms0ft (Nov 12, 2011)

Damn I probably just should have tried that to save my Alaskan Thunder Fuck. I trimmed all nugs and am trying to re-veg it. Do you think that same technique would work on my ATF. I have already harvested it left all leafs and branches on cause they are still very much alive. Just curious if it would be a better option just to try and take a clone from it or keep trying to re-veg it?

This is the ATF top cola whole plant turned this dark purple it is really nice!!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 12, 2011)

at0ms0ft said:


> Damn I probably just should have tried that to save my Alaskan Thunder Fuck. I trimmed all nugs and am trying to re-veg it. Do you think that same technique would work on my ATF. I have already harvested it left all leafs and branches on cause they are still very much alive. Just curious if it would be a better option just to try and take a clone from it or keep trying to re-veg it?
> 
> This is the ATF top cola whole plant turned this dark purple it is really nice!!



That superb! What ever method you use, I don't blame you for wanting to "do it again".... How's the smoke?


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## karmas a bitch (Nov 12, 2011)

I'd reveg if I were u.


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## at0ms0ft (Nov 12, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> That superb! What ever method you use, I don't blame you for wanting to "do it again".... How's the smoke?


It is drying out right now. So I will find out in a couple of weeks. I have smoked this before about a year ago the collective that gave the seed had it for a while and I think I bought most of it lol. It was a great smoke. Very excited to taste this one it has such a sweet smell. 

I have a grow journal up check it out. It went from outdoor (veg) to indoor (flower). That amount of purple was in the genetics cause it has been a little cold lately but none of my other plants turned any kind purple.


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## at0ms0ft (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeah that is what it is doing right now. I am going to check on it in a couple of hours when I go do my round for the morning. Hope it is doing nice. Last night before bed it was looking good it was nice and perky reaching for the lights still. ATF handles stress extremely well I have a good feeling it will take.


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## colocowboy (Nov 12, 2011)

It's all about the root ball bro, reveg is way easier on her too. Good luck, that looks like a winner to me!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 13, 2011)

*@ Day #74 Total*







Things are really starting to take of now with both of these gorgeous girls frosting up very quickly and also flowering very strong. Still feeding very heavy they're takin up all they can get and I'm trying to keep up lol. They're both kickin out a powerful earthy "OG" like aroma now too. 

_*Nutes/levels for flower:
Week#3* ~ A+B, C.Boost, "Cal"+"Mag", C'zym ~ *E.C-1.6, ph-5.8/6.1
Week#4* ~ A+B, C.Boost, PK13/14, "Cal", C'zym ~ *E.C-1.7, ph-5.8/6.1*_





























































_^^ "P#1" ~ Flower Day #28_




































_^^ "P#4" ~ Flower Day #21_

Thanx for looking, I'll have more as soon as ready.
_Stay Up!!_


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## colocowboy (Nov 13, 2011)

Damn Boss!
As always, AMAZING!!


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 13, 2011)

Hella nice skunk..........


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## cmt1984 (Nov 13, 2011)

good golly miss molly...


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## greengenez (Nov 13, 2011)

Hope mine look something like that. Nice pictures. (hope my plants look something like that too.)


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## Bluejeans (Nov 13, 2011)

Ok, as I've mentioned, I've been having problems almost from the get go with my Vanilla Kush. I'm almost to the point where I think she was just not meant to be. 

It started from the beginning:

I dropped the seed on the floor and had to try and quickly find it before the cat (who saw it fall...) got it.
The seed germinated upside down in the rockwool cube and had to flip before growing (cuz I was afraid to touch it)
I tore some of her roots when changing my system from a multiport Bubbleponics to 5 gal DWC

Despite it all, she was really trying, and I tried to help her, but today when I lifted up the lid to look at her roots, they were all brown and when I lifted it, I got a huge "snot ball" (sorry )

I am after all newbie and I think it's a rule that I gotta kill something before I am fully accepted in the club, but I'm still trying not to let my Vanilla Kush be the sacrifice. 

I made one last ditch effort to save her. For all her troubles, she is only 6" tall with no large fan leaves left and no side branching...just a lot of tight growth along the central stem. So I decided to treat the entire plant like a clone. I chopped her off even with the hydroton, trimmed off all but the top couple of clusters, angle cut her, dipped her in Clonex and stuck her in a newly soaked rockwool cube. My current clone success rate is 93% (13 rooted out of 14 attempts) so I figured I've got nothing to lose that I'm probably not going to lose anyway.

What do you think? Did I do the right thing?


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## Bluejeans (Nov 13, 2011)

Really?? Almost 4 hours and _*nobody*_ has posted in here since me?


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## mcgyversmoke (Nov 13, 2011)

Gotta say skunk you are the master my man.

not tryin to thread jack but i know its about odd seed crosses.
I have 3 plants from home crossed seeds in the first days of flower after a 2 month veg.

they are 
2x ( purple erkle x gdp)
1x ( [kryptonite x green crack] x gdp)

heres a pic of each, would love to get the masters advice, especially because the one k x gc x gdp looks very yellow even tho they are getting plenty of nutes, and growing pretty good.

big bertha ( p.e x gdp)






short round ( p.e x gdp)






stretch mc gee ( k. gc x gdp)






your stuff looks amazing skunk same with everyone elses!
peace out and keep farmin!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 14, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Ok, as I've mentioned, I've been having problems almost from the get go with my Vanilla Kush. I'm almost to the point where I think she was just not meant to be.
> 
> It started from the beginning:
> 
> ...


Damn BlueJ, thats a hell of a ride that seed has taken so far. I'm not sure if you've done the right thing or not though as I haven't tried it myself tbh, so I can't say for sure mate. If it were mine I would have scrapped it and started over with another seed/clone by now really. But be sure to keep us updated on how you get on though, I'm interested to see how she goes.

@mcgyversmoke, your not thread jackin my friend. Thanx for joining the journal here with your work mate. 
And thanx again for the love everybody, Great Buds need sharing!!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 14, 2011)

Yep, she's been through hell and that's sort of why I didn't just scrap it. I have 8 other plants in the grow room and frankly, this setback has slowed down my flowering timing. I was gonna start this week, but now I need to at least give her a fighting chance since I made her ride it out this long. If she doesn't survive this last attempt, then I'll just buy another seed sometime and finish this grow out with 8. Eight plants is certainly nothing to be ashamed of for a first grow!

But when I looked at her, I just didn't have the heart to chop her just yet. Watching *this thread* though, gave me heart that the VK is a trooper. Apparently that's a requirement around me LOL


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 14, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Yep, she's been through hell and that's sort of why I didn't just scrap it. I have 8 other plants in the grow room and frankly, this setback has slowed down my flowering timing. I was gonna start this week, but now I need to at least give her a fighting chance since I made her ride it out this long. If she doesn't survive this last attempt, then I'll just buy another seed sometime and finish this grow out with 8. Eight plants is certainly nothing to be ashamed of for a first grow!
> 
> But when I looked at her, I just didn't have the heart to chop her just yet. Watching *this thread* though, gave me heart that the VK is a trooper. Apparently that's a requirement around me LOL


Damn i was hoping this thread wasnt still on this topic because it was hard to hold my tongue the first time but i just cant twice.... If that vanilla kush is from barneys barn or farm wuteva i would of scraped that shit!!! Everything ive grown from the barn has been mediocre boring buds/plants and almost opposite of the description that persuaded me to buy the shit in the first place... FUCKIN PINEAPPLE CHUNK!!!! But they do win cups so make your own choice! LOL


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 14, 2011)

Winning cups don't make it a great strain, BlueJ recently got on CZ so I'm expecting to see her growing through some real fire genetic soon, and I agree with you smokey about the quality of Barneys (piss poor lol) But sista is just starting out so you gotta give her a break really fella. She wasn't to know mate, but she'll know better now though. And get on some CZ gear BlueJ, you are wasting time with the commercial shit tbh and there are better seeds to be growing.


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## cmt1984 (Nov 14, 2011)

yeah man...wish i wouldnt have started out buyin cups winners and shit...if only i knew then what i do now....


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 14, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> yeah man...wish i wouldnt have started out buyin cups winners and shit...if only i knew then what i do now....


My first seed buy was SLH, King Kush and Church from GHSC. lol the mistakes we first make mate eh. Full room of hermies in an op that ran clone grows for years without issue. Since then I research and look into my seed purchases before commiting to buy. And I'm glad I found all you "seed freaks" too, without other growers input I'd also be stuck. Thats my main driving force for this thread tbh mate, to let folks out there know whats fire and whats dire. So far we're doin a great job imo.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 14, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Damn i was hoping this thread wasnt still on this topic because it was hard to hold my tongue the first time but i just cant twice.... If that vanilla kush is from barneys barn or farm wuteva i would of scraped that shit!!! Everything ive grown from the barn has been mediocre boring buds/plants and almost opposite of the description that persuaded me to buy the shit in the first place... FUCKIN PINEAPPLE CHUNK!!!! But they do win cups so make your own choice! LOL


Hey, it's cool! I feel like the cannabis information bin in my brain has expanded exponentially by a factor of thousands since that long ago day, with my brand new med card in my purse, I first perused The Attitude and bought the VK seed. And if it helps you feel any sort of vicarious vindication, the VK is dead. I decided it wasn't worth my time and it was holding up my entire plan. 



THESkunkMunkie said:


> Winning cups don't make it a great strain, BlueJ recently got on CZ so I'm expecting to see her growing through some real fire genetic soon, and I agree with you smokey about the quality of Barneys (piss poor lol) But sista is just starting out so you gotta give her a break really fella. She wasn't to know mate, but she'll know better now though. And get on some CZ gear BlueJ, you are wasting time with the commercial shit tbh and there are better seeds to be growing.


I love you Munkie! And I am off to send a payment to Mr. C tomorrow for a nice package of Bourbon Street by Leprechan Seeds. I do have a Nirvana Kaya Gold in the mix along with some Northern Lights Blue. 

And Barney Farm or not, that Red cherry Berry is fun as hell to grow. I swear it is bigger than I remembered EVERY time I go look at her, and she hasn't even started the stretch yet. She's still in veg.

Like I've said before, I may not know much, but I know where to take notes! Thanks guys!


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 14, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Winning cups don't make it a great strain, BlueJ recently got on CZ so I'm expecting to see her growing through some real fire genetic soon, and I agree with you smokey about the quality of Barneys (piss poor lol) But sista is just starting out so you gotta give her a break really fella. She wasn't to know mate, but she'll know better now though. And get on some CZ gear BlueJ, you are wasting time with the commercial shit tbh and there are better seeds to be growing.


Yea i know bluej u my peeps and i got mad respect for u so dont think that was a shot at you i jus hate the way some company's take advantage of trusting farmers. IMO u shouldt have to wait 3 months for bull due to genetics no matter how new you are.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 14, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Damn i was hoping this thread wasnt still on this topic because it was hard to hold my tongue the first time but i just cant twice.... If that vanilla kush is from barneys barn or farm wuteva i would of scraped that shit!!! Everything ive grown from the barn has been mediocre boring buds/plants and almost opposite of the description that persuaded me to buy the shit in the first place... FUCKIN PINEAPPLE CHUNK!!!! But they do win cups so make your own choice! LOL


Oh yeah, and remember... I'm a newbie. Wouldn't you prefer that my first kill be something that wasn't worth growing out anyway rather than a lovely grape stomper x something?

P.S... I have a Pineapple Chunk seed too. LOL


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## Bluejeans (Nov 14, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Yea i know bluej u my peeps and i got mad respect for u so dont think that was a shot at you i jus hate the way some company's take advantage of trusting farmers. IMO u shouldt have to wait 3 months for bull due to genetics no matter how new you are.


Like I said, we're cool! I am stoked to be able just to chat with folks here and read all the yummy genetics I never had a clue even existed! I'll grow out shit for a grow or two, learn to read pot leaf, and take off with some real fire and burn up my hood like Nancy Botwin never dreamed...now if I could just find me a yummy Conrad...


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 14, 2011)

Big love for you too sista, we all start somewhere and you are right about learning your methods on the cheaper gear first. Thats where I cut my seed poppin teeth too mate.


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 14, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Like I said, we're cool! I am stoked to be able just to chat with folks here and read all the yummy genetics I never had a clue even existed! I'll grow out shit for a grow or two, learn to read pot leaf, and take off with some real fire and burn up my hood like Nancy Botwin never dreamed...now if I could just find me a yummy Conrad...


O shit and you like black men too (smokey hi fives bluej) 
U all right with me


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## LILBSDAD (Nov 15, 2011)

View attachment 1889952View attachment 1889951View attachment 1889950Jackberry X NYCD purple pheno


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## Bluejeans (Nov 16, 2011)

LILBSDAD said:


> View attachment 1889952View attachment 1889951View attachment 1889950Jackberry X NYCD purple pheno


Towers of beauty, my man...


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 16, 2011)

@LILBSDAD, were they from Sannies list of freebies too?? They look fantastic mate


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## LILBSDAD (Nov 16, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> @LILBSDAD, were they from Sannies list of freebies too?? They look fantastic mate


Sannies freebees. I asked for the Cocoa Kush X NYCD but they were out and sent me these instead.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 17, 2011)

An Advanced Study: The Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis by Robert Connell Clarke




"The greatest service which can be rendered to any country is to add a useful plant to its culture." - Thomas Jefferson




*GENETICS*




Although it is possible to breed Cannabis with limited success without any knowledge of the laws of inheritance, the full potential of diligent breeding, and the line of action most likely to lead to success, is realized by breeders who have mastered a working knowledge of genetics.




As we know already, all information transmitted from generation to generation must be contained in the pollen of the staminate parent and the ovule of the pistillate parent. Fertilization unites these two sets of genetic information, a seed forms, and a new generation is begun. Both pollen and ovules are known as gametes, and the transmitted units determining the expression of a character are known as genes. Individual plants have two identical sets of genes (2n) in every cell except the gametes, which through reduction division have only one set of genes (in). Upon fertilization one set from each parent combines to form a seed (2n).




In Cannabis, the haploid (in) number of chromosomes is 10 and the diploid (2n) number of chromosomes is 20. Each chromosome contains hundreds of genes, influencing every phase of the growth and development of the plant.




If cross-pollination of two plants with a shared genetic trait (or self-pollination of a hermaphrodite) results in off spring that all exhibit the same trait, and if all subsequent (inbred) generations also exhibit it, then we say that the strain (i.e., the line of offspring derived from common ancestors) is true-breeding, or breeds true, for that trait. A strain may breed true for one or more traits while varying in other characteristics. For example, the traits of sweet aroma and early maturation may breed true, while off spring vary in size and shape. For a strain to breed true for some trait, both of the gametes forming the offspring must have an identical complement of the genes that influence the expression of that trait. For example, in a strain that breeds true for webbed leaves, any gamete from any parent in that population will contain the gene for webbed leaves, which we will signify with the letter w. Since each gamete carries one-half (in) of the genetic complement of the offspring, it follows that upon fertilization both "leaf shape" genes of the (2n) offspring will be w. That is, the offspring, like both parents, are ww. In turn, the offspring also breed true for webbed leaves because they have only w genes to pass on in their gametes.




On the other hand, when a cross produces offspring that do not breed true (i.e., the offspring do not all resemble their parents) we say the parents have genes that segregate or are hybrid. Just as a strain can breed true for one or more traits, it can also segregate for one or more traits; this is often seen. For example, consider a cross where some of the offspring have webbed leaves and some have normal compound-pinnate leaves. (To continue our system of notation we will refer to the gametes of plants with compound-pinnate leaves as W for that trait. Since these two genes both influence leaf shape, we assume that they are related genes, hence the lower-case w and upper-case W notation instead of w for webbed and possibly P for pinnate.) Since the gametes of a true-breeding strain must each have the same genes for the given trait, it seems logical that gametes which produce two types of offspring must have genetically different parents.




Observation of many populations in which offspring differed in appearance from their parents led Mendel to his theory of genetics. If like only sometimes produces like, then what are the rules which govern the outcome of these crosses? Can we use these rules to predict the outcome of future crosses?




Assume that we separate two true-breeding populations of Cannabis, one with webbed and one with compound-pinnate leaf shapes. We know that all the gametes produced by the webbed-leaf parents will contain genes for leaf-shape w and all gametes produced by the compound-pinnate individuals will have W genes for leaf shape. (The offspring may differ in other characteristics, of course.)




If we make a cross with one parent from each of the true-breeding strains, we will find that 100% of the off spring are of the compound-pinnate leaf phenotype. (The expression of a trait in a plant or strain is known as the phenotype.) What happened to the genes for webbed leaves contained in the webbed leaf parent? Since we know that there were just as many w genes as W genes combined in the offspring, the W gene must mask the expression of the w gene. We term the W gene the dominant gene and say that the trait of compound-pinnate leaves is dominant over the recessive trait of webbed leaves. This seems logical since the normal phenotype in Cannabis has compound-pinnate leaves. It must be remembered, however, that many useful traits that breed true are recessive. The true-breeding dominant or recessive condition, WW or ww, is termed the homozygous condition; the segregating hybrid condition wW or Ww is called heterozygous. When we cross two of the F1 (first filial generation) offspring resulting from the initial cross of the ~1 (parental generation) we observe two types of offspring. The F2 generation shows a ratio of approximately 3:1, three compound pinnate type-to-one webbed type. It should be remembered that phenotype ratios are theoretical. The real results may vary from the expected ratios, especially in small samples.




In this case, compound-pinnate leaf is dominant over webbed leaf, so whenever the genes w and W are combined, the dominant trait W will be expressed in the phenotype. In the F2 generation only 25% of the offspring are homozygous for W so only 25% are fixed for W. The w trait is only expressed in the F2 generation and only when two w genes are combined to form a double-recessive, fixing the recessive trait in 25% of the offspring. If compound-pinnate showed incomplete dominance over webbed, the genotypes in this example would remain the same, but the phenotypes in the F1 generation would all be intermediate types resembling both parents and the F2 phenotype ratio would be 1 compound-pinnate :2 intermediate :1 webbed.




The explanation for the predictable ratios of offspring is simple and brings us to Mendel's first law, the first of the basic rules of heredity:




1. Each of the genes in a related pair segregate from each other during gamete formation.




A common technique used to deduce the genotype of the parents is the back-cross. This is done by crossing one of the F1 progeny back to one of the true-breeding P1 parents. If the resulting ratio of phenotypes is 1:1 (one heterozygous to one homozygous) it proves that the parents were indeed homozygous dominant WW and homozygous-recessive ww.




The 1:1 ratio observed when back-crossing F1 to P1 and the 1:2:1 ratio observed in F1 to F1 crosses are the two basic Mendelian ratios for the inheritance of one character controlled by one pair of genes. The astute breeder uses these ratios to determine the genotype of the parental plants and the relevance of genotype to further breeding.




This simple example may be extended to include the inheritance of two or more unrelated pairs of genes at a time. For instance we might consider the simultaneous inheritance of the gene pairs T (tall)/t (short) and M (early maturation)/m (late maturation). This is termed a polyhybrid instead of monohybrid cross. Mendel's second law allows us to predict the outcome of polyhybrid crosses also:




2. Unrelated pairs of genes are inherited independently of each other.




If complete dominance is assumed for both pairs of genes, then the 16 possible F2 genotype combinations will form 4 F2 phenotypes in a 9:3:3:1 ratio, the most frequent of which is the double-dominant tall/early condition. In complete dominance for both gene pairs would result in 9 F2 phenotypes in a 1:2:1:2:4:2:1:2:1 ratio, directly reflecting the genotype ratio. A mixed dominance condition would result in 6 F2 phenotypes in a 6:3:3:2:1:1 ratio. Thus, we see that a cross involving two independently assorting pairs of genes results in a 9:3:3:1 Mendelian phenotype ratio only if dominance is complete. This ratio may differ, depending on the dominance conditions present in the original gene pairs. Also, two new phenotypes, tall/late and short/early, have been created in the F2 generation; these phenotypes differ from both parents and grand parents. This phenomenon is termed recombination and explains the frequent observation that like begets like, but not exactly like.




A polyhybrid back-cross with two unrelated gene pairs exhibits a 1:1 ratio of phenotypes as in the mono-hybrid back-cross. It should be noted that despite dominance influence, an F1 back-cross with the P1 homozygous-recessive yields the homozygous-recessive phenotype short/late 25% of the time, and by the same logic, a back cross with the homozygous-dominant parent will yield the homozygous dominant phenotype tall/early 25% of the time. Again, the back-cross proves invaluable in determining the F1 and P1 genotypes. Since all four phenotypes of the back-cross progeny contain at least one each of both recessive genes or one each of both dominant genes, the back-cross phenotype is a direct representation of the four possible gametes produced by the F1 hybrid.




So far we have discussed inheritance of traits con trolled by discrete pairs of unrelated genes. Gene inter action is the control of a trait by two or more gene pairs. In this case genotype ratios will remain the same but phenotype ratios may be altered. Consider a hypothetical example where 2 dominant gene pairs Pp and Cc control late-season anthocyanin pigmentation (purple color) in Cannabis. If P is present alone, only the leaves of the plant (under the proper environmental stimulus) will exhibit accumulated anthocyanin pigment and turn a purple color. If C is present alone, the plant will remain green through out its life cycle despite environmental conditions. If both are present, however, the calyxes of the plant will also exhibit accumulated anthocyanin and turn purple as the leaves do. Let us assume for now that this may be a desirable trait in Cannabis flowers. What breeding techniques can be used to produce this trait?




First, two homozygous true-breeding ~1 types are crossed and the phenotype ratio of the F1 offspring is observed.




The phenotypes of the F2 progeny show a slightly altered phenotype ratio of 9:3:4 instead of the expected 9:3:3:1 for independently assorting traits. If P and C must both be present for any anthocyanin pigmentation in leaves or calyxes, then an even more distorted phenotype ratio of 9:7 will appear.




Two gene pairs may interact in varying ways to pro duce varying phenotype ratios. Suddenly, the simple laws of inheritance have become more complex, but the data may still be interpreted.




*Summary of Essential Points of Breeding*




1 - The genotypes of plants are controlled by genes which are passed on unchanged from generation to generation.




2 - Genes occur in pairs, one from the gamete of the staminate parent and one from the gamete of the pistillate parent.




3 - When the members of a gene pair differ in their effect upon phenotype, the plant is termed hybrid or heterozygous.




4 - When the members of a pair of genes are equal in their effect upon phenotype, then they are termed true-breeding or homozygous.




5 - Pairs of genes controlling different phenotypic traits are (usually) inherited independently.




6 - Dominance relations and gene interaction can alter the phenotypic ratios of the F1, F2, and subsequent generations.




*Polyploidy*




Polyploidy is the condition of multiple sets of chromosomes within one cell. Cannabis has 20 chromosomes in the vegetative diploid (2n) condition. Triploid (3n) and tetraploid (4n) individuals have three or four sets of chromosomes and are termed polyploids. It is believed that the haploid condition of 10 chromosomes was likely derived by reduction from a higher (polyploid) ancestral number (Lewis, W. H. 1980). Polyploidy has not been shown to occur naturally in Cannabis; however, it may be induced artificially with colchicine treatments. Colchicine is a poisonous compound extracted from the roots of certain Colchicum species; it inhibits chromosome segregation to daughter cells and cell wall formation, resulting in larger than average daughter cells with multiple chromosome sets. The studies of H. E. Warmke et al. (1942-1944) seem to indicate that colchicine raised drug levels in Cannabis. It is unfortunate that Warmke was unaware of the actual psychoactive ingredients of Cannabis and was therefore unable to extract THC. His crude acetone extract and archaic techniques of bioassay using killifish and small freshwater crustaceans are far from conclusive. He was, however, able to produce both triploid and tetraploid strains of Cannabis with up to twice the potency of dip bid strains (in their ability to kill small aquatic organisms). The aim of his research was to "produce a strain of hemp with materially reduced marijuana content" and his results indicated that polyploidy raised the potency of Cannabis without any apparent increase in fiber quality or yield.




Warmke's work with polyploids shed light on the nature of sexual determination in Cannabis. He also illustrated that potency is genetically determined by creating a lower potency strain of hemp through selective breeding with low potency parents.




More recent research by A. I. Zhatov (1979) with fiber Cannabis showed that some economically valuable traits such as fiber quantity may be improved through polyploidy. Polyploids require more water and are usually more sensitive to changes in environment. Vegetative growth cycles are extended by up to 30-40% in polyploids. An extended vegetative period could delay the flowering of polyploid drug strains and interfere with the formation of floral clusters. It would be difficult to determine if cannabinoid levels had been raised by polyploidy if polyploid plants were not able to mature fully in the favorable part of the season when cannabinoid production is promoted by plentiful light and warm temperatures. Greenhouses and artificial lighting can be used to extend the season and test polyploid strains.




The height of tetraploid (4n) Cannabis in these experiments often exceeded the height of the original diploid plants by 25-30%. Tetraploids were intensely colored, with dark green leaves and stems and a well developed gross phenotype. Increased height and vigorous growth, as a rule, vanish in subsequent generations. Tetraploid plants often revert back to the diploid condition, making it difficult to support tetraploid populations. Frequent tests are performed to determine if ploidy is changing.




Triploid (3n) strains were formed with great difficulty by crossing artificially created tetraploids (4n) with dip bids (2n). Triploids proved to be inferior to both diploids and tetraploids in many cases.




De Pasquale et al. (1979) conducted experiments with Cannabis which was treated with 0.25% and 0.50% solutions of colchicine at the primary meristem seven days after generation. Treated plants were slightly taller and possessed slightly larger leaves than the controls, Anomalies in leaf growth occurred in 20% and 39%, respectively, of the surviving treated plants. In the first group (0.25%) cannabinoid levels were highest in the plants without anomalies, and in the second group (0.50%) cannabinoid levels were highest in plants with anomalies, Overall, treated plants showed a 166-250% increase in THC with respect to controls and a decrease of CBD (30-33%) and CBN (39-65%). CBD (cannabidiol) and CBN (cannabinol) are cannabinoids involved in the biosynthesis and degradation of THC. THC levels in the control plants were very low (less than 1%). Possibly colchicine or the resulting polyploidy interferes with cannabinoid biogenesis to favor THC. In treated plants with deformed leaf lamina, 90% of the cells are tetraploid (4n 40) and 10% diploid (2n 20). In treated plants without deformed lamina a few cells are tetraploid and the remainder are triploid or diploid.




The transformation of diploid plants to the tetraploid level inevitably results in the formation of a few plants with an unbalanced set of chromosomes (2n + 1, 2n - 1, etc.). These plants are called aneuploids. Aneuploids are inferior to polyploids in every economic respect. Aneuploid Cannabis is characterized by extremely small seeds. The weight of 1,000 seeds ranges from 7 to 9 grams (1/4 to 1/3 ounce). Under natural conditions diploid plants do not have such small seeds and average 14-19 grams (1/2-2/3 ounce) per 1,000 (Zhatov 1979).




Once again, little emphasis has been placed on the relationship between flower or resin production and polyploidy. Further research to determine the effect of polyploidy on these and other economically valuable traits of Cannabis is needed.




Colchicine is sold by laboratory supply houses, and breeders have used it to induce polyploidy in Cannabis. However, colchicine is poisonous, so special care is exercised by the breeder in any use of it. Many clandestine cultivators have started polyploid strains with colchicine. Except for changes in leaf shape and phyllotaxy, no out standing characteristics have developed in these strains and potency seems unaffected. However, none of the strains have been examined to determine if they are actually polyploid or if they were merely treated with colchicine to no effect. Seed treatment is the most effective and safest way to apply colchicine. * In this way, the entire plant growing from a colchicine-treated seed could be polyploid and if any colchicine exists at the end of the growing season the amount would be infinitesimal. Colchicine is nearly always lethal to Cannabis seeds, and in the treatment there is a very fine line between polyploidy and death. In other words, if 100 viable seeds are treated with colchicine and 40 of them germinate it is unlikely that the treatment induced polyploidy in any of the survivors. On the other hand, if 1,000 viable treated seeds give rise to 3 seedlings, the chances are better that they are polyploid since the treatment killed all of the seeds but those three. It is still necessary to determine if the offspring are actually polyploid by microscopic examination.




The work of Menzel (1964) presents us with a crude map of the chromosomes of Cannabis, Chromosomes 2-6 and 9 are distinguished by the length of each arm. Chromosome 1 is distinguished by a large knob on one end and a dark chromomere 1 micron from the knob. Chromosome 7 is extremely short and dense, and chromosome 8 is assumed to be the sex chromosome. In the future, chromosome *The word "safest" is used here as a relative term. Coichicine has received recent media attention as a dangerous poison and while these accounts are probably a bit too lurid, the real dangers of exposure to coichicine have not been fully researched. The possibility of bodily harm exists and this is multiplied when breeders inexperienced in handling toxins use colchicine. Seed treatment might be safer than spraying a grown plant but the safest method of all is to not use colchicine. mapping will enable us to picture the location of the genes influencing the phenotype of Cannabis. This will enable geneticists to determine and manipulate the important characteristics contained in the gene pool. For each trait the number of genes in control will be known, which chromosomes carry them, and where they are located along those chromosomes.




*Breeding*




All of the Cannabis grown in North America today originated in foreign lands. The diligence of our ancestors in their collection and sowing of seeds from superior plants, together with the forces of natural selection, have worked to create native strains with localized characteristics of resistance to pests, diseases, and weather conditions. In other words, they are adapted to particular niches in the ecosystem. This genetic diversity is nature's way of protecting a species. There is hardly a plant more flexible than Cannabis. As climate, diseases, and pests change, the strain evolves and selects new defenses, programmed into the genetic orders contained in each generation of seeds. Through the importation in recent times of fiber and drug Cannabis, a vast pool of genetic material has appeared in North America. Original fiber strains have escaped and become acclimatized (adapted to the environment), while domestic drug strains (from imported seeds) have, unfortunately, hybridized and acclimatized randomly, until many of the fine gene combinations of imported Cannabis have been lost.




Changes in agricultural techniques brought on by technological pressure, greed, and full-scale eradication programs have altered the selective pressures influencing Cannabis genetics. Large shipments of inferior Cannabis containing poorly selected seeds are appearing in North America and elsewhere, the result of attempts by growers and smugglers to supply an ever increasing market for marijuana. Older varieties of Cannabis, associated with long standing cultural patterns, may contain genes not found in the newer commercial varieties. As these older varieties and their corresponding cultures become extinct, this genetic information could be lost forever. The increasing popularity of Cannabis and the requirements of agricultural technology will call for uniform hybrid races that are likely to displace primitive populations worldwide.




Limitation of genetic diversity is certain to result from concerted inbreeding for uniformity. Should inbred Cannabis be attacked by some previously unknown pest or disease, this genetic uniformity could prove disastrous due to potentially resistant diverse genotypes having been dropped from the population. If this genetic complement of resistance cannot be reclaimed from primitive parental material, resistance cannot be introduced into the ravaged population. There may also be currently unrecognized favorable traits which could be irretrievably dropped from the Cannabis gene pool. Human intervention can create new phenotypes by selecting and recombining existing genetic variety, but only nature can create variety in the gene pool itself, through the slow process of random mutation.




This does not mean that importation of seed and selective hybridization are always detrimental. Indeed these principles are often the key to crop improvement, but only when applied knowledgeably and cautiously. The rapid search for improvements must not jeopardize the pool of original genetic information on which adaptation relies. At this time, the future of Cannabis lies in government and clandestine collections. These collections are often inadequate, poorly selected and badly maintained. Indeed, the United Nations Cannabis collection used as the primary seed stock for worldwide governmental research is depleted and spoiled.




*Several steps must be taken to preserve our vanishing genetic resources, and action must be immediate*




Seeds and pollen should be collected directly from reliable and knowledgeable sources. Government seizures and smuggled shipments are seldom reliable seed sources. The characteristics of both parents must be known; consequently, mixed bales of randomly pollinated marijuana are not suitable seed sources, even if the exact origin of the sample is certain. Direct contact should be made with the farmer-breeder responsible for carrying on the breeding traditions that have produced the sample. Accurate records of every possible parameter of growth must be kept with carefully stored triplicate sets of seeds.




Since Cannabis seeds do not remain viable forever, even under the best storage conditions, seed samples should he replenished every third year. Collections should be planted in conditions as similar as possible to their original niche and allowed to reproduce freely to minimize natural and artificial selection of genes and ensure the preservation of the entire gene pool. Half of the original seed collection should be retained until the viability of further generations is confirmed, and to provide parental material for comparison and back-crossing. Phenotypic data about these subsequent generations should be carefully recorded to aid in understanding the genotypes contained in the collection. Favorable traits of each strain should be characterized and catalogued.




It is possible that in the future, Cannabis cultivation for resale, or even personal use, may be legal but only for approved, patented strains. Special caution would be needed to preserve variety in the gene pool should the patenting of Cannabis strains become a reality.




Favorable traits must be carefully integrated into existing strains.




The task outlined above is not an easy one, given the current legal restrictions on the collection of Cannabis seed. In spite of this, the conscientious cultivator is making a contribution toward preserving and improving the genetics of this interesting plant.




Even if a grower has no desire to attempt crop improvement, successful strains have to be protected so they do not degenerate and can be reproduced if lost. Left to the selective pressures of an introduced environment, most drug strains will degenerate and lose potency as they acclimatize to the new conditions. Let me cite an example of a typical grower with good intentions.




A grower in northern latitudes selected an ideal spot to grow a crop and prepared the soil well. Seeds were selected from the best floral clusters of several strains avail able over the past few years, both imported and domestic. Nearly all of the staminate plants were removed as they matured and a nearly seedless crop of beautiful plants resulted. After careful consideration, the few seeds from accidental pollination of the best flowers were kept for the following season, These seeds produced even bigger and better plants than the year before and seed collection was performed as before. The third season, most of the plants were not as large or desirable as the second season, but there were many good individuals. Seed collection and cultivation the fourth season resulted in plants inferior even to the first crop, and this trend continued year after year. What went wrong? The grower collected seed from the best plants each year and grew them under the same conditions. The crop improved the first year. Why did the strain degenerate?




This example illustrates the unconscious selection for undesirable traits. The hypothetical cultivator began well by selecting the best seeds available and growing them properly. The seeds selected for the second season resulted from random hybrid pollinations by early-flowering or overlooked staminate plants and by hermaphrodite pistil late plants. Many of these random pollen-parents may be undesirable for breeding since they may pass on tendencies toward premature maturation, retarded maturation, or hermaphrodism. However, the collected hybrid seeds pro duce, on the average, larger and more desirable offspring than the first season. This condition is called hybrid vigor and results from the hybrid crossing of two diverse gene pools. The tendency is for many of the dominant characteristics from both parents to be transmitted to the F1 off spring, resulting in particularly large and vigorous plants. This increased vigor due to recombination of dominant genes often raises the cannabinoid level of the F1 offspring, but hybridization also opens up the possibility that undesirable (usually recessive) genes may form pairs and express their characteristics in the F2 offspring. Hybrid vigor may also mask inferior qualities due to abnormally rapid growth. During the second season, random pollinations again accounted for a few seeds and these were collected. This selection draws on a huge gene pool and the possible F2 combinations are tremendous. By the third season the gene pool is tending toward early-maturing plants that are acclimatized to their new conditions instead of the drug-producing conditions of their native environment. These acclimatized members of the third crop have a higher chance of maturing viable seeds than the parental types, and random pollinations will again increase the numbers of acclimatized individuals, and thereby increase the chance that undesirable characteristics associated with acclimatization will be transmitted to the next F2 generation. This effect is compounded from generation to generation and finally results in a fully acclimatized weed strain of little drug value.




With some care the breeder can avoid these hidden dangers of unconscious selection. Definite goals are vital to progress in breeding Cannabis. What qualities are desired in a strain that it does not already exhibit? What characteristics does a strain exhibit that are unfavorable and should be bred out? Answers to these questions suggest goals for breeding. In addition to a basic knowledge of Cannabis botany, propagation, and genetics, the successful breeder also becomes aware of the most minute differences and similarities in phenotype. A sensitive rapport is established between breeder and plants and at the same time strict guidelines are followed. A simplified explanation of the time-tested principles of plant breeding shows how this works in practice.




Selection is the first and most important step in the breeding of any plant. The work of the great breeder and plant wizard Luther Burbank stands as a beacon to breeders of exotic strains. His success in improving hundreds of flower, fruit, and vegetable crops was the result of his meticulous selection of parents from hundreds of thou sands of seedlings and adults from the world over.




Bear in mind that in the production of any new plant, selection plays the all-important part. First, one must get clearly in mind the kind of plant he wants, then breed and select to that end, always choosing through a series of years the plants which are approaching nearest the ideal, and rejecting all others.




Luther Burbank (in James, 1964)




Proper selection of prospective parents is only possible if the breeder is familiar with the variable characteristics of Cannabis that may be genetically controlled, has a way to accurately measure these variations, and has established goals for improving these characteristics by selective breeding. A detailed list of variable traits of Cannabis, including parameters of variation for each trait and comments pertaining to selective breeding for or against it, are found at the end of this chapter. By selecting against unfavorable traits while selecting for favorable ones, the unconscious breeding of poor strains is avoided.




The most important part of Burbank's message on selection tells breeders to choose the plants "which are approaching nearest the ideal," and REJECT ALL OTHERS! Random pollinations do not allow the control needed to reject the undesirable parents. Any staminate plant that survives detection and roguing (removal from the population), or any stray staminate branch on a pistillate her maphrodite may become a pollen parent for the next generation. Pollination must be controlled so that only the pollen- and seed-parents that have been carefully selected for favorable traits will give rise to the next generation.




Selection is greatly improved if one has a large sample to choose from! The best plant picked from a group of 10 has far less chance of being significantly different from its fellow seedlings than the best plant selected from a sample of 100,000. Burbank often made his initial selections of parents from samples of up to 500,000 seedlings. Difficulties arise for many breeders because they lack the space to keep enough examples of each strain to allow a significant selection. A Cannabis breeder's goals are restricted by the amount of space available. Formulating a well defined goal lowers the number of individuals needed to perform effective crosses. Another technique used by breeders since the time of Burbank is to make early selections. Seedling plants take up much less space than adults. Thousands of seeds can be germinated in a flat. A flat takes up the same space as a hundred 10-centimeter (4-inch) sprouts or six-teen 30-centimeter (12-inch) seedlings or one 60-centimeter (24-inch) juvenile. An adult plant can easily take up as much space as a hundred flats. Simple arithmetic shows that as many as 10,000 sprouts can be screened in the space required by each mature plant, provided enough seeds are available. Seeds of rare strains are quite valuable and exotic; however, careful selection applied to thousands of individuals, even of such common strains as those from Colombia or Mexico, may produce better offspring than plants from a rare strain where there is little or no opportunity for selection after germination. This does not mean that rare strains are not valuable, but careful selection is even more important to successful breeding. The random pollinations that produce the seeds in most imported marijuana assure a hybrid condition which results in great seed ling diversity. Distinctive plants are not hard to discover if the seedling sample is large enough.




Traits considered desirable when breeding Cannabis often involve the yield and quality of the final product, but these characteristics can only be accurately measured after the plant has been harvested and long after it is possible to select or breed it. Early seedling selection, therefore, only works for the most basic traits. These are selected first, and later selections focus on the most desirable characteristics exhibited by juvenile or adult plants. Early traits often give clues to mature phenotypic expression, and criteria for effective early seedling selection are easy to establish. As an example, particularly tall and thin seedlings might prove to be good parents for pulp or fiber production, while seed lings of short internode length and compound branching may be more suitable for flower production. However, many important traits to be selected for in Cannabis floral clusters cannot be judged until long after the parents are gone, so many crosses are made early and selection of seeds made at a later date.




Hybridization is the process of mixing differing gene pools to produce offspring of great genetic variation from which distinctive individuals can be selected. The wind performs random hybridization in nature. Under cultivation, breeders take over to produce specific, controlled hybrids. This process is also known as cross-pollination, cross-fertilization, or simply crossing. If seeds result, they will produce hybrid offspring exhibiting some characteristics from each parent.




Large amounts of hybrid seed are most easily produced by planting two strains side by side, removing the staininate plants of the seed strain, and allowing nature to take its course. Pollen- or seed-sterile strains could be developed for the production of large amounts of hybrid seed without the labor of thinning; however, genes for sterility are rare. It is important to remember that parental weak nesses are transmitted to offspring as well as strengths. Because of this, the most vigorous, healthy plants are al ways used for hybrid crosses.




Also, sports (plants or parts of plants carrying and expressing spontaneous mutations) most easily transmit mutant genes to the offspring if they are used as pollen parents. If the parents represent diverse gene pools, hybrid vigor results, because dominant genes tend to carry valuable traits and the differing dominant genes inherited from each parent mask recessive traits inherited from the other. This gives rise to particularly large, healthy individuals. To increase hybrid vigor in offspring, parents of different geo graphic origins are selected since they will probably represent more diverse gene pools.




Occasionally hybrid offspring will prove inferior to both parents, but the first generation may still contain recessive genes for a favorable characteristic seen in a parent if the parent was homozygous for that trait. First generation (F1) hybrids are therefore inbred to allow recessive genes to recombine and express the desired parental trait. Many breeders stop with the first cross and never realize the genetic potential of their strain. They fail to produce an F2 generation by crossing or self-pollinating F1 offspring. Since most domestic Cannabis strains are F1 hybrids for many characteristics, great diversity and recessive recombination can result from inbreeding domestic hybrid strains. In this way the breeding of the F1 hybrids has already been accomplished, and a year is saved by going directly to F2 hybrids. These F2 hybrids are more likely to express recessive parental traits. From the F2 hybrid generation selections can be made for parents which are used to start new true-breeding strains. Indeed, F2 hybrids might appear with more extreme characteristics than either of the P~ parents. (For example, P1 high-THC X P1 low-THC yields F1 hybrids of intermediate THC content. Selfing the F1 yields F2 hybrids, of both P1 [high and low THC] phenotypes, inter mediate F1 phenotypes, and extra-high THC as well as extra-low THC phenotypes.)




Also, as a result of gene recombination, F1 hybrids are not true-breeding and must be reproduced from the original parental strains. When breeders create hybrids they try to produce enough seeds to last for several successive years of cultivation, After initial field tests, undesirable hybrid seeds are destroyed and desirable hybrid seeds stored for later use. If hybrids are to be reproduced, a clone is saved from each parental plant to preserve original parental genes.




Back-crossing is another technique used to produce offspring with reinforced parental characteristics. In this case, a cross is made between one of the F~ or subsequent offspring and either of the parents expressing the desired trait. Once again this provides a chance for recombination and possible expression of the selected parental trait. Back-crossing is a valuable way of producing new strains, but it is often difficult because Cannabis is an annual, so special care is taken to save parental stock for back-crossing the following year. Indoor lighting or greenhouses can be used to protect breeding stock from winter weather. In tropical areas plants may live outside all year. In addition to saving particular parents, a successful breeder always saves many seeds from the original P1 group that produced the valuable characteristic so that other P1 plants also exhibiting the characteristic can be grown and selected for back-crossing at a later time.




*Several types of breeding are summarized as follows*




1 - Crossing two varieties having outstanding qualities (hybridization).




2 - Crossing individuals from the F1 generation or selfing F1 individuals to realize the possibilities of the original cross (differentiation).




3 - Back crossing to establish original parental types.




4 - Crossing two similar true-breeding (homozygous) varieties to preserve a mutual trait and restore vigor.




It should be noted that a hybrid plant is not usually hybrid for all characteristics nor does a true-breeding strain breed true for all characteristics. When discussing crosses, we are talking about the inheritance of one or a few traits only. The strain may be true-breeding for only a few traits, hybrid for the rest. Monohybrid crosses involve one trait, dihybrid crosses involve two traits, and so forth. Plants have certain limits of growth, and breeding can only pro duce a plant that is an expression of some gene already present in the total gene pool. Nothing is actually created by breeding; it is merely the recombination of existing genes into new genotypes. But the possibilities of recombination are nearly limitless.




The most common use of hybridization is to cross two outstanding varieties. Hybrids can be produced by crossing selected individuals from different high-potency strains of different origins, such as Thailand and Mexico. These two parents may share only the characteristic of high psycho activity and differ in nearly every other respect. From this great exchange of genes many phenotypes may appear in the F2 generation. From these offspring the breeder selects individuals that express the best characteristics of the parents. As an example, consider some of the offspring from the P1 (parental) cross: Mexico X Thailand. In this case, genes for high drug content are selected from both parents while other desirable characteristics can be selected from either one. Genes for large stature and early maturation are selected from the Mexican seed-parent, and genes for large calyx size and sweet floral aroma are selected from the Thai pollen parent. Many of the F1 offspring exhibit several of the desired characteristics. To further promote gene segregation, the plants most nearly approaching the ideal are crossed among themselves. The F2 generation is a great source of variation and recessive expression. In the F2 generation there are several individuals out of many that exhibit all five of the selected characteristics. Now the process of inbreeding begins, using the desirable F2 parents.




If possible, two or more separate lines are started, never allowing them to interbreed. In this case one accept able staminate plant is selected along with two pistillate plants (or vice versa). Crosses between the pollen parent and the two seed parents result in two lines of inheritance with slightly differing genetics, but each expressing the desired characteristics. Each generation will produce new, more acceptable combinations.




If two inbred strains are crossed, F1 hybrids will be less variable than if two hybrid strains are crossed. This comes from limiting the diversity of the gene pools in the two strains to be hybridized through previous inbreeding. Further independent selection and inbreeding of the best plants for several generations will establish two strains which are true-breeding for all the originally selected traits. This means that all the offspring from any parents in the strain will give rise to seedlings which all exhibit the selected traits. Successive inbreeding may by this time have resulted in steady decline in the vigor of the strain.




When lack of vigor interferes with selecting phenotypes for size and hardiness, the two separately selected strains can then be interbred to recombine nonselected genes and restore vigor. This will probably not interfere with breeding for the selected traits unless two different gene systems control the same trait in the two separate lines, and this is highly unlikely. Now the breeder has produced a hybrid strain that breeds true for large size, early maturation, large sweet-smelling calyxes, and high THC level. The goal has been reached!




Wind pollination and dioecious sexuality favor a heterozygous gene pool in Cannabis. Through Anbreeding, hybrids are adapted from a heterozygous gene pool to a homozygous gene pool, providing the genetic stability needed to create true-breeding strains. Establishing pure strains enables the breeder to make hybrid crosses with a better chance of predicting the outcome. Hybrids can be created that are not reproducible in the F2 generation. Commercial strains of seeds could be developed that would have to be purchased each year, because the F1 hybrids of two pure-bred lines do not breed true. Thus, a seed breeder can protect the investment in the results of breeding, since it would be nearly impossible to reproduce the parents from F2 seeds.




At this time it seems unlikely that a plant patent would be awarded for a pure-breeding strain of drug Cannabis. In the future, however, with the legalization of cultivation, it is a certainty that corporations with the time, space, and money to produce pure and hybrid strains of Cannabis will apply for patents. It may be legal to grow only certain patented strains produced by large seed companies. Will this be how government and industry combine to control the quality and quantity of "drug" Cannabis?




*ACCLIMATIZATION*




Much of the breeding effort of North American cultivators is concerned with acclimatizing high-THC strains of equatorial origin to the climate of their growing area while preserving potency. Late-maturing, slow, and irregularly flowering strains like those of Thailand have difficulty maturing in many parts of North America. Even in a green house, it may not be possible to mature plants to their full native potential.




To develop an early-maturing and rapidly flowering 8train, a breeder may hybridize as in the previous example. However, if it is important to preserve unique imported genetics, hybridizing may be inadvisable. Alternatively, a pure cross is made between two or more Thai plants that most closely approach the ideal in blooming early. At this point the breeder may ignore many other traits and aim at breeding an earlier-maturing variety of a pure Thai strain. This strain may still mature considerably later than is ideal for the particular location unless selective pressure is exerted. If further crosses are made with several individuals that satisfy other criteria such as high THC content, these may be used to develop another pure Thai strain of high THC content. After these true-breeding lines have been established, a dihybrid pure cross can be made in an attempt to produce an F1 generation containing early-maturing, high-THC strains of pure Thai genetics, in other words, an acclimatized drug strain.




Crosses made without a clear goal in mind lead to strains that acclimatize while losing many favorable characteristics. A successful breeder is careful not to overlook a characteristic that may prove useful. It is imperative that original imported Cannabis genetics be preserved intact to protect the species from loss of genetic variety through excessive hybridization. A currently unrecognized gene may be responsible for controlling resistance to a pest or disease, and it may only be possible to breed for this gene by back-crossing existing strains to original parental gene pools.




Once pure breeding lines have been established, plant breeders classify and statistically analyze the offspring to determine the patterns of inheritance for that trait. This is the system used by Gregor Mendel to formulate the basic laws of inheritance and aid the modern breeder in predicting the outcome of crosses,




1 - Two pure lines of Cannabis that differ in a particular trait are located.




2 - These two pure-breeding lines are crossed to pro duce an F1 generation.




3 - The F1 generation is inbred.




4 - The offspring of the F1 and F2 generations are classified with regard to the trait being studied.




5 - The results are analyzed statistically.




6 - The results are compared to known patterns of inheritance so the nature of the genes being selected for can be characterized.




*FIXING TRAITS*




Fixing traits (producing homozygous offspring) in Cannabis strains is more difficult than it is in many other flowering plants. With monoecious strains or hermaphrodites it is possible to fix traits by self-pollinating an individual exhibiting favorable traits. In this case one plant acts as both mother and father. However, most strains of Cannabis are dioecious, and unless hermaphroditic reactions can be induced, another parent exhibiting the trait is required to fix the trait. If this is not possible, the unique individual may be crossed with a plant not exhibiting the trait, inbred in the F1 generation, and selections of parents exhibiting the favorable trait made from the F2 generation, but this is very difficult.




If a trait is needed for development of a dioecious strain it might first be discovered in a monoecious strain and then fixed through selfing and selecting homozygous offspring. Dioecious individuals can then be selected from the monoecious population and these individuals crossed to breed out monoecism in subsequent generations.




Galoch (197 indicated that gibberellic acid (GA3) promoted stamen production while indoleacetic acid (IAA), ethrel, and kinetin promoted pistil production in prefloral dioecious Cannabis. Sex alteration has several useful applications. Most importantly, if only one parent expressing a desirable trait can be found, it is difficult to perform a cross unless it happens to be a hermaphrodite plant. Hormones might be used to change the sex of a cutting from the desirable plant, and this cutting used to mate with it. This is most easily accomplished by changing a pistillate cutting to a staminate (pollen) parent, using a spray of 100 ppm gibberellic acid in water each day for five consecutive days. Within two weeks staminate flowers may appear. Pollen can then be collected for selfing with the original pistillate parent. Offspring from the cross should also be mostly pistillate since the breeder is selfing for pistillate sexuality. Staminate parents reversed to pistillate floral production make inferior seed-parents since few pistillate flowers and seeds are formed.




If entire crops could be manipulated early in life to produce all pistillate or staminate plants, seed production and seedless drug Cannabis production would be greatly facilitated.




Sex reversal for breeding can also be accomplished by mutilation and by photoperiod alteration. A well-rooted, flourishing cutting from the parent plant is pruned back to 25% of its original size and stripped of all its remaining flowers. New growth will appear within a few days, and several flowers of reversed sexual type often appear. Flowers of the unwanted sex are removed until the cutting is needed for fertilization. Extremely short light cycles (6-8 hour photoperiod) can also cause sex reversal. How ever, this process takes longer and is much more difficult to perform in the field.




*GENOTYPE AND PHENOTYPE RATIOS*




It must be remembered, in attempting to fix favorable characteristics, that a monohybrid cross gives rise to four possible recombinant genotypes, a dihybrid cross gives rise to 16 possible recombinant genotypes, and so forth.




Phenotype and genotype ratios are probabilistic. If recessive genes are desired for three traits it is not effective to raise only 64 offspring and count on getting one homozygous recessive individual. To increase the probability of success it is better to raise hundreds of offspring, choosing only the best homozygous recessive individuals as future parents. All laws of inheritance are based on chance and offspring may not approach predicted ratios until many more have been phenotypically characterized and grouped than the theoretical minimums.




The genotype of each individual is expressed by a mosaic of thousands of subtle overlapping traits. It is the sum total of these traits that determines the general phenotype of an individual. It is often difficult to determine if the characteristic being selected is one trait or the blending of several traits and whether these traits are controlled by one or several pairs of genes. It often makes little difference that a breeder does not have plants that are proven to breed true. Breeding goals can still be established. The selfing of F1 hybrids will often give rise to the variation needed in the F2 generation for selecting parents for subsequent generations, even if the characteristics of the original parents of the F1 hybrid are not known. It is in the following generations that fixed characteristics appear and the breeding of pure strains can begin. By selecting and crossing individuals that most nearly approach the ideal described by the breeding goals, the variety can be continuously improved even if the exact patterns of inheritance are never deter mined. Complementary traits are eventually combined into one line whose seeds reproduce the favorable parental traits. Inbreeding strains also allows weak recessive traits to express themselves and these abnormalities must be diligently removed from the breeding population. After five or six generations, strains become amazingly uniform. Vigor is occasionally restored by crossing with other lines or by backcrossing.




Parental plants are selected which most nearly approach the ideal. If a desirable trait is not expressed by the parent, it is much less likely to appear in the offspring. It is imperative that desirable characteristics be hereditary and not primarily the result of environment and cultivation. Acquired traits are not hereditary and cannot be made hereditary. Breeding for as few traits as possible at one time greatly increases the chance of success. In addition to the specific traits chosen as the aims of breeding, parents are selected which possess other generally desirable traits such as vigor and size. Determinations of dominance and recessiveness can only be made by observing the outcome of many crosses, although wild traits often tend to be dominant. This is one of the keys to adaptive survival. However, all the possible combinations will appear in the F2 generation if it is large enough, regardless of dominance.




Now, after further simplifying this wonderful system of inheritance, there are additional exceptions to the rules which must be explored. In some cases, a pair of genes may control a trait but a second or third pair of genes is needed to express this trait. This is known as gene inter action. No particular genetic attribute in which we may be interested is totally isolated from other genes and the effects of environment. Genes are occasionally transferred in groups instead of assorting independently. This is known as gene linkage, These genes are spaced along the same chromosome and may or may not control the same trait. The result of linkage might be that one trait cannot be inherited without another. At times, traits are associated with the X and Y sex chromosomes and they may be limited to expression in only one sex (sex linkage). Crossing over also interferes with the analysis of crosses. Crossing over is the exchanging of entire pieces of genetic material between two chromosomes. This can result in two genes that are normally linked appearing on separate chromosomes where they will be independently inherited. All of these processes can cause crosses to deviate from the expected Mendelian outcome. Chance is a major factor in breeding Cannabis, or any introduced plant, and the more crosses a breeder attempts the higher are the chances of success.




Variate, isolate, intermate, evaluate, multiplicate, and disseminate are the key words in plant improvement. A plant breeder begins by producing or collecting various prospective parents from which the most desirable ones are selected and isolated. Intermating of the select parents results in offspring which must be evaluated for favorable characteristics. If evaluation indicates that the offspring are not improved, then the process is repeated. Improved off spring are multiplied and disseminated for commercial use. Further evaluation in the field is necessary to check for uniformity and to choose parents for further intermating. This cyclic approach provides a balanced system of plant improvement.




The basic nature of Cannabis makes it challenging to breed. Wind pollination and dioecious sexuality, which account for the great adaptability in Cannabis, cause many problems in breeding, but none of these are insurmountable. Developing a knowledge and feel for the plant is more important than memorizing Mendelian ratios. The words of the great Luther Burbank say it well, "Heredity is indelibly fixed by repetition."




The first set of traits concerns Cannabis plants as a whole while the remainder concern the qualities of seedlings, leaves, fibers, and flowers. Finally a list of various Cannabis strains is provided along with specific characteristics. Following this order, basic and then specific selections of favorable characteristics can be made. 


* LIST OF FAVORABLE TRAITS OF CANNABIS* In Which Variation Occurs




1. General Traits




a) Size and Yield




b) Vigor




c) Adaptability




d) Hardiness




e) Disease and Pest Resistance




f) Maturation




g) Root Production




h) Branching




i) Sex




2. Seedling Traits




3. Leaf Traits




4. Fiber Traits




5. Floral Traits




a) Shape




b) Form




c) Calyx Size




d) Color




e) Cannabinoid Level




f) Taste and Aroma




g) Persistence of Aromatic Principles and Cannabinoids




h) Trichome Type




i) Resin Quantity and Quality




j) Resin Tenacity




k) Drying and Curing Rate




I) Ease of Manicuring




m) Seed Characteristics




n) Maturation




o) Flowering




p) Ripening




q) Cannabinoid Profile




6. Gross Phenotypes of Cannabis Strains




1. General Traits




a) Size and Yield - The size of an individual Cannabis plant is determined by environmental factors such as room for root and shoot growth, adequate light and nutrients, and proper irrigation. These environmental factors influence the phenotypic image of genotype, but the genotype of the individual is responsible for overall variations in gross morphology, including size. Grown under the same conditions, particularly large and small individuals are easily spotted and selected. Many dwarf Cannabis plants have been re ported and dwarfism may be subject to genetic control, as it is in many higher plants, such as dwarf corn and citrus. Cannabis parents selected for large size tend to produce offspring of a larger average size each year. Hybrid crosses between tall (Cannabis sativa-Mexico) strains and short (Cannabis ruderalis-Russia) strains yield F1 offspring of intermediate height (Beutler and der Marderosian 197. Hybrid vigor, however, will influence the size of offspring more than any other genetic factor. The increased size of hybrid offspring is often amazing and accounts for much of the success of Cannabis cultivators in raising large plants. It is not known whether there is a set of genes for "gigantism" in Cannabis or whether polyploid individuals really yield more than diploid due to increased chromosome count. Tetraploids tend to be taller and their water re quirements are often higher than diploids. Yield is determined by the overall production of fiber, seed, or resin and selective breeding can be used to increase the yield of any one of these products. However, several of these traits may be closely related, and it may be impossible to breed for one without the other (gene linkage). Inbreeding of a pure strain increases yield only if high yield parents are selected. High yield plants, staminate or pistillate, are not finally selected until the plants are dried and manicured. Because of this, many of the most vigorous plants are crossed and seeds selected after harvest when the yield can be measured.




b) Vigor - Large size is often also a sign of healthy vigorous growth. A plant that begins to grow immediately will usually reach a larger size and produce a higher yield in a short growing season than a sluggish, slow-growing plant. Parents are always selected for rich green foliage and rapid, responsive growth. This will ensure that genes for certain weaknesses in overall growth and development are bred out of the population while genes for strength and vigor remain.




c) Adaptability - It is important for a plant with a wide distribution such as Cannabis to be adaptable to many different environmental conditions. Indeed, Cannabis is one of the most genotypically diverse and phenotypically plastic plants on earth; as a result it has adapted to environ mental conditions ranging from equatorial to temperate climates. Domestic agricultural circumstances also dictate that Cannabis must be grown under a great variety of conditions,




Plants to be selected for adaptability are cloned and grown in several locations. The parental stocks with the highest survival percentages can be selected as prospective parents for an adaptable strain. Adaptability is really just another term for hardiness under varying growth conditions.




d) Hardiness - The hardiness of a plant is its overall resistance to heat and frost, drought and overwatering, and so on. Plants with a particular resistance appear when adverse conditions lead to the death of the rest of a large population. The surviving few members of the population might carry inheritable resistance to the environmental factor that destroyed the majority of the population. Breeding these survivors, subjecting the offspring to continuing stress conditions, and selecting carefully for several generations should result in a pure-breeding strain with increased resistance to drought, frost, or excessive heat.




e) Disease and Pest Resistance - In much the same way as for hardiness a strain may be bred for resistance to a certain disease, such as damping-off fungus. If flats of seedlings are infected by damping-off disease and nearly all of them die, the remaining few will have some resistance to damping-off fungus. If this resistance is inheritable, it can be passed on to subsequent generations by crossing these surviving plants. Subsequent crossing, tested by inoculating flats of seedling offspring with damping-off fungus, should yield a more resistant strain.




Resistance to pest attack works in much the same way. It is common to find stands of Cannabis where one or a few plants are infested with insects while adjacent plants are untouched. Cannabinoid and terpenoid resins are most probably responsible for repelling insect attack, and levels of these vary from plant to plant. Cannabis has evolved defenses against insect attack in the form of resin-secreting glandular trichomes, which cover the reproductive and associated vegetative structures of mature plants. Insects, finding the resin disagreeable, rarely attack mature Cannabis flowers. However, they may strip the outer leaves of the same plant because these develop fewer glandular tri chomes and protective resins than the flowers. Non-glandular cannabinoids and other compounds produced within leaf and stem tissues which possibly inhibit insect attack, may account for the varying resistance of seedlings and vegetative juvenile plants to pest infestation. With the popularity of greenhouse Cannabis cultivation, a strain is needed with increased resistance to mold, mite, aphid,- or white fly infestation. These problems are often so severe that greenhouse cultivators destroy any plants which are attacked. Molds usually reproduce by wind-borne spores, so negligence can rapidly lead to epidemic disaster. Selection and breeding of the least infected plants should result in strains with increased resistance.




f) Maturation - Control of the maturation of Cannabis is very important no matter what the reason for growing it. If Cannabis is to be grown for fiber it is important that the maximum fiber content of the crop be reached early and that all of the individuals in the crop mature at the same time to facilitate commercial harvesting. Seed production requires the even maturation of both pollen and seed parents to ensure even setting and maturation of seeds. An uneven maturation of seeds would mean that some seeds would drop and be lost while others are still ripening. An understanding of floral maturation is the key to the production of high quality drug Cannabis. Changes in gross morphology are accompanied by changes in cannabinoid and terpenoid production and serve as visual keys to deter mining the ripeness of Cannabis flowers.




A Cannabis plant may mature either early or late, be fast or slow to flower, and ripen either evenly or sequentially.




Breeding for early or late maturation is certainly a reality; it is also possible to breed for fast or slow flowering and even or sequential ripening. In general, crosses between early-maturing plants give rise to early-maturing offspring, crosses between late-maturing plants give rise to late-maturing offspring, and crosses between late- and early-maturing plants give rise to offspring of intermediate maturation. This seems to indicate that maturation of Cannabis is not controlled by the simple dominance and recessiveness of one gene but probably results from incomplete dominance and a combination of genes for separate aspects of maturation. For instance, Sorghum maturation is controlled by four separate genes. The sum of these genes produces a certain phenotype for maturation. Al though breeders do not know the action of each specific gene, they still can breed for the total of these traits and achieve results more nearly approaching the goal of timely maturation than the parental strains.




g) Root Production - The size and shape of Cannabis root systems vary greatly. Although every embryo sends out a taproot from which lateral roots grow, the individual growth pattern and final size and shape of the roots vary considerably. Some plants send out a deep taproot, up to 1 meter (39 inches) long, which helps support the plant against winds and rain. Most Cannabis plants, however, produce a poor taproot which rarely extends more than 30 centimeters (1 foot). Lateral growth is responsible for most of the roots in Cannabis plants. These fine lateral roots offer the plant additional support but their primary function is to absorb water and nutrients from the soil. A large root system will be able to feed and support a large plant. Most lateral roots grow near the surface of the soil where there is more water, more oxygen, and more avail able nutrients. Breeding for root size and shape may prove beneficial for the production of large rain- and wind-resistant strains. Often Cannabis plants, even very large ones, have very small and sensitive root systems. Recently, certain alkaloids have been discovered in the roots of Cannabis that might have some medical value. If this proves the case, Cannabis may be cultivated and bred for high alkaloid levels in the roots to be used in the commercial production of pharmaceuticals.




As with many traits, it is difficult to make selections for root types until the parents are harvested. Because of this many crosses are made early and seeds selected later.




h) Branching - The branching pattern of a Cannabis plant is determined by the frequency of nodes along each branch and the extent of branching at each node. For examples, consider a tall, thin plant with slender limbs made up of long internodes and nodes with little branching (Oaxaca, Mexico strain). Compare this with a stout, densely branched plant with limbs of short internodes and highly branched nodes (Hindu Kush hashish strains). Different branching patterns are preferred for the different agricultural applications of fiber, flower, or resin production. Tall, thin plants with long internodes and no branching are best adapted to fiber production; a short, broad plant with short inter nodes and well developed branching is best adapted to floral production. Branching structure is selected that will tolerate heavy rains and high winds without breaking. This is quite advantageous to outdoor growers in temperate zones with short seasons. Some breeders select tall, limber plants (Mexico) which bend in the wind; others select short, stiff plants (Hindu Kush) which resist the weight of water without bending.




i) Sex - Attempts to breed offspring of only one sexual type have led to more misunderstanding than any other facet of Cannabis genetics. The discoveries of McPhee (1925) and Schaffner (192 showed that pure sexual type and hermaphrodite conditions are inherited and that the percentage of sexual types could be altered by crossing with certain hermaphrodites. Since then it has generally been assumed by researchers and breeders that a cross between ANY unselected hermaphrodite plant and a pistillate seed-parent should result in a population of all pistillate offspring. This is not the case. In most cases, the offspring of hermaphrodite parents tend toward hermaphrodism, which is largely unfavorable for the production of Cannabis other than fiber hemp. This is not to say that there is no tendency for hermaphrodite crosses to alter sex ratios in the offspring. The accidental release of some pollen from predominantly pistillate hermaphrodites, along with the complete eradication of nearly every staminate and staminate hermaphrodite plant may have led to a shift in sexual ratio in domestic populations of sinsemilla drug Cannabis. It is commonly observed that these strains tend toward 60% to 80% pistillate plants and a few pistillate hermaphrodites are not uncommon in these populations.




However, a cross can be made which will produce nearly all pistillate or staminate individuals. If the proper pistillate hermaphrodite plant is selected as the pollen-parent and a pure pistillate plant is selected as the seed-parent it is possible to produce an F1, and subsequent generations, of nearly all pistillate offspring. The proper pistillate hermaphrodite pollen-parent is one which has grown as a pure pistillate plant and at the end of the sea son, or under artificial environmental stress, begins to develop a very few staminate flowers. If pollen from these few staminate flowers forming on a pistillate plant is applied to a pure pistillate seed parent, the resulting F1 generation should be almost all pistillate with only a few pistillate hermaphrodites. This will also be the case if the selected pistillate hermaphrodite pollen source is selfed and bears its own seeds. Remember that a selfed hermaphrodite gives rise to more hermaphrodites, but a selfed pistillate plant that has given rise to a limited number of staminate flowers in response to environmental stresses should give rise to nearly all pistillate offspring. The F1 offspring may have a slight tendency to produce a few staminate flowers under further environmental stress and these are used to produce F2 seed. A monoecious strain produces 95+% plants with many pistillate and staminate flowers, but a dioecious strain produces 95+% pure pistillate or staminate plants. A plant from a dioecious strain with a few inter sexual flowers is a pistillate or staminate hermaphrodite. Therefore, the difference between monoecism and her maphrodism is one of degree, determined by genetics and environment.




Crosses may also be performed to produce nearly all staminate offspring. This is accomplished by crossing a pure staminate plant with a staminate plant that has produced a few pistillate flowers due to environmental stress, or selfing the latter plant. It is readily apparent that in the wild this is not a likely possibility. Very few staminate plants live long enough to produce pistillate flowers, and when this does happen the number of seeds produced is limited to the few pistillate flowers that occur. In the case of a pistillate hermaphrodite, it may produce only a few staminate flowers, but each of these may produce thou sands of pollen grains, any one of which may fertilize one of the plentiful pistillate flowers, producing a seed. This is another reason that natural Cannabis populations tend toward predominantly pistillate and pistillate hermaphrodite plants. Artificial hermaphrodites can be produced by hormone sprays, mutilation, and altered light cycles. These should prove most useful for fixing traits and sexual type.




Drug strains are selected for strong dioecious tendencies. Some breeders select strains with a sex ratio more nearly approaching one than a strain with a high pistillate sex ratio. They believe this reduces the chances of pistillate plants turning hermaphrodite later in the season.




2. Seedling Traits




Seedling traits can be very useful in the efficient and purposeful selection of future parental stock. If accurate selection can be exercised on small seedlings, much larger populations can be grown for initial selection, as less space is required to raise small seedlings than mature plants. Whorled phyllotaxy and resistance to damping-off are two traits that may be selected just after emergence of the embryo from the soil. Early selection for vigor, hardiness, resistance, and general growth form may be made when the seedlings are from 30 to 90 centimeters (1 to 3 feet) tall. Leaf type, height, and branching are other criteria for early selection. These early-selected plants cannot be bred until they mature, but selection is the primary and most important step in plant improvement.




Whorled phyllotaxy is associated with subsequent anomalies in the growth cycle (i.e., multiple leaflets and flattened or clubbed stems). Also, most whorled plants are staminate and whorled phyllotaxy may be sex-linked.




3. Leaf Traits




Leaf traits vary greatly from strain to strain. In addition to these regularly occurring variations in leaves, there are a number of mutations and possible traits in leaf shape. It may turn out that leaf shape is correlated with other traits in Cannabis. Broad leaflets might be associated with a low calyx-to-leaf ratio and narrow leaflets might be associated with a high calyx-to-leaf ratio. If this is the case, early selection of seedlings by leaflet shape could determine the character of the flowering clusters at harvest. Both compound and webbed leaf variations seem to be hereditary, as are general leaf characteristics. A breeder may wish to develop a unique leaf shape for an ornamental strain or increase leaf yield for pulp production.




A peculiar leaf mutation was reported from an F1-Colombian plant in which two leaves on the plant, at the time of flowering, developed floral clusters of 5-10 pistil late calyxes at the intersection of the leaflet array and the petiole attachment, on the adaxial (top) side of the leaf. One of these clusters developed a partial staminate flower but fertilization was unsuccessful. It is unknown if this mutation is hereditary.




From Afghanistan, another example has been observed with several small floral clusters along the petioles of many of the large primary leaves.




4. Fiber Traits




More advanced breeding has occurred in fiber strains than any other type of Cannabis. Over the years many strains have been developed with improved maturation, in creased fiber content, and improved fiber quality as regards length, strength, and suppleness. Extensive breeding programs have been carried on in France, Italy, Russia, and the United States to develop better varieties of fiber Cannabis. Tall limbless strains that are monoecious are most desirable. Monoeciousness is favored, because in dioecious populations the staminate plants will mature first and the fibers will become brittle before the pistillate plants are ready for harvest. The fiber strains of Europe are divided into northern and southern varieties. The latter require higher temperatures and a longer vegetative period and as a result grow taller and yield more fiber.




5. Floral Traits




Many individual traits determine the floral characteristics of Cannabis This section will focus on the individual traits of pistillate floral clusters with occasional comments about similar traits in staminate floral clusters. Pistillate flowering clusters are the seed-producing organs of Cannabis; they remain on the plant and go through many changes that cannot be compared to staminate plants.




a) Shape - The basic shape of a floral cluster is determined by the internode lengths along the main floral axis and within individual floral clusters. Dense, long clusters result when internodes are short along a long floral axis and there are short internodes within the individual compact floral clusters (Hindu Kush). Airy clusters result when a plant forms a stretched floral axis with long internodes between well-branched individual floral clusters (Thailand).




The shape of a floral cluster is also determined by the general growth habit of the plant. Among domestic Cannabis phenotypes, for instance, it is obvious that floral clusters from a creeper phenotype plant will curve upwards at the end, and floral clusters from the huge upright phenotype will have long, straight floral clusters of various shapes. Early in the winter, many strains begin to stretch and cease calyx production in preparation for rejuvenation and sub sequent vegetative growth in the spring. Staminate plants also exhibit variation in floral clusters. Some plants have tight clusters of staminate calyxes resembling inverted grapes (Hindu Kush) and others have long, hanging groups of flowers on long, exposed, leafless branches (Thailand).




b) Form - The form of a floral cluster is determined by the numbers and relative proportions of calyxes and flowers. A leafy floral cluster might be 70% leaves and have a calyx-to-leaf ratio of 1-to-4. It is obvious that strains with a high calyx-to-leaf ratio are more adapted to calyx production, and therefore, to resin production. This factor could be advantageous in characterizing plants as future parents of drug strains. At this point it must be noted that pistillate floral clusters are made up of a number of distinct parts. They include stems, occasional seeds, calyxes, inner leaves subtending calyx pairs (small, resinous, 1-3 leaflets), and outer leaves subtending entire floral clusters (larger, little resin, 3-11 leaflets). The ratios (by dry weight) of these various portions vary by strain, degree of pollination, and maturity of the floral clusters. Maturation is a reaction to environmental change, and the degree of maturity reached is subject to climatic limits as well as breeder's preference. Because of this interplay between environment and genetics in the control of floral form it is often difficult to breed Cannabis for floral characteristics. A thorough knowledge of the way a strain matures is important in separating possible inherited traits of floral clusters from acquired traits. Chapter IV, Maturation and Harvesting of Cannabis, delves into the secrets and theories of maturation. For now, we will assume that the following traits are described from fully mature floral clusters (peak floral stage) before any decline.




c) Calyx Size - Mature calyxes range in size from 2 to 12 millimeters (1/16 to 3/8 inch) in length. Calyx size is largely dependent upon age and maturity. Calyx size of a floral cluster is best expressed as the average length of the mature viable calyxes. Calyxes are still considered viable if both pistils appear fresh and have not begun to curl or change colors. At this time, the calyx is relatively straight and has not begun to swell with resin and change shape as it will when the pistils die. It is generally agreed that the production of large calyxes is often as important in deter mining the psychoactivity of a strain as the quantity of calyxes produced. Hindu Kush, Thai, and Mexican strains are some of the most psychoactive strains, and they are often characterized by large calyxes and seeds.




Calyx size appears to be an inherited trait in Cannabis. Completely acclimatized hybrid strains usually have many rather small calyxes, while imported strains with large calyxes retain that size when inbred.




Initial selection of large seeds increases the chance that offspring will be of the large-calyx variety. Aberrant calyx development occasionally results in double or fused calyxes, both of which may set seed. This phenomenon is most pronounced in strains from Thailand and India.




d) Color - The perception and interpretation of color in Cannabis floral clusters is heavily influenced by the imagination of the cultivator or breeder. A gold strain does not appear metallic any more than a red strain resembles a fire engine. Cannabis floral clusters are basically green, but changes may take place later in the season which alter the color to include various shades. The intense green of chlorophyll usually masks the color of accessory pigments, Chlorophyll tends to break down late in the season and anthocyanin pigments also contained in the tissues are unmasked and allowed to show through. Purple, resulting from anthocyanin accumulation, is the most common color in living Cannabis, other than green. This color modification is usually triggered by seasonal change, much as the leaves of many deciduous trees change color in the fall. This does not mean, however, that expression of color is controlled by environment alone and is not an inheritable trait. For purple color to develop upon maturation, a strain must have the genetically controlled metabolic potential to pro duce anthocyanin pigments coupled with a responsiveness to environmental change such that anthocyanin pigments are unmasked and become visible. This also means that a strain could have the genes for expression of purple color but the color might never be expressed if the environmental conditions did not trigger anthocyanin pigmentation or chlorophyll breakdown. Colombian and Hindu Kush strains often develop purple coloration year after year when subjected to low night temperatures during maturation. Color changes will be discussed in more detail in Chapter IV-Maturation and Harvesting of Cannabis.




Carotenoid pigments are largely responsible for the yellow, orange, red, and brown colors of Cannabis. They also begin to show in the leaves and calyxes of certain strains as the masking green chlorophyll color fades upon maturation. Gold strains are those which tend to reveal underlying yellow and orange pigments as they mature. Red strains are usually closer to reddish brown in color, although certain carotenoid and anthocyanin pigments are nearly red and localized streaks of these colors occasionally appear in the petioles of very old floral clusters. Red color in pressed, imported tops is often a result of masses of reddish brown dried pistils.




Several different portions of floral cluster anatomy may change colors, and it is possible that different genes may control the coloring of these various parts.




The petioles, adaxial (top) surfaces, and abaxial (bot tom) surfaces of leaves, as well as the stems, calyxes, and pistils color differently in various strains. Since most of the outer leaves are removed during manicuring, the color ex pressed by the calyxes and inner leaves during the late flowering stages will be all that remains in the final product. This is why strains are only considered to be truly purple or gold if the calyxes maintain those colors when dried. Anthocyanin accumulation in the stems is sometimes considered a sign of phosphorus deficiency but in most situations results from unharmful excesses of phosphorus or it is a genetic trait. Also, cold temperatures might interfere with phosphorus uptake resulting in a deficiency. Pistils in Hindu Kush strains are quite often magenta or pink in color when they first appear. They are viable at this time and turn reddish brown when they wither, as in most strains. Purple coloration usually indicates that pistillate plants are over-mature and cannabinoid biosynthesis is slowing down during cold autumn weather.




e) Cannabinoid Level - Breeding Cannabis for cannabinoid level has been accomplished by both licensed legitimate and clandestine researchers. Warmke (1942) and Warmke and Davidson (1943-44) showed that they could significantly raise or lower the cannabinoid level by selective breeding. Small (1975a) has divided genus Cannabis into four distinct chemotypes based on the relative amounts of THC and CBD. Recent research has shown that crosses between high THC: low CBD strains and low THC: high CBD strains yield offspring of cannabinoid content intermediate between the two parents. Beutler and der Marderosian (197 analyzed the F1 offspring of the controlled cross C. Sativa (Mexico-high THC) X C. ruderalis (Russia-low THC) and found that they fell into two groups intermediate between the parents in THC level. This indicates that THC production is most likely controlled by more than one gene. Also the F1 hybrids of lower THC (resembling the staminate parent) were twice as frequent as the higher THC hybrids (resembling the pistillate parent). More re search is needed to learn if THC production in Cannabis is associated with the sexual type of the high THC parent or if high THC characteristics are recessive. According to Small (1979) the cannabinoid ratios of strains grown in northern climates are a reflection of the cannabinoid ratio of the pure, imported, parental strain. This indicates that cannabinoid phenotype is genetically controlled, and the levels of the total cannabinoids are determined by environment. Complex highs produced by various strains of drug Cannabis may be blended by careful breeding to produce hybrids of varying psychoactivity, but the level of total psychoactivity is dependent on environment. This is also the telltale indication that unconscious breeding with undesirable low-THC parents could rapidly lead to the degeneration rather than improvement of a drug strain. It is obvious that individuals of fiber strains are of little if any use in breeding drug strains.




Breeding for cannabinoid content and the eventual characterization of varying highs produced by Cannabis is totally subjective guesswork without the aid of modern analysis techniques. A chromatographic analysis system would allow the selection of specific cannabinoid types, especially staminate pollen parents. Selection of staminate parents always presents a problem when breeding for cannabinoid content. Staminate plants usually express the same ratios of cannabinoids as their pistiliate counterparts but in much lower quantities, and they are rarely allowed to reach full maturity for fear of seeding the pistillate portion of the crop. A simple bioassay for THC content of staminate plants is performed by leaving a series of from three to five numbered bags of leaves and tops of various prospective pollen parents along with some rolling papers in several locations frequented by a steady repeating crowd of marijuana smokers. The bag completely consumed first can be considered the most desirable to smoke and possibly the most psychoactive. It would be impossible for one per son to objectively select the most psychoactive staminate plant since variation in the cannabinoid profile is subtle. The bioassay reported here is in effect an unstructured panel evaluation which averages the opinions of unbiased testers who are exposed to only a few choices at a time. Such bioassay results can enter into selecting the staminate parent.




It is difficult to say how many genes might control THC-acid synthesis. Genetic control of the biosynthetic pathway could occur at many points through the action of enzymes controlling each individual reaction. It is generally accepted that drug strains have an enzyme system which quickly converts CBD-acid to THC-acid, favoring THC-acid accumulation. Fiber strains lack this enzyme activity, so CBD-acid accumulalion is favored since there is little con version to THC-acid. These same enzyme systems are probably also sensitive to changes in heat and light.




It is supposed that variations in the type of high associated with different strains of Cannabis result from varying levels of cannabinoids. THC is the primary psycho active ingredient which is acted upon synergistically by small amounts of CBN, CBD, and other accessory cannabinoids. Terpenes and other aromatic constituents of Cannabis might also potentiate or suppress the effect of THC. We know that cannabinoid levels may be used to establish cannabinoid phenotypes and that these phenotypes are passed on from parent to offspring. Therefore, cannabinoid levels are in part determined by genes. To accurately characterize highs from various individuals and establish criteria for breeding strains with particular cannabinoid contents, an accurate and easy method is needed for measuring cannabinoid levels in prospective parents. Inheritance and expression of cannabinoid chemotype is certainly complex.




f) Taste and Aroma - Taste and aroma are closely linked.




As our senses for differentiating taste and aroma are connected, so are the sources of taste and aroma in Cannabis. Aroma is produced primarily by aromatic terpenes produced as components of the resin secreted by glandular trichomes on the surface of the calyxes and subtending leaflets. When a floral cluster is squeezed, the resinous heads of glandular trichomes rupture and the aromatic terpenes are exposed to the air. There is often a large difference between the aroma of fresh and dry floral clusters. This is explained by the polymerization (joining together in a chain) of many of the smaller molecules of aromatic terpenes to form different aromatic and nonaromatic terpene polymers. This happens as Cannabis resins age and mature, both while the plant is growing and while curing after harvest. Additional aromas may interfere with the primary terpenoid components, such as ammonia gas and other gaseous products given off by the curing, fermentation or spoilage of the tissue (non-resin) portion of the floral clusters.




A combination of at least twenty aromatic terpenes (103 are known to occur in Cannabis) and other aromatic compounds control the aroma of each plant. The production of each aromatic compound may be influenced by many genes; therefore, it is a complex matter to breed Cannabis for aroma. Breeders of perfume roses often are amazed at the complexity of the genetic control of aroma, Each strain, however, has several characteristic aromas, and these are occasionally transmitted to hybrid offspring such that they resemble one or both parents in aroma. Many times breeders complain that their strain has lost the de sired aromatic characteristics of the parental strains. Fixed hybrid strains will develop a characteristic aroma that is hereditary and often true-breeding. The cultivator with preservation of a particular aroma as a goal can clone the individual with a desired aroma in addition to breeding it. This is good insurance in case the aroma is lost in the off spring by segregation and recombination of genes.




The aromas of fresh or dried clusters are sampled and compared in such a way that they are separated to avoid confusion. Each sample is placed in the corner of a twice-folded, labeled piece of unscented writing paper at room temperature (above 650). A light squeeze will release the aromatic principles contained within the resin exuded by the ruptured glandular trichome head. When sampling, never squeeze a floral cluster directly, as the resins will ad here to the fingers and bias further sampling. The folded paper conveniently holds the floral cluster, avoids confusion during sampling, and contains the aromas as a glass does in wine tasting.




Taste is easily sampled by loosely rolling dried floral clusters in a cigarette paper and inhaling to draw a taste across the tongue. Samples should be approximately the same size.




Taste in Cannabis is divided into three categories according to usage: the taste of the aromatic components carried by air that passes over the Cannabis when it is in haled without being lighted; the taste of the smoke from burning Cannabis; and the taste of Cannabis when it is consumed orally. These three are separate entities.




The terpenes contained in a taste of unlighted Cannabis are the same as those sensed in the aroma, but perceived through the sense of taste instead of smell. Orally ingested Cannabis generally tastes bitter due to the vegetative plant tissues, but the resin is characteristically spicy and hot, somewhat like cinnamon or pepper. The taste of Cannabis smoke is determined by the burning tissues and vaporizing terpenes. These terpenes may not be detected in the aroma and unlighted taste.




Biosynthetic relationships between terpenes and cannabinoids have been firmly established. Indeed, cannabinoids are synthesized within the plant from terpene precursors. It is suspected that changes in aromatic terpene levels parallel changes in cannabinoid levels during maturation. As connections between aroma and psycho activity are uncovered, the breeder will be better able to make field selections of prospective high-THC parents without complicated analysis.




g) Persistence of Aromatic Principles and Cannabinoids - Cannabis resins deteriorate as they age, and the aromatic principles and cannabinoids break down slowly until they are hardly noticeable. Since fresh Cannabis is only available once a year in temperate regions, an important breeding goal has been a strain that keeps well when packaged. Packageability and shelf life are important considerations in the breeding of fresh fruit species and will prove equally important if trade in Cannabis develops after legalization.




h) Trichome Type - Several types of trichomes are present on the epidermal surfaces of Cannabis. Several of these trichomes are glandular and secretory in nature and are divided into bulbous, capitate sessile, and capitate stalked types. Of these, the capitate stalked glandular trichomes are apparently responsible for the intense secretion of cannabinoid laden resins. Plants with a high density of capitate stalked trichomes are a logical goal for breeders of drug Cannabis. The number and type of trichomes is easily characterized by observation with a small hand lens (lOX to 50X). Recent research by V. P. Soroka (1979) concludes that a positive correlation exists between the number of glandular trichomes on leaves and calyxes and the various cannabinoid contents of the floral clusters. In other words, many capitate stalked trichomes means higher THC levels.




i) Resin Quantity and Quality - Resin production by the glandular trichomes varies. A strain may have many glandular trichomes but they may not secrete very much resin. Resin color also varies from strain to strain. Resin heads may darken and become more opaque as they mature, as suggested by several authors. Some strains, however, pro duce fresh resins that are transparent amber instead of clear and colorless, and these are often some of the most psycho active strains. Transparent resins, regardless of color, are a sign that the plant is actively carrying out resin biosynthesis. When biosynthesis ceases, resins turn opaque as cannabinoid and aromatic levels decline. Resin color is certainly an indication of the conditions inside the resin head, and this may prove to be another important criterion for breeding.




j) Resin Tenacity - For years strains have been bred for hashish production. Hashish is formed from detached resin heads. In modern times it might be feasible to breed a strain with high resin production that gives up its precious covering of resin heads with only moderate shaking, rather than the customary flailing that also breaks up the plant. This would facilitate hashish production. Strains that are bred for use as marijuana would benefit from extremely tenacious resin heads that would not fall off during packaging and shipment.




k) Drying and Curing Rate - The rate and extent to which Cannabis dries is generally determined by the way it is dried, but, all conditions being the same, some strains dry much more rapidly and completely than others. It is assumed that resin has a role in preventing desiccation and high resin content might retard drying. However, it is a misconception that resin is secreted to coat and seal the surface of the calyxes and leaves. Resin is secreted by glandular trichomes, but they are trapped under a cuticle layer surrounding the head cells of the trichome holding the resin away from the surface of the leaves. There it would rarely if ever have a chance to seal the surface of the epidermal layer and prevent the transpiration of water. It seems that an alternate reason must be found for the great variations in rate and extent of drying. Strains may be bred that dry and cure rapidly to save valuable time.




1) Ease of Manicuring - One of the most time-consuming aspects of commercial drug Cannabis production is the seemingly endless chore of manicuring, or removing the larger leaves from the floral clusters. These larger outer leaves are not nearly as psychoactive as the inner leaves and calyxes, so they are usually removed before selling as marijuana. Strains with fewer leaves obviously require less time to manicure. Long petioles on the leaves facilitate removal by hand with a small pair of scissors. If there is a marked size difference between very large outer leaves and tiny, resinous inner leaves it is easier to manicure quickly because it is easier to see which leaves to remove.




n) Maturation - Cannabis strains differ greatly as to when they mature and how they respond to changing environment. Some strains, such as Mexican and Hindu Kush, are famous for early maturation, and others, such as Colombian and Thai, are stubborn in maturing and nearly always finish late, if at all. Imported strains are usually characterized as either early, average, or late in maturing; however, a particular strain may produce some individuals which mature early and others which mature late. Through selection, breeders have, on the one hand, developed strains that mature in four weeks, outdoors under temperate conditions; and on the other hand, they have developed green house strains that mature in up to four months in their protected environment. Early maturation is extremely advantageous to growers who live in areas of late spring and early fall freezes. Consequently, especially early-maturing plants are selected as parents for future early-maturing strains.




o) Flowering - Once a plant matures and begins to bear flowers it may reach peak floral production in a few weeks, or the floral clusters may continue to grow and develop for several months. The rate at which a strain flowers is independent of the rate at which it matures, so a plant may wait until late in the season to flower and then grow extensive, mature floral clusters in only a few weeks.




p) Ripening - Ripening of Cannabis flowers is the final step in their maturation process Floral clusters will usually mature and ripen in rapid succession, but sometimes large floral clusters will form and only after a period of apparent hesitation will the flowers begin to produce resin and ripen. Once ripening starts it usually spreads over the entire plant, but some strains, such as those from Thailand, are known to ripen a few floral clusters at a time over several months. Some fruit trees are similarly everbearing with a yearlong season of production. Possibly Cannabis strains could be bred that are true everbearing perennials that continue to flower and mature consistently all year long.




q) Cannabinoid Profile - It is supposed that variations in the type of high associated with different strains of Cannabis result from varying levels of cannabinoids. THC is the primary psychoactive ingredient which is acted upon synergistically by small amounts of CBN, CBD, and other accessory cannabinoids. We know that cannabinoid levels may be used to establish cannabinoid phenotypes and that these phenotypes are passed on from parent to offspring. Therefore, cannabinoid levels are in part determined by genes. To accurately characterize highs from various individuals and establish criteria for breeding strains with particular cannabinoid contents, an accurate and easy method is necessary for measuring cannabinoid levels in prospective parents.




Various combinations of these traits are possible and inevitable. The traits that we most often see are most likely dominant and any effort to alter genetics and improve Cannabis strains are most easily accomplished by concentrating on the major phenotypes for the most important traits. The best breeders set high goals of a limited scope and adhere to their ideals.




6. Gross Phenotypes of Cannabis Strains




The gross phenotype or general growth form is deter mined by size, root production, branching pattern, sex, maturation, and floral characteristics. Most imported varieties have characteristic gross phenotypes although there tend to be occasional rare examples of almost every phenotype in nearly every variety. This indicates the complexity of genetic control determining gross phenotype. Hybrid crosses between imported pure varieties were the beginning of nearly every domestic strain of Cannabis. In hybrid crosses, some dominant characteristics from each parental variety are exhibited in various combinations by the F1 offspring. Nearly all of the offspring will resemble both parents and very few will resemble only one parent. This sounds like it is saying a lot, but this F1 hybrid generation is far from true-breeding and the subsequent F2 generation will exhibit great variation, tending to look more like one or the other of the original imported parental varieties, and will also exhibit recessive traits not apparent in either of the original parents. If the F1 offspring are desirable plants it will be difficult to continue the hybrid traits in subsequent generations. Enough of the original F1 hybrid seeds are produced so they may be used year after year to pro-duce uniform crops of desirable plants.




*PHENOTYPES AND CHARACTERISTICS* Of imported strains




Following is a list of gross phenotypes and characteristics for many imported strains of Cannabis.




1. Fiber Strain Gross Phenotypes (hemp types)




2. Drug Strain Gross Phenotypes




a) Colombia - highland, lowland (marijuana)




b) Congo - (marijuana)




c) Hindu Kush - Afghanistan and Pakistan (hashish)




d) Southern India - (ganja marijuana)




e) Jamaica - Carribean hybrids




f) Kenya - Kisumu (dagga marijuana)




g) Lebanon - (hashish)




h) Malawi, Africa - Lake Nyasa (dagga marijuana)




i) Mexico - Michoacan, Oaxaca, Guerrero (marijuana)




j) Morocco - Rif mountains (kif marijuana and hashish)




h) Nepal - wild (ganja marijuana and hashish)




1) Russian - ruderalis (uncultivated)




m) South Africa - (dagga marijuana)




n) Southeast Asia - Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam (ganja marijuana)




3. Hybrid Drug Phenotypes




a) Creeper Phenotype




b) Huge Upright Phenotype




In general the F1 and F2 pure-bred offspring of these imported varieties are more similar to each other than they are to other varieties and they are termed pure strains.




However, it should be remembered that these are average. Gross phenotypes and recessive variations within each trait will occur. In addition, these representations are based on unpruned plants growing in ideal conditions and stress will alter the gross phenotype. Also, the protective environment of a greenhouse tends to obscure the difference between different strains. This section presents information that is used in the selection of pure strains for breeding.




1. Fiber Strain Gross Phenotypes Fiber strains are characterized as tall, rapidly maturing, limbless plants which are often monoecious. This growth habit has been selected by generations of fiber-producing farmers to facilitate forming long fibers through even growth and maturation. Monoecious strains mature more evenly than dioecious strains, and fiber crops are usually not grown long enough to set seed which interferes with fiber production. Most varieties of fiber Cannabis originate in the northern temperate climates of Europe, Japan, China and North America. Several strains have been selected from the prime hemp growing areas and offered commercially over the last fifty years in both Europe and America. Escaped fiber strains of the midwestern United States are usually tall, skinny, relatively poorly branched, weakly flowered, and low in cannabinoid production. They represent an escaped race of Cannabis sativa hemp. Most fiber strains contain CBD as the primary cannabinoid and little if any THC.




2. Drug Strain Gross Phenotypes Drug strains are characterized by Delta1-THC as the primary cannabinoid, with low levels of other accessory cannabinoids such as THCV, CBD, CBC, and CBN. This results from selective breeding for high potency or natural selection in niches where Delta1-THC biosynthesis favors survival.




a) Colombia - (0 to 10 north latitude)




Colombian Cannabis originally could be divided into two basic strains: one from the low-altitude humid coastal areas along the Atlantic near Panama, and the other from the more arid mountain areas inland from Santa Marta. More recently, new areas of cultivation in the interior plateau of southern central Colombia and the highland valleys stretching southward from the Atlantic coast have become the primary areas of commercial export Cannabis cultivation. Until recent years high quality Cannabis was available through the black market from both coastal and highland Colombia. Cannabis was introduced to Colombia just over 100 years ago, and its cultivation is deeply rooted in tradition. Cultivation techniques often involve transplanting of selected seedlings and other individual attention. The production of "la mona amarilla" or gold buds is achieved by girdling or removing a strip of bark from the main stem of a nearly mature plant, thereby restricting the flow of water, nutrients, and plant products. Over several days the leaves dry up and fall off as the flowers slowly die and turn yellow. This produces the highly prized "Colombian gold" so prevalent in the early to middle 1970s (Partridge 1973). Trade names such as "punta roja" (red tips [pistils] ), "Cali Hills," "choco," "lowland," "Santa Marta gold," and "purple" give us some idea of the color of older varieties and the location of cultivation.




In response to an incredible demand by America for Cannabis, and the fairly effective control of Mexican Cannabis importation and cultivation through tightening border security and the use of Paraquat, Colombian farmers have geared up their operations. Most of the marijuana smoked in America is imported from Colombia. This also means that the largest number of seeds available for domes tic cultivation also originate in Colombia. Cannabis agri-business has squeezed out all but a few small areas where labor-intensive cultivation of high quality drug Cannabis such as "Ia mona amarilla" can continue. The fine marijuana of Colombia was often seedless, but commercial grades are nearly always well seeded. As a rule today, the more remote highland areas are the centers of commercial agriculture and few of the small farmers remain. It is thought that some highland farmers must still grow fine Cannabis, and occasional connoisseur crops surface. The older seeds from the legendary Colombian strains are now highly prized by breeders. In the heyday of "Colombian gold" this fine cerebral marijuana was grown high in the mountains. Humid lowland marijuana was characterized by stringy, brown, fibrous floral clusters of sedative narcotic high. Now highland marijuana has become the commercial product and is characterized by leafy brown floral clusters and sedative effect. Many of the unfavorable characteristics of imported Colombian Cannabis result from hurried commercial agricultural techniques combined with poor curing and storage. Colombian seeds still contain genes favoring vigorous growth and high THC production. Colombian strains also contain high levels of CBD and CBN, which could account for sedative highs and result from poor curing and storage techniques. Domestic Colombian strains usually lack CBD and CBN. The commercial Cannabis market has brought about the eradication of some local strains by hybridizing with commercial strains.




Colombian strains appear as relatively highly branched conical plants with a long upright central stem, horizontal limbs and relatively short internodes. The leaves are characterized by highly serrated slender leaflets (7-11) in a nearly complete to overlapping circular array of varying shades of medium green. Colombian strains usually flower late in temperate regions of the northern hemisphere and may fail to mature flowers in colder climates. These strains favor the long equatorial growing seasons and often seem insensitive to the rapidly decreasing daylength during autumn in temperate latitudes. Because of the horizontal branching pattern of Colombian strains and their long growth cycle, pistillate plants tend to produce many flowering clusters along the entire length of the stem back to the central stalk. The small flowers tend to produce small, round, dark, mottled, and brown seeds. Imported and domestic Colombian Cannabis often tend to be more sedative in psychoactivity than other strains. This may be caused by the synergistic effect of THC with higher levels of CBD or CBN. Poor curing techniques on the part of Colombian farmers, such as sun drying in huge piles resembling com post heaps, may form CBN as a degradation product of THC. Colombian strains tend to make excellent hybrids with more rapidly maturing strains such as those from Central and North America.




b) Congo - (5 north to 5 south latitude)




Most seeds are collected from shipments of commercial grade seeded floral clusters appearing in Europe.




c) Hindu Kush Range - Cannabis indica (Afghanistan and Pakistan) - (30 to 37 north latitude)




This strain from the foothills (up to 3,200 meters [10,000 feetj) of the Hindu Kush range is grown in small rural gardens, as it has been for hundreds of years, and is used primarily for the production of hashish. In these areas hashish is usually made from the resins covering the pistil late calyxes and associated leaflets. These resins are re moved by shaking and crushing the flowering tops over a silk screen and collecting the dusty resins that fall off the plants. Adulteration and pressing usually follow in the production of commercial hashish. Strains from this area are often used as type examples for Cannabis indica. Early maturation and the belief by clandestine cultivators that this strain may be exempt from laws controlling Cannabis sativa and indeed may be legal, has resulted in its proliferation throughout domestic populations of "drug" Cannabis. Names such as "hash plant" and "skunk weed" typify its acrid aroma reminiscent of "primo" hashish from the high valleys near Mazar-i-Sharif, Chitral, and Kandahar in Afghanistan and Pakistan.




This strain is characterized by short, broad plants with thick, brittle woody stems and short internodes. The main stalk is usually only four to six feet tall, but the relatively unbranched primary limbs usually grow in an upright fashion until they are nearly as tall as the central stalk and form a sort of upside-down conical shape. These strains are of medium size, with dark green leaves having 5 to 9 very wide, coarsely serrated leaflets in a circular array. The lower leaf surface is often lighter in color than the upper surface. These leaves have so few broad coarse leaflets that they are often compared to a maple leaf. Floral clusters are dense and appear along the entire length of the primary limbs as very resinous leafy balls. Most plants produce flowering clusters with a low calyx-to-leaf ratio, but the inner leaves associated with the calyxes are usually liberally encrusted with resin. Early maturation and extreme resin production is characteristic of these strains. This may be the result of acclimatization to northern temperate latitudes and selection for hashish production. The acrid smell associated with strains from the Hindu Kush appears very early in the seedling stage of both staminate and pistillate individuals and continues throughout the life of the plant. Sweet aromas do often develop but this strain usually loses the sweet fragrance early, along with the clear, cerebral psychoactivity.




Short stature, early maturation, and high resin production make Hindu Kush strains very desirable for hybridizing and indeed they have met with great popularity. The gene pool of imported Hindu Kush strains seems to be dominant for these desirable characteristics and they seem readily passed on to the F1 hybrid generation. A fine hybrid may result from crossing a Hindu Kush variety with a late-maturing, tall, sweet strain from Thailand, India, or Nepal. This produces hybrid offspring of short stature, high resin content, early maturation, and sweet taste that will mature high quality flowers in northern climates. Many hybrid crosses of this type are made each year and are currently cultivated in many areas of North America. Hindu Kush seeds are usually large, round, and dark grey or black in coloring with some mottling.




d) India Centra1 Southern - Kerala, Mysore, and Madras regions (10 to 20 north latitude)




Ganja (or flowering Cannabis tops) has been grown in India for hundreds of years. These strains are usually grown in a seedless fashion and are cured, dried, and smoked as marijuana instead of being converted to hashish as in many Central Asian areas. This makes them of considerable interest to domestic Cannabis cultivators wishing to reap the benefits of years of selective breeding for fine ganja by Indian farmers. Many Europeans and Americans now live in these areas of India and ganja strains are finding their way into domestic American Cannabis crops.




Ganja strains are often tall and broad with a central stalk up to 12 feet tall and spreading highly-branched limbs. The leaves are medium green and made up of 7 to 11 leaf lets of moderate size and serration arranged in a circular array. The frond-like limbs of ganja strains result from extensive compound branching so that by the time floral clusters form they grow from tertiary or quaternary limbs. This promotes a high yield of floral clusters which in ganja strains tend to be small, slender, and curved. Seeds are usually small and dark. Many spicy aromas and tastes occur in Indian ganja strains and they are extremely resinous and psychoactive. Medicinal Cannabis of the late 1800s and early 1900s was usually Indian ganja.




e) Jamaica - (18 north latitude)




Jamaican strains were not uncommon in the late 1960s and early 1970s but they are much rarer today. Both green and brown varieties are grown in Jamaica. The top-of-the-line seedless smoke is known as the "lamb's bread" and is rarely seen outside Jamaica. Most purported Jamaican strains appear stringy and brown much like low land or commercial Colombian strains. Jamaica's close proximity to Colombia and its position along the routes of marijuana smuggling from Colombia to Florida make it likely that Colombian varieties now predominate in Jamaica even if these varieties were not responsible for the original Jamaican strains. Jamaican strains resemble Colombian strains in leaf shape, seed type and general morphology but they tend to be a little taller, thinner, and lighter green. Jamaican strains produce a psychoactive effect of a particularly clear and cerebral nature, unlike many Colombian strains. Some strains may also have come to Jamaica from the Caribbean coast of Mexico, and this may account for the introduction of cerebral green strains.




f) Kenya - Kisumu (5 north to 5 south latitude)




Strains from this area have thin leaves and vary in color from light to dark green. They are characterized by cerebral psychoactivity and sweet taste. Hermaphrodites are common.




g) Lebanon - (34 north latitude)




Lebanese strains are rare in domestic Cannabis crops but do appear from time to time. They are relatively short and slender with thick stems, poorly developed limbs, and wide, medium-green leaves with 5 to 11 slightly broad leaflets. They are often early-maturing and seem to be quite leafy, reflecting a low calyx-to-leaf ratio. The calyxes are relatively large and the seeds flattened, ovoid and dark brown in color. As with Hindu Kush strains, these plants are grown for the production of screened and pressed hashish, and the calyx-to-leaf ratio may be less important than the total resin production for hashish making. Lebanese strains resemble Hindu Kush varieties in many ways and it is likely that they are related.




h) Malawi, Africa - (10 to 15 south latitude)




Malawi is a small country in eastern central Africa bordering Lake Nyasa. Over the past few years Cannabis from Malawi has appeared wrapped in bark and rolled tightly, approximately four ounces at a time. The nearly seedless flowers are spicy in taste and powerfully psycho active. Enthusiastic American and European Cannabis cultivators immediately planted the new strain and it has be come incorporated into several domestic hybrid strains. They appear as a dark green, large plant of medium height and strong limb growth. The leaves are dark green with coarsely serrated, large, slender leaflets arranged in a narrow, drooping, hand-like array. The leaves usually lack serrations on the distal (tip portion) 20% of each leaflet. The mature floral clusters are sometimes airy, resulting from long internodes, and are made up of large calyxes and relatively few leaves. The large calyxes are very sweet and resinous, as well as extremely psychoactive. Seeds are large, shortened, flattened, and ovoid in shape with a dark grey or reddish brown, mottled perianth or seed coat. The caruncle or point of attachment at the base of the seed is uncommonly deep and usually is surrounded by a sharp edged lip. Some individuals turn a very light yellow green in the flowering clusters as they mature under exposed conditions. Although they mature relatively late, they do seem to have met with acceptance in Great Britain and North America as drug strains. Seeds of many strains appear in small batches of low-quality African marijuana easily available in Amsterdam and other European cities. Phenotypes vary considerably, however, many are similar in appearance to strains from Thailand.




i) Mexico - (15 to 27 north latitude)




Mexico had long been the major source of marijuana smoked in America until recent years. Efforts by the border patrols to stop the flow of Mexican marijuana into the United States were only minimally effective and many varieties of high quality Mexican drug Cannabis were continually available. Many of the hybrid strains grown domestic ally today originated in the mountains of Mexico. In recent years, however, the Mexican government (with monetary backing by the United States) began an intensive pro gram to eradicate Cannabis through the aerial spraying of herbicides such as Paraquat. Their program was effective, and high quality Mexican Cannabis is now rarely available. It is ironic that the NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health) is using domestic Mexican Cannabis strains grown in Mississippi as the pharmaceutical research product for chemotherapy and glaucoma patients. In the prime of Mexican marijuana cultivation from the early 1960s to the middle 1970s, strains or "brands" of Cannabis were usually affixed with the name of the state or area where they were grown. Hence names like "Chiapan," "Guerreran," "Nayarit," "Michoacan," "Oaxacan," and "Sinaloan" have geo graphic origins behind their common names and mean something to this very day. All of these areas are Pacific coastal states extending in order from Sinaloa in the north at 27; through Nayarit, Jalisco, Michoacan, Guerrero, and Oaxaca; to Chiapas in the south at 15 - All of these states stretch from the coast into the mountains where Cannabis is grown.




Strains from Michoacan, Guerrero, and Oaxaca were the most common and a few comments may be ventured about each and about Mexican strains in general.




Mexican strains are thought of as tall, upright plants of moderate to large size with light to dark green, large leaves. The leaves are made up of long, medium width, moderately serrated leaflets arranged in a circular array. The plants mature relatively early in comparison to strains from Colombia or Thailand and produce many long floral clusters with a high calyx-to-leaf ratio and highly cerebral psychoactivity. Michoacan strains tend to have very slender leaves and a very high calyx-to-leaf ratio as do Guerreran strains, but Oaxacan strains tend to be broader-leafed, often with leafier floral clusters. Oaxacan strains are generally the largest and grow vigorously, while Michoacan strains are smaller and more delicate. Guerreran strains are often short and develop long, upright lower limbs. Seeds from most Mexican strains are fairly large, ovoid, and slightly flattened with a light colored grey or brown, unmottled perianth. Smaller, darker, more mottled seeds have appeared in Mexican marijuana during recent years. This may indicate that hybridization is taking place in Mexico, possibly with introduced seed from the largest seed source in the world, Colombia. No commercial seeded Cannabis crops are free from hybridization and great variation may occur in the offspring. More recently, large amounts of hybrid domestic seed have been introduced into Mexico. It is not uncommon to find Thai and Afghani phenotypes in recent shipments of Cannabis from Mexico.




j) Morocco, Rif Mountains - (35 north latitude)




The Rif mountains are located in northernmost Morocco near the Mediterranean Sea and range up to 2,500 meters (8,000 feet). On a high plateau surrounding the city of Ketama grows most of the Cannabis used for kif floral clusters and hashish production. Seeds are broad-sown or scattered on rocky terraced fields in the spring, as soon as the last light snows melt, and the mature plants are harvested in late August and September. Mature plants are usually 1 to 2 meters (4 to 6 feet) tall and only slightly branched. This results from crowded cultivation techniques and lack of irrigation. Each pistillate plant bears only one main terminal flower cluster full of seeds. Few staminate plants, if any, are pulled to prevent pollination. Although Cannabis in Morocco was originally cultivated for floral clusters to be mixed with tobacco and smoked as kif, hashish production has begun in the past 30 years due to Western influence. In Morocco, hashish is manufactured by shaking the entire plant over a silk screen and collecting the powdery resins that pass through the screen. It is a matter of speculation whether the original Moroccan kif strains might be extinct. It is reported that some of these strains were grown for seedless flower production and areas of Morocco may still exist where this is the tradition.




Because of selection for hashish production, Moroccan strains resemble both Lebanese and Hindu Kush strains in their relatively broad leaves, short growth habit, and high resin production. Moroccan strains are possibly related to these other Cannabis indica types.




k) Nepal - (26 to 30 north latitude)




Most Cannabis in Nepal occurs in wild stands high in the Himalayan foothills (up to 3,200 meters [10,000 feet]). Little Cannabis is cultivated, and it is from select wild plants that most Nepalese hashish and marijuana originate. Nepalese plants are usually tall and thin with long, slightly branched limbs. The long, thin flowering tops are very aromatic and reminiscent of the finest fresh "temple ball" and "finger" hashish hand-rubbed from wild plants. Resin production is abundant and psychoactivity is high Few Nepalese strains have appeared in domestic Cannabis crops but they do seem to make strong hybrids with strains from domestic sources and Thailand.




I) Russian - (35 to 60 north latitude) Cannabis ruderalis (uncultivated)




Short stature (10 to 50 centimeters [3 to 18 inches]) and brief life cycle (8 to 10 weeks), wide, reduced leaves and specialized seeds characterize weed Cannabis of Russia. Janischewsky (1924) discovered weedy Cannabis and named it Cannabis ruderalis. Ruderalis could prove valuable in breeding rapidly maturing strains for commercial use in temperate latitudes. It flowers when approximately 7 weeks old without apparent dependence on daylength. Russian Cannabis ruderalis is nearly always high in CBD and low in THC.




m) South Africa - (22 to 35 south latitude)




Dagga of South Africa is highly acclaimed. Most seeds have been collected from marijuana shipments in Europe. Some are very early-maturing (September in northern latitudes) and sweet smelling. The stretched light green floral clusters and sweet aroma are comparable to Thai strains.




n) Southeast Asia - Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Vietnam (10 to 20 north latitude)




Since American troops first returned from the war in Vietnam, the Cambodian, Laotian, Thai, and Vietnamese strains have been regarded as some of the very finest in the world. Currently most Southeast Asian  Cannabis is produced in northern and eastern Thailand. Until recent times, Cannabis farming has been a cottage industry of the northern mountain areas and each family grew a small garden. The pride of a farmer in his crop was reflected in the high quality and seedless nature of each carefully wrapped Thai stick. Due largely to the craving of Americans for exotic marijuana, Cannabis cultivation has become a big business in Thailand and many farmers are growing large fields of lower quality Cannabis in the eastern lowlands. It is suspected that other Cannabis strains, brought to Thailand to replenish local strains and begin large plantations, may have hybridized with original Thai strains and altered the resultant genetics. Also, wild stands of Cannabis may now be cut and dried for export.




Strains from Thailand are characterized by tall meandering growth of the main stalk and limbs and fairly extensive branching. The leaves are often very large with 9 to 11 long, slender, coarsely serrated leaflets arranged in a drooping hand like array. The Thai refer to them as "alligator tails" and the name is certainly appropriate.




Most Thai strains are very late-maturing and subject to hermaphrodism. It is not understood whether strains from Thailand turn hermaphrodite as a reaction to the extremes of northern temperate weather or if they have a genetically controlled tendency towards hermaphrodism. To the dismay of many cultivators and researchers, Thai strains mature late, flower slowly, and ripen unevenly. Retarded floral development and apparent disregard for changes in photoperiod and weather may have given rise to the story that Cannabis plants in Thailand live and bear flowers for years. Despite these shortcomings, Thai strains are very psychoactive and many hybrid crosses have been made with rapidly maturing strains, such as Mexican and Hindu Kush, in a successful attempt to create early-maturing hybrids of high psychoactivity and characteristic Thai sweet, citrus taste. The calyxes of Thai strains are very large, as are the seeds and other anatomical features, leading to the misconception that strains may be polyploid. No natural polyploidy has been discovered in any strains of Cannabis though no one has ever taken the time to look thoroughly. The seeds are very large, ovoid, slightly flattened, and light brown or tan in color. The perianth is never mottled or striped except at the base. Greenhouses prove to be the best way to mature stubborn Thai strains in temperate climes.





3. Hybrid Drug Phenotypes




a) Creeper Phenotype - This phenotype has appeared in several domestic Cannabis crops and it is a frequent phenotype in certain hybrid strains. It has not yet been deter mined whether this trait is genetically controlled (dominant or recessive), but efforts to develop a true-breeding strain of creepers are meeting with partial success. This phenotype appears when the main stalk of the seedling has grown to about 1 meter (3 feet) in height. It then begins to bend at approximately the middle of the stalk, up to 700 from the vertical, usually in the direction of the sun. Sub sequently, the first limbs sag until they touch the ground and begin to grow back up. In extremely loose mulch and humid conditions the limbs will occasionally root along the bottom surface. Possibly as a result of increased light exposure, the primary limbs continue to branch once or twice, creating wide frond-like limbs of buds resembling South Indian strains. This phenotype usually produces very high flower yields. The leaves of these creeper phenotype plants are nearly always of medium size with 7-11 long, narrow, highly serrated leaflets.




b) Huge Upright Phenotype - This phenotype is characterized by medium size leaves with narrow, highly serrated leaflets much like the creeper strains, and may also be an acclimatized North American phenotype. In this phenotype, however, a long, straight central stalk from 2 to 4 meters (6.5 to 13 feet) tall forms and the long, slender primary limbs grow in an upright fashion until they are nearly as tall or occasionally taller than the central stalk. This strain resembles the Hindu Kush strains in general shape, except that the entire domestic plant is much larger than the Hindu Kush with long, slender, more highly branched primary limbs, much narrower leaflets, and a higher calyx-to-leaf ratio. These huge upright strains are also hybrids of many different imported strains and no specific origin may be determined.




The preceding has been a listing of gross phenotypes for several of the many strains of Cannabis occurring world wide. Although many of them are rare, the seeds appear occasionally due to the extreme mobility of American and European Cannabis enthusiasts. As a consequence of this extreme mobility, it is feared that many of the world's finest strains of Cannabis have been or may be lost forever due to hybridization with foreign Cannabis populations and the socio-economic displacement of Cannabis cultures worldwide. Collectors and breeders are needed to preserve these rare and endangered gene pools before it is too late.




Various combinations of these traits are possible and inevitable. The traits that we most often see are most likely dominant and the improvement of Cannabis strains through breeding is most easily accomplished by concentrating on the dominant phenotypes for the most important traits. The best breeders set high goals of limited scope and ad here to their ideals.​


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## greengenez (Nov 17, 2011)

Is there a link, to where this comes from?


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## Crash666 (Nov 17, 2011)

Wow, thanks Skunk! Good reading there for sure.


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 17, 2011)

nice long informative post there skunk.. im gonna have to read that a few times to grasp it all...


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## Bluejeans (Nov 17, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> nice long informative post there skunk.. im gonna have to read that a few times to grasp it all...


Copy and paste...then printed the sucker out... I gotta digest that a little at a time. I'm on page 5 of 35...still chewing. Great stuff though!


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## kbz (Nov 17, 2011)

I really wanted to try grape god and now after seeing your girl im ganna order some for sure. Good shit man. What nutes do you run?


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 17, 2011)

kbz said:


> I really wanted to try grape god and now after seeing your girl im ganna order some for sure. Good shit man. What nutes do you run?


Fox farm for now....


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 17, 2011)

No worries guys, I thought some of you would enjoy that article.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 17, 2011)

Fresh smoke report is up & done >>> https://www.rollitup.org/smoke-reports/487718-gage-green-grape-stomper-x.html


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## colocowboy (Nov 18, 2011)

That book is a good one, its widely considered to be one of the best ones on the subject. 
Here is a link to a pdf http://www.mediafire.com/?mjmyoydjjmn


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## itslogics (Nov 18, 2011)

I can't wait to get a new camera, since my old one hit the dust...but I'll be posting more pics here soon. I've got some pretty ladies to show you guys


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 18, 2011)

Good book Skunk! I bought that one on Ebay a couple weeks ago, lol. Very informative.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 18, 2011)

I have decided to flip the grow room this weekend. I'm going 11/13 tomorrow evening. I spent today making sure the room was light tight since this is the first fully fledged flower session in that room.

Here's the girls. This is probably the last pic before they start Phase II:

Red Cherry Berry - Day 31 from Seed














Kaya Gold - Day 12 from Seed






Northern Lights Blue (x6) - Day 16 from Clone






I am considering taking the 6 NLB's and putting them in the grow box for a little more vegging and adding them to the grow room a little later. Meanwhile, the Vanilla Kush just keeps hanging in there. She should be on Day 30 from seed, but instead: 

Day 3 from when I chopped her roots off and turned her into a clone.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 18, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> I have decided to flip the grow room this weekend. I'm going 11/13 tomorrow evening. I spent today making sure the room was light tight since this is the first fully fledged flower session in that room.
> 
> Here's the girls. This is probably the last pic before they start Phase II:
> 
> ...


hey bluejean whats your humidity in your rooms?


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## Bluejeans (Nov 19, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> hey bluejean whats your humidity in your rooms?


Usually between 45-55%... why? You see something I need to know about?


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## Bluejeans (Nov 19, 2011)

Okay, so my little Alice clone...taken from her mom when Mom was nearly 7 weeks flowering...

It's been nearly 30 days and I know she has a decent root system (saw it when I transplanted) but I had seen absolutely nothing to make me think that she was alive and doing well.

I made the decision last night that when I did my rounds today that I was going to toss the poor thing and give up.

Then, when I opened the box this morning, I saw this:


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 19, 2011)

it lives lol nice one 

I was seeing the leather look in your leaves and the last pic look over watered a bit,
the leather look ive seen with plant that are geting to little hum. just some food for thought!


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 19, 2011)

Copied from my Journal- The Batcave Harvest Thread

_"*Space Princess at 70 Days*
Space Princess is
Heaven Scent's Space Princess [Sputnik 1 x C99]
Sputnik 1.0 »»» [(Genius x P75) x (Blackberry x Ak-47) ] X Cinderella99 DANK!
Blueberry Candy Pheno... this may be the best smelling plant I've ever grown..
I really enjoy this one. Will be keeping it on the regular.






*BOOM!*





*
Space Qleaner at 70 Days of 12/12 from Seed*







*New Toys.. Batcave Upgrade*












12" Highoutput Canfan
Speedster Fan Controller from High Tech Garden Supply
Uvonair 3000 Ozone Generator
A C.A.P. Lighting controller!!! The MLC-8X
Phantom 600 Dimmable Electronic Ballast
Ushio Opti-red Super HPS Bulb (Only the best!) 97,000 lumens!
in the box in the back is a new 10"x39" Carbon "Phat Filter"
& a Titan Apollo Timer for the trigger cable on the C.A.P. Light Controller!!
also purchased but not pictured.. a 50 amp Two Pole Breaker and Sixty Feet of Fat 8 gauge Romex Electrical Cable

Really excited about the C.A.P.






This little box has the capability to run Eight 1000 Watt Ballasts at once from a 240V 50amp connection to my electrical panel!! The future looks bright!

I think I'll run the Ushio Opti-red Super HPS Bulb in my Lumatek using the Superlumens feature to see if we can get over 100,000 lumens from one bulb & run another one right next to it. Aircooled of course."_-* Posted today 11/19/2011
*

The Seed Freak in me just wanted to share...


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## karmas a bitch (Nov 19, 2011)

That space princess looks so freakin good. Literally drooling. What size pot is that? How big was she when u flipped her? Topped? Give me the skinny please kind sir


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 19, 2011)

karmas a bitch said:


> That space princess looks so freakin good. Literally drooling. What size pot is that? How big was she when u flipped her? Topped? Give me the skinny please kind sir


Veg'd for only 2 weeks using a 2 gallon container, FF Ocean Forest soil. Was about a foot tall or so from the soil, now she's maybe 32 inches or so tall so little stretch. I usually Veg longer but after buying a house and moving I hadn't had a harvest in a while so I wanted a quick one before the Holiday season. I F'IMed her early and fed her moderately using about 15ml p gal Botanicare PureBlend Pro for Soil as my base nutrient adjusted PH to 6.5 and used a few additives like Liquid Karma, Earth Juice Microblast, Bud Candy, Big Bud, SensiZym, and biweekly feedings of regular old Jamaican Bat Guano tea. I flushed at Day 58 or so.

She smells so freakin good. The smoke reports I've read were really interesting. One claimed California dispensories were flooded with Space Princess all of a sudden.. but the pics I saw of those plants and buds were not close to MTMan's Space Princess pheno #3, the one MTMan claims is the winner.. and the one my pheno seems to mirror. A 50/50 Sputnik/C99 phenotype. Blueberry Candy.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 19, 2011)

BOOM!! Thats a sweetheart Batman, man I love perv'ing over your work mate.


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## Dizzle Frost (Nov 19, 2011)

alota nice gear blowin up in here


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## POUND TOWN (Nov 20, 2011)

check the journal and tell me what u think playrs
only like a month to go


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## karmas a bitch (Nov 20, 2011)

Bluejeans I'm not sure how big your flower area is but I would not veg those nlb clones any longer. They will be nice sized plants if u flip now


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 20, 2011)

POUND TOWN said:


> check the journal and tell me what u think playrs
> only like a month to go


Lookin great there mate and great SCROG'ing work too.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 20, 2011)

karmas a bitch said:


> Bluejeans I'm not sure how big your flower area is but I would not veg those nlb clones any longer. They will be nice sized plants if u flip now


I have enough vertical room for about 4' of growth up to the top setting of the lights, but I'm not aiming to max out. But you are correct and they are ready to go... The plants were switched to 12/12 (well, actually 11/13) today. Thanks! Good to know I'm on the right track...


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## konagirl420 (Nov 21, 2011)

My buddies unknown sativia 

View attachment 1898527View attachment 1898526View attachment 1898525View attachment 1898524View attachment 1898523View attachment 1898522

View attachment 1898521View attachment 1898520View attachment 1898519View attachment 1898518View attachment 1898516View attachment 1898512View attachment 1898511View attachment 1898510View attachment 1898509View attachment 1898508


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## Bluejeans (Nov 21, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> it lives lol nice one
> 
> I was seeing the leather look in your leaves and the last pic look over watered a bit,
> the leather look ive seen with plant that are geting to little hum. just some food for thought!


I don't "think" I've overwatered anybody, but noobs happen...LOL As for the very last pic in that set, that stupid plant is sitting in the Aerogarden, so overwatering her isn't really an issue. I am starting to hate that plant...and I never thought I'd say that about a pot plant...but she's aggravating me. Okay, it's my fault and I abused the hell out of her, but she should have grown anyway. Everybody else did... LOL

I do have a general question though, if somebody could help... I have those NLB's in FFOF with 20% perlite mixed in. So far, I have only given them water since they have been repotted from the beer cups but their leaves are dark green like they are getting too much nutes (not over-nuted, just saturated). Does FFOF have something in it that I'm not aware of that could be fertilizing these plants?

I don't know what to do since I can't give them LESS nutes because I haven't given them any. Am I misreading my plants? I don't have any leaf burn or curl or any other signs that I know how to read. Only very dark green leaves. Maybe NLB has really dark coloring?


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 21, 2011)

Ffof is loaded with all sorts of nutes you shouldnt need to add any nutes for 30 days!
If there good and green then let it ride just dont add anymore


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## Bluejeans (Nov 21, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Ffof is loaded with all sorts of nutes you shouldnt need to add any nutes for 30 days!
> If there good and green then let it ride just dont add anymore


Okay, good to know! Somehow I missed that little tidbit. I feel better now, knowing that they are probably fine. Like I said, there's no nute burn or anything, just dark green leaves. Other than the darkness, I think they are doing fantastic. The growth has really been awesome to watch and now that I've flipped the lights, I bet they are really going to shoot up. Weeeeeeeeeeeeee....so excited!!!!


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## NUTBUSH47 (Nov 21, 2011)

Beautiful.....How long did you veg these for? I think I'm addicted to "BUD PORN" I'd actually prefer it to real porn!! Is it wrong?


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## Bluejeans (Nov 21, 2011)

NUTBUSH47 said:


> Beautiful.....How long did you veg these for? I think I'm addicted to "BUD PORN" I'd actually prefer it to real porn!! Is it wrong?


Says he with a naked ass in his avatar... 

Not much of a porn fan in general, I find I'll skip a meal to look at budporn... LOL


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 21, 2011)

Human porn I'm not a fan of tbh, I have a wife and a healthy sex life lol. But Bud porn I am a raving perv' for so I know just how you feel there, and partly a reason for this threads creation . 
I'll have an update up here later on too.


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 21, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Ffof is loaded with all sorts of nutes you shouldnt need to add any nutes for 30 days!
> If there good and green then let it ride just dont add anymore


Idk I've used FFOF for years and I usually start adding nutes at quarter dose after 2 weeks in. Also it may be important to say what I count as the start of Veg is when those first two fan leaves develop and appear. I keep my seedling in jiffy under a dome till they show.. then move to Ocean Forest. Also I mix it with about 20% perlite. I have went nearly a month without feeding but I've found that by starting at the 2 week point at a low dose is okay and I'm noticing less deficiencies.

It's great stuff that Ocean Forest. I like it a hell of alot more than I like the FoxFarms nute line.. except for GrowBig. I plan on trying Roots Organic Soil sometime.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 22, 2011)

*
"Double Barrel OG" *_- @ Day #83 (total)_

I'll just let the pic's do the talkin' here...
_
*Nutes/levels for flower:
Week#4&5* ~ A+B, C.Boost, PK13/14, "Cal", C'zym ~ *E.C-1.7, ph-5.8/6.1*_









































_*^^ "P#1" ~ @ Flower Day #37*_































_*^^ "P#4" ~ @ Flower Day #30*_

*"FireStarter" *_- @ Day #83_
*"P#1"* ~ Nothing more to say but WOW!! 
*"P#2"* ~ Still feeding mostly water, as she is so sensitive to the nutes and I'm finding she prefers it that way too tbh. So every 4 days I water her seperately with just base A+B ~ E.C 1.4, ph-5.9 

_*Nutes/levels for flower:
Week#4/5* ~ A+B, C'Boost, PK13/14, "Cal", C'zym ~ *E.C-1.7, ph-5.8/6.1*_









































_*^^ "P#1" @ Flower Day #33
*_































_*^^ "P#2" @ Flower Day #14*_

Thanx for looking,


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## konagirl420 (Nov 22, 2011)

Wow Fucking Fantastic Plants Munkie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## greengenez (Nov 22, 2011)

MAN!
Wish my dbl barrels would hurry up and grow. they look out of hand. nice work.
I gotta get some of that firestarter too.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 22, 2011)

Damn Munkie, you're posting porn everywhere I look! Awesome stuff, hun!!! Those Firestarters are really calling my name!! Those came from CZ, no?


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## colocowboy (Nov 22, 2011)

mucho gusto esse
Baked on pics again


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 22, 2011)

Very nice skunk im making some lineup changes so i havent updated much but soon!!!!!!


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## at0ms0ft (Nov 22, 2011)

Very Very nice!! superb plants you have going. I am curious to see those Leia OG though.


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 22, 2011)

Munkie those look fantastic. Double Barrel OG for the Win!
Gotta love the 'Netics/Zon Family Strains!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanx for the love guys 



Bluejeans said:


> Damn Munkie, you're posting porn everywhere I look! Awesome stuff, hun!!! Those Firestarters are really calling my name!! Those came from CZ, no?


Cheers sis', yeah they're the "WhiteFire X Casey Jones" from Sure Fire @CZ, the Double Barrels are from Dankhouse. 



at0ms0ft said:


> Very Very nice!! superb plants you have going. I am curious to see those Leia OG though.


My Leia OG grow can be viewed here fella >>> https://gagegreen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=468. I will add some Leia porn here too as soon as they're in full bloom but the full grow is logged @GGG forum mate


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## mellokitty (Nov 23, 2011)

i love this girl. it's almost time.....


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## konagirl420 (Nov 23, 2011)

Looks very very nice!!!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 23, 2011)

@ mello nice bud porn colors are great!


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## konagirl420 (Nov 23, 2011)

oh yeah!!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 23, 2011)

Sweet work @Mellokitty, she sure is a beuity


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 23, 2011)

*"BlooGoo"* _@ Flower Day #37_

These are on the same feeding schedule as the DB-OG & FireStarter. 


























_*^^ "P#1" (sativa dom & my keeper)
*_




















_*^^ "P#2" (Indica dom)*_


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## colocowboy (Nov 23, 2011)

Man, loads of dankity-dank-dank up in here. Kicked my morning off to a good start thanks mellow and munkie!


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## cmt1984 (Nov 23, 2011)

chopped down gorilla grape a couple days ago, here she is before i cut her down.


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## colocowboy (Nov 23, 2011)

Damn, I just drooled!
Really nice man!


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## mellokitty (Nov 23, 2011)

*You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to THESkunkMunkie again.*

*You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cmt1984 again.*


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## konagirl420 (Nov 23, 2011)

Sooooooooo Yummy!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 24, 2011)

That gorilla grape gets more & more sexy everytime you show her CMT.


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## konagirl420 (Nov 24, 2011)

Yay yummy!!!!


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## NUTBUSH47 (Nov 27, 2011)

Guys...is it possible to go start with straight 12/12 lighting to get seeds?


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 27, 2011)

NUTBUSH47 said:


> Guys...is it possible to go start with straight 12/12 lighting to get seeds?


Yes but you wont have the biggest of plants, worth doin for a quick grow though...

Edit: lol I didn't realise your growing them for the seeds?? That I'm not sure about tbh mate.


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## cmt1984 (Nov 27, 2011)

people go 12/12 from seed a lot....if you're not worried about yield, then i say go for it.


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## colocowboy (Nov 27, 2011)

look for the 12/12 from seed thread around here, there's plenty of peeps getting a good yield and high quality doing just that.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 27, 2011)

But he's talking about a seed run...from 12/12.


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## colocowboy (Nov 27, 2011)

Right, the hormones and potential that goes into good bud goes into good seed if pollinated! It's not common sense but it's also wont be sensimilla lol 
Don't forget to treat her well throughout, just like you would and she will produce.... right?! It's not like they grow a different kind of bud if you don't veg them!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 27, 2011)

Makes sense. I just have zero experience with that and didn't want to say "Yeah! That'll work" without having a least a clue! LOL


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## colocowboy (Nov 27, 2011)

Understood! I was dropping the assurance, it will for sure work in terms of sheer mechanics. I made seed just like that before, that was a long time ago but the little girl made 23 seeds and never got more than a foot tall.


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## Bluejeans (Nov 27, 2011)

That's awesome! I've done fem seeds and clones only for my beginning experiences, but I am about ready to play with the real seeds after this run is done. Good to know a "12/12 from seed" seed run is possible. I was wanting to do a seed run some day.


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 27, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> people go 12/12 from seed a lot....if you're not worried about yield, then i say go for it.


I pulled nearly 2 ounces off an Agent Orange before running 12/12 from seed. Was amazed. Think it took about 12 weeks total from start to finish.


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> That's awesome! I've done fem seeds and clones only for my beginning experiences, but I am about ready to play with the real seeds after this run is done. Good to know a "12/12 from seed" seed run is possible. I was wanting to do a seed run some day.


Just run more plants than usual and keep em packed close together to get the biggest yield possible and do not top them.


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## NUTBUSH47 (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks guys. I'm gonna try and pollinate one branch with a make up brush.


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## karmas a bitch (Nov 27, 2011)

The whole reason u let plants go 50ish days before u flower them is because then are mature. That way u get peak resin and yield potential. So that bring said it is totally possible to do a 12/12 from seed seed run. But u won't be able to make a true selection as to which female is your best because she won't be performing up to her peak.


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## colocowboy (Nov 27, 2011)

It doesn't sound like it is an objective breeding. Your exactly right though the idea of selective pressure is selection lol


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## Bluejeans (Nov 28, 2011)

It really seems to come down to what you want out of your seed run. If you are looking to produce high quality stable crosses for breeding purposes, then using 12/12 for seeds is really not a good idea (i.e. BAD idea). But if you just want to beef up your personal seed coffers with shit you can pop and grow, then a 12/12 seed run would be sufficient.

I want seeds for experiments. For the good stuff for my head, I'll trust the breeders and the folks here and grow things out properly. For seeds to see what happens if you do X, I collect bag seeds and may consider a 12/12 seed run for the hell of it... mostly just to say I've done it. I personally love growing weed because of all the variety of things you can do and still end up with smokable produce!

Think about it... It's a phenomenal plant!

LST, Topping, Supercropping, big pots, small pots, hydro, soil, soilless, air, MH/HPS, HID, CFL, these nutes, those nutes, no nutes, and the list goes on and on.


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## konagirl420 (Nov 28, 2011)

Amen my adopted grandma!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## colocowboy (Nov 28, 2011)

I did it as a late summer windowsill experiment with bagseeds when I was like 20 or so. The experiment was more of the natural 12/12 idea but when a male and 3 females came up and only grew one good bud I laughed to my self and let the little boy do his bidness.... hahahahah


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 28, 2011)

Wut up my RIU fam! I'm stuck in VEG lock right now! every plant i have is in veg because 3/4 strains i have are new! I have one small grape god im waiting to finish in a week or so and I'm storming my grow room with cleaning supplies! Time to step my game up!


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## Bluejeans (Nov 28, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Wut up my RIU fam! I'm stuck in VEG lock right now! every plant i have is in veg because 3/4 strains i have are new! I have one small grape god im waiting to finish in a week or so and I'm storming my grow room with cleaning supplies! Time to step my game up!


Hey there! Long time no see!!! Got any new pics of the grape god?


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 28, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Hey there! Long time no see!!! Got any new pics of the grape god?


Hey! Ill snap a few when i get home... so whats on the "grow" menu for bluejeans? grabbed anything from the zon yet?


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## NUTBUSH47 (Nov 28, 2011)

Cowboy!!! I do have to say that your avatar is rather troubling. Not like bouncing boobs.


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## smokeymcpotz (Nov 28, 2011)

Im so blazed i had to edit that last msg like 3 times lol


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## Bluejeans (Nov 28, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Ill snap a few when i get home... so whats on the "grow" menu for bluejeans? grabbed anything from the zon yet?


Nope, haven't grabbed anything yet, but I have my eye on a few things there. Just waiting to have enough $$$ to put together a decent order so Mr. C doesn't have to jump thru hoops for a single packet of seeds. I *really, really* want Bourbon Street (Leprechaun Seeds).

For now, check my journal (link in the sig). I got Red Cherry Berry, Kaya Gold and Northern Lights Blue going in the grow room right now. I have a Vanilla Kush in there too, but I'm not speaking to it right now. I'm pissy. LOL


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## Bluejeans (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm thinking...

My next run may consist of FlashBack #2 (Sweet Seeds), Hypnotic (G13 Labs), and Amnesia (WoS).

_Look Munkie!!! No Barney's Farm..._


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## konagirl420 (Nov 28, 2011)

Hehehehe very nice


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 28, 2011)

Sweet seeds have some decent gear. and for the price of them they're a good choice for fems on a budget. I've done BlackJack and that was suprisingly strong after a weeks cure. 1 plant did hermie on me though but I think that was down to a small light leak coming out from my veg closet, back when I set up in my new spot late 2010 before I ironed the room kinks out properly.
Good to see your not throwing more money away to Barneys too BlueJ .


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## Bluejeans (Nov 28, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Sweet seeds have some decent gear. and for the price of them they're a good choice for fems on a budget. I've done BlackJack and that was suprisingly strong after a weeks cure. 1 plant did hermie on me though but I think that was down to a small light leak coming out from my veg closet, back when I set up in my new spot late 2010 before I ironed the room kinks out properly.
> Good to see your not throwing more money away to Barneys too BlueJ .


I just loved the write-up on the Flash Back #2 (Flo x WW). I do still have some BF seeds (Pineapple Chunk and 8-Ball Kush) but I get where you're coming from now and my actual next purchase will be from the Zon and will contain true fire!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 28, 2011)

Their SAD ~ "Sweet Afghan Delicious" comes highly praised. I always nearly end up picking them up too, but lately I've found others that have caught my attention much more. Azure Haze from DJ short for instance is calling to me big time lol


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## Bluejeans (Nov 28, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Their SAD ~ "Sweet Afghan Delicious" comes highly praised. I always nearly end up picking them up too, but lately I've found others that have caught my attention much more. Azure Haze from DJ short for instance is calling to me big time lol


The ONE I cannot get out of my head is Bourbon Street. That just calls to me over and over. The name is not terribly appealing, but the picture stabs right into some receptor in my brain that will not let go. And following the grow journal on the Zon has not done anything to alleviate that need


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 28, 2011)

In that case ~ Go for it .

The breeder that does the strain is launching a promo competion on CZ for Xmas. 



> Christmas is just around the corner and *Leprechaun Seeds Co *are already getting into the festive spirit. One of their lucky customers is going to be in for quite a treat. LSC are offering $500 to the person who enters the best grow video, so if you are growing anything by LSC you better reach for the video camera and show off those buds. You can upload your videos to youtube and link us to your channel or you can send your videos to Cannazon and we will host them for you


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 29, 2011)

*"FireStarter"* - _@ Day #90 (total)_

*"P#1"* ~ This girl is a real beast of a feeder and is loving & taking up all I'm giving her too...
I'll just let the pic's do the bulk of the talking, she's a real looker!!

_*Nutes/levels for flower ~ "P#1" :
Week#6 *~ A+B, C'Boost, PK13/14, "Cal", C'zym ~ *E.C-1.8, ph-5.8/6.1*_














































_*^^ "P#1" @ Flower Day #40*_

*"P#2"* ~ The lower portion is a lil' yellowed up due to the plain water flushing I've been giving the last few weeks and the low ph in the run off is causing a few problems there too. But the upper half is still coming along all great and green. I'm finding this one a hell of a light feeder and over the rest of the cycle with these I'll be feeding very lightly and also very gently too, makin sure to flush through every 4 waterings now. Once I dial her in though the 2nd run with her clones will go much smoother.









































_*^^ "P#2" @ Flower Day #21*_

Thanx for looking, I'll have more pic's soon...


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## Bluejeans (Nov 29, 2011)

Beatiful as always!


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## colocowboy (Nov 29, 2011)

Couldn't have said it better!


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## at0ms0ft (Nov 29, 2011)

Those are looking fantastic. My Harlequin in Veg is being a picky bitch with nutes i have to dilute my mix down so much for her. Makes it a pain when all the rest love it and soak it up fine but there is always one that doesn't want to be like the rest LOL.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanx for the love guys 



at0ms0ft said:


> Those are looking fantastic. My Harlequin in Veg is being a picky bitch with nutes i have to dilute my mix down so much for her. Makes it a pain when all the rest love it and soak it up fine but there is always one that doesn't want to be like the rest LOL.


Shes a picky bitch lol but, we come across these kinda girls sometimes mate. Just gotta take the rough with the smooth in this game.


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## at0ms0ft (Nov 29, 2011)

O yeah and the Harlequin is the strain my wife wants the most (she loves sativa and is excited for High CBD). So I am keeping her around as a MAMA plant. The 3 Jedi I sprouted are growing great!! Luckily I didn't keep them at my friends long his setup is riddled with problems motivated me to hurry up the fabrication on my new setup. How are your Leia OG coming along?


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 30, 2011)

Leias are coming on nicely now will be goin into flower very soon too. 

For a higher CBD content indicas & indi dom strains are better suited mate .


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## at0ms0ft (Nov 30, 2011)

I know but this Harlequin is something special it is part of ProjectCBD. A few clubs in California are participating in it. Harlequin is clone only has been tested at 6-9% CBD. Got the clone from Elemental Wellness. There is a list of strains and places that are in ProjectCBD just hit the linkhttp://www.projectcbd.com


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 30, 2011)

at0ms0ft said:


> I know but this Harlequin is something special it is part of ProjectCBD. A few clubs in California are participating in it. Harlequin is clone only has been tested at 6-9% CBD. Got the clone from Elemental Wellness. There is a list of strains and places that are in ProjectCBD just hit the linkhttp://www.projectcbd.com


I was reading about that, the "CBD crew" Shantibaba, Jorge Cerevantes, and Simon from Resin Seeds are working together to build CBD dom strains for the med community. Cannatonic from Resin Seeds is supposed to be very high in CBD too.


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Nov 30, 2011)

If I could get a pack of any three current sold strains Leia would be on that list. Probably that and Bodhis Elf Snack, maybe Moscas C99BX. Damn tho Skunk you run some Dank strains. Been makin me jealous for a while now. =)


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## cmt1984 (Nov 30, 2011)

got a couple plushberry shots...and some ground up gorilla grape.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Nov 30, 2011)

BatMaN SKuNK said:


> If I could get a pack of any three current sold strains Leia would be on that list. Probably that and Bodhis Elf Snack, maybe Moscas C99BX. Damn tho Skunk you run some Dank strains. Been makin me jealous for a while now. =)


Gotta love the dank my brother, I once grew out a few Nirvana strains lol never again I mean where was the potencey lol. But since then I now research into breeders and try to go for strains on the fire side of things only now. That are made by people who put love & heart into their work for the love of marijuana and to carry on the flames. Those kinda seeds give back true potencey for us the smoker, big commercial seed co's do things on mass scale and the quality dwindles, but the smaller breeders are putting in the heart and the quality shines through in the end product.
Bodhi gear is also on my radar for how he works his plants, and you grow an envious amount of dankage yourself too fella, your work always shines 

And damn CMT, your makin me blush for tha Plush with those shots mate.


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## at0ms0ft (Nov 30, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> I was reading about that, the "CBD crew" Shantibaba, Jorge Cerevantes, and Simon from Resin Seeds are working together to build CBD dom strains for the med community. Cannatonic from Resin Seeds is supposed to be very high in CBD too.


On the projectCBD website is has a whole write up on the cannatonic. Some lady grew the one that had high CBD like 12%!! Out of 11 seeds 1 had the high CBD. It was the only one that turned purple. She fed it nothing just grew it in Soil and Spring water. She also didn't take any clones from it but they are going to plant a bunch more seeds and see if they can get more of the high CBD to show. Glad I was able to get that clone of Harlequin. I am hoping to run into the owner of the mother for Harlequin at the grow meetings they have at Elemental. They said he shows up from time to time.

http://www.projectcbd.com


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## chef c (Dec 1, 2011)

here for the dbog report but heres something that i found interusting... a rare creature called a resin starfish, although they seem to be popping up around here more and more.... I found it on my pink lady (plushberry now). sick journal you have here munkie.

bong rip and......  woah..

look at all of her feet 

with the light on...

and then something I found cool, the resin is what is pink on this plant, not the calyx 

and the money shot....

since its porn c'mon awww !!!! nooo hahaha as jay would say "BONG" !View attachment 1913424


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## chef c (Dec 1, 2011)

holy shit its 244a here, my girl prob thinks i AM looking at porn haha


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## Crash666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Great pics Chef, the macro shots are awesome. I always like seeing what other CO med patients are up to.


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## Bluejeans (Dec 1, 2011)

Chef, those are some gorgeous pics! I love the macro shots. I wish I had a camera (or talent) to do that!


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## colocowboy (Dec 1, 2011)

You and me both bluejeans!


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## chef c (Dec 1, 2011)

Thanks y'all


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## smokeymcpotz (Dec 1, 2011)

Some fresh cut grape god and some durban poison i jus grabd!>>>>


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## Tuco420 (Dec 1, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Think about it... It's a phenomenal plant!
> 
> LST, Topping, Supercropping, big pots, small pots, hydro, soil, soilless, air, MH/HPS, HID, CFL, these nutes, those nutes, no nutes, and the list goes on and on.


 
I LOVE THAT!!!
Well put, i couldn't of said it better myself!


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## Tuco420 (Dec 2, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Some fresh cut grape god and some durban poison i jus grabd!
> 
> Who's beans are the Grape God, what breeder or seed company are they from ???


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## cmt1984 (Dec 2, 2011)

next generation

http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/next-generation-grapegod/prod_1689.html


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## greengenez (Dec 2, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> next generation
> 
> http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/next-generation-grapegod/prod_1689.html


what range is the potency on that? 
I've been searching for a Grape, but only have room for 1 mother, so I want the best in flavor, and potency.


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## cmt1984 (Dec 2, 2011)

is yield a concern for you? if i were goin for grape flavor and potency i would go with Querkle....the only problem with it is its a medium to low yielder.

i grew grape god from 1 bean, it was powerful smoke for sure but ive had better. the pheno i had smelled and tasted like oranges.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 2, 2011)

Grape Stomper's strong, but it hits like a satty with no couch lock effect. Great goin out social weed with a sweet/sourish grape candy flavour too, yeilds can also get massive once you dial her in. Check out my GS dom Stomper OG aka my fav girl "Daisy". This clone had 14 days veg once rooted and then was put into flower and trained out with each branch staked & stretched. Pulled me 4.5 oz dried & cured and pictured here she was cut early too, My cuz is now pulling 5 oz's dry from each clone he runs too, shes my production girl this one . And has sweet/sour grape candy tastes and a head buzzin effect to match. Smells just like she tastes too. My first Gage Green strain and it was love at first sight lol
















^^ "Daisy cut" @ Day#62

CMT mate you've got me wanting some Gorrila Grape so bad from your pic's fella, I'm now lookin at sourcing some asap.


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## colocowboy (Dec 2, 2011)

I still want to kick my self in the balls for not snagging some of the SG last time they were available.....
Nice, very nice that one!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 2, 2011)

A few more "Daisy" shots for you to enjoy ...


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## smokeymcpotz (Dec 2, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> is yield a concern for you? if i were goin for grape flavor and potency i would go with Querkle....the only problem with it is its a medium to low yielder.
> 
> i grew grape god from 1 bean, it was powerful smoke for sure but ive had better. the pheno i had smelled and tasted like oranges.


Yup because if u want smoke more potent than the GG ull have to take a loss on yield IMO... all the kushs and purps ive grown that are super dank have 1/2 to 1/3 the yeild but thats jus my exp.


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## greengenez (Dec 2, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> is yield a concern for you? if i were goin for grape flavor and potency i would go with Querkle....the only problem with it is its a medium to low yielder.
> 
> i grew grape god from 1 bean, it was powerful smoke for sure but ive had better. the pheno i had smelled and tasted like oranges.


Not saying it's a huge concern, but a zip of fluff would def. be a kick in the balls. Two zips of heaven of would satisfy me.


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## greengenez (Dec 2, 2011)

Grape stomper is what I was after, but by the time it comes back in stock and the loot comes around again, it's gone.
I've never stopped by the gage green site, to see whats goin down over there.


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## at0ms0ft (Dec 2, 2011)

Ms. Daisy is a beauty!! Been hearing nothing but good stuff about Gage Green. Just waiting for that Oaklad Raider Kush have that be my first beans from them.


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## Bluejeans (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi guys! Thought I'd stop by and drop in a pic of my little "Alice 2"... she's my reveg project that Gudkarma helped me get started. I am so proud of her!!! She was cut from her Momma on 10/24. (BTW - she got a new root pot last night)


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 3, 2011)

greengenez said:


> Grape stomper is what I was after, but by the time it comes back in stock and the loot comes around again, it's gone.
> I've never stopped by the gage green site, to see whats goin down over there.


Atm we're documenting the new gear test grows but soon we'll be introducing a Pic competion for GG seed prizes for our forum members. And I know the fellas are doin a lot with the Stomper too, so everybody will get a chance at her soon . 



at0ms0ft said:


> Ms. Daisy is a beauty!! Been hearing nothing but good stuff about Gage Green. Just waiting for that Oaklad Raider Kush have that be my first beans from them.


Raider Kush is lookin to be released after Xmas, once the test grow reports are in. They wont release her if she's not 100% stable though, but she's lookin great so far. 

Next two strains from Gage Green to be released before Xmas are ~ 

*"Burgundy" ~ (Raspberry Bubba X ECSDxNYC-HP13)
"Sun Maiden" ~ (Grape Stomper X ChemD-OG) 

*At both Seedbay & the 'tude


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## greengenez (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm about half way through growing out the dope by greenthumb, and these have to be the sweetest smelling strain I ever grew. It smells like tropical punch concentrate. A quick wiff goes straight to the back of your tongue and you can almost taste it. Thinkin' this may round out my sweet category.

Right around day 32


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## greengenez (Dec 3, 2011)

Here's a shot of g-13 labs pineapple express. (really great smoke and plant)


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## Bluejeans (Dec 4, 2011)

greengenez said:


> Here's a shot of g-13 labs pineapple express. (really great smoke and plant)
> View attachment 1917071View attachment 1917072


Nice! I have PE in my inventory. That looks yummy! I decided I went a little too large for my first time. I have 8 plants in flower and 2 in the "nursery" -- a suffering VK and a reveg that I'm not done vegging. Therefore my next grow is going to be 3-4 plants (If I can contain myself from popping seeds) so I'm watching pics and reading reports to decide what's next...


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## greengenez (Dec 4, 2011)

If you like potent pineapple express is a solid 8/8.5


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 4, 2011)

I just popped mine not that long ago short sticky fatty indica leaf bitch she stinks already too.


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 4, 2011)

What exactly was that strain u postEd munki was it Gs x og and a Gs dominant pheno?? Or what a lil confused on that one


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 4, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> What exactly was that strain u postEd munki was it Gs x og and a Gs dominant pheno?? Or what a lil confused on that one


"Daisy" she is a Grape Stomper OG ~ (Grape Stomper X Underdawg OGK) and is a GS dom' pheno', from Gage Green. Big yeilder and a hit to match, not a rare find either as these are pretty common in the cross. GS seems to shine through in a lot of her X's too from what I've seen. And the GG fellas are saying the same too.


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## colocowboy (Dec 4, 2011)

I don't suppose you know if they are going to continue to drop GS as an IBL


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 4, 2011)

Hehe that's what I wanna know I want as close to original as possible


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## gudkarma (Dec 4, 2011)

little shuckin & jivin


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## Bluejeans (Dec 5, 2011)

greengenez said:


> If you like potent pineapple express is a solid 8/8.5





Kaptain Kron said:


> I just popped mine not that long ago short sticky fatty indica leaf bitch she stinks already too.


Okay awesome! That's the stuff I need to hear!



gudkarma said:


> little shuckin & jivin


Awesome pics...yummy... and I love new avi - LOL


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## chef c (Dec 5, 2011)

were going to tahoe!
View attachment 1921923
one of two beans from attitude. pick and mix. pretty good eh


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 6, 2011)

The GG fellas are workin the GS into as solid rep to the clone as they can and an IBL is deffo on the cards, they want it perfect before release though so be paitent. It's why they've discontinued the Purple Snowman too as it didn't throw out the GS dom phenos and was by their standards disappointing. The last 3 packs available went to the tude they sold them on to random people who asked about GG gear via email. Keyplay didn't want them goin in an auction for a crazy price and thought that was the best & fairest way to deal with it all.
But more Bx will be goin into production soon, they've just been busy with the new lines and will be filling the high demand for more Grape Stomper as soon as possible. They work on a small scale with only a few plants at a time for seeds to keep the quality as pure as they can get. And have loads of different projects goin on in the GG lab atm too. Rigorous testing goes before release too, so thats why things take time for their restocks and releases to drop .
They're just starting out proper and once they have things built up more, there will be more stock available and it will be more accessable too. GG are in talks atm with new vendors and will be working with the best in the biz too


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## cmt1984 (Dec 6, 2011)

sweet, thanks for the info skunk.

that shows a lot about those GG dudes...they could have made a shitload of cash by puttin those snowman in auction...stand up guys i say.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 6, 2011)

cmt1984 said:


> sweet, thanks for the info skunk.
> 
> that shows a lot about those GG dudes...they could have made a shitload of cash by puttin those snowman in auction...stand up guys i say.


Thats why I offered to help them with modding their forum mate. They are quality people and are out to make a change in this scene imo. And 100% they stand by their gear too, I've been chatting in depth with both Keyplay & M4k since march now and both these guys are stand up in their intentions I can say that much mate. Get yourself over there more and show off some of your work


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## greengenez (Dec 6, 2011)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> The GG fellas are workin the GS into as solid rep to the clone as they can and an IBL is deffo on the cards, they want it perfect before release though so be paitent. It's why they've discontinued the Purple Snowman too as it didn't throw out the GS dom phenos and was by their standards disappointing. The last 3 packs available went to the tude they sold them on to random people who asked about GG gear via email. Keyplay didn't want them goin in an auction for a crazy price and thought that was the best & fairest way to deal with it all.
> But more Bx will be goin into production soon, they've just been busy with the new lines and will be filling the high demand for more Grape Stomper as soon as possible. They work on a small scale with only a few plants at a time for seeds to keep the quality as pure as they can get. And have loads of different projects goin on in the GG lab atm too. Rigorous testing goes before release too, so thats why things take time for their restocks and releases to drop .
> They're just starting out proper and once they have things built up more, there will be more stock available and it will be more accessable too. GG are in talks atm with new vendors and will be working with the best in the biz too


Thanks skunk, it's good to know they're not just throwing it out there, like some of these mugz I waisted my money on. It's gotten so bad I wont do the pick-n-mix at the tude anymore. Some of these guys a whole pack wont get ya what you're looking for.


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## colocowboy (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks so much for the info munkie! It's unfortunate that other companies don't break it down proper. Pollen chuckin' fools, that's what you see everywhere. Years of careful selection is the only way to stabilize a strain. All f1 and fems is what it seems you can find and of course that's what people want.... lol why there is a demand for the lowest possible denomination of breeding technique is beyond me. Why are there so many phenos per pack?! Look at the parentage, its a long ass love train of f1 crazyness!! Most of which get to f2 and are fucked beyond recognition showing all the phenos in the lineage. I think some do that on purpose really, to protect their crosses. 
They do seem to be interesting in helping the medical community and being solid reliable breeders. Good enough for me, looking forward to trying some of their gear soon.


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## Bluejeans (Dec 6, 2011)

Hey guys, can I ask a "general info" question?

There's a grower here that I buy from occasionally (at least until I get my first real harvest in) and I've noticed the last few things I've gotten from him contain tiny little "preseeds" almost uniformly throughout. I know that he occasionally does seed runs, but he usually does those out in a separate building so I don't think there's a cross pollination problem. I'm just curious if something else would case these little seeds to be throughout the bud and what the effect is.

My first thought (aside from a rogue male or hermie) was that maybe if left too long before harvest? Will a plant just "go to seed?" I'm just curious and y'all are the smartest bunch I know regarding seeds and seed creation so I thought I'd check here.


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## Tuco420 (Dec 7, 2011)

Bluejeans said:


> Hey guys, can I ask a "general info" question?
> 
> There's a grower here that I buy from occasionally (at least until I get my first real harvest in) and I've noticed the last few things I've gotten from him contain tiny little "preseeds" almost uniformly throughout. I know that he occasionally does seed runs, but he usually does those out in a separate building so I don't think there's a cross pollination problem. I'm just curious if something else would case these little seeds to be throughout the bud and what the effect is.
> 
> My first thought (aside from a rogue male or hermie) was that maybe if left too long before harvest? Will a plant just "go to seed?" I'm just curious and y'all are the smartest bunch I know regarding seeds and seed creation so I thought I'd check here.


 
Yeah that's a very good question. I just had that happen to my prize Querkle pheno n had to let her go bye bye cuz i don't keep mothers (i don't have the room), i just take clones as i put em in to flower. I've been growing her for well over a year now, about 6 or 7 runs anyway. She's always been really stable n i never saw any bannas or pollan sacks but she had little premature seeds uniformly forming in all the tops of the main buds.


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## Bluejeans (Dec 7, 2011)

Hmmm...okay, then...just age maybe? I dunno, I was just curious. His weed is good and I respect his grow, just never seen those so completely before. I've found one or two, but never dozens. Didn't stop me from smoking it and getting blazed. 

Thanks for the answer.


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## colocowboy (Dec 8, 2011)

Two causes I have seen are 1. as you mentioned they will in fact "go to seed" late in the season with pre-seed anticipating pollination it happens I have seen it and it is a degenerative trait (field hemp). The second is that an accident occurs where you have pollen on your clothes in quantity and forget to change between rooms. Total saturation of pollen to the flower will cause the seed to develop very, very slowly sometimes the the mother doesn't have the resources to grow out all the seed that has been established so you have this fully pollinated flower that can't develop the vast quantity of seed before maturation. The first is breeder err for not thoroughly testing the progeny of fathers, the second is grower error for trying to be a breeder  hahahahahhah
It is not cool what corners are cut in the breeding process. It's worse than muddling the genetic pool, it's using degenerative fathers that past f1 express the entire gene pool making selection 100 times more important but who has room to do a 2 sigma selection for desired traits!? Statistically you shouldn't select from a population less than 120 individuals for these parents. Those who can still don't, so it is entirely probable that these sorts of regressions are occurring..... just saying!


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## Bluejeans (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm thinking that, given your answer, he perhaps allowed the plant to go too long. I noticed a couple in his grow room the last time I was in there that looked to me like they should have been harvested a week or so before. He has talked about doing some breeding, but I think he's too smart a grower to be so careless as to visit the males out in the storage shed and then come into the grow room in the house. He does an occasional personal seed run so I guess mistakes can happen. 

I have seen one or two small little white seedlets before, but in a single bud of this recent stuff from him, I found closer to 30...and they seemed to be throughout the entire bag so I think it is bad genetics combined with #1 above. Unless I'm mistaken though, he's growing from seeds he purchased rather than from those he made himself. This was White Widow but I have no idea from where. 

Since I started growing for myself, he is only a stop-gap until I get my own harvest in and the next one going. He sells me eights of dank for $30. Around here most everybody else wants $50-$60.

I hear what you're saying about the dying art of true selective breeding. I see people all the time saying "I'm gonna cross this with that"... and then they think they are breeders.

Thanks again for the response...it all goes into the Bluejeans knowledge base in my head...LOL


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## colocowboy (Dec 9, 2011)

It's easier than you think, the pollen can survive many days. Scenario, you wear a smock in your garden and it has been days in between. A stoner is, as a stoner does! lol 
Don't be so sure those whom are supposed to be "professional" are not different than the pollen chuckers anywhere, the corners are cut for a reason. Just saying, it surprises me when I hear some of the "professionals" techniques. It's no wonder strains turn out like they do. Degenerating to field hemp is all because of the male selection, leave it to the fellas to spoil all the fun! hahahhah
At the end of the day shit happens, sounds like he is cool anyway and as always a friend with weed is a friend indeed. 
Your nice to talk to, I am not trying to prove anything just friendly knowledge. A lot of folks around here just a drippin' with piss and vinegar lol


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 9, 2011)

"Double Barrel OG" - @ _Day #99 (total)_.






_*^^ Duo shot ~ "P#4" (front) & "P#1" (back)*_

*Nutes/levels for flower:
Week#6*_ ~ Coco A+B, C.Boost, PK13/14, Mono "Cal", C'zym ~ *E.C-1.8, ph-5.8/6.1
Week#7* ~ Coco A+B, C.Boost, Mono "Cal" & "Mag", C'zym ~ *E.C-1.6, ph-5.8/6.1
Week#8* ~ "Plain water" ~ *ph - 5.8/6.0*_

"P#1" is in flush and nearing harvest now and "P#4" is coming soon after, all in all I'm more than happy with both of these.



















































_*^^ "P#1" ~ @ Flower Day #53*_









































_*^^ "P#4" ~ @ Flower Day #46*_

"FireStarter" - @ _Day #99 (total)_
























































_*^^ "P#1" @ Flower Day #49*_

Firestarter are on the same feeds as the DB-OG's...
Thanx for looking, I'll have more up very soon!!


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## Bluejeans (Dec 9, 2011)

colocowboy said:


> It's easier than you think, the pollen can survive many days. Scenario, you wear a smock in your garden and it has been days in between. A stoner is, as a stoner does! lol
> Don't be so sure those whom are supposed to be "professional" are not different than the pollen chuckers anywhere, the corners are cut for a reason. Just saying, it surprises me when I hear some of the "professionals" techniques. It's no wonder strains turn out like they do. Degenerating to field hemp is all because of the male selection, leave it to the fellas to spoil all the fun! hahahhah
> At the end of the day shit happens, sounds like he is cool anyway and as always a friend with weed is a friend indeed.
> Your nice to talk to, I am not trying to prove anything just friendly knowledge. A lot of folks around here just a drippin' with piss and vinegar lol


No need to apologize. I believe I read this in the vein that it is intended. Nah, the guy is no pro and he doesn't sell seeds, he just makes them for his own use so he can keep growing. I respect that... But, since he's not a pro, he has obviously made mistakes and I was just wondering what the possible scenarios might be to cause the pre-seeds to appear. 

As a new grower myself, I like to take the time to learn from others. At 3-4 months per crop, I ain't gonna live long enough to make all the mistakes myself. I sort of have to start off somewhere in the middle just to be good at it before I die (I'm an old lady, ya know! LOL). But being of the pre-computer generation, I did learn to learn by reading and watching others. When I don't see the answer I need, I have learned where to go ask. I'm trying really hard to make sure that wisdom comes with age and not have age tromping all over me by itself. 

And like you said, as always, a friend with weed is a friend indeed. This guy delivers, fronts me a little when I ask (I don't ask unless I KNOW I can pay very soon), and is an all around straight up guy...but he's small time, grows for his own use (+ 2 patients) and sells what he doesn't need.

Thanks for the response... I learned a little more today


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## colocowboy (Dec 11, 2011)

HOllY CRApOllA! Fire starter indeed!
Fantastic Bud Porn munkie! hardcore!


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## gudkarma (Dec 11, 2011)

smokey clear some mailbox space


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 15, 2011)

"Double Barrel OG" - @ Day #106 (total).
"P#1" ~ taken @ Flower Day #60
Harvest Porn!!, Enjoy...








































































Thanx for looking, I'll have more soon


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## karmas a bitch (Dec 15, 2011)

Damn son. I just looked back through your sun maiden grow. Now this. Keep it up and I'm buying a plane ticket and coming over!! And I just might not leave


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## smokeymcpotz (Dec 15, 2011)

OMG that looks dank bro.... I wish i could rep ya again


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 15, 2011)

karmas a bitch said:


> Damn son. I just looked back through your sun maiden grow. Now this. Keep it up and I'm buying a plane ticket and coming over!! And I just might not leave


Thanx mate, make sure you bring some munchies as you'll need 'em lol.


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 15, 2011)

Hahahahahaha skunky lol. I just started my run of platinum bubba and master kush. The pb clone I'm runnin right now is the mommy of my pb x kk seeds from XyYx genetics so I'm lookin forward to gettin steel for her before runnin the cross.


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 15, 2011)

I couldn't resist I'm fickin high as balls and all it took was one toke of blue dream


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## smokeymcpotz (Dec 15, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I couldn't resist I'm fickin high as balls and all it took was one toke of blue dream


Speaking of blue dream.. i jus got some purple dream beans in! YES!


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## bongmarley2009 (Dec 16, 2011)

All I see is fire in that Double OG! 3 Tahoes have entered week 1 of flower.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm smokin a fresh dried Bud of her atm, real nice smoke... once cured she'll be a smasher!!

Also I've got the Leia OG in flower now too...


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## greengenez (Dec 18, 2011)

Just harvested the first of four, of Greenthumbs the dope. It's some pretty tasty/good smoke. Really sweet (coat your tongue sweet)

Its a pretty nice grow, I'm running one in hydro now, and it seems to be kickin'. 
I'll try and get some pics in here later of some about to come down.

I put a early smoke report in my thread. (link in sig.)


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## NoSwag (Dec 18, 2011)

Omg that double barrel looks so killer.... If i could only get accepted to CZ already and buy some of them badgirls....


+rep for amazingness


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 18, 2011)

Rofl when u try and get in it only took me about four days


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 18, 2011)

It's worth the wait, and you'll be on in no time too.


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## NoSwag (Dec 18, 2011)

Sweet, It's been like 5 days, Its kinda like waiting for christmas lol


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 18, 2011)

Hey skunk sinse you have a nak for hearing stuff from the ggg you know if they will re drop some of there older stomper
Crosses? And whats the scoop on fire og x stomper ?


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 18, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey skunk sinse you have a nak for hearing stuff from the ggg you know if they will re drop some of there older stomper
> Crosses? And whats the scoop on fire og x stomper ?


Stomper OG is due out again soon as is the Bx too, Purple Snowman has been dicontinued now though... The Wifi X stomper OG is currently in testing and is getting logged on the GG site by a very capable grower and will get release if the reports come in positive.
I'm also testing out Grape Stomper X Grape Stomper OG too and that is kickin out GS dom phenos like mad and all being well that will be out in the new year along with the other Stomper X's. I'm a mod at the GG forum and know the fellas quite well now, and after getting to know them much better I've started offering my help in support & backing of their gear even further. I'm working more closely with them now too, and will be doin my best to get this quality out to more people . 
The GS is in high demand but by next year everybody will get the chance to get the stomp goin on


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 18, 2011)

Sweet skunk thanks for the info, il jump on ther forum sometime check it out


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 18, 2011)

I have a few grows goin on there that I don't log here mate, you should deffo stop by.


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## wyteberrywidow (Dec 18, 2011)

Damn I thought I subbed to this.. Well resubbed


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 19, 2011)

I did wonder if you knew or not but your here now fella lol, throw up your pornage too if you want mate.


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## Bluejeans (Dec 19, 2011)

Evening guys....Hey Gud! Remember that little bud you talked me into snipping and cloning? Well look at her now! She's the one on the right. On the left, is my Vanilla Kush that got root rot and nearly died. I chopped her off at the base of the stem and turned her into a clone. She's doing pretty good too for dead plant, eh?


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 21, 2011)

"Double Barrel OG" *- *_@ Day #112 (total)._
"P#4" ~ @ Flower Day #59
















































"FireStarter" _( WiFi X Casey Jones ] _
"P#1" ~ @ Flower Day #59



























Thanx for looking, I'll have more soon...


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 21, 2011)

Looking good skunk, wish i could turn forward time on my firestarters lol


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 21, 2011)

Yea those fire starters look bomb what's with all the tailing on the double barrel though looks like sour d towers.


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 21, 2011)

Bomb ones though


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## itslogics (Dec 21, 2011)

Alright I'm back, I just got a new camera, so I'll post some pics later after the battery charges.

Hey Gud wanna see a blubonic Donkey dick? I'm sure you'd appreciate it.

I Have some great ladies to show you blubonic (2 phenotypes), Sourbubble (2 phenotypes), Powerskunk, and Afgan.

Stay tuned folks


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## itslogics (Dec 21, 2011)

First 5 images are of the sour bubble pheno 1 as I call it, the 5 after that is the grapefruit pheno of the blubonic, 6 pics of the blubonic satellite 2.2 phenotype, 4 pics of the sour bubble phenotype 2, 3 pics after that is my powerskunk and the last 2 is my afgan. Sorry for some of the pics kinda turned out weird and still learning how to use this thing. Not to mention the host I use kinda messed with the photos.










































































































































So you wanna talk about foxtails?


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## Dizzle Frost (Dec 21, 2011)

those are dead sexy!


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## itslogics (Dec 21, 2011)

Thank you sir! I can't wait to chop them, the smell from the blubonic and sour bubble are outrageous!! 

I don't know if you guys ever came across powerskunk but its very very unique smell, and my people sure do love the power.

The afgan has a oil slick/diesel smell to them.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 21, 2011)

killer looking shit man


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## itslogics (Dec 21, 2011)

thank you raizer, I found the two mothers of the blubonic and one of the sour bubble. I'd like to run more of them though just to see what else they have but, but that will be a ways away. I have chernobyl and querkle in veg right now and I'm looking for mothers in those now.


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## gudkarma (Dec 21, 2011)

impressive.

love some good photos.

how much cola is on that blubonic? what's the genetics? that's BOG?

what kinda afghan is that? looks like sweet seeds SAD.

yield looks bomb on the powerskunk. what's the parentage?


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Dec 21, 2011)

love that sour bubble pheno.. nice pics itslogics


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## itslogics (Dec 21, 2011)

Blubonic is from spice of life, steve collaborated with dj short to make the satellite 2.2 and thats in this strain. The male was the satellite 2.2. You can definitely tell in my purple blubonic.

Thats all it is pretty much, on the blubonic grapefruit pheno, one giant cola very few side branches, in a 1.5 gallon pot it grew an 10" dick. 

I just grew these out to find mothers, and this one, and the other one, are both keepers in my book.
That's white labels "Afghan Kush" no auto flowers in this garden 

The sour bubble is bog's gear.

The Powerskunk is Super Skunk x Afghanistan. Kannabia

http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Power_Skunk/Kannabia_Seeds/


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## itslogics (Dec 21, 2011)

Batman if your talking about the prehistoric looking sour bubble, that one isn't gonna yield for shit, but it's super frosty. I might keep that pheno and try again, but yea it sucks, I think I should of trained it better or definitely let it veg longer. I'm on a time constrant on these, so I had to throw them all in flower earlier than I wanted but I'm glad I did with my satellite 2.2 pheno blubonic, that thing got tall.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Dec 22, 2011)

@itslogics, love the pornage mate, glad to see your back around fella and back with a bang too. I love it!!


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## cmt1984 (Dec 23, 2011)

ok...its been a while so here are a few things here. the first set is my "2 plants, 1 pot" project and that consists of 2 different phenos of ggg grape stomper bx. very resinous, and ive never had a sweeter smelling plant before...both phenos pretty much smell the same...the only difference i see in them is one is a bit bigger and stretched out more and the other is squat and tight.





















































next is a tga (dioxide) tester....green queen x querkle. talk about a lovely plant...colorful, full of resin and smells EXACTLY like lilacs...and not to mention big ol' donkey dick colas...


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## wyteberrywidow (Dec 23, 2011)

very nice there cmt i like those alot the grape stompe bx very impressive wih the 2 plant 1 pot nice...The tga tester strain that looks beautiful..Nice shots to add to the dank...


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## wyteberrywidow (Dec 23, 2011)

Here are some shots of my babies Grape stomper og x jo og.. Thread is in my Sig for the test grow log...


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## greengenez (Dec 24, 2011)

Cmt. As always, killin' it. 

Wyte, I'll be dropping in on that for sure.


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## konagirl420 (Dec 24, 2011)

Awesome guys everything looks soooooo yummmy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so glad to have my internet back!!!!!!!! Hehehehehe I have updated my thread too


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## greengenez (Dec 24, 2011)

Thought I'd join in on some pornage. Another of the dope I just pulled down.
View attachment 1952930View attachment 1952931View attachment 1952932
Some really nice smoke.


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## konagirl420 (Dec 24, 2011)

Hahahaha oh man all these dank pics of bud and me with no bud hehehehe, yep gonna take another shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## smokeymcpotz (Dec 24, 2011)

Wow!!! look at the bud up in here! im lovin that 2 plants 1 pot cmt... is that like the cannabis 2 girls 1 cup? lol


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## konagirl420 (Dec 24, 2011)

Hahahahahaha but the pot one has to turn out better hahahhaa!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## laxfiz (Dec 26, 2011)

Thought Id share something to get off too. Dirty Dirty Porn. Its Chernobyl, on Harvest day 64.

View attachment 1956896View attachment 1956897View attachment 1956898View attachment 1956899View attachment 1956900View attachment 1956901View attachment 1956902View attachment 1956903View attachment 1956904View attachment 1956905View attachment 1956906View attachment 1956907View attachment 1956908View attachment 1956909View attachment 1956910View attachment 1956911View attachment 1956912View attachment 1956913View attachment 1956914


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## Bluejeans (Dec 28, 2011)

^ ^ ^ Yummy!


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 28, 2011)

Yummy man how Looks like it coulda gone a bit longer. Unless you weren't goin for amber in which case PERFECT. I wanna smoke some o that l love Chernobyl


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## laxfiz (Dec 28, 2011)

I would of taken her probably, a week longer normally. (there is 5-10% amber on some of the trics) problem is, im moving, so i didnt take clones. already have 3 keepers.

My plan, since she turned out so fantastic, harvest on the early side, make sure she revegges nicely(and harvest around a P next winter  ). I dont want to lose this baby. She started producing mad trics around week 3.

and ive also heard Chernobyl is best smoked picked on the early side.

(also, i harvested only about 1/3 top of plant, going to let the bottom ripen up some more)


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## laxfiz (Dec 28, 2011)

smokeymcpotz said:


> Wow!!! look at the bud up in here! im lovin that 2 plants 1 pot cmt... is that like the cannabis 2 girls 1 cup? lol


thats gross man. really gross.


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## Kaptain Kron (Dec 28, 2011)

Rofl hahahahaha


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## Bluejeans (Dec 28, 2011)




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## itslogics (Dec 28, 2011)

Im pretty excited, just was gifted, Dr, Funkenstein (Katsu cut Bubba Kush x Blueberry) and Polio (which I know nothing about). I guess I was to baked to remember to ask what polio was.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Dec 28, 2011)

amazing bud porn in this thread


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## konagirl420 (Dec 30, 2011)

Awwwwwwwww I donm't have any bud porn yet, but I do have a new update on my thread


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## Crash666 (Dec 31, 2011)

Querkle, Vortex and Sour OG View attachment 1965951View attachment 1965953View attachment 1965955View attachment 1965956View attachment 1965959View attachment 1965950


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## Bluejeans (Dec 31, 2011)

Crash666 said:


> Querkle, Vortex and Sour OG View attachment 1965951View attachment 1965953View attachment 1965955View attachment 1965956View attachment 1965959View attachment 1965950


Very nice!


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## gudkarma (Jan 1, 2012)

double white


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## konagirl420 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yay love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ThANks sooo pretty and looks yummy!!!!!!


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## Bluejeans (Jan 2, 2012)

A bit more pornage...


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## Crash666 (Jan 2, 2012)

Nice work Blue Jeans. Lookin' good.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 2, 2012)

BlueJ your a natural herbalist sista, those pic's look so professional. 

Great work everybody, this threads getting more epic with every set of new pic's added. Keep 'em coming!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 2, 2012)

From my test grows for Gage here's* "Mendo Supremo"* *~ (Mendo Queen X Grande Supreme)* this one's due for release later this month and I will be doin a smoke report for this beast soon!!
Below is a quick looksie at *Grape Stomper X Grape Stomper OG* @ 10 Days into flower!! These I'm testing now and they're looking solid with Grape Stomper Dom phenos galore. Full on sweet grape candy smells!! Gorgeous aromas and one of many reasons I'm simply in love with Gage Green gear


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 2, 2012)

Awsome skunk my lemon stompers are above ground and my sun mainden just came in the mail, also got
Burg and LA Haze coming from cz  i put in for ggg tester


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## cmt1984 (Jan 2, 2012)

lmao, only 10 days into flower?!? look at all that resin already!


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## Kaptain Kron (Jan 2, 2012)

dont ya just love it when a twacked out cholo steals your phone on new years day.... fuck public transportation.....


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## gudkarma (Jan 2, 2012)

that grape stmpr x grape stmpr og looks very interesting.

here's gnarly beaster


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## gudkarma (Jan 2, 2012)

few more : nl x bb canopy & e$ko's lavander haze (soma's lavander x amnesia haze)


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 2, 2012)

looking nice thier gud.Those nl x bb looks crazy,,,


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## konagirl420 (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow yes it is a Happy New Year, everything looks sooooo yummy !!!!!!! Glad you did not get hurt Kaptain  Blue Jeans wow go Grandma!!!!!!!!!! hehehehehe great start !!!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 2, 2012)

cmt1984 said:


> lmao, only 10 days into flower?!? look at all that resin already!


I start day count on first proper pistells sprouting from the tops mate, she packs on early and just keeps on giving. Wait till you see her now, fan leaflets are crusted!!, I'm gonna get my ass in gear laters and put the full test log up here and on CZ too. 

GK thats a gnarly nugalicious monster there, I'm hypnotised by the beuity of her, whats the strain?? Or will you continue to tease me mate,


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## gudkarma (Jan 3, 2012)

a little something you should remember munkie : great white shark 

double white : white widow x great white shark

both parents selected around the year 1999-2000 when those were tearing up the scene.

http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Double_White/Sweet_Seeds/

pretty good rating for inexpensive beans.

yum!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 3, 2012)

Swimming with Shark, oh the memories. Sweet Seeds have some decent gear, at the price they're a better bet than GHSC or Barneys anyday.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 5, 2012)

*Gage Green are in need of skilled growers for testing even more new gear, anybody serious about this and can run all 12 of the test seeds at once and log complete grows. Contact me ASAP!!
If you've got Green fingers and show what you grow, get on this now!!.

If you don't know me here in this thread that doesn't stop you sending me a PM either, grow journalers get at me if you want in too 




.*


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 5, 2012)

I cant wait for my testers to show up


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 5, 2012)

Sounds like you are in for some fun hr.. Those genetics u r getting should be some serious stuff.. I know one thing I'm impressed with the crosses.. Nowadays u have to breed something dank to catch eyes and that what's happening.. My tents will be filled with ggg stuff that's for sure..


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 5, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Sounds like you are in for some fun hr.. Those genetics u r getting should be some serious stuff.. I know one thing I'm impressed with the crosses.. Nowadays u have to breed something dank to catch eyes and that what's happening.. My tents will be filled with ggg stuff that's for sure..


I've had gage gear running at mine since stomper og and can 100% say they will be a staple in my garden for many years to come too. They're making new strains from X's others would just put out there but no Gage takes new X's and makes something uber special from both combined. Keyplays a true artist of a breeder and has a real eye & passion for the work he does. And it shows in the strains they're putting out too and reason I've gotton 100% behind them and am working more closely with them now too.


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 5, 2012)

Well I've got my 2 a11 girls picked out. I have clones of five diff males that just got transplanted. I have my eyes on one in particular. It showed super early and it is stinky. Plus he stayed short. I didn't really let him do his thing though as soon as he showed I cloned and killed him. I'm gonna let him do his thing and keep the other males on the back burner in case he isn't what I'm lookin for. I have an eye for females. Never selected a male before. But I'm pretty confident in my selection. 

Ill have nut powder for those doing this with me. And f4s for my peeps. Like flo said the ones who know without askin "is it me". I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.


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## konagirl420 (Jan 6, 2012)

yay started flowering my Afghan tonight


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 6, 2012)

Sounds like you ready to be glued to the couch


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## konagirl420 (Jan 6, 2012)

Yay I hope, hehehehhe I hope !!!!!!!!!


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## Crash666 (Jan 6, 2012)

First one's an Alpha Dawg at day 67 and the next three are Sour OG at day 56


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 7, 2012)

Looking dank my friend.. Is that akg alphadawg?


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## gudkarma (Jan 7, 2012)

*love* those pics crash666.


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## BatMaN SKuNK (Jan 7, 2012)

Crash666 said:


> First one's an Alpha Dawg at day 67... View attachment 1977614


Sweet Chemdawg Pheno. Looks bomb.


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## Bluejeans (Jan 7, 2012)




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## smokeymcpotz (Jan 7, 2012)

BLUEJEANS in the building!!!! Very Nice work!


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## Bluejeans (Jan 7, 2012)

High five man! Where you been? Haven't seen you around. What's green in your crib?


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 7, 2012)

Lookin good bluejeans. Are those the nlXbb?


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## Bluejeans (Jan 7, 2012)

karmas a bitch said:


> Lookin good bluejeans. Are those the nlXbb?


Most of them. A couple of the pics are Kaya Gold.

The second and third pics (small ones) and the last big pic are Kaya Gold. The rest are the nlxbb. I've been really pleased with how easy those nlb's have been!


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## konagirl420 (Jan 7, 2012)

wow wow wow very nice blue jeans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehehe damn girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## konagirl420 (Jan 7, 2012)

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 8, 2012)

Sista Blue I am speachless!! And GK as alawys bro you killin it, are you ready to get your stomp on


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 8, 2012)

Get the stomping in this b***h.


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## konagirl420 (Jan 8, 2012)

hehehheheehe I ordered some Gage green!!!!  but they were out of the stompers


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 8, 2012)

konagirl420 said:


> hehehheheehe I ordered some Gage green!!!!  but they were out of the stompers


There's more to come Kona, from Gage himself "2012 will be the year of the Stomper!!" Everybody is gonna get a shot soon. And she wont disappoint either, Stomper OG is coming round again soon.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 8, 2012)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> There's more to come Kona, from Gage himself "2012 will be the year of the Stomper!!" Everybody is gonna get a shot soon. And she wont disappoint either, Stomper OG is coming round again soon.


Ya hear that guys so load your cards up, swipe that money from mommies purse (lol joking this ain't no elite seed company) . But alot of people will be happy. Alot of dank coming from gage this year..


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 8, 2012)

konagirl420 said:


> hehehheheehe I ordered some Gage green!!!!  but they were out of the stompers


Lemon stomper is out? Well not to worry because shelves will be filled soon


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 8, 2012)

New drop for CZ coming soon too, the first lot sold out instantly (blink and missed it) only 1 remains there atm. More Burgundy & Sun Maiden will be available soon, I got M4k reserving packs just for CZ. The 'tude are not replying atm so they may miss out on more of those 2 tbh. But all the new gear and a full restock is due there soon.


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## konagirl420 (Jan 8, 2012)

Hhehehhehe I ordered Gage Green Seeds Morning Flight!!!!


----------



## konagirl420 (Jan 8, 2012)

and some others!!!! hehehhehhehe!!!


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm surprised the tide with multiple people working are slacking. I know mr c does that all by himself so it's understandable if he is late replying but the tide.. They really need to step up the service


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 8, 2012)

I wanna see those grown out so badly Kona, the Mango Sour D is a one of a kind clone and you are in for some real quality there. Pepe the daddy hasn't made a bad X yet either, I'm looking forwards to hearing how she treats you.


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## konagirl420 (Jan 8, 2012)

hehehehheheehe I can not wait!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I promise you I won't dissapoint you


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 8, 2012)

But h disappointed me already! lol


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## konagirl420 (Jan 8, 2012)

Lmfao!!!!!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 8, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> But h disappointed me already! lol


What you mean mate?? I aim to please 

Kona get yourself over to GG's forum, we need more lady growers to show what they're made of and you are one of the best I know of  >>> https://gagegreen.org/forum/index.php?sid=108af16da4397dbbc7f38c993b547fa8


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 8, 2012)

That's why I rock with u skunk.

Kona go register up. We need more of your kind


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## gudkarma (Jan 8, 2012)

m4k was so excited to see my pics & have me on board the testers were sent out immediately.

they should be here mon/tue ... & in a towel same day.

grape stomper x grape stomper bx


----------



## wyteberrywidow (Jan 8, 2012)

gudkarma said:


> m4k was so excited to see my pics & have me on board the testers were sent out immediately.
> 
> they should be here mon/tue ... & in a towel same day.
> 
> grape stomper x grape stomper bx


A man of your caliber is a great addition to any family.. Especially one with a bunch of good minded people and people who actually know a couple things


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## gudkarma (Jan 8, 2012)

its always great to be around people with experience & skillz & the passion for dank nugz.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 8, 2012)

gudkarma said:


> its always great to be around people with experience & skillz & the passion for dank nugz.


I sang up your praises to the fellas GK, that your a hard to please connoisseur and will give us an upfront no holds barred honest & impartial review. Your pro style sealed the deal for M4k and they're looking forwards to see what you do with her mate. 
I'm glad they listened to my recommendations for you guys here to test, this thread was always gonna be a hunting ground for the task . And you all show & grow which is what testers are required to do anyways, so you may as well be rocking with something fresh & new. And it lets the fellas see how their creations perform out in all different enviros, public testing is what sets these guys apart and only 100% stable lines are put out for sale at any time.
More test grow work and recalls for jobs well done too and we're building up quite the lil' family over on the GG board. We just started off a flower pic comp' with Gage Green seed prize giveaways for the winners.


It's a very Green future!!


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## gudkarma (Jan 8, 2012)

im happy to have such a strong cross. i know its gonna do well. 

hopefully i'll be able to find a winner & make a run hydro.

*

og graze : interesting plant, average yield, unique citrus/musk type odor, ready for chop in about a week : letting it go as it doesn't make the grade

smoke report to follow.

*

i can finally confirm ...herb grown organically has superior taste to hydro nugz of the same strain. 

this is the 3x i've experimented with this idea & now have definite data.

its not that my nugz grown hydro aren't superb ...cause they are in every other way (density, structure, frost, yield, etc) ...but the terpine & flavor profile seems to be significantly enhanced via "organic" methods.

im suprised the difference is noticable... but it is.


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## Bluejeans (Jan 8, 2012)

gudkarma said:


> i can finally confirm ...herb grown organically has superior taste to hydro nugz of the same strain.


Whew...good. I've decided I'm to old and have too many aches and pains to do hydro in my set up. I am required to lift a full res about 26" inches over the lip of the garden tub and that nearly kills me. 

So...coco coir?


----------



## Bluejeans (Jan 8, 2012)

Hey Munkie,

When GGG is ready to see how their stuff functions in the hands of a newbie, I'll happy to help. I'm still learning lots about growing, but I think I'm pretty good at taking pictures


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 8, 2012)

Gud it made soooo happy to see you have seen the light!! Wait till u taste the organic Pepsi challenge!!fire fire fire! 

Im taking my OG graze down next weekend too. Didn't yield shit for me either.


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## greengenez (Jan 8, 2012)

gudkarma said:


> m4k was so excited to see my pics & have me on board the testers were sent out immediately.
> 
> they should be here mon/tue ... & in a towel same day.
> 
> grape stomper x grape stomper bx


You are about to posses my holy grail. 
Can't wait to hear watcha think. I know you hold no bars, when it comes to dank.


----------



## wyteberrywidow (Jan 8, 2012)

Og graze from kos?


----------



## cmt1984 (Jan 8, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Og graze from kos?


eugenics genetics


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah eugenics. It looks good but the yield is laughable. I just put a big plant of her in a five gallon pot that I lolly popped in my flower room to see if she just needs a longer veg time. Either way unless the smoke is outta this world she'll be gone from my rotation. Too much other herb that's top shelf and yields well. That being said I received her as a cut and didn't do the selection. I've seen other grows that look like nice yielders. I do love the profile of this plant and the ease of cloning her.


----------



## smokeymcpotz (Jan 8, 2012)

Damn Im slippin i need to get some gage green in my room!


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## gudkarma (Jan 8, 2012)

karmas a bitch said:


> Gud it made soooo happy to see you have seen the light!! Wait till u taste the organic Pepsi challenge!!fire fire fire!


well im getting ready to throw down another shoreline in a few weeks. i love that plant.

mine will be amended coco. im already wondering what's the heaviest container i can lift down stairs... i wanna do shoreline in a large tuffbox tote filled with coco and scrog it under my 220w t5 (veg) and finish it under a 1000w 

next shoreline i have to go (3 weeks) will have 4 tops.

im working with that girl.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 8, 2012)

Coco grown gives a better flavour than R/w hydro grown Bud too. More depth to the taste and effect is deepened too imo. 
In my humble 7 years of growing I've only ever done hydro though... The low yeild potential in organic always put me off tbh.


----------



## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 8, 2012)




----------



## TheLastWood (Jan 9, 2012)

BlueJeans coco is the shit and I'm sure you will be very happy with it. How come u never in the seedfreaks thread anymore? If u need any help with switching to coco we will get u set up rite.


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## konagirl420 (Jan 9, 2012)

[video=youtube;4m48GqaOz90]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=4m48GqaOz90[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4m48GqaOz90


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## greengenez (Jan 9, 2012)

Chocolate Dope anyone? Lol

Here's a pic of The Dope X Chocolate rain.
View attachment 1983998View attachment 1983999

I crossed a couple things with it.
more pics in my grow thread.

Link in sig.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 9, 2012)

Bluejeans said:


> Whew...good. I've decided I'm to old and have too many aches and pains to do hydro in my set up. I am required to lift a full res about 26" inches over the lip of the garden tub and that nearly kills me.
> 
> So...coco coir?


Hey Blu here is a good ref of coco I posted on another forum.. Check it out it been around for a while but it's the basics to get u started etc. good luck

http://forum.grasscity.com/coco-coir/620656-askeds-coco-guide.html


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 9, 2012)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Coco grown gives a better flavour than R/w hydro grown Bud too. More depth to the taste and effect is deepened too imo.
> In my humble 7 years of growing I've only ever done hydro though... The low yeild potential in organic always put me off tbh.


Low yield potential? I must be doing organics wrong lol. I just can't agree with this. I run amended coco. All organic. And I have ran same clones side by side chemmy vs organic did not notice a difference in yield. But I did notice a massive difference in flavor. Now straight up hydro you will get a faster veg cycle which when poppin cycles makes a difference. I have a super sour skunk right now that I flipped 20 days from seed. Easily a 112 grams most likely much closer to 224 grams. <<<<<<Like how I switched that to the metric system for u skunkie? Lol. Not to mention all my other gear yielding tight. I almost always hit the 2lbs mark per 1k. I don't think I will this run because I was running so many strains doing pheno hunting. But yeah that's my two cents.


----------



## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 9, 2012)

I read it somewhere lol, but your pulling a sweet harvest I see. Thanx for putting me straight mate, I may look into organic growing but tbh I'm pretty stuck in my ways with the hydro now. It works for me and I can't see a point in me changing really. 
It's hydro or soil grown here where I am too fella, smokers don't generally care how its grown as long as it hits their spot. I don't think I ever even had organic grown veg nevermind weed lol.


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 9, 2012)

Haha yeah I here u most people don't seem to care here either. Shit most it seems to me most people want a strong Indy Dom to me. So they can get stony. I like a nice variety. Morning,daytime,nite nite. I run coco that I amend myself. Kinda like subs super soil in a way. I got the recipe from a friend. I'm Lovin it. Just add water. U ever want the recipe I got u


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## gudkarma (Jan 9, 2012)

soma's cut of lavander x amnesia haze , e$kobar


----------



## Bluejeans (Jan 9, 2012)

THESkunkMunkie said:


>


OMG! That made me laugh out loud!


----------



## Bluejeans (Jan 9, 2012)

TheLastWood said:


> BlueJeans coco is the shit and I'm sure you will be very happy with it. How come u never in the seedfreaks thread anymore? If u need any help with switching to coco we will get u set up rite.


Well then consider this my official request for help.  I've been thinking I wanted to try coco, but I am totally clueless. So far I've grown in FFOF mixed with perlite, and DWC.

As for the Seed Collectors thread, it's funny. I've been lurking and I get involved in the reading, then I read something that sparks my need to make notes...and then I get side tracked and never get around to posting. But I'm learning SO much lurking there! When I get my recent Lucky 7 Attitude order, I will officially have gear for 30 strains! Imagine that from the old lady that appeared 3 months ago without even bag seeds to start with! LOL

I'll skip over when my Attitude order arrives and post my list. I'm proud of it!


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## Bluejeans (Jan 9, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Hey Blu here is a good ref of coco I posted on another forum.. Check it out it been around for a while but it's the basics to get u started etc. good luck
> 
> http://forum.grasscity.com/coco-coir/620656-askeds-coco-guide.html


Thanks! +rep... I musta hit something stupid so you've got a strange message in the rep box, but you got the rep! LOL


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 9, 2012)

Bluejeans said:


> Well then consider this my official request for help.  I've been thinking I wanted to try coco, but I am totally clueless. So far I've grown in FFOF mixed with perlite, and DWC.
> 
> As for the Seed Collectors thread, it's funny. I've been lurking and I get involved in the reading, then I read something that sparks my need to make notes...and then I get side tracked and never get around to posting. But I'm learning SO much lurking there! When I get my recent Lucky 7 Attitude order, I will officially have gear for 30 strains! Imagine that from the old lady that appeared 3 months ago without even bag seeds to start with! LOL
> 
> I'll skip over when my Attitude order arrives and post my list. I'm proud of it!


Lol.. Granny got some dank now.


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## konagirl420 (Jan 9, 2012)

Yay Grandma!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehehehehehehe


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## Bluejeans (Jan 9, 2012)

And I am rocking hard! I am SO jazzed about my upcoming harvest. Been scoping my girls...whew they are close! My red cherry berry has some blood trichs...a new term I just learned tonight (thanks 0calli). It is awesome!


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## konagirl420 (Jan 9, 2012)

Hehehehehehehe gotta love 0calli!


----------



## Bluejeans (Jan 10, 2012)

konagirl420 said:


> Hehehehehehehe gotta love 0calli!


Oh I do! LOL


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## Bluejeans (Jan 10, 2012)

Hey! I just wanted to show off my Red Cherry Berry. I harvested and quick dried a small stem this evening and I think she turned out pretty nice! This was grown in DWC under CFL's from start to finish.

View attachment 1987425


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 10, 2012)

Oh he'll yeah Blu thy right there came out nice.


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## smokeymcpotz (Jan 10, 2012)

Pass that dis way bluejeans!!!!! lol How does it taste?
When I have a lil free time ill take pics of my current grow. 3Grape Gods, 1Hawgsbreath, 2Double Whites


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## konagirl420 (Jan 10, 2012)

Right Looks awesome sooo yummy!!!!!!!!!


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## Bluejeans (Jan 10, 2012)

Its tastest sweet! I love it. Needs a proper cure though, but I just couldn't wait. The nugs still need to tighten up a bit, but overall, for a CFL grow, they are pretty dense. And this was from the bottom of the plant. The tops are amazing.... there are five of them...4 in this picture.




And here's a bit closer up on one of the tops. She's in the homestretch...


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## konagirl420 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hehehehehehee Go GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hey blue looking good! I noticed the claw in those leaves, might want to back of on you nute strength.

Claw and burt tips = nute burn, just trying to help!


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## Bluejeans (Jan 11, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey blue looking good! I noticed the claw in those leaves, might want to back of on you nute strength.
> 
> Claw and burt tips = nute burn, just trying to help!


Thanks hellraizer, the burnt tips were my fault... She was such a pig for nutes all through her growth so I have her more and more till I gave her too much. 

The clawing, though, I have come to believe, is a characteristic rather than a deficiency. In four different environments (thanks to cloning), each of the clones have exhibited that clawing as soon as normal growth began.

In either case, shes on flush now cuz shes coming down real soon.


----------



## gudkarma (Jan 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey blue looking good! I noticed the claw in those leaves, might want to back of on you nute strength.
> 
> Claw and burt tips = nute burn, just trying to help!



i was thinking the same thing.

claw : for me is usually to much nitrogen

good that you are flushing cause that means... harvest time.


----------



## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 12, 2012)

I've had these goin for a while now and I couldn't hold fire on makin this log any longer, *Strawberry Alien Kush F2* and what a strain this is lookin to be too!!...
_
This will be an Indoor "Passive Hydro/Pot Culture" grow in coco. For Veg I use small pot containers not sure on the size tbh but they fit my fist lol, I fill those with straight coco until I transplant over for flower where I'll be using 15L pots filled with CANNA Coco pro+, mixed with a little perlite (80/20% mix).
The Nutrients/Additives I'll be using as and when needed are:
~ CANNA ~ Coco A+B, CannaBoost, PK13/14, Rhizotonic, Cannazym, CANNA-Monos ~ N, Cal' & Mag'
Main flowering room: Size - 6ft x 4ft x 10+ft full room height, has full intake/extraction fans, carbon filter, airflow fans and fan/temp controls.
*Lighting: x3 - 600w HPS (1800w).*
*Veg Closet lighting ~ x2 - 300w CFL "Blue" (600w)*











*^^ Day #01
*
_x5 seeds soaked & sown driect into coco for germ' and 24 hours later all 5 were up and rockin strong!! Through veg I've kept them on a light feeding and they're now looking real good over 4 weeks later...
_**************​










*^^ Day #43
*
_Here they are before topping and I'm lovin the razor sharp serrated leaf edge too, these are gonna be one strain I'm in the most anticipation of getting flowered. A few more weeks veg to go yet though as I want some sweet looking lil' bushes goin before I throw them into bloom_
**************

_​_















*^^ Day #52 ~ Binned male*

**************​





*^^ Day #55 ~ Just after transplant*

_I've got these sexed & confirmed now and outta the 5 I had just one is a male!! Not too shabby on the ratios and he's since been binned off _(see Day #52)_. Overall smells I'm getting so far are of a slieght woody incense aroma, with a sweet berries note just creeping in there. Not too strong just yet but still sweetly intoxicating to the senses.
Here's the 4 girls lookin sweet a day after transplanting. Pots are all 10L using CANNA Coco (pro +) and perlite - Mixed 90/10%.
And all have been topped once a few weeks ago now and I will be starting to supercrop & train them and then clone through this week to get the most from these babies. 

*Nutes/levels for veg stage:
Seedling stage - Week#1*_ ~ plain water only!! ~ *ph-5.8/5.9
Week#2* ~ A+B, "N" ~ *E.C-1.1, ph-5.8/5.9
Week#3* ~ A+B, "N" ~ *E.C-1.1, ph-5.8/5.9
Week#4* ~ A+B, "N"&"Cal", rhizo' ~ *E.C-1.2, ph-5.8/5.9
Week#5* ~ A+B, "N"&"Cal", rhizo', C'zym ~ *E.C-1.4, ph-5.8/5.9* (Transplant for flower)_
_










*^^ ~ "P#1"*











*^^ ~ "P#2"*











*^^ ~ "P#3"*











*^^ ~ "P#4"*
*
************
*​





*^^ Day #64 (Total) ~ Flower Day #01*

_Flower Day #01 ~ I'm starting count from today, I've been S/c'ing these like crazy and they're responding really well too. Now's the time to bring on the bloomage!!

*Nutes/levels for Flower:
Week#1 ~ A+B, "N"&"Cal", C'zym ~ E.C-1.6, ph-5.8/6.0*

**************​





_*^^ Day #81 (Total) ~ Flower Day #22*_

Into early flower now and these girls are looking & smelling fantastic. Strawberry & Cherry incense aromas with an all round kicking woody spice "kush" bottom from the 4 as a whole. These are starting to drink up quite heavy now too and are showing tremendous amounts of thickness to the short squatty bushes, I'm gonna have to thin them out after this week to allow more light & air into the dense insides. Early resin on all 4 these are looking mighty sweet.

*Nutes/levels for Flower:
Week#2 ~ A+B, "N"&"Cal", C'zym ~ E.C-1.6, ph-5.8/6.1
**Week#3 ~ A+B, CannaBoost, "N"&"Cal", C'zym ~ E.C-1.7, ph-5.8/6.1*
*Week#4 ~ A+B, CannaBoost, PK13/14, "Cal", C'zym ~ E.C-1.8, ph-5.8/6.1*































_*^^ ~ "P#1"*_


























_*^^ ~ "P#2"*_


























_*^^ ~ "P#3"*_































_*^^ ~ "P#4"*_

Thanx for looking I'll have more soon,
Stay Up!!


----------



## racerboy71 (Jan 12, 2012)

damn skunk, looking dank, who's are the strawberry aliens? dank houses or someone else?? either way, they look lovely for sure...


----------



## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 12, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> damn skunk, looking dank, who's are the strawberry aliens? dank houses or someone else?? either way, they look lovely for sure...


Cheers my bro,
They're from DankHouse mate, This & DB-OG have me a Danksta big time. Awesome stuff for sure.


----------



## racerboy71 (Jan 12, 2012)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Cheers my bro,
> They're from DankHouse mate, This & DB-OG have me a Danksta big time. Awesome stuff for sure.


 nice to hear as i have some of those as well.. i never can make up my mind what to grow next, so i have some dank stuff on the back burner for sure...
i usually follow your lead and let you grow out a strain first and see how you like it, lol, as i know if you kill it, it's gonna be at least some what dank for me..
went out on my own for my current grow though with some of dizzles c99's as i've been wanting to grow c99 for ages now, and these happened to drop right into my lap for a great price.. 
i have those, some of connoiseurs gdps fems, some purple berry diesels from cannaventure, and lastly some amnesia haze x chocolate rains that were a freebie from sannies...


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey skunk for the record at how many days from germ do you wait to flip?


----------



## skunkd0c (Jan 12, 2012)

THESkunkMunkie said:


> Crazy hazy goodness there mate, she's a real beuity and I am looking forward to reading a smoke report too if you do one, if not be sure to come back with some dried bud shots for us wont you. Damn thats some great work, I can almost taste the rainbow


Hey skunkM sorry m8, i completly forgot to post the angelheart smoke reports on your thread, better late than never i hope
peace bro  


3 ANGELS


ORANGE pheno The lowest yielding of my 3 ANGEL pheno's although it does produce the most resin and has the best flavor and is the most photogenic/ visually appealing of the bunch
i like this plant alot it taste great and has a powerful indica stone, the buds are very light in colour compared to all the other buds i have, 

with a few thick orange/brown pistils the bud structure is a collection of dense swollen calyx that tend to stack upward or in a small group the calyx are much bigger with this pheno than my other keepers, the flower to leaf ratio of these buds is also very good
everything is great about this pheno other than its lower yield, this can be improved i think on the clone run 
the smell of the orange pheno is nice and sweet not a strong or pungent smell, 
orange marmalade or orange preserve/jam is the closest thing this reminds me of
squeezing the bud lightly gives out much the same smell only stronger, no skunky or musky smells at all, this bud does not smell like weed .. just sweet orange marmalade OR the same smell of the orange jelly inside jafacakes lol 
the smell when smoking is more like a concentrated orange drink like synthetic orange chewy sweets/candy
the taste is very strong with the orange hitting first its mouth watering this stuff a mix of sweet and bitter orange a nice hash like flavor swirls around with the orange with a slight spicy/pepper edge, this taste lingers for a long time after smoking, making this weed very moreish 
the high or more of a stone hits fast just a few tokes of a joint and i can feel it hitting hard at the back of my head and behind my eyes, very calm kind of high i feel happy i don't feel like doing anything much on this weed, other than smoking more as it taste so great its a couch lock weed forsure i find this pheno switches my thoughts off the complete oppiste of the skunk/haze pheno, which is quite introspective .. 
the orange is great for relaxing and is sleep inducing it puts me out this one .. i score it as follows

Potency 9
Taste 9
Smell 8
yield 5.5
visaul/appearence 9











































































































Skunk/commercial haze this one is a better yielding plant than the orange and has pretty good potential with the right training / pruning 
it makes nice colas and bud forms all the way down the branches although it doesn't make that many branches it likes to grow slender, topping this and close planting will help it produce a good yield 


this bud is more regular looking in its structure than the orange, this one has lots of tiny little cylax densely packed into nice size uniform buds 
the buds look quite brown in colour the resin is nicely covered over the buds and also has this brown look


the smell when holding a bud close to the nose is of a pine type smell not a strong pungent smell 
squeezing the bud gives off more pine and other chemical type smells along with a musky haze smell
the taste and flavor of this weed is nice, although compared to the orange and the flav the skunkhaze lacks in the flavor department, 
the smell left in the room after smoking this is very insence like 
where this pheno shines the most is the high, this weed is the most potent i have, and the most potent i have grown in quite sometime, the high is psychedelic , both mind and body i would best describe it as a mild trip with a coachlock edge that holds me in place for the ride, i do not feel any paranoia or any speed like effects with this weed, but at the same time i do not feel sleepy at all
this weed gives me the munchies but at the same time when i am eating i can feel, that the sensation of eating feels a little strange when i think about it , this weed puts me on one for sure .. time distortion and changes in sensitivity to light etc this is not the best weed to smoke when you need to get stuff done .. the body feelings from this weed are very powerful allover 
the body rushes like a mild version of acid even my face feels slightly numb on this weed 
its very potent

to comfirm its the weed giving me this high and that i wasnt having flashbacks lol 
i tested some of this pheno on another smoker who considers himself an experanced "blue cheese" smoker 
i am pleased to say after half a joint he became very tight lipped didnt say a word for ages and looked rather white in the face he left my company promptly. 

when speaking to mr blue cheese the next day he said, "im sorry i had to leave so quick, that shit you gave me last night leaned on me i couldnt handle it" 
i did my best not to laugh and handed him back his zippo lighter he'd forgot when he departed in such a hurry 


potency 9.5
taste 6.5
smell 6.5
yield 7
visual apperance 7
















































































mango pheno
yield was fantastic but the flavor is not what i like
the taste reminds me alot of northen lights mixed with some kind of soap /talc 
the smells during growth was very fruity / peach like with a strong smell of catpiss towards the end 
when crumbling this bud it leaves a nice skunky pissy smell on the fingers, sadly this doesn't come through as a skunk in the flavor
its more like soap or talcum powder or perfume mixed with the northen lights taste 
the high is potent enough but not as potent as the skunk haze pheno which is the overall most potent of the angelheart phenos 

the mango buds produced a huge amount of foxtailing i do not think this is a good thing, it may look pretty but buds that do this do not have as much dense surface area to produce resin .. having said that this plant wins massively on yield being the best yielding of all the phenos at 21 oz dried 
the high is pretty much a standard hybrid high, more of a sativa hybrid high than a pure sativa high that you might expect from a 14 week sativa,


few pics of the finished cured nugs 











































out of 10 ill score this pheno
Yield 10
Smell 5
Taste 5
High 6 

peace skunkd0c


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## gudkarma (Jan 12, 2012)

lab shots today :


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## Bluejeans (Jan 12, 2012)

I've known all along that I would most likely harvest in stages, mostly because my hands just won't do all that trimming at one go. So now, the fun has begun!!!!!!

This is Kaya Gold. I only took the top cola and left the rest of the plant to finish. But the top cola was DONE. D-O-N-E done. Her trichs under the scope were about 50% amber and the other 50% was 90% milky white. But the lower bud sites were only showing a very few amber trichs.

So on with the show...


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## konagirl420 (Jan 13, 2012)

Yay I LOVE all this awesome Bud Porn heheheheheehehehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish my rep Button was not broken !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would be repping all of you!!!! Great work it looks soooooooo yummy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 13, 2012)

So many updates, so little time .... This threads exploding with the good stuff . Great work everybody!!
Thanx for keepin this goin people, we're building a real heaven for dankage here 



hellraizer30 said:


> Hey skunk for the record at how many days from germ do you wait to flip?


Hey HR, the veg I give depends on the strain tbh. The quicker they grow the faster they go in flower tbh mate. Usually 45-65 days from seed sprouting, satty doms the 40-45 day mark then I transplant over to bigger pots and into flower they go. Sometimes I transplant them unsexed and if a male shows then, he's quickly ripped out binned and replaced with another outta my veg cab straight in his old spot in the pot .


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 13, 2012)

thats right u can reuse coco with old roots in it right?


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## konagirl420 (Jan 13, 2012)

Heheehehehheehhheeehe Yayayayayya !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## konagirl420 (Jan 13, 2012)

Sorry Grandma as soon as I try an rep you i get thi dumb ass shit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 13, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> thats right u can reuse coco with old roots in it right?


Yeah the pulled males are only in for a few days, I use Cannazym too which breaks down dead roots and turns them into reusable energy for the plants. Doesn't cause me any problems either. Coco is reusable but your best off always using fresh imo esp' for new seedling/clones but for transplanting to the bigger pots for flower, old coco can be recycled for use with some fresh medium, as long as it's flushed out of the bulk of old root mass and nutes from a previous run .


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## gudkarma (Jan 13, 2012)

i break down root balls & keep recycled coco in its own tote... i love it for transplants.

skunkie is dead on... any medium thats reused & contains roots also requires the use of enzymes.


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 13, 2012)

I reuse my coco with the old roots in it. I just reamend it. My buddy I got the recipe from says it gets better as u reuse it. Makes sense cause it's more alive then.


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## Tuco420 (Jan 13, 2012)

konagirl420 said:


> Sorry Grandma as soon as I try an rep you i get thi dumb ass shit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.


How the hell do you actualy rep someone anyway, i've been a member here 2 or 3 years now and still haven't figured it out ??? 

EDIT: And likes too for that matter!


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## Bluejeans (Jan 13, 2012)

Tuco420 said:


> How the hell do you actualy rep someone anyway, i've been a member here 2 or 3 years now and still haven't figured it out ???
> 
> EDIT: And likes too for that matter!


To "rep" someone, click on the star shaped icon under their avatar, right next to "Journal this Post".
And the LIKE button is on the far right of the message, just above the signature line. Just click it when so inclined!


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## gudkarma (Jan 14, 2012)

double white nug


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## gudkarma (Jan 14, 2012)

if you put a blankie on it, maybe a little one-zee, it'd be a baby


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## skunkd0c (Jan 15, 2012)

Hey skunkM 
Quick update where im at now 
Few more pics of the angelheart 
clones i have kept @ week 5 

Angel orange








Angel skunkhaze









Peace m8


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## Bluejeans (Jan 15, 2012)

Looking nice!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 16, 2012)

Nice skunkd0c


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 16, 2012)

I am definately switching to coco.. Get some coco bricks and mix with perlite. I like the fact that u can reuse it.. Something I desperately need to do either that or full on hydro.. I hate buying 2.5 cubic feet of soil every 2 months shot blows big time.. Especially disposing it


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 17, 2012)

Hey wyte coco has its draw backs to! It has a natural way of blocking a plants nitrogen uptake and causing early def. In bloom!
So if you go coco get botanicare nitrex sup, this will solve that issue


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 17, 2012)

Extra N during early flower sorts that issue HR, some plants like more than most though and don't forget N is needed by the plants more in veg stage and less while in flower. You don't want your girls re-vegging half way through flowering.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks for the tips. I was planning on getting the botanicare nute lineup.. I know coco takes certain nutrients that works better then others.. I'll try it out see if I like it.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 17, 2012)

Ok skunk that makes sense I was just seeing all the coco safe emblems and understood it a bit rong lol coco
Im new to but going to master it!


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 17, 2012)

Wyte, hellraizer. If u guys Want to try this coco recipe I run hit me up in pm. It's been used for years by my friends. Dude just got second in the cannabis cup in Dam with herb grown in it( I know I know). Its my second run I'm very happy. Just add water.


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## laxfiz (Jan 17, 2012)

cataract kush: day 63. produces rock hard nugs. I usually take a few nugs now, and then run her 70 days for a real knockout high. tastes like lemon coffee and earth.

View attachment 2003663View attachment 2003664View attachment 2003665View attachment 2003666View attachment 2003667View attachment 2003668View attachment 2003669


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## THESkunkMunkie (Jan 17, 2012)

The first of my new years smoke reports is done & up >>> https://www.rollitup.org/smoke-reports/503932-double-barrel-og-dankhouse-seeds.html

I'll have reports next for *Mendo Supremo (Gage Green)* & *Motavation (Serious Seeds)* ready soon too 

Starting 2012 off with a lotta smokin , stay up!!


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## laxfiz (Jan 18, 2012)

and my favorite grow of 2011. DairyQueen, very tropical fruit smelling cheese. super funk!!! this is my 'cheese' pheno. Dried and cured bud porn.
I took half the plant at 60days (5% amber), and the rest at 70+ days. pics below are from 60day 12/12.



I love this strain. I highly recommend everyone try this strain. very easy to grow. out of 3females, I had 2 keepers. I recently found some other stuff so have to make room for the SQ dom pheno. The cheese dom is incredible! produces big nugs and yield, incredible smell, great high.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 18, 2012)

laxfiz said:


> and my favorite grow of 2011. DairyQueen, very tropical fruit smelling cheese. super funk!!! this is my 'cheese' pheno. Dried and cured bud porn.
> I took half the plant at 60days (5% amber), and the rest at 70+ days. pics below are from 60day 12/12.
> 
> View attachment 2004290View attachment 2004297View attachment 2004295View attachment 2004293View attachment 2004292View attachment 2004291View attachment 2004287View attachment 2004288View attachment 2004289View attachment 2004304
> ...


Nice lax i can see why its your favorite!


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 18, 2012)

karmas a bitch said:


> Wyte, hellraizer. If u guys Want to try this coco recipe I run hit me up in pm. It's been used for years by my friends. Dude just got second in the cannabis cup in Dam with herb grown in it( I know I know). Its my second run I'm very happy. Just add water.


Okay I sent u a pm and no response buddy what's up with that recipe?


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 18, 2012)

I did to  waiting on you lol


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 18, 2012)

Sorry fellas I've been super busy today and yesterday. I'll get it out to u later tonight.


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## konagirl420 (Jan 21, 2012)

My seeds came in yay so excited heheehhehe  !!!!


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## Bluejeans (Jan 21, 2012)

konagirl420 said:


> My seeds came in yay so excited heheehhehe  !!!!
> 
> View attachment 2011164View attachment 2011169View attachment 2011171View attachment 2011176View attachment 2011179View attachment 2011183View attachment 2011185View attachment 2011188View attachment 2011190View attachment 2011194View attachment 2011196View attachment 2011201View attachment 2011203View attachment 2011206View attachment 2011209View attachment 2011212View attachment 2011215View attachment 2011218View attachment 2011220View attachment 2011223View attachment 2011226


Nice selection! Like your T better than mine


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## konagirl420 (Jan 22, 2012)

Awwww really what one did you get????


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 22, 2012)

Nice Kona. Get to growing that dank


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## GHOPZZ (Jan 22, 2012)

Karma's a Bitch: im just getting into coco, and would really appreciate it if you could send me the recipe that your firend has had good success with.


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## Bluejeans (Jan 22, 2012)

konagirl420 said:


> Awwww really what one did you get????


Well, I would answer that but it appears that I was so underwhelmed by the T-shirt selection that I promptly lost it. I know 'xactly where my seeds are though! LOL


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## Bluejeans (Jan 22, 2012)

Hey Karma, got all my stuff! Most of it anyway... missing just one piece. I think I've worked up my modified amounts for my teeny tiny grow  

Turns out my little local store is an independent guy and he had most all of it at prices that were comparable enough to the website that I got it all for a reasonable price. I'm really jazzed! I transplanted four clones this afternoon into their brand new mix. I can't wait to see how much they love it! I'm missing the dynarock but decided to go ahead without it this time. And I'm gonna try adding molasses this time too. Ooooo, I'm so excited!!!


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## karmas a bitch (Jan 22, 2012)

Nice bluejeans I'm happy for u. Bet ur plants love it. If u have any perlite laying around I could add that to help aerate the soil and help with drainage. Do u use r/o water? Did u get the marine cuisine or the fruit and flower?


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## Bluejeans (Jan 22, 2012)

karmas a bitch said:


> Nice bluejeans I'm happy for u. Bet ur plants love it. If u have any perlite laying around I could add that to help aerate the soil and help with drainage. Do u use r/o water? Did u get the marine cuisine or the fruit and flower?


I did add the perlite (about a 20% ratio is what I typically use). I don't use r/o water, but I do allow my water to sit for 48 hours before using it and I do make certain the pH is correct (btw 6.5 and 6.. An R/O filter is on my short list of things to get, but I'm afraid a 600W HPS/MH light is at the top. And I got both the marine cuisine and the fruit and flower. 

I discovered tonight, as I was calculating measurements and mixing everything in, that it wasn't gardening I hated all those years... it was going outside to do it. I was happy as I could be sitting in the floor in my bathroom mixing my soil in a 20 gallon tub, listening to tunes on my phone and smoking homegrown in my new glass bong. What more could a grandma ask for?

Thanks for the recipe. I am super excited about it!


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## Bluejeans (Jan 22, 2012)

Oh, and I'm growing in felt root pots. I used those last round for the NLBs and I really love them. By the way, I ended up with a total of 77.7 grams dry of the NLB and it is rocking smoke! Most of it is still curing, but I nabbed a little bit for me


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## greengenez (Jan 23, 2012)

Just whipped up some bubble hash. Two spins, two best bags, out of a four bag set.(can't remember what micron)

Also just pulled down some pineapple express, white rhino, and california dream.
P.E W.R
I'm updating my thread slowly.


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## skunkd0c (Jan 23, 2012)

angel orange looking sexy at 6 weeks lol 








peace


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## gudkarma (Feb 5, 2012)

current
fat shit from
inside the triangle...


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## konagirl420 (Feb 5, 2012)

Nice looking Pics everyone and sorry it took me so long to get back to you grandma I have been dealing with some crazy shit hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kaptain Kron (Feb 6, 2012)

best avi EVER!!!


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## karmas a bitch (Feb 6, 2012)

Kaptain Kron good to see u around man. And agreed konagirl that avi is epic


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 6, 2012)

anybody seen skunk in a bit?


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## konagirl420 (Feb 7, 2012)




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## karmas a bitch (Feb 7, 2012)

Skunks on cz lately.


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## GHOPZZ (Feb 11, 2012)

Did skunk ever finish his Firestarters from Sureshot (Casey Jones x The white), was really interest4ed in how those where smoke wise and grow wise.


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## greengenez (Feb 11, 2012)

He has a complete grow of it on cannazon.


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## konagirl420 (Feb 14, 2012)

Heheheehe the one seed I brought from Hawaii and name Funkie Munkie turned out Male, it is a beast of a plant but if someone doesn't claim it to breed with it soon gonna have to chop him


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## matatan (Feb 14, 2012)

Firestarter = White Fire x Casey Jones from Sure Fire Seeds
http://www.cannazon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1111
Thread to skunks journal ^^


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## THESkunkMunkie (Feb 17, 2012)

Hey everyone, I've been major busy the last few weeks with one thing and another but I'm back to get caught up with everyone. 

Here's a quick look at my latest mistress, Leia OG (skywalker og x stomper og) @ Day 60 of flowering

















I'm mostly over on the GGG forum these days as I'm working very close with the fellas there now >>> https://gagegreen.org/forum/index.php & I'm runnng the sub-forum/help desk over on Cannazon too >>> http://www.cannazon.net/web/
But I will keep popping back over here when time allows, I've missed my RIU fam'  And will catch up with you all soon.
Stay Up!!


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## THESkunkMunkie (Feb 17, 2012)

greengenez said:


> He has a complete grow of it on cannazon.


It's not complete yet, tbh I had a major disaster and lost her and a few others to powdery mildew and never got to sample her... But I did take clones and I have another in flower now and will be continuing the log soon with this fresh run now the problems have been fixed and I'm clean and mould free.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 17, 2012)

Sup skunk glad to see you around these parts again lol hows the testing going

That leia looks daaank


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## THESkunkMunkie (Feb 17, 2012)

All my test logs are on the GG forum and CZ mate, still babies atm but GS x GS-OG was a roaring success and is being released very soon. There's a ton a of harvest pic's in the log too mate. 3 winning phenos outta 5 girls, this ones not to be missed. 

Grape Stomper x Stomper OG ~ Keepers






^^ P#5 (Black Grape)






^^ P#3 (Daisy.2)






^^ P#1 (Full on SourG)


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 17, 2012)

Hell yah skunk yah i should do some searching


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