# natural ph down



## supertank (Nov 28, 2009)

hey is there any thing natural that can b used as ph down 
[+rep]


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## damon bradshaw (Nov 28, 2009)

supertank said:


> hey is there any thing natural that can b used as ph down
> [+rep]


 Lemon juice


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## SmokeyMcPopkinZ (Nov 29, 2009)

yea anything acidic will bring ph down anything alkaline brings it higher so if you want to lower it naturally think acidic, citric...


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## doitinthewoods (Nov 29, 2009)

lemon juice, vinager


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## supertank (Dec 1, 2009)

hi guys it seems that the plants are eating the lemon juice


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## sado44 (Dec 1, 2009)

What do you mean eating the lemon juice as in your ph is going back cause that is natural ph expesially if it was balanced with lemon juice will need to be adjusted daily 
What type of water did you start out with I try to get the lowest ph water I can then adjust to min ph of 5.1 a lot of people will argue this fact being to low
But it rises each watering so that gives me a 3 day span with no adjustments usually every 3 days I can check it right at 6.0 then adjust slowly back down again 
I try to adjust only about .3 a feeding that's back down to 5.1 in just 12 hours


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## qptyqpty (Dec 1, 2009)

I was using lab-grade citric acid and then fresh squeezed lemon juice to lower my pH but the alkalinity continued to increase. My water base pH was 7.2 and since I have changed to water of pH 7.8. The citric acid would take about 3-4 tablespoons to lower the pH to 6.6 after mixing, and took overall something like 8-12 tablespoons to get the pH to 5.6-5.8. After about 2 hours, the pH would start to climb, usually reaching 7.2 again about overnight. Every morning I had to put more and more in. I ran out of citric acid and screw juicing lemons. I went out and absolutely couldnt find any pH down or phosphoric acid soooooo I got sulphuric and im going to go downstairs, dilute that after some research and protection application, and see what it does. 

Not organic:
I used Jungle pH Decreaser from the pet store, bottle like 4oz for $7 and had to use ALL of it on fresh rez water only to decrease the pH to 6.4, but it has stayed there since this morning so its working for all I care. You can try that but I would get more than one 4oz bottle.

Organic:
If you are creative, you can make a tea using distilled water and fresh pine needles. Break up the pine needles and soak them in the water and the liquid will be acidic. This was info given to me from a vet outdoors backwoods redneck type 40 year grower person that I may or may not know, so not verified by moi. (i was going to try it but said hell with it.)


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that stuff is scary. i shall attempt to mess with it when i am less stoned. im man enough to admit when i shouldnt be doing something, and that something is dicking around with muriatic acid while stoned.


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## supertank (Dec 1, 2009)

yep im going to go to the shop and get some ph dn thanks for the help


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## oregon024 (Dec 1, 2009)

supertank said:


> yep im going to go to the shop and get some ph dn thanks for the help


 take viniger off the list guys.it has salts in it that will kill your plant.


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## qptyqpty (Dec 2, 2009)

I used the sulphuric acid last night and I am unsure about the results. I mixed less than 2 tbsp in a 5gal water bottle filled with tap water that was pH 7.2 and this amount decreased the pH to 3.2. However, I did not measure the ppm before adding the sulphuric acid. Previously, all water from tap in my home is 7.2 and 90-120ppm (i cant remember off top of my head). Now, I usually keep 15-18 gallons in my rez, lesser the better I think, but using the 5 gallons of treated water only reduced my pH by .2, to 6.4. (pH increased from the night before to 6.6) I checked my ppm (attempting to keep at 1200 or so) and it was over 1600! I checked the ppm of the treated water, and with that little amount of acid the ppm increased to 1010ppm from 120ish. Is this supposed to happen?

Until I figure out how to properly dilute the acid and whatever, _I_ am not recommending it. My plants are most likely in some type of lockout because since I ran out of citric acid they have been growing NIL. Not doing badly, not doing great, just sitting there. 

To me it looks like Phosphoric acid is the way to go, period. (and you can get food grade, such as Milkstone Remover from tractor supply co. yet mine do not carry it =/


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## sado44 (Dec 2, 2009)

well you also havew to understand that if your PH fluctuates to much or your plants see drastic changes in PH they will lockdown on you. I try to adjust my PH .9 over about 12 hours usually about 3 feeds during this time so they dont see drastic changes. Yea also have to watch out how you adjust your PH salts will kill your babys so be carefull when looking for a natural ph down and never over do it if you can get your PH to around 5.1 do it and adjust every day to keep it around there if you miss 2 or 3 days and it goes up to 7-8 if found your better off changing water and starting over my plants never have done good with large ph adjustments just keep this in mind also im not sure what it is called but if you go to a pet store they have this tablet that helps maintain ph lvl they have ones for 7ph and 6ph just a thought ive never used them but you might look into it see if its worth a try. good luck


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## qptyqpty (Dec 3, 2009)

*&#945;*

I have said it over and over and over when giving people marine aquarium advice; When it comes to keeping fresh water, its best to change, and change often. 

For fish, they absorb minerals and salt through osmotic process and gill structure. Roots absorb through osmotic pressure. Basically everything in the water is immediately available to plants and animals and so will affect them nearly immediately. The best way to correct any problem is to start with the absolute best water you can find. Pure, unpolluted rain is probably the best, followed by Reverse osmosis water (w/o silicon filter for plants), then typical city rain, filtered through activated carbon, and um... "enriched" deionized distilled water -- where you treat with trace minerals, spring, etc im sure you get the picture.

If pH gets too out of wack, just start over. Your plants will always love more water. However, tossing out those nutes doesnt feel too good, being that in 2 weeks I am about to have to buy a new set of GH. So I only change once a week which is still good, but twice a week would hurt the wallet. 

_That said_, I have worked with the Sulphuric Acid more today, and while on lunch, I took the instructions here http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-37804.html (SORRY its from another forum! I dont care where my research comes from, i want the damn answers now, post haste. So wherever they come from thats that.) I ended up with [_2oz,59mL,1/4cup_] of sulphuric acid _[32oz, 946mL, 4cup]_ into distilled water. Using rubber chemgear gloves, I poured the acid into a_ [2oz, 59mL,1/4 c.]_ measuring cup and funneled into a milk gallon jug filled with _[32oz, 946mL, 4cup]_ distilled water. I decon everything with *1c arm n hammer* in a plastic bowl of agua. a little fizzing. pH of diluted acid is 3.5 with a ppm/ec of negative. I measure and apply to res; it takes _[2oz, 59mL,1/4 c.] _of diluted acid at this strength to reduce pH by .1 to final 6.8 and i dont really like that strength. So I come home after work, take same jug and add _[6oz,177mL, 3/4cup]_ distilled water and _[2oz, 59mL,1/4 c.]_ sulphuric acid. pH reads 1.5 and ppm of negative. End results are _[4oz, 118mL, 1/2cup] _sulphuric acid diluted in _[38oz, 1124mL,4-3/4cup] _distilled water, A grand total of [42oz, 1242mL, 5-1/4cup] of pH Decreaser&#8482; Made at home for a grand total of *$13.18*. If I bought that much Jungle pH Decreaser&#8482;, it would cost me about *$42*.
AND I still have [96oz, 2839mL, 12cups] of distilled water and [124oz, 3667mL, 15-1/2cups] of sulphuric acid.

Took this down to the res. Took a before reading of pH 6.5 and ppm of 1430. Applied 2 tbsp of diluted acid to res and observed changes in realtime on immersed Milwaukee&#8482; tester. Immediately the reading began to flicker between 6.5-6.4, and after 13 seconds dropped to 6.4 and stayed. Added another 2 tbsp to reach 6.3, then added 4 tbsp -- 6.0. 

(8 tbsp - 1/2 cup - 4oz - 118mL) to drop the pH in MY res of currently 20 gallons by .5 is the _*exact*_ strength of Jungle&#8482; Aquatics Ph Decreaser&#8482; (4oz/entire bottle).

So if you want to make your own, the above is exactly as I diluted sulphuric acid, took readings, and applied to my res. I prefer stringer still, so I hope to achieve two strengths of about 1oz per .5 pH drop for large adjustments, and 2oz per .5 drop for finer tuning. That way I will be able to use teaspoon measurements effectively.

I dont really care so much about the quick pH adjustments as these are just bagseed and they flourish under moderate abuse. I have to provide them _everything_ they need, heh. They had started to grow maybe .25"-.5" after I came home from work, from the earlier pH adjustment to 6.5. 

I am going to check my pH again in a little bit, but I am fairly sure it will be settled at around 5.3-5.6. I try to change the res every friday or saturday, so its got a change soon anyway. 

I plan on being much more gentle on the WW; this is my calculated crash course =)



*&#8486;*


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Dec 3, 2009)

Of late I've been using a product called "Acid Magic", it cost about 8 bucks a quart and it seems to work very well, .5ml brings my ph down 2 full points in 5 gallon buckets.
"Acid Magic is a much safer alternative to Muriatic Acid. It is a buffered Hydrochloric Acid that has 90% less fumes and can't burn intact skin. Can be used for lowering pH and acid washing."

Check the vid for proof on the "cannot burn skin" claim.

http://www.horizonpoolsupply.com/website/store/index.php?strWebAction=item_detail&intItemID=883

GWN


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Dec 3, 2009)

qptyqpty said:


> *&#945;*
> 
> I have said it over and over and over when giving people marine aquarium advice; When it comes to keeping fresh water, its best to change, and change often.
> 
> I have always thought "Marine aquarium" referred to salt water.?


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## qptyqpty (Dec 6, 2009)

Yes marine aquarium is saltwater, but I was referring to fresh water as clean - free of contaminants =P Im always at least a tad confusing


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Dec 6, 2009)

qptyqpty said:


> Yes marine aquarium is saltwater, but I was referring to fresh water as clean - free of contaminants =P Im always at least a tad confusing


No harm no foul, at one point several years back my 90 had two big red voltan Lions along with 3 moray's and an array of wrasse's & such. A very impressive array but labor intensive to maintain properly.
GWN


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## qptyqpty (Dec 7, 2009)

GreatwhiteNorth said:


> No harm no foul, at one point several years back my 90 had two big red voltan Lions along with 3 moray's and an array of wrasse's & such. A very impressive array but labor intensive to maintain properly.
> GWN


That sounds way nice! I have not taken care of any type of Volitans but some reason I thought they were territorial. I had a fiery wrasse that died due to a skin infection during it's quarantine period, but it didnt make it. (and the LFS wouldnt give me a refund even with my pristine water.)

Even so, you can always tell the difference good, clean, new water makes on animals and vegetation. 

If I didnt already have too many hobbies and too much work, I would go back to fish-keeping. When you take all the work out of it and allow mother nature to do her thing, its really quite easy.



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Update on the Diluted Acid, ive been using it now for a few days, and it is working like a charm. Use the method I had posted earlier, ees gut!


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## compassionateExotic (Feb 25, 2016)

When you google "organic ph down" : this is the thread right on top!


So question is: has anyone made any new suggestions or better concentration advice cause lemon juice sounds weak and more expensive than hydro bought ? That's def sad cause I'm sure it's simple stuff and they are ripping off


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