# Club Vert LED



## ttystikk (Nov 29, 2016)

So as to unite and show our solidarity, we brethren of the discipline of growing vertically with LED lighting shall herein come together and share our successes, failures, leaps and foibles related to the noble cause.

Or, someplace to post our shit when we get kicked out of the light bulb threads, lol


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## ThaiBaby1 (Nov 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> So as to unite and show our solidarity, we brethren of the discipline of growing vertically with LED lighting shall herein come together and share our successes, failures, leaps and foibles related to the noble cause.
> 
> Or, someplace to post our shit when we get kicked out of the light bulb threads, lol


I invited Yodaweed to the thread. You don't mind do you?


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## ttystikk (Nov 29, 2016)

I'll start; I want to address the assumption that a vertical grow must be round in shape. 

My own Super Silos were round, but only because of the nature of the HID light source. LED is generally much more directional, which renders the classic round or cylindrical shape _unnecessary_. 

Therefore, I believe the new shape of vertical growing with LED lighting is flat panels. One immediate advantage is that flattening the panel reduces leaf shading substantially.


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## ttystikk (Nov 29, 2016)

ThaiBaby1 said:


> I invited Yodaweed to the thread. You don't mind do you?


Cool! YOU babysit this time. I'm tired of wiping his ass.


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## ThaiBaby1 (Nov 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Cool! YOU babysit this time. I'm tired of wiping his ass.


There was a guy on the old overgrow.com who grew vertical. Grew 4 big plants, lights were 1 1k in the center with 1 600 in each corner.
My main concern with vertical leds is that they probably need more cooling since the heatsinks are beside the led instead of above. Have you observed this?


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## ttystikk (Nov 29, 2016)

ThaiBaby1 said:


> There was a guy on the old overgrow.com who grew vertical. Grew 4 big plants, lights were 1 1k in the center with 1 600 in each corner.
> My main concern with vertical leds is that they probably need more cooling since the heatsinks are beside the led instead of above. Have you observed this?


I haven't personally observed it as yet because I don't currently have any LED panels with cooling fins.

That said, vertically oriented cooling fins are more effective than other alternatives because they take advantage of convection currents; air next to the fins warms... and then rises, pulling heat away and bringing more air up from beneath. Short of active cooling, this is the most efficient way to orient them.

To address the direction of heat flows from COB to sink, that's managed by conduction, which is why one uses thermal paste.


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## ThaiBaby1 (Nov 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I haven't personally observed it as yet because I don't currently have any LED panels with cooling fins.
> 
> That said, vertically oriented cooling fins are more effective than other alternatives because they take advantage of convection currents; air next to the fins warms... and then rises, pulling heat away and bringing more air up from beneath. Short of active cooling, this is the most efficient way to orient them.
> 
> To address the direction of heat flows from COB to sink, that's managed by conduction, which is why one uses thermal paste.


thermal paste is supposed to be unnecessary with the qb boards, but may be a good idea for vertical. I'm thinking of a config like Rm3's except using the quantum boards instead of T5's.


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## ttystikk (Nov 30, 2016)

ThaiBaby1 said:


> thermal paste is supposed to be unnecessary with the qb boards, but may be a good idea for vertical. I'm thinking of a config like Rm3's except using the quantum boards instead of T5's.


Convective cooling would work fine across the large surface area of a Quantum board. Again, the air picks up the heat and rises, carrying it away.

Frankly, I'd expect the board to run cooler run vertically than flat.

@robincnn would you care to do a bit of testing to see which orientation runs cooler? I think the results might surprise some people.


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## DesertHydro (Nov 30, 2016)

here's what i'm thinking.... if you use my design and make tons of money then you owe me dinner lol.

get ahold of a TIG welder and this could be a pretty cool contraption. someone make this come to life. im focusing my funds into my first two COB arrays. another cool idea would be to use round pipe heatsink with the fins on the inside and then mount the COBs onto aluminum pieces that are radius cut so they make good contact with the pipe.


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## DesertHydro (Nov 30, 2016)

headed in the right direction


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## ttystikk (Nov 30, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> here's what i'm thinking.... if you use my design and make tons of money then you owe my dinner lol.
> 
> get ahold of a TIG welder and this could be a pretty cool contraption. someone make this come to life. im focusing my funds into my first two COB arrays. another cool idea would be to use round pipe heatsink with the fins on the inside and then mount the COBs onto aluminum pieces that are radius cut so they make good contact with the pipe. View attachment 3842377


Folks seem stuck on round cylinders and forcing directing lighting to be something it isn't- namely, omnidirectional.

Why not instead simply run LED lights onto flat trellis panels?


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## DesertHydro (Nov 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Folks seem stuck on round cylinders and forcing directing lighting to be something it isn't- namely, omnidirectional.
> 
> Why not instead simply run LED lights onto flat trellis panels?


I'm just thinking in order to maximize efficiency of a small tent. The square tube would aim light at all sides but I don't know if 4-6 cobs in a row aimed at one side would be enough.


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## ttystikk (Nov 30, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> I'm just thinking in order to maximize efficiency of a small tent. The square tube would aim light at all sides but I don't know if 4-6 cobs in a row aimed at one side would be enough.


It all depends on the dimensions of the tent.


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## ttystikk (Nov 30, 2016)

This was grown in front of an over/under pair of 860W CDM Allstart lamps- but still on a flat trellis;


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## ThaiBaby1 (Nov 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> This was grown in front of an over/under pair of 860W CDM Allstart lamps- but still on a flat trellis;
> View attachment 3842801


I was thinking vertical quantum boards with joints in between boards so that the top boards could be over the plants when small and moved more vertical as the plant grows


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## ttystikk (Nov 30, 2016)

ThaiBaby1 said:


> I was thinking vertical quantum boards with joints in between boards so that the top boards could be over the plants when small and moved more vertical as the plant grows


I think that's an example of disjointed thinking.


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## gr865 (Dec 1, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> here's what i'm thinking.... if you use my design and make tons of money then you owe me dinner lol.
> 
> get ahold of a TIG welder and this could be a pretty cool contraption. someone make this come to life. im focusing my funds into my first two COB arrays. another cool idea would be to use round pipe heatsink with the fins on the inside and then mount the COBs onto aluminum pieces that are radius cut so they make good contact with the pipe. View attachment 3842377


DHydro,
in the drawing you say 64 sqft that is 4x4 x 4 walls, wouldn't that be4x6 x 4 walls or 96 sqft.


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## DesertHydro (Dec 1, 2016)

gr865 said:


> DHydro,
> in the drawing you say 64 sqft that is 4x4 x 4 walls, wouldn't that be4x6 x 4 walls or 96 sqft.


Yeah but I was was thinking that the amount of cobs that I suggested on that column I drew would only cover four feet up the tent wall. I don't normally run my trellis all the way up but I guess that would be the best way to maximize space and efficiency. To cover all the way up you would need a whole lot of watts in that 4x4 but it could be done


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> Yeah but I was was thinking that the amount of cobs that I suggested on that column I drew would only cover four feet up the tent wall. I don't normally run my trellis all the way up but I guess that would be the best way to maximize space and efficiency. To cover all the way up you would need a whole lot of watts in that 4x4 but it could be done


About 1200W of good COB LED, or up to 2kW of HID would kick ass in there.


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## DesertHydro (Dec 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> About 1200W of good COB LED, or up to 2kW of HID would kick ass in there.


If I'm already running 1k of Hps my guess is that 1200w of cob would be a whole lot cooler and easier to handle in the summer


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## DesertHydro (Dec 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> About 1200W of good COB LED, or up to 2kW of HID would kick ass in there.


 When you say 1200 w of cobs are you talking only two sides or all 4?


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> When you say 1200 w of cobs are you talking only two sides or all 4?


All four, of course!


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## DesertHydro (Dec 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> All four, of course!


ok cool. i was just looking into the SIPs right now. if i remember correctly you are running Tupur? if i go back to monster plants and vertical i think i will go that route. are you running jacks as well?


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> ok cool. i was just looking into the SIPs right now. if i remember correctly you are running Tupur? if i go back to monster plants and vertical i think i will go that route. are you running jacks as well?


Yes and yes. Happy with it, too.


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## pockitsPM (Dec 1, 2016)

I feel stupid but what's cold fusion plasma irradiation


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> I feel stupid but what's cold fusion plasma irradiation


It's the next big thing, haven't you heard?


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## pockitsPM (Dec 1, 2016)

Apparently I'm out of the loop or I'm missing the sarcasm here lol.


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## pockitsPM (Dec 1, 2016)

Btw tty I've been creeping in your post history and you've done nothing but amazing work... but I'm sure you already knew that


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Apparently I'm out of the loop or I'm missing the sarcasm here lol.


I've had my fun; it's pure SciFi.


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Btw tty I've been creeping in your post history and you've done nothing but amazing work... but I'm sure you already knew that


I never get tired of hearing people's reactions, though- thank you!


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## gr865 (Dec 1, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> headed in the right direction View attachment 3842379


I really like that design!


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## pockitsPM (Dec 1, 2016)

I thought it was sifi but i tried googling came up with nothing and was just feeling more and more stoopid by the second i searched so i had to ask lol. 

but thank you for sharing your knowledge with the class 

So what's your lay out with this led vert set up? brand, watts, position, mounted to, ect?


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> I thought it was sifi but i tried googling came up with nothing and was just feeling more and more stoopid by the second i searched so i had to ask lol.
> 
> but thank you for sharing your knowledge with the class
> 
> So what's your lay out with this led vert set up? brand, watts, position, mounted to, ect?


I engineered it myself and had the COB LED modules built to my specifications.

Brand is indoor cultivation consulting.


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## pockitsPM (Dec 1, 2016)

Lol yea that's above my pay grade


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Lol yea that's above my pay grade


Nah. Anyone can grow vertically. 

The plants themselves have been doing it for millions of years...


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## pockitsPM (Dec 1, 2016)

Oh no not vert growin. I mean understanding your set up is a bit above my pay grade


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Oh no not vert growin. I mean understanding your set up is a bit above my pay grade


What? No way! It's dirt, nutes, lights and training, nothing magical about it.


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## pockitsPM (Dec 1, 2016)

Magic is just unexplained science and you sir had custom cobs designed by specifications YOU came up with. your set up is on point professional level and the time and money you've put into it i can't/dont have yet and that sir is magical

I got a couple closet and outdoor grows under my belt but if you look at my history since 08 I've posted little to nothing bc imo what I've done isn't even note worthy.

Another reason I don't have many posts is people seem easily aggravated with stupidity so ive always just sat on the side lines and watched for almost 10 years lol. and id like to say thanks for not giving me shit lol


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## ThaiBaby1 (Dec 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> What? No way! It's dirt, nutes, lights and training, nothing magical about it.


Basically espalier for marijuana.


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## pockitsPM (Dec 1, 2016)

How long do you veg


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

ThaiBaby1 said:


> Basically espalier for marijuana.


I've said the same in so many words.


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## ttystikk (Dec 1, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> How long do you veg


About 3 months


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## ThaiBaby1 (Dec 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I've said the same in so many words.


yeh, I found that out later looking at your vert thread.


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## robincnn (Dec 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Convective cooling would work fine across the large surface area of a Quantum board. Again, the air picks up the heat and rises, carrying it away.
> Frankly, I'd expect the board to run cooler run vertically than flat.
> @robincnn would you care to do a bit of testing to see which orientation runs cooler? I think the results might surprise some people.


Testing Vertical orientation here.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-12#post-13180616


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2016)

robincnn said:


> Testing Vertical orientation here.
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-12#post-13180616


TEN degrees C cooler, 18F- that's substantial!


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## WeedFreak78 (Dec 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Folks seem stuck on round cylinders and forcing directing lighting to be something it isn't- namely, omnidirectional.
> 
> Why not instead simply run LED lights onto flat trellis panels?


Are you suggesting running a single plane of trellis? Wouldn't you want a multi sided light to cover every wall with trellis? Running a single plane vertically under a led doesn't seem advantageous to running it horizontally. 

And running passive heat sinks vertically could cause the high end to run hot, where flat mounted sinks tend to cool evenly. Assuming there's enough active air flow in the room, I don't think it should be an issue, but ymmv.


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Are you suggesting running a single plane of trellis? Wouldn't you want a multi sided light to cover every wall with trellis? Running a single plane vertically under a led doesn't seem advantageous to running it horizontally.
> 
> And running passive heat sinks vertically could cause the high end to run hot, where flat mounted sinks tend to cool evenly. Assuming there's enough active air flow in the room, I don't think it should be an issue, but ymmv.


To your first point, look at the square footage OF THE FLOOR the vertical flat plane approach takes up relative to doing the whole thing flatlander style- or cylinders either, for that matter.

To your second point, have a gander at:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-12#post-13180616

@robincnn himself just did a vertical vs horizontal cooling test. The vertical board runs cooler, not warmer. Your concerns about the top being warmer than the bottom smacks of the perfect being the enemy of the already clearly better. In fact this arrangement creates its own convective air current, obviating the need for external fans.

Finally, flat mounted heat sinks are demonstrably hot in the middle and coolest at the corners; hardly 'even'.


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## DesertHydro (Dec 4, 2016)

are those quantums available in specific spectrums? i'd like to be able to get a couple in far red instead of wiring a series of tiny diodes.


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> are those quantums available in specific spectrums? i'd like to be able to get a couple in far red instead of wiring a series of tiny diodes.


Wrong thread for this. That's a diy quantum boards in the LED and other Lighting section question.


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2016)

TO EVERYONE

Please respect this thread's intended purpose of focusing on growing vertically with LED.


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## DesertHydro (Dec 4, 2016)

Who's to say they wouldn't be used vertically? I only asked because they were posted about by you and others in here


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2016)

DesertHydro said:


> Who's to say they wouldn't be used vertically? I only asked because they were posted about by you and others in here


You're asking a parts question, which is better asked and answered elsewhere. This is a thread about how to use the panels once you have them. Discussion about the effects of using red LED light in a vertical setting, for example, would be most welcome. 

If you keep asking questions in the wrong places, you'll be liable to receive less information of lower quality. That's just the way information works, bro.


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## WeedFreak78 (Dec 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> To your first point, look at the square footage OF THE FLOOR the vertical flat plane approach takes up relative to doing the whole thing flatlander style- or cylinders either, for that matter.


Ok, got it. Now I can picture a wall of modules stacked sideways, each module has trellis on one side, led panels on the other, hydro res on the bottom, pull out like a pocket door. Led panel would then swing out of the way for canopy maintenance. Maybe 3 panels in the space a typical 4x4 tent takes up?

Am I wrong in thinking leds are slightly disadvantageous in vertical due to not being a single 360deg light source? I always thought that was the biggest reason to go vert. 




ttystikk said:


> To your second point, have a gander at:
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-12#post-13180616
> 
> ...


Interesting. I'm going off personal experience also. I used to build machines that used linear motors. We had a prototype they mounted heat sinks vertically and had the issue I described with the top side heating up. We had to mount them flat, and they stopped having overheating issues, they were dissipating heat more evenly. Apples to oranges I guess, those were running a ton of power through those things and they were in a more confined area. I assumed the concepts were similar.


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Ok, got it. Now I can picture a wall of modules stacked sideways, each module has trellis on one side, led panels on the other, hydro res on the bottom, pull out like a pocket door. Led panel would then swing out of the way for canopy maintenance. Maybe 3 panels in the space a typical 4x4 tent takes up?
> 
> Am I wrong in thinking leds are slightly disadvantageous in vertical due to not being a single 360deg light source? I always thought that was the biggest reason to go vert.
> 
> ...


Carts and horses, my friend; The only reason I made cylindrical trellis for HID lamps was due to their omnidirectional output. They did not happily fit in square cornered spaces and they were cramped inside, making them a bitch to work with. Worst of all, the round shape made for a far more cramped and less productive canopy, due to excessive self shading. 

Because COB LED is generally directional in nature, there's no longer any need to curve the trellis panel, any more than there would be for a horizontal panel under a COB LED array. In fact, you're in effect making the case that flatlander style grows under HID lighting should curve up on the sides!

I built my light modules to be able to operate them beside or above the canopy, and to be able to space them apart as needed to achieve a desired light intensity across the target surface. I find the basic rules of these tasks differs very little between vertical and horizontal canopies; the physics of light distribution don't change with orientation.

Taking this a step further, I also employed 80 degree glass lenses to help focus the light more directly on the trellis panel and scatter less sideways. This again lessens the need for curving the panel- and provides protection for the chip which would otherwise get sprayed and bumped. Even with this feature, on the occasion a module in the middle of the array has failed there is still plenty of side lighting from other modules around it to grow good bud.

Answering the second question, these boards are big, thin and low power and they have a large surface area to watts ratio. Convective cooling will have more of an opportunity to make a difference in operating temperature.

Hallways are much easier to work in and build into conventional indoor spaces;


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## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2016)

Today's vertical COB porn, especially sexy if you happen to be a girl donkey;


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## pockitsPM (Dec 8, 2016)

Would you happen to have a log of how you went about putting it all together or how you came up with the design.


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## ttystikk (Dec 8, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Would you happen to have a log of how you went about putting it all together or how you came up with the design.


My thread is Vertical Goodness, in this section.


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## CallmeTex (Dec 9, 2016)

I've got a question for the vert growers. Do you find yourself accidentally blinded by the light more often or less often than when running horizontal? I'm assuming everyone is wearing sunglasses, but still. How about bumping into your lights? The last time I tried vert with a bare bulb 1000 I melted some athletic shorts onto the bulb. Thankfully cobs run much cooler. 

Just calculated the square foot for my room horizontal 56 vs. vertical 78+


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## ttystikk (Dec 9, 2016)

CallmeTex said:


> I've got a question for the vert growers. Do you find yourself accidentally blinded by the light more often or less often than when running horizontal? I'm assuming everyone is wearing sunglasses, but still. How about bumping into your lights? The last time I tried vert with a bare bulb 1000 I melted some athletic shorts onto the bulb. Thankfully cobs run much cooler.
> 
> Just calculated the square foot for my room horizontal 56 vs. vertical 78+


I can't answer that, I don't run flatlander style. 

I got lenses on my COB LED specifically to avoid any damage when they get rubbed on. They're never more than warm to the touch. 

That's why airlines suggest wearing cotton clothing when traveling. Think about it...


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## pockitsPM (Dec 12, 2016)

Well I've been plowing through that other thread but 180 pages is going to take some time. 

Any who, ttystikk and who ever else is watching what's your opinion on mineral oil cooled leds ? lol


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Well I've been plowing through that other thread but 180 pages is going to take some time.
> 
> Any who, ttystikk and who ever else is watching what's your opinion on mineral oil cooled leds ? lol


Lol I tell people to start on page 129 to slip ahead to the modern era. 

Re. Mineral oil cooled LED: Won't be necessary very soon.


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## pockitsPM (Dec 12, 2016)

Oh thank god lol I've been reading from page one forward and from 180 backwards. keep loosing my place. was going to ask if there's a good place to start but figured that would be half asking it and thought I should man up and just read it lol...

Why will it soon be unnecessary


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Oh thank god lol I've been reading from page one forward and from 180 backwards. keep loosing my place. was going to ask if there's a good place to start but figured that would be half asking it and thought I should man up and just read it lol...
> 
> Why will it soon be unnecessary


Quantum boards and systems like them will soon be efficient enough and have large enough inherent surface area to shed their own heat, making any active cooling system redundant. 

It's already happened here in my lab, so I'm speaking from personal experience.


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## pockitsPM (Dec 12, 2016)

Lmfao
in ttystikks laboratory,
there's so many things the world has never seeeen!
Then he smokes his expiraments,
to smithereens.

I've ordered some cheap China leds, drivers, and heatsinks ( probably should have started off with the good stuff then worked my way down ) but I did it to kinda get the feel for the whole process. just waiting for them to come in


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Lmfao
> in ttystikks laboratory,
> there's so many things the world has never seeeen!
> Then he smokes his expiraments,
> ...


Yep, we go up the blind alley so you don't have to! LMFAO!!!!!


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## pockitsPM (Dec 12, 2016)

Man I miss those old cartoons lol

Question sir ttystikk. wouldn't the electricity you use running your chiller kinda even out with the efficiency you save by using it? 

I've never even looked at a chilling system because I'm not where near that level yet but I imagine they cost a pretty penny to run


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Man I miss those old cartoons lol
> 
> Question sir ttystikk. wouldn't the electricity you use running your chiller kinda even out with the efficiency you save by using it?
> 
> I've never even looked at a chilling system because I'm not where near that level yet but I imagine they cost a pretty penny to run


Well yes they do- but it's still a lot less than running AC to do the same job. In addition, I can run the system in several rooms on any crazy schedule I want and it will run to match the load, so long as I don't go over capacity for more than an hour or two.

Also, they do a great job of removing moisture, essential in my setup.


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## pinner420 (Dec 17, 2016)

I'm sure this has been asked and answered. As I look at your Hall ttystikk I've often meditated on if you put the lights on the wall and the plants in the center. I know those are water cooled so I'm guessing that would be reason enough... just a thought and not sure if you tested that or not. Hoping I can get my cob on come summer.


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## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> I'm sure this has been asked and answered. As I look at your Hall ttystikk I've often meditated on if you put the lights on the wall and the plants in the center. I know those are water cooled so I'm guessing that would be reason enough... just a thought and not sure if you tested that or not. Hoping I can get my cob on come summer.


That's just a shift in perspective; since i have plants back to back, it could be argued that my configuration is already as you suggest.


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2016)

Thanks to HLG, @Stephenj37826 of Johnson Grow Lights, @robincnn of Northern Grow Lights and yours truly of ICC Growers and TCDLabs, I'm proud to present what we believe is the first quantum board based _*overhead light fixture*_ for vertical gardening;


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2016)

New thread about the quantums overhead in vertical growing here; 
http://rollitup.org/t/quantums-overhead-in-vertical-grow.930213/


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## pockitsPM (Dec 23, 2016)

Looks purdy!! You guys colab on the specs and/or designing or something? I'd IIke to collaborate on my designs but I gots no Frans lol
And is that ment for supplemental lighting in a vert grow or main source? The reason I ask is I thought the point of vert was vertical lights.


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Looks purdy!! You guys colab on the specs and/or designing or something? I'd IIke to collaborate on my designs but I gots no Frans lol
> And is that ment for supplemental lighting in a vert grow or main source? The reason I ask is I thought the point of vert was vertical lights.


The point of vertical growing is better productivity per square foot of floor space.

These are designed as primary lighting.


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## pockitsPM (Dec 23, 2016)

I really wanna ask "why is it officially called vert?"
But Im pretty sure I'll get a "because they grow vertically^" lol


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## ttystikk (Dec 23, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> I really wanna ask "why is it officially called vert?"
> But Im pretty sure I'll get a "because they grow vertically^" lol


It turns out that 'climbing the walls' was already taken.

Who knew?


And we can make more per vert jokes this way too, so there's that.


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## nevergoodenuf (Dec 28, 2016)

I thought I would throw in a couple COB vert pics.
2 weeks left.


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## pockitsPM (Dec 28, 2016)

Lol took me a week to catch the " per vert" joke lmfao 
those plants are pretty. What's that thing in the top pic bottom right behind the plant?


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## ttystikk (Dec 28, 2016)

pockitsPM said:


> Lol took me a week to catch the " per vert" joke lmfao
> those plants are pretty. What's that thing in the top pic bottom right behind the plant?


Yeah, I was sneaky with that one lol

Looks like an air pump to me.


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## ttystikk (Dec 28, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> I thought I would throw in a couple COB vert pics.
> 2 weeks left.View attachment 3862914 View attachment 3862915


Looks awesome!


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## nevergoodenuf (Dec 28, 2016)

Thanks, and yes that is an air pump hanging by a bungee.


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## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2017)

Vertical LED pics!


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## IhateLockDoors (Jan 31, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Vertical LED pics!
> View attachment 3890328 View attachment 3890329


Da Vinci painting of the Mona Lisa couldn't measure up to that


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## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2017)

IhateLockDoors said:


> Da Vinci painting of the Mona Lisa couldn't measure up to that


Thanks, man. I'm contemplating a move. Would you suggest MA as a place to go for a few years and help the Cannabis business get on its feet there?


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## IhateLockDoors (Jan 31, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Thanks, man. I'm contemplating a move. Would you suggest MA as a place to go for a few years and help the Cannabis business get on its feet there?


Ma? I don't know so much about ma, I'm from ca, competion is stiff here but you know the right people you'll do fine


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## IhateLockDoors (Jan 31, 2017)

IhateLockDoors said:


> Ma? I don't know so much about ma, I'm from ca, competion is stiff here but you know the right people you'll do fine


Haven't around the bay area for a while but they got their own little oaksterdam going there


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## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2017)

IhateLockDoors said:


> Haven't around the bay area for a while but they got their own little oaksterdam going there


That's the wrong direction for me; California has long since entered the shakeout phase. It would be a bad place to get started now, way too many established players.


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## IhateLockDoors (Jan 31, 2017)

I was in WA for a few years its a lot better then ca, when I use to work at Walmart over half of the employee medicates lol


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## IhateLockDoors (Jan 31, 2017)

Best part about it once you become a resident you could go to Canada without a passport


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## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2017)

IhateLockDoors said:


> Best part about it once you become a resident you could go to Canada without a passport


I was born in Canada. I shouldn't have much trouble.


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## IhateLockDoors (Jan 31, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I was born in Canada. I shouldn't have much trouble.


In that case there's nothing special about the us lol


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## IhateLockDoors (Jan 31, 2017)

Oh


IhateLockDoors said:


> In that case there's nothing special about the us lol


I would like to move to Canada for a few years just to get the feel of things


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## pockitsPM (Feb 2, 2017)

Lol yea im from ma and if I could I'd much rather head to Canada.

Idk how things are going to play out here. You should see some of the propaganda that's out and about its ridiculous. "people are going to be high in front of women and children and we just can't have that!!" " How pot will bring on the Armageddon!!" you know the usual stuff. 

But at the same time because it's legal new smokers are popping up all over. 

On the business aspect Im guessing they will take there sweet time setting up the new laws because the want to monitor how the other states are doing first and the head honchos didn't want it legal in the first place...even the vote was almost 5050... so idk how licensing is going to go yet. Buuut if you wanna start something before it's 100% above water that's another story lol


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## IhateLockDoors (Feb 3, 2017)

Ya, I watched it went down on fox, I still think its a joke especially the presidential race smh, honestly I wasn't ready for a female president, not to sound sexist and I wasn't ready for trump either, I don't think anybody seen any of this coming

Canada, here we come


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## Fevs (Feb 3, 2017)

Loving the grow. It's looking great!

It looks nice and easy to manage! 

Lets face it, you can't abseil down from roof bars in a grow tent, just to tend to the canopy. Well, not nearly as easy as it is for you to stand next to your canopy lol


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## Enigma (Sep 16, 2017)

Ooooo.. I can't wait to get in here.

Sub'ya.


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## Nutria (Sep 17, 2017)

So, do flowers grow vertically or do they point to the light?
I have a small 2x2(x4.5 height)ft tent, I would like to run a vertical sog grow with lm561c


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## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2017)

Nutria said:


> So, do flowers grow vertically or do they point to the light?
> I have a small 2x2(x4.5 height)ft tent, I would like to run a vertical sog grow with lm561c


They're more geotropic than phototropic but once they get big they sag...


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## Tx-Peanutt (Sep 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> They're more geotropic than phototropic but once they get big they sag...
> View attachment 4012037


Wow they look nice bro great job .. Is it hard to do vertical grows????? Can it be done in a grow tent


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## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2017)

Tx-Peanutt said:


> Wow they look nice bro great job .. Is it hard to do vertical grows????? Can it be done in a grow tent


Not hard. Turns out that plants have been growing up for longer than we have.

Yes it can be done in a tent.


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## Enigma (Sep 23, 2017)

Tx-Peanutt said:


> Wow they look nice bro great job .. Is it hard to do vertical grows????? Can it be done in a grow tent



Oh yes!

I've been running some figures on different tent sizes and LEDs. If you have a good environment and the right lights I could see getting more than 50 g/sq ft.


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## Tx-Peanutt (Sep 24, 2017)

Enigma said:


> Oh yes!
> 
> I've been running some figures on different tent sizes and LEDs. If you have a good environment and the right lights I could see getting more than 50 g/sq ft.


The best way to run vertical is with leds or cob's?


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## Enigma (Sep 24, 2017)

LED is COB.


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## Tx-Peanutt (Sep 24, 2017)

Enigma said:


> LED is COB.


Oh ok cobs are set up like on a piece of ply wood though intent blurple as far as leds


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## meetjoeblow (Sep 24, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> They're more geotropic than phototropic but once they get big they sag...
> View attachment 4012037


Have u thought about adding another net once they lean


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## meetjoeblow (Sep 24, 2017)

Hey guys I'm trying to design an air cooled vertical scrog with 4 -6 nets surrounding a single light and I wanted to incorporate supplemental led lighting but I can't think of a way to do so. Any thoughts.. Not well versed in Lee's btw but im not above research


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## Enigma (Sep 24, 2017)

Tx-Peanutt said:


> Oh ok cobs are set up like on a piece of ply wood though intent blurple as far as leds


Only if someone is cheap enough to do so.

I'm using 150 mm pin-style heat sinks from TastyLED.com

They'll be good for 95W of my COB.


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2017)

meetjoeblow said:


> Have u thought about adding another net once they lean


No, no need.


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## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2017)

meetjoeblow said:


> Hey guys I'm trying to design an air cooled vertical scrog with 4 -6 nets surrounding a single light and I wanted to incorporate supplemental led lighting but I can't think of a way to do so. Any thoughts.. Not well versed in Lee's btw but im not above research


LED doesn't lend itself to round grows. The light is more directional so it works better with flat panels.


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## Nutria (Oct 3, 2017)

Guys I would like to run some lm561c strips, drive eveything rly soft.
I grow in a 2x2, 2ft space from plants to leds, plant container is 8".
Do you think I would have enough space between plants and leds?
I will make a sog grow in 1/2gal.


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## ttystikk (Oct 3, 2017)

Nutria said:


> Guys I would like to run some lm561c strips, drive eveything rly soft.
> I grow in a 2x2, 2ft space from plants to leds, plant container is 8".
> Do you think I would have enough space between plants and leds?
> I will make a sog grow in 1/2gal.


Should be plenty.


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## Big Green Thumb (Jan 9, 2018)

Just found this thread. I am strongly considering changing up my tent for the next grow from this:


to a vertical grow. The above grow was in a 4x4 area that produced 1.6 pounds from 6 plants at a bit over 1000 watts of cheap led strips. My current grow is in a 5x5 with 700 watts overhead and 360 side/perimeter lighting. The plan is to do 2 opposing vertical walls in the 5x5 with 2 plants on each wall. The above 2' x 4' light panels will be hung to shine on the walls with 2 or 3 panels per wall. Each panel is capable of 360+ watts each so 4 of the 2x4 panels would be 720- ish watts shining on each wall for a total of 1440 watts, or I could do 6 panels for 1080 watts per wall. The power supplies are adjustable so I can dim them as much as I want. In theory there could be 2 walls of 5x5 greenery in there, effectively doubling my grow area. Whatcha think?


p.s. This is a link to the above picture's grow
https://www.rollitup.org/t/can-700-watts-of-led-strips-grow-trees.946736/page-7


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## Big Green Thumb (Jan 9, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> I'll start; I want to address the assumption that a vertical grow must be round in shape.
> 
> My own Super Silos were round, but only because of the nature of the HID light source. LED is generally much more directional, which renders the classic round or cylindrical shape _unnecessary_.
> 
> ...


Here, and I thought you were a dude all this time!


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## yabass (Jan 23, 2018)

Big Green Thumb said:


> Here, and I thought you were a dude all this time!


Hi On the vertical grow how much space is needed up from the face of wall to far side of the pot?


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## Big Green Thumb (Jan 24, 2018)

I'd love to help you, but I am new to this vertical stuff. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in.


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## bruce786 (Jan 25, 2018)

Doing a vertical hydroponic sog with scrog net. Led lit with cxbs3590s. I have done a similar style before, with decent success but due to moving to a new place did not look after that grow too well and did not check the weight of the yield. It showed me that it was a viable system so i tweaked it slightly and it looks to be much easier to play with.


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## OneHitDone (Feb 27, 2018)

@ttystikk you back up and growing yet?


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## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2018)

Big Green Thumb said:


> Here, and I thought you were a dude all this time!


That's a friend lol


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## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2018)

yabass said:


> Hi On the vertical grow how much space is needed up from the face of wall to far side of the pot?


Not sure what you're asking here?

It doesn't need to be very deep at all.


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## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2018)

OneHitDone said:


> @ttystikk you back up and growing yet?


Still waiting for the legal shit to sort itself out, brother.


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## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2018)

bruce786 said:


> Doing a vertical hydroponic sog with scrog net. Led lit with cxbs3590s. I have done a similar style before, with decent success but due to moving to a new place did not look after that grow too well and did not check the weight of the yield. It showed me that it was a viable system so i tweaked it slightly and it looks to be much easier to play with.
> 
> View attachment 4078990 View attachment 4078991


Me like! Frankly, your approach with lots of plants is likely to yield more than using big single plants like I have been doing.

You might want to find some way to hold your plants up as they grow. I use wire ties and vine clips and attach to the trellis.


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## BigHornBuds (Mar 12, 2018)

@ttystikk ever though of bumping up to a 10g pot ? 
Like the work btw...


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## kiwipaulie (Mar 14, 2018)

Good to see your still at it ttystikk!!


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2018)

BigHornBuds said:


> @ttystikk ever though of bumping up to a 10g pot ?
> Like the work btw...


Nah. I like RDWC better.


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2018)

kiwipaulie said:


> Good to see your still at it ttystikk!!


Not just yet...

Hopefully soon.


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## BigHornBuds (Mar 16, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> Nah. I like RDWC better.


Your pics looked like coco or peat ?
In 5 g buckets , didn’t see RDWC


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## zypheruk (Mar 16, 2018)

Will follow along in this thread. Reason being im thinking over the idea of using my 2.5ft deep x 5ft length x 6ft high grow cab to grow some vertical and horizontal plants in scrogs. Currently using 4 x quantum boards which im running at 400watts on a horizontal scrog. So will have to consider some more leds, but I do not want to go above 600 watts of light. Anyone reckon it would work and produce good results. Indica dominant strains for horizontal and more dominant Sativa/Indica mix for the vertical. As I say just mulling it over atm no big rush. Could get by with two grows a year if it will work out.


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## ttystikk (Mar 22, 2018)

zypheruk said:


> Will follow along in this thread. Reason being im thinking over the idea of using my 2.5ft deep x 5ft length x 6ft high grow cab to grow some vertical and horizontal plants in scrogs. Currently using 4 x quantum boards which im running at 400watts on a horizontal scrog. So will have to consider some more leds, but I do not want to go above 600 watts of light. Anyone reckon it would work and produce good results. Indica dominant strains for horizontal and more dominant Sativa/Indica mix for the vertical. As I say just mulling it over atm no big rush. Could get by with two grows a year if it will work out.


I'd need a bit more fleshing out of the concept to give you any advice but so far it sounds plausible.


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## ttystikk (Mar 22, 2018)

BigHornBuds said:


> Your pics looked like coco or peat ?
> In 5 g buckets , didn’t see RDWC


The 5 gallon buckets were Tupur Royal Gold. I've run RDWC as well.


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## pop22 (Jul 23, 2020)

Anyone out there doing Veritcal with LED? I'd like to see this thread revived! I'm considering it,


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## spliffendz (Jul 23, 2020)

pop22 said:


> Anyone out there doing Veritcal with LED? I'd like to see this thread revived! I'm considering it,



Yeh I had fantasies of combining this with vertical sog's and scrog's


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## spliffendz (Jul 23, 2020)

Would even be sweet inside a wardrobe with the lights on the back of the doors and the plants on the back of the wall


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## coreywebster (Jul 23, 2020)

pop22 said:


> Anyone out there doing Veritcal with LED? I'd like to see this thread revived! I'm considering it,


Did @Sedan ever get around to it, I know he was planning on marketing something LED to run in his vertical set up.
Feel like I may not of seen him on for a while.


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## pop22 (Jul 23, 2020)

Hmmm..... great idea! 



spliffendz said:


> Would even be sweet inside a wardrobe with the lights on the back of the doors and the plants on the back of the wall


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## spliffendz (Jul 23, 2020)

pop22 said:


> Hmmm..... great idea!


Have you ever seen Heath Robinson grows? Really gets the imagination flowing


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## spliffendz (Jul 23, 2020)

@Heath Robinson


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## pop22 (Jul 23, 2020)

No I haven't, I'll look him up




spliffendz said:


> Have you ever seen Heath Robinson grows? Really gets the imagination flowing


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## joecanna17 (Jul 26, 2020)

pop22 said:


> Anyone out there doing Veritcal with LED? I'd like to see this thread revived! I'm considering it,


Yeah, I'm diggin it. I'm sure there's at least a few of us out there


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## JoeRogan420 (Aug 15, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> I'll start; I want to address the assumption that a vertical grow must be round in shape.
> 
> My own Super Silos were round, but only because of the nature of the HID light source. LED is generally much more directional, which renders the classic round or cylindrical shape _unnecessary_.
> 
> ...


i would love to make love to this women getting stoned


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2020)

pop22 said:


> Anyone out there doing Veritcal with LED? I'd like to see this thread revived! I'm considering it,


People are doing it. Tell us what you have in mind? I'll be happy to critique.


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## pop22 (Sep 7, 2020)

4x4x7'8" tent, 30 gallon fabric pot. Lighting is an HLG 600RSpec copy ( I DIY'd it from all HLG parts ) that will run at 480watts, it produces about 1100PPFD at this power level. I'll probably dial it back a bit, I don't want to run CO2.I have a 4'x5' section of handy panel, simialr to a cattle panel, I'll hang as a trellis. Medium will be soil fed Megacrop as I've been working with this combination for a couple years now and it works well. I'm undecided on what strain to try on my first attempt.




ttystikk said:


> People are doing it. Tell us what you have in mind? I'll be happy to critique.


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2020)

pop22 said:


> 4x4x7'8" tent, 30 gallon fabric pot. Lighting is an HLG 600RSpec copy ( I DIY'd it from all HLG parts ) that will run at 480watts, it produces about 1100PPFD at this power level. I'll probably dial it back a bit, I don't want to run CO2.I have a 4'x5' section of handy panel, simialr to a cattle panel, I'll hang as a trellis. Medium will be soil fed Megacrop as I've been working with this combination for a couple years now and it works well. I'm undecided on what strain to try on my first attempt.


So are you just going to grow on one wall of the tent? I'm trying to visualise.


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## pop22 (Sep 8, 2020)

Yes as a starter, one wall. I want to keep it simple till I get a handle on it.



ttystikk said:


> So are you just going to grow on one wall of the tent? I'm trying to visualise.


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## ttystikk (Sep 8, 2020)

pop22 said:


> Yes as a starter, one wall. I want to keep it simple till I get a handle on it.


Ok so at first blush, I'm running the calculation of trellis area vs light output and I'm thinking you'll want at least 480W if not closer to the full 600W. 600W divided by 4x5ft²=20ft² is 30W/ft² which is a good number for high efficiency LED.

You may want to put a dimmer on it and mount it so you can move the light to be closer to the plant at first, them further as it gets bigger and you turn up the power.

I suggest looking at sativa dominant strains so your plant will grow and stretch to fill in all that surface area.

Because of the veg time required, you may want to start a second plant well before the first one even blooms because it can take a few months to grow the plant big enough to do such a trellis justice.

A thirty gallon pot is if anything overkill; I was growing 6' tall plants yielding as much as 27oz using 5 gallon buckets! 

While CO2 would help things grow faster it isn't necessary. Another idea is to look into triacontanol, a plant growth regulator found in most plants, especially alfalfa. Unlike most PGRs, it's not harmful and can really accelerate growth in veg and early bloom.

You'll want to keep temps in the tent in the mid 80s for best growth; plants like it warmer when using LED light because they emit much less infrared. This is why LED lights are more efficient than high intensity discharge lighting.

Folks also report that their plants want more calcium and magnesium under LED lights. I've found that higher nutrient levels in general work out well. 

Hang your panel with a 6" gap behind it for good air flow to avoid mildew issues.

For the first part of the plant's life, you really want to light it from above because plants are phototropic; they grow towards the light source. Only when it has filled in most of the trellis will you want to hang the light vertically in front of the trellis, likely when you're ready to flip to bloom. Don't worry about the bottom of the plant getting inadequate lighting; the tent will reflect plenty onto the lower branches.

That should get you started! Link me to your thread and I'll help out as you go along.


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## pop22 (Sep 8, 2020)

Thank you! I've been growing with LEd for a few years now. The light I have is mounted in a way that I can change to vertical easily and quickly. It hangs from 4 rope ratchets. I can simply disconnect two of them. I keep the temp around 80F as a rule. will tag you when I get started. I have a test grow for a seed company first then the tents are free again. 

here's my light. 4 Diablo boards. Each board has 648 LEDs. @400 watts this light is putting out about 1100PPFD. The 630 watt version HLG sells puts out 1770 PPFD! That's sphere tested data!








ttystikk said:


> Ok so at first blush, I'm running the calculation of trellis area vs light output and I'm thinking you'll want at least 480W if not closer to the full 600W. 600W divided by 4x5ft²=20ft² is 30W/ft² which is a good number for high efficiency LED.
> 
> You may want to put a dimmer on it and mount it so you can move the light to be closer to the plant at first, them further as it gets bigger and you turn up the power.
> 
> ...


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## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2020)

pop22 said:


> Thank you! I've been growing with LEd for a few years now. The light I have is mounted in a way that I can change to vertical easily and quickly. It hangs from 4 rope ratchets. I can simply disconnect two of them. I keep the temp around 80F as a rule. will tag you when I get started. I have a test grow for a seed company first then the tents are free again.
> 
> here's my light. 4 Diablo boards. Each board has 648 LEDs. @400 watts this light is putting out about 1100PPFD. The 630 watt version HLG sells puts out 1770 PPFD! That's sphere tested data!
> 
> ...


That's awesome! You'll need it all for 20ft².


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## HydroKid239 (Sep 9, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> This was grown in front of an over/under pair of 860W CDM Allstart lamps- but still on a flat trellis;
> View attachment 3842801


That's a HUGE bitch!


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## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2020)

HydroKid239 said:


> That's a HUGE bitch!


I was pulling between 26-30 zips of finished goods per plant at the time, that one was right in there.


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## Barristan Whitebeard (Sep 9, 2020)

pop22 said:


> here's my light. 4 Diablo boards. Each board has 648 LEDs. @400 watts this light is putting out about 1100PPFD. The 630 watt version HLG sells puts out 1770 PPFD! That's sphere tested data!
> 
> View attachment 4677860


Hey @pop22 , your Diablo boards actually have 666 LEDs per board. 648 Samsung LM301H and 18 LH351H 660nm diodes.

In a previous post you said your light is a HLG 600 Rspec copy. The HLG 600 Rspec uses four QB288 V2 Rspec boards. Your light looks to be a copy of the HLG 650R.


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## pop22 (Sep 9, 2020)

it's a mix, the heatsink is from a 600R that I DIY'd myself. I managed to get the heatsink from HLG.



Barristan Whitebeard said:


> Hey @pop22 , your Diablo boards actually have 666 LEDs per board. 648 Samsung LM301H and 18 LH351H 660nm diodes.
> 
> In a previous post you said your light is a HLG 600 Rspec copy. The HLG 600 Rspec uses four QB288 V2 Rspec boards. Your light looks to be a copy of the HLG 650R.


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## eyderbuddy (Sep 10, 2020)

Hey verties!

Has anybody done a vertical run in a closet? Do you guys think i can run a vertical (using strips) in a 2 ft closet?

It's 6ft tall, 8 ft wide and 2ft deep

I know i'd basically have about 1.5ft of space to run the plants without burning them, but i'm wondering if there's anybody with experience on the matter


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2020)

eyderbuddy said:


> Hey verties!
> 
> Has anybody done a vertical run in a closet? Do you guys think i can run a vertical (using strips) in a 2 ft closet?
> 
> ...


I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work as long as you meet the basics of ventilation and temperature.


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## eyderbuddy (Sep 11, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work as long as you meet the basics of ventilation and temperature.


awesome!

what space do you gents usually have between the plants and the lights? ill be using strips so i can run them closer than cobs for sure


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## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2020)

eyderbuddy said:


> awesome!
> 
> what space do you gents usually have between the plants and the lights? ill be using strips so i can run them closer than cobs for sure


Whatever works. There are too many variables to give a definitive answer to this.


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## pop22 (Sep 25, 2020)

So I did some thinking and as my goal is not mass production, but top quality and a good amount of bud too, I'm going to use that 30 gallon pot and do it organic. Working with my veggie raised beds, I've got a good handle on organic, although, indoors I grow manufactured nutrients and organic as the whim strikes me. Winter is coming.... and I'll be bored lol so this would help keep me busy.


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