# 2lbs from 400w HPS is probably possible with zero veg



## OregonMeds (Dec 21, 2008)

If you are a very experienced SOG grower please pick apart the plan if you like, but at least first actually look at the link to the icmag grow and read the whole thread, it's still very short.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/143532-over-2lbs-400w-normal-time.html


----------



## TheFaux (Dec 22, 2008)

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=88449&page=1&pp=15&userid=30088

Here's the link to ICMag.


----------



## TheFaux (Dec 22, 2008)

Anything is possible.


----------



## BloodShot420 (Dec 22, 2008)

2.24 grams/watt with no veg time? doubt it... 

that thread is about a big CFL grow... ???


----------



## MisterMicro (Dec 22, 2008)

i imagine such things to be possible uner the colluseum style.


----------



## BloodShot420 (Dec 22, 2008)

the best i've ever seen, with documented evidence was someone on overgrow who got 1g/watt in 3 months... 1 month veg, 2 flower - in a 400w micro cab with a screen - he had pics and everything... not many even come close to that.

400 watt with no veg time cant make 2 P's in 8 weeks, not even wet... maybe if you weight the whole plant...

also that ic mag thread is so long - over 10 pages, and they kept timing out for me... but it didnt seem like anyone was using a 400w hps, it was all CFLs up to page 6 or 7...


----------



## MisterMicro (Dec 22, 2008)

ya, it is a bit long, all i saw was cfls too. beautifuly sized cabinet though. im going to try to produce 5-7 zips in my 150w cab, what is that... 1.3 g per watt potentially? and thats in some tight ass space. oergonmeds knows what im talking about.


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 22, 2008)

Thanks for looking guys. 

I didn't mean you had to look at the whole icmag thread, just read my whole thread explaining my off the wall plan. I only wanted people to look at the icmag thread so they wouldn't keep coming back and saying that you can only do a SOG with 4 plants per sf. He's far beyond that somewhere in the range of 9-16 per sf and it still works, and pretty damn good too considering yes he's just using cfl's. Just like people would have previously said you can't do anything but clone in a 20oz cup years ago, myths and conventional wisdom have been wrong before.

I shouldn't have put probably in the title, my bad. May be possible would have been better since it is a completely untested idea and admittedly a gamble. 

However, I think this is a good plan even if it fails to reach 2lbs and plant numbers have to be reduced or something. 

I bet you that with a few people trying that or similar to find the bleeding edge mix and right strain for it we can probably break records for grows of similar types.


----------



## bicycle racer (Dec 23, 2008)

i have gotten more than a pound1/2 wet under 400hps but not dry unfortunately that would be cool. i think strain is important with this.


----------



## westmich (Dec 23, 2008)

I hear a lot of people saying they only got x amount under 400W HPS, but did they read the original post? We're talking 144 plants averaging 7 grams per plant. Doesn't seem that unreasonable. Even at 6 grams per plant you still get 1.9lbs.


----------



## hectorius (Dec 23, 2008)

ive heard of high yields from florescents but long veg times


----------



## BloodShot420 (Dec 23, 2008)

by the same token... if you take a 1KW light, which is 250% brighter, i should be able to do 250% more clones and get 250% more yield...

so i just need 360 clones, and i can get 5.6 LBS if each clone has 7 g... 

the only problem i see with this - is that its impossible


----------



## BCtrippin (Dec 24, 2008)

http://www.growcloset.com/product-135.html

Dude......Volks Garden. Put a 400w in it with a strain that grows low. Slap it full of clones and flower away, it even has little holders for the rockwool cubes.


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 24, 2008)

How much can one of those put out though? And I think I'd have to sell a kidney to buy it.

I am thinking about doing the medical provider thing finally, so I want a solution to to get at least 4lbs per month if not more and keep the electric down.

Shoot if I have to do hundreds of clones around vertical cooltubes in a home made barrel SOG I'd do that too, whatever yields like mad on low power with no veg and doesn't cost a fortune.
I won't feel like it's successful though until I break GPW records.

I'll be singing that song in my sig.


----------



## BCtrippin (Dec 24, 2008)

OregonMeds said:


> How much can one of those put out though? And I think I'd have to sell a kidney to buy it.
> 
> I am thinking about doing the medical provider thing finally, so I want a solution to to get at least 4lbs per month if not more and keep the electric down.
> 
> ...


Your asking that proverbial question.

High yield, low cost?

I think its been proven that you can yield a lot more growing less plants with vegging and proper training. IMHO Sog is a good way to grow for certain strains in certain situations, but its not gonna get you high yielding dank buds and its a LOT more work.

The problem with numbers is they are just numbers, when you start trying to add up how many grams per how many plants your gonna get screwed in the end. You cant count your chickens before they hatch.

Im not saying its impossible, but this is going to take a LOT of trial and error to find the right strain and the right nutrient program.

If you want 4lbs a month you need to be running 4000w of HPS and even then you will be lucky to get 2 lbs per 1000w.


----------



## hectorius (Dec 26, 2008)

o ya the mini omega gardens i bet that would do the trick


----------



## westmich (Dec 27, 2008)

OregonMeds said:


> How much can one of those put out though? And I think I'd have to sell a kidney to buy it.
> 
> I am thinking about doing the medical provider thing finally, so I want a solution to to get at least 4lbs per month if not more and keep the electric down.
> 
> ...


I would recommend checking out this thread. Long as hell, but worth the read. or you can go to page 75 for specific instructions. If you're serious about 4 lbs post a question on the best way to scale it up.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/116859-harvest-pound-every-three-weeks.html


----------



## smppro (Jan 19, 2009)

I think it is possible, that a lot of plants to add up with no wasted space from branches, thats why most 400w wont get this yield, to much wasted space. The area needs to be filled with nothing but colas. Zero veg under cfls produces 4-10grams a plant, it would be fun to try if not for the plant count.


----------



## OregonMeds (Jan 19, 2009)

Dredged up an old thread... Yea I've been looking into other options like a rotary garden or vertical aero... This plant count was asking for too much I think, and I came to the conclusion that if I were to do that many clones they might as well go into a rotary garden, but after getting all excited about them, then I learned more about their limits, so I have since moved towards the vertical aero idea.

In other words not settled yet, but I have given up on _this_ idea.


----------



## BCtrippin (Jan 20, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Dredged up an old thread... Yea I've been looking into other options like a rotary garden or vertical aero... This plant count was asking for too much I think, and I came to the conclusion that if I were to do that many clones they might as well go into a rotary garden, but after getting all excited about them, then I learned more about their limits, so I have since moved towards the vertical aero idea.
> 
> In other words not settled yet, but I have given up on _this_ idea.



There could be a LOT of potential in a Custom rotary setup. Bigger wheel, maybe bigger light, and the right strain.


Lately I have been working on plans for optimizing a room 10x10-12x12ft using light rails and a mix of flat and vertical growing. The basic concept would be new plants on the vert shelfs, and plants that are finishing flowering on the floor under bigger lights.


----------



## Creeper (Jan 20, 2009)

im running 4X600W with 40 Plants packed in closely, howevr i think ima spread em out, in my 5X9 area..what u think yeild?


----------



## OregonMeds (Jan 20, 2009)

BCtrippin said:


> There could be a LOT of potential in a Custom rotary setup. Bigger wheel, maybe bigger light, and the right strain.
> 
> 
> Lately I have been working on plans for optimizing a room 10x10-12x12ft using light rails and a mix of flat and vertical growing. The basic concept would be new plants on the vert shelfs, and plants that are finishing flowering on the floor under bigger lights.


Sounds like a good plan...

Yes I thought about rotary gardens a LOT, and did give pause to the idea of an oversize wheel with a whole lot of light, but the problem with that is I only have a 4x6x6 closet I was going to build the wheel into. (Or vertical setup)

If I cram too much light in there I won't have enough money left for all the cooling I'd need with my budget the way it is now.

That would really be something though to get a 6' (nearly) x 3' wheel kicking in a little closet. That would beat anyone elses yields for sure, though overall efficiency might not work out in favor of the extra large wheel.

Stuff a 1500w PSMH in there, adjustable, if only it existed... But I guess dual 600's would do the trick too, and that I might be able to swing when some more money comes in.

I want to do something completely kick ass, but unfortunately I'm on the tightest of budgets and still owe on other stuff like my new hdtv I shouldn't have bought.


----------



## BCtrippin (Jan 20, 2009)

As far as adjusting, instead of trying to change anything structural, just set it up in a way that the plants will start raised up from the wheel and closer to the light. That way when they get bigger and bulk up you just lower them. I wouldnt build a round wheel either, I would make an octagon.

Man a little ingenuity and persistence can go a long way. That would be a fucking sick grow to see a wheel going in there. If you ran an octagon you would always have one side thats level with the ground, so you could work on one section at a time.


Yeah budgets can make things tough though. Its a decent sized space, if you already have any gear think about what you can get going easily. If you set up a temporary flat grow you could push out a few pounds and pay off that TV and rethink the grow with a new budget.


----------



## OregonMeds (Jan 20, 2009)

I thought about a belt system too, mentioned that earlier somewhere, but that turns out to be more expensive than a wheel to build because it would need so many guide wheels to keep it in shape, plus it has to be kept super tight so that the trays can't flop sideways and just have all the cola's bruising eachother on each rotation. 

If I had more money to play with...

Remember I started this idea with some little cheap testing thing in mind, then the plan (and cost) just grew and grew even when just thinking about a standard 4' wheel.

One of these days...


----------



## Smokez420 (Jan 21, 2009)

I have done a SOG grow with 4 plants ft/2 under a 600w hps. I used foxfarm nutes, oceanforest soil, bigbud and finalphase from AN. The strains were top44 and Jack Herer. Granted the jack was is in no way meant for sog, but i has some clones and didnt want them to go to waste. All in all i had 64 plants in a 4x4 foot room. After the clones rooted they had 1 day to adapt to the transplant before they were switched to 12/12. I yielded a little over 1lb. Even that only comes out to .75g / watt. There is no doubt in my mind that getting 2 pounds from a 400w is not propable or possible. Im not trying to put anyone down, I just go with the facts. 4 plants per ft/2 is just too many is my personal oppinion. There was way too much overlapping and plants were stretching to get more light. Next time i will switch to 1 plant per square foot. Much easier and less time consuming to care for, and plants will recieve more light making 1 huge tight ass 20ish gram cola instead of 4 fluffy stretched ass colas.


----------



## BCtrippin (Jan 21, 2009)

Smokez420 said:


> I have done a SOG grow with 4 plants ft/2 under a 600w hps. I used foxfarm nutes, oceanforest soil, bigbud and finalphase from AN. The strains were top44 and Jack Herer. Granted the jack was is in no way meant for sog, but i has some clones and didnt want them to go to waste. All in all i had 64 plants in a 4x4 foot room. After the clones rooted they had 1 day to adapt to the transplant before they were switched to 12/12. I yielded a little over 1lb. Even that only comes out to .75g / watt. There is no doubt in my mind that getting 2 pounds from a 400w is not propable or possible. Im not trying to put anyone down, I just go with the facts. 4 plants per ft/2 is just too many is my personal oppinion. There was way too much overlapping and plants were stretching to get more light. Next time i will switch to 1 plant per square foot. Much easier and less time consuming to care for, and plants will recieve more light making 1 huge tight ass 20ish gram cola instead of 4 fluffy stretched ass colas.



Did you actually read any of the thread..... or just the title?


----------



## BloodShot420 (Jan 22, 2009)

sounds like he read it - thats exactly what OGmeds was saying he wanted to do, but use a 400w instead of 600w... 

not that it surprised anyone that a 400w light could NOT make 2 lbs of bud in any reasonable time frame...

myth busted.


----------



## usualsuspect (Jan 22, 2009)

I would say it depends.. how many single cola plants can you keep fed well under a 400w in about 3x3? If you can fit 32 under 4x4 and run 12/12 from seed/clone it appears an ounce a plant is common for a good indica strain. 

Check out this thread on 12/12 from seed and see if it lights a fire under anyone's ass to see how many they can cram under a 400w...yes its like 90 pages long, if you have time scroll though every 5 pages or so. Take a look at atmosphere and a couple others who post grow pics and results throughout. 

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=51760

Plants are not large or wide, so I could see a good micro ebb/flow under 400w. I use CFl's and don't have the space...I just read alot


----------



## pinkus (Jan 24, 2009)

That may sound flippant but the cost of building is one of the problems for almost all of us i think. If you are serious and have the goods to prove it there must be someone you could work out a deal with. Maybe a set number of Oz. for a set number of months. Then the roto garden might be a reality much sooner. good luck


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 24, 2009)

BloodShot420 said:


> 2.24 grams/watt with no veg time? doubt it...


No shit, especially when its foliage that is the production unit for the plant. You don't veg, you don't get La Bud.


----------



## Jobo (Jan 24, 2009)

You can get more than 7 grams from zero veg. Ive seen an average of an ounce per plant from clone right to flower. It was in a growing video though. If i can find which one it was ill post it.


----------



## BCtrippin (Jan 24, 2009)

Jobo said:


> You can get more than 7 grams from zero veg. Ive seen an average of an ounce per plant from clone right to flower. It was in a growing video though. If i can find which one it was ill post it.



The idea had nothing to do with maxing bud per plant. The idea was how many small plants can you pack under a 400w light. The idea was to grow a lot of very low yielding plants.

Its definitely something to consider, if you could keep them from stretching too much. A light rail would help.

Im not saying anyone is going to get 2lbs form a 400w light. But theres only one way to find new styles of growing, and that is to just go for it and see how it turns out. Theres only so much you can learn from reading and looking at pictures.


----------



## Jobo (Jan 24, 2009)

BCtrippin said:


> The idea had nothing to do with maxing bud per plant. The idea was how many small plants can you pack under a 400w light. The idea was to grow a lot of very low yielding plants.
> 
> Its definitely something to consider, if you could keep them from stretching too much. A light rail would help.
> 
> Im not saying anyone is going to get 2lbs form a 400w light. But theres only one way to find new styles of growing, and that is to just go for it and see how it turns out. Theres only so much you can learn from reading and looking at pictures.



ooh wow, tahts actually pretty kool. good luck with it.


----------



## weedyoo (Jan 25, 2009)

TheFaux said:


> http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=88449&page=1&pp=15&userid=30088
> 
> Here's the link to ICMag.


verry nice thanks


----------

