# Balls to the Wall grow, Riddleme Gets Serious



## riddleme (Jul 12, 2010)

Well it has been since Jan that I had my last harvest and some of you know that I have been waiting to start another because I was buying a new house, which meant a new garden. We have the house now and the new garden is built we are ready to kick this thing into gear.

I will be doing a bunch of explaining as to why things are the way they are so new growers can get a handle on things, so as always look for some learnin going on.

[video=youtube;B_3TlrZLpQ0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_3TlrZLpQ0[/video]

Let's do this!

All Comments are Welcome


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## riddleme (Jul 12, 2010)

It has taken a few weeks to put this garden together. It will be no surprise to those that read my threads that I will be using a 400 watt CMH (Ceramic Metal Halide) light for this grow.

I will be growing 4 plants, one strain (no surprise there as I advise it is best to only grow one strain at a time) it will be Sensi Seeds Northern Lights #1, from seed.

I will be using FF Happy Frogs to nuture the seedlings in 6" pots and then transplanting to the 5 gallon pots you will see in the pic's using SunShine Mix #4 amended with Calcine Clay (30%) and 1 cup of DynaRock.

For nutes I will be using DynaGro FoilagePro 9-3-6 and DynaGro ProtK (a silica additive) 0-0-3. For Flower I will be using Jack's Professional K-Trait 14-5-38. If you have read any of my Nuggets, you know that I want a 3-1-2 NPK ratio for veg and a 2-1-3 NPK ratio for flower.

Let me explain what you will see in the pic's

Garden is setup in the basement of my new house, right next to both our water heater and furnace (yes both pilot lights are on) this adds CO2 to the garden using things that are already happening whether we are growing or not as the burning pilot lights give off CO2.

You will notice two fans (4" 12 volt computer fans) mounted on the raised bed platform that are aimed straight up towards the light. this is because CO2 is heavier than O2 and tends to stay concentrated down on the floor. These fans will ensure that it is constantly circulating in the garden and at the same time will cool the light. Though I gotta tell ya CMH bulbs do not have near as much heat issues as other HID's. the temp in my basement was 74 when I fired it up and after over 2 hours on it raised to a whopping 75.

The raised bed serves two purposes (ok 3, as my old tired ass does not have to bend over as far) Most importantly allows the temp of the soil to be the temp of the garden via ambient convection. This is important as soil temp plays a part in plant vigor. If I were to set the pots on the concrete floor of my basement, the soil temp could be as much as 10 to 15 degrees colder than my actual garden temps. The second reason is to allow proper run off of the water into buckets when I make it rain, hence making dealing with the run off water more easy. (as there is no drain in this part of my basement)

The reflective panels are 1/4" pasteboard that have been painted flat white, they are hinged together so that they can be moved and adjusted as needed, this allows that my garden will never be "cramped" as the plants get bigger.

The white drip tray that you see is a water tank from an old camper that I cut in half, the raised bed is exactly high enough to place 5 gallon buckets under the trays to catch the run off.

Also note the nice white light comming from that CMH bulb, this is gonna give you bud porn like no other light can as pic's taken under this light are vibrant true color photos.

Here are the pic's of my new garden,,,,,,​




Attached Thumbnails


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## riddleme (Jul 12, 2010)

There will be a few experiments during this grow, most importantly there will be a "secret" experiment. One that I will detail in depth and report on towards the end of the grow. Once it is setup I will give you a peak photo to see if you can guess what I'm doing?

Other experiments will be about topping as I will be treating each of the 4 plants differently (gotta a few ideas I want to try out) and we will be sexing with socks (should be fun) also gonna collect some pollen and pollinate a few buds for seeds, this will be the first of many grows with the intent to create a new strain, and I have chosen the genetics very carefully for what I plan on breeding.

Mostly this grow will be demonstrating a combination of all of the info nuggets I have posted and the things my research has uncovered so we can actually "see" the results of all my many hours of research.

Will be posting a lesson in a bit and then gonna put seeds in dirt (well peat pellets to start) so more comming soon.​


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## riddleme (Jul 12, 2010)

Welcome to Riddleme's Tomato Garden, yes that is right I have some tomato's growing out in my back yard (had to do something with that bag of FFOF I had).

If you have read my threads then you know I am constantly telling folks to learn to better understand thier lights and that lights are simply one part of all the required elements of our gardens. Lights seem to be one of the most misunderstood parts and most folks pay more attention to the lights then the other elements (which is a big mistake). Also most folks believe that more light is better and that cramming light up the plants ass will result in better yields??? None of which is true

I have also said many times that a light meter is a must in this understanding process, the one I have only cost $29.95 and can be purchased here,,,,,
http://www.amazon.com/Plant-Light-In.../dp/B002JP8B82

No it is not the best but it works and only has a 2% error margin, best part it is affordable for most everyone as $29 is not that much, but since most of you do not have one I thought I would share some perspective readings so you can see why you want one.

In order to better understand a few things it is best to take some readings outdoors of the good old sun so that we can get an actual idea of what is going on with mother nature. We all know that the sun is the #1 best light there is and that MJ grown outdoors is the bomb because of it.

for each set of pic's I will include a pic of the sky, the meter, and the canopy so you can see where thesensor is (actually is in the same place each time)

Here we go first set is under complete overcast, cloudy with no sun














Next same day as the sun breaks thru the clouds















Next a nice bright sunshinny day















and finally a sunset

   

Now I know that the forum retoric is to say that the sun puts out 10,000 lumens but as I have also repeated several times that is only at noon at the equator, as you can clearly see from my pics the best I got here in Colorado was 7200 lumens.

Anybody seeing the light yet???


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## riddleme (Jul 12, 2010)

I put the seeds in a shotglass this morning at 11 they have been in there now for 7 hours ( I normally go 10 to 12) and 3 of the 4 have sunk, I can tell #4 is gettin ready to so we are all good.

At the same time I readied my little greenhouse that I got at lowes for $35 if you follow the link I think the price is a bit high but at least you can see what I'm talking about.

If you have read my links you know I will go straight from the cup to the peatpots, I have 100% germination using this method. The why is that there are enzymes on the seed shell that are activated by water that tell it to go, grow and multiply. if the seeds are a bit old or not viable they will float if they sink they are good, it's that simple.

I expect to be plantin em in another hour or so. in the mean time gonna add some more pic's of my tomatoes,,,,why? Because in a few post I have made I have explained how the ideal conditions allow the plant to relax, even though it is doing things and I have posted pic's of MJ plants to show this as well. But I want to tell you the pic's were taken at 12:30 so high sun, temp was 89F and plants were getting total access to the sun (no shade). Please take note that the leaves and stems are simply hangin out, relaxed and doing thar thang. This is what great conditions look like, some folks think that if the leaves are errect and standin up to the light it is a good thing, they would be very wrong as if this is the case the plant is stressin and one of the conditions (or more) is not properly dialed in. In most cases it is the light being too close but it can be temp & humidity as well.

On yet another note, light has been on 10 hours and temps in basement are holding steady at 76 (a very good sign) and humidity has dropped from 65% to 54% (as the light is burning it off (heat does that)

So till later, here are the pic's​




Attached Thumbnails


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## riddleme (Jul 12, 2010)

and seeds are now in thier new bed, waiting to wake up

will post again once we have sproutage ​




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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 12, 2010)

I'm scribed this is going to be great, can't wait to see these babies break the surface and go for the gold !


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## bigman4270 (Jul 12, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> I'm scribed this is going to be great, can't wait to see these babies break the surface and go for the gold !


You know i'm subed for this one. I am ready for some more learnin. lol


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## chainseeker (Jul 12, 2010)

Sub'd and thanks for spreading the facts.


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## Danielsgb (Jul 13, 2010)

Well, you know I'm in. One thing I noticed. Your ballast is on the floor, and I always keep them higher. You do "Make it Rain" so it would be safer in event of a spill.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Jul 13, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Well, you know I'm in. One thing I noticed. Your ballast is on the floor, and I always keep them higher. You do "Make it Rain" so it would be safer in event of a spill.
> Daniels


good thing to point out, that is not its final resting place, I was in a hurry to get those pics taken, it will be on a raised platform behind that back panel

I added another 20 amp service to my basement yesterday, now ready for sproutage to occur and I believe it will be today as I see one of them starting to poke it's head out


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## Danielsgb (Jul 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> good thing to point out, that is not its final resting place, I was in a hurry to get those pics taken, it will be on a raised platform behind that back panel


Yea I figured it wasn't in it's final home, but thought I'd check. My 400W CMH is on the way. I can't wait. They look like the shit.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Jul 13, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Yea I figured it wasn't in it's final home, but thought I'd check. My 400W CMH is on the way. I can't wait. They look like the shit.
> Daniels


the really cool part is as they fire/warm up they change colors and you can see all the spectrums fire, mine starts out reddish then goes greenish then blueish then gets that high white, takes about 2 to 3 minutes


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## chainseeker (Jul 13, 2010)

Hey Riddle I know something that would help the growth rates of your plants.
HAha it feels stupid offering you advice but here ya go.
The local hydro shop had these smart pots next to a flood and drain same variety and the smart pots just ran all over the hydro as far as growth rate.
I can show you a 10 day after transplant comparison it's a pretty dramatic difference. I just wanted to ask before posting a pic.


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## riddleme (Jul 13, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> Hey Riddle I know something that would help the growth rates of your plants.
> HAha it feels stupid offering you advice but here ya go.
> The local hydro shop had these smart pots next to a flood and drain same variety and the smart pots just ran all over the hydro as far as growth rate.
> I can show you a 10 day after transplant comparison it's a pretty dramatic difference. I just wanted to ask before posting a pic.


yeah have read about the smart pots, nothing I would do at the moment, not saying thay are bad, just not on my wishlist


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 13, 2010)

I tried the smart pots and I was too dumb for em I guess. Hated them, just didn't work for me, I'm sure in the right garden they are great.

One thing I have been thinking about though is the airpots. 

RM3, how do you think the airpots would work with the 'make it rain' technique? 

I know they've broke the surface, where's our pics???


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## chainseeker (Jul 13, 2010)

Hmmm if you didn't like the smart pots I wouldn't try the air pots.


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## gumball (Jul 13, 2010)

I'm subbed, can't wait to see this shit kick off!


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## jumboSWISHER (Jul 13, 2010)

deffinatly sub'd
looking great so far man!


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## Illumination (Jul 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> the really cool part is as they fire/warm up they change colors and you can see all the spectrums fire, mine starts out reddish then goes greenish then blueish then gets that high white, takes about 2 to 3 minutes


Am so jealous

Cant wait til all my construction is done so I can get my cmh's. 

Looking forward to this as I already know I will learn so much.

Show 'em teach!!

S'cribed 4 sure

Namste' my friend

" A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


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## skunkushybrid01 (Jul 13, 2010)

sounds like an interesting thread... sub'd.


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## Vento (Jul 13, 2010)

Been waiting for this ... how i managed to miss it this far i have no idea 

Good Luck Riddle ... lets see how this all works out .... I'm looking forward to following this and picking up lots of tips and exploring lots of experiments along the way 

Subbed ...Hook... Line ...sinker ... rod ... fisherman ..peer ......


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## riddleme (Jul 13, 2010)

well the one that looked like it was sprouting has broke surface, sure the others will follow soon, prolly with in the next 24 hours

here are some pics


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 13, 2010)

Thank you for the pic !


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## skunkushybrid01 (Jul 14, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Thank you for the pic !


ditto. if there was a thanks button or something i'd have hit it, as there isn't i must now waste a whole post thanking you for sharing the pix so you know they are appreciated. thanks man!


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

you don't have to thank me

looking at the babies this morning I now see the same little heads popping that I saw on the 1st one yesterday so all 4 are going pic's again once we have coty's


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

I just took some pic's to make a point in a thread where they were asking how far a 400 watter should be from the canopy

I thought I would share them here as well so you can all see them

As I stated in the thread my light is 4 and 1/2 feet above the seedlings and they are gettin 5000 lumens


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## gumball (Jul 14, 2010)

Just for arguments sake on the last post. Would you put up something to similate the canopy so we can see the lumens as the bottom branches would see them? Like you did with the overcast sunlight and full sunlight.


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

gumball said:


> Just for arguments sake on the last post. Would you put up something to similate the canopy so we can see the lumens as the bottom branches would see them? Like you did with the overcast sunlight and full sunlight.


Not sure I have anything at the moment, but will see what I can do

I planned on taking these kind of pics through out the grow so for sure will be able to see once it gets going


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

Ok put one of the ol lady's plants down there and the lumen count is cut in half, but please note that all of this is 15 inches below where the bottom of the canopy will be once they are in the 5 gallon pots

took a close up of the light sensor so you could see I put leaves over it


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## gumball (Jul 14, 2010)

So that's close to the 3000 lumens per sq ft that some peolpe use as a guide. not that I use that as a guide, since matilda and some of sicc's party cups I am not so concerned with super high output lights and what not. Just enough light so the plants do well.


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

I took a few more to show what I meant about the 5 gallon pots so you could see that I have set it up to hit the top of the buckets with 7000 lumens


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## gumball (Jul 14, 2010)

I just remembered you got that new camera right before you harvested tilda! Finally getting to put it to good use along with the CMH!! Looks awesome!


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

yeah I can hardly wait to see bud porn under this light, takes great pics


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks for the updates and knowledge, much appreciated.

PS, mommas plant don't look too good, whatcha do to it? JK !


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Thanks for the updates and knowledge, much appreciated.
> 
> PS, mommas plant don't look too good, whatcha do to it? JK !


It is a clone from a bigger one that was given to us as a house warming gift, I think it is recovering???


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> It is a clone from a bigger one that was given to us as a house warming gift, I think it is recovering???


Ahhh, on the mend !


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

well got the secret experiment all set up and ready

and to see if you can guess here is your first clue (pic)

it is a digital thermostat (you can get em at wal-mart for like $24) hooked to a 12 volt 10 amp relay and that is wired to a 12 volt pwr supply,,,,,so basically this is a switch that is controlled by temperature and can turn on a 10 amp device

any guesses???


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## Illumination (Jul 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> well got the secret experiment all set up and ready
> 
> and to see if you can guess here is your first clue (pic)
> 
> ...


Temp controlled switch for an infrared light/heat source?

Namaste'
"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


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## cowboylogic (Jul 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> well got the secret experiment all set up and ready
> 
> and to see if you can guess here is your first clue (pic)
> 
> ...


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## jumboSWISHER (Jul 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> well got the secret experiment all set up and ready
> 
> and to see if you can guess here is your first clue (pic)
> 
> ...


hhmmm goona be turning something on/off when its get to hot/cold...
a heater when its to cold? a fan when its to warm?
trying to keep room under a certain temp, or above a certain temp..
or possibly to dial in the co2/RH/temps..


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

80 views since I posted the clue and only 3 guesses???


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Temp controlled switch for an infrared light/heat source?
> 
> Namaste'
> "A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


Ding, Ding, Ding

we have a winner some one is remembering my ramblings from a few weeks ago

yes I have been researching the effects of far infrared light/heat

this is a presto heat dish, actually had this thing for years when I bought it they were $49, they are now $89 it is the best space heater I have ever used, had to rewire a few things for the experiment so the thermostat could control it and so I could tip it (aim) a bit

will share the research soon


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## Shayden (Jul 14, 2010)

Best I could guess is you fluctuate tempature, or maybe at wind. From what I seen you are trying to emulate everything exactly how it would be in the environment it grows naturally in, so I would guess you are adding wind or making a tempature thing that starts of cold in the "Morning" and gets hotter in the "afternoon" then cools down.


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## bigman4270 (Jul 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> 80 views since I posted the clue and only 3 guesses???


 To move the CO2 up to the plants. Comes on when the temp drops after light out and then they turn of when the lights come on and it warms up again.


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

Shayden said:


> Best I could guess is you fluctuate tempature, or maybe at wind. From what I seen you are trying to emulate everything exactly how it would be in the environment it grows naturally in, so I would guess you are adding wind or making a tempature thing that starts of cold in the "Morning" and gets hotter in the "afternoon" then cools down.


I am more closely trying to emulate the sun


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## desertrat (Jul 14, 2010)

In all fairness I won't guess, but responded to subscribe to thread.


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## Shayden (Jul 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Ding, Ding, Ding
> 
> we have a winner some one is remembering my ramblings from a few weeks ago
> 
> ...


:O I have 2 of those in my trailer - share the research fast! Might add this to my grow if it is worthwhile!


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

Shayden said:


> :O I have 2 of those in my trailer - share the research fast! Might add this to my grow if it is worthwhile!


won't know till we get er going if it will do what I think it will?


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

desertrat said:


> In all fairness I won't guess, but responded to subscribe to thread.


 
welcome Desert, I have let it out so you can discuss it


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## Shayden (Jul 14, 2010)

My new grow starts in 2-3 Weeks, I am going to add these to it also; Mainly because its going to start to get colder soon and I might need them for heat.


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## riddleme (Jul 14, 2010)

Shayden said:


> My new grow starts in 2-3 Weeks, I am going to add these to it also; Mainly because its going to start to get colder soon and I might need them for heat.


I will try to write the ditty on it this weekend


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## Illumination (Jul 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I will try to write the ditty on it this weekend


I anxiously await this with great anticipation... Yes I do pay attention to what I read

Namaste'
"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I will try to write the ditty on it this weekend


Waiting with baited breath my man


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## cowboylogic (Jul 14, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Waiting with baited breath my man


I was wondering what I kept smelling.....


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## Danielsgb (Jul 14, 2010)

Dammit, I was too busy today to guess on this. PC fans for CO2 was my first thought. I remember the Infrared you mentioned, and saw it on Slealthy's cabinet too so I got a 100W bulb getting ready for this. So in other words, I have my 3 CMH bulbs coming, and my 100W Infrared Bulb, Pro-teKt & I'm itching to see what you got coming. Teach away.
Daniels


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## Delux83 (Jul 15, 2010)

woot riddleme grow!!!!!! bet ur ass im not getting out of this chair till its all said and done and then i might just keep sitting here for the next one lol. Learn me sum noledge ridde


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## riddleme (Jul 15, 2010)

you guys are too silly, never thought a grow of mine would be a woot LOL


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## riddleme (Jul 15, 2010)

Ok one is being a runt but is comming and the first one is prolly a male (cause it is going so fast, my luck) 

anyway I want you to just look at how short the first one is because I'm getting 1st serated leaves with less than an inch of stem with the light 4 feet away,,,,,,,

*GOT CMH?*

I think the pic is worth more than a thousand words


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## riddleme (Jul 15, 2010)

and the delay is totally my fault as my cheap ass did not buy the heat mat temp controller (only $33) when I first plugged it in the temp went up to 95F so to control it I used a timer and kept changing it's on/off times to get a steady 80F, I think this added a day to my sprouting time,,,,,so live and learn, will be buying the controller next time I go to the nursery


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## Delux83 (Jul 15, 2010)

just looked around at CMH so all you need is any ol' 400 hps reg ballast and they run these bulbs? thats what i have read anyways i think if thats the case one day i wanna go perpetual and my 400 i have now might just be for my momma if i ever get a 2nd room to hold her in ='/ but ima be there one day


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## riddleme (Jul 15, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> just looked around at CMH so all you need is any ol' 400 hps reg ballast and they run these bulbs? thats what i have read anyways i think if thats the case one day i wanna go perpetual and my 400 i have now might just be for my momma if i ever get a 2nd room to hold her in ='/ but ima be there one day


yeppers HPS magnetic ballast (mine was $118 )


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## Delux83 (Jul 15, 2010)

WHERE!!! lol the bulb only like $57 lol let me find out i can be running a way better system for $100 less!!


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## riddleme (Jul 15, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> WHERE!!! lol the bulb only like $57 lol let me find out i can be running a way better system for $100 less!!


my bulb
http://www.growlightexpress.com/ceramic-metal-halide-bulbs-9/mastercolor-ceramic-metal-halide-400-watt-79.html

my ballast
http://www.growlightexpress.com/grow-light-ballasts-3/400-watt-ballasts-12/harvest-pro-400-watt-hps-ballast-1268.html

my hood
http://www.growlightexpress.com/grow-light-reflectors-4/agrotech-reflector-158.html

total $262 shipped (shipping was $33)


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## rucca (Jul 15, 2010)

Hey riddle thats a sweet budget light setup I'm going to mimic - does the ballast come with all the necessary wiring?


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## Danielsgb (Jul 15, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> just looked around at CMH so all you need is any ol' 400 hps reg ballast and they run these bulbs? thats what i have read anyways i think if thats the case one day i wanna go perpetual and my 400 i have now might just be for my momma if i ever get a 2nd room to hold her in ='/ but ima be there one day


The Ansi code on the ballast *has* to match the bulb. for instance, the CDM400S51/V/O/4K/ALTO Bulb I have coming the S51 is the ballast I needed. I recomend that company. I've had great service from them.
Daniels
Riddleme, My bulb is $10 cheaper haha
Here's where I get my Ballast kits for a DIY
http://www.prolighting.com/soush400q-k.html


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## riddleme (Jul 15, 2010)

rucca said:


> Hey riddle thats a sweet budget light setup I'm going to mimic - does the ballast come with all the necessary wiring?


no, the mogul socket and cord came with the hood

but if you order what I did then yes, everything was there

and yeah Growlightexpress is great, located in ontario, ordered on friday, recieved the next friday


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## chainseeker (Jul 15, 2010)

Are they just veg bulbs?


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## riddleme (Jul 15, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> Are they just veg bulbs?


No CMH works for the whole grow has the same spectrum as the sun (including UVB)


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## chainseeker (Jul 15, 2010)

Very nice thanks for the reply Mr Riddle


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## gumball (Jul 15, 2010)

There all the way through bulbs, and damn there bright as the sun inside a cubic foot pc!! Got mine mounted last night!!


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## riddleme (Jul 15, 2010)

gumball said:


> There all the way through bulbs, and damn there bright as the sun inside a cubic foot pc!! Got mine mounted last night!!


not only bright but pretty


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## gumball (Jul 15, 2010)

riddleme said:


> not only bright but pretty


Yes, the plants look so vibrant! My temps are a little higher than I'd like, 84 bottom 87 top, but I have a more powerful cooltube fan to bring 'em down a bit. Not bad for a PC though, and that includes the ballast!


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## riddleme (Jul 16, 2010)

well it looks as if the runt is not gonna do anything, I took a look and a tap root did come out about 1/2 inch but this bean does not seem to have a desire to live? not gonna give up on it just yet but did put another bean down to make sure I have 4

also put a gamble bean down, am popping a (1) Northern Lights Special as well, male or female it will get bred


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## chainseeker (Jul 16, 2010)

I have a Master Kush seedling that stunted it seems like I shouldn't have lime mixed in with my seedlings.
The mk is the only seedling with lime so I think that might have caused it.


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## riddleme (Jul 16, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> I have a Master Kush seedling that stunted it seems like I shouldn't have lime mixed in with my seedlings.
> The mk is the only seedling with lime so I think that might have caused it.


true that, seedlings do not need ANY type of nutes


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## chainseeker (Jul 16, 2010)

I wish we had a Thank you button.


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## gumball (Jul 16, 2010)

So to a seedling lime would be considered a nute?

Do to it normally being a granular that is diluted slowly over time I would have thought it would have been ok. I have 2 seedling in the same mix, with a lime additive, and one has had a touch of yellowing on the tips of the leaves and even the coty's were burnt a touch. Wonder if this had anything to do with it...

The other seedling is great, almost starting its 3rd node. 

Thanks for the extra insight


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## chainseeker (Jul 16, 2010)

Yes Gum lime is an excellent source of calcium. 
My MK seedling does not like it at the moment.


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 16, 2010)

riddleme said:


> well it looks as if the runt is not gonna do anything, I took a look and a tap root did come out about 1/2 inch but this bean does not seem to have a desire to live? not gonna give up on it just yet but did put another bean down to make sure I have 4
> 
> also put a gamble bean down, am popping a (1) Northern Lights Special as well, male or female it will get bred


Well that's a bummer. But you never know, like subcool's tiny bomb, sometimes the runts carry the biggest wallop in the end. Give her every opportunity before slamming the book on it.


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## Delux83 (Jul 16, 2010)

my runts have all ended up being my fav every grow


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## buzzpopper (Jul 16, 2010)

Very interested in this. 

Couple of questions so as to not confuse myself. What are the temp differences in the 400w CMH vs 400w HPS. Is it running that much cooler and that is the reason for the non air cooled hood or is it because there is enough air flow in your set up because it is not enclosed? What are the temp diffs that you are shooting for optimum energy to growth transitions?

Thanks in advance

Subb'ed


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## riddleme (Jul 16, 2010)

Not sure I follow you, I have never owned an HPS bulb, so I do not know the difference other than my research into the CMH said it was a lot cooler. when left on it raises the temp in my basement 2 degrees, now these last few days it has been upper 90's outside and so the temp has gone up to 78 (from 76) I will be shooting for a 10 degree difference between lights on and lights off, I will be supplimenting infrared heat to control this but also to prove/disprove a theory I have which I will write more about this weekend

Welcome aboard


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## cowboylogic (Jul 16, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Not sure I follow you, I have never owned an HPS bulb, so I do not know the difference other than my research into the CMH said it was a lot cooler. when left on it raises the temp in my basement 2 degrees, now these last few days it has been upper 90's outside and so the temp has gone up to 78 (from 76) I will be shooting for a 10 degree difference between lights on and lights off, I will be supplimenting infrared heat to control this but also to prove/disprove a theory I have which I will write more about this weekend
> 
> Welcome aboard


And you cannot forget the fact your grow room is in your basement. Basements offer the benefit of thermo mass to help buffer temperature variances.


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## Old Goat (Jul 17, 2010)

This is getting good now. I'm glad there will be folks to bounce ?'s off of. 
I started my 400 a few weeks back and haven't looked back in any degree. I MHO two of these will do you better job than a 1000 HPS/MH
I know the light is for my plants but as the care taker I like it too. It's color is natural and oh so clear. When you're given your ladies an exam you'll be able to watch your crop more closely.
I've taken a couple of heat readings on mine. It really depends on how you handle the heat. I'm using my light with a reflector with a PC fan(78 cfm) to move the air around the cabinet. I've an average temp 6* difference between outside air and inside air using 2 120x120 &110cfm on top & bottom.
Riddleme, Thank You for starting this grow. I've read some other of your work and have learned. You name will add credience to the CMH..


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## legalizeitcanada (Jul 17, 2010)

Cant wait to see how the infrared works out dude.......enjoying the read....thanx!!


riddleme said:


> Not sure I follow you, I have never owned an HPS bulb, so I do not know the difference other than my research into the CMH said it was a lot cooler. when left on it raises the temp in my basement 2 degrees, now these last few days it has been upper 90's outside and so the temp has gone up to 78 (from 76) I will be shooting for a 10 degree difference between lights on and lights off, I will be supplimenting infrared heat to control this but also to prove/disprove a theory I have which I will write more about this weekend
> 
> Welcome aboard


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> And you cannot forget the fact your grow room is in your basement. Basements offer the benefit of thermo mass to help buffer temperature variances.


Exactly why I bought the house, better/easier control of my garden



Old Goat said:


> This is getting good now. I'm glad there will be folks to bounce ?'s off of.
> I started my 400 a few weeks back and haven't looked back in any degree. I MHO two of these will do you better job than a 1000 HPS/MH
> I know the light is for my plants but as the care taker I like it too. It's color is natural and oh so clear. When you're given your ladies an exam you'll be able to watch your crop more closely.
> I've taken a couple of heat readings on mine. It really depends on how you handle the heat. I'm using my light with a reflector with a PC fan(78 cfm) to move the air around the cabinet. I've an average temp 6* difference between outside air and inside air using 2 120x120 &110cfm on top & bottom.
> Riddleme, Thank You for starting this grow. I've read some other of your work and have learned. You name will add credience to the CMH..


Not sure I'll add much, I have been saying CMH on this forum for sometime now, true this is the first grow with it and true starting the CMH club and getting a group going has helped spread the word IMO RIU is behind other forums on this

as far as questions go, you should read my Calling all noob growers thread and join the conversations there,,,we pretty much discuss everything/anything, a lot of good info there as a result



legalizeitcanada said:


> Cant wait to see how the infrared works out dude.......enjoying the read....thanx!!


welcome aboard and yes I have high hopes for this experiment, we'll see if I'm right???


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

The first plant to pop has been upcanned, (others will get done tomorrow) the runt still not doing anything and still waiting for the 2 I added to pop (prolly monday)

put it in a 6 inch coir pot (no I will not be planting it) I had em, so figured I'd use em as they are the perfect size for getting things started

I put it on a homer bucket so it would be where it is gonna be (distance from light) once in the big pot. We will now see how it responds to the light?


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## chainseeker (Jul 17, 2010)

Sometimes if I have a runt it seems like throwing it in flower for a bit makes it take off again. 
This only happened twice though. 2 out of 2 so far.


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## DoinIt2Gether (Jul 17, 2010)

lol yup they will grow if u put em in flower, every time!


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## SensiStan (Jul 17, 2010)

Ah cool i forgot you were growing, just stumbled across your thread cant believe i havent posted yet lol  

Looking so very cool and interesting in every aspect, i'm glad you have started all this coolness now as having pretty much done my first grow i have learnt loads and now i have the chance to learn a whole lot more  excellent ! 

Having seen what everyone has to say on the whole CMH subject over the last few months i think i am also sold, i have experienced first hand and all too well how the HPS light distorts your view of buds and progress. So already my next grow will certainly be with a CMH, and i may even be able to go up to 400w with a cooltube in my space  

Thanks for yet another goldmine of information and +rep


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

*GOT CMH???*

I went to check on my new baby to see how it was adjusting to more light? this was about an hour and a half after I upcanned it. I noticed it was sparkling so I went and got my loupe and low and behold there are trichs forming on the little tiny leafs

took lots of pics trying to get a good closeup so you could see what I see, hard to do with tiny things LOL, ended up using the loupe over the camera lens and this was the best I could get, but at least you can see it 

PS I should note that the infrared is not on yet


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok now I am just playing with the light meter again, but I wanted to show you the power of CFL's and why they work for growing, as well as why we say to put them 1 to 2 inches away

there are 2 pics per bulb, one at one inch and one at two inches, there are 4 bulbs, a 13 watt, a 23 watt, a 42 watt and a 65 watt

Enjoy


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## Illumination (Jul 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> *GOT CMH???*
> 
> I went to check on my new baby to see how it was adjusting to more light? this was about an hour and a half after I upcanned it. I noticed it was sparkling so I went and got my loupe and low and behold there are trichs forming on the little tiny leafs
> 
> ...


I noticed those lil glands at the beginning of my babies sprouting...It seems to diminish as it gets older...Seems they are further apart and therefore harder to see?

My Mary is looking bad but maybe is improving...Alice looking great...will update it soon

Namaste'
"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


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## rzza (Jul 17, 2010)

so is that lumens X 1000?


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## desertrat (Jul 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Ok now I am just playing with the light meter again, but I wanted to show you the power of CFL's and why they work for growing, as well as why we say to put them 1 to 2 inches away
> 
> there are 2 pics per bulb, one at one inch and one at two inches, there are 4 bulbs, a 13 watt, a 23 watt, a 42 watt and a 65 watt
> 
> Enjoy


 approximately what Kelvin were the lights - 2700 or 6500?


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

rzza said:


> so is that lumens X 1000?


correct meter reads up to 10000 lumens, desertrat is going to compare my readings with his better meter to see how close my cheapo is, that is why I did this


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

desertrat said:


> approximately what Kelvin were the lights - 2700 or 6500?


the 23 watter was 6500K the other 3 are 2700K, I also believe that the diminished reading on the 65 watter is because it is the one I used to grow Matilda, therefore was on for many hours, the others are new


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## Danielsgb (Jul 17, 2010)

I have some pics I'll post soon. I'm seeing some crazy new growth after only 8 hrs under that CMH and a 12 hr dark. I have to get some measurement and pics. They are loving it. So it's coming soon.
Daniels
Here's a couple pics of mutant growth. I'll get better ones


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 17, 2010)

Right on Riddle, thanks for the updates and the info, great stuff happening in here !


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

I need to start out by explaining how I got the idea for this experiment in the first place. Back in the day (before HID) we used flouros and incandesents to grow, I know this does not jive with what we all say today but that was what we had, the flouros were for spectrum and the incandesents were for heat (cause the flouros did not put off any heat). Now back then I could not of explained the why of it, it was what the published books said back then, so we did it, and it worked.

Having this experience and now constantly reading the tidbits of info here, I keep seeing that to adjust your light you should use your hand to gauge the heat and that 1000 watters grow tighter nugs than 400 watters. Pretty much everyone says this, since I have no such experience, I am pretty much taking thier word for it???

Now, I gotta tell ya that I do not for one second believe that it is the spectrum or the lumens that cause this, The spectrum of most HPS lights sucks IMO as far as plants are concerned and the plant can only process so much light. In my mind, with my way of thinking, I had the idea that what actually made the difference was the heat that the bigger bulbs produce. It was kinda like one of those AhHa moments that make you say Huuummmm?

This and the fact that plants do better in sunlight where I have already shown does not cram lumens up the plants ass. We all know that the sun puts off HEAT and that it is from the far infrared spectrum, so off I went to see if I could find anything to explain my new notion?

I googled the term "infrared plants" now most of what came up was about photography and taking infrared pictures, some of that was interesting but did not really apply too much other than it showed how plants store/collect heat and then give it back off once the sun goes down.

The second most common info that came up was how modern day greenhouses use infrared heat so that they can grow year round, there was also a site that talked about greenhouses using infrared filters (to block it) to keep the plants from getting bigger, this allowed them to harden off more for resale in a given area. This was an interesting tidbit of info as it points out that infrared heat/light has something to do with growth?

Then I found an Ask Ed article from 2005 that was MJ specific and explained exactly what I was starting to see, here is the quote,,,,



> *Infrared light*
> 
> 
> By Ed Rosenthal - Monday, November 7 2005 Tags:
> ...


I have bolded the part that made me decide to do this. So in an effort to re-create the sun in my basement and add infrared heat/light to my garden I installed the Presto heat dish and made it temp controlled with it aimed at what will be my canopy and the thermostat on the opposite wall. This will allow me to adjust the light for proper lumens (intensity) at the canopy and still have the effects of heat.

I will be putting it on a timer so that the heater comes on 15 minutes before the lights and shuts off 15 minutes after lights out. As this is what plants see under the sun. My CMH bulb has plenty of red spectrum so not expecting to see out of control stretching like you would with incandesents, though there may be some?

And we will see what happens? If I am correct this will very much change the way we grow indoors


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## JN811 (Jul 17, 2010)

looking great dude! You know im Sub'd! sorry man, ive been really busy lately.. this is the first time ive been on in a while.. I actually have to go now, but Ill def. be checking in.. and catch up soon!


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## desertrat (Jul 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> So in an effort to re-create the sun in my basement and add infrared heat/light to my garden I installed the Presto heat dish and made it temp controlled with it aimed at what will be my canopy and the thermostat on the opposite wall. This will allow me to adjust the light for proper lumens (intensity) at the canopy and still have the effects of heat.
> 
> I will be putting it on a timer so that the heater comes on 15 minutes before the lights and shuts off 15 minutes after lights out. As this is what plants see under the sun. My CMH bulb has plenty of red spectrum so not expecting to see out of control stretching like you would with incandesents, though there may be some?
> 
> And we will see what happens? If I am correct this will very much change the way we grow indoors


This will be interesting. Not sure many plants in nature experience the infrared before visible light as sun is on the horizon at the time, infrared is largely line-of-sight and there is not enough time for much heating of the atmosphere to occur before the sun comes over the horizon and you have direct visible light. But most outdoor plants would experience some time each day with a higher percentage of infrared than at mid day due to the differential absorption of shorter wavelengths by the atmosphere - so it would be the equivalent of your starting the heat lamp for the first fifteen minutes the lights are on. Something to think about.


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

desertrat said:


> This will be interesting. Not sure many plants in nature experience the infrared before visible light as sun is on the horizon at the time, infrared is largely line-of-sight and there is not enough time for much heating of the atmosphere to occur before the sun comes over the horizon and you have direct visible light. But most outdoor plants would experience some time each day with a higher percentage of infrared than at mid day due to the differential absorption of shorter wavelengths by the atmosphere - so it would be the equivalent of your starting the heat lamp for the first fifteen minutes the lights are on. Something to think about.


Just going by what Ed said in the article, plus there was another site/link that said the same thing



> Outdoors during the day, there is more red light than infrared. However, at dawn and dusk the first and last light from the sun isn't the visible red of the rising or setting sun, but infrared, which is at the far end of the electromagnetic spectrum. The infrared converts the PFR to PR and the critical dark-time begins or ends its countdown.


It may well be that I adjust things as it gets going and we see the response to it???


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

Got my new clone station set up, that is a 18 inch, 15 watt T8

and the other pic shows how I set up the heatdish, red circle on the left

the red on the right is the thermostat, you can see I have the heatdish aimed directly thru the canopy at the thermostat, this so I have complete control over the temp output


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## desertrat (Jul 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Just going by what Ed said in the article, plus there was another site/link that said the same thing
> 
> 
> 
> It may well be that I adjust things as it gets going and we see the response to it???


it's definitely worth trying just pointing out that in nature the plant probably gets visible and infrared radiation at about the same time with maybe a little atmospheric warming before either light.


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

Since the babies are not getting rain yet, I thought I would share a mater update, I made it rain on them again this morning. pics were just 7 days apart from each other the one I took to show you earlier what relaxed looks like the other one taken today, I tried to get the same angle (it's close) lots of new growth in just 7 days


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## DaveCoulier (Jul 17, 2010)

Riddleme that text from Ed doesn't seem quite right. I have never read infrared light having involvement when it comes to Phytochromes, Pr/Pfr, etc. Its always been Red, and Far-Red light. Far-red light peaks at 730nm. After that its Infra-red. 

When you talked about greenhouses blocking out infrared light. Are you sure it wasn't talking about far-red? If you can block out the far-red, the Red/Far-Red ratio goes up, and you will end up with plants that are shorter, and bushier.


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Riddleme that text from Ed doesn't seem quite right. I have never read infrared light having involvement when it comes to Phytochromes, Pr/Pfr, etc. Its always been Red, and Far-Red light. Far-red light peaks at 730nm. After that its Infra-red.
> 
> When you talked about greenhouses blocking out infrared light. Are you sure it wasn't talking about far-red? If you can block out the far-red, the Red/Far-Red ratio goes up, and you will end up with plants that are shorter, and bushier.


looks like I'll be doing some more research to try and verify, does not change my theory on heat though


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## DaveCoulier (Jul 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> looks like I'll be doing some more research to try and verify, does not change my theory on heat though


Id ask my buddy what his thoughts are on infra-red affecting plants, but he's too busy with school. He has access to multiple databases of scholarly journals, experiments etc. 

When I did a google search for infra-red and plant stretching, almost all the hits that came back are from marijuana forums. Odd. 

Ill be digging around as well.


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## Tarkfu (Jul 17, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Id ask my buddy what his thoughts are on infra-red affecting plants, but he's too busy with school. He has access to multiple databases of scholarly journals, experiments etc.
> 
> When I did a google search for infra-red and plant stretching, almost all the hits that came back are from marijuana forums. Odd.
> 
> Ill be digging around as well.


That's because marijuana growers are the best horticulturalists of this generation. Definitely an interesting experiment though. I started my grow around the same time, so Ill be seeing the difference between your grow and my crappy dresser grow on a parallel timeline. Will allow me to better make adjustments for my next goround I think.


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## riddleme (Jul 17, 2010)

quick update, 2 of them are now in pots 

same thing happened to #2 as far as developing trichs

the 2 I put down yesterday are showing thier little heads so should pop soon

and the runt is still trying, so will continue to let it go


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## Danielsgb (Jul 17, 2010)

I saw this a week or two ago from Stealthy's cabinet journal. I had bought my bulb after you mentioned a new experiment and Infrared. This talks about the UV-B and resin production. http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120019839/abstract
My canopy is 12" to 16" and I think it's too close. The MH or HPS didn't cause the bleached tip look. I'll get better pics in the morning. A leaf looks mutated. Kinda like 3 grew together. It seems cooler than the MH, and if it's cooler than the HPS, it's not by much. I think it would give you a sunburn given a bit too long. 
Daniels


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## riddleme (Jul 18, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I saw this a week or two ago from Stealthy's cabinet journal. I had bought my bulb after you mentioned a new experiment and Infrared. This talks about the UV-B and resin production. http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120019839/abstract
> My canopy is 12" to 16" and I think it's too close. The MH or HPS didn't cause the bleached tip look. I'll get better pics in the morning. A leaf looks mutated. Kinda like 3 grew together. It seems cooler than the MH, and if it's cooler than the HPS, it's not by much. I think it would give you a sunburn given a bit too long.
> Daniels


I have read that yes it can give you a sunburn and it can harm your eyes if you look too long at it


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## riddleme (Jul 18, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Id ask my buddy what his thoughts are on infra-red affecting plants, but he's too busy with school. He has access to multiple databases of scholarly journals, experiments etc.
> 
> When I did a google search for infra-red and plant stretching, almost all the hits that came back are from marijuana forums. Odd.
> 
> Ill be digging around as well.


everything I'm finding indicates that far red and infrared are the same thing?

here is a quote from dictionary



> (fär'r&#277;d')
> _n._
> Electromagnetic radiation having the longest wavelengths in the infrared region, between approximately 50 and 1,000 micrometers. Also called _far-infrared radiation_.


and a pic of the entire spectrum (note the little blue green yellow red in the middle, that is where we normally play)

but infrared happens right after red and before microwaves

and here is a book link that backs up what ed was saying detailing a couple of studies that were done
http://books.google.com/books?id=lvss7MQ4pOsC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=infrared+light+and+plants&source=bl&ots=bc12Jl-mH0&sig=KuZn3J3ZjfKe4br9v-Zq3R2p1Ng&hl=en&ei=aA3BS7mlLKKCnwfCxqyBBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CBoQ6AEwBjgU#v=onepage&q=infrared%20light%20and%20plants&f=false

here is a great explanation of what infrared heat is and how it benefits humans (I'm sure plants get similar benefits)
http://www.cronicfatiguerelief.com/why/what-is-infrared.html


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## riddleme (Jul 18, 2010)

Babies got thier first dark period last night of 8 hours, yes starting them off on a 16/8 will work up to 18/6 and then back down to 12/12 in small increments, noticed very minor growth and no stretching

also got a bit of the infrared heat as I was testing a plate I installed to cover the thermal protector as tipping it increased the heat to it and caused it to trip early, did not want to bypass it for safety's sake so I added a plate over it to reduce the heat it sees and that seems to be working great in the first test run


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## gumball (Jul 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I have read that yes it can give you a sunburn and it can harm your eyes if you look too long at it


could it make you sick if exposed to long? I had it running for less than 10 minutes letting it warm up in the living room with the wife and I. well the next morning we both woke with headaches, and stomach aches. had to even vomit to clear it up. i havent experienced again, but was curious if the light could do that.


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## riddleme (Jul 18, 2010)

gumball said:


> could it make you sick if exposed to long? I had it running for less than 10 minutes letting it warm up in the living room with the wife and I. well the next morning we both woke with headaches, and stomach aches. had to even vomit to clear it up. i havent experienced again, but was curious if the light could do that.


never read/heard of anything like that and would not think 10 minutes would be enough exsposure to cause harm, I have spent as much as a half hour near it while puttering and have had no ill effects


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## Danielsgb (Jul 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> never read/heard of anything like that and would not think 10 minutes would be enough exsposure to cause harm, I have spent as much as a half hour near it while puttering and have had no ill effects


10 to 15 minutes, and I kinda felt odd. Hard to describe. Wasn't any more baked than normal.


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## gumball (Jul 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> never read/heard of anything like that and would not think 10 minutes would be enough exsposure to cause harm, I have spent as much as a half hour near it while puttering and have had no ill effects





Danielsgb said:


> 10 to 15 minutes, and I kinda felt odd. Hard to describe. Wasn't any more baked than normal.


i really dont think it was the light, but it was new and we never experienced it before. we also ate the same dinner and both had some blueberries and apple juice together later, so it was either something bad, or a bug going around. i was just curious for other opinions. i am glad my case blocks it from my vision when looking at my plants though.


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## cowboylogic (Jul 18, 2010)

I would think any exposure to UV, especially visually could manifest into headaches and nausea. I would proceed with caution if I were you guys. Def. get a very good pair of UV blocking sunglasses.


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## gumball (Jul 18, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> I would think any exposure to UV, especially visually could manifest into headaches and nausea. I would proceed with caution if I were you guys. Def. get a very good pair of UV blocking sunglasses.


thanks cowboy, will def be watching it. i have been meaning to put a pair of shade in my case. my growing so bright i gotta wear shades, ya know!!!


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## cowboylogic (Jul 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> everything I'm finding indicates that far red and infrared are the same thing?
> 
> here is a quote from dictionary
> 
> ...


I am trying desperately to find an article I read a few years back. The gist of it was, without light from the UV wavelengths. The world we know today would not be as colorful and vibrant as it is. It was and is, a key component to the bio-diversity of the world that surrounds us.


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## skunkushybrid01 (Jul 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> And we will see what happens? If I am correct this will very much change the way we grow indoors


Thanks for that... I knew i'd read about this somewhere before. I'm doing a similar experiment... got some seedlings on a force flower now, and we got some super warm weather coming this week... going to be in the 90's. I'm expecting to see the seedlings begin flowering much sooner than they ordinarily would.

I see why you wanted me to follow this thread now.


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## riddleme (Jul 18, 2010)

skunkushybrid01 said:


> Thanks for that... I knew i'd read about this somewhere before. I'm doing a similar experiment... got some seedlings on a force flower now, and we got some super warm weather coming this week... going to be in the 90's. I'm expecting to see the seedlings begin flowering much sooner than they ordinarily would.
> 
> I see why you wanted me to follow this thread now.


I do need to point out that this experiment is NOT about growing in higher heat/temp conditions it is about PROPERLY adjusting the light for what the plant needs to reach it's full potential and supplimenting INFRARED HEAT (same as the sun) at the proper temp. IOW not using the light for the heat that the plant needs


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## skunkushybrid01 (Jul 18, 2010)

all heat is infra red. we can't see heat, it is below our visible range... below red.

I won't be using the light either... lol. I'm talking about the extra heat once the lights go down. Warmer nights... not warmer days


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## DaveCoulier (Jul 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> everything I'm finding indicates that far red and infrared are the same thing?
> 
> here is a quote from dictionary
> 
> ...


I think the problem is there is lots of conflicting info out there. Ive found links saying far-red is between red and infrared according to wiki. While other sources say Far-Red and Near Infra red are one in the _same_, but Far-Red and Infrared are not the same. There are multiple subdivisions of Infrared, which is why I think saying Infrared and Far-Red are the same is confusing and misleading. 

I think one may be able to say Near-Infrared and Far-Red overlap each other to an extent. Near-Infrared would appear to start at 700nm-780nm, while Far-Red starts at 700nm and ends at 780nm-800nm. Beyond 800nm we are definitely in the infrared spectrum. 

Lots of confusing info out there.


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## riddleme (Jul 18, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> I think the problem is there is lots of conflicting info out there. Ive found links saying far-red is between red and infrared according to wiki. While other sources say Far-Red and Near Infra red are one in the same, but Far-Red and Infrared are not the same. There are multiple subdivisions of Infra-red, which is why I think saying Infrared and Far-Red are the same is confusing and misleading.
> 
> With all Ive read so far, I think saying Near Infrared and Far-Red are the same would be a fair assessment. Alot of the stuff Ive looked at say Far-Red starts at 700nm, which is often the same for when Near-Infra red begins.


I have to agree, I think we can find things that would support any theory if we look long enough, or look with a closed mind, but as I said earlier it really does not affect the experiment as it relates to adding heat to allow for proper light adjustments with heat suplimentation

so I think I will simply follow the path and see where it leads???


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## Illumination (Jul 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I have to agree, I think we can find things that would support any theory if we look long enough, or look with a closed mind, but as I said earlier it really does not affect the experiment as it relates to adding heat to allow for proper light adjustments with heat suplimentation
> 
> so I think I will simply follow the path and see where it leads???


I might suggest that "we" identify what the particular frequencies are which "we" believe to cause the effects we are looking for and speak in the terminology of frequencies rather than hoping the vernacular accurately conveys what exactly we are referring to as to far red and what are infrared.

Hello Dave, I wish to take the time to tell you that I have lurked for quite a while before ever writing anything and I am pleased to see you in our lil "fold"... I have found you very knowledgeable and wise as to growing etc. as it seems with the rest of the friends gathered here. There will be great learning sharing of good accurate info along with an abundance of common sense to make it work. This is coming together awesomely Mr. Riddle as Dave's as well as Desert's, Cowboy's, hell everyone's presence affirms. We need UB to pop up now

Namaste'
"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


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## desertrat (Jul 18, 2010)

It has been my experience that open minds lead to full wallets.

I was serious about investing in a light meter company.


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## SensiStan (Jul 18, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> I think the problem is there is lots of conflicting info out there. Ive found links saying far-red is between red and infrared according to wiki. While other sources say Far-Red and Near Infra red are one in the _same_, but Far-Red and Infrared are not the same. There are multiple subdivisions of Infrared, which is why I think saying Infrared and Far-Red are the same is confusing and misleading.
> 
> I think one may be able to say Near-Infrared and Far-Red overlap each other to an extent. Near-Infrared would appear to start at 700nm-780nm, while Far-Red starts at 700nm and ends at 780nm-800nm. Beyond 800nm we are definitely in the infrared spectrum.
> 
> Lots of confusing info out there.


My understanding of it, and i think i might be right. Is that Infra red and Far red are one and the same sorta. As you said Dave there are many different types of infra red. Far-red simply indicates the far end of the red spectrum which as you correctly said manifensts itself in the form of heat whereas Infra red couldent generate the tiniest bit of heat.

Heres where i get my info i'm rather sure these guys know what theyre on about even if it is for kids sometimes that makes it easier  

http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/infrared.html


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## DaveCoulier (Jul 18, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> My understanding of it, and i think i might be right. Is that Infra red and Far red are one and the same sorta. As you said Dave there are many different types of infra red. Far-red simply indicates the far end of the red spectrum which as you correctly said manifensts itself in the form of heat whereas Infra red couldent generate the tiniest bit of heat.
> 
> Heres where i get my info i'm rather sure these guys know what theyre on about even if it is for kids sometimes that makes it easier
> 
> http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/infrared.html


I came across that link earlier when googling . 

Im not sure where I mentioned heat in that post you quoted. Plus infrared does generate heat, or were you referring to near infrared?


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## Illumination (Jul 18, 2010)

desertrat said:


> It has been my experience that open minds lead to full wallets.
> 
> I was serious about investing in a light meter company.


Hell why not develop our own and get some Chinese giant to make it for us dirt cheap and we'll all do awesome?

Left an idea on your thread for one

Namaste'
"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


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## desertrat (Jul 18, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Hell why not develop our own and get some Chinese giant to make it for us dirt cheap and we'll all awesome?


Been there, done that. Do things for fun now. Doesn't mean others can't take the ideas.


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## farmboss (Jul 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> The spectrum of most HPS lights sucks IMO as far as plants are concerned and the plant can only process so much light.


whoa, my HPS light and plants would beg to differ. no need for anything but an HPS. 

when was the last time you saw a deficiency guide and they said "your problem is only using an HPS light"... never.

also, the people on this forum who say shit like "400watts? thats your problem, you need at least 1000" would also probably argue that anything under 800 is never too much (given proper distance from light)


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## cowboylogic (Jul 18, 2010)

farmboss said:


> whoa, my HPS light and plants would beg to differ. no need for anything but an HPS.
> 
> when was the last time you saw a deficiency guide and they said "your problem is only using an HPS light"... never.
> 
> also, the people on this forum who say shit like "400watts? thats your problem, you need at least 1000" would also probably argue that anything under 800 is never too much (given proper distance from light)


ha........


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## Illumination (Jul 18, 2010)

desertrat said:


> Been there, done that. Do things for fun now. Doesn't mean others can't take the ideas.


Well as you were "seriously" considering investing in a meter company I just figured why not do it yourself?


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## desertrat (Jul 18, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Well as you were "seriously" considering investing in a meter company I just figured why not do it yourself?


 Too lazy to do the homework. Honestly, this is more fun than making money, you tend to make enemies when you make money.


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 18, 2010)

farmboss said:


> whoa, my HPS light and plants would beg to differ. no need for anything but an HPS.
> 
> when was the last time you saw a deficiency guide and they said "your problem is only using an HPS light"... never.
> 
> also, the people on this forum who say shit like "400watts? thats your problem, you need at least 1000" would also probably argue that anything under 800 is never too much (given proper distance from light)


How, exactly, do you KNOW your plants beg to differ? Have you run the HPS side by side with CMH? Until then, sorry Bo, you don't know diddly !

Riddleme has done extensive research, as he would say 'shoving lumens up the plants ass don't make it grow'. I'll take 2 400w CMH over a 1000w HPS anyday !

It's very very easy to see, when you look at PAR values and spectrums.


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## Illumination (Jul 18, 2010)

desertrat said:


> Too lazy to do the homework. Honestly, this is more fun than making money, you tend to make enemies when you make money.


Agreed and fully related to

Namaste'
"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


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## OZUT (Jul 18, 2010)

scribed to read later


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## SensiStan (Jul 19, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> I came across that link earlier when googling .
> 
> Im not sure where I mentioned heat in that post you quoted. Plus infrared does generate heat, or were you referring to near infrared?


Was reffering to near infra-red, and going back over what i wrote last night i cant help but notice you havent said anything about heat. I think i replied to 2 posts in one while high lol.


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## skunkushybrid01 (Jul 19, 2010)

Infra red is heat. Infra red is quite literally just another name for heat. when we say... oh, it's hot today... what we actually mean is that we are receiving lots of infra red from the sun.

I wrote a thread a few years ago now on how blue light is actually preferred by plants than red. Each blue photon is worth more to the plant than a red one is. Blue photons are more potent, each blue photon will give a plant far more energy than a red one.

Plants have never preferred red light to flower, indeed plants had to evolve a relationship with chlorophylls to harvest the red light as they do not do it naturally. Chlorophylls are also adept at handling blue light too, it is believed that plants only gained this symbiotic relationship with the chlorophylls (nobody knows exactly where the chlorophylls came from) as the sun puts out a lot of red light. red light is weak, but plentiful... so plants adapted to harvest it too. Doesn't mean they prefer it... just means that there is more red light in the plants natural habitat.

a 400w MH is of more value than a 400w HPS photon for photon... the only difference from our perspective is that a MH lamp puts out more heat and the bulbs don't last as long. The thing to remember is that blue light equals light quality, red light equals light quantity. Red has more lumens but they are much weaker lumens.


at the end of the day though.. a photon is a photon... and so long as the plant is getting enough for optimum growth then it will grow optimally, no matter if it is red, blue or a mixture. However, i would suggest that some green light is needed as it has been proven that seedlings grow better with supplemented green light. The green light apparently offsets completely the slight irradiance caused by the effects of blue and red light, either or. Of course this irradiance is normally counteracted by the benefits of photosynthesis, but it is still an irradiance that makes a difference on growth.

Of course i'm now steeled, ready for all the newbs at this site to start screaming that i don't know what i'm talking about.


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## gumball (Jul 19, 2010)

skunkushybrid01 said:


> Infra red is heat. Infra red is quite literally just another name for heat. when we say... oh, it's hot today... what we actually mean is that we are receiving lots of infra red from the sun.
> 
> I wrote a thread a few years ago now on how blue light is actually preferred by plants than red. Each blue photon is worth more to the plant than a red one is. Blue photons are more potent, each blue photon will give a plant far more energy than a red one.
> 
> ...


Very interesting post! I would not say you don't know what you are talking about, as I don't know either!! But the "newbs" should not either and shouldn't call u out on it. What your post did do is get the minds of us open minded growers that are not afraid of going against the grain to thinking about how accurate your post is. The CMH bulb and its use for the full life cycle gives your post a little more credence because it has a lot more blue (from what I have seen), puts off more energy, and provides as good of results as the red lighted HPS while producing less light output, but yet more "useable energy" for the plant. The green light really intrigued me. I could run a test of a seedling undder nothing but green, and one under blue and see the difference, would be interesting.


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## skunkushybrid01 (Jul 19, 2010)

gumball said:


> Very interesting post! I would not say you don't know what you are talking about, as I don't know either!! But the "newbs" should not either and shouldn't call u out on it. What your post did do is get the minds of us open minded growers that are not afraid of going against the grain to thinking about how accurate your post is. The CMH bulb and its use for the full life cycle gives your post a little more credence because it has a lot more blue (from what I have seen), puts off more energy, and provides as good of results as the red lighted HPS while producing less light output, but yet more "useable energy" for the plant. The green light really intrigued me. I could run a test of a seedling undder nothing but green, and one under blue and see the difference, would be interesting.



Yeah i know i'm not the most accurate of people, i don't have a background in sciences. I find sharing what i do know encourages others to share what they know and this in itself can often teach me something new. I fully realise my understanding of things could be slightly skewed. 

I've been wanting to do a green light grow for quite some time now. plants in the ocean have adapted to harvest green light, even plants on the floor of deep forests. as the canopies are so high this blocks out a lot of the light, so plants lower down learn to scavenge whatever photons they can. Even going so far as to harvest reflected green light from other plants.

the test i'm talking about though was done a few years ago and it proved that plants vegetated with supplemental green light alongside blue or red light off set the irradiance caused by red and blue light and plants grew better, stronger. I can't find that actual paper again now but here's something i just dug up from springerlink:



> We report on the response of dry plant seeds to their irradiation with intense green light applied at biostimulatory doses. Red and near-infrared light delivered by lasers or arrays of light emitting diodes applied at such doses have been shown previously by us to have effects on mammalian cells. Effects include cell proliferation and elevation of cell vitality, and have practical applications in various biomedical fields. Growth processes induced by photoreceptor stimulation (phytochromes and cryptochromes) in plant seeds with green light were described so far only for imbibed seeds. In this paper, we show that irradiation of dry cress, radish and carrot seeds with intense green light (laser or arrays of light emitting diodes), applied at biostimulatory doses, resulted in a significant increase in biomass&#8212;14, 26, and 71 days after seeding, respectively. In the case of radish and carrot, the irradiation led to important changes in the root-to-foliage surface ratio. Seeds with a potential to grant growth acceleration could be of special interest in agricultural applications, and could even compensate for shorter growth seasons caused by climate change.


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## DaveCoulier (Jul 19, 2010)

skunkushybrid01 said:


> Infra red is heat. Infra red is quite literally just another name for heat. when we say... oh, it's hot today... what we actually mean is that we are receiving lots of infra red from the sun.
> 
> I wrote a thread a few years ago now on how blue light is actually preferred by plants than red. Each blue photon is worth more to the plant than a red one is. Blue photons are more potent, each blue photon will give a plant far more energy than a red one.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you'll probably be labeled a heretic for saying plants use green light, but its true folks!

I came across an excerpt from a study recently that documented chloroplasts actually reorienting themselves towards a green light source after it was moved from over head to along side the leafs.

I think a buddy did a writeup about green light, but unfortunately its only available at a site that is very strict on who can become a member. If I can get a copy of it from him, I will share it with you.


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## skunkushybrid01 (Jul 19, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Yeah, you'll probably be labeled a heretic for saying plants use green light, but its true folks!
> 
> I came across an excerpt from a study recently that documented chloroplasts actually reorienting themselves towards a green light source after it was moved from over head to along side the leafs.
> 
> I think a buddy did a writeup about green light, but unfortunately its only available at a site that is very strict on who can become a member. If I can get a copy of it from him, I will share it with you.


Yeah that'd be great. I only bother with 2 sites now and this is the second one. Are you talking about canna cabanna? I had an account with those years ago but i can't remember the handle there now. Back then they were trying to hide unsuccessfully from google. i didn't really participate at the site much though. so maybe they just deleted my account when they had the shake up.


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## DaveCoulier (Jul 19, 2010)

skunkushybrid01 said:


> Yeah that'd be great. I only bother with 2 sites now and this is the second one. Are you talking about canna cabanna? I had an account with those years ago but i can't remember the handle there now. Back then they were trying to hide unsuccessfully from google. i didn't really participate at the site much though. so maybe they just deleted my account when they had the shake up.


Yeah thats the same site. He's a hell of a smart guy and really contributes to any site he's at. He's got some good threads there, but I can't access them since he's got to be a member for 6 months before I can be nominated by him .


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## skunkushybrid01 (Jul 19, 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much about it... doubtless once you join you'll spend more time here anyway. lol.

Here's one of my old threads on this from back in 2008:

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/49317-effects-green-light-plant-growth.html


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## BIGDAVE (Jul 19, 2010)

subscribed. Riddleme, I have been following your "I make it rain" posts and have gainded a wealth of knowledge. Thanks


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## riddleme (Jul 20, 2010)

BIGDAVE said:


> subscribed. Riddleme, I have been following your "I make it rain" posts and have gainded a wealth of knowledge. Thanks


as always your very welcome


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## riddleme (Jul 20, 2010)

Until I see sex, there is no reason to name them so will just number them in the order they went into the garden, so far we have 1,2 & 3 with the NL special getting to be #4 tonight and I will get some more pics up

the one I have been calling the runt still not doing anything and the other seed I put down seems to be acting the same way (tap root popped but then nothing?) 

#1 was planted a full day before #2 and #2 was planted 12 hours before #3 but both 2 & 3 have caught up to #1 in terms of growth and size they all 3 now have the start of thier 2nd node, I am waiting to see how internode spacing looks with the CMH?

they are still on 16/8 at the moment and light is 32 inches away


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 20, 2010)

Right on for the update. Damn runts !


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## bigman4270 (Jul 20, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Right on for the update. Damn runts !


Ya, what he said!


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## cowboylogic (Jul 20, 2010)

Sometimes those runts end up being asskickers............ And being its the balls to the wall journal. Maybe the wives names of the members of AC/DC?


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## riddleme (Jul 20, 2010)

Well I'll leave em go another few days, to see if anything happens???

and it's not easy getting an update with all the conversations going LOL


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## bigman4270 (Jul 20, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Well I'll leave em go another few days, to see if anything happens???
> 
> and it's not easy getting an update with all the conversations going LOL


Thats why I love your threads bro, everyone's welcome.


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## gumball (Jul 20, 2010)

Sorry for all the conversation riddle! I know its distracting!


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## Danielsgb (Jul 20, 2010)

I swear the node spacing on my veg table is closer under the CMH vs. MH. Riddleme, you have me *SOLD* on them.
Daniels


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## gumball (Jul 20, 2010)

I agree daniels. I am starting my 2nd node since switching to CMH, and 4th node total and it is less than an inch from top to bottom of growth, and I still have solid green coty's at 14 days old! Thanks again riddle, for all you do. I'll +rep but it will never give you the thanks you deserve!


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## cowboylogic (Jul 20, 2010)

Is it just the CMH or are you also paying attention to Riddles advice on light height/position? Gotta remember. No such thing as 'Fairy Dust' when growing.


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## gumball (Jul 20, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Is it just the CMH or are you also paying attention to Riddles advice on light height/position? Gotta remember. No such thing as 'Fairy Dust' when growing.


It could be! Mine are about 4 inches from light. This is my first HID grow to start with, so I don't know what to expect... I like it so far!


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## cowboylogic (Jul 20, 2010)

Gumball got his cherry popped! Cool beans, you will never be the same. Happy Trails..........


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## gumball (Jul 20, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Gumball got his cherry popped! Cool beans, you will never be the same. Happy Trails..........


HAHAHA!! its great already. it maybe small, but its way better than what I had!!!


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## riddleme (Jul 20, 2010)

Yeah there is no doubt CMH is the bomb, like I've been saying, mine are 3 days old and all showing 2nd node space is just 1/8 inch (or less) but they are still just babies, all of them have sugar already, they love the UV, but I can see positive new growth everyday.

something else I have noticed is the light warms the floor, I go down there barefoot and the concrete floor is cold (as you would expect) until I get over by the plants where the lights shines on the floor it is warm, which I find wierd cause it is over 5 feet off the floor???


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## riddleme (Jul 20, 2010)

We are off and running

have not planted #4 yet as I like to wait till the stem is almost 2 inches, I then plant 1 inch of it in the soil. So I'm thinking we'll be there tomorrow


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 20, 2010)

Tell em to hurry up, I'm getting impatient !


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## desertrat (Jul 20, 2010)

riddleme said:


> We are off and running
> 
> have not planted #4 yet as I like to wait till the stem is almost 2 inches, I then plant 1 inch of it in the soil. So I'm thinking we'll be there tomorrow


 they're so cute before they start stinking


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## Danielsgb (Jul 20, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Is it just the CMH or are you also paying attention to Riddles advice on light height/position? Gotta remember. No such thing as 'Fairy Dust' when growing.


Well, I had a MH on my Veg table, then put my HPS in while waiting for the CMH bulb to check temps. I follw most of Riddleme's advice in general. The only thing I've changed with the CMH is every third watering they get Pro-teKt, and I had to move the bulb higher. There is definitely no 'Fairy Dust'. But that said, the growth on my 6 plants on the Veg table is noticeably increased. I'm still learning, and am a couple days from my first harvest in many years, but this bulb makes me have even higher hopes for coming crops.
Daniels


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## Old Goat (Jul 20, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Well, I had a MH on my Veg table, then put my HPS in while waiting for the CMH bulb to check temps. I follw most of Riddleme's advice in general. The only thing I've changed with the CMH is every third watering they get Pro-teKt, and I had to move the bulb higher. There is definitely no 'Fairy Dust'. But that said, the growth on my 6 plants on the Veg table is noticeably increased. I'm still learning, and am a couple days from my first harvest in many years, but this bulb makes me have even higher hopes for coming crops.
> Daniels


In my reading it sounds as though you've had to raise your light due to heat? I'll have to do a rerun on your new journal. But with my 400W my plants grow to within mear inches of the light. I will say I've made use of air movement. My space is 48 cu. ft.my room in never more than 7 degrees from the outer run. I have four fans inside 4" from Wally World. I'd suggest if you have room or a way put a small fan at the reflector and blow that cool air. That's what's gotten me thru.


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## Old Goat (Jul 20, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Yeah there is no doubt CMH is the bomb, like I've been saying, mine are 3 days old and all showing 2nd node space is just 1/8 inch (or less) but they are still just babies, all of them have sugar already, they love the UV, but I can see positive new growth everyday.
> 
> something else I have noticed is the light warms the floor, I go down there barefoot and the concrete floor is cold (as you would expect) until I get over by the plants where the lights shines on the floor it is warm, which I find wierd cause it is over 5 feet off the floor???


I'm following your journals like a little puppy but I don't pee on the floor. Well at my age I may be and just don't know it. 
Great Idea!! I've had this one running around my head sense the early 70's. One thing and it's the issue that stumped me and that is how to figure the rotation of the earth on it's axis to the sun. As we do it now we think our best grows come from "High Noon" but that's not all of nature. I think of how big inner growth might increase our take if we just figured in the rotation? Showering light from the side to the plants?? It may not be more weight but just (hopefully) maybe quality. I Know you're trying to mimic nature and I praise you for your work and followers. I learn too much


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## riddleme (Jul 21, 2010)

They are all in dirt now, once the 2nd node has fully grown out I will give em thier first rain (and this is for the newbies) until then I water in a circle around the plant to encourage root development knowing that once the 2nd node has grown out that there is a good start on the root system


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## goofygolfer (Jul 22, 2010)

i ll be following along . lots of good info here esp. about the cmh


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## gumball (Jul 22, 2010)

riddleme said:


> They are all in dirt now, once the 2nd node has fully grown out I will give em thier first rain (and this is for the newbies) until then I water in a circle around the plant to encourage root development knowing that once the 2nd node has grown out that there is a good start on the root system


when you make it rain, you give about 3 times the pot size with plain water, right? but how much water & nutes do you use? Just enough to see run off then stop, or more? a question i have wanted to ask and kept forgetting.


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## bigv1976 (Jul 22, 2010)

I am amazed that you mentioned watering a cicle around your plants to promote root growth. I have never read that but I do it too!!!!


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## riddleme (Jul 22, 2010)

gumball said:


> when you make it rain, you give about 3 times the pot size with plain water, right? but how much water & nutes do you use? Just enough to see run off then stop, or more? a question i have wanted to ask and kept forgetting.


2 to 3 times to make it rain then nutes till minor runoff is correct


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## riddleme (Jul 22, 2010)

babies got thier first rain this morning, expect a growth spurt now, we will see?


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## Illumination (Jul 22, 2010)

riddleme said:


> babies got thier first rain this morning, expect a growth spurt now, we will see?


Awesome! Can't wait to see what "rain" will do when done from babies...cool

Namaste'
"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"

ps-sent you a couple of pm's


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## gumball (Jul 22, 2010)

riddleme said:


> 2 to 3 times to make it rain then nutes till minor runoff is correct


Thank you Riddleme! But what did you mean by the runoff being correct? Are you looking for ph, color? I have always done the 2-3 times to make it rain, but only use about the same water as pot size for nutes. I don't check runoff for ph, and its always slight brown in color. Kinda like a nasty lookin beer!


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## gumball (Jul 22, 2010)

riddleme said:


> babies got thier first rain this morning, expect a growth spurt now, we will see?


Can't wait Riddleme, this is where things start to get interesting!!

Hey, I was reading where a fellow did a grow with 250 HPS, and 250 CMH, just for flower I think. Said he pulled bout 20% more from the HPS grow. I will hit him up with some questions for specifics, though I thought this would interest you.


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## deprave (Jul 22, 2010)

Hey riddleme I am subbed most definitely..I am still reading this thread on the fourth page so far ...what is this "make it rain people keep talking about"


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## riddleme (Jul 22, 2010)

gumball said:


> Thank you Riddleme! But what did you mean by the runoff being correct? Are you looking for ph, color? I have always done the 2-3 times to make it rain, but only use about the same water as pot size for nutes. I don't check runoff for ph, and its always slight brown in color. Kinda like a nasty lookin beer!


I was simply saying that YOU were correct, feed nutes till you get minor runoff and I only check ph if there is a problem



gumball said:


> Can't wait Riddleme, this is where things start to get interesting!!
> 
> Hey, I was reading where a fellow did a grow with 250 HPS, and 250 CMH, just for flower I think. Said he pulled bout 20% more from the HPS grow. I will hit him up with some questions for specifics, though I thought this would interest you.


I have heard that the yield is less with CMH but that the quality is better, but this is also one of the reasons for the infrared experiment cause I believe heat is what makes the difference, I could be wrong, but we will see???



deprave said:


> Hey riddleme I am subbed most definitely..I am still reading this thread on the fourth page so far ...what is this "make it rain people keep talking about"


I flush everytime I water and I ph it to 5.8 (similar to the ph of rain) hence my method is called making it rain it is detailed in my calling all noob growers thread (sig link)


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## deprave (Jul 22, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I flush everytime I water and I ph it to 5.8 (similar to the ph of rain) hence my method is called making it rain it is detailed in my calling all noob growers thread (sig link)


 Hmm that is interesting, I am doing something like that - Every 4 to 5 days I am watering the pot size in PH'd water and then the following day water the pot size in PH water w/nutes....then wait 4-5 days (whichever day they dry out first) and repeat..Treating each plant individualy based on needs but that is basically the rotation I got going right now...some are more thirsty/hungry then others especially cause I got about 10 different strains right now :0 - I will have to dig it up in your 100+ page thread thanks


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## jpknowmad (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm subbed for this one. I have a CMH journal going as well. I'm only a few weeks in. I'm at 400CMH now and will be adding a second into the growzilla when I flip the lights Aug 15th.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/348223-800w-cmh-growzilla.html


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## riddleme (Jul 24, 2010)

has been a week since the 1st one was put in dirt (which is when I start my count)

you will see that they loved getting rained on (soil is almost dry, one more day) they are starting on the 3rd node and 2nd node is growing it's 3 fingers also the internodal spacing is less than 1/2 inch

they are still on 16/8 and the light is still at 32 inches

#4 is still playing catch up (has not had it rain yet) but is doing great


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 24, 2010)

Lookin Good RM3 !


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## gumball (Jul 24, 2010)

looks good riddle! does it matter if the nutes come before the rain, or should the rain come first? i know after the 2nd round it wont matter anymore, nust curious if there was a ryhme to the reason!!


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## riddleme (Jul 24, 2010)

gumball said:


> looks good riddle! does it matter if the nutes come before the rain, or should the rain come first? i know after the 2nd round it wont matter anymore, nust curious if there was a ryhme to the reason!!


just so everyone knows I am not feeding nutes at this stage (there are plenty in the soil for the first several weeks)

you must make it rain first, this flushes out any excess nutes in the medium

then you feed adding nutes back in, the plant will not use all of them hence the rain to wash them out

now I should say that some add nutes to the last bit of water when it rains, but I do not do this


----------



## echonc (Jul 24, 2010)

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and research with the community, I have been following your threads and learned alot. Im along for the ride.


----------



## riddleme (Jul 24, 2010)

echonc said:


> Thanks for sharing your knowledge and research with the community, I have been following your threads and learned alot. Im along for the ride.


welcome, glad it is helping you


----------



## gumball (Jul 24, 2010)

ok, thank you


----------



## Illumination (Jul 24, 2010)

riddleme said:


> has been a week since the 1st one was put in dirt (which is when I start my count)
> 
> you will see that they loved getting rained on (soil is almost dry, one more day) they are starting on the 3rd node and 2nd node is growing it's 3 fingers also the internodal spacing is less than 1/2 inch
> 
> ...





Looking good teach!

Namaste'

"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


----------



## riddleme (Jul 24, 2010)

yeah I wanted to be a smartass and type "Do you think they look too small for thier age" I love those post where they are in a window sill in MG soil getting watered everyday and it ask is there a problem?


----------



## Illumination (Jul 24, 2010)

riddleme said:


> yeah I wanted to be a smartass and type "Do you think they look too small for thier age" I love those post where they are in a window sill in MG soil getting watered everyday and it ask is there a problem?


ROTFLMFAO! And you need to get some foil on the walls for the light!!

Namaste'


----------



## riddleme (Jul 24, 2010)

Illumination said:


> ROTFLMFAO! And you need to get some foil on the walls for the light!!
> 
> Namaste'


No I want to wrap the little stems with tin foil in the shape of little satilite dishes so they can suck the photons right out of the air


----------



## gumball (Jul 24, 2010)

riddleme said:


> No I want to wrap the little stems with tin foil in the shape of little satilite dishes so they can suck the photons right out of the air


pretty good idea, dont let any newbs steal it from you and make the next cannibis cultivation success!!


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## Danielsgb (Jul 24, 2010)

Hey Riddleme, I got the 150W CMH in the fridge. I'm close to putting 1 or 2 in there. See what you think when you have free time.
Daniels


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## bigman4270 (Jul 24, 2010)

riddleme said:


> yeah I wanted to be a smartass and type "Do you think they look too small for thier age" I love those post where they are in a window sill in MG soil getting watered everyday and it ask is there a problem?


I read one this morniong that said!

*advice on growing from seed outdoors? *
*We are super-newbies at this. My hubby had collected a dozen seeds or so and we planted them in a long pot outside using a good quality soil and compost. 6 of the seeds took but after about 5 weeks the plants are still very small (between 3-5 inches tall). Should they be bigger by now? Starting to panic because we live in Canada and only have another 6 weeks of truely hot weather. Indoors is not an option for us. I am going to transfer them to a larger pot and didn't know if I should do anything special with the soil we will be adding. Other than fertilizer do we really need to do anything fancy like cloning or pollinating because that is way over heads being our first try. Any advice is appreciated - thanks.*​Thought this made the cut. 
Big
*dmd* ​


----------



## Danielsgb (Jul 24, 2010)

I saw that one and wondered where you would start to even answer that one. Pollinating or cloning seemed like quite a plan for an outdoor Canadian crop to me.


----------



## bigman4270 (Jul 24, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I saw that one and wondered where you would start to even answer that one. Pollinating or cloning seemed like quite a plan for an outdoor Canadian crop to me.


I pointed her to riddles noob thread and told her to start there and then read everything in his sig link. Then I told her it looked like she was not gonna make it before winter.


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## riddleme (Jul 25, 2010)

Babies got thier second rain this morning, this time with molasses (need to feed the herd) all but #4 as it is still not ready for rain, it got another circle water (also w/molasses) 

I am starting to see pheno differences between the 3 NL #1's 

#2 is the biggest most vigorous (though planted 2nd) 

#1 & #2 have similar internodal spacing

#3 has shorter/tighter internodal spacing (about half as much)

interesting to watch them develope as I decide what I'm breeding for


----------



## bigman4270 (Jul 25, 2010)

Right on brother, thannk's for the update.

Peace

Big


----------



## Rocky Mountain High (Jul 25, 2010)

Can I get odds today on males and females?

I'm hedging my early bet that number 2 is going to be a male. 

Right on Riddleme


----------



## riddleme (Jul 25, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Can I get odds today on males and females?
> 
> I'm hedging my early bet that number 2 is going to be a male.
> 
> Right on Riddleme


and I would vote for #3 at this point

if #2 is a male then so is #1, they are practically identical


----------



## riddleme (Jul 25, 2010)

Last night I started adding minutes to the light cycle, will be adding 15 everyday till I get to 18/6

also they just got thier first dose of the infrared, I increased the temp by 2 degrees which puts it up to 82

doing the hand thing I can feel the heat very comfortably, however when I put my face down by the plant it feels like I am standing in the sun, gonna be interesting to see how they respond


----------



## gumball (Jul 25, 2010)

that is interesting. now you now where to go and take a nap. just go bask in your artificial sun heat downstairs!!


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## riddleme (Jul 25, 2010)

yeah the best part is for the first time with this setup I am in complete control of the temps, can raise or lower as I want


----------



## deprave (Jul 25, 2010)

Excited to see the results, this could be a good device for growing in cold climates


----------



## gumball (Jul 25, 2010)

you are the god of your basement!!

maybe father nature!


----------



## riddleme (Jul 25, 2010)

Let us visit my tomatos once again cause I got questions for ya?

went out this mornin and one of them was drooping 

it had rained twice this week so I was surprised to see this, anyway I watered em and within 10 minutes it had perked back up except for one little branch (there is a pic) 

I decided to take some pics and ask a question

in the pics you see several problems I have the one droopy stem, I have bug damage, I have moisture stress (curling leaf) I have bird poop The pics that do not have anything circled are there to show overall healthyness and if you look back at the last batch of pics you will see they have grown a lot

the question,,,,,

is any of this a problem with my maters???


----------



## gumball (Jul 25, 2010)

my take is yes and no. nothing wrong with the fruit, but the plant may be in a spot which gives it more rain water, and it has been rained on to much. i see the shade so I assume that maybe the branches above are formed above the maters, and one of the branches may runoff more water to that one plant. unless the problems are scattered amongst all plants, then maybe it is still the too much water.


----------



## riddleme (Jul 25, 2010)

the drooping was from being underwatered, they are wanting water every 2 days now


----------



## gumball (Jul 25, 2010)

Oh, so them getting more rain has made them want more? Ok, I thought they may have had too much, but with this heat I understand


----------



## riddleme (Jul 25, 2010)

The point I was trying to make is that NO, none of what is in those pics is a problem, the maters are healthy and growing vigorously everyday, they have fruit on them and it is doing fine,,,,IOW I am not a bit worried about them

so why is a brown spot on a MJ leaf such a big deal???


----------



## gumball (Jul 25, 2010)

Uh, its not


----------



## riddleme (Jul 25, 2010)

gumball said:


> Uh, its not


I know that you know this LOL

I wrote the post with the noob's in mind, seems once again lots of folks are reading without posting

so as always I'm still teachin


----------



## Danielsgb (Jul 25, 2010)

I kept looking at those pics trying to see the problem. For the life of me I couldn't see where you were going. Glad to see I wasn't missing anything.
Daniels


----------



## gumball (Jul 25, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I know that you know this LOL
> 
> I wrote the post with the noob's in mind, seems once again lots of folks are reading without posting
> 
> so as always I'm still teachin


Well actually I thought you were trying to teach that every little sympton is not a major problem. So I got myself caught up.


----------



## Illumination (Jul 25, 2010)

gumball said:


> Well actually I thought you were trying to teach that every little sympton is not a major problem. So I got myself caught up.


IMHHO that was exactly his point...it was just meant for those lurkers that do not know but need to...to hopefully get them to "pipe up" and participate...as in my experience greatly enhances the learning and shortens the curve... but then again I am stoned so who knows

Namaste'

"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


----------



## riddleme (Jul 25, 2010)

The point is that each and every living thing has a life, no matter how short. 

And in that life are experiences and a purpose

a broken arm, a broken branch

a bee sting, a bug bite

it all makes us smarter and tougher

plants adapt, as we do, to that which is around us

in the end we each fulfil our purpose

and grow from the experience

there is no greater joy in this life than understanding and sharing it


----------



## gumball (Jul 25, 2010)

so "pay attention" so we will all be more prepared to grow from the experience


----------



## Illumination (Jul 25, 2010)

riddleme said:


> The point is that each and every living thing has a life, no matter how short.
> 
> And in that life are experiences and a purpose
> 
> ...


Thats beautiful...for real...thank you

Namaste'

"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


----------



## desertrat (Jul 25, 2010)

riddleme said:


> The point is that each and every living thing has a life, no matter how short.
> 
> And in that life are experiences and a purpose
> 
> ...


still speechless


----------



## Delux83 (Jul 25, 2010)

man bro just catching up missed out on two days everything looks great, really interested to see how they respond to the infared


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## legalizeitcanada (Jul 26, 2010)

riddleme said:


> The point is that each and every living thing has a life, no matter how short.
> 
> And in that life are experiences and a purpose
> 
> ...


Philosopher, poet, teacher..eh! Awesome dude! Great Analogy and Quote!


----------



## riddleme (Jul 26, 2010)

you guys are to kind, I was merely pointing out the obvious


----------



## riddleme (Jul 26, 2010)

wanted to show the effects of makin it rain to those that are lurkin, I know those of you that follow me are already doing this so you know how crazy they can grow

but it is monday morning, took the week 1 update pics on Sat morning (so 2 days ago) the plants will be ready for another rain tomorrow so raining every 3 days at this early age (gonna have me some monsters)

So I only took a pic of #2 and a group shot this morning will repost the same pics from Sat so you can compare


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## gumball (Jul 26, 2010)

will you try to lower your light any? I remember that the lumen output was pretty high where it is now, just didn't know if you thought About lowering.


----------



## jumboSWISHER (Jul 26, 2010)

hell yea. that is quite a growth spurt riddle!
been lurking, lol. awesome philosophy! 
but i been busy with my flowering room. think you could stop by my journal n see if you have ne ideas on efficient organized way to raise my clones closer to the lights. kinda stumped, think i just need someones else's opinion lol 
but like i said, been lurking, there looking great man!


https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/351109-time-get-busy-1000hps-400mh.html


----------



## riddleme (Jul 26, 2010)

gumball said:


> will you try to lower your light any? I remember that the lumen output was pretty high where it is now, just didn't know if you thought About lowering.


No I will not be lowering it any, gonna let the plants grow into it, so will not be raising it either


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## riddleme (Jul 26, 2010)

jumboSWISHER said:


> hell yea. that is quite a growth spurt riddle!
> been lurking, lol. awesome philosophy!
> but i been busy with my flowering room. think you could stop by my journal n see if you have ne ideas on efficient organized way to raise my clones closer to the lights. kinda stumped, think i just need someones else's opinion lol
> but like i said, been lurking, there looking great man!
> ...


Will check it out tonight, have to go to work now


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## riddleme (Jul 26, 2010)

well another 1/2 inch of growth today while I was at work, they will get rain (plain water) again tomorrow morning and they are big enough now that it will start to get interesting as this rain/grow train pulls out of the station

#4 will get 1st rain tomorrow and should catch up pretty soon being just a couple behind

it is so much more fun to see after being at work then checking them several times a day (which I normally do not do, but did yesterday simply because I had turned the heater on)

gonna wait till Sat for more pics I believe they should double in size by then so should be worth the wait


----------



## riddleme (Jul 27, 2010)

Let's talk about dish soap

I made it rain this morning and I added a drop of Ivory liquid dish soap to the water, I do this every so often to keep the soil from compacting and forming dry pockets, here is a copy of a question I answered several weeks ago

you want a non-ionic dish soap such as ivory or palmalive for plants, which has many uses but as a wetting agent (surfactant) it either allows things to stick to the plant for prolonged benefit or aids in clearing dry pockets in soil 

Anybody else know of other uses to share???


----------



## gumball (Jul 27, 2010)

I have read it helps with some bugs, but nothing definitive.


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## bobhamm (Jul 27, 2010)

gumball said:


> I have read it helps with some bugs, but nothing definitive.


used it outside in my garden for years, whiteflies,aphids etc... also a couple drops of olive oil helps too(bugs) just spray the mix on the plants and any critters you see... doesnt work on dogs or cats though 
OH! make sure its not anti-bacterial dish soap!


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## gumball (Jul 27, 2010)

So non-ionic & non-antibacterial, got it! And a splash of olive oil for taste!


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## legalizeitcanada (Jul 27, 2010)

I've been told that if you have spider mites you can spay you plant down with dish soap........since they are so small, the soap coats them so they can't move or breathe and which in turn kills em. Never tried it though, thankfully, never had mites, so if anyone's tried it, what happened?


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## riddleme (Jul 27, 2010)

How many of you like Metal music?

Some of you may or may not know that I play guitar (I have mentioned it here) I also write songs and sing and many moons ago I had a band. I decided to share this song with you (if your interested, of course) it was the first song I ever wrote and it is about being high 

recorded live in 1983 by my old band, yes it is me singing and yes I wrote the lyrics and the music,,,,,,,,,,,and

if ya like this one, I'll share the best song I ever wrote 

Why High- SoothSayer- 1983.mp3

enjoy


----------



## riddleme (Jul 27, 2010)

Ok, so I already got a PM asking for the best song I ever wrote, please keep in mind that IMHO I think it is the best, (I've written over 40 songs) so please let me know what "you" think?

these songs were recorded live a long time ago using a cheap cassette recorder so please forgive the "rawness" of them

Vicious Circle- SoothSayer- 1983.mp3

enjoy


----------



## gumball (Jul 27, 2010)

dont have time to listen yet, but will in the am. but wow those songs have made a journey to end up at this site for us to listen to. they didnt have mp3's in 1983, remember folks... 

thanks riddle for sharing this


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## echonc (Jul 27, 2010)

Babies are looking good. Also like the analogy, definitely made me think about my current grow and past grows more. Also good info on the soap, I have heard about using soap in soil but didnt know the reason. Keep on rocking!


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## baaamalaaam (Jul 27, 2010)

NIce!
I've been playing guitar for around 15 years, and the honey moon's not over yet...
Rooted in blues, but I am leaning towards metal these days.
I love bands like Tool, Mastodon, megadeth, Children of Bodom, etc.
Anything from the 60's and 70's is what makes up the rest of my collection... Psychedelia, cerebral music of any kind, really.
Dig the tunes. Were these live shows or rehearsals?
+rep to a fellow axeman and for the great advice in your posts/threads!


----------



## Illumination (Jul 27, 2010)

baaamalaaam said:


> NIce!
> I've been playing guitar for around 15 years, and the honey moon's not over yet...
> Rooted in blues, but I am leaning towards metal these days.
> I love bands like Tool, Mastodon, megadeth, Children of Bodom, etc.
> ...


Oooo Black Betty . . . 

Love me some TOOL!


----------



## baaamalaaam (Jul 27, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Oooo Black Betty . . .
> 
> Yeah, I chose that for my user name because there's a breeder in my area who did a wonderful and very potent AK-47/Sour Diesel cross called, "Black Betty."
> Tool is amazing.
> Danny Carey is right up there with (drummers) Bonham, Peart, and the like.


----------



## riddleme (Jul 28, 2010)

baaamalaaam said:


> NIce!
> I've been playing guitar for around 15 years, and the honey moon's not over yet...
> Rooted in blues, but I am leaning towards metal these days.
> I love bands like Tool, Mastodon, megadeth, Children of Bodom, etc.
> ...


it was a live show


----------



## Illumination (Jul 28, 2010)

baaamalaaam said:


> Illumination said:
> 
> 
> > Oooo Black Betty . . .
> ...


----------



## legalizeitcanada (Jul 28, 2010)

Ha,, just listened, was gunna say it musta been live........I like....I like......good to see there are still so many tool fans around.........I too play, actaully I run a music school and am an audio engineer by trade......good stuff riddleme, i dig it.......so i take it you still write and play eh! I would love to take a polll and see how many smokers on here are musicians, seems like it goes hand in hand......lol


riddleme said:


> it was a live show


----------



## legalizeitcanada (Jul 28, 2010)

SO watch this baaamalaam, LMFAO RONTF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDD9FmdmUN4

aberlampse = ambulance LOL!!!!

sorry for hijacking your post here riddleme.....but its funny and bout music so I figured id be coo


----------



## riddleme (Jul 28, 2010)

legalizeitcanada said:


> SO watch this baaamalaam, LMFAO RONTF
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDD9FmdmUN4
> 
> ...


Everything is cool in my threads lol


----------



## bigman4270 (Jul 28, 2010)

legalizeitcanada said:


> SO watch this baaamalaam, LMFAO RONTF
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDD9FmdmUN4
> 
> ...


Now that was some funny shit!


----------



## Illumination (Jul 28, 2010)

legalizeitcanada said:


> Ha,, just listened, was gunna say it musta been live........I like....I like......good to see there are still so many tool fans around.........I too play, actaully I run a music school and am an audio engineer by trade......good stuff riddleme, i dig it.......so i take it you still write and play eh! I would love to take a polll and see how many smokers on here are musicians, seems like it goes hand in hand......lol


https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/352818-you-musician.html < POLL!

There you go....spread it around

Namaste'
" A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


----------



## baaamalaaam (Jul 28, 2010)

legalizeitcanada said:


> SO watch this baaamalaam, LMFAO RONTF
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDD9FmdmUN4
> 
> ...


Yes it's true; beards do make one epic.
Holy shit though, that guy doesn't fuck around!


----------



## Tarkfu (Jul 28, 2010)

Thanks for the philosophy reinforcement riddleme. I am on my first grow and one thing I've learned and understood from the beginning is that weed is a WEED. It is a survivor. Most of us as growers baby our babies a bit too much it seems. But that is the most important thing I can understand is that itll be ok. (Ive been one of the lurkers trying to soak in the info lol)


----------



## Illumination (Jul 28, 2010)

legalizeitcanada said:


> SO watch this baaamalaam, LMFAO RONTF
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDD9FmdmUN4
> 
> ...


Messed with da wrong ol' man!! AWESOME!

Namaste' 

"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


----------



## cowboylogic (Jul 28, 2010)

Never under estimate your opponent.


----------



## baaamalaaam (Jul 28, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Never under estimate your opponent.


Very Good advice.
Some people learn the hard way...


----------



## riddleme (Jul 28, 2010)

Tarkfu said:


> Thanks for the philosophy reinforcement riddleme. I am on my first grow and one thing I've learned and understood from the beginning is that weed is a WEED. It is a survivor. Most of us as growers baby our babies a bit too much it seems. But that is the most important thing I can understand is that itll be ok. (Ive been one of the lurkers trying to soak in the info lol)


welcome, to the conversation!


----------



## Old Goat (Jul 29, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Everything is cool in my threads lol



I discovered a small light leak at about the same time I see a plant issue. 
MY temps are high 70* 35/40 RH. 400 Watt CMH going barefoot.The plants have a light spacing of about 12/14 inches. Also my first grow with CMH. Proper PH & PPM.
4 weeks into flower with 3 WW with many smallish buds but they'll fill out. 1st I've no way to give up a photo.
The issue with my plants is that nearly all pistols look as though they've been burnt. About 1/4th of the tip of the pistol length has the issue. There are those that lost some pistols all together. Some growth stunting and poor looking bracts (small). All Nutes Etc. are proper

Is it possibly a UV burn?
Is it possibly the light leak and they may be re veging? This leak was very minor but there none the less. 

I've never seen this issue before but I may not have been paying that much attention. There is a possibility that the HPS VS CMH light color (yellow/white) made it more apparent. I forgot to mention that I've done some foliar spray with Hygrozyme and House & Garden Magic Green. Both of which are recommended to use in this manner. H&G is spaced at every other week during flowering.


----------



## cowboylogic (Jul 29, 2010)

Old Goat said:


> I discovered a small light leak at about the same time I see a plant issue.
> MY temps are high 70* 35/40 RH. 400 Watt CMH going barefoot.The plants have a light spacing of about 12/14 inches. Also my first grow with CMH. Proper PH & PPM.
> 4 weeks into flower with 3 WW with many smallish buds but they'll fill out. 1st I've no way to give up a photo.
> The issue with my plants is that nearly all pistols look as though they've been burnt. About 1/4th of the tip of the pistol length has the issue. There are those that lost some pistols all together. Some growth stunting and poor looking bracts (small). All Nutes Etc. are proper
> ...


I will leave the UV ? to Riddle. 

I will say this though. Foliar spraying/feeding during flower is a bad idea under most any circumstance.


----------



## riddleme (Jul 29, 2010)

and I would say a combination of UV and the foiliar spraying


----------



## cowboylogic (Jul 29, 2010)

Yep, lets see.... Water drops and strong UV wavelenghts. Hmmm....


----------



## Old Goat (Jul 30, 2010)

I think we're pretty much on the same page. One thing though as I looked very close the Pistols in lesser light have less of an issue. Everything will get a good flush/ water/ light nutes. Just because! Plus I'll lift the light to 18".
I do appreicate you both in answering. As they say on the evening news... Film at 11.


----------



## riddleme (Jul 30, 2010)

*Drowning Cure Update*

Did a ditty on the proper ways to cure awhile back (page 41 calling all noob growers thread) in that ditty I proved a hippie myth to be true and subsequent reports from others indicate that it is working very well

I had a friend do it to his last harvest, he drowned em for 12 days, then dried em for 2 weeks (nice slow dry) then in jars for less than a day I got a sample and gotta tell ya, I am impressed. Burns great no popping, taste great, no hay or chlorophyll taste, nice slow creeping high (it was a sativa) 

so if you have not yet read the ditty,,,,,you should


----------



## riddleme (Jul 30, 2010)

plants got rain this morning w/molasses everything holding steady, lights are now up to 17/7 will post pics on Sat.


----------



## riddleme (Jul 31, 2010)

plants responding and growing nicely, #4 is catching up (1 node behind) 

there is nothing quite like being in control of the temps, I have played with different temp settings to watch the plants reaction (ranges from 79 to 84) they very definately are responding to the heat as I see more growth when the heater is on as opposed to being off (yes I have left it off for a few days) figured now was the time to play with this, while they are young

here are the pics, enjoy


----------



## purplecream (Jul 31, 2010)

Amazing grow riddleme, i've read some of your other post and they're really helpful. Anyway you say your lights are 17/7, !7 on or off? Just curious.


----------



## riddleme (Jul 31, 2010)

17 on, 7 off slowly working up to 18/6 to stimulate the season


----------



## Tarkfu (Jul 31, 2010)

Just a thought, but to go along with the idea of simulating nature, how about a way for the lights to dim and brighten instead of just BAM all the light on and BAM all the light off. Maybe slowly brighten for like an hour when they come on and slowly dim for an hour going off or something. To simulate dawn and dusk.


----------



## riddleme (Jul 31, 2010)

not necessary, as the light going Bam on and Bam off is no different than sun going behind a cloud and comin back out, plants are used to that. I do the hour thing to build better root systems


----------



## riddleme (Aug 1, 2010)

I top dressed the pots with dolomite (1/2 teaspoon per pot) then covered it with another 1/2 inch of new soil, not because there is a problem but rather to get ready for the long haul, so to speak

and, the babies got their first dose of jack's this morning (1/4 strength) mixed in with their rain, weening them onto it slowly


----------



## xshooterx (Aug 1, 2010)

Hey Riddle, subscribed and eager to learn! Now, first, if you plan on getting some good bud porn, you gotta know how to get pics with the hero (subject) in focus. Looks like your previous images were either too close for your camera settings or your camera is back focusing. If your camera has a macro setting (may be indicated with a flower icon) use that when shooting a subject say 1 to 2 feet away. Also, you need to know where your camera is "looking" for focus; generally set to the center of the viewing area, but can be set off center. The focus point is usually indicated by a square or rectangle HUD symbol. Nice to have a daylight balanced light source (CMH) for good color balance though. A little post processing of digital images can make a big difference... can be a time suck though [

Well, the on going saga of my poor abused little girls, little miss sativa and indica is sad but plodding along. 


Can you believe they are 2 months old! I'm not sure how I locked these poor girls up but I did real good LOL. The indica on the left has been treated the same as the sativa. 

Oops, wife just reminded me I promised her Belgian waffles for breakfast... gotta go cook. I will be back in a couple hours.


----------



## riddleme (Aug 1, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Hey Riddle, subscribed and eager to learn! Now, first, if you plan on getting some good bud porn, you gotta know how to get pics with the hero (subject) in focus. Looks like your previous images were either too close for your camera settings or your camera is back focusing. If your camera has a macro setting (may be indicated with a flower icon) use that when shooting a subject say 1 to 2 feet away. Also, you need to know where your camera is "looking" for focus; generally set to the center of the viewing area, but can be set off center. The focus point is usually indicated by a square or rectangle HUD symbol. Nice to have a daylight balanced light source (CMH) for good color balance though. A little post processing of digital images can make a big difference... can be a time suck though [
> 
> Well, the on going saga of my poor abused little girls, little miss sativa and indica is sad but plodding along. View attachment 1075018View attachment 1075019
> 
> ...


Couple of things, I see you only have 2 post so I want to let you know that it is wrong to post pics of your plants in other peoples grow journals without asking. Now me I don't really care but others might get upset

2nd they are seedlings, so i don't care about the focus as much, my intent is to show the internode spaceing and they do that, as for bud porn I have attached some from my last grow to show you that I can take pics 

finally, you should seriously consider starting over, those plants are in pretty sad shape


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## xshooterx (Aug 1, 2010)

Sorry Riddle, I didn't mean to sound too critical there. But, I guess what I wrote could be read that way. Been in the photography business for about 30 years and I sometimes don't know how act around regular people 8] Now I will dig myself in a little deeper and say that the pics you just posted of those beauties could use some sharpening... would really make them POP!... and now I am running and ducking.

Thanks for letting me know about posting pics, I truly thought it was okay.

As for my poor abused little girls. Yeah, I know they probably should have gone in the compost bin weeks ago. I remember reading a post by UB a while back about how he got a clone from a guy. The clone was pretty much gone, but UB workrd his magic and brought it back. Now I am no UB nor will I ever be
but I am still hangin with these two sad little girls. I am sure I will learn something useful; already have!

I very much appreciate your shared efforts here Riddle.

Peace Bro


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## Danielsgb (Aug 1, 2010)

So I have one for everyone to hear about. My sister had a few dates with a local caregiver. She thought we might 'click'. Oh, real hard guess there, cause you can't talk NPK's, and soil mixes, with many people. In person, not all my friends here, of course. So Friday, I went to see his shop and grow rooms. Nice, but with things different than I would do, of course. His Veg room he had two 400 HPS, one of them on a mover. I start into 'Oh my God' go to CMH. We talked for a while, and I invited him for a BBQ Sat. night to see my set up. 
When He saw my Veg table under my 400W, His reply, "Wow, your node spacing is as tight as you said". I replied, "Yea now imagine flowering, this is just my veg table" A bit later, I said order two of those right away. He said, with the new investor he's going to fifty 1000W, so he'll be ordering more than two.
I think I made him 'See the light' I thought you might like that story. Here's a Pic of my veg under my 400W.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Aug 1, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> So I have one for everyone to hear about. My sister had a few dates with a local caregiver. She thought we might 'click'. Oh, real hard guess there, cause you can't talk NPK's, and soil mixes, with many people. In person, not all my friends here, of course. So Friday, I went to see his shop and grow rooms. Nice, but with things different than I would do, of course. His Veg room he had two 400 HPS, one of them on a mover. I start into 'Oh my God' go to CMH. We talked for a while, and I invited him for a BBQ Sat. night to see my set up.
> When He saw my Veg table under my 400W, His reply, "Wow, your node spacing is as tight as you said". I replied, "Yea now imagine flowering, this is just my veg table" A bit later, I said order two of those right away. He said, with the new investor he's going to fifty 1000W, so he'll be ordering more than two.
> I think I made him 'See the light' I thought you might like that story. Here's a Pic of my veg under my 400W.
> Daniels
> View attachment 1075356


very nice, both the story and the plants


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## riddleme (Aug 2, 2010)

took update pics for end of week 2 Sat morning, here it is Mon morning 2 days later and after the tiny taste of Jack's (all purpose 20-20-20) this is plant #2 and I am reposting the pic from Sat morning for comparison, as you can see a pretty nice growth spurt, they will get rain again tomorrow it is holding steady every 3 days


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## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 2, 2010)

Lookin good brother !


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## cowboylogic (Aug 2, 2010)

Nice little fatties you have started.

But I have to say this. I love my CMH's. And am very impressed at there performance so far. But.......... The 600 Hortilux end of the flower room is visually beefing up better than the 400 CMH end. And right down the middle things are happy. They are happy on both ends but right now a month in. The Hortilux has the edge. And the OB solo under a 400 CMH looks fantastic. Nice full, firm buds. Great resin production and the smell is amazing. But knowing this strain as well as i do. I think I could have gotten a bit more beef out of her is I would have switched to HPS the last 2 or 3 weeks.


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## desertrat (Aug 2, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Nice little fatties you have started.
> 
> But I have to say this. I love my CMH's. And am very impressed at there performance so far. But.......... The 600 Hortilux end of the flower room is visually beefing up better than the 400 CMH end. And right down the middle things are happy. They are happy on both ends but right now a month in. The Hortilux has the edge. And the OB solo under a 400 CMH looks fantastic. Nice full, firm buds. Great resin production and the smell is amazing. But knowing this strain as well as i do. I think I could have gotten a bit more beef out of her is I would have switched to HPS the last 2 or 3 weeks.


 Wouldnt you expect a 600 watt hps light to out perform a broad spectrum 400 watt light in flowering, all other things equal? Even if the cmh was better on a per watt basis it's probably not going to overcome a 33% deficit in power, no?


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## riddleme (Aug 2, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Nice little fatties you have started.
> 
> But I have to say this. I love my CMH's. And am very impressed at there performance so far. But.......... The 600 Hortilux end of the flower room is visually beefing up better than the 400 CMH end. And right down the middle things are happy. They are happy on both ends but right now a month in. The Hortilux has the edge. And the OB solo under a 400 CMH looks fantastic. Nice full, firm buds. Great resin production and the smell is amazing. But knowing this strain as well as i do. I think I could have gotten a bit more beef out of her is I would have switched to HPS the last 2 or 3 weeks.


This is exactly why I am doing the IR heat experiment since most things I have read compare a 400 watt CMH to a 600 watt hps, (performance wise) granted most reports are that the buds are a bit smaller but that the quality is better (trich & resin production) I believe that the heat is the main difference, hence the experiment, we shall see???


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## cowboylogic (Aug 2, 2010)

I hear were you are coming from. But I light my garden alot like Riddle. Not how close I can get them to the tops. But more even and equal light if you will. The lumen coverage across the 6x4 area is pretty even. The canopy gets about (the same lumens, checked with a light meter) from end to end. This is about more than just coverage. I am pretty certain the spectrum is coming into play. Hmm... the early fall does have a nice warm glow to it.......


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## cowboylogic (Aug 2, 2010)

riddleme said:


> This is exactly why I am doing the IR heat experiment since most things I have read compare a 400 watt CMH to a 600 watt hps, (performance wise) granted most reports are that the buds are a bit smaller but that the quality is better (trich & resin production) I believe that the heat is the main difference, hence the experiment, we shall see???


 
I try to keep up/catch up with you posts. Guess I will just hang back and watch this one unfold. If you would stop posting now I may be able to catch up on my reading by the end of the year!  Rock on. I will still probaly still spout of from time too time. Cause no way to catch up now. LOL


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## riddleme (Aug 2, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> I try to keep up/catch up with you posts. Guess I will just hang back and watch this one unfold. If you would stop posting now I may be able to catch up on my reading by the end of the year!  Rock on. I will still probaly still spout of from time too time. Cause no way to catch up now. LOL


Yeah I ramble a lot LOL, you spout off anytime my friend,,,,hey that is kinda like starsky and hutch

Ramble & Spout


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## cowboylogic (Aug 2, 2010)

Do you have Gran Torino? LMAO I can paint a stripe........ I still think thats where Nike got thier logo.


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## riddleme (Aug 2, 2010)

visited RMH's garden this afternoon, had a blast, great to be able to meet fellow growers and talk growing
anyway he posted pics here,
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/347912-polish-pot-farmers-outdoor-grow-9.html#post4467947

seems I'm a scarecrow now


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## desertrat (Aug 2, 2010)

riddleme said:


> This is exactly why I am doing the IR heat experiment since most things I have read compare a 400 watt CMH to a 600 watt hps, (performance wise) granted most reports are that the buds are a bit smaller but that the quality is better (trich & resin production) I believe that the heat is the main difference, hence the experiment, we shall see???


 Ah, the light bulb has finally come on, so to speak. FYI - based on limited data, in my research in lighting for cutting edge wavelength specific info a 600 watt hps puts out something like 200 PAR watts while a 400 watt mh(no cmh but reason to believe it has similar PAR watts) has about 150 PAR watts. And for arcane reasons that comparison understates gap between hps and mh. What all that means is that the 600 watt hps light is giving plants half again more photons in the photosynthesis region of the spectrum than the 400 watt mh - tough hill to overcome so if you even get equal growth then you've supported the idea of a benefit for infrared, IMHO. And how great is it to be someplace where I don't have to let that other half of my avatar loose on the world


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## riddleme (Aug 2, 2010)

What I'm remembering is the PAR watts was 210 but I can't find the link (might be on one of my other computers (I have 5)) 

I'll see if I can find it?


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## desertrat (Aug 2, 2010)

riddleme said:


> What I'm remembering is the PAR watts was 210 but I can't find the link (might be on one of my other computers (I have 5))
> 
> I'll see if I can find it?


Thats a wild watt/par watt ratio - is the cmh particularly cool in temp?


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## riddleme (Aug 2, 2010)

yes they run a lot cooler, this pic is a 250 watt from another forum


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## That 5hit (Aug 2, 2010)

are you using the cmh from start to finish 
is the cmh = to the mh (whats the difference )
and explain making it rain


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## riddleme (Aug 2, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> are you using the cmh from start to finish
> is the cmh = to the mh (whats the difference )
> and explain making it rain


Yes will be using only the CMH for entire grow has the same spectrum as the sun including UVB (pic attached CMH compared to HPS)

CMH has better spectrum, has higher PAR watts, runs cooler but has limitations as well highest available wattage is 400 (many growers run 2 instead of using 1000 watters) and requires a magnetic ballast (will not run on digital) photon output = to most 600 watt bulbs causes fast growth so much so that it is required to suppliment silica due to faster increase in cell division (silica helps with this, I use DynaGro ProtK) 

I totally explain making it rain in my calling all noob growers thread (sig link)


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## That 5hit (Aug 2, 2010)

??? so is the cmh 
yielding more and faster then standard bulbs 
how much time does the this bulb shave off the grow 
or how much more is the bulb yielding over other 400w'ers
am i saving on power cost over other bulbs


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## riddleme (Aug 2, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> ??? so is the cmh
> yielding more and faster then standard bulbs
> how much time does the this bulb shave off the grow
> or how much more is the bulb yielding over other 400w'ers
> am i saving on power cost over other bulbs


I would say yes to better yields if used by an experienced grower (but that is true of all bulbs, the experience part)
I have seen some incredible grows using CMH

Most will say that the buds are smaller but that the quality is higher, the UVB helps with trich & resin production

no to faster finish, yes to faster growth

400 watts is 400 watts to the electric company, the bulb uses 4.6 amps


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## gumball (Aug 3, 2010)

For what its worth, I can put my fingers an inch from a 100 watt CMH without being burnt. I tapped the top a few times (being cautious) and it was no worse than tapping the top of a 100 watt incandescent, IMO. My temp sensor is 2 inches from the cool tube, with the actual sensor away from light, shaded so to speak, and with my 30cfm cool tube fan, 60 cfm case fan I have 84 to 86 degrees. 

This is not like any of your spaces though, it is a Computer case.


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## desertrat (Aug 3, 2010)

Here's the arcane info, unverified but sounds logical, as to why hps par watts deliver more useable light than an equivalent number of mh par watts:


> Unfortunately PAR watts doesn't measure the energy that the bulb puts off which the plants use for photosynthesis and growth. It measures the energy that the bulb actually puts off as visible light, actually any light 400nm-700nm.
> Plants use different wavelengths of light with different efficiencies. Red light is used with 2-5 times the efficiency of green light, but all wavelengths are treated equally when measuring PAR watts. This can be considered an improvement on lumens which count/----/--22 green light more than red light.
> 
> Also, plants use photons, not watts. Plant scientists use a PAR measure that actually counts photons. This is important because it takes 700W to make the same number of blue photons as you get from 400W with red photons but one blue photon makes the same contribution to creating sugar as one red photon (ignoring the other stuff that blue photons do like making leaves follow the light). So a 400 PAR watts bulb may be putting out exactly the same number of photons as a 700 PAR watt bulb. The makers of metal halide lamps love this measure because it makes their lamps look better relative to HPS bulbs. The metal halide bulb converts about as much energy into light as an HPS bulb, but creates fewer photons because they are bluer and each photon takes more energy.
> ...


. Again, it's just info that would support your infrared theory even if the growth is just equal to a 600 watt hps.


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## riddleme (Aug 3, 2010)

The best info I have found on the CMH is here
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215

this is an active thread that is almost 3 years old, long but very good read and some incredible pics


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## riddleme (Aug 4, 2010)

Want to thank RMH for inviting me to check out Skunk Skool (google it) as it is a great place, lots of vetern growers with no hating, just sharing of info and discussion on techniques, I joined in last night and had a great time. I would invite all of to check it out! DesertRat your experiments would be well recieved there as the whole forum is like being in one of my threads. Not as many members, not as much traffic but still good place to chill


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## desertrat (Aug 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> DesertRat your experiments would be well recieved there as the whole forum is like being in one of my threads. Not as many members, not as much traffic but still good place to chill


Thanks, I'll check it out.


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## medicalmary (Aug 4, 2010)

I thought you were doing this in your journal. no wonder all there was there is tumbleweeds. subscribed...

mm


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## riddleme (Aug 5, 2010)

medicalmary said:


> I thought you were doing this in your journal. no wonder all there was there is tumbleweeds. subscribed...
> 
> mm


I started there, but seemed as if not everyone was finding it so I copied it here and simply decided to stay here with it maybe update the journal occasionally, seems most of the older members are not into the blog thing


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## riddleme (Aug 5, 2010)

So here is another 2 day pic of plant #2 pic 1 Sat, pic 2 Monday pic 3 this morning, they got another dose of Jack's yesterday

I don't know of a better way to show the effects of making it rain


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## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 5, 2010)

Nice, gotta love the rain


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## purplecream (Aug 5, 2010)

Hey riddleme can you please explain making it rain to me? I've been looking through your post but i can't find what that actually is. Is it just how you water your plants or?


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## gumball (Aug 5, 2010)

You flood them with 3 times soil volume with plain water on one watering, then feed with just enough water (mixed with nutes) to get run off next watering. Repeat. You can do water, water, feed, water, water. Basically you can mix it up, the point is to wash away the nutes with flooding, increasing the plants nute uptake during feeding. That's how I understand it.


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## Illumination (Aug 5, 2010)

riddleme said:


> So here is another 2 day pic of plant #2 pic 1 Sat, pic 2 Monday pic 3 this morning, they got another dose of Jack's yesterday
> 
> I don't know of a better way to show the effects of making it rain


Yep rain is da bomb!! Lookin great teach!!

Namaste'


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## purplecream (Aug 5, 2010)

gumball said:


> You flood them with 3 times soil volume with plain water on one watering, then feed with just enough water (mixed with nutes) to get run off next watering. Repeat. You can do water, water, feed, water, water. Basically you can mix it up, the point is to wash away the nutes with flooding, increasing the plants nute uptake during feeding. That's how I understand it.


Ohhh ok. I have my plant in a 3 gallon pot so i would flood it with 3 gallons of plain water then with nutrients the next time around? Thanks for the help by the way.


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## gumball (Aug 5, 2010)

No, I think the technique works best with 2 to 3 times the soil volume. So 6-9 gallons of water for your pot size. Again, this is how I understand the technique.


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## Delux83 (Aug 5, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I started there, but seemed as if not everyone was finding it so I copied it here and simply decided to stay here with it maybe update the journal occasionally, seems most of the older members are not into the blog thing


i dont even know how to find peoples blogs lol less i go to the home page see something interesting im just glad people still use threads, the day b4 they tried to change RIU to blogging i got in a big arguement with my ol'lady how im not a blogger what i do is completly different, then i log onto roll it up and was like damnit i have to blog now huh? glad i didnt lol ol'lady would of made lots of fun of me haha


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## riddleme (Aug 5, 2010)

purplecream said:


> Ohhh ok. I have my plant in a 3 gallon pot so i would flood it with 3 gallons of plain water then with nutrients the next time around? Thanks for the help by the way.


sorry I'm at work will explain it better when I get home tonight


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## purplecream (Aug 5, 2010)

riddleme said:


> sorry I'm at work will explain it better when I get home tonight


Cool thanks.

Thanks gumball for the help too +Rep.


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## gumball (Aug 5, 2010)

Your welcome! Like I said, that's how I understand and apply the technique.


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## SensiStan (Aug 5, 2010)

Hey riddle sorry i havent been aroundmuch lately i'm a bit of a lout , amazing comparison pics ur thread is really living up to my expectations so +rep and good man ! 

I'm really loving all this rain publicity all of a sudden it kicks ass  would it be cheesey to say "when it rains it pours" ? maybe its all the cheese iv been smokin thanks to the rain it was much better. 

Also i remember you saying something about lancing roots to make them grow inward and use more space in the pot. could you by any chance pm me if you know what i'm on about or refer me to where you said that. 

Much love, 

-SS


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## riddleme (Aug 5, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> Hey riddle sorry i havent been aroundmuch lately i'm a bit of a lout , amazing comparison pics ur thread is really living up to my expectations so +rep and good man !
> 
> I'm really loving all this rain publicity all of a sudden it kicks ass  would it be cheesey to say "when it rains it pours" ? maybe its all the cheese iv been smokin thanks to the rain it was much better.
> 
> ...


Thank you, glad I have not lowered your expectations LOL and PM sent


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## riddleme (Aug 5, 2010)

purplecream said:


> Hey riddleme can you please explain making it rain to me? I've been looking through your post but i can't find what that actually is. Is it just how you water your plants or?


I must admit some of the info is scattered about in 3 different threads, I actually did that on purpose to get people to read them, though there is a summary on the 1st post of the calling all noob growers thread, which if you did not read the other 2 does not make complete sense to everyone. That being said,,,,,,,

It is all about how mother nature does things and with her being the absolute best gardener there is I set out to copy her style.

The PH of rain (in most places) is 5.6 so I PH my water to 5.8, to understand why you need to understand how everything works in nature and why they say soil is a buffer. This is why soil PH is somewhat important because when it is dry the PH should be around 7 or neutral. When it rains the soil takes on the wet PH of the water in the case of rain it is lowered. The acidic nature of rain activates things in the soil basically processing avaiable nutes and making them available to the plants. But at the low PH the plants can't get at them, I have attached a photo showing at what PH level the different nutes become available to the plant.

What happens is the plant is basically drowing and starving when it rains so it goes into hyperdrive to wick the water out of the ground in order to survive, Know that they transpire anyway but much harder when it rains. As they do this the soil buffers back to it's original PH slowly and as this happens nutes become available to the plant in the various ranges. (one reason you see more growth on the second day) 

Most soil growers will PH their water and nutes down in the low 6's and as high as 6.8 but this does not give the hyperdrive wicking effect, they will just transpire normally and slowly if you do this. Hence the growth you see in my pics from making it rain because I basically only let them rest for one day (to dry out and get O2) between making it rain and it is very important to know how to read them to know that this is where things are at otherwise you will easily fall into the overwater trap and cause them stress and harm possibly even kill them.

It is also important that they have a healthy root system in order to be able to wick the water out of the ground faster. TIP, if they are growing fast and wanting water in short periods of time you know you have healthy roots part of learning how to read them and one of the things to be aware of.

This is also the reason that I use chemical nutes as they are readily available to the plant right away as the wicking process goes through the various PH ranges getting back to neutral, it is a slower process with organic nutes as the rain activates and the little mico critters eat and poop processing the nutes so the plant can use them.

now you must also understand that adding chem nutes lowers the PH of your soil with accumulated salt build ups, when you make it rain everytime you are basically doing what we call the flush (though in the other than MJ world it is most commonly reffered as leeching the soil) and washing unused nutes (salts) out of the soil thus allowing you to repeat the process all over again without having to worry about salt building up. Yet another reason that it is slower when going organic cause you are washing mico's out as well and then waiting for them to multiply back up and this is why I use Jack's because it is one of the best chem nutes available on the market today. JR Peters has a very good reputation and has been one of the best nutes for agriculture and gardening for many years.

The process for container gardening is simple you make it rain with the low PH water and the plant goes into hyperdrive, you watch the top 3 inches of soil for drying out and when it does you feed them nutes but only till you see a slight runoff insuring that the pot is now full of nutes. Plant remains in hyperdrive and now feeds off the readily available nutes, you then wait till the soil dries and repeat. While the process is very simple it is the learning to read them that can be complicated and cause confusion. Learning/knowing when to do things is the most important part of the process. It is also important not to overfeed them which causes nute burn and other problems, thus the reason we start out with 1/4 of what the nute package says and slowly work our way up to discover what the plant can handle.

I hope that explains it better for everyone


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## purplecream (Aug 5, 2010)

Thank you so much that really explains everything in a easy way. Last question. How much water do i use when i make it rain? I use 3 gallon pots but i may use 2 gallon pots in the future so what is the formula for how much water is needed? Thanks again and +Rep for sure.


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## riddleme (Aug 5, 2010)

the general rule for flushing is 3 times the pot size, but for raining it can vary a bit ie: you can do 2 gallons of water in a 3 gallon pot, the thing is to watch the run off you want it to be clear at first it tends to be brownish and also pour the water slowly and evenly thru the pot,,,think nice slow steady rain, but a minimum would be 2 times the pot size


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## gumball (Aug 5, 2010)

yes, now i understand it a lot better than i thought i did before. and that chart tells me why my plants no like my water, 7.5+ ph in water i think. def getting ph down and good test kit tomorrow.


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## riddleme (Aug 5, 2010)

I use apple cider vinegar to ph down, it is an old hippie favorite


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## purplecream (Aug 5, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I use apple cider vinegar to ph down, it is an old hippie favorite


I do too! What do you use to up your ph?


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## buraka415 (Aug 6, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I use apple cider vinegar to ph down, it is an old hippie favorite


what about the stability of using apple cider vinegar as a PH modifier? I've read here on RIU and other garden forums that lemon juice, vinegar, etc.. are not stable for long term. Like, if you were going to aerate your reservoir for a few hours, and you had applied the vinegar after nutes in order to adjust PH, that coming back later the PH could've changed drastically. thoughts from your experience?


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## gumball (Aug 6, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I use apple cider vinegar to ph down, it is an old hippie favorite


i used some distilled white vinegar last watering, but it is not very stable so i want to pick something up that is meant for it. i am thinking of trying to grow a tomato plant DWC in the window this winter to try and learn the technique, so the equipment will be needed. thanks though


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## cowboylogic (Aug 6, 2010)

The apple cider vinegar besides bringing ph down also gives your plants B vitamins, amino acids and also releases iron in the medium. Its just all around good stuff for our plants and ourselves.


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## riddleme (Aug 6, 2010)

purplecream said:


> I do too! What do you use to up your ph?


have never had to up it, but the dynaGro ProtK will do it has a PH of 10



buraka415 said:


> what about the stability of using apple cider vinegar as a PH modifier? I've read here on RIU and other garden forums that lemon juice, vinegar, etc.. are not stable for long term. Like, if you were going to aerate your reservoir for a few hours, and you had applied the vinegar after nutes in order to adjust PH, that coming back later the PH could've changed drastically. thoughts from your experience?


You would be right in hydro, but not in soil and folks I AM A SOIL GROWER and an old hippie



cowboylogic said:


> The apple cider vinegar besides bringing ph down also gives your plants B vitamins, amino acids and also releases iron in the medium. Its just all around good stuff for our plants and ourselves.


touche brother, great thirst quencher as well


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## purplecream (Aug 6, 2010)

Had my first rain today riddleme i'll let you know how it goes!


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## riddleme (Aug 6, 2010)

cool beans! lookin forward to it, I'm pretty sure you'll never go back once you get it going


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## Tarkfu (Aug 6, 2010)

Wow, that helped me understand making it rain a lot better. I understood the basics of it, but now I could probably even explain it to another person! lol


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## gumball (Aug 6, 2010)

Tarkfu said:


> Wow, that helped me understand making it rain a lot better. I understood the basics of it, but now I could probably even explain it to another person! lol


I am with u tarkfu! I thought I understood it, but I knew I was wrong once I read the last post.


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## riddleme (Aug 6, 2010)

Tarkfu said:


> Wow, that helped me understand making it rain a lot better. I understood the basics of it, but now I could probably even explain it to another person! lol


what are you waiting for spread the word


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## riddleme (Aug 7, 2010)

So I have now documented growth on plant 2 for the week 3 period, 1st pic was last Sat, 2nd pic was Mon, 3rd pic was Thur (I know you have already seen these 3) and last pic was this morning. I think I have now proven that makin it rain works, that CMH light is the bomb and that I have a bit of clue as to what I'm doing 

remember that back a bit I said it was about to get interesting


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## gumball (Aug 7, 2010)

i didnt think we could sell seeds on RIU, i thought it was unauthorized.


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## riddleme (Aug 7, 2010)

Yeah I PM'd him and gave him a friendly warning, was gonna let it go but he comes back as a dick and says,,,



> I would normally say sorry but I am not,


I want to buy my seeds from someone like this,,,,,,,,,NOT


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## SensiStan (Aug 7, 2010)

riddleme said:


> This is also the reason that I use chemical nutes as they are readily available to the plant right away as the wicking process goes through the various PH ranges getting back to neutral, it is a slower process with organic nutes as the rain activates and the little mico critters eat and poop processing the nutes so the plant can use them.
> 
> now you must also understand that adding chem nutes lowers the PH of your soil with accumulated salt build ups, when you make it rain everytime you are basically doing what we call the flush (though in the other than MJ world it is most commonly reffered as leeching the soil) and washing unused nutes (salts) out of the soil thus allowing you to repeat the process all over again without having to worry about salt building up. Yet another reason that it is slower when going organic cause you are washing mico's out as well and then waiting for them to multiply back up and this is why I use Jack's because it is one of the best chem nutes available on the market today. JR Peters has a very good reputation and has been one of the best nutes for agriculture and gardening for many years.


So Riddleme this.... As i have my heart so set on organics , i think i found a way around the micronute problem as i was aware of the above when i made it rain.

When watering nutes after the rain i overwatered a little, the plants were hardy little bastards and i left _some_ runoff in the tray after watering for the plant to wick up. This allowed me to let the plant wick nutes for 1.5-2 days . Now i'm not sure how many micronutes can build up over 2 days but i thought it would be better than one giving me more efficiency with my nute uptake .

Maybe i'm pissing on the theory behind the method in doing that but it worked well for me  

SensiStans 2c....


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## riddleme (Aug 7, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> So Riddleme this.... As i have my heart so set on organics , i think i found a way around the micronute problem as i was aware of the above when i made it rain.
> 
> When watering nutes after the rain i overwatered a little, the plants were hardy little bastards and i left _some_ runoff in the tray after watering for the plant to wick up. This allowed me to let the plant wick nutes for 1.5-2 days . Now i'm not sure how many micronutes can build up over 2 days but i thought it would be better than one giving me more efficiency with my nute uptake .
> 
> ...


I was gonna suggest that organic growers could experiment with adding the little mico critters back in after raining I know there are suppliments for doing this but don't really know how it would work out???


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## riddleme (Aug 7, 2010)

Now at the end of week 3, I have shown you the last weeks growth of plant #2 now it is time to look at all of them, and they are now on 18/6 (final switch thrown last night)

getting rain every 3 days and have had two feedings of Jack's Classic All Purpose 20-20-20, light is still at 32 inches from the top of the pot, but of course the top of the plant is closer as they grow Note they will grow to get what they want/need

Also note a bit of stretching on plant #4 totally my fault because it was put in a week later from the others and not a problem since I can bury the stem when I upcan them


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## bigman4270 (Aug 7, 2010)

Looking great my friend. Those bad boys(girls) are gonna explode when you up-can them.


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## SensiStan (Aug 7, 2010)

Those are some happy looking plants  

Turns out he's not just a crazy hippie guy .... , 

i'm gonna look into micronute suppliments and see if theres any way i can stop them washing away all the time , possibly treat the rainwater with a suppliment ? what are your thoughts on that ?


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## riddleme (Aug 7, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> Those are some happy looking plants
> 
> Turns out he's not just a crazy hippie guy .... ,
> 
> i'm gonna look into micronute suppliments and see if theres any way i can stop them washing away all the time , possibly treat the rainwater with a suppliment ? what are your thoughts on that ?


Think I would be more inclined to add them at feeding time, not sure they would not just drain out when you rain on em?


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## SensiStan (Aug 7, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Think I would be more inclined to add them at feeding time, not sure they would not just drain out when you rain on em?


Perhaps... at least now i'll be occupied for the rest of the day pondering this. i'm really trying to get the best possible results in the shortest possible time and this might make all the difference


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## cowboylogic (Aug 7, 2010)

riddleme said:


> So I have now documented growth on plant 2 for the week 3 period, 1st pic was last Sat, 2nd pic was Mon, 3rd pic was Thur (I know you have already seen these 3) and last pic was this morning. I think I have now proven that makin it rain works, that CMH light is the bomb and that I have a bit of clue as to what I'm doing
> 
> remember that back a bit I said it was about to get interesting


Talk about being tuned in. Gotta tip my hat too ya Riddle. Very, very well done.


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## riddleme (Aug 7, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Talk about being tuned in. Gotta tip my hat too ya Riddle. Very, very well done.


Thank you my friend! and nice point for those reading this (lurking) that a great grow is the sum of ALL parts, that every element MUST be properly dialed in to achieve good results. While it is true that makin it rain causes explosive growth, it won't happen right if the lights, temps, humidity, nutes etc are not dialed in as they should be


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## cowboylogic (Aug 7, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I was gonna suggest that organic growers could experiment with adding the little mico critters back in after raining I know there are suppliments for doing this but don't really know how it would work out???


Making it rain should not have much of an effect on the beneficials in the soils. They are attached and bound in amoung the roots and medium. You may drown a few but they are for the most part just bacteria. And we all know bacteria can breed faster than a 1000 rabbits giving the right environment. Earth Juice Microblast is your organic alternative to Calmag. It contains almost all of the goodies except calcium. Which is either supplemented with dolomite, compost teas (worm castings, chem or organic, one of our best friends) or even the water they are using. I think I am going to grow my Querkles in the multy journal 100% organic. So check in with Big and mines journal if you are more interested.

Spout out.......

Stoned edit: Riddle is right, just add some more beneficials the next time around.


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## gumball (Aug 7, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> Those are some happy looking plants
> 
> Turns out he's not just a crazy hippie guy .... ,
> 
> i'm gonna look into micronute suppliments and see if theres any way i can stop them washing away all the time , possibly treat the rainwater with a suppliment ? what are your thoughts on that ?


check out earth juice, they have a micro nute supplement. seems inexpensive, and states for soil or hydro, in case you ever think of switching!!!


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## cowboylogic (Aug 7, 2010)

gumball said:


> check out earth juice, they have a micro nute supplement. seems inexpensive, and states for soil or hydro, in case you ever think of switching!!!


Right on Gumball. You have been paying attention.


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## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 7, 2010)

Very nice brother, good job and way to teach it by example not bullshit and words


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## Danielsgb (Aug 7, 2010)

So I see you've said 'you know that I want a 3-1-2 NPK ratio for veg and a 2-1-3 NPK ratio for flower' many times. I just got the Jack's 20-20-20. I also got the Bloom Booster but it's 10-30-20. I had to come home to check you're ratio's again. So it's P is way too high? I'll have some time to get ready for the next flowering anyway. The 20-20-20 is off that veg ratio, and I add Pro-teKt for a 0-0-3 every other watering. I remember someone saying the mix of macro/micro, made a click for him, so I was waiting to switch. 
Daniels
Do you use the Outdoor 1 tbl spn. as a full str.? The Indoor seems weak.


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## SensiStan (Aug 7, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Making it rain should not have much of an effect on the beneficials in the soils. They are attached and bound in amoung the roots and medium. You may drown a few but they are for the most part just bacteria. And we all know bacteria can breed faster than a 1000 rabbits giving the right environment. Earth Juice Microblast is your organic alternative to Calmag. It contains almost all of the goodies except calcium. Which is either supplemented with dolomite, compost teas (worm castings, chem or organic, one of our best friends) or even the water they are using. I think I am going to grow my Querkles in the multy journal 100% organic. So check in with Big and mines journal if you are more interested.
> 
> Spout out.......
> 
> Stoned edit: Riddle is right, just add some more beneficials the next time around.


Sweet ,thanks CBL 

Good to know i was worrying over nothing really  i'll stick with the BioCANNA stuff its fermented plant extract absolutely swarming with all the goodies


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## riddleme (Aug 7, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> So I see you've said 'you know that I want a 3-1-2 NPK ratio for veg and a 2-1-3 NPK ratio for flower' many times. I just got the Jack's 20-20-20. I also got the Bloom Booster but it's 10-30-20. I had to come home to check you're ratio's again. So it's P is way too high? I'll have some time to get ready for the next flowering anyway. The 20-20-20 is off that veg ratio, and I add Pro-teKt for a 0-0-3 every other watering. I remember someone saying the mix of macro/micro, made a click for him, so I was waiting to switch.
> Daniels
> Do you use the Outdoor 1 tbl spn. as a full str.? The Indoor seems weak.


I am merely using up what I have left before switching, so please don't be confused (also using it on my tomatoes and the ol lady's flowers)


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## Danielsgb (Aug 7, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I am merely using up what I have left before switching, so please don't be confused (also using it on my tomatoes and the ol lady's flowers)


OK gotcha. I'm returning that Bloom Booster, and I'll order the other one later. Thanks


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

well we're comming up on topping time, prolly be middle to end of this week (4) but 6th nodes are comming out, I was thinking that I would top them each differently but now am having second thoughts as I prefer to top above the 5th node

what does everyone think?


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## bobhamm (Aug 8, 2010)

Why do you prefer to top above the 5th node?


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## gumball (Aug 8, 2010)

do one with UB technique for 4 or 6 tops, and then a comparison with your method. should make it a little more interesting. 

or like cowboys thread, to top or not. pick 2 and compare a topped of which ever technique you prefer to a non topped el naturale grow.


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## Danielsgb (Aug 8, 2010)

gumball said:


> do one with UB technique for 4 or 6 tops, and then a comparison with your method. should make it a little more interesting.
> 
> or like cowboys thread, to top or not. pick 2 and compare a topped of which ever technique you prefer to a non topped el naturale grow.


I loved topping UB Style. I got 4 tops even, and I'll be using it. My un-topped 2 weren't any better, so I think his worked well for me.


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> Why do you prefer to top above the 5th node?


While UB's method is very popular I prefer Mammoths way as it agrees with how I like to grow, topping above the 5th node gives 10 to 12 colas and makes little bushes out of indica dom's (which I prefer) Mammoth is no longer on the site but his thread was one of my Fav's when I joined RIU



gumball said:


> do one with UB technique for 4 or 6 tops, and then a comparison with your method. should make it a little more interesting.
> 
> or like cowboys thread, to top or not. pick 2 and compare a topped of which ever technique you prefer to a non topped el naturale grow.


That was my intention in the begining, but now I'm thinking about yields as I am gonna become a caregiver, so not sure?


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## gumball (Aug 8, 2010)

ok, well i dont remember hearing of mammoths technique (probably did and forgot!) but it sounds like a big difference in UB technique. 

do you plan on LST'ing much for this grow?


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

gumball said:


> ok, well i dont remember hearing of mammoths technique (probably did and forgot!) but it sounds like a big difference in UB technique.
> 
> do you plan on LST'ing much for this grow?


Not at all, gonna let em do what they want


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

gumball said:


> ok, well i dont remember hearing of mammoths technique (probably did and forgot!) but it sounds like a big difference in UB technique.
> 
> do you plan on LST'ing much for this grow?


here is a direct link to Mammoths Barneys LSD plant before harvest, the whole thread is a great read Mammoth was a hell of a grower
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/181208-my-stealth-cabinet-grow-journals-218.html#post3414671


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## SensiStan (Aug 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> well we're comming up on topping time, prolly be middle to end of this week (4) but 6th nodes are comming out, I was thinking that I would top them each differently but now am having second thoughts as I prefer to top above the 5th node
> 
> what does everyone think?


If i could pipe up for a minute , i know i'm not as experienced as some but i did this and it was great  

Try to Top AND Fim your plants i had some very very promising results when i topped and fimmed 1 of 3 cheese plants . In my last thread i managed 11 tops on one plant before i destroyed 5 playing with the ozone generator  

I Topped the middle for more prominent large top kolas and fimmed around the edges for lots of clustery bud formations. Would have been my best yielding plant if not for Noob disaster, the tops that survived were _delicious _.


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> If i could pipe up for a minute , i know i'm not as experienced as some but i did this and it was great
> 
> Try to Top AND Fim your plants i had some very very promising results when i topped and fimmed 1 of 3 cheese plants . In my last thread i managed 11 tops on one plant before i destroyed 5 playing with the ozone generator
> 
> I Topped the middle for more prominent large top kolas and fimmed around the edges for lots of clustery bud formations. Would have been my best yielding plant if not for Noob disaster, the tops that survived were _delicious _.


I never FIM, it's a technique I don't agree with due to the potential for different results


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

I set the plants up on paint cans to get them directly in the beam of the IR heater (have it adjusted to be aimed at the future buds) and raise the temp from 81F to 91F (high as the thermostat goes) and there were no signs of heat/moisture stress at all (I rained on em this morning), This tells me three things, I have adequate CO2 (though I have no way of measuring it, yet) that I have great root systems developing (as the plant can cool itself thru transpiration without stress) and that these are some hardy bitches

pic 1 is at 81F and pic 2 is at 91F


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

I should also add that doing this with the heater dropped my humidity 6 points


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## rastadred22 (Aug 8, 2010)

good idea! but im sooo happy to not run into low temps....being in bermuda


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## Tarkfu (Aug 8, 2010)

It's not actually a matter of controlling low temps. He's running an experiment to see how this particular kind of heat affects plant growth. Being that it's the same heat the plants would get from the sun.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 8, 2010)

WTF Riddle. Got everyone paying attention? Way Cool Beans............


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## rastadred22 (Aug 8, 2010)

fuck dats deep...interesting! what is ur hypothesis on that?


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> fuck dats deep...interesting! what is ur hypothesis on that?


hypothesis on what?


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## rastadred22 (Aug 8, 2010)

what u think is goin to happen with the heat effects


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> what u think is goin to happen with the heat effects


wrote the ditty on infrared back on page 11

but to sum it up, I am putting the light higher up for proper lumens and adding the IR heat to simulate the sun rather than using the heat from the light and expect bigger fatter tighter nugs


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## riddleme (Aug 8, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> WTF Riddle. Got everyone paying attention? Way Cool Beans............


I have been told I'm a good teacher? I have also been told I'm a decent grower.

I think that when folks see the things I do and the results, they pay attention cause they want to do it too


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## Illumination (Aug 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I have been told I'm a good teacher? I have also been told I'm a decent grower.
> 
> I think that when folks see the things I do and the results, they pay attention cause they want to do it too


You are definitely an awesome teacher with the patience of a very wise man. You take the time to answer and help until they understand. I think that your obvious enjoyment of teaching others also helps you to learn as well and you approach it as a win win as both you and your students are benefiting and that is why you are so great at it. Again thanx my friend and keep doing what you do so well. 

And I guess you are a decent grower...JOKE my friend....

Namaste' 

"A state licensed personal medical grow...Thank you"


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## xshooterx (Aug 8, 2010)

Hey Riddle,

I know that the girl in the front right is plainly stretched, which you have already explained. WIth the other three, is that a good internodal distance or would you prefer tighter? You're looking for short and bushy results right? Trying to fill in some of my inexperience :}


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## bigman4270 (Aug 9, 2010)

Illumination said:


> You are definitely an awesome teacher with the patience of a very wise man. You take the time to answer and help until they understand. I think that your obvious enjoyment of teaching others also helps you to learn as well and you approach it as a win win as both you and your students are benefiting and that is why you are so great at it. Again thanx my friend and keep doing what you do so well.
> 
> And I guess you are a decent grower...JOKE my friend....
> 
> ...


Ditto what illumination said. Maybe some day this student might get to say thanks in person.

Thanks!

Big


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## riddleme (Aug 9, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Hey Riddle,
> 
> I know that the girl in the front right is plainly stretched, which you have already explained. WIth the other three, is that a good internodal distance or would you prefer tighter? You're looking for short and bushy results right? Trying to fill in some of my inexperience :}


This is a great question, as I no longer take the blame LOL, at first I thought it was because I put it in late but now I know that the plant is showing more of it's sativa pheno, which I think could turn out to be interesting, as it continues to stretch so to speak. 

that is the same strain as Matilda was and her internodes were much wider than the males, by double, so I am pretty sure based on that that this one is a female and the simple fact that it is the only one doing this out of the 4 tells me that it is a pheno showing and not the lights


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## riddleme (Aug 9, 2010)

Ok, so I decided to to top em all at the 5th node (will do the multy topping next time)

as you can see in the pic #4 was only an inch behind, not bad for being planted a week later, this one might be special for the breeding I'm planning

you can also see I'm getting secondary branching as well, they are all doing quite nicely as I got another inch of hieght on all of em last night


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## cindergrow (Aug 9, 2010)

First off thanks for all the threads that you have started. Your info and advise has been most helpful. Now for a couple of questions. In your "Nutes on a Budget" thread you talk about Jacks and Dyna Gro being used on a Jacks, Jacks, Dyna Gro. Schedule. Now in your latest grow you are using a new product. Is this change due to grow medium change or just a superior product/npk percentage?

I would also like to know for clarification if you are doing the "rain/wick/feed" through the entire grow? In the wrap up post on "rain" you seem to be suggesting rain for very fast growth or normal water and feed with each watering for slower growth. On the same line of thought, does the "rain" make the plant use more food, or do you lower the nutes some due to what seems like a increase in schedule?

Now for a question more in line with the latest post; the cutting of the fifth node you show doing, how would this work for a clone with some alternating nodes?


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## riddleme (Aug 9, 2010)

QUOTE=cindergrow;4495256]First off thanks for all the threads that you have started. Your info and advise has been most helpful. Now for a couple of questions. In your "Nutes on a Budget" thread you talk about Jacks and Dyna Gro being used on a Jacks, Jacks, Dyna Gro. Schedule. Now in your latest grow you are using a new product. Is this change due to grow medium change or just a superior product/npk percentage?

I am simply verifying my research, that is the reason for all the changes

I would also like to know for clarification if you are doing the "rain/wick/feed" through the entire grow? In the wrap up post on "rain" you seem to be suggesting rain for very fast growth or normal water and feed with each watering for slower growth. On the same line of thought, does the "rain" make the plant use more food, or do you lower the nutes some due to what seems like a increase in schedule?

Yes I make it rain for the whole grow once I am past seedling stage, yes the plant uses more nutes when you make it rain hence the faster growth, I never lower the nutes unless there is a sign of burning and I do what the plant wants never follow a schedule

Now for a question more in line with the latest post; the cutting of the fifth node you show doing, how would this work for a clone with some alternating nodes?[/QUOTE

it will still turn it into a bush just might not have as many colas


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## *Kb* (Aug 9, 2010)

Subscribed...love the new setup, Riddleme. thanks for spreading your knowledge with us!


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## riddleme (Aug 9, 2010)

*Kb* said:


> Subscribed...love the new setup, Riddleme. thanks for spreading your knowledge with us!


wecome to the madness and thankyou for the kind words


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## cindergrow (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks for the speedy reply Riddle. I kind of thought this was another leg of your "Frankenstein" experiment. "IT IS ALIVE". I will continue to watch with everyone else. I'll try the fifth node deal on my Rosebud.






Thanks Again


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## riddleme (Aug 10, 2010)

Little lesson on proper planing, I had a friend that I gifted some beans to cause they were gifted to me. He already had things growing in his garden but decided he had room for one more and put 3 beans down to sex and get a female.

they all ended up being females and he only had room for one, so he calls me up and says do you know of a good home for some foster children? I said of course I do

so these girls are now going to 2 different homes, not only is it important to properly plan your garden but it is also good to expand your circle of grower friends as gift such as this can be shared

enjoy the pics I took while they were visiting

PS took the leaf pic to show the purples  strain is a Big Bud crossed with a Purple Erkle (F1 cross)


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## riddleme (Aug 10, 2010)

While the guest were here thought I'd take some fun pics, you saw in the last post how bushy these bitches are, they are both 17 inches tall.

I took these pics from the edge of the pot to get a plants eye view at the CMH light, wanted to see it thru the plants eyes so to speak, I thought they came out pretty cool

Enjoy


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## bigman4270 (Aug 10, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Little lesson on proper planing, I had a friend that I gifted some beans to cause they were gifted to me. He already had things growing in his garden but decided he had room for one more and put 3 beans down to sex and get a female.
> 
> they all ended up being females and he only had room for one, so he calls me up and says do you know of a good home for some foster children? I said of course I do
> 
> ...


Now that's what I call paying it forward. Right on brother and congratulation to the recipients. I hope they will keep us updated at the purple lovefest thread?

Peace


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## cowboylogic (Aug 10, 2010)

riddleme said:


> While the guest were here thought I'd take some fun pics, you saw in the last post how bushy these bitches are, they are both 17 inches tall.
> 
> I took these pics from the edge of the pot to get a plants eye view at the CMH light, wanted to see it thru the plants eyes so to speak, I thought they came out pretty cool
> 
> Enjoy


Ya, the CMH has a way of almost making plants look iridescent. Has you noticed the different colors depending on your view point?


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## ElectricPineapple (Aug 10, 2010)

hmm, i am definitely getting a CMH to veg with. but riddle, if i get the place im wanting that i found in CO, im going to be doing a grow with super soil, and then reg soil. i may make it rain in the reg soil and just use water, as subcool suggest ( with a little flowering enhancers in flower). just to see whose method or technique results in fastest growth and bud weight. ill be having 5-6 different strains going, 2 of which being TGA strains, 3 plants of each, one each in a different medium.


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## Delux83 (Aug 10, 2010)

love the shots from below wouldnt be sweet to walk through a forest of bud lol


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## WWShadow (Aug 10, 2010)

awesome pics, If you hadn't said it was under the light I would have thought that you took them outside!


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## riddleme (Aug 10, 2010)

Ok, I got these bitches and was gettin ready to deliver them, when I noticed some tiny brown spots on a few leaves, get out the trusty loupe and low and behold I see spider mites. 

So I call the benefactor and said cancel the trip and I called the gifter and told him to check his garden, then off to the store for a remedy, since I have never had em before I had to do a bit of research, every one says neem oil, I decided against it remembering that fellow grower EdGreyFox had em in one of his grows and the neem oil did not get rid of em.

I decided on two things, one was for the gifted plants (which actually had the critters) called Doctor Doom Spider Mite Knock Out, description here,
http://www.indoorgarden.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=704415

the other was for my plants now exposed,though looking closely at each leaf revealed no sign of em, this one called Veggie Pharm, description here,
http://pharmsolutions.com/veggie_pharm.html
it is supposed to be an organic preventative, but has notes saying not for indoor use with no explanation as to why? I used it anyway, light misting

and we shall see what happens, will keep it updated

side note, I also gave the babies their first dose of the Dynagro Protk, I had seen where a few folks using it said that a) the ph was like 10 but when I mixed it as directed (1/2 teaspoon to a gallon of water) with brita filtered water it did not raise the ph at all and b) that when mixed with nutes it caused precipitates in the mixture, I did not do this so have no comment, but will try it later to check it out and report back once I do

Final word is I have to repair/fix the problem before I can gift these plants and make sure my garden is not infected


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## riddleme (Aug 10, 2010)

only been a few hours since I sprayed them, took a look at several infected leaves and can not find one living mite, seems the Knock Out killed them all pretty fast now just wait and see what happens with the eggs?

Still no signs of em on my plants and as yet no harm at all from the Veggie Pharm misting


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## beaver heater (Aug 10, 2010)

thats a bummer about the mites, but it is good you caught them early and while the plants are still small.. Good luck.


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## cindergrow (Aug 10, 2010)

With the CMH are you setting the light height from the top of the plants for a specific number of foot candle? If so, what is the number? I seem to remember you mentioning 5000-7200. Thanks


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## riddleme (Aug 10, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> With the CMH are you setting the light height from the top of the plants for a specific number of foot candle? If so, what is the number? I seem to remember you mentioning 5000-7200. Thanks


I adjusted the light to hit the top of the homer buckets with 7000, the plants (sitting on the upsidedown buckets) canopy is about 10 inches above that and the canopy is getting 9000 lumens


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## cindergrow (Aug 10, 2010)

So as they grow will you try to maintain this 9000 number. Sorry for what is probably a very Noob question, but this is my first go around and I have come to trust your advise.kiss-ass


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## riddleme (Aug 10, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> So as they grow will you try to maintain this 9000 number. Sorry for what is probably a very Noob question, but this is my first go around and I have come to trust your advise.kiss-ass


as stated earlier, gonna let grow into it


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## gumball (Aug 10, 2010)

hey, about the spider mites, i read a bunch of what sounded like good advice some folks were giving in this thread. if you want to thumb through, i remember a lot of discussion in the 60-70 page range, a lot of BS'ing too, but you know...

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/327580-my-growitup-greenhouse-grow-2010-a-63.html

he has a massive medical grow in cali, and got a pretty bad infection. pulled through it well though. so far...

hope you get them clean, i have read so many bad things about them boogers


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## riddleme (Aug 10, 2010)

gumball said:


> hey, about the spider mites, i read a bunch of what sounded like good advice some folks were giving in this thread. if you want to thumb through, i remember a lot of discussion in the 60-70 page range, a lot of BS'ing too, but you know...
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/327580-my-growitup-greenhouse-grow-2010-a-63.html
> 
> ...


well so far so good can't find any that are alive, so just gonna keep watchin em and see what happens?


----------



## gumball (Aug 10, 2010)

i understand, just passing along some info. from what i have read, they are really hard to get rid of, but i am not sure how many is hard to get rid of.


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## riddleme (Aug 10, 2010)

gumball said:


> i understand, just passing along some info. from what i have read, they are really hard to get rid of, but i am not sure how many is hard to get rid of.


appears I caught them early, and this doctor doom seems to kill them pretty fast, plus I had treated my whole basement with spectrcide before building the grow area. don't know for sure yet (of course) but it is looking like they will be ok, but thanks for the link!


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## cowboylogic (Aug 10, 2010)

riddleme said:


> well so far so good can't find any that are alive, so just gonna keep watchin em and see what happens?


Thats the key with mites. Nip it in the bud as Barney would say.


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## riddleme (Aug 11, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Thats the key with mites. Nip it in the bud as Barney would say.


Yeppers, looking this morning I can not even find any eggs, so Doctor Doom Spider Mite Knock Out gets 2 thumbs up

on the other hand the Veggie Pharm natural organic oils get a caution warning as I am seeing new growth tips are burned on all 4, because it is the same on all 4 makes me pretty sure it was the spray, delicate new growth and UV that has caused the damage, which is minor and the plants seem to be working past it so I'm not overly concerned, but will advise if you use this stuff don't do it with the lights on. And I think the not for indoor use could be the strong smell as my whole house smelled like pepermint last night


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## cowboylogic (Aug 11, 2010)

I love Doktor Doom foggers and spray. Start with a fog. Then every 3 days a light spray across the canopy with Knockout just before lights out. In 10 days or so. Mites gone.


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## Murfy (Aug 11, 2010)

this is wha ti use on vegging plants-

1/4 cup Baking Soda
1/2 cup Apple Cider vinegar
1 Tablespoon Lemon Juice
2 drops dish detergent
1/4 Teaspoon Epsom Salts

Take a cup of very hot water and dissolve the epsom salts,take rest of ingredients and place in a clean 2 liter bottle and let work out. Add epsom solution. Add water to fill to 48ozs(3/4 full).Shake well.

TO USE: Cover soil/medium with plastic,with lights off mist plant all over,especially under leaves,
Wait 20 mins,then spritz off with clean fresh water shaking as much water off plant as you can.
The fresh water spritz rinse will remove the solution along with the dissolved remains of the mites and their eggs.

i also use this to treat walls walkways and such. for tender or stressed plants i mix to one gallon instead of full strength.
*don't use this on flowering plants!* it does need to be rinsed somewhat.


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## riddleme (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks for the recipe, but I really like the doctor doom, came home for lunch and still can not find any mites or eggs


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## xshooterx (Aug 11, 2010)

So is that spider mite damage to the underside of the large leaf at right bottom of your up shot? Wasn't sure if that was actually on the leaf or color crossover in the pic?


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## riddleme (Aug 11, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> So is that spider mite damage to the underside of the large leaf at right bottom of your up shot? Wasn't sure if that was actually on the leaf or color crossover in the pic?


has to be a color camera thing cause the only visible SM damage is on top of the leafs


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## xshooterx (Aug 11, 2010)

Mel Frank has some interesting fixes for mites and other pests. One is planting a companion crop, garlic and/or onions. Another is a folier spray of milk and flour and water. Hey I wouldn't mind my grow room smelling like garlic!lol Glad you whacked the dreaded spider mites Riddle.


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## donni101 (Aug 11, 2010)

took me 3 days to read this. I love the make it rain on them hoes. I want to try this first chance I get. for make it rain while flowering how exactly do you water? i have to believe everybody when they say you the truth. Im learning as we go kinda wish I didnt catch up to the end but glad I can now input without asking the same questions over and over. no offense. cant wait to see these girls grow.


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## riddleme (Aug 11, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Mel Frank has some interesting fixes for mites and other pests. One is planting a companion crop, garlic and/or onions. Another is a folier spray of milk and flour and water. Hey I wouldn't mind my grow room smelling like garlic!lol Glad you whacked the dreaded spider mites Riddle.


Got lucky, caught em early



donni101 said:


> took me 3 days to read this. I love the make it rain on them hoes. I want to try this first chance I get. for make it rain while flowering how exactly do you water? i have to believe everybody when they say you the truth. Im learning as we go kinda wish I didnt catch up to the end but glad I can now input without asking the same questions over and over. no offense. cant wait to see these girls grow.


Welcome to the thread, and don't worry my threads never really end LOL and I'm told it takes weeks to read all of my threads

Watering during flower is the same pour 2 to 3 times the pot size thru the medium slowly

Ahhh but tonight I did rain on em, kinda did a Mom Nature experiment, I raised the heat to 85 this morning, then when I came home I lowered it and turned the big fan up a notch, then I turned the big light off (had regular basement lights on) then I sprayed em ALOT till they dripped like it was raining then I waited an hour and turned the big light back on

My babies got a real rain storm, now we'll see how they respond?

Note I did this to wash off the oils that burnt them, but if they show me they like it, I'll do it again


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## Illumination (Aug 11, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Got lucky, caught em early
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can't wait for the outcome

Namaste' my friend/teacher


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## riddleme (Aug 12, 2010)

They like it 

they grew nicely last night 1/2 inch to an inch in places, they are working on making the secondary branches after the topping, which are all doing nicely despite the oils spray burning them, gonna wait till regular Sat update for pics


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## Tarkfu (Aug 12, 2010)

Awesome. Mother Nature knows how to take care of her babies


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## riddleme (Aug 12, 2010)

who wants to have some fun?

I posted in this thread awhile back trying to lead folks to my harvest ditty and it got lets say entertaining, so I invite those of you that enjoy a bit of debate to go check it out, not a long thread (4 pages) have fun my friends settin these folks straight

one said I'm either telling the biggest fish story or I am the grandmaster of MJ growing LOL

here it is
https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/51042-smells-like-hay-help.html


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## riddleme (Aug 12, 2010)

Well I did it again, they liked it so much and I was seeing some more damage from that damn garlic spray so turned out the big light and sprayed em down again, secondary branches are now an inch tall think I may have me some damn weeds a growing


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## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 12, 2010)

right on brother, might need some mid-week updates for us followers.


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## Illumination (Aug 12, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> right on brother, might need some mid-week updates for us followers.


Absolutely correct......

Namaste'


----------



## cowboylogic (Aug 12, 2010)

riddleme said:


> who wants to have some fun?
> 
> I posted in this thread awhile back trying to lead folks to my harvest ditty and it got lets say entertaining, so I invite those of you that enjoy a bit of debate to go check it out, not a long thread (4 pages) have fun my friends settin these folks straight
> 
> ...


I feel a drowning coming on...........edit: I remember my Corkle.


----------



## riddleme (Aug 12, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> right on brother, might need some mid-week updates for us followers.





Illumination said:


> Absolutely correct......
> 
> Namaste'


Ok you guys twisted my arm, here is good old #2, 3 days after being topped, 2 days after being stressed/burnt with garlic spray, 1 day after a storm, and 3 hours after a lite rain


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## riddleme (Aug 13, 2010)

and here is a whole garden shot including guest (still no sign of mites) and I should point out that the guest are 5 1/2 feet away from edge of light hood and yet still enjoying the light (as you can see) *GOT CMH?* 
(sorry but I have to keep saying that)

#2 is 6 inches tall and #4 is 8 inches tall (damn sativa pheno) they are still on 18/6 will start counting down in week 5, they got one feeding of Jack's this week (full strength) also plan on upcanning sometime during week 5

Have a Great Day


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## Danielsgb (Aug 13, 2010)

I looked at the Hay thread and you must just be telling fish stories. 4500+ posts, come on Riddleme. He seems to know lots. Autumn fall colors are for Perennial *Trees*, but hey feed 'em high P Bloom nutes right? Wow Myth's won't die. Great looking girls you got.
Daniels


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## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> #2 is 6 inches tall and #4 is 8 inches tall *(damn sativa pheno)* they are still on 18/6 will start counting down in week 5, they got one feeding of Jack's this week (full strength) also plan on upcanning sometime during week 5
> 
> Have a Great Day


Can I change my bet? I had #2 pegged as the male but I want to change to #4 after reading the sensi seeds description. 

#4 is the BOY !

Sensi Seeds has adapted this picture-perfect Afghanica genotype for optimum indoor performance, making the world&#8217;s most powerful *pure Indica* accessible to every grower.


----------



## riddleme (Aug 13, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Can I change my bet? I had #2 pegged as the male but I want to change to #4 after reading the sensi seeds description.
> 
> #4 is the BOY !
> 
> Sensi Seeds has adapted this picture-perfect Afghanica genotype for optimum indoor performance, making the world&#8217;s most powerful *pure Indica* accessible to every grower.


don't change your bet just yet as #4 is a KC Brains NL Special


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## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 13, 2010)

dammit, ya follow a guys journal and ya think you know a grow..... and don't know shit ! Swing and a miss !

Like my grandfather used to say "buy 'em books and send 'em to skool, what do they do? Eat the covers"

Guess I got a belly full.


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## Illumination (Aug 13, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> dammit, ya follow a guys journal and ya think you know a grow..... and don't know shit ! Swing and a miss !
> 
> Like my grandfather used to say "buy 'em books and send 'em to skool, what do they do? Eat the covers"
> 
> Guess I got a belly full.


My Father had a similar but more pronounced address for me:

"Buy him books and send him to school and what does he do? Smoke the pages, eat the covers, and fuck the teachers!!!"

Hope I made him proud...LMAO!

Namaste'


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## bigman4270 (Aug 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> who wants to have some fun?
> 
> I posted in this thread awhile back trying to lead folks to my harvest ditty and it got lets say entertaining, so I invite those of you that enjoy a bit of debate to go check it out, not a long thread (4 pages) have fun my friends settin these folks straight
> 
> ...


Look what ya started! Ya got em thinking now.



https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/357460-drowning-plant-prior-harvest.html


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## R C Glasscock (Aug 13, 2010)

Hi riddleme, 
Wanted to thank you for all the great information that you put out here. I think I've learned a lot and Im going to put it to use. 
I just got a cmh to use on my new grow. I also got the dyna gro pro tekt and was wanting to know if I should follow the directions for fruit and vegetables or use at a lower dose.
I really appreciate your help.


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## riddleme (Aug 13, 2010)

R C Glasscock said:


> Hi riddleme,
> Wanted to thank you for all the great information that you put out here. I think I've learned a lot and Im going to put it to use.
> I just got a cmh to use on my new grow. I also got the dyna gro pro tekt and was wanting to know if I should follow the directions for fruit and vegetables or use at a lower dose.
> I really appreciate your help.


I would say lower dose when they are young, I did not start using it till week 4 at 1/2 strength, once they are mature and/or in flower I will be going full strength


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## riddleme (Aug 13, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> Look what ya started! Ya got em thinking now.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/357460-drowning-plant-prior-harvest.html


not only thinkin but discussin


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## donni101 (Aug 13, 2010)

i tried the make it rain for the first time. when should i do it again? once soil is dry? or slightly moist? i saw i lot of good growth 1.5 days after water.


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## riddleme (Aug 13, 2010)

donni101 said:


> i tried the make it rain for the first time. when should i do it again? once soil is dry? or slightly moist? i saw i lot of good growth 1.5 days after water.


totally up to the plant, if you are feeding then you wait till the top 3 inches of soil are dry, if just water wait till at least 75% of the whole pot is dry


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## riddleme (Aug 14, 2010)

Well I fed them hard this morning, mixed protk, epsom salts, molasses, jack's because of this damn damage from the garlic spray it is hard to tell for sure whether or not there is a cal/mag issue, looking at the damaged leaves it could be so the addition of epsom salts was a precautionary measure to see if that is what might be going on. It's all lower leaves that are affected and it won't hurt anything if the plant drops them, but since I am going to be transplanting them this week I feel I need to err to the side of caution.

Even with the twisted arm mid week pic of #2 (which I really did not want to post) you can see more explosive growth,,,,,,,,,,,Enjoy!


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## gumball (Aug 14, 2010)

what you talking about, all those pics are worth posting!! i did see a little of what you were referring to, but nothing major at this point.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 14, 2010)

Very nice Riddle. you sure thats not Kudzu?


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## riddleme (Aug 14, 2010)

gumball said:


> what you talking about, all those pics are worth posting!! i did see a little of what you were referring to, but nothing major at this point.


Yeah it's minor, was hoping for a grow with no problems LOL, but I also understand that it is good for the lurkers to see how I deal with things



cowboylogic said:


> Very nice Riddle. you sure thats not Kudzu?


what the hell is a kudzu???


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## cowboylogic (Aug 14, 2010)

Thanks to Eleanor Roosevelt its over-growing the south. Its an ivy like plant that grows at an incredible rate. Overgrows entire trees.
http://www.kudzuworld.com/Kudzu/index.en.aspx


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## gumball (Aug 14, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Thanks to Eleanor Roosevelt its over-growing the south. Its an ivy like plant that grows at an incredible rate. Overgrows entire trees.


it really is a beautiful problem though in my opinion. i live in NC, and it covers a lot. it makes old delapidated building look much better. i enjoy the look of it. though they say it is damn near impossible to kill once established.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 14, 2010)

gumball said:


> it really is a beautiful problem though in my opinion. i live in NC, and it covers a lot. it makes old delapidated building look much better. i enjoy the look of it. though they say it is damn near impossible to kill once established.


They say 10-15yrs to control an established plot. It may be pretty but it still a predator.


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## gumball (Aug 14, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> They say 10-15yrs to control an established plot. It may be pretty but it still a predator.


yep! i think it is all dependent on the area, ya know. high erosion areas could probably gain great benefit from it. kinda like everything else, what its meant for and then how its used are what shape how we behold it in our world. kudzu was not used to wisely


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## reefacheefa (Aug 14, 2010)

those babies look so pretty maaaan


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## riddleme (Aug 14, 2010)

here is a better pic of the damage I'm talking about, just so everyone can see


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## reefacheefa (Aug 14, 2010)

thats not bad man, hopefully your concoction will clear her up. wish you the best!! you think its mag though?


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## bigman4270 (Aug 14, 2010)

Lookin good brother, lookin good.


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## riddleme (Aug 14, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> thats not bad man, hopefully your concoction will clear her up. wish you the best!! you think its mag though?


It could be a cal/mag thing, though not pronounced, leaning towards it being the garlic spray since it occured right after but better safe than sorry and a dab of mag won't hurt em


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## reefacheefa (Aug 14, 2010)

thought garlic was supposed to be a safe, organic type of thing?? dont they use it for bugs?


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## riddleme (Aug 14, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> thought garlic was supposed to be a safe, organic type of thing?? dont they use it for bugs?


yes but it was in a organic safe soap mixture also has pepermint oil and had a warning not to use indoors (which I thought was because of smell) and it is well known (ask UB) that some of the so called safe soaps cause MJ to burn


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## reefacheefa (Aug 14, 2010)

thats bad news man, what kind of infestation did you have?? or just preventative maintenance?


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## riddleme (Aug 14, 2010)

Spider Mites, story a few pages back


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## riddleme (Aug 14, 2010)

I am now officially a Caregiver and have my first 2 patients woohoo


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## gumball (Aug 14, 2010)

great news! do yall have collectives and the sort in colorado like they do in cali? i would assume everything would be real similar, but who knows.


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## riddleme (Aug 14, 2010)

gumball said:


> great news! do yall have collectives and the sort in colorado like they do in cali? i would assume everything would be real similar, but who knows.


no, in fact they just pased a new law that totally screwed the pooch and changed everything, it was getting out of hand so they over regulated it, caregivers are now limited to 5 patients and can not sell overages/extra to disp's any longer

my main reason was a family member asked me and I needed to cover my plant count


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## BIGDAVE (Aug 15, 2010)

Hey Riddleme, Ive been following many of your post and want to thank you for all the hard work. Serioulsy Man. Awesome. I actually submitted a newsletter Piece that includes reference to you and your make it rain thread here. I can pm you the link. again +rep.


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## Delux83 (Aug 15, 2010)

thats awesome riddleme congrats!
you werent really over your plant count with 4 plants were u?


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## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> thats awesome riddleme congrats!
> you werent really over your plant count with 4 plants were u?


depends on how you look at it, we're allowed 6 plants but it is supposed to be 2 in seed/clone, 2 in veg and 2 in flower, since I think I have 2 males I'm technically ok but then the guest came adding 2 more (both females) they were not supposed to stay but had to because of the mites, so yeah a bit of covering my ass going on


----------



## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

BIGDAVE said:


> Hey Riddleme, Ive been following many of your post and want to thank you for all the hard work. Serioulsy Man. Awesome. I actually submitted a newsletter Piece that includes reference to you and your make it rain thread here. I can pm you the link. again +rep.


would love the link, thanks


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## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

gonna do the plant #2 thing again, side by side update pic from yesterday with new pic from this morning, this is after feeding em that little tonic I made and I gave em another lite rain last night (sprayed a whole pint onto em)

please remember *less is more* if you try to duplicate the tonic, for the epsom salts (MAG) I take 1 tablespoon and disolve it in a pint of water then use that as a nute, so in this new tonic 1 teaspoon of the epsom tea (as I call it) 1/4 teaspoon of ProtK, 1/8 teaspoon of Jack's and 1/2 teaspoon molasses to a gallon of water, it will precipitate the mag and protk make a white crystaline thingy happen in the water so be sure to shake it up real good before pouring it on plants

Note, I would *not* use this for every feeding 

now that is what you call a growth spurt


----------



## rastadred22 (Aug 15, 2010)

looks good!! alooot of new growth


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## bigman4270 (Aug 15, 2010)

riddleme said:


> gonna do the plant #2 thing again, side by side update pic from yesterday with new pic from this morning, this is after feeding em that little tonic I made and I gave em another lite rain last night (sprayed a whole pint onto em)
> 
> please remember *less is more* if you try to duplicate the tonic, for the epsom salts (MAG) I take 1 tablespoon and disolve it in a pint of water then use that as a nute, so in this new tonic 1 teaspoon of the epsom tea (as I call it) 1/4 teaspoon of ProtK, 1/8 teaspoon of Jack's and 1/2 teaspoon molasses to a gallon of water, it will precipitate the mag and protk make a white crystalline thingy happen in the water so be sure to shake it up real good before pouring it on plants
> 
> ...


Right on brother, definitely a growth spurt happening. Got a quick question? I am also using the Pro teKt because of the CMH and fast growth. Have you determined how you will use it? I know we can tell what the plant wants as far as our nutes go, but what about the Silica? I know there is no schedule but was just wondering what you look for to determine it's use or just add when you would be feeding them anyway?

Hope it make sense?


----------



## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> Right on brother, definitely a growth spurt happening. Got a quick question? I am also using the Pro teKt because of the CMH and fast growth. Have you determined how you will use it? I know we can tell what the plant wants as far as our nutes go, but what about the Silica? I know there is no schedule but was just wondering what you look for to determine it's use or just add when you would be feeding them anyway?
> 
> Hope it make sense?


right now I am going real slow, 2 reasons, they are in soil and all soil has silica in it (2nd most common element on earth) and they were/are young so weening them onto it while I watch and what I notice is that new growth seems more narley looking comming out but then shifts to normal looking once established

once I get em in the big pots and in soilless mix I will be using it half strength every watering, so the last gallon I use to rain on em will have the protk in it


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## bigman4270 (Aug 15, 2010)

so the silica left behind from the rain will prep the roots for nutrient uptake along with the other added benefits too?


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## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> so the silica left behind from the rain will prep the roots for nutrient uptake along with the other added benefits too?


hell if I know? my first time using it, so treading softly and watching closely


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## bigman4270 (Aug 15, 2010)

right on, me too!


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## Illumination (Aug 15, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> right on, me too!


Upon using the protekt on my grapevines outdoors prior to using on my plants I noticed the precipitation when mixed in with the nutes. Upon looking further into this I found that the reason they do not add it to the concentrated nute mix is because in high concentrations silica can only be maintained water soluble at high ph. Upon further experimentation found that regardless of how dilute the nute solution, precipitation would still occur. As I feel that the precipitation would make the silica and whatever else it is reacting with unavailable I have either added it to my last gallon of "rain" intermittently or alternately nutes on last gallon of rain then protekt only in water when it is almost finished "wicking" Also I have used it every other "rain" as I also have Azomite included in my soil mix which is primarily a form of silica. Also I have been giving it to them since pretty much they sprouted and refrained from mixing it with anything else. Also am finding that Dynagro's levels are low so I have increased dosage of their products in comparisons with Jack's. We will see ...

My two cents for what it is worth.

Namaste'


----------



## BIGDAVE (Aug 15, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/contests/234324-newsletter-submissions-4.html#post4516975



riddleme said:


> would love the link, thanks


----------



## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

BIGDAVE said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/contests/234324-newsletter-submissions-4.html#post4516975


very nice article, well done!


----------



## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 15, 2010)

riddleme said:


> depends on how you look at it, we're allowed 6 plants but it is supposed to be 2 in seed/clone, 2 in veg and 2 in flower, since I think I have 2 males I'm technically ok but then the guest came adding 2 more (both females) they were not supposed to stay but had to because of the mites, so yeah a bit of covering my ass going on


They actually only limit you to half in flowering. If you wanted to keep all 6 vegging they wouldn't care. Also those I've talked with that have had a visit from leo, said they only counted the plants, didn't care about light cycles. Furthermore, it actually says no more than half of your count can be 'mature', which is highly debatable as well. It's certainly not mature 2 weeks into flowering. No one has ever gone to jail or been charged with too many plants in flowering, just being over their plant count. 

And the plants look great BTW


----------



## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 15, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Upon using the protekt on my grapevines outdoors prior to using on my plants I noticed the precipitation when mixed in with the nutes. Upon looking further into this I found that the reason they do not add it to the concentrated nute mix is because in high concentrations silica can only be maintained water soluble at high ph. Upon further experimentation found that regardless of how dilute the nute solution, precipitation would still occur. As I feel that the precipitation would make the silica and whatever else it is reacting with unavailable I have either added it to my last gallon of "rain" intermittently or alternately nutes on last gallon of rain then protekt only in water when it is almost finished "wicking" Also I have used it every other "rain" as I also have Azomite included in my soil mix which is primarily a form of silica. Also I have been giving it to them since pretty much they sprouted and refrained from mixing it with anything else. Also am finding that Dynagro's levels are low so I have increased dosage of their products in comparisons with Jack's. We will see ...
> 
> My two cents for what it is worth.
> 
> Namaste'


Wow, thank you so much for that ! Great information brother


----------



## rastadred22 (Aug 15, 2010)

has neone heard of ultra-sol 20-20-20? we use it in our water mix for the greenhouse and use it from veg thru to flower.. we use it for poinsettas and citrus trees does anyone kno about it? and do uthink it would be alright for herb? also they have instructions for a tobacco field and its safe for tobacco..


----------



## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> has neone heard of ultra-sol 20-20-20? we use it in our water mix for the greenhouse and use it from veg thru to flower.. we use it for poinsettas and citrus trees does anyone kno about it? and do uthink it would be alright for herb? also they have instructions for a tobacco field and its safe for tobacco..


20-20-20 makes it an all purpose just like Jack's should work just fine for MJ


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## rastadred22 (Aug 15, 2010)

nice that makes me happy!


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## cowboylogic (Aug 15, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> They actually only limit you to half in flowering. If you wanted to keep all 6 vegging they wouldn't care. Also those I've talked with that have had a visit from leo, said they only counted the plants, didn't care about light cycles. Furthermore, it actually says no more than half of your count can be 'mature', which is highly debatable as well. It's certainly not mature 2 weeks into flowering. No one has ever gone to jail or been charged with too many plants in flowering, just being over their plant count.
> 
> And the plants look great BTW


Sounds like the same, same so to speak here in the mitten. The legislation/law is written with alot of grey areas. And is very much open to interpretation. It all depends on the county you live in. Some county sheriffs have a huge chip on thier shoulder. Others realize they have better things to do than redneck those doing thier best to remain within the guidelines. And for the most part the State Police try to stay out of it. Unless called in by Leo or a Barney Fife.


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## cowboylogic (Aug 15, 2010)

riddleme said:


> 20-20-20 makes it an all purpose just like Jack's should work just fine for MJ


Been wanting to ask you this for awhile now. But has been slipping my mind. Whats your opinion on urea as a component of fert? I personally try to stay away from it in container gardening.


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## rastadred22 (Aug 15, 2010)

cant wait! u kno im payin attention


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## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Been wanting to ask you this for awhile now. But has been slipping my mind. Whats your opinion on urea as a component of fert? I personally try to stay away from it in container gardening.


N is N to the plant IMHO, looking at it from Mom Natures point of view before we had indoor plumbing pretty much everything is something plants can use once broken down

and if bat and chicken shit are ok what's wrong with a bit of piss?


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## cowboylogic (Aug 15, 2010)

I agree urea is urea. I see why like Jacks. Just checked out its content. Almost all of the N is urea. Same with organics. Except ammonia in place of the nitrates. (edit poo to be more specific.) You know what you are working with. So many all purpose mixes are near equal parts, urea, ammonia and nitrates for the N source. It can be hard to control IMO. I found a local dealer so I think I will get some to use on the Amnesia Lemons in the Top or not thread. I have a good idea what to expect from them so it will be a good comparison for me.


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## riddleme (Aug 15, 2010)

WooHoo over 10 thousand views in just 5 weeks, my girls are likin the attention lol

and even better Broncos lost


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

Got a few updates for ya today, been busy, so let's get started

First let's look at #2 some more we will go back to the week 4 update (already saw the first 2 pics but puttin em here to compare) pic 1 was Sat, pic 2 was Sun, pic 3 was this morning and pic 4 was 10 hours later (right before transplant)

You can almost watch em grow


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

I took these pic's as part of my ongoing effort to prove points about light and shade and why I say don't prune blah blah blah

as you can clearly see in the pics' (this is plant #4 by the way) the new branch in the back is shaded by the nasty big fan leaf hovering over it, yet the side view shows that the 2 branches from that node have grown exactly the same (hieght & size) one is in the light and one is in the shade, yet growth is the same Damn I thought everybody said shade leaves were a bad thing? Well most everybody cause I'm not saying it!!!


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## rastadred22 (Aug 16, 2010)

they lookin real good i just topped my babi today!!


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

Got my little Calcined Clay balls today and my new veg nutes so we're getting ready to transplant, can't wait to see how they like it?

the nutes was a 25lb bag for $28, should last awhile


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## gumball (Aug 16, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Got my little Calcined Clay balls today and my new veg nutes so we're getting ready to transplant, can't wait to see how they like it?
> 
> the nutes was a 25lb bag for $28, should last awhile


i try to follow most threads, but dont have the time to keep up like i like. but i dont remember the clay balls, and i dont remember you going hydro!! so what do ya do with that stuff?


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

first you prepare the bucket, though it has been pointed out to me that it serves no useful purpose, I have always covered the drain holes with something, with Tilders I used Perlite and now I'm using the Clay Balls, next I an filling the buckets one gallon (approx) at a time and adding a tablespoon of Dolomite Lime to each gallon layer. Then I place a same size pot where the plant will go and fill in around it, removing it makes a nice correct sized nest, then in goes the plant.

I did make it rain on them this morning (plain water) to put them to sleep, why I decided to do this today as it is stress free to transplant right after a rain. Normally I would have watered the new mix in the pot and let it set for a few days, but no time for that so I did the circle water thing around the outside edge of the pot, so that once they have wicked the water out of the Happy Frogs they can go find water in the SunShine Mix and I added my new veg nutes to the water at full strength, since the SunShine has no real nutes in it though the bag does give an NPK value (it is very low)

and we are off and spurtin


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

gumball said:


> i try to follow most threads, but dont have the time to keep up like i like. but i dont remember the clay balls, and i dont remember you going hydro!! so what do ya do with that stuff?


mix em in with the SunShine Mix #4, I wrote a Ditty on it, found here,,,,,,,,
https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog366-calcined-clay-well-kept-secret.html

PS not going hydro LOL


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

I should also point out that this will lower the canapy but they are gettin the 7000 lumens I planned on, they may slow a bit till they dig into that new mix, but not concerned about that.

Also the lights are now once again on 17/7 as we work back down to 12/12 

Should also point out there was no root ball showing, they still had plenty of room in the little pots

One more thing, I was gonna mix in some diatomite (DynaRok) but decided against it since this is my first time using the silica (diatomite is silica rock, slow releasing like dolomite)


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## WWShadow (Aug 16, 2010)

ok, stupid question time. How many holes are in each bucket & what size are they?


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

7 spaced 5 inches apart used a 1/2 inch drill bit


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## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 16, 2010)

Hey Riddleme, I got a question for ya. After reading what Illumination found on the dyan-protekt, I am looking to use it on the rain days rather than the feed days.

I am wondering whether I should make that the first thing that hits them or the last, don't plan to use it for the entire flush. I was even considering giving them that, waiting an hour then making it rain or making it rain, wait an hour then hit them with protk. Even considered maybe putting them in a pan with a few inches of protekt and letting them wik it up, then rain?

Further, when we make it rain, do you think that the soil retains what it is saturated with first? Or do you think it is worked from the top to the bottom? Once it's saturated, isn't the rest just 'running by' the saturated soil?


Thanks man

PS someone was looking for you at the SS


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Hey Riddleme, I got a question for ya. After reading what Illumination found on the dyan-protekt, I am looking to use it on the rain days rather than the feed days.
> 
> I am wondering whether I should make that the first thing that hits them or the last, don't plan to use it for the entire flush. I was even considering giving them that, waiting an hour then making it rain or making it rain, wait an hour then hit them with protk. Even considered maybe putting them in a pan with a few inches of protekt and letting them wik it up, then rain?
> 
> ...


that is something I have not researched, I would do it in the last gallon, but can't say why (yet) 

and I had no problem with mixin em, as you can see the growth spurts in just a day, would be a problem in hydro though


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## Illumination (Aug 16, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Hey Riddleme, I got a question for ya. After reading what Illumination found on the dyan-protekt, I am looking to use it on the rain days rather than the feed days.
> 
> I am wondering whether I should make that the first thing that hits them or the last, don't plan to use it for the entire flush. I was even considering giving them that, waiting an hour then making it rain or making it rain, wait an hour then hit them with protk. Even considered maybe putting them in a pan with a few inches of protekt and letting them wik it up, then rain?
> 
> ...


 I have begun feeding using the last gallon of rain with full strength nutes. I use 5 gallons to rain now as after the second or third gallon the ppm remains around 60 all the rest even when I used 15 gallons it still never fell below 60. So I go five and now I give them the feed in the last of the 5 gallons. It takes 2- 3 hours to rain and the last feed gallon I take 30 minutes to give it to it . At 420 ppm nutes going in the runoff comes up to 170. This has eliminated the light nute deficiencies that were appearing while they were wicking. They also seem to be responding best to this method. I then when by weight they are 2/3 way done wicking I add 1 gallon with the beneficials, Big Bloom, Protekt, EA, EN, and/or molasses.

This is what I have come to find works best.... for now....lol...I LOVE THE CHESS GAME WITH THE GIRLS!

Namaste' my friends

ps-RMH I invite you to come and view my grow in my sig and get your opinions. And I love the Skool and it's atmosphere. Lots of wisdom knowledge and no one puts up with stupidity. Awesome...thank you


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## riddleme (Aug 16, 2010)

Illumination said:


> I have begun feeding using the last gallon of rain with full strength nutes. I use 5 gallons to rain now as after the second or third gallon the ppm remains around 60 all the rest even when I used 15 gallons it still never fell below 60. So I go five and now I give them the feed in the last of the 5 gallons. It takes 2- 3 hours to rain and the last feed gallon I take 30 minutes to give it to it . At 420 ppm nutes going in the runoff comes up to 170. This has eliminated the light nute deficiencies that were appearing while they were wicking. They also seem to be responding best to this method. I then when by weight they are 2/3 way done wicking I add 1 gallon with the beneficials, Big Bloom, Protekt, EA, EN, and/or molasses.
> 
> This is what I have come to find works best.... for now....lol...I LOVE THE CHESS GAME WITH THE GIRLS!
> 
> ...


I have tried it that way and kinda found that what I do works best for me but it is good that you are adapting it to you and that is good info for folks reading the thread to see, it is not etched in stone and every garden is different, so play with things and experiment to find the niche that works best for "you"

good stuff!


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## reefacheefa (Aug 17, 2010)

love that day to day growth update!!! looking great bud, and i bet they do love the attention lol. little whores!


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## reefacheefa (Aug 17, 2010)

o man, ive got a question for you about your make it rain piece. you are talking about flushing with every watering and then feed with nutes once she is ready for more moisture, right?


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## riddleme (Aug 17, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> o man, ive got a question for you about your make it rain piece. you are talking about flushing with every watering and then feed with nutes once she is ready for more moisture, right?


No, read it again, sounds like you are confusing it with the forum hype, you feed when the top is dry 3 inches down (forum hype says water when dry 3 inches down)

and Illumination just post that he feeds with the last gallon of the flush, other growers do it that way as well and it will work, just not how I do it


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## reefacheefa (Aug 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> No, read it again, sounds like you are confusing it with the forum hype, you feed when the top is dry 3 inches down (forum hype says water when dry 3 inches down)


thats what i meant, i read it twice and it seems like your saying to flush when you use only water, then use nutes when its time to water again?? am i still wrong?


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## riddleme (Aug 17, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> thats what i meant, i read it twice and it seems like your saying to flush when you use only water, then use nutes when its time to water again?? am i still wrong?


Yes still wrong, because you are thinking that dry 3 inches down is time to water again IT IS NOT (well unless your in a party cup)

time to water again would be when the pot is over 75 to 80% dry, even in a 1 gallon pot 3 inches down is less than 20%


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## reefacheefa (Aug 17, 2010)

i go by weight for my watering. of course she went limp on me a few times before i got the hang of it... i didnt say that is when to water.


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## riddleme (Aug 17, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> i go by weight for my watering. of course she went limp on me a few times before i got the hang of it... i didnt say that is when to water.


then what are you confused about???


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## reefacheefa (Aug 17, 2010)

if you mean to flush everytime you use only water, and then use the nutes when the soils almost dry from the watering. from what i understand, you flush to put her to sleep, then she wakes up and goes into "hyper drive" or something lol. therefore that water dries up pretty quick and then you feed when shes almost dried up again


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## riddleme (Aug 17, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> if you mean to flush everytime you use only water, and then use the nutes when the soils almost dry from the watering


flush with water PH'd to 5.8, then when soil/medium is dry 3 inches down add nutes till you get a slight runoff

note the 3 inches part applies to pots 1 gallon and larger

did you read the ditty? posted here,,,,,,,
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/347914-balls-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-32.html#post4480637


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## gumball (Aug 17, 2010)

Do you think that is why hempy buckets do well, because there is no nutrients in the soiless mix, so every water/feed cycle is like a make it rain? I know you haven't done hempy, just something I have been thinking about watching you and reefa go back and forth about making it rain.


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## reefacheefa (Aug 17, 2010)

lol, no, i read the one in calling all noobs. never caught the beginning of this one


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## riddleme (Aug 17, 2010)

gumball said:


> Do you think that is why hempy buckets do well, because there is no nutrients in the soiless mix, so every water/feed cycle is like a make it rain? I know you haven't done hempy, just something I have been thinking about watching you and reefa go back and forth about making it rain.


yes basically makin it rain is hydro in soil



reefacheefa said:


> lol, no, i read the one in calling all noobs. never caught the beginning of this one


that link I just posted goes straight to the ditty, you should read it


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## gumball (Aug 17, 2010)

That's what I have been thinking, actually before this conversation.


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## reefacheefa (Aug 17, 2010)

i just finished it, that is much easier to understand! the last one i read before you started ph'n the water down to 5.8. thank you very much good sir


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## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> yes basically makin it rain is hydro in soil


It's a beautiful hybrid in my mind. If we can get the vigor and speed of hydro with the flavors, smells and terpins of soil, watch out !


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## reefacheefa (Aug 17, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> It's a beautiful hybrid in my mind. If we can get the vigor and speed of hydro with the flavors, smells and terpins of soil, watch out !


 it is a great thought isnt it?? i bought some coco liners from wally world for 3 bucks. gonna cut out the bottom of my pots and make some smart pots with em lol. i think thats the way to go these days, been seeing alot of hydro results from soil with these airpots and smart pots


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## gumball (Aug 17, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> It's a beautiful hybrid in my mind. If we can get the vigor and speed of hydro with the flavors, smells and terpins of soil, watch out !


Now that brings an interesting question, one which y'all may not know cause your soil guys. But would a soilless perlite/vermiculite mix still produce the smell/flavors and other benefits which soil gives? I have been tinkering an idea around, may try it with a indoor tomato plant first so I don't waste any of the good stuff. I think it would be considered a cross between hempy and DWC. I am just hesitant because I don't want to lose that smell taste combo. Maybe a 3 part solution of soil/perlite/vermiculite in a Hempy with bottom inch of substrate raised for an air stone to make air bubbles. 

Like I said, just an idea, but I love my MJ tastes and smells!!


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## riddleme (Aug 17, 2010)

gumball said:


> Now that brings an interesting question, one which y'all may not know cause your soil guys. But would a soilless perlite/vermiculite mix still produce the smell/flavors and other benefits which soil gives? I have been tinkering an idea around, may try it with a indoor tomato plant first so I don't waste any of the good stuff. I think it would be considered a cross between hempy and DWC. I am just hesitant because I don't want to lose that smell taste combo. Maybe a 3 part solution of soil/perlite/vermiculite in a Hempy with bottom inch of substrate raised for an air stone to make air bubbles.
> 
> Like I said, just an idea, but I love my MJ tastes and smells!!


this is my first time in soilless, I'll let ya know in about 3 months LOL


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## gumball (Aug 17, 2010)

Ok, now that's whatsup!! I still think I will try hydro of some sort at some point, just gotta do more research!


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## cowboylogic (Aug 17, 2010)

gumball said:


> Do you think that is why hempy buckets do well, because there is no nutrients in the soiless mix, so every water/feed cycle is like a make it rain? I know you haven't done hempy, just something I have been thinking about watching you and reefa go back and forth about making it rain.


The plant always has nutrients and water availible in a hempy grow. Least an inch or two of standing water remaining after each feeding. Thats how Hempy did it.


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## gumball (Aug 17, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> The plant always has nutrients and water availible in a hempy grow. Least an inch or two remaining after each feeding. Thats how Hempy did it.


very true! or the plant would prob die or come close due to major def's!


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## riddleme (Aug 18, 2010)

before you twist my arm I'll share that they are doing great, no signs of stress at all, I did move #1 and #2 (switched places) as #1 is a runt and #2 was blocking the fan from getting to it, so angle is different on the pics but tried to get the same hieght

pics are of #2 (go figure) pic 1 monday, pic 2 this morning (Wed)

should add that it is 2 inches taller as well since transplant

Enjoy


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## reefacheefa (Aug 18, 2010)

damn shes a beauty Riddle maaaan! is she indica dom??


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## riddleme (Aug 18, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> damn shes a beauty Riddle maaaan! is she indica dom??


Sensi Seeds Northern Lights #1 100% indica, won the cup 8 years in a row was then disqualified so others could win


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## bigman4270 (Aug 18, 2010)

As always,looking great. So are ya loving the new house, the new grow area and, the CMH yet?


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## riddleme (Aug 18, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> As always,looking great. So are ya loving the new house, the new grow area and, the CMH yet?


loving it to death, having a blast and planning the next exspansion


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## reefacheefa (Aug 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Sensi Seeds Northern Lights #1 100% indica, won the cup 8 years in a row was then disqualified so others could win


LOL damn, i know your gonna be happy come harvest! i did a lil tweaking wit , your avatar, lol. hope you dont mind too much


what do you think about Greenhouse Super Lemon Haze??


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## riddleme (Aug 18, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> LOL damn, i know your gonna be happy come harvest! i did a lil tweaking wit , your avatar, lol. hope you dont mind too much
> View attachment 1105094
> 
> what do you think about Greenhouse Super Lemon Haze??


Don't mind at all, thankyou! I'll change it here in a minute.

have seen some great grows with the SLH but never grown it or smoked it


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## reefacheefa (Aug 18, 2010)

lol i just downloaded this little photoscape toy yesterday, and man that thing is cool! was thinking about ordering some of the SLH and some Pineapple Express when i use up these Critical seeds. this bag baby ive got is taking forever though. whats the thc content on that NL1??


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## riddleme (Aug 18, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> lol i just downloaded this little photoscape toy yesterday, and man that thing is cool! was thinking about ordering some of the SLH and some Pineapple Express when i use up these Critical seeds. this bag baby ive got is taking forever though. whats the thc content on that NL1??


here is the info, does not give % content



> *Sex :* Regular
> *Type :* Indica
> *Flowering :* Photoperiod
> *Genetics :* Northern Lights #1
> ...


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## reefacheefa (Aug 18, 2010)

mmmmm that sounds wonderful! cant wait to see what you can do with her


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## gumball (Aug 18, 2010)

Everything I have ever heard about northern lights has been good, but I also understand it is mostly couch lock.


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## Illumination (Aug 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> before you twist my arm I'll share that they are doing great, no signs of stress at all, I did move #1 and #2 (switched places) as #1 is a runt and #2 was blocking the fan from getting to it, so angle is different on the pics but tried to get the same hieght
> 
> pics are of #2 (go figure) pic 1 monday, pic 2 this morning (Wed)
> 
> ...


Pretty girl there bro!!!(Positive thinking)

Thanks for the mid wk pics...

Namaste' my friend


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## riddleme (Aug 18, 2010)

gumball said:


> Everything I have ever heard about northern lights has been good, but I also understand it is mostly *couch lock*.


that's the way I like it, have compound PTSD, mostly medicate to sleep


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## riddleme (Aug 21, 2010)

Well this is the time I hate cause things slow down and I can't make it rain, waiting for the bitches to stick their toes into the new soil. much like when the peat pellets went into the 6 inch pots. I simply watered around the edge of the pot with a quart of water w/nutes (since sunshine has none) so instaed of 2 inches since last pic only got an inch and a half of new growth. Still they are doing good and should start taken off this next week 

I added some shots of the guest and for those of you lurking, I'll share they have been here for almost 3 weeks and I have yet to water them. because I have them 5 feet from the light they are in mom mode, going slow as I want the others to catch up, still they have grown 4 inches,,,,,,,,,, GOT CMH?

Light cycle is 16.45/7.15 for this week, Enjoy the pic's


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## reefacheefa (Aug 21, 2010)

they look great, Riddle maaan!!! i love those big, fat indica leaves. i been thinking about getting one of those cmh bulbs after these die off, but will it work on my ballast? http://www.htgsupply.com/growlights.asp?categoryID=1&subcategoryID=106&typeID=67. i know it says not to use digital ballasts, but im not even sure what i have lol. i got the mh/hps kit at the bottom


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## riddleme (Aug 21, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> they look great, Riddle maaan!!! i love those big, fat indica leaves. i been thinking about getting one of those cmh bulbs after these die off, but will it work on my ballast? http://www.htgsupply.com/growlights.asp?categoryID=1&subcategoryID=106&typeID=67. i know it says not to use digital ballasts, but im not even sure what i have lol. i got the mh/hps kit at the bottom


no ballast specs on that link, so can't tell ya. The best way to figure it out is to look for the ansi code on the ballast itself


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## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 21, 2010)

Looking strong there RM3, great job


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## reefacheefa (Aug 21, 2010)

hhhmmmmmm, these are the only numbers on it, i think i still have the box though. what am i looking for??


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## riddleme (Aug 21, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> hhhmmmmmm, these are the only numbers on it, i think i still have the box though. what am i looking for??
> View attachment 1111230


The S50 is your code,,,,,,mine is an S51


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## reefacheefa (Aug 21, 2010)

oooooo ok. so this is not digital? i didnt see anything about the S-- numbers when i was reading about the cmh bulbs, just that you cant use them with digital ballast and it should be a "regular" hps ballast


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## riddleme (Aug 21, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> oooooo ok. so this is not digital? i didnt see anything about the S-- numbers when i was reading about the cmh bulbs, just that you cant use them with digital ballast and it should be a "regular" hps ballast


your good follow this link (where I got mine) and you'll see the S50 in the model #
http://www.growlightexpress.com/ceramic-metal-halide-bulbs-9/mastercolor-ceramic-metal-halide-250-watt-87.html


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## reefacheefa (Aug 21, 2010)

lol, thats where i got the info from. i went back to the beginning of this one to read a bit and got the link. the spectrum chart made my mind up. those bulbs have everything! your using only a 250 too?? 

o nevermind. i see 400. how many you got going??


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## riddleme (Aug 21, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> lol, thats where i got the info from. i went back to the beginning of this one to read a bit and got the link. the spectrum chart made my mind up. those bulbs have everything! your using only a 250 too??


no mine is a 400


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## reefacheefa (Aug 21, 2010)

riddleme said:


> no mine is a 400


 saw that when i went back to check. i got a horrible memory. thanks for the help man, your a freakin horticultural genius! it still wont let me rep you. you and Casey are the only reasons i come over here anymore, so i guess i dont spread it around enough lol. how many plants do you max out under a 400?


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## riddleme (Aug 21, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> saw that when i went back to check. i got a horrible memory. thanks for the help man, your a freakin horticultural genius! it still wont let me rep you. you and Casey are the only reasons i come over here anymore, so i guess i dont spread it around enough lol. how many plants do you max out under a 400?


just 4 I like to have a 100 watts per plant


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## reefacheefa (Aug 21, 2010)

thats what i was thinking, just doing two in my little box with the 250. the one i have is taking up alot of room and filling in beautifully

what you think?


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## riddleme (Aug 21, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> thats what i was thinking, just doing two in my little box with the 250. the one i have is taking up alot of room and filling in beautifully
> View attachment 1111305View attachment 1111306
> what you think?


Lookin good, there


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## reefacheefa (Aug 21, 2010)

thanks, bud. well i gotta go pawn my damn pooter for gas money to get to class til the end of the month. thanks for all the help and all the great reads!! catch up wit you asap


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## infinitihigh (Aug 21, 2010)

Subd to this can't wait for that bud porn. Riddleme you are amazing!!!


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## riddleme (Aug 21, 2010)

infinitihigh said:


> Subd to this can't wait for that bud porn. Riddleme you are amazing!!!


well thank you, thank you very much (said w/my best Elvis voice) 

It'll be awhile, gonna veg em to 2 feet we're at 11 inches now


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## riddleme (Aug 22, 2010)

Minor update, made another storm today, they really like it, afterwards I measured them and #2 is now 12 inches tall # 4 is now 17 inches tall. The guest were 17 inches when I got them they are now 23 inches tall, damn CMH light now I'm gonna have to top #4 to even out the canopy and top the gifted guest that I keep, so gettin time to clone me some for phase 2 woohoo

good news is that #4 is a tilders plant and I flipped tilders at 13 inches and she finished at 21 so at least I have an idea of big they will get, since I want to veg for a few more weeks


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## Danielsgb (Aug 22, 2010)

What is a tilders plant? I haven't heard of that term.


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## bigman4270 (Aug 22, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> What is a tilders plant? I haven't heard of that term.


Same strain as Matilda. K.C. Brains Northen Lights Special.


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## kingofqueen (Aug 23, 2010)

riddleme said:


> depends on how you look at it, we're allowed 6 plants but it is supposed to be 2 in seed/clone, 2 in veg and 2 in flower, since I think I have 2 males I'm technically ok but then the guest came adding 2 more (both females) they were not supposed to stay but had to because of the mites, so yeah a bit of covering my ass going on



I'm chiming in kinda late here Riddleme but where did you come up with that have I never seen or read the 2 clone,2 veg ,2 in flower?
I thought it is stated as 6 plants , 3 mature and 3 immature . So what I see is alot of debate on whether or not to run 3 all the way through so you never have more than 3 mature or immature , or you got the ppl who think because the rule states 6 that your safe running 6 (with no patients yourself as caregiver btw) all the way through . WTF i dont know what to do I want to run 6 but it lingers in the back of my head you know dont want to be the guy who gets made an example out of by the state .

Then ofcourse you got the debate on it states you can have only 2 oz of product . SO we all know that 3 plants will generate more than 2 oz so you got the issue of if your gonna be over 2 oz all the time why not grow out more than 3 or even more than 6 .

KOG confused !


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> I'm chiming in kinda late here Riddleme but where did you come up with that have I never seen or read the 2 clone,2 veg ,2 in flower?
> I thought it is stated as 6 plants , 3 mature and 3 immature . So what I see is alot of debate on whether or not to run 3 all the way through so you never have more than 3 mature or immature , or you got the ppl who think because the rule states 6 that your safe running 6 (with no patients yourself as caregiver btw) all the way through . WTF i dont know what to do I want to run 6 but it lingers in the back of my head you know dont want to be the guy who gets made an example out of by the state .
> 
> Then ofcourse you got the debate on it states you can have only 2 oz of product . SO we all know that 3 plants will generate more than 2 oz so you got the issue of if your gonna be over 2 oz all the time why not grow out more than 3 or even more than 6 .
> ...


I think if you just have 6 your ok, it seems that the cops are merely counting total plants when they visit from everything I have heard, but it is also better safe than sorry situation that does not seem to have been tested in court? ,,,,,,,,,,,, yet


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## kingofqueen (Aug 23, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> They actually only limit you to half in flowering. If you wanted to keep all 6 vegging they wouldn't care. Also those I've talked with that have had a visit from leo, said they only counted the plants, didn't care about light cycles. Furthermore, it actually says no more than half of your count can be 'mature', which is highly debatable as well. It's certainly not mature 2 weeks into flowering. No one has ever gone to jail or been charged with too many plants in flowering, just being over their plant count.
> 
> And the plants look great BTW[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## thewinghunter (Aug 23, 2010)

hahah u gotta be over 45. thats an old ass song ! but good


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## gumball (Aug 23, 2010)

thewinghunter said:


> hahah u gotta be over 45. thats an old ass song ! but good


haha, you gotta be under 20!!


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## kingofqueen (Aug 23, 2010)

What does that mean under 45 under 20 ?


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## gumball (Aug 23, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> What does that mean under 45 under 20 ?


i think they may have been referring to your signature, you spoofed Bon Jovi's "Blaze of Glory". Or they were speaking of riddleme's songs he did and posted a few weeks back. that is all i can conclude without thewinghunter chiming in. both songs were great. and mozart can tell you, if he was alive, that music really has no age, it is infinite.

edit: i wasnt trying to disrespect either of you, just kidding around this morning. have a good day everyone!!


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> What does that mean under 45 under 20 ?


age because of the balls to the wall video on the first page which is from the early 80's

and I'm 53


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## jpknowmad (Aug 23, 2010)

Anyone heard of what's going on if your dr's rec and app has more than 6. My doc wrote 24 each for me and my lady. So can we have 48 or what?


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

jpknowmad said:


> Anyone heard of what's going on if your dr's rec and app has more than 6. My doc wrote 24 each for me and my lady. So can we have 48 or what?


yeppers if doc said 48 then you can have 48


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## kingofqueen (Aug 23, 2010)

riddleme said:


> age because of the balls to the wall video on the first page which is from the early 80's
> 
> and I'm 53



Oh okay gotcha ! lol hell i,m 35 I remember that group !


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## kingofqueen (Aug 23, 2010)

gumball said:


> i think they may have been referring to your signature, you spoofed Bon Jovi's "Blaze of Glory". Or they were speaking of riddleme's songs he did and posted a few weeks back. that is all i can conclude without thewinghunter chiming in. both songs were great. and mozart can tell you, if he was alive, that music really has no age, it is infinite.
> 
> edit: i wasnt trying to disrespect either of you, just kidding around this morning. have a good day everyone!!



None taken man ! Thats funny because when I came up with that quate I wasn't thinking of Bon Jovi .That term has been aroun longer than they have I was thinking of the Old West .


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## kingofqueen (Aug 23, 2010)

Was just doing a read Riddleme, found it through some links u posted on calcined clay which lead me to this read from a Manufactuer of calcined clay for various applications including horticulture . They claim it works well in an 1 to 1 ration in an peat medium.

This is where I read it >>>>>>> http://www.solitellc.com/index.html

They reccomend 3/8 size for horticulture which is about the size of Hydroton but whats the deal with hydroton having the outer orange layer and this stuff doesnt it looks like the inside of hydroton when u bust it open wander what the difference is mabey there is data on cation ,porisity etc on both products that can be compared I would assume you have seen the numbers on what your using .Ever come across the 1 to 1 ratio ?


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> Was just doing a read Riddleme, found it through some links u posted on calcined clay which lead me to this read from a Manufactuer of calcined clay for various applications including horticulture . They claim it works well in an 1 to 1 ration in an peat medium.
> 
> This is where I read it >>>>>>> http://www.solitellc.com/index.html
> 
> They reccomend 3/8 size for horticulture which is about the size of Hydroton but whats the deal with hydroton having the outer orange layer and this stuff doesnt it looks like the inside of hydroton when u bust it open wander what the difference is mabey there is data on cation ,porisity etc on both products that can be compared I would assume you have seen the numbers on what your using .Ever come across the 1 to 1 ratio ?


1 to 1 would be 50%, I'm doing 30% and no I did not read the package, I prolly should?


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## kingofqueen (Aug 23, 2010)

Well from reading on it I can see why you choose it . But from what i noticed at that site they basically process the raw form and break it down to differnt sizes . None of it has the outer layer .I,m still trying to look some more info up on this but I ,m thinking the outer layer is mabey to keep it from realesing small particles as for its designed to be used in hydroponics and small particles would clog pumps/drippers/sprayhead etc . So given that I wander what effect it gives using it in a soiless medium, does it perform as well without the outer layer ,should there not be an outer layer in a soiless mix . See where I,m going with this ?


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

I see what your saying, I was originally going to use Turface which is very cheap $8 for 50lbs but same thing, just various sized pieces, Once I found cheap hydrotron balls at American Clay I switched and went with it, at 30% in my 4, 5 gallon buckets only used half of the bag so I'm happy


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## kingofqueen (Aug 23, 2010)

Well cool can,t wait to see the results . I read that turface is kinda got some weight to it and is unfavorable in containers.


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

well it had to happen and it took awhile LOL pouring lots of water thru buckets is so much fun 

in the pics you can see my drainage system working 

and the leaves drooping, just like we like to see (means we did it right)


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

got the heat mat temp control thingy set up and filled tray with sand and added water

to the water (1 gallon) I added 8 drops of chlorine bleach and 1 drop of superthrive

let the tray heat up 

Gotta cut a few tops off the guest cause they just keep growing 

and gonna top #4 again to bring it back down with the others

soak them in the chlorine water for 30 minutes, add root hormone put em in the sand


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

turn the IR heater on set it for 85 and wait, come back an hour later and no more droopy leaves, bitches are gettin jiggy with it, so much fun to watch em do this, they love the rain


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## kingofqueen (Aug 23, 2010)

Very cool was that your first rain since you upcanned ? And would the leaves still be drooping without the ir heat ? I,m taking it this makes them transpire water faster?


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> Very cool was that your first rain since you upcanned ? And would the leaves still be drooping without the ir heat ? I,m taking it this makes them transpire water faster?


yes it was, yes they would, and yes it does

they love the IR heat but I also turned it up to knock the humidity down as it went up 5 points after watering (makin it rain) with the heater on humidity went down 7 points 

For the lurkers, the correct combination of temp & humidity dialed right gives stress free fast transporation, totally explained in the Noob Advice thread (during the class)


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

and for anybody that is attempting to add IR heat an hour after I turned it up to 85 I turned it back down to 82, once the humidity went down it did not need to be that high, I can not stress enough how important it is to mate the temp & humidity to each other!

that combined with proper lighting gives you great and vigorous growth (as you can see)

And it is ok if you lurkers ask questions?????

check in, join the conversation, have some fun


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## Zink Man (Aug 23, 2010)

Hey Riddle i've spent the last week reading your threads and still feel like a kid in a candy shop i cant stop sucking up information im subbed and cant wait to see how it all turns out.


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## rastadred22 (Aug 23, 2010)

love how they look after that rain!


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

Zink Man said:


> Hey Riddle i've spent the last week reading your threads and still feel like a kid in a candy shop i cant stop sucking up information im subbed and cant wait to see how it all turns out.


Cool and thanks for joining in, it'll be great, it always is 

PS not being arogant, I'm refferin to the fun we have in my threads


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> love how they look after that rain!


yeah it's like they're poutin  and then shortly after they're humpin


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 23, 2010)

i need one of those lights


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

Ok a lot of you read my threads and some even follow my post and if you do you hear (read) me sayin all the time don't cut fan leaves, plants adapt to their enviroment and for the best yields it is best to let the plant do what it wants

Ok, so I top em, but that is about all I do and after I top em I let em do what they want.

Some of you might remember the pic from the Tilders grow where the leaf curled around the T9 (circle bulb) to get at the light?

Well here are some pics of plant #3 showing that the back set of leaves (furthest away from the light) are standin up and basking in the light, the alternate set (right under the light) are relaxed and just hangin out and at the bottom of pic 256 you'll see a big fan leaf in the shade of the upper leaves that has tilted to get more light. Why I say you do not need to remove or tuck leaves out of the way, left alone they will do what they need to do to complete their purpose in life.

another very important reason to not remove leaves is transporation, with how I make it rain, I need the plant to have a) a healthy root structure and b) healthy foilage so that it can wick the water out of the medium in a timely manner, removing leaves slows the wicking process way down and causes much slower growth.

and for those of you wondering? they have grown 1/2 inch since it rained this morning


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## DaveCoulier (Aug 23, 2010)

Riddleme, are you counting nodal growth per plant each day? It looks more like your ladies are stretching than growing new nodes to me, especially considering they are under CMH. It looks like your infrared treatments could be generating this.


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Riddleme, are you counting nodal growth per plant each day? It looks more like your ladies are stretching than growing new nodes to me, especially considering they are under CMH. It looks like your infrared treatments could be generating this.


they have grown 5 nodes since I topped em, are now working on secondary branches, the NLS is showing a sativa pheno and is stretching more internodal spacing is 3 to 4 inches, 2 of the NL's are growing exactly the same internodal spacing is 1.5 to 2 inches and #1 is either a male or a runt as internodal spacing 1.2 to 1 inch it is much shorter overall than the others all getting the same heat and light so not sure I agree that the IR is causing anything, these are not pure indicas so I believe we're looking at different phenos or different sexes


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## DaveCoulier (Aug 23, 2010)

riddleme said:


> they have grown 5 nodes since I topped em, are now working on secondary branches, the NLS is showing a sativa pheno and is stretching more internodal spacing is 3 to 4 inches, 2 of the NL's are growing exactly the same internodal spacing is 1.5 to 2 inches and #1 is either a male or a runt as internodal spacing 1.2 to 1 inch it is much shorter overall than the others all getting the same heat and light so not sure I agree that the IR is causing anything, these are not pure indicas so I believe we're looking at different phenos or different sexes


You are growing Sensi NL #1 right? I believe I read that earlier in the journal.


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> You are growing Sensi NL #1 right? I believe I read that earlier in the journal.


yes and kc brains northern light special

plant #'s 1, 2, and 3 are Sensi, #4 is the NLS

#1 is the runt


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## DaveCoulier (Aug 23, 2010)

riddleme said:


> yes and kc brains northern light special
> 
> plant #'s 1, 2, and 3 are Sensi, #4 is the NLS
> 
> #1 is the runt


Im just going off the strain description on NL#1 at Attitude, and it says it is a pure Indica, so I would expect tighter nodes, but..then I read this on ICMAG about Sensi NL

whodair 
Senior Member

 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,445 































grew sensi and seedsman version and you are well advised to avoid these, if its short and stocky you are seeking. these NL had lots of thai, huge lanky stretchers, loose bud structure, and a longer sativa flowering period. 

sensi Hindu kush may get you what you're looking for. i grew it in a cross made by rez, and it was very grapey, very indica. 
_ Last edited by whodair; 03-29-2010 at 05:07 PM.. _ 




  Quote Quick Reply


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## riddleme (Aug 23, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Im just going off the strain description on NL#1 at Attitude, and it says it is a pure Indica, so I would expect tighter nodes, but..then I read this on ICMAG about Sensi NL
> 
> whodair
> Senior Member
> ...


 
Good to know, since I'm gonna be breedin em, but this is just the first cross of many


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 24, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Good to know, since I'm gonna be breedin em, but this is just the first cross of many


how about Purple x OG Kush...sound tasty?


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## riddleme (Aug 24, 2010)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> how about Purple x OG Kush...sound tasty?


Have never tasted either, wanna send me some?


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## riddleme (Aug 24, 2010)

what a difference the rain makes, made it rain and topped #4 yesterday so here are some comparrison pics of plant #4 after the topping yesterday and again today


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## riddleme (Aug 24, 2010)

yesterday we had a lesson from #3 and I took a top down pic, today I had to put it on the floor to get it all, when I made it rain it was 12 inches (pic1) now just one day later it is 15 inches tall, seems the wait was worth it, I'm thinking the roots found the sunshine mix


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## HUSTLERBOY20 (Aug 24, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Have never tasted either, wanna send me some?



yea..i can

i crossed my friends male OG to my Purple Fem


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## riddleme (Aug 24, 2010)

over 60 views and no post, now don't get me wrong I don't need to have folks say "looking good" and I understand a lot of you are just here to learn and that is a good thing, the more MJ growing in the world the better the world 

But I have to seriously say that what you are seeing is all about the whole garden, everything dialed in and controlled, done at the right time, waiting for things to happen and learning how to hear the plants tell you what they want/need

I have tried to post as many pics as I can to show you these things so you will have an idea when you see em in your garden

thanks for lurking


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## Delux83 (Aug 25, 2010)

HUSTLERBOY20 said:


> yea..i can
> 
> i crossed my friends male OG to my Purple Fem


where he get the male? thought they were only available in fem seed form if reg is avail id like to buy some pls share


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## gumball (Aug 25, 2010)

riddleme said:


> thanks for lurking


your welcome! 

great growth for 9 days since being transplanted.


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## rastadred22 (Aug 25, 2010)

yea man u kno im here...every lesson is well apppreciated!! keep doin wat ur doin dnt lose the motivation as a teacher u have helped me out on this thread and through pm and since your advoce my budz are healthy everything is bac to green and putting on that weight! shes filled with trichs and is connect up the stalk!! still have alot to learn and am doing so through this thread! keep it up and thanks for thaqt advice...she took her first feeeding since the flush yesterday and she reacted beautifully and has never lookd better!!


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## JN811 (Aug 25, 2010)

riddleme said:


> over 60 views and no post, now don't get me wrong I don't need to have folks say "looking good" and I understand a lot of you are just here to learn and that is a good thing, the more MJ growing in the world the better the world
> 
> But I have to seriously say that what you are seeing is all about the whole garden, everything dialed in and controlled, done at the right time, waiting for things to happen and learning how to hear the plants tell you what they want/need
> 
> ...


Sorry riddleme, Ive been really busy and been lurking around ur journal, not having time to read the whole thing.. Everything Ive seen looks amazing though.. I know its frustrating when you spend tons of time taking pics and no one says anything.. but it looks to me like you are doing it all like a pro, keep up the good work!! Ill continue lurking till i have less going on.. starting school, moving, working tons, ect. ect.


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## kingofqueen (Aug 25, 2010)

That was some great growth for one day ! I like the side by side b4 and after shots !


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## kingofqueen (Aug 25, 2010)

Hey Riddle I got a dumb question . What do you do with all the run off water when u make it rain ?


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## quietguy420 (Aug 25, 2010)

Hey fellow co caregiver, always love your threads, keep up the good stuff brother.


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## riddleme (Aug 25, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> Hey Riddle I got a dumb question . What do you do with all the run off water when u make it rain ?


pour it down the drain, or sometimes outside in the yard, depends on how the yard is looking


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## shnkrmn (Aug 25, 2010)

Well, I woulda wrecked your thread with stupid posts waaaay before now if I had noticed it. Always interested in what you are up to . . . .



riddleme said:


> over 60 views and no post, now don't get me wrong I don't need to have folks say "looking good" and I understand a lot of you are just here to learn and that is a good thing, the more MJ growing in the world the better the world
> 
> But I have to seriously say that what you are seeing is all about the whole garden, everything dialed in and controlled, done at the right time, waiting for things to happen and learning how to hear the plants tell you what they want/need
> 
> ...


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## riddleme (Aug 25, 2010)

Hey thanks everyone for chiming in, join the conversation, say stupid stuff it's all good, we're just here to have a good time


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## Zink Man (Aug 25, 2010)

hey man the plants look great thanks for being such a great teacher. I like the comparison pictures its awesome to watch em grow keep up the good work


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## WWShadow (Aug 25, 2010)

Ha ha, I mostly lurk because when I think of a question I can usually find the answer by going back through your journal, I tend to forget stuff easily now for some stupid reason.


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## gumball (Aug 25, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> Ha ha, I mostly lurk because when I think of a question I can usually find the answer by going back through your journal, I tend to forget stuff easily now for some stupid reason.


hey, hey! its not a stupid reason you forget stuff, its pot!


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## xshooterx (Aug 25, 2010)

Hey Riddle and fellow followers,

Riddle, you da MAN! Thank you for your gifts and setting a great example. Ignorance sucks!

Personally, I have a ton of info with little experience, so I'm thinkin I'm dangerous 8]

I do have a question about light spectrums. CMH and T5 54w 6400k. I can't seem to find a graph for the T5's. I know you posted one for CMH a while back. I have the HydroFarm 4ft fixture, 8 lamps, 450w. Using AgroBrite lamps which are supposed to be tweaked for a more plant friendly spectrum. Any idea how the compare?


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## DaveCoulier (Aug 25, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Hey Riddle and fellow followers,
> 
> Riddle, you da MAN! Thank you for your gifts and setting a great example. Ignorance sucks!
> 
> ...


I know nothing about AgroBrite lamps, and I can't even find a manufacturers website when I google the name..

When it comes to bulbs, I think its always best to buy a bulb from a well known manufacturer, that has lots of experience in the lighting industry(GE, Ushio, Osram, Philips,etc). I imagine there are plenty of no name bulb 'manufacturers' that claim their T5s and other bulbs are the best in the biz, and have been tweaked for plants, but in reality, I think they probably are just rebranding some generic bulb, and jacking the price up on you.

If you want to learn about T5's visit aquatic forums that specialize in corals & underwater plants. They use T5's alot, and know much more about the quality of the brands than you can find around here.

The top two T5's Ive seen recommended on these forums are GE Starcoats & Giesemann, but Giesemann are expensive. I got my GE Starcoats at $7.5 each & free shipping. I had a link where someone used a PAR meter to test them, and the Giesemann, and Starcoats were 1 & 2 out of probably 10-15 bulbs tested. Unfortunately, the site has gone down, so I can't even give you the link to check it out.


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## xshooterx (Aug 25, 2010)

Thanks Dave. Well, these came with the fixture and have a HydroFarm logo, made in China (what isn't these days). Actually, these fixtures seem to be pretty popular with growers. I did check an aquarium website a while back, looking for a spectrum graph, but couldn't find anything. Doesn't seem to be an AgroBrite website.


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## riddleme (Aug 25, 2010)

Thank you Dave for helpin out as I have not done much in the way of researchin T5's

I do know that the big name manufacturers will send you a spec sheet Par graph upon request


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## xshooterx (Aug 25, 2010)

Thanks Riddle. Sent an email to HydroFarm. Guess I should have thought of that.


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## cindergrow (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanks for all your threads...tons of great info. I was wondering how long you take to complete a rain on one plant? Do you actually ph down to mimic rain water?


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## riddleme (Aug 26, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> Thanks for all your threads...tons of great info. I was wondering how long you take to complete a rain on one plant? Do you actually ph down to mimic rain water?


Just made it rain for the first time in the 5 gallon buckets this last monday, it took about 2 hours and yes I ph all of the water down as that is what makes it work


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## RastaMonsta (Aug 26, 2010)

its been raining alot where i live. i have a big cooler outside catching all that rain water. i tested the ph of it yesterday and i got a 6.0. riddle,i was trying to drp the p.h .5 more to get it 5.5 cuz im starting rockwool.i literally only added a drop to the wholeeee cooler, and the ph droped down to 4.0 or lower.its turns red fast after i add my ph test drop's.how do i lower the p.h? i love making it rain. I preety much only use rain water even when germinating my seeds.


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## riddleme (Aug 26, 2010)

RastaMonsta said:


> its been raining alot where i live. i have a big cooler outside catching all that rain water. i tested the ph of it yesterday and i got a 6.0. riddle,i was trying to drp the p.h .5 more to get it 5.5 cuz im starting rockwool.i literally only added a drop to the wholeeee cooler, and the ph droped down to 4.0 or lower.its turns red fast after i add my ph test drop's.how do i lower the p.h? i love making it rain. I preety much only use rain water even when germinating my seeds.


The PH of collected rain water will change as it sits, be sure and test it everytime before using. I use Apple Cider Vinegar to lower PH


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## Zink Man (Aug 26, 2010)

so when you make it rain and then you feed them do you add nutes 1/4 to all the water till it runs out?


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## Spoc (Aug 26, 2010)

Riddle, which do you prefer, soil or soilless medium? What are some of the pros and cons of each? Just bit the bullet and ordered a 400watt CMH system and will be following in your footsteps. If anybody is looking for a good online hydro shop, check out thehydrosource.com. It's an eBay store with an extensive catalogue and pricing/shipping is rock bottom. Enjoying the show man, learned alot in your threads.


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## riddleme (Aug 26, 2010)

Zink Man said:


> so when you make it rain and then you feed them do you add nutes 1/4 to all the water till it runs out?


Just fed em last night after making it rain on monday, they are up to full strength nutes and when I feed I just go a slight run off

I start with 1/4 strength nutes and work my way up, reading the plants needs as I go


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## riddleme (Aug 26, 2010)

Spoc said:


> Riddle, which do you prefer, soil or soilless medium? What are some of the pros and cons of each? Just bit the bullet and ordered a 400watt CMH system and will be following in your footsteps. If anybody is looking for a good online hydro shop, check out thehydrosource.com. It's an eBay store with an extensive catalogue and pricing/shipping is rock bottom. Enjoying the show man, learned alot in your threads.


I am loving the SunShine Mix, total contol with no worries so far, soil can cause issues over time, I will not be going back. Though I still like soil for nurturing seedlings.


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## Zink Man (Aug 26, 2010)

Ok thanks for the help


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## bigman4270 (Aug 26, 2010)

Hey brother, thing's looking well as always, Been busy myself and haven't been around in a couple days. You know I'm here when I can be. 

Peace


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## maniacal420 (Aug 26, 2010)

Just stopped in to say nice job as always. Looking forward to some updated pics.


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## BusterBawls (Aug 27, 2010)

My orange crush mother came from Colorado.


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## kolz2788 (Aug 27, 2010)

hey riddle could you explain your lighting schedule? I remember reading about it on a thread but I cant find it... something about add or subtracting 15 minutes of light a day? Thanks ahead of time


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## riddleme (Aug 27, 2010)

kolz2788 said:


> hey riddle could you explain your lighting schedule? I remember reading about it on a thread but I cant find it... something about add or subtracting 15 minutes of light a day? Thanks ahead of time


start at 16/8 slowly work up to 18/6 stay there a week then slowly work back down to 12/12, it is this thread I talk about it in
they will be back on 16/8 tomorrow and have 2 more weeks of veg to get down to 12/12


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## Shayden (Aug 27, 2010)

Do you have any ideas on maximizing yield potential with 90 plants in DWC in one room? Perpetual.


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## kolz2788 (Aug 27, 2010)

riddleme said:


> start at 16/8 slowly work up to 18/6 stay there a week then slowly work back down to 12/12, it is this thread I talk about it in
> they will be back on 16/8 tomorrow and have 2 more weeks of veg to get down to 12/12


so is 16/8 the lowest you go before 12/12? or in these two week will you be going to 15.45/8.15, 15.30/8.30, etc...?


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## riddleme (Aug 27, 2010)

kolz2788 said:


> so is 16/8 the lowest you go before 12/12? or in these two week will you be going to 15.45/8.15, 15.30/8.30, etc...?


counting down to 12/12 in increments, Yes


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## riddleme (Aug 27, 2010)

Shayden said:


> Do you have any ideas on maximizing yield potential with 90 plants in DWC in one room? Perpetual.


everything I do is about growing healthy plants and maximizing yields, but I do not do hydro, some hydro guys have learned things however by reading my threads


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## riddleme (Aug 27, 2010)

Well RMH, I guess you lose your bet, as I was right #2 & #3 are girls, both showing preflowers, still pretty sure #1 is the boy though he is not showing yet

pic's so you can see

You'll love the update tomorrow they grew another 3 inches up to 18 now


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## Danielsgb (Aug 27, 2010)

Yours look to love the transplanting. In honor of you.
Here's Mini Matilda before I harvested her. I named the gnome Rumple Resinskin. Couple CFL's and cheap nutes.

Here's two 19 days into flowering. I love these CMH. This 150W is doing great. These 2 go to 300W HPS to finish. The node spacing is noticeably closer here and under my 400W Veg area. Thanks again for showing me these. My 70W in a PC is gonna do great too.
Daniels
View attachment 1123523


----------



## riddleme (Aug 27, 2010)

mini matilda is just so cute


----------



## kolz2788 (Aug 27, 2010)

riddleme said:


> counting down to 12/12 in increments, Yes


do you shut your lights off for 2 days before flowering?


----------



## riddleme (Aug 27, 2010)

kolz2788 said:


> do you shut your lights off for 2 days before flowering?


No, that 36 hour dark thing is a waste of time/myth, there is no benefit from doing so. Does not happen in nature should not happen indoors. I imulate mother nature by decreasing the light times slowly rather than all at once


----------



## ElectricPineapple (Aug 27, 2010)

haha i had one plant, that was probably 7-8th week in veg, and i swore i saw female preflowers. threw it into flowering, and balls everywhere. total male ha. i know they werent petioles, and looked just like pistols. thats be awesome though if all turn female


----------



## rastadred22 (Aug 27, 2010)

ElectricPineapple said:


> haha i had one plant, that was probably 7-8th week in veg, and i swore i saw female preflowers. threw it into flowering, and balls everywhere. total male ha. i know they werent petioles, and looked just like pistols. thats be awesome though if all turn female


....they are......


----------



## riddleme (Aug 28, 2010)

Before I do the regular end of week update I wanted to share this growth shot, taking a look back at #4 after I re-topped her and then today, 4 days later


----------



## riddleme (Aug 28, 2010)

This is what I like to call the prep week, we had our first rain since transplant, plants are digging their toes into the new pots, it takes longer to wick the water out of the pot until roots are established, so we wait patiently for the next rain to come, understanding that we are building roots and getting ready to flower, there are 16 days of veg left, tonight they will be on 16/8 then each day will subtract 15 min till we are at 12/12 (hence 16 days left) though this makes an extended veg period it sets us up for the end and is needed to get the yields we are after, growth has been just short of spectacular and they are now working on building secondary branches, all of which will be new bud sites in just a few more weeks, everything I have done up to now is about building the bud foundation

Enjoy the pic's


----------



## Danielsgb (Aug 28, 2010)

I wake up sat. mornings looking forward to seeing yours with my first cup of coffee. Nice
Daniels


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## rastadred22 (Aug 28, 2010)

its crazy tjhe rate they growin at cant wait fa d bud porn


----------



## riddleme (Aug 28, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> its crazy tjhe rate they growin at cant wait fa d bud porn


All about the rain, done properly they grow like crazy 

And the CMH bulb doesn't hurt


----------



## rastadred22 (Aug 28, 2010)

yea wish i had the space to make it rain its crazy how much they love it...i mean its pretty much common sense seeing as naturally they get watered that way...tell u one thing though hell of a discovery on ur part!


----------



## riddleme (Aug 28, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I wake up sat. mornings looking forward to seeing yours with my first cup of coffee. Nice
> Daniels


yeppers every morning I have coffee before going to the garden, great way to wake up in the morning, always amazed by the view, if I could I would just sit down there all the time


----------



## Danielsgb (Aug 28, 2010)

riddleme said:


> yeppers every morning I have coffee before going to the garden, great way to wake up in the morning, always amazed by the view, if I could I would just sit down there all the time


Bring a bottle of sunscreen. The good shit too.


----------



## gumball (Aug 28, 2010)

looking good riddleme.


----------



## Zink Man (Aug 28, 2010)

cant wait till they start to bud up.


----------



## riddleme (Aug 28, 2010)

Zink Man said:


> cant wait till they start to bud up.


Just think how I feel


----------



## riddleme (Aug 28, 2010)

Well it seems that I am not the only one that is experimenting with IR to make bigger, better buds Ed Rosenthal just came out with an updated version of his growers handbook (subcool was involved) and I have been reading excerpts from it all morning, good stuff!!!

a lot of what I am doing is discussed, ie; my way of manipulating the light cycle and I gatta say that I am going to buy this book based on everything I have read so far, here is the quote about using IR (there is more, link at the end)



> *Flowering In Less Darkness*
> In _Experiments at the Cutting Edge, Part I_, I discussed critical dark periods that induce flowering. When the plant repeatedly receives an uninterrupted dark period of that length, flowering is induced. The plant measures darkness as the absence of red light. To stop a plant from flowering, interrupt the dark period with red light such as the light from an incandescent bulb half way the dark period and the plant will continue to grow vegetatively.
> When the red light ends it takes the inactive form (which doesnt promote flowering) about two hours to change over to the active form. This can be speeded up considerably by far red light. You cannot see far red light but you can feel it as heat. Incandescent bulbs emit about 10% of their energy as visible light. The other 90% is emitted as far red light. When the light hits a solid object, the energy is converted to heat.
> You can make your own far red energy lamp by covering an incandescent bulb with opaque black paper. The visible light is blocked but the far red rays go through the filter. Far red bulbs are available at pet shops where they are sold as black heat lamps.
> ...


found the link while reading the cannabis culture articles here,,,,,
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/grow

Ed's site for the new book is here,,,,,,,
http://mjgrowers.com/book.htm

Nice to see that I am coming up with stuff that others are doing, think I am going to contact Ed and let him know


----------



## rastadred22 (Aug 28, 2010)

good read! u should contact him


----------



## riddleme (Aug 28, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> good read! u should contact him


I just did


----------



## rastadred22 (Aug 28, 2010)

nice keep us posted wanna hear what he says bac


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## Danielsgb (Aug 28, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> good read! u should contact him





riddleme said:


> I just did


I think you must be channeling him somehow. Sounds like *you* could have written _that_. It's giving me more ideas for my next DIY. He's gonna love hearing what you're up to.
Daniels


----------



## bigman4270 (Aug 28, 2010)

Well ya know what they say " great mind's think alike". lol 

Everything looking awesome as always. Do let us know what he thinks of what you are doing with the IR.

Peace

Big


----------



## riddleme (Aug 28, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> Well ya know what they say " great mind's think alike". lol
> 
> Everything looking awesome as always. Do let us know what he thinks of what you are doing with the IR.
> 
> ...


if he answers? I most certainly will


----------



## donni101 (Aug 28, 2010)

good read. what kind of light are you using for infrared? You gonn' do it big this grow you got it looking like veggie delight. Can wait to see them flower.


----------



## riddleme (Aug 28, 2010)

donni101 said:


> good read. what kind of light are you using for infrared? You gonn' do it big this grow you got it looking like veggie delight. Can wait to see them flower.


Not using a light, I'm using an IR heater (puts off IR light) and gonna let em be all they can be


----------



## Rocky Mountain High (Aug 29, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Well RMH, I guess you lose your bet, as I was right #2 & #3 are girls, both showing preflowers, still pretty sure #1 is the boy though he is not showing yet
> 
> pic's so you can see
> 
> You'll love the update tomorrow they grew another 3 inches up to 18 now


Dang it, you sure those tags didn't get switched, lol. 

Lookin good man


----------



## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

Ok got a question for ya?

who can tell me what a sink and source are?

lurkers are allowed to play too


----------



## gumball (Aug 29, 2010)

the method of how the plants are taking water, sink from the top, source from the bottom. thats just a wild guess


----------



## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

no, but good guess

this is about learning to read your plants, there will be a pic, but instead of just postin it I thought we would have some fun first, kinda like the NooB Advice game/class


----------



## Danielsgb (Aug 29, 2010)

source is where the water or nutrient solution is coming from, and the sink is where the source stops through the medium and drainage happens. How's that?


----------



## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

No, but your thinkin, bit of a hint, has to do with energy


----------



## Danielsgb (Aug 29, 2010)

riddleme said:


> No, but your thinkin, bit of a hint, has to do with energy


Source is water/nutrient *or* soil release of nutrients, by water AND Sink is absorbtion of nute's by roots, *and* the drainage through the medium. So I was half right and I'm adding to it. On yet?


----------



## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Source is water/nutrient *or* soil release of nutrients, by water AND Sink is absorbtion of nute's by roots, *and* the drainage through the medium. So I was half right and I'm adding to it. On yet?


No still off/wrong it is about what the plant is doing, not the nutes or water, member I said this is about learning to read your plants, which means there is a sign you can see


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## rastadred22 (Aug 29, 2010)

is it where there isnt an available source for thew plant to obtain what it needs so it uses it self and drains the 'sink' to take what it needs from itself?


----------



## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> is it where there isnt an available source for thew plant to obtain what it needs so it uses it self and drains the 'sink' to take what it needs from itself?


you are very close, you get one ding  

sink is where the plant stores nutes for later, now how do you know it is a sink by looking at it?


----------



## Danielsgb (Aug 29, 2010)

riddleme said:


> No still off/wrong it is about what the plant is doing, not the nutes or water, member I said this is about learning to read your plants, which means there is a sign you can see


I read my plants to decide when to water not a set time/days. So I see their Turgor pressure (sp?) drop, then I see when they are ready for a growth spurt by reading them after a watering. On a cellular level is this involved?


----------



## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I read my plants to decide when to water not a set time/days. So I see their Turgor pressure (sp?) drop, then I see when they are ready for a growth spurt by reading them after a watering. On a cellular level is this involved?


has nothing to do with watering, is more a sign of maturing, plant getting ready to flower


----------



## Danielsgb (Aug 29, 2010)

riddleme said:


> has nothing to do with watering, is more a sign of maturing, plant getting ready to flower


Is it The side of the plants getting the far red light (it is _not_ overhead, I'm pretty sure) *are* beginning to flower while the 'shadowed' from the far red are *not*. Converting the chemical and flowering. The post earlier involved? If I'm not much closer, I'll wait to see.
Daniels


----------



## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Is it The side of the plants getting the far red light (it is _not_ overhead, I'm pretty sure) *are* beginning to flower while the 'shadowed' from the far red are *not*. Converting the chemical and flowering. The post earlier involved? If I'm not much closer, I'll wait to see.
> Daniels


Has nothing to do with the IR, half of it was posted above, I think you missed it


----------



## Delux83 (Aug 29, 2010)

the plant is in sink when the leafs drop after it has used up all its stored nutes aka the source?


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## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> the plant is in sink when the leafs drop after it has used up all its stored nutes aka the source?


Nope, we have already said the sink is where the plant stores nutes

hence deductive reasoning would say the source makes the nutes for the plant to store

now all that it is left is what tells us which is which when we look at em? 

hint it is a common noob question


----------



## Delux83 (Aug 29, 2010)

think the Q is when do i began to give my plant nutes


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## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> think the Q is when do i began to give my plant nutes


Huh? now I'm confused


----------



## rastadred22 (Aug 29, 2010)

you know it is the sink when the the plant uses the sink as a source and pulls from the fan leaves...the new source...and they begin to yellow


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## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

How many times have you seen the question,,,,,,, leaf stems are turning purple, WTF?

I answered one just today

purple stems means the leaf is a sink, green stems means the leaf is a source

purple stems tells us that the plant is mature (as does alternating nodes) and is preparing to flower, like a squirel storing nuts for winter, the plant starts storing nutes to make sure it has them to flower with.

Yet one more reason not to prune leaves 

and don't confuse this with stems turning red which is the first sign of an N deficiency


----------



## reefacheefa (Aug 29, 2010)

damn i missed alot. love the last update man. hows everything been going for ya?


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## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> damn i missed alot. love the last update man. hows everything been going for ya?


Going great, I just gave em another storm


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## reefacheefa (Aug 29, 2010)

sweet. we got a good rain over here today, and it just so happened to be watering day! let her sit out for a while and get flushed. i cut off nutes last week. shes getting sooo close!!!!


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## riddleme (Aug 29, 2010)

The lights just came back on and this is what they look like after a storm,,,,,,

They love it 

PS those leaves are bigger than my hand (and I have big hands)


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## rastadred22 (Aug 29, 2010)

looks great nice and healthy


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## reefacheefa (Aug 30, 2010)

gorgeous, shes bouncing back from nap time beautifully!!! whats wrong with the leaf tips though?? looks kinda wrinkly and one looks like its been ripped off


----------



## riddleme (Aug 30, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> gorgeous, shes bouncing back from nap time beautifully!!! whats wrong with the leaf tips though?? looks kinda wrinkly and one looks like its been ripped off


not sure it is just the way it is growing, my thought is has something to do with the fast cell division that they warned me about when using CMH which is why they say add silica, I have been adding half strength and I'm thinking it is time to up it?


----------



## Delux83 (Aug 31, 2010)

OHHHHH!! I always thought purple stems were heat stress lol, always hot in my room made sense good to know. So other than final overall size and weight of the plant any beniefits of vegging longer once stems show purple?


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> OHHHHH!! I always thought purple stems were heat stress lol, always hot in my room made sense good to know. So other than final overall size and weight of the plant any beniefits of vegging longer once stems show purple?


I would say no, but am noticing on the guest plant (which is kinda just hangin out waitin) that are a lot more of em, even up around the top


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## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

I guess this is the mid week update 

It has been 8 days since they got 1st rain after transplant, this morning they got second rain. I am thinkin I need to increase the countdown on light cycle to 30 instead of 15 cause there is only 17 inches left before they hit the light 

I drew a red circle in one of the pics to show where I topped #4 8 days ago, 11.5 inches of new growth since 

Took a top down pic of #2, you can only see one cola LOL camera was even with the light.

Thinking of names now that I know sex, #4 is gonna be Tilders Deuce cause she looks so much like Tilders I have already been calling her that

#1 is Udo, after the singer in the Balls to the Wall video

#2 is Kat, cause I have a special friend named Kat and #2 is special

#3 is DD cause she has 2 big double D colas

Upper stems are bigger than a #2 pencil (will try to get a pic soon)

Also did the heat thing again as humidity went up again, turned up to 85 to burn it off then back down to 78, over 25 trips up & down the stairs to make it rain, who knew working in the garden was gonna be good exercise


----------



## gumball (Aug 31, 2010)

You need to get an adapter so you can hook the water hose up to a sink upstairs and run it to the basement. You probably don't use the hose for watering though.


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## rastadred22 (Aug 31, 2010)

lookin good cant beleive that plant almost doubled it size in 8 days i gotta get wit dat cmh and make it rain


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## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

gumball said:


> You need to get an adapter so you can hook the water hose up to a sink upstairs and run it to the basement. You probably don't use the hose for watering though.


I could actually do that as the slop sink in the laundry room will take a hose, but the exercise is good for me


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> lookin good cant beleive that plant almost doubled it size in 8 days i gotta get wit dat cmh and make it rain


I've been telling everyone for a year now, some have listened  some have doubts???


----------



## Danielsgb (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I've been telling everyone for a year now, some have listened  some have doubts???


I notice some mutated leaves from the CMH. The cell division is better too. I can't deal with the drainage to 'make it rain', but love these CMH's. Checked my tap water today, and it's 7.4, and the local greenhouse is calling back on the K-Trate. Got those Dr. Doom Foggers, and Knockout now, just in cause. Thanks for all the help.
Daniels


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I notice some mutated leaves from the CMH. The cell division is better too. I can't deal with the drainage to 'make it rain', but love these CMH's. Checked my tap water today, and it's 7.4, and the local greenhouse is calling back on the K-Trate. Got those Dr. Doom Foggers, and Knockout now, just in cause. Thanks for all the help.
> Daniels


Yeah I upped the silica to see if it helps with the mutations, I got one with a growth on it not sure WTF it is but got my eye on it


----------



## bobhamm (Aug 31, 2010)

forgive me if I'm mistaken or missed it, but at one time you were talking about a 3-1-2 fertilizer for bloom? 24-8-16 would be the same right? its the NPK ratio thats important? I ran across a little box on clearance for like 1.50 and picked it up just to try it out sometime.


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> forgive me if I'm mistaken or missed it, but at one time you were talking about a 3-1-2 fertilizer for bloom? 24-8-16 would be the same right? its the NPK ratio thats important? I ran across a little box on clearance for like 1.50 and picked it up just to try it out sometime.


3-1-2 would be a veg nute, 2-1-3 would be bloom, great price though


----------



## bobhamm (Aug 31, 2010)

got one in veg I'll try it out on, yeah I figure 1.50 for a 1,5lb box was hard to pass up, thanks! so if I mixed a gallon of the 3-1-2 with a gallon of 1-1-4 ratio that would be the same as 2-1-3 right?


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> got one in veg I'll try it out on, yeah I figure 1.50 for a 1,5lb box was hard to pass up, thanks! so if I mixed a gallon of the 3-1-2 with a gallon of 1-1-4 ratio that would be the same as 2-1-3 right?


mix equal amounts and divide by 2 for the actual NPK ie: mix 20-20-20 with 10-30-20 add = 30-50-40 divide by 2 = 15-25-20


----------



## reefacheefa (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> mix equal amounts and divide by 2 for the actual NPK ie: mix 20-20-20 with 10-30-20 add = 30-50-40 divide by 2 = 15-25-20


 wow. uummmmm wtf?? lol. weird shit


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> wow. uummmmm wtf?? lol. weird shit


what you didn't know that?


----------



## jumboSWISHER (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> what you didn't know that?


i dont think anybody did...? lol
but makes sence!! good info bro


----------



## Illumination (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> mix equal amounts and divide by 2 for the actual NPK ie: mix 20-20-20 with 10-30-20 add = 30-50-40 divide by 2 = 15-25-20



then divide by 5 and that gives you the ratio... 3-5-4



Ratio 3-5-4

Namaste'


ps-RM3 now your inbox is full


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## jumboSWISHER (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I could actually do that as the slop sink in the laundry room will take a hose, but the exercise is good for me


exercise is good =] 
but i hav a friend that ruined his whole crop from using a hose.... be careful putting your water into something that isnt sterile. even straight off the shelf there is unknown contaminants throughout the entire hose. im sure you thought of this, just dont wanna see another room go to hell... lol


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

jumboSWISHER said:


> exercise is good =]
> but i hav a friend that ruined his whole crop from using a hose.... be careful putting your water into something that isnt sterile. even straight off the shelf there is unknown contaminants throughout the entire hose. im sure you thought of this, just dont wanna see another room go to hell... lol


no worries there, not gonna use a hose


----------



## LiveHigh (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey, I've read your thread before but I honestly forgot. Would you mind sharing how much your CMH went for? I talked to my local hydro owner and he was talking about some really high prices for them and they're still in testing?

If you could clear it up, that'd be awesome.


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

LiveHigh said:


> Hey, I've read your thread before but I honestly forgot. Would you mind sharing how much your CMH went for? I talked to my local hydro owner and he was talking about some really high prices for them and they're still in testing?
> 
> If you could clear it up, that'd be awesome.


was posted on page 7, but here it is again,


my bulb
http://www.growlightexpress.com/cera...0-watt-79.html

my ballast
http://www.growlightexpress.com/grow...last-1268.html

my hood
http://www.growlightexpress.com/grow...ector-158.html

total $262 shipped (shipping was $33) 

They have been around for years and are not in testing, I would change hydro stores, guy don't know shit!


----------



## kolz2788 (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey riddle I've read all your posts and admire your work, I have a quick question for ya. I'm trying to pick a strain to grow, i've been reading the forums here for almost 2 years. What would you recommend? I want something very strong when grown properly, something tasty. I've noticed your a medical marijuana caregiver... so I figured who better to ask  Planning to grow in Soil with LEDs and t5's. Whats your input on LEDs? (tried to send you a PM but your box is full)


----------



## Illumination (Aug 31, 2010)

LiveHigh said:


> Hey, I've read your thread before but I honestly forgot. Would you mind sharing how much your CMH went for? I talked to my local hydro owner and he was talking about some really high prices for them and they're still in testing?
> 
> If you could clear it up, that'd be awesome.



http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm

http://www.growlightexpress.com/ceramic-metal-halide-bulbs-9/?zenid=mva259rng5kg13r5si9rda6v05

I believe the latter is where he purchased his...advancetech pre-burns the bulb before shipping which IMHHO matters a bit due to a rather higher than comfortable initial failure...pre-burning for 12 hrs. 3 times assures full lifetime of bulb according to Philips...hope it helps

Namaste'


----------



## Illumination (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> was posted on page 7, but here it is again,
> 
> 
> my bulb
> ...


Ooops you type faster than I...LOL...Just trying to help
Namaste'


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

kolz2788 said:


> Hey riddle I've read all your posts and admire your work, I have a quick question for ya. I'm trying to pick a strain to grow, i've been reading the forums here for almost 2 years. What would you recommend? I want something very strong when grown properly, something tasty. I've noticed your a medical marijuana caregiver... so I figured who better to ask  Planning to grow in Soil with LEDs and t5's. Whats your input on LEDs? (tried to send you a PM but your box is full)


IMO LED's have a way to go, seems they are good for side lighting though? I would never use one, I love my CMH too much

and I have smoked a lot of weed and nothing comes close to Tilders, LOL, KC Brains Northern Lights Special though taste wise it is like a hash with pepper on it, or perhaps I should just say it's peppery

I am looking forward to trying the NL #1 I am currently growing just because of the genetics in her Tai & afgany, I like my smoke to kick my ass and put me down, for a good sativa I like Jack Herrer


----------



## R C Glasscock (Aug 31, 2010)

hi riddleme,
I live on the coast of Virgina, we have a storm blowing through I was wanting to see if you had any ideas on how to stabilize a 7ft plant in a category 4 hurricane. Its about 4 weeks into flowering, I would hate to see it destroyed thanks for the help


----------



## Illumination (Aug 31, 2010)

R C Glasscock said:


> hi riddleme,
> I live on the coast of Virgina, we have a storm blowing through I was wanting to see if you had any ideas on how to stabilize a 7ft plant in a category 4 hurricane. Its about 4 weeks into flowering, I would hate to see it destroyed thanks for the help



As I am originally from Louisiana and was there for them all...lol.. Gotta love that in the face of a hurricane you are concerned about this plant....That is how special and intimate this plant becomes to the grower...Serenity in the supreme

Namaste'


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

R C Glasscock said:


> hi riddleme,
> I live on the coast of Virgina, we have a storm blowing through I was wanting to see if you had any ideas on how to stabilize a 7ft plant in a category 4 hurricane. Its about 4 weeks into flowering, I would hate to see it destroyed thanks for the help


Bummer, well I never had that experience but can suggest staking with guy wires, here is an example
http://www.tree-planting.com/tree-planting-6.htm

we did this when I worked for a nursery and it does add good support


----------



## rastadred22 (Aug 31, 2010)

yea i live in bermuda and the best thing to do is to make sure there noffin to fall or blow on it and steak it like riddleme says to do works wonders...all u need is a strong rope or anytype of lines and take rebarr and bend a hook in it and steak away! deeper the better...good luck! we go thru this everyyyy yearrr down here


----------



## LiveHigh (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> was posted on page 7, but here it is again,
> 
> 
> my bulb
> ...


Well, I'll be damned...it appears I could just swap my HPS bulb with a CMH bulb. I think I'm going to swap to CMH after this flowering is done, though, and go with a 600. 
-- edit: crapola...realized 400w are max. Hrm, doubt it's better than a 600w, but is considerably cheaper...

Appreciate it, thanks.


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

I'll take a 400 watt CMH over a 600 watt HPS everyday, keep watchin, I'll show you


----------



## Danielsgb (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I'll take a 400 watt CMH over a 600 watt HPS everyday, keep watchin, I'll show you


 I would too hands down.


----------



## LiveHigh (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm watching. Let's seee it!


----------



## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

LiveHigh said:


> I'm watching. Let's seee it!


What you have not liked the grow so far?


----------



## reefacheefa (Aug 31, 2010)

didnt you have a plant sitting outside of the direct light that grew 4 inches, in how long??

o dude! check her out!! 

thats a 16 oz can hiding in there lol! mmmmm


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## R C Glasscock (Aug 31, 2010)

Im going to stake it down the way the the site shows with a little song and prayer. I only planted one seed, she's 7ft tall with a 3"x18" top. Im worried its going to snap that heavy ass top off. I'll probably stake it off high and low and hope for the best.
thanks for everybody's help its most appreciated


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## rastadred22 (Aug 31, 2010)

use numerous steaks and start low and work ur way up and try to tug an pull at it to see if it sways if it does tie higher


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## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> didnt you have a plant sitting outside of the direct light that grew 4 inches, in how long??
> 
> o dude! check her out!!
> View attachment 1130054
> thats a 16 oz can hiding in there lol! mmmmm


Yes, it is 5 feet from the light, watered once in 3 weeks, grew 4 inches in same 3 weeks, tpopped it and has grown another 4 inches since that, but is now even with the others at 23 inches 

and that plant is beautiful (so is the can)


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## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

R C Glasscock said:


> Im going to stake it down the way the the site shows with a little song and prayer. I only planted one seed, she's 7ft tall with a 3"x18" top. Im worried its going to snap that heavy ass top off. I'll probably stake it off high and low and hope for the best.
> thanks for everybody's help its most appreciated


Best of luck, while your at it take care of yourself as well


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## Danielsgb (Aug 31, 2010)

R C Glasscock said:


> Im going to stake it down the way the the site shows with a little song and prayer. I only planted one seed, she's 7ft tall with a 3"x18" top. Im worried its going to snap that heavy ass top off. I'll probably stake it off high and low and hope for the best.
> thanks for everybody's help its most appreciated


I hope everything works out. Take care


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## LiveHigh (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> What you have not liked the grow so far?


Well, I don't doubt that the CMH would do well for veg. I wanna see it bloom like a 600 HPS.


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## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

LiveHigh said:


> Well, I don't doubt that the CMH would do well for veg. I wanna see it bloom like a 600 HPS.


Did you not see what I grew with only 97 watts of light? do you doubt that I will make this one sing? keep watchin, they will be flowering soon, I knocked the time down to 13.5 tonight


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## rastadred22 (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Did you not see what I grew with only 97 watts of light? do you doubt that I will make this one sing? keep watchin, they will be flowering soon, I knocked the time down to 13.5 tonight


def. dnt doubt u der!


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## Zink Man (Aug 31, 2010)

I think this grow will kick some ass


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## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

Zink Man said:


> I think this grow will kick some ass


I'm workin on it  gonna take some names too


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## Shayden (Aug 31, 2010)

If you get more than 5 ounces I will give you 800$


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## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

Shayden said:


> If you get more than 5 ounces I will give you 800$


really? why would you do that?

and actually I'm expectin a QP from each plant, looking to get a gram a watt


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## donni101 (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Did you not see what I grew with only 97 watts of light? do you doubt that I will make this one sing? keep watchin, they will be flowering soon, I knocked the time down to 13.5 tonight


Can I get a link to this grow 97 watt? Cant wait to seem you flower.


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## reefacheefa (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Yes, it is 5 feet from the light, watered once in 3 weeks, grew 4 inches in same 3 weeks, tpopped it and has grown another 4 inches since that, but is now even with the others at 23 inches
> 
> and that plant is beautiful (so is the can)


thats awesome man. its supposed to be the exact same spectrum as the sun, isnt it? dont see how it wouldnt do better than splitting the blue/red when nature gives the babes the full spectrum throughout their whole life, and outdoor yields are usually much better than most indoor...

o and thanks man, thats one of those strong ass four loko drinks. freakin 12% alcohol. brrr


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## Illumination (Aug 31, 2010)

donni101 said:


> Can I get a link to this grow 97 watt? Cant wait to seem you flower.


Here you go....https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/284736-goin-loco-first-colorado-medical-11.html

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

donni101 said:


> Can I get a link to this grow 97 watt? Cant wait to seem you flower.


It's the Goin Loco link in my sig


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## riddleme (Aug 31, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Here you go....https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/284736-goin-loco-first-colorado-medical-11.html
> 
> Namaste'


Beat me that time 

Thanks for helpin out!


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## donni101 (Aug 31, 2010)

I tried that drink 4 Lokos once the next day my head felt like my head had a bangover


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## Illumination (Aug 31, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Beat me that time
> 
> Thanks for helpin out!


LMAO!!! 

Namaste' teach


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## rastadred22 (Sep 1, 2010)

riddleme is it true that u can force the chlorafilm..cant spell... down to the roots by denying it light? an old rasta teacher of mine taught me that when growing outdoors throwin a trash bag over the tree for 2 or so days be4 u harvest forces the chlorafilm to search for light resulting it to disperse through your medium creating a smoother smoke...smiiliar to this 36hour dark period ppl do on there indoor grows


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## riddleme (Sep 1, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> riddleme is it true that u can force the chlorafilm..cant spell... down to the roots by denying it light? an old rasta teacher of mine taught me that when growing outdoors throwin a trash bag over the tree for 2 or so days be4 u harvest forces the chlorafilm to search for light resulting it to disperse through your medium creating a smoother smoke...smiiliar to this 36hour dark period ppl do on there indoor grows


I'm not buying it, nor do I agree with the 36 hour dark thing, that would be like your nose crawls down to your feet if you can't breath, looking for air


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## riddleme (Sep 1, 2010)

They have had their first long dark period, light cycle is now under 14 set at 13.5/10.5 and the timer is now set on the IR heater to come on 15 minutes before the light like I talked about. 

Up to now I have played with the heater and used it to adjust humidity (which I gotta tell ya is great) done various test to see how the plants reacted to it and as I hve said earlier they grow more when it is on, there is no doubt in my mind that they not only respond to it but like it.

This morning I was lucky enough to be awake as the sun in my garden rose (so to speak) I went down to watch, mostly to make sure that the timers were set properly and what I saw amazed me 

They were sleepin, leaves all droopy and relaxed, the heater came on (set to 78, morning temp in basement has been around 74) The leaves all woke up and began to rise as I watched, they acted like the light was on or had just come on, just as the temp reached 78 and the heater turned off, the light came on (so my set up on the timers was spot on ) and I could see by their response that they loved it.

They were also covered with new lime green growth (prolly more from the rain yesterday) I mean it was everywhere and looked so pretty if you know what I mean?

Now we watch to see what happens next


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## Danielsgb (Sep 1, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I'm not buying it, nor do I agree with the 36 hour dark thing, that would be like your nose crawls down to your feet if you can't breath, looking for air


Great analogy. I was trying to think of how the chlorophyll would look in a root for light?


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## LiveHigh (Sep 1, 2010)

I checked out your little 97w grow. Definitely badass for the wattage. Hmmm...well, I guess the only way for me to test it is to grow with a 400 CMH next grow and then a 600w after that...of the same plant. I guess I can do that. We shall see!


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## rastadred22 (Sep 1, 2010)

well they say that chlorophyll needs light to suvive so when u take that light away in need to survive it searches by going to the top of the plant then realising that there is no light there start to work its way down through the roots and out thru the soil...


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## EdGreyfox (Sep 1, 2010)

Riddle,

Since I'm just coming back, can you give me a quick synopsis on how many plants your growing this time, and which strains? I'd love to read the whole thread, but it's going to be a few days before i have time.

Just some thoughts about yield. I've come to the conclusion that chasing after ever increasing yields is a waste of time and energy for someone that is only growing for personal use, because sooner or later you're going to be growing a lot more then you can smoke. Sure, hearing someone say they have too much MJ sounds like a joke, but if I weren't splitting my harvest with my sister (who is also a MMJ patient) I would need to throw out between 1.5-2 OZ every week to stay inside the legal possession limits, and I'm really not trying to push my yields very hard. My last plant gave me a bumper crop (6.75 oz after drying and curing), and thanks to a seriously extended veg time I have one coming along that's likely to hit the 9-10 oz mark (the plants an INDICA and it's 6ft 3in tall 3 weeks into flowering), so it's easy to see that you can grow more then you can use without really pushing the yield envelope. Don't get me wrong-I love to see big yields, but I'm coming to the conclusion that trying to get anything more then 3-4 oz per plant isn't necessary for the personal use grower.


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## rastadred22 (Sep 1, 2010)

hey riddle....i have a seedling that i topped a lil while ago its still only like 2inches tall and i have it in the same cab as my budding ladies...she started to flower...which sux cuz shes sooo small...is there anyway i can get some more growth out of it be4 buds produce without moving it from that cab?


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## riddleme (Sep 1, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> hey riddle....i have a seedling that i topped a lil while ago its still only like 2inches tall and i have it in the same cab as my budding ladies...she started to flower...which sux cuz shes sooo small...is there anyway i can get some more growth out of it be4 buds produce without moving it from that cab?


Not without puttin it back in veg


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## riddleme (Sep 1, 2010)

EdGreyfox said:


> Riddle,
> 
> Since I'm just coming back, can you give me a quick synopsis on how many plants your growing this time, and which strains? I'd love to read the whole thread, but it's going to be a few days before i have time.
> 
> Just some thoughts about yield. I've come to the conclusion that chasing after ever increasing yields is a waste of time and energy for someone that is only growing for personal use, because sooner or later you're going to be growing a lot more then you can smoke. Sure, hearing someone say they have too much MJ sounds like a joke, but if I weren't splitting my harvest with my sister (who is also a MMJ patient) I would need to throw out between 1.5-2 OZ every week to stay inside the legal possession limits, and I'm really not trying to push my yields very hard. My last plant gave me a bumper crop (6.75 oz after drying and curing), and thanks to a seriously extended veg time I have one coming along that's likely to hit the 9-10 oz mark (the plants an INDICA and it's 6ft 3in tall 3 weeks into flowering), so it's easy to see that you can grow more then you can use without really pushing the yield envelope. Don't get me wrong-I love to see big yields, but I'm coming to the conclusion that trying to get anything more then 3-4 oz per plant isn't necessary for the personal use grower.


Hey Ed, there are 5 plants, 1 KC Brains Northern Lights Special (same as Tilders) 3 Sensi NorthernLights #1 (2 girls and 1 boy, I'm breedin) and one BigBud X PurpleErkle (F1 cross) They are 23 inches tall start week 7 of veg last sat, and flipped em last nite, light is a 400 watt CMH and Im feedin em Jacks Professional Peat Lite Special 20-10-20, there are a few test going on to back up some research and one experiment using IR heat, it has been fun so far


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## henery (Sep 1, 2010)

I have to disagree about the dark period doing nothing I mean a bag well ya but a dark period could be beneficial!

Not the dark period talked about earlier at the onset of flowering but at the last day of life so to speak!

It has been proven that a plants highest level of thc is in the morning before the light comes on so I think this idea deserves some merit!

It may not be a prolonged dark period or maybe just pick it before the light comes on but you seem very knowledgeable and might know how many hours a plant can use stored energy till you are hindering the idea!


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## riddleme (Sep 1, 2010)

henery said:


> I have to disagree about the dark period doing nothing I mean a bag well ya but a dark period could be beneficial!
> 
> Not the dark period talked about earlier at the onset of flowering but at the last day of life so to speak!
> 
> ...


Meant the 36 hours before flippin to 12/12 was useless, agree harvesting before lights on is a good thing and actually takes a long time for the plant (grown right) to die processes continue for weeks if allowed (most don't) and yeah I know a bit about it


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## henery (Sep 1, 2010)

Thanks for not jumping on me with my noob post count lol this is the only thing I think you can do better than nature I agree with emulating mother nature and just read the whole thread good work and nice reading!


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## riddleme (Sep 1, 2010)

henery said:


> Thanks for not jumping on me with my noob post count lol this is the only thing I think you can do better than nature I agree with emulating mother nature and just read the whole thread good work and nice reading!


Glad you enjoyed it, I don't jump on new growers, I teach em


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## riddleme (Sep 2, 2010)

Well I get to say it again, after only 2 days since I flipped em this is our guest plant (which I'm thinking about naming Holly) that is still just sitting on the floor 5 feet from the light and folks this is a fan leaf and I mean check out the stem!!!!

sorry about the focus, fans were still on but even so you can see em, F***ing trichs everywhere, this is gonna get absolutely crazy


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## rastadred22 (Sep 2, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Meant the 36 hours before flippin to 12/12 was useless, agree harvesting before lights on is a good thing and actually takes a long time for the plant (grown right) to die processes continue for weeks if allowed (most don't) and yeah I know a bit about it


the idea of a bag is only used becuase u cant turn the sun off...but yea dont trichs thrive during the night period? and y wouldnt extending the lights off period be a good thing if picking it in that lights off stage is good?...i was told newur from a few hours to 12....lookin good!! trichs everywur already! im about 34days into flower and my fan leaves arent that snowed out! cant wait to see this


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## Fditty00 (Sep 2, 2010)

Well well well. It seems I've taught you well, my little grasshopper I've been waiting for a reason to check this place. I check a few grows hear and there, but most my time is spent at Speedys. Glad to see all is well. Hope you dig the new house 
I'll be back to check ya, sober Edit (mever sober) sooner than later.

Ohhhhh, 36hr is a must. I know a old old old old school grower, who would use a trash bag, back in the day. He said by the 2nd day, it was swarming with bugs. That told him, it was ready. He said, all this OG, durban ect* couldn't hold a candle to those days. The plastic, made the plant sweat somethin terrible, also excreteing double the THC. 

I be back


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## rastadred22 (Sep 2, 2010)

Fditty00 said:


> Well well well. It seems I've taught you well, my little grasshopper I've been waiting for a reason to check this place. I check a few grows hear and there, but most my time is spent at Speedys. Glad to see all is well. Hope you dig the new house
> I'll be back to check ya, sober than later.
> 
> Ohhhhh, 36hr is a must. I know a old old old old school grower, who would use a trash bag, back in the day. He said by the 2nd day, it was swarming with bugs. That told him, it was ready. He said, all this OG, durban ect* couldn't hold a candle to those days. The plastic, made the plant sweat somethin terrible, also excreteing double the THC.
> ...



thats what im trying to get at sort of...but indoors u just shut ur lights off...i just dont see how it isnt beneficial


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## henery (Sep 2, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> thats what im trying to get at sort of...but indoors u just shut ur lights off...i just dont see how it isnt beneficial



Read my reply one page back for your answer!


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## riddleme (Sep 2, 2010)

Tried to get a better shot (in focus) of those trichs regular pic and a close up crop

enjoy


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## rastadred22 (Sep 2, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Tried to get a better shot (in focus) of those trichs regular pic and a close up crop
> 
> enjoy


thatss crazzzy


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## Zink Man (Sep 2, 2010)

Nice and frosty  man i cant wait till i get my cmh


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## reefacheefa (Sep 3, 2010)

oooooooo pretttty! lol is that a fan leaf almost covered in trichs?? beautiful Riddle man!!


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## Magnificient (Sep 3, 2010)

I check the new posts every day so that I won't miss anything. Your thread didn't show up on new posts for me until today. I don't know how that could happen, but I'm subbed. It's very good to see you back too. Sorry I missed your entry.


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## Magnificient (Sep 3, 2010)

Originally Posted by *riddleme*  
was posted on page 7, but here it is again,


my bulb
http://www.growlightexpress.com/cera...0-watt-79.html

And I was thinking I could burn them with my 400 watt magnetic mh ballast...dang it.


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

Well it has been fun so far right?
12 days since we took clones and we have roots on all but 2 of the 10
we have a jungle in the garden, took another light view shot this looking up thru DD
No top down shots (except the guest, Holly) they are at 29 inches now seems it was just a few days ago they were at 23? not sure you can see the yardstick?
I tried this morning to get a sunrise shot of the heater coming on but the IR light was not enough for the camera to get a good pic, was gonna try a flash shot then the batteries died, by the time I changed them the light had come on, maybe next time?

At this point we are all just waiting for them to start budding, which could now be any day, the little hairs are starting to show all over them.

Gonna be moving Udo to another room this weekend, put him under a CFL so he can make me some polen  gonna enlarge the drain holes on the buckets so the pots can breath better, gonna be a busy day in the garden 

Enjoy the pics as always


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## gumball (Sep 4, 2010)

very nice riddle. how much further can you raise your light? you are gonna have ALOT of stretch!! It will be interesting.


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## bobhamm (Sep 4, 2010)

looking really good! I have been thinking about the ed rosenthal thing you posted earlier. He says that blue light will "stop" the stretch and red light will increase it? so since the cmh bulbs have good amounts of both how will that affect the plants during bloom? you are growing a northern lights as you did before(that was under the cfl right?) do you notice any difference in the stretch yet?


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## R C Glasscock (Sep 4, 2010)

Riddleme the grow looks awesome. Thanks for all the well wishes. The hurricane weakened and I escaped with no significant damage.
I have a quick question for you. I have a 100 to 120 day super auto growing, do you think it would benefit from topping.


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

R C Glasscock said:


> Riddleme the grow looks awesome. Thanks for all the well wishes. The hurricane weakened and I escaped with no significant damage.
> I have a quick question for you. I have a 100 to 120 day super auto growing, do you think it would benefit from topping.


Have never grown an auto? but have read that most do not like being topped

glad to hear everything went well


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> looking really good! I have been thinking about the ed rosenthal thing you posted earlier. He says that blue light will "stop" the stretch and red light will increase it? so since the cmh bulbs have good amounts of both how will that affect the plants during bloom? you are growing a northern lights as you did before(that was under the cfl right?) do you notice any difference in the stretch yet?


there is a huge difference between this NL Special and the last one as far as the stretching goes, at this point I am not concerned as I am looking for how big they will get, next grow will be very different


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

gumball said:


> very nice riddle. how much further can you raise your light? you are gonna have ALOT of stretch!! It will be interesting.


got another 6 inches the light could go up, can always drop the raised platform, plenty of room there


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## gumball (Sep 4, 2010)

oh, didnt think about going down! i was beginning to worry this wonderful grow was gonna t-bone the light!!


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## MrStickyScissors (Sep 4, 2010)

nice grow.


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## xshooterx (Sep 4, 2010)

Good Morning Riddle,

Wow, things are getting kinda exciting and looking great! So the "sunrise" shot you want to get could be a really great pic. Gonna need a long exposure time though... at least a second I would guess. If your camera has a flash fill setting, that might give you the exposure time, and the flash will open up the deep shadows. Flash may also wash out the IR light though. Kind of a tricky shot, but could be very cool... especially when they got some big fat colas on em. You will also need something to mount or set the camera on (tripod if you got it) and use the camera timer to reduce camera shake.


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

gumball said:


> oh, didnt think about going down! i was beginning to worry this wonderful grow was gonna t-bone the light!!


Hope I don't have to, we will see?



MrStickyScissors said:


> nice grow.


Thank you!



xshooterx said:


> Good Morning Riddle,
> 
> Wow, things are getting kinda exciting and looking great! So the "sunrise" shot you want to get could be a really great pic. Gonna need a long exposure time though... at least a second I would guess. If your camera has a flash fill setting, that might give you the exposure time, and the flash will open up the deep shadows. Flash may also wash out the IR light though. Kind of a tricky shot, but could be very cool... especially when they got some big fat colas on em. You will also need something to mount or set the camera on (tripod if you got it) and use the camera timer to reduce camera shake.


Love the photog lessons, will have to look and see if the camera will do that, it does a lot I have not played with, even takes video (which I have done)


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## xshooterx (Sep 4, 2010)

Let me know what camera make and model you have and maybe I can figure it out for you.


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Let me know what camera make and model you have and maybe I can figure it out for you.


it is a cheap no name knock off, got it here
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/58-13730


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## gumball (Sep 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Hope I don't have to, we will see?


you will, i mean have you been paying attention to this grow??

you dont have buds yet, just hairs, so the real stretch hasnt even begun yet, correct? your treatment thus far has caused the awesome growth, so keep it up in see what happens!!!


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## Danielsgb (Sep 4, 2010)

R C Glasscock said:


> Riddleme the grow looks awesome. Thanks for all the well wishes. The hurricane weakened and I escaped with no significant damage.
> I have a quick question for you. I have a 100 to 120 day super auto growing, do you think it would benefit from topping.


Glad to hear that all went well. 

Riddleme those look great as always. I'm still thinking about that Ed Rosenthal excerpt and tossing around some ideas. You always have me thinking, as a true teacher does.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

gumball said:


> you will, i mean have you been paying attention to this grow??
> 
> you dont have buds yet, just hairs, so the real stretch hasnt even begun yet, correct? your treatment thus far has caused the awesome growth, so keep it up in see what happens!!!


Oh you know I will 



Danielsgb said:


> Glad to hear that all went well.
> 
> Riddleme those look great as always. I'm still thinking about that Ed Rosenthal excerpt and tossing around some ideas. You always have me thinking, as a true teacher does.
> Daniels


Share, share, share???


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## gumball (Sep 4, 2010)

daniels likes to keep ppl in suspense, then bam, he slaps ya with something great!!!


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## xshooterx (Sep 4, 2010)

Not enough info to tell, but one of those preset scene settings may have a flash fill which should give you a longer shutter speed. Damn, if I was about one state closer to you I might come shoot it myself


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Not enough info to tell, but one of those preset scene settings may have a flash fill which should give you a longer shutter speed. Damn, if I was about one state closer to you I might come shoot it myself


always welcome, your avatar is a great pic!


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## R C Glasscock (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks Danielsgb.
I thought that it being a 12 to 16 week plant,the same as a normal grow this auto might be different. It was a free seed so Im goin to see how it does. Thanks for the help Riddleme.


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## xshooterx (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks Riddle, it's part of a photo study I'm doing at a course I work at a couple times a week. Gonna do a media presentation at some point. Also working on a song about golf and the "golf goddess, GG". 

The judge is in her chambers, and the jury ain't come out, I'm standin in this courtroom with a shadow of a doubt. I wanted to believe but the doubt came out... kind of a "Roll Over Beethoven" melody. Being a song writer yourself thought you might be interested. Sorry for off topic


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## rastadred22 (Sep 4, 2010)

wow every update u ca c tha diff!!! looks good cant wait for some bud


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Thanks Riddle, it's part of a photo study I'm doing at a course I work at a couple times a week. Gonna do a media presentation at some point. Also working on a song about golf and the "golf goddess, GG".
> 
> The judge is in her chambers, and the jury ain't come out, I'm standin in this courtroom with a shadow of a doubt. I wanted to believe but the doubt came out... kind of a "Roll Over Beethoven" melody. Being a song writer yourself thought you might be interested. Sorry for off topic


No such thing as off topic, sounds good, why are you in court in the song?



rastadred22 said:


> wow every update u ca c tha diff!!! looks good cant wait for some bud


I try


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

I love spending hours in the garden, always so peaceful 

Drilled the bigger holes in the Homer Buckets, was cool cause saw roots, nice white healthy roots 

Fed em all to a gallon of water 1 tablespoon of molasses, 1.5 teaspoons of ProtK, 1 teaspoon of Jack's, hungry ass bitches.

Moved Udo to an upstairs closet, he is now under a familiar light 

and moved Holly in with the other girls, no longer a guest, gave her another spray of Dr Doom, just in case 

Put the rooted clones in dirt (happy frogs) gonna let em harden off a bit before transplant

Cut some more clones for the next go round (they are soaking) 

Changed all the regular basement light bulbs to red (they were blue) 

Started settin up the new Veg Room, gettin ready for the perpetual thang 

Ramble Out


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## xshooterx (Sep 4, 2010)

Court is a metaphor for the golf course... got an 18 pin jury too, lol, still working on flushing out the lyrics. I kind of think of it as (my) golfers angst. lol

The judge is in her chambers and jury ain't come out.
I'm standing here in the courtroom with a shadow of a doubt.
I wanted to believe but the doubt came out!


But I ain't guilty, well maybe I am.
Cause I would do most anything to get the grand slam.
Ooh but that judge GG, she got other plans...for me!




One under one under par, it's right there in that little jar
One under one under par, if this rolls in I will go so far




Seems the more you practice, the luckier you get.
Keep it in the short stuff, and don't get wet.
It's a game of misses my friend, now don't you forget!  


Now the 18 pin jury, they stand and they stare.
Make you hit that little white orb most anywhere.
And the golf goddess judge, she don't care!




One under one under par, it's right there in that little jar
One under one under par, the golf goddess judge will smile on me, I will be a star


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Court is a metaphor for the golf course... got an 18 pin jury too, lol, still working on flushing out the lyrics. I kind of think of it as (my) golfers angst. lol
> 
> The judge is in her chambers and jury ain't come out.
> I'm standing here in the courtroom with a shadow of a doubt.
> ...


Very Nice! LOL


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## xshooterx (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks RM. Now back to the project at hand; running 220v to the grow room. You're girls and boy sure are looking good. I can't wait to get to growing again.


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## Illumination (Sep 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I love spending hours in the garden, always so peaceful
> 
> Drilled the bigger holes in the Homer Buckets, was cool cause saw roots, nice white healthy roots
> 
> ...


Looking great Teach! I guess you can grow! Yep sure is da bomb spending time with the girls...time just flies...

Namaste'


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## atomicronick (Sep 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Meant the 36 hours before flippin to 12/12 was useless, agree harvesting before lights on is a good thing and actually takes a long time for the plant (grown right) to die processes continue for weeks if allowed (most don't) and yeah I know a bit about it


......what??? .......hmmm....must try this next time i snip off my tops and let the underside go for a few days, hey...


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## atomicronick (Sep 4, 2010)

you got some big girls there my friend, not too shabby what?  lol


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## reefacheefa (Sep 4, 2010)

beautiful healthy clones bro!!!! do you ever do any lst?? i think i see a little topping in there...


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## riddleme (Sep 4, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> beautiful healthy clones bro!!!! do you ever do any lst?? i think i see a little topping in there...


Very little LST, might play more with it someday? some of the clones were tops yes but have not topped the clones themselves


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## maniacal420 (Sep 4, 2010)

Very nice as always. You da man!!


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## WWShadow (Sep 4, 2010)

Ok Riddleme, I have a querry for you considering your current setup & all the "necessary" accessories. You suffer an extended power outage; for whatever reason your power is gonna be off for at least 5 to 7 days. What size generator would you need to power your garden or house + garden. 
just an off the wall question I thought of for some odd reason


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## Danielsgb (Sep 5, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Share, share, share???





gumball said:


> Daniels likes to keep ppl in suspense, then bam, he slaps ya with something great!!!


I got it ready to show the plan. A Medicinal Refridgerator has as full a rundown as I could get together. #411
For those in a hurry. CMH, HPS, IR, and Blue Light in my FrigiDare 2 Indica 
For a Rainbow in Spectrum Madness. Hope this will work well. Check it out all.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Sep 5, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> Ok Riddleme, I have a querry for you considering your current setup & all the "necessary" accessories. You suffer an extended power outage; for whatever reason your power is gonna be off for at least 5 to 7 days. What size generator would you need to power your garden or house + garden.
> just an off the wall question I thought of for some odd reason


a 6000 to 10000 watt generator would run my whole house including the garden, which currently pulls about 700 watts
this is one of my fav websites on the subject
http://www.theepicenter.com/tow123199.html


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## bigman4270 (Sep 5, 2010)

Hey teach, everything looking awesome! Those ladies are going to be monsters.lol


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## riddleme (Sep 5, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> beautiful healthy clones bro!!!! ...


gonna do a ditty on cloning soon, so stay tuned

just like growing, it's all about dialing in the enviroment and elements/variables


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## riddleme (Sep 5, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> Hey teach, everything looking awesome! Those ladies are going to be monsters.lol


They already are


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## sguardians2 (Sep 5, 2010)

I'm all in! Love the light, I am sooo tired of my 600 watt hps with the yellow light and high temps. Gonna go for the infared and MHC next time around, just gotta figure out how to hook up the thermometer, but my wife is an electrical genius, we'll get it figured out.

By the way, Kansas City Chiefs? We just suffer in silence, that's why we grow!


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## riddleme (Sep 5, 2010)

sguardians2 said:


> I'm all in! Love the light, I am sooo tired of my 600 watt hps with the yellow light and high temps. Gonna go for the infared and MHC next time around, just gotta figure out how to hook up the thermometer, but my wife is an electrical genius, we'll get it figured out.
> 
> By the way, Kansas City Chiefs? We just suffer in silence, that's why we grow!


Yeah I'm a Chiefs fan, but win or lose I still love em, not a fair weather fan 

and the thermostat is pretty easy need a digital thermostat, a 12 volt dc supply (get em at radio shack) a 12 volt 10 amp relay and wire to make the thermostat turn on the relay and the relay to turn on the heater, you also have to bypass the tip (over) sensor so you can aim it (unless you get one that is aimable, and yes they make em)


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## riddleme (Sep 5, 2010)

Was a very busy day yesterday, got 2 of my rooted clones transplanted, got the new veg area set up, the light is a homemade 200 watt cfl bank (8 X 26 watts, 6 at 6500K, 2 at 2700K) Why cfl's, cause I had em and cause clones don't like the big lights before they are established, I also want them to grow a bit slower as I plan out the perpetual garden 

Also see the new color coded 2 gallon pots, which is what I'll be switching to after this next harvest, I can get 10 of these where the homer buckets are now and I prefer 3 foot plants to 5 foot monsters 

Enjoy the pics

Edit: The mylar thingy is a windshield sunblocker for rv's (they have bigger windows)


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## sguardians2 (Sep 5, 2010)

Great, Thanks!

I won't be setting this up until after Thanksgiving, cause I'm only 2 weeks into my current grow.


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 5, 2010)

Good job RM3, as always. The perpetual is where it's at for your patients and your garden.


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## chainseeker (Sep 5, 2010)

I still think you need to give smart pots and or air pots a run.
Just as an experiment if nothing else.
I think you'd be surprised at the growth rates.


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## riddleme (Sep 5, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> I still think you need to give smart pots and or air pots a run.
> Just as an experiment if nothing else.
> I think you'd be surprised at the growth rates.


someday maybe? be more inclined to do the grow bags made out of recycled jeans  or make pots like Hobbes does


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## chainseeker (Sep 5, 2010)

I think all that available oxygen to the roots is great for plants.
Has anyone tried an air stone or just rig a pump to supply more oxygen to the roots?
Just something that's been on my mind lately.


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## riddleme (Sep 5, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> I think all that available oxygen to the roots is great for plants.
> Has anyone tried an air stone or just rig a pump to supply more oxygen to the roots?
> Just something that's been on my mind lately.


O2 is def good for roots, IMO I would think that you would end up watering more often, which I don't need to do LOL
the purpose is to prevent root spin out by air prunning the roots


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 5, 2010)

riddleme said:


> someday maybe? be more inclined to do the grow bags made out of recycled jeans  or make pots like Hobbes does


I actually use a similar product to Smart pots made from recycled jeans! . They're called Root Pouch, and are are extremely cheap. $.37 per 3 gallon bag. You like to experiment, so I say give it a try some day. 

Also, Id like to suggest you buy yourself a Caliber III Hygrometer/Thermometer combo since you are building a new veg room. My first hygro/temp combo I bought from Home Depot was off by 20% humidity. Caliber III is digital and mine is 100% accurate.

Oh, and with fabric pots, you do need to water more often, but this just allows more oxygen into the root zone. More _required _watering=greater plant health.


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## gumball (Sep 5, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> I still think you need to give smart pots and or air pots a run.
> Just as an experiment if nothing else.
> I think you'd be surprised at the growth rates.


he is growing a drain to waste hempy, instead of a resevoir hempy, in a soiless mix. so its kinda like a mix between the air pot and hydro with the rain technique he applies. 

thats pretty much right aint it riddleme?

i am taking a 6 inch net pot and lining it with the black weed preventing material, but I have a small grow space and use small pots.


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## riddleme (Sep 5, 2010)

gumball said:


> he is growing a drain to waste hempy, instead of a resevoir hempy, in a soiless mix. so its kinda like a mix between the air pot and hydro with the rain technique he applies.
> 
> thats pretty much right aint it riddleme?
> 
> i am taking a 6 inch net pot and lining it with the black weed preventing material, but I have a small grow space and use small pots.


yeppers, pretty much


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## R C Glasscock (Sep 5, 2010)

Hi Riddleme, I just started my grow with my 400w CMH and all I can say is WOW! I don't have any other light to start my seedlings with so I'm using the big light all the way through. I germed the seeds 5 days ago,they are all out of the soil and the first set of leaves are already as big as the cote leaves. I'm amazed at how fast they are growing. Do you mind if I post a pic on your thread of the the little girls? I have a question I would like to ask you. Thank you


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## watuptho (Sep 5, 2010)

dude this is awesome i'm just reading the first page but i'll be going through all 81 pages. looking forward to reading up on the top'n experiments and lst.


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## bobhamm (Sep 6, 2010)

riddleme said:


> someday maybe? be more inclined to do the grow bags made out of recycled jeans  or make pots like Hobbes does


I'm using a 2 gal laundry basket with landscape fabric, you should try the agroliner bags, breathable fabric with spin-out laminate, best of both worlds! and like 3$ each for a 5 gal bag, with all your other innovations it would be the ultimate grow


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## bobhamm (Sep 6, 2010)

Don't all lights give off infrared to some degree? and is it possible that one reason hps does well at flowering is partly to to the infrared it gives off and maybe not all due to the visible spectrum? is there such a thing as a light meter that measures infrared?


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## riddleme (Sep 6, 2010)

R C Glasscock said:


> Hi Riddleme, I just started my grow with my 400w CMH and all I can say is WOW! I don't have any other light to start my seedlings with so I'm using the big light all the way through. I germed the seeds 5 days ago,they are all out of the soil and the first set of leaves are already as big as the cote leaves. I'm amazed at how fast they are growing. Do you mind if I post a pic on your thread of the the little girls? I have a question I would like to ask you. Thank you


no problem, post and ask away



watuptho said:


> dude this is awesome i'm just reading the first page but i'll be going through all 81 pages. looking forward to reading up on the top'n experiments and lst.


sorry, but those experiments got changed, as you will see 



bobhamm said:


> I'm using a 2 gal laundry basket with landscape fabric, you should try the agroliner bags, breathable fabric with spin-out laminate, best of both worlds! and like 3$ each for a 5 gal bag, with all your other innovations it would be the ultimate grow


will add to my list of things to check out



bobhamm said:


> Don't all lights give off infrared to some degree? and is it possible that one reason hps does well at flowering is partly to to the infrared it gives off and maybe not all due to the visible spectrum? is there such a thing as a light meter that measures infrared?


yes and yes, most lights give off IR, most all heat from lights is IR heat and there are meters for measuring it


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## bobhamm (Sep 6, 2010)

than ks, thats what I thought. You (and many others) have said that the CMH bulbs produce less heat, so therefore less infrared? and UVB is filtered by glass/pyrex so, if using a CMH bulb in a cooltube(or glassed in reflector, I notice yours doesn't have glass, right?) adding both infrared and a UVB lamp would be beneficial to using a CMH lamp?


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## riddleme (Sep 6, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> than ks, thats what I thought. You (and many others) have said that the CMH bulbs produce less heat, so therefore less infrared? and UVB is filtered by glass/pyrex so, if using a CMH bulb in a cooltube(or glassed in reflector, I notice yours doesn't have glass, right?) adding both infrared and a UVB lamp would be beneficial to using a CMH lamp?


well I would say yes, but would never put a CMH in a cooltube, no need, and would defeat the UVB of the bulb. And no mine is wide open, no glass


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## Danielsgb (Sep 6, 2010)

I don't think the CMH produces too much less heat. Some, but it's not much. So the Pyrex absorbs some of the UV-B or all?


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## riddleme (Sep 6, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I don't think the CMH produces too much less heat. Some, but it's not much. So the Pyrex absorbs some of the UV-B or all?


most all of it


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## gumball (Sep 6, 2010)

riddleme said:


> most all of it


this got me interested so i looked into my acrylic manufacturer. so far it appears the acrylic heat shield i use, Duraplex by Plaskolite, is not s UV filter. it is UV stable so it wont break down by exposure to the sun, but it appears they have different grades that specifically filter UV. i am not saying mine doesnt filter it all, probably just not a lot. i am gonna continue to look.

EDIT: just found this, not sure what wavelength range our ladies like their UV dose in-
*UV control*
OPTIX clear acrylic sheet has UV transmittance of 10-20% (in the 250-400 nm wavelength range), and visible light transmittance of 92%.


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## bobhamm (Sep 6, 2010)

well, I still think its the best full spectrum bulb, I have a 400 watt cmh coming this week and I will try it with and without the cooltube since I have a pretty good idea what kind of heat the 400 watt hps puts out. Thanks to cdripper2 you can get the bulb riddleme is using 
for 35$ + 10$ shipping, from the best deals thread ( https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/237610-best-deals-thread-post-best-24.html#post4598171 ):
http://www.lightingsupply.com/products/product_detail.aspx?product=1343427fa4804e41b9bd353f08196e39&category=99172fa60656481fb998bfaa0944213c
discount coude "NWC10" , didnt mean to hijack your thread , just thought your "students" might be interested.


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## reefacheefa (Sep 6, 2010)

happy labor day Riddle maaaaan!!!!!! hows it going over there bro?


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## riddleme (Sep 6, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> happy labor day Riddle maaaaan!!!!!! hows it going over there bro?


couldn't be better, got Metallica jammin on the stereo and gettin ready to write the clone ditty


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## reefacheefa (Sep 6, 2010)

awesome!!! re-spect - crop!!!! ill be reading your peice on cloning.

somebody rep this guy for me!!!!!! i know its not gonna let me do it...


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## R C Glasscock (Sep 6, 2010)

I was just wanting to know if the leaves standing straight up like this was normal. I have 6 growing and they are all doing the same thing. Its probably nothing but just wanted to get the masters input. thank you very much for the help.


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## riddleme (Sep 6, 2010)

R C Glasscock said:


> I was just wanting to know if the leaves standing straight up like this was normal. I have 6 growing and they are all doing the same thing. Its probably nothing but just wanted to get the masters inpuView attachment 1139713t. thank you very much for the help.


at that stage not a problem, I would say if they don't "relax" once fully developed that there is something not properly dialed ie: to much water, lights to close, temp & humidity off


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## R C Glasscock (Sep 6, 2010)

I suspect the light is to close.. It at 28" I can raise it about another 18". I should have noticed that it might be a little intense on the seedlings. At least they're still green.


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## riddleme (Sep 6, 2010)

I really only ever wrote a small post once explaining that I cloned in sand and how and why, it was a while back and I believe is posted in my nuggets.

But very simply put all you need to clone a plant is a proper cutting a small bit of light and water. one of the pics is of 2 cuttings that are simply sitting in a cup of water on a window sill as I want to see how long it takes, yes it takes longer this way 

Everything we do is about bigger, faster, better. All the tricks and tweaks are about this, if you put a seed in dirt and water it, it will grow. But will it be all it can be?
no one is satisfied with waiting, while patience is a virtue, it is also a life/soul sucking whore and as with any subject there is an overload of info about cloning, there are so many tricks that like regular growing can easily confuse even an experienced grower. Once again what happens is you find something that works and stick with it, but that journey can be a rough one if you try to apply all of the tweaks as you won't know for sure which ones worked and which ones didn't? best to try them one at a time and be allowed to actually see the outcome.

I can tell you that if your having problems cloning, get an aerocloner, they are easy to use and they work, I have a friend that just recently started growing (has had 2 harvest) uses an aerocloner and gets great clones everytime in under 2 weeks, he never once struggled with cloning, it just works.

lets name a few of the "tricks"

use a rooting hormone
use superthrive
use bleach
use H2O2
there are several ways to use these things, I use a powder root hormone and just barely touch it to where I cut, I have learned that if I apply it liberally it eats (dissolves) the stem in just a matter of days.
I use one drop of superthrive along with 8 drops of chlorine bleach to a gallon of water to soak my cuttings in (for 30 minutes) I have leaned (by experimenting) that just 5 drops of superthrive will kill a clone (cutting) within days. and the bleach thing causes calluses to form on the stem and calluses are where the new roots grow, the soaking in bleach merely speeds up the formation of calluses, you could just use tap water if your city uses chloramine (why the cup of water in the windowsill thing works so well)
I use H2O2 in the bottom of my dome/tray as it keeps things from growing in the water and adds O2 to the humid air in the dome (not much)

then there is,

don't cut after a feeding
take cuttings after a good watering
cut at 45 degree angle
split the stem
cut directly under a node
scrape/rough the stem
fo me I just do the 45 degree thing 1/4 inch under a node and I cut the leaves at that node off 1/8 inch from the stem (leaving the knot) I don't split or scrape the stem, I do take cuttings after a good watering (rain) and before a feeding.

Then there is light,

Clones DO NOT want a lot of light, they do not want to actively photosynthesize. They want indirect light and just enough to stay alive, I already told you my light above the clones is a 15 watt T8, you'll see in the pic that at canopy level they are seeing 800 lumens (and that without the dome) it is a "blue" light or veg light. If you are using a bright light, then you must shade it. Move it far away and off center (plants not directly under it) you can use white printer paper or a paper towel to decrease the intensity or even pantyhose which is a great light difuser.

Cutting leaf tips,

This is to slow transpiration and thus slows growth but also tells the plant to beef up the root system so that it can repair the damage to allow it to transpire properly. I like to cut at least half of all but the very top leaves.

Finally there is enviroment,

Clone cuttings want very high humidity (90 to 100%) for the first 24 hours and a root zone temp between 70 and 80 degrees, I keep mine at 78, after this you can start to vent the dome to add fresh air (O2) I have a dome with adjustable holes in the top if you don't have this I advise you cut holes in the top of it, so it can breath. Or you can simply remove it several times a day for up to 10 minutes each time, this becomes a hassle, holes are best  The adjustable heat mat thing helps to keep things consistant and consistancy is very important, not only for cloning but for growing as well. It also helps if the medium is known to the plants as they will readily thrive in it without stress, mine are in happy frogs at the moment, where they started and they are thriving 

Finally and most important is Hardening Off,

this is a term used in gardening that simply means allowing the plant to slowly become accustomed to change rather than abruptly, it applies to any drastic change. in the case of clones we must consider weening it from the high humidity and and low light, you will see in a pic a pencil used to prop up the dome, I do this after the first week this increases the airflow and reduces the humidity in the dome. Also during the 2nd week I will take the dome off and leave it off till they start to droop (wilt) this can last for hours, when they droop I put it back without the pencil until they stand back up then I put the pencil back, I do this every day during the 2nd week. as for light I simply (as you saw) move them to a less intense light once planted, currently using cfls that are 6 inches above them, as days go by I will move the light closer, gradually increasing the amount of light they are getting.

and finally I wait untill roots are coming out of the medium before transplanting, there are pics of this, I have 2 more to plant today  and I will tell you that in the tray as you can see in the pics they are setting up above the water level that is in the bottom (pots setting on jiffy pellet rack) the soil in the little peat pots is merely moist I never water it, the humidity in the dome keeps the peat pots "wet" and soft allowing the roots to come out. Having them set in the tray this way makes the roots look for the water that is in the bottom, if the soil was wet they would not do this and I want them to do this so I know when to plant em 

Also in one of the pics you will see the temp probe for the heat mat just hanging out in mid air inside the dome, it is the ambient temp of the air in the dome that you want to adjust/control not the temp of the water in the bottom.

and here are a few of my favorite links on the subject

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xdpy/kb/cloning-tips.html

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/4478.html

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/100946-what-best-fastest-cloning-method-2.html#post1213828

http://www.essortment.com/all/plantsclonesho_rvca.htm

http://glauc.us/outgrowaeroponics/mistercloner/indexhowtocloneplantstwo.html

http://www.weedsthatplease.com/cloning.htm

this one is really good,
http://books.google.com/books?id=cHT3bMm3njsC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=best+temp+for+rooting+clones&source=bl&ots=TQv5UucAXL&sig=rTmYrhte9zGFLj1YaxhsS6Bz2fs&hl=en&ei=qKSDTMG_PJDAsAP01vWuDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/297055-how-clone-alot-pictures-very.html

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/210968-wecome-jungle-34.html#post3186396

Enjoy as always


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## rastadred22 (Sep 6, 2010)

usefull lesson!! love the classes u one of the best teachers here!


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## donni101 (Sep 6, 2010)

You are the best teacher I have read on a board. I have to check in everyday or two. Im still working on my first grow windowsill at week 8. My plants are only about 18-20 inches tall. I may go a few more weeks to fatten the buds. 1.5 gal pots. Any tips for me?


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## Delux83 (Sep 6, 2010)

pics always help


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## gumball (Sep 6, 2010)

donni101 said:


> You are the best teacher I have read on a board. I have to check in everyday or two. Im still working on my first grow windowsill at week 8. My plants are only about 18-20 inches tall. I may go a few more weeks to fatten the buds. 1.5 gal pots. Any tips for me?


sunlights fading, unless your at the equator, time to flower is fast approaching. stretch happens in flower, do you have space?


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## reefacheefa (Sep 6, 2010)

very good read Riddle bro!! how bout a little piece on starting seeds in a jiffy pellet?? lol


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## riddleme (Sep 7, 2010)

donni101 said:


> You are the best teacher I have read on a board. I have to check in everyday or two. Im still working on my first grow windowsill at week 8. My plants are only about 18-20 inches tall. I may go a few more weeks to fatten the buds. 1.5 gal pots. Any tips for me?


read all my threads 



reefacheefa said:


> very good read Riddle bro!! how bout a little piece on starting seeds in a jiffy pellet?? lol


didn't I already cover that


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## riddleme (Sep 7, 2010)

My new veg area is filling up nicely 

Tilders won't stop growing, yesterday I raised the light 3 inches today I supercroped her  I have never done it so figured what the hell better than cutting her and now we'll see what she does about it 

also got some more clones cookin, had a few request so figured why not, they will be going to good homes 

enjoy the pics as always


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## rastadred22 (Sep 7, 2010)

lookin good! wish i ca get one dem clones!


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## bigman4270 (Sep 7, 2010)

riddleme said:


> My new veg area is filling up nicely
> 
> Tilders won't stop growing, yesterday I raised the light 3 inches today I supercroped her  I have never done it so figured what the hell better than cutting her and now we'll see what she does about it
> 
> ...


Its all looking good my friend! Then again why wouldn't it?


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## chainseeker (Sep 7, 2010)

donni101 said:


> You are the best teacher I have read on a board. I have to check in everyday or two. Im still working on my first grow windowsill at week 8. My plants are only about 18-20 inches tall. I may go a few more weeks to fatten the buds. 1.5 gal pots. Any tips for me?





> riddleme;4610941]read all my threads




Classic! LOL


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## Illumination (Sep 7, 2010)

riddleme said:


> My new veg area is filling up nicely
> 
> Tilders won't stop growing, yesterday I raised the light 3 inches today I supercroped her  I have never done it so figured what the hell better than cutting her and now we'll see what she does about it
> 
> ...



Looking great teach!!! Think you gotta green hand not thumb!

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Sep 7, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> Classic! LOL


yes but so true 

and to all you lurkers out there, I bury things deep in my threads so to get it all you have to read it all, yeah it takes awhile but a bit of time is not a high price to pay for great weed


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## donni101 (Sep 7, 2010)

gumball said:


> sunlights fading, unless your at the equator, time to flower is fast approaching. stretch happens in flower, do you have space?


Mines are 8 weeks in flower just about 4-5 grams per plant 3 in windowsill. They were in veg in window four 4 weeks started in 16 oz cups. blah blah now they are 18-20 inches above soil level. They are budding now Ive been making it rain for about 4 weeks. Actually a time or two I watered/fed regularly and I see there is a growth difference with rain showing more growth in flower than a water/feeding with a little runoff. I have been around big grows but I wanted to see what I could do in the window. Its cool would have been much better w/ hid. the cmh with ir is impressive and the crystals on the leaves woah. Riddleme love how youre doing it. I have a question I cut one of my plants it has dried for 3 days and appears to be fully dried. Its petite about 6 grams w/stem attached. How should I dry if i need to dry further? How should can I cure this small amount?


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## riddleme (Sep 7, 2010)

donni101 said:


> Mines are 8 weeks in flower just about 4-5 grams per plant 3 in windowsill. They were in veg in window four 4 weeks started in 16 oz cups. blah blah now they are 18-20 inches above soil level. They are budding now Ive been making it rain for about 4 weeks. Actually a time or two I watered/fed regularly and I see there is a growth difference with rain showing more growth in flower than a water/feeding with a little runoff. I have been around big grows but I wanted to see what I could do in the window. Its cool would have been much better w/ hid. the cmh with ir is impressive and the crystals on the leaves woah. Riddleme love how youre doing it. I have a question I cut one of my plants it has dried for 3 days and appears to be fully dried. Its petite about 6 grams w/stem attached. How should I dry if i need to dry further? How should can I cure this small amount?


just put it in a small jar, when it wets up take it out till crispy on the outside, put back in the jar and repeat till dry, I use baby food jars for small buds, they work great


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## donni101 (Sep 7, 2010)

I might buy some banana baby food. I have a minced garlic jar if I wash it good that should work. thanks.


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## Delux83 (Sep 7, 2010)

I hope he didnt put it in the garlic jar.......


edit: well unless he REALLY likes garlic lol


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## riddleme (Sep 7, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> I hope he didnt put it in the garlic jar.......
> 
> 
> edit: well unless he REALLY likes garlic lol


it was that or nanners 

I love garlic


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## Illumination (Sep 7, 2010)

riddleme said:


> it was that or nanners
> 
> I love garlic


Would be awesome...Garlic flavored bud would be da bomb as I too love garlic...On a separate note while the LSD does have some smell it is not by any stretch strong as in amount but very spicy smelling as well as candy-ish ....strange huh??

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Sep 8, 2010)

Ok I have decided I like supercropping 
Tilders now has 12 tops instead of 4, I was so impressed by how she handled it I did it to DD, now gonna leave Kat alone to see the difference, since DD & Kat are very similar.
DD will now have 6 instead of 2 I am going to guess? we'll see 

Enjoy the pics


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## bigman4270 (Sep 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Ok I have decided I like supercropping
> Tilders now has 12 tops instead of 4, I was so impressed by how she handled it I did it to DD, now gonna leave Kat alone to see the difference, since DD & Kat are very similar.
> DD will now have 6 instead of 2 I am going to guess? we'll see
> 
> Enjoy the pics


looking great brother, definitely on the list of things to try!


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## Danielsgb (Sep 8, 2010)

They look happy. I've done some Suppercropping to try it out. I liked it too. 
I have a top on Pepe that looks like a Marine Haircut from it. I used her as a Mum, and moved her outside. Perfect even top is kinda pointless outside, but it worked for the spot she was in at the time. 
I have 2 I started flowering under the CMH for three weeks and finishing under HPS. I started 1 flowering under the CMH yesterday. I'll run her fully under a CMH then see how that works. All three using Jack's all the way through. I think the Silica boosting the K every other (or every) watering will do it. Trying to KISS.
You got a Mini-Jungle started. Great to see.
Daniels


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## gumball (Sep 8, 2010)

But riddle, they're in flower, your not suppose to stunt them in flower!!


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## riddleme (Sep 8, 2010)

gumball said:


> But riddle, they're in flower, your not suppose to stunt them in flower!!


It's the first week and better now than to have the light burn em while I'm work


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## gumball (Sep 8, 2010)

its cool, I was just kidding though. That is more of the forum rhetoric hype I disbelieve. If the plant gets damaged, its gonna try to fix itself, flower or not. Plus the first couple weeks of flower the plants are still vegging, and healthy plants like yours probably won't skip a beat with the pruning.


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## chainseeker (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm still scared to supercrop. 
When your space is limited it's scary taking chances.
My SLH has about 3 or 4 weeks out and I'm gonna try it with her replacement.
Thanks Riddle my courage is building. I think!


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 8, 2010)

Chainseeker, give it a go on a single plant and see how it recovers. Not all strains like being cropped though. I tried it with some Skunk Haze plants, and they all formed huge knots very quickly after being cropped, while TGA's 3rd D, and JTR never recovered from it and actually bled from it. 

Once you find a strain that handles stress easily, you'll be happy with supercropping. 

If Riddleme is alright with me posting a picture, Ill take a pic of my Skunk Haze mom tonight, that was supercropped for better clone material. It should help put your mind at ease.


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## chainseeker (Sep 8, 2010)

Great post thanks Dave.
On a side note JTR is some of the best herb I've had the pleasure of smoking.
I also hear it is tough to clone. 
Skunk haze sounds fantastic.


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## reefacheefa (Sep 8, 2010)

i was lst'n my last babe during the first week of flowering and accidentally supercropped one of the shoots. turned out to be the fattest bud on the entire plant...


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## riddleme (Sep 8, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Chainseeker, give it a go on a single plant and see how it recovers. Not all strains like being cropped though. I tried it with some Skunk Haze plants, and they all formed huge knots very quickly after being cropped, while TGA's 3rd D, and JTR never recovered from it and actually bled from it.
> 
> Once you find a strain that handles stress easily, you'll be happy with supercropping.
> 
> If Riddleme is alright with me posting a picture, Ill take a pic of my Skunk Haze mom tonight, that was supercropped for better clone material. It should help put your mind at ease.


Post away my friend, no rules here


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 8, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> Great post thanks Dave.
> On a side note JTR is some of the best herb I've had the pleasure of smoking.
> I also hear it is tough to clone.
> Skunk haze sounds fantastic.


JTR hasn't been difficult to clone ime. I doubt you'd have much problem if you did grow it. 

As for Skunk Haze, well Its pretty damned good. Better than my two JTR ladies, but definitely harder to grow. Lanky Sativas that take 90-120 days to flower. My first time growing a Haze hybrid, and well Haze is so dominant in these ladies, Im basically growing pure sativas. If you ever want to challenge yourself, Id say give it a try. If you ever order from Seed Boutique, you can request Sam the Skunkmans Original Haze x Skunk #1 as your freebie. They were better than the seeds I actually paid for. 



riddleme said:


> Post away my friend, no rules here


Thanks Riddle. Ill have it up in probably 5-6 hours when I visit the ladies. 

Btw, would you care to tell me what your temps are during lights on w/o IR treatment, and during lights off? Ive got some info to share my buddy gave me that you and your followers would benefit from. This seems like one of the best places to share it with so much traffic in here.


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## riddleme (Sep 8, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> JTR hasn't been difficult to clone ime. I doubt you'd have much problem if you did grow it.
> 
> As for Skunk Haze, well Its pretty damned good. Better than my two JTR ladies, but definitely harder to grow. Lanky Sativas that take 90-120 days to flower. My first time growing a Haze hybrid, and well Haze is so dominant in these ladies, Im basically growing pure sativas. If you ever want to challenge yourself, Id say give it a try. If you ever order from Seed Boutique, you can request Sam the Skunkmans Original Haze x Skunk #1 as your freebie. They were better than the seeds I actually paid for.
> 
> ...


right now (that the 90's are gone) lights on 80, lights off 73~74, heater is set to 78 and on a timer, mostly only comes on in the morning, unless I adjust it


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## chainseeker (Sep 8, 2010)

Wow guys (Riddle and Dave) you all really take it to another level.
Most of us never even think about breaking it down as far as you.
You all are valuable to this site they should pay you 
With all the trash info on here this thread is a breath of fresh air.


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## riddleme (Sep 8, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> Wow guys (Riddle and Dave) you all really take it to another level.
> Most of us never even think about breaking it down as far as you.
> You all are valuable to this site they should pay you
> With all the trash info on here this thread is a breath of fresh air.


Thank you, I came here and saw all the crap info (there was a lot of good info as well) and went on a mission to correct it 

Tomorrow is my 1 year aniversary here and though I have never counted I think I have helped with at least 50 new growers getting to harvest, that is reward enough for me

but Rollie could give the paid upgrade for free,,,,hint hint


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## donni101 (Sep 8, 2010)

Wanted to rep up cant at the moment. I have a question about yellowing leaves bottom 2 nodes in flower week 8. Im using cns17 ripe 1-5-4 nutes during flower the only high n I have is miracle grow 24-8-16 or 3-1-2 as a single digit nute strength. Im planning to go another week or two giving half strength nutes at next water/feed and water curing the last week or last couple of days. Any suggestions.


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 8, 2010)

donni101 said:


> Wanted to rep up cant at the moment. I have a question about yellowing leaves bottom 2 nodes in flower week 8. Im using cns17 ripe 1-5-4 nutes during flower the only high n I have is miracle grow 24-8-16 or 3-1-2 as a single digit nute strength. Im planning to go another week or two giving half strength nutes at next water/feed and water curing the last week or last couple of days. Any suggestions.


Im actually surprised you've made it to week 8 before starting to experience an N def. That CNS has too little N to support your plants. I would give it some of your MG, but not quite sure what dosage is required as I haven't used it. 

Here is a great link that will help you better understand the role of N. http://www.rainbowplantfood.com/agronomics/efu/nitrogen.pdf


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## riddleme (Sep 8, 2010)

donni101 said:


> Wanted to rep up cant at the moment. I have a question about yellowing leaves bottom 2 nodes in flower week 8. Im using cns17 ripe 1-5-4 nutes during flower the only high n I have is miracle grow 24-8-16 or 3-1-2 as a single digit nute strength. Im planning to go another week or two giving half strength nutes at next water/feed and water curing the last week or last couple of days. Any suggestions.


give it a dose of the MG a teaspoon to a gallon of water, just once should do it to stop the yellowing

and IMO water curing sucks, but every one should try it to see for themselves, I would not do the whole harvest though


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## Illumination (Sep 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Thank you, I came here and saw all the crap info (there was a lot of good info as well) and went on a mission to correct it
> 
> Tomorrow is my 1 year aniversary here and though I have never counted I think I have helped with at least 50 new growers getting to harvest, that is reward enough for me
> 
> but Rollie could give the paid upgrade for free,,,,hint hint


getting close thanx to you!!

GIVE RIDDLEME AN ELITE MEMBERSHIP!!!

there's my vote 

Namaste'


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## rastadred22 (Sep 8, 2010)

got my vote!


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 8, 2010)

Okay guys, Im gonna get some pics up I promise. It'll take me awhile though. Im all hazed out o my mind.

Supercropping/LST + 400w MH = Ubertight nodes?

This lady i going to give me super monster clones in a week or so. Switching from HPS to MH in my veg chamber is responsible for much of this though. I hope this isn' overload on pics..


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## Illumination (Sep 8, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Ive got some info to share my buddy gave me that you and your followers would benefit from. This seems like one of the best places to share it with so much traffic in here.


Love that green lady!!

And when are we going to get this info to devour??


And thank you as well for all the good non BS info you share as well my friend.

Namaste'


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## Danielsgb (Sep 8, 2010)

Illumination said:


> GIVE RIDDLEME AN ELITE MEMBERSHIP!!!
> 
> there's my vote
> 
> Namaste'


No one here deserves it more. Count my vote.
Daniels


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## rastadred22 (Sep 9, 2010)

looks good


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## riddleme (Sep 9, 2010)

Dave and I have been having a conversation about the possible effects of the IR heat on internode stretching (via PM) and I am posting this pic of the guest (Holly) showing that internode spacing is 1/2 inch (or less) as I believe the stretching on the NL #1's is mostly strain related, second pic is the first planted clone the fist node is 1.5 inches, second is ond inch and 3rd is a 1/2 inch, so far, clones are growing great, not getting rain yet 

Will also tell you that Dave is working on some good info to post and may post it here or in it's own thread, either way he will share it with us, so look for it


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## riddleme (Sep 9, 2010)

This one is for everyone, I think I like this supercropping thing, I like how they are responding and reacting and how it is filling in the canopy, they all end up looking like candy canes so I want to call this candy canning, rather than super cropping, I have done one of Kat's colas a node lower to watch the reaction, I will try to let the other one go


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## kingofqueen (Sep 9, 2010)

Looking good Riddle me ! Been lurking alot so haven't been getting my 2 cents in ! Think I,m gonna read up on supercropping though ! Very cool !


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## Danielsgb (Sep 9, 2010)

Happy first RIU Birthday. This site grew in TRUE info when _you_ joined. 
It's cool to see them recover, huh. Excited for Dave's info. I'm getting closer to a plan for my new project FrigiDare 2 Indica. Check it out if ya got time. (Gonna feel like a dumbass if I got that RIU 1 yr wrong) Would you mind tossing up a pic of you IR lamb, or the site it's from?
Daniels


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## riddleme (Sep 9, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Happy first RIU Birthday. This site grew in TRUE info when _you_ joined.
> It's cool to see them recover, huh. Excited for Dave's info. I'm getting closer to a plan for my new project FrigiDare 2 Indica. Check it out if ya got time. (Gonna feel like a dumbass if I got that RIU 1 yr wrong) Would you mind tossing up a pic of you IR lamb, or the site it's from?
> Daniels


Yeppers 1 year here today 

not a lamp it is a heater, here is a link, mine does not have the nitelite

http://www.amazon.com/Presto-HeatDish-Parabolic-Heater-Footlight/dp/B000IOTREI


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## WWShadow (Sep 9, 2010)

from the looks of the pics it looks like you simply bent the stalk just above the node. So the plant reacts af if you topped it but it repairs the bent stem & it continues growing...
I read the tutorial on cropping but your pics really put it into perspective. so everything on the bent stalk grows up toward the light & this is supposed to... encourage more bud growth? better bud growth? It certaily does make the plant look kind of funny, lol. I thik I'm gonna like this, Lookin' very good Riddle


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## rastadred22 (Sep 9, 2010)

woww! those bitches are filling out crazy! alot more green in that room


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## Illumination (Sep 9, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/365563-riddlme-deserves-elite-membership-powers.html

Here's a way^^ for us to show our appreciation for all we have learned from Riddleme....

Go there and vote and express your gratitude to this guy who has taught us and devotes so much time to our benefit

Namaste'


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## Dr. Nuggett (Sep 9, 2010)

*I have been following your thread and finally finished reading it completely. I was intrigued enough from the **CMH** light grow to subscribe.*

*I think I understand the let it rain concept, we always just called it flushing. I do however get that you are trying to mimic Mother Nature and she doesn&#8217;t flush but rains. While doing so she leaches out the nutrients that the plant doesn&#8217;t use and in her own way brews up a compost tea that washes back over and replenishes the nutrient to the soil.*

*Being a TLO grower myself I do not need to make it rain as often for I have never seen nutrient burn on any of my plants. But it is a great concept!*

*I am however curious about the IR heater. Are you just trying to copy nature by it being the 1st and last thing the plants see like a normal day? Why I ask is that from what I get out of reading about light is the more red light causes closer node spacing and that IR light causes stretch.*

*Also I have heard the the **CMH** light puts out less heat. In your opinion what is the difference between it and the **HPS**? How close can you get with the back side of your hand before it burns? This brings me to 1 more question about the **CMH**. The question is about adding Si. Is adding this do to the fact that you are not using real soil or that the **CMH** causes the plant to grow at a faster rate, and normal nutes can&#8217;t keep up, or for pest and disease control. Just curious!*

*Over all I think you are doing a real nice service here helping out all the noobs. You have some very interesting and sound advice. Oh and the lady porn is nice to. Keep up the good work and I will keep following your thread if that is all right.*


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 9, 2010)

I definitely believe genetics play a role in how much plants stretch. Some are just more sensitive to far red light/infrared I believe. I have noticed this with my Skunk Hazes. When I grew them from seed, they were under 1200w of HPS, and well lets just say they stretched until they couldn't stretch any more. The average internodal distance on the first day of flowering was 2.4 inches. I didn't feel that was too bad since it was mostly Sativa.

It wasn't until I got clones underneath my MH bulb until I realized just how tight the internodes can be packed on a Sativa. Im actually quite surprised. These clones have tighter internodes than any of my other strains I grew under HPS, and that includes indica hybrids.

The key difference is thats HPS bulbs emit more far-red light/infrared light that causes stretch. 

I did a quick google, and pulled this from a site:

_The attraction to photoselective films came about during the energy crisis of the 1980s when these coverings were marketed as energy saving devices. Currently, photoselective plastics are being evaluated for their potential to filter out the near-red portion of the infra-red spectrum  the light that plants use to sense when they are crowded, which leads to stem elongation or "stretch." 
Peg McMahon, assistant professor at The Ohio State University, found that a very wide selection of plants (most bedding plants, mums, Easter lilies, poinsettias and others) grown under infra-red blocking plastics are shorter, more compact and darker green than plants grown on open benches without any additional shade. Such a plastic would also be of interest to greenhouse vegetable growers because daminozide (Altar), once the primary chemical for controlling vegetable height, has been banned in the United States. 
The implication of McMahons research for growers is that infra-red, photoselective coverings could be used to cover greenhouses and retard stretch without the use of, or with a great reduction in the use of, growth regulators. If a product of this type could be successfully developed and marketed, it could mean vast differences in the way most of the horticultural industry functions. 
_
Here is the website I pulled it from: http://www.gpnmag.com/greenhouse-structures-article2267

I thought Id put up a few pics showing how much of a difference HPS, and MH make in terms of stretch. It may blow some peoples minds .

The first picture are some Skunk Haze males. I couldn't find any good shots of my ladies at this time, but the males and females were very similar in stature. 



And now a clone of SkunkHazeD. At day one of flowering the seed mother had an internodal distance of 2.16. Now its just a hair over 1 inch. 




Btw, that Holly looks great. Real tight nodes on that one.


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## Dr. Nuggett (Sep 9, 2010)

*Dave, I read your article and it was exactly my point. *

*That is why I asked why he was using it if not to just imitate nature by signaling to the plants it was becoming light and then again to signal it was time for night. *

*Being a sativa man myself I do however know that in most cases sativa has longer node spacing than indicas, but not always. I also agree with you that it depends on the genetics.*

*I hope you don&#8217;t think I am here to argue, for I have been growing sense 1973 and am still learning. That is why I ask the questions. I am always curious to find out about new things that will help to master this wonderful gift from GOD.*

*By the way I hope you don&#8217;t get jealous but I have my eye on your ladies. Nice!*


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## riddleme (Sep 9, 2010)

Dr. Nuggett said:


> *Dave, I read your article and it was exactly my point. *
> 
> *That is why I asked why he was using it if not to just imitate nature by signaling to the plants it was becoming light and then again to signal it was time for night. *
> 
> ...


Howdy Dr Nugget and welcome, I do it have the IR heater set up to come on before the lights so yes in that fashion I am trying to mimic mom nature, but the real intent of the experiment is to give the plants heat (like the sun does) without it having to come from the light. I have thus far found (as I thought) that the light can be much further away and cover a larger area, but of course the end of the grow has not happened yet???


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## Dr. Nuggett (Sep 10, 2010)

May I ask what you hope to gain by giving them heat before the lights come on?


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## riddleme (Sep 10, 2010)

Dr. Nuggett said:


> May I ask what you hope to gain by giving them heat before the lights come on?


Don't know, that's why it's an experiment, I am doing it having read that the IR portion of the suns spectrum is the first thing the plants see as the sun rises, I can tell you I have watched em and they respond to it, they wake up and raise the leaves as if the light was on and it is only for minutes the actual temp does not raise that much before the light comes on

won't know what I'm gaining untill they start buddin


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 10, 2010)

Well guys, I seem to have lost the email that contained the info Riddleme had mentioned before, but I did find a webpage that has the same info. Its a somewhat long read, and I wont summarize it. If you want the knowledge, you will just have to read all of it. 

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/nursery/fnabc/Proceedings/TempAndIntegratedControl.htm


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## Dr. Nuggett (Sep 10, 2010)

*Cool. *

*I didn&#8217;t know if you had an agenda in mind or not. Sometimes just a simple experiment leads to something special. I wish you all the luck and look forward to seeing the results. *

*I would also like to know what you guys think about the theory of UV light boosting potency. *


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## riddleme (Sep 10, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Well guys, I seem to have lost the email that contained the info Riddleme had mentioned before, but I did find a webpage that has the same info. Its a somewhat long read, and I wont summarize it. If you want the knowledge, you will just have to read all of it.
> 
> http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/nursery/fnabc/Proceedings/TempAndIntegratedControl.htm


is this it Dave?
http://www.griffins.com/tech_service/newPdfs/Controlling%20Plant%20Stretch%20Through%20the%20Morning%20Temperature%20Dip.pdf


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## riddleme (Sep 10, 2010)

Dr. Nuggett said:


> *Cool. *
> 
> *I didn&#8217;t know if you had an agenda in mind or not. Sometimes just a simple experiment leads to something special. I wish you all the luck and look forward to seeing the results. *
> 
> *I would also like to know what you guys think about the theory of UV light boosting potency. *


It definately increases trich & resin production


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 10, 2010)

riddleme said:


> is this it Dave?
> http://www.griffins.com/tech_service/newPdfs/Controlling%20Plant%20Stretch%20Through%20the%20Morning%20Temperature%20Dip.pdf


I came across that page too, and it has much of the same info the email had among other stuff. Ill see if he still has a copy of the email, and will post any extra info that could be of use.


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## WWShadow (Sep 10, 2010)

riddleme said:


> It definately increases trich & resin production


Don't you get UV from the CMH bulbs? If so , is is enough UV, how much does it take to make the grade? I remember someone posting that you could get sunburned under the CMH so if that is true then you are probably getting plenty of UV rays right?


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## riddleme (Sep 10, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> Don't you get UV from the CMH bulbs? If so , is is enough UV, how much does it take to make the grade? I remember someone posting that you could get sunburned under the CMH so if that is true then you are probably getting plenty of UV rays right?


yeppers, plenty of UVB from CMH, one of the reasons I chose it


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## donni101 (Sep 10, 2010)

so low morning temps around -5 cooler than night time temps help to prevent stretch. The dip technique is used during the first 3 hours of morning while normal temps may be adjusted for the remainder of the light cycle. Riddleme are your morning temps lower than light than light off temp? Will you use this method on this or a future grow?


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## riddleme (Sep 10, 2010)

donni101 said:


> so low morning temps around -5 cooler than night time temps help to prevent stretch. The dip technique is used during the first 3 hours of morning while normal temps may be adjusted for the remainder of the light cycle. Riddleme are your morning temps lower than light than light off temp? Will you use this method on this or a future grow?


my morning temps are always lower (light gives off heat) I try to maintain a 10 degree difference, currently it is 6


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 11, 2010)

donni101 said:


> so low morning temps around -5 cooler than night time temps help to prevent stretch. The dip technique is used during the first 3 hours of morning while normal temps may be adjusted for the remainder of the light cycle. Riddleme are your morning temps lower than light than light off temp? Will you use this method on this or a future grow?


It needn't be -5 cooler. It can be the same as your night temperature, and this will help reduce stretching. If you go too low, you risk it being too cold for maximum rates of growth and photosynthesis. 

My buddy sets his day temps to 75, night temps 70, cold morning dump set at 70 as well if I recall correctly. I would try to emulate that.

Not crowding your plants together will also reduce your stretch. Give each one more space between themselves if possible. They sense each others presence, and stretch as a survival mechanism. They can't allow other plants to outgrow them and hog they light, so they stretch to keep up.


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## bobhamm (Sep 11, 2010)

so, what are the advantages and disadvantages of shorter internodes? are there any disadvantages to shorter internioeds? possibly more mold problem if you dont have proper airflow?


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## riddleme (Sep 11, 2010)

I have been contacted by Ed's assistant Ed is currently out of town, and she is taking a look at the journal to inform him about it

that book just might happen after all???


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## gumball (Sep 11, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I have been contacted by Ed's assistant Ed is currently out of town, and she is taking a look at the journal to inform him about it
> 
> that book just might happen after all???


thats cool to have gotten a call back riddleme, congrats!! keep us posted.


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## Brooklynz Kush (Sep 11, 2010)

Ive been looking at this journal and wow is all i can say.Riddleme you are a good dude.


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## riddleme (Sep 11, 2010)

Brooklynz Kush said:


> Ive been looking at this journal and wow is all i can say.Riddleme you are a good dude.


Thank you, glad your enjoying it!


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## Danielsgb (Sep 11, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I have been contacted by Ed's assistant Ed is currently out of town, and she is taking a look at the journal to inform him about it
> 
> that book just might happen after all???


Sweet. I hope that works. You have the skills and knowledge to write a book.
Daniels


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## reefacheefa (Sep 11, 2010)

sounds awesome Riddle! cant wait to see what the grows gonna look like after you became a multi-platinum author lol.


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## kingofqueen (Sep 11, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> so, what are the advantages and disadvantages of shorter internodes? are there any disadvantages to shorter internioeds? possibly more mold problem if you dont have proper airflow?


Shorter internodes = shorter plant = better light penetration= bigger buds


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## riddleme (Sep 11, 2010)

Well I have posted so many pics this week I really did not think an update was in order but what the hell?

Made it rain this morning, I have waited almost 2 weeks since the last time, because I do not like to rain during the stretch. 2 of the pots were almost bone dry and Kat started drooping last night, so it was time

I did knock 3 of Tilders branches down again, this time 2 nodes lower, just to see what happens?

and there are pics of all, a few showing that buds are startin to form and one of Udo's balls  also if you look at the clone pics you will see that on the far left is one with 2 stems, this was a lower topped node and I thought I would try this to see what happens, the actual node is planted so the 2 stems are actually one plant

And because I had gone so long between watering I added a gallon of nutes on the last bit of rain, it was 2 teaspoons of ProteK, 1.5 teaspoons of Jack's 1 oz of 3% H2O2 and 1/2 teaspoon of Epsom tea (preventative measure) I also added a drop of soap to each gallon of rain (Ivory) because I saw air bubbles comming out, meaning I have air pockets, this most likely due to going so long without rain 

Should start seeing buds this next week, I know everyone is waiting 

Enjoy!


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 11, 2010)

Right on RM3, get that book going brother


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## rastadred22 (Sep 11, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I have been contacted by Ed's assistant Ed is currently out of town, and she is taking a look at the journal to inform him about it
> 
> that book just might happen after all???


thats wats up teach good luck


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## gumball (Sep 11, 2010)

i think the clone you buried below the top 2 nodes will root better and grow better.


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## rastadred22 (Sep 11, 2010)

those things are bigger every update! and those clones look oh so good! are they rooted yet? they look like theyve grown a bit


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## rastadred22 (Sep 11, 2010)

hey riddle...i just came across a 100 watt phillips cmh...u think that be anygood? im debating goin to get a ballast seeing as there isnt anywhere i can go in country to get a digital ballast...but yea i can get a ballast for it itss a bit pricey just wanted to kno if i should bother with it or stop wasting my time...i mean i figure anything better than a 42watt cfl...also have a 250hps..


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## gumball (Sep 11, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> hey riddle...i just came across a 100 watt phillips cmh...u think that be anygood? im debating goin to get a ballast seeing as there isnt anywhere i can go in country to get a digital ballast...but yea i can get a ballast for it itss a bit pricey just wanted to kno if i should bother with it or stop wasting my time...i mean i figure anything better than a 42watt cfl...also have a 250hps..


go to 1000bulbs.com. match the ansi number from the bulb to the ansi number on the ballast. it is a pulse start ballast on the low watt philips CMH, i have one so i know.


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## Danielsgb (Sep 11, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> hey riddle...i just came across a 100 watt phillips cmh...u think that be anygood? im debating goin to get a ballast seeing as there isnt anywhere i can go in country to get a digital ballast...but yea i can get a ballast for it itss a bit pricey just wanted to kno if i should bother with it or stop wasting my time...i mean i figure anything better than a 42watt cfl...also have a 250hps..





gumball said:


> go to 1000bulbs.com. match the ansi number from the bulb to the ansi number on the ballast. it is a pulse start ballast on the low watt philips CMH, i have one so i know.


I think this would be the one you need, but like gumball said ANSI code is the key. You'll love the CMH. I have a 400W, 150W, 70W, and a 250W coming online soon. A 250W uses a HPS ballast so you could have one there if it's not Digital too maybe. It's under 250, they go to Pulse Start MH.
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/7354/BV-V90D5932K.html
Hope that helps.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Sep 11, 2010)

And I will say that some CMH is better than none


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 11, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> so, what are the advantages and disadvantages of shorter internodes? are there any disadvantages to shorter internioeds? possibly more mold problem if you dont have proper airflow?


It could possibly lead to mold, if the buds are dense enough, but invest in a dehumidifier if humidity is at a high enough level to cause mold. 

As for advantages, shorter internodes will give you more full sticks of buds instead of nuggets of bud.


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## rastadred22 (Sep 11, 2010)

ight i think imma do it...she cost $180 here for the ballast...but hey if i can increase my yeild y not...but i ask cuz i only wanna do it if im goin to get my moneys worth


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## gumball (Sep 11, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> ight i think imma do it...she cost $180 here for the ballast...but hey if i can increase my yeild y not...but i ask cuz i only wanna do it if im goin to get my moneys worth


for $180 i think i would look at other options before i made the plung. maybe $180 for a 400 watt or a 250 watt, but for 100 watt? i paid $60 for mine, but i live in the states.


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## rastadred22 (Sep 11, 2010)

noo i have the light bulb that was free from my job...the ballast cost 180$ itsd my only option if i wanna run this bulb and therent arent any digital ballast sold here and im not bringing one in thru customs..and here prices are crazzzy! $150 a quater oz!!!!....u see y i grow lol! but we make alot of money as well so it kinda evens out...to be honest i dont kno anyone who even gets paid $10 n hour here even if they just started...but yeaa shipping sux so our imports are pricey!


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## bobhamm (Sep 12, 2010)

So... there basically are no (easily overcome) disadvantages to shorter internodes. so far, it appears that warmer nights than days will shrink the internodal length,correct? up to a 12 degree difference in some species...true this is not with mj, but lets assume that its true, I have read similar in specific relation to mj so it seems reasonable. What else shortens internodes? so our(or at least A goal) is to shorten internodal length and increase trich/resin production. The UVB from the CMH will help with the trich resin. We've seen the growth rates from "making it rain" and basically riddles methods, how does this affect internodal length? Has anyone counted nodes on "finished" plants in general? very strain dependant? could you grow 3 foot full grown sativas if you could keep the nodes as close as possible? how close is possible? More nodes = more bud? boy I wish this was legal, how much fun could we have doing science ? not to mention smoking the results?


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## gumball (Sep 12, 2010)

Keep humidity down in flower and you help prevent bud mold, shorter internode disadvantage #1 prevented! Somewhat at least. If your growing 2 liter bottle size cola's then there may be no help!!


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## chainseeker (Sep 12, 2010)

Hey Riddle can you point me a direction to research a problem.
Some of the sugar leaves are curling downward. The
fans are great and everything is moving along nicely.
I've found plenty on fan leaf curling.
I was wondering if you covered this already and I missed it.


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## riddleme (Sep 12, 2010)

chainseeker said:


> Hey Riddle can you point me a direction to research a problem.
> Some of the sugar leaves are curling downward. The
> fans are great and everything is moving along nicely.
> I've found plenty on fan leaf curling.
> I was wondering if you covered this already and I missed it.


post some pics please and let's have a look


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## chainseeker (Sep 12, 2010)

Cool!
Super Lemon Haze I found out like less than a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of Jack's or maybe it's maybe just the phenotype.
12/12 from seed and I topped her to keep this pheno because I don't have much room to work with atm so I can't reveg.
The top is now a mother plant.

SLH
















Sour Cream






But these aren't showing any curl at all


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## gumball (Sep 12, 2010)

Your funny chain!! Yea those pins have no curl, only in your toes!!

My guess is a micro def, which one is tuff to say!


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## gumball (Sep 12, 2010)

Your funny chain!! Yea those pins have no curl, only in your toes!!

My guess is a micro def, which one is tuff to say!


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## riddleme (Sep 12, 2010)

Do you make it rain (flush every time you water?) cause it looks like too much N to me, but could be a lockout. Not familiar with the strain but I would flush and do a plain water (no nutes) after that then resume normal feeding


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## chainseeker (Sep 12, 2010)

Done!
Flushed with 7.2 tap that's been sitting a few days.
I follow Jack's duo 1/4 teaspoon per gallon and about three feedings ago
I switched to bloom only. The leaves were curling before I switched.
I think too much N is a good diagnosis because I'm definitely guilty of using too little 
water and therefore not flushing well enough. Plus I had been mixing bloom and all purpose
to keep the leaves a bit on the darker side. If you need me I'll be reading about making it rain


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## gumball (Sep 12, 2010)

He has a great post about it on page 60 something of this thread! Its like hydro in soil, really!


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## riddleme (Sep 12, 2010)

it's on page 32, here is a direct link to it
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/347914-balls-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-32.html#post4480637


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## gumball (Sep 12, 2010)

Wow, really? Its amazing how fast these threads, and time, go by!! Thanks riddleme


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 12, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> So... there basically are no (easily overcome) disadvantages to shorter internodes. so far, it appears that warmer nights than days will shrink the internodal length,correct? up to a 12 degree difference in some species...true this is not with mj, but lets assume that its true, I have read similar in specific relation to mj so it seems reasonable. What else shortens internodes? so our(or at least A goal) is to shorten internodal length and increase trich/resin production. The UVB from the CMH will help with the trich resin. We've seen the growth rates from "making it rain" and basically riddles methods, how does this affect internodal length? Has anyone counted nodes on "finished" plants in general? very strain dependant? could you grow 3 foot full grown sativas if you could keep the nodes as close as possible? how close is possible? More nodes = more bud? boy I wish this was legal, how much fun could we have doing science ? not to mention smoking the results?


You can use plant growth retardants that block the synthesis of gibberellic acid. This will reduce internodal length, but I wouldn't bother. You've seen how tight the internodes are on my mostly sativa skunk haze using just MH.


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## grnbutr (Sep 12, 2010)

Hi new to this and i just got done reading this from page one so I may be wrong on this but the guy from burmuda keeps saying hes buying a dig ballast for cmh I thought it was mag ballast for cmh I ask cause I am sold on this and was going to buy a hps for my flo room but not now? BTW This has been one of the best things Ive read so far for a bigginer thanks to all.


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## bobhamm (Sep 13, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> You can use plant growth retardants that block the synthesis of gibberellic acid. This will reduce internodal length, but I wouldn't bother. You've seen how tight the internodes are on my mostly sativa skunk haze using just MH.


no, that would be cheating, I'm not organic but those chemicals just dont sound like a good idea  next grow Ill incorporate a lot of riddles tech and work on shortening the internodes, LST and supercropping shouldn't affect internoodal length should they?


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## rastadred22 (Sep 13, 2010)

grnbutr said:


> Hi new to this and i just got done reading this from page one so I may be wrong on this but the guy from burmuda keeps saying hes buying a dig ballast for cmh I thought it was mag ballast for cmh I ask cause I am sold on this and was going to buy a hps for my flo room but not now? BTW This has been one of the best things Ive read so far for a bigginer thanks to all.


not buying a big ballast buying the only ovverpriced non digital ballast available to me


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 13, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> no, that would be cheating, I'm not organic but those chemicals just dont sound like a good idea  next grow Ill incorporate a lot of riddles tech and work on shortening the internodes, LST and supercropping shouldn't affect internoodal length should they?


Supercropping should help since more of the plant is now getting the same amount of red/far-red. Whereas if you just left the plant to grow vertically, there is a greater amount of far-red/red light reaching the lower parts and that will lead to stretching, so crop away I say. 

I dont have much experience with lst, but I imagine it will help too. Keeping plants short and bushy is better than letting them grow tall and 'skinny' for indoors cultivation.


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## Danielsgb (Sep 13, 2010)

RiddleMe, some of my lower fan leaves are out of whack. Could this be from the Pro-teKt? A nutrient lock-out? It's only had Jacks and Pro-teKt. Flushing her soil seems good, then a 1/4 Jack's next was my plan so far.
Daniels


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## Illumination (Sep 13, 2010)

cal or mag my guess...agree with the flush lite nute and maybe some molasses for the cal mag?

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Sep 13, 2010)

Agree Cal/Mag also possible lockout?


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## shnkrmn (Sep 13, 2010)

Protekt, added first to my reservoir, raises the pH to 8.4 starting with RO water. So if you aren't checking pH closely, you could raise your soil pH and cause a lockout. In my case I use the whole dynagro line, so the other products when added knock the pH back to about 6.0, right where I want it.


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## grnbutr (Sep 13, 2010)

I have a question and since there are so many ppl on this post that seam to really know there shit and since Mr. Riddleme has so much to offer in knowledge I feel this is the best place to get a relpy so here goes.

I live in pacific NW and have a grow in garage and am just geting my sprouts out of the ground. I was thinking of runing lights at night to keep the temps up as its getting cold at nite 50s, anyone know why I should'nt do this it's a legal grow? 

Thank you all for the time and knowledge you have shared.


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## LiveHigh (Sep 13, 2010)

grnbutr said:


> I have a question and since there are so many ppl on this post that seam to really know there shit and since Mr. Riddleme has so much to offer in knowledge I feel this is the best place to get a relpy so here goes.
> 
> I live in pacific NW and have a grow in garage and am just geting my sprouts out of the ground. I was thinking of runing lights at night to keep the temps up as its getting cold at nite 50s, anyone know why I should'nt do this it's a legal grow?
> 
> Thank you all for the time and knowledge you have shared.


Plenty of people do that. I'd say the only possible thing that could go wrong is if at night it got the walls of your garage hot and then infrared goggles could sense the heat at night, if there are helicopters that do that sort of shit near you. So proper insulation would prevent that.


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## Illumination (Sep 13, 2010)

grnbutr said:


> I have a question and since there are so many ppl on this post that seam to really know there shit and since Mr. Riddleme has so much to offer in knowledge I feel this is the best place to get a relpy so here goes.
> 
> I live in pacific NW and have a grow in garage and am just geting my sprouts out of the ground. I was thinking of runing lights at night to keep the temps up as its getting cold at nite 50s, anyone know why I should'nt do this it's a legal grow?
> 
> Thank you all for the time and knowledge you have shared.


Go for it ...it is what I do in flower 9 pm -8:30 am as it helps with temps and many other ways as in less electric cost for not having to heat or cool as much or at all...unless you are doing a big grow, dealing, or alot of people know I wouldn't worry about the tech...rats are what get people busted...plus you said it was a legal grow so definitely go for it IMHHO

Namaste'


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 13, 2010)

I had and have some stuff Daniel, it's got to be the cal or mag. the jacks website says for growing tomatoes to add epsom salt for mag. 

My goddess plant is a bit touchy about cal and I don't think the jacks has any, since I've started supplementing it, no problems on the set that is about 4 weeks behind. Caught the Riddleme Mangos just in time. Look at that journal. Same stuff.

Hit it with the cal-mag+ brother and you will be fine, IMO


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## riddleme (Sep 13, 2010)

damn my peeps are given good advice, looks like you guys don't need me anymore


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## Danielsgb (Sep 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> damn my peeps are given good advice, looks like you guys don't need me anymore


RM3, if you're building an *Army*, it needs a General.  It would have to be you.
I leeched it with 5 gal. of water. To give it Cal/Mag, what would you recommend? I have Hydrated Lime I use for my soil mix. It doesn't have directions for this though. A tea with it would work right? I have Epsom Salt in case that would help. So yea, we still need you.
Daniels


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 13, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> RM3, if you're building an *Army*, it needs a General.  It would have to be you.
> I leeched it with 5 gal. of water. To give it Cal/Mag, what would you recommend? I have Hydrated Lime I use for my soil mix. It doesn't have directions for this though. A tea with it would work right? I have Epsom Salt in case that would help. So yea, we still need you.
> Daniels


The last thing you want to do is use hydrated lime in your soil. Its nothing like dolomitic lime, or calcitic lime. Hydrated lime is very alkaline, and will raise your soil ph up into the 9 or higher easily if over applied. Its not an easy lime source to work with, so I would avoid ever using it.

I used it once before after reading someone say it was the same as dolomitic lime..Well it obviously wasn't, and the plant came to an immediate halt in growth, and was completely stunted. Ph was over 9 when checked. Thankfully a flushing and repotting into new soil did the trick, but I dont want to see you experience the same thing, nor anyone else.


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## Danielsgb (Sep 13, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> The last thing you want to do is use hydrated lime in your soil. Its nothing like dolomitic lime, or calcitic lime. Hydrated lime is very alkaline, and will raise your soil ph up into the 9 or higher easily if over applied. Its not an easy lime source to work with, so I would avoid ever using it.
> 
> I used it once before after reading someone say it was the same as dolomitic lime..Well it obviously wasn't, and the plant came to an immediate halt in growth, and was completely stunted. Ph was over 9 when checked. Thankfully a flushing and repotting into new soil did the trick, but I dont want to see you experience the same thing, nor anyone else.


This is the Garden Lime I have. It is dolomite. http://www.espoma.com/p_consumer/org_trad_overview.html
So is a tea of it good? Or sprinkle a bit on the soil ?

Your Avatar kills me BTW


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## riddleme (Sep 13, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> RM3, if you're building an *Army*, it needs a General.  It would have to be you.
> I leeched it with 5 gal. of water. To give it Cal/Mag, what would you recommend? I have Hydrated Lime I use for my soil mix. It doesn't have directions for this though. A tea with it would work right? I have Epsom Salt in case that would help. So yea, we still need you.
> Daniels


I would just add Epsom salt you could do the tea thing like I do (1 tablespoon to a pint of water, then 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of that to a gallon of water, I just mix it with ferts) or 1 teaspoon to a gallon of water once, I'm sure you saw me add 1/2 teaspoon (of the tea) in my last feeding as a preventative 

seems I remember you having your soil tested, did you test the water your using as well?

and Espoma Garden Lime is what I use


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 13, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> This is the Garden Lime I have. It is dolomite. http://www.espoma.com/p_consumer/org_trad_overview.html
> So is a tea of it good? Or sprinkle a bit on the soil ?
> 
> Your Avatar kills me BTW


Here is the MSDS of Espoma's Garden lime. Looks like you are just fine with it.

You can make a tea with it, but it really doesn't dissolve in water. But it would make for an easier time watering in I imagine.

Glad you like the avatar. I think thats how weed should always make me feel hehe.


Oh, on a side note. I want to thank everyone that has given me rep. You guys have given me more love here in a few days than I have ever gotten in my grow journal. Granted, its full of failures, and I dont think I deserve much rep for it , but at least people can learn from my failures and misdiagnosis's.


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## ElectricPineapple (Sep 13, 2010)

ya, id say you need magnesium. i had that problem in late flowering with mine. every watering id give them mag, they would stop shedding leaves, but half a dozen leaves would fall before the next watering sometimes. makes me think i might of had something wrong with my soil, or they were eating the mag up. who knows ha


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## Illumination (Sep 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> damn my peeps are given good advice, looks like you guys don't need me anymore


BS we want and need you bro...

Namaste'


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## ElectricPineapple (Sep 13, 2010)

no we still need you Riddle. that just shows how good of a teacher you are, that your students, have now become the teachers hahaha


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## riddleme (Sep 13, 2010)

Ok hope everyone knows I was joking  not going anywhere (ok going to RMH's tomorrow to smell that goddess bitch) but you know what I mean and as the teach I am truely proud to see that shit

on a side note there will be no mid week update as my bitches have started flowering and I'm waitin till the weekend to share, but oh my they are looking good


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## rastadred22 (Sep 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Ok hope everyone knows I was joking  not going anywhere (ok going to RMH's tomorrow to smell that goddess bitch) but you know what I mean and as the teach I am truely proud to see that shit
> 
> on a side note there will be no mid week update as my bitches have started flowering and I'm waitin till the weekend to share, but oh my they are looking good


cant wait to see that


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## riddleme (Sep 13, 2010)

Hey I just ordered another 400 watt CMH (same one I have now) so next grow gonna be 800 watts


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 13, 2010)

heeee heee

I told you so, L.O.L. !!!


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## Illumination (Sep 13, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> heeee heee
> 
> I told you so, L.O.L. !!!


DITTO!!

Namaste'


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## gumball (Sep 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Hey I just ordered another 400 watt CMH (same one I have now) so next grow gonna be 800 watts


 
i knew by the photos those girls needed more light. i too have been waiting for this!!! now you need to do a vert tube and stadium setup like bigman!!


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## riddleme (Sep 14, 2010)

no the girls do not need more light and I am gonna finish these 4 with the one light, looking for the gram per watt mark, would be cheating to add a second light now 

the reason for the second light is that there will be more plants in the next grow, as I am expanding the garden, will have 10 instead of 4 and even that breaks my 100 watt per plant rule so we'll see???


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## gumball (Sep 14, 2010)

I mean the lower canopy is now shaded off a lot more since your girls are 3-4' around! I kno your candy canning helped with that, but only until they all grow back up, or their shoots do one.


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## riddleme (Sep 14, 2010)

You have to remember that this grow is about verifying the research, and I am the one that wrote the ditty on shade leaves being more productive for the plant. and actually there are only about 20% of the leaves totally shaded 

So much has already been verified ie: the sunshine #4 being amended with calcined clay, has worked out very well, I will be using this medium from now on as I am very happy with it 

Plus this is phase one in the breeding project, I will be seeding all of the lower buds


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## gumball (Sep 14, 2010)

How far in to flower will you seed?


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## riddleme (Sep 14, 2010)

depends on when Udo drops his load  he is making lots of balls so looking foward to lots of polen  and I am very happy with how healthy and vigorous he is


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## bigman4270 (Sep 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Hey I just ordered another 400 watt CMH (same one I have now) so next grow gonna be 800 watts


Damn it, ya beat me to the punch. Already have the new light fund going. Should be able to buy it sometime next month if things go the way I hope they do.

Can't wait to see that grow!

Peace

Big


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## cowboylogic (Sep 14, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> The last thing you want to do is use hydrated lime in your soil. Its nothing like dolomitic lime, or calcitic lime. Hydrated lime is very alkaline, and will raise your soil ph up into the 9 or higher easily if over applied. Its not an easy lime source to work with, so I would avoid ever using it.
> 
> I used it once before after reading someone say it was the same as dolomitic lime..Well it obviously wasn't, and the plant came to an immediate halt in growth, and was completely stunted. Ph was over 9 when checked. Thankfully a flushing and repotting into new soil did the trick, but I dont want to see you experience the same thing, nor anyone else.


 
Not sure if I can poke this out on my phone but gonna try. Dave is right on. Hydrated lime is what us farmers use. Not to be used in container plants. We spread in the fall or early spring while there is still snow on the ground, at least 90 days be planting. Used improperly it will roast a plant faster than you can imagine.

EDIT: nice win by your Chiefs Riddle. Savor it while you can.


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## sguardians2 (Sep 14, 2010)

Hey riddleme, How 'bout them CHIEFS!

OH YEAH!


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## riddleme (Sep 14, 2010)

GO CHIEFS!


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## maniacal420 (Sep 14, 2010)

What's up Riddleme, Question for you: can you clone an auto- flower plant?


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## riddleme (Sep 14, 2010)

maniacal420 said:


> What's up Riddleme, Question for you: can you clone an auto- flower plant?


most any plant can be cloned, I have even cloned trees


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## Delux83 (Sep 14, 2010)

haha my first clone was a tree and i didnt even do it on purpose. only thing i could find long enough to tie up my first grow was brances on a tree outside cut em off and tied my plants up with it, and it the branches rooted and started to grow. lol was in the middle of winter so there were no leafs or anything on the braches then when i went to harvest and pull the sticks out hear a rip thought was the MJ plant but was the branch roots


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## ElectricPineapple (Sep 14, 2010)

haha thats awesome.


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## beaver heater (Sep 15, 2010)

Hey Riddleme your garden is looking great! I am jealous. I am growing in a small cab, 24" w x 15" d x 36" t. I am using a gang of cfl's right now, but I would like to switch to a 200 or maybe 250w CMH. I have been looking for a small balast to fire a bulb like that and I am not having much luck. I also will need a really small reflector to fit inside the cab and still allow for good air movement. The only reflector that I found that is small enough if that sun systems 150w hps, but has the ballast built into the unit. I would prefer a reflector w/ remote ballast if possible. Does anyone know where I could get those items?


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## Illumination (Sep 15, 2010)

beaver heater said:


> Hey Riddleme your garden is looking great! I am jealous. I am growing in a small cab, 24" w x 15" d x 36" t. I am using a gang of cfl's right now, but I would like to switch to a 200 or maybe 250w CMH. I have been looking for a small balast to fire a bulb like that and I am not having much luck. I also will need a really small reflector to fit inside the cab and still allow for good air movement. The only reflector that I found that is small enough if that sun systems 150w hps, but has the ballast built into the unit. I would prefer a reflector w/ remote ballast if possible. Does anyone know where I could get those items?




Here is the 250 which I would recommend over the 150 as it will also run hps bulb as well as it is a retrofit designed for the hps ballasts. The 150 will require a pulse start and more expensive ballast. Here's a great deal...

http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=47994

And for the bulb...

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm

They are offering a free philips hps bulb with the purchase of a cmh bulb.

Hope that helps...

Namaste'


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## bobhamm (Sep 15, 2010)

any 250 watt HPS ballast(s50) will fire a 250 watt cmh bulb, I dont think there are 200 watt, next size down is 150 watt cmh which needs a m142/m102 pulse start metal halide ballast.


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## Danielsgb (Sep 15, 2010)

beaver heater said:


> Hey Riddleme your garden is looking great! I am jealous. I am growing in a small cab, 24" w x 15" d x 36" t. I am using a gang of cfl's right now, but I would like to switch to a 200 or maybe 250w CMH. I have been looking for a small balast to fire a bulb like that and I am not having much luck. I also will need a really small reflector to fit inside the cab and still allow for good air movement. The only reflector that I found that is small enough if that sun systems 150w hps, but has the ballast built into the unit. I would prefer a reflector w/ remote ballast if possible. Does anyone know where I could get those items?


Not sure where to get the remote ballast, but I make my own instead. Gumball and I both have them in a PC. I use the 150W in my Fridge grow chamber too. Do you do DIY stuff? A remote ballast isn't too hard to make. I'd say the 150W would be good for 2.5 sq. ft. All CMH under the 250W Don't use the HPS. They use a Pulse Start Metal Halide. If you need help let me know. I'm sure Gumball would help too. Ballast kit for the 150W is around $50. Fitting stuff in small cabinets can be hard. 
Daniels


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## bobhamm (Sep 15, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Here is the 250 which I would recommend over the 150 as it will also run hps bulb as well as it is a retrofit designed for the hps ballasts. The 150 will require a pulse start and more expensive ballast. Here's a great deal...
> 
> http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=47994
> beat me to it  , that is a good deal and that reflector will fit in your box, I kinda wish they sold that reflector seperately... only avail as a pkg deal


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## bobhamm (Sep 15, 2010)

I have a 150 watt cmh in a 16x20x32" cab and it is more than enough light


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## beaver heater (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks for the fast replies guys. I like the package that illumination linked, 117 bucks for everything i need except for the cmh bulb. 

Daniels, ya am a DIY'er. I am a contractor, so I am a pretty handy guy. I might still consider the 150w over the 250w. I like the idea of more light, but would a 250 be too much light in such a little space? Right now I have 241 actual watts of cfl in there. I guess the only way to really know is to get a light intensity meter.

I would like to make a decision soon, because I am only going to veg for 1 more week and then its flower time.


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## Danielsgb (Sep 15, 2010)

beaver heater said:


> Thanks for the fast replies guys. I like the kit package that illumination linked, 117 bucks for everything i need except for the cmh bulb.
> 
> Daniels, ya am a DIY'er. I am a contractor, so I am a pretty handy guy. I might still consider the 150w over the 250w. I like the idea of more light, but would a 250 be too much light in such a little space? Right now I have 241 actual watts of cfl in there. I guess the only way to really know is to get a light intensity meter.
> 
> I would like to make a decision soon, because I am only going to veg for 1 more week and then its flower time.


I'm not sure of the temp on a 250W vs. the 150W. Either way you'll love the CMH. Here's the one I make.
http://speedyseedz.com/forum/showthread.php?885-DIY-Remote-Ballast-and-Timer
Daniels


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## Illumination (Sep 15, 2010)

beaver heater said:


> Thanks for the fast replies guys. I like the package that illumination linked, 117 bucks for everything i need except for the cmh bulb.
> 
> Daniels, ya am a DIY'er. I am a contractor, so I am a pretty handy guy. I might still consider the 150w over the 250w. I like the idea of more light, but would a 250 be too much light in such a little space? Right now I have 241 actual watts of cfl in there. I guess the only way to really know is to get a light intensity meter.
> 
> I would like to make a decision soon, because I am only going to veg for 1 more week and then its flower time.



Check this out:

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/349293-myth-busters-s-light.html

As you can see the 250 watt will not be too much...hope it helps

Namaste'


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## gumball (Sep 15, 2010)

I also posted some good links and info in the CMH group. Let us know if you need more help.


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## gumball (Sep 15, 2010)

The 250 won't be too much light for your space really, but the heat may be too much if it is not vented well. CMH are suppose to be cooler, but not a lot. I think if you can do a remote ballast, and cooltube it well, the 250 may work. Its a hard call.


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## stonesour (Sep 15, 2010)

Hey riddleme, just stoppin by to check out your grow. I will definatly be watching it...


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## Danielsgb (Sep 15, 2010)

gumball said:


> I also posted some good links and info in the CMH group. Let us know if you need more help.





gumball said:


> The 250 won't be too much light for your space really, but the heat may be too much if it is not vented well. CMH are suppose to be cooler, but not a lot. I think if you can do a remote ballast, and cooltube it well, the 250 may work. Its a hard call.


I knew you'd chip in. It's the heat that made me think 150W. It *is* a hard call.
Daniels


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## beaver heater (Sep 15, 2010)

gumball said:


> The 250 won't be too much light for your space really, but the heat may be too much if it is not vented well. CMH are suppose to be cooler, but not a lot. I think if you can do a remote ballast, and cooltube it well, the 250 may work. Its a hard call.


I like the idea of using the 250 as well. I won't know about the heat though until I buy it so that kind of sucks. Right now I have 7 cfls in there: 1 65w, 2 42w, & 4 23w. I know cfls don't put off much heat, but when you have a bunch they do add a noticeable amount of heat.

I have a s&p 125 inline fan for exhaust and a passive intake. The fan has a high and low setting, 149/197 cfm. I have a phresh carbon scrubber that calls for a 150cfm fan max. So hopefully i can keep it cool in there with the 250w, w/ the fan on low so I do not exceed the filters recommended cfm.

It stays at 75 degrees right now with the current setup. I guess the only way to find out if the 250 will work is to give it a shot.


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## gumball (Sep 15, 2010)

I don't think the 250 will push it too far past 85f. I went from 104 watts of CFL in a PC to a 100 watt CMH with ballast inside the case. I think the most I have been at was 10 degrees above ambient, so about 87f. I have made some adjustments and it now runs 82-84. I know this is different, but at least it will give you an idea.


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## beaver heater (Sep 15, 2010)

Most likely going with the 250. I will let you guys know how it works out when I get it up and running!


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## bobhamm (Sep 15, 2010)

beaver heater said:


> I like the idea of using the 250 as well. I won't know about the heat though until I buy it so that kind of sucks. Right now I have 7 cfls in there: 1 65w, 2 42w, & 4 23w. I know cfls don't put off much heat, but when you have a bunch they do add a noticeable amount of heat.
> 
> I have a s&p 125 inline fan for exhaust and a passive intake. The fan has a high and low setting, 149/197 cfm. I have a phresh carbon scrubber that calls for a 150cfm fan max. So hopefully i can keep it cool in there with the 250w, w/ the fan on low so I do not exceed the filters recommended cfm.
> 
> It stays at 75 degrees right now with the current setup. I guess the only way to find out if the 250 will work is to give it a shot.


I have a td100 that keeps my 24x24x60" cab reasonably cool(mid 80s 2 feet above canopy) with a diy carbon filter so that should be plenty to keep your cab cool, however remember that if you use a cooltube or any glass it will stop the UVB which is one of the niceties of CMH bulbs, but you would still retain the full spectrum of visible light which is its main plus


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## riddleme (Sep 15, 2010)

stonesour said:


> Hey riddleme, just stoppin by to check out your grow. I will definatly be watching it...


welcome, glad to have ya!


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## Illumination (Sep 15, 2010)

beaver heater said:


> I like the idea of using the 250 as well. I won't know about the heat though until I buy it so that kind of sucks. Right now I have 7 cfls in there: 1 65w, 2 42w, & 4 23w. I know cfls don't put off much heat, but when you have a bunch they do add a noticeable amount of heat.
> 
> I have a s&p 125 inline fan for exhaust and a passive intake. The fan has a high and low setting, 149/197 cfm. I have a phresh carbon scrubber that calls for a 150cfm fan max. So hopefully i can keep it cool in there with the 250w, w/ the fan on low so I do not exceed the filters recommended cfm.
> 
> It stays at 75 degrees right now with the current setup. I guess the only way to find out if the 250 will work is to give it a shot.


Definitely wanna use cool tube or a bake a round (ol' DIY Dapper Dan style) with as much air flow through it, or sucking the air from the top with air inlet from the bottom should take care of heat as the cmh the heat is directed 95% upwards if I recall correctly and the 250 htg setup looks like a decent small adjustable reflector...My two cents for what it is worth..

Namaste'


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## Illumination (Sep 15, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> I have a td100 that keeps my 24x24x60" cab reasonably cool(mid 80s 2 feet above canopy) with a diy carbon filter so that should be plenty to keep your cab cool, however remember that if you use a cooltube or any glass it will stop the UVB which is one of the niceties of CMH bulbs, but you would still retain the full spectrum of visible light which is its main plus


Depends on which cooltube or glass used...some will allow almost 60% of the uvb through...But I would prefer open fixtures as well...just remember if it is on and a drop of liquid hits it chances are the glass outer bulb may crack or break so extreme care will be needed in such a small confined space

Namaste'


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## Comando (Sep 16, 2010)

Yea RME....put some damn flower pics up already...haha.... I had a question but forgot it...(tested one of my girls that is a week out SUPER STONEY) yea cheifs were looking DAMN good, those mother fuckers got some wheels on em cus nobody was catchin them...I had to read the make it rain thread just for a brush up...O i recall now.. Since you say when you make it rain, it puts the plants to sleep and then when they wake up they are in Turbo wick mode....Do you water in the morining ( before lights go on) and let them wake up to the light going on??? Holler back homie...Sub'd and +rep cus i RE-read all your shit its so damn helpful...TO ALL NOOBS...EASY ON THE NUTES


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## Comando (Sep 16, 2010)

O yea and Props to Illumination for starting the Poll to Make RME a grow GOD>hahaha you should post that on here...word


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

Comando said:


> Yea RME....put some damn flower pics up already...haha.... I had a question but forgot it...(tested one of my girls that is a week out SUPER STONEY) yea cheifs were looking DAMN good, those mother fuckers got some wheels on em cus nobody was catchin them...I had to read the make it rain thread just for a brush up...O i recall now.. Since you say when you make it rain, it puts the plants to sleep and then when they wake up they are in Turbo wick mode....Do you water in the morining ( before lights go on) and let them wake up to the light going on??? Holler back homie...Sub'd and +rep cus i RE-read all your shit its so damn helpful...TO ALL NOOBS...EASY ON THE NUTES


I make it rain about an hour after the lights come on


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## pkp134 (Sep 16, 2010)

RME do you use your let it rain technique on seedlings as well? I am trying it right now I live in a very hot climate where we have evap. coolers that suck and my temps get up to 87 sometimes... I have the skill but I need some luck getting these seeds germinated....


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## Illumination (Sep 16, 2010)

Comando said:


> O yea and Props to Illumination for starting the Poll to Make RME a grow GOD>hahaha you should post that on here...word


https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/365563-riddlme-deserves-elite-membership-powers-16.html

Here's a way^^ for us to show our appreciation for all we have learned from Riddleme....

Go there and vote and express your gratitude to this guy who has taught us and devotes so much time to our benefit

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

pkp134 said:


> RME do you use your let it rain technique on seedlings as well? I am trying it right now I live in a very hot climate where we have evap. coolers that suck and my temps get up to 87 sometimes... I have the skill but I need some luck getting these seeds germinated....


No, I nurture seedlings


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## pkp134 (Sep 16, 2010)

well I have only done it once, and it was the initial watering from putting the seed from paper towel in soil.. I used a small pot so it's not like I hit it with a gallon I actually measured to 3.5 tablespoons per watering and then just flusehed it with 10.5 tbs for first watering, I can just take my humidome off completely and it will dry up quick.. I am having some really frustratimg germination problems with the temp changes. help me master... I am trying to do big bang right now I want to SOG her sooooo bad!!


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## Dr. Nuggett (Sep 16, 2010)

I have always germinated seeds just 1 way and never had any problem. I don't use the paper towel method or any of the other methods normally used. I only germinate in most soil by poking a hole about 3/8'' deep drop in the seed and spit on it. I then cover the hole. I am not saying this will work for everyone but it has always worked for me.


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

pkp134 said:


> well I have only done it once, and it was the initial watering from putting the seed from paper towel in soil.. I used a small pot so it's not like I hit it with a gallon I actually measured to 3.5 tablespoons per watering and then just flusehed it with 10.5 tbs for first watering, I can just take my humidome off completely and it will dry up quick.. I am having some really frustratimg germination problems with the temp changes. help me master... I am trying to do big bang right now I want to SOG her sooooo bad!!


begining of this thread I explained how I do seedlings, talked about the importance of the temp and humidity not sure how to help because not sure of the description of your problem? is it that the seeds are not sprouting from the soil? in what and how did you plant em?


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## pkp134 (Sep 16, 2010)

my problem is temperature changes from living in the dessert where we have 90 degree days and 63 degree nights, and all I have is a swamp cooler that kind of leaves bare to the outdoor temperatures. I definitely read your thread and I tried your method, but with coco coir tablets, I waited for my seeds to drop, and put them in the coco coir just like you like to go straight from shot glass in to you medium so did I. but I personally think that the is little mass to each pellet it gave much more shock to the seedlings. I went through a white rhino and a super lemon skunk. Out of frustration I went back to what I already was used too... I soak paper towels for a few hours, and then drain them out and then get them wet again, and fold them up in a sandwhich bag and then put my seeds in the bag ontop of the towel.. I then wait for it to sprout a 1/4 inch root then put it in soil.... I went real simple for germination but Im def going to do Super Soil for when I transpant. Right now i hav Uni-Grow organic balanced ph soil, and I personally think I am having luck,,, I reallyu think I messed up with your method cause I had a fan blowing in may veg cab, and it cooled the rootball down por something, whatever I failed. Next time I will you method but with the pellets in a pot... But I did make it rain on my seedling, and I really am seeing a difference, in just one day it poked though 3/8 of soil, and I can even see the tap root straight and strong pushing though: ) to early to tell but I'm hoping... I was talking to illumination about how raining so early could be like winter run-off soaking the ground and thus jumpstarting the seeds to sprout... ? just a athought?> thanks rme


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## rastadred22 (Sep 16, 2010)

ight so heres the pics riddle...couldnt really get a good pic of the main cola, due to lighting, to show u the amber trichs but i got some of the lower smaller buds at a close distance u can see the cloudy trichs..but yea here u go 

and yea i have a def. im battlin right now just gave her another feeding today so i will see tomorro how she is...

wat u think?
View attachment 1160245View attachment 1160244View attachment 1160249View attachment 1160247View attachment 1160250View attachment 1160248View attachment 1160246View attachment 1160243


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## rastadred22 (Sep 16, 2010)

also a hurricane igor is headed right for us this weekend...so im expecting huge damages including power outages...u think my tree will be ok? what do u suggest i should do? i also have a topped tree thats in vegge right now as well as a small clone thats pretty far into flower...and no a generator is not an option:S


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## Comando (Sep 16, 2010)

Say ...I see that you are using Jacks Professional instead of Classic....I can see why...From what I have learned, a 2-1-3 is a good flower ratio....however I saw they had a 15-5-15 Ca/Mg which isn't bad but it also has mag and cal...and ALL the Micro and macro nutes...Also their 17-5-19 poinsetta feed seems to fit the bill...I was wondering what the Jacks Pro feed costs? and did you have to order it or does a store carry it near you? Hope these aren't dumb questions. Holler
http://www.jacksprofessional.com/products.pdf


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> ight so heres the pics riddle...couldnt really get a good pic of the main cola, due to lighting, to show u the amber trichs but i got some of the lower smaller buds at a close distance u can see the cloudy trichs..but yea here u go
> 
> and yea i have a def. im battlin right now just gave her another feeding today so i will see tomorro how she is...
> 
> wat u think?


2 more weeks is what I would say, let's see if anybody else chimes in?


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## Illumination (Sep 16, 2010)

I concur...pistils haven't drawn up yet...IMHHO

Namaste'


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## rastadred22 (Sep 16, 2010)

thanks riddle



Illumination said:


> I concur...pistils haven't drawn up yet...IMHHO
> 
> Namaste'


whats your guess?


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## Illumination (Sep 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> thanks riddle
> 
> 
> 
> whats your guess?



I concur with RM3 2 weeks and stated why above

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

Comando said:


> Say ...I see that you are using Jacks Professional instead of Classic....I can see why...From what I have learned, a 2-1-3 is a good flower ratio....however I saw they had a 15-5-15 Ca/Mg which isn't bad but it also has mag and cal...and ALL the Micro and macro nutes...Also their 17-5-19 poinsetta feed seems to fit the bill...I was wondering what the Jacks Pro feed costs? and did you have to order it or does a store carry it near you? Hope these aren't dumb questions. Holler
> http://www.jacksprofessional.com/products.pdf


Got mine locally it was $28 for a 25lb bag (will last a very long time) mine is the Peat Lite Special 20-10-20 and I am adding DynaGro ProtK which is a 0-0-3


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> also a hurricane igor is headed right for us this weekend...so im expecting huge damages including power outages...u think my tree will be ok? what do u suggest i should do? i also have a topped tree thats in vegge right now as well as a small clone thats pretty far into flower...and no a generator is not an option:S


hell this is the second time, someone else had a similar problem a few weeks ago a bunch of us told him to stake it down, you could look back thru the threads for it


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

On a lighter note, everyone ready to freak, this weekends update pics are gonna be killer, I have counted 60 budsites in my canopy and my oh my they are looking good, these bitches are going insane! (wanted to say loco, but that was the last grow)


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## rastadred22 (Sep 16, 2010)

cant wait to see some buds!


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## rastadred22 (Sep 16, 2010)

hey riddle i cant find the post i looked bac for a while and couldnt find u kno what page?


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> hey riddle i cant find the post i looked bac for a while and couldnt find u kno what page?


No sorry, I don't remember? 

But I hope they get this ad thing fixed sucks having it in the first post on every page instead of up top

and I would have posted a pic but my puter crashed so I hooked up another one to surf and this one does not have the graphics program to resize the pics (and take out the endif stuff)


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## rastadred22 (Sep 16, 2010)

ight man no problem, but could u drop me a few words of advice?


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> ight man no problem, but could u drop me a few words of advice?


found it go here
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/347914-balls-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-70.html#post4584173


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## rastadred22 (Sep 16, 2010)

yea but my trees arent outside my problem would b the power goin out


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> yea but my trees arent outside my problem would b the power goin out


they can be ok for up to 3 days in the dark, not anything I would do on purpose but I know they can, and you said no generator so I really don't have any other ideas???


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## rastadred22 (Sep 16, 2010)

could u possibly stress it out to much? some say they hermie with too much stress


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> could u possibly stress it out to much? some say they hermie with too much stress


yeah, I don't buy that one much, I stressed my last grow to the limit and gave her light leaks and she did not hermie, IMO the whole hermie thing is folks not wantin to blame themselves or bad genetics


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## donni101 (Sep 16, 2010)

You hear so much about hermies my first time I had 4 that were all girls showing pistils one had just a few and seemed way behind so I threw it away and I know I didnt see bananas. I figured this cant be 4/4 ladies first time.


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## legalizeitcanada (Sep 16, 2010)

hey riddle whada ya mean by the "endif stuff"?


riddleme said:


> No sorry, I don't remember?
> 
> But I hope they get this ad thing fixed sucks having it in the first post on every page instead of up top
> 
> and I would have posted a pic but my puter crashed so I hooked up another one to surf and this one does not have the graphics program to resize the pics (and take out the endif stuff)


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## Comando (Sep 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> yeah, I don't buy that one much, I stressed my last grow to the limit and gave her light leaks and she did not hermie, IMO the whole hermie thing is folks not wantin to blame themselves or bad genetics


 I can show you Pics of Clones that were all girlies and Now i have seeds on them.... One (or both) hermied and polinated themselves...Im not lying i will take pics to prove it...and to clarify...go to clones...both were girls....both started flowering...never ever have been in contact with males....plants underwent some medium sized stress...end of grow and I have a handfull of seeds???? pretty sure my girls hermied... What causes that????


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## riddleme (Sep 17, 2010)

legalizeitcanada said:


> hey riddle whada ya mean by the "endif stuff"?


Cellphones for sure and most of the newer digital cameras record the GPS cords of where the pic was taken, and embed it in the pic file data, some of em include the camera serial # as well (why I never register my electronics  I use a program called graphics workshop to crop and resize as it replaces the endif info with an ad proclaming pic was processed using graphics workshop, (my GW program is also unregistered)


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## riddleme (Sep 17, 2010)

Comando said:


> I can show you Pics of Clones that were all girlies and Now i have seeds on them.... One (or both) hermied and polinated themselves...Im not lying i will take pics to prove it...and to clarify...go to clones...both were girls....both started flowering...never ever have been in contact with males....plants underwent some medium sized stress...end of grow and I have a handfull of seeds???? pretty sure my girls hermied... What causes that????


I am not saying hermies don't happen, what I am saying is that stress is not the primary cause, I wrote a ditty explaining hermies, it's in my nuggets, plus most folks don't consider that polen can travel miles blowing in the wind or on the legs of little insects


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## stonesour (Sep 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I am not saying hermies don't happen, what I am saying is that stress is not the primary cause, I wrote a ditty explaining hermies, it's in my nuggets, plus most folks don't consider that polen can travel miles blowing in the wind or on the legs of little insects


I agree but stress does up the chances dont they? I know a chick that grows and we get the same seeds from the same outlet. Her grow is very unorganized and unkept to say the least and her plants herm 70% of the time where as mine hardly ever do. Her tent has light leaks, she tops, LST, supercrops, and beats those plants up all the time.


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## riddleme (Sep 17, 2010)

stonesour said:


> I agree but stress does up the chances dont they? I know a chick that grows and we get the same seeds from the same outlet. Her grow is very unorganized and unkept to say the least and her plants herm 70% of the time where as mine hardly ever do. Her tent has light leaks, she tops, LST, supercrops, and beats those plants up all the time.


I would say more enviromental stress over training, if the plant thinks it's dying it will try to save itself, which is what natural hermieing is


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 17, 2010)

Well, I thought Id share my experience with hermies. On my latest crop, I had a clone of a seedplant go hermie around 35 days into flower, yet the seedplant mother never did hermie and went 45 days. The clone had accidentally been placed under 12/12 when cut(timer screwup). I realized this clone had been under it for about 3 weeks, and was beginning to flower. So I switched it back to veg, and thought I caught it in time, but it continued to flower for 3 more weeks or so. Maybe 4, but then a that time it started to reveg, and had the single bladed leaves everywhere. I was running out of room in the tent, and had to place it into the flower tent. To flower again, while it is currently revegging. Needless to say the plant was switched back and forth between flowering and veg alot. 

When she finally kicked into flower again, she retained single bladed leaves on throughout. Then she hermied at day 35 or so. 

I think that is probably one level of stress that could cause a plant to go hermie. 

Btw, Im really high, so I hope all that made sense.


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 17, 2010)

I think its genetics in combination with environmental stress. Just like some plants are prone to PM or other problems. I think its the '3 strikes rule'.

1st we force flower them. Not natural, high stress
#2 we don't give them any pollen, thats what the pistils are searching for, higher stress can't complete life cycle

Add to that a problem with light cycle, drying out or other harsh conditions and if the plant has it in there genetically, you will bring it out. Like RM3 said, it's trying to survive, so it self pollinates, due to the stress of...no pollen. I think all plants have it in them, just easier to get to trigger with some strains than others. I also think if you try to take a plant to long in flowering, maybe to get all amber trichs or something, it may become inevitable, due to the survival factor.

Just my .02


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## gumball (Sep 17, 2010)

i read a thread where a guy did just that dave, he put it in flower until it flowered, then every night before the lights went out he pulled it out and let it sit under light for an hour, then dark, then light. he did that for the plants entire flower cycle, to force it to seed. he called them S1 (or femmed) seeds, but the quick search i did was unclear of this as a legitimate process for creating fem seeds. it is still interesting enough if one wanted to save a strain that was stable. they could perform this and possibly get some seeds.


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## riddleme (Sep 17, 2010)

ok here are the pics I took last night (I'll get more tomorrow for the update) so you can see the very first bud shots


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## Magnificient (Sep 17, 2010)

grnbutr said:


> Hi new to this and i just got done reading this from page one so I may be wrong on this but the guy from burmuda keeps saying hes buying a dig ballast for cmh I thought it was mag ballast for cmh I ask cause I am sold on this and was going to buy a hps for my flo room but not now? BTW This has been one of the best things Ive read so far for a bigginer thanks to all.




There's a digital ballast made specificially for cmh bulbs. All the older magnetic ballasts will work if they're for 400 watt hps.


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## pkp134 (Sep 17, 2010)

Now I may have missed this, and I know you dont use a air cooled hood but do you think using an ait cooled hood will change the effectiveness of the cmh bulb? all I can think of is maybe the uv rays would get effected but I don't know...


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## riddleme (Sep 17, 2010)

pkp134 said:


> Now I may have missed this, and I know you dont use a air cooled hood but do you think using an ait cooled hood will change the effectiveness of the cmh bulb? all I can think of is maybe the uv rays would get effected but I don't know...


any glass will definately affect the UVB from the CMH bulb, why I don't use it


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## Comando (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> any glass will definately affect the UVB from the CMH bulb, why I don't use it


 do you think glass will effect a HPS bulb????


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 18, 2010)

Comando said:


> do you think glass will effect a HPS bulb????


Someone on ICMAG used a light meter to test how much light loss there was when using the glass pane in air cooled reflectors. It amounted to 3% in his tests. No clue what the degree of accuracy his light meter is though.


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## JRTokin (Sep 18, 2010)

Thats ok though if you consider that you would be able to get the light much closer. Surely the proximity of the light would make up for the loss caused by the glass?


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

JRTokin said:


> Thats ok though if you consider that you would be able to get the light much closer. Surely the proximity of the light would make up for the loss caused by the glass?


not talkin light here talkin UVB, most hood glass filters it, there are options with less loss but still there is loss


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

I was thinkin I'd just skip the update this week since no one wants to see bud porn???


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## bobhamm (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I was thinkin I'd just skip the update this week since no one wants to see bud porn???


 yeah take the day off it's not like anyone actually reads this thread anyway, ya big maroon


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> yeah take the day off it's not like anyone actually reads this thread anyway, ya big maroon


well I posted 1st bud porn yesterday and seems no one noticed??? so I figured there is no need for an update even though things have drastically changed


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## RastaMonsta (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> ok here are the pics I took last night (I'll get more tomorrow for the update) so you can see the very first bud shots


nice healthy looking plants. you use supercroping method?


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

RastaMonsta said:


> nice healthy looking plants. you use supercroping method?


Yes supercropped em, but like to call it candy canning  because of how they curl back up


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## Comando (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> well I posted 1st bud porn yesterday and seems no one noticed??? so I figured there is no need for an update even though things have drastically changed


 doooooood.....come on......I have been checking RIU every 20 mins waiting for your update....holy shit is like 6 30 in the morning and someone just texted me ?????


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## Comando (Sep 18, 2010)

so both my plants have seeds....here is the cool thing, one I already harvested was more sative and pretty high yeilding...It didnt have a ton of seeds, I have pullded off about 30. The other is a Blueberry Kush indica....VERY FROSTY...in fact I recently had a spider mite problem and have found none that made it past the Trichome barier but there were plenty of fan leaves, however this Plant was low yeilding...Now one or the other cross breed with the other and itself so that means...one of those sets of seeds is a new strain>>>>YEAH>>>it should be a High yeilding frosty indica sativa blend with great defense against busgs....does this sound right??


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## Danielsgb (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I was thinkin I'd just skip the update this week since no one wants to see bud porn???


My bad, too busy last night to see that preview. That was like the peek of a nipple. Where's our Porn. General?


----------



## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

Ok so the bitches took over the garden, they went nuts and grew and grew, I held back water till they drooped to slow down the growth  didn't work, I candy caned (supercropped) the shit out of em, didn't work, I had one bud burn cause it got to close to the light. Could not raise the lights any more so I had to take out the drip drain rack to lower the plants, this will make watering them a bitch but hey everyone should have this problem right, I mean can't argue with 60+ bud sites on 4 plants (and that is only the canopy)

Without the rack and fans circulating CO2 I had to add a floor fan, that is raised by the screen bolts, it is a 4 inch AC fan so moves a bit more air.

Also the new light got here so I said WTF and installed it, really wanted to finish with just the one but these bitches got so big, I am happy to spread em out a bit more and have the coverage needed to do this so basically now there are 2 plants under each light. I should note for everyone that this raised my temps ALOT went up to 87, so I am very happy that fall is finally here, yesterday's high was 91 and today we expect a high of 73 (it's about time) so not seeing this as a problem as things will start to chill.

They got rained on and fed on thursday, same nute mix as last time, gonna top dress some more dolomite as a preventative today also gonna start buildin my fermentation chamber, was gonna buy one of those Hov-a-bators but decided they are to small so gonna build one based on the same concept, I will take pics and post a ditty on how I do it

Also gonna top some of the clones today, you'll see the first ones in are growin like weeds and I need the last ones in to catch up for the next go round  still got at least 6 more weeks and gonna keep em smaller this time, no more wild jungle gardens  Plus there will be 8 instead of 4.

You can see the trichs in some of the pics, considering this is only the end of week 2 of flowering, I am very impressed with the CMH bulbs UVB 

And one last note lowering them this way is a good thing as far as the IR heater experiment is concerned cause now the canopy is where it should be in relation to the heater, was gonna be a bitch to move it 

Enjoy the pics as always


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## kingofqueen (Sep 18, 2010)

Bring on the bud porn !

As always RM very nice ! So your pushing 800w s now with the second light?


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> Bring on the bud porn !
> 
> As always RM very nice ! So your pushing 800w s now with the second light?


yeppers this is now an 800 watt grow


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

Hard to actually see the trichs in the resized pics so I cropped a couple of them so you could get a better view


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## kingofqueen (Sep 18, 2010)

I hear ya about the weather what a nice day today had my lowest temp yet with the light on 73 degrees and 60 % humidity love it !


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## bobhamm (Sep 18, 2010)

excellent as always, how tall are they now?


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> excellent as always, how tall are they now?


42 inches from the top of the soil and this after supercropping over a foot, the bent over candy cane branches are 14 to 16 inches long from the bend point


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## mlad (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> They got rained on and fed on thursday, same nute mix as last time


 Really sweet grow man. I have a question about what you said above. I thought the let it rain method meant that you rain and then wait until it dries up, then feed the nutes. What you said here seems like you rain and feed on the same day?

Sorry for the noob question, but I'm going to try raining on my next grow so I need to be clear on the process. Thanks!


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

mlad said:


> Really sweet grow man. I have a question about what you said above. I thought the let it rain method meant that you rain and then wait until it dries up, then feed the nutes. What you said here seems like you rain and feed on the same day?
> 
> Sorry for the noob question, but I'm going to try raining on my next grow so I need to be clear on the process. Thanks!


I am adding nutes to the last gallon of rain because I am in a soilless medium that has no nutes, I am in the process of actually feedin em now and Kat is showing signs of a defiency (or a lock out) why I'm feedin now instead of tomorrow (normally takes 3 days after rain) this is an adjustment I have made simply because they are not in soil and it is my first time using the sunshine mix #4 so kinda learnin myself here


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

Udo's balls are startin to hang, won't be long now


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Udo's balls are startin to hang, won't be long now


Dude thats' hilarious.


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## maniacal420 (Sep 18, 2010)

How long will pollen keep?


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

maniacal420 said:


> How long will pollen keep?


properly stored up to a year, but I'll be done with it within 6 months 

I put him in a trash bag, just in case


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## miteubhi? (Sep 18, 2010)

Just seeing that much potential pollen makes me nervous.

Nice grow boss, keep it green.


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

miteubhi? said:


> Just seeing that much potential pollen makes me nervous.
> 
> Nice grow boss, keep it green.


He's upstairs, in a closet, and now in a 50 gallon construction grade trash bag, yeah the light is in the bag with him 

it's a breedin project, so gotta have pollen

Plus I wanted to post pics so new growers can see what they look like when they start to hang, most never get that far


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## Illumination (Sep 18, 2010)

Comando said:


> doooooood.....come on......I have been checking RIU every 20 mins waiting for your update....holy shit is like 6 30 in the morning and someone just texted me ?????


*ROTFLMFAO!*

Namaste'


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## Illumination (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Ok so the bitches took over the garden, they went nuts and grew and grew, I held back water till they drooped to slow down the growth  didn't work, I candy caned (supercropped) the shit out of em, didn't work, I had one bud burn cause it got to close to the light. Could not raise the lights any more so I had to take out the drip drain rack to lower the plants, this will make watering them a bitch but hey everyone should have this problem right, I mean can't argue with 60+ bud sites on 4 plants (and that is only the canopy)
> 
> Without the rack and fans circulating CO2 I had to add a floor fan, that is raised by the screen bolts, it is a 4 inch AC fan so moves a bit more air.
> 
> ...


Props! All is looking awesome my friend....yep looks like you are finally becoming a grower!!

That was a good laugh this morning....Thanx

Namaste"


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## lime73 (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> He's upstairs, in a closet, and now in a 50 gallon construction grade trash bag, yeah the light is in the bag with him
> 
> it's a breedin project, so gotta have pollen
> 
> Plus I wanted to post pics so new growers can see what they look like when they start to hang, most never get that far


Hey Riddleme Can I take out your garbage for you... j/k.

Love the male pics too...can't wait to see them open up!
You will be taking pics of that xxx show right?

Took me 2 weeks but....
I have finally finished all the threads and there was so much information on those threads. I see things differently now! Thank you!

Thanks for the Guidance much Respect for you my friend!

Good Job on the girls and the male...Nice to see many pics as you went along. You really know how to put it all together. Sum of all Parts! Good Job!!! 

I like how you are open to experiments. Nothing better than to see it through your own experiments. You pay attention to them...and they are showing you what they can do, Like they are showing off...lol.

You have a very good understanding of what makes them tick...

I like how you guide people in the right direction. I see so many that have fallen to the Myths/Hype and You have tried...I've seen it in the threads,and you try to show them that, It is a plant... so Grow It!

Well thanks for all that you have contributed and you deserve the Elite Membership!!! I voted... Yes!!! Hopefully they see you as a Very reputable member of RIU...as most here do.

And I can hardly wait to see your newest crop finish...so turn up the Volume on those bitches and show us what it is all about! 

I love Mj and everything that it has to offer. Keep em Green!


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## rastadred22 (Sep 18, 2010)

lookin good! where did ur grow room go? looks like u lost most of it.. its all small now...lol they look great though love how they are all pointed up happy as can be! i still dont have that many trichs on my leaves and shes 50days into flower lol!


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## xshooterx (Sep 18, 2010)

Hey Yall!

Been tryin to keep up with this great thread, but haven't had a chance to post for a bit.

Excellent, excellent work Riddleme! You are a very good teacher. Those shots of Udo are priceless for a noob like me. Never really saw a complete pic of a male in his splendor, lol.

I have a question about supercropping. In your photos I can only see one or two branches that are bent. Didn't you SC pretty much all the branches? Maybe they are just being hidden by the leaves? A few branches look like they returned to their almost normal straightness after being bent, is that right? Does SC also create more bud sights where none would normally be, as well as opening up the plant body to receive more light down inside it?

Got to thinking about the EXIF data thing... thinking it was more of a mobile phone camera issue than a "stand alone" camera. Here is what Wikopedia has and below that is a link to Lifehacker, one of my favorite websites, with some info on striping EXIF data.

Thanks, of course to Riddle, but also to almost everyone who has posted here for creating a kind of one stop shop for all I need to know about growing our favorite weed.

Geolocation
See also: Geotagging

The Exif format has standard tags for location information. Currently, only very few cameras, such as the LEICA V-LUX 20, Panasonic LUMIX TZ-10, Samsung CL65 (also known as Samsung ST1000), Ricoh Caplio 500SE, Nikon Coolpix P6000 or some higher-end mobile phones, have a built-in GPS receiver and store the location information in the Exif header when the picture is taken. For other cameras, such as Nikon D300, Nikon D90, or FinePix S5 Pro, a separate GPS receiver that fits into the flash connector or hot shoe is available. Recorded GPS data can also be added to any digital photograph on a computer, either by correlating the time stamps of the photographs with a GPS record from a hand-held GPS receiver or manually using a map or mapping software. The process of adding geographic information to a photograph is known as geocoding. Photo sharing communities like Panoramio, locr or Flickr equally allow their users to upload geocoded pictures or to add geolocation information online.

Most of Nokia's Nseries mobile phones (such as the N95) are equipped with a GPS receiver, and using Location Tagger[1], a piece of software from Nokia Beta Labs, all captured images are tagged with corresponding GPS coordinates when GPS signal is available. The second generation of iPhone (known as the iPhone 3G) by Apple Inc. is also equipped with a GPS receiver, and uses the receiver to geotag photographs taken with the device. Subsequent generations (the iPhone 3GS and the iPhone 4) also support this feature. The first generation iPhone is not equipped with GPS, and uses a service provided by Skyhook to triangulate and approximate the location at which the picture was taken using nearby cellular phone towers and WiFi hot-spot signal strength data. The Skyhook service provides approximate GPS location information which is then added to the Exif data associated with the picture. Also mobile phones with the Android operating system as well as BlackBerry smartphones with a camera and builtin GPS or Bluetooth GPS addons can geotag images with the included camera application.



http://lifehacker.com/comment/24787821/


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## xshooterx (Sep 18, 2010)

Got another question. I'm in the process of building out a veg cabinet (30cf) inside my grow room. I was thinking that I needed to seal the cabinet not only light tight but also air sealed so as to create a negative pressure for good air flow. The problem for me with the sealed cab thing is, well, I ain't no Bob Villa not to mention Norm Abram, so making doors for this thing that will air seal may be a big PITA. So, if I just use black out curtains for the doors and two or three computer case fans to help vent the heat, will that be adequate? Maybe a small oscillating fan for added circulation?


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## pkp134 (Sep 18, 2010)

I have recently made a vegging cabinet as well, I have one fan directly beneath my t5, with passive vents real low, and a fan blowing around for circulation, the fans should be enough if your using floros. I used weatherstripping for the cracks of the doors, and the same stuff the put on the bottoms of the doors to bloxk wind I used as well. Not the best in the world, but as long as you are blowing out more than what is availiable you will have negative pressure so it shouldnt be that hard with all those fans.. I would deffininitely have two fans blowing in from the bottom and 2 blowing out on the top... just my oppinion... does depend on the size it is awell... I bought an unassembled cabinet at lows for 35 bucks. super easy to make, just needed alot of duct tape to seal in where I had to mod to get the light in. If you find a cabinet with the right hinge it actually seals light proof, It is not a barrel hinge, but more like an arm hinge you would see on a door, the ones that close slowly. they had one when I wnt and it was 80 bucks, and super pre-cut and pre drilled to put together...


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## xshooterx (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks PKP for the reply. Yeah, I'm using the T5 4ft., 8 bulb fixture for veg. This is going to be a built in (rough built lol) cab. Gotta make the doors. Was just going to use 1/2in plywood. I already have some spare hinges, but they are not the arm (pneumatic?) type you mentioned. Would be nice and easy to use a black out curtain instead.


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

As always thanks everyone, we're trying to keep it all together 

as for the supercropping, yes I bent all the main colas over a few of them I bent twice and 2 of them I bent 3 times, that was why I finally had to move things around, it does open up the canopy (if you pay attention and plan your bend) and it does make a lot of bud sites and I kinda like it, gonna play some more with the next batch as I now have a few ideas 

as for the cab thing, I have never built one but I am about to build a fermentation chamber, just went and rounded up everything (cost almost $300) but I'm still cheaper than buying a bunch of hovabators and this cab will do the same thing once I get it built, which will take awhile 

was just at walmart, they have put all the fans on sale as they are now puttin out heaters, so if you need fans??? also got a digital temp/humidity gauge for $8 and thermostat for $20, the worst was the cab and heaters, cab was $69 and the lizard heaters were $32 each for 2 60 watters, kinda breakin it down now while it is freesh in my mind, so when I start the build a DIY fermentation chamber ditty I won't forget 

PS the lizard heaters were not available at walmart had to go to a lizard store, prolly why they cost so much lol


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Thanks PKP for the reply. Yeah, I'm using the T5 4ft., 8 bulb fixture for veg. This is going to be a built in (rough built lol) cab. Gotta make the doors. Was just going to use 1/2in plywood. I already have some spare hinges, but they are not the arm (pneumatic?) type you mentioned. Would be nice and easy to use a black out curtain instead.


RMH can tell you how to use a black on one side white on the other poly curtain with zippers as his whole room is divided off with em


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## Danielsgb (Sep 18, 2010)

Could you take a look at my post on my build journal. https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/326553-medicinal-refridgerator-24.html#post4657959
I could use some advice and don't want to 'jack your thread. Nice balls ya got hangn' there BTW.
Daniels


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## xshooterx (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> RMH can tell you how to use a black on one side white on the other poly curtain with zippers as his whole room is divided off with em


 Great idea! That sounds perfect. I'll see if he chimes in.


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Great idea! That sounds perfect. I'll see if he chimes in.


or shoot him a PM?

hey what is up??? I got more rep for the balls than the buds, something about that just is not right LOL


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## dudeoflife (Sep 18, 2010)

Nice grow, RM3!

This thread is 30 miles long & I'm lazy- are you using 2 400w CMH's rt now?

And picture #18 pwns. I would venture to say your biggest buds will be in that area. If you could hold that angle in your next pics for the weeks to come, you could make a sweet time-lapse gif or video. Whaddya think?


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## dudeoflife (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> or shoot him a PM?
> 
> hey what is up??? I got more rep for the balls than the buds, something about that just is not right LOL


Rofl. This site is brimming with so many ironies.


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

dudeoflife said:


> Nice grow, RM3!
> 
> This thread is 30 miles long & I'm lazy- are you using 2 400w CMH's rt now?
> 
> And picture #18 pwns. I would venture to say your biggest buds will be in that area. If you could hold that angle in your next pics for the weeks to come, you could make a sweet time-lapse gif or video. Whaddya think?


Yes have 2 400's now, ordered it figured what the hell might as well use it, bitches are out of control lol

no idea what pic #18 your talking about? ones I posted today are all #'d in the 300's


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

dudeoflife said:


> Rofl. This site is brimming with so many ironies.


ya got that right


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## Danielsgb (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> hey what is up??? I got more rep for the balls than the buds, something about that just is not right LOL


That is odd. Kinda makes me wonder. By bud porn I was meaning those pretty beginning flowers, not some Balls. Glad I gotta see both.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Yes have 2 400's now, ordered it figured what the hell might as well use it, bitches are out of control lol
> 
> no idea what pic #18 your talking about? ones I posted today are all #'d in the 300's


I figured it out I usually do not post that many pics lol so it was #18 out of 23 lol anyway I got 4 colas like that one those are the NL#1's


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## donni101 (Sep 18, 2010)

good job. i was waiting for the bud porn. Michigan State wins in ot. oh sorry. Cant wait to see in a few weeks.


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## dudeoflife (Sep 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I figured it out I usually do not post that many pics lol so it was #18 out of 23 lol anyway I got 4 colas like that one those are the NL#1's


Nl#1's? Niiiiiiiice. Bought a pack-- can't remember the breeder--- off Heaven's Stairway back when Emery was a free man. 

One of my favorite strains, as well as most NL permutations. I like how hardy they are- almost foolproof! And the yield is decent, thanks to that Afghani influence- nice, tight, green,yellow, & gold buds. If you have never grown them before (not sure 'cuz I've just met you and you have like a million pages on here ) you'll see why they were one of the first widely used strains in commercial grows in the 90's! I kept a NL#1 mother for a year or so before I concentrated on the Apollo 11/C99 varieties. 

Which reminds me- I never had a strain that cloned so easily, too, as NL#1. I'm not shitting you-- had this one cutting that sprouted a 2 inch leg after only 4 days in the dome. Average was 5-7 days. Freakin' Balls!


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## maniacal420 (Sep 19, 2010)

riddleme said:


> properly stored up to a year, but I'll be done with it within 6 months
> 
> I put him in a trash bag, just in case


Thanks, I was under the impression it only lasted a couple days. Store in a film canister and then what?


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## riddleme (Sep 19, 2010)

maniacal420 said:


> Thanks, I was under the impression it only lasted a couple days. Store in a film canister and then what?


freeze it, prolly longer if you cryovac it


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## maniacal420 (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks Riddle. I posted an update of my grow and would really appreciate any input you could give me. Having a little issue. Thanks again. I ask because I've seen your work and will try your methods next grow.


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## lime73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Thought this looked pretty cool....What do you think? She is my First one 8weeks.

View attachment 1166174

Oh yah one Question...How come I can't add pics to my journal? It is asking for a URL? Can't I just upload attachments?


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## rastadred22 (Sep 20, 2010)

how long can that polen last for


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## Illumination (Sep 20, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> how long can that polen last for





riddleme said:


> properly stored up to a year, but I'll be done with it within 6 months
> 
> I put him in a trash bag, just in case


 


riddleme said:


> freeze it, prolly longer if you cryovac it




That answer your question? Lol...

Namaste'


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## rastadred22 (Sep 20, 2010)

lofl! um high srry didnt even rread it lol!


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## rastadred22 (Sep 20, 2010)

hey u guys i askd riddle in a private message but i guess he not on..so imma ask u guys...ok my lights are set to 6am to 6pm...hurricane igor hit us last night and im just gettin my power bac at 6pm...would i be alright to turn the light on for 7pm till 7am>? will anything bad happen?


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## Illumination (Sep 20, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> hey u guys i askd riddle in a private message but i guess he not on..so imma ask u guys...ok my lights are set to 6am to 6pm...hurricane igor hit us last night and im just gettin my power bac at 6pm...would i be alright to turn the light on for 7pm till 7am>? will anything bad happen?


I do not see a problem as long as they have been in the dark all this time IMHHO..

Namaste'


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## rastadred22 (Sep 20, 2010)

ight man thanks alot u think i shuld wait for more oppinions or are u pretty set on that


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## REALSTYLES (Sep 20, 2010)

Help there's a monster in my room


View attachment 1167360View attachment 1167361View attachment 1167362






Blue Dream, Grand Daddy and Purple Kush under 1000 watt light hoping too yield big

Indoor monster plant

What do you use for your grow?


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## Illumination (Sep 20, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> ight man thanks alot u think i shuld wait for more oppinions or are u pretty set on that


you could get other opinions if you desire...Myself, I of course would just do it... i actually did when I flipped 'em... 36 hours dark as I wanted lights on at night as well as a couple of other reasons...

Hope it helps....

Namaste'


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## Illumination (Sep 20, 2010)

REALSTYLES said:


> Help there's a monster in my room
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BAD F&^KING ASS ! Props to you!!

Namaste'


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## rastadred22 (Sep 20, 2010)

thanks man i put them on an hour ago...and my dear! realstyles! thats crazy pluss rep!


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## gumball (Sep 20, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> hey u guys i askd riddle in a private message but i guess he not on..so imma ask u guys...ok my lights are set to 6am to 6pm...hurricane igor hit us last night and im just gettin my power bac at 6pm...would i be alright to turn the light on for 7pm till 7am>? will anything bad happen?


no, the loss of power has already stressed them, this will help relieve that stress.


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## rastadred22 (Sep 20, 2010)

gumball said:


> no, the loss of power has already stressed them, this will help relieve that stress.


thanks man


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## maniacal420 (Sep 20, 2010)

REALSTYLES said:


> Help there's a monster in my room
> 
> 
> Is that thing a re-veg or str8 grow? That stalk is MONSTROUS!!


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## Illumination (Sep 20, 2010)

Saints 25 49'ers 22 ...PHEW!!

2-0

*GEAUX SAINTS GEAUX*


Namaste'


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## oldecrowe (Sep 20, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Saints 25 49'ers 22 ...PHEW!!
> 
> 2-0
> 
> ...


Yeahyouright, breaux.


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## pkp134 (Sep 20, 2010)

RM3 with your experiences w/ CMH how much is the temperature change between using hps and cmh ? Im just trying to determine if I want a cooled hood or a regular one...


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## gumball (Sep 21, 2010)

pkp134 said:


> RM3 with your experiences w/ CMH how much is the temperature change between using hps and cmh ? Im just trying to determine if I want a cooled hood or a regular one...


riddle hasnt used HPS before, at least not recently that he has spoken of. look up danielsgb "A Medicinal Refrigerator". he went from HPS to CMH. has a few of both. and can probably give you a pretty good idea. i went from 104 watts of CFL to 100 watts of CMH and like 10-15 watts for the ballast, and my temps raised only a +/- 5 degrees. if you have more than 3-4 sq feet, you may be ok to go open face.


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## bobhamm (Sep 21, 2010)

I just switched a couple of weeks ago from a 400w hps to a 400 watt ccmh, yes its cooler but not by more than a couple of degrees in the cab in total I'd say, however, I can get closer to the plants with the cmh
as for a cooled hood, remember glass will cut out most of your UVB which helps with trich/resin production


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## gumball (Sep 21, 2010)

he could put up a glass/plexi heat shield for while it is running. when he waters or tends to his plants with the lights on he could pull the heat shield out and let the plants bask in UV. that is whay i will start to do now that i know the heat shield blocks it.


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## bobhamm (Sep 21, 2010)

I will say, for those of you who are sensitive to UV, I guesss I am one, I was trying to install a fan yesterday and after a few minutes the skin on one of my arms started to pink up... I swear it was only 10 minutes max....


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## gumball (Sep 21, 2010)

yeah these lights are weird. riddle should be all kinds of f'ed up though, he has 2 open faced!!


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## bobhamm (Sep 21, 2010)

well my arms were only like 6 inches under the lamp I should say, and like all light, it drops off inverse square...but caution should be taken.


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## DaveCoulier (Sep 21, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> I will say, for those of you who are sensitive to UV, I guesss I am one, I was trying to install a fan yesterday and after a few minutes the skin on one of my arms started to pink up... I swear it was only 10 minutes max....


I dont think it has anything to do with sensitivity. Others have reported skin damage when working under their CMH. These bulbs should be treated just like a UVB bulb, imo, and caution should be taken for all if working underneath them.


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## pkp134 (Sep 21, 2010)

well I gues if you took tha glass off a cooled hood, you could just use the hood as your opening to suck air up and out of the tent with, and prob achieve close to the same results as the hood with the glass in it?


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## Comando (Sep 22, 2010)

TO ALL.....I was looking at Jacks Petunia feed ....wondering if I can use that during flower???? From what I have seen in some research, our plants use more N and K and way less P during flower. The Petunia feed is a 20-6-22 (3.2-1-3.4) which sounds just about perfect AND it has extra magnesium...(how many of you get a mag deficency...im raising my hand) I think it sounds like a good test ...Since your in somewhat of aggreance with RME, that less phosphorus is better (since your using a 20-10-20) I would LOVE to hear your opinion...


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## gumball (Sep 22, 2010)

i just switched to the dyna-gro foliage pro 9-3-6 myself, after looking at Jacks and Earth Juice and many more. i determined that because the dyna-gro line contains all macro and micro nutes. so the need to add micro nutes shouldnt be needed to get through a grow. i am going to use their Pro-Tekt as well, and i am going to try a whole grow with just these 2 products. i have some FF Tiger Bloom if they need something different, but dont plan to use it. thats my .02


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## riddleme (Sep 22, 2010)

Comando said:


> TO ALL.....I was looking at Jacks Petunia feed ....wondering if I can use that during flower???? From what I have seen in some research, our plants use more N and K and way less P during flower. The Petunia feed is a 20-6-22 (3.2-1-3.4) which sounds just about perfect AND it has extra magnesium...(how many of you get a mag deficency...im raising my hand) I think it sounds like a good test ...Since your in somewhat of aggreance with RME, that less phosphorus is better (since your using a 20-10-20) I would LOVE to hear your opinion...


lot of folks have tried various Jack's mixes, I say go for it


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## beaver heater (Sep 22, 2010)

I just ordered my 250w light setup and a 250w cmh yesterday. Now, I must impatiently wait. My lights will be down to 12/12 in 7 days, so the setup should be here just in time. I am stoked!


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## Illumination (Sep 22, 2010)

gumball said:


> i just switched to the dyna-gro foliage pro 9-3-6 myself, after looking at Jacks and Earth Juice and many more. i determined that because the dyna-gro line contains all macro and micro nutes. so the need to add micro nutes shouldnt be needed to get through a grow. i am going to use their Pro-Tekt as well, and i am going to try a whole grow with just these 2 products. i have some FF Tiger Bloom if they need something different, but dont plan to use it. thats my .02


I highly recommend Dyna's Mag Pro as well

Namaste'


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## Delux83 (Sep 22, 2010)

looking good riddle, really cant wait to see how buds look later under that CMH its almost a good thing i cant grow right now cuz i prob would of already updated my system and i want to see urs b4 i do. whats the total cost of 800w of cmh?


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## WWShadow (Sep 22, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> looking good riddle, really cant wait to see how buds look later under that CMH its almost a good thing i cant grow right now cuz i prob would of already updated my system and i want to see urs b4 i do. whats the total cost of 800w of cmh?


Here ya go Deluxe83 I found the links for ya


riddleme said:


> my bulb
> http://www.growlightexpress.com/ceramic-metal-halide-bulbs-9/mastercolor-ceramic-metal-halide-400-watt-79.html
> 
> my ballast
> ...


so $524.00 unless they give a discount on shipping for multiple items


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## gumball (Sep 22, 2010)

Illumination said:


> I highly recommend Dyna's Mag Pro as well
> 
> Namaste'


yeah, i thought of using that too, but i am gonna stick with this for now and see how it works. i am low on funds, and the wife was laid off, so i must watch my spending. it sucks but it is what it is. thanks illumination!


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## rastadred22 (Sep 22, 2010)

hey riddle i think i be ight to harvest next watering? my magnifying glass isnt very strong and i can see some amber trichs and the more i look the more i see red...but then again they look cloudy aswell idk its hard to tell but u think it be ight if i harvest right after next watering/flush?


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## riddleme (Sep 22, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> hey riddle i think i be ight to harvest next watering? my magnifying glass isnt very strong and i can see some amber trichs and the more i look the more i see red...but then again they look cloudy aswell idk its hard to tell but u think it be ight if i harvest right after next watering/flush?


I wait till the pistils recede, before I ever even look at the trichs but, and I have said this many times to each his own, you gotta figure out where you like em to be for the high you like, if you have never done it then do a staggered harvest bit at a time and test them (be sure to label them so you know)


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## rastadred22 (Sep 22, 2010)

the hairs have started to recede i have done it but i wouldnt have been feeding for the past 2weeks and things would def. not b as green as it has been and i usually have something a bit stronger than the scope im using...its just hard to tell by the thrichs but they appear pretty close to 50-50


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## rastadred22 (Sep 22, 2010)

idk maybe its just me being impatient trying to find a way to harvest asap lol! i let her go for a week or so...check out my thread and lemme kno wha u think...itll b greatly appreciated!


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## Illumination (Sep 22, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> idk maybe its just me being impatient trying to find a way to harvest asap lol! i let her go for a week or so...check out my thread and lemme kno wha u think...itll b greatly appreciated!


IMHHO at least 10-14 days...if you can take a real close pic go here:

https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/328642-want-know-if-your-plants.html

Hope it helps

Namaste'


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## rastadred22 (Sep 22, 2010)

thanx yea i askdd fdd like a week ago and said 2weeks just gettin itchy to smoke my shit lol


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## Comando (Sep 23, 2010)

Im smokin my shit from my very first plant....doesnt taste that great but i get so fuckin high off it...hahahaha...super head high..it was mostly sativa......OMG im stoned now...


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## riddleme (Sep 23, 2010)

got my new toys for the music room today, MCM put em on sale so I got the pair for $350, (it helps that where I work is a MCM distributor so I get an additional discount)

They are active (which means they have their own amp/mixer) each one has a 140 watt amp with a 3 input mixer balanced and unbalanced ins&outs, when I turn the drum machine on these babies shake the freakin foundation 

The guitar is a BC Rich Warlock and the amp is a Line6 SpiderJam, so there is around 2 grand in these pics  (not counting my battery charging station) 

Yeah I know it has nothing to do with MJ but it has everything to do with what I do when I get medicated  and I wanted to share

Anyway this is just the pre-bud porn show


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## riddleme (Sep 23, 2010)

These Bitches are INSANE 

Here we are 2 days into week 3 of flower (flipped em on a tuesday) and there are f-ing buds everywhere, I'm not complainin! and wait till ya see the bud crop closeups (next post)


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## riddleme (Sep 23, 2010)

sorry gotta keep saying that lol, 2 days into week 3 of flowering and these bitches are full of sugar gonna be a killer harvest 

Enjoy the porn!


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## xshooterx (Sep 23, 2010)

Gorgeous just gorgeous... mmmmmmmm good.


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## Illumination (Sep 23, 2010)

riddleme said:


> sorry gotta keep saying that lol, 2 days into week 3 of flowering and these bitches are full of sugar gonna be a killer harvest
> 
> Enjoy the porn!



*HOLY TRICHES BATMAN!*

Can't wait to get my room and cmh's!!

Beautiful teach....

Namaste'


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## pkp134 (Sep 23, 2010)

Looks delish! thanks for sharing!


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## Comando (Sep 24, 2010)

Looks a little warm in there RME....If im not mistaken that Thermo said 87.....but it obviously looks like your doing just fine in there....


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## bigman4270 (Sep 24, 2010)

Lookin awesome teach, lookin awesome!


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## legalizeitcanada (Sep 24, 2010)

all i can say....as many others here it seems...is....WOW.....that bud looks soooo gooood! You definitely are the man with the master plan!


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## Illumination (Sep 24, 2010)

riddleme said:


> got my new toys for the music room today, MCM put em on sale so I got the pair for $350, (it helps that where I work is a MCM distributor so I get an additional discount)
> 
> They are active (which means they have their own amp/mixer) each one has a 140 watt amp with a 3 input mixer balanced and unbalanced ins&outs, when I turn the drum machine on these babies shake the freakin foundation
> 
> ...



Knew that was a warlock...Had the bass version as they were one of our sponsors....i need to go visit you one day!

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Sep 24, 2010)

Comando said:


> Looks a little warm in there RME....If im not mistaken that Thermo said 87.....but it obviously looks like your doing just fine in there....


yes adding the second CMH raised the temps 5 degrees, I have not had the IR heater on since adding the 2nd light, but if you look back in the thread you will see that one of the first IR experiments was to run the temp up to 91 where I determined that my garden had plenty of CO2 since there was no heat stress. But also note that is the canopy temp, just 2 feet away (on a shelf under the IR heater)a digital gauge reports the temp is 75 (showing a highest ever temp of 77)

we had 2 days in the last week where we set record high temps here in colorado, that seems to finally be cooling off with our extended forcast now saying 70's & 80's for the next week. So I am looking forward to resuming the IR experiments in the next few weeks


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## riddleme (Sep 24, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Knew that was a warlock...Had the bass version as they were one of our sponsors....i need to go visit you one day!
> 
> Namaste'


I thought you might appreciate that post


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## riddleme (Sep 24, 2010)

cause I have neglected the guest, we'll call her the purple headed step child. You see her canopy is almost a foot below the others, the NL #1 and Special have overgrown her, I took pics and circled the BigBud/PurpleErkle guest bud that is featured in the pics so you could see how hidden she actually is, but hey she is a frosty bitch as well even shadowed by the others 

and yes there will be crop closeups to follow


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## riddleme (Sep 24, 2010)

this is one frosty bitch, considering she is a sativa dom and will prolly take a bit longer to finish, I find myself looking forward to watching her (and smoking her) This is the guest strain that originated in Cali

Enjoy!


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## shnkrmn (Sep 24, 2010)

Umm, nice glands


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## Danielsgb (Sep 24, 2010)

Shame on you, neglecting a step child. Just cause she wasn't from *your* seed, she still deserves to work on her tan too.
Daniels


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## gumball (Sep 24, 2010)

well remember that stepchild tried to infect the entire family with mites!!


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## rastadred22 (Sep 24, 2010)

wow! riddle those bitches are gorgeous! theyve gotten alot taller too!! man those trichs are standing so tall they look like they goin grow legs and walk outa that room! very nice! def. dont disappoint!


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 24, 2010)

That first trich pic is killer. Nice job brother.


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## maniacal420 (Sep 24, 2010)

Looking great Riddlemaster. I thought I saw amps in the thread.Good growing and keep on rocking!


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## Comando (Sep 25, 2010)

I am VERY interested in the results of your IR tests.....Did you know there is 100 watt cmh bulbs...?? and they use the Medium (E26)base.... Im thinking that would be nice for Veg...but maybe CFL's would do just as good more effeciently? From what I gathered, the UVB light in cmh bulbs, increases Resin production in plants, which doesn't happen till flower cycle anyway....so is CHM worth it during Veg, if u dont veg and bloom under same light????


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## riddleme (Sep 25, 2010)

Comando said:


> I am VERY interested in the results of your IR tests.....Did you know there is 100 watt cmh bulbs...?? and they use the Medium (E26)base.... Im thinking that would be nice for Veg...but maybe CFL's would do just as good more effeciently? From what I gathered, the UVB light in cmh bulbs, increases Resin production in plants, which doesn't happen till flower cycle anyway....so is CHM worth it during Veg, if u dont veg and bloom under same light????


I will be sharing the IR experiment 
I am aware there are 100 watt CMH's
I am vegging under CFL's
CMH gives you faster veg growth, if that is something you want?


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## riddleme (Sep 25, 2010)

Not really much to add after the big bud porn update a few days ago, but I took a pic of my new make it rain watering station  it's makeshift and takes a lot longer (1 plant at a time) but it works.

Also your first view of the Riddleme Fermentaion Chamber, I will not be writing the step by step how to here as it has become a chapter in the book (gotta have a hook) but there are several of you that are DIY pro's so I think you could figure it out 

I will be doing the first test using a wet rag then in will go some buds to see how well this thing works, the idea being to slow the drying process way down and be able to actually control it while allowing the buds to ferment and cure,,,,,WHILE THEY ARE DRYING


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## bigman4270 (Sep 25, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Not really much to add after the big bud porn update a few days ago, but I took a pic of my new make it rain watering station  it's makeshift and takes a lot longer (1 plant at a time) but it works.
> 
> Also your first view of the Riddleme Fermentaion Chamber, I will not be writing the step by step how to here as it has become a chapter in the book (gotta have a hook) but there are several of you that are DIY pro's so I think you could figure it out
> 
> I will be doing the first test using a wet rag then in will go some buds to see how well this thing works, the idea being to slow the drying process way down and be able to actually control it while allowing the buds to ferment and cure,,,,,WHILE THEY ARE DRYING


Holy shit teach, that plant, uh tree is freaking huge.


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## riddleme (Sep 25, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> Holy shit teach, that plant, uh tree is freaking huge.


I told you they were out of control


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## bigman4270 (Sep 25, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I told you they were out of control


Do ya think their size is relevent to the pot size? I know all things are but given the same conditions in your 2 gal pots you are using now, do you expect the same growth rate?


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## riddleme (Sep 25, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> Do ya think their size is relevent to the pot size? I know all things are but given the same conditions in your 2 gal pots you are using now, do you expect the same growth rate?


Pot size definately affects how big they "can" get but also remember I made it rain from seedling (to show what happens) and I am not raining on the clones in the 2 gallon pots cause they have 6 more weeks before they get flipped and are already a foot tall (after being topped once)


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## Comando (Sep 25, 2010)

O MY GOD!!!!! RUN RIDDLE...Those Plants are gonna eat you ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH... hahaha...im stoned........dood my weed (that tastes like shit) gets me STUPID head high........... those plants are all like, "Feed me Semore'


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## riddleme (Sep 25, 2010)

Comando said:


> O MY GOD!!!!! RUN RIDDLE...Those Plants are gonna eat you ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH... hahaha...im stoned........dood my weed (that tastes like shit) gets me STUPID head high........... those plants are all like, "Feed me Semore'


no I'm stayin put cause thay are gonna get me high


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## SensiStan (Sep 26, 2010)

riddleme said:


> no I'm stayin put cause thay are gonna get me high


I expected no less of you Riddle  those plants are superb, sorry i havent been around to worship your growing skills but im here til the end now. This is where i come to drool after an evening of forum browsing and posting  

I bet ur having one hell of a time !


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## riddleme (Sep 26, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> I expected no less of you Riddle  those plants are superb, sorry i havent been around to worship your growing skills but im here til the end now. This is where i come to drool after an evening of forum browsing and posting
> 
> I bet ur having one hell of a time !


Yeppers, I am having fun for sure 

The preliminary test on the fermentation chamber went very well, I put a damp rag on the shelf, and temp and humidity were very easy to control, humidity raised 6 points at first, I was able to dial it down (which was the intent of this test) got a few tweaks to install and then we'll be testing on actual plants


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## SensiStan (Sep 26, 2010)

Gradually decreasing the moisture in the buds is the concept of normal curing too, its just normal curing (hanging ,drying, jarring ,hanging etc )is a more "rough" way sorta drying and redistributing moisture then drying again. i look forward to seeing some designs of your cabinet i like the ideal of a gradual dry and cure


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## xshooterx (Sep 26, 2010)

Heh Heh, more like chamber of heavenly delights! lol How long do you think a full drying/curing cycle will take?


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## riddleme (Sep 26, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Heh Heh, more like chamber of heavenly delights! lol How long do you think a full drying/curing cycle will take?


plan is to make take 3 weeks instead of one, it is designed to take advantage of natural composting and is based on the research I did into curing


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## riddleme (Sep 26, 2010)

Consider this the Sunday Pre-Game show 

I put the bic lighter next to the Purple Headed Step Childs Top Cola (which was hiding untill I rearranged things yesterday) because this is only week 3 of flower so I wanna keep an eye on this one 

and the rest are just some more porn for your enjoyment

After the extra work of making it rain yesterday I rearranged things to put the drain pans back in the garden, raised the step child so it is not buried under the "trees"


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## Danielsgb (Sep 26, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I put the bic lighter next to the Purple Headed Step Childs Top Cola (which was hiding untill I rearranged things yesterday) because this is only week 3 of flower so I wanna keep an eye on this one
> 
> and the rest are just some more porn for your enjoyment
> 
> After the extra work of making it rain yesterday I rearranged things to put the drain pans back in the garden, raised the step child so it is not buried under the "trees"


Like a Ho back from the Dr. with a clean bill of health. She can show her goods with her sisters. Looking great.
Daniels


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## rastadred22 (Sep 26, 2010)

lol @ d! yea man those things are lookin great! littered in trichs!


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## riddleme (Sep 26, 2010)

Got some before and after pics of the clones to share, there was no way these were gonna go another 6 weeks without getting out of control so they all got a haircut 

So various different topping locations will be played with in the next go round some topped at the 2nd and some at the 3rd nodes gonna let one go without topping, you will see it setting in a little peat pot (isn't she cute) and then again potted with a 13 watt cfl over her, gonna see if I can keep her small 

And of course now I got a bunch of clippings setting in cups of water while I decide what to do with em,, I know everyone should have that problem


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## riddleme (Sep 26, 2010)

So here I wanted to show how I have rearranged things, you can also see the clippings in the cups  A nice shot of the new rearranged canopy and then there are a few shots of one of Tilders main cola's cause I wanted to show how nicely they are filling in with buds  

You can also see I put the step child on a paint can to get her canopy level with the others, she is no longer overgrown 

And finally the Chiefs are stompin the 49er's, so it is a good day all around


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## riddleme (Sep 26, 2010)

I just got a call from one of my patients with a complaint, I gave him one of my clones last monday (it was a NL#1) he called to tell me it was growing to fast  and he was having to rearrange things (sounds familiar) LOL He told me I need to stop doing whatever it is I do to them 

Then I took the rearranged canopy shot and drew some circles for you so you can see where the cola's are in the canopy, The one in the foreground is the Tilders cola that I just shared pics of and the one circled in the back is the step child cola that I took the pic with the bic in, which also shows the paint can worked 

GO CHIEFS!


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## rastadred22 (Sep 26, 2010)

damn lol! wish i had the problems u two have! everythings lookin great the clones the budds everything i mean do u expect nething less lol


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## Illumination (Sep 26, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I just got a call from one of my patients with a complaint, I gave him one of my clones last monday (it was a NL#1) he called to tell me it was growing to fast  and he was having to rearrange things (sounds familiar) LOL He told me I need to stop doing whatever it is I do to them
> 
> Then I took the rearranged canopy shot and drew some circles for you so you can see where the cola's are in the canopy, The one in the foreground is the Tilders cola that I just shared pics of and the one circled in the back is the step child cola that I took the pic with the bic in, which also shows the paint can worked
> 
> GO CHIEFS!


Conngrats on the chiefs...Aints 2-1

But but damn sure can't play with u bout being a great grower as it is so evident that you are!!

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Sep 26, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Conngrats on the chiefs...Aints 2-1
> 
> But but damn sure can't play with u bout being a great grower as it is so evident that you are!!
> 
> Namaste'


Hey I was rootin for the Aints, they should have won, but better news is Denver & Oakland both lost 

yeah I'm a plant whisperer


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## RastaMonsta (Sep 27, 2010)

sup riddle. ive been reading on making it rain. i want to give this a shot. i just want to make sure im doing this properlly. 

ok so i gave my clones some of jacks all purpose food already. ive only fed once. how many times should i feed before making it rain? 2 feedings then rain?

also just to make sure. making it rain is a flush rite? im just flushing all the nutes with "rain water" rite?


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## riddleme (Sep 27, 2010)

RastaMonsta said:


> sup riddle. ive been reading on making it rain. i want to give this a shot. i just want to make sure im doing this properlly.
> 
> ok so i gave my clones some of jacks all purpose food already. ive only fed once. how many times should i feed before making it rain? 2 feedings then rain?
> 
> also just to make sure. making it rain is a flush rite? im just flushing all the nutes with "rain water" rite?


updated/better explanation of makin it rain here,,,,,
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/347914-balls-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-8.html#post4480637


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## RastaMonsta (Sep 27, 2010)

thanks for alwayz being helpful, if they didnt have this spread the rep shit i would give u all the rep.


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## riddleme (Sep 27, 2010)

So with test one I took two wash rags and wetted them now this was not totally scientific as I squeezed them one in each hand about the same, I hung one on a towel rack and put one in the chamber, the one on the towel rack dried in 2.5 hours, the one in the chamber dried in 8.5 hours so test one a success IMO as I was able to slow down the drying process 

Test 2 is actual buds, donated by a great friend and there is a good amount, and they are huge buds so this will be a good test  I have piled them to achieve a composting effect and am starting the temp at 72 (will have to play with it a bit to dial in the perfect temp/humidity combos) the humidity dropped 3 points once the heaters came on and is now at 39, ambient room temp outside the chamber is at 68 (I have the AC on) and now we see what happens???


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## rastadred22 (Sep 27, 2010)

nice cant wait to see how well that works!


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## whodatnation (Sep 28, 2010)

riddleme said:


> (will have to play with it a bit to dial in the perfect temp/humidity combos)


 I find that a high humidity and lower temp works best for me. So @ 60-65% and 60-65.F it takes my larger more dens buds atleast 10-15 days before I start to cure. I also leave a good portion of the stem on to help get a slow even distribution of moisture. Love your thread and all of the info you dish-out.... Thanks for taking the time to document all of your work for all to see. ^^^just my 2cents^^^ 
I'l def sub-up.


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## riddleme (Sep 28, 2010)

whodatnation said:


> I find that a high humidity and lower temp works best for me. So @ 60-65% and 60-65.F it takes my larger more dens buds atleast 10-15 days before I start to cure. I also leave a good portion of the stem on to help get a slow even distribution of moisture. Love your thread and all of the info you dish-out.... Thanks for taking the time to document all of your work for all to see. ^^^just my 2cents^^^
> I'l def sub-up.


Thank you and welcome aboard


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## riddleme (Sep 28, 2010)

The process has begun  humidity has gone up 10 points to 49% and I have raised the temp to 74


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 28, 2010)

Right on Riddleme, can't wait to taste those babies !


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## riddleme (Sep 28, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Right on Riddleme, can't wait to taste those babies !


yeah you need to come scare some crows in my garden


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## rastadred22 (Sep 28, 2010)

After having a discussion with riddleme about his post on fermentation...https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/316301-calling-all-noob-growers-41.html ...i asked if i can perform this during the 2-3day dark period right be4 i harvest... this hasnt been tested be4 so i said hey y not?!
The theory is that if you suffocate...rid the root system of oxygen it will eventually start to ferment...which is what we are accomplishing when jar curing.

So I filled a bucket with water and proceeded to dunk the tree, pot and all into the bucket of water making sure the water level was pretty much right where the soil and stalk meet.(Literraly 20mins after doing this the smell coming from my tree amplified smelling my room out with its sweet fuity smell!) i left my tree in the bucket during a 12hr light period, its last! 

When doing this the tree drinks up alooot of water! i mean in about 12hours the water level dropped about an inch and i had to top the water off. After keeping a close eye on the water level after the 2nd day it hadnt dropped much, this basically means that the process has begun ...

the smell after the second day had subsided alot but i gave my nuggz a squeeze they feel a bit more solid and the nuggz are starting to give off a different smell its almost completely different then be4...
So basically what this has proven is that the dark period has sped this process up alot! 

i will report bac in another day or two..i will be chopping in 2..


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## riddleme (Sep 28, 2010)

Here is what I can tell you after playing with the new toy all day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

YOU WANT ONE!!!

imagine a jar that you could burp with the touch of a button, imagine that the temp & humidity in the jar are dialed to perfection, imagine the best buds you ever tasted 

For those of you that have had a harvest, you know the drill you hang em, they get crispy, you put em in the jar and they get wet, cause the moisture in the middle gets pulled out by the jar,,,,,well that is what happened I put em in the chamber and they wetted up within hours (they were never hung) the humidity went up to 53%. Now I have it so I can change the fan speed via a rheostat (they are 12 volt fans and I can dial the voltage down to 4.4, basically a third of the speed) I started out with the fans set to lowest speed, when the humidity went to 53 I turned the temp up to 75 and the humidity came down to 49, I put my hand under the pile o bud and I could feel heat. So I turned the fans up to full speed, this was where it got fun, it created a vaccum in the chamber so much so it sucks the doors shut when you get em close to being closed and it pulled the humidity down to 43 within 20 minutes, then I slowed the fans back down and the humidity continued to drop (down to 37%) so I lowered the temp back to 72, it went slowly back up (took about 2 hours) to 39% then I turned the fans off and it is now at 44% ,,,,,playing with it has been a blast and it is so cool to have complete and total control over what they are doing  

Now after the humidity had been pulled down the outside edges of the buds started getting crispy, hence why I am letting it build up again. There are 3 pics 1st is when they went in last night, 2nd was this morning and 3rd was this afternoon after I turned the pile over, you can see that the leaves are wrapping around the buds (what I want em to do) and that they are already changing colors and the buds themselves are simply beautiful, this is gonna be one hell of a smoke report LOL

Enjoy as always


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## riddleme (Sep 28, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> After having a discussion with riddleme about his post on fermentation...https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/316301-calling-all-noob-growers-41.html ...i asked if i can perform this during the 2-3day dark period right be4 i harvest... this hasnt been tested be4 so i said hey y not?!
> The theory is that if you suffocate...rid the root system of oxygen it will eventually start to ferment...which is what we are accomplishing when jar curing.
> 
> So I filled a bucket with water and proceeded to dunk the tree, pot and all into the bucket of water making sure the water level was pretty much right where the soil and stalk meet.(Literraly 20mins after doing this the smell coming from my tree amplified smelling my room out with its sweet fuity smell!) i left my tree in the bucket during a 12hr light period, its last!
> ...


Thank you for doing this experiment and thank you for sharing


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## rastadred22 (Sep 28, 2010)

damn! does that mean u can successfully do dry and cure within a matter of hours or days with the same results as a 2week dry and a 2week cure?


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## riddleme (Sep 28, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> damn! does that mean u can successfully do dry and cure within a matter of hours or days with the same results as a 2week dry and a 2week cure?


don't know yet? hence my playing with it, but I want em to dry slowly, these borrowed buds were not drowned so not sure how long it will take but I can definately smell em curing  and there are no filters on the chamber (though it would be easy to add some) and it is not stinking up the house or even the room they are in, which is a very good thing so far


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## pkp134 (Sep 28, 2010)

rastarded how did the drowning turn out on the final product?


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## rastadred22 (Sep 28, 2010)

damn right i want one lol! thats wats up though...imagine a drowning and then two weeks in that


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## riddleme (Sep 28, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> damn right i want one lol! thats wats up though...imagine a drowning and then two weeks in that


exactly what I'll be doing in about 6 or 7 weeks


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## rastadred22 (Sep 28, 2010)

it hasnt bene chopped yet..it appears the fermentation has begun by the smell of the plant but riddle suggested a day or two more so they can run through the process even more so after i chop and dry ill try one with out a cure...ive dried a branch of the plant be4 the drowning and smoked it so i will compare


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## pkp134 (Sep 28, 2010)

rastarded how did drowning the plants help and what did it do for the end smoke?


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## rastadred22 (Sep 28, 2010)

read the post above


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## rastadred22 (Sep 28, 2010)

btw i take that bac my room def does still stink! i went to the store real qwik came bac and u can def. smell her looming in my closet!


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## Danielsgb (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm planning on trying that on with one of my two at 50 some days into flowering. One strain will take a week maybe 2 longer. I have to re-read it to make sure I have it down. 
BTW RiddleMe ah, Thanks, now I have a new DIY to add to the collection. Check out my build journal if you get time. My FrigiDare is getting into testing now.
Daniels


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## rastadred22 (Sep 28, 2010)

froom what ive experienced so far id say go for it


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## riddleme (Sep 28, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I'm planning on trying that on with one of my two at 50 some days into flowering. One strain will take a week maybe 2 longer. I have to re-read it to make sure I have it down.
> BTW RiddleMe ah, Thanks, now I have a new DIY to add to the collection. Check out my build journal if you get time. My FrigiDare is getting into testing now.
> Daniels


Which link is it?

and by the way there are a few of you that will get the instructions on how to build it via PM once that chapter of the book is done


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## Danielsgb (Sep 28, 2010)

Sorry, it's A Medicinal Refridgerator
I'll look forward to that PM.


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## Delux83 (Sep 29, 2010)

lol i look forward to the pm and reading the rough draft


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## riddleme (Sep 29, 2010)

This was one of those experiments I was looking forward to, the time I spent researching harvesting and curing was a lot longer than when I research most things as you could tell by the 4 part ditty I wrote on it and I knew it was going to be an adventure in learning for me. It has been really cool that others have taken the plunge with drowning their plants and all reports on that have been good as you all know, I am anxious to do it 

And building the fermentation chamber was a blast for me, going shopping for the supplies and slowly bringing it all together was fun, I like to design and create, it's in my blood  I took my time thinking I have several weeks to go and then knowing that my friend RMH was about to harvest I asked for a small donation to test things out as I have already told you. I do want to let you know that the pile of buds is actually pretty big, there are 5 main colas in there and to give you an idea that shelf is 25 inches wide X 18 inches deep ( I will throw a bic in the next set of pics to give you a better idea)

I took these pics this morning and instead of posting them I wrote a PM to RMH and asked him to go take a look at the trichs on the uncut goddess plants to see what the % of amber was, he answered back 10% ,,,after being in the chamber for a day and a half when I checked this morning I was seeing trichs at 70% amber, folks this damn thing works and you will see in the pics that they are pulling N from the leaves (as discussed in the ditty N is required for the chemical changes that take place during fermentation) the leaves are drying and changing colors and more of the buds are now exposed, you can see the nice purples that are coming out. So in a nutshell the buds are drying and curing at the same time (I think it will be even better with a drowning) and ripening and this may be the most important thing??? cause these were chopped 2 weeks early yet in less than 2 days they ripened right up as if they were done and ready, seriously you can practically watch the trichs change to amber

I WILL NEVER HANG DRY A PLANT EVER AGAIN 

this was one research effort that has paid off big time!

Enjoy the pics


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## rastadred22 (Sep 29, 2010)

now u need to make another one and ship it to bermuda! lol! i want one of those i cant wait for u to see the results im seeing from this drowning...btw do u think the speed in wich the drrowning process takes to occur is influenced by plant size as well?


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## riddleme (Sep 29, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> now u need to make another one and ship it to bermuda! lol! i want one of those i cant wait for u to see the results im seeing from this drowning...btw do u think the speed in wich the drrowning process takes to occur is influenced by plant size as well?


not as much size as vigor, but they are often times related


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## rastadred22 (Sep 29, 2010)

ok cuz i was thinking maybe this happened fast for me becuase of how small my plant is


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 29, 2010)

Right on RM3. Very very cool brother. Your research is paying off, as usual. Always reaching, then achieving that 'next level'. 

And rasta, you gotta get in line bruh, the next chamber built is going to my house !


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## rastadred22 (Sep 29, 2010)

lol! ight den my next harvest n my pillow n blanket will b comin to ur house as well lol!


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## Rocky Mountain High (Sep 29, 2010)

For sure !


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## xshooterx (Sep 29, 2010)

This is fun to watch Riddle... vicarious thrills, better than no thrills at all!

Question about cabinet size... is it important (no, she said, of course size is not important lol) Do you think you need much more cabinet volume than product? I just got a "double tap" from Master Kush so my thinking may be a bit askew %-)


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## rastadred22 (Sep 29, 2010)

new update on drowning n pics on my link in my sig..


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## riddleme (Sep 30, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> This is fun to watch Riddle... vicarious thrills, better than no thrills at all!
> 
> Question about cabinet size... is it important (no, she said, of course size is not important lol) Do you think you need much more cabinet volume than product? I just got a "double tap" from Master Kush so my thinking may be a bit askew %-)


I made it mine big enough to handle my upcomming harvest all at once, other than that I don't know with out doing some comparrison testing?



rastadred22 said:


> new update on drowning n pics on my link in my sig..


Looking delish my friend, can't wait for a smoke report


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## Danielsgb (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm wondering if my plant is maturing faster with partial CMH in it's life. At 54 days it looks like it's mom did at 60. I just updated it's journal with pics. I dropped a Dr. Doom fogger last night, but now it's further along so I'm unsure. it's *Well Here Goes Again
*Daniels*
*


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## riddleme (Sep 30, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I'm wondering if my plant is maturing faster with partial CMH in it's life. At 54 days it looks like it's mom did at 60. I just updated it's journal with pics. I dropped a Dr. Doom fogger last night, but now it's further along so I'm unsure. it's *Well Here Goes Again
> *Daniels*
> *


I would wait a week, because of the Dr Doom, but your right does look like it matured a bit faster


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## rastadred22 (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks riddle i cant wait neither


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## rastadred22 (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks riddle i cant wait neither!


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## Danielsgb (Sep 30, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I would wait a week, because of the Dr Doom, but your right does look like it matured a bit faster


I updated it with comparision pics from last run in this chamber. Gumball has a good point too. I planned on 60 some days to get past the cloudy/amber % but seeing how it's working for *rastadred22* I'm wondering. I was thinking 7 to 10 days to ferment. A week takes me to 61, then it's 68 to 71. 
Amazing how much better this plant looks. New camera, but *that* can't help that much.
Daniels


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## xshooterx (Sep 30, 2010)

I don't know... you might need two cabinets


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## sguardians2 (Sep 30, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Which link is it?
> 
> and by the way there are a few of you that will get the instructions on how to build it via PM once that chapter of the book is done


Ahh, just get me a signed copy of the book!


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## riddleme (Sep 30, 2010)

What if you saw a post that had a headline like,,,,,,,

From Chop to Done in 4 Days

You would post in that thread and cry outloud BullShit!!!

But folks that is what has happened, I got up this morning checked the chamber and said to myself damn these bitches are almost done and I was thinkin (hopin) it would take longer  Anyway I cut a small popcorn bud and put it in the pipe (yes right off the stem, no dry time) and was blown away by the taste, the smell, the high all absolutely incredible,,,,these bitches were completely cured in just 3 days (went in monday night, it's thursday night now) and I thought to myself ok dude this fucking cabinet is worth millions 

I PM RMH right away and ask if he can get over here, wanting more opinions I invite one of my patients, I will let RMH tell you his experience in his own words but my patient was thrilled, his first comment was dude you got that taste I like, it's amazing then after 4 hits he says whoa I better quit or I won't be able to drive home  Then he says hey I'm chopping my one plant this weekend can I bring it over and have you run it thru the chamber, I said of course you can.

I of course did pay a lot of attention to them as this was the first run and it was an experiment and I made a lot of adjustments till I figured out what seemed to be the sweet spot for things but this bitch surppassed even my wildest dreams and literally blew me away! I watched as they ripened, as buds chopped 2 weeks early turned amber in a day, I watched as the consistency of the buds as well as the color changed and then I tasted them and all I can say is WOW and then I got second opinions to verify what I was seeing (and tasting)

Tonight I trimmed em and right now they are getting a final dehumidifying then into the jars they go, which will put them done in 4 days and seriously I'll let RMH share his opinion but IMO I could sell these tomorrow and no one would complain, they are primo, done in 4 days buds,,,,,I think book sales just went up 

enjoy the pics, I'm thinkin there are about 2 oz's here? (I have not wieghed em yet)


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## sguardians2 (Sep 30, 2010)

riddleme said:


> What if you saw a post that had a headline like,,,,,,,
> 
> From Chop to Done in 4 Days
> 
> ...


 
Ok, sooo...uhh, where's my copy of your booK?


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## riddleme (Sep 30, 2010)

sguardians2 said:


> Ok, sooo...uhh, where's my copy of your booK?


I have not finished writing it yet


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## sguardians2 (Sep 30, 2010)

Oh, and how do I build one of those?

This is an incredible discovery! I'll be looking to design on a dime with that idea in mind, just control temps, humidity and air flow, right?


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## riddleme (Sep 30, 2010)

sguardians2 said:


> Oh, and how do I build one of those?
> 
> This is an incredible discovery! I'll be looking to design on a dime with that idea in mind, just control temps, humidity and air flow, right?


It is a bit more complicated than that, but if you have read my harvesting & curing ditty you could figure it out that's how I did


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## Illumination (Sep 30, 2010)

riddleme said:


> What if you saw a post that had a headline like,,,,,,,
> 
> From Chop to Done in 4 Days
> 
> ...


Amazing teach!! As sooon as it is published I will gladly buy one...if you sign it....

Again, I am impressed....

Namaste'


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## rastadred22 (Sep 30, 2010)

thats crazy riddle! i want one of dem bitches! thats just unbelievable anything that i kno has only dried for 3days taste like shit! might get u high but taste like chloraphyll bad! i cant believe that! even from looking at em u can tell they been cured! once again  ur a genious my man!!


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## maniacal420 (Sep 30, 2010)

You are a mad genius for sure. You never cease to amaze us. Thanks again.


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## riddleme (Sep 30, 2010)

maniacal420 said:


> You are a mad genius for sure. You never cease to amaze us. Thanks again.


your welcome, but not trying to amaze you trying to get you high


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## ElectricPineapple (Sep 30, 2010)

amazing riddle. you are always pushing the boundaries and turning what we know abotu growing upside down for the better. truly a good teacher. havent posted i awhile but i have been around haha. 

Keep doing what you are doing, oh and btw im finally in CO. moved here the 18th of september, and LOVE it.


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## Danielsgb (Sep 30, 2010)

From 6-13


Danielsgb said:


> Got caught up this morning to reading this. GREAT job. I will have to keep looking at the links cause that's a ton to read Since you took the dozens of hours, I'll put in a few till I get it absorbed. Once again
> 
> 
> 
> ...





riddleme said:


> Woo Hoo my first customer, better get writin ay?
> 
> verifying information is a bitch sometines but I love doing research as I love learnin and understanding things
> 
> ...


So I called the first one.




From 6-13 and I'll drown one now Very soon.  These with just Jack's 20-20-20 worked great for me.
Daniels


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## gumball (Oct 1, 2010)

great job riddleme.


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## riddleme (Oct 1, 2010)

ElectricPineapple said:


> amazing riddle. you are always pushing the boundaries and turning what we know abotu growing upside down for the better. truly a good teacher. havent posted i awhile but i have been around haha.
> 
> Keep doing what you are doing, oh and btw im finally in CO. moved here the 18th of september, and LOVE it.


Welcome to Colorado! we'll have to get together sometime


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## riddleme (Oct 1, 2010)

Well they are in jars now and when RMH came by yesterday he brought me another bud, he suggested that I hang dry it for comparrison, but I had other ideas  got it going thru the chamber by itself to see what happens with just one bud (no pile, no composting effect?) I am predicting that it will work but take a bit longer,,,,we'll see?

and my patient will be bringing his on sunday so we will get to do yet another test with another strain to see what happens with it?


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## rucca (Oct 1, 2010)

Love you experiments riddle - the dry/cure chamber reminds me of something I read on burying your harvest in compost. 

How long do you drown your plants for prior to harvest and is there any part during the drowning you let them dry and get oxygen to the roots?


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## riddleme (Oct 1, 2010)

rucca said:


> Love you experiments riddle - the dry/cure chamber reminds me of something I read on burying your harvest in compost.
> 
> How long do you drown your plants for prior to harvest and is there any part during the drowning you let them dry and get oxygen to the roots?


Have not done it yet but reports vary, depends on the vigor of the plant and an experiment was just done where an extended dark time seemed to speed up the process (I will confirm when I do mine) you do not want to allow O2 to the roots whole idea is to kill em via drowing to start the fermentation process which the plant will do in an effort to survive


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## WWShadow (Oct 1, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Well they are in jars now and when RMH came by yesterday he brought me another bud, he suggested that I hang dry it for comparrison, but I had other ideas  got it going thru the chamber by itself to see what happens with just one bud (no pile, no composting effect?) I am predicting that it will work but take a bit longer,,,,we'll see?
> 
> and my patient will be bringing his on sunday so we will get to do yet another test with another strain to see what happens with it?


two jars? that's it? 2 jars is all that pile amounted to? oh, you guys "sampled" quite a bit of it, didn't you, lol.
you're gonna do a single bud and you expect it to take longer, but then you have another harvest coming sunday to work on..
so my question is will the single bud still dry/cure properly with a loaded shelf or maybe two above/below or above and below(sandwich effect)? perhaps better? faster/slower. Ha ha ha your experimenting is going to generate many questions that you might not want to answer at this time (because it'll be in the book).
2 links down & a few more to go. that first link "take back..." seems to contradict itself on several points in the dry & cure process. If THC is degraded by heat then how do plants survive the summer & still produce herb of any quality? (semi-rehtorical question, lol). I think I figured out how "drowning" would work for Hydro grows.
Take RMH's grow If he wanted to drown his crop whould he simply flood it like a rice field for 7 -10 days? that could be a lot of water for some growers!! 
didn't mean to ramble. Definitely glad that you share so much knowledge on the forum.
I definitely want that book when it comes out!!!!


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## riddleme (Oct 1, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> two jars? that's it? 2 jars is all that pile amounted to? oh, you guys "sampled" quite a bit of it, didn't you, lol.
> you're gonna do a single bud and you expect it to take longer, but then you have another harvest coming sunday to work on..
> so my question is will the single bud still dry/cure properly with a loaded shelf or maybe two above/below or above and below(sandwich effect)? perhaps better? faster/slower. Ha ha ha your experimenting is going to generate many questions that you might not want to answer at this time (because it'll be in the book).
> 2 links down & a few more to go. that first link "take back..." seems to contradict itself on several points in the dry & cure process. If THC is degraded by heat then how do plants survive the summer & still produce herb of any quality? (semi-rehtorical question, lol). I think I figured out how "drowning" would work for Hydro grows.
> ...


Yes it will be interesting for sure as I do have 3 more shelves so adding another harvest on sunday is no big deal and let's us see a "staggered" harvest. And this is ground breaking new territory for harvesting and curing so yes a lot of questions, I will be trying to answer all of em


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## rucca (Oct 1, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Have not done it yet but reports vary, depends on the vigor of the plant and an experiment was just done where an extended dark time seemed to speed up the process (I will confirm when I do mine) you do not want to allow O2 to the roots whole idea is to kill em via drowing to start the fermentation process which the plant will do in an effort to survive



Cool - I actually did this with a plant kind of accidently recently. Trying to reveg a plant - I left a few popcorns on it after harvest, trimmed the roots down, put in a party cup, and added some water. Well it looked pretty pathetic the next day so I just lazily stuck it aside in dark corner and forgot about it. Cleaning up the room next week, I discovered the party cup, soil still fairly moist, and the 2 popcorn buds were smokeable - so I smoked them. They weren't as smooth as the nugs I had been jarring, but they were OK. Anyway, it piqued my interest and I will be drowning another soon.


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## bobhamm (Oct 1, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Have not done it yet but reports vary, depends on the vigor of the plant and an experiment was just done where an extended dark time seemed to speed up the process (I will confirm when I do mine) you do not want to allow O2 to the roots whole idea is to kill em via drowing to start the fermentation process which the plant will do in an effort to survive


so to drown properly(one must maintain proper etiquette at all times musn't one?  ) 
7-10 days before harvest place pot in larger pot, fill with water till the plants soil is totally submerged
2 days(or so?) before harvest, plunge plant into the dark abyss

then at harvest...? do anything different?(assuming no fermentation chamber) dry normally? cure normally?


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## rastadred22 (Oct 1, 2010)

i would say yes but i dint srtart to drown mine until it was ready for harvest...and im hangin and jar curing...i will come backi with the smoke report wen its dry to compare but yea i cant wait i think i might get an oz off this plant idk yet...we already tried 3.5 grams within the pst few weeks from a branch i pulled off to try but yea i cant wait! the smell is crazy it more of a potent weed smell than the drying not so pleasant chloraphyll smell cant wait to taste it!


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## bobhamm (Oct 1, 2010)

do the trichomes continue to turn amber after the drowning begins?


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## rastadred22 (Oct 1, 2010)

yes they did for me


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## bobhamm (Oct 1, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> yes they did for me


thanks, any idea how much they chamged? juat a rough guess? like from 30% to 40% or? you did 2 days dark period when you started drowning?


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## rastadred22 (Oct 1, 2010)

no 12 hours under light and then 3days


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## ElectricPineapple (Oct 1, 2010)

for sure riddle! i have to get my workshop set up before the snow hits, then run electricity to it, so i can start growing. once i get every thing put up and get some strains going. itd be awesome to get a true expert and a pro to come look at my garden. 

and the chamber you built is amazing. i cant believe you have invented a chamber to dry and cure bud in less than a week. i think i need to build one haha. oh the stuff i am wanting to build hmmm. 

EP


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## Danielsgb (Oct 2, 2010)

RiddleMe, I started a Grow Journal you inspired. Check it out when you can. 
*FrigiDare 2 Indica's Infrared Spectrum Trial*


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## riddleme (Oct 2, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> RiddleMe, I started a Grow Journal you inspired. Check it out when you can.
> *FrigiDare 2 Indica's Infrared Spectrum Trial*


Link is giving a 404 error


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## riddleme (Oct 2, 2010)

ElectricPineapple said:


> for sure riddle! i have to get my workshop set up before the snow hits, then run electricity to it, so i can start growing. once i get every thing put up and get some strains going. itd be awesome to get a true expert and a pro to come look at my garden.
> 
> and the chamber you built is amazing. i cant believe you have invented a chamber to dry and cure bud in less than a week. i think i need to build one haha. oh the stuff i am wanting to build hmmm.
> 
> EP


Always happy to visit a garden


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## Danielsgb (Oct 2, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Link is giving a 404 error


I have it on my sig link now so that should work.


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## Rocky Mountain High (Oct 2, 2010)

I had some serious doubts about this 'magical chamber' that RM3 was building. I figured, especially with the big buds from the outdoor, this thing is gonna mold, especially leaving the leaves on. I figured this would be the first big FAIL of the riddleme madman's theories.

I was sorely, and happily mistaken.

He took some branches on Monday night. The were from the back of the plant and lower, but still good sized and dense. I watched the updates and then got the message I needed to come and confirm the initial results.

I figured it would be like, fresh dried buds, taste green and burn shitty. But it was quite the opposite. 

I had been telling RM3 that I used to dry my plants out before harvest so they dry faster and the patients get them faster, I was always behind playing catch. I noticed I could never get a cure outta them, too damn dry. 

Now that I have caught up and don't have to rush, I've been keeping them wet, not drowing (yet), but wet. And the cure is so much better. The buds have that nice 'spongy' texture and when you put them in a space case it makes these nice little squares, kinda like tobacco. It's perfect.

Well I expected, in less than 3 days time, for it to be like the dried out plants. Hard brittle, and probably still wet in the middle. 

No way, it was nice and spongy, just like I love it. It wasn't harsh, but instead very smooth. It had a nice degree of curing, in 3 days, with no drying. I was really pretty amazed. Also, they were about 10% amber trichomes when he took them and under my scope they had 'ripened' up to close to 50%. 

Now on the plants I have been chopping, I truly expect they will hang for over a week to get the moisture out of some of the buds and then they will probably have to burped or left open for a good amount of time. 

I honestly can't wait to see how these buds that RM3 has will be like in say 10 days. 

Cutting that dry time and simultaneously getting the cure is invaluable to me. With all the tight restrictions in Colorado's medical laws, you simply can't afford to sit on it. This magical cabinet will allow you to not only cut the time but more importantly provide your patients with a much, much better product, which is what it's really all about.

RM3 continues his trek to the perfect smoke and this piece is another important part to the puzzle he is quickly putting together.


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## riddleme (Oct 3, 2010)

Ok I know I have neglected regular garden updates and I will work on getting one together once this final test is finished, I have to devote time to the chamber but am not neglecting my garden, made it rain yesterday and watered the veg room this morning, garden is doing nicely will get pics at end of week 4 flowering which will be tuesday

Back to the chamber,,,,,The single bud that was put in thursday is done and in a jar, it finished in just 2 days and required a different set of tweaks. it has the same look and feel as the first set of buds, I have not tasted it yet 

Yesterday I went over to RMH's and trimmed a few buds as he has started his outdoor harvest. I grabbed a whole bunch of lower popcorn budded branches off the plants he had cut so I could do a test run in the chamber with lots of green  you will see that on 3 of the shelfs and mixed in with it are 2 agent orange buds that we cut 3 weeks early just to see what happens  On the top shelf is my patients plant which is a GDP (very nice purples) So far the tweaks and adjustments have been way different but I have been able to dial into the sweet spot. we will see what happens?

The trek to that perfect smoke that RMH mentioned has been a mission for me, I know it is possible because I used to buy these buds (years ago) that were the best smoke I ever had, it went for $100 a gram and no one complained, I have posted here about it before. That guy would not share his secrets so I have been on a mission to figure it out and I am damn close. The one thing that his bud did was stay sticky, it never dried out and the buds from the first goddess run are now there, I left them set out for 3 hours yesterday and they did not get dry or crispy, they just stayed spongy and sticky and the high, oh my god, this shit is good, my 4th hit last night actually buckled my knees and I went to bed, it put me down GOOD  just one or 2 hits is a very good stone. I gave an oz back to RMH yesterday so we'll see what his opinion is here soon?

There is no doubt in my mind that I have figured out the old growers secret way of curing and there is no doubt that this process makes the smoke better, I will keep on tweaking till I get the process perfected 

here are the pics


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## SensiStan (Oct 3, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Ok I know I have neglected regular garden updates and I will work on getting one together once this final test is finished, I have to devote time to the chamber but am not neglecting my garden, made it rain yesterday and watered the veg room this morning, garden is doing nicely will get pics at end of week 4 flowering which will be tuesday
> 
> Back to the chamber,,,,,The single bud that was put in thursday is done and in a jar, it finished in just 2 days and required a different set of tweaks. it has the same look and feel as the first set of buds, I have not tasted it yet
> 
> ...


This last few months for me knowing you riddle has been like cannabis university. i spent a few years learning online and reading and watching video's. but iv gotta say from making it rain to harvesting and curing i have to agree. i think you've cracked it and iv been sitting here with my notepad jotting it all down for the day i do my "balls to the wall" grow. u should defo write a book as i dont think all the other "how to" books out there offer what you can to the growing community  i really cant wait to see the results of ur grow, its a real pity i wont be able to sample the finished product because i think its going to be one of a kind. thanks for sharing your information on producing the worlds best pot


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## riddleme (Oct 3, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> This last few months for me knowing you riddle has been like cannabis university. i spent a few years learning online and reading and watching video's. but iv gotta say from making it rain to harvesting and curing i have to agree. i think you've cracked it and iv been sitting here with my notepad jotting it all down for the day i do my "balls to the wall" grow. u should defo write a book as i dont think all the other "how to" books out there offer what you can to the growing community  i really cant wait to see the results of ur grow, its a real pity i wont be able to sample the finished product because i think its going to be one of a kind. thanks for sharing your information on producing the worlds best pot


Thank you my friend, I would love to have everyone here taste my buds  but alas that is not possible. I understand black market/commercial growers hoarding their secrets but when it comes to medical I believe the info should be shared, the patients that need the medicine deserve the very best and seeing the crap that the dispensaries have been hocking sickens me, so I have shared my research and test experiments to help other patients get the very best in the end that is what should be important


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## WWShadow (Oct 3, 2010)

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes to cure bud that was started fermenting prior to harvest.
Props Riddle


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## riddleme (Oct 3, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> It'll be interesting to see how long it takes to cure bud that was started fermenting prior to harvest.
> Props Riddle


we'll know in about 5 weeks once my current grow is done


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## SensiStan (Oct 3, 2010)

i wont be able to taste your buds, but i will be able to replicate them . and id rather be able to replicate them on a large scale instead of just being able to try them, so i suppose i still win  . 

and medicinal or not, every grower should aspire for perfection. i think the problem with your dispensaries is the fact that everybody thinks what theyre growing is the best, and a lot of people think theyre getting "high grade" when really we would call it crap. thats why i love people like you who educate


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## Comando (Oct 3, 2010)

dont suppose you were at Grow 2010???? I Made sure to stop by Dynagro...They are a Very cool company and eager to share their info with you. Copped me some Protekt, Grow, and Bloom...gonna run it against the high end NUTRI+(plus) they compare them selves to AN. And I feel that Dyna and Jacks are among the same class of nutes. o yea by the way.>>>UPDATE....I keep hoping to see some Stick drippy nuggets whenever I log on....Whats a player gota do???? LOL...but no for real........


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## riddleme (Oct 3, 2010)

Comando said:


> dont suppose you were at Grow 2010???? I Made sure to stop by Dynagro...They are a Very cool company and eager to share their info with you. Copped me some Protekt, Grow, and Bloom...gonna run it against the high end NUTRI+(plus) they compare them selves to AN. And I feel that Dyna and Jacks are among the same class of nutes. o yea by the way.>>>UPDATE....I keep hoping to see some Stick drippy nuggets whenever I log on....Whats a player gota do???? LOL...but no for real........


yes my girls are drippin, yes they are twice as big as the last set of pics but you have to wait to see them, they are being shy tonight


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## bigman4270 (Oct 3, 2010)

Comando said:


> dont suppose you were at Grow 2010???? I Made sure to stop by Dynagro...They are a Very cool company and eager to share their info with you. Copped me some Protekt, Grow, and Bloom...gonna run it against the high end NUTRI+(plus) they compare them selves to AN. And I feel that Dyna and Jacks are among the same class of nutes. o yea by the way.>>>UPDATE....I keep hoping to see some Stick drippy nuggets whenever I log on....Whats a player gota do???? LOL...but no for real........


 
You must learn patience as I have been tought by the master. lol I am sure it will be worth the wait.


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## LiveHigh (Oct 3, 2010)

riddleme said:


> The trek to that perfect smoke that RMH mentioned has been a mission for me, I know it is possible because I used to buy these buds (years ago) that were the best smoke I ever had, it went for $100 a gram and no one complained, I have posted here about it before. That guy would not share his secrets so I have been on a mission to figure it out and I am damn close. The one thing that his bud did was stay sticky, it never dried out and the buds from the first goddess run are now there, I left them set out for 3 hours yesterday and they did not get dry or crispy, they just stayed spongy and sticky and the high, oh my god, this shit is good, my 4th hit last night actually buckled my knees and I went to bed, it put me down GOOD  just one or 2 hits is a very good stone. I gave an oz back to RMH yesterday so we'll see what his opinion is here soon?


Shiiiiat. I would tell someone to kiss my ass, if they told me $100 a gram. I wish I could believe there was smoke out there better than OG Raskal gear; just because it would be ridiculous, but I really don't believe this harvest and cure method is going to make the bud that much better. Not trying to be a hater either. I'll keep watching and check out the buds afterwards.


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## Delux83 (Oct 4, 2010)

i love you and all but 100 a g you got hustled ive smoked one hiter quiter b4 never payed near that and im from the midwest


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## bobhamm (Oct 4, 2010)

how fast does water travel from the inside of the bud to the outside of the bud or at least to where it can evaporate from the bud ? anyone know? I realize it would vary but, any guesses? so when your bud is dry on the outside how long till it wets up again? and yes I think it applies here where we are talking aboiut drying/curing, seems to me if you hit that sweet spot where it was evaporating at the same rate as it was being replenished from inside the bud that that is as fast as you could dry(and/or cure, no idea what riddle is doing with his "Chamber"  )


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

Delux83 said:


> i love you and all but 100 a g you got hustled ive smoked one hiter quiter b4 never payed near that and im from the midwest


literally a pinch the size of a match head would put me down for 6 hours those buds lasted me like 3 months, I had no problem paying the $100 it was awesome smoke


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

LiveHigh said:


> Shiiiiat. I would tell someone to kiss my ass, if they told me $100 a gram. I wish I could believe there was smoke out there better than OG Raskal gear; just because it would be ridiculous, but I really don't believe this harvest and cure method is going to make the bud that much better. Not trying to be a hater either. I'll keep watching and check out the buds afterwards.


already showed the buds and did a smoke report? and it def makes em better


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> how fast does water travel from the inside of the bud to the outside of the bud or at least to where it can evaporate from the bud ? anyone know? I realize it would vary but, any guesses? so when your bud is dry on the outside how long till it wets up again? and yes I think it applies here where we are talking aboiut drying/curing, seems to me if you hit that sweet spot where it was evaporating at the same rate as it was being replenished from inside the bud that that is as fast as you could dry(and/or cure, no idea what riddle is doing with his "Chamber"  )


 
I'm fermenting buds


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## Danielsgb (Oct 4, 2010)

I started drowning a plant yesterday. It does seem to smell even more this morning. Living on it's own sugars. Cool experiment General RM3.
Daniels


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## bobhamm (Oct 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I'm fermenting buds


what I meant was I didnt know how you were doing what you are doing  feeling feisty this morning are ye? as I understand it you are simultaneously drying/curing the bud, correct? thats why I was wondering how fast water travels intra-budwise so that essentially you are hitting that sweet spot where it dries literally as fast as it can, not sure what the curing is all about


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> what I meant was I didnt know how you were doing what you are doing  feeling feisty this morning are ye? as I understand it you are simultaneously drying/curing the bud, correct? thats why I was wondering how fast water travels intra-budwise so that essentially you are hitting that sweet spot where it dries literally as fast as it can, not sure what the curing is all about


right now I am actually trying to slow it down, but the moisture does move a bit, think of the big piles in the chamber as a single bud in a jar


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## gumball (Oct 4, 2010)

100 bucks a gram just doesn't make economical sense for a recreational smoker. Maybe if you only used it for medical. Plus, a lot of MMJ users prefer cannabis as medicine because it doesn't put them down like pharmaceuticals nor have the side effects. Don't get me wrong, I like good bud, and every now and then I like to be comatose, but I like the motivation and focus cannabis gives me. I would think a lot of this is still strain related.


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## bobhamm (Oct 4, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I started drowning a plant yesterday. It does seem to smell even more this morning. Living on it's own sugars. Cool experiment General RM3.
> Daniels


 where were your amber trichs at percentage wise?


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

gumball said:


> 100 bucks a gram just doesn't make economical sense for a recreational smoker. Maybe if you only used it for medical. Plus, a lot of MMJ users prefer cannabis as medicine because it doesn't put them down like pharmaceuticals nor have the side effects. Don't get me wrong, I like good bud, and every now and then I like to be comatose, but I like the motivation and focus cannabis gives me. I would think a lot of this is still strain related.


this was back in the early 80's before all these fancy strains evolved and pretty much most of what was out there was swag


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## Danielsgb (Oct 4, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> where were your amber trichs at percentage wise?


Low %, Maybe 10%. Full cloudy.


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## bobhamm (Oct 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> right now I am actually trying to slow it down, but the moisture does move a bit, think of the big piles in the chamber as a single bud in a jar


ok, now Im confused, somedays its a constant state  if the bud was dried/cured in 4days, how is that slowed down? do you mean just the drying part is slowed down? from what I've read 4 days for drying is not unusual? back to the books for me i guess


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## WWShadow (Oct 4, 2010)

It will be interesting to see if different strains require different settings to achieve optimum results. Also over all dryness/curing between larger, thicker buds & the smaller popcorn buds. I could actually see having 2 or more chambers for the different size buds in order to maintain proper enviroment for the fermenting. I doubt I ever have that particular problem though, lol


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## bobhamm (Oct 4, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Low %, Maybe 10%. Full cloudy.


ahh, just about where mine are, though I have yest to see an amber one on my most advanced plant... will be watching your thread to see how it goes


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## rastadred22 (Oct 4, 2010)

mids here which is really good brick goes for $150 a q! $100 for 3grams $50 for 1.8grams...but the reason for that is we are to small to have cash crops so we import and smuggle so they are bricked then imported so thats y its pricey as fuck this bud i jsut harvest could easliy go for $100 a gram! without a doubt i could sell .8 for $100 especially cuz its not brick and its high grade!

=also to bobhamm ive yet to meet someone who can cure and dry within 4days and people (the ppl that have the patients and kno that it pays off) try to draw out the drying and curing process! i kno alot of people who try to dry for 2weeks and then start the cure! but then again for someone in new england they will dry there buds alot faster than someone here but the longer the better...and riddleme just flipped that theory upside down with this chamber! u dont need the patients u dont need the time to achieve what u want...so imagin if u took the time in a chamber like that!...not to sure how u cant see that discovery!?


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## LiveHigh (Oct 4, 2010)

Ahhh, early 80's and such. Okay. Well, your tolerance was probably shit compared to what it is now and you smoked some real dank bud. Simple as that. I just really doubt that guy had this little chamber and stuff you got going and he's been keeping it a secret from everyone forever. Not to mention, it doesn't sound like the bud got any better than a normal cure...just smokable quicker.

But to dry the buds, aren't you having to blow your fan on them on high? I mean, you could blow a fan on buds hanging on high for 2 days and dry em quick and then pop em in jars for 2 days and have a 4 day smoke too.

Sorry. I hate coming to your threads and doing nothing but hassle ya, but I'm just being skeptical. I appreciate the fact that you tinker and try out different shit and share it with us. Can't find the next best thang unless ya try.


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## bobhamm (Oct 4, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> ... to bobhamm ive yet to meet someone who can cure and dry within 4days and people (the ppl that have the patients and kno that it pays off) try to draw out the drying and curing process! i kno alot of people who try to dry for 2weeks and then start the cure! but then again for someone in new england they will dry there buds alot faster than someone here but the longer the better...and riddleme just flipped that theory upside down with this chamber! u dont need the patients u dont need the time to achieve what u want...so imagin if u took the time in a chamber like that!...not to sure how u cant see that discovery!?


where I got confused was people talking about slowing down the drying process and 4 days from chop to done is definitly not slowing down 

edit: or are you saying that more than 4 days in the chamber would do something further for the buds riddle is curing?


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

LiveHigh said:


> Ahhh, early 80's and such. Okay. Well, your tolerance was probably shit compared to what it is now and you smoked some real dank bud. Simple as that. I just really doubt that guy had this little chamber and stuff you got going and he's been keeping it a secret from everyone forever. Not to mention, it doesn't sound like the bud got any better than a normal cure...just smokable quicker.
> 
> But to dry the buds, aren't you having to blow your fan on them on high? I mean, you could blow a fan on buds hanging on high for 2 days and dry em quick and then pop em in jars for 2 days and have a 4 day smoke too.
> 
> Sorry. I hate coming to your threads and doing nothing but hassle ya, but I'm just being skeptical. I appreciate the fact that you tinker and try out different shit and share it with us. Can't find the next best thang unless ya try.


Skeptical is good, but I am not blowing a fan on them and the bud in the chamber is way better than hung dry bud (I have samples of both, same strain from same garden) It is not about drying them, it is about fermenting them,,,,there is a huge difference


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> where I got confused was people talking about slowing down the drying process and 4 days from chop to done is definitly not slowing down
> 
> edit: or are you saying that more than 4 days in the chamber would do something further for the buds riddle is curing?


I am trying to slow down the process on this current run, it may take me a couple of runthrus to get it dialed in we'll see?


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## LiveHigh (Oct 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Skeptical is good, but I am not blowing a fan on them and the bud in the chamber is way better than hung dry bud (I have samples of both, same strain from same garden) It is not about drying them, it is about fermenting them,,,,there is a huge difference


How exactly is it fermenting? I've read there are no fermentable sugars in cannabis.


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## WWShadow (Oct 4, 2010)

what if... slowing the process improves the product enough to make a noticable difference... that's great. However...
What if Slowing down the process ruins it? or you end up with the equivelent of snicklefitz? or Schwag if you prefer, lol
either way, these are experiments. Each one that Riddle is doing risks that chance of ruining a lot of potentially good smoke. It's not mine. I'm not going to be out anything. I was skeptical at first but I've read so many of Riddles's threads that I have come to expect an honest report whether the experiment worked or bombed.
If four days produces smoke the same quality as some that was dried & cured for a total of 6 to 8 weeks; that is a huge accomplishment! Not to mention a potentially very valuable discovery. How many harvests could you move through a chamber like that? even at seven days a pop. You could be running, theoretically, a harvest a week. How many pounds would that be at the end of 8weeks just in the small chamber that Riddle made. 
ok, enough insane rambling.


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## gumball (Oct 4, 2010)

Is a humidor for cigars similar (I know your keeping your chamber a secret for your book, I am only looking for items which maybe similar to build off of) to your fermenting chamber? You've provided such little info I don't want to read incorrect information and ruin my harvest.


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

LiveHigh said:


> How exactly is it fermenting? I've read there are no fermentable sugars in cannabis.


my ditty on the research is on page 40 & 41 of my calling all noob growers thread, it is a 4 part ditty and a lot of reading, it is everything I read in order to figure it out and it does ferment them, trust me that is quite obvious 

Problem is it goes against everything that is known (or believed to be known) and that creates skepticism, which I have always invited


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

gumball said:


> Is a humidor for cigars similar (I know your keeping your chamber a secret for your book, I am only looking for items which maybe similar to build off of) to your fermenting chamber? You've provided such little info I don't want to read incorrect information and ruin my harvest.


a humidor is similar, I built the chamber based off the Hovabator that folks were using to ferment tobacco, which is discussed in my ditty


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## riddleme (Oct 4, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> what if... slowing the process improves the product enough to make a noticable difference... that's great. However...
> What if Slowing down the process ruins it? or you end up with the equivelent of snicklefitz? or Schwag if you prefer, lol
> either way, these are experiments. Each one that Riddle is doing risks that chance of ruining a lot of potentially good smoke. It's not mine. I'm not going to be out anything. I was skeptical at first but I've read so many of Riddles's threads that I have come to expect an honest report whether the experiment worked or bombed.
> If four days produces smoke the same quality as some that was dried & cured for a total of 6 to 8 weeks; that is a huge accomplishment! Not to mention a potentially very valuable discovery. How many harvests could you move through a chamber like that? even at seven days a pop. You could be running, theoretically, a harvest a week. How many pounds would that be at the end of 8weeks just in the small chamber that Riddle made.
> ok, enough insane rambling.


experimenting always carries a risk, but only way to learn and improve things


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## riddleme (Oct 5, 2010)

today is the end of week 4 of flower, begining of week 5 and here are the pics, they are coming along nicely 

Enjoy


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## WWShadow (Oct 5, 2010)

So were you able to slow the process in the fermentation box or is it still cranking it out fast?


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## riddleme (Oct 5, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> So were you able to slow the process in the fermentation box or is it still cranking it out fast?


It has slowed a minor bit, partly due to having more in it, the closeups are the 2 agent orange buds that were chopped 3 weeks early, they are ripening nicely


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## Danielsgb (Oct 5, 2010)

riddleme said:


> It has slowed a minor bit, partly due to having more in it, the closeups are the 2 agent orange buds that were chopped 3 weeks early, they are ripening nicely


I started drowning a plant on Sunday, and it looks like it's living on fan leaves as expected. I was wondering what you think of the way your Fermentation Chamber will work after a week of drowning? I assume it goes even faster but IDK. The plant drowning reeks BTW.
Daniels


Plants look great also


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## riddleme (Oct 5, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I started drowning a plant on Sunday, and it looks like it's living on fan leaves as expected. I was wondering what you think of the way your Fermentation Chamber will work after a week of drowning? I assume it goes even faster but IDK. The plant drowning reeks BTW.
> Daniels
> 
> 
> Plants look great also


I will be drowning mine and then in the chamber so we will see once they are done  at this point I have no idea what to expect as it just keeps going beyond my wildest expectations


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## rastadred22 (Oct 5, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I started drowning a plant on Sunday, and it looks like it's living on fan leaves as expected. I was wondering what you think of the way your Fermentation Chamber will work after a week of drowning? I assume it goes even faster but IDK. The plant drowning reeks BTW.
> Daniels
> 
> 
> Plants look great also


dont u love that smell! its almost instantly that it starts tio reek! and wow does it get strong lol


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## rastadred22 (Oct 5, 2010)

riddleme said:


> today is the end of week 4 of flower, begining of week 5 and here are the pics, they are coming along nicely
> 
> Enjoy


wos! buds everywur!!! cant believe u have monster buds like that! buds of that size are mostly only seen outdoors! thats lookin good man!!


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## riddleme (Oct 5, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> wos! buds everywur!!! cant believe u have monster buds like that! buds of that size are mostly only seen outdoors! thats lookin good man!!


Somebody once said that I knew what I was doing


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## gumball (Oct 5, 2010)

Care to guesstimate on your yield? 

I say close to a lb, from what I see. Your curing process may increase dry weight over normal harvests.


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## rastadred22 (Oct 5, 2010)

lol! i guess that persons right! noffin but excellence comin outa that house!


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## bigman4270 (Oct 5, 2010)

They all can doubt and hate but as the saying goes, "the proof is in the picture".

They look freaking amazing!


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## riddleme (Oct 5, 2010)

You know I say it all the time, a good grow is the sum of all parts, dialing in all elements of your garden is what gives great results and in my threads I have explained each element and how I dial them,,,,I know a lot of reading but hey those that read it are growing great buds


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## bigman4270 (Oct 5, 2010)

riddleme said:


> You know I say it all the time, a good grow is the sum of all parts, dialing in all elements of your garden is what gives great results and in my threads I have explained each element and how I dial them,,,,I know a lot of reading but hey those that read it are growing great buds


 I have been here since the beginning and have read and reread all your threads, journals, and ditties and I know I would not be growing what I am today, had I not read it. The information you provide is like a self paced course. As a persons skills develop, they are able to implement different aspects of advanced information. I myself have compiled the information so that it works for my style of growing. As my skill, time and knowledge increase I add more things to my approach to dial it in as you say. 

Always a pleasure reading your info and watching your grow.

Peace

Big


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## riddleme (Oct 5, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> I have been here since the beginning and have read and reread all your threads, journals, and ditties and I know I would not be growing what I am today, had I not read it. The information you provide is like a self paced course. As a persons skills develop, they are able to implement different aspects of advanced information. I myself have compiled the information so that it works for my style of growing. As my skill, time and knowledge increase I add more things to my approach to dial it in as you say.
> 
> Always a pleasure reading your info and watching your grow.
> 
> ...


Thank you my friend, I love how all of you that were there when I started the "game" are all growing now, all have harvest under your belt and are all advancing into experienced growers. Truely makes my day!

and for you lurkers you can still develope your own style, you do not have to follow what I do exactly, there were hydro growers that played the game and there are several growers that adapt my info to their gardens in different ways. The actual fact of the matter is there are no two gardens that are exactly alike. all of the dialable elements vary from location to location and must still be dialed accordingly. You also need to learn to be vigilant, read the plants and understand the garden, if something changes you must adapt to it, like when I added the second light, everything changed and I had to adjust

This adventure has been a lot of fun for me and I appreciate all of you that have tagged along and helped make it more interesting for me, I am happy that I got to share it with you, so much better than just doing it alone


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## riddleme (Oct 5, 2010)

Chamber buds are different, RMH told me that they did not do well in his grinder thingy, that they seemed wet. I had the same thing in my grinder (which is a electric coffee bean grinder) they were sticky as hell. We talked and guessed that somehow they were still wet in the middle because of the short dry time. So I left em out of the jar for 3 hours, no difference. It is as if the sticky stuff has sealed em, so I was thinkin that the moisture could not get out, I left em out another 3 hours, no difference? I left em out all day while I was at work so a bit over 8 hours, no difference, they are done and this is how they are? I took one and cut it in half to see if could find moisture in the middle, none? and also even though I left em just sit out the stems are still bendable, no snap?

The pics are of the bud I cut in half, so you can see the insides, they are beatiful, they are loaded with crystals, they are sticky, they are different, but they get you high as hell 

I think I may have created a demon bud?


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## maniacal420 (Oct 5, 2010)

Thank you for being here and sharing all of your ideas. I still have a lot to learn and you are a great teacher. Keep on keepin on.


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## grnbutr (Oct 5, 2010)

This has been a very informative thread thanks for all help my grow is still young but Ive been reading your post as well as other and between you Uncle ben and hobbes Ive gotten all the answers to my questions so far just by reading, but its nice to have you guys out there when we need you. Thanks 

P.S. do you think a humidor could get the buds dryer?


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## riddleme (Oct 5, 2010)

grnbutr said:


> This has been a very informative thread thanks for all help my grow is still young but Ive been reading your post as well as other and between you Uncle ben and hobbes Ive gotten all the answers to my questions so far just by reading, but its nice to have you guys out there when we need you. Thanks
> 
> P.S. do you think a humidor could get the buds dryer?


Don't know, I don't have one  but I am now leavin em in the jar to see if any moisture comes out? thing is I can't find any moisture but I'm still messing with em


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## WWShadow (Oct 5, 2010)

How does it burn rolled? packed in a bowl or bong? If the moisture is "sealed" inside the bud then do you still risk mold? Ok, gonna show my ignorance, lol. What is the need for a grinder?
just thought of another question. How much different will these fermented bud/trim be for hash? well that parts that would become hash.
You said you had some of the same strain hang drying for comparison. Have you had a chance to compare them yet? maybe I missed that part...
Also are you saying that the fermented buds are more potent than the hung ones?
I can just imagine what you room looks like notebooks & sticky notes everywhere; keeping track of so may variables... Good luck with all of that!!! I can't wait to have that problem, lol!


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## riddleme (Oct 6, 2010)

I have not rolled it, I use a bong  and it burns great, nice grey ash, no problem
once you use a grinder you will never go back, LOL it is just better, I use it to make salads throw a few different strains in there and walla it's party time  but it also collects kief in the lid, actually kinda cool how it works
I have compared the buds and so has my patient, we both agree hands down the chamber buds are better
and I keep all the info in my head, I never take notes


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## Lowphat (Oct 6, 2010)

Just wanted to say thanx for all the information you share.I have read through your threads for the last 4-5 months and have learned a lot.I enjoy your posts....keep up the great work.Oh and I've seen Accept perform balls to wall a few times live back in the day.Rock on bro.



Low


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## RastaMonsta (Oct 6, 2010)

you should make some finger hash with the sticky icky demon bud


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## reefacheefa (Oct 7, 2010)

gorgeous buds Riddle man!! i vote throw them bitches in a glass pipe and vaporize the hell outta their lil sticky asses! 

dude, check out my grow if you get a chance. would love some input from an innovative gardener on your level  MY GROW


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## riddleme (Oct 7, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> gorgeous buds Riddle man!! i vote throw them bitches in a glass pipe and vaporize the hell outta their lil sticky asses!
> 
> dude, check out my grow if you get a chance. would love some input from an innovative gardener on your level  MY GROW


Lookin pretty good over there my friend, and looks like you got some good folks following it, I really don't have the time to hang over there but you can always PM if you have a question


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## Danielsgb (Oct 8, 2010)

Is this the best book about breeding?
*The Cannabis Breeder's Bible: The Definitive Guide to Marijuana Genetics, Cannabis Botany and Creating Strains for the Seed Market
*or do you recommend a different one? Getting Ed's new book too.
Daniels*
*


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Is this the best book about breeding?
> *The Cannabis Breeder's Bible: The Definitive Guide to Marijuana Genetics, Cannabis Botany and Creating Strains for the Seed Market
> *or do you recommend a different one? Getting Ed's new book too.
> Daniels*
> *


that is the book I have, RMH & FDD have it as well, it is the best book on breeding I have seen


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

*Lots of Bud Porn* 

you know you have a good problem when you have to tie your freakin buds up in week 5 cause they are falling over  I took pics with a pop can so you can see how big they are. Gonna be busy tomorrow so I figured I'd get these up tonight

Enjoy!


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

here are cropped closeups for your bud porn viewing enjoyment


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## rastadred22 (Oct 8, 2010)

wow! never dissappoint! those things are monsters! i cant believe ur getting colas that big using 800watts of cmh thats crazy! and that massive cola in the background on pic 8 is breath taking!


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## rastadred22 (Oct 8, 2010)

and those trichs are standing sooo tall!!


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> wow! never dissappoint! those things are monsters! i cant believe ur getting colas that big using 800watts of cmh thats crazy! and that massive cola in the background on pic 8 is breath taking!


I keep tellin ya it's not just the light, so many growers get stuck on the lights they don't dial the other elements in properly


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## rastadred22 (Oct 8, 2010)

yup! im slowly but surely dialin my cab in just got the heat dwn made a lil outake and some other stuff needs to be done...bur i cant wait to take what i learnt and apply it to my real garden state side! then i might b able to run with the big bois!!


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## Danielsgb (Oct 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> that is the book I have, RMH & FDD have it as well, it is the best book on breeding I have seen


All I had to do was see this and I hit 'place order'. 
So General RM3, I have Mel Frank's old well read bible, now these 2 coming. Is that kit the proper training manual to over-grow the cash crop commercial growers? I want the best meds I can grow myself. When can I add the SIGNED copy of yours to complete my set?
Those plants look just *great*. You have some *very* lucky people you are providing for.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> wow! never dissappoint! those things are monsters! i cant believe ur getting colas that big using 800watts of cmh thats crazy! and that massive cola in the background on pic 8 is breath taking!


the cola in pic 8 is actually 2 colas, it's the angle that makes it look like one, you can see em both in pic #'s 2 & 10


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> All I had to do was see this and I hit 'place order'.
> So General RM3, I have Mel Frank's old well read bible, now these 2 coming. Is that kit the proper training manual to over-grow the cash crop commercial growers? I want the best meds I can grow myself. When can I add the SIGNED copy of yours to complete my set?
> Those plants look just *great*. You have some *very* lucky people you are providing for.
> Daniels


Thank you, I know my patients love me  and once the book is finished???


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## WWShadow (Oct 8, 2010)

speaking of the book...
can we get a update on the fermentation chamber?


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## rastadred22 (Oct 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> the cola in pic 8 is actually 2 colas, it's the angle that makes it look like one, you can see em both in pic #'s 2 & 10


lofl they both still monsters though


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## gumball (Oct 8, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> speaking of the book...
> can we get a update on the fermentation chamber?


$100 says you dont get a reply on this one


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## WWShadow (Oct 8, 2010)

rofl, you could be right. last I read he was trying to slow it down. I was wondering if he accomplished it


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> speaking of the book...
> can we get a update on the fermentation chamber?


this last run is done, I managed to go 5 days instead of 4  so much for slowing it down, I actually learned a lot from this run. The ambient temp & humidity affect it and my patients GDP had hermied and gone to seed (clone only strain so he is stoked actually) it fermented differently can only guess that the hormone (chemical) changes from goiing to seed had something to do with it, it cured but the taste was not as strong? the 2 agent orange buds came thru great, trichs went to 40 to 50% amber. The little pop corn buds did not do as well, some even dried and got brittle, it definately needs moisture to do its thing. managed to save another 2 oz's of the popcorn  and they turned out great and got a bunch of grinder hash for RMH  I smoked some last night and it is very nice  prolly what I will do with popcorn from now on 

It would be nice if it was automatic and actually a friend and I are talking about programming a circuit to autodial it based on sensor readings, not sure it is the best way to go though? the bottom line is it has done it's thing and worked in every test (can't wait for my next harvest) also I rotated the piles on the shelves cause the bottom one was closer to the heat, next run I am raising the shelves so none are in the lower section, it's either that or rotate more often?


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

gumball said:


> $100 says you dont get a reply on this one


you lose


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> rofl, you could be right. last I read he was trying to slow it down. I was wondering if he accomplished it


one lousy day damnit LOL once the colder weather sets in I may be able to do better, but it will require much lower ambient temps, just have to keep playin with it


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## Illumination (Oct 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> here are cropped closeups for your bud porn viewing enjoyment


Truly beautiful there Teach...

Yep it is about the whole enviorment being right...But you gotta admit CMH is da bomb!! Triches galore

Namaste' Bro!!


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Truly beautiful there Teach...
> 
> Yep it is about the whole enviorment being right...But you gotta admit CMH is da bomb!! Triches galore
> 
> Namaste' Bro!!


let's just I am happy with my choice of lights


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## Danielsgb (Oct 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Thank you, I know my patients love me  and once the book is finished???


I'm a patient Man, so I'll be patiently waiting.
Here's a Pic of my drowning plant. I just updated with a bunch of pics to *Well Here Goes Again*
Daniels
View attachment 1201354


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## gumball (Oct 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> you lose


Not sure what he meant, but I actually understood him to be asking bout the chapter of the book regarding how to build the fermentation chamber, or how it works shall I say. I could be wrong though

That's some crazy color daniels, great picture too!


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## riddleme (Oct 8, 2010)

gumball said:


> Not sure what he meant, but I actually understood him to be asking bout the chapter of the book regarding how to build the fermentation chamber, or how it works shall I say. I could be wrong though


and I could be confused as well, but then I'm stoned 

perhaps he will enlighten us???

and that drowning victim is looking pretty good Daniels


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## gumball (Oct 8, 2010)

looks like its hanging to dry!


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## rastadred22 (Oct 8, 2010)

hell yea love it!


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## cgrizzle3 (Oct 8, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> I'm a patient Man, so I'll be patiently waiting.
> Here's a Pic of my drowning plant. I just updated with a bunch of pics to *Well Here Goes Again*
> Daniels
> View attachment 1201354


what do you mean by drowning plant? Your flushing?


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## rastadred22 (Oct 8, 2010)

read bac and u will see what we mean by drowning...its in the calling all noobs thread page 41 and i also just finished drowning my plant in the last coule pages in my link 'previous journal'


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## cgrizzle3 (Oct 8, 2010)

riddleme said:


> *Lots of Bud Porn*
> 
> you know you have a good problem when you have to tie your freakin buds up in week 5 cause they are falling over  I took pics with a pop can so you can see how big they are. Gonna be busy tomorrow so I figured I'd get these up tonight
> 
> Enjoy!


hey riddleme hows it going. I got a couple of questions if you dont mind answering them. First off, i was wondering, are them mostly indica or sativas, because mine are 6 weeks into flower and they look about the same but are heavy indicas. I was worried about them, i thought they looked a little behind. I will post pics tomarrow, and maybe you can tell me waht you think. Im doing hydro, but i would like to know, when do i know to start flushing? is there a way to tell when they are getting close to done, besides the trichomes? Most of myt plants have completely white hairs, but some have hairs turning. I havent started my flush, but i know i should do it ten days. Let me know what you think. Also, how many plants do you have, how tall are they, and how much do you think they will yield, apiece? that is also something else im trying to figure out. Thanks alot for your help, awesome grow journal btw...


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> hey riddleme hows it going. I got a couple of questions if you dont mind answering them. First off, i was wondering, are them mostly indica or sativas, because mine are 6 weeks into flower and they look about the same but are heavy indicas. I was worried about them, i thought they looked a little behind. I will post pics tomarrow, and maybe you can tell me waht you think. Im doing hydro, but i would like to know, when do i know to start flushing? is there a way to tell when they are getting close to done, besides the trichomes? Most of myt plants have completely white hairs, but some have hairs turning. I havent started my flush, but i know i should do it ten days. Let me know what you think. Also, how many plants do you have, how tall are they, and how much do you think they will yield, apiece? that is also something else im trying to figure out. Thanks alot for your help, awesome grow journal btw...


They are all crosses with both indica and sativa but are considered indica dominant, though this tilders plant is showing a more sativa pheno, (I call my Northern Lights Special, Tilders) the Northern Lights #1 is an afgani thai cross and the step child is a bigbud/ purple erkle cross

as for flushing you came to wrong guy, I don't flush, you can read my opinion in the Wow Riddle has a question thread, it is a great dission thread on the topic of flushing. In order for the plant (buds) to properly ferment it requires N therefore I am a keep em green (till the end) grower and I do not flush in the end, I do however flush every time I water 

there are 4 plants they are a bit over 5 feet tall (would have been 7 feet if I had not supercropped em) and I do not concern myself with yields, kinda like counting your eggs before they are hatched


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## bobhamm (Oct 9, 2010)

hey riddle, have you thought about trying to shorten the days? like make a 24 hour day into an 18 hour day? withe the spraying of far red light to speed up the switch to active flowering hormone you might be able to get away with 10 hour nights and then cut the day hour by a third to 8 hours... finsih a 12 week from seed in 8? just curious... saw somethign mentioned in one of your threads about the plant like people not being tied to a 24 hour day


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> hey riddle, have you thought about trying to shorten the days? like make a 24 hour day into an 18 hour day? withe the spraying of far red light to speed up the switch to active flowering hormone you might be able to get away with 10 hour nights and then cut the day hour by a third to 8 hours... finsih a 12 week from seed in 8? just curious... saw somethign mentioned in one of your threads about the plant like people not being tied to a 24 hour day


I have thought about it, read about it and discussed it, but nothing I would do as I am never in a hurry


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## bobhamm (Oct 9, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I have thought about it, read about it and discussed it, but nothing I would do as I am never in a hurry


I can understand that, do you think it would work though? I may be under the gun here in finishing what I have , it would not surprise me if it took 6 more weeks to finsih my 3 non-auto plants and if I could shave even a week or 10 days off that it might be worth trying


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> I can understand that, do you think it would work though? I may be under the gun here in finishing what I have , it would not surprise me if it took 6 more weeks to finsih my 3 non-auto plants and if I could shave even a week or 10 days off that it might be worth trying


I have read about folks doing this and they claim it works but does diminish yields, I would be more inclined to chop 10 days early and allow the buds to ferment now that I have seen them finish in the chamber


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## bobhamm (Oct 9, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I have read about folks doing this and they claim it works but does diminish yields, I would be more inclined to chop 10 days early and allow the buds to ferment now that I have seen them finish in the chamber


yeah I've been watching, assuming the trichs still ripen in fermenting, which I believe you have seen ? do you have a guess of how much they can ripen in fermenting? in terms of trich going from cloudy to amber? wiuld you guess they could go from say 5% amber to 50%? or not so much?


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> yeah I've been watching, assuming the trichs still ripen in fermenting, which I believe you have seen ? do you have a guess of how much they can ripen in fermenting? in terms of trich going from cloudy to amber? wiuld you guess they could go from say 5% amber to 50%? or not so much?


have been seeing 5 to 10 going to 40 to 50% pretty steadily in the chamber


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## bobhamm (Oct 9, 2010)

riddleme said:


> have been seeing 5 to 10 going to 40 to 50% pretty steadily in the chamber


really? thats awesome ... Ill keep watching your fermentation exercises ...calyxes aren't swelling in ferm are they? cant see how they would.


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> really? thats awesome ... Ill keep watching your fermentation exercises ...calyxes aren't swelling in ferm are they? cant see how they would.


no they unswell as they dry


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## gumball (Oct 9, 2010)

hey bobhamm, i have read from many to not shorten the whole day, but shorten the light cycle. so maybe 11/13, or 10/14. riddle is still correct that this will diminish yield. it could be a form of stress that will make them hermie, because your screwing with their light, and towards the end of their life. just my .02


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## bobhamm (Oct 9, 2010)

riddleme said:


> no they unswell as they dry


DOH!! ... sorry, not enough cofffee in the morning


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## gumball (Oct 9, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> DOH!! ... sorry, not enough cofffee in the morning


i didnt catch that at first, but LOL. dont we wish they swelled!!


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## bobhamm (Oct 9, 2010)

gumball said:


> hey bobhamm, i have read from many to not shorten the whole day, but shorten the light cycle. so maybe 11/13, or 10/14. riddle is still correct that this will diminish yield. it could be a form of stress that will make them hermie, because your screwing with their light, and towards the end of their life. just my .02


agreed on the yield, partly just curious in how far you could push them and I just may have to chop early and was wondering if it might speed up the flowering


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## gumball (Oct 9, 2010)

yes, i followed a grower named bagz who dropped to a 10 or 11 hour light length and shortened by what he thought was a week or 2. unless you know the genetics of the plant, and know it finishes at 8 weeks everytime, you really wont know if it will speed up the flowering. the stages of flowering/ripening happen quickly. but if you have to chop you have to chop. do as riddle does, drop the light 15 minutes a day until you get to 11/13. unless you dont mind chopping early and having hte heady high. if it is medicine and not recreational, you may really need a fully mature plant. i know the plants i harvested prematurely did give me more energy/motivation, but they didnt have the effects on the arthritis in my knees. the pain was diminished, but not like a fully ripened plant.


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## bobhamm (Oct 9, 2010)

gumball said:


> yes, i followed a grower named bagz who dropped to a 10 or 11 hour light length and shortened by what he thought was a week or 2. unless you know the genetics of the plant, and know it finishes at 8 weeks everytime, you really wont know if it will speed up the flowering. the stages of flowering/ripening happen quickly. but if you have to chop you have to chop. do as riddle does, drop the light 15 minutes a day until you get to 11/13. unless you dont mind chopping early and having hte heady high. if it is medicine and not recreational, you may really need a fully mature plant. i know the plants i harvested prematurely did give me more energy/motivation, but they didnt have the effects on the arthritis in my knees. the pain was diminished, but not like a fully ripened plant.


well its all medical for my wife(not that I dont take a hit now and then) and Im fairly sure she will do better with the more amberish trichs its a guess but borne out by the easy ryders we've tested at just cloudy making her paranoid(she has anxiety/panic attacks) so Id be more interested in very amber and less yield as opposed to less amber and more yield, we're in a non-mdeical state and have no "connections" so Im just flying by the seat of my pants with my selection and thoughts as to ambericity (amberiousness?  )


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## gumball (Oct 9, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> well its all medical for my wife(not that I dont take a hit now and then) and Im fairly sure she will do better with the more amberish trichs its a guess but borne out by the easy ryders we've tested at just cloudy making her paranoid(she has anxiety/panic attacks) so Id be more interested in very amber and less yield as opposed to less amber and more yield, we're in a non-mdeical state and have no "connections" so Im just flying by the seat of my pants with my selection and thoughts as to ambericity (amberiousness?  )


i understand you there. i have anxiety to, but i am able to cope with mine normally without cannabis. sometimes i get pretty bad, but normally im ok. i was just reading this thread the other day about anxiety https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/365900-need-help-high-cbd-strains.html. obviously different strains affect everyone differently. but it seems your right that the mostly amber will be good for anxiety. it also seems a good indica/sativa hybrid will be good for her. i think riddleme has his northern lights for PTSD, if i remember reading correctly. anxiety is one of the symptoms of PTSD, so may be something to look into. riddleme will be able to speak to that better of course.


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes my Tilders plant gives me much comfort 

here is something that you all may find interesting,,,,,



> *b. Effect of gland age on cannabinoid content*
> We also examined cannabinoid content of stalked gland by age to measure the major cannabinoid components in both a fiber and drug strain (Table 2). Glands, viewed under a microscope, can be classified according to their secretory phases from the color of their contents. Glands most active in secretion (mature) are translucent in appearance, aged glands are yellow in appearance and senescent glands are brown in color. Mature glands possessed the highest content of their major cannabinoid in both the fiber and drug strains. Senescent glands possessed low levels of cannabinoids. The concentration of some components, as CBD in the drug strains, may be so low that is was not detectable in our analysis; similarly, for THC and CBN in the fiber strain. It is unknown where the cannabinoids go during the aging process, but we suggest that it is possible they volatilize into the atmosphere along with the terpenes in glands, as noted later in this report. Nevertheless, this phenomenon of altered content in glands during aging is one that should be studied to gain a more complete understanding of the secretory process of cannabinoids in the cell.
> 
> 
> ...



taken from here,
http://www.hempreport.com/issues/17/malbody17.html

you would be wanting "aged" buds like I do ​


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## bobhamm (Oct 9, 2010)

yeah its interesting reading medical patients views and opinions...anyway, mostly I was concerned with speeding up flower, plus lets face it , most of us just like messing around with stuff to see what will happen... my answer today is that better to harvest early with lower percentage of amber and let it rinpen in fermentation... the fermentation chamber is a lot easier to move than 3 large plants , lighting etc, a fermentation chamber I can handle diy too, you just need to be able to control temp and humidity seperatley , right?


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> yeah its interesting reading medical patients views and opinions...anyway, mostly I was concerned with speeding up flower, plus lets face it , most of us just like messing around with stuff to see what will happen... my answer today is that better to harvest early with lower percentage of amber and let it rinpen in fermentation... the fermentation chamber is a lot easier to move than 3 large plants , lighting etc, a fermentation chamber I can handle diy too, you just need to be able to control temp and humidity seperatley , right?


that is essentially correct


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## bobhamm (Oct 9, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Yes my Tilders plant gives me much comfort
> 
> you would be wanting "aged" buds like I do


thanks for the link, yeah, aged is about what I think too, I was able to get a few different types(no names though) and did some experiments with her, then tried to judge her effect by how I would rate the high. which I am now so that doesnt make sense... anyway, thanks, as always you're a treasuretrove and a credit to the IT community...


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## Shrubs First (Oct 9, 2010)

Riddleme, everythings lookin good here, how you been? Still giving lessons?


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

Shrubs First said:


> Riddleme, everythings lookin good here, how you been? Still giving lessons?


Thank you my friend, yeppers still trying to educate the masses


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## cgrizzle3 (Oct 9, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Thank you my friend, yeppers still trying to educate the masses


 thank you for your help. You are one of the only people that have answered questions for me, and others. You seem very knowledgeable. If you dont mind me asking, how do i look at your other threads, im new to this site and dont really understand it fully...


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## Danielsgb (Oct 9, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> thank you for your help. You are one of the only people that have answered questions for me, and others. You seem very knowledgeable. If you dont mind me asking, how do i look at your other threads, im new to this site and dont really understand it fully...


The links in the signature has his tome's of wisdom. Like in red I Make it Rain, or CMH Club
Daniels


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> thank you for your help. You are one of the only people that have answered questions for me, and others. You seem very knowledgeable. If you dont mind me asking, how do i look at your other threads, im new to this site and dont really understand it fully...


well you can click on the links in my sig or you can click my name and view my profile which has links to to both my threads and my post


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## SensiStan (Oct 9, 2010)

Loving the work as always riddle  you seem to have developed quite a following in the last few months !! and this thread is enourmous already, respect as always teacher  if you want to see the effect of making it rain on AF's have a look at my thread haha its ridiculous !


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## smkinmouse (Oct 9, 2010)

hey there riddle im to to growing but have been subed to this thread for awhile and u rly seem to know ur plants, so i had a question does anyone know anything about the auto blueberry strain i jst got sprouts and was wondering wht to expect.


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## bigman4270 (Oct 9, 2010)

Loving the new Bud Porn. Tieing those colas up is definately a labor of love. 

Awesome as always my friend.

Big


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

smkinmouse said:


> hey there riddle im to to growing but have been subed to this thread for awhile and u rly seem to know ur plants, so i had a question does anyone know anything about the auto blueberry strain i jst got sprouts and was wondering wht to expect.


sorry have never done autos


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> Loving the work as always riddle  you seem to have developed quite a following in the last few months !! and this thread is enourmous already, respect as always teacher  if you want to see the effect of making it rain on AF's have a look at my thread haha its ridiculous !


still a lot of lurkers, would love to know who they are


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## ElectricPineapple (Oct 9, 2010)

yo im still here. just reading whatever wonderful knowledge you post


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## smkinmouse (Oct 9, 2010)

following the whole way man for sure


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

smkinmouse said:


> following the whole way man for sure


Welcome, don't be a stranger


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## whodatnation (Oct 9, 2010)

Im lurking around


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## riddleme (Oct 9, 2010)

whodatnation said:


> Im lurking around


cool, glad to have ya! and I know I keep saying it but it's more fun to know who is watchin  everyday I see the view count go up and I always just wonder?


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## The Snowman (Oct 9, 2010)

whodatnation said:


> Im lurking around


^^ this man has some crazy genetics LIKE FUCKING CRAZY hahha seriously though frosty fucking GOODNESS


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## cgrizzle3 (Oct 9, 2010)

I know that you do only dirt, and im doing half and half, but here is a picture of my grow. They are 6 weeks into budding, and are heavy indica's mostly. I do however have some Super Lemon Haze, and others in dirt, but i started them later and they are a lot smaller. I wrote you previously about me thinking my plants might be behind, i just would like your honest oppinion, what do you think? I am using 2 1000 watt HPS, and a 400 watt MH, ebb and grow, fox farm nutrients, cal mag, silica. I had somewhat of a light issue for the first couple days of budding, and at first i would work hours in my room, dark but with a green bulb. I then read that this wasnt good, so i stopped doing it. I keep my ph int he range fo 5.5-6.0 contantly. Are these normal size? Also, Since i think there behind, im scared to start flushing if their not ready. According to my jewelers loupe, most trich's are cloudy, only a couple amber here and there. Is there a way to tell without triches, when its getting close to done. I understand you dont flush, per say, but in hydro, i cant just do what you do with soil. Just let me know what you think, i really appreciate it. BTW, your plants are beautiful, i think your a genius when it comes to growing. Us noobs really appreciate your help. This is my first grow, and i am a caregiver for my aunt that has MS, and i want to provide her with the best quality medicine i can. so thanks again, Have a great day!


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## SensiStan (Oct 10, 2010)

smkinmouse said:


> hey there riddle im to to growing but have been subed to this thread for awhile and u rly seem to know ur plants, so i had a question does anyone know anything about the auto blueberry strain i jst got sprouts and was wondering wht to expect.


This lurkers here  my problem is im often too high to actually say anything intelligent riddle , and as the saying goes "rather everyone think you're stupid and not say anything, than to open your mouth and prove it " 

but as for you smkinmouse i grow autoflowers and iv been using some of riddle's techniques , if you have sprouts be ready to see signs of flowering in the next 2-3 weeks and then explosive bud growth for the next 5-6 weeks and it will probably taste very nice if its blueberry  AF's seem good at rapidly producing high grade weed for somebody on a short time scale


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## riddleme (Oct 10, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> I know that you do only dirt, and im doing half and half, but here is a picture of my grow. They are 6 weeks into budding, and are heavy indica's mostly. I do however have some Super Lemon Haze, and others in dirt, but i started them later and they are a lot smaller. I wrote you previously about me thinking my plants might be behind, i just would like your honest oppinion, what do you think? I am using 2 1000 watt HPS, and a 400 watt MH, ebb and grow, fox farm nutrients, cal mag, silica. I had somewhat of a light issue for the first couple days of budding, and at first i would work hours in my room, dark but with a green bulb. I then read that this wasnt good, so i stopped doing it. I keep my ph int he range fo 5.5-6.0 contantly. Are these normal size? Also, Since i think there behind, im scared to start flushing if their not ready. According to my jewelers loupe, most trich's are cloudy, only a couple amber here and there. Is there a way to tell without triches, when its getting close to done. I understand you dont flush, per say, but in hydro, i cant just do what you do with soil. Just let me know what you think, i really appreciate it. BTW, your plants are beautiful, i think your a genius when it comes to growing. Us noobs really appreciate your help. This is my first grow, and i am a caregiver for my aunt that has MS, and i want to provide her with the best quality medicine i can. so thanks again, Have a great day!


What is normal? I am pretty sure that most folks would say mine are not normal, there was a comment several post back that colas that size only happens outdoors (not completely true) but you get what I mean, where would you draw the "normal" line if it was up to you to decide? no two gardens are alike so you can not compare em.

Your plants look fine and you are doing a good job for a new grower, with each run you will learn more and each run gets better as this happens, it is all about learning to read the plants and then giveing them what they need

as for being done I wait for the pistils to change color and recede, I could care less about trich color (for me the more amber the better, I like a strong couchlock) but when the pistils recede it means the plant has given up trying and where I come from if she is still trying she is still making trichs. if you are not wanting a couchlock high then yeah you gotta watch the trichs and decide when to flush & chop based on the %'s of cloudy & amber, it all about where "you" want your high to be less amber = more trippy head high, more amber = more body stoned couchlock. My advice to new growers has always been to do a staggered harvest to learn where you like em???


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## smkinmouse (Oct 10, 2010)

thanks for the info man. rly i dnt know where i would be if i didnt have help from u guys thanks a lot.


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## xshooterx (Oct 10, 2010)

Hi Yall! 

Riddle, thanks for that trich color explanation. I didn't realize that trichs turning brown meant thc degrading to... cbd, cbn?

I finally got a response back from Hydrofarm about the spec sheet for the T-5 tubes I have. Been thinking that it would be similar to CMH, but without the IR (heat). Thought I might pop it up here for you to have a look.


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## riddleme (Oct 10, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Hi Yall!
> 
> Riddle, thanks for that trich color explanation. I didn't realize that trichs turning brown meant thc degrading to... cbd, cbn?
> 
> ...


not a bad spectrum at all, and yes similar to CMH in that the whole spectrum is there also a bit more blue than red, should work pretty good. I know a place to get T8's that have a similar spectrum as well, I think there was a member here that got em once I posted the link, but that was a long time ago


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## xshooterx (Oct 10, 2010)

Yeah, and it's cool! I would love to avoid creating any more heat than is necessary with lighting. Trying to be energy efficient and not have to use AC for cooling. Of course once I fire up the 1000w hps, things will start cooking lol. Actually, with Tilders in mind, I might try taking my first grow through flower with the T-5 fixture.


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## riddleme (Oct 10, 2010)

well the chamber was only empty for 2 days before some asked me if I would run theirs thru it, so now there is Maui Waui from G-13 in there, and it smells so good, had to put out some ona gel  the good news is the outside weather is finally looking like fall so maybe, just maybe I can actually slow this one down, it is only 64F in the house today (65 for a high outside) and it's raining. Gonna be nice to see what happens with the lower ambients, I know the garden is lovin it


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## Zink Man (Oct 10, 2010)

Wow I have not gotten on in a couple weeks and what a difference. The plants are looking amazing and this chamber seems to be the bomb. Just wanted to say its looking good teach


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## riddleme (Oct 10, 2010)

Zink Man said:


> Wow I have not gotten on in a couple weeks and what a difference. The plants are looking amazing and this chamber seems to be the bomb. Just wanted to say its looking good teach


why thank you, still tweakin the chamber but yeah it's pretty cool


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## gumball (Oct 10, 2010)

riddleme, in your opinion does the fermentation chamber produce more smell than a normal drying does? i think i remember you saying it stunk, but cant remember if it was about the chamber or the drowning. i know from daniels and rasta the drowning does increase smell. 

i have thought about it. i remember a larger scale grower once say that "wardrobe growers dont usually have a good cure, because they smoke it up before the cure is final". that made sense to me, FOR ME. i normally smoke a lot. my last harvest of 45 grams lasted me 35-40 days. but i was pulling from the curing jars the whole time. i am sure if i had not continued to smoke from the jars (I only pulled herb out when i burped) it would have had a better cure. but if the fermentation chamber could make 35 day cured herb in only 5-10, then wardrobe growers could have a better product for themselves without the wait.


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## riddleme (Oct 10, 2010)

gumball said:


> riddleme, in your opinion does the fermentation chamber produce more smell than a normal drying does? i think i remember you saying it stunk, but cant remember if it was about the chamber or the drowning. i know from daniels and rasta the drowning does increase smell.
> 
> i have thought about it. i remember a larger scale grower once say that "wardrobe growers dont usually have a good cure, because they smoke it up before the cure is final". that made sense to me, FOR ME. i normally smoke a lot. my last harvest of 45 grams lasted me 35-40 days. but i was pulling from the curing jars the whole time. i am sure if i had not continued to smoke from the jars (I only pulled herb out when i burped) it would have had a better cure. but if the fermentation chamber could make 35 day cured herb in only 5-10, then wardrobe growers could have a better product for themselves without the wait.


actually the smell has not been overpowering and has not reaked up the house, you only smell it when you are close to the actual chamber (close like a couple of feet) 

So far the stuff out of the chamber in 4 to 5 days is like stuff that has been in the jar for a week or two (regular way) of course I am jarring them once they come out of the chamber and yes they are still getting better (which is expected) I had Tilders in jars for 5 months (how long she lasted me) and it kept getting better. it is really cool though to smoke some after only a few days and have it be good (why folks are having me do theirs) so yes I think the chamber way of doing it is a breakthru of sorts that will benefit patients for sure, but still tweakin it to see if I can improve even more


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## gumball (Oct 10, 2010)

thanks riddleme


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## Shrubs First (Oct 12, 2010)

Lookin good riddle, I cant find the page that explains the chamber, would you mind shedding a little light?


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## riddleme (Oct 12, 2010)

Shrubs First said:


> Lookin good riddle, I cant find the page that explains the chamber, would you mind shedding a little light?


starts here (1st pics) then updates appear after that
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/347914-balls-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-29.html#post4690951


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## bobhamm (Oct 12, 2010)

hers a random question riddle.... remember that excerpt from Ed R. that a spray of far red light at dusk will switch the inactive for of the flowering hormone to the active for whereas with "normal" dusk it take 2 hours? well I have had occasion the last week or so (because of potential visitors) to ruen my cmh bulb off manually.... thinking about it just now I realized I like watching the fading glow from the bulb... then it occurred to me that it was cooling off and was probably putting out a decent amount of far red light as the bulb cooled down, I mean it pretty much goes red as it cools down... so in a way our indoor lights already give the plants a spray of far red light at "dusk" ... thoughts?


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## Shrubs First (Oct 12, 2010)

Cool man, sounds pretty convenient in the long run. I'd just be terrified of botritis if trying it in a larger scale.


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## reefacheefa (Oct 13, 2010)

damn Riddle bro, havent been around in a while, but didnt see any pics in the past couple pages. everything goin good?? wish you would check out my grow over at speedy's man. babes are looking lovely, but would be much appreciative of some pro input. many loves and wonderssssss


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## riddleme (Oct 13, 2010)

reefacheefa said:


> damn Riddle bro, havent been around in a while, but didnt see any pics in the past couple pages. everything goin good?? wish you would check out my grow over at speedy's man. babes are looking lovely, but would be much appreciative of some pro input. many loves and wonderssssss


yeah these days are spent tying buds up rather than taking pics 

I know everyone should have that problem


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## gumball (Oct 13, 2010)

so you have any guesses on your yield yet? i know for you it isnt about quantity, but quality, but you will obviously have both. i still stick with a full LB, or better since the extra 400 watt came in. may 18-20 oz's.


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## ElectricPineapple (Oct 14, 2010)

hes obviously going to yield big super quality FIRE nugs haha. but riddle, your making us wait too long haha. throw some pics up


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## gumball (Oct 14, 2010)

have you given us pics from the back side yet? i just thought about it, you probably have to squeeze back there as it is.


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## riddleme (Oct 14, 2010)

not many changes from last post, they are gettin bigger and heavier, have had to tie the biggest ones up as they were falling over, one of the pics is a back view (not easy to get) and the pic in the chamber is the finished maui waui, pics in the veg room after 1 week of 12/12 (yes I flipped em)


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## gumball (Oct 14, 2010)

Hey man, you got a problem. Your buds have stopped leaning towards the light and started leaning towards the ground. They must be smoking themselves stupid.


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## Illumination (Oct 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> not many changes from last post, they are gettin bigger and heavier, have had to tie the biggest ones up as they were falling over, one of the pics is a back view (not easy to get) and the pic in the chamber is the finished maui waui, pics in the veg room after 1 week of 12/12 (yes I flipped em)


Gonna have to come bum some since mine went belly up when I go to TSO!!

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Oct 14, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Gonna have to come bum some since mine went belly up when I go to TSO!!
> 
> Namaste'


will save you a trans christmas nug


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## rastadred22 (Oct 14, 2010)

damn! monster buds! looks great


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## maniacal420 (Oct 14, 2010)

Looks great Riddle, but what else can be expected from you. Seriously though, really awesome ladies. I've been checking in here and there and saw the posts on drowning. I decided to try it on 1 outdoor. I only did 5 days, but there is a noticeable difference from the other 2 plants. What is the optimal time? I read about waiting for the pot to float(like a witch,lol).Thanks


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## riddleme (Oct 14, 2010)

maniacal420 said:


> Looks great Riddle, but what else can be expected from you. Seriously though, really awesome ladies. I've been checking in here and there and saw the posts on drowning. I decided to try it on 1 outdoor. I only did 5 days, but there is a noticeable difference from the other 2 plants. What is the optimal time? I read about waiting for the pot to float(like a witch,lol).Thanks


I have had several reports that 12 days works good, I will be doing it here in a few weeks and will play with it


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## Danielsgb (Oct 14, 2010)

I got Ed Rosenthal's new book and the Breeders Bible today. Harvested the one I drown and pics are up. Gotta leave town so it'll be trimmed and in Jars when I get back in a week. Smoke report will be soon after.
Daniels


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## WWShadow (Oct 14, 2010)

the website says 55 -60 days flowering, so you're almost done. Based on how the plants look currently do you foresee any finishing early or going later than the 55 to 60 days? Or however long you had planned to flower initially?
I think you are gonna bust the yeild they suggest @ 125grams so X4 plants = 500g/28.5 = roughly 17.5oz so I'll guess 20oz's just for kicks & I think that may be low; if you don't lose any yield to mold etc (which I doubt) 25oz's at the very most, lol I' talkin' smack about yields & don't know squat about it. but I can use a calculator (sometimes). Those plants look just too good to be minimal yielding


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## dudeoflife (Oct 14, 2010)

Nice update. The NL is looking spot on.

What are you feeding 'em these days?


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## oldecrowe (Oct 15, 2010)

*Awesome Thread*
Just lurkin & learnin, Breaux. Damn fine work you're doing. I rain on my lil garden now and it loves me for it. Seems like reading the plants is the key to everything in a way and I've you to thank for really pointing that out with demonstrable knowledge. Thanks. 

And those "demon" buds a page or two back...? Well I'd love to excorcise those nuggets of inhuman lust for ya!


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## oldecrowe (Oct 15, 2010)

Once more, engrossed in one of your threads, I find I am up WAY past this olde bird's bedtime! G'nite


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## gumball (Oct 15, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> the website says 55 -60 days flowering, so you're almost done. Based on how the plants look currently do you foresee any finishing early or going later than the 55 to 60 days? Or however long you had planned to flower initially?
> I think you are gonna bust the yeild they suggest @ 125grams so X4 plants = 500g/28.5 = roughly 17.5oz so I'll guess 20oz's just for kicks & I think that may be low; if you don't lose any yield to mold etc (which I doubt) 25oz's at the very most, lol I' talkin' smack about yields & don't know squat about it. but I can use a calculator (sometimes). Those plants look just too good to be minimal yielding


 
LOL, (yeah sometimes)!! i am with you though, I say 18-20 oz. he's easy got a pound. he aint entertaining the guessing though. i think he's worried he wont have room in the fermentation chamber and is gonna have drop a few hundred bucks on building another one!! that would be my worry, plus i'd have to get approval on the fund requisition from the wife!!! 

i am getting curious on the popcorn. i know riddleme stated early on something like he wasnt worried about light getting into the lower canopy, and actually wanted it shaded off. well that you got riddleme,so i hope thats what you said!!! his popcorn nugs will be like my little cola's!!


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## riddleme (Oct 15, 2010)

dudeoflife said:


> Nice update. The NL is looking spot on.
> 
> What are you feeding 'em these days?


the 20-10-20 Peat Lite Special, just like I said I would


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## riddleme (Oct 15, 2010)

oldecrowe said:


> *Awesome Thread*
> Just lurkin & learnin, Breaux. Damn fine work you're doing. I rain on my lil garden now and it loves me for it. Seems like reading the plants is the key to everything in a way and I've you to thank for really pointing that out with demonstrable knowledge. Thanks.
> 
> And those "demon" buds a page or two back...? Well I'd love to excorcise those nuggets of inhuman lust for ya!


Welcome, glad we're keepin ya up


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## riddleme (Oct 15, 2010)

gumball said:


> LOL, (yeah sometimes)!! i am with you though, I say 18-20 oz. he's easy got a pound. he aint entertaining the guessing though. i think he's worried he wont have room in the fermentation chamber and is gonna have drop a few hundred bucks on building another one!! that would be my worry, plus i'd have to get approval on the fund requisition from the wife!!!
> 
> i am getting curious on the popcorn. i know riddleme stated early on something like he wasnt worried about light getting into the lower canopy, and actually wanted it shaded off. well that you got riddleme,so i hope thats what you said!!! his popcorn nugs will be like my little cola's!!


Yeah not ever concerned about yield, never count your chickens before they hatch 
and most of the popcorns are like bic lighter sized, I 'll get some pics next update


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## gumball (Oct 15, 2010)

I know your not concerned with yield, shoot people are throwing their buds at you to put in your chamber, so I am sure you have a consortium of folks who sort of smoke together, share, something like that. Just a fun guessing game is all. I mean I wouldn't want guesses on my PC grow because due to scale it will be a small yield, and I would get low guesses from some which may discourage me. 

You may not want to count your chickens before they hAtch, but you have to be honest with yourself that 10-20 percent of your chickens may not hatch.


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## riddleme (Oct 15, 2010)

gumball said:


> I know your not concerned with yield, shoot people are throwing their buds at you to put in your chamber, so I am sure you have a consortium of folks who sort of smoke together, share, something like that. Just a fun guessing game is all. I mean I wouldn't want guesses on my PC grow because due to scale it will be a small yield, and I would get low guesses from some which may discourage me.
> 
> You may not want to count your chickens before they hAtch, but you have to be honest with yourself that 10-20 percent of your chickens may not hatch.


You guys are welcome to guess and yes there are several folks that I share with  I am always honest with myself, hell some of the chickens will be roosters


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## riddleme (Oct 15, 2010)

The Maui Waui that just finished in the chamber was treated very differently but still did not slow down, it finished in 4 days, delivered yesterday I got a call last night with a thanks this batch is perfect  taste, burn and high all spot on (I did not taste it) so 5 runs with the chamber that have all been a success in terms of a fast cure 

Demon bud update, the first run has now spent some time in the jars (curing the old fashion way) and these buds are truely evil. they have literally put 3 people on the floor with one hit and I mean they drop like they have been shot, I am now telling folks to sit down first


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## kingofqueen (Oct 15, 2010)

Sounds tasty RM ! I love properly cured bud nothing like it . You might have to sell me a sample ! LOL . I,m working on a drying chamber now .My second grow is flowering now and I want a good dry / cure this time . First crop did okay messed up drying it though got in a hurry to start my second run . This time I,m doing my homework and hope to turn out better this time.


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## RastaMonsta (Oct 15, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Welcome, glad we're keepin ya up


yooo sup riddle
is the peat lite working better than the dynamic duo? how are you using it, veg + bloom?


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## RastaMonsta (Oct 15, 2010)

riddleme said:


> The Maui Waui that just finished in the chamber was treated very differently but still did not slow down, it finished in 4 days, delivered yesterday I got a call last night with a thanks this batch is perfect  taste, burn and high all spot on (I did not taste it) so 5 runs with the chamber that have all been a success in terms of a fast cure
> 
> Demon bud update, the first run has now spent some time in the jars (curing the old fashion way) and these buds are truely evil. *they have literally put 3 people on the floor with one hit and I mean they drop like they have been shot*, I am now telling folks to sit down first


lmao wtf, i need some of that in my life.


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## riddleme (Oct 15, 2010)

RastaMonsta said:


> yooo sup riddle
> is the peat lite working better than the dynamic duo? how are you using it, veg + bloom?


The Peat Lite has micro nutes that the allpurpose & bloom do not have because it is designed for use in peat based mediums and so far it is working out great


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## riddleme (Oct 15, 2010)

RastaMonsta said:


> lmao wtf, i need some of that in my life.


yeah it takes 4 hits to do it to me but my tolerance is obviously higher, but it has been fun watching others sample it


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## Rocky Mountain High (Oct 15, 2010)

Nice job there RM3, the garden looks great. Will be good when I have a chance to come by for another visit. Almost done with harvest, almost.

Thanks again for everything, you're knowledge, help and research has been invaluable to me and my garden. Much appreciated brother.


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## riddleme (Oct 15, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Nice job there RM3, the garden looks great. Will be good when I have a chance to come by for another visit. Almost done with harvest, almost.
> 
> Thanks again for everything, you're knowledge, help and research has been invaluable to me and my garden. Much appreciated brother.


You my friend are very very welcome, your contributions to my chamber experiments have helped me a great deal but your friendship is worth way more, I love our visits and talks! It is so cool to be able to share and discuss this little hobby of ours I am so happy to be able to see these changes taking place in the road toward full legalized herb. You know I love ya brother, have found many truely wonderful friends here and I truely enjoy my time at RIU as a result. I do hope that I get to meet all of you in person someday


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## ElectricPineapple (Oct 15, 2010)

riddle, it wotn be long before i have you down to my garden to check it out. i just have to get it back up in running. im trying to order seeds ,but they dont like my card haha.


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## gumball (Oct 16, 2010)

we love you too riddleme!!


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## bigman4270 (Oct 16, 2010)

gumball said:


> we love you too riddleme!!


I ditto that GB. Hope to meet some of you guys in the future.

Big


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## riddleme (Oct 16, 2010)

I know a lot of you wake up to my updates and I just posted pics so nothing terribly new to show. More string as there are more buds tied up, yeah my bitches are totally into bondage (but are clueless on disipline) I did the bic lighter thing like I said and got some of the popcorn, a few more views of the light and then there is the yard stick, I laid the bic lighter across the biggest cola and though it is hard to see the yardstick shows this cola is 15 inches long (tall) and 5 inches wide (F-ing thing is huge) remembering we are in the middle of the 6th week of flowering.

Gonna make it rain again today otherwise not much to do as we coast to the finish line 

Got a fellow grower/caregiver bringing me some of those $3000 plants to run thru the chamber, yeah it's the BC Seeds Infinate, (I believe) he wants it to be all it can be and well I'm simply looking forward to seeing a $3000 bud  I will give you a smoke report on it once it is finished


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## bobhamm (Oct 16, 2010)

They sure are a pretty plant, yours in specific and mj in general, beautiful so far!


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## Illumination (Oct 16, 2010)

hell yeah Teach!!! 

Props to you bro!!

Namaste'


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## rastadred22 (Oct 16, 2010)

lookin good man alot of those popcorn nuggs are bigger than most ppls colas lofl...love it! btw do u play guitar? i kno that was rondom lol


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## riddleme (Oct 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> lookin good man alot of those popcorn nuggs are bigger than most ppls colas lofl...love it! btw do u play guitar? i kno that was rondom lol


yes I do play guitar


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## rastadred22 (Oct 16, 2010)

lol thought so i do aswell..i saw the blood blister on ur finger right wur i used to get mines...said thats gotta b from guitar!


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## riddleme (Oct 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> lol thought so i do aswell..i saw the blood blister on ur finger right wur i used to get mines...said thats gotta b from guitar!


yeppers, had 2 of em but one peeled yesterday


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## rastadred22 (Oct 16, 2010)

lol how long u been playin for and what do u play?


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## riddleme (Oct 16, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> lol how long u been playin for and what do u play?


There is a pic of my setup in this thread somewhere, and towards the begining I shared 2 songs I wrote
I play a BC Rich Warlock and have a Line6 SpiderJam amp. Mostly dabble in Rock, Metal & Blues


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## rastadred22 (Oct 16, 2010)

oh yeah tht system with the two huge speakers? i think i did see tht


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## xshooterx (Oct 17, 2010)

You are rockin Riddle! Hard to think of those lovely ladies a weeds. I would be whispering sweetness to em... hit me, kick me, make me write bad checks, lol.


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## riddleme (Oct 17, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> You are rockin Riddle! Hard to think of those lovely ladies a weeds. I would be whispering sweetness to em... hit me, kick me, make me write bad checks, lol.


My all time favorite line to describe a beatiful woman is,,,,,,,

I would lay 10 miles of phoneline across death valley just to hear her fart over the phone


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## riddleme (Oct 17, 2010)

cropped closeups of the purple headed step child


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## Illumination (Oct 17, 2010)

riddleme said:


> cropped closeups of the purple headed step child


Chiefs looking good too!

Triche city!

Namaste'


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## rastadred22 (Oct 17, 2010)

lookin real good! lol nd thats just the step child~


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## riddleme (Oct 17, 2010)

it is a Coffin Case and my Warlock loves it, I have always wanted one but never got it cause i did not need it,,,,,,,yesterday I went and got one 

and all I can say is thank you RMH !!!


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## RastaMonsta (Oct 17, 2010)

what do you mean by $3000 bud? how much bud is it for $3000?


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## riddleme (Oct 17, 2010)

RastaMonsta said:


> what do you mean by $3000 bud? how much bud is it for $3000?


Well the BC Seeds web site is gone so the fun has stopped but,,,,, the story goes that he created a strain that treated a disease better than the drug that was being used for it and the pharm companies paid him 1.5 million dollars to kill it. In my humble opinion it was like the carborator that got 100 miles per gallon myth but the seeds were very high priced, the strain Infinite Euphoria was $3000 for 10 seeds and I have a friend that actually bought them and has now grown it, it will be the next bud run thru the chamber,,,,I will be giving a smoke report


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## xshooterx (Oct 17, 2010)

Ok Riddle, I'll bite. How you gonna keep your Warlock from sloshin around in that case?


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## riddleme (Oct 17, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> Ok Riddle, I'll bite. How you gonna keep your Warlock from sloshin around in that case?


the diamond tucked red velvet foam padding will hold it 

it is a case made for a bass guitar true but it is the only Coffin Case that will hold a Warlock because of the widows peak head, they will not fit in a regular guitar case, I have had the guitar for many years but have never had a case, I never take it anywhere so I did not need one, I just wanted one and I wanted the Coffin Case cause it is cool


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## xshooterx (Oct 17, 2010)

Very cool! =)


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## pkp134 (Oct 17, 2010)

i want a coffin case for my violin!


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## rastadred22 (Oct 17, 2010)

i got a ghetto case with red velvet for my acoustics..def. not as good or as exspensive as that one id love to rest my baby in there! and if it moves around its noffin a few rolled tshirts cant fix


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## maniacal420 (Oct 17, 2010)

Is that the coffin Grandpa from the Munsters slept in? lol


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## riddleme (Oct 19, 2010)

not much to report here, we are coasting to the finish line. I had to tie a few more buds up, they just keep getting heavier  and I have switched the light cycle to 13/11 this to give a final stretch boost  Did a proper flush last saturday, ran 20 gallons thru each pot then gave em a double dose feeding which did burn a few leaf tips but insures they have everything they need to finish 

I am thinking about taking a few buds and running them thru the chamber to see where they are at? may do it later this week


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## gumball (Oct 19, 2010)

Sounds good riddleme! I think it is a great idea to harvest a couple buds now and run through the magical chamber!! But if I may suggest, do a couple of buds through the chamber and a couple the old fashion way of dry, jar cure and burp and a couple through the chamber. I know it would take longer to sample for a difference, but it would really give you, and us, a better idea of how well the chamber works. Can't wait for the next pic update!


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## cindergrow (Oct 19, 2010)

riddleme said:


> still a lot of lurkers, would love to know who they are


 I have been a hardcore lurker in many of your threads. Tons of great info, much of which has been implemented. CMH is next and maybe coco. I'm trying not to change too much at once. I get confused quite easily.


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## riddleme (Oct 19, 2010)

gumball said:


> Sounds good riddleme! I think it is a great idea to harvest a couple buds now and run through the magical chamber!! But if I may suggest, do a couple of buds through the chamber and a couple *the old fashion way* of dry, jar cure and burp and a couple through the chamber. I know it would take longer to sample for a difference, but it would really give you, and us, a better idea of how well the chamber works. Can't wait for the next pic update!


IMO that would be a waste of potential great bud


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## riddleme (Oct 19, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> I have been a hardcore lurker in many of your threads. Tons of great info, much of which has been implemented. CMH is next and maybe coco. I'm trying not to change too much at once. I get confused quite easily.


welcome glad to have ya


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## rastadred22 (Oct 19, 2010)

riddleme said:


> IMO that would be a waste of potential great bud


i agree as well!! i cant wait to see this yeild man...noffin but greatness...i love how ur problems now are heavy buds lol u think they be done in 3weeks? including the drown? btw u wur 100%right on my plant being root bound...they had circled the bottom and started there way bac up...i broke up the root ball and transplanted to a pot like 3-5times bigger once again thank u!


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## riddleme (Oct 19, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> i agree as well!! i cant wait to see this yeild man...noffin but greatness...i love how ur problems now are heavy buds lol u think they be done in 3weeks? including the drown? btw u wur 100%right on my plant being root bound...they had circled the bottom and started there way bac up...i broke up the root ball and transplanted to a pot like 3-5times bigger once again thank u!


Your very welcome, I would have answered your last question too but your PM box was full


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## riddleme (Oct 19, 2010)

riddleme said:


> IMO that would be a waste of potential great bud


got to thinkin about it and the compare part might better be drowned and not drowned


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## bobhamm (Oct 19, 2010)

so you are estimating 3 weeks till chop?


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## riddleme (Oct 19, 2010)

bobhamm said:


> so you are estimating 3 weeks till chop?


they are 8 week strains,,,,supposedly??? but I won't chop em till they are done

2 to 3 weeks is lookin about right from what I am seein 

if I stick some in the chamber early they will be little side buds


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## gumball (Oct 19, 2010)

riddleme said:


> IMO that would be a waste of potential great bud


Oh, I thought you meant something like a half ounce. So my thought was to split that and do a qtr in the chamber and a qtr ole fashioned. 

Don't want to waste any bud


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## rastadred22 (Oct 19, 2010)

no hes saying the old fashion way is inferior to the chamber so it dont make sense to do it that way itll almost be a waist seein as the chamber is way better...and not to mention faster (correct me if im wrong)


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## rastadred22 (Oct 19, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Your very welcome, I would have answered your last question too but your PM box was full


i emptied my box sorry im a slacker wen it comes to my pm box..hit me up


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## gumball (Oct 19, 2010)

Oh, I understood both sides! I was coming from the direction that it would prove by experiment that his chamber bud is better than his old fashion bud. You know, to the growers who are skeptics. I know there are a few lurking who are skeptical. Even I am skeptical of putting one of these chambers together and coming home to ruined bud.


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## gumball (Oct 19, 2010)

And if it turned out that inferior could you not run them through the chamber and they turn out better?


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## riddleme (Oct 19, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> no hes saying the old fashion way is inferior to the chamber so it dont make sense to do it that way itll almost be a waist seein as the chamber is way better...and not to mention faster (correct me if im wrong)


Exactly,,,,,(you would be right 



rastadred22 said:


> i emptied my box sorry im a slacker wen it comes to my pm box..hit me up


wil do



gumball said:


> Oh, I understood both sides! I was coming from the direction that it would prove by experiment that his chamber bud is better than his old fashion bud. You know, to the growers who are skeptics. I know there are a few lurking who are skeptical. Even I am skeptical of putting one of these chambers together and coming home to ruined bud.


I invite the skeptics (as you well know) and until I did it I had no idea what to expect, now having run several thru it with the same results (no matter what I change) I am a true believer in the power of the chamber



gumball said:


> And if it turned out that inferior could you not run them through the chamber and they turn out better?


No, once dried they would not be able to ferment


----------



## Rocky Mountain High (Oct 19, 2010)

Right on RM3, I'm very happy to give back to someone who has given so much to me. You are the man, brother, much love.


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## WWShadow (Oct 19, 2010)

Riddle, You haven't had any "drowned" bud to run through the chamber yet have you? will it go quicker or same time... hmmm....


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## rastadred22 (Oct 19, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> Riddle, You haven't had any "drowned" bud to run through the chamber yet have you? will it go quicker or same time... hmmm....


id prolly say no difference in time becuase it ferments as it dries and in 4days itll be dry so itll b done just alot futher along in the fermentation proccess


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## riddleme (Oct 19, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> Riddle, You haven't had any "drowned" bud to run through the chamber yet have you? will it go quicker or same time... hmmm....


No , not yet but will be doing my harvest that way so we will find out the answer to your question?


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## riddleme (Oct 20, 2010)

put several buds in the chamber, 2 from tilders, 2 from the step child and several from the #1's these are all outside lower branches, mostly popcorn but a few good sized, now we will see what happens, these would technically be chopped 2 weeks early


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## rastadred22 (Oct 20, 2010)

lookin good! cant wai to ssee the whole grden in there!


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## Illumination (Oct 20, 2010)

riddleme said:


> put several buds in the chamber, 2 from tilders, 2 from the step child and several from the #1's these are all outside lower branches, mostly popcorn but a few good sized, now we will see what happens, these would technically be chopped 2 weeks early



Cool....u gonna need help with all that Teach!

Namaste'


----------



## whodatnation (Oct 20, 2010)

Im still lurking and enjoying your work riddle 

Illumination how about them saints


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## Illumination (Oct 20, 2010)

whodatnation said:


> Im still lurking and enjoying your work riddle
> 
> Illumination how about them saints


*Who DAT!*

*GEAUX SAINTS*

Namaste'


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## Shrubs First (Oct 20, 2010)

Saints ruin my vikings day it seems, hopefully favre can pull thru this time!


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## Illumination (Oct 20, 2010)

Shrubs First said:


> Saints ruin my vikings day it seems, hopefully favre can pull thru this time!


Is the only vikings game that I am not pulling for Farve....but...New Orleans Saints Baby!!!

Namaste'


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## xshooterx (Oct 23, 2010)

Been real quiet around here... is it something I said? Y'all move and not tell me? Riddle, did that bud you cured knock your dick in the dirt? Can't find your computer? =) lol


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## bigman4270 (Oct 23, 2010)

He smoked that bud and ain't woke up yet! LOL


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## kingofqueen (Oct 23, 2010)

Found me some Jacks !View attachment 1229002


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## bobhamm (Oct 24, 2010)

its just that quiet time in a grow...things are pretty dialed in and flowering is happening...now just wait for the ripening, sit back...


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## riddleme (Oct 24, 2010)

Sorry everyone, I have been fairly busy  the buds from my garden are done, still having issues with popcorn buds, they simply get too dry before the bigger buds finish, so gonna have to do something different with em?
The high tells me that I have a few more weeks to go though the high is spectacular  it was mostly a head high, one of my patients reported that it had a sweet taste? I did not notice it
I ordered a new camera last week should get delivered tomorrow so new pics once it's here, it is a Samsung HZ50W got a $100 off coupon in my email box and decided to go for it as I want the best pics I can get for the book
will update with pics tuesday, which will be the official end of week 7 

*GO CHIEFS *


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## riddleme (Oct 25, 2010)

these are the 1st pics I have taken and these were in auto mode, need to read the book and play with it but this camera is so the bomb, exactly what I've been looking for and yes you can see the trichs and even the amber in them 

Enjoy the porn, will take more as I learn the camera


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## kingofqueen (Oct 25, 2010)

Wow those pics are great !


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## xivex (Oct 25, 2010)

OMG those pics are delicious looking! Someday I can only hope to have such beautiful plants! 

<---Jealous!!


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## rastadred22 (Oct 25, 2010)

wow looks hgood man love the new cam


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## Rocky Mountain High (Oct 25, 2010)

I love the new camera you got too ! Nice pics brother


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## maniacal420 (Oct 25, 2010)

Those pics are amazing to say the least. It doesn't hurt to have such sweet plants to snap, either. How much was it if you don't mind?


----------



## riddleme (Oct 25, 2010)

maniacal420 said:


> Those pics are amazing to say the least. It doesn't hurt to have such sweet plants to snap, either. How much was it if you don't mind?


got it for $255 (which was total including shipping) it normally goes for $349, it is a Samsung HZ50W


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## maniacal420 (Oct 25, 2010)

I assume that's with the $100 off you had, correct? Still sounds like a good deal and I'm sure you did the research. Thanks RM.


----------



## riddleme (Oct 25, 2010)

maniacal420 said:


> I assume that's with the $100 off you had, correct? Still sounds like a good deal and I'm sure you did the research. Thanks RM.


Yeah got the $100 off coupon in an email, got it from TigerDirect.com but the sale ended on the 23rd (I get a lot from them and get emails everyday) 

it also does video 

waiting for the battery to fully charge now, those pics were taken off a 10 minute charge


----------



## riddleme (Oct 25, 2010)

with it to see what it will do? these were all taken in what they call smart mode where it does everything automatically, I am impressed since this is the pics for dummies setting 

I'm reading the book but it will take awhile (120 pages) and damn this thing does a lot, even has a fireworks scene built in (yes I will take a bud with fireworks once I figure it out) 

put a ruler in there so you can see the progress (even did a lower bud shot) lots of string, as they are most all tied up (everyday they want to fall over) they are all getting heavy 

Enjoy the pics


----------



## Dr. Nuggett (Oct 25, 2010)

*I was going to ask you when I first started reading the post if you got that from TigerDirect. I to get all the emails, they are by far the best place I have found to get good deals and fast shipping. *

*Yea I&#8217;m still lurking back here in the shadows. Also I still think you are doing a wonderful job with the teaching. This has been a great **CMH** grow which caught my eye. The LADIES are really looking fabulous. *

*I&#8217;m just wondering if you are still using the IR heater, it hasn&#8217;t been mentioned lately. I know this started out as a experiment and was wondering if you had an opinion yet on the results as to how much difference it made in your grow.*

*Again very nice grow and thread, I am Honored to have stumbled across it. I have also read some of your other threads and they are very knowledgeable. Everyone here I included appreciated all the hard work and research you put into your threads. I have learned over the years that you never know enough. Again thanks for letting ride along with you and I look forward to the full smoke report. Bountiful Nuggets to you. *


----------



## riddleme (Oct 25, 2010)

Dr. Nuggett said:


> *I was going to ask you when I first started reading the post if you got that from TigerDirect. I to get all the emails, they are by far the best place I have found to get good deals and fast shipping. *
> 
> *Yea I&#8217;m still lurking back here in the shadows. Also I still think you are doing a wonderful job with the teaching. This has been a great **CMH** grow which caught my eye. The LADIES are really looking fabulous. *
> 
> ...


Welcome to the thread and glad you are enjoying it 
I am still using the IR heater but it mostly only runs in the morning when the temps are low, the brunt of the experiment will finish once these are done as these bitches got way out of hand because I let em go (wanted folks to see what happens when you rain in veg) next round will be more in control and the canopy will be more inline with the heater  so will finish the details of the IR experiment then


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## Danielsgb (Oct 25, 2010)

Bad ass RM3. I got the smoke report up for the one I drown in* Well Here Goes Again
Daniels
*


----------



## riddleme (Oct 25, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> Bad ass RM3. I got the smoke report up for the one I drown in* Well Here Goes Again
> Daniels
> *


very nice, yet another positive report, can't wait to drown mine


----------



## xshooterx (Oct 25, 2010)

Well Riddle, you are def a guy who dazzles with brilliance as opposed to baffle with bullshit. Great pics and plants! Them girls are lookin real juicy.


----------



## rastadred22 (Oct 26, 2010)

wow man monster buds! pic 25 is my fav! fat buds everywur!! looks great!!


----------



## bigman4270 (Oct 28, 2010)

Quite spamming the thread with your ad's!


----------



## gumball (Oct 28, 2010)

Yeah, I reported that person when logged in this morning! Now his post is gone, good ridden!


----------



## bigman4270 (Oct 28, 2010)

I looked at his posts and they were all the same thing in 15 different threads.


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## Danielsgb (Oct 28, 2010)

OK RiddleMe, Trying the drowning in a vs.'s experiment with Bush W.'s Twins. Jenna is getting the drowning on the right. Barbara got dried out when I had to leave for a week. 62 days flowering so 5 to 7 more and we'll see.
Daniels


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## xivex (Oct 28, 2010)

Congrat Daniels! Nice looking ladies!


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## gumball (Oct 28, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> OK RiddleMe, Trying the drowning in a vs.'s experiment with Bush W.'s Twins. Jenna is getting the drowning on the right. Barbara got dried out when I had to leave for a week. 62 days flowering so 5 to 7 more and we'll see.
> Daniels


whats your plan of attack to drown Jenna, they both staying in the case for this, right? you could probably just use that container and set Barb outside of it. you got bunches'O'room left in there.


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## riddleme (Oct 28, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> OK RiddleMe, Trying the drowning in a vs.'s experiment with Bush W.'s Twins. Jenna is getting the drowning on the right. Barbara got dried out when I had to leave for a week. 62 days flowering so 5 to 7 more and we'll see.
> Daniels


looking forward to seeing how it turns out


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## Danielsgb (Oct 28, 2010)

gumball said:


> whats your plan of attack to drown Jenna, they both staying in the case for this, right? you could probably just use that container and set Barb outside of it. you got bunches'O'room left in there.


I switched the bottom cup from one with Tape and holes to drain, for a normal cup then added water to soil top.
Daniels


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## Danielsgb (Oct 29, 2010)

This shows it better. No O2 for those roots.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Oct 30, 2010)

not much new going on, I have done some re-arranging and hung several more strings to hold up heavy buds. I have taken lots of pics as I have been playing with the new camera, includes some flash pics, I like these cause of how it lights the buds up  we're commin up to week 8 but I don't think these are gonna finish in 8 weeks, lookin at em this morning I would say 2 more weeks for sure, there is a lot of new growth but the calaxes are startin to fatten up red pistils at around 50% trichs are cloudy, I may be doing a staggered harvest considering strain differences? oh yeah and the veg room is full of bud sites 

PS, for everyones info the movable white panel in the back is exactly 6 foot tall


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## riddleme (Oct 30, 2010)

here are the flash pics


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## gumball (Oct 30, 2010)

it would be funny if they were all pushed together, it would look like one big hedge of bud!!! make hedge sculptures and shit!!!


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## riddleme (Oct 30, 2010)

gumball said:


> it would be funny if they were all pushed together, it would look like one big hedge of bud!!! make hedge sculptures and shit!!!


honestly the pics do not do them justice they are actually incredible in person


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## gumball (Oct 30, 2010)

yeah, there was one "row" of bud I seen which really resembled a hedge gave me the thought. it looked about 12 inches across and 8 or so inches around. massive


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Oct 30, 2010)

Did I read a while back that you kept up the veg nutes? Your fan leaves are not dying at all.


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## riddleme (Oct 30, 2010)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> Did I read a while back that you kept up the veg nutes? Your fan leaves are not dying at all.


I am a keep em green grower, there are several reasons for this, but the most important is that the fermentation process to deliver the taste and high that we all strive for requires N to work properly and in this grow I am only using veg nutes, a 20-10-20 to prove a point, much like I did with 97 watts of light in my last grow  so far it is going just as planned


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## riddleme (Oct 31, 2010)

Busy Day in the Garden Today

was in there for several hours, did a lot of work took a lot of pics, started 2 new experiments and will update with side by side pics next saturday  gonna be a slow week as I count this thing down 

did take all the lower pop corn branches and put em in the chamber (technically this would be a 3rd experiment) gonna see if I can get some pop corns to finish properly 

 *GO CHIEFS*


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## Dr. Nuggett (Nov 1, 2010)

*Awesome buds RiddleMe. Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong but some of them look to be about 12&#8221; to 14&#8221; long and 4&#8221; thick. Am I close? Again very very nice.*


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## riddleme (Nov 1, 2010)

yes you are  the biggest is 15 X 5 most of them are 10 to 12 inches (I did pics with a yard stick several post back) 

and thank you


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## gumball (Nov 1, 2010)

How is your pre-harvest cure going, with the bud you took from your grow?


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## riddleme (Nov 1, 2010)

gumball said:


> How is your pre-harvest cure going, with the bud you took from your grow?


well I did a peleminary smoke report after they came out of the chamber, they are curing nicely in jars now, it was a small pluck so only about 1/8th (though I have not wieghed it) I may try em again in a week or so to see if they have gotten better (which I expect by the smell) and the stuff that is in the chamber now should come out in a few days ?


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## SensiStan (Nov 1, 2010)

well i just did some catching up ..... WOW , how theyve grown  all i could do was smile and think about how much i love seein all the stuff uv taught in action and working wonders ! GO RM u the man im gna be selling container loads of ur books to the uk market !


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## cindergrow (Nov 1, 2010)

Beautiful plants. Can't wait to see what the total yield is per plant. Do you feel that the buds are as dense as other grows under non-cmh. Again, lovin the results. 
How fitting that around Halloween you have Monster Buds.


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## riddleme (Nov 1, 2010)

SensiStan said:


> well i just did some catching up ..... WOW , how theyve grown  all i could do was smile and think about how much i love seein all the stuff uv taught in action and working wonders ! GO RM u the man im gna be selling container loads of ur books to the uk market !


Thank you very much, glad to see ya back



cindergrow said:


> Beautiful plants. Can't wait to see what the total yield is per plant. Do you feel that the buds are as dense as other grows under non-cmh. Again, lovin the results.
> How fitting that around Halloween you have Monster Buds.


Yeah I never concern myself with yields till I wiegh em  but I would say at least a pound for sure off 4 plants/ 800 watts, so not bad
and they are very dense  some have 2 strings to hold em up


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## cindergrow (Nov 1, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Yeah I never concern myself with yields till I wiegh em  but I would say at least a pound for sure off 4 plants/ 800 watts, so not bad
> and they are very dense  some have 2 strings to hold em up


How ever it works out those are beauts.


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## riddleme (Nov 1, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> How ever it works out those are beauts.


Thank you, I'm simply doin what I do


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## riddleme (Nov 1, 2010)

I'm curious as to how many readin this are hip to coffee bean grinders? was thinkin about doing a ditty on em


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## Illumination (Nov 1, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I'm curious as to how many readin this are hip to coffee bean grinders? was thinkin about doing a ditty on em


Especially if you vape...

Namaste'


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## gumball (Nov 1, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I'm curious as to how many readin this are hip to coffee bean grinders? was thinkin about doing a ditty on em


please intrigue us further...


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## riddleme (Nov 1, 2010)

this is the best thing (toy) a grower can own IMO as they only cost $10 at wal-mart 
as a grower we get to smoke the very best of the best and we get to experiment with ways to make it even better.

I'm talking about kief here, nothing but trichs, the taste and high are far superior to just about anything (for the time & cost) me and my friends call it farie dust  it's all I smoke and I enjoy making what I call salads with it by adding different strains, I have put many a smoker on the floor with my salads 

the concept is that trichs are negative charged, or contain a negatively charged ion (does't matter) and as a result they cling (stick) to the plastic lid of the grinder, the beauty as I see it is it happens everytime and it is the shit !!!

Very easy to do simply put a bud or two in the grinder and run it for 30 seconds to a minute, as you can see in the pics the trichs stick to the lid,,,,bam now your smokin almost pure trichs (98~99%)

now I take the stuff that doesn't stick and simply put it in a jar (as it still continues to cure) and I generally give grams of this away to my patients and yes it still gets you high and smokes and tastes great even though I have removed some of the trichs (to me it is not fair to charge for it) and I call it grinder hash 

The trichs do actually stick to the lid so ya gotta scrap em out but it only takes 3 minutes tops to have some mighty fine smoke so I'll let the pics tell the rest of the story and if you don't already know about this neat little trick,,,,,trust me you want a coffee bean grinder!!!!


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## xivex (Nov 1, 2010)

That is fucking awesome. I am so going to wal-mart tomorrow. Thanks riddle, you come thru again my friend 

Let me see if it will let me give you +REP again yet or not..lol! 

Thanks,

X


----------



## rastadred22 (Nov 1, 2010)

i had a erb grinder i bought in canada a mj specific grinder...i found that if u lighty breathe in the inside of the lid (as u would if u wur clean a pair of shades or cd) it cakes up a hell of alot more keif than if u run it normally...trust me try it!


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## WWShadow (Nov 1, 2010)

ok, so you use the grinder to chop up the buds rather than break them up by hand, right? Now I know why you said once that everyone should have a grinder


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## MICANNACARE (Nov 1, 2010)

I'll be watching... your grows are fabolous. really want to see what your yield is like in those 5gl. they look beautiful. how do i subscribe? sorry im a noob. that grider is going to be a hit as xmas gifts. thanks that is brilliant. cant wait till lunch time 2marrow Hello Walmart. LMFAO.


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## riddleme (Nov 1, 2010)

MICANNACARE said:


> I'll be watching... your grows are fabolous. really want to see what your yield is like in those 5gl. they look beautiful. how do i subscribe? sorry im a noob


welcome 
up at the top look for thread tools, then click the subscribe link and follow instructions


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## Illumination (Nov 1, 2010)

yes kief is da bomb eh teach? Been getting beat up on my end but something should pop soon...

Namaste'


----------



## cindergrow (Nov 1, 2010)

Riddleme. You may have mentioned this, but I don't recall seeing it anywhere. How much of the Peter's 20-10-20 are you currently adding. Or if you have started the "drowning" how much did you use on the last feed?


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## ElectricPineapple (Nov 1, 2010)

riddle, you are by far the smartest man alive. i am going to be getting me one of those around my next harvest.


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## riddleme (Nov 2, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> Riddleme. You may have mentioned this, but I don't recall seeing it anywhere. How much of the Peter's 20-10-20 are you currently adding. Or if you have started the "drowning" how much did you use on the last feed?


drowning will not start untill after week 8 is over  as for feeding, I am currently making it rain then add 1 gallon of water that has 1 teaspoon of the 20-10-20 then I wait a day and add another gallon of water mixed the same,,,this last feeding I added 2 tablespoons of a molasses tea (1 jar of grandma's to 1 quart of water) to the 2nd gallon


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## riddleme (Nov 2, 2010)

ElectricPineapple said:


> riddle, you are by far the smartest man alive. i am going to be getting me one of those around my next harvest.


I did not invent it LOL I just know about it and am sharing the knowledge


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## Danielsgb (Nov 2, 2010)

Here's my drowning. Its at 5 days & color is fading as it lives of leaves on the left. Seeing some Nanners showing up so I'll harvest later today. Couple weeks and I'll have a smoke report. Thanks for the wisdom. Getting a new coffee grinder today too. I have a grinder with screen too.
Daniels


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## rastadred22 (Nov 2, 2010)

well i finnaly found it but i had this one loved it!!!! moved from canada to the states and couldnt clean it well enough so i had to give it away  best grinder ever hands down!


kids would literraly call me up and drive over just wanting to put there bud through this!


----------



## cindergrow (Nov 2, 2010)

riddleme said:


> drowning will not start untill after week 8 is over  as for feeding, I am currently making it rain then add 1 gallon of water that has 1 teaspoon of the 20-10-20 then I wait a day and add another gallon of water mixed the same,,,this last feeding I added 2 tablespoons of a molasses tea (1 jar of grandma's to 1 quart of water) to the 2nd gallon


So, for your next cycle will you be running 20-10-20 from beginning to end? I seem to remember you mentioning a mag deficiency some weeks back. Will yo be raising your dolomite amendment next time? Thanks for the details about the feeding.


----------



## riddleme (Nov 2, 2010)

I am truely very happy with the 20-10-20 but will most likely try my pick for flower nutes some time soon but with the next run most likely stick with the 20-10-20, the adding of mag was a preventative measure there was not an actual defeciency and I will be changing the medium mix a bit as I am thinking a 50/50 peat/clay mix might be more beneficial, gonna try it and see? so yes a bit more dolomite as the clay lowers ph over time by adding sulfer


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## MICANNACARE (Nov 2, 2010)

subscibed


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## riddleme (Nov 3, 2010)

They are drowning 

last night I decided to try the pre-mature pull I did a week or so ago, they have been in the jar, they were responding nicely to the cure, the smell was getting better and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

All I can say is,,,,WELCOME THE FUCK BACK TILDERS !!!!!!!!!

awesome smoke, 1 hitta quitta no doubt, 2 hits put me right the fuck down

based on this and the fact that my breeding project was a success, (pulled 22 beans out of the popcorns I just put in the chamber) I have decided to start the drowning, will most likely harvest this weekend


----------



## bigman4270 (Nov 3, 2010)

riddleme said:


> They are drowning
> 
> last night I decided to try the pre-mature pull I did a week or so ago, they have been in the jar, they were responding nicely to the cure, the smell was getting better and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> ...


Right on my friend. Sounds like things are right were ya wan't them to be. Did the pollenating thing to my P/R and Isis. Hope to get some beans myself with this round. 

Peace

Big


----------



## rastadred22 (Nov 3, 2010)

thats whats up teach! cant wait to see this bud wen its all ready!


----------



## kingofqueen (Nov 3, 2010)

Hey Riddleme ! Still following your teachings in the shadows keep up the good work . I think you found or refound mabey your calling . I'm slowly converting to your methods .One by your teachings and 2 by this was my original train of thought was to go soiless when I first started . I went with organics and am ready to be bug free now and in control of my nutrients now I got a good feel for reading my plants and have gotten my feet wet so to speak. I,m about to start vegging my 3rd grow , but I,m at the dilemma of finding a soiless mix without buying a whole bale of Sunshine or Promix .The only other options I see availible are Organicare Pure Earth Aeration formula or I think I can get Roots Organics soiless mix . Any suggestions for whats availible in our area? Another question I took clones off the plants I,m running now .I,m undecided because of lack of knowlage ,will a clone of a clone be as potent as the original clone? What are your views on clones of clones and potency . The strains are Pineapple Express and Purple FLo (GDPxFlo).


These are my current grow almost 4 weeks flowering .Plant pictured is Pineapple Express.

 Thanks in advance !
 King


----------



## Illumination (Nov 3, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> Hey Riddleme ! Still following your teachings in the shadows keep up the good work . I think you found or refound mabey your calling . I'm slowly converting to your methods .One by your teachings and 2 by this was my original train of thought was to go soiless when I first started . I went with organics and am ready to be bug free now and in control of my nutrients now I got a good feel for reading my plants and have gotten my feet wet so to speak. I,m about to start vegging my 3rd grow , but I,m at the dilemma of finding a soiless mix without buying a whole bale of Sunshine or Promix .The only other options I see availible are Organicare Pure Earth Aeration formula or I think I can get Roots Organics soiless mix . Any suggestions for whats availible in our area?


I am attempting using only light warrior by Fox Farms which is soiless and nute less with added perilite and lime...1 cubic foot bag....hope it helps

Namaste'


----------



## riddleme (Nov 3, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> Hey Riddleme ! Still following your teachings in the shadows keep up the good work . I think you found or refound mabey your calling . I'm slowly converting to your methods .One by your teachings and 2 by this was my original train of thought was to go soiless when I first started . I went with organics and am ready to be bug free now and in control of my nutrients now I got a good feel for reading my plants and have gotten my feet wet so to speak. I,m about to start vegging my 3rd grow , but I,m at the dilemma of finding a soiless mix without buying a whole bale of Sunshine or Promix .The only other options I see availible are Organicare Pure Earth Aeration formula or I think I can get Roots Organics soiless mix . Any suggestions for whats availible in our area? Another question I took clones off the plants I,m running now .I,m undecided because of lack of knowlage ,will a clone of a clone be as potent as the original clone? What are your views on clones of clones and potency . The strains are Pineapple Express and Purple FLo (GDPxFlo).
> 
> 
> These are my current grow almost 4 weeks flowering .Plant pictured is Pineapple Express.
> ...


I would just buy the bale? yeah it's like 4 big bags but only $38 so less than $10 a bag, I'll be needin more in about 2 or 3 weeks I guess we could split one?

and properly grown a clone will be the exact same plant with the same potency


----------



## Illumination (Nov 3, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I would just buy the bale? yeah it's like 4 big bags but only $38 so less than $10 a bag, I'll be needin more in about 2 or 3 weeks I guess we could split one?
> 
> and properly grown a clone will be the exact same plant with the same potency


For what it is worth as I cannot recall where I read it But after 5-6 cloning generations some genetic deterioration occurs...

Namaste'


----------



## riddleme (Nov 3, 2010)

Illumination said:


> For what it is worth as I cannot recall where I read it But after 5-6 cloning generations some genetic deterioration occurs...
> 
> Namaste'


I have read that it does not diminish until after 100 generations, but have no actual experience to back it up, in the end it is why folks keep mom plants


----------



## LiveHigh (Nov 3, 2010)

I believe the genetic deterioration is due more to stress. If a plant lives a very comfortable and non-stressful life, it should put out good clones for a long time.


----------



## riddleme (Nov 3, 2010)

LiveHigh said:


> I believe the genetic deterioration is due more to stress. If a plant lives a very comfortable and non-stressful life, it should put out good clones for a long time.


Why my first response was "properly grown"


----------



## kingofqueen (Nov 3, 2010)

Thanks for all the replys. Not quite sure where I,ll be on on soil in 2 or 3 weeks ,Thank You very much for the offer Riddleme ! All these questions are spurring because I took clones off my plants. So they are around 4 weeks into flowering .And then I have the 4 clones I took.
I,m wandering if I could mother 2 of them and keep cloning off them .I'd like to keep the Pineapple Express going but dont want to waste my time if this is something that shouldnt be done. I like how strong and vigorous the PE is. They are still in solo cups with Happy frog.I'll probaly pick up some of the Organicare soiless to veg them in . Then later down the road when I,m doing better I,ll start buying bales.I was just wandering if anybody knew of a shop with a good soiless mix in smaller amounts.


----------



## riddleme (Nov 3, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> Thanks for all the replys. Not quite sure where I,ll be on on soil in 2 or 3 weeks ,Thank You very much for the offer Riddleme ! All these questions are spurring because I took clones off my plants. So they are around 4 weeks into flowering .And then I have the 4 clones I took.
> I,m wandering if I could mother 2 of them and keep cloning off them .I'd like to keep the Pineapple Express going but dont want to waste my time if this is something that shouldnt be done. I like how strong and vigorous the PE is. They are still in solo cups with Happy frog.I'll probaly pick up some of the Organicare soiless to veg them in . Then later down the road when I,m doing better I,ll start buying bales.I was just wandering if anybody knew of a shop with a good soiless mix in smaller amounts.


Paulinos has a sunshine mix in bags (small) but not #4 (not sure which one it is)
and yes you can turn a clone into a mom to keep a strain going


----------



## ElectricPineapple (Nov 3, 2010)

a clone should not deteriorate theoretically. you are taking a part of that plants genetic code, something that cannot me changed unless by mutation caused by stressed. and then, it still would have the same characteristics as its donor.


----------



## riddleme (Nov 3, 2010)

ElectricPineapple said:


> a clone should not deteriorate theoretically. you are taking a part of that plants genetic code, something that cannot me changed unless by mutation caused by stressed. and then, it still would have the same characteristics as its donor.


exactly


----------



## xshooterx (Nov 3, 2010)

That's really cool Riddle, thanks. Besides vape, how do you smoke it? I kinda like not using a screen.


----------



## xivex (Nov 3, 2010)

Hey Riddle!!

Just tried your pixie dust for the first time! Bought the coffee grinder from wal-mart and it worked marvelously, trichomes just stuck to the lid and we scraped a bowl up. Three or four hits and I was baked, a normal bowl of this doesn't normally do that to me. Great tip man, thanks!

X


----------



## riddleme (Nov 3, 2010)

xshooterx said:


> That's really cool Riddle, thanks. Besides vape, how do you smoke it? I kinda like not using a screen.


have never vaped, have thought about it, but really like my bong and I use a screen


----------



## riddleme (Nov 3, 2010)

xivex said:


> Hey Riddle!!
> 
> Just tried your pixie dust for the first time! Bought the coffee grinder from wal-mart and it worked marvelously, trichomes just stuck to the lid and we scraped a bowl up. Three or four hits and I was baked, a normal bowl of this doesn't normally do that to me. Great tip man, thanks!
> 
> X


as always, your very welcome


----------



## riddleme (Nov 4, 2010)

will try to get some better pics later (still playin with new camera) saw this and wanted to share so just grabbed a fast pic. I trimmed the NL #1 popcorns last night and all I can say is WOW look at that f-ing sugar   

they are in jars now smoke report to follow soon, the big bitches are drowning in the dark now, got regular 12/12 yesterday now lights out till saturday 

enjoy the bud porn


----------



## bigman4270 (Nov 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> will try to get some better pics later (still playin with new camera) saw this and wanted to share so just grabbed a fast pic. I trimmed the NL #1 popcorns last night and all I can say is WOW look at that f-ing sugar
> 
> they are in jars now smoke report to follow soon, the big bitches are drowning in the dark now, got regular 12/12 yesterday now lights out till saturday
> 
> enjoy the bud porn


Right on brother. Love the porn.


----------



## MICANNACARE (Nov 4, 2010)

Hey do you think that grinder idea will work on trim? I just got done trimming some OG kush and I have like a grocery bag of leaf and trim. I saved it to try the bubble hash but this sounds like a quicker less messy concept... What do you think?


----------



## riddleme (Nov 4, 2010)

MICANNACARE said:


> Hey do you think that grinder idea will work on trim? I just got done trimming some OG kush and I have like a grocery bag of leaf and trim. I saved it to try the bubble hash but this sounds like a quicker less messy concept... What do you think?


I have never done it, but hey give it a try and let us know?


----------



## SensiStan (Nov 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> will try to get some better pics later (still playin with new camera) saw this and wanted to share so just grabbed a fast pic. I trimmed the NL #1 popcorns last night and all I can say is WOW look at that f-ing sugar
> 
> they are in jars now smoke report to follow soon, the big bitches are drowning in the dark now, got regular 12/12 yesterday now lights out till saturday
> 
> enjoy the bud porn


"SensiStan wishes he lives in Colorado ..... " ....


----------



## Illumination (Nov 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> will try to get some better pics later (still playin with new camera) saw this and wanted to share so just grabbed a fast pic. I trimmed the NL #1 popcorns last night and all I can say is WOW look at that f-ing sugar
> 
> they are in jars now smoke report to follow soon, the big bitches are drowning in the dark now, got regular 12/12 yesterday now lights out till saturday
> 
> enjoy the bud porn


Awww sugar sugar!!!

namaste'


----------



## rastadred22 (Nov 4, 2010)

wow lookin good man!


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## riddleme (Nov 4, 2010)

I gotta tell ya it was really funny, last night I'm sittin there trimmin these and I cut away a leaf and see the white and my heart sank, I said to myself shit, they molded. I go get the loupe (my tired old eyes and all) and look at it and said holy shit that ain't mold  

these bitches are frosty as hell, pic does not do em justice

and drowning update, they are doing well sitting in the dark in the water, they do seem to be getting a bit fuller (plumper) and the humidity has gone up (about 7 points) but so far all seems to be going well


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## riddleme (Nov 4, 2010)

broke the 2000 point mark today for rep, I am now beyond repute LOL so I thought it would be nice to say thank you to all of you that have followed my threads and given me rep,,,,,,,,I appreciate you all


----------



## rastadred22 (Nov 4, 2010)

nice haha was i the last one? lol


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## rastadred22 (Nov 4, 2010)

shit must feel great!!


----------



## Illumination (Nov 4, 2010)

riddleme said:


> broke the 2000 point mark today for rep, I am now beyond repute LOL so I thought it would be nice to say thank you to all of you that have followed my threads and given me rep,,,,,,,,I appreciate you all


thank you my friend


Namaste'


----------



## Danielsgb (Nov 4, 2010)

We knew it was Beyond Repute already but good to see.
Daniels


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## cindergrow (Nov 4, 2010)

Congrats on the two G.


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## cindergrow (Nov 5, 2010)

So Riddleme... how close did the girls get to the old CMH before you brought the darkness?


----------



## riddleme (Nov 5, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> So Riddleme... how close did the girls get to the old CMH before you brought the darkness?


not sure I'm understanding the question?


----------



## Bonzi Lighthouse (Nov 5, 2010)

I think he is asking if you used all your head room.


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## riddleme (Nov 5, 2010)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> I think he is asking if you used all your head room.


was out of headroom weeks ago LOL but right now they are about 12 inches from the light (give or take in a few spots) definately closer than I wanted em 

I did this (let em go wild thing) to show folks what they would and what is possible if you let em do what they want


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## Danielsgb (Nov 5, 2010)

I got a coffee grinder today. I tried some sugar leaves that were in the freezer. I was thinking frozen would work good. Trichomes would come off easier. Worked good. Give it a try after you trim those 'Logs' for Colas.
Daniels


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## cindergrow (Nov 6, 2010)

riddleme said:


> was out of headroom weeks ago LOL but right now they are about 12 inches from the light (give or take in a few spots) definately closer than I wanted em
> 
> I did this (let em go wild thing) to show folks what they would and what is possible if you let em do what they want


I guess I was wondering what a safe distance was to set up. I got my 400 cmh and was going to finish it in a half and half, (4 under each) next to a 1000 hps. A bit late for a true comparison since I'm in week 7, but maybe some good data will come from this little experiment. As soon as I'm done this will become the veg light for a new cycle.

As an aside I put the meter set to foot candles under the cmh and at about 14 inches was reading 3500-4000. the hps was in the 7000-8500 range.


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## Danielsgb (Nov 7, 2010)

RiddleMe, are your hands just sticky from harvesting that Jungle?
Daniels


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## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> RiddleMe, are your hands just sticky from harvesting that Jungle?
> Daniels


yes they are, just finished, wet wieght comming in at 2395 grams  let the guessing begin
remember I leave the leafs on 

pics & updates comming


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## kingofqueen (Nov 7, 2010)

Thats cool Daniels , I'm trying to come up with a way to process some trim. Mabey I,ll just do the Riddleme coffe grinder idea. 

And speaking of frosty buds check out this Summit Sweet Skunk I got the other day!


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## gumball (Nov 7, 2010)

i say 1.2 lbs dry weight, congratulations riddleme 

since everyone knows you here, are you gonna keep this thread going for future grows, or do you have other plans?


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## kingofqueen (Nov 7, 2010)

I,ll go with 1.5 pounds . What are u going to do for height control on your next run Riddleme?


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## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

will continue in this thread for awhile, as still finishing the IR experiment

and just so all the guessers know I rounded down, if a bud was 62.9, I called it 62,,,,,,so wet wieght is approximate 

also did not include the popcorns from the stepchild, they are hangin seperately

and you'll be amazed at what I have done for hieght control


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## Danielsgb (Nov 7, 2010)

I'll go 1.25 lbs. The Coffee Grinder works good for frozen trim leaves. I'm calling it Leaf Kief. Can't wait for Harvest Pics.
Daniels


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## kingofqueen (Nov 7, 2010)

and you'll be amazed at what I have done for hieght control :)[/QUOTE said:


> I,m intrigued !


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## rastadred22 (Nov 7, 2010)

wow riddle dats crazzzy man!


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## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

ok here are the results by plant 

good ol #2 which I named Kat and who was the most vigorous came in wet at 989

#3 which I named DD cause of her two huge colas came in at 892

#4 the Tilders plant came in at 338

and the stepchild who took #1's place (Udo the male) came in at 176 (so much for big bud???)

DD's two big colas were the biggest one was 201 other was 145

pics are as they went into the chamber (from the bottom) 1st shelf is Kat, 2nd shelf is DD, 3rd shelf is Tilders, 4th shelf is Stepchild

then there are pics of the two biggest colas and I have big hands  also the pics with soda can are just those colas on the shelf by themselves,,,,edit: reminder, shelves are 25 inches wide by 18 inches deep


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## Shayden (Nov 7, 2010)

I am going to say adleast 1-2 pounds. Nice yield for only 4 plants!


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## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

I did the first 12 hours with lights on, then 60 hours of darkness, then 12 hours of lights on then 12 hours of darkness before harvesting,,,,,,pics are of one of the root balls as you can see they are brown so def O2 starved and were not root bound


----------



## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

here are before and after pics from last weekend when I trained some of the plants to mater cages,


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## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

The blue pots are NorthernLights #1, the purple pots are Tilders (NorthernLights Specials) the 2 #1's with cages had ALL of their big fan leaves removed the remaining one is the control plant as I am seeing for myself this whole defoliation thing. The 2 tilders that are not caged are basically runts as they were the last clones to go in several weeks behind.

Also light is lowered back to where I want it and the make it rain stand is back in place


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## Danielsgb (Nov 7, 2010)

Nice. Great Harvest.
Daniels


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## rastadred22 (Nov 7, 2010)

wow truly impressive! i say it has to b over 2lbs! easy!...love the new garden...and its about time someone proves in hard copy what defoliation does...u kno what im siding for, (thats gonna be the lowest yeild of the garden!) but good to see this experiment take off...are u going to continue with the infared?


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## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> wow truly impressive! i say it has to b over 2lbs! easy!...love the new garden...and its about time someone proves in hard copy what defoliation does...u kno what im siding for, (thats gonna be the lowest yeild of the garden!) but good to see this experiment take off...are u going to continue with the infared?


yes continuing the IR experiment, now that the canopy is more controlable


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## rastadred22 (Nov 7, 2010)

wow i just realised right now u have about 5.5 pounds...so im saying 2-3pounds dry


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## cindergrow (Nov 7, 2010)

I guess 1.420 lbs.


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## pkp134 (Nov 7, 2010)

nice shit man one more notch in the belt, and now we are off again already... truly amazing. How long have the colored pots been in flower?


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## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

pkp134 said:


> nice shit man one more notch in the belt, and now we are off again already... truly amazing. How long have the colored pots been in flower?


3 weeks, they were cloned from the ones I just harvested, next run will be from seed  as the breeding project continues, gonna see some jack herrer, mind bender and crystal limit plus tilders X udo seeds from this grow, will be starting seeds next weekend


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## pkp134 (Nov 7, 2010)

Wow... strain names are going to be fun, but thats also going to be alot of work. Have you ever grown sub cool strains before? I would also love to see you get down on some autoflowering myths...


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## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

for me strain names are gonna be easy, I'm a huge DIO fan and he passed this year so will name strains in his honor, when my daughter died I got thru it by attaching DIO's song Sacred Heart to her (I still cry when I listen to it) so my first strain will be Sacred Heart 

and yes it is a lot of work and takes years to develope a good strain but I am going old school for the foundation and then mixing some very good strains in looking for those highs of yesteryear, not much out there today rivals the stuff I smoked in the 70's IMO 

never grew sub cool strains, not currently in my plans and I would most likely never do an autoflower


----------



## pkp134 (Nov 7, 2010)

You're growing style deffinitely doesnt allow for autos. unless you grew like 40 of them. I wish I was there to try some in the 70s but this vintage meets the future thing sounds kinda delish... and DIO is the shit.


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## cindergrow (Nov 7, 2010)

Hey Riddleme I was just re-reading this thread and had a couple questions if you don't mind. You said a ways back that you found a good deal on the calcined clay balls. Where did you source those, and what was the cost? Additionally I have been trying to find a resource for the Jrpeters nutes you suggested and have not yet been able to find a source here in the west. Did you order those direct from Peters in Pa. I'm on about page 60 and have not yet found your reference to PH in the #4 mix. I know the rain is 5.8, but can't remember your nute PH. I found a product called Pro mix bx http://www.pro-mixbas.com/ Is this similar to your #4? Would the nute PH be similar? Sorry for the cavalcade of questions.


----------



## riddleme (Nov 7, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> Hey Riddleme I was just re-reading this thread and had a couple questions if you don't mind. You said a ways back that you found a good deal on the calcined clay balls. Where did you source those, and what was the cost? Additionally I have been trying to find a resource for the Jrpeters nutes you suggested and have not yet been able to find a source here in the west. Did you order those direct from Peters in Pa. I'm on about page 60 and have not yet found your reference to PH in the #4 mix. I know the rain is 5.8, but can't remember your nute PH. I found a product called Pro mix bx http://www.pro-mixbas.com/ Is this similar to your #4? Would the nute PH be similar? Sorry for the cavalcade of questions.


I got the clay balls at American Clay a store here in Denver, they also had the peters professional I am using (the 20-10-20 Peat Lite Special) it was a 45 litre bag of clay balls (about 50 lbs) for $36 as I recall

I PH my nutes down to 5.8 as well

you can't find the PH reference for the #4 mix cause I never even looked on the bag to see what it was LOL 

Promix is a peat based soilless medium much like #4, I went with #4 because it was what I saw being used with the calcined clay that made me want to try it  Promix should be similar? I've never used it but there are alot of growers here that do


----------



## cindergrow (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks for the quick reply. I noticed that the Pro-mix has some dolomite, but had planned on amending it. Is it possible to overdo this?


----------



## Illumination (Nov 7, 2010)

riddleme said:


> yes they are, just finished, wet wieght comming in at 2395 grams  let the guessing begin
> remember I leave the leafs on
> 
> pics & updates comming


That should be your "Holy Grail" strain name. Sacred Heart the perfecting of the Holy Diver strain . My heart to you my friend as I am lucky enough to not know your pain of loss, but as a father myself I can relate....My fave Dio is "Don't Talk to Strangers" but love and miss him dearly. Was fortunate enough to see him with Geezer and Tony as Heaven and Hell, the tour was cancelled weeks after I saw them due to his discovery of stomach cancer, and months later his passing. Felt so fortunate to have seen him like it was fate you know?

My guesstimate 569 grams dryweight.

*Outstanding job Teach!*

Namaste'

*GEAUX SAINTS!*


----------



## Illumination (Nov 7, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I noticed that the Pro-mix has some dolomite, but had planned on amending it. Is it possible to overdo this?



IMHHO as for buffering of ph it will never raise it above 7.0 but as to causing nutrient blocks per too much calcium magnesium if you go crazy, but otherwise I think you are fine...

Hope it helps..

Namaste'


----------



## cindergrow (Nov 7, 2010)

Illumination said:


> IMHHO as for buffering of ph it will never raise it above 7.0 but as to causing nutrient blocks per too much calcium magnesium if you go crazy, but otherwise I think you are fine...
> 
> Hope it helps..
> 
> ...


 Thanks... Was planning on one tbl spoon per gal. of Pro-mix.


----------



## riddleme (Nov 8, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> Thanks... Was planning on one tbl spoon per gal. of Pro-mix.


That is what I do


----------



## Rocky Mountain High (Nov 8, 2010)

How bout them Raiders there RM3? Gotta love it when 'Just Win Baby' is back !!


----------



## riddleme (Nov 8, 2010)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> How bout them Raiders there RM3? Gotta love it when 'Just Win Baby' is back !!


even though my chiefs lost, it was a good game


----------



## WWShadow (Nov 8, 2010)

hey riddle, what was the actual time on cooking the popcorn buds? 
I was reading back over this thread & found about 2 whole pages that somehow I missed....it was important info too. I'm glad I reread stuff every now and then


----------



## riddleme (Nov 8, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> hey riddle, what was the actual time on cooking the popcorn buds?
> I was reading back over this thread & found about 2 whole pages that somehow I missed....it was important info too. I'm glad I reread stuff every now and then


it has varied, they tend to dry out in 2 to 3 days, was better with the big pile which took 4 days, I have pretty much given up on tryin to slow em down and goin more for consistency


----------



## DaveCoulier (Nov 10, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I noticed that the Pro-mix has some dolomite, but had planned on amending it. Is it possible to overdo this?





Illumination said:


> IMHHO as for buffering of ph it will never raise it above 7.0 but as to causing nutrient blocks per too much calcium magnesium if you go crazy, but otherwise I think you are fine...
> 
> Hope it helps..
> 
> Namaste'


Ive wondered about this before, which is why I contacted Bill Argo a few months back to ask about the possibility of overliming. Bill Argo has a great series called Understanding Plant Nutrition and he is the man to ask questions about media ph. 

This is what he wrote back to me:

_Will Dolomitic lime get the pH over 7.0? The answer is yes, but it may take a while to occur. The solubility of any limestone decreases, as the pH increases, so the reaction rate of limestone slows dramatically once you get into the high 6's or low 7's. However, just because it slows down does not mean that it is stopped. If you overlime a media, you will eventually react an equilibrium pH. As long as there is free calcium present, this equilibrium acts as a pH buffer (i.e. the pH will not go above this equilibrium pH)

With limestone, the equilibrium pH is dependent not only on the calcium concentration, but also the CO2 (gas) concentration in the soil. At atmospheric CO2 concentrations, the equilibrium pH is around 8.5. At higher CO2 concentrations, the equilibrium pH is suppressed. 

Since container media are highly porous, the CO2 (g) concentration measured in a media is similar to atmospheric CO2, and so the maximum pH you tend to get in container media is around 8.5. In field soil, the CO2(g) concentration is often reported to be 10x higher than atmospheric CO2, and so the equilibrium pH is lower (low to mid 7's). These are what are termed calcareous soils. _


Hope it helps.


----------



## Dr. Nuggett (Nov 10, 2010)

RiddleMe, How long before you start the new garden IR heater experiment. I was just wondering sense you added another light are you going to add another IR heater and when can we expect pictures?


----------



## riddleme (Nov 10, 2010)

Dr. Nuggett said:


> RiddleMe, How long before you start the new garden IR heater experiment. I was just wondering sense you added another light are you going to add another IR heater and when can we expect pictures?


not adding another heater, and experiment is running, will report findings as they occur?


----------



## cindergrow (Nov 10, 2010)

DaveCoulier said:


> Ive wondered about this before, which is why I contacted Bill Argo a few months back to ask about the possibility of overliming. Bill Argo has a great series called Understanding Plant Nutrition and he is the man to ask questions about media ph.
> 
> This is what he wrote back to me:
> 
> ...


Great info. Thanks. That's interesting about the CO2 concentration in field soil and its affect on PH.


----------



## Danielsgb (Nov 10, 2010)

I did a smoke report on the drowning experiment for my twins. Positive as you can imagine. It's on the 
*Well Here Goes Again #155
Daniels
*


----------



## riddleme (Nov 13, 2010)

Got DD trimmed and jarred (working on the others) she came in at 7.6 oz's dry and I got 12.3 grams of farie dust off the trimmins 

pics tomorrow?


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## rastadred22 (Nov 13, 2010)

sounds good man! thats aloooot of keif! u gonna smoke it or make somethin outa it? edibles?


----------



## kingofqueen (Nov 13, 2010)

Pics today would work
Did you top the plants that are trained to the mater cages?


----------



## bigman4270 (Nov 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Got DD trimmed and jarred (working on the others) she came in at 7.6 oz's dry and I got 12.3 grams of farie dust off the trimmins
> 
> pics tomorrow?


Bravo my friend. Nice pull off one plant! I'll be happy with that as a total with my five girls. Back to the drawing board and do some more re-reading.lol

Peace

Big


----------



## riddleme (Nov 14, 2010)

rastadred22 said:


> sounds good man! thats aloooot of keif! u gonna smoke it or make somethin outa it? edibles?


the farie dust is my personal stash  I mix em to make salads


----------



## riddleme (Nov 14, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> Pics today would work
> Did you top the plants that are trained to the mater cages?


yes they were all topped differently 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc


----------



## gumball (Nov 14, 2010)

riddleme said:


> the farie dust is my personal stash  I mix em to make salads


good morning riddleme! do you really mean you sprinkle it on a salad (lettuce, tomatoe, cucumber, etc type salads)? I have heard so many people use that term, but it is hard to say if they just mean a mix of different herbs, or mixed with this or that. in a salad would be good, but i think it would have to be activated first, right?


----------



## riddleme (Nov 14, 2010)

Ok here ya go,

DD 7.6 oz's
Kat 5.8 oz's
Tilders 3.2 oz's
Stepchild 1.4 oz's
Total = 18 oz's (510 grams)

Farie Dust total = 25.3 grams 

Grinder Hash total = 68.7 grams

Not bad for 4 plants but could have been better 

Smoke reports, the combo of drowning/fermentation chamber produces good smoke right away, I'm impressed, can't wait to taste em after a week in jars

Step Child, nice sweet hashy taste good instant buzz, nice creep bout 20 min, I doubt I would grow this strain again?

Tilders, is well tilders peppery hash taste instant numbing of head, neck & back slow creep bout 30 min time to play guitar 

DD & Kat def taste the thai influence, reminds me of thai stick from the good ol days no instant buzz, was a bit disappointed at first? 40 min creep then oh yeah really nice mellow happy relaxed wonderful buzz

mind you these reports are from just one hit of farie dust from each

The Salad, mix of all 3 farie dust is awesome, got some great smoke for awhile, 1 hit had me soarin 2 hits put me to sleep, exactly what I want  very happy!!!!!!

a few pics to give ya an idea, I have 3 bowls (like the one in the pic) cause they were to big to go in the jars I had  did get 4 jars of popcorn


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## SensiStan (Nov 14, 2010)

Some gorgeous looking buds riddle  i'm seeing so many good looking harvests at the moment from you and others , i need another trip to the dam, you've all got me salivating over your delicious buds !!


----------



## kingofqueen (Nov 14, 2010)

Damn fine job for 4 plants !


----------



## rastadred22 (Nov 14, 2010)

damn looks good! congrats man!


----------



## Illumination (Nov 14, 2010)

Illumination said:


> *My guesstimate 569 grams dryweight.*


Not a bad guess eh teach?? Seems I learning something!!LOL!!

Namaste'


----------



## riddleme (Nov 14, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Not a bad guess eh teach?? Seems I learning something!!LOL!!
> 
> Namaste'


yeppers looks like you were the closest ding ding ding


----------



## xshooterx (Nov 14, 2010)

Excellent Riddle! Did you come up with a watt/gram number?


----------



## xshooterx (Nov 14, 2010)

Actually adding the extra 400cmh midstream might require some higher math, lol.


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## dudeoflife (Nov 16, 2010)

Another success, my friend. 

Shall we do your next grow, or a part of it, with my goods?


----------



## riddleme (Nov 16, 2010)

dudeoflife said:


> Another success, my friend.
> 
> Shall we do your next grow, or a part of it, with my goods?


 
your pm box is full


----------



## ElectricPineapple (Nov 16, 2010)

amazing grow and yield Riddleme.


----------



## embry928 (Nov 18, 2010)

wow good job i keep on watching and learning thx for all the great info


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## rastadred22 (Nov 18, 2010)

any new updates riddle? hows everything goin man


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## gumball (Nov 18, 2010)

He's balls deep in bud! Can't get to the computer for all the bud 

That or he's too stoned


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## riddleme (Nov 18, 2010)

yeppers swimmin in buds  been very busy, will try and get an update done this weekend


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## rastadred22 (Nov 18, 2010)

nice. bet those bitches are looking nice


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## Danielsgb (Nov 18, 2010)

riddleme said:


> yeppers swimmin in buds  been very busy, will try and get an update done this weekend


I hope you're getting time to work on your book.


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## machnak (Nov 20, 2010)

Man awesome weight pulled from those bitches, nice buds too!


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## dudeoflife (Nov 21, 2010)

riddleme said:


> your pm box is full


Emptied.  How's the book coming along?


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## sguardians2 (Nov 23, 2010)

dudeoflife said:


> Emptied.  How's the book coming along?


Yeah, when's the release date? I need that book!


----------



## cowboylogic (Nov 27, 2010)

Browsed through and kinda caught up. Gotta tell ya Riddle. If the Chiefs played ball like you grow... talk about a dynasty.


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## cgrizzle3 (Nov 28, 2010)

View attachment 1292471Hey riddleme. I just wanted to show you what i just did with my first grow. I really like your journals, and i have took alot of advice from you. Even though i am not a CMH person or anything, i just wanted to see what you think. I just had a grow, which was my first, and i had one plant in particular that yielded 28 OZ's by itself. Have you ever heard of this before? It was a mystery seed from vancouver seed company grown in a ebb and flow table, with fox farm nutrients. Here take a look, tell me what you think Arent you the one who grew fucking incredible and said it was a salad? These werent totally fucking incredible, but they were half. Thak you for taking your time to look, happy growing.


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## kingofqueen (Nov 28, 2010)

Damn did you get to take any clones off that monster ?


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## cgrizzle3 (Nov 28, 2010)

Yea luckily. I numbered all my plants, and since this was so big ina table, i thought it was a different number until i cut it down. I kept clones of #13, which i thought it was, but it was actually #15! Luckily, i did give my brother clones, so i got some still. Come check out my journal, its quite funny. People done beleive me, even with all the pictures and video i have gave them.


kingofqueen said:


> Damn did you get to take any clones off that monster ?


----------



## cindergrow (Nov 30, 2010)

Nice grow grizz. Just an observation about the protekt; I had not had the problem mentioned earlier about the nutes staying suspended until today. I had normally been mixing 4 gals of nutes then adding the protekt to the solution. Today I put all the products in the bottom of the empty bucket and then added water. Shazam! suspended blue particles appear. Additionally the ph of the mixture was about .3 higher.


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## cowboylogic (Nov 30, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> View attachment 1292471View attachment 1292470View attachment 1292469View attachment 1292468View attachment 1292467View attachment 1292466View attachment 1292465View attachment 1292464View attachment 1292463Hey riddleme. I just wanted to show you what i just did with my first grow. I really like your journals, and i have took alot of advice from you. Even though i am not a CMH person or anything, i just wanted to see what you think. I just had a grow, which was my first, and i had one plant in particular that yielded 28 OZ's by itself. Have you ever heard of this before? It was a mystery seed from vancouver seed company grown in a ebb and flow table, with fox farm nutrients. Here take a look, tell me what you think Arent you the one who grew fucking incredible and said it was a salad? These werent totally fucking incredible, but they were half. Thak you for taking your time to look, happy growing.


Hey Riddle, be aware. The BS meter is off the chart on this one.


----------



## Someguy15 (Nov 30, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> Hey Riddle, be aware. The BS meter is off the chart on this one.


 Doubt he's BSing completely pics look legit. Will say it doesn't look like the greatest quality strain (I hate the strains with tons of curled little leaf) but def a nice size plant. And 28 oz was either wet or under a minimum of 1000w to that single plant I would have to say, else BS. No plant yields like that under 4,6, hell even 1000 probably.


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## gumball (Nov 30, 2010)

Its only .78 grams per watt on a 1000w, so very possible. But probability is what is registering on the BS meter


----------



## ElectricPineapple (Nov 30, 2010)

except he had that and several other plants, i think around 20 under only 2000 watts.


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## Danielsgb (Nov 30, 2010)

No pic shows 1 impressive plant. Just some group pics. Big claim to make. The 6 weeks veg for it is *very* skeptical IMO for the claimed weight. If so he should sell clones for good money.
Daniels


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## cindergrow (Nov 30, 2010)

Not sure if his dry weight estimate is correct. He extrapolated the end weight from wet weight. I had some down time so read about 10 pages. Boy did they give that guy some shit. Regardless the plant he showed hung did look like a mfer.


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## cgrizzle3 (Nov 30, 2010)

They are! I had 20 plants under 2400 watt's. 4 turned out to be male, and 6 died because of how big this one plant was. Your avatar picture shows a pop can and says 35.9 grams, right? I had buds bigger than 3 2 liter bottles, end on end. I really am submitting my story on hightimes, so thats the only place ill be arguing anymore. Im sick of the BS from people.


Someguy15 said:


> Doubt he's BSing completely pics look legit. Will say it doesn't look like the greatest quality strain (I hate the strains with tons of curled little leaf) but def a nice size plant. And 28 oz was either wet or under a minimum of 1000w to that single plant I would have to say, else BS. No plant yields like that under 4,6, hell even 1000 probably.


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Nov 30, 2010)

Danielsgb said:


> No pic shows 1 impressive plant. Just some group pics. Big claim to make. The 6 weeks veg for it is *very* skeptical IMO for the claimed weight. If so he should sell clones for good money.
> Daniels


If i wouldve showed this plant upright, all the buds would have been lying on the floor. I wish i would have, ill tell ya, but even then, you would said, THAT DONT WEIGHT THAT...theres nothing, and i mean, nothing, that will prove it to you, or anyone else, so im done.


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## Illumination (Nov 30, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> If i wouldve showed this plant upright, all the buds would have been lying on the floor. I wish i would have, ill tell ya, but even then, you would said, THAT DONT WEIGHT THAT...theres nothing, and i mean, nothing, that will prove it to you, or anyone else, so im done.


The possibility is there of course.....but from the story you presented as to grow time , number of plants...the equation fails...either you are hiding or inadvertently leaving out information...and did you take pictures during the grow? Show those...I believe you did an outstanding job and compliment you ....but when you have outrageous claims be prepared to offer proof of the grow not just the results and then you won't get so much flak

I for one am not hating on you and those buds are huge..well done

Please do not get angry with the community but rather share what you did to grow this monster as the info will help all

Namaste'


----------



## Illumination (Nov 30, 2010)

cindergrow said:


> Nice grow grizz. Just an observation about the protekt; I had not had the problem mentioned earlier about the nutes staying suspended until today. I had normally been mixing 4 gals of nutes then adding the protekt to the solution. Today I put all the products in the bottom of the empty bucket and then added water. Shazam! suspended blue particles appear. Additionally the ph of the mixture was about .3 higher.


Always add nutes to water first...NEVER TO EACH OTHER...and always add the protekt first...in concentrated form it has to be in high ph to remain suspended...but diluted for use it can remain suspended even with lower ph...if you do not add it to the water first it will precipitate out of solution along with whatever else and become unusable to the plant...so get your water then add protekt then add whatever other nutes you are using and then you are golden....

Hope it helps

namaste'


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Dec 1, 2010)

What do you mean? I understand i did not show my entire grow, but anytime something was in question, i showed pictures. I got thousands of pictures throughout this grow, so posting them all would take forever. Also, i have to be careful of what i post because some pictures have people faces in them that wouldnt be happy with that. But, i did post this today, after editing out the last few seconds, on my thread. Check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHeCLtgBiV0 . If you want me to show anything else, i will, just let me know.


Illumination said:


> The possibility is there of course.....but from the story you presented as to grow time , number of plants...the equation fails...either you are hiding or inadvertently leaving out information...and did you take pictures during the grow? Show those...I believe you did an outstanding job and compliment you ....but when you have outrageous claims be prepared to offer proof of the grow not just the results and then you won't get so much flak
> 
> I for one am not hating on you and those buds are huge..well done
> 
> ...


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Dec 1, 2010)

Another thin illumination, i was wondering, what part of my plant doesnt add up? I started my table with 20 plants about, then 4 were male, took them out, then harvested a few early because they werent getting any light, then some died. I will have to add it up, but i ended up with like 12 plants i think? There were a couple around the huge plant, but they were underdeveloped because of how much room this monster took.In total, i got 60 oz's out of my grow with 2-1000 watt hps, and 1 400 mh


Illumination said:


> The possibility is there of course.....but from the story you presented as to grow time , number of plants...the equation fails...either you are hiding or inadvertently leaving out information...and did you take pictures during the grow? Show those...I believe you did an outstanding job and compliment you ....but when you have outrageous claims be prepared to offer proof of the grow not just the results and then you won't get so much flak
> 
> I for one am not hating on you and those buds are huge..well done
> 
> ...


----------



## Illumination (Dec 1, 2010)

I don't need anything ....you are fine with me...I feel you did an awesome job

Would like to know what nutes you used at what strength,,,boosters etc.

Soil composition, container size, basically the nuts and bolts of your operation...so I can learn

And again....awesome job

Thank you 

Namaste'


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## cgrizzle3 (Dec 1, 2010)

i made a 3x8 ft ebb and flow table, i used fox farm grow big, tiger bloom, big bloom, then soluables, i used open sesame, cha ching, and beastie bloomz. To keep my ph right, for up i used silica by dutchmaster, i also used some thrive alive here and there. I used co2, RO water, calmag plus, Azamax for pests. I started with 1-1000 watt light, then when they got bigger went to 2-1000 watt hps lights, then added a 400 MH over the couple dirt plants i had in front of the table. Thank you for actually sounding like you beleive me, NO ONE ELSE DOES! Have you seen my thread, these people are so ruthless with nonsense.


Illumination said:


> I don't need anything ....you are fine with me...I feel you did an awesome job
> 
> Would like to know what nutes you used at what strength,,,boosters etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## lime73 (Dec 1, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> i made a 3x8 ft ebb and flow table, i used fox farm grow big, tiger bloom, big bloom, then soluables, i used open sesame, cha ching, and beastie bloomz. To keep my ph right, for up i used silica by dutchmaster, i also used some thrive alive here and there. I used co2, RO water, calmag plus, Azamax for pests. I started with 1-1000 watt light, then when they got bigger went to 2-1000 watt hps lights, then added a 400 MH over the couple dirt plants i had in front of the table. Thank you for actually sounding like you beleive me, NO ONE ELSE DOES! Have you seen my thread, these people are so ruthless with nonsense.


man...again??? i just reported you on another thread for posting your link to yours...and pics without permission in someone elses journal .....and now you are here on riddleme's thread arguing about your stuff.... to his buddies???

Keep on you own thread and debate your grow there!!! unless riddleme said to???


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## Bunited2 (Dec 1, 2010)

Put another one on you tube if you can?


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## cgrizzle3 (Dec 1, 2010)

whats going to happen, i get booted? idc, ive found out that most people on here are just jelous when you post something good. I really dont care too much about being part of a community that has so much hatred. Also, how is anyone supposed to know the rules when their new. I still dont even know how to navigate around RIU. And, riddleme is someone i respect, ive read his posts the whole time ive been growing. SO, sounds like your the one who is trolling, dude


lime73 said:


> man...again??? i just reported you on another thread for posting your link to yours...and pics without permission in someone elses journal .....and now you are here on riddleme's thread arguing about your stuff.... to his buddies???
> 
> Keep on you own thread and debate your grow there!!! unless riddleme said to???


----------



## Illumination (Dec 1, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> i made a 3x8 ft ebb and flow table, i used fox farm grow big, tiger bloom, big bloom, then soluables, i used open sesame, cha ching, and beastie bloomz. To keep my ph right, for up i used silica by dutchmaster, i also used some thrive alive here and there. I used co2, RO water, calmag plus, Azamax for pests. I started with 1-1000 watt light, then when they got bigger went to 2-1000 watt hps lights, then added a 400 MH over the couple dirt plants i had in front of the table. Thank you for actually sounding like you beleive me, NO ONE ELSE DOES! Have you seen my thread, these people are so ruthless with nonsense.


I posted pretty much the same type of reply in your thread...not hating just explaining why I thought they were doing you that way and complimenting your grow regardless of numbers

I haven't seen from you any reason to believe you are bad people...as a matter of fact I feel really good vibes from you...ignore the bad words dude...You did an awesome job and I feel you deserve credit for accomplishing what most people would love to accomplish 

Just get your grow on...who are these people anyways? Their opinion is just that...an opinion...you know what you did and in that you should be proud...doesn't matter if they believe you or not...you know you did what you did and that's what matters...so quit trying to prove anything... and looking forward to following your journal of your next grow...there are tons of good people on here...and some of the naysayers are really good friends of mine....almost everyone in RM3's clan are bullshit detectors and will attack any bs they see....Not to be asses but there so so much bs on here that it has worn their tolerance...

I know RM3 is anything goes in his threads so as long as it isn't perpetual I dont think he'll mind

I my friend am here to learn and to share what I know and learn as well as meet good people...and I feel you are good people...so chill be proud and help others and things will be fine here for you

Thank you for your time and you'll see me on your thread or come to my lil grow in my sig...please

Namaste'


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## cgrizzle3 (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you, its been most pleasing dealing with you. And yea, i dont care if someone doubts me, thats why i try to give them what they want, proof. I knew i would be doubted coming into this. And sorry for posting this on your thread riddleme.


Illumination said:


> I posted pretty much the same type of reply in your thread...not hating just explaining why I thought they were doing you that way and complimenting your grow regardless of numbers
> 
> I haven't seen from you any reason to believe you are bad people...as a matter of fact I feel really good vibes from you...ignore the bad words dude...You did an awesome job and I feel you deserve credit for accomplishing what most people would love to accomplish
> 
> ...


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## gumball (Dec 1, 2010)

Well put Illumination! 

Keep it up cgrizzle, great things from you we will see. We don't consider your post count any relevance to your experience or skills!


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## cgrizzle3 (Dec 1, 2010)

lol, i dont have too much experience, or skills, mostly luck. But i did put my time in with research, thats for sure. Thank you gumball


gumball said:


> Well put Illumination!
> 
> Keep it up cgrizzle, great things from you we will see. We don't consider your post count any relevance to your experience or skills!


----------



## Danielsgb (Dec 1, 2010)

cgrizzle3 said:


> Thank you, its been most pleasing dealing with you. And yea, i dont care if someone doubts me, thats why i try to give them what they want, proof. I knew i would be doubted coming into this. And sorry for posting this on your thread riddleme.


I said I was skeptical, never called you a liar. You posted a vid showing the whole plant which was part of my skepticism. The vid *does* show a monster. You did mention you were amazed, & expected some disbelief. As Lumi says we are skeptical. Wade through enough BS while trying to help is hard. Part of why RiddleMe amazes me so often. As I said I'd love to follow some clones from her.
Daniels


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## kingofqueen (Dec 1, 2010)

Getting kinda old reading about this plant . He has a thread for the grow why not back it up over there instead of here ?


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## riddleme (Dec 1, 2010)

Nice plant!  as stated in several of my threads I'm pretty ok with anything and besides I have been busy and not here much lately so I actually appreciate you guys keepin my thread alive 

as for some one coming here to avoid the crap that happens in the forum, I have no problem with that, we all know not many haters come into my threads and while it is for sure true we all have our BS meters on we are at least respectful, which is why I love you guys 

Now grow another one


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## jfa916 (Dec 1, 2010)

nice harvest great job


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## Illumination (Dec 1, 2010)

riddleme said:


> Nice plant!  as stated in several of my threads I'm pretty ok with anything and besides I have been busy and not here much lately so I actually appreciate you guys keepin my thread alive
> 
> as for some one coming here to avoid the crap that happens in the forum, I have no problem with that, we all know not many haters come into my threads and while it is for sure true we all have our BS meters on we are at least respectful, which is why I love you guys
> 
> ...


That's what I'm talking about!! What he ^^ said!!

Hell yeah ...see I told you you taught us well!!

Namaste'

ps-detailed smoke, infrared results report? lol


----------



## rastadred22 (Dec 1, 2010)

hey riddle man hows those babies comin along? cant wait to see some bud porn...buds gotta be pretty big by now


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## riddleme (Dec 1, 2010)

naw they are all pretty small this time, one strain got a disease and lost all it's leaves the other strain is in experiment mode testing the defoilation crap out will be writing a ditty on it soon but can tell ya that removing leaves makes smaller buds thing I always say is now proven with pics comming

and sorry to all for being away so much but the good news is it's because of a new lady in my life


----------



## rastadred22 (Dec 1, 2010)

ay thats wat up man...cant say nothin to that!! lol one thing i ca tel is u kno how to treat ur ladies lofl


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## gumball (Dec 2, 2010)

glad to hear of good times for you riddleme!!


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## cowboylogic (Dec 2, 2010)

riddleme said:


> naw they are all pretty small this time, one strain got a disease and lost all it's leaves the other strain is in experiment mode testing the defoilation crap out will be writing a ditty on it soon but can tell ya that removing leaves makes smaller buds thing I always say is now proven with pics comming
> 
> and sorry to all for being away so much but the good news is it's because of a new lady in my life


 
You old dog you! Good for you. Wish you both years of happiness.

And as far as 'cut your fans. cut your yield.' I dont know if we will ever actually drive that point home. Just cutting a few is all it takes to reduce your yield.


----------



## kingofqueen (Dec 2, 2010)

Congrats on the new lady Riddleme ! The defoilation experiment will be interesting to see . I never understood why people do that , alot of times I have big fanleaves blocking buds i just train them to the side , I have noticed that the green on the bud being blocked will be pale in color . But I only clip leaves at the bottom that are blocking me from watering or wont stay out of the dirt . I think fan leaves should be thought of as "solar cells " collecting energy for the plant , why downsize your solar field ? More power baby ! not less ! 
Hope your experiment proves some interesting points . I'm going to clip a sample bud tonight and run it through my box to see what kinda results I get , hope it turns out gooey yummy like yours !


----------



## Danielsgb (Dec 2, 2010)

Great to hear RM3
Daniels


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## riddleme (Dec 2, 2010)

There are gonna be times when we, as growers, have problems. The truth here is that the newer the grower the bigger the panic. I love this plant just as much as any grower (or smoker) but when ya have a problem ya gotta decide whether to try and fix it or cut your loses and start over? 

In my current case it just so happens that a I just had a good harvest so the lower yields is not a problem. and I was invited to read a thread (over 100 pages) on another site about defoiliation technique for higher yields. It was a good thread, good info but somewhat misrepresented, our own Dave C was there and contributed some good post (as he does) with some good questions. Now if you take away the notion that this will give you higher yields and look at the technique as a management technique like LST'ing then I believe it has merit and will do it in the next round to see that for myself. Because I came away from reading the thread with the notion that it is the set up using this technique that gives the potential higher yield from a smaller plant, and note the smaller plant part because the reality of the OP's info was he does this to train the plants to his growspace. IMO I believe it could be very useful used on sativas to tighten internode spacing and reduce the stretch,,,which is the intent of the technique (note it adds a few weeks to your veg time) here is the thread, http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163 if anybody wants to read it.

When I put the tomato cages on my current plants I believe it introduced a bad bacteria to the root system (though it could have been caused by rust?) the reason I think bacteria is because adding H2O2 seemed to fix it, but after all the leaves had died. You'll be able to see that new growth is green and healthy and I plan on re-veggin em after harvest now that they are healthier. This disease only affected the NL Special (tilders) the #1's are completely healthy note I have 2 small tilders that did not get cages and they are healthy as well though small  it is quite obvious that the buds are much smaller on these recoverering plants with no leaves.

The intended actual experiment was done on the 3 #1's and I totally did this to prove the point. In that thread growers were talking about removing leaves on the 21st and 45th day of flowering and that is what I did. I have 3 #1's, all clones from DD (who was my highest yielder) on one I removed all but the sugar leaves, on the second I removed only the larger fan leaves and one I left alone. In the pics you can clearly see that the one I left alone has a 12 inch cola the other 2 are 6 and 7 inches. you can also clearly see that the one with no leaves is making light airy buds, which I found interesting as the posters of this technique claimed that it tightened up the lower popcorn buds, now to be fair these plants have 3 more weeks to go 

IMO the myth is busted but I will watch em and report until they are done

I also included some bud porn for your viewing pleasure,,,,,,,Enjoy


----------



## cgrizzle3 (Dec 2, 2010)

I think you should never cut them, only when they get brittle enough to pull off easily, should they go...


cowboylogic said:


> You old dog you! Good for you. Wish you both years of happiness.
> 
> And as far as 'cut your fans. cut your yield.' I dont know if we will ever actually drive that point home. Just cutting a few is all it takes to reduce your yield.


----------



## bigman4270 (Dec 2, 2010)

Glad to see the result's of the experiment. Proof is in the pudding as they say although I was convinced wothout seeing them. Maybe now they will believe and that's cool too. Everyone is entitled to there own beliefs but it's to bad for them because they are obviously missing out in the end. 

Thank's for all you do and congrats on the good fortune thats come your way.

Peace

Big


----------



## Illumination (Dec 2, 2010)

riddleme said:


> There are gonna be times when we, as growers, have problems. The truth here is that the newer the grower the bigger the panic. I love this plant just as much as any grower (or smoker) but when ya have a problem ya gotta decide whether to try and fix it or cut your loses and start over?
> 
> In my current case it just so happens that a I just had a good harvest so the lower yields is not a problem. and I was invited to read a thread (over 100 pages) on another site about defoiliation technique for higher yields. It was a good thread, good info but somewhat misrepresented, our own Dave C was there and contributed some good post (as he does) with some good questions. Now if you take away the notion that this will give you higher yields and look at the technique as a management technique like LST'ing then I believe it has merit and will do it in the next round to see that for myself. Because I came away from reading the thread with the notion that it is the set up using this technique that gives the potential higher yield from a smaller plant, and note the smaller plant part because the reality of the OP's info was he does this to train the plants to his growspace. IMO I believe it could be very useful used on sativas to tighten internode spacing and reduce the stretch,,,which is the intent of the technique (note it adds a few weeks to your veg time) here is the thread, http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163 if anybody wants to read it.
> 
> ...


Beautiful buds and good to know that we were correct...that's one thing folks...you not gonna bs RM3..He and UB *KNOW THEIR SHIT*

And RM3 will prove or disprove it. Hat's off once again Teach...

Namaste'


----------



## Illumination (Dec 2, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> Glad to see the result's of the experiment. Proof is in the pudding as they say although I was convinced wothout seeing them. Maybe now they will believe and that's cool too. Everyone is entitled to there own beliefs but it's to bad for them because they are obviously missing out in the end.
> 
> Thank's for all you do and congrats on the good fortune thats come your way.
> 
> ...


Where's the Y's? LOL.... That shit is hard to do..lol

I quit too...for now

Namaste'


----------



## bigman4270 (Dec 2, 2010)

Illumination said:


> Where's the Y's? LOL.... That shit is hard to do..lol
> 
> I quit too...for now
> 
> Namaste'


That shit is hard! Oh I'm sure the opportunity will show itself again.


----------



## riddleme (Dec 2, 2010)

bigman4270 said:


> That shit is hard! Oh I'm sure the opportunity will show itself again.


but it was funny


----------



## cowboylogic (Dec 3, 2010)

ies yt was...... RIU Latyn.


----------



## gumball (Dec 3, 2010)

No, RYU Latyn


----------



## cowboylogic (Dec 3, 2010)

gumball said:


> No, RYU Latyn


I was just trying to protect the integrity of the website from our simpleton banter! LMAO


----------



## bigman4270 (Dec 3, 2010)

cowboylogic said:


> I was just trying to protect the integrity of the website from our simpleton banter! LMAO


You guis are freakyng crazi!


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## Illumination (Dec 3, 2010)

wow can't belyeve Y myssed yt!!!

Namaste'


----------



## gumball (Dec 12, 2010)

its funny riddleme, i was just checking on this thread and looked to see if you been around, and wouldnt you know your looking on this thread right now too.  hope you doing well and all is good for ya


----------



## rastadred22 (Dec 12, 2010)

yea man hope all is well!...hows everything comin along? must be almost ready to harvest now huh


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## riddleme (Dec 12, 2010)

Want to take a few minutes to bring this thread to an end. Current clone in tomato cages grow is now harvested in the chamber, that one 12 inch cola was 31 grams wet, due to the fact that I did the leaf removal experiment I trimmed the buds prior to putting them in the chamber and did not drown em as I am finishing the bottom half of the plants and then intend to reveg em (need some tilders to back cross the new beans to, beans have popped I am looking to see what the difference is with trimmed buds in the chamber??? have a feeling it will be more similar to regular drying???

As for the IR experiment? I have already told you that the plants love the heat and that they "wake up" and respond to it every morning, also that it gives you very nice control over temps (and humidity) I can now tell you that the buds nearest the heater were def more dense than those furthest away from it (smoke test comming soon to compare them) Due to the fact that most leaves were either trimmed or lost on this grow I will continue the IR experiment and report further observations as I see em  But I am very pleased with the one plant that retained its leaves and this gives me hope that the IR will be a helpful addition to my garden, just need to keep watchin it to confirm what I have seen thus far.

I will be starting a new grow journal shortly and as everyone that hangs in my threads knows this thread is done but prolly won't die  The main purpose of this next grow thread will be to do a side by side of *SmokeNgrow nutes versus Jack's* I am very much looking forward to this for reasons I can not reveal as of yet  

I will also be doing that defoliation training experiment as part of this next round, we saw that the removing leaves on the 21st and 45th days of flower was a total waste of time  

Want to thank every one that followed and contributed to this thread and hope you'll all join me in the next one, I will post a link here once I start it


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## DaveCoulier (Dec 12, 2010)

Its been fun following along Riddleme. Congrats on the many successful harvests you had in here. 

Im not surprised the defoliated plants didn't turn out well. The whole crux of that defoliation thread is to create short compact plants by defoliation in veg and then reap the 'rewards' in flower, *but* there are much better ways to create compact plants before flowering that dont involve maiming the plants.


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## kingofqueen (Dec 13, 2010)

Well it has been a good tread Riddleme ! Just think of all the people you have helped ! Your doing a side by side with cannanutes and jacks?
I got a side by side going now with Organic nutes versus Jacks . I,m going to run both on this run and get my feet wet with Jacks.


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## bigman4270 (Dec 13, 2010)

Can't wait for the next one. It's been a blast around here.

Peace my friend

Big


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## cowboylogic (Dec 13, 2010)

Its been a pleasure hanging in the shadows and watching this one Riddle, fine work as always. See ya on the next and tell the new Femmed Riddleme hi! lol Happy Trails Pal...........


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## Illumination (Dec 13, 2010)

Can't wait for the new thread...I too will be doing a complete smoke n grow versus jack's on a coop grow I just embarked upon...1000 w MH then 1000 w HPS for flower on 4 Barney's Farms Amnesia Lemon...should be interesting...still alot of prep work getting the room ready but shouldn't be long

have really enjoyed this and all your threads...have learned so much it is amazing...thank you and don't be a stranger round here

See you round x-mas

Namaste'


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## Danielsgb (Dec 13, 2010)

Great thread again RM3. You've made me a better grower. Listing your help would clog the end of this thread. I hope the holidays treat you Kindly.
I'll be watching for your new experiment.
Daniels


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## riddleme (Dec 19, 2010)

New Thread Here,,,,,,,,,

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/393940-smoke-n-grow-nutes-versus.html#post5061011


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## greenkrakzak (Feb 1, 2011)

great thread man, got the link from (keep it simple) great leasson on the first few pages, kinda skipped the last 80ish pages tho so i missed abit i guess
++man!


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## riddleme (Feb 1, 2011)

greenkrakzak said:


> great thread man, got the link from (keep it simple) great leasson on the first few pages, kinda skipped the last 80ish pages tho so i missed abit i guess
> ++man!


Should take the time to read all my threads  takes awhile but you'll be glad you did


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## greenkrakzak (Feb 1, 2011)

ill check into it man, and keep on pumping em out!


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## legalizeitcanada (Feb 22, 2011)

Hey Riddle, once again thanks for the wealth of knowledge.... was wondering if I could get your 2 cents on my problem here 

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/411054-some-help-please-pics-details.html

Thanks much in advance! Always subscribed!


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## Timmahh (Feb 26, 2011)

this is a great read, i ll be back a few times thru out my grow. im going to try to mimic your setup in alot of ways, and decided i wanted to go ahead and give the nutes you suggest a grow. this is my first grow, and probably my 5th post here on RIU. 

I cant find the Jacks K-Trait. Its not listed on their site. Anyone have an alternative they can suggest?

im going to be getting the 2 Dyna-Gro nutes, but need to figure out what to use for a nice and juicy bloom.
plan to use the molases trick as well near the end.

just looking for a nudge or 2 in some general, this works well direction.

as i noted above, i ll be pretty much using the same products used by riddleme. though instead of ProMix, i may use Dairy-Doo, as they are a local company to me here in Mi, and i like to try to support ANY local manufacturing we have going on. heh.

but anyways, dirt grow, water, CMH 400, setup to be as much on auto pilot as possible as i work out of town m-f.
Thanx for any tips and nudges in the proper direction.
Timmahh


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## riddleme (Feb 26, 2011)

few things, I'm a bit stoned so bear with me 

the K-trait is from thier professional line (different website) I never bought it but ended up using the Peat Lite for the whole grow, worked great, still using it

some strains don't like molasses and too much can lock out N

as for a nudge,,,,read all the links in my sig


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## Timmahh (Feb 26, 2011)

great, thanx for the quick reply. i have been reading thru your nuggets and other threads as well over the last few days. much great info, so dont want to overload, so like nutes taking it in gradually. heh. 

ok i wondered if that may of been a professional line as i couldnt see those products without signing in, i ll good it better to learn more.
i see in the regular line, they have a classis, but its 16-9-23, would that do well? 
sorry for my nubness. just want to get the good info so i can make the right decisions.
i ll google the peat lite too. thanx

i see jacks offers the peat lite in 3 versions. i take it this is the one your referrig to?
*15-11-29 *[FONT=Myriad Pro,Myriad Pro][FONT=Myriad Pro,Myriad Pro]Peat-Lite [/FONT]
[/FONT]
i see they also have this, 
*24-8-16 *[FONT=Myriad Pro,Myriad Pro][FONT=Myriad Pro,Myriad Pro]Tropical Foliage, would this be suitable for veg opposed to the dyno-gro, considering i am usually in the 70s low 80s for room indoors? im not in a basement, so will be a bit warmer, and a bit more humid than what you had going on in the tread here. though i will be hoping to control it[/FONT][/FONT]


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## Danielsgb (Feb 26, 2011)

I use Jack's Classic 20-20-20 and I love it. I add some organics for a boost as needed, but it's my solid base nutrient. Amazingly a RiddleMe tip. I asked a local nursery for that K-trait but they never did call back.
Daniels


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## Illumination (Feb 27, 2011)

Timmahh said:


> this is a great read, i ll be back a few times thru out my grow. im going to try to mimic your setup in alot of ways, and decided i wanted to go ahead and give the nutes you suggest a grow. this is my first grow, and probably my 5th post here on RIU.
> 
> I cant find the Jacks K-Trait. Its not listed on their site. Anyone have an alternative they can suggest?
> 
> ...


foliage pro, Protekt and Magpro is all you need for the entire grow....just mix it according to the ratios needed to conform to the stage of growth...awesome stuff that will make it easy as pie...

Jack's is da bomb as well...as well as smokengrow...check out in my sig...hope it helps

Namaste'


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## AlteredEgo (Mar 3, 2011)

Wow, Just read this whole thread, took a while, lol. It was great, and confirms my independently discovered theory that "Old Skool" grow/cure methods, and really healthy plants produce sweet bad ass buds, and lots of em! Now to go pick some bluegrass and bong myself to sleep.



Came from this Tropical Sativa:

This was grown with primarily sunlight through a south facing window, and a 70w HPS, with 6 CFL's
Took forever, made a little over 3 zips, and is a really happy high.


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## jeb5304 (Mar 4, 2011)

Just found this thread. I got some reading to do.


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## riddleme (Mar 4, 2011)

jeb5304 said:


> Just found this thread. I got some reading to do.


yeppers lots of readin, have fun


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## Illumination (Mar 4, 2011)

riddleme said:


> yeppers lots of readin, have fun



I have found the avie that truly shows an accurate depiction of me

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Mar 4, 2011)

Illumination said:


> I have found the avie that truly shows an accurate depiction of me
> 
> Namaste'


didn't know you had a pierced prick LOL


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## Illumination (Mar 4, 2011)

riddleme said:


> didn't know you had a pierced prick LOL


and what....you felt like you should? LMFAO!!!!

It is a lil undersized in the illustration but you know artists....his gay ass was jealous so he drew it a tad too small

After all we all know it is the Goblin Cock the ladies all love!!!!! Oh Hell Yeah that was good!!

Namaste'


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## riddleme (Mar 4, 2011)

Illumination said:


> and what....you felt like you should? LMFAO!!!!
> 
> It is a lil undersized in the illustration but you know artists....his gay ass was jealous so he drew it a tad too small
> 
> ...


honestly don't think that will fly with the grandmas on the site LMAO


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## Illumination (Mar 4, 2011)

they'll fly right onto it.......

Namaste'


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## oldecrowe (Mar 6, 2011)

Illumination said:


> and what....you felt like you should? LMFAO!!!!
> 
> It is a lil undersized in the illustration but you know artists....his gay ass was jealous so he drew it a tad too small
> 
> ...
















ROFLMAO!


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## sguardians2 (Mar 26, 2011)

Sorry to see this thread end, but I think I've got enough info to try and build my own fermentation chamber!

Thanks so much for all of your excellent teaching and brilliant ideas!


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## riddleme (Mar 26, 2011)

sguardians2 said:


> Sorry to see this thread end, but I think I've got enough info to try and build my own fermentation chamber!
> 
> Thanks so much for all of your excellent teaching and brilliant ideas!


Your very welcome


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## SensiStan (Mar 27, 2011)

i was meaning to bring up that new avatar for a while lol


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## TheLastWood (Apr 8, 2011)

Wow. Just read all 171 pgs. Learned a lot. What a great read.


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Apr 25, 2011)

is this over, am i too late? i havent gotten a chance to read it yet. lol
I LOVE your intro with Balls to the Walls. I love love love that song. i was going to throw it up in my thread at some point. ha
Im going to blast it when i get home.. cool.


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## n00bGrower (May 10, 2011)

My eyes hurt and my head is screaming full of knowledge... Just finished reading THE ENTIRE THREAD. Awesome stuff in there Riddles! My crop is almost done (only 2 plants that I intentionally kept short) but you've seen 'em as you've been one of my gurus from the start. Anyway, after reading THE ENTIRE THREAD I've decided to build my own mini fermenter using the hints and pics you've given us. As a freezer converter (and a grower that is limited to 2 plants LST style) making a fermenter out of a mini fridge I found at the dump seems only natural.

Without giving away too much of your trade secrets, any suggestions or cautions about scaling down the size of the chamber? I think I've become a moderate to advanced manipulator of humidity and temp in my cab right now and I'm confident I can maintain any range I'm shooting for... I'm assuming the temps need to be in the 60 - 70 range and I'm shooting for lower RM so I don't rot the buds.

I'm sure you touched upon the right temp/RM in the thread, but honestly, my brain is reeling from all the readin!

Thanks in advance for your reply and thanks for all the past guidance, both passive and active!


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## Millsie (May 31, 2011)

Does anyone know where riddleme posted that information about putting the roots/plant in a bucket of water to dry out the buds quicker? (Basically suffocating the plant)

I remember reading it awhile ago but I never noted down where I read it from... (Someone wants to dry his buds in a few weeks - so I thought I'd pass on the knowledge )

(I've been searching through riddlemes posts but I can't seem to find the info)


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (May 31, 2011)

Riddlem3 does not live here anymore.


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## Millsie (Jun 1, 2011)

The information that riddle left behind still does though, oh well.
I guess I'll keep on searching..


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## Danielsgb (Jun 1, 2011)

Millsie said:


> Does anyone know where riddleme posted that information about putting the roots/plant in a bucket of water to dry out the buds quicker? (Basically suffocating the plant)
> 
> I remember reading it awhile ago but I never noted down where I read it from... (Someone wants to dry his buds in a few weeks - so I thought I'd pass on the knowledge )
> 
> (I've been searching through riddlemes posts but I can't seem to find the info)


It's in this one. I think you mean how it speeds up the cure from fermentation, no faster drying. Sooner to cured smoke though. In's half way into it if I remember right.
*The Truth About Flushing*


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## legalizeitcanada (Jun 5, 2011)

What happened to riddlem3?? ive been off a while, WTF?


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## urbanfog (Jun 5, 2011)

legalizeitcanada said:


> What happened to riddlem3?? ive been off a while, WTF?


add a .com to his user name in your browser


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## Delux83 (Jun 5, 2011)

wait riddleme is gone?


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## juman (Jun 5, 2011)

I just read this thread from page 1, took me a few days and I can honestly say I was sad when I got to post #1681. This was not only an enjoyable read, it was also extremely informative and I plan to use this extra knowledge on upcoming grows.

Thanks Riddle, you make me proud to be growing in Colorado.


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## MediMary (Jun 5, 2011)

Can anyone confirm that riddle is banned, cause he still has hit little rep star(where someone can rep the guy) it usually vanishes when someone is banned.
like see illumination is banned, here is an example

_https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/347914-balls-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-43.html#post5399955 see _


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## gumball (Jun 6, 2011)

MediMary said:


> Can anyone confirm that riddle is banned, cause he still has hit little rep star(where someone can rep the guy) it usually vanishes when someone is banned.
> like see illumination is banned, here is an example
> 
> _https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/347914-balls-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-43.html#post5399955 see _



I just repped him, and it took, and his avatar and rep bars are back too. The ban must have been lifted. But I dont think he'll be around here much, that other place keeps him real busy. I wonder bout Uncle Ben and Brick Top???


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## mygirls (Jun 6, 2011)

MediMary said:


> Can anyone confirm that riddle is banned, cause he still has hit little rep star(where someone can rep the guy) it usually vanishes when someone is banned.
> like see illumination is banned, here is an example
> 
> _https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/347914-balls-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-43.html#post5399955 see _


he started his own site.. hes not ban any more hes just never coming back..


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## Millsie (Jun 6, 2011)

Danielsgb said:


> It's in this one. I think you mean how it speeds up the cure from fermentation, no faster drying. Sooner to cured smoke though. In's half way into it if I remember right.
> *The Truth About Flushing*


Ugh, it took me ages to reply. but thank you so much  Riddlem3's information is quality..


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## Delux83 (Jun 6, 2011)

What's his site called?


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## Metasynth (Jun 6, 2011)

Delux83 said:


> What's his site called?


If someone tries to tell you, even in PM, they will get banned. I guess someone could email it to you, but if you "advertise" for another site on RIU, they ban your ass


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## juman (Jun 6, 2011)

Metasynth said:


> If someone tries to tell you, even in PM, they will get banned. I guess someone could email it to you, but if you "advertise" for another site on RIU, they ban your ass


I'm still fairly new to RIU but I can't fathom people being banned for posting links to other websites....I understand wanting to keep traffic/ad revenue/views on this website but I'm here to take part in the mj community as a whole (not limiting myself to just RIU's information), learning and growing with others in a peaceful manner. If I'm mistaken then maybe RIU isn't for me, I'll bookmark some links for reference and find another forum.


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## Delux83 (Jun 6, 2011)

I don't think it's that serious bro they donT want u spamming or promoting other sites but mentioning one like icmag Or speedyseedz isn't gonna get u banned. RIU is a AMAZING community lots of info and great people here. Learned more about mj here than anywhere else


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## legalizeitcanada (Jun 7, 2011)

its above on the page before if you read carefully!


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## Delux83 (Jun 7, 2011)

what post # im not sure how many post per page u have set to view


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## legalizeitcanada (Jun 8, 2011)

#1718.......


Delux83 said:


> what post # im not sure how many post per page u have set to view


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## blower (Jun 8, 2011)

YEA riu is good the best as it has alot of fellow growers. but why bann riddleme? hes the best


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## redrum83420 (Jun 8, 2011)

if i get banned this is B.S. riddle is on his own site now. his site is riddlem3.com


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