# Terpenes enhancement and manipulation



## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

ok my fellow peeps here we go. I will make this short as possible just to get the ball rolling. I have a theory about terpenes. I'm not just making this up. I have ran 12 different strains and helped others with a couple more. Trying to figure out why strains with similar THC and CBD profiles affect you differently and how cannabis is medically beneficial. I researched everything the web has. Everyone says it is the THCs or CBDs and finally some think there might be correlation with terpenes. Upon reading this I had an idea that the terps actually are the directors to point the cbds and thcs in the direction you need them to work. Like I said this is all theory and needs further research. The reason I think this is some strains that react differently to your system have close to same thc and cbd profile have different terps. I started studying original landraces and found they actually smelled and tasted like the indigenous plants fund in the region they grew. I also found that terpenes not only have the smell and flavor but they are also used in medicine since the beginning of time. The terps in cannabis have matching terps in nature found in the essential oils of certain plants. To make a long story short. I thought maybe I can increase the terps in my cannabis and make it more affective. It would beat eating mangoes every time you smoke or rubbing your self with lemon grass. So I ran a few tests and found you can increase the smell and flavor with the right oils or completely screw it up. I found that you can match the terpene profile of your strain with the terps in nature and get a better smelling and tasting plant by adding a few drops of the correct oils to your water during flower. It was just highly expensive to do this and you manipulated what the plant actually tasted like. To find a way to make it more economical I devised a spray with purified water and a few drops of essential oils commonly found in sativa strains in a spray bottle and misted the air. To my surprise this made every strain smell like the breeder described every seed grown. Wow no more looking for that elusive smelling and tasting pheno. So if this works with smell and flavor it should work to increase the medical aspect of your plant. Charlottes Web a well known strain used to fight seizures is low in thc high in CBD and high in Linalool. Linalool has an anti seizure affect. Could the correlation be that the thc cbd and terpenes work together to create a common goal. Orange oil is also high in linalool If you added that to your water would you increase the Linalool even higher? Would it make a better medicine that is more affective, so you could use less and get the same results? If so then you could match terps to medical and terps in cannabis and make sure your meds are what you need. The implications are endless. you could personally make sure your cannabis works for you. If this is possible BIG PHARMA will have a serious competitor.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

This theory could be the way to bring the outdoor influence to the indoor grow and also a way dial in your medicine for your specific ailment.


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## qwizoking (Dec 17, 2015)

ummmm

yes?
thats why terps are added to newer pharmaceutical preparations


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## GrowerGoneWild (Dec 17, 2015)

No, you have it wrong, you are adulterating it with your "oils". 

I'll have to look into it but you cannot transport those compounds through the roots. 

The only way you can influence terpene and psychoactive compounds is light selection and lower temps to prevent terpene cookoff.. 

I see now why you were kicked from ICMAG.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> No, you have it wrong, you are adulterating it with your "oils".
> 
> I'll have to look into it but you cannot transport those compounds through the roots.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your reply. You will not find any info on this unless it was written by me first. I have talked to very high people in the industry and no one is doing this. Even though it will harm your plant in no way you use pure essential oils and yes the roots will pick them up I have done the tests. I gave a Afghan Kush eucalyptus and it increased the eucalyptol made a oil with veg glycerin that took away a ganglion cyst and reduced the affects of carpal tunnel without surgery. It is possible to add the terps. In nature plants put terpenes in the air to seed the clouds for rain. Also they use essential oil of basil to create synergy in the flavor of tomatoes. Also essential oils of indigenous plants are found in soil thus the reason the soil puts what region it is from on the bag. Cannabis absorbs things from the environment try spraying febreze in the air and see if it don't affect your plant.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Dec 17, 2015)

I'm sure higher altitudes play a significant role too?


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

I'm not here to argue. I have spent the last three years working on this theory. The possibilities are limitless. There are three types of limonene used by the flavor and perfume industry. Tangerine grapefruit lemon. This theory is sound as far as smell and flavor I am just seriously interested in the medical implications. There is proof of correlation of terps and what their smell and flavor are. I just can't believe no one else has put the puzzle together.


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## tropicalcannabispatient (Dec 17, 2015)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> No, you have it wrong, you are adulterating it with your "oils".
> 
> I'll have to look into it but you cannot transport those compounds through the roots.
> 
> ...


Kicked from icmag? Damn thats cruel..


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> I'm sure higher altitudes play a significant role too?


I guarantee altitude has a lot to do with Thc one of the strongest strains on the planet come from Colorado.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

tropicalcannabispatient said:


> Kicked from icmag? Damn thats cruel..





GrowerGoneWild said:


> No, you have it wrong, you are adulterating it with your "oils".
> 
> I'll have to look into it but you cannot transport those compounds through the roots.
> 
> ...


what is your handle on icmag


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## GrowerGoneWild (Dec 17, 2015)

Josch Edgington said:


> Thank you for your reply. You will not find any info on this unless it was written by me first. I have talked to very high people in the industry and no one is doing this. Even though it will harm your plant in no way you use pure essential oils and yes the roots will pick them up I have done the tests. I gave a Afghan Kush eucalyptus and it increased the eucalyptol made a oil with veg glycerin that took away a ganglion cyst and reduced the affects of carpal tunnel without surgery. It is possible to add the terps. In nature plants put terpenes in the air to seed the clouds for rain. Also they use essential oil of basil to create synergy in the flavor of tomatoes. Also essential oils of indigenous plants are found in soil thus the reason the soil puts what region it is from on the bag. Cannabis absorbs things from the environment try spraying febreze in the air and see if it don't affect your plant.


*Your putting an additive in the plant. You're not manipulating the terpene profile.*

Look this is basic botany here.. if you want to flavor the flowers.. the concept is the same with carnations as well as cannabis. Make a cut like your flowers and put them in a water solution with your flavor that is cut with a solvent like alcohol soluble in water like.. vanilla.. or whatever. That will eventually move into the flowers, its a cheater way to flavor your flowers. 

I see why you were kicked from ICMAG...


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## GrowerGoneWild (Dec 17, 2015)

Josch Edgington said:


> I guarantee altitude has a lot to do with Thc one of the strongest strains on the planet come from Colorado.


Proof please.. 

The only 30%+ strains Im aware of are not from colorado. They are chiquita bannana and GG4.. from RB26.


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## qwizoking (Dec 17, 2015)

you havent discovered anything. and adding eucalyptus oil to your plant isnt the best idea as its a fairly potent herbicide like most secondary plant metabolites


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Dec 17, 2015)

Josch Edgington said:


> In nature plants put terpenes in the air to seed the clouds for rain.


Lol - learn something new everyday.

Well, not yet - it's early.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

sorry tropicalcannabispatient that was not for you. it was directed to growergonewild. sorry hit the wrong key


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> *Your putting an additive in the plant. You're not manipulating the terpene profile.*
> 
> Look this is basic botany here.. if you want to flavor the flowers.. the concept is the same with carnations as well as cannabis. Make a cut like your flowers and put them in a water solution with your flavor that is cut with a solvent like alcohol soluble in water like.. vanilla.. or whatever. That will eventually move into the flowers, its a cheater way to flavor your flowers.
> 
> I see why you were kicked from ICMAG...


Yuck there is nothing natural about that. This makes your plants naturally use the terpenes in their genetics you can force flavor but yuck. I am talking about giving your plants what they already have terpenes which are all that is left in essential oils. You are confusing what _I am talking about. With something that will ruin your dope._


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

the werc shop adds essential oils to their concentrates after making them to match the plants natural profile. This does it during the flower stage so if you cold process your oil using live resin extraction and purge under 85 degrees you lose no terps. Thus there would be no reason to add the oils afterwards.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> you havent discovered anything. and adding eucalyptus oil to your plant isnt the best idea as its a fairly potent herbicide like most secondary plant metabolites


You need to do some research eucalyptus has many health applications. Also cannabis has many insect fighting terps in it already. And adding terpenes that are found in cannabis with an all natural oil that only contains terps is adding terps.


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## bict (Dec 17, 2015)

- germinate seed
- plant seed
- give plant optimal conditions 
- profit

Advanced cannabis 420 grow book 
By bict

That will be 50 dollars please.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

I challenge you all to take one plant and try it. If you are just into smoking then mist the air not the plant if you need medical benefits you would want to add it to your water.


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

This just in!! Someone came up with a groundbreaking concept! Pouring all manner of stuff on a cannabis plant to try to make it more potent!..people have been doing this for thousands of years,pouring crap on your plant probably isnt the answer.Genetic manipulation through selective breeding is the answer.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

bict said:


> - germinate seed
> - plant seed
> - give plant optimal conditions
> - profit
> ...


damn and I don't have pay pal.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> This just in!! Someone came up with a groundbreaking concept! Pouring all manner of stuff on a cannabis plant to try to make it more potent!..people have been doing this for thousands of years,pouring crap on your plant probably isnt the answer.Genetic manipulation through selective breeding is the answer.



Another icmag member you need to get new stuff I got a pretty good memory


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

Lol not me friend..but apparently you heard the wacko genetic argument before I guess...


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## qwizoking (Dec 17, 2015)

i didnt say that it didnt have medicinal benefit 


In general secondary metabolites are toxic and must be held in a storage cavity and indeed thca and cbga cause 100% cell death in 10 day old suspension cultured cannabis sativa cells at 50um(through apoptosis)

your idea of adding essential oils is a little off. they need to be formed in the trichome. and yes these oils are good insecticides as well..because of these same properties. 

i just said it isnt the best idea


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## bict (Dec 17, 2015)

Josch Edgington said:


> damn and I don't have pay pal.


Better get one, I've stumbled onto something ground breaking.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

This is true science though it is much more than most can understand with the hype wagon everyone falls for in this generation. You have to be scientific with it its a lot of back crossing references from genetic profiles of terps and flavors of plants with terps found naturally in nature and their medicinal aspects.


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## paddy510 (Dec 17, 2015)

reckon the first guy to put manure on plants got laughed at?


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## qwizoking (Dec 17, 2015)

do i see another sig forming?


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

Scientific? You mean like all the repeatable,verifiable data you have to prove your groundbreaking theory?


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Also its the combination of terps that make the smell. so just one oil won't give you a premium product and adding too much to your water can choke out your plant. Also if you add the terps not in the genetic makeup you then come up with medicine which will kill the natural flavor of your plant. Look up terpene profiles of certain strains and you will see whats in your palnts to a point because it changes between growers and sampels.


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## chuck estevez (Dec 17, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> do i see another sig forming?


lol


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> Scientific? You mean like all the repeatable,verifiable data you have to prove your groundbreaking theory?


another icmag member why do you guys lurk never using your real names or atleast the same name on every forum. I have nothing to hide this is real. And needs to be shared in hopes it could help someone I am no genius I stumbled across this info researching the medical aspect of cannabis. I just have a very analytical mind and very good at putting to work to see outside the box the powers that be want to keep us in. So adding the oils after to concentrates is ok. but providing your plant with natural influences isn't. And it is natural you smell these plants in nature when you are around them or they blow in on the wind but omg if someone has a different idea than you you rather cast them down than research it for yourself.


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

paddy510 said:


> reckon the first guy to put manure on plants got laughed at?


No,because when you see a 10 foot plant growing out of a pile of manure and a 3 foot plant growing in some rocks..ancient man kinda got a clue.


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## a senile fungus (Dec 17, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> do i see another sig forming?



The real question is if there is a differentiation between real science and true science!

Didn't @Finshaggy do some "research" on perfuming and essential oils? Maybe the OP should collab with him?


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

Josch Edgington said:


> another icmag member why do you guys lurk never using your real names or atleast the same name on every forum. I have nothing to hide this is real. And needs to be shared in hopes it could help someone I am no genius I stumbled across this info researching the medical aspect of cannabis. I just have a very analytical mind and very good at putting to work to see outside the box the powers that be want to keep us in. So adding the oils after to concentrates is ok. but providing your plant with natural influences isn't. And it is natural you smell these plants in nature when you are around them or they blow in on the wind but omg if someone has a different idea that you you rather cast them down than research it for yourself.


Lol im not an icmag member stalking you,im merely skeptic of your groundbreaking concepts...if you cant deal with that,I suggest you consult a psychiatrist or get some actual scientific data for proof.


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## paddy510 (Dec 17, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> .people have been doing this for thousands of years,pouring crap on your plant probably isnt the answer





Resinhound said:


> No,because when you see a 10 foot plant growing out of a pile of manure and a 3 foot plant growing in some rocks..ancient man kinda got a clue.


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

Im sorry but there is a big difference between altering the NPK values of the soil and what the op is suggesting.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Like I said I am not here to argue you can not find references to this anywhere. But you can find correlation between terps and where they are found naturally in other plants and the medical benefits of these terps. Also there are plenty of graphs out on the webz that will help show you the smell and flavor of terps in nature. Pinene= pine, myrcene= lemongrass and ylang ylang linalool =orange. A lot of terps have more than one equal in nature usually leaning to different aspects say sweet versus sour. citrus versus floral so on and so forth. You can pm me if you would like me to work up a strain for you but i am done stating my point I don't care to argue. Just trying to share what I have found to work and try to get some feedback on the medical aspect. If you had cancer wouldn't you want your medicine to contain cancer fighting terps in your oil along with the CBD and THC so you can cause your medicine to be a triple threat to your cancer? Also adding them after the fact is not the same as getting the plant to process them itself.


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

You still misunderstand me...im not saying it doesnt work.But you come in here like you found the secret and you and you alone have come up with these concepts.Im just saying..show some proof.You make claims...you provide proof to back those claims,thats how it works.Thats called science.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Also you can look up the werc shop out of Colorado they are using these oils in their concentrates so I'm pretty sure they cant harm you.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> You still misunderstand me...im not saying it doesnt work.But you come in here like you found the secret and you and you alone have come up with these concepts.Im just saying..show some proof.You make claims...you provide proof to back those claims,thats how it works.


SIR no disrespect but if you read the post it says theory. A theory has no documented evidence. thus the word theory being key. I said you wont find any info accept from me because there are no other articles regarding essential oils and cannabis growing. Not that I alone figured this out. this is all a result of different research put together like a puzzle after three years of trial and error.


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## paddy510 (Dec 17, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> im not saying it doesnt work.





Resinhound said:


> ,pouring crap on your plant probably isnt the answer.Genetic manipulation through selective breeding is the answer.





Resinhound said:


> show some proof.You make claims...you provide proof to back those claims,thats how it works.Thats called science.





Resinhound said:


> Im sorry but there is a big difference between altering the NPK values of the soil and what the op is suggesting.


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

Well then go test your "theory" and come back here with your verifiable,repeatable data or you dont get any credit for your groundbreaking theory.I wont be testing your theory by dousing my medicine with volatile substances just because...joe blow from the interwebs has a theory.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Dec 17, 2015)

I wonder......now high in elevation one could go and still have there plants FLOURISH.....like the ande's mtns or Himalayan ranges


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> Well then go test your "theory" and come back here with your verifiable,repeatable data or you dont get any credit for your groundbreaking theory.I wont be testing your theory by dousing my medicine with volatile substances just because...joe blow from the interwebs has a theory.


You truly need to go back to icmag. I don't need to prove anything my medicine kills my pain no matter what strain I grow I ensure that by providing the necessary terps for pain relief. I was just trying to share. You just like arguing on the interwebz hiding behind a false name. Like I said I have nothing to hide use the info or don't.

I prefer to make sure my medicine works for me instead of playing Russian roulette with a number of strains. Its more cost affective to my pocket.


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

Lol ok dude...ill go back to icmag now...I thought I could stalk you here,but I guess I was wrong...you caught me.Lol you have delusions of grandeur,but whatever...lol paranoia


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## paddy510 (Dec 17, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> Lol you have delusions of grandeur,but whatever...lol paranoia





Resinhound said:


> Im just saying..show some proof.You make claims...you provide proof to back those claims,thats how it works.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Like I said I won't be drawn into arguments done stating the obvious. Do the research and ensure your cannabis works for you.


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

Josch Edgington said:


> Like I said I won't be drawn into arguments done stating the obvious. Do the research and ensure your cannabis works for you.


Its your claim...you do the research,and get back to me with the results.Good day to you.


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## bict (Dec 17, 2015)

Josch Edgington said:


> SIR no disrespect but if you read the post it says theory. A theory has no documented evidence. thus the word theory being key. I said you wont find any info accept from me because there are no other articles regarding essential oils and cannabis growing. Not that I alone figured this out. this is all a result of different research put together like a puzzle after three years of trial and error.


There's a huge difference between a theory and scientific theory.... 

Scientific theory - something that can be observed or tested

Eg evolution Is a theory because we can observe it via bones. No guessing work or pulling shit out of ones own ass at play.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

If you are a MMJ patient with serious problems and are interested in my findings I will help free of charge don't need recognition.
I have a lot of family that have died due to modern pharma and I want to see them stop claiming our citizens with their medication designed to claim the week with their population control. I want nothing but to see people get better. If I am wrong for that then so be it. All life contains an endocannabinoid system.


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## paddy510 (Dec 17, 2015)

"Theory

_plural_ *the·o·ries*


_1_ : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another


_2_ : abstract thought : speculation


_3_ : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art _<music theory>_


_4a_ : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action _<her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn>b_ : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase _in theory_ _<in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all>_


_5_ : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena _<the wave theory of light>
_
*6a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation *_b_ : an unproved assumption : conjecture_ c_ : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject _<theory of equations>_
 "



bict said:


> No guessing work or pulling shit out of ones own ass at play.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Like I said just here to help not argue. If you don't like my thread then don't read it. If you don't like my theory then don't use it. If you think you can't match the terpene profile of a strain with essential oils then don't do it. If you are seriously needing your medicine I have it on very high authority from a terpene expert that this method can not hurt you or your medicine. So if it can't hurt you and terpenes are useful against certain ailments and afflictions from prostate cancer to Alzheimers then what would it hurt to give it a shot.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 17, 2015)

Oh and all doubters need to get off the pipe and eat a bowl of .............. ha ha ha


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

So now this industry has "higher ups" and figures of "high authority" huh....interesting....just lol.


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## paddy510 (Dec 17, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> huh





Resinhound said:


> just lol.





Resinhound said:


> Good day to you.





Resinhound said:


> but whatever


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## Resinhound (Dec 17, 2015)

paddy510 said:


> manure





paddy510 said:


> plants





paddy510 said:


> laughed





paddy510 said:


> _6_a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigatio


A *hypothesis* (plural _hypotheses_) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it.


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## paddy510 (Dec 17, 2015)

Resinhound said:


> a proposed explanation for a phenomenon





paddy510 said:


> assumed for the sake of argument or investigation





Resinhound said:


> you dont get any credit


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## rkymtnman (Dec 17, 2015)

I've got the best Skunk #1 in CO because I let a skunk into my grow room and have him spray them down right before I chop


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## Igotthe6 (Dec 17, 2015)

rkymtnman said:


> I've got the best Skunk #1 in CO because I let a skunk into my grow room and have him spray them down right before I chop


Can I get a pound of that?


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## VTMi'kmaq (Dec 17, 2015)

Pe pe le pew......
Can we grow on the moon? Just curious


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## Michael Huntherz (Dec 17, 2015)

OP you have a hunch, and you have anecdotal evidence for it. You do not have a theory. 
There is nothing in botany that supports your claim. It would be best for you if you get to work, build some real data and keep your ideas to yourself until you have it. I believe you really want to help people, but I think you want your ego stroked even more. I wish you luck but I think you need to be educated further on the subject before you attempt to educate others. Peace.


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## rkymtnman (Dec 17, 2015)

Igotthe6 said:


> Can I get a pound of that?


it is sold out for now. i am working on a Pine-Sol coated strain right now that if you don't mind your lungs bleeding for a few months is the shit


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 17, 2015)

Josch Edgington said:


> I guarantee altitude has a lot to do with Thc one of the strongest strains on the planet come from Colorado.


What strain is this that comes from this elevation and how long has its genetic offspring spent there?


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## Igotthe6 (Dec 17, 2015)

I want to see this 3 lbs under a 1000 watt light.Do they realize that you dry it before you wiegh it? I've been growing for the better part of 40 years and haven't seen anything close,even with co2. I had a guy try and tell me he was getting 4 lbs/1000 watt......Called him out,yea I grew better looking pot from bagseed at 12.


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 17, 2015)

Igotthe6 said:


> I want to see this 3 lbs under a 1000 watt light.Do they realize that you dry it before you wiegh it? I've been growing for the better part of 40 years and haven't seen anything close,even with co2. I had a guy try and tell me he was getting 4 lbs/1000 watt......Called him out,yea I grew better looking pot from bagseed at 12.


If you are talking about my sig, i was mocking somebody that claimed 3lbs dry under a single ended 1kw lol. Its pretty hard to hit over 2lbs imo but 3lbs is ubbeard of for my eyes.


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## Igotthe6 (Dec 17, 2015)

SPLFreak808 said:


> If you are talking about my sig, i was mocking somebody that claimed 3lbs dry under a single ended 1kw lol. Its pretty hard to hit over 2lbs imo but 3lbs is ubbeard of for my eyes.


Yea I was. I always though with descent yeilders 1-1.5 lbs. was damn good.I don't run co2 and am using tents,I kinda dig them. easy to control enviroment. A microclimate kinda.My last grow was around 680 grams with El fuego from dna. Ended up with root rot last 2 weeks Was my first tent grow.


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## SPLFreak808 (Dec 17, 2015)

Igotthe6 said:


> Yea I was. I always though with descent yeilders 1-1.5 lbs. was damn good.I don't run co2 and am using tents,I kinda dig them. easy to control enviroment. A microclimate kinda.My last grow was around 680 grams with El fuego from dna. Ended up with root rot last 2 weeks Was my first tent grow.


So many little things will swing that number greatly. Mainly genetics and environment.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 18, 2015)

Igotthe6 said:


> I want to see this 3 lbs under a 1000 watt light.Do they realize that you dry it before you wiegh it? I've been growing for the better part of 40 years and haven't seen anything close,even with co2. I had a guy try and tell me he was getting 4 lbs/1000 watt......Called him out,yea I grew better looking pot from bagseed at 12.


I have seen 3 under 2 - 1000 watt bulbs but they had to be newer bulbs and then just made weight.


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## Dr. Who (Dec 30, 2015)

Josch Edgington said:


> Like I said I am not here to argue you can not find references to this anywhere. But you can find correlation between terps and where they are found naturally in other plants and the medical benefits of these terps. Also there are plenty of graphs out on the webz that will help show you the smell and flavor of terps in nature. Pinene= pine, myrcene= lemongrass and ylang ylang linalool =orange. A lot of terps have more than one equal in nature usually leaning to different aspects say sweet versus sour. citrus versus floral so on and so forth. You can pm me if you would like me to work up a strain for you but i am done stating my point I don't care to argue. Just trying to share what I have found to work and try to get some feedback on the medical aspect. If you had cancer wouldn't you want your medicine to contain cancer fighting terps in your oil along with the CBD and THC so you can cause your medicine to be a triple threat to your cancer? Also adding them after the fact is not the same as getting the plant to process them itself.


Horse shit kid. High Times did a piece on the link between different effects due to specific terps a few months back.

So we all can bet on where you got the "idea".


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 31, 2015)

Dr. Who said:


> Horse shit kid. High Times did a piece on the link between different effects due to specific terps a few months back.
> 
> So we all can bet on where you got the "idea".


I brought this up on several forums over a year ago. The article in high times says nothing about using essential oils during grow. The article did strengthen my thoughts of the correlation of the terps thc and cbd working together. So youngster you might need to look just a lil further. The only mention of essential oils in an article, they use them to add to their concemtrates. This method I have only found collaborating evidence in one sentence in an aromatherapy book. That was talking about tomatoes. So you show me one place that this is mentioned I really would like to discuss with that person the possibilities. In the High Times article they only told you about terpenes and how they might affect the smoke saying that in the future people would use these terps to enhance their bud. I'm saying I have been doing this the last three years with tremendous success. I moved to Colorado and was told by the trichome institute it was impossible, The addition of oils would kill your plants. Jorge Cervantes even told me it was interesting and needed looked into. I read everything I can on terpenes it is a very interesting subject. I have done it and it works if you get the right combination, if you don't your pot tastes like shit. The trick is never adding what isn't there and you always get the best smoke. On the other hand, If you make an oil and cold process it and purge at under 85 degrees you will keep your terps in the oil. When I started this research Rick Simpson said you needed to get rid of the volatile terps. Now he has changed to cold processing and keeping the terps. If your growing to produce oil to help with your ailment then you can add what terps will help your ailment even if they aren't present in your strain. Then you could assure your medicine works for you without looking for that ever elusive just the right pheno. So maybe doc you can try to read my post not just skim I'm not trying to a know it all but they have already started the research and will be doing this soon. Wouldn't you rather be able to produce a medicine that you know has all the right stuff? That you grew yourself and know for a fact what your producing has the capabilities to help you to the fullest? I have sent this to quite a few magazines. I bet there will be an article very soon on this subject not the terpene subject but the essential oils subject. Just watch and see.


----------



## qwizoking (Dec 31, 2015)

your such a moron



and so is rick simpson btw


----------



## Josch Edgington (Dec 31, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> your such a moron
> 
> 
> 
> and so is rick simpson btw


Bro I don't know why your criticizing me? I just mentioned a subject I am practicing and getting great results with and you mock me. Rick Simpson is known for using cannabis oil to treat cancer. I just want the info out there so no one gets rich off something you can do yourself. Try it or don't, like I said repeatedly, It all comes down to the recipe Ive been working on the combinations for the last three years and have improved several crops grown by individuals that know everything about growing just like you. I don't need to prove anything I already have.


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 31, 2015)

Dr. Who said:


> Horse shit kid. High Times did a piece on the link between different effects due to specific terps a few months back.
> 
> So we all can bet on where you got the "idea".


Go read the article. Never once does it mention adding essential oils to your grow. It does how ever strengthen my argument with facts correlating the THC CBD and Terpenes working together. So now I'm not stupid? Some of you really crack me up.


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## qwizoking (Dec 31, 2015)

we all know thc etc and terps etc work together..along with esters aldehydes alcohols etc


theres even a sticky about this


your still stupid


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## Josch Edgington (Dec 31, 2015)

lol


----------



## Dr. Who (Jan 1, 2016)

Frankinweed with the all new powerful flavor of shit you don't really want to smoke, OILS Mmm yummy!


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## Josch Edgington (Jan 1, 2016)

Dr. Who said:


> Frankinweed with the all new powerful flavor of shit you don't really want to smoke, OILS Mmm yummy!


You smoke those oils every time you light up. They are present in cannabis. Even you will someday use this method to enhance your indoor garden just wait and see.


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## Dr. Who (Jan 1, 2016)

Josch Edgington said:


> You smoke those oils every time you light up. They are present in cannabis. Even you will someday use this method to enhance your indoor garden just wait and see.


I will never give my plant "oil of Koala bear food".....I'll only use it in my cough drops...


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## Josch Edgington (Jan 1, 2016)

lol some strains already contain eucalyptol. You might want to steer clear of them also.


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## SPLFreak808 (Jan 1, 2016)

Can someone let me know when this "theory" gets solved? Shouldn't be long now!


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## Josch Edgington (Jan 2, 2016)

Not too bad for someone who knows nothing. One plant probably get about five ounces plants final height was three an a half feet. Now I guess you guys do better, but I'm happy with my results. Till next time.


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## chuck estevez (Jan 2, 2016)

LOL


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Jan 2, 2016)

Josch Edgington said:


> Not too bad for someone who knows nothing. One plant probably get about five ounces plants final height was three an a half feet. Now I guess you guys do better, but I'm happy with my results. Till next time.


 Nobody said you couldn't grow a plant. What we're trying to say is your "theory" is whack-sauce pseudoscience, and by whack sauce I mean masturbatory, and by pseudoscience I mean complete and utter bullshit.


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## chuck estevez (Jan 2, 2016)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Nobody said you couldn't grow a plant. What we're trying to say is your "theory" is whack-sauce pseudoscience, and by whack sauce I mean masturbatory, and by pseudoscience I mean complete and utter bullshit.


Yep, I never said he couldn't grow a plant, i said his plants look like shit, because they do. He claims they bleed red as a good thing, not knowing his plants are infested and deficient.


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## Resinhound (Jan 2, 2016)

Josch Edgington said:


> Upon reading this I had an idea that the terps actually are the directors to point * the cbds and thcs * in the direction you need them to work.





Josch Edgington said:


> * You have to be scientific with it *


Ya you really have to be scientifical when you mess with all these thc's and cdb's.Continue with your course professor.


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## Josch Edgington (Jan 3, 2016)

Did you know that quercitin Is a know cancer fighting terp. It is found in certain strains of cannabis. It is also found in red wine. If you add two table spoons of red wine to your watering during flower you could possibly increase the amount of quercitin in your plants final product.


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## qwizoking (Jan 3, 2016)

no you wont



and thats not a terp


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## Josch Edgington (Jan 4, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> no you wont
> 
> 
> 
> and thats not a terp


Good point but just to clear things up I have been typing about smell and FLAVOR and possible medicinal benefits. Yes quercitin is a flavonoid found in fruits veggies leafy plants. Forgive me for classifying them together, I do that because you can't address one without the other. Smell and flavor go together.


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## qwizoking (Jan 4, 2016)

lmao
i know they sound similar


*"Flavonoids* (or *bioflavonoids*) (from the Latin word _flavus_ meaning yellow, their color in nature)

Flavonoids are the most important plant pigments for flower coloration, producing yellow or red/blue pigmentation in petals designed to attract pollinator animals. In higher plants, flavonoids are involved in UV filtration, symbiotic nitrogen fixation and floral pigmentation. They may also act as chemical messengers, physiological regulators, and cell cycle inhibitors. Flavonoids secreted by the root of their host plant help.."





their tase is just bitter...

the terpenes esters and all that create both taste and smell.

come on man use your nogin


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## chuck estevez (Jan 4, 2016)

I have been dumping cherry pie on top of my pot that has the strain 'cherry pie' in it, Oh Boy, this is gonna be great!!


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## qwizoking (Jan 4, 2016)

but is it organic pie?


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## bmgnoot (Jan 9, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I have been dumping cherry pie on top of my pot that has the strain 'cherry pie' in it, Oh Boy, this is gonna be great!!


by god why didnt i think of that... adding to my nute lineup asap. how far into flowering should i apply the pie slices to the topsoil? is it already too late? am i screwed?


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## Detroit J420 (Jan 20, 2016)

"Terpinator Bytches!! use it, its all organic looks and tastes fucken good i give my bytches 1 shot glass per gallon, and then i do a shot of it too, its soo good, makes em stink! makes em goowiiii chop a nugg off throw it at the wall n watch it stick!!


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## a mongo frog (Jan 20, 2016)

Detroit J420 said:


> "Terpinator Bytches!! use it, its all organic looks and tastes fucken good i give my bytches 1 shot glass per gallon, and then i do a shot of it too, its soo good, makes em stink! makes em goowiiii chop a nugg off throw it at the wall n watch it stick!!


Yea i know what you mean. It tastes so good!!!!! If it wasn't so expensive id make it my regular drink of choice!!!!


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## personal lux (Jan 21, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> No, you have it wrong, you are adulterating it with your "oils".
> 
> I'll have to look into it but you cannot transport those compounds through the roots.
> 
> ...


Actually running Temps higher at night and allowing them to be colder in the first hour of lights on during the day produces a shorter plant with a higher terp profile due to an enzyme that is produced in this scenario.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Jan 21, 2016)

personal lux said:


> Actually running Temps higher at night and allowing them to be colder in the first hour of lights on during the day produces a shorter plant with a higher terp profile due to an enzyme that is produced in this scenario.


Interesting.. I'll have to look into that.. thank you.


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## since1991 (Jan 22, 2016)

Terpinator is strain dependent in my experience. Some of my stuff just gets silly with it. A definite noticeable difference. Some strains do the same whether i use it or not. I start out at 10ml in early flower and bump it up all the way to 25 ml per gallon in peak flower. And keep it there. I buy it at the store every now and again if i got extra coin after i buy my consumables like coco coir ,bulbs, and base nutes...but its not a deal breaker. My sour og loves the shit. I get alot more trichome development with it. Few other strains as well.


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## Canna_Man (Jan 23, 2016)

If you want to increase oils and terpenes. Use terpinator, insect frass and mag/sulfur and thats all you need. They got products all over the place that boost essential oils and terps that are cheap as hell and highly effective. And you also need good genetics and a perfect environment which is critical for getting the most out of your plants.. Also i have been exprimenting with actinic LED lighting in the 420-460 NM range that I use during flowering. 

Im actually running these blues only during lights off period during flowering and getting insane results, so far has 0 effect on my floweing phase and has increased plant size and resin/oil content from the added UVB AND NM SPECIFIC light frequency. I am using the 90w UFO Actinics.


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## Canna_Man (Jan 23, 2016)

If you are growing organic go grab a bad of insect frass you can get a couple pounds for few dollars. Humboldt county growers been using this for years and is still little known secret. Check it out shit is no joke and works really well!!!


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## GrowerGoneWild (Jan 23, 2016)

Terpinators MSDS lists:
CAS No.*7778-80-5*
Chemical Name:*Potassium sulfate* 

I gave terpinator a try it was too spendy for me, it did work at the higher levels suggested. Its and I was using raw potassium sulfate and epsoms to boost sulfur, there seems to be some research that the terpene family is somehow related to sulfur. 

I tried the actinic lights too.. with the terpinator.... 10,000K solis tec finisher light.. It seemed to work.. but the ripening finish times took longer. 

I brought a bag for the waitress, at this spot I go to all the time, it was soo stinky.. Chemdog with terpinator and the solis tec light. I should have triple bagged, everybody around me was talking.. "somebodys got some good stuff." .. That stupid north face jacket I got had those breathable pockets.


----------



## since1991 (Jan 23, 2016)

Yeah....sulphur increases flavor of greenhouse tomato growers. Size smell and color too. Mag sulphate in early bloom and potassium sulphate in later stages of flower will make shit happen. P sulphate is standard in the big commercial vegetable greenhouse growers arsenal. It works for me in the basement for sure. High phosphorus levels in early flower....back them off later. Its the potssium and sulpher that makes a banging crop if you got really good genetics. If you dont like to make your own and have the extra money....something like Botanicare Sweet in early flower and switch over to Terpinator about week 4 or 5 will get her done. Ive used this with Ionic grow and bloom with humic acid and silica and its pretty fool proof. Big relationship between humics, vitamins and aminos and calcium,magnesium,sulphur and potassium . Time all this rite in your tanks and buds turn out extremely smelly, tasty and potent as hell


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 25, 2016)

Josch Edgington said:


> ok my fellow peeps here we go. I will make this short as possible just to get the ball rolling. I have a theory about terpenes. I'm not just making this up.


Not another theory!

....and I have a dream.


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## Detroit J420 (Jan 26, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Terpinator is strain dependent in my experience. Some of my stuff just gets silly with it. A definite noticeable difference. Some strains do the same whether i use it or not. I start out at 10ml in early flower and bump it up all the way to 25 ml per gallon in peak flower. And keep it there. I buy it at the store every now and again if i got extra coin after i buy my consumables like coco coir ,bulbs, and base nutes...but its not a deal breaker. My sour og loves the shit. I get alot more trichome development with it. Few other strains as well.


all i grow n smoke is a cut i picked outta a shitload of sour og seeds from dna, when it comes to a loud smell OG is where its at, and the best tasting smoke on the planet is sour dee.. OGs a staple in cali, and sour dee is the staple in new york, runnen the best of the east n west coast... my shit aint the strongest.. but its a damn good long lasting quality high with unbeatable loud stank and mouthwatering flavor, im gettin to old to be fucken around with the crazy nevills hazez n all the other trippy shit out there.. Terpenes is where its at and they play a major role in the high


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## since1991 (Jan 26, 2016)

I dont know where my sour og is from. I got it from a friend of a friend years ago but its the most consistent in my line up. Big buds too. Upper medium potency. If i could bump up that one to like more of a og (kosher, grail) in the strength i would keep her another 7 years.


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## a mongo frog (Jan 26, 2016)

Detroit J420 said:


> all i grow n smoke is a cut i picked outta a shitload of sour og seeds from dna, when it comes to a loud smell OG is where its at, and the best tasting smoke on the planet is sour dee.. OGs a staple in cali, and sour dee is the staple in new york, runnen the best of the east n west coast... my shit aint the strongest.. but its a damn good long lasting quality high with unbeatable loud stank and mouthwatering flavor, im gettin to old to be fucken around with the crazy nevills hazez n all the other trippy shit out there.. Terpenes is where its at and they play a major role in the high


Agreed. Well said.


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## since1991 (Jan 26, 2016)

Something about Sour Diesel and Og Kush works for some reason. The 2 pair nicely together. Largely dependent on what your actually working with but generally the 2 together makes a great hybrid. Not uber potent but alot of normal (lol) people dont wanna get blasted to the stratosphere a the time. The majority of smokers i know do not have a seriously high tolerance and medium potency weed is just fine for them. Especially older people and chicks. It works for me because alot of the pig yeilders are medium to upper medium in potency. I like big gals. And the taste and smell is on point. To me Sour × Og is the modern day NL#5 x SK#1 that was in all the growrooms back in the olden days.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Jan 27, 2016)

Some thoughts about metal oxides having influence on terpene expression.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=318652&page=3


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## Detroit J420 (Jan 28, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Something about Sour Diesel and Og Kush works for some reason. The 2 pair nicely together. Largely dependent on what your actually working with but generally the 2 together makes a great hybrid. Not uber potent but alot of normal (lol) people dont wanna get blasted to the stratosphere a the time. The majority of smokers i know do not have a seriously high tolerance and medium potency weed is just fine for them. Especially older people and chicks. It works for me because alot of the pig yeilders are medium to upper medium in potency. I like big gals. And the taste and smell is on point. To me Sour × Og is the modern day NL#5 x SK#1 that was in all the growrooms back in the olden days.


The cut i picked out of dna's sour og has a nice relaxing sedative but functioning high.. but the part i love is it has this 4-5 second spike in the high thats extra crazy, trippy and overpowering.. but scince it only lasts 4-5 secounds you cant really call it overpowering. it hits like once, twice a minute.. good enough for me..


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## Josch Edgington (Jan 30, 2016)

That's all cool guys just try my method and you will smell and taste the difference. I have grew a few strains and quite a few autos and helped other growers achieve some amazing results. Don't knock it before you try it.


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## Joedank (Jan 30, 2016)

personal lux said:


> Actually running Temps higher at night and allowing them to be colder in the first hour of lights on during the day produces a shorter plant with a higher terp profile due to an enzyme that is produced in this scenario.


best post i have seen from you yet 
now this will change a plant for the better . lots of papers about running inversions in horticulture/...


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## GrowerGoneWild (Jan 30, 2016)

Josch Edgington said:


> That's all cool guys just try my method and you will smell and taste the difference. I have grew a few strains and quite a few autos and helped other growers achieve some amazing results. Don't knock it before you try it.


The burden of proof is on you. I literally need a lab printout showing you were able to say increase limoline or whatever terpene with your treatment, you procedure isn't well written on how to "enhance and manipulate" 1ml of oil per liter?. how often.. .etc 

Write a procedure, show some lab results, make it so we can reproduce the results... I have to be skeptical, its very possible that some of your suggestions could cause damage or unwanted effects.


----------



## Josch Edgington (Jan 30, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> The burden of proof is on you. I literally need a lab printout showing you were able to say increase limoline or whatever terpene with your treatment, you procedure isn't well written on how to "enhance and manipulate" 1ml of oil per liter?. how often.. .etc
> 
> Write a procedure, show some lab results, make it so we can reproduce the results... I have to be skeptical, its very possible that some of your suggestions could cause damage or unwanted effects.


Ok bro what strain are you growing that you would like to increase the terps in and I will hook you up with what to do. No need to go into details with people who are just trying to get free info by mocking people. If you are truly interested I will do one strain for you. No need to put things out there for people just trying to take credit for the work.


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## Josch Edgington (Jan 30, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> . I have to be skeptical, its very possible that some of your suggestions could cause damage or unwanted effects.


I don't have a burden. I have already accomplished increasing limonene. Limonene comes in three different flavors. grapefruit, lemon and tangerine. This is very common knowledge. Since essential oils are just a collection of the terpenoids of the plant you are basically using the terps that are in cannabis already, no chemicals 100% pure essential oils. You could accomplish yhe same thing by planting plants around your grow that contain the terpenes but that would take a lot of extra space. With the oils you are just recreating the natural environment without actually having to plant those plants around your cannabis. but you have to address the smell and taste together. Just increasing limonene would leave you with a citric burn at the back of your throat, so you would have to address the sweet or savory aspect depending on strain to add to the flavor to counter the citrus burn to achieve optimum flavor.


----------



## GrowerGoneWild (Jan 30, 2016)

Josch Edgington said:


> Ok bro what strain are you growing that you would like to increase the terps in and I will hook you up with what to do. No need to go into details with people who are just trying to get free info by mocking people. If you are truly interested I will do one strain for you. No need to put things out there for people just trying to take credit for the work.


No, outline your procedure on how to manipulate terpene production. So somebody else could recreate it and verify results without bias.

Adulteration and manipulation are very different things.


----------



## personal lux (Jan 30, 2016)

Joedank said:


> best post i have seen from you yet
> now this will change a plant for the better . lots of papers about running inversions in horticulture/...


Ahhh, so much to learn everyday I think we all forget more than we remember!


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## Joedank (Jan 30, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> No, outline your procedure on how to manipulate terpene production. So somebody else could recreate it and verify results without bias.
> 
> Adulteration and manipulation are very different things.


i dont agree with the OP's arrogance but there are numerous studies about the manipulation of terpines in basil (occilum supp.) based on n-p-k ratios in the soil . also on root exudates and heavy metals , modulating terpine responce . a lack of nitogen seems to force a plant to exude pineline (sp?) 
will link some if you dont wanna google


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## CC Dobbs (Jan 30, 2016)

Josch Edgington said:


> I guarantee altitude has a lot to do with Thc one of the strongest strains on the planet come from Colorado.


Where do the other strong strains come from? Why did you get kicked off of ICMag?


----------



## Josch Edgington (Feb 2, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> No, outline your procedure on how to manipulate terpene production. So somebody else could recreate it and verify results without bias.
> 
> Adulteration and manipulation are very different things.


NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! I have had enough of you all. You just want to be wiki warriors and key board gangsters. I was going to give you guys my formulas and share the info but you all just want to hijack someones info and call it your own. I gave you all the info its in the posts. Do your own research and spend the next two years doing you own trial and error. To think I was almost dumb enough to be cool and share but I see now you all just want to be skeptical. If you are not received you dust the dirt off your feet and never look back. So have a nice day all. That is all I am willing to share on the info. You add all kinds of shit to your grow already and you are complaining about natural plant matter. Give me a break, what world do you live in death is my set. Guess my religion. lol


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## Josch Edgington (Feb 2, 2016)

Joedank said:


> i dont agree with the OP's arrogance but there are numerous studies about the manipulation of terpines in basil (occilum supp.) based on n-p-k ratios in the soil . also on root exudates and heavy metals , modulating terpine responce . a lack of nitogen seems to force a plant to exude pineline (sp?)
> will link some if you dont wanna google


I had no arrogance but I give what I get. Hope you have an amazing grow.


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## Josch Edgington (Feb 2, 2016)

[QUOTE="GrowerGoneWild, post: 12282413, member: 881564"
... I have to be skeptical, its very possible that some of your suggestions could cause damage or unwanted effects

If adding terpenoids that are already in cannabis are going to hurt you then sir I say don't smoke it. If you don't like my idea then don't use it. Like I said I am done I gave you all the tools and that's all I am willing to do.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Feb 2, 2016)

Josch Edgington said:


> NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! I have had enough of you all. You just want to be wiki warriors and key board gangsters. I was going to give you guys my formulas and share the info but you all just want to hijack someones info and call it your own. I gave you all the info its in the posts. Do your own research and spend the next two years doing you own trial and error. To think I was almost dumb enough to be cool and share but I see now you all just want to be skeptical. If you are not received you dust the dirt off your feet and never look back. So have a nice day all. That is all I am willing to share on the info. You add all kinds of shit to your grow already and you are complaining about natural plant matter. Give me a break, what world do you live in death is my set. Guess my religion. lol


Dont try to flip the scrip on me.. I'm on to your bullshit. you're the one posting enhancement and manipulation, when your method seems to be about adulteration. And now you're calling me a thief..



Josch Edgington said:


> To find a way to make it more economical I devised a spray with purified water and a few drops of essential oils commonly found in sativa strains in a spray bottle and misted the air.


Mixing oil and purified water.. So you tried dissolve a non polar material with a polar solvent. Ah.. nevermind.. And this spray lands on the plant and thats enhancement and manipulation.?.. No its not.

Goddamint.. wheres the negative rep for this motherfucker... do us all a favor and ban yourself. Do me a favor and click my icon and ignore me..


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## qwizoking (Feb 3, 2016)

im pretty amazed this thread is still going


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## Budley Doright (Feb 3, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Dont try to flip the scrip on me.. I'm on to your bullshit. you're the one posting enhancement and manipulation, when your method seems to be about adulteration. And now you're calling me a thief..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think he left .


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## ForeverGreen42 (Feb 4, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Proof please..
> 
> The only 30%+ strains Im aware of are not from colorado. They are chiquita bannana and GG4.. from RB26.


I thought GG4 originated from CO? No?


----------



## Krippled (Feb 4, 2016)

Does anybody know why a plant would lose smell at 6 weeks flower??


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## Joedank (Feb 4, 2016)

ForeverGreen42 said:


> I thought GG4 originated from CO? No?


michigan ...


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## GrowerGoneWild (Feb 4, 2016)

ForeverGreen42 said:


> I thought GG4 originated from CO? No?


I think youre right, Josey whales seems to be from colorado, GG4 won the LA cup in 2014

I stand corrected.


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## Joedank (Feb 4, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> I think youre right, Josey whales seems to be from colorado, GG4 won the LA cup in 2014
> 
> I stand corrected.


i am wrong i confused hammerhead with joesy 
man i thought joesy was from cali an hammerhead michigan?


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## GrowerGoneWild (Feb 4, 2016)

Joedank said:


> i am wrong i confused hammerhead with joesy
> man i thought joesy was from cali an hammerhead michigan?


Josey wales.. Hes on IC mag.. I guess I could ask him where he is from.


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## Red beard 420 (Feb 4, 2016)

ForeverGreen42 said:


> I thought GG4 originated from CO? No?


Chemy Jones is pretty consistently over 30% as well. Space Cream is another 30%er if I'm not mistaken. 
I have no dog in this fight I'm just naming strains I have seen over 30% THC. 
Also the argument that THC determines the "best or strongest" strain is inaccurate in my humble opinion. 
Just food for thought.


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## Astro Aquanaut (Feb 4, 2016)

Wouldn't it be better to investigate how Light, Environment, and Nutrients effect terpene production rather than pursuing inoculating your plants with essential oils? Also DNA sequencing the terpene profiles then learning how to active production?

If you equalize relative humidity of a bit over dried bud with some fresh blue berries you are going to get the smell and taste of the blue berries in the bud. This seems similar that you are artificially enhancing the terpenes...


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## Halfanimal (Feb 27, 2016)

So let me get this straight. Your saying that I should add essential oils that have the terpines in them to my soil so that my plant will produce those terpines? Unless the cannabis plant produces it with a different chemical profile, wouldn't your body process it the same as taking the oil a bit before you smoke? It all gets processed in the same place and your body isn't going to treat the chemicals any differently just because the source is different. I know I'm oversimplifying but I think that's the reason that people add it to their concentrates. It seems to me like a waste of time and energy to add it to the soil.


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## Halfanimal (Feb 27, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Mixing oil and purified water.. So you tried dissolve a non polar material with a polar solvent.


FINALLY!! After all the talk about science in this thread, it's nice to see actual science! Other than the talk of having a method that produces unbias, repeatable data. So props to GrowerGoneWild, thanks for trying to make these forums more than just people saying "I've done it, so it's science"


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## Tektek (Mar 5, 2016)

Roots absorb ions (and small amounts of some small molecules non-specifically) through protein channels. The largest channels are about the diameter of a small anionic dye ion. Most channels are specific for a particular nutrient ion or water. Outdoor soils contain essential oils, you can smell them when cultivating moist organic soils. I don't think roots absorb very much e/o.

E/o, resins and alkaloids are the most common medicinal compounds found in medicinal plants. Used in pharmaceutical preps for 1000s of years. Shortages of thymol in WW2 forced them to use less effective carvacol for wound dressing. Still used extensively today, many e/o's are now produced in chemical factories. New uses like Rosemary extract (rosemarinol) to preserve meat.

E/o's (mono, sequi and a few di-terpenes) and resins (mostly di-terpenes) are very important for cannabis medicinal effects. E/o is readily absorbed by the lungs, moves through most tissues easily, across the blood brain barrier a few minutes later. 

Add e/o to bud? I guess a small amount of e/o might cross the cuticle to enter into solution in the globular head.
Why bother adding e/o. Breeders should make varieties with high e/o content, not stealth varieties. Growers gotta learn their trade to make bud with high e/o.

Cannabinoids alone have medicinal value and you get a little high. Mixed with the right blend of e/o and resin, potential for much more medicinal value. And you can get very high.

I wonder about some LP's, almost no e/o, like they don't want people to get high.


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## TrimothyLeary (Mar 8, 2016)

I did a half-assed little research thing on plant defense responses to insect herbivory. Basically, plants can respond to say, spider mites, by producing and releasing reactive compounds, some of them terpenes. The cool part is that the exact mixture is different depending on the source of the damage. Spider mites attract predatory mites. Caterpillars attract parasitic wasps.

I posted it to my facebook linked on here. It's probably a bunch of BS, I was a 1 crop newb with all kinds of ideas, but it wouldn't be a useless adulterant. Possibly just useless. And it's really just elaborating on some of the stress responses we sometimes intentionally try to evoke. 

It would be fun to try the sacrificial limb idea though.


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## TomIke (Mar 18, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> A *hypothesis* (plural _hypotheses_) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it.


Then test it, before you know its wrong!


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## Resinhound (Mar 18, 2016)

TomIke said:


> Then test it, before you know its wrong!


Somethings you dont have to test to know its bullshit...like turning lead into gold.Its totally contrary to the rules of nature.Go read a basic botany text on root ion absorption,and you will understand why this cant happen.


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## TomIke (Mar 18, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> The burden of proof is on you. I literally need a lab printout showing you were able to say increase limoline or whatever terpene with your treatment, you procedure isn't well written on how to "enhance and manipulate" 1ml of oil per liter?. how often.. .etc
> 
> Write a procedure, show some lab results, make it so we can reproduce the results... I have to be skeptical, its very possible that some of your suggestions could cause damage or unwanted effects.


OP had a suggestion to try, you don't have to try. Why so much bashing?


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## TomIke (Mar 18, 2016)

Resinhound said:


> Somethings you dont have to test to know its bullshit...like turning lead into gold.Its totally contrary to the rules of nature.Go read a basic botany text on root ion absorption,and you will understand why this cant happen.


Once you attach the word "science" it must be true. Can you personally do this science, not just read the book?


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## TomIke (Mar 18, 2016)

Josch Edgington said:


> NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! I have had enough of you all. You just want to be wiki warriors and key board gangsters. I was going to give you guys my formulas and share the info but you all just want to hijack someones info and call it your own. I gave you all the info its in the posts. Do your own research and spend the next two years doing you own trial and error. To think I was almost dumb enough to be cool and share but I see now you all just want to be skeptical. If you are not received you dust the dirt off your feet and never look back. So have a nice day all. That is all I am willing to share on the info. You add all kinds of shit to your grow already and you are complaining about natural plant matter. Give me a break, what world do you live in death is my set. Guess my religion. lol


I've been a member here for several years. I mostly just read. Rarely, I throw in my 2 cents. Overall, there is much negativity here. Still, if one person is helped it is worth the effort. I'll stay around, mostly reading. We can get along, but it does take a considerable amount of self-control. Peace to you my brothers.


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## Resinhound (Mar 18, 2016)

TomIke said:


> Once you attach the word "science" it must be true. Can you personally do this science, not just read the book?


Go turn lead into gold...I dont care,you wont be successful and neither will he.The op stated at the beginning of this thread he was going to change cannabis cultivation as we know it.And reading a book is a good place to start.After you are done reading and digest the FACTS,you can try not to feel stupid..but that wont work either.Unsubscribing from this nonsense,just more bullshit stoner pseudo science.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Mar 18, 2016)

TomIke said:


> OP had a suggestion to try, you don't have to try. Why so much bashing?


Adulteration and manipulation isn't the same thing. He's not willing to post a procedure to replicate the terpene enhancement. 

Its bad science, period. If I think its wrong, I'll call bullshit on it.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Mar 18, 2016)

TomIke said:


> I've been a member here for several years. I mostly just read. Rarely, I throw in my 2 cents. Overall, there is much negativity here. Still, if one person is helped it is worth the effort. I'll stay around, mostly reading. We can get along, but it does take a considerable amount of self-control. Peace to you my brothers.


I would hope that people would correct me if I'm wrong in my concepts. I will take intellectual honesty over warm and fuzzy feelings. I can't improve or others if we cant call bullshit on each other.

Peace to you too..


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## TrimothyLeary (Mar 18, 2016)

You can't enhance terpenes with adulterants. That would simply be adding flavors, which may or may not alter the overall flavor or scent, but the terpenes would be unaffected. That's genetics and response to environment. If putting stuff in the ground made weed taste like the stuff you're putting in the ground, my weed would taste like bat shit and seaweed.(It doesn't. My last harvest tastes like Pina colada.)

Since you're not changing the terpene profile, just the flavor/scent (doubtful, but let's just assume so for the sake of argument,) there would be no change in effect on the user.

It was probably mentioned already, but, mangoes and lemon grass don't work. They're also junk science.(Their effect enhancing effect, I mean.)

But seriously OP, if you're interested in something better grounded in objective science, but still completely hypothetical, check out my little article on insect herbivory impacting terpene production. On my facebook.

Again, it's likely not a feasible way to enhance a terpene profile, but it's better than putting oil in your water.


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## jayjay777 (Mar 23, 2016)

My wife n inlaws argue for months at a time too. Where is the love...

O ya, Who got kicked from icmag n why lol?


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## qwizoking (Mar 23, 2016)

Dude i got kicked from a weed forum before coming here for posting studies proving a mod wrong.. what was him name like burnt toast or some shit


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## jayjay777 (Mar 23, 2016)

I was just curious, ive been looking into terpene development lately n see this thread, I began to read n seen the argument start, then I noticed it was like 4 months ago lol. So I clicked on page 8 n it looks like 8 pages of arguing... I couldnt care less...

So your theory is essential oils, specifucally eucalyptus will raise terpene production?


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## Dr. Who (Mar 24, 2016)

TrimothyLeary said:


> You can't enhance terpenes with adulterants. That would simply be adding flavors, which may or may not alter the overall flavor or scent, but the terpenes would be unaffected. That's genetics and response to environment. If putting stuff in the ground made weed taste like the stuff you're putting in the ground, my weed would taste like bat shit and seaweed.(It doesn't. My last harvest tastes like Pina colada.)
> 
> Since you're not changing the terpene profile, just the flavor/scent (doubtful, but let's just assume so for the sake of argument,) there would be no change in effect on the user.
> 
> ...



WRONG!

K sulfate WILL change the terp profile by enhancing all terp output!!! If you have a "fruity" smelling or tasting strain. K sulfate will make it more citrus smelling and tasting!
Mg sulfate will do the same but to a lessor extent and adds a bit to the "fruity" side. It's more "neutral" but does increase terp output!
Gen Hydro uses differing concentrations of each to get differing results (along with other ingr.)....

The point being is that you CAN increase terp/trich production. This has an effect on the smell and taste outcome by the simple increase of the terp profile. Like I said above, by increasing the overall or even nonspecific one end of the spectrum terps. You effect the smell and taste profile....

You CAN NOT add "flavorings" like essence's or oil's and get that to transfer to the plant! In fact, your hurting the plant with alcohols and oils.......Spraying oils on the plant is flat out GROSS! BLAH!


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## qwizoking (Mar 24, 2016)

Dont forget p

Pk
Boosters arent bs


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## GrowerGoneWild (Mar 24, 2016)

Dr. Who said:


> WRONG!
> 
> K sulfate WILL change the terp profile by enhancing all terp output!!! If you have a "fruity" smelling or tasting strain. K sulfate will make it more citrus smelling and tasting!
> Mg sulfate will do the same but to a lessor extent and adds a bit to the "fruity" side. It's more "neutral" but does increase terp output!
> ...


I think its possible to alter the profile by using the salts that have sulfur within but you're not going to create something radical or thats outside the possible genetic limitation of the plant. Light selection could be a factor too, I'm seeing LED results showing different expressions of terpene profiles from HPS or HPS/MH light. I know that DJ short prefers regular sunlight to bring out the qualities of the plant. The only manipulation I'm aware of is selective breeding. 

Its possible to adulterate flowers by taking advantage of xylem transport, a water soluble flavoring and by cutting the stem so that it sits directly in the scented solution. I'm sure we've all colored carnations as kids by using a dye in the water.. I think the concept is the same. A water soluble flavor should move towards the flowers.. But this is adulteration, not enhancement or manipulation.


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## flowersforfree (Mar 24, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> I've got the best Skunk #1 in CO because I let a skunk into my grow room and have him spray them down right before I chop


COULDA TOLD ME IVE BEEN LOOKING TO USE A SKUNK


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## flowersforfree (Mar 24, 2016)

ok good discussion
but I have one question or a thought idk you decide
I'm new to all the inside game but that being said
the big island is where I got wet outdoors
if a plant grew by mango it tasted like mango
if it grew by strawguavy it tasted like strawberry
in Michigan if it grows by corn (heaven forbid lol) it taste like corn
folks been flavoring weed for a long time
but I like the idea of, it can add or subtract medical properties 
and this brings up what I'm thinking
being this is my first in door grow
I was thinking of adding mango or pog juice to enhance flavor and maybe come up with some fruity skunk
am I just wasting my time?
and by juice I mean juicing whole fruit, no caned or bottled crap
it has to be good for the plant and whats good for the plant is good for you right?

EDIT
If I did this same processes time and time again with the same juicing process
over time with breeding the plant should gain some ?flavonoids? propertys of the juice it has been growing in. which coinside with tarps, right?
I'm just trying to get my mind around this, very interesting


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## greasemonkeymann (Mar 24, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> I would hope that people would correct me if I'm wrong in my concepts. I will take intellectual honesty over warm and fuzzy feelings. I can't improve or others if we cant call bullshit on each other.
> 
> Peace to you too..


This is one of the wisest posts I've ever seen on this forum.


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## shorelineOG (Mar 24, 2016)

flowersforfree said:


> ok good discussion
> but I have one question or a thought idk you decide
> I'm new to all the inside game but that being said
> the big island is where I got wet outdoors
> ...


Thats interesting you noticed that. A guy on here named the rev. said the same thing about transferring qualities to different plant species. I had a tomato next to a jalapeno plant and the tomatoes were spicy, was told they can't pollinate each other but something happened. I have grown out schwag that was straight lemon,pine,garlic and fuel. The fuel phenos came out of brick weed smuggled in gas tanks. Sounds crazy as shit, but true.


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## flowersforfree (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm getting off topic a little
hot peppers by the carrots will also give you spicy carrots
there is something to this all we need is time and more grows


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## Dr. Who (Mar 25, 2016)

flowersforfree said:


> ok good discussion
> but I have one question or a thought idk you decide
> I'm new to all the inside game but that being said
> the big island is where I got wet outdoors
> ...





shorelineOG said:


> Thats interesting you noticed that. A guy on here named the rev. said the same thing about transferring qualities to different plant species. I had a tomato next to a jalapeno plant and the tomatoes were spicy, was told they can't pollinate each other but something happened. I have grown out schwag that was straight lemon,pine,garlic and fuel. The fuel phenos came out of brick weed smuggled in gas tanks. Sounds crazy as shit, but true.


 As a farmer you've gotten me intrigued....I am going to play with this in our home garden......Getting something like that to work on the field scale is not feasible but. I like the spicey tomato thing.


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## greasemonkeymann (Mar 25, 2016)

Dr. Who said:


> As a farmer you've gotten me intrigued....I am going to play with this in our home garden......Getting something like that to work on the field scale is not feasible but. I like the spicey tomato thing.


man... spicy tomatoes...slice up some avocados, a lil lime juice, un plata de carne asada... ocho cervesas..
y latina..

I'm trying to think of the garden I used to have.. I grew mostly berries though..


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## Dr. Who (Mar 25, 2016)

greasemonkeymann said:


> man... spicy tomatoes...slice up some avocados, a lil lime juice, un plata de carne asada... ocho cervesas..
> y latina..
> View attachment 3641116
> I'm trying to think of the garden I used to have.. I grew mostly berries though..


I think I know what I'm having tonight now!. The whole famdamnly is out doing something and it's a "Daddy eats out kinda night"!


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## GrowerGoneWild (Mar 25, 2016)

Dr. Who said:


> As a farmer you've gotten me intrigued....I am going to play with this in our home garden......Getting something like that to work on the field scale is not feasible but. I like the spicey tomato thing.


Ive never observed the so called flavor transfer.. at our house down south we have _Capsicum annuum_ next to the Sevil Oranges_. _Never had spicy oranges or citrus tasting chiltepin.


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## Dr. Who (Mar 25, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Ive never observed the so called flavor transfer.. at our house down south we have _Capsicum annuum_ next to the Sevil Oranges_. _Never had spicy oranges or citrus tasting chiltepin.


I still have to "try". I mean, "spicey" tomato's - Mmmmmmm! I'll put some betwixed my big potted Ghost - Reaper and Scorpions and some between the in-ground Thai finger hots... won't hurt to see! Got some 12 year old Tobasco plants,,,,,those are hotter then the sauce Mc makes - big time!


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## greasemonkeymann (Mar 25, 2016)

Dr. Who said:


> I think I know what I'm having tonight now!. The whole famdamnly is out doing something and it's a "Daddy eats out kinda night"!


Just keep "la latina" on the downlow man...


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## shorelineOG (Mar 25, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Ive never observed the so called flavor transfer.. at our house down south we have _Capsicum annuum_ next to the Sevil Oranges_. _Never had spicy oranges or citrus tasting chiltepin.


These were all in the nightshade family, peppers and tomatoes. I was skeptical until I read some other people's posts. I have also had land race strains with hollow, segmented stalks that was like bamboo.


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## shorelineOG (Mar 25, 2016)

Sulfur and uv light increases flavor. It is odd that islands have tropical tasting herb, northern cali has grape strains and Oregon has blueberry. Afghan weed is grown near poppies and gives a narcotic high, equatorial strains grown near coffee have a stimulant effect. Maybe just a coincidence.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Mar 25, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> These were all in the nightshade family, peppers and tomatoes. I was skeptical until I read some other people's posts. I have also had land race strains with hollow, segmented stalks that was like bamboo.


Interesting, I'll ask the horticulture department at the university.. I have some raised veggie beds I'm designing, since they have to be within the same bed for the cold frame.. I have doubts, the same family, just too much differences.. the same genus is more likely.. 

I have my doubts.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Mar 25, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> Sulfur and uv light increases flavor. It is odd that islands have tropical tasting herb, northern cali has grape strains and Oregon has blueberry. Afghan weed is grown near poppies and gives a narcotic high, equatorial strains grown near coffee have a stimulant effect. Maybe just a coincidence.


I've never had a single poppy near the indica strains I've grown, 

I dunno man.. I think you're just messing with us..


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## shorelineOG (Mar 25, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> Interesting, I'll ask the horticulture department at the university.. I have some raised veggie beds I'm designing, since they have to be within the same bed for the cold frame.. I have doubts, the same family, just too much differences.. the same genus is more likely..
> 
> I have my doubts.


I also have unanswered questions. Native people and old farmers sometimes know things that can't be explained. This sounds laughable and then gets dismissed but I have seen it happen to the nightshades, first hand.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Mar 25, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> I also have unanswered questions. Native people and old farmers sometimes know things that can't be explained. This sounds laughable and then gets dismissed but I have seen it happen to the nightshades, first hand.


It is laughable when you cant explain the process behind it.


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## shorelineOG (Mar 25, 2016)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> It is laughable when you cant explain the process behind it.


It would be laughable to dismiss things we don't understand. I never presented this as fact and the other guy with spicy carrots got me thinking. Plants are fast evolving and Marijuana had the potential for having more terpenes than any other plant. It has the same terpenes found in other plants, that we know. What we don't know is how all these terpenes appear.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Mar 25, 2016)

shorelineOG said:


> It would be laughable to dismiss things we don't understand.


Why support a concept that is questionable, or something you dont understand yourself? You're willing to accept things without proof of concept. 

"Native people and old farmers sometimes know things that can't be explained" 

Come on now..

[QUOTE="shorelineOG, post: 12449358, member: 920117"}What we don't know is how all these terpenes appear.[/QUOTE] 

Sure we do, its called genetics, _Cannabis spp_. has evolved an interesting set of terpenes to attract, or defend from biotic or abiotic factors. Even a pine tree has developed terpenes as a form of defence from insect attack or an attractant. Some of the Thai genetics have different aromas from say Afgani. 

There's been lots of selective breeding for various sets of Cannabis cultivars.. DJ shorts blueberry?.


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## Joedank (Mar 25, 2016)

Dr. Who said:


> WRONG!
> 
> K sulfate WILL change the terp profile by enhancing all terp output!!! If you have a "fruity" smelling or tasting strain. K sulfate will make it more citrus smelling and tasting!
> Mg sulfate will do the same but to a lessor extent and adds a bit to the "fruity" side. It's more "neutral" but does increase terp output!
> ...


this has been proven with basil . as listed eriler


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## superbak3d (Apr 7, 2016)

Pretty sure a plant's terpene profile is hard coded into it's DNA. You can't change it.

The best you can do is try to the most terpenoid production as possible


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## flowersforfree (Apr 8, 2016)

superbak3d said:


> Pretty sure a plant's terpene profile is hard coded into it's DNA. You can't change it.
> 
> The best you can do is try to the most terpenoid production as possible


Right.
But over time with strict regiment could for say evolve the: flavor, medical value, really anything height-flower time. Isn't that why folks breed, to make things better?
I think as our stock evolves so will the terpenoid production and quality.
Can we add (koala bear oil and think bed bugs are gona stay off us because we smoke, NO. that takes time with adding oils and messing around with different combos until one of us gets it.) lol
Over time it will be vary interesting to see what folks come up with though.
But hey what do I know, older I get the more I know- I know shit, could just be having a flash back!


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## superbak3d (Apr 8, 2016)

flowersforfree said:


> Right.
> But over time with strict regiment could for say evolve the: flavor, medical value, really anything height-flower time. Isn't that why folks breed, to make things better?
> I think as our stock evolves so will the terpenoid production and quality.
> Can we add (koala bear oil and think bed bugs are gona stay off us because we smoke, NO. that takes time with adding oils and messing around with different combos until one of us gets it.) lol
> ...


With decades of cross breading and evolution of the plant, it's not uncommon for these plants to carry multiple terpene profiles.

White Widow for example carries humulene and caryophyllene terpenes.

So even if we increase terperoind production, there's no guarantee we boost the right profile.

K seems to have the biggest impact on terpenoid production


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## Joedank (Apr 8, 2016)

superbak3d said:


> With decades of cross breading and evolution of the plant, it's not uncommon for these plants to carry multiple terpene profiles.
> 
> White Widow for example carries humulene and caryophyllene terpenes.
> 
> ...


you are close but science has yet to prove your "k" theroy 

here is a patent for light modulation a snippit of it shows light can affect gene expression and overall plant expression : 

"Specific wavelengths of light provide discrete information to the plant leading to particular responses. For instance, blue light (400-500 nm) controls phototropic growth, leaf expansion, stem growth inhibition and accumulation of anthocyanin pigments. Red light (-660 nm) controls many responses including germination, functions of the chloroplast, stem and petiole growth. Far-red light (>700 nm) is an important signal in a shaded environment, and has a central role in modulating red light responses. All of these light wavelengths have effects on flowering and gene expression."

now if light has that much to do with expression . could pest pressure be the key to modulaion of terpens . like the expression of the SAR response on oil producion in plant *HINT*


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## superbak3d (Apr 8, 2016)

Joedank said:


> you are close but science has yet to prove your "k" theroy
> 
> here is a patent for light modulation a snippit of it shows light can affect gene expression and overall plant expression :
> 
> ...


Well we do know K promotes resin production which is where majority of terpenoids reside.

For now, it seems like a good source of potash combined with UV lighting is the most direct and effective route to maximizing terpenoid production.

That and reducing the use of synthentic nutes. Synthentics have a negative impact on terpenes


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## Joedank (Apr 8, 2016)

superbak3d said:


> Well we do know K promotes resin production which is where majority of terpenoids reside.
> 
> For now, it seems like a good source of potash combined with UV lighting is the most direct and effective route to maximizing terpenoid production.
> 
> That and reducing the use of synthentic nutes. Synthentics have a negative impact on terpenes


 i agree on the top points BUT to add conjecture to the fire . a buddy that make extractions for a living tells me organicly grown buds have less terrrps...? weird ... might be the growers he works with though...
loving your input ... 
do you use sulpomag?? or crab/shrimp meal??


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## superbak3d (Apr 8, 2016)

Terpenoids don't survive extraction which is why they always taste the same and have no aroma.

I use this last week of flower.

http://www.amazon.com/Potassium-Sulfate-Potash-Organic-Pounds/dp/B00L225EXI/ref=pd_sim_86_22?ie=UTF8&dpID=512sxYMu58L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=0PFZ769BPGB89XVF9HCZ


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## oswizzle (Apr 8, 2016)

Methyl Jazz works... but your yield suffers in a HUGE way

It all comes down to Genetics.. you cant make a Hobbit into Shaq and vice versa


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## Joedank (Apr 8, 2016)

oswizzle said:


> Methyl Jazz works... but your yield suffers in a HUGE way
> 
> It all comes down to Genetics.. you cant make a Hobbit into Shaq and vice versa


yea i hear if you only use it at the end an spray the stalks of the plant you can recive some big rewards...lol



superbak3d said:


> Terpenoids don't survive extraction which is why they always taste the same and have no aroma.
> 
> I use this last week of flower.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Potassium-Sulfate-Potash-Organic-Pounds/dp/B00L225EXI/ref=pd_sim_86_22?ie=UTF8&dpID=512sxYMu58L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=0PFZ769BPGB89XVF9HCZ


sulpomag yup ... me too ...
good point about terps ... thats why i love my rosin


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## qwizoking (Apr 11, 2016)

Thats not a good point at all...
Thc is a terp, many terps have a bp over that of thc and terpenoids specifically are heavier, some with a melting point over thcs boiling point

Some terps are quite light. Especially on fresh harvests/uncured bud

Like half thc bp

To make a pristine extract we simply do some chem class reminiscing. And get something with 50-60%thc some other "cannabinoids" and general high terp content.

The terps like to hit receptors.. but much of the flavor is also caused by more inert compounds
Say my green crack thats an ester bomb smelling of apples, banana and like isoamyl acetate


Sorry.. i almost said something before. But with his extracts tasting the same comment i figured nobody would listen. My oil reeks, from a straight lemon drop of my slh to orange creamsicle, sour chemy berry etc. 
Delicious


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## PerfectGrower (Apr 12, 2016)

The chitosan oligosaccharide in our micro product does wonders for terpene production


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## Joedank (Apr 12, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> Thats not a good point at all...
> Thc is a terp, many terps have a bp over that of thc and terpenoids specifically are heavier, some with a melting point over thcs boiling point
> 
> Some terps are quite light. Especially on fresh harvests/uncured bud
> ...


idk about thc being a terpine in itself ... seems to me alot of terp profiles to fall out in vaccume . hence the cold traps and reclaims being used on vac ovens to find these "lighter?" terrps ...lol ... terp dip!!! here comes my steam distiller 
wanna come check it out quizo?


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## Joedank (Apr 12, 2016)

PerfectGrower said:


> The chitosan oligosaccharide in our micro product does wonders for terpene production


not to be a dick but you do know this messes with aroma of many terrp profiles(sour d being the one i notive it on the most ) and flowering time / sencenece?
timing is key in my applications . a great read on ic mag about it ...


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## PerfectGrower (Apr 12, 2016)

Our testing has proved otherwise....our grower's run sour d very regularly. Application rates of chitosan are important as well.


Here you can see sour d at week 6 using our product line. When we harvest, I can send you the full spectrum lab results and compare!


I know this picture doesn't back up the terpene argument...but it shows we are no dummies when it comes to the sour d. We have tested it extensively 



Joedank, do you know what nutrient profile you are feeding your sour d in flowering? Nutrition is important....


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## testiclees (Apr 12, 2016)

PerfectGrower said:


> The chitosan oligosaccharide in our micro product does wonders for terpene production


"There is no micro product in the world that even comes close!"

That claim which is made about the perfect grower micro product sounds so bombastic and phony that ill be doubtful of any other claims made by perfect grower.


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## PerfectGrower (Apr 12, 2016)

testiclees said:


> "There is no micro product in the world that even comes close!"
> 
> That claim which is made about the perfect grower micro product sounds so bombastic and phony that ill be doubtful of any other claims made by perfect grower.



This thread is going south...sorry I will digress from it. 

Testiclees...have a look at what's in our micro product and I think you'll agree?


Im not here to argue or get on the wrong foot here guys! I'm on your side....!!


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## testiclees (Apr 12, 2016)

PerfectGrower said:


> The chitosan oligosaccharide in our micro product does wonders for terpene production





PerfectGrower said:


> This thread is going south...sorry I will digress from it.
> 
> Testiclees...have a look at what's in our micro product and I think you'll agree?
> 
> ...


I appreciate the prompt response.

The red flag though still flies high over any product that claims : "There is no micro product in the world that even comes close".
If this had any connection to reality and Power put in the legit science to make this claim i would expect to see tables showing analysis of at least the top ten micro products. Instead i see this:
_*"Micro contains Iron EDDHA, low weight chitosan oligosaccharide and pharmaceutical grade reagents.


Our scientifically proven micronutrient ratios promote increased plant growth, root health and resin production. There is no micro product in the world that even comes close!"*_

Is there a place on your site to review studies? To be honest I'm doubtful that Perfect is even aware of the top micro products. Horticulture is a very broad area of study and micro products have been produced and refined since at least the 90's. There are loads of well researched and field tested products that have been around for a long while. Yet no product in the world comes close? LOL you'll need more than words to give even a measure of cred to that claim.


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## PerfectGrower (Apr 12, 2016)

Our products are, in fact, the first to actually allow the scientific process to happen.


Show me another company that tells you the exact amount of each element you feed your plants. It doesn't exist. We do it for each week.


Sure there is some marketing in this, its a business that sells a product. Is it a lie? No way.


We want everyone to be a better grower. We give you the tools to find the answers. What works and what doesn't? This is the only way a grower gets better. Now you have the tools to determine the correct answers. 


I will keep my butt in the growing section. It's better I help people...I'm surely not here for a pee-pee contest 


Good day


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## testiclees (Apr 12, 2016)

[QUOTE="PerfectGrower, post: 12503114, member: 929476"]Our products are, in fact, the first to actually allow the scientific process to happen.
[/QUOTE]
*Please don't insult us with laughable and preposterous bull shit.*

* 
Youve got a few folks looking for a response on your IC chitosan posts. On that thread there actually is at least one PhD biochemist. So maybe you can explain to him how you've enabled the scientific process for the first time.*


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## Joedank (Apr 12, 2016)

PerfectGrower said:


> Our testing has proved otherwise....our grower's run sour d very regularly. Application rates of chitosan are important as well.
> 
> 
> Here you can see sour d at week 6 using our product line. When we harvest, I can send you the full spectrum lab results and compare!
> ...


i enjoy your posts . but soil applications of chitosan are in the infantcy of this soil science ATM..


i allow the plant to choose and grow in huge soil beds years old .... YARDS of soil n compost ....this is my sour d View attachment 3655586about 40 days in and 37 to goView attachment 3655585
i use logan labs an jermy from build a soil as my soil consultant .


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## PerfectGrower (Apr 12, 2016)

Joedank,

You're ahead of the game, I like that. Chitosan comes in many different forms. Some are better than others in terms of efficacy. Some forms also have more scientific literature to back them up.

In our experience, we've done a lot of research over the years and we're happy with the choices we've made in our formulations. As always, to each their own 


Grow big!


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## Krippled (May 19, 2016)

Why has there been a distinct change in smell right at week 5 of flower????? I thought it was my bad first round with the mother plant but now the clones from her are doing the Exact same thing... In veg the fans smell of a light coffee, early flower it's all fruity then week 5 hits and it reeks of Mothball-Fuel smell.. Any input would be great..


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## since1991 (May 19, 2016)

Perfect grower nutes are the shit. I used them a couple runs ago. Follow to feed chart. It works. They are cheaper than the store bottles for sure.


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## since1991 (May 19, 2016)

But i agee that one nute manufacturer nute line being superior to another is mostly marketing. Nutes should serve one purpose and that is keep the plant thriving and healthy. Most cannbis marketed brands do this if you know what your doing and how to use them. I usually brush off peoples claims of this nute brand did this to mu plants or did that....or made it smell/taste like this or that. That shit is either placebo or almpst always something or some other factor in the grow room besides nutrient brands. Nutes dont make or break a grow. They should just "work". Nothing more or less. Almost all brands do. If they dont....its something YOU dId or didnt do. So that being case...and i know how to use them all....i look for the least expensive ones short 0f mixing my own salts and profiles.


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## tstick (May 19, 2016)

Krippled said:


> Why has there been a distinct change in smell right at week 5 of flower????? I thought it was my bad first round with the mother plant but now the clones from her are doing the Exact same thing... In veg the fans smell of a light coffee, early flower it's all fruity then week 5 hits and it reeks of Mothball-Fuel smell.. Any input would be great..View attachment 3685683 View attachment 3685684


That seems to be the natural evolution of the terpenes in many, many, many strains....Coffee, fruity and then "funky"...

But it's not true of every strain. I've had some smell like dirty socks and boiled cauliflower and broccoli....and then turn into spicy, hash-y flavors upon ripening.


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## SPLFreak808 (May 19, 2016)

Krippled said:


> Why has there been a distinct change in smell right at week 5 of flower????? I thought it was my bad first round with the mother plant but now the clones from her are doing the Exact same thing... In veg the fans smell of a light coffee, early flower it's all fruity then week 5 hits and it reeks of Mothball-Fuel smell.. Any input would be great..View attachment 3685683 View attachment 3685684


I have a crap yielding but dense grape kush cut that does the same damn thing. From berries to coffee and dirt smell after it matures lol, if it makes you feel any better it taste like flowers,fruits and dirt after cure.


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## since1991 (May 19, 2016)

Yeah. Some strains change up big time while they cure. Actually the majority of mine do. What you smell in peak flower is not the same as a good weeks or even months long cure. I wish ot would but it hardly ever happens. Terpenes are volatile and degrade or change with time and handling very easily.


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## Krippled (May 19, 2016)

Thank you all for the input. After cure it has a Apple pie moonshine smell....unsure of strain.


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## Trichometry101 (Jul 8, 2017)

Bump to say:

Op fuck you and your fake terps. Youre going to kill somone spraying essential oils on weed, or soaking it into the roots. Go run some on your nuts and tell me how it feels. Thats how my lungs feel after vaping your fake weed.

Its not the same people! You can't soak your shitty waterbud in fruit rind extract and tell me its more natural like it's suppossed to be. No, its bitter as fuck. Terps are smells, not flavors. You are doing Cannabis a horrible disservice. Some essential oils can't even be used for open air aromatherapy, they are POISONOUS TO THE LUNGS, and here we have dipshits on the international web spreading the shit globally to other idiots, fucking dripping the shit in your res, soaking it into the plant fiber. All because youre a hydro growing moron who doesn't want to get his hands dirty growing real plants with medicinal and nutritional value. Thats how you get plants to smell and taste like what theyre suppossed to. 

Your hydro is WACK. All hydro is wack, all greedy growers weighing their airy oilless bud down and looking for gimmicks to add smell. Youve ruined your already shit weed, and given your customers healthy issues, you piece of shit. I bet you also think feeding Brix+ is magically feeding your non existent micros, rather than soaking right up into the bud. I know how you fake weed growers are. Dousing bud in simple sugars for weight and frost. And plant extracts to fool rookie retard placebo smokers, the only people who buy your shit.

If you want your weed to smell like a real plant, like it's suppossed to, stop growing it with an iv bag and vitamins! God damn its that simple. Pick up a book. Teaming With Microbes is a good start.. You admit your weed sucks but blaming it on not using essential oils? Im fucking through, I'll never bite my tongue to water/air bud growers again. 

Your weed is BULL SHIT before and after you contaminate it with unsmokable oils and sugars, like every single one of you seem to do. Fuck that fake shit. Your weed-shaped lettuce soaked in Pineapple Express terp blend, lol what a JOKE!


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## since1991 (Jul 9, 2017)

Lighten up...Francis


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## chemphlegm (Jul 9, 2017)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> No, you have it wrong, you are adulterating it with your "oils".
> 
> I'll have to look into it but you cannot transport those compounds through the roots.
> 
> ...


respectfully have to disagree, with a simple example. 
feed mj with 1/10th strength as directed and the plant will finish, but lack nose and effects. Add some composted items, or feed full and they will finish great. 

I am able to compost items(year) and grow in them, like lemons, pine needles, etc, and seriously influence these profiles, if they already existed. 
notice apples on an old tree are always better? maybe because the apples are composting beneath it like nature intends? or a garden plot of chemdog over a course of ten years will grow much stronger smelling plants than the ones previously if those plants are composted beneath it? I have....I'm on to something too. try it for a blast.

you cannot pour something in the dirt to change the flavor. but you can use a water soluble flavoring or color to immediately influence a hydroponically fed plants' color and flavor,(remember food coloring in a carnation uptaking?) so......believe me people are all over this with their otherwise shitty produce. we know though, and thats why we grow our own


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## chemphlegm (Jul 9, 2017)

Josch Edgington said:


> the werc shop adds essential oils to their concentrates after making them to match the plants natural profile. This does it during the flower stage so if you cold process your oil using live resin extraction and purge under 85 degrees you lose no terps. Thus there would be no reason to add the oils afterwards.


companies are infusing terpenes back into their oils. some for medical benefits some for the flavors etc. 
dlimonene breaks the blood brain barrier immediately delivering compounds to the brain affecting a cannabis oil user with quicker onset for instance. dlimonene cannot influence the flavor of a plant when mixed in water or dirt though. composted whole lemons are a success though I've done this, still do. it wont make a plant smell like lemons but will strongly influence one with the existing profile. old grape plants make tastier grapes right? maybe from all the linalool composted beneath it?


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## GrowerGoneWild (Jul 9, 2017)

chemphlegm said:


> respectfully have to disagree, with a simple example.
> feed mj with 1/10th strength as directed and the plant will finish, but lack nose and effects. Add some composted items, or feed full and they will finish great.
> 
> I am able to compost items(year) and grow in them, like lemons, pine needles, etc, and seriously influence these profiles, if they already existed.
> ...


I already explained that polar compounds could be transfered via pholem or xylem to other parts of the plant if the stem is cut as observed in artificial coloring in carnations. I dont see why you cant transfer flavor compounds this way. But its artificial and misleading for the consumer.

There is a lack of evidence showing terpene transfer to flowers via root uptake. Or have I seen any abstracts showing such transfer. I'll say that plants react differently in soil via the symbiotic relationship of exudates and microlife, leading to different aroma qualities in soil vs synthetic systems in doing my own side by sides. If there is such evidence I'll gladly change my viewpoint. 

Fruit quality from mature apple trees in my opinion is related to tree pruning and a well cared for mature tree has properly exposed fruit, and doesn't have much to do with terpene production.


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## keeron (Aug 4, 2017)

There is even a blog posted on this, i cant post the link though..


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## keeron (Aug 4, 2017)

GrowerGoneWild said:


> There is a lack of evidence showing terpene transfer to flowers via root uptake. Or have I seen any abstracts showing such transfer. I'll say that plants react differently in soil via the symbiotic relationship of exudates and microlife, leading to different aroma qualities in soil vs synthetic systems in doing my own side by sides. If there is such evidence I'll gladly change my viewpoint.


I actually have a theory, just like the OP.
OP actually might have got his big theory from a blog which was posted on 2015-08-28 ,
A few months before he started this thread, Which clearly states, putting essential oils into the feed, water or foliar.

Someone give me 2 likes so i can post the link.


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## ANC (Aug 4, 2017)

Sorry, but using compost made from the plant you are feeding, is asking for diseases.


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## QtrNdaPuss (Aug 4, 2017)

ANC said:


> Sorry, but using compost made from the plant you are feeding, is asking for diseases.


I've been reusing my soil for over 6 years now. I don't think that's true. but everything I've grown has been propagated in house. Maybe that is more of an issue if you use clones from outside sources. All i do is break up the rootballs add some dry fertilizer and water and let it sit in a barrel for a month or so. I've only had fungal attacks (bud rot) on like 3 plants in all that time and it was during a cycle that had horribly high humidity like 75% during lights out for the last 3 weeks.


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## keeron (Aug 5, 2017)

I actually have a theory, just like the OP.
OP actually might have got his big theory from a blog which was posted on 2015-08-28 ,
A few months before he started this thread, Which clearly states, putting essential oils into the feed, water or foliar.

*Here is the link LOL* *:
https://amsterdammarijuanaseeds.com/blog/post/create-flavored-marijuana-easily*

It clearly says what the OP said, a few months before this thread was created.


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## chemphlegm (Aug 5, 2017)

ANC said:


> Sorry, but using compost made from the plant you are feeding, is asking for diseases.



what? you know ALL plants and their fallen parts including fruits and fermenting seeds etc, are a very important part of cultivation.
all of our organic soil is made up of composted materials ideally, if those are mj leaves or oak bark I see no difference once their composted, related to deseases. cite examples please I am interested.


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## chemphlegm (Aug 5, 2017)

Josch Edgington said:


> You will not find any info on this unless it was written by me first. t.


um...try again

https://amsterdammarijuanaseeds.com/blog/post/create-flavored-marijuana-easily
is one such info source, and I've seen articles and blogs already 5 years old posting very interesting ideas about this.
sorry, day late my friend


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## Father Ramirez (Aug 24, 2017)

ANC said:


> Sorry, but using compost made from the plant you are feeding, is asking for diseases.


Your use of the word 'sorry' is loaded with attitude that loudly conveys to readers, 'sorry, I'm right and you're wrong', which is dickish at best, and contrary to the natural process of vegetative growth, death, and decomposition. You.have personal anecdotal evidence to suggest your claim, but it is more likely you introduced those diseases inadvertently yourself, as it does not concur with common experience.


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## ANC (Aug 24, 2017)

Ok, Freud, go back to sleep.
Don't read shit that isn't there into stuff. That is how psychosis starts off.

We speak like the English over here, and it is not uncommon to start with an apologetic sorry.

When you don't properly compost diseased/infested plant material and then go and apply it to the same species, things can happen.


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## Jimmy Verde (Aug 24, 2017)

chemphlegm said:


> what? you know ALL plants and their fallen parts including fruits and fermenting seeds etc, are a very important part of cultivation.
> all of our organic soil is made up of composted materials ideally, if those are mj leaves or oak bark I see no difference once their composted, related to deseases. cite examples please I am interested.


Listen to this guy lol he knows his shit


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## dabbindylan (Aug 26, 2017)

Higher altitude effects terp content! Acids n ph n microbes will directly effect total content. Light n temperature are also critcal... Some terp voltile as low as 72f°. Vaccum sealing while curing or freezing will preserve all thc n terp content. Anything else is wack..


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## dankness19 (Sep 19, 2017)

Will using Alpha-Pinene terpene with notes as a supplement work?


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## mr. childs (Sep 19, 2017)

dankness19 said:


> Will using Alpha-Pinene terpene with notes as a supplement work?


might, i currently use lavender epsom salt, i thought of adding caryophyllene to a foliar spray...


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## ToneOZ (Dec 24, 2019)

All you need is to find said terpene and find its precursor in a form it can uptake and sucesdfully convertdd back within the plant.


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## ToneOZ (Dec 24, 2019)

Also helps to know somed chemistry, botany, a functional groups. Maybe instead of the carbonyl its time for the hydroxl group to get some headlin ne.


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