# On "What makes you believe that God is real?"



## Padawanbater2 (Jun 24, 2015)

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3avixv/serious_what_makes_you_believe_that_god_is_real/

These answers are what we'd expect.. Very shallow and not very well thought out.. Something meant for the moment, not our entire existence.. 

"Because *I believe* God showed himself to me!"

"Because my dad was an adamant atheist and he asked God for help, and he helped!"

"Because the world just doesn't make sense!"

"Because my mom had leukemia and asked for God's help, he saved her, and then the cancer returned, but she knew about it this time and felt it, *he didn't choose to save her again*, and she knew it, so that's why God exists!"

"I asked God to make my mom quit drinking, she quit drinking, so God exists!"

...

Anybody noticing a trend?


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## insidagain (Jun 24, 2015)

I ask of you to give proof that he doesn't.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 25, 2015)

insidagain said:


> I ask of you to give proof that he doesn't.


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## insidagain (Jun 25, 2015)

Nice vid Paddy. But my faith is not shaken. I will not preach to anyone for their lack there-of. The question that weighs on my mind is why some seem to have a fascination in debunking the belief in the first place. I understand we have extreme religious zealots who are no different in their push. As far as an answer to your original question, I don't have the answer but can only aver that my family and I live a more peaceful, loving and forgiving existence because of our faith. I am not better nor worse than anyone else, however I do believe I'm a better person to myself friends, family amd loved ones. Clearly I am not as educated as you in the ways of the world. I have read many of your threads and agree with you on many points you have written but rarely will I reply especially in the political forum because I don't care much for some of the company there. Honestly I don't know how some are able to stay verticle with all the top heavy weight of hate.


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## thepenofareadywriter (Jun 25, 2015)

when life sucker punches you...you grab onto to what ever there is that's in reach... more often then not its religion...one time myself and a friend were in the ocean the current took us far enough out, that people on shore looked like ants...I freaked out,and almost drowned...I saw my friend as the only thing to grab onto push him down to keep me up... you think of nothing but saving your own life...that's why life guards throw devices to you and life has also sucker punched me I grabbed on to the god thing also... that's what was in my reach so I grabbed... and I grabbed hard and tight...but I learned many things since then...there is no diety looking to be worshiped or obeyed...I most likely would have grabbed a human friend if there was one around at the time


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## qwizoking (Jun 25, 2015)

Ive found "apologetic" writings on genesis 1 rather interesting. Combining todays science and astronomy to come up with a surprisingly accurate representation of the earths formation and what that wouldve looked like from the perspective of someone on earth as described in genesis.
Does that make me believe god is real? Certainly not in and of itself. But i am a christian, there are many things that combined give me a very strong faith


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## undercovergrow (Jun 25, 2015)

thepenofareadywriter said:


> when life sucker punches you...you grab onto to what ever there is that's in reach... more often then not its religion...one time myself and a friend were in the ocean the current took us far enough out, that people on shore looked like ants...I freaked out,and almost drowned...I saw my friend as the only thing to grab onto push him down to keep me up... you think of nothing but saving your own life...that's why life guards throw devices to you and life has also sucker punched me I grabbed on to the god thing also... that's what was in my reach so I grabbed... and I grabbed hard and tight...but I learned many things since then...there is no diety looking to be worshiped or obeyed...I most likely would have grabbed a human friend if there was one around at the time


using your example:
suppose before your ocean excursion, someone had told you to put on a life vest because it could save your life if the current pulls you too far out. you think it foolish to wear it as it will impede your experience of the ocean so you refuse it. as you are already aware, in that moment of near-drowning, you were willing to grab on to anything to save your life--even at the expense of your friend's life--and probably wished you had a life jacket. that is what Jesus Christ is: He is your life vest. now is the time to put Him on. James 4:14 ...for what is your life? it is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away.

_________

there is a Creator. creation itself declares it. Psalm 19:1. Romans 1:20 says that His invisible attributes are clearly seen since the creation of the world so that no one is without excuse. Psalm 14:1 says a fool has said in his heart there is no God.
the Bible says there is no greater love than for a man to lay down his life for another. John 15:3 we know this is definitely true--we hear last Father's Day of a man who lost his life trying to save his son who was drowning, along with the son's older friend who also tried to save the young boy; all three died. that father showed the ultimate expression of love in trying to save his son and the other young boy.
just as that father was willing to do for his child, our Creator was willing to die for His creation. as hard as it is to believe there is a God, it takes more faith to believe there isn't a God. the original curse in the Garden explains the evils of this world. it explains the slow death we are all experiencing. Hebrews 9:27 states that it is appointed unto man to die, and after that judgment.
that's why 1 Peter 5:8 says our adversary (Satan in Hebrew) prowls around like a roaring lion looking for whom he may devour. that's why Ephesians 6:16-17 speaks of putting on the whole armor of God. because we have an enemy who is seeking to destroy us. there is a supernatural world, whether we want to believe it or not.

...so what makes me believe in God? Creation. The Bible/Prophecy. DNA. Mathematics. Love.

_________

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. if you're reading this thread, you should consider He is knocking...answer it.

How To Go To Heaven

What Is Biblical Repentance?


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## DaSprout (Jun 29, 2015)

I believe in God. Or a God. Which may unlike be the type that others believe in. I consider myself to be a scientist (junior level). Which actually bolsters my belief in an existence of a God. 

Just using basic understanding of what we currently consider to be the physical substance of our know universe, and what we understand to be the creation, or beginning of it. I would have to say that from our standpoint. There is a God.

Does that mean that there is some great overseer deciding who goes where and does whatever? Yes. And no. 

If you asked me what I envisioned God to be. I would honestly say. For our comprehensions sake. Something that is a cross between a fungus and a snake. If I had to envision such an entity. Why? Due to my scope of comprehension. Where would I? As a single human fit into all this? Maybe the actual size of an electron in a singular cell. At most. Our planet being the nucleus. Our galaxy being a cluster. 

To me. God is everything. How do our actions affect or assist God? The energy's that are transmitted and/or changed by what we do to the environment around us. They always have a deeper meaning. The ones who don't notice are the ones that do not want to accept it or see it occurring.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 29, 2015)

Their shallow reasoning doesnt reach much further than their shallow belief. Their minds are on a short leash so any far reaches in reasoning result in a scared, closed minded retreat, or, very rarely, a new, more reasonable concept of reality. 

Im convinced that theres much more to this reality and that our consciousness continues after we die, but besides that I only have ideas as to how that side of reality functions. The issue with that though is the credibility of my subjective experiences that I use to explain my belief in the supernatural. The default position of agnostic atheism is definitely the only logical position to take regarding this stuff, but it doesnt hurt to make your beliefs a little colorful.


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## DaSprout (Jun 29, 2015)

The popular "norms" are what causes us to to label ourselves as being this or that. We cannot just "be". For some reason, others must be comfortable with who we are and what we believe. All this prior to being comfortable with ourseves. 

Modern society. Just as archaic as the past. Just less endearing.


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## CenkTripper (Jun 30, 2015)

God is just a word, Rab in Hebrew, Allah in Arabic, Tengri in Turkish, Tanri in Turkish (Turkey)... It defines what can not be understood or explained by current perception. We believe in what we know, and our knowledge is so limited that we need a God to fill in the gap... Many simple questions remain unanswered, like;

* What is matter?
* What is life, human?
* Why humans exist?
* What is gravity?
* Are there any other civilizations in our universe?
* Are there other dimensions, like the one our souls live (energy dimension)

Once we answer all the questions, God will be our ecosystem, and we will be Gods... :-)


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## Funkyjamz0f (Jul 1, 2015)

I think God is real jesus is real it's just not quite how it's said. I don't think we could understand the nature of the real truth.


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## Bluehillsmoker (Jul 8, 2015)

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 21, 2015)

The only way to understand the true God is to have a personal relationship with Him through His Word. Daily you must be willing to listen to what He wants to tell you - which is found in His Word. The evidence is experienced by testing all the prophecies that have been fulfilled precisely according to His Word, and watching as the ones that are being revealed today come true. Are you starting to get an idea yet? You have to study His Word EVERY DAY


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## bearkat42 (Jul 21, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3avixv/serious_what_makes_you_believe_that_god_is_real/
> 
> These answers are what we'd expect.. Very shallow and not very well thought out.. Something meant for the moment, not our entire existence..
> 
> ...


Yep, and these are the exact responses that you'll receive in here. Bottom line is, people believe their "God" because they were told to. My mother was one of them. She was a great person, but she smoked all of her adult life, and it was clearly killing her. When I would try and and speak to her about it, her programmed response was always "I'm praying on it.". Which clearly didn't work, as she is no longer with us. And, of course, the "Christian" response to that is "She's in a better place", which seems like COMPLETE NONSENSE to me. God is a crutch that people use to conveniently explain away what they choose not to believe. "It's a miracle!" is the convenient resonse, when the "miracle" is usually easily explained. My question was always "Why is their God  any better than their God? . They both do what they do in the name of their God. So who's right?


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## bearkat42 (Jul 21, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> The only way to understand the true God is to have a personal relationship with Him through His Word. Daily you must be willing to listen to what He wants to tell you - which is found in His Word. The evidence is experienced by testing all the prophecies that have been fulfilled precisely according to His Word, and watching as the ones that are being revealed today come true. Are you starting to get an idea yet? You have to study His Word EVERY DAY


The Klan study's studies "His Word" EVERY DAY. So do Muslim extremists.


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## DaSprout (Jul 21, 2015)

Here's a platitude for you. "Its all about belief. And I believe my God is right.".


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

You all facking ediots believing in fairytales written by the people who put order to the world and then abuse it.
If you read a little history you would know before politicians came on power the church used to rule the lands.
All kind of religions are nonsense even tho some of them are created to make us be a better human beings.

P.S. What I say is not *believe,* it is a proven facts!
Which many of you may not accept because you already have been brainwashed by the system you live in. Or because you are seeking hope and there is nowhere else to find it!

Written by a Scientific Realist.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

insidagain said:


> I ask of you to give proof that he doesn't.


The fact that you are all *believers *is first proof that he doesn't exist*. *It means that you are not sure of his existence because there is no solid evidence, therefore you are only believer.
There is a lot of moral in the bible, but its a fairytale just like harry potter.

The bible is not written by god. Its written by the religion.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 21, 2015)

bearkat42 said:


> The Klan study's studies "His Word" EVERY DAY. So do Muslim extremists.


You are talking about different gods. which there are many. The muslim's god is a different god, much like the catholic god, the baptist god, the klan's god, etc... 

The true god doesn't say your mom is in a better place, she's in the ground like every other dead person (except jesus). 

no one convinced me or passed on to me anything about god or his word, i was open-minded enough to find out what all this bible hype was all about. then i was intelligent enough to study both sides of the subjects in detail (such as which day is the sabbath, is there a rapture [NO!], or what is man's purpose). The thing i found is that counterfeit religions, traditions, and interpretations are more accepted as "christian" than what his word actually says. You could write a book just on the misconceptions of what jesus taught while he was on earth in the flesh, and that was only during a 3 year period. I don't mind you talking about all the lambs being herded into the meat grinder, following their "ordained" minister of fairy tales; however, don't lump the ones who don't follow the counterfeit version of god, jesus, the holy spirit, and religion with all those idiots who do.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 21, 2015)

SweetHayz said:


> The fact that you are all *believers *is first proof that he doesn't exist*. *It means that you are not sure of his existence because there is no solid evidence, therefore you are only believer.
> There is a lot of moral in the bible, but its a fairytale just like harry potter.
> 
> The bible is not written by god. Its written by the religion.



explain the accuracies of prophecies within god's word to me then... how could any man know any of the things that were going to happen before they did. Not only that, but they have to be right 100% of the time for any of it to be true, or it is all false (unlike nostrodamus and other "prophets" who predicted some things kind of accurately).


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

I am illusionist. I do close up magic-*tricks*. I fool people and get payed for it. Its all sleight of hand but for the people witnessing it is a real-magic. As people say only god is capable of making miracles. By looking at their faces and reactions it seems I'm their new god. But when they ask me how I do it, I simply say it "*magic*".


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> explain the accuracies of prophecies within god's word to me then... how could any man know any of the things that were going to happen before they did. Not only that, but they have to be right 100% of the time for any of it to be true, or it is all false (unlike nostrodamus and other "prophets" who predicted some things kind of accurately).


 My prophecy says that tomorrow you are gonna wake up at some point. Then eat at some other point.
Now its a stupid example. But if it happens you wake up tomorrow morning and then eat. My prophecies would be pretty accurate don't you think so? I am god in that case?


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

If god exists then your dog would be believing in it too.
But no, in reality you are the dog's god because that dog's life depends on you.

Now put yourself in a position that you have an aquarium, with a colony of some kind of insects or animals. They are living things, but they would continue living if you give them the environment to survive.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

For you, the religion is your god. For me, I believe in action, reaction, stimulation and most important myself because I exist and I fight trough every-day's problems for my existence.

If I didn't wanted to exist id jump of a cliff and then ask god to save me.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 21, 2015)

The only way to find out is if you take the time to know


SweetHayz said:


> If god exists then your dog would be believing in it too.
> But no, in reality you are the dog's god because that dog's life depends on you.


Very good, i am like a god to my dog. However a dog only has instincts, us humans have much more than that. Where does all of that come from and why are we so different from animals? Why do we have a conscience?
You would need to study how complex and complete the prophecies that have been fulfilled are before you would understand it's not something any man would be capable of, let alone many different men used to piece together the larger prophecies....


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 21, 2015)

where did knowledge come from?


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> The only way to find out is if you take the time to know
> 
> 
> Very good, i am like a god to my dog. However a dog only has instincts, us humans have much more than that. Where does all of that come from and why are we so different from animals? Why do we have a conscience?
> You would need to study how complex and complete the prophecies that have been fulfilled are before you would understand it's not something any man would be capable of, let alone many different men used to piece together the larger prophecies....


Dog don't have only instincts. You would be stupid to believe animals have only instincts. They have their own thoughts, they have the intellect to communicate to each other. They understand. They can learn. They can dream. Just like human beings. We are no different than animals. Is you that believe you are something more than any other living thing on this plant.

As I said and I am serious about it, I am full time illusionist. I can predict the card that a person is gonna take, before they even take it, because the cards are under my control. Now, if I had written it on a piece of paper, once they pull the card I've written, the prophecy will be complete, but instead I used it in a combination to achieve even more powerful illusions.

As a little kid I was influenced by my mother to be believer. I've been visiting church and studying the bible together with my mum. I really enjoyed it as a book and the stories in it, with the morals. As I grew older and and had the intellect to analyze the information that I observed.
I realized god was nothing more than santa claus.
Here we get back to science. A little kid does what it sees, being most influenced by their parents. A baby eats whatever his mum feeds it, even if she had to feed it poison.
The first few years on human life is the development of their mind before they get to stage to take own decisions. This is the years you teach a kid to have perspectives for what is good and what is bad. If you teach a kid to kill, you would make a cold blooded killer because for this kid perspectives this will be normal. Therefore if you teach it religion, law obeying, loving that is what it's gonna be.

As well being religious doesn't make you a good person.
Neither being an atheist makes you a bad person.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

Human knowledge came from *evolution. *Past generations have been more isolated and limited to knowledge, with other words more stupid than what we are now. Every living thing evolves with each next generation. Its a way to survive.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

I believe you should learn more about the royal families that are choosing the world order since before religion even existed.

You should ask yourself about the media and how it controls our minds.

You should ask yourself how come there is American armies in the Arab Empires?
Not because the fake 9/11. To fool the society that that Arabs are the bad guys.
The world leaders don't care if they are gonna spare a bunch of innocent citizens,
when in future this act will help their nation to progress.

If you dig a little information you would understand that this war happened because of the agreement with the Arabs to supply only America and they have denied. Did you know that the oil there is actually owned by the Germans?

Why don't you ask yourself what is happening in Africa? Do they have no gods to be let humiliated like this by the people having gods so called Christians? Or they might be the demons?

Do you know every third world country is in the hands of so called first world country?

Germans (including all British and Dutch governments and France) created the European union. To take control of each government.
With the idea of opening the borders to give freedom to people.
When in reality there is no import taxes. Me as a person from a third world European country. Do you know our products are bought cheaper in Germany than our own country?
Every undeveloped country of the European union is a slave to the leaders.

Russians are still in control of their minions.

Not to mention America still in control of their Latin neighbors, Africa, China, Arabs and probably much more.

Not to forget American leaders are controlled by the same royal families that in control of the European union.

Not to mention that they have friendly relation with Russians and would not mess in their business, because who would want to have on going war with the Russians.

These are just their latest strategies.
Lets roll back in time. Before our generation even existed.
To remind you about WW1 and WW2 are also taking big part in this very same world order.
Or back in the middle ages the Templar crusades killing people to put Christianity in power,
before even British occupied America.
Knowing today Americans are not even the native Americans.






Everything is about *politicians*. The royal families. The same people that created your religion.
Or so called Illuminati. The invisible hand that controls the world.
They are your system. They are your *god*.
*Wake up!*


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## Grandpapy (Jul 21, 2015)

There is a big difference between Religion and Spirituality.
I don't who said it but :

"Religion is for people that don't want to go to hell.
Spirituality is for those that have been there."

If you had proof, you would not need faith.

I find it funny how many non believers call out his name all day long, or tell someone to go to hell..


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## Sativied (Jul 21, 2015)

Grandpapy said:


> If you had proof, you would not need faith.


You mixed those two up... Those who have faith don't need proof.



Padawanbater2 said:


> Anybody noticing a trend?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

Sativied said:


> You mixed those two up... Those who have faith don't need proof.


I strongly believe it was on purpose.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 21, 2015)

Sativied said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc


Belief in a god usually entails employing multiple logical fallacies


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## DaSprout (Jul 21, 2015)

Wow. It took a while. But this thread really started to get going.


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## Grandpapy (Jul 21, 2015)

Sativied said:


> You mixed those two up... Those who have faith don't need proof.
> 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc


I have had a form of faith all my life but didn't really believe until my early 40's. (It's a cool story, I'll have to tell you sometime.)

Assuming all men are born of free will, I chose to believe in a God that wants nothing more of me then to be happy. 
As a result a conciseness formed. I found I wasn't happy if I was selfish and mean.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 21, 2015)

Grandpapy said:


> I have had a form of faith all my life but didn't really believe until my early 40's. (It's a cool story, I'll have to tell you sometime.)
> 
> Assuming all men are born of free will, I chose to believe in a God that wants nothing more of me then to be happy.
> As a result a conciseness formed. I found I wasn't happy if I was selfish and mean.


If you are not being selfish you will be abused. Give to take and take to give.
Assistance with help in emergency cases is understandable.
But I've been a very good helping person the past years and I have been abused, I've been robbed, I've been lied.
So every other good person I know.
The society is what made me be that way. People lie, people steal, people make dramas.
I've cut down my contact to a very few good friends.


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## Grandpapy (Jul 21, 2015)

All people are the same. 
We are each assholes, sometime to someone, somehow. 
We are also good in ways as well.


Caution is important for me in maintaining my happiness. On the road and at home.


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## justugh (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Belief in a god usually entails employing multiple logical fallacies


ok then let me play with some of that thinking and tell me if correct or wrong and please back up ( u seem logical and a fun debate partner )

we start off the idea of string theory (which has partly prove true) that everything that we see now everything is vibrating at a set rate.....now given the first lines in the bible (the old testament the one thing all 3 religions agree on ) god spoke and what is speaking just vibration starting everything ...big bang ....now also with the forming of the universe before all other things showed up stars had to be formed and burn up making new compounds then they below out and new stars were formed from that ....this has to happen several times for Our types of stars to be born ........any logical person knows we are all star dust everything u see once was in a star at sometime to form the atoms we know today that form us

so far science and religions text link up if u look at from that view point .......the only major issue with what it said is the time frame ........now looking at life on the plant u see different life spans fly that lives 20 hours cats dogs mice snakes to ppl ........so holding this mind why not look at the bible in the same way 1 day could of been 1 trillion years to us ....now the author of it the first parts starts off as someone telling the story of what happen then the rest starts to fallow events in daily life .....so logically again that has to be 2 authors if not several to do the history ....this is also reflected in the lang used ....yes it has been copied by hand for the last 5000 to exacting copies but meaning of words drift over time ......as u can see if u look up the original torah they have several meanings for certain characters 

ok that was just for shits and giggles get u thinking

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_ontological_proof

that should take care of a logical mind set proving it is real .......if not then
Albert Einstein “Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.”

and again logical person knows the human soul is just the electrical energy that is bouncing around in our brains.........now since albert is the man here he knew that on death of the body the energy his soul was not destroyed but changed into another form of energy now what type and where does it transfer too do not know ........even good old albert believed in a god


sorry tired if grammer is worst then normal


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

justugh said:


> we start off the idea of string theory (which has partly prove true) that everything that we see now everything is vibrating at a set rate.....now given the first lines in the bible (the old testament the one thing all 3 religions agree on ) god spoke and what is speaking just vibration starting everything ...big bang ....now also with the forming of the universe before all other things showed up stars had to be formed and burn up making new compounds then they below out and new stars were formed from that ....this has to happen several times for Our types of stars to be born ........any logical person knows we are all star dust everything u see once was in a star at sometime to form the atoms we know today that form us
> 
> so far science and religions text link up if u look at from that view point .......the only major issue with what it said is the time frame ........now looking at life on the plant u see different life spans fly that lives 20 hours cats dogs mice snakes to ppl ........so holding this mind why not look at the bible in the same way 1 day could of been 1 trillion years to us ....now the author of it the first parts starts off as someone telling the story of what happen then the rest starts to fallow events in daily life .....so logically again that has to be 2 authors if not several to do the history ....this is also reflected in the lang used ....yes it has been copied by hand for the last 5000 to exacting copies but meaning of words drift over time ......as u can see if u look up the original torah they have several meanings for certain characters
> 
> ...


"String theory says all matter vibrates, when God spoke, it was vibrations, therefore God exists"

There's no logical connection from A (string theory) to B (God exists)

Timeframe discrepancy 

No evidence to suggest a day is anything other than a day

"Matter/energy can't be created or destroyed"

I'm not claiming I know how the universe began, religion is. For all I know matter/energy might be infinite


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## justugh (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "String theory says all matter vibrates, when God spoke, it was vibrations, therefore God exists"
> 
> There's no logical connection from A (string theory) to B (God exists)
> 
> ...


u just want to tell other ppl they are wrong thought u were going to be fun good night


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

justugh said:


> u just want to tell other ppl they are wrong thought u were going to be fun good night


No, I want people to understand their beliefs have consequences

The belief in organized religion kills people to make those that believe feel good about their life and inevitable death. At the very least you should demand proof. Faith is worthless. 

It's a very selfish ideology imo


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## justugh (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> No, I want people to understand their beliefs have consequences
> 
> The belief in organized religion kills people to make those that believe feel good about their life and inevitable death. At the very least you should demand proof. Faith is worthless.
> 
> It's a very selfish ideology imo


that is when it is twisted by another's view ...........yes alot of that is going on the whole roman church and like 2 sects of the muslims

but look at the jewish over all .........if anything they have gotten the short end of the stick and took it for years (world's whipping boy) but there general faith and beliefs have no harmful effects only when someone tries to take their life / land do they react by willing to kill them....but that reaction could be called instinct fight or flight response..........and looking at jewish reilgon vs jewish empires

the idea of god and heaven/hell is the first form of control over man .........the idea of your actions effect what happens after a person dies ...the idea that one set of select ppl have the power to allow u to enter/ talk to god

the idea of god and general morals and ways to interact with others is a good idea in general it does alot of good things ........the part u seem to be angry and want ppl to admit about is ppl in genral are scum and use god to justify horrible and injust action done to other humans by anouther set of humans


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> No, I want people to understand their beliefs have consequences
> 
> The belief in organized religion kills people to make those that believe feel good about their life and inevitable death. At the very least you should demand proof. Faith is worthless.
> 
> It's a very selfish ideology imo



Where do you find organized religion on this earth? Even within the different churches of the same religion (ie. catholicism which claims to be christian yet looks more like roman mythology) there are differences in doctrine. How can you call that organized religion? Satan is the author of confusion and the "organized religion" of this day has more confusion than it has answers; you need to know God's Word more to know that the religions of this day are using the bible in a way that isn't true. They pick out bits and pieces they like to teach and ignore the meaning of the whole thing. They use emotion to drive people to do what they want (not what god wants), the same as the media, politicians, commercials, etc.

Just like in the time of Jesus - They love to have Jesus around until they hear the message He brought from God. He was cool when he was healing, feeding, etc., but they rejected his message and in turn killed him because of that message. Which they did with the majority of the apostles. SO the message of God's Word has been suppressed by what you call organized religion, in order to deceive humanity of what God's purpose for man really is.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

justugh said:


> that is when it is twisted by another's view





SamsonsRiddle said:


> SO the message of God's Word has been suppressed by what you call organized religion, in order to deceive humanity of what God's purpose for man really is.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

"Christianity isn't what most believers think it is.."

Well, *I know* what it is, I've read the Bible, and it doesn't seem like either of you have..

"NOTE: These lists are meant to identify possible problems in the Bible, especially problems which are inherent in a literalist or fundamentalist interpretation. Some of the selections may be resolvable on certain interpretations--after all, almost any problem can be eliminated with suitable rationalizations--but it is the reader's obligation to test this possibility and to decide whether it really makes appropriate sense to do this. To help readers in this task, these lists are aimed at presenting examples where problems may exist given certain allowable (but not always obligatory) assumptions. It should be kept in mind that a perfect and omnipotent God could, should, and likely would see to it that such problems did not exist in a book which s/he had inspired. It should also be kept in mind that what is and is not an atrocity is to some extent a matter of opinion. You are entitled to disagree with the author that these are, in fact, atrocities.

Note: In the Bible, words having to do with killing significantly outnumber words having to do with love.

GE 3:1-7, 22-24 God allows Adam and Eve to be deceived by the Serpent (the craftiest of all of God's wild creatures). They eat of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," thereby incurring death for themselves and all of mankind for ever after. God prevents them from regaining eternal life, by placing a guard around the "Tree of Eternal Life." (Note: God could have done the same for the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" in the first place and would thereby have prevented the Fall of man, the necessity for Salvation, the Crucifixion of Jesus, etc.)

GE 4:2-8 God's arbitrary preference of Abel's offering to that of Cain's provokes Cain to commit the first biblically recorded murder and kill his brother Abel.

GE 34:13-29 The Israelites kill Hamor, his son, and all the men of their village, taking as plunder their wealth, cattle, wives and children.

GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history.

GE 19:26 God personally sees to it that Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt (for having looked behind her while fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).

GE 38:9 "... whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked ..., so the Lord put him to death."

EX 2:12 Moses murders an Egyptian.

EX 7:1, 14, 9:14-16, 10:1-2, 11:7 The purpose of the devastation that God brings to the Egyptians is as follows: 
to show that he is Lord; 
to show that there is none like him in all the earth; 
to show his great power; 
to cause his name to be declared throughout the earth; 
to give the Israelites something to talk about with their children; 
to show that he makes a distinction between Israel and Egypt.

EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.

EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.

EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.

EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.

EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.

LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."

LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.

LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39)

NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.

NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.

NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command."


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

"NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the Canaanites.

NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.

NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ...."

NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."

NU 25:8 "He went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly."

NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.

NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.)

NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.

DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and show "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.

DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.

DT 28:53 "You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you."

JS 1:1-9, 18 Joshua receives the Lord's blessing for all the bloody endeavors to follow.

JS 6:21-27 With the Lord's approval, Joshua destroys the city of Jericho--men, women, and children--with the edge of the sword.

JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua defeated the whole land ...; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

JS 11:8-15 "And the lord gave them into the hand of Israel, ...utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed ...."

JS 11:20 "For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the Lord commanded Moses."

JS 11:21-23 Joshua utterly destroys the Anakim.

JG 1:4 With the Lord's support, Judah defeats 10,000 Canaanites at Bezek.

JG 1:6 With the Lord's approval, Judah pursues Adoni-bezek, catches him, and cuts off his thumbs and big toes.

JG 1:8 With the Lord's approval, Judah smites Jerusalem.

JG 1:17 With the Lord's approval, Judah and Simeon utterly destroy the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath.

JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

JG 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

JG 9:5 Abimalech murders his brothers.

JG 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

JG 9:53-54 "A woman dropped a stone on his head and cracked his skull. Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, 'Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say a woman killed me.' So his servant ran him through, and he died."

JG 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

JG 14:19 The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a man and causes him to slay thirty men.

JG 15:15 Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass.

JG 16:21 The Philistines gouge out Samson's eyes.

JG 16:27-30 Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women.

JG 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

JG 20:43-48 The Israelites smite 25,000+ "men of valor" from amongst the Benjamites, "men and beasts and all that they found," and set their towns on fire.

JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

1SA 4:10 The Philistines slay 30,000 Israelite foot soldiers.

1SA 5:6-9 The Lord afflicts the Philistines with tumors in their "secret parts," presumably for having stolen the Ark.

1SA 6:19 God kills seventy men (or so) for looking into the Ark (at him?). (Note: The early Israelites apparently thought the Ark to be God's abode.)

1SA 7:7-11 Samuel and his men smite the Philistines.

1SA 11:11 With the Lord's blessing, Saul and his men cut down the Ammonites.

1SA 14:31 Jonathan and his men strike down the Philistines.

1SA 14:48 Saul smites the Amalekites.

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

1SA 15:33 "Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord ...."

1SA 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: "Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands."

1SA 27:8-11 "David left neither man nor woman alive ....". (Note: This implies that children and infants were included in the slaughter.)

1SA 30:17 David smites the Amalekites.

2SA 2:23 Abner kills Asahel.

2SA 3:30 Joab and Abishai kill Abner.

2SA 4:7-8 Rechan and Baanah kill Ish-bosheth, behead him, and take his head to David."


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

"2SA 4:12 David has Rechan and Baanah killed, their hands and feet cut off, and their bodies hanged by the pool at Hebron.

2SA 5:25 "And David did as the Lord commanded him, and smote the Philistines ...."

2SA 6:2-23 Because she rebuked him for having exposed himself, Michal (David's wife) was barren throughout her life.

2SA 8:1-18 (A listing of some of David's murderous conquests.)

2SA 8:4 David hamstrung all but a few of the horses.

2SA 8:5 David slew 22,000 Syrians.

2SA 8:6, 14 "The Lord gave victory to David wherever he went."

2SA 8:13 David slew 18,000 Edomites in the valley of salt and made the rest slaves.

2SA 10:18 David slew 47,000+ Syrians.

2SA 11:14-27 David has Uriah killed so that he can marry Uriah's wife, Bathsheba.

2SA 12:1, 19 The Lord strikes David's child dead for the sin that David has committed.

2SA 13:1-15 Amnon loves his sister Tamar, rapes her, then hates her.

2SA 13:28-29 Absalom has Amnon murdered.

2SA 18:6 -7 20,000 men are slaughtered at the battle in the forest of Ephraim.

2SA 18:15 Joab's men murder Absalom.

2SA 20:10-12 Joab's men murder Amasa and leave him "... wallowing in his own blood in the highway. And anyone who came by, seeing him, stopped."

2SA 24:15 The Lord sends a pestilence on Israel that kills 70,000 men.

1KI 2:24-25 Solomon has Adonijah murdered.

1KI 2:29-34 Solomon has Joab murdered.

1KI 2:46 Solomon has Shime-i murdered.

1KI 13:15-24 A man is killed by a lion for eating bread and drinking water in a place where the Lord had previously told him not to. This is in spite of the fact that the man had subsequently been lied to by a prophet who told the man that an angel of the Lord said that it would be alright to eat and drink there.

1KI 20:29-30 The Israelites smite 100,000 Syrian soldiers in one day. A wall falls on 27,000 remaining Syrians.

2KI 1:10-12 Fire from heaven comes down and consumes fifty men.

2KI 2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

2KI 5:27 Elisha curses Gehazi and his descendants forever with leprosy.

2KI 6:18-19 The Lord answers Elisha's prayer and strikes the Syrians with blindness. Elisha tricks the blind Syrians and leads them to Samaria.

2KI 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

2KI 9:24 Jehu tricks and murders Joram.

2KI 9:27 Jehu has Ahaziah killed.

2KI 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Her body is trampled by horses. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain.

2KI 10:7 Jehu has Ahab's seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

2KI 10:14 Jehu has forty-two of Ahab's kin killed.

2KI 10:17 "And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord ...."

2KI 10:19-27 Jehu uses trickery to massacre the Baal worshippers.

2KI 11:1 Athaliah destroys all the royal family.

2KI 14:5, 7 Amaziah kills his servants and then 10,000 Edomites.

2KI 15:3-5 Even though he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, the Lord smites Azariah with leprosy for not having removed the "high places."

2KI 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

1CH 20:3 (KJV) "And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes."

2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slaughtered.

2CH 21:4 Jehoram slays all his brothers.

PS 137:9 Happy will be the man who dashes your little ones against the stones.

PS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle.

IS 13:15 "Everyone who is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished."

IS 13:18 "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children."

IS 14:21-22 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."

IS 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite's to eat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

JE 16:4 "They shall die grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth."

LA 4:9-10 "Those slain by the sword are better off than those who die of famine; racked with hunger, they waste away for lack of food. ... pitiful women have cooked their own children, who became their food ..."

EZ 6:12-13 The Lord says: "... they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak ...."

EZ 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."

EZ 20:26 In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves through, amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

EZ 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

EZ 23:25, 47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores.

EZ 23:34 "You shall ... pluck out your hair, and tear your breasts."

HO 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

MI 3:2-3 "... who pluck off their skin ..., and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron."

MT 3:12, 8:12, 10:21, 13:30, 42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, LK 13:28, JN 5:24 Some will spend eternity burning in Hell. There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

MT 10:21 "... the brother shall deliver up his brother to death, and the father his child, ... children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

MT 10:35-36 "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man's enemies will be the members of his own family."

MT 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

AC 13:11 Paul purposefully blinds a man (though not permanently)."


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## justugh (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "2SA 4:12 David has Rechan and Baanah killed, their hands and feet cut off, and their bodies hanged by the pool at Hebron.
> 
> 2SA 5:25 "And David did as the Lord commanded him, and smote the Philistines ...."
> 
> ...



AGAIN JEWISH RELIGION AND JEWISH EMPIRE 2 different things

the bible is a mix of ideas and stories from history to impart morals .......most of the bible is crap just a bunch of things that were agreed on by a group of men in 300ad
since they will not let anyone read everything we will never the know the full truth .....so for someone to find the truth they must look at everything compare see what repeats and there is god
i can use anything in the bible to support one line of thinking and i can use any other part to counter it .....this is the work of man

and the one thing u never commented on was the man that used math to prove god is out there ...........prue number logic that has not been disproved
https://www.google.com/search?q=mathematical formula that proves god exists&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

justugh said:


> i can use any other part to counter it


Which is why the Bible, and indeed, any religious text, is bullshit



justugh said:


> and the one thing u never commented on was the man that used math to prove god is out there ...........prue number logic that has not been disproved
> https://www.google.com/search?q=mathematical formula that proves god exists&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


From your link..

"But unsurprisingly, there is a rather significant caveat to that claim. In fact, what the researchers in question say they have actually proven is a theorem put forward by renowned Austrian mathematician Kurt Gödel -- and *the real news isn't about a Supreme Being*, but rather what can now be achieved in scientific fields using superior technology."


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## SweetHayz (Jul 22, 2015)

You all go kill yourselves in the name of Allah. You might get 15 virgins in your next live to get your facking hormones right and stop thinking about facking fairy tales.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

SweetHayz said:


> You all go kill yourselves in the name of Allah. You might get 15 virgins in your next live to get your facking hormones right and stop thinking about facking fairy tales.


The exact same can be said for Christianity (and indeed, every organized religion..)


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## justugh (Jul 22, 2015)

SweetHayz said:


> You all go kill yourselves in the name of Allah. You might get 15 virgins in your next live to get your facking hormones right and stop thinking about facking fairy tales.


virgins are overrated

lady that knows how to work the cock is better .....need tight fuck her in the ass or throat

before u bitch at me about that statement .....i know some kinky ass ladies 



Padawanbater2 said:


> Which is why the Bible, and indeed, any religious text, is bullshit
> 
> 
> From your link..
> ...


but it proves god .........so u call it bullshit all bullshit is wrong if u did not have this hate u would see that


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## undercovergrow (Jul 22, 2015)

justugh said:


> ok then let me play with some of that thinking and tell me if correct or wrong and please back up ( u seem logical and a fun debate partner )
> 
> we start off the idea of string theory (which has partly prove true) that everything that we see now everything is vibrating at a set rate.....now given the first lines in the bible (the old testament the one thing all 3 religions agree on ) god spoke and what is speaking just vibration starting everything ...big bang ....now also with the forming of the universe before all other things showed up stars had to be formed and burn up making new compounds then they below out and new stars were formed from that ....this has to happen several times for Our types of stars to be born ........any logical person knows we are all star dust everything u see once was in a star at sometime to form the atoms we know today that form us
> 
> ...


interesting you would post this...i was just doing a Bible study the other day that incorporated how God is STILL in the process of speaking--that's what is holding everything together. the string theory is amazing when you start looking into it.


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## undercovergrow (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "String theory says all matter vibrates, when God spoke, it was vibrations, therefore God exists"
> 
> There's no logical connection from A (string theory) to B (God exists)
> 
> ...



but we do know that time itself has a point of beginning. the Creator would have to be infinite - that is the I AM God of the Bible. the origin of the universe is that moment of the "Big Bang" where God said "Let there be light" and there was light.


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## undercovergrow (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> The exact same can be said for Christianity (and indeed, every organized religion..)


that's not true. a Christian could continue to study the Bible and as they grow in their faith, they would not respond the same way as someone who is reading the Quran. the Quran is man trying to bridge the gap between God and man with man, while the Bible is God bridging the gap between God and man - the two are most definitely not the same. in fact, that is the difference between (true) Christianity and every other religion.


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## undercovergrow (Jul 22, 2015)

@Padawanbater2 may i ask if you believe in the concept of sin--good and evil?


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

justugh said:


> but it proves god .........so u call it bullshit all bullshit is wrong if u did not have this hate u would see that


If _anything _*proved* a god exists, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Belief in god, all god's, requires faith


undercovergrow said:


> but we do know that time itself has a point of beginning. the Creator would have to be infinite - that is the I AM God of the Bible. the origin of the universe is that moment of the "Big Bang" where God said "Let there be light" and there was light.


Where's the evidence?


undercovergrow said:


> the Quran is man trying to bridge the gap between God and man with man, while the Bible is God bridging the gap between God and man - the two are most definitely not the same. in fact, that is the difference between (true) Christianity and every other religion.


Man wrote the Quran, man wrote the Bible.. the two have much more in common than you might think.. 


undercovergrow said:


> @Padawanbater2 may i ask if you believe in the concept of sin--good and evil?


No, I don't believe in the concept of sin or good and evil


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## SweetHayz (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Man wrote the Quran, man wrote the Bible.. the two have much more in common than you might think..


Give that man a cookie!


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## undercovergrow (Jul 22, 2015)

The evidence, as stated earlier, is creation. Creation declares it. It is sufficient evidence whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not. 

Thanks for answering @Padawanbater2 so you're just into the whole "do what thou wilt" religion?

Mohammed professes that he was revealed the Quran by a jinn--whatever it was, it initially scared him. However, the Bible was written by many different authors on different subjects inspired by the Holy Spirit yet in agreement throughout along with many prophecies that have been fulfilled. The two books are different.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

undercovergrow said:


> The evidence, as stated earlier, is creation. Creation declares it. It is sufficient evidence whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not.
> 
> Thanks for answering @Padawanbater2 so you're just into the whole "do what thou wilt" religion?
> 
> Mohammed professes that he was revealed the Quran by a jinn--whatever it was, it initially scared him. However, the Bible was written by many different authors on different subjects inspired by the Holy Spirit yet in agreement throughout along with many prophecies that have been fulfilled. The two books are different.


The word "creation" implies a creator, it doesn't prove it. The big bang theory is sound scientific evidence of existence _without_ a creator. Saying "creation proves a creator" is like defining a word with itself, it is logically inconsistent. So besides that, what evidence is there that a god exists?

I'm into science and scientific evidence

Have you read the Bible? There are many inconsistencies throughout its text as well as instances of cruelty and inhumanity, if it was in fact divinely inspired by the god you believe in, I wouldn't worship it even if it were real


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

Could you give three examples of biblical prophecy you believe has happened?


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## undercovergrow (Jul 22, 2015)

1. The State of Israel (even the timing is prophetic regarding how long the Jewish people wandered)
2. The recapture of Jerusalem
3. Mass animal deaths and natural disasters increasing subsequently

If creation itself is not enough for you, then nothing I say ever will be. it's odd that someone who professes to love science cannot see the wonderful nature of the Creator.

You do not understand sin and it's consequences because you do not understand Who the offense is against.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

undercovergrow said:


> 1. The State of Israel (even the timing is prophetic regarding how long the Jewish people wandered)
> 2. The recapture of Jerusalem
> 3. Mass animal deaths and natural disasters increasing subsequently
> 
> ...


Be specific, I'm looking for the passage in the Bible that foretells prophecy, then the event in the real world confirming it

Existence is not proof of a creator. In fact, there are many different scientific facts that completely contradict biblical creation (4.5 billion year old Earth, the theory of evolution, etc.)

I don't believe in the concept of sin because I don't believe in God or any organized religion. Sin is a religious concept


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## Dcrack (Jul 22, 2015)

Okay a major prophecy that has been fulfilled recently that signals the end is real and that there is a God because he knows the future and has told us already what is to happen is the alliance between Turkey, Iran (Persia), and Russia(magog). The fact that they are allies is fulfilment of Ezekiel 37-38 and Revelation 20 v 7-10. The fact that never im Human History has theese geographical regions were ever aligned until now and that Persia (or Iran today) help israel in the 7 days war in 1973 now they are against Israel. Just shows how things will change and fulfill time. Almost all scientists agree to some type of divine or supernatural thing had to play into creation of the universe. As if anything were off by a smidge we would never been here nor the universe. The probability of creation happening on its on is so astronimical it is impossible. Science believes in the big bang and that is the best way to describe what he bible says on how the heavens were created. And God Said let there be light. If you donot believe in God or Jesus Christ he still died for you so you may be called righteous. Read the gospel of John and ask for God to prove it to you before you do (truly open minded) and ill bet you will agree that you need salvation. This is not the world God created it is a fallen world that needs forgiveness to go to heaven and the only way for forgiveness is by blood and thats what Christ did when he was at Calvary.
heb.9.22-24.nlt In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

That's not what Ezekiel says. It says there will be a war between Israel and many other nations, and if you pay close attention, the writer doesn't specify a date.. People use this kind of language to do exactly what you're attempting to do, claim it's biblical prophecy. If you believe what you wrote, any war at any time against Israel could be interpreted as fulfillment of the prophecy.. 
That doesn't sound divinely inspired to me. It sounds like the writer knew war was inevitable, as common for the time period

Also, nearly 80%+ of all scientists in all fields of study don't believe in a personal god 



> Ezekiel 37-38 New International Version (NIV)
> 
> *The Valley of Dry Bones*
> 
> ...


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## undercovergrow (Jul 22, 2015)

I think I could take the time to list out the verses regarding Israel's return (a few: Zechariah 8, Isaiah 43, Isaiah 51, Micah 4), Jerusalem being a central point in world events once the Jews controlled it again, the Hosea prophecies regarding the animal deaths increasing along with natural calamities increasing, and you would refute them all since as you clearly stated earlier: you do not believe. Earth billions of years old is what man says it is, evolution is what man says it is--you seem to put a lot of faith in what other men say and not what the Word of God says. You have no proof either that the earth is billions of years old nor that evolution is in fact true. The evidence that creation itself exists is enough, you deny that it is because you so sincerely desire to deny there is a God.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 22, 2015)

undercovergrow said:


> I think I could take the time to list out the verses regarding Israel's return (a few: Zechariah 8, Isaiah 43, Isaiah 51, Micah 4), Jerusalem being a central point in world events once the Jews controlled it again, the Hosea prophecies regarding the animal deaths increasing along with natural calamities increasing, and you would refute them all since as you clearly stated earlier: you do not believe. Earth billions of years old is what man says it is, evolution is what man says it is--you seem to put a lot of faith in what other men say and not what the Word of God says. You have no proof either that the earth is billions of years old nor that evolution is in fact true. The evidence that creation itself exists is enough, you deny that it is because you so sincerely desire to deny there is a God.







http://ideonexus.com/2012/02/12/101-reasons-why-evolution-is-true/

We know how old the Earth is because we can scientifically verify it, we can measure it.. We know evolution happens because we can see it happen, we can test it

Accepting the age of the Earth or evolution doesn't require faith. Faith is belief _without _evidence. Both, determining the age of the Earth and evolution are scientifically verifiable. Why would you guess dolphins and whales, both mammals, swim vertically - that is they move their tails up and down, as opposed to fish who swim horizontally, left to right? Because their ancestors ran on land.. Why would dinosaurs have feathers and chickens have the gene to create teeth, yet have no teeth? Because birds are the descendents of dinosaurs, they even walked the same.. Why would every living thing on Earth be carbon based? Why would humans and chimpanzees share 98% identical DNA? Why would everything after amphibian share a common body structure (4 limbs, 1 head and a tail)? Why would older organisms be found lower in geological strata and younger organisms be found higher? 

These things are scientifically undeniable, whether you believe in god or not


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## dashcues (Jul 22, 2015)

Dcrack said:


> And God Said let there be light.


A poetic prose.The literal reading came later.


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## undercovergrow (Jul 22, 2015)

@Padawanbater2 science has been unable to provide one piece of evidence that proves evolution. all animals have been found in the state they were created-there hasn't been a missing link found. you assume these things are this way (regarding the differences in animals) because you do not want to attribute them to a Creator and instead see them as evidence of evolution. science is unable to provide proof that the earth is that old-it is their best guess. again, you're taking the word of other men over the word of the Creator. you assume that in all periods of the earth's history, it decayed at a stable rate.
the two or three percent that is different from primates and humans is a lot of code in the DNA - just because the Creator utilized carbon based life forms as the primary form doesn't make it less spectacular. 
nice debate. thanks for keeping it civil.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Be specific, I'm looking for the passage in the Bible that foretells prophecy, then the event in the real world confirming it
> 
> Existence is not proof of a creator. In fact, there are many different scientific facts that completely contradict biblical creation (4.5 billion year old Earth, the theory of evolution, etc.)
> 
> I don't believe in the concept of sin because I don't believe in God or any organized religion. Sin is a religious concept



The whole thing about the earth being so many billions years old: You have not studied the Bible very in depth if you believe it says that that is not possible. If you study Genesis 1:2, for example, you find the earth is in a state of "tohu" and "bohu". However, the world was not created that way but BECAME that way. This is because there was a part when angels were over the earth and satan rebelled, taking 1/3rd of the angels with him; satan was in charge of god's government on earth. The point is, there is no where that says how long the angels were on the earth before god had to rejuvenate it because of the destruction caused by the angelic rebellion. Man is god's second fallen species, not the first.

Evolution is impossible. If something evolved into a new species, how could the old species exist?

Creation is simple. If you find a watch in the woods you can't possibly believe it just came together and started ticking. Every piece on it had to be intricately planned out and put together just right in order for it to work and be accurate.

The prophecies of the bible have so much symbolism it takes years of study to truly understand, let alone explain to someone else who doesn't quite get the whole symbolism thing. Some simple prophecies to study would be the "cyrus" prophecy, edom's barrenness, or the Josiah bone prophecy.

It doesn't matter if you believe god is real or not, just like it doesn't matter if you believe in sin or not. If you don't believe, then there is no purpose to your life other than a selfish purpose because you are only living for yourself.


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## Grandpapy (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> http://ideonexus.com/2012/02/12/101-reasons-why-evolution-is-true/
> 
> We know how old the Earth is because we can scientifically verify it, we can measure it.. We know evolution happens because we can see it happen, we can test it
> 
> ...



Imo, the only line in the Bible that hasn't been plagiarized is, "In the Beginning," after that, it has been up for interpretation/manipulation.

Perhaps faith is a discipline, where the answer is down the road. (time) 
If thats the case, it cost you nothing. No tuition fee. Nothing to lose.

Why do we limit what we think is as fact based on our current knowledge when we know the 'current' will change. 
How long will it be till we start using 17% of our brains? Lots of ram for something.


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## Dcrack (Jul 22, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> That's not what Ezekiel says. It says there will be a war between Israel and many other nations, and if you pay close attention, the writer doesn't specify a date.. People use this kind of language to do exactly what you're attempting to do, claim it's biblical prophecy. If you believe what you wrote, any war at any time against Israel could be interpreted as fulfillment of the prophecy..
> That doesn't sound divinely inspired to me. It sounds like the writer knew war was inevitable, as common for the time period
> 
> Also, nearly 80%+ of all scientists in all fields of study don't believe in a personal god


No it is biblical and hebrew scholars all agree magog is russia. Second it does give you a time period it says in chapter 36 says
ezk.36.22.nlt “Therefore, give the people of Israel this message from the Sovereign lord : I am bringing you back, but not because you deserve it. I am doing it to protect my holy name, on which you brought shame while you were scattered among the nations.
So it is after God brings israel back as a naion. This didnt happen untill 1948 so it is talking about right now. Also John refers to Gog and magog in revelation as to refrence exekiel. If only read chapter 38 you didnt read the whole thing. Its not a bunch of nations it literally list them
Son of man, turn and face Gog of the land of Magog(modern day russia), the prince who rules over the nations of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him. Persia(iran), Ethiopia, and Libya will join you, too, with all their weapons.

So its not so vague it tells u when after israel reamerges from basically the dead
happened in 1948 in response to ww2
List countries just in the geographic names of that time. Magog Persia ethopia and libya and they will be united only time in history is this true is now. US chose iran over israel and iran plans on attacking Israel even with the deal the ayatollah was at a party chanting death to America death to israel the day before the deal.


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## justugh (Jul 22, 2015)

undercovergrow said:


> interesting you would post this...i was just doing a Bible study the other day that incorporated how God is STILL in the process of speaking--that's what is holding everything together. the string theory is amazing when you start looking into it.


i thought that idea might make some ppl stop and think .....glad u liked it 



Padawanbater2 said:


> If _anything _*proved* a god exists, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Belief in god, all god's, requires faith


it proves it .....what the guy that did it was saying look at the tech the man that came up with the idea if he had it he would have been able to solve the problem ........the man that did is saying look at tech and how much it helps ......but it still proved that a supreme being exist (something at the top not a random chance ) 

and before there was the bible there was word of mouth and stories ............if u look there is a Flood story (noah type) in every culture hell it was in the cuneiform on a clay tablet 6000 years ago before the jewish ppl 

earth us is old then we thing ..........then u can mess with mayan and ancient greek creations stories ( 2 cultures never spoke but the story the idea is almost the same) ..........i am not saying it 100% or anything like that i am saying something is hidden in there it takes years of thinking to get passed the crap ....and i half think that is the point the jounery not the end ........doing this for years my thinking has change......7 yers ago i was like u wanting to disband and make it all illegal 

but thinking i see that is not the answer ......it is not the right time enough ppl are not thinking for themselves to start a change


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## qwizoking (Jul 23, 2015)

Adaptation is undeniable
Evolution is questionable at best (i prefer not to even aknowledge unless you already understand irreducible complexity and later criticism)

The bible does not specify age of the earth just like it does not say adam was the first man, genesis is a combination of 3 (maybe 4) oral and written tradition about a specific blood line.

We are still in the last day (7) the day of rest. Each day being a period in reference to the pov of someone on earth.. and you cant attempt to calculate age by adding blood lines, it doesnt list all of them. You have to study a little bit of the original languages and read a real study on the chapters to understand, not really a study bible that goes a little in depth but one that breaks down each verse and doesnt list the original text..what pastors etc study from... I think you know my scientific background and ive also thoroughly studied the bible. And continue to do so

Pada, you cant pick the weakest post to reply too, that hardly keeps the debate interesting.


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## The_Herban_Legend (Jul 23, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


>


From a fellow atheist, I approve this message. Great video bud.


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## The_Herban_Legend (Jul 23, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> Adaptation is undeniable
> Evolution is questionable at best (i prefer not to even aknowledge unless you already understand irreducible complexity and later criticism)
> 
> The bible does not specify age of the earth just like it does not say adam was the first man, genesis is a combination of 3 (maybe 4) oral and written tradition about a specific blood line.
> ...


Have you ever wondered why the deity in the old testament is much more blood thirsty than the deity in the new testament? I have an educated guess as to why that is. The deity is a product of mans creation in both the new and old testament. As times change and as man becomes more knowledgeable, able to differentiate an earthquake from a deity's curse for example, so does the authors writings. For example. just look at how far we as society have come just from the 1950's. Civil rights. of African Americans and homosexuals were unheard of. 
Do you really think that a deity exists? If so, then tell me which one of the thousands, exists.


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## qwizoking (Jul 23, 2015)

I dont see a difference between ot and new testament God . I do understand the purpose of Jesus and why it is not one testament..if thats what you dont get
More knowledgeable? Or more ignorant because we think we know.
Not sure how a countries view on african americans, africans or slavery of other groups or homosexuality is an example.
Unless you feel thats prophetic and we are nearing the end of times


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## The_Herban_Legend (Jul 23, 2015)

Yon don't see a difference between the old and new testament? Wow, ok! Do you assume that society is "ignorant" because we have extended civil rights to all or are you just using religion to hide racist views?
Please tell me which of the many deity's created by man exists.


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## The_Herban_Legend (Jul 23, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> I dont see a difference between ot and new testament God . I do understand the purpose of Jesus and why it is not one testament..if thats what you dont get
> More knowledgeable? Or more ignorant because we think we know.
> Not sure how a countries view on african americans, africans or slavery of other groups or homosexuality is an example.
> Unless you feel thats prophetic and we are nearing the end of times


By the way, we do know earthquakes are not created by a deity. If a deity created this Earth, you would assume he would know these simple things.


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## qwizoking (Jul 23, 2015)

No, you cannot say that god could not have started a movement in plates or what have you that created an earthquake on a specific point in time.
Other than that your not making sense. I and the bible agree with equality. The greater degree of ignorance was the inability to see god at work 
I would assume he would know what simple things?
If i had to pick one i would choose the christian God


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## The_Herban_Legend (Jul 23, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> No, you cannot say that god could not have started a movement in plates or what have you that created an earthquake on a specific point in time.
> Other than that your not making sense. I and the bible agree with equality. The greater degree of ignorance was the inability to see god at work
> I would assume he would know what simple things?
> If i had to pick one i would choose the christian God


You are delusional my friend if you think the bible promotes equality. I will stop here because you are now making assumptions based on your personal beliefs.


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## The_Herban_Legend (Jul 23, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> No, you cannot say that god could not have started a movement in plates or what have you that created an earthquake on a specific point in time.
> Other than that your not making sense. I and the bible agree with equality. The greater degree of ignorance was the inability to see god at work
> I would assume he would know what simple things?
> If i had to pick one i would choose the christian God



Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.
Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.


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## qwizoking (Jul 23, 2015)

You are already adding your own beliefs. How can you say the bible does not promote equality. It talks about how you should treat slaves, slaves were accepted then rampant throughout history..and not just of african descent. I would not be adding or interpreting anything for my own gain.... it talks about women as well.. and your children..
Homosexuality isnt seen as proper but who can cast that stone yes? 

There are words meaning different things..yes. as the law, it provided limitations. That doesnt mean it approves of, he would also prefer us not to be married-with somebody. The regulations arent advocations...Atleast your forming coherent thoughts now


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## The_Herban_Legend (Jul 23, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> You are already adding your own beliefs. How can you say the bible does not promote equality. It talks about how you should treat slaves, slaves were accepted then rampant throughout history..and not just of african descent. I would not be adding or interpreting anything for my own gain.... it talks about women as well.. and your children..
> Homosexuality isnt seen as proper but who can cast that stone yes?
> 
> There are words meaning different things..yes. as the law, it provided limitations. That doesnt mean it approves of, he would also prefer us not to be married-with somebody. The regulations arent advocations...Atleast your forming coherent thoughts now


I think you mean YOU'RE you degenerate fool.


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## qwizoking (Jul 23, 2015)

Good argument


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

The *Bible* (from Koine Greek τὰ βιβλία, _tà biblía_, "the books") is a collection of texts sacred in Judaism and Christianity. There is no single "Bible" and many Bibles with varying contents exist.[1] Various religious traditions have produced different recensions with different selections of texts. These do largely overlap however, creating an important common core.

*With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best selling book of all time*,[2][3][4] has estimated annual sales of 100 million copies,[5][6] and has been a major influence on literature and history, especially in the West where it was the first mass-printed book. The Gutenberg Bible was the first Bible printed using movable type.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

The appropriate term to describe Judaism's scriptures is _Tanakh_, although the terms _Bible_ and _Old Testament_ are commonly used by non-Jews to describe Judaism's scriptures.[7] While there is just one Jewish Bible,[8][_not in citation given_] collected together and preserved as the sacred books of the Jewish people, the contents of each of the Christian compilations of canonical texts of the Old Testament vary between different Christian traditions. Jewish scripture was (and is) originally written in Hebrew, the Christian Old and New Testaments were originally written in Koine Greek. The Tanakh has 24 books, the various versions of the Old Testament have more and the containing original 24 books of the Tanakh in a different order.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

By the 2nd century BCE Jewish groups had called the Bible books the "scriptures" and referred to them as "holy," or in Hebrew כִּתְבֵי הַקֹּדֶשׁ (Kitvei hakkodesh), and Christians now commonly call the Old and New Testaments of the Christian Bible "The Holy Bible", in Greek (τὰ βιβλία τὰ ἅγια, _tà biblía tà ágia_) or "the Holy Scriptures" (η Αγία Γραφή, _e Agía Graphḗ_).[12] The Bible was divided into chapters in the 13th century by Stephen Langton and into verses in the 16th century by French printer Robert Estienne[13] and is now usually cited by book, chapter, and verse.

The oldest extant copy of a complete Bible is an early 4th-century parchment book preserved in the Vatican Library, and known as the Codex Vaticanus. The oldest copy of the Tanakh in Hebrew and Aramaic dates to the 10th century CE. The oldest copy of a complete Latin (Vulgate) Bible is the Codex Amiatinus, dating from the 8th century.[14]


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

The 4th century *Codex Sinaiticus* manuscript ("the Sinai Book") is one of the most important texts in Christianity, dating to the time of Constantine the Great.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

*http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/*

*HERE YOU CAN FIND DIGITAL COPIES OF FIRST EVER WRITTEN BIBLE!*


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

*WORLD HAS EXISTED WAY BEFORE YOUR RELIGION HAS BEEN CREATED*


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

*RELIGION IF FOR LOST PEOPLE SEEKING HOPE IN IMAGINARY FRICTION FOR THINGS THEY HAVE NO EXPLANATION TO.*

*MEANWHILE WORLD HAS ADVANCED AND SCIENCE HAS PROVIDED LOGICAL THEORIES AND SCIENTIFIC FACTS.*

*AN NOT TO MENTION YOUR STUPID BIBLE IS WRITTEN BY THE GREEKS.
THE FIRST NATION TO CREATE THE THE WRITINGS.*


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## The_Herban_Legend (Jul 23, 2015)

SweetHayz said:


> *RELIGION IF FOR LOST PEOPLE SEEKING HOPE IN IMAGINARY FRICTION FOR THINGS THEY HAVE NO EXPLANATION TO.*
> 
> *MEANWHILE WORLD HAS ADVANCED AND SCIENCE HAS PROVIDED LOGICAL THEORIES AND SCIENTIFIC FACTS.*
> 
> ...



I like your style but who are you addressing?


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

The_Herban_Legend said:


> I like your style but who are you addressing?


All believers. They are blind to the truth because they have been tough to have faith in a imaginary friction.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

*I believe in Santa Claus and Tooth fairy. Prove they don't exist!*


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## Dcrack (Jul 23, 2015)

[QUOTE="SweetHayz, post: 11772436, member: 900379"

*AN NOT TO MENTION YOUR STUPID BIBLE IS WRITTEN BY THE GREEKS.
THE FIRST NATION TO CREATE THE THE WRITINGS.*[/QUOTE] 
Actually it was written by Jews in greek as that was the written language of the time. Samething as americans writting in english its just the language of the times.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

Good point @Dcrack but it doesn't change the facts.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

*I believe in Santa Claus and Tooth fairy. Prove they don't exist!*


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

*I believe in Santa Claus and Tooth fairy. Prove they don't exist!*


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## tip top toker (Jul 23, 2015)

Gives free will, doesn't like how that free will is being used, floods the whole world to rectify his mistake. If he is real, he sounds like a complete cunt to me.


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## Dcrack (Jul 23, 2015)

1st the code is the oldest complete bible. They have recently (2012) they found 6 manuscripts that contain 45%of the new testament 5 that date to the early 2nd century and 1 that dates to the middle to end of the 1st century. Christ died around 27-33 ad so the apostles would still be alive at the found manuscript. The tora or old testament would already exist as christ spoke of theese scriptures. And yes the world is older than christianity sense christ was born 7-3 bc and was crucified arpund 27-33 ad meaning he came to the world after it aready existed. The old testament or Judaism is the beginning religion. Judaism is based on the law given to Moses. But we all fall short of the glory of God and we would never have met those requirements because how wicked humans are. So the word of God became flesh and was sacrificed that is why he is the lamb of god,.


tip top toker said:


> Gives free will, doesn't like how that free will is being used, floods the whole world to rectify his mistake. If he is real, he sounds like a complete cunt to me.


God did give us free will but commanded we eat not of the tree of knowledge but adam and eve did so we fell we rebelled against God. I give my kids free will but they still have commandment (rules)theyhave to follow or they get punish


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## Dcrack (Jul 23, 2015)

job.40.15-18.asv Behold now, behemoth, which I made as well as thee; He eateth grass as an ox. His bones are as tubes of brass; His limbs are like bars of iron.
The Hebrew word for behemoth means large beast and no living animals fit this description. Elephant and a hippo do not fit. Ill post later but even steven hawking says there was some type of divine workings in the big bang does not say there is a gos but admits it would be impossible with out some type of intelligent being behind it. Listen to apologetic debates you will here more biblical evidence vs dr of science


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## SweetHayz (Jul 23, 2015)

The knowledge came from evolution not from a faking tree. lol

My grandma always said books is knowledge.
I think coke is a good example for the tree of knowledge if you ask me.


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 25, 2015)

SweetHayz said:


> The knowledge came from evolution not from a faking tree. lol
> 
> My grandma always said books is knowledge.
> I think coke is a good example for the tree of knowledge if you ask me.


Knowledge came from god, and not from man or "evolution". Knowledge has a beginning much like everything else in the material universe, unlike your THEORY of evolution. Evolution still has no explanation on why if something came from something else, then why does the first still exist? 


Here:
But let us give the evolutionist the benefit of every consideration. Assume that, at each mutational step, there is equally as much chance for it to be good as bad. Thus, the probability for the success of each mutation is assumed to be one out of two, or one-half. Elementary statistical theory shows that the probability of 200 successive mutations being successful is then (½)200, or one chance out of 1060. The number 1060, if written out, would be "one" followed by sixty "zeros." In other words, the chance that a 200-component organism could be formed by mutation and natural selection is less than one chance out of a trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion! Lest anyone think that a 200-part system is unreasonably complex, it should be noted that even a one-celled plant or animal may have millions of molecular "parts."

The evolutionist might react by saying that even though any one such mutating organism might not be successful, surely some around the world would be, especially in the 10 billion years (or 1018 seconds) of assumed earth history. Therefore, let us imagine that every one of the earth's 1014 square feet of surface harbors a billion (i.e., 109) mutating systems and that each mutation requires one-half second (actually it would take far more time than this). Each system can thus go through its 200 mutations in 100 seconds and then, if it is unsuccessful, start over for a new try. In 1018 seconds, there can, therefore, be 1018/102, or 1016, trials by each mutating system. Multiplying all these numbers together, there would be a total possible number of attempts to develop a 200-component system equal to 1014 (109) (1016), or 1039 attempts. Since the probability against the success of any one of them is 1060, it is obvious that the probability that just one of these 1039 attempts might be successful is only one out of 1060/1039, or 1021.

All this means that the chance that any kind of a 200-component integrated functioning organism could be developed by mutation and natural selection just once, anywhere in the world, in all the assumed expanse of geologic time, is less than one chance out of a billion trillion. What possible conclusion, therefore, can we derive from such considerations as this except that evolution by mutation and natural selection is mathematically and logically indefensible!



You need to do a few lines, maybe even a whole chapter out of god's word every day.


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## TBoneJack (Jul 25, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3avixv/serious_what_makes_you_believe_that_god_is_real/
> 
> These answers are what we'd expect.. Very shallow and not very well thought out.. Something meant for the moment, not our entire existence..
> 
> ...


I believe in God, guts, and guns. In that order.

I have faith that God exists, although I don't blame others for not believing.

Is it that much harder to believe that God exists, than to believe the massive heavens just one day exploded into existence?


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## 757growin (Jul 25, 2015)

undercovergrow said:


> using your example:
> suppose before your ocean excursion, someone had told you to put on a life vest because it could save your life if the current pulls you too far out. you think it foolish to wear it as it will impede your experience of the ocean so you refuse it. as you are already aware, in that moment of near-drowning, you were willing to grab on to anything to save your life--even at the expense of your friend's life--and probably wished you had a life jacket. that is what Jesus Christ is: He is your life vest. now is the time to put Him on. James 4:14 ...for what is your life? it is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away.
> 
> _________
> ...


Except a life jacket would actually save his life. Pray to Jesus or whoever you want to won't do much good. Probably help you sink quicker. Instead remembering bible school lessons should of been at swim lessons. Actual preparation for life is much more useful. Like packing a swim vest.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 25, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> Knowledge came from god, and not from man or "evolution". Knowledge has a beginning much like everything else in the material universe, unlike your THEORY of evolution. Evolution still has no explanation on why if something came from something else, then why does the first still exist?


Unlike your THEORY of god's existence. Science supply you with facts, unlike religion with fairy tales.
Evolution does not always involve mutation. You go Wikipedia and find definition for the word "*mutation*" and the word "*evolution*". As far as i'm concerned you are talking about Darvin's theory that humans came from monkeys which is totally wrong because humans and monkeys are completely difference species.
Perhaps unlike you, I don't believe in foolish theories and fairy tales. I look for explanation.
There is things that humans haven't yet found explanations to (like the universe and many other things), maybe we will never find the explanation withing our entire species life span. That doesn't mean god is the explanation. God is the explanation to blind people, to stupid people with limited thoughts. God is the explanation for people that seek no explanation.
The structure of our genetic codes are changing with each next generation depending on the life we live. That is evolution. It does not affect us as in mutation. We just adapt to new ways of living.

*


SamsonsRiddle said:



You need to do a few lines, maybe even a whole chapter out of god's word every day

Click to expand...

*If i wanted to read fairy tales, i'd read Twilight instead.

Let me cite something:



> A lack of knowledge of the natural world was easily the Bible writers' Achilles' heel and was already apparent in just the book's first five verses. Take what the author(s) says about night and day in the Book of Genesis, chapter one, verses 4 and 5 (KJV), for instance:
> 
> 4) "And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness." 5) "And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."
> 
> ...


Back in the days when humans wrote your stupid bible they still believed earth was flat.


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## bearkat42 (Jul 25, 2015)

Did I just get my first post deleted?? A YouTube video??? Of all the shit that's posted in here, you delete this?? It's a freakin' TV show. Well here, delete it again!!


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## SweetHayz (Jul 25, 2015)

bearkat42 said:


> Did I just get my first post deleted?? A YouTube video??? Of all the shit that's posted in here, you delete this?? Well here, delete it again!!


You post was posted on completely different thread. Smoke less buddy


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## bearkat42 (Jul 25, 2015)

SweetHayz said:


> You post was posted on completely different thread. Smoke less buddy


Oops, maybe you're right!!


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## undercovergrow (Jul 25, 2015)

757growin said:


> Except a life jacket would actually save his life. Pray to Jesus or whoever you want to won't do much good. Probably help you sink quicker. Instead remembering bible school lessons should of been at swim lessons. Actual preparation for life is much more useful. Like packing a swim vest.


it was more of an allegory to illustrate Who Jesus is and how He saves, not an actual example of what to do when drowning.


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## 757growin (Jul 25, 2015)

undercovergrow said:


> it was more of an allegory to illustrate Who Jesus is and how He saves, not an actual example of what to do when drowning.


I understood what you were saying. And all I was saying was real life preparation is much more valuable use of time.


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## undercovergrow (Jul 25, 2015)

757growin said:


> I understood what you were saying. And all I was saying was real life preparation is much more valuable use of time.


that is what this life is for: preparation for what comes next. we have this life to identify the Way, Truth, and Life solely for our next life.

ETA: i have told my son since he was 8 years old that he was making decisions that were going to effect him for the rest of his life; he didn't understand what i meant. when he was 13, i told him again he was making decisions that were going to have lasting effects; he understood a little better. when he was 16 though, he did understand what i had meant all along. we are all making decisions today that will effect our eternity.


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## bearkat42 (Jul 25, 2015)

TBoneJack said:


> I believe in God, guts, and guns. In that order.
> 
> I have faith that God exists, although I don't blame others for not believing.
> 
> Is it that much harder to believe that God exists, than to believe the massive heavens just one day exploded into existence?


Much harder


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## SamsonsRiddle (Jul 25, 2015)

SweetHayz said:


> Unlike your THEORY of god's existence. Science supply you with facts, unlike religion with fairy tales.
> Evolution does not always involve mutation. You go Wikipedia and find definition for the word "*mutation*" and the word "*evolution*". As far as i'm concerned you are talking about Darvin's theory that humans came from monkeys which is totally wrong because humans and monkeys are completely difference species.
> Perhaps unlike you, I don't believe in foolish theories and fairy tales. I look for explanation.
> There is things that humans haven't yet found explanations to (like the universe and many other things), maybe we will never find the explanation withing our entire species life span. That doesn't mean god is the explanation. God is the explanation to blind people, to stupid people with limited thoughts. God is the explanation for people that seek no explanation.
> ...


The Bible indicates that the earth is round. Consider Isaiah 40:22 which mentions the “circle of the earth.” This description is certainly fitting—particularly when the earth is viewed from space; the earth always appears as a circle since it is round.

Another verse that indicates the spherical nature of our planet is Job 26:10. This verse teaches that God has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters at the boundary of light and darkness. This boundary between light and darkness (day and night) is called the “terminator” since the light stops or “terminates” there. Someone standing on the terminator would be experiencing either a sunrise or a sunset; they are going from day to night or from night to day. The terminator is always a circle, because the earth is round.

I don't know where you get your "facts" from but most of the shit in your posts about what God's Word says is completely inaccurate. 

Also, you look at it materially when it is a spiritual book. If you look where god created the light and the dark it is not talking about material light and dark, but good and evil. It's called symbolism. Maybe you need to study the bible more before you argue against what it "says".


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## Thor_ (Jul 25, 2015)

my 2p worth and somewhat irrelevant lol


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 25, 2015)

TBoneJack said:


> Is it that much harder to believe that God exists, than to believe the massive heavens just one day exploded into existence?


I don't choose my beliefs. It's not like I can just choose one over the other.. One has evidence to support it, the other requires faith; belief _without_ evidence. I can no more believe in something that doesn't have evidence than I can fly or breathe under water


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## Thor_ (Jul 25, 2015)

This one always makes me laugh and so true


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## TBoneJack (Jul 25, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I don't choose my beliefs. It's not like I can just choose one over the other.. One has evidence to support it, the other requires faith; belief _without_ evidence. I can no more believe in something that doesn't have evidence than I can fly or breathe under water


Your post makes sense. However, I can believe some things on faith. Or at least not completely discount them in the absence of undeniable proof one way or the other. That can be dangerous, I know.

I see us as ants (size-wise and smarts-wise) in a universe so big and complex that we can't truly comprehend. And yet people are so sure that God cannot exist.

I've never seen God. Neither have I heard him. But in my view of the vast unknown out there, I certainly can't say he doesn't exist. And in fact, for the most part (though I have some reasonable doubts), I believe in Him.

Your point is well-taken: there is no proof that God exists. But to me there is so much we don't yet know or understand.


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## TBoneJack (Jul 25, 2015)

bearkat42 said:


> Much harder


To each his own.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 25, 2015)

TBoneJack said:


> Your post makes sense. However, I can believe some things on faith. Or at least not completely discount them in the absence of undeniable proof one way or the other. That can be dangerous, I know.
> 
> I see us as ants (size-wise and smarts-wise) in a universe so big and complex that we can't truly comprehend. And yet people are so sure that God cannot exist.
> 
> ...


Then why don't you believe in any of the thousands of other gods? You don't know if they exist, either, right? So why not believe in Allah, Zeus, Odin, etc.?


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## TBoneJack (Jul 25, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Then why don't you believe in any of the thousands of other gods? You don't know if they exist, either, right? So why not believe in Allah, Zeus, Odin, etc.?


I studied those religions in high school and college. But I was raised a Christian from a very young age. So, either of two possibilities occurred:

1. Christianity is so right that even a child can see it.

2. At the most impressionable age, I was told things that I believed, and became so ingrained in me as to become part of my mental makeup, even if they were wrong.

The central theme of Christianity is different than the multi-god religions. And I'm no expert on other religions, so please let's don't debate on their central themes. I would lose.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 25, 2015)

TBoneJack said:


> I studied those religions in high school and college. But I was raised a Christian from a very young age. So, either of two possibilities occurred:
> 
> 1. Christianity is so right that even a child can see it.
> 
> ...


You believe it because you were raised to believe it

Does it matter to you if it's not true?


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## TBoneJack (Jul 25, 2015)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You believe it because you were raised to believe it
> 
> Does it matter to you if it's not true?


It would matter to me if it's not true. I'd be disappointed. Not that I'd ever know it.

I have my doubts. I realize the Bible has flaws. There are parts of it I absolutely don't believe. But I believe in God, and that's never going to change for me, although I have given it a chance to change by challenging my own beliefs.

People don't really choose what they believe in their heart of hearts. IMO.


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## SweetHayz (Jul 26, 2015)

SamsonsRiddle said:


> The Bible indicates that the earth is round. Consider Isaiah 40:22 which mentions the “circle of the earth.” This description is certainly fitting—particularly when the earth is viewed from space; the earth always appears as a circle since it is round.
> 
> Another verse that indicates the spherical nature of our planet is Job 26:10. This verse teaches that God has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters at the boundary of light and darkness. This boundary between light and darkness (day and night) is called the “terminator” since the light stops or “terminates” there. Someone standing on the terminator would be experiencing either a sunrise or a sunset; they are going from day to night or from night to day. The terminator is always a circle, because the earth is round.
> 
> ...


Please back up your theories with cites and evidence. Otherwise you are just talking shit.

Isaiah 40:22
"He is the one who sits on the earth's horizon; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers before him. He is the one who stretches out the sky like a thin curtain, and spreads it out like a pitched tent."

Job 26:10
"He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness."

I believe the Human's words you read are pretty edited to the original by the religion that printed them.
Please find original digital source online and see a correct translation of the pages.

P.S. I started my research by finding the year of first theories in round earth by a greek philosopher at 6th century BC.
Then I looked for Book of Isaiah which was written at 8th century BCE which did not match my believes.
I admit I was pretty surprised at the beginning. I tough it could have been metaphor just like circle of life. Then I decided to look into the original text of the Dead Sea Scrolls and then I realized the originality was lost due to edits and translation.
Of coarse, If god has represented the earth to be "circle" from the very beginning, humanity would have believed in it and there would have not been so many people burnt alive for claiming the earth was round.
As every religion represents the bible differently. In a thousand years from now the bible will have nothing in common with its originality due to edits to adapt the book to fairly new beliefs. If this particular virtual data I've posted here remains in thousand years, then my prophecy has a high chance to be very accurate.

Good Luck. Have Fun!


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