# Notorious BIG > Everyone Else.



## themanwiththeplan (Dec 2, 2011)

Thats a pretty bold statement I know but up to this point I wouldn't feel good putting anyone above him. Im sure ill catch crap for saying that but its so true and no one could possibly put a song/video/clip up to make me change my mind. 

Dude only dropped 2 albums and has more talent than anyone. yes anyone. 2pac (yes i said it)...lil wayne (hahaha easily) or any other mickey mouse "pay me my millions but i dont talk about shit" ass rapper out there.

Its official






EDIT: before anyone accuses me from being from brooklyn or NY or even the east coast you should know im west coast born and raised.


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## tip top toker (Dec 2, 2011)

Wouldn't know tbh. Watched the film and thought the music SUCKED


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 2, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> Wouldn't know tbh. Watched the film and thought the music SUCKED


[video=youtube;4rKnMp9U-Lg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rKnMp9U-Lg[/video]

[video=youtube;qiOYnAwkfIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiOYnAwkfIA[/video]

[video=youtube;oXD13muM8U4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXD13muM8U4[/video]

[video=youtube;TX0RTh4_YfE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX0RTh4_YfE[/video]

[video=youtube;l0kJ8GM283Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0kJ8GM283Q[/video]




i could go on but if i did i might just have to post all his tracks. these are a good starting point w/ a few freestyles mixed for added entertainment (and prove he was just as good off the top of his head)


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## tip top toker (Dec 2, 2011)

Yeah, i'll stick with my earlier statement. If they had talent, they'd sing and create music, not just talk with a beat  Not gonna be converting me to that nonsense anytime soon


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 2, 2011)

Oh and to be clear the reason i say Biggie > everyone else is also because he was so good, so young. he died at what...24? he was just getting started. 2 albums and to this day people still listen to him. i know i do. I recently came to the conclusion big > everyone else because when i hear a track or freestyle from him it makes me look down on the rest of the tracks in my playlist by other artists. 

pretty much no 1 was murdering shit the way he was. not even 2pac imo. 

what makes him good imo is that he didnt have many tracks or verses that were worth skipping over. almost all were good. the only "bad verse" ive ever heard from him i can think of off the top of my head is the 2nd verse on the r kelly/big "im f**kin u tonight" track. thats probably the weakest thing ive heard from him and thats only because of the standard he set for himself. any rapper today would have been happy if they wrote it but for his standard it was lacking.

you hear guys like lil wayne and stuff and you find many more tracks worth skipping than listening to. thats what makes a good musician imo (not just rapper). if you can make people like/listen to more tracks than they skip then you're the real deal imo.


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 2, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> Yeah, i'll stick with my earlier statement. If they had talent, they'd sing and create music, not just talk with a beat  Not gonna be converting me to that nonsense anytime soon


wow. you didnt even give it a chance as the vids are longer than the time it took between my post and yours (4mins) 

i can respect someone that disagrees with what i said...as we all are open to our own opinions but to just dismiss a whole genre because its supposedly "talking" over/with a beat instead of "real" music is bullsh*t. 

If it didn't take talent then everyone would do it and be just as good. its actually pretty hard to rhyme (especially freestyle) let alone have it actually make sense, be smooth, and use clever metaphors. lots of people can do that with a pen and paper and a few hours to work it out but doing it off the top of your head is hard. if not go ahead and make your own youtube video and post it up. go on to sell a few million records..


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## tip top toker (Dec 2, 2011)

themanwiththeplan said:


> wow. you didnt even give it a chance as the vids are longer than the time it took between my post and yours (4mins)
> 
> i can respect someone that disagrees with what i said...as we all are open to our own opinions but to just dismiss a whole genre because its supposedly "talking" over/with a beat instead of "real" music is bullsh*t.
> 
> If it didn't take talent then everyone would do it and be just as good. its actually pretty hard to rhyme (especially freestyle) let alone have it actually make sense, be smooth, and use clever metaphors. lots of people can do that with a pen and paper and a few hours to work it out but doing it off the top of your head is hard. if not go ahead and make your own youtube video and post it up. go on to sell a few million records..


No, i did not watch them, i watched part of the fist video and figured to hell with the rest  If i was trying to convince someone, i'd start on a strong note, certianly didn't seem a strong note, just rap. I'm the type of person who likes the sound of music, not the lyrics, i ahve bever in my life taken the time to consider what is being said, but rather consider how it all sounds. So yes, i dismiss a whole genre because of how it sounds, because to me, it sounds shit, because i look for a certain thing in my music, and it's not the lyrics, and if it is, it's the sound the words make, not their meaning, why i love foreign music. 

And you're stepping a VERY shakey line if you're talking about talent and the music industry  I mean heck, half the artists in the music industry are simply picked to sing someone elses song, all they have is the voice. Freestyle i can certainly see as a talent and a great thing, but again, no way i'd sit and listen to any of it.

I think one of the only "rap" songs i've liked is J Z's blueprint pt 2 and that was purely because he used a fantastic metallica orchestral track for the backing music


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 2, 2011)

point taken. i still say you're in the right thread but 2 each their own.


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## resinousflowers (Dec 2, 2011)

pac had more talent,he more depth to his music,more content and subject matter and content.plus he wrote screenplays and acted in movies.plus when he was alive pac had the crown.who was fucking with pac when he was alive?also pac made more albums and classic songs,plus he schooled biggie,taught biggie the game,he was the first rapper to release a double album,the first rapper to release a album using 0 samples,first rapper to have 2 hit songs while in prison,first solo rapper to reach 75 million records sold mark(to date its over 100million)and his work is taught to ppl in a number of colleges and universitys in different parts of the world.
biggie was a good rapper,but he bullshited ALOT,thats what helped him make the songs he did,he rarely spoke that real shit,it was mainly fantasy.he rarely spoke about his real life.and when he did speak about his real life he still lied,like when he said"i grew up in a one room shack"no he didnt,he grew up in a 3 bedroom apartment in brooklyn.plus i dont like the fact he rapped about fucking kids in the arse and throwing there bodies off buildings.and i dont like the fact he rapped about stabbing pregnant women in the belly.and the lies in that notorious movie are ridiculous.he was a very talented rapper but he was a coward and didnt do enough to be considered the G.O.A.T. with only 2 albums compared to pacs 9 albums,and that doesnt include loyal to the game,and resurrection.

[video=youtube;DrKT8HN07co]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrKT8HN07co[/video]


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## tip top toker (Dec 2, 2011)

Haha, music matters are being discussed be it Biggie or not, sounds like the thread has achieved more than it's not 

Oh snap! Game on! ResinousFlowers enters stage left


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## resinousflowers (Dec 2, 2011)

substance,content and just real talk.his songs are actually about something worth rapping about,reality.

[video=youtube;JRp4me54Z9s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRp4me54Z9s&feature=related[/video]


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## resinousflowers (Dec 2, 2011)

the original version with different chorus.deep.

[video=youtube;F0qNk0dp5Vg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0qNk0dp5Vg[/video]


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## resinousflowers (Dec 2, 2011)

[video=youtube;W69SSLfRJho]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69SSLfRJho&feature=related[/video]


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 2, 2011)

im not dismissing 2pac. Please don't think that. 2pac's work is worthy of being taught in college. He did do amazing things. 

However when it comes strictly to rap i still say biggie > pac.

biggie had a flow about him that made others envious. i think the fact that biggie was only alive for 2 albums and still gets the amount of respect he does to this day and is still relevant says a lot. I can't think of another artist to only have two albums who is as relevant.

just the thought that people still ask/debate/contemplate who is better (biggie or pac) says a lot right there. 

I think for as long as he was alive he accomplished more than just about everyone. 

Look how many albums guys like 2pac and lil wayne had to release to get that amount of buzz? biggie was hot from demo tape to life after death. he hardly has any tracks that were worth skipping in his two albums. 

2pac did school biggie to the rap game but its not like he wrote biggies material. i mean at the time that freestyle was recorded (1989) he didnt even know 2pac yet. he was only 17 at the time...When i was 17 i never met a person with half of his skill on their best day.

2pac was more successful overall but how many albums and movies did that take compared to biggie's 2 albums?

I just think flow for flow biggie eats him. Lots of rappers these days rap "over" beats...biggie rapped and became the beat if that makes sense. in almost every track he released his rhymes were 1 with the music track. he was smooth. i guess thats the word im looking for. smoother than 99% of rappers today thats for sure. 

I think if biggie lived a few more years or wasnt shot at all we'd be unanimously calling him the GOAT considering how well he did from his first two albums. i mean the growth he showed on his 2nd album says it all. he wasn't just a great freestyler or rapper but he was one hell of a song writer the way he was able to go from freestyle king to hit maker while NOT selling out at the same time. lil wayne became a hit maker but comparing his work of today to his beginnings he did sell out. 

most rappers who hit it big have to sellout these days...thats something big never did and still have nationwide (maybe worldwide) appeal.


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## JayJayDaStoner (Dec 3, 2011)

themanwiththeplan said:


> im not dismissing 2pac. Please don't think that. 2pac's work is worthy of being taught in college. He did do amazing things.
> 
> However when it comes strictly to rap i still say biggie > pac.
> 
> ...


I am with you on the Flow/wordplay steeze that Big had, I also agree that 2pac has more substance to his music had a message.
BIG was a story teller and a really good one same with BigL and many other artists of that time period but the way his flow fit a beat is unmatchable
all in My opinion of course


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## Sandbagger (Dec 3, 2011)

Jimi Hendrix was a 1,000,000 times better than those other dead f*ckers. I wouldn't be caught dead listening to that shit.


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## NoSwag (Dec 3, 2011)

I love rap genre as a whole, and I dislike a lot, but to me BIG is a good rapper/fat prick. I cant stand half the songs about nutting on a chick with his overweight ass and making her suck it up off his fat buddha belly, it's not my style.


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 4, 2011)

JayJayDaStoner said:


> I am with you on the Flow/wordplay steeze that Big had, I also agree that 2pac has more substance to his music had a message.
> BIG was a story teller and a really good one same with BigL and many other artists of that time period but the way his flow fit a beat is unmatchable
> all in My opinion of course


I can agree with pretty much all of this. Both were great in opposite ways. it seems like what biggie lacks, 2pac has...and the other way around. If they did a record together it would have probably been the greatest selling rap album in history.




Sandbagger said:


> Jimi Hendrix was a 1,000,000 times better than those other dead f*ckers. I wouldn't be caught dead listening to that shit.


Yeah. Better at what HE did. Jimi Hendrix and biggie/pac is like comparing tony hawk to ali. both great. both athletes...but very different. In their respective genres they were all equally great. jimi's instrument was his guitar...biggie/pac's instruments were their minds and voices. 




NoSwag said:


> I love rap genre as a whole, and I dislike a lot, but to me BIG is a good rapper/fat prick. I cant stand half the songs about nutting on a chick with his overweight ass and making her suck it up off his fat buddha belly, it's not my style.


which is respectable. Some love it. some hate it. I love delivery so i dont mind what is said all the time more so how it was put together. thats what makes me like biggie. not many other rappers put things together so smoothly. 

whats funny is girls loved biggie back when he was around. no matter how much he said about them lol.


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## Sandbagger (Dec 4, 2011)

themanwiththeplan said:


> Yeah. Better at what HE did. Jimi Hendrix and biggie/pac is like comparing tony hawk to ali. both great. both athletes...but very different. In their respective genres they were all equally great. jimi's instrument was his guitar...biggie/pac's instruments were their minds and voices.


What Hendix did was actually make music not just play a guitar. He could do it all. He wrote, played, and sang it. Unlike those other wannabe thugs you mention. Their crap is not music. There is a rap song you should listen to by a group called Itis. Rap with a C.....C-R-A-P.


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## LeeGullEyes (Dec 4, 2011)

Any good artist makes their songs about things. In Biggies case look at ready to die and life after death those songs all have themes where as lil wayne talks about how awesome he is in 90% of his songs

The Notorious BIG is limited by Gangsta Rap as theres only so many things he can rap about

Kid Cudi, also in the hip hop category, was poor and made something of himself while avoiding the crack and guns allowing his songs to cover a wider variety of themes

Now im with you I love all the hardcore basically Eminem and everything before, especially biggie. I thought Kid Cudi was like lil wayne drake and anyone on the radio

There are very few albums you can listen to front to back (Illmatic, Ready to Die, Life After Death, Slim Shady Marshall Mathers LP's). And 3 of Kid Cudis albums fit in that Category. Biggie, Eminem, 2pac, Outkast had 2.

He is the TRUTH

Listen to- A Kid Named Cudi, Man on the Moon (1 and 2) They will blow ur mind

Dont forget to smoke some pot first


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## LeeGullEyes (Dec 4, 2011)

themanwiththeplan said:


> Oh and to be clear the reason i say Biggie > everyone else is also because he was so good, so young. he died at what...24? he was just getting started. 2 albums and to this day people still listen to him. i know i do. I recently came to the conclusion big > everyone else because when i hear a track or freestyle from him it makes me look down on the rest of the tracks in my playlist by other artists.
> 
> pretty much no 1 was murdering shit the way he was. not even 2pac imo.
> 
> ...


Also Kid Cudi was 25 when his 3rd dropped and it was, in my opinion, his best. Life After Death was dope but not even close to his first, ready to die. I mean like signifigantly worse, but still made by a god.

And if u want to hear freestyles my friend listen to 95 and 98 freestyle by Big L

Before I buck lead and make a lot of blood shed
Turn your tux red, I'm far from broke, got enough bread
And mad hoes, ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead

A freestyle between Biggie and Big L would explode your brain


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## Sandbagger (Dec 4, 2011)

A grade schooler could write better lyrics than that crap above. ^


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 4, 2011)

Sandbagger said:


> What Hendix did was actually make music not just play a guitar. He could do it all. He wrote, played, and sang it. Unlike those other wannabe thugs you mention. Their crap is not music. There is a rap song you should listen to by a group called Itis. Rap with a C.....C-R-A-P.





Sandbagger said:


> A grade schooler could write better lyrics than that crap above. ^


Do it then. since jimi did it all and the likes of biggie and 2pac are "wannabe thugs" and rap is crap then do it. if its that bad then anyone should be able to do it right? 

make an album and see how well it sells...fuk a album...write a song and see how good it blows over w/ the public...or even just give me 16 bars that makes my jaw drop. 

you couldn't, cant, wont, will never. why? because its a relevant art-from/style of music.

remember these artists weren't made by the likes of MTV. Nor were they the product of "really good management" or even ghostwriters. these are 2 guys who are true artists. 

I think its funny how someone comes along (not just you several others) and immediately say, "rap is crap" and dismiss it as a form of music simply because they either:
A) Don't understand it
or
B) are jealous of a talent they don't have/cant build on.

were talking about rappers SO good that they could say something...be 3-4 bars further into the track and your brain is just NOW processing what they said and you have to rewind the track to catch what you missed while thinking about what they got done saying...THAT GOOD. 

i dont think ive ever heard a guitar riff or solo that i had to rewind because my brain couldn't process it fast enough lol. (not dissing jimi just proving a point...it does take just as much practice as jimi did w/ his guitar. you dont rap that well w/o serious practice)

rapping is a skill. Unfortunately many people these days don't understand that because all they hear and see is the gucci man/lil wayne crap on the radio/mtv and thats all they associate rap with is heavy bass, shitty hooks, and a "look at me im rich, fuck hoes and shoot guns" attitude.

if its crap do better. i dare you.



LeeGullEyes said:


> Any good artist makes their songs about things. In Biggies case look at ready to die and life after death those songs all have themes where as lil wayne talks about how awesome he is in 90% of his songs
> 
> The Notorious BIG is limited by Gangsta Rap as theres only so many things he can rap about
> 
> ...





LeeGullEyes said:


> Also Kid Cudi was 25 when his 3rd dropped and it was, in my opinion, his best. Life After Death was dope but not even close to his first, ready to die. I mean like signifigantly worse, but still made by a god.
> 
> And if u want to hear freestyles my friend listen to 95 and 98 freestyle by Big L
> 
> ...


 
I agree w/ pretty much everything you said. today rap is in a "state of emergency" (imo) kind of like where 80s heavy metal was when nirvana came along.

It just saddens me that clowns don't take the time to learn anything about the genre (or the greats of the genre). instead they rather bash it and dismiss it without even taking the time to understand it. if they wont take the time to understand it then dont dismiss it. 

oh yeah...btw...BIG L was pretty dope i might say. I thought he was great too. i still play him to this day too. Ive seen some rappers today show promise but for one reason or another they all tend to fall off before getting to the next level with their skill. 

Like in the beginning of his mixtape career i thought papoose had potential to be one of the next "great" ones but the longer his mixtape career went the worse he got. but freestyle wise i'd say he's probably top 10-20 alive. his song writing ability = sucky.

thats the other problem with rap today. we have great hitmakers/hook writers that suck at the actual rap part or we have great freestylers who can't write a proper song to save their life. THATS what makes me appreciate our greats that much more (biggie, big L, pac, and so on) as they had the ability to do both. rap and write songs that were actually pleasing to the ears.


lil wayne = great hit maker...shitty rapper overall (not alot of substance and he's repetitive almost like he ran out of things to say after all these mixtapes/albums)...its all "look at me! im so fukin rich!" 

and don't get me started on the "gimmick" rappers. i see lots of them these days too. which is sad.


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 4, 2011)

pretty much...these days rappers will do anything to make a buck and back in the day rappers would rap strictly for the love and skill building freestyling can bring. which is also what happened to heavy metal in the 80s...it became a gimmick to earn money and the song quality sucked and the fans lost interest.

thats whats happening to rap today and thats what happened to emo whenever that fad got popular and dies out...

first it was about the love of the music...then a million copycats came along for a payday and took it to hell. thats how it always works.


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## Sandbagger (Dec 4, 2011)

I wouldn't lower myself into pretending that I am a wannabe thug. The crap is NOT music. It is BS aimed at the ghetto and all the wannabe punk thugs eat it up with a spoon because they don't know any better.


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 5, 2011)

Sandbagger said:


> I wouldn't lower myself into pretending that I am a wannabe thug. The crap is NOT music. It is BS aimed at the ghetto and all the wannabe punk thugs eat it up with a spoon because they don't know any better.


has nothing to do with it. talent is talent. rhyme about space and the clouds or the inner workings of a piston. you can rap/rhyme anything...the subject of the rhyme has nothing to do with the talent of the one doing the rhyming.


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## Fight411 (Dec 5, 2011)

Los spits shit that explodes my brain. Give em a listen, you won't be sorry. Only downfall is alot of people can't understand the genius he says.


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 5, 2011)

Not my style but worth a mention. i see potential. he's got flow for sure but the delivery and hooks could use a lil work. 

he would fall into that "good freestyle/flow but not a good songmaker." 

just saying...he's got it though.


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## zhn0k (Dec 5, 2011)

big L tops biggie... don't get me wrong though -- i &#9829; biggie as well.

please listen to this -- because it's lyricism at it's finest right here:

[video=youtube;Hd-0FMhtST4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd-0FMhtST4[/video]


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## Wogtaz Ryder (Dec 6, 2011)

Im into Hopsin atm . great lyrics . some good songwriting to .


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## ...... (Dec 6, 2011)

Big L dont got shit on biggie.
As for biggie vs pac it depends how im feeling that day.There both good in there own way,I dont really think ones better then the other.
Rappers now a days blows up cause the beats are bangers and thats what people wanna hear when there in the club.


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## ...... (Dec 6, 2011)

pac cant make a song like this
[video=youtube;ZzvL4O3uomg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzvL4O3uomg[/video]


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 6, 2011)

zhn0k said:


> big L tops biggie... don't get me wrong though -- i &#9829; biggie as well.
> 
> please listen to this -- because it's lyricism at it's finest right here:
> 
> [video=youtube;Hd-0FMhtST4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd-0FMhtST4[/video]



you dont have to preach big L to me! i been a big fan. Really its hard to say whos best as everyone in rap has different styles but i definitely have a taste for the best ones. 

I can't get into most of todays stuff unless i "forget" about the greats of the late 80s/90s.

I use to be big on jay Z but imo he lost it w/ the more albums he did. Now he's kind of a...joke compared to his first few albums. to this day i still listen to the early albums of his.


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## socalkushgenetics (Dec 9, 2011)

2pac "king" biggie 2ndary


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## ÒÒlegilizeitÒÒ (Dec 9, 2011)

[video=youtube;s4M8GjgfG9k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4M8GjgfG9k&feature=BFa&list=PL1994D0D21CEAAC7B&lf=BFp[/video]
[video=youtube;6ihPOTDxMfE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihPOTDxMfE&feature=BFa&list=PL1994D0D21CEAAC7B&lf=BFp[/video]


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## GarvinStomp (Dec 9, 2011)

Biggie had some awesome tracks but I think he suffers from Kurt Cobain syndrome where if he was still alive today, you really don't know how much success he would have had. Would he have went with the times or would he have adapted? There's a lot up in the air on whether he had the staying power...but for his time, yes, he was pretty good


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## LeeGullEyes (Dec 10, 2011)

GarvinStomp said:


> Biggie had some awesome tracks but I think he suffers from Kurt Cobain syndrome where if he was still alive today, *you really don't know how much success he would have had*. Would he have went with the times or would he have adapted? There's a lot up in the air on whether he had the staying power...but for his time, yes, he was pretty good


His second album was a SIGNIFIGANT fall off. Hes so immortalized because of ready to die. Him dying was ironically the best thing that ever happened.

If hes still alive... genius


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## rainman36 (Dec 17, 2011)

[video=youtube;KB7cV3oJQFc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB7cV3oJQFc[/video]
THIS THREAD COOL AND EVERYTHANG,BUT 2PAC HAD SOME OF THE ILLEST SONGS OF ALL TIME....*WALKS OFF STAGE*


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## mccumcumber (Dec 17, 2011)

Double K my friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKGth8naRXs
And if you're not into jazz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8av64Va_-4
If you're about the gangsta shit then I sway more toward Guru than I do Biggy, but it could be because I have just listened to too much biggy.

Edit: Mr. Lif holds it down too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enQsdbcMOiQ


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## FilthyFizzle (Dec 17, 2011)

as i grab the glock, put it to your headpiece
theres on in the chamber the safety is off release straight to your dome homes
i wanna see cabbage
biggie smalls a savage
doin your braincells much damage
Teflon is the material for the imperial
Mic grippa girl strippa the henny sippa
I drop lyrics off and on like a light switch
Quick to grab the white bitch and make her drive the Q
.45s glock and techs are expected when i wreck shit
Respect is collected so check it
I got techniques drippin out my but cheeks
Sleep on my stomach so i dont fuck up my sheets.
My my shit is deep
deeper than my grave g
i'm ready to die and nobody can save me
fuck the world fuck my ma and my girl
my life is played out like a jerri curl
Im ready to die


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## FilthyFizzle (Dec 17, 2011)

[video=youtube_share;Xaah_RzWsmk]http://youtu.be/Xaah_RzWsmk[/video]


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## mccumcumber (Dec 18, 2011)

It started with two turn tables and a mic
Lightning strike, electricity
MC rip rhymes DJ cut the wax viciously
The combo, maliciously brought, ingenious and precise
Mad nice, soon to be subject to mad heists
Niggas talkin bout they bought mad ice, livin the mad sheist
In the battle of art versus trends
Poetry ends when money contends the recipe blends and becomes diluted
Polluted in fact, but check whos been recruited
Intact with rhymes for your mind
Everydays a struggle 'cause society frames you
But raise your head and walk with pride because i came to...


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## FilthyFizzle (Dec 18, 2011)

[video=youtube_share;QJHiuX3L1oU]http://youtu.be/QJHiuX3L1oU[/video]


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## themanwiththeplan (Dec 18, 2011)

im glad i got some support here down the stretch. in the beginning i thought this was gonna turn into a flame war where i get the worst of it. 

I just think as a whole biggie had the best of both words (freestyle/rhyming as well as songwriting...these days its hard to find both). 

dont get me wrong though. i got nothing but love for the likes of 2pac, big L, big daddy kane,etc. i just think as a whole biggie had the most potential. 

i never get tired of hearing his voice over a track. its pure genius when you hear it.


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## FilthyFizzle (Dec 18, 2011)

Biggie is classic. Can't say he's the best cuz everyone has their own way. 2Pac is the best and biggie is the best. In my opinion the pre-Relapse Marshall Mathers is equally talented


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## Vardonn (Dec 19, 2011)

2pac was, is, will ever be.


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## blazinkill504 (Dec 23, 2011)

i cant believe nobody has put tech n9ne up for debate

[video=youtube;WLT3QSiK9TM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLT3QSiK9TM&amp;feature=related[/video]
[video=youtube;2v5EoRBl2Mw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5EoRBl2Mw[/video]
[video=youtube;6Mndm3AQxrk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mndm3AQxrk&amp;ob=av2e[/video]

and biggie was nice but freddie gangsta gibbs got that heat

[video=youtube;vOkFZZFhwIE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOkFZZFhwIE[/video]
[video=youtube;XLI9kiwe7LE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLI9kiwe7LE[/video]
[video=youtube;ec7jJCVB7gw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec7jJCVB7gw[/video]


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## BA142 (Dec 23, 2011)

I wouldn't even have Tupac in my top 10. Biggie _maybe
_
Music is all opinion. I can definitely see why people have Biggie or Pac as their #1 but they are just aight to me personally

IMO Guru slaughters both of them lyrically 

Guru spoke the truth, Biggie lied about selling crack and Pac pretended to be a thug. Textbook definition of "studio gangsters." Don't get me wrong, I love em both but they were posers


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## blazinkill504 (Dec 24, 2011)

can you explain to me how pac was a pretend thug? dude got caught on video jumpin someone, got shot on more than one occasion, shot two off duty cops...i mean you dont get much more thuggish than that.


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## ...... (Dec 25, 2011)

2 pac was a ballerina lol.


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## ...... (Dec 25, 2011)

lol I cant stand fucking tech 9,immortal technique and all that shit.I only listen to local underground shit,nowhere is fucking with philly in underground rap.
immortal techniques local I think but I still dont like them lol.

Freddie gibbs is hot right now though,I been hearing him on a lot of shit with jeezy and hes been killing it.


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## ...... (Dec 25, 2011)

not immortal technique I meant to say jedi mind tricks,I dont know where immortal techniques from.


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## spliffendz (Dec 25, 2011)

Nas would rip tupac and biggie any day in a battle


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## mccumcumber (Dec 25, 2011)

Edit: You got any suggestions of some good Philly hip hop. All I know that's out of Philly is the Roots, and I fucking love them. But I know that's not even close to the underground. Enlighten me preez!

Nas is a fucking genius, no argument there.

2pac wasn't a gangster until he became famous. Then he decided that he should run his mouth. He went to private elementary school and when he moved out west he lived in Marin. Definitely a studio gangster, what made him different though was that he admitted he was a studio gangster and showed loved for the "niggas that laced his boots." Tupac's mom was a crackhead for a bit though, so he had that goin for him. Biggie said he sold crack, don't know how true that bullshit is. 

Guru spits straight slaughter when he hits the mic he is my favorite New York style rapper, but he's also a different type of rapper. He's "real," for a lack of a better word. Like Lupe was in Food and Liquor, and Eminem was before he got famous. Even though Eminem blows now, he could probably still rip apart any rapper in a battle.

If you're all about that gangster hype then Biggy could hit your top ten... maybe, I dunno, he kind of seems whack to me. Spittin about shit he never did and what not. Casual, ODB, Phesto, Tajai... really all of Hiero and Wutang > Biggy imo. Nickatina while he was still Dre Dog was ill as fuck too. And of course Brotha Lynch, that fool fuckin eats people! But the most gangsta rape your mom type shit I've ever heard was Mac Dre when he was angry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlyfSuTBtvA


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## 0calli (Jan 12, 2012)

i cant stand this fake ass bitter tell me he got talent your fooking crazy 

[video=youtube;RqScH2CfYTg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqScH2CfYTg[/video]


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## 0calli (Jan 12, 2012)

what you guys think of these supposed top 10s and worst ??

[video=youtube;adAvDkD_168]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adAvDkD_168&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]

[video=youtube;uLZc74d7MtE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLZc74d7MtE&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]

[video=youtube;EYwwq4AQOqs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYwwq4AQOqs&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## 0calli (Jan 12, 2012)

tu pac spoke the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!! real rap and wasnt all bling bling watch me bounce this bitches ass but she aint gettn no ring lol


...... said:


> 2 pac was a ballerina lol.


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## 0calli (Jan 12, 2012)

[video=youtube;ozgFWKFtGSQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozgFWKFtGSQ&amp;feature=related[/video]


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## ...... (Jan 18, 2012)

mccumcumber said:


> Edit: You got any suggestions of some good Philly hip hop. All I know that's out of Philly is the Roots, and I fucking love them. But I know that's not even close to the underground. Enlighten me preez!
> 
> Nas is a fucking genius, no argument there.
> 
> ...


Theres so many I'll try and put a list together for you a little later lol but check out this dvd series on youtube its called the wire we run the streets.A lot of them on there are nice.
Theres a lot of them on youtube.
[video=youtube;pwwWUV7WQGs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwwWUV7WQGs[/video]


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## ÒÒlegilizeitÒÒ (Jan 18, 2012)

alright biggie is clasic gangster rap, hes the original, i like crooked i hes been underground for awhile now. wiz khalifa i think is pretty good he doesnt try to be anything just hangs with his friends smokes and has fun i respect that. lil wayne is the fakest rapper but has great similes. i like immortal techniques thoughts and lyrics but i dont like the style
check out crooked i though he should become more popular.
[video=youtube;hG--Eku1KTg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG--Eku1KTg&amp;feature=BFa&amp;list=PL1994D0D21CEAAC7B&amp;lf=plp p_video&amp;shuffle=965967[/video]
[video=youtube;FChL75GMP50]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FChL75GMP50&amp;feature=BFa&amp;list=PL1994D0D21CE AAC7B&amp;lf=plpp_video&amp;shuffle=965967[/video]
[video=youtube;RTfcpZaCGRM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTfcpZaCGRM&amp;feature=BFa&amp;list=PL1994D0D21CE AAC7B&amp;lf=plpp_video&amp;shuffle=965967[/video]


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## InCognition (Jan 18, 2012)

You really have to just laugh at the people who try to force their opinion on others, that "rap is not music"... it's comparable to that of an extremely religious person pushing their beliefs on an atheist. Music comes in all shapes and forms. You don't have to play an instrument AND use your voice to make music. In fact you don't need to do either. All you need is a computer and you can still create amazing music.

Those who TELL others rap is not music, is just another way of saying "hey I'm ignorant".

I think this post might start a war with the self-righteous, "rap-is-not-music" folks... it's alright though because they will just further display their self-righteous ignorance.


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## skunkd0c (Jan 18, 2012)

im with the op , biggy ftw  

[video=youtube;6df0rha_Opw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6df0rha_Opw[/video]


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## 0calli (Jan 18, 2012)

cyphers speak there own truth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

one of the best cyphers ive heard 

[video=youtube;ac_YVQfWg_U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac_YVQfWg_U[/video]

[video=youtube;khGn8EdDgyI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khGn8EdDgyI[/video]

[video=youtube;fhx3yzmFnzk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhx3yzmFnzk&amp;feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;aX4S4doHDXs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX4S4doHDXs&amp;feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;OEvfto7_pMg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEvfto7_pMg[/video]


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## mak (Jan 18, 2012)

B.I.G does have some good songs,classics but still only a few.

i grew up listening to Pac and still play him.
still no one good enough to be compared.nuff said.

no need for a debate and 10 posts of paragraphs.

shout out to Tech N9ne to Cheah!
i listen to a lot of Tech N9ne,i dont place him in the same category as 2pac's music.

he has his own flow/style.even compared to other fast rappers.
Strange Music!!!


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## skunkd0c (Jan 19, 2012)

never understood the tpac thing .. not really being into rap in a big way myself so please do not be offended by my limited knowledge here 
where as biggy has the flow that even someone like myself can hear how good he was (not a rap fan)
tpac just shouts, to me he is no better than ja rule he kinda looks like that fag too with that nappie on his head .. why does he shout so much ??

[video=youtube;QWfbGGZE07M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWfbGGZE07M[/video]


[video=youtube;N-XegbM0HuQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-XegbM0HuQ[/video]


[video=youtube;CikybHxxOB0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CikybHxxOB0[/video]


[video=youtube;eC-i7XeXqg0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC-i7XeXqg0[/video]


[video=youtube;E3kyQcR8AbM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3kyQcR8AbM[/video]


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## 0calli (Jan 19, 2012)

Tu pac spoke the truth about life as it was before then and now ................yes biggie was lyrical but pac was an epic poet


skunkd0c said:


> never understood the tpac thing .. Not really being into rap in a big way myself so please do not be offended by my limited knowledge here
> where as biggy has the flow that even someone like myself can hear how good he was (not a rap fan)
> tpac just shouts, to me he is no better than ja rule he kinda looks like that fag too with that nappie on his head .. Why does he shout so much ??
> 
> ...


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## skunkd0c (Jan 19, 2012)

i have to say m8, im sure you are right and tpac means alot to many many people 
but not being from that life and those times myself i would not understand it, and i am not meant to its not aimed at me
so i see it or hear it in simple terms, all ghetto politics aside lol 

biggy just sounds good, i dont care about the message behind it 

peace


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## 0calli (Jan 19, 2012)

yes bigge is lyrical artisr no doubt hands down but there are many diffrent forms and styles of rap like battle rappers...eminem........lyrical rappers..........biggie , nas...........harmony rappers bone thugs etc etc


skunkd0c said:


> i have to say m8, im sure you are right and tpac means alot to many many people
> but not being from that life and those times myself i would not understand it, and i am not meant to its not aimed at me
> so i see it or hear it in simple terms, all ghetto politics aside lol
> 
> ...


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## mak (Jan 19, 2012)

theres no shouting here brah,thats eminem LMAO!

DEAR MAMA!

[video=youtube;Mb1ZvUDvLDY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb1ZvUDvLDY&amp;ob=av2e[/video]

[video=youtube;HfXwmDGJAB8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXwmDGJAB8&amp;feature=related[/video]


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## mak (Jan 19, 2012)

Also shout out to Shyne Poe even though hes on some other shit right now since he got out of his years long sentence..fuck P-diddy seriously...

also ja rule tries to be like 2pac lmao


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## 0calli (Jan 19, 2012)

puff bitch lol hahahaha always polluting his artist videos and calling groups the band when they cant even play a guitar lol


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## Logges (Feb 14, 2012)

themanwiththeplan said:


> Thats a pretty bold statement I know but up to this point I wouldn't feel good putting anyone above him. Im sure ill catch crap for saying that but its so true and no one could possibly put a song/video/clip up to make me change my mind.
> 
> Dude only dropped 2 albums and has more talent than anyone. yes anyone. 2pac (yes i said it)...lil wayne (hahaha easily) or any other mickey mouse "pay me my millions but i dont talk about shit" ass rapper out there.
> 
> ...



absolutely true. he had real talent.


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## ThatGuy113 (Feb 15, 2012)

0calli said:


> puff bitch lol hahahaha always polluting his artist videos and calling groups the band when they cant even play a guitar lol


I was going to say he thinks Tupac yells a lot? what about puffy jumping all around in the video and on the album screaming yeah! and uh! and bad boy for life etc... lol


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## BA142 (Feb 15, 2012)

nah dude Canibus from 96-2003 was the most lyrically ill MC to ever grace this earth. He fell off hard after 03 and because he picks the shittiest beats to ever exist to rap over but....lyrically nobody can fuck with him in his prime

[video=youtube;kylhotL25qg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kylhotL25qg[/video]


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## ThatGuy113 (Feb 15, 2012)

Gotta say LL cool J as weak as you may think he sounds his diss against Canibus was the best hes ever done. 
[video=youtube;cBYJ0QhIPEw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBYJ0QhIPEw[/video]


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## themanwiththeplan (Feb 15, 2012)

canibus was lyrical as sh*t. i just couldn't stand his tracks though cuz of his choice of music. (ie beats). 

Dont get me wrong guys...im not sayin biggie is the be all/end all of rap i just think for what he did in the short amount of time he had on this earth it was pretty spectacular. i cant think of another artist who had that short of a career that produced at such a level. especially with albums that you can pretty much listen to all the way through. imo the biggest difference between a "good" rapper and a "great" one is that "good" ones have SOME good tracks on their album and great ones you can put it in...press play and not touch anything till its over. thats rare these days for sure. i cant name many artists or albums i can play all the way through that have been released in the last 10 years or so. 

now its the era of the singles unfortunately. 

im still waiting on the next great one that can freestyle and rap strictly for the art of it AND make good songs/records. these days its strictly one way or the other and its sad. 

Dont get me wrong though...i love and listen to other rappers of the same era (PAC, big l, etc). these days all my fav rappers are local or underground.


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## mccumcumber (Feb 15, 2012)

I think hip hop also has a lot to do with where you're from. It's people speaking about the situation going on around them, and if it doesn't apply to you... then you probably won't like the music. I personally cannot listen to a whole BIG album all the way through, but if you throw on an album by DEL or PUTS then I'll probably listen to that album in its entirety.


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## VER D (Feb 15, 2012)

bigge smalls = everyone who started rapping after he dropped ready to die ill give you that


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## themanwiththeplan (Feb 16, 2012)

VER D said:


> bigge smalls = everyone who started rapping after he dropped ready to die ill give you that


this is probably more accurate than my original statement to be honest. soon as his era died (90s rap) it all went to hell fast. to me mainstream rap is the WORST these days. I remember a time when i liked most of the rap that was mainstream. now i seem to only listen to underground stuff (for the most part). I cant get into guys like 50 cent, lil wayne, gucci, waka, etc. this current style seems watered down and i swear lil wayne is to rap what half of the 90s teen "pop stars" were...someone who the labels marketed as an "image" or "brand" rather than a good music recording artist/songwriter. 

I guarantee you there are mainstream rappers TODAY who don't write their own lines/songs. its a fact and with some genres i can see that happening (ie. teen pop stars etc) but i can't accept that when its rap which is supposed to come from you. thats what makes rap so amazing to me...is that someone can spit out the facts of life of the top of their head while simultaneously thinking of the next line AND making it all fit together in a way that pleases your ears. If you're using other ppl's ideas then what are you? 

Idk excuse my rant but i could knock current mainstream rap forever. People often are amazed that i can't name even one single song by some of today's biggest rappers but its because i could listen to the samples of their albums on amazon.com or whatever and by the time ive heard 30secs of each song i can already dismiss them as being good.

when it comes to rap it doesn't take more than a few bars to know if you're feeling it at all. 

my other beef is that today's mainstream rappers do WAYYY too many features to the point that sometimes they seem like a guest artist on their own record/mixtape. dont get me wrong some of my fav songs ever were features but now its ridiculous. in the past they still did collabs but you know who's album u were buying. now you listen to 15 tracks from one artist but they only spit 1 verse on each track! 

idk if today's rappers are just lazy or seriously have no talent but it needs to change. of course i think ive been spoiled by greatness of the past and underground and now nothing can come close to comparing. hopefully in the next few years im thinking a new group of mainstream artists is better than this current group. if whats next to come is worse then im just gonna either get stuck in the past era or find another genre of music to listen to. lol


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## bud nugbong (May 8, 2012)

[video=youtube_share;gccimMIyu6s]http://youtu.be/gccimMIyu6s[/video]


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## 1Shot1Kill (May 9, 2012)

rap isn't even rap anymore. Just a bunch of socialist propaganda


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## iNVESTIGATE (May 10, 2012)

Why the fuck is sandbagger and all these DOUCHEBAG rap haters even talking on this thread?? Go Fuck off why dont ya! LOL

Usually people i see posting in music threads have the decency and common respect for different music styles. not some little fucking small close minded dicks typing nonsense about an interpretive/preferential art medium. Music.

There's fuckloads of different styles of msuic out there. dont like it, dont fucking listen to it. and certainly do not go to where people talk about something you hate in order to try and convince them they're stupid you fucking worthless asshat. 


ANY-fucking-WAYS..


B.I.G. is dope and an essential artist for aspiring hip-hop appreciators and producers. A Tribe Called Quest, Bus Driver, The Outsidaz, J-Dilla, The Pharcyde, & Big L. Thats all i can think of right now.. but i see all these guys as the innovators and the gods of rap/hiphop. So i dont know if id put any of them above each other. They all influenced and still influence generations of interested people like writers, anthropologists, musicians, and slam poets.


The rap classic's will always have a place in my heart. But i cant go on w/out mentioning some of the new groups out there who are barely heard of but still have so much influence and respect for the greats. PLus, they have great beats!

Immortal Technique
Diabolic

_GDP
Pistol
Shape
Vida Killz_

http://slangcorp.com/

the four names in Italics are from the Slangcorp crew.


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## iNVESTIGATE (May 10, 2012)

InCognition said:


> You really have to just laugh at the people who try to force their opinion on others, that "rap is not music"... it's comparable to that of an extremely religious person pushing their beliefs on an atheist. Music comes in all shapes and forms. You don't have to play an instrument AND use your voice to make music. In fact you don't need to do either. All you need is a computer and you can still create amazing music.
> 
> Those who TELL others rap is not music, is just another way of saying "hey I'm ignorant".
> 
> I think this post might start a war with the self-righteous, "rap-is-not-music" folks... it's alright though because they will just further display their self-righteous ignorance.



lol, YEYEUH! Gotta love the haters.


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## Akira Chan (May 10, 2012)

Biggie + Sinatra. Google it and enjoy


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## Systehm (May 10, 2012)

Never got why people think mainstream rappers like Biggie and Pac are the GOAT. There are plenty of underground rappers that are lyrically superior, speak about real shit more, and are "harder" than both of them, which matters to some people. Not saying that makes a rapper better than either Pac or Biggie, just saying those are always points that Biggie or Pac elitists bring up in a debate. Just because Pac and Biggie were big and good doesn't mean they were the best, sure they were great but to say they were the GOAT and always will be is madness. There are some many types of rappers in the game right now, in my mind two of the main groups are basically Political rap & "Real" hard rap. Political rap being people like Diabolic, Beast 1333, Tech n9ne, Prozak, ect. Both of which have rappers that are killing the game. When people say the rap game is dead they just need to look the fuck around, back in the day not just anyone could make a well produced Music video, now everyone has a computer and can show their skills. I think when people say that the game is dead they are looking at the mainstream environment, like MMG and Young Money fag bullshit. You can't argue that, mainstream rap is dead right now, but underground thrives motherfuckers! Biggie and Pac will always be legends, no matter what, but don't go saying that they will always be the GOAT, because I won't be believing you aha.


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## themanwiththeplan (May 12, 2012)

Systehm said:


> Never got why people think mainstream rappers like Biggie and Pac are the GOAT. There are plenty of underground rappers that are lyrically superior, speak about real shit more, and are "harder" than both of them, which matters to some people. Not saying that makes a rapper better than either Pac or Biggie, just saying those are always points that Biggie or Pac elitists bring up in a debate. Just because Pac and Biggie were big and good doesn't mean they were the best, sure they were great but to say they were the GOAT and always will be is madness. There are some many types of rappers in the game right now, in my mind two of the main groups are basically Political rap & "Real" hard rap. Political rap being people like Diabolic, Beast 1333, Tech n9ne, Prozak, ect. Both of which have rappers that are killing the game. When people say the rap game is dead they just need to look the fuck around, back in the day not just anyone could make a well produced Music video, now everyone has a computer and can show their skills. I think when people say that the game is dead they are looking at the mainstream environment, like MMG and Young Money fag bullshit. You can't argue that, mainstream rap is dead right now, but underground thrives motherfuckers! Biggie and Pac will always be legends, no matter what, but don't go saying that they will always be the GOAT, because I won't be believing you aha.


you make some good points.

i still say big and pac will be remembered as the GOAT even 20 years from now. 

who today is really considered a "GOAT"? ppl like to throw nas, jay-z, lil wayne etc in the conversation but 1st off lil wayne probably will be remembered as a GOAT BUT i think thats more from the casual rap fans (the mainstream fanboys)

nas is great. he really will be remembered as a GOAT from true fans...mainstream has him pushed to the side...jay-z had good albums when he first came out (especially the first couple albums) but these days he's more like lil wayne than the jay-z i remember growing up.

today rap does suck balls. i wont lie. almost all the rappers i listen to are either underground, semi-underground/regionally famous or mainstream from back in the day (ie. 2pac, biggie, old jay-z, etc)

i dont really like any current mainstream artists...maybe a few but there aren't many. the closest i get to mainstream these days is probably e-40 (but i listened to him before national fame) and guys like curren$y but idk how "mainstream" you'd consider him as i really don't know how popular he is throughout the country or anything.

whats sad is though even when i search sites like datpiff for new music (most of it underground with some mainstream mixed in) even most of the underground these days is crap. 

i find very few good artists these days. 


whats happening to rap (or what already has) is what happened to other forms of music in the past...ie. heavy metal in the 80's was "good" and "cool" to start but then after everyone tried to cash in out it it became a watered down piece of crap genre with too many gimmick artists...then nirvana came along and killed em off heading into the 90s....

remember the pop-punk phenomenon in the mid 90s? remember guys like blink 182 and green day ruled the airwaves then ****** like simple plan and good charlotte came along and put that genre into the ground too.

same is happening to rap now. biggie, pac, big l, nas, old school jay z, snoop dogg, ruled the mainstream and then a bunch of jerkoffs tried to cash in on it and now we got lil wayne doing songs that aren't even rap. we got guys w/ gimmicks like soulja boy and drake (cant stand dudes voice) and gucci mane who just finds new ways to say "gucci" and "burr" shut the fuk up. i mean seriously. its all about "can i sell a million downloads on itunes w/ this track?" 

i liked it that rappers of the past would put out good albums that you could listen to almost all the way from start to end and these days you might as well not buy the album because only 2-3 songs will be any good. 

i haven't paid for a CD or MP3 album in MANY MANY MANY years. probably a decade. some will say im evil but i refuse to give money to this mainstream dumbasses that are all about a dollar and not so much about the music.

dont get me wrong...ill pay for the underground and local artists...but i refuse to give a dollar to those mainstream money hungry talentless losers. period. 

btw this post wasnt directed at u systehm


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## Systehm (May 13, 2012)

Only people who know nothing about rap can consider Lil Wayne or Jay Z GOAT, let alone rappers. You are right, no one alive today can be considered the GOAT by many people. Underground will always live, whether mainstream rap completely dies off someday or not. I kind of wonder what the next new genre of music to be in the mainstream scene will be. Rap may die someday in the mainstream, which honestly I don't really care if it does or not, as long as underground rappers will always thrive in their own environments. Because the mainstream scene really will kill a rapper and make him do things he wouldn't have before in music for that fatter check.


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