# Double Harvest



## manifest (Sep 18, 2013)

I finally took the move to only read the experts ideas by utilizing the search function. Through this I found that homeboy Uncle Ben double harvests-meaning he first harvests the top colas and THEN places the plant under the light to allow light to be captured to the lower buds. Does anyone else have any ideas, advice and experience on this?


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## xGrimace (Sep 18, 2013)

If your working with CFLs maybe. Not many people do this though, some think its a waste.


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## lilroach (Sep 18, 2013)

I don't know much about double harvesting, but I can tell you that since I've followed Uncle Ben's advice, my yield has gone from one ounce per plant to three ounces per plant.

Uncle Ben takes a ton of hits on here, often it's his lack of social graces that makes people go after him....but if you read his techniques and stay away from the daily banter, you'll do well. His focus on leaf health is key if you ask me. I barely pull any leaves from my plants now and I can see a big difference in the overall health of my plants.


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## qwizoking (Sep 18, 2013)

That's not why people bash Ben...anyway I grow sativas, if I "double harvest", the plant in response will mess up the bud to leaf ratio horribly in attempt to gain foliage and keep levels of transpiration constant. I advise against this method. Get side lighting....


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## dr.tree (Sep 19, 2013)

By cutting the tops and given the lowers a week or two I get about 15-20% more + makes lowers quality on par with the tops.


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## superjet (Sep 19, 2013)

dr.tree said:


> By cutting the tops and given the lowers a week or two I get about 15-20% more + makes lowers quality on par with the tops.


that's right, uncle ben knows his shit. I double harvest too. I grow in coco maintaining semi low runoff and only flush for a week before the first chop (top 2/3rds) and then feed for 1 more week (twice) and then another week just water and chop the rest by 2 weeks. you would be surprised what you can get in 2 weeks with a couple feeds and co2, big difference in yield, at least for me and the strain i'm using.


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## TechnicalToker (Sep 23, 2013)

Just completed. 50-60% response in size in a week and half after initial harvest.


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## dr.tree (Sep 24, 2013)

Ya people who harvest the the whole plan at since are losing a lot


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## nova1992 (Oct 2, 2013)

if you let your leaves grow and dont pluck them then i would imagine double harvesting would be kinda needed because all those leaves are blocking light from bud sites and if you cut everything that is ready and get light to the covered buds then i can totally see you benefiting from it.
dont know why people are against it lol..


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## Nizza (Oct 2, 2013)

double harvesting is great, I used the technique this summer because one plant I had was just too fat, and started to get a few bud rot spots. I cut out the spots, cut off the big top buds, and left the bottom of the plant for two extra weeks, and those got to fatten up and got some really nice weather!

Also, the plant didn't have any wierd response to this , just kept ripening and stuff, and the bottom half of the plant showed purple color , i think due to the cold nights that it got to make it to.


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## skunkd0c (Oct 2, 2013)

double harvesting would only be necessary if much of the lower plant grew in shade to begin with 
if the right training methods are employed and or bottom lighting is used it would never be necessary

a true double harvest, is when you rejuvenate (reveg) the plant, and get a second full harvest even a third lol


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## dr.tree (Oct 3, 2013)

I've tried a lot of different ways, this is just what's working good for me.


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## plaguedog (Nov 1, 2013)

nova1992 said:


> if you let your leaves grow and dont pluck them then i would imagine double harvesting would be kinda needed because all those leaves are blocking light from bud sites and if you cut everything that is ready and get light to the covered buds then i can totally see you benefiting from it.
> dont know why people are against it lol..


It's been proven by multiple studies that a full sun plant like MJ lets almost 85% of light pass through. They don;t block anything and people are against pulling off the leaves because they are what fuels bud production.

I've tried pruning, I've tried defoliation. They are a bunch of bunk. The best yields I ever get is because I keep my plants healthy and fully fucking leaved the whole way through.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 1, 2013)

manifest said:


> I finally took the move to only read the experts ideas by utilizing the search function. Through this I found that homeboy Uncle Ben double harvests-meaning he first harvests the top colas and THEN places the plant under the light to allow light to be captured to the lower buds.


Pretty much got the gist down but it's not exposure to buds that produces yo stuff, it's exposure to lower leaves and with all the finger pluckin' and bloom food abuse goin' on around these here parts, this homey understands most can't "pull" this tweak off.  I double harvest indoors or out, doesn't matter. It's just common sense to pull the fruit when it's at its premium whether it be an apple, avocado, key lime, or cannabis. It adds up as you've probably seen in my pix of second harvests.

Also, Mel Frank presented lab studies reflecting that THC content can be at higher levels at the bottom than "da big colas" at the top contrary to popular forum thought.

In the following photo, the point where I cut is exactly where the transition from a fat cola to single nuggets occurred.



Good luck


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 1, 2013)

You mean butchering your plants by pulling off the very unit that produces bud. That makes a lot of sense. 



skunkd0c said:


> double harvesting would only be necessary if much of the lower plant grew in shade to begin with
> if the right training methods are employed and or bottom lighting is used it would never be necessary


Wrong. It's not an issue of "necessary". It's an issue of finessing your garden and using botanical common sense.

Since your plants have no lower leaves left upon harvest, I'd expect this kind of spin and sideways anger out of you. Sour grapes?

UB


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## beuffer420 (Nov 1, 2013)

What's funny is before I came here on this forum I found defoliation out the hard way. Or I guess you could say just from observation. I'm telling you guys right now leave the leafs on your plant it thank you with yield.


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## JMD (Nov 6, 2013)

I haven't tried double harvest before, but due to my limited growing space I think it might work for me. However, there's one thing that doesn't fit.. what about flushing the plant?
Usually I would feed the plant nothing but water for the last week before harvesting it.

Any thoughts on this?


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## qwizoking (Nov 6, 2013)

Seriously?
No.....


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## flippinkeysmakinGs (Nov 6, 2013)

I just "strip" off all lower branches and the first 2-5 buds per branch and its all chunky! no need to wait on pop corn, rip that shit off early (day 10-17) flower and it will all go to the top! its need if you in CAlI because clubs wont ever look if they see popcorn


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## plaguedog (Nov 6, 2013)

flippinkeysmakinGs said:


> I just "strip" off all lower branches and the first 2-5 buds per branch and its all chunky! no need to wait on pop corn, rip that shit off early (day 10-17) flower and it will all go to the top! its need if you in CAlI because clubs wont ever look if they see popcorn


Cali, Vermont?


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 7, 2013)

flippinkeysmakinGs said:


> I just "strip" off all lower branches and the first 2-5 buds per branch and its all chunky! no need to wait on pop corn, rip that shit off early (day 10-17) flower and it will all go to the top! its need if you in CAlI because clubs wont ever look if they see popcorn


If it "goes all to the top" it's because someone did something based on feelings rather than understanding plant processes and the life cycle of cannabis. It has to do with apical dominance, hormonal responses.

Don't mix up marketing and sales with botany - apples and oranges.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 7, 2013)

JMD said:


> I haven't tried double harvest before, but due to my limited growing space I think it might work for me. However, there's one thing that doesn't fit.. what about flushing the plant?
> Usually I would feed the plant nothing but water for the last week before harvesting it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


Yeah, don't flush. It's another bullshit drill, a misguided forum paradigm, parroted by each new crop of newbs.

I bet you also use bloom foods?


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## GrowersWarehouse (Nov 7, 2013)

Whenever I have tried doing that it stresses the plant and the lower buds never reach their full potential. I recommend just waiting until the plant finishes ripening.


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## GrowersWarehouse (Nov 7, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Yeah, don't flush. It's another bullshit drill, a misguided forum paradigm, parroted by each new crop of newbs.
> 
> I bet you also use bloom foods?



bloom foods? As in Potassium and Phosphate?


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## GrowersWarehouse (Nov 7, 2013)

I've been farming over 15 years I've tried this technique and when I have the lower buds never reach their full potential.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 7, 2013)

GrowersWarehouse said:


> bloom foods? As in Potassium and Phosphate?


Yes. Bloom foods will actually work against you and in the favor of the seller.


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## TechnicalToker (Nov 11, 2013)

I would really like you to expand on the bloom nutes Uncle Ben. I have just flipped, and on recommendation, I am using grow nutes and MH lamp until the strech is over. The I have flowering nutes with a booster that I am supposed to add at week 5 of flowering. What am I supposed to drop and what am I supposed to feed?

Thank you


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 11, 2013)

TechnicalToker said:


> I would really like you to expand on the bloom nutes Uncle Ben. I have just flipped, and on recommendation, I am using grow nutes and MH lamp until the strech is over. The I have flowering nutes with a booster that I am supposed to add at week 5 of flowering. What am I supposed to drop and what am I supposed to feed?
> 
> Thank you


You're supposed to keep the leaves happy.


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## lilroach (Nov 12, 2013)

I have found that the bloom-foods that are top-heavy in Phosphorus and lacking in Nitrogen are counter-productive. I went with high phosphorus and no nitrogen a few grows ago....all of a sudden the plants stopped smelling....as soon as I re-introduced N to my plants the amazing bud-smell returned. I use a NPK of 2-3-2 on a daily feeding (small dosages) and the plants seem happy.


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## skunkd0c (Nov 14, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> You mean butchering your plants by pulling off the very unit that produces bud. That makes a lot of sense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This above comment from you is absolute nonsense

If you are unable to successfully produce solid cola on lower branches (strain permitting) within one single harvest period your technique is at fault.

Requiring two separate harvests on a single plant/crop is conclusive evidence that the crop grew with light penetration problems.

A strain that would take 8-9 weeks may take a further 3-4 weeks to finish off lower immature buds
this would take the total grow time of a 8-9 weeks strain upto a possible of 13 weeks, this is neither time efficient or desirable. 

if penetration issues are a problem for you, and you are unsuccessful at producing a plant that is completely mature on lower branches 
employing pruning techniques / training and or lower lighting , or even growing smaller plants would be the logical remedy to this problem 

by the time you are finishing off the lower branches of your first crop i have already started the next which would of entered flowering 

why do you want folk to waste electricity, do you own shares in a power company ? 

peace


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 14, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> ....Requiring two separate harvests on a single plant/crop is conclusive evidence that the crop grew with light penetration problems.


It doesn't conclude shit and you're beginning to sound like a noob that blindly feels that buds require light. I thought I made myself clear, sheesh. My double harvest technique is not a requirement just like anything else around here (i.e. topping for 4 main colas). It's just another way I do business, and it works damn well IF you don't do the RIU fuckup drill by ruining your leaves with idiot defoliation drills and using bloom foods.



> if penetration issues are a problem for you, and you are unsuccessful at producing a plant that is completely mature on lower branches employing pruning techniques / training and or lower lighting , or even growing smaller plants would be the logical remedy to this problem


Speaking of ridiculous statements, my indoor plants are crammed into each other. Branches of one grow into the other. I ALWAYS have heavy production at the lower levels compared to most. I'm not doing the skunkdoc rope-a-dope lollipopped one foot tall plants. I do SOB, large tall plants. Witness photos amongst many others I've shown a hundred times here - 









> A strain that would take 8-9 weeks may take a further 3-4 weeks to finish off lower immature buds


You're speaking out of turn because you've never tried it, not that I care if you do. It takes about another 2 weeks to get to where I want to go.

You obviously do not understand concepts of apical dominance or have a broad knowledge base of plant materials..... nor are you capable of acknowledging the fact that NO crop will come in consistently ripe with a short window of time and that includes everything I know of - apples, peaches, grapes, tomatoes, peppers, flowering annuals. I think you're here just to start a fight....am happy to oblige ya. 

And since cannabis is nothing more than a flowering annual, a foliage plant, the fact that ripeness occurs over time includes cannabis. Cannabanoids (including THC) is produced over a month or so and accordingly like fruit the constituents of the cannabanoid mix, development and profile are totally different at week 3 versus week 9, as is bud development and mass. Cannabanoids are in a constant state of development and "degradation" from say..... week 3 to harvest.

UB


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## skunkd0c (Nov 14, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> It doesn't conclude shit. Skunk, I thought I made myself clear, sheesh. It's not a requirement just like anything else is (i.e. topping for 4 main colas). It's just another way I do business, and it works damn well IF you don't do the RIU fuckup drill by ruining your leaves.
> 
> Speaking of ridiculous statements, my indoor plants are crammed into each other. Branches of one grow into the other. I ALWAYS have heavy production at the lower levels compared to most. I'm not doing the skunkdoc rope-a-dope lollipopped one foot tall plants. I do SOB. Witness photos amongst many others I've shown a hundred times here -
> 
> ...


I have seen those pictures before, you post them all the time as they are the only pictures you seem to have
i have told you in various threads i am not impressed 

how would you know what i have and have not done ? 
this is ignorant speculation form you 

can you please explain why your lower buds are not developing and require "about" another 2 weeks to finish off ?
please address the question 

i remember reading recently that you grow fruit trees and that you have not grown cannabis for security reasons for a number of years 

shame


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## lilroach (Nov 14, 2013)

Ah....the war continues to wage between skunkdoc and uncle ben.....when will it end?

I can only comment about light getting down to the lower leaves and branches. Due to not scheduling things right, I ended up with 11 plants in my 5x7 flower room. These were not small plants by any stretch of the imagination. I have about 1/2 that are at least 32" tall and a 52" to boot. These plants are stuffed in there. I was very worried about light penetration getting to my lower branches.

This is a plant I just harvested that endured being stuffed against the wall of my flower room. As you can see, I'm not a fan of defoliating:







What blew me away was when I got down to the stump...there were buds and branches that I know haven't seen direct light in months.







While they were not either big or impressive, they had somehow survived not getting any direct lighting.

The big and impressive was just above these little suckers (AKA the rest of the plant). Personally....I defoliate the day of the harvest.







Let's count the number of yellow leaves that didn't get shit for light exposure......hummmm....one? I could show you pictures of the other 10 plants in the flower room and while they are all jammed together....have no yellow leaves.

My point is that Uncle Ben is correct when he talks about how a plant processes light energy.


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## qwizoking (Nov 14, 2013)

Double harvesting has always been detrimental to my landrace sativas...will never do it again

Leaves that don't get light will be deemed unworthy by the plant and yellow..if it takes more energy to keep it alive than it produces...I see quite a few down In there

But its also impossible to keep fan leaves green on a 6month sativa..its not how it naturally grows


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## lilroach (Nov 14, 2013)

qwizoking said:


> Double harvesting has always been detrimental to my landrace sativas...will never do it again
> 
> Leaves that don't get light will be deemed unworthy by the plant and yellow..if it takes more energy to keep it alive than it produces...I see quite a few down In there
> 
> But its also impossible to keep fan leaves green on a 6month sativa..its not how it naturally grows



If what you say is true...can you point out where this is evident on this plant? I can post numerous other plants that show no yellowing of leaves due to lack of light specifically on those leaves.

Edit: This plant is 90% sativa dom (dinafem's original amnesia).


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## lilroach (Nov 14, 2013)

ah.....I see what you're pointing out...the dead leaves in the container. I can tell you that a good share of those where inadvertently yanked during feeding. One of the downsides of leaving all the leaves on is that the water container bashes the lower leaves pretty good...that and my clumsy-ass hand pulling on them when lifting the plant from here-to-there.

If what you're saying is true....how is it that there's buds growing on the stump....they should have said "good-bye" a long time ago.

If what you're saying is true...I should have more dead leaves on my flower-room floor. Sure, I get one or two, but compared to the number that are not getting direct light, I should have to sweep the floor often...which I don't.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 14, 2013)

lilroach said:


> If what you say is true...can you point out where this is evident on this plant? I can post numerous other plants that show no yellowing of leaves due to lack of light specifically on those leaves.
> 
> Edit: This plant is 90% sativa dom (dinafem's original amnesia).


Pearls before swine. Like me, you gave evidence, they present spin.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 14, 2013)

qwizoking said:


> Double harvesting has always been detrimental to my landrace sativas...will never do it again


Last year I double harvested a couple of 7' tall TFD O. Haze sativas grown outdoors and it worked out fine, as usual. What in the hell are you talking about? Or perhaps I should ask, "how did you screw that one up?" 

Indica versus sativa, it's all the same if you know what you're doing.

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 14, 2013)

lilroach said:


> What blew me away was when I got down to the stump...there were buds and branches that I know haven't seen direct light in months.









Yeppers....


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## qwizoking (Nov 14, 2013)

Its not at all.. a true sativa looses its fan leaves around week 16..new fan leaves develop at the base of budsites those will stay green till harvest.. this is why they were called "gold" because true sativas yellow naturally.....I've literally never grown an indica. I only grow landrace sativas


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 14, 2013)

My sativas do not lose too many fan leaves and if they do it's because of stress from mama nature - constant sand blasting winds or storms. If yours do, recommend you get back to the basics. 

"Gold" refers to the bud color from the pistils. Mostly hype used as a marketing gimmick. "Panama Red" of the 60's comes to mind.

Here's a shot of one of my O. Haze at the mid to bottom area in November 2012 shortly before harvesting. Not only does it still have a shitload of fan leaves, but it carried them since March thru constant gusty winds, storms...all kinds of challenges.





Even the post harvest stump has a few small leaves left on it. 



Last one doesn't belong here. Don't know what happened with the edit, it's not what I wanted. Whatever, shows a typical cola bent over from the weight.


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## RockyMtnMan (Nov 14, 2013)

lilroach said:


> Ah....the war continues to wage between skunkdoc and uncle ben.....when will it end?
> 
> I can only comment about light getting down to the lower leaves and branches. Due to not scheduling things right, I ended up with 11 plants in my 5x7 flower room. These were not small plants by any stretch of the imagination. I have about 1/2 that are at least 32" tall and a 52" to boot. These plants are stuffed in there. I was very worried about light penetration getting to my lower branches.
> 
> ...


Pretty awesome yield there, Lilroach. That light mover seems to be serving you well. 
Did you apply a lot of side lighting? 
You have far surpassed me in yield my friend. 
The Jack's classic is working great huh?
Great job and great visual representation of green leaves to the finish.


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## lilroach (Nov 15, 2013)

RockyMtnMan said:


> Pretty awesome yield there, Lilroach. That light mover seems to be serving you well.
> Did you apply a lot of side lighting?
> You have far surpassed me in yield my friend.
> The Jack's classic is working great huh?
> Great job and great visual representation of green leaves to the finish.


Rockymtnman.....If it were not for you and UB giving me solid advice, I'd still be growing 1 ounce plants. I have been lucky to have two amazing growers take the time to set me straight on how to grow weed.

I bought the tub of Jack's in June and have been feeding my plants daily, and I still have about a third of a tub left....not bad for $10. I can't imagine the hyped pot-specific nutrients giving me a better plant....and it would have cost me $100's more.

The light-mover has allowed me to jam the 11 plants in my grow room. Without it, I suspect that I would be having troubles right now with that many plants in a small space. I do have a few CFL's going....not so much to side-light as it's my intention to keep lights on the plants when the mover is on the other side of the rail. My concern has been that the light-mover may lengthen flower-times due to the variation of light caused by the light being away from the plants as much as being overhead. I didn't have the CFL's going during the summer and the plants really didn't seem to notice the difference.

As far as surpassing you in yield....maybe on this plant, but you certainly are way ahead of me overall. I still have much to learn from both you and UB.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 15, 2013)

lilroach said:


> Rockymtnman.....If it were not for you and UB giving me solid advice, I'd still be growing 1 ounce plants. I have been lucky to have two amazing growers take the time to set me straight on how to grow weed.


Thanks. That basic approach "we" use can be applied to other crops. For me, it was already having gardening experience under my belt with stuff like veggies, fruit trees, orchids that made it easy for me to grow this simple weed. Only thing I had to get was stuff like sexing using pre-flower indicators, the 12/12 flipping part, re-vegging and nute issues which Mel Frank's book explained. Best damn buy I made way back when. 



> I bought the tub of Jack's in June and have been feeding my plants daily, and I still have about a third of a tub left....not bad for $10. I can't imagine the hyped pot-specific nutrients giving me a better plant....and it would have cost me $100's more.


That really is an awesome plant. You have ME beat, hah! Hard to beat the quality of Jack's and Dyna-Gro. Jack's sure has increased in price since the 70's, but what else is new? Have you priced groceries lately, especially produce? Yikes!

Speaking of plant foods, I don't know if you could get away with it regarding cannabis but here's a link for tissue analysis so you know exactly where you've been, which then suggests where you need to go. $26/test. Haven't tried them yet but know a commercial grower that uses their service on every variety of fruit he has. http://www.allabs.com/

Happy gardening!


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## YosemiteSam78 (Nov 15, 2013)

Uncle Ben and lilroach have me convinced. I was wondering what to do with a very bushy sativa dom. hybrid, and now I am def. going to leave the leafs on there and train them in my scrog (I have limited overhead space). Def. going to harvest twice if necessary. Thx guys.


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## midnitetoak (Nov 15, 2013)

JMD said:


> I haven't tried double harvest before, but due to my limited growing space I think it might work for me. However, there's one thing that doesn't fit.. what about flushing the plant?
> Usually I would feed the plant nothing but water for the last week before harvesting it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


Yes I do the same thing but when you harvest in sections like I do flushing to straight water(0 ppm) starves them. I usually have my nutes diluted to under 300 ppms or even lower before harvest & never notice any chemical taste from my well cured bud. Limited space grows can benefit from this by allowing the smaller popcorn bud to mature & expand. I'm thinking of switching back to 24 hrs of light for 2 weeks after taking the top colas this time. My current grow has been revegged 3 times so far & is in early flower stage for the 3rd time right now...6 more weeks to go


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## midnitetoak (Nov 15, 2013)

I have a sat dom right now that has been revegged 3 times.. But that explains why the leaves yellow & die at the end of flower cycle. It's not a pure sativa though I think my Cotton Candy strain is like 70/30


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## midnitetoak (Nov 15, 2013)

One issue with revegging that I did not consider before I tried it is mold issues. Be sure to take off all the buds no matter how small at final harvest because they will grow much bigger during veg & attract mold to the sugar leaves..the sticky plant resins seem to be a breeding ground for mold. I trimmed mine off & made BHO but if left on the plants might have caused the mold to spread to new bud growth.


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## dr.tomb (Nov 16, 2013)

Need some input on a reveg ive been doing. I started revegging about 27 days ago on the old girls and I have a few others (you can see my grow journal) that I feel are ready to flip. on of the girls has really taken off and has tons of regrowth, however my Nirvana Bubblelicious is a little slow on the hop. its just started to pop normal serrated leaves, how long do you guys think before I can flip the switch to 12/12.


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## dr.tomb (Nov 17, 2013)

Anyone have an answer?


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 17, 2013)

No answers, just guesses. When the plant is ready, you'll know.


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