# Triacontinol during flowering, am I making a mistake?



## Upwards (Sep 10, 2016)

In case it matters, outdoor grow, 5 gal buckets, southern new england, Pinewarp seeds from BCbuds, roughly 2nd-3rd week of flowering. Some seem to be a little behind, possibly due to light pollution (or just genetic variance), I expect the furthest along will take another 3 weeks, the slowest maybe 5. My estimates may be off, pics available if its important, just ask.

Loving this alfalfa tea I've been using for the last 2 months, has really done great things for both my girls and my vegetable garden. So I start learning more, searching forums, and reading stuff written by people who know way more chemistry and botany science than I do. And, not surprisingly, I start overthinking and worrying about what someone said might be about to happen.

To keep it brief: Alfalfa tea naturally contains Triacontinol, which is a hormone ... maybe ... that stimulates growth. Odds are, here in the advanced section, yall know this. 

Twice on another forum, someone mentioned that this stuff would somehow inhibit the production of terpenes and thus lower overall potency if it is fed to the plant "late in flowering". I'm looking for either a solid debunking of that assertion, or confirmation of it. I have a batch that's about ready (just straight alfalfa pellets, no additions), wondering if I would get the best results from dumping it rather than using it at this point.

This seemed like the most appropriate place for this thread, apologies if that's not the case. Thank you in advance.


----------



## waterproof808 (Sep 10, 2016)

Triacontanol has long been used by farmers to enhance flowering and budset. 
I'm not aware of any research that validates the claim that "triacontanol inhibits terpene production" but it is commonly believed that terpene production is part of a plants defense system and stressing a plant can enhance terpene production. Thus, if you want your plant to experience stress in late flower, feeding it Tria. that enhances photosynthesis will do the opposite. Kelp/Alfalfa tea is still a great transitional and early flower tea. 

I've been reading up on Chitosan oligosaccharide this last week and it is something you may want to consider...it will kick your plants Systemic Acquired Response into overdrive by making it think it is being attacked by insects. It is derived from Chitin which comes from crab, lobster or shrimp shells and also found in insect frass. I just picked up a 25g bag of it off ebay and plan on experimenting with 200ppm foliar sprays. Theres a pretty educational thread on another cannabis forum if you just google "chitosan cannabis."


----------



## Upwards (Sep 10, 2016)

waterproof808 said:


> Triacontanol has long been used by farmers to enhance flowering and budset.
> I'm not aware of any research that validates the claim that "triacontanol inhibits terpene production" but it is commonly believed that terpene production is part of a plants defense system and stressing a plant can enhance terpene production. Thus, if you want your plant to experience stress in late flower, feeding it Tria. that enhances photosynthesis will do the opposite. Kelp/Alfalfa tea is still a great transitional and early flower tea.
> 
> I've been reading up on Chitosan oligosaccharide this last week and it is something you may want to consider...it will kick your plants Systemic Acquired Response into overdrive by making it think it is being attacked by insects. It is derived from Chitin which comes from crab, lobster or shrimp shells and also found in insect frass. I just picked up a 25g bag of it off ebay and plan on experimenting with 200ppm foliar sprays. Theres a pretty educational thread on another cannabis forum if you just google "chitosan cannabis."


So, if I understand correctly, triacontanol can effectively negate anything you do to stress the plant. So if I were going to attempt to stress the plant to boost terpenes, anything with triacontanol in it will prevent those attempts from being effective. But if one were not attempting to stress the plant, then it won't hurt to keep using it? 

I'm obviously still learning, but I had no plans to stress the girls for a terpene boost. I'd only really read anything involving terpenes once before, and I believe it was more about their contribution to flavor rather than potency. I've also seen people post that you shouldn't do anything to stress the plant after a certain point in the growth cycle (like lolly popping so many weeks into flowering). Is this a common technique, stressing them late in flower for a terpene boost? And does this affect flavor at all (I could easily be mixing things up in my head)? How big of a difference in potency?


----------



## Yodaweed (Sep 10, 2016)

I use alfalfa meal during flower, makes great plants.


----------



## Upwards (Sep 10, 2016)

You got me sniffing around the interwebs. Bud Factor X looks interesting, supposedly has both the aspirin and the chitin. Only 22$ on Amazon too for the .25 liter, which should be plenty for a single foliar spray application. I have just enough time until chop to get 1 spraying in (product website says not to use within 3 weeks of harvest). The way my brain tends to latch on to things, I'll wonder all the way to next year if I could have a little better if I just tried this stuff. Unless, that is, one of the resident experts here tells me not to bother with it.


----------



## Yodaweed (Sep 10, 2016)

Upwards said:


> You got me sniffing around the interwebs. Bud Factor X looks interesting, supposedly has both the aspirin and the chitin. Only 22$ on Amazon too for the .25 liter, which should be plenty for a single foliar spray application. I have just enough time until chop to get 1 spraying in (product website says not to use within 3 weeks of harvest). The way my brain tends to latch on to things, I'll wonder all the way to next year if I could have a little better if I just tried this stuff. Unless, that is, one of the resident experts here tells me not to bother with it.


Bud factor X is good stuff really increases oils and terps, I use it for my hydroponic system.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Sep 11, 2016)

Upwards said:


> Twice on another forum, someone mentioned that this stuff would somehow inhibit the production of terpenes and thus lower overall potency if it is fed to the plant "late in flowering".


Curious, what lab does that "someone" own or work for?


----------



## researching (Sep 11, 2016)

Upwards said:


> In case it matters, outdoor grow, 5 gal buckets, southern new england, Pinewarp seeds from BCbuds, roughly 2nd-3rd week of flowering. Some seem to be a little behind, possibly due to light pollution (or just genetic variance), I expect the furthest along will take another 3 weeks, the slowest maybe 5. My estimates may be off, pics available if its important, just ask.
> 
> Loving this alfalfa tea I've been using for the last 2 months, has really done great things for both my girls and my vegetable garden. So I start learning more, searching forums, and reading stuff written by people who know way more chemistry and botany science than I do. And, not surprisingly, I start overthinking and worrying about what someone said might be about to happen.
> 
> ...


I disagree. I have used Canna Boost and now Vitamin hormone booster by MB Ferts going on 3 years. Both have tria. The get fed this from teen to the grave. I do flush for 1-2 weeks, but question why in late flower it would supposedly make a difference. My shit reeks like a mofo.Cat piss anyone?! If I don't keep the flower room closed the whole house reeks and it can be smelled outside and I only run legal numbers. I have no scientific proof to back any of this up, but I do have proof via my nose, tastebuds, and friends and family who have wholly enjoyed it, some even saying some of it was the best they've had.


----------



## Upwards (Sep 13, 2016)

Yodaweed said:


> Bud factor X is good stuff really increases oils and terps, I use it for my hydroponic system.


Do you use it as a foliar spray at all? How much do you dilute it for a foliar spray?


----------



## Yodaweed (Sep 13, 2016)

Upwards said:


> Do you use it as a foliar spray at all? How much do you dilute it for a foliar spray?


Nope I don't do foliar sprays.


----------



## hyposomniac (Sep 13, 2016)

Alfalfa and tria are two different questions imo, as lots of people seem to use tria til harvest with no problem.
This is my third season outside using alfalfa and kelp tea, drench and foliar. I love it and use it till about a week into september, max.
This year i planted autos alongside the photos. The autos got alfalfa til harvest and the bud structure suffered imo. Too much foxtailing and branching within the bud.


----------



## Upwards (Sep 16, 2016)

hyposomniac said:


> Alfalfa and tria are two different questions imo, as lots of people seem to use tria til harvest with no problem.
> This is my third season outside using alfalfa and kelp tea, drench and foliar. I love it and use it till about a week into september, max.
> This year i planted autos alongside the photos. The autos got alfalfa til harvest and the bud structure suffered imo. Too much foxtailing and branching within the bud.


Thus far I haven't used anything as a foliar spray and it doesn't seem like it would be a good time to try for the first time, here in mid-september. I gave them some alfalfa tea about a week ago, it sounds like you're recommending I use something different for my next feeding. What can you recommend, preferably something I can Brew on the cheap like I did with the alfalfa. High P guano?


----------



## Rrog (Sep 16, 2016)

Insect frass = poop. You want insect bodies. Chicken feed is insects. You can but freeze dried mealworms also. Or raise them in pails


----------



## hyposomniac (Sep 16, 2016)

Upwards said:


> Thus far I haven't used anything as a foliar spray and it doesn't seem like it would be a good time to try for the first time, here in mid-september. I gave them some alfalfa tea about a week ago, it sounds like you're recommending I use something different for my next feeding. What can you recommend, preferably something I can Brew on the cheap like I did with the alfalfa. High P guano?


I use
neptunes fish a little weaker than label recommends,
kelp meal at 1.5 teaspoons per gallon,
tm7 at 1/4 tsp per gallon (humic/fulvic w trace minerals)
Dash of potassium silicate.

Overall its pretty cheap but you could get by with just a bottle of the fish ferts and do fine.
I don't bother brewing it per se, because i don't have a proper brewer, i just bubble it till the ph stabilizes 12-24 hrs.
It dawns on me that we need context... Whats your soil mix?


----------



## Upwards (Sep 17, 2016)

hyposomniac said:


> I use
> neptunes fish a little weaker than label recommends,
> kelp meal at 1.5 teaspoons per gallon,
> tm7 at 1/4 tsp per gallon (humic/fulvic w trace minerals)
> ...


Soil mix was roughly half composted cow manure and half base soil. Added to that I threw in plenty of perlite, a little sand, a little blood meal, and powdered lime. In retrospect it's a little lackluster. In my defense I didn't join this site until June this year. To compound the problem with lackluster soil, I'm doing it out of 5 gallon buckets. And on top of that, I got a large growing strain. So I have these 12-foot monsters coming out of 5 gallon buckets. I imagine my soil is exhausted. It was looking kind of iffy until I discovered the Alfalfa tea in mid-july. Before that I was using some old Miracle-Gro. It worked about as well as you would expect. I can only describe the Alfalfa tea as amazing.

I think I'm going to order some high p bat guano and the Peruvian seabird guano and Brew that with some earthworm castings I have according to a recipe I found here. Will cost me 40 bucks but probably last me two or three years since I'm using it only at the end of flowering.

Foxtailing is a New Concept for me. And after an hour of reading I can see my plants are chock-full of foxtails. Some seem to think this is no big deal and may actually be a good thing, others say you'll never really reach maturity as long as foxtailing continues. The Alfalfa is most likely the cause, but is this something I should be concerned about? Will it take care of itself once I switch fertilizers? Will it change what I should look for as far as when they're ready to chop?


----------



## hyposomniac (Sep 18, 2016)

Upwards said:


> Soil mix was roughly half composted cow manure and half base soil. Added to that I threw in plenty of perlite, a little sand, a little blood meal, and powdered lime. In retrospect it's a little lackluster. In my defense I didn't join this site until June this year. To compound the problem with lackluster soil, I'm doing it out of 5 gallon buckets. And on top of that, I got a large growing strain. So I have these 12-foot monsters coming out of 5 gallon buckets. I imagine my soil is exhausted. It was looking kind of iffy until I discovered the Alfalfa tea in mid-july. Before that I was using some old Miracle-Gro. It worked about as well as you would expect. I can only describe the Alfalfa tea as amazing.
> 
> I think I'm going to order some high p bat guano and the Peruvian seabird guano and Brew that with some earthworm castings I have according to a recipe I found here. Will cost me 40 bucks but probably last me two or three years since I'm using it only at the end of flowering.
> 
> Foxtailing is a New Concept for me. And after an hour of reading I can see my plants are chock-full of foxtails. Some seem to think this is no big deal and may actually be a good thing, others say you'll never really reach maturity as long as foxtailing continues. The Alfalfa is most likely the cause, but is this something I should be concerned about? Will it take care of itself once I switch fertilizers? Will it change what I should look for as far as when they're ready to chop?


Hey upwards,
Take this as friendly advice, not expert.
KI don't have any experience with guano but if you found a recipe here you should be good.
Foxtailing late in flowering and it can seem like theyll never finish. Ive seen it earlier and the buds looked like a bunch of wheat but they did ripen normally.
I think im near your neck of the woods and for me the weather dictates harvest. Past mid october and i cant control mold.


----------



## DemonTrich (Sep 26, 2016)

Terpinator

20ml/gal weeks 3 thru 8
I run 69 day flower times from flip.


----------



## mr. childs (Sep 26, 2016)

DemonTrich said:


> Terpinator
> 
> 20ml/gal weeks 3 thru 8
> I run 69 day flower times from flip.


ever thought of just using potassium sulfate by itself ? i did this summer outdoors, i'll let you know of the results...


----------



## DemonTrich (Sep 26, 2016)

Nope


----------



## harris hawk (Oct 8, 2016)

DemonTrich said:


> Terpinator
> 
> 20ml/gal weeks 3 thru 8
> I run 69 day flower times from flip.


purchased some - any good advice to give - other that using it in weeks 3 thru 8 - some say use only 1/4 amounts ? Help convince me ? also it say's use of hydro and DWC ; no mention of soil


----------



## DemonTrich (Oct 8, 2016)

Can't give any advise other than how I use it, listed above.


----------



## mr. childs (Oct 8, 2016)

harris hawk said:


> purchased some - any good advice to give - other that using it in weeks 3 thru 8 - some say use only 1/4 amounts ? Help convince me ? also it say's use of hydro and DWC ; no mention of soil


i used it years ago in soil, it worked great. nice greasy flowers as a result, i followed the bottle's directions. i suggest using it, but there are cheaper alternatives that are better to construct on your own, but are also more time consuming to create.


----------



## DemonTrich (Oct 8, 2016)

Dr who (I believe that's his sn) posted a recipe for terpinator as well as sweet n raw/sugar daddy). For pennies on the dollar cost.


----------



## harris hawk (Oct 9, 2016)

mr. childs said:


> i used it years ago in soil, it worked great. nice greasy flowers as a result, i followed the bottle's directions. i suggest using it, but there are cheaper alternatives that are better to construct on your own, but are also more time consuming to create.


 Look at "Liquid Gold" by Kelp4Less


----------



## Dr. Who (Oct 25, 2016)

DemonTrich said:


> Dr who (I believe that's his sn) posted a recipe for terpinator as well as sweet n raw/sugar daddy). For pennies on the dollar cost.


Yup.....Terps is in the "Do it yourself" section. The sweet Raw is all over.....in different threads.


----------



## LurchLurkin (Oct 28, 2016)

Idk about this triacontanol thing. 

There was a lot of research in the 70s and 80s leading up to patents. Only one patent didn't lapse with a commercial product in Finland.

A foliar spray of 0.005ppm as I recall boosted corn, tomato, and some other crops yield. They didn't describe how it was prepared. A more recent study compared a nutrient fed dose to tomato and corn and only found a benefit to the tomato, suggesting that it only benefits c3 plants if delivered that way, by boosting co2 assimilation. 

There's probably at least one more active patent as tria something sells little sachets apparently mixed with tween. One patent, by a guy named Weliber, claims that tween encapsulates positive ions that are necessary for the tria to work and so is an ineffective carrier detrimental to all crops tested aside from sweet corn. He claims a polar organic solvent further diluted with positive ions to be more effective. He sells a product called calcium25 and I think he was once prosecuted for making meth, and currently under investigation by the FTC. He also said any additional auxins applied negated any positive effects too. His site says calcium25 has no tria. If it worked, why not still use it?

The Finland product uses a polar organic solvent to dissolve the tria, a rapeseed oil to help spread it and bind/penetrate the leaves, and short chain carbon molecules (I think EtOH) to provide extra carbon for the photosynthetic boost provided by the tria. Personally I'm not sure of rapeseed carrier clogging the stomata though.


----------



## CobKits (Oct 30, 2016)

i asked growmau5 about his opinion on canna boost vs triacontinol. he recommended growmore jumpstart on cost alone. its like 1-2 ml/gal and only costs $25/qt. ive been using canna boost for a long time but $300/gal is ridiculous


----------



## mr. childs (Dec 31, 2016)

CobKits said:


> i asked growmau5 about his opinion on canna boost vs triacontinol. he recommended growmore jumpstart on cost alone. its like 1-2 ml/gal and only costs $25/qt. ive been using canna boost for a long time but $300/gal is ridiculous


have you ever thought of picking up the boost equivalent that mb ferts produces? years ago i bought 90% + tria powder from them, but they no longer sell it online...


----------



## CobKits (Dec 31, 2016)

i havent but mb is legit for sure. trying one thign at a time, using jump start for now. i like it but its a little too.. organic with the kelp. funks out my reservoir


----------



## mr. childs (Dec 31, 2016)

CobKits said:


> i havent but mb is legit for sure. trying one thign at a time, using jump start for now. i like it but its a little too.. organic with the kelp. funks out my reservoir


at least it wasnt alfalfa meal... i dumped two cups into a 5 gallon to ferment it & had the entire house smelling of excrement for a good while, even with the molasses combined


----------



## Coloradoclear (Jan 10, 2017)

hyposomniac said:


> Hey upwards,
> Take this as friendly advice, not expert.
> KI don't have any experience with guano but if you found a recipe here you should be good.
> Foxtailing late in flowering and it can seem like theyll never finish. Ive seen it earlier and the buds looked like a bunch of wheat but they did ripen normally.
> I think im near your neck of the woods and for me the weather dictates harvest. Past mid october and i cant control mold.


Some strains are prone to foxtailing too.


----------



## Illies1982 (Jul 29, 2017)

mbferts is not legit. Complete bullshit. Canna boost is bullshit. Try tria it works! Seems there is a lot of selling on this Rollitup. I wonder how many people are being pay to talk up junk nutes!!


----------



## Illies1982 (Jul 30, 2017)

BTW What do you think the secret ingredient that is in canna boost? Well its tria. Make your own save your money, stop buying water!!!


----------



## DrTricoma (Jan 23, 2020)

waterproof808 said:


> Triacontanol has long been used by farmers to enhance flowering and budset.
> I'm not aware of any research that validates the claim that "triacontanol inhibits terpene production" but it is commonly believed that terpene production is part of a plants defense system and stressing a plant can enhance terpene production. Thus, if you want your plant to experience stress in late flower, feeding it Tria. that enhances photosynthesis will do the opposite. Kelp/Alfalfa tea is still a great transitional and early flower tea.
> 
> I've been reading up on Chitosan oligosaccharide this last week and it is something you may want to consider...it will kick your plants Systemic Acquired Response into overdrive by making it think it is being attacked by insects. It is derived from Chitin which comes from crab, lobster or shrimp shells and also found in insect frass. I just picked up a 25g bag of it off ebay and plan on experimenting with 200ppm foliar sprays. Theres a pretty educational thread on another cannabis forum if you just google "chitosan cannabis."


If I understand your point correctly, Triacontanol is good during veg and Chitosan some time in late flowering stage? Thank you!


----------



## DrTricoma (Jan 23, 2020)

Yodaweed said:


> Nope I don't do foliar sprays.


not even en veg?


----------



## porrista (Aug 23, 2021)

Today I just dissolved the Tria Powder into a few drops of laundry soap, then added it to the water and it didn't precipitate at all.

I added 50ppms to the container for the root zone and a very light spray at 800ppms on the girls
They look fine but I have been dealing with a calcium+potasium lockout due to using tap water and currently flushing them. Will post updated pics later if I notice any effects.

Currently, they have no smell at all, even if I touch the resins, they smell a bit like citrus and "plant".. This is Bruce Banner at the end of week F3 and as usual with these lockouts (K) it was starting to smell before, then stopped due to the C-K lockout.


----------



## budman111 (Aug 23, 2021)

porrista said:


> Today I just dissolved the Tria Powder into a few drops of laundry soap, then added it to the water and it didn't precipitate at all.
> 
> I added 50ppms to the container for the root zone and a very light spray at 800ppms on the girls
> They look fine but I have been dealing with a calcium+potasium lockout due to using tap water and currently flushing them. Will post updated pics later if I notice any effects.
> ...


Best used a a foliar in veg/early flower


----------

