# How to keep your reservoir cool



## mogie (Mar 21, 2007)

Maintaining a highly aerated root zone at optimum temperature is key to achieving high yields and problem-free grows. This FAQ focuses on indoor hydroponic reservoir cooling options. 

*Why do I need cool root temperatures?* 

High root zone temperatures often plague indoor growers running water culture (aero/bubbler/dwc/hydro) systems. These systems are subject to rapid heating by intense HID lighting, which increases root zone temperatures, which decreases dissolved oxygen (DO) levels. Rapid plant growth, combined with low DO levels, can cause oxygen deprivation which in turn can result in infection by opportunistic pathogens such as pythium. 

The key to maximum growth is to keep the air temperature at 75-80F, but the root zone at 68F or less. Note: the reservoir should be kept slightly cooler than the rootzone - irrigation and system heating will warm the water by the time it reaches the roots. 

Optimum root growth occurs at 70-75F; however, destructive root diseases also grow and reproduce rapidly at these root temperatures. Maintaining nutrient temperatures at or under 68F maximizes root growth and DO, and inhibits pythium. 

*Reservoir cooling options:* 

Warm summer temps often require aggressive cooling measures. Bubblers and dwc are difficult systems to temperature regulate due to their (usually) small volumes and lack of external reservoir. 

Note: spray / drip / mist / circulate nutrients on a frequent basis to equalize reservoir and root zone temperatures. Intermittent spraying may require a slightly lower tank temp, to compensate for system heating occurring during "off" spray cycle. (ie. Keep tank temp around 64F for intermittent spray cycles, 68F for continuous spraying). 

Note: submersible pumps add heat. Use an external/inline pump to minimize heat transfer. High quality digital thermometers are recommended. 

Add cold water when topping up. 
Note: abrupt changes in temperature may shock roots.
Frozen pop bottles/milk jugs. 
Fill to ¾. Keep extras in the freezer to replace thawed bottles with new frozen ones, replace as necessary. Note: "Freezy packs" tend to crack and leak.
Increase size of reservoir 
Larger volumes are slower to warm up, pH/ppm is more stable and tank changes are less frequent.
Put reservoir/bubbling buckets onto floor, or set on concrete blocks to conduct heat away from the water.
Insulate 
Paint all exposed system surfaces white or use reflective material (such as mylar or reflectix). Wrap insulation around tank. Use a camping cooler for a reservoir (pre-insulated and comes with a drain!).
Swamp cooler 
Blow a fan directly across the surface of reservoir for excellent evaporative cooling. This method works well (expect a 10F drop in res. temp), but humidity and tds will increase, and more frequent topping up will be required. 

[SIZE=-2]430 scrog[/SIZE] "?add a computer fan to a duct blowing into your tank (cut air exit holes). You can run it on a timer (1 hr on, 1 hr off). I run a float valve to keep it topped up." 
Make sure lid and reservoir can be easily removed.
Blow air through the root zone 
Divert small amounts of cool intake air directly into the root zone.
Remote reservoir 
In-room reservoirs will quickly heat up to room temp. Put the reservoir (and ballasts) outside of the grow room to minimize tank heating.
Airstone / Power head / Venturi air supply should be drawn from a cool source (ie. Cool outside air).
Peltier coil (Thermoelectric chillers). 
[SIZE=-2](Bayou grower)[/SIZE] "I use an Ice Probe ($125) and it works well. It uses 50 watts and pulls the temp down 4 degrees under ambient. Cools 10 gal or less." (see coolworksinc.com for more models)
Reservoir chillers 
These are electric A/C units made specifically for cooling water. (Search for "Aquarium chillers") 
[SIZE=-2](smokin fl)[/SIZE] "?a heavy box with fan and compressor coils, with a 5 foot refrigeration line with a titanium coil at the end. All you do is plug it in, set the controller and put the coil in the res. Circulate nutes for the best cooling. Get a bigger model than you need."
Cooling coil





A coil of stainless steel is put into the reservoir, cold tap water is trickled through the coil and the overflow runs down the drain. A circulation pump in thte rez makes the cooling more efficient. Adjust tap flow as necessary (Water use can reasonable). No power, unlimited cooling, quiet. 

Making your own cooling coil: 

Scrap yards and appliance repair shops are full of A/C and fridge coils: 4-20 loops (more surface area is better), with male garden hose connectors welded to each end (Don't use copper or nickel coils). Available in Hydro stores (around $100 cdn). 

Note: Cooling coils may not be useful for those on metered water. 

DIY heat exchangers: try hot tub suppliers, home brew stores.


----------



## stucklikechuck (Aug 15, 2008)

awesome thread! i have a built in resevoir under my table. what is the best way to chill the res? should i just put frozen water bottles on the table and let the bottles cool the water while having a fan blow on top of the table? my current water temp is 77 degrees and i am a little worried. will this shock the roots? thanks!


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 27, 2008)

How cool is too cool???

Say... water at 58F to 62F... root zone at 66F to 68F.... plants at 70F to 72F... 

Is it just slowing growth? or are there other detriments?

Thanks!


----------



## Guilt (Sep 21, 2008)

Good aquarium chillers are $400+ ... there is a better solution.


Craigslist  Go on craigslist, find a water cooler... you know the ones you put jugs in, push the button, and you get water to drink .... 

I see them for under $30 all the time. Rip it apart, and make use of the coils =)


----------



## mrbuzzsaw (Sep 21, 2008)

i have been pulling my hair out trying to find a good way to diy a cooling unit
i think i have finally found a cheap way to do it. i will test it out and let ya all know what i come up with
Stay tuned!


----------



## Guilt (Sep 21, 2008)

Let us know how it turns out!


----------



## TengokuCannabis (Sep 23, 2008)

Anyone using a ebb & flow system have any problems with water temp rising?


----------



## Bullethead21 (Nov 8, 2008)

What about converting a PC water cooling kit? I have already used PC fans that I pulled off these mini radiators that the water passes through and get cooled by the radiator and the fan attached to the radiator. Its all a 12 volt DC system and very easy to convert both the fan and water pump which could be mounted right on the side of the outside of the tank....a couple of 12v DC adapters for power to fan and pump and your all set.

It should circulated the water from inside the tank through the cooling resevoir and bump back in cold water into the tank.

Just thinking aloud here...I just remember how easy it was to convert a 4 1/2 inch PC cooling fan mounted on the back of a PC cooling radiator for the PC cooling unit and splicing to power to 12v DC adapter I had layng around and then using that for a exhust fan. All else needed was a 10 foot piece of dryer hose to make the exhaust vent.


----------



## Bullethead21 (Nov 8, 2008)

Well so far the plans are looking good. One can actually do this without drilling any holes in the tank which is no big deal for the tubing for the inlet side. The outlet side after water has been run through cooling radiator can also be layed over top with the power power to the submeged pump or you could drill another small hole at the top of the tank somewhere for your return water thats nice and chilly......

Only obstacle I ran into so far is matching up the tubing and fitting size. Seems I got 2 or 3 different type PC water cooling kits around and they all dont use the same size tubing. SO once I get some more cheap tubing I should be all set. This is all gonna be mounted externally either directly mounted on the outside of the tank, or a nearby shelf will work nicely also.

Ill ppost some pics after I get the tubing I need.

BTW- just in case any are interested, Im using parts prom a thermaltech and Bigwater PC water cooling kits. The fan on the radiator is 4.5 inch fan size...standard 12v DC.....I can give you more specs if you have specific questions.


----------



## Bullethead21 (Nov 8, 2008)

Could someone explain in detail how you would go about running a fan to blow air across the water thats inside the tank? In one of these post that was suggested as a way to keep res temps down...just wondering exactly how that would work....


Thank You!


----------



## GypsyBush (Nov 8, 2008)

Bullethead21 said:


> Could someone explain in detail how you would go about running a fan to blow air across the water thats inside the tank? In one of these post that was suggested as a way to keep res temps down...just wondering exactly how that would work....
> 
> 
> Thank You!


That was me...

And by the way... SUPER PROPS FOR THE PC CHILLER!!!! YOU ARE THE MAN

I kept a big ass fan, like a house fan... in front of my babies... and as soon as I noticed the the temps climbing, I would crack open the lid to the res.... allowing the fan's wind to blow across the water..

Very crude, but it worked by about 10F at least...

Please take pictures and do a DIY post on this chiller you are working on...

I know several people here that would greatly benefit...

Thanks a million.... and +rep all the way Bro....


----------



## mjg132 (Nov 8, 2008)

The trouble with the pc water cooler setup is the rad ,being brass/copper adding 'nasties' to your nutes,another is the reliabilty of the 12v pump, especially on timers.
The best 'delta-t' you could achieve is 4*C* above* ambient,remember,the pump you use will be a source of heat.


----------



## Bullethead21 (Nov 8, 2008)

Very true mjg132, but A- we are talking very small amounts of heat, very small, and B- dont really care that its a small heat source because in either instalation its NOT inside the tank like a submersed water pump is, so the heat is NOT warming the water in your tank.


----------



## mjg132 (Nov 9, 2008)

Yes it _will _heat the water,the pump has water flowing through it and therefore _will _heat the water ,its part of the 'bottleneck'.


----------



## Bullethead21 (Nov 9, 2008)

I over clock CPU's all the time and heat is our main factor to deal with. I assure there would be no heat genertated by this pump, plus, thats wat the radiator is for silly, to chill the water so what goes back into the tank in nice chilled water.

ANd the raditor I use which I will picture later will not get anthything nasty that will harm your tank, not if you use good equipment anyhow. I dont want anything nasty in my cpu cooling system going through my very expensive bigwater tank and res., everything is very clean and filtered.

Here is a small pic of a demo test run Im about to do just to see what the temp coming out will be like...the radiator is not pictured here but will be in the bext one after I get the tubing installed correctly.

AS you can see first off the type of pump is made to be mounted inside a PC case so its tested not to put off any heat to heat up the inside of your PC case, Ive tested it, it puts off vertually no heat at all, pluse its a external mount and not even touching the tank, its about 8 inches away at where the pump is currently mounted. This is just one of many ways to mount the pump and radiator....


----------



## mjg132 (Nov 9, 2008)

I understand PC watercooling too,i have it,and im not being silly. 
Yes the rad/fans will cool the water,but during that process the elements that combine together that produce heat are part of the equation,an equilibrium is achieved whereas the hot begins to cool and the cool becomes the hot,what's left is the compromise and the final temp. You wont get lower than at least 4*C above room temp.


----------



## justsmoking (Feb 19, 2010)

Yes I'm using the ebb n grow system and need a chiiler if you keep it under your HID


----------



## GranolaGumbo (Feb 19, 2010)

I live in a very warm and humid climate and I tried to do hydro in an outdoor shed. I tried everthing from simple fan systems to a complicated homemade water cooler circulation setup.
I'd suggest saving your pennies and getting a real water cooling unit for your res. I think you'll end up at the same conclusion, but it should be fun to watch.

Good Luck!


----------



## CDXX (May 1, 2010)

For my dwc res with 15 gallons of water, I use the CoolWorks Ice Probe. It works VERY well, Chills the water to 10 degrees below the air temp (the air is about 80, and the water is just under 70). It is cheap, efficient, and easy to install. I was able to augment the unit's cooling ability to taking an additional clip fan, and pointing it at the heat sync. This additional airflow helps the unti chill more effectively. I'm planning on insulating my tub, and that should further increase the chilling effect. Here are some pictures:


----------



## fatman7574 (May 1, 2010)

Some good info here but the thread starter began the thread out with lots of bad info that pretty much makes almost all the other information moot. *A properly set up and run system does not need cool reservoir temperatures so as to have reservoir water with a higher DO.* Nutrients are actually taken up better at warmer temps about equal to the plants temperature. Plants roots really do not need a lot of DO, so the temp is not an issue. The issue is large masses of roots suspended in water (DWC) or laying thick in the bottom of a tube or a through can not get access to enough water with DO as most water never comes into contact with the center of the large root masses in ost sysytems. Indreasing staurated oxygen by lowering the ten mps still dies nor bring the root masses center roots into contact with more water so the whole issue of temps and higher DO therefore is entirely moot. The difference in bacterial growth between 68 degrees F and 90 degrees F is pretty negligible. Build and operate better systems and quit thinking lower temps and higher DO is the answer to bacterial problems such as root rot. It is not the naswer. syatems such as samll y tube aeros, NTF am nd poorly circulated DWC with too many plants can easily develop root ri ot even with low temps and g high DO. Poor designs and poor operation is the problem not reservoir temp and reservoir DO. If the DO all around a root mass is high but the DO of the water in the center of the root mass is zero or near to zero there will be root rot. Lowering the temp and thereby possibly raisng the DO around the rooyts does not mean the center of the root mass receives any more watercirculation than before so it wil still have zero or near to zero DO water there, so root rot will develop. This hold true for DWC, NTF, and small tube aero systems.

Simple as that. Yes there are things that can be done to help those systems but no one asked for that information they just wasted time talking about needlessly lowering reservoir water temps. Go figure.


----------



## fatman7574 (May 1, 2010)

CDXX said:


> For my dwc res with 15 gallons of water, I use the CoolWorks Ice Probe. It works VERY well, Chills the water to 10 degrees below the air temp (the air is about 80, and the water is just under 70). It is cheap, efficient, and easy to install. I was able to augment the unit's cooling ability to taking an additional clip fan, and pointing it at the heat sync. This additional airflow helps the unti chill more effectively. I'm planning on insulating my tub, and that should further increase the chilling effect. Here are some pictures:
> View attachment 911981View attachment 911982


That form of cooler is about about 1/10 as efficient as a cheap window air conditioner costing the same amount. For the cost I would just buy a seras $100 window air conditioner take thefan out and wrap some tubing around the heat exchanger (evaporator) and use a small pump to circulate water through it. Use a Ranco Temperture controller: http://www.etcsupply.com/ranco-etc111000000-digital-temperature-controller-p-86.html The small Coolworks Ice Probe just transfers heat to the air right outside the reservoir. It was made for removing heat from electronics not water reservoirs. It has since been foolishly adapted for and sold for cooling minature reef tanks. The Coolworks Ice Probe just means heating the plant room and thereby reheating the reservoir. It also has teissue that it by rules of physics is suppod sedto remove heat from a hotter area to a cooler area. Usually a reservoir has nearly the same water temperature as the growing area where it is sitting. This makes it even less efficient. Moving heat from ana rea at the same temo ps is not a design fetaureof a Peltier (thermoelectric) cooler. That is why it has the extra fan and large numerous fins to try to take davantage of even the slighest temp difference from the hot side to the cool side. Try to get one of these expensive toys to try to pump heat from a reservoir lower than the room temp. It will work backwards.

Without a thermostat the iceprobe runs continously. The amount of cooling it does while running is adjustable but that just means if you adjust it for removing a set anmount of heat while the lights are on it still runs at that same rate while the light are out. You can crudely adjust for that by running it off your light timer.


----------



## sdkid (May 1, 2010)

Fatman,

what type of hydro system do you think is most efficient?


----------



## fatman7574 (May 1, 2010)

Large chamber cyclic aero. For SOG use HP aero or air atomized. For larger plants or a little slower growing larger SOG plants nedium pressure cyclic aero. For indoor growing of really large trees large trees outdoor grows with multiple drip irrigation emmitors. It is not really possible to efficiently light thick bsuhy tress with indoor lighting sio the hydro method can be simple flood methods or drip methods unless you can afford lots of lighting, air conditioniong dehumifification and lighting. If that was possible I would use medium pressure deep chamber cyclic aero. For a not so efficient hydro I would recommend spray down tables that are free draining using inert non absorbent well draining media, like rounded pepples, marboes small bio balls rubber mulch. Not hydroton or rock wool or peatmoss, coconut fibers or vermiculite. Definitely not DWC or bubbleponics. They only really good such units require too much wattage to operate as they require large amounts of circulation and air to produce the same results as a more chepaly built operated/maintained HP aero in deep chambers. Actually in between the HP aero and the performance of a medium pressure aero in very large tubes or deep chambers. Medium pressure aero can grow larger plants then the top of the line DWC. The best DWC also bonzai the plants more like HP aero rather than Medium pressure aero. 

Small tube low pressure aero and small tube or small tray NTF are junk and quite commonly no better than the typical DWC and Bubbleponic systems. These five methods very commonly experience extreme root rot problems.


----------



## sdkid (May 2, 2010)

Do you have any pictures of these pressured aero or where i can start getting a good reading off it? I would love to see some of your set-up, with your knowledge i am eager to see what you have running.


----------



## fatman7574 (May 2, 2010)

I quit posting photos on line after my last felony manufacturing conviction 9 years ago. There are only a few HP aero photos in this forum in the aqua pod forum and even he has quit posting photos. I am quite sure if he thought the moderators would pull those photos they would be pulled. It is a 100 page plus thread and it is less than 5 months old. Most info such as links to government sites and research papers are passed via PM among st the regular posters Boy in the open forum. The sites tend to be pulled down quickly when a link is posted to them in the open forum. Just read their regularly and ask questions if your confused or don't find the info you want. There are even a few posters from the Middle East and South America. Don't expect much in the way of photos other than when the thread first opened. Most others their also have some "strong on line personalities"


----------



## aeroscroggrow (May 2, 2010)

What exactly do you mean by deep chamber aeroponics tub? How deep or large are you talking about? I use a botanicare 7 in (?) deep tub for my aero setup. It's definetely not HP aero, I just use a 950 gph pump with it. Also, when you said that rez temp is not an issue, what would the alternatives be for improving said aero system? thanks for any help


----------



## 12268 (May 2, 2010)

aeroscroggrow said:


> What exactly do you mean by deep chamber aeroponics tub? How deep or large are you talking about? I use a botanicare 7 in (?) deep tub for my aero setup. It's definetely not HP aero, I just use a 950 gph pump with it. Also, when you said that rez temp is not an issue, what would the alternatives be for improving said aero system? thanks for any help


hi, I think he means TUBE, not tub


----------



## fatman7574 (May 3, 2010)

Running at least one perforated irrigation tube the length of the tubes just below the center of the tube if it is a small tub, The tube should run through approx the middle of the piled up root mass laying in the bottom of the tube. Plus always have a strip of silk screen cloth or root matting lining the bottom of your tube or trough. Once your roots reach thetube bottom it becomes a combination of a NTF and an aero sytem. Once the roots start piing up thickly in the bottom of the tube it is a very small amount AERO as only a little root is actually up suspened in air and being sprayed. The rest is not even really NTF as they point of NTF is to have a 10 mm layer of water flowing down the botton of a wide flat trough. Water DO typically only diffuses throuh about 10 mm of unmoving root mass, sand or dirt etc. This means a *maximum* of 10 to 20 mm of stacked roots if 10 mm of the water is flowing under the roots and therefore passing DO up through the roots. This is only the case though when the roots are spread out across the tube/trough in a thin layer though. 

However with high stacked roots and no matting or silk screen 10 ml of water does not freely flow through the bottom of the tubes/troughs as the roots are to heavy and compress as they are saturated with water. The silk screen there fore helps by assuring there is water able to flow under the roots to at s least some extent. Most of the water actually just runs across the top of the mass of compacted roots. That means it can supply at max to the top 10 mm of roots. 10 m is approx 4/10 of an inch. So your systenm can at best supply good water with DO to the bottom 1/2 inch and the top half inch of compacted roots, plus what few roots are above the compacted root mass. Running one or two small perforated tubes spraying outwaterthrough the larger aero tubes means water with DO will also be delivered to the inside of the root mass. Normally what little water that penetrates into the center of the thick root mass is stripped of all its DO before all the roots get sufficient DO. This causes root death in amounts high enough to cause root rot to set in. Lots of dead roots in a area without oxygen means much bacterial growth and therefore faster greater amounts of rot. Simple 1/2" PVC platic tubes with a hole every few inches with water running constantly will mean much less chance of root rot and better growth.

To be a large tubes are for sod Aero 6" wide and 19.5 inches tall. For tall plants aero it means 6" wide and about 28 inches tall. Deep chambers are 2)" to 36" tall. I prefer 36" even for SOG.

There is only about 4% more DO in 64 degree F water than in 74 F (9.45 ppm verusus 9.08 ppm), there is only 21% percent more at 84 than at 64 degrees (9,45 verus 7.54 ppm). Plant roots do not even use all the DO in water with a DO of 3 or 4 ppm when the water is only suppling DO to a 10 ml layer. However water at even 9.45 ppm DO will not be supply enough oxyen for a thick mass of roots when it is very, very slowly moving through the roots in small quantities. So a lower temp is not the solution. The solution is if you have thick masses of roots get water into the inside of the root masses or grow with an aero system that has tall enough tubes where there are not thick masses of roots laying in the bottom of the tubes. If your growing NTF think 10" or 12 " wide throughs at least. Even then grow small quick plants at high temps using ventilation or CO2 and a dehumidifier.

Yes there are ways to deal with DWC systems to other than trying to maintain low temps to boost DO. The problem is not so much low DO or high temps but the problem of not getting adequate volumes of water with DO to the center of your root masses. Lowering the temp and slightly incresing the DO is not a solution as if that water still does not get to the center of the root masses in adequate volumes to carry the slightly increades DO you will still have the same problems. The samall amount ofbenefit in health to your plant roots due to the cooler temp water having a higher DO will actually be more due to a slower growing plants neding less DO rather than because of higher DO in the reservoir. It doesn't help to have a higher DO if the plants still do not get adequate enough water carrying DO. It doesn't make since to have intense lighting and lots of nutrients available if you going to grow slowly at cooler temps where the intense lighting and quality nutrients are just wasted due to cooler temps. I have seen also seen people using CO2 and dehumifirrs and air conditioning and running their rooms at 86 degrees temperatures but using a chiller to run a resrvoir temo at 68 degrees. Then they woder why their plants are still not growing fast or putting out high yields. Go figure.

And don't be afraid to use chlorox or hydrogen peroxide.


----------



## aeroscroggrow (May 3, 2010)

Thank you for that advice. I hate to play 20 questions but you seem like one of the few who knows how to actually grow mj. So you are saying that I would need a silk screen in the bottom of my tray? This is the one I use. 
http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=944

It has a lid with 9 plants in it. I am currently using scrog for this grow. Where would I get a silk screen?

Also, I am using GH 3 part. I realize that commercially available nutes for mj are crap but I am not yet ready to mix my own. Is there any other combination (of gh) that you would use for aero?

thanks again for your input


----------



## fatman7574 (May 3, 2010)

Are you growing Ebb and Flow or AERO. Yor link is to trays that would mosy commonly be used for a small ebb and flow system. How are your nutrients supplied by flooding (fiiling the tray then letting it drain., or sprayed from misters andd freely draining out the tray. Is there a medium in the tray or are the roots suspended in air and also laying in the bottom of the tray. If it is the spraying non medium method then yes silking or root matting material would be advized as would irrigation pipes raised above the bottom of the trays to position them in about the middle of any stacked up root masses.

Silk screen is typically available in any city. Just look up silk screen printing or printing silkscreen in your phone book. Or it is availble on ebay. Root matting is aviable at horticutural shops on the web.

GH3 part is about as good as any other. The nutes are not really bad the systems they are used in are typically sad systems.

Try reading this thread. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/268790-lucas-formula-recipe-scratch-really.html


----------



## aeroscroggrow (May 3, 2010)

I am currently using an aero system with 9 plants supported in 3 in. netcups with hydroton. I have a misting setup in the bottom of the tray that adequately supplies the roots with moisture. The water then drains back to a reservoir. Would you still recommend silk screen with this setup? And I have read that thread once but I will read it again, great info. Any other tips would be appreciated as this is my 1st grow. ( not counting growing my mother plants for cloning ) thanks


----------



## GMBBOYZ (May 3, 2010)

whats going on roll it up?? I need some feedback here.First time buyer from attitude and i need to know how long does it usually take to get to the east coast and should i be nervous about bein ripped off or are they legit...ordered on the 1st ~ g13 labs white widow ~ g13 labs blue venom femz..any one have any advise for the strains and for my worries about attitude...thank to all!!!!


----------



## fatman7574 (May 3, 2010)

GMBBOYZ said:


> whats going on roll it up?? I need some feedback here.First time buyer from attitude and i need to know how long does it usually take to get to the east coast and should i be nervous about bein ripped off or are they legit...ordered on the 1st ~ g13 labs white widow ~ g13 labs blue venom femz..any one have any advise for the strains and for my worries about attitude...thank to all!!!!


Are you lost? What are you posting such a question here. Take it up with the seller not in the forums. We can seldom get the moderators to read the forums yet alone seed sellers or rollitup administrators.


----------



## jev12b (May 4, 2010)

Believe the Fatman!!


----------



## jev12b (May 4, 2010)

Just wana thank the Fatman for telling us what we need to know. But I gota say its a hard pill to swallow with all the other info out there. But I forced myself to listen ( when nothing anyone else was saying about water temp was working ). So I abandon water temp torture for an exacting dose of hygrozyme in 20 mins Ph was stabile and Im sleeping more. But I need to improve my system. Fatman U da man!


----------



## fatman7574 (May 4, 2010)

aeroscroggrow said:


> I am currently using an aero system with 9 plants supported in 3 in. netcups with hydroton. I have a misting setup in the bottom of the tray that adequately supplies the roots with moisture. The water then drains back to a reservoir. Would you still recommend silk screen with this setup? And I have read that thread once but I will read it again, great info. Any other tips would be appreciated as this is my 1st grow. ( not counting growing my mother plants for cloning ) thanks


 If there is a thick stack of roots laying in the bottom of the tray then yes I would recommend silk screen or root matting. If there is a thick root layer I would suggest you get at least some small tubing (3/ tubing sold at Home depot or Lowes etc and drill a hole every few inches (say 1/16" in diameter) or buy some predrilled from a horticulural store (lazered holes) and run it through the approximatte center of the height of the layer up root mass every few inches apart and run water through it 24/7. After your present grow put in something more permanent. Sat 1/2" PVC pipes every few inchs apart the length of the tray. The holes can be very small, like 1/16 of an inch or smaller.


----------



## aeroscroggrow (May 4, 2010)

thanks I think I will go with the silk screen


----------



## fatman7574 (May 5, 2010)

jev12b said:


> Just wana thank the Fatman for telling us what we need to know. But I gota say its a hard pill to swallow with all the other info out there. But I forced myself to listen ( when nothing anyone else was saying about water temp was working ). So I abandon water temp torture for an exacting dose of hygrozyme in 20 mins Ph was stabile and Im sleeping more. But I need to improve my system. Fatman U da man!


 
I wish I could laon a DO meter to the duodters out their so they could test what I have written to see I am not bull*hitting but I am afraid I would not get my DO meters back to often. Just think of this: drill a very small hole into your aero tube or NTF tube/trough at the height of the center of the root mass laying stacked up on the bottom of the tube/trough. Stick a very small piece of tubing (say a interio diameter of 1/8" or smaller through the hole and into the roots masses center. The other end goesthrough a hole in a pill bootle lid so that water rins into the bottle. Realise it will increase a very slight bit in DO due to the oxygen in thebottle. After you collect about an inch of water test the DO. It will be at or very near zero. Check then the DO of the water leaving the drain. It will be very near the DO of the water entering the tube or trough. 

My self I drilled a half inch diameter hole in 4" diameter aero tubes at three heights in the lying root masses and checked the DO at two foot intervals along the pipe. At all distances over about 5/8 of an inch below the top to within about 3/8" of the bottom of the roots masses that were 2.75" high on average and the measured DO was between 0.75 ppm and zero ppm with a slight decline from the beginning of the tube (1' from the non drain <higher> pipes end) to the drain side (1' from the drain end). And that was with a DO just over 9.0 as it entered the tubes from the pump. I used a large low velocity flow from a Danner pump (as is typical for volume and pressure used by the majority of aero growers) supplying 10 gph spray heads one per every 6" with 10' long PVC pipes for aero tubes. The plants were vegging SOG plants 15" to 17" in height and 4 weeks into a 6 week budding cycle. The DO of the combined water draining from the aero tube was 7.9 to 8.1 ppm. IE 2/3 of the roots were getting little to no DO.


----------



## CDXX (May 16, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> That form of cooler is about about 1/10 as efficient as a cheap window air conditioner costing the same amount. For the cost I would just buy a seras $100 window air conditioner take thefan out and wrap some tubing around the heat exchanger (evaporator) and use a small pump to circulate water through it. Use a Ranco Temperture controller: http://www.etcsupply.com/ranco-etc111000000-digital-temperature-controller-p-86.html The small Coolworks Ice Probe just transfers heat to the air right outside the reservoir. It was made for removing heat from electronics not water reservoirs. It has since been foolishly adapted for and sold for cooling minature reef tanks. The Coolworks Ice Probe just means heating the plant room and thereby reheating the reservoir. It also has teissue that it by rules of physics is suppod sedto remove heat from a hotter area to a cooler area. Usually a reservoir has nearly the same water temperature as the growing area where it is sitting. This makes it even less efficient. Moving heat from ana rea at the same temo ps is not a design fetaureof a Peltier (thermoelectric) cooler. That is why it has the extra fan and large numerous fins to try to take davantage of even the slighest temp difference from the hot side to the cool side. Try to get one of these expensive toys to try to pump heat from a reservoir lower than the room temp. It will work backwards.
> 
> Without a thermostat the iceprobe runs continously. The amount of cooling it does while running is adjustable but that just means if you adjust it for removing a set anmount of heat while the lights are on it still runs at that same rate while the light are out. You can crudely adjust for that by running it off your light timer.


I can tell by your comments that you don't like the coolworks iceprobe lol. You're clearly experienced, so I'm not trying to challenge your expertise...but dude...it works really well, and for the price and ease of use, I'd say its better than almost any other option on the market. When I used the coolworks iceprobe, and insulated my reservoir, it will keep 15 gallons of water 20 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than the surrounding air. For what it's worth, I am buying an air conditioner, but that has more to do with using co2 than my res temp (I can't run outside vent fans and still use co2, so I need to air condition instead). So, all I'm saying, is that for my purposes, it made much more sense to get an $120 ice probe than a 300-400 dollar chiller, plus pumps, etc. As well, I don't even have the ice probe thermostat. I just let it run naturally, and it keeps things at the perfect temp, right around 65-68 degrees, regardless of the air temp (it got as hot as 90 inside once by accident).

Finally, while I could take apart an air conditioner, it was just a lot easier to use an ice probe. The ice probe costs around 120...the ac costs 100...the effort saved is worth $20 in my opinion. It takes maybe 2 minutes to install an iceprobe, and half of that time is spent drilling a hole. The heat it generates is really pretty negligible...it raised my cabinet temp by maybe 2 or 3 degrees, tops...which, considering the 20 degree water temp drop, is fine by me. As well...I'm not sure where you heard that it is less efficient than an air conditioner...but I think that is incorrect. An air conditioner will use a lot more energy than an iceprobe will...and while it might be more powerful, it's entirely unnecessary for only 15 gallons of water. It like using a semi truck to move 1 box of stuff.

Again, I'm not saying the ice probe is an ideal solution for a large scale hydro setup, but for what I'm doing, it is by far the best option, and I would recommend it to anyone else in my situation. The iceprobe is cheap, reliable (only 1 moving part, the fan), uses little energy, and works as advertised.

The one thing I will concede is that the ice probe doesn't work nearly as well when the reservoir is not insulated. It still dropped the reservoir about 6 or 7 degrees without insulation, but it is much more effective when used with insulation. However, insulating my reservoir was cheap ($6) and easy (only needed duct tape and scissors). And honestly, I think people should insulate their reservoirs anyways...it saves on cooling costs no matter what system you use, helps prevent light leaks, and helps maintain a more consistent water temperature.

In short, I feel that you are not giving the iceprobe nearly enough credit. When used properly, it offers easy, reliable performance at a good price. I plan on buying another one to chill a second reservoir in a month or two.


----------



## fatman7574 (May 16, 2010)

CDXX said:


> I can tell by your comments that you don't like the coolworks iceprobe lol. You're clearly experienced, so I'm not trying to challenge your expertise...but dude...it works really well, and for the price and ease of use, I'd say its better than almost any other option on the market. When I used the coolworks iceprobe, and insulated my reservoir, it will keep 15 gallons of water 20 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than the surrounding air. For what it's worth, I am buying an air conditioner, but that has more to do with using co2 than my res temp (I can't run outside vent fans and still use co2, so I need to air condition instead). So, all I'm saying, is that for my purposes, it made much more sense to get an $120 ice probe than a 300-400 dollar chiller, plus pumps, etc. As well, I don't even have the ice probe thermostat. I just let it run naturally, and it keeps things at the perfect temp, right around 65-68 degrees, regardless of the air temp (it got as hot as 90 inside once by accident).
> 
> Finally, while I could take apart an air conditioner, it was just a lot easier to use an ice probe. The ice probe costs around 120...the ac costs 100...the effort saved is worth $20 in my opinion. It takes maybe 2 minutes to install an iceprobe, and half of that time is spent drilling a hole. The heat it generates is really pretty negligible...it raised my cabinet temp by maybe 2 or 3 degrees, tops...which, considering the 20 degree water temp drop, is fine by me. As well...I'm not sure where you heard that it is less efficient than an air conditioner...but I think that is incorrect. An air conditioner will use a lot more energy than an iceprobe will...and while it might be more powerful, it's entirely unnecessary for only 15 gallons of water. It like using a semi truck to move 1 box of stuff.
> 
> ...


Thermoelectric junctions are generally only around 5&#8211;10% as efficient as the ideal refrigerator (Carnot cycle), compared with 40&#8211;60% achieved by conventional compression cycle systems (reverse Rankine systems using compression/expansion). Due to the relatively low efficiency, thermoelectric cooling is generally only used in environments where the solid state nature (no moving parts, maintenance-free) outweighs pure efficiency.
Peltier (thermoelectric) cooler performance is a function of ambient temperature, hot and cold side heat exchanger (heat sink) performance, thermal load, Peltier module (thermopile) geometry, and Peltier electrical parameters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling


----------



## CDXX (May 17, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Thermoelectric junctions are generally only around 5&#8211;10% as efficient as the ideal refrigerator (Carnot cycle), compared with 40&#8211;60% achieved by conventional compression cycle systems (reverse Rankine systems using compression/expansion). Due to the relatively low efficiency, thermoelectric cooling is generally only used in environments where the solid state nature (no moving parts, maintenance-free) outweighs pure efficiency.
> Peltier (thermoelectric) cooler performance is a function of ambient temperature, hot and cold side heat exchanger (heat sink) performance, thermal load, Peltier module (thermopile) geometry, and Peltier electrical parameters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling


I think you are missing my point...efficiency can be measured in many ways. While watt per watt, an air conditioner might be more efficient, my point is that the Iceprobe works very well for situations where an air conditioner would be overkill due to its size and power. Even the smallest air conditioners use around 500 watts of power. Meanwhile, my iceprobe uses less than 50 watts of power. So, using 1/10 the power of an air conditioner, I can chill my insulated reservoir roughly 15-20 degrees. To chill my reservoir any more would be pointless. So, in other words, your cooling idea uses 10 times as much power as mine does. And while that extra power might be useful when cooling many many gallons of water, it would be a tremendous waste to use that to cool a smaller reservoir. So regardless of the science involved, the sheer size and scale of an air conditioner will always make it less efficient when cooling small amounts of water, just by virtue of the fact that you can achieve similar results with a much less powerful product. It's like I said in the last post, you are basically suggesting that we should use a semi-truck to move only 1 box of stuff. I'm not arguing with the science, I'm simply stating that your application of it misses the point. You have yet to explain why it is more efficient to use a 500 watt (minimum) device to cool something that could be adequately cooled by something consuming 1/10th the power. An air conditioner=overkill. Overkill=waste. Waste=less efficient.


----------



## fatman7574 (May 17, 2010)

CDXX said:


> I think you are missing my point...efficiency can be measured in many ways. Not in this case. Efficiency is how much does it cost in electrical consumption to remove the amount of heat you wish removed. The air conditioner is 40% to 60% efficient in compariosn to the perfect ideal Carnot cycle refrigeration system (which does not exist in reality only in theory). This means that the air conditioner will use much less power to remove the same amount of heat or remove more heat for the same amount of power. he same goes for a chiller in comparison to a IceProbe. Assume their are 100 units of thermal energy in your water. The Carnot cycle refrigeration unit will remove 100% to for one unit of power. The air conditioner or chiller will remove 40% ton 60% of that heat for 1 unit of power. An Iceprobe trying to exhaust heat to a warm area will at best run at 1% to 5% efficiecy. Likely closer to 1 or 2%. At 5% efficiency it is equivalent to the same power usage for the same amount of average heat transfer (50%) as a 500 watt air conditioner. While watt per watt, an air conditioner might be more efficient, Duh. my point is that the Iceprobe works very well for situations where an air conditioner would be overkill due to its size and power. I do not buy it Dude. Your talking about a hot cabinet with a hot resrvoir. Your very inefficiently extracting the heat from the water and dumping it in a hot area. That means it is even less efficient. An airconditioner can be bought for $100 and it will cool the reservoir water and the grow roo both. While it may use 500 watts while it is running it uses them efficiently.The airconditioner/chiller is thermostaically controlled it only uses power when it is running not a constant power usage like the ice probe. Meanwhile, my iceprobe uses less than 50 watts of power. And performs very poorly for the amount of power it uses. So, using 1/10 the power of an air conditioner, I can chill my insulated reservoir roughly 15-20 degrees. With a 50 watt draw 24/7 that is not regulated by the actual temops so the temp flucuates depending on the heat input. To chill my reservoir any more would be pointless. No one said that you should cool it anymore than that amount. Dude. So, in other words, your cooling idea uses 10 times as much power as mine does. When it is running it uses 10 times as much power but it is a good ten times as efficent at a minimum so 10*10= 100. IE it will run 1.2 minutes and hour when the light are shining verus your 60 minutes per hour for 24 hours per day every day. At 20 cents per kwh your Iceprobe will cost $7.20 per 30 days to run while the air condtioner chiller would cost $0.72 And while that extra power might be useful when cooling many many gallons of water, it would be a tremendous waste to use that to cool a smaller reservoir. How so dude? The IceProbe is going to perform at only a few percent efficiency verusu the airconditioner at an average of 50%. So regardless of the science involved, the sheer size and scale of an air conditioner will always make it less efficient when cooling small amounts of water, Not True. just by virtue of the fact that you can achieve similar results with a much less powerful product Not true, and wrong. The phase change of refrigertation is so much more efficient then the heat transfer caused by dissimilar materials ICEPROBE that the Iceprobe thuntil recently only used for very special circumstances until marketers found creative ways to sell them to unknowing people. They should never be used unless they are absolutely necessary due to their gross inefficiency. They are so inefficient that they are not hardly even use to cool electronics any more. They a ought to outlaw their frivilous use. Start up a IceProbe dealership in Californial and sell them there. They are so efficient power costs would hit $1 per kwh. It's like I said in the last post, you are basically suggesting that we should use a semi-truck to move only 1 box of stuff. No and the saying is "...Rent a U-Haul truck to return a library book." It is a saying by Martin A. Moe a well known fisheries biologist that published one of the first marine fish and coral books for the reef aquarium hobby trade. No I am simply suggesting you use something that is efficient rather than a faddish toy that is very inefficient. I really do not want to deal with higher energy costs because a bunc]h of unknowledgeable mj growers are using an inefficient, toy like, faddish nano aquarium cooler to cool their undersized/minature nutrient reservoirs when it can be done at a lower purchase and enery cost with a simple window air conditioner or a small chiller. Yes they make very small chiilers (1/15 hp) that are cheaper to operate and are much more efficient then an ICEPROBE. A 1/15 hp chiller is smaller then 1 cubic foot. I do advocate if your reservoir is so small that an airconditioner/chiller is consider too large that you upsize you reservoir. I'm not arguing with the science, I'm simply stating that your application of it misses the point. You have yet to explain why it is more efficient to use a 500 watt (minimum) device to cool something that could be adequately cooled by something consuming 1/10th the power. Because that is not the case. The IceProbe is using easily over 10 times the power it would take for an airconditioner to do the same cooling. Plus the airconditioner dehumidifies and its heat can be sent anywhere you wish. An air conditioner=overkill. Not true. Overkill=waste. DUDE, the airconditioner costs half as much. It is over 10 times as efficient. It is thermostatically controlled. It provides more benefits and it is a wiser more energy conserving method of cooling. Waste=less efficient. But the Iceprobe wastes more energy Dude. Look at the numbers Dude. [/QUOTE]
> 
> Wow, are you really that unexsperienced or do you just not do any research before you buy such faddish things as an IceProbe.


----------



## CDXX (May 18, 2010)

A) No, I'm not an inexperienced grower, I actually grow considerable amounts of very good cannabis (I'm in the medical community, so I don't mind saying that on the 'net). B) The jab about my level of knowledge, and the "faddish" line you keep throwing around do nothing to further this conversation. they just serve as a negative distraction. You disagree with me? Fine, but let's not throw names around. C) The quote from Martin A. Moe was not what I was referring to...honestly, I don't know who that is (though I suppose now I do). I just made up the semi truck thing on the spot...my initial analogy was going to be "using a shotgun to hunt a squirrel", but I thought that would be a bit graphic for RIU 

Have you ever used an iceprobe? I'm guessing not, though it seems like you've had a negative experience with one, so maybe you have. Clearly this conversation has wandered off the path, so let me make my original point again. *For the situation I was discussing (a small cabinet grow), the iceprobe worked really well.* It lowered my reservoir temperature by the right amount, is easy to use, and uses very little electricity (no noticeable increase in my power bill). As well, it is very small, and did not considerably raise my cabinet temp (again, no more than perhaps 2 degrees, if that). As I said, I'm not arguing with the science you are using. What I AM saying is that regardless of that, my iceprobe works very well in the situation I am in, more so than an air conditioner would. This is particularly true because running ventilation through my strange windows is a big challenge, so adding another duct for an ac unit would be a major pain, if not impossible (this is a situation I feel many cab growers face). 

If I'm not mistaken, the point of this thread was someone asking for help to cool their reservoir. Since the iceprobe work really well for me, I figured I'd let this guy know. I understand that you feel differently, but quite frankly, there are a great many people out there that are happy using an iceprobe to chill their water. Is every iceprobe customer happy? Of course not! But the fact of the matter is, this product worked well for many people.

My ultimate point is this: I did a lot of research, looking at chillers large and small, scouring the internet for cooling solutions. I found the iceprobe, and it has worked really well, I have only good things to say about it. It was cheaper than everything else, even your a/c idea (which is 100, plus pumps, plus tubing, plus man-hours, etc.), was definitely easier to install, took up far less space, and did an excellent job cooling my reservoir. You keep saying it will run up my energy bill, but it just hasn't, I don't know what to tell you...

As far as upping my reservoir size, to accommodate a larger chiller or ac, you are clearly missing the point. If I wanted to have a big hydro grow, I would have one. I have 3 different sites going right now, any of which I could make into a big hydro set up...the point is, I wanted to try something new, a 6 plant micro grow. I have 3 plants per reservoir, with roughly 15 gallons of water in the res...why would I need more water than that for 3 plants? That's 5 gallons per plant...that's plenty of water. Not every situation calls for the biggest, most powerful solution. Many closet/cabinet growers aren't going to want to deal with modifying ac units, and running vents and chiller tubes through everything, so I proposed an alternative solution.

I guess my main issue is that you keep advocating for bigger, more powerful cooling solutions when those solutions might not necessarily be the best fit for the situation. I'm not disagreeing with your use of the science behind this stuff, and I'll be the first to admit you clearly have spent more time researching "the peltier effect" than I have. However, you can't assume that one solution is going to be the best for any given grow. Someone experienced like you should know that each grow is different. In my grow, the iceprobe was by far the best overall option. And, since I really liked the product, I figured I'd share it with someone else. You don't like the iceprobe? Fine, but that doesn't mean the product can't work well. I understand that you disagree with me, and I'm glad you voiced this...debate is healthy. But, you need to accept that the iceprobe can work really well for some people; I know this for a fact, because it has for me.

The iceprobe isn't for everyone, but neither is air conditioning. It's ok to disagree, but I think you're focusing too much on the abstract, and not enough on how this product works in the field. As I said, maybe you had an iceprobe, and it didn't work. If that's the case, then you should say so, and tell us what went wrong so we can learn from it. Otherwise, if you haven't had one, then you should perhaps consider the fact that I do own one, and use it with a great deal of success. I'm not new to growing, and I'm not an idiot; I wouldn't go around wasting my time and money on something I didn't think would work the best for my grow. I'm not going to keep arguing about efficiency rates when all I intended to do was let someone know that I used a particular product, and that it worked really well.

In short, an ac unit wasn't a good fit for what I was trying to do, nor was a standard chiller. I feel that many other cab growers would also prefer to avoid messing around with this stuff, and that is why I brought up the icepick. I never said it was a cure-all, I just said it can work very well for smaller amounts of water, and this is in fact true. 

So, you can keeping trying to debate me over efficiency rates of cooling mechanisms, but again, you are missing the point; there is no ONE solution to cooling problems. Mine is just a possible one, and it works extremely well for me.


----------



## fatman7574 (May 18, 2010)

Bla sa, blasa, bla sa. Bull, bull, bull *hit. It is a inefficient piece of equipment that is being sold and used in an inappropraitee manner. It is because of people like the iceprobe people and people like you that make it hard to believe we will see any relief from our energy problems untiil we start having catastrophic problems worse than wars andall due to energy shortages. And you will still be running your cute liitle grossly inefficient cooler. I vote for out lawing their use in such a fashion. It is just a very inefficient luxury we all must pay for down the line. They impose mileage standards on automobiles but they let marketers sell that stuff to unknowledgable people that do not even understand how they work or just how inefficient they are. Go figure.


----------



## CDXX (May 18, 2010)

This is a forum about marijuana growing. This thread, in particular, is about cooling reservoirs. What this thread is NOT, is a place to have a debate about energy consumption and climate change, or whatever else it was you were alluding to by saying "catastrophe". 

I offered up a suggestion about a reservoir cooling device that for me, was pretty effective. You clearly have a personal grudge against the iceprobe, and that's fine, but this isn't the place for you to personally attack me. Find another thread, then go off on a tangent about the environment over there; I'm not here to have a debate about global energy policy.

Honestly, I'm surprised by your last post. It was, quite frankly, irrelevant to the thread topic, and did nothing more than offer up some ad hominem attacks a vague argument relating to energy consumption. Quite frankly, if you are that concerned about energy use, then you probably shouldn't be growing cannabis at all...do you really think that using a modified a/c isn't also using energy on what is, for most people (excluding those who are genuinely ill), a luxury item? I think it is fair to say that marijuana is no more necessary for living than driving a Hummer; and most grows, particularly large ones, burn through tremendous amounts of electricity. And, let's not forget the tremendous amount of environmental damage caused by fertilizer (even organic fertilizer) getting into the water system. But you seem to be cool with all of that, so I guess that stuff is ok.

Anyways, I'm not going to participate in the hijacking of this thread any more. This argument is no longer about the efficacy of a cooling device, and you have clearly decided to make this personal. If you have anything more to say, then you should be messaging me, not posting it here.

Before I go, I will restate my original point one last time, so the discussion can pick up again:

*I used a coolworks iceprobe to cool an insulated reservoir with 15 gallons of water about 15-20 degrees below air temp. It was cheap, compact, easy to use/install, and reliable. I have had no problems with it thus far, and would recommend it to anyone who asked.*


----------



## JeffersonBud (May 26, 2010)

Energy and efficiency goes hand in hand with electronic devices. Fatman is pointing out that for a $130 Ice Probe, you can get a window ac unit and convert it which will run your temps with more control, and because its more efficient, save you money. I have no idea why you would negate efficiency when talking about electronic cooling CdXX. I don't think he has a vendetta about the ice probe, but simply put, there are more efficient devices to cool.
With all due respect, I think it is YOU that can't see past something you bought, for something that is perhaps better.
Why not take into effect energy consumption? With my liquid cooled lights, I am saving around $1500 a year on electricity! Who want's to throw away $1500? By the time a year rolls around, the window ac unit, being way more efficient, could buy you many ice probe unit, or perhaps a few hundred dollars in your pocket.
Furthermore, having efficient mechanics means less of a footprint on the energy bill which for a lot of people growing is a welcome sign of secrecy.
Growing cannabis is not like "driving a Hummer" YOU may like to throw money away but for most of us, it would be bad business.
Remember, people grow outdoors for free. No Hummer involved!

Fatman is only telling you about more efficient means, not that the device doesn't work. You are totally wrong in your thoughts about what this forum or discussion should be. We encourage BETTER and MORE EFFICIENT means to grow PERIOD.


----------



## CDXX (May 26, 2010)

Perhaps you missed part of my point, which is understandable, because I've made several posts on this thread. So, let me reiterate:

Just empirically speaking, my power bill hasn't gone up. The ice probe is equivalent to having roughly one, single fluorescent bulb running (50 watts or less). Basically, using the iceprobe uses less power than a standard reading lamp. The device is so small, it really doesn't use up that much electricity, regardless of efficiency. So your point about having the government discover my grow based on an iceprobe is somewhat moot; an extra 40-50w of power is not even close to being significant enough to raise suspicion. (not to mention I'm a medical grower, so it was never much of an issue anyways). And, in terms of money, perhaps it will cost me an extra 10 or 15 dollars a year more than an airconditioner...which in the grand scheme of things, is a really small sum. So your point about cost effectiveness doesn't really hold much sway; maybe it would if I was using 20 iceprobes to cool hundreds of gallons...but I'm not.

As well, you've missed my point about scale. Using the example about liquid cooled lights is an inappropriate example...we're not talking about cooling large HID lamps...just 10-15 gallons of water. My main point was that it would be overkill to use a window A/C to chill such a small reservoir. In terms of size, it would just take up a lot of space, space that many people don't have to spare. As well, for those of us growing in a closet grow, this means having to figure out a way to install the ac, and vent the tremendous amount of hot air it would put out. Most closet growers don't want to deal with that, I know I wouldn't...after all, what's the point of growing in a closet if you still have to run multiple air ducts throughout your house...you might as well just use the room itself.

In summary, my point about efficiency isn't just about electricity, it's about the efficiency of grow space design, ease of use, etc. As I've said, the iceprobe only makes sense for small grows, which mine is. If I had so much water that I needed to use an a/c unit, then I would just buy an actual chiller (like a 1/4 hp one or something like that). So, for less money (again, fatman failed to mention the price of pumps, tubing, etc. you'd need), and a lot less effort, I can use a chiller which consumes less energy than a light bulb. As well, there aren't really any moving parts, nothing to leak, get clogged, etc. It also takes up perhaps 1/20 the space of an a/c unit, and could be installed in 1/50th of the time. So while an a/c unit might be more efficient in terms of output per watt, I would hardly call it *better*, given all of the other problems associated with its implementation.

As for the hummer remark, I'm referring to indoor growing, I figured that was apparent...generally people aren't chilling reservoirs outdoors with air conditioners, and the person starting this thread certainly wasn't. And, my point still remains if you are growing outdoors, the runoff from your grow is in fact bad for the environment. Fertilizer runoff is a real problem, especially for big grows. I'm not personally particularly bothered by this, but the point still remains that if you were really, really worried about the environment, you wouldn't be growing, because the resources used to grow could be put to much better use elsewhere, and you WILL cause harm to the environment no matter how hard you try to avoid it.

Ultimately, the problem with your and fatman's suggestions is that they are unworkable for a great many people. Yes, in an ideal world, we would all be using ultra efficient LED setups with perfectly calibrated thermostats and water cooled lamps, etc.. But we don't live in that world, and for a lot of people the a/c solution isn't going to be feasible. So I've proposed an alternative that works really well for me, in hopes of providing guidance to someone who was asking about different options for cooling their res. I'm not saying the a/c idea doesn't have merit, I'm just saying its not necessarily the one-stop, cure-all approach to chilling a reservoir. I never said my iceprobe worked for everything, just for small cabinet grows, and in that regard, it works really well.

One final note: I would hardly call fatman's posts "encouraging". If you meant disparaging, that would be a more appropriate adjective. Furthermore, I think you would be hard pressed to defend his last post as anything close to constructive. I have no issue with civil disagreement like the sort you and I are having. But fatman just decided it would be easier to call me names. However, that's between me and fatman; your post was at least somewhat civil and relevant to the discussion, and I appreciate that.


----------



## fatman7574 (May 27, 2010)

................................................................................................................................I think I am more inclined to believe the information supplied by Coolworks. They state one probe can pull the temp down 6 to 8 degrees. http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkmgmQv5LTTcB1ChXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NzA4dTRvBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01BUDAwMV84MA--/SIG=12cdljhd1/EXP=1275040678/**http%3a//www.novatecproducts.com/IPAC-50Manual10-28-03.pdf

They also clearly state DO NOT put the unit in a completely enclosed cabinet enclosure. After reading the operators manual I have come to further believe that the probe definitely does not and can not function as well as you state it does.


----------



## CDXX (May 27, 2010)

Hahaha. If you actually read the directions, you would see that it can cool INSULATED reservoirs 15-20 degrees. I have clearly stated, numerous times, that I insulate my reservoir. Ironically, I do it because it is more efficient (since you're all about that); it retains the cold much better. So, next time try reading my post, as well as the directions, a little bit better. 

And since you've seen fit to call me a liar, I ask you: why on earth would I waste my time going to internet chat sites posting bogus cooling information? Do you think this is fun for me? I'm getting pretty tired of arguing over a stupid water chiller. But I'm not going to back down from my point, because it's true. 

So here's what I'll do: I'll post a pictures of my setup. I'll post my reservoir temperature, my cabinet, and my air temperature. Then you can do the math. And, I expect that once I provide proof, with photos, that you just acknowledge that the device can work well.

I don't understand why its so difficult for you to admit that a chilling device can work as advertised...I'm not the only person in the world who's liked this product, just check the web for reviews. I'm not saying this product works well for everything, I'm just saying it CAN work well in some situations (like mine). Honestly, I find it absurd that you accuse me of lying, rather than just take me at me word...but as I said, I'll prove w/pics, and since a picture is worth a thousand words...you'd better start writing your next post


----------



## CDXX (May 27, 2010)

I promised pictures, so here they are. The labels of the picture files are in parentheses, so there's no confusion. The first picture (iceprobe setup 1) is of my cabinet, which is roughly the same size and shape as an average sized closet (6' tall, 6' wide, 3' deep). As you can see, the temperature inside my cabinet (iceprobe setup 2) is a warm 82 degrees. As well, you can see how I've installed the iceprobe (Iceprobe setup 3 & 5). I simply drilled a hole through the side of my reservoir (which takes perhaps 15 seconds). That white stuff you see is my insulation; I simply dismembered a foam camping cooler from the grocery store, it cost about $6. You can also see the fan on the outside, as well as the white probe on the inside, partially submerged in water (it becomes fully submerged when I put the lid back down, because the weight of the water makes the sides bow out a bit when the lid is off). You should also be able to see my thermometer, giving a reading of 19 degrees celsius (iceprobe setup 6). 19 degrees Celsius is roughly 66 degrees. That would mean the water temperature is 16 degrees cooler than the air temperature...and as I said, the iceprobe keeps my water 15-20 degrees cooler than the air temperature. Finally, I've included a bird's eye view of my setup, just for some scale. The light you see is a 4' 8-bulb T5 light.

So, there you have it: hard proof that the iceprobe can be a very effective tool when used properly. As they say in poker, "read 'em and weep". I fully expect you to acknowledge the validity of my previous claims. And, an apology for insinuating that I'm a liar would be nice too. 

Then again, judging by the content of your're previous posts, you'll probably just accuse me of participating in some vast conspiracy to promote the iceprobe water chiller to unsuspecting closet growers on an obscure cannabis message board. Or, maybe you'll say that I doctored those pictures with photoshop, just to spite you! I'm curious to see what it will be


----------



## CDXX (May 27, 2010)

P.S. Here's a quote from the user's manual which you apparently read so well:

"Greater temperature differentials can be achieved by insulating the exterior surfaces of the aquarium. For example, a single
Aquarium Chiller can maintain a temperature differential of over 20ºF in a fully insulated 10 gallon aquarium."

You can find this quote on page 3 of the pdf file linked on your last post. What is particularly amusing is that this is the first sentence that comes after the temperature chart you used to make your point. So, either you are an extremely sloppy reader, or simply disingenuous. It's one of the two, so take your pick.

Take my advice, and stop embarrassing yourself.


----------



## fatman7574 (May 27, 2010)

Dude, grow up. It is simply a fact that in this forum that you very likely are the only one that cares about the candy *ss ice probe. We just figure if we call you on your insanitty enough you will drop it and simplmove on. It is not like anyone is going to repeat your error and buy one. Noone has steeped up and supported you or agreed with youu Dude. Beisde what does a fully insulated aquarium have to do with your set up now. Are you grasping at more strsws and now syaing your reservoir is a fully insulated aquarium. No comments on ventilation, enclosed space, mimium clearance. What ever child, your newbie heini is on my ignore list and this thread has been turned into a waste due to your repeated struggles to appear to have an acredible opinion. Your repetaed posted replies just show YOU to be an embarrasment. So you andyour play chiller ice probe and your toy box T-5 play grow can by your self enjoy your self as I doubt ayone now will care what you post for a very long time as your crebility as a serious grower is total absent.

Good day dude.


----------



## CDXX (May 27, 2010)

Did someone get their feelings hurt? Again, I've shown* photographic proof of it working*, while you've shown...oh wait, that's right, *nothing at all.* Where's your hard evidence buddy? Ante up, or shut up. I've seen your other posts on this site, you jump all over people that disagree with you (a particular forum about advanced nutrients comes to mind). It sounds like you just can't handle the fact that you're wrong about something.

You talk a good game, and throw around some numbers, but you just can't argue with reality. Unfortunately for you, there's just nothing you can say to cancel out the proof I've given. The pictures don't lie; my res is 16 degrees cooler than the air, all because of the iceprobe. End of story, there's nothing you can say to disprove that.

As I said, I've given all the proof I need to give, the pictures speak for themselves. And I was right, you didn't bother to read the manual, or my posts, your comments clearly reflect that. I've said from the beginning that my reservoir was insulated, and honestly, I'd recommend anyone else insulate their res, it keeps the temperature stable, and helps prevent cold loss and light leaks. If you've never heard about insulating a reservoir, then you should go back to pot class 101, that's beginner stuff.

As for the enclosed space, and minimum clearance, I honestly just followed the directions. I made sure there were a couple inches of space around it, and all I use are some basic ventilation fans. But again, this is all in the pictures. Did you not see the pictures? Because you have yet to address the fact that the photos show that the device clearly works.

You're in a hole, buddy, so just keep on digging, its no sweat off my back. Maybe you should just relax and sit this one out.


----------



## JeffersonBud (May 28, 2010)

Cdxx, 
I am not stating that the probe does not work. If space is a concern, then a probe might be your best shot. Different conditions dictate different perimeters. If it is working great, then keep it.
I am only chiming in on the fact that you cannot throw away efficiency when dealing with electronic equipment. If you have the space needed, a more efficient chilling method would save you money and would give you more control over temperatures. An aquarium chiller when paired correctly to the environment and container size will chill + or - 30f. I have a 1/4 chiller cooling my 100 gallon res. for 3 1000k hps lamps. It chills the water enough to swallow all the heat created by the bulbs and does not exceed the manufactures ratings.

Everyone here has different variables when growing. As growers, we are always looking for the MOST efficient way to produce said product. If the probe works for your variables, then it works period! If you have the space for something more commercial with a better efficiency rating then it would be wise to take advantage of the situation by optimizing efficiency. It WILL save you money in the long run.

With that said, both of you are right in your own way.


----------



## CDXX (May 28, 2010)

Well put, probably one of the more cogent posts in this thread. + rep.


----------



## blakeoleus (Jul 18, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Dude, grow up. It is simply a fact that in this forum that you very likely are the only one that cares about the candy *ss ice probe. We just figure if we call you on your insanitty enough you will drop it and simplmove on. It is not like anyone is going to repeat your error and buy one. Noone has steeped up and supported you or agreed with youu Dude. Beisde what does a fully insulated aquarium have to do with your set up now. Are you grasping at more strsws and now syaing your reservoir is a fully insulated aquarium. No comments on ventilation, enclosed space, mimium clearance. What ever child, your newbie heini is on my ignore list and this thread has been turned into a waste due to your repeated struggles to appear to have an acredible opinion. Your repetaed posted replies just show YOU to be an embarrasment. So you andyour play chiller ice probe and your toy box T-5 play grow can by your self enjoy your self as I doubt ayone now will care what you post for a very long time as your crebility as a serious grower is total absent.
> 
> Good day dude.


Actually, CDXX's experience has convinced me to buy one as well...

fatman, you're the one who is full of it, CDXX is just here sharing his experience and trying to help people and you're here bashing him...simple as that, Q Q


----------



## blakeoleus (Jul 18, 2010)

CDXX said:


> I promised pictures, so here they are. The labels of the picture files are in parentheses, so there's no confusion. The first picture (iceprobe setup 1) is of my cabinet, which is roughly the same size and shape as an average sized closet (6' tall, 6' wide, 3' deep). As you can see, the temperature inside my cabinet (iceprobe setup 2) is a warm 82 degrees. As well, you can see how I've installed the iceprobe (Iceprobe setup 3 & 5). I simply drilled a hole through the side of my reservoir (which takes perhaps 15 seconds). That white stuff you see is my insulation; I simply dismembered a foam camping cooler from the grocery store, it cost about $6. You can also see the fan on the outside, as well as the white probe on the inside, partially submerged in water (it becomes fully submerged when I put the lid back down, because the weight of the water makes the sides bow out a bit when the lid is off). You should also be able to see my thermometer, giving a reading of 19 degrees celsius (iceprobe setup 6). 19 degrees Celsius is roughly 66 degrees. That would mean the water temperature is 16 degrees cooler than the air temperature...and as I said, the iceprobe keeps my water 15-20 degrees cooler than the air temperature. Finally, I've included a bird's eye view of my setup, just for some scale. The light you see is a 4' 8-bulb T5 light.
> 
> So, there you have it: hard proof that the iceprobe can be a very effective tool when used properly. As they say in poker, "read 'em and weep". I fully expect you to acknowledge the validity of my previous claims. And, an apology for insinuating that I'm a liar would be nice too.
> 
> Then again, judging by the content of your're previous posts, you'll probably just accuse me of participating in some vast conspiracy to promote the iceprobe water chiller to unsuspecting closet growers on an obscure cannabis message board. Or, maybe you'll say that I doctored those pictures with photoshop, just to spite you! I'm curious to see what it will be


CDXX, I agree with everything you have said.

Thank you for taking the time to post this.

I have been doing research on cooling my reservoir in my GH WaterFarm 8 pack and stumbled across this thread on the Ice Probe. If I went the chiller route, I would have to add a submersible pump which would drain the system faster than it would refill since it is gravity fed - the Ice Probe will allow me to directly cool the reservoir without a chiller - and my controller bucket (which I use as my res) is only 8 gallons, which should be even easier to chill than the reservoir you were initially chilling.

I'm looking forward to giving this a shot and keeping my res cool without the hassle of having to add in more chillers, pumps, lines, and tubing (which would be more electricity draw and overkill for my situation)!

Thanks,

BlakeOleus


----------



## Boyz N Da Hood (Feb 6, 2012)

Pretty cool tips!


----------



## johngrism35 (May 10, 2012)

Does the method of opening the top of your res. a crack and having a fan blow across the water really lower the res. temp by 10 degrees?


----------



## hellraizer30 (May 10, 2012)

Hell no not 10 degrees


----------



## johngrism35 (May 11, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hell no not 10 degrees


 By around how much would it drop it then, because the a res. tank is around 80 degrees. There is new root growth that looks amazing and have not had root rot but have been battling this temp for about a week. I have 8 airstones for a 20 gal tank and am using H202, I have not had any problems yet but I want to get the temp closer to 72. Would that technique get it that low?


----------



## hellraizer30 (May 11, 2012)

No it will not get it that low! 72 is still to high, 66f is ideal. You need to look into a chiller buddy


----------



## eurasianfarmer (Sep 13, 2012)

think i'll try an ice probe.

if it can help my chiller to cut in less often i'll be happy!!


----------



## superstoner1 (Sep 13, 2012)

ice probe is a joke. i tried 2 in a 25gal res and it got warmer.


----------



## oceangreen (Sep 13, 2012)

superstoner1 said:


> ice probe is a joke. i tried 2 in a 25gal res and it got warmer.


lol, at the setting him straight.

guys just get a good chiller. its a must and an important investment


----------



## 513409 (May 16, 2013)

Going to throw my opinion out there about this thread.

I came in here to go over ideas about cooling a reservoir. What fatman has done here is make a drunken typo runon troll out of himself. He took pages of this and made it a dam soap opera. While his knowledge may be vast.... (Ya you get a lot of time to read in prison I know.) You totally missed the reason for this thread and thus hijacking it. If you Sir were any kind of Man you would reread all you wrote and admit wrong. 

CDXX thank you for your post about how something worked for you in your situation.

I would love to hear what other are using and what is working for your setup per its specs. I am going to start a test DWC starting off with a cooler which will give me insulation right off the bat. I will do a write up on it and share with the RIU community.


----------



## superstoner1 (May 17, 2013)

You are preaching about an 8 month old post. Let sleeping dogs lie.


----------



## 513409 (May 17, 2013)

superstoner1 said:


> You are preaching about an 8 month old post. Let sleeping dogs lie.


I dgaf about post dates.I researched this and it came up, other might do the same so unless this forum prunes lets consider grave digging an act of further adding to the thread. I am looking to add to the subject of the OP why dont you take heed to your own words.... Just because your couldn't cool your hemorrhoids with an ice probe doesn't mean you need to come add unnecessary comments.

PS by the time you replied the post was 5 years old so just st#u 

GOOD DAY SIR


----------



## superstoner1 (May 18, 2013)

Another riu asshole


----------



## timmybro (Oct 26, 2014)

Lol


----------



## myvoy (Apr 26, 2015)

I know it's an old post but wanted to let people know ice probe is junk. you'd be better off with frozen water bottles. I had one in a 9 gallon tote unit in a grow tent and it did almost zero improvement. I bought it because I didnt want to use my 1/4 HP chiller on such small grow. Total waste of time and money...ruined a tote making hole for probe.


----------



## Launchpad_Mcquack (Apr 30, 2015)

I've been using a fan over my resivor for over a month. It will for sure keep resivor at 64-65 ( house temp 62-69) with a 1000k HPS, tent at 77. But I know I lose about a half gallon a day due to evap. This option is great, until you can buy/ make a chiller. 2liter bottles NEVER WORKED!


----------



## FIRST TYMER... (May 1, 2015)

fatman7574 said:


> Some good info here but the thread starter began the thread out with lots of bad info that pretty much makes almost all the other information moot. *A properly set up and run system does not need cool reservoir temperatures so as to have reservoir water with a higher DO.* Nutrients are actually taken up better at warmer temps about equal to the plants temperature. Plants roots really do not need a lot of DO, so the temp is not an issue. The issue is large masses of roots suspended in water (DWC) or laying thick in the bottom of a tube or a through can not get access to enough water with DO as most water never comes into contact with the center of the large root masses in ost sysytems. Indreasing staurated oxygen by lowering the ten mps still dies nor bring the root masses center roots into contact with more water so the whole issue of temps and higher DO therefore is entirely moot. The difference in bacterial growth between 68 degrees F and 90 degrees F is pretty negligible. Build and operate better systems and quit thinking lower temps and higher DO is the answer to bacterial problems such as root rot. It is not the naswer. syatems such as samll y tube aeros, NTF am nd poorly circulated DWC with too many plants can easily develop root ri ot even with low temps and g high DO. Poor designs and poor operation is the problem not reservoir temp and reservoir DO. If the DO all around a root mass is high but the DO of the water in the center of the root mass is zero or near to zero there will be root rot. Lowering the temp and thereby possibly raisng the DO around the rooyts does not mean the center of the root mass receives any more watercirculation than before so it wil still have zero or near to zero DO water there, so root rot will develop. This hold true for DWC, NTF, and small tube aero systems.
> 
> Simple as that. Yes there are things that can be done to help those systems but no one asked for that information they just wasted time talking about needlessly lowering reservoir water temps. Go figure.


Indeed Fatman..I'd like to hear bout DAT info if you feel up to Telln me,,bout to set up my first DWC grow & I hope I got everything I need,,two 30gal totes planning on two plants each tub & I got two 1,152gph commercial air pumps 2agragrow 450 gph sub pumps for my top feed..you know da bells &whistles I'm GONA be in a 52x52x78 tent with 10 different LEDs & 1000w Dimmable,, do I really have to be so scared of water temps or can you tell me how to grow these four plants without root rot or bacterial infestations..THANX


----------



## Bluehillsmoker (May 1, 2015)

Anyone trying to bitch out Superstoner obviously does not know his credentials. That he is an aero\hydro expert with years of experience. Check the profile before you talk mess. Stinkbud family will never steer you in the wrong direction when it comes to indoor growing


----------



## FIRST TYMER... (May 1, 2015)

Bluehillsmoker said:


> Anyone trying to bitch out Superstoner obviously does not know his credentials. That he is an aero\hydro expert with years of experience. Check the profile before you talk mess. Stinkbud family will never steer you in the wrong direction when it comes to indoor growing


----------



## FIRST TYMER... (May 1, 2015)

this my first time on here,,I never sent but 1 reply 2 Fatman askn some advise..no ill


----------



## Jason9922 (Jun 13, 2015)

After reading over this link, I combined several of the methods & added my own thing. My new RDWC system consisting of six 9 gallon modules (5gal buckets w cone tops that hold 10 inch netpot) running on 1200 gph EXTERNAL inline water pump with a 60 quart cooler as res. This is how I built in detail for anyone else wanting to run RDWC and say mother Fuck that chiller bullshit. If your like any normal grower, your around your garden once every three days at least.

1st thing was to go with a nice better than dollar store good sized well insulated cooler that has a drain. Got my 60 quart which rolls on wheels with a handle for $35 in the winter time. Probably cheaper now. I bought a few sheets of MDF board, couple hinges, some cheap window seal kits, couple sheets of board insulation, & screws. In short: I built a box from MDF that the cooler would sit in leaving 6 inches extra on all 4 sides and big enough to line all the way around cooler with insulation boarding, Then made the lid so it sat flush on top and sealed with weather stripping. The 6 inch gap allows coolers original lid to be propped open 3 inches where I have four 80mm computer fans set up in different directions blowing air over top of res. Inside the res I can put 6 frozen 1 liter bottles and at the bottom I have two 9" disc diffusers made for wastewater treatment plants ( got both for $20) these keep the DO supercharged. When shut and sealed & because my res is located in the closet of my grow room the one liter bottles will stay frozen for almost 3 days no bull shit.

2nd thing I did was run 3/4" black Poly hose to my pump. My 1200 gph pump then connects to my homemade from cheap PVC pipe one in 6 outlet water manifold all made from 3/4" PVC. Each bucket has it's 3/4" bulkhead intake up installed with a ball valve near the right under the lid of the net pot with a simple 90' elbow trimmed down on one end inside to create waterfall effect & keeping water from blasting into netpot. I did this because as you all know the waterfall effect is the best producer of DO in nature. At the bottom of each bucket I installed TWO 3/4" bulkheads connected to a Y piece running back to the res. I used two rather than buying more stuff that was different sized and not knowing how well it would drain. Both drains have ball valves to making dialing it in and removing one bucket from system simple.

3rd thing is every bit of 3/4" hose is covered with cheap pipe insulation. The stuff you can buy 40 ft of for $15 to wrap your pipes in the winter with heat tape. Plus all six 5 gallon buckets are wrapped in cheap hot water heater blanket fabric. Keeping everything insulated then covered with mylar to reflect, res and both 1000 watt ballast located outside of room not to mention the two heavy duty CPU computer heatsinks with 92mm fans I installed onto my external inline water pump (worried it was going to heat up my water) has me sitting easilt at 68'F with an air temperature of 78' using NO CHILLER! Just a little ingenuity. So thank you everyone in this thread for your input, this is what I've came up with. I've yet to see anything that resembles root rot and as long as I change out the frozen 1 liters every 3rd day it runs consistent.


----------



## Jonathan Lourie (Aug 27, 2015)

fatman7574 said:


> Some good info here but the thread starter began the thread out with lots of bad info that pretty much makes almost all the other information moot. *A properly set up and run system does not need cool reservoir temperatures so as to have reservoir water with a higher DO.* Nutrients are actually taken up better at warmer temps about equal to the plants temperature. Plants roots really do not need a lot of DO, so the temp is not an issue. The issue is large masses of roots suspended in water (DWC) or laying thick in the bottom of a tube or a through can not get access to enough water with DO as most water never comes into contact with the center of the large root masses in ost sysytems. Indreasing staurated oxygen by lowering the ten mps still dies nor bring the root masses center roots into contact with more water so the whole issue of temps and higher DO therefore is entirely moot. The difference in bacterial growth between 68 degrees F and 90 degrees F is pretty negligible. Build and operate better systems and quit thinking lower temps and higher DO is the answer to bacterial problems such as root rot. It is not the naswer. syatems such as samll y tube aeros, NTF am nd poorly circulated DWC with too many plants can easily develop root ri ot even with low temps and g high DO. Poor designs and poor operation is the problem not reservoir temp and reservoir DO. If the DO all around a root mass is high but the DO of the water in the center of the root mass is zero or near to zero there will be root rot. Lowering the temp and thereby possibly raisng the DO around the rooyts does not mean the center of the root mass receives any more watercirculation than before so it wil still have zero or near to zero DO water there, so root rot will develop. This hold true for DWC, NTF, and small tube aero systems.
> 
> Simple as that. Yes there are things that can be done to help those systems but no one asked for that information they just wasted time talking about needlessly lowering reservoir water temps. Go figure.


Hey fatman,
I am living in Thailand, and about to start a hydroponics farm
I want to do it correctly, could you please email me your tel number so i can ask you a few things. [email protected]
Khun John


----------



## ryan s (Aug 31, 2015)

Jonathan Lourie said:


> Hey fatman,
> I am living in Thailand, and about to start a hydroponics farm
> I want to do it correctly, could you please email me your tel number so i can ask you a few things. [email protected]
> Khun John


lol notacop

I freeze R/O water and add it too my res. A/c coming in near the res and maybe 216 cubic inches (6"x6"x6") of ice a day keeps the res cool. 35 gallons 1200w


----------



## Joemkr (Apr 12, 2017)

First off. Yes this is an old thread. Maybe my info will help someone.
I am using an igloo 28 qt peltier cooler as my aero neut chamber water cooler. It is able to keep my neut water at 60 degrees.
I have grown one crop so far this way and am on my second. So far so good.


----------



## Launchpad_Mcquack (Apr 19, 2017)

Joemkr said:


> First off. Yes this is an old thread. Maybe my info will help someone.
> I am using an igloo 28 qt peltier cooler as my aero neut chamber water cooler. It is able to keep my neut water at 60 degrees.
> I have grown one crop so far this way and am on my second. So far so good.


what kind/ how big is your setup? 

that cooler is interesting. im using a coleman 70 qt as my resivor. but i dont think that breeze can handle alot of volume..


----------



## visajoe1 (Apr 23, 2017)

forget a chiller, just keep enough bennies in the rez and the temps dont matter. running hydroguard, orca, and great white and water temps havent been below 70 in weeks


----------



## HotBunz (Apr 23, 2017)

visajoe1 said:


> forget a chiller, just keep enough bennies in the rez and the temps dont matter. running hydroguard, orca, and great white and water temps havent been below 70 in weeks


Yup...same here I run Hydroguard and give ZERO [email protected] about bucket temps. My buckets get into the low to mid 80's early in my grows, until the canopy gets big enough to shade it. If this is the result with a cheap LED set up and high bucket temps I can't wait to see the results from a better set up...oh and it is an autoflower.......


----------



## PetFlora (Apr 23, 2017)

This works for a small rez (~ 3g)


----------

