# For All Cap Ebb and Grow Users



## pluto420 (Nov 11, 2009)

*I have been trying to find a good thread about the cap e & g system but haven't been able to find one yet so thought I would start this and see if I can get a good discussion going and compile a good overall document on the system.

If you are using the cap e & g system please give your feedback to the following questions and feel free to add anything else of interest you can think of.* *

What medium do you use? Were there other mediums you tried and then switched? I have tried stg inserts and hydro-ton but have much better results with hydro-ton.* *

Did you do any customizations to the system like raising the buckets 1 inch higher than the controller? I put 1 inch spacers in the outer bucket so the inner bucket wouldn't be sitting in water all the time. I also put hose clamps around all the tubing after I had one come off and get water everywhere. * *

Do you use the Cap system for both veg and flower? If so what were your feeding schedules for both stages? If you don't use the system for both veg and flower what did you use for veg and how easy was it to move/transplant to the cap system?* *


How often did you change the rez?* *

Which Nutes do you use?* *

Pros and cons of the CAP system?* *

Thanks to all*


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## blueybong (Nov 11, 2009)

Great idea! I'm interested in hearing from experienced users. 

I did a DIY control bucket and I'm currently using it as a recirculating DWC. I'm following Lucas Formula which has been very stable. I'm flowering with Botanicare Pro Bloom & CalMag.

Next grow will be a true E&G.


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## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 11, 2009)

blueybong said:


> Great idea! I'm interested in hearing from experienced users.
> 
> I did a DIY control bucket and I'm currently using it as a recirculating DWC. I'm following Lucas Formula which has been very stable. I'm flowering with Botanicare Pro Bloom & CalMag.
> 
> Next grow will be a true E&G.


Im using an Ebb and Grow right now. Having good results with it. Im also using the Lucas Formula, with very good results. See my signature line for my current grow.


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## morrisgreenberg (Nov 13, 2009)

havent found a grow yet that had success with STG inserts, although STG's other types like cubes work well but not with theE & G, on stg's youtube video they put a piece of PVC inside the buckets to raise the insert so it doesnt sit in water, even the E & G instructions say if plants do not look healthy raise each bucket, you can see why it could happen, given that 2 inches of water at the bottom can accumulate salts. these issues can be solved by raising buckets or flushing monthly. one thing thats not discussed is actual flushing, sinces theres water everywhere inside the tubing it will take a few days to get it all out, my flush method goes like this. day 1 - dump rez fill with plain ph's water. day 2 - after the first 24 hours and a few flood cycles the ppms in your rez will be higher after mixing in with leftover water in the system, for this i dumpe the rez again and add ph'd plain water again. day 3 - after another 24 hours i dump and addback again or until my rez water ppm is less than 200. i do this only because theres so few flodd cycles to give it a thorough cleaning withing a day and tons of clay pellets hold onto salts, no matter the medium monthly flushing is key to never have problems, so IMO only the cleaning of clay and a good flush are the only laborious parts of using this system, completly idiot proof and amazing growth rates, actually the only system out there that comes close or surpasses the growth rate is aeroponics, which i have ditched for this


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## blueybong (Nov 13, 2009)

Morris ~ I'll be starting my next plants by seeds and once they have a decent root system, I'll be transferring them into the E&G.

Q: how low does the plant sit inside the inner bucket?

Q2: should I cover the Rockwool with hydroton when transferring?

Thanks!


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## morrisgreenberg (Nov 13, 2009)

you can set the plant or cube pretty low, the highest flood line is like 3 inches low from the tip of the bucket, so when adding your pellets you need not go all the way up, you will still have plenty room. make sure you place the rockwool cube 1/2 inch above flood line, this way the RW wont get wet, only the roots. what i do is i stick my buckets in with clay and all before i put plants in and let her flood for a cycle, i do a little digging in the clay pellets and find where its wet and just plop my RW cube 1/2inch above the wet clay pellets and voila! i dont think you need to cover thr rw unless you intend on getting the RW wet with each flood, this is why place 1/2in above waterline, we do not want constantly wet RW here, could cause issues down the road, like stem rot! other then that it wont be wet and it wont have algae, gosh these systems blow out beasts, do yourself a flava and let em veg for a month and give each bucket atleast 2sq ft


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## mrduke (Nov 14, 2009)

hell yeah this is a great system I've been usung it for over a year with great results. Like mo said its almost fool proof and yes flushing takes a few days of res changes, Ionly do this at the end of the cycle. in this setup adding H2O2 really helps in keeping shit clean.

anyone ever tried coco chips in the E&G ???


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## pluto420 (Nov 14, 2009)

Yeah I am done with my stg experiment in this system. But with the rocks it is great. 

If you want to do a good cleaning or rearrange the buckets how do you go about getting the water out of the controller bucket, lines, and outer buckets without getting water everywhere?


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## morrisgreenberg (Nov 14, 2009)

drag a bin or tub in the room and pull the last bucket on the line and hold the line up higher...for real you think theres a way to not get water everywhere? let me know if you pull this off =)


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## pluto420 (Nov 14, 2009)

I know I have not been able to do it without getting water all over the place. But I just thought I would see if someone else came up a unique idea to do it. I basically do what you suggested and its to closest i have gotten to making the least mess to clean up.


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## mrduke (Nov 14, 2009)

when i pull mine out I stack all the outer buckets in to two or three piles then get the old lady to help and we both carry them and the control out to the yard and dump its a pain in the ass but works


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## blueybong (Nov 14, 2009)

I have a small fountain pump that fits nicely on the bottom of the out bucket(inner bucket goes into an empty bucket). I then pump the nutes out into one gallon jugs.


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## pluto420 (Nov 14, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker, *

*I read your journal and have a few questions if you dont mind. 

First I noticed you kept your ph around 5.6 or 5.7 and you obviously had great results. I have always kept my ph around 5.9 - 6.0. I always thought ph was supposed to be higher that you use? You have more experience with me. I assume you would suggest lowering mine?

Secondly it appeared your flood schedule was 2 times a day during the early veg stage and then when the roots came out the bottom you went to 3 times. Did you ever go above 3 times during flower?

Thanks!


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## Quemado (Nov 19, 2009)

Would you go with a 600w or 1000w for a 12 site set up? In a 4'9x4'9 tent


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## national (Nov 20, 2009)

I USE 2 600 HPS WITH MY 12 SITE GOOD COVERAGE I THINK !!! COULD POSSIBLY USE 2 400 HPS OR 1 1000 HPS WITH GOOD REFLECTOR 





Quemado said:


> Would you go with a 600w or 1000w for a 12 site set up? In a 4'9x4'9 tent


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## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 20, 2009)

pluto420 said:


> GreenThumbSucker, I read your journal and have a few questions if you dont mind.
> 
> First I noticed you kept your ph around 5.6 or 5.7 and you obviously had great results. I have always kept my ph around 5.9 - 6.0. I always thought ph was supposed to be higher that you use? You have more experience with me. I assume you would suggest lowering mine?
> 
> ...


Hey, sorry it took so long to get back to you. If you look at the manufacturers instructions for most hydroponic ferts, they say to run your PH at 5.6-5.8. Anything between 5.6 - 6.0 is pretty much fine though. The reason I keep mine lower is because PH tends to rise and I dont like to have to mess with it. When I knock the PH down I will shoot for 5.5 - 5.6. Less chance it will go up out of range. If you run it higher you have to mess with it more often. 

Once I had PH way too high for a couple days and I had some really weird bizarre growth and do not want to experience that again so I dont take chances..

The last three 3 or 4 weeks I usually knock it up to 4 times per day.


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## Jack*Herrer420 (Nov 21, 2009)

Quemado said:


> Would you go with a 600w or 1000w for a 12 site set up? In a 4'9x4'9 tent


 1000w for sure.


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## fluffygrrrl (Nov 22, 2009)

great thread, I've been looking for a forum just for ebb n gro users. It would be nice to have an exclusive thread just for us. Thanks for the tips so far, it can save all of us some headaches. I like the idea of buying hose clamps, can you find them anywhere Pluto? I bought 18 buckets and 2 1k lights. Using GH nutes. Hydroton. I am going to make a diy ebb and flow tray system to veg separately. Currently vegging and patiently waiting until the construction of my sealed grow room is finished. 

My question.... I want to keep my reservoir out of the grow room because of heat issues and also I have a perfect spot next to my utility sink to clean drain, & fill. It is approx 6 feet away from my room. Is there any problems having it that far away? Can I keep the controller with the res as well, and just add extra lines? Can I add a pipe to thread hose through the drywall so I can keep the room properly sealed? I'm adding co2.


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## pluto420 (Nov 22, 2009)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Hey, sorry it took so long to get back to you. If you look at the manufacturers instructions for most hydroponic ferts, they say to run your PH at 5.6-5.8. Anything between 5.6 - 6.0 is pretty much fine though. The reason I keep mine lower is because PH tends to rise and I dont like to have to mess with it. When I knock the PH down I will shoot for 5.5 - 5.6. Less chance it will go up out of range. If you run it higher you have to mess with it more often.
> 
> Once I had PH way too high for a couple days and I had some really weird bizarre growth and do not want to experience that again so I dont take chances..
> 
> The last three 3 or 4 weeks I usually knock it up to 4 times per day.



Thanks for the answers. I lost this thread for a few days when the forum software was changed. The PH makes sense. I am going to give that try.


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## pluto420 (Nov 22, 2009)

fluffygrrrl said:


> great thread, I've been looking for a forum just for ebb n gro users. It would be nice to have an exclusive thread just for us. Thanks for the tips so far, it can save all of us some headaches. I like the idea of buying hose clamps, can you find them anywhere Pluto? I bought 18 buckets and 2 1k lights. Using GH nutes. Hydroton. I am going to make a diy ebb and flow tray system to veg separately. Currently vegging and patiently waiting until the construction of my sealed grow room is finished.
> 
> My question.... I want to keep my reservoir out of the grow room because of heat issues and also I have a perfect spot next to my utility sink to clean drain, & fill. It is approx 6 feet away from my room. Is there any problems having it that far away? Can I keep the controller with the res as well, and just add extra lines? Can I add a pipe to thread hose through the drywall so I can keep the room properly sealed? I'm adding co2.



Yes you can get the hose clamps pretty much and hardware store. I got mine at Home Depot. The size that worked for me was clamping range 3/8" to 7/8". Just dont tighten the clamp too tight. Nice and snug but if you grind it down as tight and you can get it you might cut into the tubing.

I dont see any problems with keeping your res that far away. Just need the tubing like you said. I dont have the space to put mine outside so its in the same room and only a few feet away but dont see why longer would be a problem. The main thing I think is to keep the controller and buckets the same level or having the buckets slightly higher. 

Good luck!


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## morrisgreenberg (Nov 23, 2009)

yes, thats the beauty of this system, i keep a rez approx 6ft away from the controller, i would keep the controller inside only because your going to have more feed lines going from controller to buckets, as opposed to only 2 lines from rez to controller, plus you want the lines from controller to buckets to be on the ground


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## redduke (Nov 30, 2009)

Glad to find a forum for the CAP system. This is my first grow using the system with 
32 buckets in Veg I just returned to room after a few days away and I have a few questions that I would really appreciate any help on. 

The foliage on the plants look really pale. 

Could a high PH be preventing nitrogen uptake? thus making pale green?

How many times should I have the system watering per 24 hours, in Veg?

I am using Technaflora pura vida nutrients with a PPM at around 640. Is this too high?


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## thehiena (Nov 30, 2009)

Finaly I've found a thread I can relate to, I also use the ebb n grow buckets but I haven't been able to fine tune it 100%, I drilled some more holes on the inner buckets because the roots were clogging the holes at the bottom so I made holes on the side of the inner buckets, now the roots come out of those hole too but not enough to clog them.
The only problem I have is something call the claw, I've tried diffrent nutes but always end up with the claw don''t know what causes it.
I water my plants 5 times a day, and I change the rez every 18 days and I flush for 1 day in between.


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## morrisgreenberg (Dec 2, 2009)

hey Hiena, your plants look chunky no matter what the issue is, perhaps that claw effect is from too much nitrogen? i have had it before and many others on these forums but still no definitive explanations i have found, i do know that too much N will make your leaves look so dark they almost turn blue, then the edges where its serrated turn downward, this is all that happens right before actual nute burn, and on the strains that have longer skinnier fan leaves this can happen. cleaning this system is a major pain i found that its easier to just get new hosing than clean the old ones, i use PBP and it builds up so thick that it needs to soak in hot water to get out all that sewage, plus personally i get paranoid about not being totally clean so i opt for hose replacement every cycle


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## Lovin'JK (Dec 7, 2009)

Looking to purchase an ebb n gro, this thread is helpful. Why not build your own controller and system for around 300? Any REAL Guides?


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## morrisgreenberg (Dec 8, 2009)

if not so mechanically inclined, i would pick up this system from plantlighting.com, they have it for $399, you cannot find a better deal anywhere else


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## fluffygrrrl (Dec 13, 2009)

Do you guys veg in your ebb n gro or veg separately? I bought a flood & drain table for my veg room. Can anyone recommend what they like best and the size of pot or cube needed to veg with? I was thinking of buying 4" square pots and filling w/hydroton, but I've also seen people using rockwool cubes.


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## morrisgreenberg (Dec 13, 2009)

yea the 4inch pots sound good, aslong as you use clay pellets its easy to transer to buckets, i am sure you start cuttins or seeds in some sort of RW cube, thats just fine, i veg in the buckets but i too started using a tray and 5.5 inch pots


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## doogleef (Dec 14, 2009)

I LOVE my CAP E & G. Glad to find a thread of like-minded growers. I too am running it with GH nutes + H2O2 to keep shit clean. 24site 3kw. The BEST way i've found to flush and clean the system is to use a wet/dry vac to empty the buckets completely. If not you WILL have a wet floor. 
Anyone else add an airpump to the res? 

I


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## doogleef (Dec 14, 2009)

fluffygrrrl said:


> Do you guys veg in your ebb n gro or veg separately? I bought a flood & drain table for my veg room. Can anyone recommend what they like best and the size of pot or cube needed to veg with? I was thinking of buying 4" square pots and filling w/hydroton, but I've also seen people using rockwool cubes.


I've vegged in it and used it only as a bloom kit. Either-or is fine. Don't use rockwool cubes for anything other than cloning.  

They do make 4" coco cubes that look kind of cool  4" pots of clay pebbles will be fine for your veg table. Using Lucas all the way thru?


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## fluffygrrrl (Dec 14, 2009)

doogleef said:


> I've vegged in it and used it only as a bloom kit. Either-or is fine. Don't use rockwool cubes for anything other than cloning.
> 
> They do make 4" coco cubes that look kind of cool  4" pots of clay pebbles will be fine for your veg table. Using Lucas all the way thru?


Thanks for all of your suggestions. 

I like the idea of using a wet dry vac..sounds easier than a pump. I think I will stick with hydroton in pots on my veg table. 4" or 5.5 like Morris. Rockwool seems to hold water too much for me. I also made a bubble cloner with airstones in a rubbermaid tub. I tried rockwool, hydroton and sure to grow 1.5" inserts in net pots. They looked good in it for 2 weeks, but none of them rooted. I then stuck them in a peat/vermiculite mix in regular dixie cups and they all survived and rooted! I've got to figure out what I'm doing wrong with this cloner.


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## doogleef (Dec 14, 2009)

Bubble-cloners keep things too wet most of the time. That's y i still use oldschool rockwool cubes, hand-watered. To increase your success rate on your cloner I would find a cycle-timer for it so it runs 5 mins on 5 mins off. If the stem is constantly wet it has no incentive to root. Good luck!


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## morrisgreenberg (Dec 14, 2009)

just place your cloning/seed start media 1/2 inch above bucket flood line, never have to worry about wet RW again, i myself am big on aero cloning but still run RW, nothing more trust worthy to me. as for the bubble cloner issues, are you sticking stems directly into the water? i believe the proper way of doing this is to have the stem tips just above the water line and have the bursting air bubbles misting the stem tips, once they root they will sit in the water and be just fine, or you may need a stronger air pump


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## smokingrubber (Dec 18, 2009)

Love the thread. I'm just getting started. I'm interested in any info you have on disifecting the system. Ive read Im supposed to do it every month or so?







I'm going to tear this down and upgrade to 24 buckets - 2000kw - 4x8 tent in about 2 weeks. Stay tuned.


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## doogleef (Dec 19, 2009)

I use H2O2 to keep my rez and controller bucket nice and clean. I use 2 ml/l of 35% h202 every 3-4 days and it stays very clean and bacteria free. I just finished dumping and filling the rez for the first time in a month (I use Lucas with addbacks) and there was no bad odor or nasties on the bottom of the tank. Love it. This can, of course, only be used in a sterile, in-organic feed. H2O2 does not care about your organic "beneficial bacteria" and kills it. Those things don't have any place in a hydroponics setup anyway IMO, but to each their own. 

To anyone reading this thread wondering if this system is worth the $$. The answer is yes. I considered doing a controller bucket DIY using one of the guides I found online but to do it to really match with dual vales on both high and low water marks makes it a real pain in the neck. CAP makes a great product here and the controller is worth the price of admission. For all you ebb/flow guys moaning about the lost height from your tables and reservoir, Chk this out!! 

I will say that the expansion pots can easily be recreated using everyday stuff found in any hardware store so only get those if ya got some $$ to burn. 

Good Luck!


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## morrisgreenberg (Dec 19, 2009)

hygrozyme works perfect in this system, for me hygrozyme is a must have, but for this unit it helps big time, since more often than not you will have roots find its way into the water lines and break off, any dead/dying organic matter will be dissolved by the hygrozyme and is good to go with organic based ferts like PBP and FN


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## johndoecangrow (Dec 19, 2009)

I use this ebb n grow system and I use the General Hydro keep it simple nutrients also called the flora series part ;A flora micro part; B flora grow and part;C flora bloom I start with rooted clones and my nutrient schedule as followed week;1 part;a=2tspn per gallon part;B=2tspn per gallon part;C=1tspn per gallon 
week;2 part;A =2tspn part;B= 2tspn part;C=1tspn
week;3 part;A=2tspn part;B=2tspn part;c=1tspn
week;4 part;A=2tspn part;B=2tspn part;C =1tspn
start flowering start flowering
week;5 part;A=2tspn part;B=2tspn part;C=2tspn
week;6 part;A=2tspn part;B=2tspn part;C=2tspn
week;6 part;A=2tspn part;B=2tspn part;C=2tspn
week;7 part;A=2tspn part;B=2tspn part;C=2tspn
week;8 part;A -2tspn part;B-1.5tspn part;C=2.5tspn
week;9 part;A=2tspn part;B=1.5tspn part;C 2.5tspn
week;10 part:A=2tspn part;B=1.5tspn part;C=2.5tspn
week;11 part;A=1.5tspn part;B=1tspn part;C=2.5tspn
week;12= part;a=1.5tspn part;B=.5tspn part;C=2.5tspn
week;13 part;A=1tspn part;B=0 part;C=2tspn
should be close to done 
my actual feeding schedule is week1=4min on feed every 45 min off time
week2=4min on 1.5 hours off time
week3=4min on 2hours off time
week4=4min on 2.5hours off time
 week5 threw week13=4min on 3hours off time
hope this helps because it took me years to figure this out on my own GOOD LUCK


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## smokingrubber (Dec 19, 2009)

doogleef said:


> I use H2O2 to keep my rez and controller bucket nice and clean. I use 2 ml/l of 35% h202 every 3-4 days and it stays very clean and bacteria free. I just finished dumping and filling the rez for the first time in a month (I use Lucas with addbacks) and there was no bad odor or nasties on the bottom of the tank. Love it. This can, of course, only be used in a sterile, in-organic feed. H2O2 does not care about your organic "beneficial bacteria" and kills it. Those things don't have any place in a hydroponics setup anyway IMO, but to each their own.
> 
> To anyone reading this thread wondering if this system is worth the $$. The answer is yes. I considered doing a controller bucket DIY using one of the guides I found online but to do it to really match with dual vales on both high and low water marks makes it a real pain in the neck. CAP makes a great product here and the controller is worth the price of admission. For all you ebb/flow guys moaning about the lost height from your tables and reservoir, Chk this out!!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip on the H2o2. I'm using GH full recipe. They have some product I'm supposed to disifect with. Should I dump and clean the barrel, then refill and run the disifect, then dump and clean again, then refill again and nute? Thats a lot of wasted water. Unless I don't use the RO water for the disinfect cycle? What do I do with the plants while I'm disifecting. They're a pain in the ass to set down with all those roots.

I too am very happy with the CAP system. For anyone NOT wanting to use the pots can simply build a frame for your flood table (3½" thick 2x4) without legs. Set the CAP controller on the ground and plumb it up like it was connected to a pot. Minor adjustments to the heigth of the controller will adjust the flood level of your table. Simple way to get all the height out of your tent and still have a traditional flood table.


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## johndoecangrow (Dec 19, 2009)

i USE THE CAP 2GALLON PLANTER BUCKETS BUT THAT IS IT.I DON'T USE A CONTROLLER BUCKET


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## doogleef (Dec 19, 2009)

I run just a few gallons of water in to rinse and then pump it back down the drain. NO need to refill totally. Good idea on the table substitution. 

The controller bucket is the heart of the system.


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## mrduke (Dec 19, 2009)

smokingrubber do you run a table like this? do you have any pics of one sounds awsome i'd love to see it in action.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 19, 2009)

mrduke said:


> smokingrubber do you run a table like this? do you have any pics of one sounds awsome i'd love to see it in action.


No, I have the buckets going. (pic of my setup is a few posts up)

My friend and I were talking, and he said "too bad you can't use a regular flood table." I thought about it and realized YOU CAN. You can cover more sqft with the buckets . . . per controller. That doesn't mean you can't have two controllers running two tables off the same res. Stagger the floods and viola. I will have to chew on it a little more before my next cycle, might build it. MIGHT. I don't have much to complain about with the buckets so far.


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## thehiena (Dec 29, 2009)

I was once advised that I should turn my ebb n gro system into bubbler buckets or DWC, anybody have an idea about this>? thank you.


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## doogleef (Dec 30, 2009)

thehiena said:


> I was once advised that I should turn my ebb n gro system into bubbler buckets or DWC, anybody have an idea about this>? thank you.


Why on earth would you do that?  

The controller bucket giving you the ability to ebb/flow these buckets is the coolest thing about the whole system. Making it DWC would ruin the intent.


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## morrisgreenberg (Dec 30, 2009)

i agree, although it is an easy process, all you need to do is hook up the buckets, make a controller, get net pot lids and some strong air pumps, but i never liked the idea of roots in water all day, its just me, the whole point of the cap system is when it drains the buckets suck oxygen through the clay pellets, this is the main reason you will see much better performance if instead you were using a flood table


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## thehiena (Dec 30, 2009)

Thank you guys, now heres another question, these system has 2 gallon buckets so how tall the plant should be?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 30, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Love the thread. I'm just getting started. I'm interested in any info you have on disifecting the system. Ive read Im supposed to do it every month or so?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was me 12 days ago.
And now . . .








I got the 4x9 tent yesterday but Im waiting on the mail for some other key parts before I can expand. 

Diggin the pots  and I'll love the controller a lot more when I figure out where to put it. I'm planning on building a small pedistool for the dehumidifier to sit on. I'll place the dehumidifier *over the controller* so that it can drain into the controller. That water will automatically get pumped back to the reservior. Has anyone here done that before and can offer any advise? I will run to a bucket first and check the tds, but I'm pretty sure it'll be pure.

What is the optimum spacing for these buckets? How much canopy can they handle each? For me, this run will be 8 pots stretched out (gonna merk the babies) in the 4x9. That's over 4 sqft per plant. Under 2 1000w Hortilux. I've been playing with spacing diagrams on autocad. I just dont know what the optimum spacing is for plants in a 2 gal bucket?


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## thehiena (Dec 30, 2009)

Those plants are fucking beautiful, can you gives any info on how you vegging those beautiful plants and what strain are those?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 30, 2009)

thehiena said:


> Those plants are fucking beautiful, can you gives any info on how you vegging those beautiful plants and what strain are those?


Thank you. 

Im vegging them using the ebb & grow (duh) and a 1000w Warm Sun MH. Im using the full recipe suggested by these bloodsuckers http://www.generalhydroponics.com/calculator/index.html (plus a couple extra things) and flooding every 3 hrs (during day). Rez temp is a constant 70f and the ph between 5.8 - 6.1. Thats it. Oh, and Im sucking about 300-400 cfm (800cfm max) through a Can66 filter and an air cooled hood.

The plants on the left are all A-Train by TH Seeds and the plants on the right are Blue Hash by Dinafem. I mauled a couple so its not all their fault  The sativa in the middle-front is Lemon Skunk by DNA and there is a LA Woman in there too. Those were freebies from Attitude. That beast in the front is a Blue Hash. ATrain seems just a stout. 

You are welcome to follow my journal to find out if I fuck it all up.


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## morrisgreenberg (Dec 30, 2009)

plant like to get bushy in this system, lots of side branching, one thing about size is in hydro pot size doesnt matter as much as if it were soil, 4footers finished is perfect, 3-4 weeks of veg with a good topping is even better. you can top the plants at 2 weeks into veg, this will give side branching to join the canopy and you will have a great yield, by accident you should be looking at 70g dried, dialed in and strain i dont see how you cant get 6oz per pot. since they get bushy you might want to give them space, it looks like its getting crowded in there so i guess its all about your desired size of plant and such, also for your next run depending on if you have flimsy branches you mitgh want to consider tomato cages, those look rock solid so it dont look like it needs support


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## doogleef (Dec 30, 2009)

I've grown 6ft trees in 2 gallon pots of dirt. You could grow to the ceiling in these 2 gallon dro buckets.


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## morrisgreenberg (Dec 30, 2009)

only thing i hate about this system is i like to clean it thoro between runs, i take it apart from soup to nuts, and cleaning the clay is right behind it but you can take it from me nothing outperforms aeroponics and yet i still ditched it for this system. set it and forget it


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## smokingrubber (Dec 30, 2009)

morrisgreenberg said:


> only thing i hate about this system is i like to clean it thoro between runs, i take it apart from soup to nuts, and cleaning the clay is right behind it but you can take it from me nothing outperforms aeroponics and yet i still ditched it for this system. set it and forget it


Me too. I plan to take it apart, clean everything and simply replace all of the hosing and hydroton. 30 bucks for 100ft of hose. 80 bucks for 2 new bags of rocks. Just part of the cost imo. The roots are crawling into the hoses and the easiest way to clean all that is to cut them off. Measure out new pieces based on the old pieces and viola.

They are getting cramped! Thats why I'm doubling the sqft next week. Then probably 1 more week of veg just to let everyone fill in and BAM we're off and flowerin'


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## morrisgreenberg (Dec 31, 2009)

they look amazing...still have yet to see anyone with this system have a shitty run. personally my advice to you is pick out your keeper strains and if running multiples try to pick out ones that are compatible, ya know like feeding tendancies, your nutes may burn one strain and you wont be able to get all the potential from another


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## obie83 (Jan 4, 2010)

just ordered this same system with the 6 bucket add on and was wondering what size grow tent should i go with and would 2000watt hps be enough light for 18 buckets or should i just buy another one. trying to get at least 3lbs per crop. any help would be appericated. going with NL x Big bud


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## smokingrubber (Jan 4, 2010)

I suggest the GrowLab GL145L 4'-9" x 9'-6" w/ 2k. 18 buckets will be enough imo. I'm using 8 buckets in that size tent and I expect 2lbs.

Check my journal.


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## Don Cirilo (Jan 6, 2010)

What do u guys think of placing one of those flat airstones in each bucket
Also GTS how tall did tour plants get? I thought those 2 gallons were not going to be large enough for tall plants so i got 5 gallon buckets. Now im starting to believe it was not necessary


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## doogleef (Jan 6, 2010)

No need for a stone in each bucket. The flood cycle refreshes that water every few hours. You should have a few large stones and fairly big pump in your rez tho. I cheat and use h2o2 instead. ::


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## 1ostbo1z (Jan 6, 2010)

blueybong said:


> Great idea! I'm interested in hearing from experienced users.
> 
> I did a DIY control bucket and I'm currently using it as a recirculating DWC. I'm following Lucas Formula which has been very stable. I'm flowering with Botanicare Pro Bloom & CalMag.
> 
> Next grow will be a true E&G.


hey blueybong i would like to hear and see more pics of your set up ( recirculating dwc ).

if ne one wants to build there own controller here is a link to the aquahub kit. basically its the brain to control the whole system: http://www.aquahub.com/store/product26.html
im currently growing in sunshine (handwatering) and that shit is a real real real pain so would like to switch to the cap EnG


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## 1ostbo1z (Jan 6, 2010)

also what i dont get is the res pumps water to the controller and how does the controller gets water to the 12 buckets or whatever.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 6, 2010)

Gravity fills all of the buckets. They are all connected at the bottom by hose. When you pump water into the controller it leaks out to all of the buckets and they all rise evenly because they are all connected. Same thing when it drains, if you remove water from the controller, it drains them all to the lowest point.


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## 1ostbo1z (Jan 6, 2010)

thxs smokin well ill have to try it just bought me a cheap controller for 15 bucks ill have pics up of the whole thing if i can find a plug to this darn camera to the com


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## 1ostbo1z (Jan 6, 2010)

actually i have another question if u dont mind: so if the pump in the res takes 15mins to fill the controller and all 12 buckets that timer cuts off and then the timer in the controller bucket turns on to drain them back to the res. is that correct?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 6, 2010)

It stays in "drain" mode 90% of the time. Once every 3 or 4 hours it switched from "drain" to "fill" and it floods the controller. There are float switches inside the controller that tell the pumps when to shut off. Since it takes a moment for all of the buckets to equal out, the fill pump is on/off for a few minutes then the whole thing sits full for about 10 minutes. Then it switches back to "drain" mode and as long as there is water in the controller the brain will try to pump it back to the res. It really only takes about 5 minutes to fill the buckets. Less if they are all full of plants! *Be sure to install a syphon break on the "fill" line* or the pump will never shut off and it will send all 55 gallons out to the controller!


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## shnkrmn (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm waiting on delivery of my CAP system. Meanwhile, I'm glad to see there's a unified thread where you can find all the people using it. I'll be looking over every journal I can get linked to here.

I'm switching over from Hempy which I've been doing for the last two years. Time to get automated (plus I'm tired of dealing with perlite). I'm concentrating on getting twelve really good clones to put in the system for their first run.


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## 1ostbo1z (Jan 6, 2010)

thxs again smokin' but i just came home today from getting that setup up: i was just running a try with (2) 5 gal buckets. the controller that i bought for 15 bucks was not what i thought it was. its one of those hydrofarm controllers one wonder it looked so simple at the hydro store. cause before i bought it i was wondering how the shit worked so i blew in the inline where there float valve was and lifted the float valve up and to my surprise it stopped the air i was blowing. amazed i bought it and now finished up building it like the cap ebb n gro system the darn thing worked but couldn't fill half of the bucket. so now i really have to buy the aquahub control kit.


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## Don Cirilo (Jan 7, 2010)

Does the standing water at the bottom of the buckets bothers anybody? Thats why I suggested air stones in each bucket. Again, given proper light, how tall can plants get in those 2 gallon buckets and what is a ball park figure for maximum yield per plant?


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## doogleef (Jan 7, 2010)

Like i said, it refreshes that water every flood so its not a big deal. Plenty of o2 in that water. You can raise the inner pot up 1/2" or so by tossing a piece of pvc in the bottom if you really want to. Maximum yield per plant is about lighting and veg time, not system. This setup is designed to grow 5-6' tall plants with no problems. That's kinda the point. If you wanted to grow smaller plants a flood table is a lot cheaper.


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## justsmoking (Jan 9, 2010)

I just switched over from soil to the ebb and grow 12pot setup !! I'm used to using all the fox farm nutes so I'll stay with them only I'll use the grow big hydro . I have 12 Jack berets in the clone dome hope they all root well!!! I'm so glad to find this thread because of all the ? About ebb and grow + I've never grown hydro. I picked my ebb and grow 12pot complete setup on horticultural source.com for $399.00. And it came with a complete bc nute pack for free.. Cool find right!!! I can't Waite till it gets here!!!


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## justsmoking (Jan 9, 2010)

What do you mean instal somthing at the fill line or the whole 55gallons will come out? Is that not how it works and I thought it was called a complete for a reason that used to mean it's all there.


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## doogleef (Jan 9, 2010)

There is a break fitting that goes on the fill line. Just follow the instructions and u should be OK.


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## justsmoking (Jan 9, 2010)

Cool I just want to make sure to have everything. $ is not an issue so if you can think of anything i'm all ears


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## smokingrubber (Jan 9, 2010)

I bought small stands to put under the pots. This allows more water to drain but reduces the fill height. My stands are upside-down plastic pot holders. Youi know the thing you put under soil plants to catch water. That raises the pots about 1½" inches, and everything is working perfectly.

When you get your system, unpack it and roll out the hose. The hose is tightly coiled and fitting it to the pots in that condition is difficult. Let it uncurl and stretch out for a day or two.

Figure out how much water you'll be needing and install a shut-off valve for your RO system. This will prevent floods.

If you fill the barrel, the included nuted are mostly used on the very first fill up. If you follow the recipe, a couple bottles will be completely empty and a couple are untouched depending on plant stage. Plan on buying new nutrients soon. I'm using GH's 3-part line. I like! But they are expensive compared to some other brands. Do your homework.


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## blueybong (Jan 9, 2010)

Update: I'm now @ Day 94 flowering(Thai/Sativa) and I have NOT changed out my 32 gal rez. I'm following Lucas Formula with excellent results. The plant is healthy with beautiful full branches of bud.
I top off daily with straight H20 and every 8 days or so I'll add back, keeping the EC around 1.6(800ppm).
I'm using Botanicare Pro Bloom w/CalMag. I have two airstones in the main rez.


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## justsmoking (Jan 9, 2010)

Are you still talking about the ebb and grow system complete? Shouldn't that come complete with everything it needs? What are u talking about with this shut off valve?


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## doogleef (Jan 9, 2010)

The Techna "Recipe for success" kit that comes with this system is just sneaky way to try to make you buy more pretty bottles. I;m currently using GH flora and Lucas formula but wull soon be switching to dynagro.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 9, 2010)

doogleef said:


> The Techna "Recipe for success" kit that comes with this system is just sneaky way to try to make you buy more pretty bottles. I;m currently using GH flora and Lucas formula but wull soon be switching to dynagro.


Wow, that's exactly my plan too.

Lucas not working out?? Or just trying something different?


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## doogleef (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm going to try something with a little more Nitrogen and Micro nutes. The Lucas blend of 8ml/gallon of FloraNovaBloom has treated me very well for a long time now but on occasion, depending on strain, I get some early yellowing of lowers and fan drop. Some more N in the mix should fix that. I debated on just adding an some bloodmeal pellets to the bottom of the tank for the extra N but that does not give me a lot of control. 

Dynagro is cheaper, more Nitrogen, and more complete. I'm going to try it.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 9, 2010)

justsmoking said:


> Are you still talking about the ebb and grow system complete? Shouldn't that come complete with everything it needs? What are u talking about with this shut off valve?


"Complete" is a relative term imo. The shut off valve is for a seperate Reverse Osmosis system you should probably use to fill the reservior with. Tap water has clorine and other minerals in it that you have no control over. When filling a 55 gallon barell the shut-off valve is a handy thing incase you forget the water is running.

Do you have a nutrient monitor and a reservior heater also?


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## doogleef (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm lucky, my tap is about 50ppm so no RO for me. Is your fill water ice cold? What's the heater for? Room temp should be fine giver proper aeration. If anything, I'd think a water chiiler (cold water holds more o2) would be more relevant, especially in the summer months. 


I'm debating on using #2 smart pots and coco in my system. Switching from my current perpetual, all on 1 feed system to a feed for the phase - grow tress kit. hmmmm


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## smokingrubber (Jan 9, 2010)

Optimum nutrient uptake with 70 degree sausa water. They like their warm bath first thing in the morning  Minimizes stress. My garage floor keeps my res at 60 and I use the heater to keep it at 70. I haven't heard any complaints!


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## justsmoking (Jan 10, 2010)

I've got a heater as well though I'm not too sure how I'm going to fill up the tank I was thinking mabey a hose out of the sink then I could fill it my self? I checked my water out of the tap and it's at 200 pmm. Is that bad?


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## justsmoking (Jan 10, 2010)

200 ppm is what I meant


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## smokingrubber (Jan 10, 2010)

200 is not bad at all. I would probably use it. Mine comes out at 450ppm. If you use tap water you should let it stand for 24 hrs before watering. The Clorine will evaporate by then.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 10, 2010)

for the guy who wants to try dyno-gro, i have never flowered with but, but to me it is the best chem fert i have tried hands down, very cheap and a little goes a long way, not as salty like GH and BC stuff, very easy and perfectly balanced stuff, also if you want to get extra micro's in your mix you guys can try botanicares hydroplex, its a bloom booster 0-6-10 with all the micros that PBP doesnt have, i believe it a must with the PBP line, but i use PBP/calmag/fox farms powders for micros


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## xceptional (Jan 10, 2010)

I LOVE THIS THREAD! i'm a E&G user as well and I'm 19 days into flower. 
*GreenThumbSucker* your journal inspired me and has been a great guide for me! most of my friends are on another site so my journal is over there

Xceptional's #5's Grow Journal




i'm running 12 buckets
1k in a magnum xxxl hood, one more 1k in a magnum is on order and adding next week.
10 x 10 room
Lucas Flora formula kinda (1 - 2 ratio Micro to Bloom added daily to reach the desired ppm)
35% food grade h2o2 was added every day at 1 ts per day through veg but i haven't been adding it as much in flower every 3-4 days.
no real issues besides a power outage for 10 hours because i pushed my circuit to the limit with a 400w mh in my mom/veg tent. 

i would NOT raise my buckets. i think that bottom 1-2" in the buckets is a life saver in a power outage and i don't see what it could hurt. most of the roots are out of the water anywyas so they are getting more then enough air.

i do NOT run a bubbler in my res or buckets. i'm adding a 305gph pump to my res that i'll just be dropping in there and leaving on to circulate the res. i would add a bubbler but House Garden says to not airaite the res and i plan on running Aqua Flakes the next cycle. 

two weeks before the flush i'm adding 1 sachet of shooting powder to my res to see what it does!

*a tip* a $4 paint mixer attachment on a power drill works wonders for mixing the res to check the ph or ppm afer adding nutes/ph adjustment. 

a aquarium floating thermometer is a great addition to the res. just let it float in the res and grab it out to check the temp. just don't be a retard and forget to remove the glass thermometer from the rest before using the paint mixer and shatter it in your res like i did once lol.

here is some porn from the last week.....


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## xceptional (Jan 10, 2010)

anyone found a affordable hose that doesn't kink to replace this hose with? when growing 40"+ plants it's hard to see the hoses on some of them lol. i'm medical so i only run a limited number of plants which is why i grow them so big.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 10, 2010)

The hydro store sold me 100ft of hose for $30. I'm 9 days into flower (no bud porn just yet). Welcome to RIU.

I just bought a paint mixer friday and I haven't used it yet. Good tip.


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## xceptional (Jan 10, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> The hydro store sold me 100ft of hose for $30. I'm 9 days into flower (no bud porn just yet). Welcome to RIU.
> 
> I just bought a paint mixer friday and I haven't used it yet. Good tip.



Thanks Smokingrubber. i've had a account for a while and lurked for a very long time but hey I'll start hanging out here some more from now on! 

i was able to get more hose from the hydro store as well but I'm looking for the kind of hose that has reinforcement designed into the hose that prevents it from kinking. kind of like those white plastic things CAP throws in with the system but infused into the hose and on all of it not just for the res lines.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 10, 2010)

Oh, well it's just 1/2" hose available at any hardware store. They have the white ribbed kind in the back on rolls. Probably not $30 for 100ft though. If it's kinking, cut it and install a 90 right there.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 11, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> The hydro store sold me 100ft of hose for $30. I'm 9 days into flower (no bud porn just yet). Welcome to RIU.
> 
> I just bought a paint mixer friday and I haven't used it yet. Good tip.


I currently mix my nutrients in a 32 gallon trash barrel. I throw a small water pump in the bottom which mixes it up pretty fast and I leave it running for the time the solution is in there, sometimes a couple of days. I can easily pump it out into buckets for watering too (irrelevant in ebb and grow, I know )


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## xceptional (Jan 11, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Oh, well it's just 1/2" hose available at any hardware store. They have the white ribbed kind in the back on rolls. Probably not $30 for 100ft though. If it's kinking, cut it and install a 90 right there.



nice i didn't know they had kink free hose in the hardware store. I'm going to stop by and take a look at it i think i may upgrade to it at some point because i really like the idea of moving my pots around all the time fitting my plants together like a puzzle.


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## doogleef (Jan 11, 2010)

While you are at the hardware store, grab a few hand-fulls of 1/2" end plugs while you are there. They come in real handy for capping ends of lines when moving things around.


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## mrduke (Jan 12, 2010)

do you guys ever have problems with leaks at the point where the connector enters the bucket? It seems i have 2 maybe 3 pots that leak just a few drops a minute every time it floods. after a couple weeks it stops due to sediment buildup, but then when i flush and run threw some floraclean it will start dripping again. anyone use hose clamps on all the fitting?


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## rileythereputics (Jan 12, 2010)

I hope didn't miss this answer earlier in the thread, but what have you all been doing in the E&G system when starting from seeds? I am about to start some Northern Lights and White Rhino from seeds. Any tips for me? Thanks!


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## boxing119 (Jan 12, 2010)

i just hooked up my ebb and grow for the first time and i cant seem to get the buckets to drain back into the resivor, the pump sounds like it is running fine i even switched the pump from the resivor to the control bucket to see if it was the pump but that still would not work, any suggestions or thoughts, please help


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## rileythereputics (Jan 12, 2010)

i had the same problem. The first time that you run it, you have to prime the pump. I did it by sucking some water through the return hose with my mouth. Once i did that it, got some water in the line and turned on the pump, it worked just fine.


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## boxing119 (Jan 12, 2010)

rileythereputics said:


> i had the same problem. The first time that you run it, you have to prime the pump. I did it by sucking some water through the return hose with my mouth. Once i did that it, got some water in the line and turned on the pump, it worked just fine.


i actually tried to pull water through by sucking on it to, i got a mouth full but the pump wouldnt do anything after, any other ideas?


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## boxing119 (Jan 12, 2010)

please help! i can not get my CAP ebband grow to drain back into the resivor, any ideas


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## smokingrubber (Jan 12, 2010)

Is there a kink in the hose? Is the pump suctioned to the wall and face down in the water? I assume your sure it's plugged into the correct socket and *all* of the float valves work. You can test the pumps by fiddling with the floats.

You're sure the pump works? Try it in your kitchen sink and test it's height limits. Make sure it has enough oomph to get water up a hose 4ft high.


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## Quemado (Jan 12, 2010)

Is there anyone who has had a success with the Sure to Grow Inserts???? I was really sold on trying it out.


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## justsmoking (Jan 12, 2010)

No I hear the stg sure to grow inserts cause problems with gunk on top later on? Hydroton clay is the best for this system + the buckets need to be just a bit higher than the control for proper drain and prime the pump just like any other water pump sounds like to me  this site is great. Keep up the conversation on ebb and grow


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## L.A.RAIDER (Jan 12, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> please help! i can not get my CAP ebband grow to drain back into the resivor, any ideas


 
now and then mine doesnt drain back into the res. either. it only seems to do it on the first watering cycle of the day. SO I un plug the controler bucket and plugit right back in, it should start draing then.

If you find out whats causing it let me know. but this is a temporary fix thats working for me until I find the reason its not draing back in everytime or just return it under its warantee.

let me know if you have any luck


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## smokingrubber (Jan 12, 2010)

It's hard to get the hose on the pump. It probably just came off 



I did a video of my ebb and grow setup. Check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5gU8EDqDkg
Please rate it


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## Quemado (Jan 13, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> It's hard to get the hose on the pump. It probably just came off
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice setup. How have your yields looking?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 14, 2010)

Quemado said:


> Nice setup. How have your yields looking?


Thank you. This is my first grow, so no yield data is actually available. I can tell you that I expect 2½-3½ lbs. Follow my journal and find out if I'm right.


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## justjr27 (Jan 14, 2010)

hi to everyone hope all is good ive been contempating growing like this for a while now and finally decieded to go for it I have grown in soil before but if I have too I well never grow again lol. Anyways this is what I have in mind in two rooms 40 5 gallon home depot buckets, hydroton inside the buckets,32 gallon res., 10 gallon control bucket. 3 1000 watt hps in one room and 3 1000 watt hps in the other. venus flytrap is the strian vegged for 4 weeks 

my question is
on what time intervals do I flood and how long do the pots stay flood for
how many pots does a 50lt hydroton bag fill
what nutes are the best for this kind of system
And I have gotten 2oz per plant in soil with this light setup before will I yield alot more with this system


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## shnkrmn (Jan 14, 2010)

I think you need to check your arithmetic.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 15, 2010)

justjr27 said:


> hi to everyone hope all is good ive been contempating growing like this for a while now and finally decieded to go for it I have grown in soil before but if I have too I well never grow again lol. Anyways this is what I have in mind in two rooms 40 5 gallon home depot buckets, hydroton inside the buckets,32 gallon res., 10 gallon control bucket. 3 1000 watt hps in one room and 3 1000 watt hps in the other. venus flytrap is the strian vegged for 4 weeks
> 
> my question is
> on what time intervals do I flood and how long do the pots stay flood for
> ...


5 gal buckets and 10 gal control unit are not included in the CAP ebb & grow system. That's the topic of this thread btw. Other than that, how are you going to fill FOURTY buckets with 32 gallons of water? 

40 plants huh? With 2 gal pots, 4sqft per plant works okay but 9sqft per would be lush. With 5 gallon pots, I think 16-25 sqft per plant (and 8ft ceilings) could be needed. 

1 bag of hydroton will fill 8 2gal pots (16gal total), so it will fill about 3½ 5 gallon pots.

I use GH nutes.


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## justjr27 (Jan 15, 2010)

thanks for the reply smkinrubber Yea Im making my own system So you think i can use maybe 2 gallon buckets and still grow a big enough plant during veg to get at least 3 oz per plant. And how big of a rez do I need for 40 pots that size and what times do I flood and drain


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## doogleef (Jan 15, 2010)

2 gallon hydro pot is PLENTY big for a 6' tall plant. It's not soil.


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## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 15, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> i just hooked up my ebb and grow for the first time and i cant seem to get the buckets to drain back into the resivor, the pump sounds like it is running fine i even switched the pump from the resivor to the control bucket to see if it was the pump but that still would not work, any suggestions or thoughts, please help


Mine does that when I start a crop. When this happens it is because of air in the pump. Turn the pump upside down and sideways under the solution to get the air bubbles out.


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## mrduke (Jan 15, 2010)

anyone know where locally i could get buckets of the same size? tried homo depot and lowes but they only have 5g. wehre can i get 2g?the expansion kit is like 80 bucks F that for 12 2 gal pots


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## Jimmy Luffnan (Jan 16, 2010)

Sup Ebb n' Flowr's,

Was going to start a new thread but thought I might ask here...

I run a recirculating system and always keep my EC at 1.0 for my flowering period (keep salts down and save pump clog) and flush at 2 weeks prior to harvest.

Some people, including Heath Robinson, dont flush at the end of the grow because they believe with low EC levels a flush is not required...

I'm a little torn on the idea because I believe in 'clean as possible' smoke.

What do you guys think?


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## doogleef (Jan 16, 2010)

With a low N food you can get away without it. In fact, you can use a high N food in bloom and as long as you trim really close you won't get a funky burn. All the minerals are stored in the foliage material, not the flowers. Taste is about trim, dry, and cure. Save the flushing for your toilet


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 16, 2010)

mrduke said:


> anyone know where locally i could get buckets of the same size? tried homo depot and lowes but they only have 5g. wehre can i get 2g?the expansion kit is like 80 bucks F that for 12 2 gal pots


i got some from there one time thats it, but you may be better off buying the extension, think about it, your going to need a hole saw to make a good hole, the grommets and connectors are like .50 each plus spray paint the buckets, they had the 2gallons for under $3, so figure around $7 per site plus time and labor, the hole saw itself if you dont have one is like $20 and it doesnt even come with a bit to connect to your drill, if you do get one the size to fit a 1/2 inch grommet is 3/4inch hole saw, provided you use GH or raindrip grommets


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 16, 2010)

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UJSNLH6Ow2w&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UJSNLH6Ow2w&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 16, 2010)

i just found this thread.. thought itd be easier to just show what i have going on then try to explain it all... lol


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 16, 2010)

suppose i can fill in a little more info....

i feed 4x a day... 15 minutes...

i use
GH 3 part flora line 
AN grandma engys F1 honey
bontanicare liquid karma
GH floralicious grow and bloom.. but i'll prolly cut these out when i run out
AN carbload.. isnt worth the money.. just got a small bottle to try
AN big bud
AN bud blood
AN bud candy

i dont have issues with the roots sitting in the nute solution that remains in the sites... so i dont have the drain bucket lifted at all...

i try to run a 6.0 ph... normally stays in the 5.8 to 6.2 range tho...


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## boxing119 (Jan 16, 2010)

so my ebb and grow is up in running now with mostly trainwreck clones my 4x8 tent is around 84 degrees should it be cooler? i am using 2x 1000w hps cool tubes i have the rez out of the tent, i am feeding 3 times a day 15 min each and am using the GH line. i have a few questions, what should the temp be? how can i lower it if it becomes to high? i have an inline fan 435 c.f.m. with a stand fan going at all times i just cant seem to get my temp low enough with both lights running and the tent zipped up also i see alot of people are using H202 and does this help? how much do you use? also i see your supposed to flush the plants every time i change the rez, what do you mean by this. any help or tips will be greatly appreciated


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## boxing119 (Jan 16, 2010)

also one of my lights is shinning brighter than the other i have tried using different outlets and just can seem to get it as bright as the other one, any suggestions? also whats the coolest i sholuld ever let my tent go because the temp seems to drop at night when the lights go off


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## doogleef (Jan 16, 2010)

simpsonsampson420 said:


> [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UJSNLH6Ow2w&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UJSNLH6Ow2w&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


  Rep+

Very nice ladies from seed. Great use of the space. Keep em growin!


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 16, 2010)

thank you.. i will definitely be keeping things going and trying to improve where i can... your more than welcome to follow along in my journal.. links in my sig..


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 17, 2010)

love the vid/setup sampson, thats the one thing i hate about 1000's, cant take full advantage of air cooled hoods, i always used to get bleaching, anyhows i run chillers too and i got my holesaw and made a hole in the lid and one on the side of the rez for the input/output and ran grommets, i once had 55 gallon of oh shit on the floor cus the chiller line fell out the res


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 17, 2010)

i have had a few spills myself.. a chiller line dropped out of the res... the return line from the timer bucket to the res came off... i think i have had 3 large "floods" like that.. but i have my things locked down to avoid that now...

my hoods and lights stay plenty cool.. heat is not the issue.. i just have 750w lights close enough to the lights that some actually touch the glass of the reflectors now... i know i should/could back them off.. but they seem to be doing on.. why fix what doesnt seem apparently broken.. other than not being bright green they look great! but it also closer to their ending cycle which im sure has something to play as a part in the entire scheme of things..


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## GHOPZZ (Jan 17, 2010)

what is a good size tent for the ebb and grow 12 site setup? and is a water chilelr necessary for this set-up? i was thinking of two 600watthps on a twelve site, would that be a good amount of light?


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 17, 2010)

oh certainly im sure its cool enough, but all those lumens, at 750w probably over 125k of lumens concentrated over a small area is what gives light bleaching


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 17, 2010)

its definitely a lot of light for a small space... i think in the future ill keep the lights up a little higher.. i am anxious to see what happens when i turn them up to 1000 or the super setting...


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## algeezy509 (Jan 17, 2010)

L.A.RAIDER said:


> now and then mine doesnt drain back into the res. either. it only seems to do it on the first watering cycle of the day. SO I un plug the controler bucket and plugit right back in, it should start draing then.
> 
> If you find out whats causing it let me know. but this is a temporary fix thats working for me until I find the reason its not draing back in everytime or just return it under its warantee.
> 
> let me know if you have any luck


 And this is why I insist on making my own system everytime so that way i full understand what is going on and how the sytem works i'm not calling you a dumbass this is just my preference do as you wish just keep what i said in mind plus it's way cheaper $50.


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## algeezy509 (Jan 17, 2010)

hey what's up simpson, sounds like things been groin good


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 17, 2010)

Originally Posted by *L.A.RAIDER*  
_now and then mine doesnt drain back into the res. either. it only seems to do it on the first watering cycle of the day. SO I un plug the controler bucket and plugit right back in, it should start draing then._

_If you find out whats causing it let me know. but this is a temporary fix thats working for me until I find the reason its not draing back in everytime or just return it under its warantee._

_let me know if you have any luck_


_as for people who use chillers with a seperate pump we would know this pump failure issue, if you allow the res to get low you can get an air bubble into the hose, these mag pumps arent strong enough to blow them out, if this happens to you try sucking the hose with your mouth to pull the fluid, you need the cyphoning effect, your going to probably get a mouthful at first_


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## xceptional (Jan 17, 2010)

how big is everyones rootmass on their plants? I'm in my first cycle in my ebb and grow and i expected the roots to be filling the bottom bucket but they are not. when i moved the plants into the system the roots were about 12-14&quot; grown in a aeroponic system. i had 2 late bloomers that i put in that only had about 3&quot; roots. the ones that i put in late with 3&quot; roots have few long strands out of the first bucket about 9-10&quot; the 42&quot; plants that had very long roots only have about 3&quot; roots out of the top bucket but every hole has at least 5-6 roots coming out of it. they don't seem to be choked in the holes there is still space in each hole so i assume they have the room to continue getting bigger if they chose to but they just haven't. roots are still white but a little off white and i credit this to the 2&quot; of standing water in the bottom bucket.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 18, 2010)

my first time with the system i had no roots come out at all, everything was still fine, main body of roots stay and fill in the upper bucket first then you should get a nice thick layer sitting in the bottom bucket, they should turn off white when they get older during flowering, thats not a problem


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 18, 2010)

algeezy509 said:


> hey what's up simpson, sounds like things been groin good


oh ya.. very well!!



xceptional said:


> how big is everyones rootmass on their plants? I'm in my first cycle in my ebb and grow and i expected the roots to be filling the bottom bucket but they are not. when i moved the plants into the system the roots were about 12-14&quot; grown in a aeroponic system. i had 2 late bloomers that i put in that only had about 3&quot; roots. the ones that i put in late with 3&quot; roots have few long strands out of the first bucket about 9-10&quot; the 42&quot; plants that had very long roots only have about 3&quot; roots out of the top bucket but every hole has at least 5-6 roots coming out of it. they don't seem to be choked in the holes there is still space in each hole so i assume they have the room to continue getting bigger if they chose to but they just haven't. roots are still white but a little off white and i credit this to the 2&quot; of standing water in the bottom bucket.


all my sites end up completely full of roots, plus some hanging out the bottom of the drain bucket...

when i pull my roots out of the bucket, the hydroton and roots stay formed exactly like the bucket... i have to break them up if i want to try to save the hydroton.. i switched to coco coir so i could just throw the shit away and not worry about it...


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## mrduke (Jan 18, 2010)

hey sampson hows that coco work how offtn do you water?


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## boxing119 (Jan 18, 2010)

so my ebb and grow is up in running now with mostly trainwreck clones my 4x8 tent is around 84 degrees should it be cooler? i am using 2x 1000w hps cool tubes i have the rez out of the tent, i am feeding 3 times a day 15 min each and am using the GH line. i have a few questions, what should the temp be? how can i lower it if it becomes to high? i have an inline fan 435 c.f.m. with a stand fan going at all times i just cant seem to get my temp low enough with both lights running and the tent zipped up also i see alot of people are using H202 and does this help? how much do you use? also i see your supposed to flush the plants every time i change the rez, what do you mean by this. any help or tips will be greatly appreciated.
also one of my lights is shinning brighter than the other i have tried using different outlets and just can seem to get it as bright as the other one, any suggestions? also whats the coolest i sholuld ever let my tent go because the temp seems to drop at night when the lights go off


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## smokingrubber (Jan 18, 2010)

84 is at the high end of acceptable. 80 would be better for mold prevention and stress. Are you sucking air through your cool-tube or pushing it (you should be sucking)? CFM of cool-tube fan?

I am feeding 5 times a day (while the lights are on). Every 3 hours. No water at night. GH Nutes.

My tent also drops temp at night. The plants like this. I don't let it get colder than about 50f.


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## boxing119 (Jan 18, 2010)

it is blowing air through the cool tubes, i am keeping the doors open on the tent now i can usually keep the tent around 80 now. i think i might have to get a portable a/c so the inline fan is sucking in cooler air rather than what i keep the house at... SmokingRubber what would you recommend using ppm wise as far as clones and when do you increase?


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 19, 2010)

mrduke said:


> hey sampson hows that coco work how offtn do you water?


i water 4x daily for just a 15 minute interval...

it works well actually... its really dusty and shit when you first use it.. expect to inhale some.. www.suretogrow.com/hydroponic-supply-deluge im sorry if the link didnt copy.. my mouse is broke so i am having to type everything out... if it didnt google what i put... i am thinking about trying out some of these inserts.. they are made specifically for this system.. they look interesting, and very clean....



boxing119 said:


> it is blowing air through the cool tubes, i am keeping the doors open on the tent now i can usually keep the tent around 80 now. i think i might have to get a portable a/c so the inline fan is sucking in cooler air rather than what i keep the house at... SmokingRubber what would you recommend using ppm wise as far as clones and when do you increase?


i personally start clones and sprouts at about an EC of .6


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## shnkrmn (Jan 19, 2010)

Everyone wants to try those inserts. I think a poster in this thread said once and never again. I'm not going to look for it, but the post said they retained too much water so you can't feed as often and flood heights are problematic, oh, and the insert compacts/slumps in the bucket.

Do you have to use coco-specific nutes?





simpsonsampson420 said:


> i water 4x daily for just a 15 minute interval...
> 
> it works well actually... its really dusty and shit when you first use it.. expect to inhale some.. www.suretogrow.com/hydroponic-supply-deluge im sorry if the link didnt copy.. my mouse is broke so i am having to type everything out... if it didnt google what i put... i am thinking about trying out some of these inserts.. they are made specifically for this system.. they look interesting, and very clean....
> 
> ...


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 19, 2010)

oh... well fuck it then... coco or hydroton it is.... 

i was just looking for something that is easy to throw away and little mess... just seemed to be the answer... guess the easy answer isnt always the right one... lol


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## shnkrmn (Jan 19, 2010)

simpsonsampson420 said:


> oh... well fuck it then... coco or hydroton it is....
> 
> i was just looking for something that is easy to throw away and little mess... just seemed to be the answer... guess the easy answer isnt always the right one... lol



The idea is right. Hopefully, they will refine the design to improve performance. Doubtful, I know.

So do you use coco-specific nutes? I'm on the coco/hydroton fence myself right now.

But I don't really want to change nutes.


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 19, 2010)

i dont use coco nutes.. still just use what i always have.... or said i used on the last page or page before.. somewhere around there/here....

i would much prefer to use hydroton over coco tho.. the biggest reason i am thinking of sticking to the switch is that 1) coco is much cheaper and 2, i can just throw it out.. i do that now with hydroton.. but its to expensive to keep up with doing that.. plus the hydroton is a pain in the dick to clean and get ready... hell i might even go with chunky perlite once or twice and see how that goes...


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 19, 2010)

over on IC i have followed a number of threads where those STG's were used in this system and every single grow was a failure, first month or so of veg they looked dynomite and these guys tried everything, end result was they all believed that it was always too soggy at the bottom and dry up top, STG's youtube demo says if you have these issues to raise the insert itself 2 inches with pvc, i seems as if that standing water effects the drainage after a while, stg;'s other products are very good i have heard, hydroton imo is the very best , i know its the worst to prep but unlike coco and perlite where you would probably have to flood less times daily, the delievery of oxygen through the clay pellets is unmatched, actually the more daily floods the better IMO simply because the drain cycle will vacuum more O2 into the root zone more regularly, what do you guys think of my theory??


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## doogleef (Jan 19, 2010)

Yea, I use STG cubes and those inserts would be a nightmare unless you elevated the pot to keep it dry in the bottom. Pebbles work fine.


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 19, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> over on IC i have followed a number of threads where those STG's were used in this system and every single grow was a failure, first month or so of veg they looked dynomite and these guys tried everything, end result was they all believed that it was always too soggy at the bottom and dry up top, STG's youtube demo says if you have these issues to raise the insert itself 2 inches with pvc, i seems as if that standing water effects the drainage after a while, stg;'s other products are very good i have heard, hydroton imo is the very best , i know its the worst to prep but unlike coco and perlite where you would probably have to flood less times daily, the delievery of oxygen through the clay pellets is unmatched, actually the more daily floods the better IMO simply because the drain cycle will vacuum more O2 into the root zone more regularly, what do you guys think of my theory??


it really just depends on the rate the o2 gets used up by roots zones..

my guess is that roots can survive a long with low levels of o2... since they are underground and basically depend on water to deliver oxygen to them they have to be able to survive a good amount of time... so i would imagine that flooding 3 or 4 times a day keeps the roots super saturated with fresh o2 for them to utilize at any given time... 

your idea makes sense tho... i understand what your thinking... again, it just depends on how much o2 the roots can use up between floodings...


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 19, 2010)

the more O2 the better, it really super charges the growth rate, even in F>A>G> faux aero growing jets of water sprayed at the roots gives a substantial growth rate. personally i dont think there is anything on the market that can boost rates like added oxygen in the rootzone. for this vacuum effect in the buckets is the reason why i believe flooding buckets outperform flooding tables every time


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 20, 2010)

hey sampson, how many runs have you had with the coco? for me the cost is not the issue, its just that 60 buckets worth of cleaning clay takes way too much energy and the deisposal as i used fresh each run is even more of a headache. do you pretreat your coco, i have heard you can get MG def if you do not. also hows the water retention? i hate media that stays soggy like RW etc. you said earlier you flood as normal, i always thought in a system such as ours you would flood maybe once daily. i also want to know if anyone has tried using netpot lids, as you can see i am looking to somehow dump the clay, although a post prior to this i was singing its praises, just way too much work


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 20, 2010)

this is actually the first run with coco i have done... 

i have it only with the autos i am running.. i am using hydroton in my photo period girls... mainly because i had enough hydroton to fill only the vegging girls.. otherwise i would have done all coco.. (i have 16 photo girls vegging while 28 autos are flowering.. clear up some confusion)

i am using piece coir from sunleaves.. its a pretreated already ripped up and ready to go coco coir.. throw it in the sites and your ready to go with it... other than raising the ph some (usually just enough to have to ph down it one additional time after my initial nute solution ph'ing) i havent noticed any negative affects from it... no defs or anything.. it could just be the piece coir since its pretreated.. i dunno tho.. i am going to impliment cal-mag into my regiment eventually.. but thats something i planned to do regardless and is not influenced by the coco coir at all...

it seems to retain water well.. but doesnt stay soggy.. or maybe i am lucky and my girls soak up all the water in between waterings.. but they never seem to droop or look bad from over watering.. i may try 3x a day just to see if there is a difference.. but i dont want to change things now.. i need some sort of a control group to base comparisons off of..

i am in the same boat with you on the hydroton.. the cost really isnt much.. in the entire scheme of things.. its more the pain in the ass of getting the hydroton ready and then disposing of hundreds of pounds of clay pellets....

i dont know about the net pot lids.. i would imagine it would add a whole new challenge to using this system... since the roots would need to stay wet/moist but would need DO from the water, getting a good flood routine down would be a challenge.. you would have to flood enough to keep the roots from drying out.. but have the res filled enough to get plenty of DO in it for the roots... could be very interesting too... and i imagine it could yield some amazing results....

out of curiosity.. how many gallons of water a day do your girls drink?? the 16 girls i have vegging right now drink about 10 gallons a day... just want to compare that to other peoples...


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## smokingrubber (Jan 20, 2010)

simpsonsampson420 said:


> out of curiosity.. how many gallons of water a day do your girls drink?? the 16 girls i have vegging right now drink about 10 gallons a day... just want to compare that to other peoples...


I have 8 girls going, 19 days into flower (hydroton). They're drinking about 3 gallons a day. But I also have the dehumidifier sitting above my controller, and it drains down and pumps back to the reservior. That may be another 2 gallons a day? It's hard to know.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 20, 2010)

one room with 20 sites runs atleast 10 gallons a day, this is late veg, as soon as they hit 24inches they take up half gallon a day, 3600w each. i have another room almost done and they seem to be drinking much slower


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 20, 2010)

with an intense and good amount of lighting i would expect each plant taking up a whole gallon per day, in my old aero this is what happened, also later in flowering when roots start to lose thier luster, ya know when they turn a little tan it seems like mine also drank less


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## boxing119 (Jan 22, 2010)

what do people mean when they say flush the system? is that just running PH corrected water through the system and plants for a day? also how much hydrogen proxide are people using? and does this really help?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 22, 2010)

Good question. I'm a noob so take this with a grain of salt. 

I add 30ml of 50% H2o2 every 3 days (40 gal). This is supposed to add oxegen and merk any pathogens.

Of course, I empty the reservior and hose it down every 10-14 days. Then I refill with RO water and dose it with nutes.

Actually "flushing" the system and the plants is something I intend on doing during the last 4 days of flower. There is some stuff called FloraClean I have to buy I think. Basically, my last reservior will be straight RO and the FloraClean (no nutes). I haven't actually done it yet so I really don't have any idea what I'm talking about. I could be doing it all wrong?


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## simpsonsampson420 (Jan 22, 2010)

in this instance they mean to clean the system out weekly.. when you change out the res get the salts and sediment out of it (the best you can) otherwise it can fuck with your plants (over time)....

i dont use h2o2... you only need to use it should you have mold or something growing in your res... an airstone/pump will give your res plenty of bubbles.. if you use organic nutes h2o2 can/will kill the micro organisims in them...

florakleen works great as a flushing agent.. it breaks the bonds formed by the salt build up... i use it a couple times throughout my grow...

1) i use it during the transition from veg to flower.. this way the roots are nice and cleaned off from any build up.. i run it for 3 days straight.. it also helps to remove the salts that are built up in the system itself and my water chillers.. helps to make everything nice and clean... then i run 4 days with 1/4 strength nutes.. but thats another story...

2) i use it the last couple days of flowering before harvest.. over the last week i run 1/4 strength nutes (4 or 5 days) and then florakleen (2 or 3 days) to get ready for harvest...


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## dbizzo (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm running a 15 site diy ebb n gro w/ 2 strains: 5 sour p and 10 sensi hash plants. 


I have a 54 g res, 1 control bucket w/ 3 ports, 5 sites per port. 


The problem being the hash finishes 3-4 weeks earlier than the sour and I dont want to pre-maturely flush the sour w/ the hash plant when the sour still needs nutes if I don't need to.

Any suggestions please!


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## smokingrubber (Jan 22, 2010)

Flush them all with FloraKleen for 4 days. It won't hurt the sour and you can jump right back on the juice once the sensi is chopped.


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## doogleef (Jan 22, 2010)

You can't flush a plant like a radiator. There is no botanical evidence that it does anything at all. Taste is about trim, dry, and cure.

I use H202 and I recommend anyone using base mineral nutes (non-organic) use it. It works better than anything else I've tried at keeping pathogens and nasty smells out of my res for however long I want to go without a change. Using the lucas formula with addbacks and H202 I run a full month and my rez does not have a nasty film or odor in the bottom when I dump. Shit works.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 22, 2010)

yes i agree totally with DL, only with chem nutes should you use h2o2, but i strongly suggest you either use hygrozyme or aquashiled or hydrogaurd, these eat up dead/dying organic matter, one thing that not many people talk about anymore is the inoculation of beneficials, like GH's sub culture line, i am a big fan of mychorizal, the inoculants basically become root extentions and the bacterias produce the enzymes that fight of pathogens...so in essence the hygrozyme cuts out the inoculation process. best defense for any of these issues is have a chiller and run it to 65-68F and you wont need a thing, IMO h202 should be used to clean your system for the next run or for a quick shot for root rot before the application of enzymes...on another note i use PBP and recently stopped the liquid Karma because no matter how much i try to clean my system between runs i cant get the nasty sewage LK leaves behind, i wind up replacing all hosing, as you can imagine this is a nightmare on my hands, floraklean/hot water dont get rid of it, clearex/hot water wont do either, not even hot water and peroxide do the trick, so not only do i have to dispose of used clay but i have to completly dismantle everything, i am considering switching nutes but that leaves me with white salty residue that is equally hard to get rid of, if you dont clean this salt this will skew your ppm and PH numbers....any of you guys have a good method for cleansing without dismantling im all ears fellas, i got these system for ease of use, beatween trimming and getting ready for another run its not perpetual anymore


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## doogleef (Jan 22, 2010)

I get very little build up with floranova nutes and a simple cleanse with H202 and water once a cycle keeps things nice and clean. PBP is terrible about sludge. What a nightmare that would be in this system. I would definitely consider changing your nute line. Organic hydro is mess soup, bro. As I'm sure you already know, plants take up the inorganic base minerals at the rot level so it really is just a means to an end. All the same ions.

EDIT: I'm going to do dynagro next. Simple and complete.


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## boxing119 (Jan 22, 2010)

doogleef- i was wondering how much h202 you put in your rez and how often?


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## doogleef (Jan 22, 2010)

I put in 35% at 2ml/L of rez every 4-5 days. So for my 50 gallons of nute solution I use 400ml. I could probably get away with a bit less.


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## dbizzo (Jan 22, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Flush them all with FloraKleen for 4 days. It won't hurt the sour and you can jump right back on the juice once the sensi is chopped.


Thats what I was thinking my only option is. Usually I flush 2 wks h20. Next time I'll keep all the strains around same finishing time. 

I hear what dg is saying- I mean, I never flushed my tomato plants and they still tasted gr8!


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## shnkrmn (Jan 23, 2010)

doogleef said:


> EDIT: I'm going to do dynagro next. Simple and complete.


I am using Dyna-gro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 and wow! Love that stuff and so do my plants! What would you use during bloom? Just continue on with that, or use a blossom booster?

I spent 2 1/2 hours washing new hydroton today. Thank god I had some very effective molasses cookies

I still havent figured out my layout so the ebb and grow is as yet unassembled. Tomorrow. I have so much material begging to be put in there! And new beans coming! I'll be starting a new journal soon with the ebb and grow. I'm looking forward to saying farewell to perlite.


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## doogleef (Jan 23, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> I am using Dyna-gro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 and wow! Love that stuff and so do my plants! What would you use during bloom? Just continue on with that, or use a blossom booster?
> 
> I spent 2 1/2 hours washing new hydroton today. Thank god I had some very effective molasses cookies
> 
> I still havent figured out my layout so the ebb and grow is as yet unassembled. Tomorrow. I have so much material begging to be put in there! And new beans coming! I'll be starting a new journal soon with the ebb and grow. I'm looking forward to saying farewell to perlite.


Switch from the foliage pro to bloom formula after stretch.


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## Sinclue (Jan 24, 2010)

It took me several evenings after work, but I finally got mine all set up. I only have a small space (4x4) and have decided to start off with 8 pots (on 1risers as suggested here). Good thing too, because two of the outer pots came with cracks in the bottom. Have to address that with the seller I guess. 
Last night I set it up to run every hour so that I could test it out before any planting. I checked it at each run through #5. Then I got distracted (i.e. medicated) and didnt check until what would have been run #7. When I looked into the tent it was flooded almost up to the top of the liner (thank god for that item) with water reaching the bottom (and perhaps into) the timer box. It is in the back of the tent and I didnt want to step into the water. The drain light was glowing however. After an hour of bailing water out (bucket by bucket) I could get to the controller. All the switches seemed to be free-floating and nothing seemed to be amiss. I shut it down and went to bed. Today I dried up the last of the water and started it up again. It ran through several cycles and then I had to go out so I shut it down. Fired it up again this evening and watched it fill up, the upper valve floated up and didnt shut anything off. If I hadnt been there to reach in and jiggle it Id have another flood. Any ideas as to what might be wrong and what to do about it?
Two things to mention in the off chance they might contirbute. The upper float switch is not oriented perpendicularly. Its angled towards about 2 oclock (10 oclock from the outside). But then the lower switches are also not perpendicular. The second thing is the piece of tubing I used on the filler line (in the controller) was a leftover piece only about 5 long (instead of the 10 the directions indicate to use). Might that somehow change how the float valve functions? I dont really see how, but the older I get the less I seem to know.


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## doogleef (Jan 24, 2010)

There should be 2 valves on both the high and low water level marks, is there only 1?


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## Sinclue (Jan 24, 2010)

Only one valve at high water (fill) level. There are two at the bottom (drain). Do other people have two valves high and low?
Just ran another cycle before bed. Worked without problem.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 24, 2010)

yes that upper float valve is agnled a bit, cus if you rotate it to a normal angle it will kick off soon with a lower waterline, this is all right. the only tubing issue you would have is the drilled elbow that belongs in the res, other than that you can use lengths to siut your needs. you can test your float valves by running the unit to fill and with your hand lift the upper float switch, if it shuts off your incoming water then its good. you can also test your outgoing drain floats by moving your timer passed the fill cycle to drain and play with the switch, if you lift the switch up it should still be pumping, you will learn fast. just make sure you have the elbow with the hole in it inside the res on the fill pump, hole facing down, if not for this hole through the cyphon effect your fill pump will be activated as normal and shut off as normal but the vacuum can still pump water thruogh thus emptying your res, since this would happen during a fill cycle your drain pumps will not be automatically activated till the timer passes the fill cycle, after the fill cycle the drain pump will pump anything left in your buckets back regardless of the timer---this pump will always work unless your segment timer tells it to fill. i am lucky to never have flooded my rooms in this fashion.......i manage to flood the whole joint by other means xD


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 24, 2010)

also let me address one more thing, never let the res get so low that air gets into pumps , you dont water air pockets getting into those line, the pumps arent strong enough to blow them out and you will have to suck on that hose to cyphon out fliud to get it going again, you need to try this if one day your pumps seem not to work


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## xceptional (Jan 24, 2010)

yeah make sure the elbow with the hold right at the bend is on the fill pump res lid connection. make sure it's not clogged also! this prevents siphoning and if it siphons you will flood your buckets!


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 24, 2010)

^ i am thinking this could have happened, once the drain pump kicks in it will be too late, all the water would have flooded all the buckets. dont worry about a thing Sinclue, after your initial setup, your not going to touch a single thing on this system for the next 3 months i promise you, your going to wind up fucking something up out of sheer bordum, just add water and nutes, ya dont even have to change the rez ever just top offs and it will be succesful (although i am a big advocate of monthly flushing because i use sewage for nutrients-PBP-)


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## Sinclue (Jan 24, 2010)

All systems are assembled per directions and working as they should. The elbow connection has a hole in it that drips nicely when the controller is filling from the reservoir. Just started the system up yesterday so it has 50+ gallons in the reservoir. No kinking of lines. All assembled per instructions and functioned properly multiple times without problem (including 15 minutes ago). The float switches always work if I move them manually (the drain ones have not been a problem). When it is filling I can lift the fill switch (top switch) and it shuts the pump off. Let it go and the pump comes back on, i.e. functioning as it should. At this point I have probably put it through 25+ cycles. One failure I wasn't there to catch and one I was there to catch (manually tripped the float to stop the fill). 
Do you have a controller with two switches top and bottom?


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## xceptional (Jan 24, 2010)

i own the cap ebb and grow with the same brain bucket you have. my buddy has one as well. he had one flood i have had NOT ONE SINGLE ISSUE with my system. i don't run at 50 gal that's a waste unless you are running 48 buckets. i run 12 and i run at 25 gal. running 24 i would run about 35. save yourself the hassle. 

i run the lucas formula so i just fill the res to 45 gal and nute and ph it then use 4 5 gallon buckets to pull 20 gal back out. as needed I'll add it back in. not much difference then leaving it in i guess but it makes me feel like i have much more control.


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## Sinclue (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks for the idea about using less in the reservoir. Makes sense...also to premix your nutes for adding back. 
I'm only running straight water now to test the system. Just put it through two cycles without problem. Wish that made me feel better, but since I didn't change anything since the last "failure", it doesn't.


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## patlpp (Jan 24, 2010)

Sounds to me like it may be a sticky relay inside the brain. Inside they use generic relays that I have seen get stuck in the energized position. They are spring loaded and sometimes they just don't quit release right. If your unit is new, get it exchanged. I had to send mine back cuz of another issue and they (R&M) http://www.randmsupply.com/ were fantastic. They just pulled a new one off inventory and shipped. I did however need to ship mine back first (they paid). With the new brain were 2 new pumps and all the 1/2 fittings!! Now the vendor was willing to bust into their own inventory and swap with me, but I decided to work with CAP direct. CAP may cost a little more, but warranty resolutions are top notch.

Even if it were something else, wouldn't you feel better if it were replaced with it so intermittent ? Fastest way is to try to swap with the seller.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 24, 2010)

Don't take it back. Epoxy something floaty to the end of the plastic float valve. That way it will surely float up every time without fail. Use marine epoxy.

If you have a small bottle (pill bottle, film cap) glue it to the end. Opening UP of course.


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## patlpp (Jan 24, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Don't take it back. Epoxy something floaty to the end of the plastic float valve. That way it will surely float up every time without fail. Use marine epoxy.
> 
> If you have a small bottle (pill bottle, film cap) glue it to the end. Opening UP of course.



So epoxy/ modify a brand new unit and bust a 5 year warranty?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 24, 2010)

Its a freakin float valve. He's not rewiring the fukr, just making sure it floats. Taking it back requires a lot of disassembly and hassle, and he's still got to explain to the clerk that he wants a new one because he's scared it MIGHT not float one time? Even though it IS actually working right now?

I would glue something that floats to the end of the floaty. Make it floatier  Or chalk it up to a gremlins cuz it's working right now. Maybe it just needed someone to diddle it a couple times.


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## patlpp (Jan 24, 2010)

The freakin warranty is NO HASSLE, they will do it no problem, I have worked with them. I am talking from personal experience, not out of my ass. YES they will replace it because the customer has indicated to the company there is a flaw that creates a FREAKIN DEADLY SAFETY HAZARD, be it intermittent or not. So say he sticks a freakin bottle on the end of it with FREAKIN epoxy. The warranty would be VOID VOID VOID. What makes you think thats the fix? What if it isn't and he has to return it with a freakin retard bottle hangin on the end of it?


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## Sinclue (Jan 24, 2010)

OK, so I just fired it up for another test run after letting it sit overnight. Water level rose to the float, the float moved up and appeared to seat, and the water kept rising. I reached in and pushed it down and let it float up several times. Water level kept rising. I put my finger under the float tip and applied a small amount of lifting pressure and the float mechanism engaged. It seems pretty clearly to be the switch. 
I have to say I'm with "patipp" on this one. Its a pretty expensive system that should work out of the box. I had thought of a modification like "smokingrubber" suggests, but I shouldn't have to modify a new thing to get it to work. I can't afford a flood for any number of reasons.
So I'll call CAP tomorrow. At least we're both in California so hopefully turn around time should be short. And yet I know in the back of my mind I'll still be wondering about another unit working properly.....
Anybody else get any cracked buckets with theirs?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 24, 2010)

Yeah I'd probably want to take mine back too. But like you said, you just have to cross your fingers that the next one will be better. I like your chances though  It's been a reliable system for me so far. No, I had no cracked buckets with the initial system or the expansion pack set.

My ONLY complaint so far with the CAP Ebb and Grow is: Can't they find an adapter for the pump that fits the included hose? That fukr is a pain in the ass to get on! Plus, maybe a little chart that says if you use 8 pots - fill to 25 gallons and if you use 12 pots - fill to 35 gallons ... or whatever the rate should be. Right now it's all a huge guess when you start out.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 24, 2010)

one cracked bucket here, but i got the replacment from the guys i got it from, not cap, the geniuses send me the wrong bucket twice, these buckets breack very easily too, especially when trying to stick a connector thru a grommet, make sure your hand is on the inside of the bucket when installing these peices or end up with a crack .....as for operation i own 3 of these systems and they all run perfectly, absolute bitch to connect the pumps. as for rez size i persoannly start at 40gallon cus its easier for calcualtaing nutes, but look at it this way, a larger water tank will end up in more stable PH and PPM


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 24, 2010)

Sentinel just came out with a flood bucket system, they are designed to drain the buckets from the bottom so no more standing water, plus the timers are all digital, i think its not even priced yet, only thing i dont like about draining from the bottom i can gaurentee roots will stuff up the lines, since i raise my buckets i notced the roots going into the lines more often and this never happens when im lazy and dont raise buckets...somthing to chew on


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 24, 2010)

another thing to chew on.....imagine smokingrubber sending back his controller a friggin 2liter bottle attatched to the float dripping with green epoxy talking bout "this shit aint working!" lol xD


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## boxing119 (Jan 24, 2010)

does anyone spray there plants in addition to the flood and drain some guy recommended it to me today and i was interested if anyone else had tried it?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 24, 2010)

The only thing I really like about it is the sentinal digital controller. When you want to adjust your feeding schedule, having a digital display mounted in your control room ... a little classier than crawling under the tundra to fiddle with the never-convenient dial. Plus, if it had some kind of sensor/alarm for when things aren't going as planned, that would be sweet.

$599
http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/gardening_supplies.aspx?request=HORT_SENT_EBB-FLOW&title=Tray%20/%20Reservoir%20/%20Grow%20Systems&type=product


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 24, 2010)

just hardlined one of my units, what i mean is i used 1/2in PVC, i did this for 2 reasons, one i ran out of fresh 1/2 poly and was too paranoid bcus i seen sludge on the inside of used tubing that had been in boiling hot water and bleached, still looked like diahrea, but 2 i like to arrange the pots so they can be moved in either direction when they get largers or if i have to get in there, i normally do this with the soft poly tubing, so i make a straight run of hose/pvc, lets say 8 sites per line, about 18" apart i put a "T" so the site can branch off this main line, soft poly tubing is used from the bucket to main PVC line, i just cut the soft tube on an angle and slide it into the 1/2 pvc, stays pretty tight, when i used all soft tubing i would get major kinks in the line. the way we are first introduced to this system is they are all daisy chained and to move one bucket you needed to move 5, if one bucket falls over its niehbor can go down too. my advice is always keep around extra tubing, t's elbows and grommets, this system is customizable i seen a vert grow with it.


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## doogleef (Jan 24, 2010)

My bad. Single float on top  Medicated.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 25, 2010)

Well, after a long weekend of pinched fingers and a sore back, I have my ebb and grow assembled, tested and running.




































Don't the Moms look proud! I know I am. My new grow journal is here:https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/296242-shnkrmn-gets-wet-2010-ebb.html#post3704133

I've just posted the above pics as my first post there, I'll be updating this regularly. It should get really interesting when my new beans arrive (A-Train, Chronic).

I hope you experienced ebb and growers will give me some help as I learn this system. It's a big leap going over to the watery side of things!


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## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 25, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> just hardlined one of my units, what i mean is i used 1/2in PVC, i did this for 2 reasons, one i ran out of fresh 1/2 poly and was too paranoid bcus i seen sludge on the inside of used tubing that had been in boiling hot water and bleached, still looked like diahrea, but 2 i like to arrange the pots so they can be moved in either direction when they get largers or if i have to get in there, i normally do this with the soft poly tubing, so i make a straight run of hose/pvc, lets say 8 sites per line, about 18" apart i put a "T" so the site can branch off this main line, soft poly tubing is used from the bucket to main PVC line, i just cut the soft tube on an angle and slide it into the 1/2 pvc, stays pretty tight, when i used all soft tubing i would get major kinks in the line. the way we are first introduced to this system is they are all daisy chained and to move one bucket you needed to move 5, if one bucket falls over its niehbor can go down too. my advice is always keep around extra tubing, t's elbows and grommets, this system is customizable i seen a vert grow with it.


Last grow, particularily during the bloom phase, I had a lot of slimy stuff in the reservoir and controller when I cleaned out the system every week. Someone said that this was a result of using phosphoric acid based PH Down. Because the solution water is already saturated with phosphorus, the phosphorus dissolved in the water that comes into immediate contact with the phosphoric acid precipitates out into the solution. This is because the solution around the PH DOwn becomes overly saturated with phosphorus. It has nowhere to go so it becomes a solid. This leads to the slimy coating that you sometimes find inside the reservoir and on lines, etc, and in the controller. 

This crop I started using Eco Grows brand of PH Down which uses some other sort of acid to knock the PH down and lo and behold, no more slimy crap in the system.

Now when I change out the reservoir it is almost spotlessly clean and I barely have to wipe things down. The difference is stunning and it saves me a lot of work every week. 

Perhaps if you used a different brand and type of PH Down you would not have to worry about crap in your hoses. Just a thought.

http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=6140


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## shnkrmn (Jan 25, 2010)

That's amazing information. And I'm getting low on GH pH down! How convenient!


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## doogleef (Jan 25, 2010)

I use very little PH down with my current nute addback feeding program. The GH nutes buffer really well on their own. 

Want to avoid crap in your lines? Go with a chem fertilizer and either lots of aeration and/or regular H202.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 25, 2010)

doogleef said:


> I use very little PH down with my current nute addback feeding program. The GH nutes buffer really well on their own.
> 
> Want to avoid crap in your lines? Go with a chem fertilizer and either lots of aeration and/or regular H202.


I'm using Dyna-Gro. That's as pure a synthetic as you can get. AND two airstones and a small water pump just for circulation in the res. AND H202.
LOL. I got it all covered.

I'm running lights 24/7 and I've set 4 floods equally spaced through the day. Any comments on whether that's on track or not?


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## doogleef (Jan 25, 2010)

Sounds good to me, . I run 24/7 veg on smaller lighting (like my 250 tent) but big lights I run 18/6. Other than that, sounds like you are on target! Do you have to chase PH quite a bit using dynagro?


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## shnkrmn (Jan 25, 2010)

doogleef said:


> Sounds good to me, . I run 24/7 veg on smaller lighting (like my 250 tent) but big lights I run 18/6. Other than that, sounds like you are on target! Do you have to chase PH quite a bit using dynagro?


I filled my res to 45 gallons yesterday and added 1/2 tsp/gal foliage pro. That went to about 460ppm and 5.8 pH without adjustment. Starting with near zero ppm RO water. This morning, having run through three cycles, the pH was 6.2. It took very little ph down added to go back to 5.8. That was 5 hours ago. I'll be home in an hour or so and (of course) I'll be checking. I'll let you know.

I was wondering how to schedule floods on a 24 hour light cycle, so thanks for that confirmation. If I wanted to go to 18/6, I would just compress my 4 floods to the lights-on period, right? Seems like some folks don't flood during the dark period, and others do.


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## boxing119 (Jan 25, 2010)

permalink
does anyone spray there plants in addition to the flood and drain some guy recommended it to me today and i was interested if anyone else had tried it?


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## patlpp (Jan 25, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> I filled my res to 45 gallons yesterday and added 1/2 tsp/gal foliage pro. That went to about 460ppm and 5.8 pH without adjustment. Starting with near zero ppm RO water. This morning, having run through three cycles, the pH was 6.2. It took very little ph down added to go back to 5.8. That was 5 hours ago. I'll be home in an hour or so and (of course) I'll be checking. I'll let you know.
> 
> I


I'm about to go buy some dyna-gro. What is ur fert regimen? do u use strictly fert-pro for veg? what for flower? Mag-pro? I can't pin down a definitive agreed upon strictly dyna-gro regimen. Thanks


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## shnkrmn (Jan 25, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> permalink
> does anyone spray there plants in addition to the flood and drain some guy recommended it to me today and i was interested if anyone else had tried it?


If you mean foliar feeding, you really only need to do it if your roots are locked out and your plants have a deficiency. Just spraying your plants with water doesn't really benefit the plants in any way and can lead to problems with mold and leaf damage. Sure, plants get rained on in the real world but they also get dried out by wind, sun, etc.

Who's the guy who recommended this, and why would you believe him? And what did he say spraying would do? 

You believe ME, don't you?


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## shnkrmn (Jan 25, 2010)

patlpp said:


> I'm about to go buy some dyna-gro. What is ur fert regimen? do u use strictly fert-pro for veg? what for flower? Mag-pro? I can't pin down a definitive agreed upon strictly dyna-gro regimen. Thanks


I just started using this a couple weeks ago, and am in the middle of switching grow systems, so your questions are going to remain unanswered. I'm wondering about the cal-mag question myself, so I'm not supplementing it right now, because it does have a pretty good shot of cal-mag in the formula as compared to most cannabis nutrients. I'm keeping an eagle eye out for deficiency and if I spot it, I'll add in cal-mag or magical. Of course, the clones I just transplanted from hempy are deficient; I blame the Miracle Grow perlite I potted them in, it was too fine grained and held too much water. The clones I ran in DWC with nothing but Foliage Pro are green and lush in comparison. I figure a couple weeks vegging in the ebb and grow will even everything out.

My moms greened up considerably from foliage pro applied full strength; 1/2 tsp/gallon.

What for flower is another question I haven't answered. I got lots of FF Tiger Bloom and all their solubles too. I guess I could use that up, but I'd rather not. I saw a discussion about not using bloom ferts at all but supplementing foliage pro with another dyna-gro product called Protekt, which is a 0-0-3 potassium silicate product. Here's the link:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0708553831544.html



I got turned on to Dyna-Gro by Uncle Ben who, for whatever people say about him, knows his shit. I can't say he steered me wrong. I've been trying to follow his methods and thinking, but it's like having a strict zen master; the best you can hope for is a sound thrashing!


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## patlpp (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks SHNKRMN - Of course!! 9-3-9. Falls in line with Fat Mikes "P" bash too:
http://www.growersunderground.com/blog/hydroponics-articles/the-great-phosphorus-myth-exposed

Nice grow area u have. The Ebb/Grow setup is nice. The room u have reminds me of one of those SAW movies!! 
Happy grow.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 25, 2010)

patlpp said:


> Thanks SHNKRMN - Of course!! 9-3-9. Falls in line with Fat Mikes "P" bash too:
> http://www.growersunderground.com/blog/hydroponics-articles/the-great-phosphorus-myth-exposed
> 
> Nice grow area u have. The Ebb/Grow setup is nice. The room u have reminds me of one of those SAW movies!!
> Happy grow.


LOL. My basement reminds me of silence of the lambs. Same idea I guess. Thanks for that link!


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## smokingrubber (Jan 25, 2010)

I personally prefer to veg 18/6. The plants need time to rest, and so does my ballast. I've had no problems. To each his own. I'm doing 3 A-Train right now, love them.

You should NOT water during lights off. I had some info on why exactly but it made sense, I'll see if I can find it.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 25, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I personally prefer to veg 18/6. The plants need time to rest, and so does my ballast. I've had no problems. To each his own. I'm doing 3 A-Train right now, love them.
> 
> You should NOT water during lights off. I had some info on why exactly but it made sense, I'll see if I can find it.


This time of year it's either run the lights or run the space heater; I'm not sure which is a bigger energy hog. Oh yeah, it's the heater! 1500 watts versus two 600s. The only thermometer I have in my room is the probe in my res and that's 59 degrees. It's an unheated space except for the hot water radiator pipes running overhead.

Thanks for the confirmation about lights off watering. I'm looking forward to the A-train.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 25, 2010)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Last grow, particularily during the bloom phase, I had a lot of slimy stuff in the reservoir and controller when I cleaned out the system every week. Someone said that this was a result of using phosphoric acid based PH Down. Because the solution water is already saturated with phosphorus, the phosphorus dissolved in the water that comes into immediate contact with the phosphoric acid precipitates out into the solution. This is because the solution around the PH DOwn becomes overly saturated with phosphorus. It has nowhere to go so it becomes a solid. This leads to the slimy coating that you sometimes find inside the reservoir and on lines, etc, and in the controller.
> 
> This crop I started using Eco Grows brand of PH Down which uses some other sort of acid to knock the PH down and lo and behold, no more slimy crap in the system.
> 
> ...


yes i get plenty of snot looking mucous in the controller on the outside of the lines, add Liquid Karma to this mix and its a disaster, im gonna try that PH down, thanks dewd


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## justjr27 (Jan 25, 2010)

hey guys like I stated earlier I want to run 80 2 gallon pots I was thinking two rooms 40 each but decided all in one room with 7 1000 watt lights what size resz. do you guys suggest I use so i dont have to mess with the resz. for at least 3-4 days and what times to flood and how long do I let the bucket sit with water untill I drain I would reply appericate the help thanks guys


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 25, 2010)

40 buckets if you can get 100 gallons would be perfect, anything over 36 sites on a 55gallon is a daily headache, everyone floods different, when running more than 12 sites you should flood for 30mins at most every 3-4 hours, no floods when lights out, simple


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## mrduke (Jan 26, 2010)

justjr27 said:


> hey guys like I stated earlier I want to run 80 2 gallon pots I was thinking two rooms 40 each but decided all in one room with 7 1000 watt lights what size resz. do you guys suggest I use so i dont have to mess with the resz. for at least 3-4 days and what times to flood and how long do I let the bucket sit with water untill I drain I would reply appericate the help thanks guys


I wish i could find the thread were i saw this but.... anyways the guy had 2 55g drums and connected them on the bottoms with a peice of 1" pvc. just drill a hole add acouple "o"rings or grommets and connect the two now you have a 110gallons. this is a must for any# over 30


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## justjr27 (Jan 26, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> 40 buckets if you can get 100 gallons would be perfect, anything over 36 sites on a 55gallon is a daily headache, everyone floods different, when running more than 12 sites you should flood for 30mins at most every 3-4 hours, no floods when lights out, simple


So do you think if I connect two 55 gallon drums togethor it will be fine for 80 2 gallon pots and just to make sure I get this str8 i flood for 30 min every 4 hours but once the buckets are full how long do i keep them full for untill I start drain cycle


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## smokingrubber (Jan 26, 2010)

Getting two barrels worth of nutrients mixed together properly and evenly would probably suck ass. They DO sell 100gal barrels!


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## justjr27 (Jan 26, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Getting two barrels worth of nutrients mixed together properly and evenly would probably suck ass. They DO sell 100gal barrels!


thanks smokingrubber let me ask u this I dont know if my math is off but how is 100 gallons going to fill 80 2 gallon pots 

80x 2= 160 gallons


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## doogleef (Jan 26, 2010)

The pots are NOT empty. Remember they are full of medium.


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## justjr27 (Jan 26, 2010)

ok thanks doogleef sorry abouyt all the ? first time growin g hydro just want to get it right before investing money b/c like all of us know this shit is not cheap just to make sure I get this str8 i flood for 30 min every 4 hours but once the buckets are full how long do i keep them full for untill I start drain cycle 

is there any links with someone growing with this system at this size


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## mrduke (Jan 26, 2010)

you just set the timer to flood for 30 min then it automaticly starts to drain after that time is up. Also if you are really going for 80 sites you pronanly want to upgrade to 3/4" line and fittings to speed up the flood and drain. You may be better of using 2 control buckets also, 110g of res feeding 40 pots ata time out of 2 controlers set to flood one after the other.


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## mrduke (Jan 26, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Getting two barrels worth of nutrients mixed together properly and evenly would probably suck ass. They DO sell 100gal barrels!


 you would only have to have the mixtures close to the same as they would be linker together and act as one large res.


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## COgrow (Jan 26, 2010)

Love this thread. I just picked up the basic 12 bucket set up today along with a 1000w HPS HydroFarm Daystar light/ballast set up. Will have the room set up early next week and will share pics.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 26, 2010)

the whole reason for a 30min flood is that with so many buckets it will take a while to fill, if you went 15mins they would get flooded and then be draining before the plants get a good feed in. linking the 2 barrels isnt a bad idea, i used to link rubbermade tubs to make larger res's but make sure you use a good tight bulkhead fitting, to be honest you might want to keep seperate water, some strains feed heavier than others, personally i dont let different strains share a res anymore


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## justjr27 (Jan 26, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> the whole reason for a 30min flood is that with so many buckets it will take a while to fill, if you went 15mins they would get flooded and then be draining before the plants get a good feed in. linking the 2 barrels isnt a bad idea, i used to link rubbermade tubs to make larger res's but make sure you use a good tight bulkhead fitting, to be honest you might want to keep seperate water, some strains feed heavier than others, personally i dont let different strains share a res anymore


Thanks for the reply so do you think that a 100 or two 55 gallon drums will be enough for at let 3-4 days with the 80 2 gallon pots


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 26, 2010)

when these plants hit 18-24 inches tall they will drink approx 1/2 gallon each plant per day, especially since im sure you will be using intense HID lighting, i would say use the 2 seperate resi's for multiple strains, i would only connect the resivoirs if i had to use a chiller. The hydroton in the buckets will displace well over a gallon, so if you have a 2gallon bucket expect to use less than a gallon to actually fill it, but dont take my word for it, flood the system , make sure you have your hydroton filled bucklts in and pull a bucket out and you will see the water line is like 1/3 high


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## boxing119 (Jan 27, 2010)

one of my hps lights is not shinning as bright as the other it kinda looks more yellow than whie, what could be causing this?


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## shnkrmn (Jan 27, 2010)

COgrow said:


> Love this thread. I just picked up the basic 12 bucket set up today along with a 1000w HPS HydroFarm Daystar light/ballast set up. Will have the room set up early next week and will share pics.


Start a grow journal and post the link here.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 27, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> one of my hps lights is not shinning as bright as the other it kinda looks more yellow than whie, what could be causing this?


Swap the ballasts. If the dim moves to the other bulb it's the ballast. If the same bulb is dim again, it's the bulb or the connection. Do you have a light meter to quantify this dimness or just eyeballn it?


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## boxing119 (Jan 27, 2010)

just eye ballin it, ill try the tip on switching up the ballast. thanks


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## boxing119 (Jan 27, 2010)

also does any one really know what this system yeilds i have 12 going now with 2 x 1000w lights just curious on what to expect


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## boxing119 (Jan 27, 2010)

and i switched the lights to the different ballast it turns out it was the ballast that was dimming the bulb a bit. what do you think could fix it? or should i try to return the ballast because it is less than a month old.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 27, 2010)

if you think you got a faulty ballast in any way shape or form change it now instead of waiting for your flowering cycle. for yield depending on strain indie's should be vegged atleast 2-4 weeks, anything less than 70g is a complete and total failure, now if vegged like this system is intended for larger plant, aim for a QP per or .5gram/watt


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## boxing119 (Jan 27, 2010)

thanks for all the info, i am going to get a new ballast tomorrow, would it be problematic if i ran a Digital ballast with a coil ballast also. i have to coil ones now but was thinking about getting a digital tomorrow. how long would you recommend vegging for with this system to maximize yield?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 28, 2010)

I vegged for 5 weeks (after 3 weeks germ) and it felt like 1 week too long. I may top them after 1 week next time just to squash the vert. Some plants can REALLY go skyscraper on you!


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 28, 2010)

i take them to atleast 2ft tall abd make em bushy, i have a whiteberry going now and they are like 3ft wide, 5week vegg, i only do this cus io know this strain and i know she wont stretch more than a foot on me, this is improtant info, i got other cuts that cant go more than 2 weeks, ya dig?


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## mrduke (Jan 28, 2010)

do you guys ever have issues with leaking from the "T" connector @ the buckets? It seems that every time i get setup and do a couple practice floods w/o plants it leaks from the hose connecting the "T"'s. anyone have an easy fix for this? 
When i connect the hose i soak it in hot water for a minute then slide it on and can never get 'em off with out cuting so I would think its tight?? IDK


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## BikerDude (Jan 28, 2010)

My ebb and flow has one fill/drain and the an overflow pipe which is set to the height of my flood. Built it myself for under a $100 and never had a problem. If if the pump were to stay on it would just flood to the overfill tube and back down to my res...why are you using floats and multiple valves? Must have a huge set-up...


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## BikerDude (Jan 28, 2010)

Sativas grow VERY high...Indica's are a short growing plant. You may want to switch if height is an issue.


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## BikerDude (Jan 28, 2010)

How about some video of these systems in action...I am going from Drip to E&G


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## BikerDude (Jan 28, 2010)

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, ebb and flow


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 28, 2010)

with lankier sativa-ish strains or just in general, i highly recommend using tomato cages as opposed to trellis or nets, these units were designed to be moved around for maintenance and such, once they grow into a trellis your screwed, all those heavy flowers will need support


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## shnkrmn (Jan 29, 2010)

BikerDude said:


> Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, ebb and flow





lol


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## mrduke (Jan 29, 2010)

mrduke said:


> do you guys ever have issues with leaking from the "T" connector @ the buckets? It seems that every time i get setup and do a couple practice floods w/o plants it leaks from the hose connecting the "T"'s. anyone have an easy fix for this?
> When i connect the hose i soak it in hot water for a minute then slide it on and can never get 'em off with out cuting so I would think its tight?? IDK


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## doogleef (Jan 29, 2010)

Don't soak the hose. It fits with a little elbow grease.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 29, 2010)

BikerDude said:


> Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, ebb and flow


The is a thread for CAP - Ebb and Gro users. http://www.hydrofarm.com/downloads/fc/12936_EBB-12Instructions.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa69EDCwfak&feature=related

(my shit) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5gU8EDqDkg


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## mrduke (Jan 29, 2010)

doogleef said:


> Don't soak the hose. It fits with a little elbow grease.


Do you think soaking the hose will make it expand so that it will leak? It leaks at almost every fitting, probably lost 2 cups of water over night with just the left over 1" in the buckets


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 29, 2010)

make sure your rubber grommet are not in sideways or the lips will not engage the crease if that makes sense, if too forceful with these things they wont lock in right and may drip, also if your too hard on the buckets you can get a hairline crack right at the drain hole


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## mrduke (Jan 29, 2010)

thanks MO the grommets are all seated correctly it just leaks out where the hose connects to the "T" ?


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 30, 2010)

i had a tiny drip recently, i fixed it with a good push, perhaps the hose isnt on the tee good enough, like DG said a little more elbow greese. for some of us the added elbow greese is killer, personally i needed like half a bottle of percocets to put these units together, between creeky knees and an even worse back ...forgetaboutit


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## shnkrmn (Jan 30, 2010)

I got tired of the sore fingers and got out a heat gun That worked like magic and they are on tight and aren't going anywhere. leak tight too.



morrisgreenberg said:


> i had a tiny drip recently, i fixed it with a good push, perhaps the hose isnt on the tee good enough, like DG said a little more elbow greese. for some of us the added elbow greese is killer, personally i needed like half a bottle of percocets to put these units together, between creeky knees and an even worse back ...forgetaboutit


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## xceptional (Jan 30, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> I got tired of the sore fingers and got out a heat gun That worked like magic and they are on tight and aren't going anywhere. leak tight too.



screw the hot water and screw the big heat gun i got a quick easy trick that's a old plumbers trick for when they put in the spirnkler systems. USE A LIGHTER TO HEAT THE HOSE! it's quick and easy as hell. just hold the lighter a few inches below the hose and twist the hose constantly. i actually just twist the hose really fast and put the flame right on the hose for about 10 seconds and then it's like putty. all of my hoses are pushed all the way down on the fittings as far as they can go and on both systems i've setup there has never been a leak. 

here is a somewhat recent vid of my setup..
[youtube][movie]
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/p6BiPGz-b-M&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/p6BiPGz-b-M&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/movie][/youtube]


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## xceptional (Jan 30, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> The only thing I really like about it is the sentinal digital controller. When you want to adjust your feeding schedule, having a digital display mounted in your control room ... a little classier than crawling under the tundra to fiddle with the never-convenient dial. Plus, if it had some kind of sensor/alarm for when things aren't going as planned, that would be sweet.
> 
> $599
> http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/gardening_supplies.aspx?request=HORT_SENT_EBB-FLOW&title=Tray%20/%20Reservoir%20/%20Grow%20Systems&type=product



i had a convo a few months back when a buddy was thinking about getting this unit. 

Sentinal makes good products from what i see. in fact the owner is the old owner/designer from CAP i've been told. regardless i would not buy this unit at this time. 

my reason is it needs to be tested out and reviewed throughly before i trust it with my plants. Sentinal has done a good job with controllers but this is a new controller and i want to know the durability and stability of this unit before they get my money. 

also i agree the controller may look better because it's digital but what benefit in digital again?

the cap unit has been on the market for years and works so I'm not looking to change it

i would prefer the Sentinal square buckets though! they are a little bigger i believe and they pack together nice and tight for veg.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 30, 2010)

Would it be too hard for CAP to design the controller so the timer faces up? Definitely the worst design feature. I probably would have bought the sentinel system if I'd heard of it a month ago


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 30, 2010)

i woulda bought the sentinel too, who doesnt like shiney digital things ? one beef i have is i know they thought they were smart but a drain hole directly under a massive root system is a no go, if it dont outright clog the lines, it will slow drainage down considerably, and the performance of this design is all about the drain cycle vacuuming oxygen into the rootzone. if i were to design this system i would make it that so the buckets sit higher on a pedestal like the sentinel system, only drain from the side....love the idea of the lighter, once screwed onto the connectors you basically have a heat shrink, i wish you told me this a while ago


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## smokingrubber (Jan 30, 2010)

Nice video xceptional, +rep.

Couple questions:
1. How long did you veg? Seed or Clone?
2. Nute system?
3. Strain?
4. Supercrop? FEM? Top? They look pretty natural.

That looks like a great height for this system. Thanks for the lighter tip.


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## Wohjew (Jan 30, 2010)

hi ive been eyeballing a one of these sysytems . they are very expensive , but i dont wanna try and make one . 24 plant sites is perfect , but is one res. enough to flood 24 sites with large plants ? or would i be adding water and nutes daily 2 12s work better? the shop vac seems to be the easiest way the clean or flush since i use R/o water and i wouldt be flushing and changing twice in 24hrs . waste of good water . any one use the 24 site or even the 36 site with just one rez? i use tables but i think i wanna try this system


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## smokingrubber (Jan 30, 2010)

The company claims it can run 48 sites. I wouldn't do it though. 24 is the maximum number I would even consider, because I like to have a good gal per plant ratio. 5gal per is perfect imo. They drink water and nutes at approx the same ratio with 5gal per. 

So far, this system has worked very well with my 8 plants. For my next trick, I will use 12 and compare the differences in maintenance. Even with only 8 plants, I have to top off water and nutrients every 3-4 days. I could probably go longer, but I have to dose them with H2o2 every 3 days anyway ... so it's all on the same schedule.


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## boxing119 (Jan 30, 2010)

xceptional- is that a portable a/c unit you have in your grow room, i have been thinking about getting one just because i cant seem to lower the temp of my tent, how does it work?


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## Wohjew (Jan 30, 2010)

is H2O2 a must with this system i hear ppl talking about it with this system , i use growzyme seems to keep pathogens in check and work for me . would you just recommend using 2 12's over the 24 system ? the systems will pay for it self anyhow...


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## smokingrubber (Jan 30, 2010)

Wohjew said:


> is H2O2 a must with this system i hear ppl talking about it with this system , i use growzyme seems to keep pathogens in check and work for me . would you just recommend using 2 12's over the 24 system ? the systems will pay for it self anyhow...


I would probably stick with one system just for convenience. It's no fun to have to buy double nutrient monitors, heaters, chiller, water lines, etc. Then you would have to dose two setups and it's just double the crap you gotta deal with. If the small reservior does pose a problem, I would quickly upgrade to 100 gal reservior but stick with one controller. Just my 2cents.


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## Wohjew (Jan 30, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I would probably stick with one system just for convenience. It's no fun to have to buy double nutrient monitors, heaters, chiller, water lines, etc. Then you would have to dose two setups and it's just double the crap you gotta deal with. If the small reservior does pose a problem, I would quickly upgrade to 100 gal reservior but stick with one controller. Just my 2cents.


 ya that totally sounds better. The 50 gal rez that they come with doest seem enough anyway for 24 i think 80 gal would be perfect . 80 gal works perfect for 4x8 table. thats roughly the same space to fill as the 24 system to me . thanks im sold on this system


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 30, 2010)

Wohjew said:


> hi ive been eyeballing a one of these sysytems . they are very expensive , but i dont wanna try and make one . 24 plant sites is perfect , but is one res. enough to flood 24 sites with large plants ? or would i be adding water and nutes daily 2 12s work better? the shop vac seems to be the easiest way the clean or flush since i use R/o water and i wouldt be flushing and changing twice in 24hrs . waste of good water . any one use the 24 site or even the 36 site with just one rez? i use tables but i think i wanna try this system


i agree with smoking rubber totally, they claim 48 sites is ok but i wouldnt go over 24, once they hit 24 inches they will drink a ton of water daily, too much PH and PPM flux for my taste for the constant top offs. ya know i never thought about this but how does everyone drain the rez? i have every flavor and size pump so i drop a 1700gph in there and thats that, i would get a spare pump or 2 if you run this system. Plantlighting.com has this unit for $399 with like $50 shipping, this unit pisses on table setups fo sho


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## mrduke (Jan 30, 2010)

i drain mine the same way witha 550gph pump. Then i lug the barrel out back to hose it out, and back in to fill with nutes. wish i had a way to drain the leftovers out of the buckets.....anyone?????


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## Wohjew (Jan 30, 2010)

mrduke said:


> i drain mine the same way witha 550gph pump. Then i lug the barrel out back to hose it out, and back in to fill with nutes. wish i had a way to drain the leftovers out of the buckets.....anyone?????


 try a shop vac , thats what im gonna try . also i think using an 80 gal low rez( my table rez)for the 24 site would be great and its easly accessable, not deep like the 55 gal drum . how does that sound


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## doogleef (Jan 30, 2010)

Any rez will do as long as it has at least 2 gallons of water for each pot. 24 sites is about right. You will not use the whole 2 gallons per site as the hydroton takes up about a gallon of space but they will drink quite a bit and having at least 2 gallons per site in the rez helps to avoid chasing PH from adding back water on a daily basis. A low-profile 80 gallon tank rez would be great. 

Shopvac is the BEST way I've found to empty the sites for cleaning. To dump the tank i just pump the water to the drain and rinse the tank, wipe it down with some isoprop, let it evap for about 15 minutes and refill. That and H2O2 keep my system nice and clean.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 30, 2010)

Yeah, the shop vac is great for getting the water out of the pots when the plants are very young. Not so easy when they get 4ft tall. I don't sweat the water in the buckets anymore. I use a 250gph pump and its done in 15 minutes. I refill over-night then dose it in the morning.


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## mrduke (Jan 30, 2010)

what if you were to set the buckets on like a 4" block and let them drain back then do your res change It'd get 80% of the water out.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 30, 2010)

That would remove 4" of your flood height also. I put mine up on 1" upside-down pot trays. 1" is enough.

.


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## morrisgreenberg (Jan 31, 2010)

yo SR, are you aware you got a corpse under your canopy? is that a new predatory insect? oil change? xD


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## justsmoking (Jan 31, 2010)

Thats buitiful man. I just started my 12 pot Jack herer grow with the ebb n grow. I'm on day two from clone


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## mrduke (Jan 31, 2010)

smokin-- i met just left 'em when your doing the res change. do you leave yours lifted all the time start to finish? BTW yours look awsome thats 6 weeks of veg?


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## boxing119 (Jan 31, 2010)

has any one ever used a generator for a bigger grow room my friend is putting in 48 plant site and 6 x 1000w lights and was wondering if it would be smart to use a generator to cut back on the electric bill?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 31, 2010)

mrduke said:


> smokin-- i met just left 'em when your doing the res change. do you leave yours lifted all the time start to finish? BTW yours look awsome thats 6 weeks of veg?


Yeah, they always stay on the risers. Thanks, that picture is after 3 weeks of stretch/flower. I vegged for 5 weeks prior... you can see why I'll only veg for 4 weeks next time


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## mrduke (Jan 31, 2010)

yeah you got that tent stuffed. I run 15 in a 5x9 room with 1-1000 and a 600. got to upgrade the elec. so i can do 2-1000. but i veg to about 14-16". then flip


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## boxing119 (Jan 31, 2010)

mr duke- how much do you tend to yield off only letting your plants veg to about 16". mine are around that size now and was thinking about switching to flower so i wouldnt over fill my tent with too big of plants


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## smokingrubber (Jan 31, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> mr duke- how much do you tend to yield off only letting your plants veg to about 16". mine are around that size now and was thinking about switching to flower so i wouldnt over fill my tent with too big of plants


it depends on the strain. If you let them, tall plants will do all they can to get to the min height thier genes told them to. You just can't tell much by the way they veg (I can't). If you're trying to grow a bush then it's all about the number of side branches you have. Still, a tall plant can go straight "skyscraper" in a matter of days! I've got one plant that looks like 4 RPGs standing in the corner. She was a stone RUNT from day one and I threatened to toss her more than once. But who knew... she looks like she's ready to shoot down any incoming.


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## mrduke (Feb 1, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> mr duke- how much do you tend to yield off only letting your plants veg to about 16". mine are around that size now and was thinking about switching to flower so i wouldnt over fill my tent with too big of plants


 i average between 2-4 oz a plant.4 was some gdp and the lowest was some wack ass fake bubba kush


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## Quemado (Feb 1, 2010)

Ebb & Gro users who are using tents. Do you keep your controller bucket inside or outside the tent?


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## careinthezoo (Feb 1, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Yeah, they always stay on the risers. Thanks, that picture is after 3 weeks of stretch/flower. I vegged for 5 weeks prior... you can see why I'll only veg for 4 weeks next time


Rubber-What size tent are you running? I'm looking to do a 12 site grow that would veg for 6 weeks on average.

-ZOO


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## NEW2DRO (Feb 1, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> i had a tiny drip recently, i fixed it with a good push, perhaps the hose isnt on the tee good enough, like DG said a little more elbow greese. for some of us the added elbow greese is killer, personally i needed like half a bottle of percocets to put these units together, between creeky knees and an even worse back ...forgetaboutit


 dont forget the sore as fuck hands!!! Make sure your hoses are on tight now! I would put them on atleast 2 rings deep.


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## cannabistro (Feb 1, 2010)

Was wondering if this system is too too loud to run in an apartment? What would be the min light if I want to yield 3 lbs? Is 2 600s not enough?


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## mrduke (Feb 1, 2010)

cannabistro said:


> Was wondering if this system is too too loud to run in an apartment? What would be the min light if I want to yield 3 lbs? Is 2 600s not enough?


 it make less noise than flushing your toilet would by far. and i thinkyoud have a better shot with 2 1000's. its a perfect fit for the spare bedroom.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 2, 2010)

with this system a solid run for anyone should be about .5 gram/watt. but if you run a 600watter over a space of 3x3 or 3x4 and aim for 50watts per sqaure foot or 7000 lumens per sqr ft you should get close to 100gr per plant site, depending on strain ofcourse and a veg time of 3weeks on avg... so 4 pots under a 600w in a 3x4 area with no less than 70grams per plant will get you just about 300grams per 600w. the average joe who just assembled the system on his first run with no idea of strain tendancies 3 weeks veg from clone. i prefer 600's over 1k's bcus i prefer not to pack all those lumens (155k) in a tight area like that. i think the goal for anyone after a run or 2 should aim for an LB per square meter (10.7 sqr ft), so a recap 70g min for someone who knows nothing per plant should be expected. if you know your strain and all conditions are good, theres no reason why you shouldnt be pulling atleast a 1/4 # per pot up to 6-8oz per once dialed in


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 2, 2010)

i know so many people who love 1000's but they just dont stack up with 600's, heres why. first off is efficiency, 1000w at 9.5 amps (120v) is giving off 155,000 lumens VS. a 600w at 5.2 amps (120v) giving 95,000 lumens. i would rather has 3 x 600's spread out for better footprint at 1800 watts and about 16amps (almost 300,000 lumens total) than 2 x 1000's at 2000 watts and 19amps with a smaller foot print (315,000 total lumens) all of those lumens dont mean shit when they are mostly concentrated on the plants directly under the lamp, with smaller foot print the plants on the outer edge of your garden will suffer yield-wise. heres another one, if you have those 1000s in air cooled hoods you will still have to keep your hoods higher , you will get light bleaching...this negates the point of air cooled hoods and getting lamps up close right? with a $100 424cfm fan i can comfortably cool 3x 600's in a line or i can go the cheap route and get home depot 6inch duct booster fans $25each to cool each hood. with the 2x1000's you can barely still touch your reflector with a 424cfm fan. well i guess this is how i feel, let me know your thoughts guys, if you can afford to buy an extra ballast do it and go with 600s, you will thank me in the summer when your a/c has to run less


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## doogleef (Feb 2, 2010)

My choice of lighting basically depends on the shape of the space. If it's a rectangular space then a 2 lamp setup makes much more since so you get a good footprint but in a square a single is preferable. Your point about light footprint varies greatly with the choice of reflector and the efficiency and proximity of you side reflective panels. 

As for as 3x600 vs 2x1000, I say if you have the space for 1000s, run em. The bud structure is a better on low growth with the added penetration and intensity. Cooling 3x600 is a bit easier than cooling 2x1000. About 10% easier . Watts are watts when it comes to heat exchange at the bulb. I cool 3x1000 with a single 6" inline 454. I actually have an 8" I can put on later in the year if needed but I hope to have the room sealed + CO2 by then.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 2, 2010)

I wish I had the link, but there was one of those long hid/cfl argument threads in which a cfl'er claimed more lumens than a 600 watt guy because he had so many fixtures. But with a light meter, you can easily find out that two light sources of equal output (say 95,000 lumens) do not emit 190,000 lumens together, in fact it hardly changes the meter reading at all. The hid advocate had a set of pix with his light meter and one, then two cfls held up to the sensor; there was hardly any change. But you are right on everything else; efficiency, spread, heat, 600s are the way to go; bulbs and ballasts are cheaper too

.


morrisgreenberg said:


> i know so many people who love 1000's but they just dont stack up with 600's, heres why. first off is efficiency, 1000w at 9.5 amps (120v) is giving off 155,000 lumens VS. a 600w at 5.2 amps (120v) giving 95,000 lumens. i would rather has 3 x 600's spread out for better footprint at 1800 watts and about 16amps (almost 300,000 lumens total) than 2 x 1000's at 2000 watts and 19amps with a smaller foot print (315,000 total lumens) all of those lumens dont mean shit when they are mostly concentrated on the plants directly under the lamp, with smaller foot print the plants on the outer edge of your garden will suffer yield-wise. heres another one, if you have those 1000s in air cooled hoods you will still have to keep your hoods higher , you will get light bleaching...this negates the point of air cooled hoods and getting lamps up close right? with a $100 424cfm fan i can comfortably cool 3x 600's in a line or i can go the cheap route and get home depot 6inch duct booster fans $25each to cool each hood. with the 2x1000's you can barely still touch your reflector with a 424cfm fan. well i guess this is how i feel, let me know your thoughts guys, if you can afford to buy an extra ballast do it and go with 600s, you will thank me in the summer when your a/c has to run less


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## shnkrmn (Feb 2, 2010)

and where do I get a $100 454cfm fan? I must be looking at expensivefans.com.


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## doogleef (Feb 2, 2010)

www.htgsupply.com has good prices on valueline fans. 

Correct, lumens don't add. If you have 2 flashlights and put the beams together they don't get any brighter. Penetration! Ladies like it deep


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 2, 2010)

i was just gonna say, i got mine from HTG, rock solid for 2 yrs now....as for light penetration i totally agree, but i used to run 1000's and at 12 inches away i would get bleeching, at the same time i did get longer spear shaped colas, now i'm into stout baseballs, i guess to each his own since i do an extreme prune job before flower, i basically lollipop each side branch till theres about 8inches left


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## shnkrmn (Feb 2, 2010)

doogleef said:


> www.htgsupply.com has good prices on valueline fans.
> 
> Correct, lumens don't add. If you have 2 flashlights and put the beams together they don't get any brighter. Penetration! Ladies like it deep


Wow. I never noticed that cheap fan at HTG. CAN and vortex fans are nearly twice as expensive. Are the cheap ones reasonably quiet?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 2, 2010)

Al B Fuct did the lumens meter test and i believe he even tried flashlights and cfls


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 2, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Wow. I never noticed that cheap fan at HTG. CAN and vortex fans are nearly twice as expensive. Are the cheap ones reasonably quiet?


not at all, they are like jet engines....strapped onto larger jet engines....they sell $25 fan speed controllers that help bigtime


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## shnkrmn (Feb 2, 2010)

LOL! Jet engine.

I have a 4 inch vortex fan which is very quiet, but inadequate for cooling two 600s. But it cost $170 or so. I use it to run an equally inadequate carbon filter.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 2, 2010)

you get what u pay for with the vortex, thats quiet operation and you got a good warrentee right? i think my fan has 1yr. anyhows for $190 from HTG you get the fan/filter combo...but for anything larger than a closet that filter does not work well


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## shnkrmn (Feb 2, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> you get what u pay for with the vortex, thats quiet operation and you got a good warrentee right? i think my fan has 1yr. anyhows for $190 from HTG you get the fan/filter combo...but for anything larger than a closet that filter does not work well



Yup, the Vortex has a ten year warranty and it is real quiet. I like that. I guess I'll just spend the dough on a 6 inch vortex. Ah well, don't have to worry about that now. My grow room is 63 degrees.


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## Quemado (Feb 2, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Yup, the Vortex has a ten year warranty and it is real quiet. I like that. I guess I'll just spend the dough on a 6 inch vortex. Ah well, don't have to worry about that now. My grow room is 63 degrees.


I just got 2 6inch Wind Tunnel fans which are reasonably price and are not too loud at all. Im gonna throw a speed controller to make them even quieter. I have gl145 tent and my exhaust fan sucks the hell out of the tent. Lots of negative pressure. Another plus is that the housing is all plastic. Its light. I have one hanging with the filter and the other is to cool my 1000w light. That fan is on top of the tent. Im happier with them than I expected.

Question Ebb & Gro users who are using tents. Do you keep your controller bucket inside or outside the tent?


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## cannabistro (Feb 2, 2010)

THe pics I see mostly have the controller inside. How noisy is the ebb and gro 12?


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## cannabistro (Feb 2, 2010)

Whoops, my last quest was already answered, my short term memory is affected, I wonder why?.... lol


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## smokingrubber (Feb 2, 2010)

Quemado said:


> I just got 2 6inch Wind Tunnel fans which are reasonably price and are not too loud at all. Im gonna throw a speed controller to make them even quieter. I have gl145 tent and my exhaust fan sucks the hell out of the tent. Lots of negative pressure. Another plus is that the housing is all plastic. Its light. I have one hanging with the filter and the other is to cool my 1000w light. That fan is on top of the tent. Im happier with them than I expected.
> 
> Question Ebb & Gro users who are using tents. Do you keep your controller bucket inside or outside the tent?


Since you're talking about fans and such, here's a good tip... adjusted for a 4x4 tent. 

1. Buy a reasonable size fan to run the light exhaust. (150+ cfm)
2. Buy an oversized fan to handle the primary exhaust through the carbon filter. (400+ cfm)
3. Buy a variable speed thermostat controller http://aeroponicsnmore.com/climate-control-ventilation-c-23_5/temp-2v-fan-speed-control-variable-idle-setpoint-p-181

That way, the lights are run seperate and you can put them on a timer or a temp trigger. They're seperate though. The primary exhaust will run at your set idle speed (100-180 cfm) when the temps are normal. If your temeratures gets above your set number, the fan kicks up higher to get the temps down automatically. The controller is about $140 but thats cheaper than an AC.



cannabistro said:


> THe pics I see mostly have the controller inside. How noisy is the ebb and gro 12?


The controller is very quiet. A couple clicks now and then. The controller is inside the tent because the feed lines to the pots all have to be run along the flat ground. Any hump in the line will dam up the flow. Raising the buckets 1" off the ground helps negate this problem also.

The only real sound comes from the bucket. When the system is filling there is a small dribble from the syphon break. As loud as a good leak from about a foot above the water. When the system is draining it will sound like a waterfall unless you put a piece of curled up hose on the inside nipple. Direct the hose toward the barrel wall so that it's peeing on the wall instead of pissing in the middle of the barrel.

EDIT: Be sure the curled hose isn't long enough to reach down to the filled water level. That would cause a backward syphon.


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## boxing119 (Feb 2, 2010)

what kinda nutes are people running im doing the lucas formula right now with just the micro and bloom and thats it, what else do people recommend to run... im a real newbie at all this all the suggestions will be awesome


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 2, 2010)

you know i was recently racking my brain to choose another nutrient company, then i realize botanicare PBP is the SHIT! i just hate the liquid karma so i only use it for the first rez after x-plant. all you need is PBP and cal-mag and if your a baller like me you use sweet for energy boost, throughout my whole career i always had deficiencies and burns, i recently tried a rez of BC nutes and quickly learned how good PBP is. when i first chose PBP i looked at ingredients, nice seabird guanoa kelps fish/bone meals and extra chemical ferts, this is not 100% organic...then the non plant ingredients put this product over the top, you have raw cane sugar, silica and humic acid .....these are 3 seperate bottle you would have to buy if using another brand. so what it can get a little messy and stinky and you might never get your hosing fully cleaned, the plants love it


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## boxing119 (Feb 2, 2010)

is it just the PBP grow and bloom that you use, and just follow the bottles regimen, and who makes the cal mag


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## GreenT16 (Feb 2, 2010)

How many pots do you recommend using with the ebb and gro. I mean it says 48 and I would guess you might be able to get 36 with low ppm qualities but for the plants that like the 2.1 EC. How many plants do you run??


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 2, 2010)

Cal-mag plus is made by botanicare, but many others make a calmag supplement for thier own lines, its usually a 2-0-0 so the extra nitrogen boost is great for all phases, especially if in flowering, using bloom nutes and you see some early yellowing, you can run calmag at full strength and sort that out, it also has iron in it. most people who run R/O systems need to use cal-mag or they will go deficient. GreenT, we had a pretty large discussion about pot numbers, go back a few pages in this thread, if you thumb thru this thread you will have every single question answered


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## doogleef (Feb 2, 2010)

PBP would be SO much better if it had some Mg in the base nute. It pisses me off to be forced into buying additives to make a complete feed. 

Dynagro makes nice complete nutes. 

I used lucas for a long time. It works ok. I got the occasional nitrogen and micro def so watch for that and up the N accordingly.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 3, 2010)

i been blessed with good big city tap water(40ppm) and even before i tried PBP i always had cal-mag in the arsenal. one thing i used to stress to people that always complained about yellow leaves falling off during the first 2 weeks of flower was to use veg nutes until 3 weeks flowering for the plants still need that nitro, but you can start feeding flower nutes the day of the flip with added calmag. all too often noobs would change to bloom nutes to early and go thru dead yellow leaves, this kills the yield. one other thing in hydroponics thats overlooked is iron deficiencies, hydro growers rely on magdrive pumps, people who run chillers have to have an extra pump on 24/7, over time without the use of cal-mag the iron falls out


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## GreenT16 (Feb 3, 2010)

Hello Everyone. I'm new to RIU. However I do have knowledge of the plant and I have started to understand this system with the help of everyone. Here is my plan or situation. The reason I'm posting is because I'm looking for information related to my exact cicumstances. The first thing is the purchasing of the system. I like the idea of the Sentine Modular Ebb and Grow which can be converted into drain to waste and complete drainage. However the 600 price tag does not include a rez. Thats okay though.Money isnt the issue the best system is what Im seeking. The room is twenty feet long by 4 feet wide. Can I go three wide with buckets that have the Power Plant?Or do they really need to be 10" Apart from eachother? Ideally I would like to have 30 pots for Power Plant and 16 pots for another strain??? Any comments or Questions?


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## GreenT16 (Feb 3, 2010)

I would be using two different reservoirs with two different controllers for the flood and drain. And in the room will be 6 600 watt lights with digital lumateks. c02 at 1500ppm GH Nutes. AC. 8"Max Can Man. 3 18" Wall Mounted Fans, Enviorment Controller, adjust a wings with super spreaders... Just want to know how far apart the parts really need to be or if i can have them touching eachother. With the 30 or more plants i would use a 100 gallon rez


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 3, 2010)

this system is best used for growing out larger plants, your not leaving yourself much room for maintenance if they are crowded together, you can touch pots but under canopy airflow will be restricted big time making room for problems that you wont be able to see until its too late. since the average user of these units veg atleast 2 weeks we all end up with 3ft plants and up, this is going to create significant sidebranching during flowering and the plants will be encroaching into its neighbor's space. the whole purpose of this system is freedom and flexibilty, you can have your pots touching in a SoG setup, but i would advise you to use flood tables for a sog. its my preference to have one pot in atleast a 2x2 space, so if i had your area i would go no more than 2 pots deep instead of 3, depending on strain that wont even be enough as i got some whiteberry buched out and they go like 3ft wide. plants grow fast and furious in these systems so expect tons of side growth, you can cut your hosing into a grid so each pot instead of being daisy chained can run of its own line from a few central hoses, this way you can bunch them together early and veg under less light and spread them apart as they get larger


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## mrduke (Feb 3, 2010)

doogleef said:


> PBP would be SO much better if it had some Mg in the base nute. It pisses me off to be forced into buying additives to make a complete feed.
> 
> Dynagro makes nice complete nutes.
> 
> ...


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## shnkrmn (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm using foliage pro now and can't say enough good things about it. It's clean, cheap and concentrated. And it has more cal-mag than cannabis-specific nutes. I'm not using any cal-mag supplement with RO water and have seen no deficiencies since I started using foliage pro. I may not use a bloom formula at all.


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## COgrow (Feb 3, 2010)

New guy here about to start first grow. I've spent a ton of time on this thread but got some GREAT meds today and can't find an answer. Hoping for help. 
How much water should I use for the 12 pot set up with hydrotron 3" from the top? 6x6 expandable room with 1000w hps. (I made the investment, now time to make it work!)


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## COgrow (Feb 3, 2010)

dont forget the sore as fuck hands!!! Make sure your hoses are on tight now! I would put them on atleast 2 rings deep.[/QUOTE]

That's what she said!


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## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

COgrow said:


> New guy here about to start first grow. I've spent a ton of time on this thread but got some GREAT meds today and can't find an answer. Hoping for help.
> How much water should I use for the 12 pot set up with hydrotron 3" from the top? 6x6 expandable room with 1000w hps. (I made the investment, now time to make it work!)


For a 6x6 room I would use 9 pots. I would fill the reservior with 45 gallons (5 gal per). I would veg them in that pot system for about 4 weeks. I would also probably veg 12 but toss or mother 3 of them. Just to be sure I got the best 9.

Tip: use a float shut-off valve on the barrel to achieve a consistant 45 gal. Then you can isolate the perfect nute recipe and repeat it consistantly.


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## mrduke (Feb 3, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> I'm using foliage pro now and can't say enough good things about it. It's clean, cheap and concentrated. And it has more cal-mag than cannabis-specific nutes. I'm not using any cal-mag supplement with RO water and have seen no deficiencies since I started using foliage pro. I may not use a bloom formula at all.


You think you'll run the foliage in bloom by itself or add a booster like koolbloom or bigbud ect. ? 

I got togo shopping andsee if i can find it locally. how long will a quart last, will it make a whole cycle, 10 weeks?


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## shnkrmn (Feb 3, 2010)

mrduke said:


> You think you'll run the foliage in bloom by itself or add a booster like koolbloom or bigbud ect. ?
> 
> I got togo shopping andsee if i can find it locally. how long will a quart last, will it make a whole cycle, 10 weeks?


at 1/2 to 1 teaspoons/gallon it could last you depending on your needs.

I'm sitting on the fence right now about what to do in bloom. The plants I've got that just entered bloom are in the stretch right now and I'm still giving them foliage pro.. I've got a few products lying around including tiger bloom and whatever the bloom formula is that came in the 'recipe for success' from techniflora. I may go all the way with just the foliage pro. Anyway, those are in hempy buckets, so they're off topic for this thread. I'm kind of pretending I'm not actually growing them It's a process.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 3, 2010)

So I'm thinking about the coming warm months and res temps and how to manage them. I've always wanted a chest freezer and they are cheep, like 200 bucks. So if I put a copper coil in one and attached it to a pump inside my res, and my freezer was filled with deeply frozen stuff, would that work? It says it costs 37 dollars a year to run and i'm liking that. I haven't run across any setups like that. Seems like a diy water chiller could be had for little outlay. would it freeze up? Just thinking out loud here.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

Or you could just freeze water bottles and rotate 2 or 3 a day?

Controlling your diy chiller would be a bitch imo. If you slowed down the water flow it would freeze. Finding balance between the amount of time it was in the reservior vs in your freezer... that's above my pay grade.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 3, 2010)

no copper coils in water, ever see city building with green roofs? those roofs used to be copper and water and oxygemn turn them green, no metals in your water, hopefull you can bust out a crop and go pick up a polar bear 1/3HP chiller for like $400, this best investment you can make and its an insurance policy...this is my homeboy, dont buy those 1/10hp chillers for 500.....http://www.aquastealth.com/chillers.aspx he also has aqua via pumps for like 15beans to go with them


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## doogleef (Feb 4, 2010)

I was unable to get the foliage pro where i shop so I just got the grow/bloom. Just started on em a few weeks ago. So far I love it. I also picked up the Pro-Tect 0-0-3 (silica) additive and the Mag-Pro. The mag pro is really high K additive so I'm kinda scared of it. We shall see. Labels are in this album:

http://s851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/ruidoogleef/

http://www.dyna-gro.com

EDIT: What I might try is just grow formula at about 2.0EC for veg then back off the grow formula to about 1.5EC and add a PK booster (more K, less P) for bloom. I like efficient.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 4, 2010)

You guys are the greatest. I still want the chest freezer, well, for freezing stuff like water bottles to put in my res!

I just was thinking it would be nice to have it do double duty in an automated way.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 4, 2010)

you guys love your dynagro big time ehh? if you never had it for my sake pick up a qt of PBP and cal mag, if you wanna splurge p/u sweet to, they are only 17bucks a qt, i promise you will never have seen healthy plants like this in your life, i will buy back your nutes if you dont like them. believe me i am a dynagro fan and i used everything except canna and AN
PBP + E&G = healthiest, tasties buds you ever had, i swear the guano in PBP make the hydro plant taste soil grown


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## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 4, 2010)

COgrow said:


> New guy here about to start first grow. I've spent a ton of time on this thread but got some GREAT meds today and can't find an answer. Hoping for help.
> How much water should I use for the 12 pot set up with hydrotron 3" from the top? 6x6 expandable room with 1000w hps. (I made the investment, now time to make it work!)


I believe it is best to just fill the reservoir to about 50 gallons. You dont have to top off the reservoir as often or adjust the PH every day because the extra solution acts as a buffer. Your PPM will drift a lot less with more solution. When it is coming up on time to change it out, dont top if off or add nutes for a few days, it will drop down to half full in 3 or 4 days. That way you dont throw out huge amounts of solution.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 4, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> you guys love your dynagro big time ehh? if you never had it for my sake pick up a qt of PBP and cal mag, if you wanna splurge p/u sweet to, they are only 17bucks a qt, i promise you will never have seen healthy plants like this in your life, i will buy back your nutes if you dont like them. believe me i am a dynagro fan and i used everything except canna and AN
> PBP + E&G = healthiest, tasties buds you ever had, i swear the guano in PBP make the hydro plant taste soil grown


I'm still in the honeymoon phase with dynagro, but the sex is great!


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## boxing119 (Feb 4, 2010)

morrisgreenberg- im sorry im a bit of a newbie but i want to switch my nutes to the PBP but im not sure what to get when i go to the hydro storm can you just simply tell me everything im supposed ti get lol, im a little under 3 weeks into veg and just not sure what i should be running


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## boxing119 (Feb 4, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC-zWp04cDM - my basement in a couple of months


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## JosephMama (Feb 4, 2010)

Hey everyone i have read this thread from beginning to end.

I see you guys are doing some excellent things with this system. I on the other hand seem to be having pretty big issues so far. I have had tow crops fail (by fail i mean i got almost nothing out of the system I cut down the last crop completely). 

Starting around week three the leaves will start to turn yellowing and getting paler the leaves will get some necrosis on the ends and get real soft and curl down. I have asked some guys over at icmag and even had a few of my good friends try and help. I have pictures and a thread going over at icmag.com 

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=152860

There are pictures and stats there. I figured that maybe you guys could help as you are getting really good results with this system. Humidity seems to be getting higher as the plants get bigger could this cause less nutrient uptake because the plant can not transpire enough water?

Please help im wrecking my brain on this one


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## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

Well it's not the system's fault imo. When did you switch to RO water? House and Garden nutes? With good RO water and better nutes you should have no problems. Your temps and humidity are fine.

How often and how long are your floods? How often are you changing the rez? Using H2o2?


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## shnkrmn (Feb 4, 2010)

there have been some House and Garden spammers on RIU lately, clearly trying to create a buzz about their products. Probably doing it on other forums too. I just went to their website. Anything but clarity on what exactly is in their stuff. I'm on RIU enough to notice when new words or products suddenly start popping up in every thread. Roots excelurator is one product I've been hearing alot about, now I know where it's coming from.

Josephmama, I read your thread and looked at your pix. There's definitely a nutrient lockout going on and since you've switched to RO, either your plants were toast before that switch, or your House and Garden stuff is just not working for you. I'd definitely switch that out. It's not the system, now it's not your water. . You mentioned EC, but do you monitor and control pH? If you do, maybe your meter is broken, if you don't, well, you should.

This happens three weeks into FLOWERING? Like clockwork? That's when plants start screaming for extra magnesium. Looking at your plants as a whole, and not just the really bad leaves (and allowing for the HPS effect) it looks like quite a lot of your plant is showing intervenal chlorosis and tip burn. If they were turning crispy and crinkling upwards I'd say definitely mag def. You COULD try an epsom salts foliar treatment. Now that you are using RO water, there is probably not enough Cal or Mag (since House and Garden doesn't give guaranteed analyses of their products it's impossible to say.) It couldn't hurt. Certainly has saved my butt in the past.

Find Uncle Ben on this forum, show him your pix. He'll kick your ass and put you on the right track. HTH.


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## JosephMama (Feb 4, 2010)

Ok here is the deal on the plants and the nutrients and what im doing

1) EC and PH are both checked daily with hannah pens I also use the PH test kit where you drop a few drops in the sample and it will tell you your PH range by color

2)The leaves do not actually get crispy they curl more downward and get kinda soft and light. 

3) that was my old crop in the pictures this new crop looked AMAZING until a few days ago and started showing the same issues. 
(i will post some more pix here as soon as i can get by there later today)

4) I have been using house and garden for at least 2years without ever seeing this issue. I have plants on an aeroflo that look amazing that are older than these running same nutrients and same RO'd water. While i am not discounting that it may be the nutrients I have never had issue in the past. All my containers seem to have a guaranteed analysis on them

5) my floods are every 4hours or so for 15min nothing in the dark cycle

6) the REZ was staged to be changed at the end of week three but i changed it at end of week two cuz i started noticing a little yellowing figured maybe they had sucked up all the nutrients as i had noticed the EC dropping a good bit along with the water level. I do have a big air pump pumping into the reservoir. During this change the EC was brought up to 2000 from around 1500 - 1700 week two started out at 1700 and dropped pretty quick to 1500

7) one guy told me that being as my room is sealed that i need to add some fresh air intakes. Could a lack of fresh air cause this? 

I have noticed my humidity coming up into the 60%+ range recently prolley goin up higher at night cuz it cools off. I will have more concrete info later today

Oh and thanks for the amazingly fast responses.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 4, 2010)

Ebb and Grow is so easy we have nothing else to do

Actually, what do I know, you've grown more in this system than I!

Two questions;

if you look at the two bottles of House and Garden (I assume you are using Aqua Flakes a + b which is intended for recirculating systems; hydro a+b is for drain to waste systems) what percentages do you see for calcium and magnesium? I see they also have a cal-mag supplement and if the a+b doesn't have enough, because you are using RO water, you'll have to supplement with that (or any other cal-mag supplement).

o you calibrate your meters regularly? I just replaced mine and when I compared the new one and the old one side by side (after calibrating) they did not agree, not even close, and since I've been using the new meter, I've seen far less spotting, yellowing, etc. Of course, that could be cause of new nutes, new medium, new system too. I used the old meter, a hanna combo pen, for almost two years and even though I didn't replace the probe, I should have. I just didn't want to spend that 50. I've learned my lesson. In this game, buy the gear; it will always pay you back.


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## JosephMama (Feb 4, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Ebb and Grow is so easy we have nothing else to do
> 
> Actually, what do I know, you've grown more in this system than I!
> 
> ...



LOL actually i have sucessfully grown in only the one system so far ;o) i would not consider what i have done with the Ebb and Grow much of a sucess

SO yeah I am not using a MG supplement or a Cal supplement on my aeroflow or my ebb and grow I was but i was told that A has more than enough iron in it but im seriously beginning to think its a Mg diff. 

I calibrate my meter regularly (weekly) i also double check with the GH drip solution that changes the liquid colors for PH comparison against a chart (kinda like for fish tanks) . 

Now you have me wondering please stay with me and tell me what you think....

Could it be that the reason im not having problems with the aeroflo and MG diff is that because the aeroflo is constantly cycling nutrients that even tho there may be very little Mg in the rez that the plant never shows a diff cuz its constantly pumping water and can pull on what is in the whole rez where the Ebb and Grow just floods that 2gal bucket and thus if the water is low in Mg it gets sucked out immediately causing this diff ??? possible?


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## JosephMama (Feb 4, 2010)

Actually i was just on their site i did not see any MG or Cal additives advertised 

Tho on this link from their distributer http://www.humboldtwholesale.com/House_Garden/AquaFlakesAB

I saw this : Contrary to what you might have heard with other nutrients, never use an oxygen pump in the nutrient container or in the growth table. This may have serious consequences for the stability of the nutrients.


This means no fish pump??? I got MASSIVE fish pumps...

if this could be the cause then
why did it wait til week three to cause issues??


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## shnkrmn (Feb 4, 2010)

JosephMama said:


> LOL actually i have sucessfully grown in only the one system so far ;o) i would not consider what i have done with the Ebb and Grow much of a sucess
> 
> SO yeah I am not using a MG supplement or a Cal supplement on my aeroflow or my ebb and grow I was but i was told that A has more than enough iron in it but im seriously beginning to think its a Mg diff.
> 
> ...


I can't argue with your thinking; it sounds very plausible to me. In the aeroflo the roots are probably exposed to several gallons of solution per hour; in the ebb and grow, they have to make do with the flood and remaining moisture.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 4, 2010)

You are right, I was confused with some other shopping I'm doing 

Maybe they mean literally to bubble oxygen into the water; who knows what the dutch get up to? IIf they mean just a regular old airstone type oxygenating the water, how would the aeroflo not have an even greater problem since its whole action is one great big aeration?



JosephMama said:


> Actually i was just on their site i did not see any MG or Cal additives advertised
> 
> Tho on this link from their distributer http://www.humboldtwholesale.com/House_Garden/AquaFlakesAB
> 
> ...


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## JosephMama (Feb 4, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> You are right, I was confused with some other shopping I'm doing
> 
> Maybe they mean literally to bubble oxygen into the water; who knows what the dutch get up to? IIf they mean just a regular old airstone type oxygenating the water, how would the aeroflo not have an even greater problem since its whole action is one great big aeration?


Yeah i just got off the phone with the guys at house and garden and was told it was the dutch guys who said that and they use air stones in the states with no problems that it has a tendency to kill off the beneficials in the root excellurator

I may up the floods to every 3 hours instead of every 4 and see what happens?? I mean i got beautiful roots coming out of the bottoms of the buckets at week 2

I will post pix from today when i get a out of here and can take a few


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## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

You said you've got no fresh air Do you have Co2?


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## JosephMama (Feb 4, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> You said you've got no fresh air Do you have Co2?



nope I had vent holes with a fan but they got shut down by someone else when my fan died im thinking of disconnecting the straight thru hoses on my vent system for the lights. 

IOW the intake holes for outside the room -> lights will be disconnected from the lights this will allow the vented hoods to pull air from inside the room and vent it out and the old intake vents for the lights will bring in fresh air to the room. That would approximate a good test ?

I will take pix of the vent set up (before and after) and post as well


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## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

JosephMama said:


> nope I had vent holes with a fan but they got shut down by someone else when my fan died im thinking of disconnecting the straight thru hoses on my vent system for the lights.
> 
> IOW the intake holes for outside the room -> lights will be disconnected from the lights this will allow the vented hoods to pull air from inside the room and vent it out and the old intake vents for the lights will bring in fresh air to the room. That would approximate a good test ?
> 
> I will take pix of the vent set up (before and after) and post as well


I am having a hard time reading a lot of that. But I can tell you that you definately need a good supply of fresh air from outdoors (or a Co2 tank). I would not hesitate to make that change asap.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 4, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> morrisgreenberg- im sorry im a bit of a newbie but i want to switch my nutes to the PBP but im not sure what to get when i go to the hydro storm can you just simply tell me everything im supposed ti get lol, im a little under 3 weeks into veg and just not sure what i should be running[/QU
> Botanicare's Pure Blend pro (not to be confused with "pure blend") is a one part stand alone solution, the cal-mag is especially needed if your using RO water or really low ppm out of the faucet(under 100ppm) in most cases the ppms in tap water is your basic calcium and magnesium, higher ppms is hard water, you probably can get away without the calmag, but i prefer calmag since it has a nitrogen boost in it, also good when you kick into bloom to prevent premature yellowing of the leaves(8-9week strains should see this yellowing at 6weeks) heres my reciple PBP grow,CALmag,Sweet and liquid karma, the sweet and LK are like 70 a gallon compared to $49 for the PBP, liqiud karma is basicaly thrivealive made out of kelp and vitamins, its very good for soaking your RW for clones and seedlings, i mix my LK along with 500ppm worth of PBP at transplant, ontop of that i give 1/2 dose of calmag 5ml/gal, after the first res full i discontinue the LK and run sweet and PBP and calmag, this stuff is very eay on your plants, i have yet to burn a single leafe using this stuff. i would have started using PBP line soon but it had a gaurenteed analysis of only N-P-K-cal-Mag i was was like where the hells the molybdenum,mangenese zinc and all that, well all the micro nutrients are in there but they will not put them on the label since they cannont gaurentee the percentages, they are very tiny amount, thats why they are trace minerals, but they are all there, this line is made from half organics and half chems, i swear by it


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 4, 2010)

Joseph, the first pic if a phosph or potsh Def, i dont remember which but its clear to me, the next one looks like light bleaching, the last one i will agree with whoever said the plant is screaming for Mag, especially since you recently started using an Ro unit, add calmag, but before you do that, your plants have had around 8-9 weeks of life between veg and flower right? FLUSH YOUR SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! every 4 weeks or atleast once right before you start adding bloom nutes, for a fast sampl test to let you know whats going on take a water sample from the bottom of one of your buckets and compare the PH and nute strength vs your original fresh res strength, if they are off by say 200-300ppm (not sure on EC conversions) then you need a flush, maybe florakleen or clearex...if you have a flushing solution do not listen to the lable, our systems need a minimum of 24 hour flush or around 8 flood cycle, you will know when you can dump your flushing solution when the EC/ppm stops rising, check your EC after each flood cycle and they will be on the rise do to salts collecting on the clay pellets i assume you use, this will skew your rootzone PH causing lockouts, i can assure you this is what you need to do since this is almost routine and just about sounds right, 3 weeks into flower with added veg time you will have major salt build up, also i dont like your nute strenght aswell i believe an EC of 2.0 converts to about 1200ppm, depending on strain this may be the height of your feed thus giving you a hint of nute burn aswell. so remember, excesive salts binded to your medium will cause lockout


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## shnkrmn (Feb 4, 2010)

YAY! The cavalry has arrived!!!

lol


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## JosephMama (Feb 4, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> YAY! The cavalry has arrived!!!
> 
> lol



ok here are some pix taken a few hours ago

morrisgreenberg I have taken samples from both the rez and the pots EC and PH are almost identical. Up until my friend raised the EC to 2000 it was dropping the EC by a few hundred points every few days. Now not so much... I brought it down a good bit today and I will be replacing with clear water for a few days on friday. I will say the plants looked darker green than the last time i saw them. 

I talked to the tech support at House and Garden and was told that they are designed to be used with RO water that no additives were needed. They were thinking that it is overfertalization. I dunno I agree that 2000 EC is a bit high at 3weeks flowering. 

They have only been in these pots for 3 weeks by the way. I had them in 4'' square pots in a flood table before that for about 4 weeks at about 1100 - 1200 EC i think that is about 500 - 600 PPM
Transplanted into these buckets when i switched the light cycle to 12/12 that has been about 18Days. I had the flood cycle at every 4 hours but I was thinking maybe they are sucking up all the nutrients in there. At 18 days if you try and pull on the stalk it will try and bring up all the rox in one chunk. That is how they came out of the 4" pots as well.

Also the leaves in the pics are not crunchy they are soft and papery feeling. 

more pix to follow...


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## mrduke (Feb 4, 2010)

next time you should veg in the buckets. It makes the root form like the bottom of the bucket and keeps them from hanging out the bottom to much, they'll clump up at the bottom of the inner pot. At the very least veg for one week in the buckets. I have no ideal if this has anything to do with your leaf problems but I'm sure it will help your final out come.


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## JosephMama (Feb 4, 2010)

mrduke said:


> next time you should veg in the buckets. It makes the root form like the bottom of the bucket and keeps them from hanging out the bottom to much, they'll clump up at the bottom of the inner pot. At the very least veg for one week in the buckets. I have no ideal if this has anything to do with your leaf problems but I'm sure it will help your final out come.



I should try that...
I will say when i took the plants out of the pots the roots were shaped like the pot one nice beautiful white clump. They had roots coming out of the bottom also. I think these are starting to get that way when you look thru the holes you can see a ton of them up in there


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## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

You need fresh air or a supply of Co2 ... duh


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## boxing119 (Feb 4, 2010)

morrisgreenberg- thanks for all your help, im gonna run to the hydro store tomo and give them a try, if im running the gh line right now will the plants be affected if i just switch them out with PBP, i have been vegging for 3 weeks and was gonna flip to flower clear out the rez give it a good cleaning the start with the new nutes, do you add anything else to the plants thru out the flower stage besides th PBP, Cal-mag and the sweet?


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## boxing119 (Feb 4, 2010)

also do you use both the PBP grow + bloom or just the bloom in the flower stage and grow in the veg stage?


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## JosephMama (Feb 4, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> You need fresh air or a supply of Co2 ... duh



Yeah i fixed that too as long as i was there


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## shnkrmn (Feb 4, 2010)

Your new pix definitely look like a mag problem. The only reason they aren't crispy leaves is because of your high humidity and lack of fresh air.

Like stale potato chips


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## justsmoking (Feb 4, 2010)

Can somone here help me with my flood and drain times. I'm using the ebb n grow 12 pot system and have had 12 plants in for one week with every 12 hours flood and draining. Should I increase that or Waite till the roots show out the iner pot then increase to 3 times a day?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

dude thats a bonafide phosphorous def, fo sho, ofcourse the tech at HG said that, because if Hand G made a cal-mag supplement he would have told you to use it, especially in an RO system, i dont have an RO system 40ppm water and if i slack for one second i will have a slower cal def and an immediate mag def in days, now as for the dropping nute strength, thats frucking fantastic!!!! its better that it goes down than going up, this shows your plants are taking up nutrients faster than water and are hungry and ready for the next step. that being said, a wise old hippy on here told me this....WHEN IN DOUBT FLUSH IT OUT! flush with plain PH'd water for 24 hours and resume feeding at ec 1.6, and if she drops from there bump up the nute strength and make sure your meters are good and calibrated...i just took a look and read you do not have fresh air? if your not bringing in fresh air you must supplement with co2, plants dont need fresh air, they need the minimum levels of co2 that come in with the air. these are fast growing plants, and with co2, light water and minerals will photosynthesis occur, the plants need these element to create the energy to grow and thrive via the production of carbs, you can hinder this energy production bigtime if one of those elemnts is not abundant, plain and simple


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

for everyone with dropping/rising ppms looky here for a second, most people add more and more nutes just because the plants are getting bigger, this is not cool, you would say to yourself 1000ppm isnt much, well i had Big Buhdda blue cheese nute burn at 1000ppm, 900ppm was her sweet spot, meaning i found the right balance of even when the tank went down the strenght stayed the same, now whiteberry on the otherhand is a heavy hog, 1200ppm is a joke with her, so its all about learning your strains and know what kind of habbits they have. i am sure many of you guys on here have stopped in on Earl's threads before, i got this feeding method from him, i slowly learned not to push my plnats, theres no need only because they will take precisly what they need when they need it, just make sure its in the tank and available to them(PH in range) and thats that


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

justsmoking said:


> Can somone here help me with my flood and drain times. I'm using the ebb n grow 12 pot system and have had 12 plants in for one week with every 12 hours flood and draining. Should I increase that or Waite till the roots show out the iner pot then increase to 3 times a day?


if you have well rooted clones, place them 1/2 above the flood line, this is key because if on every flood cycle the RW or peatpuck or whatever you use to starts new plants is always wet, your young plant may show signs of overwatering up until she is no longer depending of the RW for moisture, i always have done it like this and as soon as transplant i run a 15min flood every 4 hours, once i see rapid root growth and rapid plant growth all i do is change it to a 30min cycle every 3 hours...30mins are used when you have more than 20 pots on your rez, see what works for you, if you notice the plants looking unhappy in anyway like a droop or clawing effect it may be overwatered and take a step back on floods


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## JosephMama (Feb 5, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Your new pix definitely look like a mag problem. The only reason they aren't crispy leaves is because of your high humidity and lack of fresh air.
> 
> Like stale potato chips



Ok i have fixed the fresh air situation

Flush will start today 

I think for some reason my friend added a bit more A nutrient than B nutrient and if i recall from reading their site B is where the MAG is B is also the potassium. Ding ding ding i think we may have a winner.
I put in 500ML of A and i think for some stupid reason he put in 475ML of B (Some guy said more A than B to him grrrrrrr)

I will report back with results


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

this makes sense, i have no knowledge of the product, one thing i can tell you is that the major nutes N-P-K are mobile elements, if one is outa whack you will know about it pretty fast, for instance calcium is slower moving thru the plant so it will take a little time before you know you need it aswell as it takes time to fix up, mag in im experiences moves fast, so when dealing with low ppm water i use it before i see a deficiency


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## boxing119 (Feb 5, 2010)

morrisgreenberg- thanks for all your help, im gonna run to the hydro store tomo and give them a try, if im running the gh line right now will the plants be affected if i just switch them out with PBP, i have been vegging for 3 weeks and was gonna flip to flower clear out the rez give it a good cleaning the start with the new nutes, do you add anything else to the plants thru out the flower stage besides th PBP, Cal-mag and the sweet? also do you use both the PBP grow + bloom or just the bloom in the flower stage and grow in the veg stage?


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## Quemado (Feb 5, 2010)

Amateur question. But the rockwool is always to be above the flood line never below right? So it never gets wet.


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## boxing119 (Feb 5, 2010)

just uploaded my album, my leaves are turning a little yellow now on some plants and my, sour D doesnt seem to be growing with the rest of the plants, or not even as close to as quick, it seems like all the pants in the corner of the tents grow 5x faster, why would that be.... take a look at my pics and all tips will be awesome


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## boxing119 (Feb 5, 2010)

yeah the rw is supposed to stay above the flood line to prevent the rw from getting mold or other stuff is what i was told


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## smokingrubber (Feb 5, 2010)

Quemado said:


> Amateur question. But the rockwool is always to be above the flood line never below right? So it never gets wet.


My floods soak the bottom inch of my 4" rockwool. I have not had a problem that I know of. I could be doing it wrong, but why fix what ain't broke?


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## boxing119 (Feb 5, 2010)

any tips on how to keep my tent temp down?


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## doogleef (Feb 5, 2010)

Boxing, if your temps are too high in the tent there is only 1 real solution. Get a bigger exhaust fan.


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## boxing119 (Feb 5, 2010)

i have a 435 cfm fan cooling my lights with 35 degree air from out side, and that still doesnt do the trick i have to leave my doors open so heat can get out. but even with the doors always open, taking in cold out side air and to fans going inside the tent it is still a task to keep below 80


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## doogleef (Feb 5, 2010)

435cfm ... I'm betting that is a duct booster fan? If so, those fans ratings are total bullshit. They do not work worth a damn once you put ducting or any kind of static pressure against the airflow. Centrifugal fans or squirrel cages are MUCH more effective. 

Also, Is you exhaust just going into the same room as the tent? If this is happening the exhaust air is being pulled right back in.


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## boxing119 (Feb 5, 2010)

no i have my duct work going from the open window through my inline fan through both cool tube than into an empty closet... the air being sucked through is really cold i think 2 x 1000 watt lights may just be too much for my 4x8 tent?
its not a duct booster fan i know what your talking about, i have an inline fan and it seems to work very well....


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

how about trying this, disconnect your hood from the cold air window right, leave it open ended but leave your fan on the other side of the hoods so it sucks hot air from the hood and room. actually you can have your fan blow/push air thru the hoods or suck, as long as its open ended on one side you will achieve amazing negative pressure, the negative pressure will draw a very strong breese thru your duct and will circulate thru your grow tent and exit thru the hoods, so instead of using that nice 35F air to Only cool your hoods it will cool the entire room. that 435cfm is at its limits with 2000w, i bet you struggle to keep it under 87 right? this is only an issue if your injecting co2, but i suggest you shut off the co2 if you have it and let the fresh air whirl around in your grow, for a little added safty you can go to home depot or lowes and pick up a HEPA filter replacement for an air purifier, they are like $13. problem solved and enjoy your 75F room =)


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## smokingrubber (Feb 5, 2010)

You're sucking air from the window, warming it up by putting it through the hoods, then blowing that hot air into your house? Is that right? Where is your carbon filter?

I will assume that you have a carbon filter inside the top of the tent sucking out hot air? Put your hood in between the carbon filter and the exhaust fan. Then blow that air outside. Your intake fan doesn't need to be that big, but you can put a speed controller on it to adjust the amount of cold air your blowing into your house. Inside your tent should be about 5 degrees warmer than outside the tent if you set it up like that.

Here is a VERY good guide of various configurations that will work. Some good illustrations too. http://www.jasons-indoor-guide-to-organic-and-hydroponics-gardening.com/exhaust-fan-setup.html


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

Quemado said:


> Amateur question. But the rockwool is always to be above the flood line never below right? So it never gets wet.


yes, a freshly rooted clone or seedling is most likely dependant on the starting media(RW) for water, if it is constantly soaked it will deprive that very fragile and young root system of oxygen, a good 1/2inch isnt much, but think about it, your plant wouldnt be ready for transplant unless it has an inch or 2 of roots, just as important roots act like scavengers, this will encourage them to go and seek out water sources, with the water coming to the roots too often will slow down root growth and in essence become lazy


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

Boxing, dont go run out and spend money on my account, i used GH flora series too and i seen so many people have good results, i hate the stuff and i tried lucas, label dose and another recipe, all i ever had were unstable PHand PPM, nute burns and deficiencies, and found myself with a new issue every week which led to a flush, within 10hours the PH would go from 5.5. to 7.0 and i would have salt everywhere. for my exact recipe i go..... 

new rooted clones

10ml/gal PBP grow 
5ml/gal Cal-Mag
10ML/gal Liquid Karma
8ML/gal Hygrozyme
First res is 900ppm but 500ppm of this is PBP grow, everything else is soft, LK wont harm your plants and that cal-mag doesnt add much ppm anyways

once growth starts going faster i go by judgment, my plants speak to me so i add only 5ml/gal of PBP grow and if i see a little yellowing depending on plant size i may have to up the cal-mag to 10ML/gal, but after first res i dont use LK

Mid size Veg
these numbers are bare minimums, strain dependant may want more food

15ml/gal PBP grow
5ml cal-mag
5ml sweet
8ml hygrozyme
keep in mind sweet is $70 a gallon plus PBP has raw cane sugar in it, so i dont use much of it yet, i kick it up a notch during larger veg max out at 10ml/gal, and i only use hygrozyme on res changeouts, i dont top of with it or addback, when i need to addback i do so at 25% of my original mix only if ppms go down, if ppms rise i use plain water.
ppm still around 900 but its like 700ppm of PBP the rest is soft stuff

by the time flower starts i would like to be at 1200ppm, i also run PBP grow for the first 2 weeks of bloom, its no biggie you can go with the bloom nutes as the NPK numbers are very similar, at this point its still strain dependant and may need 10ml/gal if they are heavy feeds, this cal-mag will prevent early yellowing

so we are at late veg (i go 4 weeks)

to get our 1200ppm we need

20ml PBP grow
atleast 5ml cal-mag
and 5 sweet

this is all interchangable, during flower you can go 25ml bloom and 10 callmag or 30bloom 5 cal-mag..regardless for the whole bloom cycle i like to run atleast 10ml of sweet, sweet has magnesium in it is will help you lay off the cal-mag if you like, my whole point is you can run your mixes in 5ml increments of each of the 3 different bottles and not harm your plants
****please note : calcium is an immoble element, this means it takes a while for it to travel through the plant, so if you are running R/O water or tap water less than 100ppm add atleast 5ml/gal of cal-mag, its easier to add it than to correct the calcium deficiency you cheap bastard! calcium starts at the edges of the serrated tips of the leaf looking like small rust spots, then works its way between the viens of the leaf towards the center vien, leaves will not recover. from my own exp. i know magnesium is an easier fix and leaves may or may not recover.
i did not include any bloom boosters because i dont think you need it, i always used cha ching at the6th week till 8th week with 9th week being flush week, i just recently incorperated beastie bloomz into the mix but i havent noticed any difference, to me cha ching seriously increases resin production, like NOTICABLY . botanicare is making a heavy push with Hydroplex, this is a 0-10-6 late flower bloom booster with gaurenteed analysis of micro nutrients at around $70/gal, i prefer the FF powders cus at 1/4 tsp they are much more economical and jesus! did i tell you how much resin cha chings adds? game changer!


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## boxing119 (Feb 5, 2010)

thank you for all your help i disconnected my out take ducting so the freezing air is going through the cool tubes than out into the tent making it have a much lower temp and i can finally zip it up. i dont have to much more GH products so thats why im so interested in making the switch i dont really like how the plants are growing with the nutes


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

wait what did you do with your duct? let me see if i understand....cold air from window ----->fan----->cooltube--->into tent?

thats not what i first meant for you to try.

disconnected duct hangin/cold air supply ---->fan blows into cooltube---->from cooltube ducted out tent. that fan being strong and the size of your tent should almost make your ear drums pop, this pressure will suck fresh air from any hole, pin sized or that duct that you disconnected, the cold outside air will flow in from the duct, whirl around your tent and gets sucked into the fan, from the fan blows into the cooltube that is directly connected to a duct that goes straight outside. you originally started out with a "closed loop" system to cool the lights right>?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

the whole reason why i wanted you to suck the air out of the room is for humidty control aswell, if you have a carbon filter for smells all you need to do is hook it up to the fan that blows into the tube


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 5, 2010)

off topic, since theres many people old members and new ones who are literally coming from all angles with this system, who thinks this thread should be made a sticky? im sure many of us found this thread by accident and theres nothing else on RIU for CAP/multi-flow users


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## justsmoking (Feb 5, 2010)

Yes what I did was ran the system for a couple days then while it's flooding I dug out the hydroton till I saw water just over the clay then I placed the rockwool just on top of that then poured the rest hydroton around the top. I flood two times a day and it almost looks like the rockwool is too dry? But as soon as it floods again it soaks up and it's wet !! I'm seeing growth and there on day 8. So far it looks good . I did add some hygrozyme to the resivor . Will see what happns at next flood!!!


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## shnkrmn (Feb 6, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> off topic, since theres many people old members and new ones who are literally coming from all angles with this system, who thinks this thread should be made a sticky? im sure many of us found this thread by accident and theres nothing else on RIU for CAP/multi-flow users


The thread is perfectly named. 

Unfortunately, the thread starter seems to have abandoned interest. I just added some tags, you should do the same.

I found this thread by searching for it.

So let's make it more searchable.

Reading back, there IS really great information in here from lots of posters.


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## boxing119 (Feb 6, 2010)

so i have tried these two ways... i had it set so it went from the window with the frezzing air through the fan than both cool tubes than in to the tent, so basiclly i just disconnected the exhaust from it so the cool air would stay in my tent, this worked very well i could close the doors on the tent and it would stay around 78.... than i tried disconnecting the intake so it went fan cool tubes than exuasted the hot air into my house, but still that is too hold it went up to like 83 degrees with the doors closed and was gonna keep going up. im not sure if i did it right but it worked best when i was bringin cold air into the tent


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> You're sucking air from the window, warming it up by putting it through the hoods, then blowing that hot air into your house? Is that right? Where is your carbon filter?
> 
> I will assume that you have a carbon filter inside the top of the tent sucking out hot air? Put your hood in between the carbon filter and the exhaust fan. Then blow that air outside. Your intake fan doesn't need to be that big, but you can put a speed controller on it to adjust the amount of cold air your blowing into your house. Inside your tent should be about 5 degrees warmer than outside the tent if you set it up like that.
> 
> Here is a VERY good guide of various configurations that will work. Some good illustrations too. http://www.jasons-indoor-guide-to-organic-and-hydroponics-gardening.com/exhaust-fan-setup.html


I will say it again for you. "Put your hood in between the carbon filter and the exhaust fan. Then blow that air outside."


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## boxing119 (Feb 6, 2010)

i dont have a carbon filter yet, and i have two hoods. so now in my tent the top goes inline fan through one cool tube than the other the pushing the hot air out of my grow room? is that what you mean smoking ruber? i think its how your saying just with out the carbon filter


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

Suck the hot air out of the hoods and blow it outside. It will fuggn stink pretty bad, pretty soon. If smell is going to be an issue, get a good carbon filter and duct it to the other end of the hoods.

You have an oversized fan already, so get one of these. I saw one for $109 on ebay. http://www.grozonecontrol.com/TV2_en.html That will speed up the fan when it gets too hot, automatically cooling your tent.

I use one for my 2000w tent.


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## boxing119 (Feb 6, 2010)

by sucking all the air out it still would not keep my tent cool enough, my tent looked completley sunk in... but in a good way but i still couldnt get the temp below 82


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## boxing119 (Feb 6, 2010)

Smoking rubber, was it hard to install your water filter? im till running tap water but wanting to switch to RO just not sure what ill need and how hard it is?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

The RO was pretty easy to install. At least it looked easy when my friend the plumber did it  I didn't need a plumber, but when your friend IS one ... well he would have been offended if I hadnt asked.

Your are exhausting to OUTSIDE the house, right? That's crucial.


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## boxing119 (Feb 6, 2010)

i could... does it just hook up to a normal garden hose? and how long does it take to fill the rez?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> i could... does it just hook up to a normal garden hose? and how long does it take to fill the rez?


Yes, mine came with an attachment to hook up to the garden hose. Mine takes approx 5 hours to fill 40 gallons. I wait till after the last feeding of the night, disconnect everything and clean it out back in the dark. Then I hook it all back up, turn the water on and go to bed. The float valve shuts the water off, and the barrel is ready for nutes when I wake up.


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## xceptional (Feb 7, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Nice video xceptional, +rep.
> 
> Couple questions:
> 1. How long did you veg? Seed or Clone?
> ...



1. from clone, veg to 22-24"
2. i followed GreenThumbSuckers nutes he used in his journal here so Lucas with Flora and H202 along with some Magical that came with the system
3. NL#5
4. all natural plants.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 7, 2010)

i/m still confused about this air flow temp issue, if you can take that outside air, blow it into your hoods then blow all that back into the tent , then there should be even better results if you left the fan sucking out the hot air , may i ask if you have the fan sucking out the air, what is happening to the fresh air thats coming in? are you blocking it off?


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## xceptional (Feb 7, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> no i have my duct work going from the open window through my inline fan through both cool tube than into an empty closet... the air being sucked through is really cold i think 2 x 1000 watt lights may just be too much for my 4x8 tent?
> its not a duct booster fan i know what your talking about, i have an inline fan and it seems to work very well....


Maybe a HYDROGEN SUN SHIELD may help? i don't know how effective these things are but maybe they could help. also what about a portable ac to bring clean cold air in the room that isn't full of humidity like the outside air. 

how warm is it by hand 6" under your lights? 
do you have any venting for your tent?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 7, 2010)

xceptional said:


> here is a somewhat recent vid of my setup..
> [youtube][movie]
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/p6BiPGz-b-M&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/p6BiPGz-b-M&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/movie][/youtube]


I just had to dig that out and show everyone these girls one more time.  How they lookn now?


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## boxing119 (Feb 7, 2010)

when i was sucking the air out of the tent it went fan-cooltube-cool tube than out of the tent, it really sucked a ton out and the air was hot but it just couldnt keep it cool enough? what do you mean what is happing to the fresh air? i had to dis connect the outside air because i couldnt suck it through anymore and have it still sucking.


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## burlegrass (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi - Thanks for all great info in this thread. Made setup a breeze, besides getting the tubing over the pump outlet. The only suggestion I have that might help others with that is to use very small needle-nose pliers to grip the wall of the tubing to help pull it on.

Testing the system now and have a problem I was hoping y'all could help me fix it. Fill cycle works perfectly. Timer trips over to drain cycle - the light on the controller switches over to drain cycle. However, pump fails to start. All float switches are unobstructed, no kinks in tubing, the pump works.

Some troubleshooting revealed that if I plug the pump directly into a wall-socket and let it run for a minute, then unplug it from the wall and plug it into the "drain pump" socket on the controller unit, the pump then runs fine. The water level in the controller unit drops below the lowest float switch and the pump turns off. However, as the buckets continue drain into the controller and the two lowest switches are again floating, the drain pump does not turn back on to finish draining the system (I'm assuming this is how the drain cycle is supposed work).

Any ideas? My 1st thought is that the controller unit just isn't putting out enough juice to start the pump cold, but once the pump is warmed up a bit, it is enough juice. Next troubleshoot attempt will be to buy another pump of similar size (I would switch out with the pump in the reservoir, but I really don't want to have to go through the tube/pump fitting thing again).

Worst part is that early into this problem I removed the cover on the timer unit to see if there was some obvious wiring issue (there wasn't) and didn't notice the word "VOID" on the tape I peeled back to get in there until I was putting it back together. DOH!

I'm all ears people - thanks for any ideas you might have.


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## mrduke (Feb 7, 2010)

you may have to slightly lift the front of the controller bucket, I have 1/2" shims under the front edge of mine. WHY??? it allows the pump (which should be against the back wall of bucket ) to not run dry, some times the pump will run until there is no water left to pump causing an air bubble. I believe they call it vacume or suction lock. lifting the front allows more water where the pump is as well as shotting off the pump sooner.


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## patlpp (Feb 7, 2010)

burlegrass said:


> However, as the buckets continue drain into the controller and the two lowest switches are again floating, the drain pump does not turn back on to finish draining the system (I'm assuming this is how the drain cycle is supposed work).


Do the same test except on the drain ACoutlet, hook up an ac strip and plug in the pump AND a fan. When the 2 floats are floating and the pump doesn't come on but the fan does, than it is confirmed the pump is the issue, not the controller. If the fan does not, the controller is at fault. 
I have found the pump works better when laying on its side...prevents air from entering the pump.


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## burlegrass (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks for the ideas - shimmed to tip as suggested. Did the test w/ fan and both fan and pump failed to turn on....so faulty controller then?


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## patlpp (Feb 7, 2010)

burlegrass said:


> Thanks for the ideas - shimmed to tip as suggested. Did the test w/ fan and both fan and pump failed to turn on....so faulty controller then?


It does seem to be....
Wiggle the connections to the float switches when the floats are up and if it comes on , even just for a moment, it's a connection issue. You know, dick with the connections to narrow it down.


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## Sinclue (Feb 7, 2010)

mrduke said:


> you may have to slightly lift the front of the controller bucket, I have 1/2" shims under the front edge of mine. WHY??? it allows the pump (which should be against the back wall of bucket )
> 
> Where do people have thier drain pumps? The instructions clearly show placement in the front (timer/floats end). Having just installed my replacement controller the directions are pretty fresh.
> I had issues with the fill float valve. They replaced the controller with a new unit that also included two new pumps and the bag with instructions and more connector pieces. It was about a two week turnaroun (and I am here in California where they are). I had to prompt them after they had my unit for six days and I hadn't heard from them. They then sent out the new unit.
> ...


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## burlegrass (Feb 7, 2010)

When I had the timer box open I didn't see a unique ID but it was marked with initials and month it was made: 12/09. I sent tech an email - will update when I get it figured out.

I initially had the drain pump on the front per the directions, but switched per mrduke's rec.

Now that I've already opened the timer box, I could try to post some photo's if anyone's interested in the innards.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 7, 2010)

can you put the unit back together without them noticing? its most likely a float valve but that thing is hard wired to the timer box. also did you try to suck fluid from the hose in the res? try to syphon water back to the res when the drain cycle pump comes on. trust me you gotta try this first i have 3 of these units and they all got air pocket and these air pockets make the unit seem like its not working


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## shnkrmn (Feb 7, 2010)

burlegrass said:


> Now that I've already opened the timer box, I could try to post some photo's if anyone's interested in the innards.



Yes, please!


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## xceptional (Feb 7, 2010)

yeah pics would be sick! i'm sure the DIY community will love you for it as well.


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## mrduke (Feb 7, 2010)

I dont know what you guys think but the pumps that come with this kit are crap.I replaced both mine with hydrofarm 150GPH there a bit bigger butare a mag drive and have a pre-filter. Best of all i trust them


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## Sinclue (Feb 7, 2010)

burlegrass said:


> I sent tech an email - will update when I get it figured out.
> 
> 
> I'd still recommend you call them. I sent Tech an email on Sunday, didn't get a reply until Wed. The reply was: Call Tech Support!
> ...


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## burlegrass (Feb 7, 2010)

OK - phone it is. Thanks for the heads up.

They will know the timer box has been opened. I peeled back the void tape rather than cutting it, but it's designed to leave behind some shiny tell-tale signs that it has been un-stuck.

I had to prime the pump the first time i turned it on via suck method, but since then it has held its prime. I tried it again for greenberg, 5 seconds after as the cycle switched over to drain, and was able to draw the water up to the rez but still nothing from the pump. Maybe I haven't been clear about this - there is no power going to the pump. I'm imagining in an air lock situation that I would hear/feel the pump running, just not seeing it move any water. This pump is just silent. 

Happy Superbowl everbody!


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 7, 2010)

just trying to help you avoid having to send back the unit, that means 2 weeks down time i assume, even if its the timer or float valves its gotta go


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## smokingrubber (Feb 7, 2010)

burlegrass said:


> They will know the timer box has been opened. I peeled back the void tape rather than cutting it, but it's designed to leave behind some shiny tell-tale signs that it has been un-stuck.


Why did you do that? Doh!


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## patlpp (Feb 7, 2010)

Does anyone use an airstone in the res? The hydro store I go to has one massive 70psi on continuously. The man swears by it, that growth is improved. I thought the ebb/flow action , the draining in the res along with the hydroton is good enough. I have 1 girl who is droopy so I dug down and the roots look light brown, not serious rot but may be on its way. She is the only one left in this grow. My 2 others were male. The males roots were fine. (they are of course history) 

Should I go for the stone/air or would h202 be good enough? Any quick root repair method up your sleeves? Thanks


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## xceptional (Feb 7, 2010)

patlpp said:


> Does anyone use an airstone in the res? The hydro store I go to has one massive 70psi on continuously. The man swears by it, that growth is improved. I thought the ebb/flow action , the draining in the res along with the hydroton is good enough. I have 1 girl who is droopy so I dug down and the roots look light brown, not serious rot but may be on its way. She is the only one left in this grow. My 2 others were male. The males roots were fine. (they are of course history)
> 
> Should I go for the stone/air or would h202 be good enough? Any quick root repair method up your sleeves? Thanks



from my understanding h2o2 does NOT provide oxygen to the root zone it is not in a form they can uptake like oxygen provided by adding a airstone. airstones are cheap so i added one even though i swore against it. 

my reason for not wanting to add was was my future intention of running the House Garden line of nutes and they say to not airaite your res with their nutes. went to walmart and picked up a pump and stone for under $30 and it's designed for a 30-60 gal res. works fine and i cant say i noticed any difference.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 7, 2010)

for the sake of keeping the water stirred up put one in, in my view, the more O2 in the water the better, roots explode from extra oxy


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## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 8, 2010)

xceptional said:


> from my understanding h2o2 does NOT provide oxygen to the root zone it is not in a form they can uptake like oxygen provided by adding a airstone. airstones are cheap so i added one even though i swore against it.
> 
> my reason for not wanting to add was was my future intention of running the House Garden line of nutes and they say to not airaite your res with their nutes. went to walmart and picked up a pump and stone for under $30 and it's designed for a 30-60 gal res. works fine and i cant say i noticed any difference.


H2O2 is awesome stuff for aeration. Just have to use it sparingly. I did an experiment with it years ago that proved to me that it is used by the roots. I had some plants growing in pisspoor draining potting soil that were taking 5 or 6 days to dry out between waterings. I started adding a teaspoon per gallon of H2O2 to my fertilizer water and they went from using it over 5 days to drying out every 24 hours. I had to water them daily when I added the H2O2.

H2O2 provides oxygen, period. O2 is O2. Hydrogen is merely water with an extra oxygen molecule. The oxygen is unstable in the H2O2 form so it rapidly lets go of the extra oxygen molecule, thus oxygenating your solution.

Look at the Ebb and Grow journal in my tagline to see how I use it. I add one tablespoon to my reservoir every day or two. Keeps it sterile and saturated with oxygen. Oxygen to the roots is what makes hydroponics work better than dirt.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

you know what i used to do when i had potted plants in dirt that were over watered? added 35% peroxide to water and fed, this was the only way to get o2 into the rootzone without having to wait a few days


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## patlpp (Feb 8, 2010)

Thanks guys for all the help. I looked into H2O2 in my area and 35% grade is running $25 1/2 liter. The airstone/pump is too expensive at this time. I am running at extreme small scale at the moment. If I was to get the air pump/stone, I would want it to handle 40 gallons + for future grows. 

For the time being, what do you think of me using Dutch Master Zone. It's 25$ for a full liter and it has instructions to repair immediate damage. It's ongoing maintenance doses are 2ml/gal. Like I say, I'm not at the extreme rot point, just mild. Sounds economical if it works.

Additionally, does anyone know the half-life of h2o2 in a reservoir? Would it not dissipate quickly so you would have to dose just before feeding?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

peroxide in water will go 3-4 days before that extra oxygen molecule dissipates, if you got shit going on with your roots bro do not fuck around, go get the hygrozyme, forget everything else, its $45 a qt but worth its weight in gold, your roots may be suffering because you dont have an airstone in there, you can pick up a pump and stone at walmart, hydrostores carry the littles for 11bucks and 6 for the stone. from a gentleman on another thread talking about hygrozyme he said and he is correct that water that is not aerated will allow anerobic bacteria to flourish(this is pythium, brown root rot) good bacterias flourish in highly oxygenated environments like myccorhizae(aerobic)...dude get the pump and hygrozyme, forget peroxide that shit kills any microbes in your nutrients if you use organic or semi organic products. use peroxide for cleaning your system between runs


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## boxing119 (Feb 8, 2010)

i put pics up of my lighting and exhaust and what's going on. i'm pretty sure im doing it all okay, i just may need to add a portable a/c for the extra degrees that it wont drop, the tent temp stays around 82,83 with the house being at a cool 60 degrees, if you notice anything that might help please let me know...


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

ok boxing, i saw the pix, i see you have a fan on the end of the lights and they have the open end, what i dont see is where is your fresh air coming in from? you need to have intake air come in at the bottom of the room on one end, the other end at the top should have the extraction. is that fan sucking hot air out from the lights? i know you have a nice tent i know that shit has ports at the bottoms on both sides to let in fresh air just unzip one or 2 till the negative pressure dissipates, you always want just a touch of pressure but not somuch where the tents is gonna suck itself in. when you are ready the way you are stup now all you have to do is attatch a carbon filter on the open end of lights and all hot stinky humid air is evacuated, i prefer to turn it around with fan taking room air out thru the filter and then push that air thru the lights and out the room, not as efficient but i dont like mechanical things getting hot like that


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## smokingrubber (Feb 8, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> i prefer to turn it around with fan taking room air out thru the filter and then push that air thru the lights and out the room, not as efficient but i dont like mechanical things getting hot like that


I can understand the fear of getting things hot, but even if the air were 100 degrees, the fan is all metal. In actuallity the air isn't 100 degrees and the fan never gets very warm at all. Unless you need to cool a dozen lights, a good metal inline fan will handle the job either way you install it.

Personally, I like to suck air through the hoods. This way any pin-hole or crack in the hood's seal will only suck in air. Installed the other way, it would be pushing hot air into the tent.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

no no i meant it the other way about pushing air, i run sealed lights i just recently turned them around to suck hot air out rather than push fresh cool air in, i have a closed loop 3x600 per 424fan and it does the job just right in the winter, summer i seal the whole room up no intake fresh air, just c02 and i disconnect the fan/filter from exauhsting and set it to "scrub air". as i have it now i have seperate fans for air cooled hoods and a single 424/filter for sucking out heat/humidty, i have a closed off window with 2 lengths of 6inch ducting taped to the wall so the negative pressure from the fan/filter makes cold winter air come rushing in from those window/ducts, its so strong it feels like theres a fan in those duct. this is what i was trying to explain to boxing, i believe with his setup he can control temps/humidty with one fan just aslong as he has a fresh air port(preferably that 35F air that was originally used to cool the hoods)


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## boxing119 (Feb 8, 2010)

so basically just leave a few of the little vent flaps open so it gets the fresh air? and is it awful or detrimental to the plants at all if the temp is 82 in there it feels cool with both fans going?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

82 is fine, over 85 could be an issue, especially when you have water at the bottoms of the pots . at higher temps you may need to make sure water is more available, how often do you flood? the average user goes every 3-4hours. yes open some flaps, if you have air going out you need air going in, also earlier you told me you had air from outside from a window to cool the hoods, you can connect the air from outside via ducting to your flaps and this will probably bring you to the low 70's, regardless of where air flow comes from you need to be able to exchange every drop of air in that room because of poor circulations and stale air will allow mold to thrive, as you r plants get larger it will get more and more humid in there, especially at night during flowering


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## boxing119 (Feb 8, 2010)

yeah i noticed that the humidity was almost up to 70 during the dark stage of flowering the first night,i dont have an extra inline fan to bring air in from the window i could run a piece of duct out the tent and set it by the window and maybe the suction is hard enough to bring in fresh air? is that humidity level to high for the dark period?


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## boxing119 (Feb 8, 2010)

i'm flooding 4 times a day, i just flipped to flower and im doing from 6-pm to 6-am on and than 6am -6pm off. because it is cooler at night. i ran a peice of duct from the bottom of the tent and set it up against the screen so hopefully it will suck all the air from the window, giving fresh air and cooler temps hopefully


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## xceptional (Feb 8, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> i'm flooding 4 times a day, i just flipped to flower and im doing from 6-pm to 6-am on and than 6am -6pm off. because it is cooler at night. i ran a peice of duct from the bottom of the tent and set it up against the screen so hopefully it will suck all the air from the window, giving fresh air and cooler temps hopefully


if the cooler air you are talking about is in a area of the country with snow i believe that air will add tons of humidity to your room. i may be wrong but you should keep an eye on it.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

you have a timer for your fan i assume, if so just set it to run for 15 minutes every 1.5-2hours, leave are smaller room fans on, 70% is too high especially since theres no bud yet. now since you need to operate the same fan that controls your temps to control humidity, it may bring temps too low during lights off, nothing lower than the mid 50's at worst case scenario you can pick up a room heat for $50 at lowes or HD


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## Quemado (Feb 8, 2010)

I just started my grow on thursday. Put in some fresh Grand Daddy Purple clones The past couple of days I've had to move the plants deep down the pot they were looking weak and soft. The ones that were looking really bad yesterday that I put down lower into the pot are looking much better. I had to help a few more today hopefully everything works out. I'm flooding like 4 times a day they were looking thirsty. I also started with half strength nutes and bumped up to full strength today. There was some descent root growth but I dont think they were getting any water. Just figuring out this system.


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## boxing119 (Feb 8, 2010)

what should be my highest precent humidity be? with lights off it tends to stay around 64 or so in the tent which should be good right?


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## doogleef (Feb 8, 2010)

You are in Boulder, right?. RH is not a big concern for us here in Colorado. It's a bit high right now because of the storm coming through but normally it will be about 40. I don't even check it anymore. The low RH around here is a godsend in bloom. Lots of frost. 

I recommend H2O2 35% for any root issues. 1-2ml/l of H2O2 about a tsp per gallon of rez every 3-4 days does a beautiful job. You can get h202 in the correct concentrations from chem supply stores if you want to avoid paying dro store prices. IT breaks down to water and oxy in a matter of minutes, not days. You re-apply every few days just to keep the levels up.


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## boxing119 (Feb 8, 2010)

whats the coolest i should let my rez temp get its usually right at 67 but it seems to of dropped to about 63 degs is this okay?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

Quemado said:


> I just started my grow on thursday. Put in some fresh Grand Daddy Purple clones The past couple of days I've had to move the plants deep down the pot they were looking weak and soft. The ones that were looking really bad yesterday that I put down lower into the pot are looking much better. I had to help a few more today hopefully everything works out. I'm flooding like 4 times a day they were looking thirsty. I also started with half strength nutes and bumped up to full strength today. There was some descent root growth but I dont think they were getting any water. Just figuring out this system.


 
slow your roll with the nutrients dood, try 1/4 strength or 400ppm for clones and plants less than 8inches MAX 400ppm


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

low humidty is fine over 70% is dangerzone, water should be ideally 65-68f for it to hold the maximum amount of dissolved oxygen, stay safe at max 72F, 75F and up is almost certain for root rot


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## GreenThumbSucker (Feb 9, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> whats the coolest i should let my rez temp get its usually right at 67 but it seems to of dropped to about 63 degs is this okay?


I run my reservoir in the mid 50s in winter with stunning results. Looked at the temp last night and it was 56 degrees. Advanced Hydroponics (urbangrower.com) say the ideal reservoir temp is 57 degrees. I consistently have larger crops in the winter (growing in a cold basement). The colder the water, the more oxygen it can hold. If I were in a situation where I was stuck using warm (75+ degree) reservoir temps, I would add 35% hydrogen peroxide daily at 1 tbsp per day which would raise DO and kill pathogens.

The easiest way to cool off the reservoir is to keep it in a separate area outside the grow room, away from the heat of the lamps which is pretty easy to do with a little extra hose.


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## boxing119 (Feb 9, 2010)

sounds good i have my fan turning on every two hours for about 20 mins, keeps the humidity around 30% and last night the temp in the tent never got above 77 degrees, thanks guys for all the help everything is looking good. and i got some of that hyogrozyme because when i went to the hydro store they didnt have any h2o2 but i was wondering is this stuff safe to use whenever? like can i just add it to the rez along with the nutes? every time i change the rez


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 9, 2010)

air stone and water temps in the 60's will provide you with strong healthy roots, hygrozyme is protection against bad bacteria, also repairs damaged roots fast, the benefits of this stuff is endless, and you CAN wash your kitchen countertop and all your cutlery with it. theres very few products that i trust from this slimey hydro industry and Hzyme is one of them


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 9, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/299748-hygrozyme-who-uses.html


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## shnkrmn (Feb 9, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/299748-hygrozyme-who-uses.html


The first time I tried hydro (dwc) I got root rot pretty much right away, since I tried to transplant weak soil plants into it (c'mon, we've all done stupid stuff). Of course, I was trying to control pH with kitchen stuff.

I eventually got some Hygrozyme but way too late to do anything. I needed body bags by then.

Then I went to hempy buckets and used hygrozyme in them for several grows. I eventually ran out and haven't used it since; it seemed expensive and hadn't done what I bought it for; bring my DWC dead back to life lol

I admit, my root balls aren't as white as they used to be, but I haven't had any catastrophes either (well, what's finishing up now is a semi-disaster).

Anyway, I don't know what to think about hzyme. It smells like slightly hard apple cider; I'm guessing it's a fermented product. They aren't saying

I'm going H202 this grow. I haven't added any yet, but I have a res change coming up. I have to go pick some up along with another jug of cal-mag.


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## Quemado (Feb 9, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> slow your roll with the nutrients dood, try 1/4 strength or 400ppm for clones and plants less than 8inches MAX 400ppm


Yo man thanks. Rookie ass move....


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## boxing119 (Feb 9, 2010)

i picked up some koolbloom today along with the hygrozyme also i got some 30% h202 because i dont have an airstone in my rez, is it okay to use the hygrozyme with h202 its says on the hygrozyme bottle that it is compatible at lo ppm's but wasnt too sure what they ment by that, i decided to finish this grow up with the GH line... still using the lucas formula with just the micro and bloom, i added the koolbloom and hygrozyme today, hopefully all goes well


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 9, 2010)

go very easy with the kool bloom at first, as for h202 and hygrozyme its a no go, they counteract eachother, actually peroxide kills everything that is organic, hygro=110% organic, i know they say its compatible in low ppm but i have not found one article saying how much is enough, too much will eradicate your hygrozyme


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## boxing119 (Feb 9, 2010)

okay well, i used about 250 ml of the cool bloom for 40 gallons im pretty sure thats still on the lite side... i did add a full regemin of the hygrozyme and 30 ml of 30% h202 do u think that little amount of h202 will mess with the hygrozyme? i hope not because i looked at the roots today and they arent as white as they used to be.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 9, 2010)

a normal rate for 30% peroxide is 1-3ML/gal, i still think u shouldnt use it together, i would use it for cleaning the room and equipment, but thats just me


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## boxing119 (Feb 9, 2010)

okay well i wont use them together again, but i dont really fill like emptying the whole rez just for that, do you think it should be okay?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 10, 2010)

should be ok, you really dont have anthing to worry about since water temps are fine, and you have an air pump right?


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## doogleef (Feb 10, 2010)

Be very careful adding Koolbloom to the Lucas blend. Lucas formula is low N high P anyway so if you push too much koolbloom you will go overboard on P and antagonize uptake of nitrogen and mag. This causes deff and adding more N/Mg once this has begun wont help. Gotta dump and start over. Here is a great link on basic nutrition and antagonistic properties between base elements. :http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Dont add any more than the 250ml you used this time. 

A better choice for a bloom booster with lucas would be something like a 0-2-4 (bigbud or a knockoff) rather than the 0-10-10


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## smokingrubber (Feb 10, 2010)

EXPERIENCED GROWERS:

Are there any Do's & Don't you can share about mixing a reservoir? Specifically, the 55 gal barrel most of us use.

I ask because I mixed mine this morning, and I wonder how others do it. I'm using GH 3-part. Really it's 6-parts, plus I add 3 extra things so there are 9 ingredients to my recipe. I add the Micro first, then reach in there with a mixer thing and swirl it around 5 or 6 times. There are wires and shit in there so it's a bitch. I can't mix it well at all. I also have the air-stones running in there so that helps to mix a little. ...so after the micro is mixed a little I just start adding all of the ingredients one after the other. I wait a beat in between, but for the most part I just add everything else and rinse the glass measuring cup in the reservoir every time between bottles. This is all done approx 3 hours before the first feeding. Plenty of time to naturally blend?

Should I have a second pump running in there to constantly mix the nutrients? How crucial is it that I don't mix the res well between parts?

When I look in the tent, it doesn't look like I'm doing too much wrong. They're all very happy and healthy. A couple got a little close to the sun and got bent down. Other than that, doing GOOD considering I'm feeding 5 different strains.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 10, 2010)

I run a pump constantly in the res. It distributes nutes (and pH adjusters) very quickly. You could just pop one in there when you are making soup, but I figure the constant circulation only increases DO on top of the two airstones I have running. Since my res is constantly about 60 degrees I don't have to worry about the pump raising the temperature (I don't think it could have much impact in that large a res. But I have only two ingredients in my soup: Foliage pro and Cal-mag+, so I don't really worry about causing my solution to precipitate, which is I guess what's on your mind.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 10, 2010)

micro first fo sho, but when mixing a fresh res i like to run the water and add my soup mix as it fills. for this system if you have an extra water pump laying around is great, just connect to a little hose and give it a waterfall effect so nothing rests at the bottom, with GH nutes you dont have to worry about this, thick stuff is when its preffered


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## Quemado (Feb 10, 2010)

What are the signs of over watering and under watering? I've had some clones put in my set up and have been water 4-5 times a day when lights are on 18 hrs. No feeding while the lights are off for 6.


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## boxing119 (Feb 10, 2010)

what size air pump and what size airstone do you guys run in your rez? im going to go get one today just want to make sure i get the right stuff this time


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## smokingrubber (Feb 10, 2010)

Get 2 of these: http://www.hydroponics.net/i/131648 Micro pore air stone will help airate and circulate the water

Get 1 of these: http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/eco-air-6w-2outlet-variable-control-air-pump-p-1516.html Simple 2 outlet air pump


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## boxing119 (Feb 10, 2010)

how do you make it so your profile pic shows, lol, not that it really matters i was just unsure


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## smokingrubber (Feb 10, 2010)

Your profile pic doesn't show, your avatar does. Goto MyRollitup and it's about half way down on the left menu


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## mrduke (Feb 10, 2010)

when i fill mine i dump 5 gal buckets of water in, in between every two differnt nutes. which used to be easy when i had to go to the store for RO water now i got RO in house sooo well have to add apump to stir it up


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 10, 2010)

Quemado said:


> What are the signs of over watering and under watering? I've had some clones put in my set up and have been water 4-5 times a day when lights are on 18 hrs. No feeding while the lights are off for 6.


'
over/under watering are similar, i am sure you know what a thirsty plant looks like, but an over watered plant gets droopy and starts to yellow a bit due to lack of oxygen, i think you should try the back off on the waterings. perhaps 2x a day


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## xceptional (Feb 10, 2010)

i thought all my fellow E&G growers would like this bit of info.

http://www.greners.com/hydroponics/systems/ebb-flow.html

they sell separate inner and outer buckets. this is nice because I'm going to pick up a few extra outer buckets for two reasons.
#1 ever tried to take a plant out of your room or move it away from the rest to inspect it? there issue is you cant sit it down! now with a extra outer bucket i can set it anywhere. 
#2 far fetch but I've heard of people ripping the outer bucket when putting the hose on. i obviously didn't do this but if i ever have to replace a bucket and do rip it I'll have a replacement. 

at $4 ea it's worth it to pick up 2 just to have IMO.


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## xceptional (Feb 11, 2010)

thought you guys may find this interesting as well. 

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/grd/1561978182.html

i live on the opposite end of the US but i found that link when searching for 'ebb and grow' on craigslist using craiglook.com


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## patlpp (Feb 11, 2010)

It's like tupperware!!


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 11, 2010)

damn those r good buckets, that crack at the hole is a bitch


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## mrduke (Feb 11, 2010)

shit wish i knew about those befor i spent 70 buck for a expension kit


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 12, 2010)

anyone here ever try Azatrol in the res?


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## Quemado (Feb 12, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> '
> over/under watering are similar, i am sure you know what a thirsty plant looks like, but an over watered plant gets droopy and starts to yellow a bit due to lack of oxygen, i think you should try the back off on the waterings. perhaps 2x a day


Hey just gotta thank you for the advice. I went to plain ph'ed water and kept less than a quarter of the full nute water in my res. I also added root excelarator . They recovered nicely in just a few days. I had to slow my roll i was way too ancious to juice em up.


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## boxing119 (Feb 13, 2010)

what would you guys reccomend for a ph/ppm meter i just broke my ph meter last night and looking to get a new one


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 13, 2010)

hit up ebay e*seasongear or eseasonsgear.com . get yourself the PH drops as a back up, i always used milwaukee but everyone is different


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## boxing119 (Feb 15, 2010)

is 950 ppm too low for flower stage? i just mixed my batch of the lucas formula and thats what it came to.. what other nutes would people recommend to complement the lucas formula in flower?


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## doogleef (Feb 16, 2010)

950PPM is about right. Watch for N deff and supplement more micro (5-0-1) if needed. No other additives needed or recommended. You using an airstone or H2O2?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 16, 2010)

I keep my ppm 1400 - 1500 during flower (.7 meter). I dump and clean every 2 weeks, then I mix a fresh batch of GH cool-aid ... but I use the Lucas strickly for add-backs between dumps.


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## boxing119 (Feb 16, 2010)

i was going to use h202 but i started using that hygrozyme for my roots, and h202 contradicts that because hygrozyme is organic, so at the time i am not using either, is that problematic? i was gonna order an airstone but just didn't wanna spend the money if it was not needed


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## boxing119 (Feb 16, 2010)

smokingrubber, what do you mean when you said a .7 meter?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 16, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> smokingrubber, what do you mean when you said a .7 meter?


Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in this field.

TDS meters don't ACTUALLY measure tds. They measure the EC (electric something) then convert it to a Total Dissolved Solid measurement. Some meters figure it using a .7 conversion and some use .5. The .5 is more common in Europe (I think), and the .7 is found in the US (I think). I have no idea why they would not just stick with one freakin way of doing it ... but that's what I do know.


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## COgrow (Feb 16, 2010)

love this thread and just wanted to say hi. Please check out my journal and share ideas. Just started a new 12 pot grow.


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## patlpp (Feb 16, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in this field.
> 
> TDS meters don't ACTUALLY measure tds. They measure the EC (electric something) then convert it to a Total Dissolved Solid measurement. Some meters figure it using a .7 conversion and some use .5. The .5 is more common in Europe (I think), and the .7 is found in the US (I think). I have no idea why they would not just stick with one freakin way of doing it ... but that's what I do know.


Smokingrubber: Recall you answered my pm about this meter and I researched it (along with others) Correct me if I'm wrong but I understand your meter to have a .5 conversion factor. Here is the link: http://www.cwpmeters.com/combometers.php

Note the specs call for a 1382 PPM/2.76 EC for calibration? 1382/.5 =2764. Also you will see that the cal procedures will state 500ppm = 1 EC. I attached some snapshots of the documentation.

If you were feeding your gals with 1400 @ .5 that would be an EC of 2.8 to 3. Fairly hot but not uncommon. Many feeding charts such as Dutch Masters call for an EC of 3 with 3/4 strengh! http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/nutrient_calculator.php?language=english

A good way to find out for sure is to get a gallon of RO and mix 1 mic and 2 bloom (8ml/16ml) GH Lucas base. See what the reading is. If its 950 or so you have a .5 , if its 1300 or so you have a .7

I am running 1200 @ .5 (Hanna cheap ass Primo meter) or EC 2.4 no problem. Couldn't afford to get your Mercedes meter !!


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## Sinclue (Feb 16, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in this field.
> 
> TDS meters don't ACTUALLY measure tds. They measure the EC (electric something) then convert it to a Total Dissolved Solid measurement. Some meters figure it using a .7 conversion and some use .5. The .5 is more common in Europe (I think), and the .7 is found in the US (I think). I have no idea why they would not just stick with one freakin way of doing it ... but that's what I do know.


Here is a very complete explanation of the whole TDS/PPM/EC business:
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/14207-ec-tds-ppm-what-differences.html

In it he says this about conversion factors:
There are three conversion factors which various manufacturers use for displaying ppm's...
USA 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 500 ppm
European 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 640 ppm
Australian 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 700 ppm

Seems as if we all used the EC value (if you can)then there would be some measure of consistency for comparison. That said, I got a Truncheon so that I'd have access to all the readings.


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## boxing119 (Feb 16, 2010)

i was wondering if anyone ran c02 with their system, i was told it can do great things, does any one know how you could rig the ebb & gro up for some c02?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 17, 2010)

boxing, get yourself an airstone, theres no such thing as wasted money on an airpump/stone. walmart i hear has decent pumps for dirt cheap, like $12. if you have a hydro shop nearby pick up the el;ite 801, thats $12 with a stone $4. we can agree that healthy roots produce healthy plants yes? its all intergrated, water, nutrients, temps, and oxygen are critical. adding co2 can be productive or can be a serious waste of money. like if your primary means of cooling is thru ventilation/exhaust then it would get sucked out of the room, but what if summer comes around and your a/c isnt cutting it, room temps are 85-95F and plants are suffering big time? add co2. especially since your using an a/c you dont want that cool air getting sucked out, this would be the ideal time to use co2, plus higher levels of co2 in your room will allow the plant to not only survive the heat, but thrive in it. at higher temps is when co2 should only be used, since at normal temps 72-78F the co2 is useless, you will not notice any faster growth


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## boxing119 (Feb 17, 2010)

thanks for all your help in explaining that to me, i did pick up an airpump/airstone for the rez it was under 20 bucks so no big deal, i was just reading the grow bible and they were saying how amazing c02 can be for plants so i thought id ask


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## NVMYTREES (Feb 18, 2010)

*Hey ... just finished reading up on this thread. I purchased the Ebb & Grow system last week and am trying to do as much research as possible before I make an attempt. This will be my first time... Hopefully I didnt get myself in over my head. I was wondering about nutrients. The kit comes with the technaflora BC nut. It doesn't sound like many people are using them. Is there another brand of nutrient I should use or will the BC nuts do ok for me? I want to thank everybody ahead of time for any help as I am sure I will have alot of questions. *


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## TheOth3r0ne (Feb 18, 2010)

i have a question im planing on getting a ebb and grow system 48 site for my room right now i have a aero flo 36 site and i have 3 2x4 tables a 4x4 table and a 4x8 table im getting sick of the tables because of all the res changes i have to do i have to change my 4x4 once a week and i use ro water even tho i have to ro's one is 100gpd and the other is 200 gpd it still takes forever the question i have is if your using a 48 site ebb and grow with the one 55 gallon drum res how often do i have to change that res that is alot of plants for just 55 gallons like i said i use a 40 gallon on my 4x4 and it seems like after 1 week my pump is already sucking air before it gets to the drain connection i see this being a big problem when it comes to the ebb and grow i just dont see 48 full sized plants in flower with only a 55 gallon res if anyone has some insite on this please let me know should i go with 2 24 site ebb and grows with 2 55 gallon res


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## shnkrmn (Feb 18, 2010)

NVMYTREES said:


> *Hey ... just finished reading up on this thread. I purchased the Ebb & Grow system last week and am trying to do as much research as possible before I make an attempt. This will be my first time... Hopefully I didnt get myself in over my head. I was wondering about nutrients. The kit comes with the technaflora BC nut. It doesn't sound like many people are using them. Is there another brand of nutrient I should use or will the BC nuts do ok for me? I want to thank everybody ahead of time for any help as I am sure I will have alot of questions. *


Some folks have had great results with the technaflora recipe for success. Just follow the directions. It's too many products for a dumbass like me, though!


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## smokingrubber (Feb 18, 2010)

NVMYTREES said:


> *Hey ... just finished reading up on this thread. I purchased the Ebb & Grow system last week and am trying to do as much research as possible before I make an attempt. This will be my first time... Hopefully I didnt get myself in over my head. I was wondering about nutrients. The kit comes with the technaflora BC nut. It doesn't sound like many people are using them. Is there another brand of nutrient I should use or will the BC nuts do ok for me? I want to thank everybody ahead of time for any help as I am sure I will have alot of questions. *


I used the Technaflora that the system came with, but half the bottles were empty after the first fill-up. I wanted simple and effective, so I am using General Hydroponics recipe here: http://www.generalhydroponics.com/calculator/index.html
Plus Pro-Silicate, SM-90, & H2o2. viola!
(I said simple and effective, not cheap)




TheOth3r0ne said:


> i have a question im planing on getting a ebb and grow system 48 site for my room right now i have a aero flo 36 site and i have 3 2x4 tables a 4x4 table and a 4x8 table im getting sick of the tables because of all the res changes i have to do i have to change my 4x4 once a week and i use ro water even tho i have to ro's one is 100gpd and the other is 200 gpd it still takes forever the question i have is if your using a 48 site ebb and grow with the one 55 gallon drum res how often do i have to change that res that is alot of plants for just 55 gallons like i said i use a 40 gallon on my 4x4 and it seems like after 1 week my pump is already sucking air before it gets to the drain connection i see this being a big problem when it comes to the ebb and grow i just dont see 48 full sized plants in flower with only a 55 gallon res if anyone has some insite on this please let me know should i go with 2 24 site ebb and grows with 2 55 gallon res


This subject was chewed up and spit out a few pages back in this thread, but we all agreed 48 is *way* too many.


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## boxing119 (Feb 18, 2010)

would 2x600w lights be enough for 12 plants, im running 2x1000w right now but i hear 600's are just so much more efficient


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## smokingrubber (Feb 18, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> would 2x600w lights be enough for 12 plants, im running 2x1000w right now but i hear 600's are just so much more efficient


efficient is different than "better". 1000 is better (based on density of canopy). 600 is slightly cheaper to operate per lumen. Would you accept smaller buds and less coverage if it saves you $50 a month on the elec bill? I wouldn't.


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## boxing119 (Feb 18, 2010)

is it 50 dollars a month difference for 2x600w vs 2x1000w lights? and 50 may not seem like much with two lights but if your running like 8 lights that could really add up right?


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## doogleef (Feb 18, 2010)

Figuring out the power $ difference is easy. Just plug your figures into this formula:

watts/1000 * rate for power per KWH (mine is $.11)*12*30 = Cost for 12/12 bloom

watts/1000 * rate for power per KWH (mine is $.11)*18*30 = Cost for 18/6 veg

So for 600W it would be .6*.11*12*30 = $23.76 per lamp
1000W = 1*.11*12*30 = $39.60 per lamp


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## smokingrubber (Feb 18, 2010)

doogleef said:


> Figuring out the power $ difference is easy. Just plug your figures into this formula:
> 
> watts/1000 * rate for power per KWH (mine is $.11)*12*30 = Cost for 12/12 bloom
> 
> ...


And assuming you yield an average of .5 gram per watt, a 2k system would yield 1000 grams. It would cost: $39.60 x 2 lamps x 2 months = $158.40

A 1200w system would yield 600 grams. It would cost: $23.76 x 2 lamps x 2 months = $95.04.

That's a difference of 400 grams, at a cost difference of $63.60 

Assuming all other things are equal and you can adaquately handle either size. It's kind of a no-brainer imo. Now I'm sure Cheech the Green Thumb can squeeze every lumen out of that 600 and make it dance like a 1k ... but I ain't him. I need all the freakin help I can pay for.


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## NVMYTREES (Feb 19, 2010)

*Ok with my set up I purchased a 1000w with a 6' light rail How many plants would be suggested with this light configuration? The total are I have to work with is 8' X 15' with 8' ceilings and a amall attic area i was planning on putting my can 50 filter at. I can make the area smaller once i figure out how many plants. I plan on framing temp wall to have the correct amount of floor space and also purchased Mylar to line the walls. Also.. When I start my seeds should I do it rockwool? I've read different opinions as far as leaving them in the RW but should be fine if I make sure the rw doesnt get completely soaked is my understanding. If any body has any tricks ir techniques they would like to share on getting them started I would appreciate it. I'm excited to get started but dont want to rush things and screw it up. *


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## Quemado (Feb 19, 2010)

Any suggestions on how to clean/ flush between res changes??? Cleaning solutions or just plain ph'ed water???


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## smokingrubber (Feb 19, 2010)

NVMYTREES said:


> *Ok with my set up I purchased a 1000w with a 6' light rail How many plants would be suggested with this light configuration? The total are I have to work with is 8' X 15' with 8' ceilings and a amall attic area i was planning on putting my can 50 filter at. I can make the area smaller once i figure out how many plants. I plan on framing temp wall to have the correct amount of floor space and also purchased Mylar to line the walls. Also.. When I start my seeds should I do it rockwool? I've read different opinions as far as leaving them in the RW but should be fine if I make sure the rw doesnt get completely soaked is my understanding. If any body has any tricks ir techniques they would like to share on getting them started I would appreciate it. I'm excited to get started but dont want to rush things and screw it up. *


1. 1000w w/ 6' rail will cover a 5'x10' area. I would suggest 8 plants in that footprint.

2. The Can filter should be inside your grow room, with dirty air being sucked into it and expelled somewhere else (attic).

3. Mylar is not the preferred material because it creates hot-spots. You should line the walls with Panda Film (white on one side and black on the other) or fire blankets (i don't know what they're called). Or flat white paint if you've got paintable surfaces.

4. I tried just putting them in RW and 1 of 10 germed  My normal and future method is the cup of water. Place the beans in a cup with about 1/2" of distilled water. Just pour em in and stick the cup in the dark. They crack open in about 24 hours. Then I carefully place them (root down) in the RW. They sprout from the RW the next day. I'm at about 75 of 85 success rate like that.


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## NVMYTREES (Feb 19, 2010)

*Right on Smoking thamnk for the advice. What is better the paint or the panda film? I have paintable surfaces but I would buy the panda film if it is better. Panda film available at hydro store? Also I havent bought any seeds yet. I have some that I have saved up over the last few months They are the occasional seed you get out of some good product. Will these be ok to try and work with?*


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## smokingrubber (Feb 19, 2010)

NVMYTREES said:


> *Right on Smoking thamnk for the advice. What is better the paint or the panda film? I have paintable surfaces but I would buy the panda film if it is better. Panda film available at hydro store? Also I havent bought any seeds yet. I have some that I have saved up over the last few months They are the occasional seed you get out of some good product. Will these be ok to try and work with?*


Panda film is good because it resists mildew, and you don't have to paint anything. Yes it can be purchased or ordered from the hydro store.

Bag seed is not what I would recommend. You can save them and do them later if you want to, but 8 out of 10 bagseed are scraggle-crap imo. No matter what bag it came from. It's not ALL crap, but you're gambling a lot of time, money and energy on this hobby. Start with the best genetics you can get and gamble as little as possible.


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## NVMYTREES (Feb 20, 2010)

*What would be some Good beginere strands for Ebb & Grow?*


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 20, 2010)

Paradise - White berry. rock hard nugs, finishes fast, smells like blueberry purfume oh ands its abso-fuckin-lutly bullet proof. eats like a fat hog and is almost impossible to nute burn. very easy to work with its just about 90% indi and turns amazing colors at like 35days till finish, can be pulled at 50 days but take it atleast a week later. did i say this shit is indestructable? you can feed her gasoline and she might even show signs of deficiency! buy anything paradise seed co make, i have tried GHS, DNA, Big Buhda white label and i can confidently say those guys are doing it right, i would suggest DNA's genetics but i had some bad yielding LA conn and it takes an old pro to get her numbers up, but still a great line up, too leafy very stinky and potent, but like 30g/plant ===not good enough


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## mrduke (Feb 20, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> 3. Mylar is not the preferred material because it creates hot-spots. You should line the walls with Panda Film (white on one side and black on the other) or fire blankets (i don't know what they're called). Or flat white paint if you've got paintable surfaces.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I do believe you are mistaken on this smokin, tin foil is what makes hot spots. the fire/emergancy blankets are made of mylar. mylar is like 94% reflective where paint is about 87% and panda/visqueen are right at 90%


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## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

mrduke said:


> I do believe you are mistaken on this smokin, tin foil is what makes hot spots. the fire/emergancy blankets are made of mylar. mylar is like 94% reflective where paint is about 87% and panda/visqueen are right at 90%


No, plain Mylar is worse than foil for hot spots. At least foil can be crinckled. Any material that acts like glass, and can reflect light on a single point, creates hot spots. Mylar in the form of a fire blanket is stippled with another material and does not shine on one spot.

Example test:
Put a 1ft sq sheet of flat mylar on a table. Put a sheet of plain white sheet of paper next to it (this will represent flat white walls). Put out a piece of tin foil, panda film, fire blanket, or any other material you want to test on the table. Get a strong flashlight and turn out the lights.

Pass the flashlight over each material one at a time, and LOOK UP. The material that lights up the entire room best, and not just a couple spots is the winner.


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## doogleef (Feb 20, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> Paradise - White berry. rock hard nugs, finishes fast, smells like blueberry purfume oh ands its abso-fuckin-lutly bullet proof. eats like a fat hog and is almost impossible to nute burn. very easy to work with its just about 90% indi and turns amazing colors at like 35days till finish, can be pulled at 50 days but take it atleast a week later. did i say this shit is indestructable? you can feed her gasoline and she might even show signs of deficiency! buy anything paradise seed co make, i have tried GHS, DNA, Big Buhda white label and i can confidently say those guys are doing it right, i would suggest DNA's genetics but i had some bad yielding LA conn and it takes an old pro to get her numbers up, but still a great line up, too leafy very stinky and potent, but like 30g/plant ===not good enough


WOOT!

WhiteBerry is my favorite strain! I LOVE the stuff. So sweet and stoney. Fantastic meds for my back. I have access to all the clones I could want from all kinds of breeders and I still prefer to run clones of my F1 whiteberry mothers from Paradise. Fucking yummie stuff. Rep +


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 21, 2010)

they describe it as "model marijuana" , i left rooted clones for over a month in a nursery flat with rw and perlite and they started vegging...in a fucking nursery flat! grown with botanicare nutes with a 7day flush this stuff tastes as ganja should taste, like organic soil grown, very smooth..can smoke it without inhaling its so pleasent on the tongue


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## smokingrubber (Feb 21, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> they describe it as "model marijuana" , i left rooted clones for over a month in a nursery flat with rw and perlite and they started vegging...in a fucking nursery flat! grown with botanicare nutes with a 7day flush this stuff tastes as ganja should taste, like organic soil grown, very smooth..can smoke it without inhaling its so pleasent on the tongue


Great grow report. I've bookmarked it, and it will definately be in my basket during next month's TGA Subcool freebie sale.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 21, 2010)

one thing i have to warn you about, when freshly cut(easiest shit ever to trim) she needs atleast 2 weeks cure, she looks like average stuff but the longer the cure the better the bag appeal


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## cooley150 (Feb 21, 2010)

I just subscribed to this forum(GREAT by the way) and I joined Roll it up. Now maybe I'm a little "medicated" by HOW THE HELL do you Post a a message or thread????? Please help..Thanks


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## cooley150 (Feb 21, 2010)

Is this a reply or a post I just did???


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## cooley150 (Feb 21, 2010)

Can any one tell me if there is a different elbow from all the other elbows that come with the kit that has a small hole in it or something? Used on the reservoir lid?


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## shnkrmn (Feb 21, 2010)

cooley150 said:


> Can any one tell me if there is a different elbow from all the other elbows that come with the kit that has a small hole in it or something? Used on the reservoir lid?


Yes, it should have a piece of silver tape on it. If it's not installed properly you will have problems with your rez siphoning onto your floor.


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## boxing119 (Feb 21, 2010)

my plants look like they need trimmed up a bit, is it bad it i take them out and put them in another bucket out of the tent to trim? i wasnt sure if it would mess with the roots that were hanging through the bucket with the holes in it.


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## cooley150 (Feb 21, 2010)

Thank you very much.. I was wondering about the one with the silver tape...lol


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 21, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> my plants look like they need trimmed up a bit, is it bad it i take them out and put them in another bucket out of the tent to trim? i wasnt sure if it would mess with the roots that were hanging through the bucket with the holes in it.


this is my technique aswell, prepare a nice clean bucket and do your maintenance, trim, spray pesticides and what not


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## boxing119 (Feb 21, 2010)

morrisgreenberg- what do you use for pesticides? i have never used any and dont want any mites or anything to ruin my crop


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## mrduke (Feb 22, 2010)

having an extr bucket makes every thimg easier. i have 2 i use so i can rotate the plants around under the lights with out having to set them on there roots. also as morris said for maintanance and for the final chop cause the water still runs out and makes a huge mess with out another bucket to hold it in


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 22, 2010)

spraying some kind of pesticide is good for preventions during veg, but flower i wouldnt spray at all, i use lady bugs and azatrol. azatrol is a systemic anti-feedant anti-reproductive pesticide that you add to the rez, this will make your plants not as tasty to the critters. you can start with neem oil for prevention or some kind of pyrethrium spray every couple of weeks


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## boxing119 (Feb 22, 2010)

does anyone have any tips on trimming? lol i pulled a plant out to trim and really wasn't sure what to do . any tips would be great.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 22, 2010)

lop the big water leaves off, then hang the branch in the dark for about 5 days. Take it down and trim it up with sharp small scissors then put the bud in a glass mason jar. Open the jar and move the bud around at least once a day. Ready and cured 5-14 days after being jarred.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 22, 2010)

i think boxing is refering to some minor pruning, just clear away all they littl twiggy stuff that isnt getting light, just do only the lower 25% of the plant. i do more advanced stuff but i wouldnt recommend this to you yet, right now just focus on keeping it clean down there for the sake of air flow


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## smokingrubber (Feb 22, 2010)

Does anyone have a tape mearsure handy? I need to know the diameter of the reservior (measure the lid from one side to the other). I am at work doing some cad work for my friend's grow room. Thanks a lot.

I'm guessing 28"?


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## shnkrmn (Feb 22, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Does anyone have a tape mearsure handy? I need to know the diameter of the reservior (measure the lid from one side to the other). I am at work doing some cad work for my friend's grow room. Thanks a lot.
> 
> I'm guessing 28"?


According to Wikipedia a standard 55 gallon drum has a diameter of 23.5. I'm not at home but that seems small in my mind's eye.


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## boxing119 (Feb 22, 2010)

yeah morris is right im not to the cutting down part im only in my second week of flower but they are getting real big and bushy quick,.... any tips on how to move this system i just got a new house and have to move verything out of my apt this weekend my plants are probably 24" tall and am reall worried about killing them in the move


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 22, 2010)

ouch, well as you know by now the plants in the system can go atleast 6hours without water, now take away the fact that they will not be under intense HID lighting they can make it even longer without water. when i used to drive delivery for a flower shop the real delicate stuff would go into its own milk crate and tied into the crate using wire or string so that it didnt move inside the crate, we also used a van. so if you can rent one or have a friend to help, but this is not advised. if can afford rent a van and do this yourself. i once moved a soil Op but i also had an SUV. if you have that recipe for succes kit that comes with the system you may want to foliar your plants after they are in the new home, use the thrivealive green or red it dont matter, this helps with stress. good luck


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## boxing119 (Feb 22, 2010)

everythings legal on my side, but my lights turn on at 6pm and off at 6 am so i will be moving the plants in the dark period, i was thinking about butting one in a huge box with a trash bag covering the top so the box is taller and nothing can get in the box.... would this work? its only like a 20 min drive from where i am now so they wont have much time in the truck


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## smokingrubber (Feb 22, 2010)

If they are already in 12/12 flower, move the plants during their light period. The dark period is much more important that they get 12 hrs of uninterupted darkness. It won't hurt any if they get extra dark time.


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## Sinclue (Feb 22, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Does anyone have a tape mearsure handy? I need to know the diameter of the reservior (measure the lid from one side to the other). I am at work doing some cad work for my friend's grow room. Thanks a lot.
> 
> I'm guessing 28"?


Measures 21.5 inches in diameter. (22" to outside of lip at top).
FYI 3' tall.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 22, 2010)

Sinclue said:


> Measures 21.5 inches in diameter. (22" to outside of lip at top).
> FYI 3' tall.


Saweeeet  Good lookin yo!


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## boxing119 (Feb 22, 2010)

so would you guys say it woulbe be best to move like right at 6-pm berfore the tights are supposed to go on?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 22, 2010)

yes dont interupt the dark cycle, its never good to move but it happens, your main issues will be bugs, stress and security and last but not least transporting in a vehicle that has the room to not break your prescious branches, if ya stuff is legal make sure you have all your paper work ready, just if you have some kind of supplement like liquid karma or thrive alive or superthrive or a vitamin, try to drench your buckets when your settled in, fastest way is to foliar like i said before, with the addition of fresh nutes in your first res after the move, hygrozyme will also help your plants , they wont skip a beat


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## boxing119 (Feb 22, 2010)

has any one ever used a green light bulb during dark cycle i was told if u use the green light it does not effect the plant in dark stage


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## xceptional (Feb 22, 2010)

yeah i use a green light. i think this thread had some real value but i think it's kind of getting off topic. lots of the questions are just straight up general questions and allthough they are helpful to get answered quickly they make it hard to find the Ebb and Grow specific conversation. 

EBB AND GROW USERS, anyone using a different system to veg in? if so how, aero mediumless? i want to veg in another room but i dont want to buy a second ebb and grow (yet). was thinking about using a aero setup and just dropping them into the buckets when they are ready.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 22, 2010)

I'm setting up a veg tent, but I'm using another bucket system. I didn't want to do it, but it's too damn convenient. They won't be in the veg tent long enough to grow roots into the plumbing, so I won't have to swap out those hoses too often.


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## doogleef (Feb 22, 2010)

Vegging in netpots in another system (aero, DWC, E/F, whatever .... does not really matter) then just dropping pot and all in the buckets works good. You can also veg for awhile in 16oz solo party cups full of coco and then transplant that into whatever you want if you have to go ghetto for awhile.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 23, 2010)

aero cloner directly to the e&g is great, your right X, this thread got way off topic, lets try to clean this up guys


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## shnkrmn (Feb 23, 2010)

xceptional said:


> yeah i use a green light. i think this thread had some real value but i think it's kind of getting off topic. lots of the questions are just straight up general questions and allthough they are helpful to get answered quickly they make it hard to find the Ebb and Grow specific conversation.
> 
> EBB AND GROW USERS, anyone using a different system to veg in? if so how, aero mediumless? i want to veg in another room but i dont want to buy a second ebb and grow (yet). was thinking about using a aero setup and just dropping them into the buckets when they are ready.


I'm cloning in aero and vegging in a turbogarden flood and drain in 5 inch net pots. When The buckets are available, the netpots go into the buckets.


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## mrduke (Feb 23, 2010)

i veg mine in a home made rubbermaid ebb flo table in 4x4 plastic pots veg 2-3 weeks then pop 'em inthe bucketsfor one more week, and off we go


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## boxing119 (Feb 23, 2010)

can you use the ebb and grow with out a medium like rockwool?or can you just use hydroton and put the rooted clones in that?


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## doogleef (Feb 23, 2010)

Yes


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## fatguyinaliitecoat (Feb 24, 2010)

xceptional said:


> i thought all my fellow E&G growers would like this bit of info.
> 
> http://www.greners.com/hydroponics/systems/ebb-flow.html
> 
> ...


 
Are these still available??? I can't find them.


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## GHOPZZ (Feb 24, 2010)

can you grow big plants in the ebb and grow system ? they come with only 2 gallon buckets?? do you just veg yes time?? how big can the plants get in the buckets? can you change them to 5 gallon buckets?? is it possible to customize this system?


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## boxing119 (Feb 25, 2010)

Please help me with some advice, so i woke up this morning at 9 am and my lights are supposed to go off at 6 am. somehow my fucking timer got messed up and didnt shut shit down. i am in the flower stage and just not really sure what to do now, are my plants fucked for yeilds or what should it do.. i could figure out a way for the lights to stay off till 9? but would that even make a difference? how much will the plants react to this mistake?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 25, 2010)

3 hrs isn't that bad. Its a little stressful, but at least it wasn't longer. Now the bad part is: youre gonna have to get up at 6 every day and double-check the lights!


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## xceptional (Feb 25, 2010)

fatguyinaliitecoat said:


> Are these still available??? I can't find them.



lol i just went to the link and i can not find them either! crazy thing is they were just there like a week ago and have been there for sale for months. i would give them a call i'm about to call because i want a few and had not ordered them yet!


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## shnkrmn (Feb 25, 2010)

It's doubtful they will react at all to one episode of prolonged light. Just make sure they get 12 hours of dark. And replace your timer or figure out why it failed or you will have a repeat.


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## boxing119 (Feb 25, 2010)

thanks for the help guys and yeah definitely going to get some new timers, should i change my water cycle so they don't get watered or should i keep that the same and than go back to 6pm on and 6 am off OR should i now make it off at 9am offand on at 9pm because thats what its going to do tonight because thats the only way it will get 12 hrs dark cycle?


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 25, 2010)

boxing you run 1000 watters right? i forget how many you have, but if you use the hydro times i know they are shitty and some are just defective


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## boxing119 (Feb 25, 2010)

yeah i am running 2x1000w it was my fault that it had messed up i guess we had lost power and it just needed to be rest. i figured i would just switch the light cycle to 9pm on and 9am off so they could get the full 12 hrs of darkness. the ballast im running is Xtrasun, if thats what you were referring to, thanks for all the help


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## fatguyinaliitecoat (Feb 26, 2010)

xceptional said:


> lol i just went to the link and i can not find them either! crazy thing is they were just there like a week ago and have been there for sale for months. i would give them a call i'm about to call because i want a few and had not ordered them yet!


 
Did you have any luck finding them?


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## cooley150 (Feb 26, 2010)

I have 24 clones that are now showing roots out of the bottom of the 3in rock wool cubes. I have now transferred them into my Ebb & Grow system. I am starting them out on 1/4 strength nutes for the first week and then bump it up to 1/2 the second week. How often should I feed them? They're on 18/6 light cycle and currently I'm feeding 3 times a day. Once at 6am(when the lights turn on) again at noon and the 3rd time at 6pm. Lights turn off at midnight. Is this a good schedule??? Should I be feeding at night??? Seems too me like my rock wool cubes are really wet all the time. Oh and I have a 1000 watt light (The "Ocho") about 3 feet above the plants. The light DOES NOT get hot at all with the fan cooling the lights. Temp in the room stays at a constant 75 degrees 45-50% humidity..
I have 3 different strains...Purple Kush, AK-47, and Blue Cheese.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 26, 2010)

cooley everything sounds just right, so far you have a feeding taking place every 6 hours, try to put a piece of poly over your cubes, if they are always wet expect to see some algae groeth on them. i would wait for some roots to grow to the bottom of the pots to change the floods to every 3-4hours and bump up in nutrients


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## cooley150 (Feb 27, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> cooley everything sounds just right, so far you have a feeding taking place every 6 hours, try to put a piece of poly over your cubes, if they are always wet expect to see some algae groeth on them. i would wait for some roots to grow to the bottom of the pots to change the floods to every 3-4hours and bump up in nutrients



Thank you very much for the info.


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## Agent Smokealot (Feb 28, 2010)

fatguyinaliitecoat said:


> Did you have any luck finding them?



Just looked to purchase some and they are not there. They were there about 2 wks. ago. Also i noticed that they no longer carry the complete system.


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## xceptional (Feb 28, 2010)

anyone running tomato cages on their buckets? i'm planning on going to buy 30 tomato cages tomorrow and zip tie them to the lip of the top buckets. anyone had any expierence with this? my plants can not hold theirself up and to tie them up is a pain in the ass. also with the cages going from wider to narrow i think i can do some sick ass lst work on the outside of these cages ?!?!?!?


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## shnkrmn (Mar 1, 2010)

xceptional said:


> anyone running tomato cages on their buckets? i'm planning on going to buy 30 tomato cages tomorrow and zip tie them to the lip of the top buckets. anyone had any expierence with this? my plants can not hold theirself up and to tie them up is a pain in the ass. also with the cages going from wider to narrow i think i can do some sick ass lst work on the outside of these cages ?!?!?!?


dagambler is using sections of no-climb fencing rolled into cylinders and stuck in the top on his buckets. Looks like they work pretty good. Seems to me that regular tomato cages get wider as they go up so they would create a lot of shade down below. Maybe if you could use them upsidedown?


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 1, 2010)

tomato cages are the way to go, forget trellis systems and nets, the cages allow you to keep your pots independant. used as you would normally do will not cause any shading, they are thin wire! sick LST work can be done, like spiral limbs along the outside of the cage or traditional tie down, you can pick up at garden shops rolls of twist tie string, very cheap and makes things easy. i love to fold the center cola down and tie her to train to go on the outside while trying to get some outer colas into the center. definitly increases production


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## L.A.RAIDER (Mar 1, 2010)

Has anyone besides me had a problem with the controller bucket malfunctioning ???
I have had 2 now and both have had the same problem. made by C.A.P.
My first controller bucket worked perfect for about 2 and a half months and about
10 or so days befor harvest I went in to check on my girls and noticed they had not
drained after there first watering cycle. they just sat there soaking for hours. NOT GOOD.

I unpluged the controller bucket and that seemed to get them to start draing back to the resivor
and then I ralized I would have to get up evey 4 hors to maually drain these lil bitches every 4 hours
until I harvest and can brake down the system and get it replaced by warantee. Which they did no problem.

But now after all that crap my new controller bucket is doing the same thing just 3 weeks in. sonofabitch,

I talked to the guys about it at the corp. offices and basicly they have tried a few diffrent things to fix the 
problem but odviously its not working. but they will keep replacing them for me. well thats swell but 
braking this thing down is not fun or easy when you got 12 fat biches in your way and now you got 
nutriant soluton everywhere.
When its time to drain back to the res the light clicks to drain cycle and I hear it click but it doesnt start draing
until I either unplug it and plug it back in or spin the timer around and that can get it to drain also.
But what a pain in the ass.

What I dont understand is how I have had both of my controller buckets have the same problem 
and the company is more than aware of the problem there having with there controller buckets.
But NOT 1 of you on this post have said 1 thing about having this problem or any other problem 
with this contoller bucket.
Have any of you had this problem or heard of this happening to anyone else ?


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## redduke (Mar 2, 2010)

I have had similar issues but the problem is not with the controller it is with the pumps getting air locked. I make sure everytime I clean res or start new to stand by for the first cycle of watering to make sure it cycles. Many times the system has flooded and not ebbed. I will actually use my mouth to blow or suck from one end or the other to assure the pumps prime and start. Once I know the system is effectively cycling it will work for week/s until I clean again. I hope this helps. 
redduke.




L.A.RAIDER said:


> Has anyone besides me had a problem with the controller bucket malfunctioning ???
> I have had 2 now and both have had the same problem. made by C.A.P.
> My first controller bucket worked perfect for about 2 and a half months and about
> 10 or so days befor harvest I went in to check on my girls and noticed they had not
> ...


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## doogleef (Mar 2, 2010)

Sounds like an air lock issue to me.


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## Sinclue (Mar 2, 2010)

[COLOR=#556b2f said:


> What I dont understand is how I have had both of my controller buckets have the same problem [/COLOR]
> and the company is more than aware of the problem there having with there controller buckets.
> But NOT 1 of you on this post have said 1 thing about having this problem or any other problem
> with this contoller bucket.
> ...


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## dtp5150 (Mar 2, 2010)

i just ordered one of these. thank you for the tips


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## L.A.RAIDER (Mar 2, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> i just ordered one of these. thank you for the tips


 
My problem is definatly not air lock.
its some sort of relay I think. 
2 of the same mecanical failures in a row is the weirdest thing. They admitted to me at C.A.P. that they were having alot of these controllers sent back for this same problem. and they fix what they thinkis the problem but it keeps happening. they told me they are trying different relays and a few other things, until the problem is solved and getting up every four hours through the night to see if its draining on its own suks balls. 
It might work the next few times and then when I think its working right the lil basterd doesnt drain back to the res.
and they stay full of water until I see the problem and handle it. what if I were gone for a couple of days and this happened wouldnt they get root rot and die or something?


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## dtp5150 (Mar 2, 2010)

that sucks isn't there an aftermarket one?


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## L.A.RAIDER (Mar 2, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> that sucks isn't there an aftermarket one?


 
Aftermarket what ? relay or controller bucket ?
I wouldnt know where to start with the relay and if the manufacturer cant fix it then I cant see me fixxing it. since i dont know for sure why its working 1 minute and not the next. plus if i pull the tape to get into the timer box it will void the warantee. i think.


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## xceptional (Mar 2, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> tomato cages are the way to go, forget trellis systems and nets, the cages allow you to keep your pots independant. used as you would normally do will not cause any shading, they are thin wire! sick LST work can be done, like spiral limbs along the outside of the cage or traditional tie down, you can pick up at garden shops rolls of twist tie string, very cheap and makes things easy. i love to fold the center cola down and tie her to train to go on the outside while trying to get some outer colas into the center. definitly increases production



i really would LOVE to see some pics of this setup you have! if not comfortable posting in the thread maybe PM? 

also does eveyone know that *CAP EBB AND GROW EXPANSIONS ARE ON BACKORDER!*

Cap has some financial issues if you have not heard the rumors there are tons floating around about the reason like them owing something like 2.1 million to Sunlight supply and potentially loosing 41% of the company to them due to the debt.


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## dtp5150 (Mar 3, 2010)

dude there are expansions on ebay I think, maybe not brand name but compatible

also, damn, that they are going out business, maybe due to this relay stuff, and also their kits were very cheap!

cannot you make a timer based ebb&flow out of these kits? I guess a flood and drain.


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## doogleef (Mar 3, 2010)

Don't flood during lights off. The plants don't use water in the dark.


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## patlpp (Mar 3, 2010)

xceptional said:


> Cap has some financial issues if you have not heard the rumors there are tons floating around about the reason like them owing something like 2.1 million to Sunlight supply and potentially loosing 41% of the company to them due to the debt.


The design flaws I see in this ebb/grow system:
1) No redundant float switch to prevent overflow. Easy fix
2) Analog timer (runs too slow or fast) unable to adjust <12 min increments. Should go digital. Timer too mechanical, prone to problems 
3) Controller should be segregated from bucket so you can mount externally (have a wiring harness to bucket)
no more crawling to set time!! 
4) Too small plumbing system - Could have used larger bucket & larger diameter lines to increase flow. Bucket capability overstated
5) Power feed to controller enters from bottom,almost at floor level. Should be from top so if there were a flood, ac would not be submerged.
6) More durable buckets. Better pump adapters (remember getting the flex hose on them?#&*^%

The good thing is they grow excellent plants!! I have had good support also. But if I had to do it over, I wouldn't buy one . It is designed for big grows, I'm small time. I's ideal for fast install/big grow.


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## puttnbike (Mar 3, 2010)

Google "diy ebb and grow" look for Ogre and follow the tutorial(easy lots of pics), the biggest expense were the 2 gallon black buckets and shipping(US Plastics Corp.or something like that). Works great. The only thing I will change on my next controller bucket is to mount the lower level float switches lower.


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## dtp5150 (Mar 3, 2010)

puttnbike said:


> Google "diy ebb and grow" look for Ogre and follow the tutorial(easy lots of pics), the biggest expense were the 2 gallon black buckets and shipping(US Plastics Corp.or something like that). Works great. The only thing I will change on my next controller bucket is to mount the lower level float switches lower.


maybe this shows where you can get a new relay...that radio shack one..


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## xceptional (Mar 4, 2010)

patlpp said:


> The design flaws I see in this ebb/grow system:
> 1) No redundant float switch to prevent overflow. Easy fix
> 2) Analog timer (runs too slow or fast) unable to adjust <12 min increments. Should go digital. Timer too mechanical, prone to problems
> 3) Controller should be segregated from bucket so you can mount externally (have a wiring harness to bucket)
> ...


1. i agree but i dont see it as a issue i have never had a overflow nor has my buddy in his.
2. what is the issue with the timer! digital by far is more prone to issues. the more parts the more potential for failure! why would you want less time 15 min is the least amount of time i would want to run even 12 buckets. 
3. TOTALLY AGREE!!!!! it also prevents the electrical waist up, water waste down protocol.
4. bucket size looks ok to me i have a friend with plants over 50" right now and they are feeding just fine. why more space? sounds like just more medium to clean to me. the hose could be bigger that would prevent clogs i agree. 
5. this is not a issue if 3 was resolved!
6. i have not cracked a bucket but i have heard about it happening so i agree. putting the fittings in was not that bad i didnt have a issue but i had a hell of a indent in my hand by the time i was done!


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## xceptional (Mar 4, 2010)

well i heard now from a good source that the factory that CAP uses in China to make their plastics burned down! i guess they are digging through the rummage for the molds because metal molds dont get harmed by a fire. i swear i'm not making this shit up i dont make rumors and i have a pretty good source...


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## dtp5150 (Mar 4, 2010)

damn thats crazy!

I just got mine set up today. Its a good system, provided everything continues to work.


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## patlpp (Mar 4, 2010)

xceptional said:


> 1. i agree but i dont see it as a issue i have never had a overflow nor has my buddy in his.
> 
> Others have. The float switch is maybe 2$ and could be placed upside down and wired in series with the existing one.. Let me tell you, the first time you have to clean up a 50 gal spill, it's an issue.
> 
> ...


These suggestions aren't just my own. I'm just throwin this shit out for discussion. Your right though,why mess with this unit, maybe the failure rate is not that much to justify a redesign. But a redesign would improve reliability, and if one company won't, another company will. Of course it would probably cost more. Isn't another company selling a similar digital version of the ebb/gro?


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## dtp5150 (Mar 4, 2010)

i think i will look at installing a 2nd float valve


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## patlpp (Mar 5, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> i think i will look at installing a 2nd float valve


http://www.aquahub.com/store/product32.html

Link to the switch. They are 10$ now, inflation

From there you can follow the links to http://www.aquahub.com/store/diygbuildebb.html a do it yourself kit for 80$. Its instructions show how to build one with switch redundancy.


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## dtp5150 (Mar 5, 2010)

thank you patipp

yes and it would probably be a good idea to test to make sure if they both work every once in a while


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## WaterDog (Mar 5, 2010)

Does anyone think that the bottom inch of water left in buckets could hurt anything? Should I totally vacuum dry doing res changes? I'm running 11 buckets.

I put a water pump for circulation and 3, 6 inch airstones in the 55 gallon drum, it may be overkill but cant hurt.

When making RES changes, does anyone run pure water for a day or 2 ever? Maybe every other change? Would that help anything? Hurt? Thanks alot


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## dtp5150 (Mar 5, 2010)

waterdog, the instructions say an easy way to fully drain the buckets is to lift them off the ground a few inches. I did it and it works.


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## xceptional (Mar 5, 2010)

patlpp said:


> Isn't another company selling a similar digital version of the ebb/gro?



yeah sentinel the digital controller manufacture everyone uses lol. 

square buckets, digital controller, controller not mounted to brain, bottom drain on buckets so no 2" of stagnant water in the bottom everything many people have asked for. i think it has larger hose also.


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## patlpp (Mar 5, 2010)

xceptional said:


> yeah sentinel the digital controller manufacture everyone uses lol.
> 
> square buckets, digital controller, controller not mounted to brain, bottom drain on buckets so no 2" of stagnant water in the bottom everything many people have asked for. i think it has larger hose also.


They aren't on sale yet are they? I cant find one with a price. When they come out with expansion kits I'm buyin one to replace at least the buckets.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 6, 2010)

Sentinel MEF-1 http://www.edenhydroponic.com/content/sentinel-mef-1-modular-ebb-flow-system

FYI, that system does NOT include the reservior like the CAP system does.

One site had that same price listed a month ago, then it mysteriously dropped off as soon as people started ordering.

If the Sentinel is really shipping now I'm gonna be pissed. I bought two CAP systems about 2 weeks ago! They're both still brand new, unopened if anybody wants them. I only bought them because the Sentinel was unavailable, but these can hit ebay in a heartbeat. I'll eat $50 ea if I have to.


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## mrduke (Mar 6, 2010)

what makes the sentenel so much better? Wht would you give up a prove system for one that isn't? are you not happy


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## smokingrubber (Mar 6, 2010)

mrduke said:


> what makes the sentenel so much better? Wht would you give up a prove system for one that isn't? are you not happy


There are several things that make the Sentinel better imo. The differences and improvements have been listed and debated a few pages back. I don't want to list them all, but the main improvement is the wall mounted control system. For $600 it shouldn't be too much to ask for a damn computer?

Manufacturer of Sentinel Products:
*Global Product Solutions*, LLC 
422 Larkfield Ctr. PMB 281
Santa Rosa, Ca. 95401
*Phone:* 877- growgps (877-476-9477)​ 
I called, but it they're not there at 8am on a saturday. Anybody live near Santa Rosa? Wanna go knock on the door and ask them what's up with the MEF-1 for me? I will buy two this week, if they're shipping soon.


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## boxing119 (Mar 6, 2010)

smoking rubber, do u think it would be a problem with the roots if it trained underneath the buckets like the Sentinel does because i too would like to make the switch for my new setup but don't want to be running in to problems with the switch, also is this one expandable like the ebb and gro


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## smokingrubber (Mar 6, 2010)

With either system, I would recommend replacing all of the tubing between grows. It's a cheap and easy way of eliminating any root growth in the lines. I've got to take it all apart to clean anyway.

My friend wants to try installing fabric root barrier in the bottom of the first pot so that the roots don't grow through as much. I'm not sold on the idea, but I will probably try it on 2 pots and see what happens.


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## dtp5150 (Mar 6, 2010)

yeah and I wonder if the controller goes out on the the ebb& gro if it can be replaced with a GH controller or this sentinel one. the 55 gallon drum is badass though..

also day 2 with the ebb & gro and its working great. my plants are lovin it.


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## mrduke (Mar 6, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Manufacturer of Sentinel Products:
> *Global Product Solutions*, LLC
> 422 Larkfield Ctr. PMB 281
> Santa Rosa, Ca. 95401
> ...


hey funny thing that place is like 2 miles from my house, never even knew I'll seeif i can get by this week


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## L.A.RAIDER (Mar 8, 2010)

mrduke said:


> hey funny thing that place is like 2 miles from my house, never even knew I'll seeif i can get by this week


 


Can anyone tell me why a plant would drink more than eat ? I have to add water to my res every day to keep it from going to high. I have been keeping it around 1500 ppm to 1700 ppm but this strain seems to not like it this high becouse I am getting some fried leafs and soe yellowing. The ppm seems to go up from 1500 to 1525 so abot 25 or so ppm each time it goes into watering cycle.
is this normal ? or are the nutes getting locked outit ? They seem to growing very nicely with the exception of some yellowing and some fan lefs drying out.

I use GH 3 part plus 
liquid coolbloom
floral blend
floralicous plus
so 6 parts total


my water is 525 ppm to start with out of the tap

I mix the micro first and let the pump and airstone mix the solution as I put the other nutes in, waiting a cople of minutes between droping in the diferent nutes.
than adjust the ph to around 5.8 or so
5.6 to 6.0
5.8 being the sweet spot.

Shouldnt the plants idealy drink and eat about the same? so I dont have to weaken my nutrian sollution every day ?


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## dtp5150 (Mar 8, 2010)

your temperature is too high, humidity too low, or both


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 8, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/269532-earlesque-hydro-feeding-method.html

cut back on the nutrient strength just a little. under intense lighting and high heat the plants will drink much more water. read the link on my theory/method on feeding. let the plants dictate to you if your feeding them right. i think it would be prudent to invest in an R/O filter


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## L.A.RAIDER (Mar 8, 2010)

MY temp is about 78 f during light cycle and 55% humidity give or take. I dont think its that.
Maybe its my hard ass water??? I know I need ro water. MY broke ass is trying to save for 1.
any other ideas? do you think the nute might be getting locked out?


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## L.A.RAIDER (Mar 8, 2010)

Is it normal for the plants to drink more than eat ??
is it ideal for the nutes to stay at the same ppm between res changes?


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## dtp5150 (Mar 8, 2010)

L.A.RAIDER said:


> Is it normal for the plants to drink more than eat ??
> is it ideal for the nutes to stay at the same ppm between res changes?


just keep adding water...as long as the plants are healthy its all good


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## L.A.RAIDER (Mar 10, 2010)

Can anyone let me know? 

doesnt eveyone try to get there nute sollution to a certain ppm that is going into the plant at the same rate as the water ?
therefore not needing to constantly add water to the res between res changes which is constantly weakening the nutes
in the res ? or is that not realistic, does everyone have to add water ? I have heard people say there plants sometimes eat
more than drink and they have to constantly add nutes.
Do I need to put less nutes in my res to find a ratio that doesnt bring my ppm up every day about 75 ppm ?? or ?


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## Chumlie (Mar 10, 2010)

I want ever buy any CAP product. about two months ago I purchased a 80 dollar adjustable timer and it was dead on arival so I sent it to the main headquaters to get fix came back about a month later and it was dead on arival again, so i sent it of again. It came back about three days ago and still dead on arival. I think they just retaped the box with the label and sent back to me. so its to late to return it to the the shop that I bought it from, so now its in the scrap box. I decided to build my own for about 40 to 50 bucks less, but still it sucks because its more money out of the pocket. I had to rant about somewhere...therapy, sorta


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## L.A.RAIDER (Mar 10, 2010)

Chumlie said:


> I want ever buy any CAP product. about two months ago I purchased a 80 dollar adjustable timer and it was dead on arival so I sent it to the main headquaters to get fix came back about a month later and it was dead on arival again, so i sent it of again. It came back about three days ago and still dead on arival. I think they just retaped the box with the label and sent back to me. so its to late to return it to the the shop that I bought it from, so now its in the scrap box. I decided to build my own for about 40 to 50 bucks less, but still it sucks because its more money out of the pocket. I had to rant about somewhere...therapy, sorta


 
I have had a lot of problems with CAP's stuff also.
They are not a very good product. GREAT IDEAS but its all chinees crap parts. those cheap bastards. atleast send 5 bucks or so more in parts and there stuff could be way better. they will be bought out by sunlight supply boon enough and maybe they can solve there tech. problems


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## dtp5150 (Mar 10, 2010)

raiders hows the plants doing? i have 11 buckets set up now with a 3/4 strength flowering solution under 300watt LED and my plants love it!


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## $weet james jones (Mar 11, 2010)

can someone tell me if this ebb and grow kit is anygood? its the only kind availble where im from and i havent got time for a d.i.y. i havent seen a control bucket like that before? will it be as good as the smaller more expensive ones? any help much apreciated!check the link...
http://sog.open24x7.biz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=298&osCsid=1ffbe9a4c949a0d30fb8b8d1c7c8ba34


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## smokingrubber (Mar 11, 2010)

L.A.RAIDER said:


> Is it normal for the plants to drink more than eat ??
> is it ideal for the nutes to stay at the same ppm between res changes?


It depends on how many plants you are feeding, and how much water is in the res, and how old the plants are. I have found (and heard) that 5 gallons per plant is optimum. I am feeding 8 plants with 40 gallons.

Once a month, I will flush my system with FloraKleen. I heard differing opinions, so I didn't do it during the grow. Next time I WILL. Everying was going smoothly until about week 5 (flower) when I started to get some lock-out. Next time I will definately flush once a month, just for 1 day.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 11, 2010)

mrduke said:


> hey funny thing that place is like 2 miles from my house, never even knew I'll seeif i can get by this week


Have you had a chance to go over there? I'm really interested in when we can expect the MEF-1 to start shipping.


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 11, 2010)

flush once a month, or i dont know how stable you PH is, but if a normal new fresh tank PH'd at 5.5 takes a couple of days to get into the 6's then everything is just fine, if start ph is 5.5 and next day its at 7.0 thats when you know for sure you need to flush. aniother good indicator is taking a water sample from the control bucket or from one of the pots of the left over standing water and check ppm/ec, if these numbers are drastically hgiher than what you maintan your res at then its time for a flush, and florakleen and clearex are awesome aslong as they are given a day or 2 or like 10-12 floods to unlock biuldup


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## dtp5150 (Mar 11, 2010)

is that big hole on the top of the reservoir too big? maybe covering that up with some plastic or something would keep the php more stable and overall healthier water. i've done this because that hole seems too big to not have a cover on it.


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## Blue Moonshine1 (Mar 11, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> havent found a grow yet that had success with STG inserts, although STG's other types like cubes work well but not with theE & G, on stg's youtube video they put a piece of PVC inside the buckets to raise the insert so it doesnt sit in water, even the E & G instructions say if plants do not look healthy raise each bucket, you can see why it could happen, given that 2 inches of water at the bottom can accumulate salts. these issues can be solved by raising buckets or flushing monthly. one thing thats not discussed is actual flushing, sinces theres water everywhere inside the tubing it will take a few days to get it all out, my flush method goes like this. day 1 - dump rez fill with plain ph's water. day 2 - after the first 24 hours and a few flood cycles the ppms in your rez will be higher after mixing in with leftover water in the system, for this i dumpe the rez again and add ph'd plain water again. day 3 - after another 24 hours i dump and addback again or until my rez water ppm is less than 200. i do this only because theres so few flodd cycles to give it a thorough cleaning withing a day and tons of clay pellets hold onto salts, no matter the medium monthly flushing is key to never have problems, so IMO only the cleaning of clay and a good flush are the only laborious parts of using this system, completly idiot proof and amazing growth rates, actually the only system out there that comes close or surpasses the growth rate is aeroponics, which i have ditched for this


man im so glad i found this thread!!!!!!! we just bought a 1000w MH/HPS and the 12 site E&G! Journal coming soon...


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## mrduke (Mar 13, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Have you had a chance to go over there? I'm really interested in when we can expect the MEF-1 to start shipping.


AH shit i knew there was somthing i want to do last week I'll try next week.


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## bonkbonk (Mar 14, 2010)

Hey guys,

I'm installing my new Ebb N Grow system and the directions tell me to connect a 90 degree vacuum release elbow to the resevoir. It states that this elbox is the one with the silver tag.

I don't have any elbows with a silver tag and all of the included elbows look the same. Will it still work if I use a regular elbow?


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## shnkrmn (Mar 14, 2010)

no. You really need that or your tank will siphon out, overflowing your controller and pots. Look closely at your elbows. The hole is pretty small. There might be some residue from where the silver tape was, look for that too. Or you'll have to contact the seller. You must have it.


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## cooley150 (Mar 14, 2010)

bonkbonk said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm installing my new Ebb N Grow system and the directions tell me to connect a 90 degree vacuum release elbow to the resevoir. It states that this elbox is the one with the silver tag.
> 
> I don't have any elbows with a silver tag and all of the included elbows look the same. Will it still work if I use a regular elbow?



if for some reason you can't find it, do what I did. Take one of the elbows and drill a small hole in it. That,s all it is. The picture in the instructions should show you the placement of the hole.


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## dtp5150 (Mar 15, 2010)

i thought mine didn't come with it too but it was in the 2nd bag of parts. and yeah if you have a drill it shouldn't be hard t make a new one. the hole points down.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 15, 2010)

My first grow was Hydroton. Not bad, but it could have been better imo. I have heard that Coco Cior provides a better final flavor. I believe it's organic though, so that may open a whole different can of worms for me.

Has anyone switched from Hydroton to Coco in their Ebb & Grow system? What advise or comments can you provide? I'm using GENERAL HYDROPONICS 9-part mix. All-chemical, not organic. I have been adding H2o2. If I switch to coco, would I have to go organic or could I stick with GH?


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## L.A.RAIDER (Mar 15, 2010)

Blue Moonshine1 said:


> man im so glad i found this thread!!!!!!! we just bought a 1000w MH/HPS and the 12 site E&G! Journal coming soon...


I had a succesfull grow using the stg inserts. It was my first hydro grow and yeilded as much as could be expected.
That being said, 
I am now using hydroton
I felt the stg inserts retained way to much water. when I threw them away after harvesting, they were very heavy and full of water. the roots grew very well in them and I only flushed 1 time for the last 7 to 10 days.
But I have not heard any one else say they any thing good about the inserts.
The 1 thing I can say thats kinda good about them besides there ease of use is the water that they do retain can save your ass if your pump fails and your bitches arent getting watered. they can suvive a long time with the water stuck in the insert.
But Hydroton is the better choice. in my opinion and everyone elses i think.


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## Quemado (Mar 15, 2010)

I fugged up my first GDP grow just some stupid impatient mistakes. I got 12 Chem 4 clones that have been in there for a week. They are looking cool


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## boxing119 (Mar 15, 2010)

hey guys i switched out my rez yesterday and just went to check on it and it seems like there is some white foam substance ontop and outlining the water line, is this common or something to be worried about?


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## Str8Dank (Mar 16, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> hey guys i switched out my rez yesterday and just went to check on it and it seems like there is some white foam substance ontop and outlining the water line, is this common or something to be worried about?


you should start a thread about this. too many variables to answer in here that just dont pertain to this threads topic. 

the nutes you are using, any additives, airrate your res etc etc all would need to be answered to help you.


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## Str8Dank (Mar 16, 2010)

how far apart is everyone running their buckets? 

i'm going to the full aqua flakes line as following the schedule to the T this rip. adding in Great White as well. i'm going to mix up a gallon at each formula change and check the EC before i mix my whole batch as i may want to cut it slightly to keep the ppm's in a acceptable range as i hear this line runs hot.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 16, 2010)

Str8Dank said:


> how far apart is everyone running their buckets?


I just ran a cycle. I spaced them 1 pot per 4 sqft (2ft apart). I'm starting a new cycle, and I'll bunch them a little tighter this time. This time will be 1 pot per 2&#8532; sqft (1½ ft apart).

Last time I vegged for 5 weeks (under 1000w MH) in the pots, this time I'll switch after 3 weeks. At least, that's the plan.


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## patlpp (Mar 16, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> QUOTE=Str8Dank;3912322]how far apart is everyone running their buckets?


I just ran a cycle. I spaced them 1 pot per 4 sqft (2ft apart). I'm starting a new cycle, and I'll bunch them a little tighter this time. This time will be 1 pot per 2&#8532; sqft (1½ ft apart).

Last time I vegged for 5 weeks (under 1000w MH) in the pots, this time I'll switch after 3 weeks. At least, that's the plan.[/QUOTE]

Why shorter veg time? Your last grow was excellent. What nute schedule were you on again?


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## smokingrubber (Mar 16, 2010)

patlpp said:


> Why shorter veg time? Your last grow was excellent. What nute schedule were you on again?


My last grow finished at, or a little beyond, the height limit in my tent. I had to bend over a couple tall stalks in the last couple weeks. Next time, I would prefer to have shorter plants ... less burn, less stress (on the grower too). If they're shorter and a little less bushy, then I will easily fit another 4 plants in there.

I'm on General Hydroponic's full recipe. http://www.generalhydroponics.com/calculator/index.html


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## DMG3528 (Mar 16, 2010)

I really love this system. I have tried several systems and found the E&G is the most reliable, dependable, trustworthy system on the market. 
I have used flood table's to veg and moved them into the buckets when I was ready to flower them. 
Worked flawlessly. 
Now as I type this I am running 3 individual systems. Beans go from a seedling tray directly into the buckets. Veg until I like and switch over to flower.
Nothing special like spacers or anything. I have ran as many as 20 buckets per res. I like 10 best.
I have had problems with roots filling the feed tubes. As for problems that is the only one I have had with this system. 
I use hydroton exclusivly. 
Technaflora-BC line for the nutes. 
Simple is better. IMHO.


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## boxing119 (Mar 16, 2010)

http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=4490 . it says there's a new version out of the ebb and grow and the upped the price 30, anyone know the differences that they made to the system?


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 17, 2010)

what they mean by new version is the old one used white buckets and a blue resivoir


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## bobsgreen (Mar 17, 2010)

check it out..best price I found..anyone seen a better deal?

http://www.thegardendepotinc.com/709.html


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## shnkrmn (Mar 17, 2010)

bobsgreen said:


> check it out..best price I found..anyone seen a better deal?
> 
> http://www.thegardendepotinc.com/709.html


You can't add anything to your shopping cart at this website (I wanted to see how much shipping was) and the site owner's cell phone number is listed on the top of the page. Pretty shady if you ask me All the prices are unbelievably low.


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## bobsgreen (Mar 17, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> You can't add anything to your shopping cart at this website (I wanted to see how much shipping was) and the site owner's cell phone number is listed on the top of the page. Pretty shady if you ask me All the prices are unbelievably low.


Yea the websites hella shitty..I can vouch for the store though..not affiliated but I am a loyal customer..they're just a small business in the middle of nowhere that gets by by givin such good deals..the owners a cool guy and he gives some good ass deals..I can't speak for their shipping as I normally just make the commute to the shop, but I'm sure they'll work with you..they got a shit ton of stuff thats not even on their website


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## smokingrubber (Mar 17, 2010)

Ebay has them for $445. With free shipping and no tax.
http://cgi.ebay.com/EBB-GRO-AND-GROW-N-FLOW-12-SITE-HYDROPONIC-SYSTEM-A_W0QQitemZ190378221944QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c536d2178


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## KushcreationsZ (Mar 17, 2010)

hi i have a question i saw this system somewhere and i'm trying to find out how to make it its made from 3'x2' tubs at lowes. Ive seen a bunch on making them one tray and one res my question is how do you split it so that one pump pumps 2 trays? thanks.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 17, 2010)

KushcreationsZ said:


> hi i have a question i saw this system somewhere and i'm trying to find out how to make it its made from 3'x2' tubs at lowes. Ive seen a bunch on making them one tray and one res my question is how do you split it so that one pump pumps 2 trays? thanks.


Simple... you don't. You buy two seperate pumps & two timers. Then you can stagger the fills. I did that same setup on my first grow, except I used 3 trays (and 3 pumps). Be sure to use a digital timer so that you can time the fill precisely. If you fill too long, the trays can easily overflow unless you use a massive top-drain.


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## boxing119 (Mar 17, 2010)

bobsgreen said:


> Yea the websites hella shitty..I can vouch for the store though..not affiliated but I am a loyal customer..they're just a small business in the middle of nowhere that gets by by givin such good deals..the owners a cool guy and he gives some good ass deals..I can't speak for their shipping as I normally just make the commute to the shop, but I'm sure they'll work with you..they got a shit ton of stuff thats not even on their website




whats the website?


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## bobsgreen (Mar 17, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> whats the website?


http://thegardendepotinc.com/index.html


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## Yota (Mar 19, 2010)

Great thread, but i cant look through 62 pages for my answer lol. What mediums do people recommend. Do i have to use hydrotron? What about rockwool cubes?


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## smokingrubber (Mar 19, 2010)

Yota said:


> Great thread, but i cant look through 62 pages for my answer lol. What mediums do people recommend. Do i have to use hydrotron? What about rockwool cubes?


I start with rockwool cubes. First the 1" till the roots are popping out, then the 4" till the roots pop out. Then I fill half the pot with clean hydroton, place the rw baby in the center and fill in the rest with hydroton. Viola.


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## dtp5150 (Mar 19, 2010)

yes you will need hydroton and a bunch of it

i use the method like above but skip the 2nd rockwool cube


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## boxing119 (Mar 19, 2010)

hey guys just ordered another ebb and gro, planning on running 24 pots on the 55 gal rez, is that to many pots? i dont mind adding to the rez often, this system doesnt require to much labor as is and dont think it would be the biggest deal to top off the rez a little more often, please let me know what u think


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## boxing119 (Mar 19, 2010)

also planning on running 4x1000w lights for the 24.pots does that sound about right?


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 20, 2010)

yea man go for it, just remember summer is almost here and 4k worth of light is a ton of heat, i run 3600w, air cooled hoods and need a 12,ooo btu a/c


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## boxing119 (Mar 20, 2010)

yeah i ordered a 12,000 btu portable a/c. my basement seems to be pretty cool so im hoping all works out well. whats your eletric bill running with ur 3600, watts?


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 20, 2010)

rates vary across the country, it cost about 70$ a month per 1k of light


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## bonkbonk (Mar 20, 2010)

I have my ebb n grow all set up and ready to go. (I did end up locating the vacuum release elbow, so thanks for the help.)

I have a new problem, however. I'm basically running three rows of three buckets attached to three of the outlets. The other three outlets have end caps. Two of the three rows fill up just fine, but one row doesn't fill up past the one inch mark. Any ideas?

I checked for kinks (none) and checked the tube to ensure there weren't any blockages. all the buckets are set up at the same level and the row that doesn't fill up is actually the first row of the three, so it's not a pump pressure issue. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Many thanks.


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## dtp5150 (Mar 20, 2010)

it fills up, stalls, fills up, stalls, and continues for a few minutes


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## patlpp (Mar 20, 2010)

bonkbonk said:


> I have my ebb n grow all set up and ready to go. (I did end up locating the vacuum release elbow, so thanks for the help.)
> 
> I have a new problem, however. I'm basically running three rows of three buckets attached to three of the outlets. The other three outlets have end caps. Two of the three rows fill up just fine, but one row doesn't fill up past the one inch mark. Any ideas?
> 
> ...


You gotta have a blockage. What happens when you take the tube from the bucket end an blow into it. Do that , maybe theres something inside the tubing. Than check the first plastic fitting , maybe it;s blocked


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## patlpp (Mar 20, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> it fills up, stalls, fills up, stalls, and continues for a few minutes


This is normal.


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## dtp5150 (Mar 20, 2010)

i'm really liking my system...got 4 buckets to 3 spouts....so 12 total.

just one 400 watt hps flowering all of them but more are to be added soon.

i got an expansion kit too and its a good set.

my plants were looking droopy so i watered 5 times per day instead of 4 and they look better. i am guessing that a nutrient deficiency can be battled with more frequent fillings? So, thats a tip to add more nutes...maybe...makes sense to me at least. It was also hot so that could have been it

I am trying not to add too much water to to the reservoir so that if the fill switch fails it wont be a HUGE flood, but I really should add another one.


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## doniawon (Mar 21, 2010)

Do any of you insulate your 55 gallon resi's? .. any suggestions?


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 21, 2010)

yea, i wrap a 1/3 HP chiller around my rez =)


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## doniawon (Mar 21, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> yea, i wrap a 1/3 HP chiller around my rez =)


 haha... ha.. thats an expensive piece of styrofoam


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## dtp5150 (Mar 22, 2010)

my res stays cold....


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## doniawon (Mar 22, 2010)

insulated 55 with built in drain spigots would be bomber.. also predrilled holes in top of buckets for lst. im gonna make my own, and put CAP out.


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## dieselhound (Mar 22, 2010)

pluto420 said:


> Yeah I am done with my stg experiment in this system. But with the rocks it is great.
> 
> If you want to do a good cleaning or rearrange the buckets how do you go about getting the water out of the controller bucket, lines, and outer buckets without getting water everywhere?


 
Nice thread. I've been running the E & G system for a couple of years now and love it. I am currently running Casey Jones and Blue Dream. The Casey cola's are like baseball bats. I'll post some pics of my system if anyone is interested.

The way I flush is by installing 2 in-line valves between buckets. These valves are lower than the buckets and controller and therefore will drain the system fairly well. When I flush I drain to waste. Hook up the valves to my drain outside and done. I've finally got the cleaning part of this system down and it takes approx. 30 min. for the flush. The final cleaning of the system is much more invloved and thankfully only need to do it once a run.

One thing I like about the system is the fact that running strains w/ different finishing times isn't a problem. I've got one strain (First Lady) that is almost done at 7.5 wks. I disconnected that bucket form the system and began hand flushing this week. 

DH


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## cooley150 (Mar 22, 2010)

Could some one PLEASE explain to me in VERY SIMPLE terms.... WHAT is PPM ? I know it stands for parts per million, but What exactly is it and how does it work. The same question for TDS.... I know how to set my PH, but what I don't understand is how you do the whole PPM measuring thing with the water and the nutes. Would Plain tap water have a PPM of 0? Does 5 gallons of water have more PPM then 40 gallons? Does PH change PPM? Could some one PLEASE break this whole measuring thing down for me. I know it's important when using the Lucas Formula and that is what I am using in a 24 pot Ebb & Gro. 1000 watt MH. Thank you for you time.


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## doniawon (Mar 22, 2010)

the three ways salt in water are read through the electrode in your meter. ppm you know that. tds total dissolved solids, all measured through ec(electrical conductivity). 
I use the ppm cause it easier to guage imop... furthermo, ppm are parts per million salts in your res> nutrients etc. and no tap usually has a ppm of 250 to 550 depending. (on luck mostly) ph also. but the ppm in a cup will register close to a 30 gallon tub full, a 5 gallon will read close to that of a 40 gal. the source deters the starting ppm's, then the nutes are added.. im drunk hope this makes sense..


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## patlpp (Mar 22, 2010)

cooley150 said:


> Could some one PLEASE explain to me in VERY SIMPLE terms.... WHAT is PPM ? I know it stands for parts per million, but What exactly is it and how does it work. The same question for TDS.... I know how to set my PH, but what I don't understand is how you do the whole PPM measuring thing with the water and the nutes. Would Plain tap water have a PPM of 0? Does 5 gallons of water have more PPM then 40 gallons? Does PH change PPM? Could some one PLEASE break this whole measuring thing down for me. I know it's important when using the Lucas Formula and that is what I am using in a 24 pot Ebb & Gro. 1000 watt MH. Thank you for you time.


It's quite a lot your asking. go to : https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=category&id=51

This in the FAQ area. Read up than ask again if needed.


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## mofizzle415 (Mar 22, 2010)

Quick question...I just got my Cap E & G a few weeks ago.... It doesnt drain until I unplug the pump in the resi which is connected to a power strip....Do I have it connected wrong ? I think maybe the pump in the rezi should be connected to the controller ? can someone please help.....I currently have the pump in the controller bucket connected to the controller....or do I have to connect the pump in the rezi to a seperate timer and set it to turn off when the controller starts draining...seems like it should do that w/o a seperate timer....


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## cooley150 (Mar 22, 2010)

mofizzle415 said:


> Quick question...I just got my Cap E & G a few weeks ago.... It doesnt drain until I unplug the pump in the resi which is connected to a power strip....Do I have it connected wrong ? I think maybe the pump in the rezi should be connected to the controller ? can someone please help.....I currently have the pump in the controller bucket connected to the controller....or do I have to connect the pump in the rezi to a seperate timer and set it to turn off when the controller starts draining...seems like it should do that w/o a seperate timer....




YES!!!! On the side of you control bucket it has 2 plugs...one says fill pump and the other says drain pump. that is where the 2 pumps plug in.


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## cooley150 (Mar 22, 2010)

doniawon said:


> the three ways salt in water are read through the electrode in your meter. ppm you know that. tds total dissolved solids, all measured through ec(electrical conductivity).
> I use the ppm cause it easier to guage imop... furthermo, ppm are parts per million salts in your res> nutrients etc. and no tap usually has a ppm of 250 to 550 depending. (on luck mostly) ph also. but the ppm in a cup will register close to a 30 gallon tub full, a 5 gallon will read close to that of a 40 gal. the source deters the starting ppm's, then the nutes are added.. im drunk hope this makes sense..



Thank you doniawon... That does explain it to me a little better. You did a great job for being DUNK!!! LOL!!!


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## cooley150 (Mar 22, 2010)

patlpp said:


> It's quite a lot your asking. go to : https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=category&id=51
> 
> This in the FAQ area. Read up than ask again if needed.



lol...Yes I know... sorry. Thanks for the link.


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## patlpp (Mar 22, 2010)

mofizzle415 said:


> Quick question...I just got my Cap E & G a few weeks ago.... It doesnt drain until I unplug the pump in the resi which is connected to a power strip....Do I have it connected wrong ? I think maybe the pump in the rezi should be connected to the controller ? can someone please help.....I currently have the pump in the controller bucket connected to the controller....or do I have to connect the pump in the rezi to a seperate timer and set it to turn off when the controller starts draining...seems like it should do that w/o a seperate timer....


The resi pump must be connected to the controller ac labeled "fill pump" and the controller pump ac connected to the "Drain Pump" No separate timer.


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## mofizzle415 (Mar 22, 2010)

"YES!!!! On the side of you control bucket it has 2 plugs...one says fill pump and the other says drain pump. that is where the 2 pumps plug in."......dude im a frikken tard lmao.....I cant believe I didnt see it....Thank you.....Thank You...Thank you.... + Rep brotha...Im almost embarassed...cant believe I missed it..holy fuck....


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## mofizzle415 (Mar 22, 2010)

Thanks patlpp...+ rep as well...Thank you....Now when I go on vacation in a couple months...I can rest assured the system will run by itself for 18 days... I knew something wasnt right lol...


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## patlpp (Mar 22, 2010)

mofizzle415 said:


> Thanks patlpp...+ rep as well...Thank you....Now when I go on vacation in a couple months...I can rest assured the system will run by itself for 18 days... I knew something wasnt right lol...



LOL Thats alright,all you can do is laugh about it. 
One more critical thing: make sure you use that elbow with the silver tape on your resi connection on the lid where the tube connects to the pump. It has a hole in it to break any possible siphon !! 18 days is a loooong time. I don't know....... depends on how many buckets your using.


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## the tramp (Mar 23, 2010)

well i was happy to find this thread as i recently picked one of these systems. i'm growing 12 bbc under 2 600w hps cool tubes in my homeboxxl. i learned alot here to make setting the system relatively painfree. at least until today. just finished running through a few cycles after adding my nutes and balancing the ph. went to check on my three week old babies when i see the unthinkable. my freakin dog thought it was a good thing to pull eight plants and rip apart the rockwool!! good thing i germinated 20 of them and actually might have saved a few of the victims. so what was supposed to be a joyous transplanting ceremony turned out be a masacre.
regardless of my misfortune, this system seems great. i should have some nice picks in a few weeks.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 23, 2010)

lol. Nice first post.



the tramp said:


> well i was happy to find this thread as i recently picked one of these systems. i'm growing 12 bbc under 2 600w hps cool tubes in my homeboxxl. i learned alot here to make setting the system relatively painfree. at least until today. just finished running through a few cycles after adding my nutes and balancing the ph. went to check on my three week old babies when i see the unthinkable. my freakin dog thought it was a good thing to pull eight plants and rip apart the rockwool!! good thing i germinated 20 of them and actually might have saved a few of the victims. so what was supposed to be a joyous transplanting ceremony turned out be a masacre.
> regardless of my misfortune, this system seems great. i should have some nice picks in a few weeks.


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## dtp5150 (Mar 23, 2010)

ph your rez to like 5 before you go on vacation...18 days is long.....


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 23, 2010)

18 days? go to home depot and pick up a float valve and rig up an auto fill for the res, the bare minimum to maintain in your res should be atleast 20 gal, only to atleast keep the pump in the res submerged during a flood cycle. with very young plants i would say you got 7 days before your PH goes bonkers and if you keep a high PH for a week let alone 13 days your plants will be retarded when you get back. you might be better off waiting till you get back, noone should be away from the grow for that long unless you have a friend


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## boxing119 (Mar 24, 2010)

my plants seem like they have kinda quit growing taller, the have been in flower now for 6 weeks and they are about 3 1/2 feet tall they look great, but they still seem really short is it just the system that grows small bushy plants or is it just the strain i have, any tips on how to make them get a little taller?


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## dieselhound (Mar 24, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> my plants seem like they have kinda quit growing taller, the have been in flower now for 6 weeks and they are about 3 1/2 feet tall they look great, but they still seem really short is it just the system that grows small bushy plants or is it just the strain i have, any tips on how to make them get a little taller?


 
Strain! Plants usually stop stretching at weeks 3-4.

Party on and enjoy your crop bro!


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## boxing119 (Mar 25, 2010)

My leaves i think got a little nute burn the edges of the leaves are turnning really yellow and working from the edge of the leaf in, im on week 7 of flower and have the ppm at around 1300 PH aroun 5.7 and water temp around 62? what cause that type of burn? any suggestions?


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## KILLERhydro (Mar 25, 2010)

I have a question ? is it okay to cut the roots that are hanging out of the bucket insert? will it harm them? o have the bucket raised on inch and they still are hanging down in the still water in the bottom of the buckets!


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## Quemado (Mar 25, 2010)

How long do you guys usually veg for. I'm coming up on week three and most are looking really good. I have 2 that are runts but they have roots coming out of the bottom of the buckets. They are about 5-6 inches/ 5 nodes the others are almost a foot tall and just blowing up fast. I'm using BC nutes at half strength with Vermi T. Should I bump up my nutes? My larger plants are starting to slightly yellow on the lower leaves. If I do bump up the nutes will they burn the runts? Strain is Chem4 560 ppm, [email protected] They are fed three times a day.


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 25, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> My leaves i think got a little nute burn the edges of the leaves are turnning really yellow and working from the edge of the leaf in, im on week 7 of flower and have the ppm at around 1300 PH aroun 5.7 and water temp around 62? what cause that type of burn? any suggestions?


pix are worth 1000 words, is it a straight yellowing or the leaves have crispy burnt tips that crumble? all your #'s look great, it could be strain specific issue like the plants you have prefer lesser nute strength, for this reason its better to run only one strain, but this could be a nitrogen def. how long does the strain take to finish? either way it sound like you got a indica dominant plant and she most likely less than 3 weeks from being finished, at this point to hell with it, my motto is your all good if you can get into flower in one piece


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 25, 2010)

KILLERhydro said:


> I have a question ? is it okay to cut the roots that are hanging out of the bucket insert? will it harm them? o have the bucket raised on inch and they still are hanging down in the still water in the bottom of the buckets!


ya know i used to champion the raising of the buckets, into my last run the roots grew deep into the hoses and jammed a whole row a plants greatly diminishing yield late in flower, the first time i ran the system i had no roots grow out the bottom, dont know why and i knew everytime i seen thi s system used there wat massive roots in that water, that still water isnt bad at all, just flush every month so salts dont build up down there. lets say that water didnt get changed for days and just sat in a warm bucket, then its a problem, if yoou flood once a day it woulld be enough for that water to be fresh i would say let her be, i have read a few places that the main body of a root system is for nutrient uptake, the lower portion of a root system is for water uptake, dont know how true but i dont think its worth the stress you put on your plants, let em be


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 25, 2010)

Quemado said:


> How long do you guys usually veg for. I'm coming up on week three and most are looking really good. I have 2 that are runts but they have roots coming out of the bottom of the buckets. They are about 5-6 inches/ 5 nodes the others are almost a foot tall and just blowing up fast. I'm using BC nutes at half strength with Vermi T. Should I bump up my nutes? My larger plants are starting to slightly yellow on the lower leaves. If I do bump up the nutes will they burn the runts? Strain is Chem4 560 ppm, [email protected] They are fed three times a day.


the runts are going to have to take one for the team, ya know the greater good, but just go easy when bumping up chem nutes, a little too much will fuck you up bro. also hows the ppms running?if they stay even or go down then you should give it a bump, plus all signs say the plants are asking for more food. i like to veg for 4 weeks, but if you have a sativa that likes to stretch you might start flower after 5 days of x-plant. weeks 2-4 of veg in this system is where all the action is, major growth rates, first week is not much growth, you may want to also consider feeding more often, i give youngings the first week 15min floods every 4 hours 24hours a day, once i see rapid growth into 2 weeks we go every 3 hours floods for 15min, the next stage would be floods every 3 hours for 30mins because 21 days in this sytem you should have bushes and they will consume much more water now because of the longer day, you will notive during flower you will have to top off less


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## boxing119 (Mar 25, 2010)

im running 6 trainwreck, i read the flower time on thos was 14 weeks? i also have 3 PeZ going and those seem to be on the same pace as the train wreck, also 2 sour disel and one maui, they all look like they still have awhile although some of the hairs are already turning a red/brown, the buds and leaves are COVERD in crystals, all over the place they look and smell good they just seem to need a while longer, i will try to post a pic of the burn problem so you can take a look


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## boxing119 (Mar 25, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> im running 6 trainwreck, i read the flower time on thos was 14 weeks? i also have 3 PeZ going and those seem to be on the same pace as the train wreck, also 2 sour disel and one maui, they all look like they still have awhile although some of the hairs are already turning a red/brown, the buds and leaves are COVERD in crystals, all over the place they look and smell good they just seem to need a while longer, i will try to post a pic of the burn problem so you can take a look


 heres a pic of the deficient leaves


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 25, 2010)

looks like very simple magnesium def. you know its nitrogen when the whole leafe viens and all, when you see it between the viens its clearly mag. i would like to tell you that plants such as these reqiure tons of mag, what nutrients do you use boxing? even before i ran botanicare's line, i always had their cal-mag plus in my arsenal only because N cal,mag are the easiest minerals to go deficient. i have very good tap water under 40ppm, therefore its a must that i supplement with atleast half strength cal/mag (5ml/gal) i suggest you do this too is using Reverse osmosis units or good tap water. other than that your leaves look super strong and extremly healthy


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## boxing119 (Mar 26, 2010)

Thanks so much for your help, i too seem to have pretty clean tap water around 65 ppm, i will stop and pick up come cal-Mag today and see how that works. thanks for the info. I am running the lucas formula 8ml/Ga- micro 16ml/Ga- bloom, plus a little KoolBloom and Hygrozyme.


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 26, 2010)

you will see how your nute collection expands, i found that hygrozyme, cal-mag, and azatrol are must haves, the azatrol is for systemic bug control, bugs munch on your plants, they starve, cant reproduce and get paralyzed ($70 per 500ml)


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## boxing119 (Mar 26, 2010)

do you add the azatrol to the rez or is it a foiler feed type nute? and if im already in my 7 week of flower do you think there is still a chance of pest?


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## boxing119 (Mar 26, 2010)

hey guys i got a retarded question but i just got my carbon filter in, and do i have it set up do the fan sucks the air through the filter of so the air blows through the filter. thanks guys


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## patlpp (Mar 26, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> hey guys i got a retarded question but i just got my carbon filter in, and do i have it set up do the fan sucks the air through the filter of so the air blows through the filter. thanks guys


It usually is designed for sucky sucky . The coarse filter filters the big crap than enters the filter and than out the center. What type filter and fan?


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## boxing119 (Mar 26, 2010)

its a 6" hydrofarm fan rated at like 430 cfm, and its a 6" Carbonaire filter.


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## patlpp (Mar 26, 2010)

Reason I asked is that I bought a cheapie that was only like 1/2 in thick of carbon. So, I hooked my fan up to it and it got most but not all of the smell. What happened was I was pushing the air too fast through the filter, not giving the charcoal enough time. What I finally had top do is run it slow, like 100 or so cfm and exhaust the filtered air in the same area (scrubbed) Works fine. I just wanted to warn you that you can't fun your fan full blast, gotta give the smell time to get caught in the carbon. Big time filters like the CANs are like 3" thick so no problem.


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## boxing119 (Mar 26, 2010)

is it okay to leave the filter out of the tent? my tent is packed with plants and there is no way it could fit.


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## patlpp (Mar 26, 2010)

How are you going to filter than? You will need to place the filter in the tent up high maybe? If you can't , you will need to construct a chamber where you duct the air from the tent to the chamber with the filter in it (think of a big trash can with the filter in it). Air in the chamber goes through the filter, out to the fan (sucking). Or, some people will duct the air from the tent directly to the filter that is placed outside, than ducted to the motor. (sucking) Not exactly what the filter was designed for but works.


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## doogleef (Mar 27, 2010)

I used the Lucas Formula for a long time and always had the same N deff during stretch. It's too low in N for good growth IMHO. The one thing the Lucas has plenty of is Mg. 2% Mg is a lot higher than a lot of other things. Cal-Mag has a secret ingredient that really helps plants like this out, Nitrogen. (2-0-0)  Bump up the micro and watch the yellow stop.


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## doogleef (Mar 27, 2010)

My fan and filter are both in the attic. No need for it to be in the tent. Just hook up the vents inline and go.


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## patlpp (Mar 27, 2010)

patlpp said:


> Or, some people will duct the air from the tent directly to the filter that is placed outside, than ducted to the motor. (sucking) Not exactly what the filter was designed for but works.





doogleef said:


> My fan and filter are both in the attic. No need for it to be in the tent. Just hook up the vents inline and go.


Same as what I said. Dude doesn't have an _inline_ carbon filter but it will still work, but not exactly as intended in the design of the filter


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## doogleef (Mar 27, 2010)

The filter goes on the end of the line. Blow, don't suck. 

[ |--Light--|---] ----------------|Fan|----|Filter|

Tent^ Airflow --->


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## patlpp (Mar 27, 2010)

doogleef said:


> The filter goes on the end of the line. Blow, don't suck.
> 
> [ |--Light--|---] ----------------|Fan|----|Filter|
> 
> Tent^ Airflow --->


oh I gotchya my bad. There isn't any other way to connect to the filter other than the way you shown in the attic. Thanks, 
I hear some people will stick the prefilter in the ducting of the filter when used this way.


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 27, 2010)

doogleef said:


> I used the Lucas Formula for a long time and always had the same N deff during stretch. It's too low in N for good growth IMHO. The one thing the Lucas has plenty of is Mg. 2% Mg is a lot higher than a lot of other things. Cal-Mag has a secret ingredient that really helps plants like this out, Nitrogen. (2-0-0)  Bump up the micro and watch the yellow stop.


dead on bro, that cal-mag allows you to run your bloom nutes the day you flip to 12/12, many makes this mistake and it causes premature yellowing. one thing i have to say is that plants depending on strain absorbe tons of mag, my recipe calls for the mag in my veg/bloom nutes, cal-mag and still i run sweet which has sulfur and more mag, and many times it takes all that to avoid the mag


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## boxing119 (Mar 27, 2010)

how much cal-mag would you recommend to use in the rez with the lucas formula? ML-Ga ratio?


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## patlpp (Mar 27, 2010)

doogleef said:


> I used the Lucas Formula for a long time and always had the same N deff during stretch. It's too low in N for good growth IMHO. The one thing the Lucas has plenty of is Mg. 2% Mg is a lot higher than a lot of other things. Cal-Mag has a secret ingredient that really helps plants like this out, Nitrogen. (2-0-0)  Bump up the micro and watch the yellow stop.





boxing119 said:


> how much cal-mag would you recommend to use in the rez with the lucas formula? ML-Ga ratio?


I think what he meant was that Lucas has plenty of MAG and that the true effect of cal-mag in this situation is that it is supplying the much needed Nitrogen (2-0-0) so the recommendation is to just increase your GH micro a bit. It is 5-0-1. Loaded with N and Cal. Is that right?


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## Quemado (Mar 27, 2010)

I need to veg for one more week. Today is two weeks since the last rez flush. Would it be ok if I let ride one week without a change???


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 27, 2010)

cousin morris doesnt like lucas formula, boxing do you notice this issue with one particular strain or is it all your plants?


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## mofizzle415 (Mar 27, 2010)

I am surprised no one has posted any pics....this was a few weeks ago....start of flowering cycle...


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## mofizzle415 (Mar 28, 2010)

Latest shots.....


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## doogleef (Mar 28, 2010)

patlpp said:


> I think what he meant was that Lucas has plenty of MAG and that the true effect of cal-mag in this situation is that it is supplying the much needed Nitrogen (2-0-0) so the recommendation is to just increase your GH micro a bit. It is 5-0-1. Loaded with N and Cal. Is that right?


Correct. . Nitrogen is not the enemy, contrary to the paradigm. 

Mg is essential because it is required for Nitrogen uptake. Mg def plants display slight N def (yellowing at margins) even though the N is available because the plant cant process it without Mg.

That said, many times over I see people adding Mg when all they really need is a N boost. In my experience, N def is much more common than Mg def. Like I mentioned above the plant reacts in the same way to both deficiencies so determining which one it is can be a challenge. The advantage cal-mag has is it gives both. The PBP line rubs me wrong though because the base line has NO mg in it forcing you to purchase their additive. Grr. 

You can mix a great soup with most any 3-part nute. No additives needed. GH, AN, whatever. You just have to toss the "feeding schedule" out the damn window and feed a 3-1-2 blend in veg and a 1-3-2 blend in bloom after stretch. I use a 1/2 bloom, 1/2 veg mix for wks 2-3 of bloom but that's just because I happen to dump on that schedule and it is an easy blend. If you are looking for an easy 1-part mix, dynagro rocks.


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## mrduke (Mar 28, 2010)

mofizzle whats that extra ring that goes around the top of your buckets? is that an old cap design, or home made


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## mofizzle415 (Mar 28, 2010)

whats up Mr Duke... I originally bought thouse to fit perfectly over a 5 gallon buckets...When i began to do more research I saw that the Ebb & Grow systems out there were using 2 gallon buckets... I kept em and its worked out perfectly so far... they leave a nice gap a little less than an inch and a half.....enough for a nice root mass to develop and dangle.....the rings also make it easy to lift the plant out if need be...... The only thing I purchased was the Controller....55 Gal drum craigslist 25 bones... buckets...(2 gal home depot) clamps, hose, etc.. hydro store...


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## the tramp (Mar 28, 2010)

Having trouble getting this unit to drain. I don't think it's an airlock issue, as the drain pump doesn't even turn on automatically. When I tap one of the floats (the highest one of the two at the bottom of the controller), it turns on and drains. Any suggestions?


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## mofizzle415 (Mar 28, 2010)

there both plugged into the controller right ? ( made that mistake myself)...I dont know why else it would not pump back out...does your elbow have the hole pointing down ? on the rezi ?...and or is it clogged ?.. it has to be plugged in right though cause your saying that it does turn on after you touch it... it sounds like your sensor is faulty no ?? i'd give it a nice but gently cleaning..im stumped...sorry brotha


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## the tramp (Mar 28, 2010)

Yeah, they're plugged into the controller and the hole on the elbow is pointing down in the rez. Fill cycle works fine, but the drain pump does not switch on automatically once the drain cycle begins. I have to physically touch/move the sensor/float a bit, and then the drain pump turns on. I'm thinking the float isn't floating properly to turn on the sensor, as the sensor and the pump obviously work fine at some point, it must be mechanical. Maybe lifting my buckets will help??


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## WaterDog (Mar 28, 2010)

I'll admit I'm a dumbass, anyone else drop everything in the 55 gallon drum, So far mixing cups, both testers and tonite my damn cellphone. lol.. Bet you could start a whole thread, I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I was thinking of buying a couple expansions to veg in then go straight to flower without transplanting, anyone else doing this? Is there a cheaper/ better way, seems easy enough except the cost of the expansions which seem a little pricey. Thanks alot


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## mofizzle415 (Mar 28, 2010)

Hey whats up WaterDog..lol..cant say that ive dropped anything in there yet..but im sure just cause i said that I will now.... The only problem I see with that is space...But if you got the space...hell why not i guess...I personally dont see it as being that cumbersome plus..I like to throw a plant in betwwen in each bucket..in pots.....


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## Str8Dank (Mar 28, 2010)

WaterDog said:


> I'll admit I'm a dumbass, anyone else drop everything in the 55 gallon drum, So far mixing cups, both testers and tonite my damn cellphone. lol.. Bet you could start a whole thread, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
> 
> I was thinking of buying a couple expansions to veg in then go straight to flower without transplanting, anyone else doing this? Is there a cheaper/ better way, seems easy enough except the cost of the expansions which seem a little pricey. Thanks alot


let me list the things....


spray bottles
screw drivers
ph tester
scissors (reg)
scissors (fiskers)
paint mixing cups
measuring needles
screws
i'm sure there is more. the issue is i need more shelf space and that lid is just sitting there all pretty and white waiting for someone like me to place something on it while working lol


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## Str8Dank (Mar 28, 2010)

hey people running the E&G that had issues with the brain not switching cycles how did you fix this??????

i setup my system to go on and off every 15 min 24/7 for a few days when i dumped about a quart of 35% h2o2 into about 15 gal in the res to clean the pipes between runs and i noticed the last few days it's getting stuck and not draining! i'd rather have it not fill then forget to drain that shit is dangerous. i'm only one run in so i hope i can get it replaced or something it should have a warranty i would think.


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## mrduke (Mar 29, 2010)

why are you running it 15 on 15 off?????


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## patlpp (Mar 29, 2010)

Str8Dank said:


> hey people running the E&G that had issues with the brain not switching cycles how did you fix this??????
> 
> i setup my system to go on and off every 15 min 24/7 for a few days when i dumped about a quart of 35% h2o2 into about 15 gal in the res to clean the pipes between runs and i noticed the last few days it's getting stuck and not draining! i'd rather have it not fill then forget to drain that shit is dangerous. i'm only one run in so i hope i can get it replaced or something it should have a warranty i would think.


Call R&M supply and get it swapped out. Don't dick with it if it's new. Just call them and explain. You will have to send yours in first. They will pay shipping both ways


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## the tramp (Mar 29, 2010)

Well, I finally tinkered with the sensor/float long enough that I think I solved the non-draining problem. The controller has two floats towards the bottom. The one towards the front of the controller is supposed to be at an angle, the other one which is slightly higher needs to be perfectly straight. Both CAP and my local hydro shop helped me out big time. I finally just got a level and made sure everything was perfectly level and straightened out the float. Drained as it was supposed to. Don't think the issue will come up again, even if it goes crooked again, as I purchased an a/c unit to control my heat problem and have it sitting on top of my controller. The minor vibration of the a/c unit should be enough to vibrate the sensor if need be.
With the heat and drain problems fixed, my plants are starting to love this system. Amazingly quick growth in just two days of running the system properly, although a bit fat and stubby (might be the BBC strain, idk). I'm running Lucas Formula (just FLB), so I'll probably be topping off the rez with a bit extra N (probably FLM). Sigh....although everything is running fine now, I hate the stress of things going wrong. Had my dog not massacred my younglings, I would've had the time to fully setup and test the system BEFORE transplanting. Always something.


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## desch (Mar 29, 2010)

www.horticulturesource.com has the Sentinel Ebb & Flow system which is scheduled to be delivered on April 21, 2010. Ive already placed my order and cant wait to receive it.

http://www.horticulturesource.com/sentinel-sentinel-modular-ebb-flow-growing-system-mef-1-p7755/?osCsid=f9ce12c78ff71576b48e75f64e63691e


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 30, 2010)

dude i dont think you should keep electrical equipment near your controller, i heard of floats failing because they are megnetic and metals and electronics near by is no good. just sayin i heard this


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## the tramp (Mar 30, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> dude i dont think you should keep electrical equipment near your controller, i heard of floats failing because they are megnetic and metals and electronics near by is no good. just sayin i heard this


The a/c is mostly plastic, but I'll keep an eye on it. It's running great so far.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 30, 2010)

speaking of electronic interference. I have a hanna grochek ph/tds/temp continuous readout meter. The tds and temp probes are seriously interfered with by electrical fields. When I had the meter itself mounted fairly near a 600 watt ballast, the readings were widely swinging in a matter of seconds and the temp read consistently 12 or 15 degrees more than it could possibly be. I've observed the same effect in a res where I have a continuously running pump. The magnetic field surrounding a mag-drive pump is enough to seriously warp readings from your meters. Unplug the pumps, or relocate your probes, as this can cause serious errors in nuting your plants.

Just sharing


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 30, 2010)

the tramp said:


> The a/c is mostly plastic, but I'll keep an eye on it. It's running great so far.


how do you figure? if i am not mistaken you have a compressor that is made of metal and a condensor thats like a radiator, unless your housing is plastic i dont see how this is possible.


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## boxing119 (Mar 30, 2010)

So i just got my new ebb and gro set up with 24 buckets, right out of the box two buckets are cracked and i need to replace does anyone know if home depot or lowes carries buckets that fit into this system?

Also shnkrmn: i read about the exact same thing on another thread on here were he had to hide his meter behind the Mylar in his grow room. i deffenitlay think it is an odd thing.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/316440-kittys-6000-watt-ebb-flo.html


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## dtp5150 (Mar 30, 2010)

sucks about the buckets. There is some kind of warranty so they shoudl send you those. Also, it takes a bit to get setup so you'll probably not need those 2 buckets anyways. Also on ebay there is someone selling an upgraded version of the buckets in a set of 6 that have more quality plastic.


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## thelotuseed (Mar 30, 2010)

Hello fellow CAP users. 

I am a newb and confused. This is my first grow and i'm 2 weeks into it. 

I'm running 12 buckets under a 1000 MH, 3 feet above plants. I've got two strains here, Mazar and GDP. The GDP is a new addition yet immediatley took on the nutrient burn symptoms as the rest of the plants ( leaf tips burning and yellowing/ stunted growth). Originally i was running the plants at 5ml of each nutrients (using basic GH nutes). After the plants started showing burn i cut it in half then i reduced bloom to .6 ml when they still continued to show burn. I realized that i was waaaaay over watering for the majority of the grow, which i think majorly caused this problem and didnt read the instruction properly. Frankly i'm surprised they're doing as good as they are. I've recently fixed that (3 days ago) and am flooding 4 times only during lights on. I've got 55 gals of rez water. I'm running hard water. I've kept the ph consistently between 5.8-6.2

I believe what i have found my grow in, is the throws of toxic salt build up. That or its a nitrogen deficiency or some type of nute lock out. Maybe all three! Fuck my life.

All the plants are exhibiting droopy ness with claw on most all older and medium growth types. Aswell purple color is occuring on all the top parts of the plant stems. There are two plants (mazars, shiney bright perky bitches in the pics) that seem to be doing alright considering the major amount of stress they've undergone, but exhibit what i think is salt overdose even on the new plant growth. 

Also you can see the bluish white residue powder film on the inner sides of the buckets and on top of the lower leaves.

What say you wise men?? Is this toxic salt build up or nute burn, or deficiency, and if so how do i get it the fuck outta here?? Your advice is indispensable to me at this point. Thank you.


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 31, 2010)

Relax TheLotusSeed, good thing you have friends here. tthis is the reason i hate flora series, but since you have them you should try running the lucas formula, it only requires you use micro and bloom nutes throughout the whole grow cycle, you can scratch the grow from your mix. look at this link its very easy to do
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/4387-lucas-formula.html

as for toxic salt build up no worries bro, most likely the 2 strains you have are taking those nutrients differently, i see one plant is yellow and another dark green, besides it will take more than that for any one of the minerals to become toxic. that powder on the clay pellets is just salt , but the stuff on your leaves does not look kool at all, it may be PM. if i was in your shoes i would first cut back the floods to 3 times during lights on, in a week bump it up to a feeding every 4 hours, a week after that a feed every 3 hours. as i said before i hate GH nutes and not so crazy about Lucas formula, but it looks like Lucas is right up your alley, using anything close to GH's recipe will have plants look exactly like yours do even if you run at lower strength. flush once a month with plain water for 2 days to get rid of all that white residue. get the box of baking soda out of your fridge, mix a tsp (5ml) to a quart of water and spray the plants, if it is powdery mildew then this should hold it in its tracks for now


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## tenbob (Mar 31, 2010)

i have just seen ur pics droopy yellow bottom leaves burnt edges, it loolks like ur too dry try moving a fan directed at ur light lower your newts man and dont and u see over fert eges u llook like ur over watering toomuch im not dissing and trying to help u figure it out,ur in hydro so drop ph to 6 and alter nate to 5.8 to 6.2 as this will help ur roots have a stronger medium to ph ie like fan on moving stem, you willneed to look up osmosis to get a understanding try a quarter nut mix for a couple of drains increasing to about 60% and is u see a pic up hold the dilute mix and read ur plant yellow leaves nute proble, wilt overwater lleaves pulling in too dry so on and so on i hope i can help u ill stick about n try help as much as poss look at my thread i have just made a dual water chamber i need imput too cheers. tenbob


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## tenbob (Mar 31, 2010)

oh yea if ur using folige spray are u rinsing after may explaing salt on leaves ?


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## tenbob (Mar 31, 2010)

sorry bro i jus red u already now about ph n over fet prob so on n so try the quarter sulution stoned as feck hmm we can pull u trhou let us tinker brb onj u sorry again didnt see u relized symtoms i sed my bad shud read more b4 replying


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## researchkitty (Mar 31, 2010)

the tramp said:


> Having trouble getting this unit to drain. I don't think it's an airlock issue, as the drain pump doesn't even turn on automatically. When I tap one of the floats (the highest one of the two at the bottom of the controller), it turns on and drains. Any suggestions?


Sounds like a float is off balance. Check to make sure they are level.



boxing119 said:


> Also shnkrmn: i read about the exact same thing on another thread on here were he had to hide his meter behind the Mylar in his grow room. i deffenitlay think it is an odd thing.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/316440-kittys-6000-watt-ebb-flo.html


She.  I hope not many men would have a Hello Kitty avatar!!! The interference was a result of the digital ballast, though, and not the Ebb & Flow Controller. If you are having RF interference with a controller (weird?!), just wrap your pH meters power cord in aluminum foil. Or, those magnetic ferrites you can buy at Radio Shack will do the trick.



thelotuseed said:


> Frankly i'm surprised they're doing as good as they are. I've recently fixed that (3 days ago) and am flooding 4 times only during lights on. I've got 55 gals of rez water. I'm running hard water. I've kept the ph consistently between 5.8-6.2


The problem you have is threefold.

1 - Your pH, while trivially high, is a little high. You should make it 5.6, and then let it slowly rise to no more than 6.0 before you correct it again. When it starts getting in the 6.2+ range it starts to do bad things disallowing nutrients into your plants.

2 - Focus on new growth. What was "done to the bad of the plant" is done, watch the new stuff growing for the warm fuzzy feelin'

3 - Finally, your biggest problem...... You're SEVERELY overwatering your plants. Check out my grow log in my signature. Just fed them week 2 nutrients today in veg. I flood the buckets ONCE about an hour after the lamps turn on. You should remain flooding once to twice per day until you are flowering and the plants get much larger, then kick it to 3 a day a few weeks in flowering then 4 a day by the last week of the flowering cycle. Cut the watering back and your plants should look fine and not droopy in the next 3-4 days at best.



tenbob said:


> sorry bro i jus red u already now about ph n over fet prob so on n so try the quarter sulution stoned as feck hmm we can pull u trhou let us tinker brb onj u sorry again didnt see u relized symtoms i sed my bad shud read more b4 replying


I hope you perform sex better than you type.


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## tenbob (Mar 31, 2010)

hey kitty u now u shit n u can defo put better than me will u have a comment on mine plz n give me advice i have just topped n fim'd so imjust focusing on new growth i could do with imput as every thing easier wen we all stick together mayb u can advise me on root depth as my system small depth k btw i have rock woll hydroton works 4me https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/317301-flood-drain-help-plz-rate.html
thanks . tenbob


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 31, 2010)

tenbob and kitty....ahem but didnt i just say all that? =)


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 31, 2010)

kitty, i just took a look at your grow and i gotta say the rasta joint is bonkers. i need to know one thing, i run a few rooms and i swear by botanicares PBP line, i wanted to do a comparison using humboldts line, i was online all day lookin g the thier lineup and its so confusing. i would like to know how long you have been using it, how you like it, is it soft like PBP or can you burn plants easily and which products do you run? im so lost they have ginormous, big up and 22. organics dont matter to me but i hate salty synthetic nutes. i dont mind using complicated nutrients either, i am not sure which one to use for the base as there is 3 options, but i would most likely if i didnt know better, sea-cal,sea-mag, honey ginormous of rearly to mid flower and big up for late flower, does that sound right? i do not know anyone personally who runs this stuff and the few people on forums who i have seen use it say its good but they dont even know why its good, wannabee weed barons ya know?


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## tenbob (Mar 31, 2010)

hey tenbob bak am with a mate n he says ur over watering might be lack of drainage in pots also heres a link for a deficicy table cause summat wrong here raise ur light a bit n cool the bulb they need moister to the leaves but not the roots https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/304649-marijuana-deficiency-table-report.html i ere bro 2 elp add sum respect


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 31, 2010)

tenbob said:


> hey tenbob bak am with a mate n he says ur over watering might be lack of drainage in pots also heres a link for a deficicy table cause summat wrong here raise ur light a bit n cool the bulb they need moister to the leaves but not the roots https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/304649-marijuana-deficiency-table-report.html i ere bro 2 elp add sum respect


bro do you know what thread you are on? this is the ebb and grow thread, he has clay pellets in a flood and drain system helloooo. all those issues stem from using GH 3 part nutes and over watering, just a simple cut back in flood times will do. plus using a fraction of GH's recomended dosages will result in plants looking like that. young plants get hit hard when using say 3ml of grow-micro-bloom. plus his lamps are 3 feet above the plants, plus he has nutrient salt biuld up, it builds very fast, i recommended a flush every month but to be honest with this stuff once every 2weeks. this is why i recommneded he try the lucas formula, this formula has all the nutrients in correct rates and balanced almost perfectly for an average plant. salts will cause his "rootzone PH" to be different than the rez locking out nutrients. as for humidty he never listed it but as the plants get larger it will rise, for the next 10 days he can be at like 20% RH and be just fine. i dont want to sound like a dick tenbob but instead of just looking at the pictures and throwing out some advice you need to read his post dude


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## patlpp (Mar 31, 2010)

Morris, I think they're tippin a few. I do Lucas (not literally). The general consensus is that Lucas isn't so hot in veg and if using GH go Ratio: 1:1;1 G/M/B EC .9 early veg and Ratio 3:2:1 with 1.9 EC Full Veg, in other words GH's general schedule on the label. Than go Lucas @ 12/12. I found Sensi A/B beats Lucas veg to death. I run about [email protected] conv pretty well with it, (even with the urea). Lucas though is great and I was thinking of using the same technique with Botanicare cns17 coco line.Have you had experience with it or just PBP?


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## morrisgreenberg (Mar 31, 2010)

just PBP, fox famrms GH flora, BC dyna gro and earth juice have been tried. thats why i suggested the lucas, i know its much easier on plants plus he has 2 strains who clearly have different feeding habits, i think for general health of both strains the lucas would be a good fit. personally when i ran GH's label recipe plants were soooo unhappy, and no matter PH i found myself flushing every week because it took me dumping GH;s line to get healthy plants again. of all those brands i tried the PBP gives me the happiest healthiest plants i have ever seen, never discoloration of any type, never burns or deficientcies, just rapid growth


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## researchkitty (Mar 31, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> kitty, i just took a look at your grow and i gotta say the rasta joint is bonkers. i need to know one thing, i run a few rooms and i swear by botanicares PBP line, i wanted to do a comparison using humboldts line, i was online all day lookin g the thier lineup and its so confusing. i would like to know how long you have been using it, how you like it, is it soft like PBP or can you burn plants easily and which products do you run? im so lost they have ginormous, big up and 22. organics dont matter to me but i hate salty synthetic nutes. i dont mind using complicated nutrients either, i am not sure which one to use for the base as there is 3 options, but i would most likely if i didnt know better, sea-cal,sea-mag, honey ginormous of rearly to mid flower and big up for late flower, does that sound right? i do not know anyone personally who runs this stuff and the few people on forums who i have seen use it say its good but they dont even know why its good, wannabee weed barons ya know?


Pretty much every jug of goods from Humboldt is extremely potent product and very thick. The only ones that are watery-thin and clear are those from their Grow/Micro/Bloom line.

Their product line and their website is indeed extremely confusing. I'd recommend going to youtube and watching the Humboldt Nutrients videos. Just search for their name (and dont forget the D in HumbolDt!) and it'll come up. 5 part video, takes a half hour to watch.

But even still it's a bit confusing. So then go to their website and download the 8 week moderate feeding chart. See the products listed? That's what you buy. Ignore the rest, they dont apply to you.  Easy!

Enjoy the cost of Humboldt Roots ($24.95 per 25 gallons of water) and ProZyme ($22.50 per 25 gallons of water). The rest of the stuff is reasonably priced, though.

I've used Humboldt products for 2 weeks total. Switched from AN. No experience with your line.

If you like, send me a few seeds and I'll test em with my nutes and you test em with yours. Always love a competition!



patlpp said:


> Morris, I think they're tippin a few. I do Lucas (not literally). The general consensus is that Lucas isn't so hot in veg and if using GH go Ratio: 1:1;1 G/M/B EC .9 early veg and Ratio 3:2:1 with 1.9 EC Full Veg, in other words GH's general schedule on the label. Than go Lucas @ 12/12. I found Sensi A/B beats Lucas veg to death. I run about [email protected] conv pretty well with it, (even with the urea). Lucas though is great and I was thinking of using the same technique with Botanicare cns17 coco line.Have you had experience with it or just PBP?


Lucas himself says not to use the Lucas Formula for vegging too! Just stick to the bottle for that one is all if you use the same line of nutrients is what he recommends.


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## thelotuseed (Mar 31, 2010)

Hey guys, very much indebted to all the feedback thus far.

Whats funny about this all. And its quite funny, is this picture of a perfectly fine plant in soil that we've kept next to the ebb plants the entire time. It makes me want to cry. We just water it every day with light nutrient and it grows like its the sweetest most nicest cuddliest thing in the world. 

I'm going to convert to RO water. Going to start feeding once a day. I raised the light just under a foot. Humidity stays around 40-55 and temp fluxes given the outside temp of any given day between 60-75 lights on, probably 50-60 lights off. I'm pretty sure there is adequate air circulation, i run a small fan pointed above the plants and leave an opening in one of the wall curtains. I suppose i could very well have ph poisoned the shit out of them, i did water waaay to much like others suggested smartly and thats gotta be it causing all the powder, probably made the salt build up from readjusting so much, this would seem to make alot of sense if true. 

What i'm still generally unsure about is the nute amounts and how i should keep track of them and re-up them. I just purchased a TDS meter which has an adjustable EC conversion currently set at .71. 

I found this ask lucas thread: http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892&page=2

I'm tempted to follow this lucas guys instructions because he seems to know his shit and this thread has some of the most well put and accurate/consistent info i've found. I'm just a little confused with the 0-8-16 idea. Does that mean to say 8 ml of micro per gallon and 16 ml per gallon? If so that seems very excessive, as i've just been running 2.5, 2.5., .6 and the plants are shitting themselves. I must be wrong in thinking so, if i am what does it mean then? I think i just dont understand nutrients, ppm, and ec in general. Can someone point me to a thread or something that clearly and simply defines how it all works? 

I know that i'd like to start just topping off with ro water every day whilst adding more nutrients to create the right ppm of around 1400 (as lucas suggests) when needed. Seems logical to me, perhaps a bit complicated but understandable if i need to go that way. I can only access RO water by filling up 3 gallon containers ( i have 4) at the safeway 5 minutes away, so it'd be easier if i didnt have to flush frequently. Perhaps every 2 weeks or longer is tolerable. 

Pretty sure the RO will clear it all up though, pretty confident on that. 

Yup, thanks guys. much love, keep the feedback rolling, loving it.


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## researchkitty (Apr 1, 2010)

thelotuseed said:


> What i'm still generally unsure about is the nute amounts and how i should keep track of them and re-up them. I just purchased a TDS meter which has an adjustable EC conversion currently set at .71.
> 
> I found this ask lucas thread: http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892&page=2
> 
> ...


The RO water will help you be better able to determine the nutrient levels since RO water is close to 0 ppm. Its a smart move if your tap water sucks. (Mine is 40ppm tap water, very fortunate here, so no RO).

Remember when you change to RO water you MUST use a Calcium and Magnesium suppliment. Humboldts version of this is Sea Cal and Sea Mag. GH makes one called CalMag. It's about $40 a gallon give or take. If you dont do this with RO water, you will be very disappointed in your results.

As for reading the 0-8-16, this refers to the mL/gallon of nutrients. 0 of the grow, 8mL/G of micro, and 16mL/G of Bloom. You dont use the "grow" part because the micro and bloom have enough product, its just pointless.

So you'd fill your reservoir just like that above, and then for the stupid simple method, just add water every day or two. Your pH will go up a little with more water, so keep an eye on that. At the end of the week, add back nutrients to get the ppm back to 1400 ***AFTER*** you've topped off the reservoir again. (Never add nutrients BEFORE you add the water, as this will make your ppm wrong). You dont even need to empty your reservoir either. Ever, really. Clean it every 6 months if you want. Just keep H2O2 at 2mL/G every 3 days, and use FloraKleen once a month. The H2O2 will keep the roots nice and healthy and keep the system clean. With a nice clean nutrient program you'll hopefully see little to no buildup.

Does this help clarify it? If not, let us know!


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## thelotuseed (Apr 1, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Does this help clarify it? If not, let us know!


\
It would seem so. Yes. Thank you. My mind is clear now. I'm sure that must mean you've attained some kind of positive karma. If it works like that...

I will probably have some more questions as time goes on but i think this clears up my immediate concerns. Would guys recommend following that Lucas's guys advice for most of my concerns?

Oh, are we still recommending i flood once a day when lights first turn on?


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## patlpp (Apr 1, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Remember when you change to RO water you MUST use a Calcium and Magnesium suppliment.
> 
> Disagree : Lucas has stated that all values are in reference to using RO water. That is why he eliminated the grow with bloom: Bloom has 1.5% Mg and Micro has 5% Calcium.


The main phylosophy in Lucas IMO is ease of use and no REQUIRED use of sups. If you have extra hard water than he states to use Hard water Micro. Funny how Lucas is like some biblical reference or something.


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 1, 2010)

lucas formula is not a one size fits all, i never had succes with it, and i hate GH flora nutes aswell , i guess my strains didnt like the stuff, but as for flooding its about the size of plants at this point. but i can give u a personal reference from me, at first x-plant i give 2-3 15min floods per day(24hr light) after one week or until i start seeing a little root make it to the bottom i will give a flood every 4hrs for 15mins(please note that when running over 20 buckets a 15min flood is very little so more often wont hurt) by this time we should have the plants in at almost 2 weeks, this is when in this system they take off, increase feedings to every 3 hours for 15mins. the next progressions at 3 weeks in veg should have rapid foliage growth along with a nice root system going i give a flood every 3hrs for 30mins, this is the highest flood time i ever go and with the plants getting bigger along with a larger healthy root system enabling the plant to take up plenty of water and will be just fine with 30mins feedings


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## the tramp (Apr 1, 2010)

I agree morrisgreenberg. However IMHO, the main point of Lucas' "formula" is that it gets rid of alot of the guessing game (not all, but alot) of nute deficiencies, by putting the focus NOT on nutrients but on maintaining a good environment (i.e. temp, air, etc.). But as you said, some strains as I've found out don't like it in it's raw format. Though for a beginner or expert alike, it is a nice foundation to build off of; as far as understanding what a plant needs, seeing what it needs and giving it what it needs when it needs it. In fact, I like using it when I'm first growing an unfamiliar strain. It gives me (in my mind) a level playing field as far as determining what the specific strain wants more or less of. Looking back at my grow log, I often determine to try a different "formula" for future success. Though, it's probably just because I've gotten so familiar with it through the years.....and I'm lazy.


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## patlpp (Apr 2, 2010)

I've found that I can use full blown Lucas ([email protected] conv) or have to back off to 800 depending on the strain. I may try Advanced GBM and use Lucas formula and try the same strains again and see what happens. I like the 3 part so I can use for other crops like cukes and such.


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 2, 2010)

the funny thing is i found my self recommending it a few posts back


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## tenbob (Apr 2, 2010)

hey i agree gotta read before seeing pics was verry chich n chongd i agree about flushing but the salt build up should only be on the top as were the heat evaporates the execcs water, were the roots are u shouldnt be letting them dry out down there to evaporate n leave a salt build up but yh tottaly need to read through before comment + only try to help i hope that table was a help


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## dtp5150 (Apr 2, 2010)

Problems!!!

This morning the ebb&grow will not fill up the buckets, or drain the buckets. I checked the pumps in a wall outlet, they both work. I hooked up small lamps to the timer sockets and there is never any current going to the plugs!

The fuse is OK. Any help guys?


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## COgrow (Apr 2, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> Problems!!!
> 
> This morning the ebb&grow will not fill up the buckets, or drain the buckets. I checked the pumps in a wall outlet, they both work. I hooked up small lamps to the timer sockets and there is never any current going to the plugs!
> 
> The fuse is OK. Any help guys?


Do the pumps work if you plug them directly into the wall?


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## patlpp (Apr 2, 2010)

I know u probably did this but did u try another ac outlet? Maybe plug it into the same one u tested the pumps with?. If still bad, check the ac cord and ensure it looks ok. Other than that, ur going to have to take it back. Hope ur warranty is still good.


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## dtp5150 (Apr 2, 2010)

The pumps both work and also the lights for the timer work but there isn't any actual power well ugh warranty it is


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## patlpp (Apr 2, 2010)

Give R&M a call and explain . Hate to see that happen to ya. u will have to send the bucket in b4 they swap with you. Good thing is you get one off the shelf with new pumps and Tee's and elbows!


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## WaterDog (Apr 2, 2010)

My local hydro said they've had so many problems with these control boxes they are going to stop selling until CAP gets them figured out, 6 returned last week and 2 shop units last month alone


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 2, 2010)

that blows brother, especially mid grow, i have 3 of these systems and knock on wood for a year all good, only issues was drain pumps had vaccum issues here and there, one thing i did notice was out of 3 systems, i got 1 from htg and 2 from plantlighting.com, out of the 2 from PL one of them had a different face on the timer, my 2 have a clock with hands, this other one just has 24hour times with no hands. what model do you have, because i see too many people now adays with issues and from what i have read is that CAp is having major financial issues and quality has fell thru the floor, some of the main engineers left cap and started sentinel and redesigned this unit and came up with the MEF. i have pondered what i would have to do if a controller failed and since i have all kinds of tubs and parts, i would rig up a tub linked in the same manner that the controller is for the drain back, top feed and make it recirculating for the time being. if you need more details on how to do this you can PM me, this would involve you raising your buckets and having proper fittings and drill bits


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## boxing119 (Apr 2, 2010)

hey guys so it seems like 11 out of my 12 plants have only a few more days left before i flush. my biggest plant is not even close to ready... any ideas on how to keep a plant out of flush with the ebb and gro, could i just disconnect it from the rest? any tips would be great.


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## dtp5150 (Apr 3, 2010)

should i dare void my warranty and look inside? someone already made a DIY controller with a radio shack relay....maybe a multimeter and a trip to radio shack would solve the problem


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## dieselhound (Apr 3, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> hey guys so it seems like 11 out of my 12 plants have only a few more days left before i flush. my biggest plant is not even close to ready... any ideas on how to keep a plant out of flush with the ebb and gro, could i just disconnect it from the rest? any tips would be great.


You can disconnect from main and water. I just stick a pump in a five gallon bucket and run it around 6x per day. Hook it up to your bucket at the bottom to fill and gravity will do the rest. Your buckets must be elevated. Let me know if this makes sense.

Good Luck,
Sticky


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## Quemado (Apr 4, 2010)

For everyone having pump problems pull your pump out of the res then put it back while running so the vacum is cool. Also your end of the pipe line from the pump make sure its not submerged cause it need straight air flow. Thats what ive found out myself


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## COgrow (Apr 5, 2010)

anyone looking to buy a used 12 pot system? It's about to finish it's first crop and will be ready in about 2 months, has worked perfectly. I have to move grow locations and I'm not sure that I will have the space for it in my next location. Also willing to trade for something smaller. PM me if you are in C/S, Pueblo or Denver.


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## boxing119 (Apr 8, 2010)

hey guys just set up my new 24 site system and im doing a pre run with just water to see how it went and everything filled fine the only problem was a small leak on about 5 of the buckets it seems the water is creeping out the side of the rubber grommet has anyone else had this problem or any ideas how to fix it?


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## doniawon (Apr 8, 2010)

yeah.. just keep switching the grommets and couplings until they are water tight.. also look for cracks at the bottom of the hole..


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## patlpp (Apr 8, 2010)

Yea, The grommets are designed to go a certain way: The tapered, more circular end points out.


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 9, 2010)

i just had the same issue, re-used hosing was to blame, little drips, i solved this by making sure the lips of the grommets were proper, pushed the connectors in more and wedged the hose on deeper


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## patlpp (Apr 10, 2010)

These Ebb & Gro buckets are too small!! This is a Nirvana Bubblelicious root ball from a plant that underwent 30 day veg, 10 week flower. She stood 28" high. Seems just a tad root bound? 
Nutes: Advanced Sensi Grow, GH Lucas Bloom. Zone,silica and Hygrozyme were the only additives. These additives cost me $1.50 extra doing the math but you can say roots are not an issue. The camera makes them look browner plus this is 2 days after harvest. I have done other grows in this size bucket with nothing near this amount of root. I have to say Zone and Hygrozyme work!!


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## mrduke (Apr 10, 2010)

looks like you only filled the bucket about half way with hydrton, try filling it to the top


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## patlpp (Apr 10, 2010)

It was filled all the way, it just was loose and fell off before the pik.


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 12, 2010)

now thats sexy


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## mrduke (Apr 12, 2010)

I was looking around this morning and noticed my stalks are larger than a roll of quarters, 3 week veg. I love this setup this is my first run with res outside room, I will never again put it inside what a bunch of wasted space


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## Str8Dank (Apr 12, 2010)

mrduke said:


> looks like you only filled the bucket about half way with hydrton, try filling it to the top



yeah i agree this looks like a half filled bucket. mine get like that though and never go into the bottom bucket really. thinking about drilling out the holes a little bigger and see how it works. 

they are bound no doubt but what can ya do unless you want to build a 5gal version. there is a company that does make a 5 gal version....

http://bigdaddyshydro.com/Catalog.html

$600 for a 5 gal bucket system. 

I'm going to run this system a little longer then switch to a under current 13 gal with 40" centers or build a MPB DoubleD system....


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 13, 2010)

i blew out 4footers plus -first run roots never grew out the bucket, in hydro you can grow out a 4ft tree in a coffee mug. to achieve a rootball like that one pictured you would need aatleast a 5gal pot. i believe a larger bucket like a 5gallon would be a waste of hydroton, and the makers of this system got it right with bucket size as opposed to greentrees system multi flow that used 5's


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 13, 2010)

that nig daddy system is garbage, dont do it! its a timer based flood system


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## dtp5150 (Apr 14, 2010)

regarding my failing timer thing, C.A.P. replied to me with a phone number after going to their website and I have yet to call them. Its really not that pain to water them every 3 hours since I work from home anyways, but I'll call them tomorrow. They'll help me fix it so thats cool.

Regarding that root ball. Can we please see a picture of the entire plant. Thank you.


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## patlpp (Apr 14, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> Regarding that root ball. Can we please see a picture of the entire plant. Thank you.


Only have pik at 3 weeks bloom; 2 week seed,4 week veg. Did not grow much more vertically. I'd say 28" final height , 2.5 OZ dried which I have given all away to the needy. This one had serious N toxicity before I switched to AN Sensi Grow for veg.


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## dtp5150 (Apr 14, 2010)

it seems like your roots are too big for only 2.5 oz

If not, I guess thank you for showing us the limits of this system.

It just doesn't seem right a 12 site system would only get 2lbs max.


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## patlpp (Apr 14, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> when you say 28" height, is that including the bucket?


No. Measured from base of plant to top. I was lucky to get 2.5oz, the plant was seriously sick at 3-4 wks in flower. I probably would have gotten more if I wasn't root bound?


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## boxing119 (Apr 14, 2010)

so i just harvested my plants and the all look really good its just that when i was cutting down i noticed the were starting to get some male like parts, like where there was a stem going out to a nug rather then a pistil there was a little ball in that area in just about all my plants is this common? is the weed still good or what?


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## dtp5150 (Apr 15, 2010)

no its all bad send it to me


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## IGroWhErwAterflo (Apr 15, 2010)

Man I read almost all the goods and the bad on here , I just got my system running and I'm loving
it!! ...first time hydro grower!..I'm using the cutting edges 3 parts nutes has
anyone else use these before ?!like and dislike?


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 15, 2010)

IGroWhErwAterflo said:


> Man I read almost all the goods and the bad on here , I just got my system running and I'm loving
> it!! ...first time hydro grower!..I'm using the cutting edges 3 parts nutes has
> anyone else use these before ?!like and dislike?


 
good luck any issues come up theres someone always on that will help fast. as for the nutes they are pretty popular on other forums, i hear nothing but good things


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## Easily Amused (Apr 15, 2010)

just received my ebb n grow. fuckin stoked. roomie moved out now his room is the grow lab instead of my dirt basement and master closet!! thought that was a sick idea of replacing his part of rent and bills towards my mortgage. 10' x 10' bedroom with a good sized closet with racks for a nice t-5 veg and mother set-up. ive read thru this entire thread. ya about 2 hrs worth of skimming thru the b.s. for all the tech info. alot of good stuff in here glad theres some ebb n grow PROS. also have a buddy thats been using it with awesome results. no fuckin brainer! he still has a month of flower with jack herer's and already has sum knock your ass out baseball bat colas on his hoes. impressive. ill come here for all my Q's about this system. so far have a 6x6x6 tent. 1000w hps, ebb n gro, 2 ea 8" can fans. one for light cooling and 1 for exhaust to attic. cant wait to get it all rolling. about 50% there so far. will start a journal shortly with the build and vegging. THANKS FOR THE GREAT TIPS AND EXP INFO EVERYONE!!!


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## BeginnersLuck (Apr 16, 2010)

Folks I have a question... 

I have noticed that with my 24 bucket system it takes about 10-14 minutes to completely fill the buckets. 

What I am wondering if people set their feeding schedules to 1 or 2 notches on the timer. 

I use 2 because I am under the impression that they should soak for 15 minutes is this correct?

10-15min fill
15-20min soak
drian

Thanks BL

Rep ++ for good feedback.


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## dtp5150 (Apr 16, 2010)

<> to fix my cap ebb n grow
<> i have to send in my ctonroller bucket
<> how am i supposed to take care of 14 plants without the controller bucket

i have to make my own ghetto controller bucket


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## BeginnersLuck (Apr 16, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> <> to fix my cap ebb n grow
> <> i have to send in my ctonroller bucket
> <> how am i supposed to take care of 14 plants without the controller bucket
> 
> i have to make my own ghetto controller bucket


dtp how many weeks are you? Can you manually feed and then send it in when your done with this batch?

Is it economical to buy another controller and keep two on hand ?


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## mrduke (Apr 16, 2010)

i set mine so it floods 30 mins every other flood then back to 15, 4 floods every 3 hours , with 15 sites



BeginnersLuck said:


> Folks I have a question...
> 
> I have noticed that with my 24 bucket system it takes about 10-14 minutes to completely fill the buckets.
> 
> ...


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 16, 2010)

oh yea, but watch out when they are young, i like a flood for 15min once every 5hrs for the first 7-10 days after xplant, even if they only get a good 5 mins of feeding, but when they get larger they like a flood every 3 hrs at 30mins a pop, large root systems can hand it no problem


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## smokingrubber (Apr 16, 2010)

No soak is required. The system needs to replace the stale air inside the growing chamber and wet the rocks. That's it. Unless you've got more than 18-24 buckets, then 15 minutes is plenty.


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 16, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> <> to fix my cap ebb n grow
> <> i have to send in my ctonroller bucket
> <> how am i supposed to take care of 14 plants without the controller bucket
> 
> i have to make my own ghetto controller bucket


this is simple, if you have a hydro shop close by i suggest you hit it up and make a recirculating DWC system, very fast and easy, first hit up the hydro shop and get a few 1/2in bulkheads, no need for grommets because without the perfect holesaw they will leak trust me, just as your buckets are linked to the controller , drill holes for bulkheads into a rubbermaid tote like an 18gallon, drop one of your pumps into the tote, connect to a 1/2 poly hose, pick up some 1/4in poly spaghetti lines and 1/4in barbed connectors , these are your feed lines, hole punch into 1/2in poly from pumpand place them into the top of your buckets, so now any water being top fed will recirculate thru the bottom back to the controller tote, i dont want to post a link on the thread because its from another forum, this other forum is bonkers over RDWC and to be honest when they use strong air pumps they get some of the best growth i ever seen


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## BeginnersLuck (Apr 16, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> No soak is required. The system needs to replace the stale air inside the growing chamber and wet the rocks. That's it. Unless you've got more than 18-24 buckets, then 15 minutes is plenty.


So having the roots soak in the solution for 30 minutes doesnt allow them to drink more in your opinion?


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## dtp5150 (Apr 16, 2010)

thanks for the DIY help! This doesnt seem too hard


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## dieselhound (Apr 16, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> so i just harvested my plants and the all look really good its just that when i was cutting down i noticed the were starting to get some male like parts, like where there was a stem going out to a nug rather then a pistil there was a little ball in that area in just about all my plants is this common? is the weed still good or what?


Sorry Bro,

That sounds like a hermie to me. Do they look like banana's where pistil's should be?

I had the same problem with Casey Jone's clones from harborside and some Frist Lady seeds from Sensi Seeds in Amsterdam.

You can vape it or run it thru Bubble Bags.

Good Luck


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## boxing119 (Apr 17, 2010)

well it seemed like all the bud was good and that maybe i just waited to long to harvest because the bud still looks normal and fine


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 18, 2010)

off topic, but i need some serious info and since this is the thread where most of you guys have a good rapport with me, so i am considering a new start in life, i am thinking about moving to san diego and setting up shop and starting a new life in warm weather, can someone honestly tell me whats the scene like out there? i am will to go and make a run out there for atleast a yr, this will be a heavy investment and for the community of "ours" do you think it would be a waste of tim,e? i know the locals dont like new jacks rolling up on there scene, any thoughts guys>?


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## GHOPZZ (Apr 18, 2010)

what are the yileds on the average is everyone seeing from this system,?? how big does everyone let there plants get before they flower? it just seems the 2gallon buvkets are to smal??


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## doniawon (Apr 18, 2010)

GHOPZZ said:


> what are the yileds on the average is everyone seeing from this system,?? how big does everyone let there plants get before they flower? it just seems the 2gallon buvkets are to smal??


 i would say no yield is average, totally grower dependent with the ebb and gro. lots of variables.. 
u can veg for a week or a month.. or longer 2 months is probably overkill.


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## GHOPZZ (Apr 18, 2010)

just looking for first hand knowledge would like to get the 24 site one , but i was debating if it was better than doing 12 5 gallon indivual buckets, with a longer veg time like 2 months


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## GHOPZZ (Apr 18, 2010)

also how much light would be good under the 24 site ebb and grow system?? is 3-600watt hps systems good enough??


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## doniawon (Apr 18, 2010)

GHOPZZ said:


> also how much light would be good under the 24 site ebb and grow system?? is 3-600watt hps systems good enough??


 yeah 3 600's would be perfect.. if you veg for long periods 1000's might be better because of your dense canopy. or maybe some vertical t 5's or 400w's.. 

trees are fun with the ebb and gro but require lots of light sights to keep everything happy.


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## 420libra89 (Apr 18, 2010)

I have 3 1000 watt lights and I want to use them vertical bare bulb with the ebb and grow system. How would you guys set up the lights and how many plants would you grow? I can do anywhere from 10 to 18 plants, and I have roughly a 10x10 room and a 15000 btu ac.


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## bigbacon2 (Apr 18, 2010)

Question about new cap system. Please help...

Alright i just bought the cap ebb and grow system and am gonna be running between 30 and 36 buckets.it is currently set up for 36. I upgraded the pumps so it can fill all the buckets at a faster rate i am using i believe a 600 GPH pump for my fill pump. It does an awesome job filling all the buckets in a timely matter.

The problem i am having is i upgraded to a bigger pump for the drain pump also but it when its draining it starts to suck air before the bottom float valve is engaged so the pump stays on and doesnt turn off. And the buckets also dont fully drain,, They are all currently sitting about 2 inches above the controller for better drainage but i dont know what to do about the drain pump situation.. Please help my clones really really need to get in this system.
Thanks


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## patlpp (Apr 18, 2010)

Have you tried laying the pump on its side where the intake is ?


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## bigbacon2 (Apr 18, 2010)

yeah but the pump still makes the dry sucking noise... what do people do when they upgrade pumps?


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## GreenThumbSucker (Apr 19, 2010)

bigbacon2 said:


> yeah but the pump still makes the dry sucking noise... what do people do when they upgrade pumps?


THe half inch hoses drain slowly. If you want it to drain as fast as the pump, you need to refit the buckets with 3/4 inch hoses and fittings. This means you would have to redrill each outer bucket.

I would just go to home depot and buy 2 gallon buckets and make fit them with 3/4 inch hoses.

Dont worry about the 2 inches of water in the bottom of each bucket. The plants use this.


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## bigbacon2 (Apr 19, 2010)

Yeah i figured the water in the bottom was fine.. The problem is the bottom float valve never activates to the drain pump never turns off. Its almost like i need a bottom suction pump...The stock pump feels like it pulls to slow from the buckets with 36 of them. I am very stumped as to what to do.


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## patlpp (Apr 19, 2010)

Why is speed an issue? Maybe you should use the stock drain pump and incorporate the time it takes to drain with your total desired soak time. I find 15 min minimum soak is fine. I just don't get why a slow drain is a problem. The whole system only needs run 2 to 3 times a day anyway.


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## boxing119 (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey guys so, My 24 site ebb and grow is up in running, I am running 12 Big Bud 12 Medi Bud under 4 x 1000w lights.... ( which I cant keep any where to close to cool enough to turn on all 4 yet) but as i have my clones in now, i have noticed my system is not draining anymore during the drain cycle. the only ways i can get the bucket to drain is by hooking up the drain pump to a normal outlet, it seems to me that the drain plug on the ebb and gro controller does not receive power any more, because the pump works fine as soon as i plug it in to any other outlet... the first 30 runs went fine than stopped working... has this happened to any one else? any tips on how to fix? any suggestions will help


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## patlpp (Apr 21, 2010)

Check to ensure bottom floats are not obstructed in any way. They need to be totally floating to drain. Wiggle the wires going to the bottom floats also.


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## shnkrmn (Apr 22, 2010)

I just harvested 4 plants I ran in my system. A recent poster commented on roots being bound in the buckets. I have to agree. I got a pretty good yield, maybe 3 oz per plant, but the root balls were black and stinky on the bottom indicating anaerobic conditions, and I don't really understand how water could freely enter and exit such a dense mass of material. and draw in and expel gasses as CAP's lit says.

I didn't use hygrozyme for this run and maybe I vegged them for too long (three weeks) before flowering. The next time I use the system I'm going to go with zero-veg clones and see what that gets me. I flooded five times a day during lights on. What schedule do most of you guys use?


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## mrduke (Apr 22, 2010)

I also flood mine 5 times.after each oneof my grows the roots have been a thick mass in the exact shape of the bucket, but I've never had them be anything then whiteish tan.do you lift your buckets at all? I have mine sitting on a 1 1/2" block to help remove more of the left over water, leaving just a 1/2" or so. Do you add h202 to your res. it should help with the root rot.

post pic of your zero veg I've always want to do that with like 24-30 sites under 2 1000's


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## cvbud (Apr 22, 2010)

so is there anyone at all who likes are has had success with the STG inserts? i just bought two of the systems with a butt load of the STG inserts not long ago, and now im finding the "go to" thread for these systems and it doesn't seem like anyone likes these things. it sounds to me from videos and threads that the problem with the STG's is that they retain to much water in the bottom of the buckets which causes root rot and other crap to go on. and the solution is to raise the inner bucket a little. that to me does not sound like its that hard. it sure seems a lot easier that washing those damn clay pellets. IMO. is there anything else that people dont like about the STG? 

great thread. enjoyed all 79 pages of it.


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## shnkrmn (Apr 23, 2010)

mrduke said:


> I also flood mine 5 times.after each oneof my grows the roots have been a thick mass in the exact shape of the bucket, but I've never had them be anything then whiteish tan.do you lift your buckets at all? I have mine sitting on a 1 1/2" block to help remove more of the left over water, leaving just a 1/2" or so. Do you add h202 to your res. it should help with the root rot.
> 
> post pic of your zero veg I've always want to do that with like 24-30 sites under 2 1000's


I raise my buckets 1 inch with insulation board. I wonder if raising the inner bucket might be a good idea as well. As designed, they flood really deep. I use H202, 27%, but I'm skeptical about its ability diluted in 45 gallons of water; I think it completely oxidizes before it ever gets out of the reservoir. But this is not pythium type root rot where the roots turn to jelly and mush. I made the mistake of getting my nose close and sniffing. I gagged. sulphur and dead things. ugh.

Next run I'm going to run flood cycles as infrequently as possible. Once or twice a day max.


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## patlpp (Apr 23, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> I raise my buckets 1 inch with insulation board. I wonder if raising the inner bucket might be a good idea as well. As designed, they flood really deep. I use H202, 27%, but I'm skeptical about its ability diluted in 45 gallons of water; I think it completely oxidizes before it ever gets out of the reservoir. But this is not pythium type root rot where the roots turn to jelly and mush. I made the mistake of getting my nose close and sniffing. I gagged. sulphur and dead things. ugh.
> 
> Next run I'm going to run flood cycles as infrequently as possible. Once or twice a day max.


For root rot prevention I have found Dutch Masters Zone as a superb sup instead of H2O2. It is milder and has no effect on iron. It will not dissipate either. The dose is 1 ml/gal so 1 liter goes for 1000 gallons, or about 2 cents/gal, way cheaper than H2O2 at 5ml/gal . Also, I have a big ass air-stone in the res that kicks on 15 minutes before flood time. I also will get bags of ice and pluck them in the res once in a while to help keep the temps under 70 degrees. I don't have to do this all the time because I found placing a fan above the res and blowing into the res barrel helps tremendously keeping the res temp down. 

Between grows, as part of the sanitizing process, I run everything through a STRONG solution of hygrozyme for a day. Than I clear out the hygrozyme with replacement fresh water and clean with a STRONG solution of H2O2 for another day. When I do this I set the flood times for 1 hr on 1 hour off so everything soaks good. This gets all the crap out that's in the nooks and crannys of the pumps and lines. 

Finally, any hydroton that I keep I clean with Clearex real good. Clearex will neutralize the ionic polarity accumulated on the rock after use. If the root ball was excessively embedded in the rock like the picture I showed you earlier, I toss it. The labor involved removing old root and cleaning the hydroton is not justifiable.

I don't see the advantage of raising the buckets. No matter what you do, there will be that pool at the depth of the drain hole. Raising the bucket higher in relation to the feed bucket will also mean a lower level of flooding. I would rather the flood level reach the bottom ring of the bucket as designed.


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## shnkrmn (Apr 23, 2010)

I agree about not trying too hard to reuse hydroton. "excessively embedded in the rock" is right. The only 'ton I'm keeping is the stuff that remained loose and unbound by roots, about 25%.

My res temps were between 54 in February and 63 degrees at the end of the grow. Definitely not too warm.

I'll upgrade my airpump and stones before the next cycle. I'm also looking to upgrade the tubing; anyone have specific suggestions or suppliers for less kink-prone tubing?

Your recommendations for between grow sanitizing are good, nice and methodical, but why the redundant application of hygrozyme AND h202? The H-zyme is expensive


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## patlpp (Apr 23, 2010)

I guess it is overkill but I'm paranoid. I had a bad past experience with root rot and I hear no matter what you do, some of the beasties may be lurking in there so I went with the overkill method!


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 24, 2010)

hygrozyme hygrozyme and more hygrozyme, never an issue and raise your buckets one inch, this will leave one inch of water, this is just right, / hygrozyme is used in food preperation manufactuerers and used in cleaning surgical room equipment, nothing better than it out there for your roots. you can also save money by running only 4-5ml/gal instead of the 8-10ml they recommend. roots are scavengers, if you raise the buckets too high say 2 inches they roots will grow into the lines, this killed 5 plants of mine, so remember no more than an inch, and and with the use of hygrozyme for shitsd and gigles i didnt raise buckets for one run and the roots were perfect, they did not need to grow out into the hose looking for water


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 24, 2010)

I agree about not trying too hard to reuse hydroton. "excessively embedded in the rock" is right. The only 'ton I'm keeping is the stuff that remained loose and unbound by roots, about 25%.

My res temps were between 54 in February and 63 degrees at the end of the grow. Definitely not too warm.

I'll upgrade my airpump and stones before the next cycle. I'm also looking to upgrade the tubing; anyone have specific suggestions or suppliers for less kink-prone tubing?

Your recommendations for between grow sanitizing are good, nice and methodical, but why the redundant application of hygrozyme AND h202? The H-zyme is expensive 



i usually use fresh clay, replaces all hosing and scrub the buckets with hot water and peroxide, one thing you can do is what i did on one run currently is i hardlined my feedlines, i used 1/2 pvc in rows and used the soft 1/2in poly hose to branch to the buckets, works pretty good so far​


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## dieselhound (Apr 25, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> off topic, but i need some serious info and since this is the thread where most of you guys have a good rapport with me, so i am considering a new start in life, i am thinking about moving to san diego and setting up shop and starting a new life in warm weather, can someone honestly tell me whats the scene like out there? i am will to go and make a run out there for atleast a yr, this will be a heavy investment and for the community of "ours" do you think it would be a waste of tim,e? i know the locals dont like new jacks rolling up on there scene, any thoughts guys>?


Think long and hard about that decision. Unless you plan on coming out and setting up a warehouse w/ appropriate number of coop member's it's hard to make a buck in this market. Also, with the lagalization question prices may be coming down even more. Careful what you wish for my friend. The grass is alway's greener and all that shit.

Good luck with your decision.


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## Str8Dank (Apr 25, 2010)

got a question for you fellow Ebb and Grow users! 

i have 30 pots, 5 running to each of the inlets on the controller and they are positioned in the room in rows of 5. my furthest row of pots does not seem to be getting watered well! my hoses are ran really clean cut to the exact legnth they are spaced and all run down one side of my room and are loosly zip stripped togather so they dont move. for some reason those buckets just dont fill up all the way. i'm running 30 min fill cycles and i even raised my brain bucket a few inches until the closest buckets are filled to the rim of water but the back buckets only fill up about 1/3 of the way. the furthest row of buckets is about 12-15 ft to the first bucket and buckets are spaced about 1 ft apart so the furthest bucket is about 20 ft max. brand new hose this run and running house garden nutes which run super clean so i'm sure i have not clogged a line in the first two weeks where i'm running really light nutes. any suggestions?????


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## patlpp (Apr 25, 2010)

This may sound batty but are you in a basement ? The floors of such slope 1/8 to 1/4 inch a foot for flooding to a drain so when you have a length of 20 ft , thats a slope of 2.5 to 5 inches. So if the controller bucket is near the drain area, the furthest bucket is that much higher. Just a thought.


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## cvbud (Apr 25, 2010)

Str8Dank said:


> got a question for you fellow Ebb and Grow users!
> 
> i have 30 pots, 5 running to each of the inlets on the controller and they are positioned in the room in rows of 5. my furthest row of pots does not seem to be getting watered well! my hoses are ran really clean cut to the exact legnth they are spaced and all run down one side of my room and are loosly zip stripped togather so they dont move. for some reason those buckets just dont fill up all the way. i'm running 30 min fill cycles and i even raised my brain bucket a few inches until the closest buckets are filled to the rim of water but the back buckets only fill up about 1/3 of the way. the furthest row of buckets is about 12-15 ft to the first bucket and buckets are spaced about 1 ft apart so the furthest bucket is about 20 ft max. brand new hose this run and running house garden nutes which run super clean so i'm sure i have not clogged a line in the first two weeks where i'm running really light nutes. any suggestions?????


yeah, i would put a level down on the ground and check your floor if your traveling that far. if your not in construction, as a buddy thats frames home. hell have a 6' level you can use and you can get it dialed. if its not level, put your buckets on a 2 by 10 and level it out. that way everything is the same. 
good luck.


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## COgrow (Apr 26, 2010)

Anyone have advise on doing an emergency move of a 12 site with 3 foot plants in flower? The new room is ready for them, but it is 60 miles from their current location. It's a shitty situation, but they have to be moved by the end of the week because my friend is an idiot. I appreciate any help that I can get to minimize the stress on my girls.


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## patlpp (Apr 26, 2010)

Need to know what type of transportation u have and your current light schedule, day on or night on. Makes a difference. Can U get a van with tinting? or a pick-up with a topper?


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## shnkrmn (Apr 26, 2010)

Rent a moving truck for a day. Just make sure all the signal lights are functioning. You don't want to have a traffic stop over some useless shit. Move em in, strap them down and put a lock on it. Drive 2.4 miles over the speed limit. Do it all during their light period so you don't interrupt their cycle. If you are efficient, it shouldn't stress em out too much. They shouldn't even miss a flood cycle.

What did your idiot friend do???


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## mrduke (Apr 26, 2010)

that sounds like a f'ed up situation. but if you listen to shnkr's advice you should be OK


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## boxing119 (Apr 26, 2010)

Yeah i had to move 12 plants-5 weeks in to flower at 3am so no one in my apartment would see, I got the biggest u haul box they make, and put one plant per box, i did have the moving truck, there was no way to do it without it because they were so tall... the hard part was hooking my buckets back up because i made the mistake of just cutting the tubbing rater than taking it off. as long as you dont have a small tent to hook the buckets back up in, you should be fine. Just use the lighter trick.

Whats the Longest you can veg a plant in the ebb and grow for and still have a good healthy plant, I was thinking of vegging 6 weeks but with all the talk about root mass problems I am worried about growing to big of a plant for the 2 Ga buckets


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## morrisgreenberg (Apr 27, 2010)

my last whiteberry run vegged 6 weeks and had 5 ft plants with over a QP each on avg. this root bound talk is all bonk, in a flood tray you can rock a 3-4ft plant in a 5inch net pot


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## COgrow (Apr 27, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys. More info; light schedule is 10pm-10am and we are planning to rent a box van or trailer that they can all fit into safely. We're thinking of doing it just after a flood towards the end schedule (morning), but I am unsure of taking the whole thing apart and then not getting it back together before 10am. I picked up a bunch of extra tubing, grommets, "t's", etc. to replace them as needed, but I was thinking of taking all of the inner buckets out and not disconnecting the hoses on the outers to reduce the potential for leaks. The issue here, of course, is that I don't want to crush my beautiful roots. Do you think that I am best off disconnecting each bucket and putting them (both buckets and some tubing) into individual boxes in the van?

Boxing119--You can definitely veg for 6 weeks in the system. I vegged for about that long and the girls look beautiful without any issues. Check out my journal. I've been bad about adding pics since flower, but you can see what 6 weeks of veg in this bad boy system is capable of. Like MorrisGreenberg implies, you can grow trees with the E&G. I'll be better with pics once the ladies aren't 60 miles from me. One note, I am having to add a light mover and additional space because the plants got bigger than expected. It's getting hard to maintain proper light penetration on the bottom parts of the plants.


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## mrduke (Apr 27, 2010)

i dont know who said it but i read somwhere that you cant get plant rootbound in hydro, you just have to up the water schedule. i veged mine 5 weeks from clone and them bushes are huge and happy in week 5 of flower


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## patlpp (Apr 27, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> my last whiteberry run vegged 6 weeks and had 5 ft plants with over a QP each on avg. this root bound talk is all bonk, in a flood tray you can rock a 3-4ft plant in a 5inch net pot


What do you mean by a flood tray? What do you mean about a net pot? So your talking about an ebb/flow system? There is no such thing as root bound? I think you are right though to up the water schedule to reduce it. But because you don't get yours root bound does not mean it can't happen. It did to me as the pik showed but maybe thats what I should do in the future is water more.


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## COgrow (Apr 27, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Rent a moving truck for a day. Just make sure all the signal lights are functioning. You don't want to have a traffic stop over some useless shit. Move em in, strap them down and put a lock on it. Drive 2.4 miles over the speed limit. Do it all during their light period so you don't interrupt their cycle. If you are efficient, it shouldn't stress em out too much. They shouldn't even miss a flood cycle.
> 
> What did your idiot friend do???


This sounds like a good plan, thanks shnkrmn. My idiot friend told his land lord over 2 months early that he was going to be moving out so they want to come to the house a do some work before they show it to the next potential renters. The house owner is also a friend of ours, but I doubt that he would appreciate the efforts like we do. Had he just told him about a month early like he is required to do we could just finish this run without the stress on the girls.


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## shnkrmn (Apr 27, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> my last whiteberry run vegged 6 weeks and had 5 ft plants with over a QP each on avg. this root bound talk is all bonk, in a flood tray you can rock a 3-4ft plant in a 5inch net pot


Question for you Morris. I'm not using my ebb and grow system this time. I just started a flower run of 6 plants in 5 inch netpots in a turbogarden flooded 5 times during lights on. There is no additional medium other than what is contained in the netpots. They grew from seed like this to 30 inch plants in 8 weeks. Very healthy and happy. Do you think I will have a reduced yield because of the lack of roots? I'm guessing that my biggest problem is keeping them from falling over when the buds start swelling. They looked like this ten days ago when I flipped to 12/12.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a confirmed ebb and grow guy. I just have to go with a lighter more mobile structure for a cycle or two. Trying to keep my production levels up in the face of challenges.


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## cvbud (Apr 27, 2010)

how about those STG inserts? does anyone like them or had success with them? what have you found?


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## doniawon (Apr 27, 2010)

i hear they suck.


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## BeginnersLuck (Apr 27, 2010)

Would anyone care to look at my plants and provide me with feedback.. I use the Ebb and Grow and have yellowing and some discolored leaves.. Rep ++

Thanks BL

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/325621-expert-eyes-please-check-out.html <~~ Thread here click Link


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## dieselhound (Apr 27, 2010)

Are you using reverse osmosis water? Are you using magnesium supplementation? Plants use a lot of magnesium up to approx. 3 weeks into flower cycle. Do you have rust colored spots w/ yellowing on older leaves? Throw a pic up.

Good Luck


BeginnersLuck said:


> Would anyone care to look at my plants and provide me with feedback.. I use the Ebb and Grow and have yellowing and some discolored leaves.. Rep ++
> 
> Thanks BL
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/325621-expert-eyes-please-check-out.html


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## BeginnersLuck (Apr 27, 2010)

dieselhound said:


> Are you using reverse osmosis water? Are you using magnesium supplementation? Plants use a lot of magnesium up to approx. 3 weeks into flower cycle. Do you have rust colored spots w/ yellowing on older leaves? Throw a pic up.
> 
> Good Luck


Diesel can you click on the link I have pics up there any feedback would be appreciated on that thread I dont wanna hijack this one just get the Capp Ebb and Grow experts opinions.

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/325621-expert-eyes-please-check-out.html <~~ Link Here


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## WaterDog (Apr 27, 2010)

Where the best place to get expansion buckets? $80 for 6 pack seems high is that the going rate?


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## BeginnersLuck (Apr 27, 2010)

WaterDog said:


> Where the best place to get expansion buckets? $80 for 6 pack seems high is that the going rate?


The hardware store... build your own for like 15 bucks... 2 2 gal Buckets Rubber Gourmets and some tubing all to spec of course


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## dieselhound (Apr 27, 2010)

Home depot. IMO, I would switch to 5 gal buckets.


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## mrduke (Apr 27, 2010)

check out ebay theres a dude that sells some that are unbreakable and he says no leaks


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## WaterDog (Apr 27, 2010)

Yeaebay isn't much cheaper and I can't seem to find black bucks anywhere buthydro shop and there goes the price again just seeing if someone has a good hook up on buckets


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## cvbud (Apr 28, 2010)

i hear STG are awesome, and you get the best yields!


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## doniawon (Apr 28, 2010)

ive read many bad things and im actually yet to read or see any thing good about stg inserts.. maybe you could redirect me?

also i tried the white 2.5 replacement buckets from lowes, and about 30% cracked at the bottom under the grommets.


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## cvbud (Apr 28, 2010)

doniawon said:


> ive read many bad things and im actually yet to read or see any thing good about stg inserts.. maybe you could redirect me?
> 
> also i tried the white 2.5 replacement buckets from lowes, and about 30% cracked at the bottom under the grommets.


i just read from a few people that the growelf is far better than lowes or even the cap replacements. give them a shot. its about the same price. 
ill be giving the STG's a shot in about one week, ill keep you informed. but i keep bringing it up and talking poop about it because im trying to see if anyone has anything better to say about them than negative.


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## cvbud (Apr 28, 2010)

its just har for me to imagine that they can keep selling them when everyone says they dont work. we will find out in about a week. ill be keeping a log.


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## ears (Apr 29, 2010)

I was using the cap system, four in total. I lost one controller in the middle of a feed cycle and that left my plants flooded, on easter while out at the families. Next cap went down because of the timer would not turn. love to cycle manually...that was a joke and the last straw. so to answer your thread i dont used cap i found so local guys how built a new system growelf. Nice and local for me. there system has been chugging a way without a problem. My medium lava stone. No need to customize water stays below inner bucket. I use all E and F for, veg. moms, bloom. the move is very easy all the inners are the same. I clean all buckets, and the rez once a week. The love the white bucket because I can see that they are clean. I was worried about the white, but they are UV rated. T that i havent notice anything diff when thinking about fungi. I use advance nutz with sensi as my base. LOVE my advanced, but a little spendy. Like your thread, and forgive my SPEELING. i grow better than i spell.


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## doniawon (Apr 29, 2010)

Thread: for all CAP ebb and gro users. if your going to try and sell your products maybe you should post a picture, and start your own threads.? just a thought. and take the handles off the paint buckets.


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## mosseater (Apr 29, 2010)

havent heard of any one "back flushing" is what i call it.....dump about 2 gallons from res. into each of the end pots....about 3 times per week??


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## mosseater (Apr 29, 2010)

this will dilute and force out stale nutes from the lines...


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## mosseater (Apr 29, 2010)

doesnt anyone use Canna products here??


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## researchkitty (Apr 29, 2010)

COgrow said:


> Anyone have advise on doing an emergency move of a 12 site with 3 foot plants in flower? The new room is ready for them, but it is 60 miles from their current location. It's a shitty situation, but they have to be moved by the end of the week because my friend is an idiot. I appreciate any help that I can get to minimize the stress on my girls.


Dont do it during dark periods, do it during the light period. Just disconnect the pots, drain em, drive away, and reconnect at the new place. Easy. If height is an issue, you can put bags around the buckets and lay the plant sideways, just be extremely careful if you choose to do this, it isnt the best way.



cvbud said:


> how about those STG inserts? does anyone like them or had success with them? what have you found?


STG inserts, for Ebb & Flow systems aka buckets, are garbage. They are too weak in the center, and unfortunately a cool idea just poor design. STG has said they want to make them better but for ever they have not.



cvbud said:


> i hear STG are awesome, and you get the best yields!


Then you watched the STG sponsored Youtube videos.  They suck for Ebb & Grow. Hydroton is the ONLY way to fly in an Ebb & Grow, with perhaps a 1" Rockwool starter cube but that's it!


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## doniawon (Apr 29, 2010)

Then you watched the STG sponsored Youtube videos.  They suck for Ebb & Grow. Hydroton is the ONLY way to fly in an Ebb & Grow, with perhaps a 1" Rockwool starter cube but that's it! [/QUOTE]

i veg in 4" cubes and they do great.. i think i get a tighter mass of roots in the core of the bucket.. was actually thinking of trying 6" cubes.. just be sure to remove the plastic covers.


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## dieselhound (Apr 30, 2010)

I use researchkitty's 1" rockwool cube's for starting out in buckets. The bigger the cubes the more $$$ it costs.

I also do something I hav'nt seen anyone else do. I use rockwoll crouton's (diced rockwool) in the net pots. I've had to many lines get plugged by the hydroton. I do place a 2" layer of hydroton over the crouton's to stop algae growth. I also run 5gal pots. I feel the rockwool holds onto and transfers moisture better than hydroton. I am able to keep floods at 15 min. 5x per day w/ no problem. My plants are loving it too. I've got Casey Jones going right now and they are kick'in ass. Just my two cents.

Good Luck,
-Sticky


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## doniawon (Apr 30, 2010)

the bigger the cubes the more of a head start i can get out of my veg room... 4x4 flood tray with 1000 mh.. i can fit 50+ 4" cubes in there and get them 1.5 ft tall to transfer to my buckets.. saves tons of space.. 

if i wanted to go to 5's would i just need to raise the controller with a brick or somethin??


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## ears (Apr 30, 2010)

i have posted pics on my profile for you to see. i would put them on this post but i dont know how. maybe someone can tell me how.


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## doniawon (Apr 30, 2010)

ears said:


> i have posted pics on my profile for you to see. i would put them on this post but i dont know how. maybe someone can tell me how.


in the quick reply box below.. in the lower right hand corner "Go Advanced".. -hit that.
then 'manage attachments'.. click picture and drag it to the box at the bottom. then submit your reply.


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## ears (Apr 30, 2010)

this is my clone,veg, and two bloom room on a bi-monthly cycle.


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## ears (Apr 30, 2010)

thank you for your help, and what do you think?


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## dieselhound (Apr 30, 2010)

doniawon said:


> the bigger the cubes the more of a head start i can get out of my veg room... 4x4 flood tray with 1000 mh.. i can fit 50+ 4" cubes in there and get them 1.5 ft tall to transfer to my buckets.. saves tons of space..
> 
> if i wanted to go to 5's would i just need to raise the controller with a brick or somethin??


I just use a 1.5" piece of board under controller for first 3 weeks. After that the roots are developed enough to "wick" to top. The croutons help with the uptake too. I pull the board to limit amount of standing water at bottom of buckets after feeding. 

I bought black buckets from the hydro shop for like 6$ ea. Could have saved a couple bucks w/ home depot style but, I've done that and regretted it in the long run. I do use HD buckets for a base so I don't break my back tending to plants. I used the 2 gal. buckets before. Did'nt like the instability or smaller space for root mass.

Good Luck
-Sticky


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## dieselhound (Apr 30, 2010)

ears said:


> thank you for your help, and what do you think?


Looks great ears. You've got it dialed in.


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## doniawon (Apr 30, 2010)

is that the groelf prototype.. the "mothership".. 

dhound. so you think the croutons are better than the clay??? how many bags to fill 6 pots? isnt this very exspensive? are they worth the cost?.. 

how large do you like your plants in the 5 gallon buckets?


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## ears (Apr 30, 2010)

no this is my new location, put a lot of time and money into the mothership. wanted it to be better than my last ark.


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## cvbud (Apr 30, 2010)

i think the growelf seems like a great system. and i dont want to bash. but my windows, sunglasses, dirt biking goggles, and even my welding goggles are alllllll UV safe. but light still gets through them. food grade and UV safe doesnt convince me. i am still a little hesitant. maybe just ask your manufacturer if they can make the same buckets you like in black. just a thought. its your gig. 
all this talk about the grow elf kicking ass, and the CAP blowing nutts, yall are getting me nervous. my CAP seems to be running great. so im happy. 

happy growing!


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## ears (Apr 30, 2010)

cvbud maybe try the controller that is the part of the cap that sucks the rest is nothing. if your controller goes down so do you. trust me. if your going to have 3 systems running 30 to 40 plants last thing you want is your clock freezing up because the gears are off. the relays burning up. or the floats turning into constant on. these are the specific probs i had in a 8 month period. maybe i bitter, and maybe im not. for now im not breaking down. good luck with everything keep me up on your progress


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## ears (Apr 30, 2010)

just thought i would share photos, besides i cant misspell pics


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## ears (Apr 30, 2010)

this is for the above post
the buds are two weeks in bloom
the new plants are cream carmel... fem seeds and that is new to me, never grew fem seeds. i will keep you informed about progress, and if they herm on me. the started as seeds 0n 4-11, that pic was taken on 4-30. the one next to it is the same plant.
and last is my next batch to cycle. just something to look at. i will put more on my profile. i would love feed back on the fem. seeds


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## patlpp (Apr 30, 2010)

ears said:


> this is for the above post
> the buds are two weeks in bloom
> the new plants are cream carmel... fem seeds and that is new to me, never grew fem seeds. i will keep you informed about progress, and if they herm on me. the started as seeds 0n 4-11, that pic was taken on 4-30. the one next to it is the same plant.
> and last is my next batch to cycle. just something to look at. i will put more on my profile. i would love feed back on the fem. seeds


This new RIU version has a Journal that you can invite people to see your grows. That way threads such as "for all cap & ebb grow users" won't get cluttered with off-topic posts.


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## ears (Apr 30, 2010)

thats cool new to all this post stuff, although i am an ebb and flow user so i geuss that i am really not of topic or cluttering up post. but someone needs to police, and sometime we get self elected officials. i do like the red letters. hugs and kisses


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## ears (May 1, 2010)

thanks to the long arm of the law i have started my journal. now we can all sleep at night.


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## patlpp (May 1, 2010)

Sorry bout the red, I guess it sparked a bad memory while you were in school. I sometimes do that to contrast from the quote. I was going tho continue but this is not worth the effort.


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## mrduke (May 1, 2010)

I love the police.....


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## dieselhound (May 1, 2010)

doniawon said:


> dhound. so you think the croutons are better than the clay??? how many bags to fill 6 pots? isnt this very exspensive? are they worth the cost?..
> 
> how large do you like your plants in the 5 gallon buckets?


 
I use net pots within the buckets too. The net pots are'nt as deep as insert buckets. I don't like the insert buckets it came with. I like holes on sides. Also, net pots don't use as much medium. Croutons are about the same price per volume. I know you can wash and reuse hydroton but, 35 bucks per ea. bag (hydroton or croutons) I toss it all afterwards anyway. The large bag of croutons are 2cu. ft.

I like croutons because it does'nt leave residue like hydroton and it's easier to deal with overall.

I like my plants on the larger side. I've got these cool tomato cages w/ grids that are perfect for 5 gal buckets. I just finished running Casey Jones and Blue Dream. Pulled 1lb off 2- Casey's and approx. 12oz. off 3-Blue Dream.


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## doniawon (May 2, 2010)

dieselhound said:


> I use net pots within the buckets too. The net pots are'nt as deep as insert buckets. I don't like the insert buckets it came with. I like holes on sides. Also, net pots don't use as much medium. Croutons are about the same price per volume. I know you can wash and reuse hydroton but, 35 bucks per ea. bag (hydroton or croutons) I toss it all afterwards anyway. The large bag of croutons are 2cu. ft.
> 
> I like croutons because it does'nt leave residue like hydroton and it's easier to deal with overall.
> 
> I like my plants on the larger side. I've got these cool tomato cages w/ grids that are perfect for 5 gal buckets. I just finished running Casey Jones and Blue Dream. Pulled 1lb off 2- Casey's and approx. 12oz. off 3-Blue Dream.


I defo, like your style.. the holes on the side of the netted bkt insers, totally make good sense.. however, i tend to get at least 3 runs with my rock, before obvious buildup problems. which then i toss.
but a fan of the tomato cages, also, for shure. i think im going to have to move on up like g. jefferson.. go with 5 gallons. ur numbers are staggering compared to my 3z to 6z plants in my 2.5 gallon thimbul's


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## ears (May 2, 2010)

is any body using a flop switch? mine seems to work 90% of the time. its that 10% that has made me a slave when everything is working like a swiss watch. i mayjust for go it a get two more 1000 ballasts. i think that the ballasts when the switch happens (12/12 ) they may see that as a serge and trip.


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## OzzBozz (May 2, 2010)

im thinking of going with the CAP ebb n gro system. I just did a run in soil, im going to do one more before i take my first plunge into hydro


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## cvbud (May 2, 2010)

here we go Sure To Grow! 

we shall see what happens next, check it out. Thank you everyone for your incite and guidance. we can now see how these things go. any help, advice, and comments are all welcome. 

*Thread: Sweet Tooth, CAP E&G, STG's, 21 Gun show down, 2nd grow here we go!*


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## ears (May 2, 2010)

OzzBozz said:


> im thinking of going with the CAP ebb n gro system. I just did a run in soil, im going to do one more before i take my first plunge into hydro


 read the thread and check my profile. not sure about the white buckets, but 110 about the growelf controller bucket. feel free to ask anything, im here to help\


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## ears (May 2, 2010)

cvbud did you check my profile?


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## cvbud (May 2, 2010)

ears said:


> cvbud did you check my profile?


i did. it looks great. im really jealous. i would like to have a very similar if not identical set up. although i use a sealed room, i noticed you use vent fans. are you using c02? really cool set up. not sure if you checked it out yet, but i just started a new thread using my E&G with the STG. im excited, but really nervous. i hope they work. im only going to veg for three weeks. so they shouldn't get that big. but we will see. im going to use a net to help with support. but im really not sure if i have my times right. im using 9 cycles at 15min. ive noticed that with 21 buckets at 15 minutes, i dont get an entierly full bucket. and i read that 15 minutes of submerged roots start to die. 

anyway. you are the master, if you want to check out my setup and throw in some advice, i am all ears. we can use my set up as a tester for these STG's. who knows, if it works good, you might like them. 12 minutes to transplant 21 plants was pretty sweet. no cleaning, rinsing, or anything. just plop it in and go. 

let me know what you think!


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## ears (May 3, 2010)

nothing ventured nothing gained. your set up looks good. you said you dont clean the stg? that would make me nervous. as far as watering im on a 6 time 30 min a day schedule and i run at 1800 ppm to 2000 ppm for nutz. i never had salt lock because i rinse 4 cycles of 45gal declorinated water every week, when i change nutz. the rinse is what save my ass!! im not on c02 yet, but will be in a month or two. start a journel now at the beging, so we can have a good record the study. good luck.


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## JeffersonBud (May 4, 2010)

Need some help guys! I am starting off my clones in an ebb and grow with 24 sites. I am cleaning the unit in stages; bleach @5%, then clearex as directed, then water. I am also thinking of using physan 20 for a very deep clean. I am trying to avoid the terrible root slime. I have my hydroton washing in stages as well (bleach @ 5%, clearex, 2-3 water rinses). This should totaly steralize all my medium.
The last time I was running a VERY diluted mix of h202 and Botanicares pro grow + bloom. I think a contributing factor to my plants becoming ill, was the h202 destroying my organics. 

I think I want to transfer my clones into the hydroton medium, and flower. My question is, should I be using beneficial bacteria such as Plantacillin with the system? Will they culture in the medium? Should I plant into rockwool cubes, then into the hydroton (thinking the medium would house the BB)? 
I am basically starting out fresh. Fresh healthy clones, clean and sanitized rom and equipment, and the usual controlled temps and co2 (I am in a micro climate) and clean tap water with 150 ppm set out at least 24 hours with an air stone for good measure. I have always used Botanicares full line (pro grow, bloom, cal-mag, blast off, LK, sweet, bloom enhancer with amazing results) and super thrive, Hygrozyme, and Plantacillin or hydroguard and have never run into a problem. The only thing I did different was added h202.

any follow-up would be great!


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## dieselhound (May 4, 2010)

Hey Ears,

Checked out your setup. Looks sweet!

Do you use microbials or fulvic/humic acids? I found that using these products help w/ nute uptake along with root enhancement. As a side affect, my rez. is kept very clean. I do rez. changes every 14-18 days and could go longer. I drain to waste flush 1 per wk. w/ reverse osmosis water. I like the drain to waste method for flushing (leaching) because I don't have to mess w/ the rez very much.

Keep up the great work my man!


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## JeffersonBud (May 4, 2010)

Let me note above that I am starting in an ez cloner, then thinking of going to my ebb and grow


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## JeffersonBud (May 4, 2010)

I guess I should be asking if any of you use hydro organic ferts like botanicare pro bloom and LK? If you do and are using hydroton as your medium, are you using any beneficial bacteria like plantacillin? How about enzymes such as hygrozyme? Superthrive?


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## cvbud (May 6, 2010)

I dont know what i am doing wrong, but every single day i go to check the ph in my res, its up to 7.2 or higher. i always drop it down to about 5.2 to try and compensate for the high ph residing in the buckets, but i cant keep in under control. my plants seem to be having very slow growth, but i need to know if im doing the right thing? does anyone else have this problem with an ebb and flow?


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## shnkrmn (May 6, 2010)

are you using tap water?


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## cvbud (May 6, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> are you using tap water?



yes. it start at about 120ppms. ph is around 7.8 out of the tap. Techniflora nutrients. first week in veg, running the nutz around 800ppm to start out a little slow.


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## shnkrmn (May 6, 2010)

That water MIGHT be buffering your solution. It doesn't seem that high though. I can't think what else it could be. I recommend you switch to RO and see if that helps.


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## cvbud (May 6, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> That water MIGHT be buffering your solution. It doesn't seem that high though. I can't think what else it could be. I recommend you switch to RO and see if that helps.


what do you mean buffering?


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## shnkrmn (May 6, 2010)

The reason your water has a ppm of 120 coming out of the tap is because of dissolved minerals, including calcium carbonate, which will consistently cause your ph to rise. I'm no water chemistry scientist, but my water is over 300 ppm coming from the tap, with a ph near 8 like yours and it was always impossible to keep the ph down using it. Switching to RO water made a total difference in my ability to control my water.


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## cvbud (May 6, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> The reason your water has a ppm of 120 coming out of the tap is because of dissolved minerals, including calcium carbonate, which will consistently cause your ph to rise. I'm no water chemistry scientist, but my water is over 300 ppm coming from the tap, with a ph near 8 like yours and it was always impossible to keep the ph down using it. Switching to RO water made a total difference in my ability to control my water.


interesting, i had no idea. i was under the impression that once you ph'd your water, you where set. thank you very much for your help. i will look into RO water for sure. i have stayed away because of the amount of water it wastes. but hey, i guess its way worth it in the long run. 
i wonder if their is a way to test the calcium to see if i have high levels. you probably hit it right on the button.


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## shnkrmn (May 6, 2010)

Just ask your municipal water authority. They are usually happy to share water data.

I feel you about the waste water with RO.


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## ears (May 6, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Just ask your municipal water authority. They are usually happy to share water data.
> 
> I feel you about the waste water with RO.


how much will you lower your water at a time? i never drop it more than .5 at a time. my tap is about 220. i set 45 gal. drum aside 24 hours befor i use it with a punp and a big air stone. this works very well it just bubbles out all the bleach and chlorine. not sure what is so bad about lowering the PH to fast but i just dont.


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## IGroWhErwAterflo (May 7, 2010)

Hey guys I have a ?, whAt u guys think about trimming the root
balls in the bucket? Good idea? Bad idea any advice or 
help be appreciate !! Cap ebb and gro 2 gallons buckets


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## shnkrmn (May 7, 2010)

Other than initial adjustment after adding nutes, I usually don't have to adjust more than .4 or .5 at a time. If it gets up to 6.0 I try to knock it down to 5.5 and it ends up slowly rising over 4 or 5 days back to 6. I have no idea if lowering your pH too fast is good or bad. It does seem prudent to take it slow though. I don't let my water 'rest' because it's RO; there's no chlorine left.

How long can you go without adjusting?



ears said:


> how much will you lower your water at a time? i never drop it more than .5 at a time. my tap is about 220. i set 45 gal. drum aside 24 hours befor i use it with a punp and a big air stone. this works very well it just bubbles out all the bleach and chlorine. not sure what is so bad about lowering the PH to fast but i just dont.


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## ears (May 7, 2010)

IGroWhErwAterflo said:


> Hey guys I have a ?, whAt u guys think about trimming the root
> balls in the bucket? Good idea? Bad idea any advice or
> help be appreciate !! Cap ebb and gro 2 gallons buckets


i would love an answer to that to


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## ears (May 7, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Other than initial adjustment after adding nutes, I usually don't have to adjust more than .4 or .5 at a time. If it gets up to 6.0 I try to knock it down to 5.5 and it ends up slowly rising over 4 or 5 days back to 6. I have no idea if lowering your pH too fast is good or bad. It does seem prudent to take it slow though. I don't let my water 'rest' because it's RO; there's no chlorine left.
> 
> How long can you go without adjusting?


the only time i have ever used ro water was an boats. people cant survive on it because there are zero minerals in it. is that why you use ro water?


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## shnkrmn (May 8, 2010)

ears said:


> the only time i have ever used ro water was an boats. people cant survive on it because there are zero minerals in it. is that why you use ro water?


lol. I use RO water because my tap water is very, very hard, about 380ppm coming out of the tap with a ph of 7.8. It's impossible to grow with that, at least it is for me. So, yes, that's why I use it; zero minerals except for what I put in.


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## ears (May 8, 2010)

shnkrmn
i really look forward to your comments, you seem to not be full of shit thanks for your input.


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## rocklee420 (May 8, 2010)

You know I've been toying with the idea of adding some drip rings to this system. This would put that little bit of standing water to use... maybe i'd even raise the controller a little. If this has already been mentioned w/e.. but seems like a great idea to me. As for trimming roots, I've never been big on it unless they are dead. I run hygrozyme with this system and highly recommend it.


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## researchkitty (May 8, 2010)

50ppm tap water here, so no R/O for me. pH rises about 0.2 --> 0.3 per day, and the system in a 55 gallon reservoir at 80% full capacity utilizes about 5-7 gallons of water per day for 18 pots and 2000w of lights. Hope that helps!


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## shnkrmn (May 9, 2010)

I am just another pilgrim seeking wisdom, but thank you, Ears. I think this thread has a number of knowledgeable contributors; I've learned quite a few things here.



ears said:


> shnkrmn
> i really look forward to your comments, you seem to not be full of shit thanks for your input.


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## BeginnersLuck (May 10, 2010)

cvbud said:


> interesting, i had no idea. i was under the impression that once you ph'd your water, you where set. thank you very much for your help. i will look into RO water for sure. i have stayed away because of the amount of water it wastes. but hey, i guess its way worth it in the long run.
> i wonder if their is a way to test the calcium to see if i have high levels. you probably hit it right on the button.


I am a newb and am having success with my first grow. I am using the e&g and I started out using distilled water. PH was high 7s. Then tried tap ppms low 200s. I finally got success using RO water. I buy it from walmart until I get a filter installed. My grocery store sells it for 30C/gal if you bring your own containers.. To much a pain. Anyways the RO water is PERFECT. Mine has a ph in HIGH 4s like 4.9. I I get this to about 5.3-5.5 with just 1-5 ml YES ml total of ph UP. and set the tank and forget it til I have to add water back cause the ladies are drinking alot. I keep the tank fairly the same level so adding back a gallon or two a day. The ph goes like 5.3 5.6 5.8 5.95 6.05 over the course of a few days. It seems so perfect to me. I add back my gal or two with 0-4 ml of ph DOWN. not per gal total 0-4. Seems to work perfect for me. Love RO water. 


good luck BL


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## BeginnersLuck (May 10, 2010)

rocklee420 said:


> You know I've been toying with the idea of adding some drip rings to this system. This would put that little bit of standing water to use... maybe i'd even raise the controller a little. If this has already been mentioned w/e.. but seems like a great idea to me. As for trimming roots, I've never been big on it unless they are dead. I run hygrozyme with this system and highly recommend it.


I have thought about keeping the water in the buckets and adding a bubble into each of them.


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## cvbud (May 10, 2010)

BeginnersLuck said:


> I am a newb and am having success with my first grow. I am using the e&g and I started out using distilled water. PH was high 7s. Then tried tap ppms low 200s. I finally got success using RO water. I buy it from walmart until I get a filter installed. My grocery store sells it for 30C/gal if you bring your own containers.. To much a pain. Anyways the RO water is PERFECT. Mine has a ph in HIGH 4s like 4.9. I I get this to about 5.3-5.5 with just 1-5 ml YES ml total of ph UP. and set the tank and forget it til I have to add water back cause the ladies are drinking alot. I keep the tank fairly the same level so adding back a gallon or two a day. The ph goes like 5.3 5.6 5.8 5.95 6.05 over the course of a few days. It seems so perfect to me. I add back my gal or two with 0-4 ml of ph DOWN. not per gal total 0-4. Seems to work perfect for me. Love RO water.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


good to know. thanks for you help bro. i think thats the direction i have decided. i just need to drain everything, cycle it a few times. and refil with RO. 
we shall see.


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## rocklee420 (May 11, 2010)

BeginnersLuck said:


> I have thought about keeping the water in the buckets and adding a bubble into each of them.


Yea next grow I might try it as a dwc with net pot lids, just set it to flood forever. I want a bit more active system... either that or the drip rings and aerate the res. I'm gonna play with it and see if I can't get a bit closer to a gram a watt.


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## shnkrmn (May 11, 2010)

rocklee420 said:


> Yea next grow I might try it as a dwc with net pot lids, just set it to flood forever. I want a bit more active system... either that or the drip rings and aerate the res. I'm gonna play with it and see if I can't get a bit closer to a gram a watt.


I think you would want to set it for 15 mins flood and 15 mins drain. Interesting idea.


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## rocklee420 (May 11, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> I think you would want to set it for 15 mins flood and 15 mins drain. Interesting idea.


I'd aerate each bucket and keep it flooded if I went this route, then drain it when I want to change it. I've noticed the pumps will kick on randomly to keep it flooded evenly.


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## bigbacon2 (May 12, 2010)

Hopefully someone can answer this question for me....
I have a cap ebb and grow system about 14 days into Veg....I picked up the insert bucket on a couple of them and there are major roots coming out of the bottom.. Like 8 inches out of the bottom already.. It seems as they are sitting in a little bit of water.. IS it ok to let them be or should i trim them...Anyone have any issues with this? Thank you ...


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## rocklee420 (May 12, 2010)

Have had plenty of issues with this, I'd leave em be unless the unit is having trouble flooding. As long as you flood every so often that little bit of water should be pretty oxygenated really. The roots can grow up into the hoses of the unit which might require action if your bucket won't flood. My two cents, peace.


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## BeginnersLuck (May 12, 2010)

bigbacon2 said:


> Hopefully someone can answer this question for me....
> I have a cap ebb and grow system about 14 days into Veg....I picked up the insert bucket on a couple of them and there are major roots coming out of the bottom.. Like 8 inches out of the bottom already.. It seems as they are sitting in a little bit of water.. IS it ok to let them be or should i trim them...Anyone have any issues with this? Thank you ...


Trim what your roots? If thats the question hell no I wouldnt. I dont have alot of experience but I wouldnt ever trim the roots. When your grow is done your bottom bucket will have alot of root base in there. 

Some growers put their pots on raised objects like wood or insulation, pans, ect. This allows the buckets to drain. I leave my water in there seems to not be an issue and I have read that when people raise their pots the roots sometimes go into the hosing caiusing some issues. My 2 pennies

Good luck 

BL


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## bigbacon2 (May 12, 2010)

What do you do if the roots start to grown into the lines?


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## BeginnersLuck (May 12, 2010)

bigbacon2 said:


> What do you do if the roots start to grown into the lines?


I dont have this problem however if I did I guess pulling them back and clearing the holes would be required. I would be real gentle though. thats just my 2 pennies

bl


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## ears (May 12, 2010)

some pics for ebb and grow "growelf" systems


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## crackerboy (May 12, 2010)

bigbacon2 said:


> What do you do if the roots start to grown into the lines?



You can trim the roots with no ill results. I have done this many times. Also to the fellow that wants to use the system as a DWC, Just make sure that you put some air into the buckets. Lots of air. good luck.


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## ears (May 13, 2010)

has anybody added sugar to the last two weeks of bloom to increase bud weight and size? i have read a little about it and found that it works on paper, but i dont know anybody that i doing it right now.


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## cvbud (May 13, 2010)

ears said:


> has anybody added sugar to the last two weeks of bloom to increase bud weight and size? i have read a little about it and found that it works on paper, but i dont know anybody that i doing it right now.


the bible talks about it. but they dont go into specifics. they just show pictures.


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## ears (May 13, 2010)

cvbud
yah, i need some real info. how is your grow going?


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## boxing119 (May 14, 2010)

Hey guys i know its off topic but i have a really bad mite problem i have used Neem Oil once but i feel like my plants did not like it, is there any mite control that i can add to the rez, or does it all have to be foiler fed to the plants, any helps will be greatly appericated


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## cvbud (May 14, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> Hey guys i know its off topic but i have a really bad mite problem i have used Neem Oil once but i feel like my plants did not like it, is there any mite control that i can add to the rez, or does it all have to be foiler fed to the plants, any helps will be greatly appericated


 lady bugs dude. get yourself a handful of lady bugs at the lady bug farm.


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## ears (May 14, 2010)

boxing119

lady bugs are good. but you should use something to help fight off bugs like rhino skin. i would look at why you got them in the first place. did you bring someone over and show them your grow? this is the number one cause. did you go somewhere? dispensary, a grow, maybe a grow store. i never go in my grow with out changing my clothes! never! by avoiding these no no's i have never "knock on wood" had any problems wiyh mites or any other bug. plus you should be filtering all fresh air. i use hepa filters that will filter even dust mites. your grow should be clean, and i dont mean dusted. clean like a hospital. if you have mites in bloom do not fog. and if not i bloom you can bomb, with the lights off and filter fans off. remember 1 mite can lay 10,000 eggs! and in three days those eggs will hatch. and those 10,000 mites will lay 10,000 eggs each. so when you bomb you need to bomb 3 or maybe 4 cycles at three day intervals. sorry for my spelling, but my plants dont mind. good luck


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## ears (May 14, 2010)

anybody...... still looking for info on sugar.


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## rocklee420 (May 15, 2010)

I've added mollasses, basically sugar to my standard bloom nutes starting 3 weeks from havest until I start flushing. I run a 1/2 strength nute mix, gravity, and mollasses. Overall I'd say it works, my buds seem to swell up pretty good. As for what kind of mollasses, make sure you get the unsulphured kind (contains no additives). Anyway long story short, It's cheap... and if it works at all it's worth the couple bucks a run.


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## dtp5150 (May 15, 2010)

ears: start your OWN thread...totally off topic dude...?

anyways, I just sent in my controller bucket to CAP yesterday for a warranty replacement. Hopefully I get it back next week. ( No Power was being sent to the fill pump, even though the light was on )

YES these buckets break too! I had a crack in a grow bucket and I had to suck up 15 gallons of water off my upstairs carpet.

I do not recommend moving things around once you get the plants in there! Water will be everywhere! You will have nightmares of water.


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## rocklee420 (May 15, 2010)

I don't know if anyone has posted this or not, but these things work great for filling/draining your res. http://www.petco.com/product/108265/Aqueon-Aquarium-Water-Changer.aspx?CoreCat=certona-_-productdetail_2-_-Aqueon%20Aquarium%20Water%20Changer-108265


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## dtp5150 (May 15, 2010)

to empty the res, I attach a hose to the end of the fill pump hose, plug the pump directly to a socket, and pump it to waste

filling it up is easy with a hose too, but gotta take the pump out of the controller bucket


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## ears (May 15, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> ears: start your OWN thread...totally off topic dude...?
> 
> anyways, I just sent in my controller bucket to CAP yesterday for a warranty replacement. Hopefully I get it back next week. ( No Power was being sent to the fill pump, even though the light was on )
> 
> ...


you should look into the growelf controler you can plug it is to your cap system in a few min. i have replaced all my cap brains as they failed with growelf. you can go to my journal and see them i full effect. the guys at growelf are really good at responding to any needs you may have. i know a few people using them now one is a friend of mine that has 9000sqft. and he has been repacing his caps with growelf. he has.. not sure 6, or 7 in use now, and he loves them too.
maybe some one can tell me how to start a thread, im to stupid to do it by my self.. thanks


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## dtp5150 (May 16, 2010)

ears: to post your own thread, go to a link like this one:
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/

then in the upper left hand corner, there is a green + Post New Thread link, and thats how you make a thread. but make sure you post new thread under the correct category. so just navigate to the correct category and click that button.

Thanks also for the tip of the growelf controller. I bought DIY kit for like $80 too and I'll try and build one myself as backup first most likely, but sure would like more of these.

GrowElf looks like quality to me!


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## ears (May 17, 2010)

dtp5150

thanks for the heads up


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## Str8Dank (May 17, 2010)

rocklee420 said:


> I don't know if anyone has posted this or not, but these things work great for filling/draining your res. http://www.petco.com/product/108265/Aqueon-Aquarium-Water-Changer.aspx?CoreCat=certona-_-productdetail_2-_-Aqueon%20Aquarium%20Water%20Changer-108265


for $20 more you can get one of these.....



i can empty my res in about 5 min and refill it from my ro res in another 5 min. paint mixer tip on a power drill and in 20 min i can drain, fill, add all parts of nutes one at a time and then ph.....


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## dtp5150 (May 19, 2010)

i just got back my controller bucket. CAP cleaned it up real nice ( or its a whole new bucket ).

They also gave me two brand new pumps! I can use them if one fails or on my DIY controller bucket ( bought two kits http://www.aquahub.com/store/product39.html )

Thank you CAP!

From a note on the box they had to repair a timer, a float, and something else. Yikes.


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## morrisgreenberg (May 19, 2010)

hey DTP, hows that aquahub unit working for you? that looks like a perfect replacement for the price, better than the $300 CAP charges, besides i think if you went out an got all the parts individually it would be more expensive. did you find it difficult to wire up? with that unit and some buckets you can build a good looking unit for less than half of what cap charges, and i got my CAP systems for $399


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## COgrow (May 21, 2010)

I'm about to chop after my first grow with the CAP system, check out my journal and let me know what you think.


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## dtp5150 (May 22, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> hey DTP, hows that aquahub unit working for you? that looks like a perfect replacement for the price, better than the $300 CAP charges, besides i think if you went out an got all the parts individually it would be more expensive. did you find it difficult to wire up? with that unit and some buckets you can build a good looking unit for less than half of what cap charges, and i got my CAP systems for $399



i got my system for around that price. I think it was an old model. I notice the new controller they sent me added a delay or something, so that when the float switches are tripped, it takes a while for the pumps to turn on ( I think this is to avoid constant on/off and like if the controller water is sloshed it wont keep turning on the pump )


i havent built the aquahub kit yet but it looks like it will take around a day to make.


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## 2triple0ss (May 22, 2010)

I've done two grows with this system. There is a lot of pros and cons. LOTS. One thing I learned was to just put enough water to fill your buckets then around 5 gallons in the res. Anymore is just a waste of RO water and nutes. (but make sure to keep an eye on it, you don't want ur pump sucking air) I had 24 buckets, ran it 30 mins 4 times a day. NOTE: When you flush your res remember there's still a lot of water in the buckets and lines so adjust your PH and PPM after running the system.


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## morrisgreenberg (May 23, 2010)

2triple0ss said:


> I've done two grows with this system. There is a lot of pros and cons. LOTS. One thing I learned was to just put enough water to fill your buckets then around 5 gallons in the res. Anymore is just a waste of RO water and nutes. (but make sure to keep an eye on it, you don't want ur pump sucking air) I had 24 buckets, ran it 30 mins 4 times a day. NOTE: When you flush your res remember there's still a lot of water in the buckets and lines so adjust your PH and PPM after running the system.


i disagree, you would want to fill the tank as high as you can, more water means stable PH stable PPM and stays cooler better. espexially with a 24 site system theres tons of water being taking up by plants that you will get Violent swings in your water readings


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## cvbud (May 23, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> i disagree, you would want to fill the tank as high as you can, more water means stable PH stable PPM and stays cooler better. espexially with a 24 site system theres tons of water being taking up by plants that you will get Violent swings in your water readings


I agree with your disagree. I tried 30 gallons for a 21 site system. i was PH down twice a day just to keep up. once i switched to RO, and filled the entire thing, it calmed down a ton.


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## researchkitty (May 23, 2010)

cvbud said:


> I agree with your disagree. I tried 30 gallons for a 21 site system. i was PH down twice a day just to keep up. once i switched to RO, and filled the entire thing, it calmed down a ton.


I agree with your agree with his disagree.  18 plant site now, I fill 55 gallons on the res. In week 6 right now of flowering, and the plants drink probably 5 gallons of water every day. I top off the res every few days and add nutrients once a week. Welcome to the Lucas Formula. 

On a side note, when the system is brand new and empty, it will hold about 1/8th gallon per bucket in each bucket, and then as much water as your hoses are long all the time. Nothing terrible to worry about. Off of one 55 gallon reservoir with 2.5 gallon buckets as mine is, I think your safe with about 25 plants max. More than that and you'll be out of water often.


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## xceptional (May 23, 2010)

i agree with the disagrees as well lol.

it is POINTLESS to use just over what it takes to fill your buckets even if you flush weekly (and i do faithfully) because then you just have to add back daily! IDK what your system runs like but my girls can drink up over 5 gal a day. fill it up to the top and when it gets so low that it is getting close to not being able to fill your buckets without running out add back RO water (and nutes if you prefer). this creates ZERO waste. 

55 gallons 
drinking 5 gal a day
in 7 days they go through 35 gallons. why not just put all that in on day one instead of incrementally having to do it daily? more buffer for ph. more stabilized PH, better mixed nutes (if you have air running in your res) it just makes sense on every level. 

even if your plants only drank 3 gal a day you are still talking about 21 gallons being sucked up per 7 days so filling it up to 50 means you would have 26 still in res when ready to flush which is just enough to fill up the buckets if you are running a good amount and have extra hose and a res outside of the room (and you should). 

the intent was there but it's a bad idea bro switch up your process.


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## BeginnersLuck (May 25, 2010)

I also tend to disagree with the statement of filling the res with JUST an extra 5 gallons. I like to fill my 30 pot system with at least 40 gallons. This like the others have posted keeps the levels more stable.


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## JeffersonBud (May 25, 2010)

I have been growing for 3 years using a drip slab system with rockwool slabs, PBP full line, and Beneficial bacteria (plantacillin) with no problems.

I recently moved and acquired new equipment. My room is a micro climate with co2. I am running liquid cooled lights and a small window ac unit to keep the temps at 75 during the day and 65 at night. The mechanics and equipment of the room seem to be working great. I have included pictures of the room and of the largest clone.

This is the first time using an ebb and grow. It has 24 sites placed in 3 circles of 8 around each light. I am vertical with 3 1000k's)

I stated off my clones in an ez cloner and rooted all 30 in 7 days. With the first sign of roots, I added my bennies and superthrive. The roots blew up for a week, and then I added a light dose of Botanicare ferts. They looked great, and continued to blow up over the next week. I transplanted four days ago into my pre-washed hydroton and all seemed well. I mixed up some PBP, half strength bennies, superthrive, and ph to 5.8. and run the system every three hours for 15 minutes. After a few days my ph rose along with my ppms. The res smelled bad and white floaties were in it. It is the beginning of a bacteria infestation.

I am noticing how difficult it is to grow with hydro organics with hydroton as the medium. Since I have no rockwool and nothing for the bennies to culture to in the main reservoir, I think the bad bacteria is taking over the main reservoir, but since the bennies have cultured in the root zone, I believe they have not burdened the plants with rot yet. Since I can't run h202 with PBP, I switched it out for the BC that came with the unit.
Today, I refilled my reservoir with 45 gallons of dechlorinated 100ppm tap water, with only 25 ppms total of the BC line (no carbs) dutch master zone, and 1 tsp of h202 basically for a flush. I am sure this is going to kill all the bennies in the root zone of the plants, but will trade that for no bad bacteria any day! I am trading my wonderful hydroorganic ferts for chemical ferts to help ward off the bad stuff.

Any input would be awesome. Has anyone ever had this problem?


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## boxing119 (May 25, 2010)

Has any one ran two rez's to the same grow, i got a 24 site set up the are in the first week of flower but are pretty big considering i vegged for 6 weeks and the drink a ton of water... i have an extra rez im currently not using and i was ondering if i could run them both, just get a plug for the other pump and connect it with the other one, would this work?


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## JeffersonBud (May 25, 2010)

Anyone else running into this problem of mine? Do they use zone? What Do most of you E&G & hydroton users with reservoir temps of 72-76 use chemical ferts and h202 and not Hydro Organic ferts? This stuff is kinda beating me up and wan't my plants to do well so once again, any help would be great for a new E&G user!!!


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## patlpp (May 25, 2010)

JeffersonBud said:


> Anyone else running into this problem of mine? Do they use zone? What Do most of you E&G & hydroton users with reservoir temps of 72-76 use chemical ferts and h202 and not Hydro Organic ferts? This stuff is kinda beating me up and wan't my plants to do well so once again, any help would be great for a new E&G user!!!


I had onset of root rot and here is what I did: Drained system. Cleaned Res and pipes with chlorox. I got a wide bucket and filled it to 3 gallons of cool (65F) RO water with 5ml/Gal H2O2 and Clearex (forgot the dose) and dipped each plant individually in this bucket for 15 minutes each, changing the water out every 3 buckets or so. I than filled the res with Max concentration of ZONE (4ml / gal) Non-RO and ran through 5 normal cycles. Than I dumped the water, to include as much of the residual water remaining in the buckets (raising them). I than filled the res with RO and went 50% nutes for 3 days (with normal dose of Zone, 1ml/Gal )than upped to 100% (EC 2). It worked fine. Maybe I went too gung-ho but it worked. My res temps were 73 or so. The Zone has chlorine in it which is the real killer of the bad-guys and the good guys !! Like you said Dump the Hygrozyme, it's for soil. go 100% chemical in rock. I thought it did wonders for my grow at first but what really was going on is the Zone is keeping the bad guys dead so roots are healthy and multiply. 

With the maint level of ZONE, you should be able to tolorate higher res temps. An airstone also can increase the oxygen levels somewhat. I don't use H2O2 because of the Zone, it seems rather redundant for pathogens. H2O2 will increase your DO , but it is short lived. Zone or Clorox will keep the pathogens at bay even in higher temps. The only down side for some is that it is for chem grows only. I never did Co2 but I heard that you want a higher temperature in the room to facilitate co2 uptake. Good luck, I know it's alot of work.

Edit: The reason I dipped individually was so I could complety submerge ALL the rock.


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## JeffersonBud (May 25, 2010)

patlpp said:


> I had onset of root rot and here is what I did: Drained system. Cleaned Res and pipes with chlorox. I got a wide bucket and filled it to 3 gallons of cool (65F) RO water with 5ml/Gal H2O2 and Clearex (forgot the dose) and dipped each plant individually in this bucket for 15 minutes each, changing the water out every 3 buckets or so. I than filled the res with Max concentration of ZONE (4ml / gal) Non-RO and ran through 5 normal cycles. Than I dumped the water, to include as much of the residual water remaining in the buckets (raising them). I than filled the res with RO and went 50% nutes for 3 days (with normal dose of Zone, 1ml/Gal )than upped to 100% (EC 2). It worked fine. Maybe I went too gung-ho but it worked. My res temps were 73 or so. The Zone has chlorine in it which is the real killer of the bad-guys and the good guys !! Like you said Dump the Hygrozyme, it's for soil. go 100% chemical in rock. I thought it did wonders for my grow at first but what really was going on is the Zone is keeping the bad guys dead so roots are healthy and multiply.
> 
> With the maint level of ZONE, you should be able to tolorate higher res temps. An airstone also can increase the oxygen levels somewhat. I don't use H2O2 because of the Zone, it seems rather redundant for pathogens. H2O2 will increase your DO , but it is short lived. Zone or Clorox will keep the pathogens at bay even in higher temps. The only down side for some is that it is for chem grows only. I never did Co2 but I heard that you want a higher temperature in the room to facilitate co2 uptake. Good luck, I know it's alot of work.
> 
> Edit: The reason I dipped individually was so I could complety submerge ALL the rock.





Thanks for the reply patpp! 
because my buckets were on shims I just lowered my controller bucket to empty most of the old solution back, then raised it to submerge the rocks. After the first cycle, I drained the reservoir and added fresh water and a half dosage of zone then ph to 5.8 It should flush for the last cycles of the day and I will drain the main res. again and add a half dosage of zone and a light dose of ferts. I think this should get the plants back to where they should be. Oh, and yes I do have 2 air stones in my res.
I have been trying to scour the internet for an ebb and grow with rocks and using zone for a bit so thanks again for the reassurance. Plantacillin is a great beneficial bacteria, but if your res goes beyond 68, then you should be using h202 or a product like zone with a chemical based fert. Hydro organics and even beneficial bacteria with a higher res temp don't work! 
I do have Physan 20 if things get ugly, but i think the zone wash will be great.
This is the first time I am using another fert line and a chemical one at that. Botanicare is a great fert. Until i get another chiller, I will be using chemical ones though.

As for the co2 thing, I need to supplement co2 into my room because it is sealed with no intake or exhaust. Basically with no loud fans to pass air and no fans to cool the lights, besides the whisper of a few occulting fans and quite blow of a good window ac unit, the room is virtually silent both inside and out.

thanks again!


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## patlpp (May 25, 2010)

Sure thing JBUD. If you haven't already, you should lookup Fatman7574 and go thru his posts...excellent resource, should be right up your alley. He explains the chlorine thing.


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## Humboldt14 (May 26, 2010)

can your PH in your rez. with a flood and drain table fluxuate a little example- 5.5 to 6.0 with out hurting the plants?


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## BeginnersLuck (May 27, 2010)

Humboldt14 said:


> can your PH in your rez. with a flood and drain table fluxuate a little example- 5.5 to 6.0 with out hurting the plants?


Humboldt this is ideal.. Different minerals and nutes get absorbed at different PH levels. During veg I like mine 5.3-6 and flowering 5.7-6.2.


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## Humboldt14 (May 27, 2010)

BeginnersLuck said:


> Humboldt this is ideal.. Different minerals and nutes get absorbed at different PH levels. During veg I like mine 5.3-6 and flowering 5.7-6.2.


thanks man. so that means a little flux is good then?


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## BeginnersLuck (May 27, 2010)

Humboldt14 said:


> thanks man. so that means a little flux is good then?


Yes thats what that means.. I use RO water and that has a PH of about 4.9. RO water does not have buffers in it so any PH adjuster will do alot. I usually add just a couple ml of PH up and down to stableize it. I let it drift upwards as they drink and eat the nutes. Then I adjust it back down as I add water.. Little is more so dont chase it let it fluctuate... 5.5-6.5 is the rule; like I said I go 5.3-6.3 ish. I am new but I am having great results.


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## researchkitty (May 27, 2010)

The fluctuation in pH is good. Your pH should rise as plants drink the water and nutrients. Your ppm should lower as well. If it isnt, the plants arent drinking to full capacity. That's why you top of the res a few times as week, and add nutrients only after you've replaced about 20-25% of the water, or once weekly. I've gone 11 weeks now on the same reservoir without the need to flush and fill it. After the current crop is done in about 2 weeks, then it'll be a full drain and scrub and a FloraKleen flush when the pots are empty. Easy as that!


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## Humboldt14 (May 27, 2010)

thanks to both of you. I have been obsesing over keeping it exactly 5.5. this realy helped me alot.


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## fat corey187 (May 27, 2010)

MY STEM ON MY 3 or 4 week plant broke!!! I PROPED IT UP WITH SOMEORE SOIL AND I WANNA KNOW IF IT WILL BE OKAY OR HOW I CAN FIX IT!!!!


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## Humboldt14 (May 27, 2010)

fat corey187 said:


> MY STEM ON MY 3 or 4 week plant broke!!! I PROPED IT UP WITH SOMEORE SOIL AND I WANNA KNOW IF IT WILL BE OKAY OR HOW I CAN FIX IT!!!!


that happend to 2 of my plants this past week due to the fan. both plants survived. stick a stick that is strong enouph in the soil up against the stem and tie a string around it to hold it up and cross your fingers. but if the stem did not seperate and just fell over you will be fine.


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## dieselhound (May 31, 2010)

Duct tape!!


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## Big Fatty (Jun 7, 2010)

Hey all, I have a question about the ebb & gro... My buddy has a 24 site ebbngro and just transplanted yesterday. The clones were left in the cloner a lot longer than anticipated and their roots are about 6-10" long. He started the cloner on 1/4 strength nutes about a week ago. He is using H&G Aqua Flakes nutes, Roots Excel, and SM-90. Now his res is 50 gal, so for the Aqua Flakes he used 75ml (1/4 strength would be 68.75ml) so just over 1/4 strength nutes. 60-70ml (wasn't exact) of Roots Excel, and 100ml of SM-90 (2ml/gal). Now before transplanting and after ph-down'ing quite a bit the TDS was 200. Now after the transplant the TDS is 240. Oh, and the water is RO with a tds of 11 and ph of 6.2 . The room runs quite warm @ 80f and the Res @ 78f, now I think the meter may be reading a little high it's just one of those cheap walmart thermometer/hygrometer with a probe was $6 now they doubled the price to $12. So my guess is that the room is about 78f and the res is about 74-75f. These temps were taken about four hours after the lights turned off and it is a hot day. Lights run from around 6pm to 11am.


First question is about the TDS... It seems from what I read that my TDS is way lower than others at this stage. Is this normal?
Second question, Should he be feeding at a higher rate? The clones are quite a bit older than most in this stage, this is why I ask.
Third question, should I be worried about the temp much? The heat is my main concern for running the SM-90, and to keep bugs out.

Thanks to all of you.


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## dieselhound (Jun 8, 2010)

I would start feeding growth formula.

Temp. in the rez. is too high. You need it no higher than 73. I keep mine at 67.
Room temp. is ok.

I don't know about TDS. I don't use a meter.

Good Luck!!!


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## fluffygrrrl (Jun 10, 2010)

cvbud said:


> I dont know what i am doing wrong, but every single day i go to check the ph in my res, its up to 7.2 or higher. i always drop it down to about 5.2 to try and compensate for the high ph residing in the buckets, but i cant keep in under control. my plants seem to be having very slow growth, but i need to know if im doing the right thing? does anyone else have this problem with an ebb and flow?


I know what you are going through. My tap is 7.9 and I don't use r/o. I was using the nutes that came with the ebb/gro system and had the same problems as you..but switched nutes. I now use the 3 part General Hydroponics nutes and I rarely have to ph down anymore. They really keep the ph stabilized. I'm sold on GH products.


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## fluffygrrrl (Jun 10, 2010)

I went to a going out of business sale and bought a lot of 5 gallon black buckets. (around 200). They also came with 500 plant stands that raise pots 1" off the floor. I figured I would add some pots to my ebb n gro system as I only have 15 of the original 2 gallon pots. Does anyone know if I can use 5 gallon pots along with the 2 gal pots in the same system? It would seem like you could, but I just want to be sure before I try to do this. The pots fit inside each other similar to the system, 
If anyone has done a diy setup like this, do you have a link on what I should use to make the holes? Or does anyone have a link to diy an entire setup? I might as well do something with all of these pots I bought.


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## Big Fatty (Jun 10, 2010)

Before I get into this let me just say, Make sure you are not using PH down that has "citric acid" as it's only listed ingredient! GH ph down is phosphic acid+citric acid+ some other stuff... Pro PH down is strait phosphoric acid. Earth Juice PH "Crystals" (looks like sugar) is strait citric and citric acid will only drop the ph moment, then right back up way high again . I just mention it because it sounds like what you are experiencing.

Hey there I'm not sure if you know this allready but if you dont here goes: The PH in the res has a relationship with the TDS levels. 

As you probably know... if the levels are low, you need less ph down. The higher the TDS the more ph down you need. This is because there are more salts in the water and they all have their own ph levels and buffering compacities. So when you do a new batch of nutrient solution the amount of ph down is alot higher than you must add towards the end. In the end of the batch we have a higher TDS do to normal salt build up or addbacks with nutes of other additives.

Now this is the relationship throughout the solution. Almost every element in your nutrients/additives/tap water influence your PH. So when the TDS is low these elements can reak havok on your PH. If possible add some Pro-tekt/Silicon Blast (silicon), raise the nute level (if plants can handle it, be very carefull!), anything that can raise the TDS a bit will help stablize the PH.

Off the subject a bit, 

Using sm-90.. great all around product, prevents and treats root rot, keeps the res/buckets/hoses clean, improves nutrient uptake, bugs don't like it... It has a high ph level, so it will drive the ph up some, mostly over the first day. This scares people into not using it. However this will subside and even though is doesn't raise your TDS much, I highly recomend it. 

A side note on SM-90 that is not published online that I know about... SM-90 will reverse root rot, however, while this is happening the proccess causes the PH to rise quite a bit for the duration but will stop climbing so much once the brown crap is gone. Just keep adjusting accordingly. 

(This may be basic knowledge for most, but I feel I should post this info for it may just be that god-send that someone is searching for. Let me know if this helps you)


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## Big Fatty (Jun 11, 2010)

*fluffygrrrl: *Yes you can use buckets of different sizes in one system... just use common sense about the fill/drain levels in the larger buckets in relation to the smaller ones... There was once a system with the two gallon buckets and some 3.5 gallon buckets, the larger ones had to be tilted and lower than the others so that the fill and drain levels would be sufficient. I used a two 90's in a bucket to form an U coming from the bottom of the bucket, out the side, and down into the feed line. If you are not aware of this practice look up "bato buckets", it's a top drip system; anyways, this causes the bucket to drain almost all the water from the bucket (the idea is to get the end of the fitting as low in the bucket as you can without touching the bottom).


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## dogerroger (Jun 11, 2010)

I just moved from soil over to the EBB system this go around, and it seems like its doing okay. Out of 12 plants I had 6 runts, which I figured out that I had my feed schedule backwards.


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## sharl (Jun 14, 2010)

i got questions about this system. dont want to type a bunch until i have someone to talk to. some experienced growers? i really appreciate any response. thanks


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## thelotuseed (Jun 14, 2010)

Need some good advice guys, badly.

I dont know what to make of my plant problems. I've got two varieties going, 6 grand daddys, and 6 mazaars. The grandaddys are showing some serious leaf cupping, and mazaars arnt, but are a bit dark. The leaves feel a little dry and brittle, but dont have any twisting, only a little on the mazaars. They are six weeks into flowering, and i'm worried the bud growth is underdeveloped at this point. 

As well i've got a PM problem that i've been trying to stay on top of with baking soda spray, but its not that effective. I've got plenty of ventilation, but the Relative humidity ranges from 46-68 on any given day. The temperature aswell ranges from 60-80 on any given day. Should i have a dehumidifier going? 

As for the leaf cupping i thought it was an over nitrogen problem but now i'm not sure. I want to think its an overfertelization, but i'm not sure. I'm feeding only twice a day. I'm running the Lucas formula with R/O water, but have recently been cutting back on the micro to cut back on nitrogen. I dont think its been helping all that much and i need to figure out what to do with nutes. The PH consistently stays in the 5.8 range, and i have seldom needed to adjust with ph down or up. I keep the PPM at 1300, using TDS meter that converts a .7 EC. I top off the rez every day with new R/O water and nutes. The plants seem to use about 3 gallons a day. I keep the rez at 50 gallons of water. Not sure on the rez temp, but i dont think its too cold or too hot, i have to get a thermometer. 

The plants are producing too many dead leaves on the bottom i think. On some of the grandaddies the larger fan leaves have recently been turning lighter green and some of the smaller ones haven fallen off when i lightly pull on them. I included a pic of some of the leaves that feel off from yesterday, today i got the same amount with some more completely dead leaves. The stems have a reddish color. I think the PM might be contributing to death? 

Also, the roots arent really going through the holes at the bottom of the buckets all that much, just some are dangling down about 3-4 inches. Is this a problem? 

I have a 1000 wat hps about 3 feet above the plants. One of the plants looks really stretched, i included a picture. Should i add another light, or is my 1000 wat good enough for this many plants and size. The mazaars about 3-4 feet tall and 2-3 feet wide. 

What should i do? Can i add a different or more nute complex to the rez, or do i need to flush all together? Refilling with new water is a bitch, so if i can get away with adding more nutes then that would be great. 

Also should i add any hydrogen peroxide to help oxegenate. What about Cal Mag??

Need help, thanks for any solid advice!!


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## morrisgreenberg (Jun 16, 2010)

im sorry bro but it looks like you jumped in feet first without going over everything, water temp is a mystery? thats not cool, are those Sure to grow insert your using? if so make this your last grow with them as i have known many users of this product across multple forums that have nothing but MAJOR problems, all of them usually point to some kind of nutrient problem, overwatering and you name it. the baking soda method only works as a stop gap for a couple of days until you get some kind of real protection for PM, yes get a dehumidifier, even if it keeps RH low i am sure you would rather have RH in the 30's rather than the 60's, in a couple of weeks when you have larger buds the RH will go much higher. now i know you said res changes are a bitch and they are, unless you have an extra pump laying around, but if you have only been topping off and not changing the res out completly then this could be one of your problems. for a trouble free grow flush with plain water once a month for 2 days. from the pictures it seems like the problems you have are exactly like what i have seen from every STG user. your plants defintly have plenty of Nitrogen as they are dark almost blue. i would suggest using a spray called serenade, it is buscillis subtillus, this is very good for PM, i also used in rotation a sulfer spray, but after your 3rd week of flowering you cannot spray anymore, you will need a sulfur burner. now for the TDS, at a conversion of .7 your EC comes out to almost 1.9, but hanna which is almost the standard in EC measureing goes by .5 conversion, this comes out to 2.6ec, lower your tds, it will not hurt, also give your plants a trim underneeth, you can take off the lower 1/4 of leaves, dont wait for them to fall of and make a mess, this will improve air flow. like i said before if those are stg inserts that is the root of your problems, change res every 10-14 days, flush every 2-3 res's and lower your tds and i promise you will have happier plants in 7 days


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## boxing119 (Jun 20, 2010)

"for a trouble free grow flush with plain water once a month for 2 days." Morris do you recommend doing that even If no problems are present?


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## morrisgreenberg (Jun 20, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> "for a trouble free grow flush with plain water once a month for 2 days." Morris do you recommend doing that even If no problems are present?


yes indeed, the reason why i say 2 days is if your in flower and you feed once every 3-4 hours that only gives you 3-4 floods during lights on, thats not enough rince to wash off nutrient residue, during veging i flush the day before flipping the lights, since i run 24 hours and flood every 3 hours i get 8 floods in one day. the best way to know if you flushed good is when your ppm readings stop climbing, for example you add plain fresh 0ppm water, after first flood that number will climb, next thing you know that once 0ppm res water is now 600ppm. i go the extra mile and flush with plain water, 24 hours later dump res and add plain water again for another 24hours, but you can get away with doing it just once since i know its a pain to keep filling and dumping. going the extra mile like i do makes for stable PH and i never get nutrient lockout, even if you change your nutrient mix religiously weekly you will have salt build up and this can cause a nutrient solution to climb when the sweet spot for feeding should go down or stay close to the same starting point. now it is totally natural for PH to rise on a daily basis, but nutrient strength that rises very fast means one of 2 things, you have too much salt biuld up, or you are over feeding, now the basic way to tell if a plant is over fed is by seeing nutrient burn, this is the extreme case, too much nitrogen will turn plants dark green almost blue before you burn the tips, also give a cupping effect, the serrated edges of fan leaves point down, this is all tell tale signs of over fert. as for stablilty with your PH, you will see 2 different types of movemtn on PH, during Veg when a plant takes up most of the nitrogen, this nitrogen uptake will cause your PH to swing up to one whole point, from 5.5 to 6.5 in one day, to most who dont know better they think this is bad and it is a hard spke, this will usually occur when the plant is in veg and is pretty large, larger plants take up more water and nutrients therefore the swings in PH and PPMs are harder. in flower when we artificially deny the plant of nitrogen you will notice the PH stay for the most part the same or even go lower, there is a gentleman on this forum his name is FATMAN, he can elaborate more on this because he is good with the moleculare composition of water chemistry, in veg when nitrogen gets taken up it changes the chemistry of the solution naturally this is the main culprit. take into consideration of what i just said and add the fact that you may have tons of salt biuld up in your tank, in our case as CAP users where there are tons of surface area for salts to biuld up on and you may be using bottles of PH down too often. for those of you who do not veg long his should be mush of an issue, i veg anywhere from 4-6 weeks and i personally dont start to see hard PH spikes daily until 3-4 weeks in. i apply the monthly flush with hydro since when i used to run soil i had a new lockout or deficiencie every week, so i was always flushing and the more i flush the less problems i had, it give your root zone a clean slate. i also have intimate knowledges of the nutrients i use (botanicare PBP) and love it since it is not salty at all, unlike Technaflora and GH flora


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## dieselhound (Jun 21, 2010)

thelotuseed said:


> Need some good advice guys, badly.
> 
> I dont know what to make of my plant problems. I've got two varieties going, 6 grand daddys, and 6 mazaars. The grandaddys are showing some serious leaf cupping, and mazaars arnt, but are a bit dark. The leaves feel a little dry and brittle, but dont have any twisting, only a little on the mazaars. They are six weeks into flowering, and i'm worried the bud growth is underdeveloped at this point.
> 
> ...


 
I was having the same type of problems until I purchased a rez. chiller. Also, when using r/o water you must supplement magnesium. Some people use cal/mag which, can get expensive. I use epsom salt at the rate of 1T -2T per gallon of R/O. 

You should get some hydroponic literature and read up!

Good Luck,
Sticky


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## Big Fatty (Jun 22, 2010)

supplementing mag/cal is realy dependant on your nutes... If your nutes are designed for RO then it's not needed howerver most do anyways causing lockout and then they assume they have a deficiency. I use Aqua Flakes and you can really only use mag/cal at 1/2 strength or it will lockout... sorry about the spelling.. alarm going off! gotta go


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## morrisgreenberg (Jun 22, 2010)

Big Fatty said:


> supplementing mag/cal is realy dependant on your nutes... If your nutes are designed for RO then it's not needed howerver most do anyways causing lockout and then they assume they have a deficiency. I use Aqua Flakes and you can really only use mag/cal at 1/2 strength or it will lockout... sorry about the spelling.. alarm going off! gotta go


i disagree, these plants require tons of calcium and even more magnesium, it would be very hard to cause a lockout from calcium. it is some strains that require extra calcium like my PK, anything less than full strength is no good. now you say lockout, but lock what out? what would higher amounts of cal/mag lockout? elevated amounts of phosphorous will lockout the calcium but i havent heard or read on it the other way around. 9 of 10 nutrient companies make nutes geared toward R/O water thus having a cal.mag supplement in your arsenal is always good, infact too much calcium and or magnesium wont lock anything out it would only become toxic and like i said it would take insane amounts of either to become toxic, high amounts of these 2 are more beneficial than not....in hydro people can lock out calcium if water PH is strictly kept under 6.0, some people are so strict that thier water never sees anything over 5.8 and thats not so good, calcium in hydro is best absorbed at ph's of 6.0-6.5 so this is something that needs to be taken into account. i said that phosphorous will lockout calcium, this usually occurs when running a high phosporous bloom booster in a hydro setup where there is no microbial activity, the higher P levels feed the mocrobial life, therefore this is good when running soil or organics or nutes that have been made with kelps and guanos and such, since there is nothing in the media or substrate or water to counteract the extra phosphorous, this will directly lockout calcium. now if you use fox farms beastie bloomz which is 0-50-30 at full strength with no type of microbes in your water and use this stuff for a long flower period you will get calcium lockout, but i dont know anyone who uses bloom boosters like that at full strength for long periods of time. i know fatman is good with water chemistry and i dont know if he would concur with me, but i got this info from a friend who has a PHD in botany on another forum. info like this is gold especially when running different growing types with certain nutrients


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## researchkitty (Jun 23, 2010)

He's overwatering and needs more airflow. That'll fix the whole two paragraphs of problems.


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## BeginnersLuck (Jun 24, 2010)

E&G growers; I have a pretty simple question I am over-analyzing I think. My PH in my res will be say 5.76, in my controller bucket it is 6.13, if I test the water in a bucket during a flood its say 6.35. Is this right? I am affraid that my plants rarely get nutes that are in the 5.3-5.6 range cause the runoff is so high that it immedietley dilutes the nutes. 

I use RO water PPMs start about 6 and PH is around 4.95 out of the jugs. 

So I try to keep my res during veg from 5.5-5.9 ish. But I affraid that the nutes in the buckets is actually 6.0 when I have a res reading of 5.39... make any sense? Whats the experiences? PPMs from Bucket to control to res are all about consistent.

Thanks

BL


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## researchkitty (Jun 24, 2010)

BeginnersLuck said:


> E&G growers; I have a pretty simple question I am over-analyzing I think. My PH in my res will be say 5.76, in my controller bucket it is 6.13, if I test the water in a bucket during a flood its say 6.35. Is this right? I am affraid that my plants rarely get nutes that are in the 5.3-5.6 range cause the runoff is so high that it immedietley dilutes the nutes.
> 
> I use RO water PPMs start about 6 and PH is around 4.95 out of the jugs.
> 
> ...


I understand exactly what you mean. You get more buildup (thus higher ph and a higher ppm) in your controller bucket since that's where all that gunk builds up. The pump filters most of it out of the water to the reservoir bucket, so it all just stays in the lines and the buckets and control buckets.

The reason the water DURING the flood is a higher pH than both in total, is that you cant test the pH of water while its being poured on the tester meter. It would be more accurate to put the pH meter in the first bucket from the controller, as thats fairly steady water (while still rising) and will give you an accurate reading.

On the pH # part, 5.6-6.4 is a fine range, let it fluctuate a little bit. Plants take in different nutrients at these ranges in different quantities, so the flux is good.


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## scooby83 (Jun 24, 2010)

hi ive done 1full grow with the 24 pot system the only problem i had was the roots growing into pipes and a little root rot in the last weeks 
i only got 54 oz of the 24 

i have invested in a co2 system now so might be a little better this time 
how many 600w lights would you recammend of 24
im trying to use 8 600w hps in cooltubes but cant keep it below 32 degrees c


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## morrisgreenberg (Jun 25, 2010)

people are getting lazy, what used to happen was, a thread was started something like a FAQ like this one on CAP system, so if you went out and picked up a cap system and found this thread you can thumb through it and you will have all your answer before you put your system together, so what i am saying is, before you make a post about your Ebb and Grow system, try checking out this thread from the beginning, me and several other basically answered every single question and problem that you can ever have with this system, so in regard to my friend with the PH flux. flush once every month and you wont have any issues, like i said about 4 posts up, this system has so much surface area between the doubled up pots, res, controller and hoses that nutrient salt biulds get so out of hand that will throw off your readings


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## BeginnersLuck (Jun 25, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> people are getting lazy, what used to happen was, a thread was started something like a FAQ like this one on CAP system, so if you went out and picked up a cap system and found this thread you can thumb through it and you will have all your answer before you put your system together, so what i am saying is, before you make a post about your Ebb and Grow system, try checking out this thread from the beginning, me and several other basically answered every single question and problem that you can ever have with this system, so in regard to my friend with the PH flux. flush once every month and you wont have any issues, like i said about 4 posts up, this system has so much surface area between the doubled up pots, res, controller and hoses that nutrient salt biulds get so out of hand that will throw off your readings


Dont be a fucking forum nazi


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## BeginnersLuck (Jun 25, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> I understand exactly what you mean. You get more buildup (thus higher ph and a higher ppm) in your controller bucket since that's where all that gunk builds up. The pump filters most of it out of the water to the reservoir bucket, so it all just stays in the lines and the buckets and control buckets.
> 
> The reason the water DURING the flood is a higher pH than both in total, is that you cant test the pH of water while its being poured on the tester meter. It would be more accurate to put the pH meter in the first bucket from the controller, as thats fairly steady water (while still rising) and will give you an accurate reading.
> 
> On the pH # part, 5.6-6.4 is a fine range, let it fluctuate a little bit. Plants take in different nutrients at these ranges in different quantities, so the flux is good.


Sounds good its what I do. Set it at like 5.3 (res) during veg and let it drift as high as 6.1, 5.6-6.3 during flowering. Just seems odd that they are soo off.. I am good with this though.. 

Thanks RK

BL


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## billybob88 (Jun 25, 2010)

First off, I am building custom Ebb & gro's. 5 gallon buckets, 3/4 inch lines. 2 hookups per bucket. 

I have been actively hunting these damn float switches. Anyone know a good place to get them that are like $5-6 dollars? I need like 50 of them. Ebay is okay but I need a reliable place.

Also, Any ideas for a 240 gallon res that can fit through a door? hahaha


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## patlpp (Jun 25, 2010)

billybob88 said:


> First off, I am building custom Ebb & gro's. 5 gallon buckets, 3/4 inch lines. 2 hookups per bucket.
> 
> I have been actively hunting these damn float switches. Anyone know a good place to get them that are like $5-6 dollars? I need like 50 of them. Ebay is okay but I need a reliable place.
> 
> Also, Any ideas for a 240 gallon res that can fit through a door? hahaha


_http://www.aquahub.com/store/ifloatfloatswitch.html#

Also check out the do-it yourself link. The res ur gonna have to hook up in tandem ! 
_


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## scooby83 (Jun 25, 2010)

scooby83 said:


> hi ive done 1full grow with the 24 pot system the only problem i had was the roots growing into pipes and a little root rot in the last weeks
> i only got 54 oz of the 24
> 
> i have invested in a co2 system now so might be a little better this time
> ...


bump bump ????


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## researchkitty (Jun 25, 2010)

For 24 plant sites I'd recommend 4 600w lamps and a 3 week veg time. Better yet, 4 1000w lamps and a 2 week veg time. If your temps are a problem, tell us about how your air circulation works. I bet you need a cold air intake or a better exhaust.

On the pH note to the other guy: 5.3 is too low. 5.6 is where you should set it to and let it get to 6.3-6.4 that's all.


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## boxing119 (Jun 25, 2010)

https://mail.google.com/mail/[email protected]&ui=2&view=att&th=12970ccfd27d3c6c&attid=0.1&disp=inline


any idea on what could cause this, i had this problem with my last ebb and gro grow, about 5 weeks into flower edges turn a little brown


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## billybob88 (Jun 25, 2010)

patlpp said:


> _http://www.aquahub.com/store/ifloatfloatswitch.html#
> 
> Also check out the do-it yourself link. The res ur gonna have to hook up in tandem !
> _


I get my timers through them. But I dont want to pay 500$ for 50 float switches. Thats kinda outrageous. 

Think rigging 4 55 gallon drums together will work?


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## scooby83 (Jun 25, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> For 24 plant sites I'd recommend 4 600w lamps and a 3 week veg time. Better yet, 4 1000w lamps and a 2 week veg time. If your temps are a problem, tell us about how your air circulation works. I bet you need a cold air intake or a better exhaust.
> 
> On the pH note to the other guy: 5.3 is too low. 5.6 is where you should set it to and let it get to 6.3-6.4 that's all.


the room is 20m3 2.6mx3.6mx2.2m
my set up is as follows

4x duel cool tubes (2x600w hps bulbs per tube)
2x rvk L2 fans 950m3 pulling air through tubes from a walk in closet with vents to out side
1x 1500m3 acustic box fan with carbon filter pull air to loft space
1x 1250m3 fan bringing air into the room
1x unis co2 controler with co2 bottle
5x ocilating fans
1x unis fan speed controller

i have the extractor up high and the intake at the other end down low so its pulled across the plants im strugling to have more then 4 lights on because of the heat im going to put an air con just before where the air in is so it bringing cooler air in to the grow space


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## patlpp (Jun 25, 2010)

billybob88 said:


> I get my timers through them. But I dont want to pay 500$ for 50 float switches. Thats kinda outrageous.
> 
> Think rigging 4 55 gallon drums together will work?


Your buying in quantity so 50 would be $294. ($5.84 each) just as you asked. You might even call them up and negotiate an even better price. It's all business.


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## researchkitty (Jun 25, 2010)

AquaHubs pricing is meant for individual or a few at a time sales. I'd agree with patlpp that there's got to be a fairly nice quantity discount for 50 switches.


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## dtp5150 (Jun 25, 2010)

anyone actually build an aquahub kit? I have two, I was thinking maybe I'll try it tonight, heh....

also CAP does have a good warranty, but you dont get an interim replacement, so ur crop ( or your life ) is harmed if the controller break u gotta manually flood and drain it.

So, I do recommend everyone buy or make a spare controller bucket! flood/drain 3 times per day manually is a pain, and probably will end up with some kind of user error and flood your grow room hehe it happens!

also I recommend not messing with the system too much once you set it up. At one time I was doing some kind of perpetual harvest, taking out and adding plants. it was working fine but every once in a while there was a hose that came off a little and leaked, and I even had two buckets crack. so, u should really set the pots and not move them around much or take on/off the connectors much.

also I wondered why they included a few clamps when those hoses and barbed connectors worked so well  

Once I awoke to nearly empty res and wet garage to find the drain pump had ( after testing during the day ) pushed the hose off the controller bucket so I guess there was a 10 minute fountain in my garage some time during the night ( i could see water spots on the wall ) I finally found out what those clamps are for.


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## billybob88 (Jun 26, 2010)

I talked to the manager of aquahub, He quoted me at 8.99 for 25+. And 7.99 for 50+. Still 400 dollars w/o shipping for 50 switches! Is it just me or does that seem like alot for some plastic and wires...




But about the res situation. I'm trying to fill 24 5 gal. buckets. So I figure I need 200 Gal solid. 

I figure my options are building a box with wood and then lining it with a pond liner, or linking 4 55 gallon drums. I think the drums are the easiest and most efficient way to go. 
AnyIdeas?!!


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## JeffersonBud (Jun 26, 2010)

I Think 150 gallons will suit you very well. Your not going to fill the 5 gals all the way with water because of the medium and plant material. If you did, you would need 120 gallons and they would most likely drink 5-10 at the most so you would never touch 150 gallons total.


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## researchkitty (Jun 26, 2010)

dtp5150 said:


> anyone actually build an aquahub kit? I have two, I was thinking maybe I'll try it tonight, heh....


They arent hard, but they dont include the power sockets or the power cabling to the wall. Kinda dumb. AquaHub says the plan to add those in future kits, so its not exactly 100% of what you need. Plan on another $10 at Walmart.


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## billybob88 (Jun 27, 2010)

I rigged up 4 55 gallon drums. 1 1/4" grommets at the bottom. connected with 1 1/4 inch pvc. Sealed with silicon. Works like a dream. But i need a 1000+ gph pump in the res. 

Also I've got a siphon problem going from the res to the controller. any ideas?


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## researchkitty (Jun 27, 2010)

Billybob88:

I'd strongly advise you of connecting a pump between each reservoir. Its impossible for the nutrient solution to mix by itself with four narrow channels separating the reservoirs. The only good way I can think of is to fill one reservoir with 4x the ppm, then empty 25% into each res then fill each res back to top with water which fuck me -- that's a lot of work! 

For the siphoning issue -- do the fill/drain tubes have the little tittys coming out of them at the top? If its just regular hose the entire way without these little air breaks you'll have siphoning issues. Check my grow journal for res/room pictures for the little titty things if you arent sure what they are........


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## billybob88 (Jun 28, 2010)

Thanks research! I addressed the problem of trying to get all the res's the same. I start by just making each res equal(water, nutes, etc) Then I have a 400 GPH pump in one res with a 3 way splitter. one tube running to each res. I run the pump for 30 minutes every hour, plus airstones in each res. This keeps the solution constantly flowing and mixing up between each res. Any opinions?



As for the siphon issue.. No little titties on my line.... but I installed 1 little 1/4 inch barb right above the water line on the fill and drain lines. When the pump shuts off you hear a wooosshhh of air running into the line. Solved the problem immediately.


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## NEW2DRO (Jun 28, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> people are getting lazy, what used to happen was, a thread was started something like a FAQ like this one on CAP system, so if you went out and picked up a cap system and found this thread you can thumb through it and you will have all your answer before you put your system together, so what i am saying is, before you make a post about your Ebb and Grow system, try checking out this thread from the beginning, me and several other basically answered every single question and problem that you can ever have with this system, so in regard to my friend with the PH flux. flush once every month and you wont have any issues, like i said about 4 posts up, this system has so much surface area between the doubled up pots, res, controller and hoses that nutrient salt biulds get so out of hand that will throw off your readings


I have read from start to last and I for one appreciate ALL of your knowledge! Thanks


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## billybob88 (Jun 30, 2010)

The 5 gallon ebb an grow is done! Took me forever to get it right but its done and working flawless. And y'all were right 220 gallon res was way too much. But it leaves room for expansion on it. And its done, leak free, circulating perfect. 

Hopefully my ladies enjoy the 2.5x upgrade of media space.....

A Durban in a 3 gallon soil pot in comparison to the 5 gal ebb.


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## researchkitty (Jun 30, 2010)

billybob88 said:


> The 5 gallon ebb an grow is done! Took me forever to get it right but its done and working flawless. And y'all were right 220 gallon res was way too much. But it leaves room for expansion on it. And its done, leak free, circulating perfect.
> 
> Hopefully my ladies enjoy the 2.5x upgrade of media space.....
> 
> A Durban in a 3 gallon soil pot in comparison to the 5 gal ebb.


I'd like to hear from you in a few months after you get used to the hose connections you have on the buckets. The rectangle hosing configuration looks very clean, I just wonder about you needing the buckets to move around in the room a bit as plants grow etc........


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## billybob88 (Jun 30, 2010)

Theres a little bit of flexibility. not a lot though. but I wanted my system to fill extremely fast. with 2 hookups per bucket, its a failsafe for clogging and fills more rapidly. The whole thing floods in 5 minutes flat. 

Each line can be maneuvered pretty easily, and as always u can pick a plant up out of the bucket and move it to another site if need be. I'm really liking it so far though.


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## JeffersonBud (Jul 1, 2010)

Kitty and Billybob,
Like yourselves I am running an ebb and gro with 100% hydroton. I am having trouble getting the feeding times down and have read a lot of conflicting times and can't seem to get a straight answer. I have three 1k's, a few wall fans and my room stays at 82 during the hottest part of the day with 34% RH ( I am running co2). When they drain, the hydroton is glistening with water and is wet. Should I be looking for the top inch to start drying out before I water again and by drying I mean not bone dry like the top of the hydroton that never gets flooded, but dry as in not wet looking yet the pellets have a darker color due to being a tad moist?
If this is the case and it still wants to dry out during the night, should I have a flood cycle in the middle of the night to keep things moist? I know they are not really active at night, but don't want to dry them out.


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## billybob88 (Jul 1, 2010)

I start mine out in 3x3x4 rockwool cubes. Veg them in the cubes, then when ready for flower they go into my system. 

I bury my rockwool cubes pretty deep in the pot so that the bottoms of the cube get soaked with water.

IMO you don't want the top of the hydroton wet, especially at night when its cool and dark. This can promote algae, Powdery mildew, Fungus gnats, etc etc.

The top of my buckets stay bone dry about 3-4 inches down. But I am also using 5 gallon pots.

Even though the top isnt wet, if you buried your plant deep enough, there will be retaining moisture in the rootzone. I personally feed 5 15 minute cycles during a 12 hour day. My system takes 5 minutes to fill completely so they soak for 10, then takes about 12-15 minutes to drain. so they get about a 20-25 minute soak.


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## JeffersonBud (Jul 1, 2010)

billybob88 said:


> I start mine out in 3x3x4 rockwool cubes. Veg them in the cubes, then when ready for flower they go into my system.
> 
> I bury my rockwool cubes pretty deep in the pot so that the bottoms of the cube get soaked with water.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the fast reply billy. I soak about an inch away from the top of the hydroton but I am in the regular buckets. I think I was letting the hydroton dry out too much between waterings. I was only giving them 2 soaks a day... I watched their day cycle yesterday and waited until the hydroton started to dry out under the top inch of bone dry ones. This took three hours so I decided to move my feeding schedule to 4 cycles a day. I also think they need more soaks due to the old o2 in the rootzone and the residual water in the buckets. I have roots growing out of the bottom of the first pot.


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## billybob88 (Jul 1, 2010)

yeah run them at least 3 times a day. 4 would be optimal. I'm doing 5 right now cause I just transplanted and trying to get the roots to spread out from the rockwool.

How long does it take to completely fill your system?


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## JeffersonBud (Jul 1, 2010)

I takes a few over 4 minutes until the float turns off the pump although it cycles on and off for a minute or two after that to keep the desired height. It then takes about 7 minutes to drain completely so they are totally submerged for a little over 10 minutes before it starts to drain. 
What do you think about night floods? The hydroton seems to dry out about half way into their night cycle. Once again its not bone dry like the first inch but seems to loose moisture about 6 hours in to the night cycle. I know that plants are sleeping and are not up-taking nutrients at night, but it would seem that one soak to keep the clay moist is okay considering its refreshing the o2 since the reservoir is heavily oxygenated. Being 82 degrees at the high point and always around 30-35% rh, it would seem that my medium would dry out quicker. My fans are oscillating on the wall and blow air downwards over the plants so I am sure they are drying out the hydroton as well. I am used to the plant and know she curls her leaves genetically, but I have always used a rockwool slab drip system and water 3x 15 minutes in the slabs so this is completely different.
I have pics of my room in my sig if it makes it any easier.
thanks again for the info!


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## researchkitty (Jul 1, 2010)

JeffersonBud said:


> Kitty and Billybob,
> Like yourselves I am running an ebb and gro with 100% hydroton. I am having trouble getting the feeding times down and have read a lot of conflicting times and can't seem to get a straight answer. I have three 1k's, a few wall fans and my room stays at 82 during the hottest part of the day with 34% RH ( I am running co2). When they drain, the hydroton is glistening with water and is wet. Should I be looking for the top inch to start drying out before I water again and by drying I mean not bone dry like the top of the hydroton that never gets flooded, but dry as in not wet looking yet the pellets have a darker color due to being a tad moist?
> If this is the case and it still wants to dry out during the night, should I have a flood cycle in the middle of the night to keep things moist? I know they are not really active at night, but don't want to dry them out.


Never flood at night. They wont dry out for a few days in a bucket of Hydroton. I read posts here and there where some guy says he floods his trays every hour for 15 minutes. Its stupid.  

Veg mode: 1x water per day

Flower mode Week 1-2: 1x water per day

Flower mode Week 3-4: 2x water per day

Flower mode Week 5-8: 2x or 3x water per day

The time it takes the buckets to slowly fill and drain (15 minute flood, and 7-8 minute drain) also gives the roots time to drink the water. If you flood and drain too fast, you may have to water more than if you let them soak for that nice 22 minute drink.

I always water within the first hour of the lights coming on. The second watering would be at hour "1" and then at hour "7". For the third, it'd be hour "1", hour "4", then hour "8". And again to reiterate, no watering at night.

Good luck!


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## researchkitty (Jul 1, 2010)

Keeping them 'bone dry' for 3-4 inches is a little counterproductive. You want it within the top inch of the plants, meaning when your watering is flooding the trays, the top one inch of Hydroton shouldnt get wet. The roots are pretty big 2" down and if they remain dry, you risk stunting the plants growth.

ALWAYS put the Rockwool cubes top at the top of the Hydroton too. I see a lot of journals where the plants are in cubes on top of the Hydroton, rather than level to the top of the cube. This is again for the same root issue.

X's are Hydroton that is DRY
O's are Hydroton that is WET

XXXXXXXXXXXXX
OOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOO


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## JeffersonBud (Jul 1, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Never flood at night. They wont dry out for a few days in a bucket of Hydroton. I read posts here and there where some guy says he floods his trays every hour for 15 minutes. Its stupid.
> 
> Veg mode: 1x water per day
> 
> ...


Thanks kitty for getting back to me. I hear ya about the watering at night. Since I am not using rockwool cubes and my plants are placed into the hydroton directly it would seem I need to flood at least 3 times a day to keep things moist. When I did 2 watering a day last week, one 30 minutes after the lights came on, and the second 2 hours before they turned off, it seems that the roots started to dry out and the growth was stunted. The plant also felt fry and some leaves were wilting off of the bottom of the plant.
I was under the impression that you and billy were running straight hydroton without cubes but looking at your journal I can see you indeed use the cubes. I am wondering if hydroton with the cubes are better then hydroton alone.


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## billybob88 (Jul 1, 2010)

Sorry I dont have something legit up of my new system. I like running the cube in the system, kinda gives them a base to work with. Also makes it super easy to have vegging clones in cubes ready to go into the system. 

I could be wrong..... but I like watering 3-4 times a day no matter what. Just upping the ppm and maybe an interval more as they head into deep flowering. But as I always say. Do what works for you! If something is working good that your doing. Keep doing it


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## Willponic (Jul 2, 2010)

Greetings E&G's, I've just started on my first ever grow. I have read every page of this thread (*ALL 99*) and wanted to thank everyone for all the information they've shared! 

My system is custom E&G 20 site, 3.5 gallon buckets, 3/4 inch lines, upgraded pumps and a sealed room with closed loop ventilation on 4 600w lights

Running Cutting Edge Nutes and gonna add the Exhale Co2 bags as well

I'll post up some pics this weekend

I


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## scooby83 (Jul 6, 2010)

hi im on my second grow with the ebb and flow 
seems this time round im having trouble getting them start some a really doing well and others not so 
the only thing i can think of is i didnt put the rockwool cubes deep enough in the pot to start off


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## scooby83 (Jul 6, 2010)

billybob88 said:


> I start mine out in 3x3x4 rockwool cubes. Veg them in the cubes, then when ready for flower they go into my system.
> 
> I bury my rockwool cubes pretty deep in the pot so that the bottoms of the cube get soaked with water.
> 
> ...


how are you vegging them what system or have you just got them in a try or of something the like that i was thinking of using aqua farms 4 plants per farm and vegging for 2weeks but i was think wouldnt this cause a lot of stress and damage root zones


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## billybob88 (Jul 6, 2010)

Yeah I just veg them in a tray. I mean any transplant is going to shock. But my plants were looking great a day after they got into their new home. Now they are super stoked.


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## mrduke (Jul 11, 2010)

anyone ever run a modified SOG useing this system ? I was thinking of adding on another 12 buckets making a total of30 anddoing no veg(well maybe a week) then going straight 12/12. my rooms 4.5 x 9 so i figure it would be like having a 4x8 tray. i run a 1000 and a 600 both cooled. what do ya'll think bout that idea.


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## researchkitty (Jul 11, 2010)

I veg in one gallon ebb & flow system that feeds em week one nutrients, and then transplant them to the flower room when they are ready for 12/12. All hydroton except for seeds, which are started in rw cubes.


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## bigbacon2 (Jul 13, 2010)

i am finishing my first grown with 6 1000 watt hps and 30 buckets with 15 on each res and controller..I am using hydroton right now and cant stand washing it.. Went to the grow store and bought a big brick of grodan rockwool..One brick fills about 40 2 gal pots. Anyone have any expierence with this??I have never seen or used this, thanks


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## researchkitty (Jul 13, 2010)

The rockwool breakaway cubes arent strong enough to support plants of the size you'll need -- not even a third of that plant height. Sure to Grow also has those ebb&flow inserts, but they are too limp to support as well. Hydroton works exceptionally well because of its ability to not retain water and drain every time. Rockwool absorbs and holds too much water for an E&F bucket system.


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## lagypsyrose (Jul 13, 2010)

why dont you just run Zone or hydroton peroxide to break down all the shit and clean your rocks. You dont have to take them out.


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## lagypsyrose (Aug 12, 2010)

that's hydrogen peroxide...not hydroton peroxide. I have seen a guy on youtube run zone through his system and then just replant his pots. From reading all 99 pages i have read that the roots get pretty crazy. I just started my first grow with my ebb and grow. I'm running 8 buckets in a hydrohut mini silver edition...it is 3x3. I have a 600w hps but due to the summer heat i am running a 400w hps. Everything seems to be going well. Thanks to this thread i learned a lot about what to expect and know where to come when i run into a problem.  

Actually, i have a question. I use Advanced Nutes and am 3 weeks into veg. My soup mixture includes the GMB, rhino skin, bud candy, and sensizyme...the first 2 weeks i had did the usual low ppm soup and all was good. I bumped the ppms up on my last water change and then 3 days later i had this whitish brown foam in my res. It was pretty thick and really gross. Checked my roots to see how they look and they were all good. Plants aren't showing any signs of stress. Posted a video on youtube and was told that it is the yeast extract in the bud candy. Does anyone know if this is right? Just for safe measure i put some Zone in my res (i know it will kill my sensizyme). What do you guys and gals think? Thanks for all your knowledge!


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## researchkitty (Aug 12, 2010)

Lagy: I get the same problem when using Humboldt Roots for all of the veg cycle and first 2 weeks of flowering. Its just brown goop. Anything that floats just scrape off and toss in the garbage. It isnt anything thats going to hurt anything, just annoying sludge.


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## lagypsyrose (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanks for the quick response and assurance kitty. My girls don't seem to mind it...the speed they are growing at is amazing!


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## dtp5150 (Sep 11, 2010)

aight lets clear some things up

someone has been telling me that we would benefit from a 2 inch pvc spacer inserted between the inner and outer buckets, creating a bigger air gap, saying that the roots will explode with growth and make a big fat healthy rootball in this newly created gap. I say it wouldn't help since the roots are designed to be growing in the medium, not suspended in stagnant air or water.

can we agree if this is beneficial or not? if it is, obviously the idea should be explored, but all ive seen is a video of a guy growing in STG needing to do this


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## researchkitty (Sep 11, 2010)

The PVC spacer between the buckets is for poorly designed buckets that are too tapered and sink too low. Ideally, it should be about an inch above the drain spout so the hydroton at the bottom of the buckets doesnt stay soaked in water. Thats the only purpose of them. If the roots grow through the buckets and died, that's OK as the other roots will grow to compensate.

The guy growing in a STG immediately tells us that s/he doesnt know much about E&F systems.


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## UwAnTtOScUbA (Sep 11, 2010)

hello, im having a problem over flowing... seems that the biggest plants that have the most roots are over flowing.
we tried lifting them up higher .we have a bubbler under each 1....my son can explain better but any help,...ty im going to call hydro store too...ty


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## BuddGreen (Sep 11, 2010)

I did this one for my boy.

Pic#1 24" Carbon Coal Filter and twin 600W SunSystems hoods with Hortilux Super HPS bulbs.
Pic#2 6" Vortex Fan with insulated duct work.
Pic#3 12 Pot System.
Pic#4 Tubes and Control Rez.


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## researchkitty (Sep 12, 2010)

UwAnTtOScUbA said:


> hello, im having a problem over flowing... seems that the biggest plants that have the most roots are over flowing.
> we tried lifting them up higher .we have a bubbler under each 1....my son can explain better but any help,...ty im going to call hydro store too...ty


I dont understand the problem clearly enough. If you have a picture and some information about your grow room and the plants age would really help.


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## researchkitty (Sep 12, 2010)

BuddGreen said:


> I did this one for my boy.
> 
> Pic#1 24" Carbon Coal Filter and twin 600W SunSystems hoods with Hortilux Super HPS bulbs.
> Pic#2 6" Vortex Fan with insulated duct work.
> ...


Very nice and clean installation! Looks like your'e mostly done in there. Only 6 buckets for 1000w lamps, so are you doing a 4 or 5 week veg? What's the brown rectangle under the pots on the floor (and why?)


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## BuddGreen (Sep 12, 2010)

The rectangle is the rooms carpet. He said good enough...I said not really!!! But it's what he wants so I left it. Got just under a half roll of panda film out of the deal too LOL!!! I'm helping him with the entire grow up to the first harvest. He wants me to show him how to do it. It's my first E&G but i read then learn it by doing it.


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## researchkitty (Sep 12, 2010)

Ha, very funny.   I cant imagine buckets on carpet, he'll learn in about the first few waters and swap it out.  E&G is easy, I dont think there's too many new questions possible in this monster thread, but there always seems to be new stuff coming up. Anyone who reads every page here is wellllllllllllll on their way to being the Jedi Master of E&F.............


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## bowlfullofbliss (Sep 12, 2010)

I've never had a single leak in my system. I do however line my floor with a pond liner, just in case!


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## researchkitty (Sep 13, 2010)

Its not just leaks in the system that make carpet a bad choice if you never have a leak....... Its what about the time when you want to rearrange the plants so the short one is in the middle and the tall ones are around the outside? The buckets WILL drip a little water on the floor no matter what you do. And sometimes the plastic fittings crack, your controller may overfill if a float fails and spills the entire reservoir worth of nutrient solution all over the floor too. What about when you want to hand water a plant that got some nutrient burn with some fresh clean water and you spill the half gallon on the floor when you trip on a mouse?

If the carpet was at least white to reflect the light that hits the floor from only having 6 plants using 1/2 of the space of the lights for the first 4 weeks of flowering then that'd be cool at least. 

But yea, congrats on having NO LEAKS! We ALL still get a water spill -- eventually.


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## budfox (Sep 26, 2010)

im thinking hard of getting one of thoses systems ,for you guyz who have used it it says it can be extended to 48 sites on one system??? for us mj growers how many pots do you guys think could be added on the 12 pots system whithout downsides during the whole cycles??


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## BuddGreen (Oct 2, 2010)

budfox said:


> im thinking hard of getting one of thoses systems ,for you guyz who have used it it says it can be extended to 48 sites on one system??? for us mj growers how many pots do you guys think could be added on the 12 pots system whithout downsides during the whole cycles??


I would suggest no more than 18 pots per 55 gallon rez. My buddy is having me set one up like that under two 1000w lights. 9 pots under each 4' by 4' air cooled hood. It's what I felt was a killer combo. If it works out good, he'll have me do another one next to it so he can harvest 9 plants every 2 weeks...I'm one of his paid trimmers so it works for me to say the least. Cookies, Brownies, awesome weed and money...I want this every 2 weeks!!!


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## ebbensmoke (Oct 3, 2010)

ive had leaks. i had one of the grommets that goes in the bucket dry out. it took me like a week to find the source of the small, slow leak, especially becuase i had a bad float at one point so i kept thinking it was the contrtoller bucket. ever since i swapped out the grommet its bbeen fine


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## bowlfullofbliss (Oct 3, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Its not just leaks in the system that make carpet a bad choice if you never have a leak....... Its what about the time when you want to rearrange the plants so the short one is in the middle and the tall ones are around the outside? The buckets WILL drip a little water on the floor no matter what you do. And sometimes the plastic fittings crack, your controller may overfill if a float fails and spills the entire reservoir worth of nutrient solution all over the floor too. What about when you want to hand water a plant that got some nutrient burn with some fresh clean water and you spill the half gallon on the floor when you trip on a mouse?
> 
> If the carpet was at least white to reflect the light that hits the floor from only having 6 plants using 1/2 of the space of the lights for the first 4 weeks of flowering then that'd be cool at least.
> 
> But yea, congrats on having NO LEAKS! We ALL still get a water spill -- eventually.


I use vasoline on all fittings when putting them together. I use it on the gromets, and the fittings going into the gromets, and putting on the hoses. Zero leaks.

I do however seem to spill quite a bit of water when doing changeouts though. No doubt about that. Dumping in all those 5 gallon buckets you're bound to spill some. I made a sweet drain right next to my system. It is 2" pvc that runs straight down and outside. I just hook up a hose to the fill, flip her on, and out it goes.


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## researchkitty (Oct 3, 2010)

I'm using 3.5 gallon buckets, 36 per reservoir now. dont listen to the "only 18" unless they are using much bigger buckets like 5 gallons. The buckets are full of hydroton so a 3.5 gallon bucket only holds about 1.5 gallons of water to the fill line. I top off the reservoir every 3 or 4 days thats all it needs.


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## ears (Oct 3, 2010)

try the growElf 5 gallon system. i have switched out all my two gallon white to five gallon black. the controler brain runs a 65 liter per min air pump that that attaches to 4" air stones under the inside eachpot bucket, only in the flood cycle. and when it goes back to a drain cycle it turns on a cerculation pump in the 55 gal. res., and you can run a chiller on the same plug instead of the pump, and all of that is controlled by the same timer. the shit is sick. check it out on youtub, keyword growelf one word. sorry for the spelling, but my plants dont mind..


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## researchkitty (Oct 4, 2010)

5 gallon buckets are retarded on an Ebb & Grow. Your plants wont ever use that much of a bucket. I grow mine 4 feet tall and they barely use half of the 3.5 gallon buckets......... All you'll do is promote water loss and waste nutrients really. Most people using 5 gallon buckets have purchased them from Lowes or Home Depot because they are cheap and in stock. They are most certainly NOT the best or proper bucket for E&F unless your going to veg them for a few MONTHS before flowering (which, some people for outdoors would, but not on indoor Hydroton E&G)

With respect to Grow Elf's system, it's cute and new and whatever, but this is the cap thread, not other companies. Everyone who posts on RIU about grow elf always has a very low post count and I think its more trolling for good publicity than anything. Most new people are asking questions, rather than sucking a manufacturers dick right off the bat.


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## ears (Oct 5, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> 5 gallon buckets are retarded on an Ebb & Grow. Your plants wont ever use that much of a bucket. I grow mine 4 feet tall and they barely use half of the 3.5 gallon buckets......... All you'll do is promote water loss and waste nutrients really. Most people using 5 gallon buckets have purchased them from Lowes or Home Depot because they are cheap and in stock. They are most certainly NOT the best or proper bucket for E&F unless your going to veg them for a few MONTHS before flowering (which, some people for outdoors would, but not on indoor Hydroton E&G)
> 
> With respect to Grow Elf's system, it's cute and new and whatever, but this is the cap thread, not other companies. Everyone who posts on RIU about grow elf always has a very low post count and I think its more trolling for good publicity than anything. Most new people are asking questions, rather than sucking a manufacturers dick right off the bat.


 
wow. angry much? just letting fellow growers in on some cool shit... did you forget to change your rag? as a comercial grower i have found that the roots have more room to reach out. and the bubblers in the buckets have promoted increadible growth way more then the simple ebb and flo design of this type of system. as a ex cap consumer i am coming here to share my findings with you and anyone else. maybe save someone from the problems that come from the caps. sorry to ruffle your feathers, but i thought we were here to help each other. 
xoxo
sorry about the spelling, but my plant dont mind.


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## powerplant74 (Oct 7, 2010)

Ears im glad you posted the link I purchased a cap monster ebb and I had to replace the leaking fucker twice in 2 weeks (Fresh out the box)!!!
Now im waiting on a replacement Caps say they checked there self and should not leak. I hope Game James at Cap is right because if not I WANT MY FUCKING MONEY BACK YESTERDAY! 

Ears ANY leaking issue or recalls with the Growelf?


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## Closet Farmer (Oct 7, 2010)

Ears is doing what is known as Gorrilla Marketing.


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## ears (Oct 8, 2010)

powerplant74 said:


> Ears im glad you posted the link I purchased a cap monster ebb and I had to replace the leaking fucker twice in 2 weeks (Fresh out the box)!!!
> Now im waiting on a replacement Caps say they checked there self and should not leak. I hope Game James at Cap is right because if not I WANT MY FUCKING MONEY BACK YESTERDAY!
> 
> Ears ANY leaking issue or recalls with the Growelf?


no not one. i haven"t had a flood, failed float, clock malfunction, or the dreaided leak.


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## researchkitty (Oct 8, 2010)

I'm not bleeding. Right now. But keep posting, 48 posts are totally cool.

It's great that you proclaim your love for GrowElf in about 20% of your very few posts. Buckets are buckets! Roots wont grow more in a 5 gallon bucket than they will in a 2.5 or 3.5 gallon bucket. It just takes up more space under a light allowing you less plants. Unless you veg yours for at least 8 or 12 weeks, a 5 gallon bucket wont do you any good.

But I'm happy you love talking about Grow Elf and the first person to jump on you for your advertisements you ask if they are bleeding! LOL @ You sir. I hope you sell lots for them!

Later =P


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## axl (Oct 8, 2010)

Sorry if this issue has already been discussed. I am reading the entire thread, i think its awesome, but not all the way through.


Who runs more than one strain at a time. I would like to try a bunch of different strains, but the different flower times would be an issue.

Someone said that they just use floraklean for 4 days and then resume nutes for the rest, any input?


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## BuddGreen (Oct 9, 2010)

ears said:


> wow. angry much? just letting fellow growers in on some cool shit... did you forget to change your rag? as a comercial grower i have found that the roots have more room to reach out. and the bubblers in the buckets have promoted increadible growth way more then the simple ebb and flo design of this type of system. as a ex cap consumer i am coming here to share my findings with you and anyone else. maybe save someone from the problems that come from the caps. sorry to ruffle your feathers, but i thought we were here to help each other.
> xoxo
> sorry about the spelling, but my plant dont mind.



5 Gallon Hydroarm bucket and some roots @ 40 days into Veg...Can you trim roots or do you just let'em go???


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## ears (Oct 9, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> I'm not bleeding. Right now. But keep posting, 48 posts are totally cool.
> 
> It's great that you proclaim your love for GrowElf in about 20% of your very few posts. Buckets are buckets! Roots wont grow more in a 5 gallon bucket than they will in a 2.5 or 3.5 gallon bucket. It just takes up more space under a light allowing you less plants. Unless you veg yours for at least 8 or 12 weeks, a 5 gallon bucket wont do you any good.
> 
> ...


sorry if my rag comment was hash, but maybe i spend more time managing plants then i spend posting. im not selling anything, im a consumer passing on info about good equipment. in an industry that takes advantage of as many people as possible, selling shit products im simply trying to pass on good info for fellow growers. not sucking their dicks as you put it. i dont know when you got so angry, but i remember you asking about the brain part of the growelf back in april. sooo, you with your almost 900 posts sounds as if you are growing your post count not plants. maybe im wronge. sorry, if im wrong. i will work on pics and post count asap.
again, sorry about the spelling but my plants dont mind


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## ears (Oct 9, 2010)

BuddGreen said:


> 5 Gallon Hydroarm bucket and some roots @ 40 days into Veg...Can you trim roots or do you just let'em go???
> 
> 
> View attachment 1201614


i have cut back roots on small plants, only iin my ez cloner. only as an experiment, and it was on a round of grape ape. the results were... the plant i cut stoped growing until the rooots started to grow again. this took about 3 days. i did this because my veg plants were not ready to move to flower yet. so this worked to slow the growth, to pause them to some exstent. hope that helps. how big is the top of this plant?


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## xceptional (Oct 9, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Nice video xceptional, +rep.
> 
> Couple questions:
> 1. How long did you veg? Seed or Clone?
> ...



well this response is late as hell but i dont come here much

1. all clone, 4 week veg
2. i've ran Lucas and House and Garden Aqua Flakes i'm running Lucas again H&G is not worth the extra money IMO for the whole line but i'll run roots excel with lucas base in the future for sure.
3. NL#5 was that grow now i'm on to others. 
4. nothing at all ran them all natural.


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## axl (Oct 11, 2010)

what do you guys do when running multiple strains as far as flushing plants goes? Even growing the same sttrain from seed will have different phenos finishing at different times


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## bowlfullofbliss (Oct 11, 2010)

axl said:


> what do you guys do when running multiple strains as far as flushing plants goes? Even growing the same sttrain from seed will have different phenos finishing at different times


 
It can be tough if they don't finish around the same time. The trick is accepting your going to fuck up the first time. You have to figure out which ones can go together, both for finishing times, and the amount of EC they can take, and PH levels. Height is also a problem, as most of us that have bigger grows have lights that are the same heigth. 

I have 4 strains I grow. My WW and LA Woman go great together, and my heavy duty fruity and sour diesel go great together. That's how I run them. I have gotten rid of my strawberry haze, it takes too long, and doesn't give me the weight I need. 

As for seed, what I do is start the number of seeds I can grow in my pots. I veg them, and judge which two of each strain I think will be the best, using my experience to help judge. I kill off the rest, take clones from those two, plant those clones keeping the mothers alive. Than I take more clones from those mothers, kill them, and have a set of mothers all the same size. Once I decide which one of the two is the best, the other dies, and presto whamo, I have the genes I want. 

Hope that helps!


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## mrduke (Oct 24, 2010)

does anyone see a problem with running 36 plants under 4000w with one res. or would i be better of getting another whole system the system is 400 bucks and 3 expension kits are 180 or so. So for 200 bucks is it worth it?


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## researchkitty (Oct 24, 2010)

mrduke said:


> does anyone see a problem with running 36 plants under 4000w with one res. or would i be better of getting another whole system the system is 400 bucks and 3 expension kits are 180 or so. So for 200 bucks is it worth it?


36 plants under 4000w of light is the same ratio of lights to plants as I run now. 3.5 gallon buckets work the best, space em 9 per, veg them for 3 weeks under a 1000w lamp. My reservoir for these 36 plants is 55 gallons, and I have to top it off by about 10-15 gallons towards the end of flowering when they are drinking a lot.

If you are able to monitor the water levels and top off accordingly, no issue. If you can only check on your plants once or twice a week, dont do it and get a 75-100 gallon res.


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## mrduke (Oct 24, 2010)

thanks kitty where did you get 3.5g pots and why, I veg 2-4 weeks and my pots are full of roots but not overly full, not like a totally packed bucket, just full. do you fill your res. with all 55g?


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## researchkitty (Oct 24, 2010)

I veg in 1 gallon buckets. 3.5 gallon buckets are avilable at any hydro store anywhere in north america - extremely common. Or, usplastics.com for about $5 each delivered and they come in red or black.


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## mrduke (Oct 24, 2010)

did you adapt them for the ebb&gro or do you run a different system


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## researchkitty (Oct 25, 2010)

mrduke said:


> did you adapt them for the ebb&gro or do you run a different system


Ebb & Gro means buckets.

Ebb & Flow means tray tables (which you could have buckets in, or rockwool, or a flat tray of hydroton, whatever, but its tray based).

So I guess 'technically' I didnt adapt anything from anything. My 1 gallon veg buckets are just double 1 gallon buckets on a separate res & controller. I wish I went with a tray instead and the flimsy black square pots, and I'll be upgrading to that eventually. Makes it much easier to manage so many plants in a smaller area unlike the buckets. They get transplanted when they are ready to flower into the 3.5 gallon buckets -- just fill em with water, gently soak the roots into the hydroton/water in the bucket and thats it! They will look a little weak for a day or two but that's it and the transplant shock is over and back to full health and growing again.

This is just how I do it, I dont know if theres a better way or not, if so someone will surely chime in........

Good luck m8


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## shnkrmn (Oct 25, 2010)

I don't use my ebb n gro anymore, but I am using the buckets in a flood table for my mothers. I just couldn't stand the tubing everywhere. I'm thinking of adapting the controller and res to flood a single very large tray filled with the ebb n gro buckets.


Sorry, I fell away from the true faith. It was the siren song of the turbo garden.


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## mrduke (Nov 8, 2010)

any body here running coco in there buckets if so what grade and brand? if you have any pointers thats bueno too


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## lovetogarden (Nov 9, 2010)

Hi guys, I also want to know how effective is an ebb flow system compared with other growing systems like NFT... Is it really advisable to use ebb in growing cannabis? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks


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## boxing119 (Nov 14, 2010)

does anyone know where to buy a lid for the ebb n gro with a built in net pot?


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## researchkitty (Nov 14, 2010)

lovetogarden said:


> Is it really advisable to use ebb in growing cannabis? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks


No, it isnt advisable, we all do it because we are retards. ./sigh


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## mrduke (Nov 14, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> No, it isnt advisable, we all do it because we are retards. ./sigh


lol that why i do it


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## Bobby Brown (Nov 14, 2010)

Sorry if this question has been asked before as I have only read up to page 72.
Couldn't you just use 8 Inch Pot W/Rim in your CAP buckets, so you don't have to use as much hydroton? That much hydroton seems like overkill.

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/inch-pot-wrim-mesh-sides-and-bottom-p-1591.html


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## researchkitty (Nov 14, 2010)

Bobby Brown said:


> Sorry if this question has been asked before as I have only read up to page 72.
> Couldn't you just use 8 Inch Pot W/Rim in your CAP buckets, so you don't have to use as much hydroton? That much hydroton seems like overkill.
> 
> http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/inch-pot-wrim-mesh-sides-and-bottom-p-1591.html


You can *not* use them. If you do, the roots will grow outside of the net pot, and into the empty air with no water solution. The roots will die within a half of an hour of being in open air and your plant will end up not growing much weed at all and you'll have a terrible harvest. Hydroton is the way to go, and it isnt overkill. Even the extra hydroton that doesnt "touch roots" still allows the oxygenated water to evaporate keeping a moving flow of humid air to the roots in other areas.

Net pots would be more designed for a full bucket but with airstones bubbling in the filled bucket 24/7.


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## Bobby Brown (Nov 14, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> You can *not* use them. If you do, the roots will grow outside of the net pot, and into the empty air with no water solution.


I have read that the CAP buckets are left with about an inch of water after draining, wouldn't that be enough to keep the roots from drying out in between fills? I was under the impression that more oxygen to the roots was beneficial. Do roots only get oxygen through water?


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## GreenThumbSucker (Nov 15, 2010)

Bobby Brown said:


> I have read that the CAP buckets are left with about an inch of water after draining, wouldn't that be enough to keep the roots from drying out in between fills? I was under the impression that more oxygen to the roots was beneficial. Do roots only get oxygen through water?


 Netpots only hang down 3 or 4 inches. That leaves about 8 inches of airspace between the bottom of the netpot and the bottom of the bucket.


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## ears (Nov 17, 2010)

let me start by asking you to overlook my spelling, thanks.
here is a run down on ebb and grow... if you remove the the inside bucket and use net pots your roots will die! just like kitty said, but with that you can run air stones in the bottom. again advice from kitty is on the money. but the air stones should only be run with system in a flood cycle. if you run with that one inch of water you will kill the roots in the bucket, worm the water, change ph, or even coat your roots with nuttz at the same time as drying the nuttz on the roots. as far as hydroton it is garbage. cocco is good, but the stuff i have grown with is silica rock.. hands down the best medium i have ever used. my advice is dont rreivent the wheel 
.


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## shnkrmn (Nov 18, 2010)

Well, this guy runs a ebb and grow with netpot lids and has massive white roots hanging down. He floods 4 times a day. AND he uses those STG inserts. Impressive harvests too. I don't know if he posts in this thread, I know he's been in ResearchKitty's thread, so I'm surprised she hasn't checked his grow out.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/353200-villans-5-300-watt-3-a.html

Anyway, your roots won't 'just die'. Coupdevillian's thread proves it.


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Nov 21, 2010)

First of all, this is the best damn thread on ebb and grow out there, thank you all. My question is about trimming roots. I am running 30 buckets and everything is looking great, in fact too great. My root mass has become so dense that they are starting to climb UP the sides of my inner buckets and are so packed between the two buckets that I am afraid it will constrict the flow of water and nutes to my inner buckets. I veg'd a little longer than I planned ( some 4 some 5) and I am in my first week of 12/12. I still have months to go and am wondering if anybody else out there has had similar issues. I have heard about root prunning but is it really going to help or just make them grow back even worse. So far they have not worked there way down the fill lines, just packed tight under inner bucket. Please, any advice would be great. Will post better pic of roots soon.


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## mrduke (Nov 21, 2010)

a good trick is to boost the inner bucket up on some pieces of pvc pipe, I'd say you need about 2 inch long pieces. Also ita good ideal to left the whole bucket set up about 1 1/2" to keep the minimum amount of standing water in your buckets. I set them on a 1 foot long piece of 2x6 and end up with just about 1/2" of water. hope it helps bro. BTW your garden looks sweet


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Nov 21, 2010)

First of all, thank you. I already have my buckets raised about an inch and a half which definenitly helps on the drainage, your right. The problem is that my roots are already packed in between the buckets. I have heard of using a piece of PVC like u said but if I do that now, the PVC will crush what roots are there. I don't, or at least I hope, that this root problem doesn't get so dense and packed that it actually blocks the water from going into my inner buckets. Do your roots try to climb up the sides too?


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Nov 22, 2010)

Heres a better pic of the roots...is this normal???????


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## ears (Nov 23, 2010)

not trying to be a dick but i would first remove you pic with your face in it! next good job on the roots. the spacer is the answer.


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## mrduke (Nov 23, 2010)

anyone find a better medium than hydroton I hate those f'in balls + they hold to much water. ever try to add layers of perlite between the hydroton, like 2"hydroton 1"per 2"hyd 1"per and 2 more hydroton to cover the top


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## str8ballin (Nov 24, 2010)

I've been using soil but would like try a deep water culture sysytem or a bubbler system, which one would be easier for a beginner????


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## mrduke (Nov 24, 2010)

str8ballin said:


> I've been using soil but would like try a deep water culture sysytem or a bubbler system, which one would be easier for a beginner????


 the ebb&gro is neither, but it is very easy once setup basically runs it self


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## i81two (Nov 24, 2010)

mrduke said:


> anyone find a better medium than hydroton I hate those f'in balls + they hold to much water. ever try to add layers of perlite between the hydroton, like 2"hydroton 1"per 2"hyd 1"per and 2 more hydroton to cover the top



Hydroton doesnt hold water. But if you want to try something diferent, try the Hugo RW cubes. And flood 2 times a day.


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## mrduke (Nov 25, 2010)

i81two said:


> Hydroton doesnt hold water. But if you want to try something diferent, try the Hugo RW cubes. And flood 2 times a day.


then why does it stay wet for hours after being flooded????


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## researchkitty (Nov 25, 2010)

mrduke said:


> then why does it stay wet for hours after being flooded????


It is wet, but isnt holding water. It is holding moisture and nutrients thats all. Any water of weight enough to form a drop would have been drained with the rest of the water. If it was truly "bone dry" between each watering, your roots would die and the plant be falling over in a matter of a day or two. I know it sounds like similar things, but there's a difference between drowning roots in water versus moisture. Hope this helps


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## frogster (Nov 25, 2010)

Hello all, I give up... Looked everywhere... I want to run the lucas method, what is the best way to measure your contents on your 55 gal rez.? A stick with marks? drill it and add a tube to the outside? Thx.. Frog


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## researchkitty (Nov 25, 2010)

JuzzSmOkeIt said:


> View attachment 1284293Heres a better pic of the roots...is this normal???????


Normal for the veg time you gave them......  It'll be fine next time. Those roots you can trim from the bottom of the pot with a razor blade. Roots will continue to grow, wont hurt a thing. Usually you wont have to do it at all.....


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## researchkitty (Nov 25, 2010)

frogster said:


> Hello all, I give up... Looked everywhere... I want to run the lucas method, what is the best way to measure your contents on your 55 gal rez.? A stick with marks? drill it and add a tube to the outside? Thx.. Frog


Elementary math. Measure the height of the barrel. If it stands, say 55" tall (which it doesnt), then you'd be at 1 gallon per inch.


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Nov 27, 2010)

Thank you ReaserchKitty, I defenitly appreciate the advice. Wuz a little woried there for awhile. I have read your Journal and was 
very impressed. Love the colored buckets too, where did you find those anyways? Anyway, at least know I know 4 sure I won't be 
committing Sin by doin a little trimmi'n if need be. Thanx


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## johndoecangrow (Nov 27, 2010)

Yes raise the buckets 1 inch above controller bucket and I also only use hydroton.I also only use general hydroponic nutrients


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## BiteSizeFreak (Nov 27, 2010)

I read this whole thread the other day but didn't see anything about when and how to remove the rockwool. Don't suppose someone could expand on that for me please. Pretty noob quesiton I know but I haven't really seen it covered in my reading.


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## horsepower850 (Nov 28, 2010)

I bought one of these systems and all of the add on kits came with the old style of buckets that do not have the recess in the bottom. They are very poor draining. I have already elevated my buckets 1 inch above the controller bucket, but i still need to elevate the non-recess buckets to keep my ladies from getting root rot from staying too wet. I'm using a mix of coco/hydroton 60/40. I'm using coco in this system as a moisture protection barrier if there were something drastic to happen. Power outage, pump malfunction, etc. I'm trying to come up with an idea of something I can buy at Home Depot that will elevate the inner bucket properly. Are there any suggestions?


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## legallyflying (Nov 28, 2010)

horsepower850 said:


> I'm trying to come up with an idea of something I can buy at Home Depot that will elevate the inner bucket properly. Are there any suggestions?


How about your drop a big rock in the bottom of the first bucket? If you REALLY wanted to buy something at HD then you could buy a pretty colored patio brick. 

Seriously though, that should work..


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## horsepower850 (Nov 28, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> How about your drop a big rock in the bottom of the first bucket? If you REALLY wanted to buy something at HD then you could buy a pretty colored patio brick.
> 
> Seriously though, that should work..


 Yea a big rock would work but I want to make sure all the inner buckets are the same height. Rocks are too uneven. I'll come up with something. Just thought I'd ask though.


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## researchkitty (Nov 28, 2010)

JuzzSmOkeIt said:


> Thank you ReaserchKitty, I defenitly appreciate the advice. Wuz a little woried there for awhile. I have read your Journal and was
> very impressed. Love the colored buckets too, where did you find those anyways? Anyway, at least know I know 4 sure I won't be
> committing Sin by doin a little trimmi'n if need be. Thanx


Some place in South Florida called "Rasta Grow". They sold them on eBay a while, I called to buy more and their number was out of order and they didnt answer emails either....... For buckets I'd buy the 2 gallon blacks from usplastics.com now, its the cheapest price. There's also the 6 bucket (aka 12 total with fittings and tubing) expansion kits on eBay from a discounter for $45 + $12 to ship em........ That's pretty good since you dont need the drill nor any additional parts, just plug n play. GL!


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## researchkitty (Nov 28, 2010)

horsepower850 said:


> I bought one of these systems and all of the add on kits came with the old style of buckets that do not have the recess in the bottom. They are very poor draining. I have already elevated my buckets 1 inch above the controller bucket, but i still need to elevate the non-recess buckets to keep my ladies from getting root rot from staying too wet. I'm using a mix of coco/hydroton 60/40. I'm using coco in this system as a moisture protection barrier if there were something drastic to happen. Power outage, pump malfunction, etc. I'm trying to come up with an idea of something I can buy at Home Depot that will elevate the inner bucket properly. Are there any suggestions?


The elevation of your buckets is fine. The coco coir and hydroton mix is not. 100% Hydroton and feel free to use 1" rockwool starter cubes if you like but no coco.  If something drastic does happen the plants will be fine in Hydroton alone for a few days even up to 3 or 4.


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## 420forme (Nov 28, 2010)

You can get colored 5 gal buckets at usplastics too.


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## horsepower850 (Nov 30, 2010)

I found paver bricks at Home Depot that work great. No more buckets sitting in water.


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## researchkitty (Nov 30, 2010)

horsepower850 said:


> I found paver bricks at Home Depot that work great. No more buckets sitting in water.


The reason we recommend PVC is because you can buy a enough for a dozen buckets for $2. PVC wont break down in water like your paver bricks will, and even though the paver bricks arent exactly going to crumble apart, its full of debris and sand from its composition and that could spell problems for your pumps over time.

I'd strongly recommend ditching the bricks.  Plus them bricks are freakin heavy!! The water at the bottom of the outer bucket is supposed to be there, if any roots travel through the bucket this keeps them in better shape than open air and no Hydroton.

The systems work as they are sold, and these types of modifications provide no benefits...............


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## frogster (Nov 30, 2010)

Im thinking keep the airstone on high and add a tablespoon of 30% h202 everyday,,, once my plants get about 6-8" ... should keep nasties out and give the roots a little feeding.... worked nice on on one grow journal I read.......


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## horsepower850 (Dec 1, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> The reason we recommend PVC is because you can buy a enough for a dozen buckets for $2. PVC wont break down in water like your paver bricks will, and even though the paver bricks arent exactly going to crumble apart, its full of debris and sand from its composition and that could spell problems for your pumps over time.
> 
> I'd strongly recommend ditching the bricks.  Plus them bricks are freakin heavy!! The water at the bottom of the outer bucket is supposed to be there, if any roots travel through the bucket this keeps them in better shape than open air and no Hydroton.
> 
> ...


 The benefits are that the coco I"m using dosen't stay wet by lifting the inner from the outer bucket. i'm using a 60/40 mix of coco/hydroton. Why did you say "No hydroton"? I have been told that using straight hydroton as a medium is what works best with this system. The real issue is my floor. It's not level. I have to elevate the buckets at the far end to get a drain. The other problem I have is the individual buckets that I ordered came with the old style outer bucket. The expansion kits come with the new style bucket with a recess in the bottom to allow for better draining. I had to return 36 inner and outer buckets because of this and pay the extra money for the expansion kits.


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## researchkitty (Dec 2, 2010)

horsepower850 said:


> The benefits are that the coco I"m using dosen't stay wet by lifting the inner from the outer bucket. i'm using a 60/40 mix of coco/hydroton. Why did you say "No hydroton"? I have been told that using straight hydroton as a medium is what works best with this system. The real issue is my floor. It's not level. I have to elevate the buckets at the far end to get a drain. The other problem I have is the individual buckets that I ordered came with the old style outer bucket. The expansion kits come with the new style bucket with a recess in the bottom to allow for better draining. I had to return 36 inner and outer buckets because of this and pay the extra money for the expansion kits.


I dont recommend discontinuing Hydroton use. My post suggests the OPPOSITE.  KEEP the Hydroton, DITCH the Coco.

The different bucket sizes is a real bitch. I have 2 gallon, 2.5 gallon, 3.5 gallon and 5 gallon sizes all scattered around. For 8000 watts of lights I'm sticking with 16 plants per light and 2 gallon buckets and those will be here in a week (Check the grow journal sig, we'll eventually be up to 24,000 watts of light and a few hundred plants plus a mushroom op). Even some of the same capacity buckets dont fit the same size, they fit the original bucket it came with so you just have to keep them together as a pair.


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## gus738 (Dec 3, 2010)

107 pages jeez..... well i got C.a.p ebb n gro 12 bucket system. the instructions are horrified so i would like to know how to put it together? i put those plastics in the 
controller bucket but i dont know if i have to put the plastic pieces all the way? ??? 

or do they stick out? i suck at building things so its very complex for me.


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## shnkrmn (Dec 3, 2010)

wow. . . . .


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## BiteSizeFreak (Dec 3, 2010)

gus738 said:


> 107 pages jeez..... well i got C.a.p ebb n gro 12 bucket system. the instructions are horrified so i would like to know how to put it together? i put those plastics in the
> controller bucket but i dont know if i have to put the plastic pieces all the way? ???
> 
> or do they stick out? i suck at building things so its very complex for me.


I'm far from the brightest bulb in the drawer but even I found the directions adequate to put it together and work fine.


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## gus738 (Dec 3, 2010)

yeah i have conditions which i cant , if i could i would of just built it instead of buying... but thanks. can anyone who replys help out ?


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Dec 3, 2010)

gus738 said:


> 107 pages jeez..... well i got C.a.p ebb n gro 12 bucket system. the instructions are horrified so i would like to know how to put it together? i put those plastics in the
> controller bucket but i dont know if i have to put the plastic pieces all the way? ???
> 
> or do they stick out? i suck at building things so its very complex for me.


Well Bro, The first thing I did was to run some hot water on the rubber grommets, and squeeze them in your hand to loosen them up. Have your barbed fitting that you want to use ready. Insert the grommet, MAKING SURE that is seated all the way around. With one hand on the inside of your bucket apply pressure to the area around the rubber grommet. Work the barbed fitting into the grommet by wiggling back and forth GENTLY while pushing in. On the PLANT buckets, I inserted them until the first "barb" cleared the grommet and then pulled back slightly until it was flush with the grommet. If you are connecting another line, like you do on the inside of the controller bucket, usually you want the barb fitting seated all the way in, to where the MIDDLE mark is flush with the outside of the grommet. This leaves a little room to connect, like 2 barbs, a line on the inside. MAKE SURE you use the clamps provided there. This is where the the lines like to pop off, especially on the drain pump line.Hope this helps. Just take your time and remember that the hot water here is your friend. Soaking your 1/2" line in it also helps uncoil it and makes it easier to install, especially on the pump fitting. Good Luck


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## gus738 (Dec 3, 2010)

juzzsmokelt thanks bro! yes helps better then nothing. and i also tried looking for vids on how to install but no luck


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Dec 3, 2010)

Heres some pics of a system i just put together.


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## researchkitty (Dec 4, 2010)

It aint rocket science, every bucket has a T connector which allows water in and water out. Connect them all in a line then to your control bucket. If you cant figure out the basics, you should have seen or read up before even buying it....... This is the easiest way to grow too, so good luck!


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Dec 4, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> It aint rocket science, every bucket has a T connector which allows water in and water out. Connect them all in a line then to your control bucket. If you cant figure out the basics, you should have seen or read up before even buying it....... This is the easiest way to grow too, so good luck!


 
So easy, we have all this dead time to surf the threads!!! Plug & Play He'll ge it....
maybe...?????


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## Nubby Tubbs (Dec 5, 2010)

im super glad i found this thread... im going to pick up my CAP ebb and flow system this afternoon. looks like i have plenty of stuff to sift through on here. from a few videos on youtube, i already know that ill need to make spacers to keep the net pots elevated, and that ill need to use an airstone in the res. but is there anything else to know right off the bat?


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## boxing119 (Dec 5, 2010)

Hey guys any tips for clones in this system? im on my 9 th grow with the ebb and gro and always have problems with keeping small clones alive in the system... any tips???


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## mrduke (Dec 5, 2010)

i always top feed for the first week orso, once a day and keep the flood sched. the same as reg. just helps the get watered when roots arnt reaching to the flood level


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Dec 5, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> Hey guys any tips for clones in this system? im on my 9 th grow with the ebb and gro and always have problems with keeping small clones alive in the system... any tips???


Well, I'm with Mr. Duke on this one. A little top feeding until they have formed a good root system works. Also, if you are elevating your buckets for drainage, maybe wait a couple of weeks before you do that, to allow the flood level to be higher and actually reach your clones. When you raise your buckets, you lower your flood level. The water left in the bottom of the buckets is really only a factor once your root mass has reached the bottom of your buckets and sits in it for too long, until then, leave them on the floor.
Also, are you Aero cloning or using RW? just curious. good luck


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## researchkitty (Dec 5, 2010)

I would think along the lines of veg them further and dont fill the buckets with so much Hydroton would be the two variables that would help here................ Each buckets hydroton should only be filled to the line of the bucket its inside of.....


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## Nubby Tubbs (Dec 5, 2010)

JuzzSmOkeIt said:


> Well, I'm with Mr. Duke on this one. A little top feeding until they have formed a good root system works. Also, if you are elevating your buckets for drainage, maybe wait a couple of weeks before you do that, to allow the flood level to be higher and actually reach your clones. When you raise your buckets, you lower your flood level. The water left in the bottom of the buckets is really only a factor once your root mass has reached the bottom of your buckets and sits in it for too long, until then, leave them on the floor.
> Also, are you Aero cloning or using RW? just curious. good luck


this wasn meant for me, but i was wanting to jump in. first, what do you mean bo "top feed" second, ion the lines of clones, i was about to splurge for an excloner, but im considering using rapid rooters....i just didnt know how rapid rooters would affect the pumps if they washed away a little. im a nub to hydro and this system in general, but im humbled by what ive read in this post, and i have dozens of pages left to read.


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Dec 5, 2010)

Yes, it is an amazing thread. Took me days to catch up. What I meant by "top-feed" was taking a container of nute solution, maybe a 1/2 gallon or so, and pouring directly into your inner buckets during fllood times. Depending on how low you place your clones root mass at first, the flood level might not fully saturate them, therfore top-feeding for the first few days would ensure full saturation until your roots grow down and can be feed correctly. I have only had to do this on very young clones that I didn't transplant deep enough to begin with. I suupose if you do what Kitty says and only fill your inner buckets to the hieght of your outside, then you probably wouldn't have this problem 2 begin with, smart gurl. I have only used RW cubes for my clones but I wouldn't recommend using rapid rooters. An E-Z Cloner or the like is good for this system though. If you take your inner bucket, filled with Hydroton, and submerge it in a tub of water (or mild solution) until the Hydroton starts to float, you can sink your hand (and roots) into the Hydroton. Hold the stem of your clone where you want, and pull the bucket out of the tub, the roots are pulled down into the bucket as the water drains and is firmly planted without having to fight pouring dry Hydroton all over tender roots. This works with RW cubes as well.


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## MIOMIOMI (Dec 5, 2010)

Can anyone help me with my first E & G grow? I am changing over from clothe dirt bags. I am trying to get over having been badly infested with fungus nats, eggs in roots, septoria (leaf/root mold), and pythium (common root rot carried in my fungus nats - strips the plant of nutrients and looks like nutrient deficiencies). I am installing germicidal florescent bulbs to cycle on for airborn mold spores, planning to add hydrogen peroxide to every nutrient change (don't have the money right now for UVC water treatment filter), and needing to know how to boost insurances to treat res to keep the mold out of the root system now that it is in my home and growing area. I plan to clean and treat everything with H202 & bleach, but wondering how to keep cost down on nutrient changes. Can I get away with bringing up the ppm's and keeping nutrients in res for 2 weeks rather than change every week? How much H2O2 will be effective if boosting H2O2 is acceptable after a bad infestation, or should I just toss the nuts' every week? If I do that then maybe the UVC water filter is cheaper than wasting the nuts'. 

I am actually building my own controller bucket, so I can set the levels for switches at any hight in bucket. My tent is currently raised 1" off the floor with sheet of foam insullation under floor lining to keep roots off cold concrete floor in winter months. I plan to put the controller outside the tent on floor next to res so my 2 gal buckets will be up 1 inch. Should I get them another one inch higher to allow for nutrients to completely drain from grow buckets back to the controller? The design of switches requires space for the lower float switch to move so I know my system will have the same design flaws, but I can run my top switches a little higher to allow for higher water levels. Having thought about STG, RW, root rot, and algy, I too figured on needing some drier space and even the need to cover over the top from light and bugs. If I raise buckets up 2 inches then if I allow for the same measurements as CAP that will mean I have about 5 inches of dry space above the high water level in my grow buckets when nested, is this correct and should I raise my upper switches to bring the top water line up 2 more inches?

CAP shows a vaccuum break 90 degree elbow on their dirrections for the system asmbly in res. Is that something I need to have too? What is the purpose of that? I heard that the water that sits in the bottom of the buckets keeps circulating all the time. Does that vacuum break have anything to do with that? I was thinking of just running my hoses straight in and out of the res and controller bucket. Do I need that twisted plastic to help hold the hoses up too? 

I bought the aquabub chicago ebb & flow do it your self bucket controller kit. It has five switches rather than 3 like CAP. It uses two on bottom and three on top. Two of the switches on the bottom set work as a pair to turn the pump on and off less, and they have the same design for the top ones too. They have two about one inch apart on the top so that once it is filled up to the middle switch on the top set the pump turns off until the lowest one in the top set is activated, then the pump turns on again. I like this design as it states it helps reduce the amount of cycling on/off that the pump does when filling and/or emptying. Is CAP set up like this in any way, or does it cycle on/off a lot as water moves in/out at the extreams, topping off and pumping out the rest of the water? If so then the pump may cycle on less for my system and nutrients will not filter over as much if I let the water sit like cap does in the grow pots. One thing I think might be the same is that this controller kit has the upper most switch as a backup switch incase the shut off switch fails it will help ensure the fill pump cuts off. 

Should just put hose clamps on all my hoses? I was wondering about how well the rubber grommets worked with barbed fittings, but thought any leaking my be more prone between the grommet and the fitting as it passes through the buckets, and I thought it was strange these are not secured better with silicone rubber. I figured I would just give the grommets a try, and that the system must work the way they have it, so just hose clamps as an upgrade on that one?

When thinking about the flush, why not just take an extra outer bucket with a few big wholes in the sides and use it to flush the hydroton out in the bath tub? I realize flushing with tap water is not a great idea, but it could save time as you would get a lot of faster fresh water continuously moving over the stones. Does the pH adjusted water just need to sit on the stone to loosen up the salts? My city water has a pH of about 7.5 which is not too far out of range which I have had to use in the past given all the near death experiences I have suffered through with the infestation of root/leaf mold. Maybe I am just used to how well my plants look in comparison after flushing with higher pH and a little chlorine, both which really helped to kill the molds and help control the problems in a soil based system. I have heard some people actually raise their pH a little in flushing to help clear nutrient salt build up. Is this the correct way to go about it? I have also heard of using a weak flush addive to help clear salts. The one time I tried it with a plant in soil the dam thing hummed and whistled the reaction was so violent. Wow, I thought I was sucking the life out of the plant. I figured it was some type of reaction the flush solution was having with either the dirt, the hydrogen peroxide I had flushed the roots with prior to the flush additive treatment, or that I was just sucking the nutrients right out of the plant backward and that it was screeming blue bloody murder at me for having done that, so I never used flush additives again for soil.


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## mrduke (Dec 5, 2010)

holy shit thats alot of questions.........


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## MIOMIOMI (Dec 5, 2010)

Nubby Tubbs, I built my own bucket cloner and it works just as good as any other system you can buy for a lot less. I also built a fogger cloner too, and that thing is great too. I took a black 3 gal bucket, put a 400 gal/min pump in the bottom with a 1/2" pvc manifold with red 360 degree screw in mister heads, about ten. That works really well, but blasts the water on the cuttings so the gel does not stick to cuttings, so I tried fogging. Oh, I also took a really strong fish tank air pump and hooked up a good 5" filter stone on bottom of areocloner bucket to oxygenate the water.

The fogger really is simple and easer to make. I now perfer this to the fancier areo cloning bucket system. You just buy a single head ultrasonnic fogger with the float it sits in off ebay. I paid something like $35 dollars for mine. Then, you get a really good air pump at the pet store with a 5" long high quality air stone. You take the 2" net pots and neopreme plugs and lay them out on your bucket lid and trace them with a marker. I then cut them with a 1 and 7/8th inch hole saw because the wholes come out a little bigger and using a 2" hole saw made the holes a little too loose and some water leaked around edges when it did it on my aero cloner bucket, but the spray is really strong on an aero cloner with high pressure spray jets. This bucket even a 2 inch hole saw would work OK. So, you then just take a pair of snips and snip inside the ring on bottom of net pots to open up your bottom so that the stems of cuttings can go down lower if you need them to. Drill small hole with step drill cutter so that rubber grommet that comes with ultrasonic power supply will fit tightly then pulled through underside of lid. Drill another small hole with step drip to cut size of hole that will snuggly hold fish tank air hose in top of lid too. There you go, now you have a great fogponnic cloner that will not blast the cloning gel off you cuttings and works just a well as any $400 machine. I have clones with these two setups even using the orange home depot buckets without any algy issues. The clones are always rooted well in 7 to 10 days.

I usually start the clones in the fogger until the tips of the roots show, so that the gel is not blasted off when I first cut them. Then I move them to the areoponnic bucket for faster root development. Then, I put them back into the fogger bucket on a cycle timer so that the roots have to open up more to seek water. The fogging cycle causes the roots to think they are in a dry pot needing to seek water so they start growing latterally if you then cycle them this way. This process takes a few weeks, three at the most, and you will have 99 to 100 percent success if you spray cutting leaves with a waxed cloning leaf prep solution, or trim back leaves more... I have also cloned in both with and without any hormones or solutions added and it works great too. I still use the gel even though it will work without it. I guess it roots a little faster that way, not sure I have really seen much of a differnce. Not buying the cloning solution additives anymore. Just pH adjust R/O water to around 6.8 to 7 works for me. 

I have cloned some really old nasty woody looking logs with just one leaf using the areo cloning bucket by the way, it just takes a little longer. One time I cut a long branch into a buch of sections and just suck them in the areo cloning bucket with cloning gel on the first and after about 2 weeks had nice roots from all cuttings, and they were in full flowering and woody looking bottom cuttings with little scruff leaves. I never use a humidity dome top and I have cloned them just sitting on the floor next to a window and even right under MH and HPS lights without using any spray sealants on leaves to reduce transpiration. Once I took a plant that fell over, full size 3 foot tall budding plant, washed the remaining dirt out of half the root system that was still intact, stuck it in my little 2 inch foam insert with all my little clones, took my aeroponnic bucket cloner and set it dirrectly under the HPS lights and that plant came right back to grow nice roots. These things don't have to be expensive to work, but you do have to have a drill, hole saw, pipe cutting tool, tap and die set for treading holes for screwing in misting jets... For the cost of a 30 cloning site system you can own the tools and build tons of different areoponnic/hydroponnic stuff. I found that Lowes had a much better sellection of 1/2 inch pvc pipe fittings and they are much better organized. They even have the jets, but you might not find the same red ones that are used in the areojet machines sold commercially. For those, pick them up at your local hydro source. You might want to consider using the smaller size net pots if you want to fit more sites on the top of the bucket lids. You can lay out 12 of the 2 inch net pots on a bucket lid, but I think you can layout around 19 or 20 of the next size down. I just didn't have any at the time I was building mine, so now I have two buckets and found having one areoponnic and one fogponnic makes for two types of systems that work well together.


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Dec 5, 2010)

First of all, I love that controller kit. I just bought one from Auqahub for $120. I agree with you. Since I raised my buckets up 1 1/2" to allow for full drainage, that had made my flood level lower as well. I used a 4gal square bucket this time, and with this kit, was able to place the level of my floods where "I" wanted them, which was were they were supposed to be if my buckets were still sitting level on the floor. Like you said, it also comes with 5 floats. These magnetic reed switchs in these floats are very sensitive, in fact, CAP as had to re-deisign this system a couple of times due to floats burning out. I like the seprate relays for the fill and drain and most of all the extra "over-flow" switch, just in case. Over all a better set-up for sure. After buying pumps and fittings, I saved only about $100. The CAP controller bucket comes with 2 pumps and all the fittings and runs around $260, but is no match for these kits for sure.

As far as the clamps go, I only used a clamp on the hose coming off the drain pump in the controller bucket lid. Mine liked to pop off there. Other than that, not a leak one. The grommets and barb fitting work great and do not need clamps. Just make sure the 1/2" line is all the way on the fitting and you should have no leaks.

AND YES!!!!! YOU NEED some sort of anti-siphon fitting coming off the fill pump INSIDE your res. You can take a straight barbed fitting and drill a 1/8" hole in it. Put in "in-line" with the hole POINTING DOWN. When your fill pump is running, there should be a stream of water coming out and going back into your res. This keeps your whole res from being siphoned out once your pump shuts off. You can use an elbow too, whatever works for your set-up. Just make sure that its there.

As far as the flush, that would work. If you are growing a perpetual crop in this system, and cannot flush due to other Ladies in the system that are not ready. DISCONNECT the buckets and cap the lines on the ones that are ready to be flushed and do so by hand for a week. Remember to disconnect them from the sytem though, you wouldn't want to defeat the pupose by having them still being fed nutes in-between your laborous flushs!!


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## Nubby Tubbs (Dec 6, 2010)

so i got my ebb and grow, and im putting it together and BOOM! it says there are 3 float switches in the directions, but my bucket only has 2. should i stop what im doing and get a different controller bucket???


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## JuzzSmOkeIt (Dec 6, 2010)

Nubby Tubbs said:


> so i got my ebb and grow, and im putting it together and BOOM! it says there are 3 float switches in the directions, but my bucket only has 2. should i stop what im doing and get a different controller bucket???


Each system is different. I have one CAP controller bucket that runs on 2 floats and the aquahub that has 5. I perferr the 5, but both work fine. I am sure that your "kit" should have everything you need to run this system, ofcourse unless it was supposed to come with 5 instead of 3. I assume that its a kit you have and not the CAP bucket because you said you have to put it together, the CAP is pretty much plug & play, only assemb. req. is basically grommets and fittings.


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## researchkitty (Dec 6, 2010)

Nubby Tubbs said:


> so i got my ebb and grow, and im putting it together and BOOM! it says there are 3 float switches in the directions, but my bucket only has 2. should i stop what im doing and get a different controller bucket???


The problem with two float switches is that it isnt very safe if one should fail. That's why its recommended to use two floats per level................... It'll be fine until its not. You can always buy a few more floats and just wire them in later, too. They just pigtail onto each other. Check out Aqualab's instructions on their E&F kit and it'll give you an idea of what wiring would be needed. It's a 10 minute job, max.  GL!


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## Nubby Tubbs (Dec 6, 2010)

thanks for the input dudes (ettes?). definitely gonna look into getting more float switches and wiring them in. as far as the brand, it is a CAP system...then the net pots have their name embossed. i even got some hotel sized BC BLOOM nutes haha. unfortunately this toy is gonna have to collect dust till spring when i get an electrician out. my 1000w is blowing circuits, and i need to get that worked out (in 3rd week of flower now). so...ill stay posted and learn up and apply what my limited brain can remember.


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## ears (Dec 6, 2010)

wow... sooo many questions. lets touch on the floats. the floats that come with the cap are .25 milli amps, this is a problem. float switches are known as reed switches. they work with a magnet, every time the go up and down there is a small spark. not a big deal until it welds the reed to the contact, turning the switch into a constant on.

far as clones, make sure your clones are planted 3/4" below to outside bucket. make sure you top off the inner bucket all the way to the top... why you ask? because this will keep the humidity down, the light off the nuts, and the fans from drying out the medium between feeds.

on the topic of hydroton.. try sillica stone, it is the shit.

and i will say it again look at the 5 gall growelf, they have a vid on youtube, and on their web site www.growelf.com

i hope kitty wont bite my head off for the growelf push


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## researchkitty (Dec 6, 2010)

ears said:


> i hope kitty wont bite my head off for the growelf push


   Good advice, too!


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## 2stoge (Dec 6, 2010)

Anyone have links to a 240v version of the "ebb and grow" buckets?


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## cheechee (Dec 8, 2010)

hey guys.. i want to do a 36 site.. 4 rows of 9 under 3000 watts. my situation is i need to veg at one house then transfer them to another house. my plan is to veg in 4'' rockwool cubes for a couple weeks under a 400 watt mh then transfer them to the other house.

i know i can't place the rockwool at the flood level, or i might get stem rot if the rockwool is constantly wet. if i place them rockwool cube a half inch above the flood level, i figure i'll have to veg for another week or two with 2000 watts 3' above the canopy in order to get some descent root mass in the buckets so the plants can take the full 3000 watts for flower.

am i on the right track??? i'd love to hear, 'no bro just throw the plant in the bucket with the cube a half inch above the water level and flip them to flower!'. if that will work i would prefer to take that route. they can grow big enough in the rockwool where i really won't need to veg for size, but instead for root mass in the containers. thanks!


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## researchkitty (Dec 8, 2010)

cheechee said:


> hey guys.. i want to do a 36 site.. 4 rows of 9 under 3000 watts. my situation is i need to veg at one house then transfer them to another house. my plan is to veg in 4'' rockwool cubes for a couple weeks under a 400 watt mh then transfer them to the other house.
> 
> i know i can't place the rockwool at the flood level, or i might get stem rot if the rockwool is constantly wet. if i place them rockwool cube a half inch above the flood level, i figure i'll have to veg for another week or two with 2000 watts 3' above the canopy in order to get some descent root mass in the buckets so the plants can take the full 3000 watts for flower.
> 
> am i on the right track??? i'd love to hear, 'no bro just throw the plant in the bucket with the cube a half inch above the water level and flip them to flower!'. if that will work i would prefer to take that route. they can grow big enough in the rockwool where i really won't need to veg for size, but instead for root mass in the containers. thanks!


This way will work. However, there's an easier way. Clone/seeds in 1" rockwool cubes, then veg them in the 4" or 5" square pots full of Hydroton. Then just put em in a big cardboard box to the new place and transplant them into the new Hydroton pots. It's actually the normal way to veg, just most people walk the plants to the flower room, you have to drive.


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## mrduke (Dec 8, 2010)

agreed with kitty in a flood table hydroton in small 1/2gal pots would be perfect. if you use net pots you can just throw the whole pot into the E&G bucket and let'er rip into flower. I always like a few bays after transplant before changing lights dont want to much change at once you know


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## shnkrmn (Dec 9, 2010)

I did this once and there are a couple reasons to avoid netpots. 1) it makes your root ball into an all you can eat buffet for fungus gnats; too many openings. 2) it's almost impossible to extract the netpot from the bucket after harvest because it's so involved with the roots up near the stem. Not that netpots can't be replaced, but the fungus gnat issue was way worse. Use 5 inch pots. The plant pops out of them for transplant no problem.















mrduke said:


> agreed with kitty in a flood table hydroton in small 1/2gal pots would be perfect. if you use net pots you can just throw the whole pot into the E&G bucket and let'er rip into flower. I always like a few bays after transplant before changing lights dont want to much change at once you know


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## mrduke (Dec 9, 2010)

damn those are some serious root how long was that veged for?


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## buddwasher (Dec 9, 2010)

only my 2nd grow but i am using ebb and flow ststem (i assume this is what u on about u call it cap ebb and grow ) btw i am in uk and we talk diff  lol

i used flood and drain in my first grow (about 8 yrs ago) not been settled since so no where to grow - now im back 

i raised buckets about 1-2 inch abouve res - i do worry about standing water and root mass just sitting in it but so far about 3 weeks into flowering all root nice and healthy - except one mother plant a m8 gave me that is 3 weeks ahead - slight browning of roots - but i tend to ingnore this plant as its out of sinc with rest of my crop

interesting to hear about peoples constant flushing - i should do more except my water pipes have froozen so until we get a thore i am stuck with just topping up res every 3 -4 days  

pump set to water x4 daily - at lights on then 3 times every 4 hrs till lights off and once in the middle of night - i actualy feel i could water just 3 x daily but following what others say 4 seems the norm

i am using canna hydo nutes - x2 600w MH - rock wool cubes in clay balls


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## shnkrmn (Dec 9, 2010)

mrduke said:


> damn those are some serious root how long was that veged for?


Those were grown from seed in flood and drain and are about 110 days old. Part of my mother herd. I just moved all of them (13) into ebb and grow buckets. Going to let them veg in there for a while too  I guess I'll flower them someday but I like flowering smaller plants since I only use 600W lights.


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## axl (Dec 9, 2010)

how long should i veg 12 sativas under 1000 watts from clone, 4x4 space?


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## doniawon (Dec 9, 2010)

axl said:


> how long should i veg 12 sativas under 1000 watts from clone, 4x4 space?


good luck with that.. i vote 1 day veg.


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## researchkitty (Dec 9, 2010)

buddwasher said:


> only my 2nd grow but i am using ebb and flow ststem (i assume this is what u on about u call it cap ebb and grow ) btw i am in uk and we talk diff  lol
> 
> i used flood and drain in my first grow (about 8 yrs ago) not been settled since so no where to grow - now im back
> 
> ...


Discontinue watering at night time. It is of no benefit to the plants. Its not a negative either, just a waste of water nutrients and electricity.

The reason your roots are happy is because of the H2O2 and airstones in your reservoir. They can sit in water all day long if there is oxygen in them!

For flushing, nobody here constantly flushes anything. Hydroton doesnt hold nutrients like soil does, so we dont just feed water for a week or two. You can do no flush, or water the last week if you want to save on nutrient money.

The Ebb & FLOW is for the flood and fill tables/trays.
The Ebb & GRO (GROW) is for bucket systems.

I kept calling them the wrong thing for a year after I grew with them. Its a confusing set of terms.  They should have called it Bucket Grow and all would be easily explained!


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## shnkrmn (Dec 10, 2010)

Flood and drain is sufficiently different to avoid the confusion with ebb and gro (which is a commercial product name, not precisely a method; trays or buckets, if you are pumping water to flood medium, and then draining it back to a reservoir, it's all the same thing)


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## mrduke (Dec 10, 2010)

yeah many people think that the ebb&gro is the same as trays, which it kinda is at least as far as the plant is concerned just a different name.


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## BiteSizeFreak (Dec 10, 2010)

So I'm new at this and was talking to a guy about this system but he doesn't like Rockwool. What else could a person use for clones or seedlings that would work well with this system? I'm sure this was probably answered about 50 pages ago but I REALLY don't want to go searching page by page for it, plus this gives someone the opportunity to feel smart! 

Thanks!


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## mrduke (Dec 10, 2010)

just about anything but soil works fine. aero ,rapid rooters , jiffy, oasis all work great


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## horsepower850 (Dec 11, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> I dont recommend discontinuing Hydroton use. My post suggests the OPPOSITE.  KEEP the Hydroton, DITCH the Coco.
> 
> The different bucket sizes is a real bitch. I have 2 gallon, 2.5 gallon, 3.5 gallon and 5 gallon sizes all scattered around. For 8000 watts of lights I'm sticking with 16 plants per light and 2 gallon buckets and those will be here in a week (Check the grow journal sig, we'll eventually be up to 24,000 watts of light and a few hundred plants plus a mushroom op). Even some of the same capacity buckets dont fit the same size, they fit the original bucket it came with so you just have to keep them together as a pair.


Do you think it will shock the plants to switch from coco to straight hydroton in week 2?


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## researchkitty (Dec 11, 2010)

horsepower850 said:


> Do you think it will shock the plants to switch from coco to straight hydroton in week 2?



Yes, that would be severe shock for them. Continue as you have, just go Hydroton next run.


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## horsepower850 (Dec 11, 2010)

Yeah I will for sure. I have about 75% with coco and the remainder in hydroton. The coco ladies are about 2 weeks ahead of the hydroton ladies. I'm hoping the hydroton ladies will catch up with the coco girls.


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## researchkitty (Dec 12, 2010)

Errrr, if you have two harvests two weeks apart, are you separating nutrients for them? Hope so.  Each week is different amounts of different stuff!


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## horsepower850 (Dec 13, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Errrr, if you have two harvests two weeks apart, are you separating nutrients for them? Hope so.  Each week is different amounts of different stuff!


yes I have 3 different resivoirs for different nutes when needed. Now I'm having to figure out the timing of water schedule for the ladies in straight hydroton. What do you suggest? I just transplanted them 3 days ago. I keep having to add water to the mix because the ppm keeps raising even though I'm cutting my solution by half every time with pure water. I'm guessing the hydroton is still settleing in and all the excess dust is washing back into the resivoir. I've been watering for 15 minutes every 3 hours when the lights are on. Is this too much?


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## researchkitty (Dec 13, 2010)

horsepower850 said:


> yes I have 3 different resivoirs for different nutes when needed. Now I'm having to figure out the timing of water schedule for the ladies in straight hydroton. What do you suggest? I just transplanted them 3 days ago. I keep having to add water to the mix because the ppm keeps raising even though I'm cutting my solution by half every time with pure water. I'm guessing the hydroton is still settleing in and all the excess dust is washing back into the resivoir. I've been watering for 15 minutes every 3 hours when the lights are on. Is this too much?


In veg I water once a day. In flower I water once or twice a day till week 5 then twice a day till they are done.

You M*U*S*T rinse Hydroton before you use it. The dirt and grime will gum up your pumps and make a nasty mess. Also wash/rinse it between harvests, too. Dead roots will cause root rot for you which is also no good 

If your ppm keeps rising, by say more than 100, then your plants are drinking more than they are eating per say. Your humidity may be low causing the plants just to transpire constantly (40-60% humidity, please!) or it might just be too high of a ppm or ph off causing nutrient lockout.

Your PPM should be very stable, lowering only really when you top off the reservoir. For every 1 plant you want to have about 2 gallons of reservoir space as a rule of thumb, but depends on your pot size.


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## mrduke (Dec 13, 2010)

hey kitty you really only water once in veg and twice in flower?????

I've always waterd 4 times a light cycle in veg and flower. 

why so little water in veg?


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## BiteSizeFreak (Dec 13, 2010)

mrduke said:


> just about anything but soil works fine. aero ,rapid rooters , jiffy, oasis all work great


So if you use the aero cloner method how do you get them into the hydroton without freaking them out or messing them up or something? Thanks!


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## mrduke (Dec 13, 2010)

you drop them in a bucket and fill it up with hydrton.


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## boxing119 (Dec 13, 2010)

I was wondering what every one is yielding out of there system... I always hear about people getting 8-12 ozs a plant with 4 week veg time... I veg all mine 4-5 weeks and am only getting on avarage 3-4 ozs a plant... is this normal or should i be trying something else. I dont trim or or FIM my plants i just let them grow... any tips


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## BiteSizeFreak (Dec 13, 2010)

mrduke said:


> you drop them in a bucket and fill it up with hydrton.


They don't freak out going from an aero cloner to getting tossed into hydroton?


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## researchkitty (Dec 13, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> I was wondering what every one is yielding out of there system... I always hear about people getting 8-12 ozs a plant with 4 week veg time... I veg all mine 4-5 weeks and am only getting on avarage 3-4 ozs a plant... is this normal or should i be trying something else. I dont trim or or FIM my plants i just let them grow... any tips


For me a 4 week veg time yielded 4oz per plant for 32oz per 1000w lamp. I run 16 plants per 1000w with just a week and a half veg now.



BiteSizeFreak said:


> So if you use the aero cloner method how do you get them into the hydroton without freaking them out or messing them up or something? Thanks!


First, fill the bucket with hydroton about half way. Then fill the bucket with water. Dunk other plant right in it and add Hydroton till its full. Minimal shock if any a day or two till they look perfect again. Standard way you transplant from Hydroton to Hydroton too. The whole plants hangin in your hands like you ripped someones skull and spine out of their body. 



mrduke said:


> hey kitty you really only water once in veg and twice in flower?????
> 
> I've always waterd 4 times a light cycle in veg and flower.
> 
> why so little water in veg?


Do they need more? Will they grow more or faster if I let them drink more? I mean we water em once every 3 days in Rockwool, so once a day in Hydroton doesnt seem little... I've just gone by what worked for me, if its wrong let me know!!  I also take a half hour to flood them rather than 15 minutes, but thats due to plant volume and so many buckets...........


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## mrduke (Dec 14, 2010)

ido about the same as you -boxing-. i veg for 2-3 weeks and end up just under 3 zips per site with 8 under a 1000. would be sweet to get 8-12 but i bont know how, thats a lot off a indoor plant


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## researchkitty (Dec 14, 2010)

mrduke said:


> ido about the same as you -boxing-. i veg for 2-3 weeks and end up just under 3 zips per site with 8 under a 1000. would be sweet to get 8-12 but i bont know how, thats a lot off a indoor plant


More plants....................... and a little less veg time................... That'll get you close to 2lbs per light............ (1000watts of course)


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## mrduke (Dec 14, 2010)

hey kitty thought you might be interested in my new grow " https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/391403-dukes-3000w-purple-stadium.html " you aint never senn a E&G like this.


and no i'm not just shamelessly plugging my thread......but i kinda am


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## legallyflying (Dec 14, 2010)

BiteSizeFreak said:


> They don't freak out going from an aero cloner to getting tossed into hydroton?


This is how I do it, no freak out at all. Actually pretty slick and space saving way to clone.


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## legallyflying (Dec 14, 2010)

Hey there ebb and grow clan, looking for any last minute advice on my DIY bucket grow system. I've treid to read all 111 pages but christ man, I probably missed something along the way. I'm building a 12 site system out of 4 gallon square food grade buckets. I purchased this controller kit = http://www.aquahub.com/store/product39.html and I have a 50 gallon drum rez. I made the following changes from the run of the mill ebb/flow kit. again, if you have any real world experience that would be great. 

The main supply lines are 3/4 and there is a t at each bucket that feed individual buckets with 1/2" line. (changed to provide faster flood and drain).
I sealed the grommet hose junction with silicone (to fix some of the dripping/leaking that others have had.
All the buckets are raised an 1 1/2" higher than the control bucket (to allow it to drain back).
I have opaque lids for each bucket.
I am planning to but river rock in the bottom of the flood buckets to help prevent root clogging and roots in stagnant water (my buckets have about 3" of air beneath the bottom of the flood bucket and bottom of the plant bucket).
I painted all the flood buckets opaque.
I am making the connections between buckets (3/4) a little longer than needed for a little more flexibility in moving things around.


Any other tips? Thanks a bunch!!


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## researchkitty (Dec 14, 2010)

I just did the AquaLab controller for my setup yesterday (signature has link to grow journal)........ It's post 180 or somewhere around there, the thread gets long fast lol...........

Good idea on the 3/4 to speed it up..............

Dont worry about buckets being too high so it all drains back. The H2O2 in your water will keep the roots that grow past the buckets hydroton through the bottom holes alive...........

That's all I can think of!


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## mrduke (Dec 14, 2010)

i would supply each bucket with 3/4 line, reduceing it to 1/2 at the bucket will negate having 3/4 feeds as you'll only drain what can flow out of 1/2". 

IDK if you need the river rock or not if your planing to veg real long,like 2-3 months then maybe but under normal veg of 3-5 weeks there is no need, even in th 2g buckets. you can always trim the roots if there starting to get too crazy

when you say the buckets are opaque i hope that means no light gets in..... if light goes threw algee WILL grow.

Other than that sound like your on the right track good luck


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## legallyflying (Dec 15, 2010)

Thanks for the tips. A little too late on the 1/2" inlets...already Bought them and cut the holes. I don't know if it will actually negate the 3/4 feed line though as I have 6 buckets per feed line so that's 6 1/2 running into one 3/4 which can carry alot more water than a single 1/2 could. 

Yeah, the buckets are opaque now after two coats of paint . Big PIA but hell I got 42 buckets for $30 so a little elbow grease is not much of a bother. Total 12 site set up for under $200. Fairly happy so far but then again, it's not done yet.


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## mrduke (Dec 15, 2010)

you might try wrapping the outer buckets with reflective bubble wrap, they have it at all home improvment stores in the heat/ac area. it will insulate them too


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## researchkitty (Dec 15, 2010)

mrduke said:


> you might try wrapping the outer buckets with reflective bubble wrap, they have it at all home improvment stores in the heat/ac area. it will insulate them too


I'd scare the shit out of myself from kicking them all the time.


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## legallyflying (Dec 15, 2010)

LOL. THat bubble wrap shit is expensive (if your taking about the insulation stuff) I will say though that that shit is an AWESOME radiant heat barrier. I wrapped my heating ducts in the basement with it last year. They are cool to the touch, even when the heat has been cranking. Been thinking about making some covers for my hoods with it but they run so cool with am ducting that its probably not worth it. 

Now if only they would create a non heat generating dehumidifier....


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## researchkitty (Dec 15, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> LOL. THat bubble wrap shit is expensive (if your taking about the insulation stuff) I will say though that that shit is an AWESOME radiant heat barrier. I wrapped my heating ducts in the basement with it last year. They are cool to the touch, even when the heat has been cranking. Been thinking about making some covers for my hoods with it but they run so cool with am ducting that its probably not worth it.
> 
> Now if only they would create a non heat generating dehumidifier....


They do, buy about 20 Lbs of Sillica Dessicant. You'll have to activate it in the oven at 250(f) for 12 hours every month, but it'll remove a lot of humidity. Need more humidity removed still? Buy another 5 lbs! Just blow the rooms air from a fan pointed at the dessicant.


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## BiteSizeFreak (Dec 16, 2010)

Okay so if I recall reading though this correctly there are quite a few mentions of using H202 in this system but I don't recall what % and how many ml to litre? Thanks!


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## horsepower850 (Dec 16, 2010)

BiteSizeFreak said:


> Okay so if I recall reading though this correctly there are quite a few mentions of using H202 in this system but I don't recall what % and how many ml to litre? Thanks!


 I usually use 2 ml per gallon of the 30% H2O2. It works great.


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## mrduke (Dec 16, 2010)

agreed any were between 1 and 3 ml. i and it every 3rd day


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## researchkitty (Dec 16, 2010)

I toss in 150mL for every 55 gallon reservoir of mine............. Every Monday is nutrient change day, so I add it then and then usually Thursday or Friday again................ 2x weekly

You cant add too much H2O2, I used to just toss in 400ml each time and it did nothing different than the 150ml............


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## BiteSizeFreak (Dec 16, 2010)

Thank you all! Except you Kitty...you know cause of that whole being "Canadian" thing...


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## researchkitty (Dec 16, 2010)

BiteSizeFreak said:


> Thank you all! Except you Kitty...you know cause of that whole being "Canadian" thing...


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## 2stoge (Dec 17, 2010)

buddwasher said:


> only my 2nd grow but i am using ebb and flow ststem (i assume this is what u on about u call it cap ebb and grow ) btw i am in uk and we talk diff  lol


buddwasher do you have a 240v version of the ebb and grow? if so, please post a link to where you got it. I have been looking for a 240v version for a long time with no luck.


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## researchkitty (Dec 17, 2010)

http://www.amazon.com/One-Voltage-Converter-240V-120V/dp/B000E5W6ZI

Its $12 to get the 120v to 240v adapter....................... That may not be the one you need but they are all sorts of sizes and configs and all around the same price, pretty generic adapter used worldwide by business travelers to use laptops in many countries etc................


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## cooley150 (Dec 20, 2010)

legallyflying said:


> This is how I do it, no freak out at all. Actually pretty slick and space saving way to clone.



I have a question about that.... I have a DIY aeroponicis cloner/veg unit. No sure if your familiar with "Stinkbud" and his aeroponic units, but that's what it is. I have 12 plants that have grown out of control in this unit and all the roots are matted together. I was planning on transferring these plants into the Eb & Gro, but I don't know if it's possible to separate the roots without F*%king up the plants. Is there any way I can save these plants?

on a second note I was also thinking about doing a Scrog. is this what you did with the Ebb & Gro? I'll be reading your journal after this post...lol


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## smokey dabear (Dec 21, 2010)

yea ive been veggin in net pots in a 4by4 tay with hydroton for 3 weeks an then puttin them in buckets been workin great!! i was usin RW to veg but RW seems like a nightmare with bugs an they constantly hold moisture


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## researchkitty (Dec 21, 2010)

cooley150 said:


> I have a question about that.... I have a DIY aeroponicis cloner/veg unit. No sure if your familiar with "Stinkbud" and his aeroponic units, but that's what it is. I have 12 plants that have grown out of control in this unit and all the roots are matted together. I was planning on transferring these plants into the Eb & Gro, but I don't know if it's possible to separate the roots without F*%king up the plants. Is there any way I can save these plants?
> 
> on a second note I was also thinking about doing a Scrog. is this what you did with the Ebb & Gro? I'll be reading your journal after this post...lol


If the roots are matted together, you must be *very* careful when trying to "un-matte" them........ Soak them in water completely and then slowly, slowly, try to move them apart. You'll be guaranteed to shred some roots but after a few days the transplants should be fine. It may even take up to a week. It may also kill them, so I'd probably snip some new clones or plant some new seeds just in case............

I remember this often from my first grow in a grow box that used a rockwool/netpot situation, but they flowered this way so it wasnt a big deal................

Transplants to Hydroton are often very forgiving


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## shnkrmn (Dec 21, 2010)

I have had roots get pretty tangled in an aerocloner when I took a longer trip than planned last summer. Kitty's right. you will be able to separate them pretty safely if you get them very wet and work very slowly. Patience is the key. Roots are very strong and they grow amazingly fast.

The most difficult part was getting them out of the unit because they had gotten so tangled with the sprayer manifold, so I could barely get a hand inside to work. Once the lid got free and I could see what I was doing things went better.

Obviously you want to minimize breakage close to the stem.


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## cooley150 (Dec 21, 2010)

Thank you Kitty and shnkrmn....you give me hope. I have 12 beautiful Blue cheese plants that look like small trees. The stalks are a little bigger then the diameter of a nickle, I would hate to lose them. I should have never let them get so out of control, but they just grew so fast. 

I do have another question.... When transplanting them into the Ebb & Gro should I keep them in the veg cycle for a week or two before I put them on 12/12, to let them recover from the shock and also what about nutes? I currently use GH 3 part flora series and was planing on doing the Lucas formula in bloom. should I run straight water right after transplant or use some sort of nutes?


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## researchkitty (Dec 21, 2010)

cooley150 said:


> Thank you Kitty and shnkrmn....you give me hope. I have 12 beautiful Blue cheese plants that look like small trees. The stalks are a little bigger then the diameter of a nickle, I would hate to lose them. I should have never let them get so out of control, but they just grew so fast.
> 
> I do have another question.... When transplanting them into the Ebb & Gro should I keep them in the veg cycle for a week or two before I put them on 12/12, to let them recover from the shock and also what about nutes? I currently use GH 3 part flora series and was planing on doing the Lucas formula in bloom. should I run straight water right after transplant or use some sort of nutes?


I transplant from 1 gallon pots, dangle the plant by the roots in my hand, toss it in a 2 gallon pot in the flower room then right to 1000ppm and 12/12. The first few weeks of flowering is boring, so the transplant stress right at the beginning is a non issue......... No need to use water just right to flower nutes.


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## cooley150 (Dec 22, 2010)

Thank you kitty..... Oh and by the way I just got done reading your commercial grow journal and subscribed. All I can say is WOW!!! You really seem to know your shit and I'm grateful to have someone like you to learn from. 

I am curious about the control bucket you made. Does it work the same as the control bucket that comes with the Ebb & Gro? I've been looking for an inexpensive way to make another set up for veg to make it easier to transfer my plants to the flower room instead of the aeroponicics unit I veg in now. I have the 2 gallon buckets already and you stated that you get 55 gallon res from Craig s list for like $15 all I need is the control bucket and I'm set. I believe it was Aquahub?


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## 2stoge (Dec 22, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> http://www.amazon.com/One-Voltage-Converter-240V-120V/dp/B000E5W6ZI
> 
> Its $12 to get the 120v to 240v adapter....................... That may not be the one you need but they are all sorts of sizes and configs and all around the same price, pretty generic adapter used worldwide by business travelers to use laptops in many countries etc................


Thanks Kitty, I figured I would have to get a transformer for it, I just kind of figured someone offered a 240v version already.


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## Gray Haired Grower (Dec 24, 2010)

Hi all...this is an introduction post as I'm new to this way of growing. I purchased a EBB-12 system a month or so ago and as u can see by my profile I've been around and been dirt farming for over 40 years. I got tired of hauling all the dirt around so thought I'd give hydro a try...Started some old mexican dirt weed seed I had around just for practice and glad I did because right off I over-fertilized them..I'm waiting out a conflick I have with the ATTITUDE & SERIOUS SEED BANKS about some bad seed. Anywho, just saying hi to all and thanks for all the info I gained thru reading these 115 pages...Have a great HOLIDAY SEASON and I'll be back after...


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## researchkitty (Dec 24, 2010)

cooley150 said:


> Thank you kitty..... Oh and by the way I just got done reading your commercial grow journal and subscribed. All I can say is WOW!!! You really seem to know your shit and I'm grateful to have someone like you to learn from.
> 
> I am curious about the control bucket you made. Does it work the same as the control bucket that comes with the Ebb & Gro? I've been looking for an inexpensive way to make another set up for veg to make it easier to transfer my plants to the flower room instead of the aeroponicics unit I veg in now. I have the 2 gallon buckets already and you stated that you get 55 gallon res from Craig s list for like $15 all I need is the control bucket and I'm set. I believe it was Aquahub?


Thanks!

AquaHub is who I buy my control box parts from. Just buy the Ebb & Grow kit, its everything you need except the actual bucket, lid for bucket, fittings and grommets for the bucket.

If you make your own controller ($110) and buy a 55 gallon blue reservoir from craigslist $15-$20 each) and buy buckets for $5 each it makes you wonder what the fuck C.A.P. charges so much for. Well, I know the answer -- convenience and you dont have to make it. Whether or not that convienence is worth $550 to C.A.P. is their concern I guess! 

The only complaint I have via veg and round buckets is that the roundness of them make them lose a lot of useable space. I'd rather go square 5" plastic pots so I can fit more in there. Beyond that I'm pretty happy with it.......... Good luck!


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## Tamorin (Dec 24, 2010)

THE BEST SYSTEM EVER !! That was a bit much but i got it hooked up to 5 gallon pots with grodan man talk monster yield. Iuse geneeral hydroproducs line and keep it simple method. Awesome results with the contriversial superthrive man we got over 4 lbs. on 9 plants with co2 on 2 hps 1000 watts . Im hooked for life good luck other people with all that wierd stuff this is it for me. now Im doing 12 plants in the 2 gallons pots the system came with 2 into flowering im still happy with the number of tops im seeing there all bushy and happy.


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## doniawon (Dec 27, 2010)

Tamorin said:


> THE BEST SYSTEM EVER !! That was a bit much but i got it hooked up to 5 gallon pots with grodan man talk monster yield. Iuse geneeral hydroproducs line and keep it simple method. Awesome results with the contriversial superthrive man we got over 4 lbs. on 9 plants with co2 on 2 hps 1000 watts . Im hooked for life good luck other people with all that wierd stuff this is it for me. now Im doing 12 plants in the 2 gallons pots the system came with 2 into flowering im still happy with the number of tops im seeing there all bushy and happy.


how long did you veg for? and what kinda grodan. cubes croutouns what size? Good input on the 5 gallon upgrades.


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## doniawon (Dec 27, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Thanks!
> 
> AquaHub is who I buy my control box parts from. Just buy the Ebb & Grow kit, its everything you need except the actual bucket, lid for bucket, fittings and grommets for the bucket.
> 
> ...


Kitty,do you got a link for the diy controller with the aquahub parts?


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## researchkitty (Dec 27, 2010)

doniawon said:


> Kitty,do you got a link for the diy controller with the aquahub parts?



aquahub.com?


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## doniawon (Dec 27, 2010)

all i can say to that diy controller is .. FUCKYEAH. thanks again kitty.


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## horsepower850 (Dec 28, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Thanks!
> 
> AquaHub is who I buy my control box parts from. Just buy the Ebb & Grow kit, its everything you need except the actual bucket, lid for bucket, fittings and grommets for the bucket.
> 
> ...


Yea I bought the control bucket kit from Aqua Hub and it is awesome and I got to build it. Has more safety switches than the CAP controller bucket. I built my system for about half the price of the ready to assemble system.


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## BiteSizeFreak (Dec 28, 2010)

My plants are less than 6 inches tall and have a bunch of roots growing out of the bottom and sitting in the standing water. One plant has over 8 inches of roots growing out of the bottom of the inner bucket. Any tips?


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## researchkitty (Dec 28, 2010)

BiteSizeFreak said:


> My plants are less than 6 inches tall and have a bunch of roots growing out of the bottom and sitting in the standing water. One plant has over 8 inches of roots growing out of the bottom of the inner bucket. Any tips?


As long as you water them every day and replenish the reservoir with H202 and have air stones 1 watt per gallon of water in the rez you should be fine. The 8 inches you can trim, or try to re-transplant the plant back in the bucket by yanking it out and resetting it.


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## BiteSizeFreak (Dec 28, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> As long as you water them every day and replenish the reservoir with H202 and have air stones 1 watt per gallon of water in the rez you should be fine. The 8 inches you can trim, or try to re-transplant the plant back in the bucket by yanking it out and resetting it.


As always the Canadian Kitty delivers! They're being watered at 9AM, 5PM, and 1AM for 15 minutes with my lights running from 9AM to 3AM. I've been adding H202 every third day and have 2 12" air stones in my reservoir which at this point I only fill to 80 liters since its only running 12 pots and they aren't drinking that much. All that sound groovy?


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## researchkitty (Dec 28, 2010)

All sounds groovy.  The air stones size doesnt matter, what does matter is how much air is pushed through the stones..... Look on the back of your air pump, if it says 24 watts, then its good for 24 gallons worth of water through whatever air stone size and shape you like. Granted, its not like your plants will mutate or die if the wattage isnt matched per gallon, but that's the easy rule of thumb for adding the most usable oxygen to your mix of nutrients and water..........

The watering schedule is good, but you might change the 9am watering to 10am or so, an hour after lights are on is the rule of thumb.......... You spaced it out evenly, which is nice too.


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## boxing119 (Dec 28, 2010)

Hey i got a new controller unit from cap works fine but the drain pump keeps switching on every 5 seconds and not pumping any water out... and ideas what this could be?


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## cooley150 (Dec 28, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> If the roots are matted together, you must be *very* careful when trying to "un-matte" them........ Soak them in water completely and then slowly, slowly, try to move them apart. You'll be guaranteed to shred some roots but after a few days the transplants should be fine. It may even take up to a week. It may also kill them, so I'd probably snip some new clones or plant some new seeds just in case............
> 
> I remember this often from my first grow in a grow box that used a rockwool/netpot situation, but they flowered this way so it wasnt a big deal................
> 
> Transplants to Hydroton are often very forgiving




I'm VERY HAPPY to report that the transplant went well.... TOOK FOREVER to untangle all the roots and I busted a lot of them, but they all seem to have survived. I left my light on all night after the transplant and when I woke up in the morning 10 0f the 12 were all perked up and the leaves were reaching toward the light. 2 were very droopy, but I ran a feeding cycle and they perked up right away. I think they just needed a drink...lol


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## researchkitty (Dec 28, 2010)

boxing119 said:


> Hey i got a new controller unit from cap works fine but the drain pump keeps switching on every 5 seconds and not pumping any water out... and ideas what this could be?


Make sure your floats are level. They twist and turn pretty easily. (My future float references are with regard to the BOTTOM TWO floats of the controller, not the upper top ones) If you hold the bottom float up and top float down, nothing should happen. Top float and bottom float up, it should try to drain. When the bottom and top float then hit bottom, it stops draining.

If the floats are level, it could be 'stuck' and that would mean you need to replace the second float from the bottom, as that being "on" all the time would cause the pump to drain and turn off every time the bottom float gets water near it.

The dual floats serve as a way to pump out a few inches of water, and then stop, refill, and them pump some more out. If it was just one float, you get this constant on/off cycle that just burns up pumps.

If I didnt describe this correctly, let me know, but I think I got it =)



cooley150 said:


> I'm VERY HAPPY to report that the transplant went well.... TOOK FOREVER to untangle all the roots and I busted a lot of them, but they all seem to have survived. I left my light on all night after the transplant and when I woke up in the morning 10 0f the 12 were all perked up and the leaves were reaching toward the light. 2 were very droopy, but I ran a feeding cycle and they perked up right away. I think they just needed a drink...lol


Congrats! If your transplanting to flower mode, go ahead and hit em with 12/12 and nutrients right away. Its not unusual to lose say 5% of your roots give or take. They wont miss em, they'll be growing for 5 more weeks of flower still.


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## Ferredoxin (Dec 29, 2010)

cooley150 said:


> I have a question about that.... I have a DIY aeroponicis cloner/veg unit. No sure if your familiar with "Stinkbud" and his aeroponic units, but that's what it is. I have 12 plants that have grown out of control in this unit and all the roots are matted together. I was planning on transferring these plants into the Eb & Gro, but I don't know if it's possible to separate the roots without F*%king up the plants. Is there any way I can save these plants?
> 
> on a second note I was also thinking about doing a Scrog. is this what you did with the Ebb & Gro? I'll be reading your journal after this post...lol


Just gonna chime in here.....

I have a DIY aero cloner also. I got into a similar situation with the roots. I actually decided to cut them out, and only leave about 3" of roots on each cutting. I transplanted them to soil, and they produced some very nice crop. They didnt seem too shocked by the whole situation. I will offer this up as a suggestion if you cant wiggle them out.


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## cooley150 (Dec 29, 2010)

Ferredoxin said:


> Just gonna chime in here.....
> 
> I have a DIY aero cloner also. I got into a similar situation with the roots. I actually decided to cut them out, and only leave about 3" of roots on each cutting. I transplanted them to soil, and they produced some very nice crop. They didnt seem too shocked by the whole situation. I will offer this up as a suggestion if you cant wiggle them out.



Good to know....Thanks FERREDOXIN.


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## cooley150 (Dec 29, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> Make sure your floats are level. They twist and turn pretty easily. (My future float references are with regard to the BOTTOM TWO floats of the controller, not the upper top ones) If you hold the bottom float up and top float down, nothing should happen. Top float and bottom float up, it should try to drain. When the bottom and top float then hit bottom, it stops draining.
> 
> If the floats are level, it could be 'stuck' and that would mean you need to replace the second float from the bottom, as that being "on" all the time would cause the pump to drain and turn off every time the bottom float gets water near it.
> 
> ...


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## mrduke (Dec 30, 2010)

hey guys I've been trying to think of a way to pre- veg my plants so that i dont have to veg in the E&G buckets anyone do this? I'd like toveg them in like 1 gal or enen smaller pots. just dont know how to water them in straight hydroton with without haveing them in a flood table, my veg area is a weird size that tables wont fit in. any ideas????

I thought about maybe veging in coco then transplanting to buckets filled with hyroton just dont know if the coco will filter thru in to the res and F up my pumps????


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## i81two (Dec 30, 2010)

I go from clone to a 1x1 rw cube that plugs into a 6x6 cube that gets fed 2x daily in veg then when its goes to flower i put the 6x6 right into the EG bucket. It fits tightly and works great.


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## mrduke (Dec 30, 2010)

Me and RW really dont get along. Im leaning towards coco but dont know how it will effect the E&G system, pumps ect....?


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## Stonetech (Dec 30, 2010)

mrduke said:


> hey guys I've been trying to think of a way to pre- veg my plants so that i dont have to veg in the E&G buckets anyone do this? I'd like toveg them in like 1 gal or enen smaller pots. just dont know how to water them in straight hydroton with without haveing them in a flood table, my veg area is a weird size that tables wont fit in. any ideas????
> 
> I thought about maybe veging in coco then transplanting to buckets filled with hyroton just dont know if the coco will filter thru in to the res and F up my pumps????


You could use i gallon pots ebb n gro style in place of the flood table, it could be any shape you want just make a table for it to sit on that fits your area. you could put the res underneath and run a flood and drain fitting to the control bucket (instead of float switches) just like you would with a flood table. It would eliminate the need for a second pump/float switches and also require a much smaller res than a flood table.


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## researchkitty (Dec 30, 2010)

mrduke said:


> hey guys I've been trying to think of a way to pre- veg my plants so that i dont have to veg in the E&G buckets anyone do this? I'd like toveg them in like 1 gal or enen smaller pots. just dont know how to water them in straight hydroton with without haveing them in a flood table, my veg area is a weird size that tables wont fit in. any ideas????
> 
> I thought about maybe veging in coco then transplanting to buckets filled with hyroton just dont know if the coco will filter thru in to the res and F up my pumps????


I do that now. Cubes to Party cups to 1 gallon pots to 2 gallon pots. All in my grow journal.....

Dont use coco in buckets. Why doesnt rockwool and you get along? It usually works right, its the user that has difficulty......


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## MedHeadGRWR (Dec 31, 2010)

C.A.P. Users I have a Question I hope you can help with.

I want to run 4 flood tables each one would be 6' x 3'...the main issue is I want my res outside my room and would love to have my tables very low to the ground (like maybe 1 foot off the ground).

Is there a way I could get the C.A.P. controller to do this for me? I already have the tables and can get plastic 55 gallon drums for $10 in my area...just need to figure out how I can successfully flood and drain. I am pretty sure the CAP controller is the answer I just want to verify and find out the best way to set it up. Thanks in advance guys.

Pic of the controller I am thinking of


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## mrduke (Dec 31, 2010)

cap makes a different controler, which is the one you want. Its the adc-1 similar to the one pictured but made for just what you want and less money. hope it helps. link http://www.randmsupply.com/productdisp.php?pid=730&navid=68


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## mrduke (Dec 31, 2010)

researchkitty said:


> I do that now. Cubes to Party cups to 1 gallon pots to 2 gallon pots. All in my grow journal.....
> 
> Dont use coco in buckets. Why doesnt rockwool and you get along? It usually works right, its the user that has difficulty......


Miss kitty-- have you ever used the RW croutons or chuncks? Ya see my problem is I want to veg in what i use as my mother cabinet which is only 40"x20"x 5' tall so i need a medium that i can hand water and still transplant to the ebb buckets. As far as not getting along with RW mostly thats when taking clones I have never used it as a sole grow medium. do you have any suggestions???


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## MedHeadGRWR (Dec 31, 2010)

Mr Duke, Thanks for the link and I did see that one as well. Basically that will drain for me correct. Can you possibly explain how it will work since gravity obviously will not be doing the draining like most flood tables do? I sort of have an idea in my head but have never witness how these work first hand. Thanks again and +rep


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## i81two (Dec 31, 2010)

I dont understand why u would use a tray with ebb and grow system. Just put your pots on the floor and let your controller do the rest.

You can hand water RW 2x a day and be fine.


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## MedHeadGRWR (Dec 31, 2010)

Because my table is going to be setup like the one in the pic...I have 92 clones going right now (check my sig for more details). This round is soil and next round I want to get more plants per sq ft








EDIT: I also don't have time to hand water 2x a day 100+ plants


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## mrduke (Dec 31, 2010)

MEDHEAD- if you setup a manifold drip type system with 1" pvc coming off a 6-700 gph pump in your res. top feeding your 96 plants in 1 gallon pots filled with hydroton or medium of your choice. Then connect a drain line from the drain of the table running into the cap ADC-1 controler, which will have to have a pump in it to pump the water back to the res. the ADC kinda works like a inline pump but has sensors soit only pumps when water is present. you would have to have your table about 1' off the floor to allow for the height of the ADC. BUt i do think this would make what you want happen. Unless you really need the table ON the floor, then i dont know. 


any ideas on veging in coco or rw croutons???? hand watering


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## researchkitty (Dec 31, 2010)

mrduke said:


> Miss kitty-- have you ever used the RW croutons or chuncks? Ya see my problem is I want to veg in what i use as my mother cabinet which is only 40"x20"x 5' tall so i need a medium that i can hand water and still transplant to the ebb buckets. As far as not getting along with RW mostly thats when taking clones I have never used it as a sole grow medium. do you have any suggestions???


You can hand water Hydroton. If you use rockwool "croutons" (the little cubes that you pour in a bucket) then they will retain so much moisture you'll drown the roots and have nice dead plants. Not too fun. Use Hydroton, use it exclusively, and nothing else. 



mrduke said:


> cap makes a different controler, which is the one you want. Its the adc-1 similar to the one pictured but made for just what you want and less money. hope it helps. link http://www.randmsupply.com/productdisp.php?pid=730&navid=68


I drain to a 35 gallon rubbermaid tub that was $5 at WalMart. That tub then drains to a 55 galon reservoir. Its in my grow journal of course. Keeping a flood tray off the floor by one foot with a limited amount of tray space and floor space makes it hard...........

The square reservoirs they make specifically FOR the trays are about 18" off the ground give or take. Only complaint is they are expensive, around $150 just for the tray and then more for the lids still!


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## MedHeadGRWR (Dec 31, 2010)

mrduke said:


> MEDHEAD- if you setup a manifold drip type system with 1" pvc coming off a 6-700 gph pump in your res. top feeding your 96 plants in 1 gallon pots filled with hydroton or medium of your choice. Then connect a drain line from the drain of the table running into the cap ADC-1 controler, which will have to have a pump in it to pump the water back to the res. the ADC kinda works like a inline pump but has sensors soit only pumps when water is present. you would have to have your table about 1' off the floor to allow for the height of the ADC. BUt i do think this would make what you want happen. Unless you really need the table ON the floor, then i dont know.
> 
> Perfect answer. Now I think I know what I need to do...a little more research and I will post back here when I get it completely sorted out. Just needed to make sure the ADC did what I thought it did.





researchkitty said:


> I drain to a 35 gallon rubbermaid tub that was $5 at WalMart. That tub then drains to a 55 galon reservoir. Its in my grow journal of course. Keeping a flood tray off the floor by one foot with a limited amount of tray space and floor space makes it hard...........
> 
> The square reservoirs they make specifically FOR the trays are about 18" off the ground give or take. Only complaint is they are expensive, around $150 just for the tray and then more for the lids still!


Exactly my two reasons I won't use trays, one they are too expensive...two they are bigger than I have space for.

Thanks


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## afrothund3r (Dec 31, 2010)

Whats the word on the stg inserts fro the CAP E and G. I am setting up my first grow and have seen mixed reviews on the inserts.


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## researchkitty (Dec 31, 2010)

afrothund3r said:


> Whats the word on the stg inserts fro the CAP E and G. I am setting up my first grow and have seen mixed reviews on the inserts.


The biggest problem is they retain a little too much water so they feel too wet all the time, and when they are wet or watering or have a plant taller than 36" in them they sag and lop in. If they had some reinforcements in them it might help.

The other problem is the cost. Check how much each one is


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## Ferredoxin (Jan 5, 2011)

Great thread! I have decided to change my entire op over from soil to Ebb and Gro thanks to this wealth of info. Thanks to everyone for contributing! I still have a few questions that I havent really seen a solid answer to:

1) Could I take bareroot cuttings from an aero cloner and transplant them directly into this system with hydroton? Would they need to be flooded more than 2 times per day in the beginning like it seems people are doing with rockwool cuts? Should I transplant them into another medium before placing in the hydroton buckets?

2) Is there a concensus on plant support? DO tomato cages work with this system? Are people even finding it necessary to support the plants? All of the branches seem to be pretty damn stout in the pics I have seen.

3) Am I correct to assume that it is bad to irrigate during dark hours?

Thanks!


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## BiteSizeFreak (Jan 5, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Great thread! I have decided to change my entire op over from soil to Ebb and Gro thanks to this wealth of info. Thanks to everyone for contributing! I still have a few questions that I havent really seen a solid answer to:
> 
> 1) Could I take bareroot cuttings from an aero cloner and transplant them directly into this system with hydroton? Would they need to be flooded more than 2 times per day in the beginning like it seems people are doing with rockwool cuts? Should I transplant them into another medium before placing in the hydroton buckets?
> 
> ...


 
Let me see if I can get all 3 right.

1a) Yes
1b) Not sure but I would do 3.
1c) Not required

2) Up to you, I don't see the need.

3) Not bad per se, just not needed.

If I'm wrong then I'm sorry, someone more knowledgable should be along shortly.


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## researchkitty (Jan 5, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> 1) Could I take bareroot cuttings from an aero cloner and transplant them directly into this system with hydroton? Would they need to be flooded more than 2 times per day in the beginning like it seems people are doing with rockwool cuts? Should I transplant them into another medium before placing in the hydroton buckets?


Bite got the other ones already, so here's the answer to #1.....

1.) You may take bare rooted cuttings from an aerocloner and transplant directly. Without any rockwool or rapidrooter cube to stay "moist" between floods, you water them 2x a day (hour after lights come on, then 6 hours later). For the first week, hand water them additionally from the stem of the plant and around it in a circle to ensure you got the roots properly. A party cup sized amount of water per plant would be plenty.

Additionally, I *strongly* encourage use of a Foliar spray. For Humboldt Nutrients its a little of the Verde, Sticky, Ginormous and a few others I cant remember. Foliar spray them just before lights go out and they will be even better, happier, greener, etc.... Any foliar spray would work, I just have experience with mixing my own based on Humboldt Nutrients foliar spray schedule.

Good luck!


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## Ferredoxin (Jan 6, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> Bite got the other ones already, so here's the answer to #1.....
> 
> 1.) You may take bare rooted cuttings from an aerocloner and transplant directly. Without any rockwool or rapidrooter cube to stay "moist" between floods, you water them 2x a day (hour after lights come on, then 6 hours later). For the first week, hand water them additionally from the stem of the plant and around it in a circle to ensure you got the roots properly. A party cup sized amount of water per plant would be plenty.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kitty & BSF for the quick replies. I have some Grape Stompers that are ready in the aero cloner, but they were pegged for soil until I saw this thread! Just making sure I dont need to do anything special. I use Cutting Edge Solutions nutrients, and you can spray a low rate of 'Grow' as a foliar. I will give that a try. Kitty - what does your spray schedule look like?


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## horsepower850 (Jan 7, 2011)

Well, finally after hearing from everyone else that using coco in this system is a mistake. I am comparing the difference between hydroton and coco as a medium. The plants in Hydroton are way more healthy and faster growing than the ones in coco. The coco also has problems with gnats and it's messy. and it holds moisture for too long. Even though I mixed the coco with hydroton. Lessons learned..


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## hammer21 (Jan 7, 2011)

I`m building my own controller for ebb system after running a cap it is very plain no adjustments and cheap etc. My controller use`s a top off tank when my 55 gallon barrel gets low it pumps solution from the top off tank to the 55 gallon barrel . When the top off tank gets low the controller has output that i connect to a phone dailer to call me to let me know. Also it will call me if water level is to high or has leaks also more leds to let you know what is happening. Also i can adjust the floats to any height i want or need.


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## researchkitty (Jan 7, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Thanks Kitty & BSF for the quick replies. I have some Grape Stompers that are ready in the aero cloner, but they were pegged for soil until I saw this thread! Just making sure I dont need to do anything special. I use Cutting Edge Solutions nutrients, and you can spray a low rate of 'Grow' as a foliar. I will give that a try. Kitty - what does your spray schedule look like?


http://www.humboldtnutrients.com/feeding-charts/foliar-charts/ is my foliar chart...... I just stick with week 1 veg spray, dont really ever change past that. Once the plants start to sex, discontinue foliar.



horsepower850 said:


> Well, finally after hearing from everyone else that using coco in this system is a mistake. I am comparing the difference between hydroton and coco as a medium. The plants in Hydroton are way more healthy and faster growing than the ones in coco. The coco also has problems with gnats and it's messy. and it holds moisture for too long. Even though I mixed the coco with hydroton. Lessons learned..


Glad you learned the way


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 9, 2011)

anybody know if you can use the sentenal control box to replace the cap one


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## researchkitty (Jan 9, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> anybody know if you can use the sentenal control box to replace the cap one


As long as the hose outputs on the bottom are made to fit 1/2" inner diameter hosing, then yes. The only thing of caution is that if the floats in the alternative control box are taller or shorter than your buckets because nobody uses the same height buckets, it may fill too much or fill too little. Both can be adjusted using those plant risers for a few dollars each but that can get expensive. 

If the hose outputs arent 1/2", just seal em up and drill new ones.


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## cooley150 (Jan 11, 2011)

I have a couple questions.... I'm about 3 weeks into flower and want to do a rez change. I don't have RO water and 40 gallons of distilled is a little too expensive. My tap water is about 250 ppm. My question is if I do the rez change right after the last feeding before the lights go out, how long can I go with out a feeding so I can let the chlorine evaporate out of the rez. They say your supposed to let the water sit for 24 hours. can I get away with 24 hours safely? Should I keep the light off that whole time? I have 1- 1000watt light over 12 plants with a light mover.

Second question is.... If I start out with a ppm of 250 straight out of the tap no nutes, and My max target ppm is say 1300... Does that mean my max target ppm should actually be 1550 after adding my nutes? Tap water ppm(250) + nutes(1300) = 1550?


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## researchkitty (Jan 12, 2011)

cooley150 said:


> I have a couple questions.... I'm about 3 weeks into flower and want to do a rez change. I don't have RO water and 40 gallons of distilled is a little too expensive. My tap water is about 250 ppm. My question is if I do the rez change right after the last feeding before the lights go out, how long can I go with out a feeding so I can let the chlorine evaporate out of the rez. They say your supposed to let the water sit for 24 hours. can I get away with 24 hours safely? Should I keep the light off that whole time? I have 1- 1000watt light over 12 plants with a light mover.
> 
> Second question is.... If I start out with a ppm of 250 straight out of the tap no nutes, and My max target ppm is say 1300... Does that mean my max target ppm should actually be 1550 after adding my nutes? Tap water ppm(250) + nutes(1300) = 1550?


Dont use distilled water.

Your PPM of 250 is a LITTLE high, it isnt terrible. Some people grow with 600-800ppm out of a tap. It just isnt the best, is all.

Your target ppm should be the total final #. When your ppm meter says 1550, your done adding anything. If it gets too high just ad PPM DOWN (aka H2O aka Water! ).

As for the validity to letting the water settle 24 hours, it just gets rid of the chlorene and allows it to naturally evaporate. I've done both, pulled from a rez that has just water in it and straight from the tap and I cant ever tell a difference of which one sat and which one didnt. I dont really think it actually matters much.............


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## cooley150 (Jan 12, 2011)

Thank you once again Kitty!!!!


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## dtp5150 (Jan 13, 2011)

Hammer21,

I am thoroughly impressed by what you have created.

I made the ebb&flow kit from aquahub. It wasn't too hard following their directions and using a label machine.

I want to know more how to build these types of devices using mechanical relays, transformers, etc. Any suggestions? Please private message me on the site! I know I should just practice probably huh? 



hammer21 said:


> I`m building my own controller for ebb system after running a cap it is very plain no adjustments and cheap etc. My controller use`s a top off tank when my 55 gallon barrel gets low it pumps solution from the top off tank to the 55 gallon barrel . When the top off tank gets low the controller has output that i connect to a phone dailer to call me to let me know. Also it will call me if water level is to high or has leaks also more leds to let you know what is happening. Also i can adjust the floats to any height i want or need.
> View attachment 1368896View attachment 1368894View attachment 1368895


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## cooley150 (Jan 16, 2011)

OK, I posted a question about doing a rez change and letting the water sit for 24 hours to let the chlorine evaporate before feeding again. Kitty you answered and said that you didn't think it would make a difference. Well, my lights come on at 10am and I had a feeding cycle set for 10:30am. After that feeding I decided to do my rez change and just let it sit for 24 hours with no additional feedings. This is my question....Is it possible that by NOT feeding my plants in that 24 hour period that they actually grew? I mean I swear that I can see a noticeable difference. This really intrigues me. I have my controller set to 4 feedings a day. Is this too much? Would I get better results cutting back on the feedings? I was worried that if i didn't feed them for 24 hours that they might droop or dry out, and it seems like the opposite happen and they actually did better.


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## researchkitty (Jan 16, 2011)

cooley150 said:


> OK, I posted a question about doing a rez change and letting the water sit for 24 hours to let the chlorine evaporate before feeding again. Kitty you answered and said that you didn't think it would make a difference. Well, my lights come on at 10am and I had a feeding cycle set for 10:30am. After that feeding I decided to do my rez change and just let it sit for 24 hours with no additional feedings. This is my question....Is it possible that by NOT feeding my plants in that 24 hour period that they actually grew? I mean I swear that I can see a noticeable difference. This really intrigues me. I have my controller set to 4 feedings a day. Is this too much? Would I get better results cutting back on the feedings? I was worried that if i didn't feed them for 24 hours that they might droop or dry out, and it seems like the opposite happen and they actually did better.


Without a photograph of the plant to gauge its health, its tough to say cut back or increase on watering. My plants in veg are droopy because of a "try 2x a day" instead of "just once a day" watering. They'll be fine in a few days, but thats how you gauge what your plants need.

Of course, plants that grow in early life grow less inches per day than a plant thats already older. If you veg them for a few weeks you'll start to see them grow an inch a day!

Now you said you didnt want them to get dry and droopy -- they wont. They'd get dry and *crispy* and curl upward a little bit. If they claw, or curl down and are still green moist plants that are starting to look weak, that's when its overwatering.


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## Ferredoxin (Jan 16, 2011)

Happy to report that my Ebb & Gro is up and running as of yesterday. I had no issues setting it up, except my hands and fingers got a great workout from squeezing the tubing over all the fittings. I had a bowl full of hot, soapy water that I dunked each hose end into before fitting, and it helped A LOT.

I have 16 sites under 4 x 1k HPS.... running some Grape Stomper at the moment. I took rooted cuttings straight from an aero cloner (bareroot) and buried them in the hydroton. They all had at least a foot of roots (left them in there a bit long...lol), and 3-4 of the plants got pretty droopy between their first and second waterings in the buckets. Today, none of the plants are drooping, and it looks like there is some new, healthy growth on all of the plants.

Nutes started at 280 ppm (180 ppm from the tap), and just consists of the Technaflora Root 66 and Sugar Daddy that came with the unit at the moment. PPM is now sitting at 330. Looks like the plants are taking up more water than nutrients.....Im assuming this is primarily because the Root 66 and Sugar Daddy only contain trace amounts of plant food, and have more additives (carbs, kelp) that arent taken up by the plant? What should be considered a "large" jump in PPM that should be addressed? Is flushing and re-mixing necessary, or just a res dump/scrub/refill?

pH started at 5.5, but crept up to 6.2 overnight. Adjusted back down to 5.5, and keeping an eye on it.

So far....Im loving it.


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## BiteSizeFreak (Jan 18, 2011)

horsepower850 said:


> I usually use 2 ml per gallon of the 30% H2O2. It works great.


Where can a person find 30%? I only ever see it at the store at 3%.


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## researchkitty (Jan 18, 2011)

BiteSizeFreak said:


> Where can a person find 30%? I only ever see it at the store at 3%.


any hydro shop


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## BiteSizeFreak (Jan 19, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> any hydro shop


Haha, should have seen that coming. I never go to my local shop unless I HAVE to. Overpriced and understocked. Guess I'll be making a trip, thanks Kitty!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 19, 2011)

im using 29% at 7ml a gal every 3 day and I cant keep this whitish brown foam
from my rez, ive flushed twice and cleaned the systen out each time
View attachment 1390586ive got filter bags on my pumps but its still geting into my control box, rez temp is 69 to 70 and its making it hell to stablize my ph anybody else having this problem? the only thing i put in there is GH floral 3 part and h202, first time i flush with floral
shield then refilled with h202 and GH mix


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## thom znamer (Jan 19, 2011)

this is my first time with the ebb and grow system. i have the expansion set. i'm using the general hydroponics expert recirculating program. floragro (12.5ml) floramicro (7.5ml) florabloom (2.5ml) diamond nector (10ml) floralicious grow (2.5ml) this is all mixed up for 45 gallons i also added after all was mixed humboldt verde (40ml) and gh ca mg+ (40ml) okay for monitoring reasons i'm using nutradip trimeter. my temp is staying at 67 in the rez ph is at 6.1 and ppm is 1400ish. in the buckets i'm using the suretogrow inserts that fit. i'm using inline fan and a large goblin filter for smell. my room temp and humidity are where they should be. i moniter this using a active air hygro thermometer. as for lighting i'm using 4 xtrasun reflectors with 600hps bulbs and phantom digi ballasts. my plants are doing really bad two have died and ive done everything the way i should have. any pointers?


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 19, 2011)

thom znamer said:


> this is my first time with the ebb and grow system. i have the expansion set. i'm using the general hydroponics expert recirculating program. floragro (12.5ml) floramicro (7.5ml) florabloom (2.5ml) diamond nector (10ml) floralicious grow (2.5ml) this is all mixed up for 45 gallons i also added after all was mixed humboldt verde (40ml) and gh ca mg+ (40ml) okay for monitoring reasons i'm using nutradip trimeter. my temp is staying at 67 in the rez ph is at 6.1 and ppm is 1400ish. in the buckets i'm using the suretogrow inserts that fit. i'm using inline fan and a large goblin filter for smell. my room temp and humidity are where they should be. i moniter this using a active air hygro thermometer. as for lighting i'm using 4 xtrasun reflectors with 600hps bulbs and phantom digi ballasts. my plants are doing really bad two have died and ive done everything the way i should have. any pointers?


sound like your on point but your ph should be 5.5 to 5.8 and pics would be helpful and 1400ppm how old are they cuz if there babys or baby boomer size plant 
you shouldd drop to 800ish I had the same problem that led to a nute lock out and I had to flush and start over


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## thom znamer (Jan 19, 2011)

i'm gonna go home and flush and try a little lower nute mix. i'll try and figure out a way to get pics..


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## researchkitty (Jan 19, 2011)

thom znamer said:


> i'll try and figure out a way to get pics..


Often times, people use cameras for that.


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## mrduke (Jan 19, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> Often times, people use cameras for that.


 That's awsome!!! I love it


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## thom znamer (Jan 20, 2011)

thing is i only have a cell with a shitty camera and that is no good lol


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## doniawon (Jan 20, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> im using 29% at 7ml a gal every 3 day and I cant keep this whitish brown foam
> from my rez, ive flushed twice and cleaned the systen out each time
> View attachment 1390586ive got filter bags on my pumps but its still geting into my control box, rez temp is 69 to 70 and its making it hell to stablize my ph anybody else having this problem? the only thing i put in there is GH floral 3 part and h202, first time i flush with floral
> shield then refilled with h202 and GH mix


are you using synthetic nutrients? sugars and organics will cause that, so will residual neem like azamax. ..


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## doniawon (Jan 20, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> any hydro shop


pool supply stores and beauty supply.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2011)

doniawon said:


> are you using synthetic nutrients? sugars and organics will cause that, so will residual neem like azamax. ..


just GH and superthrive but im not going to use that anymore, seems with the h202 im able to control it but its still there even after changing the rez water
and cleaning it and the controll box, plant are only showing signs of the edges curling in, not sure what causes this


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 24, 2011)

got a question about feeding, so what ive read you dont flood during lights out? and flood every 3 to 4 when lights on? 
just want to confirm what ive read thanks guys/girls


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## shnkrmn (Jan 24, 2011)

Don't flood when lights are out. 2 times a day is plenty, maybe 3 in early flowering.


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## researchkitty (Jan 24, 2011)

Watering plants when it is dark time just gets them wet. They dont drink anything or produce anything at night. All you do is increase the possibility of overwatering by watering at night time. So, hour after lights turn on start first water, then space out however many times you want to water across the rest of the day.


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## BiteSizeFreak (Jan 29, 2011)

Just entered week 2 of flowering on my first grow with this system. When flushing before harvest using RO water do you still add Cal/Mag or just pure water? Also how long do YOU flush with how many res changes? I've heard a week, two weeks, 10 days, etc...


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## researchkitty (Jan 29, 2011)

BiteSizeFreak said:


> Just entered week 2 of flowering on my first grow with this system. When flushing before harvest using RO water do you still add Cal/Mag or just pure water? Also how long do YOU flush with how many res changes? I've heard a week, two weeks, 10 days, etc...


You *can* empty the rez and fill with R/O water if you want. There's just no real reason to. After your last week of nutrient feed is done, just add water, no nutrients. No calmag needed. The ppm will lower over the last week till its around 300-400 or so and its the perfect flush. You dont flush for a particular time, just till they are done once they've packed on their weight (Week 6-7).

Kitty


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 29, 2011)

View attachment 1411465View attachment 1411464View attachment 1411463View attachment 1411462View attachment 1411461some upgrades to the system, reason for it, is to 
get that flimsy 1/2 in. tubing out of there. And to make it a quick disconect to the rez for cleaning. also changing out the tubing for the
pots to hard line. will post pics on that to, also changed the pumps to green leaves 160 for some faster flow. last thing I did was to raise
the pot up by 2in with drain plates to lower flood line from the command box.


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## Ferredoxin (Jan 30, 2011)

Are those in-line filters or pressure regulators just above the control box? I thought about rigging a quick disconnect also...that would be nice. Well done.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 31, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Are those in-line filters or pressure regulators just above the control box? I thought about rigging a quick disconnect also...that would be nice. Well done.


in line filters. cleaning this system a bit of a bitch so is why I went to quick disconects. Ive been fighting a brown sludge that I got somehow in my res tank so I 
put filter bags on the pumps and inline filters traps to catch the loose stuff.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 31, 2011)

filter bags and inline filters, seems to me it would just provide more media for microbes to grow on. The microbes themselves can pass right through those filters.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 31, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> filter bags and inline filters, seems to me it would just provide more media for microbes to grow on. The microbes themselves can pass right through those filters.


the h202 takes care of the microbes Im guessing, and the inline filters and filter bags are for catching the larger chunks that I might of missed during
cleaning and what might come back from the pots and line down stream from the cammand box, also help with sediment from the clay pellets. 
overkill maybe but better to be safe. I clean those filters daily and they catch alot of stuff


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## shnkrmn (Jan 31, 2011)

I've looked at your setup. You've done some nice upgrades to your system but I see one thing that you could do better on; your air pump is small for a 55 gallon res. Not just the capacity but the depth; I'm pretty sure the water pressure down at the bottom of that res is enough to cause your air pump to struggle. I keep 4 airstones in my large res attached to a 30watt pump; looks like a jacuzzi. Upgrade from the aquarium pump and I think you'll resolve your goo problem. I use bleach at .5-1ml per gallon if I see any problems. I'm an H2O2 skeptic, plus I have over 100 gallons of res capacity. Dosing regularly with H2O2 is pretty expensive at that volume. Fortunately, I don't get rot. And, no, bleach does not stunt my plants or poison my crop. It is used in commercial hydroponics constantly.


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## researchkitty (Jan 31, 2011)

H2O2 isnt needed if you have the proper amount of air pumps in your reservoir (1 watt per gallon). It doesnt do anything with respect to microbes or keeping things clean, it's just liquid air.

It's more useful, in my opinion, for the water that gets left behind in the buckets while draining, which gives the roots that extra o2 that are still touching some of the water. Some people raise buckets, but that's a great way to get the tips of roots to dry out rather than making a plant better..............


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## Tamorin (Jan 31, 2011)

Dont anyone buy that monster brain please. The pumps they give with it are too big to get the bottom of the brains water out and since thats the case it just keeps running that pump none stop. The float is too low and the 580 g.p.h. pump is way too high. Im just using the smaller brain and drilling into my own 5 gallon buckets. Using my own .5 inch grommets and hosing with the smaller works fine already did it.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 31, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> I've looked at your setup. You've done some nice upgrades to your system but I see one thing that you could do better on; your air pump is small for a 55 gallon res. Not just the capacity but the depth; I'm pretty sure the water pressure down at the bottom of that res is enough to cause your air pump to struggle. I keep 4 airstones in my large res attached to a 30watt pump; looks like a jacuzzi. Upgrade from the aquarium pump and I think you'll resolve your goo problem. I use bleach at .5-1ml per gallon if I see any problems. I'm an H2O2 skeptic, plus I have over 100 gallons of res capacity. Dosing regularly with H2O2 is pretty expensive at that volume. Fortunately, I don't get rot. And, no, bleach does not stunt my plants or poison my crop. It is used in commercial hydroponics constantly.


bleach at .5-1ML per gal il give that a shot, and I will upgrade the air pump tonite to a monster one with x4 air stones, bleach would be a way cheaper way to deal
with the slime. +rep shnkrmn


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 31, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> H2O2 isnt needed if you have the proper amount of air pumps in your reservoir (1 watt per gallon). It doesnt do anything with respect to microbes or keeping things clean, it's just liquid air.
> 
> It's more useful, in my opinion, for the water that gets left behind in the buckets while draining, which gives the roots that extra o2 that are still touching some of the water. Some people raise buckets, but that's a great way to get the tips of roots to dry out rather than making a plant better..............


yah my thought was to raise the 02 to a point where microbes couldnt live but it seems Ive been just puting a bandaid on it.


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## researchkitty (Jan 31, 2011)

Please dont add bleach to your reservoir. Bleach is bad for plants and for the nutrients in your reservoir. Use something like simple green or a citrus based cleaner, eh? In 1200 posts in this thread, not one talks about adding bleach to a reservoir. 

Please show me where it is "used in commercial hydroponics constantly". If I'm wrong, hats off to ya for showing me something new.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm not into arguing with you kitty. You jump on it all you want. I use bleach (rarely). I grow pot (quite successfully). You don't have to be such a know-it-all. When my plants die, or wilt, or turn black and smell like fresh laundry you can say I told you so. You'll be waiting a long time.


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## researchkitty (Jan 31, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> I'm not into arguing with you kitty. You jump on it all you want. I use bleach (rarely). I grow pot (quite successfully). You don't have to be such a know-it-all. When my plants die, or wilt, or turn black and smell like fresh laundry you can say I told you so. You'll be waiting a long time.


I dont disagree to start drama............. I disagree when I think its wrong and/or bad. PLEASE though, rather than just spiting back that you grow successfully, spit back with a link to where its used commercially all the time as you stated......... I've never seen a hydro shop sell bleach and they sell everything possible! I'd *love* to be proven wrong, because then I learned something. Happens ALL the time!


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## shnkrmn (Jan 31, 2011)

Down the road from me. Not all evidence is on the web and I'm not in the business of proving you wrong with a link. What's the basis of your disapprobation? Heard it was bad? Read it somewhere? Tried it? Put the research hat on, kitty.

If I 'spit back', it's because I stated in my original post that I use it, my plants tolerate it well, and I DON'T get pathogens. Solid personal experience. All respect to you, Kitty. You are a fine grower, passionate about what you believe in and a wee bit too certain of yourself. But there's more than one way to skin a cat (with apologies).

I'm not in hydro shops much, I'm surprised they don't have it at 40/gallon with a fancy name and no ingredient label.


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## researchkitty (Jan 31, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> Down the road from me. Not all evidence is on the web and I'm not in the business of proving you wrong with a link. What's the basis of your disapprobation? Heard it was bad? Read it somewhere? Tried it? Put the research hat on, kitty.
> 
> If I 'spit back', it's because I stated in my original post that I use it, my plants tolerate it well, and I DON'T get pathogens. Solid personal experience. All respect to you, Kitty. You are a fine grower, passionate about what you believe in and a wee bit too certain of yourself. But there's more than one way to skin a cat (with apologies).
> 
> I'm not in hydro shops much, I'm surprised they don't have it at 40/gallon with a fancy name and no ingredient label.


So basically, this method of using bleach is something that's so secretive that it isnt even on the Internet or Hydro stores?

Ok.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 1, 2011)

I searched for a hour for info on it with no luck, But today I bumped into a freind and he said he has used it at a very small amount to cure
problems in the res. I asked him to show me somekind of website or reading material to prove/convice me its safe to use it, he replys a 
old buddy of his told him. so all the info on it is third party with claims that its safe in very small amounts. I will keep searching for info
on the net/books/magazine to back up the claims and I will post the info as soon as I get it


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## shnkrmn (Feb 1, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> So basically, this method of using bleach is something that's so secretive that it isnt even on the Internet or Hydro stores?
> 
> Ok.


Your little sarcastic winky just proves what I said about you; check your ego. girl. I tried to be nice but you just like being a little e-warrior too much. I might point out to you that I have not advised anyone to do anything. I have only said what I do. Apparently, in this thread which you didn't start but seem to think you own, this is against Kittie's rules. Fine. I'm not going away. I was in this thread way before you, and I'll be here after you are gone.

Humble kitty, my ass.

It certainly won't be a secret for long if we have an e-fight about it.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 1, 2011)

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/286022-killing-root-rot-3.html

Since you like links.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 1, 2011)

Oh, and here's your over-priced hydro store product. 1/2 the chlorine of Clorox, but ten times the price.

Flairform Pythoff. Google it yourself.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 1, 2011)

Oh what the heck, I'll make that easy for you too.

http://www.flairform.com/Products/pythoff.htm


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## mrduke (Feb 1, 2011)

boy i love a good Kat fight !!!!


sorry i couldn't resist LOL


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## researchkitty (Feb 1, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> Oh what the heck, I'll make that easy for you too.
> 
> http://www.flairform.com/Products/pythoff.htm


No, you continue to simply insult me (for being right) and provide MORE bad information.

"Note, Pythoff is not compatible with hydrogen peroxide or beneficial bacteria. As with all products it is advisable to test compatibility prior to routine usage."

*cough*

BLEACH is sodium hypochlorite

PYTHOFF is monochloramine.

Anyhow, back to you telling me how I'm an idiot because I called you out (rightfully) on using bleach in hydroponics.

YOU DONT USE BLEACH IN HYDROPONICS WITH LIVE PLANTS.

Next time you feel the need to reply, please, research your information first and type something out politely. Or at least use google!

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1SNNT_enUS404&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=bleach+in+hydroponics

Notice nobody tells you to add it to the reservoirs. They only use bleach to CLEAN the buckets out when a cycle is over.

Do you have anything else rude or inaccurate to state here? I'll take an apology ANY time.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 1, 2011)

YOU want an apology from me? What if you don't get it? Your skin is too thin. Using upper case and exclamation points does not lend authority to what you type.

I did not call you an idiot at any time. Nor would I. As I said, I respect you. I'm just not hypnotized by your underpants like the boys who follow your grow (hats off on your 1st harvest though; props must be given)..

Once again, I stand by my methods. I don't care to argue. I grow marijuana, and this is how I do. Anyone who wants to know how to successfully use BLEACH in your reservoir to control pathogens is welcome to discuss it with me in my thread where I have plenty of


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## researchkitty (Feb 1, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> YOU want an apology from me? What if you don't get it? Your skin is too thin. Using upper case and exclamation points does not lend authority to what you type.
> 
> I did not call you an idiot at any time. Nor would I. As I said, I respect you. I'm just not hypnotized by your underpants like the boys who follow your grow (hats off on your 1st harvest though; props must be given)..
> 
> Once again, I stand by my methods. I don't care to argue. I grow marijuana, and this is how I do. Anyone who wants to know how to successfully use BLEACH in your reservoir to control pathogens is welcome to discuss it with me in my thread where I have plenty of


You wrote three lines of text that meant nothing and did nothing to help make your case. If I'm wrong (check my previous posts!) then I LOVE it because I learn something. There's a ton of wrong info on RIU. Its our jobs as posters and growers to discern what is fact and what is fiction.

You've made a dozen posts here now with nothing more than a link to a product that isnt bleach and no data anywhere anyhow on using it other than for cleaning buckets out after they are dirty.

So please, dont divert people to "your thread", divert people to the correct information, not more blah blah blah.  I do respect everyone here, just post information that has value, and if it turns out its bad information, learn and move on. That's how I learned to grow, trial and error and forums.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 1, 2011)

Kittie, you never read the thread I linked to. I'm not here to argue. You could go to 'my thread' and learn about it there yourself. Or you could leave an uppercase obscene insult rep on my page. like you just did. You are really, really unhinged. Your idea of respect is warped. and you are way too young to be so rigid. I thought Canadians were fairly mellow people, but that's the danger of generalizations I guess.

Yes, we learned to grow in similar fashion. I just use BLEACH


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## researchkitty (Feb 1, 2011)

We're never melllow


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## shnkrmn (Feb 1, 2011)

lol.

Damn. It's hard to stay mad at the underpants. I should be old enough to resist.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 2, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> We're never melllow


hmm im half canadian and im not very mellow. but on the not so bright side I just sprung a leak earlyer and flooded my room
with 55 gal of nutes  good day to you all


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 3, 2011)

This is awesome.

BTW - Cl is actually listed as a micronutrient in plant health.... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC540579/

Not endorsing the use of Cl in hydro - i use 35% H2O2 like many other reputable growers - but I think the whole Cl and plant problems issue has probably been blown a bit out of proportion. If you use a 2% solution to clean your equip and follow with a good rinse, you are not going to see any problems.


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## nahikuroots (Feb 6, 2011)

IMHO I would prefer to sort through 125 pages of scientific theory from accredited professionals vs unverified opinions, an editing or compiling of FAQ's could be helpful if there was a Mod who was inspired. 
Of course the more data that is provided, the more trustworthy the source. Who amongst us would not prefer to know why something works vs being told it has always worked? Those type of claims could easily be due to correlation and not causality. More data is always desirable because science has no ego, it only deals with what can be proven through strenuous testing. Also thousands of products are sold every day claiming millions of unsubstantiated effects so that is not a logical basis for any calculation in this area. We are faced with enough variables as it is so we could all stand to have a little discipline when it comes to relaying information. Unfortunately and humorously a friend of mine once pointed out that this situation is similar to NASCAR, we all have our own theories and methods but most of us end up doing the same speed around the track. Thank You to everyone here for their input.


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 6, 2011)

I have about 3 weeks under my belt with the Ebb and Grow. It was a rough first 10-12 days in the system (tried to salvage some stressed out Grape Stomper clones that had been in the aero cloner for wayyyy too long with a major case of mites), but things are looking rosy now. After some tweaking of the pot heights, flood schedule, and nutes, the plants are taking off like crazy. No more mites either....a huge freaking victory. The clones just sat there for damn near 2 weeks. I was ready to buy some healthy clones when they finally snapped out of it. Im following the Lucas schedule with some Cutting Edge Grow thrown in for extra N/K, and all I have to say is WOW...I have never seen stems this fat on a 3 week old plant. I cant even LST them for fear of breaking the fat bastards. Gonna flip to 12/12 in a week or less.

Just feelin good on the victory....had to chime in again.

PS - I had fantastic success with Azamax. I first dipped the clones in it to knock down the bugs, then followed up with a foliar spray about 17 days later. I add a little insect soap as a spreader, and some CES Grow at label rate to add some vigor and help with adsorption of the Azamax into the plant. There is also a mixing schedule for adding Azamax to your hydroponic reservoir - anyone ever tried this with success?


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 7, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> I have about 3 weeks under my belt with the Ebb and Grow. It was a rough first 10-12 days in the system (tried to salvage some stressed out Grape Stomper clones that had been in the aero cloner for wayyyy too long with a major case of mites), but things are looking rosy now. After some tweaking of the pot heights, flood schedule, and nutes, the plants are taking off like crazy. No more mites either....a huge freaking victory. The clones just sat there for damn near 2 weeks. I was ready to buy some healthy clones when they finally snapped out of it. Im following the Lucas schedule with some Cutting Edge Grow thrown in for extra N/K, and all I have to say is WOW...I have never seen stems this fat on a 3 week old plant. I cant even LST them for fear of breaking the fat bastards. Gonna flip to 12/12 in a week or less.
> 
> Just feelin good on the victory....had to chime in again.
> 
> PS - I had fantastic success with Azamax. I first dipped the clones in it to knock down the bugs, then followed up with a foliar spray about 17 days later. I add a little insect soap as a spreader, and some CES Grow at label rate to add some vigor and help with adsorption of the Azamax into the plant. There is also a mixing schedule for adding Azamax to your hydroponic reservoir - anyone ever tried this with success?


azamax in the res works great for mites and other critters living in the medium. 17 day follow up is good but i add it as far as 30 days just
to be sure.


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## horsepower850 (Feb 7, 2011)

Does anyone have an answer to keeping the roots from creeping into the drain tubes and stopping up the lines?


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## BiteSizeFreak (Feb 7, 2011)

horsepower850 said:


> Does anyone have an answer to keeping the roots from creeping into the drain tubes and stopping up the lines?


When I lift the inside pot I have a perfect root mold of the space left... So yeah...same boat...


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## researchkitty (Feb 7, 2011)

horsepower850 said:


> Does anyone have an answer to keeping the roots from creeping into the drain tubes and stopping up the lines?


Trim em with scissors. Cutting them under the pot holes will encourage them to bush inside the pots, instead of keeping extending out. Trimming them wont hurt your plant at all. If you have to trim more than once during flower, you need less veg or bigger pots.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 8, 2011)

how the hell are you guys getting that much root mass? ive got like 5 or 6 main roots coming out of my holes, plants are about three feet tall and almost
3 weeks in flower.


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## horsepower850 (Feb 8, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> how the hell are you guys getting that much root mass? ive got like 5 or 6 main roots coming out of my holes, plants are about three feet tall and almost
> 3 weeks in flower.


It's all in the medium. I'm using hydroton pellets and the roots are a massive ball coming from the net bucket. They are reaching down into the tubes. The ones I have rotted in coco fiber aren't reaching through as much. I'll try to cut them back but it's gettin thick in there. Hard to move around with plants filling the space.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 8, 2011)

horsepower850 said:


> It's all in the medium. I'm using hydroton pellets and the roots are a massive ball coming from the net bucket. They are reaching down into the tubes. The ones I have rotted in coco fiber aren't reaching through as much. I'll try to cut them back but it's gettin thick in there. Hard to move around with plants filling the space.


Im using hydrotron to, you using any kind of root stim?


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## horsepower850 (Feb 8, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Im using hydrotron to, you using any kind of root stim?


No, no root stimulator. Just use H&G Cocos A&B and the rest of that line minus the root excuralator.


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## researchkitty (Feb 8, 2011)

Some strains are also more "rooty" than others, Bubblelicious never roots through the pots but OG Kush always needs trimming.... *shrug*


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## powerplant74 (Feb 8, 2011)

All this gad damn yappin and cat fightin WTF are the pics at?????????????


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## nahikuroots (Feb 8, 2011)

Here are some pics, the strain is Larry's OG. The first set is from Jan 18th, the second is from a day ago. By my calculations they have about 2 1/2 weeks to go. I agree with Kitty about the length of your veg probably having the most to do with an over abundance of roots. This is my first run with this system. Veg and Clones are in a separate area. Rooted Clones in 16 oz cups (filled with sunshine #4) were direct transplanted from 18/6 under T5's to 12/12 under 1000 watt's. I am using House & Garden Aqua Flakes with all the supplements because I have been to Amsterdam and the Dutch have an excellent history when it comes to flower propagation so I am giving them a try. Following their schedule has had decent results although I would like to try Canna's line as well because I have heard good things about it.


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## powerplant74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Nahiku looking good! Couple question how long did you veg your larry, also did you find her to be a light feeder?


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## nahikuroots (Feb 9, 2011)

Clone and Veg room is separate so usually1-2 weeks to root a cut then 2-3 weeks Veg. If timed right this allows me to harvest, clean, transplant and begin flowering again within a few days. OG's tend to be lanky so I like to grow somewhere between the SOG method and the "3 months training a bush" style. Fimming seems to work well to control them from shooting to tall while encouraging nice side branching. As a general rule I don't like plants over 3 ft indoors because you don't get good light penetration. The strain itself dictates how densely I can push them together before again affecting light penetration. As far as feeding goes I have stuck to the H&G charts. So far the PPM has gradually risen and in the 7th & 8th weeks it is around 1200 PPM. PH, PPM and plant vigor must be watched with vigilance because sometimes they are thirsty, sometimes hungry and sometimes both. I make a note of what the PPM is each week and try to maintain that range. I haven't seen any over feed burn yet. H&G does have a "aggressive" schedule as well but I want to be very careful about overfeeding in a interconnected system.


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## powerplant74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Thanks for the input


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## nahikuroots (Feb 9, 2011)

I forgot to mention they were 6 to 10 inches tall when I transplanted them


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 10, 2011)

nahikuroots said:


> View attachment 1431553View attachment 1431554View attachment 1431556View attachment 1431558View attachment 1431559View attachment 1431560View attachment 1431561View attachment 1431563View attachment 1431565
> Here are some pics, the strain is Larry's OG. The first set is from Jan 18th, the second is from a day ago. By my calculations they have about 2 1/2 weeks to go. I agree with Kitty about the length of your veg probably having the most to do with an over abundance of roots. This is my first run with this system. Veg and Clones are in a separate area. Rooted Clones in 16 oz cups (filled with sunshine #4) were direct transplanted from 18/6 under T5's to 12/12 under 1000 watt's. I am using House & Garden Aqua Flakes with all the supplements because I have been to Amsterdam and the Dutch have an excellent history when it comes to flower propagation so I am giving them a try. Following their schedule has had decent results although I would like to try Canna's line as well because I have heard good things about it.


looking good man, very nice +rep


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## mrduke (Feb 10, 2011)

anybody have any leads on a place to get expansion kits for cheap. or just black buckets the same size?I need to add about 15


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## nahikuroots (Feb 11, 2011)

http://www.ezhydroshop.com/products/C.A.P.-6-Grow-Pot-Ebb-&-Gro-System-Add%2dOn.html


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## mrduke (Feb 11, 2011)

Also wondering what you'd recommend i have a 7x11 room with 3-1000 's how many plants??? I was thinking between 6-9 per light


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## researchkitty (Feb 11, 2011)

mrduke said:


> anybody have any leads on a place to get expansion kits for cheap. or just black buckets the same size?I need to add about 15


http://cgi.ebay.com/Ebb-Gro-6-Module-Expansion-kit-Discount-price-/160461296128?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255c3d1200#ht_500wt_1156

$45 for 6 site expansion with 25' of tubing, all grommets and t connectors and cheap shipping. He ships from pennsylvania and these are the same exact ones I use.

Right now I'm trying 16 plants under some lights, 12 under others in flower room A (no pics yet till tonight). All same genetics. I want to see the yield difference. For your room, 7x11 is a small space for 3000w. Each 1000w works a 4' space square, I let them work a 5' space square in my room because the plants sitll grow great with overlapping light.


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## nahikuroots (Feb 11, 2011)

I would stick with the black buckets, the reflectiveness of the white ones can promote green mold (Have you experienced this Kitty?). When calculating how to fill a room square feet is a great place to start. The other main factors would be the size of your hoods, the genetic traits of the strain and the future ease/difficulty of maintenance. I agree with Kitty about the 4'x4' footprint as a general guideline that can be pushed to meet personal needs. 7'x11' is a bit of an awkward size, you may benefit from some type of light mover or maybe 4 or 5 600w's (the Wattage would be less/same). Knowing the grow traits of your strain is immensely helpful. This helps you to create and even canopy that still allows light penetration which creates more uniformity in flower production/size. The sections of tubing between my T's are 12-13" long but I am growing OG and I don't let the plants get taller than 3'


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## researchkitty (Feb 11, 2011)

I get zero algae or mold from white buckets. I've used white buckets for the last 2 years in veg and for the last few months flowering now with these.

If it's a single white bucket, expect some algae. But two white buckets arent getting any light past two layers of that to really do anything as you'd actually use them.

Clear tubing, or any tubing that lets in light gets a lot of nice thick green algae buildup, stay away from that at all costs.


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## smoke10joints (Feb 11, 2011)

how possible do yaw think it is to grow with probablly 1 hps 150 watt in a closet basically 3X1, without having a actual exhaust. probably about 6 plants using ebb and flow system. ill try to get fresh air in by basic techniques lol


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## omertaitalia (Feb 11, 2011)

mrduke said:


> anybody have any leads on a place to get expansion kits for cheap. or just black buckets the same size?I need to add about 15


i got a brand new box of the white kit ill sell for 40 plus shipping, let me know only have one kit so 6 buckets


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## nahikuroots (Feb 11, 2011)

Nice Catch Kitty, Algae is definitely the correct term. I had some white buckets that came from a friend after he used them and they had a fair amount of algae on them , the black ones didn't so I used them. Of course that could have been caused by a number of other factors. I would grow in a tent before I used a closet that small.


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## horsepower850 (Feb 13, 2011)

Can anyone give me any advice on how to get rid of these long white larvae that are growing in my resivoir and showing up in my buckets?These gnats are reproducing rapidly. I have Azatrol but I"m in week 6 flowering and don't know if it will affect the plants.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 13, 2011)

you can use it in week 6 just make sure you do a good flush in the end even if you have to add a week or less to the timeline


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## med4u (Feb 13, 2011)

take your plants out put em buckets with clean h2o,load your system up with diluted muratic acid,cycle it non stop for a while,dump it,flush it with clean h20 and baking soda,dump,flush,check ph ,and resume grow,jus' a thought,save ya from runnin' chems in there anyway,good luck


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## i81two (Feb 13, 2011)

Azamax is organic and can be used late in flower. Like hellraiser said "flush good" and youll be fine.

Then when you start your next crop put some nematodes in your rez and a couple sticky traps at the base of plants. If they come back repeat the Azamax and nematodes on next crop. Just dont Azamax your todes unless they are being held hostage 

You will kill them eventually and they arent the end of the world to have a few flyin around in the mean time.


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## researchkitty (Feb 13, 2011)

smoke10joints said:


> how possible do yaw think it is to grow with probablly 1 hps 150 watt in a closet basically 3X1, without having a actual exhaust. probably about 6 plants using ebb and flow system. ill try to get fresh air in by basic techniques lol


Ebb & Flow for 6 plants? Just toss in some dirt and hand water those.  Realistically, 150 watt hps wont really generate much heat to worry about. A gentle breeze over the plants is a very, very smart thing to have though!


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## horsepower850 (Feb 13, 2011)

Can anyone give a good estimate of how many mL's per gal I can mix in a resevoir? I have some Azatrol, is that very different from Azamax?


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## i81two (Feb 14, 2011)

I use Azamax as a drench.

1 tbl per gallon. mix well and use a water can and be liberal. Repeat in a week.

I know dudes that Azamax every 2 weeks no matter if they got fungas gnats or not.


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## med4u (Feb 15, 2011)

wow! what a great thread! ive been readin' it and couldnt stop,im just settin' up my first EnG with a few mods,im gonna try 3gal bucks with 6" net pots,with sunleave rocks,im gonna put the fill/drain at 2" above bottom of buck,place small air stone in bottom,the bucks are 10" deep,pots are 5"deep,this will leave 3" of exposed root mass area,with the root tips in the bubbles,i think ill have to step up the fill cycle?,to keep the root mass wet and fed, the logic being,rocks to support and retain some moisture,larger area for oxygenating root mass,oxygenated nute solution in case of cycle fail and supply increased oxygen to root tips and mass,with the bottom solution being exchanged every cycle,any reasons why this would not work?also i wanna come off fox farm nutes when i go into EnG any advice,suggestions,tips would be great. thanx in advance


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## researchkitty (Feb 15, 2011)

med4u said:


> wow! what a great thread! ive been readin' it and couldnt stop,im just settin' up my first EnG with a few mods,im gonna try 3gal bucks with 6" net pots,with sunleave rocks,im gonna put the fill/drain at 2" above bottom of buck,place small air stone in bottom,the bucks are 10" deep,pots are 5"deep,this will leave 3" of exposed root mass area,with the root tips in the bubbles,i think ill have to step up the fill cycle,to keep the root mass wet and fed, the logic being,rocks to support and retain some moisture,larger area for oxygenating root mass,oxygenated nute solution in case of cycle fail and supply increased oxygen to root tips and mass,with the bottom solution being exchanged every cycle,any reasons why this would not work?also i wanna come off fox farm nutes when i go into EnG any advice,suggestions,tips would be great. thanx in advance


Would you like this growing setup to also be powered by a nuclear submarine too? 

Seriously, you're going waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard for most likely less of a yield and a LOT less reliable with so many parts to that system too. Ebb & Grow works because its simple and not complicated. No net pots are needed, we dont need goofy stone alternatives, nor air stones since we have h2o2, less fill cycles because we dont have so much in equipment, and watering is much more reliable than hoping stuff floats down in the right spot.

Newer growers *always* want to go bonkers with these crazy new ideas. Lets get the basics down first eh?


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## med4u (Feb 15, 2011)

duly noted.... thanx kitty


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## i81two (Feb 15, 2011)

Good point kitty.

Thats why i switched from hydroton to the 6x6 rockwool. It is just plane out less labor and cheaper too.

And i think fungas gnats like hydroton more also.

Good luck.


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## researchkitty (Feb 15, 2011)

i81two said:


> Good point kitty.
> 
> Thats why i switched from hydroton to the 6x6 rockwool. It is just plane out less labor and cheaper too.
> 
> ...


Gnats like any dirty room.  I've yet to ever have any insect mold or other problem, and all I do is keep things clean. Its the girl in me I guess.

6x6" rockwool cubes are what, $5-$8 each? Hydroton may be more, but you re-use it. I'm not aware of being able to reuse Rockwool cubes............. So if you do one grow, it might be cheaper, but soon as you do a second harvest it costed you more right?


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 15, 2011)

seems ive somehow got thrips  rooms real clean, guess il have to go get some azamax and kill these little bastards


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## i81two (Feb 15, 2011)

I pick up my 6x6's for $2.5 per. so its not that bad. If you run 75 x 2.5= 187 

Hydroton would take 8 bags @ 27 per= 216 and thats not counting what u need in veg. 

Hydroton is very labor intensive too. Time is money.

I wish it was all about cleanliness, cause i keep a clean ship also and the gnats just hang on for dear life


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## med4u (Feb 15, 2011)

hey u812,have you tried sunleave grow rocks? their about $15 for 33 lbs or 30 L but are way cleaner then hydroton cheaper,and retain more moisture,check em out


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 15, 2011)

I got a buddy running e experiment with D1 crushed granit thing seem good so far, he wont let me take pics but will post how things go.


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## med4u (Feb 15, 2011)

crushed granit? sounds right, D1? whats that?like an aggragete size? whats the ticket for some a dat? has he done any water retention test?








der ya go "inhaallllll, exhaalllll


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2011)

D1 is a crushed quarts/granite rock mostly use in construction, its packed on the roads then the paver comes and lays asfualt. its about small marble size
chuncks. hes flooding the same as I with hydrotron but I suspect as they get bigger he will have to flood longer or mor floods not sure yet. pros I can see
its super cheap, reusable and no ph issues, every sand and gravel pit has it not something leo would ever look at. cons is its heavy


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## researchkitty (Feb 16, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I got a buddy running e experiment with D1 crushed granit thing seem good so far, he wont let me take pics but will post how things go.


He wont let you take pictures?  Granite is a rock, it'll crumble in small chunks, instantly killing pumps when it does. Enjoy that! Any time someone does "something new and cool" that nobody heard of they never can seem to show final results or in-progress pictures.............. Hmm 



i81two said:


> I pick up my 6x6's for $2.5 per. so its not that bad. If you run 75 x 2.5= 187
> 
> Hydroton would take 8 bags @ 27 per= 216 and thats not counting what u need in veg.
> 
> ...


So yea, its cheaper the first harvest. Then if you decide to re-use your system and grow more than just one harvest worth, you have to re-buy the rockwool instead of just rinsing Hydroton. =) (Plus the rockwool is really more ebb & FLOW this is ebb & GROW) (Flow=Flood trays/rockwool gigantic cubes, Grow=Buckets with Hydroton(Generally, some idiots still use STG inserts).


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2011)

well kitty I would agree with you to but Ive always post picks if I could, so my posting that wasnt to steer anyboby to try it just was hoping
others might have done it to. as for it crubling that shit as solid as it come so its not going to get in the system. as for pics Il try to convice
him to let me snap a shot or to, but if not and it works out for him Il try one bucket with it a Il show all.


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## researchkitty (Feb 16, 2011)

I'd like to see how it is with water retention, no buildup of salts/nutrients, crumbly factor, but chances are him saving $8 is going to cost him.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2011)

as for water retenson the rock is alittle poress and seem to compare to hydrotron but the salt build up, no clue system hasnt been running long enough to tell.
as for the savings a truck load of that shit cost what a one bag of tron does. either way time will tell


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## noobiefarmer (Feb 16, 2011)

I was wondering if I purchased the Cap Ebb and Gro , If it is realistic to fit 9 buckets in a 5x5 gro hut. I just did a round with soil and I am not found of having to crawl into the hut . I have 1000 watt light . I am using co2 bucket . Is 9 buckets too cramped ? I am planning on flowering when plant hits 18 inches ? 

Thanks 
Noobie farmer


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2011)

im runing 29 in a 10x10 tent, so 9 in a 5x5 is fine
i flipped them a 20in


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## researchkitty (Feb 16, 2011)

noobiefarmer said:


> I was wondering if I purchased the Cap Ebb and Gro , If it is realistic to fit 9 buckets in a 5x5 gro hut. I just did a round with soil and I am not found of having to crawl into the hut . I have 1000 watt light . I am using co2 bucket . Is 9 buckets too cramped ? I am planning on flowering when plant hits 18 inches ?
> 
> Thanks
> Noobie farmer


Welcome to the site, noobie farmer =) 9 buckets under a 1000w lamp is no problem. Flowering at 18" tall will generally give you 50" tall plants when they are ready to harvest, that *might* be a little big for ya. Try to flower them when they are 10-12" tall, and then adjust on the second grow with more or less veg time based on whatever the strain does for you. Each strain grows different heights too, so running the same strain in 9 buckets will be very beneficial to keeping an even canopy.

Right now I have 1000w lamps with mostly 16 under each light, flower at 8-10" tall. Some lights have 12 plants under em, and that's to see which yields more but I wont find out for another 2 months as they just started flowering. If you want to see some pictures of plants in various stages check my grow journal out in my signature. There's about 300 pictures in the thread and I update it every week.


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## med4u (Feb 16, 2011)

hey now,good deal alert,if you got one of those dollar tree stores around they got 2.5 gal black buckets in there for ya $1.00 each! snatch em up while supplies last!


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 16, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> Welcome to the site, noobie farmer =) 9 buckets under a 1000w lamp is no problem. Flowering at 18" tall will generally give you 50" tall plants when they are ready to harvest, that *might* be a little big for ya. Try to flower them when they are 10-12" tall, and then adjust on the second grow with more or less veg time based on whatever the strain does for you. Each strain grows different heights too, so running the same strain in 9 buckets will be very beneficial to keeping an even canopy.
> 
> Right now I have 1000w lamps with mostly 16 under each light, flower at 8-10" tall. Some lights have 12 plants under em, and that's to see which yields more but I wont find out for another 2 months as they just started flowering. If you want to see some pictures of plants in various stages check my grow journal out in my signature. There's about 300 pictures in the thread and I update it every week.


Haha damn.....I have 4 plants under each 1000w. Vegged a month or so. I filled about 50% of the light footprint in veg this time around. Hopefully it wont be too much. I have a plant limit here in CA, so I grow fewer numbers of large plants. All LST, so I can spread the sites out and get good light penetration. I feel that growing larger plants helps to maximize the genetic potential of the strain, and maximizes efficiency.


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## researchkitty (Feb 16, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Haha damn.....I have 4 plants under each 1000w. Vegged a month or so. I filled about 50% of the light footprint in veg this time around. Hopefully it wont be too much. I have a plant limit here in CA, so I grow fewer numbers of large plants. All LST, so I can spread the sites out and get good light penetration. I feel that growing larger plants helps to maximize the genetic potential of the strain, and maximizes efficiency.


For my first ebb & grow I did 18 plants over 2000watts of lights, vegged em for a month. Woops  Added another 2000w of lights and had two 4 packs and two 5 packs of plants under the lights halfway through flower. Got about 4 ounces dry off of each plant, extremely well ventilated area and optimal everything. They sure took a while to trim............


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 17, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> For my first ebb & grow I did 18 plants over 2000watts of lights, vegged em for a month. Woops  Added another 2000w of lights and had two 4 packs and two 5 packs of plants under the lights halfway through flower. Got about 4 ounces dry off of each plant, extremely well ventilated area and optimal everything. They sure took a while to trim............


Nice. Im shooting for 6 oscars per...total of 24 ozs per 1000w. Not a bad goal I think!


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## researchkitty (Feb 17, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Nice. Im shooting for 6 oscars per...total of 24 ozs per 1000w. Not a bad goal I think!


6 ounces per is a lot, but yea that long veg time will help and lollipop em too! Lots of fresh air if you dont have co2, 24oz off of 1000w is very reasonable for the average great strain


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## i81two (Feb 18, 2011)

So yea, its cheaper the first harvest. Then if you decide to re-use your system and grow more than just one harvest worth, you have to re-buy the rockwool instead of just rinsing Hydroton. =) (Plus the rockwool is really more ebb & FLOW this is ebb & GROW) (Flow=Flood trays/rockwool gigantic cubes, Grow=Buckets with Hydroton(Generally, some idiots still use STG inserts).[/QUOTE]

It is hardly an expense worth worrying about compared to all the labor associated with the hydroton. Ive done both and therre is no comparison.

Ebb and Gro, Ebb and flow. They are pretty much the same. You are flowing water over a medium for a period of time and then draining back to your rez. The only diff is the buckets act as the tray or a bunch of little ones if you will. 

Also i wouldnt call anyone an idiot over the medium they use. If it works for them than great.

All i can say to the hydroton users in E&G is try one 6x6 RW cube in your next grow and i think you will be pleasantly suprised.


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## researchkitty (Feb 18, 2011)

i81two said:


> It is hardly an expense worth worrying about compared to all the labor associated with the hydroton. Ive done both and therre is no comparison.
> 
> Ebb and Gro, Ebb and flow. They are pretty much the same. You are flowing water over a medium for a period of time and then draining back to your rez. The only diff is the buckets act as the tray or a bunch of little ones if you will.
> 
> ...


So much bad information here, where to start..........

Ebb & GROW which is the FOCUS of this thread, uses BUCKETS. Feel free to continue exploring 6" rockwool cubes, in en ebb & FLOW thread, not ebb & GROW. 

Calling someone an idiot over experimenting with medium and telling others to use it when they dont even know the difference between the two is great. they are an idiot for messing with a known system and trying to be cute by saving money when they recommend it and dont realize that its detrimental to the system, not beneficial. 


"Hey you can jump off that bridge, its pretty safe I tried it twice, OH YEA you could just use the stairs though I just never tried it yet, bridge is less maintenance and hassle to just jump off of, only dorks use the stairs lol"



Anyway, to sum it up twice:

--> NO CRUSHED GRANITE as a growing medium, use that your an idiot. 

--> Dont use 6" Rockwool cubes, WE USE BUCKETS NOT FLOOD TABLES. Recommend other products for OTHER SYSTEMS in THEIR THREADS, not the one about a bucket. 

Make sense?


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## shnkrmn (Feb 18, 2011)

Kitty has to keep everyone on the same page; apparently she believes it's her job. She would have made a good bolshevik. And idiot is her favorite word for anyone she disagrees with, 'fucking idiot' in my case. Semantics are very important to her, so don't use the wrong words or terms or you will get flamed. Oh, and you will fail if you don't follow her beliefs in every way. No freedom to experiment, or if you do, keep it secret from RK.

You can talk about any technique you want in this thread. It's not Kitty's, she didn't start it, she has absolutely no say over who or what gets posted here,


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## researchkitty (Feb 18, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> Kitty has to keep everyone on the same page; apparently she believes it's her job. She would have made a good bolshevik. And idiot is her favorite word for anyone she disagrees with, 'fucking idiot' in my case. Semantics are very important to her, so don't use the wrong words or terms or you will get flamed. Oh, and you will fail if you don't follow her beliefs in every way. No freedom to experiment, or if you do, keep it secret from RK.
> 
> You can talk about any technique you want in this thread. It's not Kitty's, she didn't start it, she has absolutely no say over who or what gets posted here,




Someone got told up once and didnt like it. =) We have a different view apparently. I view my posting in threads as helpful. Maybe that's why my rep is sky high, continual thanks from people asking questions, and general support of the RIU community is strong. Here and there you find a troll, who just wants to post to post and make fun of someone. That post #1307 was yours. Try viewing my post history, and see how much I post here to be supportive and helpful.

If you looked like an idiot in a thread, then sorry, try not to look like an idiot again and post factual information, not bullshit. =P


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## i81two (Feb 18, 2011)

If anyone in the thread sounds like an idiot its you kitty. As a matter of fact you sound like a dumb cunt. It sounds like your more worried about how many posts you have than letting different and proven successfull techniques be heard and used.

Flood and drain and an ebb gro are basicly the same princables. You flood either a tray or a bucket. Pick your poison. Then it flows or drains (whatever the fuck u wanna call it) back to the rez. I dont care if ur using hydroton or RW or ur ole mans skid stained boxer shorts.

This is a great thread. Dont try to fuck it up for people.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 18, 2011)

lol at 'got told up'. Is that some colorful canadianism? Sorry, I'm old and not up on youth lingo.

I just don't like narrow-minded forum bullies. Waving your rep at me is laughable at best.


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## i81two (Feb 18, 2011)

No shit man.

Im growing buds bigger than than footballs with rw in e&g and thats all there is to it. 

I also use the big mama rw in a tray (and i hope kitty doesnt get mad because its against the laws of hydro) and use a drip instead of a flood and drain with them. Wow, how many ways is there to lick pussy err i mean skin a kat err i mean grow pot.


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 18, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> 6 ounces per is a lot, but yea that long veg time will help and lollipop em too! Lots of fresh air if you dont have co2, 24oz off of 1000w is very reasonable for the average great strain


Strain is Grape Stomper. It has Sour D & Chemdog in the genetics, which are both massive yielders.

Someguy15 is an E&Ger on here, and he says he gets damn near 8 oz/plant with a 4 week veg. Not sure about his CO2 status, but my garden follows the laws of physics. I have my exhaust set to come on at 78*F, but even with 4 1000's the temps are barely crackin 72*F in the room....it's been cold. =) I have a passive intake, so fresh air is being drawn in by osmosis while the fan is off. =) It sucks because I just lollipopped em last night, and the whole area smelled like veg this morning because my Phresh filter isnt being utilized.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 19, 2011)

and for some reason kitty calls me a idiot for having a friend useing crushed granite, well fuck his his shit looks great and im using hydroton and it looks good and my 
secound system is going to be RW so Il be watching all three. you know this is the best thing about hydro there not just one way to do it and thats the reason I 
switch to it and if kitty wants to be a forum nazy about what she believes then she needs to start a thread for just her ways cuz this imachure shit is getting old
and geting way off topic. Im a DIY kind of person and love to show the upgrades Ive done to this EBB @ GROW system, and perposing new ideas and I get flamed
by her.


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## mrduke (Feb 19, 2011)

I was woundering when the majority of this threads poster would've had enough of 'ol miss kitty's shit. about time. Open your mind and shut your mouth


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## powerplant74 (Feb 19, 2011)

How many times a day are you guys flooding with RW and under how many watts? 
I know it's varies from room to room and a few things factor into the flood times.


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## nahikuroots (Feb 19, 2011)

Friends,
This is a forum. It is a place to share ideas and opinions or what some may consider facts. The truth here is that we are seeking stability amongst many variables. The best way to achieve this is with accurate data. But how do we know which data is accurate? Besides not being able to verify each others credentials, there is an inherent amount of paranoia and secretiveness associated with this process that makes this difficult as well. IMO showing some discipline about how you share information would be the first step to establishing credentials worth following or believing in. This includes accurately describing situations and data with decent grammar and hopefully some pictures without sliding in to the use of exaggeration, expletives and emotions.
That being said, if we are operating off a principle of precedence the name of this thread is "for all cap ebb and grow users". The original poster had specific questions about this type of system and sought to "get a good discussion going and compile a good overall document on the system.". Leeway is given to "feel free to add anything else of interest you can think of*. *"
Science has no emotions, it only seeks truth. So if you have methods that are different than mine (with this system) and are getting good results then please, by all means share your information and share it as accurately as possible. The more data we get, the more precise we can be about the how & why of our results.


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## mrduke (Feb 19, 2011)

nahikuroots said:


> Friends,
> This is a forum. It is a place to share ideas and opinions or what some may consider facts. The truth here is that we are seeking stability amongst many variables. The best way to achieve this is with accurate data. But how do we know which data is accurate? Besides not being able to verify each others credentials, there is an inherent amount of paranoia and secretiveness associated with this process that makes this difficult as well. IMO showing some discipline about how you share information would be the first step to establishing credentials worth following or believing in. This includes accurately describing situations and data with decent grammar and hopefully some pictures without sliding in to the use of exaggeration, expletives and emotions.
> That being said, if we are operating off a principle of precedence the name of this thread is "for all cap ebb and grow users". The original poster had specific questions about this type of system and sought to "get a good discussion going and compile a good overall document on the system.". Leeway is given to "feel free to add anything else of interest you can think of*. *"
> Science has no emotions, it only seeks truth. So if you have methods that are different than mine (with this system) and are getting good results then please, by all means share your information and share it as accurately as possible. The more data we get, the more precise we can be about the how & why of our results.
> View attachment 1450097View attachment 1450099View attachment 1450100View attachment 1450108View attachment 1450109View attachment 1450110View attachment 1450111View attachment 1450112View attachment 1450113View attachment 1450114


Now this is probably the most well though out statment in this entire thread + rep to you sir


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## i81two (Feb 19, 2011)

powerplant74 said:


> How many times a day are you guys flooding with RW and under how many watts?
> I know it's varies from room to room and a few things factor into the flood times.


I flood for 30 min an hour after the lights come on and for 30 min about 2 hours before they go out. Remmember that im in rw.

In hydroton i used to flood 3-4 times daily with same time scheme.


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## tricka (Feb 19, 2011)

Hey guys i was interested a few monthss ago in this cap system but then i also been following this blokes vids on you tube and well here is his last video, you cant tekl for yourself jhe is not happy... lol fucking shit, puss fucking crap shit fuck....lol

tell me what ya reckon??? whats your thoughts and experiences??
[video=youtube;I_RXrs9HbDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_RXrs9HbDM[/video]


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## i81two (Feb 19, 2011)

This guy was singing praises about the same system a while back.

I personally have not had one leak since going to EG. 

Maybe he is to rough with his shit or maybe there is something more personal going on that he isnt sharing with us.


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## horsepower850 (Feb 19, 2011)

tricka said:


> Hey guys i was interested a few monthss ago in this cap system but then i also been following this blokes vids on you tube and well here is his last video, you cant tekl for yourself jhe is not happy... lol fucking shit, puss fucking crap shit fuck....lol
> 
> tell me what ya reckon??? whats your thoughts and experiences??
> [video=youtube;I_RXrs9HbDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_RXrs9HbDM[/video]


Yes I agree with some of what he is saying. I'm in my second run with CAP Bucket system. They screwed me in the begining by sending me 2 different kinds of outer buckets. One has the recess in the bottom that is great for draining the others do not. The only way to get the good buckets is to spend the over priced $60.00 for the add on kits that only come with 6 inner and outer buckets. The quality of plastic is about as cheap as it gets and they sell the systems at a very high price. As far as the leaking, you have to only push in the connectors until the 3rd ring on the barb to get a good seal. Also you have to be very attentive to the condition of the rubber on the grommets. The grommets that come with the add on kits are crap. I have had to use better quality grommets from General Hydro. When I confronted CAP about these problems with their equipment I did not get a resolution from them. So I built my own bucket system for about 1/2 the price of their overpriced crap. I did have to buy CAP add on bucket kits to get all of the good buckets with the recess in the bottom which was the greatest cost in building this system. As for the controller bucket I found a great "build it yourself" kit from 
http://www.aquahub.com/store/product39.html. The kit costs $120 and it has more safety switches than the one CAP sells and comes with a much better timer. I think CAP needs to step up their quality and start handling customer service better and most of all "LOWER THE PRICE"!


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## nahikuroots (Feb 19, 2011)

That video illustrates my point. All of his ranting and raving and passionate opinions seem very unnecessary. Obviously with minimal research we can find many people that attest to the opposite of what he is saying. Instead of trying to isolate his problem he is convinced of his infallibility and lays the blame solely on the system. I have had leaks with this system, They are generally easy to diagnose and fix. IMO here is his problem and it takes about 10 seconds to spot.

If you look closely you can see which setup creates a more effective seal.


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## researchkitty (Feb 19, 2011)

i81two said:


> If anyone in the thread sounds like an idiot its you kitty. As a matter of fact you sound like a dumb cunt. It sounds like your more worried about how many posts you have than letting different and proven successfull techniques be heard and used.
> 
> Flood and drain and an ebb gro are basicly the same princables. You flood either a tray or a bucket. Pick your poison. Then it flows or drains (whatever the fuck u wanna call it) back to the rez. I dont care if ur using hydroton or RW or ur ole mans skid stained boxer shorts.
> 
> This is a great thread. Dont try to fuck it up for people.


Calling me a cunt wont help your cause. Try being a grown up. You want to call me a dumb cunt and that I dont know my stuff? Ok, check my grow journal. I'd check yours, but................ Additionally, my post count is pretty low, but go read all of them. You'll see most all of my posts are helpful, most of yours are well...........

6" Rockwool can be used in E&G Buckets. We all know this. That wasnt the conversation, the conversation was the *cost* of that versus Hydroton. You just choose to read whatever posts you want and argue later.

Still, your argument that E&G and F&D systems are same except they drain through a different hole? That's very technically inaccurate. The growing environment is completely different. Buckets create more height for plants. Cubes hold more water vs Hydroton. Flood times will be different. Nutrient buildup will be different. Algae growth potential is different. The flood and drain times are different. One has a consumable replacement cost, the other does not.

There's so much that's different.

But again, that's why this is the "for all cap ebb and grow users" thread and you can discuss any goofy alternatives you like in others.




shnkrmn said:


> lol at 'got told up'. Is that some colorful canadianism? Sorry, I'm old and not up on youth lingo.
> 
> I just don't like narrow-minded forum bullies. Waving your rep at me is laughable at best.


I'm an open minded forum bully. I dont wave my rep at anyone. Why would you assume I do? You have more posts and rep than me and you're telling that to me?






The difference between both of you and me is simple.


*I* am a constructive poster. You both are just posting to bitch. Argue with constructive thoughts and try to improve things instead of just being trolls and hating me so much for being right. If I'm wrong, please, correct me, but you dont have to be calling people dumb cunts. (Reported, too thanks for that)


Notice each time I reply, it isnt to post, but to correct a point of misinformation or to answer a question? My post here did that yet again..... I cant wait to read your stupid replies with zero constructive or educational information in them. If you dont have anything useful to say, please stop bumping this thread to 2000 posts of garbage. I'll be right here ready to correct your misinformed, uneducated, and inaccurate "help" you type to others.


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## researchkitty (Feb 19, 2011)

The guy in the CAP video is a terribly, horrible grower. He has hundreds of Youtube videos and in each of them he complains of all the diseases, mold, insects, part problems, plant problems, etc......... If he spent 350 videos worth of time growing he'd have something much nicer to smoke!


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## afrothund3r (Feb 19, 2011)

Hey guys I'm in week 2 of flower and my plants have stopped drinking water and the ph keeps raising from 6 to 7 in 24 hours. I'm running 18 plants with hydroton and the technaflora recipe for success. Any suggestions on the problem and what I should do. 

I was thinking I should flush the res and plants for 24 hours and then mix up 40 gallons of 3/4 strength.

Thanks in advance


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## tricka (Feb 19, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> Calling me a cunt wont help your cause. Try being a grown up. You want to call me a dumb cunt and that I dont know my stuff? Ok, check my grow journal. I'd check yours, but................ Additionally, my post count is pretty low, but go read all of them. You'll see most all of my posts are helpful, most of yours are well...........
> 
> 6" Rockwool can be used in E&G Buckets. We all know this. That wasnt the conversation, the conversation was the *cost* of that versus Hydroton. You just choose to read whatever posts you want and argue later.
> 
> ...


 
maybe you guys can fight it out between ya's who deserves this vid to be sent to them
[video=youtube;5hfYJsQAhl0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0&feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## shnkrmn (Feb 20, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> I view my posting in threads as helpful. Maybe that's why my rep is sky high, continual thanks from people asking questions, and general support of the RIU community is strong.


Rep-brandishing, lol. Don't bother to respond, Kitty. I know it's hard not to, but you just look like a bigger fool. I'm done with this argument. It seems quite a few people in this thread would like you to tone it down. So do it.


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## i81two (Feb 20, 2011)

I will nolonger reply to her "get the arguement started posts". She is close minded and as a matter of fact seems to be the troll that she calls other members. 

And yes i think alot of people are tired of her little girl, pissy, pms attitude.

Goodbye and i hope you get spider mites. If you dont already have em.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 20, 2011)

yah im very tired of the moody kitty and I also will just ignore anything said by her/him/shim or whatever it is. I would like to move on to
helping and learning to dial in this system for experts and geen horns. the one thing we all got to understand is that theres no one set way to run 
this system so let get back to the info/learning and not the forum/bully shit thats killing this thread and others like it.


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 20, 2011)

afrothund3r said:


> Hey guys I'm in week 2 of flower and my plants have stopped drinking water and the ph keeps raising from 6 to 7 in 24 hours. I'm running 18 plants with hydroton and the technaflora recipe for success. Any suggestions on the problem and what I should do.
> 
> I was thinking I should flush the res and plants for 24 hours and then mix up 40 gallons of 3/4 strength.
> 
> Thanks in advance


For starters, I would toss the Technaflora and get some GH 3-part. Your pH is rising because you probably have funk in your water from the nutes. Flush your system with some peroxide in your water, and mix a new batch. H2O2 is awesome stuff.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 20, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> For starters, I would toss the Technaflora and get some GH 3-part. Your pH is rising because you probably have funk in your water from the nutes. Flush your system with some peroxide in your water, and mix a new batch. H2O2 is awesome stuff.


I agree with the going to the 3 part system but before you go GH look into advanced nutes grow micro bloom Im geting way better 
results and ive used GH for years and I wont be going back.


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## afrothund3r (Feb 20, 2011)

Ok, I will do a res flush tomarrow. 

What about using bleach? I came across a thread that mentions using bleach instead of H2o2. Has anyone used bleach in there E&G with sucess? and if so what dilution.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 20, 2011)

I have and now use it over H202, use plain bleach at 10ML for 55gal and it will kill all bactira, I use it at the start of the week then at 
day 3 of the week I use H202 at 7ML per gal then at the end of the week I add the bleach again and so on and so forth. My method
of using both is based on me trying to limit the bleach in my res. plants look great no signs of anything and my res water crystal
clear and PH 5.8 and stable.


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## afrothund3r (Feb 21, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I have and now use it over H202, use plain bleach at 10ML for 55gal and it will kill all bactira, I use it at the start of the week then at
> day 3 of the week I use H202 at 7ML per gal then at the end of the week I add the bleach again and so on and so forth. My method
> of using both is based on me trying to limit the bleach in my res. plants look great no signs of anything and my res water crystal
> clear and PH 5.8 and stable.



Thank you very much!!!


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 21, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I have and now use it over H202, use plain bleach at 10ML for 55gal and it will kill all bactira, I use it at the start of the week then at
> day 3 of the week I use H202 at 7ML per gal then at the end of the week I add the bleach again and so on and so forth. My method
> of using both is based on me trying to limit the bleach in my res. plants look great no signs of anything and my res water crystal
> clear and PH 5.8 and stable.


Can't even tell you how sketchy I think this is.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 21, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Can't even tell you how sketchy I think this is.


I know but it works very well. I waited 2 month of reading all the bad things people were saying about bleach
but nobody had any facts to back it up, and I was able to find info and a few people on RIU and the net that use it. 
so I went ahead and just took a great leep of faith and used it. and like I said before Il never go back.
the bleach disapates at the same rate as the H202. so I alternate the 2.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 21, 2011)

It's true. People just say 'don't use it.' They never cite authority other than anecdote; "This great guy swears you can't do it" kind of stuff.

I don't use it as a maintenance program like Hellraizer30, but I have. My plants speak for themselves.

10ml in 55 gallons. Do the math. It's not that much. I used more, .5ml/gallon.


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 22, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> It's true. People just say 'don't use it.' They never cite authority other than anecdote; "This great guy swears you can't do it" kind of stuff.
> 
> I don't use it as a maintenance program like Hellraizer30, but I have. My plants speak for themselves.
> 
> 10ml in 55 gallons. Do the math. It's not that much. I used more, .5ml/gallon.


I can understand how a complete and total lack of chemistry knowledge would lead you to that conclusion. Get your notepad out.

Lets take a look at the two molecules involved here. Sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) is NaClO. In water, it partially splits into Na+ and ClO- (hypochlorite anion), and partially hydrolyzes into sodium hydroxide (basically pH up) and hypochlorous acid (depending on pH...higher pH favors the first reaction). 

This is a reactive material that is terrible to add to a hydroponic solution for many reasons: 
-Hypochlorite solutions liberate toxic gases (chlorine) when acidified or heated
-Hypochlorite reacts with ammonia (NH3, a molecule involved in the N cycle) to form chloramines, which are toxic and potentially explosive
-Hypochlorite reacts with organic matter to produce trihalomethanes- carcinogenic molecules
-Hypochlorite will also react with Zinc, Iron, Manganese, and Nitrite ions
-Hydrochloric and sulfuric acid, and a whole host of other harsh molecules can also form depending on what is present in your water.
-You are also accumulating sodium in your solution, which will skew your EC.

Now, hydrogen peroxide - H202. It decomposes exothermically in water to form (2 H2O + O2), or water and oxygen. 


An interesting note, however, is the product of the reaction between these two molecules. Sodium hypochlorite and hydrogen peroxide react to form water, sodium chloride (NaCl, table salt) and pure oxygen gas (O2).


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## shnkrmn (Feb 22, 2011)

How much chlorine gas is liberated from 25ml of 5% sodium hypochlorite?

How much chloramine is produced from a reaction between 25ml 5% sodium hypochlorite and ammonia?

How much trichloromethanes are produced etc, etc.

I don't use bleach for maintenance so I'm not building up sodium in my solution.




25ml/250L. Again, the scale of the reactions you describe above are minimal.

I'm tired of bleach as a topic. Obviously there are lots of strong opinions. I'll be happy to continue discussing it in private, but let's let it rest in this thread, okay? Plus, your tone is a little too combative with the "complete and total lack of chemistry knowledge' comment. Leave the insults alone.



Ferredoxin said:


> I can understand how a complete and total lack of chemistry knowledge would lead you to that conclusion. Get your notepad out.
> 
> Lets take a look at the two molecules involved here. Sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) is NaClO. In water, it partially splits into Na+ and ClO- (hypochlorite anion), and partially hydrolyzes into sodium hydroxide (basically pH up) and hypochlorous acid (depending on pH...higher pH favors the first reaction).
> 
> ...


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 22, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> How much chlorine gas is liberated from 25ml of 5% sodium hypochlorite?
> 
> How much chloramine is produced from a reaction between 25ml 5% sodium hypochlorite and ammonia?
> 
> ...


I agree it work for me and others and to those that dont agree we can just agree to disagree and move on to other issues of secess of this system.
one thing I would like to see sinse Im more of a DIY guy and have mod/upgraded my system I would like to see others people setups, may bring
some life to the EBB GROW thread.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 22, 2011)

One of the most interesting mods I have seen with the E&G is buried way back in this thread. I guy used stg inserts in 5 inch netpots in a lid on his buckets. I know, STG is shit in E&G if you use the inserts that fill the buckets, but his scheme just supported the plants until the roots grew out of the netpot and then hung down into the flood zone of the bucket. His roots (and plants) were spectacular. I imagine he flooded a little more often, since his roots were just hanging in air between floods, but the elimination of hydroton completely was intriguing. And the way he used stg eliminated IMO the weak design flaw of that material which is that it holds to much water and doesn't support large plants well. I'll go back and find that post when I get a chance.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 22, 2011)

*The Villans 5,300 watt 3 room perpetual grow going into first flower phase 48 plant
Here's a pic a grabbed from the Villan's grow. As you see, his roots hang free inside the bucket without need for hydroton. Pretty sweet if you ask me.
*


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 22, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> One of the most interesting mods I have seen with the E&G is buried way back in this thread. I guy used stg inserts in 5 inch netpots in a lid on his buckets. I know, STG is shit in E&G if you use the inserts that fill the buckets, but his scheme just supported the plants until the roots grew out of the netpot and then hung down into the flood zone of the bucket. His roots (and plants) were spectacular. I imagine he flooded a little more often, since his roots were just hanging in air between floods, but the elimination of hydroton completely was intriguing. And the way he used stg eliminated IMO the weak design flaw of that material which is that it holds to much water and doesn't support large plants well. I'll go back and find that post when I get a chance.


Im am very interested in the thought of not using hydrotron, and is there a a special lid with a net pot biult into it or did he DIY a hole and placed
a net pot. God if that worked and he got good results and all he would have to do that i see is step up the flood time, and not having to wash/clean
the rock would be cool. It would be way eazy to test it and I will as soon as I get some info on the basket/lid thing hes using, try it with one of my
buckets


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 22, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> *The Villans 5,300 watt 3 room perpetual grow going into first flower phase 48 plant*
> *Here's a pic a grabbed from the Villan's grow. As you see, his roots hang free inside the bucket without need for hydroton. Pretty sweet if you ask me.*


dam you beat me to the post lol. +rep


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 22, 2011)

does that net pot lid combo fit the bucket with the cap system? but holy shit those are some crazy roots!!


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## shnkrmn (Feb 22, 2011)

Yea, and it's all roots. I THINK he found bucket lids that actually fit his E&G buckets. You'd have to check to verify that. As a guy who works with hydroton all the time, it's tempting to try out. I might try a mother or two in that rig. 

EDIT: One concern that hit me is with the bucket being largely empty, you might find plants get pretty top heavy and want to fall over during late flower. What a problem to have, lol.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 22, 2011)

looks like the roots are not having any issue with that water thats left behind during a drain cycle, almost like they love it wierd.
im going to get with my hydro store buddy and find out if there are form fitted lids for the CAP buckets. not sure I would use stg
flock style medium but I would probibly use hydrotron just in the baskets if this setup end up working.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 22, 2011)

yea, that makes sense.


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## i81two (Feb 22, 2011)

Someone can correct me if im wrong but i wanted to use the same net pots with hydroton in the begining.

They dont make a net pot bucket top that fits the cap buckets, but they do make em to fit the 3 and 5 gallon buckets. They make the net pots in 6" and 8''. The only draw backs to a big bucket is ur rez needs to be as big as a swimming pool, and u still need hydroton.

Im telling you guys that RW works really well and the 6x6 fits perfect into a stock EG bucket and it takes up so much space that a 55 gall rez can run approx. 75 plants.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 22, 2011)

i81two said:


> Someone can correct me if im wrong but i wanted to use the same net pots with hydroton in the begining.
> 
> They dont make a net pot bucket top that fits the cap buckets, but they do make em to fit the 3 and 5 gallon buckets. They make the net pots in 6" and 8''. The only draw backs to a big bucket is ur rez needs to be as big as a swimming pool, and u still need hydroton.
> 
> Im telling you guys that RW works really well and the 6x6 fits perfect into a stock EG bucket and it takes up so much space that a 55 gall rez can run approx. 75 plants.


ok a 6x6 RW cube fits in a circle bucket, I understand that BUT there should be a gap on all 4 sides of the cube? or is the 6x6 cube fits so tight that it fills the
gap? also you say the density if it fill the bucket in such a way that you could run 70+ bucket of a single 55gal res?

can you please post some pics of this?


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## i81two (Feb 22, 2011)

Yes there is a little air space on all four sides, but it doesnt matter cuz the roots grow in the rw and down out of the bucket like normal.

As far as the rez size goes... I actually run a 90 gallon rez for 75 plants and at the end of a water cycle the rez is a little more than half full. I have never measured the amount of water but im real close with those guestamations. Also now thatv i think about it i have all my buckets up an inch and a half on a 2x8... so that will make it take a little less water.

I wont bug you guys no more with it, but if u got questions im here.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 22, 2011)

Im very interested in your method and the basket one and will be running experements on both to see and understand what one is a better 
and less labor way of doing it. hydrotrons a bitch but it works well but if theres better Im into that 100%


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## i81two (Feb 22, 2011)

Great to see some open minded people out there.

Its the way to maximize your yeild.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 23, 2011)

Im going to bump this cus I love this system/topic and dont want it to get lost!!
so anybody with some ideas are very welcome!!


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## shnkrmn (Feb 23, 2011)

I just saw a great tip in another thread for cleaning hydroton; zip it in a mesh bag and throw it in the washing machine. It cleans it and also washes out all the small particles that break off the pellets.


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 23, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> How much chlorine gas is liberated from 25ml of 5% sodium hypochlorite?
> 
> How much chloramine is produced from a reaction between 25ml 5% sodium hypochlorite and ammonia?
> 
> ...


True. My main concern would be sodium/chlorine accumulation though. But if it works, it works. Wasn't trying to be insulting, just observing. Moving on.


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## horsepower850 (Feb 23, 2011)

Yes I too think that alternating bleach and H2O2 is a great method. i use 10ml of bleach per 55 gal also.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 23, 2011)

been working for me and it keeping the bleach build up if there was going to be one down although i dont think it would build up.
my roots are as whit as ive ever seen them and starting to see alot of small hairs off the large main roots


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## i81two (Feb 24, 2011)

Will H2O2 kill benificials ?


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 24, 2011)

i81two said:


> Will H2O2 kill benificials ?


yes thats the only bad thing about it.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 24, 2011)

hey how can we get this thread stickyed


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 24, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> yes thats the only bad thing about it.


I can understand why people would want beneficials in soil, but not in a hydro system....at least not a hydro system with skinny tubes and dark buckets with lots of crevices for shit to grow in. If you are THAT concerned with a microherd, then this system is probably not for you.


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 24, 2011)

What kind of water use rates is everyone seeing with this system? I am having to add damn near 5 gallons of H2O per day for a 16 bucket grow that was flipped to 12/12 a week ago. If you follow the Lucas rule of draining and refilling your res once you have added back 50% of your starting volume of fresh water, I would have to drain, clean and refill every 4 days (only filling the res to 40 gallons)!! That seems excessive. The other Lucas method requires the topping fraction to be full strengh nute solution, and you can get by with this method without draining the res for a few weeks. My issue is with the nutrient ratios being all over the place with both of these methods. I dont want to have to deal with synergism/antagonism that can cause false deficiency/false toxicity symptoms.

What is everyone else doing/seeing?


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 24, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> What kind of water use rates is everyone seeing with this system? I am having to add damn near 5 gallons of H2O per day for a 16 bucket grow that was flipped to 12/12 a week ago. If you follow the Lucas rule of draining and refilling your res once you have added back 50% of your starting volume of fresh water, I would have to drain, clean and refill every 4 days (only filling the res to 40 gallons)!! That seems excessive. The other Lucas method requires the topping fraction to be full strengh nute solution, and you can get by with this method without draining the res for a few weeks. My issue is with the nutrient ratios being all over the place with both of these methods. I dont want to have to deal with synergism/antagonism that can cause false deficiency/false toxicity symptoms.
> 
> What is everyone else doing/seeing?


dude im running 29 on my system and there taking 15 gal a day!! fing crazy


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 25, 2011)

So are you just topping off with water, or are you adding nutes + water?


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 25, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> So are you just topping off with water, or are you adding nutes + water?


my water start at 1300ppm 55gal first top of at 15gal put at 1200ppm and so on and so forth. im at 900ppm today and im at 35gal in the res.
and doing a res change I got 7 days out of a res. so just water


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## horsepower850 (Feb 25, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> What kind of water use rates is everyone seeing with this system? I am having to add damn near 5 gallons of H2O per day for a 16 bucket grow that was flipped to 12/12 a week ago. If you follow the Lucas rule of draining and refilling your res once you have added back 50% of your starting volume of fresh water, I would have to drain, clean and refill every 4 days (only filling the res to 40 gallons)!! That seems excessive. The other Lucas method requires the topping fraction to be full strengh nute solution, and you can get by with this method without draining the res for a few weeks. My issue is with the nutrient ratios being all over the place with both of these methods. I dont want to have to deal with synergism/antagonism that can cause false deficiency/false toxicity symptoms.
> 
> What is everyone else doing/seeing?


 My system has 36 sites and are in week 8 and they are drinking more than 10 gal per day. Throughout the entire cycle I change my res water every week. From about week 1 in flowering I would have add about 75% water half way through the week. I just monitered my PPM and kept it at a certain level according to my nutrient feed chart and I added accordingly per the amout of water I added. It seemed to work pretty well although now I'm starting to show some burning of leaves signs most likely due to shooting powder i'm using. It's ok. They are just about finished and won't matter cause of great trim jobs.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 25, 2011)

horsepower850 said:


> My system has 36 sites and are in week 8 and they are drinking more than 10 gal per day. Throughout the entire cycle I change my res water every week. From about week 1 in flowering I would have add about 75% water half way through the week. I just monitered my PPM and kept it at a certain level according to my nutrient feed chart and I added accordingly per the amout of water I added. It seemed to work pretty well although now I'm starting to show some burning of leaves signs most likely due to shooting powder i'm using. It's ok. They are just about finished and won't matter cause of great trim jobs.


i just let my ppm drop off though the week as I add water and add only if it get bellow 900ppm and at that point im doing a full res change anyhow. and so far Im never geting a burn of anykind.


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## Ferredoxin (Feb 25, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> i just let my ppm drop off though the week as I add water and add only if it get bellow 900ppm and at that point im doing a full res change anyhow. and so far Im never geting a burn of anykind.


What EC does that 900ppm reading come out to be? Because for me, 1300ppms would be about a 2.5 EC, and 900 ppms would be just under 2 (conversion factor of 500). On the Lucas formula, when I add 8ml/gal of Micro and 16ml/gal of Bloom it lands me at 1040ppm or an EC just over 2. My tapwater is about 0.4 EC, or 200 ppms, which leaves me with an actual nutrient EC/PPM of 1.7/840.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 25, 2011)

to tell you the truth im not up on the ec convertion stuff, I use a blue labs trunchion pen and its goes x2 seting one is EC .500 or 500 and that the one i use at 1300ppm
but on the EC .700 or 700 it is like 1900ppm not sure if that helps


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 26, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> What EC does that 900ppm reading come out to be? Because for me, 1300ppms would be about a 2.5 EC, and 900 ppms would be just under 2 (conversion factor of 500). On the Lucas formula, when I add 8ml/gal of Micro and 16ml/gal of Bloom it lands me at 1040ppm or an EC just over 2. My tapwater is about 0.4 EC, or 200 ppms, which leaves me with an actual nutrient EC/PPM of 1.7/840.


ok sorry ferredoxin I have the skinny on what you asked I post rong and im sorry for that
my bluelab truncheon meter 1300ppm is a EC 2.6 on the ECx500 side and on ECx700 CF is ppm of 1820
I use the EC 2.6 for 1300ppm sorry for the mix up Im still learning this shit to lol


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## gamebreaker81 (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi guys I got a stupid question for ya. Can I use a smaller resevoir then the 55 gallon that comes with the CAP? I am gonna have 9 plants using the cap system just wondering if I could get away with using a 23 gallon rezzy? Thanks


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 26, 2011)

gamebreaker81 said:


> Hi guys I got a stupid question for ya. Can I use a smaller resevoir then the 55 gallon that comes with the CAP? I am gonna have 9 plants using the cap system just wondering if I could get away with using a 23 gallon rezzy? Thanks


for 9 you could but you would be doing adding back water alot. now I can tell you this my 55 gal res with 30 gal in it will flood 29 bucket for one day thats x3 floods
and there in week 4 of flower


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## gamebreaker81 (Feb 26, 2011)

Thanks buddy my room is small 4x6 dont have room for a giant reservoir. I was gonna use a rubbermaid slim jim doesnt take up much room at all.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 26, 2011)

gamebreaker81 said:


> Thanks buddy my room is small 4x6 dont have room for a giant reservoir. I was gonna use a rubbermaid slim jim doesnt take up much room at all.


watch cheap plastics made from CPVC give off a gas when chemacals come in contact


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## horsepower850 (Feb 27, 2011)

Ok. Sounds like I'm pushin them too hard at the end. I'll just follow a method like these next time. I'm just gonna flush them with fresh water to keep more burn from spreading. These are done at the end of this week anyway. Thanks for the insight.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 1, 2011)

who do we talk to to get this stickyed?


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 3, 2011)

dam checked on my res today and 24 buckets 4 1/2 weeks into flower and my res was toped at 55gal and today it was 20gals low
and the ppm went from 1300 to 1900. I added back water and got 1300ppm again but dam thats alot of water!!! for one day, any
coments?


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## i81two (Mar 3, 2011)

Do you have a leak ?


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## MoJobud (Mar 3, 2011)

Wait you saying you went through 20 gallons in 1 day for 24 plants?


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 3, 2011)

yep 20 gals maybe a hair less, and no leaks anywhere

yah it breaks down to alittle less than a gal a plant, now im like wtf


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## legallyflying (Mar 3, 2011)

a gallon per plant doesn't seem outrageous to me. If your low humidity and high heat you should expect it. I have a 25 gallon top of tank on my rez and filled it up this weekend. I think it was sunday. Anyways, I went down to the space last night and I can hear the airstone in there. I opened it up and it there was like an 1" of water in there. So that was 25 gallons for 12 plants over 2 days. 

To the above poster looking for a 25 gallon rez. Go to home depot and try to snag one of these... they are tough as shit and don't flex at all. They are money!!!
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202328879/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 3, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> a gallon per plant doesn't seem outrageous to me. If your low humidity and high heat you should expect it. I have a 25 gallon top of tank on my rez and filled it up this weekend. I think it was sunday. Anyways, I went down to the space last night and I can hear the airstone in there. I opened it up and it there was like an 1" of water in there. So that was 25 gallons for 12 plants over 2 days.
> 
> To the above poster looking for a 25 gallon rez. Go to home depot and try to snag one of these... they are tough as shit and don't flex at all. They are money!!!
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202328879/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


48% humidity and a high of 72 and never higher so id say my hum isnt low and temps are perfect and plant look awsome


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## legallyflying (Mar 3, 2011)

Adam Price said:


> Hello,
> I made a homemade flood and drain system (EBB) hydroponic system for growing cannabis. There is a reservoir at the bottom with a pump and the nutrients solution. It gets pumped to the growing bin exactly above. I used a bell siphon that kicks on after the growing container fills past the siphon. It fills the growing bin about every 3 minutes, I am going to use hydroton as my growing medium next time, in the pic I used black cinder, which also works well. I love this system because it works great and I made it for about $50. You can check out the pic here Hydroponics Weed !
> 
> Ask any questions if you have any I would love to help.
> ...


Wow that seems really neat; NOT.
. now burn in hell spammer!!!


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## legallyflying (Mar 3, 2011)

No, that doesn't seem extreme. I'm at 38% humidty, well 38-41% over the course of 24 hours and my temps are in the low 80's. I'm 7th week of flower though. 

I think there is a picture in my grow thread (and recent bud porn) but I can't overemphasize how fucking totally awesome a top off tank is. PPM stays rock solid, the tank helps keep the rez cooler (cause its not going back and forth through that hot ass black tubing), and you never half to worry that your shit is going to run dry or PPM's spike. 

I built mine about a month ago. Left for 5 a day vacation. 1010 PPM and 5.7 when I left.... 980 ppm and 5.8 when I got back.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 3, 2011)

[video=youtube;o77KZAJVhXg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o77KZAJVhXg[/video]


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 3, 2011)

check this out................


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## dnkfrmthasoilz7 (Mar 3, 2011)

Cap suck's out of box. LEAKY!


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 3, 2011)

yes you have a point but its very easy to fix this issue so saying CAP sucks probibly aint helping this thread with negative input.
if you have read any of this thread you would have seen/read solution to this lol, and advanced nutes rock.


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## MoJobud (Mar 4, 2011)

Anyone else have a problem with the drain pump trying to keep the controller level steady? The float on the bottom is at an angle from the factory. As the final bit of water pumps out from the controller via the hose to the res tank it shuts off when the float drops. Great but then the water that didn't make it all the way to the res in the line comes back and creates a wave action and the float goes back up so the pump tries to pump water out and this cycle is never ending.

What did you guys do? I am thinking my line might be too long or is this just common with the CAP system and I just live with it?

Also if you raise your buckets to drain fully, you lose about a good inch of space for hydroton or just grow space. Is this a problem for any of you? Should I just keep the buckets at ground level with the controller?

thanks


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 4, 2011)

raising the buckets is ok dont worry about the loss of hydrotron. and the pump issue will due that I solved it by raising the front of the
command box the side with the timmer on it, only raise it like a 1/8 in so a peace of cardboard is what i did. it lifts the front just enough
to allow all the water in the line to drain back without triggering the switch.


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## MoJobud (Mar 4, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> raising the buckets is ok dont worry about the loss of hydrotron. and the pump issue will due that I solved it by raising the front of the
> command box the side with the timmer on it, only raise it like a 1/8 in so a peace of cardboard is what i did. it lifts the front just enough
> to allow all the water in the line to drain back without triggering the switch.


Sir you are a fucken GENIUS. Thank you. If I wasn't so new to this board I would rep you.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 4, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> Sir you are a fucken GENIUS. Thank you. If I wasn't so new to this board I would rep you.


hey there are more thing that can be done, and should be done to this system, filter bags that go around the pumps to stop hydrotron
chucnks and stuff from geting though. also the CAP pumps are kinda junk so watch them they do go out, I replaced mine as soon as
I could afford it. the bigest reason I mentioned the filter bags are to stop junk from geting in the little float switches in the command
box, had one stick up and burn a pump up.


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## MoJobud (Mar 4, 2011)

I hear you. I knew of the other alternatives out there prior to purchasing the CAP unit yet I still wanted to see first hand and then possibly build my own. First thing I would do is raise the damn timer.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 4, 2011)

yep just a 1/8th in. makes a world of difference.


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## hempdaddy (Mar 9, 2011)

nice thread. i'm looking forward to try this waterculture/floodtable hybrid.
here's my question, how does this system stack up against its competition? i've seen on ebay some knock off bucket systems, some of them claim to have improved feature set; then there's the sentinel mef1, and the undercurrent, which is highly regarded by growers up north.

to the kitty fight featherweights, ya'll need some perspective. growin, like everything else in this universe, is about balance. here's what i mean
bleach is great for disinfecting things, sterilizing environment and whatnot, it's really good at killing things, should you run into any pest or fungi problem it can be a quick cure. however if u introduce lots of microorganisms to the rootzone it wouldn't make much sense to use bleach too often. 
there are people claiming u can't go above 90 degrees growin. I've grown time n again in temp in the 100's and even higher. they will do fine and produce lots, as long as u can move enough air and provide enough carbon dioxide. 
hydroton and rockwool, both are great, time tested, tried n true grow medium. hydroton is novice-friendly, easy to use, the little pallets can be tough to manage at times, and the pallets look nasty when dry, but the ability to reuse more than make up for it. rockwool is somewhat more difficult to use, some could give you wild pH drifts, not to mention should the grower really screws up, disease and pests in the rootzone could be tough to treat; however rockwool is really popular among commercial users, cause when rw is used efficiently, it will provide a level of simplicity around the rootzone no other medium come close to.
in the end, it doesn't matter what u use, each part has its pros and cons. it's about finding your balance, it's about how u put the pieces of the puzzle together to design a strategy that accentuates your advantages while mitigating the disadvantages, a strategy that best fit around the environment you have and the resources you employ.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 9, 2011)

hempdaddy said:


> nice thread. i'm looking forward to try this waterculture/floodtable hybrid.
> here's my question, how does this system stack up against its competition? i've seen on ebay some knock off bucket systems, some of them claim to have improved feature set; then there's the sentinel mef1, and the undercurrent, which is highly regarded by growers up north.
> 
> to the kitty fight featherweights, ya'll need some perspective. growin, like everything else in this universe, is about balance. here's what i mean
> ...


Ive tryed to order the sentinal mef1 and the company keeps saying its not up for sale or the market yet due to some issue, frome the looks pros/cons of the sentinal
#1 pro raised buckets but I solved this by raising mine
#2 pro digital timer and control box
#3 pro its blue lol JK
#4 cons doesnt come with a res tank
#5 cons isnt on the market to my knoledge even though its advertised
#6 cons and the $ is steep

so I went with the Cap was cheaper and with upgrades its working great


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## MoJobud (Mar 11, 2011)

Anyone here transplant from DWC to Ebb and Grow? Any tips or tricks?


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## shnkrmn (Mar 11, 2011)

I've done that. No tip, no trick. just put some hydroton in the bottom of the bucket and drop in the plant, net pot and all. backfill with hydroton and you're good.


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## MoJobud (Mar 11, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> I've done that. No tip, no trick. just put some hydroton in the bottom of the bucket and drop in the plant, net pot and all. backfill with hydroton and you're good.


thanks. So do you clone in a rockwool cube, transplant to dwc or aero cloner then Ebb and grow? Trying to just use the ebb and grow in my bloom room and want to come up with a good solution for my clone and veg prior to putting them in the E&G system.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 11, 2011)

View attachment 1488332View attachment 1488330ez cloner then to dwc for veg and off to the ebb & grow for flowerView attachment 1488327sorry for the fuzzy pic


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## shnkrmn (Mar 12, 2011)

I clone in aero. When I have roots they go straight into hydroton. Seed I do from rockwool. Those I set so the flood just barely touches the bottom of the RW. DWC is a compact solution if you want to veg a little.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 12, 2011)

nice crop hellraizer


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 12, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> thanks. So do you clone in a rockwool cube, transplant to dwc or aero cloner then Ebb and grow? Trying to just use the ebb and grow in my bloom room and want to come up with a good solution for my clone and veg prior to putting them in the E&G system.


I clone in an aero cloner, then move the babies to a 3x3 flood table in their own 6" net pot with hydroton. When ready i just drop the net pot in the ebb & grow, backfill with the 'ton, and away we go.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 12, 2011)

shnkrmn said:


> nice crop hellraizer


thanks shnkrmn...............


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 12, 2011)

Here are my girls @ just over 3 weeks 12/12 in the Ebb & Gro. What a great system so far. Very easy to maintain, and the plants love it!
View attachment 1490249View attachment 1490250


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 12, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Here are my girls @ just over 3 weeks 12/12 in the Ebb & Gro. What a great system so far. Very easy to maintain, and the plants love it!
> View attachment 1490253View attachment 1490256View attachment 1490249View attachment 1490250


lookin good ferredoxin +rep


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 12, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> lookin good ferredoxin +rep


Thank you sir. This strain is new to me (Grape Stomper aka Sour Grapes). The Hash Plant in the genetics is really showing thru. I cant remember seeing frost like this at 21 days....even the damn stems have trichs all over 'em!


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## solly cholly (Mar 15, 2011)

Hello All,
Just switched from NFT to e&g for more vertical grow space. Luv this thread, lots of info.
Couple of tips Ive learned. When putting this e&g together I vaselined the fittings, very light, makes a better seal. Just like a cars oil filter. Use a hair dryer on the hoses, expands the rubber. Heat for about 30 seconds....saves the fingers.

For bugs, mites, fruitflys, whatever...use no pest strips for 1st two weeks of flower, then take down and store in freezer bags for the next crop. I had mites my 1st crop and have never seen them again.


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## solly cholly (Mar 15, 2011)

Hello all again, 
I forgot I also had a Question. Does anybody use a 1 part nutrient? I have been using botanacare power flower, keeps it simple and cheap. Wondering how much weight I might be losing.


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## afrothund3r (Mar 15, 2011)

Has any one added sugar to their res to add on weight at the end of flower?


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 15, 2011)

Why would you want to add sugar to your res? Are you baking cookies or growing pot?


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 16, 2011)

not sure he means sugar i think he means molasis and no to your Q


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## solly cholly (Mar 16, 2011)

afrothund3r said:


> Has any one added sugar to their res to add on weight at the end of flower?


Yes Clearex works like that. Contains glucose and sucrose which makes the buds sticky and gooey. Dry time can take a little longer.


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## afrothund3r (Mar 16, 2011)

In Jorge Cervates book he says that adding sugar to your plants the last few weeks make them bulk up. I am currently on week 6 with my ebb running technaflora nutes


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 16, 2011)

I dont know about that clearex adding anything other than a flush. and with the sugar to the cap system
I see issues with it in the command box gumming up the float sennsors switches. I believe though Ive
never tryed molassas would do the same thing


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## afrothund3r (Mar 16, 2011)

How about folliar feeding pure sugar mixed in with water? That way it wont gum up the float switches or the pumps


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 16, 2011)

I personally have no experence with that and couldnt say yes or no.
but if you do do it post your results.


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## solly cholly (Mar 16, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I dont know about that clearex adding anything other than a flush. and with the sugar to the cap system
> I see issues with it in the command box gumming up the float sennsors switches. I believe though Ive
> never tryed molassas would do the same thing


Glucose and sucrose are sugars.

Ive only read that mollassas is good for dirt grows.


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## stillgamble (Mar 16, 2011)

how many amps does the pumps use? i thought i read somewhere they use around 10 thats seems real high to me i havent seen anyone talking about it so im thinkin its prob closer to 1 amp.


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 16, 2011)

I am fully aware of the benefits of adding carbohydrates to a SOIL, but it has nothing to do with the plants taking up the sugars. They make a great food for microbes, which in turn help make more nutrients available to the plant. I thought the idea behind flushing was to get more nutes OUT of the soil though. I am still not quite sure why people want to make the buds 'taste' sweeter, because last time I checked we arent eating our product. Has anyone here taken a bong rip of sugar? Im guessing it doesnt taste very good...

As for Clearex, it is glucose/fructose-based. Hellraizer nailed it earlier - sugar is going to foul the shit out of this system. I really doubt that you get a better flush with it. If anything, I would think the flush would be less effective because your flushing solution is already diluted with sugar...effectively decreasing the gradient on which we depend for leaching salts from the medium into the solution. Not to mention you are messing with the gradient between the root cells and solution, increasing the osmotic stress on your plants.

As for foliar sugar, please dont ever do that.


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 16, 2011)

stillgamble said:


> how many amps does the pumps use? i thought i read somewhere they use around 10 thats seems real high to me i havent seen anyone talking about it so im thinkin its prob closer to 1 amp.


The pumps are probably less than 1 amp.


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## stillgamble (Mar 16, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> The pumps are probably less than 1 amp.


thats what i was thinkin. i didnt want to have to run more wire what a pain that would be. as for the clearex is it supposed to be used for flushing salt build up but a tester here ran a side by side test and found it did very little. it does have glucose in it but i havent heard anyone using it to feed the plant. here is what the site says it does or supossed to do lol. "Crop failure is commonly caused by the buildup of nutrient salt deposits in soils or soilless growth media. Clearex is a scientifically formulated isotonic drench solution, which binds with the excess nutrient salt and safely leaches it from the grow media. Clearex is isotonic to create a safe osmotic environment which prevents bacterial and fungal infections often caused by other leaching methods. Clearex is a multi-beneficial water treatment solution used to prevent irreversible wilting and enhance the flavor and yields of your vegetative plants".


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## shnkrmn (Mar 17, 2011)

I have most of a gallon of clearex if anyone wants it. I followed that thread by Homebrewer where he added Great White to his res to see if microbes gave any boost in hydro and he also tested clearex as a flushing agent. Its effect was minimal in comparison to plain water flushing.

Spraying sugar water on your plants would probably plug up the stomata and cause the leaves to suffocate. Houseflies might like it?).


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## smokingrubber (Mar 17, 2011)

Regarding sugar or molases: I wouldn't add that to this system. I've added some Nectar type sweeteners (hydro store stuff), but not religiously. I didn't notice any difference.

I highly recommend using FloraKleen every 30 days though. It's a flushing agent not a sweetener. I run it for 2 days before flower, then again 30 days into flower. Then of course, I run the full dose for 4 days before harvest. 

It seems that things can really start to go haywire in the last 4 weeks of flower. Everything looks fantastic and green up to that point, but then the leaves start to turn and it all can go to shit pretty fast. FloraKleen (for 2 days) at the 30 day mark will REALLY help eliminate that. Do it before the leaves turn and you'll have a much happier crop.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 17, 2011)

Whoa! First post in 11 months! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Howdy Smoking Rubber

I grew A-train and hated it. Never saw your smoke report.


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## axl (Mar 17, 2011)

i agree, i always have that problem. After 4 weeks or so, my plants turn on me. I will try your advice. Thanks. One of the reasons i came up with is that the plants are drinking a ton of water and the nutrient solution can become unbalanced very quickly, and very dramatically. I learned to be anal with the water add backs into the resavore and it helps, and also chaNGING the water more often also helps.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 17, 2011)

View attachment 1500069View attachment 1500068


axl said:


> i agree, i always have that problem. After 4 weeks or so, my plants turn on me. I will try your advice. Thanks. One of the reasons i came up with is that the plants are drinking a ton of water and the nutrient solution can become unbalanced very quickly, and very dramatically. I learned to be anal with the water add backs into the resavore and it helps, and also chaNGING the water more often also helps.


this is week 7 1/2 and no yellow at all there about 25% brown hairs and the ppm is at 1000 
must be the power odf advanced nutes three part with b52/big bud/overdrive there zero def.
and all I do is add back plain tap water adjust ph theres no adding nutes during add back.
and I do a rez change every 2 weeks


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 18, 2011)

Those are lookin nice hellraizer. Im at day 30 on a 50ish day strain and they havent started chunking up yet. How high are your lights from the tops of the plants? They look pretty far for sealed lights, but maybe the pic is deceiving...?


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 18, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Those are lookin nice hellraizer. Im at day 30 on a 50ish day strain and they havent started chunking up yet. How high are your lights from the tops of the plants? They look pretty far for sealed lights, but maybe the pic is deceiving...?


yea I left them all the way up there is x4 600s in there in vented shield and this being my first go in a tent with this many lights
I wasnt sure, and didnt want to burn anything. next time I will drop them. I just started week 8 and went to flush for a week.
what a bitch it was to stablize the ph in strait water took 2 days to get it to stay put at 5.8


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 18, 2011)

I had my thowies about 6-8" away from the tops, but I was seeing some yellowing so I moved them back to about 12". Gonna see how that goes...


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## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 19, 2011)

Is there a better/cheaper system than the CAP?


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 19, 2011)

the cap system is not that much conpared to other system like sentinal and other, if you dont need the fancy res get a trash can for cheap.
and the bucket dont have to be the cap ones, you can just use a cheap bucket without the inner sleave. so if cost is a problem get the 
command box and a cheap trash can and some buckets and Diy your flood lines, this all can be done for $300 bucks


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## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 19, 2011)

Hmmm. The whole system is only $400 on ebay. If the floor isn't totally level do they leak or not empty properly? I'm considering this for some mother plants.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 19, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Hmmm. The whole system is only $400 on ebay. If the floor isn't totally level do they leak or not empty properly? I'm considering this for some mother plants.


Ive got to systems and none of them leaks, ive read they can but I think its user error!! and floor being level to a dagree it should be ok, ive got my buckets raised
2 inch above the command box. guess how unlevel is it?


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## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks for the help. I think this is my best option at this point.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 19, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Thanks for the help. I think this is my best option at this point.


the system itself at $400 aint bad in my opion, ive shoped around for optional 55 gal barrel type res
and there like 100$ if your just doing some mothers id just get a 20$ trash can and the cost of a 
command box plus a 6 bucket expansion pack would be like 200$ no need to buy stuff you dont need


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## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 19, 2011)

Very good advice man. I can get those 50 gal plastic drums off craigslist for like $10 too.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 19, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Very good advice man. I can get those 50 gal plastic drums off craigslist for like $10 too.


dam dude 10 bucks wow cuz where I live theres none on there you should buy all those you can get lol
but I would at least buy a couple it will help with topping of the main res, hauling water suck!! id put
a spair res next to the main with a pump and when it comes time turn it on and top it off woot!!!


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## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 19, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> dam dude 10 bucks wow cuz where I live theres none on there you should buy all those you can get lol
> but I would at least buy a couple it will help with topping of the main res, hauling water suck!! id put
> a spair res next to the main with a pump and when it comes time turn it on and top it off woot!!!


haha that's a great idea. I was thinking about getting a couple for water off the gutter of my house.


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## MoJobud (Mar 20, 2011)

My advice is to build a better controller like the aquahub. The constant drain pump dry heaving to maintain water level with the cap is annoying.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 20, 2011)

you want to make sure those barrels haven't contained things like printers ink or floor stripper, solvents, etc. Chemical residues could give you problems. New is good in this case.

Rain water is great. I collect it and use it. Usually around 30 ppm and slightly acidic.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 20, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> My advice is to build a better controller like the aquahub. The constant drain pump dry heaving to maintain water level with the cap is annoying.


annoying yes but woorking as intended


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## powerplant74 (Mar 22, 2011)

Prop the front of the brain up a half inch or so, and boom no more heaving pumps.


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## MoJobud (Mar 22, 2011)

thanks already tried that. Curious, is your bottom float semi sideways as well?



powerplant74 said:


> Prop the front of the brain up a half inch or so, and boom no more heaving pumps.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 22, 2011)

mine is kinda at a angle


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## hempdaddy (Mar 23, 2011)

i'm scanning through page after page can't seem to find the info i'm looking for
i'd like to know, what's the maximum number of bucket sites this system could support?
if i were to purchase lots of 6 sites extensions, would i be able to expand the cap n gro into a 80 bucket system?
perhaps even a 100 bucket system? and would i need to switch to a bigger reservior at same point?
k thx


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 23, 2011)

it will run 48 but if you want to run more just go get a larger res 125gal res should do 80 fine. keep in mind though
that the larger system the slower the buckets will fill and you need to add more flooding time to your system.
reasoning for this is only so much water can go though a 1/2 in line.


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## genuineapbts (Mar 23, 2011)

I have a question for everyone... Does anyone have problems with the roots clogged up the hose? My plants are still babies and have roots coming out the bottom of the pot. I just figured that in a few weeks the roots will want to follow the water and go towards the hose..??

Thanks.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 24, 2011)

this does happen, its up to you on removing the roots clogging the hole.


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## sparkafire (Mar 24, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> My advice is to build a better controller like the aquahub. The constant drain pump dry heaving to maintain water level with the cap is annoying.


Here you go: http://www.aquahub.com/store/product39.html I am building a custom bucket system using 3 of these that I will be posting on the board soon.


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## genuineapbts (Mar 24, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> this does happen, its up to you on removing the roots clogging the hole.


So how big of a problem is this and is there anything you can do to prevent it in the first place? If it does happen how do you trim the roots?

THANKS!


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 24, 2011)

well it would take a lot of roots to clog that hole and in mine there are root in the line but not enough to 
slow the water by much. if it does cause a problem some trimming of the roots might be need but I would
try to aviod it.


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## MoJobud (Mar 24, 2011)

sparkafire said:


> Here you go: http://www.aquahub.com/store/product39.html I am building a custom bucket system using 3 of these that I will be posting on the board soon.


I got the kit this week. It looks promising.


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## i81two (Mar 24, 2011)

hempdaddy said:


> i'm scanning through page after page can't seem to find the info i'm looking for
> i'd like to know, what's the maximum number of bucket sites this system could support?
> if i were to purchase lots of 6 sites extensions, would i be able to expand the cap n gro into a 80 bucket system?
> perhaps even a 100 bucket system? and would i need to switch to a bigger reservior at same point?
> k thx


 
I run 75 on a 95 gallon rez and it is still half full + some left at end of flood. 

I use rw if that makes a diff.


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## sparkafire (Mar 25, 2011)

i81two said:


> I run 75 on a 95 gallon rez and it is still half full + some left at end of flood.
> 
> I use rw if that makes a diff.


You could run as many as you could fit on a your rez which could be 10,000 gals if you needed and you would have some serious pipe running between the buckets. Run as many as you want the only thing is you do want some reserve left in your rez, how fast you can fill your system (wont do you much good if it takes an hour to fill it). I am running 3/4 hose between my buckets just for added flow. RW for all your medium or just clones?


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## sparkafire (Mar 25, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> I got the kit this week. It looks promising.


Just take your time its pretty fool proof. I did however extend the float switch wires so I could mount it on the wall not on the bucket.


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## i81two (Mar 25, 2011)

takes about 20 min to fill using 1/2" hose


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 25, 2011)

sparkafire said:


> Just take your time its pretty fool proof. I did however extend the float switch wires so I could mount it on the wall not on the bucket.


I like the idea of moveing the timer box off the bucket, no more bending over to see the timer!! thats my next upgrade thanks for the great idea +rep


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## MoJobud (Mar 25, 2011)

sparkafire said:


> Just take your time its pretty fool proof. I did however extend the float switch wires so I could mount it on the wall not on the bucket.


Yup one of the main reasons I wanted to build my own.


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## sparkafire (Mar 25, 2011)

i81two said:


> takes about 20 min to fill using 1/2" hose


 So 40min round trip?


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## gamebreaker81 (Mar 27, 2011)

Any of you guys have problems with PH constantly rising? I have to add earth juice ph down almost everyday. I am using entire Fox farm nute plan using the ebb and grow. Thanks


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 27, 2011)

Ive got a buddy thats having the same issues with ph going up during veg, but as he goes into bloom around the last 3 week it goes
down. ff in organic and inorganic not sure if it is a die off of the bennys or it is caused by the bennys, eitherway hes switching to
AN. he gets good results but mine in the same system is better and cheaper, i use a three part and 2 sups, he uses ff three part
with at least 6 different things hundreds of dollars in my mind waisted.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 28, 2011)

*Roots in the line*: Make sure the line connected to the pot is at least 18" long before the "T". Roots in the line are not a problem as long as they do not get to the T. That will clog the other plants along the line.

*Expansion Packs*: More than 48 pots is difficult to operate properly. The pot system fills and drains too slow, plus the reservior level would drop too fast. When the plants are in full growth mode they'll drink 20 gallons (48 plants) a day so 55 gallons just isn't enough.

8-10 pots in a 5'x10' area under 2k lights is PERFECT. Veg for 2-3 weeks and you'll get 3-3½ lbs yield (GH or AN nutes).


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2011)

smokingrubber said:


> *Roots in the line*: Make sure the line connected to the pot is at least 18" long before the "T". Roots in the line are not a problem as long as they do not get to the T. That will clog the other plants along the line.
> 
> *Expansion Packs*: More than 48 pots is difficult to operate properly. The pot system fills and drains too slow, plus the reservior level would drop too fast. When the plants are in full growth mode they'll drink 20 gallons (48 plants) a day so 55 gallons just isn't enough.
> 
> 8-10 pots in a 5'x10' area under 2k lights is PERFECT. Veg for 2-3 weeks and you'll get 3-3½ lbs yield (GH or AN nutes).


I had 29 and in the last 4 weeks they were taking 30 gals a day, so your right! I wouldnt go over 30 with a 55gal res


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## gamebreaker81 (Mar 28, 2011)

Hellraizer i spent a fortune on the FF nutes LOL, 9 different prods total in the gallon size.. I am gonna switch to GH next run.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2011)

gamebreaker81 said:


> Hellraizer i spent a fortune on the FF nutes LOL, 9 different prods total in the gallon size.. I am gonna switch to GH next run.


sounds like a smart plan!!


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## horsepower850 (Mar 28, 2011)

researchkitty said:


>


I think your profile picture is amazing!


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 30, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I had 29 and in the last 4 weeks they were taking 30 gals a day, so your right! I wouldnt go over 30 with a 55gal res


30 gallons a day for 29 plants? That is crazy. I MAYBE use 5 gal/day with 16 plants, and they are all over 3' tall. How many times per day are you flooding them? Do you change how many times throughout the course of 12/12?


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## smokingrubber (Mar 30, 2011)

The amount they drink depends a lot on the maturity. Plants that are 4-6 weeks into flower will consume A LOT of water. If they are not drinking a lot, you have problems coming. The question wasn't for me, but I water every 3 hours during light's ON.


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## MoJobud (Mar 30, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I had 29 and in the last 4 weeks they were taking 30 gals a day, so your right! I wouldnt go over 30 with a 55gal res


DAMN, how big did you grow them? Did you set your watering for 15 min or 30 at a time?


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 30, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> 30 gallons a day for 29 plants? That is crazy. I MAYBE use 5 gal/day with 16 plants, and they are all over 3' tall. How many times per day are you flooding them? Do you change how many times throughout the course of 12/12?


x3 three floods a day and they were 3 foot tall also! one thing I noticed was when I did my add back every day! I never had to add nutes. so 1300ppm
at 55gal in one day -30 gals the ppm would go up to 1600 then id add back water to 55gal and i would be at 1300 again. after 10 to 14 days I would do 
a res dump. my next run Im shooting for 1000ppm tops cus I think I didnt need to go that high.


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## Ferredoxin (Mar 31, 2011)

I was flooding 4x per day, and topping out at 1550 ppm (3.0 EC). I wasnt seeing any symptoms of nute burn, but I dont think the buds are as dense as they could be on day 43. For the 7th week, I am running GH aggressive bloom schedule @ 1/2 strength plus Floralicious and 2 sachets of shooting powder. I also knocked the flooding back to 3x per day about a week ago. Once day 40 hit, the branches started to droop big time. Im hoping to really see the weight gain in the next 7 days.

I will be vegging less next run(just over a month this run), especially considering I am switching up strains to Cherry Kush which can stretch like a mofo. Im thinking no longer than 2 weeks before I flip unless they recover slowly from transplanting.


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## hempdaddy (Mar 31, 2011)

i went shopping for ebb n gro today, local store didn't have it in stock they'd have to special order it. they said they have cap's new ebb monster in stock, i ended up going home without buying either. so now i'm reconsidering my decision to get the ebb n gro. apprently the new ebb monster has an improved controller module to go along with bigger buckets, so i guess cap's r&d had had found this thread and heard from us. looking forward to see how the new system works.

besides those upside down nursery saucers which doesn't seem to work well, is there anyway to completely drain out the ebb n gro's buckets? i don't not need a SWC system. anything water culture is dirty. the nute solution becomes stagnant in the buckets i got all sorts of problems. when u see leaves wilt you know what it is. when nute solution is completely drained and centralized into the reservior i could then manipulate it however i want oxygenize it heat it chill it make it basic make it acidic. hope CAP fixed it on the new ebb monster.


ps hellraizer30 your canopy is nice n thick looks good


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## smokingrubber (Mar 31, 2011)

5 Gal buckets on the EBB MONSTER, Holy Cow! The down side is, less plants and WAY more water and nutes. I'm in a tent, so I can't allow them to get too tall anyway. Seems to me thet 5 gallon buckets is a little too boo-koo. I'd really love to see some 3 gallon buckets!

Hempdaddy, you have to use FloraKleen every 30 days. Fix that problem of yours right up!


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## hempdaddy (Mar 31, 2011)

hi smokinggrubber.
i have clearex (which is bs it's just water with some sugar/dextrose) and hygrozym, and i can fix any issues that arise should it be fusarium pythium algae root rot; but that's besides my point. years ago i switched to a strategy that emphasizes the importance of problem prevention, instead of trying to fix problems when they hit, it has worked really well for me. with good management and a bit of maintenance, i do less work overall and get better results at the end. minimizing adverse conditions also give me peace of mind and the freedom to go on my daily life and not attending to my plants all the time. and it's the reason i insist on not having any nute solution in the buckets not absorbed by the growth medium.
moreover, i'm mixing organic nutes with synthetic nutes much more often than i used to, and organics further complicates the rootzone environment. if i leave stagant solution in each bucket it think the smell alone will give me huge headaches.
right now i'm trying to find a dealer that carries sunlight supplies' titan controls flo n gro. hopefully it doesn't suffer from the same issues as cap ebb n gro


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## smokingrubber (Mar 31, 2011)

Mixing organics and non-organics can be a problem just because there are things you can't add to kill bs. You already know that. I would reconsider the organics and their pros n cons.

The new ebb n gro buckets (im not talking about the 5 gal Monster buckets) raise the floor above the hose line. There is a small recess in the bottom for the hose nipple. This eliminates 90% of the standing water that would accumulate in the old version buckets.


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## hempdaddy (Mar 31, 2011)

thanks for the info smokingrubber
i just wish the guys running local hydro stores know as much as you do =P
highly doubt they know anything about cap's ebb n gro design revisions
if i go in there asking them for the new buckets they gonna look all clueless
hydro store people needs to be as anally retentive as grandmaster growers!

i've never used this kind of system before and i don't know which fittings i'm gonna need, otherwise i'd just purchase separate parts like the ebb monster's bigger controller module and then hook it all up to my current reservior. probably best thing for me to do right now is to go out and get the ebb n gro system with the new buckets, play around with it, then i can switch out parts and customize it to my specific needs


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## stillgamble (Mar 31, 2011)

hempdaddy said:


> i have the flo n gro system for 2 weeks now and so far so good. but to answer ur question the buckets do have an inch or so of standing water which im not worried about yet cause i put clones in there but i also heard that its ok cause the plants will seek for the water and feed off it while it waits for the next watering when the plants r bigger of course. i never had the cap but the flo uses a 3/4in tubes from the fill bucket to all the other buckets and 1/2in from the res to the fill bucket which from what it sounds like was a great idea. the buckets fill quick and drain a lot faster than i thought it would. i think if u go to sunlightsupplies.com they will tell u where u can order it i paid 560 out the door and felt like i took it in the rear a bit but im hoping i have the last laugh with the ease and yield


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## hempdaddy (Mar 31, 2011)

stillgamble said:


> i have the flo n gro system for 2 weeks now and so far so good. but to answer ur question the buckets do have an inch or so of standing water which im not worried about yet cause i put clones in there but i also heard that its ok cause the plants will seek for the water and feed off it while it waits for the next watering when the plants r bigger of course. i never had the cap but the flo uses a 3/4in tubes from the fill bucket to all the other buckets and 1/2in from the res to the fill bucket which from what it sounds like was a great idea. the buckets fill quick and drain a lot faster than i thought it would. i think if u go to sunlightsupplies.com they will tell u where u can order it i paid 560 out the door and felt like i took it in the rear a bit but im hoping i have the last laugh with the ease and yield


thanks to all of you early adopters for the wealth of info provided to me. i was supposed to get try this new kind of ebb and flow last year, however i'm somewhat glad i waited this long. Now that there are so many choices on the market, even vapor products like sentinel's system ;D 
More importantly, the modular nature of this new system makes it customizable, i predict in the upcoming years we'll witness more products being released. better buckets with improved feature sets that hooks right on to other systems, or perhaps digitized controller tanks with more pumping power; maybe some of you will venture into this business to sell your home made buckets, who knows what the future holds.

i would like to see something like the bottom of the flood trays, maybe a recessed waterway 1 inch deep quarter inch in width, crisscrossing the inside floor of the bucket, inflow/outflow would be right at the bottom of these waterways. then you could like, put rw in the inner bucket and hydrotons in the exterior bucket. and if you could in a way hook up the inflow to the top of the bucket, and design a controller with 2 tanks similiar to waterfarm controllers, u are potentially getting a gravity fed nft/drip system. anyways think of the possiblities.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 1, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> DAMN, how big did you grow them? Did you set your watering for 15 min or 30 at a time?


30min each flood when i cut down there was a root mass that was so large it was pushing the inner bucket a inch up from the flood 
bucket lol


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## dr.smith (Apr 2, 2011)

smokingrubber said:


> 5 Gal buckets on the EBB MONSTER, Holy Cow! The down side is, less plants and WAY more water and nutes. I'm in a tent, so I can't allow them to get too tall anyway. Seems to me thet 5 gallon buckets is a little too boo-koo. I'd really love to see some 3 gallon buckets!
> 
> Hempdaddy, you have to use FloraKleen every 30 days. Fix that problem of yours right up!


 
well smokin', i jus' put 12 2ft cocoa kush monsters into flower in 3 gal bucks, i have also put an air stone in the bottom of each buck,my ladies love their bubble baths, they will be basking in 2000w of hps,with 1000ppm of co2(that's all i could muster with the diy hook up) and im runnin' the dyna-gro line up at 1100ppm, nice and simple like,6 are in 6in net pots,and 6 in sunleave grow rock(jus to see....) i have spaced at 2ft on center,they have all been uncle ben topped,fimmed,and dutch super cropped,the mothers were all induced with ethylene in pre germ and all popped within 24hr on dec.23 winter solice with a total lunar eclipse,they sprouted on christmas morning with one 4 headed tetraploid,and one triploid,100% females out of 18 seeds! 1 mother yeilded 24 clones,which took root with no cloning solution! i have pics and data from the get,jus need to finish the deed, oh sorry,the 3 gal black buckets are at the dollar tree dollar store,cost? you quessed it ,1 dollar ea they are the perfect size for the standard ebb and gro system


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## Ferredoxin (Apr 4, 2011)

Multiple tops does not mean you have polyploidy. Tetraploidy means the plant has four sets of chromosomes per cell instead of the normal two. Unless you are dissecting your seedlings under an electron microscope, Im pretty sure you can't tell the ploidy.


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## powerplant74 (Apr 4, 2011)

smokingrubber said:


> 5 Gal buckets on the EBB MONSTER, Holy Cow! The down side is, less plants and WAY more water and nutes. I'm in a tent, so I can't allow them to get too tall anyway. Seems to me thet 5 gallon buckets is a little too boo-koo. I'd really love to see some 3 gallon buckets!
> 
> Hempdaddy, you have to use FloraKleen every 30 days. Fix that problem of yours right up!


You will use the same amount and nutes and water, the 55gallon rez can only handle 12 sites.

HempDaddy the EBB Monster Does not have the recess in the bottom, last I knew.


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## stillgamble (Apr 4, 2011)

so is an air stone in the rez a good idea or is there no need?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 4, 2011)

I run a large air pump runing x4 air stones in the res and it look like a hot tub in there.
the more air in the res the better. and your plants will thank you!


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## stillgamble (Apr 4, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I run a large air pump runing x4 air stones in the res and it look like a hot tub in there.
> the more air in the res the better. and your plants will thank you!


does in help keep ur nutes mixed and also do u see ur water temps go up when u add it?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 4, 2011)

water temps drop due to water movment and yes it help keep nutes mixed!


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## Ferredoxin (Apr 4, 2011)

WHOOPS....I forgot to plug in my reservoir pump after a cleaning/refill session yesterday. The plants (in hydroton) will end up going 28 hours without a flood, and I am happy to report that they still look ok. They are on day 48 of 12/12. Just FYI. 

I think I am going to turn the water off the day before I cut down, and give them another 24 hours of dryness. I want to get that abscisic acid crankin for every last ounce of production and maturity!


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## stillgamble (Apr 4, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> water temps drop due to water movment and yes it help keep nutes mixed!


sweet thx. so from what i read it looks like i need an air stone and some h2o2. should i use h2o2 all the time? im not using the cap system im using the flo n gro system which has 4 gal square buckets with 3 gal 360&#730; mesh aeration inserts and rockwool cubes (i belive they r half inch). and how much h2o2 should i add the the rez? thx for the help


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 5, 2011)

yes add 29% h202 every three days at 7 to 10ML per gal

hey how do you like the titan flow n grow, is it good quality? and how the timer?


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## med4u (Apr 5, 2011)

hey hellraizer, are you still runnin bleach? i ended up runnin it at 5m/gal and it really work good for killin some root slime battle i had thx


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 5, 2011)

med4u said:


> hey hellraizer, are you still runnin bleach? i ended up runnin it at 5m/gal and it really work good for killin some root slime battle i had thx


yep im using bleach and H202

is that 5ml? a gal


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## axl (Apr 6, 2011)

wont that much h202 harm the plants, a while back i tried using some, way less than that, and they suffered nute burn. I am not telling you, just asking, i would like to use it but have been affraid ever since


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## stillgamble (Apr 6, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> yes add 29% h202 every three days at 7 to 10ML per gal
> 
> hey how do you like the titan flow n grow, is it good quality? and how the timer?


its my 1st grow in hydro and so far its been great knock on wood lol. no leaks and the timer has worked like a charm, i guess titan makes pretty good timers from what others have said. when i bought the flo n gro the guy at the store has the cap ebb n gro and was goin to get the flo n gro as he likes everything that they changed on it with the bigger buckets and the 360 mesh inserts. you can youtube flo n gro and they show u how to put it together but i havent seen any grows with it, i might be the 1st idiot to buy it lol( i hope not)


----------



## shnkrmn (Apr 7, 2011)

Well, if you knock it out of the park on your first grow with it, that would make you one smart idiot. 

I'm hanging up my ebb and gro for good. I was going to flower my current mothers in it, but I just can't get psyched for the tubes and buckets everywhere. I've been much more productive with smaller plants and flood tables. The maintenance is way, way less too. Not dissing it, there are some folks who can really make it work. I guess I'm just not in to big plants anymore. I'm pissed at how big my mothers got using the CAP inner buckets on a flood table. lol. I'm going to take another big sweep of cuttings from them and then trash them.


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## med4u (Apr 7, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> yep im using bleach and H202
> 
> is that 5ml? a gal


yea,8 drops worked out to almost 5ml ! whoa! a typo could really fuck someone up with bleach,no? so it wiped out every thing in the root zone,then i flushed,saved 17 out of 24 clones,now i run it with 20ml/gal h2o2 3%, i read that when h2o2 combines with boron in the nutes,it becomes,borox,which is of coarse, bleach. i am also using 3gal buckets,6in net pots, with airstones in the bottom,as well as in the res, they seem to bush out quit well,here's one at 3 weeks,under cfl's


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 7, 2011)

looks like a beast lol


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## MoJobud (Apr 7, 2011)

So I am in the process of making my own buckets using a 3.5 Gal from uline since I fear the 2 Gal just won't cut it for a 4-5ft plant. I vegged a bit too long and too wide LOL. I originally only planned on having 16 plants in a 4x4 with 1x1000W but now moving them to a 4x8 with 2x1000w to handle the size and spread.

Any pointers for those that made their own buckets and connectors?


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## med4u (Apr 7, 2011)

you may want to try 3/4 tubing,fill/drain faster


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 7, 2011)

I think 2 gal would be fine for a 4footer your just going to have to up the flood cycle, but a 3.5 would be better. where you geting those 3.5?


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## ATOM (Apr 7, 2011)

I have a broken float, who would I contact to buy a replacement float for the CAP Ebb n Gro*? I looked online but couldn't find anywhere that sold a similar piece or anyone to contact to find a part #, thanks!
*


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## med4u (Apr 7, 2011)

try stealth hydro,they have most of the parts,or try cap


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 7, 2011)

yah i would call cap about a replacment float


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## powerplant74 (Apr 8, 2011)

Call James at C.A.P he will get it str8.


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## stillgamble (Apr 9, 2011)

has anyone ever used rockwool grow cubes in this system? if so how many times a day do u flood when they r in the 1st few weeks of veg? im flooding twice a day right now and its seems like the bottom 4 in or so is always wet. any info would be great


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2011)

stillgamble said:


> has anyone ever used rockwool grow cubes in this system? if so how many times a day do u flood when they r in the 1st few weeks of veg? im flooding twice a day right now and its seems like the bottom 4 in or so is always wet. any info would be great


im going to do a run in a month with growdan cubes I call them crutons lol just sick of cleaning rock


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## stillgamble (Apr 9, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> im going to do a run in a month with growdan cubes I call them crutons lol just sick of cleaning rock


thats what im using right now in my flo n gro. ill keep u posted how it goes if u want. i started with clones in the system cause i had two other strains but one getts to tall to keep them even but i plan to flip them to 12/12 in a week or so. oh i got some airstones running as of today will see how that goes next im goin to get some h2o2


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2011)

how often are you flooding? I flood x3 a day each flood is 30min. 
my floods dont change for veg or bloom. and how much prep to
stablize ph do you have to do?


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## stillgamble (Apr 10, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> how often are you flooding? I flood x3 a day each flood is 30min.
> my floods dont change for veg or bloom. and how much prep to
> stablize ph do you have to do?


i flood 2 times a day. i use tap water and after i add my nutes my ph is around 7 then i use gh ph down. i fill my rez to 45 gal. ru using rockwool or clay?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 10, 2011)

clay but ive been told that you have to soak it and adjust ph then you can use it


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## stillgamble (Apr 10, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> clay but ive been told that you have to soak it and adjust ph then you can use it


i guess u r suposed to soak the small cubes for a few seconds in 5.5 ph water but the bigger blocks i think its like 15 min. thats what the video said. i didnt soak mine and my ph moves from 5.8 to 6.1 after a few days


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## med4u (Apr 10, 2011)

i use the sunleave grow rocks,their fired shale,they only need to be rinsed once,and are ph neutral,i put it in 6in nets,i cut a 6in hole in the 3gal bucket lid,and the roots just hang down from the bottom of the nets,(unrestricted for growth) and for an oxygen kicker i put a small airstone at the bottom of each bucket in the water that remains in the bucket,as well as two large airstones in the res, they get a bubble flood 4 times a cycle,they love it! the rocks are very easy to reuse,a quick rinse in the net pot and their ready to go again,i use less rock,less cleaning,less weight,kind of a dwc/ebb and gro/bubble bucket (excuse the quality of pics,but it will give ya the idea)
and folgers coffee lids fit over the pots perfect lol


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## i81two (Apr 10, 2011)

stillgamble said:


> has anyone ever used rockwool grow cubes in this system? if so how many times a day do u flood when they r in the 1st few weeks of veg? im flooding twice a day right now and its seems like the bottom 4 in or so is always wet. any info would be great


Hellraiser should remember the heated debate with kitty about this. 

I use the 6x6 rw cubes and it works great. Clones to a rw starter cube and then into the 6x6 for a couple week veg in a tray then they are set into bucket. Way easier then hydroton. Just as cheap and alot less labor. Specially when your runnin 80 to a setup.

I flood for 15 min 1 hour after lights on and 3 hours before lights off. I am going to experiment with 1 flood a day at high noon and see how that does.

One thing i would recomend is a chiller for ur rez.

Peace


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## med4u (Apr 10, 2011)

howdy u812,are there some bennys to running less flood cycles,jus wonderin?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 10, 2011)

i81two said:


> Hellraiser should remember the heated debate with kitty about this.
> 
> I use the 6x6 rw cubes and it works great. Clones to a rw starter cube and then into the 6x6 for a couple week veg in a tray then they are set into bucket. Way easier then hydroton. Just as cheap and alot less labor. Specially when your runnin 80 to a setup.
> 
> ...


lol I remember a bunch of heated debates with kitty guess the kitty got ran over!


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## i81two (Apr 10, 2011)

Its a water content thing. If there is enough moisture for the roots then why water so much. It seems as there is not as much evaporation in the buckets compared to a tray.

Grodan has a multi meter that checks the wc the ec and the ph from inside the rw. Im still trying to get more info and pricing on it.

I read a great article on some forum (i think i saved it in favorites. Ill find and post) but if i remember corectly it was all about how the ph is a lot higher in the rw, so a lower ph than usual should be kept in the rez, and also a lower ph in the pre soak water.

Here is the link to the meter http://www.grodan.com/solutions/water+content+meter/wcm-+control

Cannot find the article about ph and rw but i have been keeping my ph lower than usual and it seems as though the plants are greener.


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## stillgamble (Apr 10, 2011)

med4u how many grows have u used the sunleave grow rocks? i got a sample of it when i bought my flo n gro system it also came with some kind of a bag that holds the rock in the bucket im guessing to keep the small chuncks out of the pumps.


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## stillgamble (Apr 10, 2011)

i81two said:


> Hellraiser should remember the heated debate with kitty about this.
> 
> I use the 6x6 rw cubes and it works great. Clones to a rw starter cube and then into the 6x6 for a couple week veg in a tray then they are set into bucket. Way easier then hydroton. Just as cheap and alot less labor. Specially when your runnin 80 to a setup.
> 
> ...


i went with rockwool for the same reasons of washing the clay and it seems like a lot of work to prep them. ill pre soak my 6 in rockwool for 15 min in 5.5 ph. my buckets r a lilttle bigger than the cap system so next time im goin to use the small grow cubes or curtons as hellraizer called them on the bottom and the 6 in on top and see how that goes


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## i81two (Apr 10, 2011)

Here is a cool video of a guy killing it with the rw grow cubes.

You must sign in to youtube to watch but im tellin u its worth it. I will try this application someday soon.

Its called "Small plants, Big Buds". He has 32 vids and every one is killer. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D3Sa1IIgmtqY%26feature%3Dmfu_in_order%26list%3DUL


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## med4u (Apr 10, 2011)

stillgamble said:


> med4u how many grows have u used the sunleave grow rocks? i got a sample of it when i bought my flo n gro system it also came with some kind of a bag that holds the rock in the bucket im guessing to keep the small chuncks out of the pumps.


i have used the same rock for 3 different grows,the ones i use are 3/4in and have had no problems with them falling through the net pots as the slits are very narrow,not familiar with the bags,something new,or just for sample maybe,i have read the main concern with hydroton is that after a few use's they tend to absorb pathogens since they are porous,as it was explained,after a few use's break one of them open and you can see what has been absorbed,even after rinsing

i also tried the stg,dont bother its crap


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## i81two (Apr 10, 2011)

I found that forum.

It has alot to do with sog but it has a lot of rw info. It has a lot of info period. With a table of contents at the top.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?postid=2321414#post2321414


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## i81two (Apr 10, 2011)

Here is another good rw read

http://www.growdiary.com/marijuanacultivation/rockwool.html


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 10, 2011)

thanks i81two lots of good info +rep to you sir.

he uses RW a mabito what is that?


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## i81two (Apr 10, 2011)

Mabito ?

Where is this word used?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 10, 2011)

in those you tube clips show he mixes RW with mobito for better drainage. and also he reuses all his medium

my bad its mopito whatever that is


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## stillgamble (Apr 10, 2011)

i81two said:


> Hellraiser should remember the heated debate with kitty about this.
> 
> I use the 6x6 rw cubes and it works great. Clones to a rw starter cube and then into the 6x6 for a couple week veg in a tray then they are set into bucket. Way easier then hydroton. Just as cheap and alot less labor. Specially when your runnin 80 to a setup.
> 
> ...


today i checked my buckets and 4 hrs after they were flooded there is a lot of water in the cubes and i thought the top was dry and after checking that they had a bit of water in them to so as of tomorrow im goin to flood once a day and see what happens


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 11, 2011)

once sounds right I took a 6in bucket with crutons in it a a test a watered it and checked it 8 hours later
and it was still real wet! flooding once a day and not having to wash rock is all good to me. cant wait to
say goodbye rock!


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## i81two (Apr 11, 2011)

You might even be able to flood every other day.


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## stillgamble (Apr 11, 2011)

i81two said:


> You might even be able to flood every other day.


i was thinkin the same thing they hold more water then i thought and the roots r not to crazy yet


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## MoJobud (Apr 11, 2011)

I am not an expert but wasn't the whole point of using a medium like hydroton was to help direct oxygen to the roots as the water pumps back out? Yes I hate hydroton but I also hate how much water rock wool holds.


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## i81two (Apr 12, 2011)

The same holds true for rw.

As the water drains it pulls oxygen down thru the cube. As long as u dont water to much. Witch is easy to do.


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## Feelinit (Apr 12, 2011)

I have the greentrees model multiflow bucket system. I have 4 girls under 1000hps, they are 4 days into flower, and my roots have completely filled the outer bucket. I flipped them at 18".

They are doing awesome, should I worry about them being rootbound already?

I was thinking of raising them up an inch or so with PVC. 

I have adjustable float valve, so I can raise the flood level too. Should I mess with it or not?

Thx


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 12, 2011)

if your plants look good and the roots are doing good then I wouldnt mess with it.
on my system the roots fill the viod fast but the only thing I do is remove roots 
around the drain hole.


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## Feelinit (Apr 12, 2011)

Thx for the reply, I have a long way to go, and roots are HUGE.


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## Devlove (Apr 12, 2011)

Anyone experience problems with their roots sitting in water since the system doesn't drain the buckets completely. I have some on 2x4s and that helps but it's hard to move them around.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 12, 2011)

View attachment 1547871I raise my bucket 2in and it seems to help


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## Feelinit (Apr 12, 2011)

Ya I raised mine too. There is water in there but no probs they seem to love it!


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## stillgamble (Apr 16, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> once sounds right I took a 6in bucket with crutons in it a a test a watered it and checked it 8 hours later
> and it was still real wet! flooding once a day and not having to wash rock is all good to me. cant wait to
> say goodbye rock!


so i have been flooding once a day and they seem to love it, i put in 2 6inch air stones last week in the rez and also added h2o2 29% at 3 ml per gallon and things look great. once i flip them to flower i might flood twice but im goin to keep an eye on how much they drink. here r a few pics 9 days ago








and these were takin yesterday


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## med4u (Apr 16, 2011)

lookin good still,love the square bucks!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 16, 2011)

I? like it alot


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## afrothund3r (Apr 18, 2011)

Has anyone put an airstone in each bucket?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 18, 2011)

afrothund3r said:


> Has anyone put an airstone in each bucket?


not tryed that, but I think its not needed! if you have good air going in the res your ok! the amount of positive air suction
from the drain cycle pull air into the medium. plus a air stone or 2 in the res and your more than good. I run x4 air stone in
my res, I like over kill.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 18, 2011)

View attachment 1557490View attachment 1557488View attachment 1557486View attachment 1557484here some mods to get rid of the 1/2 hose and convert to 5/8 hose backed
with 3/4 pvc flood time is way faster and the drain cycle is alot better. to connect the 3/4 to the 5/8 a presure fitting was use, there made by rain drip. and the pvc
and peaces were got at lowes.


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## med4u (Apr 18, 2011)

afrothund3r said:


> Has anyone put an airstone in each bucket?


yea,afro i run a small stone in each buck,it works a treat,a bit like a dwc/eandg i havnt met a lady yet, that doesn't like a bubble bath(cheap insurance if a pump goes out)


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## powerplant74 (Apr 18, 2011)

med4u said:


> yea,afro i run a small stone in each buck,it works a treat,a bit like a dwc/eandb i havnt met a lady yet, that doesn't like a bubble bath(cheap insurance if a pump goes out)


Med4u are u bubbling 24/7 or only in the fill cycle?

Loves the crutons in ebb n flo or gro,the plants love them! On the other hand I hate washing rocs Shits a real pain in the ass


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 18, 2011)

my next run going to be with crutons no more rock Im done with that shit lol


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## med4u (Apr 18, 2011)

powerplant74 said:


> Med4u are u bubbling 24/7 or only in the fill cycle?
> 
> Loves the crutons in ebb n flo or gro,the plants love them! On the other hand I hate washing rocs Shits a real pain in the ass


yep24/7,they love it!


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## shnkrmn (Apr 19, 2011)

With the croutons, do you get enough support to keep your plants upright when they get large? Or do you have to stake them? Or have we found that out yet? ;D


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 19, 2011)

I have a friend that does passive hydro and uses crutons and his get 4ft. tall and only stakes the branches, I just 
allways blew the thought off about using in the ebb style system, but after having to wash rock! im not now.


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## powerplant74 (Apr 20, 2011)

med4u said:


> yep24/7,they love it!View attachment 1557662


Cool, gonna try in my Ebb Monster.

Im with you hellraizer lol.


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## Ferredoxin (Apr 20, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> View attachment 1557490View attachment 1557488View attachment 1557486View attachment 1557484here some mods to get rid of the 1/2 hose and convert to 5/8 hose backed
> with 3/4 pvc flood time is way faster and the drain cycle is alot better. to connect the 3/4 to the 5/8 a presure fitting was use, there made by rain drip. and the pvc
> and peaces were got at lowes.


That shit is legit. Super clean. I think I might do something like this. Is yours the setup with inline filters on the drain/fill hoses also? More pics!!!

About those crutons....they make me nervous with the amount of water they hold. I can see how they might work in the Flo n Gro above, because those interior pots are netted and drain much better. With the Ebb n Gro, we only have holes at the bottom, and the nice little flaw with this system about not fully draining could possibly retain too much moisture in the crutons.

Does that Flo and Gro have the same problem with poor draining buckets?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 20, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> That shit is legit. Super clean. I think I might do something like this. Is yours the setup with inline filters on the drain/fill hoses also? More pics!!!
> 
> About those crutons....they make me nervous with the amount of water they hold. I can see how they might work in the Flo n Gro above, because those interior pots are netted and drain much better. With the Ebb n Gro, we only have holes at the bottom, and the nice little flaw with this system about not fully draining could possibly retain too much moisture in the crutons.
> 
> Does that Flo and Gro have the same problem with poor draining buckets?


yes mine is the one with inline filters and as for the bucket having holes on the bottom I drilled x2 rows of holes in the sides of the bucket.
helps alot with drain and flooding.


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## stillgamble (Apr 20, 2011)

Does that Flo and Gro have the same problem with poor draining buckets?[/QUOTE]

yea they have about an ich or so of water at the bottom. i just added water saucers under the bucket to help with the draining and now there is prob a 1/4 inch or so. in this system they have liner bags that fit into the bucket and u can run coco or clay without having to worry about ur pumps getting cloged


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## i81two (Apr 21, 2011)

the great thing about the grow cubes is you can mix other medium with it. 

If u dont like the water retention add some hydroton or simaliar.


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## Ferredoxin (Apr 21, 2011)

i81two said:


> the great thing about the grow cubes is you can mix other medium with it.
> 
> If u dont like the water retention add some hydroton or simaliar.


Good point.

I think I am going to drill some holes in my interior buckets this weekend. I love this thread.

Hellraizer, how much are you pulling per light?


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## Ferredoxin (Apr 21, 2011)

Has anyone tried the Dyna-Gro grow rocks in their system? 

http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website pdf Files/Dyna-Rok II Sheet 2002.pdf


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 21, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Good point.
> 
> I think I am going to drill some holes in my interior buckets this weekend. I love this thread.
> 
> Hellraizer, how much are you pulling per light?


never have done the math, but I have done a average yield is 2 1/2 oz per bucket.


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## stillgamble (Apr 22, 2011)

ive noticed my temp in the rez has gone up so i was thinkin of running my air stones an hour before the flood and a hour after the flood to try to keep my water temp down. and maybe have it run an hour during lights out to keep the nutes mixed. is this a dumb idea?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2011)

mine went from 68 to 70 and Im thinking a res chiller is in order  not to happy about it!! but ive tryed the air and no luck.


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## stillgamble (Apr 22, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> mine went from 68 to 70 and Im thinking a res chiller is in order  not to happy about it!! but ive tryed the air and no luck.


mine is closer to 80 so i deff need a chiller. ive been adding frozen water bottles but that brings it down to 74ish and now im fighting clear snot on my roots with little luck so far. any suggestions? im running 29% h2o2 at 3 ml per gallon but havent noticed any diff to the roots and i think a lot of it is my rez temps r way to high


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## med4u (Apr 22, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> mine went from 68 to 70 and Im thinking a res chiller is in order  not to happy about it!! but ive tryed the air and no luck.


hey hell,jus curious,what temp you shootin for? is she climbing on ya?and do you use a 55gal drum?


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## i81two (Apr 22, 2011)

I run a 1/2 hp chiller that is a closed loop with 25' of 1/2" copper coil in 2 100 gallon rez's. Keeps my temps at 67.

My 40 and 70 gallon rez's i use 1/10 hp for each. Temps at 67.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2011)

stillgamble said:


> mine is closer to 80 so i deff need a chiller. ive been adding frozen water bottles but that brings it down to 74ish and now im fighting clear snot on my roots with little luck so far. any suggestions? im running 29% h2o2 at 3 ml per gallon but havent noticed any diff to the roots and i think a lot of it is my rez temps r way to high


well 3ML is low up it to 7 to 10ML and watch if the slime starts turing brown due to the 80F water you might need to start using bleach.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2011)

med4u said:


> hey hell,jus curious,what temp you shootin for? is she climbing on ya?and do you use a 55gal drum?


going into summer here and its 70 right now but I fear its going to get worse during the day I saw 72. Like 68F and my area doesnt
get any hotter than 85 at the high in the summer so a chiller might work well.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2011)

i81two said:


> I run a 1/2 hp chiller that is a closed loop with 25' of 1/2" copper coil in 2 100 gallon rez's. Keeps my temps at 67.
> 
> My 40 and 70 gallon rez's i use 1/10 hp for each. Temps at 67.


what you ambient temp outside the res? and how much electric cost does a 1/2 on use?


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## stillgamble (Apr 22, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> well 3ML is low up it to 7 to 10ML and watch if the slime starts turing brown due to the 80F water you might need to start using bleach.


i was thinkin of adding more but the guy at the store said to be carefull cause it could burn the plant. so i was just adding what it said on the back of the bottle. the light s come back on in a few hours so im goin to check the roots and its been 3 days since the last rez change so ill add more h2o2 also. im still not sure about adding bleach as i have never seen any pics of before and after using it for the prob that im having but im also gettin to the point that i might go that way if they dont start lookin better


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2011)

stillgamble said:


> i was thinkin of adding more but the guy at the store said to be carefull cause it could burn the plant. so i was just adding what it said on the back of the bottle. the light s come back on in a few hours so im goin to check the roots and its been 3 days since the last rez change so ill add more h2o2 also. im still not sure about adding bleach as i have never seen any pics of before and after using it for the prob that im having but im also gettin to the point that i might go that way if they dont start lookin better


there alot of info in AL BE FUCT threads on using H202 at the levels I gave you. H202 at up to 25ML per gal aint going to burn nothing! ive gone that high
with no il affects! as fo bleach theres a thread by a member cant think of his name il search he a bleach gooroo so il find in and post in a bit.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2011)

k here it is 

bleach instead of H202....by choempi
hope this clears up any confusion


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## i81two (Apr 22, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> what you ambient temp outside the res? and how much electric cost does a 1/2 on use?


75 amb temp at the 40's and 100 gallon rez's and 85 at the 70's.

I dont know about the cost. Doesnt matter much when u compare the loss of one crop.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2011)

i81two said:


> 75 amb temp at the 40's and 100 gallon rez's and 85 at the 70's.
> 
> I dont know about the cost. Doesnt matter much when u compare the loss of one crop.


your 100% right about that! so a 1/2 hp chiller and a copper coil on a closed loop
and that one chiller per res?


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## i81two (Apr 22, 2011)

Yes the 1/2 has a 5/8" hose out from a 20 gallon fresh water rez thru the chiller thru a 5/8 hose that splits to two seperate 100 g rez's that each run thru a 25' coil in the rez's then out and back to one 3/4" hse back to the clean water rez


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2011)

i81two said:


> Yes the 1/2 has a 5/8" hose out from a 20 gallon fresh water rez thru the chiller thru a 5/8 hose that splits to two seperate 100 g rez's that each run thru a 25' coil in the rez's then out and back to one 3/4" hse back to the clean water rez


awsome! so one chiller for x2 res I like it, one last Q on the chillers what brand you use?


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## stillgamble (Apr 23, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> there alot of info in AL BE FUCT threads on using H202 at the levels I gave you. H202 at up to 25ML per gal aint going to burn nothing! ive gone that high
> with no il affects! as fo bleach theres a thread by a member cant think of his name il search he a bleach gooroo so il find in and post in a bit.


i added more than normal h2o2 to my rez tonight so ill watch the plants and the slime and see what happens and if they look like they can handle more all keep bumping it up a bit. the plants r still lookin good and r still shooting more leaves i just hope that this slime wont kill and or effect the plants as they flower. i only have the air stones on an hour before flood and running for a hour after flood and also adding frozen water bottles and my temps droped to 73 but my room is not gettin as hot now that im running the lights at night now so i hope this will help with the water temps also


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## i81two (Apr 23, 2011)

Active Aqua.

Yes 1 for 2 rez's. I help the chiller work less (not that it really needs it) by changing out old 2 1/2 gallon nute jugs with frozen water everyday. I had the freezer to use and said wtf i might as well help the chillers life a little.

I keep the chiller temp set at 64 to keep the rez's at 68.


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## AKronic (Apr 23, 2011)

Hello again, hope im not high jacking the thread but i have some questions about building my own Ebb and Grow system. i really like the idea of the CAP system but im not gonna pay almost 600bucks. so i have found all the parts. i am gonna get the controller from Aquahub.......and i have two large barrels for my rez and water storage. and a 18gal tub that is the same height of a 5gal bucket. the only reason i dont just use HD buckets is the new CAP ones have a 9degree slope inside so when the drain cycle ends there should be no standing water. so i was debating on just buying the 5gal buckets because they have a slope inside and they come with holes large enough to run 3/4" drain lines where as the 2gal only utilize 1/2". also because ive heard about ppl haveing to put a 1-2" piece of pvc in the bottom the keep the inner bucket off the bottom so i decided i would try to use those 10" net pots that are made to act as a bucket lid. so then if i went w/ the larger buckets i would have more room for roots to grow if they need w/o them creeping into the drain hole like ive heard can happen. also the 3/4" line allows for faster fill and drain times. so what do you guys think does it make any sense to use the monster outer buckets or am i just thinking this over too much and should i just go w/ the 2gal 6pot expansion and deal w/ the 1/2" lines and smaller size.....i dont plan on goin over 12 in the begining. i will be using a Raptor hood w/ 1000w Digilux and lumatek ballast on a rail w/ 6' ext. also should i go w/ the 6rpm or the 10rpm motor? faster would mean i can put the light closer correct? thanks for the feedback in advance guys


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 23, 2011)

AKronic said:


> Hello again, hope im not high jacking the thread but i have some questions about building my own Ebb and Grow system. i really like the idea of the CAP system but im not gonna pay almost 600bucks. so i have found all the parts. i am gonna get the controller from Aquahub.......and i have two large barrels for my rez and water storage. and a 18gal tub that is the same height of a 5gal bucket. the only reason i dont just use HD buckets is the new CAP ones have a 9degree slope inside so when the drain cycle ends there should be no standing water. so i was debating on just buying the 5gal buckets because they have a slope inside and they come with holes large enough to run 3/4" drain lines where as the 2gal only utilize 1/2". also because ive heard about ppl haveing to put a 1-2" piece of pvc in the bottom the keep the inner bucket off the bottom so i decided i would try to use those 10" net pots that are made to act as a bucket lid. so then if i went w/ the larger buckets i would have more room for roots to grow if they need w/o them creeping into the drain hole like ive heard can happen. also the 3/4" line allows for faster fill and drain times. so what do you guys think does it make any sense to use the monster outer buckets or am i just thinking this over too much and should i just go w/ the 2gal 6pot expansion and deal w/ the 1/2" lines and smaller size.....i dont plan on goin over 12 in the begining. i will be using a Raptor hood w/ 1000w Digilux and lumatek ballast on a rail w/ 6' ext. also should i go w/ the 6rpm or the 10rpm motor? faster would mean i can put the light closer correct? thanks for the feedback in advance guys


there is no need to get the 5 gal unless your going to grow monster trees! plus 12 is all you could flood with 55gal. one thing you should 
shop around cus I got my ebb for 480$ dont know about 600$


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## stillgamble (Apr 23, 2011)

so im goin to flood for 45 min instead of the normal 15 min. im hopin the extra time the roots r in the water will help fight off the slime as i added more h2o2, or am i doin more harm then good by keeping the roots submerged for that long?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 24, 2011)

45 min might be to much time you could see signs of over watering, 30min is what I like to flood 3 times a day


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## Ferredoxin (Apr 24, 2011)

So I think I am causing myself grief by transplanting my cuttings as bare root plants into this system. This is my second run with the Ebb and Gro, and both times my plants just sit there for the first week and look like shit. I clone in an aerocloner (with no media), and then just bury the roots in hydroton in the ebb buckets once the roots are 6" long or so. It has been 8 days since transplanting, and only 2-3 pots out of 24 have any type of roots coming out the bottom of the pot. The clones are still somewhat green, but the leaves are fairly droopy. Maybe I just need to find a better flood schedule? I am vegging for 18 hrs/day, and I am flooding 3x during the light cycle (30 mins after lights on, and 6 hr intervals until lights off). Running GH nutes @ ~180ppm (tap water comes out at 220ppm) plus some Roots Excelurator, Floralicious Plus, and Pro-Tekt at low rates (the PPM meter reads 420 right now...heheh). I feel like the clones are just stressin from such a huge change in environment from aero to dog food.

Any ideas or suggestions before I shitcan the aerocloner and go back to rockwool cubes?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 24, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> So I think I am causing myself grief by transplanting my cuttings as bare root plants into this system. This is my second run with the Ebb and Gro, and both times my plants just sit there for the first week and look like shit. I clone in an aerocloner (with no media), and then just bury the roots in hydroton in the ebb buckets once the roots are 6" long or so. It has been 8 days since transplanting, and only 2-3 pots out of 24 have any type of roots coming out the bottom of the pot. The clones are still somewhat green, but the leaves are fairly droopy. Maybe I just need to find a better flood schedule? I am vegging for 18 hrs/day, and I am flooding 3x during the light cycle (30 mins after lights on, and 6 hr intervals until lights off). Running GH nutes @ ~180ppm (tap water comes out at 220ppm) plus some Roots Excelurator, Floralicious Plus, and Pro-Tekt at low rates (the PPM meter reads 420 right now...heheh).
> 
> Any ideas or suggestions before I shitcan the aerocloner and go back to rockwool cubes?


I feel your pain bro! my buddys and mine do the same shit. why im thinking of converting from aero to a small flood system, seems they do go through a week of shock!
and thats to much time for a transplant


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## powerplant74 (Apr 25, 2011)

I keep hearing there is no need for 5gals buckets wth not?

Which brings me to my next question, what's the highest yield any of you personally had using 2gallons pot?


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## i81two (Apr 25, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> So I think I am causing myself grief by transplanting my cuttings as bare root plants into this system. This is my second run with the Ebb and Gro, and both times my plants just sit there for the first week and look like shit. I clone in an aerocloner (with no media), and then just bury the roots in hydroton in the ebb buckets once the roots are 6" long or so. It has been 8 days since transplanting, and only 2-3 pots out of 24 have any type of roots coming out the bottom of the pot. The clones are still somewhat green, but the leaves are fairly droopy. Maybe I just need to find a better flood schedule? I am vegging for 18 hrs/day, and I am flooding 3x during the light cycle (30 mins after lights on, and 6 hr intervals until lights off). Running GH nutes @ ~180ppm (tap water comes out at 220ppm) plus some Roots Excelurator, Floralicious Plus, and Pro-Tekt at low rates (the PPM meter reads 420 right now...heheh). I feel like the clones are just stressin from such a huge change in environment from aero to dog food.
> 
> Any ideas or suggestions before I shitcan the aerocloner and go back to rockwool cubes?


If u go to hydroton with bare roots u should flood every 1-1.5 hours for 15 min.

Otherwise go to a plug and then into a 4x4 for a week or more of veg then into the bucket with hydroton.


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## Ferredoxin (Apr 25, 2011)

i81two said:


> If u go to hydroton with bare roots u should flood every 1-1.5 hours for 15 min.
> 
> Otherwise go to a plug and then into a 4x4 for a week or more of veg then into the bucket with hydroton.


Yeah thats what I was fearing. I have had average success with RW cubes and cloning. I have yet to lose a cutting in my aero cloner...100% success in 10+ batches so far!

I was flooding up to 5 times per lights on with the last batch while experimenting with the proper schedule, and they appeared to get worse with that many floods. It was by no means a scientific study, and they could have just hit the peak of their stress when I tried that schedule. I will flip a few more swtiches tonight and keep an eye on them.

Should I wait until all pots have roots coming out the bottom before upping the PPMs and dialing back to 3 floods per day?


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## i81two (Apr 25, 2011)

I veg uder 2 400's on a 4x8 and i run my ppm's around 800 on young ones


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 25, 2011)

powerplant74 said:


> I keep hearing there is no need for 5gals buckets wth not?
> 
> Which brings me to my next question, what's the highest yield any of you personally had using 2gallons pot?


A buddy of mine got 4zips out of a plant but that was one out of 12


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## Rock Candy (Apr 25, 2011)

Hey all i dont post much been reading this thread for a while now 

My experience with the ebb & flow, gives me 4 + and i grow some 4-7 feet tall depending on strain., 8 weeks grow 24 hours lighting watering with grow nutes every 4 hours with last weak transition mix using all General Hydroponics basic mixtures ++. 9 weeks 12 hours watering every 4 hours 30 minutes 2x and 15 minutes the last 2x before lights go out.

to solve my slow starting issue i built a bigger airponics tub with 3 inch net pots. After im rooted 10-15 days, i place the rooted plants in the 3" baskets and in the larger tub and my clones become probly 18 inches and 2 pinches, so i got 4 main branches branches when i add these clones to the grow room . it sprays every 4 hours for 15 minutes spraying


I run chillers and keep water at 67 degrees, this last run i tried the clorox bleech to help roots instead of peroxide


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## stillgamble (Apr 25, 2011)

I run chillers and keep water at 67 degrees, this last run i tried the clorox bleech to help roots instead of peroxide[/QUOTE]

did u see see any difference when u used bleach?


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## Rock Candy (Apr 25, 2011)

Well i kinda do it as a preventative, Maybe some was me , but in the beginning i thought my roots were not looking good. Maybe its just the dark color that the JuJu makes up too be? I will be looking at rootballs in a week or so , so i will see if i see any diffrence. I never really had slimy roots, maybe more brittle on the bottom of buckets. But then they have been in there for 17 weeks. Grow roots always look better for some reason, but the JuJU isnt so dark either. I dont get roots in the bottom of buckets. 

The bleach was easier to use and dindnt seem to hurt the plants i ran 1 tsp per 50 gallons evry 3 days , and adjusted on how high my reservor was


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 25, 2011)

At the end of a 13 week cycle 9 in bloom and 4 in veg my buddys had a 1in root mat. Between the outer bucket and inner
One and they were white no discolor. The root disc was so strong it was pushing up the inner bucket. Thats 15ml for 50gal
And 20 ml for 55 gal. Every 3 days! Of plain uncented bleach. If your not geting roots in the
Bottom of your bucket then your not getting good root development


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## powerplant74 (Apr 25, 2011)

1st run with the Ebb Monster, Veg for about 4-5wks. 
5plants 1x1000 Strain's Querkle, Casey Jones & Cannabis = (Chemdawg D x SpaceDawg)
Lowest yielder was 6(Querkle), highest yielder was 8(Cannabis). Trying for a 7+ avg next run.
Should be no problem along as I don't mix strain or phenos, also adding a 1000watts.


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## Rock Candy (Apr 25, 2011)

My roots push the hydroton up , but not too many roots grow outside of the buckets. my rootballs are packed, but i think i can do better, Some of the higher dosage is for if you have a problem im not exactly sure , stalks are a good 1" ++ on some.

with chillers and airriation i wouldnt suspect to have root issues, but I always strive to do better


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## Ferredoxin (Apr 26, 2011)

i81two said:


> I veg uder 2 400's on a 4x8 and i run my ppm's around 800 on young ones


Are you in those 5" net pots with hydroton?


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## i81two (Apr 26, 2011)

When i use hydroton i go from 4" net pot to 12". 

I use mostly rw cubes now exept for moms in big baskets


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## endogarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I tried to find this out reading the thread, but it's so very long, I got 35 pages in before I couldn't take it any more...

I need to figure out a good way to connect the CAP Ebb & Gro Controller module (haven't bought yet) to my 3 flood trays sitting on 5" wood blocks on the floor of my tent. I currently have the standard flood/drain bottom drain openings, and they are currently blocked off since I'm not doing flood/drain any longer. I am currently top feeding with 1/2 hosing, and using a Shop Vac to remove excess nute solution.

I want to run a 50-100gal rez that will feed my (3) 3'x3', 5"-6" deep trays, each containing (10-12) 2 gal root pots. I'm not sure how to calculate the amount of water the rez will need to hold, and whether I will have to drill side holes (and use grommets) in the flood tables instead of using the bottom ones. As I don't have the actual unit to inspect, I want to ask you guys for your thoughts on what I will need to do to keep the trays from overflowing. 

Perhaps I will need to raise or lower the trays, or set the controller bucket up on something that's the correct height, so that it's overflow float will match the overflow height of the trays.

Any thoughts appreciated.


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## i81two (Apr 27, 2011)

Just pretend that the tray is a bucket and set it up.


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## hellraizer30 (May 1, 2011)

Anybody have new progress with there ebb?


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## med4u (May 1, 2011)

still bangin' away like a well oiled machine! lost 5 to herm,out of 16 a real heart breaker,so im gonna seed a lemon thai i had cookin on the back burner,when life gives you lemons........make lemon thai


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## hellraizer30 (May 1, 2011)

Sounds good il post some progress later today


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## MoJobud (May 1, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Anybody have new progress with there ebb?


I just entered my flowering stage and think the 2 gallon buckets are not going to be big enough. Been vegging for almost 2 months. Short wide plants with 8-10 main stems each lst'd. Height is about 26 inches including the bucket. Bottom of the buckets are completely filled with roots. I am a bit nervous since they are taking up 4x8 foot print under 2 x 1000w. Moving them to a larger space and adding a light or two is not a problem. Just didn't want to transplant into a larger bucket mid bloom.

Hellraizer, how often do you start with a fresh res tank? Weekly in bloom?


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## hellraizer30 (May 1, 2011)

In the first 4 weeks you should be ok with every 2 weeks with add back of water and 1/8th nutes
But after that a three foot plant x29 buckets will drink 20+ gal a day lol so then i go every week.
Just cus you have lots of roots as long as your flooding enough water they should be good, thats
The cool thing about hydro.

Now i now your flooding less buckets so you should get 2 weeks all the way through


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## i81two (May 1, 2011)

How often are you adding the 1/8 nute with add back water ?


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## hellraizer30 (May 1, 2011)

Everytime i add back so once a week only time I dont during add back is early in veg when water level drops
And ppms go up


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## Ferredoxin (May 1, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Anybody have new progress with there ebb?


My first go-around in the Ebb/Gro was pretty terrible. I overfed the Sour Grapes for a little while by following the GH aggressive bloom schedule, so my yields were drastically reduced. 

I have since done a shit-load of researching, and I think I have found a good nutrient regime. I am running some Cherry Kush clones this time, and I am going to try and follow Swerve's schedule for Kushes, only without the GH Bloom boosters and with DynaGro Pro-Tekt. I will keep everyone posted on progress.


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## i81two (May 2, 2011)

Does 1/8 make your ppm go up or stay leval ?


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## hellraizer30 (May 2, 2011)

As the water goes down most the time the ppms go up so i add back to the full line on the res tank,
At this point i chect to see if the ppm droped to the target ppm i started with, if it drops bellow i add
1/8 th nutes to bring it up. almost 98% of the time 1/8th is what it takes to get back to target ppms.


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## Ferredoxin (May 2, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> As the water goes down most the time the ppms go up so i add back to the full line on the res tank,
> At this point i chect to see if the ppm droped to the target ppm i started with, if it drops bellow i add
> 1/8 th nutes to bring it up. almost 98% of the time 1/8th is what it takes to get back to target ppms.


Maybe we need a separate thread to discuss this, but isn't the ideal situation a stable pH and PPMs throughout? I assume that if the PPMs rise, the plants are drinking more than eating, and therefore the nute solution is a bit too strong. When the PPMs drop, they are feeding heavier than eating, and the nute solution should be a bit stronger.


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## hellraizer30 (May 2, 2011)

Well ferredoxin your right but finding that sweet spot is not so easy, each strain has a sweet spot
And running more than one can make it inposable! So I feel if you shoot high and work the add back
You should be fine, better to be high then low and get a def. Keeping ph stable in my opion is better
That a stable ppms, ppms are to go up through bloom and taper off toward the end. My ppms. Never
Go any higher than 1300


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## i81two (May 3, 2011)

Thanks Hellraiser. I kind of do the same thing except i dont top nute everyday, but just once in the middle of rez change or to make a rez go a little farther. 

I would do it everyday but we have 8 rez's and not enough time in a day if u know what i mean.


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## hellraizer30 (May 3, 2011)

I understand, ive got no chioce they can drink alot and due to the amout of bucket on 1 res


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## axl (May 4, 2011)

anyone have an issue with the top float valve in the control bucket randomly not sending the signal to shut off the pump and have the buckets overflow? Mine does that, and ill jiggle it aroudn and sometimes i will fix it but only for a couple weeks, then randomly, i wont touch anything that could have bumbed it, it will do it again. Any tips would be appreciated, its a huge pain in the ass to have to clean up 15 gal of water off the floor with a towel


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## hellraizer30 (May 4, 2011)

I think a new float valve is in order, not sure if cap sells them seperate. I would call them


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## Tamorin (May 5, 2011)

The only issue ive had is the damn monster brain had way to big a pump in it and i couldnt get the water low enough to shut the pump off thru the float valve got a smaller pump and problem is fixed. Plus i max out each brain and rez with only 12 plants.


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## cuddy.j (May 6, 2011)

Im currently running three sepatate cap systems and i generally break them down and throw out the old tubing and replace it after a grow. Could anyone share any experience or success youve had cleaning the system without breaking it down. Such as running bleach, h202, or clearex through it. What would be a good solution to break down the buildup and then sanitize. n Also ant methods for cleaning hydroton. Thank you


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## hellraizer30 (May 6, 2011)

You can run a 40ml in 30gal and run it for 24hr and then fire back up but i wouldnt go more than 2 grow
Cycles without changing the tubing, or if you back track in this thread theres some upgrades i did to make
It simple to clean.


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## smacc46 (May 8, 2011)

I have been reading for a few days now and wanted to know if anyone has used the Titan Flo N grow system....same concept just square buckets and tubing is bigger which i guess is always a good thing. Leaning toward the Titan....


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## Tamorin (May 8, 2011)

where i am theres a boiler parts factory and they also sell accesories, they have all size and length cleaning brushes.If people are intrested after I go there and I know for a fact if they sell like 3 foot half inch plastic bristle brushes thas perfect for the tubes. Ive been in the same situation I hate throwing the stuff away after the 2nd grow.


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## axl (May 8, 2011)

I also have 3 ebb and grows, and i amalways lookoing for a quicker way to re start things. I however have tried cleaning the tubes with bleach, h2o2, i would flood back and forth 15 on 15 off for like 2 days but that sludge that coats the inside of the tubes never came out. So, that made me nervoous nd just decide to buy new tubing.

As far as the discussion above with the ppms and stuff, i foudn that topping off the water as often as possible is beneficial, expecially mid to late flowering when the plants suck up a shit ton of water, in a very short amoutn of time thte ppms can become unbalanced and cause burn/lockout/deff problems. All can be avoided by keeping the resavore aroud the same conditions.


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## stillgamble (May 8, 2011)

smacc46 said:


> I have been reading for a few days now and wanted to know if anyone has used the Titan Flo N grow system....same concept just square buckets and tubing is bigger which i guess is always a good thing. Leaning toward the Titan....


i have the flow n gro and so far i love it, the only prob im having is my water temps r high but i will move the res after this grow. im only on day 18 of flowering but they look great. but i never had the cap system so i cant say its better or worst but i do like how the cap has made a few changes to the buckets so there is not as much or any water in the bottom of the bucket after flooding but i like the 360 mesh areation inserts of the flo. ill know more in 6 to 7 weeks


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## benny blanco (May 13, 2011)

I normally use flood trays with rockwool but thinking of trying out the e&g. Couple questions. For 48 plant in 2 gallon buckets how much hydroton would I need and how big of a rez do I need? Also how often would I have to top it off?


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## i81two (May 13, 2011)

benny blanco said:


> I normally use flood trays with rockwool but thinking of trying out the e&g. Couple questions. For 48 plant in 2 gallon buckets how much hydroton would I need and how big of a rez do I need? Also how often would I have to top it off?


8 bags of hydroton
55 gallon (but bigger is better)
everyday top off


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## Osburn (May 15, 2011)

I'm getting ready to buy the Complete Monster System. In years past, I had great success doing DWC with 5 gallon buckets and hydroton. I used 4" x 4" rockwool cubes during veg on a flood and drain table and then transplanted them into the pots with hydroton for the last week of veg and then flower them. I'm thinking about doing the same thing with this system and use air stones in each pot and in the reservoir. Sound good? I was also wondering how well the monster system performs with 9 pots and with 12 pots. I can only legally flower three plants at a time, but if I ever decide to become a caregiver, that info would be helpful. Thanks in advance!


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## yum114 (May 17, 2011)

Has anyone who has bought the Ebb Monster in the last 6-12 months had any leaks? I just bought the system and am wondering if they've fixed the issues


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## hellraizer30 (May 19, 2011)

The new editions dont leak


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## yum114 (May 19, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> The new editions dont leak


 Good to hear. What about the stagnant water that sits on the bottom of the buckets before fill/drain cycles? Do I still need to lift my buckets for them to completely drain or is this no longer an issue?


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## doogleef (May 19, 2011)

The water is not stagnant. It gets cycled every time the system floods. Not an issue.


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2011)

Yah dont worrie about the water ive tested both lifted and not and there was no difference


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## yum114 (May 22, 2011)

*"**You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to hellraizer30 again**"*


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## babysas (May 24, 2011)

hey all...
I'm on page 56 of this thread....(so great!)
anyways....i got a ebb and grow off CL for $150...it had never been used....
and i have a 600w hps in a air cooled hood....
how many plants should i run under 1 600w?
i plan on getting another 600w down the road a bit....
but want to start making indoor meds........
anyone want to help?


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## hellraizer30 (May 25, 2011)

1 600 lamp isnt enough for the 12 site but you. Can down grade to 6 and that would work ok


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## med4u (May 25, 2011)

sparka,mojo, good lookin out on the aquahub hook up,and remote idea,bought 2 at that price!looks like we're gonna need a bigger lab......

and helli,daily dose of reps, as always, well deserved


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## lostsmoker (May 28, 2011)

How do you guys go about topping off your reservoir? What is the water source that you use?


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## hellraizer30 (May 28, 2011)

lostsmoker said:


> How do you guys go about topping off your reservoir? What is the water source that you use?


I use plain water and every 4 or 5 days i add water to top off then 1/4 nutes or just what it takes to get to the ppm im wanting.


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## lostsmoker (May 29, 2011)

"Plain" as in from the tap? Just wondering since I use a stealth ro and would fill a 2nd res to have water on hand to top off. It takes some time even to get 30 gallons from it. I read a lot of this thread and it is fun to read. The one thing that stood out was water use of the plants and how often do you need to top off during the different weeks of growth. Window shopping for now and this thread really might point me to the ways of Ebb n Grow.


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## hellraizer30 (May 29, 2011)

I dont use RO i feal its overated and not a must, but in some cases it very important if you have bad water!


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## guati86 (May 29, 2011)

Whats good everyone! I have been reading and following for a couple of weeks already. And I have the 12 pot system. Its amazing almost full proof. Just a lil worried about that elbow in the res. The majority of my babies are 8". I got a eight foot tall room, but i only want them to get to about 5 feet. so like six feet with the bucket. Whats a good height to switch to flowering?


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## hellraizer30 (May 29, 2011)

A 3 footer will flower out to about 6 ft.thats a monster of a plant a 12 of them would drink so much
Water it would be alot of work but very cool and if you do it post some pics


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 1, 2011)

Here is my second crack at the Ebb & Grow after a disappointing last run...all my fault. I overdosed the plants big time and the yield really suffered. I think the strain, Sour Grapes, was a low yielder to begin with, but it was certainly covered in resin and a good smoke.

Anyway, I have made some adjustments. I added 6 more pots, for a total of 24 under 4 x 1000w. I also retooled the feeding schedule and switched strains. I thought I had 18 Cherry Kush and 6 Sour Diesel, but due to a mis-labeled mother I got from a friend, I now have about half and half. No worries...I could use the extra Sours to help make up for the lousy yield last time....lol. 

Here they are at 24 days of 12/12 after 3 weeks of veg. Next time around I am only going to veg them for ~2 weeks, and top them just a few days prior to the flip. I am pleased with the results so far!

Cherry Kush. Smells like Ludens cough drops!

Sour D stretching out;


Room shot:


Cherry


Sour


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 1, 2011)

Looking fing great dude yah like you i went way to long in veg and they got to big 2weeks seems good +rep


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 2, 2011)

Thanks hr.

It's funny how this thread, almost singlehandedly, influenced me to purchase this setup. The ease of use is fantastic. Being able to flood an entire room of pots with a 55 gallon res is awesome. Thanks for all the contributions thus far.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 2, 2011)

No problem, one thing you run into any slime in your res? Im using h202 and im geting a slime but it not like
The normal slime this dont stink and doesnt effect plants, im thinking it might be caused by the ph down im 
Using eitherway its weird.


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 2, 2011)

Yeah I get a sediment/slime in the res, on my big air plate, and on my pump. It doesn't coat the whole res, but seems to settle at the bottom, so Im guessing it is a nutrient interaction causing some sedimentation. 
I am going to start using the hygrozyme at the 8ml/gal rate every other week, instead of 5ml/gal every week. The higher rate of hygrozyme seems to take care of the residue, but at $110+ per gallon, Im looking for ways to stretch it out.

I ran into a weird issue this week with perlite/cottage cheese looking floaters in the res that were sticking to the sides and floating around. I noticed a ppm drop when the residue appeared, and as the stuff re-entered the solution the ppms rose again. Chalking it up to a potassium/calcium interaction.


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## formfactor (Jun 2, 2011)

Wow, awesome thread! I just finished reading all 164 pages. Lots of great information here, I feel much more comfortable with this ebb and gro. I just finnished my first e&g grow. I didn't flush my res a single time until then last 2 weeks, and the plants still turned out pretty good. I've decided I'm going to do 35 buckets this next run. But this time I plan on changing the res biweekly in veg, and early flower, then weekly during the heavy drink/feed cycle.

I've seen a lot of talk regarding the sludge that accumulates atthe bottom. Has anyone tried draining their res, then just dumping water down the last few buckets in the line? My theory is hopefully this will help push the sludge into the controller, and out into the res. I think I'm going to try that, along with a wet vac to suck that sludge out of the controller every week.


Also, this was my first hydro grow, and unfortunately I got a nasty spider mite infection during the final 2 weeks (during flush). I'm guessing since I flushed with just water, and no nutes, the plants were ultra week and vulnerable to the little bastards. Do youguys have any suggestions on preventing that in the future?

My last question is more about nutrients. I am using the 3 basic general hydroponics nutes, and I really like the simplicity of having just 3 ingredients. However, I also feel like if I'm going to do this, I want to get the very most I can. I've heard some folks here have switched to advanced nutrients. Do you guys have any experience there? Like have you switched to a new brand of nutes and see a major difference?


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## formfactor (Jun 2, 2011)

Also I just wanted to add a quick tip I have found... It seems the best way to run these buckets is back to back... So you can actually run 2 rows of buckets on the same line. Additionally I like to run the lines in U (or S if your rows are short enough) shapes... So rather than use an end bucket (LConnector), I just connect the ends of my rows (T connector) with a length of tube I think this seems to aid in shortening the time it takes to fill and drain the buckets,


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 2, 2011)

As for nutes im using a full AN line up and a full line of bc grow and im seeing no difference in the to,
Soo im switching away due to the cost of AN nutes. Bc is a 2part that bc grow and bc boost and for
Flower its bc bloom and bc boost, theres a sup called magical if you have a cal issue. So all the way
Through it 2part system. As for the pluming i went to 3/4 with pvc. Eitherway i love this system!


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## jujinz (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm using ebb and grow with hydroton and 3 part GH nute feeding. The setting water at the bottom is a major design flaw so raising them is a good idea. I did that and also modified the hose system by installing a 2' PVC main pipe from the controller bucket that T's off in the middle of the room and extends to both walls. The feeder hoses come out of the main pipe every 14" or so and are connected to 4 and 5 buckets each. It's easier to offset the plant spacing and the system fills and drains much more efficiently. Originally my room of 90 would take almost 30 minutes to fill completely and now it fills in about 10 and all of the buckets fill at the same rate instead of the staggered rate of the "daisy chain" hose set up. It has also virtually eliminated the clogging that can happen from gunk buildup when all of the feed water has to travel solely through the small diameter daisy chain hoses.


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## formfactor (Jun 3, 2011)

Right on thx hellrazer. I am very curious about nutes... Someday I may build a second controller, and run like 6 experimental buckets to tet different nutes. But with the GH 3 part I saw absolutely no deficiency whatsoever (until I flushed with just tap water,


Btw, you guys probably already know this but the 3/4" e&g gromits and fittings fit in the same holes as the 1/2" fittings...

I went to the hydro store and got 20 3/4" Ts 20 3/4" grommets and 20ft of 3/4" hose all for around 40$. Unfortunately I still need more of hem so I'm still running 1/2". But I am definitely going to upgrade to the 3/4" eventually. Another thing I'm concerned about is how much more water volume the bigger hosing would use... I can already imagine 35 pants is going to leave the res pretty empty between fills.


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 4, 2011)

Could I see some pictures of the PVC setups? Specifically the controller bucket/PVC junction, and the junctions with the pots. I know hellrasier posted some a while back, and Im too lazy to search for [email protected]! I would like to go this route also. I had some pretty plugged up tubes after the last run, and I would like to make it an easier job to change out all the hose after every run.


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## stillgamble (Jun 4, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> No problem, one thing you run into any slime in your res? Im using h202 and im geting a slime but it not like
> The normal slime this dont stink and doesnt effect plants, im thinking it might be caused by the ph down im
> Using eitherway its weird.


i had the same prob when i was using 29% h2o2 but my water temps were around 78 so im thinking that was my prob. so after i ran out of h2o2 i started using bleach and i dont have those slime shit floating around anymore and once in a while ill have a little slime around my airstones but not nearly as bad when i used the h2o2.


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 6, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> View attachment 1557490View attachment 1557488View attachment 1557486View attachment 1557484here some mods to get rid of the 1/2 hose and convert to 5/8 hose backed
> with 3/4 pvc flood time is way faster and the drain cycle is alot better. to connect the 3/4 to the 5/8 a presure fitting was use, there made by rain drip. and the pvc
> and peaces were got at lowes.


Nevermind....found yours hellraizer. Anyone else?


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 6, 2011)

Hellraizer: Do you think the 3/4" PVC line would be enough to supply 12 buckets in a run? I have my buckets set up in 4 rows of 6 buckets each, which of course need 4 supply lines coming from the brain bucket. I would like to eliminate 2 supply lines and feed two groups of 12 buckets with the PVC. 
Also, what did you replace the 'T' in each bucket with to get it to interface with the PVC? Did you leave the rubber grommet in the 'T' hole and slide the 5/8" tubing in? Is the 5/8" tubing the stuff that came with the Ebb/Gro?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 6, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Hellraizer: Do you think the 3/4" PVC line would be enough to supply 12 buckets in a run? I have my buckets set up in 4 rows of 6 buckets each, which of course need 4 supply lines coming from the brain bucket. I would like to eliminate 2 supply lines and feed two groups of 12 buckets with the PVC.
> Also, what did you replace the 'T' in each bucket with to get it to interface with the PVC? Did you leave the rubber grommet in the 'T' hole and slide the 5/8" tubing in? Is the 5/8" tubing the stuff that came with the Ebb/Gro?


For the tees I eliminated them and went to a strait fiting, made by raindrip and it ties into the 3/4 pvc through a 3/4
Pressure fitting made by rain drip also. You can go with 12 in a run it will just take longer to flood and drain. So to break
Down first it goes bucket to a 3/4 gromit to a strait 3/4 fiting like the one that comes with the kit, then to a small peace 
Of 3/4 hose and into a raindrip 3/4 pressure fitting thats threaded to the pvc.


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 7, 2011)

So did you get those straight 3/4" fittings from Raindrip or CAP? Do they require a worm clamp? The hose that came with the E&G is 3/4" correct?


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 7, 2011)

formfactor said:


> Right on thx hellrazer. I am very curious about nutes... Someday I may build a second controller, and run like 6 experimental buckets to tet different nutes. But with the GH 3 part I saw absolutely no deficiency whatsoever (until I flushed with just tap water,
> 
> 
> Btw, you guys probably already know this but the 3/4" e&g gromits and fittings fit in the same holes as the 1/2" fittings...
> ...


The bigger hose should't affect the amount of water in your system very much at all.. I upgraded to 3/4 and love it. The buckets hold the same amount of water.. You gained 1/4" in tube size.. that does't translate into a lot of extra water sitting in the tubes..


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 8, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> So did you get those straight 3/4" fittings from Raindrip or CAP? Do they require a worm clamp? The hose that came with the E&G is 3/4" correct?


No the hose that came with the ebb is 1/2 in. Also the all the fittings in the ebb system are raindrip
So it dont matter if you get them from cap or raindrip


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 9, 2011)

So is that just standard 3/4" irrigation tubing? Also....where is the 5/8" tubing coming into play?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 9, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> So is that just standard 3/4" irrigation tubing? Also....where is the 5/8" tubing coming into play?


its all 3/4 if I said 5/8 it was a typo, the hose I use is raindrip brand 3/4 but I use very little the rest is pvc


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## facestabber (Jun 10, 2011)

Hi everyone! I've been growing in the Ebb & Grow for about a year now with great success. I use a 60/40 mix of hydroton and coco along with the full line of H&G nutrients. After hours of reading this thread I've decided to give pure hydroton a try. This attempt is with a batch of "DHN" Chemdawg4. I picked the clones up from a local dispensary and popped them into my Ebb & Grows ten days ago. So far only about 80% of them have new visible growth which concerns me. They are developing roots and I can see the bases of the stems getting fatter just above the rockwool cubes (also an indicator of root development). Is this normal for clones to be sluggish in this system at first? 10 days? Heres a bit about the grow.

Lights-1000w lumateks dimmed to 600

Light cycle- 18/6
Nutes- House & Garder aqua [email protected] 5ml/gallon, [email protected] 1ml/gallon. 560ppm, 5.8-6.0ph
Flood- 3 times a day for 20 minutes. (every 6 hours except when lights off).
Medium-Hydroton
Water- tap water. About 50ppm from the tap, very clean.


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## facestabber (Jun 10, 2011)

Here are some low quality pics courtesy of me and samsung. Is this normal for 10 days in this system?


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## facestabber (Jun 10, 2011)

Here are my "Alien OG's". Currently in week 3 of 12/12. 60/40 hydroton/coco mix. I Flood as needed. Usually once every other day with H&G coco nutrients plus hydrofungicide. I had alot of problems getting this to work until I started using hydrofungicide in my rez to keep things clean. I yield 1.5 to 2 pounds per 1000w hps with this method. Hoping to get a consistant 2 pounds per light with straight hydroton.

I really am concerned about my plants in hydroton though and need you guys and girls help. Im only posting these coco grow pics to show that it does work well in the Ebb & Grow and to demonstrate my decent skill level when it comes to this kinda stuff. Any help diagnosing my sluggish babies will be greatly appreciated and rewarded with frequent updates and pics.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 10, 2011)

ive noticed babys transplanted to hydrotron take some time to get used to it then they take off


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 10, 2011)

Is there some sort of diy for making a cap like system? Anything I could read that could point me there?


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 10, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Is there some sort of diy for making a cap like system? Anything I could read that could point me there?


http://www.aquahub.com/store/diygbuildebb.html


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 10, 2011)

hmmmmmm. I think I might just do that. I've seen the aquahub mentioned before, but what is a rough estimate of final cost of materials to make a 10-12 bucket setup with it? If you know that is. Thanks.


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 10, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> hmmmmmm. I think I might just do that. I've seen the aquahub mentioned before, but what is a rough estimate of final cost of materials to make a 10-12 bucket setup with it? If you know that is. Thanks.


idunno... i just built my second 18 bucket system..
u need the controller, 20 or 24 buckets, two pumps, black tubing, hydroton clay balls (comes in 30liter bags i think), fittings...
buckets are 2.40 at walmart... idunno.. that should give you an idea at least..


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 10, 2011)

Cool. Thats what I figured. Probably around $300. Walmart sells old icing buckets for $1 here. I'm just doing 10-12 buckets though. Guess I wasn't really adding the hydroton, but I already have that in the cost of something else.


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 10, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Cool. Thats what I figured. Probably around $300. Walmart sells old icing buckets for $1 here. I'm just doing 10-12 buckets though. Guess I wasn't really adding the hydroton, but I already have that in the cost of something else.


they are double buckets... an inner and an outer or each plant site


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 10, 2011)

Oh, forgot. Where do they sell those in walmart???


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 10, 2011)

you can use any bucket... the inner one you drill holes into the bottom... the outer one get the fittings to connect the buckets together..


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## drgreentm (Jun 11, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> ive noticed babys transplanted to hydrotron take some time to get used to it then they take off


This is very true once my clones root and I put them in veg in hydroton they will not grow for a while, usually a week but sometimes longer, but when they take off they really take off like they are trying to make up for lost time lol.


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## facestabber (Jun 11, 2011)

Yeah, that what I was thinking too. I guess Im just looking to the magic answer to make them grow NOW. They do look even better today so if they are gong to take off it shouldnt be long now. So far at 11 days in veg in the E&G with hydroton my plants are roughly half the size they would be in a coco/hydroton mix. I usually veg for 3 weeks but I fear I may have to go longer with these in hydroton due to the painfully slow start.


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## fasteddy714 (Jun 11, 2011)

I luv my system,"EBB & GRO", Its a bud producin' bitch!! I got her about 2yrs. ago. Flushing my system is the only real work,I do it about ev.2-4 weeks. I'm running "Dutch Master's"-GOLD. I have tried Botanicare -PRO-bloom and luv it too,also used "Hunboldt County nutrients, a couple of others that ALL work great! BUT, for the few extra bucks D.M.'s is a winner.Its cleaner.The system flush is the only work on this baby.So,I gotta go flush-waaaa. The system really is "DA BOMB" ! ! !


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## drgreentm (Jun 11, 2011)

facestabber said:


> Yeah, that what I was thinking too. I guess Im just looking to the magic answer to make them grow NOW. They do look even better today so if they are gong to take off it shouldnt be long now. So far at 11 days in veg in the E&G with hydroton my plants are roughly half the size they would be in a coco/hydroton mix. I usually veg for 3 weeks but I fear I may have to go longer with these in hydroton due to the painfully slow start.


I usually will soak the fresh roots right in a mix of hormex rooting hormone and water before transplant to the hydroton to help with the slow start, the hydroton is heavy and I think that is mainly what stresses the roots most but that's just my concenses not 100% sure.


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## fasteddy714 (Jun 11, 2011)

I just finished flushing my system and found that AFTER I flushed h2o from the res. Even filling my pots first,then after 1 cycle is run I still had a 700ppm reading on truncheon stick. So-I got a huge eye dropper and go inside the empty pots (on an angle) and just douche' the lines out. I flip the last 2 inches of water out too -wipe out the inside of the pots and move on. Once its done ya gotta log it on a calendaer and track everything. Done til later!


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 11, 2011)

Tto remedy this slow transition ive started to put babys in a 6in pot with growdan crutons, in a small flood system
For a week. Seems growdan promotes a better starting point, then when you transplant there alot more speedy to
Transition.


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 11, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> This is very true once my clones root and I put them in veg in hydroton they will not grow for a while, usually a week but sometimes longer, but when they take off they really take off like they are trying to make up for lost time lol.


I have the same lag time with bareroot clones from an aerocloner going into straight hydroton (~10-14 days). I was told by a friend to water the clones from the top a few times a day until they take hold, which is what I am going to try next time. Just make sure you dont overflow your res by doing this. It should help them get started faster. I never had a problem after the lag though......these suckers grow like weeds in this system once they get going.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 11, 2011)

They probably take about 10 days to actually root well enough to revert back to vegging. I know the same thing happens in soil for me, and it seemed to do it in my first hydro grow as well.


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## facestabber (Jun 11, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Tto remedy this slow transition ive started to put babys in a 6in pot with growdan crutons, in a small flood system
> For a week. Seems growdan promotes a better starting point, then when you transplant there alot more speedy to
> Transition.


Now this is some golden information. Im gonna give this a try on my next run. Thanks!!!


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## axl (Jun 11, 2011)

what has worked for me, is flooding the buckets only twice a day until the clone spreads itgs roots. Once i see roots poking out of the bottom of the buckets on most of them, i bump up the nutes to about 500 ppms. after about 3 days, they take off quick. I find it takes my clones about 7 days as well before the roots are spread enough.


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## MoJobud (Jun 11, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Tto remedy this slow transition ive started to put babys in a 6in pot with growdan crutons, in a small flood system
> For a week. Seems growdan promotes a better starting point, then when you transplant there alot more speedy to
> Transition.


I am using hail in my veg/trans and will get you a full report shortly. So far a mix of hail and hydroton hasn't slowed down my veg.


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## facestabber (Jun 11, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Tto remedy this slow transition ive started to put babys in a 6in pot with growdan crutons, in a small flood system
> For a week. Seems growdan promotes a better starting point, then when you transplant there alot more speedy to
> Transition.




How often are you flooding the croutons? When you remove from the 6in pot and transfer to the E&G bucket do you still set the croutons a half inch above the flood line?


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## facestabber (Jun 11, 2011)

facestabber said:


> View attachment 1641744View attachment 1641743
> 
> Here are my "Alien OG's". Currently in week 3 of 12/12. 60/40 hydroton/coco mix. I Flood as needed. Usually once every other day with H&G coco nutrients plus hydrofungicide. I had alot of problems getting this to work until I started using hydrofungicide in my rez to keep things clean. I yield 1.5 to 2 pounds per 1000w hps with this method. Hoping to get a consistant 2 pounds per light with straight hydroton.
> 
> I really am concerned about my plants in hydroton though and need you guys and girls help. Im only posting these coco grow pics to show that it does work well in the Ebb & Grow and to demonstrate my decent skill level when it comes to this kinda stuff. Any help diagnosing my sluggish babies will be greatly appreciated and rewarded with frequent updates and pics.


Just wanted to share some more info on the coco/hydroton mix method. Although it's a more difficult method than pure hydroton it has worked amazingly well for me with several strains (UK Cheese, OG Kush, blue cheese, and currently some Alien OG. The key to making this work is to use the E&G as a semi-automated watering system as opposed to an "ebb and flood". Let the coco dry out a bit between waterings. I keep all the tabs on my controller buckets set to drain and flip them manually when watering is needed. Some of you will probably think I am retarded for putting coco coir in my E&G but it really has been an excellent way to water my plants. With a thick canopy wall to wall its near impossible to hand water without damaging trees.I have also found that calmag supplementation is a must when in coco coir. If done right yield is huge ang quality is top shelf. My only complaint is pre-rinsing salty coco coir and the mess it makes.
Buckets should also be elevated about 1/2 inch when using coco to drain off the water in the bottom. It can become stagnant when you only flood less than once a day.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 11, 2011)

facestabber said:


> How often are you flooding the croutons? When you remove from the 6in pot and transfer to the E&G bucket do you still set the croutons a half inch above the flood line?


I put 3in above the flood and 3in below the flood line. And when there in the ebb they get x4 floods no floods at night.

Im also trying a few with 100% growdan crutons, to try to avoid washing rock


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## facestabber (Jun 11, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I put 3in above the flood and 3in below the flood line. And when there in the ebb they get x4 floods no floods at night.
> 
> Im also trying a few with 100% growdan crutons, to try to avoid washing rock


Im gonna try this. I clone in an ezcloner so I will be going bare roots to rockwool croutons and then hand watering as needed. Do you feel like a once a day hand watering would work till I put them in the E&G?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 12, 2011)

as long as the rockwool/growdan is wet your good if it drys out just water it, one thing about this stuff is you need to soak it and adjust the
ph before using.


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## Osburn (Jun 12, 2011)

I just got my monster system up and running and I like it alot except for one problem. The drain pump spends like a half hour at the end of cycle getting two glasses of water out of the brain bucket. Anything I can add to the float valve to quit abusing the drain pump? I was thinking of some rubber grommets or o-rings...


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 12, 2011)

Is your pump sideways in your controller bucket?
That helps..
In my home made system, I take the endcap and sponge off my pump and mount the suctin cups on the side of the bucket with the "sucky end" of the pump right on the bottom of the buckets.. pulls almost every bit out..


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## i81two (Jun 12, 2011)

Put a couple shims under the front of the controller bucket so it is a little out of leval.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 12, 2011)

Osburn said:


> I just got my monster system up and running and I like it alot except for one problem. The drain pump spends like a half hour at the end of cycle getting two glasses of water out of the brain bucket. Anything I can add to the float valve to quit abusing the drain pump? I was thinking of some rubber grommets or o-rings...


the reason the pump does that is when the pump shuts off the water that didnt get pumped out thats in the extraction lne drains back to the command box
and trips the float vavle to turn the pump back on, this will continue and overtime burn your pump up. this is the #1 issue with cap system ive found and is easy
to fix first way to correct it is to get a wrench and rotate the float valve a bit, secound is to take a peace of cardboard and raise the float side of the command
box up, so place the cardboard under the bottom left side to tilt the box and make the left over water move to the right side and not trip the valve switch.
also keeping the command box right next to the res tank will lessen the amount of extraction line and lesson the amount of water that can return to the box.

hope all this makes sense lol


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## drgreentm (Jun 12, 2011)

This morning I was doing my checks and noticed that the command bucket was on the drain cycle as usual but the bucket was still full, so I unplugged the drain pump and plugged it straight into the power outlet to see if the pump crapped out an it kicked on so I plugged it back into the brain and it started working. Hope it's not a big problem.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 12, 2011)

never had that happen before, im shure its the pump so watch it ive had pumps not come on, remember the 30 I lost in the aero
well same shit, later I cleaned the pump and plugged it in and it worked fine. pumps are a nightmare, why im in the process
of converting all my pumps to the little gaint mini pumps there $99 a peace but well worth it.


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## drgreentm (Jun 12, 2011)

My thougts was the pump as well, I have tons of pumps laying around I know there are allot of pumps out there that are meant to come on in short bursts I actually have one that was purchased for a aero cloner that was never used but it's like over 500 gph don't know if that matters


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 12, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> My thougts was the pump as well, I have tons of pumps laying around I know there are allot of pumps out there that are meant to come on in short bursts I actually have one that was purchased for a aero cloner that was never used but it's like over 500 gph don't know if that matters


You can use any pump you want.. if you put in a 500 gph, you might drain faster.. What are the stock pumps in the actual CAP ebb and gro? Ebb monster?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 12, 2011)

I think there 300gph pumps


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## drgreentm (Jun 12, 2011)

Yup that's what mine are. At least I have it if I need it. Seems to be working now though.


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 12, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> Yup that's what mine are. At least I have it if I need it. Seems to be working now though.


Nice.. You know, I have two of these systems in my flower room.. The first one I built, I bought big pumps for and used 3/4 for all of the connections... The second one, I bought small pumps and used the 1/2" tubing for the pumps BUT 3/4 poly for the bucket plumbing..

I find that the smaller system keeps up with the flow better than the large pump system. This doesn't matter too much in during the filling cycle, but is most noticeable in the drain cycle (on the large pump system). I worry about the drain pump failing prematurely...

I've just started using bleach instead of H2O2 and Hygrozyme.. and OMG. I can't believe I have not used this all along.. Works great, is cheap as hell...just like my hot tub.. anyway..


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 12, 2011)

yep plain bleach is awsome, I use it when thing get bad! but for proventive mantenace I use H202.
@ tommy you have some pics to show of your DIY ebb setup?


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## drgreentm (Jun 12, 2011)

Ya the bleach works great Once a batch is done I will run just plain water with a healthy dose of bleach in it for a few days and everything looks like it just came from the store lol I have used it in with the plants as well, just not as strong of course, and it works great too.


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 12, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> yep plain bleach is awsome, I use it when thing get bad! but for proventive mantenace I use H202.
> @ tommy you have some pics to show of your DIY ebb setup?


I have read that keeping a .5PPM residual is good to keep stuff clean at all times and 2.5PPM chlorine for emergencies.

I have some shitty pics in my journal..


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 12, 2011)

i81two said:


> Put a couple shims under the front of the controller bucket so it is a little out of leval.


Gonna do this tonight....thanks! I would rather shim the front than the side with the float because my drain pump is at the back of the brain bucket. Lets see how it does....


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 12, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> the reason the pump does that is when the pump shuts off the water that didnt get pumped out thats in the extraction lne drains back to the command box
> and trips the float vavle to turn the pump back on, this will continue and overtime burn your pump up. this is the #1 issue with cap system ive found and is easy
> to fix first way to correct it is to get a wrench and rotate the float valve a bit, secound is to take a peace of cardboard and raise the float side of the command
> box up, so place the cardboard under the bottom left side to tilt the box and make the left over water move to the right side and not trip the valve switch.
> ...


Could you elaborate on the rotation of the float valve? Are you talking about the valve that is already cocked to one side, or the straight up and down one? Which way did you rotate it? Is the purpose to cut the pump off sooner, and leave a little more water in the bottom of the bucket?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 12, 2011)

the purpose is to allow the water that runs back from the hose that goes up to the res to have room to drain back and not trip the switch.
the one to rotate is the one thats at a angle just turn it a bit not much, if the float is slanted to the right turn it counter clock wise, if its
slanted to the left then turn it clockwise. ive got three command boxes and all of then are different.


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## facestabber (Jun 13, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> This morning I was doing my checks and noticed that the command bucket was on the drain cycle as usual but the bucket was still full, so I unplugged the drain pump and plugged it straight into the power outlet to see if the pump crapped out an it kicked on so I plugged it back into the brain and it started working. Hope it's not a big problem.


I've also had this happen. In my case it was caused by manually holding up the drain floats to drain more water from my controller bucket (operator error). I held the floats until the pump sucked air. The next time it was activated to drain it just sat there cavitating until I unplugged it and the air bubbles floated out of the pump allowing it to work again. Its never been a problem when I didnt muck with it.


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## facestabber (Jun 13, 2011)

Update..... 13 days in the E&G. These Chem4 clones are finally starting to go!
Kicked my dimmable lumateks up a notch today to the 750w setting and increased ppm to 800.
Using h2o2 at 2 ml/gallon AND Hydrofungicide at 2ml/gallon. I've had bad problems in the past with root rot so Im not taking any chances.


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## facestabber (Jun 13, 2011)

Update- My 4x8 tent. Alien OG day 22. 60/40 coco/hydroton mix. Flooding once every 3rd day now. 100% "beneficial" free root zone and never been healthier!

On a side note, Im really loving these cool tubes. Tent stays around 80F even with dimmable 1000's set to super bright mode. They run so cool I can actually lay my hand on the glass of the tubes without discomfort. They also increase head room and save a ton of weight from hanging on the flimsy tent frame.


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## Osburn (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys. Shimming out the front of the brain bucket and keeping tubing to a minimum did the trick. Now I have another problem:

The fill pump is getting some kind of ciphon effect during drain cycle and pumping water into the brain bucket. If I unplug the drain pump hose, the ciphon effect stops. How do I prevent this from happening?


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 13, 2011)

Put a 90 degree elbow just under the lid of the barrel leaving pump1 (just like the pic, but keep the elbow INSIDE the bucket..) drill a tiny hole in the bend of the 90 degree elbow.. it will break the siphon effect...

It will also "pee" a little as it fills, so make sure it is inside of your barrel..

also, keep the 90 degree elbow above the water line in the barrel.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 13, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> put a 90 degree elbow just under the lid of the barrel leaving pump1 (just like the pic, but keep the elnow INSIDE the bucket.. drill a tiny hole in the bend of the 90 degree elbow.. it will break the siphon effect...
> it will also "pee" a little as it fills, so make sure it is inside of your barrel..
> 
> also, keep the 90 degree elbow above the water line in the barrel.


well put +rep


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## formfactor (Jun 15, 2011)

Yes, especially the use of the word "pee"!


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 15, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> I've just started using bleach instead of H2O2 and Hygrozyme.. and OMG. I can't believe I have not used this all along.. Works great, is cheap as hell...just like my hot tub.. anyway..


What is the rate of bleach that you are adding per gallon? My res is starting to smell funky.... =( What would be a safe amount to add to clean up a problem, and what is the rate for daily-ish maintenance? Plants are on day 37 of 12/12.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 15, 2011)

For 55gal add 15mil 

Or 7drops of plain bleach


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 16, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> What is the rate of bleach that you are adding per gallon? My res is starting to smell funky.... =( What would be a safe amount to add to clean up a problem, and what is the rate for daily-ish maintenance? Plants are on day 37 of 12/12.


" You can't use either with organic fertilizers and should not use chlorox or H2O2 with organic supplements. Just add the chlorox as indicated. You want an initial dose as spelled out in the other thread at 2.5 ppm initally as some will be used to oxidice any present rot. with out a meter to test for residual chlorine I would just start with the 2.5 ppm and then 0.5 ppm every two days after that until the problem a has cleared up. "

Quick and dirty

*Flairform Pythoff copy*

100ml of Clorox Regular bleach per 1 gallon of water
(Adding the water/bleach dilute from above)

5ml per gallon of nutrient solution the first day
2.5ml per gallon of nutrient solution each following day


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 16, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> " You can't use either with organic fertilizers and should not use chlorox or H2O2 with organic supplements. Just add the chlorox as indicated. You want an initial dose as spelled out in the other thread at 2.5 ppm initally as some will be used to oxidice any present rot. with out a meter to test for residual chlorine I would just start with the 2.5 ppm and then 0.5 ppm every two days after that until the problem a has cleared up. "
> 
> Quick and dirty
> 
> ...


not sure where you get this levels to use but in no way should you use 100ML per gal
and 5ML pr gal is to much also. a safe level is 7 eye drops per gal and for 55gal use
15 to 20 ml of plain uncented bleach. also bleach and H202 can be used with some
organic just not organics with micro-organsims. 

not trying to step on toes but with bleach those levels are to high!!


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 16, 2011)

The pythoff copy is a recipe to make 1gallon of Pythoff-style concentrate. You then use that concentrate in your rez at 5mL/gallon the first day and 2.5mL/gallon each day thereafter to keep a residual .5PPM free chlorine.


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 17, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> not sure where you get this levels to use but in no way should you use 100ML per gal
> and 5ML pr gal is to much also. a safe level is 7 eye drops per gal and for 55gal use
> 15 to 20 ml of plain uncented bleach. also bleach and H202 can be used with some
> organic just not organics with micro-organsims.
> ...


I get what he is saying. You add 100ml of bleach per gallon (~2.5% bleach) to use as your base solution, then add the solution at 5ml/gal for first day, 2.5 each following day. And everyone's plants look okay using bleach, right? Sounds WAYYYYYYY cheaper than 35% H2O2, which I am using at 0.5ml/gal every other day or so.


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 17, 2011)

Wayyyy cheaper. You can measure your chlorine levels, too. There are digital pens on eBay, or use a pool tester (droppers). 

I'm about to buy a pen.... Can use it on my hot tub. I use chlorine in the tub at the same levels. 2.5PPM as a shock and .5ppm residual. 

Pythoff is an expensive chlorine product..

This recipe is for 5% or 6% bleach, btw.


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## yum114 (Jun 27, 2011)

*I currently have a brand new 800GPH ActiveAqua pump that is not in use. I was wondering would upgrading the stock pump to my ActiveAqua 800GPH pump do any harm to the system or make anything function in a negative way or would it be a good thing? *


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 27, 2011)

Yes upgrading is ok a 800gph is fine just going to fill faster or drain faster, your useing the monster ebb and
It has 3/4 tubeing so you got alot of room to upgrade pumps and such


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## yum114 (Jun 28, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yes upgrading is ok a 800gph is fine just going to fill faster or drain faster, your useing the monster ebb and
> It has 3/4 tubeing so you got alot of room to upgrade pumps and such


 appreciate it HR. Should I also upgrade the tubing? If so should I keep it the same size or go bigger? I hear they ti\ubing they give you is horrible


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 28, 2011)

It is shity hose but 3/4 inch is plenty big enough


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## MoJobud (Jun 28, 2011)

Btw, did anyone else get the check valve from cap?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 28, 2011)

No how the hell do i get it been trying to get he local store to get them and here like what are you talking about


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## Tamorin (Jun 28, 2011)

Cap pissed me off with the pump they had inside the monster when it first came out damn thing was too big to get all the water out so the float valve would turn off. But I put a smaller pump in and I'm all set. What did u guys do break the check valve?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 28, 2011)

Tamorin said:


> Cap pissed me off with the pump they had inside the monster when it first came out damn thing was too big to get all the water out so the float valve would turn off. But I put a smaller pump in and I'm all set. What did u guys do break the check valve?


I have x4 ebb systems and none of them came
With a check valve


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## MoJobud (Jun 28, 2011)

I emailed a guy at cap and per his email he says that the check valve was supposed to be included. It took about 2-3 weeks from his email but I got one. It's friggen huge.


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## yum114 (Jun 28, 2011)

What is the check valve an what is its purpose. You guys claim you're not getting them I would like to make sure I have mine.


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## drgreentm (Jun 28, 2011)

yum114 said:


> What is the check valve an what is its purpose. You guys claim you're not getting them I would like to make sure I have mine.


 im also wondering what this is, dont think mine came with any check valve. is it just to check the water level easier??


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 28, 2011)

a check valve lets fluid go one way and not the other.

Are people getting a siphon effect where the rez empties back into the controller bucket seemingly magically?

I use a 90 degree elbow on the fill line in the barrel , but above the water level. It has a tiny hole in it to prevent the rez from siphoning into the controller bucket..


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## drgreentm (Jun 28, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> a check valve lets fluid go one way and not the other.
> 
> Are people getting a siphon effect where the rez empties back into the controller bucket seemingly magically?
> 
> I use a 90 degree elbow on the fill line in the barrel , but above the water level. It has a tiny hole in it to prevent the rez from siphoning into the controller bucket..


 o ok it came with a 90 with a tiny hole in it on mine that streams water out when the fill pump kicks on in the drum so im good i guess lol.


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## Oldgrowerdude (Jun 28, 2011)

I have been growing with a ebb and flow bucket system for 2 stright years , I just grow from seed pickout the best female and chop it up into 30 cuttings ready for dipping and placing in the ezcloner, and I am very pleased with the results of both ....got 6 grows in that time....


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## MoJobud (Jun 28, 2011)

The valve is used for pumping the water out. Mine at times will have some water move back and forth to cause the float to rock and kick on and off. It's basically a one way valve so water pumped out of the controller bucket never rushes back in.


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## yum114 (Jun 28, 2011)

Is the float valve SUPPOSED to come with the system when bought?


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## formfactor (Jun 28, 2011)

I bought min used and it has a different looking thing (says toro) and it's on my brain to drain line. 
check valve I guess..
That makes sense, I too am curious if it comes withthe sys...


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## MoJobud (Jun 28, 2011)

Seriously guys, just email cap. I doubt any of these units came with it.


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## drgreentm (Jun 28, 2011)

mine did not come with one on the controller for the drain line but there is literally no way it can siphon the drum as the line goes directly to the drum lid into a straight fitting to nothing, meaning the water pumped from the controller to the res just dumps to the water level. now when i first hooked it all up i ran a little piece of hose from the inside of the lid to the lower part of the res to silence the noise of water falling into it and this created a siphon to the controller so i removed the hose and problem solved no siphon.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 29, 2011)

The check valve will solve everybodys issue with float trip and back flow, ive figured out how to correct it by 
Keeping the C box. Right next to the res and keeping the hose goingfrom the C box as short as posable, by
Doing this it will solve theses issue but for the person that dont want the box right next to the res the check
Is the answer


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 30, 2011)

View attachment 1670706View attachment 1670705View attachment 1670704View attachment 1670703View attachment 1670702View attachment 1670698View attachment 1670697View attachment 1670695k heres the 3/4 upgrade, all parts bucket grommet-tubing-and raindrip pressure fiting are 1/2.
the rest is 3/4 pvc parts. you might ask why use any 1/2 parts well I havnt been able to get parts to go 100%
but the pressure from the amount of water in the 3/4 moves water through the 1/2 faster than without. all the
pvc is made in 4 foot sections for ease of cleaning. Im also done with rock going 100% growdan. these pressure
fitings work alot like macro fitting there simple just push the tubing in the fitting and it seals. also the threaded 
end makes removing or caping off a pot super simple. any ideas on filling in the 1/2 gaps would be great?


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## Ferredoxin (Jun 30, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> View attachment 1670706View attachment 1670705View attachment 1670704View attachment 1670703View attachment 1670702View attachment 1670698View attachment 1670697View attachment 1670695k heres the 3/4 upgrade, all parts bucket grommet-tubing-and raindrip pressure fiting are 1/2.
> the rest is 3/4 pvc parts. you might ask why use any 1/2 parts well I havnt been able to get parts to go 100%
> but the pressure from the amount of water in the 3/4 moves water through the 1/2 faster than without. all the
> pvc is made in 4 foot sections for ease of cleaning. Im also done with rock going 100% growdan. these pressure
> ...


DOPE....thanks a lot. Two things.....Are those straight 1/2" barbed fittings made by raindrip, and do they fit in the E&G grommets? Or are those new grommets also? And the other.....I'm super interested in your switch to Grodan. What size Grodan are you growing in? Are you using those Growcubes, or the large inserts? I am tired of hulking around Hydroton aka Dog food. Have you completed a grow with them? Do you flood much less frequently than with rocks?

One more thing.....is the interface with the brain bucket the same as with the pots?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 30, 2011)

the (barbed) fiting is a raindrip 1/2. and the grommets are the cap ones, the grow dan im going to is the cruton size.
as for floading this will be my first but I got a bud thats useing it and hes flooding x3 for 15min each during a light cycle.
Im thinking im going to start off like this, but I think less floods and longer will be better like x2 for 30 each once at lights
on and once at lights off for 12/12 and for veg x3 floods 30min each.


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## stillgamble (Jun 30, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> the (barbed) fiting is a raindrip 1/2. and the grommets are the cap ones, the grow dan im going to is the cruton size.
> as for floading this will be my first but I got a bud thats useing it and hes flooding x3 for 15min each during a light cycle.
> Im thinking im going to start off like this, but I think less floods and longer will be better like x2 for 30 each once at lights
> on and once at lights off for 12/12 and for veg x3 floods 30min each.


 ru using 2 gal buckets? in my 4 gal i only flooded once a day as the crutons more more water than u think but next time i might try 2 times a day and see what happens. did u ph the crutons and if so what ph did u set ur water to and how long did u soak them?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 30, 2011)

im going to soak them for couple of hours with ANs PH salution. going to be using the 2gal pots


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 30, 2011)

Would I be better off just going with the Titan flo-n-gro?


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 30, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Would I be better off just going with the Titan flo-n-gro?


Just get an aquahub controller kit and a $12 55 gallon barrel, and buckets from lowes or walmart for a few bucks a piece.. save a few hundred $$$..


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## endogarden (Jun 30, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Would I be better off just going with the Titan flo-n-gro?


Only if you like having less money.



tommyo3000 said:


> Just get an aquahub controller kit and a $12 55 gallon barrel, and buckets from lowes or walmart for a few bucks a piece.. save a few hundred $$$..


That's like the opposite of the Titan setup...


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 30, 2011)

endogarden said:


> That's like the opposite of the Titan setup...


How so? It would be better and cheaper.. opposite?


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## endogarden (Jun 30, 2011)

endogarden said:


> That's like the opposite of the Titan setup...





tommyo3000 said:


> How so? It would be better and cheaper.. opposite?


Well, since the titan isn't necessarily better (IMO) and it's waay more expensive, it would seem to be the opposite of better and cheap...


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## tommyo3000 (Jun 30, 2011)

endogarden said:


> Well, since the titan isn't necessarily better (IMO) and it's waay more expensive, it would seem to be the opposite of better and cheap...


I'm saying that a home-built DIY system with many 5 gallon plant sites, 3/4" or 1" tubing, and a controller from Aquahub would would be cheaper and better than a titan or a cap system..
I'm not sure what you are saying.


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## endogarden (Jul 1, 2011)

I was simply doggin on the Titan system for being so expensive for such a simplistic concept.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 1, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Would I be better off just going with the Titan flo-n-gro?


I like the ebb&grow not shure about the flo, a diy is possable but as a system it rocks and super simple


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 1, 2011)

endogarden said:


> Well, since the titan isn't necessarily better (IMO) and it's waay more expensive, it would seem to be the opposite of better and cheap...


Its the same cost as the cap system


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 1, 2011)

There is no need for 5gal unless you want 6 footers


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 1, 2011)

The reason I was looking at the Titan was the 3/4" lines, and the fact that on some of the sites I'm looking to buy from the CAP system has a disclaimer saying they aren't liable if it fucks up.... Greners I think.


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## tommyo3000 (Jul 1, 2011)

My plants use all 5 gallons for their roots with NO veg time in the system. 

They are 5 footers.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 1, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> My plants use all 5 gallons for their roots with NO veg time in the system.
> 
> They are 5 footers.


@tommy Cudos to you sir 5+ footers are monsters but most of us are stuck with a limit of how high we can grow them.
@hornedfrog I think its like that with both brand just the company saying if it floods there not responsable.


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## guati86 (Jul 2, 2011)

Hey whats up guys! I have had my ebb and grow for like 2 1/2 months now and i love it. Its easy and not bad to maintain. This is my first grow, I just wanted to learn the basics of hydroponics. I feel like i am ready to get a veg room setup, but there are so many ways to do it and i just need some advice from people who have been doing it for awhile now. I want to use my current 6wx6lx8h room for flowering only. I have a room next to it thats a 5x6x8 that i want to veg in. The room started out as 6x11x8 and can easily be modified or split into two rooms. i also have a super closet deluxe in the 5x6 side and its just too big. it needs to go. I hate that thing it just takes up space. So basically whats the best sytem or way to sprout and veg for my ebb and grow system. when i transplant them to the ebb and gro its like they stop growin for like two weeks from the transplant, but they where from soil. So maybe sprout and have them veg in a somewhat large size of rockwool cubes using a ebb and flow table and then put them in the ebb and grow buckets? I am using hydroton. There is just so many ways and i just want some advice on something that works and has worked well for someone in the past or is currently using.


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## tommyo3000 (Jul 2, 2011)

I rigged up two 2x2 ebb and flow tables to veg in.. I use rapid rooter plugs and hydroton in square pots in the tables.


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## Osburn (Jul 2, 2011)

Watering and Nutrient Questions

I'm having a few problems here and there with my first grow in almost a decade. In years past, I did DWC with GH's Flora series. Now I'm using a Monster with GH's Flora series. I swear GH's Flora series is more concentrated than it was ten years ago because I managed to overfertilize my plants in veg using my old tried and trued nutrient schedule. Once I got that sorted out, I noticed that some of my fan leaves are curling down like the plants are being overwatered. I went from 30 minutes twice a day to 15 minutes twice a day. They still look like they might be getting too much water and the 4 x 4 cubes inside the monster pots are always wet to the touch. DWC with five gallon pots was pretty dummy proof when it came to watering so I could use some help with regards to watering schedules for the monster. And I could use some help with GH's Flora Series. The strain is 21 from Centennial seeds. The plants are currently getting 1.5 teaspoons/gallon of gro, 1.5 teaspoons/gallon of micro, and 1 teaspoon/gallon of bloom.


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## drgreentm (Jul 2, 2011)

from the looks of the pic you have allot of room to go up in the pot, it looks like you planted your RW cube way to low as these systems flood pretty high so the closer you can get your RW to the top the better this could be a good reason why the cube is always saturated. im using the flora series right now but just switched to it for veg and im just using the lucas method for veg (micro bloom only at 1/2 strength 4-8 M-B for seedlings) seems to be working well i will bump it up to 8-16 M-B and this is all ML not tsp.


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## Osburn (Jul 2, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> from the looks of the pic you have allot of room to go up in the pot, it looks like you planted your RW cube way to low as these systems flood pretty high so the closer you can get your RW to the top the better this could be a good reason why the cube is always saturated.


You think? I planted the cubes maybe an inch into the water during flood cycle and then put extra hydroton around the cube. I'm thinking the ideal scenario would be to put 3/4" rockwool into the monster pots instead of 4 x 4 cubes, but the plants would sit even lower in the pots than they are right now if the 3/4" cubes are barely touching the water during flood cycle. 

While digging around the cubes today, I found some amazing side root growth that I never saw with DWC. In between flood cycles, the hydroton definitely holds a lot of moisture, but finding that sweet spot has proven a little difficult for a DWC guy. Any help would be appreciated.


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## drgreentm (Jul 2, 2011)

Osburn said:


> You think? I planted the cubes maybe an inch into the water during flood cycle and then put extra hydroton around the cube. I'm thinking the ideal scenario would be to put 3/4" rockwool into the monster pots instead of 4 x 4 cubes, but the plants would sit even lower in the pots than they are right now if the 3/4" cubes are barely touching the water during flood cycle.
> 
> While digging around the cubes today, I found some amazing side root growth that I never saw with DWC. In between flood cycles, the hydroton definitely holds a lot of moisture, but finding that sweet spot has proven a little difficult for a DWC guy. Any help would be appreciated.


 im not sure about the monster system but mine (2 gal pots) when in the flood cycle, will flood very close to the top. if i stick my finger about 1" in the hydroton i feel water. im actually using 4x4 rockwools and i am flooding 4x a day when lights on for 30 min's this is why i think your RW's may be a bit to deep but thats my best guess but i doubt it is the amount or duration of your flood cycles i would flood more than 2 times a day unless you where using something besides hydroton. i have always used this flood schedule in my flood trays and now in this system and it has always been a great schedule.


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## Osburn (Jul 2, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> im not sure about the monster system but mine (2 gal pots) when in the flood cycle, will flood very close to the top. if i stick my finger about 1" in the hydroton i feel water. im actually using 4x4 rockwools and i am flooding 4x a day when lights on for 30 min's this is why i think your RW's may be a bit to deep but thats my best guess but i doubt it is the amount or duration of your flood cycles i would flood more than 2 times a day unless you where using something besides hydroton. i have always used this flood schedule in my flood trays and now in this system and it has always been a great schedule.


Thanks for the info. Next time I plant a 4 x 4 cube into a monster pot, I'll put it right on top of the water line and see if that makes a difference. Who knows. It could also be the strain or just me sorting out my new grow room. Too many variables at this point...Even though some leaves are curling down, I'm starting to see aggressive growth and some nice root structure. Hold on 21's....The Qrazy Trains are coming!


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## drgreentm (Jul 2, 2011)

ya man its worth a shot, that hydroton will wick up water really well.


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## Ferredoxin (Jul 3, 2011)

Osburn said:


> Thanks for the info. Next time I plant a 4 x 4 cube into a monster pot, I'll put it right on top of the water line and see if that makes a difference. Who knows. It could also be the strain or just me sorting out my new grow room. Too many variables at this point...Even though some leaves are curling down, I'm starting to see aggressive growth and some nice root structure. Hold on 21's....The Qrazy Trains are coming!


Im about to buy some Qrazy Train beans from TGA....it looks sick!


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## Osburn (Jul 3, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Im about to buy some Qrazy Train beans from TGA....it looks sick!


I'm happy with my Qrazy Trains so far. 100% germination rate and all of them have roots coming out of the bottom of 4 x 4 cubes even though they've only been in veg for barely two weeks. And the best part is that I can order them from my local dispensary. I remember back in the day when I had to take a flight to the Netherlands to get my hands on some good seeds...


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## Osburn (Jul 3, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> ya man its worth a shot, that hydroton will wick up water really well.


I put some Qrazy Trains in monster pots tonight and noticed that I definitely put the 21's a couple of inches too deep in the pots. Live and learn.


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## formfactor (Jul 4, 2011)

hammer21 said:


> I`m building my own controller for ebb system after running a cap it is very plain no adjustments and cheap etc. My controller use`s a top off tank when my 55 gallon barrel gets low it pumps solution from the top off tank to the 55 gallon barrel . When the top off tank gets low the controller has output that i connect to a phone dailer to call me to let me know. Also it will call me if water level is to high or has leaks also more leds to let you know what is happening. Also i can adjust the floats to any height i want or need.
> View attachment 1368896View attachment 1368894View attachment 1368895


Wait... Are you serious? It actually calls you? Very cool... Could you hook it up to some kind of USB relay and have it send you an email?


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## xXJakeXx (Jul 4, 2011)

What do you guys use to clean the 55 gal out with and how often, i was told three times once when going to veg then again into flower and then once more a week before harvest. im going to use clearex should one feeding be sufficient to clean the system?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 4, 2011)

clearex is not needed I think its a waist of money


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## Ferredoxin (Jul 4, 2011)

xXJakeXx said:


> What do you guys use to clean the 55 gal out with and how often, i was told three times once when going to veg then again into flower and then once more a week before harvest. im going to use clearex should one feeding be sufficient to clean the system?


I clean my res every week with my res change. I use bleach at around 1/2-3/4 C per few gallons...Its not precise. Quick scrub, double rinse, and refill.


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## Ferredoxin (Jul 4, 2011)

xXJakeXx said:


> What do you guys use to clean the 55 gal out with and how often, i was told three times once when going to veg then again into flower and then once more a week before harvest. im going to use clearex should one feeding be sufficient to clean the system?



hellraizer is right....CLearex is a waste of $$$. Think about it...the purpose is to leach as much salt into the solution as possible in order to clean your medium. Leaching works via osmosis....from high to low concentration. Adding anything to the leach water will only serve to decrease the amount of nutrients that can dissolve in the solution. Starting with as low PPM water as possible is best for leaching....ie tapwater or DI/RO.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 4, 2011)

hey ferredoxin you change out every week geez doesnt that burn up the nutes fast?


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## Ferredoxin (Jul 4, 2011)

Not really....I only use about $200 in nutes every grow. I keep my EC around 1.8 when they are really cranking...usually around 1.5. Are there people who dont dump their res each week to clean it and freshen it up? I add almost 10 gallons of fresh h20 per day....by Lucas standards that would mean a changeout every 5-6 days. I thought I was pushing it by going every 7. How are you supposed to change the strength/ratio of the nutes according to the growth stage if you dont dump every week?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 5, 2011)

I dump every 2 weeks but due to slime im thinking of every week to.


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## tommyo3000 (Jul 5, 2011)

i've been slime-free for a month now because of chlorine bleach. I pour some in my rez every day or two..


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## Ferredoxin (Jul 5, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I dump every 2 weeks but due to slime im thinking of every week to.


Do you top off with full-strength nutes or fresh water?


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## xXJakeXx (Jul 5, 2011)

My ppms have been jumping and arnt correct with my cheat sheet I thought it was due to The system getting some build up through out it. So no on clearex yes on chlorine bleach? I use technaflora for nutes.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 5, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> Do you top off with full-strength nutes or fresh water?


Once a week I add nutes to my add back at 1/4 strength the rest of the add backs are plain fresh 
Water


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 5, 2011)

xXJakeXx said:


> My ppms have been jumping and arnt correct with my cheat sheet I thought it was due to The system getting some build up through out it. So no on clearex yes on chlorine bleach? I use technaflora for nutes.


If your useing technaflora thrive alive b1 then bleach is a no no,
Im switching to tech this run with the full resipe for sec hope to
See good results. So #1 system is tech #2 system is AN and
#3 system is GH il be switching the GH for dyno gro as soon as
I can get it on order. My goal is to find the cleanest running nute
Brand out there.


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## drgreentm (Jul 5, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> If your useing technaflora thrive alive b1 then bleach is a no no,
> Im switching to tech this run with the full resipe for sec hope to
> See good results. So #1 system is tech #2 system is AN and
> #3 system is GH il be switching the GH for dyno gro as soon as
> ...


 i want to know the same thing, i run the gh flora now and its WAY cleaner than the floranova and i have also heard great things about the dyna gro, im interested to see how it works for you.


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## researchkitty (Jul 5, 2011)

DONT USE BLEACH. This was discussed in this thread *four* times before already, and determined every time to be not good for Hydroponics.  You can use a little bleach in a spray for a cleaner, but dont go filling up your 55 gallon rez with bleach water then draining it out.

To clean your 55 gallon rez, use a sponge and water. No need for any cleaners or chemicals of any sort. ALL of that nasty brown residue that you see there is just nutrients settling. Add a cheapy recirculating fishtank pump to help prevent that, they are $6 at a Hydro store.  Just drop it in and let it run! No hoses required.

I never clean, nor change my water, until after each harvest. Its always a top off and balance ppm to whatever week the plants are on, and if there's any "new" nutrients for that week they get the full 55 gallon dosage of that particular product then just continual balancing after that.................... Each 8 week harvest uses about 150 gallons of water for every 3000 watts of lighting. Pretty low usage and low waste...........

Hope this helps


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## endogarden (Jul 5, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> To clean your 55 gallon rez, use a sponge and water. No need for any cleaners or chemicals of any sort. ALL of that nasty brown residue that you see there is just nutrients settling. [red]Add a cheapy recirculating fishtank pump to help prevent that[/red], they are $6 at a Hydro store.  Just drop it in and let it run! No hoses required.


What is this object you describe? Some sort of aquarium water filter? That sits in your rez and cleans the water, but doesn't remove useful particles?


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## xXJakeXx (Jul 5, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> DONT USE BLEACH. This was discussed in this thread *four* times before already, and determined every time to be not good for Hydroponics.  You can use a little bleach in a spray for a cleaner, but dont go filling up your 55 gallon rez with bleach water then draining it out.
> 
> To clean your 55 gallon rez, use a sponge and water. No need for any cleaners or chemicals of any sort. ALL of that nasty brown residue that you see there is just nutrients settling. Add a cheapy recirculating fishtank pump to help prevent that, they are $6 at a Hydro store.  Just drop it in and let it run! No hoses required.
> 
> ...


You never change your water???!?!?!? And everything is fine????


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## researchkitty (Jul 5, 2011)

endogarden said:


> What is this object you describe? Some sort of aquarium water filter? That sits in your rez and cleans the water, but doesn't remove useful particles?


Its the pump that most nutrient manufacturers say to use in your hydroponic reservoir. 

Not "this particular pump", but one like it is plenty fine:

http://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Aquariums-Fountains-Pump-Mini/dp/B000HHQGM2

All you do is plug it in and drop it in the rez. It keeps the nutrient mixture moving around so that nutrients dont settle on the bottom of the tank, where your pumps are. Really helps alleviate most of the cleaning requirements of Ebb & Grow.

The exact model I use is like $6 at the Hydro store, whatever their least powerful smallest pump is will work just fine.  Remember, no hoses, just toss it in the barrel and leave it on 24/7. It wont move enough water to spray it out of the barrel, nowhere near that much pump power.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 5, 2011)

I run a recirculating pump already but Im not baging on you and your method of not doing res dumps just im not going
to jump into it without alot more info on it. ive seen and heard people do it just not comfortable yet.


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## tommyo3000 (Jul 5, 2011)

i've flowered with only two changes with superb results. I would think that no changes could produce good results if the rez is big enough,,


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 5, 2011)

View attachment 1677640View attachment 1677639View attachment 1677638View attachment 1677637View attachment 1677635View attachment 1677632View attachment 1677630

ok here you go ebb&grow lovers lol 13 orange and purple kush above is x4 600s going into week three what you all think?


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## Ferredoxin (Jul 5, 2011)

Lookin good hellraizer! Is that with straight hydroton, or did you mix in some Grodan cubes?

I have obviously been changing my res out too often it seems. I am going to go to every 2 weeks this next grow and see how it goes. Are you topping off with fresh water daily, or do you wait for the res to drop a bit before filling it back to the top?


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## Ferredoxin (Jul 5, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> DONT USE BLEACH. This was discussed in this thread *four* times before already, and determined every time to be not good for Hydroponics.  You can use a little bleach in a spray for a cleaner, but dont go filling up your 55 gallon rez with bleach water then draining it out.
> 
> To clean your 55 gallon rez, use a sponge and water. No need for any cleaners or chemicals of any sort. ALL of that nasty brown residue that you see there is just nutrients settling. Add a cheapy recirculating fishtank pump to help prevent that, they are $6 at a Hydro store.  Just drop it in and let it run! No hoses required.
> 
> ...


Kitty.....how do you know that you are maintaining the correct ratio of nutrients in the res? Are you just running the Lucas, or another method?

Wait....nevermind. I just remembered that you are a Humboldt fan... =). Are you running Lucas ratios, or what is prescribed on their label?


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## stillgamble (Jul 6, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> DONT USE BLEACH. This was discussed in this thread *four* times before already, and determined every time to be not good for Hydroponics.  You can use a little bleach in a spray for a cleaner, but dont go filling up your 55 gallon rez with bleach water then draining it out.
> 
> this is a bit off subject but i had a real bad slime prob and i tried h2o2 with no luck so i said f it and tried bleach at 15 ml for my 50 gal of water and it worked great. my air stones and pump were covered in slime and had stuff floating around in the rez but it went away after using bleach. not sure if it had any neg effect on the product but it smoked fine to me


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 6, 2011)

@stillgamble bleach is the shit and if it works then use it what i say lol
@ferredoxin I wait till its about halfway down the res then addback, im
Also not adding ph down till it hits 6.0 then droping it to 5.6 finding 
Chaseing ph is rong and plant like the slow ph swing, also adding so
Much ph down before caused a slime so the less you ph the better.


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## kevin murphy (Jul 6, 2011)

sweet as mate sweet as...nice update pal


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks kev....!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 6, 2011)

@ferre hey those are in hydrotron il post up tommarow the ones in growdan


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## Beansly (Jul 6, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> ok here you go ebb&grow lovers lol 13 orange and purple kush above is x4 600s going into week three what you all think?


That's what I'm talking about! I want a room like THAT someday.
Is that in a tent or is that a room you made/used?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 6, 2011)

Beansly said:


> That's what I'm talking about! I want a room like THAT someday.
> Is that in a tent or is that a room you made/used?


Its a 10x10 growlab tent


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## Beansly (Jul 7, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Its a 10x10 growlab tent


 Looks like your dedicated to the grow my friend. Much love and luck in your grows brother.


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## researchkitty (Jul 7, 2011)

stillgamble said:


> researchkitty said:
> 
> 
> > DONT USE BLEACH. This was discussed in this thread *four* times before already, and determined every time to be not good for Hydroponics.  You can use a little bleach in a spray for a cleaner, but dont go filling up your 55 gallon rez with bleach water then draining it out.
> ...


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## JUSTSILENT (Jul 7, 2011)

okay i found a little extra cash and i am wondering what u guys think. this is a legal grow i assume since both my wife and i have our prop 215 card so technically im legal to grow 16 plants right? also if i am legal would i need to worry about the exhaust outlet being noticed by heat cameras?
well here is what im looking at for my room set up. i am going to go with ebb n gro metod. this is my shopping list for a 10x10 area room 
1. 3- C.A.P. xxxtreme 8in air cooled hid reflector
2. 3- lumatek 600 w 120/240 v hps/mh e- balast
one question with this. when u purchace them seperately what am i really getting?is the hid reflector and balast with the bulb a complete unit? or do i need more parts to cmplete the unit.
3. 1- C.A.P. ebb n gro 3 1/2 gal controller module
4. 16 C.A.P. ebb n gro outer buckets [2 gal]
5. 16-C.A.P. ebb n gro ineer buckets
6. black 1/2 inch tubbling 100 ft
7. thermometer/ humidity reader [hydro thermometer]

i am looking for a used 55 gal drum around town going to put some type of air stone with air pump in resivor and i also need the fittings to connect the flood/ drain hoses to the buckets. now i belive that there is 3 outlets from the controller unit that feed the buckets. what if i install some type of manifold to each of the outlets and then run individual lines to each bucket instead of having to flood one at a time until it gets to your last pot. now these r things i believe i still need but am unsure as to which products to get.
ec/ppm/ph tester. 
a dehumidifier
something to neutralize the odor
how about a water chiller?
i kno that i need some type of plug for my resivor or controller unit that only lets water flow one way?

a comments are greatly appreciated. what am i missing? what can i go without?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 7, 2011)

k so just finish up 24 hours of growdan soak at ph 5.5 and have loaded up x2 buckets to test before I load up the rest, just being super safe not 
to harm them all. one note this growdan is tricky lol but not even as labour intensive as hydrotron  will post up pics when the coast is clear.


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## powerplant74 (Jul 9, 2011)

Just did a few and still finishing up some 3gal pots filled with grodan crutons. Didn't have any issues, like when the plant got top heavy and the whole bucket didn't fall over. The biggest being 5ft+, Worked like a champ can't wait to try it in the ebb.


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## researchkitty (Jul 9, 2011)

powerplant74 said:


> Just did a few and still finishing up some 3gal pots filled with grodan crutons. Didn't have any issues, like when the plant got top heavy and the whole bucket didn't fall over. The biggest being 5ft+, Worked like a champ can't wait to try it in the ebb.


People actually buy those croutons?    Your the first I've seen thats actually used them............. what'd ya think?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2011)

Im useing now been 3 days and loving it so far. No ph issues as of yet


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## researchkitty (Jul 9, 2011)

Keep us posted on how you like them compared to Hydroton, hellraizer30...........


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2011)

will do posting up pics within the hour


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2011)

View attachment 1683738View attachment 1683737View attachment 1683736View attachment 1683735View attachment 1683734View attachment 1683733

here the pics and the meter levels temps are above what I like but not something that is aviodable right now. ph has been rock solid
at 5.8 for days some tips are burned but thats what you get for being gone for to long lol there geting flooded x3 a day after a week
or so il drop it to x2 a day.


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## researchkitty (Jul 9, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> View attachment 1683738View attachment 1683737View attachment 1683736View attachment 1683735View attachment 1683734View attachment 1683733
> 
> here the pics and the meter levels temps are above what I like but not something that is aviodable right now. ph has been rock solid
> at 5.8 for days some tips are burned but thats what you get for being gone for to long lol there geting flooded x3 a day after a week
> or so il drop it to x2 a day.


Real clean lookin and nice! +rep to ya!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2011)

thanks kitty il post up some updates in a week of there progress


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 10, 2011)

well heres a update PH is still rock solid ive never seen ph stability like this, I even cleaned and reset/calibrated my gaurdian and its
still 5.8 crazy stuff this technofora line of nutes are!! AS FOR THE RES the water is crystal clear and no sign of slime, now im not useing
H202 with this run or bleach, this run is with benny that Tech supplies with there full nute line.


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## researchkitty (Jul 10, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> well heres a update PH is still rock solid ive never seen ph stability like this, I even cleaned and reset/calibrated my gaurdian and its
> still 5.8 crazy stuff this technofora line of nutes are!! AS FOR THE RES the water is crystal clear and no sign of slime, now im not useing
> H202 with this run or bleach, this run is with benny that Tech supplies with there full nute line.


If you dont have H2O2, make damn sure the rez is bubbling with bubbles! Otherwise you run many risks....................... H2O2 is awesome at eating dead little chunks of roots so you dont get root rot!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 10, 2011)

im banking on bennys this round but the res has a large pump that run x4 large air stones in the res that come on for 15min every hour


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## tommyo3000 (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm looking at an inline UV sterilizer with 3/4" fittings for my ebb and grow setups... Anyone have any opinions? I'm doing the GH expert line-up, which should only have minimal microbes.. not using subculture at all

http://cgi.ebay.com/UV-9-watt-Clarifier-Sterilizer-Algae-Green-w-Bulb-New-/290584134948?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a82a0524#ht_1946wt_802


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 11, 2011)

I run a uv setup it works good but it kill all bennys,


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## stillgamble (Jul 11, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> well heres a update PH is still rock solid ive never seen ph stability like this, I even cleaned and reset/calibrated my gaurdian and its
> still 5.8 crazy stuff this technofora line of nutes are!! AS FOR THE RES the water is crystal clear and no sign of slime, now im not useing
> H202 with this run or bleach, this run is with benny that Tech supplies with there full nute line.


what bottles ru using from this line up?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 11, 2011)

BC grow/bc bloom/ bc boost/ magical/ thrive alive/ sugar daddy
is the full line up


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 12, 2011)

Ok well I went and did a res dump and cleanup, the res was close to being perfectly clean. Reasons for not going 
2weeks was having a new medium and nutes I want to see how dirty it might have got! So plant look alittle better
But im seeing some yellowing of lower stuff so I added some more magical. Ph still remains rock solid at 5.8 even 
After the dump, fresh water add nutes and blame 5.8 crazy

The AN run is off the hook week 3 and they look like week 4 lovin this one so far, will get pics up asap.


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## researchkitty (Jul 12, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I run a uv setup it works good but it kill all bennys,


Thankfully in hydro, we have no beneficial bacteria. It's just chemicals. In-line UV is safe. It's also expensive and unnecessary, though.

I buy the bottle of algae killer from wal-mart for $5 and just a few drops each week keeps it clean. The bottle should last you a year for normal sized grows. If you have any other buildup problems, you probably need to clean your Hydroton. Shit is dirty from the bag, takes a bunch of baths to get it from silt coated pebbles to pebbles. Nothing else should ever be a problem in your buckets, lines, or system.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 12, 2011)

hey kitty can you post up a pic of the algae killer bottle so I can make shure i get the right stuff.


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## tommyo3000 (Jul 12, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> Thankfully in hydro, we have no beneficial bacteria. It's just chemicals. In-line UV is safe. It's also expensive and unnecessary, though.
> 
> I buy the bottle of algae killer from wal-mart for $5 and just a few drops each week keeps it clean. The bottle should last you a year for normal sized grows. If you have any other buildup problems, you probably need to clean your Hydroton. Shit is dirty from the bag, takes a bunch of baths to get it from silt coated pebbles to pebbles. Nothing else should ever be a problem in your buckets, lines, or system.


A lot of people go for beneficial bacteria and fungi in hydro.. Many additives contain some living things.. I try to keep my systems sterile with bleach, but I want a less hands-on approach to sterilization. I like ozone, but UV is cheap. Here is a 9watt sterilizer for $35 shipped http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290584134948&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1952wt_802

Pythium, fusarium, and phytophthora are concerns in hydro.. Bacteria can grow in tubing.. 

A sand or charcoal slow filter would be even cheaper than UV...


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## researchkitty (Jul 12, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> hey kitty can you post up a pic of the algae killer bottle so I can make shure i get the right stuff.


They only sell one at walmart, it says "Algae Destroyer" on it.  About the size of a small bottle of shampoo, near the fish.......... I know there's some pics of the bottle in the grow journal but I wont be to the grow spot for 2 more days so that'll have to do


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## researchkitty (Jul 12, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> A lot of people go for beneficial bacteria and fungi in hydro.. Many additives contain some living things.. I try to keep my systems sterile with bleach, but I want a less hands-on approach to sterilization. I like ozone, but UV is cheap. Here is a 9watt sterilizer for $35 shipped http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290584134948&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1952wt_802
> 
> Pythium, fusarium, and phytophthora are concerns in hydro.. Bacteria can grow in tubing..
> 
> A sand or charcoal slow filter would be even cheaper than UV...


Really? Show me some beneficial bacteria for hydro?  I've *never* seen it...........


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 13, 2011)

Should I have any problem with this cap system? I'm planning to use it for my mother plants. Please let me know before I pull the trigger Friday morning.

I'm planning to get a factory refurbished system.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 14, 2011)

Just make shure you get the check valves they dont come with the system


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 15, 2011)

I just ordered the system. What are these check valves??? Where do I get them?


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## Ferredoxin (Jul 17, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> I just ordered the system. What are these check valves??? Where do I get them?


CAP told me the check valves were just a temp fix for some units, and that my system does not need them. Just FYI.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 17, 2011)

hmm well there a nice fail safe to the system. 
@horn you have to call cap for them


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 17, 2011)

Hoping the refurb unit comes with ones... I guess I'll find out. It basically just keeps the water from being vacuumed back out of the 55 gallon drum?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 17, 2011)

well it work like this water is entering the res from the command bucket, when the pump shuts off water runs back down to the C bucket and trips the float switch
cause the pump to repeat over and over and burn up the pump. check valve eliminates the water from going back down the line.


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## hempdaddy (Jul 19, 2011)

it's been a while since i was on this thread. because i don't have the time to set up this thing

whoever designed the plastic fittings, doesn't know what they are doing. the grommets and connectors feel like they are out of spec; backside of grommets slips off easily it's not even funny. the straight connectors are the worst, they have a huge bulge right in the middle, there's no freaking way in hell they will go in the grommet hole

what a headache...


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## researchkitty (Jul 19, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> well it work like this water is entering the res from the command bucket, when the pump shuts off water runs back down to the C bucket and trips the float switch
> cause the pump to repeat over and over and burn up the pump. check valve eliminates the water from going back down the line.


If this happens, your 2nd to lowest float needs to be raised 1/2".

As for the water continually dripping back to the bucket, your lines are too long. You need:

http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134868

And that will fix the problem for $3. Mount it close to the bucket, not the rez. Enjoy


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 19, 2011)

@hemp I have three ebb system with no issues but if this does happen just replace the hose you should be doing this every other grow anyhow due
to build up.


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## MoJobud (Jul 19, 2011)

Hellraizer, how are the crutons doing? Not really liking how the hail is. Retains way too much moisture and I am convinced nothing is better for the ebb&grow system than hydroton. I like the rapid growth you get from watering multiple times through the days. Just the action of filling and draining forces more oxygen to the roots.


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## scotts (Jul 20, 2011)

Hey I have an ebb and gro system with 22 buckets and I feed my plants 3 times a day at 12,12 and 6. Is that enough?any feed back on my page would be good. I am new to the site so hopefully I am using it correctly. If not let me know the best way to ask a question. thx


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## hempdaddy (Jul 20, 2011)

green trees patented this design back in 1992 and held on to it for 17 years.
no other company could copy it or make improvements on the designs and whatnot.

just speaks volume about the hypocrisy in US patent and copyright laws.



i got couple of hangnails from inserting the fittings..hurts like hell.


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## researchkitty (Jul 20, 2011)

scotts said:


> Hey I have an ebb and gro system with 22 buckets and I feed my plants 3 times a day at 12,12 and 6. Is that enough?any feed back on my page would be good. I am new to the site so hopefully I am using it correctly. If not let me know the best way to ask a question. thx


Water your plants when the lights turn on. After the fourth week of flower, water them when the lights turn on and then 6 hours after as well. That's it. Some strains may like more watering, some less, thats your discretion as the gardener.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 20, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> Hellraizer, how are the crutons doing? Not really liking how the hail is. Retains way too much moisture and I am convinced nothing is better for the ebb&grow system than hydroton. I like the rapid growth you get from watering multiple times through the days. Just the action of filling and draining forces more oxygen to the roots.


there doing great will post pics later today!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 20, 2011)

scotts said:


> Hey I have an ebb and gro system with 22 buckets and I feed my plants 3 times a day at 12,12 and 6. Is that enough?any feed back on my page would be good. I am new to the site so hopefully I am using it correctly. If not let me know the best way to ask a question. thx


I flood x3 time during lights on through the hole 12/12 cycle each flood is 30min. with hydrotron
with grodan/crutons during 12/12 im flooding x3 time at lights on for 15min. 
ask any Q you want and il answer the best I can.


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## drgreentm (Jul 20, 2011)

i flood 4x lights on and once 6 hours after lights off and my 2 strains are loving it so far, no drooping or anything like that (with hydroton)


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 20, 2011)

View attachment 1699637View attachment 1699634View attachment 1699633View attachment 1699632View attachment 1699630View attachment 1699629View attachment 1699628

heres the AN run G/M/B with big bud and B52 bactira control is H2o2
week #4 things are looking good no sign of any issues, ppms are 1100
PH has been rock solid at 5.8
one thing ive noticed is by setting your Ph at 5.6 and not adjusting
till it hits 6.1 I dont have to add PH down for over a week and theres
no slime build up cause by the PH down, just some food for thought lol.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 20, 2011)

View attachment 1699653View attachment 1699652View attachment 1699650View attachment 1699648View attachment 1699647View attachment 1699646View attachment 1699645

heres the technoflora/bc with now H202
starting week 2 with crutons, ph has been at 5.8 and stable
ppms are at 1150 there looking good, water temps have been 
high 74F and no issue or signs of slime.


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## stillgamble (Jul 21, 2011)

looking good hellraizer. how high r ur lights? and do u ever move them through out the grow?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 21, 2011)

stillgamble said:


> looking good hellraizer. how high r ur lights? and do u ever move them through out the grow?


Nope I leave them all the way up, I could drop them but they get all the light they need i think.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 21, 2011)

Just thought I'd let people know the Refurb unit I got off of E-bay had a.... whatever valve so water couldn't flow backwards.


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## endogarden (Jul 22, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Just thought I'd let people know the Refurb unit I got off of E-bay had a.... whatever valve so water couldn't flow backwards.


A "check" valve?


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jul 22, 2011)

Ha yeah, Check valve.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 24, 2011)

hello all been pondering how to get a true 3/4 upgrade and I think im on to it.
parts to get are as follows,
monster ebb control box and 3/4 cap gromits and 3/4 pvc and conection.

step #1 place the control box at ground level.
#2 build a platform that the buckets sit on to raise the buckets to
the control box heigth
#3 drill out the 1/2 holes to 3/4 on the 2gal buckets
#4 im not going to use the strait or tee 1/2 press fittings instead use
3/4 90 with the outer part pointed down.
#5 run 3/4 pvc under the platform and tie into the 90s that are pointed
down.

by doing this there will 0 water left in the buckets and and flood up and down 
super fast. the only standing water that will be left will be in the lines under
the platform thus redusing water temp bye eliminating light right on the hoses.
will also add 3gal to the system, as long as the control box is level with the 
buckets there will be no floods. Ive come to a conclusion that this slime is breeding
in the lines that are right under the lights then cycle later to the res, raising temps
and reeking havok.

update on AN with hydrotron week 4 no sign of slime issues with h202 control.

update on BC with crutons, guys I can home from a day of fishing and the water
was 75f cant seem to get it down so a chiller is to be ordered monday. but all was
well infact they look like there loving the warm water lol in all PH hasnt moved from 
5.8 in days. sundays res mantenace and nute change day, Il get pics up next week.


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## researchkitty (Jul 24, 2011)

Hell, I hesitate to write this, but your going all about this wrong. If your water reservoir temperature is 75(f) you need to fix that.  A water chiller isnt the best way. Why is the water being hot? Probably because your room is too hot and your lights are inadequately cooled. Fix that and then you have everything else in the right range.

To go to 3/4" intakes from the 1/2" intakes already just swap out the parts and tubing. There's no reason for this, though. The extra water at the bottom of the buckets that you dont drain out is meant to be there to assist with any roots that come through the buckets and provides humidity to the Hydroton.

The systems work as designed, no tinkering or weird stuff necessary.

At least, that's what I've gathered from your post. Cheers.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 24, 2011)

My res tanks are out of the room with the lights, and that temp in the room with the res tanks is 72f.
In the tents its 79 to 80f everytime the system cycles the temp goes up from the warmer water in the
Lines plus the pump to. As for proper cooling of lights ive got the best you can buy 8in vented hood
With 85pound carbon scrubber and vortex 8in sound like a jet engine with all the air moving, each tent
Has one of these. Outside the tents in the room is a intank 8in bring in fresh air to cool, each tent exhaust
Outside. So its imposable to use cool air to cool my water and a chiller is a must.

As for standing water it works well with hydrotron but not growdan and im switching to that.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 24, 2011)

well I broke down and got a chiller, got a 1/2 hp aqua chill will be here in a week. did a res change on the res with BC and there in very very little residue on the 
tubes and stuff, still not using anything chemical to deal with slime and temps are in the 74F range, just going to let it ride for a week.

anybody else got pics of there ebbs in action I cant be the only one here?


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## drgreentm (Jul 24, 2011)

i got a few from tonight right when the lights went out, things are looking pretty good, week 4 flower.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 24, 2011)

looking great drg any slime issue?


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## med4u (Jul 25, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> well I broke down and got a chiller, got a 1/2 hp aqua chill will be here in a week. did a res change on the res with BC and there in very very little residue on the
> tubes and stuff, still not using anything chemical to deal with slime and temps are in the 74F range, just going to let it ride for a week.
> 
> anybody else got pics of there ebbs in action I cant be the only one here?


 
hey hr,whaddup,just thought id throw one out there,i had temp issues,72,73 so i moved the res closer to the central air duct and put a deflector on the grate so it blows right on the res,brought her right back down to 68,69 worked a treat,if your duct is up higher you could run some flex duct down to the res,just a thought ,sounds like you will soon have it under control at any rate peace out


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 25, 2011)

I ran a 4in fan on the res for a week with
No positive effect


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## drgreentm (Jul 25, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> looking great drg any slime issue?


 thanks man, no slime issues at all so far. a little buildup from nutes but nothing extreme, this will be my second run so after this i will be cleaning thouroughly and replacing all the tubing.


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## collective gardener (Jul 28, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> My res tanks are out of the room with the lights, and that temp in the room with the res tanks is 72f.
> In the tents its 79 to 80f everytime the system cycles the temp goes up from the warmer water in the
> Lines plus the pump to. As for proper cooling of lights ive got the best you can buy 8in vented hood
> With 85pound carbon scrubber and vortex 8in sound like a jet engine with all the air moving, each tent
> ...


Hellraizer,

The op looks real good. May I suggest that when you switch to rockwool you flush heavily once/week with pure RO water. Rockwool tends to hold onto salts. This is compounded in an ebb and flow op. We top feed our rockwool and after a week the waste drainage is around 200ppm higher than what we are feeding with. We flush every week. Good luck to you!

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 28, 2011)

thanks for the advise will do


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## researchkitty (Jul 29, 2011)

Just another reason to stick with Hydroton.


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## med4u (Jul 29, 2011)

sunleaves grow rock, an all round superior medium,you'll never look back


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## researchkitty (Jul 29, 2011)

med4u said:


> sunleaves grow rock, an all round superior medium,you'll never look back


What's the difference between them and Hydroton?


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## med4u (Jul 29, 2011)

their cheaper,easier to clean,they are fired shale and do not retain any residual antigens that can be absorbed into hydroton after a few uses,they also contain silica for better plant health,their shape allows for easier exchange of gases,and have more surface area for better water retention


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 29, 2011)

il look into that medium but as of yet theres now il effect or issue with growdan and in the end im just going to throw it away!
if it was just alittle hydrotron it would be fine to use and clean but using 30 buckets of it f-that


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## drgreentm (Jul 29, 2011)

med4u said:


> their cheaper,easier to clean,they are fired shale and do not retain any residual antigens that can be absorbed into hydroton after a few uses,they also contain silica for better plant health,their shape allows for easier exchange of gases,and have more surface area for better water retention


 i like, going to look into it as well.


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## researchkitty (Jul 29, 2011)

Thats my problem with rockwool. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. You guys needlessly throw away money every harvest for what benefit? Having to flush salts out? Pfffft. =P


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## dbkick (Jul 29, 2011)

So yeah I'm about to set up an cap ebb monster (if I can get the dyna-roks clean) . I've already run into issues and I haven't even taken it out of the box yet :/
So anyway the roks are kinda small and I'm worried about the tubing plugging in the buckets, I've decided I'll probably just do a thin layer of hydroton on the bottom of the bucket then fill with these expensive ass roks. One thing thats come to mind is flooding, fidy gallons of water or so is quite a bit if something went wrong, I've been advised to install a check valve but I'm not real sure how that goes, my res is like 15 feet from the control bucket. I haven't a clue as to how to do this right down to how many times a day to flood, I guess thats dependent on medium used and nutrients but I dunno. I suppose I'll spend endless hours (or at least moments) looking for clues. Any words of wisedom for me in this project are most helpful and your time is valuable to me!
Thanks and hopefully I can get this thing going.


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## researchkitty (Jul 29, 2011)

If you use hydroton on bottom of the rocks, they will just mix later and be impossible to separate. Well, not impossible, just hella hard and annoying! The rocks dont touch tubing, so there's zero chance it could clog the tube. The rocks sit inside the inner bucket, not the bottom bucket.  Inner bucket isnt touching any tube.


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## dbkick (Jul 29, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> If you use hydroton on bottom of the rocks, they will just mix later and be impossible to separate. Well, not impossible, just hella hard and annoying! The rocks dont touch tubing, so there's zero chance it could clog the tube. The rocks sit inside the inner bucket, not the bottom bucket.  Inner bucket isnt touching any tube.


 Hi kitty, these rocks are small enough to go thru the holes in the inner bucket where I DID intend to put my roks! yes mixed but still usable, I could take a big loss in the roks and sift the small ones out, I did get a couple cubic foot extra. at the hydro store earlier the dude and I were trying to come up with something and we looked at the top fitting for a flood table, the drain fitting, it seems to pop right on the end of the barbed fitting that goes in the OUTER bucket KITTY. so anyway, where the fuck was I?? oh yeah, sparking one.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 29, 2011)

kitty not saying hydrotron isnt the way to go just tired of washing over 300L at a wack!! yes I would like to save cash being that I already have
the rock it that I dont have time to f with it.


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## dbkick (Jul 29, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> kitty not saying hydrotron isnt the way to go just tired of washing over 300L at a wack!! yes I would like to save cash being that I already have
> the rock it that I dont have time to f with it.


 I spent two hours cleaning rok that cost so much it should be spotless and still I have no clean rok!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 29, 2011)

I hear you try 300l of it shit make me want to shoot myself lol


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## dbkick (Jul 29, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I hear you try 300l of it shit make me want to shoot myself lol


 I'm probably better off tumbling this rok dry and taking the loss , then rinsing it again and again and again, I've actually got an old pump and a filter running in a bucket that has a airstone under the roks , I have no idea if it will work or not, any-fucking-things gotta help, we busted out the pressure washer on them and it only made matters worse it seemed :/
300 fucking liters.... I don't think so. I was originally thinking these roks cleaned easier than hydroton and then I realized they were just as stubborn and harder to deal with (due to the flakes and specks) than hydroton.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 29, 2011)

o my bad 300l of hydrotron never tryed the rock your talking about


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## dbkick (Jul 29, 2011)

fuck I just wrote a couple paragraphs about feeding and not really having anyone here that runs the same medium so I dunno what to do and then I hit a gaming mouse button, probably melee and wiped it


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## dbkick (Jul 29, 2011)

but this shit absorbs 150 percent of its weght, I figure maybe I should follow some medium with a similar absorbancy, but drainage is another thing, I don't have a clue and I just took 3 mg of xans and have to set this shit up tomorrow, I should be a tweaker instead then I'd just have to invest in lab shit and safe rooms and shit....I do believe the xans are kicking in , it may have been 5 mg


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## dbkick (Jul 29, 2011)

it goes from light and dusty as fuck to heavy and dirty as fuck with 2 hours rinsing, I WILL get this shit clean though if I gotta take it to a professional, clean and the right size


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## dbkick (Jul 29, 2011)

oh right I remember........no....no I don't. man it was something important...let me think....right ok, has anyone transplanted a aero vegged plant into ebb and grow buckets with good results and if so what were the steps to placing some pretty long ass roots into a 5 gallon INNER bucket (kitty) by kinda just covering in roks?someone once mentioned a spiraling of the roots(long assed roots) gradually covered with rocks up to where it should be,


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 30, 2011)

Lol to funny but yes I have bro, I had foot and half long roots and plant in rock with no issue other than slow
Growth for about a week.


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## collective gardener (Jul 30, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> Thats my problem with rockwool. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. You guys needlessly throw away money every harvest for what benefit? Having to flush salts out? Pfffft. =P


RK,

I have the same issue with washing and sterilizing medium...$$$$$$$$$$. Time=Money. Our rockwool cost for 1 - 8' x 8' tray is around $150.00. Figure the time it takes to clean all that medium, plus the time it takes to plant 50 pots (rather than just place one block on top of another), and clean all the containers. Personally, I'll pay the money (which is around 1% the value of that tray) and spend that day sailing instead. My friend grows in rockwool croutons and throws away the pot and everything each harvest. He has several paid employees at the grow and calculated that it was cheaper to buy new containers than to pay his crew to thoroughly clean and sterilize them. 

All that aside, your grow looks great, kitty. Always nice to see another high wattage grower living the dream.

Shit...I shouldn't even be here. I'm a top feeder. Came by to check out my friend, HellRaizer's, grow and got sucked into posting. Cheers, Ebb & Flow Peeps.

CG


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 30, 2011)

Ok so ive came to a decion about starting a journal to place photos and make it easyer for friends and folks
To follow, will still maintain in this thread just going to post my progress in mine. Il shoot a link to it here for
All who want to follow.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 30, 2011)

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/451539-hellraizers-10x10-x2-tents-running.html

ok here it is come on by check it out


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## MoJobud (Jul 30, 2011)

For those that like growing in hydroton but hate washing it, try using Hydrocorn. Started using it on my new run and so far it's working really well. Hydrocorn is similar clay pebbles but cleans off in half the time only because I am convinced that hydroton from Germany is handled and bagged too often. I do not reuse my clay pebbles so I can't tell you how the reuseability is.


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## guati86 (Jul 30, 2011)

Whats up room. I just have a question for all of you. I am at the end of my first harvest. I expected a lil more but i cant complain. How much space in between the buckets and how many and what watt lights are ideal for the 12 pot with no add ons. The flowering room is 6x6 by 8ft tall.


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## med4u (Jul 30, 2011)

not sure what your looking for but i myself would scrog a 6x6 keeping the buckets tight,i did 9 plants in a 3x4 with a 2 ft vert on each end and managed to get 6.9 lbs of 6 to 8 inch colas wet,ended up with just over 2lbs of pure buds with a 1000w hps good luck


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 30, 2011)

guati86 said:


> Whats up room. I just have a question for all of you. I am at the end of my first harvest. I expected a lil more but i cant complain. How much space in between the buckets and how many and what watt lights are ideal for the 12 pot with no add ons. The flowering room is 6x6 by 8ft tall.


Well for ideal space and if you going to do large plant and they will get big in a short time. 12 for a 10x10 space.
But 6x6 is going to be small so remember not to veg them long. I like 600 and 1every 4x4 area


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 30, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> For those that like growing in hydroton but hate washing it, try using Hydrocorn. Started using it on my new run and so far it's working really well. Hydrocorn is similar clay pebbles but cleans off in half the time only because I am convinced that hydroton from Germany is handled and bagged too often. I do not reuse my clay pebbles so I can't tell you how the reuseability is.


Hey mojo can you post a link to this medium?


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## med4u (Jul 30, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> kitty not saying hydrotron isnt the way to go just tired of washing over 300L at a wack!! yes I would like to save cash being that I already have
> the rock it that I dont have time to f with it.


6 inch net pots in 5 gal bucks,less rock,less money,less cleaning,less weight, less allround hassle....more gas exchange,more room for roots,more ease of cleaning for reuse, i know there are some great seasoned growers out there that are set in their ways,i try to save time and money and simplify as much as possible,always room for inovation, will be subbed in on your grow good luck


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 30, 2011)

Thanks med4u


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## dbkick (Jul 30, 2011)

I took back hydrocorn and exchanged it for dyna-roks. Now about that issue I was having, my hydro dude pulled out these cirlces cut out of screen as an idea of keeping my roks in the inner bucket, this seems like a good idea but the screens he had were like 4 inches round, I need one the size of the 5 gallon inner bucket and I'll place it on the bottom. I know jack about screen material but just looked at home depot and their screen products aren't having any msds reports, doesn't say what its made of but I'm thinking it has to be pretty safe and will serve my purpose well, again any and all input on this is great, thanks.


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## dbkick (Jul 30, 2011)

just ran WAY down south to pick up some earwax and left a garden hose sprinkler up under a bunch of dyna-roks in a tote with a pump on the top side of the roks to pump out water, this wasn't verty helpful :/
The water on top was crystal clear but give it a little stir and its mucked. I felt sure the process would work but it appears the shit has to be stirred frequently then pumped clear....repeat....repeat...repeat.... this shit is worse than hydroton :/


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## researchkitty (Jul 30, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I hear you try 300l of it shit make me want to shoot myself lol


I clean 1792 Litres of Hydroton every 60 days. Then again, I have (14) 1000w lamps, too and pleeeeeeeeeeenty of buckets! The real secret to Hydroton washing is just to dump it all in a 55 gallon blue rez, fill it with water, rinse it around, drain it out. Then I wash about 50 gallons of Hydroton in about 15 minutes. Pretty easy labor!



dbkick said:


> I'm probably better off tumbling this rok dry and taking the loss , then rinsing it again and again and again, I've actually got an old pump and a filter running in a bucket that has a airstone under the roks , I have no idea if it will work or not, any-fucking-things gotta help, we busted out the pressure washer on them and it only made matters worse it seemed :/
> 300 fucking liters.... I don't think so. I was originally thinking these roks cleaned easier than hydroton and then I realized they were just as stubborn and harder to deal with (due to the flakes and specks) than hydroton.


Ouch man, that stinks.  If the rocks are small enough to go through the inner buckets, then the rocks are too small to use....... Perhaps the place you bought it from gave you the wrong size?


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## dbkick (Jul 30, 2011)

Kitty, I bought the most coarse they had, I paid 177 bux for 4.5 liters I'm damn sure gonna use them.....once anyway, if I gotta toss them somewhere in the yard after they prove themselves bullshit , if not I'll continue to use them, I think the screening idea is a good one. if I had it to do again I'm sure I'd just go with the hydrocorn because I intend to use a silica additive anyway and thats the only real benefit of these diatom roks other than they absorb 150 percent their weight in water which may count for something or other.


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## researchkitty (Jul 30, 2011)

dbkick said:


> Kitty, I bought the most coarse they had, I paid 177 bux for 4.5 liters I'm damn sure gonna use them.....once anyway, if I gotta toss them somewhere in the yard after they prove themselves bullshit , if not I'll continue to use them, I think the screening idea is a good one. if I had it to do again I'm sure I'd just go with the hydrocorn because I intend to use a silica additive anyway and thats the only real benefit of these diatom roks other than they absorb 150 percent their weight in water which may count for something or other.


I dont wanna sound like a hater, but your trying to reinvent the wheel..... $177 for 4.5 litres of whatever stuff you have that you shouldnt be using cant be correct, a 50L bag of Hydroton is $35. In trying to avoid Hydroton, you're creating one hell of a mess. Silica additive?! Huh?!!


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## dbkick (Jul 30, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> I dont wanna sound like a hater, but your trying to reinvent the wheel..... $177 for 4.5 litres of whatever stuff you have that you shouldnt be using cant be correct, a 50L bag of Hydroton is $35. In trying to avoid Hydroton, you're creating one hell of a mess. Silica additive?! Huh?!!


 Kitty, its diatom rock, I know hydroton very well and am not real impressed with it, this rock is suppose to be superior and slowly release silicas to the plants, those in turn strengthen cell walls and shit making your plants defenses against pest and disease not to mention bigger stronger stalks. products like rhinoskin or silica blast or the one I'm going with pro-tekt, this grow is gonna be all dyna-gro stuff right down to the rocks. I got extremely tired of AN .


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## dbkick (Jul 30, 2011)

oh and that was 4.5 cubic feet , not liters


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## dbkick (Jul 30, 2011)

question, can you use a 90 degree elbow in the lower grommets that feed the buckets OR a straight fitting?.these setup instructions are a little weak although they do state a straight fitting goes there but since gravity is the only factor I wouldn't see why not other than it may slow draining down a bit.


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## jdmcwestevo (Jul 31, 2011)

pluto420 said:


> *I have been trying to find a good thread about the cap e & g system but haven't been able to find one yet so thought I would start this and see if I can get a good discussion going and compile a good overall document on the system.
> 
> If you are using the cap e & g system please give your feedback to the following questions and feel free to add anything else of interest you can think of.* *
> 
> ...


ok first off i have extensive experience with ebb and flow in both trays and buckets. I have used this system as well as the greentrees. now to answer your questions.

1. i currently use shredded coco, which i am trying for the first time, and so far i love it. i used to use hydroton with good success. Reason for changing is the ease of coco, and much better vigor. Hydroton is also a pain in the ass to clean.
2. i made some upgrades like the tiles etc. but the new greentrees system has incorporated larger diameter hoses, raised buckets for drainage, adjustable floats, basically all the things that needed to be addressed have been handled by greentrees.
3. i used a separate room for dedicated veg and moved the inner buckets to my dedicated flower room. i have also vegged and flowered in the same system at my other garden. i use mainly house and garden, with some additives from botanicare. your feed schedule is dependent upon your plants i tailor my nute strength etc. based on how my plants react.
4. i change the res every 5-7 days
5. house and garden, but i am doing a test for a new company in the UK 
6. the CAP bucket system is complete garbage. their design is flawed and old. i burned out 3 brain buckets in one cycle, and my friend burned 2 in one month. i was lucky and caught it or i would have lost my whole crop which is 96 plants and 20k watts (Medical Collective grows)

BOTTOMLINE if you wanna use this system i would recommend getting the one from greentrees they started it and they have the best most up to date system. i can get you a great deal on a system if u want and drop ship it, i have my own store. if you have any questions i'll check in from time to time to answer them.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

You can use whatever you want in types of fitting 90s strait or a tee.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> ok first off i have extensive experience with ebb and flow in both trays and buckets. I have used this system as well as the greentrees. now to answer your questions.
> 
> 1. i currently use shredded coco, which i am trying for the first time, and so far i love it. i used to use hydroton with good success. Reason for changing is the ease of coco, and much better vigor. Hydroton is also a pain in the ass to clean.
> 2. i made some upgrades like the tiles etc. but the new greentrees system has incorporated larger diameter hoses, raised buckets for drainage, adjustable floats, basically all the things that needed to be addressed have been handled by greentrees.
> ...


Well Il argue that its junk im running three for over 2 years now and friend
That have been for longer and at least a dozen on riu and not one has problems
Like yours so not calling bs. Just i dont agree


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## jdmcwestevo (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Well Il argue that its junk im running three for over 2 years now and friend
> That have been for longer and at least a dozen on riu and not one has problems
> Like yours so not calling bs. Just i dont agree


im glad yours worked great. i just had such a horrible experience as well as my good friend and a few customers that i had setup rooms for them. back then i had talked to them and they said they had a bad run of brains, and it was fixed. i went back to greentrees, and their system is much more complete. all the issues have been handled. 

everyone has their opinion, but CAP customer support also blows even if you have a store lol. i just got a 8 inch lumenaire hood from them that didnt have the power cord or anything. i got a full pallet 24 hoods i believe i waited 3 months to arrive lol


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

This is no lie they do suck at costomer support for shure, but il look at the greentrees one but the one that gives a warm
And fussy for me is the titan flow&grow, hey jd can you post up some pics your op sounds impresive and would like to
Maybe learn a thing or to


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## jdmcwestevo (Jul 31, 2011)

ya hang on i got some pictures of a 20k watt one i put up a month ago it was a nightmare for sure, but they are doing well now. had a heat issue because of shitty sunlight supply hoods, which half of them were used and came with no v hooks i bought them supposed to be brand new. lol they are retarded too u would think when you order 24 hoods and 1000w ballast they would take care of u right? WRONG. anyway pictures coming.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> You can use whatever you want in types of fitting 90s strait or a tee.


 Thanks man, should be up and running tomorrow although I probably only got 3 buckets worth of roks cleaned, I'll clean the rest tomorrow but may do three in hydrocorn and three in dyna roks.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

Dam bro min hoods are sunlight supply hoods theres a like a page back to my journal if you want to check it out


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

dbkick said:


> Thanks man, should be up and running tomorrow although I probably only got 3 buckets worth of roks cleaned, I'll clean the rest tomorrow but may do three in hydrocorn and three in dyna roks.


i think from what kitty is saying we are putting to much into cleaning the rock, maybe just a quick wash and rinse is all
It needs, but im looking into a jewlers tumbler it will fit gal of rock at a time


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> i think from what kitty is saying we are putting to much into cleaning the rock, maybe just a quick wash and rinse is all
> It needs, but im looking into a jewlers tumbler it will fit gal of rock at a time


 I'm talking initial cleaning, anything after that does come pretty easy but those things sure come in dusty as fuck.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

Yah right out of the bag just quick rinse cus it seems you can never get it perfectly clean


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

I have some thats pretty clean, took hours of running water into it, man I've got so many question about using this new system, like when to flood, how long, do you drain immediately after a flood is complete or as close as the timer allows anyway. I intend to run one bigger (the fill pump at 1000 gph) and a smaller drain pump(350 gph) but with a much better max head than the 8 foot or so these stock cap ones come with, kinda weak considering the price of the system.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

on another subject I went to home depot and got a vinyl covered polyester screening to contain the small roks, I think this will work well.Its chemically inert as far as i know.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

Ive got a pic of what I set my timers to flood and how long to flood. In my journal, any ? You have ask im pretty
Up to speed on most the issue.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

whats the link?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/451539-hellraizers-10x10-x2-tents-running.html

here you go


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## jdmcwestevo (Jul 31, 2011)

so here is one of my grows i have going on right now. initially it was designed to be a 20k watt flower room with a 4k watt veg room. 96 buckets in the flower room with 48 in the veg for a perpetual harvest. we had some complications because i wanted to try some new things like the CAP dual trigger electric panel which is meh, the sunlight supply hoods which blow compared to CAP lumenaires. It is a sealed room with supplemental CO2 from 2 20lb tanks with sentinel fuzzy logic controllers. It is cooled by a 2 head split system LG 2 ton A/c. for the 5 hoods in the row there is one 8" 735 CFM valueline fan pushing and one pulling. i have 2 big carbon filters with 12" valueline fans i believe like 1100 CFM or so. i also have a bunch of oscillating fans in the room to keep air moving. these pictures are from my cell phone i had when we were still building, but gives you a good idea of this design. i'll post pictures of my 2 other rooms i just finshed both of them are 20k watt grows as well. one is with all mellonhead hoods and CAN Fans and quantum ballast. the other is with all CAP stuff. i'll start some journals too when i get time.


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## collective gardener (Jul 31, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> ok first off i have extensive experience with ebb and flow in both trays and buckets. I have used this system as well as the greentrees. now to answer your questions.
> 
> 1. i currently use shredded coco, which i am trying for the first time, and so far i love it. i used to use hydroton with good success. Reason for changing is the ease of coco, and much better vigor. Hydroton is also a pain in the ass to clean.
> 2. i made some upgrades like the tiles etc. but the new greentrees system has incorporated larger diameter hoses, raised buckets for drainage, adjustable floats, basically all the things that needed to be addressed have been handled by greentrees.
> ...


How bout a couple pics of that 20K op?

edit: oops...see it. Thanks.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

you know......if I had 3 20kw grows.....I don't think I'd be on this silly little forum boasting about it let alone posting any photos. But most certainly +rep for balls.
Ah I see you say something about "medical collective grow" my bad, carry on.


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## MoJobud (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey mojo can you post a link to this medium?


http://www.hydroshack.com/gl-hydrocorn-50-liter-bag-vcbpglcorn.htm

It's larger than hydroton, lighter as well. Seriously cleans off in a good dunk and a rinse. My res stays dust free so far.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> so here is one of my grows i have going on right now. initially it was designed to be a 20k watt flower room with a 4k watt veg room. 96 buckets in the flower room with 48 in the veg for a perpetual harvest. we had some complications because i wanted to try some new things like the CAP dual trigger electric panel which is meh, the sunlight supply hoods which blow compared to CAP lumenaires. It is a sealed room with supplemental CO2 from 2 20lb tanks with sentinel fuzzy logic controllers. It is cooled by a 2 head split system LG 2 ton A/c. for the 5 hoods in the row there is one 8" 735 CFM valueline fan pushing and one pulling. i have 2 big carbon filters with 12" valueline fans i believe like 1100 CFM or so. i also have a bunch of oscillating fans in the room to keep air moving. these pictures are from my cell phone i had when we were still building, but gives you a good idea of this design. i'll post pictures of my 2 other rooms i just finshed both of them are 20k watt grows as well. one is with all mellonhead hoods and CAN Fans and quantum ballast. the other is with all CAP stuff. i'll start some journals too when i get time. View attachment 1713596View attachment 1713597View attachment 1713598View attachment 1713599View attachment 1713600


Nice setup bet the power bill on that is crazy


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## jdmcwestevo (Jul 31, 2011)

ya with industrial power i think the last bill was somewhere around 2k. in my other building it is shared power and the bill for the building gets divided up based on your sq ft. hahahaha my power bill for 20k watts and 4 tons of a/c is like $400 ahahha ROFLMAO pretty funny stuff. i'll post my other setup its much cleaner than that one like i said that is my nightmare room everything that could go wrong did lol.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

ok then, can anyone show me a detailed shot of their reservoir lid? I'm not understand how this goes together, they have a "special" 90 degree barbed fitting that the instructions say to place that inside the lid with the hole in the elbow facing down, and then hook tubing up from the fill pump to that elbow, my question is how do you connect tubing to the topside of the elbow that actually pumps to the control bucket?


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## researchkitty (Jul 31, 2011)

dbkick said:


> I'm talking initial cleaning, anything after that does come pretty easy but those things sure come in dusty as fuck.


Another easy fix. 

Tools required:

Garden Hose with water
Screwdriver

1.) Poke bag of hydroton at the bottom with the screwdriver.

2.) Insert garden hose in top of hydroton. Turn on hose.

3.) Come back in 10 minutes.

Done!


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## researchkitty (Jul 31, 2011)

dbkick said:


> ok then, can anyone show me a detailed shot of their reservoir lid? I'm not understand how this goes together, they have a "special" 90 degree barbed fitting that the instructions say to place that inside the lid with the hole in the elbow facing down, and then hook tubing up from the fill pump to that elbow, my question is how do you connect tubing to the topside of the elbow that actually pumps to the control bucket?


Got a picture of the actual problem? Much easier to help


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

View attachment 1714339View attachment 1714337ok DB hope this helps


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## researchkitty (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> View attachment 1714339View attachment 1714337ok DB hope this helps



Why are there even fittings being used? Just use tube, one to the pump, other to the top. All of those 90 degree elbows and fittings are totally unnecessary.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> Another easy fix.
> 
> Tools required:
> 
> ...


oh god no, you're idea of clean and mine must be two different things! but I did use that process TOO. my roks are pretty clean if you don't shake them up much :\


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## drgreentm (Jul 31, 2011)

mine is set up a bit different, the "special" 90 elbow pops through the lid from underneath and you have to put the hose on the top of that with a hose clamp on it (see pic 1) so that when the pump kicks on water falls back to the res (see pic 2) now when the pump kicks off the little hole in the 90 will break the siphon to the controller so it doesnt continue to fill when the pump kicks off.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> View attachment 1714339View attachment 1714337ok DB hope this helps


 hellraizer yeah I think I see what you've done, you've taken a straight fitting with a short piece of tubing and the "special" vacuum break elbow below that, I thought from the instructions it said to place the vacuum break elbow in the grommet but that must not be the case since you can't fit a piece of tubing to the topside of the elbow because its too short, thanks man,


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> mine is set up a bit different, the "special" 90 elbow pops through the lid from underneath and you have to put the hose on the top of that with a hose clamp on it (see pic 1) so that when the pump kicks on water falls back to the res (see pic 2) now when the pump kicks off the little hole in the 90 will break the siphon to the controller so it doesnt continue to fill when the pump kicks off.


 Ah, I intended to clamp that sucker anyway, thanks for the info.


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## drgreentm (Jul 31, 2011)

dbkick said:


> my question is how do you connect tubing to the topside of the elbow that actually pumps to the control bucket?


 one of the supplied (should have been anyway) hose clamps. there is not allot to work with there but it does work for mine, a zip tie would suffice as well.


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## drgreentm (Jul 31, 2011)

dbkick said:


> Ah, I intended to clamp that sucker anyway, thanks for the info.


 sure thing man, post some pics when its up and running, always wanted to see a monster in action.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> one of the supplied (should have been anyway) hose clamps. there is not allot to work with there but it does work for mine, a zip tie would suffice as well.


 yessir, at the price you'd think they could throw some clamps and zips,


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

so I asked the dude at the home depot about a anti siphon check valve and he didn't really have a clue, I guess I'll find out if this part is needed.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> sure thing man, post some pics when its up and running, always wanted to see a monster in action.


 was really hoping to start it up tonite because I have 4 plants in veg that have been there oh...I dunno how long really but I've put off moving them and they've gotten out of hand, I do want to grow big but I dunno about this big, I guess the bigger the better eh?


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

jesus the chiller just threw me for a loop, I forgot about it. anybody using one of those? I'll probably use the shitty stock cap pumps that came with the system to circulate the chiller.I suppose just running a piece of tubing into and out of the large hole in the res lid will work, then again I do have a unibit and can drill whatever size hole I might need.


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## drgreentm (Jul 31, 2011)

dbkick said:


> was really hoping to start it up tonite because I have 4 plants in veg that have been there oh...I dunno how long really but I've put off moving them and they've gotten out of hand, I do want to grow big but I dunno about this big, I guess the bigger the better eh?


 in that system, hell ya lol use it to the fullest.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

fucking sunday and I can't pull myself away from this pipe(loaded with 90+ percent earwax) long enough to get this thing running, cleaning the fucking roks alone was a ordeal.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

dbkick said:


> jesus the chiller just threw me for a loop, I forgot about it. anybody using one of those? I'll probably use the shitty stock cap pumps that came with the system to circulate the chiller.I suppose just running a piece of tubing into and out of the large hole in the res lid will work, then again I do have a unibit and can drill whatever size hole I might need.


I get my chiller monday and the check valve you have to get from Cap I order 4 of them il throw up a pic of what it looks like


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I get my chiller monday and the check valve you have to get from Cap I order 4 of them il throw up a pic of what it looks like


 shit are you saying I can't run without it?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

View attachment 1714424View attachment 1714423View attachment 1714422View attachment 1714421

yes you can run it without. heres the pics of the check valve


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

say yes and I get to sit here and take hash rips the rest of the evening, say no and its back to work!


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> View attachment 1714424View attachment 1714423View attachment 1714422View attachment 1714421
> 
> yes you can run it without. heres the pics of the check valve


oh right on, I really would like to get this running, thanks for the photo of the vavle, got a part number? and how you gonna do the chiller?


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

ah nevermind I see one on that one photo. thanks!


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

I'd obviously want the one numbered 75


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

you would want the one for 3/4 but you get the concept. for the chiller im going to to just run a pump in the
res to the chiller and back to the res.


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> you would want the one for 3/4 but you get the concept. for the chiller im going to to just run a pump in the
> res to the chiller and back to the res.


 yes exactly, I was just wondering how to secure the tubing , a couple new holes surely wouldn't hurt I guess.


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## jdmcwestevo (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> you would want the one for 3/4 but you get the concept. for the chiller im going to to just run a pump in the
> res to the chiller and back to the res.


you shouldnt run nutes through a chiller. they make a copper coil to cool resi's with. so you just run RO through the coil and chiller to cool your res. make your chiller last much longer that way


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

Hmm so the only water in the loop is whats in the lines? No res of sorts?


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## jdmcwestevo (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hmm so the only water in the loop is whats in the lines? No res of sorts?


o sorry you would have another res for the chiller of RO water. if you run nutes through your chiller the salt buildup will eventually ruin it. i cant remember, but i was talking to a friend of mine who swears by chilling his res.(i dont bother unless its really hot) but he said nutes shouldnt be directly cooled in a chiller bla bla bla. i just think the copper coil is much cleaner keeps your nutes in their place and keeps your chiller clean. think of all the slimey shit on your hoses in your res with nutes i wouldnt want that shit to build up in a $500 chiller lol


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

the chiller has a small res in it and can be easily back flushed with a garden hose, I've done it to my chiller once already but there was really no need, its not like you're ruining the chiller man, at the very most you'll have to remove and clean a internal res in the chiller but chances are you can blow anything clear of the tubing AND the chiller. copper in a res?? I don't think so
Really, wtf is the point of chilling the RO? Are you talking some kind of wort chiller?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

Guess il wait to se how my chiller comes and plan from there thanks to both of you


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## dbkick (Jul 31, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Guess il wait to se how my chiller comes and plan from there thanks to both of you


 the manual will tell you just to flush it every now and then, mine (1/2 hp) activeaqua even says a flushing agent is optional. gonna finish install tomorrow if it kills me....oh wait theres the day job to survive too.


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## jdmcwestevo (Jul 31, 2011)

i am planning on getting a chiller for my res in that warehouse i had pictures of because it has a tin roof so it gets HOT during the day and my res is pretty warm. plus my a/c condensers are in the same room and all my lights vent there too so its like 110 degrees in there horrible. what chiller do you have im interested to hear what you think of them if you guys need any equipment i can hook you up on pricing as well.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 31, 2011)

dbkick said:


> the manual will tell you just to flush it every now and then, mine (1/2 hp) activeaqua even says a flushing agent is optional. gonna finish install tomorrow if it kills me....oh wait theres the day job to survive too.


Mine i ordered is the same one you have lol


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## drgreentm (Aug 1, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> o sorry you would have another res for the chiller of RO water. if you run nutes through your chiller the salt buildup will eventually ruin it. i cant remember, but i was talking to a friend of mine who swears by chilling his res.(i dont bother unless its really hot) but he said nutes shouldnt be directly cooled in a chiller bla bla bla. i just think the copper coil is much cleaner keeps your nutes in their place and keeps your chiller clean. think of all the slimey shit on your hoses in your res with nutes i wouldnt want that shit to build up in a $500 chiller lol


 i have seen this done before by a friend of mine and he was not impressed, it really took away from the ability of cooling warmer res's sufficiently, at least i think he hooked it up the same way as you are explaining, using the RO water and chilling it then running it through copper coiling in the res, basically chilling the copper line as if you where constantly dropping frozen water bottles in the res, correct? it is a great idea but i just dont believe it could take 55 gal at 80-85F and drop it down to 65-70 which would be the only reason i would want to spend that kinda cash on a unit anyway.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 1, 2011)

Im hoping to drop it from 73 to 65


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 1, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> i have seen this done before by a friend of mine and he was not impressed, it really took away from the ability of cooling warmer res's sufficiently, at least i think he hooked it up the same way as you are explaining, using the RO water and chilling it then running it through copper coiling in the res, basically chilling the copper line as if you where constantly dropping frozen water bottles in the res, correct? it is a great idea but i just dont believe it could take 55 gal at 80-85F and drop it down to 65-70 which would be the only reason i would want to spend that kinda cash on a unit anyway.


i would imagine the issue would be in the power of the chiller. it works like an air conditioner does. an a/c can only cool air in a room a difference of 20 degrees so for example if the ambient is 80 the air out of the a/c will be 60. the chiller is similar with water so say the chiller water is 60 degrees and the nutes are 80. the copper coil will have a super high temp transfer rate, but depending upon the radiant heat that will heat up the nutes in the first place you can only cool it so much. it is definately more effective to run the nutes straight through the chiller, BUT im saying that its better for the longevity of your equipment to use a copper coil. my friend that is doing that method has pretty powerful chillers so if the coil is 50 degrees its going to drop those nutes down a lot more than if it was 60 or so.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 1, 2011)

and also i think a chiller can only drop temp by 10 degrees or so depending on how many hp it is so if you wanted to drop 20 degrees thats an expensive chiller lol


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Im hoping to drop it from 73 to 65


 it will do that easily I'd say, not a bad chiller, I got mine used. had about 8 hours on it and came with a 1000 gph pump, they say it will chill down to 39 degrees, I easily went 62 degrees but was using a igloo cooler as a res.


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## collective gardener (Aug 1, 2011)

HwllRaizer,

Hey, bro...forget the copper coil deal with the chiller. You will lose a ton of efficiency that way. Just hook it up like you were planning. The only time they really build up salts in when you remove them from service without first flushing it with pure RO water. Just for shits, we would flush ours once per week. Really tough to do...put inlet hose into bucket of RO water....well, that's it. 

I think you're going to dig the chiller. Every problem I've ever had with a hydro settup (besides clogs), could be attributed to warm water. My grow before this one was 13 k and 100% aeroponics. We made 4 insulated res's by placing a 30 gallon drum inside a 55 gallon drum and using 2 part pour foam in the gap between them. This cut the chiller's work load by half. Just a thought. Your grow looks really good. I take it you're not from Cali? Where are you from and what is the market like there?.


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## MoJobud (Aug 1, 2011)

dbkick said:


> it will do that easily I'd say, not a bad chiller, I got mine used. had about 8 hours on it and came with a 1000 gph pump, they say it will chill down to 39 degrees, I easily went 62 degrees but was using a igloo cooler as a res.


I use couple large igloo marine coolers in veg and drop 2liter frozen water bottles. It stays cold. Very cold.


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## researchkitty (Aug 1, 2011)

Just use a wort chiller for the rez.

http://www.amazon.com/Delux-Copper-Immersion-Wort-Chiller/dp/B000F74400

That's a link to an expensive one. They can be had elsewhere (anywhere) for around $50.

Dont chill it below 58(f). If you do, your roots wont like to drink. (This is also a common ebb & grow bucket problem if buckets are on a cold floor in winter time, baaad!)


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

Hell I was just at my hydro store and it appears the ebb and grow units come with check valve, I'm gonna order some myself, thanks for the info, I came up with a solution for the tubing to and from the chiller, flood table bulkheads.


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

add a couple threaded/barbed els and its all good.


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## drgreentm (Aug 1, 2011)

dbkick said:


> add a couple threaded/barbed els and its all good.


 looks good db, i like the black lid mine came with a almost clear/white lid.


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> looks good db, i like the black lid mine came with a almost clear/white lid.


 thanks man, was a pretty productive evening that may or may not be over, heres what its looking like now.....and before you say "well hey that chiller is kinda counter productive since it does blow hot air out the back and its pointed at the res" , I work at a hvac sheetmetal shop and plan to build a fitting that will be attached to a flex and a shitty little fan helping to suck the air out, although I think it would probably chill ok like it is I'll insulate the res a little with some southern engineering type deal for the time being.


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> I use couple large igloo marine coolers in veg and drop 2liter frozen water bottles. It stays cold. Very cold.


 thanks for the info mojo, I've moved away from igloos in flower but still keep one in veg, I've got a water pump in there cycled on for 30 seconds or so then off for 4-5 minutes since the roots do hang into the nutrient solution , but the water pump heats it a little(a lot if not cycled) I've kept temps down to 74 being the highest, there was a while I wasn't letting it get much past 70 and I'd throw in a fresh blue ice but now I don't even so that. temp right now is 71 but I started using bennies in veg so temps aren't really an issue.Igloo coolers do rule though!


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 1, 2011)

nice DB very nice, I want black lids and those fitting also lol


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## Osburn (Aug 1, 2011)

Here's my Train Wreck dominant phenos of TGA Subcool's Qrazy Train at 2 weeks into flower. I have only done DWC in intake/exhaust rooms in the past. This is my first ebb and gro sealed room. Had to iron out a lot of issues and ran out of money before I could perfect the environment, but my fully legal plants look almost as good as my DWC plants used to look and I have to do a fraction of the manual labor to keep the room going, which is really important to me now that I'm a cripple. Doing Lucas Formula w/Flora Series at full strength five times a day for a half hour when the lights are on. A chiller is definitely on my shopping list. I love how the pots look when the water is under seventy degrees. You can tell they just love it.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 1, 2011)

you plan on fliping them soon cus thats going to be godzila


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## Osburn (Aug 1, 2011)

I flipped them sixteen days ago and already had to bend three colas on one plant, but the plant responded well to the stress and doesn't need any support. I'm impressed with this TGA gear so far. 100% germination rate. 80% female. Never had those results before...


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 1, 2011)

hey so i talked to greentrees today and they are going to be making a 4 gallon bucket system like CAP's monster system. i'll be doing testing in a few months when its ready  how is your chiller working out did you get it setup yet im going to run it in my room to see the difference since i have 2 48 site systems in the same room with separate res i can cool one and leave one alone to test difference in growth.


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## drgreentm (Aug 1, 2011)

dbkick said:


> thanks man, was a pretty productive evening that may or may not be over, heres what its looking like now.....and before you say "well hey that chiller is kinda counter productive since it does blow hot air out the back and its pointed at the res" , I work at a hvac sheetmetal shop and plan to build a fitting that will be attached to a flex and a shitty little fan helping to suck the air out, although I think it would probably chill ok like it is I'll insulate the res a little with some southern engineering type deal for the time being.


 looks good to me bro sure its going to be a kick ass setup.


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

filled that sucker up with water tonite, hell, you can expect maybe a 2 degree fluctuation in water temps if you're conditions are anything like mine. I set the chiller on 64 let it get to that temp then filled 6 empty buckets for 30 minutes . when the drain completed it temp was 66. you overbought on the chiller just like me but thats the only guarantee its gonna work and work well. And thanks dr, I certainly do need to get this running, I think tomorrow I'll def fill 5 of the buckets, I have some shit thats gonna get out of hand.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 1, 2011)

dbkick said:


> filled that sucker up with water tonite, hell, you can expect maybe a 2 degree fluctuation in water temps if you're conditions are anything like mine. I set the chiller on 64 let it get to that temp then filled 6 empty buckets for 30 minutes . when the drain completed it temp was 66. you overbought on the chiller just like me but thats the only guarantee its gonna work and work well. And thanks dr, I certainly do need to get this running, I think tomorrow I'll def fill 5 of the buckets, I have some shit thats gonna get out of hand.


good to hear it works well for you. what chiller did you get again?


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 1, 2011)

hey DB you going with hydrotron or growdan? as for the chiller overkill is good so your saying if my water is 75 I should be able to get 64/65 easy?


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

hell I just chilled mine down to 62 for the hell of it, I have no plants in and am not filling/draining now anyway, tomorrow I intend to fill some empty pots though, after the day job that is :\
And I'm using Dyna-rok II, its 90 percent silica. expensive stuff but if it works like it says money well spent, it absorbs 150 percent its weight. I'm really not sure of what kind of feeding schedule to follow but its not rocket science I guess.


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> good to hear it works well for you. what chiller did you get again?


 Hey Jd, I got the half horse activeaqua , got it with a few hours(dude said 8 )on it, 450 bux with a 1000 gph pump that was just as new.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 1, 2011)

so far with hydrotron and growdan they like my flood timing might be a good place for you to start


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 1, 2011)

dbkick said:


> Hey Jd, I got the half horse activeaqua , got it with a few hours(dude said 8 )on it, 450 bux with a 1000 gph pump that was just as new.


thats a great deal im definately considering running a chiller in my warehouse i had pictures of. my nutes get pretty warm in there because they are in the open warehouse area where i have all the lights exhaust into plus it has a metal roof so its like a god damn sauna during the day in there, i have 3 big roof exhaust fans but they dont help much in a 3600 sq ft. warehouse. i think the warm nutes is the culprit to some weird issues im having in this room that i've never experienced before.


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

you gonna make me look it up in your other post or spit it out??? :\ 
haha, I'm fucking tired, its been a long day, I'm too old for this shit!


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> thats a great deal im definately considering running a chiller in my warehouse i had pictures of. my nutes get pretty warm in there because they are in the open warehouse area where i have all the lights exhaust into plus it has a metal roof so its like a god damn sauna during the day in there, i have 3 big roof exhaust fans but they dont help much in a 3600 sq ft. warehouse. i think the warm nutes is the culprit to some weird issues im having in this room that i've never experienced before.


 that half horse I believe is rated for something like 300 gallons.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 1, 2011)

lol 30 at lights on 30min at 4 hours in and 30min at lights off, take a break and burn one bro


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> lol 30 at lights on 30min at 4 hours in and 30min at lights off, take a break and burn one bro


 yassir, probably a nice indica sounds good, that and a xan. I'm putting my shit in flower tomorrow one way or another! I probably should have put my roks in and conditioned them tonite eh? is there a need or do I mix it up and go? or do I mix it up then flood and drain a few times without any plants in? I sure hope not because that will be a pain in my ass.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 1, 2011)

just do a quick rinse and load it up then cycle a couple floods and watch the ph then adjust and throw them in.


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## dbkick (Aug 1, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> just do a quick rinse and load it up then cycle a couple floods and watch the ph then adjust and throw them in.


 Right on, and I'll try your schedule, I was thinking 4 times a day for 15 minutes but I dunno, it depends on these roks I guess.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> Right on, and I'll try your schedule, I was thinking 4 times a day for 15 minutes but I dunno, it depends on these roks I guess.


with 4x4 cubes that is a good timing sched for veg in flower 6 times a day works good to keep them going.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

6 times a day wow


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

thats what i ran when i used rockwool and hydroton it worked out just fine, my good friend who also uses same system runs same feeding times


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## kevin murphy (Aug 2, 2011)

hopefully gunna be part of ebb and flo soon enough...


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

kevin murphy said:


> hopefully gunna be part of ebb and flo soon enough...


awesome welcome wat system you gonna get


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## kevin murphy (Aug 2, 2011)

not sure yet i still lokking about but i want to use it outdoor aswell..


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

kevin murphy said:


> not sure yet i still lokking about but i want to use it outdoor aswell..


i had a friend do that with great success both in green house and actually outside.


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## kevin murphy (Aug 2, 2011)

thats what i want to hear..my outdoor grow goin well so far its 37 days old take a look let me know what you think..

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/425185-doggies-nuts-armeggedon-top-my-680.html


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

kevin murphy said:


> thats what i want to hear..my outdoor grow goin well so far its 37 days old take a look let me know what you think..
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/425185-doggies-nuts-armeggedon-top-my-680.html


they are looking awesome man great job on those


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## kevin murphy (Aug 2, 2011)

thanks lad..lets hope harvest is good...


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## researchkitty (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> hell I just chilled mine down to 62 for the hell of it, I have no plants in and am not filling/draining now anyway, tomorrow I intend to fill some empty pots though, after the day job that is :\
> And I'm using Dyna-rok II, its 90 percent silica. expensive stuff but if it works like it says money well spent, it absorbs 150 percent its weight. I'm really not sure of what kind of feeding schedule to follow but its not rocket science I guess.



You keep advocating those too small pebbles to use....... Dont waste the cash! Holding 150% of their weight in water? Pfffft. It isnt supposed to hold anything at all.  It is NOT a better solution in *any* way shape or form!


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> You keep advocating those too small pebbles to use....... Dont waste the cash! Holding 150% of their weight in water? Pfffft. It isnt supposed to hold anything at all.  It is NOT a better solution in *any* way shape or form!


try using coco its awesome no ph fluctuation and the growth is amazing


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

I will try coco soon enough


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I will try coco soon enough


you will love it bro i was blown away kick myself in the ass all the time for not trying it sooner. im thinking about running smart pots inside of the top bucket of the ebb and flow to make it easier for cleanup after. also trying different types of coco for each one to see what does better as far as drainage etc. i used botanicare coco for this first test and it stays wet for a while kinda hard to judge when to do feedings


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## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> You keep advocating those too small pebbles to use....... Dont waste the cash! Holding 150% of their weight in water? Pfffft. It isnt supposed to hold anything at all.  It is NOT a better solution in *any* way shape or form!


 sorry kitty but you didn't even have a clue about silicas now you're telling me I wasted MY money? And I think the whole purpose of a medium is to retain water, if it retains no water you're plant would be dead.


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## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

and on another subject.... its on!! I just flipped 4 into flower .


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> and on another subject.... its on!! I just flipped 4 into flower .


good news DB its hope to see some update soon.


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## researchkitty (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> sorry kitty but you didn't even have a clue about silicas now you're telling me I wasted MY money? And I think the whole purpose of a medium is to retain water, if it retains no water you're plant would be dead.


The medium isnt supposed to retain water. Its a selling point of Hydroton, in fact. Rockwool is great, but not *intended* for bucket growers. Its meant for flood trays and works great in those. Sadly, they are prone to salt buildup in bucket systems, so you have to plan on flushing every few weeks with fresh water. Pretty annoying for a medium you cant re-use and have to throw away a few dollars per plant worth every harvest. Your water-retaining-rocks that are so small they fit through the holes are too dense to allow proper root growth, it's like overpacking a bowl, cant smoke it clogged! I appreciate that you may be offended, but it is just the truth on how the system is designed and properly maximized, nothing more........

While pores in Hydroton *do* retain *moisture*, they dont retain globs of water for any extended period of time whatsoever. Its a clean flush every time.

If I'm mistaken on any area, please do correct! I believe everything I type to be factual otherwise I wouldnt type it...... Dont mean I'm right every time though!


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## drgreentm (Aug 2, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> good news DB its hope to see some update soon.


 i agree lets see some pics man lol.


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## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

how bout now, my modest little attempt...


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> how bout now, my modest little attempt...


looks clean but one thing id flood the offten till they get there roots going im seeing some tops rolling over, those are some monsters lol


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## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

oops , forgot one, this ones for you kitty!


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## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

oh they aren't monsters yet, its been too long since I've had colas as big around as my big ol head.


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## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

and I think the tops rolling over may just be how they were in veg, they were basically aero (look kitty.....no roks!) and were very akward.


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## drgreentm (Aug 2, 2011)

shit man you where not lying when you said they where out of control lol, those are going to be huge. good job bro.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> oops , forgot one, this ones for you kitty!


that medium wont hold to much water, from what I see it will work just fine


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## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

one thing I've been meaning to ask is do you run bennies or sterile res?


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> one thing I've been meaning to ask is do you run bennies or sterile res?


with technoflora yes I run all there line even the bennys
but with AN no I use h202 for mild control and bleach for
out breaks


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> shit man you where not lying when you said they where out of control lol, those are going to be huge. good job bro.


 thanks man. I know what you may be seeing in the tops rolling, I supercropped not long ago due to I had to.


----------



## drgreentm (Aug 2, 2011)

i prefer nothing living in my res at all (sterile for me)


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> i prefer nothing living in my res at all (sterile for me)


i love my beneficials bacterias lol


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

actually I think my tops ARE rolling, so you suggest I flood a few times? could be difference in temp of water ? in veg they were at like 70-74, I've got it set at 65 now in flower.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

hey jdm got a buddy thats trying to use bennys hes using voodoo and hydrozyme and what happened shortly after adding was a huge outbreak
of foam and its brownish foam any reason why this would happen?


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> hey jdm got a buddy thats trying to use bennys hes using voodoo and hydrozyme and what happened shortly after adding was a huge outbreak
> of foam and its brownish foam any reason why this would happen?


interesting could be a reaction between the two if im not mistaken isnt voodoo a AN and hydrozyme a Canna nutrient?

let me do some quick research be back in a sec


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> i prefer nothing living in my res at all (sterile for me)


 I kinda feel the same way especially since I def have my temp under control in flower, now in veg its a different story and I do use great white , zho and some other shit. the way I understand it (heisy explained it)in hydro these bennies don't do much but displace the bad bacteria, while in soil it improves nutrient uptake,in hydro thats already optimum if certain shit is right.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

well i did some research and from what i read hygrozyme doesnt sound like i plays well with other bennies. 

normally i would say stick to one nutrient line when it comes to bennies because you dont know what enymes and bacteria and fungi or watever else they put in there will react and eat each other and stuff lol. those two are clearly not meant to be used together


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

researchkitty said:


> The medium isnt supposed to retain water. Its a selling point of Hydroton, in fact. Rockwool is great, but not *intended* for bucket growers. Its meant for flood trays and works great in those. Sadly, they are prone to salt buildup in bucket systems, so you have to plan on flushing every few weeks with fresh water. Pretty annoying for a medium you cant re-use and have to throw away a few dollars per plant worth every harvest. Your water-retaining-rocks that are so small they fit through the holes are too dense to allow proper root growth, it's like overpacking a bowl, cant smoke it clogged! I appreciate that you may be offended, but it is just the truth on how the system is designed and properly maximized, nothing more........
> 
> While pores in Hydroton *do* retain *moisture*, they dont retain globs of water for any extended period of time whatsoever. Its a clean flush every time.
> 
> If I'm mistaken on any area, please do correct! I believe everything I type to be factual otherwise I wouldnt type it...... Dont mean I'm right every time though!


 Ok kitty, I stand corrected and thanks for the info!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> interesting could be a reaction between the two if im not mistaken isnt voodoo a AN and hydrozyme a Canna nutrient?
> 
> let me do some quick research be back in a sec


no problem il be here lol


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> I kinda feel the same way especially since I def have my temp under control in flower, now in veg its a different story and I do use great white , zho and some other shit. the way I understand it (heisy explained it)in hydro these bennies don't do much but displace the bad bacteria, while in soil it improves nutrient uptake,in hydro thats already optimum if certain shit is right.


that is incorrect. you still get the effect of bennies in hydro, but they are more pronounced in soil since they sit there longer they have more time to work. 

for example great white is a bacteria used for root growth. the fungi or bacteria eat away at the i guess you can call it dead root tissue for lack of a better term to allow the roots to grow larger. think of it as when you have a sunburn and start peeling all that dead skin needs to come off for your new skin to come through. those enzymes eat away that dead skin faster. does that make sense?


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> that is incorrect. you still get the effect of bennies in hydro, but they are more pronounced in soil since they sit there longer they have more time to work.
> 
> for example great white is a bacteria used for root growth. the fungi or bacteria eat away at the i guess you can call it dead root tissue for lack of a better term to allow the roots to grow larger. think of it as when you have a sunburn and start peeling all that dead skin needs to come off for your new skin to come through. those enzymes eat away that dead skin faster. does that make sense?


no but I like it!


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

actually, I thought it was enzymes that eat dead root matter.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

it makes sense but the reaction that happens when using bennys make me not like using them. technoflora is the only one with 
bennys that seem to work for me


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

I think I'm having a issue, this pump (stock) in the control bucket doesn't pump down the water enough to allow the bottom float switch to drop and turn off the pump, this pump won't last long like that, I have a 1500 gph sump pump I'm thinking of putting in the control bucket but it would probably cycle a lot and would be hard on my pump, plus I'm gonna use that to drain res.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> no but I like it!


i know i agree with you it rocks lol 



dbkick said:


> actually, I thought it was enzymes that eat dead root matter.


thats what i was trying to explain i might have over complicated it haha



hellraizer30 said:


> it makes sense but the reaction that happens when using bennys make me not like using them. technoflora is the only one with
> bennys that seem to work for me


i have never had an issue with bennies reacting like that. i use multi zyme, roots excelerator from house and garden, and i have mixed in great white as well and it worked fucking awesome!

only bad reaction i've had with nutes was mixing Nutz farmer or something with silicate and it like instantly turned into silicone in the cup hahaha i was like holy shit thats craazy hahaha


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> I think I'm having a issue, this pump (stock) in the control bucket doesn't pump down the water enough to allow the bottom float switch to drop and turn off the pump, this pump won't last long like that, I have a 1500 gph sump pump I'm thinking of putting in the control bucket but it would probably cycle a lot and would be hard on my pump, plus I'm gonna use that to drain res.


hellraizer posted a fix for that a few pages back i thought


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

it didn't take long after I busted out the level to tell what my problem is, I guess I should rtfm or at least use common sense before I say something.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> it didn't take long after I busted out the level to tell what my problem is, I guess I should rtfm or at least use common sense before I say something.


haha amazing lol


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

not sure that its solved by leveling though, tilted back a little works but I dunno how that affects the fill, makes it fill more I suppose.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

it will fill fine aslong as the water level is higer than the pots gravity will fill them


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

the pump is triping due to water coming back down to the control box and triping the pump to turn on, this will keep happening!
you need to get a check valve or shorten up the hose leaving the box to the res, lees hose = less water. this is why puttinng the
box right next to the res is key! but all this can be averted by pluting the check valve as close to the control box as possable.
your pump will not last long tripping like that so a fix needs to happen


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> the pump is triping due to water coming back down to the control box and triping the pump to turn on, this will keep happening!
> you need to get a check valve or shorten up the hose leaving the box to the res, lees hose = less water. this is why puttinng the
> box right next to the res is key! but all this can be averted by pluting the check valve as close to the control box as possable.
> your pump will not last long tripping like that so a fix needs to happen


yeah I watched it do just what you said and my hydro shop is on the check valves, dunno why the ebb and grow ships with them and not the monster.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> yeah I watched it do just what you said and my hydro shop is on the check valves, dunno why the ebb and grow ships with them and not the monster.


because the 4 year old in the sweat shop that was supposed to put that in the box missed one lol im half asian so its not racist haha


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> because the 4 year old in the sweat shop that was supposed to put that in the box missed one lol im half asian so its not racist haha


 or his 5 year old brother drilled the hole too low for the float switch, I'm really amazed toddlers even know how to read a tape measure! Those asian kids are pretty smart though.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 2, 2011)

this thing doesn't mention check valve anywhere, I haven't heard from my hydro store yet so I'll swing by tomorrow, its kinda urgent now .


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

dbkick said:


> or his 5 year old brother drilled the hole too low for the float switch, I'm really amazed toddlers even know how to read a tape measure! Those asian kids are pretty smart though.


haha so amazing yet so true


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

all 4 of my ebb didnt come with them


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

back when i had CAPs mine didnt have it either. greentrees doesnt need it for some reason not sure why but i dont have the same issue


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

hey you figure out what that foam could be?


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

i posted way back there lol 

it was just the two enzymes reacting with each other. hygrozyme doesnt play well with others essentially. normally its not good to mix different nutrient line enymes because you dont really know what will react with each other well or not. unless they are designed to wrk with each other. you just found the baking soda and vinegar of enzymes i guess lol


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 2, 2011)

that makes sense thanks


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 2, 2011)

no prob man


----------



## med4u (Aug 3, 2011)

one more to add to the list,sand pebbles from home deep', like a 80 lb bag for a couple of bucks,one rinse and thats it,i just changed out,went to rinse the pebbles,it was crystal clear,they are a little heavier than grow rock but i only use 6inch net pots so not an issue,one bag of pebbles goes a long way in net pots,there are some small stones in it,but they cant get thru the netpots,i i also bought a mesh wastebasket from the dollar store,its made of 1/2 in mesh,throw the rock in it and rinse,anything smaller than a 1/2 in goes thru the mesh and bobs your uncle! about 5gal bucket of rock in minutes, also i use dyna gro, never a nute issue or slime,no need to adjust ph,and contains all the nutes complete,clean,and easy,my plants love it,almost as much as i do, remember to keep it simple,your plants will love it and so will you!


----------



## dbkick (Aug 3, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> all 4 of my ebb didnt come with them


 the old version of the monster used to ship with check valves, my hydro store guy just told me the new version(which I got) has a 3 second delay somewhere or another thats suppose to fix the need for a check valve . funny I need one. my hydro store guy also opened a ebb and grow while I was there and it had check valve. I think I just solved my problem with the pump running by placing it intake down. this should work till I get the check valves. got one plant that appears to not like the ebb though, I may lose one but the others are doing pretty good, tops turned back the right way.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 3, 2011)

dbkick said:


> the old version of the monster used to ship with check valves, my hydro store guy just told me the new version(which I got) has a 3 second delay somewhere or another thats suppose to fix the need for a check valve . funny I need one. my hydro store guy also opened a ebb and grow while I was there and it had check valve. I think I just solved my problem with the pump running by placing it intake down. this should work till I get the check valves. got one plant that appears to not like the ebb though, I may lose one but the others are doing pretty good, tops turned back the right way.


good to hear it


----------



## dbkick (Aug 3, 2011)

I know this isn't the right section for this subject but I got a kick out of it and wanted to share............*DENVER -- *A former police officer is joining the effort to legalize marijuana for recreational use in Colorado.
It appears he regrets ever busting ANY of the many many people he busted in his law enforcement career, I'm not a voter when it comes to anything but legal weed and then I'll go out of my way, if its on the ballot I'll register and you know how I'll vote.


----------



## MoJobud (Aug 4, 2011)

Is the controller bucket with 2 floats on the bottom a newer version vs the one float version?


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 4, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> Is the controller bucket with 2 floats on the bottom a newer version vs the one float version?


the newest version comes from greentrees it has 4 floats that are adjustable i believe cap only has 2 floats


----------



## MoJobud (Aug 4, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> the newest version comes from greentrees it has 4 floats that are adjustable i believe cap only has 2 floats


I have 2 different cap controllers. One has 2 floats on the bottom. Just trying to figure out which is newer.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 4, 2011)

MoJobud said:


> Is the controller bucket with 2 floats on the bottom a newer version vs the one float version?


 The cap controllers with 3 float switches total are the older version from what I've been told, the monster I bought has two float switches.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 4, 2011)

ive got 1 with 4 floats and one with 3 and too with 2 floats the more float is older and newer has less


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 4, 2011)

here are some pics today of my 20k watt room flipped them last week took some pictures today. the huge bush is my budding clone experiment turned out awesome thing is like twice the size of everything in the room but had a nitrogen def. that wont go away so weird.

the color is messed up from my cell phone so sorry lol but they are looking decent from how much shit these plants have been through half them were dead 2 weeks ago from 140 degree heat and no nutes for 4 days lol surprised they look how they do now to be honest.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 4, 2011)

nice jdm even though they have been through hell and back.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 4, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> nice jdm even though they have been through hell and back.


bro i am amazed they are alive i literally walked in one day the room was 140 at least the thermostat was PEGGED at 140 everything was brown and wilted saved 52 out of 96 plants though lol i consider that a win


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hey back on that foam issue you think it could be caused by to much air from stone
My buddy tripping and im hoping to save the day


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 5, 2011)

lol well you shouldnt be using an air stone with bennys the air will kill them off....that is what i have been told anyway by a more experienced grower than me. but it totally could have been i honestly have never heard of benny's foaming up haha


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 5, 2011)

K thanks man


----------



## med4u (Aug 5, 2011)

hr,is it possible you have some detergent residue in your system,from a clean out perhaps? are you using regular chlorox?some contain added detergents,any noticable smell to the water? is pump aerating?


----------



## drgreentm (Aug 5, 2011)

I noticed some foam in my res after adding some dyna gro protekt silica to it, hopefully its not a bad thing.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 5, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> I noticed some foam in my res after adding some dyna gro protekt silica to it, hopefully its not a bad thing.


wouldnt worry about it you guys probably just have soap residue or something like he said above


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 5, 2011)

med4u said:


> hr,is it possible you have some detergent residue in your system,from a clean out perhaps? are you using regular chlorox?some contain added detergents,any noticable smell to the water? is pump aerating?


Not my res its a friends and theres no soap or bleach doesnt ues it


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 5, 2011)

The foam its brown so its not a good thing


----------



## drgreentm (Aug 5, 2011)

Well my Res doesn't smell bad at all so I'm not to worried at this point.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

straight from mr CAP himself............The check valve was include in some units because they lack a delay ON feature for the drain side of the cycle. All units starting about February all have the delay built into the control board, making the check valve unnecessary. I would say that if the customer wants a check valve then we do sell them, other than that they are not needed for any of our units, unless it has been sitting on they're shelf for more than 8 months. Let me know if you need any additional information."


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

they certainly do make it clear that they SELL a check valve. 6 bills I spent and they can't include a 5 dollar part because they THINK its not needed, thats why I have the intake pointing down on my drain pump.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

so I just had a look at my control bucket, the delay is in the on cycle. how would this solve a problem like that? the delay should be on the off cycle I would think..


----------



## med4u (Aug 5, 2011)

db,jus jumpin in here late,but did you say you were having probs without the check valve,or just pissed you didn't get one?i ve got 2 systems with the delay and no check valves and have had no probs,also do you have the 90 elbow with a hole in it on the fill pump exit from the res? to lazy to reread thread ma bad


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

med4u said:


> db,jus jumpin in here late,but did you say you were having probs without the check valve,or just pissed you didn't get one?i ve got 2 systems with the delay and no check valves and have had no probs,also do you have the 90 elbow with a hole in it on the fill pump exit from the res? to lazy to reread thread ma bad


 Med, I do have the 90 with the hole in it (vacuum break) pointed down, I'm gonna put my pump in the way I had it (the correct way according to the manual), right now I've got the intake pointed down and it shuts off like it should, I'll try it once more their way and see what happens. and thanks for the time.


----------



## med4u (Aug 5, 2011)

right on bro ,fill that sucker up and let er' rip,good luck & keep it green


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 5, 2011)

just order the check valve its worth it. will be throwing up updates later today


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

throwing up rules!!!


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

odd I could have sworn jd said not to put airstones in your res :/


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 5, 2011)

dbkick said:


> odd I could have sworn jd said not to put airstones in your res :/


he did it causes issue with bennys


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

yeah? I'd think no o2 would cause issues. maybe I'll skip the bennies except in veg. but then if the roots are colonized from being in veg I'd think they'd be some in flower unless you kill them off beforehand .


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 5, 2011)

you get enough oxygen from the water splashing into the control bucket during fill and the water splashing into the res in drain. no airstones are needed.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 5, 2011)

im starting to think so to im going to have my buddy shut off his and see.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 5, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> im starting to think so to im going to have my buddy shut off his and see.


that is the best idea. i am talking from experience i figured that an airstone would be bitchen to get more DO in the water. it didnt make a difference in growth, and my root growth was slowed i asked my friend who like i said is a 3rd generation grower he explained how the airstone and the super oxygenated water was killing off my beenys from root excellerator and great white so that is why my roots were suffering. if you dont use bennys then the airstone is fine and probably beneficial depending on your setup. if you do use bennys then you need to pick one or the other otherwise you are wasting your money


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

the only thing I've read is to not feed the bennies in res, thats where the foam may come from.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 5, 2011)

dbkick said:


> the only thing I've read is to not feed the bennies in res, thats where the foam may come from.


i have never experienced this. i add my beenies and my sweeteners partially to feed them mainly because i feel it makes a very big difference in the aroma and flavor of my bud. never had foam issue can we see pictures lol im curious as to what this looks like im picturing like a shaken up soda opening and foaming everywhere or like baking soda and vinegar


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

beneficial bacteria are aerobic and without o2 will die, bad bacteria are anaerobic I'll always run an airstone in res.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 5, 2011)

dbkick said:


> beneficial bacteria are aerobic and without o2 will die, bad bacteria in anaerobic I'll always run an airstone in res.*http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAnaerobic&rct=j&q=anaerobic&ei=odU8TrrlDIO1sQKXiuUz&usg=AFQjCNGhf5NPF5bKqP0nIicnQGTguUC7Rw&sig2=ZIg4Da2vI-BFK6rV4ABzMA&cad=rja*


like i said i have nothing to back it up except for my own experience and hearing this from very experienced growers with 20 years experience


----------



## dbkick (Aug 5, 2011)

pardon my typos I'm quite intoxicated, don't rule out misinformation either.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 5, 2011)

well the AN rep says no air


----------



## dbkick (Aug 6, 2011)

they should know, they make the big bux, all I know is all I've heard is you don't feed them in the res


----------



## med4u (Aug 6, 2011)

jus curious,are you guys using organics?if so why not go chem and say bye-bye to all negative issues in hydro?,from what i understand organics are more akind to soil grows where chems are designed for hydro ie nutrients are available for immediate uptake vs. organics need to be broke down before they can be utilized,i started in hydro with organics and ran into much of the same probs that i am reading about ie ph probs,slime,brown crap,pyth,need for bb's.....it was like going to war with the whole grow! since then i went chem and have had 0 issues with any aspect of growing,so clean and easy,i have only 3 grows with the chems,but each one was easy and bountiful with not one issue,like i said jus curious,please enlighten me


----------



## dbkick (Aug 6, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> well the AN rep says no air


 How would one get around using an airstone in deep water? I mean fine in ebb and flow but plenty of folks use bennies in deep water and even though the bennies will do ok without added air your plants sure wouldn't. I use great white, azos and zho in veg and pump plenty air into dwc/aero and have no foam issues.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 6, 2011)

med4u said:


> jus curious,are you guys using organics?if so why not go chem and say bye-bye to all negative issues in hydro?,from what i understand organics are more akind to soil grows where chems are designed for hydro ie nutrients are available for immediate uptake vs. organics need to be broke down before they can be utilized,i started in hydro with organics and ran into much of the same probs that i am reading about ie ph probs,slime,brown crap,pyth,need for bb's.....it was like going to war with the whole grow! since then i went chem and have had 0 issues with any aspect of growing,so clean and easy,i have only 3 grows with the chems,but each one was easy and bountiful with not one issue,like i said jus curious,please enlighten me


 I think the only organics anyone is using here would be the bennies.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 6, 2011)

*Myco and Hydroponics*

When using Organic Microbes Myco or Bacteria products in an hydroponic environment it should be noted that the use of sterilising agents should be stopped. Changing reservoirs is frowned upon in certain cases. Myco will survive perfectly adequately in even the deepest of systems, often these systems are oxygenated so there is enough oxygen anyway, but even in waters with low O2 content myco will survive perfectly well with the O2 provided in the rhizosphere. informative page, I bet their product is good too........... http://organicmicrobes.com/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=3&Itemid=12


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 6, 2011)

dbkick said:


> How would one get around using an airstone in deep water? I mean fine in ebb and flow but plenty of folks use bennies in deep water and even though the bennies will do ok without added air your plants sure wouldn't. I use great white, azos and zho in veg and pump plenty air into dwc/aero and have no foam issues.


Its no air with there products, just another reason to stop using AN


----------



## dbkick (Aug 6, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Its no air with there products, just another reason to stop using AN


 funny, I did have a problem using their lineup that included voodoo juice and sensizyme in deep water. also included a foam/slime if I remember right.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 6, 2011)

As did I a year ago and stopped using there bennys


----------



## formfactor (Aug 6, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> bro i am amazed they are alive i literally walked in one day the room was 140 at least the thermostat was PEGGED at 140 everything was brown and wilted saved 52 out of 96 plants though lol i consider that a win



Oh man that really sucks. I hope it all worked out ok in the end.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 6, 2011)

formfactor said:


> Oh man that really sucks. I hope it all worked out ok in the end.


i saved half of them they are in flower now i will snap pics today when i go by there and post up later


----------



## formfactor (Aug 6, 2011)

I started a video journal of my current CAP ebb and gro 35 site grow on YouTube.

Please feel free to subscribe and leave any feedback.

Http://www.YouTube.com/user/dankdiary

I'll be posting week 6 video (1 week flowering) very soon.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 6, 2011)

formfactor said:


> I started a video journal of my current CAP ebb and gro 35 site grow on YouTube.
> 
> Please feel free to subscribe and leave any feedback.
> 
> ...


il check it out but you should start a journal here to


----------



## formfactor (Aug 6, 2011)

Yes I likely will, as I could use some feedback. Particularly I have this problem... Some of my leaves have these like burns on them. I'm using tap water, and last flush I rsn straight unballanced tap water through the system. My hopes were that the tiny bit of chlorine in the tap water would help rinse things clean. Is it possible this burned my plants? I'll get a pic later on of you guys think it would help.


----------



## kevin murphy (Aug 6, 2011)

i know it might be wrong place to ask but do you know anyone on this site who grows in wilma pots and if there any good...thanks in advance hope dont mind askin..


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 6, 2011)

formfactor said:


> Yes I likely will, as I could use some feedback. Particularly I have this problem... Some of my leaves have these like burns on them. I'm using tap water, and last flush I rsn straight unballanced tap water through the system. My hopes were that the tiny bit of chlorine in the tap water would help rinse things clean. Is it possible this burned my plants? I'll get a pic later on of you guys think it would help.


no strait tap water aint going to burn your plants


----------



## Jetcidiot (Aug 7, 2011)

Hello, can someone please tell me what the diameter of one of the system's buckets is? This will help me to figure out whether I should use two rows or three in my 5x10 tent grow. Thanks.


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## med4u (Aug 7, 2011)

form,sometimes water transpires from the leaves,its possible the droplets may have acted like a magnafying glass and burned them,is it all over or just a few spots?are your lights down low on em?


----------



## formfactor (Aug 7, 2011)

It's like just on a few spots. Somebody suggested it was wind burn. You can actually see it in this video. 

[video=youtube;bquW7dLAgT8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bquW7dLAgT8&sns=em[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bquW7dLAgT8&sns=em

It makes sense that it could be wind burn, since I had those huge box fans going full blast. I have turned them down a bit. Any thoughts on that?

[video=youtube;bquW7dLAgT8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bquW7dLAgT8&sns=em[/video]


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## formfactor (Aug 7, 2011)

Jetcidiot said:


> Hello, can someone please tell me what the diameter of one of the system's buckets is? This will help me to figure out whether I should use two rows or three in my 5x10 tent grow. Thanks.


I wat to say their about 10" diameter, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I'll be going over there tonight so I'll get you a definite number.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 7, 2011)

formfactor said:


> It's like just on a few spots. Somebody suggested it was wind burn. You can actually see it in this video.
> 
> [video=youtube;bquW7dLAgT8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bquW7dLAgT8&sns=em[/video]
> 
> ...



nice plants +rep


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## kevin murphy (Aug 7, 2011)

very nice plants and good spot for who ever suggested it..


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## formfactor (Aug 7, 2011)

Thank you. I have 2 distinctly different sour diesel strains. I purchased the smaller clones a long time ago from a local clone seller on CL. That strain is an absolute fucking dream to grow. It grows super fast, I've never had a single burn, you can just see how healthy those plants are. The buds that grow in that E and G are just nasty fucking sticky dense messes that reek of fruity sour goodness. I had problems taking my own clones at first because I didn't have AC. The guy I bought them from didn't have any more, so I had to buy clones elsewhere. I have since gotten AC so that's no longer a problem.

The other I bought from an actual store here in town. It seems to burn easily, in the beginning I was watering 6 times in a 24 hr period for 30 min, and these plants would like kind of wrinkle. so it's not very resistant against the elements. I have yet to see the flowers, maybe I'll be impressed, but I don't even think I'm going to keep any at this point. But that other sour D strain, omfg I just love it! 

It's just so easy in this system though. I absolutely love it. I'm considering buying another as I am working on increasing my legal plant count.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 7, 2011)

what yield per 1k watt are you expecting out of the sour d. i am switching one of my rooms to blue dream and green crack it makes better financial sense you get a much higher yield 2lb per 1k watt even though its worth less than OG something we were running numbers on yesterday you guys have experience growing BD or GC i've seen friends get crazy yields off them but personally i have never grown it.


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## formfactor (Aug 7, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> il check it out but you should start a journal here to


Done and done.


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## formfactor (Aug 7, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> what yield per 1k watt are you expecting out of the sour d. i am switching one of my rooms to blue dream and green crack it makes better financial sense you get a much higher yield 2lb per 1k watt even though its worth less than OG something we were running numbers on yesterday you guys have experience growing BD or GC i've seen friends get crazy yields off them but personally i have never grown it.



Well tbh I'm not expecting an outrageously high yield from this harvest.. I'm still quite a n00b as this is maybe my 3rd grow. My previous grows were pretty small, so I don't have much experience with tying, scrogs and such. My past grows were only up to 6 plants and 1 light. So this is my first serious grow, and I am going to really push for a high yield during flower. I'm going to build a net of fishing line and dowels to tie the buds to, and I'm going to lollipop the shit out of them. I am pretty impressed though with the sour d strain... Really nice dense colas, and since I topped a lot of these, soe several times, I should get a logic those colas (omfg I can't wait). But I am very interested in increasing my yields, and cant wait to get the final tally.


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## formfactor (Aug 7, 2011)

Also, I have seen BD grows (around the WWW) and evidently they do provide some huge yields... But from my understanding (especially in Cali) everybody and their mothers uncle is already growing it. So the market may be somewhat saturated with BD.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 7, 2011)

formfactor said:


> Also, I have seen BD grows (around the WWW) and evidently they do provide some huge yields... But from my understanding (especially in Cali) everybody and their mothers uncle is already growing it. So the market may be somewhat saturated with BD.


o i know it totally is lol that is why its worth very low on the dispensary donation range for top top quality BD you will get around 2500-2600 per lb if you are doing multiples. but if i can pull 2 lb a light i am rocking 20k watts then that would be around 40lb i wouldnt really give a shit haha prolly split the room half BD half Green crack or sour d something big yielder. there is a lot of BD here but not much of it is very good mostly outdoor and green house. even the indoor i have seen is very low quality in comparrison to other strains. i think most of the better growers are like me growing OG, but i ran the numbers and BD would be more beneficial. it is also much easier to grow and less of a bitch than OG is


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## formfactor (Aug 7, 2011)

Jeeze, 40LB is a very good argument no matter how you look at it! Sounds like a dream... I've never tried blue dream, is that pretty much all indica? I do have a strain called blue moonshine that's pretty much indica and I don't like it at all... But in all probability it's not even related to BD.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 7, 2011)

formfactor said:


> Jeeze, 40LB is a very good argument no matter how you look at it! Sounds like a dream... I've never tried blue dream, is that pretty much all indica? I do have a strain called blue moonshine that's pretty much indica and I don't like it at all... But in all probability it's not even related to BD.


blue dream is 
Dj short's Blueberry x Haze

very very sativa like i said a HUGE yielder. if grown right you get a killer blueberry smell i have seen people bring it in to my dispensary. nugs bigger than my fist rock hard. that is what i wanna grow i got some pictures of my other room i built i'm gonna start a journal. its another 20k watt setup with greentree ebb and flow buckets i'll post a link soon


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 7, 2011)

here check it out guys

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/453920-jdmcwestevos-20k-watt-medical-grow.html


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## formfactor (Aug 7, 2011)

Looking forward to seeing that!


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 7, 2011)

formfactor said:


> Looking forward to seeing that!


 its up now 

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/453920-jdmcwestevos-20k-watt-medical-grow.html


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 8, 2011)

Im going to be doing a rite up on hienseberg tea, set by step of how I do it never done it before but it seem simple
Enough, plus im sick of using chemicals and geting slime and still losing the bennys. So my clones will be the test sub
Sinse there shit anyhow.


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## dbkick (Aug 8, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Im going to be doing a rite up on hienseberg tea, set by step of how I do it never done it before but it seem simple
> Enough, plus im sick of using chemicals and geting slime and still losing the bennys. So my clones will be the test sub
> Sinse there shit anyhow.


 too much work brewing the microbes when you can buy them in powder form at a reasonable price (excluding AN lineup).
And the problem I'm seeing is if you use a product such as bud candy or many of the same type of product, heisenberg made it clear not to feed the bennies in the res, why I have no idea but using any sweetener will cause issues, at least in deep water and I don't know why it would be any different in ebb and flow.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 8, 2011)

dbkick said:


> too much work brewing the microbes when you can buy them in powder form at a reasonable price (excluding AN lineup).
> And the problem I'm seeing is if you use a product such as bud candy or many of the same type of product, heisenberg made it clear not to feed the bennies in the res, why I have no idea but using any sweetener will cause issues, at least in deep water and I don't know why it would be any different in ebb and flow.


i use sweeteners with bennies in my res forever with no issues. i have no idea why that would be an issue


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## dbkick (Aug 8, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> i use sweeteners with bennies in my res forever with no issues. i have no idea why that would be an issue


 Would be a good question for heisy. but I think it has to do with slimes.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 8, 2011)

dbkick said:


> Would be a good question for heisy. but I think it has to do with slimes.


i use house and garden my res is not slimey AT ALL. the water is basically clear asside from a ting red from the 2 part one is clear one is like cranberry juice color. koolaid is darker than my res i can see straight to the bottom. 

it would only make sense for sugars to be in the res to keep your bennies alive longer i would think. like i said i use sweeteners for what they are not to feed bennies but i feel it increases flavor and definately smell. never had a single issue


----------



## formfactor (Aug 8, 2011)

Jetcidiot said:


> Hello, can someone please tell me what the diameter of one of the system's buckets is? This will help me to figure out whether I should use two rows or three in my 5x10 tent grow. Thanks.


Just under 10" diameter. I'd say about 9.85" or so. Worth noting there's an inch num out th side when the hose fitting is in.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 8, 2011)

dbkick said:


> too much work brewing the microbes when you can buy them in powder form at a reasonable price (excluding AN lineup).
> And the problem I'm seeing is if you use a product such as bud candy or many of the same type of product, heisenberg made it clear not to feed the bennies in the res, why I have no idea but using any sweetener will cause issues, at least in deep water and I don't know why it would be any different in ebb and flow.


theres no work at all the myco madness is all the AN bennys and tons of others, thing is 1 to 1 good bennys cant win so you breed them
in a seperate 5gal to create billions of them then add it to the res and blame the good wins. plus myco cost 28 bucks for enough to make
100gals try geting that out of AN


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## dbkick (Aug 8, 2011)

I just bought great white myself, and I hope you're right about it being good in ebb and flow WITH sweeteners because thats just what I'm doing now, I was trying to decide sterile res or bennies and the great white and zho won.


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## dbkick (Aug 8, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> theres no work at all the myco madness is all the AN bennys and tons of others, thing is 1 to 1 good bennys cant win so you breed them
> in a seperate 5gal to create billions of them then add it to the res and blame the good wins. plus myco cost 28 bucks for enough to make
> 100gals try geting that out of AN


 you know, this was my idea too, I was gonna buy one bottle of voodoo juice and keep a bucket bubbling, but I dropped all that and went sterile.


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## dbkick (Aug 8, 2011)

but I thought you were talking about heisenbergs recipe, thats some work. I'd do it if I were in soil but I'll never be in soil.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 8, 2011)

this is hiesenbergs resipe you got to read the latest threads hes formulated it to be so simple


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## dbkick (Aug 9, 2011)

Yo my check valves came in and CAP insisted I don't need them but gladly charged me 17 dollar apiece for them, I think I won't install it and let the pump burn out so they have to replace it, these fuckers are now on my boycott list. They certainly are proud of their plastics.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 9, 2011)

dbkick said:


> Yo my check valves came in and CAP insisted I don't need them but gladly charged me 17 dollar apiece for them, I think I won't install it and let the pump burn out so they have to replace it, these fuckers are now on my boycott list. They certainly are proud of their plastics.


i've been saying that forever CAP ebb and grow sucks. their other stuff is good but they are just bitches when it comes to stuff man


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well if it becomes a issue for me il just replace the control box


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## dbkick (Aug 9, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> i've been saying that forever CAP ebb and grow sucks. their other stuff is good but they are just bitches when it comes to stuff man


 I never said this system has failed, for 5 bills it better fucking not, I did get the monster ebb and nobody else really makes a unit like that , that I'm aware of. I did however say they have a problem with price gouging but in the end it was my choice with which unit to go with, I think I made the right choice, so far so good. I just think they could lower the price of their plastics a bit and still make bank. I've had one cap item I've actually thought was a piece of shit and did return it (their cycle timers suck), other than that their products have worked for me.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 9, 2011)

I feel the same way but if I have to replace something il just do it with another brand.
im having great luck so far and as for there cycle timers I lost 30 choice clones to one
of those so buyer beware they do suck a fat cock!!


----------



## dbkick (Aug 9, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I feel the same way but if I have to replace something il just do it with another brand.
> im having great luck so far and as for there cycle timers I lost 30 choice clones to one
> of those so buyer beware they do suck a fat cock!!


 yessir, I ALMOST lost shit to one , its a good thing I stay on top of things (most of the time) .


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 9, 2011)

yah if it wasnt for work I would of saved them but hey shit happens right.


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## dbkick (Aug 9, 2011)

man you said the W word! my ass is dragging already this week(boss is gone, its been more mental than physical for me), I certainly will be glad when the slave driver makes it back so I can return to workhorse mode.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 9, 2011)

dbkick said:


> man you said the W word! my ass is dragging already this week(boss is gone, its been more mental than physical for me), I certainly will be glad when the slave driver makes it back so I can return to workhorse mode.


lol the season ends for me end of sep so il be out of work for 3 months sucks but the wife make good $


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 10, 2011)

this is my business lol so if i lose a crop i'm hurting. im also going to open a new hydro store in huntington beach if anyone is local there i will hook you guys up. i'm pretty sure i can drop ship too so i can ship to out of state guys.


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## sinden5 (Aug 10, 2011)

Why don't all you little bitches stop crying about CAP and gro up and grow some weed. After all THIS IS a growers forum not a crybaby daycare..!!!!!!!


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## drgreentm (Aug 10, 2011)

hmmmmm actually this is a site to exchange information weather it be good or bad so get your shit straight and get the fuck out of this thread unless you are a cap E&G user and have some credible information to give.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 10, 2011)

sinden5 said:


> Why don't all you little bitches stop crying about CAP and gro up and grow some weed. After all THIS IS a growers forum not a crybaby daycare..!!!!!!!


ya fuck off Mr. 1 post


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## sinden5 (Aug 10, 2011)

I wouldn't waste my time on this forum with you little know-nothing pussy's...!!!


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

sinden5 said:


> Why don't all you little bitches stop crying about CAP and gro up and grow some weed. After all THIS IS a growers forum not a crybaby daycare..!!!!!!!


 The CAP poster boi , take a fucking pill its not like people are talking about your mama........here.


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## drgreentm (Aug 10, 2011)

hey db, how is the ladies coming along even with all the trouble, well i hope.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

sinden5 said:


> Why don't all you little bitches stop crying about CAP and gro up and grow some weed. After all THIS IS a growers forum not a crybaby daycare..!!!!!!!


how about you fuck off you peace of shit


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 10, 2011)

dbkick said:


> The CAP poster boi , take a fucking pill its not like people are talking about your mama........here.


hey sinden5 FUCK YOUR MOMMA BITCH! FUCK HER IN THE ASS WITH A BIG BLACK DILDO


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## Jetcidiot (Aug 10, 2011)

Can someone please tell me if it is possible to run the buckets on two different levels? I.E., could you run 6 on the floor and 6 above them on a shelf, or would this not work due to the controller requiring all units on the same level?

Thank you.


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## drgreentm (Aug 10, 2011)

the controller has to be level (or pretty close) with the buckets because if the controller is higher than the buckets they will overflow, if the controller is below the buckets they wont flood as high. if you are thinking of a Colosseum style system i have seen it done with multiple controllers and one res.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

Jetcidiot said:


> Can someone please tell me if it is possible to run the buckets on two different levels? I.E., could you run 6 on the floor and 6 above them on a shelf, or would this not work due to the controller requiring all units on the same level?
> 
> Thank you.


this wouldnt work what ever level the control box is the buckets do to, this doesnt mean you couldnt put the buckets and the control box on a shelf and hook up a secound control box on the floor. all plumed into one res just dont go over 48 buckets per res.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> the controller has to be level (or pretty close) with the buckets because if the controller is higher than the buckets they will overflow, if the controller is below the buckets they wont flood as high. if you are thinking of a Colosseum style system i have seen it done with multiple controllers and one res.


lol didnt even see your post, yah what drg says


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> hey db, how is the ladies coming along even with all the trouble, well i hope.


 hey drg they're aren't doing too bad other than fans turning yellow two weeks into flower, is that normal, I'm noticing sativas seem to do that.I'm about to search for some clones, one dude is selling what he says is the august centerfold in hightimes, he wants fidy bucks a pop for small not all that healthy looking clones, I offered him like 100 bux for 3 about 2 months back but he wouldn't budge so fuck him and his "elite" genetics.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

dbkick said:


> hey drg they're aren't doing too bad other than fans turning yellow two weeks into flower, is that normal, I'm noticing sativas seem to do that.I'm about to search for some clones, one dude is selling what he says is the august centerfold in hightimes, he wants fidy bucks a pop for small not all that healthy looking clones, I offered him like 100 bux for 3 about 2 months back but he wouldn't budge so fuck him and his "elite" genetics.


you shouldnt be getting yellowing that early, whats your ppm? ph? and what line of nutes?


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

yeah thats what I was thinking, thats why I switched every-fucking-thing including right down to the system I use, right now at like 2 weeks in I'm sitting at about 1200 ppm, that being made up of dynabloom , pro mag , pro tekt( I don't think this affects ppm but certainly does ph) some b52 and possibly a little bud candy if I remember right, great white and zho and thats it.ph is rock solid 5.8, temp is 64 f .


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

hmm nitrogen def of somekind you got pics?


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

lemme go snap a couple.....


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

tips burned , the one right next to it although a different strain is doing fine.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

what type of ph meter you using?


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

bluelab guardian .


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

well that top of the line so we can rule out ph.
looks like cal issue to me you might try magi cal 
by technoflora.


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

I think I have a small bottle of that , came with the monster


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

if your using gyno grow i look up homebrewers resipe


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

For Veg (mls/gallon):
Grow 2.5 - 3
Protekt 4

Flower (mls/gallon):
Grow 2
Bloom 4
Protekt 5
Magpro 1 

heres what homebrewer uses and hes a master of dyno grow


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

he uses grow the whole cycle? dyna-gro calls for 0 grow in flower.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

looks that way and the grow has the added nitrogen and magniesium your needing


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

I'll try it next change, which is in a few days possibly, gotta get some veg going too. always something.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

hopefully it helps but yellow leave dont fix themselves so just watch new growth


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## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

thanks for the info , I'm really not sure why I'm having this problem after switching out everything. I thought (or actually AN thought) that it was something in my system. but thats pretty much totally changed.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 10, 2011)

lol AN is so stupid lol something with your system was creating a def. lol


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 10, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> lol AN is so stupid lol something with your system was creating a def. lol


what I was thinking myself.....


----------



## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> lol AN is so stupid lol something with your system was creating a def. lol


 they got 20 liters of bloom back , I spent the money on roks.


----------



## drgreentm (Aug 10, 2011)

man this same shit is actually happening to me right now (more spotting though) and i cant figure it out. i have 7 bubbas 3 of which have some yellow leaves, the rest look great all getting fed the same soup so im stumped but wont change anything unless more than 50% of the crop is effected, although new growth looks to be fine, just not sure o well lol.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

you know, I was gonna start using rockwool to veg but now Ive decided to stick to aero because that seems to be the only way to get them big short of having another system with buckets and all.They took the transplant pretty well from aero to roks other than this yellowing.


----------



## drgreentm (Aug 10, 2011)

i will snap some pics of mine tomorrow, i was thinking maybe some pests but only on three? plus the canopy is so thick at this point i cant get my fat ass in there to get a good look lol time to send the skinny as GF in to scope it out lol.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> man this same shit is actually happening to me right now (more spotting though) and i cant figure it out. i have 7 bubbas 3 of which have some yellow leaves, the rest look great all getting fed the same soup so im stumped but wont change anything unless more than 50% of the crop is effected, although new growth looks to be fine, just not sure o well lol.


sorry to hear because it isn't very pleasant watching leaves yellow and fall off and not really know wtf to do or wtf you're doing wrong.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> i will snap some pics of mine tomorrow, i was thinking maybe some pests but only on three? plus the canopy is so thick at this point i cant get my fat ass in there to get a good look lol time to send the skinny as GF in to scope it out lol.


 mighty wash as regular maintenance and you won't have a pest problem again. that leaf I posted was clean as a whistle.


----------



## drgreentm (Aug 10, 2011)

im usually pretty good about keeping them away but you know how it is, you let your guard down for one second and they attack so i will be checking tomorrow. anyway hope your ladies pull out with no trouble.


----------



## dbkick (Aug 10, 2011)

a fucking atomist is worth its weight in gold too, its a little harsh but very thorough .


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 11, 2011)

Hey drg you still using lucas?


----------



## drgreentm (Aug 11, 2011)

Sort of I use a little stronger dose than that think I'm using 10-15 M-B (kindof a medium between Lucas and gh's rec's) still don't exceed 1000ppm in flower using liquid kool bloom, calmag, dynagro pro teck, and Flora Nector. Also using dry Kool bloom powder for ripening


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 11, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> Sort of I use a little stronger dose than that think I'm using 10-15 M-B (kindof a medium between Lucas and gh's rec's) still don't exceed 1000ppm in flower using liquid kool bloom, calmag, dynagro pro teck, and Flora Nector. Also using dry Kool bloom powder for ripening


all that and your still geting some yellowing?


----------



## drgreentm (Aug 11, 2011)

ya but only on three, im pretty confident its not my formula but there are other things in play, all of the ones having some yellowing didnt have the greatest root production in veg, while all the others had MASSIVE roots these ones where much smaller although they all looked just as healthy as the rest. maybe just some weaklings in the bunch all the others look great right now.


----------



## Tamorin (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm not sure how it all goes down with the miss matching of diffrent companies but I use g.h. flora series recirculating schedule and my girls are fat as hell. I've been curiosity to see what the techniqual diffrence is between companies but with results I get I see no good reason to switch it up, until I switch to all organic.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 12, 2011)

Tamorin said:


> I'm not sure how it all goes down with the miss matching of diffrent companies but I use g.h. flora series recirculating schedule and my girls are fat as hell. I've been curiosity to see what the techniqual diffrence is between companies but with results I get I see no good reason to switch it up, until I switch to all organic.


there are big differences between companies. GH is the cheapest for sure, you can get good results but there is better stuff out there. i've used alot of different brands and they all have differences in growth patterns, how the leaves form everything. its pretty interesting to see. my current fav is house and garden


----------



## i81two (Aug 12, 2011)

I also use GH 3 part with Blend, kool (liquid and dry), diamond nectar, flora nectar and silica blast. I grow some monster buds.

AN (which i dont support) has come out with an exact duplicate of the GH 3 part, but for half the price. Its called Jungle Juice.

I am going to try it. http://www.advancednutrients.com/junglejuicegmb/


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 12, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> there are big differences between companies. GH is the cheapest for sure, you can get good results but there is better stuff out there. i've used alot of different brands and they all have differences in growth patterns, how the leaves form everything. its pretty interesting to see. my current fav is house and garden


im going to have to try house and garden sometime.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 12, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> im going to have to try house and garden sometime.


its amazing in flower. it works ok for veg but there are better nutes out there for veg. as far as flowering though house and garden hands down. no residue in your tanks so much easier to clean up


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 12, 2011)

il see if the local shops carry them, for some reason they carry all the super over priced shit


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 12, 2011)

its because there is more profit in it lol and noobs love to use shit with pretty pictures on the bottle


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 12, 2011)

yah I used to be that way ive been through 5 nute lines and im shooting for less is more in the $ department


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 12, 2011)

i have tried most of them just to see what worked better for my plants, and what i liked using more. house and garden is very predictable, and most of my plants have all loved it. im liking this new aptus stuff though. im flipping the plants soon so we will see hwo it goes


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 12, 2011)

aptus line hmm il google it never seen it before


----------



## drgreentm (Aug 12, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> i have tried most of them just to see what worked better for my plants, and what i liked using more. house and garden is very predictable, and most of my plants have all loved it. im liking this new aptus stuff though. im flipping the plants soon so we will see hwo it goes


 pretty crazy hearing that about H&G, havent really ever heard of them being all that great, but i guess you never know until you try it for yourself. i used a few of there additives and thought there price for there amount of production increase was ridiculous, although i have never tried there A&B maybe they would react better coupled with those but idk.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 12, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> pretty crazy hearing that about H&G, havent really ever heard of them being all that great, but i guess you never know until you try it for yourself. i used a few of there additives and thought there price for there amount of production increase was ridiculous, although i have never tried there A&B maybe they would react better coupled with those but idk.


most people bash them because of the price. i get great yields with their stuff i've never had an issue. i run them at much lower strength than they recomend though its suicide to run what their nute sched recomends.


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## drgreentm (Aug 12, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> most people bash them because of the price. i get great yields with their stuff i've never had an issue. i run them at much lower strength than they recomend though its suicide to run what their nute sched recomends.


 cool to hear that, i was REALLY interested in there stuff when i was looking into switching up nutes from flora nova (great stuff just a f'in mess to clean) to something new, ended up just going with the flora series and its been working pretty well. how clean are the nutes in the water with H&G??


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 12, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> cool to hear that, i was REALLY interested in there stuff when i was looking into switching up nutes from flora nova (great stuff just a f'in mess to clean) to something new, ended up just going with the flora series and its been working pretty well. how clean are the nutes in the water with H&G??


super clean. you were using better nutes with flora nova that is basically lucas formula with some extras in it. but you are right messy stuff. that is what i love about HG is how clean it is.


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## drgreentm (Aug 13, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> super clean. you were using better nutes with flora nova that is basically lucas formula with some extras in it. but you are right messy stuff. that is what i love about HG is how clean it is.


 the nova grew some great plants i used it for years, but my stuff is still stained from the use of it. there is no way i would run it in the E&G, the flora is pretty clean itself i like it.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 13, 2011)

The clean is why i went with AN but the bc is just as clean


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 13, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> the nova grew some great plants i used it for years, but my stuff is still stained from the use of it. there is no way i would run it in the E&G, the flora is pretty clean itself i like it.


flora is pretty clean unless you add floralicious that stuff is nasty organic shit stinks like shit and black and stains everything. just like nova. i LOVE nova in veg fucking amazing stuff, but cleanup is a bitch. i have dropped my paint mixer bit i use to mix my drum and i reach my whole arm in and pull it out no gunk stains or anything with HG. the murkiest stuff they make is roots excel because it is a benny. other than that everything is pretty much clear or a blueish color the B part of A+B is maroon. your water looks like watered down merlot wine


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## Tamorin (Aug 14, 2011)

Yeah Ive been trying to come up with a sloution to my want of using the ebb and grom top feed in my version with organics. But Ive noticed a few possible future issues. Such as the meduim i use is like insulation and I feel that with something like that I would have to use hydropton, no big deal. Then I actually called g.h. for info on their organic line they said not to use it in hydro, so that sucks. I guess what im gonna do in the end is come up with a proper recipe for comepost tea for veg and bloom maybe. I dont know unless someone has a all organic line I can use with this system. I love the system , want organics but I guess the question is can I have the best of both worlds ?


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 14, 2011)

Tamorin said:


> Yeah Ive been trying to come up with a sloution to my want of using the ebb and grom top feed in my version with organics. But Ive noticed a few possible future issues. Such as the meduim i use is like insulation and I feel that with something like that I would have to use hydropton, no big deal. Then I actually called g.h. for info on their organic line they said not to use it in hydro, so that sucks. I guess what im gonna do in the end is come up with a proper recipe for comepost tea for veg and bloom maybe. I dont know unless someone has a all organic line I can use with this system. I love the system , want organics but I guess the question is can I have the best of both worlds ?


APtus is a new nute line im testing its only additives you can use any base with them. they are all organic, but you need to change your res out every 3 days. anything organic is not gonna work well in hydro because it can clog up shit and make a big mess of things. that is why it is not recomended.


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## guati86 (Aug 14, 2011)

Just a quick question for you all. What do you guys think about the g13 labs pineapple express, white widow, and purple haze? I just got some from attitude and was vary surprised on the time it took. oh and they are feminized i am never goin to grow from bag seed again. I started with eighteen and ended up with 4 females.


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## dbkick (Aug 14, 2011)

Hell, I just changed res out to something similar to homebrewers formula but I found it to be a little what seems weak, it came up to about 900 ppm so I just added a little more bloom and some b52, lets see wtf happens next.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 14, 2011)

yah thats what homebrewer claims is all they need, im runing my bc run in the 1000 more isnt always good.


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## drgreentm (Aug 14, 2011)

i am actually running mine at 850 right now with everything, i like them a bit on the weak side, i hit them with the kool bloom at week 4 which get the ppm up to around 1000 but i never really go above that and like to keep it under.


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## dbkick (Aug 15, 2011)

I just barely go over 1000 most of the time, I've got the alarm set on the bluelab at 420 low(for the fuck of it) and 1200 is where I set the high alarm on ppm.right now its sitting at 1050 I think.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

dbkick said:


> I just barely go over 1000 most of the time, I've got the alarm set on the bluelab at 420 low(for the fuck of it) and 1200 is where I set the high alarm on ppm.right now its sitting at 1050 I think.


nice I havnt setup the alarm on mine


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## dbkick (Aug 15, 2011)

I have two and I think they're both set the same but I dunno, its not really a feature I cared to pay for but the meters are nice.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

yah blue lab is top notch in my book


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## dbkick (Aug 15, 2011)

and at the rate my skillz seem to be going I'll be pawning one of those just to buy meds :/
haha, actually not. thats what the day job is for.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

dbkick said:


> and at the rate my skillz seem to be going I'll be pawning one of those just to buy meds :/
> haha, actually not. thats what the day job is for.


how are thing going?


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## dbkick (Aug 15, 2011)

I fully intend to buy one more bluelab (after I recover from the rc frenzy I've found myself in) but it will be a portable.


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## dbkick (Aug 15, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> how are thing going?


 things are still turning a bit yellow way before they should I believe, got some clones in veg and am anxious to see how they do.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

ive got x2 gaurdians and x2 ph portables and a trunch ppm pen all rock and no issues


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## dbkick (Aug 15, 2011)

mr bluelab himself!


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

yah lol, im just glad I didnt go down the road everybody does and buy cheap shit before getting the good stuff.
some old school friends lined me out before buying anything. for years soil was my thing and ph wasnt a issue
but hydro it 80% of the game.


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## dbkick (Aug 15, 2011)

I didn't have a clue in the beginning and paid like 240 for a hanna pen, was a good pen for not quite a year but not worth the time replacing the probe, with the bluelabs I think the probes are like 60 bux, that won't be such a hard hit to the pocket as replacing a pen you'd end up tossing.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

dbkick said:


> I didn't have a clue in the beginning and paid like 240 for a hanna pen, was a good pen for not quite a year but not worth the time replacing the probe, with the bluelabs I think the probes are like 60 bux, that won't be such a hard hit to the pocket as replacing a pen you'd end up tossing.


very true.................DB


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## dbkick (Aug 15, 2011)

man its late and sunday, a fucked up combination , I'm am now out, see ya. oh and your stuffs looking real nice!


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks man laters


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## Phillip J Fry (Aug 15, 2011)

Well I plan to switch over to ebb&grow system very soon. I ordered a Monster control bucket (5 gallons). Has anyone had success making their own buckets? Or do you know of a site where i can order only the bottom buckets for the system? This thread is very long and don't have time to read every post so sry if you guys covered this already. 

Thanks a million


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## weednublet (Aug 15, 2011)

I intend to simply purchase rubbermaid tubs for the reservoirs.


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## Phillip J Fry (Aug 15, 2011)

one more question how long to you guys flood/drain for?


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

@ phil. I flood for 30 min x3 time a day in bloom
As for making your own just get 3/4 gromits
And get food safe 5 gal from lowes there 3 bucks


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## Phillip J Fry (Aug 15, 2011)

ok went and bought 5 gallon buckets from lowes along with a 64 gallon trash can for a res. Now i think ill order the grommets and hose/fittings from online.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

You can get the gromits at lowes to


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## drgreentm (Aug 15, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> You can get the gromits at lowes to


 i was just about to ask this cause im building my next 12 site expansion but couldnt find anything at home depot, fuckers dont even carry 2 gal buckets but they do at lowes.


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## dbkick (Aug 15, 2011)

Phillip J Fry said:


> Well I plan to switch over to ebb&grow system very soon. I ordered a Monster control bucket (5 gallons). Has anyone had success making their own buckets? Or do you know of a site where i can order only the bottom buckets for the system? This thread is very long and don't have time to read every post so sry if you guys covered this already.
> 
> Thanks a million


I've got a monster ebb and truthfully although buckets would be easy to make yourself they really aren't priced all that bad ready to go, if you figure 6 buckets at 7 bux apiece or so then the grommets and tubing the labor cost of making the buckets is small.


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## Phillip J Fry (Aug 15, 2011)

My local Lowes does not carry the 3/4" black vinyl hose. The guy at lowes said they didnt have those grommets either. Is there a site where i can order grommets, tube, and connectors? Can't wait to get this going!! Thanks for the help peoples! I just put a bunch of cuttings into riot rooter plugs, weeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 15, 2011)

Phillip J Fry said:


> My local Lowes does not carry the 3/4" black vinyl hose. The guy at lowes said they didnt have those grommets either. Is there a site where i can order grommets, tube, and connectors? Can't wait to get this going!! Thanks for the help peoples! I just put a bunch of cuttings into riot rooter plugs, weeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


hydrofarms.com
rmsupply
there made by cap so any dealer will have them


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## Ferredoxin (Aug 15, 2011)

My conversion to 3/4" PVC went very well. The buckets flood more or less at the same rate, and much quicker. The drain cycle also goes faster. I had a problem in my first go-around in this system where the roots grew into the tubing and plugged it up a bit. When this happens, all the plants further down the chain suffer. With the setup now, this either wont happen or will be very easy to remedy.
Thanks to hellraizer for the ingenuity! I really recommend this conversion. It cost me about $100 and 2 evenings of work for 24 buckets, but I could have done it for cheaper if I would have thought ahead a little bit.

Here are a few pics...


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 15, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> My conversion to 3/4" PVC went very well. The buckets flood more or less at the same rate, and much quicker. The drain cycle also goes faster. I had a problem in my first go-around in this system where the roots grew into the tubing and plugged it up a bit. When this happens, all the plants further down the chain suffer. With the setup now, this either wont happen or will be very easy to remedy.
> Thanks to hellraizer for the ingenuity! I really recommend this conversion. It cost me about $100 and 2 evenings of work for 24 buckets, but I could have done it for cheaper if I would have thought ahead a little bit.
> 
> Here are a few pics...
> View attachment 1737762View attachment 1737763View attachment 1737764View attachment 1737765


nice greentrees upgraded their buckets to runn 3/4" tubing sooo much better i'll post pics of the buckets


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## Osburn (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, the Qrazy Trains have officially left the station. They're only a month into flower and I'm already getting some fat buds. Can't imagine what they'll look like in a month. I've been bending the hell out of them because they're getting so tall and they're reacting really well to the stress. I picked up one of the interior buckets to check out the roots and they were healthier than any roots I had using DWC one month into flower. I'm really starting to love this monster system.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 16, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> My conversion to 3/4" PVC went very well. The buckets flood more or less at the same rate, and much quicker. The drain cycle also goes faster. I had a problem in my first go-around in this system where the roots grew into the tubing and plugged it up a bit. When this happens, all the plants further down the chain suffer. With the setup now, this either wont happen or will be very easy to remedy.
> Thanks to hellraizer for the ingenuity! I really recommend this conversion. It cost me about $100 and 2 evenings of work for 24 buckets, but I could have done it for cheaper if I would have thought ahead a little bit.
> 
> Here are a few pics...
> View attachment 1737762View attachment 1737763View attachment 1737764View attachment 1737765


Nicely done! You will like it alot


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 16, 2011)

Osburn said:


> Well, the Qrazy Trains have officially left the station. They're only a month into flower and I'm already getting some fat buds. Can't imagine what they'll look like in a month. I've been bending the hell out of them because they're getting so tall and they're reacting really well to the stress. I picked up one of the interior buckets to check out the roots and they were healthier than any roots I had using DWC one month into flower. I'm really starting to love this monster system.


Looking good osbum


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## jcannons (Aug 16, 2011)

Well I had my first flood last night.....25 gallons of water pumped onto the floor and down through the ceiling to the first floor....... I can't seem to figure out why. When I went into the grow room, the pump "out" pump was running even though the control bucket was empty. My first reaction was to unplug everything. Now that I have plugged it back in, everything seems to be normal.... WTF? The pump "In" obviously didn't shut off for some reason because the barrel is empty..... Anyone else have this experience?

J


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## drgreentm (Aug 16, 2011)

jcannons said:


> Well I had my first flood last night.....25 gallons of water pumped onto the floor and down through the ceiling to the first floor....... I can't seem to figure out why. When I went into the grow room, the pump "out" pump was running even though the control bucket was empty. My first reaction was to unplug everything. Now that I have plugged it back in, everything seems to be normal.... WTF? The pump "In" obviously didn't shut off for some reason because the barrel is empty..... Anyone else have this experience?
> 
> J


 sometimes my controller gets stuck on the fill setting so even though the brain says its on a drain cycle, all the buckets are full of water. i unplug it and plug it back in and evberything starts running perfect (only happened twice) i noticed it was everytime i moved it around or had to unplug it and plug it back in a few time for maintenance. that sucks though man sorry to hear that.


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## Phillip J Fry (Aug 16, 2011)

Cut clones of Recon, Blueberry, No Name, and Special Kush #1 last night and put into the rooters. Looks like my local Home Depot carries all the parts to finish my build. Now to figure out how I am gonna veg, maybe a flood table?? hmm. Want to keep 4 moms and 4 vegging plants at all times. My veg room is ~3"x8". Was thinking about using a 3"x4" table since it would fit right under my T-5. I want it to be around 6-8 inches deep filling it to about 4-5". I was gonna leave the tray empty other than the eight pots filled with hydron. How big of a res you recon I need for a table like that?


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 16, 2011)

jcannons said:


> Well I had my first flood last night.....25 gallons of water pumped onto the floor and down through the ceiling to the first floor....... I can't seem to figure out why. When I went into the grow room, the pump "out" pump was running even though the control bucket was empty. My first reaction was to unplug everything. Now that I have plugged it back in, everything seems to be normal.... WTF? The pump "In" obviously didn't shut off for some reason because the barrel is empty..... Anyone else have this experience?
> 
> J


Only when the syphon hole gets plugged


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## med4u (Aug 18, 2011)

Phillip J Fry said:


> ok went and bought 5 gallon buckets from lowes along with a 64 gallon trash can for a res. Now i think ill order the grommets and hose/fittings from online.


 
pjf,you may want to try and fill that trash can outside first,64 gals is a bunch for a flimsy can,55 gal drums can be had at your local car wash,i get em for 10 bux,and clean em out real good,jus a suggestion good luck


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## Phillip J Fry (Aug 18, 2011)

med4u said:


> pjf,you may want to try and fill that trash can outside first,64 gals is a bunch for a flimsy can,55 gal drums can be had at your local car wash,i get em for 10 bux,and clean em out real good,jus a suggestion good luck


Thanks

But this trash can is not your run of the mill can, it is super heavy duty. 
http://www.lowes.com/pd_20990-60948-00723105200020_0__?productId=3024255&Ntt=trash+can&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dtrash%2Bcan&facetInfo=
but ya i understand since i got a regular trash can for my R/O res. It is not that easy to find a good clean 55 gallon drum around me.


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 18, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> For what it's worth...
> 
> Preparing a microbe tea outside of the res is not necessary in an ebb and flow setup. We do it in DWC when the system has been shown to be prone to root slime because the slime can feed off the food before the bennies and outgrow them. In my experience, prevention of this type of slime is inherent to an ebb and flow system as the roots sit in air most of the time. So, for ebb and flow, breeding them in the res makes sense. Just dump in some GW powder and some food every once in a while and be done with it.
> 
> ...




just found this related to those bennies we were discussing before he says you CAN breed them and feed them in ur res in ebb and flow just not DWC


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 19, 2011)

As for benny i would go with a tea its simple
And cheap look up heisenberg thread its a gem


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## dbkick (Aug 20, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> As for benny i would go with a tea its simple
> And cheap look up heisenberg thread its a gem


 I really see no difference in the homebrewed stuff or just tossing in some great white, if you have to get really anal maybe some voodoo juice .Other than I did end up with a slime issue from the homebrew, an earlier version I guess but still the same difference. Again its just easier to buy a couple ready to go products instead of bubbling worm castings.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 20, 2011)

Well you could do that bckick but im looking at the cost everything it take to make a years worth of tea is like 150$
And bottled stuff would cost a arm and a leg.


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## dbkick (Aug 20, 2011)

I've been told to basically discontinue bennies at like 2 weeks into flower, I suppose that may be because theres already a population in the media and probably more or less a waste , I didn't question why but the dude was selling me great white(at like 40 percent discount) and if he truely didn't believe this he wouldn't have told me, he would want me to use more more more.


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## dbkick (Aug 20, 2011)

oh and also ....from my tea brewing days I remember something about foliar spraying with ewc tea, possibly to prevent or cure molds and mildew but the details I blurry and I don't think anyone ever did reply to the question.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 24, 2011)

Ok, this is what my current plan is... I just bought a refurb 12 site normal size unit. I was planning on using 8 of the buckets for mother plants only. Would a 400w mh be enough for this? I'm planning on it being in a 4x4 tent. Is this enough room for 8 mothers??? I plan to have 2 different strains, so 4 mothers will be one strain, and the other 4 another strain. I need approximately 40 clones of each strain every 70 days. Do you think this is an ok plan? This is a perpetual lollipop sog grow.

Please help


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## drgreentm (Aug 24, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Ok, this is what my current plan is... I just bought a refurb 12 site normal size unit. I was planning on using 8 of the buckets for mother plants only. Would a 400w mh be enough for this? I'm planning on it being in a 4x4 tent. Is this enough room for 8 mothers??? I plan to have 2 different strains, so 4 mothers will be one strain, and the other 4 another strain. I need approximately 40 clones of each strain every 70 days. Do you think this is an ok plan? This is a perpetual lollipop sog grow.
> 
> Please help


 well for the light i would go with a good t5 fixture, i just went out and bought a 400w mh for my mothers and my 6 bulb t5 fixture just kills it imo, i am wanting to veg 8 moms too but am only vegging 3 mothers right now under it but am not even going to try to fit all 8, im just going to get another 8 bulb t5 for them.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 24, 2011)

Hmmm. why is the T5 better? I already have the 400w MH.


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## drgreentm (Aug 24, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Hmmm. why is the T5 better? I already have the 400w MH.


 well my 4' 6 bulb is brighter from what i can see, it covers a much larger area also. i just dont like the mh, i have wanted to try one for a while now i got one and dont like it, for the money i could have bought another t5 but o well i learned my lesson. but if you got the mh already give it a go but im pretty certain it wont cover 8 buckets hell mine is in a cool tube and it bearly covers my 2x4 flood tray for veg.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah, it will have to do for now... I'll see about getting t5s. Less wattage is a plus anyway.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 24, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Ok, this is what my current plan is... I just bought a refurb 12 site normal size unit. I was planning on using 8 of the buckets for mother plants only. Would a 400w mh be enough for this? I'm planning on it being in a 4x4 tent. Is this enough room for 8 mothers??? I plan to have 2 different strains, so 4 mothers will be one strain, and the other 4 another strain. I need approximately 40 clones of each strain every 70 days. Do you think this is an ok plan? This is a perpetual lollipop sog grow.
> 
> Please help


I think one or two good mothers will give you all you could ever
Want every 70 days so x2 strains x2 mothers each strain still would
Be to big for a 4x4


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, you think 6 would be ok? I didn't think I was supposed to run less than 6 buckets with the system. I want the clones to be about 8-10" tall, so that is why I was wanting so many mothers.

I already have the 4x4 tent, and the 400w mh.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 24, 2011)

Dam your going to be takeing that big of clone?
If you keep the moms small you could have 8 if
You wanted just going to be crouded.
As for how many buckets ive got a ebb with just
1 bucket, just dont fill the res all the way up just a waist


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 24, 2011)

Alright, that's what I figured. Yeah, I'm shooting for the LEAST amount of veg possible. I want to go from clone to flower. Basically letting the mothers do the vegging. I'm not sure how well this works, but I'm thinking multiple smaller mothers would be best. Then just keep recycling mothers. I'm not sure if the clones will need to be that big, but I'm guessing that will have to be close to what I need.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 24, 2011)

Shit al b fuct did it and it kicked ass


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah, that's what I'm trying for, but I don't get how he got such huge thick clones from such smallish mothers.


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## Phillip J Fry (Aug 24, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Yeah, that's what I'm trying for, but I don't get how he got such huge thick clones from such smallish mothers.


genetics help I am sure. Prob also helps to have ample space for each mother to veg out. I would think you would be better off training fewer mothers into bushes but idk since this is not my growing style.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 25, 2011)

I had a quick question. Which pump/hose do I put the check valve on? I would assume it is in between the 55 gallon drum pump, and the controller bucket, but the manual says to put it in between the bucket controller, and the 55 gallon drum.... ? Am I just not understanding it right? Which one is it?

OK, think I found the answer finally... 



hellraizer30 said:


> the pump is triping due to water coming back down to the control box and triping the pump to turn on, this will keep happening!
> you need to get a check valve or shorten up the hose leaving the box to the res, lees hose = less water. this is why puttinng the
> box right next to the res is key! but all this can be averted by pluting the check valve as close to the control box as possable.
> your pump will not last long tripping like that so a fix needs to happen


So the check valve IS for the controller bucket's pump. (they really should explain why in the instructions like you did here). I assumed it was so water wouldn't be siphoned back out of the 55 gallon drum from that other pumps line, but I guess that isn't an issue.


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## dbkick (Aug 25, 2011)

the check valve isn't needed in units with two float switches , theres a delay built into the on cycle that suppose to address the issue.


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## dbkick (Aug 25, 2011)

I just bought the monster ebb and its the newer version, I bought a check valve because I saw issues in the pump running too long due to just what hellraizer said, water coming back down the tubing , how a delay in the on cycle would help I don't know.


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## dbkick (Aug 25, 2011)

I should have gone on to say cap being the cheap fucks that they are charged me 17 dollars plus shipping for the valve, I actually ordered two but when I heard cap was price gouging it (in my mind) I told my hydro shop guy to send them back, I'd pay shipping. but I decided to buy one and he liked the idea of having one around the shop just in case.Had I not bought the valve I think I would have been looking at pump failure before long , if that didn't mean a possible dead ass garden I would have just run it and let them replace the pump instead of giving me a check valve.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 25, 2011)

I bought a factory refurb, and I would assume all of the major problems have been fixed. You never know though...


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 25, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> I had a quick question. Which pump/hose do I put the check valve on? I would assume it is in between the 55 gallon drum pump, and the controller bucket, but the manual says to put it in between the bucket controller, and the 55 gallon drum.... ? Am I just not understanding it right? Which one is it?
> 
> OK, think I found the answer finally...
> 
> ...


check valve goes on the hose that pumps back to the res tank (from the control box)
hey hornedfrog come check out my journal


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 27, 2011)

Is the bottom float switch supposed to be at a slight angle? Mine came in tilted slightly...


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 27, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Is the bottom float switch supposed to be at a slight angle? Mine came in tilted slightly...


Yes it it ....................


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## dbkick (Aug 28, 2011)

This post may be a little out of place but I kinda think of this as a place to ask whatever and not have to track yet another thread, plus I like MOST all you fucks here! But look at this......thats a photo of a leaf from a indica dom thats been in the same system as the sativa dom sour d I have in the other sites. The sour d showed signs of tip burns and then the leaves totally started turning yellow like over night , it was just random ones here and there, I supposed I started at too high a nutrient level and saw this when the sour d started yellowing but the indica just started showing signs a lot later but got much more severe even though I cut nutes by 300 ppm and shortened flood times. so by this picture wtf is it I'm doing wrong?


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 28, 2011)

looks more red than purple so im thinking to much nutes ima have to stew on this one il hit you back up


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## dbkick (Aug 28, 2011)

well, thats what its looking like to me but I backed off the nutes soon ater the sour d showed signs of yellowing, last grow I saw it as a def and bumped the nutes up. I think I'm starting them too high in flower, they come out of veg at 1200 ppm or so and I put them in flower at like 1000 due to thats what the nutrient feeding schedule says, i suppose I need to customize that or just keep things low, we'll see in a few weeks or so.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 28, 2011)

im shure you said but what type of nutes?


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## dbkick (Aug 28, 2011)

dynagro although I may have started them with sensibloom and AN stuff.


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## dbkick (Aug 28, 2011)

jesus you're here a lot :/
Must keep a laptop with cams going so you can watch your tents in realtime! That and riu.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 28, 2011)

dbkick said:


> jesus you're here a lot :/
> Must keep a laptop with cams going so you can watch your tents in realtime! That and riu.


smart phone help lol


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## dbkick (Aug 28, 2011)

right on, some netflix and some nice big rips of this wax I bought off craigslist gonna do me in for the nite, see you later!


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 28, 2011)

dbkick said:


> dynagro although I may have started them with sensibloom and AN stuff.


Id get with homebrewer hes the DG proffesional


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## dbkick (Aug 28, 2011)

two goddamn little ol ladies sold me the shit btw, haha, I'm 50 and little ol ladies are peddling me hash on craigslist, nice shit too, 90+ %.


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## dbkick (Aug 28, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Id get with homebrewer hes the DG proffesional


 he and I had words earlier on and I'm sure he can't get around things like I can.


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## dbkick (Aug 28, 2011)

I think this is a issue of too much nutes, I'm gonna start flower at like 420-500 seeing how my water is coming in at 140 ppm, a little high for here. that may change with winter I suppose, and temps.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 28, 2011)

had no idea that happened sorry to steer your that way, but it sounds like your on the right track just remember a simple salution is always dulution


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 30, 2011)

FINALLY got my ebb grow setup. Only one thing, I have a leak by the check valve. Is vasoline the best thing to use to stop the leak?


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 30, 2011)

Hose clamps are best


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## hornedfrog2000 (Aug 30, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hose clamps are best



Hmm. I used those little click clamps that came with, but had no instructions. I'm still getting leaking at the check valve though... I don't want to use silicone because I have to change the hoses from time to time. Any recommendation on what clamps?


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## Refusedpanda (Aug 30, 2011)

Hi All, I'm about to drop some money on a ebb bucket(CAP) or table system. The guy at the hydro store says the buckets are bad and the table is the way to go. This was because he said the buckets and lines are a pain in the ass to clean. He also said both are not the same systems. Pardon me if I'm wrong but aren't both flood type systems? One being on tables and the other individual sites.

I'm currently on a hand water system/drain to waste with Coco and I want something more automated. CAP ebb n grow seems to be the way. And I like that I can still use Coco with this system, but I may go hydroton to start since it seems to be the most common used medium.

Thanks to all who reply.


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## drgreentm (Aug 30, 2011)

Refusedpanda said:


> Hi All, I'm about to drop some money on a ebb bucket(CAP) or table system. The guy at the hydro store says the buckets are bad and the table is the way to go. This was because he said the buckets and lines are a pain in the ass to clean. He also said both are not the same systems. Pardon me if I'm wrong but aren't both flood type systems? One being on tables and the other individual sites.
> 
> I'm currently on a hand water system/drain to waste with Coco and I want something more automated. CAP ebb n grow seems to be the way. And I like that I can still use Coco with this system, but I may go hydroton to start since it seems to be the most common used medium.
> 
> Thanks to all who reply.


yes they are both flood and drain systems, flood tables are great for sog style growers but are not even comparable to the ebb and grow for larger plants. the system can be a pain sometimes but nothing substantial enough to drive someone away from running one, the tubing can be replaced with every grow if you want it really is simple and the hose can be had at pretty much any hardware store for cheap. the hydro shop i shopped at gave me the same bit but i got one anyway and havent looked back my system has been great so far.


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## Refusedpanda (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanks for the words of encouragement Dr. I went ahead and dropped the money for the ebb n grow, regular system. I called around and a shop had one sitting and I got a pretty good deal $355 out the door. Cheapest online I could find was $360 w/o shipping, so I think I got a deal. I can't wait for things to be automated. I'll be posting pics once its all hooked up.

Quick general question, the instructions say the system runs best with 6 or more. Can I run less and be ok? I guess I would have to re-route the 3 outlets on one side back in? Right...


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## jdmcwestevo (Aug 30, 2011)

dbkick said:


> I think this is a issue of too much nutes, I'm gonna start flower at like 420-500 seeing how my water is coming in at 140 ppm, a little high for here. that may change with winter I suppose, and temps.


on my soil experiment im using just brita filtered water left out 24 hours for extra safety. it tests out at like 550ppm to start and the plants are fine. im just too lazy to bring over one of my RO from the shop and have to install it etc.


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## Phillip J Fry (Aug 30, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Hmm. I used those little click clamps that came with, but had no instructions. I'm still getting leaking at the check valve though... I don't want to use silicone because I have to change the hoses from time to time. Any recommendation on what clamps?


metal adjustable hose clamp with a piece of rubber in it to go over the leaking hole.


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## Scoopdizzle (Sep 2, 2011)

Ok i have a question!! Im not sure if this question has already been asked... because this thread is waaaay too long and personally i just dont have time to read through EVERYTHING. So here it is...as simple as it may be. Im running a 6 bucket ebb n gro system. Im running 2 strains... OG kush (5) and Blue Dream (1). Im 55 days into flower and the blue dream is showing a few amber trichs indicating it will be ready for the final flush in a week or two...However the OG kush plants look like they may need 2-4 more weeks until the final flush. My question is how the F**K am i supposed to to flush one with out flushing the other in an ebb n gro system?????? This has been boggling me for about a week already so i figured i ask you vets in the room on how to approach this issue. ANY suggestions are very much appreciated. Much Love! Smoke on!


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 2, 2011)

Scoopdizzle said:


> Ok i have a question!! Im not sure if this question has already been asked... because this thread is waaaay too long and personally i just dont have time to read through EVERYTHING. So here it is...as simple as it may be. Im running a 6 bucket ebb n gro system. Im running 2 strains... OG kush (5) and Blue Dream (1). Im 55 days into flower and the blue dream is showing a few amber trichs indicating it will be ready for the final flush in a week or two...However the OG kush plants look like they may need 2-4 more weeks until the final flush. My question is how the F**K am i supposed to to flush one with out flushing the other in an ebb n gro system?????? This has been boggling me for about a week already so i figured i ask you vets in the room on how to approach this issue. ANY suggestions are very much appreciated. Much Love! Smoke on!


sounds like a very early blue dream my experience they go a bit longer than 8 weeks closer to 9 1/2 just dont flush. not a big deal honestly pull it and dry it if u want. i personally would go more amber like 50/50 atleast. also the OG should do around 9 week as well.


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## Scoopdizzle (Sep 2, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> sounds like a very early blue dream my experience they go a bit longer than 8 weeks closer to 9 1/2 just dont flush. not a big deal honestly pull it and dry it if u want. i personally would go more amber like 50/50 atleast. also the OG should do around 9 week as well.


Well actually this monday coming up will be the start of week 9, and was planning on flushing 7-14 days as i want the best tasting OG and BD possible. So really it all adds up the above mentioned time for these strains....but ill tell you now...the OG is far behind the BD.....I may have to push the OG 70 days or more from the looks of it........now in response to NOT flushing.....I dont think thats an option for me...Im really into QUALITY buds and i think a flush done properly does wonders when smoking/vaping. I also tend to bitch if i buy meds from the dispensary and my meds arent flushed right (burning black, cracking and so forth). I am more so looking for a method to get both plants flush using this system. Or do i have to take the loss and flush at the same and have my OG suffer a bit from not eating so loooong???

Thanks for the input though!


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 2, 2011)

Scoopdizzle said:


> Well actually this monday coming up will be the start of week 9, and was planning on flushing 7-14 days as i want the best tasting OG and BD possible. So really it all adds up the above mentioned time for these strains....but ill tell you now...the OG is far behind the BD.....I may have to push the OG 70 days or more from the looks of it........now in response to NOT flushing.....I dont think thats an option for me...Im really into QUALITY buds and i think a flush done properly does wonders when smoking/vaping. I also tend to bitch if i buy meds from the dispensary and my meds arent flushed right (burning black, cracking and so forth). I am more so looking for a method to get both plants flush using this system. Or do i have to take the loss and flush at the same and have my OG suffer a bit from not eating so loooong???
> 
> Thanks for the input though!


i "flush" for 3 days my buds burn light gray ash no cracking or popping of any kind. i had a dispensary for a long long time in socal and im opening a new one now and i have never had any complaints from my bud from patients. and 7-14 weeks is a long ass time to flush man. but back to the ebb and flow thing. its not a great system for multiple strains with different finishing times as you have found out.


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## Scoopdizzle (Sep 2, 2011)

Nice! Heres the thing...I use house and garden nutes and i skipped out on the drip clean, however ive been doing res changes every 2 weeks and when i do a res change i flush for one day and then jump back on nutes ( i also use tap water at 250ppm yikes) .....so with that said...maybe i can get away with 3-5 day flush considering i have flushed throughout the cycle so far... Thanks for that info!! im gonna take you up on that! Hopefully my buds burn grey and still taste amazing...bkus these strains are well know for both of those qualities and i dont wanna downgrade the strain if you know what i mean......lols And yes i think on my next go around ill stick with one strain if im still using ebb n gro....i may do a scrog or something i dont know...


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 3, 2011)

Scoopdizzle said:


> Nice! Heres the thing...I use house and garden nutes and i skipped out on the drip clean, however ive been doing res changes every 2 weeks and when i do a res change i flush for one day and then jump back on nutes ( i also use tap water at 250ppm yikes) .....so with that said...maybe i can get away with 3-5 day flush considering i have flushed throughout the cycle so far... Thanks for that info!! im gonna take you up on that! Hopefully my buds burn grey and still taste amazing...bkus these strains are well know for both of those qualities and i dont wanna downgrade the strain if you know what i mean......lols And yes i think on my next go around ill stick with one strain if im still using ebb n gro....i may do a scrog or something i dont know...


also you should do res change weekly if u want better quality buds as well that is much more important than the flush drip clean works wonders man


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## Refusedpanda (Sep 3, 2011)

Hi All, the top valve in the control bucket doesnt seem to click on its own, I need to actually touch it for it to stop the fill. Any suggestions?


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 3, 2011)

Refusedpanda said:


> Hi All, the top valve in the control bucket doesnt seem to click on its own, I need to actually touch it for it to stop the fill. Any suggestions?


is it dirty? if it not turning off and it will over flow you might need to call cap, never had one go out so im
not up to speed on what to do in this case.


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## Refusedpanda (Sep 3, 2011)

HR thanks for the reply man. It was not dirty at all, but just didn't really trigger the sensor. I did manage to solve the problem by adjusting the fill hose to the controller box to dump and flow up towards the top float switch. This allowed the float to jiggle more and operate as normal. It was frustrating because the switch wasn't broken, but system is working now so woot!

When I had that hose dumping in the middle it would just fill up and the water would go over the float on the switch and just flood out, really weird. Now water doesn't make it over the float on the swtich!


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 3, 2011)

Refusedpanda said:


> HR thanks for the reply man. It was not dirty at all, but just didn't really trigger the sensor. I did manage to solve the problem by adjusting the fill hose to the controller box to dump and flow up towards the top float switch. This allowed the float to jiggle more and operate as normal. It was frustrating because the switch wasn't broken, but system is working now so woot!
> 
> When I had that hose dumping in the middle it would just fill up and the water would go over the float on the switch and just flood out, really weird. Now water doesn't make it over the float on the swtich!


cudos for fixing it but your not worried you will be gone sometime and it just flood the area?


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## Refusedpanda (Sep 4, 2011)

I think I will be fine, as mentioned the switch itself was not broken just not getting the right water flow. It was weird that it had to have some rough water to make it work correctly. I am a little worried about it flooding but I watched it go through a few cycles and it was operating correctly. Do you think I have to much faith in CAP? LOL


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 4, 2011)

In a way yes but ive had great luck so who knows.


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## Refusedpanda (Sep 5, 2011)

Ok, so you jinxed me. After running the set up outside and seeing it worked well I went ahead and moved it into the tent and plugged it in. On the first fill, damn top float didn't want to trigger yet again. Bastard. I then went back to adjusting the hose and seeing if I could get it to build more wake under the top float, failed. I even added a 90 degree to make it jet more, again fail.While I was blow drying a piece of hose to get it to straighten out, the fill cycle was still on and when I came back it was working on its own without the hose connected to the fill barb. I let it sit and watch it drain and fill for a few cycles and its worked fine/perfect with out that fill hose. Weird right...

I don't see a need for it since it just directs the water down into the control bucket, so I'm leaving it out for now. Besides the water shooting down and out from the fill barb is creating enough wake in the water to make the trigger work on its own. 

I hope this is the last time I have to mess with this...but I think I'm asking for to much LOL.


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## Ferredoxin (Sep 5, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> also you should do res change weekly if u want better quality buds as well that is much more important than the flush drip clean works wonders man


I changed weekly on my last grow, and was told by multiple people that weekly is too often. Some suggested 2-3 weeks, and researchkitty said she goes the whole grow without dumping. I went the first 3 weeks of flower this time around without dumping, and I see no difference compared to weekly changes. I started out a little hot with the nutes (1000ppm), so I only added back nutes once in that three weeks @ 1/4 strength....the rest was fresh water. The Sour D's are now 4 feet tall and budding like crazy. My GDPs (on same system) are much shorter but very healthy.


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 5, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> I changed weekly on my last grow, and was told by multiple people that weekly is too often. Some suggested 2-3 weeks, and researchkitty said she goes the whole grow without dumping. I went the first 3 weeks of flower this time around without dumping, and I see no difference compared to weekly changes. I started out a little hot with the nutes (1000ppm), so I only added back nutes once in that three weeks @ 1/4 strength....the rest was fresh water. The Sour D's are now 4 feet tall and budding like crazy. My GDPs (on same system) are much shorter but very healthy.


you want fresh nutes every week for a lot of reasons. #1 reason is that the plants dont take all the stuff in that water! lets say you have 10 parts of N P K right if the plant eats 8 parts N 2 parts p and k that would leave 2N 8P 8K right. if u add another 10 of each with ur nutes u add without draining out the old you now have toxic levels of p and k.....even though your meter might read your proper EC. also that can lead to very hard to diagnose issues like nute lockout too much P can lock out calcium...that can be tricky to figure out. also if you have any type of virus or disease like pithium if u dont change ur res every week it will spread very easily and grow much worse. 

you can go 2 weeks if you want, but to get AA+ meds you need to meticulous on ur nutes. end of the day the plants will grow etc., but if you want the BEST that is what you do. ideally drain to waste is the best because fresh nutes EVERY feeding.


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## Ferredoxin (Sep 5, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> you want fresh nutes every week for a lot of reasons. #1 reason is that the plants dont take all the stuff in that water! lets say you have 10 parts of N P K right if the plant eats 8 parts N 2 parts p and k that would leave 2N 8P 8K right. if u add another 10 of each with ur nutes u add without draining out the old you now have toxic levels of p and k.....even though your meter might read your proper EC. also that can lead to very hard to diagnose issues like nute lockout too much P can lock out calcium...that can be tricky to figure out. also if you have any type of virus or disease like pithium if u dont change ur res every week it will spread very easily and grow much worse.
> 
> you can go 2 weeks if you want, but to get AA+ meds you need to meticulous on ur nutes. end of the day the plants will grow etc., but if you want the BEST that is what you do. ideally drain to waste is the best because fresh nutes EVERY feeding.


I see where you are coming from. I had that strategy on my previous grows. This time around I changed things up, and I see no real difference yet. Same strain, nutes, etc...only longer intervals between dumps. I have no deficiency symptoms, and all plants are healthy and strong. I am only 3 weeks in flower, so we will see how it goes from here. I run a str8 1:1:1 of GH Flora @ EC ~1.8 with Protekt & Koolbloom supplements. I dont see how people run Lucas. With my tapwater (200ppm) I come close to EC 3.0 doing 8/16 per gal. I have toasted plants with numbers that high!

Go a few pages back in this thread where I asked about this same topic. The consensus seemed to be that dumping/refilling weekly was too often.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 5, 2011)

I like 14 days if I have to il go three weeks although I cant see a difference in 2 to 3 weeks, but if I could somehow keep the cost down
on nutes I would go every week.


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 6, 2011)

lol i DIE if i cant change every 7 days. with aptus i have to change every 3 days lol because all the sups are organic so they cant sit in a res that long


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 6, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> I see where you are coming from. I had that strategy on my previous grows. This time around I changed things up, and I see no real difference yet. Same strain, nutes, etc...only longer intervals between dumps. I have no deficiency symptoms, and all plants are healthy and strong. I am only 3 weeks in flower, so we will see how it goes from here. I run a str8 1:1:1 of GH Flora @ EC ~1.8 with Protekt & Koolbloom supplements. I dont see how people run Lucas. With my tapwater (200ppm) I come close to EC 3.0 doing 8/16 per gal. I have toasted plants with numbers that high!
> 
> Go a few pages back in this thread where I asked about this same topic. The consensus seemed to be that dumping/refilling weekly was too often.


1.8ec is high for my taste honestly. i dont like going over 1.4ec at most.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 6, 2011)

Wow 3days thats crazy man


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 6, 2011)

gotta do it man. it works out since the nutes are super concentrated only like 1ml/gallon for most of it. the cost works out to be cheaper than everything except GH


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 6, 2011)

Any longer and you have issue in the res huh?


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 6, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Any longer and you have issue in the res huh?


it can get messy lol its all organic 100% so the p boost especialy smells like straight SHIT. i almost puked the first time i opened it horrible. but shit works killer. it is holding its own against HG in my CMH test so we will see what final results are i just fed them thier week 3 nutes so i hit them hard to get a nice jolt out of them.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 6, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> it can get messy lol its all organic 100% so the p boost especialy smells like straight SHIT. i almost puked the first time i opened it horrible. but shit works killer. it is holding its own against HG in my CMH test so we will see what final results are i just fed them thier week 3 nutes so i hit them hard to get a nice jolt out of them.


Sweet sounds like you got it all dailed in, im to chickin to use a full organic line in my ebb lol


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 6, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Sweet sounds like you got it all dailed in, im to chickin to use a full organic line in my ebb lol


i have 3/4" hose lol what the worst that can happen.... like i said as long as u change res every 3-4 days should be fine


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 6, 2011)

Hey jdm you think if i just replaced the control box with the green leaves that would get the beast of the systen?


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 6, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey jdm you think if i just replaced the control box with the green leaves that would get the beast of the systen?


it would be a HUGE improvement that is the vast majority of the problems with the CAP system


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 6, 2011)

Was hopeing that would be the case, after all the rest is a 55res and buckets


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 6, 2011)

Green leaves makes a controller?
I build aquahub kits. They are good and easy.


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## dbkick (Sep 8, 2011)

Looking for some advice on making a ebb monster rdwc, man I hate roks.


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## dbkick (Sep 8, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey jdm you think if i just replaced the control box with the green leaves that would get the beast of the systen?


 Yo why jump ship? you don't like cap anymore? your 3 have let you down?


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 9, 2011)

No nothing has let me down lol just the green leaves one lets you control the water level by a movable floats


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## dbkick (Sep 9, 2011)

I've been pondering how to implement this controller bucket into rdwc, all I've come up with is daisy chaining 3 coolers thru the drains,I've determined its confusing as fuck but I'm thinking I'll take the drain pump and put it on a cycle timer, this pump will go in the last cooler in the chain and will pump back to the 55 gal main res and thru the chiller in some way, I'll cycle it just because I don't really need constant circulation. The fill pump will be left untouched and will be plugged into fill outlet of the control bucket. All tabs will be set to the on position. Am I headed in the right direction? So I forgot to mention, the drain cycle outlet on the control bucket won't be used.


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## dbkick (Sep 9, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> No nothing has let me down lol just the green leaves one lets you control the water level by a movable floats


This would be a nice feature.Would be a pretty easy mode to a CAP bucket but if its already done.... I actually was making a system that used a JBJ auto top off( a couple of float switches with brackets for mounting and a small control unit for turning on pumps, they're used in reef aquariums mainly or some shit, I had a problem with it , had something to do with the application, the support team said they never had seen that problem in the 9 years they've produced the unit, its actually pretty slick and if applied correctly .


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## dbkick (Sep 9, 2011)

ok then.....anyone......anyone.....


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 9, 2011)

dbkick said:


> This would be a nice feature.Would be a pretty easy mode to a CAP bucket but if its already done.... I actually was making a system that used a JBJ auto top off( a couple of float switches with brackets for mounting and a small control unit for turning on pumps, they're used in reef aquariums mainly or some shit, I had a problem with it , had something to do with the application, the support team said they never had seen that problem in the 9 years they've produced the unit, its actually pretty slick and if applied correctly .


the greentrees also has BETTER floats instead of those shitty finger things


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## dbkick (Sep 10, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> the greentrees also has BETTER floats instead of those shitty finger things


 You'd have to define "better" , the shitty little finger things work pretty damn well.


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## Refusedpanda (Sep 10, 2011)

Yeah I would like to hear about the greentrees floats. I'm kind of sick of having to macgyver stuff to make the system work as intended. I'm thinking of swapping the control bucket and changing all the poorly molded raindrip fittings out. Some of the barbs on the fittings are rounded which cause water to slip by under pressure. I was going nuts double zip tying shit to make it not leak it and still would leak. Thats when I took a real close look at the fittings, probably 1/2 of the fitting in my bag were messed up.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Sep 10, 2011)

This is why I bought a factory refurb unit. Figured they would fix all the stupid small mistakes... Time will tell.


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## dbkick (Sep 10, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> This is why I bought a factory refurb unit. Figured they would fix all the stupid small mistakes... Time will tell.


 CAP? If all you guys are interested in is a bigger bucket CAP makes the monster ebb, I've got one and it appears to work as stated although I'm having some issues with my grow I don't think its related to the functioning of the monster ebb, I changed everything in my system but the tubing thats running from the main res to the actual grow room, this is 40 foot of tubing or so and a pain in the ass to change out(it goes thru several walls), I'm not real sure but it must be something in the tubing causing my issues and I intend to kill/remove wtf ever it is.


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 10, 2011)

dbkick said:


> You'd have to define "better" , the shitty little finger things work pretty damn well.


greentrees uses REAL floats on vertical poles i guess instead of those finger switches. you can adjust fill height as well. they have better cord management. the control bucket also has more holes so you can have less buckets on each line for faster drain and fill. they use 3/4" tubing. the buckets are already raised up to help fully drain buckets. you dont need a check valve because the hose hub has a bypass to prevent syphoning. everything is much much more thought out. CAP copied greentrees in the beginning anyway. lol


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 10, 2011)

i just got a great idea too for a drain to waste setup in COCO....

instead of the drain pump going to the res u just plumb it into a drain lol. i think it would work. just setup 2 55 gallon drums linked together via 3/4" tubing so you have 110 gal res basically should last a week. only fill once a day should work, be a bit expensive on nutes but that would be awesome setup i think with aptus. any thoughts.


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## Refusedpanda (Sep 10, 2011)

im interested in seeing the coco drain to waste set up. i have moms in coco and its a pain in the ass to hand water them daily. be nice to adapt this system to that style of hydro. plus maybe i can upgrade to the greentrees and use the CAP to manage my moms.

how is the aptus line up working out? its a bit weird that they don't make any base nutes, just additives. i guess you can mix up your own NPK that way?.?...

i got a bottle of their regulator and startbooster. the startbooster smells like shit, i have to keep it in box out in the garage. for my small grow i may never run out since its super concentrated lol


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 11, 2011)

Refusedpanda said:


> im interested in seeing the coco drain to waste set up. i have moms in coco and its a pain in the ass to hand water them daily. be nice to adapt this system to that style of hydro. plus maybe i can upgrade to the greentrees and use the CAP to manage my moms.
> 
> how is the aptus line up working out? its a bit weird that they don't make any base nutes, just additives. i guess you can mix up your own NPK that way?.?...
> 
> i got a bottle of their regulator and startbooster. the startbooster smells like shit, i have to keep it in box out in the garage. for my small grow i may never run out since its super concentrated lol


ya the start booster isnt nearly as bad as the p boost smells like straight liquid shit lol which it prolly is haha. anyway ya its working great if u look in my 400w CMH journal you can't tell the difference between aptus and HG. i asked the owner why they dont do a base, and he said why make something that everyone already does that does essentially the same thing. he said use a base nute that you are comfortable with and use aptus as the additive. works killer for me with HG base nutes, and works out to be cheaper. i might try the drain to waste on this next grow side by side one recirc one drain to waste see how it goes. here are some pics of my other grow from the "hell room" as i have come to call it due to the obnoxious heat and multiple problems these poor plants have been wrought with lol somehow some are just troopers and look really unharmed others well they didn't fair so well. 

end of week 6 start of week 7 and shooting powder


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 15, 2011)

Sup everybody im back from my trip anyhing i can help with?


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 15, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Sup everybody im back from my trip anyhing i can help with?


yeah.. you got pics of your setup? I veg in ebb and flow tables and then pop them into the ebb and grow to flower... I think I should veg in the ebb and gro to get bigger plants.... what do you think?


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 15, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> yeah.. you got pics of your setup? I veg in ebb and flow tables and then pop them into the ebb and grow to flower... I think I should veg in the ebb and gro to get bigger plants.... what do you think?


in the ebb&grow i left to long in veg they will get way to big! I veg in a flood tables in 4x4 cube and at 18in I put them into the ebb and they end
up huge check out my journal my setup in there


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## Phillip J Fry (Sep 16, 2011)

Got my DIY ebb flow up and going now. Only problem is I cant get the drain pump to stay off with out tilting the control bucket. I mean it works but wtf. I only bought the one part and it is rather stupid (CAP monster controller). Next time I am build my own controller. 
View attachment 1789251View attachment 1789252View attachment 1789253View attachment 1789254View attachment 1789255View attachment 1789256


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 16, 2011)

Phillip J Fry said:


> Got my DIY ebb flow up and going now. Only problem is I cant get the drain pump to stay off with out tilting the control bucket. I mean it works but wtf. I only bought the one part and it is rather stupid (CAP monster controller). Next time I am build my own controller.
> View attachment 1789251View attachment 1789252View attachment 1789253View attachment 1789254View attachment 1789255View attachment 1789256


this is a common issue and can be solved x2 ways! 1st is to get a check valve 2nd is to get the control box right next to the res like touching
the res, this is to lessen the distence of hose in doing so the amount of water that can drain back to the control box after the pump shuts off.
this drain back trips the pump and its a never ending cycle. hey fry if this dont help hit me up in PM


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## dbkick (Sep 16, 2011)

Fry what monster controller do you have? two floats or three? The newer versions that are supposed to correct the drain pump running on have two floats, the older version that CAP says is the only ones that require check valves. Funny I had the same problem bought and installed the check valve and I guess it fixed it, I pay no attention to the thing anymore since my grow went bad.


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## Phillip J Fry (Sep 16, 2011)

Ok sounds like I need the check valve since my controller only has two float switches. Plus my res is outside the room and control bucket is inside. Anyone point me in the direction of a good 3/4 inch check value to use? 

Much love 
Fry


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## hammer21 (Sep 16, 2011)

Picked one of these up on ebay works great you may want to check it out 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270817130504?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 16, 2011)

View attachment 1790688View attachment 1790689just pulled out of my greentrees bucket system with coco. these might have been a bit early, but more pics to come. over 90% of room was done so i said fuck it and pulled them all down lol check it out


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 17, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> View attachment 1790688View attachment 1790689just pulled out of my greentrees bucket system with coco. these might have been a bit early, but more pics to come. over 90% of room was done so i said fuck it and pulled them all down lol check it out


nice JDM looks done enough for me good job!!


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## rsxr0884 (Sep 17, 2011)

Been reading this thread for a while and glad I found this thread when I did Reading this thread got me to buy the EBB 12 system and help me to figure out the simple maintenance on the system. Did my first grow w some bag seed that I had for a while The crop came out alright I just think I should have left it a little longer I am now currently growing Chocolope now and am in day 11 in flower. Started a grow journal and would appreciate some feedback on what you guys think of how they are doin.


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## hammer21 (Sep 17, 2011)

looking good jdm what type of coco did you use?


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 17, 2011)

hammer21 said:


> looking good jdm what type of coco did you use?


the botanicare stuff i am gonna try running drain to waste this time. i think that would work out better. i had some strange issues late in flower. i think drain to waste is a much better way to run it we will see.


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## hammer21 (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks JDM will be trying the coco next time such a pain cleaning hydroton and to expensive to throw away


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## WaxxyNuggets (Sep 18, 2011)

Hows it going guys, new ebb and grow user, just got things setup, 24 site in a 8x4 room, just curious should I be stressing about the third float valve as a safety measure? Also how long should I veg with a semi crowded area with this system?


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 18, 2011)

i would veg until it gets crowded then flip. you dont want your plants fighting for light


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## Ferredoxin (Sep 18, 2011)

WaxxyNuggets said:


> Hows it going guys, new ebb and grow user, just got things setup, 24 site in a 8x4 room, just curious should I be stressing about the third float valve as a safety measure? Also how long should I veg with a semi crowded area with this system?


It depends on the strain. I veg sour diesels for 2 weeks, but I top them to 4-5 nodes a few days before I flip them and they end up 5ft+ and evenly spaced. I would veg a shorter indica 4-5 weeks and train it a bit to fill the space. I veg my 24 in a separate space under a 400w MH on a 3x3 ebb&flow table, them move them for 12/12. 

As for the top float....pray it doesnt fail! I wouldnt be using this system in an upstairs bedroom...lol.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 18, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> It depends on the strain. I veg sour diesels for 2 weeks, but I top them to 4-5 nodes a few days before I flip them and they end up 5ft+ and evenly spaced. I would veg a shorter indica 4-5 weeks and train it a bit to fill the space. I veg my 24 in a separate space under a 400w MH on a 3x3 ebb&flow table, them move them for 12/12.
> 
> As for the top float....pray it doesnt fail! I wouldnt be using this system in an upstairs bedroom...lol.


ive got a buddy that did and 55gal of water ended up in his lower bedroom lol I have mine on a shop floor next to a drain lol


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 19, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> ive got a buddy that did and 55gal of water ended up in his lower bedroom lol I have mine on a shop floor next to a drain lol


ya i overflowed shit before dumped 55 gal down to the place below lol no BUENO


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## WaxxyNuggets (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks for the responses there is no preventative measure i can take to ensure a float failure isn't gonna dump all over the floor? Praying is my best bet...? fuck


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 19, 2011)

yep no way to 100%prevent it sorry


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 19, 2011)

hmmm... do the original cap controllers have redundant float switches?
my aquahub kits have two on the bottom and three on the top, i believe..


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## hammer21 (Sep 19, 2011)

Just make sure they use quality floats and they have a high water float chances of 2 floats going bad at the exact same time very very rare. I would stay clear of aquahub they use 110 volts to there floats think about putting your hand in a bucket of water with 110 volts outcome not good. make sure they use a safe low DC voltage and are not putting a load on the floats they are not made for it....................... When you see a company using multi floats for the same thing tells me that they don`t trust there floats or controller why should you.


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 19, 2011)

hammer21 said:


> Just make sure they use quality floats and they have a high water float chances of 2 floats going bad at the exact same time very very rare. I would stay clear of aquahub they use 110 volts to there floats think about putting your hand in a bucket of water with 110 volts outcome not good. make sure they use a safe low DC voltage and are not putting a load on the floats they are not made for it....................... When you see a company using multi floats for the same thing tells me that they don`t trust there floats or controller why should you.


As with anyone who builds a system with redundancy would tell you, Aquahub puts extra floats in there in case of catastrophic failure. Planning for catastrophic failure does not mean that they don't trust their floats; it means that they are smart enough to know that the floats are mission-critical and so they provide redundancy.


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## med4u (Sep 19, 2011)

tommo,my original cap came with redundant but not installed,i guess in case the top switch fails,i have no plans to install,i like livin' on the edge, and i have the same aqua set up you have,by the way thanx for the hook up on that, sweet deal,i jus got gifted another 55gal res and 24 more buckets,and im fixin to blow all dez beaachez' out!


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## hammer21 (Sep 19, 2011)

catastrophic failure the floats will not save you. 30 years as a Industrial electrical engineer i think i know something.


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 19, 2011)

hammer21 said:


> catastrophic failure the floats will not save you. 30 years as a Industrial electrical engineer i think i know something.


I meant catastrophic failure of a float switch. . .

So what is wrong with these specs? 





Specifications
Temperature: -10 ~ +80°C
Contact rating: 50W
Max Switching Voltage: 100VDC
Min Breakdown Voltage: 150VDC
Max Switching Current: 0.5A
Max Contact Resistance: 100m&#8486;

would you like this better?





Specifications:*
Temperature: -10 ~ +125°C
Contact rating: 50W
Max Switching Voltage: <=220VAC
Min Breakdown Voltage: 300VDC
Max Switching Current: 1.5A
Max Contact Resistance: 100m&#8486;


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 19, 2011)

hammer21 said:


> catastrophic failure the floats will not save you. 30 years as a Industrial electrical engineer i think i know something.


How about the FDCv1 Mission Critical Fill & Drain Controller





ontroller is mounted on a wall away from the water in the controller bucket 
with a 9.5&#8217; Cable that can be extended to 75&#8217; As most controller buckets end
up not being easily accessed, so you may easily change your fill times.

Built in Surge Protection Circuit, Visually Indicating Active Surge Protection. 

Indicators Indicate Current Cycle (Fill or Drain) & Actual Pump Status Within 
Each Cycle So you can see what cycle your in aswell as see if the Pump Should 
|be active if you are experiencing a problem. Other controllers don&#8217;t do this.

Analog Circuit Design, When Lights, Pumps, AC Etc cycle on/off they create surges 
that can fault digital circuits. Although Digital Circuits can be more accurate 
they are more susceptible to voltage fluctuations.

Full Circuit Protection
3 Breakers, Ensure fault is stopped as close to the source to not damage controller,
That are Spec&#8217;ed to provide Protection to controller a yet also not be under-sized.
2 Replaceable fuses (Timer, Transformer), Allows to be Field Serviceable. *(These should never Blow)
8 Self-Resetting Fuses (Indicators and Switches) allows minor faults to not full fault unit.
All Components surpass all Codes and engineering guidelines. PCB is Coated with a
*Explosive-Proof, Thermally Conductive Epoxy (MG 832TC), Thus ensuring Longer 
Life from the Components.

Full Five Year Warranty on FDCV1&#8482; Controller & Cables.


Optional Warranty Upgrade Option With Next Day Delivery, If you ever have a warranty
Problem, We can overnight a new controller and then you can ship you defective unit back.

Technical Specifications:
Power Supply In:120 Vac
Pump: Not Included (2) Via Aqua 306 or DM FP-250 DMFP-190
Minimum Fill Time:1 minute
Minimum Drain Time:1 minute
Max Amperage: 3 Amp, 250 Watt ea Pump, *5,000GPH
Warranty: Full Five Year Warranty on FDCV1&#8482; Controller , 1 Year for Pumps.

Package Contents:
1, FDCV1-A Controller
1, 9, Cable With Float Switches.
5, Year Warranty.

Invented & Fully Designed By Thomas Ordon Of TLO FDC IP HOLDINGS, LLC 
(Personally Bringing 25 Years of Analog Circuit Design and 15+ years in Digital,
Thus Knowing when and how to use each technology without comprising Life or Reliability)
http://www.fdcv1.com/


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## hammer21 (Sep 19, 2011)

Thats alot nicer controller and the second float is best choice. The first float is not even rated for 110-120 VAC standard relay pulls 65 to 90ma not rated for even the relays they use asking for trouble. Just keep in mind the controller is the heart of the system. You can get by without large lights for a day or two without a controller the party is over in a matter of hours.


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 19, 2011)

hammer21 said:


> Thats alot nicer controller and the second float is best choice. The first float is not even rated for 110-120 VAC standard relay pulls 65 to 90ma not rated for even the relays they use asking for trouble. Just keep in mind the controller is the heart of the system. You can get by without large lights for a day or two without a controller the party is over in a matter of hours.


So do you use a controller? Which one?

I like this mission critical controller, but the guy is not making any more right now due to some shortage of parts or whatever. It has a lot of great features, however...

I am about to build another aquahub kit and will order some of these stainless switches to use instead of the plastic ones....
Then the aquahub kit should be pretty good.. Unless the mechanical time clock thing breaks, but it is pretty beefy..


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## hammer21 (Sep 19, 2011)

> [/So do you use a controller? Which one?
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## dbkick (Sep 19, 2011)

Phillip J Fry said:


> Ok sounds like I need the check valve since my controller only has two float switches. Plus my res is outside the room and control bucket is inside. Anyone point me in the direction of a good 3/4 inch check value to use?
> 
> Much love
> Fry


 A lot been happening in the thread!
Fry the CAP controllers with two float switches are the newer version , they aren't supposed to need a check valve because they have a 3 second delay on the fill outlet.
I bought a new version of the CAP monster and the pump seemed to run on so I installed a check valve, CAP sells two different models of check valve, one a 1/2 inch and the other 3/4 inch. Err perhaps I meant a 3 second delay on the drain outlet, either way I don't understand how its supposed to address this issue.


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 19, 2011)

hammer21 said:


> > [/So do you use a controller? Which one?
> > QUOTE]View attachment 1795683
> >
> >
> ...


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 19, 2011)

post the greentrees floats much better


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## hammer21 (Sep 20, 2011)

My have worked with your dad tommy ask him if ever did work for crystal river nuclear plant or on the steena recovery vessel projects.


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## formfactor (Sep 21, 2011)

Okay so I'm approaching final flush, and I'm curious how many e&g users have used molasses or sucanat in their systems. I ran a mixture of both for about 2 weeks and a slime developed, bu I would swear the plants loved it. I plan on flushing with it, but I'm thinking about adding it before the flush... Any experience here?


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 21, 2011)

formfactor said:


> Okay so I'm approaching final flush, and I'm curious how many e&g users have used molasses or sucanat in their systems. I ran a mixture of both for about 2 weeks and a slime developed, bu I would swear the plants loved it. I plan on flushing with it, but I'm thinking about adding it before the flush... Any experience here?


Well, the only reason to use sucanat and molasses is if you have beneficial bacteria in your rez...


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 21, 2011)

I would like to relocate my reservoir barrels in the adjacent room because it is cold and would keep the nutes nice and aerated. 
How would I do this with the ebb and grow system?
Would I just put the barrels and controller buckets outside the room and drill a few holes in the wall for the tubes that go to all of the buckets?
OR would I leave the controller buckets in the room and run the lines out to the barrels?


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## WaxxyNuggets (Sep 21, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys, I'm just going to install a second float higher than the first as a piggy back on the drain pump. If the first one from cap fails then the "redundant" one a 1/2 in higher will shut that puppy down.


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## formfactor (Sep 22, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> I would like to relocate my reservoir barrels in the adjacent room because it is cold and would keep the nutes nice and aerated.
> How would I do this with the ebb and grow system?
> Would I just put the barrels and controller buckets outside the room and drill a few holes in the wall for the tubes that go to all of the buckets?
> OR would I leave the controller buckets in the room and run the lines out to the barrels?


I think it depends how level your floor is, but personally I'd keep the controller bucket close to the pots and just run tubes to the barrels outside.


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## formfactor (Sep 22, 2011)

Anyone used both the original and the monster? I want some bigger plants, and I am wondering if the monster might work better.


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanks Form.. My floor is level enough to not matter as far as that is concerned...
This is just temporary while I wait for a new chiller or two chillers....


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 22, 2011)

formfactor said:


> Anyone used both the original and the monster? I want some bigger plants, and I am wondering if the monster might work better.


I made my own system out of 5 gallon buckets. Up until now I have been vegging in these 6 inch pots (small) and throwing them into the ebb and grow and flipping the lights into 12/12 right away.. I still get full buckets of roots when I empty them out after flower... I have to tear chunks of roots apart to get hydroton out from the jumble..

I can't compare to the small ebb and grow buckets, but I can say that the plants use the extra space in my bigger systems.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Sep 27, 2011)

kofseattle said:


> I am getting a brown algae looking growth in my Ebb and Gro resovoir. I assume because I am using Fox Farms (yes the hydro version)? Either way, I just purchased an RO filter to bring my out of the tap 330PPM water to 0PPM. Once I have enough water from the RO filter I am going to clean out my resovoir. Can anyone give me tips on the best way to do this with the Ebb and Gro? I was thinking pump the water out to the yard, wipe as clean as I can, flush with plain water once, H202? (not sure of the application) and then refill with RO Water and re-nute. Also thinking of making some of the tea from the recipe I found here to make the bene nutes. Any help/advice appreciated, this is my first hydro grow. been in dirt for three years. Thanks for all the awsome info in this thread folks, it has saved me alot of grief!


If it were me I would use some bleach/water to rinse through the system for a couple days, and then just try to wipe down everything the best you can. Also, look at products such as hygrozyme, or aquashield. Aquashield is beneficial bacteria, and hygrozyme is enzymes.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Sep 27, 2011)

just buy a 55 gallon drum of craigslist


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 27, 2011)

12$ where I live for 55 gallon drums.. Find a black one... Blue and white let light in=algae invitation.


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## med4u (Sep 27, 2011)

howdy kof,keep your temps down in your res below 70 and ditch the ff,get you some dyna-gro, start thinkin about a bleach/h2o2 regiment theres a recipe back in this thread back about 20 pages or so works good also try your local carwash for 55 gal drums 10 bucks by me, good luck


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 27, 2011)

I believe the dynagrow has some bleach in it? or am I trippin?


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## med4u (Sep 27, 2011)

nope no bleach


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 27, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> I believe the dynagrow has some bleach in it? or am I trippin?


no bleach bro


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 28, 2011)

im back been super busy lol building my new 59 lighter and my dispensary lol crazy shit lately man i also pulled down the nightmare room finally came out pretty good but the kid working for my partner jacked like 2lb at least kinda pissed me off.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 28, 2011)

2lbs wtf dude thats sucks!!


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Sep 28, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> 2lbs wtf dude thats sucks!!


ya but 2lb isnt worth catching a case over so whatever. hows ur stuff goin man


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 28, 2011)

Im tearing down eveything and fraiming up to rooms im sick of tents! Im also looking into adding a new strain 
Looking at white ryino any thought on that strain?

Edit I ment white russain


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## med4u (Sep 28, 2011)

yea partners,been there done that, never again


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 28, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Im tearing down eveything and fraiming up to rooms im sick of tents! Im also looking into adding a new strain
> Looking at white ryino any thought on that strain?
> 
> Edit I ment white russain


not a big fan of either of those strains personally. building rooms is the way to go man fuck tents. also if you wanna do a white strain white widow is awesome.


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 28, 2011)

Hellraizer- I highly recommend White Widow, as well.. It grows HUGE in the ebb and gro...

kofseattle- Here is a recipe for GH Flora Series that will provide insane results (it is a slightly modified version of their weekly regimen)

Veg - 
week 1 5-2.5-2.5-400/600
week 2 10-5-3- 600/800
week 3 12-6-3 800/1000 (continue week 3 formula if additional veg time is required.)

Bloom
week 1 6-6-10- 800/1200
week 2 3-7-12 - 1000/1400
week 3 3-8-14 - 1000/1400
week 4 3-8-16 - 1000/1400
week 5 3-8-16 - 1000/1400
week 6 (discussed in detail below*)
week 7 0-7-20 - 1000/1400
week 8 0-6-20 
week 9 and 10 - plain ph'd water

* During week 6 if not using a booster like Superbud, Bushmaster Kabloom etc. run 2.5-7-18. I use MOAB (Mother of All Blooms) or BushMaster at 50% of recommended strength, and use 1.25-3.5-9 for the fert base.


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 28, 2011)

mL per gallon -- my favorite combo of Euro and America! 
Yes, that is correct.
I personally use Kool Bloom powder, but only because I have some on hand. 
I will be switching to MOAB mother of all blooms when I run out of KB.
Keep the reservoir cool and aerated... Cool actually = aerated because cool water holds more oxygen... Bad bacteria like anaerobic conditions, ie. warm and low oxygen. When the tank gets warm, you invite that stuff..

I don't do Lucas formula.. This is a badass and easy way to use GH with no additives except a bloom booster.. It is easy and stable.



grow, micro, bloom, ppm range. Example - 5-2.5-2.5-400/800 would mean 5 ml grow, 2.5 ml micro, 2.5 ml bloom and a ppm of 400-880. Remember it's per gallon.
The ppms work out almost exactly. I tend to lean toward the lower side of the range, unless I have a really heavy feeder that I know can handle it. 

What is your source water?
I suggest using the hardwater micro in place of the regular micro if your tap water is over 200 ppm total or you have over 70 ppm Ca. RO water users should use the regular micro.

Also, don't fool with pH right away. You have to allow time for the ph buffers in the nutrient solution to do their job. Mix the nutes up, and bubble or circulate for 12 hours before adjusting PH.


----------



## tommyo3000 (Sep 28, 2011)

Oh, and if you use R/O you should add a calmag to the water after you clean it out...
GH just released a new calmag.
If I had to buy some, I would use cutting edge solutions cal and mag supplements. They are separate, but are sweet because they are naturally chelated and are badass..


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Sep 28, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> Hellraizer- I highly recommend White Widow, as well.. It grows HUGE in the ebb and gro...
> 
> kofseattle- Here is a recipe for GH Flora Series that will provide insane results (it is a slightly modified version of their weekly regimen)
> 
> ...


i disagree i think your PPM is too high. also there is no need to flush for 2 weeks


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 28, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> not a big fan of either of those strains personally. building rooms is the way to go man fuck tents. also if you wanna do a white strain white widow is awesome.


ive got the white widow already, any info on the dislike of those?


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 29, 2011)

never seen one that turned out right. white widow is a tall ass bitch though so keep that in mind i would trelis early let it grow into the nets


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 29, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> i disagree i think your PPM is too high. also there is no need to flush for 2 weeks


If you look closely the PPMs are in a RANGE... 
Regular plants need the lower range; the higher end is for heavy feeders..

As for the two week flush for a 10 week strain - it is a bit much.. I usually do a light nute mix for flushing instead of the plain water.. This is a recipe from a buddy who is a bit overboard with the flush...


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 29, 2011)

I flush 2weeks been doing it from day one, and ive tryed not flushing! Just like good flush


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## jdmcwestevo (Sep 29, 2011)

i'll post some pictures of my bud with NO flush pulled at the peak of my shooting powder barrage lol and it burns completely down to light gray white ash. super smooth


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 29, 2011)

Man im lost with deciding the new flavor to order! I want something indica and with great yeilds aswell


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Sep 29, 2011)

any bubba kush


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## hornedfrog2000 (Sep 29, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Man im lost with deciding the new flavor to order! I want something indica and with great yeilds aswell


Blue cheese is real popular for a reason. I went with Big budahs line.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 29, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> any bubba kush


Ive had a couple runs with that just wasnt what i wanted, but if i could get a pre 98 bubba that would be different


----------



## tommyo3000 (Sep 29, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Ive had a couple runs with that just wasnt what i wanted, but if i could get a pre 98 bubba that would be different


I've got '97 bubblegum.. huge huge in these systems...
mmm tasty!!!
maybe you can find a clone of this? Or maybe these new bubblegum seeds are as good? But I doubt that...


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 29, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> i'll post some pictures of my bud with NO flush pulled at the peak of my shooting powder barrage lol and it burns completely down to light gray white ash. super smooth


I go both ways, too.. lol.... flush/nonflush... I average a few days flush to a week.. nothing major..


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## drgreentm (Sep 29, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Ive had a couple runs with that just wasnt what i wanted, but if i could get a pre 98 bubba that would be different


 wish you where close by, i would drop you a clone for free. i love it


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## tommyo3000 (Sep 29, 2011)

kofseattle said:


> what is the application rate of CalMag? It has soil on the back but not what the suggested use for Hydro is? I have the Botanicare brand calmag.


Welllllll, let me recall..... I spoke with GH on the phone... They say to add some calmag, maybe up to 50ppm calcium... You don't want to go past that.. So basically you are adding some of what you just took out with your R/O system.

You can take your R/O water, add the calmag, and then mix up the Flora series.. Remember to put the micro first always, and then the other ones in whichever order.

also, the pH will change over a day as the buffers in the GH work... Don't adjust for a day...

Remember to have lots of airstones and keep the rez cool.


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## med4u (Sep 30, 2011)

yo helli,dont know if you gotany of these but im jus now startin,headband,darkstar,pinklady aka c99 x mazar aka plush berry,azure haze


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 30, 2011)

drgreentm said:


> wish you where close by, i would drop you a clone for free. i love it


me to id take you up on the offer


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 30, 2011)

med4u said:


> yo helli,dont know if you gotany of these but im jus now startin,headband,darkstar,pinklady aka c99 x mazar aka plush berry,azure haze


ive looked into the headband but just waiting for some grower reviews, on im sold on but it looks like it no longer around
is gorilla grape


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## hornedfrog2000 (Sep 30, 2011)

grape ape? I want that, but far as i know its clone only.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 30, 2011)

google gorilla grape one of the darkest purple ive seen!


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## med4u (Sep 30, 2011)

tommo,i smoked some of that bubblegum this last weekend,dont know what year,but we mixed it with some bluberry bubble hash(double bubble)that shit bout tore my head off,very potent


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## guati86 (Sep 30, 2011)

Whats up room! Came across this thought you all should know. Please sign it. It only takes five min. Here is the address just copy and paste it into your browser.https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/repeal-any-and-all-laws-pertaining-illegalization-cannabis-plant-and-all-its-uses/YYjJRHMl


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 3, 2011)

kofseattle said:


> Since it is cooling down around here I figured I could forgo the water chiller on my resovoir but the temps seems to be up in high 70's. I went ahead and got a chiller for my res and the plants have taken a notable turn! Seems to have really made a difference. finally getting this thing dialed in thanks to all of the tips on this forum.


right on glad to hear things are working out!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 3, 2011)

kofseattle said:


> 8 pots in hydroton flooding every 4 hours for 15 minutes in 18/6 during lights on, none lights out. too much? Not enough? using GH full line if it matters?



sounds good to me, ive always just gone x3 but for the first 4 to 5 days from transplant I go x4 for the roots to get going!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 3, 2011)

yah your good if you want to drop back to x3 for 30min. 
this flood time will also work well for bloom to


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## drgreentm (Oct 3, 2011)

kofseattle said:


> Since it is cooling down around here I figured I could forgo the water chiller on my resovoir but the temps seems to be up in high 70's. I went ahead and got a chiller for my res and the plants have taken a notable turn! Seems to have really made a difference. finally getting this thing dialed in thanks to all of the tips on this forum.


 man putting my res and controller in a separate room from the lights has really made a big difference, temps are in the mid to high 60's and have seen a great increase in pearly white roots! i would also suggest ether raising the buckets or lowering the controller for full bucket drainage this has seemed to have a great impact on the system IMHO, i havent seen this much roots in the lower buckets and im only on week one of flower and about week 2 since transplanting into the system.


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## drgreentm (Oct 3, 2011)

sure thing man, anytime, i bought some 2x4's and plywood and made a raised platform for all the buckets to sit on and the controller sits lower than the buckets, letting them drain completely


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## dbkick (Oct 3, 2011)

well I went and did it, I turned my ebb monster controller into a rdwc controller., dunno how its gonna turn out but I wasn't able to do it like I wanted, I was just gonna pull water from the end igloo and pump back to the main res but gravity couldn't keep up with the pump and it ended up emptying the cooler that the pump is in but not the other cooler connected to the controller. So I just fully drain every 2 hours to mix and cool the water using the controller as it was meant with the drain pump in the controller bucket.


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## med4u (Oct 4, 2011)

just thought you guys might wanna see these root shots


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## dbkick (Oct 4, 2011)

kofseattle said:


> Maybe one of those little inline one way flow restrictors would do the trick? Makes it so there is no backflow. I saw them at Home Depot in the irrigation section.


 a check valve? I had thought about using that some way (I have a 3/4 inch CAP recommended by hellraizer) but I wasn't seeing how it would help, I need to pump out of both cooler and back into one 3/4 inch line, unless I tie the coolers together at the drain and put a bucket between them to run back to the main res, this is all confusing and all I really wanna do is grow some really kickass weed but I've been failing lately . I think maybe this time will work out ok, only time will tell.


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## dbkick (Oct 4, 2011)

fuck at this point I don't even really have a section to fit into


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## tommyo3000 (Oct 5, 2011)

kofseattle said:


> wow, just went and picked up a gallon of H202 and it was $50, geez! Also discovered that my local supplier is WAY cheaper if you buy online and has FREE shipping? WTF? The 6" Vortex was $27 cheaper on their website and you get a free gift (good ones too) if you spend over $200, like you ever get out of the hydro store for under 2 bills, right!  Good to know this stuff for the future but for now I feel violated! HA! Gotta be someplace cheaper for H202, cant buy that online


h202 is expensive whereas I can get a lifetime of chlorine in one bottle of hot tub shock...


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## med4u (Oct 5, 2011)

hey kof,you can check with some of these guys,i use chlorox unsented bleach,it really does work in place of h2o2,for me anyways double chk but i believe it was 100ml/gallon of h2o,5ml first day,2.5ml each following day? or every other as maintenance,im sure helli can confirm or correct,i mixed a gal but only use it only when i change out res,or have slime issuse's


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## dbkick (Oct 6, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> h202 is expensive whereas I can get a lifetime of chlorine in one bottle of hot tub shock...


 fidy bux a gallon? must be 32 percent, I get 29 percent for like half that price and yeah its funny if you go into our local corporate hydro store you end up paying more for a product or less depending on what it is, I went in once and bought an atomist, cost me 240 plus tax when it stated online they were a little over 200, I questioned this and the employee told me that its actually a different company that has the online part of it but you couldn't tell by looking at the page, I needed the item so I let them gouge me but wasn't happy about it, haven't been back to that place since, my middle name is boycott.


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## InsaneMJ (Oct 6, 2011)

Do You guys run H202 in your resi? and what are your guy's opinion on what the resi temp should be? I normally have min right around 70 degrees and haven't had a problem yet.


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## dbkick (Oct 6, 2011)

I run a sterile res in flower, in veg I'll add some great white but I may even go sterile there too next time. I run my flower water temp at like 62 F myself, I'm using a monster ebb controller and two igloo coolers in a rdwc kinda set up, I drain the coolers every two hours back to the main res for 15 minutes, in the two hours my water sits in the coolers it gains like 2 degrees, my temp is never over 65. Its all about DO the water can retain, cooler water can retain more DO. Its also about bad things that grow at a little over 70 degrees, this is why you use h2o2 if you can't control water temps.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 6, 2011)

InsaneMJ said:


> Do You guys run H202 in your resi? and what are your guy's opinion on what the resi temp should be? I normally have min right around 70 degrees and haven't had a problem yet.


I used to use H202 and bleach the 202 never really worked well and the bleach was better but if you miss a dose your res was wide open to
bactiria, so now I use teas to combat bactiria.


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## dbkick (Oct 6, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I used to use H202 and bleach the 202 never really worked well and the bleach was better but if you miss a dose your res was wide open to
> bactiria, so now I use teas to combat bactiria.


 bleach def kills but I dunno man, it just seems so .......something...... I can't even think of a word....
You have a chiller, why worry about teas or h2o2 or bacteria at all?


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## dbkick (Oct 6, 2011)

I first got my monster , took awhile to get it set up. but it was so nice and shiny, first time I added great white it was nasty dirty as can be.


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## buttrick (Oct 10, 2011)

if your using h202 theres not to much to worry about with res temp. lower is good 60-70. but with the ebb it should get plenty of air in between waterings. so as long as the res is lower than 80 your fine. the general accepted h202 amount is about a tablespoon of 35% H2o2 (Horticultural Grade) per 55 gallons, once a day. **this is full strength application, only when plants are big enough to handle it. usually the beginning of flower, or shortly before.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 10, 2011)

buttrick said:


> if your using h202 theres not to much to worry about with res temp. lower is good 60-70. but with the ebb it should get plenty of air in between waterings. so as long as the res is lower than 80 your fine. the general accepted h202 amount is about a tablespoon of 35% H2o2 (Horticultural Grade) per 55 gallons, once a day. **this is full strength application, only when plants are big enough to handle it. usually the beginning of flower, or shortly before.


I disagree with this, im a old school vet of H202 and 28% h202 is what grow stores carry and with 28% h202 you need to be adding 200ML every three days
for it to be affective, anything over 28% to sell you need a atf exsposive liciense. I have seen it but it rare and 1 tbs every day aint going to be enough. air
yes I run x4 stone in my res! res temp over 75f is no good you could be using bleach/H202/ compost tea It dont matter you will have issues. and to say 80f
is ok make me wonder your expert knowledge of hydro! not trying to single you out, I just got to call it how it is.


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## drgreentm (Oct 10, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I disagree with this, im a old school vet of H202 and 28% h202 is what grow stores carry and with 28% h202 you need to be adding 200ML every three days
> for it to be affective, anything over 28% to sell you need a atf exsposive liciense. I have seen it but it rare and 1 tbs every day aint going to be enough. air
> yes I run x4 stone in my res! res temp over 75f is no good you could be using bleach/H202/ compost tea It dont matter you will have issues. and to say 80f
> is ok make me wonder your expert knowledge of hydro! not trying to single you out, I just got to call it how it is.


agreed, my resi wasnt even at 80 last grow and i had allot of problems with the roots while adding h202. now that the res is mid 60's im confident that i could stop using h202 all together and be fine but i still run it as a preventative measure.


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## tommyo3000 (Oct 11, 2011)

kofseattle said:


> I too am findning the lower temps create alot less, if any, problems. I was at 72F and it was stinky and the plants unhappy. Now with the chiller at 67 everything is working out nicely. Cant imagine what would happen at 80F.


At 80F the water cannot hold enough oxygen to support your beneficial microorganisms (if you have them) .. it becomes anaerobic and that is when the anaerobic bacteria take over and make poopjuice from your nutes.


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## jdmcwestevo (Oct 16, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I disagree with this, im a old school vet of H202 and 28% h202 is what grow stores carry and with 28% h202 you need to be adding 200ML every three days
> for it to be affective, anything over 28% to sell you need a atf exsposive liciense. I have seen it but it rare and 1 tbs every day aint going to be enough. air
> yes I run x4 stone in my res! res temp over 75f is no good you could be using bleach/H202/ compost tea It dont matter you will have issues. and to say 80f
> is ok make me wonder your expert knowledge of hydro! not trying to single you out, I just got to call it how it is.


ya i had my res temps sky high in that hell room and didnt have many issues just some algea that was it. but the lower temps i like for more DO like previously stated.

sorry i've been away for a bit just opened new dispensary so been super busy no time to come on and chat. also building my big big room


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## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 16, 2011)

I've noticed it takes a ton of h2o2 to be effective. It's going to cost too much for me to run it, so I'm using bennies now.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 16, 2011)

yah when I was using h202 I was hiting it with 200 to 250 ML for 55gal every 2 to 3 day and I had x3 res tanks thats alot of h202 lol


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## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 16, 2011)

Yeah, each liter around here is like $20. Then I would use probably 2-3 bottles per res, per grow. I think bennies will end up being cheaper, but we'll see.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 16, 2011)

it will if you brewing tea


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## dbkick (Oct 16, 2011)

I don't use h2o2 nearly as often nor as much but I do keep my res down to 61 degrees or so, I'm not seeing an issue. my shit is huge again btw maybe this time I won't kill it.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2011)

dbkick said:


> I don't use h2o2 nearly as often nor as much but I do keep my res down to 61 degrees or so, I'm not seeing an issue. my shit is huge again btw maybe this time I won't kill it.


Hope not man


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## med4u (Oct 18, 2011)

fyi if anyone is still looking for a check valve,they got em at home depot in the irrigation section,5$ and some change,work perfect


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 18, 2011)

Sweet thats way cheaper than caps lol


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## med4u (Oct 18, 2011)

fo real,caps pretty proud of there stuff


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## tommyo3000 (Oct 18, 2011)

this is unfortunate for us --- pride shouldn't determine the price of a product.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 18, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> this is unfortunate for us --- pride shouldn't determine the price of a product.


Thats the truth..........


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## dbkick (Oct 18, 2011)

med4u said:


> fyi if anyone is still looking for a check valve,they got em at home depot in the irrigation section,5$ and some change,work perfect


 odd, I asked the home depot guy if they had check valves and he showed me some sump pump check valve, this dude was like Mr home depot too :/
he helped me find the shit for at least 2 hydro systems and that was his dept, I'll have a look next time I'm in there.


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## med4u (Oct 19, 2011)

dbkick said:


> odd, I asked the home depot guy if they had check valves and he showed me some sump pump check valve, this dude was like Mr home depot too :/
> he helped me find the shit for at least 2 hydro systems and that was his dept, I'll have a look next time I'm in there.


update,i went to lowes as well,they have the 3/4,and the 1/2in barbed reducer is right next to them,you have to look in the irrigation section by the rainbird sprinkler stuff,i know what you mean about home depot i.e.usually everthing im lookin for is out of stock,
the plumbing dept guy at home depot,told me they no longer carry the 1/2 in check valve,go figure

good luck


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2011)

med4u said:


> update,i went to lowes as well,they have the 3/4,and the 1/2in barbed reducer is right next to them,you have to look in the irrigation section by the rainbird sprinkler stuff,i know what you mean about home depot i.e.usually everthing im lookin for is out of stock,
> the plumbing dept guy at home depot,told me they no longer carry the 1/2 in check valve,go figure
> 
> good luck


 thanks for the info, weekends nearing and I'm sure there will be a trip to home depot . man I used to live in the irrigation section and never noticed them but then theres lots of odds and ends in that dept.


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## dtp5150 (Oct 21, 2011)

for a home made check valve just do what cap did....drill a small hole in the line or fitting, underneath the lid

I did this so i could have the drain tube go all the way to the bottom, eliminating the loud splashes. I just cut drilled a small hole in the rubber tubbing at the top. So quiet. Gotta make sure it leaks water when being used. Can do the same with the fill drain into the controller bucket to make that silenced too. And then just hang the pump by the cord so its suspended a little bit in the 55 gal rez and theres no vibration.


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## dtp5150 (Oct 21, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> yah when I was using h202 I was hiting it with 200 to 250 ML for 55gal every 2 to 3 day and I had x3 res tanks thats alot of h202 lol


You must realize that using all those air stones and bubbling the h2o2 is just making the h2o2 disinfect all the air you are shoving in your nute solution, therefore simply wasting your h2o2. That is why is you had to use so much.

HERE IS SOME KNOWLEDGE

Air stones dont put DO int he water by "bubbling" they put DO int he water because the bubbles move the water on the surface around. You would achieve much better efficiency in your goal of using a pump to add DO to water by simply using a water pump and making a little waterfall inside your res. Air pumps raise the temperature of water.

Or you could just let it drain like cap intended and there will already be two waterfalls in the line every cycle. One in the fill line into the rez, and one into the controller bucket.

It seems the root of everyones problems is water temperature. Big, Frozen, Water Bottles

Buy a plastic keg of water at the grocery store..they hold like 2 gallons. To reuse it, do NOT poke a hole for an air vent. Or just never use the water inside and use it like it is and throw it in the freezer. Should probably squeeze all the air first tho.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 21, 2011)

The issue with this system doesnt lie in the res, its in the water trapped in the lines after a flood, each line full
Of water sitting in direct like heating up and your roots just soaking in it is the problem! To solve it simple
Raise bucket x2 in above the control box, this put your roots out of the water and allows more water to return
To the res. Adding frozen water is a major pain in the ass! Im more of a make it simple kind of person so i bought
A chiller works awsome! As for h202 with air being the reason i used to add that much lol i disagree! More air the better!
Best thing you can try in your ebb is compost teas plain and simple, peace people of riu and keep it green


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## dtp5150 (Oct 21, 2011)

So by your reasoning its better to have the roots down there sitting in warm air than a constantly refreshing nute solution that is no more than 5 hours old during the day. That is horribly incorrect. Roots in warm air get root rot in hours.

I've never had a problem with root rot down there. Perhaps more cycles will fix the problem. That is of course, if your temperatures are in check.

With ebb&flow bucket systems, regardless of manufacturer, there is a natural tendency for each bucket to collect a small layer of particulate matter that is from the growing medium, unfiltered nutes, dust, etc. This should not be confused with algae or root rot. Without proper prevention and routine removal of the particulate matter, gooey roots in that area could accumulate.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 21, 2011)

Running more than x3 floods a day during lights on is a waist ive run all types of medium
And roots just do better out of the water!


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## tommyo3000 (Oct 21, 2011)

dtp5150 said:


> You must realize that using all those air stones and bubbling the h2o2 is just making the h2o2 disinfect all the air you are shoving in your nute solution, therefore simply wasting your h2o2. That is why is you had to use so much.
> 
> HERE IS SOME KNOWLEDGE
> 
> ...


Your snotty post is totally wrong, I am happy to say.
First of all, hellraizer was using a good dose for his reservoirs.. He wasn't adding H2O2 to clean water, which by the way would still have a bunch of stuff for H2O2 to oxidize even if it were R/O treated... Anyhow, he was using it in hydroponics reservoirs and that flowed in his buckets.. There is a lot of organic matter for the H2O2 to oxidize in there.. 

You contradict yourself.. you say he is shoving air into his nute solution... then you say the H2O2 is being wasted by disinfecting all the air he is injecting...
Well, let's dissect this: If as you contend, the O2 primarily dissipates in the film layer on top of the water (if it is agitated), then how is the H2O2 reacting to the air inside the solution and being wasted? If the O2 is not dissolved in the water at the bottom of the barrell at the air stone, how is the H2O2 reacting to it?
Furthermore, why would H2O2 react to the air anyhow? Is it polluted? What is it polluted with? How do you know this about hellraizer's growroom air? 
EVEN IF the H2O2 WERE reacting to the polluted air WHICH DOES NOT EXIST, it would break down into OXYGEN, THUS Oxygenating the nutrient solution.. and certainly not being wasted.

These are a lot of "if's" which are all against what you contend...

Furthermore, air stones ***DO*** put DO in the water. Oxygen diffusion in the form of air bubbles in the bottom of the solution are the most effective way to aerate a body of water.
"In diffused aeration, oxygen transfer occurs during bubble formation, during the bubble's ascent to the surface, and at the water surface itself. Some researchers (Bewtra and Nicholas if you care to read their work) maintain that most oxygen transfer occurs during bubble formation when the interfacial area exposed to the liquid is constantly being renewed, although others contend that very significant transfer occurs during the bubble's ascent. Regardless of where the transfer occurs and all other things being equal , the rate of transfer is proportional to the area of contact between the liquid and the oxygen. This is the basic advantage of small bubbles."
Aeration: a wastewater treatment process By American Society of Civil Engineers, Water Pollution Control Federation
http://books.google.com/books?id=hrQsBAivZb4C&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=%22occurs+during+bubble+formation%22&source=bl&ots=rQFJHWh7I-&sig=Ty3YRGOFn9mNqeSPMvVUC4wLUh0&hl=en&ei=YVGiTv_vK8nliAKRiblk&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22occurs%20during%20bubble%20formation%22&f=false

see also http://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/30000FB4.txt?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=EPA&Index=1981%20Thru%201985&Docs=&Query=&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&UseQField=&IntQFieldOp=0&ExtQFieldOp=0&XmlQuery=&File=D%3A%5CZYFILES%5CINDEX%20DATA%5C81THRU85%5CTXT%5C00000001%5C30000FB4.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h|-&MaximumDocuments=1&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r75g8/r75g8/x150y150g16/i425&Display=p|f&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=3&ZyEntry=1
"Technology Assessment of Fine Bubble Aerators" by Jeremiah J. McCarthy, Wastewater Research Division, USEPA Municipal Environmental Research Laboratory, Cincinnati, Ohio
And no, you would not achieve much better or ANY better efficiency by simply making a waterfall. A waterfall is OK in nature when it is 100 feet tall, son, but a few feet to a few inches from the top of your barrell to the the bottom is no fucking waterfall. If you wanted to use a pump to aerate your 55 gallon drum, sprayers SRAYERS are what research says will maximize interface of water to oxygen... So you have to spray it into tiny droplets.. Again, either lots of tiny water droplets OR lots of tiny air bubbles are the ways to aerate solution. You have no grasp of either.
Oh, and how does an air pump raise the temp of water? Please tell us? If the room temp is higher than the water? From the air pump motor? Don't forget that Hellraizer runs a chiller, so it doesn't matter anyhow..
Oh, and please do explain why the water-cooled pump that you want to make a mini niagra falls with does not heat your nutrient? because it was sure designed to be water cooled...

Again, letting it drain like cap intended with those waterfalls in every cycle? Please.. How much DO does that achieve? It's not in tiny drops... It is a weak ass stream plopping through the air at low pressure and not achieving much gas exchange.

The answer to the root of peoples' water temp problems is------------- a water chiller. a 1/4HP water chiller.
buy a water chiller and hook it up to a pump and your rez.. No squeezing required.. AND you get awesome waterfall action when the chiller runs!! 


and then in the next post you misunderstand hellraizer.. he says the roots sit in WARM WATER so he RAISES his buckets... Sitting in warm water would cause the roots to put out ethylene and invite pathogens, etc... Which is why he raises them and they rain completely, leaving a bucket full of moistened hydroton and A SHITLOAD OF OXYGEN... at 65degrees (temp that his CHILLED water just brought the medium down to).. Again, no warm air.. 


Then you impart more ***BARFFFFING*** """knowledge"""" barf
":With ebb&flow bucket systems, regardless of manufacturer, there is a natural tendency for each bucket to collect a small layer of particulate matter that is from the growing medium, unfiltered nutes, dust, etc. This should not be confused with algae or root rot. Without proper prevention and routine removal of the particulate matter, gooey roots in that area could accumulate.:"

Particulate matter, unfiltered nutes (why use those?), dust, etc... Hmmm, things that the H2O2 oxidized and are no longer there?
Why would some one confuse dust and unfiltered brown stuff with algae? the green stuff that grows in presence of light? And why would a film, such as the red hydroton dust which colors my roots a but be confused with root rot? and gooeyness that is not bacterial? wtf?

Again, I will drop the bomb of my magnficent knowledge on you, child... Root rot happens when a roots are unable to exchange gasses with their surroundings, such as in the bottom two inches of your "how cap designed it" ebb and grow... They sit in that water, use the DO in a matter of minutes, then they choke and produce ethylene and start to die... Then diseases can attack the weakened root system and it turns into a spiral of shittiness.. Boom - you have been knoweledge-ated.. 
for real.


Tommy


PS- What you made is not a check valve.. it is a hole.. which you drilled. If it were to be called something, you would call it an anti-siphon vent hole. NOT A CHECK VALVE, sucka
"Check valves are two-port valves, meaning they have two openings in the body, one for fluid to enter and the other for fluid to leave."
A check valve will only let water go one way... no matter if the water wants to come back through...
did you get ANYTHING right in any of those posts? WTF are you smoking? can I get a cutting?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 21, 2011)

Very nice bit of info tommy rep to you sir


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## tommyo3000 (Oct 22, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Very nice bit of info tommy rep to you sir


Thanks.. I enjoyed getting a handle on this once and for all tonight 
I made a few corrections already..

wow tho, I am all amped from that.. Apparently my life has boiled down to Friday night midnight to 2 AM = spending 2 hours researching and then crafting a post about the intricacies of water bubbles while listening to Access fucking Hollywood on the TV on my wall...

hrmmph...


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## jdmcwestevo (Oct 22, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> Your snotty post is totally wrong, I am happy to say.
> First of all, hellraizer was using a good dose for his reservoirs.. He wasn't adding H2O2 to clean water, which by the way would still have a bunch of stuff for H2O2 to oxidize even if it were R/O treated... Anyhow, he was using it in hydroponics reservoirs and that flowed in his buckets.. There is a lot of organic matter for the H2O2 to oxidize in there..
> 
> You contradict yourself.. you say he is shoving air into his nute solution... then you say the H2O2 is being wasted by disinfecting all the air he is injecting...
> ...


wow man u just pwn3d that guy +rep sir


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 22, 2011)

Whats up jdm hows your shit going?


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## dtp5150 (Oct 23, 2011)

I own 4 gallons of 35% h2o2 and the largest air pump hydrofarm makes ( also the smallest ). Ive custom made ebb&flow systems (and controller buckets using relays and shit from radio shack ) using my own 5 gallon buckets with larger than 55 gal rez and have used caps with 36 buckets. Ive made recirculating dwc setups, drip, flood drain, etc. Not like its my first day at the Rodeo. Currently I have an ebb&grow being used...OUTDOORS..with totally healthy clean roots. I've been involved with the design of huge ponds and techniques for keeping them algae free. The most efficient design, without any kind of doubt, uses cascading diffused waterfalls.

Throwing a water chiller and huge amount of air stones and huge amounts of h2o2 to battle the effects of mismanagement of reservoir temperatures when it could be avoided is more of a disease/disaster care situation instead of a preventative care scenario. The dude even said he got unsatisfactory results LOL.

I still found no valid rebuttal to my statement of how irrational it is to think having roots suspending growing in warm air is better than nute solution less than 5 hours old.

"Valve: A device for controlling the passage of fluid through a pipe or duct, esp. an automatic device allowing movement in one direction only." I'm pretty sure the hole in the pipe/fitting only allows the water to move in one direction only, since that is the point of design, and the anti-siphon properties have been verified tested! Its a rudimentary design, but its a valve! What I'm smoking is much better than anything you'll be getting.

And if you can't see why pumping air bubbles thru a solution of h2o2 that ur trying to use to increase the DO of the water with is a waste, I suggest you talk to a chemistry professor of some sort.

Im not here to argue. Just to drop knowledge. Peace out.


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## drgreentm (Oct 23, 2011)

ok so here i go explaining this again. from experience with this system i can say the sitting water in the system is a problem and i will tell you why. first off this entire system is made of black plastic, and as we all know black absorbs allot of light and heat well with my last run i had massive problems with this the simple solution for me was to move the res in a bathroom right off of the grow room away from the lights and heat also i raised the pots up 2" from the controller to allow for full drainage. this helped but did not solve the problem and i was thinking wtf the res was at 65 steady and still getting funk in the res sure enough the control bucket that was still sitting next to the buckets had water in it after the drain cycle and it was HOT then when the system would flood it would contaminate my good water and take it back to the res (just because bacteria doesnt LIKE colder water does not mean it cant survive in it) so ultimately i ended up putting the controller next to the res in the other room with a hole in the wall feeding the buckets. this completely solved the problem and i havent used h202 in 2 weeks. my roots masses are now so dense i cant even drive a steak all the way through the hydroton and the lower buckets are so full of healthy white roots they are growing into the flood lines, i can say from experience it is better for the roots to be sitting in a dry lower bucket than nasty hot water simply stunting root growth and causing my plants to look sick as hell at about week 3 of flower (hints as soon as my roots reached the lower buckets). if i had to leave the controller in the room with the pots i would make a box lined in panda film to go over it to keep light absorption to a minimum. this is my experience with the system in the last 6 months of growing with it. i love the system now that all the problems have been addressed.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2011)

I dont think hes getting the point! Theres enough of us emplying these methods to justify our actions!
Although he might have some exp on larger systems of different types! The fact is some of the above
Statments just dont jive! Hey dr well said keep it green bro! As for dpt hang around you might learn 
Something


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## dbkick (Oct 23, 2011)

check out the new improved sig! I did it just for mr riu himself ! nice huh?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2011)

I dont see it db?


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## Refusedpanda (Oct 23, 2011)

Just got back from the Long Beach expo and Sentinel actually had their kit on display. Well something that looked like a kit and the Aquahub folks had a booth and I talked to that guy for a while. Lots of cool stuff at the show, not to mention the tons of free crap. Under Current seemed to be a pretty big thing at the show, one company had a few displays set up at their own booth and various other booths.


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## dbkick (Oct 23, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I dont see it db?


 yo I spelled lying wrong and mr potroast was kind (shit I hope he didn't see that typo  )enough to correct me after he spanked my hand for being bad, but thats all forgotten and we're cool now, VO prob still has a problem with me though


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## dbkick (Oct 23, 2011)

hellraizer, I might add you're a excellent mod, disciplined and knowledgeable , wrong thread for this I know but you're one of the new mods I have no problem with at all.


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## dbkick (Oct 23, 2011)

although you could work on your spelling :/
Sorry I'm ALMOST as anal as mr potroast about spelling!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2011)

Spelling isnt my strong point  although i try lol thanks db


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## dbkick (Oct 23, 2011)

its all gud budy.


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## kushlungs (Oct 23, 2011)

If a guy was to have a 5'x8' room with 2x 1000 watt lights in it, how many buckets ya think he could run on a ebb and grow system? 

I'm thinking 18 would be a good fit, use a net. 

also how much height do ya need for the monster? The rooms a 8' room but got about 1' of that for the lights.

If the 5 gall monster set up was used in that size (5'x8') room, how many would ya think, 9? also would that be better trees or use a net?

I have a light background in dirt (2 year medical card holder) and want to give hydro a try. Plan on starting a DWC bucket asap to get my feet wet before i invest any big money on a system.

when I buy the system I also plan on getting a co2 burner.

thanks for any advice  

I got a lot of reading to do on this thread to catch up,lol, 247 pages! I got a little time, snows almost here and I wont be starting this system for a few months.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2011)

kushlungs said:


> If a guy was to have a 5'x8' room with 2x 1000 watt lights in it, how many buckets ya think he could run on a ebb and grow system?
> 
> I'm thinking 18 would be a good fit, use a net.
> 
> ...


Im thinking 12 if you keep them small then 18


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## kushlungs (Oct 23, 2011)

I was thinking like a 3 week veg on them, so I'll run it with 12 this round. 

Thanks


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## drgreentm (Oct 23, 2011)

kushlungs said:


> I was thinking like a 3 week veg on them, so I'll run it with 12 this round.
> 
> Thanks


 12 large plants in a 5x8 and you will have no room to walk. I'm ringing 18 on a 7x12 platform and am going to be tight on space. I'm thinking a 10x10 for 20 Max. I top and supercrop though and can say only about 9 of my ladies would fit in a 5x8 comfy.


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## dbkick (Oct 23, 2011)

man I got 3 in a 5 by 7 room 3 weeks into flower and I'm wondering how I'll be getting in soon.


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## kushlungs (Oct 23, 2011)

yous guys are killing my dreams,lol

I'll see how the 12 sit in there and if need be drop 2. Would 2 week's be enough time in veg? 

Is the net's worth it or should I just use the ring cages?

thanks for the advice.

I'm sure I'll be back thru out the winter for more. come spring plan to move some where bigger then a 5'x8' area


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 24, 2011)

The ring cages rock over trellis! Your dreams might be set at having alot of plants but more isnt allways more,
I often put 28 in a 10x10 and pull 3 1/2 to 4 out of it i also have put 13 in a 10x10 and got 3 1/3 so you do
The math less plant more light = more


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## kushlungs (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks again hellraizer, that also helped with a few questions I havent asked but wanted to know 


the numbers sounds good, this is going to be the last run in this room then were moving to the country with a bigger house. Then I'll be ordering 24 more buckets 

Thanks again


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## Osburn (Oct 24, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Your dreams might be set at having alot of plants but more isnt allways more,
> I often put 28 in a 10x10 and pull 3 1/2 to 4 out of it i also have put 13 in a 10x10 and got 3 1/3 so you do
> The math less plant more light = more


+1

The number of plants I legally grow depends on the strain I'm currently growing. It's all about filling up your space and getting the perfect canopy. And like you said, sometimes less is more.

On a side note, I'm still really happy with the ebb and gro system. I had my second best yield ever after the first run with the ebb and gro and better roots than I ever had with DWC.


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## dbkick (Oct 24, 2011)

Osburn said:


> +1
> 
> The number of plants I legally grow depends on the strain I'm currently growing. It's all about filling up your space and getting the perfect canopy. And like you said, sometimes less is more.
> 
> On a side note, I'm still really happy with the ebb and gro system. I had my second best yield ever after the first run with the ebb and gro and better roots than I ever had with DWC.


 how do you see the roots to know? I always see someone saying something about their nice roots here but how do you see them if they're buried in rocks?


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## dbkick (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm running my controller as a kind of rdwc system with igloo coolers but think I'm gonna try the 5 gallon buckets with roks again. shall I? or shall I just keep with the dwc/aero/nft hybrid I've got going with the igloos?


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## Osburn (Oct 24, 2011)

dbkick said:


> how do you see the roots to know? I always see someone saying something about their nice roots here but how do you see them if they're buried in rocks?


Pick up the interior bucket. I've been seeing roots coming through the bottom holes two weeks after I put plants into the monster buckets. Also, after my first ebb & gro run, my hydroton was like a brick because the root growth was so dense. Very impressive.

I was thinking about rigging up a RDWC brain bucket and switch it out with the stock brain bucket a couple of weeks into flower, but I decided not to mess with a good thing and create more work for myself. Coming from a DWC background, I give my plants all the water they can handle and had great results with the ebb & gro the first time around using the Lucas Formula with GH flora series.


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## dbkick (Oct 24, 2011)

Osburn said:


> Pick up the interior bucket. I've been seeing roots coming through the bottom holes two weeks after I put plants into the monster buckets. Also, after my first ebb & gro run, my hydroton was like a brick because the root growth was so dense. Very impressive.
> 
> I was thinking about rigging up a RDWC brain bucket and switch it out with the stock brain bucket a couple of weeks into flower, but I decided not to mess with a good thing and create more work for myself. Coming from a DWC background, I give my plants all the water they can handle and had great results with the ebb & gro the first time around using the Lucas Formula with GH flora series.


 Right on, so do you think I should switch my monster back to the way it was meant to be as a flood and drain using a medium( I did spend 180 bux on dyna gro roks, not to mention 2 bills for the buckets I'm not using) or keep with the rdwc type of system I'm running now?


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## Wolfhound (Oct 24, 2011)

Took me about a week off/on but finally read this entire thread. A lot of great info & help for all who pass this way. I'll be putting my Titan 12 bucket up very soon, room will be done in a couple of days.
Almost ready for the ORCA . . .


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 25, 2011)

Wolfhound said:


> Took me about a week off/on but finally read this entire thread. A lot of great info & help for all who pass this way. I'll be putting my Titan 12 bucket up very soon, room will be done in a couple of days.
> Almost ready for the ORCA . . .
> View attachment 1853989


Hey wolf when you get going start a journal would be awsome to follow along, looks like a good start on your room!


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## kushlungs (Oct 25, 2011)

question on the moster ebb and grow

about how tall and around are ya looking at on average with them 5 gallon buckets?

for the 5'x8' room I have would I be better running 8-10 2 gallon buckets,or would there be room for six 5 gallon buckets?

I have 2 x 1000 watt lights in there with about 7' of hight for growth (8' but need about 1' for the lights)

was thinking a 2-3 week veg,unless ya's think it should go 4.

plan on buying the system next month and it will only be used in that room for the one run and then in spring were buying a house and it will have more room so I hope to add on the the system then


Thanks again for the help everyone.


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## Wolfhound (Oct 25, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey wolf when you get going start a journal would be awsome to follow along, looks like a good start on your room!


Thanks, Warriors in weed !
I'm planning on getting the Journal going, right from the first nutes on ! I can't hardly wait to turn on the first grow with two 600 hps! My last room was a 1k mh 10X10 in the mid '80s ! A lot has changed my friends !


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 25, 2011)

When you pull the trigger on your journal start it in the hydro section theres alot of ebb/flow users better
To stand united with our grows, keep it green!


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## buttrick (Oct 28, 2011)

kushlungs said:


> question on the moster ebb and grow
> 
> about how tall and around are ya looking at on average with them 5 gallon buckets?
> 
> ...


you can achieve 5-7 feet with the 2.5 gallon buckets. depends on what and how you grow. (hell you could probly go taller if you veg forever ) Sativa doms ive seen easily hit 6' 

with your height i wouldnt let them get past 30" tall when you flower so no more than 3 weeks on the veg. thats my two sense on it.


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## Dively (Oct 30, 2011)

Glad I finally found this thread, I am using an ebb and grow for my first grow ever and would love some comments and suggestions. See my first grow video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBJ3wwAJwxY I will be doing another update video shortly and would like to hear what people think. Thanks!


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## tommyo3000 (Oct 31, 2011)

Dear ebb and growers - 
last week I wrote Great White and email about their new Orca liquid bacteria and mycorrhizal product... Today I got the 70$ bottle for free...

The company isn't great white... but they make it.. I believe it is hydro innoovations or hydro international .... but I could be wrong.


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## med4u (Oct 31, 2011)

dbkick said:


> how do you see the roots to know? I always see someone saying something about their nice roots here but how do you see them if they're buried in rocks?


yo db,go back to the rocks,and use net pots,you'll love it


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## BikerScum (Nov 1, 2011)

Switched to the CAP Ebb and Grow after growing in dirt for "a while" and can not believe how fast this stuff is growing! Truly unbelievable!!!! WOW! I likes it!


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## med4u (Nov 1, 2011)

welcome to the club scum


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 1, 2011)

yah welcome any issue you come across just ask theres alot of tallent in here to help


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## buttrick (Nov 1, 2011)

My brain box had a hickup, it wouldn't switch the fill pump on. the fill light came on but not the pump. i unplugged the brain and filled manually by plugging in the fill pump into the wall. After hooking everything back up it works just fine now. Has anyone ever had this happen? and if so has it continued to happen or gotten worse?


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## dbkick (Nov 1, 2011)

someone did say something about that and I hope it never happens to me because I'm doing a rdwc of sorts with the controller and that could be bad.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 1, 2011)

buttrick said:


> My brain box had a hickup, it wouldn't switch the fill pump on. the fill light came on but not the pump. i unplugged the brain and filled manually by plugging in the fill pump into the wall. After hooking everything back up it works just fine now. Has anyone ever had this happen? and if so has it continued to happen or gotten worse?


yah all I do is unplug it and then plug it back in and it works fine, this is a reason im looking into the titan control box as a replacment the control
boxes are built with solidstate boards made out of germany and caps is out of china


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## dbkick (Nov 1, 2011)

med4u said:


> View attachment 1864753View attachment 1864752View attachment 1864751
> 
> yo db,go back to the rocks,and use net pots,you'll love it


 Nice, I may do one more rdwc type then its one from square one in the rocks, gonna veg in the flower room for old times sake.


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## dbkick (Nov 1, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> yah all I do is unplug it and then plug it back in and it works fine, this is a reason im looking into the titan control box as a replacment the control
> boxes are built with solidstate boards made out of germany and caps is out of china


 hell , I've not seen this glitch myself. perhaps its older versions.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 1, 2011)

dbkick said:


> hell , I've not seen this glitch myself. perhaps its older versions.


ive got 4 of the control box and 2 do it the the newer ones not a big deal if you watch your grow close


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## jdmcwestevo (Nov 6, 2011)

just got sample of the greentrees 4 gallon bucket system . also just setup my drain to waste ebb and flo. i'll have pictures up soon as my plants destress a bit from the transplant.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 6, 2011)

jdmcwestevo said:


> just got sample of the greentrees 4 gallon bucket system . also just setup my drain to waste ebb and flo. i'll have pictures up soon as my plants destress a bit from the transplant.


sweet cant wait to see


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## Tamorin (Nov 7, 2011)

I love this system, as I've said 100 times before. I use water absorbent grodan , with co2, 4 1000 watt hps, g.h. keep it simple recirculating schedule. Now I've been messing around to get 2 lbs per light. It took 5 grows and it was all because I added 3 big scoops and one little scoop to the res for each feeding starting week six on 2 ten week strains and finally hit the mark. Thank You General Hydroponics.


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## gladstoned (Nov 8, 2011)

Holy Fuck! I am at page 125. I wish there was a 'best of' for this thread. Son of a bitch, I just can't quit reading it though.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 8, 2011)

gladstoned said:


> Holy Fuck! I am at page 125. I wish there was a 'best of' for this thread. Son of a bitch, I just can't quit reading it though.


Lots of info here to take in, if you want to see the ebb in action check out my thread links bellow!


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## jdmcwestevo (Nov 9, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> Lots of info here to take in, if you want to see the ebb in action check out my thread links bellow!


i got pictures of my new setup when im not lazy i'll post a pic ur gonna nut


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 9, 2011)

Dam im in bro post em up I got one of my rooms all framed in and soom the electrical will be done!


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## BikerScum (Nov 11, 2011)

Does anyone use the General Hydroponics nutrients in their CAP? I am faily new to the Hydro thing as well as the CAP Ebb and Grow but when I add all suggested nutrients using the GH calculator, advanced formula, it makes my water foam up with brown foam and in a day or two it gets really stinky. The last res change I added H2O2 before adding the nutes to the water and this helped delay the stink but it just took an extra couple of days. Does anyone else experience this when they add new GH nutes to a fresh res? Is this normal? My plants and roots are super healthy and look great. Just wnat to make sure they stay that way, any info appreciated! ~BS


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 11, 2011)

BikerScum said:


> Does anyone use the General Hydroponics nutrients in their CAP? I am faily new to the Hydro thing as well as the CAP Ebb and Grow but when I add all suggested nutrients using the GH calculator, advanced formula, it makes my water foam up with brown foam and in a day or two it gets really stinky. The last res change I added H2O2 before adding the nutes to the water and this helped delay the stink but it just took an extra couple of days. Does anyone else experience this when they add new GH nutes to a fresh res? Is this normal? My plants and roots are super healthy and look great. Just wnat to make sure they stay that way, any info appreciated! ~BS


How you doing bro, il start off by saying congrats on the egg! First things first stop using the full gh line! There are
Thing that dont mesh well in a ebb and for a ebb&grow beginner you should stay away from organics! And stay 
Inorganic! Use gh flora series three part with sups like kool bloom liquid and powder, dimond neck...........now
For me technoflora nute line is awsome...........the brown foam is bad bactiria exspoding to life in your res and if
Stinks like poop its no good. H202 will help keep things clean not 100%! I would run a tea if your wanting a tea
Resipe let me know!


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## BikerScum (Nov 11, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> How you doing bro, il start off by saying congrats on the egg! First things first stop using the full gh line! There are
> Thing that dont mesh well in a ebb and for a ebb&grow beginner you should stay away from organics! And stay
> Inorganic! Use gh flora series three part with sups like kool bloom liquid and powder, dimond neck...........now
> For me technoflora nute line is awsome...........the brown foam is bad bactiria exspoding to life in your res and if
> ...


 
Thanks man, I did find a recipe for a tea but wasnt really sure how to use it? I would be interested in the recipe you are using in the CAP if you sont mind sharing, thanks. Do I just add it to each new res? can I add it to an existing res and quit with the H2O2? Do I need to stop using it during flush? Sorry, just bein a hydro newb!


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 11, 2011)

Heres what I brew up

Items to get
1). Myco madness from humbolt, great white works to
2). (ewc) earth worm castings, ancient forest works great to
3). Molassis
4). A clean sock
5). 5gal bucket
6). Air pump
7). Air stones


How to brew

1) Put 4gals of waterin the bucket, water needs to be close to 66f
2). Put x2 handfulls of ewc in the sock tie a knot throw it in the water
3). Add 1 to 2 tsp of myco or great white in
4). Fire up the air stones
5). Add x2 tsp of mollassis
6). Brew for 48hr

Adding instruction

1). Add 1 gal per 10gals of res to enoculate 
2). Every three days after your enoculation time add 1 cup per 10 gals 
To maintain a clean res change out every 7 to 10 days.
Also (do not use any bleach or h202 just add your nutes then tea then ph
And enjoy!


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## BikerScum (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks HR, I appreciate it. I am stuck with the GH line for a bit as I bought 1 gallon jugs of everything. But, I will stop using the ones that appear to be organic in makup. A couple were suspect from the beginning as they wre pretty brown and smelly. The res smells more like stong earthy smell, like dirt rather than poop. Thanks for the tips and recipe, i will definately give it try.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 11, 2011)

BikerScum said:


> Thanks HR, I appreciate it. I am stuck with the GH line for a bit as I bought 1 gallon jugs of everything. But, I will stop using the ones that appear to be organic in makup. A couple were suspect from the beginning as they wre pretty brown and smelly. The res smells more like stong earthy smell, like dirt rather than poop. Thanks for the tips and recipe, i will definately give it try.


Good luck and hit me up if you have anymore issues and to keep me post on yhing to would be cool peace


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## BikerScum (Nov 12, 2011)

yup, the tea is brewin now for mondays res change, thanks again. ALOT cheaper than H202 as well.


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## tommyo3000 (Nov 12, 2011)

FloraBlend IS a tea... it is pre-digested, but I think some of the bacteria go dormant and will reactivate. Using Floralicious Plus has innoculated your rez with Bacillus Subtilis... Did you use the subcultures?

what are your rez temps? Shouldn't foam up if the rez is cool..


Chech out this feed chart - it is the good one:

http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/feeding_sched/GH-FloraSeries-REC-Charts.pdf


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## gladstoned (Nov 13, 2011)

I am using the full line of GH and I have not been very impressed. My res temps are running high and I won't have a chiller for a week or two.


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## BikerScum (Nov 13, 2011)

tommyo3000 said:


> FloraBlend IS a tea... it is pre-digested, but I think some of the bacteria go dormant and will reactivate. Using Floralicious Plus has innoculated your rez with Bacillus Subtilis... Did you use the subcultures?
> 
> what are your rez temps? Shouldn't foam up if the rez is cool..
> 
> ...


my res is kept at 65F with a chiller. My PH is at 5.8 to 6.0. It does it every time. Not sure why and everything seems healthy and happy. the scehdule you provided (thanks) is pretty much what I am using.


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## tommyo3000 (Nov 13, 2011)

BikerScum said:


> my res is kept at 65F with a chiller. My PH is at 5.8 to 6.0. It does it every time. Not sure why and everything seems healthy and happy. the scehdule you provided (thanks) is pretty much what I am using.


sounds like you are not using florashield... they would recommend it for your foam


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 16, 2011)

Wtf is with this thread either forum buged or my end jacked up


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## dtp5150 (Nov 16, 2011)

can someone who runs an organic nute tea in their rez post:
1. nute tea brewing methods
2. timer schedule
3. ph / ec of nute tea

pics of their healthy root system or big buds always appreciated.

otherwise..
a sterile 3 part such as gh plus a lil extra love like koolboom liquid makes fat nuggets with well water 

i actually got great results with floranova and pura vida grow as well


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 16, 2011)

Bugged is all i got to say


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 16, 2011)

dtp5150 said:


> can someone who runs an organic nute tea in their rez post:
> 1. nute tea brewing methods
> 2. timer schedule
> 3. ph / ec of nute tea
> ...


My tds x500 of my tea is +100 over my tap and thats 100 so 200
My tea resipe on 251 or 251 of this thread. 
And that got time schedule


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## BikerScum (Nov 17, 2011)

I cant help but notice how much more frosty my buds are in Hydro as opposed to soil. I have grown several crops of this strain and NEVER seen results like this in soil. WOW. very nice. I always had great results in soil with NO complaints at all but damn!


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## dbkick (Dec 10, 2011)

Ok I got some advanced type questions for you people. I'm about to go back to using my ebb monster as its made, with dyna gro rokII and flooding every whenever, my question is this.......I just had a bout with fungus gnats in a rdwc type setup of the monster. Now from what I understand gnats aren't attracted unless theres a fungus present. since I've been trying to run a sterile res(totally sterile is impossible I think) and seeing it not work (gnats present so there must be fungi some-fucking-where) I've been leaning towards bennie bacteria and fungi......now the question...IF fungus being present IS what attracts these asshat gnats is it a good idea to run bennies(bacteria and fungi)? anyone, anyone?


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## dipstick333 (Dec 10, 2011)

thehiena said:


> Finaly I've found a thread I can relate to, I also use the ebb n grow buckets but I haven't been able to fine tune it 100%, I drilled some more holes on the inner buckets because the roots were clogging the holes at the bottom so I made holes on the side of the inner buckets, now the roots come out of those hole too but not enough to clog them.
> The only problem I have is something call the claw, I've tried diffrent nutes but always end up with the claw don''t know what causes it.
> I water my plants 5 times a day, and I change the rez every 18 days and I flush for 1 day in between.


Hey, I get the same thing, using the ebb/grow. Ive been trying to figure it out for a while now. Ive got nothing. If I figure anything out, ill hit you up. Good luck.


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## dbkick (Dec 10, 2011)

dipstick333 said:


> Hey, I get the same thing, using the ebb/grow. Ive been trying to figure it out for a while now. Ive got nothing. If I figure anything out, ill hit you up. Good luck.


 I put a mesh screen at the bottom of the inner bucket (mainly because my rokII are too small and go thru the holes, wonder if this will keep the roots in.


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## dtp5150 (Dec 10, 2011)

an easy way to double rez capacity is just get another 55/60gal drum, fill it up, and start a siphon between the two barrels. I used 1" tubing. They will automatically keep the same level between the two barrels. probably gotta run a few cycles before osmosis evens everything out with respect to ppm and ph. I am trying this out now.


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## med4u (Dec 12, 2011)

howdy fellas,just dropped in to see how ya'll doin' and throw a little diy ditty up,for chillin your res without buyin' a chiller,i cut a 6in hole in the top of my res,put a 8in to 6in vent reducer in the hole,then put a 6in muffin fan in that,plugged her in and dropped my temps almost 10 degrees,i think the whole setup was just under 20 bucks,kind of a swamp cooler gig,also i wrapped the res with some of that mylar bubble wrap insulation works a treat


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2011)

med4u said:


> howdy fellas,just dropped in to see how ya'll doin' and throw a little diy ditty up,for chillin your res without buyin' a chiller,i cut a 6in hole in the top of my res,put a 8in to 6in vent reducer in the hole,then put a 6in muffin fan in that,plugged her in and dropped my temps almost 10 degrees,i think the whole setup was just under 20 bucks,kind of a swamp cooler gig,also i wrapped the res with some of that mylar bubble wrap insulation works a treat


I like that simple and alot less exspense in electic


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## med4u (Dec 12, 2011)

dbkick said:


> Ok I got some advanced type questions for you people. I'm about to go back to using my ebb monster as its made, with dyna gro rokII and flooding every whenever, my question is this.......I just had a bout with fungus gnats in a rdwc type setup of the monster. Now from what I understand gnats aren't attracted unless theres a fungus present. since I've been trying to run a sterile res(totally sterile is impossible I think) and seeing it not work (gnats present so there must be fungi some-fucking-where) I've been leaning towards bennie bacteria and fungi......now the question...IF fungus being present IS what attracts these asshat gnats is it a good idea to run bennies(bacteria and fungi)? anyone, anyone?


yo db hows it growin'? have you tried the bleach formula mentioned in this thread? might wanna give it a shot,i use it and it keeps everything sparkely clean with no bugs or pathogens chk to make sure but i believe it was 100ml bleach to 1gal h2o,then use it at 5ml/gal for the first hit then 2.5/gal daily till problem gone,i hit it every week for maintenance
also if your runnin co2 crank her up to 10 to 15k ppm it will kill all bugs,just keep it monitored at those sustained levels it could take you out too
also if you got roots growin thru your bucket holes,try the net pots with rock,the roots hang free and when you flood it keeps the roots from growin thru the holes i grow trees in em good luck bro


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## hornedfrog2000 (Dec 12, 2011)

med4u said:


> yo db hows it growin'? have you tried the bleach formula mentioned in this thread? might wanna give it a shot,i use it and it keeps everything sparkely clean with no bugs or pathogens chk to make sure but i believe it was 100ml bleach to 1gal h2o,then use it at 5ml/gal for the first hit then 2.5/gal daily till problem gone,i hit it every week for maintenance
> also if your runnin co2 crank her up to 10 to 15k ppm it will kill all bugs,just keep it monitored at those sustained levels it could take you out too
> also if you got roots growin thru your bucket holes,try the net pots with rock,the roots hang free and when you flood it keeps the roots from growin thru the holes i grow trees in em good luck bro View attachment 1930704View attachment 1930705



I think you typed that wrong. 100ml?


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2011)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> I think you typed that wrong. 100ml?


Im thinking that to even 10ml per gal is to high


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## med4u (Dec 12, 2011)

hellraizer30 said:


> I like that simple and alot less exspense in electic


hiya helly,the pioneer of all this stuff,hows it goin'? you say your doin a build?i should think you'd need a fricken wharehouse bro lol cant wait to chk it out good luck wit it


to clarify,100ml to 1 gal of h2o,now you have 1 gal of pre diluted mix,use 5ml/gal of that pre diluted mix for the initial hit,then 2.5 dailey sound better?


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2011)

med4u said:


> hiya helly,the pioneer of all this stuff,hows it goin'? you say your doin a build?i should think you'd need a fricken wharehouse bro lol cant wait to chk it out good luck wit it
> 
> 
> to clarify,100ml to 1 gal of h2o,now you have 1 gal of pre diluted mix,use 5ml/gal of that pre diluted mix for the initial hit,then 2.5 dailey sound better?


Yes you are very right here one thing thats always over looked and i even forgot to say is to dilute it!
Spot on med4u


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## hornedfrog2000 (Dec 12, 2011)

Why pre dilute it? It would start to dissipate once you mixed it in an open container right?


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2011)

No its needed to dilute to break up the bleach so theres no hot spots


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## med4u (Dec 12, 2011)

gallon milk jug full of h2o add your bleach cap it and it last quit a while,but yes when exposed it dissapates quit rapidly about the same rate as h2o2 which i believe is 24 to 36 hours for total molecular seperation and i think chlorine only take 15 to 30 min to dissapate from tap water,i'll look that one up again to be sure ,also use chlorox unsented bleach

good god, dont let research kitty read this shed have all our eyes clawed out by now lol


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## BikerScum (Dec 12, 2011)

So I started flush last night, only a few more days till harvest! I can not believe how frickin big my Bluberry plant got. It was a clone on 9/15 and is now over 4-5' wide and just as tall with some of the nicest BIGGEST purple stems, leaves and buds I have seen! I have cropped this exact strain several times in soil, but this is truly exceptional! It is going to be an awesome yield. The bluedream and orange kush are as frosty as I have ever seen as well. How did I waste so much time in soil before finding hydro and specifically the ebb and gro!! Freakin awesome!!!


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## Rickybobby0007 (Dec 14, 2011)

Whats up CAP users!!?? I'm looking to get a new system and I need some advice. I want to go with CAP because I want to expand to 36 sites (Titan is maxed at 24). I'm a bit concerned the 2.5gal buckets are a bit small but I think I'll be ok.

My biggest worry is quality... everyone talks about the CAP system like it is complete crap! Can someone give me feedback that has bought a NEW CAP system in the last few months.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 14, 2011)

Rickybobby0007 said:


> Whats up CAP users!!?? I'm looking to get a new system and I need some advice. I want to go with CAP because I want to expand to 36 sites (Tital is maxed at 24). I'm a bit concerned the 2.5gal buckets are a bit small but I think I'll be ok.
> 
> My biggest worry is quality... everyone talks about the CAP system like it is complete crap! Can someone give me feedback that has bought a NEW CAP system in the last few months.


Hey ricky heres a link that might put your mind at ease on the buckets being to small

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/451539-hellraizers-10x10-x2-tents-running.html


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2011)

The secret to running a lot of buckets is to use a little extra hose. I really recommend taking your buckets down to the machine shop and upgrading your hose line to 3/4" (make holes in bucket and controller 1" diameter for grommet). Short of that ... imagine the roots getting down into the first 12" of your hose, so make sure everything is wired so that a root ball won't impede any buckets down the line.

Also, leave one of the far buckets empty so that you can see and catch any hickups with the fill/drain cycle.

If you set up the CAP system correctly, it's almost fool-proof. The float valves can go out, so that's why you have to keep an eye on it. My system has been pretty flawless mechanically. I've upgraded to 3 gallon pots with 3/4" line, and I really like the results in the garden. I have a friend with two CAP systems. He's gone through 2 controllers already, but he's gotten good support from CAP when he called. Replacements didn't cost him anything, and it's still rocking.

I personally wouldn't do 36 though. You're going to have to refill your reservior every day. I'd do 12 x 3 Monster Buckets. It's only money.


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## chicoguy (Dec 16, 2011)

First time Ebb&gro user nearing the end of harvest. I've been running 1300-1500ppm GH lucas formula for 9 weeks flowering and want to cut them down before christmas.

Is flushing necessary in Ebb & gro like it is in soil? I've been good about flushing the pots from the top to remove excess buildup but do I really need to take another 3-4 days to flush with low (300-400ppm) 1/8th strength nutrient water? 

Has anybody found that flushing affects the taste in ebb&gro hydro??

thanks


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2011)

chicoguy said:


> First time Ebb&gro user nearing the end of harvest. I've been running 1300-1500ppm GH lucas formula for 9 weeks flowering and want to cut them down before christmas.
> 
> Is flushing necessary in Ebb & gro like it is in soil? I've been good about flushing the pots from the top to remove excess buildup but do I really need to take another 3-4 days to flush with low (300-400ppm) 1/8th strength nutrient water?
> 
> ...


With hydro, you only need 3 or 4 days of flushing (not 2 weeks like dirt). I use FloraKleen for flushing. No nutes, just clean water and FloraKleen (GH) for 3 days, then 1 day of NO WATER. Then cut the lights off and start chopping when the lights should be comming on.

Also, I like to cut the light back to 10 hours during the last 2 weeks. That will really tell the girls "shits about to go down."

Yes, I've noticed a difference when is bud not flushed. Not much difference, and maybe it's all in my head, but it's just not as sweet. I know, because I usually chop a few of the lower branches with about a week to go. I'm usually out of bud by then, and I know I'll need something for the trim party that next week. It's not cured much by trim day, but it's always nice to sample what you're trimming. Don't chop too much too early. I take a 1/2 zip worth off the low branches, and that'll be enough.


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## Warlock1369 (Dec 17, 2011)

I run the Titan setup. But same style. I flush everytime but what I have found is it's not realy needed if you arnt useing a bloom booster. If you are I would say flush for a min. of 4-7 days. If your are just doing nutes then you might not need to. Also is this for personal use or others? If it's for you try one way now and another next grow then deside. But if it's for others I would recommend flushing no matter what. Yes I do agree with the donor flush people on the fact that you are starving the plants at that time but that's the point. The plant will use up all stored surgars and water holding some of the nutes in it's broke down form. And replaced with water. It's all gonna be up to you.


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## newwb (Dec 22, 2011)

I have failed pretty badly at my attempt to grow in soil, and bought a CAP ebb and grow about 6 weeks or so ago, got a great deal on it, from all the diff internet sites that had much higher prices I went with the horticulture site, they were offering the 12 pot setup for 390 ish and I also got a 6 pot expansion set(because I can grow 15, so WHY only grow 12!!)for both I paid about 450, and shipping wasn't that bad considering it comes mostly packed inside the 65 gal res. 
I knew there HAD to be a thread for E&G users, so glad I finally found it mentioned on another thread and looked it up under a users profile who mentioned it (mucho thanks!)
OK..I have a room that is 8x6, I panda filmed off an area of about 6x5, which is where it will all ultimately be setup...with the smaller part of the room entrance basically has my table for all my junk, nutes, meters, etc..outside this room is my utility room with my washer/dryer and a huge shelf/wall unit..in the corner outside the grow room is where I am going to keep my Res. It's a cold area, not well insulated, and can't afford a chiller at this time, so I figure this will work out nicely, except the tubing is so squirley from being wound up in tight rolls, they won't lay on the ground, just kind of corkskrew there way into the room.
The door is off the room, but plan on putting it back by the time I need to flip to 12 hrs. Can anyone think of a way I could run this without putting holes through the wall?
If I let it run under the door, well, I can't, door is a snug fit and would flatten tubing...the 2nd part of my question, I saw greenthumbsuckers setup and grow log (which convinced me on this system, btw..) and he seems to have his hard plumbed with PVC pipe?
How difficult would this be to do? And could I keep all 15 plants in the footprint of 1-1,000 watter, or may I have to change to 2-600 watters (which I have read are more efficient to both the plants and electricity bills)
Any Washington Medical patients on here using this system?
Also, I noticed the pumps are extremely cheesey and cheap (I have a huge koi pond, so I KNOW what a good pump looks like) these come apart on one side, where you attach the suction cups, I can barely get them to stay together, should I upgrade or just use some crazy glue?
Any pics of how you have your systems plumbed would be great (note: the first thing I have ever built was 2 PVC manifold things with sprayers attached because I was going to use the 6' netpots and totes, but could not find 1 type that didn't leak when I turned on my 550 GPH pump) 
Am so glad I found this thread...I went and got GH micro and bloom only, plan to do the lucas formula but can't find an exact answer on when to start feeding my babies( I have 7 seedlings that popped about 8 days ago and most are working on their 2nd set of leaves, which is when I was told to start feeding..at 2 sets of leafs? And I can't imagine you'd start babes out with the 8ml/16ml dose..
Any help there would be greatly appreciated...do you E&G users that start from seed, or clone for that matter, wait until the roots come out the bottom of the rock wool before putting into the system?
I have my 7 babies in the pots already with hydroton, but am hand watering until I feel it's safe to start feeding them...will attach a couple pics of them, I read on a few sites not to give any nutes for 3-4 weeks...that seems a long time with no food..though I DO USE CLONEX, which is 1-.5-1 in my h20 waterings.
Thanks in advance for any input...
Carie


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## newwb (Dec 22, 2011)

Oh..here are the babes...


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 22, 2011)

Looking good newwb watch the flood line for a bit! You might have to hand water till you get roots


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## newwb (Dec 22, 2011)

ohh I have trouble!!
I put about 25 gal in res to test it out and give them a good watering, somethings not right...it doesn't fill but maybe 2-3", and when I click it to drain, it runs and runs...and nothing empties out that sm amount in each bucket...and on my control module the center grommet on both sides leaks...like not just a little, but enough I had to lay a towel down.
Now my floor in the laundry room is about an inch or so lower than the rooms floor, which I thought, great, I don't have to set them up on anything to get them to drain completely..maybe I don't have the correct tubing going, the directions were laughable and not very helpful..
Should I just wait until roots come through the bottom of the 4"x4" rock wool before I start flood/draining twice a day?
What would you recommend?
Frustrated in Seattle


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## newwb (Dec 23, 2011)

Hellraiser...anyone??? LOL...I tried running the E&G for a daily watering to make sure everything is in working order...and I'm a bit lost, do you have to plug your res. pump power cord into the plug-ins on the side of the control bucket?
For some reason, got a small amount of water in controller and buckets (like an inch-two) and it just stopped there...so I turned the timer till the drain light came on and it didn't drain everything, damn I must have the tubing setup wrong...it says in the very inadequate instruction page,says "cut a piece of 1/2" tubing long enough to connect the pump to the bottom of the right hand straight connector" I assumed this was right hand side viewing the control bucket from the front? Then on the left I have a piece about 8' long that runs outside the room to the res.
I am just curious what the pump in the res does all of the time, because they normally pump when plugged in, right?
So I tried filling the control bucket,but it was draining down the "special vacuum elbow" back into the res...and after I unplugged the pump in the res, it bubbled for about 5-7 min...is this normal?
So where it stands, It won't fill up the control bucket all the way, and I get only 1-2" of h2o in my buckets....somethings not hooked up right or my controller is a dud...
anyone else have such issues?
Please let me know asap...as the girls are going to be needing this to run here pretty soon..
Oh, and I am not entirely sure how to set the programmed timer..is each cog like a 15 min or 1/2 hr interval? And how long do you have to set it to fill and drain 2x a day? And do you set it to the current time like on the light timer??

Thank you in advance for any help, it is much appreciated..
C.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 23, 2011)

newwb said:


> Hellraiser...anyone???


Hard to read your writing but I'll try to help.



newwb said:


> LOL...I tried running the E&G for a daily watering to make sure everything is in working order...and I'm a bit lost, do you have to plug your res. pump power cord into the plug-ins on the side of the control bucket?


Yes, the "Controller" controlls both pumps. The pump in the res should be plugged into the FILL plug. The pump inside the controller should be plugged into the DRAIN plug.



newwb said:


> For some reason, got a small amount of water in controller and buckets (like an inch-two) and it just stopped there...so I turned the timer till the drain light came on and it didn't drain everything, damn I must have the tubing setup wrong...


The water will only drain from the buckets to the lowest point of the connectors. The older style buckets always had an inch or so in the bottom. If there is two inches of water still in the controller though, you have a problem. 1. Make sure the float valves are not obstructed by any hose or the pump. 2. Make sure the pump inside the controller is facing DOWN. Look at the pump and you'll see one side with a little mesh filter, that's where the water is sucked in though. If the sucker part of the pump is not faced down it won't be able to get all of the water out.



newwb said:


> it says in the very inadequate instruction page,says "cut a piece of 1/2" tubing long enough to connect the pump to the bottom of the right hand straight connector" I assumed this was right hand side viewing the control bucket from the front? Then on the left I have a piece about 8' long that runs outside the room to the res.
> I am just curious what the pump in the res does all of the time, because they normally pump when plugged in, right?


I'm a little lost here. The pump in the controller should be plumbed to drain water back into the res (thats why it's called the DRAIN pump). The pump in the reservior should utilize the "special vacuum elbow", and it should be plumbed to dump water into the controller (it's the FILL pump). The vacuum elbow does exactly that, it breaks the syphon effect between the res and the controller. Without it, the fill pump will kick on and won't stop until you run the res dry (it will cause a major flood).



newwb said:


> So I tried filling the control bucket,but it was draining down the "special vacuum elbow" back into the res...and after I unplugged the pump in the res, it bubbled for about 5-7 min...is this normal?
> So where it stands, It won't fill up the control bucket all the way, and I get only 1-2" of h2o in my buckets....somethings not hooked up right or my controller is a dud...
> anyone else have such issues?
> Please let me know asap...as the girls are going to be needing this to run here pretty soon..
> Oh, and I am not entirely sure how to set the programmed timer..is each cog like a 15 min or 1/2 hr interval? And how long do you have to set it to fill and drain 2x a day? And do you set it to the current time like on the light timer??


The timer should be set to the correct time of day. Push all of the tines in, but push two out (if you want to water twice). One tine equals 15 min. The first water should happen around the same time the lights come on, and the second one a couple hours later. I water every 4 hours fyi. Make sure all of your connections are correct then run again. If this doesn't help then we may need some pictures of what you've got going. Good luck

Thank you in advance for any help, it is much appreciated..
C.[/QUOTE]


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## newwb (Dec 24, 2011)

ok, in lies my problem, I have my res in my laundry room about 8 feet from the controller(my idea to keep the res sol cooler..)but that wont work if it needs to be plugged into the control bucket, sorry, I actually saw NOWHERE on directions that said the pumps needed to be plugged into the 2 plugs on controller, and just thought they were extra plugs for peripheral equipment..lol..so I just found my problem thanks so kindly to you for your time in answering my question!, I had the res just plugged it into the wall of the laundry room, no wonder it didn't know what to do =-O...sighs..lol...see what I mean by mechanically challenged =-\
A day you don't learn something new is a day wasted...
And happy Holidays!!


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## newwb (Dec 24, 2011)

Thank you soo much smokinggrubber!!


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## newwb (Dec 24, 2011)

Now my only real problem is on the controller, each side has 3 straight connectors for the 1/4" tubing, at least one on each side is leaking any time there is water in it...
I have also thought of going up to 1/2-3/4 ID tubing(or even PVC at some point), when those of you whom have made this mod, have you also changed pumps, or just the connectors?
They just seem be very cheap and pump failure could be an epic fail...
what do you guys think


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## rsxr0884 (Dec 25, 2011)

1/4"? I thought that all e and g's have 1/2" barbs coming out of the side. As for changin the pumps, it would be a good idea to since u would want to fill up the buckets faster. Active aqua makes some decent pumps for cheap and are available at any hydro store.


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## newwb (Dec 25, 2011)

ohh..I think they're 1/4"...not one E&G user had/has leaky grommets in their controller?
Of course, I would have to be THAT ONE!
lol..seriously...you've heard of Murphy's law? Sheesh, I even got a tube of liq nails, like a clear silicone, went around all of the control bucket grommets, and now instead of 2 bath towels, I'm "only" soaking 2 dish towels, but still not where I can leave everything plugged in and just be gone for a day, or whatever.So I plug the controller in to do my 2 daily water/feedings, then unplug before it starts flooding the buckets a second time, where is my "easy" button? haha
That IS why I got this thing, the automation of it all..
Have another question, my ph was stable all day at 5.6, I just finished a flood and drain, now it is reading 6...wth..I only have 6 pots hooked up right now with 13 day old baby girls...(they will be 2 weeks from popping tomorrow)
I am using the lucas form, I am starting to see a LOT of threads that say this isn't the best for vegging? I am starting to notice the newest growth is a shade lighter green, must need more N?
Will post some pics, perhaps some nice person will make a comment/suggestion, and please let me know what to do if they are looking N deficient, as it is I am at like 480 ppm on 2 wk olds..they're hungry girls..
Merry Christmas all...and Happy Holidays..


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## newwb (Dec 26, 2011)

rsxr0884 said:


> 1/4"? I thought that all e and g's have 1/2" barbs coming out of the side. As for changin the pumps, it would be a good idea to since u would want to fill up the buckets faster. Active aqua makes some decent pumps for cheap and are available at any hydro store.


My apologies, they are 1/2".


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 26, 2011)

Newwb if your useing lucus you should go to 5/8/16 to up the n!
As for gromits leaking! Hmm ive never had one leak! Maybe have
Cap send new ones


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## newwb (Dec 26, 2011)

I replaced them, all 6, with brand new ones from my hydro store, am starting to think when they machined the holes, a few got fine cracks u can't see...I even used liquid nails clear sticky stuff all around the grommets, and as I said, I am down from soaking 2 bath towels to 2 hand towels, an improvement, but hell the thing is brand new, I'm just worried how long they may take to replace the controller, and I guess it would be ok to just hand water 2-3x a day while I'm waiting for the new one? Am at 2 weeks today on the babies, and only 3/7 have roots coming out the bottom of the 4"x4" rock wool, should this be a concern?
And what do you mean 5-8-16, I thought the whole point of the lucas method is that you save $ by not using the first part?( I only bought the micro and bloom) which to me, seems a bit low on the NPK, the 2 together only equal 5-5-5...I see foods out there with double+ those amounts (though they DID give my plants nute burn, and this formula hasn't as of yet..)I did have the freebie nutes that came w/ the CAP E&G (BC nutes) I added 2 capfuls of the boost and 1 capful of grow to the 30-35 gal in my res., it only brought my ppm back up to around 480, I should be ok there?After their first ebb and drain they are already looking less pale on the new growth *fingers crossed*
I had a 2 port air pump for a bubble cloner that never worked, I added the 2 stones into my res for a little extra o2..can't hurt I'm guessing. They just dangle 1/2 way through the nute solution, helping to mix in adds, and aerate.
Thank you for your ongoing replies, lol..you have been a huge help!
C


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 26, 2011)

Saving money yes but not all strain can do good by lucas, some need more cause there more demanding


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## newwb (Dec 27, 2011)

ok, do you know which strains don't do well, I am doing Icex3 and Bubbleiciousx4(I think same as "bubble gum" on n on nirvana site)seems to be a slight yellowing of new growth on the fastest growers, the bubbles...I even added more N to the mix..I think I am at 560 ppm, isn't that high for 2 week old babies?
They seem to be yelling "more!!" My tap h20 fresh out of the tap, surprisingly, is only about 50 ppm, so I reckon I don't need the R/O?
(what deficiencies may I run into with that low ppm in my well h20?Seems I read on one of these forums if your ppm is that low you may run into problems..) Is it calcium..?
The girls look like they are starting to go light green again at top with the newest growth, last time I bumped them from like 480 to 580 ppm..not showing any nute burn, that I am aware of, but bubble #3 has a tiny tear on the edge of one of her leafs, it could be nute burn, but my guess is she is closest to the tower fan I turned it down to low instead of high...
Am including birthday pics...2 weeks today! And it is so amazing to watch how fast they grow..I have a greater vested interest in them then the half dead, cut-for clones to death plants I had from the disp. that are all but 1 dead now...I actually need to find a home for the big girl...shes coming out of whatever happened when I put the oregonism xl into the soil...all plants I had died from that junk!
I can't justify running a 2nd 1,000 watt light for a single plant, so if anyone is a legal Washington patient, and you have some in flower or about to, I do have a pretty bulky indica, not sure of the strain but the guy who it came from grows a lot of romulanxgrapefruit, romulan..so chances are it's a head denter.
Has a thick tree like stalk, I believe it was a mother plant, though that was denied (it had over 20+ cuttings off it when I got it) I didn't know any better..will post her pic at the end of the baby girls 2 wk pics...
Thanks and happy growing..
BTW~~I AM PISSED...I called and wrote to CAP (makers of the ebb&grow) and they basically told me to buy another control bucket (over 300, when I paid 390 for the whole works!!) and send mine in to be looked at re: the leaky grommets, etc...that they would "credit" me back once my defective unit is received...bad gut feeling on this one...
Put a 5 year warranty on something then make it this damn difficult to get help if it isn't up to par...annoying!
So for now I am sticking with 2 dish towels to soak up the nutes it wastes every time I run a cycle on it 
I have a general question regarding PH...when I get ready to flood the buckets I always look up to check my numbers on the monitor, I'm starting with 5.5 PH but after each fill and drain it does up over 6...6.3 was the highest...I read somewhere it going up is good, means they're growing, but should they go up that much?
it takes one cap full of the PH down to return it to 5.5 (not sure but I think I only have about 14-15 gal in my res.and I'm having to do this after each drain cycle...is something else going on I may be unaware of?
They are def. growing, better than some I see, not as well as others, I'd say average..
What would be the max ppm you'd feel safe going up to at their age (2 weeks today)??


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## rsxr0884 (Dec 27, 2011)

I found that going by ppms is not as good as converting to EC Some people have different meters than others and their ppms are different than others. If your using a hanna ur conversion would b at .5 and would give u an ec 1-1.1 Thats a bit high IMO but if it works go for it. If u see signs of stress try topping off with fresh water to lower the ppms. Here is the link for the conversion for EC http://www.gardenscure.com/420/hydroponics/96521-printable-ec-ppm-cf-conversion-chart.html

As for the cap issue, SOme people have bought a aquahub controller. Similar to the cap controller but eith a few more safety swithces. Here is the link and it is way less than the cap controller. Probably would be better to buy this and use it and send ur cap controller to the manufacturer for the warranty fix. Here is the link http://www.aquahub.com/store/product39.html


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## newwb (Dec 27, 2011)

I was wondering about that, my hanna meter gives a completely different reading than my cwp instruments wall control thingy...and I have calibrated both off of the calib liqs that came with the cwp monitor/24/7..(read ppm, PH and res temp) and I JUST finally got a ppm meter, now u say I need to go by ec?
Hate to tell ya this, but I suck at math 
Thanks so much for your reply!!!


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## smokingrubber (Dec 28, 2011)

Newwb you need more hydroton. You should put enough hydroto in the bucket to completely cover the rockwool. 

You should also raise the buckets by 1 or 2 inches. I use upside down pot saucers. I use these: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202265241/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

My wall mounted Hanna meter completely SUCKS! For some reason it's interfered with by the digital ballasts. I am only able to get an accurate meter reading when the lights are off. I don't know if that is the same for you, but it's something to be aware of.

The only time my controller leaked was after I CUT my old hoses off. When I cut them, I scored the barbs and destroyed the water-seal. I had to hit them with a little sandpaper then they worked. Since then, I've upgraded all my hoses to 3/4". I had to drill 1" holes in all of my buckets and replace all the barbs. I ALWAYS throw away the old hose after every cycle and replace it with new stuff. This can be a little expensive, but it's better than dealing with old hose!


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## gladstoned (Dec 28, 2011)

Ya, but older hoes still need to pay their bills somehow. Oh, wrong internet site. sorry.


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## newwb (Dec 28, 2011)

NICE...EAT A COCK ^^^
and I know about the hydroton.., I bought another bag of hydroton, but then my truck broke down, it's sitting at a friends house in her garage, I'm sure one day she will bring it by, and all my buckets are raised on 2x4's.I like it, drains them fully, I really pre rinsed my hydroton, soaked it a couple days and rinsed, but I still get hydrton crumbs in the outer buckets, common?.
Thanks for the advice, and liking the dick above callihng me an old hoe


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## gladstoned (Dec 29, 2011)

newwb said:


> NICE...EAT A COCK ^^^
> and I know about the hydroton.., I bought another bag of hydroton, but then my truck broke down, it's sitting at a friends house in her garage, I'm sure one day she will bring it by, and all my buckets are raised on 2x4's.I like it, drains them fully, I really pre rinsed my hydroton, soaked it a couple days and rinsed, but I still get hydrton crumbs in the outer buckets, common?.
> Thanks for the advice, and liking the dick above callihng me an old hoe


How the hell did you get me calling you a hoe out of that comment? That's a guilty concious right there! You must be one of those old dirty ass perverted motherfuckers. lol. Then girls were like "newwb, you want me to what...?!" You are outted now.


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## Tryypod (Jan 6, 2012)

Has anyone tried using this 105 gal res with a 24 site system? Or would I just be better off with 2-55 gal drums linked? I know the 2 drums r alot cheaper but would like to save room too.
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-13841-105-gallon-stand-up-reservoir.aspx

Nvmnow that I think about would be a pain modifying and mixing nutes


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## gladstoned (Jan 7, 2012)

Tryypod said:


> Has anyone tried using this 105 gal res with a 24 site system? Or would I just be better off with 2-55 gal drums linked? I know the 2 drums r alot cheaper but would like to save room too.
> http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-13841-105-gallon-stand-up-reservoir.aspx
> 
> Nvmnow that I think about would be a pain modifying and mixing nutes


That is an awful lot of water for twenty four buckets, isn't it? Or are you trying to set it up to operate on autopilot for a length of time?


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## Tryypod (Jan 7, 2012)

Sorry im planning on using the Titan Ebb n Flo with 4 gal buckets.
Ill look and see if there is a thread for that system as it seems this is for the Cap ebb n gro systems.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 9, 2012)

The 2 systems are the same just different buckets types but concepts the same, so post all you want is a open thread


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## Hydro daze (Jan 14, 2012)

Ph drifting up everyday!ph will go from 5.5-6.4! I'm running 32 buckets in 4x8 tent second week veg. Full 55 gallon res. Using heavy 16 veg and liquid karma+h2o2 ppms at 600.Water temp 72-74. Air temp 82-84 light on- 72-74 light off. Rh 39%. Co2! Anyone else have to ph every day? My mom tent (8 buckets) seems to be alot mote stable. I ph it every 3 days! So I think it's the fact that I'm running more buckets on that res and there for ph rises faster!? Any ideas?


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## Hydro daze (Jan 14, 2012)

Any heavy16 users having same problem as above?


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## Refusedpanda (Jan 14, 2012)

hydro daze, sounds like you're running tap water. right? if yes, that is why it rises every day. buffers in your tap water. I would get a RO system.


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## Hydro daze (Jan 14, 2012)

Nope, using RO water! After running water thru RO waters at 30 ppms ph at 6.6! Thanks for the quick reply! Any other recommendations?


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 14, 2012)

I use heavy 16 and RO water in my 15 site flo n grow. No big drift 5.5-6.0 so it's within my range. But I don't use H2o2 so maybe with that's it. But with 34 sites I'm gonna say your ph is gonna flex.


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## Hydro daze (Jan 14, 2012)

32 sites must be the issue! Only need the healthiest 24 for flower! Think it about time to get it down to around 26 and see if that helps! This is my first round with heavy 16 and it seems like u got to stay on top of the ph a little more!Hey warlock how many time u run heavy 16? U like ? Heard good things but it's hard to beat dyno gro! We will see!


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 14, 2012)

I'm on my 4th full grow. I've tryed alot of others and this is great IMO. Alot less to worry about and cleaning my tank is easyer then ever. Plus I get almost 2 grows out of 1 set and only need to add 2 supplements. I'm not going to change.


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## Hydro daze (Jan 14, 2012)

Sounds good! What supplements you using!I'm running liquid karma in veg and plan on big bud and overdrive in flower!


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## bowlfullofbliss (Jan 14, 2012)

The upward drift will slow down after a couple of weeks. It's the hydroton, it has a high PH, so the runoff is obviously higher. I check my PH in the morning and in the evening, every single day.....you can't skip a day. It only takes 5 tsp or so to knock down my res with 40 gallons. I suggest making it easy on your self and buy a paint mixing bit for a high speed drill, it really mixes things up fast and easy. The ph will stabolize, just have to watch it. If you can afford the time at the beginning of your next run, try filling the res, with the pots full of the hydroton up to the water line in the pots, and fill and drain for a couple of days with low ph, it helps to get the clay prepped for the nutes.

I use well water BTW, which also has a high natural PH of over 8.


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 14, 2012)

Hydro daze said:


> Sounds good! What supplements you using!I'm running liquid karma in veg and plan on big bud and overdrive in flower!


I'm useing hygrozyme and liquid karma thru out the grow. And sence I'm using RO water I need N-cal-mag by grow more. In flower I also add open sesame, beastie bloomz, and cha ching. Not needed but I like it.


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## babysas (Jan 14, 2012)

i am on my 3nd grow and i switched to dyna-gro from fox-farm full line ..my ph has never been this stable....it's riding on rails...i only check it like 2-4 times a week now...oh my res isn't stock..its a rubbermaid container


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## Hydro daze (Jan 14, 2012)

bowlfullofbliss said:


> The upward drift will slow down after a couple of weeks. It's the hydroton, it has a high PH, so the runoff is obviously higher. I check my PH in the morning and in the evening, every single day.....you can't skip a day. It only takes 5 tsp or so to knock down my res with 40 gallons. I suggest making it easy on your self and buy a paint mixing bit for a high speed drill, it really mixes things up fast and easy. The ph will stabolize, just have to watch it. If you can afford the time at the beginning of your next run, try filling the res, with the pots full of the hydroton up to the water line in the pots, and fill and drain for a couple of days with low ph, it helps to get the clay prepped for the nutes.
> 
> 
> I use well water BTW, which also has a high natural PH of over 8.


this makes sense since this is some of my newer clay! seems that around 3ml of ph down a day keeps it in check!


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## Hydro daze (Jan 14, 2012)

babysas said:


> i am on my 3nd grow and i switched to dyna-gro from fox-farm full line ..my ph has never been this stable....it's riding on rails...i only check it like 2-4 times a week now...oh my res isn't stock..its a rubbermaid container


if i dont see improvements with heavy 16 back to dyno gro


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## babysas (Jan 14, 2012)

Hydro daze said:


> if i dont see improvements with heavy 16 back to dyno gro


after reading some more,i think its the pro-tekt that that keeps the ph in check...


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## Hydro daze (Jan 14, 2012)

So u think it's the pro tek that keeps the ph in check! I'll check into that!


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## jakeman311 (Jan 19, 2012)

These things are poorly engineered piece of sh*t. Im on my 6th run in a particular room right now this P.O.S. and Im already regretting setting this disaster waiting to happen up. Ive tinkered, toyed, experimented and ran tests on every freaking thing you can do and add with this system and every time it is a high maintenance piece of shit. I been through 3 controller buckets because they keep failing. Yes they warranty them but unless you buy a back up (which i have) it takes 2-3 weeks to get it back. Also the pumps that come with them are garbage if anyone is still using them upgrade to maxi-pumps before they fail on you in the middle of the night and drown your plants. But if you lik f*cking with stuff and constantly fixing problems this is the system for you lol


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 20, 2012)

Number one thing to look at when having huge ph swing! Are water temp, then check your roots for brown slime
Or root rot!, bad bactiria causes ph to rise in large swings. You can look into using h202 or bleach, zone, sm90!
Or zyme products, All of these will help but its just a bandaid. Brew bennys in compost teas is in my opion the 
best option! I used to have these ph issue but not anymore, with tea i can set it at 5.6 and not have to adjust for
4 to 5 days when it gets to 6.0. Having a small amount of swing is important to plants, it allows them to uptake
Different things it need at different times.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 20, 2012)

jakeman311 said:


> These things are poorly engineered piece of sh*t. Im on my 6th run in a particular room right now this P.O.S. and Im already regretting setting this disaster waiting to happen up. Ive tinkered, toyed, experimented and ran tests on every freaking thing you can do and add with this system and every time it is a high maintenance piece of shit. I been through 3 controller buckets because they keep failing. Yes they warranty them but unless you buy a back up (which i have) it takes 2-3 weeks to get it back. Also the pumps that come with them are garbage if anyone is still using them upgrade to maxi-pumps before they fail on you in the middle of the night and drown your plants. But if you lik f*cking with stuff and constantly fixing problems this is the system for you lol


Wow bro seem you had a bad streak with these systems, me and alot of others kill it in it! And as for labour
Lol i spent 15 min. A day doing a check on stuff then roll out! And ive got x3 ebbs starting from the very
First version! But i sounds like its not for you!


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## jakeman311 (Jan 20, 2012)

ha ha Ive got a 1/10hp water chiller on my res keeping it a steady 68 degrees, I use brand new hydroton every time. I change all the fitting and hose and wash every bucket and insert by hand inside and out in between every run. Nutrient change outs every 7 days on the dot and I run hygrozyme (which is a huge rip off), zone, H2O2 constantly. All the buckets are raised up because of the poor design of this thing that lets the roots fester in about 2 inches of water at the bottom of the bucket in between floods. But still every time these piece of crap get root rot about halfway though flower and pretty much stops the vigor of the plant dead in it tracks and I only end up averaging about 1- 1 1/4 per light depending on the strain. The only preventative measure I dodnt take this time was putting air stones on the bottom of every bucket which is a huge pain in the ass as well because the roots get so dense that when they fill up with water there no where for the air bubbles to go so all the water dribbles out of the bucket onto the floor in between the inner and outer bucket.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 20, 2012)

I converted all my floor lines to pvc thats white 100% better due to it not absorbing heat from the lights also use pluming 
Foam that in tubes to run my lines through! This help so much with inline water temps, i did a test and installed a temp
Gauge in the end line feeding the last bucket and the temp was 10f higher than my res temp that was controled by my 
Chiller. By covering the lines took care of this issue. The root rot issue is the same with cap is it is with titans, or green
Leaves systems!


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## jakeman311 (Jan 20, 2012)

Yeah that sounds about right and good thinking on tubes. But that what Im saying you have to go through all this other BS to fix a overpriced system that should have been engineered correctly in the first place. The Titan Flo and Gro is supposed to be a re-engineered upgrade to the cap and green leaves system (THEY SAID THEY SPENT 4 YEARS DEVELOPING IT) but it has it flaws as well and still leaves water in the bottom. As for the Green Leaves that one is the biggest piece of crap I just sold my used systems with 78 pots 2 controller buckets and 2 55 gal res for a hundred bucks i was so sick of those P.O.S.'s lol. ALso I want to point out for any one and I MEAN ANYONE EVERY THINKING FOR USING "SURE TO GROW" INSERTS IN YOUR SYSTEM I WILL SAVE YOU THE TROUBLE. JUST GIVE ME A CALL AND HAND ME A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS YOU WOULD HAVE PAID FOR THEM AND ILL TAKE AWAY ALL YOUR PLANTS AND PUNCH YOU IN THE STOMACH AND SAVE YOU THE TIME OF ACTUALLY GOING THOUGH SETTING UP YOUR GARDEN ONLY YO HAVE THE SAME RESULTS LOL!!! SERIOUS EVEN THE REPS TO THE WHOLESALERS THAT SELL THAT BRAND CALL THEM "SURE TO KILL". THEY ARE SHAT.


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## Refusedpanda (Jan 20, 2012)

LOL at "Sure To Kill" Interesting to hear your POV on the green trees system. It does seem to be a bit better with the bigger lines and control bucket. 

Oh for people looking for liners in the CAP system, the Square Root 1 gallon pots fit really well in the buckets. I tried the smart pot brand but they were to short, these ones are tall and have a little sticking out above the pots. I am getting sick of the roots growing into the lines and what not.


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## jakeman311 (Jan 21, 2012)

The green trees just hold the most amount of water in the bottom and thats the killer.. once the roots are big enough and grow down in to the standing water they end up using all the dissolved oxygen in a short amount of time and the temps of the water rise too the water becomes stagnate and the roots begin to rot in between their floods little by little everyday. 
A fully draining bucket system would just be so much better. I believe Sentinel came out with one that is supposed to do that and its the only one I havent ran yet.


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## berrykid (Jan 21, 2012)

wass up ebb and growers hey im getting tired of hydroton i wanted to switch to grow cubes would it be a good idea
http://www.monstergardens.com/growing-media/rockwool.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-vmshopgreen.tpl&product_id=432&category_id=128


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2012)

jakeman311 said:


> The green trees just hold the most amount of water in the bottom and thats the killer.. once the roots are big enough and grow down in to the standing water they end up using all the dissolved oxygen in a short amount of time and the temps of the water rise too the water becomes stagnate and the roots begin to rot in between their floods little by little everyday.
> A fully draining bucket system would just be so much better. I believe Sentinel came out with one that is supposed to do that and its the only one I havent ran yet.


the sentinal is the same shit theres no difference! no system is perfect! but with a bit of diy you can kill it with the cap just check out my
thread links in my sig


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## jakeman311 (Jan 21, 2012)

Have you seen the setinal version.. I believe its called the MEF-1. Same concept they are all plumbed together buckets off a common reservoir with a controller bucket and all but they are designed a little different and fill and draw water from the bottom middle of the bucket and are raised above the lower water line in the fill bucket. I actually already went though a pretty good portion of your Grows it does seem like you have pretty good success with these systems.. what are averaging as far as grams per watt?


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2012)

By raizing each bucket 2 in. It does the same as the sentinal with raised buckets! Draining from the bottom or the side
If the buckets are raised it dont matter!


I pm you jake


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2012)

By raizing each bucket 2 in. It does the same as the sentinal with raised buckets! Draining from the bottom or the side
If the buckets are raised it dont matter!


I pm you jake


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## jakeman311 (Jan 21, 2012)

Agreed and its def a must with these systems!


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## Osburn (Jan 21, 2012)

jakeman311 said:


> Agreed and its def a must with these systems!


It's definitely not a must for these systems. I've been running a stock monster system with great success and have been getting healthier roots than I ever got with DWC. I actually like how my monster system turns into a quasi-DWC system after the roots go down into that "stagnant" water. That's when the plants really blow up. At that point, they get a half-hour of flood for every two hours the lights are on. And they get fifteen minutes of flood halfway into the dark period just to move the water around a little bit. No root rot whatsoever.


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## Wolfhound (Jan 23, 2012)

If your buckets are raised 2 inches , you would lose that much water each fill. It will still only fill to the stop level float in the controller, which will then be 2 inches lower than the top of your buckets, how are you guys addressing this issue ? I run the Titan . . .


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

This issue really aint a issue plants dont miss a beat!

The flood line in a non raised bucket is to high to begin.
Look at a ebb/flow flood table if you use buckets theres
Alot thats above the flood line. So by raising is simply
The same, and if you use growdan it will wick anyways,
But still works great with tron aswell


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## mrlinder151 (Feb 6, 2012)

the inside of my controller module got wet when the top float failed.....now the fill pump outlet doesnt work at all and the drain pump stays on constantly....is there anybody who knows how to repair or replace the circuit board in there??


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 6, 2012)

berrykid said:


> wass up ebb and growers hey im getting tired of hydroton i wanted to switch to grow cubes would it be a good idea
> http://www.monstergardens.com/growing-media/rockwool.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-vmshopgreen.tpl&product_id=432&category_id=128


I really like growdan grow chunks flood less and no cleaning


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## hornedfrog2000 (Feb 6, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I really like growdan grow chunks flood less and no cleaning


Yeah man. I'm about done with hydroton. I'm going to run it one more time, but I'm just tired of the mess. I'm looking for more efficient, and easier maintenance. If I can just throw it away at the end I'm gonna be a lot happier.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm about to put this system to the test. I've been running my moms in it for a while but now its time for an actual grow. What sort of yields are possible with a medium yielding plant under a 600 with this? I know that's a vague question, just looking for what some people are pulling. I want 3+, but not sure I'm gonna get that.


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## youngtrader9689 (Feb 11, 2012)

gram a watt 
easy


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## Refusedpanda (Feb 13, 2012)

Yo Yo

Round two with this system and its kickin ass. These ladies just went 12/12 last night.

6 Blue Dream, 600w in an Ocho

View attachment 2056126View attachment 2056127View attachment 2056128


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## hornedfrog2000 (Feb 13, 2012)

what is an ocho?


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## Refusedpanda (Feb 13, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> what is an ocho?


Magnum XXXL 8 inch - they call it the Ocho


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## 2wheels (Feb 18, 2012)

C.A.P. just released one called The Massive that is sweeeet. Its solid and not quite as thick in case your lacking in height availability.


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## nuglets (Mar 16, 2012)

just wanted to let you guys know i got my grow journal back up and running. come check it out. ebb & grow baby!!


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## Dr. Wombat (Mar 31, 2012)

Just came back from first trip leaving e&g unattended for 2 weeks on home made ph automation. 

Success!

Highly recommend Milwaukee instruments sm122 controller. 

Anyone automate nutrient supply?


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 31, 2012)

No never have, can you post some pics of the unit?


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## phillipchristian (Mar 31, 2012)

I've seen them before but what nutrient feeding system are you using? Were there any issues with compatability? I've looked into Argus and Easy eed systems but they have their limitations in my book. The Argus is SUPER expensive and the easy feed doesn't seem reliable. Plus when you start adding a number of different nutes at different stages those systems get super expensive and a little unreliable in my opinion. If anything I would get the Argus once I sold a kidney or something.


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## hickerbilly (Apr 9, 2012)

pluto420 said:


> *I have been trying to find a good thread about the cap e & g system but haven't been able to find one yet so thought I would start this and see if I can get a good discussion going and compile a good overall document on the system.
> 
> If you are using the cap e & g system please give your feedback to the following questions and feel free to add anything else of interest you can think of.* *
> 
> ...


Howdy... I got my CAP Ebb and Grow 55-gallon system roughly 2-months ago. I love it and hate it at the same time! I love the way my girls are growing but hate the constant chasing of leaks!!! The latest was the return line coming loose in the controller bucket (and yes, I tried the funky hose clamps that came with it... what a joke) and my floor was flooded with the new nutes I just put in last night. 
I started with 12/2-gallon buckets and have since added 6/3-gallon buckets and currently using hydroton... I tried STG with my old ebb and grow system but... the dang roots hated it... rotton roots and mass algae from all the water it holds. 
I really dig the 3-gallon set-ups especially with the cool lids with a built in cup for the hydroton rather than filling a whole bucket with hydroton, like in the 2-gallon set-ups... it leaves mass more room for the roots to grow but... it definitely takes more water. I am currently adding about 10-gallons to the reservoir since the plants are drinking a good 5-gallons a day.
I am using technaflora'a recipe for success and have been for 2-years in soil, and in my various hydro set-ups since starting... I am also adding liquid budswell during the flower cycle. I am currently running 2/1000w HPS lights with 4/4-foot T5 230w fluorescent bulbs mixing full-spectrum's with reds (4-bulbs per unit... 2 full spectrum and 2 reds for flowering) I have one placed on each side of the HPS lights in a 8'x14' room that I lined with Prodex insulation on the walls, ceiling, and floor that work awesome for radiant reflection.
I made a pretty cool discovery from one of my leaking buckets... the dang grommet just wouldn't seal so... I pulled the grommet out, stuck a cork in the hole, ran an airline with a airstone into the bucket, and filled it full of nute water... it is passing up the regular ebb and grow buckets.
I'm thinking of ending my endless leak problem (3-days is my record for no leaks) and just getting a good compressor and to copy what I did with the bucket I corked, and scrap the ebb and grow. 
I'm losing a lot of money in nutes every time the dang system leaks... so far... no trouble with the floats and controller but after the first 3-weeks I had to replace one of the pumps. I also have 11 plants in soil and the difference between those and the ebb and grow are like night and day... ebb and grow plants are 3x's the size of the one's in soil after 2-months.
I currently do a complete nute change in 10-12 days.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2012)

Dude i have been runing cap systems sinse the first hit the market and have zero leaks!
You got to be doing somthing rong with it to have that many leaks


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## drgreentm (Apr 9, 2012)

Agreed I just had my system sitting in a dusty ass storage unit for about 3 months, pulled it out cleaned it and it still works without a leak. The lower pots can be pretty fragile and have to have the seals and barbed fittings in there right or you can crack the buckets.


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## menaice (Apr 25, 2012)

New guy here, been registered but haven't posted alot, done a few successful soil grows. Seems like you guys have alot of experience with this ebb and flow setup. I have been wanting to switch to hydro, I would do the 12 pot setup. My first question is do you need to fill the res all the way for 12 pots? Also have any of you guys looked into the Big Boy Hydro setup? 
http://htgsupply.com/Product-Big-Boy-Hydroponic-System.asp

How do you think the big boy would stack up against the CAP ebb and gro?


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## enotee (Apr 25, 2012)

I know its probably been chewed up and spit out a few times but i can't seem to find the answer: "What is the ideal tempature range for the res". Thank you.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 25, 2012)

@ menaice i would pass on both and go strait to the titan system.
As for just running 12 you could run half full no problem.

@ enotee best res temp in my exp is 64f to 66f


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## phillipchristian (Apr 25, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> @ menaice i would pass on both and go strait to the titan system.
> As for just running 12 you could run half full no problem.
> 
> @ enotee best res temp in my exp is 64f to 66f


This man speaks the truth! 


Or you could try the new Sentinel system and be our guinea pig? Please? kiss-ass


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## justabegginner (Apr 29, 2012)

hi morris ive got a question about this ebb and flow i was reading online that these systems the pumps tend to fail and flood your room have you ever heard of this happening or experienced it also i read that they don't drain completely and cause issues with build up and last you said you purchased one plantlighting do you live in canada reason i ask is i do and wondered if they ship their


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## phxrocks (Apr 29, 2012)

menaice said:


> New guy here, been registered but haven't posted alot, done a few successful soil grows. Seems like you guys have alot of experience with this ebb and flow setup. I have been wanting to switch to hydro, I would do the 12 pot setup. My first question is do you need to fill the res all the way for 12 pots? Also have any of you guys looked into the Big Boy Hydro setup?
> http://htgsupply.com/Product-Big-Boy-Hydroponic-System.asp
> 
> How do you think the big boy would stack up against the CAP ebb and gro?


I have 2 18 site Big boy systems with 6 x 1000 watts in a 12 x 16 sealed room. We just made a 3rd system ourselves, and it is identical to the Big Boy. The only item I purchased used was the 55 gal res ($15). Altogether, $220. The 18 site big boy is over $500. It´s a very simple system and you can purchase all the materials at your local hydro shop. 
For 12 pots, I would only use 4 feeding lines and plug the other 2. 40 gallons is plenty to feed 12 3 gallon pots. You will need a full 55 gallons if you expand.
Make sure the float is adjusted properly, and your feed and drain timers should be synced with a digital timers. 
When flushing, I use a wet dry vac and suck the water out of the lines and buckets from inside the control bucket. This technique will leave the whole system completley dry before filling the res again, and it only takes 5 to 10 minutes.
I just fell in love with coco fiber in smart pots. I had 5 plants on a 2 x 4 flood table and the plants love it.
I only wish I could figure out how to drop a 3 gallon smart pot in the ebb and grow pots without replacing all the buckets,,,,


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## enotee (May 31, 2012)

I have a few questions. Fisrt qestions is will Floralicious Plus and FloraBlend leave nasty residue in my Titan Flo-N-Grow res. Second is Dutch Master Zone and G.H. FloraSheild the same product do i need both?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 1, 2012)

enotee said:


> I have a few questions. Fisrt qestions is will Floralicious Plus and FloraBlend leave nasty residue in my Titan Flo-N-Grow res. Second is Dutch Master Zone and G.H. FloraSheild the same product do i need both?


When it comes to gh floralicious plus and blend you will see the same in dirtyness as you would in nova! My opion is
to stick with a more cleaner nute line. Technoflora is a good one super clean.


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## enotee (Jun 3, 2012)

I have a new space to work with an 8x8 room and four 600w lights I was wondering how many ebb and grow buckets would fit comfortably with a month of veg time?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 3, 2012)

enotee said:


> I have a new space to work with an 8x8 room and four 600w lights I was wondering how many ebb and grow buckets would fit comfortably with a month of veg time?


A 12 site would fit, just make sure you lollie pop it good to allow good air movment, plus it will get the plant to direct its
production to the top of the plant. 4weeks with a strain thats a stretchy one will be no good  so make sure what your 
growing isnt a stretch monster!


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## teeo9111 (Jun 9, 2012)

Hey fellow growers,
I just finished reading this entire thread and garnered a ton of info. I have the CAP Ebb and Flow Monster system and am in my sixth week of flower. It is my first grow in this system and I love it. I have had zero overflows,leaks or controller problems. I have either been lucky or maybe CAP has fixed some of the issues,not sure which. I have run the system as built for the most part. I will summarize the few things I did outside of CAP's recommendations in addition to how and what I am growing.

I put metal hose clamps on ALL hose connections.

I had a small bucket of hot water at my side while installing grommets and hoses and dipped each grommet and hose end prior to installing grommets on buckets and hose ends onto hose barb elbows,tee's etc.,it made installation a piece of cake. I did in fact have two grommets leak ever so slightly for a day and then they stopped leaking and haven't lost a drop since.

I have an eight inch disk air stone in my reservoir powered by a 20 amp air pump.

I took 1-1/2 inch PVC cut into 2 inch pieces and through them in each outer bucket before installing the inner bucket. This raises the inner bucket so theoretically roots aren't sitting in water 24/7. This recommendation came from a video I saw that was made by the STG guys. I don't think this is as big of an issue as has been discussed because the water isn't stagnant because it gets changed every time you have a fill cycle. I have never once lifted the buckets up so I have no idea whether or not roots are going into the lines or not. The reason I went with the Monster setup was my "consultant" who runs three 60 site E&G systems told me that the smaller buckets are too small and if I ran them I would occasionally have roots clogging the lines,not because of the size of the buckets necessarily but because of the 1/2 inch lines.

I grew my plants from seed in 4 inch rockwool cubes and put them in the E&G system when they were about 4 inches tall.I am using rockwool croutons as a medium and I intend to keep using them,they have worked flawlessly and I like the idea of tossing them when done instead of cleaning hydroton. I bought a huge box of them at my grow shop for 90 bucks and didn't even use half the box for six five gallon buckets,one plant turned out to be a hermie so it was sacrificed obviously.

Run 4 fill cycles for 15 minutes daytime only,so every three hours during flower and every six during veg.

I am running a modified regimen of Advanced Nutrients Grand Master line minus the bennys because I am running sterile with H2O2 and also CalMag. I will post my exact nutrient mixtures if anyone wants to see it,it was written out for me by a commercial grower and growing consultant with many years of experience.

I keep my PPM's at 1000 and my PH at 5.8 or thereabouts. I was having to bring the PH down every couple days. I was told it was from the H2O2 usage,it raises PH. I am now running the AN PH Perfect base nutrients it buffers it right within 5.6-5.8 and have not had to PH down since,pretty amazing stuff.

I am running 2X 1000W HPS on five monster plants,they are Moby Dick by DinaFem and can't wait to see the yield,not the best way to maximize my light usage I know,but it was just something that happened to go this way. I am vegging on a table twelve Juicy Chronic to go in the E&G system once I chop these giants.

I keep my reservoir chilled to 62-69 degrees,this is absolutely critical in my opinion. If I couldn't chill my water I wouldn't bother growing as it invites too many problems and I don't like problems. My chiller was sitting in my grow room before I purchased my lights. I know many successful growers that grow with water temps outside of these parameters and I can honestly say every single one of them has had issues that I have never had even once so far.

Flush with Clearex every two weeks with 2 gallons by hand per bucket from the top to waste and then with plain water,also from the top. Refill res with nutes and I am done. I have had no lockout issues and my plants look spectacular.

Due to circumstances beyond my control I had to veg for much longer than I normally would,about six weeks,I am at week six of lower and my plants are seven foot monsters.

I will post anything else that I might have missed but right now I need to go check up on my ladies.


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## sdgrower (Jun 9, 2012)

good info teeo. my only question is why do you water so often with the rockwool cubes? I only ask because I have found that in rockwool the magic happens if you let it dry out a little. I am in 4 gallon greentree pots filled with rockwool cubes and I only water 1x per day and that is after week 3.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 9, 2012)

@teeo lets see some pics


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## teeo9111 (Jun 10, 2012)

sdgrower said:


> good info teeo. my only question is why do you water so often with the rockwool cubes? I only ask because I have found that in rockwool the magic happens if you let it dry out a little. I am in 4 gallon greentree pots filled with rockwool cubes and I only water 1x per day and that is after week 3.


Honestly,I water that often because that is what most people do but I do understand that most people aren't using rockwool croutons. I don't know if I would go to once per day though. I would love to hear what other people think or do.


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## teeo9111 (Jun 10, 2012)

I would love to post pics but when I try to take pics the HPS lights screw up my shots,what's the secret to getting good shots of my girls without the lines of interference from the HPS lights???


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## HomeLessBeans (Jun 10, 2012)

Shoot with the lights out. Cell phones are the worse for lines. 

Which type of rockwool cubes?


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## teeo9111 (Jun 10, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> Shoot with the lights out. Cell phones are the worse for lines.
> 
> Which type of rockwool cubes?


Rockwool croutons,the tiny half inch ones.

Thanks for the tip on taking pics,I'll try it out tonight.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jun 10, 2012)

The large RW comes in several varieties with different water retention rates. And I wondered if the small ones did also.


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## teeo9111 (Jun 10, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> The large RW comes in several varieties with different water retention rates. And I wondered if the small ones did also.


I wasn't aware that rockwool came in different water retention rates and I have been growing in rockwool for 30 years. I learn something new every day. Thanks for that info.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jun 10, 2012)

One is Delta, the other I can't dig out yet


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## teeo9111 (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm no photographer but here you go. Moby Dick by Dinafem,they are 7-1/2 feet tall,the stalks are 2-1/2" in diameter.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 17, 2012)

Thats a stalk lol

Over 7ft tall wow what a monster


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## DREAMQUEEN (Jun 20, 2012)

Ok we are just staring out with this ebb and grow system. Our first hydro run. My question is when filling the reservoirs and adding nuits how do we make sure the nuits are evenly dispersed through the pickle barrel before the feeding cycle begins? Any feedback would be great!!


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 20, 2012)

Use a cycle pump to mix up your nutes, this pump isnt sold with the kit its extra, also get a couple aire stones.
put these on a timer to come on every hour for 15min this will keep stuff nice and mixed


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## teeo9111 (Jun 21, 2012)

I stir it up with a canoe paddle. I also have a 6 or 8 inch disk airstone in the bottom running 24/7,the more oxygen the better in my opinion. Make sure you keep the water in your res less than 70f.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jun 21, 2012)

Air stones. Putting the pump someplace cool helps with cooling the Rez.


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## teeo9111 (Jul 2, 2012)

Main cola from my 8 ft. Moby Dick....


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 2, 2012)

teeo9111 said:


> MView attachment 2237022ain cola from my 8 ft. Moby Dick....


Very nice teo


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## main (Jul 9, 2012)

Hi everyone!

Great/very useful thread
I'm currently on page ~ 200 and in week 6-7 of own my test grow in self made ebb&grow set
I'm running into severe problems which I thought was magnesium deficiency
Have anyone experienced anything similar to this?
(Hopefully picture are clear enough)



grow rate is visibly slowed in the last week
actually I'm afraid that I'm beyond the damage repair point as you can see at the second photo 


Canna Aqua 
Hydroton
Ph 5.8 (stable)
EC is about 1.8 atm (flashed with florakleen about week ago and supplemented extra magnesium which didn't helped)
EC is rising slowly (about 0.5-1 per day)

Any suggestions/ideas will be appreciated

peace


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## HomeLessBeans (Jul 9, 2012)

1.8 seems a little hot. Are u using RO water. If so u prob did not need the mag. Let ur ph come up a bit 6.2 - 6.5 those are still saveable 

Grab some drip clean from house n garden and do a flush. Start back easy on the nutez.


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## main (Jul 10, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> 1.8 seems a little hot. Are u using RO water. If so u prob did not need the mag. Let ur ph come up a bit 6.2 - 6.5 those are still saveable
> 
> Grab some drip clean from house n garden and do a flush. Start back easy on the nutez.


thanx for the reply HomeLessBeans.

no RO just tap water which is pretty hard where I live - 0.50 - 0.55.
AFAIK Canna Aqua is not made for RO water.
I'm topping rez with plain water for the last 3 days to keep in under 1.8
Why drip clean instead of Florakleen?
And what is the point of letting PH go that high (6.2-6.5)? I always thought that 5,8 is optimal for hydro.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jul 10, 2012)

last first. Plants up-take nutes at different PH levels.. think like a buffet on an elevator. yum turkey at 5.3..ohhhh steak at 6.0.. thats PH drift in a nut shell

Drip clean is the most outstanding cleaner on the market. I think even big Mike from advanced admitted that.

yeah drain your rez and do a flush when this type of thing happens.. I would use strait water and drip clean,PH'd of course probaly a day or two. drain and start over I'm running GH at about 1.4 Different nutes can run at different ppm's same with plants some are more sensitive than others. My NL#5 and Ionic nutes 2.0 no prob

real water with app nutes need no cal/mg IME.. 

and you are welcome
beans


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## teeo9111 (Jul 11, 2012)

Looks like big time lockout causing at least a N deficiency to me. You did not say if you did a weekly flush during your grow or not,this is crucial. I flush by hand each bucket with about 2 gallons of clearex mixture pouring over the top. You can use the system to do the flush but if you think about it after the first cycle you are just send the same shit back up to the plants. After pouring the clearex solution I follow with a good dousing of straight water. If you are going to run your nutes that hot you better flush every week to 10 days religiously. I have to disagree with the calmag statement,I run calmag as soon as I start feeding nutes all the way to finish. I also ALWAYS throw in a half strength mixture of calmag into my clearex solution,this was recommended to me by a large commercial grower that I highly respect. He told me stripping the roots entirely with a flushing solution is not good for the plants except for the final pre-harvest flush. Just my 2 cents but I have had ridiculous success following this regimen.


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## main (Jul 15, 2012)

teeo9111 said:


> Looks like big time lockout causing at least a N deficiency to me. You did not say if you did a weekly flush during your grow or not,this is crucial. I flush by hand each bucket with about 2 gallons of clearex mixture pouring over the top. You can use the system to do the flush but if you think about it after the first cycle you are just send the same shit back up to the plants. After pouring the clearex solution I follow with a good dousing of straight water. If you are going to run your nutes that hot you better flush every week to 10 days religiously. I have to disagree with the calmag statement,I run calmag as soon as I start feeding nutes all the way to finish. I also ALWAYS throw in a half strength mixture of calmag into my clearex solution,this was recommended to me by a large commercial grower that I highly respect. He told me stripping the roots entirely with a flushing solution is not good for the plants except for the final pre-harvest flush. Just my 2 cents but I have had ridiculous success following this regimen.


thanks for your response
I did flush during grow . Not weekly but within 10 days period.
Up until 4 weeks ago when it was like 2 weeks between.
I guess you right about lockout. I went too high on nutes from the start due at first to defect ec tester.
But they recovered nicely at the time.
I've done 2 days flushing( with calmag shot - thx for the tip) and they are on a 1.4 EC / Ph 5.8 now for 2 days. 
Everything is stable though if they will not show some improvement this week I gonna chop them.
Bit shame really but I consider this to be a test run of self made system it's ok.
Looked how things are working together / learned few things.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 15, 2012)

Those are way not ready to chop! Will be better to just let them go


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## givememeganja (Jul 24, 2012)

bought the cap ebb monster haven't fired it up yet waiting for it to cool down.. is there still problems with the these models or did they work out the kinks?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 24, 2012)

givememeganja said:


> bought the cap ebb monster haven't fired it up yet waiting for it to cool down.. is there still problems with the these models or did they work out the kinks?


Only issues lie in the control box


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## GreenDyl (Jul 28, 2012)

Hey I just got the 12 pot system, Is there anything I should know about running Flora Nova grow/bloom in this system with all the additives? or is it just not smart to use the additives like diamond nectar? I have 2 airstones in my 55 gal. Just wondering what people recomendations on the best nutes for this system are. Also thinking about House and garden aqua flakes


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## GreenDyl (Jul 28, 2012)

Oh yeah Ill be using just dechlorinated water


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 28, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Hey I just got the 12 pot system, Is there anything I should know about running Flora Nova grow/bloom in this system with all the additives? or is it just not smart to use the additives like diamond nectar? I have 2 airstones in my 55 gal. Just wondering what people recomendations on the best nutes for this system are. Also thinking about House and garden aqua flakes


I find technofloras bc line is the cleanest and easyest to use in it! Must be why you get a starter pack with the purchase
of the unit.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jul 29, 2012)

Watch your barrel and control pot for salts and residue. I reccomend drip clean from H&G no matter which nute you use. I've used both of the mentioned brands. First time try to go light with the additives. That's where the nute companies make their coin.

Come on in the water is fine!!! 

Beans


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## GreenDyl (Jul 29, 2012)

Yeah I know what you are sayin, Would like to try a bloom booster and a hardener this time around you know? Any suggestions on them? I think I am gonna go with flora nova bloom because that is basically the same thing as the lucas formula or whatever. With drip clean do you use it every time you change the res?


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## HomeLessBeans (Jul 29, 2012)

Bbbbbiiiiiiigg fan of Lucas. I've used Koolbloom, bloombastic, shooting powder. All are dangerous so use very sparingly. I heard  even bigmike from advanced admitted S. Powder was better than his. At that time.

Drip clean anytime I add water. I flush with it. 

Good genetics. Good nutes. And you really do not need all of the snake oil.IMHO


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## GreenDyl (Jul 29, 2012)

I think Im gonna go with just flora nova bloom for my base, some rapid root for rooting, Still deciding on a bloom booster but probably gonna use like shooting powder and bud xl, then thinking about using gravity for a hardener. Any thoughts on this?


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## HomeLessBeans (Jul 29, 2012)

you do not want to mix anything with the shooting powder.this shit will kill your room!!!!

.and even with the newer papers out on gravity I would not use it. or any 'hardener'


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 29, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Yeah I know what you are sayin, Would like to try a bloom booster and a hardener this time around you know? Any suggestions on them? I think I am gonna go with flora nova bloom because that is basically the same thing as the lucas formula or whatever. With drip clean do you use it every time you change the res?


Try moab........


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## GreenDyl (Jul 29, 2012)

fasho fasho... Really Im just trying to pull 2 lbs off 12 plants in a 4x8 tent with a 12 site ebb and grow. Maybe I should just use flora nova bloom?


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## GreenDyl (Jul 29, 2012)

Oh yeah 2x 600w hps


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## HomeLessBeans (Jul 29, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> fasho fasho... Really Im just trying to pull 2 lbs off 12 plants in a 4x8 tent with a 12 site ebb and grow. Maybe I should just use flora nova bloom?


just try for the best 12 plants you can get in a 4x8..and yes keep it simple the first run or two.. 2 lb 12 pots x 1200 watts = .75 gpw not impossible without fancy smancy additives


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## doogleef (Jul 29, 2012)

I used flora nova bloom (Lucas formula) in an ebb and gro for several cycles and eventually abandoned it because it was too low in Nitrogen to keep the lower leaves from dying out late in bloom. I had very good results running a 50/50 floranove bloom and grow mix and also did well with the new GH 2 part GO stuff.


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## GreenDyl (Jul 29, 2012)

Are you talkin about the General organics stuff? I really wanted to try that stuff out cause that lineup seems real legit, I just don't think the additives would do to hot in a hydro rez with airstones. Anyone have experience with scrogging ebb and grow? I just wonder how you can check your roots out if theres a screen above it holding it down.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jul 29, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Are you talkin about the General organics stuff? I really wanted to try that stuff out cause that lineup seems real legit, I just don't think the additives would do to hot in a hydro rez with airstones. Anyone have experience with scrogging ebb and grow? I just wonder how you can check your roots out if theres a screen above it holding it down.


dude 12 pots is 4x8 is gonna pack full ya ain't gonna need a net. not a lot of root to check so why bother pullin pots...pullin pots apart sux ballz btw


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## doogleef (Jul 29, 2012)

http://generalhydroponics.com/site/index.php/products/nutrients/floraduo/ I was talking about these actually. The DUO. You are right that the GO line has organic additives taht would not be happy in an aerated environment. Organic hydro in general is just a stinky mess in my experience. 

SCROG is not something I would do with these systems for the reasons you are already thinking about. It locks your plants in place and the cool thing about the ebb/grow is the ability to modify as you go.


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## Knott Collective (Jul 29, 2012)

I've had lots of luck with House & Garden based program. I also add Nitrogen Boost and Dutch Master Zone. Nitrogen Boost really helps growth and vigor in veg but must be used sparingly, as directed on the H&G online nutrient calculator - http://www.house-garden.us/nutrient-calculator/. The Zone uses an extremely small amount of an algicide, germicide and fungicide so it cannot be used with beneficial microbes - kills 'em right off. But it keeps the slime away! 

Here's the complete schedule:


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## GreenDyl (Jul 29, 2012)

I just wanna do a scrog so its a nice even canopy of buds. I think I figured out what nutes im gonna end up using. This dude over on a diff local forum has the same exact setup as I do and pulled 42oz off 12 plants under 1200w. Just gonna use the same nutes he did because his results were awesome.


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## sinistral (Aug 12, 2012)

Does anyone else get slightly slimy roots in the bottom of their system due to the RETARDED sitting water that is left in each bucket? I do not recommend CAP's system if you have a very dense forest of plants. I have been using it for almost a year now, and would occasionally have issues with my roots. This latest time one of my pumps broke so I have the plants sitting in standing water for a few hours before I took notice. I started to notice leaves turning yellow at the bottom of all my plants. So I took 7 hours straight of removing very large plants from their buckets, and emptying and cleaning out the base buckets to help prevent root rot. The buckets get this disgusting build up of nutrients, hydroton, and slime in the base bucket. It was a BRUTAL project, and the plants took a beating in the process. I'm currently flushing with pure water and H2O2 for the rest of it's light schedule today. I'm also worried I was watering too much, so I turned that down to 15 min every 3-4 hours.

Anyone have a better system recommended for dense forest type cannopy where getting to the center plants wouldn't be necessary until harvest?


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## HomeLessBeans (Aug 12, 2012)

titian is a better system.. use drip clean from house & garden for build-up. 15 minutes 4 times in 24 hour is plenty..

i use bleach as apposed to H2O2


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## doogleef (Aug 12, 2012)

elevate each pot just an inch or two to avoid the standing water. I used to use regular saucers from my soil pots to raise them just a bit.


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## Alcofree (Aug 18, 2012)

blueybong said:


> Morris ~ I'll be starting my next plants by seeds and once they have a decent root system, I'll be transferring them into the E&G.
> 
> Q: how low does the plant sit inside the inner bucket?
> 
> ...


I have always used an 18 site cloning bucket (with the foam inserts) in order to clone to soil. After reading all of the issues regarding transplanting/using rock-wool, I would think that the cloning bucket would work real slick. After 1.5 weeks in the bucket I have roots that are 4" long. I am assuming that i just make some room in the hydroton/two-gallon pots for the clones and they should take off!!! Does anyone have a review/feedback regarding this process?


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 18, 2012)

You can go right to the hydroton from the cloner. I did it many times. But it gets trick judging the time. Thats why I now clone get roots going about 2 inches put them in 4 inch cubes of rock wool. Use 1 inch cubes ripped up to fill around the hole not beating the roots. Veg like that till system is ready for the new plants. Then add the cubes to the buckets and cover the RW the best I can. Then when plant gets bigger cover it fully. And if you can do this befor roots go out the bottom of the 4" RW you won't realy see transplant shock. Hydroton kills alot of roots no matter how careful you are.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 18, 2012)

Warlock is 100% right and is why i switch out of rock all together


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 18, 2012)

Well there is going to be a shortage soon anyways. But other places are working on different clays. I just switched to 20%coco. Like it do far but it's only been a week. And I hated sure to grow. Used that ones and never agin.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 18, 2012)

Canna coco or botanicair ready grow are the shit!


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 18, 2012)

Trying out gold lable. Has a ton of micro nutes in it. So I can run lower ppm in the res. Well thats the idea anyways. Also like how stable the plants are now. They don't wanna fall over like hydroton.


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## Alcofree (Aug 19, 2012)

What about replacing the foam inserts with RW then going straight to Hydro-medium? Sounds like this may be easier???


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## Alcofree (Aug 19, 2012)

I have used 50/50 Coco-Fox Farms ocean mix (with great results) in soil however it seems like that would be difficult (as compared to Hydroton) in an Ebb&Flow system. I understand that Hydroton is quite dirty and folks can get residual clay in the rez and such; but I would think COCO would fall down through the holes in the pots and foul/plug everything up (tubes, controller box etc...)


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## HomeLessBeans (Aug 19, 2012)

hydroton is only a problem if it is not rinsed well.. as far as other mediums? try using a smart pot in the inner pot. i would also water less frequently.


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 19, 2012)

I well there is another problem with hydroton. The big supplier went belly up. The quality went down leaving alot of salts and unwanted stuff in it. This have voided problems for many grows. Think my last one fell to this. And I wash them for 48 hours. There are others that make clay rounds and rocks but there price is more then I want to pay. It will cost me over 200 just to fill the pots in flower.

Net pots work great to keep coco and other soilless in the pots and not the res. I'm using the Titan system an they make a bag just for that. Waterin times droped to twice a day unless plants start taking up more. And I wouldn't use a soil mix in any of the ebb and flow systems. No way to regulate nutes and watering times would be every 3-4 days. So you would have to turn it on and off yourself.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 19, 2012)

I read the guy mining the hydrotron retired but wasnt 100% sure but now it makes sense


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm sure there are other reasons. Nobody shuts down for some salts. They fix the problem. So maybe he retired and how he left it to run it to the ground and sold everything off. It happens all the time. And it's to bad. Good product and can you think of all the people in Germany now out of work. Like they didn't have it hard enough. And now that they left it's going to be the comps that want a buck a litter. Guess what there price won't go down. And with useing 200L every 6 weeks I gotta change


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## HomeLessBeans (Aug 19, 2012)

I reuse as much as I can. And the grow store had a very similar product that was a little bit less. Looked exactly the same.

With your coco in the titian? Do you feel that you still get a degassing of the rootmass?


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 20, 2012)

Only been using it a week so can't give good info yet.


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 20, 2012)

Side by side i have seen zero plus to the tron over other mediums! Thats why im sticking with
growdan, and waiting to get those inner sleeves to allow me to use the cana coco


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## HomeLessBeans (Aug 20, 2012)

Only side bys I really ever did where slabs vs 5 gallon buckets of hydro...different locations also. Not a fair test. 

this is one of those things that I do as much as a hold over from my (allegded) illegal days.. Hydroton can be cleaned and reused requiring fewer risky trips to the grow store.. and sooooo much better than cleaning pea stone/gravel

Because I am in a legal state a service other caregivers,I started puttin my clones in #1 or #2 smart pots of a coco mix. They can then go pretty much anywhere. I just set them on top of my hydroton at the high water line. any dirt growers just plant the whole thing..


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## HomeLessBeans (Aug 20, 2012)

Alcofree said:


> What about replacing the foam inserts with RW then going straight to Hydro-medium? Sounds like this may be easier???


This is what I prefer. from cloner to ebb pot. no damaged roots.no shock.no extra material to hold unpleasent suprises.

Hopefully I can get the pictures in order.. Doing it is simple. getting pic to here ??not so much


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## Alcofree (Aug 20, 2012)

AWESOME! Nice job with the pics! Thats what Im currently doing into soil. I had thought about finding/making some 2" circle RW inserts for the cloner however your process appears to eliminate the need for this. I got one more dirt run currently vegging then Im gonna give the Dro a shot!

Thanks much for the help!


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## Alcofree (Aug 20, 2012)

This is the only stuff available at my store...Botanicare Cocogro Coir Fiber Bale 5kg. Is this the same stuff you have had success with?


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## HomeLessBeans (Aug 20, 2012)

Alcofree said:


> This is the only stuff available at my store...Botanicare Cocogro Coir Fiber Bale 5kg. Is this the same stuff you have had success with?


 I'm using the boticare "aeration formula" very light weight, lots of chunky perilite. Pre-mixed. The bricks are a pain in the ass


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## Sencha (Aug 20, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I read the guy mining the hydrotron retired but wasnt 100% sure but now it makes sense


I heard that the original clay mine had simply been over mined for to long, leading to erosion and a very dangerous situation. Don't fear, because B'Cuzz recently bought two new clay mines. Hydroton isn't going anywhere.


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## Alcofree (Aug 20, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> I'm using the boticare "aeration formula" very light weight, lots of chunky perilite. Pre-mixed. The bricks are a pain in the ass


And you use with smart pots and top off with Hydroton? I noticed that the "Flo-n-Gro" system uses square pots and come with fabric inner pots with a "snap" feature that holds the pot secure so they dont float. Kinda leaning towards the "Flo-n-Gro" over the "Ebb-n-Flo" for this reason...


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 20, 2012)

Last I checked the flo n grow dosnt come with the liner. I just bought some. But there only 4 bucks each. But yes the baskets snap in. And the liners pull down to cover the top 2" of the buckets. And pumps are powerful so placing the res 15-20 feet away is no big deal. Mine is 15 feet away. And out of the light. No res cooler needed.


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## HomeLessBeans (Aug 20, 2012)

Alcofree said:


> And you use with smart pots and top off with Hydroton? I noticed that the "Flo-n-Gro" system uses square pots and come with fabric inner pots with a "snap" feature that holds the pot secure so they dont float. Kinda leaning towards the "Flo-n-Gro" over the "Ebb-n-Flo" for this reason...


I feel the titian is superior for many reasons. I don't "top with" hydro I set the smart pot of coco on top of the hydroton.


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## dirk d (Aug 30, 2012)

im running the monster E&G's but the fing control buckets keep dying on me. been battling overwatering with the brains. already returned each of my brain buckets a few months ago and now 1 of the "new" brain buckets is flooding too much for some reason. was told i could switch out to the titan brain bucket..what you guys think of that? thanks.


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 30, 2012)

dirk d said:


> im running the monster E&G's but the fing control buckets keep dying on me. been battling overwatering with the brains. already returned each of my brain buckets a few months ago and now 1 of the "new" brain buckets is flooding too much for some reason. was told i could switch out to the titan brain bucket..what you guys think of that? thanks.


It's a good bucket. Hasn't failed me yet. But you will need to change your monster bucket hoses to 3/4.


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## HomeLessBeans (Aug 30, 2012)

Titian is much better.sweet deal IMHO . Does the monster not already run 3/4 inch lines ??


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## dirk d (Aug 30, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> It's a good bucket. Hasn't failed me yet. But you will need to change your monster bucket hoses to 3/4.


monsters run the 3/4" lines.



HomeLessBeans said:


> Titian is much better.sweet deal IMHO . Does the monster not already run 3/4 inch lines ??


just wondering if mixing the titan brains and the monster buckets are going to lead to any problems. Titan's brain bucket is smaller than CAP's brain bucket, plus Titan uses 1/2" lines from the fill pump to the brain. CAP uses 3/4" lines and my lid is already plumbed. Titan's top float valve is at 10" CAP's top float valve is at 12". Idk just trying to figure out what is best for long term use. thanks again guys.


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 30, 2012)

Guess I gotta read up on CrAP products agin. Didn't know they up sized the flow. And realy if you need the 12 inch switches you can just Chang the bucket to a 5 gallon and set them to where you want. I don't see the need sence most fill pots 2 inch under the lip and raise the buckets 2". But then I haven't Tryed the cross over. And yes Titan uses 1/2 feed lines. But 1200gph pumps. And if you already have the cap bucket you have the 3/4 line hookups. Just make the hole bigger and your done. Can always go bigger. Smaller is harder.


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## madmike1337 (Sep 6, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> This is what I prefer. from cloner to ebb pot. no damaged roots.no shock.no extra material to hold unpleasent suprises.
> 
> Hopefully I can get the pictures in order.. Doing it is simple. getting pic to here ??not so much


Thank you for this! This is awesome stuff and helps a LOT with the transplant shock I'm dealing with.

FYI, My replacement for Hydroton for any interested is Sunleave's Rocks. They have a lame ass slogan about not rolling, but they do have some Silica in them. They are easier to clean than Hydroton, and seem to be working pretty well for me.


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## 420southwest (Sep 8, 2012)

I've got to agree with madmike up there. Sunleaves Rocks rocks. They don't seem to get as coated with algae as hydroton, and are definitely easier to work with.


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## srfjay (Sep 8, 2012)

Cool to hear about the sunleaves rock. Just made a order for them. They are ph neutral and sterile. Not like the growstones which I have Hurd some bad things about.


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## enotee (Sep 14, 2012)

Is there a way to introduce beneficial bacteria without all the slime and gunk in these system?


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 14, 2012)

enotee said:


> Is there a way to introduce beneficial bacteria without all the slime and gunk in these system?


Im having alot of luck with a simple formula
of aqua shield 7ml per gal and pirahna at 2ml
per gal seems real clean.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 20, 2012)

I have a few questions, Finally got my babies transplanted into my Ebb and grow 12 site with hydroton. I have the timer set to water 4 times a day at 30 mins a piece. It didnt seem like it was getting the water level up fast enough before it would start draining. Just wondering if that could lead to overwatering? Also, I was wondering if anyone has used orca with this setup before. Right now I am using AN sensi grow a and b and then B52 also. PPM is at 410 and PH is at 5.6. Kinda pissed though because the leaves on the clones I got look very sativa-ish and I need an 8 week plant because I have 12 weeks from today when my apt inspector comes....... SOOOO yeah lol I might have to rip these babies all out and start new with a heavy indica. The stain is supposidly lemon skunk.


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## HomeLessBeans (Sep 20, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> I have a few questions, Finally got my babies transplanted into my Ebb and grow 12 site with hydroton. I have the timer set to water 4 times a day at 30 mins a piece. It didnt seem like it was getting the water level up fast enough before it would start draining. Just wondering if that could lead to overwatering? Also, I was wondering if anyone has used orca with this setup before. Right now I am using AN sensi grow a and b and then B52 also. PPM is at 410 and PH is at 5.6. Kinda pissed though because the leaves on the clones I got look very sativa-ish and I need an 8 week plant because I have 12 weeks from today when my apt inspector comes....... SOOOO yeah lol I might have to rip these babies all out and start new with a heavy indica. The stain is supposidly lemon skunk.


I hav more than 12 pots hooked up and find 15 mins 3-4 times a day is plenty of water. Never used orca, sensi is ok,same with b52. I perfer to run my nutes in the 1000 ppm range. as far as restarting? maybe just do a shorter veg time? we would need to know much nore about your 'lemon skunk' to be accurate imho.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 20, 2012)

Hang On ill post a pic you can see what you think, I just switched it up to 3x 15 mins once before lights on, halfway through lights on and then just before lights out. I am on an 18/6 schedule.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 20, 2012)

This is the so called lemon skunk. I looked at some things online and everything did say it would look like this


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## HomeLessBeans (Sep 20, 2012)

any lemon thai un there? you are not wrong on the sativa look..


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## GreenDyl (Sep 20, 2012)

idk man, I talked to the guy again he swears its an 8 week strain with a heavy yield. I got another question too, I put the bottom of my starter cube right at where the water stops is that bad? I guess if it comes down to it I should just throw something in there to raise the inner buckets up? I have the like brown starter cubes not rockwool. Not really sure what they are called.


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## HomeLessBeans (Sep 20, 2012)

Then ya gotta believe him. Sounds like perfect placement. I don't raise my pots. Inner or both.
If they a solid with a premade hole prob riot/rapid rooters. If the hav a netting outer then peat plugs!


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 20, 2012)

Looks sativa dom to me. So dont take the guys word and cut in 8 weeks. Get a scope and judge for your self. And 30 min for 12 sites is alot. I do 15 min for 15 plants. Different system but same idea. If your system is still filling after 30 min you do have a problem. Kinked hose would be my guess.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 23, 2012)

I fixed the timing to 3x 15 mins its working like a charm now, One problem I am having is the PH is raising so fast its like im adding ph down 2 or 3 times a day to keep it under 6.0. All I am using is sensi A and B and then B52. Maybe Its from the water left in the buckets which would be my guess. Maybe Ill just start making the PH 5.5 or 5.4 in the res and see if it rasies up to 5.6 when it floods.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 23, 2012)

Run a 24 hour flush. Use florakleen. Mix with clean ph water. Have it run 4 times within the 24 hours. Drain the res. Fill with clean water. Run the system 1 more time. Not ph'ed or nutes just the water. Once it ran the cycle check your ppm and ph. And your nutes and retest ph and adjust. Let it run for 24 hours then check ph if it's within 5.2-6.2. Leave it. But check daily. The 5.2-6.2 is the flex range the system should run. And don't fight to keep 5.8. If I have to adjust the ph more then 4 times a week this is what I do. Also make sure you meter is calibrated. I always have drops as a back up. To much flex in ph means something is wrong. Bacteria set in. So a flush should do it. If not you need to take stronger aproch. H2o2 might be needed. And not the 3% you get from the store. Needs to be 30% foodgrade or better. Where gloves when dealing with that shit. You will burn and bleach your hands. And yes plants can take 24-72 hours of just water. But only if needed.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 23, 2012)

Yeah I am probably gonna have to run H2O2. Should I just buy the stuff AN makes or buy the 30% foodgrade stuff? Will this kill the babies in my system? they seem like they are doing all right except the new leaves seem smaller. The roots on these things cant be too big yet they have only been in the system for a few days. I'm pretty sure its bacteria cause there is like this scummy shit all in my control bucket and a bunch of like booger like slimey things in the rez water. Gonna go get H2O2 tom and flush. Not really quite sure how to do it though some input would be nice.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 23, 2012)

It won't hurt them if they are rooted. AN is 30% I believe. If you use 2-3 ml per gallon you will be fine. If it is 10% they mixed it with DI water. So you would need 6-9 ml a gallon. And scrub the best you can and rince before you drain the system.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh that should only rise your ppm by 30. That is safe for plants. Rise that up to 10x to disinfect a system with out plants. So 30ppm good for plants 300ppm is death.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 23, 2012)

I think what caused this is I put 4 new plants in the system that were out of sunshine mix #4 but i had washed the roots all off. There was still a little dirt on the roots like a cluster at the top but I figured it wasn't enough to do anything but it must have had some bad bacteria in it that have completly taken over cause I take one scoop out of my rez and its got a bunch of those litlle algae like slimey boogers in it. Gonna run H2O2 tom and see what happens.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 23, 2012)

Im probably gonna wash all the buckets out too cause they all have a brown slime on the bottom. I just hope its not the cyanobacteria... but it probably is because my rez temps never go above 68 and i have 2 airstones in the rez.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh yeah I was gonna ask, Say I empty my rez and scrub out all the buckets and what not, can I use the h202 with tap water which mine is city water instead of the RO water im using now?


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 23, 2012)

If your roots are out of the net pots don't stress them out. Just run the system every 6 hours. This will kill everything. But if you realy want to clean then have a bucket with water then place the plants in that and clean. But don't recamend it. Your only mixing in live bacteria in large form and that could stop the H2O2 from doing it's job fighting small amounts. I'll give you a visual. Say you dip your finger in melted butter. How hard is it to get off? Alittle warm water. But now dip it a few times and let cool between. Now get it off. Not so easy.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 23, 2012)

Use you can use tap water. Just test ppm first. Add h2o2 till you get 30-40 ppm above the starting water. Still 2-3 ml/gal. Start at 2 and go up from there.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 23, 2012)

The roots are small, I put them in like a week ago and the PH fluctuations didnt start until I added the last 4 plants which were all out of soil.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 23, 2012)

Flush with water. I think your flex is the hydro mix. Takes me 2 weeks to get new mix under control. So I do believe your safe. I'm gonna guess and say hydroton only. I had major flex at first.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 23, 2012)

Yeah but all my buckets have a brown coating of slime in the water. Also the control bucket and the res do too.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 23, 2012)

I had the same. Trust me do what I said at the start of this convo. And if you using a zyme back off by 1/2.


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## HomeLessBeans (Sep 24, 2012)

Try 20-30 ml bleach in your Rez, if the H2O2 causes more brown slime. you can over oxygenate the system with the air stones and %30 you can create a perfect environment for Cyanobacteria.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 24, 2012)

I went to the hydro store and the dude said that i should use DM gold range zone. So I bought it and added it too my rez for now to see if it helps control it but later I plan on scrubbing out each bucket, scrubbing the rez, and scrubbing the control bucket. Not sure how I can clean out the lines but I think what I am gonna do is use a bleach solution and just soak them in it hopefully killing any of the bacteria. I think what caused this all to happen is me not getting all the soil off of the roots of the 4 plants I transplanted into the system. Super busy day so I will get back on later once I figure out my schedule. Hopefully doing a scrub down and then using the Zone with a rez change will do the trick.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 24, 2012)

I really don't think it is because of rez conditions either because my temp is never above 68 and i have 2 airstones.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 24, 2012)

Here is a pic of the slime


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## HomeLessBeans (Sep 24, 2012)

just keep listening to those hydrostore boys and i am sure it will be fine. If you get lucky before they break ya. put 4-5 drops of good bleach in your controll pot and watch what happens..

bacteria need O2 to survive. air stones and H2O2 make it thrive.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 24, 2012)

it depends on the bacteria right?


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## facestabber (Sep 24, 2012)

DM Zone. It works. 2ml/gal and DONE. Lose the bleach, lose the "beneficials", lose the pythoff. Z-O-N-E!


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## facestabber (Sep 24, 2012)

IF you are using anything other than ZONE you are pissing in the wind.


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## facestabber (Sep 24, 2012)

P.S. ............H2o2 is a band-aid not a solution.


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## HomeLessBeans (Sep 25, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> it depends on the bacteria right?


Not really.


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## GreenDyl (Sep 25, 2012)

Did a heavy application of zone with my res change and scrub out, things are looking good so far


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 26, 2012)

facestabber said:


> P.S. ............H2o2 is a band-aid not a solution.



Very true! Same goes for zone...!


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## GreenDyl (Sep 26, 2012)

Zone didn't work, fuckin pissed. Next step Ill be taking is Physan 20, if that doesn't work I am gonna brew a tea that hopefully will work.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 26, 2012)

The tea is a sure fire win 
but good luck with physan 20


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 26, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Zone didn't work, fuckin pissed. Next step Ill be taking is Physan 20, if that doesn't work I am gonna brew a tea that hopefully will work.


Correct me if I'm wrong HR. But I think tea will take some time to get it under control. And if it's set in good your best hope would to control it. Maybe with the other stuff you have tried you might have a better chance. On your next grow run tea from the start.


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## HomeLessBeans (Sep 26, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Zone didn't work, fuckin pissed. Next step Ill be taking is Physan 20, if that doesn't work I am gonna brew a tea that hopefully will work.


hey there it seems to me i read some where you should try a little fuckin bleach.

physan20 now??? 
.
hey I know I have this secret potion that costs a lot of money I am the only one who can apply it so PM me and send lots of up front money and I will save you...jeeeeezzzeee


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## facestabber (Sep 26, 2012)

Don't give up on the zone so fast. Up it to 3ml/gal and change rez every 4 days until it clears up. Trust me on this, if zone doesn't work nothing will. It is possible that your plants are at the point of no return.


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## facestabber (Sep 26, 2012)

FYI, I've been growing for nearly 20 years and DM Zone is the one product I consider irreplaceable.


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 26, 2012)

How many years you have been growing doesn't 
mean shit, what does mean shit is what works,
zone does but why buy a product that keeps things
sterile! When you can brew teas that provide much
more for your plants! 

Do as you like though


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## dirk d (Sep 27, 2012)

Just swapped one of my old C.A.P. Brain Buckets for a Titan Brain Bucket. anyone else done this?


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## hellraizer30 (Sep 27, 2012)

dirk d said:


> Just swapped one of my old C.A.P. Brain Buckets for a Titan Brain Bucket. anyone else done this?


Yep, you will have to get 3/4 to 1/2
in adapters though


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## tree king (Sep 27, 2012)

facestabber said:


> FYI, I've been growing for nearly 20 years and DM Zone is the one product I consider irreplaceable.


how often are you adding the zone facestabber every 3-4 days?


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Add the zone to any new water that you put in your rez. If you top off just add to the amount that you top off. Since you are having trouble though you should be doing complete drain/scrub/refill every 4-6 days.


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> How many years you have been growing doesn't
> mean shit, what does mean shit is what works,
> zone does but why buy a product that keeps things
> sterile! When you can brew teas that provide much
> ...



Lol. Teas? Pshhh!


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Hellraizer, I've been lurking around here for awhile and the only reason I decided to post in this thread is because I have valuable knowledge to contribute. Please excuse me from your pissing match. TIA


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Hydroponics + Sterile media = Sweet Success


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 29, 2012)

facestabber said:


> Hellraizer, I've been lurking around here for awhile and the only reason I decided to post in this thread is because I have valuable knowledge to contribute. Please excuse me from your pissing match. TIA


Then fucken post and help. If your here to talk shit. Leave. Nice roots but HR is trying to help others get ther. your not saying anything to help others. No help no questions why post?


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 29, 2012)

I respect those that help. Then those that say that know how and don't teach. So piss off


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Geez, this place is as bad as the farm. Have fun dickholes.


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

It's comical to see you guys with thousands of posts coming to each others aid and licking each others scrotums. All you are doing is running off people who could and would otherwise contribute. If you read back a few posts you will see that I did give some good advice, DM Zone.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 29, 2012)

You can talk shit but cant take it. Fuck off lil bitch.


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Any of you guys who are more interested in growing trees than slinging shyt are welcome to any help I can give. I am the MASTER.


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> You can talk shit but cant take it. Fuck off lil bitch.


I think I'll hang around a bit. This place could use some new blood.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 29, 2012)

facestabber said:


> It's comical to see you guys with thousands of posts coming to each others aid and licking each others scrotums. All you are doing is running off people who could and would otherwise contribute. If you read back a few posts you will see that I did give some good advice, DM Zone.


i said if you can help do so. If not your post pointing a finger at somebody isn't welcome. So your here to help or your not. And trust me there is alot that would like roots like that. But dont think your here to help. Most likely a scab from another forum talking shit. We here at RIU stand behind our members.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 29, 2012)

facestabber said:


> Any of you guys who are more interested in growing trees than slinging shyt are welcome to any help I can give. I am the MASTER.


I hope you are here to help. Just give insite not insults.


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> i said if you can help do so. If not your post pointing a finger at somebody isn't welcome. So your here to help or your not. And trust me there is alot that would like roots like that. But dont think your here to help. Most likely a scab from another forum talking shit. We here at RIU stand behind our members.


Here to help warlock. May you all be blessed with white spaghetti roots like mine.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 29, 2012)

Well you didn't sound like it from the start. Would you like to tell us how? I don't have slime or rot but my lower roots are brown do to the nutes and tea I use.


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Honestly man, I would really advise you to drop the "beneficials". Been there, done that, not worth the trouble IMO. I've tried everything and Zone is the best root treatment hands down. I use it on everything from my ezcloner to my ebb n gro. Leave the "beneficials" to the dirt farmers. I also run a chiller and airstones. Rez temp 66-68F


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Had limited success with "Hydrofungicide", Pythoff, Clorox, Hygrozyme, Roots Ex., Great White, etc. but none come close to cranking out the snow white roots like Zone.


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Well you didn't sound like it from the start. Would you like to tell us how? I don't have slime or rot but my lower roots are brown do to the nutes and tea I use.


What kind of nutes? Chemical is best in sterile hydro, plant's can't use organic elements anyways. I like H&G because it's clean and effective. Been tempted to try the DM Gold line though since I like their Zone so well.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 29, 2012)

I didn't like zone. Fucked with my ph to much when my tea or hygrowzyme didn't. I use heavy 16 with my own twist. I don't use what they say I've played for 2 years and found better and cheaper ratings. Can even take glowering plants to 2000 ppm snd not burn them. But in a bucket system I wouldn't go ghat high 1600 is my max. So how do you keep roots so clean? Not going back to zone. Not with what I have setup


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

Clean chemical nutes and Zone, that's it. Rez temp 66-68F, airstones, flood 2 tabs every 4 hours day and night from clone to harvest. Absolutely zero ph fluctuation caused by the Zone with the H&G nutes I use. If you are seeing PH fluctuations with Zone it could be that it's because it's killing pathogens/"beneficials" off and altering the chemical comp. of your nutrient solution. Once your system is clean and sterile PH should be stable.


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## doogleef (Sep 29, 2012)

I have to agree with the idea of using good old chemistry in hydro. Organic reservoirs are just a f'n mess with the PH swing and the delicious odors.

Why on earth would you flood at night?


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 29, 2012)

I flood at night because I don't trust that my roots arnt drying out that all.


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## drgreentm (Sep 29, 2012)

facestabber said:


> View attachment 2353852Hydroponics + Sterile media = Sweet Success


nice roots, looks like mine.


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## tree king (Sep 29, 2012)

facestabber said:


> Add the zone to any new water that you put in your rez. If you top off just add to the amount that you top off. Since you are having trouble though you should be doing complete drain/scrub/refill every 4-6 days.


what if your not having trouble facestabber should a person who changes the res every 2 weeks be adding zone for the complete res every 4-5 days or so? doesnt it last in the res like 4 days so doesnt that mean you add it every time it runs out? just trying to be clear


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

tree king said:


> what if your not having trouble facestabber should a person who changes the res every 2 weeks be adding zone for the complete res every 4-5 days or so? doesnt it last in the res like 4 days so doesnt that mean you add it every time it runs out? just trying to be clear


Just add 2ml to any new water/nutrient solution that you add to your rez. It's also good to trust your nose, smell your rez and become familiar with the way a clean rez smells compared to one that needs rereshing.


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> nice roots, looks like mine.


Killin it!


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## dirk d (Sep 29, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yep, you will have to get 3/4 to 1/2
> in adapters though


you know what i did is just switch the pump fitting to 1/2" from my old 3/4" and then ran the 1/2" tubing right in the holes i had from my 3/4" fittings lol did have to drill a hole in the fitting going from res pump to titan bucket though like the old e&g 90 with the silver tape. everything seems to be working real nice so far.


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## facestabber (Sep 29, 2012)

doogleef said:


> I have to agree with the idea of using good old chemistry in hydro. Organic reservoirs are just a f'n mess with the PH swing and the delicious odors.
> 
> Why on earth would you flood at night?


Because my roots like it. Why on Earth would you not not flood at night? Think about DWC, roots are ALWAYS submerged and they love it.


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## tree king (Sep 29, 2012)

facestabber said:


> Just add 2ml to any new water/nutrient solution that you add to your rez. It's also good to trust your nose, smell your rez and become familiar with the way a clean rez smells compared to one that needs rereshing.


thanks facestabber just wanted to be sure that makes it even better that you dont have to add it every 4 days. i agree with fs on watering during the dark cycle. you should see how much my res gets depleted during the dark cycle in my aero system in flower you would swear the lights were on 24/7


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## facestabber (Sep 30, 2012)

tree king said:


> thanks facestabber just wanted to be sure that makes it even better that you dont have to add it every 4 days. i agree with fs on watering during the dark cycle. you should see how much my res gets depleted during the dark cycle in my aero system in flower you would swear the lights were on 24/7



YW Tree king. Good luck.


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 30, 2012)

And that's why zone dosnt work for me. I'm the one that dose the nutes but most of the time im gone up to 3 weeks and have GF watch water. I know I could do better but feeding the family is best. Facestabber sorry for getting off on the wrong foot and happy to have somebody eles with some insight. We won't always agree on things but that's just growers.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 1, 2012)

Hello fellas! Just got back from another hunt  jeez this zone thing turned into a heated debate..!
@face dude all im here for is to help, not one person here will say different! One thing to remember
and thats what works for one person doesnt always for the next! One thing that throws me off with
your posts are the my shit dont stink attitude..! Your roots look great but those can be got without
zone or bennys! Good water temps/air and cleaning between res changes = a good time for most.
i use bennys for the bennefit to the plant...! Steller roots and clean res is a bonus.

eitherway use what work for you, im a firm believer in if its not broke dont fix it.


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## facestabber (Oct 1, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hello fellas! Just got back from another hunt  jeez this zone thing turned into a heated debate..!
> @face dude all im here for is to help, not one person here will say different! One thing to remember
> and thats what works for one person doesnt always for the next! One thing that throws me off with
> your posts are the my shit dont stink attitude..! Your roots look great but those can be got without
> ...


Don't let my attitude throw you off, you could learn a lot from me. How's that smell to ya?

Seriously though, I know healthy roots can be had without zone or bennys but why risk it when you depend on your plants for medicine or money? Nobody wants to be in week 6 of flower and realize that their roots are turning to slime and dying because they didn't run a sterile rez.
Maybe you can teach me something new. How are "bennys" beneficial to a plant on chemical nutes? The only reason I see to ever run "bennys" is to break organic nutrients down so that plants can actually absorb them. Organic nutes are for dirtfarmers.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 1, 2012)

facestabber said:


> Don't let my attitude throw you off, you could learn a lot from me. How's that smell to ya?
> 
> Seriously though, I know healthy roots can be had without zone or bennys but why risk it when you depend on your plants for medicine or money? Nobody wants to be in week 6 of flower and realize that their roots are turning to slime and dying because they didn't run a sterile rez.
> Maybe you can teach me something new. How are "bennys" beneficial to a plant on chemical nutes? The only reason I see to ever run "bennys" is to break organic nutrients down so that plants can actually absorb them. Organic nutes are for dirtfarmers.


There you go agin. Your right we are wrong. I'm working on testing 2 weeks on bennys and 2 off. So far So good. And it depends on your media. I'm in 80/20 hydroton/coco. So I can use bennys and still be full hydro. It's a bitch and I don't agree but there are ways to go full organic in hydro so zone is out. Bennys is it. And to tell the trueth bennys can be used in any media as long as there is a way for them to habitat. Pure water is a different story. If this wasn't so how can trips and other pest live within the media? There not just fir soil growers. If micro organisms can't live in hydro nether could other pest. And I pointed out that your talking shit to one of the wrong people here. Not a way you wanna start on this forum. Plus he is a mod. Talking shit and only passing on zone could be taken as a unsponcered advertisement. If you can't say you have Tryed other ways you can't say they don't work. And yes I'm standing up for HR you have 40 posts. HR has helped me in way more then that and that was me alone. He is why I'm trying bennys and so far loving it.


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## doogleef (Oct 1, 2012)

I have to agree with face on the science of it. Could he be a bit more diplomatic? Sure. Do you seem kinda easy to butt-hurt? Yep

All the beneficial beasties do the job of breaking down organic compounds into base minerals and ions that the plant can use. If you are using a 100% available nutrient then they are kind of pointless. 

You can certainly do the organic thing in hydro and depend on a natural microbial balance to keep your medium environment in check ... or you can just feed them readily available sauce and take the 'kill 'em all' approach to bacteria. 

Don't get me wrong ... I'm dirt farming these days but ran sterile dro for years and still have my kit.... when running hydro I grow weed, not bacteria.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 1, 2012)

Oh I never said anything about what he is doing or saying. Just how he is saying it. He sounds like he is top dawg. But we can show other reasons. And then he gets pissed and talking crap not fact.


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## facestabber (Oct 1, 2012)

Use "beneficials" in hydro for hit and miss success or run sterile for 100% success. Some have better luck than others with organics and beneficials. Honestly, I believe that it takes a better grower to be successful using beneficials than to go sterile. Sterile is just easier and works every time, especially for the average grower. Sorry if anyone's butt really does hurt. I think you guys are all awesome, even you Warlock.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 1, 2012)

Ty. I just want to fully understand everything befor I can put anything down. I have been bashed because my plants look like shit but I'm also playing with things. I'm at a stage in my life I can. And wont say what is best till I finish my hands on tests. So far it's even. And this could take a year or more to test. So I'm looking for insite not insalts. That's all man. We all can help each other just don't say your wight without knowing the otherside. Together we can help fighting we help nobody. Like I said I'm testing but going to keep my mouth shut till I say say different.


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## dirk d (Oct 2, 2012)

Going the Bennie way is definitely harder...much harder. But the results are unbeatable, done right. I know several growers that went the sterile route and their crops came out like crap. it's all about the grower. If you are lazy or don't care about the end product either way won't matter. you will have the crop you deserve. I grow because it is NOT easy but because I want the best and I want to know what goes into my bud.period.


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## GreenDyl (Oct 2, 2012)

The zone seems to be working, and I'm starting to think that most of the slimy stuff is from using b52


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## facestabber (Oct 2, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> The zone seems to be working, and I'm starting to think that most of the slimy stuff is from using b52


You're on the right track. Don't complicate things for yourself with micro-organisms inhabiting your rez. The best smoke I've ever had has been chemical/hydro grown. 

Post up some pics when those roots start hanging from your pots like spaghetti noodles!


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## doogleef (Oct 2, 2012)

dirk d said:


> Going the Bennie way is definitely harder...much harder. But the results are unbeatable, done right. I know several growers that went the sterile route and their crops came out like crap. it's all about the grower. If you are lazy or don't care about the end product either way won't matter. you will have the crop you deserve. I grow because it is NOT easy but because I want the best and I want to know what goes into my bud.period.


I'd be willing to bet a harvest that in a blind taste/smoke test with properly trimmed and cured buds you can't tell any difference. 

The plant does not care where it sources it's nutrients. It just wants them.


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## facestabber (Oct 2, 2012)

doogleef said:


> I'd be willing to bet a harvest that in a blind taste/smoke test with properly trimmed and cured buds you can't tell any difference.
> 
> The plant does not care where it sources it's nutrients. It just wants them.


Was thinking the same thing when I read that. To each their own. It would be interesting to see a side by side chemical/terpene profile comparison conducted with a mass spectrometer to settle that debate.


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## dirk d (Oct 3, 2012)

doogleef said:


> I'd be willing to bet a harvest that in a blind taste/smoke test with properly trimmed and cured buds you can't tell any difference.
> 
> The plant does not care where it sources it's nutrients. It just wants them.


Already did. Buddy of mine gave me some Mango couple weeks ago and it looked Dank! completely crystallized and fat. Took 2 puffs and tossed it. Organic blows away anything made with Chemicals. Not even close. But to each their own. btw go and get a peach/nectarine from your local supermarket and then go and get a peach/nectarine from an organic store like whole foods or something like that, then compare the two.


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## facestabber (Oct 3, 2012)

Some guys like fat girls, who am I to judge?


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## facestabber (Oct 3, 2012)

Anyone got pics to share? Recent E&G harvests?


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## Snowboarding420 (Oct 4, 2012)

I have seen this through this thread a bunch of times but still have not come to a final answer. DO YOU FLOOD AT NIGHT? Any opinions, thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Snow.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 4, 2012)

Snowboarding420 said:


> I have seen this through this thread a bunch of times but still have not come to a final answer. DO YOU FLOOD AT NIGHT? Any opinions, thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> Snow.


You should not flood at night with ebb&grow flood bucket systems, now with ebb&flow tables sometimes you will
have to to protect exsposed roots.


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## facestabber (Oct 4, 2012)

Snowboarding420 said:


> I have seen this through this thread a bunch of times but still have not come to a final answer. DO YOU FLOOD AT NIGHT? Any opinions, thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> Snow.


I flood at night using hydroton and never fail. my biggest problem is plants that grow too fast. What's your medium?


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## HomeLessBeans (Oct 5, 2012)

I flood at night. Ebb n flo. Hydrocorn.

Degassing the root ball is my main reason. 

Having my timer with 4 equal settings let's me just turn the dial if I want it to cycle it.


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## facestabber (Oct 6, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> I flood at night. Ebb n flo. Hydrocorn.
> 
> Degassing the root ball is my main reason.
> 
> Having my timer with 4 equal settings let's me just turn the dial if I want it to cycle it.


The eqaul settings is smart. You should try 6x a day.


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## HomeLessBeans (Oct 6, 2012)

facestabber said:


> The eqaul settings is smart. You should try 6x a day.


thanks..4 works for me


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## greenghost420 (Oct 8, 2012)

is the siphon valve on the res a must have?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 8, 2012)

greenghost420 said:


> is the siphon valve on the res a must have?



Make life easyer  plus it will save your pump from burning up


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## greenghost420 (Oct 9, 2012)

figures my shit comes missing! know where i can snag one? or anybody have an extra? lol


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 9, 2012)

greenghost420 said:


> figures my shit comes missing! know where i can snag one? or anybody have an extra? lol[/
> 
> i called cap and they sent me one.


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## greenghost420 (Oct 9, 2012)

i got mine on ebay..u think they will still hook it up?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 9, 2012)

Bad bis if they didnt lol


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## facestabber (Oct 13, 2012)

Does anyone know what the lowest float on the E&G controller is for? I have 2 of these systems and the bottom float switches don't seem to have a function. The top float stops the fill pump, the middle float activates the drain pump, and the bottom float??


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## HomeLessBeans (Oct 13, 2012)

It is the Fixit float.. a lot of two float pots where failing so the added that switch. The 2 switch pots where sold to wholesalers and pushed to new Med States.. Most of the E-bay systems have this defect..

The float just sets there activating the pump ,then off. click on..click off click on ...click off..pretty soon there goes your pump.


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## doogleef (Oct 13, 2012)

I think its a double fault for the drain pump to prevent it from running dry and burning up.


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## facestabber (Oct 13, 2012)

doogleef said:


> I think its a double fault for the drain pump to prevent it from running dry and burning up.


That's what I thought too but when the bucket is in drain mode you can lift the bottom float and nothing happens. You can lift the middle float and the drain pump kicks on even if the bottom float is down.


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## facestabber (Oct 13, 2012)

Both the top(fill) float and the middle(drain) float will activate their respective pumps regardless of the position of the bottom float.


***EDIT- The above statement is incorrect. The drain pump is activated by the middle float and deactivated by the bottom float. (thanks Warlock)


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## facestabber (Oct 13, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> It is the Fixit float.. a lot of two float pots where failing so the added that switch. The 2 switch pots where sold to wholesalers and pushed to new Med States.. Most of the E-bay systems have this defect..
> 
> The float just sets there activating the pump ,then off. click on..click off click on ...click off..pretty soon there goes your pump.


This makes sense but what exactly is the function of the bottom float? I can't get it t activate/deactivate anything.


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## HomeLessBeans (Oct 13, 2012)

I think it does nothing.. It was replaced by the second one. Some may be double faults also. I always look for the 3 switch ones for any clients who buy them..this is actually why I reccomend Titian systems


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## facestabber (Oct 13, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> I think it does nothing.. It was replaced by the second one. Some may be double faults also. I always look for the 3 switch ones for any clients who buy them..this is actually why I reccomend Titian systems


Gonna have to call those dicks over at C.A.P. about this one.... Can't imagine those cheap bassturds adding extra parts for no reason at all. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 13, 2012)

Bottom float turns off the drain pump.


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## facestabber (Oct 13, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Bottom float turns off the drain pump.


You the man Warlock! If I hold the bottom float up first and then the middle float the pump kicks on until middle AND bottom float drop down. In other words, the middle float will only deactivate the drain pump IF the bottom float is also in the down position. Thanks to everyone who responded so quickly, I was beating my head against the wall.....


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## greenghost420 (Oct 15, 2012)

ofcourse my system only has 2 floats... wtf!


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 15, 2012)

2 is fine. Top stops the flood. Bottom stops the drain pump. 3rd was how CrAP fixed there issue. But newer systems are fine.


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## GreenDyl (Oct 15, 2012)

Yo what up guys Im back figured Id show off my plants a little Im wondering if I should switch to 12/12 yet cause its been 4 weeks to the day but my plants seem a little small. I've been lst bending them so they make a more even canopy so i figured I'd go another week or two. I had the problem with brown slime because of the organic matter that is left on the top of the root mass. Here are some pics lmk what you guys think. Im running 1200w lights and the day temps never go above 78 and the night temps never go below 65 with the exception of 1 or 2 days. Using Full grand master line for bloom from AN pretty much and now I am using heisenbergs EWC tea to get rid of the brown slime which seems to be working. 

MMMP legal so let me know. Trying to get the highest quality meds to help out with my pains the strains are aurora indica and lemon skunk


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 15, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Yo what up guys Im back figured Id show off my plants a little Im wondering if I should switch to 12/12 yet cause its been 4 weeks to the day but my plants seem a little small. I've been lst bending them so they make a more even canopy so i figured I'd go another week or two. I had the problem with brown slime because of the organic matter that is left on the top of the root mass. Here are some pics lmk what you guys think. Im running 1200w lights and the day temps never go above 78 and the night temps never go below 65 with the exception of 1 or 2 days. Using Full grand master line for bloom from AN pretty much and now I am using heisenbergs EWC tea to get rid of the brown slime which seems to be working. View attachment 2374565View attachment 2374566
> 
> MMMP legal so let me know. Trying to get the highest quality meds to help out with my pains the strains are aurora indica and lemon skunk


Looking good m8 
i always would flip at 4weeks veg!


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## facestabber (Oct 16, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Yo what up guys Im back figured Id show off my plants a little Im wondering if I should switch to 12/12 yet cause its been 4 weeks to the day but my plants seem a little small. I've been lst bending them so they make a more even canopy so i figured I'd go another week or two. I had the problem with brown slime because of the organic matter that is left on the top of the root mass. Here are some pics lmk what you guys think. Im running 1200w lights and the day temps never go above 78 and the night temps never go below 65 with the exception of 1 or 2 days. Using Full grand master line for bloom from AN pretty much and now I am using heisenbergs EWC tea to get rid of the brown slime which seems to be working. View attachment 2374565View attachment 2374566
> 
> MMMP legal so let me know. Trying to get the highest quality meds to help out with my pains the strains are aurora indica and lemon skunk


Forgive me for being honest but if those plants have been in the E&G for a month something is seriously wrong. Your pots should be filled with roots within the first 2 weeks. You said earlier in the thread that you were trying Zone and it seemed to be working. Now you are back on teas again??? You seem to lack the most important quality of a greenthumb.......patience! The only tea I like is sweet and served on ice.


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## GreenDyl (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah I know they should be bigger and I can tell you why they are not. The first reason is that I've been using a bad ph meter for a month now. I took it in and it was fucked up so bad like i probably wasn't having terrible ph fluctuations and it was a whole 1.2 off and could not be kept calibrated. 2nd reason is that I had a brown slime from adding plants with soil still on the roots. Nothing will kill the shit besides physan 20 and I had to go light on it cause the plants are still small. The only way to prevent the slime from taking over again is to use heisenbergs tea recipe which I can tell is working now because all the new roots are nice and white.

That being said I went out and splurged a little bit and got the blue labs guardian and am brewing my 2nd batch of tea to add on Friday. Ill probably see how the plants look in 2 weeks and decide to flip.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 16, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Yeah I know they should be bigger and I can tell you why they are not. The first reason is that I've been using a bad ph meter for a month now. I took it in and it was fucked up so bad like i probably wasn't having terrible ph fluctuations and it was a whole 1.2 off and could not be kept calibrated. 2nd reason is that I had a brown slime from adding plants with soil still on the roots. Nothing will kill the shit besides physan 20 and I had to go light on it cause the plants are still small. The only way to prevent the slime from taking over again is to use heisenbergs tea recipe which I can tell is working now because all the new roots are nice and white.
> 
> That being said I went out and splurged a little bit and got the blue labs guardian and am brewing my 2nd batch of tea to add on Friday. Ill probably see how the plants look in 2 weeks and decide to flip.


That gaurdian kicks ass! Keep on rocking that tea!


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## GreenDyl (Oct 16, 2012)

Dude it's so bad ass. I feel bad for spending basically my whole paycheck on it haha but it's gonna be worth it in the end.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 16, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Dude it's so bad ass. I feel bad for spending basically my whole paycheck on it haha but it's gonna be worth it in the end.


Will save you so much headache lol


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## GreenDyl (Oct 16, 2012)

How big should plants be if I wanna pull like 4 oz off each plant? I think it's completely possible considering I'm using AN nutes with like pretty much the grand master lineup. Super lemon haze which I guess is a heavy yeilder and then 3 aurora indica.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 16, 2012)

With good genetics and a dialed in room i was geting 4to 5 off each with 4weeks veg time!
but thats with zero issue during veg


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## facestabber (Oct 17, 2012)

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. Enjoy your tea pot.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

facestabber said:


> You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. Enjoy your tea pot.


Not everybody into zone or h202! I have used both and i seen the light! And its true you cant make a horse
drink, #1 reason im not on your choice to not use it!


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## facestabber (Oct 17, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Not everybody into zone or h202! I have used both and i seen the light! And its true you cant make a horse
> drink, #1 reason im not on your choice to not use it!


Throw up some of YOUR root pics, lets see what you're working with.


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## facestabber (Oct 17, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Dude it's so bad ass. I feel bad for spending basically my whole paycheck on it haha but it's gonna be worth it in the end.


Sorry to hear that you've been lead down that long, slimy, brown, expensive road. It's gonna be an adventure but in the end you will give up or go sterile. One thing that breaks my cold heart is a sick ganja tree.


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## HomeLessBeans (Oct 17, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Bottom float turns off the drain pump.


so the bottom float turns off the drain. the second turns it on and the third turns it on too?


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## HomeLessBeans (Oct 17, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> How big should plants be if I wanna pull like 4 oz off each plant? I think it's completely possible considering I'm using AN nutes with like pretty much the grand master lineup. Super lemon haze which I guess is a heavy yeilder and then 3 aurora indica.


Dude you realy should hit me for my $uper duper grannieS ma$terbater formula..just for you !!! 

Lets see "iwanna grow best meds" he said..now "I wanna grow Big meds" or "I want natural teas" or "I'm the biggest boy ever!!! I use AN grand Ma$ter" And the Cherry? countin your wieght before it even hits flower???? Lemon Haze and a Indica??? U need to make up your mind

Dialed in ebb...28 days veg.50-55 days flower..5.8 oz Bud per plant.. 4 trips a year


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## facestabber (Oct 17, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> so the bottom float turns off the drain. the second turns it on and the third turns it on too?


Top float- Turns FLOOD pump off and on. (flood pump on when float down and off when float up)
Middle float- Activates DRAIN pump. (drain pump on when float up)
Bottom Float- Deactivates DRAIN pump. (drain pump off when float down)


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

facestabber said:


> Throw up some of YOUR root pics, lets see what you're working with.


Dude i had one of the largest threads going on riu! Root porn and bud porn! Theres no need to post anything!
theres tons of peeps that will 2nd what im saying! Im not just some person talking out my ass. Been here way
to long! To get jazzed up by your lack of my skills!


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

Teas are a great way to fix the root problem. It dosnt happen as fast as h2o2 but it's realy hard to kill them as well. I've dunked whole cubes in just tea and let it do it's thing. Plant came back. Can't do that with h2o2. I'm sure it has been said. If the root problem is to far you might wanna flush with h2o2 and then go tea. Fixing these problems don't happen over night. Good luck.


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## facestabber (Oct 17, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Dude i had one of the largest threads going on riu! Root porn and bud porn! Theres no need to post anything!
> theres tons of peeps that will 2nd what im saying! Im not just some person talking out my ass. Been here way
> to long! To get jazzed up by your lack of my skills!


I'm glad I lack your "skills". I abandoned those noob tactics long ago when I found MY skills. Keep promoting your little tea party though, it's cute.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

facestabber said:


> I'm glad I lack your "skills". I abandoned those weak tactics long ago when I found MY skills. Keep promoting your little tea party though, it's cute.


Why are you trying to fight with HR? He has never said grow his way or not at all! Just gives first hand knowledge if what he has done. But after playing with bennies the last few grows I found them better. But still keep H2O2 on hand. My roots arnt white becouse of a few things I add but a simple dunk in water and there white as hell.


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## facestabber (Oct 17, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Why are you trying to fight with HR? He has never said grow his way or not at all! Just gives first hand knowledge if what he has done. But after playing with bennies the last few grows I found them better. But still keep H2O2 on hand. My roots arnt white becouse of a few things I add but a simple dunk in water and there white as hell.


You know what Warlock, you're right. GreenDyl seems to be all over the place with his garden anyway. looks like he's gonna kill those plants with or without HR's help.

P.S. GreenDyl, if you're reading this just understand that I want you to succeed. Your plants look sad though...... even if HR thinks otherwise.


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## GreenDyl (Oct 17, 2012)

Haha bro you are literally a troll. The advice you gave me did not work so why would I listen to you. Obviously you don't know shit about MY garden because what you suggested doesn't work against brown slime algae. There are a ton of posts that will specifically tell you that nothing will get rid of the slime besides adding bennies to your nutrient solution. Everything HR has said on this forum has helped me and considering the fact he started his own thread dedicated to E&G I'm pretty sure he knows a hell of a lot more then you do about the aspects of this system. Since adding the bennies to my res 5 days ago the roots have started to explode again and have turned all white. 

Have you even tried using bennies in your system? Seems like the only reason one wouldn't do this is because its more work then adding zone or whatever to your solution. You sound just like the people at the hydro store who haven't actually tried every route and they just know what works best for them. Everyones growing conditions and setups are going to be different and you being a fuckin smartass is not going to help anyone. If you did have skill you would have asked more about the problem at hand and not just said dude use zone.

Other then that I am pretty pumped to let this tent fill out and get like 5 ounces off each plant of the highest quality shit and rub it in facestabbers... well... face. Ill post a pic at the end of next week to show you the difference between using tea and using zone.


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## greenghost420 (Oct 17, 2012)

is great white a good idea in the e&g?


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

greenghost420 said:


> is great white a good idea in the e&g?


Yes and no. Helps with the roots and all but dosnt dissolve well in a system.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Yes and no. Helps with the roots and all but dosnt dissolve well in a system.



Warlocks right! Only way i would use great white is during the tea brewing phase!


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## facestabber (Oct 18, 2012)

GreenDyldo said:


> Haha bro you are literally a troll. The advice you gave me did not work so why would I listen to you. Obviously you don't know shit about MY garden because what you suggested doesn't work against brown slime algae. There are a ton of posts that will specifically tell you that nothing will get rid of the slime besides adding bennies to your nutrient solution. Everything HR has said on this forum has helped me and considering the fact he started his own thread dedicated to E&G I'm pretty sure he knows a hell of a lot more then you do about the aspects of this system. Since adding the bennies to my res 5 days ago the roots have started to explode again and have turned all white.
> 
> Have you even tried using bennies in your system? Seems like the only reason one wouldn't do this is because its more work then adding zone or whatever to your solution. You sound just like the people at the hydro store who haven't actually tried every route and they just know what works best for them. Everyones growing conditions and setups are going to be different and you being a fuckin smartass is not going to help anyone. If you did have skill you would have asked more about the problem at hand and not just said dude use zone.
> 
> Other then that I am pretty pumped to let this tent fill out and get like 5 ounces off each plant of the highest quality shit and rub it in facestabbers... well... face. Ill post a pic at the end of next week to show you the difference between using tea and using zone.


*

1- No I'm not "literally" a troll, that's just crazy talk.

2- If the advice I gave you didn't work it's because you didn't do it right or give it enough time. (or maybe you are lying and never tried it.)

3- Yes HR is very helpful most of the time, I just disagree with him here. The vast majority of professional hydro growers agree that sterile is superior in hydroponics. I've been in many large scale hydro gardens from commercial food to ornamental crops...all sterile and incredibly efficient.

4- Yes I have tried "bennies". They were expensive, dirty, smelly, ineffective, and just not practical for use in a hydro system when running chemical ferts.

5- Yes using "bennies" is more work, this we agree on.

6- I sound nothing like most of "the people at they hydro store". Those guys are more likely to push the more expensive "bennies" on you because their job is to separate you from your paycheck. 5 liters of Z costs me about $75 and treats 2,500 gallons of water.

7- Me being a "fuckin smartass" as you perceive it will only help those who listen. Like rape it will only hurt if you fight it.

8- I have enough skill to know the solution to your VERY simple problem without "asking more questions". While this may be confusing to a simpleton like yourself it is child's play to me.

9- You're not gonna pull "like 5 ounces off each plant". Seriously, you're not.

10- Let me help you out with that Zone roots pic. (see below)

11- Ya suck.​
​

*


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## HomeLessBeans (Oct 18, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Haha bro you are literally a troll. The advice you gave me did not work so why would I listen to you. Obviously you don't know shit about MY garden because what you suggested doesn't work against brown slime algae. There are a ton of posts that will specifically tell you that nothing will get rid of the slime besides adding bennies to your nutrient solution. Everything HR has said on this forum has helped me and considering the fact he started his own thread dedicated to E&G I'm pretty sure he knows a hell of a lot more then you do about the aspects of this system. Since adding the bennies to my res 5 days ago the roots have started to explode again and have turned all white.
> 
> Have you even tried using bennies in your system? Seems like the only reason one wouldn't do this is because its more work then adding zone or whatever to your solution. You sound just like the people at the hydro store who haven't actually tried every route and they just know what works best for them. Everyones growing conditions and setups are going to be different and you being a fuckin smartass is not going to help anyone. If you did have skill you would have asked more about the problem at hand and not just said dude use zone.
> 
> Other then that I am pretty pumped to let this tent fill out and get like 5 ounces off each plant of the highest quality shit and rub it in facestabbers... well... face. Ill post a pic at the end of next week to show you the difference between using tea and using zone.


Well since we are 'literally" name callin you sir are an "askhole".
have a nice day and good luck on that countin your chickens before they are buds thing..


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## Red1966 (Oct 18, 2012)

facestabber said:


> Was thinking the same thing when I read that. To each their own. It would be interesting to see a side by side chemical/terpene profile comparison conducted with a mass spectrometer to settle that debate.


 Who among us would know how to properly interpret the results?


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## Red1966 (Oct 18, 2012)

So listen up guys. I just got my first ebb & gro 12 bucket system. I have some Sensi Seeds Big Bud, Some Barney's Farm LSD, and a whole bunch of different single freebees I got from the Attitude. I was planning to try a vertical grow with the buckets in a circle around 1,2, or 3 bare bulb lights 400w each. Is mixing up the strains going to cause me problems down the road? What is the best way to start from seeds with the ebb & gro? Or is that a bad idea and I should start a new mother plant for clones? And a link to a really idiot-proof curing system would really be helpful as my previous endeavors in dirt and aero have come out harsh to smoke.


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## facestabber (Oct 18, 2012)

Red1966 said:


> So listen up guys. I just got my first ebb & gro 12 bucket system. I have some Sensi Seeds Big Bud, Some Barney's Farm LSD, and a whole bunch of different single freebees I got from the Attitude. I was planning to try a vertical grow with the buckets in a circle around 1,2, or 3 bare bulb lights 400w each. Is mixing up the strains going to cause me problems down the road? What is the best way to start from seeds with the ebb & gro? Or is that a bad idea and I should start a new mother plant for clones? And a link to a really idiot-proof curing system would really be helpful as my previous endeavors in dirt and aero have come out harsh to smoke.


Exciting stuff Red! Running diff. strains can be a pain because of the obvious reasons but should be manageable with only 12 plants. If you are planning on running 1200w of light I suggest 2 600's in a 4x8 tent above your plants. The best way to start seed plants for the E&G is in rockwool cubes but you will be better off with proven clones. Seed plants can sometimes give unpleasant surprises.......skeet skeet skeet


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 18, 2012)

I always say don't mix strains unless you know they work together. Same feed same time. Some need less of something others need more. This could be a problem. Can you plant 2 different seeds in soil and grow till you can clone as many as you want? And any freebie autos go ahead and use.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 18, 2012)

facestabber said:


> Exciting stuff Red! Running diff. strains can be a pain because of the obvious reasons but should be manageable with only 12 plants. If you are planning on running 1200w of light I suggest 2 600's in a 4x8 tent above your plants. The best way to start seed plants for the E&G is in rockwool cubes but you will be better off with proven clones. Seed plants can sometimes give unpleasant surprises.......skeet skeet skeet


I do agree this face on this one


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## Red1966 (Oct 18, 2012)

Yeah, I had doubts about multiple strains, I thought going vertical would negate the differing heights, but that still leaves problems with differing growth cycles and the attendant nute mix. I was hoping to cut down on my wattage, I have two dimmable 600w Lumateks (350w, 400w, and 600w) and a straight 400w Galaxy. All are digital. I was thinking I would use only the number of lights actually needed to illuminate the whole plant. 4-8 plants in a circle. My tent is 54" x 96" so I would be limited to that size. I was hoping the vertical aspect would reduce or eliminate the need for pruning, lower my plant count, reduce visibility of my electric bill (my bill doubles when I'm running 1200w) How many plants can I cram in a circle given my tent dimensions and lighting? Or should I just give up on the idea of a vertical? The great things about the ebb & gro is the flexibility and being able to put the pots on the floor for more vertical growth. I grew 18 plants in soil using 1200w, but was a newbie and burned them badly. I got 24 oz of shit weed out of it. I started with bagseed that was only slightly better, so I guess it wasn't a total failure. The second was from LSD clones in a home built aero system under a screen, like the stinkbud system (I had never seen the stinkbud system until after starting the grow). I made a aerocloner that really worked well, even a couple of woody cuttings sprouted, tho they took a long time. Whats the best way to keep mother plants from getting too big while growing out the clones? My first one outgrew its small tent and I had to kill it. As you may have noticed, I still like the idea of a vertical. I'm not really looking for quantity, I want quality.


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## joethegrower86 (Oct 19, 2012)

Hey fellas! well...I have been following this thread for about the last two years on and off. And it has helped me alot and thank you all. I just need help with one more thing. I am finally moving out of the spot i am in now and moving into the country. too many neighbors, eyes and just people. I am tired of being so paraniod. Well...I need help designing a room. I just cant think the way i used to after my car accident. Basically i will have an area that is 12feet by 24ft with 8foot ceilings. I only have 1 600w and a ebb and grow 12pot system. I am looking for something that is not too crazy. I want to keep it simple. i have about 6k i want to spend. I would like to stay with the ebb and grow. it is what i know and clone with dwc,bubbleponic. I would like to keep the count below 99. I dont like the perpetual way i would like to just have it dedicated to all the same ages of the plants. I will get too confused filtering out and harvesting a couple at a time. I am also interested in that controller that hooks up to the ballasts that will switch the power between two flowering rooms. If you guys can help with some ideas that would be great. Hellraizer i have been watching for awhile now and want to say good job! maybe you can share some knowledge or ideas


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

Hey joe thanks for the kind words!... with 6k and 12x24 i would go with 1000s and a-wing style shields.
reason for using adjusterwing is the foot print! 1000 in a large a-wing covers a effective 5x7 foot print.
so with 12x24 you could hang x4 1000s with lots of room to move around, or x6 1000s with minimal area
to move around. Each x2 lights and area would have a dedicated ebb system for that area.

costs would be 
$475ea. solis tek 1000watt ballest and bulb combo 
$200ea. awing shields 
$700ea. cap systems with exspantion packs 
After all this you would have a good amount of cash
to out the room with fans and a cooling systems


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## doogleef (Oct 19, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey joe thanks for the kind words!... with 6k and 12x24 i would go with 1000s and a-wing style shields.
> reason for using adjusterwing is the foot print! 1000 in a large a-wing covers a effective 5x7 foot print.
> so with 12x24 you could hang x4 1000s with lots of room to move around, or x6 1000s with minimal area
> to move around. Each x2 lights and area would have a dedicated ebb system for that area.
> ...



Um .. yea.. What he said.


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## joethegrower86 (Oct 19, 2012)

Not a problem hellraizer! I remember you and kitty pretty much doing all the mentoring and figuring what works best. And thank you for your time with the research. What method do you think will work best for the babies? sorry thats my name for them. I have found that i cant have them too tall because of light penatration. But i do like the lolli pop way and topped. And i herd something about letting them establish a good root system before flipping them. What do you think would be a good height to flip them. Right now i have 1 g13labs ww and pe. I changed the light cycle when they were about 18" and halfway thru the flowering they are about 4ft now. Its just seems like they might be a lil to tall this time and i see that i couldve been done by now.So what works best for you? I will get a pic up tomorrow. I am proud of it. I just didnt like the way the pe was growing so i just took all ww clones. Its like the pe had a mutation arounf the 2ft mark of the plant. I was getting single leaves. it looked like one of those rudi-somthings. sorry cant remember the name. Its was wierd though!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

joethegrower86 said:


> Not a problem hellraizer! I remember you and kitty pretty much doing all the mentoring and figuring what works best. And thank you for your time with the research. What method do you think will work best for the babies? sorry thats my name for them. I have found that i cant have them too tall because of light penatration. But i do like the lolli pop way and topped. And i herd something about letting them establish a good root system before flipping them. What do you think would be a good height to flip them. Right now i have 1 g13labs ww and pe. I changed the light cycle when they were about 18" and halfway thru the flowering they are about 4ft now. Its just seems like they might be a lil to tall this time and i see that i couldve been done by now.So what works best for you? I will get a pic up tomorrow. I am proud of it. I just didnt like the way the pe was growing so i just took all ww clones. Its like the pe had a mutation arounf the 2ft mark of the plant. I was getting single leaves. it looked like one of those rudi-somthings. sorry cant remember the name. Its was wierd though!


18in =4 ft. Later on is a monster lol try flipping at 10in and top them a week before you flip!
and at week 2 of flower lolliepop them halfway up or at least 1/4 the way up. 

For vegging i liked going 1gal bucket filled with floc or loose fill growdan on a 4x4 flood table!
under t-5 pannels low watts no heat supper simple! You can use growdan blocks, and if you
like tron thats cool to.

now i dont have much knowledge in those strains but if your trying to find a slower stretching
one you might look at sure fire seeds fire starter! Its a fem but super stable and is 100% dank


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## guati86 (Oct 22, 2012)

Hows it goin hellraizer! Well....I have been putting in a lot of time recently looking at other options and doing alot of math. I feel like i am doing some crazy college project with all this work. Basically i have came up with something and wanted to run it by you guys. Ok here it goes.....4 3x3 ebb and flow tables,4 600 watt with a reflector that has a good footprint wich i cant really decide on. I want to use the ebb and grow for mothers and another 3x3 table with a metal halide forfor vegg. And veg for possibly two weeks. I would like to get w elbows a month. Hows that look to you guys


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## guati86 (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh and by the way this is joethegrower86 my comp it messed up right now.


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## GreenDyl (Oct 22, 2012)

Okay so here are 3 pics, the first is the first day I started using the tea, The second is from today which is a full week from the first pic, the third pic is just my plants this week. This convinces me that tea 100% is the only cure for brown slime aka cyanobacteria.


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## GreenDyl (Oct 22, 2012)

Sorry for freaking out on you before but zone just doesn't work for this problem. I let it run for 2 weeks with zone with 0 improvement. I have learned a few lessons on this grow. I probably will go sterile for my next grow because the smell of bennies sucks but its deff necessary for my situation. Idk if I should let the tent fill out and then flip or if I should flip and see how the rest of the grow goes. Having the PH off for the first 4 weeks has deff effected the plants but I think they can still fill out most of the tent in the next week or two. Realistically I am looking to get like 2.5-4 os a plant. Any thoughts?


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 22, 2012)

I've triedeverything out there zone and h2o2 worked but killed everything. I'm switching to xtream Gardenings tea but have over $100 left of zyme. So going to use that up befor full swap. Veg table uses tea only and went from night to day. Couldn't be happier with roots now. They still have browning do to the zyme but clean and happy. Even got my ph under control


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2012)

guati86 said:


> Hows it goin hellraizer! Well....I have been putting in a lot of time recently looking at other options and doing alot of math. I feel like i am doing some crazy college project with all this work. Basically i have came up with something and wanted to run it by you guys. Ok here it goes.....4 3x3 ebb and flow tables,4 600 watt with a reflector that has a good footprint wich i cant really decide on. I want to use the ebb and grow for mothers and another 3x3 table with a metal halide forfor vegg. And veg for possibly two weeks. I would like to get w elbows a month. Hows that look to you guys



Cool tubes will cover a 3x3 well! And if your goal is that said amount monthy! The setup you just layed out
will do that every 2 weeks if you went zero veg sog


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## facestabber (Oct 23, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Sorry for freaking out on you before but zone just doesn't work for this problem. I let it run for 2 weeks with zone with 0 improvement. I have learned a few lessons on this grow. I probably will go sterile for my next grow because the smell of bennies sucks but its deff necessary for my situation. Idk if I should let the tent fill out and then flip or if I should flip and see how the rest of the grow goes. Having the PH off for the first 4 weeks has deff effected the plants but I think they can still fill out most of the tent in the next week or two. Realistically I am looking to get like 2.5-4 os a plant. Any thoughts?


It's all for fun, no worries. My thoughts are this, things are looking much better. Whatever tea you're brewing and the adjustments you've made are working for now so follow through with the application RELIGIOUSLY for the remainder of the grow or the slime will come back almost overnight. If you can keep those roots thriving your next problem will be having to cut them out of your tubing. Also remember that after the 2nd or 3rd week of flower your plants will all but stop growing roots. If the slime comes back at that point it's game over. Good luck


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## guati86 (Oct 23, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Cool tubes will cover a 3x3 well! And if your goal is that said amount monthy! The setup you just layed out
> will do that every 2 weeks if you went zero veg sog


Thank you so much for your help hellraizer! I was thinking the samee as you. But i think i will stick with the once a month harvest. I had a typo i was tryin to get 2a month. If i do the once every two weeks i think it will be a decent amount of more work. The place i am movin to has alot of property. And i will have animals and some acres to have to take care off.


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## greenghost420 (Oct 25, 2012)

you guys have a specific brand tea you use or you home brew your own? what tea did you use to kill that slime?


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 25, 2012)

I Tryed to make my own home brew. It worked good but wasn't what I wanted. I could of done some research and found better. But was given a few free samples of the Xtream Gardenings tea from my hydro store. Everything I want. And for 5 bucks a week I don't get my hands dirty.


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## greenghost420 (Oct 26, 2012)

thats what i like to hear!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 26, 2012)

greenghost420 said:


> you guys have a specific brand tea you use or you home brew your own? what tea did you use to kill that slime?


Hiesenbergs tea seems to be the winner if brewed right!


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## facestabber (Nov 18, 2012)

Was running 2 E&G systems side by side and had much better yields in one than the other. All the same clone, same nutes, same lights, etc. I couldn't figure it out for a few days but what I eventually discovered is that one of my controller buckets fills up to 7 inches deep* and the other 8 inches. The plants on the 8 inch flood depth system yielded much better. For the next run I've decided to move the fill float up another inch to get my controller buckets flooding as deep as possible (9inches). More root volume = bigger yield. The E&G inner buckets hold 8 quarts of hydroton but only flood about half way with an unmodified controller bucket. Anyone else done this mod yet?

*The controller bucket that only floods 7 inches is defective. The float switch trips way too soon. It shouldn't deactivate the fill pump until the float switch is nearly level.


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## dbkick (Nov 18, 2012)

how would you do that? oh I suppose plugging the existing hole would work.
I did mod a regular size cap ebb and flo to a 5 gallon bucket. you'll need to snip a wire or two and crimp on a connector but it's pretty simple.just elevating the controller an inch would probably work too, wouldn't drain back as much of course.


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## facestabber (Nov 19, 2012)

Yeah, just finished it and I did have to extend the 2 wires to move the float up. Had to cut some plastic away on the side of the bucket to get at the spot where the new hole needed to be drilled. I put a grommet in the old float switch hole with a barb and a cap.



Most of us raise our satellite buckets about a half inch to get them to drain properly. Unfortunately, when you raise your buckets you also lower your flood level. Raising the top float switch will remedy this problem. Hopefully the engineers at C.A.P. read this stuff, I'd like to see them make some 3 gallon satellite buckets that are compatible with the original E&G controller bucket.


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## facestabber (Nov 19, 2012)

Couldn't find a cap for the barb so I just stabbed some white caulk in the hole.


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## jointsallday (Nov 19, 2012)

researchkitty said:


> Please dont add bleach to your reservoir. Bleach is bad for plants and for the nutrients in your reservoir. Use something like simple green or a citrus based cleaner, eh? In 1200 posts in this thread, not one talks about adding bleach to a reservoir. Please show me where it is "used in commercial hydroponics constantly". If I'm wrong, hats off to ya for showing me something new.


Take your hat off then. He is correct in doses. Cannot use with organics. Google is a good way to learn. Try fatman chlorine. It is used by commercial greenhouses everywhere.Hydro shops cant charge you out the wazoo for a gallon of clorox. Therefore why would they educate you? Works Great and is very cost efficient... take care & enjoy.


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## jointsallday (Nov 19, 2012)

Ferredoxin said:


> I can understand why people would want beneficials in soil, but not in a hydro system....at least not a hydro system with skinny tubes and dark buckets with lots of crevices for shit to grow in. If you are THAT concerned with a microherd, then this system is probably not for you.


Do a google on Heisenburgs Tea. The theory being his bennies ( in hydro ) eat all the funk. It's not for breaking down organics. .. enjoy


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## jointsallday (Nov 19, 2012)

MoJobud said:


> Anyone else have a problem with the drain pump trying to keep the controller level steady? The float on the bottom is at an angle from the factory. As the final bit of water pumps out from the controller via the hose to the res tank it shuts off when the float drops. Great but then the water that didn't make it all the way to the res in the line comes back and creates a wave action and the float goes back up so the pump tries to pump water out and this cycle is never ending.What did you guys do? I am thinking my line might be too long or is this just common with the CAP system and I just live with it?Also if you raise your buckets to drain fully, you lose about a good inch of space for hydroton or just grow space. Is this a problem for any of you? Should I just keep the buckets at ground level with the controller?thanks


You could put an inline check valve in the hose directly above the controller and it wont allow the water back up. Costs a couple bucks....enjoy


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## GreenDyl (Nov 20, 2012)

Check out the progress, still been using heisenburgs tea which owns hard. Pretty sure Ill go completely sterile for the next grow cause the smell reeks up my closet which all my clothes are in. Day 21 flowering. The first picture is the whole tent, Second is aurora indica and the third pic is lemon skunk. Im scared because the lemon skunk looks really sativa-ish and I really need this thing to be done around 8 weeks and they are stretchy as all hell. If anyones got any pointers for me lemme know.


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## facestabber (Nov 20, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Check out the progress, still been using heisenburgs tea which owns hard. Pretty sure Ill go completely sterile for the next grow cause the smell reeks up my closet which all my clothes are in. Day 21 flowering. The first picture is the whole tent, Second is aurora indica and the third pic is lemon skunk. Im scared because the lemon skunk looks really sativa-ish and I really need this thing to be done around 8 weeks and they are stretchy as all hell. If anyones got any pointers for me lemme know. View attachment 2416218View attachment 2416219View attachment 2416220


I hope those lights move up more because you're gonna need the head room for those sativas. If not you'll need to do some supercroopping (yes you can supercrop while flowering). What exactly does that tea smell like?


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## GreenDyl (Nov 20, 2012)

I got like 2 more feet maybe 3, I'm hoping they will stop stretching this week or the next though. I figured out today that my problems with the slime was what I'm gonna call a bad batch of B52. I didn't add the Tea and I added the B52 and within 1 day my whole system was slimed up and smelled like absolute shit. The tea I make is a tweeked version of heisenburgs its 50ml aquasheild, 1 scoop great white, 2 handfuls of ancient forest and 50 ml of carboload. Usually doesnt start to stink up my room for like 5 or 6 days but it just smells like a fart kinda lol


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## GreenDyl (Nov 27, 2012)

Figured out my problem. The Heisenburgs tea is only supposed to be used with synthetic nutes. Bud candy and b52 are what the smell is coming from because the bacteria in the tea can breed from them and do... into the trillions and trillions. No negative effect though just a really bad smell. For my next grow Ill probably just use ANs GMB and then big bud and overdrive. All the other things have made things more difficult in my situation.


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## BUdbuddysmile (Nov 27, 2012)

I had a little episode with my res getting funky. I don't think it was B52 though. I think it got funky with Carbs and Benys. It was in August and temps may have gotta a little too high. I was at about 75 in the res. I got big old snot wads and it smelled. Im not sure if it as the same issue for you, but I continue to use B52 with no issues. I still use carbs and bennys too with no issues. I think it was mainly temps that worked up a mess. I have been debating on switching to H202. Thats what I do in my cloner and it works great.


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## GreenDyl (Nov 27, 2012)

Eh my temps are never above 70, i think i just added to much bennies with carbs


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 28, 2012)

BUdbuddysmile said:


> I had a little episode with my res getting funky. I don't think it was B52 though. I think it got funky with Carbs and Benys. It was in August and temps may have gotta a little too high. I was at about 75 in the res. I got big old snot wads and it smelled. Im not sure if it as the same issue for you, but I continue to use B52 with no issues. I still use carbs and bennys too with no issues. I think it was mainly temps that worked up a mess. I have been debating on switching to H202. Thats what I do in my cloner and it works great.


Temps that high and adding carbs = a bad res, hies tea a b52 are fine i have used then in a ebb system for many years.


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## GreenDyl (Nov 28, 2012)

Hey Hellraizer what nutes do you think produce the biggest buds in an E&G? I really want to give the b52 another chance cause it does have a lot of beneficial things in it. I think my next rez change I am going to do the Sensi bloom a&b, B52, and Overdrive. Ill add the tea to the rez and see if it starts smelling again. Or I am willing to take suggestions on it. I guess what I could do is just start by adding the sensi bloom then wait a day or two then add the overdrive or b52 then wait a few days. Probably was the bud candy that was making it smell though.


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## BUdbuddysmile (Nov 28, 2012)

Its like brewing a big ol' tea.


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 28, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> Hey Hellraizer what nutes do you think produce the biggest buds in an E&G? I really want to give the b52 another chance cause it does have a lot of beneficial things in it. I think my next rez change I am going to do the Sensi bloom a&b, B52, and Overdrive. Ill add the tea to the rez and see if it starts smelling again. Or I am willing to take suggestions on it. I guess what I could do is just start by adding the sensi bloom then wait a day or two then add the overdrive or b52 then wait a few days. Probably was the bud candy that was making it smell though.


getting big buds falls on a number of things, but if i had ti put a finger on the one that yields the most! Would be AN.....
but with that comes tons of issues!


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## GreenDyl (Nov 29, 2012)

I understand having every other variable in perfect range does effect how much bud you get but, nutrients are a key part and I would say at least 20 percent of yeild is nutrients alone.


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## GreenDyl (Nov 29, 2012)

I like AN but you are right, so many of their products are shit that cant be used with other products. sucks but i bet once you figure out exactly how it all works you can be pullin like 2 bos off 1000 watt lights


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 29, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> I like AN but you are right, so many of their products are shit that cant be used with other products. sucks but i bet once you figure out exactly how it all works you can be pullin like 2 bos off 1000 watt lights


Very true... But the biggest fuck up is the fact there ratios are rong in there bottled and when mixed right 
at even half strenth can burn the piss out of your shit! Bad npk ratios


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## GreenMountain71 (Nov 29, 2012)

Hey guy I've been reading through the post and I've been doing ebb &flo for a while now! I use a 4x4 table for veg and a ebb monster for flowering. I using air pots with a air stone in every bucket and res. I'm using heads formula tweeked! I try and keep my ph between 5.5 -5.8. I also raise the air pot about 5in. I just filled the system so ill post some picz later!


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 30, 2012)

GreenMountain71 said:


> Hey guy I've been reading through the post and I've been doing ebb &flo for a while now! I use a 4x4 table for veg and a ebb monster for flowering. I using air pots with a air stone in every bucket and res. I'm using heads formula tweeked! I try and keep my ph between 5.5 -5.8. I also raise the air pot about 5in. I just filled the system so ill post some picz later!


You should set your ph at 5.6 and let it drift to 6.0 before re-adjusting to 5.6 again. Allows the plant to feed on 
different micro nutrients thoughout the ph scale!


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## HomeLessBeans (Nov 30, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Very true... But the biggest fuck up is the fact there ratios are rong in there bottled and when mixed right
> at even half strenth can burn the piss out of your shit! Bad npk ratios


Or the biggest "fuck-up" is big Mike?


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## hellraizer30 (Nov 30, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> Or the biggest "fuck-up" is big Mike?



That to...........


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## HomeLessBeans (Nov 30, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> That to...........


 Connisuere(Sp?) and a local hydro store did more damage locally than any garden pest or mold. Mix that shit lite. Same EC as Sensi and you will fry your room.


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## GreenMountain71 (Dec 1, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> You should set your ph at 5.6 and let it drift to 6.0 before re-adjusting to 5.6 again. Allows the plant to feed on
> different micro nutrients thoughout the ph scale!


 After I fill my res with my mix the ph is 5.4 to 5.5 and after 6 to 10 days she goes up to 5.8 to 5.9 then change. I don't like to use ph up and down unless I really have to. Every 15 to 20 days I flush whole system with floral clean. Yeah its a pain in the butt, but keeps problems to the mininum. This is only my 2nd run in the monster. Using coco ,hydostone mix. I read in some forum member using ebb & gro and would never change res through out the whole grow. Just add and top off. Just seems like there would be some root problems. What do you guys think about this? Changing this 50 gallon monster res and the 50 gallon table res every week is a pain.


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## GreenDyl (Dec 1, 2012)

I think people burning their plants has a lot to do with strain. I have 12 plants going and 3 are light feeders while the other 9 are heavy feeders. Running 1250 ppm and am just barely getting nute burn on the light feeders. I've only used Fox farm nutes so the results thus far are like day and night lol


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 2, 2012)

GreenDyl said:


> I think people burning their plants has a lot to do with strain. I have 12 plants going and 3 are light feeders while the other 9 are heavy feeders. Running 1250 ppm and am just barely getting nute burn on the light feeders. I've only used Fox farm nutes so the results thus far are like day and night lol


This i would agree! But for a person thats well aware of his genetics i would say no


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## BUdbuddysmile (Dec 4, 2012)

I have switched from Sensi to Conni a few times and I always come back to Sensi. It comes down to what type of gardener you are. If you can read your plants well and you check PPM, Conni has its advantages for sure. I am most consistent with Sensi and its more forgiving. When I run Conni I run it a quarter strength less than I would run Sensi. (I don't run Sensi past 3/4) I also back off my additives at the same ratio. I hate when people blame a nutrient for burning their plants. Using a new nutrient takes some time to get dialed in. The nutrient didn't burn your plant, you just need to use it correctly. Its a shame that pretty much every line out there would burn your plant at full recommended strength. Everyone should be quick to learn that you can always feed more, but you can't take away note burn once you have it. It is a long healing process lol. I try not to give my opinion on a nutrient until I have used it a few times. So, my 2 cents on Conni&#8230; if you dial it in, I have seen great results and you run it at most, like half strength mid flower&#8230; so all in all you are not paying much more if any more for it. If you want something more user friendly, Sensi.


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## GreenDyl (Dec 4, 2012)

Yeah I'm deff loving the results of sensi so far. Getting pumped for these lemon skunk to start putting on weight. Starting week six today. I think for my next grow I will use only 8 pots instead of 12. Kinda wanna set up a small closet grow and fuck around with organics/Ceramic metal halides/autoflowers/scrogging.


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## Hiker (Dec 6, 2012)

I finally got through all 290 pages!!! 

Lot's of great info here. Thanks to all that have been contributing and answering questions.

I'm starting a grow with an Ebb & Grow system, so this thread is full of valuable knowledge. I have 24 buckets going into a 12'x5.5' basement flowering room with 3 750W HPS in large AAW knockoffs.

24 seeds were germinated last week, and 23 sprouted. I'm not a fan of feminized seeds, so most are regular (minus a couple freebies I'm using up). This means I'll only be flowering 12-15 plants. I'm aware that I will have to deal with the issues related to running multiple strains, but I knew that going in. I'm not planning to use the flowering room for a perpetual system. I like to harvest a whole room, clean everything, and then start it again fresh. I also don't think a flush is necessary, so having the strains finish at different times will be OK. Obviously I won't be able to maximize the strains that are hungry for nutes or risk burning the light feeders. That's OK with me too. This first run is primarily to select some mothers and dial in the grow room. I've been taking lots of pictures in case I want to start a journal, but I'm not sure I will yet.

Growing pot appears to be a lot like religion. Everyone's beliefs are a little different and we're all passionate about them!  I thought it was funny when certain posters would get into heated arguments. Haven't we all heard the saying about arguing on the internet?  Disagreement is healthy, but when it turns into insults and name calling, it reflects poorly on all parties involved. 

Thanks again for all the great info everyone. If I start a journal I'll come back and share the link. Keep it green above and white below everyone.


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## BUdbuddysmile (Dec 6, 2012)

I had issues both times I ran different strains. I would not advise, lol. It sounds like you are going for it, so best of luck to you. I got lockout twice when I ran multiple strains. If the strains feed at a similar rate it would be fine, but if you have one that feeds heavy and one feeds light you inevitably get a little burn and a little under feeding. So I sat there frustrating bc I burnt half and ansy about the ones that weren't getting fed enough. After this run I would stick with one strain especially if your new to hydro. It will eliminate variables. Best of luck, Im sure you'll be alright.


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## Hiker (Dec 7, 2012)

BUdbuddysmile said:


> I had issues both times I ran different strains. I would not advise, lol. It sounds like you are going for it, so best of luck to you. I got lockout twice when I ran multiple strains. If the strains feed at a similar rate it would be fine, but if you have one that feeds heavy and one feeds light you inevitably get a little burn and a little under feeding. So I sat there frustrating bc I burnt half and ansy about the ones that weren't getting fed enough. After this run I would stick with one strain especially if your new to hydro. It will eliminate variables. Best of luck, Im sure you'll be alright.


Thanks Budbuddy. It's a new room, but not my first time at the circus.  I used to grow down in San Diego back in the 90s, so I have some hydro experience including the CAP bucket system.

I think I have a handle on the issues related to flowering multiple strains. You're right, I risk burning the light feeders if I try to adjust the soup for the heavy feeders. I'll just accept a slightly reduced yield on the heavy feeders and aim for no nute burn on the light feeders. At least that's the plan. The very first crop I was involved with, using the ebb & grow, was a batch from seeds of several strains. We did fine. I do appreciate the warning though! 

I'm already committed to the multiple strains. I'm not expecting a stellar first crop. Again, the goal of this first batch will be to select mothers. I suspect I will be doing a second seed batch after this first one just because I won't have big enough mothers to provide a lot of clones by the time the room is ready. This is a good thing though. I'm get a second batch of potential mothers this way!

I am planning to have a second flowering room in the basement as well. My plan is to try to match up some strains with similar nute requirements and flowering times then put them together in the 2 flowering rooms. I'm anticipating having about 4 mothers, so there would be 2 strains in each flowering room. I may also just add another reservoir to the flowering rooms to give me more flexibility to run varied strains and have different age plants in the room (although my preference will always be to harvest whole rooms). We will see. One step at a time. 

BTW, yesterday was a very special day here in WA. Anyone else celebrate? 12/6/12 is a date to remember for sure!


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## match box (Dec 7, 2012)

I ran 7 strains and it is a pain in the butt. I was looking for mothers also. The next grow will be one strain. Space Dog. Good luck. match


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## HomeLessBeans (Dec 7, 2012)

match box said:


> I ran 7 strains and it is a pain in the butt. I was looking for mothers also. The next grow will be one strain. Space Dog. Good luck. match


26 strains ATM..


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## TheMan13 (Dec 7, 2012)

HomeLessBeans said:


> 26 strains ATM..


I'd like to see that list


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## HomeLessBeans (Dec 7, 2012)

RD... Faceoff affy,poison affy, tang TW haze, GTH#1,Ox,tester#1,karmasbitch

Homeless.. Sexhead,nl5,WW,northernboss,

GHMS testers. #1,2,3,4,5,6

Cabin fever... Alexander OG 

Misc..TW , bubba, blueberry haze, OG pk,imperial haze


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## HomeLessBeans (Dec 7, 2012)

Off the top of my head  I'm missin a couple I'm sure 


Hey caregiver services requires that i do it this way.


Crackin 12 more as we speak. 2 for glad tho!!! Not sure if those count


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## TheMan13 (Dec 7, 2012)

Oh my, I was just yanking your chain brother 

I'm currently in the process of dropping some KarmaBitch myself. Any words of advice?


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## HomeLessBeans (Dec 7, 2012)

She is a leggy gurl. I'm not a fan of all the topping an stuff (no time) but with her I do. Seed run I would at least top once. Clones easy. In flower she steps right up to the lights opening up for the buds to get the light. 
Nutes I run at about 1000 ppm (1.2-1.4 EC) took em like a champ I think she would hav liked more N early.

60-65 days for cloudy. 70-75 for amber

And the smell is so nice,it needs a poet to truly describe. Light citrus flower??


Enjoy 

Tasty errl


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## givememeganja (Dec 7, 2012)

what are most people running, the reg version 2 gallon or the monsters these days?


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## GreenMountain71 (Dec 9, 2012)

heres a few pics of my girls. the 2 little ones are sour bubble and sour bubble x galadieselView attachment 2435935View attachment 2435938View attachment 2435936View attachment 2435937


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## Heineken206 (Dec 24, 2012)

Whoo! Just finished reading all 291 pages. I just got the standard 2gal Ebb & Gro. This is my first real hydro project; some experience dirt farming but I'm building a room and want to keep it clean. Plus i have classes and work to deal with so an automated system is def a plus.

I have a 6x12 room with a 4x8 tent. Have 15 clones coming in the next few days (8 strains) mixed sativa and indica and my plan is to find out which works best in the system and available space. Next crop I'll keep it simple with just a couple well matched strains. I'm a legal card holder so I decided to keep it to 15 (WA state law) at the moment.

I have 15 buckets (5 rows of 3) going in a 4x8 tent with the res. and control bucket going in the corner of the room outside the tent in a 2ft wide walkway. Inside the tent I have a 1kw inside an 8in hood off-center to cover 3 rows and a 400w covering the other 2rows.

I welcome advise from anyone with experience using this system.


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## NoxMetus (Jan 8, 2013)

I've also made it through all 291 pages of this thread. I just wanted to state, as many have made inquiries into the Sentinel Ebb & Flow, that I plan on purchasing and starting my first grow with it in the next few weeks. Since the Sentinel only comes with 6 buckets to start, that's all I'll be starting out with. They'll be in a 5x5 space under 1000w. When I make the purchases of all my equipment in the next month, I'll post a link here to my journal where I'll hopefully be able to provide some insight into the Sentinel, and get some help as a new grower. 

Thanks to everyone that has contributed information into ebb & grow systems in this thread.


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## Hiker (Jan 8, 2013)

givememeganja said:


> what are most people running, the reg version 2 gallon or the monsters these days?


I'm running the standard version, except I added 2 expansion to get to 24 buckets.



Heineken206 said:


> Whoo! Just finished reading all 291 pages. I just got the standard 2gal Ebb & Gro. This is my first real hydro project; some experience dirt farming but I'm building a room and want to keep it clean. Plus i have classes and work to deal with so an automated system is def a plus.
> 
> I have a 6x12 room with a 4x8 tent. Have 15 clones coming in the next few days (8 strains) mixed sativa and indica and my plan is to find out which works best in the system and available space. Next crop I'll keep it simple with just a couple well matched strains. I'm a legal card holder so I decided to keep it to 15 (WA state law) at the moment.
> 
> ...


Are you planning to LST or SCROG or something? 15 plants will fill that space pretty well without too much veg, but I bet a little LST will help it to fill out nicely. Are you planning to start a journal so we can see pics?

/rant on
I'm in WA too, but I'm already over the 15 plant limit. People who make laws about MJ just shouldn't do it. They have no clue. Of course I think all the laws concerning MJ should be abolished, so... 

/rant off

OK I feel better 



NoxMetus said:


> I've also made it through all 291 pages of this thread. I just wanted to state, as many have made inquiries into the Sentinel Ebb & Flow, that I plan on purchasing and starting my first grow with it in the next few weeks. Since the Sentinel only comes with 6 buckets to start, that's all I'll be starting out with. They'll be in a 5x5 space under 1000w. When I make the purchases of all my equipment in the next month, I'll post a link here to my journal where I'll hopefully be able to provide some insight into the Sentinel, and get some help as a new grower.
> 
> Thanks to everyone that has contributed information into ebb & grow systems in this thread.


Looking forward to seeing your pics!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a question for my fellow Ebb & Gro users...

When removing the inner bucket, has anyone built/devised a way to set the plants down without damaging the roots?

I had an idea of using 2 long 2x4s on edge. I would space them apart just wide enough to catch the lip on the buckets. One concern I had was the middle might bow out and the bucket could fall. I guess I could put some cross braces at the same spacing so there are 'square' holes for the plant buckets. Originally I thought I might cut circle holes into the lids of some 5g buckets. I can still do that, but looking for other ideas.

I want it to be something that I can "put away" when I'm not using it. I know my basement provides a lot more space than many others have, but there will be much less "extra" space once the second flowering room, mother room, clone/veg area, and curing cabinet are all in place. Maybe I should just go buy more 5g buckets and lids. Ideally I need space for 22 plants for this grow. This way I can clean out the whole system with no plants in it. I also thought about ordering a bunch of CAP lower buckets, but I think the 5G buckets from Walmart are cheaper.

What does everyone else do when they need to set the inner bucket down while a plant is growing roots out the bottom?


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## givememeganja (Jan 8, 2013)

Just buy a extra outer bucket.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 9, 2013)

givememeganja said:


> Just buy a extra outer bucket.


2nd this................


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 9, 2013)

Any bucket will work. Hav water in it.

Because of my injuries I can no longer 'pull pots' on a capcom system. I pull the hose off and move both pots to the next station.

One of the many reasons the titian is a better system.


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## Hiker (Jan 9, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> One of the many reasons the titian is a better system.


What is the reason?


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 9, 2013)

Hiker said:


> What is the reason?


 Ease of pulling pots.


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## BLOCKER (Jan 9, 2013)

anyone have trouble with roots growing in feed lines and blocking them?, how do you deal with this?


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 9, 2013)

BLOCKER said:


> anyone have trouble with roots growing in feed lines and blocking them?, how do you deal with this?


 never been a problem. pull the pot and cut off the excess if it is.


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## Hiker (Jan 9, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> Ease of pulling pots.


I just watched the Titan setup video and I don't see a difference between that system and the Ebb & Gro. Obviously the buckets are different, but this system appears to be the same design as the C.A.P. system. What makes these buckets easier to pull out?


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 9, 2013)

Hiker said:


> I just watched the Titan setup video and I don't see a difference between that system and the Ebb & Gro. Obviously the buckets are different, but this system appears to be the same design as the C.A.P. system. What makes these buckets easier to pull out?


 the obvious part must not be so obvious I guess. 

The cap buckets fit tight. It can take both feet and both hands to pull. Especially if there is a vacuum. The titian inner pot is smaller. The sides don't touch. A quick snap and out comes the inner net pot. 
The titian is a better system. This is my business. I own several caps. And service both. The titian is hands down better period.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 9, 2013)

Hiker said:


> I just watched the Titan setup video and I don't see a difference between that system and the Ebb & Gro. Obviously the buckets are different, but this system appears to be the same design as the C.A.P. system. What makes these buckets easier to pull out?


Titan is better! 3/4 lines and the inner bucket is a net pot allowing better root growth! And makes pulling the inner out
and placing back in simple. Also caps control box electronics are made in china and the titan is solid state made in germany!
i dont know about you but im not a fan of china made so that leaves titan


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 9, 2013)

And the titan can expand to 18 4gallon sites on the same res. Where cap monster can't or you get the 2gallon sites.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 10, 2013)

Hey hellraiser n warlock? Have you ever had the pleasure of dealing with capcom directly?? I thought I would save the local hydro store the trouble returning a controll pot. (client was a real askhole pain in the ass). Wow, had to go thru 2-3 dumb bitches. You hav to return the controll pot and wait for them to send another. The DB's could not grasp why that would even be a problem in a running system. It was cheaper and easier just to keep buyin cheap pumps when they get trashed.

Titian hands down a better system. I have no idea about thier customer service. Never had a single problem.


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## Hiker (Jan 10, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> the obvious part must not be so obvious I guess.
> 
> The cap buckets fit tight. It can take both feet and both hands to pull. Especially if there is a vacuum. The titian inner pot is smaller. The sides don't touch. A quick snap and out comes the inner net pot.
> The titian is a better system. This is my business. I own several caps. And service both. The titian is hands down better period.


Thanks for clarifying. I guess I would have to experience them for myself in order to appreciate the differences.



hellraizer30 said:


> Titan is better! 3/4 lines and the inner bucket is a net pot allowing better root growth! And makes pulling the inner out
> and placing back in simple. Also caps control box electronics are made in china and the titan is solid state made in germany!
> i dont know about you but im not a fan of china made so that leaves titan


How does the netpot make the root growth better? Seems to me, they would still mat up around the edges, but now all those roots would be between the outer bucket and the net pot. Wouldn't that make it much more difficult to put the netpot back into the outer bucket? With the CAP system, all the roots are on the bottom, so I think it would be easier to put the inner bucket back into the outer. I'm not sure I see the advantages of the netpot as an inner bucket. Couldn't you just drill a bunch of holes in the side of the CAP inner buckets to achieve the same result?



Warlock1369 said:


> And the titan can expand to 18 4gallon sites on the same res. Where cap monster can't or you get the 2gallon sites.


I have no experience with the Monster version of the system, but I don't see why you couldn't expand any of these systems as large as you want. You may have to add additional reservoirs and/or increase the number of output circuits on the brain buckets, but you could do it. I did consider the monster system when I bought my Ebb & Gro, but I don't think the 5 gallon sites are necessary. I never had any issues with the smaller sites when I used this system in the 90's, so I don't see why that would change now. IMHO, the smaller sites have an advantage of allowing for more sites on a smaller reservoir. Of course, I plan to run this room as a SOG hybrid of sorts (instead of one main cola, I'll top them in veg and grow 4 colas per plant), so my plants really won't be in the buckets long enough to need 5g.


I do appreciate all the feedback. Perhaps I will buy a Titan system for my second flowering room. I had been leaning more towards building my own system, but in the interest of time, I like the idea of buying something ready to go.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 10, 2013)

Hiker said:


> Thanks for clarifying. I guess I would have to experience them for myself in order to appreciate the differences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


or? pull one of yours is it easy? no

the reasons that the net pot produces mobetter roots is do to many factors ie..air flow,moisture retention, out gassing, nute up-take,root structure even

any system is tweekable..some are just more worth your time to do.
'
I've built and still build systems. my personal choice would be a titian. the posters above are both hydro masters. all of us agree the titian is better..so 'perhaps' you should


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 10, 2013)

True any system can be made to expand to any size. With ether more res or Brian buckets. Both of them have a draw back. More res tanks you have to find a way to keep the water moving thru each of them, and if you have to do a flush Cruz something happened you lost money on all that nutes. Adding brains is a real pain in later flower because you have to add a lot of water and nutes daily. 

Cap is a OK system just font like the cheap China controls. And the buckets sticking. Titan has some corners that can be hard to clean. And smaller buckets arnt avalible. 

If you are going to always keep the plants around 2-3 foot tall max 2 gallon pots are fine. But if you want larger like 3-6 footers you will need the 4 or 5 gallon buckets. 

Making your own is a option. But take your time in doing it. In this thread and the ( do and don't Webb and flow) thread there are a lot of ideas of how and what to do. But I liked the idea of just getting one. For 700 I hit the titan with the 6 site add on. 200L of grow media is needed for that. And the fabric liners if you want coco. Ether way enjoy and happy growing


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## georgeforeman (Jan 11, 2013)

BLOCKER said:


> anyone have trouble with roots growing in feed lines and blocking them?, how do you deal with this?


first time i grew in ebb and grow i lost a plant because i had no idea what was going on. Now i pull the tees/elbows out of the buckets every 2 weeks to cut off roots. It is part of my schedule now.


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## Hiker (Jan 11, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> or? pull one of yours is it easy? no


I think I understand the point you're trying to make. You're saying that, for the Ebb & Gro, the inner buckets 'stick' in the outer buckets, right? 

I had not really noticed that, but after you brought it up, I guess the outer buckets do seem to lift up sometimes when I am removing the inner. It's not been a problem so far in this grow, and I don't recall it being an issue when I an Ebb & Gro back in the 90's.



HomeLessBeans said:


> the reasons that the net pot produces mobetter roots is do to many factors ie..air flow,moisture retention, out gassing, nute up-take,root structure even


I'm skeptical about some of the advantages you're claiming. I'm sure the net pots will affect the structure of the root mass (this difference being the potential issue I mentioned above), but I don't really see how it will impact the other items you listed. Since I lack the experience you have with the Titan system, until I can compare them myself, I'll just have to suspend forming an opinion regarding the advantages of a net pot. I think there are net pots available that will fit inside the outer buckets. If I can find some, I will do a test in my next batch.



HomeLessBeans said:


> any system is tweekable..some are just more worth your time to do.
> 
> I've built and still build systems. my personal choice would be a titian. the posters above are both hydro masters. all of us agree the titian is better..so 'perhaps' you should


I mean no disrespect to yourself, or anyone else, by questioning things. I'm just a very inquisitive and logical person. While I don't consider myself a newbie to growing, it has been awhile and I am not an expert. That being said, I will not adopt a belief based on who else holds that belief. If that belief is based in logic, and that logic is explained to me, then I may adopt that belief myself.

When I was a kid, "because I said so" never worked with me. My poor mother used to get frustrated because I always wanted to know "why?" 



Warlock1369 said:


> True any system can be made to expand to any size. With ether more res or Brian buckets. Both of them have a draw back. More res tanks you have to find a way to keep the water moving thru each of them, and if you have to do a flush Cruz something happened you lost money on all that nutes. Adding brains is a real pain in later flower because you have to add a lot of water and nutes daily.
> 
> Cap is a OK system just font like the cheap China controls. And the buckets sticking. Titan has some corners that can be hard to clean. And smaller buckets arnt avalible.
> 
> ...


It's not real likely I will DIY a bucket system anytime soon. Right now, the time savings are worth much more to me than the cost of a pre-built system. I do like the idea though. I am definitely a 'DIY type' of person.


I certainly hope none of this comes across as argumentative or disrespectful. I learn a lot from what people post on these forums and really appreciate all the valuable experience others share.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 11, 2013)

Good luck...


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 11, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> Good luck...


What im saying! You can bring a horse to water but you cant make it drink lol


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 11, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> What im saying! You can bring a horse to water but you cant make it drink lol


In 2 threads alone there is almost 4000 posts on all this. If reading them is to much work growing will be too.


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 12, 2013)

Hiker said:


> I think I understand the point you're trying to make. You're saying that, for the Ebb & Gro, the inner buckets 'stick' in the outer buckets, right?
> 
> I had not really noticed that, but after you brought it up, I guess the outer buckets do seem to lift up sometimes when I am removing the inner. It's not been a problem so far in this grow, and I don't recall it being an issue when I an Ebb & Gro back in the 90'
> 
> ...


last try

you must have two good arms. both feet and both hands/arms are need to pull a capcom..not so with a ttiian.

As far as your skeptisim? lean how roots grow. learn which roots up-take nutes. learn about de-gassing...then we can talk..you don't just lack experience with a titian you lack experience and knowledge with the whole ebb and flo process.


as far as disrespect? not a problem..your explaination about your mother helped me identfy your disorder..when someone with decades of actual experience tells you shit runs downhill..I'll find some high ground

I would wager a bet that several of ''us'' have read your thread but refrain from tryin to help....ask your self "why should bother"..

sorry if any of that comes off as disrespectful....


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## GreenMountain71 (Jan 13, 2013)

I'm doing a test with the cap (2) 5 gallon monster buckets and (3)3 gallon airpots and smart pots in the 5 gallon buckets with air stone in each bucket. In airpots and smartpot growth is crazy. I'll try to post picz from my phone















using hydrostone/cocoa mix


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## alcohol (Jan 15, 2013)

4000 posts and at least half of them are garbage. I wish there was a more organized thread with just facts, ideas and concepts. What are people doing/using and what is working well?

I run two Titan flo n gro systems with expansion pots and love the simplicity of it. This is my first hydro system besides DWC bubble buckets.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 15, 2013)

alcohol said:


> 4000 posts and at least half of them are garbage. I wish there was a more organized thread with just facts, ideas and concepts. What are people doing/using and what is working well?
> 
> I run two Titan flo n gro systems with expansion pots and love the simplicity of it. This is my first hydro system besides DWC bubble buckets.


Wish there was!


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jan 19, 2013)

nvm............


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## georgeforeman (Jan 19, 2013)

alcohol said:


> 4000 posts and at least half of them are garbage. I wish there was a more organized thread with just facts, ideas and concepts. What are people doing/using and what is working well?
> 
> I run two Titan flo n gro systems with expansion pots and love the simplicity of it. This is my first hydro system besides DWC bubble buckets.


but then you would not learn the reason behind all those facts, idea, and concepts. Sure you might be able to simply copy/repeat what you read, but there are too many variables and when they start working against you, that missing knowledge and troubleshooting will come in handy. bn4er56


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jan 21, 2013)

Hey guys, been lurking on this forum for quite a while now. Figured it was time to sign up and join the convo. Ive been growing for a few years with good success in soil but am making a move to hydro. . .pretty much from curiosity. Im gonna be starting my system soon and am wondering if you guys would be able to take a look at what ill be running and point out any problems I might have. 

- 6x9 room in a heated basement covered in mylar
- 2 Vipar A300 LED Grow lights
-18 pot EBB and Gro system
-jacks 15-12-26 plus calcium nitrae 15-0-0 for veg
-jacks bloom booster 10-30-20 plus calcium nitrate for bud
-also using h202

I will be starting in rockwool cubes till ready to put into the buckets.
Well thats my basic set up, Id really appreciate some feed back from people who have used these products. Thanks alot.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

10thPlanetjj said:


> Hey guys, been lurking on this forum for quite a while now. Figured it was time to sign up and join the convo. Ive been growing for a few years with good success in soil but am making a move to hydro. . .pretty much from curiosity. Im gonna be starting my system soon and am wondering if you guys would be able to take a look at what ill be running and point out any problems I might have.
> 
> - 6x9 room in a heated basement covered in mylar
> - 2 Vipar A300 LED Grow lights
> ...



The led are not going to get you the yield in this system that it could with better lighting!
2nd would be your nutes your going to be running.


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jan 21, 2013)

Id really like to give LED lighting a shot. I know some guys are just plain agianst them but i know alot of people with poositive reviews. They should still work alright though correct? And as far as nutes what do you suggest? tweaking it a bit or a completely different system? And if so what to use exactly. Maybe something relatively simple for my first run


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

10thPlanetjj said:


> Id really like to give LED lighting a shot. I know some guys are just plain agianst them but i know alot of people with poositive reviews. They should still work alright though correct? And as far as nutes what do you suggest? tweaking it a bit or a completely different system? And if so what to use exactly. Maybe something relatively simple for my first run


For a first timer to hydro i alway rec technoflora bc line of nutes, super simple and cost effective!
it sounds like you already have the led lighting so you might aswell use them. Good luck and if 
you need help just hit me up anytime


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jan 21, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> For a first timer to hydro i alway rec technoflora bc line of nutes, super simple and cost effective!
> it sounds like you already have the led lighting so you might aswell use them. Good luck and if
> you need help just hit me up anytime


Thanks for the advice. I dont actually have the lights yet, I was just hoping to get away from hps for a few different reasons. As far as LEDs go Ive done a shitload of research and the vipar a300s are what I landed on. Are you familiar with using LEDs eith this system or is there anyone that does?. . .with success


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

These systems grow trees with huge canopys! Needing good lighting. I myseft never jumped into led, everbody i see or 
know that have were sorry! I have seen killer t-5 grows over these setups, that might be a better choice and cheeper.


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jan 21, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> These systems grow trees with huge canopys! Needing good lighting. I myseft never jumped into led, everbody i see or
> know that have were sorry! I have seen killer t-5 grows over these setups, that might be a better choice and cheeper.


The t-5 set up looks like an interesting alternative. can't seem to find a thread on here about it tho. Could you point me in the right direction as far as specs go? like watts/coverage things like that


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

10thPlanetjj said:


> The t-5 set up looks like an interesting alternative. can't seem to find a thread on here about it tho. Could you point me in the right direction as far as specs go? like watts/coverage things like that


I have run pannels start to finish with t-5, look to hydrofarms 8tube 4ft. Pannels there about 350 watts each. Pannels
are 2 1/2 x 4


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jan 21, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> I have run pannels start to finish with t-5, look to hydrofarms 8tube 4ft. Pannels there about 350 watts each. Pannels
> are 2 1/2 x 4


That seems too be the controversy; whether you can grow from start to finish. Are there different bulbs that I should get for veg and bloom? Is the coverage pretty much the dimensions of the light since you put them so close?


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

Coverage would be close to what led putout but with better penetration! And yes the foot print is about the size of
the light, maybe a tad bigger! Theres bloom bulbs and veg bulbs, there cheap and last forever lol


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## drgreentm (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm interested in the reason for wanting to drop hps lighting? I wouldn't give up my hps's unless I gave up growing need good lighting to grow quality product with good yields.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

I think theres more to it other than just not wanting to run hids, i tryed to tell him lol


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 21, 2013)

Hay HR. Speaking of nutes. Ive switched to the full line of heavy 16. In week 6 of flower almost 2200ppm. No burn. Running pro level. Hot damn in loving it. Just wouldn't tell a noob to run pro.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

Warlock1369 said:


> Hay HR. Speaking of nutes. Ive switched to the full line of heavy 16. In week 6 of flower almost 2200ppm. No burn. Running pro level. Hot damn in loving it. Just wouldn't tell a noob to run pro.


2200  wow!

are they just rocking the room or what

theres a dude on icmag thats says hes running 3000 :/


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## drgreentm (Jan 21, 2013)

Just switched to the DM gold line with potash+ adative, sitting at 1500 on week 2 flower. 2200 now that's crazy lol sure they look good


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 21, 2013)

If you know master kush indoor. These are massive for week 6.










Didn't mean to jack the thread. But I know you have been looking into H16.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 22, 2013)

Warlock1369 said:


> If you know master kush indoor. These are massive for week 6.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Man they look good for 2200, wonder how long you can push like that before you get a salt buildup! You
doing a mid flush or bi weekly flush?


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 22, 2013)

Only did a system rinse at week 4.


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## Sencha (Jan 22, 2013)

Hey guys (warlock and hellraizer). I'm just looking for some quick lazy answers to a couple questions. 

I've seen some mention of 5 gallon sites for growing larger plants. In your experiences, are 2-1k HPS lights good enough for 12 sites at two gallons? Does growing larger plants seem more efficient? How do the 5 gallon sites affect your lighting?

Thanks in advance.


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 22, 2013)

I just changed up my lights.picked up a light rail and removed the 600w. So now I'm only running 2 1000w in the flower room of 15 plants. Bucket size doesn't change light. Just makes a larger area. And 6 plants under a 1000w is great. 3-5 footers all day.


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## Sencha (Jan 22, 2013)

Love it dude! Stay cool.


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## GreenDyl (Jan 22, 2013)

Warlock I am about to pick up the pro line of h16 after seeing your results. I had been debating it because I still have like half of my AN stuff left but from everything I have heard H16 is amazing. Exactly what products are you using from them and other companies? Another thing I am wondering is if i had the brown slime how should I go about disinfecting everything to make sure I don't get it again. So far I am using steel wool pads to scrub all the buckets down with regular dawn dish soap. Then I am going to put all the buckets in 1 by 1 into the rez full of water and physan 20... an extremely heavy dose. Hoping this will be good enough cause I do not want to run heisenbergs tea again due to the fact its so much extra work and smells up my bedroom. One last thing, how soon can you start using h2o2 in your rez? my clones are still in solo cups with rockwool.


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm using the full line. Base and prime in veg. Base, prime and fire in flower. I'm also using a 0-50-30 bloom booster. But I wouldn't advise you to go to the pro to start. Use the light or heavy first. Findout how your plants grow with it first. Then you can go to the pro. That way you can watch and see if you need to back off on anything. If your burning back down. If you don't see a difference from heavy to pro. Back down your wasting money. And buy prime as big as you can. On the heavy16 site you give your res size and everything is there. And you can order your full grow needs in 1 shot. I have 3 different sizes and stages. So this helps. 

Don't use steel wool on anything! You will put scratches that can never be cleaned. A brush and sponge is all you need. After scrubbing everything steralize everything for a day. Then rinse and start growing.

I'm not a H2O2 guy anymore. Fully organic tea. But you can use it from the start. Just font over do the ppm.


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## GreenDyl (Jan 22, 2013)

Well sheeeittt. Already cleaned the inner pots with steel wool lol. Should I just go grab a whole new system and try and craigslist mine? I feel like the pathogen could be locked in the plastic.


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 22, 2013)

No. Just don't do it again. If you have problems later and can't get rid of it. That could be the reason. But if you keep everything clean you shouldn't have a problem.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 22, 2013)

Solid info warlock! When i clean my bucket i use a toilet bowl scrubber


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 22, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Solid info warlock! When i clean my bucket i use a toilet bowl scrubber


Same here. Sits on my co2 tank for easy grab. Lol.


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 22, 2013)

GreenDyl said:


> Well sheeeittt. Already cleaned the inner pots with steel wool lol. Should I just go grab a whole new system and try and craigslist mine? I feel like the pathogen could be locked in the plastic.


Also your buckets should be made if food grade plastic. Not letting pathogens embed themselves like in other plastics. Reason I try to change all hose and fittings after 2 grows. That and they're impossible to fully clean.


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jan 22, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> I'm interested in the reason for wanting to drop hps lighting? I wouldn't give up my hps's unless I gave up growing need good lighting to grow quality product with good yields.


There was a couple reasons for wanting to try something different. Mainly I was just curious about trying a new system, thats why I ordered the ebb and grow. The LEDs attracted me because of the low thermal footprint and energy savings. And I have seen people get good results with them. 
I think Im going to just run the Ebb and Grow since its my first serious hydroponic attempt and run hids, just try one thing at a time. Plus Id like to get all I can out of the system. I have two 600w , Is that enough to start 18 and end up with 10 to 15? I feel like it might not be, what would suffice?


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## GreenDyl (Jan 22, 2013)

I really am thinking about just getting a whole new system just because this one I bought used. Its the cap ebb and gro idk if thats foodgrade plastic or not.


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## GreenDyl (Jan 22, 2013)

And I really want to just have good grow with no problems this time so maybe it would be worth spending the 500 for the full system


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 22, 2013)

If your going to get a full system I recamend titan. So worth it. And can easily be made a full coco system if you want to try that.


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## GreenDyl (Jan 22, 2013)

which one?


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 22, 2013)

http://www.titancontrols.net/products/grow-systems/flo-n-gro-system.aspx

That one. Its the one I use now and so easy.


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## GreenDyl (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah I think I am gonna just say fuck it and go with heavy 16 and end up getting one of those systems. Buying a used system on craigslist seems like it kinda fucked me over.


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 22, 2013)

Sorry to hear that. But yes new systems are great. And theyTitan is a nice plug and play one.


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jan 23, 2013)

Got a quick question about topping of the res. As I understand it, you need to add water periodically as it evaporates and gets used up. Do you add all your nutrients in a fresh resivoir to start then just add straight water and just correct the ph after if needed, until you change out the res again? If so does that mean the nutrient ppm's will drop as it gets more diluted? A basic schedule would be helpful


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## BLOCKER (Jan 23, 2013)

when i top up i add nutes too, i also don't change res doing that way because the water is well replenished every week


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## Hygrotek (Jan 23, 2013)

GreenDyl said:


> which one?


I've used Ebb & Grow, Aquahub version of these systems but had a variety of issues so I invented my own that you can set the exact minutes. Its called "Set and Grow" and it even powers-up with 4 hours between fill cycles and 20 minutes fill time (4:20) but set it for any time, check out the link- best of all NO FLOAT SWITCHES! This forum is a great resource and I wanted to contribute back to it. Thanks and keep up the good work. I'll keep you posted on how it goes. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1898348286/set-and-grow?ref=home_location


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 23, 2013)

I top off with just water for the week. Ppm drops but not to low. And adjust nutes weekly


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 25, 2013)

This is why I have never felt the need for the "monster" ebb n flo.. this gurl is prob over 7 feet tall in a 2 gallon pot....all that with my pet gnats campin out..


I gotta get a better pic of the emergency tripod


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## BLOCKER (Jan 25, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> This is why I have never felt the need for the "monster" ebb n flo.. this gurl is prob over 7 feet tall in a 2 gallon pot....all that with my pet gnats campin out..
> 
> 
> I gotta get a better pic of the emergency tripod


 any problems with roots blocking the pipes?


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## HomeLessBeans (Jan 25, 2013)

BLOCKER said:


> any problems with roots blocking the pipes?


No sir. Never has been a problem. My pet gnats may keep it from happening.


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## hedrickmonster (Jan 26, 2013)

is there a way to set up two 4x4 tables with one pump ?? I.E. one table fills and there is an outlet through it that drains into another table then out the bottom into a reservoir.


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## tallen (Jan 26, 2013)

hedrickmonster said:


> is there a way to set up two 4x4 tables with one pump ?? I.E. one table fills and there is an outlet through it that drains into another table then out the bottom into a reservoir.


Or just put a tee in the fill line. You'd probably want to make sure the lines going from the tee to the tables are the same length though or it may not fill them evenly.


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## Dr.fillDAblunt420 (Jan 27, 2013)

I just found out that hydroton is no longer being made. Any suggestions on an alternative medium I should use? I was thinking coco but I also saw some stuff that is recycled glass which is a little more expensive. Anyone try the recycled glass and get good results?


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## kr4k3r (Jan 27, 2013)

Ermagaud, no more hydroton!


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## bowlfullofbliss (Jan 27, 2013)

Dr.fillDAblunt420 said:


> I just found out that hydroton is no longer being made. Any suggestions on an alternative medium I should use? I was thinking coco but I also saw some stuff that is recycled glass which is a little more expensive. Anyone try the recycled glass and get good results?


great question and I'm looking into the same thing. the guys at my hydro shop said its no problem to use the big chunky coco in the system, as long as you use a fine mesh strainer. I get them at the paint store for my job, house painter obviously, and am thinking about putting one in the buckets and running the coco.

I hate the expanded clay so much, it would be nice to just fill and flow, and skip the endless washing of 4 bags of hydroton. 

I haven't had time to skim this thread recently, anyone try using coco in the ebb-n-grow?


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## 2Shoes (Jan 27, 2013)

There's a new brand of the Hydroton so it is available again.


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## bowlfullofbliss (Jan 28, 2013)

2Shoes said:


> There's a new brand of the Hydroton so it is available again.


I'm aware, I'm running with it right now. Its different, but seems to be ok, actually more PH stable at the start of the run, I didn't see the big swings for the first week I usually have to deal with.


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## Dr.fillDAblunt420 (Jan 28, 2013)

bowlfullofbliss said:


> I'm aware, I'm running with it right now. Its different, but seems to be ok, actually more PH stable at the start of the run, I didn't see the big swings for the first week I usually have to deal with.


What is the name of the hydroton and where is it available at?


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## 2Shoes (Jan 28, 2013)

They have it at my local grow store. I will check the brand name and post up later this week when I go in for more nutes.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 29, 2013)

hedrickmonster said:


> is there a way to set up two 4x4 tables with one pump ?? I.E. one table fills and there is an outlet through it that drains into another table then out the bottom into a reservoir.



I did x2 4x4 tables off one pump, but it flooded both at the same time! Took a best of a pump though.


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## Sencha (Jan 29, 2013)

B'Cuzz is making the new hydroton, I think. The old company had clay mines that they used up. A new company had already purchased another clay mine knowing the old one was running out. It's a different color now and a bit more stable, due to the mine being newer.


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## jpreal (Feb 10, 2013)

Hello, 
This is my first post in this forum. I was just given a cap ebb n grow by a friend and I'm looking for any advice or tips on this system. I've ran eb n flow tables for yrs but have no experience with these bucket systems, but I've been dying to give one a try. i have 24 sites n as of now the plan is to run four lines out and tee off into each site and loop them into each other on the back ends. I think i have a good idea of how to lay it all out what im really looking for advice on is, is there any mods or anything you guys are doing to get better results? my first thought was to perforate these inner buckets better, and maybe some 3/4 line. thoughts? sorry for asking as im sure this stuff is in this thread but im not about to read 300 pages.


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## HomeLessBeans (Feb 10, 2013)

Put it together as is watch it run. IMHO nothin about adding hose diameter


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## jpreal (Feb 11, 2013)

cool. getting it together over the next couple of days. gotta wash a shit ton of hydroton today, and run to cap n get one of the bucket flappers fixed...ugh!


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## jpreal (Feb 11, 2013)

CAP hooked it up! they replaced all 3 floats and tested the timer for free. dropped it off, went for some subway, came back n it was like new. BOOM!


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 12, 2013)

jpreal said:


> CAP hooked it up! they replaced all 3 floats and tested the timer for free. dropped it off, went for some subway, came back n it was like new. BOOM!


Nice score with that service! Cap must be steping up there game


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## jpreal (Feb 12, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Nice score with that service! Cap must be steping up there game


yeah i'm pretty pumped on it.


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## Hiker (Feb 12, 2013)

jpreal you must live in/near Riverside, CA? I graduated high school in Riverside.


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## joe macclennan (Feb 13, 2013)

jpreal said:


> Hello,
> This is my first post in this forum. I was just given a cap ebb n grow by a friend and I'm looking for any advice or tips on this system. I've ran eb n flow tables for yrs but have no experience with these bucket systems, but I've been dying to give one a try. i have 24 sites n as of now the plan is to run four lines out and tee off into each site and loop them into each other on the back ends. I think i have a good idea of how to lay it all out what im really looking for advice on is, is there any mods or anything you guys are doing to get better results? my first thought was to perforate these inner buckets better, and maybe some 3/4 line. thoughts? sorry for asking as im sure this stuff is in this thread but im not about to read 300 pages.


Bigger hose size means faster to flood, faster to drain. This is always good in hydro. I upgraded my cap to 3/4 Pull out your 1/2 grommets and put 3/4 ebb bulkhead fittings in up to the threads trace around em with a paint pen and carefully cut the larger circle out w/a pair of tin snips. Dremel or rotozip works too but way easier to mess up. 3/4 lines are a great idea IMO. I am not sure what you mean about the inner buckets. I have never seen the cap buckets in person. I use 3 gallon buckets w/10 inch netpots. In fact I am putting a new sys. together now so I can flower my old mums


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## joe macclennan (Feb 13, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> This is why I have never felt the need for the "monster" ebb n flo.. this gurl is prob over 7 feet tall in a 2 gallon pot....all that with my pet gnats campin out..
> 
> 
> I gotta get a better pic of the emergency tripod


Wow nice bro. Any bigger and you could sling a hammock under that sucker.


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## jpreal (Feb 14, 2013)

Hiker said:


> jpreal you must live in/near Riverside, CA? I graduated high school in Riverside.


Im in Socal but Cap moved a few years ago to perris. I didn't know till the other day when i looked online about getting my bucket fixed n was pumped to see they were in driving distance. walk in service was stellar


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## jpreal (Feb 14, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> Bigger hose size means faster to flood, faster to drain. This is always good in hydro. I upgraded my cap to 3/4 Pull out your 1/2 grommets and put 3/4 ebb bulkhead fittings in up to the threads trace around em with a paint pen and carefully cut the larger circle out w/a pair of tin snips. Dremel or rotozip works too but way easier to mess up. 3/4 lines are a great idea IMO. I am not sure what you mean about the inner buckets. I have never seen the cap buckets in person. I use 3 gallon buckets w/10 inch netpots. In fact I am putting a new sys. together now so I can flower my old mums


Thanks man! I already put it all together, mostly. I plan to fire it up this weekend. I threw it together stock just to see what the results look like... then i can have something to judge off of if i make any adjustment or just switch to another system. been eying the titan eb n flo. If i run this system again i'll go up to 3/4 line n spend some time better perforating the inner pots.


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## HomeLessBeans (Feb 14, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> Bigger hose size means faster to flood, faster to drain. This is always good in hydro. I upgraded my cap to 3/4 Pull out your 1/2 grommets and put 3/4 ebb bulkhead fittings in up to the threads trace around em with a paint pen and carefully cut the larger circle out w/a pair of tin snips. Dremel or rotozip works too but way easier to mess up. 3/4 lines are a great idea IMO. I am not sure what you mean about the inner buckets. I have never seen the cap buckets in person. I use 3 gallon buckets w/10 inch netpots. In fact I am putting a new sys. together now so I can flower my old mums


Why is a faster flood and drain better?


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## jpreal (Feb 14, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> Why is a faster flood and drain better?


not speaking from experience obviously but i can see a 24-48 site setup taking awhile to flood n drain. On a smaller system it probably wont mean so much. just my .2


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## HomeLessBeans (Feb 14, 2013)

jpreal said:


> not speaking from experience obviously but i can see a 24-48 site setup taking awhile to flood n drain. On a smaller system it probably wont mean so much. just my .2


 yes. But I am askin what it benifits the plants.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 14, 2013)

I have had both 3/4 upgraded ebb systems and 1/2 and theres no gain in flooding/draining faster!
what i did notice is with 3/4 more water sits in the lines between floods.


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## jpreal (Feb 14, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> I have had both 3/4 upgraded ebb systems and 1/2 and theres no gain in flooding/draining faster!
> what i did notice is with 3/4 more water sits in the lines between floods.


well thats not good! lol


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## georgeforeman (Feb 16, 2013)

A faster fill/drain might be good if you use a low-absorption medium like hydroton and you can lower the fill time to less than 15 minutes.


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## HomeLessBeans (Feb 16, 2013)

georgeforeman said:


> A faster fill/drain might be good if you use a low-absorption medium like hydroton and you can lower the fill time to less than 15 minutes.


 nope. Fill time has no effect... 

My point? Time is money. If you can't see or prove the time you spend makes your plants better it is a waste. Spend that time learnin how and why capillary roots are important.

Ps
A 2 gallon pot of hydroton will take weeks to dry. Not minutes or even days.


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## HomeLessBeans (Feb 18, 2013)

13, 30 gram jars. not countin 2 of the buds at 8 inches or the farf.. 2 gallon un modified capcom ebb n flo

Rare Dankness Walkers Kush


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## nahahaha (Feb 18, 2013)

I posted this on a separate thread as well, but I think it's more appropriate to ask it here. I'm still combing through this massive thread haha, but does anyone know the electrical use of this system?


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## Dr.fillDAblunt420 (Feb 18, 2013)

Can anyone suggest a watering cycle when using Growstone in the ebb monster. I'm used to hydroton and just want to see what is giving everyone the best results. I am currently doing 4 fills in 18 hours.


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## joe macclennan (Feb 21, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> Why is a faster flood and drain better?




Dope does not benefit from being immersed in water for extended periods of time. This is why so many DWC, aeroponic, or ebb systems are fraught with problems. In a standard flood and drain table, rez problems are not generally a problem. Proper drainage is a basic tenet of farming be it dirt or hydro. The idea of a fast filling and draining system, most any system whether it be dirt, flood and drain, ebb, or aero. is or should be strived for. Now that is not to say that you cannot grow in a slower filling/draining system. Or a system where water is laying stagnant. Obviously it is possible but the longer your roots are immersed the more prone to root problems your plants are. So if you can achieve a full flood and drain in less than half an hour it is possible you can flood them more times a day beneficially. Another benefit to running 3/4 lines is you can run fewer main hoses and have more pots connected to less mains and still achieve fast filling/drainage. thereby allowing you to free up valuable floor space that would otherwise be cluttered by a spiderweb of 1/2 inch lines.

Yes as hellraizer pointed out you may very well have more water in your lines tween waterings but if you elevate your pots this can be remedied easily. I raised my buckets 1/2 inch and my lines have less than 1/4 inch of water in em while in drain cycle. I run 10 inch netpots in 2 gallon buckets and flood 15 pots fully in just under 15 minutes. Fed only by three 3/4 main hoses.(each main hose has 5 pots connected to it) The entire flood/drain cycle takes bout 1/2 hour. I just completed my ebb expansion for my mums and I can see that after being placed under 1000w they will benefit from having a second watering a day. I plan on flipping 15 moms every 4-6 weeks. With space for 30 mothers in flower I will have two 15 plant harvests in my room.This will allow me to keep strong vibrant mothers to clone off of and keep two 1000w lights on in flower over my ebb sys as well as keep plenty of 8-12 inch clones for my 8x8 sog.


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## HomeLessBeans (Feb 21, 2013)

nahahaha said:


> I posted this on a separate thread as well, but I think it's more appropriate to ask it here. I'm still combing through this massive thread haha, but does anyone know the electrical use of this system?


do you mean monthy or amps drawn?? both are very little


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## HomeLessBeans (Feb 21, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> Dope does not benefit from being immersed in water for extended periods of time. This is why so many DWC, aeroponic, or ebb systems are fraught with problems. In a standard flood and drain table, rez problems are not generally a problem. Proper drainage is a basic tenant of farming be it dirt or hydro. The idea of a fast filling and draining system, most any system whether it be dirt, flood and drain, ebb, or aero. is or should be strived for. Now that is not to say that you cannot grow in a slower filling/draining system. Or a system where water is laying stagnant. Obviously it is possible but the longer your roots are immersed the more prone to root problems your plants are. So if you can achieve a full flood and drain in less than half an hour it is possible you can flood them more times a day beneficially. Another benefit to running 3/4 lines is you can run fewer main hoses and have more pots connected to less mains and still achieve fast filling/drainage. thereby allowing you to free up valuable floor space that would otherwise be cluttered by a spiderweb of 1/2 inch lines.
> 
> Yes as hellraizer pointed out you may very well have more water in your lines tween waterings but if you elevate your pots this can be remedied easily. I raised my buckets 1/2 inch and my lines have less than 1/4 inch of water in em while in drain cycle. I run 10 inch netpots in 2 gallon buckets and flood 15 pots fully in just under 15 minutes. Fed only by three 3/4 main hoses.(each main hose has 5 pots connected to it) The entire flood/drain cycle takes bout 1/2 hour. I just completed my ebb expansion for my mums and I can see that after being placed under 1000w they will benefit from having a second watering a day. I plan on flipping 15 moms every 4-6 weeks. With space for 30 mothers in flower I will have two 15 plant harvests in my room.This will allow me to keep strong vibrant mothers to clone off of and keep two 1000w lights on in flower over my ebb sys as well as keep plenty of 8-12 inch clones for my 8x8 sog.


 OK. never mind


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## joethegrower86 (Mar 1, 2013)

You guys should look into Gas Lantern Routine if you dont know about it. Its about the light cycles. Check it out!


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 1, 2013)

joethegrower86 said:


> You guys should look into Gas Lantern Routine if you dont know about it. Its about the light cycles. Check it out!


Insane did a full test on gas lantern method and it didnt turn out the best! Not bad but not great


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## HomeLessBeans (Mar 1, 2013)

They are handy to hav on hand in case of a power outage. Heat light CO2 all in one place


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 1, 2013)

HomeLessBeans said:


> They are handy to hav on hand in case of a power outage. Heat light CO2 all in one place


Rofl............


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## makesSinse33 (Mar 14, 2013)

Could be that your plants are over watered. Try flooding 2-3 x/day vs 5. This post was 4 years ago so i'm sure you've solved this problem, if not giver a try and let me know how everything went.


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## makesSinse33 (Mar 14, 2013)

thehiena said:


> Finaly I've found a thread I can relate to, I also use the ebb n grow buckets but I haven't been able to fine tune it 100%, I drilled some more holes on the inner buckets because the roots were clogging the holes at the bottom so I made holes on the side of the inner buckets, now the roots come out of those hole too but not enough to clog them.
> The only problem I have is something call the claw, I've tried diffrent nutes but always end up with the claw don''t know what causes it.
> I water my plants 5 times a day, and I change the rez every 18 days and I flush for 1 day in between.


*

Could be that your plants are over watered. Try flooding 2-3 x/day vs 5. This post was 4 years ago so i'm sure you've solved this problem, if not giver a try and let me know how everything went.​




*


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## logger906 (Mar 19, 2013)

Hi you guys,I need a little help i am VARY new to cap ebb and grow. i will be taking some clones that are ready to go and i would like to put them directly in to my 2 gal. pots... how do i do this the wright way. Thanks eh.


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## HomeLessBeans (Mar 19, 2013)

I can never get them in order.. you are seein 1.4.3.2. as the order.

float your stones in a larger bucket than the inner pot. cup the roots . put the plant where you want it. raise the pot out of the bucket.. done done easy peasy


good luck


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## DarlingMaster (Apr 10, 2013)

Anybody who's considering buying and ebb/flow system should give GreenTrees a look. I bought their system a month ago and it is bar far the best designed system I have ever seen. The controller has float switches that are adjustable for different flood heights and the outer buckets drain 100%. I loved my CAP system but the GreenTrees blows it away.


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## hatelosing (Apr 30, 2013)

a few days late, I just got my second cap system.. but the greentree does look really nice ( the mult flow hydroponic system - correct)


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## hellraizer30 (May 2, 2013)

Only thing about greentree that stands out to me is the control box!
i have seen then all and would just replace the c box on the cap setups
with greentree on


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## adower (May 2, 2013)

Does anyone know if there is an option to pick up a larger reservoir that is the same style as the one the ebb and flow system comes with? I want to expand to 48 sites but do not want to buy another system. I was hoping to find a 75 gallon res and use that instead. I can find the flood trays easy but nothing else.


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## hellraizer30 (May 3, 2013)

adower said:


> Does anyone know if there is an option to pick up a larger reservoir that is the same style as the one the ebb and flow system comes with? I want to expand to 48 sites but do not want to buy another system. I was hoping to find a 75 gallon res and use that instead. I can find the flood trays easy but nothing else.


I have found any water r/o store will carry large style water tanks! Most are white but i have seen black ones.


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## AKronic (May 5, 2013)

If you want to increase your res size you could always buy a second barrel and then plumb it into the main res that has the pump. And when it comes to draining I plumbed a Y w/ valves to the res pump line. Then I can thread a hose to the fitting at the Y and pump out the res into the drain.


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## facestabber (Jul 12, 2013)

Greetings Ebb&Growers! Have any of you tried "Rock Supercharge Root Conditioner" in your E&G? It's a product I'm interested in but I'm very cautious when it comes to my roots. BTW, I'm very aware of Heisenberg Tea so let's talk Rock Supercharge for a sec.


----------



## facestabber (Jul 12, 2013)

Currently running DM Zone as a sterile root zone conditioner, works amazing with chemical nutes but not so well with organics. 

According to their website Rock Nutrients are organic which means if I wanna use them the DM Zone has gotta go. This basically leaves me with 2 options that interest me, Rock Supercharge Root Conditioner or EWC tea.

Yes, I'm very stoned right now.


----------



## joe macclennan (Jul 12, 2013)

adower said:


> Does anyone know if there is an option to pick up a larger reservoir that is the same style as the one the ebb and flow system comes with? I want to expand to 48 sites but do not want to buy another system. I was hoping to find a 75 gallon res and use that instead. I can find the flood trays easy but nothing else.



piggyback two 55 gallon drums together with bulkhead fittings. 

What I did. 

much cheaper than buying expensive reservoirs from your grow store


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## budtoker0987 (Jul 22, 2013)

I'm going to run 3/4" tubing to my buckets. 3/4" T's and Elbows, ect.. What size hole do you drill in the bucket for the fill line T to plug into? Also what size grommet would that be for that hole? 3/4" ?? 

THANKS!!


----------



## Stonzey (Aug 1, 2013)

Been reading this thread from the beginning, thanks for all the great advice on e&g setup!
I've got an issue I can't quit seem to figure out. Some if my leaves are twisting like a spirmaybe 2 on each plant?
Running botanicare kind
At 5.9ph 
1300ppm with 400 ppm tap water
75f all day long 68f at night. 
Here's some pics


----------



## smokingrubber (Aug 1, 2013)

budtoker0987 said:


> I'm going to run 3/4" tubing to my buckets. 3/4" T's and Elbows, ect.. What size hole do you drill in the bucket for the fill line T to plug into? Also what size grommet would that be for that hole? 3/4" ??
> 
> THANKS!!


You'll need 1" holes. I upgraded my buckets to 3 gal, and upped the lines to 3/4" about a year ago. I had to raise the controller a bit, but it definitely cleared up all my issues with clogged lines.


----------



## budtoker0987 (Aug 1, 2013)

smokingrubber said:


> You'll need 1" holes. I upgraded my buckets to 3 gal, and upped the lines to 3/4" about a year ago. I had to raise the controller a bit, but it definitely cleared up all my issues with clogged lines.


Im STARTING out this system with 5 gallon buckets. Is that overkill or something? Or are there any particular issues i might run into rather than having like 3 or 3.5 gallon buckets? 

Thanks!


----------



## smokingrubber (Aug 1, 2013)

budtoker0987 said:


> Im STARTING out this system with 5 gallon buckets. Is that overkill or something? Or are there any particular issues i might run into rather than having like 3 or 3.5 gallon buckets?
> 
> Thanks!


5 gal buckets are great if you have the proper controller. 3gal bucket are close to the same height as the original 2gal buckets so the same controller can be used. If you go 5gal with a short controller, the water won't come up high enough. Be sure you buy the "monster" controller bucket not the standard 2gal one. (or drop down to 3gal buckets).


----------



## budtoker0987 (Aug 1, 2013)

Well i installed my control bucket on a 5 gallon bucket. the same buckets ill be using for the planters actually.

Controller i bought: http://www.aquahub.com/store/product68.html

Awesome thread i followed for guidlines to make it: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=92963


----------



## oddlifter (Aug 1, 2013)

How many buckets + controller could fit for flowering in a 8'x4'?


----------



## budtoker0987 (Aug 4, 2013)

*In the pic you see i set the pump on its side, that didnt do any different than having it upright on the suction cups. Either way when the drain cycle is about finished and the water level gets to like 2" - 2.5" it sounds like its running mostly air thru it with a SMALL amount of water but it doesnt get it low enough for the bottom float switch to shut it off. So basically its going to run til it burns out. Do i need a different pump? Im thinking about remaking the control bucket and just using 1" drilled hole with 3/4" grommets for the fill/drain holes like i did on the planters, instead of those bulkheads that obviously sit up a little higher than the planter bucket holes... It kind of has to go UPHILL to get into the control bucket a little. i dunno, i need some advice please and thank you!!


*

Main problem, water level doesnt get low enuf to shut of the pump..


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 4, 2013)

budtoker0987 said:


> *In the pic you see i set the pump on its side, that didnt do any different than having it upright on the suction cups. Either way when the drain cycle is about finished and the water level gets to like 2" - 2.5" it sounds like its running mostly air thru it with a SMALL amount of water but it doesnt get it low enough for the bottom float switch to shut it off. So basically its going to run til it burns out. Do i need a different pump? Im thinking about remaking the control bucket and just using 1" drilled hole with 3/4" grommets for the fill/drain holes like i did on the planters, instead of those bulkheads that obviously sit up a little higher than the planter bucket holes... It kind of has to go UPHILL to get into the control bucket a little. i dunno, i need some advice please and thank you!!
> 
> 
> *View attachment 2763326View attachment 2763327View attachment 2763328View attachment 2763329View attachment 2763330View attachment 2763331
> ...


Take the cover off that pump and turn it inlet side down, it will stop sucking air


----------



## budtoker0987 (Aug 5, 2013)

The whole case comes off? didnt know that..


Also, a different question, the water level comes up to 3 gallons inside the INNER planter bucket (5 gallon buckets) when full. Is that enough or should i make that higher?

Going to remake my control bucket anyways so any tips would help here.


----------



## smokingrubber (Aug 5, 2013)

oddlifter said:


> How many buckets + controller could fit for flowering in a 8'x4'?


I also have a 8x4 tent. I think the optimal number of plants = 8. That's 4 each under two 1k lights. I like to add an extra empty bucket (that I can see through a window) so I can monitor the water level. I've gone with 12 buckets but things get way too crowded. Too crowded is all bad for multiple reasons.


----------



## budtoker0987 (Aug 12, 2013)

For new cuttings, im reading on the first few pages of this thread to feed them 2 or 3 times a day.. How strong of ppm at these first couple weeks? I have mine set for 3 times a day, 15 mins. And ppm is about 495.


----------



## Razdazz69 (Aug 18, 2013)

Can u use jiffy pellets n the cap eg system ?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 19, 2013)

Razdazz69 said:


> Can u use jiffy pellets n the cap eg system ?


Yes you can.. Other than the jiffy what type of medium you plan on using?

although jiffy will work r/w or roit cubes would be a better choice


----------



## huffnpuff81 (Sep 7, 2013)

Wow made it through half this forum so far,great info and advice ppl..I$ the monster ebb and grow and wanted to expand to the 12 pot system and was wondering If I used 3 1/2 gall bucket inserts with hydroton in the 5 gall pots would I have enough nutrients in my 55gall res to fill all the pots??


----------



## Skylander (Sep 7, 2013)

I was wondering the same thing! I wanted to run 12 thats too many for my setup. I like to veg for around 45 days!


----------



## huffnpuff81 (Sep 8, 2013)

Skylander said:


> I was wondering the same thing! I wanted to run 12 thats too many for my setup. I like to veg for around 45 days!


Are u useing the monster system?


----------



## Skylander (Sep 8, 2013)

this will be my first grow on my own with no one to correct me....but yeah I know I am using the monster not sure about huffnpuff...


----------



## Skylander (Sep 8, 2013)

As I said I'm just using 8 but I have 12 ....just incase i end getting a bigger tent...still would like to know. It would be stupid if they offer expansion buckets for a system and not recommend a additional res to support them


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## max420thc (Sep 11, 2013)

too much nitrogen,But its not going to hurt the plant


----------



## max420thc (Sep 11, 2013)

budtoker0987 said:


> *In the pic you see i set the pump on its side, that didnt do any different than having it upright on the suction cups. Either way when the drain cycle is about finished and the water level gets to like 2" - 2.5" it sounds like its running mostly air thru it with a SMALL amount of water but it doesnt get it low enough for the bottom float switch to shut it off. So basically its going to run til it burns out. Do i need a different pump? Im thinking about remaking the control bucket and just using 1" drilled hole with 3/4" grommets for the fill/drain holes like i did on the planters, instead of those bulkheads that obviously sit up a little higher than the planter bucket holes... It kind of has to go UPHILL to get into the control bucket a little. i dunno, i need some advice please and thank you!!
> 
> 
> *View attachment 2763326View attachment 2763327View attachment 2763328View attachment 2763329View attachment 2763330View attachment 2763331
> ...


You have some holes for the flood and drain lines to run to around the bottom of the bucket.Take a new pump ..Allot of pumps come with a adapter that will screw into the front of the pump after the pump filter comes off..the hose barb adapter will screw into the front of the pump.Place the pump on the outside of the control bucket and connect it to one of the holes that flood and drain..or you can make a hole of your own for the pump.hook a hose barb up to the hole with grommet then hook a small piece of tubing up to the pump and connect it to the buckets hose barb.The pump will be on the outside of the bucket but will sit at least a half inch lower than if it were inside the bucket .This will allow the bucket to bleed down to the pump and the pump will be able to pull almost all the water out of the control bucket.Good luck and i hope this helped.


----------



## max420thc (Sep 11, 2013)

adower said:


> Does anyone know if there is an option to pick up a larger reservoir that is the same style as the one the ebb and flow system comes with? I want to expand to 48 sites but do not want to buy another system. I was hoping to find a 75 gallon res and use that instead. I can find the flood trays easy but nothing else.


I have run without problem 48 two gallon sites on the 55 gal res that comes with the system.It will suck up a little over half of the barrels water when it floods.


----------



## max420thc (Sep 11, 2013)

Sencha said:


> Hey guys (warlock and hellraizer). I'm just looking for some quick lazy answers to a couple questions.
> 
> I've seen some mention of 5 gallon sites for growing larger plants. In your experiences, are 2-1k HPS lights good enough for 12 sites at two gallons? Does growing larger plants seem more efficient? How do the 5 gallon sites affect your lighting?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


2 1000 lamps will cover 2 sections of 12 plants each in 2 gallon containers Under super cobra hoods in a 5x5 section each with over lap of light between the two hoods.as far as what size difference does it make ?CANOPY MANAGEMENT..and some dependent on your veg space.2 gallon pots i like to veg to around 2 ft with trained multi tops stocked underneath for air movement.If i were using the 5 gallon the veg time would be longer and the plant would be larger before it goes in.Use of light amongst the plants comes from good canopy management.(some of us still like to call it WORK)good luck to you and hope this helped


----------



## max420thc (Sep 11, 2013)

facestabber said:


> Currently running DM Zone as a sterile root zone conditioner, works amazing with chemical nutes but not so well with organics.
> 
> According to their website Rock Nutrients are organic which means if I wanna use them the DM Zone has gotta go. This basically leaves me with 2 options that interest me, Rock Supercharge Root Conditioner or EWC tea.
> 
> Yes, I'm very stoned right now.


I like ZONE...But i think id look into hygrozyme or nitrozyme . running organics in a E&G be ready to do allot of cleaning clean everything in the system every week.All the tubes all the buckets all of the control boxs ect.If you have any of your lines go down because they were clogged up you will be sorry.That being said organics can be used if you are not lazy and really increase the taste smell .Make sure you have 3/4 inch lines if you can running organic.Good luck to you i hope this helps.


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## bassman999 (Jan 29, 2014)

I know all the answers are in this thread most likely, and I have read 6 pages so far(at 40 posts/page setting), but i am setting up now...


How many times and how long should the flood cycles be for veg and for flower?

Thanx for this great thread!!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 29, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> I know all the answers are in this thread most likely, and I have read 6 pages so far(at 40 posts/page setting), but i am setting up now...
> 
> 
> How many times and how long should the flood cycles be for veg and for flower?
> ...


When i was rocking the ebb i went x2 floods for veg with less than 30 buckets flood 30minutes
flower i went x3 flood same length


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## bassman999 (Jan 29, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> When i was rocking the ebb i went x2 floods for veg with less than 30 buckets flood 30minutes
> flower i went x3 flood same length


Thanx for the reply.
It is set for 3 now, but Ill change it in the morning


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## Red1966 (Jan 30, 2014)

max420thc said:


> I have run without problem 48 two gallon sites on the 55 gal res that comes with the system.It will suck up a little over half of the barrels water when it floods.


 Hydroton takes up 5/8 of the volume in the bucket, water making up the rest, so a two gallon bucket holds only 3/4 gallon of water.


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## bassman999 (Jan 30, 2014)

Red1966 said:


> Hydroton takes up 5/8 of the volume in the bucket, water making up the rest, so a two gallon bucket holds only 3/4 gallon of water.


I am using 30 gal for my 12 plants , I could use less I suppose


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## Red1966 (Jan 30, 2014)

The solution, PPM, and pH are more stable with more water. So it's not being wasted.


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## Red1966 (Jan 30, 2014)

max420thc said:


> I have run without problem 48 two gallon sites on the 55 gal res that comes with the system.It will suck up a little over half of the barrels water when it floods.


 If the buckets were flooded to the top rim, then they would use 36 gallon, so 30 gallon sounds about right.


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## bird mcbride (Jan 30, 2014)

I have just constructed a mini table 2' x 2' x 7". I am doing six 4min F&D every twenty four hours and with seedlings under CFL I bumped it from 18/6d to 20/4d. I have yet to install the overflow at the head of the table so I can increase the flood time, But that comes later when I switch it to clones and flowers. This is my hobby table and I am very lazy.


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## Red1966 (Jan 30, 2014)

Aren't you concerned about flooding without an overflow?


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## bird mcbride (Jan 30, 2014)

Red1966 said:


> Aren't you concerned about flooding without an overflow?


Ya I am but so far just one flood but that was my mistake. I screwed up with the am pm thing 
I got the overflow but still have to drill the hole. I started the seeds in the table without prespouting and I have the table flooding at 2/3. The new hydroton is way more floaty than the old hydroton That I'm using in my other table. I'm going to slot the overflow so I can adjust the flood level. For now though she's working like a trooper.


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## bassman999 (Jan 30, 2014)

Red1966 said:


> The solution, PPM, and pH are more stable with more water. So it's not being wasted.


Good point, I didnt hink of that.
Thanx!


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## FilthyFletch (Jan 30, 2014)

I do 4 floods in my 18 bucket system ebb n gro buckets. i built my own using 2 gallon buckets. I did a test run with my chosen pump and timed how long to fil the buckets, including hydroton in them and thats what i set my timer for. For me its a 10 minute flood on and the controller handle that leveling time and then it takes like 7 minutes to drain fully. I run fills every 6 hours through entire grow. Same as in my flood tables


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## bassman999 (Jan 30, 2014)

I noticed the girls that went into ebb last night were less healthy than those that stayed in perlite cups with same nutes.

Could be not enough moisture to roots, rockwool too wet, or they dont like the Hydro Rokz??


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## bassman999 (Jan 30, 2014)

Inoticed after 2 days res smells a lil funky.

I added some H2o2, and temporarily a water pump to keep water moving.

Ill add an air pump tomorrow.

What size air pump do I need?


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## FilthyFletch (Feb 2, 2014)

You can run a simple whisper 20 or 40 your choice like this http://www.healthypets.com/whpairpump20.html?mr:trackingCode=36699EFC-909B-E011-8D66-001517B188A2&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=28625372687&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=38543705835&origin=pla&gclid=CIXwnKT_rbwCFQtgMgoduSoAVg then put a 6 inch disc on it and toss it in the res. A second pump is a good thing I always add a small 50 gph pump in my res to run 24/7 just to keep the water and nutes mixed.. Depending on your nutes a res can get a bit stinky after a few days especially if you run organic mixes which if you do then no H202 or your killing your organics. Clean and replace once every week in a 30 gallon res and keep it topped off paying attention to the levels as that will tell you what your plants are doing as far as drinking and your ppm will tell you how they are eating if you get a nice balanced drop in both you have health eating and drinking.


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## bassman999 (Feb 2, 2014)

FilthyFletch said:


> You can run a simple whisper 20 or 40 your choice like this http://www.healthypets.com/whpairpump20.html?mr:trackingCode=36699EFC-909B-E011-8D66-001517B188A2&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=28625372687&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=38543705835&origin=pla&gclid=CIXwnKT_rbwCFQtgMgoduSoAVg then put a 6 inch disc on it and toss it in the res. A second pump is a good thing I always add a small 50 gph pump in my res to run 24/7 just to keep the water and nutes mixed.. Depending on your nutes a res can get a bit stinky after a few days especially if you run organic mixes which if you do then no H202 or your killing your organics. Clean and replace once every week in a 30 gallon res and keep it topped off paying attention to the levels as that will tell you what your plants are doing as far as drinking and your ppm will tell you how they are eating if you get a nice balanced drop in both you have health eating and drinking.


Thanx, I ended up with an Active Aqua 20 watt, and its noisy as HELL!!

It does make lots of activity as if the water in thee is boiling.

I am gonna drain and refill with fresh nutes and Dutch Master Zone.....I am using Maxi Bloom for nutes right now

Honestly plants are doing terrible in there!

The ones still in perlite cups look so much happier.
The EBB ones are yellowing and leaves are not straight out or up, but just crappy looking.

I am hoping the fresh nutes and the air will help.


I might have put too much H2o2 in there to compensate for no air stones till I bought the pump???

I hope they look better in a few days


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## bassman999 (Feb 3, 2014)

Well fesh nutes an air and all, but they all look sick 24 hr after they hit the caly balls,
The ones in hempy look fine still.

Does anyone have any experience with the Atami B'Cuzz Hydrp Rokz??
I think the knock-off Hydroton might be the issue.
The res looks cloudy like from clay dust.
I washed them vigorously, with hot water and a strainer.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 3, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Well fesh nutes an air and all, but they all look sick 24 hr after they hit the caly balls,
> The ones in hempy look fine still.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with the Atami B'Cuzz Hydrp Rokz??
> ...



hydroton sucks never again.....
better to get growdan and mix 50/50 with absobent/repellant growdan = no transplant shock
less sweating washing rock and a much cleaner res.


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 3, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> hydroton sucks never again.....
> better to get growdan and mix 50/50 with absobent/repellant growdan = no transplant shock
> less sweating washing rock and a much cleaner res.


Is that rockwool, or something else?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 3, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Is that rockwool, or something else?


Growdan = rockwool


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 3, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> Growdan = rockwool


I have trouble with stuff that retains water too much as I tend to over water.

You flood and drian with them?
How many times a day do you flood with them Grodan?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 3, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> I have trouble with stuff that retains water too much as I tend to over water.
> 
> You flood and drian with them?
> How many times a day do you flood with them Grodan?


2 times a day its key to mix the grodan/rockwool absorbant with 30 to 50% growdan/rockwool repellant
this give the right ratio and helps eliminate root rot.

trust me bro you got to get away from the rock lol i was washing
300L of rock a week when i saw the light! Started switching to r/w
and never looked back. Although i dont grow using ebb setups anymore
i do have alot of exp with them


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 3, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> 2 times a day its key to mix the grodan/rockwool absorbant with 30 to 50% growdan/rockwool repellant
> this give the right ratio and helps eliminate root rot.
> 
> trust me bro you got to get away from the rock lol i was washing
> ...


I was re-reading what you wrote, and saw the repellent part.
I didnt know they made that, and now it makes more sense to me.

I just bought this stuff, and am broke now, but I will def look into this for the next grow.

Might go to the hydro store tomorrow and open up a bag to see this stuff in person.


I have noticed a lil life coming back into the girls today as a rsult I suppose of less watering cycles.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 3, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> I was re-reading what you wrote, and saw the repellent part.
> I didnt know they made that, and now it makes more sense to me.
> 
> I just bought this stuff, and am broke now, but I will def look into this for the next grow.
> ...



The bag with purple righting is absorbant and the green righting is repellant


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## bassman999 (Feb 3, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> The bag with purple righting is absorbant and the green righting is repellant


Ok

So you just take the 2 and mix them into the pots evenly loosely packed?

Does a bag equal close to the same volume as the clay rocks?


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 3, 2014)

This is what the green label growdan packaging should look like.
http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=3823

And the absorbant 
http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=3827

Less water using growdan plus you can flood for less time do to how the growdan wicks water


a bag of growdan will fill 50buckets so if you went 50/50 you could fill 100 buckets 
Loose fill growdan you just throw in the bucket and plant.

although its good to do a pre-charge before with half strength solution to pre-charge and rinse
out and particals in the medium


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## bassman999 (Feb 3, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> This is what the green label growdan packaging should look like.
> http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=3823
> 
> And the absorbant
> ...


I was worried about price when I looked them up earlier, but if they go that far Ill def have to try em out next time.

Ill have to see what it looks like...it says granules and wool, so I guess the 2 parts are different looking....?

Google images...looks very interesting.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 3, 2014)

They look almost the same.. Price point is worth it over washing rock! You think new rock is bad lol
wait till you get to clean once or twice used rock with all the roots = nightmare


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 4, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> They look almost the same.. Price point is worth it over washing rock! You think new rock is bad lol
> wait till you get to clean once or twice used rock with all the roots = nightmare


I bet it is.

I spent 2 hrs washing the new stuff and it still leaves dust in pots res etc...


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 10, 2014)

Bro do a run off test to see where the ph is. The stones are around 7. Did you soak them for a few days in ph of 5.0?


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 10, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> Bro do a run off test to see where the ph is. The stones are around 7. Did you soak them for a few days in ph of 5.0?


I didnt know that I had to do that.
The ph has stabilized now though.

I have found that the water I use has a ph rise for 1-2 days, or 4-6 hrs if I bubble it.

I get water prepared in advance now, and am having way less issue and plants are looking way better.

Thanx for the help


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## GreenMountain71 (Feb 11, 2014)

I stopped using hydro stone! Works great for the 2nd and 3rd run! 1st I always had problems with ph swings! Had to do run off then adjust nutes to make the run off 5.5! I would check just before the next feeding and the ph would be above 6. I use canna coco in smart pots with my ebb monster! Check out the oxygen pot system. Also if anyone looking to save some cash of with grow bulb blow out sale @greners! Hortilux super hps for $59! Sweet deal! Plant max are $19


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## bassman999 (Feb 11, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> I stopped using hydro stone! Works great for the 2nd and 3rd run! 1st I always had problems with ph swings! Had to do run off then adjust nutes to make the run off 5.5! I would check just before the next feeding and the ph would be above 6. I use canna coco in smart pots with my ebb monster! Check out the oxygen pot system. Also if anyone looking to save some cash of with grow bulb blow out sale @greners! Hortilux super hps for $59! Sweet deal! Plant max are $19


EBB n GRO on roids lol nice


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## bassman999 (Feb 11, 2014)

I followed the Lucas formula, and my ppm/EC seems too high.
I am using 145ppm tap water with GH Flora series 3 part using only Micro and Bloom and Micro 8ml/gal and Bloom 16ml/gal
PPM 1500 and ec 2.1 after a flood and drain I am down to 2.0ec and 1450ppm at .70 conv.


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## GreenMountain71 (Feb 12, 2014)

Using a lil to much! I use 6ml of micro an 9 ml of bloom. Ppms are around 750 800!ph is 5.5! 900 to 1000 on my 6 to 7 ft tall ones. Yours must be around 4.5 or 5 with that mix. Are you using ph up? After 30 days I pull micro an use kool bloom powder! Works great!
heres what I use! Last pull using 2 600z with 5 plants was 35 oz's

You've been asking exactly how I do what I do,with ferts, for a good long time.
This is a recipe for anybody to follow,based on my decade-plus experiences with GenHy's Flora Series.
It does smokin' good for me,your results may vary.
I'm always tweaking the above,and you should,too.






==The Recipe==




(All Products are GenHydro,pH at 5.5 pH)
(All measurements are per gal.)
6ml flora micro
9ml flora bloom
Kool-Bloom POWDER


VEGETATIVE STAGE AT 24 HRS. LIGHT ON
(18/6,optional)


Veg,Feed:


6ml flora micro
9ml flora bloom


Use the above 1/2-strength on seedlings and clones to 10" tall,then feed full-strength>on.








Based on 63 day 12/12 Flower Cycle:


Day 1-14
6ml micro
9ml bloom


Day 15-21
6ml micro
9ml bloom
1 tsp./Gal. Kool-Bloom POWDER (ONE FEED,DAY 15!)


Day 22-28
6ml micro
9ml Bloom


Day 29-35
9ml Bloom
1 tsp./gal. Kool-Bloom POWDER (ONE FEED,DAY 29!)


Day 36-52
9 ml Bloom
(AND ON DAY 36,a 1 tsp./gal Kool-Bloom POWDER Slam!!)


Day 52-63 (Flush)
5.5-6.0 pH h20 at 50 ppm




Now you know!!










ADDENDUM 9-6-09:


I've seen yields increase about 15% (!!) with the above modifications.


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok I am gonna water it down.

BTW I have tap water.

IDK why the LUCAS site shows such a high concentration.

I have to use ph down still if you can believe that, as my tap will rise to over 9 after it airs out


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## bassman999 (Feb 12, 2014)

I added 8 gallons of 145 ppm tap, and its down to 1220 ppm at the .7 conversion now


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## GreenMountain71 (Feb 13, 2014)

How big are your girls? Any burning on the tips?


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 13, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> How big are your girls? Any burning on the tips?


I have a laundry list of strains.
I dont make anything easy.

With that said, the sativas (Pineapple and SLH) are clawing with slight tip burn, but the rest are really coming alive!

They are all between 13" and 19" from the clay balls.
This is a few inches taller than a few days ago.

They were stagnant after transplant into the ebb for 7 days or so, but when the roots hit the bottom the did take off just as everyone said they would.


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## bassman999 (Feb 13, 2014)

ppm is 1150 now and stable


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## GreenDyl (Feb 15, 2014)

Anyone got any experience with adding airstones into individual buckets? I am getting root rot for the first time in a oceanus 4 gal bucket system from the roots sitting in the water. Temps are 69 ph is stable anywhere from 5.5-6.2. I run heis tea every 2 weeks. Its a heavy indica strain so i was thinking maybe the genetics on this one really just don't like being watered so much.


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## GreenDyl (Feb 15, 2014)

btw i don't run any airstones in rez just a recirc pump


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## bassman999 (Feb 15, 2014)

GreenDyl said:


> btw i don't run any airstones in rez just a recirc pump


I added airstones to rez with 20 watt pump and Dutch Master Zone to rez just below medium strength acc to their website and my rez seems to be doing way better now with similar temps


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## GreenDyl (Feb 15, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> I added airstones to rez with 20 watt pump and Dutch Master Zone to rez just below medium strength acc to their website and my rez seems to be doing way better now with similar temps


So obviously you weren't running heisenbergs tea then or what? I think I'm about to go load up on airstones tomorrow. Ill let you guys know what happens hopefully its straight. Im starting my second week of flower so this is crucial.


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## bassman999 (Feb 15, 2014)

GreenDyl said:


> So obviously you weren't running heisenbergs tea then or what? I think I'm about to go load up on airstones tomorrow. Ill let you guys know what happens hopefully its straight. Im starting my second week of flower so this is crucial.


I missed the tea part.

I tried to do organic before and it turned out bad.
Sorry I couldnt be any help


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## GreenDyl (Feb 15, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> I missed the tea part.
> 
> I tried to do organic before and it turned out bad.
> Sorry I couldnt be any help


Its all good homie! ill figure it out. Thinking about switching to RDWC and using H&G


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## GreenMountain71 (Feb 16, 2014)

Need to put a spacer in your ebb & gro buckets so the roots are not sitting in the stagnant water.(I used PVC to make little stands) I also add air stones to the Rez and controller. Go pick up some h2o2. Cleans the roots up nice. How bad are the roots hanging out the pots? Are they going in the lines?


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## GreenMountain71 (Feb 16, 2014)

After I transplant into the ebb monster I start first res @560 ppms for first week then raise to 700, 800 (water @135ppms). Ph 5.5 to 5.8. I hardly ever use ph up or down. Only if ph is above 6 and I don't have time to change the res.


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## GreenDyl (Feb 16, 2014)

Won't h202 kill my tea? And yeah the roots are going into the lines bad, how can I put a spacer in if my bottom bucket is half roots I feel like they will still be in the water?


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## GreenDyl (Feb 16, 2014)

I ended up taking a completely different route, changing watering schedule to 5x a day and using a product called wilt guard by cx hydroponics. Also cooling my room down to get more DO in the water.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2014)

@greendyl 
from what in reading i thing your using the tea rong! Your adding every 2 weeks?
if so by the time you add new tea the old bacteria is dead! Even though you might
do a res change every 2 weeks this is not the only time to add the tea.

correct way to add tea resipe........
#1 brew a tea close to hienbergs resipe
#2 mix a fresh res
#3 add 1gal. Of tea to every 10gal. Of res water to start off. Never exceed 3gal. In a 55gal drum.
#4 every 3 days add 1cup tea to every 10gals res water.
reason for adding tea throughout the 2week res cycle is to add new micro life and feed the old
micro life as they need food to.

Your water temp is fine allthough i wouldnt go any higher, the left water in the buckets is getting
cooked by the light and causing funk to spread to your substra

Zone or h202 will kill off and good you have created with teas! Simple fix to the left water in your buckets is to
just raise them 1 1/2in above the control box. Allowing the water to drain back to the res where you want it.
you will not get 100% of the water but 90% is better then nothing. 

Just putting a spacer in the bucket to raise it up is a fast fix but the roots will grow down into the left water 
again.

as for air......
at the peak of my ebb and grow years i was running x6 55gal. Ebb drums and 3 were rig up
with 45l air pumps to each and the other 3 were just being turned by a small pump. Seen no
difference between the 2, allthough the one that i was turning i could add alot more stuff to
without it getting all funky. Air can aggitate some products and cause foam and junk to form.


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 16, 2014)

Mine is foamy from air and Zone.
I found some black stuff on top of foam, and it smears in my fingers.
I assume some sore of bacteria.
I guess Ill skim off the foam from now on


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Mine is foamy from air and Zone.
> I found some black stuff on top of foam, and it smears in my fingers.
> I assume some sore of bacteria.
> I guess Ill skim off the foam from now on



If a bottled product is the route you want to take pondzyme with barley is a better answer then zone


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 16, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> If a bottled product is the route you want to take pondzyme with barley is a better answer then zone


Pondzyme, I never heard of it, but Ill look it up.

Ok looked it up.

So can I use Floralicious Plus with this?
I noticed a nice increase in resins when growing in Sunshine Mix 4 using this, but was afraid to use it in hydro.


----------



## GreenDyl (Feb 16, 2014)

@hellraiser I top feed the tea I feel like top feeding any kind of microbe tea is way more effective. I run prime from H16 which the bennies can feed off. I don't have a problem with algae so it's more of a preventative then anything. I think my root rot issue arose from only watering 2 times a day so the temps in the bucket would get to 77 and become stagnant. I run 4x 55 gallon systems though hellraiser so I feel you. What are your guys watering schedules like? I use the Oceanus 4 gal blue buckets. Also has anyone tried wrapping these in Mylar?


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 16, 2014)

GreenDyl said:


> @hellraiser I top feed the tea I feel like top feeding any kind of microbe tea is way more effective. I run prime from H16 which the bennies can feed off. I don't have a problem with algae so it's more of a preventative then anything. I think my root rot issue arose from only watering 2 times a day so the temps in the bucket would get to 77 and become stagnant. I run 4x 55 gallon systems though hellraiser so I feel you. What are your guys watering schedules like? I use the Oceanus 4 gal blue buckets. Also has anyone tried wrapping these in Mylar?


Would the tea still be effective as a foliar?
I am afraid of an active res still at this point.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Would the tea still be effective as a foliar?
> I am afraid of an active res still at this point.


Would be super effective for plant health and pathagens above the substra level


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2014)

GreenDyl said:


> @hellraiser I top feed the tea I feel like top feeding any kind of microbe tea is way more effective. I run prime from H16 which the bennies can feed off. I don't have a problem with algae so it's more of a preventative then anything. I think my root rot issue arose from only watering 2 times a day so the temps in the bucket would get to 77 and become stagnant. I run 4x 55 gallon systems though hellraiser so I feel you. What are your guys watering schedules like? I use the Oceanus 4 gal blue buckets. Also has anyone tried wrapping these in Mylar?


Feed cycles
With rock as a medium x3 to 4 depending on how fast there growing
with growdan 50% absorbant 50% repelant x2 to x3
many years of exp with these setups have shown getting the water out of
the lines is 100% key!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Pondzyme, I never heard of it, but Ill look it up.
> 
> Ok looked it up.
> 
> ...


You can use pondzyme with about any nute company out there!
now would i run flora plus in a ebb..........(hell no lol)


----------



## GreenDyl (Feb 16, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> Feed cycles
> With rock as a medium x3 to 4 depending on how fast there growing
> with growdan 50% absorbant 50% repelant x2 to x3
> many years of exp with these setups have shown getting the water out of
> the lines is 100% key!


 Is there a way to get the lines mostly clear? lifting the buckets really isn't draining it enough for me man. And yeah I'm using hydroton as a medium so maybe Ill switch it too 4x a day.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2014)

GreenDyl said:


> Is there a way to get the lines mostly clear? lifting the buckets really isn't draining it enough for me man. And yeah I'm using hydroton as a medium so maybe Ill switch it too 4x a day.


If the control bucket is 1 1/2in to 2in bellow the buckets level it should drain out no problem


----------



## GreenDyl (Feb 16, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> If the control bucket is 1 1/2in to 2in bellow the buckets level it should drain out no problem


I have it set up on 2x4s. Did you ever use the oceanus 4 gal buckets?


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 16, 2014)

5 days after res change and it smells like a barn in the res now...the DM Zone doesnt work, or maybe I have to add it more often...

I think I am going back to soilless after this run.
I cant keep flushing this shit every 4-6 days.
Roots hanging out the inner pots look bright white still at least


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 17, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> 5 days after res change and it smells like a barn in the res now...the DM Zone doesnt work, or maybe I have to add it more often...
> 
> I think I am going back to soilless after this run.
> I cant keep flushing this shit every 4-6 days.
> Roots hanging out the inner pots look bright white still at least


Products like h202 or zone even bleach...dont kill 100% of bad bactiria! Only way is good bactiria vs bad.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 17, 2014)

GreenDyl said:


> I have it set up on 2x4s. Did you ever use the oceanus 4 gal buckets?


Yah i have run the titans before in fact a close buddy is running one now!


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 17, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> Products like h202 or zone even bleach...dont kill 100% of bad bactiria! Only way is good bactiria vs bad.


what do you recommend I run?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 17, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> what do you recommend I run?


Teas are the only answer imo! But keep it a simple tea like

aquashield
ewc
mollassis
mycogrow

brew 24hr to 48hr


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 17, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> Teas are the only answer imo! But keep it a simple tea like
> 
> aquashield
> ewc
> ...


How do I incorporate this into my res?
Do I still use my base nutrients?
I am using GH flora right now.

Could I use this instead of Aquashiled?

https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/mycorrhizae-and-inoculants/


----------



## GreenDyl (Feb 17, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> How do I incorporate this into my res?
> Do I still use my base nutrients?
> I am using GH flora right now.
> 
> ...


I feel top feeding the tea makes it much more effective IMO. Most people pour it directly into rez i think its 1 cup for every 10 gallons. not sure about the substitute i would honestly stick to heisenbergs recipe its legit.


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## GreenDyl (Feb 17, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yah i have run the titans before in fact a close buddy is running one now!


 Its a good system I am really thinking of switching to rdwc after this crop though. You have a lot more control over bucket temps.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 17, 2014)

GreenDyl said:


> Its a good system I am really thinking of switching to rdwc after this crop though. You have a lot more control over bucket temps.


I have run uc before, one thing cover your buckets and tubes from light will help with water temps.
get a chiller also almost a must


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 17, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> How do I incorporate this into my res?
> Do I still use my base nutrients?
> I am using GH flora right now.
> 
> ...



Not sure about that but aquashield rocks

ratios are as follows
fill rez and add nutes to your desired ppm level and water amount.
with a fresh rez add 1 gal. For every 10 gal. Of rez water. Do not
exceed 3 gal. Of tea to a 55gal. Res (ph after tea is added)

now to continue healthy micro life and a clean rez you should add
every three days 1 cup. Of tea to every 10 gal. Of rez water and dont 
exceed more then 3cups a 55gal. Rez. (Ph after tea is added)

this process will feed the old microlife and replace the one that died.

note: do not worry about the tea raising the ppm of your water it will
but not a issue


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 17, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> Not sure about that but aquashield rocks
> 
> ratios are as follows
> fill rez and add nutes to your desired ppm level and water amount.
> ...


Can you tell me the amounts of each thing to add to res



aquashield
ewc
mollassis
mycogrow​


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 17, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Can you tell me the amounts of each thing to add to res
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I keep it simple and use 4gal of water in a 5gal bucket
40ml aquashield
good handfull of (ewc) earthworm castings in a sock
50ml mollasiss
1/2 tbl mycogrow

brew it 24 if your in a hurry but 48 is best


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 17, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> I keep it simple and use 4gal of water in a 5gal bucket
> 40ml aquashield
> good handfull of (ewc) earthworm castings in a sock
> 50ml mollasiss
> ...


Thanx!
Ill do another Zone res for now, but Ill order or go local and get the stuff for the tea during this week.

Is there any certain molasses I should use, or is there even a difference?


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 18, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> I keep it simple and use 4gal of water in a 5gal bucket
> 40ml aquashield
> good handfull of (ewc) earthworm castings in a sock
> 50ml mollasiss
> ...


Spring time is coming, what temps do I need to shoot for in my res to keep it healthy with the tea in it?


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 18, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Spring time is coming, what temps do I need to shoot for in my res to keep it healthy with the tea in it?


68f is the sweet spot


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## bassman999 (Feb 18, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> 68f is the sweet spot


Just flushed and refilled with Zone, but I am going to the store tomorrow with a list.
I am also gonna look for a way to keep black pots and lines cool as well....I think that might be the problem??


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 18, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Just flushed and refilled with Zone, but I am going to the store tomorrow with a list.
> I am also gonna look for a way to keep black pots and lines cool as well....I think that might be the problem??



Hvac foil tape and wrap all the lines with it, i would leave the buckets alone the plants shade them.


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 18, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hvac foil tape and wrap all the lines with it, i would leave the buckets alone the plants shade them.


Ok Ill do that, but the plants arent shading right now after I chopped them and topped em lol


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 18, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Ok Ill do that, but the plants arent shading right now after I chopped them and topped em lol


In that case i would just cut a oversized peace of white poly plastic and put it on top the buckets


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 19, 2014)

hellraizer30 said:


> In that case i would just cut a oversized peace of white poly plastic and put it on top the buckets


I was thinking same


----------



## GreenDyl (Feb 20, 2014)

How do you keep roots from clogging up the lines? I realized this is what is causing most of my problems because the plants in the beginning of the rows will get clogged and then the rest of the buckets don't get the right water exchange. Anyone ever used a 1 inch hard pvc line with this system?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 20, 2014)

GreenDyl said:


> How do you keep roots from clogging up the lines? I realized this is what is causing most of my problems because the plants in the beginning of the rows will get clogged and then the rest of the buckets don't get the right water exchange. Anyone ever used a 1 inch hard pvc line with this system?


Not 1in but all my buckets were upgraded to 3/4 pvc hard line and a bit of root pruning, but 1in would solve any and all
issues of clogging


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 20, 2014)

Is root overgrowth a common problem with this system?
I am still vegging, but all buckets have roots hanging down like 6" or so


----------



## GreenDyl (Feb 20, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Is root overgrowth a common problem with this system?
> I am still vegging, but all buckets have roots hanging down like 6" or so


Im in my 2nd cycle of using this system and i feel like the roots clog up the T pieces within a couple days after i prune the roots. Its a pain in the ass and if left unchecked can lead to root rot and all the tribulations that come with it. AKA deficiencies and wilting.


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 20, 2014)

GreenDyl said:


> Im in my 2nd cycle of using this system and i feel like the roots clog up the T pieces within a couple days after i prune the roots. Its a pain in the ass and if left unchecked can lead to root rot and all the tribulations that come with it. AKA deficiencies and wilting.


Maybe some sort of screen in the buckets would help.


When you prune roots do you just chop off all the roots that come through inner bucket?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 20, 2014)

For the titan system you can purchase a sqaure smart pot custom fitted to the inner bucket this should slow
root clogging way down. As for the cap systems a #2 smart pot fits it perfect


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 23, 2014)

My buddy uses 1 in PVC with 1in hose to connect to buckets. No clogging at all now! He now switched to the smart pots which make the system flawless!


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 23, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> Is root overgrowth a common problem with this system?
> I am still vegging, but all buckets have roots hanging down like 6" or so


The biggest flaw in the cap system! Also the water left in the buckets!


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 23, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> My buddy uses 1 in PVC with 1in hose to connect to buckets. No clogging at all now! He now switched to the smart pots which make the system flawless!


Did he drill the bucket holes bigger??
Smart pot instead of or with the inner buckets?


GreenMountain71 said:


> The biggest flaw in the cap system! Also the water left in the buckets!


Would raising the buckets help at all?


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 24, 2014)

Yes , put a 2x6 or 2x8 under bucket which will drain water back to controller. 
He changed bucket to white and uses a 3 gallon smart pot with a stand on inside of bucket. Leaves a little room for the smart pots to air prune. If their tight the roots will go through and do the same. I'll post some pics this week


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 24, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> Yes , put a 2x6 or 2x8 under bucket which will drain water back to controller.
> He changed bucket to white and uses a 3 gallon smart pot with a stand on inside of bucket. Leaves a little room for the smart pots to air prune. If their tight the roots will go through and do the same. I'll post some pics this week


I am interested in pics of the internal stands


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 25, 2014)

Here's what I've been using for the last 18months but with white buckets. With black buckets roots still go crazy. White buckets they air prune. You'll still get some roots hanging in the water so I used some rubber flooring that's about 1/2 to 3/4 thick to put pots on but keep controller on floor helps get the excess water out the lines.

stand are metal with a rubber coating for any family dollar. Lots if people give me shit because metal is a nute leach. I've had no problems. My buddy used 5 or 6in PVC to make his stands. I'm currently changing to the oxygen pot system expansion kit which I'll post tomorrow. Don't use teas. Just a mod Lucas formula with a whole week flush with kleen and h2o2 in that last week before harvest. (Also flush every 2 res changes)


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 25, 2014)

I also change my lines every year (to buckets) avoids problems for me. They get nasty


----------



## budtoker0987 (Feb 25, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> I am interested in pics of the internal stands



Hey Bassman, i keep up on The Mainlining Thread and a guy said you were running a side by side of a cap ebb and flow and Hempy's ? Is this right? I'm doing the same, or was, then pulled, then am going to start again but. Lemme know if your doing that or not. I have a couple questions for ya


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 25, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> View attachment 3005992View attachment 3005993View attachment 3005994Here's what I've been using for the last 18months but with white buckets. With black buckets roots still go crazy. White buckets they air prune. You'll still get some roots hanging in the water so I used some rubber flooring that's about 1/2 to 3/4 thick to put pots on but keep controller on floor helps get the excess water out the lines.
> 
> stand are metal with a rubber coating for any family dollar. Lots if people give me shit because metal is a nute leach. I've had no problems. My buddy used 5 or 6in PVC to make his stands. I'm currently changing to the oxygen pot system expansion kit which I'll post tomorrow. Don't use teas. Just a mod Lucas formula with a whole week flush with kleen and h2o2 in that last week before harvest. (Also flush every 2 res changes)





GreenMountain71 said:


> I also change my lines every year (to buckets) avoids problems for me. They get nasty


I like the ideas you have used here.
I will raise the pots in some way, and will buy new lines.
Ill think about the changing of pots and internals too.


budtoker0987 said:


> Hey Bassman, i keep up on The Mainlining Thread and a guy said you were running a side by side of a cap ebb and flow and Hempy's ? Is this right? I'm doing the same, or was, then pulled, then am going to start again but. Lemme know if your doing that or not. I have a couple questions for ya


I am, but not a great grower, and my hempys are ebb n gro buckets with hose still on and I drain anything above 2" every time I feed.

they are really lagging behind the recirc system, and prolly mostly because I am feeding them whenever I remember.
I mean they arent ever droopiong, but I only feed like every 3-4 days.

Maybe Ill post a pic


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 25, 2014)

Here's my last mess! Trees!


----------



## budtoker0987 (Feb 25, 2014)

Bassman, oh i see. What im basically wondering is, will the different meduims in the same room not mesh well? cuz my buckets are straight hydroton. My hempy's are hydroton to the drain hole, then 3to1 perlite vermiculite mix and another layer of hydrot at the top, just to keep the top nice and flat. 

What i did was throw two hempy buckets that we decided not to keep as mothers in the bud room. like a week later we seein, not everywhere, but a couple on each one (two plants) i pull it off and its like glass-like very smooth but if you put pressure on it, it would smush or burst.. Had to be an egg of some kind. Just trying to find out if it wass a fluke,,, or it will happen again... or what... the main crap was not affected. thankfully


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 25, 2014)

budtoker0987 said:


> Bassman, oh i see. What im basically wondering is, will the different meduims in the same room not mesh well? cuz my buckets are straight hydroton. My hempy's are hydroton to the drain hole, then 3to1 perlite vermiculite mix and another layer of hydrot at the top, just to keep the top nice and flat.
> 
> What i did was throw two hempy buckets that we decided not to keep as mothers in the bud room. like a week later we seein, not everywhere, but a couple on each one (two plants) i pull it off and its like glass-like very smooth but if you put pressure on it, it would smush or burst.. Had to be an egg of some kind. Just trying to find out if it wass a fluke,,, or it will happen again... or what... the main crap was not affected. thankfully


I think that should be fine, thought it might change what the desired watering intervals would or should be...based on water holding of different mediums.
I think perlite and vermiculite hold more water that hydroton.


----------



## budtoker0987 (Feb 25, 2014)

True for sure. Do you think, getting those lil eggs was from the type of perlite and vermiculite? I mean, its -0 Fahrenheit out here so there arent any live bugs "getting in"


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 25, 2014)

budtoker0987 said:


> True for sure. Do you think, getting those lil eggs was from the type of perlite and vermiculite? I mean, its -0 Fahrenheit out here so there arent any live bugs "getting in"


My eyes arent good enough to know if I have ever had any lil eggs.
Some bugs are attracted to moist environments, and over-watering might lead to it.


----------



## FilthyFletch (Feb 25, 2014)

On my version I used 2x4s on the floor to set my buckets on and then I drilled my drain holes in the bottom instead of the side so all water drains out. Simple T fitting from bottom allows for exact flood and complete empty. I take 2 2x4s lay them flap so I have about 2 inches under the buckets the T and line sit between the 2 boards and run under the buckets to the brain bucket


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 25, 2014)

So I am getting the idea of roots not in water is a better idea that the original design.
Fletch did you use different buckets or the ones it came with and just plug side holes?


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 26, 2014)

Here's the new setup from oxygen pot system.
see it has room for air pruning!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Feb 26, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> View attachment 3007293View attachment 3007292Here's the new setup from oxygen pot system.
> see it has room for air pruning!


Is this a pre made kit?


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 26, 2014)

Yes from oxygen pot system. The lil stands are great! It was worth the 300 for the upgrade


----------



## bassman999 (Feb 26, 2014)

Even the drain hole is in a better location for more drainage


----------



## GreenMountain71 (Feb 28, 2014)

You do have to raise the pots with a 2x6. Few pics: refreshing the grow room. Have 2 600s cool tubes I'm going to put on the the walls. Just haven't figured the best way to vent them.


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## BunnyK (Mar 1, 2014)

Hi there guys,I just set up an DIY ebb and drain table based on wat i've read.There is only one draining hole because the water goes through the pipes to flood the table,not a traditional ebb n flow style for this set up.I'll take pictures soon,this time is my first grow by soil and hydroponic !! Hope to be helped,peace my friends


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 1, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> Yes from oxygen pot system. The lil stands are great! It was worth the 300 for the upgrade


I want the bucket inserts in those kits! Gunna give them a call and see if they offer just those


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## GreenMountain71 (Mar 1, 2014)

Bucket are wider an shorter. then reg 5 gallon buckets. I'll check to see if they fit.

They fit perfect! Nice an tight. But don't go all the way down.


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## GreenMountain71 (Mar 1, 2014)

Is it a flood table but drain to waste? Would like to check it out.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 1, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> Is it a flood table but drain to waste? Would like to check it out.


Im wanting to throw them under #2/#3 smart pots in a drain to waste setup


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## GreenMountain71 (Mar 2, 2014)

That's my dream set up! 12k on flap box with 12 4x8 tables (6 in each flowering room) drip with drain to waste.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 4, 2014)

PROBLEM: My drain pump gets vapor locked or something. It's running but not pumping anything. I replaced the pump, but it's still doing it. I replaced the hose that the pump is connected to, but it's still doing it. This morning I chopped about 2 ft off the end of the hose. It's now about 5ft long and as short as I can make it.

I'm at my wits end here. Ive run this system for at last 3 years. The new pump is a Supreme Hydroponics 300ph sump pump. Doesn't seem as reliable as the old pump. Fingers crossed it's working when I get home.


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## bassman999 (Mar 4, 2014)

smokingrubber said:


> PROBLEM: My drain pump gets vapor locked or something. It's running but not pumping anything. I replaced the pump, but it's still doing it. I replaced the hose that the pump is connected to, but it's still doing it. This morning I chopped about 2 ft off the end of the hose. It's now about 5ft long and as short as I can make it.
> 
> I'm at my wits end here. Ive run this system for at last 3 years. The new pump is a Supreme Hydroponics 300ph sump pump. Doesn't seem as reliable as the old pump. Fingers crossed it's working when I get home.


I have had this happen, but usually resolves if I unplug the pump for 30 sec and re-plug it in.

Good luck with this!


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## smokingrubber (Mar 4, 2014)

bassman999 said:


> I have had this happen, but usually resolves if I unplug the pump for 30 sec and re-plug it in.
> 
> Good luck with this!


Yes, I've had intermittent problem with it over the years and yes that usually fixes it. Not this time. Every time I go in there lately its fookin fooked. Of course I masturbate the floats until it start draining. It's still fooked a few hours later.


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## bassman999 (Mar 4, 2014)

smokingrubber said:


> Yes, I've had intermittent problem with it over the years and yes that usually fixes it. Not this time. Every time I go in there lately its fookin fooked. Of course I masturbate the floats until it start draining. It's still fooked a few hours later.


I dont know whats next if you have already changed the pump


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## GreenMountain71 (Mar 5, 2014)

Is your pump stuck on the side of the controller or on the bottom? Change positions. Have you took apart and cleaned it? Un hook your lines and make sure no hydro stone or any thing is in there.

i had similar problems with the fill pump. But you replaced the pump


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## bassman999 (Mar 5, 2014)

GreenMountain71 said:


> Is your pump stuck on the side of the controller or on the bottom? Change positions. Have you took apart and cleaned it? Un hook your lines and make sure no hydro stone or any thing is in there.
> 
> i had similar problems with the fill pump. But you replaced the pump


I found a stone in my controller bucket.
I can see how it could clog pupm


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## GreenMountain71 (Mar 7, 2014)

Has everyone heard Hydro Farm bought C.A.P? I guess now hydro farms is getting rid of the ebb monster and a bunch of other c.a.p products. So if any one needs to warranty their controller they better act soon.


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## Knott Collective (Mar 22, 2014)

smokingrubber said:


> PROBLEM: My drain pump gets vapor locked or something. It's running but not pumping anything. I replaced the pump, but it's still doing it. I replaced the hose that the pump is connected to, but it's still doing it. This morning I chopped about 2 ft off the end of the hose. It's now about 5ft long and as short as I can make it.
> 
> I'm at my wits end here. Ive run this system for at last 3 years. The new pump is a Supreme Hydroponics 300ph sump pump. Doesn't seem as reliable as the old pump. Fingers crossed it's working when I get home.


It may not be "vapor" locking. It's likely because the pump needs to be "primed" before it will operate properly. You may have an air bubble trapped in the pump and the impeller cannot gain "traction" becaue _there is no liquid around the impeller to get it started_. Fix is easy. When flood cycle drain process begins and the pump is spinning but not pumping, simply reach into liquid and turn the pump over to allow the air bubble to escape. You'll notice when it starts pumping. Return the pump to upright position and place in position. Leave it alone after this until next rez change when you'll need to "burp" or "prime" the pump again. One air bubble in the pump can render it useless.

Please don't ask me how I know this ...


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## Mike Browns Money (Apr 10, 2014)

shnkrmn said:


> I am using Dyna-gro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 and wow! Love that stuff and so do my plants! What would you use during bloom? Just continue on with that, or use a blossom booster?
> 
> I spent 2 1/2 hours washing new hydroton today. Thank god I had some very effective molasses cookies
> 
> I still havent figured out my layout so the ebb and grow is as yet unassembled. Tomorrow. I have so much material begging to be put in there! And new beans coming! I'll be starting a new journal soon with the ebb and grow. I'm looking forward to saying farewell to perlite.



Get a spare plastic barrel and cut the top off it. Dump all your new hydration into it and fill the barrel half way up with water, mix it all up and let the grit settle, then use a strainer to scoop your clean hydroton out of the bucket.


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## madmike1337 (Apr 14, 2014)

Knott Collective said:


> It may not be "vapor" locking. It's likely because the pump needs to be "primed" before it will operate properly. You may have an air bubble trapped in the pump and the impeller cannot gain "traction" becaue _there is no liquid around the impeller to get it started_. Fix is easy. When flood cycle drain process begins and the pump is spinning but not pumping, simply reach into liquid and turn the pump over to allow the air bubble to escape. You'll notice when it starts pumping. Return the pump to upright position and place in position. Leave it alone after this until next rez change when you'll need to "burp" or "prime" the pump again. One air bubble in the pump can render it useless.
> 
> Please don't ask me how I know this ...


I modified all of my Ebb & Gro controllers to use a 1/2" PVC Street elbow, a length of PVC Pipes and made the connection between the top of the control bucket and the pump rigid. I have occasional problems where air does get trapped, but turning the pump to a slight angle seems to stop that nonsense right away. If anyone wants to see it, I will take some photos during my next crop flip, just say the word.


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## bassman999 (Apr 14, 2014)

Mike I would like to see your upgrades


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## Red1966 (Apr 21, 2014)

Can't advise you on the other stuff, but you don't need to flush the plants every time you change the rez.


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## maryjane2029 (May 26, 2014)

i got away from these boards for a while cuz i felt i knew what i needed and such...beenb growing with the CAP 2 gal buckets...switched to the monster controller and 5 gal home depot buckets....liked it, not loved it...hydroton, did not reuse, just threw out and rinsed new batch...watered 3 times per day, once at lights on, mid day, and an hour or two before lights off....used pretty much GH nuts, micro, grow, bloom floralicious plus, calmag, h202, ph down, koolbloom liquid....im seeing opinions all over the place regarding nutes, medium, size of buckets...i mean this thread is 160 pages and the number of times the general consensus on the "right" way to do things has changed probably a dozen times! haha

so one of you thats been here through this journey, weigh in for me...im at a point where i start another grow same ol same old...and like it, not love it....or i will take the general opinion and go for the chance to love something new!


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## maryjane2029 (May 26, 2014)

oh and tea with ebb and gro?! since when?! missed that bandwagon completely!


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## DobermanGuy (Aug 7, 2014)

Can any of you guys help me with a controller problem? I hook things back up this year and notice as the timer hits a flood cycle and the fill light comes on nothing happens. After 5 seconds the pump in the res should kick on but it doesn't. However i can flip the timer to the off(drain) and back to the on (fill) it will start but only when i do this. All floats and water level switches function properly during both fill and drain cycle. So i have to be there every watering to manually cycle the timer for the res pump to energize. Any help would be appreciated by someone with more controller experience than me. Thanks for any help fellas. Warranty is voided is the only reason i'm diving into this.

edit: the relay clicks when i manually flip the timer switches but nothing when it reaches it by itself.


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## Red1966 (Aug 8, 2014)

Sounds like a bad timer.


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## DobermanGuy (Aug 8, 2014)

The more i ask questions the more i think you're right. Ill prolly just pick up a digital version of the grassen timer in my controller box..


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## newjack64 (Dec 10, 2014)

Hay, Im new to this and am setting up my first grew. Sour D is what i have, C.A.P. ebb and grow 24 pots, two Gavita lights with light rails. 12X12 room. Have 4 mother plants to clone from. The whole set up. Ive read that most use GH as there nuti. Is that the best way to go and how should i set up my feeding, 3 times a day or 4.


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## TWS (Jan 18, 2015)

im on page three . I might have some questions in a bout 157 pages but you can find me here .


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## max420thc (Jan 23, 2015)

these are pictures of a flood and drain controller for four stations of control buckets operated off of the same timer,the timers used in most control bucket systems are junk,this is a good commercial quality timer with good floats purchased off of ebay,they are ment to control either flood and drain or ebb and grow systems


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## max420thc (Jan 23, 2015)

basic pic of my room


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## DREAMSPACEY (Jan 23, 2015)

http://rollitup.org/t/serious-problems-with-ebb-n-gro.858201/ having a problem with my controller.the float switch on the bottom doesn't float sometimes and leaves my roots submerged in water. Anyone know what I can do?


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## max420thc (Jan 23, 2015)

take apart care


DREAMSPACEY said:


> http://rollitup.org/t/serious-problems-with-ebb-n-gro.858201/ having a problem with my controller.the float switch on the bottom doesn't float sometimes and leaves my roots submerged in water. Anyone know what I can do?


take it apart ,carefully and clean it,you could use drop of vegtable oil


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## TWS (Jan 24, 2015)

can you use perlite as a medium in this system ?


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## max420thc (Jan 24, 2015)

TWS said:


> can you use perlite as a medium in this system ?


yes it is what I use


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## TWS (Jan 25, 2015)

Thanks max . It's so much easier to vegg and hand water in Hempy buckets and then just move them to the system for flower. How many times a day do you flood your Perlite Max ? I was thinking since it holds water more than hydroton maybe only once or twice a day ? 
My 2 res 18 x 2 site is complete the Res's are full and bubbling off chlorine and running thru the chillers for leak test. today we will flood the system and flood the buckets for leak test. If that goes well we will mix nutes and transplant plants to go in.


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## TWS (Jan 25, 2015)

question..fish tank dechlor:

I bought some Dechlor and it removes Chlorine and Chloramines the label says, but it all so says it neutralizes heavy metals like zinc & Iron & copper and has a chealeting agent in it. will this be bad towards any nutes I add to the system ?


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## max420thc (Jan 25, 2015)

I flood three times a day and let them dry out for a day on Saturday.change res then reflood sunday,I use a tall boy sediment/declorinator .
worth the money,i run bennies,have run zone and h2o2 before,have better results with bennie bacteria


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## max420thc (Jan 25, 2015)




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## max420thc (Jan 25, 2015)

some pics of what it looks lke but came out sideways,one section at 4 weeks another at 2 weeks


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## TWS (Jan 26, 2015)

very nice !


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## TWS (Jan 26, 2015)

K !  my 18 site x 2 on two 55 gal res ( 50gal ) is up and going . I used smart pots inside of the screen buckets to help keep the perlite in . Im going to vegg in smart pot hempys and hand water those for perpetual and just move the pots into the system for flower. How ever Im vegging on it this run to catch up. My clones were pissed off before they got transplanted into the capp system last night and all ready look better.

Man , firkin tap water took 200 mils of PH down to set from 7,5 to 5.8 with 50 gal . Almost a half a bottle for the two rez's . Does that seam abnormal ? And 270 mills each of part A & B which is to be expected. Good thing im not using RO and cal mag. lol Paid for it in PH down. Fluro Duo Ph's RO perfect.

Not sure if one could run many more sites than 18-20 on one rez as the flood uses the better part of 3/4 of it.


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## max420thc (Jan 27, 2015)

I run 36 on 55 gal res,use coffee filters in the bottom of 2 gallon buckets work perfect,get you GH powder ph down in the large pail it is more economical


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## max420thc (Jan 27, 2015)

you will want to change to three quarter hoses and fittings,they are easier to clean and do not jam up as easy


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## grazinChocolope (Jan 27, 2015)

Just saw this thread ive been running smart pots in the grow chamber then use coco mixed with size 3 perlite about 50/50;24 sites, and have had absolutely great results. I only water once for like a month or till they can handle more then up to twice. I bought this back when they were big overall they work fine have better rrsults than when i just used. Hydroton or perlite. Plus the smart pots and whole air pruning really help the roots tear up that pot. It like a hard mat when they r done. Just giving my 2 cents


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## TWS (Jan 27, 2015)

grazinChocolope said:


> Just saw this thread ive been running smart pots in the grow chamber then use coco mixed with size 3 perlite about 50/50;24 sites, and have had absolutely great results. I only water once for like a month or till they can handle more then up to twice. I bought this back when they were big overall they work fine have better rrsults than when i just used. Hydroton or perlite. Plus the smart pots and whole air pruning really help the roots tear up that pot. It like a hard mat when they r done. Just giving my 2 cents



thanks for sharing.


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## TWS (Jan 27, 2015)

max420thc said:


> I run 36 on 55 gal res,use coffee filters in the bottom of 2 gallon buckets work perfect,get you GH powder ph down in the large pail it is more economical


 is the rez down right to the top of the pump ?




max420thc said:


> you will want to change to three quarter hoses and fittings,they are easier to clean and do not jam up as easy


 it must be a pain to inlarge the bucket size hole with a hole all ready started ? it' cost less to just replumb with 1/2" when dirty ?


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## TWS (Jan 27, 2015)

grazinChocolope said:


> Just saw this thread ive been running smart pots in the grow chamber then use coco mixed with size 3 perlite about 50/50;24 sites, and have had absolutely great results. I only water once for like a month or till they can handle more then up to twice. I bought this back when they were big overall they work fine have better rrsults than when i just used. Hydroton or perlite. Plus the smart pots and whole air pruning really help the roots tear up that pot. It like a hard mat when they r done. Just giving my 2 cents


 the coco doesn't throw your rez off ?


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## max420thc (Jan 28, 2015)

on a 55 gallon res running 36 2 gallon there is about 1/3 of the res left on flood,you could run 48 and still have about ten gallons left in the res,if you don't want to change from 1/2 to 3/4 at the bucket use reducing fittings and still run 3/4 hoses,to clean as salt build up will happen in the hoses use super hot water and twist and bend the hoses when cleaning,this will break up the salts stuck to the inside of the hoses ,if you don't it will eventually clog your hoses,clean thouroghly when cycle is done,
a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure


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## newjack64 (Jan 28, 2015)

Hay Guys, Im new to this and not to long ago started my first grow with the CAP system. I have 24 pots, 2 1000w lights on light movers. Im 3 days into flowering and today my plants where dropping. what am I doing wrong? I use GH nu and using the lucus grow with micro and grow.


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## max420thc (Jan 28, 2015)

check res temp,around 65 to 68 is nice,use bennificial bacteria or a product like zone from DM ,check floats check switchs,test flood buckets,check PH,


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## TWS (Jan 30, 2015)

whats a Rez supposed to smell like / earthy, kinda like a fish tank ?


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## max420thc (Jan 31, 2015)

it shouldn't smell


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## TWS (Jan 31, 2015)

thank you. mmm wonder if I have something going on yet that rez is only 6 days old or so and kept at 60 degrees . it doesn't smell foul but kinda like a fish tank or fresh brewed acct tea. Ph drift is stable .


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## max420thc (Jan 31, 2015)

are you using a beneficial bacteria?


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## TWS (Jan 31, 2015)

Yea , I was gonna run sterile since I have the chillers, but didn't want to risk to see if all would be good. Im using Hydroguard.


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## max420thc (Jan 31, 2015)

you should be good as far any bad beasties building a home in your res then,


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## TWS (Feb 5, 2015)

Done.  read the whole thread


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## TWS (Feb 6, 2015)

max420thc said:


> View attachment 3339045



Man that screen is perfect. can you walk all the way around it ? I was think about hanging a screen on some type of movable apparatus and rachettes make perfect sense. how many lights ?


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## TWS (Feb 6, 2015)

max420thc said:


> I flood three times a day and let them dry out for a day on Saturday.change res then reflood sunday,I use a tall boy sediment/declorinator .
> worth the money,i run bennies,have run zone and h2o2 before,have better results with bennie bacteria


15 or 30 min flood ?

Thank you.


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## max420thc (Feb 6, 2015)

I flood for a hour three times a day,you are growing in water.it will push the old oxygen out of the root zone and replace it with fresh oxygen.if I were using rock wool id let it dry better.
im running a lot of lights for a small grow


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## max420thc (Feb 13, 2015)

TWS said:


> Man that screen is perfect. can you walk all the way around it ? I was think about hanging a screen on some type of movable apparatus and rachettes make perfect sense. how many lights ?


sorry I just seen this post, i think ,the screens are made out of one inch thin wall pvc,its lighter,harder to cut,but lighter than the schedule 40,it is just what it looks like,i wish I could walk all around the thing but its against a wall,my area is to small, build a frame just how it looks,then stretch and mount your nets,put it on ratchet straps,moves up out of the way or down,nice and convenient and adjustable,,
what you need to check out is the orca film,you want a big bumb In production?buy a roll of that shit and go to town,
put it on the floors under the plants put it on the walls make curtains out of it,
also,do not glue the joints,just shove them together tight and get some three quarter inch screws with a small drill bit and screw the joints together,also put screws around the edges to you can just hook the net onto the screws,holding it nice and tight,mount straps on the bottom of the frame holding it from the bottom,hope this helps


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## TWS (Feb 18, 2015)

First time running my full room . 36 site ebb n grow pots in perlite smartpots , two 55 gal rez ,2 chillers, 2 K a side and I think it's a 1 ton AC. The Rez's stay set for days and take 5 gal a day each right now . 600 - 650 ppm.

SFVOG, Skywalker, and OG. oh and one sour diesel to see if it's legit. Just flipped them last Friday.


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## Bluecheesy (Apr 19, 2015)

I have a 55 gallon reservoir with 15 5 gallon buckets and I made the mistake of using General hydroponics general organics line. I have 3 " rockwool Grodan blocks on top of hydroton. I'm having problems with leaves not looking right. My ph is always climbing everyday by about. 3 so 5.5 to 5.8 6.1 and go's higher if I do t add ph down. I spent 3000 on all my equipment and really don't want to fail and not get a harvest should I switch to chemical nutes? Or what should I do?


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## i81two (Apr 19, 2015)

Bluecheesy said:


> I have a 55 gallon reservoir with 15 5 gallon buckets and I made the mistake of using General hydroponics general organics line. I have 3 " rockwool Grodan blocks on top of hydroton. I'm having problems with leaves not looking right. My ph is always climbing everyday by about. 3 so 5.5 to 5.8 6.1 and go's higher if I do t add ph down. I spent 3000 on all my equipment and really don't want to fail and not get a harvest should I switch to chemical nutes? Or what should I do?


Use the GH 3 part with the vegan blend at 75 % strength water every 3 hours if your in rocks or hydroton every 6 hours in RW. Add the kool bloom liquid at the flip and don't look back. Give em lots of light, co2 and venalation at night. Peace.


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## max420thc (Apr 20, 2015)

Bluecheesy said:


> I have a 55 gallon reservoir with 15 5 gallon buckets and I made the mistake of using General hydroponics general organics line. I have 3 " rockwool Grodan blocks on top of hydroton. I'm having problems with leaves not looking right. My ph is always climbing everyday by about. 3 so 5.5 to 5.8 6.1 and go's higher if I do t add ph down. I spent 3000 on all my equipment and really don't want to fail and not get a harvest should I switch to chemical nutes? Or what should I do?


If you want to use organic use botanicare pro series,Pro bloom at 12 ml a gallon first two weeks on a 8 week strain ,then 15 ml a gallon through week 4 ,Usw with 2 ml a gallon of cal mag and 5 ml a gallon of silica,
On week 5 use pro soil formula at 15 ml a gallon , drop silica and cal mag out, go with that till week 6, on week seven drop pro soil to 2 ml a gallon,
Your problem is probably coming from mixing rockwool that will hold more moisture than the hydroton,get away from rockwool if you are going to use hydroton, It will stay to wet, If you flood for the hydroton will stay to wet, if you flood for the rockwool the hydroton will not be wet enough,Good luck


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## 420ms3 (Apr 21, 2015)

is this thread still alive? i finally made it to the end....


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## max420thc (Apr 21, 2015)

420ms3 said:


> is this thread still alive? i finally made it to the end....


im here


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## 420ms3 (Apr 24, 2015)

sweet i started reading this thread last year before moving to a house with a basement where i can finally get back into hydro! i went and bought it off craigslist and had been holding onto it until about 2 weeks ago when i set it up.. now u guys are all "cap sux get titan cap sux get green trees, big boy, oxygen pots etc etc". i have been pretty happy with it although i did get hit with pretty bad slime about a week in but now i got a chiller and im on heisenbergs tea.. its seems to be handled


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## 420ms3 (Apr 27, 2015)

@TWS are you using 100% perlite?


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## TWS (Apr 27, 2015)

420ms3 said:


> @TWS are you using 100% perlite?


yes . no complaints here . I did use different brains though. probably just pulled one of my best harvest.


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## 420ms3 (Apr 30, 2015)

awesome, i was thinking of using perlite and rockwool crutons next grow.. so the plants are all in and growing enormous, i have a question though. how should i arrange the big vs small plants in this system since i cant raise the small plants to the light?


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## 420ms3 (May 5, 2015)

TWS said:


> yes . no complaints here . I did use different brains though. probably just pulled one of my best harvest.


post some pics!!


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## TWS (May 5, 2015)

420ms3 said:


> post some pics!!



LOL ! you asked for it 

https://www.rollitup.org/t/t-dubs-tide.862447/





























Og 




my only sour d close up



skywalker with a few SFV showing up front


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## TWS (May 5, 2015)

Skywalker









SFV







Og


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## TWS (May 5, 2015)

We are now replanted and ready to go again. Next up is sour Hawaiian , MK ultra , Woodie OG and some more SFV .


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## 420ms3 (May 6, 2015)

nicely done, that sfv looks bomb!


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## 420ms3 (May 6, 2015)

anyone put any thought into my question above?


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## 420ms3 (May 6, 2015)

how should i arrange the big vs small plants in this system since i cant raise the small plants to the light?


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## 420ms3 (May 7, 2015)

i decided to just stick the smaller/shorter plants in the middle and the larger plants on the outside


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## TWS (May 7, 2015)

maybe think about topping everyone to the same size ?


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## 420ms3 (May 8, 2015)

yea they are all in flowering now so its probably not a good idea to top at this point.. what happened is i was waiting to move to hook up my ebb n gro but wanted to have plants ready to go into the system straight into flowering. so i set up a cheap diy ebb n flow table and grew in that but ended up staying at the old house longer than expected. so the plants outgrew the table and tent to the point that the plants in the middle got crowded and eventually overgrown by the others. like 5 of the 16 were quite a bit smaller when i finally pulled them out of the table.. but even those are like 2-3 ft now in the first week of flower, the big ones are like 4 ft going into flowering. this thing grows monsters im gonna end up outrgrowing my flowering space now.


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## forb1d (May 9, 2015)

So guys I'm at a crossroads. 
I'm trying to choose between tables and buckets. Will use coco and have a gavita 750.

Either greentrees system or a 4x4 table.

Which setup and why?

Tables got versatility while buckets have access and about 5 inches hieght dif


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## 420ms3 (May 28, 2015)

what is good res temp for this system to prevent root rot? im guessing the res needs to be colder than usual due to the water sitting in the buckets and hoses.. i have a chiller but my basement has been getting too hot and i have since developed a bit of rot. they were pearly white until things started heating up recently. planning on running heisenbergs tea also so im not sure what is too cold for the benes


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## effect (May 29, 2015)

forb1d said:


> So guys I'm at a crossroads.
> I'm trying to choose between tables and buckets. Will use coco and have a gavita 750.
> 
> Either greentrees system or a 4x4 table.
> ...



buckets buy you height and the ability to move plants. they are better than tables in most every way, though they take a little longer (slightly) to setup. you can also put a table on the floor and use a brain bucket tot he side, same as the buckets, but you still can't move plants around for access and ordering. the buckets give you a lot of options if you don't need to run something like 4 plants per square foot. if you need one plant per sq foot or two, the buckets rock. the 2gal can support over 4oz worth of root mass. 4oz x 9 plants under a 1k is 36 oz's pretty easily if your environment is decent.


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## Bluecheesy (Jun 2, 2015)

I'm about to harvest out of my 5 gallon square buckets and I have clones that are 4 weeks into flower in one gallon square pots on a flood table with hydroton in pots and a little in bottom of tray. Would I be able to flood that tray and pull out the one gallon pot and just set it inside the 5 gallon pot and put hydroton underneath and around pot inside the 5 gallon and flood like normal. Or would it be better to take them out of one gallon pot then put in 5 gallon? The roots are coming out of the bottom of the one gallon into the tray pretty good. The pictures show both pots I just want to put the little one in the big one and continue flooding and flowering. Would I run into problems doing that?


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## Turbo619 (Dec 25, 2015)

I want to thank everyone who's contributed to this thread (took me 3 weeks!!). I've been growing in ebb and grow buckets for over 10 years and I've learned more from reading this thread than any other resource that's been available to me. I think with my experience, and the knowledge learned from here, I'm gonna take my game to the next level. I plan on mastering this system then move on to the next hydro adventure. Thank you all, and happy holidays.


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## ejwilson (Dec 27, 2015)

I have 2 of these cap systems and the leafs to every plant are starting to droop down. I'm in my 3rd week of flowering and i have it set up to water 3 times a day for 15 minutes while the lights are on.. I have hydroton and a 4" Rockwell in every bucket. Idk what im doing wrong. Am I watering 2 little or 2 much?


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## sgrowdum (Jan 2, 2017)

Bump


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## NeverOutgunned (May 18, 2017)

look up 2 gallon strainer bags on amazon,.
mesh bags to wrap around your inner bucket, no more cleaning out rocks and debris from the bottom of your outer bucket or controller.


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## SheepsBlood (May 22, 2017)

pluto420 said:


> *I have been trying to find a good thread about the cap e & g system but haven't been able to find one yet so thought I would start this and see if I can get a good discussion going and compile a good overall document on the system.
> 
> If you are using the cap e & g system please give your feedback to the following questions and feel free to add anything else of interest you can think of.
> 
> ...


CAP system is fine, no matter how many people bitch that they don't drain completely. Actually, that is good they don't. It act's like a hempy bucket. Protection on the back end.
I have some CAP buckets but most of mine are ActiveAqua.
I feed every 3 hours, nothing during lights off.
I have used expanded clay, sunleaves grow stones, and GrowStone. I don't like GrowStone, sure it's light, it's white, and has micro pores. Though, it raises PH due to being silica based, and isn't very reusable.
As for nutrients. JR Peters Hydropnics 3-2-1 technique all the way through and no bloom boosters.
I spray Snow Storm on them once a week all the way through. NO MOLD AND NO BUD ROT. SUCK IT!
I use Hydroguard and change the VEG tank every 2 weeks and the Flower every week. I also run a chiller at 68F for each 55 gallon tank.
I do a perpetual grow. Yielding 2lbs each month from 2 rooms. I basically veg in one and throw them in and then, a month later throw the next batch in, then pull one out and throw more in...
It's not as efficient in the end as 3 separate rooms would be but I am in a small space with 5K of lighting total.


I DON'T use hose clamps. I haven't had a leak and this system is 2 years old.


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## supdro (May 23, 2017)

SheepsBlood said:


> CAP system is fine, no matter how many people bitch that they don't drain completely. Actually, that is good they don't. It act's like a hempy bucket. Protection on the back end.
> I have some CAP buckets but most of mine are ActiveAqua.
> I feed every 3 hours, nothing during lights off.
> I have used expanded clay, sunleaves grow stones, and GrowStone. I don't like GrowStone, sure it's light, it's white, and has micro pores. Though, it raises PH due to being silica based, and isn't very reusable.
> ...


Let's see some your pics with that Peters nutrient I have use maxi and veg+bloom this is the next dry I would like to try


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## SheepsBlood (May 30, 2017)

supdro said:


> Let's see some your pics with that Peters nutrient I have use maxi and veg+bloom this is the next dry I would like to try


I just checked my alerts, so I will get some photos up tomorrow.
I just chopped this months harvest. Yielded 2.5 lbs, 8 plants. I had a lapse, that's why I only had 8 growing vs my typical 16 going in the bloom room each month. Though with 16, I yield about 2 per 8 plants. So of course total is around 4lbs. If I put effort into doing ScROG I know you can potentially get 7 lbs per 4000watts. (less than 2% was small/fluff)
Stanky Dank and like a christmas tree. I will upload photos of current line.
Previously, I stated 2 lbs. That is an average over 12 months. I do a major shut down in the fall do to my outdoor summer harvest and cleaning/upgrading the grow rooms each year. Maybe this year I can successfully say I grow 4 lbs each month steady.

So yes, realistically, if you did a full run and not my way of perpetual, you would get up to 8 lbs possibly. Though that would only be every 3 months. If you had 2 5x5 rooms with 4000 watts each, you could get a solid 7 - 8 lbs each month.
Plus, you don't have to run two systems, but you will have to check water level daily. My plants suck up about 4 gallons per day in flower. Part of it is plants, the other is probably dehumidification. I don't reclaim my dehumidifier water, maybe this year if I upgrade to a split AC.


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## Eric WILSON (Jun 6, 2017)

NeverOutgunned said:


> look up 2 gallon strainer bags on amazon,.
> mesh bags to wrap around your inner bucket, no more cleaning out rocks and debris from the bottom of your outer bucket or controller.


Won't the rockwool cube be soaked all the time ?


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## blackrex (Apr 26, 2020)

Hope people are around, I liked forever, purchaseing one second hand but fairly new tomorrow and I am gonna have questions, it's a 12 pot cap system with 55 gal res I believe. Running green planet nutrients gp3 gonna switch to pure blend pro seems to be easier to get, I'm in a dumb state so I'm just doing "veggies". My space is 8x8 cap 4 light controller 2000watts in cool tubes, getting actual vented hoods soon. Just seedlings now so not really feeding yet just super thrive and pHed water. Was gonna do dwc bubble buckets. I have gro experience with the pureblend pro in a 50/50 perlite Coco mix and had excellent results. Hoping for the same or better in a 12 site ebb and grow with pure blend. Unless I can find someone that doesn't take a month to ship my nutes. Any advice appreciated


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## blackrex (Apr 28, 2020)

blackrex said:


> Hope people are around, I liked forever, purchaseing one second hand but fairly new tomorrow and I am gonna have questions, it's a 12 pot cap system with 55 gal res I believe. Running green planet nutrients gp3 gonna switch to pure blend pro seems to be easier to get, I'm in a dumb state so I'm just doing "veggies". My space is 8x8 cap 4 light controller 2000watts in cool tubes, getting actual vented hoods soon. Just seedlings now so not really feeding yet just super thrive and pHed water. Was gonna do dwc bubble buckets. I have gro experience with the pureblend pro in a 50/50 perlite Coco mix and had excellent results. Hoping for the same or better in a 12 site ebb and grow with pure blend. Unless I can find someone that doesn't take a month to ship my nutes. Any advice appreciated


So got the system up and running, I'll post pics tomorrow. It was all clogged up, got her clean and washed and everything transplanted. What a nightmare to clean the damn thing, I see why the previous owners crop didn't work out, gotta clean it once in a while.


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## Mmcary82 (May 3, 2020)

The old Capp ebb and gro systems are okay. I would recommend raising the inner bucket over a inch because the buckets don’t drain compleatly. You can use hydroton or a few cutoff pieces of pvc, that way your roots arnt sitting in stagnant water. The new grow flow buckets are a better design they drain from the bottom and will work with your old system. Overall it’s a good system. If your growing in straight hydroton your going to want to flood every 2 or 3 hours durring the lights on period. If you have any questions on it let me know.


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## Renfro (May 3, 2020)

Mmcary82 said:


> The old Capp ebb and gro systems are okay


I haven't used an ebb and gro system but I like the concept. I hear of users having issues with the float switch mechanisms though. My idea was to apply their controller to a system using larger size sites, reservoir and pumps. Something I would like to play around with someday. Do you know what is the difference between the old style and the new style as far as the controller part is concerned? Is it reliable? Should I just build my own?


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## max420thc (May 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I haven't used an ebb and gro system but I like the concept. I hear of users having issues with the float switch mechanisms though. My idea was to apply their controller to a system using larger size sites, reservoir and pumps. Something I would like to play around with someday. Do you know what is the difference between the old style and the new style as far as the controller part is concerned? Is it reliable? Should I just build my own?


The ebb and grow systems are awsome, the capp system is junk, the floats get stuck , it's not hard to make a industrial strength one with a good times and good floats, I have some pictures on my computer back home showing how to make one, you could make the buckets as large as you need, when I get back home I will also post a picture if you want of the plants I am growing under double neders now, freaking massive plants for indoors , the room is not set correctly yet as am helping another grower raise production and quality up, this is in Michigan, I have to hand it to you , you have skills,


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## DailyBlastin (May 4, 2020)

pluto420 said:


> Yeah I am done with my stg experiment in this system. But with the rocks it is great.
> 
> If you want to do a good cleaning or rearrange the buckets how do you go about getting the water out of the controller bucket, lines, and outer buckets without getting water everywhere?


 as far as not getting water everywhere my best attempts at that (still got some water on the floor but not much) was done by temporarily elevating my pots with some 2x4s just enough to get all the water to run back to the control bucket, then using one of these bad boys to suck it out of the control and spit into a 5gal bucket to be dumped outside.


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## blackrex (May 9, 2020)

So all is well transplanted those girls three days ago, afgan kush clones, and a blue haze, do they look ok. I'm using pbg and green planet gp3 for everything else the micro, the bloom and the vita thrive. Any help appreciated.


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## blackrex (May 9, 2020)

Also oh is like 6.0 and ppms is like 512.


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## blackrex (May 9, 2020)

blackrex said:


> Also oh is like 6.0 and ppms is like 512.


Ph not oh


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## blackrex (May 9, 2020)

max420thc said:


> The ebb and grow systems are awsome, the capp system is junk, the floats get stuck , it's not hard to make a industrial strength one with a good times and good floats, I have some pictures on my computer back home showing how to make one, you could make the buckets as large as you need, when I get back home I will also post a picture if you want of the plants I am growing under double neders now, freaking massive plants for indoors , the room is not set correctly yet as am helping another grower raise production and quality up, this is in Michigan, I have to hand it to you , you have skills,


Hey if ur gonna post those pics I'd be interested, I check my floats functionality everyday wipe them down make sure they aren't sticking make sure they do what they are supposed to. But def looking for a diff set up. Wanna do the oxygen pot style. Any opinions, failed miserably at building a rdwc, gonna try again tho.


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## Mmcary82 (May 11, 2020)

blackrex said:


> Hey if ur gonna post those pics I'd be interested, I check my floats functionality everyday wipe them down make sure they aren't sticking make sure they do what they are supposed to. But def looking for a diff set up. Wanna do the oxygen pot style. Any opinions, failed miserably at building a rdwc, gonna try again tho.





blackrex said:


> Hey if ur gonna post those pics I'd be interested, I check my floats functionality everyday wipe them down make sure they aren't sticking make sure they do what they are supposed to. But def looking for a diff set up. Wanna do the oxygen pot style. Any opinions, failed miserably at building a rdwc, gonna try again tho.


the bubble pot / oxygen pot system is simple and great for winter time or if you have a way to keep your water temps down like a chiller or a good climate controlled space. I wouldnt recommend it otherwise because your roots sit in water and as the water temps rise much over 75f degrees, water cannot hold enough O2 for the roots and that warm of water also invites a lot of trouble, disease, algae etc.


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## Mmcary82 (May 11, 2020)

blackrex said:


> Hey if ur gonna post those pics I'd be interested, I check my floats functionality everyday wipe them down make sure they aren't sticking make sure they do what they are supposed to. But def looking for a diff set up. Wanna do the oxygen pot style. Any opinions, failed miserably at building a rdwc, gonna try again tho.





Renfro said:


> I haven't used an ebb and gro system but I like the concept. I hear of users having issues with the float switch mechanisms though. My idea was to apply their controller to a system using larger size sites, reservoir and pumps. Something I would like to play around with someday. Do you know what is the difference between the old style and the new style as far as the controller part is concerned? Is it reliable? Should I just build my own?


yeah I’ve never had an issue with the float systems As I do a clean / sanitize in between grow cycles but I could see that for sure with a larger more commercial operation with heavy salt build up or sticky organic foam gumming it up a bit. If that became a issue and wasn’t a feasible way the remedy the situation I would defiantly be aggravated and build a more dependable controller bucket for sure. I think for what it is, the simplicity, the price point, it’s a good introduction into hydroponics and a good solid option for the small scale hobby growers. Which is the majority of growers. With a few cycles under your belt you can modify what you have or take a trip to the hardware store and design a badass system. Now that you have a understanding of how ebb and grow bucket systems work.


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## blackrex (May 11, 2020)

Mmcary82 said:


> the bubble pot / oxygen pot system is simple and great for winter time or if you have a way to keep your water temps down like a chiller or a good climate controlled space. I wouldnt recommend it otherwise because your roots sit in water and as the water temps rise much over 75f degrees, water cannot hold enough O2 for the roots and that warm of water also invites a lot of trouble, disease, algae etc.


I am in a basement so temps are easy to remedy always about 65 in there, my res is obviously outside my actual room. In my room ambient temp is 78 degrees with 60% rh and night time stays anywhere between 65 and 78 in the room with my girls, about 45%rh is the lowest humidity has gotten. My tap water comes out the tap about 170ppm and about 50 degrees year round, also out the tap pH is 7.0. so I have other issues gonna invest in a 500 gallon vat of ph down if any one is interested in a group buy. Haha


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## Mmcary82 (Jun 2, 2020)

blackrex said:


> I am in a basement so temps are easy to remedy always about 65 in there, my res is obviously outside my actual room. In my room ambient temp is 78 degrees with 60% rh and night time stays anywhere between 65 and 78 in the room with my girls, about 45%rh is the lowest humidity has gotten. My tap water comes out the tap about 170ppm and about 50 degrees year round, also out the tap pH is 7.0. so I have other issues gonna invest in a 500 gallon vat of ph down if any one is interested in a group buy. Haha


My tap water is 60ppm and a ph of 5.6..i live under a aquifer.. really good water.


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## Joe80 (Sep 19, 2020)

I've used trough floats for years never had a problem. They are like 10 bucks at tractor supply. I thought I could do better with undercurrent or coco. Currently rebuilding my systems.


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## TS23 (Nov 8, 2020)

Where is the cheapest place to buy grodan croutons in bulk? I am needing to fill 96 active aqua 2 gallon buckets


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## ThaMagnificent (Nov 10, 2020)

l


TS23 said:


> Where is the cheapest place to buy grodan croutons in bulk? I am needing to fill 96 active aqua 2 gallon buckets


local hydro shop is where I get mine. Bitch to ship something that big


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## Mrblaze212 (Jul 15, 2022)

I have a hydrofarm ebb and grow 5 gal system. The roots keep clogging the drain lines in early flower, I even trimmed the roots twice in veg. Any suggestions to solve this problem?
I am thinking fabric pots in the unit or possible paint strainer bags. 
Thanks for any help


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