# A/C vs. IceBox & Water Chiller



## jnyce1320 (May 26, 2010)

Im wondering which would be more efficient on cooling and electrical costs. Using a window a/c in a room or using icebox on the reflector with a water chiller and water pump?


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## Greenspace (Oct 12, 2010)

jnyce1320 said:


> Im wondering which would be more efficient on cooling and electrical costs. Using a window a/c in a room or using icebox on the reflector with a water chiller and water pump?


Good question. I have been thinking of this lately too after having watched the Hydro Innovations video. 
Although the idea of using water sounds very cool, it seem to me that some of the efficiency is in fact lost in the process.

In case of using Air Conditioning to cool the air directly inside the room the compressor pumps freon (or other refrigerant) through the coils of evaporator (the cold radiator of ac unit, which does the same thing as the ice box) and the air is blown over the evaporator of ac and is cooled. Meaning the evaporator component of ac unit is functionally identical to Ice Box.

Now water cooled option:
Water chiller is effectively exactly the same thing as an air conditioner, except that its evaporator coils (through which exactly the same refrigerant is pumped by the same compressor) cools water it is submerged into, instead of directly cooling the air like in the air conditioner. And then there is another circuit, which moves this chilled water through another evaporator coil (aka in hydroponic water cooling context as "Ice Box"), which in turn cools the air, thus doing what evaporator coil of the same water cooler could have done just as well (or more effectively) if it had this air blown though it directly. 

Water chiller setup involves a redundant circuit of water circulating through another evaporator coil. This adds another coil, lots of extra tubing and an extra water pump. 
Overall, I would imagine, that the thermodynamic efficiency of water chiller and ice box is probably very close to that of an AC unit. But it is redundant and involves many unnecessary components (therefore: more things to break down).


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## Greenspace (Oct 12, 2010)

The claim that water cooling the grow room is more efficient than using air conditioning system seems groundless to me because the same exact method of heat removal is used in both cases, and water cooling involves more watts or energy used per btu of heat removed.
There is however one possible advantage of water cooling (I should say: utilizing refrigerant lines) to remove heat from grow room space. And that is the option of completely isolating the grow room with no air leaving it or coming in. This, however is only an advantage if water cooling is compared to window mounted A/C units. Split air conditioning units, aka: mini splits, heat pumps or ductless a/c do the same job but for far less money than complex and very expensive water chilled setups.
I am currently designing a sealed setup for a medical grower and will post updates and info.


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## Greenspace (Oct 12, 2010)

I was pricing out some equipment and was amazed at price differential between water chillers and air conditioners of equivalent btu, ratings.
Then realized that most likely this difference is due to one part - titanium condenser (cooling coil) that has to be chemically non reactive to protect living organisms in aquariums that these chillers are designed for. In application where the water is used to merely cool the air and not to feed plants or cool a fish tank, this is useless. 
I would use a different (proper) small water cooler for nutrient reservoir.

There are really cool threads here on how to make an efficient water chiller from a $30 window ac unit.
As for sealed grow rooms:

Split air conditioning unit is the most efficient way to go, imo, for mid to lagre size ops. And for small grow rooms and grow tents either diy water chiller with ice box (which can easily be made from a cheap car heater core or radiator) is the way to go.
Mini splits start at 9000 btus which is enough to cool 2k watt setup and cost from $400 used to $1000 or so new. Installation is much easier than the specialists would have you beleive.
Good luck all.


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## q3aserver (Oct 12, 2010)

Water cooling is a much more effective method. Once the water gets to its temperature it will hold it much easier. I was running out the door when I decided to look at 1 last thread. But if someone else chimes in before I get back then great.


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## BuddGreen (Oct 12, 2010)

This is how I kept my nutes cool.



Pic1- I pump from the Control Rez to my 3 planters.
Pic2- The return flow and dual Oxy Stones move the nutes around the frozen 2-liter.
Pic3- 8 in the freezer and one in the rez.


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## Greenspace (Oct 13, 2010)

There is no difference between so called water called water cooled grow room setups and using air conditioning.
Although you are right about the thermodynamic properties of water, it is, however, of no relevance to this comparison, as in both cases heat absorption is performed by the same freon filler radiator of a chiller or ac unit.
Ice box does exactly the same thing as the air conditioner used directly in the room - it cools the air blown through it. And how much heat it is capable of absorbing is dependent completely and fully upon the btu rating of water chiller, which is functionally identical to ac.


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## ASFx (Mar 6, 2011)

The one big difference that nobody has mentioned yet is power/amp draw. AC units use far more power. A 1/10 HP chiller can bring a 40 gallon reservoir down to 55 degrees in about 24 hours, while only drawing 150-200 watts of power, and around 2.2 amps. Once the res is at 55 degrees, the exhaust air should be no warmer than 75 degrees which is perfect. A 12,000 BTW AC unit draws around 11 amps and 1200 watts of power. After looking at all these numbers, an icebox setup seems far more efficient in my opinion. That's a very significant power savings.


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## B18sleeper420 (May 17, 2011)

I have to agree I'd like to see an actual wattage/amperage comparison but to say that just using a 1/10 hp aquachiler is in any way comparable to a 12000 btu( 1 ton) ac unit is foolish. First of all the ac is directly cooling the air inside the room whereas the chiller just the reservoir. To add a icebox would require an inline hi output pump/ plumbing/manifold and the small chiller won't effectively cool the water to run one either..The water pump is a decent amount of draw mixed with the required 2 ton chiller/1hp external pump/and 4-6 iceboxes. these numbers compared to say a 2 ton mini split ...(the new DC inverter ones use even less energy since the pump slows for requirements)....idk either way I think I'm going with the mini split ..... Just my .02


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## Todesengel (May 17, 2011)

ASFx said:


> The one big difference that nobody has mentioned yet is power/amp draw. AC units use far more power. A 1/10 HP chiller can bring a 40 gallon reservoir down to 55 degrees in about 24 hours, while only drawing 150-200 watts of power, and around 2.2 amps. Once the res is at 55 degrees, the exhaust air should be no warmer than 75 degrees which is perfect. A 12,000 BTW AC unit draws around 11 amps and 1200 watts of power. After looking at all these numbers, an icebox setup seems far more efficient in my opinion. That's a very significant power savings.


I'm gonna throw the BS flag right here. I have a 1/4hp JBJ Artica chiller, and they are not designed to cool below 20 degrees below ambient. Infact, most 1/10hp to 1/3hp can only cool 20-25degrees below ambient RUNNING THE COMPRESSOR 24/7! I spoke with JBJ tech support and they informed me that in any low end chiller, the compressors is a tropical compressor and not a cold water compressor. Using a low end chiller is not efficient in ANYWAY possible. 

I am running an 8" Icebox, an 700cfm fan, 50gallon cooling res, and the 1/4hp chiller. With my 1000w bulb, ambient temps in my sealed 7x7 closet hit 81 degress with 85% RH. Keep in mind the chiller compressor was running 24/7 too.

Long story short, I am ditching the icebox for a portable AC unit and I will just have to deal with the c02 loss through the venting. Unless I can find a 3/4hp chiller for cheap somewhere, but I don't think its gonna happen.


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## uhavealighter? (Feb 17, 2012)

Todesengel said:


> I'm gonna throw the BS flag right here. I have a 1/4hp JBJ Artica chiller, and they are not designed to cool below 20 degrees below ambient. Infact, most 1/10hp to 1/3hp can only cool 20-25degrees below ambient RUNNING THE COMPRESSOR 24/7! I spoke with JBJ tech support and they informed me that in any low end chiller, the compressors is a tropical compressor and not a cold water compressor. Using a low end chiller is not efficient in ANYWAY possible.
> 
> I am running an 8" Icebox, an 700cfm fan, 50gallon cooling res, and the 1/4hp chiller. With my 1000w bulb, ambient temps in my sealed 7x7 closet hit 81 degress with 85% RH. Keep in mind the chiller compressor was running 24/7 too.
> 
> Long story short, I am ditching the icebox for a portable AC unit and I will just have to deal with the c02 loss through the venting. Unless I can find a 3/4hp chiller for cheap somewhere, but I don't think its gonna happen.


Get a split a/c unit. those wont exchange air and do not require any ducting. Heres a 12,000 btu split a/c unit for $1000. https://rasahydroponics.com/climate-control/air-conditioners/aura-mini-split-air-conditioners


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## Boyz N Da Hood (Feb 17, 2012)

Interesting info here fosho!


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## phillipchristian (Feb 17, 2012)

Check this thread out

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/511767-water-cooled-grow-rooms.html


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## Boyz N Da Hood (Feb 17, 2012)

Interesting info here fosho!


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## gladstoned (Mar 24, 2012)

Todesengel said:


> I'm gonna throw the BS flag right here. I have a 1/4hp JBJ Artica chiller, and they are not designed to cool below 20 degrees below ambient. Infact, most 1/10hp to 1/3hp can only cool 20-25degrees below ambient RUNNING THE COMPRESSOR 24/7! I spoke with JBJ tech support and they informed me that in any low end chiller, the compressors is a tropical compressor and not a cold water compressor. Using a low end chiller is not efficient in ANYWAY possible.
> 
> I am running an 8" Icebox, an 700cfm fan, 50gallon cooling res, and the 1/4hp chiller. With my 1000w bulb, ambient temps in my sealed 7x7 closet hit 81 degress with 85% RH. Keep in mind the chiller compressor was running 24/7 too.
> 
> Long story short, I am ditching the icebox for a portable AC unit and I will just have to deal with the c02 loss through the venting. Unless I can find a 3/4hp chiller for cheap somewhere, but I don't think its gonna happen.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECOPLUS-1-HP-COMMERCIAL-GRADE-WATER-CHILLER-/400201921194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2de4b2aa

I would like to know how good this would work


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## phillipchristian (Mar 24, 2012)

gladstoned said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECOPLUS-1-HP-COMMERCIAL-GRADE-WATER-CHILLER-/400201921194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2de4b2aa
> 
> I would like to know how good this would work


Seems a little pricey to me for a 1hp EcoPlus. All these people doing water cooling are just using the application wrong. That guy you quoted actually stated in his post why it wasn't working. He had a 1/4hp chiller with a 50 gallon reservoir. He would be a lot more efficient with a 25 gallon reservoir on a chiller that small. He said he had a 1000w light with 1 Ice Box. If you stick an Ice Box on a 1000w light then you will cool the exhaust from the light but not the ambient room temps or the heat created by dehumidifiers, pumps, ballasts, etc... For every Ice Box you have you need a 1/4hp of chilling.


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## budleydoright (Mar 24, 2012)

Water cooled can be much more effecient, but it does have to be done properly and at a certain scale to be worth doing.



> Long story short, I am ditching the icebox for a portable AC unit and I will just have to deal with the c02 loss through the venting. Unless I can find a 3/4hp chiller for cheap somewhere, but I don't think its gonna happen.


build one out of a window ac. a 6000btu is about 1/2 hp but will do it. Of course it will also do the room bare bulb if there's enough volume in there.


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## Shrubs First (Apr 9, 2012)

Greenspace said:


> The claim that water cooling the grow room is more efficient than using air conditioning system seems groundless to me because the same exact method of heat removal is used in both cases, and water cooling involves more watts or energy used per btu of heat removed.
> There is however one possible advantage of water cooling (I should say: utilizing refrigerant lines) to remove heat from grow room space. And that is the option of completely isolating the grow room with no air leaving it or coming in. This, however is only an advantage if water cooling is compared to window mounted A/C units. Split air conditioning units, aka: mini splits, heat pumps or ductless a/c do the same job but for far less money than complex and very expensive water chilled setups.
> I am currently designing a sealed setup for a medical grower and will post updates and info.


Water is 9x more absorbant of heat than air, and can hold 20x more of the energy.


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## KI11TH3W3AK (Apr 9, 2012)

depends on what type of water cooling u are doing in my area humidity stays hella low so swamp cooler style coolers work amazing and are way energy efficient its just a fan...a small example of this is vicks cool air humidifier its $20 lol just depends on your area


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## budleydoright (Apr 9, 2012)

But you can't run a co2 enriched sealed room with an evaporative cooler.


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## unity (Apr 10, 2012)

Todesengel said:


> I'm gonna throw the BS flag right here. I have a 1/4hp JBJ Artica chiller, and they are not designed to cool below 20 degrees below ambient. Infact, most 1/10hp to 1/3hp can only cool 20-25degrees below ambient RUNNING THE COMPRESSOR 24/7! I spoke with JBJ tech support and they informed me that in any low end chiller, the compressors is a tropical compressor and not a cold water compressor. Using a low end chiller is not efficient in ANYWAY possible.
> 
> I am running an 8" Icebox, an 700cfm fan, 50gallon cooling res, and the 1/4hp chiller. With my 1000w bulb, ambient temps in my sealed 7x7 closet hit 81 degress with 85% RH. Keep in mind the chiller compressor was running 24/7 too.
> 
> Long story short, I am ditching the icebox for a portable AC unit and I will just have to deal with the c02 loss through the venting. Unless I can find a 3/4hp chiller for cheap somewhere, but I don't think its gonna happen.


Dude, pm me, there are some easy solutions that will eliminate co2 loss with portable ac units


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## unity (Apr 10, 2012)

Guys, the scale is completely wrong for using water coils.
We need larger applications i.e. hospitals, office buildings etc. to make chillers practical. (not talking aquarium chillers for nutrient tanks here). We can serve dozens of water coils with one chiller, where as we only feed a single evaporator with package or split systems. Yes, some refrigeration applications serve multiple evaporators (super market refrigeration for example), but that is not what we are talking about. 
Just look at it this way, if it was more economical we would be using it as our primary air conditioning in the residential market. If you have a ground water source close by (big ass tank under ground, or a lake) then we can start to talk possible benefits, other then that it is not going to be more economical, in fact the opposite is true!


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## Doer (Apr 10, 2012)

I use a 100 gal of water outdoors, on the shade side, in a garbage bin. That will sink a 1000w Fresca Sol quite well. 
For the Summer, I can add a window AC with it's chiller coil in the water for the very hot days and for the medium hot days, I pump to the dis-used hot tub that has a sprayer set in a foot of water at the bottom. Air evap cooling. 

If I can remove the light's heat, I can place it 4-5 inches above the plant. Much better. The room heat I can take care of with air circulation from under the house.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

unity said:


> Guys, the scale is completely wrong for using water coils.
> We need larger applications i.e. hospitals, office buildings etc. to make chillers practical. (not talking aquarium chillers for nutrient tanks here). We can serve dozens of water coils with one chiller, where as we only feed a single evaporator with package or split systems. Yes, some refrigeration applications serve multiple evaporators (super market refrigeration for example), but that is not what we are talking about.
> Just look at it this way, if it was more economical we would be using it as our primary air conditioning in the residential market. If you have a ground water source close by (big ass tank under ground, or a lake) then we can start to talk possible benefits, other then that it is not going to be more economical, in fact the opposite is true!


You are actually incorrect. I currently run a 12hp chiller. They are actually more efficient then an a/c unit, remove heat faster, use less electricity, and will run less because of this. I have a 5 ton water cooled air handler on my chiller and it runs about half the time when the lights are on and 25% of the time when they are off. Before that I had 2 24,000btu minisplit, 1 18,000btu minisplit, and a 12,000btu minisplit throughout the entire op and almost all of them ran 60=80% of the time. Nothing else has changed except now I run less fans. My electrical bill dropped almost 40%.

More and more homes are actually using the technology now and as advances are made and more companies start making chillers for residential purposes then you will start to see the prices drop. I have a 5hp chiller for my house that runs 2 3ton air handlers. I build high end spec homes for a living and we are actually using the systems in a lof of our installations now because of the efficiency and savings of them.


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## unity (Apr 10, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> You are actually incorrect. I currently run a 12hp chiller. They are actually more efficient then an a/c unit, remove heat faster, use less electricity, and will run less because of this. I have a 5 ton water cooled air handler on my chiller and it runs about half the time when the lights are on and 25% of the time when they are off. Before that I had 2 24,000btu minisplit, 1 18,000btu minisplit, and a 12,000btu minisplit throughout the entire op and almost all of them ran 60=80% of the time. Nothing else has changed except now I run less fans. My electrical bill dropped almost 40%.
> 
> More and more homes are actually using the technology now and as advances are made and more companies start making chillers for residential purposes then you will start to see the prices drop. I have a 5hp chiller for my house that runs 2 3ton air handlers. I build high end spec homes for a living and we are actually using the systems in a lof of our installations now because of the efficiency and savings of them.



Dude, if you are going to talk shit on me, at least read the post.

"Just look at it this way, if it was more economical we would be using it as our primary air conditioning in the residential market. If you have a ground water source close by (big ass tank underground, or a lake) then we can start to talk possible benefits, other then that it is not going to be more economical, in fact the opposite is true!"

That is what I said, and I stand by it. If your split systems had higher operating costs then the 12hp chiller & 5 ton air handler, they were not installed proper, sorry. There are many factors that can reduce cooling capacity. 
Your chiller may be more efficient by itself lol, but by the time you send the chilled water through the water coil you have used additional pumps, as well as a air handler and your actual temperature drop is far lower on a water coil then an refrigerant coil, sorry facts bro. Your maintenance on a chiller systems is far higher etc. By the time you are done on a small application it will not save you money over a mini split. 


Now, one the reason chillers are more economical is because we burry the water holding tanks in the ground (constant temperature of around 60f in California) and actually run the chiller at night when electricity rates are far lower and use the chilled water during the day, but I wouldn't want to let technical info get in the way of you correcting me.

Bottom line is the chillers are great and can save money in the right application. At this point they are not more economical in typical residential applications. And we have not even started to talk about the effect water has on the piping and its associated maintenance.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

unity said:


> Dude, if you are going to talk shit on me, at least read the post.
> 
> "Just look at it this way, if it was more economical we would be using it as our primary air conditioning in the residential market. If you have a ground water source close by (big ass tank underground, or a lake) then we can start to talk possible benefits, other then that it is not going to be more economical, in fact the opposite is true!"
> 
> ...


You really are clueless man. I wasn't talking shit to you but you can take it how you want. Your info is STILL wrong.

First off my minisplits weren't installed incorrectly. We've been doing this a while now; we know how to install a minisplit. The running costs on my chiller include the pumps as any chiller over 2hp has internal pumps and reservoirs. Nice try though. Your air handler is basically just a blower so I'm using about 500watts to run that. I know a lot about electricity and I can tell when my draw is less and when my bill is less. What maintenance on chiller systems are you talking about. They are the same principle as HVAC systems without the refrigerant running all over the place. They are actually easier to maintain and any parts that need to be replaced cost the same as an hvac unit would.

Burry holding tanks? You have to be joking. We are talking about 36,000-120,000btu of cooling. Not talking about cooling a skyscraper. Actually, the smaller your reservoir the more efficiently your chiller works. My 12hp chiller has 2 30gal reservoirs. It only has 2 because I need water at 2 different temps in my room. A good way to DIY a chiller line is to do this but if you are buying a commercial chiller then you aren't burying shit dude.

Your "fact bro" are WAY off. Before you start criticizing people you might actually want to research what you are talking about. Or maybe have a little practical application in the field. The fact that you talk about the "effect water has on piping" goes to show m you have no clue what you are talking about. Are you unable to PVC 2 pipes together then maybe you should stay away from water cooling. Maybe you should stay away from household repairs in general. How do you think the water lies to your faucets and showers are piped?

Don't try and talk shit about a subject you have no clue about. ALL of you information is wrong. So wrong I'm literally laughing at you right now.


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## budleydoright (Apr 11, 2012)

Doer said:


> I use a 100 gal of water outdoors, on the shade side, in a garbage bin. That will sink a 1000w Fresca Sol quite well.
> For the Summer, I can add a window AC with it's chiller coil in the water for the very hot days and for the medium hot days, I pump to the dis-used hot tub that has a sprayer set in a foot of water at the bottom. Air evap cooling.
> 
> If I can remove the light's heat, I can place it 4-5 inches above the plant. Much better. The room heat I can take care of with air circulation from under the house.


Frescas are nice but I wouldn;t buy into the 100 gallons per 1k myth. Maybe if it's real cold outside, my 1k could bring 100 gallons to over 100 degrees within a 12 hour cycle. Still works great and removes tons of heat though. 

Also, while it is possible to run a 1k in a fresca a few inches from the plant tops without starting a fire, You will fry your babies. They still need to be kept at the recommended distance less 6 or 8" to offset the loss from the water and glass. Trust me on this one. I thought the same thing, I put 2 1ks in frescas with a chiller and 60 degree water in the magnum reflectors. Even 12" off the plants and they are pale ass yellow in 2 days. There is such a thing as too much light. I also noticed focused bands of hot spots with my frescas. Let me know if you experience the same thing.

I still own 3 units and a 1/2 hp homemade chiller. I certainly won't say I'll never use them again, but it just became to complex for my dyslexic brain.


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## dabbish (Apr 28, 2012)

unity said:


> ...if it was more economical we would be using it as our primary air conditioning in the residential market.


No because the applications are totally different. With air cooling you are lowering the heat from the HPS bulbs, not the ambient room temperature. That's a huge difference.


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## Stonefree69 (Aug 25, 2012)

Maybe they are more efficient than mini-splits. I wanted to do a mod and either have water dripping on the outside coils of a mini-split (that could be tricky to do though right) or using a pool or hot tub for the heat sink. You can't argue with earth/water cooling being more efficient than just air exchange. Still I don't agree at all on how they use the lighting for the HydroGen. *Hard to beat a vertical bare bulb donut grow for gpw! *Can't argue who gets more PAR to your plants.


Edit: Whoops, seems there are a lot of Ice Box returns and used ones up for sale (but the store owners still "love 'em"). I think NASA may even scratch their heads it looks so complicated - at least compared to spending $15 for a bare bulb mogul socket (or 2)...  

It also has been tried for many decades - water cooling the outside condenser coils on an ac system w/mist systems. Any experienced HVAC tech will steer clear from them, and they can be a major PITA. Places in Texas won't let you install them because you're wasting too much water (not recirculated).

2 things that have reliably improved the technology: evap coolers used w/ac (our 10,000 sq ft family store actually used them), or geothermal source heat pumps. I do really like the idea of burying a nice sized water tank for a geothermal/water system, even put a fan + recirculating pump to reduce tank size and keep water cooler. The tds will eventually go up in the water tank using the fan part, unless you can reuse some water (call it grey water?) for the garden... Can also use solar hot water panels to help heat the underground water tank in winter (SEER can go thru the roof).


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## DrGribble (Aug 27, 2012)

unity said:


> Dude, pm me, there are some easy solutions that will eliminate co2 loss with portable ac units


Can you PM me this info, it's exactly what I am looking for as I can't install a minisplit easily in my basement, I wanted a 10,000-12,000 BTU in-room unit, like one I found at walmart for $400... wanted Co2 as well, lol, that all together seemed to rain on my parade, I tried to PM you but I think since I have no post count I am unable to do so..


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## Warlock1369 (Aug 27, 2012)

Would say scooby is the man to talk to but this is old and his old account already was on this.


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## subcool fan (Sep 11, 2012)

chillers are the way to go. no doubt. i have built a 5k -rez and 11k -lights. but the 11k cant keep up. so im going to sell those off and work on this 18k that i just purchased. 

what i know beyond a shadow of a doubt.... is chilling air with water is much more efficient than chilling air with air. chilling the air at each and every light is way better than having a duct blowing cool air that is mounted to a wall ten feet away. just my two cents.


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## SOMEBEECH (Sep 11, 2012)

*Wow i own a HVAC bus.and theres some Smart ppl in this Thread.Never thought id be hearing Geo Thermal apps,and Marijuana grows in the same thread.Its all about the AMP DRAW.And personal prefference.

BEECH*


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## phxrocks (Sep 12, 2012)

Get a good chiller. I have a 1/2 hp active aqua. 2 lights and 3 ice boxes. It was so hot in the garage where the chiller is located, it was difficult to get the water temp down to 70 f. Scooby helped me a bit. He suggested 1 pump from res to chiller in a constant loop cooling the res. Use a 2nd pump to run into the ice boxes. This wasn't very effective until I put the 2nd pump, to the ice boxes, on a timer. On for 15 minutes,Off for 15 minutes. While this pump is off, the water temp will drop from 80 f down to 65-67. I also use an a/c. I was only running 1 600 watt, and I just turned the second 600 light on. Temps in the sealed room are 85-90 with lights on. Its' 100 f outside where the chiller is located. I'm sure it will run cooler in the winter.
I would like to get a 2hp chillking, run 2 x 1000 watts each with an ice box, 1 ice box on a carbon scrubber as a spot a/c, and use the chiller to maintain low nutrient temps too. 
Water cooling takes some patience, and NoOne at my local hydro store was any help at all. Learned it all on RitUp. Thanks scooby, 3 weeks into the purple kush 

I got lots of a/c's for sale;
3 window mounts 8k, 12k, 24k
1 27k mini split 220v
1 12k mini slit 110v
1 12k mini split 220v
1 13.5k coleman rooftop mount for a trailer
Will trade for Chill King!!!!!!!


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## subcool fan (Sep 12, 2012)

why dont you just turn that 2hp mini split into a chiller? i spent 45 minutes on this 1.5hp window unit. need to build the cooler, hard wire the circuit board, and then tie it into my system. done.

the system i am using now... is cooling 3600w. then the ambient is cooling another 600 in mh, all of my ballasts, fans etc. with the help of my hvac it stays 80-82 degrees down there.

11k (1hp) diy chiller with 5 gallon rez. that pumps into a 25 gallon with a 200gph pump. where i have two worts. then a 1600gph pump takes that and pumps through six diy iceboxes. all of it cost me 800 bucks and is totally capable of keeping up with 2400 watts. with no hvac assistance.


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## Stonefree69 (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm using bare bulb vertical in my grow room that's attached to my small house (spare bedroom). I have the grow room vent out of the room into my house w/8" fan and carbon filter + another 8" fan for intake. Those are on speed controllers and always running, exchanging air about every 2 minutes. An efficient mini-split heat pump for the grow room and old inefficient ac/baseboard heat for the house. So I set the house thermostat a little higher or lower than the mini-split (20+ SEER) depending on season. So I basically use my house as the lung room.

Just need to upgrade my house unit (7 SEER believe it or not) to an efficient heat pump as well (house already ducted). This seems to keep my electric bill lower as well as my plants happy. I even try to keep CO2 @ 800-1,000 ppm but NO higher. But yes I'm all ears as to using a chiller for my res, etc... I'm looking at Igloo coolers and Armaflex pipe insulation as well as flooming for added DO (dissolved O2).


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## SOMEBEECH (Sep 14, 2012)

A 7 SEER,must be over 25yrs old..Since going to the Scroll compressors my supplier Rheem did this i believe in 93,and dont even make A/C units with the ole Hermatic compressors, SEER ratings went from 9 to 12.Of course you have to change the Evaporitive coil to achieve this SEER cant just change Condensor.

BEECH


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## subcool fan (Sep 14, 2012)

i will probably be selling this one in a week or two. but i have a friend that might want it. works flawlessly. runs fifteen minutes an hour to keep 90 gallons at 65. it ran ten minutes an hour to keep at 68. if you are interested let me know and ill find out if its available. i would sell it for what i have in it. which is about a buck fifty. its a half horse. plus ship. and 25 bucks to box and shitp. you would need to spend forty on a stainless wort, fifteen on two pumps, and snag a tmp-1 for twenty seven more.


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## Stonefree69 (Sep 14, 2012)

SOMEBEECH said:


> A 7 SEER,must be over 25yrs old..


Yup SOMEBEECH, you hit the nail on the head. My 7 SEER Rheem was put in w/house in 1980. But still going strong, inefficiently though.


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## SOMEBEECH (Sep 14, 2012)

Stonefree69 said:


> Yup SOMEBEECH, you hit the nail on the head. My 7 SEER Rheem was put in w/house in 1980. But still going strong, inefficiently though.


Wish ya lived close id fix ya up Good.Get ya bout a 16-SEER heatpump and And over size evap.Coil by 1/2 ton to get a higher SEER.


BEECH


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## Stonefree69 (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks BEECH. I do have a Mastercool evap cooler that literally puts out ice cubes from April to early July here in AZ.  I just run that and hook up a fan/ carbon filter to one of my 12" upducts.


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## SOMEBEECH (Sep 15, 2012)

*Need any advice on central PM as ive been doing this all my life and im 50 now and live in TX,lol so plenty of Doing WERK had 70plus days over 100f last yr.
and a Heatstroke.
BEECH*


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## subcool fan (Sep 15, 2012)

i am going to pm you for some quick advice. i hope you dont mind. 

@stonefree69, that is a wicked avatar.


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## SOMEBEECH (Sep 15, 2012)

subcool fan said:


> i am going to pm you for some quick advice. i hope you dont mind.
> 
> @stonefree69, that is a wicked avatar.


NP,Here for the community,My way of giving back as i cant Grow Chit.


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## Stonefree69 (Sep 15, 2012)

subcool fan said:


> @stonefree69, that is a wicked avatar.


Thanks subcool.  I just searched "optical illusions" on Google or Bing images to get that.


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## Doer (Feb 14, 2013)

budleydoright said:


> Frescas are nice but I wouldn;t buy into the 100 gallons per 1k myth. Maybe if it's real cold outside, my 1k could bring 100 gallons to over 100 degrees within a 12 hour cycle. Still works great and removes tons of heat though.
> 
> Also, while it is possible to run a 1k in a fresca a few inches from the plant tops without starting a fire, You will fry your babies. They still need to be kept at the recommended distance less 6 or 8" to offset the loss from the water and glass. Trust me on this one. I thought the same thing, I put 2 1ks in frescas with a chiller and 60 degree water in the magnum reflectors. Even 12" off the plants and they are pale ass yellow in 2 days. There is such a thing as too much light. I also noticed focused bands of hot spots with my frescas. Let me know if you experience the same thing.
> 
> I still own 3 units and a 1/2 hp homemade chiller. I certainly won't say I'll never use them again, but it just became to complex for my dyslexic brain.


Well, a lesson learned is too close will just burn up the plant. It looked fine, but as it cured it turned to a brown, almost like it was lightly pre-charred. Many mistakes in the first run and I count that as one of them. I'm keeping a journal here. There is a list. 

This time, I re-set the entire thing, insulated and put in a 1/4 hp chiller. The light is keep no closer than 30 inches. Water 63, air 75, light res maxed out at 90 F but it was 65 again the next morning.

So, I'm having no problems with 100 gal in the North shade of the house. But, 95 is a rare, hot day indeed.

I have this idea to run a heat exchanger in the rdwc, easy enough. The chiller can do both for me, I think. And in the heat zones, Texas, a 1/2 hp would do it.

I got a 1000 gph pump in the pond for circulation. And I have a high capacity 1/2" CPU radiator from Danger Den, sitting around.

I was thinking to plumb the 8" x 8" x 2" radiator core in line after the light heats it. Put that in the main pump bag in the control bucket. The pump is always drawing the heat from the radiator before it cycles back to the chiller. That way I can also take advantage of the natural heat shedding at night, 300 days of the year. YMYV.


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## Red1966 (Jun 1, 2013)

BuddGreen said:


> This is how I kept my nutes cool. View attachment 1207835View attachment 1207837View attachment 1207836 Pic1- I pump from the Control Rez to my 3 planters. Pic2- The return flow and dual Oxy Stones move the nutes around the frozen 2-liter. Pic3- 8 in the freezer and one in the rez.


 I tried using ice to cool a reservoir once and found it melted quicker than you would think. I used 1 gallon zip-lock bags. My freezer couldn't keep up with the ice required.


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## Red1966 (Jun 1, 2013)

Stonefree69 said:


> Thanks subcool.  I just searched "optical illusions" on Google or Bing images to get that.


 I placed my cursor over the image and found it not only appears to be moving, it actually is moving.


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## MOON SHINER (Jul 28, 2014)

Great info here! Really helping me decide on which way to go, running into some issues now that summer is at its peak where I am.


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## Red1966 (Jul 28, 2014)

Todesengel said:


> I'm gonna throw the BS flag right here. I have a 1/4hp JBJ Artica chiller, and they are not designed to cool below 20 degrees below ambient. Infact, most 1/10hp to 1/3hp can only cool 20-25degrees below ambient RUNNING THE COMPRESSOR 24/7! I spoke with JBJ tech support and they informed me that in any low end chiller, the compressors is a tropical compressor and not a cold water compressor. Using a low end chiller is not efficient in ANYWAY possible.
> 
> I am running an 8" Icebox, an 700cfm fan, 50gallon cooling res, and the 1/4hp chiller. With my 1000w bulb, ambient temps in my sealed 7x7 closet hit 81 degress with 85% RH. Keep in mind the chiller compressor was running 24/7 too.
> 
> Long story short, I am ditching the icebox for a portable AC unit and I will just have to deal with the c02 loss through the venting. Unless I can find a 3/4hp chiller for cheap somewhere, but I don't think its gonna happen.


You can seal a window unit and duct the air to your tent much cheaper. Modern window units exchange very little air with the outdoors, You can seal some of them completely, but you'll need to add a drain for condensate.A puny 5,000 BTU window unit is more than adequate to cool a 4 x 8 tent. You'll also need to add two inline fans, but you may need to do that with a portable, too, because the hoses are 5' or less. Some portables are easy to seal, also, but some are not seal-able at all. Bear in mind modifying any of them will void the warranty, so test them before you make any alterations.


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## angryp (Aug 16, 2014)

Really need some help on water cooling..... On my 3rd grow now and have decided to switch from a/c to water cool. I run aeroflo 60 only using 3 tubes and 15 sites, indoors with orca film on walls and floor, 8" raptor hood, 1000 watt phantom ballast, cyclone chiller for nutes, 4' can with 750 cfm fan, and with switching to a to water cooling ditching a/c and all vents. Live in socal desert so hot as hell, here. Ok so I bought a 11x10 titanium heat exchanger with copper fins used in the food industries, 1/4hp hydrofarm chiller, 55 gallon drum (res), aapw1000 active aqua pump (submersed), general hydroponics tnc 1/4hp pump, insulated 1/2" line and grozone TV2 controller. Run the pump aapw1000 in the 55 drum and out to chiller and back, the gh tnc pump is drilled into bottom of drum outside feeding the heat exchanger hooked to the raptor hood at one end and the other end has the 750 cfm fan hooked to the TV2 controller. Can't seem to keep the room in themrange im looking for 76 night and 79 - 81 daytime. I've tried this in every configuration I can think of;
1) aapw1000 to chiller to heat exchanger and back
2) aapw1000 to heat exchanger to chiller and then res
3) put two pumps as stated above
4) Adjusted fan speeds up and down
5) adjusted aapw1000's intake from max. to min. 
6) Ran 3/4" pvc from the tnc pump up and over to heat exchange and then back to the 1/2" insulated line.
7) pulled instead of pushed air through the hood
 Went from 25 gallons in drum upto 50 gallons (per hydro innovations technical support)
9) 1st attempt at thismwas the reason I spent $675 on the titanium copper coiled heat exchanger was so I could hook upto hood run straight down to my nute res (standard 40 gallon aeroflo 60 res) and back down to it using a secong tnc pump in the drain port ( for you guys that know gh aeroflo 60). Problem there was the 1/4hp cyclone chiller cannot keep up, with heat exchange and would raise res temps to 74-76 didmt want to risk root rot. Soooo I scraped that and bought the extra chiller and pump just for the heat exchanger. 

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated, seems like this is definitely the way to go and there seems to be some guys on here thst really know there stuff. Respect


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## Ladyganj024 (May 29, 2017)

SOMEBEECH said:


> *Need any advice on central PM as ive been doing this all my life and im 50 now and live in TX,lol so plenty of Doing WERK had 70plus days over 100f last yr.
> and a Heatstroke.
> BEECH*


Hey if you have the time..i am new on water cooling and you stated that you were available for info..


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## visajoe1 (May 30, 2017)

Ladyganj024 said:


> Hey if you have the time..i am new on water cooling and you stated that you were available for info..


that post is about 5 years old fyi. but to answer your question, forget a chiller. use bennies in your rez, and you're golden like grahams


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## Ladyganj024 (May 30, 2017)

visajoe1 said:


> that post is about 5 years old fyi. but to answer your question, forget a chiller. use bennies in your rez, and you're golden like grahams


Bennies?? Do you mean beneficial organisms sorry? And does that really help with temperatures almost at 100


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## visajoe1 (May 31, 2017)

Ladyganj024 said:


> Bennies?? Do you mean beneficial organisms sorry? And does that really help with temperatures almost at 100


Yikes! thats hot. ya, you'll need a chiller if you're water is getting that hot. yes, i mean beneficial bacteria when i say bennies. are you running dwc/rdwc?


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## xmatox (May 31, 2017)

Ladyganj024 said:


> Bennies?? Do you mean beneficial organisms sorry? And does that really help with temperatures almost at 100


You pulling water from the jacuzzi? lol


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## Ladyganj024 (May 31, 2017)

Oh you are funny. The first grow room I had I had my central air pumping in my wall unit at 5000 BTU and a portable at 14000 BTU however my ventilation knowledge was limited. it was a crash course. I I think I got it down to where if I have enough air flow coming through. I have a picture of I think it would be a hot air extractor and thought about building a box around that and venting it into a split to run down two lines. 

I am switching to LEDs and obviously I'm trying to save money. I thought about the do-it-yourself on the bottom of the air extractor and seeing how that works but my other option is to split with a 6-inch or 8 inch in beginning and 8 inch pulling it out of the room into the ceiling. I have a design that actually increase the square footage of my girl and decrease the lights so I'll just have two lines. And this has to worker is do or die on this one and I don't have room for error
I put my foot down no more micromanaging I'm doing it my own way seem to have a pretty good outcome when everybody leaves my ladies alone


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## xmatox (May 31, 2017)

Ladyganj024 said:


> Oh you are funny. The first grow room I had I had my central air pumping in my wall unit at 5000 BTU and a portable at 14000 BTU however my ventilation knowledge was limited. it was a crash course. I I think I got it down to where if I have enough air flow coming through. I have a picture of I think it would be a hot air extractor and thought about building a box around that and venting it into a split to run down two lines.
> 
> I am switching to LEDs and obviously I'm trying to save money. I thought about the do-it-yourself on the bottom of the air extractor and seeing how that works but my other option is to split with a 6-inch or 8 inch in beginning and 8 inch pulling it out of the room into the ceiling. I have a design that actually increase the square footage of my girl and decrease the lights so I'll just have two lines. And this has to worker is do or die on this one and I don't have room for error
> I put my foot down no more micromanaging I'm doing it my own way seem to have a pretty good outcome when everybody leaves my ladies alone


Lol The impression given was that your reservoir temps were 100, not temps in your room. If you want to do something right, do it yourself. Good luck


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## cjcooper (Jul 11, 2017)

can someone please explain this water chilling business, I always thought the idea was to heat your water to like 18C so you don't shock your plants ?


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