# Seedling Ppm Confusion



## PERSISTILLSUCCESS (Jun 7, 2008)

I have a few books on growin and none give a black and white answer to ppm for seedling i read in one bible that just water is fine for 3-4 weeks of initial seedling growth, then hydro book tells me 300ppm is ideal for seedlings . . . . .also my tap water is 170 ppm im thinkin the crap in the tap water is messin me up im now diluting it with distilled water 50/50 my ph is no problem but im just not to sure on how much nuts to give for seedling thanks for help


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## grobofotwanky (Jun 7, 2008)

I would start with 50-100 and work your way up. The plant will let you know what it wants.


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## PERSISTILLSUCCESS (Jun 7, 2008)

theyre all like 2 1/2 weeks old so next mix is 50/50 distilled and tap water which brings me to 80-90 ppm from just tap water then even amounts of G.H. 3 part nutrient im hopin that gives me some good results


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## potroast (Jun 8, 2008)

For soil grows, you don't need to feed for a month, the roots have the soil to find food in. For hydro grows, I feed a weak nute solution starting before they have teeth.

HTH


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## PERSISTILLSUCCESS (Jun 8, 2008)

im thinkin the tap water ppm is what screwed me. but hopefully this new3 mix will help em out its the 50/50 tap-distilled water equal 3part g.h. nuts till 300ppm theyre 3 weeks old 2 asre 6 weeks old all of em in the same rez.


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## osirica (Jun 8, 2008)

I use 500ppm on seedlings of PBP grow and never had a problem...


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## PERSISTILLSUCCESS (Jun 8, 2008)

daaaaaamn 500 p-p-p-p-ppm?!?!?!?! i thot i burned my little babies but now im thinkin nut deficiency and w/e my tap water had in it was f'in me up too. damn. i think its time for test run #3 . . . ..thanks for info


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## LittleGreenMan1 (Jan 29, 2010)

PERSISTILLSUCCESS said:


> daaaaaamn 500 p-p-p-p-ppm?!?!?!?! i thot i burned my little babies but now im thinkin nut deficiency and w/e my tap water had in it was f'in me up too. damn. i think its time for test run #3 . . . ..thanks for info


you shold really think about your Ph not the PPM's. In my opinion add a very weak (50ppm) solution of some grow nutes and keep ph around 5.8. you SHOULD be good with that.


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## killa killa kk (Apr 14, 2011)

LittleGreenMan1 said:


> you shold really think about your Ph not the PPM's. In my opinion add a very weak (50ppm) solution of some grow nutes and keep ph around 5.8. you SHOULD be good with that.


ts 

I agree with littlegreenman I use a higher strength of nutes probably about 200 ppm but your main concern should be the ph right now, I find the ph seems to change more drastically with seedlings because you dont have all the buffers in the nutrients to keep the ph from swinging. Thats why I use about 200 it seems to stay pretty stable


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## killa killa kk (Apr 14, 2011)

I found this and copied it from another thread. Mogie was the one to write this I take no credit what so ever I just found that it is a very good explanation 

If you have any desire to mix your own fertilizers, it is important that you have at least basic understanding of these terms 

Electricity is conducted due to the presence of ions (electrically charged) in a solution. The ions get there by introduction of salts via our ferts! 

EC (electric conductivity) is a representation of how much potential a solution has to conduct electricity...SO, by testing the ability of a solution to conduct electricity, we can indirectly determine the amount of salts present....thereby knowing if we have the right concentration of ferts. 

E.C. is a measure of salinity by measuring its conductivity. You want an E.C. under 2.0.....anything around 4.0 signifies an extreme excess of salt which calls for immediate leeching. There are devices for measuring...honestly, I haven't bought one because I am pretty comfortable with this....but if you experiment may be worth a look! 

Despite my natural aversion for ppm measurement, it would be a good idea when mixing ferts as a beginner. Check your nursery or Home Depot. I've F-ed up a plant or two in my day, always because I THOUGHT I was more accurate with eye measurement than I really was! 
CF (Conductivity Factor) basically represents the same information but expressed differently. 1 ms/cm is equal to a CF of 10. I don't use this factor and haven't seen many people use it...but just in case, you now have a conversion! 

TDS is a measurement, by weight, of the Total Dissolved Solids in a solution and is measured in PPMs (Parts Per Million). Basically, when you hear someone say they introduce nutrients at a rate of 500 PPMs, it means that they have 500 milligrams of solid dissolved in a Liter of water. 

You can figure the PPM of your ferts one of two ways.....you can precisely measure the ferts and water you mix together...or you can make a solution and measure the PPM of IT. The shortcut lies in hand-held meters which measure the EC of a solution and then apply mathematical conversion to the EC figure to arrive at PPMs. Keep in mind, even this is an approximate measurement...but plenty accurate for growers! 

Some meters actually display the EC AND the PPM readings. Some only express the EC value and this can be tricky because European and American made meters measure at different rates. 
An American device that displays an E.C. of 1.0 has 500PPMs. 
A European device that displays an E.C. of 1.0 has 640PPMs. 
(I believe Australian manufacturers have a different conversion factor also...but not sure.) 

So if your American device only displays E.C., use that old algebra and set the two given equations equal to each other. For example, let's say your E.C. reading is 1.2. 

Using the known ratio given just above, we'll cross multiply to solve for x to get the unknown ppms. 
1.0/500ppm=1.2/x 
x=600 
Your solution has 600PPMs. (remember, this would be with the American device...a European device would produce a different result!) 

If you want to figure out the PPMs yourself, its pretty easy. Each 1 gram of fertilizer per liter of water gives 10PPMs of each given nutrient per percentage point. Sounds clumsy, wish I could state that better....here's an example. 

Use 1 gram of SuperPhosphate 0-20-0 in a liter of DISTILLED water. The solution would have 0ppm of N, 200ppm of P, and 0ppm of K. Also keep in mind that tap water already has dissolved solids...most likely anywhere between 200-400 PPMs. Use distilled water when possible...0 PPMs!! 

A guideline for NPK strengths 
Now, I have seen different parameters for acceptable PPMs. Here is a decent guideline for the N-P-K standards...play around, but make only gradual changes up! Approximate tolerance range of PPMs per nutrient .... most micronutes are tolerated by plants within the same ranges...but the plant just doesn't need nearly that much! 

N 200-400 
P 200-600 
K 200-600 

Approximate tolerance range of TOTAL PPMs in soil/medium 
(Obviously the plant can tolerate more as it gets larger and has more root area to uptake nutes and leaf area to transpire water.) 

Seedling 500-600 
Vegetative 800-1000 
Flowering 1000-1500 
Flushing 500 

PPMs for each growth phase 
You may desire more N during veg stages for example. The key is NOT to obsess over the exact numbers. Too many experienced growers give advice in exact parameters to appear 'scientific' or something...but there are too many other factors involved in the actual UPTAKE of these nutrients by roots to claim specificity. These are just general parameters that you can tweak under your own conditions. And again, the plant can tolerate more as it gets larger and has more root area to uptake nutes and leaf area to transpire water...start light, gradually increase with each feeding as your lant can handle it. 

Keep in mind, my estimates are given for soil mediums which can tolerate higher levels because the soil components will bond with many elemental ions....a hydro system needs to be more precise....I'm not very familiar with those systems. You've read the dislaimer! Also remember that these parameters are based on the assumption of using DISTILLED water. Tap water will add another 200-400 PPMs, so you would have to adjust accordingly...especially with Cl, Ca, Na, and in rare case, S. 

SEEDLING (2-3 weeks...look for 4-5 sets of alternating nodes before moving to veg) 

N 150 
P 100 
K 150 
Ca 75 
Mg 75 
S 25-50 
Fe 15 
Cl 15 
Mn 7 
Cu 9 
Zn 3 
Total: 600ppm 

VEGETATIVE/PRE-FLOWER (2-4 weeks) 

N 300 
P 100 
K 200 
Ca 100 
Mg 100 
S 50-75 
Fe 25 
Cl 25 
Mn 10 
Cu 15 
Zn 5 
Total: @1000pm 

FLOWER (strain dependent-usually 6-8 weeks) 

N 300-400 
P 400 
K 200 
Ca 100-150 
Mg 100-150 
S 100-150 
Fe 25+ 
Cl 25+ 
Mn 10 
Cu 15 
Zn 5 
Total: @1300-1500ppm 

FLUSH/HARVEST (2 weeks) 
N 0 
P 75 
K 75 
Ca 50 
Mg 50 
S 50 
Fe 25 
Cl 25 
Mn 10 
Cu 15 
Zn 5 
Total: @400ppm 

I cannot stress enough that these are estimates...conservative ones due to the fact that chemical ferts allow less room for error. In addition, different strains and conditions will result in different ratios....experiment often and use caution always


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## BeaverHuntr (Apr 14, 2011)

I go 1/4 strength nutes when the 4th leave shows. I have waited longer but if you do they will start to suck the nitrogen from the first set of baby leaves.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Apr 14, 2011)

You people are answering questions from 3 years ago.


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## wiseguy316 (Apr 14, 2011)

i would go with 1/4 strength nutes & for me that is 400 ppm.


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## BeaverHuntr (Apr 14, 2011)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> You people are answering questions from 3 years ago.


Now I feel like a horses pa-toot!


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## OldSoul777 (Feb 12, 2015)

BeaverHuntr said:


> Now I feel like a horses pa-toot!


I wouldnt have minded if you kept going. I was adding nutes for week three of a clone not a seedling. I only went a day or so with the nutes at 650 or so. I brought it down to 575. I am 3 1/2 weeks in from seed. my 6th node is just starting and some inter nodes are appearing. Hopefully you will still answer this very old post.


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## doubleU_420 (Mar 4, 2015)

PERSISTILLSUCCESS said:


> i read in one bible that just water is fine for 3-4 weeks of initial seedling growth, then hydro book tells me 300ppm is ideal for seedlings . . . .


Just water IS fine for initial seedling growth - a seedling will supply it's own food for the first few weeks through its cotyledons (the very first set of 'leaves' you see when your seed finally sprouts)

300ppm is ok for germinating seeds though personally i'd shoot for lower than that - around 100ppm is perfect IMO. In any case don't try to germ in water over 400ppm you'll just have problems.

The ppm your hydro book is referring to is the ppm of water - tap water, judging by the amount they give, and not the ppm of a nutrient solution. Don't germ your seeds in nute solution - you CAN, but its tricky to get the amounts right and germing seeds is hard enough as it is.

As for when you can start giving your seedling nutes, I'd start after around 2 weeks, though it all depends on the plant really - I'm impatient with my plants a lot of the time and tend to overwater / overfeed a lot, so from experience I can tell you that it's better to start feeding a week later than a week early. Wait until she puts out 3 fingers, then start on 1/4 strength.

Hope this helps,


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## OldSoul777 (Mar 4, 2015)

doubleU_420 said:


> Just water IS fine for initial seedling growth - a seedling will supply it's own food for the first few weeks through its cotyledons (the very first set of 'leaves' you see when your seed finally sprouts)
> 
> 300ppm is ok for germinating seeds though personally i'd shoot for lower than that - around 100ppm is perfect IMO. In any case don't try to germ in water over 400ppm you'll just have problems.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I started another set of seeds and I always have great success I just didn't know when to start administering. When does a seedling become a plant?


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## doubleU_420 (Mar 4, 2015)

It's hard to put a definition on these things because every plant you grow is unique and so is every grower's skill level. Some people start to flower a few days after sprouting without problems and others veg for 6 weeks or longer. I've been told the seedling is in veg stage once it develops it's first set of 'true leaves' - the serrated ones, though I personally hold off calling them plants until I see the iconic 5-fingers we all love  .


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## OldSoul777 (Mar 4, 2015)

doubleU_420 said:


> It's hard to put a definition on these things because every plant you grow is unique and so is every grower's skill level. Some people start to flower a few days after sprouting without problems and others veg for 6 weeks or longer. I've been told the seedling is in veg stage once it develops it's first set of 'true leaves' - the serrated ones, though I personally hold off calling them plants until I see the iconic 5-fingers we all love  .


They should have a thumbs up or a thank you button.


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## firsttimeARE (Mar 4, 2015)

Feed right away. Plant is in veg once 5 or 7 pointers come out. I think its 7.


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## OldSoul777 (Mar 4, 2015)

firsttimeARE said:


> Feed right away. Plant is in veg once 5 or 7 pointers come out. I think its 7.


I have them @ 170ppm and 2.5 ml of liquid karma just sprouting the first set of tri leaves and all looks well. the roots are about 10 inches long  Thank you!


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## weednurd420 (Apr 3, 2015)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> You people are answering questions from 3 years ago.


and im reading them


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## churchhaze (Apr 3, 2015)

Just feed your freaking plants... 1.4EC to everything in dwc, even babies. I'm still waiting to see my babies get burned with 1.4EC... it doesn't even make sense that they would. I've been doing it that way for _years_.

The quicker you start feeding them proper diet, the quicker they will take off.

Feeding plain water in hydro for the first few weeks is the best way to end up with a "should my plants be further along?" or "what's wrong with my plants?" thread in the near future... It's the blind leading the blind. To make things worse, 90% of these threads with undernourished, underdeveloped plants end up with "Flush" being the consensus advice, which is the nail in the coffin... then root rot sets in and they start making threads about how to stop their plant from rotting away...


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## OldSoul777 (Apr 3, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> Just feed your freaking plants... 1.4EC to everything in dwc, even babies. I'm still waiting to see my babies get burned with 1.4EC... it doesn't even make sense that they would. I've been doing it that way for _years_.
> 
> The quicker you start feeding them proper diet, the quicker they will take off.
> 
> Feeding plain water in hydro for the first few weeks is the best way to end up with a "should my plants be further along?" or "what's wrong with my plants?" thread in the near future... It's the blind leading the blind. To make things worse, 90% of these threads with undernourished, underdeveloped plants end up with "Flush" being the consensus advice, which is the nail in the coffin... then root rot sets in and they start making threads about how to stop their plant from rotting away...


well put!


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