# Has Religious or non-Religious Wars Killed more People?



## VILEPLUME (Jan 26, 2012)

I keep hearing that Religious wars have killed more people in history than non-Religious wars, but I can't find an accurate total anywhere.

I know the Crusades starting in 1095 were wars blessed by the Pope to either "covert or be slayed", and the total is not know, but estimated at around 2 Million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

But then you look at a non-religious war like WW2 and how over 60 Million people died. It's true that Hitler hated the Jews, but his main goal in WW2 was his thinking that the Aryan race was supreme over all races. That is why along with the 7 Million Jews that died, over 10 Million Chinese died, over 20 Million Soviets died, etc.

Or even the latest Iraq war, the main goal there was to find "weapons of mass destruction" and end terrorism, but it wasnt to convert Muslims or they face death(imagine the uprising there lol).


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## mindphuk (Jan 26, 2012)

Even if religious wars have caused fewer deaths than other types, religion is still responsible for a whole pile o&#8217; death. A lesser evil is still evil. Following on from that, just because some things have killed more people than religion (and some things certainly have) doesn't mean we shouldn't work to stop and prevent religious violence as well. Doctors are still working to eradicate malaria even though cancer is more widespread and still needs curing.

You also seem to be stuck on the idea that a war is necessary to count as religious violence. The Crusades were certainly warfare but the many inquisitions were civil in nature, so were the witch hunts that decimated much of the population of Europe. Ethnic cleansing continues to this day with various degrees of religious justification. 

To attempt comparisons between religious and non-religious rationales for killing sounds like an attempt to minimize the vast amount of human suffering perpetuated by religion over the years. The absolute amount of violence attributed to religion may or may not equal that contributed by other reasons but that doesn't excuse religion from it's role in the multitudes of war and death throughout the ages. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that eliminating one of the major reasons for conflict between people would actually be a good thing in the long run, whether the reason is nationalism, racism, or religion.


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## VILEPLUME (Jan 26, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Even if religious wars have caused fewer deaths than other types, religion is still responsible for a whole pile o&#8217; death. A lesser evil is still evil.


Oh I know, evil exists everywhere, that is not what I am saying.

I was just looking for the facts on how many people died in Religious wars vs Non-Religious wars, thats all.


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## mindphuk (Jan 26, 2012)

Just looking for facts, no subtext at all....right.


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## dr2brains (Jan 26, 2012)

Religious. Religious Wars have been going on since the beginning of mankind.


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## cannabineer (Jan 26, 2012)

The trouble is that there are so many categories in between, shadings, gradations. Japan's part in WWII - religious, or not? cn


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## olylifter420 (Jan 26, 2012)

since the beginning of mankind?







dr2brains said:


> Religious. Religious Wars have been going on since the beginning of mankind.


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## olylifter420 (Jan 26, 2012)

the "grey" area so to speak





cannabineer said:


> The trouble is that there are so many categories in between, shadings, gradations. Japan's part in WWII - religious, or not? cn


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## Catchin22 (Jan 27, 2012)

Hitlers Catholic background was the driving force behind what he did, these were practically his words.


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## VILEPLUME (Jan 27, 2012)

Catchin22 said:


> Hitlers Catholic background was the driving force behind what he did, these were practically his words.


He must of been a great scholar, though he missed the "love thy neighbor" part.


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## NoahEbin (Jan 27, 2012)

VILEPLUME said:


> I keep hearing that Religious wars have killed more people in history than non-Religious wars, but I can't find an accurate total anywhere.
> 
> I know the Crusades starting in 1095 were wars blessed by the Pope to either "covert or be slayed", and the total is not know, but estimated at around 2 Million.
> 
> ...



Hitler just wanted to be famous like Alexander and Napoleon. Even though the Crusades and all other Papal wars were started in the name of "Religion", that was just what they used to get the people to go to war for some "Cause". It was all about conquering lands and taking resources/gold to make the powers that be richer. You have to have a cause for your populace to go to war. It was also used in all the European wars to keep rebellion at home in check. If the people were off fighting some "Terrible" enemy abroad, they were less likely to want to overthrow the current monarch, think Civil Unrest Control (Same thing that has been going on in US for last 10 years).

The goal of the Iraqi invasion was not to 'Find Weapons of Mass Destruction' or 'End Terrorism'. By definition, there will never be an _*END*_ to Terrorism. The war was for oil and to make defence contractors rich, b/c it is proven The Man in charge knew there were no weapons there. Wars always make the corporations that sell war-related goods to the government rich, just follow the paper trail. The "War on Terror" is the beginning of the end for Americans' Freedoms, although the gov. has been slowly working on that for the last 50 years with other wars and allowing corporations to take over our government to enslave the sheeple masses.

Yes, it sounds like all conspiracy theory, I know. JMHO


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## VILEPLUME (Jan 27, 2012)

NoahEbin said:


> The goal of the Iraqi invasion was not to 'Find Weapons of Mass Destruction' or 'End Terrorism'. By definition, there will never be an _*END*_ to Terrorism. The war was for oil and to make defence contractors rich, b/c it is proven The Man in charge knew there were no weapons there. Wars always make the corporations that sell war-related goods to the government rich, just follow the paper trail. The "War on Terror" is the beginning of the end for Americans' Freedoms, although the gov. has been slowly working on that for the last 50 years with other wars and allowing corporations to take over our government to enslave the sheeple masses.
> 
> Yes, it sounds like all conspiracy theory, I know. JMHO


I agree with you, I think everyone knows the "real" motive was for oil.

It was actually Religion that stopped the Poppy farmers in Afghanistan from producing Opium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan

But since the drug war makes many many people rich, we had to go invade Afghanistan, help the farmers start up Poppy production again and make sure we had Marines guarding it. I still think it is funny that our tax dollars are paying for U.S Marines to guard Poppy fields!

Yes, I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory as well.


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## smok3y1 (Jan 28, 2012)

I think greed has killed the most people. Just because someone says its a religious/non-religious war does'nt mean they are being honest. How many times have country leaders lied to their citizens to get them to support war. They will say anything..


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## Timmahh (Jan 28, 2012)

Religion Kills period.


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## VILEPLUME (Jan 28, 2012)

smok3y1 said:


> I think greed has killed the most people. Just because someone says its a religious/non-religious war does'nt mean they are being honest. How many times have country leaders lied to their citizens to get them to support war. They will say anything..


Exactly what I was thinking, same with power.

What do men with money and power want? More money and power.


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## smok3y1 (Jan 29, 2012)

VILEPLUME said:


> Exactly what I was thinking, same with power.
> 
> What do men with money and power want? More money and power.


Exactly! And these sort of people will do anything to get it especially something as little as lying.


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## Farfenugen (Jan 29, 2012)

The fact is: if a Muslim fundamentalist murdered your family, you would in all probability, murder, kill, execute, torture, maim or even tickle to death any Muslim that was associated with that Muslim fundamentalist in order to bring that Muslim fundamentalist to justice so that he would be tried, convicted and executed. The other fact is: if a nation of Muslim fundamentalists blew up a building in your country, as president, you would in all probability, after using intelligent resources, after sanctions didn't work (based on your nation's demand for justice) declare war on that Muslim fundamentalist nation. Most wars are fought in the name of one thing or another, be they an ideology, a god or gods, for resources, for revenge, for family or the honour of a nobleman's family, for land or basically anything, even stealing riches. But I doubt a war would be raged on the basis of one sports team's foul against another. Or I could be wrong, just look at European football.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jan 30, 2012)

Religious wars have taken more lives than any other so far,(hate saying so far in this context).But ask yourself what is religion?Bias and prejudgemental are 2 words i would use to describe it,so when u have people under the influence of religion,differences of mind,ideology,and aptitude become obtuse in its course,causing a lack of natural sense and true judgement of what is really going on,people clamor under the feverish signs of force from someone perpetuating holy war and the thousands upon thousands misguided into war are never the wiser.This having occured innumerous times throughout history,will add up to a sum greater than that of both world wars combined,not that i know fully what those numbers are,but the amount of time the religious has spent killing nonbelievers in the past gives leeway to greater scores of people having been slaughtered by a war of ideals.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 30, 2012)

Timmahh said:


> Religion Kills period.



Sounds like a headline... Well, that'll take care of the over-population issue.


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## futureprospects (Jan 30, 2012)

if they only knew to smoke weed they may have not had so many wars lol


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 30, 2012)

futureprospects said:


> if they only knew to smoke weed they may have not had so many wars lol



...the first war would still be underway - ok ok sorry, it would start in about an hour, for sure this time


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## VILEPLUME (Jan 30, 2012)

futureprospects said:


> if they only knew to smoke weed they may have not had so many wars lol


No kidding!

Some consider Holland to be a more "Christian" nation for legalizing weed and mushrooms. If shit really came from God, then it shouldnt be held back from its people.

If America was a true "Christian nation", they would legalize. Oh well, guess well just keep the wolves in sheep's clothing...err, i mean politicians, spreading war and making the rich richer


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## ginjawarrior (Jan 30, 2012)

VILEPLUME said:


> No kidding!
> 
> Some consider Holland to be a more "Christian" nation for legalizing weed and mushrooms. If shit really came from God, then it shouldnt be held back from its people.
> 
> If America was a true "Christian nation", they would legalize. Oh well, guess well just keep the wolves in sheep's clothing...err, i mean politicians, spreading war and making the rich richer


i think you'l find hollands christianity has very little to do with the legalizing weed in fact if the us was less christian you'd probably have legalized already

 
Religion in the Netherlands


​ Catholicism (27,0%)
​ Protestantism (16,6%)
​ Islam (4%)
​ Hinduism (1,3%)
​ Buddhism (1,0%)
​ Non-religious (48,4%)


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## Brick Top (Jan 30, 2012)

Catchin22 said:


> Hitlers Catholic background was the driving force behind what he did, these were practically his words.


I have read "The Life And Death Of Adolph Hitler" and "The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich" and "Mein Kamph" more than just several times each and somehow I missed that. Well, that or it wasn't bothered to be mentioned in any of the three books. 

I'm curious. Where did you read or hear what you said?


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## ginjawarrior (Jan 30, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> I have read "The Life And Death Of Adolph Hitler" and "The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich" and "Mein Kamph" more than just several times each and somehow I missed that. Well, that or it wasn't bothered to be mentioned in any of the three books.
> 
> I'm curious. Where did you read or hear what you said?


seems someones gone to the effort of collecting some of them into one place.. 

http://nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

they sure dont look to be non religous quotes lots of talk of faith heaven and so on


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## VILEPLUME (Jan 30, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> i think you'l find hollands christianity has very little to do with the legalizing weed in fact if the us was less christian you'd probably have legalized already
> 
> 
> Religion in the Netherlands
> ...


Thanks for the chart. But I was talking about how Holland has a more realistic Christian response, just not total population. The drug war isn't working in the U.S, but the war continues so that some people stay rich.

What Jesus says and what people actually do are two different things. Anyone can say they are a Christian, especially if they want you to watch Fox News 

[youtube]sTPsFIsxM3w[/youtube]


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## ginjawarrior (Jan 30, 2012)

VILEPLUME said:


> Thanks for the chart. But I was talking about how Holland has a more realistic Christian response, just not total population. The drug war isn't working in the U.S, but the war continues so that some people stay rich.
> 
> What Jesus says and what people actually do are two different things. Anyone can say they are a Christian, especially if they want you to watch Fox News
> 
> [youtube]sTPsFIsxM3w[/youtube]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman 

its wrong to put a christian label on holland what you are seeing is secularism on a scale that would have been impossible with a majority christian make up


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## VILEPLUME (Jan 30, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
> 
> its wrong to put a christian label on holland what you are seeing is secularism on a scale that would have been impossible with a majority christian make up


I see your point, I'm not trying to say that Holland is a majority Christian nation. What I am trying to say is I wish the Christians in America had the same view point


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## ginjawarrior (Jan 30, 2012)

are you starting to see why us athiests consider christianity to be bad? where the "moral majority" has little to do with actual morality and much more to do with stagnant dogma?


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 30, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> seems someones gone to the effort of collecting some of them into one place..
> 
> http://nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm
> 
> they sure dont look to be non religous quotes lots of talk of faith heaven and so on



...it is no secret what happens when people take things literally. One quote from your link was of particular interest to me. Being 'right' in defending against the 'jews' describes, in the gnostic sense, an ego unwilling to surrender. Like this he becomes the epitome. A false 'god'. I think he took variations on 'saturn' in the wrong way - he lusted for bloodshed toward the end.

Speaking of false gods - I wonder how many people, believers and non-believers, were mesmerized by television when it first aired. I wonder how many still are.


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## cannabineer (Jan 30, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...it is no secret what happens when people take things literally. One quote from your link was of particular interest to me. Being 'right' in defending against the 'jews' describes, in the gnostic sense, an ego unwilling to surrender. Like this he becomes the epitome. A false 'god'. I think he took variations on 'saturn' in the wrong way - he lusted for bloodshed toward the end.
> 
> Speaking of false gods - I wonder how many people, believers and non-believers, were mesmerized by television when it first aired. I wonder how many still are.



I'll answer during the commercial ... now shush!  cn


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## VILEPLUME (Jan 30, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I'll answer during the commercial ... now shush!  cn


Lawls, the famous canna one liners


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## dtp5150 (Feb 2, 2012)

its all about religion


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## ginjawarrior (Feb 2, 2012)

dtp5150 said:


> its all about religion


your right IMO if we could rid ourselves of it and as the same question in say a hundred years then the difference would be profound


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## Pat the stoner (Feb 2, 2012)

Religeon is oftentimes misused to inflict something negative on others . But still is a persons choice - just for themselves to make , like using cannabis . They are personal choices . Problems arise when other people try to impose their own beliefs upon people of a different state of mind . I deal with it all the time , it's caused wars at my house .


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