# THELOADEDDRAGON'S Perpetually growing perpetual grow



## theloadeddragon (Aug 14, 2009)

ok... so I am getting this started. 4 strains, at the moment, starting from seed.

5 Twilight (pure Indica)
5 Mauii Skunk (pure Sativa)
5 Chemo Cindy (hybrid)
5 Widow Cindy (Hybrid)

so 20 seeds total planted at around 2 am this morning . They are in 1 gallon pots that were 3/4 full of Fox Farms Ocean Forest 1/4 full (top portion) of Fox Farms Light Warrior (seed starter). I expect lots of Sprouts by the end of the weekend. They are labelled by strain as A-E to keep track for sexing/phenos/breeding/cloning. I am hoping for two mothers of each strain, and hopefully each mother for each strain demonstrates its own unique distinct qualities and phenotypes. I am anticipating a high ratio of 3 males per five seeds (just to be safe), and any extra females will be used for breeding or going strait into flower.

this is a perpetually growing perpetual grow ..... so there is only lots more to come. If you have followed any of my previous journals you should recognize my fluorescent panel (4' 40W tubes, and 23W) CFLs) that measures 4 ft by 3 ft, and stands 5 1/2 ft above ground. This is just enough to sustain these seedlings, so I am going to have to increase the veg area very soon to accomodate the Purple Kush cuttings I am going to be putting in there once they root, and I also have 2 or 3 Sensi Star plants to stick in as soon as there is enough light and space.

20 from seed

20 Purple Kush clones

2-3 Sensi Star plants

15 Sensi Star clones

35-38 clones (Purple Kush and Sensi Star) are going under a 1000W HPS when they are 8-12" tall to flower. Half way through the flower cycle I am going to add another light and put more clones in (probably a combination of all of the strains I have clones ready for), and then its just constant harvesting constant growing, .

I won't start breeding until this upcoming spring. First Harvest should be around the end of December. I will be going for a sizable weekly update with little bits added in between. Feel free to comment and ask questions.

Just Keep it Positive please. Thanks. 

Pics.
(L-R) 
Row 1- Twilight
Row 2- Mauii Skunk
Row 3- Widow Cindy
Row 4- Chemo Cindy


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## slabhead (Aug 14, 2009)

cool, I'll watch.


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## bigjesse1922 (Aug 14, 2009)

Subscribed


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Aug 14, 2009)

Solid. Subscribed also


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 14, 2009)

Thanks guys. Its gunna take a few days to get going...... but it should get pretty interesting after that.....


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## jonboy30 (Aug 14, 2009)

why am I always on the late bus? LoL...subscribe TLD...very nice...wish you and I were neighbors! We'd be pretty stoned all the time!


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## notoriousb (Aug 14, 2009)

scribed


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## jonboy30 (Aug 14, 2009)

Hey...it's that guy....that smokes alot of weed...and makes money off of everything that has to do with weed...and makes billions selling seeds...and gets arrested in the United States...whats his name? Mark Emry?


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 14, 2009)

lol..... wouldn't mind smoking with him out in the trees somewheres lol...... sure does talk a lot...... gotta get him hiking lol.....


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## raiderman (Aug 14, 2009)

looks like a great start, ns strain selection.Bodhi has a hybrid SR71 purple kush cross at breedbay , but the bid was around 150. i chickened out. his purple moonshine supposed to be out any day. raider.


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## northeastern lights (Aug 14, 2009)

subscribed


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 14, 2009)

raiderman said:


> looks like a great start, ns strain selection.Bodhi has a hybrid SR71 purple kush cross at breedbay , but the bid was around 150. i chickened out. his purple moonshine supposed to be out any day. raider.


Thats why Im so stoked I already have it and don't have to go anywhere to buy the genetics,  thanks for stopping by bro.


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## notoriousb (Aug 14, 2009)

jonboy30 said:


> Hey...it's that guy....that smokes alot of weed...and makes money off of everything that has to do with weed...and makes billions selling seeds...and gets arrested in the United States...whats his name? Mark Emry?


haha yep, that's him. I don't know about billions, but I'm sure that's what the US govt was trying to say to indict him. check that bong tho!


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 14, 2009)

I don't like them THAT big.....


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## curious old fart (Aug 14, 2009)

subscribed


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## NewGrowth (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm in as always man


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## robert 14617 (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm in.............................


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## DaGambler (Aug 15, 2009)

so what kinda flower setup you looking at, man?
.


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## Bublonichronic (Aug 15, 2009)

good shit bro, subscribed


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## cbtwohundread (Aug 15, 2009)

im submeged and subscibed.,.,lovely genetics.,.,


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 15, 2009)

DaGambler said:


> so what kinda flower setup you looking at, man?
> .


Haven't quite gotten all the details down on how the flowering set up will be so far. I still need to increase the veg area, which will probably mean doing a completely new setup in a larger more convenient area. Im still moving so everythings going on a slightly slower pace than I normally would. The good news is the next veg setup will be more permanent, larger, and more practical. As it is I the veg area gets a little too hot and dry. Almost a month veg for the clones Im going to take today and over the next week of both Purple Kush and Sensi Star (so flowering won't start till mid september). The seeds I just planted won't have clones come off of them until October. and those clones will go in as an add on to the already flowering PK and SS, meaning I am going to get another HPS to add on, as Im already going to be using the Hortilux 1000W Super HPS (100,000-118,00 Lumens constant  ) that I have. I will probably be adding more 1000W HPS. Im going to stick with soil, and will have more than plenty of space to mess around until Im happy. Might plug 5 gallon pots into 15 gal buckets and run a DWC (as I just found some brand new 200 gph water pumps) .... dunno will have to wait and see. Thanks for your interest..... feel free to interject any comments any time..... and 

Edit: I will have enough space to run 10-12 1000W HPS on a rotating harvest schedule. As it is, a lot of electrical work needs to be done first etc. etc. Thats why its a perpetually growing perpetual grow


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## DWR (Aug 15, 2009)

ahhaa here you are


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 15, 2009)

went and took a bunch of PK cuttings today (20)... they had a long drive, hope that most make it...


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## jonboy30 (Aug 16, 2009)

how much $$ does it cost to run your 1000 watt Hps a month?


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## northeastern lights (Aug 16, 2009)

jonboy30 said:


> how much $$ does it cost to run your 1000 watt Hps a month?


 
I push about 15-17 amps. Roughly every amp is 100 watts. makes my bill go up between 70-80$.


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## jonboy30 (Aug 16, 2009)

northeastern lights said:


> I push about 15-17 amps. Roughly every amp is 100 watts. makes my bill go up between 70-80$.


 70-80$ for 15-17 amps? Because I want to know how much $$ to put aside running my 150 watt Hps...about 1/15th your amount?


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## NewGrowth (Aug 16, 2009)

northeastern lights said:


> I push about 15-17 amps. Roughly every amp is 100 watts. makes my bill go up between 70-80$.


That is at 120V I run 240V for my lights and they pull half the amperage only about 4 amps per 1000 watts. 

My bill is no less than if I ran 120V . . . .

My bill is about $100 a month and I pull 2700 watts plus A/C, pumps, ect.


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 16, 2009)

7 amps for the 1000W on a 15 amp circuit 110v lines. costs $35 a month to run the light. $50 a month per 1000W set up.


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## jonboy30 (Aug 16, 2009)

Cool...thanks for the info!..


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 16, 2009)

no problem..... I actually haven't checked to see if any of those seeds sprouted..... I expected some to germ by now, and for them to start to sprout tomorrow or the next day..... I will go check later..... haven't really done anything for the cuttings either, its dry in there and there is lots of air movement and I haven't misted the cuttings at all not even when i took them...... way too much going on.... I gotta take a smoke break....... after I take a shower...... and I can focus on growing a little bit after that.... oh and I have to go water all the outdoor....... sometime or not......


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## bigjesse1922 (Aug 17, 2009)

I pay $199 per month almost to the penny to run my 13k BTU a/c, my 1k watt flower room ballast, my 400 watt veg ballast, and all the power for tv's, the stove, washer and dryer, computers, dishwasher, hot water heater, etc etc.


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 17, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> I pay $199 per month almost to the penny to run my 13k BTU a/c, my 1k watt flower room ballast, my 400 watt veg ballast, and all the power for tv's, the stove, washer and dryer, computers, dishwasher, hot water heater, etc etc.


 
yeppers.... damn pg+e


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## bigjesse1922 (Aug 17, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> yeppers.... damn pg+e


You catch on fast!

Not my company though! 

Really close TLD.


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 17, 2009)

Im not happy about the seeds I planted....

Not the seeds, but the set up and lack of attention.

I haven't watered and I know the layer they are in got completely dry.

I might have to pull them out and germ them ....... that would really suck......

I might just switch a couple things around and givem some water......

Not sure yet.

Won't know till I get there in a few hours..... sighs, shrugs, sad, gotta tend the OD


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## bigjesse1922 (Aug 17, 2009)

Why don't you germ them first??


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 17, 2009)

why should I?


When I went back to look and maybe mess with things........ had two sprouts of everything but Twilight, no twilight yet..... though I expected the Twilight to sprout last....... all cuttings are still alive, still haven't given them any real attention...... see how it all turns out by this Friday


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Aug 17, 2009)

what? no Twilight?!?! chicks are gonna be mad!!!  LOL j/k  damn edward


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 17, 2009)

yeah..... that was the first thing my wife said when we were discussing it. Twilight has become a blockbuster hit


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## DWR (Aug 18, 2009)

How are the seeds m8 ?


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 18, 2009)

DWR said:


> How are the seeds m8 ?


Funny you should ask. here they are .

there are four rows of five 1 gal. pots labelled by strain as A-E

Rows are from Left to Right- Twilight, Mauii Skunk, Widow Cindy, Chemo Cindy 

the seeds that poppered are as follows:

Twilight- 0
Mauii Skunk- A,B,C,E
Widow Cindy- A,D
Chemo Cindy- A,C,D,E

so 10 sprouts of 20 seeds in 48hr. 5 that didn't sprout are Twilight. They should come up by the 96 hr mark. The other 5 should sprout in the next 24 hrs.

I remoisened the top soil with a spray bottle .

The rockwhool cubes for the cuttings that I took were dryish (because of dry airflow/lack of humidity) so I poured one cup of water in the tray . Not really focussing too much on them at all.... just lettin them do whatever.... next couple batches of clones I will be a bit more involved with .

I will get the larger veg area set up right after Sept 1st. (perfect timing  ). Start getting the first flower set up going then too . Some pics for yah,


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## DWR (Aug 18, 2009)

nice stuff dragon 

what strains are they ?


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 18, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Funny you should ask. here they are .
> 
> there are four rows of five 1 gal. pots labelled by strain as A-E
> 
> ...


 
 says there Twilight, Mauii Skunk, Widow Cindy, and Chemo Cindy


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## FoxCompany426 (Aug 18, 2009)

Woooo, this is gonna be the shit!!!


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 18, 2009)

DWR said:


> nice stuff dragon
> 
> what strains are they ?


 
wish I could rotate in some of that querkle you got ....


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## DWR (Aug 19, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> wish I could rotate in some of that querkle you got ....



? what is querkle ? a strain ?


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Aug 19, 2009)

It's a strain by subcool


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 19, 2009)

whoops..... sorry.... its RaiderMan thats growing that..... my bad......

Its your Trainwreck I wanted .....

I like some of the phenotypes of trainwreck..... I want to breed trainwreck and play around till Im happy with it


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 19, 2009)

All 5 Mauii Skunk have sprouted

All 5 Chemo Cindy have sprouted

4 Widow Cindy Sprouts


And to my delight and surprise..... 3 Twilights had sprouted when I looked this morning..... they are still sucking on their seeds, but I expect everything to have sprouted and be starting on their second leaf set by Friday.... so we'll say that Friday is day one of veg ..... So 17 total in 72 hrs  The other ones should pop up today 
Just looking at them I can tell the cuttings are super pissed off at me..... they look like shit  ...... and Im not going to do anything about it!  We shall see how many make it of the 20 cuttings I took..... high estimate of 7 low estimate of 4 or 5..... but who knows maybe 12-17 will take root? LOL.... not in a great big hurry with those cuttings..... going to take more as soon as the trays empty anyways  Won't be until this time next month I will be firing up the 1000W HPS  and Im already super excited about it!

I have more growing space than I know what to do with........ not enough lights ......


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 20, 2009)

everything has popped and moved past the cotyledons and onto their next set of leaves accept for one Widow Cindy seed (Yes all the Twilight has popped). Things will start to go off faster now .... I pulled 6 cuttings out of the rockwhool cubes and don't regret it..... they are done and gone, rubbed into the dirt ....... see how many root by Monday, if none by then Im going to scratch the whole batch and use my Secondary PK mother..... as it is Im going to have to move a SS and use it as the new mother...... sadly the most likely candidate for that is in a raised bed........ going to take a full batch of clones I will care for more in depth this upcoming Tuesday, and I will do I pick update at the same time....... semi gloss flat white paint fresh coat for the first flowering area just got put up..... electricity checked..... enough to start with the two HPS just like I want to...... cycling in the second HPS for a rotating harvest (approximately 30 days apart) I am hoping to end up having consistant harvests every 30 days off of a 1000W HPS each time..... should have the full set up established by this time next year.... perpetually building up to then.... so thats six harvests building up to it..... maybe get 2 1000W HPS per harvest??? Picking more patients that are more willing to donate materials (like ballasts and lights for example  ) Gunna be super busy till next week.... but I will definitely update with the news then  ..... stay cool peeps, and keep those plants lush


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 26, 2009)

going to put my 400W MH back together by this time next week.

Going to get another brand new 400W MH next week as well.

Found a 175W MH ballast and fixture rather randomly today, not sure yet if it works or how well, but it would be perfect for seedlings.

Going to set up the new veg area next Wednesday or Thursday.

Going to take on 4 or 5 more plants once its set up... slightly larger plants that need to be revegged, they may become mothers or just go out in the new greenhouse in late October or November to flower.... not sure....

Sorry no pics today. Still everything but that one has sprouted (the one that hasn't sprouted grew a tale but got no farther so far as I can tell).... they are almost on their third node, a little stretched, Im going to move them closer to the lights this evening.

Excited and exhausted..... I will try to get pics up tomorrow...... sorry


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## phreakygoat (Aug 26, 2009)

shit bout to blow up, dude. can't wait to see the evolution! +rep


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## robert 14617 (Aug 28, 2009)

I keep telling my wife ,we can trade all our house pets for a fainting goat


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 29, 2009)

still haven't gotten to take pics..... I need to water them again within the next 6 hrs sometime......

A little more important........ I hate shopping......

There are so many different Metal Hallide and HID products available, I hate sifting through all the sites and BS to find a good set up at a good price...... *anyone have suggestions based on experience?* I am looking for a 400w or 600w MH complete set up (complete and assembled ballast, bulb, fixture, and hood)....... trying to spend less than $250 on it....... gunna start putting the one I have back together this evening...... crossing my fingers and hoping it works..... my veg room is about 10 feet by 10 feet, and all I need is to figure out this damn lighting thing to get it all going!

but My thinking is this:

put one 400W MH in one corner for these seedlings (The new one I want to buy) covering a 4' by 4' area

put the other 400W MH in the corner diagnally opposite to the seedlings for 5 larger plants I need to reveg (the one I re assemble) covering a 3 1/2' by 3 1/2' area or so

Put the CFL/fluorescent panel in the only corner left over for cuttings/clones

And put the 175 MH I have in the middle of the room for any random left over whatever I need to keep alive or what ever...... just additional lighting....

So far as I know there is only one 120v 20 amp circuit going into the room (it was an add on to the place)....... so....... 975 watts MH total, and about 280 watts Fluorescents total, plus an a/c and circular fan...... how is this going to work out? I would really rather not blow the circuit as its shared by the bathroom next to it I think....


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## bigjesse1922 (Aug 29, 2009)

Try htgsupply.com

I am running a 400 watt Sun System ballast and reflector/hood and getting excellent results in my veg tent!


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## NewGrowth (Aug 29, 2009)

I think you will be hard pressed to find a really decent reflector and ballast for under $250. Unless you build it yourself. Are you planning on air-cooling?

HTG sells ok stuff, it seems to last but a well made ballast runs much cooler and gives you some piece of mind.

Do you not have a local hydro shop? Usually I find that working with someone locally can help you get stuff at lower prices. A lot of shops reward loyalty and some have pre-owned merchandise at a discount.

Either way you really get what you pay for.


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## northeastern lights (Aug 29, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> still haven't gotten to take pics..... I need to water them again within the next 6 hrs sometime......
> 
> A little more important........ I hate shopping......
> 
> ...


 
Roughly ever amp is 100 watts on the safe side. I wouldn't want to push more than 15 amps on a 20 amp breaker. I run about 15 amp but I ran a 30 amp sub panel off the main feed.


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## curious old fart (Aug 29, 2009)

You have 2400 watts available. Depending on what your AC draws you should be alright, providing you run cfl's in your bathroom and don't even think about a blow dryer!!!


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## curious old fart (Aug 29, 2009)

I'm running a 600 digital hps from HTG supply and highly recommend the digital ballast, it draws about 10% less wattage than a standard ballast. As close as your wattage tolerance is you might consider it.


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## northeastern lights (Aug 29, 2009)

curious old fart said:


> I'm running a 600 digital hps from HTG supply and highly recommend the digital ballast, it draws about 10% less wattage than a standard ballast. As close as your wattage tolerance is you might consider it.


 
I also have a 600 HPS. Love it. I used to run 2 400 watt hps. The 600 on the mover is less juice and better growth.


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 29, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> Try htgsupply.com
> 
> I am running a 400 watt Sun System ballast and reflector/hood and getting excellent results in my veg tent!


I checked em out..... might end up going that route, thanks its much appreciated!



NewGrowth said:


> I think you will be hard pressed to find a really decent reflector and ballast for under $250. Unless you build it yourself. Are you planning on air-cooling?
> 
> HTG sells ok stuff, it seems to last but a well made ballast runs much cooler and gives you some piece of mind.
> 
> ...


Your absolutely right....... but

Local hydro shop= 350 + bulb  ..... thought for a split second about getting another ballast kit..... but I want reliability and a warranty 



northeastern lights said:


> Roughly ever amp is 100 watts on the safe side. I wouldn't want to push more than 15 amps on a 20 amp breaker. I run about 15 amp but I ran a 30 amp sub panel off the main feed.


I stop at 12 amp on a 20 amp circuit



curious old fart said:


> You have 2400 watts available. Depending on what your AC draws you should be alright, providing you run cfl's in your bathroom and don't even think about a blow dryer!!!


Yeah... AC draws 4 amps...... gotta run another line in just for it and the two circulating fans Im going to use.



curious old fart said:


> I'm running a 600 digital hps from HTG supply and highly recommend the digital ballast, it draws about 10% less wattage than a standard ballast. As close as your wattage tolerance is you might consider it.


I will only buy digital ballasts.....



northeastern lights said:


> I also have a 600 HPS. Love it. I used to run 2 400 watt hps. The 600 on the mover is less juice and better growth.


That makes perfect sense..... denser light larger spread 

Exactly why I use 1000W HPS over 600W


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 29, 2009)

might have found something worth getting!

dual 400W MH PFO complete with mogoul sockets and two used bulbs (used system) no hoods. was used for salt water tank???? (I know nothing bout that though)

Might aircool, might not, winter is coming and this room has 3 single pain windows on all exposed sides that are huge....

What yah think???


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## NewGrowth (Aug 29, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> might have found something worth getting!
> 
> dual 400W MH PFO complete with mogoul sockets and two used bulbs (used system) no hoods. was used for salt water tank???? (I know nothing bout that though)
> 
> ...


Looks workable to me, back in the day everybody used aquarium lights to source HID's.


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 29, 2009)

$100 ......  ....... I can make my own hood...... or buy one


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## DWR (Aug 31, 2009)

looking good m8 

bet its allot of hard work...  How many weeks in flower are you allready ?


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## theloadeddragon (Aug 31, 2009)

DWR said:


> looking good m8
> 
> bet its allot of hard work...  How many weeks in flower are you allready ?


 
haven't started flowering yet for this grow... the seedlings are at the mark of week 2 of veg..... they need the lights ASAP..... their not getting enough lumens ....... need more........ working on it.... yeppers lots of work .... you know..... pics tomorrow....


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 2, 2009)

the post above is incorrect, the week two mark for veg is the 5th of Sept. so here is 1 1/2 week pics  ..... everything cracked..... widow cindy are the stragglers..... everything else has surpassed my expectations so far as dealing with the lower than desired lumen output they are getting (according to my desires).

I wasn't able to go down and pick up the dual 400W MH set up... I really hope they are still available so I can pick them up of Friday.... if not I will find something else... until then..... they are being moved... transplanted when they reach 5 or 6 nodes and start really branching out.... couldn't be happier with how this is going so far.... ran a 60 amp 220v into the new veg area for the set up.... all I need is the lights, and a few hundred square feet of reflective lining.....

Remember they are in 4 rowes of 5 in each row A in Front E in back.... from left to right:

Twilight
Mauii Skunk
Widow Cindy
Chemo Cindy

Once the new veg area is set up I will add more plants and clones and start more seeds


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 2, 2009)

Lookin nice! Very lush growth!

Looks like the stems are already quite strong, relative to their size/age!


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## notoriousb (Sep 2, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> the post above is incorrect, the week two mark for veg is the 5th of Sept. so here is 1 1/2 week pics  ..... everything cracked..... widow cindy are the stragglers..... everything else has surpassed my expectations so far as dealing with the lower than desired lumen output they are getting (according to my desires).
> 
> I wasn't able to go down and pick up the dual 400W MH set up... I really hope they are still available so I can pick them up of Friday.... if not I will find something else... until then..... they are being moved... transplanted when they reach 5 or 6 nodes and start really branching out.... couldn't be happier with how this is going so far.... ran a 60 amp 220v into the new veg area for the set up.... all I need is the lights, and a few hundred square feet of reflective lining.....
> 
> ...


lookin good man  
what lights are you using for that veg room right now? I see a couple cfl's and a couple t8's? 
let me know if you need to get any clones off your hands when you start takin them


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 2, 2009)

there is a big circulating fan in there right on them..... strengthening the stems.... gunna start watering with a watering can so the water has more oxygen in it to beefen them up a bit more .... they just started pulling nutes from the FFOF in those pots.... they will start growing fast!


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 2, 2009)

uhhh...

Here is the best pic I could find of the panel.... when I made it I was actually going to put 3 split sockets as a row where the CFL's are, so there would be six CFL's instead of two in a line where you see each of the CFL split sockets... Im going to go ahead and "upgrade" it pretty soon.... as it is the middle 4 ft tube fluorescents just went out


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 2, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> there is a big circulating fan in there right on them..... strengthening the stems.... gunna start watering with a watering can so the water has more oxygen in it to beefen them up a bit more .... they just started pulling nutes from the FFOF in those pots.... they will start growing fast!


Yeah I learned the fan trick myself, still yours seem especially developed for this stage.

I love how the plants take to the FFOF. You can just see their roots reach down and the results that follow! (Well, you can SEE the roots, but I sure PICTURE them)

Good stuff!


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 2, 2009)

well.... I was hoping to time it so that right when they started pulling nutes from the soil, they would go under MH..... didn't work out...... would rather use three fans, two six inchers, and the big one I am already using


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 3, 2009)

moved em all at 2 am..... sucked, I was pissed..... they are all alright though.... update after new lights are set up


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 3, 2009)

transplants next week.... better have MH by then......  I hate money......


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## northeastern lights (Sep 3, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> transplants next week.... better have MH by then......  I hate money......


 

You and me both.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 4, 2009)

they are alright.... need some water... transplant next Saturday.... they are already starting to branch out.....


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 5, 2009)

they are currently going through 2 cups of water every 2 days...... they need more light.... sigh..... I need to fix the damn panel, two more lights went out...... need to get the 400W MH set up ASAP..... all but one is doing well, has at least two leaf sets, the one that isn't started to pop, then just kind of stopped-WC.......... not giving up on it quite yet...... got the pool liner I needed ...... this grow is all about small steps.....


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 9, 2009)

*Pics at 2 1/2 weeks veg*. they are happy for the most part. gotta get a better light situation going by this weekend. They are starting to crowd! I got out the 400W MH ballast I have and did some sottering..... gotta get a bulb and see how it came out...... hoping well so I can get it turned on by this weekend and split the plants up..... only one of the seeds didn't fully sprout (a WC), Im scrapping it when I separate the plants up. Still haven' decided how I am going to do the division. I was really hoping to get the dual MH but it didn't work out  ....... I would like to put ALL of them under MH but........ sigh...... we'll see. Two of the WC are runts, but I still expect great things from them, everything else is very very vigorous (in accordance with light distribution). They are Branching out 3-5 nodes on them, n some have more , not stretching, some bent stalks, but thats ok . They are on schedule ..... I expect to know the sexes of them by this time next month . Transplant next week sometime *IF* I get the MH set up as its supposed to be.

Oh yeah, got an old pool to cut up and use as a liner for the floor ..... and the ebb & flo tables I want to make to flower in 

The last two pics show the lines from left to right:

Twilight, Mauii Skunk, Widow Cindy, Chemo Cindy


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 9, 2009)

watered yesterday evening.... they will be due for some more tomorrow


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## notoriousb (Sep 10, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> *Pics at 2 1/2 weeks veg*. they are happy for the most part. gotta get a better light situation going by this weekend. They are starting to crowd! I got out the 400W MH ballast I have and did some sottering..... gotta get a bulb and see how it came out...... hoping well so I can get it turned on by this weekend and split the plants up..... only one of the seeds didn't fully sprout (a WC), Im scrapping it when I separate the plants up. Still haven' decided how I am going to do the division. I was really hoping to get the dual MH but it didn't work out  ....... I would like to put ALL of them under MH but........ sigh...... we'll see. Two of the WC are runts, but I still expect great things from them, everything else is very very vigorous (in accordance with light distribution). They are Branching out 3-5 nodes on them, n some have more , not stretching, some bent stalks, but thats ok . They are on schedule ..... I expect to know the sexes of them by this time next month . Transplant next week sometime *IF* I get the MH set up as its supposed to be.
> 
> Oh yeah, got an old pool to cut up and use as a liner for the floor ..... and the ebb & flo tables I want to make to flower in
> 
> ...


very nice TLD 
you're gonna rig an ebb & flow table with soil tho??


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 10, 2009)

you'll see


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 12, 2009)

here is a room layout for the first flower room (not including exhaust/intake ventilation ducting, water lines, or circular fans which will all be mounted above or laid below the plant pot basin)

I will start with 1 1000W for a December Harvest (clones go in mid October)

Then I will add another 1000W for February/March Harvest (2000W total)

flower room is 12' 4" Long floor board to floor board

and the subwall will make it 7' wide 7' 6" tall, with its frame extending in two rectangles around both growing areas.

green represents plant pot basin area (6'x5')

the blue rectangles on the right hand side represent 2 window A/C units, and I will vent out the hot exhaust above them.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 12, 2009)

ok I don't really feel like explaining this layout as far as whats where, accept to say there will be 2 12" circulation fans on the back wall corners, and the cool air intake will be to the front..... hopefully you can read the text areas and you will get the picture...... I will at some point explain the reasoning behind each element of the set up..... if anyone really wants me too..... maybe I will just for future referrence.... who knows....... This is an example of how the height is broken down


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 12, 2009)

if anyone has any comments or suggestions.... now would definitely be the time..... I will be setting this all up in the next three weeks, so I can do a dry run for about day or so before putting plants in there.


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## raiderman (Sep 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> if anyone has any comments or suggestions.... now would definitely be the time..... I will be setting this all up in the next three weeks, so I can do a dry run for about day or so before putting plants in there.


looks like the real deal,those 1000s out to put out some large buds,,cant wait till mine gets here.great job. all looks great .


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## slabhead (Sep 13, 2009)

Thanks for the lay out diagrams. Does it say "This room is actually 18 ft tall"? Holy crap!!!!


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## cbtwohundread (Sep 13, 2009)

forwarding along.,.,lovely cant wait to c were u take this gro op.,.,.,keep it up'n'up


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 13, 2009)

yeah the room is 18 feet tall.... part of why I am building the subwall.... to close it in a little bit (insulate for easier climate regulation)..... I will probably keep both these tables operating even after I get the 1000 sq ft (30 ft tall or so) wherehouse set up next summer ..... I might plug in some CO2 after the first harvest .... might... getting the clones here pretty soon


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## raiderman (Sep 13, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> yeah the room is 18 feet tall.... part of why I am building the subwall.... to close it in a little bit (insulate for easier climate regulation)..... I will probably keep both these tables operating even after I get the 1000 sq ft (30 ft tall or so) wherehouse set up next summer ..... I might plug in some CO2 after the first harvest .... might... getting the clones here pretty soon


 thats the way my garage is in height ,till i got some poly wrap and sqared a room off .ns gro diagram,bet ya cant wait till yu get it perpetual.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 14, 2009)

pics at a *3 weeks 1 day* 

pics are just before watering this morning

the plants will have used up Most of the available nutrients in the soil by my next watering, so they will get a little bit of Earth Juice grow on Wednesday.

Then when they are ready to be watered again I will transplant them into larger pots. And they won't need any nutes for two weeks after the transplant (so yay, I get to save the nutes  ). The larger pots will be both taller and wider using almost all of the available space under the panel.

I am going to pick up 9 more regular light moguls and mougul split sockets so I can add 18 more CFL's to the panel.

I expect they will have outgrown the panel's capacity by the first week of October. I hope they have shown sex by then so they can be separated and put under 400W MH's and I can start cloning the mothers, and flowering the males for their pollen.

They have started branching out, so they really need those extra lumens........ hoping with the added CFL's I will get 15,000 lumens/square foot on the canopy, and 4,000-8,000 penetrating to the lower growth.

The panel is set 34" above the floor, and the larger pots are 12" tall, so they should be almost 2 feet when they go under the MH lights. I should hopefully be able to get 30 clones between all the mothers about a week after they go under the MH.

Clones should be rooted and 8-12 inches tall by the End of October, for the first flowering set. ......

So:
Any opinions??

Oh yeah.... I removed the sproutless pots.... and there are two stragglers..... both are WC (widow Cindy) and I expect both will be females 

In the pics where you can see the labels... it is same as always..... from L to R Twilight, Mauii Skunk, Widow Cindy, Chemo Cindy

Mauii Skunk and both WC and CC are my favorites so far ......


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## dgk4life (Sep 14, 2009)

well good god dam dragon thanks for the late invite.... lookin good bro any help i can give ill b honored


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 14, 2009)

well in the words of the great treemansbuds "Damn TLD, your a busy guy"

shrugs....

Your here before it all really gets going ......... any and all input is appreciated.... I like to think I got it all under control, but my wife proves me wrong every day (she really has me all under control  )

Speaking of the devil...... I gotta go......


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## dgk4life (Sep 14, 2009)

(whip cracks) coming dear lol


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 15, 2009)

yeah..... exactly..... damn I love it when she wears black leather


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Sep 15, 2009)

hahahaha, sounds like things are good with you my friend! keep it irie


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## northeastern lights (Sep 17, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> yeah..... exactly..... damn I love it when she wears black leather


 

Lol, didn't know you were into that sort of thing TlD


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 21, 2009)

me either till she got me drunk one night.....


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 21, 2009)

I transplanted the Mauii Skunk yesterday into 5 gal. pots...... Everything else ran out of available nutrients so I gave them a light feeding (1/2 strength) of Earth Juice grow . They will hold until I get more soil to transplant the rest tomorrow. I also got 6 more CFL split mogouls to put up 12 more CFL's on that fluorescent panel. 3 more will go in after that (so 6 more CFL's) which is a total of 18 more CFL's adding 28,800 to the 28,800 lumens that are already being provided , giving me 57,600 constan lumens on that 3'x4'x3' area...... spread out so it is evenly dispursed at approximately 4800 lumens per square ft one foot away from the actual lights themselves (meaning about 4000 lumens will be penetrating to the lower growth). and the canopy will be receiving approximately 9,000 lumens per sq ft (4 inches away from lights). Each plant is approaching 18 inches tall.... each plant has branches with at least 2 nodes on them...... they are a week or two away from showing sex and being ready to clone and separate. I will basically be increasing lumen exposure as they get older . Spectrum is blue dominant at 3200-3500 plus a couple at about 4800-5200 (kelvin). I will update with pics once they have been transplanted, 

They really need for me to get that HID on them!


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 21, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I transplanted the Mauii Skunk yesterday into 5 gal. pots...... Everything else ran out of available nutrients so I gave them a light feeding (1/2 strength) of Earth Juice grow . They will hold until I get more soil to transplant the rest tomorrow. I also got 6 more CFL split mogouls to put up 12 more CFL's on that fluorescent panel. 3 more will go in after that (so 6 more CFL's) which is a total of 18 more CFL's adding 28,800 to the 28,800 lumens that are already being provided , giving me 57,600 constan lumens on that 3'x4'x3' area...... spread out so it is evenly dispursed at approximately 4800 lumens per square ft one foot away from the actual lights themselves (meaning about 4000 lumens will be penetrating to the lower growth). and the canopy will be receiving approximately 9,000 lumens per sq ft (4 inches away from lights). Each plant is approaching 18 inches tall.... each plant has branches with at least 2 nodes on them...... they are a week or two away from showing sex and being ready to clone and separate. I will basically be increasing lumen exposure as they get older . Spectrum is blue dominant at 3200-3500 plus a couple at about 4800-5200 (kelvin). I will update with pics once they have been transplanted,
> 
> They really need for me to get that HID on them!


Its the PAR that's important, lumens are just for show!


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 21, 2009)

lol.......

(*PPFD*) *photosynthetic photon flux density* 

If the PAR is already being regulated in the manufacture of the bulb/hood/lining etc. and included in your lux measurements, lumens do count for something 

for anyone interested....... http://4e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=t&id=131


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## bigjesse1922 (Sep 21, 2009)

Sure they don't. 

I mean do. 

What was I sayin again?


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 22, 2009)

picked up more soil for the transplant, ....... mixing perlite, Bio Bizz All Mix, and Fox Farms Ocean Forest together for the 5 gal pots....... got a new complete 400W system on its way ....... hopefully have it set up on the first, and have another one set up right around then too ........ happy for now..... another layout or two are on there way, and a pic update tomorrow after I transplant and add in the extra CFL's that I got.....

and lumens counting is unarguable as they are used in measuring PAR (on one level or another)


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 24, 2009)

Mothers From Seed (Transplant) 9-22 10 pm-11:30pm

2 bags Bio Bizz All Mix
1 1/3 bags Fox Farms Ocean Forest
1 3/4 cu ft Perlite

Evenly mixed for desired consistancy and spread between 14 5 gal pots.

They were pre arranged under the lights as follows: L to R Twilight, Widow Cindy, Chemo Cindy, and Maui Skunk.... Or front to back depending on from which side your looking at the area from.

Order of transplants (pics in same order):
1st Chemo Cindy, 2nd Widow Cindy, 3rd Twilight

None of the new CFL's were installed until the next morning, and I hope to get pics of how the panel is now (still unfinished!) later this afternoon.

I am going to consider the *start of veg at 8-20-09*
Which puts these ladies at *exactly 5 weeks today*.

I was thinking that the maturation to preflower would be starting within the next two weeks 9-25 to 10-12, but yesterday while tending I noticed that at least one Widow Cindy, and maybe a couple others, are starting to develop the preflowers starting at the 4th-6th nodes .

My *GUESS* as to the prospective females are as follows:
3 of 4 Widow Cindy
2-3 of 5 Chemo Cindy
2 of 5 Twilight (though I am still holding out for all females from the Twilight  )
2-4 of 5 Mauii Skunk (the most aggressively vigorous strain thus far)

totalling about 10 females of 19 plants. I will deal with the males as the show themselves, .

Once sex is established and they simply won't fit under the fluorescent panel any more (I will raise it another 4-6 inches tops) I will split the strains up under two 400W MH (one brand new!  ). they will be split as:
Mauii Skunk and Twilight under one MH
And Chemo Cindy and Widow Cindy under the other MH.

And Now for some rough schedule guidelines:

* The first set of clones will be taken 10-15 to 10-24 sometime. 30-35 cuttings total from the first session, going under the fluorescent panel. At this point I will elect to keep only (hopefully) two mothers of each strain.

- 1st set of clones will go into flower 11-5 to 11-12 sometime 

* Second set of clones will come off 11-5 to 11-15 sometime 

- Second set of clones will go into flower under a new 1000W HPS 12-12 to 12-15 sometime 

* Third set of clones will be taken 12-5 to 12-12 sometime

$ First Set of clones will be harvested 1-12 to 1-24 sometime (yeah 2010)

-Third set of clones will go into flower 1-12 to 1-24 sometime 

*Fourth set of clones will be taken 1-12 to 1-20 sometime 

$ Second Set of clones harvested 2-15 to 2 20 some time

- Fourth set of clones go into flower 2-15 to 2-20 sometime 


And so on.....

Some of the clones will go into the greenhouse once its completed so there will be some extra here and there ones.

Male pollen will be collected and temporarily stored of each strain that produces males, before they are disposed of.
The mothers may be replaced in February leaving the old mothers to regenerate and flower with select pollens on select portions of the flowering plants (3 weeks into flower) based on the strain, phenotypes/characteristics, vigour etc. and the rest of the non seeded flowers will be compared to the earlier clone harvests as far as quality etc.
This will give me continued seed stock, And New Strains 

The replacement mothers would have to be ready to give clones by the End of February to continue the indoor grows.... and by then I should Also need to Expand Veg space   ..... as the expansion to where house grow is expected *Starting* at the end of February.....


SO..... I will basically be figuring it out as I go 

And..... I should have a couple Purple Kush clones and Sensi Star clones to plug in as additional mothers to keep the genetics as my staple strains  (they have been so good to me  )

I will have a few more layout designs and bits of schematics etc. to post as we go too  like the one I am about to do this weekend showing the actual table design for my first flowering set up in this grow 

Heres the pics  ...... my camera it seems may have taken a crap on me so I had to use a different one..... should hopefully be buying a new one around the end of Oct.

And yes I will be turning pots to keep growth uhhh centered or even or whatever you want to call it..... but the added lights should help with the "curvature" hopefully


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Sep 24, 2009)

Solid update bro, still tuned in and eagerly following


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## dgk4life (Sep 24, 2009)

very nice loaded how much did your 400w cost ya


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 24, 2009)

196... fully assembled built in unit, hood and air cooled ballast 5 yr warranty w/out bulb.... shipped...... before 30% discount..... sunblast I think.... can't recall right this second.... Im sure I will post about it excitedly when I set it up  (won't be here for a week)


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## doublejj (Sep 24, 2009)

I feel you bro, I'm with you!

I'll be keeping an eye on this.

Peace
jj


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 25, 2009)

cool glad you could join us 

about 6-8 plants are starting to develop preflowers right now..... I am only interested in keeping 1 Mauii Skunk Male (the most vigorous and desirable) and 1 Twilight male (again the most vigorous and with most desirable characteristics) for pollen.... the rest of the males will be culled out as they are discovered. Time to start building the flowering area up.... I plan on flowering out any of the Extra females for breeding and some extra buds ASAP...... I need the veg space..... gotta go pick up that new light too!


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 25, 2009)

I am only going to be able to construct half of the first flowering area at first......


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 26, 2009)

still haven't finished adding in all the new CFL's ..... they are mad at me for it..... they all took the transplants well..... not watered since..... will probably water them tomorrow night


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## dgk4life (Sep 26, 2009)

good to hear bro..im transplantin my next round tomorrow.. but i think im gonna have a jungle again instead of my desired sog bc i cut the clones to early and they r gonna have 6 wks veg time.. boo!!!!!!!!! so i been pinchin every thing to make them bush more and grow less... i hope


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 26, 2009)

lol.... I hope that works out for you...... I will just raise the lights and add extra supplemental lighting if they go too high or get too bushed ...... I just want to maximize the space


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## dgk4life (Sep 26, 2009)

i feel ya.. in my sog i was gettin a oz a piece.. this time around im not sure ill hit that.. sad face here


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 26, 2009)

really?? even with larger bushier plants? less of a yield? hmmmm...... I suppose its all in the method..... there must be a larger numbers difference in the amount of plants that you have


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## dgk4life (Sep 27, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> really?? even with larger bushier plants? less of a yield? hmmmm...... I suppose its all in the method..... there must be a larger numbers difference in the amount of plants that you have


 idk i always get nervous around harvest time.. especially when this time im growing in a way i have not in a yr and forgot what to expect.. im sure ill be ok but its harder to judge when the buds r all spaced out instead of concentrated in to 4 or 5 main buds per plant.. idk loaded im scared hold me


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 27, 2009)

you'll be fine bro..... it is what it is ........ do what your soul pushes you to, not what your gut throws at you ....... will work out just fine  ........ haven't seen any updates........


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## curious old fart (Sep 27, 2009)

I've been following your grows and have learned a lot. Thank you. In your schedule you mentioned collecting and storing pollen, would you please elaborate? Such as when and how to collect and how do you store it?


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 27, 2009)

[youtube]eAaQNACwaLw[/youtube]


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 27, 2009)

I am going to have to use sealable bags to collect the pollen (putting the bags over the tops BEFORE the pollen sacs open and fertile pollen is released into the air, they "plump" and the sides splay out the evening before they "pop") the point being to keep the pollen from being exposed in concentration to the flowering room its equipment, and its future constituents unintentionally. By cutting the tops and SEALING them and re sealing them, I hope not to inadvertently spread the pollen through cracks in bags or mishandling. then I will sterilize the room. Then sterilize the room again..... You can watch the process unfold...... stored in the fridge (the pollen) and will be used in the 25-30 days following pollen collection on select females in select portions of the plants, I prefer to introduce pollen to the females no earlier than the second week of full flower and no later than the fourth, and particularly to the lower branch tops and middle top branch tops but not the top tops  ...... and I will give the pollinated females a slightly different nutrient schedule than I normally would. 

This will all be happening in the not too far future, as they are starting to show sex....... unused portions of the male plants (including unused pollen pods) will be immediately burned in a sealed environment, , and not inhaled by these lungs  ..... my biggest obstacle is *having the time* to ensure this process goes off without any hiccups, I am prepping as much as I can...... taking time off work to just get it done


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 27, 2009)

I sure do hope that the 400W is there tomorrow, their closed today so I couldn't call to find out..... I need the space for new genetics.... will check to see if the preflowers are developed enough to determine the sex of any of them this evenning when I raise the lights.... might as well take some pics at the same time.... lol and then some pics when the new light is put in...... lol...... Flowering room will be operational by the 15th of October...... lets cross our fingers that I can manage to stay CLOSE to my schedule outline.......


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 27, 2009)

looked like a couple male Maui Skunks and a couple female Chemo Cindys..... nothing concrete..... camera sucks no pics today sorry...... will prolly water tomorrow


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 28, 2009)

read through my whole journal thus far and realised how far behind I fell

I really need to get this 220V line hooked up......

the line goes out into the room, but its capped and I need to put in a socket......

anyone have step by step advice??

Im picking up a new 400W MH, and two bulbs, one for the 400W MH I already have and NEED to get them running tonight.....

Please! Some help???

on a 60 amp breaker (2 30's) I will not put in another circuit panel...... would like to have regular grounded plugs to plug in the lights and A/C etc.!

Please Please help........


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

didn't hook up the 220v..... think I am going to stretch it to the flowering area after the first harvest, I don't think I will need it in the veg room after all .

am running the new 400W on the same 110v..... 500W of CFLs, two circular fans and the 400W MH are all on the one circuit.

its a Sunleaves Pulsar Two-Way Mini 400W was $170

I have the Maui Skunk and Twilight under it........ and speaking of which..... first confirmed female is Maui Skunk D  ...... three other Maui Skunk plants are prospective females.... on the other hand it looks as though I have a couple Twilight males and a couple other males of WC and CC....... all but four plants are showing preflower development, and I think they will mostly all show sex by Oct. 10th. Im anxious to get rid of some males. I still need to put reflective lining around it, but that will probably wait till tomorrow. Since its a conversion lamp I may be putting it in the flowering room in Jan as supplemental go between HPS lighting to make full use of the flowering rectangle provided in the room ..... we'll see..... Im happy its in anyways  ..... Sunmaster Warm Deluxe bulb in there, they should like it 

18/6 starts now 

*so lights go out 6 pm tomorrow to midnight.  they all got watered this morning as well, 5 1/2 weeks* *veg* I think


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

decided fuck it......... took some pics

just keep in mind its uber late.... didn't get to set it up till uber late...... and I still need to fuss with the poly plastics etc. tomorrow...... but its functional  10" away from canopy....... The Maui Skunk are in front, the twilight in back (up against wall lining), and the widow cindy and chemo cindy are in the fluorescent area until the sexes are determined, males are taken, and then they will go under other MH..... I can't wait to weed out some males.... going to have to wait to set up the other 400W MH....... I would ideally have just a couple mothers under each 400w, with clones under the fluorescents until they are large enough to flower.

Theres one of my buddies in that last pic chillin in the twilight  ..... tons of them around TONS


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

the question Im asking myself right now is...... should I top these potential mothers??


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

still debating whether I should top those plants ^^^^^ please feel free to throw out your opinions.....

actually going to get to framing in some of the flowering room tonight, ..... and finish lining the 400W area with reflective materials and tweaking it a bit..... hopefully get to add in 3 new strains tomorrow..... not sure yet...... everything is ready though..... and really anxious to get some males removed and some set aside..... in the meantime, just one of the meanings.... sigh.....

While I remember...... WCxSS sounds like a very very good cross..... as does Maui SkunkxPurple Kush....... I am going to attempt it I think sometime....


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## dgk4life (Sep 29, 2009)

loaded i got a boy in cali sendin me some seeds i want a good purp strain that will yield well in a sog.. any tips


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

Purple Kush..... GDP (is about avg), dah purps, green grape, purple goo, Mendo Purps, they are all fairly decent yielders..... Blue Dream, Blue Moonshine...... any of those I would go with.... its all up to you..... definitely try to stick with an indica dominant hybrid


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## dgk4life (Sep 29, 2009)

loaded my future grows r in your hands.. give it to me str8 doc if i was u wat would i grow????


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

Does it have to be purple??

Purple Kush hands down (blue and purple)

Blue moonshine (blue and purple)

and Mendo Purps ties with Purple Deseil ( both are very very purple)

Blue Dream (blue hues) 

In order of first choice to last choice ^^^...... but out of all the other purps that the list...... do I have to narrow it down further? Can I suggest strains that aren't purple?


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## dgk4life (Sep 29, 2009)

see i want purp bc if u saw the bs that be passin for "purple haze" perp this purp that on my side of the country u would laugh and they gettin 60 a 1/8 for barely tolerable imitation purple.. but if i had some legit purp i would be able 2 kill it and maybe fly out to cali to see a new friend


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

purple wreck is also a very worth while purple strain to grow..... if your lucky enough to get the right pheno types it would be staple and continuously clone worthy ...... *Hands Down Purple Kush* is the one I would pick if I could pick only one..... but only the real SR71 clone only strain of purple kush...... hard to come by....... only a handful of growers that I know of that have it including myself...... so it may be very difficult to locate.....


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## moonin (Sep 29, 2009)

Stopped in to check out your grow ended up watching a two hour documentary lol.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

funny how that works huh?

took me 6 hours just to watch the damn thing because of buffering


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## moonin (Sep 29, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> funny how that works huh?
> 
> took me 6 hours just to watch the damn thing because of buffering


 Ya slow internet sucks man goes just fast enough to keep you surfing. Interesting video though got to video those videos with a bit of salt, well worth watching I think.


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 29, 2009)

yeah... salt.... but they got the general picture..... I just thought people ought to see another side of the plate


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## theloadeddragon (Sep 30, 2009)

wasn't able to do any framing in the flowering area..... it flooded, so I had to clean that up.... hopefully I get to it soon.... really soon


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 1, 2009)

got started on framing the flowering area today...... and two new strains found their way into the garden today ..... going to have pulled 5 or 6 males by the end of the weekend.... so there will be plenty of space 

the new strains are

Jack herer

and

Silverback

now things are getting moving... couple more females too  as long as I get one of each strain I will be happy,


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 2, 2009)

more framing today should be done framing by the end of the weekend, and started on the plant pot basin/table and the subwall should be done too, , the ballast and light and fans installation next week, first phase of the flowering room should be operational by the 15th, ..... and I already have a list of things that I am picking up a month after that for the second phase .....

Im stoked!

plants were watered yesterday..... gunna pull them out this evening or tomorrow morning to get rid of some males and do some organizing, 

still planning on knowing the sex of all the plants by the 10th, and taking my first batch of clones around then too I think ....

And TONIGHT I am taking PK and Sensi Star cuttings, Finally! I will do it this time! lol...... so they will finally be added to the mix like I *should should should* have done two months ago!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 2, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Mothers From Seed (Transplant) 9-22 10 pm-11:30pm
> 
> 2 bags Bio Bizz All Mix
> 1 1/3 bags Fox Farms Ocean Forest
> ...


Schedule bump!


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## bigjesse1922 (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm here brother!

Not much to add, you know more than me! 

But I am here, along for the ride! Lurker 2009!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 2, 2009)

thanks bud.... I just tried to take pics of the work in progress, but with a shitty camera and none of the pics would save!  sorry..... Im sure I will get some good pics when its done,


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## bigjesse1922 (Oct 2, 2009)

Oh trust me I understand. I have a shitty camera as well and a setup that is hard to move around.

I have to take the plants out to photograph them which is a bitch!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 2, 2009)

I will have fluorescent side lighting to use..... just turn off the HPS and leave the fluorescents on to take pics 

okay.... got enough lumber to finsih framing etc. got enough double sided poly plastic lining to line it in.... fans are good to go 

shit..... looks like the flowering room will be operable by the end of the weekend.... 

only got to take PK cuttings tonight (2 of them).... got too dark to see what I was doing... Sensi Star cuttings tomorrow, and cross my fingers they root! I can get more Sensi Star pretty easily I think.... the PK though...... I really Need for it to root.....

Time to get rid of some Males! ...... and I will try and get pics up this evening so you can see the guts before the gusto.....

*One thing people that read my journals or grows should know- its about practicality and damning the man (not spending very much money), not about how pretty everything is.
*
Thus far I have spent $25 on materials for the flowering room.... lumber included..... the HPS ballast was $100 and came with the exhaust fan ventilation polyplastic and celefane two + years ago.... the bulb is an Eye Hortilux Super HPS $119 and has 800 hrs of use on it (my last indoor grow)..... window A/C was free..... lumber was free..... thus far the only thing I have boughten is new 5 mil reflective poly plastic lining.

The second phase will cost $1500 in new materials.... Im formulating a list  I will post it when done 

with all that being said I will try to get new pics up tonight of the flowering area,


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 2, 2009)

I decided I just don't have the time/energy/space to keep any males around... I have enough seeds to grow some more and breed later..... so ALL the males are coming out as they are found


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 3, 2009)

ok sexing is already almost done 

*Twilight*
A-nothing yet
*B- Female*
C- Male, pulled
D- Male, pulled
*E- Female*

*Mauii Skunk*
A- Male Pulled
B- Male, pulled
C- Male, pulled
*D- Female*
*E- Looks Female*

*Widow Cindy*
*A- Female*
C- Nothing, though this is my favorite WC
D- Male, pulled
*E- Female*

*Chemo Cindy*
A- Not Sure yet
B- Male, pulled
*C- Female*
D- Male, pulled
*E- Female*

so that's 2 females each so far..... 8 females, and 3 unknowns.... the females and looks females plus the one twilight that hasn't shown are all under the 400W MH

the two others that haven't quite shown yet (one WC one CC) are under the fluorescent until they show for sure..... they are with the 2 JH clones and 1 SilverBack clone (if anyone has a link or info about SilverBack I would really appreciate it...... I wonder if I knew the breeder, or at least who it may be named after???)

I will _*try*_ to post some pics.... if the camera will cooperate...


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## bigjesse1922 (Oct 3, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I decided I just don't have the time/energy/space to keep any males around... I have enough seeds to grow some more and breed later..... so ALL the males are coming out as they are found


This is the right decision IMO.

Its just too muich to juggle TLD. You have so much goin on, and pollen is hard to manage on top of it all. Good choice. Not that its beyond your ability....why stress....you have good genes....just clone.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 3, 2009)

bigjesse1922 said:


> This is the right decision IMO.
> 
> Its just too muich to juggle TLD. You have so much goin on, and pollen is hard to manage on top of it all. Good choice. Not that its beyond your ability....why stress....you have good genes....just clone.


Exactly.... thank you, 

I am even only going to keep one mother of each strain, .... the other ones are going strait into flower (probably after this weekend), seeing as how the flower room is already almost set up and any clones I have to go in wouldn't be ready till November......

Christmas buds   fitting that I would be gifted one plant to harvest of each strain around Christmas.... hehe


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 3, 2009)

hehe what a wierd camera.... it saved the pics..... even the ones from earlier..... but showed older pics as display images.... shrugs 

hehe had to stop cuz it was too late to run the saw or be banging the hammer around waking the babies up .... four more solid hours into it and it will be ready for touch up and test run, 

half of those ladies currently under the 400W MH are going strait under the 1000W 

I will add in a 400W HPS special just so it doesn't mess up the rest of my flowering schedule..... Christmas Buds.....


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## slabhead (Oct 3, 2009)

Nice explanation on the sexing with the ABC's. 

Which one is this?


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## wonderblunder (Oct 3, 2009)

Looking good. I built a similar framework to that as well. Its all in my journal. We have a used construction supply store in town, some of the stuff is even knew. I bought my fans and the wood for under 20 bucks. Im about 10 bucks in on poly as well. Not to shabby. I need to get velcro and some small moulding to make it completely light proof but it does the job and contains most of the light. I like your style of growing, Can't wait to see what you have in the bag


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## wonderblunder (Oct 3, 2009)

What were the strains that got you the 2.5-3 lbs? That was definitely hydro wasn't it? I would love to see how you do it and try, Is the stadium type flowering room the way to go? I want to do what you do


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## wonderblunder (Oct 3, 2009)

scribed !!!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 3, 2009)

slabhead said:


> Nice explanation on the sexing with the ABC's.
> 
> Which one is this?


That is the Widow Cindy C...... cant you tell why I like her? (well I suppose it still could be a him )



wonderblunder said:


> What were the strains that got you the 2.5-3 lbs? That was definitely hydro wasn't it? I would love to see how you do it and try, Is the stadium type flowering room the way to go? I want to do what you do


lets see that last indoor grow was 26 Purple Kush plants SOG in Ebb & Flow using coco coir in 1 gal pots (should have stuck to soil on those), surrounded on the shelves by 18 plants in soil mixes in 5 gal pots (half Purple Kush half Sensi Star).... in a way it was like a stadium grow, because of the pot size the 5 gallons were about 4 inches higher than the plants in the table..... If I had vegged for another week or two, I may have hit the three lb mark, but as it was I think I got something like 1100 grams..... and I forgot (Im sorry) I did have fluorescent side lighting in there in the amount of 240 watts (40W 4' tube fluorescents)

I got about 3/4 oz avg per plant in the hydro table, and a little bit more than an oz avg per plant on the sides if I remember correctly (was a while ago, sorry if I am a little off on the numbers) .... its all in the journal there


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 3, 2009)

oh and one thing that you should know bout my last indoor grow..... I wasn't able to update with pics very much because I lost my internet... but if you look at the last pics I posted of the plants while they were still alive.... (just shy of week 4 in flower)....... they (the buds) Doubled in size after that....... man I wish I had gotten some pics of that......


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 3, 2009)

see Im getting some work done 

notice the drain.... gravity 

Im getting there.... tomorrow night I think it will be ready to house some plants


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 3, 2009)

ok some things are going to change from my original plans...... the DWC isn't going to start until the second run..... so there is only one drain spot for the moment...... Ima put plants in that were started from seed tomorrow just to get things moving...... one thing at a time....


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## dgk4life (Oct 3, 2009)

what does dwc stand for?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 3, 2009)

deep water culture


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## wonderblunder (Oct 3, 2009)

Thanks for your reply. Im excited to see this new room you got going. I like the drain idea. Are you gonna use Poly on the floor to get the water down the drain? Looking good. I am thinking about building a shelf around 3 sides of my flower room, and put a row of plants in 1 gallon pots on them? I think that ould maximize space without taking any light from the rest of the flowering plants. What you think?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 4, 2009)

the sides of our old pool (3 1/2' tall 12' diameter) got some holes in it and has been retired... I am going to cut a 7'x6' section out of it from the bottom and line the plant pot basin with it. But before I do that I need to finish putting up the sides on the plant pot basin, seal it, prime it, and paint it, then the pool "liner" will go in..... got a heat test running, still need to add in the fluorescent lights and do the light spread poly plastic lining around the hood like I did in my last grow, as you can see in the pics, a considerable amount of light is lost out of the top.... but here is a sneak peak of operation...... just doing a heat test like I said..... that is a water cooler under the ballast 

I think I am going to put the eight or nine extra females from seed under it until clones are ready to go in (set up as shown) and then I will take the plants from seed and stick them outside in a greenhouse where is will heated (six weeks or so from now so they will be almost done  )


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 4, 2009)

Lights been on for an hour and a half.... 69 degrees... granted its the night time.... but I could just do lights on at night to save on cooling the room, ..... might as well start some of the females on 12/12 tomorrow... and reading through the journal I ran across my schedule 

* The first set of clones will be taken 10-15 to 10-24 sometime. 30-35 cuttings total from the first session, going under the fluorescent panel. At this point I will elect to keep only (hopefully) two mothers of each strain.

- 1st set of clones will go into flower 11-5 to 11-12 sometime 

* Second set of clones will come off 11-5 to 11-15 sometime 

- Second set of clones will go into flower under a new 1000W HPS 12-12 to 12-15 sometime 

* Third set of clones will be taken 12-5 to 12-12 sometime

$ First Set of clones will be harvested 1-12 to 1-24 sometime (yeah 2010)

-Third set of clones will go into flower 1-12 to 1-24 sometime 

*Fourth set of clones will be taken 1-12 to 1-20 sometime 

$ Second Set of clones harvested 2-15 to 2 20 some time

- Fourth set of clones go into flower 2-15 to 2-20 sometime 


And so on.....

I realized while I was looking it over that I will be getting the next 1000W going around the time I would want to move the plants I want to put in right now, but wouldn't have clones to put under it for two or three weeks.... that I will be putting the first batch of clones into the room right around then as well, so I might as well move the ones I already have flowering over under the new 1000W when I put the first batch of clones in  perfect.... schedule just got an upgrade 

*So first day of 12/12 starts tomorrow  Im thinking 10 pm to 10 am on 10 am to 10 pm off will work out perfectly *


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## dgk4life (Oct 4, 2009)

nighttime thats what i do


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## wonderblunder (Oct 4, 2009)

Looking good it sounds everything is taking shape. you must spend a lot of time with your plans. I have a hard time finding time to do all this shit. I got 10 rooted clones in soil, and I just took another 10 yesterday, plus the 12 larger plants I am working with. 
Can I take clones off an Autolowering plant. It is Autoflowering Whitedwarf


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 5, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> Looking good it sounds everything is taking shape. you must spend a lot of time with your plans. I have a hard time finding time to do all this shit. I got 10 rooted clones in soil, and I just took another 10 yesterday, plus the 12 larger plants I am working with.
> Can I take clones off an Autolowering plant. It is Autoflowering Whitedwarf


No you can not take clones off an auto flower plant. sorry for the bad news


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## wonderblunder (Oct 5, 2009)

lonleysmoka said:


> No you can not take clones off an auto flower plant. sorry for the bad news


Exactly like I thought, Any tips for getting the most out of autflowering white dwarf?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 5, 2009)

I have seen people use "stretch and fill" techniques to get the most out of autoflowering strains.... I won't work with them though...... keep the light on longer


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 5, 2009)

didn't have time to get around to it...... so the plant pot basin isn't lined yet.... I will get to it 

I did separate the mothers from those going into flower.... Today marks day one 12/12, and I would say Wednesday will truly mark day 1 of flower 

got some pics 

I will point out which is which later if need be..... 

everything was watered today  bloom nutes start on Wednesday at about 1/4 strength  and another watering before veg nutes for the mothers


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## notoriousb (Oct 5, 2009)

are those square white containers 3 gal?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 5, 2009)

yes they are


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## notoriousb (Oct 5, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> yes they are


I was debating between those and the 1.5 gal white ones but ended up going with the 1.5's since I can fit 16 or so in my area. might go with the 3 gals if I dont like my results with the 1.5's. all your birds are looking nice tho  excited to see them in bloom under the thouee


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 5, 2009)

1.5 gals should work depending on how long you veg for  under a 600W right? doing an sog just cramming lollipops in there?


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## ben ladin (Oct 6, 2009)

im a begginner and i was wondering how 2 go about growing just a few plants


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 6, 2009)

start by reading the growing FAQ on this forum


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 6, 2009)

getting the plant pot basin liner in today, ...... then light seal....... then canopy poly plastic, ...... adding in another circulating fan..... temps are staying a little low, but that will change after I do light seal.... water coolers running on fan only lowest setting, ....... happy  very happy ......

doing virtually same thing with veg area....


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 6, 2009)

temps went up slightly...... 79 is where it topped out at...... the pool liners in.... the plants didn't like being moved around (they went outside in the wind) and since they are top heavy they plop fell over...... I got a temporary fix in now (the 2x4's)..... but am going to get supports like I have for the outdoor garden put in for full time supports......

the pool was doubled up and heat sealed to the drain 

Now just gotta finish light sealing the room and get the lights canopy spread finished......


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 6, 2009)

got the supports in..... whew.... they were still mad so I gave them 1/2 strength thrive alive b1 and increased the fan to its next setting up..... its going to take a couple days for them to get over this...... one of them is supporting herself..... so hopefully she will continue to support herself throughout with no problems..... they were flopped around a bit, and squashed down a bit while I got them situated.... they were bending over just above where the stalk comes out of the soil, so hopefully those stalks thicken up and this problem goes away..... hopefully they just bounce back and come back stronger and more vigorous..... that would be a sure sign of strong genetics..... 

going to keep them on 12/12 though...... and finish sealing the room from light leaks..... lights on at night isn't going to work out..... so 10 am to 10 pm the light is are on......

I am very anxious to see these go through flowering...... it will definitely help me plan on how I deal with their sisters children (clones) in the next phase...


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## notoriousb (Oct 7, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> 1.5 gals should work depending on how long you veg for  under a 600W right? doing an sog just cramming lollipops in there?


that's kinda what the plan was. something kinda along the lines of what NeL does but he does 30 half gal grow bags but he also said he averages 20-40 g's per plant so do the math  how tall do you think they could veg before getting rootbound? I was thinking I'd veg for 3 weeks


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 7, 2009)

2 or 3 weeks should be just fine 

my ladies under the 1000W HPS perked up over night


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## DoeEyed (Oct 7, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> 2 or 3 weeks should be just fine
> 
> my ladies under the 1000W HPS perked up over night


 Beautiful plants there, I don't know how you keep track of 'em all!


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## BlackRoses (Oct 7, 2009)

I rarely see perpetual systems grown with soil.. Cause many don't even dare going there, but you got balls bro!!
Really awesome job you're doing! 
+rep! 
5 stars
Also subscribed here.. can't wait to see some bud porn


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 7, 2009)

DoeEyed said:


> Beautiful plants there, I don't know how you keep track of 'em all!


Just a lotta love .... thanks 



BlackRoses said:


> I rarely see perpetual systems grown with soil.. Cause many don't even dare going there, but you got balls bro!!
> Really awesome job you're doing!
> +rep!
> 5 stars
> Also subscribed here.. can't wait to see some bud porn


it should be fun, ...... I expect first real signs of flower to be stretch over the next week, then more stretching and pistil packing the week after that...... so bud porn can start in about a month .......


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## dgk4life (Oct 7, 2009)

loaded did u steal the rarely thought of perpetual grow wit soil from me.. (cries silently) i thought we were friends.... lol just kidding.. but hey me and two girls of mine r lookin for a good vacation hit me wit some ideas


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## wonderblunder (Oct 7, 2009)

Hey there,
I couldn't believe that pic of the 30 pots or so inside that new space. I am thinking about doing 2 shelves around 3 sides of the grow room when those 3 big plants leave and then lollipop them all. Maybe 12 plants per shelf? they would be getting about 3000 footcandles which is about the same as the top of my canopy now. I dont know anything about footcandles. 
How do I go about lollipopping? Im working with clones that are rooted at about 4 inches and going into flower at about 8 inches. I need to get these in by the 15th for a good old christmas harvest.
THanks alot. Your grow is looking sweet. Im trying the perpetual soil grow thing too. Just turned on my 400w MH and put 12 plants in there for vegging.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 7, 2009)

trim the lower growth to create one large solid singe cola sometimes it will still have a few smaller buds surrounding at the base..... some people pinch off the growth, some people cut it off....... don't overwhelm the plant with injuries, don't do it all at once, but over a week or two..... then let her flower away...... doing that between now and the 15th starting like this upcoming week should work out fine if you were to want to lollipop...... Im not....... but I will trim out some of the inner growth of the plants...... if I would to do lollipops I would do 60 or so in one gallon pots vegged for two weeks as a stadium setup under a 1000 Watt......


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 7, 2009)

in fact just writing about it like that makes me really want to do that with Sensi Star!


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## warisnottheanswer (Oct 8, 2009)

im a lil late but im glad i made it! lookin good my dude!


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## wonderblunder (Oct 8, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> in fact just writing about it like that makes me really want to do that with Sensi Star!


What do you think the yield could be. I was just thinking about maximizing my flowering space for know as I want to be growing some big plants as well. I think The shelves could hold about 30 1 gallon pots, which would probably be an excellent yield.


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## wonderblunder (Oct 8, 2009)

What strain should I use for lollipops? Im thinking either Flo, WOnder WOman, or Blueberry,  I have some Mystery plants that are either bubble berry trinity or blueberry. So you would veg for 2 weeks under HPS to get a little stretch?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 8, 2009)

no I would veg for two weeks under MH for compact growth ..... until they are about 8-12 inches tall (clones right?), then throw them into flower and they will stretch on their own .... Blueberry works well......


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## wonderblunder (Oct 8, 2009)

Alright, I am on it. THanks for your help. I have 8 clone (2 Flo, 2 Wonder WOman, 4 Blueberry) that will be ready by the 15th to flower. I also have 6 more Flo, 5 more WonderWOman, 2 Hashplants, 4 blueberriess, and 1 Long Beach Lavender X purple Voodoo Clone. These are going to be done in the same manner adding 10 more every 2 weeks to the shelves, I will keep the best looking plants in the veg room, and grow them out longer before flowering.

Thanks for your help. I think with the SOG plants I can produce a quick harvest, and the big plants can be my pride and joy. Just bought more one gallon bags today


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 8, 2009)

sounds like you are on a path to very good things


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 8, 2009)

I topped the mothers...... so lower growth will be promoted, and moved them closer to the MH...... they will get first dose of nutes later tonight....... same for those in flower...... will take pics of those in flower later, .... here's buds smokin on....... and some ladies .... pretty sure that widow cindy that is still under the fluoros is a female..... will know for sure in about three days..... everything is looking good..... cuttings aren't even looking bad ......

Im about to start trimming the lowest growth off of the ladies I have started flowering..... up to about 14 inches high....... go ahead and clone them anyways (who knows maybe I will get a quick winter run in the greenhouse??) 

Gotta finish the canopy light spread in the flowering room.....

gotta pick up more FF BB..... and I will look into an alternative to FF TB...... and of course, Bio Bizz Bloom


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## wonderblunder (Oct 8, 2009)

Looking awesome. You really have quite the operation. Some day I hope I can grow like you.
What do you think I will yield off the each Blueberry and wonder woman lollipopped and flowered at 12 inches under 1k hps? Im really excited about this as I have never gotten big colas. Once again all help appreciated.


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Oct 8, 2009)

subscribed- I can't beleive I haven't already been here. I spent the last hour reading your post..it probably doesn't take that long, but I am high as fuck(damn banana kush always knocks me sideways).
Anyway..you have an awesome set-up man..I can't belive you did it so in-expensively .. I feel like a smuch now with all the money I spent on mine.. lol

I'll be here till harvest!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 8, 2009)

thanks..... I am really digging my new set up as well, .... still have to finish making it though! hehe lol.... I got so many projects its ridiculous! and I decided to just wait till the morning to feed the flowering girls (Earth Juice grow at 1/4 strength, and 1/2 strength Bio Bizz Bloom  )


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Oct 8, 2009)

damn dragon, you got bud porn all over the place!! nice!


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## wonderblunder (Oct 9, 2009)

I know how you feel with the projects, It can be a little hectic, nothing like DIY, emergency room trips, stepping on a nail.... ohhh the list goes on with these projects


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 9, 2009)

I try not to hurt myself...... and HATE western/modern medicines...... pot and coffee ...... lights are bout to go out.....


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## dgk4life (Oct 9, 2009)

yeah i dont like doctors either... all natural vitamins and workouts


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 9, 2009)

yep.... eat right, live right


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## dgk4life (Oct 9, 2009)

thats what i say.... except the booze and "drugs" lol


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 9, 2009)

I think that's "part" of living right........ moderation


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## dgk4life (Oct 9, 2009)

deffinately


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 9, 2009)

good night ladies.... lights are off......


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## wonderblunder (Oct 10, 2009)

Any idea on the yield per plant of your reccomendation? 12" clone into flower, in a 1 gallon pot? They will get about 12" tall in 1/2 gallons then up to 1 gallons for flowering


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 10, 2009)

depending on strain... 3/4 oz to an oz per plant..... if you do it right.... and of course depending on the strain,


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 10, 2009)

I think I am going to get 4-6 cuttings off of each plant in the flowering area tonight....... this wasn't included in my schedule..... but I will decide what to do with them later, ...... still haven't fed any of the girls.... so I am definitely going to do that today.... just gotta go pick up the nutes.....


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 10, 2009)

got nutes.....  ..... no pics this second, but an update 

*Flowering Room*:
added an extra 6 inch fan for circulation in upper corner.
temps high 82 degrees F
Temps low 65 degrees F
Humidity is between 35-40%
Tomato supports about to be replaced on Tuesday with something more effective

*Girls In Flower*: *All girls got fed thus: one cup of water, 1/3 gallon of nute solution Bio Bizz Bloom 1/2 strength and Earth Juice Grow 1/4 strength, and one cup of water added after*
1.Twilight E - this lady has purple hues on her calyxes already, and purple striped perliots going to the biggest sun leaves
2.Widow Cindy E - has a curved stalk at the bottom shortest of plants in flowering room, she will soon be raised slightly (when the light is raised this upcoming Wednesday or so)
3.Maui Skunk E - very nice structure, lighting green color, its right under the thermometer reader thingy......
4.Chemo Cindy E - Leggy but strong and healthy
5.Twilight A - Surprised its not an "E"? lol, beautiful Fat leaf and Plant structure, 
*old* 6.Chemo Cindy A- Male, chopped, was a beautiful plant tho for sure)
*new*6.Widow Cindy A- replaces CC, she is topped as was the other mothers, only topped plant thats flowering, leggy and lush, vigorous)

*Veg Room*:*All fed but Jacks and SilverBack, they got 1/2 gal water, everything else fed 1/2 strength Earth Juice Grow* (same method as Flowering room)
Turned circulating fans up to medium
High Temps 80 degrees F
Low temps 76 degrees F
2 more windows opened for better airflow and more Fresh air

*Mothers*:
1.BackRight Chemo Cindy C- STRUCTURE! Perfect lady MMMM, she sits right next to the cloning tray
2.FrontRight Maui Skunk D - she was the first to show sex! very resiliant, very vigorous like Chemo Cindy C
3.BackLeft Widow Cindy C - Replacing Widow Cindy A, she is a very nice plant, bent at the bottom, short squat dense growth she was Last to show sex, and is the only mother not topped
4.FrontLeft Twilight B - Boy does she Love the light..... What a light Hog! tall and lanky, shrugs, lush green huge leaves 
5.Jack Herer Left - Starting to Grow 
6.Jack Herer Right - Starting to Grow 
7.SilverBack! - Looking damn good 

*Cuttings*:
2 Purple Kush cuttings taken from PK 4 weeks into flower are still green and alive, no easily visible roots yet, but I expect by October 25th to know whats up with them for sure, hoping for at least 1 Mother of PK

Decided not to take any extra cuttings from the girls in flower tonight, but rather wait until tomorrow night or even the day after getting them...


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## wonderblunder (Oct 10, 2009)

SOunds awesome. Sounds like you have a lot going. I really want some Jack Herer, I think thats an awesome strain to smoke, how is it to grow. Any reccomandations on fast strains, high yield? Looking awesome man, thanks for all your help in my thread


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 10, 2009)

its all very fun to grow! ....... Sensi Star.... PPP..... I really want to do a PPP SOG, but sadly, I don't think the one PPP I have in flower will make it to reveg........ I can try though right, can't hurt lol...... if not I think I am going to be ordering a Butload of seeds come spring time ........ my mind is turning about this grow..... Im psyched ..... my patients are too


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## wonderblunder (Oct 11, 2009)

Hey you go any reccomaddations of some dank heavy yielding strains?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 11, 2009)

yeah.... thats what I was talking about up there ^^^^^ Sensi Star and PPP.......


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 11, 2009)

TLD guy you have so much going right now. How the hell you keep up with it all? and still come out with quality. hehe


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 11, 2009)

Im enthralled buddy


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## dgk4life (Oct 11, 2009)

perseverance pays off ...


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## wonderblunder (Oct 11, 2009)

What is this PPP you are talking about. Im gonna look into sensi star. Got my shelves built today! Pics posted. It is coming along


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 11, 2009)

purple power plant


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## wonderblunder (Oct 11, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> purple power plant


Alright what seed company?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 11, 2009)

you can google search it and pick your own.....


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## chicoles (Oct 11, 2009)

Do you locals ever trade clones? I have Oaksterdam U Purple Kush and a Srawberry Haze mother and would like to get Maui Skunk going as I have been smoking it and it is truly awesome.

Harvested my WW acouple of days ago when I heard it was going to rain.


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## wonderblunder (Oct 11, 2009)

They all say outdoor, is that still good for a SOG? I am thinking the Purple Widow(which you also reccomended for SOG) might be a good one. The purple widow is supposed to be an outdoor strain but I mistakenly didn't notice when ordering. How is that new room you just built going?


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## leftreartire (Oct 11, 2009)

when those purple crush root will you send me one. I have been wanting to try them for sometime now but I haven't broke down and bought any yet. how are they easy nice to grow? how tall or bushy do they get? I just like the look of them


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 11, 2009)

uhhhh yeah...... Im really sick right now... there is no such thing as either an indoor or outdoor strain....... some do better than others in different climates etc. based of breeding strains geographical origins...... so those that are more senitive, or higher yields indoors or out is labelled thus...

yeah locals trade...... but members of the site don't ........ sorry......

I really don't appreciate people asking me for plants or discussing any personal info on my journal... please edit your posts....... I would greatly appreciate it, we MUST respect the rules of this site


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## wonderblunder (Oct 11, 2009)

Awesome, The purple widow that turned male was beautiful. I had it LSted beautifully with excellent results, fast growth. Now that I have a confirmed female she is gonna get cloned out to SOG, and I of course will have to grow a tree of it. 
At first when I read your reply, that I may have asked you for a clone or whatever. It wasn't me when I glanced back. Thats a lowlife thing to do? I do trade with fellow patients, which is real nice, but never to anybody via mail or someone I don't know. He must have his head in a different place


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## blindmouse (Oct 12, 2009)

I just read through this whole journal, burned one halfway through, haha. This is looking awesome, I'm gonna have to keep checking back in. Looks like you've got some good stuff going on! Keep up the great work


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## wonderblunder (Oct 12, 2009)

any pics coming soon? I would love to see some pics of that new room you built. DOes it have 30 plants in there? Hope your feeling beter


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 12, 2009)

nah it has 6 plants in there (and they were all about 27 inches tall when I put them in there!)..... kind of like a test run..... I just turned off the light about fifteen minutes ago.... If I had been feeling better I probably would have snapped some pics today... hopefully I feel up to it tomorrow after dealing with the outdoor ladies in the greenhouse....


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## wonderblunder (Oct 12, 2009)

Yea, I get tired of doing all the work. I am starting to have small buds forming on my plants which is getting me excited. Its been a while since I had them. What stage are the plants in there? Id love to see some pics of your indoor grow when your feeling better. Thanks for all your help by the way


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 12, 2009)

they are just about a week into flower..... I was going to trim the bottom most growth off today..... but ended up sleeping all day instead...... I really haven't been feeling well.....


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## wonderblunder (Oct 12, 2009)

I hope you feel better soon. Its that time of year in my part of the world. Major swine flu outbreak. My clones are going good they got some loew strength veg nutes the other day. Another few inches and on the shelf they go.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 12, 2009)

sounds good.... Im always watching 

just ask dgk4life


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## wonderblunder (Oct 12, 2009)

I just checked out his dgks grow it looked good.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 12, 2009)

thought you would like his grow ........


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## wonderblunder (Oct 12, 2009)

yea I dont agree with the MG soil either. Organic is the way to go. has he posted any previous grows similar?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 12, 2009)

yeah.... "here we go again" and "round 3 as requested by loaded dragon"


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 12, 2009)

to see what threads a person has started click on their username, click on view public profile, click on statistics, click on view threads started by so and so....


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## wonderblunder (Oct 13, 2009)

ok sounds good. I have seen those but not looked in detail


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## dgk4life (Oct 13, 2009)

thought my ears were ringing last night


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## wonderblunder (Oct 13, 2009)

Awesome threads dgk


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## dgk4life (Oct 13, 2009)

thanks bro.. hey loaded hope your feeling better


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 13, 2009)

thanks bro.....

At least I don't have to wash my car 


Pouring rain here....... Hopefully I feel better as the weather gets better ..... and still won't have to wash my car


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## dgk4life (Oct 13, 2009)

hey i got a question for ya but dont want to hijack your thread wit it ill post it in mine now...


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## wonderblunder (Oct 13, 2009)

How you feeling?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 13, 2009)

just woke up again...... still really sick, time to take more med

watered all the indoor girls, they are much happier now 

Gotta raise the HPS 6 inches tomorrow, and really gotta trim the bottoms of em and make clones 

Pk cuttings are still holding their own, didn't notice any roots, but they are looking lively


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 13, 2009)

I will take pics tomorrow after I raise the lights and do the trimming...... they have started clustering nodes..... pistil packing will be delayed by about a week because of the lower growth trimming...... almost lights out time


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## PlantWhisperer (Oct 13, 2009)

a little late but i definitely subscribed to this. looks sick.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 14, 2009)

things are JUST getting going


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## Katatawnic (Oct 14, 2009)

Just getting going?  Great, then I'm only 25 pages late!


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## lavenderstar (Oct 14, 2009)

Im scribed babe


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 14, 2009)

good good ... thanks for all the trimmin


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Oct 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> good good ... thanks for all the trimmin


Hope your feeling better.. I'll stop by tomorrow and check out you pics..sounds like your perp system is working as planned..I may do something similar..


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## wonderblunder (Oct 14, 2009)

Sounds like things are going well in your world. I need to take pics today of my plants, everybody is doing well. DO you know anything about footcandles? I have a hydrofarm light meter, measures footcandles.....


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 14, 2009)

the gist of it is a foot candle is a lumen...... 

here this has a better explanation

http://www.theledlight.com/lumens.html

I recommend reading through the whole thing
it explains a little bit about lux as well

this is an easy lux calculator

http://www.unitconversion.org/illumination/foot-candles-to-lumens-per-square-meter-conversion.html

here are some additional formulas any grower may find interesting

http://www.lightsearch.com/resources/lightguides/formulas.html

And one of the most important issues coming out of all this is figuring your after the fact PAR

http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.9711/msg00022.html

Here is a great read from Sunmaster! 

http://www.sunmastergrowlamps.com/SunmLightandPlants.html


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 14, 2009)

I hermied Twilight E in the flowering room..... its coming down in a little bit..... night to day temps are fluctuating too much and it got too close to the light.... I raised the light..... pics won't be till this evening or tonight....


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## notoriousb (Oct 14, 2009)

I still want to know how you're doing this ebb and flow with soil. you told me to wait and I'm still waiting!


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## greenfirekilla420 (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm here only 26 pages late hehe.


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## wonderblunder (Oct 14, 2009)

I hope my temp fluctuations dont hermie my girls. THanks for the info. I just updated with some pics. It is coming together a little better.


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## wonderblunder (Oct 14, 2009)

any stress to some degree can cause hermies?


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## wonderblunder (Oct 14, 2009)

I have a little calculating to do but I think I am in a good spot with my light coverage. When the mover is on the opposite side from a plant Im still getting over 1000 lumens per square foot. Directly it is over 5000 lumens per square foot. I moved the light up higher so I can get a bigger footprint. about 2 feet from canopy.


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 14, 2009)

lavenderstar said:


> Im scribed babe



ahh Mrs. TLD nice to see you made it on here.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 14, 2009)

notoriousb said:


> I still want to know how you're doing this ebb and flow with soil. you told me to wait and I'm still waiting!


And your gunna have to wait until I actually do the round one of flowering.... I would post more but im sick.... sorry bro, but it is akin to what riz is doing 



wonderblunder said:


> any stress to some degree can cause hermies?


Nah, the twilight has/had a high hermie/male ratio as I was told by the person I got seeds from ...... it may have hermied anyways, but I am sure those adverse conditions were contributing factors.....

None of the other plants in there are showing signs of hermie, and there is Twilight A in there.... 



wonderblunder said:


> I have a little calculating to do but I think I am in a good spot with my light coverage. When the mover is on the opposite side from a plant Im still getting over 1000 lumens per square foot. Directly it is over 5000 lumens per square foot. I moved the light up higher so I can get a bigger footprint. about 2 feet from canopy.


Are you referring to lumens on par? How far from plant canopy depends on canopy area and penetration desired 



lonleysmoka said:


> ahh Mrs. TLD nice to see you made it on here.


yeah its about time huh! what an amazing women!


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## notoriousb (Oct 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> And your gunna have to wait until I actually do the round one of flowering.... I would post more but im sick.... sorry bro, but it is akin to what riz is doing


good thing I gotta lotta  to keep me patient


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## Sure Shot (Oct 14, 2009)

Subscribed (but I haven't read it yet)


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 14, 2009)

pics just like I said 

lets start with pics of the ladies in flower (where there was six there is now five  ) the hermie got exited  and then move on to the mothers in veg..... lol....

here we are right in the middle and almost towards the end of Week 1 flower for the ladies in flower.... I would say Saturday they will truly be at week 1 

Everything is getting watered tomorrow, so I figured that would be the better time to take the cuttings off the ladies in flower..... since I need to go pick up my clone x anyways...... the PK cuttings both have the beginnings of roots starting in their rockwool cubes, and I am hopefully going to be transplanting them this time next week, as it is I am going to give them a diluted mix 1/4 strength of thrive alive B1 to stimulate root growth over the next four or five days 

I might be adding a couple potential mothers to the veg room very soon  Sensi Star plants that have already been flowered and harvested..... to see if they will reveg into mothers

I still have a lot of work to do in both rooms, getting sick really halted my progress there.... Im hoping to be back on track with both rooms by the end of the month to be right in time to be ready for the first clone set to veg and go into flower and have all the little quirks worked out by then 

I can't wait to stream line and dial in this whole set up! the little teaser run I have going now is not quite cutting it for my thirst for growing


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Oct 15, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> pics just like I said
> 
> lets start with pics of the ladies in flower (where there was six there is now five  ) the hermie got exited  and then move on to the mothers in veg..... lol....
> 
> ...


The plants look good Dragon. I am going to start on my Veg/clone room this weekend. Hurry up so I can sponge more ideas off of you. lol


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## Katatawnic (Oct 15, 2009)

#1Raiderfan420 said:


> Hurry up so I can sponge more ideas off of you. lol


No kidding... I just got done putting an empty pot upside down in my flowering tent, for the newest in there to be on top of it and closer to the lights. Don't know why I didn't think of it myself, but once I went through Dragon's *gorgeous* photos I got this light bulb over my head all of a sudden for some reason!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 15, 2009)

electricity is $250 a month...... and the pattern on the liner is dolphins arched in an above water jump...... hehe....


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## Katatawnic (Oct 15, 2009)

SHEESH! Electricity is a lot higher at my house! Damn poorly insulated old house with slum lords!


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## wonderblunder (Oct 15, 2009)

So excited about the pics. YOu have a lot going there. I am finnally getting all dialed in. I was going to put the clones into flower today. You suggessted to wait until they are 1 foot tall. They are probably 7 inches tall and 6 inches wide. The MH crunches everthing together. I know they should stretch real quick under the HPS, but we will see


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## greenfirekilla420 (Oct 15, 2009)

Damn looking good TLD I just wish I had the space you do I'd be filling every inch with my big bushes. Anyways keep up the good work mane.


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## wonderblunder (Oct 15, 2009)

How big of bush are you talking about


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## greenfirekilla420 (Oct 15, 2009)

just like the one I have. Next time though I plan on growing out the bottom branches a little better to have it pretty equal in sizes and getting the canopy a bit more even. I am still learning so I'm not complaning, just know what to do next time.


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## wonderblunder (Oct 15, 2009)

Yea I want some big trees, in the future. I dont have the room for it unless I had just 2. Im not ready. Im hoping this SOG method works for me. I do love my big bushes


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 15, 2009)

if you flower now, wonderblunder, they would be about 2-3 ft when they are done


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## wonderblunder (Oct 15, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> if you flower now, wonderblunder, they would be about 2-3 ft when they are done


Are you talking about my little 6-7 inchers. I really would like to have them harvest by christmas. Im gonna do whatever you are thinking.

What do you think of the Panda? Light meter is getting better results with it.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 15, 2009)

I would veg them until they are a ft tall.... moving your light up should cause slightly more distance between nodes..... give them another couple days before you switch over.... yeah, you will be surprised by how much bigger they get as they flower..... How bout you switch to 12/12 on the 18th? That would put harvest right around Christmas 

I use double sided 6 ml "panda" poly plastic...... it doesn't ripple up and crinkle as quickly or easily as mylar, it insulates better, and IS EASIER TO CLEAN


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## wonderblunder (Oct 15, 2009)

I will move them into the flowering room, on the 18th. Should I lift my MH light up to increase there hieght. 
I am using neem oil(einstein oil) on my veg, can I use this in flower. Makes my leaves so shiny. DOnt want to mold the buds though


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 15, 2009)

you having pest problems?


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## wonderblunder (Oct 15, 2009)

not bad, i have it under control. I like the einstein for the leaf shine, and what not. I was gonna put those little clones into 1 gallon pots today to stimulate growth, so they get going for the 18th. I am wondering if this will just enhance root growth, and stunt vegeatation or I should just wait until the 18th for the 1 gal pots and then into the flowering room?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 15, 2009)

uhhhh

fed the ladies in the flowering room 1/4 strength EJG 1/4 BBB 1/4 strength FF TB

Fed the mothers full strength EJG

just watered the jacks and silverback, they will be getting fed after the next watering,


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## lavenderstar (Oct 16, 2009)

definitely Easier to Clean!


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## kkday (Oct 16, 2009)

Looking good TLD you save any of that hermie pollen?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 16, 2009)

I did not... the hermie got incinerated....


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## Jerry Garcia (Oct 16, 2009)

Yo TLD, I'm reading over YOUR thread!

Plants look nice...subscribed...sorry it took so long...


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Oct 16, 2009)

yeah man, don't buy into that hermie seeds are female seeds BS, hermie seeds make hermie plants

morning TLD!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 16, 2009)

Morning... thanks for visiting (and scribing)... I am having a brilliant day already  the plants are happy too  they got fed yesterday...... so unfortunately I am going to have to put off a little more the trimming and cloning, but hey its all good 

Yeah, Im just not interested in preserving easy herm genetics


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## wonderblunder (Oct 17, 2009)

SOunds like things are good in your world. If I could just stop vomiting for a minute to go tend to my girls that would be nice!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 17, 2009)

Im sorry to hear that hope you get better


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## wonderblunder (Oct 17, 2009)

Ohh I will, Im glad to hear you are better and things are good in your world. So I have a couple questions to clarify. I have 6 blueberry plants from feminized seeds. There are several different characteristics some plants have/ others don't. Their difference would be their phenotype? I want to keep track of these for cloning purposes, once I have this run under my belt. Generally would you look at the growing process and finished process to esyablish which phenotype to keeP? I may be terrible wrong about this but trying to clarify.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 17, 2009)

yes different specific characteristics are called phenotypes, and yes using ideal characteristics vs. not ideal characteristics (for example, susceptible to cold if you live where its cold)..... You should be able to pick out some characteristics in veg and some in flower...... if you are looking for specific characteristics that occur in flower, then clone them all before they flower, then flower them as you veg the clones, and pick out the ones that show the most desirable characteristics when you see something in particular that sticks out to you that you like or dislike, process of elimination..... if there is a very ideal strain with very ideal characteristics that stick out in a good way, but one or two traits you would like to be different, it may be worth it to breed those females with males that show traits that are desirable in the areas the female lacked, and hopefully displays most or all of the traits you do like 

my ladies got nothing but light today...... watering tomorrow


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## wonderblunder (Oct 18, 2009)

to breed I would isolate my male collect the pollen, and then kill, then put the female in the isolated chamber and rub her flowers with pollen? How far into pollen. I would be doing this at a friends house, or in a totally different part of the house


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## BooMeR242 (Oct 18, 2009)

TLD idk how the hell i havent been scribed to ur threads this entire time i was trippin for a while. anyways i got alot of catchin up to do with ur thread but im def scribin!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 18, 2009)

good to hear.... harvest time (for outdoor)


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## BooMeR242 (Oct 18, 2009)

i havent even checked that thread yet r u choppin or done?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 18, 2009)

check it out its in my sig. browse through pages 80-current and you'll get the gist of where things are at ....... lol..... I thought we had already chatted a couple of times in that thread.... lol, stoners


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 18, 2009)

shit! I need to move the light up again


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## BooMeR242 (Oct 18, 2009)

haha ya FML im just too busy with shit and see u all over threads so i get confused. ill catch my self commenting the wrong thread, like a hydro comment in an outdoor grow haha.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 18, 2009)

yeah... I meant START on pg 80, and browse through it real quick to get the gist of things


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## BooMeR242 (Oct 18, 2009)

haha oh my bad


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 19, 2009)

What up there TLD how is all that trimming and chopping going my guy?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 19, 2009)

not bad.... slow progress.... I take too many breaks and got tons of stuff going on that I have to do/deal with (like eating dinner? I still gotta do that!)..... I would be done with the two I chopped this evening by now (bout a 1/2 lb. between them), but I had an old friend visit this evening, then taught some one how to trim, and I just took too many smoke breaks .... I will get the two plants finished up by tomorrow evening and get some good shots of it with a good camera..... might as well take some good shots of the girls in flower and veg indoors while Im at it...... the plant I chopped (all the plants I am chopping are outdoors) a few days ago before the storm is in jars starting its cure..... I have already started smoking it and giving it away,


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## wonderblunder (Oct 19, 2009)

Awesome, at least you have some fruits of your labor. All this harvest talk between you and DGK, Boomer, and all the outdoor harvests are getting me excited. I am patient, but, can't help thinking about it. Can't wait to see some pics of your indoors ladies.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 19, 2009)

just a few hours away.... some people will argue about the Characteristic differences (ie style, platform amount of work etc.) between outdoor and indoor growing, typically leaning towards one side or the other...... I just think of it like this...... why not get the best of both worlds and just be happy for what it is?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 19, 2009)

I didn't water yesterday, I am about to do that now..... water all around.... nutes all around on Wednesday..... things are looking up, well for the most part, I will have a better update this evening...... until then, peace, love, and bong tokin hot women!


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## Mammath (Oct 19, 2009)

Hey Loaded.
I thought I was scribed to your grow mate but but obviously not.
Oh well, am now lol.
I'll have to go back and see what you've been up to.


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## dgk4life (Oct 19, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> just a few hours away.... some people will argue about the Characteristic differences (ie style, platform amount of work etc.) between outdoor and indoor growing, typically leaning towards one side or the other...... I just think of it like this...... why not get the best of both worlds and just be happy for what it is?


 cause i suk at outdoor...


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## wonderblunder (Oct 19, 2009)

Hey I am definitely doing an outdoor grow. Going to rent a house and do a potted garden. Or I could go back home for the summer and utilize my parents land? I want to try this. Greenhouses any good?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 19, 2009)

rooftop greenhouse will suite you very nicely dgk4life, you would do very well growing in one where you are at..... you just got to look at a couple angles differently, but I am sure you would do just fine outdoors with some guidance...... think about the lack of electricity bill my friend!


And Wonderblunder........ consider the angles of either situation, and go with your best feeling ..... greenhouse may or may not be helpful/useful depending on specific circumstances


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 19, 2009)

Mammath said:


> Hey Loaded.
> I thought I was scribed to your grow mate but but obviously not.
> Oh well, am now lol.
> I'll have to go back and see what you've been up to.


Well thanks for joining us.... I will have a pic update up within the next hour and a half


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## BlackRoses (Oct 19, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I will have a pic update up within the next hour and a half


 Bring it on!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 19, 2009)

in the meantime, I just finished uploading pics for my outdoor 09


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## wonderblunder (Oct 19, 2009)

cant wait for the pic update TLD!


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 19, 2009)

sorry its taken so long! had trouble getting the pics on my puter...... so I will start with the mothers....

Everything was watered.... 2 1/2 gallons between them all

and those first two pics are to my delight, the first rooted PK clone, , I put her in a 5 gal pot (2:1:.5 BBALLMIX:FFOF lightly: perlite, leeched ), she will be very happy there  The other one is only a day or two behind with roots poking through the rock wool cube 

then onto the silverback (which has spidermites, though no other plant has spidermites)

and the jack herers

and then onto the other mothers (Twilight, Maui Skunk, Chemo Cindy, and Widow Cindy, not pictured in that order).....

The pics were taken at the same time as the watering, which was a day overdue as you can see, the have perked back up by now .... might as well take cuttings tomorrow evening then ... ok I will do it like that.....  now onto the flowering girls


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Oct 19, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> sorry its taken so long! had trouble getting the pics on my puter...... so I will start with the mothers....
> 
> Everything was watered.... 2 1/2 gallons between them all
> 
> ...


The ladies look happy


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 19, 2009)

TLD those babies look good. I like the names of the ladies too. haha. I know it is down the road but when do you plan on flowering the rooted clones?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 19, 2009)

now on to the ladies in flower .... got some pistil packing action going...... 

They were watered today, a day overdue, and again right when pics were taken .... I moved the light up, and need to move it up again...... cuttings come off tomorrow.....

they are 14 days into flower today......

the light burned two of them.....

temps are doin good Rh is doin good 

I will try to make sure the next pic set is in fluorescent light only.... prolly lights off......


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 20, 2009)

What wattage is that light you have there??


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 20, 2009)

1000W Eye Hortilux Super HPS


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 20, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> 1000W Eye Hortilux Super HPS


I might of just missed it but it is it on a light mover? And if not how the heck do you have it so close to those colas???


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## Mammath (Oct 20, 2009)

Nice looking ladies there loaded. Just getting started. Good timing for me.
They're tall dames hey. Should make for some long shlong colas mate.
I like your watering schedule too, wilt cycle and all 
MJ likes definitely prefers it drier in soil, and if in soil, I always 'under water' than 'over water.'
Looking forward to seeing them progress.


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## DWR (Oct 20, 2009)

Wow your indoors now....  Great stuff m8

got to follow your indoor grow  im here m8. Sorry for not being able to visit more, will do from now on


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 20, 2009)

like I said, I need to move the light up again, two plants got burned by it, 14" away is where I would like it..... their preflower stretch has shot them straight up, I am going to have to tie them down .... This flowering cycle was a last minute decision to dink around as a test run while getting ready to fill the room with clones..... they were extra females from seed that didn't show me what I wanted to see in veg and thus got set aside compared to its sister, and are now in flower......

Good to see yah DWR....... after this quick run, I will have some decent action going in the flowering area , finally .


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## DWR (Oct 20, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> like I said, I need to move the light up again, two plants got burned by it, 14" away is where I would like it..... their preflower stretch has shot them straight up, I am going to have to tie them down .... This flowering cycle was a last minute decision to dink around as a test run while getting ready to fill the room with clones..... they were extra females from seed that didn't show me what I wanted to see in veg and thus got set aside compared to its sister, and are now in flower......
> 
> Good to see yah DWR....... after this quick run, I will have some decent action going in the flowering area , finally .



Sounds good man. Yah same here with the 400w grow... some girls that didnt go the way i wanted.... 

Cheers


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## warisnottheanswer (Oct 20, 2009)

very nice loaded!


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 21, 2009)

Oh how I am looking forward to tomorrow......


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 21, 2009)

all the plants flowering are about 4 ft tall already..... *Week 2 of flower*

I look forward to tomorrow too..... everyday


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## wonderblunder (Oct 21, 2009)

you got a PK clone? So she made it through reveg for a clone? nice man. Pics are looking good. Sounds like you are really planning the next run. IM excited to watch that one. Your light is really close to your plants. Does that make for big dense buds? You have some excellent strains on the palate. Always love your pics.


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 21, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> you got a PK clone? So she made it through reveg for a clone? nice man. Pics are looking good. Sounds like you are really planning the next run. IM excited to watch that one. Your light is really close to your plants. Does that make for big dense buds? You have some excellent strains on the palate. Always love your pics.


Oh that light being closer like that means for more light penetration that would not only make the top cola bigger but the light will hit the lower buds better to in turn growing nicer bigger bottom buds. 
Sorry TLD I thought Id give my .02


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## dgk4life (Oct 21, 2009)

were almost on the same time frame now bro.. your just two weeks ahead..it all looks good man very very nice


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## notoriousb (Oct 21, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> all the plants flowering are about 4 ft tall already..... *Week 2 of flower*
> 
> I look forward to tomorrow too..... everyday


I'm only a couple days behind you


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## wonderblunder (Oct 21, 2009)

jack herer is one of the strains I have definitely smoked, I think i would go as far and say it was in the top 3 of the best nuggets I have had.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 21, 2009)

yeah I was eyeing them earlier.... they are BEASTIES.... Im happy I have them ..... should hopefully get a hundred or so clones before the flower this next summer ..... Ima feed the plants in a little bit, I will update a little while after then


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## notoriousb (Oct 21, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> jack herer is one of the strains I have definitely smoked, I think i would go as far and say it was in the top 3 of the best nuggets I have had.


Mmm I'd have to agree, Jack Herer is pretty damn dank


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 21, 2009)

well we shall see what they can do


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## greenfirekilla420 (Oct 21, 2009)

I've been wanting to try some jack sooooo bad. Its like the 3rd strain I ever heard of and still haven't tried it to date and I've been smoking for about 5 years straight now haha. Can't wait to see them grow it will be a pleasure.


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## wonderblunder (Oct 22, 2009)

I know its nothing but I am about to hit my 10 year of habitually smoking, and I am 22. Im excited. Sounds like a party. I understand it is a regular to low yield according to breeder statements? he stuff I had had Bright red hairs, orange hairs, and white hairs. Chicago is where the stuff I had was grown and traveled from. My buddy from Chicago, said he goes through little phases where all he smokes is jack.


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 22, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> I know its nothing but I am about to hit my 10 year of habitually smoking, and I am 22. Im excited. Sounds like a party. I understand it is a regular to low yield according to breeder statements? he stuff I had had Bright red hairs, orange hairs, and white hairs. Chicago is where the stuff I had was grown and traveled from. My buddy from Chicago, said he goes through little phases where all he smokes is jack.


My guy I thought I had been smoking for a long time I too am 22 almost 23 and only have been smoking for like 7maybe 8 lol I dont remember that far back. Try some Sensi Star its good. I had some yesterday. Talked about it on my thread..... mmmm mmm good


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## greenfirekilla420 (Oct 22, 2009)

Wow we are all 22 thats pretty weird if ya ask me. I've smoke a bit longer than that but I'm talking about every day all day type thing for about 5 years now.


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## notoriousb (Oct 22, 2009)

greenfirekilla420 said:


> Wow we are all 22 thats pretty weird if ya ask me. I've smoke a bit longer than that but I'm talking about every day all day type thing for about 5 years now.


my fake id says im 22


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## wonderblunder (Oct 22, 2009)

Yea I am probably in the all day every day for about 5 years as well. Yea I have managed to not have jobs for some of these past few which you know happens, and then I have always had smoke friendly jobs. 
TLD suggested sensi star. Form what i know it looks really good


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## greenfirekilla420 (Oct 22, 2009)

I wanna try some Sensi Star it looks great.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 22, 2009)

Sesni Star is No Joke.... ESPECIALLY when grown indoors..... Jack herer you got from Chicago doesn't sound like it was done exactly right..... but we'll see when these Jacks are done cured and smoked 

been smoking 14 almost 15 years.... I started when I was 8...... 12 years everyday all day, almost 13 Actually it will be 13 years exactly smoking on the daily in two days 

Purple Kush, hands down, has eaten up everything put up next to it...... never had anything like it! But Im still open to compare to any competition..... and I am honest about my ratings all the way through and through..... For example Cinderella 99 (which I grew last year) got strait 7's accept for taste (8.5) on a scale of 1-10 10 being best


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## wonderblunder (Oct 22, 2009)

I guess I will have to try the Sensi Star. Yesterday I ate edibles and smoked all day, by the evening I was just torched. I then smoked a bowl of this strain my dispensary calls Chocalate and I was way higher than I have ever been. I am looking for that feeling in my choice of strains. Sensi Star looks good. Anybody have a seedbank preference on the sensi star?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 22, 2009)

Paradise Seeds..... thats where my pheno came from, I don't ever want to give it up, or even trade for a different pheno from the same seed company


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## wonderblunder (Oct 22, 2009)

Ok I will find it. I read DGK was pumping his plants over the schedule with one of the products he was using. I think my plants could handle more nutrients. Just picked up something called Floralicious Plus, Super Concentrated Organic Enhancer. 2 - .8 - .02. I want to start this and I would like to start upping my nutrient mix please help. I don't know how much water per pot and I want to start controlling my water and nutes more. Pot sizes are 3 gallon. I am using 1 gallon to water all 9 3 gallon pots every other day. And then feeding every 2 watering sessions the same amount. I think I need to pump my nutrients up.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 22, 2009)

I will head over there....


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 22, 2009)

I took 16 cuttings just now.... 4 from each mother, and then the packet of Clone x I was reusing ran out..... sooo, I will get more soon 

I fed all the ladies after that

full strength Earth Juice Grow (1 tblspn/gal) went to the mothers, all of them including Jack herer and Silverback

I gave the ladies in flower 1/2 strength FF TB and BBB, and would have liked to given them a full strength serving of FF BB, but I misplaced it ....... so I will have to catch them up in between now and their next feeding with their next watering....... Got to tie a couple of the ladies in flower over...... gotta trim their lower growth...... will have to wait until at the soonest, tomorrow night......


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## wonderblunder (Oct 23, 2009)

Do you like the Earth Juice Line? I have a few of their things and have nothing negative to say. What are the plans for the clones you just cut?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 25, 2009)

Earth Juice is good for some things in some situations ..... perfect for some situations..... not the strongest stuff 

the cuttings are looking good at the 48 hr mark....... going to give them some Thrive Alive B1 to stimulate that root growth here in the next two days...... humidity has gone perfectly..... so good so far.....

got spidermites on the Silverback... the Jack Here are fighting them off decently..... gotta get some stuff together to bomb the shit out of the room....... fine with me I wanted to redo a bunch of it anyways..... going to keep them at bay until next week when I can actually do something about it.... veg room will be completely different after that.... I should be able to get some pics sometime soon.... like Tues or Wed hopefully.... till then..... they get water first thing in the morning


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## wonderblunder (Oct 25, 2009)

Thrive Alive B-1.... Red or Green.... How are you applying it to the clone. I have been using green as my foliage spray and red to keep my rockwool/ rapid rooters moist.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 25, 2009)

green, with warm water in the tray (78-82 degrees), not foliage, I am using it on the cuttings to stimulate root growth and provide necessary nutrients as the cuttings will have used up what was already held and being used and there is nothing available in the rock wool, foliage spraying would just encourage veg growth more than root growth, and possible stunt my rooting time..... one more mist and no more mistings....  I posted simple cloning process in dgk4lifes thread, can't remember which one though lol.....

the cuttings will go into flower in a little more than three weeks or so, hopefully.....

the flowering room would need to be ready to accomodate that, so I am going to make sure I have that tricked out by this next week as well.... everything got watered this morning....

 hehe.... I just started the spider mite battle myself..... they all get a Cold shower while I watered...... left tons of water on the floor and soaked up some towels to increase the humidity..... daytime veg room temps are around 78 and I will turn on the window ac to bring it down to 67 (as I only got 3 of 9 infected, silverback full bore, and 2 Jack Herer which genetically resist the mites), night time temps are in the low 60s anyways...... I have to get some garlic barrier spray and some neem oit (it does work on the mites)..... won't be able to grab that up until this upcoming Tues or Weds...... I won't be doin a full full cleaning in there (including equipment) until I have those items and some new panda plastic to line the walls, replacing the old panda plastic......

there are no mites in the flowering room, and I intend to keep it that way..... those ladies in flower are about 4 to 4 1/2 ft tall right now, maxing out the space I made available (flowering room was built based on a SOG schematic)...... I can tie them off to the sides, but it appears as if their stretch is over..... lower growth about to be trimmed here momentarily..... thats it for this update.... I have a lot of catching up to do in this journal..... once outdoor harvest is done things will be a lot smoother here..... and boy I can't wait for that 

__________________


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## wonderblunder (Oct 25, 2009)

Sounds like things are going good. How many clones are going into flower in there? How tall are they gonna be? Im getting ready to put another round on the shelves.......


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 25, 2009)

16....... I want to stagger harvest it by about a week and a half......... 1/2 and 1/2 sticking 16 clones in at a time, and harvesting 30 (eliminating the two weakest/smallest) gunna be about 16-18 inches tall when they go into flower


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## wonderblunder (Oct 25, 2009)

awesome Im looking forward to it


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 26, 2009)

Very nice. Sounds good TLD check out those cuttings that I uploaded not sure which ones are which in the pics but we have 3 mendo purp and the other 3 are SS


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 27, 2009)

should take some pics to mark *3 weeks of flower today* but the quality would be severely lacking (trichomes densely cover Twilight and Chemo Cindy already  ). tying over the Maui Skunk that's in flower..... actually the mother Mauii skunk, and the mother Twilight too...... can't take another set of cuttings until I get more rooting hormone damn it! my schedule just got bumped back by a week and a half!

Everything is about to be fed..... more after that....


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 27, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> should take some pics to mark *3 weeks of flower today* but the quality would be severely lacking (trichomes densely cover Twilight and Chemo Cindy already  ). tying over the Maui Skunk that's in flower..... actually the mother Mauii skunk, and the mother Twilight too...... can't take another set of cuttings until I get more rooting hormone damn it! my schedule just got bumped back by a week and a half!
> 
> Everything is about to be fed..... more after that....


OOO I like pictures. A whole week and a half damn that sucks.....


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## wonderblunder (Oct 27, 2009)

JUst tried some clones in Thrive Alive B1 Green. No foliage spray. Used Olivias cloning gel. Half Rapid Rooters, Half rockwool. Wonder Woman and Blueberry. Looking forward to pics.


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Oct 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> 16....... I want to stagger harvest it by about a week and a half......... 1/2 and 1/2 sticking 16 clones in at a time, and harvesting 30 (eliminating the two weakest/smallest) gunna be about 16-18 inches tall when they go into flower


I admire your system. It would seem you have it down to a science now. Since you are harvesting so often are you getting or do you have an auto trimmer yet?
I was checking out the TrimReaper at my local hydro store, it will be nice to someday need it. The lady that works there said she trimmed 4 pnds in two hours in it. She also said it works perfectly and especially well for the small buds that are a pain to trim. Do you have any opinions on these fancy gadgets?


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## DST (Oct 28, 2009)

Late for my own wedding....(actually I made that one) But I am here now and sub'd TLD. Thanks for the Rep and your kind words. Also going to check in on your outdoor (thinking about doing one next year...)

Laters chief, 

peace, DST.


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## wonderblunder (Oct 28, 2009)

auto trimmer sounds nice.........


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## notoriousb (Oct 28, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> auto trimmer sounds nice.........


check this trimmer! 

[youtube]_oqUTSju9yI[/youtube]


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 28, 2009)

can't say I'm impressed...... it was an advertisement, buds weren't trimmed that well, still did hand work after running the machine..... and of course there was no decent shots of the nugs once the machine was done...... *what a way to bruise and abuse danky nuggets*..... definitely not worth the money IMO.....* imagine all those broken trichome heads*...... bet some great hash came outa that though .....

there is a whole delicate process for a reason. Its almost as if business and money has corrupted the values that go along with growing and trimming and getting it out there..... oh the changes over the last 20 years..... where is the respect and TLC for the individual buds? I trim a half pound in about two hours of solid trimming..... all my trimmers do (6-10)..... we can knock out 20 lb.s a day doing it like a manufacturing line.....


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## greenfirekilla420 (Oct 28, 2009)

I was thinking the same thing TLD. It looked like they were getting beaten up in that thing. I'm very meticulas (sp) about my buds while trimming.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 28, 2009)

meticulous  I am as well, and I DEMAND precision from my trimming friends..... they know its no hard feelings when I tell them to kick rocks at 2 a.m. and walk home cuz Im too busy trimmin cuz they touched the buds too much...... its happened before, shouldn't happen again..... and sorry Jake, yah know, it just really makes me mad! If your not prepared for tedium and stedfastness in precision and production, than don't come


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## dgk4life (Oct 28, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqP4UGfJdLs


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## notoriousb (Oct 28, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqP4UGfJdLs


 
damn, that trimmer takes it. best I've seen so far  

I feel ya though on the precision trimming. Nothing like cleaning up dank buds and really seeing the danktitude of the bud after you give it a nice manicure


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## wonderblunder (Oct 28, 2009)

I plan on taking my time, and doing some research before I get too hands on, What are optimum conditions for drying? Im thinking a wardrobe tent. THere would be several scree racks, and then some spots for hanging. Any ideas?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 28, 2009)

For Drying
Light: Dark
Temp: 72
RH: 35%
airflow: 5mph slow exhaust, slow circulation
whole branches pre trimmed hung on lines at node intersection 9-10 days, slow, even, and steady dry compliments a good cure and has a lot to do with end quality

then I sweat for two days

Then I cure (burping in jars)


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## greenfirekilla420 (Oct 28, 2009)

TLD what is the sweat step of the process. And what is your burping process also. I know everyone does it different soo....


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 28, 2009)

sweating...... buds come off drying lines, get clipped off branches (crispy on the outside, moist within  ), and piled in a card board box, lid is closed, two quarter inch holes on two ends of the box, barely any airflow, moisture builds, spreading itself out evenly in the herb, while the little bit of fresh air coming and going through the holes prevents mold/rot, it sits for two-four hours, then lid is opened for 20 minutes and buds are moved around, and the process is repeated...... it lasts 24-48hrs depending on a few things (like how moist the insides were, and the size of the buds, and the trimming quality), and while I sleep the lid sits open....... the cardboard is an important part as compared to a plastic bag or jar or paper bag regarding moisture absorption and evaporation and how well it breathes itself as a container. I use two top ramen boxes one on top of the other 

from there they go into jars that hold them, lids sealed, moisture evens out, jars opened.... for the first couple days the nugs are removed the jar breathes (as do the buds) and they are put back in 3 times a day (16hrs..... every 5 hrs or so), after that, just shake up jar before removing lid, lid sits off for 20 minutes, lid is replaced (at this point the buds are very evenly dry, but not overdry  it happens two and then one time a day)


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## wonderblunder (Oct 28, 2009)

Awesome, I will defintely try all of the above...


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 28, 2009)

when in the boxes you gotta really keep an eye on em


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 28, 2009)

ok fed them today.... checked on them a little later..... and Realized that I REALLY need to get to work finishing that flowering area...... I have been so busy elsewhere that I just kept setting it aside...... here we go.... tomorrow I am going to stick the ladies outside for a little bit, maybe long enough to get some decent pictures......... I gotta mess with the light hanging situation, finish putting up the reflective white poly plastic, retie over the Maui Skunk, install side lighting, tinker here and there..... so a good couple hours the ladies will be soaking up the sun  I still need to finish framing the second half and order the rest of the supplies! lots to do.... the flowering area should double in the next 30 days 

the veg room got 1/4 strength thrive alive b1 (green) all around, including the cuttings (just poured into the bottom of tray so it sits just under the cubes), the rest of the plants in there also got 3/4 strength Earth Juice Grow..... Another round of cuttings to come in the next 5 days.....

The flowering room got 3/4 strength FF TB, and 3/4 strength BBB, watered in. Temps are solid around 78 lights on 67 lights off, Im happy with that ..... RH has been consistantly at 40%. I am very pleased for the development of these ladies at 3 1/2 weeks in (almost)...... Hoping to get clone SOG going in there by Thanks Giving. so I will have to redo the schedule


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## wonderblunder (Oct 28, 2009)

adding a 1000w? 2 seperate rooms? sounds sweet. I am getting ready to throw up the second shelf full of clones this Sunday. Then i am going to fill those ebb and flo tables and the flowering room will be full.


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 28, 2009)

Loaded it looks like you have a ton of work to do.. ahh that never ending work. I would have to say it pays off for you in the end. Smoke was real good I still have a bowl of it left going to keep it for a special day lol. I see that ur RH is down around 40% is there any ill effects of having ur RH so low (mine is around 45%)


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 28, 2009)

your in veg im in flower .... slightly lower RH for flower is better..... less chances of mold etc.


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## lonleysmoka (Oct 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> your in veg im in flower .... slightly lower RH for flower is better..... less chances of mold etc.


Ok I over looked that it said it was in flower room.... Hey good amount of info on the sweating


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 28, 2009)

Yeah! Neverending work ....... got a shit ton right in front of me...... I plan on putting plywood around it anyways, and sealing it, making the temps a little more controllable because right now I am at the seasons mercy...... remember a few weeks ago right after I put the ladies into flower I reported that the temps were in the 80's? outside air is completely cooling my room during the day, I am going to have to deal with it by the summer, might as well deal with it sooner, but I am going to have to put that off some more, and just get done with what I can until this outdoor run is completely over and done. Maybe time soon to get some more things going on than just the two 1000W's but I got to get them both going first, and play with all the variables and figures for the rest in the meantime.....


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## dgk4life (Oct 28, 2009)

loaded SOG ?????????? WELCOME to the dark side bro....


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 28, 2009)

oh yeah.... SOG ....... last one went very well indeed 

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/179818-start-finish-sog-purple-kush.html


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## DST (Oct 29, 2009)

Interesting reading about the Sweating technique TLD (perhaps thats what Eric B and Rakim were on about in their song, "Don't sweat the technique.") lol (sorry if that musics not yer cup of tea)

I am using paper bags after hanging (just about to put a few pics up in my journal about my drying/curing) but I also line the bag with thin wrapping paper...why, beats me, but makes me feel like I am creating an extra layer that can be removed easily from the bag if required......Do you think the paper bag can be detrimental in some way, would be interested to hear your slant on that?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 29, 2009)

will have to get back to you later..... not getting to do the work I wanted on the flowering area today.... some shit came up I should have expected.... now I just gotta go Handle it.... fuck....


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## dgk4life (Oct 29, 2009)

whats the prob bob???


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## dgk4life (Oct 29, 2009)

DST said:


> Interesting reading about the Sweating technique TLD (perhaps thats what Eric B and Rakim were on about in their song, "Don't sweat the technique.") lol (sorry if that musics not yer cup of tea)
> 
> I am using paper bags after hanging (just about to put a few pics up in my journal about my drying/curing) but I also line the bag with thin wrapping paper...why, beats me, but makes me feel like I am creating an extra layer that can be removed easily from the bag if required......Do you think the paper bag can be detrimental in some way, would be interested to hear your slant on that?


 i dont have any experience wit the bag method and ill telll ya why.. too many horror stories of bud molding and shit.. all i do i hang dry for 3-4 days then place all of the bud into tupperware containers seal it up for a day.. following day re hang dry till stems are bendy almost snappable then glass jars ..


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## notoriousb (Oct 29, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> loaded SOG ?????????? WELCOME to the dark side bro....


lol is it the "dark side" because there's some legality issues with that many??


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## dgk4life (Oct 29, 2009)

no lol well idk just sayin my preferred method is sog i was welcoming him to the team


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## notoriousb (Oct 29, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> no lol well idk just sayin my preferred method is sog i was welcoming him to the team


haha oh alright. thought there was an underlying meaning to "the dark side of loaded sogs" haha 

my next run is gonna be all sogged up! cant wait


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## wonderblunder (Oct 29, 2009)

How are the plants in the current flowering room.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 29, 2009)

they are good


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## northeastern lights (Oct 29, 2009)

notoriousb said:


> haha oh alright. thought there was an underlying meaning to "the dark side of loaded sogs" haha
> 
> my next run is gonna be all sogged up! cant wait


 
Sog grows are the shit when limited for space, and even better when plants are bigger when the space is available.


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## wonderblunder (Oct 29, 2009)

I would like a big sog, sounds like a good way to pull some weight.


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## dgk4life (Oct 29, 2009)

northeastern lights said:


> Sog grows are the shit when limited for space, and even better when plants are bigger when the space is available.


 i aint limited for space ..actually got more room then most and i still do a crazyy big sog.....


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 29, 2009)

the box they are in is 5'x6' I believe


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## dgk4life (Oct 29, 2009)

yours right?? i was just reffering to mine when he said limited space is good for a sog... when really any space is best servd for a sog


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 30, 2009)

why waste light energy?


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## dgk4life (Oct 30, 2009)

not sayin u r bro.. just pointin out that n e indoor grow is best served wit a sog grow.... ya agree or no?


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 30, 2009)

SOG's are good


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## dgk4life (Oct 30, 2009)

thats all i was sayin no matter the size they r good producers..


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 30, 2009)

redoing the veg area today 

Doing work in the flowering area as well 

Pics later.... GOOD Pics 

and yeah.... good times..... gotta get a bunch of trimming done though too :/


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## wonderblunder (Oct 30, 2009)

sounds good.


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 30, 2009)

heres pics..... plant shots imidiately followed by its bud shots....


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 30, 2009)

gotta add a heater at night its starting to get too cool at night (60)........ Got some light retention done.... LOL...... more trying to keep light out a little more


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 30, 2009)

and the rest of the pics of the flowering ladies 

they were watered and fed FF big bloom today


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## c5rftw (Oct 31, 2009)

hey man,, very nice grow... always like a grower that does it both in and out... so your plants are showing signs of hear stress... curling leaves as they get close to the light, reddening stems as they get closer to the light
like seen here 







I see your using a pretty crappy reflector( no offense, we've all been there lol) but these guys just simply suck. was your the 30$ one? 








I would get an air cooled reflector that will do good for you amount of space, like sun master air cooled XL... this well give your girls much better light distribution and save your tops from being too close to that light giving temps from that 1000w bulb which we all know can be really hot(around 170 degree at the surface of the bulb) which they obviously dont like... trust me man, i am very familiar with heat stress. if you can afford to run the ducting/fan, it will keep that bulb real cool making it possible to lower your lights even closer


This would be a good replacement,, equally distributes light everywhere, the glass is key as it keeps the hot air in the reflector, not being down on you pretty laddies


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## c5rftw (Oct 31, 2009)

what are you temps at the top of your plants man? btw, some cal-mag+ from bonticare will really dense up your buds.. just incase your not already using a supplement already. your buds dont look that dense, looks light bad light distribution


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## c5rftw (Oct 31, 2009)

Econowing reflector..







just a waste of lumens... man you got such a nice setup, for real... why no upgrade and i promise you will see a big difference


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## dgk4life (Oct 31, 2009)

cant believe the negativity... if loaded thought there was a prob he would of shared it wit us..


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Oct 31, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> and the rest of the pics of the flowering ladies
> 
> they were watered and fed FF big bloom today


Nice, how tall are those dirls in the flowering?


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## Jerry Garcia (Oct 31, 2009)

Hell yeah loaded, things are looking nice this way!

This pic makes me envious of your situation...nice trees in the foreground AND background!






Keep on doing what you do...


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 31, 2009)

c5rftw said:


> hey man,, very nice grow... always like a grower that does it both in and out... so your plants are showing signs of hear stress... curling leaves as they get close to the light, reddening stems as they get closer to the light
> like seen here
> 
> 
> ...


   Hey buddy....... plants are NOT heat stressed...... actually they have gotten a little too cold (PURPLE stems). My exhaust fan pulls hot air away from the light imediately, and it does a fantastic job . They do not need botanicare Cal Mag...... I just gave them big bloom, they get tiger bloom, and EJC EJG, there is already calcium and magnesium in my water  .... That reflector is not the best.... but it works just fine . I appreciate your interest...... stick around and you will learn a lot..... *I would love it if you would READ through this thread and my others and you will learn a lot (Just please don't post any advice)*...... the leaf tips curling down, as you pointed out, is because I didn't quite let the medium in the pots dry out all the way before I watered/fed, and I have been upping the doses of nutrients faster than I normally would to "push" the plants/strains, testing the genetics of these strains to discern their properties and characteristics in reaction to certain stimuli, such as a a rapid, or aggresive flowering cycle, these are hardenned stable strains that have already exceeded my expectations



c5rftw said:


> what are you temps at the top of your plants man? btw, some cal-mag+ from bonticare will really dense up your buds.. just incase your not already using a supplement already. your buds dont look that dense, looks light bad light distribution


The temps around the top of my plants at the highest point of the day is 78 degrees . At night it is getting too cold dipping as far down as 60 degrees.



c5rftw said:


> Econowing reflector..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually..... using that reflector, I got 2 lb + harvest this last summer ..... works just fine ....... when you know how to manipulate it to get max spread and distribution out of it 

Could you explain to me then precisely the best way to get lumens on PAR to my plants?  



dgk4life said:


> cant believe the negativity... if loaded thought there was a prob he would of shared it wit us..


Yep.... I pretty much always put down whats going on ..... like Widow Cindy has yellowing leaves because she is more sensitive to ph issues than the rest ...... she likes it around 6.4 ..... the rest don't mind it going up to 6.6-6.8 like it did after I cultivated in some dolomite lime 

Like the* plants got burned by the light out of MY laziness*.... lol...... just got too close before I moved the light up.... lol.... that simple 



#1Raiderfan420 said:


> Nice, how tall are those dirls in the flowering?


the Maui skunk is the tallest one, tied over at 5' 4"  hehehehe...... the shortest one is the Widow Cindy with the bent bottom of the stem and she is 3' 10"

ChemoCindy and Twilight are my Favorites thus far 



Jerry Garcia said:


> Hell yeah loaded, things are looking nice this way!
> 
> This pic makes me envious of your situation...nice trees in the foreground AND background!
> 
> ...



I will and thanks you.... this is turning out to be quite the nice test run 

And I couldn't give up that kind of background..... my feet don't like concrete jungle  cheers and congrats on the harvest


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 31, 2009)

OK...... for those that don't read back I shall reiterate....

The plants in flower are simply seeds that I did not choose to keep on as mothers, that I chose not to breed with.... They are Extras...... As per the previously posted schedule, the flowering room wasn't going to be used for awhile, but the equipment etc. was here already not being used, I needed to put the flowering room up anyways to have it established and tested when the first REAL run is done in it starting in December..... The flowering room was designed based on an SOG schematic, which is to be used after this round...... and the plants in there now were not originally intended, or grown using techniques to: flower for sensimillia. This Test run allows for me to "push" these plants using stressers to see what they are and aren't susceptible to, it also allows for me to break in the room in such a way that I can make any desirable adjustments to it before the first REAL run is started.

Anyone that has read through my threads and picked anything up about me or my style of growing knows that: I spend practically nill cash on growing, the bare minimum. Due to my upbringing and beliefs, I re use, recycle, DIY, make use of what there is. Believe that growing pot should not be done out of selfish greed for profits, but out of compassion for the sick, love of nature, love of cannabis.

Up until now I have spent the bare minimum in cash on growing, I have recycled and re used (And I will continue to). Now I am ready to buy new equipment and expand on what has been established. its all in the title.... Perpetually growing perpetual grow


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## dgk4life (Oct 31, 2009)

man its saddening to hear loaded that u r having so many problems..  i wish u woul of broke the news to me instead of me havin to find it out through the bubble heads...lol jk but i got no probs in my part o the world... ignore the h8rs loaded


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## theloadeddragon (Oct 31, 2009)

mmmm looks good  ....... definitely better than last time..... ...... Im not having any problems, hahahaha....... Im stoked ...... next month I will have that SOG action going on


----------



## dgk4life (Oct 31, 2009)

but the bubblehead said..... ohhhhhhhhhhh thats right never mind lol


----------



## theloadeddragon (Oct 31, 2009)

got some veg room/mother shots and update..... later though


----------



## neoShogun911 (Oct 31, 2009)

c5rftw said:


> hey man,, very nice grow... always like a grower that does it both in and out... so your plants are showing signs of hear stress... curling leaves as they get close to the light, reddening stems as they get closer to the light
> like seen here
> 
> 
> ...




hhhmmmm... "hear stress" ??? the stems are purple (kinda) and the only "Burning" i saw was roght before i inhaled... GOOD SH!T by the way ...


----------



## lonleysmoka (Oct 31, 2009)

neoShogun911 said:


> hhhmmmm... "hear stress" ??? the stems are purple (kinda) and the only "Burning" i saw was roght before i inhaled... GOOD SH!T by the way ...


 Oh it is very nice...good meeting you..


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## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Hey buddy....... plants are NOT heat stressed...... actually they have gotten a little too cold (PURPLE stems). My exhaust fan pulls hot air away from the light imediately, and it does a fantastic job . They do not need botanicare Cal Mag...... I just gave them big bloom, they get tiger bloom, and EJC EJG, there is already calcium and magnesium in my water  .... That reflector is not the best.... but it works just fine . I appreciate your interest...... stick around and you will learn a lot..... *I would love it if you would READ through this thread and my others and you will learn a lot (Just please don't post any advice)*....




LOL man, i knew you were the type that no matter if i was right or not,, you still wouldn;t eXcept any adive....I love how you tell me i will learn from your grow.. but this is an insult to me.. not because i know more or less... just because your assuming things.. btw good luck with your grow man... no point for me to check back in becasue unless you want me to brown nose you with advice ,which i can tell you likee


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## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

c5rftw said:


> LOL man, i knew you were the type that no matter if i was right or not,, you still wouldn;t eXcept any adive....I love how you tell me i will learn from your grow.. but this is an insult to me.. not because i know more or less... just because your assuming things.. btw good luck with your grow man... no point for me to check back in becasue unless you want me to brown nose you with advice ,which i can tell you likee


 bye bye bro stay wit your crew on your threads aint no one need or ask for your advice.. ill say it so u aint got to loaded


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

c5rftw said:


> LOL man, i knew you were the type that no matter if i was right or not,, you still wouldn;t eXcept any adive....I love how you tell me i will learn from your grow.. but this is an insult to me.. not because i know more or less... just because your assuming things.. btw good luck with your grow man... no point for me to check back in becasue unless you want me to brown nose you with advice ,which i can tell you likee


obviously if you are wrong you have something to learn ........ obviously if you don't read the thread, you won't really know whats going on with the thread, or what its really about .... Like I said you seem like a nice guy just growin some pot, but you didn't read through the thread before you posted, or any of my other threads, and therefore knew nothing about my style or whats going on with things, I could almost really not care less if the girls in flower all died for some unknown reason overnight .... chill out and just watch buds form get chopped and trimmed over and over again if you like..... I love helping people...... makes me feel good ...... I love being social on RIU and chatting and writing....... but when I try to help them, I make sure I'm right, or say I don't know, or say nothing at all...... I admit when I realize Im wrong ....... and I sure have learned a lot from watching other peoples mistakes .......... its all about having fun growing pot and learning on the way  too bad you won't check back to read this though...... ......


----------



## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

dont cry loaded .... aint no loss


----------



## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

gunna have nightmares now......

but anyways.... got some pics..... but Im just too baked/tired/lazy? to load em up on here...... lol..... tomorrow


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## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

its heat stress that y u too tired is your hair curlin up too.. def heat probs bro... i would say sit in a dark cold room for 5 days at least and dont forget your calmag


----------



## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

ps u know whats cute.. he said he wasnt coming back but when i just went to his profile like what thirty mins after his leaving this thread for good he was reading this thread weird.. maybe he is goin to get his gang to come back...lol ok rant over as always lookin goos and when i get this place your def invited to the H W P


----------



## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

helll yeah.... gunna load bud porn in the other spot.... but my two favorite pics have to wait......


----------



## neoShogun911 (Nov 1, 2009)

... yeah bro im with the bubble head... im mad that you like brown nosing.?.?.? and how could you let that sensi star get so sticky? and how come it take so little to get stoned...??? i want to roll fatties but i cant cuz it just sticks to everything... why did you grow so well, what were you thinking??? and how come you speak the truth? especially about your own sh!t? damn you and your "if it aint broke dont fix it" attitude, your so mis-leading... im mad at you now... i dont want to talk to you ever again cuz your just too cool for me man... i cant believe you would be so cool to people... GEEEEZ!!!

i wanted a turn too    ok im done now  so where are those pics?... thats right im a junky


----------



## DST (Nov 1, 2009)

Hey Gang. Just wanted to stop by and bring some love into the thread. I love indoor grows, all the greenness bunched together in a cozy little room. But you know what, the site of MJ growing outside just brings a warm glow, almost like a 400watter burning in my heart......aaaaaahhhhhhh, just beautiful. TLD, I am deffo gonna have something outside next year. You are one lucky SOB for still having sun....ah well, that's what we Northern Europeans get. How long does the weather stay nice for where you are at?

Check out my new journal TLD in my sig, your thoughts and comments/advise always welcome. Think you'll like my first paragraph.....I am also a budget grower (it's more fun that way - although next week I will be splashing out on the lights I talked about) 
 DST

p.s: I use the same reflector - are you sure you are not Scottish? the English always say we are really tight with cash Whatever, to me you are an honourary Scot!!! Save dem pennies/cents bro.


----------



## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

I will definitely check it out...... after I load more pics, ...... I humbly appreciate the compliments...... and genuinely agree .... little Irish way back there......


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> but the bubblehead said..... ohhhhhhhhhhh thats right never mind lol


OMG, thats like so funny man. what wrong with people like you. Making fun of people that are trying to help


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> cant believe the negativity... if loaded thought there was a prob he would of shared it wit us..


because he knows exactly how to grow perfectly because he is a god right???


and you know what dgk4life... how in anyway was what i said negative in the least way??? Since when are suggestion/comments negative thinking... its actually positive thinking in my case because i am simply trying to help...


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> man its saddening to hear loaded that u r having so many problems..  i wish u woul of broke the news to me instead of me havin to find it out through the bubble heads...lol jk but i got no probs in my part o the world... ignore the h8rs loaded



SO I AM A HATER NOW LOL... lol again for your stupidity... i think is you 
kiss-ass

not saying the loadedragon has a gun here, he simply just doesn't one to get you to kiss his ass..


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> ...... the leaf tips curling down, as you pointed out, is because I didn't quite let the medium in the pots dry out all the way before I watered/fed, and I have been upping the doses of nutrients faster than I normally would to "push" the plants/strains, testing the genetics of these strains to discern their properties and characteristics in reaction to certain stimuli, such as a a rapid, or aggresive flowering cycle, these are hardenned stable strains that have already exceeded my expectations..


so your saying you messed up a little here... 





> The temps around the top of my plants at the highest point of the day is 78 degrees . At night it is getting too cold dipping as far down as 60 degrees.


 so you have probe that is placed right on top of the plant?


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

> Actually..... using that reflector, I got 2 lb + harvest this last summer ..... works just fine ....... when you know how to manipulate it to get max spread and distribution out of it
> 
> Could you explain to me then precisely the best way to get lumens on PAR to my plants?


that is awesome man 2 pounds... big probs


a better reflector provenely distributes better. You cant argue with that. 







Look, if it works fine for you then stick with what you got... all i was saying is that I know it couldn't hurt and would be a good investment


just and example: 
The Adjust-A-Wings original design combines cutting edge science with biological beauty and simplicity to create a reflector system of unparalleled performance and versatility. The Adjust-A-Wings can be adjusted to wide settings and positioned incredibly close to plants for *maximum light output and coverage*. The wings may also be adjusted to more narrow settings and placed further from the plants. The adjustable nature and *even spread of the light foot print gives growers the unique ability to create seasonal conditions indoors and efficiently trigger natural hormone cycles for faster plant growth, better health & maturity and yield increase*


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> obviously if you are wrong you have something to learn ........ obviously if you don't read the thread, you won't really know whats going on with the thread, or what its really about .... Like I said you seem like a nice guy just growin some pot, but you didn't read through the thread before you posted, or any of my other threads, and therefore knew nothing about my style or whats going on with things, I could almost really not care less if the girls in flower all died for some unknown reason overnight .... chill out and just watch buds form get chopped and trimmed over and over again if you like..... I love helping people...... makes me feel good ...... I love being social on RIU and chatting and writing....... but when I try to help them, I make sure I'm right, or say I don't know, or say nothing at all...... I admit when I realize Im wrong ....... and I sure have learned a lot from watching other peoples mistakes .......... its all about having fun growing pot and learning on the way  too bad you won't check back to read this though...... ......





you know your right, I missed one or two post so i cant talk about anything on this thread... man i forgot that you had to do that... my bad loadedragon...

Next I will read the whole thread once and then go back and read it again so that, ummm...... ummmm.. oh so i can tell when i am going to be made fun of for trying to help... 


Also i forgot that since you have more post and higher VBexperience that you automatically know more than someone with less VB experience...


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

Okay guys, start pickin on me again... cause all this is a competition to see who knows more right? lol


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

btw, here is what i dont need a 1000w light to do after 8 days flowering... this is a soil grow too... i dont wanna offend you by putting a pic of my bubbleponics HEadies up


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> ps u know whats cute.. he said he wasnt coming back but when i just went to his profile like what thirty mins after his leaving this thread for good he was reading this thread weird.. maybe he is goin to get his gang to come back...lol ok rant over as always lookin goos and when i get this place your def invited to the H W P



so your following me around... thats sad. go jack off or something instead of following me around... stalker



dgk4life said:


> but the bubblehead said..... ohhhhhhhhhhh thats right never mind lol



what were you saying about bubbleheads??? here is my 3 ft. 1.5 month old one....


----------



## DST (Nov 1, 2009)

Hey guys, a lot more smoking needs to be done here. Why can't we all get A

I am not condoning trying to extract the pi$$ from someone, but then there's also something to be said for etiquette. Everyone appreciates help (I know I certainly do And you know what, it's not always forthcoming as well, I have asked questions in my journal and had zip back )But then that's just the way a forum works, timeframes etc, etc. Posting and nailing someone on a lot of points, without showing a great deal of positive vibes is perhaps a red rag to a bull, but that's just my opinion. I try (I really do) to post in a careful way in peeps journals (it's their baby after all.) And I am sure I have seen most of the people in this thread posting good comments in my journal, but sometimes we forget we are stoned (sometimes) and that like speaking on a telephone, instead of speaking to someone face to face, messages can be misconstrued and taken in the wrong, tone, pitch, etc, which are also extremely difficult elements to bring into writing as well.

Here's another opinion of mine (oh I am full of it today) I can see the positives of purchasing better rated equipment, even though the cost can be higher in monetary terms. However I have seen this debate on RIU (we don't argue on RIU, we debate) and I think there are points to be taken into account that are often forgotten. Aside from the Marketing information you have posted (which is all it is - it's not scientific) if you have the knowledge that you are using something that you have saved money off by using old materials, there is a Utility gained from this, knowing you have used something and gained more than the best from it. 

The same can be said for building your own equipment out of old parts. People say the time spent could be used on something else (known as Opportunity Cost), however, they forget the Utility gained from doing the building and using old un-used parts that might have just been thrown away. (sorry, meant to say before, that Utility is satisfaction, pleasure, joy, etc - all the good things humans feel in life.)

So I think what I am trying to say, because I am stoned now. Is that everyone is learning constantly, and everyone is trying help (or should be), we are just sensitive creatures and as such, we need to treat each other in this way (especially in the written world). But again, that's just another opinion of mine. So here's to getting back to growing and smokin, instead of fussin.

Right, I am out of here, things to do in the real world. Later's, and seriously, mucho To everyone! DST

Oh, and just a small edit, nice looking girls C5.


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## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

I know, this site is all about having a good time. Smoke up brothers!!!! except for you dgk4life, how dare you talk about the bubbleheads like that...


----------



## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

FUCK THE BUBBLE HEADS (that r like u)!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO AND ESPECIALLY U (ppl join gangs cause they r weak .. anyone involved wit a internet gang is just pathetic) and i wont smoke up cause i dont smoke ..lol now once again bye bye


----------



## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

ohh wow a 3ft plant at 1.5 months man im impressed....  stop thread jackin ..thought u werent comin back.. so now we know u give bad advice and are a liar..


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## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> FUCK THE BUBBLE HEADS (that r like u)!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO AND ESPECIALLY U (ppl join gangs cause they r weak .. anyone involved wit a internet gang is just pathetic) and i wont smoke up cause i dont smoke ..lol now once again bye bye



You know nothing of peace and love my friend... you have much hatred in your heart and I pity you


----------



## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

lol ok buddy just go pitty somewhere else thanks ...shit say a prayer for me soul too...


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Nov 1, 2009)

Damn TLD! alot has happened in this thread since I last logged on,,,
WOW......


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Nov 1, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> its heat stress that y u too tired is your hair curlin up too.. def heat probs bro... i would say sit in a dark cold room for 5 days at least and dont forget your calmag


 you had me rolling on the floor laughing my ass off!!hahahahaha


----------



## greenfirekilla420 (Nov 1, 2009)

Dude will you PLEASE quit spamming the thread with your millions of responses trying to start an internet fight. If he wants to buy a new reflector then he will. He doesn't need someone holding his hand telling him what to do. And neither do we, most of us here just want to see big fat nugs from TLD. Go spam somewhere else, your three pages of nonsense took 10 minutes to sift through to find NOTHING.


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## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

okay get back to your circle jerk... peace newbs


----------



## Dr. Greenhorn (Nov 1, 2009)

peace knucklehead,,,,I mean bubblehead


----------



## greenfirekilla420 (Nov 1, 2009)

Newb hahaha thats funny.


----------



## DST (Nov 1, 2009)

Now now children, play nicely Man, I smoked a joint today with the hash I made and I have just woken up on the couch .....Not to be used while operating heavy machinery....I'm off to take out the tooth picks that are holding my eyelids open. Smokes to all, DST


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## greenfirekilla420 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hahaha I bet that hash kick your arse hahaha. I got some finger hash on my trimming scissors I'm gonna scrap it off when I go to chop my lady down. The shit should be nice a dry by now.


----------



## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

c5rftw said:


> so your saying you messed up a little here...
> 
> 
> 
> so you have probe that is placed right on top of the plant?


Nope...... can't mess up with "throw away" plants ....... I LET these things happen to them...... saw it coming, let it happen, will deal with things as they come..... am "pushing" the strains remember?

Yes, there is a probe just slightly closer to the bulb than the canopy ....... and the unit itself is farther away and tells me both the temp and RH in both locations 

You definitely seem like a cool dude.... sorry you feel you have been so attacked... lets end the drama here, and just choose to be happy  .... and yeah..... we probably would be friends in real life were we to know each other..... so its all good..... 



c5rftw said:


> that is awesome man 2 pounds... big probs
> 
> 
> a better reflector provenely distributes better. You cant argue with that.
> ...


There are some bad ass reflectors out there for sure and you are abolutely right about the quality making a difference.... however I suggest you do the math yourself and come up with your own conclusion regarding equipment as advertising is designed to suck you in, regardless of what science and experience says........ but if you read through my threads you will realize that I am a broke ass cheap skate that gives away pot..... that I try to be resourceful and witty and make my own stuff...... and re use whatever I can...... and in regards to that..... I know I have done well in maximizing the potential of the reflector I have...... the exhaust fan I have........ etc. etc.



c5rftw said:


> you know your right, I missed one or two post so i cant talk about anything on this thread... man i forgot that you had to do that... my bad loadedragon...
> 
> Next I will read the whole thread once and then go back and read it again so that, ummm...... ummmm.. oh so i can tell when i am going to be made fun of for trying to help...
> 
> ...


I think more posts and VB experience has little to do with it, and personal familiarity and demonstrated experience has more to do with it .......

You absolutely should read through a whole thread, or most of it, to grasp the details of whats going on in a grow before you post any advice..... otherwise your advice is baseless and could very well be completely wrong and misguiding.... and rather than helping you are hurting..... 

You are right though..... I been here on RIU doing my thing reading, posting, watching, learning, co-mingling etc. etc. And in real life I have just been growing growing growing..... building experience and practiced knowledge for years and years......

So I am going to tell you the same thing as I told FDD.....

You got some knowledge, you got some real advice, you got something to teach me....... tell me, show me, learn me, point me....... 

but I will look into it, I will weigh it, and as neoshogun911 or anyone that knows me in real life can tell you, I think about it from at the very least 3 points of view 3 separate times (so 9 instances of thought and exploration for every bit of info you offer, at least).... and I compare and I dig...... and I make up my own damn mind..... and may not agree..... but I may.... and I may be wrong, or right, or no where in between 



DST said:


> Hey guys, a lot more smoking needs to be done here. Why can't we all get A
> 
> I am not condoning trying to extract the pi$$ from someone, but then there's also something to be said for etiquette. Everyone appreciates help (I know I certainly do And you know what, it's not always forthcoming as well, I have asked questions in my journal and had zip back )But then that's just the way a forum works, timeframes etc, etc. Posting and nailing someone on a lot of points, without showing a great deal of positive vibes is perhaps a red rag to a bull, but that's just my opinion. I try (I really do) to post in a careful way in peeps journals (it's their baby after all.) And I am sure I have seen most of the people in this thread posting good comments in my journal, but sometimes we forget we are stoned (sometimes) and that like speaking on a telephone, instead of speaking to someone face to face, messages can be misconstrued and taken in the wrong, tone, pitch, etc, which are also extremely difficult elements to bring into writing as well.
> 
> ...


You Fucking Rock DST.... you have garnered so much respect in my from this post that I want to hug you and smoke with you and bask in this warm days breeze baking and relaxing.... good times and good vibes bro..... + rep when I can for sure!



greenfirekilla420 said:


> Dude will you PLEASE quit spamming the thread with your millions of responses trying to start an internet fight. If he wants to buy a new reflector then he will. He doesn't need someone holding his hand telling him what to do. And neither do we, most of us here just want to see big fat nugs from TLD. Go spam somewhere else, your three pages of nonsense took 10 minutes to sift through to find NOTHING.


Thrings brings up the issue...... My very first post in this thread/journal welcomes advice and comments.... so long as it is kept positive..... I am going to request a mod or administrator come through and delete certain negative, offensive, repugnant posts so they will be removed from the journal..... please don't argue on the thread taking up 5 pages that eventually I will have to sift through to find my updates and reminders (to myself too) regarding my grow.... thats what pm's are for 



Dr. Greenhorn said:


> peace knucklehead,,,,I mean bubblehead


That is the word....

PEACE........

and another....

PRACTICE

so....

Practice Peace here

Stop the drama.... share a bowl...... c5rftw included..... we are all a family here on RIU...... and just like in real life, whether you like it or not...... Chill and jah Love 



DST said:


> Now now children, play nicely Man, I smoked a joint today with the hash I made and I have just woken up on the couch .....Not to be used while operating heavy machinery....I'm off to take out the tooth picks that are holding my eyelids open. Smokes to all, DST


I Hate scissor hash...... finger hash.... I insist there be as little as possible ......



greenfirekilla420 said:


> Hahaha I bet that hash kick your arse hahaha. I got some finger hash on my trimming scissors I'm gonna scrap it off when I go to chop my lady down. The shit should be nice a dry by now.


But I bet it definitely kicks arse hehehe


----------



## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

is it safe to continue growing now???


----------



## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

Eminem 

And even though the
battle was won, I feel like we lost it
I spent
so much energy on it, honestly Iâ&#8364;&#8482;m
exhausted


----------



## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

its probally heat stress bro..


----------



## neoShogun911 (Nov 1, 2009)

... so what time did you turn off the light in the flowering room last night?


----------



## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

just before midnight...... Im not worried about it though ....... I am of the opinion people stress too much when it comes to their plants sometimes


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 1, 2009)

Just got done catching up... got spammed up for a little..... Im glad you said something about pushing strains to figure out what they can handle. At some point once I get everything figured I want to try increasing my nutrients to find out how much they can handle.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

its worth it to dial in strain by strain..... that is the true secret to maximizing yields and quality..... know your plants, love the mother, know her well, and like mother like daughter, they will love the father


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## neoShogun911 (Nov 1, 2009)

so poetic LTD you been thinking about that much?

but realy i didnt know the sensi star had red hairs... until like yesterday...


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

LOL........ must have been baked not to notice ..... I mean.... you spent like 6 hrs trimmin it..... LOL


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

And stop callin me LTD


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## neoShogun911 (Nov 1, 2009)

sorry my lysdexia


----------



## DST (Nov 1, 2009)

I own a "Ltd" company in the UK, I should start one called TLD LTD, that would really mess with our secretaries head


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

TLD Inc.


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## wonderblunder (Nov 1, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> its worth it to dial in strain by strain..... that is the true secret to maximizing yields and quality..... know your plants, love the mother, know her well, and like mother like daughter, they will love the father


This and those last few posts on subject really helped me see the light....Thank you


----------



## theloadeddragon (Nov 1, 2009)

the closer you get.... the light only gets brighter...... once you find your nitch..... stay for awhile and explore the beautiful perspective of your exposure before moving on..... once you capture the essence of the moment carry it forever with you..... the light is but the center of a spiral of a fractal floating in front of us, constantly moving so our views are shifted, and those moments where we see into the center, and clearly understand the reality of the frame, are the moments of providence we hold dear..... carrying and stacking the essence of each moment, one upon the other, we build our lives, we grow, our plants grow, and while we are stoned we can hold onto those frames that second longer, we can see around the spirals to understand that it is merely our perceptions themselves that create the realization of the presence of life, we can see the foolishness of our mere attempt to obtain the truth in our understanding of our perceptions, and we can let go long enough to truly BE part of that spiral, only to come down once again, viewing from the inside, rather than the outside, wondering about the light, lost in our conceptual civilizations.....


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 1, 2009)

Im gonna throw some questions in my thread that I would love some help?


----------



## dgk4life (Nov 1, 2009)

lmao i got neg repped by a bubble head for post number 442... awww guess i popped their bubble..wonder who our friend ran to...


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 1, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> its probally heat stress bro..


lol.

btw, can i still watch this thread since im a bubblehead or do you guys discriminate against minorities? lol


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 1, 2009)

DO NOT ANSWER C5RFT! Not trying to encourage this nonsense or anything but what the hell is a bubble head.


----------



## neoShogun911 (Nov 2, 2009)

... bubble ponics... yeah i would like to hear more about TLD on TLD's post...


----------



## moash (Nov 2, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> lmao i got neg repped by a bubble head for post number 442... awww guess i popped their bubble..wonder who our friend ran to...


 u also got a thread 
now thats dedication
Hatred Towards Bubbleheads 
__________________


----------



## purpdaddy (Nov 2, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> DO NOT ANSWER C5RFT! Not trying to encourage this nonsense or anything but what the hell is a bubble head.


 BubbleHeads are a lil group dedicated to helping the newb learn hydroponics.Using feedertubes and submersible pump


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 2, 2009)

moash said:


> u also got a thread
> now thats dedication
> Hatred Towards Bubbleheads
> __________________




and so will anyone that displays hatred towards another group of people for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON!!!!!!!


----------



## c5rftw (Nov 2, 2009)

neoShogun911 said:


> ... bubble ponics... yeah i would like to hear more about TLD on TLD's post...


TLD will post when he post...


----------



## dgk4life (Nov 2, 2009)

i take my bow... a thread just for me from a pathetic ass newb.. wow anyway if you guys check out page three of his thread roseman turns his back on him tells him he was wrong and walks off the thread.. man guess u were wrong huh when the leader of your group spanks ya it must b true..ha loaded what up my dude how r those babies lookin


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## moash (Nov 2, 2009)

c5rftw said:


> and so will anyone that displays hatred towards another group of people for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON!!!!!!!


 not anyone....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

whoa every time I go to sleep...... lol......


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## Lt Shiny Sides (Nov 2, 2009)

TLD your grow is looking awesome. How long till harvest?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

month a week and a few extra days


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## dgk4life (Nov 2, 2009)

sorry loaded i hate the fact that my thread is full of this shit and am really tryin not to add into yours ...


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

hehe.... guess I just need to update more to make it more interesting


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## dgk4life (Nov 2, 2009)

lol wish we could ban ppl from our own threads like mods can do to for the site


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## True Stoner (Nov 2, 2009)

you guys need to grow up and grow your shit either way works for you!!


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## c5rftw (Nov 2, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> lol wish we could ban ppl from our own threads like mods can do to for the site


like who? lol.. im ready for some more pics man....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

update on the way.....


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## c5rftw (Nov 2, 2009)

btw, dgk4life... I got NEG REPPED... you gotta be so happy... good job man.....look lets say, YOU WON. Can we please stop this now so we can watch the loaded dragons thread in peace


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## dgk4life (Nov 2, 2009)

c5rftw said:


> btw, dgk4life... I got NEG REPPED... you gotta be so happy... good job man.....look lets say, YOU WON. Can we please stop this now so we can watch the loaded dragons thread in peace


 i didnt ask ne one to neg rep u and i cant neg rep so look elsewhere ..


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## c5rftw (Nov 2, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> i didnt ask ne one to neg rep u and i cant neg rep so look elsewhere ..





uh duh.......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

The ladies in flower just got fed 3/4 strength FF TB, 1/2 strength BBB......... when I did the pics of them outside the other day they got Big Bloom with their watering...... just water next, then I will incorporate Big Bloom in with the feedings on its own schedule.....

*Here We Come Week 4*

I couldn't be happier with the development, considering I am really trying to keep them stressed..... the largest nug is as big as my thumb wide and long as my middle finger 

The Twilight and Chemo Cindy are pulling a tie for first each having calyxes the size of coffee beans 

Maui Skunk following closely....... and the FIM'ed Widow Cindy looks WAY better than the not FIM'ed curved stemmed sister, though they are different phenotypes 

these pics are from a couple days ago.... flowering started October 5th....... so just shy of 4 weeks  

*2 weeks away from starting phase two of this part of the perpetually growing perpetual grow*  Im excited..... I will post a list of additions soon  Along with some info about how its all gunna go down


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## c5rftw (Nov 2, 2009)

(never giving advice again) wow nice pics man... looking great. excellent trichrome production


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## lonleysmoka (Nov 2, 2009)




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## wonderblunder (Nov 2, 2009)

Nice update.... looks very nice. It makes me a a little sad because I flowered before you, and yours are much prettier and mature. I am learning.......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

yeah dude..... I done this a bunch of times...... and know the strains somewhat well already.... got the strains from growers of the strains, they had a set of tips for the strains, and all that really does make a difference..... you are doing very well, just need to get some more light in there , that helps speed up development ..... it all comes in due time


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## Mammath (Nov 2, 2009)

Nice macro shots Loaded.
I love seeing trichomes and stigma that close, beautiful.
Are these those tall dames we're looking at?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

yep ...... 4 days shy of 30 days into flower, they are 9 weeks old total ...... they were throw away plants, extras.... Im Stoked, might get a 3/4 lb total .... maybe more  but what I am even more stoked about Im about to post about


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

the ladies mothers .... everything but cuttings got watered yesterday.......

the 2 Purple Kush cuttings have rooted, are now clones, they were flowering, they have successfully started new vegetative growth  they will give their first batch of clones around Christmas  

Recent round of 16 (4 of each CC, WC, Twilight, MS) cuttings have their white nubs, cubes have dried out well, humidity is starting to drop..... I am letting the humidity dome/tray dry out two more days, then water, then a day or two later I will transplant them as they will have decent root masses coming out of the rock wool cubes by then 

Spider mites are all but completely gone..... one more battle (last shower and garlic spray, complete veg room wipe down and reconstruction  ) and they should be gone gone 

Jack Herers and the Silverback will throw out their first set of clones in two weeks..... 

I am going to take one more set of 16 cuttings from the same mothers as last time to have the two week staggered harvest going under a 1000W HPS

so the first full SOG in the flowering room will be the same four strains I am running in there now, they will just be in 6 rowes of 5 (the extra two rowes will be mixed together but labelled  )

The second set going under the 1000W set up I am about to set up will be all Jack Herer and Silverback........

The four mothers from seed that I have that are getting so big in the veg room will be flowering outdoors starting the beginning of March sometime..... They will be about six and a half feet tall when they go out, and very top heavy, still bushy though...... but I am interested to see what happens...... I will choose my favorite indoor strains of the four to keep clones of as mothers to keep the perpetual flowering of the desired strains  

I have another 400W MH I am going to set up in the flowering room when I deconstruct and reconstruct it...... that will be used with the fluorescent panel to veg plants that will go into the flowering rooms.... the fluorescent panel will be raised to 4 feet from ground level, to accomodate the height the ladies will need to go into flower..... so you will see some definite improvements in there over the next week 

more updates soon


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## greenfirekilla420 (Nov 2, 2009)

Wow everything is looking great TLD. Your clones look like mine did so I must have done something right haha.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

all the pics I just posted are two days old..... thought that I might add that......


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## greenfirekilla420 (Nov 2, 2009)

Still look good though


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

lol..... yeah.... Im just stoked on whats right in front of me....... how things are about to get more interesting


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## greenfirekilla420 (Nov 2, 2009)

I feel ya, I know the feeling as well. Honestly my favorite part of the whole grow phase is the stretch when you first put them in 12/12. Its the most you see the plant grow the whole cycle and it really excites me everytime. I also like visualizing buds on the stems during the stretch its a nice sight to look at after a hard day of work.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

I hope to get some good bud shots of these ladies in flower in about ten days .... lots of work to do


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

Im about to get:

Lumatek 1000W conversion dimable ballast
Xtra Sun 42" Parabolic HV reflector
Lumatek 400W conversion ballast
Xtra Sun Mondo reflector with flang and lens kit
Hortilux 400W MH horizontal bulb
Hortilux 1000W HPS bulb
I already got 100'x10' white/black poly plastic
zipper for poly plastic to make a door
2 timers for fans
new vortex 6" exhaust fan
Hydroton
30 2 gallon tapered 12" wide at top-6" wide at bottom 6 1/2" tall that are netted (these will be used by placing soil in them and then putting them in the larger 5 gallon pots that will be full of hydroton thus allowing me to use for soil/hydro) 
Pool Liner
Lumber 
small heater


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## dgk4life (Nov 2, 2009)

way to go bro spendin some loot on your indoor... im proud(wipes tear from eye) although i would rec quantum dimmable cause i use it and can rec it wit certainty.. weird huh bein able to give advice and know what im talkin about ..


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 2, 2009)

lol.... yeah right.... lol.... they definitely seem to be doing the job perfectly well for you ....... but that is not available through the company I am going through, and I am looking at getting a sizable discount


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## dgk4life (Nov 2, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> lol.... yeah right.... lol.... they definitely seem to be doing the job perfectly well for you ....... but that is not available through the company I am going through, and I am looking at getting a sizable discount


 meet me in other spot ...


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## DST (Nov 3, 2009)

Nice to be busy TLD. Great update and pics....lots of exciting work for you ahead

DST


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 3, 2009)

always got a bunch of things happening all at once....... potty training, just took the bottle away, she is talking and growing oh so fast....... and my other one can Read and write and loves to play outdoors, beautiful spirits both of them


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## Mammath (Nov 3, 2009)

Man... didn't know you had some littlins mate.
Children are the beginning of the life.
It's so good to see it unfold in them and be in control over their early years. 
Difficult yes... but so much more satisfying.
All the best for ya and ya kids


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## Jerry Garcia (Nov 3, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> always got a bunch of things happening all at once....... potty training, just took the bottle away, she is talking and growing oh so fast....... and my other one can Read and write and loves to play outdoors, beautiful spirits both of them


Awww...littleloadeddragons...


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## DST (Nov 3, 2009)

I thought I saw a very small pair of legs pearing through one of your windows in a previous pic

DST


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## lonleysmoka (Nov 3, 2009)

Loaded if your older daughter looks anything like ur little one then she is gorgeous too....oh those eyes are beautiful. Just try to keep up with the little.....I am excited for the flowering room to go into full effect!


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 3, 2009)

me too.... are you SuperStars???


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## wonderblunder (Nov 3, 2009)

I happen to be in the market for a baby......... anyone.......????


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## dgk4life (Nov 3, 2009)

i happen to know where i can get a buy one get one deal..


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## wonderblunder (Nov 3, 2009)

How does the quantity over quality work out????


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## raiderman (Nov 3, 2009)

ns lookin plants loaded. yu like to veg yures a bit more than i do ,i'm sure yu'll get more weed, seeing yur perpetual will work out. gotta love those 1000s.rdr.


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## raiderman (Nov 3, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> I happen to be in the market for a baby......... anyone.......????


 a baby wat?,lol.


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## wonderblunder (Nov 3, 2009)

Hey TLD, what would be the optimum size for a flower room with 1k HPS(no mover), and 2 400w Fixtures. How would you position the lights.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

1 1000W and 2 400W all HPS?


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## wonderblunder (Nov 4, 2009)

all HPS, I think that will be enough for now. Not digging 1k on a mover, we will see how the yield goes.......


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## wonderblunder (Nov 4, 2009)

raiderman said:


> a baby wat?,lol.


If you can beat DGK's buy one get one deal let me know........


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

1000W in the middle of a rectangle area, both 400W's at apposing Diagnols of the long side of the rectangle, not hanging completely flat horizontal, but the hoods tilted in towards the center for max spread, provided you have reflective lining of course, without the lining, or white reflective surface, than 1000W in the middle of two 400W, one 400W on each apposing Side of the long side of the rectangle growing area... make sense?


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## wonderblunder (Nov 4, 2009)

Yup, I can handle that. For now, I have a question. I lifed my 1k hps and temporarily put it stationary, and the light coverage was way better all the time than it was on the mover. SHould I leave it stationary?
I am really thinking 1 more 1k right now because I have the money, electricity is an issue. I dont know if My house has places to plug into. And its an condo type deal. Any ideas. my wife is being a nag about this though! ha, cant live with them, cant live withoutem.


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## dgk4life (Nov 4, 2009)

i would leave it stationary and if u can pull it off always add more light the more the better


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## wonderblunder (Nov 4, 2009)

Im going to put it stationary right now. Thanks. I may start with 400w fixtures, we will see...


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

I would stick with the two 400Ws as apposed to adding a 1000W for what you have going on...... is this all on one circuit? Do you have access to the circuit box? do you know what amps the circuit is running on?


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## wonderblunder (Nov 4, 2009)

Hey I answered this in my thread and have a few more questions.......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

I am thinking about ditching the Widow Cindy....... depends on how this first set of clones flower

got roots sticking out from a few of the cuttings I took..... trouble is, I don't remember what order I took the cuttings in, and I didn't label them..... lol..... I have them grouped together by strain, just don't know which strain is which..... lol......

Let me try and smoke a bong load see if that helps..... bubble bubble bubble......... cough cough........ bubble bubble bubble..... cough cough....... hmmm...... bubble bubble bubble....... cough cough......

What am I trying to remember? Im hungry, I will try to remember what I am trying to remember after I snack on some fruit n stuff


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## lonleysmoka (Nov 4, 2009)

LOL it should be bubble bubble bubble bubble...cough cough cough cough that sounds more like it. What is the deciding factor on the widow cindy??


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

density........ bud structure, plant structure, smell....... one of the two I have in flower actually looks quite nice, they are different phenotypes though..... same as the mother, which I haven't flowered, so the determining factor will be the buds I see on the clones I just took....... if I could just figure out what is what lol......

So basically I am going to take extra Chemo Cindy and Twilight clones to plug the gap if I do toss the Widow Cindy


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## lonleysmoka (Nov 4, 2009)

Just love how detailed you are with everything. Density of the buds? What do you mean by bud structure??


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

bud structure is in a nutshell:

how many calyxes develop, how quickly, how densely, how triched they are at each stage of development during flowering (chopping flowering cycle into 4 parts  ) how many bud sites form, the calyx color, and colour, shape, any abnormalities (such as large castings, deformed calyxes etc.), which way each "bud shoot" goes in which direction and how, uniformity or or randomness or sparseness, color of pistils, pistil age and development, pistil length, stem size, leaf to calyx ratio, bud sizes, how the leaves grow out of the buds......


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## lonleysmoka (Nov 4, 2009)

You have me speechless as usual.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

the WC with the curved stem is showing my least favorite characteristics from C-99...... the other one is showing just the right ones, but a bit too much WW for my taste.... Im hoping the mother I chose falls right in between with the acceptation that she demonstrates the qualities of C-99 that I like, rather than dislike.....

Curved Stem WC phenos: 
calyxes are large, but look "Odd" when they first come out, no resin until calyxes are three plus weeks old, there are large gaps between the calyxes themselves (some gaps may fill in others may not, we will see), bud sites are few and far between (but the buds themselves are of a decent size), her pistils are too long and thick for my liking, she has white pistils instead of the pretty pink that I like so much (from C-99), the plant itself is sensitive to ph, but sucks up nutes, causing a couple of these different traits, she does not react well to wind (unlike the C-99 plants that I grew in the past)

Strait Stem WC FIM'ed (three main tops):
Calyxes are slightly smaller than that of her sister, but come in more densely, pistils are still long, but skinnier (which I like), lots of bud sites, reacts well to nutes and ph shifts, vigorous and quick to flower, smells dank, lower leaf to calyx ratio, starts triching up just before two weeks of age per calyx (which is nothing compared to the instant trich delevopment on the CC and Twilight), the buds themselves are smaller slightly, but worth it for the extra quality, she will be a heavier yielder and better buds IMO (prediction)


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## lonleysmoka (Nov 4, 2009)

What is such a big deal about the pistils being short/long or skinny/thick. Does resin showing early on Calyxes mean overall resin production will be higher than the average?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

pistil length and thickness is just a personal preference with me, yes trichome development in the earlier stages is related to the trichome development in the later stages, not necessarily the amount of trichomes, but their size, development, and length...... it is typical though that if it doesn't start out with a whole lot, its not going to end up with a whole lot, but a good part of how it goes has to do with the grower and the technique ...... seeing as how the WC with the curved stalk wasn't FIM'ed and was grown using the same techniques (in relation to general practice, the plant still had its own focusses) as the other three strains, it is safe to say that it will produce less trichomes over all then compared to the other three strains.

Chemo Cindy has the largest trichomes, and they come in very densely populated , the buds are large and dense, this plant also has the most budsites per inch of stem.

Twilight has the most trichomes coming in over all and has the densest calyx formation, though the trichomes are slightly smaller in length (they are just slower to develop as they do get longer with age) they are fatter than any of the others, this plant has the second most bud sites per inch of stem.

Maui Skunk has an almost perfectly evenly distributed flower development pattern, tight buds, avg sized pistils and calyxes, that are nicely covered by avg sized trichomes which are devoloping at a good rate, she stretched more during the initial phase than any of the other plants, she hogs the light sucks up the nutes and the water really quickly, she has the second to last bud sites per inch of stem ratio, but I think technique has play into a good part of this, as if I had done a few things differently with her (like LSTing and giving her more veg light), than I think I would be seeing more budsites, and had I got to trim her right as I flipped the switch to 12/12 (having LST'ed her with denser veg nodes) she wouldn't have stretched quite as much, and still had the same perfect development patterns, so she is definitely a keeper, one that I will work with more in the future ........ she may have a brilliant future 

The Widow Cindy with the curved stalk has the least amount of bud sites per inch of stem, and I am not favorable to... I think I described her enough for today...

The Strait Stalk FIM'ed Widow Cindy looks very nice..... she sits in dead fourth place thus far, though she beats out the Maui Skunk in bud site per inch of stem, she is just as dense calyx wise.... indeed she is very comparable to the Maui Skunk.....

I didn't take any cuttings from these plants as I had planned.... it seemed more of a hassle than it was worth..... but the preview for what is to come from the clones of those mothers is very promising........ I would be stoked if I pulled a lb total from these six ladies in flower....... they look like they will give me between 9 oz's-14 oz's depending on how the next two and a half weeks go (while I shoot them up with nutrients lol)

Like I wrote before..... I have a lot of catching up to do with this journal...... thus far it isn't even half ass..... its been 1/4 ass.... LOL..... things are starting to come together..... Im working on it


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

I watered all the vegging ladies good this morning  Ladies in flower get watered tomorrow.....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

yep....

Curved stalk WC.... gone tomorrow....... I don't like her! she grew some balls, I don't even want to deal with it....... I am considering putting a Jack Herer into flower though....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 4, 2009)

I think I figured out which cuttings were which strain based on my memory (so could be dead wrong)........ Five had full Sets of roots sticking a 1/2" out from the cubes, and 3 or 4 were right behind it with their first roots poking through, so I just threw them all into pots with soil (16 of them)..... 1 gal pots filled 3/4 with FFOF, but the top layer (top 1/4) is a mix between light warrior, Bio Bizz All Mix, and FFOF..... I expect to see decent vegetative growth from most them starting the beginning of next week....... One thing to note is that I was told that Twilight is extremely difficult to clone, and coincidentally, none of the rooted clones were what I suspect to be the Tilight..... so we will see how it comes out...... I just really need the humidity dome for the next set of cuttings so I can separate the strains easier using two cloning trays with humidity domes when I take cuttings tomorrow, (Yes Tomorrow!  ) I will probably take 5 or six of each including 5 or 6 from the Jack Herer I have decided to flower in stead of the Curved Stalked WC...... I noticed some of the cuttings droop after transplant so I will keep a slightly closer eye on their conditions...... but basically the 1 gal pots should be dry by Sunday night, and in the in between time all those cuttings should get a good start to sending their roots out as far as they can and suck up as much as they can before natural soil transpiration and aeration cause the pots to need to be watered again in order to sustain life 

Was just wondering if anyone can tell which bud shots were which strain based on the description I gave earlier, since I didn't label the pictures?


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## wonderblunder (Nov 5, 2009)

Can't wait to see your harvest and then the full perpetual shit..... should be good....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 6, 2009)

Curved Stalk WC only had one male pollen sack, and I looks all over her...... see no more than one.... so I pick the one and leave, we see what happens? Shrugs...... I kind of want to just use the HPS that I already have up for just flowering larger plants, not particularly and SOG..... and using the next 1000W setup to do SOG, compare and decide..... shrugs, SOG has always beat out big lushy plants in the past...... lol...... but If I start flowering that JH, she will be going on into January..... lol


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## wonderblunder (Nov 6, 2009)

Jack Here sounds sweet. Long flowering time? I picked 1 pollen pod from one plant. And then someone told me no good so I chopped "it" down. Ill make wraps out of "it"


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 6, 2009)

I am under the impression this one pollen pod appeared due to a specific stress (or order of stresses) since I am "pushing" these plants, it is almost to be expected, the resiliance of all the strains has proven itself, the WC being the least resiliant to stresses, remember I already pulled one Twilight hermie out, ..... I will pluck the pod and see what happens ..... she isn't looking too bad, and Im sure Some one will apreciate the more developed buds to smoke ..... if she starts throwing out more pods.... well, she will have to come down.... but until then I am going to play with her some more..... and of course my lazy procastinating stoner ass didn't take cuttings yesterday (I passed out with my baby girl  ), so I will have to do that later this afternoon  LOL


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## lonleysmoka (Nov 6, 2009)

What you a stoner??? never would of guessed that LOL


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## wonderblunder (Nov 6, 2009)

sounds like a good plan. Everytime I read one of your detailed posts like this another piece fits into the puzzle


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 6, 2009)

lets see if some post harvest Sensi Star Cuttings will root shall we? The plants were all harvested at the closest one week or more ago.... I am going to go through and pick popcorn nuggets and take some cuttings to see if they will root..... this should be interesting, ......... revegging the potted plants didn't work due in the most part to my lack of attention to them post harvest, and general abuse ..... lol...... after I take (what 6-8 or so) Sensi Star cuttings this evening I will move on to taking more cuttings from the indoor plants......

Most of the cuttings/clones I just put into 1 gallon pots look alright..... the PK clones are revegging very nicely as well ..... still have that last battle with the mites that are on the silverback to do..... But I am putting that off until this upcoming Tuesday or wednesday.....

The 4th week sure is a glorious one for the ladies in flower..... they each sucked up a little bit more than a gallon when I watered them yesterday evening! 

Nutes day after tomorrow for the ladies in flower, and this evenning after the clone session for the mothers in veg.... 

And thanks Wonderblunder...... I have never tried to complete such an intricate puzzle.... Im still almost baffled by fitting the pieces together appropriately


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## wonderblunder (Nov 7, 2009)

I think we all have a different puzzle..... Sometimes, I am putting pieces in, sometimes the puzzle is getting bigger...... Haven't found a balance. 
I need to do some bug control today, if you have a minute.............


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 7, 2009)

ahh bug control ...... and yes every puzzle is different, as each complete puzzle makes for a different image


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## dgk4life (Nov 7, 2009)

yeah gonna try the garlic method u suggested .. got the recipe? then when i go to the hydro shop in two weeks to get the tent and hood im gonna pick up some pyrithium foggers ..


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 7, 2009)

be careful with those foggers.....


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## wonderblunder (Nov 7, 2009)

garlic recipe?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 7, 2009)

minced garlic..... strain oils...... mix 1 part oil 7 parts water, put in spray bottle..... let sit on foliage for ten fifteen minutes, then use regular water to rinse off....... But I wouldn't do that for gnats


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 7, 2009)

6 more pollen pods on the WC..... she gets the chop today :/.......


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## Mammath (Nov 7, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> 6 more pollen pods on the WC..... she gets the chop today :/.......


Yep, sound like she's run her race.
It's a shame, how far gone was she?


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## wonderblunder (Nov 7, 2009)

hey tld, i found some immature seeds in one of my plants.should i chop her.. it? THe caregiver the seeds came from had hermie problems. The rest are fine, and only the Blueberry and the flo are from him. The flo is the one with the seeds


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 7, 2009)

4 weeks, but I pushed all these plants a little extra hard ....... pics on Tuesday night or Wednesday


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 7, 2009)

its up to you....... I would, you sure they are seeds and not pollen sacks..... any way you could post a close up pic of it in your journal?


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## wonderblunder (Nov 7, 2009)

i broke a branch off and dried it, then 2 days later i start fucking with it and a light green seed comes out
only of the lower nug of the branch. the rest of the buds were alright


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## wonderblunder (Nov 7, 2009)

2 days later, is today, 2 hours ago


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 7, 2009)

depends on if you want to have seeds???


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 7, 2009)

SOOOO 

The Maui Skunk just moved up to tie with the Chemo Cindy and the Twilight for First Place in my list of affections and rated comparison of the strains currently in flower LOL...... She is just Tightening and Densing, and Triching up So Fast!! Loving it..... Whoa..... The Chemo Cindy has Calyxes as wide as me thumbnail is wide! And damn near as long! The Strait Stalk Widow Cindy is coming around nicely as well....  

I also Realised today...... It fucking Reeks all around my house! lol


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## dgk4life (Nov 7, 2009)

yours too... thats y mine smells then cause im friends wit u!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol


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## wonderblunder (Nov 8, 2009)

SHould I worry about the other plants in the flower room? I really would like to let it keep budding........ will the seeds be good for anything?


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## dgk4life (Nov 8, 2009)

if you already have actual seeds forming then just pray the other ones aint pollinated.. if they r grow em out and u should have good viable seeds


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## wonderblunder (Nov 8, 2009)

I think it is ok, I shouldn't have fucked with these seeds yet....... the guy I got them from has had constant hermie problems, which is fucking a whole collaboration project. I got to excited and to cheap to buy all new seeds.

On a better note, I found a G-13 Purple Lady Seed that I thought I lost.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 8, 2009)

Genetics! I need say no more...... as that is what the entire journal has been about up to now, and continuing on 

Genetics..... I can't stress it more........

Genetics......


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## wonderblunder (Nov 8, 2009)

I think I am decently covered..... I am getting 3 new strains from my dispensary sometime soon whenever they have clones ready..... Only thing is around here Dispensaries make up names for their strains, because they say calling it what is will create controversy. The Wonder Woman is looking so beautiful, and the buds are double the size of some of the others. I have decided to run Wonder Woman and one other strain (yet to be chosen), for my big pots next run. I will continue experimenting with different strains in veg and flowering 1 gallon pots.. I am learning mucho


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## dgk4life (Nov 8, 2009)

make sure u scrub down your room and equip and flooes b4 u intro a new crop once u do that do it again


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## wonderblunder (Nov 8, 2009)

Definitely will. THis past time was my second time sterilizing the room, I got a method down, I even tore up the tarps on the floor and disenfected the carpet underneath......... I think I got it down....... Got new storage bins for my nutrients and essentials, and got all of my equipment out..... and in storage elsewhere. the room cleaned up quite a bit. I think I will do what TLD said and do it twice.......


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## dgk4life (Nov 8, 2009)

lol i said that but hey its ok...


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## wonderblunder (Nov 8, 2009)

sorry, I did see it in the begining of this thread when TLD was discussing taking pollen and pollinating plants...... no disrespect


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## dgk4life (Nov 8, 2009)

lol i was jk man


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 8, 2009)

WC with the curved stalk was harvested and trimmed..... her pistils are turning pink...... I will include her in a pic set in a couple days..... pink, go figure  ....... was going to give them nutes today..... But I will push it until lights on tomorrow, ....... still haven't gotten around to replacing the Curved Stalk WC with a Jack Herer...... I have really kinda neglected the veg room for the last couple days due to unforeseen events ...... things should turn around in there, but I may have lost a couple clones (Like all the Twilight clones  ).......... Purple Kush is lookin lustrous


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## wonderblunder (Nov 9, 2009)

looking forward to the curve stalk WC pics. Pink Pistols sounds nice........ bummer about the clones...... I pushed myself to do some shit yesterday so I didn't lose a batch of clones. They are now in solo cups with soil...........


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 9, 2009)

no big deal bout the batch of clones...... get what I get won't throw a fit......


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## wonderblunder (Nov 9, 2009)

i hear ya.... When is the next round going into flower?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 9, 2009)

not sure..... gunna finish my outdoor up and figure it out


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## wonderblunder (Nov 9, 2009)

Ill head over and check the outdoor its been a while......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

The Ladies in Flower were fed today......

1/4 strength EJG
Full Strength FF BB

3/4 Strength FF TB
Full Strength BBB
watered in

They look lonely in there.....
*
WEEK 5 PICS *


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

And this is the Chemo Cindy


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

And the Maui Skunk , it was harder to get good shots of her today......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

And the Twilight.....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

And Lastly...... Widow Cindy 

Might I add she is about a week behing the others, as she was an add in/replacement after they had already been on 12/12 for about a week


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## Mammath (Nov 11, 2009)

Nice...
Love the update.
Thanks TLD
Get that foliage into shape 

Edit... haha just jerking ya chain mate lol


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

I have another set of pictures coming tomorrow morning..... was just covering the basic angles there ^^^^


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## DST (Nov 11, 2009)

Hey TLD, just stopping by for a cuppa tea and a bong. Sheesh you got some long legged lovelys there, beautiful colas!!

Peace DST


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## wonderblunder (Nov 11, 2009)

awesome pics TLD, The pink pistols on the widow cindy are amazing. SOme beautiful Colas on the twilight.... You have some nice looking buds. SOmeday mine will look like that at week 5........... hopefully........


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## dgk4life (Nov 11, 2009)

wow bro very nice  ...got this chick comin tonight wit her camera so macro shots for me this weekk


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## wonderblunder (Nov 11, 2009)

Could you perhaps rephrase that light setup in my thread perhaps. Hey I now have 2 400ws to put in my setup. I started a thread on how to position the lights think you may be able to help.....
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/269984-1800w-flower-room-question-pics.html#post3379604


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

oh uh I just checked your journal...... and posted real quick.....

laid down carpet in the veg room, hung the fluorescent panel rather than sticking it back on posts, lined the walls with white/black reflective poly plastic, pulled a couple cuttings that didn't root, watered all the clones, fed all the mothers, Jack herer and Silverback got showered, and showered again, and fed...... going to add more light to the room (another 400W and a 600W, both metal halide) and build some housing tables for clones/cuttings/seedlings/vegging plants etc. ...... making perpetual growing easier ....... but I will get that done next go around.......

Flower room is flowering ...... getting done fast...... or at least it seems that way, 5 weeks into it, it really only feels like two, lol, but they are just going Boom! yah know? ..... gunna have a nice smokey Christmas  

pics soon


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## wonderblunder (Nov 11, 2009)

Hey take a look now TLD new pics of what I did, I may go back and re adjust after reading your post


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

I would .... it looks cool, but not really as practical 

Would love to see that 1000W in the 42''


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## wonderblunder (Nov 11, 2009)

1000w in the 42, and then a 400 in the extra sun hood. I like that, never thought of it. I think I will do that. I could put the 1000w way closer and get the same spread.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

And edge your parabolic reflector with the 400W spreads to create an evenly spread canopy of light


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## nickbbad (Nov 11, 2009)

Looking Good. Quick question is this light brown spot on your bud a leaf or a male banana?


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## wonderblunder (Nov 11, 2009)

Looks sweet TLD, take a look at the lights now did what ya said.......... fucking awesome.... DOnt know what Id do without you... THe canopy is about 6.5 X 6.5 feet......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

got some more shots, yep, ChemoCindy

and nah..... it was a leaf of another kind of plant (oak leaf I think  ) its still there


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

some more shots , Maui Skunk


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

and the Twilight of course 

No Widow Cindy shots in this picture session..... all these pictures were taken yesterday 

And Yeah I will go check out how they are now  (the lights)


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## greenfirekilla420 (Nov 11, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> some more shots , Maui Skunk


 
That Maui Skunk is looking hot TLD. Man she is gonna be fat in a couple weeks. Is this strain avalible in seed form?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

I have no idea...... The Chemo Cindy Has the Largest Calyxes I have ever seen.... and I am getting really baked


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## greenfirekilla420 (Nov 11, 2009)

Gotcha, chemo cindy? I take it she has chemdawg in her blood line huh?


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## dgk4life (Nov 11, 2009)

posted those macro shots for ya bro..


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

thanks man....

GFK- chemo X Cinderella 99 

veg room is starting to shape up 

*Bout ready to really start cloning *this upcoming week..... putting the first Real runs starting at around Christmas or New Years! 

hopefully get some Sensi Star cuttings to root and mother.....

Purple Kush Mother in Training! 

Ready to get the stuff on the list of stuff  get it set up, and Santa just might bring some extra Genetics to the party


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## wonderblunder (Nov 11, 2009)

Veg room looks sick TLD, helped put everything in perspective. You got a bunch of nice looking plants in there, gave me some ideas


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 11, 2009)

thank you.... and like I said the veg room is Starting to shape up 

so, ...... yeah...... quite unplanned, I just took 28 Silverback cuttings....... and 20 Jack Herer cuttings.......

It started by me deciding to trim up the one Jack Herer before putting her in flower...... and taking cuttings while doing it......... lol...... SilverBack just got hacked to pieces....... poor lady, she looks like some one ran a lawn mower over her...... and the Jacks look good , I took 10 cuttings from each Jack...... I chucked aside a bunch of clones that were barely rooted and not looking good...... and decided that I shouldn't have let the pots dry out completely and neglected them completely for a week, lol.........

Framework for the second 1000W setup is going up this upcoming weekend! ......... equipment should be here next week...... I plan to take another batch of cuttings from the Big mothers this weekend as well..... be a bit more careful with them and not pot them all at the same time ........


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 12, 2009)

just thought I would mention..... This dude is MEAN, like a dog, like chew your fuckin ankles off..... Hard as nails, drunk as a dog, he is always watching the ladies....... HUNGRY!


like the security service?


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## THseaman (Nov 12, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> My bill is about $100 a month and I pull 2700 watts plus A/C, pumps, ect.


BULL! I live in the Rocky Mountains too and run 3000w (600w X 4 + 3 X 200w T5s) plus a/c (13,000BTU portable), pumps(2 x 750GPH), fans(2x550 CFS + 1 250 CFS), and 3, 16" oscillating fans, and my bill is consistently around $300 a month year round. There is no way an extra 300w +/- is going to cause my bill to be 200% more per month than yours. 

Can somebody else IN COLORADO please chime in if I'm off base. Because I've been growing at this place for about a year now and it would suck if I'm being raped.


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## PainWrek (Nov 12, 2009)

nice guard dog, loaded. looks like he's being fed a healthy amount of dead fetuses. cool.


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## wonderblunder (Nov 12, 2009)

Clones are good.........


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## wonderblunder (Nov 12, 2009)

Hell of a project and guard dog.... is the new 1000w going in the same flowering room or a new room.......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 12, 2009)

same room..... it will be set up according to the original diagram I posted earlier in this journal .... I still have a couple designs to throw out though, ...... soon........


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## wonderblunder (Nov 12, 2009)

nice nice will go back and look


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 13, 2009)

I think its time I do some nutrient comparisons, 

My current nutrient line up vs pure FF vs pure AN vs current line up with BMO flower Power instead of FFTB vs BMO vs another nutrient line that hasn't been determined....

any suggestions on the other nutrient line to use?


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## wonderblunder (Nov 14, 2009)

GH? Roots?
I think I may give roots a try on the next run.......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 14, 2009)

I am not a fan at all of GH..... won't ever even try them...... roots maybe uh...... maybe Humbolts line......


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## wonderblunder (Nov 14, 2009)

I am digging one of GH's additives right now, don't know anything about their line........ I think it would be sweet if you did this, as you have a keen sense of observation and recording! I couldn't think of anyone better....
P.S. My girls are loving the extra lights, and I killed the herm


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## NewGrowth (Nov 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I am not a fan at all of GH..... won't ever even try them...... roots maybe uh...... maybe Humbolts line......


What's wrong with GH? Industry standard man! Good stuff! Humbolt and House and Garden is the same shit guess but damn that crap is really expensive. Gravity is some killer shit tho . . .


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## notoriousb (Nov 14, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> What's wrong with GH? Industry standard man! Good stuff! Humbolt and House and Garden is the same shit guess but damn that crap is really expensive. Gravity is some killer shit tho . . .


I really want to try their new General Organics line. anyone else seen or used it? 

and I was watching Jorge Cervante's Ultimate Grow and he was saying that some organics are only for Hydro-Organic setups and one of the nutes he showed was BioBizz Bloom formula. I'm sure it's still ok to use in soil tho dont you think TLD?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 14, 2009)

Unfortunately Jorge Cervantes is a pot culture star....... and too many people go on the assumption he is right........ if its not supposed to be used alongside organic soil or fertilizers....... shouldn't it have screwed up my outdoor buds? Those lovely tastey Sexy beautiful outdoor nugs that everyone is raving about??????? lol.... yeah be fine....... However...... some chemical fertilizers don't react well with organic soils, some organic fertilizers don't react well with hydroponic set ups..... it all just depends..... you have to look into the specifics of your grow to make the decision yourself


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## neoShogun911 (Nov 14, 2009)

..... and ill take pictures  ... i like to take pictures... and uh yeah that outdoor... is amazing


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 14, 2009)

*They will be fed three more times and then flushed*, *the flush starting December 1st or there abouts*  .... the ladies in flower that is..... here we come Week 6...... and we are pushing it well into week 9 before Harvest! 


The ladies in flower will get watered tomorrow....... the ladies in veg maybe too if their pots dry out enough.... cuttings are all looking good , Purple Kush doin her thang RRRAAWW


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## greenthumb111 (Nov 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> *They will be fed three more times and then flushed*, *the flush starting December 1st or there abouts*  .... the ladies in flower that is..... here we come Week 6...... and we are pushing it well into week 9 before Harvest!
> 
> 
> The ladies in flower will get watered tomorrow....... the ladies in veg maybe too if their pots dry out enough.... cuttings are all looking good , Purple Kush doin her thang RRRAAWW


HEy TLD I am following your thread and noticed you had CC and WC growing. I hope the WC does good for you. THe WC red/white I had were ok but the CC and WC clone (sideshow bob) were very nice. I am still trimming WC clone and WC red/white so I will give you a smoke report soon. Good luck on the nute comparison. Try Maxsea grow and Bloom.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 15, 2009)

that would be interesting to throw into the mix wouldn't it? I will read up on it some more and see if I can manage it......... So many different products........


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## wonderblunder (Nov 15, 2009)

Got some PK beans from a Oregon patient yesterday. They traveled many miles......... Got them germing......


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## notoriousb (Nov 15, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Unfortunately Jorge Cervantes is a pot culture star....... and too many people go on the assumption he is right........ if its not supposed to be used alongside organic soil or fertilizers....... shouldn't it have screwed up my outdoor buds? Those lovely tastey Sexy beautiful outdoor nugs that everyone is raving about??????? lol.... yeah be fine....... However...... some chemical fertilizers don't react well with organic soils, some organic fertilizers don't react well with hydroponic set ups..... it all just depends..... you have to look into the specifics of your grow to make the decision yourself


thanks for the reassurance TLD 
that's what I figured but always good to have a second opinion


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## curious old fart (Nov 15, 2009)

I was having some germination problems and read what you were doing and added Thrive Alive to my process. Problem cured. I was using GH nutrients that were working fair, but again I read that you were using fox farm and bio bizz and made the change. Positive results were visually noticable almost immediately.. These nute companies ought to be paying you for mentioning their product. Thank you for the wealth of information that you are providing.

peace
cof


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 15, 2009)

no water for the ladies in veg today....... just those in flower...... and I mixed in 1/5 strength feeding of Bio Bizz Bloom...... ........ watered in of course to make it more like 1/8 strength ..... just for shits and giggles .......

Sadly..... I may be dropping FF TB....... though I am not entirely sure yet..... I am interested to see how the nute comparison goes...... it won't be this first batch going into flower (the Jacks and SilverBacks).... but the next one , so I can have a nice even mix of strains, and a good number of plants to work with, using brand new equipment etc. etc.

Bio Bizz All Mix will be the medium Im pretty sure..... it will be a potted soil grow (to break in the new flowering area).....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 16, 2009)

.Today is Day 1 Week 6 in flower... and the ladies celebrated by swelling up nicely overnight ..... I am loving this, very impressed by these strains indeed! The WC has started to foxtail a little bit, I think she just wanted some water though...... lol..... best damn throw away plants ever  I should be able to get some good pics soon???? I hope? won't let me put anything in bold for some reason.... really wish the site would stop having so many technical problems :/


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## w1ckedchowda (Nov 16, 2009)

niceeeeee dragon it's been a while, I see you've been keeping busy thought 

great job keeping the op going, those maui look amazing my friend 

I'll be on in the next couple days to start my new thread. Just finished putting together the basics of my new OP.

Glad to see you up in at em' though mang, keep it up with the dankety dank!


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 16, 2009)

I try to keep things flowing 

just set up another 400W MH in the Veg room.... 2 Purple Kush and 2 Jack herers are under it, leaving the Silverback lone under the fluorescent panel to heal..... accept for the cuttings of course..... which are looking just fine still...... no roots yet..... got hot in there today, I need to add an extra fan for better air circulation.....

Got another 1000W HPS etc...... just gotta frame in the second 1000W area, and dry run it ...... Behind Schedule...... but the first SOG batch should be ready to go into Flower right around Dec 12th...... right around harvest of the ladies flowering now, now that I come to think of it...... just maybe I can pull enough clones together that are vegged out well enough to start flowering both sets in two week intervals...... we'll see how it all goes..... I am building a greenhouse this winter as well..... yeah I been busy


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## ReAVeR (Nov 16, 2009)

damn, sounds like you've got a lot on your hands. But I must say, I'm impressed. Great job man, you should try H&G nutes for your comparison. Would be dope to see the results


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 16, 2009)

Thanks 

For the Ladies in Flower  :

I picked up Bio Bizz Top Max, Earth Juice Hi Brix, and Botanicare Cal Mag +......... The Top Max Full Strength is to be used at the end of this current flowering cycle with these last three feedings, the Earth Juice Hi Bricks 1/4 strength will be used with waterings during the flush (in between the Full flushes and the Bio Bizz Bloom waterings), and the botanicare Cal Mag + will be added with the last 2 feedings at 1/2 strength before the flush........ should be some interesting results here 

Ladies in Veg are about to be watered 

Cuttings are about to get Thrive Alive B1 in the morning.......

Picked up enough soil 

things are starting to pick up


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## ReAVeR (Nov 16, 2009)

awesome man, have you mixed the OF and LW together before, in a 2/1?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 16, 2009)

Yeah, I have used LW and OF at 2:1 ratio before this grow  used it last year and this last spring  .....

Oh and in regards to these last three feedings...... this next one (like tomorrow) will be FF Big Bloom and Tiger bloom 3/4 strength, Bio Bizz Bloom and Bio Bizz Top Max Full Strength......... the next one after that will be Botanicare Cal Mag + at 1/2 Strength and FF Tiger Bloom at 3/4 Strength, Bio Bizz Bloom and Bio Bizz Top Max at Full Strength........ and the last one will be Botanicare Cal Mag + at 1/2 Strength and FF Tiger Bloom at Full Strength, Bio Bizz Bloom at Full Strength and Top Max at Full Strength......

see they are grouped together to be fed in a certain way........
For Example this upcoming feeding...... 2 gal watering can, filled 1/4 way with water, add 4 Tblspns FF Big Bloom, turn water on and as watering can fills the rest of the way add in 1 1/2 Tblspns FF Tiger Bloom, swishing the water around for aeration and to mix really well...... then go ahead and feed the plants...... going back and forth making sure they get the amount they "need", I don't feed until run off at this point....... they eat up just over a gallon of this mixture between the 4 of them..... then I mix another batch of the Bio Bizz Bloom and Bio Bizz Top Max the same way, and feed until they just barely have runoff (just over a gallon), then water in ....... so they are all getting about 3/4 to a gallon.....

and the next Cal Mag+ will replace Big Bloom 

I hope that made sense??? lol

And Yeah..... I know thats shooten ppms up around 2000  ...... but thats what watering in is for


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## ReAVeR (Nov 17, 2009)

did you get better results mixing them together, or portioning them, with the LW only on the top 1/4? Nice nute regime btw


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## wonderblunder (Nov 17, 2009)

Nice Nice TLD, Im stoked for the next run. Light warrior on top for seed starting? may grab a bag. I want to treat these PK's like kings..... I mean Queens..... Who makes Bio-Bizz? Proabably get some today. Hey if i were gonna switch my nutes up a bit which line would you pick.


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## ReAVeR (Nov 17, 2009)

Bio-Bizz is the company, but I believe they are incorporated with Canna? Correct me if I'm wrong


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## w1ckedchowda (Nov 17, 2009)

hey loaded you got any suggestions for seedlings that are taking a lil longer and yellowing?

I think it might be the pH cause they were transplanted from rockwool INTO soil, so they both have 2 seperate pH levels. 

Temps are 79F - 81F and humidity is at 50%.

They were transplanted about a week ago.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

seedlings? Started in Rockwool.... how old? What soil? What size pot, whats the relative ph of both the soil and the rock wool cube and the water (rock wool should be about the same as the water you have been giving them)..... sounds like they may just be hungry..... but I would need a little more info bout whats going on with them..... what kind of lighting as well?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

Bio Bizz is made in Holland by BioBizz with help from World Wide Organics, and to the best of my knowledge doesn't have any affiliation with Canna nutes other than possibly the same distributor?

http://www.biobizz.nl/

http://www.worldwideorganics.com.au/default.htm

BioBizz is a nute line I will Stick with for as long as I can..... I am seeing excellent results in my use of their Bio Bloom through out the last three years..... and I am very pleased with their sources, their practices, and their general policies as outlined with World Wide Organics...... to the point that I am adding another product from their line, Top Max...... and I will probably use the whole line in the nute comparison, bumping it up to 6 nute lines to compare.... but I can't quite afford to do it Right this second/grow ..... I want to put it off until it will be conclusive ...... so this upcoming spring..... but the more feedback and info that can be generated before then, the better all around nutrient comparrison we will have..... I will even start a new thread for it


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

oh yeah.... and yes..... got better results leaving the FF OF on bottom, filling up pot 2/3 of the way....... then putting in some LW and mixing it together, and filling the top 1/4 of the pot with just Light Warrior (1 gallon pots, then transplanted into 5 gal pots of BioBizz All Mix soil mixed together with FF OF and perlite)

here is the link to the product BioBizz incorporates into its mixes from World Wide Organics

http://www.worldwideorganics.com.au/hgs.html


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

No..... Canna and BioBizz are not under the same umbrella at all..... 

There are plenty of good germinating mixes besides LW........ I just make my mix and throw the beans in there, and water, and they germ and sprout within a week usually ....... depending on the strain and quality of individual seeds of course ...... The point of having Light Warrior on the top is that it holds water well, is very well aerated, and has practically no nutritional value...... the seeds themselves contain enough nutrients and essential vitamins to sustain the sprout to its first true set of leaves (the first week to week and a half if there is stunting after sprouting), and during this time the roots establish themselves drawing on what is available from the seed, only once roots are established to draw up water and nutrients etc for self sustinence as well as a set of true leaves that are past 1/3 of the way to complete development, the plants are ready to begin using those roots and first leaves to create additional growing energy  and Truely begin its vegetative cycle...... the idea being that the roots will have grown just large enough to tap into the mixed LW and OF to start drawing on the nutes without being overwhelmed or burned..... and after they use that layer of available nutrition, they move farther down into the pure FF OF with added perlite....

This last batch of seeds I did I used slightly too much LW


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

speeking of Germing seeds...... I am thinking of popping some more......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

Don G&T I am not exactly sure what you are referring too...... RIU is my main spot....... though I have gone off and checked around ........ which posts?


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## ReAVeR (Nov 17, 2009)

Ok thanks. Asked because I read that OF is known for burning plants and has the wrong ratio of nutes, but when cut with LW makes for a pretty good base mix. I'm using Happy Frog right now, and it's been my biggest let down this grow. It contains so much wood, that watering occurs more frequently. I'm gonna go with either Roots Organic, which produces a more floral smell, or Harvest Moon, which generates a larger yield. Sunshine Mix #4 is also a good product, but requires more nutes.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

Its all up to you my friend.....

And I was off...... I highly doubt the flowering ladies will be ready to feed quite yet..... as I just watered them yesterday......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

but the ladies in veg got watered today.... ...... and the Cuttings are getting a light Thrive Alive solution added to the trays here in a little bit....... and 4 Sensi Star cuttings made their way into the veg room..... crossing my fingers with them, and will truly be impressed if they root, especially if they root quickly ..... they came off of plants that flowered and were harvested almost a month ago and are now practically dead..... Hope fully I will have good pics soon...... Neo....... The One..... LOL

I think I am going to get some more LW and some extra OF and pop some more seeds soon ....... 2nd part of flowering area should be framed in by the weekend  ready to dry run by next week


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## w1ckedchowda (Nov 17, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> seedlings? Started in Rockwool.... how old? What soil? What size pot, whats the relative ph of both the soil and the rock wool cube and the water (rock wool should be about the same as the water you have been giving them)..... sounds like they may just be hungry..... but I would need a little more info bout whats going on with them..... what kind of lighting as well?


They are about 1.5 weeks old, the rockwool was soaked overnight in tap water. I germinated them before puttin them into the rockwool as well.

The pot is pretty big, enough for a seedling and it's FF Ocean Forest under a 400 HPS.

They are about 2.5 feet away from the light, 79F degrees and 50% humidity.

I think it might just be the rockwool's high ph qualities combined with the roots now hitting new soil (new pH as well) so they are just adjusting and yellowing a bit from the pH stress I believe. 

Thanks for any input mang, I appreciate the help.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

your interpretation sounds correct....... over watering could be another cause though...... I would leave that judgement up to you


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## ReAVeR (Nov 17, 2009)

got my fingers crossed for the sensi star


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

thanks ...... I have high hopes


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

watching a prison video scaring the shit out of me


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## w1ckedchowda (Nov 17, 2009)

lawl don't do that! bad karma! >.<


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 17, 2009)

its sad...... I keep everything legal so I don't have to go there ..... but man, prison is vicious....... How do we let places like that exist?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 18, 2009)

so anyways.... about half way done framing ...... will probably be done tomorrow night ....... things are going very smoothly indeed......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 18, 2009)

time to give the cuttings some Thrive Alive B1 right now..... some roots barely poking out the bottom of a couple.... I will wait to transplant into pots until almost every single one has roots well established....... three weeks and round 1 phase 2 gets under way using these cuttings (as they should have vegged well enough long by then)  ...... I have heard that Jack Herer is a small yielder of fantastic smoke..... and details regarding the Silverback strain remain elusive, however, besides her knack to harbor spider mites, she seems very resilient, vigorous, and healthy/stable.....

The flowering girls got fed as earlier described (1st feeding of last three) I will report how the respond to it tomorrow


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## wonderblunder (Nov 19, 2009)

Prison doesn't sound like a fun place....... good to keep it legit....... Fed for the last time on my Wonder Woman and Hashplant.... Hashplant needs to get cut as soon as its flushed. Flushing will start when it dries out..... bone dry.... 
Would love to see some whole room pics, especially of the new work, Im having a hard time picturing what your doing here....... 
What medium for clones TLD? or Aero?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 19, 2009)

I would get pics..... maybe the shitty camera will work....... its a hell of a mess in there right now (the flowering room)..... did work on 2010 outdoor grow today though, nothing indoors..... haven't made my rounds for this grow quite yet.... about to go check things out.....

rock wool, and soil media for cuttings and clones


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## wonderblunder (Nov 19, 2009)

Alright, I have had near 100% with rockwool, roto rooters, and peat pellet dealies. But rockwool took the longest........ Once they had some roots they were drying out within hours. in a humidity dome. I have been placing them in a bed of hydroton, and keeping the water level below the rockwool. water from the top, and then gently shake to get some water out and get some oxygen into the cube.... Roto Rooters I put in a 1/4-1/2 inch of water. Any good tips for rockwool.

Ph the RW
soak in solution(thrive Alive)
weigh out to 30 gs (1.5" RW cubes)
Dip cutting in rooting gel (Olivias, Rootech, or Vita Grow)
Stick in RW cube
place in tray described above under humidity dome

Anything you do differently?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 19, 2009)

I dip and swish away air bubbles and hold in 75 degree water (or there abouts) water before applying root hormone..... and split the bottom tip


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## wonderblunder (Nov 19, 2009)

don't understand the first part, I get the splitting tip........


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## PainWrek (Nov 19, 2009)

congrats wonder, you have the 666th post on this thread....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 19, 2009)

I dip the tip into water and swish it around slowly, and the air bubbles that are stuck to it come off, then while it is still under the water I split the tip, hold it there for about 15 seconds or so, and pull it out and immediately dip into rooting hormone, where it is lightly swished through and stuck in a pre-soaked ph'ed rock wool cube and misted with cool water.......


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## wonderblunder (Nov 19, 2009)

I see thanks for clarifying. Will do, taking a round of clones tommorrow. Will give it a whirl.....


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## Jerry Garcia (Nov 20, 2009)

Wait, TLD you root clones in rock wool and then transfer them to soil after they root? Am I understanding that correctly?

If so, I don't understand...

I like your seed starting method though of 1/4 light warrior atop 3/4 ocean forest. I'm going to copy it when I start my next round of seeds.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 20, 2009)

well..... the rock wool goes into the soil with them  ..... what is it you don't understand?


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## Jerry Garcia (Nov 20, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> well..... the rock wool goes into the soil with them  ..... what is it you don't understand?


I never real thought that was an option. I guess I don't understand what the advantage is of doing it that way.

What's wrong with cloning directly into the soil? Did you not have as good success doing that compared to this new method? I'm intrigued by this...

What happens to the rock wool once it's planted it in the soil? Nothing, it just blends in with the soil?

Sorry if I seem so dumbfounded by this, but I truly am. Maybe I'll try thinking about this later when I'm less stoned...whenever that is...


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 20, 2009)

cloning in rock wool allows me easier manipulation of the media...... easier movement.... more control of nutrient/oxygen/moisture exposure etc. until the cutting roots........ I have had way better results in rock wool than in strait soil. Nothing happens to the rock wool when you put it into soil..... the roots grow out into the soil, and thus the rock wool and soil are one as media. Says right on the rock wool cube packaging that they can go into soil  ..... cuttings in soil are typically just as successful, but they take longer and a little extra care...... though I have been neglecting these last few batches of cuttings..... I still haven't given them the Thrive Alive B1 like I said...... so much to do, and so little of me to go around..... I will get to it all..... Maybe I will actually go do it right now......

But part of my recent lack of follow through, I am sure, is all this Purple Kush and Sensi Star I am smoking


----------



## theloadeddragon (Nov 20, 2009)

sometimes I feel so overwhelmed and its depressing...... feel lonely, surrounded by people......


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## w1ckedchowda (Nov 20, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> sometimes I feel so overwhelmed and its depressing...... feel lonely, surrounded by people......


I know the exact feeling man, just no one around to share those feelings, that's what makes ya feel so alone.

Keep your chin up, you've got a great op and have some diggity dank.

When I have days like these, I wish I could smoke, but usually don't cause I'm broke and have no nugs flowering yet


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## alli.p (Nov 20, 2009)

Looks good so far


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## wonderblunder (Nov 20, 2009)

My PK beans germed, and Just popped through the soil..........


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 20, 2009)

its more that there is SOOO much to do! And...... your right, I can't share things with people.... not even on here........ sucks.... but dank is nice......


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## wonderblunder (Nov 20, 2009)

dank is nice...... Whats next on the Perpetually Growing TLD to-Do List?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 20, 2009)

I still gotta Finish the 2nd phase of the flowering set up....... I worked outside today on 2010 outdoor grow  (which I suppose is kind of part of this grow?)...... but I might be able to get a little done in there tonight before lights out ........ I am smoking PK right now so....... maybe???? lol.... yah never know......

getting the clones transplanted this upcoming week into pots and soil....... so they can veg for about three weeks before going into flower.....

my dog got into the veg room today and knocked over both Jack Herer plants, and a Purple Kush (the larger/smaller one  that was farther along in flower and slower to reveg , larger when originally cut, but progressively smaller  )....... this was way earlier today.... they should be fine.....

should be ready to water the flowering girls either tomorrow or the next day.....

Taking another good sized batch of cuttings next week right after I transplant the rooted cuttings....

going to trim off some of the large sun leaves from the flowering ladies..... the lower ones that have yellowed and aren't contributing to flower production......

mmmmm cookies......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 20, 2009)

welll.... I haven't gotten to those cookies yet..... but some one asked bout pics of mid construction... here yah go.... didn't do a damn thing in there today...... but soon I will finish ... I mean, shit, I have 3 + weeks to get quarks worked out 

sa real shitty camera... sorry.....


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## Mammath (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks for the update mate.
You been busy hey?

... Stay focused on all the good in your life.
From what I recall, you got plenty


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

* I love and care about the people involved and affected by these occurrences, that is why I allow this to all happen and involve me....*


*my life is so spectacular in its simplest and more crucial elements that I have nothing to complain about really just love to give*


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## wonderblunder (Nov 21, 2009)

Somewhere earlier I caught wind you were working with high ceilings..... Didn't realize they were that high....... Love the pics. I have a much better understanding of whats going on. Is the tray you built in the bottom f the flowering room cover both sections or just the one with the HPS in it now? I may have to step it up a notch


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## w1ckedchowda (Nov 21, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> welll.... I haven't gotten to those cookies yet..... but some one asked bout pics of mid construction... here yah go.... didn't do a damn thing in there today...... but soon I will finish ... I mean, shit, I have 3 + weeks to get quarks worked out
> 
> sa real shitty camera... sorry.....


Goddamn does that look nice and clean and sexay.

I wish I knew the slightest thing about venting/air circulation right now.   

It will come some day.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

Circulation and exhaust were my only issue I was uncertain about (Im still a little undecided)..... but I am pretty sure I got it figured out and taken care of.... 

there are the two plant pot basins (as per room designs posted on pg 09-17 somewheres)...... they have 16" high walls.... there is a 24" gap between both basins...... there is just enough space between the grow boxes to house a 400W or 600W, which I may put in later and drop the sides of the boxes to take advantage of the full available canopy area, opening things up to cram another 10-20 plants in there. As you can see I didn't get the parabolic hood...... didn't work out at the hydro store.... but later.... The basins are raised off the ground 6 inches to allow for drainage and an easier transition from pure soil to Hydro/Aero were I to choose to, all I would have to do it put a tray down in between the pot basins to catch the drainage..... I took a picture of where the pvc comes out so you can get the idea......... I will probably be covering that whole center gap with plastic lined ply wood...... as it is the light foot print from the 1000W thats running (only one is running in the pics), extends over the middle gap and all the way to the apposing wall side........ so the plants will share lights in a sense 

There is still more Perpetually Growing to be done with this Perpetual Grow ...... but Phase 3 won't start until the spring........


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## wonderblunder (Nov 21, 2009)

Im gonna try my hand at modifying a vertical parabolic hood into one with horizontal mount fixture. Vertical parabolics can be bought as cheap as 50, but the ones with the horizontal option are all over 100. I am loving my parabolic.......


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## wonderblunder (Nov 21, 2009)

Is pic 7 with the PVC in the 2' area you were describing in between the "rooms"


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

well its one room really.... but yeah, pic 7 shows the pvc coming from the bottom of the plant pot basin box on the left (the one that has plants in it already  ) and you can see the other box where another pvc will be run out at the same spot...... I haven't put the walls on the box yet....... Its really just barely half way set up right now..... so I will get to it.....


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## wonderblunder (Nov 21, 2009)

What are the full dimensions of your flower room? Including the 2 feet in between.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> here is a room layout for the first flower room (not including exhaust/intake ventilation ducting, water lines, or circular fans which will all be mounted above or laid below the plant pot basin)
> 
> I will start with 1 1000W for a December Harvest (clones go in mid October)
> 
> ...





theloadeddragon said:


> ok I don't really feel like explaining this layout as far as whats where, accept to say there will be 2 12" circulation fans on the back wall corners, and the cool air intake will be to the front..... hopefully you can read the text areas and you will get the picture...... I will at some point explain the reasoning behind each element of the set up..... if anyone really wants me too..... maybe I will just for future referrence.... who knows....... This is an example of how the height is broken down





theloadeddragon said:


> yeah the room is 18 feet tall.... part of why I am building the subwall.... to close it in a little bit (insulate for easier climate regulation)..... I will probably keep both these tables operating even after I get the 1000 sq ft (30 ft tall or so) wherehouse set up next summer ..... I might plug in some CO2 after the first harvest .... might... getting the clones here pretty soon


should be there..... but 12 ft 6 inch long, and 7 ft 5 inches wide (the whole growing area in there, its my laundry room so the room is actually larger, lol)....... two boxes that are each 5 ft by 6 ft (each with a 1000W over them)....... the boxes can be connected to make them one (removing the center isle)...... making the one huge box approximately 11 1/2 ft by 6 ft.... I would only do that if I put another 400W or 600W right in the middle (center isle)


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

going on two weeks with no decent pictures of the ladies in flower...... *coming up on week 7 really quick! today is Day 47 I really wish I had some pics to show*..... the ones from yesterday of the ladies flowering make me sad....... Definitely don't do them justice...... I am very pleased......

Looks like we are right on schedule, and I will get a staggered harvest because of the different strains..... which really takes a load off for me ....... Loving them.... Loving it..... Fantabulous Yay Yay........ good ganja on the brain.......


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## wonderblunder (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks for recapping TLD. I could have done that myself... I wish I knew more about this device I am using currently......Sounds like things are going great in your world. Once again for clarity, When Is the next set scheduled to hit the flower room?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 22, 2009)

right after the first set is completely harvested..... so right around Dec. 12th-December 17th....... depends on how well they veg too though


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## dgk4life (Nov 22, 2009)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
me toooooooooooooooo


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## wonderblunder (Nov 22, 2009)

THen you are going to fill both rooms and flower away? or only one room to start, and then another?


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## dgk4life (Nov 23, 2009)

if your talkin to me... the tent girls will be flowered on thursday loadeds birthday.. then the main room will be tripped dec 18-19


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## ReAVeR (Nov 23, 2009)

as will mine, on the 23rd - week 9


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## wonderblunder (Nov 23, 2009)

Im stoked to see TLD flowering room all filled up.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 23, 2009)

Me too ..... most all of the cuttings have roots.... the Thrive Alive bottle that I have got too cold and went bad, I can tell by the reactions from the cuttings when I gave it to them. They seem to be coming through it without a hitch though, which is really good. I should have known better, as I left it outside overnight a couple times since the last time I used it (freezing temps)..... I think all it will do is prevent me from transplanting until this Wednesday...... nutes for the girls in veg today...... water for the ladies in flower...... things are moving smoothly now ....... the flowering room will be ready just in time


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## wonderblunder (Nov 23, 2009)

sounds awesome. Bummer about the Thrive Alive, at least it wsn't something more valueable.... How long do you reccomend a flush. 3 gallon soil pots. Gave them 9 gallons each straight water. Thinking of doing that every time they dry out for at least a week....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 23, 2009)

they would only dry out once in the week...... its all up to you buddy.... 9 gallons is a good amount, with molasses in between is what I do ..... I will be starting the flush on two of the ladies in flower in the first week of December I think......

some people go by 5 days in a week.... some by seven.... and a couple wierdos by six...... its confusing..... I go by 7 day weeks....... lol.... most do..... but some don't


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## wonderblunder (Nov 23, 2009)

Mollasses, ok.... I will give it a go. Im getting excited for the next run.......


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## neoShogun911 (Nov 23, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> going on two weeks with no decent pictures of the ladies in flower...... *coming up on week 7 really quick! today is Day 47 I really wish I had some pics to show*..... the ones from yesterday of the ladies flowering make me sad....... Definitely don't do them justice...... I am very pleased......
> 
> Looks like we are right on schedule, and I will get a staggered harvest because of the different strains..... which really takes a load off for me ....... Loving them.... Loving it..... Fantabulous Yay Yay........ good ganja on the brain.......



ok ok geeze... ill come take some more pics  nice add on  looks good, ill take some pics that look good too  you checked out the me "new glass"thread...? that bub is a trip, ill show you tomorrow


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## dgk4life (Nov 23, 2009)

wonder if u think u have a bug problem dont use mollases............


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 23, 2009)

yeah most bugs thrive on molasses


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## dgk4life (Nov 23, 2009)

sarcasm???????lol


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## DWR (Nov 24, 2009)

room is looking cool


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## wonderblunder (Nov 24, 2009)

Yea I think Im gonna skip the mollases If i had it on hand I would have done it, but I think they will just get more fresh water......
thanks for that...


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## ReAVeR (Nov 24, 2009)

Wonder I think it's worth it to go out and buy it... it's the cheapest nute you'll ever buy


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## dgk4life (Nov 24, 2009)

mollases works gr8 but i think u should identify and eliminate any bug problem.... molases is sugary sweet stuff attracts bugs if u already have bugs then they will send out their lil bug calls and their friends wil come get high on the sugary goodness buried in your root ball


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## wonderblunder (Nov 24, 2009)

Yea Im good.... Maybe next time..... Im happy with the way they are doing......


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## ReAVeR (Nov 25, 2009)

I had the same issue with some fans on only one plant. Looked exactly like the picture wonder posted, and mine was only a Mg defic .. sorry for the threadjack loaded


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 25, 2009)

so I am hoping to harvest the flowering ladies around December 13th....... couple before then maybe.... couple after maybe......


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## ReAVeR (Nov 25, 2009)

sounds good, wish I could taste them with ya


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 26, 2009)

ok.... so I will start with the group shots......




Here they are.....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 26, 2009)

Now On to the Chemo Cindy


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 26, 2009)

the only Widow Cindy shot...... and I gotta take a quick break lol.....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 26, 2009)

Maui Skunk .......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 26, 2009)

And Last but Not Least ........ the Twilight .....

too bad I couldn't of gotten a harvest in, of it, before the movie release   LOL....

All of these pics are of the plants coming into week 7 strong


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## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 26, 2009)

Damn dawg...
I just got done reading all 73 pages. Nice work! I like your style. Phat buds. Looks like you'll have a great harvest. Keep it up! I'll stay up, so you'll see me around. I'm just putting the finishing touches on my growroom. Check it out if you get a chance. 
HAha...natti ice... 
peace!


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## Jerry Garcia (Nov 26, 2009)

Bumping this pic because it's freaking awesome. 







7 weeks and looking strong my man!


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## notoriousb (Nov 26, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> And Last but Not Least ........ the Twilight .....
> 
> too bad I couldn't of gotten a harvest in, of it, before the movie release   LOL....
> 
> All of these pics are of the plants coming into week 7 strong


haha too bad for the movie, this bud look's like it would be *much* more entertaining than teenage vampires and werewolves 

very nice Loaded


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## wonderblunder (Nov 26, 2009)

You never seize to amaze me. Had to show my wife...... Now she is giving me guff about why "our" flower room doesn't have buds like that.... Personal favorite among us is the Twilight. They all look great....... Nice update. Happy Birthday?


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## 2much (Nov 26, 2009)

my set up is similar


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## ReAVeR (Nov 26, 2009)

I haven't laughed this hard all day..... lol


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 26, 2009)

2much...... and everyone else........ I can relate.......

[youtube]SAw9axFwzvU[/youtube]


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 26, 2009)

I have decided to start more seeds........

Widow Cindy Mother is Now Outside Permanently (flowering/dying whatever) -spidermites

Silverback Mother is Now Outside Permanently (flowering/dying whatever) -spidermites

Chemo Cindy Mother is now Oustide Permanently (Flowering) -She just Really Really wanted to flower LOL

Purple Kush Mothers have their own 400W MH

Survivors from original batch of cuttings from mothers have their own 400W MH

Twilight Mother is in Flowering Room (with other flowering ladies  ) -tied down, just because

Maui Skunk is in Flowering Room (with other flowering ladies  ) -tied down, just because

Lame Jack Herer is in Flowering Room (with other flowering ladies  ) -Not tied down, just chillin in the back corner.....

Cuttings are popping out roots Almost ready to transplant......


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## w1ckedchowda (Nov 26, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjtniSxl2zI


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## wonderblunder (Nov 26, 2009)

sounds good. SOunds like things are moving in your world as well.I am really hoping for a fem of the PK. That would make me very happy.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 27, 2009)

just so you get an idea of what I am talking about...... here is what I mean... the real squat bushy ones under the econo-wing reflector are the revegged PK...... bushy Christmas Tree under fluoros is the Jack Herer Mother with the most recent batches of JH and SB cuttings (which is pretty much ready for pots)......... the group of 5 under the "sun leaves" 400W built in ballast (on top of blue bins, next to soil) is unknown cuttings (mostly Chemo Cindy and Maui Skunk I think), I am going to be adding these ladies in with the other ladies in flower as soon as they are ready, and put seedlings under the "sun leaves" 400W,  I still want to add another 400W to the veg room.... but gotta run some numbers first..... it sure does stay warm in there...... which is fine for now, as it tops out right about 80......... but as spring and summer come I am going to have to run more numbers and tinker in there....... This has been all about the veg room and plants in there......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 27, 2009)

so the flower room looks different 

I added a Jack Herer.... and the Twilight and Maui Skunk mothers in there.... they are tied down.......


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## BlackRoses (Nov 27, 2009)

Holy shit those buds are nice tld, again great job.
I would recommend some training next time on those long cola's, an uneven canopy steals away alot of light.
Awesome job though.


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## dgk4life (Nov 27, 2009)

doh!!!!!!!!!! knew u forgot something  lol


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## wonderblunder (Nov 27, 2009)

I like how you got some f the whole room shots.... Looks so damn good.. and the next one..... sounds like a different story....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 27, 2009)

I think today will actually be the last feeding for the ladies in full flower...... they are going along full hall and we are almost at week 8 already ....... so why not celebrate week 8 by starting their flush?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 27, 2009)

I had to put 12 of the rooted Jack Herer clones into soil and pots today.... their roots were about to start to mesh together....... The rest of the Jack is right behind, probably ready for transplant tomorrow .......

the SilverBack is taking longer..... trying its best to harbor spidermites..... they will still root..... I am surprised to see both batches doing so well after they got hit by the bad Thrive Alive B1........ but they are still sucking up water faster..... I divided them up..... and gave all the cuttings a little bit of water......

And!!!!

Sensi Star Cuttings are rooting! ! !    Yay! ..... one was transplanted and is now chillin under the 400W with the Purple Kush clones  ..... the other three are right behind   I am just happy..... stoked 

Speaking of the Purple Kush Mothers...... they are getting watered today as well...... and two of the "Survivors Batch" clones will be watered as well.


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## ReAVeR (Nov 27, 2009)

sounds good, and looks great


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 27, 2009)

This all means of course, that I have to step it up on Phase 2 flowering construction!! I am pretty confident I am on schedule for that, and have all the major quirks worked out..... I will be tinkering in there here shortly... 

And thanks for the input Black Roses..... Your right about maintaining an even canopy..... the idea there is that the 4 tall ladies in the center will be harvested here in about two weeks...... opening up more top space for light to go to the outside 2 "Runner" plants (Maui Skunk and Twilight)..... and filling in the open center with shorter plants that will grow up into the open space and fill the area getting as tall as 4 1/2 feet by harvest (the outside runner plants harvested and replace approximately 2 weeks before their harvest, and slowly rotating the original flowering area into a 30 plan SOG (Im just kind of screwing around in the meantime)......... I don't need to keep the mothers over to the spring to be able to put good sized plants out for spring harvest, I can just plant more seeds.........it should work out great.... 

The new side will be filled SOG style from day 1.....


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## TCurtiss (Nov 27, 2009)

How many different strains do you have?

Sounds like a small store with a great selection if you ask me


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 27, 2009)

At the moment I have:

1.Sensi Star (Staple)

2.Purple Kush (Staple)

3.SilverBack (nnneehh... we'll see, shrugs)

4.Jack Herer (sounds good, great so far)

5.Widow Cinderella (out the window)

6.Chemo Cinderella (Fucking Amazing, Staple if Consistent)

7.Maui Skunk (Fucking Amazing, Staple if Consistent)

8.Twilight (Fucking Amazing, Staple if Consistent, and rooting cuttings works out, shrugs)

And I am very much hoping to add to the list


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 27, 2009)

And on my Wishlist...... All from Nirvana.....

Black Jack
PPP
Wonder Woman
Snow White
Blackberry
Swiss Cheese

is the price shown per seed?


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## curious old fart (Nov 27, 2009)

http://www.sanniesshop.com/index.php?
currency=USD&cPath=167&language=en&sort=products_sort_order&osCsid=4244e4ec2bd1178f3622e353a1459631

While Nirvana has some decent genetics have you looked at Sannie seeds? Prices are reasonable and service is excellant. Their genetics are wonderful. The bud in my avatar is from their Madonna as is the thumbnail. Also, have El Monstre, Blue Diesel, Lady Cane, Accidental Haze and One Chronic Diesel in veg. It's a test run, currently 1 month from seed.


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## curious old fart (Nov 27, 2009)

http://www.sanniesshop.com/index.php?currency=USD&cPath=167&language=en&sort=products_sort_order&osCsid=4244e4ec2bd1178f3622e353a1459631

See if this works any better

peace
cof


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## greenthumb111 (Nov 27, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> And Last but Not Least ........ the Twilight .....
> 
> too bad I couldn't of gotten a harvest in, of it, before the movie release   LOL....
> 
> All of these pics are of the plants coming into week 7 strong


Very nice TLD. The CC and the WC look just like what I grew especially the CC. Hope they finish well for you. Also Sannie has some fire brewing in those seeds. I agree on the canopy management if you are just growing one area but you have a rotation going so it many not hold true. Looks fine what you are doing.


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Nov 28, 2009)

Damn Dragon..you are a busy man. When you say ultimate perpetual grow you aren't messin' around. I can't believe everything you have going on.So when are you starting the book? Are you experimenting with mediums too? Everything looks amazing!!


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## wonderblunder (Nov 28, 2009)

Glad to see Wonder Woman on the list. Pics of the Twilight drove my wife nuts. Didn't you say something about women being in love with it? Sounds solid....


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 28, 2009)

Yeah for some reason women are just really heavy into Twilight.... go figure.... lol


I am not going to be experimenting with media right at the moment.... it seems I have reached a nitch where my circumstances call for the flowering of as many plants as I can as soon as possible..... so experimenting will have to wait until later... couple more flowering sets down the road.... But I am going to continue to plan for experiments I would like to do in the future.....


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## bender420 (Nov 28, 2009)

First time swinging by here, EXCELLENT JOB with the medicine. 

Its a bit late but I am pulling up a chair.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 28, 2009)

oh your still at the beginning of this journal bender420, and thanks for joining us..... the fun is really just about to start here,  

I am at the start of phase 2...... and there are roughly 10-12 phases of this journal that I hope to get accomplished over the next 2 years....... that is why its a perpetually growing, perpetual grow 

The book should be ready for release around 2015-2017...... Sadly, much of its contents won't be posted here..... but I will definitely be using these journals as future reference points and additional personal reading materials 

When I am doing the grows for the book..... I will be using very specific scientific methods, and be using quite a few different methods for recording data,


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## wonderblunder (Nov 28, 2009)

I will be buying a copy...... maybe a signed one? JK I have a new journal coming...........


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 28, 2009)

post it and I will follow


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## bender420 (Nov 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> oh your still at the beginning of this journal bender420, and thanks for joining us..... the fun is really just about to start here,
> 
> I am at the start of phase 2...... and there are roughly 10-12 phases of this journal that I hope to get accomplished over the next 2 years....... that is why its a perpetually growing, perpetual grow
> 
> ...


That sounds great brother. I have background in biochem research, so I really look forward to your book. It's some time from now but all things worth while take some time.


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## wonderblunder (Nov 28, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/278087-wonders-medical-grow-round-2-a.html#post3457988

First seat is now open!


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## DWR (Nov 28, 2009)

good shit m8.. harvest are coming along nicely...  or soon.. again.

heh... u had allot of grows in a short period.. it seems like it.. keep it up.


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## curious old fart (Nov 28, 2009)

I want a autographed first edition. Will you have it printed on hemp paper? I'll be able to say that I knew you when you were doing grow journel on rui. Looking forward to the day. Mouth watering grows.

peace
cof


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## DaGambler (Nov 29, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I am not going to be experimenting with media right at the moment.... it seems I have reached a nitch where my circumstances call for the flowering of as many plants as I can as soon as possible..... so experimenting will have to wait until later... couple more flowering sets down the road.... But I am going to continue to plan for experiments I would like to do in the future.....


i could take this out of context and still see in it that you have an idea of what you should be doing. i'm sure i could take a tip from your outdoor success ... and you might still glean something from my indoor journal. though i believe you know where you are headed. Just takes a while to get ur plant numbers up and everything in sync. And, as you already stated, an even canopy height becomes more important indoors than out - if you aren't running a vertical garden.

i envy your genetics. i'm too lazy and or cheap and or paranoid to keep ordering selections from a vendor. let me know when were gonna get that legally sanctioned and medically reknowned grow op going. Or the one that uses around 50 1k burners... ur choice. Personally i'm leaning toward the 40' by 60' modified greenhouse   
.


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 29, 2009)

the dimensions of the greenhouse I am building definitely come close to that, 40'x30'......... indoors.... yeah, so many variables, so many probabilities, possibilities etc. etc. Im ready with plenty of patients to back it whenever you get your arse over here...... perpetually growing up to it as it is


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 29, 2009)

But anyways....

Now have 2 Sensi Star clones rooted and planted in soil (one in mostly FF, and one in mostly BB, both are mixed in each), there are two cuttings left almost poking their roots out, sitting in the tray..... the two in soil are with the two PK mothers under a 400W MH...... I only plan to keep two of them as mothers..... so the other two will most likely be flowered in what I am now calling the "ghetto Jungle" side of the flowering room (what Phase 1 is turning into  )......

The rest of the cuttings are showing good strong root sets through the rockwool one at a time (by that I mean each has achieved 5 or more roots poking out the bottom as well as a couple out the sides of each cube and the roots are beginning to look farther, Everything is Perfect White  )..... I will be doing the transplants into soil in batches..... the first batch that got transplanted is gettings its first Real watering today..... Today is day 1 of veg for the batch of Jack Herer clones that went into soil a couple days ago..... I am moving them up closer to the light

I didn't feed the ladies in flower Yesterday like I said I wanted to..... finally just got to it..... 1/2 strength (2 tspn/gal) Cal Mag +, 2 gallons of this was spread to all the ladies in the flowering room (including the additions Twilight, Maui Skunk, and Jack Herer Mothers)....... Then a 2 gallon solution of Full strength Bio Bizz Bloom and Full Strength Fox Farms Tiger Bloom was spread just among the 4 flowering ladies that are deep into flower..... Watered in of course..... This serves as the last feeding for the Ladies in flower, as they are all rushing to the finish line faster than I anticipated....... Just shy of Week 8 mark, I have absolutely nothing to complain about ....... Flush here we come 



The 5 from the "survivor" batch will be bottom trimmed in a few days, taking cuttings from them and lollipopping top growth. They will probably be in the veg room another week and a half or so...... before I put them into flower in the Jungle side.......

Phase 2 Construction is getting there.... been a week since I have touched anything in there, but here I go now....


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## wonderblunder (Nov 29, 2009)

like the nickname. I am starting to figure out my outdoor grow. I will be reading your 2009 journal very thoroughly


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 29, 2009)

Seeds to be planted:

3 Chemo Cindy

3 Twilight

4 Maui Skunk

On Wednesday


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## wonderblunder (Nov 29, 2009)

Sounds like a plan, whats your seed starting technique/ process?


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 29, 2009)

same as shown in the very beginning of this journal


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## wonderblunder (Nov 30, 2009)

Alright. I had excellent success with the clones after revising my method(your tips). Saw roots 2 days sooner than the average so far... The Purple Widows were some of the first to root! Off to the flowering room she goes........ Very soon.......


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 30, 2009)

15 Jack Herers are in 5 gallon pots under the fluoescents now (5 still need a little more root growth in the cube before transplant into soil), not all of them look great after the Thrive Alive B1 incident, but they all have roots, might lose two or three of them, we will see........ 4 of the fully rooted SilverBack cuttings/clones just got added under the 400W MH with the "Survivor" batch of clones (built in unit), they are in 1 gallon pots just like the "Survivors", however the size/age difference makes it really easy to tell them apart ...... The Jack Herer Mother that was under the fluorescents got moved into the Jungle side of the flowering room..... If I can get rid of the spider mites from the SilverBack Mother, and the Widow Cindy Mother that are outside (with the help of Winter), than I will add those to the Jungle side of the flowering room when/before I harvest the ladies that are almost done flowering now..... The 2nd part of the flowering room will be able to house plants by the end of the week


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## Katatawnic (Nov 30, 2009)

Peeking in from Lurksville for a bit. 

Someone's been awfully busy! 

I refuse to blindly buy books, but I'll be more than happy to purchase one from someone I've known and whose grows I've watched!


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## ReAVeR (Nov 30, 2009)

nice, can't wait for the room addition


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 30, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> Alright. I had excellent success with the clones after revising my method(your tips). Saw roots 2 days sooner than the average so far... The Purple Widows were some of the first to root! Off to the flowering room she goes........ Very soon.......


I'm glad cloning is going easier/better for you.... however, I think having experience under your belt might play into it a good bit as well  



Katatawnic said:


> Peeking in from Lurksville for a bit.
> 
> Someone's been awfully busy!
> 
> I refuse to blindly buy books, but I'll be more than happy to purchase one from someone I've known and whose grows I've watched!


I certainly hope you would read it....... Its not JUST going to be about growing...... it should be a long read , but broken up into Sections, for easy browsing 

Im gunna see what I can do about getting pics from RIU in there (not my pics) with peoples permission etc.



ReAVeR said:


> nice, can't wait for the room addition


Got some more done in there today... a little bit at a time......  Pics in a couple days, should be shaping up by then


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## Katatawnic (Nov 30, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I certainly hope you would read it....... Its not JUST going to be about growing...... it should be a long read , but broken up into Sections, for easy browsing
> 
> Im gunna see what I can do about getting pics from RIU in there (not my pics) with peoples permission etc.


Good, I love reading, so a long read is even better! 

Other people's photos would be great to use, especially since there are certainly more techniques (training, setups, etc.) than any one person can do.  Plus, then some of your friends at RIU can not only say they knew you, but can also proudly say, "Look! That's my grow pictured in that book!"


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 30, 2009)

Exactly  Hugs...  I have written tidbits in my outdoor journal


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## theloadeddragon (Nov 30, 2009)

I think I just gave you Rep...... not sure...... clicked it...... lag.... clicked it again...... lag...... reloaded page, clicked again, and it said I have to spread more rep around???


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 1, 2009)

Forgive my cameras crappiness...... The Veg room.....


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## wonderblunder (Dec 1, 2009)

Nice TLD, Did you see the question I posted for you in Round 2?. Those are looking very good.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 1, 2009)

And Construction Pics..... I still have a lot of fine tuning to do, I know, I haven't been able to put a whole lot of time into it lately...... Eventually the whole thing will be walled in with ply wood for better insulation.... Like sometime around Jan? Feb? Slowly but surely things will perpetually grow...... Im going to take out my 6" exhaust fan and let just the 8" Run until the spring time and even then I..... Well, we'll see ...... These were taken while lights were out.....

uhhh...Wonderblunder I will go back and check it out again...... I just read it, but already forgot..... lol


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## wonderblunder (Dec 1, 2009)

Looks like you did a lot of work. Looking good....... I love your setups, Totally what I think about......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 1, 2009)

Snuck some Lights out flowering pics  Crappy Camera though..... shrugs..... Right About week 8  Time to flush those ladies 

See I am only using about half the space in the Jungle side right now...... .......


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## wonderblunder (Dec 1, 2009)

Your flowering room looks really damn good. Holy shit...... Im so stoked ofr when you get that other 1k and down to business.


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## PainWrek (Dec 1, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I'm glad cloning is going easier/better for you.... however, I think having experience under your belt might play into it a good bit as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


loaded, i'm more than willing to let you have pics from my set-up  lol

construction is coming along quite well in there.... finally starting to get my perpetual perpetually running. small bump in the road though. i was transplanting my rooted mother clones, northern lights and o.g. kush 18, went inside to clear a spot in the veg tent for the new mums. came back outside and my dogs ate them!!!! shit.  well, completely ate 1, and mauled the other so bad i still can't tell if it's the o.g. or n.l, but its recovering... good thing i have more cuttings rooting 

i wanted to ask you a question tld, i was thinking about breeding a reserva privada o.g. kush 18 female with a dutch passion blueberry male sometime next year, for some quality kushberry. would these be stable enough to breed with? any input would be much appreciated


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## bender420 (Dec 1, 2009)

Nice work Dragon, you have been putting in work. Flowering room looks beautiful.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 1, 2009)

They are stable enough to cross, but you are going to want to backcross to stabalize your new line


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## PainWrek (Dec 1, 2009)

wow. just read up on backcrossing and now i realize how complicated things really are. from what i took in, i need to cross my male blueb w/ fem o.g. then, from those seeds i select a male to cross again with the original mom. is this anywhere near right? sorry to ask simple questions on your journal..... feel like i'm in grade-school learning how to add 1+1 lol.


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## wonderblunder (Dec 1, 2009)

PainWrek said:


> wow. just read up on backcrossing and now i realize how complicated things really are. from what i took in, i need to cross my male blueb w/ fem o.g. then, from those seeds i select a male to cross again with the original mom. is this anywhere near right? sorry to ask simple questions on your journal..... feel like i'm in grade-school learning how to add 1+1 lol.


I was just trying to figure this out as well after I read TLDs comment. And then the product of those seeds would be stable? So would that strain remain clone only at that point?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 1, 2009)

sometimes genetics don't mix perfectly...... yes going back and breeding again either with the original mother or father (typically the mother, but at times it is advantageous to use the original pollen from the original father to breed with your first generation of seeds, depending on the strain and what you are going for), once you back cross you will see certain traits occur more certainly and more often per seed than your original batch...... Breeding is a whole world of its own, and I have only dabbled here and there, learning as much as I can along the way (4 successful crosses in the past, using three strains, I have done 2 back crosses, and gotten one stable strain, "lone mist", but I ran out of seeds  )......


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## bender420 (Dec 1, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> sometimes genetics to mix perfectly...... yes going back and breeding again either with the original mother or father (typically the mother, but at times it is advantageous to use the original pollen from the original father to breed with your first generation of seeds, depending on the strain and what you are going for), once you back cross you will see certain traits occur more certainly and more often per seed than your original batch...... Breeding is a whole world of its own, and I have only dabbled here and there, learning as much as I can along the way (4 successful crosses in the past, using three strains, I have done 2 back crosses, and gotten one stable strain, "lone mist", but I ran out of seeds  )......


One day when I am old and retired I might then have time and money to breed. For right now it remains a wish.


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 1, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> sometimes genetics don't mix perfectly...... yes going back and breeding again either with the original mother or father (typically the mother, but at times it is advantageous to use the original pollen from the original father to breed with your first generation of seeds, depending on the strain and what you are going for), once you back cross you will see certain traits occur more certainly and more often per seed than your original batch...... Breeding is a whole world of its own, and I have only dabbled here and there, learning as much as I can along the way (4 successful crosses in the past, using three strains, I have done 2 back crosses, and gotten one stable strain, "lone mist", but I ran out of seeds  )......


 I am with Bender on this one. I will let pros like you experiment and create the strains and then I will buy them. lol


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## PainWrek (Dec 1, 2009)

from what I read, it said (i think) , it can take 2 or 3 backcrosses to the original mum to create a 50/50 bb/og..... under what circumstances could i use the advantage of pollinating the first gen seeds with the original father? i would like to keep the o.g. stature, with some blueberry flavor. which crossing methods would achieve the results i'm looking for?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 2, 2009)

try to match the characteristics in phenotypes as closely together as you can in the two parents (large pool of say 30 plants, 15 male 15 female, pick TWO, one mother one father, that each display the characteristics you are looking for 

If the first set of seeds were to come out with traits that are dominant that are undesirable, backcross it with which ever parent showed more desirable traits (and most importantly consistency in those traits)..... sometimes it can take quite a few sets to get a stabilize strain out of just two parents......... sometimes it is necessary to bring in relative strains, or grandparent strains, etc. etc. to get the desired results


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## ReAVeR (Dec 2, 2009)

damn, that's def a whole different world... I was completely unaware of backcrossing... lol


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 2, 2009)

yes well.... the nutrient selection that seeding mother plants gets is a little different too, and a few other things..... it is a whole world inside of growing ..... and Like I said I have only dabbled on a few occasions..... soaking up as much info on the way 

I may get to do a breeding journal on here yet..... sometime at the end of 2010?


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## ReAVeR (Dec 2, 2009)

that'd be sick. have you tried Mother Plant? I was talking to the chick in my store and she said "it's the hottest new thing. only nutes specifically for mothers"


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 2, 2009)

* A few bits of info on Cannabis Breeding *

In common with orchids and prize roses, Cannabis seeds strains are grown and crossbred by botanists to create new cannabis breeds with different characteristics. The most important characteristics manipulated through crossbreeding are size of plant, bud to leaf ratio, yield, taste, effect and acclimatisation to western growing conditions.
*Sativa/Indica Differences*
There are two main varieties of Cannabis found in the world: *Cannabis sativa* and *Cannabis indica*. Cannabis sativa (the ganja variety - see below right) is a large &#8220;pine-tree like&#8221; plant with light green foliage. It is indigenous to Mexico, Columbia, Thailand, India, and Africa. 
Cannabis Indica (the hashish variety- see below left), on the other hand, is a smaller plant with wide, dark green foliage. It matures earlier and produces more potent, fatter, resinous flowers. Cannabis indica is indigenous to the high northern mountain ranges of the Afghani Hindu Kush, Pakistani Kara Korams, Russian Pamirs and Indian Himalayas.
There are many strains of each of the Cannabis varieties. 




Until the last few decades there had been very little crossbreeding of these Cannabis varieties because of this natural geographic segregation. However, in the 1960s and 70s seeds from different strains of the two varieties were collected from around the world. The strains were crossbred by fertilising isolated flowers from one variety with pollen from a strain of the other variety, creating offspring strains that were superior to the parents in terms of resistance to disease, yield, and levels of THC (the psychoactive ingredient in Cannabis), and could be grown better in northern latitudes.
*Sacred Seeds - Cannabis Crossbreeding Pioneers*
Sacred Seeds, established in 1976, was the first ever Cannabis seed company in the world. Sacred Seeds followed the practice of selecting and crossbreeding pure strains to create new strains known as &#8216;hybrids&#8217;. They then stabilized these strains to allow them to breed true to type if reproduced from seeds of the same strain. The most famous of these hybrids ever produced was Skunk No. 1, AKA "The Pure".
Sacred Seeds, and Cultivators Choice, the company that followed it, were the first companies to cross the indica and sativa varieties of Cannabis. Crossing the two varieties produced larger, healthier, more disease-resistant plants with a sweet, potent, synergistic taste and smoke.
*Hybrid*A term used to describe strains produced by crossbreeding two different &#8220;true-breeding&#8221; strains.True-breeding strains will produce true to type if reproduced from their own seeds, so different generations will share similar characteristics. True-breeding strains are either:
*Pure-breds*traditional land races that have only interbred with similar strains and so have almost identical genes*Stabilized Hybrids*Hybrids that have been created by breeders but then continually inbred until their characteristics are stabilized from generation to generation. There are very few strains of stabilized hybrids as the process takes a number of generations, over several years, to achieve.&#8220;F1&#8221; denotes that the seeds or plants have two true-breeding parents. The crossing of F1 hybrid strains produces plants whose characteristics won&#8217;t be the same as the original true-breeding parents, though they may share some. Plant quality is lost because the variation in genes is extended and making it less easy to foresee characteristics. The process is endless; F2s can be bred with other F2s creating F3s, with a further loss of quality.


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## wonderblunder (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks for the info TLD..... someday I will be giving breeding a try.....


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 2, 2009)

Let me begin with explaining the difference of home produced seeds and marijuana seeds you can buy from reputable seedbank. At home you have at most 20 plants to choose father and mother plant from. You have been watching your seed parent plants for one generation only, meaning their lifetime at your grow place. At seedbanks breeders sex and watch plants for at least 3 generations and from every generation plants which is usually around 100 plants they choose the best 10 for the next generation seeds. These way proffesional genetics become extraordinary stable, very viable and with high thc potency. Do not expect the same stability, viability and potency from your home grow marijuana seeds. But, anyway, your seeds will germinate and grow into plants you will be proud of 

http://www.1stmarijuanagrowerspage.com/ganja-dwarf-lowrider-lowryder-marijuana-seeds-strain.html 
Let's say you have 5 plants in your home grow place, one of them is male and 4 are females. You want to sacrifice the male and your most beautiful female for seed production. Remember to move away your seeds plants into a pollen tight room, because you don't want your other females to become pollinated . They must remain sinsemilla to produce nice potent buds for you.
Now when the time comes for your male to release pollen, collect it by placing a plastic sheet under male pot. Shake the male or wait a few days for pollen to fall. The male should show desirable characteristics, like fast growth, potency and resistance to pest and mold. Black paper or plastic bag can also be used to collect pollen. In a few days the paper will have quite a bit of pollen on it. The pollen can be stored in film canisters until it is needed. When your female is ready to become pollinated, use a paintbrush to brush on the pollen to the LOWER branches of the female. The female is ready around a week after the male releases pollen. The best way to be sure that all the seeds are mature before harvest is to just never harvest the female. Let your female die naturally so you can be sure it produces viable, ripe marijuana seeds for your next crop.
Your first generation of seeds can grow nice plants, but remember using the first generation to make seeds again can and will produce weak inbreed plants unless you can grow 2 separate genetic lines of parent plants.
The main thing to remember is that breeding is an art and a science. Even the most experienced breeders find it difficult to stabilize their strains. Many strains become unstable as they are bred, revealing unexpected traits that can be traced back many generations.
Professional seed breeders spend a lifetime recording every detail of plant development and post-harvest characteristics. They record growth rates, disease resistance, flowering duration, psychoactive effects. They test breeds under different conditions, trying to match genetics with environmental conditions to ensure optimum yield and health. They pick and choose favorable characteristics from different strains and then cross-breed these strains seeking to develop super-plants which have the cerebral high of a Sativa combined with the short-season hardiness, yield, height and narcotic stoniness of an Indica. Then, they seek to develop stability in their strains so purchasers can expect, within a reasonable degree of variation, predictable results crop after crop.
Breeding is a creative combination of hard work, record-keeping, horticulture and genetics, but it's worth it. Marijuana botanists have given us dozens of varieties of distinctive cannabis. You can do it too, just let them have sex


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 2, 2009)

* CANNABIS BREEDING*
SEX
In the cell core of a marijuana plant are 10 couples of chromosomes present. One of these couples will determine if the plant will be a male or a female. When the plant has two X-chromosomes it will be a female and if it has an X and Y-chromosome then it will be a male. The sex of the plant will be determined at the moment of fertilization. On this moment the female chromosomes will link with the chromosomes of the male. If the male chromosome that determines the sex of the plant is an X-chromosome then the plant will be a female and otherwise it will be a male. But the development of the plant is not completely determined by the presence of X and Y chromosomes. Also outsides circumstances can have an influence on this and because of these external circumstances a female plant can bloom like a male and visa versa. 
PROPERTIES
At the moment of fertilization the chromosomes of the female will connect with the chromosomes of the male. In this way 10 couples of chromosomes are created. On everyone of these chromosomes a number of genes a situated. The two chromosomes that make a couple have genes on the same places (loci). Such a gene on a locus consists of a property (allele). These properties (alleles) determine how the plant will look, grow, smell, bloom, and so on. If now on both chromosomes of a couple, the same property (allele) will be at the same place (locus), then the plant will show this property. In this case is said that the plant homozygous is for this property. If we have to do with different alleles then the dominant allele will determine the property while the property of the recessive allele will remain hidden. The plant is then heterozygous for this property. 
TRUE BREEDING 
If you buy a package of seeds and let nature do its way, then of course you will have offspring. And if you let these children have children, and so on........ In most cases the plants will start to look differently. Brothers and sisters will not look alike anymore. But in the event that the children continue to look like their parents we speak about a "true breeding strain". True breeding arises if the plant is homozygous on the important properties. This can happen by natural selection or by selective breeding. In both cases plants are taken away that do not meet the requirements. If the work has been done by natural selection then we talk about a "pure bred". These kind of plants then grow in a certain region. But normally we have to do with stabilized hybrids (products of crossbreeding). Known (more or less) true breeding strains that are developed by selective cultivation are: Skunk # 1, Haze and Shit. 
INBREEDING 
If you want to preserve the properties of a certain plant, very often this is done by inbreeding. By just backcrossing the children with the mother and later grandmother, these children will more and more look like the mother. After 6 times of backcrossing the plant will look very much like the (grand, grand.....) grandmother, whereas after 20 time of backcrossing the new plant will be genetically almost identical to the (grand, grand.....) grandmother. A much-made error is that growers think that in this way they will create a plant that will be on all important points homozygous and therefore true breeders. This is not the case! The plant that is created will genetically be like the (grand, grand.....) grandmother. And if this grandmother was no true breeder her offspring will also not be like this. If you want to create a stable line you need to use selective breeding for a number of generations. 
HYBRID 
By crossing two not related plants you will create a hybrid. These newly created plants are called F1. If the F1 plants are backcrossed to the mother then their offspring often will be called F2. Also F1 crossings between brothers and sisters are called F2 and sometimes even crossings between F1 plants of different lines are called F2. I presume however that, in most cases when breeders are talking about a F6, they mean by this that the plant was backcrossed for 6 generations, this to reinforce the properties of the mother. But be aware, this plant will probably not be stable. Even not if it is a F20. What you best can do is to select the plants that you like the most and use their clones for growing and blooming. 
THE STRENGTH OF THE HYBRID (HYBRID VIGOR) 
With "HYBRID VIGOR" is meant something like the strength of the hybrid. This is however only the case with a crossing of two stable plant lines (the plant is then on important properties homozygous and therefore true breeding). The F1 plants that you produce in this way will be all identical and very strong. Because of this, an enormous improvement on certain characteristics can arise. So it can be for example that these F1 plants grow much more rapidly or produce bigger buds then their parents. Another advantage of this F1 is that all plants will be identical. Selection of the best plants is of course not needed anymore. The strength of the hybrid will however decrease if you go on with breeding. A F2 is therefore qualitatively lesser then the F1. This because of the recessive alleles that nicely hided in the F1 and can come forward in the F2. Furthermore the offspring of F1 plants will no longer be identical. 
FERTILIZING 
Fertilizing the females is best done when the buds are entirely formed (but the "hairs" should still be white). In this way you get the biggest amount of seeds. When the right moment is there, it is sufficient to place one blooming male plant in the room. In the case that you only want a limited number of seeds then you can also fertilize for example one single branch. You have to gather the pollen of the male plant and put them in a paper sack. After this, you put the paper sack over a branch of a female plant and close it completely, so no pollen can escape. Shake the branch with the sack now considerable. After this you have to wait approximately for two hours before shaking the sack again. A couple hours later you can remove the sack and within two weeks you will see that the development of the seeds has started. In about three to six weeks the seeds will be ripe. A in this way fertilized branch can contain hundreds of seeds.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 2, 2009)

How to create amazing new marijuana seeds strains with a discerning palate, careful selection and some hard work.
Perhaps the most important aspect to consider in the breeding of fine quality cannabis seeds is that of selection. Selective breeding is where all of today's varieties evolved from. 
In the past, this chore was made easier by the fact that most of the commercially available herb was seeded and imported from outdoor plantations, usually near-equatorial in origin. These "land-race" Sativa varieties were the building blocks of the burgeoning domestic cannabis seeds productions of the times. 
The Indica marijuana strains (Afghan, Kush, Skunk, etc.) genetics were specially imported by West Coast interests and available to the general public around 1978. It was shortly after this time that the variance of domestic cannabis increased exponentially, as people began experimenting with crossing these two different types of pot. 
*Beginning breeding of cannabis seeds* 
The typical way to begin a breeding program is to carefully select P1 parents of pure Sativa and pure Indica marijuana seeds strains, crossing them to produce an f1 hybrid that is uniform in its phenotypic growth patterns. The next step is the crossing of the f1 type with itself, which produces a very wide variation witnessed in the f2 growth patterns and expressions. 
It is in this f2 second-generational cross and beyond that the art of selection really comes into play. There are a number of factors to consider at this point, such as what the male and female will each contribute; and most of all, what will the overall quality of the finished product be like? 
Defining a goal and constructing a plan to accomplish it is called "top-down" programming, and this "top-down" approach applies well to cannabis seeds breeding. It helps considerably to have a specific goal in mind when attempting to selectively breed a variety of ganja. This simple fact I cannot emphasize enough. 
 One must at least have an idea of what one is aiming for before beginning. For me this has little to do with plant structure and much to do with the quality of the finished product, no matter what form it is in. Having an experienced and educated palate (both mentally aesthetic and physically discernable) is key in the art of breeding fine quality cannabis strains and producing the best marijuana seeds. 
The "goal" at the center of most of my marijuana seeds breeding targets would be to replicate, as near as possible, the experiences produced by the great land-race varieties of old: Highland Oaxacan or Thai, Santa Marta or Acapulco Gold, Guerrero Green, Panama Red or Hawaiian Sativa or the hash from regions such as Lebanon, Afghanistan or Nepal. 
The indoor grow environment is too generic to fully replicate the great old legends. Therefore, it was necessary to settle for the next best thing: happy Sativa/Indica crosses that would perform well indoors. (It is interesting to note here that most of the fine land-race Sativa were hermaphroditic, though sometimes only minimally.) 
*Selection process* 
Obviously, you seek the parents that will produce the desired progeny. Paradoxically, this process requires selecting the best after they've been harvested. The solution is to keep samples from each plant of a test crop. This can be done via rooted clones from earlier cuttings, or re-greened mothers and fathers kept in a vegetative state and a high-nitrogen diet. Once you have chosen among the harvested plants, you can use the rooted cuttings for future consideration and possible breeding. 
Pollen may also be gathered and immediately stored via vacuum sealing and deep-freezing. It is crucial to vacuum seal and freeze pollen immediately after it is collected and to use stored pollen immediately after it thaws. Dry cannabis seeds also store well over indefinite periods of time in an undisturbed deep-freeze, with some desiccant. 
This process of post-harvest selection works fine for selecting desired female plants. But what about males? What is the best and most simple way to select males for breeding? Due to the fact that it is the female plants that we are ultimately familiar with, selecting males is a bit more involved. 
The process is basically the same as it is with female plants, except with males the numbers are first limited down via a process of elimination, and selections made by comparing the remainder. Selecting males also takes a little more time initially as the quality of the male is not fully determined until after the cannabi seeds it produces are grown out and tested. As one becomes more familiar with a particular strain, the specific characteristics of the desirable males become apparent. 
Ideally, the more marijuana seeds one starts with the better. This is, after all, a numbers game. I will assume that any basic breeding project starts with at least 20 different plants, from 20 viable marijuana seeds of high quality, professionally stabilized varieties. This would give a minimum of 10 male and 10 female plants hopefully sexed by two weeks into a flowering light cycle (short day/long night). Don't save on seeds, using quality marijuana seeds is essential. 
Once sexed, the process of elimination may begin. All of the females are kept and regularly examined to prevent unwanted hermaphroditism. Unwanted males and all hermaphrodites must be eliminated before they begin to shed pollen usually by the third week in the flowering cycle. The female plants need to be checked for hermaphroditism until harvest. You are on your way to produce the best cannabis seeds. 
(A quick word on "backward" hermaphrodites declared males that eventually sport female flowers as opposed to the usual female-to-male hermaphrodites. These are semi-rare occurrences, usually sterile but sometimes viable, that I have found at times to be valuable in their genetic contributions. Some of the most resinous and desirable males I have encountered exhibited this trait. This trait almost seems to guarantee against unwanted hermaphroditism in subsequent generations as it also increases the female to male ratio in its progeny.) 
*Selecting males* 
I prefer to remove all of the males from the grow-room to a separate, isolated space shortly after they declare their sex and well before they begin to shed pollen. A small space lit with simple fluorescent light will suffice for the males for the next few weeks. During this time the female buds will fatten with more flowers while your collection of males is selected down. Separation is essential to avoid unwanted pollination and unwanted cannabis seeds on females. 
I generally employ a simple process of elimination while selecting males. First, any auto-flowering or very early-declared males are eliminated. (Auto-flowering means that male flowers form regardless of light cycle timing.) This is mainly to insure against hermaphroditism or unwanted flowering traits, but also as a means to insure quality. The very early declared males have a tendency to be less desirable in terms of their contributions to the quality of the finished product. (If you are trying to specifically create an early-flowering marijuana seeds strain, then your priorities may be different.) 
Next, any male plant that grows too tall or too fast is usually eliminated. The reason for this is that most plants which dedicate so much energy to fiber production generally are best for making fiber. The exception to this rule is when an over-productive plant also exhibits a number of the desirable characteristics mentioned later. You want to breed marijuana seeds for buds not fiber plants. 
The next criteria for elimination is borrowed from Michael Starks' book, Marijuana Potency, and involves stem structure. Large, hollow main stems are sought while pith-filled stems are eliminated. Backed by years of observation, I agree that hollow stems do seem to facilitate THC production. You want that in your cannabis seeds. 
Another consideration is the type of floral clusters that develop. Even on males, clusters which are tight, compact and yet very productive are desired over an airy, loose structure. Very important for potent marijuana seeds bred. These observations are most notable in the indoor environment. Outdoors, the differences in stem and floral structures are more difficult to discern. 
The next and perhaps most important characteristic to examine for quality marijuana seeds production is that of odor, flavor and trichome development. Again, the females will prove themselves by their finished product, but the males are a bit trickier. 
I usually begin with a Sativa female and an Indica male. It has been my observation that the females primarily contribute the type of flavor and aroma and the males contribute the amount of flavor and odor. The "Sativa/Indica" aspects of this formula are mainly apparent in the P1 or very early filial crosses (to about f3). Beyond the f3 marijuana seeds plant generation the apparent "Sativa/Indica" ratio in a given individual is less important than the odor/flavor and trichome development aspects it exhibits. Therefore, one of the main aspects to consider when selecting a male for cannabis seeds breeding is the depth of its aroma and flavor. (If you are seeking to develop a low-odor indoor cannabis seeds strain you might wish to begin with a low-odor Sativa male and an Indica female.) 
With the remaining males I usually employ an odor/flavor test. Using males at least two or three weeks into the flowering cycle (and preferably beyond if a separate, isolated space is being used), a sort of "scratch-and-sniff" technique is first employed. With clean, odor-free fingers, gently rub one plant at a time, on the stem where it is well developed and pliable, above the woody part and below the developing top (approximately at the spot where a clone would be cut). The newer leaves at their halfway point of development may also be rubbed and sniffed. 
These are the places that the earliest chemical signatures of a developing plant present themselves, and it is our intent to gently disturb these chemicals and inspire an odor/flavor reaction on the fingers and on the plant. By examining these various aromas in this way one may be able to determine certain desirable (and also undesirable) cannabis seeds characteristics. After clearing one's palate and refreshing one's fingers, another plant may be tested. 
The finalists are best compared for at least a week and at different times of day, to determine who performs best over a period of time. 
A few of the "good" aromas which I have found to be associated with both male and female high quality cannabis seeds strains are: sweet, floral, fruity, berry, wine/brandy, other savory spirits, skunky and spearmint. Some of the "bad" aromas associated with both male and female cannabis marijuana seeds plants are: grassy, chlorophyll (green), celery, parsley, carrots, cinnamon, pepper-mint or wintergreen, gear-oil and gasoline. Some of the aromas that are considered "good" from females but not necessarily from males are: woody, cedar, pine, citrus, tropical fruit, chocolate, vanilla, coffee, garlic and astringent. 
*Worldwide weed* 
It is sad that due to the Unfortunate State of Assholes in the world today we cannabis seeds breeders and herbalists are treated criminally. Sad because given saner times we would be able to produce vast amounts of fine quality herb by virtue of no more than the great outdoors, large numbered populations and trial and error. 
Someday perhaps, but in the meantime I have few alternate suggestions. Holland, Denmark, Switzerland, Spain and other parts of Europe are opening up more and more toward herbal tolerance. It is relatively easy in these places to score some high quality product. 
It is advisable for the newbie to a scene to buy many small samples of herbals at first until one finds what one likes. Just like in any other travel situation, special surprises await those willing to venture out from the centralized tourist areas (except in Christiania where "one stop shopping" is greatly enjoyed). 
I am willing to bet that some of the many herbal "sweet spots" around the globe may once again be producing their specialties and quality marijuana seeds strains. I am eager to verify any rumor of such possibilities. These sweet spots would include many equatorial and near equatorial regions such as Colombia, Highland Mexico, parts of Thailand, Burma and Bhutan to name a few. Places such as Nepal and Jamaica have been ideal for herbal expeditions as well. These are some of the places one could venture in search of educating one's herbal palate and expanding one's experience. 
*Constant testing* 
After selections are made, it is also necessary to remember to test for these qualities across a number of clone and cannabis seeds generations. Do the desirable characteristics present in a new plant (from marijuana seed) persist through the following clone generations of that plant? Does the plant from clones of the original carry the same odor/flavor quality? The same potency? Overall desirability? The answers most definitely need to be "yes" if that individual is to be considered for future breeding of desired quality cannabis seeds strain. 
With much practice and years of experience it becomes apparent to those with a sensitive palate which individuals possess the most desirable characteristics from a given sample. I suggest that your taste and smell be augmented with the use of an illuminated magnifier, either 30X, 60X or 100X power will do. 
Look at the same aforementioned spot on the stem or developing leaves any time after the second week in the bud cycle and look for the greatest abundance of developing trichomes or secretory hairs (hairs that secrete fluid obvious at 30X and above magnification). More fully developed trichomes with very clear heads are generally the most desirable for potent marijuana seeds breeding. 
These observations need to be done over a period of time (that is, not just a one-time look) and at different times of the day to determine which individuals perform best. Many various phenomena become apparent to those who are able to pay close attention over a period of time. To that effect I suggest you compile and composite detailed notes on one's observations, and to compare those notes over time. Detailed, comprehensive notes are the hallmark of any successful cannabis seeds breeding program. 
It is possible to test males by smoking or otherwise consuming them. This practice may be somewhat beneficial to beginners as it does involve a sort of obvious discretion. I suggest using only fresh tips, properly cured and rolled into a joint. Also, make sure that this test smoke is the first smoke one consumes in a day in order to best discern its qualities, or lack thereof. 
*Some other aspects to consider* 
There are a number of aesthetic considerations to consider regarding fine quality cannabis seeds breeding, such as color, overall structure, growth patterns and various bouquets. My primary goal involves finding the finished product with the most desirable and pleasant effects. So I focus on those aspects and stabilize them first. Once stabilized, a backcross or a cross to another variety may be utilized to further improve the line and/or increase vigor of the marijuana seeds strain, if necessary. 
On the experimental level the finished product is expected to be either pleasant or powerful, depending on the individual, also marijuana seeds should be easy to germinate. I prefer an herb that is pleasantly powerful or powerfully pleasant! So that is the sought-after goal. The range of experiences elicited by cannabis can vary from bliss to panic to stupefying. I much prefer the bliss aspects. 
The best descriptive dichotomy in this case would be comfort vs. discomfort. I also suppose some personality types may enjoy a more exciting experience perhaps only once in awhile a feeling somewhat akin to the entertainment of a roller coaster ride or a horror movie. 
Cannabis is unusual in its varying effects on our vascular-circulatory system. Some cannabis seeds strains seem to act as a vasodilator and others as a vasoconstrictor. A vasoconstrictor is a substance that constricts blood vessels. It tends to elicit tension, excitement, anxiety, and even panic. A vasodilator is a substance that dilates blood vessels and tends to relax a person more easily into a blissful state. Therefore, I tend to prefer cannabis seed strains that seems to act as a vasodilator, simply not to the point of couch lock sedation. 
I have nothing against powerfully stony herb marijuana seeds strains. It is just that as long as my breeding space is limited, I will choose to work with the more pleasant cannabis seeds varieties those that elicit a generally happy experience. Someday I look forward to working at stabilizing many different varieties of herb. After all, to each their own. 
Tinnitus and dyskinesia are common symptoms of a vasoconstrictor reaction. Tinnitus is ringing in the ears, and dyskinesia, in this instance, is usually felt as a tingling in the extremities, especially the little fingers, toes and ears. Another bad sign would be any form of tension headache or unwanted body load. If these symptoms occur regularly after indulging in a particular herb, the herb may be contributing to the sensation. 
Good Luck and may your work produce the best cannabis seeds to spread all over the world!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 2, 2009)

yes well.... the nutrient selection that seeding mother plants gets is a little different too, and a few other things..... it is a whole world inside of growing ..... and Like I said I have only dabbled on a few occasions..... soaking up as much info on the way 

I may get to do a breeding journal on here yet..... sometime at the end of 2010?


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## PainWrek (Dec 2, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> yes well.... the nutrient selection that seeding mother plants gets is a little different too, and a few other things..... it is a whole world inside of growing ..... and Like I said I have only dabbled on a few occasions..... soaking up as much info on the way
> 
> I may get to do a breeding journal on here yet..... sometime at the end of 2010?


well i just soaked up a lot of information..... thanks loaded .... i think i'll get started on it mid 2010, just don't have the extra space right now, and def need get more acquainted and knowledgeable on the subject


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 2, 2009)

*Preparation* is key, and it just may be one of *the* most crucial aspects required for great success 

I added another 400W MH (Sunburst switchable ballast built in unit, with a Ushio conversion bulb) to the veg room today (making it 3 400W MH now), and I took the old 6 inch exhaust fan out of the Jungle side of the flowering room and put it in the veg room, I need to find a cord and then I can mount a circulation fan up in an apposing corner. I have been told many a time by many different people (all at the same place unfortunately) that Ushio bulbs far outperform all other competing HID lamp bulbs both in spectral distribution and output, when used with appropriate ballast hood etc. ..... what I can say from firing it up and letting it go for a while is, It lives up to what people have said about it. I have plants under it, so we will see how they grow compared to the other two bulbs etc I am using,  ...... I will get pics of it all in the not too far off future


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 3, 2009)

to illustrate what I said earlier bout the veg area..... those clones don't look good ...... damn Thrive Alive incident, not as many may survive as I thought ...... its ALL good though.... Look at the difference between the 2 Purple Kush plants, one got the Thrive Alive, the other didn't! Look at the difference! lol....... so anyways..... a couple things and one day at a time..... some of the ladies in veg are ready for water (under the 2 400W MH) some for veg nutes (the Purple Kush), and the cuttings are getting a tiny bit of Good New Thrive Alive....... the PK is getting a 1/4 strength dose of Bio Bizz Fish Mix, or whatever,...........


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 3, 2009)

got a little bit more done in there...... I should be on schedule to get flowering in there real soon ....... CO2 is going to be part of phase 3 I Thinks


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 3, 2009)

and the ladies in flower...... the ones that are almost done will get watered tomorrow, there will be a 1/2 strength feeding of BBB in with it though , then a good Flush the watering after that ..... breathing a sigh that there will be space in there soon to add more plants..... depressed that the plants in veg can't keep up to stalk to flowering rooms, because of that damn Thrive Alive....... DONT LEAVE YOUR NUTES OUTSIDE TO FREEZE!


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## ReAVeR (Dec 3, 2009)

nice......those ladies really packed since last week....


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## dgk4life (Dec 3, 2009)

lookin good loaded.. unfortunately i was on track to handle all my shit but i have surgery scheduled now.. it effects my harvest date plus my cloning date and transplanting date and everyhting else.. grrrrrr fuckin cancer tell ya what its a inconveinance


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## bender420 (Dec 3, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> and the ladies in flower...... the ones that are almost done will get watered tomorrow, there will be a 1/2 strength feeding of BBB in with it though , then a good Flush the watering after that ..... breathing a sigh that there will be space in there soon to add more plants..... depressed that the plants in veg can't keep up to stalk to flowering rooms, because of that damn Thrive Alive....... DONT LEAVE YOUR NUTES OUTSIDE TO FREEZE!


Looking terrific brotha, they put on some size since i last saw. Great Job.



dgk4life said:


> lookin good loaded.. unfortunately i was on track to handle all my shit but i have surgery scheduled now.. it effects my harvest date plus my cloning date and transplanting date and everyhting else.. grrrrrr fuckin cancer tell ya what its a inconveinance


I am extremely sorry to hear about your illness brother. Hope everything works out well for you. As hard as it is, do your best to stay positive.


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## dgk4life (Dec 3, 2009)

bender420 said:


> Looking terrific brotha, they put on some size since i last saw. Great Job.
> 
> 
> 
> I am extremely sorry to hear about your illness brother. Hope everything works out well for you. As hard as it is, do your best to stay positive.


 thanks bro i keep my head up just bummin cause what i thought i had weeks to do now i only got days check out my threads and comment just to not hijack loadeds


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## bender420 (Dec 3, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> thanks bro i keep my head up just bummin cause what i thought i had weeks to do now i only got days check out my threads and comment just to not hijack loadeds



Will do brotha.


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## Katatawnic (Dec 3, 2009)

*dgk4life*, my thoughts and well wishes are with you! 

*TLD*... lots of in depth breeding info!  I only got to scan through it a bit, but I bookmarked those posts in my "must read" list.  My son and I were discussing what little we know about breeding cannabis just a few days ago, and he's going to love the *long* email he's about to receive from me... a copy/paste of your posts! Thank you for all the info you provide! 

(And yes, this is me working on making a point to lurk less and post more!  )


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 3, 2009)

well thank you I appreciate it ...... that is why I am here on RIU..... the PEOPLE ..... after all, its the people that make the place......

I just got done putting a batch of 9 SilverBack rooted cuttings into soil, they are all under the 2 400W MH with the "suspected" Maui Skunk and Chemo Cindy (at least that is what I hope they are lol......) and 2 Jack Herers replaced two that were dead ..... damn Thrive Alive incident! I have about 8 Jack herers that look garunteed though, so ..... the rest..... we'll see...... I got a bad smoke report on some SilverBack that some one grew..... making me a bit nervous about all the clones I have....... I have looked and looked, and can't find info on it anywhere......

Though there was a grower/breeder that was nicknamed SilverBack..........so.....??? we'll see...... I heard GREAT things about the Jack herer, even yield wise, which makes me even more upset about the Thrive Alive incident..... I should have known better....... I did know better, I just did it anyways....... hope people can use this as a learning experience, as it is costing me more than you know.......


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## bender420 (Dec 3, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> well thank you I appreciate it ...... that is why I am here on RIU..... the PEOPLE ..... after all, its the people that make the place......
> 
> I just got done putting a batch of 9 SilverBack rooted cuttings into soil, they are all under the 2 400W MH with the "suspected" Maui Skunk and Chemo Cindy (at least that is what I hope they are lol......) and 2 Jack Herers replaced two that were dead ..... damn Thrive Alive incident! I have about 8 Jack herers that look garunteed though, so ..... the rest..... we'll see...... I got a bad smoke report on some SilverBack that some one grew..... making me a bit nervous about all the clones I have....... I have looked and looked, and can't find info on it anywhere......
> 
> Though there was a grower/breeder that was nicknamed SilverBack..........so.....??? we'll see...... I heard GREAT things about the Jack herer, even yield wise, which makes me even more upset about the Thrive Alive incident..... I should have known better....... I did know better, I just did it anyways....... hope people can use this as a learning experience, as it is costing me more than you know.......



Hey bro, I doubt it was the strain. Most likely not grown properly. 

I had some Silver Back Guerrilla recently it was as good as it had some time. 

It had a good bit of Afghani smell to it.

Don't worry bout the clones, I am sure they will turn out good under your.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 3, 2009)

thanks for the support...... they are going to be flowered one way or another........ bout time to take more cuttings  I want to try and get them off the Maui skunk and Twilight in the Flowering room (the mothers on the jungle side) primarily, and take some PK and Chemo Cindy cuttings soon after (in the next couple days)........ I now have room to plant seeds ...... get that going maybe tomorrow or the day after


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## bender420 (Dec 3, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> thanks for the support...... they are going to be flowered one way or another........ bout time to take more cuttings  I want to try and get them off the Maui skunk and Twilight in the Flowering room (the mothers on the jungle side) primarily, and take some PK and Chemo Cindy cuttings soon after (in the next couple days)........ I now have room to plant seeds ...... get that going maybe tomorrow or the day after


Good plan man, looking forward to more progress. Lets see some pix man.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 3, 2009)

no problem , these pics were taken right after they were watered 

the plant that measures approximately 12" by 12" is what I am hoping is Chemo Cindy....... the PK sure does like to bush out


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## wonderblunder (Dec 4, 2009)

You let them get boney dry. I have been doing that, really helping the bug control. Cinnamon is going into my next soil mix.........


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 4, 2009)

oh not quite bone dry...... those two larger clones just discovered the bottom of the pots  thats why they are drooping, that and yeah they needed some water, and air circulation in the room could definitely be better


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## wonderblunder (Dec 4, 2009)

yea I hear you I have been a little negligent.....


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 4, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> no problem , these pics were taken right after they were watered
> 
> the plant that measures approximately 12" by 12" is what I am hoping is Chemo Cindy....... the PK sure does like to bush out


Set-up is comming together. You have to start with a plan and it always great to see a plan come together,


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## PainWrek (Dec 4, 2009)

lookin cherry in there.......


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## wonderblunder (Dec 4, 2009)

Yea, I hear ya.....


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## Jerry Garcia (Dec 4, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> Cinnamon is going into my next soil mix.........


I used cinnamon in a previous grow and it worked wonders on the ants that found they're way into my plants. They HATE that stuff. I just top dressed a little and watered it in...


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## ReAVeR (Dec 4, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> You let them get boney dry.


same here....gonna go say goodmorning to my wilted babies now...


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## wonderblunder (Dec 4, 2009)

Is anybody else having problems with RIU?


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## dgk4life (Dec 4, 2009)

what? problems? this site? no way !!!!!!!!! lmao yeah bro idk whats goin on but i think im gonna stay off for a few days and see if its fixed on monday...


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## wonderblunder (Dec 4, 2009)

New interface, What the fuck........


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 5, 2009)

I wasn't able to log in at all yesterday.... it sucked..... I got 2 blue dream clones to mother ..... and a new camera to try out.....


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 5, 2009)

was't able to upload pictures earlier..... here we go again.... new camera.... 

Nope.... still not letting me load pics


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 5, 2009)

......... LOL .......

yeah stick with grow big for this grow..... that is what you used in veg right? and if I remember correctly you are using Happy Frog with ammendments? 10-2-1..... and what nutrient is that (the bat guano? Definitely more than you need using alongside the other FF products) a nutrients source materials, source materials locations, and processing/storage methods are what make the biggest difference in whether or not you should use it, or especially mix it with other nutrients. Stick with the FF for now instead of the guano..... make sure your water quality and media temps/moisture/oxygen/ph levels are where they should be..... I have noticed that after approximately 6-8 weeks of use, most soils and even coco or other media need a little doctoring, or a little extra care in maintenance, because the roots truly eat away the media, breaks down and changes the soil composition, and plays a part in adjusting the oxygen:moisture:biological activity ratios, it sucks up micro nutrients in ratio to macro nutrients a bit faster from week 4 to week 7 in flower, and still requires a well balance mineral content (both active and inactive)..... as the roots "work" or "eat" at the media, these mineral levels change (in ratio to other present media/compound molecules), the microbiological environment also changes due to mineral fluctuations, water quality content and temperature etc. fluctuations, chemical introductions via FF nutrient products and biological biproducts, and ph fluctuations from area to area of media/soil..... this allows for the rather unfortunate event of salts from the FF nutrients being allowed to somewhat solidify or "clump up" as the media dries creating unhealthy salt deposits, and other imbalances in the media..... like I said, doctoring....
Using a LIGHT flushing technique followed by an application of Fox Farms Big Bloom plays a big part in this doctoring...... as well as organic based Cal Mag enhancers and/or micro blast, while skipping a normal macro nutrient feeding to allow for the actual balancing to occur, and feeding with an instant soluble such as Bio Bizz Bloom the watering after instead, to insure that the microboilogical environment has enough food to stabalize itself while still providing enough for the plant after LIGHTLY flushing out some of the salt build up.... This means that there is a ratio of media to water to nutrient concentration (or amount) added to mixture level (including oxygenization) that has to be in a certain balance area in order to provide for a truly healthy root uptake environment, without stimulating excessive root growth (we are talking about flowering here  )........ hope this hasn't been too difficult to sort through..... hope it helps...... I am not saying you should necessarily do Anything in particular, but I am saying that keeping these things in mind while making your decisions in what to do will make a difference...... as I honestly haven't followed your grow close enough to say for sure, and even then, you are THERE, not me......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 6, 2009)

just going to see if it will work.... if it does you will see a couple room shots, and the last two pics are the Jack Herers......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 6, 2009)

Yay It works  ......

Some Widow Cindy.......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 6, 2009)

And Why not some Chemo Cindy pictures too eh?

She Stinks Stinks Stinks! Most overpowering smell of the whole bunch! (Widow Cindy does smell pretty good, kind of like a sour fruit bowl.... just not as strong, pungent)

She sure is getting close


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 6, 2009)

And Twilight of course, , one of her branches broke while I was moving things around and taking pictures. It was a branch from the lower mid section, smells good, its rock solid, sticky, , Im looking forward to trying it .......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 6, 2009)

And Last but certainly not least........ smells like pinapple, but its Maui SKunk    

Coming close to the tail end here for those four plants, all the plants are about a week from harvest 

Then there will be room for me to put more in there .......


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## PainWrek (Dec 6, 2009)

damn loaded, i think saying that the new camera fuckin rocks would be putting it lightly...... someone's snap-happy....


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## Bublonichronic (Dec 6, 2009)

thats what i call bud porn, and i gotta get me some of that Bio-Bloom..its 100% organic? anyways lookin dank as always, monster nuggs, and yea thats a badass camera too


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## notoriousb (Dec 6, 2009)

Bublonichronic said:


> thats what i call bud porn, and i gotta get me some of that Bio-Bloom..its 100% organic? anyways lookin dank as always, monster nuggs, and yea thats a badass camera too


I'm using Bio-Bloom too and they say it's OMRI organic certified so I dont think it gets much more organic than that 

how are you doing your feedings tho TLD? I mean what's your mixture rate of Bio-Bloom to the Hi Brix molasses since BBB already has molasses? stoked your running the same nutes as me so I get a ballpark feel for what to expect


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## wonderblunder (Dec 6, 2009)

All of those looks absolutely amazing. How do you do this..... Guess I will have to wait and read your book. Im starting to wonder why I like Twilight the most?


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## Mammath (Dec 6, 2009)

Very nice mate.


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## bender420 (Dec 6, 2009)

Wow, great work man. Thank your for the terrific pictures. Maui Skunk is my favorite, it looks quite delicious.


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## wonderblunder (Dec 6, 2009)

what kind of camera?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 6, 2009)

Nikon CoolPix S220 with the rechargeable battery,3x zoom...... Ima get an even better one further down the road. I was skeptical of it at first..... but now I am sure that with some practice, I will get it down better..... I took 300 pics, and the ones that I posted were the best of them.......


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## wonderblunder (Dec 6, 2009)

Nice, always takes a little time to figure out technology. Nice. Pics were definitely good quality. Breaktime's over Back to work in the grow room.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 6, 2009)

PainWrek said:


> damn loaded, i think saying that the new camera fuckin rocks would be putting it lightly...... someone's snap-happy....


$140...... worth it I think  thanks...... its about time! lol



Bublonichronic said:


> thats what i call bud porn, and i gotta get me some of that Bio-Bloom..its 100% organic? anyways lookin dank as always, monster nuggs, and yea thats a badass camera too


Its as organic as they come  A few pages back I posted some links to their website, and some general info about them



notoriousb said:


> I'm using Bio-Bloom too and they say it's OMRI organic certified so I dont think it gets much more organic than that
> 
> how are you doing your feedings tho TLD? I mean what's your mixture rate of Bio-Bloom to the Hi Brix molasses since BBB already has molasses? stoked your running the same nutes as me so I get a ballpark feel for what to expect


Yeah, they are OMRI Organic certified (though I am not sure it applies to ALL their products, maybe, but I am not sure), but that isn't the focus of their advertising (you notice by label design, website design etc.) its their results that sell their products, when I first tried it they were highly recommended, so I looked into it, made sense, and I tested this and that...... yield wise, not the best product...... but Taste, Resin Production, and plant vigor and health are seriously boosted by their Bloom, and Top Max increases calyx production (but only slightly and I am still deciding on its worth).

The Hi Brix is fed separately (tonight or tomorrow actually) than the bio bizz bloom.... I have been instructed that its not good to mix separate molasses products together in the same feedings, supposedly it can be very harmful to the plant....... so I will use the hi brix, and then the bio bloom and then just flush the medium one last time before harvest (I just flushed them a couple days ago). Expext good things my friend  



wonderblunder said:


> All of those looks absolutely amazing. How do you do this..... Guess I will have to wait and read your book. Im starting to wonder why I like Twilight the most?


I don't do it......... the plants do it ...... the soil and the nutes and the water and the light and LIFE! etc......... where there is a will there is a way 



Mammath said:


> Very nice mate.


Thanks Mam, Great to see you around 



bender420 said:


> Wow, great work man. Thank your for the terrific pictures. Maui Skunk is my favorite, it looks quite delicious.


Smells very very good in there now (and all around too  )

Maui Skunk is my favorite- Sour Pineapple skunky smell, with a sweet overtone....

Next Favorite is the Chemo Cindy- Toxic Sour Stinky Stanky Danky goodness .....

Twilight is very....... shy? with her smell, very light, sweet, it is very sweet, just a hint earthy, reminds me of strait watermelon .... but her smell SEEPS into and among the smells of the other plants......

The Widow Cindy smells like a spicey pungent fruit bowl, a little heavy on the cirtus, but the other fruits are Definitely there.....

and just outside the door, right when you open it, despite the smell wafting around the area, you are hit with a wall of almost overwhelming DANK! The smells of all the plants are intertwined, meshed and mixed, rising and falling..... they become one smell...... and you are taken aback by it for a good few seconds, feel almost like your not breathing air at all, like you need to catch your breathe , so you breathe deep a few times In and out in and out.... filling your lungs you taste the scents in your mouth, your mouth waters, increasing the taste in your mouth...... and you step into the room .......


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## dgk4life (Dec 6, 2009)

How come riu wont let me post pics today?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 6, 2009)

not letting me right now either...... I just tried.....


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## wonderblunder (Dec 6, 2009)

The reason i say that about the Twilight is how you said it is a favorite among the females.....


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 7, 2009)

keep on trying....... still unable to upload pics!


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## bender420 (Dec 7, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> keep on trying....... still unable to upload pics!



Fuck it, will give it a shot tomorrow.


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 7, 2009)

bender420 said:


> Fuck it, will give it a shot tomorrow.


 
I singed out and back in because was getting all kinds of weird shit going on, but when I did I could post pics

Let me see if I can post a pic on here


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 7, 2009)

It works, it just takes a while. I have an upgrade modem, that might be the difference.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 7, 2009)

its all RIU.... bunch of people have had issues uploading pics in the last week....... hopefully the bugs get worked out and everything returns to normal here really soon....... as pics pile up, and not just my pics...... everyones pics, and then they all want to upload pics as soon as they can........ lag..... lol...... I think I may have found the cure for the Silverback and WC that went outside, the cure for their spidermites...... SNOW!


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## wonderblunder (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm feeling 0 degrees (without windchill) this morning..... Little to chilly for me gals..


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## PainWrek (Dec 7, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> its all RIU.... bunch of people have had issues uploading pics in the last week....... hopefully the bugs get worked out and everything returns to normal here really soon....... as pics pile up, and not just my pics...... everyones pics, and then they all want to upload pics as soon as they can........ lag..... lol...... I think I may have found the cure for the Silverback and WC that went outside, the cure for their spidermites...... SNOW!


freeze those little bastards eh?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 7, 2009)

yeah.... lol...


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## notoriousb (Dec 7, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> yeah.... lol...


how much did you guys get loaded?

we got about 8 inches here. got a good workout in shoveling my long ass driveway ha


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 7, 2009)

hehe.... just 4 inches ........ lets see if I can upload pics yet..... Yay! I can!  here is the twilight bud that broke off a couple days ago (pics taken yesterday morning)


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 7, 2009)

A little veg update..... 

The Blue Dream clones that I got were in 2 cup containers (they were stretched from growing under 80W of 4' tube fluorescent bulbs, approximately 6-8" from canopy to bulb), I transplanted them today into 5 gallon pots...... they will love their new home ....... I put them with the Purple Kush under the 400W MH (econowing)...... speaking of the PK, I took 12 cuttings from the more lush (darker green) Purple Kush plant, the area that I took the cuttings from is outlined by a red box in one of the pics. You can see the cuttings lined up in a humidity dome in another pic.

Everything got watered today , and I labeled the unknown clones from the Survivor batch, because they are almost ready for bottom trimming, and I am going to clone them  (and once I flower them I will know what they are  )...... I transplanted the two I believe to be Chemo Cindy's into 5 gallon pots.... the other three (which I hope are Maui Skunk) are right behind them, they will be ready for transplant in the next couple of days. I gave the two Purple Kush plants Bio Bizz Fish Mix, hopefully this will aid in reviving the discolored PK plant. Slow progress in there..... I am battling the elements! Freezing temps (Huge Single Pane Windows!), dry air, bad circulation, the exhaust fan I put in there takes too much too fast...... Still haven't planted that batch of seeds yet...... maybe tomorrow? wait I said Wednesday LOL 

Gunna get a couple small space heaters and circulating fans (as my main veg circulating fan died.....)

I also gave the cuttings (all the cuttings) half strength in tray feeding of new bottle of Thrive Alive B1.....


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 8, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> A little veg update.....
> 
> The Blue Dream clones that I got were in 2 cup containers (they were stretched from growing under 80W of 4' tube fluorescent bulbs, approximately 6-8" from canopy to bulb), I transplanted them today into 5 gallon pots...... they will love their new home ....... I put them with the Purple Kush under the 400W MH (econowing)...... speaking of the PK, I took 12 cuttings from the more lush (darker green) Purple Kush plant, the area that I took the cuttings from is outlined by a red box in one of the pics. You can see the cuttings lined up in a humidity dome in another pic.
> 
> ...


 
Man you have your hands full, but it looks like you can handle it. Happy to see you can upload pics again.. I was the kid that looked at the pictures first then went back and read the book

Hey if you haven't got your heaters yet and there is a costco near you, they have oscilating heaters with auto thermostate for like 30 bucks. I use one and it keeps my room at 76 deg. It isn't as cold here as you are dealing with though..like mid 20's here, but when lights are on it runs for like 5 mins and off for 10-15..I am not sure when the lights go out.

Hey maybe you can answer a quick question for me. If my bag seed babies are showing hairs, how confident can I be that they are girls? I am thinking about cloning cuttings too to make sure, but they have are almost 7 weeks old and one definatley has hairs on the highest node. The others haven't shown anything yet. As you know I use a screen and would hate to have to cut one out if it grew ballslol


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 8, 2009)

in that case I would clone for sex as soon as they are large enough to give their bottom most branches, but for now all you can really do is wait......... should show sex anytime (by the looks of your pics in your journal), slightly shortening the photoperiod may help induce preflowering ...... but if you took clones to show for sex now, the plant would show sex by the time the cuttings rooted and showed sex..... unless you want cuttings anyways....... so many different ways to think about it


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 8, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> in that case I would clone for sex as soon as they are large enough to give their bottom most branches, but for now all you can really do is wait......... should show sex anytime (by the looks of your pics in your journal), slightly shortening the photoperiod may help induce preflowering ...... but if you took clones to show for sex now, the plant would show sex by the time the cuttings rooted and showed sex..... unless you want cuttings anyways....... so many different ways to think about it


Sweet! That is what I wanted to hear. I agree, by the time I cut/rooted clones and a week in 12/12 they should all show. Unless they root while under 12/12. There is one that looks to me like a girl.. I'll post a pic tomorrow and you can check it out for me


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 8, 2009)

Patients pays my friend......... though I suppose you might call me a hypocryte in terms of that...... I just chopped Maui Skunk and Twilight...............  ........


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 8, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Patients pays my friend......... though I suppose you might call me a hypocryte in terms of that...... I just chopped Maui Skunk and Twilight...............  ........


Man you are a fast replier  I saw that, that is why I thought I would ask you


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## bender420 (Dec 8, 2009)

Dang Dragon, as much as I want to follow what your are doing, it's difficult, i can only imagine how much work you actually have to do. You are one motivated dude.


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## wonderblunder (Dec 8, 2009)

Sounds like things are a going. I have no idea whats going on in my grow room right now. You reallly must have a lot of work to do in there. 
I have lots on my mind in the world of growing.... That pic looks delicious.... thats whats on my mind.

I will def clone my PKs for sex once they get big enough. Like your thinking there.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 8, 2009)

Twilight.....


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## wonderblunder (Dec 8, 2009)

Very nice. Twilight....


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## dgk4life (Dec 8, 2009)

oh we can post pics today ?? k im a try now


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 8, 2009)

I like the Maui Skunk more.....


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## PainWrek (Dec 8, 2009)

damn that maui skunk is looking straight PROPER


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 8, 2009)

just smoked a bowl of the twilight (popcorn nug from bottom), and I am REALLY baked......


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## greenthumb111 (Dec 8, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> just smoked a bowl of the twilight (popcorn nug from bottom), and I am REALLY baked......


Hey TLD both those lookin really dank. You did a good job as always.


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## genuity (Dec 8, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Twilight.....







nice


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 9, 2009)

thank you very much..... can't be too terribly busy if I am screwing around making pyramids ...... Like this one of the Twilight,  , looking like dry weight is going to be around 2 1/2 oz's 

Nothing going on in the grow in particular right now...... Widow Cindy got the chop...... Leaving Chemo Cindy as the last one of the original four left...... and Damn...... She Reeks ....... the Fruit Bowl (WC) is hang drying, a real bitch to trim, she smells and looks really dank  double  I will take pics of it when I box her.......


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## wonderblunder (Dec 9, 2009)

You got some nice looking buds. How do you feel about the yield? I got lots of work done. Transplants. I hear what you are saying about putting them straight into big pots because transplants make a mess, and I end up doing it very often.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 9, 2009)

Yield......... I am stoked about the yield! .... looks like 3 1/2 - 4 oz'es (on the low side  ) off of the Maui Skunk.... Decided to make a Maui Gold Pyramid! LOL.... I was saying the other day that the Maui Skunk smells like skunky sour pineapple with a sweet overtone..... then my wife brings home this pineapple with this tag later that evening....... Fate is what I call it LOL 

Looks like about 2 zips on the Widow Cindy to be on the real sare side, and another 2 1/2 on the Chemo Cindy (again on the lower side of final weight guess)....... so that would be......

Twilight- 2 1/2
Maui Skunk- 4
Widow Cindy (topped)- 2
Chemo Cindy- 2 1/2

So that would be 11 zips total when my goal was 8 with them, and this is not including the other WC that I took early (which yielded a zip of really premie nugs, like 5 weeks premie), so if I let that go it would be around 13 zips..... But 11 is Excellent considering these are Throw Away plants that I attempted to abuse! .... I expect higher yields off of the mothers that are in there now ......

I AM STOKED STONED!


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## dgk4life (Dec 9, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Yield......... I am stoked about the yield! .... looks like 3 1/2 - 4 oz'es (on the low side  ) off of the Maui Skunk.... Decided to make a Maui Gold Pyramid! LOL.... I was saying the other day that the Maui Skunk smells like skunky sour pineapple with a sweet overtone..... then my wife brings home this pineapple with this tag later that evening....... Fate is what I call it LOL
> 
> Looks like about 2 zips on the Widow Cindy to be on the real sare side, and another 2 1/2 on the Chemo Cindy (again on the lower side of final weight guess)....... so that would be......
> 
> ...


 congrats loaded im stoked for u!!!!!!! i cant wait till next week.. minus the surgery of course but its harvest after and im gonna say 2.5-3.5 lbs low ball of course +rep if i can


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## w1ckedchowda (Dec 10, 2009)

veeery nice harvest mang, good for you.  

how long did you veg for? great job brah.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 10, 2009)

about 5 weeks veg.... but when I vegged them I didn't really seriously plan on flowering any extras..... I didn't plan on having any extras, but I did , 11 oz's extra ...... using about 1/6 the space in there  ..... things are looking up  thank you both.......

You will come through wonderfully, get past this, and be the soldier you are ....... be smokin For yah


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## greenthumb111 (Dec 10, 2009)

w1ckedchowda said:


> veeery nice harvest mang, good for you.
> 
> how long did you veg for? great job brah.


Those twilight and MS look really good and crystally. Hows the smoke?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 10, 2009)

And *Today marks Day 1 week 9 for Chemo Cindy* ...... the only one to make the 9 1/2 weeks I originally anticipated....... her pot should be dry tomorrow afternoon..... I will give her a good watering, then chop a couple days later, like this weekend..... or something...... I am starting to get used to using the camera .... another 500 pics and I will have it dialed in 

Couldn't forget to take pics of her, she sure is pic worthy..... too bad RIU doesn't offer Smell Uploads, LOL ...... speaking of which..... my wife puts smell good stuff all over the house..... scented this and scented that, and incenses and candles and air perumers etc. etc. and the Maui Skunk is drying, smells up in the mix, and Twilight is drying, smells up in the mix..... but all I smell EVERYWHERE I go is *Chemo Cindy* ....... *

Dank*


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 10, 2009)

greenthumb111 said:


> Those twilight and MS look really good and crystally. Hows the smoke?


I tried one flash dried popcorn nug of the Twilight........ and was asleep in about 45 minutes...... I ate a bunch of food, and fell asleep with my daughter on the cough.... Grade AA+....... Tastes like dried and sweetened raspberries with a dab of fresh honey....... still needs to cure up, only tried the one bowl........ but was delish...... put me on my ass..... loved it..... better smoke report on all the strains later but the best way to get to know them of course , is to taste them yourself  Thanks for stopping by....... we will have to  in thanks for such beautiful genetics  kiss-ass


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## bender420 (Dec 10, 2009)

Who's your DADDY BIATCH!!!!







CC looks beautiful. Terrific man, I can only wish to grow like you one day. 

I called it on Maui Skunk being the favourite, turns out it is.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 10, 2009)

I also got some lights out pics in the flowering room  as you can see the finished CC is the same height as the two mothers I put in there to flower which are only a week and a half into flower now (Maui Skunk and Twilight), so should I expect more than double the harvest off of them???   There is also the Chemo Cindy mother in there which measures 3 ft tall as well just a week in there so far too..... and the two jack herers which are at week 1 as well (they were all fed a couple days ago BBB and FFBB)...... the light will be moved down as soon as the finished Chemo Cindy comes out, and the other plants will be re configured as you will see it unfold then ..... got some work to do in there here real quick........ PK to go into flower here in the next two weeks, and a couple more Suspected Chemo Cindys and a couple more Suspected Maui Skunks...... whether or not I germ more Widow Cindy depends on the Quality vs quantity factors of the finished product, she has been the underdog thus far, and I don't see it any different now.... but she smells like the sweetest vanilla fruit bowl now, with a hint of citrus spice.......mmmmmm....... 

On a side note...... The Thrive Alive incident pushed back phase 2 plans to start till January ....... damn it....... And I will be rotating the "jungle" side so that it evens out with a smooth perpetual harvest system over the next few flowering sessions....... I just put a few too many irons in the fire a few months ago, and am finally catching up 

Oh and the last three pics are views from the entry zipper door thingy  lol.....


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## bender420 (Dec 10, 2009)

Nice work Dragon. I reckon it will be more than double, about triple.


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## PainWrek (Dec 10, 2009)

i love night shots........ so much more aesthetically pleasing.......


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## Yaboii (Dec 10, 2009)

WOW outstanding pictures !! Nice journal glad I found it, Ill be watching...


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 10, 2009)

last watering for Chemo Cindy today..... BBB full strength for the other ladies in there .....


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## wonderblunder (Dec 10, 2009)

Looks sick. Your pictures always amaze me. I built a new watering system. May interest you.. WIll have it fully complete tommorrow..


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 10, 2009)

Yes I am going to have to rig up a watering system before filling up both sides of the flowering room......

But in the meantime..... I planted more beans  , 3 each of Chemo Cindy, Twilight, and Maui Skunk...... did some transplanting in the veg room as well, the remainder of the "survivor" batch...... got about 15-20 Silverbacks starting to veg it looks like, and plenty of Purple Kush on the way....... Sensi Stars are just starting to really show new vegetative growth, so I should expect them to really start veggin over the next week and a half (I hope!)....... Things are starting to look up in there  ...... Lots more cuttings about to be taken


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## ReAVeR (Dec 10, 2009)

lookin' good! glad to see the thrive alive disaster is in the past...


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 11, 2009)

Holy monster buds!!!!

You are the man Dragon. I can't keep up with your journal when I am medicated..you have so much goin' on so I read the last 20 pages un - medicated tonight. You should become a prop 215 growing consultant. I'll bet you could make bank helping growers get set-up and started. I mean really Dragon, you are a master at this shit. You just know your cannabis. How's the book comming? i will def be buying a copy.


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## wonderblunder (Dec 11, 2009)

Thrive Alive Disaster? I missed something? Bad subject? What do you have in mind for the watering system TLD? Nice pics of veg......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

the book is coming one piece at a time..... Im still researching and formulating........


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> Thrive Alive Disaster? I missed something? Bad subject? What do you have in mind for the watering system TLD? Nice pics of veg......


I had a bottle of Thrive Alive B1 that was left outside a few nights and froze..... I gave it to some cuttings that were rooting, and it pretty much destroyed 2/3 of the batch, stunted really badly what it didn't kill..... I have had cuttings sitting in a tray in a humidity dome for a month..... Got a new bottle, things are back on track ....... 

Watering system....... a simple system where I can run water into a reservoir or two (about 30-40 gallons each), where I can treat it and aerate it, and then pass it through a line to water/feed the plants....... either that or a wand with an extension..... I am debating.... will probably start with the wand, and go from there....... because some plants get watered earlier than others sometimes etc. ...... with the wand drawn from the reservoir instead 

Lollipopping and Topping and Scrogging are going to be Crucial in making it easier to water though......  ...... we are talking bout just the flower room now...... most everything got watered in the veg room accept the two I just transplanted a couple days ago, the cuttings I put in 1 gallon pots a few days ago (SilverBack) and the cuttings still under the humidity dome in the tray...... they might get just plain water tomorrow or the day after...... around the same time I will be taking cuttings! ......... Time to LST the PK


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

Music and its correlation with the cosmic phenomena of our paradoxical perceptions of life


[youtube]4WxDesCYVmM[/youtube]


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## PainWrek (Dec 11, 2009)

your too much loaded.....


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## wonderblunder (Dec 11, 2009)

I second that PW


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

I Am The Fully Loaded Dragon ........


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 11, 2009)

lmao funny funny man


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## fallinghigh (Dec 11, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I Am The Fully Loaded Dragon ........


I 2nd that 
...._______
.// _A ____/ 
// /
/__|  NICE WORK!!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

thanks guys.... ..... really appreciate the support 

the Chemo Cindy got her last 3 gallons of water today..... Harvest Expected on Sunday for her..... 1/2 strength Bio Bloom, and 1/4 Strength Tiger Bloom for other girls in the flowering area, little shy of 1/2 gallon for each of them...... I will be installing the netting in the jungle side in the next few days 

Cuttings in the veg area are looking good, the other two Sensi Star cuttings I took decided to reveg before rooting, but are rooting now .... couple more days and they will be ready for transplant..... I Pinch FIM topped the two largest members of the "Survivor" batch of clones (the two suspected to be Chemo Cindy), they are 12" and 14" respectively.... a few days after they recover (when they are really shooting out healthy top growth) I will be bottom trimming (cloning/lollopopping  ) and LST'ing them...... then a weeks recovery time, maybe a little more, and they will be 18-20" tall and about 16" diameter going into flower (So a little more or less than 2 weeks from now) by then, the flowering room (jungle side) should be perfectly ready for them ...... I will be doing something very similar with the suspected Maui Skunks from the "Survivor" batch, except I will be LST'ing them first (based on vegetative development, they really do look just like the Maui Skunk I flowered out   )


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## PainWrek (Dec 11, 2009)

thanks for your help tld. no i'm not using the extra fox farms. only grow big and big bloom. only flushed two plants..... and it took foreeeeeeever.... the affected girls don't look like they're gonna make it much longer....... bummer....

trying to retrace steps to see where i went wrong, so i can correct it next cycle. i used the grow big up until the 12/12 flip and started using the big bloom. yellowing came in around 20 days...... and pretty heavy at 31 days....

would it be safe to say i should have stuck with the veg nutes during the stretch? or possibly overfeeding causing too much salt build up and a high runoff PH, locking out the N? i dose with nutes every other watering, at the recommended dosage on the bottle, so i'm quite sure it's not overfeeding. i think i just didn't compensate with enough N during the stretch.
idk mang, ready for these ladies to finish so i can start over clean..... thanks again for your help brutha...


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

should have used GB in the first and half way throught the second week..... then again at week 5.... your not using FF TB?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

I just took 18 PK cuttings quite unexpectedly.... lol..... they cam off the PK that had been hurt by the Thrive Alive Incident....... she goes into flower in about a week and a half, and I needed to LST and bottom trim her...... so 18 PK cuttings are the results  ..... though about 5-6 of them are Tiny, TINY...... Im interested to see how they root ....... The Silver Backs that went into 1 gallon pots are starting to veg finally...... about a couple weeks and they will be ready to flower, I am not going to really mess with them at all aside from water/feeding..... I probably won't even transplant them into 5 gallon pots, shrugs, not sure about that yet....... I am going to try to cram as much into the Jungle side as I can..... so I can put some full sets of clones under the new 1000W set up, a bit more uniform  ...... looks like Im about a month or so aways from that..... Cheers all, Tis the Season to be Jolly!


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## PainWrek (Dec 11, 2009)

jolly ol saint loaded........ delivery christmas trees to those in need....

yea buddy, no tiger bloom here. just didn't do enough research on fox farm products, thought i'd be good with the G.B. and B.B. 

i'm lucky to have anything though, i live in mexico. can't even get a thermometer or hygrometer down here. took 3 weeks for all my tents, lights, nutes, etc to show up cause of problems with customs..... i had to hire a personal customs broker to clear my items cause fedex's customs agents don't handle fluids and powders.... (nutes, guano).... 


but the seeds showed up in notime.... 

all b/s aside though, i'll be stoked to have probably the KRUSTIEST herb in mexico in a few weeks.... 

damn, i'm rambling again......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

you should be fine.... looked like over watering to me...... if I remember correctly.... let the media dry all the way.... ALL the way, then light flush with treated water to balance everything out, and light nutes afterward measuring the run off to see when to stop  ...... they just aren't getting enough Macro to balance out the Micro  .... FF is a formulated schedule brand, meaning that in order for their line to work properly, the elements (at least) of each product is needing for desired results


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## StickyMango (Dec 11, 2009)

Jesus dude....what I have missed....shit looks amazing as always TLD, im along for the ride


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## bender420 (Dec 11, 2009)

I was just gone for 12 hours and so much had happened in your thread. Hope all is well.

Anyhow, last time i took cutting the tiny ones rooted much quicker. I am not sure if this is the consensus. As I have only taken cutting twice in my life, but so far 100% success.

Edit: just read thru and other folks seem to think this thread is moving at light speed. LOL.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

Strap in things are just getting started.......


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## purpdaddy (Dec 11, 2009)

Looks good dragon


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## greenthumb111 (Dec 11, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Strap in things are just getting started.......


You know I liked the CC better than the WC red in my grow. I will compost the WC white maybe if it soesnt cure well. THe CC was the smothest and I really liked the aroma of the plant. WC red didnt have much of an aroma but while I trim I smell lemon and sometimes skunk. Maybe the WC clone bottle is leaking for that skunk smell lol. As far as yield the WC red and CC were very similar for yield amounts. I liked to trim the CC but the WC red is a bit more labor intensive.

Initially I didnt think the WC red was going to be that good but it has resined up during curing and it is stoney. Still needs further testing which Im sure you will provide. The CC is very smooth fruity and very stoney. I will be starting a strain report threat which I will link to my sig in the very near future.

Your bud shots are amazing. Your CC makes me remember September. Very nice grow job and I will be watching for the room modifications.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks for stopping by my friend ....... You have perfect timing, as I just sat down to elaborate my thoughts on just the same subject....

I have had 2 Widow Cindy females flower.

1 WC that I grew out was of a Pink Pistil phenotype, Cinderella dom trait, but she hermied 3-4 weeks into flower more than I cared to tend for, and I pulled her early. She smelled very citrusy and spicy and hot! with a sweet undertone, very vague ambiguous sweetness that made me want to follow my nostrils that much further into the flower to get its full sweetness , but in the over all smell the sweetness (almost vanilla) was very low and easily dominated by the citrusy spice, .

1 WC that I grew out was of a White Pistil phenotype..... She was topped at a little more than 2 ft, she flowered for 8 1/2 weeks before the chop with no hermie tendencies. During the first 2-3 weeks her stalk when rubbed smelled like strait Pepper! But right in the middle of week 3 she started sweetening in smell..... Like she started growing melons kiwies plumbs and peaches instead of cannabis flowers...... slowly from week 4 to week 6 the sweet fruity perfumy smell overpowered that of pepper and spice, until it was the sweetness that easily dominated the citrusy spice smell instead....... and then even the undertone smells of those previously mentioned fruits started to permeate from the bases of her flowers, from week 6-8 the citrus and spice mixed with the sweetness, like there is a sweet fruit bowl right in front of you, with spicy pasta on the stove a few feet behind it wafting in and out of nostril range, the fruits sweetness exploding throughout the room as if you were cutting each different fruit simultaniously and they were all spewing their respective aromas forth unto you...... and right at the chop it was constantly like that, even after the chop its like that, but the since the chop the unkown spice mixture "spice" has been defined as that which comes from a skunks ass..... , 

as she lay in her box to rest, 
her buds dense up thick as can be, 
that is the lesson at behest, 
that the WC has reached keeper status for me, 

I will sprout more seeds of WC in the next couple months, and now I certainly am very glad I have them!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 11, 2009)

And all I can say about Chemo Cindys smell....... other than I don't Yet have the words to describe it....... is that its.......

[youtube]Y18c0oHZLfM[/youtube]

*You have to really listen to the words of the song, with the thought of Chemo Cindy all along the way, to really understand it.......*


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## fallinghigh (Dec 11, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> And all I can say about Chemo Cindys smell....... other than I don't Yet have the words to describe it....... is that its.......
> QUOTE]
> 
> I love cindy sounds like a great cross.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

didn't get any pics of the Chemo Cindy today, she is sleeping... I will get pics of her pre harvest though ....... maybe tomorrow or Sunday...... Took some measurements in the flowering room today......... getting things ready

Widow Cindy got boxed ........ Haven't focused on her much At All picture wise, 

so here is her due, and she has earned it, smells it too , makes me want fruit salad.... tummy grumbles.... she could have gone a full 11 weeks..... but I didn't expect her to turn out this good... lol.... that and foxtail separation is one of my least favorite characteristics of pot....... so phallic, lol


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## warisnottheanswer (Dec 12, 2009)

wow ive never seen bud that looked like that +rep the colors are great looks so yummy!


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## fallinghigh (Dec 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> foxtail separation is one of my least favorite characteristics of pot....... so phallic, lol


I agree.. I call it larf..anyhows imho it is way better to pick a few day to soon than a few 2 l8t. Once that bud stars larfing the potency start dropping dramatically. The nugs look kinda like a Jack dont you think. tasty


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

Yep, your definitely in California..... ..... I call it larf too.... sometimes, when I am trying not to be mean..... and as soon as I see aggressive foxtailing, I typically Drop the strain! But not with this WC.... nah, I will definitely mess around with it some more ..... Jack Herer?


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## fallinghigh (Dec 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Yep, your definitely in California..... ..... I call it larf too.... sometimes, when I am trying not to be mean..... and as soon as I see aggressive foxtailing, I typically Drop the strain! But not with this WC.... nah, I will definitely mess around with it some more ..... Jack Herer?


 
hehe know whats ya mean..ya Jack herer ....well cindy is a granddaughter of Jack inbred to the daughter of jack. unknown father
cindy 99 anyhow


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 12, 2009)

So much going on over here. I love it. Those nugs look amazing, I can almost smell em'.  It's hard to beleive that you are still woking on this project. I can't wait to see all the details of the finished set-up.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

yeah..... C-99 is a great breeding strain, coming down from that line, especially with the unknown male (was it a sativa hydrid afghan male? because the way the phenos unfold it looks like it)...... and some pheno's are just fantastic for growing to flower...... to bad there aren't any pure C-99 genetics around..... I would be growing the shit out of it!

Genetics is my new playground.... ......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

#1Raiderfan420 said:


> So much going on over here. I love it. Those nugs look amazing, I can almost smell em'.  It's hard to beleive that you are still woking on this project. I can't wait to see all the details of the finished set-up.


Phase 2 hasn't even kicked off yet... we are looking at approximately 10-12 phases.... phases 3-5 are going to be relatively small jumps, and 6-10 are going to be Huge Leaps ..... it will all be about 2 yrs in the making..... those that are around now, in the beginning, will have the greatest understanding of the progression......

and anyone that catches on late, can feel free to read through the 100-200 pages of journal when they get here to catch up


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Phase 2 hasn't even kicked off yet... we are looking at approximately 10-12 phases.... phases 3-5 are going to be relatively small jumps, and 6-10 are going to be Huge Leaps ..... it will all be about 2 yrs in the making..... those that are around now, in the beginning, will have the greatest understanding of the progression......
> 
> and anyone that catches on late, can feel free to read through the 100-200 pages of journal when they get here to catch up


 
In 1-2 years there may be thousands of pages..but it is good reading


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

you could be right.... with as much posting as I am doing.... and as many setbacks in the first 2 phases getting established...... lol...... could turn it into a book


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## fallinghigh (Dec 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> yeah..... C-99 is a great breeding strain, coming down from that line, especially with the unknown male (was it a sativa hydrid afghan male? because the way the phenos unfold it looks like it)...... and some pheno's are just fantastic for growing to flower...... to bad there aren't any pure C-99 genetics around..... I would be growing the shit out of it!
> 
> Genetics is my new playground.... ......


 Had her last year..didnt clone her..had some breeding projects going and lost sight of what I had. Buds were fantastic lemon fruity cerebral like a mofo..her, that sativa leaning romulan from 98, or a nice mauwi mauwi, is what I am in search for, to add to all the kush and skush I got going. if you hear of a dispensary with any of them 3, a pm would be much appreciated. I will drive up and down the State for em no prob.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

You know what Maui Skunk is right?


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## fallinghigh (Dec 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> You know what Maui Skunk is right?


 Not for sure if I can say I had Legit maui skunk.. but I do know Maui wowi and that is my fav. hands down. The taste and high are unmatched..not even og or urkle beat it out in book..and from what I hear she can pull a full 6lb outside. Have you had them both...what are the differences or similarities. I think I had some "trunk" that was a trainwreck maui skunk cross it was bomb as fk ...some no joke medicine right there..wouldnt mind that..or would recommend it


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

Maui Skunk/Hawaii Skunk/Maui Wowie ..... its all the same thing  ....... this is the closest that I could find that looks like mine (from the pics), I know mine is the real deal..... 


http://www.amsterdammarijuanaseeds.com/product_info.php?affilid=324213563450&currency=49&product_id=12


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

Follow the link in the quote to the original post to see the pics of my Maui Skunk (Maui Wowie).......




theloadeddragon said:


> Yield......... I am stoked about the yield! .... looks like 3 1/2 - 4 oz'es (on the low side  ) off of the Maui Skunk.... Decided to make a Maui Gold Pyramid! LOL.... I was saying the other day that the Maui Skunk smells like skunky sour pineapple with a sweet overtone..... then my wife brings home this pineapple with this tag later that evening....... Fate is what I call it LOL
> 
> Looks like about 2 zips on the Widow Cindy to be on the real sare side, and another 2 1/2 on the Chemo Cindy (again on the lower side of final weight guess)....... so that would be......
> 
> ...


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## fallinghigh (Dec 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Follow the link in the quote to the original post to see the pics of my Maui Skunk (Maui Wowie).......


fuck got caught up with the chem and cindy dint realize you had the maui. Went to reps Wouldnt lets me though..lol...I think I posted a comment on them nugs in the nug forum for them nugs ....By looking at the size of that cola she could be a 6 lb lady..them buds look like maui eeeeeek..does she have that super trippy...hello...wait...what....hello....like...what super trippy..high.

Ya I would love to get my hands on her..I would treat her right ..


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

Im sure you would! good luck finding some..... those seeds in that link may be worth while as well 



And on Topic 

Decidedly, the Twilight tastes like a Raspberry Milkshake, what sat and was warmed by the sun, skunky tinge on the way out


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

Monday or Tuesday.....


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## StickyMango (Dec 12, 2009)

:claps: What else to say TLD.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

a couple of the WC for size..... this is one of the lower tops (from below where she was topped)


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## StickyMango (Dec 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> a couple of the WC for size..... this is one of the lower tops (from below where she was topped)



Looks like some fuego my friend


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## giantart (Dec 12, 2009)

Flower at 8 inches huh? Maybe thats why the SOG's I see are not that easy. Too slow a turn-over!

-help others before you help yourself-


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## giantart (Dec 12, 2009)

Wish I had a camera like dat! 

-help others before you help yourself-


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

giantart said:


> Flower at 8 inches huh? Maybe thats why the SOG's I see are not that easy. Too slow a turn-over!
> 
> -help others before you help yourself-


Uhh what?


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## StickyMango (Dec 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Uhh what?


I want some of what hes smokin...that shit made him forget english


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

I just smoked some Maui........ Fuckin Keyesd one bowl...... Blitzed.... and I think I have a high tolerance....


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## StickyMango (Dec 12, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I just smoked some Maui........ Fuckin Keyesd one bowl...... Blitzed.... and I think I have a high tolerance....


I just loaded the bottom half of my bowl, and loaded the top half with keif.

Im on a 747


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## greenthumb111 (Dec 13, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Maui Skunk/Hawaii Skunk/Maui Wowie ..... its all the same thing  ....... this is the closest that I could find that looks like mine (from the pics), I know mine is the real deal.....
> 
> 
> http://www.amsterdammarijuanaseeds.com/product_info.php?affilid=324213563450&currency=49&product_id=12


 
You know when Hodgy was talking about the Maui Skunk on my trip I asked him about the Maui seeds I have and he said they were Maui Wowie not Maui Skunk so I think they are different. Regardless the Moui Wowie will be part of my 2010 grow.

On another note there are several vendors of seeds who are selling C-99 both phenos. They will also be part of the 2010 grow. Stay tuned


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## bender420 (Dec 13, 2009)

Man I love the Cindy Pineapple Pheno. I really hope one day I can have the honor of growing it. 

I reckon you are going to enjoy your new playground, I will have fun going along with you on your journey. TERRIFIC!!!!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 13, 2009)

greenthumb111 said:


> You know when Hodgy was talking about the Maui Skunk on my trip I asked him about the Maui seeds I have and he said they were Maui Wowie not Maui Skunk so I think they are different. Regardless the Moui Wowie will be part of my 2010 grow.
> 
> On another note there are several vendors of seeds who are selling C-99 both phenos. They will also be part of the 2010 grow. Stay tuned


If you read his thread closely enough you will notice that he refers to the same plant at different times as both Maui Skunk and Maui Wowie. I have spent the better part of 40 hrs researching into whether or not there is a difference, and the origins of it. So far Conclusive evidence has led me to beleive they are both the same. 

Reminds me of many of the holes that I am finding in strain names as compared to strain lineages and the actual breeding practices.

Cinderella 99 seeds are available....... huh? I saw RM just got some.... the Joey Weed ones..... I read up on them a little bit, and looks the real deal...... F2 C-99 seeds..... too bad I don't order anything off the net


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 13, 2009)

TLD a quick question here for ya. And sorry if this is off topic... I don't think it is too far off but oh well. I need some help in strain selection for next grow. Here is what I'm looking for seeds, fem perferablly but I might try some regular seeds. I want DENSE buds, I know this is strain related and also how far you take her into flowering, that said I want a strain that is just gonna be dense no matter what. Resin content is also another factor, I want a good bit but I also want a decent yeild. I don't want to sacrifice either for either ya feel me? Height isn't too big of a concern considering my grow style, indica feeling deffinately I don't like the long flowering times of the sativa blends, or the racey heart pounding high. Purple would be great but not a must. With all of this said I know you don't purchase anything from the net, I only purchase seeds off the net. My selections all been fluffy type buds and I'm getting tired of it. Any help is much appreiciated my man.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 13, 2009)

Purple Kush is what you are looking for..... nothing short, A True Elite strain....... hope you got some bucks in your pocket........ If you veg em long enough and handle em right you will get pretty decent yields of OG Kush...... Sensi Star and Maui Skunk are dense as Hell.........Chemo Cindy is looking good too..... Blueberry crossed with Black Africa is Exactyl what you Described....... but there aint much rarer than that...... good luck with your search...... I posted a list of strains I wanted to grow that Nirvana had about 20 pgs back or so........ each one of those should produce the nugs you want.....


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 13, 2009)

Ok one I was under the impression that the true purple kush is a clone only strain named sr-71? Two I know your stance on sensi star and I completey forgot about it. I'll deffinately have to add that to my list. And three the maui skunk you grew was my favorite out of the bunch. I'd pick up those seeds if I knew where to score them on the net. Thanks for the help btw.


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## fallinghigh (Dec 13, 2009)

greenfirekilla420 said:


> Ok one I was under the impression that the true purple kush is a clone only strain named sr-71? Two I know your stance on sensi star and I completey forgot about it. I'll deffinately have to add that to my list. And three the maui skunk you grew was my favorite out of the bunch. I'd pick up those seeds if I knew where to score them on the net. Thanks for the help btw.


pk is clone only first post says 20 pk clones


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 13, 2009)

Yes True Purple Kush, is an SR 71 strain that is clone only....... However, there are some PK hybrids out there such as Early Purple Kush (Early Bitty x Purple Kush) and another Early Purple Kush (lowrider and purple kush grafted and inbred with low rider)... I posted a link to Maui Skunk seeds some where in the last three or four pages.... not the same source as where I got mine, but looks the same anyways.....


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks I've looked up purple kush seeds and maui skunk, couldn't find the maui skunk through the attitude. The only purple kush I could find was a purple kush/mazar|shariff cross from TH Seeds called Darkstar. I'm either going with sensi star or Sweet Afhgani Delicious S1 from sweet seeds. The SAD is black domina is backcrossed back to the orginal BD mother I'm pretty sure. Thanks for the suggestions TLD. I can't wait till this summer.


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## slabhead (Dec 13, 2009)

Nice frosty pics there TLD. yum yum yum


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## fallinghigh (Dec 13, 2009)

this pic makes my mind numb you know you got skills as a grower when you get somebody medicated via photo great Job!!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 13, 2009)

Why Thank You!!  It is my pleasure to deliver stony weed 

And Some Harvest dry weights are in.... for those first three the totals are thus:

Twilight- 76.4 grams

Maui Skunk- 117.7 grams

Widow Cindy- 96 grams (subject to a round 4 grams more to lose) so 92 grams.... 

Thats 286.1 grams total thus far or 10.11 oz's (28.3 grms)

with the Chemo Cindy still left to weigh in (looking like a solid 72 grams), and she should bring the total up to about 356 grams total dry weight (12.5 oz's) 

Which is an avg of 3.15 oz's per plant.....

Speculatively were I to do an SOG in there I should expect 1/2 ounce less per plant or more, avging out to about 2 oz's per plant, packing in 25 plants (the original idea of 30 just won't fit) which would total to 52-54 oz's or 3.2 lbs per 10 weeks.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 13, 2009)

I broke a branch and the whole thing came down..... LOL


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## BooMeR242 (Dec 13, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Why Thank You!!  It is my pleasure to deliver stony weed
> 
> And Some Harvest dry weights are in.... for those first three the totals are thus:
> 
> ...



damn brotha thats sum good weight right there  congrats


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 13, 2009)

And So the flowering room got....... Changed

Maui Skunk right next to the center Isle (topped), Twilight over by the thermometer/hygrometer (topped), Two jacks (a week apart in flower, neither topped) in between, and Chemo Cindy (topped) right in the center of them

Since these pics were taken I lowered the bulb and reflector and angled it semi vertically for better light spread and canopy penetration 

Within the next Week and a half, the flowering room will see the additions of one LST'ed Purple Kush (at approximately 20 inches tall, topped and bottom trimmed), Two Chemo Cindys (from the survivor batch, they are both Confirmed Chemo Cindy, by smell, each will be about 20 inches tall, FIM'ed and bottom trimmed) and I will be adding to the room progressively over the next 3 1/2 weeks, and it should be full....

About a week or two after that I should be ready to get the other side started flowering
And stay consistently perpetual in this flowering area from there!!


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## fallinghigh (Dec 13, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> And So the flowering room got....... Changed


Looken good can I see some pics with the flash so I can see the color variations of strains


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 13, 2009)

Later tonight I will get a couple lights out pics...... the flash is on in some of those pics......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 13, 2009)

Sheeeza...... Im now subscribed to 800 something threads!!!


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## BooMeR242 (Dec 13, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Sheeeza...... Im now subscribed to 800 something threads!!!



haha ya bro idk how u do it im at like 60.... thats it i have a hardtime keepin up as is... i see u all over the god damn place


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 13, 2009)

Wow those are gonna be some trees there TLD. I love your plants... specially the maui skunk


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 13, 2009)

Why thank you 

couldn't resist with the Chemo.... I love the reddish orange-ish tint to the pistils!


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## fallinghigh (Dec 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Why thank you
> 
> couldn't resist with the Chemo.... I love the reddish orange-ish tint to the pistils!


Haha you buy the same brand of cheap indian store cigs as me...1.75 a pack cant beat it nice fatty buds


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## greenthumb111 (Dec 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Why thank you
> 
> couldn't resist with the Chemo.... I love the reddish orange-ish tint to the pistils!


Check out my chemo and let me know what you think. Doesnt look anything like your buds (crystally) but it packs a punch and is smooth with a very nice aroma. First 4 pics are CC and the last 2 are JTR. The JTR was the most frosty of mine this year and most popular since it has bag appeal. It is the most potent too so I can see why. I still havent picked the strains I want for 2010 season so that will be fun. Would like to include a SS and PK in the grow too.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 14, 2009)

Looks Excellent to me! 

Here are the lights off pics from last night.... I fell asleep before I could post them 

I won't be taking anymore pics in the flowering room for about a week (most of the plants in there are about two weeks into flower). I am going to be taking cuttings from the Maui Skunk mother that is in there tonight, and cuttings from a Jack Herer in there as well. The Jack herers in there will be getting some water tomorrow. The other three plants will probably hold off until the day after.

I think you may all get a little kick out of how I plan on setting things up in that jungle side  

Little Veg action going on, I will have pics up of that with a little description later on...... a little before and after action


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 14, 2009)

Hey Dragon, I got a quick question you might be able to help me with. I have some yellowing on top fans and a a few leaves are canoeing. I want to do a flush and picked up some clearex today. I use r/o water normally, but am wondering if I can use tap to flush my coco with clearex. I appreciate the help.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 14, 2009)

I would flush with R/O water and clearex....... actually I wouldn't use clearex........ it would benefit you rather than me, as I am not using coco..... but R/O water, not tap, unless you have really quality tap water.....


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I would flush with R/O water and clearex....... actually I wouldn't use clearex........ it would benefit you rather than me, as I am not using coco..... but R/O water, not tap, unless you have really quality tap water.....


Yeah, I figured that's what you'd say .. lol I forgot to turn my water on last night after feeding, so my res is empty and takes 24 hours to fill through the r/o filter. I am sure you right about trying the r/o water alone before using clearex..I wll probably just wait until tomorrow and use a low dose of a/b nutes with some r/o and give them a good flush. 
Thanks for the advice my friend and sorry for high jacking your thread for a sec. It won't happen again.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 14, 2009)

LOL.... No, you didn't jack me of anything 

These are not Before Shots! These are just general Veg room shots...... and some brief info....

Pics 1-7 are Purple Kush...... the first, paler one will be going into flower in about a week and a half, the second one pictured is the new PK mother 

Pic 8 shows the first 3 sprouts from the seeds I just planted a couple days ago (Chemo Cindies  )

Pics 9 and 10 are of the area under the Fluorescent lights, its my nursing area for plants, every single one under there was a victim to the Thrive Alive incident, including the front two 5 gallon pots containing the Sensi Star Cuttings ...... I give their rehabilitation period another two weeks, and they should be ready for full vegetative growth.....

The rest of the pictures are general room shots, first couple are of the Blue Dream plants....... the humidity dome has PK on the Left, SilverBack on the right (Silverback that got hit by the Thrive Alive, look at the difference between them and the PK) A couple close ups of the Sense Stars just starting to reveg, and a close up on a new seedling


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 14, 2009)

This pk looks great? How long has she been vegging for. Did you top, fim, or are you doing low stress on them?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 14, 2009)

She was top FIM'ed and is now being LST'ed to maximize the effect of the FIM, she was FIM'ed by pinching the very top calyx set (as she started as a nug on a plant when she was taken as a cutting) before reveggin  The other PK was not topped or pinch FIM'ed or anything, just LST'ed (the more yellow sickly looking one) was hit with the bad Thrive Alive B1 (left outside, tired of repeating myself)

Here are the Before Pictures I was talking about

the first few close ups are of the Chemo Cindy Clones (they were both FIM topped by pinching, twice)

Then the Complete Mystery Center plant, she will be Pinch FIM'ed in a few days....

Then the Maui Skunk Clones (looks just like the Maui Skunk that flowered out, No?) 

Then some outer angles and group shots

I will try to keep the sam order with the after shots..... the after shots may not be until tomorrow or even the next day though.....

All of these plants pictured will be in the Jungle Side of the flowering room within one months time, starting with the Chemo Cindy clones this upcoming weekend (followed immediately by the "sickly" PK), and then going onto the Maui Skunk (followed immediately by one Blue Dream), the Mystery plant, and the SilverBacks you can see in the 1 gallon pots.... they will all be between 18-22 inches tall and approximately 14-18 inches in diameter when they go into flower, all topped LST'ed and bottom trimmed

The bottom trimmed branches will turn into cuttings, joined by cuttings from the flower room as well 

Now that things are really starting to pick up speed for me..... I can definitely understand how you guys could miss some things, having to deal with your own grows/journals and all....... 

I would like to thank all of you for tuning in though.... your encouragement and support really does make all the difference to me


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## Drella (Dec 14, 2009)

showing up even later to your journal, you got some skills bro. that twilight is so dense it was hard for me to breath for a couple of mins. good luck with your perpetual running smoothly, here's to that, scribed!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 14, 2009)

plenty of reading material here


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## fallinghigh (Dec 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> She was top FIM'ed and is now being LST'ed to maximize the effect of the FIM, she was FIM'ed by pinching the very top calyx set (as she started as a nug on a plant when she was taken as a cutting) before reveggin  The other PK was not topped or pinch FIM'ed or anything, just LST'ed (the more yellow sickly looking one) was hit with the bad Thrive Alive B1 (left outside, tired of repeating myself)
> 
> Here are the Before Pictures I was talking about
> 
> ...


like the pics interesting pruning teq. what is your total veg time. Seems you might be over pruning, hit me up if you care to discus it. I got a few tricks that might save you some time. What kind of soil you got there. to each is own and there are many different ways of pruning so dont take it as a negative comment. I am not trying to convert you just trying to get a grasp on veg time how many shoots and the productivity of the shoots.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 14, 2009)

total veg time is approximately 6 weeks, not including rooting and a week after transplant into pot ....... Basically, the Purple Kushes pictured are 16 inches as they are right now (18" if untied), they both just gave cuttings within the last week, As they are pictured, the more sickly looking one will go into flower in a week and a couple days, first she will grow another 6-8 inches in the next week or so before she goes into flower, solid canopy, with healthy strong tops taking up 4-5 square inches or more pushing the canopy out and wide  I won't trim any of that at all, it will all grow out and branch out..... about 20-22 inches tall when she goes into flower, with maybe 10-12 main tops (20 inch diameter  )

The ones that are about to give cuttings were topped about 3 or 4 days ago, and are continuing with new growth from the top now. They will be treated in a similar manner to the purple Kush..... I would expect approximately 10-12 grams per top........ 3 1/2 ft tall finishing......... It all unfolds as it should...... and constructive critisizm when presented in a respected manner is always a productive and helpful thing   thanks much for the input


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## fallinghigh (Dec 14, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> total veg time is approximately 6 weeks, not including rooting and a week after transplant into pot ....... Basically, the Purple Kushes pictured are 16 inches as they are right now (18" if untied), they both just gave cuttings within the last week, As they are pictured, the more sickly looking one will go into flower in a week and a couple days, first she will grow another 6-8 inches in the next week or so before she goes into flower, solid canopy, with healthy strong tops taking up 4-5 square inches or more pushing the canopy out and wide  I won't trim any of that at all, it will all grow out and branch out..... about 20-22 inches tall when she goes into flower, with maybe 10-12 main tops (20 inch diameter  )
> 
> The ones that are about to give cuttings were topped about 3 or 4 days ago, and are continuing with new growth from the top now. They will be treated in a similar manner to the purple Kush..... I would expect approximately 10-12 grams per top........ 3 1/2 ft tall finishing......... It all unfolds as it should...... and constructive critisizm when presented in a respected manner is always a productive and helpful thing   thanks much for the input


ok I saved that to a word doc..cant wait to see your results what kind of soil are you using nutes?


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## fallinghigh (Dec 14, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> ok I saved that to a word doc..cant wait to see your results what kind of soil are you using nutes?


 are you still using FF? are you adding somthing ?..mabey you will wana go with straight OF? Do you know what is yellowing up the plants ?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 15, 2009)

*I left a bottle of Thrive Alive B1 outside overnight for a couple nights before I used it (in freezing temps)*, *when I did use it, it was on most of the plants but not all (and A whole two batches of cuttings) and everything that I used it on had a very bad reaction*....... as I have stated I don't know how many times and within the last 2 pages......

I am using 2/3 Bio Bizz All Mix with 1/3 Fox Farms Ocean Forest, 10% extra perlite mixed in.

Veg nutes are Bio Bizz Fish mix, Thrive Alive b1 (new bottle), and FF BB And I am more than happy with the results,


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 15, 2009)

lmao....


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## Jerry Garcia (Dec 15, 2009)

Just wanted to bump some of your bud porn...that chemo looks damn fine.


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## wonderblunder (Dec 15, 2009)

Damn TLD, Just got caught up on my reading. Looks excellent. Chemo CIndy is a really beauty. In the future I need to get some genetics like that. In the mean time, I will use what I have. Veg room looks sweet, PKs are nice. looking forward to getting it going.

Is that vertical net in the flowering room for support? I like it..... Looking awesome......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 15, 2009)

the netting is holding the Twilight and Maui Skunk mothers down and farther away from the center of the flowering box, each over 5.5 ft tall going into their 2nd week of flower, with diameters of 30" each..... I needed to lower the light for when I put more plants in, and tying them down and to the side like that (weaving them through the netting actually) opens up the center area more for more plants to fit making better use of the light, as their canopy takes up less space this way, and it won't effect the yield at all, as they are getting more light now then they have for the last two weeks being shaded by the other plants and farther away from the light. In about a month or so, the entire canopy will be in a bowl shape filling out the entire box area and overflowing where ever it can (especially because I will be turning on the other light then)  ..... what you are seeing now is the first side, then the center will fill in, then the center will be pushed out to the side apposing the Maui Skunk (or part of the center anyways  ) then the center will be filled again, just in time for the first set of plants to get finished up, and after a couple weeks stretch, the center will push out to the first side again.... and thus the flower box is perpetual..... does that makes sense to anyone but me?


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## wonderblunder (Dec 15, 2009)

Makes sense to me TLD! Like your thinking. I have a really stupid question for you.
What would be the best way to use my 55 gallon ( 50 gallon useable) watering system?
I can water straight out of it with easy and would like to do that, What if I follow Fox Farm's every watering schedule for nutrients and mix larger quanities(3-5 days worth). Would like to be able to mix a weeks worth and water straight out of it........


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 15, 2009)

its all up to you.... shrugs, It depends


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 15, 2009)

don't know if I have mentioned this before...... or if its just occuring to me..... but

Growing herb, for me, is in quite a lot of ways like making Top Ramen......


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## dgk4life (Dec 15, 2009)

wait so what happen to your bottle of thrive alive  

and for me growing is more like making popcorn lol just set the power on my lights and let it go..

lookin good loaded


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 15, 2009)

I drank the shit.....

Sour Skunk-Toxic apple shewy Starburst baby shit....... Thats what the Chemo Cindy smells like.... it is affirmed by the "guard", who should know, dude smelled it constantly for two months Salivating at the mouth, literally frothing half the time.....


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 15, 2009)

Next Monday will be six weeks veg for the Purple Kush..... I think that will be a good time to put her in flower  ........... Since the "survivor" batch members weren't flowering, they have vegged faster than the PK and will be just a few days later ........ cuttings time :/


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## greenthumb111 (Dec 15, 2009)

fallinghigh said:


> like the pics interesting pruning teq. what is your total veg time. Seems you might be over pruning, hit me up if you care to discus it. I got a few tricks that might save you some time. What kind of soil you got there. to each is own and there are many different ways of pruning so dont take it as a negative comment. I am not trying to convert you just trying to get a grasp on veg time how many shoots and the productivity of the shoots.


Post your technique so we all can learn. Thats what its all about.


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## greenthumb111 (Dec 15, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I drank the shit.....
> 
> Sour Skunk-Toxic apple shewy Starburst baby shit....... Thats what the Chemo Cindy smells like.... it is affirmed by the "guard", who should know, dude smelled it constantly for two months Salivating at the mouth, literally frothing half the time.....


My friend said my CC was so nice smelling but could not describe the smell; however, he said he wanted to eat the colas.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 15, 2009)

sounds Tasty! to me! ......

So now, all three Chemo Cindy and all three Maui Skunk seeds have sprouted, with just the Twilight lagging behind under the topsoil..... LOL (refer to first few pages of journal  )

I watered the ladies in the flowering room today, all of them, because I didn't get the jacks like I thought i would......

Still haven't taken those cuttings...... will get to it, will probably do it in sets to make it easier to keep the strains separate without having to label etc. 

I suppose the PK may go into flower as soon as this weekend (after taking some measurements, and knowing that I just cut her back a bunch, and she has just finished recovering from that, she has nothing to put all her energy into but vegging..... So, I predict 4" growth in 4 days (putting her at a solid 20"), and she will go into flower then (saturday)...... I will probably water the PK's tomorrow, so the PK going into flower will get a full strength Fish Mix feeding right when she goes into flower, with a 1/4 strength Bio Bizz Bloom feeding too........ followed by a watering with regular strength FF Big Bloom 

I took measurements of the larger Chemo Cindy plants and Maui Skunk as well, and it turns out they are closer to going into flower than I though, considering I just topped the Chemo Cindy, and am about to bottom trim (take cuttings  ) I will wait about a week extra to put them in flower...... it will be marked by their canopy being close to semi level, with the new multiple tops having at least 3 dense lush nodes (will gain a couple more the first weeks in flower).......

Won't have reason to take pics really until after this upcoming couple of cutting sessions...... Im procastinating??? lol


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## c5rftw (Dec 15, 2009)

man, everything is looking soo good man... how many days do you cure a bud like this one of yours








does it affect curing time with large nugs like this... i got 4 close to this size(not bigger ofcourse, lol) that have been curing 3 weeks now.. wondering what you recommend


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 15, 2009)

that nug won't be touched for smoke for a month.....

I have already gone over harvesting particulars in this thread..... page 30 something>>>???>>>

Chemo weighs in at 3 1/2 oz's right now, and will probably lose about another 1/2 to 3/4 of an ounce ... the Chemo Cindy is in a box, drying......


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 16, 2009)

Fantastic looking bud. That is a fatty!
Is that your book this thing is sitting on? lol


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## wonderblunder (Dec 16, 2009)

I like those genetics.....


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 16, 2009)

you would like them even more if you could smell it!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 16, 2009)

Oh yeah, and the other three seeds (the Twilight) have popped up this morning, so all nine seeds germinated sprouted and are all now between 1" and 2 1/2" tall within 72 hrs


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## wonderblunder (Dec 16, 2009)

Nice nice. I would love a whiff of some of that........


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## StickyMango (Dec 16, 2009)

Im coming over next month or so to toke this with you my friend!!!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 16, 2009)

Widow Cindy:

As you light it and start to draw in the smoke you feel a warm tingling sensation start at the center of the tongue and spread outward, but the tingly sensation dulls out as you continue to draw smoke in (bong) and instead you feel a warm sweet sensation on your tongue, and you pull the carb, the fresh air comes in and hits like a blast, as the oxygen mixes with the smoke as it goes down your throat your nerve clusters in the back of the throat become more sensitive to the feeling of Heat, and the smoke and air expand in your lungs the sweet warm sensation on your tongue the whole time..... Holding it in as long as you can, basking in the warm sweetness, until the smoke explodes out of you, screaming out your lungs and a light burning sensation on the back of the throat, BubbleGumJuicyFruit smell/taste completely saturating every millimeter of sensitive tissue in your mouth, causing it to water as you cough little bits dribble out onto the floor and your looking down at it, Head Swimming in a spiral of delight, a Huge rush goes through your spine and your mind, and a burst of energy comes forth as you look up, forced to stand, dazed for a second and confused about what really just happened you hand the bong to me and utter gruffly "tastes good" before coughing a couple times and resuming your seat........ you can actually feel the Cannabinoids literally dancing around in your brain, little shoots of sensations going from the fore to the rear of the mind, then down your spine and out through every line of nerves in your body, your conscious simply one step behind your reactions to the hit...... we smoke some more, until we are both lagging on out rips, 2 bowls and we stare at each other silent, zoned out on our individual perceptions of each other, feeling the stone, building up hunger, before we break for food...... mmm food...... Widow Cindy is a sure Delight! "racy head stone" of C-99 is definitely present, with WW undertones very sweetly delectible


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## dgk4life (Dec 16, 2009)

your descriptions really r amazing... im sendin u a sample of mine to ahev u right a review!!!!!!!111


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 16, 2009)

I will be doing a review like that for each strain..... just gotta have the right timing


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 16, 2009)

Like right now 

Maui Skunk:

Lighting the bowl and drawing it in and..... taste nothing, maybe a little like drawing in some good clean hash, and you like ok, I could draw up smoke Forever, and as soon as your done thinking that, you know to pull the carb AND WHEN YOU DO........ PINEAPPLE sweetness clings to every surface of your mouth, its soury citrus is noticeably absorbing into every bit of your mouth, like THC is landing everywhere in your mouth, being absorbed all the way down your throat and into your lungs, Barely able to hold the hit, it expands after a bried hesitation (false Sense of security) and you Have to exhale, all the while you can feel the smoke Absorb through your cilla, you can taste the pineapple still in your watery mouth......... the smoke seems more humid as it comes out, billowing forth, your taken aback by the pungent pineapple sweet as it fades to a skunky sour with just a tease of sweetness, your next few breathes are deep, and you feel Hash taste all on the inside of your mouth..... you drink some water and..... as you smoke the bowl, the pineapple just becomes more and more sour and skunky........... until at then end, your staring at a Black and greywhite scary looking skunks ass in the bowl, tasting it too ......... the high is moderately more heavy than that of the Widow Cindy, Relaxing Move Watching Dinner Eating sitting on the hillside watching the wind in the trees, happy appreciate life and the world and family, overtaken by the pineapple blessings in life ..... I suppose it makes me feel like a pineapple


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## fallinghigh (Dec 16, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> like right now :d
> 
> maui skunk:
> 
> Lighting the bowl and drawing it in and..... Taste nothing, maybe a little like drawing in some good clean hash, and you like ok, i could draw up smoke forever, and as soon as your done thinking that, you know to pull the carb and when you do........ Pineapple sweetness clings to every surface of your mouth, its soury citrus is noticeably absorbing into every bit of your mouth, like thc is landing everywhere in your mouth, being absorbed all the way down your throat and into your lungs, barely able to hold the hit, it expands after a bried hesitation (false sense of security) and you have to exhale, all the while you can feel the smoke absorb through your cilla, you can taste the pineapple still in your watery mouth......... The smoke seems more humid as it comes out, billowing forth, your taken aback by the pungent pineapple sweet as it fades to a skunky sour with just a tease of sweetness, your next few breathes are deep, and you feel hash taste all on the inside of your mouth..... You drink some water and..... As you smoke the bowl, the pineapple just becomes more and more sour and skunky........... Until at then end, your staring at a black and greywhite scary looking skunks ass in the bowl, tasting it too ......... The high is moderately more heavy than that of the widow cindy, relaxing move watching dinner eating sitting on the hillside watching the wind in the trees, happy appreciate life and the world and family, overtaken by the pineapple blessings in life ..... I suppose it makes me feel like a pineapple


a+ report a+ nugget keep up the good work


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks man! means a lot! 

was moving things around in the veg area...... screwing round with the camera, I just thought it would be a pretty picture...... the table will look like that all the time when I have 2 400W MH's over it in a couple more months


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 16, 2009)

Twilight :

As soon as you start to draw the smoke it, its hitting you, its very strong peach raspberry taste is covering your tongue YOUR MIND...... The raspberry and the peach tastes build stronger and more specific and detailed the longer you pull smoke, and when you pull the carb....  .... Pause... When you pull the carb on a bong, the oxygen and smoke mixes dramatically in the basin where the water is and the smoke close to your mouth stirs faster swirling compacting under the pressure of your lungs inhaling...... SO, right at That Moment when they mix and the smoke condences, The most Powerful Hash Taste Explodes out from the center of your tongue!!!! an by the time your done inhaling the O2 and clearing out the bong, Your BAKED, your squeeking repetitively, you feel your eyes bulge and redden, and you look down as you replace the bowl in the stem and cough out the most Raspberrie Tasting Raspberry Peach smoothie, with a Real Raspberry Whip on the tail end, the coughing is over before your done exhaling, leaving you already experiencing the stone, as if in slow motion, before your lungs refill, as we finish the bowl you giggle to yourself, and suddenly start spouting profound poetry before announcing your going to grab a snack and get to work! .... Osmosis! LOL..... Heavy on the head, yet a creative Productive Stone .... fun, uplifting, but stomach rumbling, pain numbing, idea exploring ganja! It lives up to its name, if Sativa were Day, and Indica were Night, than Twilight (the bud) would be right after Sunset 

The lengths of the Stone is approximately the lengths between the smoke report posts....


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## StickyMango (Dec 16, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Twilight :
> 
> As soon as you start to draw the smoke it, its hitting you, its very strong peach raspberry taste is covering your tongue YOUR MIND...... The raspberry and the peach tastes build stronger and more specific and detailed the longer you pull smoke, and when you pull the carb....  .... Pause... When you pull the carb on a bong, the oxygen and smoke mixes dramatically in the basin where the water is and the smoke close to your mouth stirs faster swirling compacting under the pressure of your lungs inhaling...... SO, right at That Moment when they mix and the smoke condences, The most Powerful Hash Taste Explodes out from the center of your tongue!!!! an by the time your done inhaling the O2 and clearing out the bong, Your BAKED, your squeeking repetitively, you feel your eyes bulge and redden, and you look down as you replace the bowl in the stem and cough out the most Raspberrie Tasting Raspberry Peach smoothie, with a Real Raspberry Whip on the tail end, the coughing is over before your done exhaling, leaving you already experiencing the stone, as if in slow motion, before your lungs refill, as we finish the bowl you giggle to yourself, and suddenly start spouting profound poetry before announcing your going to grab a snack and get to work! .... Osmosis! LOL..... Heavy on the head, yet a creative Productive Stone .... fun, uplifting, but stomach rumbling, pain numbing, idea exploring ganja! It lives up to its name, if Sativa were Day, and Indica were Night, than Twilight (the bud) would be right after Sunset
> 
> The lengths of the Stone is approximately the lengths between the smoke report posts....


A++ My friend, this sounds like my kind of shit


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 17, 2009)

Dude lol I hope you don't take this the wrong way but when I was reading your current description of the twilight, all I could think about was stewey from family guy saying cool whip with the emphasis on the h instead of the w on whip. Cracked me up, I'm baked off the kush as we speak. Love the reports mayne.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 17, 2009)

funny you say that..... was watching Family Guy when I posted it! LOL


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 17, 2009)

Lol I knew something sounded right. Maybe the way you made the raspberri whip on your tounge. I was just in a family guy trance hahah.


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## Bublonichronic (Dec 17, 2009)

damn loaded... everytime i read your thread i need to go burn another bowl, lol...you should be a smoke critic for high times bro


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 17, 2009)

Hightimes is of my least favorite cannabis magazines......... I live by the Golden Rule "treat others as you would have yourself treated." And in that Respect, Hightimes is Nothing, and can suck my dick.


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## Bublonichronic (Dec 17, 2009)

lol, damn.. high time do you wrong in the past? that is the only mag. im farmilular with so..but even most seed banks could use some decent reviews to better help the choosing process, also was wondering in that flower room of yours how many watts u got in there? im sure it says somewhere but m to lazy to search


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 17, 2009)

there is a 1000W burning now, there is 2 of them, just only one being used right now..... And I plan on doing some vertical additions in between them


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## wonderblunder (Dec 17, 2009)

I bet you have explained this but will you re explain these "vertical additions" Vertical lighting or walls?


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## greenthumb111 (Dec 18, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> I bet you have explained this but will you re explain these "vertical additions" Vertical lighting or walls?


I tried a CC smoke report in my journal. Wow!


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## Earl (Dec 18, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Widow Cindy:
> 
> As you light it and start to draw in the smoke you feel a warm tingling sensation start at the center of the tongue and spread outward, but the tingly sensation dulls out as you continue to draw smoke in (bong) and instead you feel a warm sweet sensation on your tongue, and you pull the carb, the fresh air comes in and hits like a blast, as the oxygen mixes with the smoke as it goes down your throat your nerve clusters in the back of the throat become more sensitive to the feeling of Heat, and the smoke and air expand in your lungs the sweet warm sensation on your tongue the whole time..... Holding it in as long as you can, basking in the warm sweetness, until the smoke explodes out of you, screaming out your lungs and a light burning sensation on the back of the throat, BubbleGumJuicyFruit smell/taste completely saturating every millimeter of sensitive tissue in your mouth, causing it to water as you cough little bits dribble out onto the floor and your looking down at it, Head Swimming in a spiral of delight, a Huge rush goes through your spine and your mind, and a burst of energy comes forth as you look up, forced to stand, dazed for a second and confused about what really just happened you hand the bong to me and utter gruffly "tastes good" before coughing a couple times and resuming your seat........ you can actually feel the Cannabinoids literally dancing around in your brain, little shoots of sensations going from the fore to the rear of the mind, then down your spine and out through every line of nerves in your body, your conscious simply one step behind your reactions to the hit...... we smoke some more, until we are both lagging on out rips, 2 bowls and we stare at each other silent, zoned out on our individual perceptions of each other, feeling the stone, building up hunger, before we break for food...... mmm food...... Widow Cindy is a sure Delight! "racy head stone" of C-99 is definitely present, with WW undertones very sweetly delectible


You should be a seed saleman.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 18, 2009)

Earl said:


> You should be a seed saleman.
> .



If I didn't hate money so much..... lol..... just work to keep the bills paid and do what I gotta..... save and reuse and recycle everything that I possibly can! Other than that..... I would burn it all..... indeed, if the rest of the world could grasp REALITY, and realize that Money is absolutely not necesssary for a functioning productive healthy civilization and society, then I would say BURN IT ALL!!!

The seeds sell themselves 

Any Comments Earl on how you think they came out based on what you can see and the descriptions?


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## Earl (Dec 18, 2009)

I think they came out great,
you did a really good job.

I hope you can keep the genetics going.

If you cross any exotic males to some of those strains
I want to be in your test pilot program.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 18, 2009)

I think Both WC and CC have excellent breeding potential..... finding their match is what is so difficult for me.... lol..... watered most of the girls in veg.... PK cuttings are really rooting well..... and the next batch of cuttings is on its way...... steady as she goes......... cold outside.... 76-78 degrees in the flower room....... 37-42% humidity......... perfect.... really wish I had the equipment to throw some extra CO2 in there......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 18, 2009)

So between Last night and today, everything in the veg room got water today..... Truly about to take a set of cuttings tonight 

First 3 pics are kind of part of the before pics, since I haven't gotten to the cuttings quite yet, and they have grown some......

Pics 4-7 are the Chemo Cindy Seedlings

the last pics are group shots of the Maui Skunk and Twilight seedlings.....

Today marks a rounded off Day 1 veg for them all...... and should be ready to transplant in just over two weeks.... maybe less, they got watered last night


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 18, 2009)

I just fed the ladies in flower...... they stand thus:

Maui Skunk Mother 2 wks 4 days (38" tall woven through side netting, right on center isle, looking good  )

Twilight Mother 2 wks 4 days (42" tall woven through side netting, corner next to Hygrometer, did not enjoy being woven through netting, coming back very nicely  )

Chemo Cindy 2 wks even (36" tall, she was hit by spidermites right before she went into flower, they have been removed, she was stunted but is recovering nicely, shower development similar to flowering during verg, she is topped with three to five main colas)

Jack Herer 1 (wide bushed out) 2 wks even (30" tall, she is almost 30" wide one way, 14" the other, she stinks to high hell, real good, lovely plant, very vigorous)

Jack Herer 2 (tall, skinnier, still nicely bushed out) 1 wk 5 days (34" tall, she is more rounded with more equal development structurally, Another Lush Lovely stinky plant  )

They were fed 1.2 tspns per gallon Cal Mag +

Then fed 1.5 tspns per gallon Bio Bizz All Mix

Now would be a good time to note that the Jack Herers are putting out the "Jack Herer Smell" Super yummy skunky,


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## neoShogun911 (Dec 18, 2009)

did the Maui make seeds? i am very interested to see what comes out of your little "Blueberry" experiment


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 18, 2009)

I got 1 seed from the Maui Skunk cross that I did.... just one, and it is beautiful healthy and viable!! Back crossing it (if its a male) with Maui skunk would be very desirable..... or possibly with a male Maui Skunk if its a female... not sure.......... saving the seed of course....... got enough seedlings to deal with for the moment  ...... and plenty of clone action going.... I am staying under limits which is Key of course..... Things should really get moving along in the next month here.......I have been waiting for it 

The Purple Kush that is going into flower may not be going into flower until this upcoming Wednesday or Thursday...... I need to see more healthy shoots in the center ..... she was watered last night........ seems fairly happy and she is putting out lush new growth, more dense node spacing ....... give her some Fish Mix and Cal Mag a day or two before she goes into flower.....


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 18, 2009)

Some After shots from taking cuttings.... bottom trimming, approximately 17% of plant mass, 65% of lower extremities growth.....

15 each was taken from the Chemo Cindies.... they should be ready to go into flower in a week  

And 6 were taken from the Maui Skunk that is one sided   

PK cuttings almost completely rooted.... they will be ready for transplant starting next week! ... then start vegging just a couple days after that


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## bender420 (Dec 19, 2009)

Very nice pictures, great new camera. Also I suppose some of these review would be used in the book.

Never thought I would be picking up on writing skills from a bud growing forum. Cheers.


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## neoShogun911 (Dec 19, 2009)

lol now i know im slacking, your useing a picture that i didnt take for you avatar 
looking good bro, looking REAL good


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks..... Im Happy 

[youtube]yU_1RZ7pNSQ[/youtube]


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 19, 2009)

Freaking AMAZING song there TLD loving it.


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## curious old fart (Dec 19, 2009)

Killer grow, good tunes. Thank you

peace 
cof


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## Drella (Dec 19, 2009)

thanks for the lollypopping picks, ladies looking great.


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 20, 2009)

Nice Dragon. Your putting on a clinic here.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 20, 2009)

Im not sure what you mean RDRFN420....

Have I not posted a smoke report on the Chemo Cindy yet?? I just browsed the last 4 pages and didn't see it...... have I done it yet? Is it really there and Im just too stoned to see it for what it is? lol.... if not, remind me later and I will post one


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## greenfirekilla420 (Dec 20, 2009)

i thought you did all 4 in that one day TLD. 

:


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 20, 2009)

Not sure

Cuz Chemo Cindy gets my head fuzzy like this.....

[youtube]QiI2P-ZRCds[/youtube]

and then Nothing makes sense but food, love, and sleep


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## wonderblunder (Dec 20, 2009)

Looks good, really coming along


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## greenthumb111 (Dec 21, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Not sure
> 
> Cuz Chemo Cindy gets my head fuzzy like this.....and then Nothing makes sense but food, love, and sleep


I know exactly what you mean.


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## ReAVeR (Dec 21, 2009)

looks like I should be expecting another beautiful round in another 10-11 weeks?


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## wonderblunder (Dec 21, 2009)

What are you talking about reaver?


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## Bublonichronic (Dec 21, 2009)

ahha...loaded, lonley island...my favorite song is "like a boss" whole album is funny shit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NisCkxU544c


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 21, 2009)

I think The Lonely Island lyrics when interpreted in a certain way, unlocks some very deep, very profound truths that everyone should realize and address.....

Like A Boss.....

and my Personal Favorite.... So many profound implications... 

[youtube]R7yfISlGLNU[/youtube]

I love this one too .... though I don't see a whole lot of profound or in depth concepts being presented in this one... I was going to post this one last night, but I past out... lol.....

[youtube]KpMPFGBtE7Q[/youtube]


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## DST (Dec 21, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Hightimes is of my least favorite cannabis magazines......... I live by the Golden Rule "treat others as you would have yourself treated." And in that Respect, Hightimes is Nothing, and can suck my dick.


haha^^^^I agree (however. I don't even think I would let them near me boy- lol)

Hey TLD, just dropping past to give you my regards for the festive season. Off to the mountains for a few days over Xmas. Closing the door on the room tomorrow night for 4 days Should be right...just done some fimming and topping so will be good to see what comes of them whilst I am away.

All seems cool in your grow crib. I read something about vertical...will be interesting to see what you come up with..

Peace,

DST


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 21, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Im not sure what you mean RDRFN420....


A clinic, a workshop, schooling us, knocking it out of the park, killng it! lol Get it now?


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## baggednismo (Dec 21, 2009)

lol the smoke reports are fantastic
love the organization and cleanliness of your grow room
great detail through out your updates

I truly feel as if I learned a lot just reading through your thread. keep up the good work +rep


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 21, 2009)

thank you heartily..... haven't updated for a few days so I should be ready here pretty soon..... I got A LOT going on..... in case anyone forgot.... Im due in January...... lots of preparations, and celebrations..... its the holidays, and I am stretched as thin as I get......... Plants are really doing their part coming through for me..... lucky for them, I wouldn't be alive today without them....... or my wife....... I have much to be grateful for.......


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 21, 2009)

Purple Kush clones are rooting bunch are bout ready for transplant into soil..... Vegging plants bout ready to go into flower here in the next couple o days...... seedlings vegging...... Sensi Star is...????...... chillin I guess, taking her sweet ass time...... CC cuttings starting to root.... PK getting ready for flower, she is taking her time as well..... I think I will take pics Wednesday?


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## dgk4life (Dec 21, 2009)

sounds like a plan man.. i just tripped my main room as of this afternoon.. 3 days veg under the 1000 watt hps brought them up to snuff.. only runnin 32 this time but should pull just as much right.. 32 plants under the same watts as 45 should give me close to the same right?

i only think this bc less plants same light should give me similar results since 45 produced 3.5-4 under 2000 watts. so less plants same food = same output right?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 21, 2009)

less plants filling up the same area absorbing the same amount of light (or putting it to good use) with enough food, but not too much, and yeah, you should see same or better results..... I have been reading up on, and experimenting with, SOG growing a lot in the last couple years.... From experience in comparison grows I can say that larger plants that are trained produce more tops, as apposed to smaller single cola plants in smaller pots, that produce more weight, especially considering lower bud density and weights when you compare the two techniques. We are talking about with 1000W here, comparison shows that small 4 inch pots with single lollipopped colas under 600W out produced larger bushed/trained plants


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## dgk4life (Dec 21, 2009)

i admit i have not done much reading as far as advanced techniques etc..i figure when im ready i will experiment.. one thing i myself have learned and done..(im sure its already benn done.. if not i patened it my dgk method) but i lolli then once they r done wit their growth spirt i tie all branches up around the cola so they get max light efficiency.. but yeah i fig same amt light less plants will produce same since im feeding 32 the same food ( food as in light cuz no matter the nutes the light is their food) i fed to 42 .. ya know


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## smokingrubber (Dec 22, 2009)

Looking fantastic TLD. Thanks for sharing the journey. I'll be watching the next one. Grow big!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 22, 2009)

Update  For veg room.... some pics.... PK's got Fish Mix at 1/2 strength, Blue Dream got fish mix at 1/4 strength, 6 PK cuttings are now clones in 5 gal pots .... More vegetative growth on the Sensi Star, I am very happy about that..... Silverback clones are all in 1 gallon pots under 400W MH (on the left side of the 2 that are next to each other) 4 Jack herers remain, still nursing them. Moving things around  now just gotta clean in there and I will feel better 

Seedlings are doing very well half way through their first week in veg,  this is day 4. They are now under the 400W MH on the right hand side, working on their second true node . Front to Back they are Chemo Cindy, Twilight, Maui Skunk, .

the 6 PK cuttings that rooted is half of the first batch that I took, and the other half is right behind it. And the second batch is Right on the first batches heels too.... time to get more soil .


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 22, 2009)

And of course the flowering room has seen some new additions.... week 3 for the older ones 2 for the taller skinnier JH..... The older ladies got watered today, just water ..... the new arrivals all got full strength Fish Mix, watered in. I would say their actual 1st week of flower starts this Thursday (48 hrs from induction)

I am anxiously awaiting the new mixes of aromas in the room .

Im sure now it is easier to see what I meant about the bowl shape..... the center being pushed out to the sides for new arrivals


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## BooMeR242 (Dec 22, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> And of course the flowering room has seen some new additions.... week 3 for the older ones 2 for the taller skinnier JH..... The older ladies got watered today, just water ..... the new arrivals all got full strength Fish Mix, watered in. I would say their actual 1st week of flower starts this Thursday (48 hrs from induction)
> 
> I am anxiously awaiting the new mixes of aromas in the room .
> 
> Im sure now it is easier to see what I meant about the bowl shape..... the center being pushed out to the sides for new arrivals



lookin great and bushy TLD


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 22, 2009)

Wow those are some monsters. Was the one on the left with the long stock a mother or did it stretch that much? I love how bushy the new additions are.


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## Earl (Dec 23, 2009)

Looking real good in there.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 23, 2009)

the one on the left is the Maui Skunk Mother  none of the plants have stretched too much.... the two mothers are tied over in the corners


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## Drella (Dec 23, 2009)

looking great bro, always nice to have new smells!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 24, 2009)

You never expect the unexpected........ and suddenly I become aware that it is about that time...... Saddening to me, but sacrifice for progress and the sake of that which is most valuable..... the love is still there, just not the priority.... Holding my own and happy with that, I'll "Walk On" in the words of some one I respect, "Walk On, and Walk Tall!" ....... Keeping it real... Overgrow.... Rise against the machine..... Live, Learn, and Love one another, appreciate what is Real, and strive for positive progress, work hard and work together...... one day, some day...... My location remains the same


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## dgk4life (Dec 24, 2009)

what happened bro?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 24, 2009)

nothing bro,  ....... just time to go to sleep..... .......


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## don2009 (Dec 24, 2009)

yeah i just looked at the clock and said holy shitttt c'ya 2morrow


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## Bublonichronic (Dec 24, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> You never expect the unexpected........ and suddenly I become aware that it is about that time...... Saddening to me, but sacrifice for progress and the sake of that which is most valuable..... the love is still there, just not the priority.... Holding my own and happy with that, I'll "Walk On" in the words of some one I respect, "Walk On, and Walk Tall!" ....... Keeping it real... Overgrow.... Rise against the machine..... Live, Learn, and Love one another, appreciate what is Real, and strive for positive progress, work hard and work together...... one day, some day...... My location remains the same


 wise words


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## Drella (Dec 24, 2009)

Bublonichronic said:


> wise words


defntly wise, i need to get some of that! happy holidays guys!


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## Jerry Garcia (Dec 25, 2009)

merry christmas to you and yours TLD...


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 26, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> You never expect the unexpected........ and suddenly I become aware that it is about that time...... Saddening to me, but sacrifice for progress and the sake of that which is most valuable..... the love is still there, just not the priority.... Holding my own and happy with that, I'll "Walk On" in the words of some one I respect, "Walk On, and Walk Tall!" ....... Keeping it real... Overgrow.... Rise against the machine..... Live, Learn, and Love one another, appreciate what is Real, and strive for positive progress, work hard and work together...... one day, some day...... My location remains the same


You are gifted with words TLD. I hope your Christmas was wonderful.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 26, 2009)

Thank you.... all of you 

The statement was meant to be interpreted multiple ways simultaneously  as was the following one.

Christmas was/is wonderful, . I hate presents, but love family, . Love to give what I can to my family. And I feel as though I succeeded at that this Christmas, .

To anyone that reads this:
May your heart be so blessed as ours, the fruit of life born upon it, with the euphoric sensations of trepidation and turpitude melting away as the flames of laughter and love lick its icicle grips away from its encumbrances lusty decadence, that you realize the moments truth, and you feel it Real, disallowing inurnment treatments of the experiences, ad infinitum to tap stimulating motivation for positive progress, or simply to attain the momentary nirvana, the moment of forever, that we share, together, for now, these most precious increments of perceptible life.


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## notoriousb (Dec 26, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Thank you.... all of you
> 
> The statement was meant to be interpreted multiple ways simultaneously  as was the following one.
> 
> ...


I do love life, and love getting lost on the strange ride it is with people who actually put their mind to use. peace to you and your family, TLD 

& have a happy new years!


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## Katatawnic (Dec 26, 2009)

Yeah, Bah Humbug to you, too!


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 27, 2009)

speaking of Bah Hum bug..... yet, on a completely unrelated note.....

I was very saddened this evening.

It had been awhile........

So I looked up the definitions of "Freedom", "Liberty", and "Free"

So very saddened.

Has our language and conceptual communication and practical application diminished to the point that such Pillar words fall upon deaf ears? Is the Implementations of Social Separatism not noticed?

[youtube]Cs2hkHtK7Vw[/youtube]


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 27, 2009)

Infrastructure.... disseminated... Aggregated... series of defects..... Credulous Masses encircle the Brink of realizing in understanding the true meaning of "slavery" as it sits on the other side of our current perspectives many facades and unwisely or witted submition to such common beliefs.

Do we just sit and watch our next generations be authoritatively learned all the way through?


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## wonderblunder (Dec 27, 2009)

Glad to have the Holidays over! Wonderful to spend some time with the ones you love. My first X-ms with the in-laws(had ducked it for years). Enjoyed the holiday to its fullest, good food, good drink, good people. Hope all is well. Merry X mas TLD


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 27, 2009)

You got to love the in-laws. It took a couple years from me to develop a decent relationship with mine..I am 39 and my wife is 26(she was 22 when we met). So they were a little judgemental at first, but now we are one big happy family.  We had a great time together this year. I am glad to hear that you too wonder, had good in-law experience this year.


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## DST (Dec 27, 2009)

Glad you had a nice Xmas TLD....heres to it carrying on to Hogmanay and throughout 2010. Peace, DST


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## dgk4life (Dec 27, 2009)

Hogmanany?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 27, 2009)

Matching messages to music.... the oh so many messages...... if YOU choose to understand   ...... yes, Im talking to You           



[youtube]hlLesjFX2Ic[/youtube]


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## dgk4life (Dec 27, 2009)

to me????? lol


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 27, 2009)

Yep, to everyone, specifically and generally


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 27, 2009)

I have been denying myself access to, or use of, a portable Cd player (discman, I'm not a big fan of ipods etc.) for almost 8 years...... for very self conscious reasons....... its like a hole in my heart getting larger and larger...... I want to get one now, I feel the Need..... so badly I lust for it.... and then if I do, everything changes...... It makes me scared, but I have to try..... its the only thing I can think of, its my last resort....... and I am not eagerly anticipating this juggling act....... Im not looking forward to it, looking in the mirror, and I see it there, as the future dawns on me..... I will still be there... in my eyes, hiding...... my heart hidden once more..... wrapped in the blanket of music, hidden behind the ferocity in my eyes, the only gateway besides the ears, blocked off...... Drawing the energy in....... the gaping hole, it opened up, growing into my mind again, sucking Me in........

I hate you


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## Jerry Garcia (Dec 27, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I have been denying myself access to, or use of, a portable Cd player (discman, I'm not a big fan of ipods etc.) for almost 8 years...... for very self conscious reasons....... its like a hole in my heart getting larger and larger...... I want to get one now, I feel the Need..... so badly I lust for it.... and then if I do, everything changes...... It makes me scared, but I have to try..... its the only thing I can think of, its my last resort....... and I am not eagerly anticipating this juggling act....... Im not looking forward to it, looking in the mirror, and I see it there, as the future dawns on me..... I will still be there... in my eyes, hiding...... my heart hidden once more..... wrapped in the blanket of music, hidden behind the ferocity in my eyes, the only gateway besides the ears, blocked off...... Drawing the energy in....... the gaping hole, it opened up, growing into my mind again, sucking Me in........
> 
> I hate you


I realize this is not the point but how can you not like ipods? It's like a discman, except it's 1/5 the size and holds every CD you own. They make non ipod-brand mp3 players too...just throwing that out there.

Either way I would view this opportunity as a new adventure...certainly nothing to fear. Sequestering yourself from society can be a good thing once in a while...


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## dgk4life (Dec 27, 2009)

in a way arent all us growers sequestered from society? a minority for the better good.. revolutionarys almost


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## notoriousb (Dec 27, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> in a way arent all us growers sequestered from society? a minority for the better good.. revolutionarys almost


this should go into the mj book of quotes that's not written yet


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## dgk4life (Dec 28, 2009)

there may not be a book yet but maybe u could write it.. or maybe put it in your sig bro.. revolutions gotta start somewhere.. as to u loaded go wit the biggest ipod u can u will love to have as much music as you want at yourfinger tips.. thats what i got a ton of music and havent even touched the memory yet


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

there is something about the reciprocation of a set of music flowing back into itself that seems to make a difference.... A huge difference, an opportunity to re experience with keener insight.

the funny thing is.....

I have been sequestered, indeed my isolation is matched by my introverted obsolete character.

Its just that my nature, my heart, is dangerous to my disposition. That my heart will lye locked in battle of despair, will, and desire.... that my mind will continue on in autopilot, while my soul jumps out, floats amongst the passage of time, to bear witness to the mutilating of Righteousness and Justice, Freedom Liberty and True Prosperity.

I have felt my entire life as though I am just holding it all back, Always, just holding "it" all back. The times with the Discman, I allow my Being to float away, nothing to hold back, as "it" it freed via an alternative avenue, released back unto its source so to speak, rather than be manifested into a reality we commonly perceive. What really scares me is the ramifications of manifestation.


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## DST (Dec 28, 2009)

dgk4life said:


> Hogmanany?


Hogmanay = The New Years night!!!


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## Jerry Garcia (Dec 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> the funny thing is.....
> 
> I have been sequestered, indeed my isolation is matched by my introverted obsolete character.


I gathered that from your first post. 

Introverted &#8800; Obsolete...

Obsolete has such negative connotations, especially for something as wonderful as wandering through the world of your mind.

Again, its pretty normal to think one way and feel another. Your mind is always working on survival mode...doing whatever is best to protect you and those who share your genes. Your heart, however, sees the inhumanity and suffering in the world, the mutilation of freedom and liberty and whatever else you said, and tries to convince your mind to devote some of your resources on helping the world.

Music is a way of tricking your mind to think like your heart.

Or maybe that's all just BS...


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I gathered that from your first post.
> 
> Introverted &#8800; Obsolete...
> 
> ...


Unfortunately both my heart and my mind agree on this one. That it "...is best to protect you and those who share your genes." and in doing so I MUST address the fact that my "...heart, however, sees the inhumanity and suffering in the world, the mutilation of freedom and liberty and whatever else you said, and tries to convince your mind to devote some of your resources on helping the world." is directly correlated with the aforementioned direction of my mind, Meaning the two, unfortunately, are in unison regarding the situation. That my Children may depend upon this world of suffering to live, and how shall they live?

The connotations of these words, and what they represent, is dependent upon the reader and their conditioning to read and understand what is read under specific contexts and with specific implications regarding independent subject matter, knowing Full and Well the concise and definitive meanings of them.

Introverted was not meant to = obsolete, as that would be redundant. But rather, the introverted portions of my Character have become obsolete over the years, as it has fallen to disuse. Where I live to think I am naturally balanced when it comes to living within as well as outside of myself. When I do explore myself my mind my thoughts and understanding of my perceptions, *I get stuck on the notions of my essence*, and immersed in solving their relative paradoxical manifestations in my life.

Stuck, for hours, stuck for days and months, and I am seen as a different person by those that would think they know me well. It makes them sad, it draws them to attempt to compel me to be "happy". What they don't understand is: My happiness is in the backside of the equation I am trying to figure out, that it plays into the summation of the whole which I strive to find measure to equate to the production of the real world practicing of concepts "unbearable to, and with the last hundred years of generational and social conditioning, seemingly impossible to the average man".


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## Bublonichronic (Dec 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Unfortunately both my heart and my mind agree on this one. That it "...is best to protect you and those who share your genes." and in doing so I MUST address the fact that my "...heart, however, sees the inhumanity and suffering in the world, the mutilation of freedom and liberty and whatever else you said, and tries to convince your mind to devote some of your resources on helping the world." is directly correlated with the aforementioned direction of my mind, Meaning the two, unfortunately, are in unison regarding the situation. That my Children may depend upon this world of suffering to live, and how shall they live?
> 
> The connotations of these words, and what they represent, is dependent upon the reader and their conditioning to read and understand what is read under specific contexts and with specific implications regarding independent subject matter, knowing Full and Well the concise and definitive meanings of them.
> 
> ...


 damn loaded...i dunno if i understand that well enough to comment...but the part that cought me was the last paragraph... i cant help but notice that the more and more i get into growing and the medical movement and what it really stands for.. the people i use to call close "friends" i find myself drifting away from..maybe cause im lookin at life diferently...i dunno im stoned... and it just seems like im going threw a part of life youv already been threw and can put into words better than me


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## DaGambler (Dec 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Stuck, for hours, stuck for days and months, and I am seen as a different person by those that would think they know me well. It makes them sad, it draws them to attempt to compel me to be "happy". What they don't understand is: My happiness is in the backside of the equation I am trying to figure out, that it plays into the summation of the whole which I strive to find measure to equate to the production of the real world practicing of concepts "unbearable to, and with the last hundred years of generational and social conditioning, seemingly impossible to the average man".


A flower that is blooming, but without purpose. Just bloom.

Ur thinking too much. 

Smoke some weed (or don't).

And then seek 'that which is between two thoughts'.

No use pouring all ur energy out ur eyes - or into your words.  . 

You do remind me or when i used to be a poet. The fires eventually burn low.
.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

yes, but it is my passion for words that drives me, , thanks for the visit


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## Drella (Dec 28, 2009)

reading your posts is like high school when i watched fear and loathing in las vegas on acid. Defn an experience, im glad i visit, what a great place to share your thoughts. this is definitely a time for deep thoughts, and i wanna hear them. not just "skrew obama!", but what's really going on. that's why i check this thread every day. we are amongst peers, in an almost perfect utopia, it is what we make it, or grow it.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

I kept a qp from the last harvest for my medicinal use. I kept mostly Widow Cindy, and am glad I did..... divied up the rest between the patients, and they are very very pleased . I kept the top cola from the Chemo Cindy....... but have smoked most of it already  ......... I yearn for the Twilight the most, as that is what I kept the least of, and only have one nugget in the jar, waiting........ more to come though, and that's always nice . I am well stocked until next harvest, maybe a little too stoned all the time......

Just so happens this is the most convenient place to keep a journal .

Spidermites entered the Flowering room!  

Its that time of year. Too cold for them outside. I am lowering temps in there, keeping humidity higher, and am going to apply a garlic spray in a couple days...... that and clean the whole room, and give them all showers until the mites are gone, I will probably introduce some ladybugs as well......... Chemo Cindy is Spidermite friendly, that is her one downfall..... Twilight and Maui Skunk are fairly resistant, and Jack Herer is also fairly resistant. Blue Dream seems to be completely unbothered by them thus far.

I have been watching the spidermites "move in" over the last week and a half, I procastinated dealing with them appropriately until now....... should be fun...... they are centered on the Chemo Cindy mother, and barely spread to the Twilight and Maui Skunk at her sides, almost ready to spring out to the newly arrived plants!


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## TCurtiss (Dec 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> I kept a qp from the last harvest for my medicinal use. I kept mostly Widow Cindy, and am glad I did..... divied up the rest between the patients, and they are very very pleased . I kept the top cola from the Chemo Cindy....... but have smoked most of it already  ......... I yearn for the Twilight the most, as that is what I kept the least of, and only have one nugget in the jar, waiting........ more to come though, and that's always nice . I am well stocked until next harvest, maybe a little too stoned all the time......
> 
> Just so happens this is the most convenient place to keep a journal .
> 
> ...


You talk of a garlic spray, could you provide a recipe please?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

garlic


water


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## TCurtiss (Dec 28, 2009)

Ummmmmmmmmmmm ok

How much of each?

Like 2 to 1 water vs garlic? 

Do you crush them up?

Please elaborate if you could


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## dgk4life (Dec 28, 2009)

lmao lol lol lol ... +rep loaded


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

I have said it already in a few spots..... Sorry I was sarcastic....

But of course, there are many different ways to do it, and amounts..... different ingredients you can add even.... like a few drops of non antibacterial dish soap for example...... or tobacco water etc.

1 tblspn minced garlic (like you buy for cooking) per liter of water, I don't really go above that amount.

Best sprayed on just about 1/2 hr before lights out....... and sprayed off with a grip of water at lights out (remember keep those circ. fans going  )

Even better to remove them outdoors or somewheres else, and do the spraying there, while sterilizing the flowering room. I don't have that option because of the vertical Scrog, but I will be cleaning the room best I can until they are harvested and out and I can remove all the other plants and do multiple full sterilizations, Bleach & vinegar and water .

There are commercial garlic sprays that are pre-concentrated that you can just add water to as well.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

you don't have to just go with that...... just google "garlic spider mites" and check out the results..... if you sort through the first 3 pages of results your bound to find links to empirical data backing it up......I have gotten rid of them before..... they kind of come and go.... always a bitch when they come though, it pisses me off..... just means a couple hrs less of quality time with my favorite ladies...... sucks.......


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## TCurtiss (Dec 28, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> you don't have to just go with that...... just google "garlic spider mites" and check out the results..... if you sort through the first 3 pages of results your bound to find links to empirical data backing it up......I have gotten rid of them before..... they kind of come and go.... always a bitch when they come though, it pisses me off..... just means a couple hrs less of quality time with my favorite ladies...... sucks.......


Thanks I just did that but it seems some links are not working tonight

Thanks for the info


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

ok well..... I use this kind.....

http://www.npk.ltd.uk/garlic.htm


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## Drella (Dec 28, 2009)

great advice loaded, defn gonna keep that simple, organic tool in mind.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

hehe... thanks, 

I Love these seedlings . Front to back: Chemo Cindy, Twilight, Maui Skunk Today is day 11 Veg, and they will double in size by day 17, . I am going to give them a 1/4 strength Thrive Alive feeding just before Transplant at 17 days, then they won't need nutes for another two weeks that , they were watered today. See some Mommas in der?

and next to them is a whole batch of Silverbacks that somehow survived the Thrive Alive incident..... lol, they are in one gallon pots, a couple are almost ready for transplant, then about a week to settle into their new pots before going into flower......

the entire first batch of PK cuttings (12) are now transplanted, under fluorescent bulbs, the following batch quick at their heels.....

The batch of Chemo Cindy and Maui Skunk clones had been knocked over somehow a few days ago, they are recovering, and should still root......

Jack Herer clones are starting to come around 

I got depressed and didn't water the PK when I should have, and a bunch of leaves wilted.... it was the holidays and I was super busy and tired, couple days recovery and she will be fine (the mother PK I am talking about), the root system on her sister (the one going into flower), and the amount of biomass on her being considerably less, her media stayed moist enough between the waterings so she had no ill effects , the Blue Dream shot up after the litte bit of nutes I gave them last week, and got a little too close to the bulb, so I raised it. I am starting to think that the Econowings reflectors film wasn't completely removed, as directly above the bulb there is some wierd looking shit there .

Those Flowering Rooms are going to be FULL though .

Most everything in veg was watered today, accept the Jacks, and recent PK transplants.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

the first couple pics show the size and relative structure they are going into the flowering room , pictured is Maui Skunk, 

I will start with close ups next week or so.....

see lowering temps, slowly raising RH 

I will shower them tomorrow, and use Freezing cold water..... and I am letting night time temps drop into the mid to low 50's at night now  the RH will level off around 55 % at night at well... 

*Everything in the flowering room got watered today , just water..... its week 4 for elders, start of 2nd week for newcomers*, lets watchem stretch shall we?


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## Earl (Dec 29, 2009)

Are you dropping the temp to add color ?


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 29, 2009)

They look healthy and bushy. They look ready to grow some beautiful buds. Do you always drop the temps down so low during flower?


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 29, 2009)

nope.... its a response to Spidermite activity, a deterrent


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## notoriousb (Dec 29, 2009)

what would you say is the ideal temp and humidity to slow mite activity TLD?


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## northeastern lights (Dec 29, 2009)

That Maui Skunk is looking good


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 29, 2009)

well at lights on temps were 53 degrees, RH was at 67%, the Temps bottomed out at 48 degrees last night, and RH peaked at 69% (my hygrometer is set to save daily highs and lows  )

Lights on, Below 75, I try to keep it between 71-73, with RH of 50-60 % ..... yesterday the RH bottomed out at 39%, and temps peaked at 76 degrees

Keeping good air circulation the whole time 

Thanks bout the Maui Skunk...... Twilight sure is a prize winner as well


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## Drella (Dec 29, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> nope.... its a response to Spidermite activity, a deterrent


good knowledge from a SM vetran, thanks!


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## Drella (Dec 29, 2009)

looking great in there, i like how you're not scared of the uneven canopy, worth the hard work! do you try to get the newcomers tops even with the old timers? or do you let them get their initial stretch?


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## DaGambler (Dec 29, 2009)

i wonder if the cold temps seriously adversely affect the growth and/or flowering of the plants... I run my lights at night (and thereby need no heat at night time) but allow the room to go as cold as 45 degrees during the daytime (lights off) hours. I don't suppose it helps them any. 
.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 29, 2009)

no its not good for the root environment to get below 65 degrees, harmful bacteria begins to develop at faster rates 

I am growing in soil. Soil retains temperature a bit better than some other media. Especially since I am using black pots.

as far as the foliage, temps as low as 45 will only slow Auxin movement considerably rather than actually damage the plant or cause necrosis, and once lights on resumes and temps climb, the Auxin build up is less, and shoots out throughout the plant faster. unless your dealing with a pest like SM, its best not to let night time temps dip below 60 degrees for optimal stimulus growth. The main concern being your media temps (67-72 degrees optimum).


As far as the canopy goes, the perpetual end of the flowering technique I am using allows for a "constant flow of plants" through the room. Starting with the 5 that I did (the 1st set), they are topping out at 5 1/2 ft. The plants in the center are the 2nd set, they are stretching right now, and about 55% of the sq ft of the box is being used. They should be about done with their stretch in a week or so from now (two and a half weeks from start of 12/12), and at that time I will move the plants so they form more of a ring around the center of the box. I will fill the center of the box at this time with the 3rd set of plants (not having to move the light the entire time). This will put me at roughly 6 weeks flower on the Eldest of flowering plants (the 1st set), so after the initial 2 1/2 week stretch of the 3rd set of plants, the 1st set will be harvested, the 3rd set will be pushed out to the side previously occupied by the 1st set, being replaced in the center by the 4th set, and the 4th set will push out to replace the 2nd set, and the 5th set will replace the 3rd set and so on...... <<<<<< *This perpetual technique creates a constantly Bowl shaped canopy which provides for the most optimum use of my light* . It also makes calculating the yields vs. amnt of light and time used very difficult however :/


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## Drella (Dec 29, 2009)

i love how you spell out perpetual, i like your style. now it's clear, im doing a similar setup, but didn't know if i needed the second string to be even with the first. great facts on how soil retains heat and auxin movement, happy growing brother. you're keeping a perpetual flow of facts for many in need.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 29, 2009)

the idea is to harvest every 3 weeks or so..... the harvest weights will fluctuate a good bit because I will be using different strains and different number of plants of each strain in each set, so its hard to guess at what I would harvest each time on avg as well.... but we'll find out together .


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## Drella (Dec 29, 2009)

the fact is you're living you're dream, growing perpetually. giving all of the green love you got in you to these plants, they know and love it. can't stop thinking about that twilight, damn!


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 29, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> no its not good for the root environment to get below 65 degrees, harmful bacteria begins to develop at faster rates
> 
> I am growing in soil. Soil retains temperature a bit better than some other media. Especially since I am using black pots.
> 
> ...


How long do you plan on keeping the temps down to kill the SM? So you will be harvesting every two-three weeks? That is a true perpetual, I can't imagine all the work to keep that going man, props to you for all the TLC you are putting into your girls. I continue to learn from you.


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## theloadeddragon (Dec 29, 2009)

Probably be keeping the temps lower for the next 6 weeks. 4 weeks like I am doing it now, then for two weeks I will let it get up to 75-76 in the room. Its the RH that I can't hold high for much longer. It was pretty constant at 55-60% all day today, but I can't allow that to continue for much longer...... Its the showers, the cleaning, the sprays that will get rid of them, and I only have the next two weeks to get that done, and get it done right. 

Yeah tons of work keeping it perpetual, and lining up plants for perpetual outdoors as well, and getting the 2nd phase running perpetual as well....... hopefully realistically kicking off phase 3 at the beginning of next fall  ..... but if anyone's read through my time lines throughout the whole journal...... I get behind  lol......

Phase 2 should be a lot of fun for me! watering and feeding should be made a hell of a lot easier, a couple vertical additions in the center isle, I will be firing up the 2nd side as well! It kicks off in a month!  That will take it to harvesting once a week. And bulk harvests outdoors. I wasn't able to completely supply my patients with their medicine over the last year.... they had to buy their own on numerous occasion! I would like to prevent that this year, its my resolution! .


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Dec 29, 2009)

theloadeddragon said:


> Probably be keeping the temps lower for the next 6 weeks. 4 weeks like I am doing it now, then for two weeks I will let it get up to 75-76 in the room. Its the RH that I can't hold high for much longer. It was pretty constant at 55-60% all day today, but I can't allow that to continue for much longer...... Its the showers, the cleaning, the sprays that will get rid of them, and I only have the next two weeks to get that done, and get it done right.
> 
> Yeah tons of work keeping it perpetual, and lining up plants for perpetual outdoors as well, and getting the 2nd phase running perpetual as well....... hopefully realistically kicking off phase 3 at the beginning of next fall  ..... but if anyone's read through my time lines throughout the whole journal...... I get behind  lol......
> 
> Phase 2 should be a lot of fun for me! watering and feeding should be made a hell of a lot easier, a couple vertical additions in the center isle, I will be firing up the 2nd side as well! It kicks off in a month!  That will take it to harvesting once a week. And bulk harvests outdoors. I wasn't able to completely supply my patients with their medicine over the last year.... they had to buy their own on numerous occasion! I would like to prevent that this year, its my resolution! .


That's awesome brother. I will be along for the ride.


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## wonderblunder (Dec 29, 2009)

I hear ya on medicine shortage. Would like to be able to do the same for my patients. I have a lot of work to do in between now and then. Sounds like things are moving. Keep up the good work!


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## Drella (Dec 30, 2009)

wow, talk about a lot of work. the constant gardener, don't know what that means, but sounds good. outdoor, for real! can't wait to see how you do it. are you thinking of green house. how will you prevent the catipillars that eat your nugs and you can't tell until they've eaten them! good luck, you deserve it!


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## bender420 (Dec 31, 2009)

As always, this thread is moving at light speed. 

All the plans sound great dragon, I always find some words of inspiration here. Cheers. 

Getting ready for a safe new year?


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## Katatawnic (Dec 31, 2009)

Light speed, indeed! I can't keep up!


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## wonderblunder (Dec 31, 2009)

Never thought about the roots needing to stay at certain temps. Good to know. Have a safe and happy new year to all.


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## Drella (Dec 31, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> Never thought about the roots needing to stay at certain temps. Good to know. Have a safe and happy new year to all.


yeah i didn;t know that the soil keeps roots warmer than the room temp makes sense. LD is like a green wizard, experience man, and sharing!


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## DaGambler (Dec 31, 2009)

hey loaded...

you live in Montana right? and grow legally there i guess...

up to 6 plants per patient... and you can have several patients ? if i had some money to my name i'd be looking at moving, bro. This raiderman stuff gots me freak'in out again 

i never planned on doing this long term... but i'm still doing it. other than cally, i'm trying to figure out what the best state actually is... Colorado is also sounding pretty good right now.

 - DaGambler

(EDIT: after some brief research it's looking like Washington would be the best place to be... a person can harvest up to 15 plants... or more if a doctor has given permission to do so.)

(RE-EDIT: shit, can only be a caregive for one person in Washington... needs more research.)

(RE-RE-EDIT: holy shite, dude, i think you may actually be in -the- best medical marijuana state ... information reguarding current Medical Marijuana Laws in Montana (and i quote) "*33. Can patients or caregivers form growing cooperatives? *The law is silent on this issue."

I wanna move to Montana. Rent me a trailer on ur back 40 
.


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## dgk4life (Jan 1, 2010)

yeah montanna   happy new year loaded


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks guys...... 

I have nothing to worry about. Fully legit. I meet with lawyer once a yr, or if anything big is going on, just to keep myself in check, . One of the things that keeps me safest is: No money involved what so ever . I grow for Seriously chronically ill patients that really Can't grow it for themselves. They can't afford to buy it as a regular medication, nor can they afford to purchase the numerous other medications it would take for them to "replace" cannabis. Cannabis, in its medical capacity, has been witnessed and experienced by myself on countless occasions..... to the effect of saving lives, and creating a positive and healthy environment for those in its parameters .


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 1, 2010)

Thus they enjoy the benefits of fine medicinal cannabis free of charge. These are people blessed with beautiful hearts, minds, and souls, who's many contributions to the world and society should only be remember by few, though they are honored by respect, that society let them medicate in peace, and live more fruitful productive healthy and prosperous lives.

Cannabis such as what is pictured below, 1st two are Sensi Star (outdoor 09) second two are Chemo Cindy (with little bit of PK from outdoor 09 propping it up, I am smoking the last of the 09 herb now . On with the new!

SS is great for nausea and appetite, as well as creative uplifting floating functioning daily stone

CC is Gunna put you to sleep, relax your body and tensions or anxieties, get your belly full and off to sleep, waking up feeling refreshed and ready for a good day


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## DST (Jan 1, 2010)

All the best for 2010 TLD. The World needs more lika ya china!!

Peace, DST


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## Earl (Jan 1, 2010)

Those are some dense nuggs there ole buddy.
.


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## greenthumb111 (Jan 1, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> Thus they enjoy the benefits of fine medicinal cannabis free of charge. These are people blessed with beautiful hearts, minds, and souls, who's many contributions to the world and society should only be remember by few, though they are honored by respect, that society let them medicate in peace, and live more fruitful productive healthy and prosperous lives.
> 
> Cannabis such as what is pictured below, 1st two are Sensi Star (outdoor 09) second two are Chemo Cindy (with little bit of PK from outdoor 09 propping it up, I am smoking the last of the 09 herb now . On with the new!
> 
> ...


Happy New Year TLD! Buds are looking good.


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## wonderblunder (Jan 1, 2010)

Happy New Years. 2010..............


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## Drella (Jan 1, 2010)

thanks for the nuggy shots! may you, and you patients thrive and prosper in 2010!


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 2, 2010)

Thank you mucho!  


oh shit... its three in the morning!

Anyways.......

Transplanted 7 rooted PK clones into 1 gallon pots. Transplanted 5 rooted Chemo Cindy clones into 1 gallon pots. Everything in veg got watered. Just about all of the other cuttings will be ready to be transplanted into their first cups in the next couple of days. I ran out of soil...... going to have to get more with a quickness! Im running out of pots again as well..... so I have to go pick up some more....... I really could transplant Most of the cuttings/clones now..... but Im freakin Tired! 

The Silverback Set got Full Strength Thrive Alive B1....... the larger two Purple Kush plants, and the blue Dream got X2 Strength Thrive Alive B1, the Sensi Star cuttings/clones got 1/2 strength Thrive Alive B1. And last but not least, All of the seedlings got 1/2 strength dose of BB Fish Mix, and they will soon be transplanted. I have resigned to the fact that I am going to have to break in the new HPS vegging plants rather than flowering them, as I am running out of space under the veg lights .

Everything in flower will be fed tomorrow .


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## wonderblunder (Jan 2, 2010)

Hey, 
A page or so back the topic of root/medium temperature came up. Looking at these "Smart Pots", they claim to cool down the roots and aerate them. I understand the aeration, but are certain mediums more likely to hold heat or not? 
In other words, I am looking to keep the warmth in the pot(gets a little chilly at night), 

My 2 plants in smart pots are dwarfed compared to the rest. Same coco mix, etc. I think its the pot. 7 gallon smarts


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 2, 2010)

naturally the plants roots are typically in the ground, in soil. Night time temperatures often dip for plants in soil. Cannabis is an extremely acclimatize-able and resilient plant. Most plants, and Indica dominant strains in particular, are resistant to substrate temperatures going as far down as the mid fifties, colder media temps will cause damage to the root systems, and could (if unchecked, and especially during lights on) create harmful bacteria in the medium. Media temperatures below 60 degrees often times slows overall plant development, which I touched on a couple pages back. 

Smart pots are thin? I haven't used them, but think I understand the theory and design etc. If they are thinner, they will retain less heat. If they are more porous, then colder air will penetrate the media easier during colder temperatures, and it will release more of its warmer more humid air through the sides of the bottoms rather than normal top layer transpiration you typically see with normal pots.

The media itself, depending upon its components, should hold temperatures in relation to the amount of salts etc. that passes through it as well, though it will only cause slight variations.

You could cut plastic bags and wrap the pots at nighttime to hold warmer ambient air closer to the pots at lights off. Or you could get a small space heater and turn it on at pot level (or even better, just below pot level if possible) on an internal thermostat.

Another thing to keep in mind when it comes to media temps..... is the indigenous location of the strains, and their natural climate cycles. Depending on the natural climate conditions of the plants origin climates, some strains might "expect" a colder media through out flower as apposed to that of the vegetative season. Or in other words. In the different places in the world that landrace strains come from, it is to be understood that some areas are more temperate than others, more tropical, more polar extreme, and thus, the strains originating from these places after growing there naturally, for God only knows how long, also become accustomed to these climates, and adapt their own life cycles (over the course of generations) to that of their natural environment.

All this having been said. There are generally acceptable ranges for your "avg" cannabis plants, and even more precise ranges for strains we know well .

As always...... It all depends .


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## Drella (Jan 2, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> Thank you mucho!
> 
> 
> oh shit... its three in the morning!
> ...


gardener's dilema, not enough soil, and freaking tired. i feel youre pain there brother!


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## wonderblunder (Jan 2, 2010)

Thanks TLD. Defintely shed some light. Smart Pots are fairly thin 1/8th" felt like material. I have a corrugated mat underneath them to allow airflow, And the media is Coco Coir w/ 30% Perlite added.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 3, 2010)

.........

just to set it aside for a moment...... and let it rest in the mix where it falls..... to focus on things that would seem irrelevant, but is oh so dear to the subject at hand....

To me there is so much more.....

That I overwhelm myself..... and now more then ever so......

That I need guidance, a mentor, and some serious help.....

That I wish my phase of suppression over..... and succumb to the undeniable truth that I cannot do it alone......

But who has been there? Who will go there? And what must I do?

For in a world of so many, so few know to be true the path before them, and even less know well the experience, desire, and character necessary to complete such tasks.... let alone be aware and still humble of having them within.....

I must admit my frailty, my naivety, my ambitious faults. I must admit my fear, my conformity, my suppression. I must make it well known, that I am confused, lost of my own accord, and stumbling, dreary and naked. I am but a child in a supermarket as always. 

The potential is there. And as always I am still reaching out. But who shall clasp it? There is more that is meant to be. Of this I am sure. That a turning point has been reached, I am sure. That I am so full of questions, and scared of their answers, that I remain resolute with confidence in hope, that I am aware of such undertakings and their implications. I do not shy responsibility, but rather, should be educated of its prosperous handling.

And to you J.K Rowling: Thank you. My plants and family would thank you in years to come. were they to know.


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## Drella (Jan 3, 2010)

hell yeah loaded, great advice about putting a plastic bag around pots to retain heat. i wanted to get those smart pots, but if it's a felt like material, idk. sounds like its pretty airy. wonder, if your using coco and perilite, this would explain if there is a stunt, good luck. good facts on those smart pots though, helps me make a better decision if i wanna pick some up.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 3, 2010)

Time to take cuttings from the Blue Dream mother and put her into flower. Time to put the PK into flower. Time to put the Silverbacks into flower.

1st batch PK clones veggin 

2nd batch is settlin in for a couple days, then starts veg.

Transplanting time! 

Almost time to transplant and pinch FIM the seedlings, they will show sex shortly after recovering from it 

Time for things to move more quickly in the journal. Time to finish prepping for phase 2 . Time to Clean the veg room. Time to win the war against the spidermites in the flower room.

I suppose maybe it would have sufficed to say "time to get busy" 

have a good evening will you?


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 4, 2010)

Flowering room first.

See..... second set pushed to sides.

Barely started filling the center...... If I have any extra females from seed, they will be in there by the end of the month ..... 

Lets see.....

*The 5 eldest plants (5+ weeks in flower)* all got 3 tblspns per gal Fox Farms Big Bloom, 1/2 strength Bio Bizz Bloom, and 3/4 Strength Fox Farms Tiger bloom...... at 1/3 gallon of each solution, and watered in with another quart each.

*The Second (2+ weeks in flower)* set got 4 tblspns per gal Fox Farms Big Bloom, and 1/2 strength Bio Bizz Bloom. 1/2 gallon of FF solution, 1/3 gallon BB solution each, watered in with a quart of water each.

*And the new arrivals (today)* all got 2 tblspns per gallon FF BB, 1/4 strength BBB, and 1/2 strength Bio Bizz Fish Mix.... at different amounts of each for each.

All close ups are Jack Herer, accept pictures 817 and 817b, those are Maui Skunk


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Jan 4, 2010)

lookin good my friend. I haven't stopped by in a few days. Thise ladies are really fattening up.


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## neoShogun911 (Jan 4, 2010)

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
hey man looking good, sorry i havnt been able to help much this go around.... i cant wait till i can get you some more pictures


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## DST (Jan 6, 2010)

Hey TLD, just in time for an update. Nice tie up bru!! A friend of mine was growing Jack Herer back 90's, was a killer smoke. Even after 10 weeks it would still be going like nobodies business. How long has it taken to finish your Jack Herers?

Peace bru,

DST


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## BooMeR242 (Jan 6, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> Flowering room first.
> 
> See..... second set pushed to sides.
> 
> ...



great update bro. lots of white hairs poppin up every where. keep it strong


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## wonderblunder (Jan 6, 2010)

Looking real good. Looking real good.,,........


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks All!!  

what a fuckin day!

To start with:

California Assembly Bill 390 Is a Horrible, Detrimental piece of finely woven illusions and Outright Oppression imposing, Human Rights Destroying, manipulative piece of wanna be legislature

VOTE NO on CA AB 390!!!!!

I couldn't voice it loud and clear enough......... we should all pray such flagrant rhetoric is not allowed to dictate and destroy our GOD GIVEN freedoms!


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 7, 2010)

Now Second of all..... It really sucks when.....

Your leaving for the hospital...... leaving for the hospital..... the hospital.... I HATE the Hospital!

Your walking out the door..... The whole world is forgotten, and.......

Damn, we really need to get to the hospital......

as the door opens and the sunlight hits your face though........ Somethings not right......

The Light..... oh yeah, ah fuck...... god damn light....... 10 minutes early.... no big deal, everything will be fine, here we go.....
Put some stuff in the car...... screeching "hurry, hurry baby..... please baby..... I love you, pleace..... please" I KNOW, GOTTA GET TO THE HOSPITAL!! I have to fix those bleary, teary, precious eyes, my emerald forest..... my heart......

but, shit...... smile encouragingly, supportively, as you turn around and, "It will only take a second" Even though You have already ran around like an idiot for ten minutes longer than necessary, in circles basically, just dumbfounded...... scared, trying to pull yourself together and just deal with it.......

Ok, just flip the switch real quick, and out the door...... To the Hospital!

there and......... flip the switch.... and....... false start? Pulse and dies....... fuck....... give it a second, try again....... low humming sound compared to the normal loud "EEIIIIAAAAGGHHH" it normally emits...... FUCK! Check the connections real quick...... FUCK, lights not coming on...... and I Gotta Go To The Hospital, An HOUR AGO........

Fuck! Bulb lights up blue, nothing else...... What else can I do right here right now?......... I got no choice...... Im out the door.......

14 hrs, 7 lb's 9 oz's later......... I look back with revulsion...... revulsion, love, saddness, bliss, nirvana, sacrifice, gratefulness, sorrow, and regret

Why? Why? Why today? I have wanted to cry all day..... all day..... why today? over and over again...... and the thing is...... Im not the only one asking......

what a fuckin day

a moment of silence...... and a bowl smoked....... I am in PAIN my friends...... the light didn't turn on..... the light didn't stay on...... And I will be sleeping alone..... I won't be sleeping at all though...... my heart has drifted away..... it cannot bear me this night..... as my thoughts have turned against me..... light blue waves barely waft about now, the light is gone..... it wouldn't stay on......


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## DST (Jan 7, 2010)

Sounds like a bad day bru, hope today/tomorrow, works out better for ya. Positive vibes from over here to over there. Keep strong.

DST


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 7, 2010)

the plants are fine.......

I actually have an extra bulb and ballast....... I am pretty sure all I need to do is replace the igniter for the home made ballast.

Some lights however, are irresplacable, for when some lights go out, there is no tomorrow.........

Never take those that light Your life for granted. Lest your light go out tomorrow, a lite blue memory every horizon, a flash of emerald green on the landscape, a whisper of a thought uttered in breathe so lightly it is inaudible even in our own souls, but still felt, always felt, understood, and followed.


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## curious old fart (Jan 7, 2010)

Sounds like you have a new daughter, are she and the wife ok?

peace
cof


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## baggednismo (Jan 7, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> Flowering room first.
> 
> See..... second set pushed to sides.
> 
> ...


you say you fed with 3tbl per gal of big bloom, the recomended @ 5 weeks is 1tbl per gal. why did you choose to increase the dosage? your feeding schedule is much higher than FF as far as i can tell


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## wonderblunder (Jan 7, 2010)

Congratulations TLD, Best wishes to your entire family.... 
Smoking on some Sweet Island Skunk and pondering if it is at all similiar to your Maui Skunk? Looks very similar to the finished pics of the Maui......
Once Again, Congratulations and hope all is well.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 8, 2010)

baggednismo said:


> you say you fed with 3tbl per gal of big bloom, the recomended @ 5 weeks is 1tbl per gal. why did you choose to increase the dosage? your feeding schedule is much higher than FF as far as i can tell


they needed it,


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## greenthumb111 (Jan 8, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> they needed it,


Congrats TLD on the new addition to the Dragon Den. Hope wife and baby are fine and will send many positive vibes to you guys.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 9, 2010)

curious old fart said:


> Sounds like you have a new daughter, are she and the wife ok?
> 
> peace
> cof





wonderblunder said:


> Congratulations TLD, Best wishes to your entire family....
> Smoking on some Sweet Island Skunk and pondering if it is at all similiar to your Maui Skunk? Looks very similar to the finished pics of the Maui......
> Once Again, Congratulations and hope all is well.


Thanks.... throw up a pic and lets see your island smoke, it sounds delicious, 



greenthumb111 said:


> Congrats TLD on the new addition to the Dragon Den. Hope wife and baby are fine and will send many positive vibes to you guys.


*HE, is my miracle, such precious joy*. The largest yield from a male I could ever hope to expect to get from a male, of the finest quality genetics can provide.

Thank you very much my friends, 

And on to it:
*
Water all around today*, after a night of wonderful, glorious, comfortable sleep .


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## curious old fart (Jan 9, 2010)

A SON!!!!!!!! Congratulations.......... a new warrior is born

peace
cof


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Jan 9, 2010)

Congrats on the new addition!!


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## northeastern lights (Jan 9, 2010)

Congrats TLD.


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## w1ckedchowda (Jan 9, 2010)

oh snap congrats TLD, just heard about the good news


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 9, 2010)

It'll be about a week before the chaos settles down and I can focus on things a bit more again. I haven't been able to give the plants very much attention at all. I have ensured they live through it though. I look forward to a return to semi normalcy . 

Gotta get a new 1000W HPS ballast...... bulb should be alright.......


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 9, 2010)

Ca AB 390 Read it and Vote No!

https://www.rollitup.org/legalization-marijuana/283329-ab-390-gets-enough-signatures.html


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 9, 2010)

and wonderblunder.......

I wanna see your Island Skunk..... you said it looks similar to my Maui Skunk....... Can I SEE it? Feel free to post pic here 

I took a pic of mine for comparison....


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## DaGambler (Jan 9, 2010)

Some words from theloadeddragon re: the above bill. think i understand his point of view.



theloadeddragon said:


> you read Ca AB 390?





theloadeddragon said:


> AB 390 passes and all 7 of my patients are up a shit creek..... along with about 100,000 other patients in Cali.
> 
> I prey Ca does NOT pass AB 390....
> 
> Did you actually Read the bill?





theloadeddragon said:


> *why would it be bad for patients ? most patients already pay for the marijuana don't they ?*
> 
> *i think i got the gist of it. aside from taxing the hell out of growers... how would it be bad ?*
> 
> ...





theloadeddragon said:


> my patients have had to go else where and buy their meds three times this last year..... this bill passes and they would have to buy their meds once a month......... well they would if they could, but they can't afford it. Most that Truly Need it, can't afford it. As something that typically comes with serious illnesses is unemployment, and disability, i.e. extremely limitted and skimped income. Under AB 390, State programs such as Medi Cal (which provides MOST medical services for those that can't afford it) would have no access to cannabis, forcing them to shell out of pocket roughly the same amount of money they would have to pay for the unhealthy meds with horrible side effects that they are replacing with cannabis and even saving money doing it under the current laws. If it were too expensive to get Cannabis, and the NEED meds, they will be forced to switch back to the more affordable, less healthy, more corporate driving pharmacopeia.
> 
> I have never paid for blackberries, and they actually have pharmaceutical value.


This does seem like something that would only benefit 'Big Tobacco' and the like.
.


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## Drella (Jan 9, 2010)

congrats tld, the legacy lives on, i can only hope to be blessed with a healthy baby boy one day. been married for three years, but one day!


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## wonderblunder (Jan 9, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> and wonderblunder.......
> 
> I wanna see your Island Skunk..... you said it looks similar to my Maui Skunk....... Can I SEE it? Feel free to post pic here
> 
> I took a pic of mine for comparison....


Hey,
Here they are..... Unfortunately I didn't have a very big nug and my camera is lacking and so are my photography skills. I saw a 1 ounce cola of it and it looked so similar to your pics. I would love to get some that Maui Skunk or the Sweet Island Skunk.....


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## greenthumb111 (Jan 10, 2010)

wonderblunder said:


> Hey,
> Here they are..... Unfortunately I didn't have a very big nug and my camera is lacking and so are my photography skills. I saw a 1 ounce cola of it and it looked so similar to your pics. I would love to get some that Maui Skunk or the Sweet Island Skunk.....


Pics are looking deliceous. If the bill is so bad why then is CA Normal supporting it if what you say is true??? You never know what a bill says until you read every line. The truth is they see this as billions of dollars, as you so eloquently put it, for the sacramento idiots to spend on programs that wont help anyone.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 10, 2010)

BILL NUMBER: AB 390	INTRODUCED
BILL TEXT


INTRODUCED BY Assembly Member Ammiano

FEBRUARY 23, 2009

An act to add Section 22394.1 to, and to add Chapter 14.5
(commencing with Section 25400) to Division 9 of, the Business and
Professions Code, to amend Section 68152 of the Government Code, to
amend Sections 11014.5, 11054, 11357, 11364.5, 11370, 11470, 11479,
11488, 11532, 11703, and 11705 of, to add Division 10.3 (commencing
with Section 11720) to, and to repeal Sections 11358, 11359, 11360,
11361, and 11485 of, the Health and Safety Code, to add Part 14.6
(commencing with Section 34001) to Division 2 of the Revenue and
Taxation Code, to amend Sections 23222 and 40000.15 of the Vehicle
Code, and to amend Section 18901.3 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code, relating to marijuana.



LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST


AB 390, as introduced, Ammiano. marijuana Control, Regulation, and
Education Act.
Existing state law provides that every person who possesses,
sells, transports, or cultivates marijuana, concentrated cannabis, or
derivatives of marijuana, except as authorized by law, is guilty of
one or more crimes.
This bill would remove marijuana and its derivatives from existing
statutes defining and regulating controlled substances. It would
instead legalize the possession, sale, cultivation, and other conduct
relating to marijuana and its derivatives by persons 21 years of age
and older, except as specified. It would set up a wholesale and
retail marijuana sales regulation program, including special fees to
fund drug abuse prevention programs, as specified, to commence after
regulations concerning the program have been issued, and federal law
permits possession and sale consistent with the program. It would ban
local and state assistance in enforcing inconsistent federal and
other laws relating to marijuana, and would provide specified
infraction penalties for violations of these new marijuana laws and
regulations, as specified. It would make other conforming changes.
By creating various infractions for violations of regulations and
laws created by this act, this bill would impose a state-mandated
local program.
The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local
agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the
state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that
reimbursement.
This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this
act for a specified reason.
Vote: majority. Appropriation: no. Fiscal committee: yes.
State-mandated local program: yes.


THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. It is the intent of the Legislature in enacting this,
the marijuana Control, Regulation, and Education Act, to do all of
the following:
(a) To legalize marijuana and its derivatives.
(b) To remove all existing civil and criminal penalties for adults
21 years of age or older who cultivate, possess, transport, sell, or
use marijuana, without impacting existing laws proscribing dangerous
activities while under the influence of marijuana, or certain
conduct that exposes younger persons to marijuana.
(c) To ensure that the proper regulatory apparatus for marijuana
sale and cultivation is ready when permitted by the federal
government.
(d) To raise funds and to discourage substance abuse by the
imposition of a substantial fee on the legal sale of marijuana, the
proceeds of which will support drug education and awareness.
(e) To impose a set of regulations and laws concerning marijuana
comparable to those imposed on alcohol.
(f) To impose substantial fines for violations of the
noncommercial regulations and laws concerning marijuana, which will
be applicable until and after commercial marijuana is available by
virtue of future changes in federal law.
(g) To prevent state and local agencies from supporting any
prosecution for federal or other crimes relating to marijuana that
are inconsistent with those provided in this bill.
(h) To exclude from the fees and regulations imposed by this act
marijuana that is for uses other than smoking or ingestion, and to
exclude medicinal marijuana from fees under these provisions.
(i) To encourage the federal government to reconsider its policies
concerning marijuana, and to change its laws accordingly.
SEC. 2. Section 23394.1 is added to the Business and Professions
Code, to read:
23394.1. An off-sale general license, as provided for in Section
23394, also authorizes the sale, to consumers only and not for
resale, of marijuana, concentrated cannabis, or any of its
derivatives pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 14.5 (commencing
with Section 25400) of this division.
SEC. 3. Chapter 14.5 (commencing with Section 25400) is added to
Division 9 of the Business and Professions Code, to read:
CHAPTER 14.5. COMMERCIAL marijuana PRODUCTION AND SALE


25400. For purposes of this chapter, "marijuana" means all parts
of the plant Cannabis sativa L., whether growing or not; the seeds
thereof; the resin extracted from any part of the plant; concentrated
cannabis; and every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative,
mixture, or preparation of the plant, its seeds or resin. It does not
include the mature stalks of the plant, fiber produced from the
stalks, oil or cake made from the seeds of the plant, any other
compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of
the mature stalks (except the resin extracted therefrom), fiber, oil,
or cake, or the sterilized seed of the plant that is incapable of
germination.
25401. (a) The department shall license commercial cultivators of
marijuana. The fee for the license shall be set at an amount that
will reasonably cover to costs of assuring compliance with the
regulations to be issued, but may not exceed five thousand dollars
($5,000) for an initial application, or two thousand five hundred
dollars ($2,500) per year for each annual renewal.
(b) Regulations adopted by the department pursuant to this chapter
shall require background checks of applicants be conducted. At the
request of the department, the Attorney General or any local agency
shall provide summary criminal history information to the department
as provided in Sections 11105 and 13300 of the Penal Code.
25402. The department shall, with consideration for the risks
posed by cultivation of a valuable crop with public health
implications that is subject to significant fees, issue and enforce
regulations concerning commercial cultivators of marijuana that
provide for all of the following:
(a) Adequate security to reasonably protect against unauthorized
access to the marijuana crop at all stages of cultivation,
harvesting, drying, processing, packing, and delivery to licensed
sales outlets or wholesalers. Each licensee shall be required to
provide a detailed crop security plan, along with satisfactory proof
of the financial ability of the licensee to provide for that
security.
(b) Appropriate employment rules, including the rule that a person
under 21 years of age may not have access to marijuana during
cultivation, storage, drying, packing, or at any other time.
(c) Safeguards to assure that a person under 21 years of age may
not transport marijuana on behalf of a commercial buyer or commercial
seller.
(d) Restrictions to ensure that marijuana is not used or consumed
on the premises of a commercial cultivator.
(e) An inspection and tracking system to reasonably ensure that
all marijuana produced by the cultivator that is eventually sold is
assessed pursuant to Part 14.6 (commencing with Section 34001) of
Division 2 of the Revenue and Taxation Code.
(f) Recordkeeping consistent with the regulatory needs of the
department.
25403. (a) The department shall license marijuana wholesalers,
who shall be allowed to package and prepare marijuana for sale, and
who shall be authorized to sell marijuana to licensed sales outlets.
The fee for the license shall be set in an amount that will
reasonably cover the costs of compliance with the regulations to be
issued, but may not exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000) for an
initial application, or two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500)
per year for each annual renewal.
(b) The department shall issue regulations that include a
requirement that all applicants for licensure receive background
checks. At the request of the department, the Attorney General or any
local agency shall provide summary criminal history information to
the department as provided in Sections 11105 and 13300 of the Penal
Code.
25404. The department shall, with consideration for the risks
posed by a valuable commodity with public health implications that is
subject to significant fees, issue and enforce regulations
concerning the sale and packaging of marijuana by wholesale
licensees. Those regulations shall provide for all of the following:
(a) Adequate security to reasonably protect against unauthorized
access to marijuana at all stages of the wholesaler's possession of
the marijuana, including receiving, processing, packing, storage, and
delivery to licensed sales outlets. Each wholesaler shall be
required to provide a detailed product security plan, along with
satisfactory proof of the financial ability of the licensee to
provide for that security.
(b) Appropriate employment rules, including the rule that a person
under 21 years of age may not have access to marijuana during
receiving, processing, packing, storage, and delivery or at any other
time.
(c) Safeguards to assure that a person under 21 years of age may
not transport marijuana on behalf of a commercial buyer or commercial
seller.
(d) Restrictions to ensure that marijuana is not used or consumed
on the premises of a wholesaler.
(e) An inspection and tracking system to reasonably ensure that
all marijuana received by the wholesaler that is eventually sold is
assessed pursuant to Part 14.6 (commencing with Section 34001) of
Division 2 of the Revenue and Taxation Code.
(f) Recordkeeping consistent with the regulatory needs of the
department.
25405. The department shall issue and enforce regulations
concerning the sale of marijuana by off-sale general licensees. Those
regulations shall provide for all of the following:
(a) An inspection and tracking system to ensure that marijuana may
not be sold by a licensee if that marijuana has not been made
subject to an assessment provided for in Part 14.6 (commencing with
Section 34001) of Division 2 of the Revenue and Taxation Code.
(b) marijuana shall be kept behind a counter in an area not
directly accessible to any customer, and shall be stored in a case
that is locked between sales.
(c) marijuana may not be sold to anyone under 21 years of age.
(d) Punishments for violations in actions against licensees that
are in substantial accord with those applicable to the regulation of
alcohol sales, including heavy penalties for permitting persons under
21 years of age to purchase these products and other appropriate
regulatory provisions concerning such matters as the time of sale,
deliveries, and signage. It is the intent of the people in enacting
this act that the regulation of marijuana sales be consistent with
the statutory guidance regarding alcohol sales in Chapter 16
(commencing with Section 25600), to the extent that consistency is
feasible.
(e) Recordkeeping consistent with the regulatory needs of the
department.
25406. Beginning 30 days after the operative date of the
regulations issued pursuant to this chapter, or 30 days after the
date when federal law permits the possession and sale of marijuana
consistent with this chapter, whichever is latest, the department
shall begin to enforce the provisions of this chapter.
SEC. 4. Section 68152 of the Government Code is amended to read:
68152. The trial court clerk may destroy court records under
Section 68153 after notice of destruction and if there is no request
and order for transfer of the records, except the comprehensive
historical and sample superior court records preserved for research
under the California Rules of Court, when the following times have
expired after final disposition of the case in the categories listed:

(a) Adoption: retain permanently.
(b) Change of name: retain permanently.
(c) Other civil actions and proceedings, as follows:
(1) Except as otherwise specified: 10 years.
(2) Where a party appears by a guardian ad litem: 10 years after
termination of the court's jurisdiction.
(3) Domestic violence: same period as duration of the restraining
or other orders and renewals, then retain the restraining or other
orders as a judgment; 60 days after expiration of the temporary
protective or temporary restraining order.
(4) Eminent domain: retain permanently.
(5) Family law, except as otherwise specified: 30 years.
(6) Harassment: same period as duration of the injunction and
renewals, then retain the injunction as a judgment; 60 days after
expiration of the temporary restraining order.
(7) Mental health (Lanterman Developmental Disabilities Services
Act and Lanterman-Petris-Short Act): 30 years.
cool: Paternity: retain permanently.
(9) Petition, except as otherwise specified: 10 years.
(10) Real property other than unlawful detainer: retain
permanently if the action affects title or an interest in real
property.
(11) Small claims: 10 years.
(12) Unlawful detainer: one year if judgment is for possession of
the premises; 10 years if judgment is for money.
(d) Notwithstanding subdivision (c), any civil or small claims
case in the trial court:
(1) Involuntarily dismissed by the court for delay in prosecution
or failure to comply with state or local rules: one year.
(2) Voluntarily dismissed by a party without entry of judgment:
one year.
Notation of the dismissal shall be made on the civil index of
cases or on a separate dismissal index.
(e) Criminal.
(1) Capital felony (murder with special circumstances where the
prosecution seeks the death penalty): retain permanently. If the
charge is disposed of by acquittal or a sentence less than death, the
case shall be reclassified.
(2) Felony, except as otherwise specified: 75 years.
(3) Felony, except capital felony, with court records from the
initial complaint through the preliminary hearing or plea and for
which the case file does not include final sentencing or other final
disposition of the case because the case was bound over to the
superior court: five years.
(4) Misdemeanor, except as otherwise specified: five years.
(5) Misdemeanor alleging a violation of the Vehicle Code, except
as otherwise specified: three years.
(6) Misdemeanor alleging a violation of Section 23103, 23152, or
23153 of the Vehicle Code: 10 years.
(7) Misdemeanor alleging a violation of Section 14601, 14601.1,
20002, 23104, 23105, 23109, or 23109.1 of the Vehicle Code: five
years.
cool: Misdemeanor alleging a marijuana violation under subdivision
(b), (c), (d), or (e) _ (a) or (b) _ of
Section 11357 of the Health and Safety Code , or subdivision
(b) of Section 11360 of the Health and Safety Code in
accordance with the procedure set forth in Section 11361.5 of the
Health and Safety Code: records shall be destroyed two years from the
date of conviction or from the date of arrest if no conviction.
(9) Misdemeanor, infraction, or civil action alleging a violation
of the regulation and licensing of dogs under Sections 30951 to
30956, inclusive, of the Food and Agricultural Code or violation of
any other local ordinance: three years.
(10) Misdemeanor action resulting in a requirement that the
defendant register as a sex offender pursuant to Section 290 of the
Penal Code: 75 years. This paragraph shall apply to records relating
to a person convicted on or after September 20, 2006.
(11) Infraction, except as otherwise specified: three years.
(12) Parking infractions, including alleged violations under the
stopping, standing, and parking provisions set forth in Chapter 9
(commencing with Section 22500) of Division 11 of the Vehicle Code:
two years.
(f) Habeas corpus: same period as period for retention of the
records in the underlying case category.
(g) Juvenile.
(1) Dependent (Section 300 of the Welfare and Institutions Code):
upon reaching age 28 or on written request shall be released to the
juvenile five years after jurisdiction over the person has terminated
under subdivision (a) of Section 826 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code. Sealed records shall be destroyed upon court order five years
after the records have been sealed pursuant to subdivision (c) of
Section 389 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(2) Ward (Section 601 of the Welfare and Institutions Code): upon
reaching age 21 or on written request shall be released to the
juvenile five years after jurisdiction over the person has terminated
under subdivision (a) of Section 826 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code. Sealed records shall be destroyed upon court order five years
after the records have been sealed under subdivision (d) of Section
781 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(3) Ward (Section 602 of the Welfare and Institutions Code): upon
reaching age 38 under subdivision (a) of Section 826 of the Welfare
and Institutions Code. Sealed records shall be destroyed upon court
order when the subject of the record reaches the age of 38 under
subdivision (d) of Section 781 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(4) Traffic and some nontraffic misdemeanors and infractions
(Section 601 of the Welfare and Institutions Code): upon reaching age
21 or five years after jurisdiction over the person has terminated
under subdivision (c) of Section 826 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code. May be microfilmed or photocopied.
(5) marijuana misdemeanor under subdivision (e) 
_ (b) _ of Section 11357 of the Health and Safety Code in
accordance with procedures specified in subdivision (a) of Section
11361.5 of the Health and Safety Code: upon reaching age 18 the
records shall be destroyed.
(h) Probate.
(1) Conservatorship: 10 years after decree of termination.
(2) Guardianship: 10 years after the age of 18.
(3) Probate, including probated wills, except as otherwise
specified: retain permanently.
(i) Court records of the appellate division of the superior court:
five years.
(j) Other records.
(1) Applications in forma pauperis: any time after the disposition
of the underlying case.
(2) Arrest warrant: same period as period for retention of the
records in the underlying case category.
(3) Bench warrant: same period as period for retention of the
records in the underlying case category.
(4) Bond: three years after exoneration and release.
(5) Coroner's inquest report: same period as period for retention
of the records in the underlying case category; if no case, then
permanent.
(6) Court orders not associated with an underlying case, such as
orders for destruction of court records for telephone taps, or to
destroy drugs, and other miscellaneous court orders: three years.
(7) Court reporter notes: 10 years after the notes have been taken
in criminal and juvenile proceedings and five years after the notes
have been taken in all other proceedings, except notes reporting
proceedings in capital felony cases (murder with special
circumstances where the prosecution seeks the death penalty and the
sentence is death), including notes reporting the preliminary
hearing, which shall be retained permanently, unless the Supreme
Court on request of the court clerk authorizes the destruction.
cool: Electronic recordings made as the official record of the oral
proceedings under the California Rules of Court: any time after final
disposition of the case in infraction and misdemeanor proceedings,
10 years in all other criminal proceedings, and five years in all
other proceedings.
(9) Electronic recordings not made as the official record of the
oral proceedings under the California Rules of Court: any time either
before or after final disposition of the case.
(10) Index, except as otherwise specified: retain permanently.
(11) Index for cases alleging traffic violations: same period as
period for retention of the records in the underlying case category.
(12) Judgments within the jurisdiction of the superior court other
than in a limited civil case, misdemeanor case, or infraction case:
retain permanently.
(13) Judgments in misdemeanor cases, infraction cases, and limited
civil cases: same period as period for retention of the records in
the underlying case category.
(14) Minutes: same period as period for retention of the records
in the underlying case category.
(15) Naturalization index: retain permanently.
(16) Ninety-day evaluation (under Section 1203.03 of the Penal
Code): same period as period for retention of the records in the
underlying case category, or period for completion or termination of
probation, whichever is longer.
(17) Register of actions or docket: same period as period for
retention of the records in the underlying case category, but in no
event less than 10 years for civil and small claims cases.
(1 Search warrant: 10 years, except search warrants issued in
connection with a capital felony case defined in paragraph (7), which
shall be retained permanently.
(k) Retention of the court records under this section shall be
extended as follows:
(1) By order of the court on its own motion, or on application of
a party or an interested member of the public for good cause shown
and on those terms as are just. A fee shall not be charged for making
the application.
(2) Upon application and order for renewal of the judgment to the
extended time for enforcing the judgment.
SEC. 5. Section 11014.5 of the Health and Safety Code is amended
to read:
11014.5. (a) "Drug paraphernalia" means all equipment, products
_ , _ and materials of any kind which _
that _ are designed for use or marketed for use ,
in planting, propagating, cultivating, growing, harvesting,
manufacturing, compounding, converting, producing, processing,
preparing, testing, analyzing, packaging, repackaging, storing,
containing, concealing, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise
introducing into the human body a controlled substance in violation
of this division. It includes, but is not limited to:
(1) Kits designed for use or marketed for use in planting,
propagating, cultivating, growing, or harvesting of any species of
plant which is a controlled substance or from which a controlled
substance can be derived.
(2) Kits designed for use or marketed for use in manufacturing,
compounding, converting, producing, processing, or preparing
controlled substances.
(3) Isomerization devices designed for use or marketed for use in
increasing the potency of any species of plant which is a controlled
substance.
(4) Testing equipment designed for use or marketed for use in
identifying, or in analyzing the strength, effectiveness, or purity
of controlled substances.
(5) Scales and balances designed for use or marketed for use in
weighing or measuring controlled substances.
(6) Containers and other objects designed for use or marketed for
use in storing or concealing controlled substances.
(7) Hypodermic syringes, needles, and other objects designed for
use or marketed for use in parenterally injecting controlled
substances into the human body.
cool: Objects designed for use or marketed for use in ingesting,
inhaling, or otherwise introducing marijuana, 
cocaine , hashish, or hashish oil into the human
body, such as:
(A) Carburetion tubes and devices.
(B) Smoking and carburetion masks.
(C) Roach clips, meaning objects used to hold burning material
, such as a marijuana cigarette, that has become
too small or too short to be held in the hand.
(D) Miniature cocaine spoons, and cocaine vials.
(E) Chamber pipes.
(F) Carburetor pipes.
(G) Electric pipes.
(H) Air-driven pipes.
(I) Chillums.
(J) Bongs.
(K) Ice pipes or chillers.
(b) For the purposes of this section, the phrase "marketed for use"
means advertising, distributing, offering for sale, displaying for
sale, or selling in a manner which promotes the use of equipment,
products, or materials with controlled substances.
(c) In determining whether an object is drug paraphernalia, a
court or other authority may consider, in addition to all other
logically relevant factors, the following:
(1) Statements by an owner or by anyone in control of the object
concerning its use.
(2) Instructions, oral or written, provided with the object
concerning its use for ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing
a controlled substance into the human body.
(3) Descriptive materials accompanying the object which explain or
depict its use.
(4) National and local advertising concerning its use.
(5) The manner in which the object is displayed for sale.
(6) Whether the owner, or anyone in control of the object, is a
legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community, such
as a licensed distributor or dealer of tobacco products.
(7) Expert testimony concerning its use.
(d) If any provision of this section or the application thereof to
any person or circumstance is held invalid, it is the intent of the
Legislature that the invalidity shall not affect other provisions or
applications of the section which can be given effect without the
invalid provision or application and to this end the provisions of
this section are severable.
SEC. 6. Section 11054 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to
read:
11054. (a) The controlled substances listed in this section are
included in Schedule I.
(b) Opiates. Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in
another schedule, any of the following opiates, including their
isomers, esters, ethers, salts, and salts of isomers, esters, and
ethers whenever the existence of those isomers, esters, ethers, and
salts is possible within the specific chemical designation:
(1) Acetylmethadol.
(2) Allylprodine.
(3) Alphacetylmethadol (except levoalphacetylmethadol, also known
as levo-alpha- acetylmethadol, levomethadyl acetate, or LAAM).
(4) Alphameprodine.
(5) Alphamethadol.
(6) Benzethidine.
(7) Betacetylmethadol.
cool: Betameprodine.
(9) Betamethadol.
(10) Betaprodine.
(11) Clonitazene.
(12) Dextromoramide.
(13) Diampromide.
(14) Diethylthiambutene.
(15) Difenoxin.
(16) Dimenoxadol.
(17) Dimepheptanol.
(1 Dimethylthiambutene.
(19) Dioxaphetyl butyrate.
(20) Dipipanone.
(21) Ethylmethylthiambutene.
(22) Etonitazene.
(23) Etoxeridine.
(24) Furethidine.
(25) Hydroxypethidine.
(26) Ketobemidone.
(27) Levomoramide.
(2 Levophenacylmorphan.
(29) Morpheridine.
(30) Noracymethadol.
(31) Norlevorphanol.
(32) Normethadone.
(33) Norpipanone.
(34) Phenadoxone.
(35) Phenampromide.
(36) Phenomorphan.
(37) Phenoperidine.
(3 Piritramide.
(39) Proheptazine.
(40) Properidine.
(41) Propiram.
(42) Racemoramide.
(43) Tilidine.
(44) Trimeperidine.
(45) Any substance which contains any quantity of acetylfentanyl
(N-[1-phenethyl-4-piperidinyl] acetanilide) or a derivative thereof.
(46) Any substance which contains any quantity of the thiophene
analog of acetylfentanyl (N-[1-[2-(2-thienyl)ethyl]-4-piperidinyl]
acetanilide) or a derivative thereof.
(47) 1-Methyl-4-Phenyl-4-Propionoxypiperidine (MPPP).
(4 1-(2-Phenethyl)-4-Phenyl-4-Acetyloxypiperidine (PEPAP).
(c) Opium derivatives. Unless specifically excepted or unless
listed in another schedule, any of the following opium derivatives,
its salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of
those salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the
specific chemical designation:
(1) Acetorphine.
(2) Acetyldihydrocodeine.
(3) Benzylmorphine.
(4) Codeine methylbromide.
(5) Codeine-N-Oxide.
(6) Cyprenorphine.
(7) Desomorphine.
cool: Dihydromorphine.
(9) Drotebanol.
(10) Etorphine (except hydrochloride salt).
(11) Heroin.
(12) Hydromorphinol.
(13) Methyldesorphine.
(14) Methyldihydromorphine.
(15) Morphine methylbromide.
(16) Morphine methylsulfonate.
(17) Morphine-N-Oxide.
(1 Myrophine.
(19) Nicocodeine.
(20) Nicomorphine.
(21) Normorphine.
(22) Pholcodine.
(23) Thebacon.
(d) Hallucinogenic substances. Unless specifically excepted or
unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture,
or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following
hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of its salts,
isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of those salts,
isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific
chemical designation (for purposes of this subdivision only, the term
"isomer" includes the optical, position, and geometric isomers):
(1) 4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxy-amphetamine--Some trade or other names:
4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxy-alpha-methylphenethylamine; 4-bromo-2,5-DMA.
(2) 2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine--Some trade or other names:
2,5-dimethoxy-alpha-methylphenethylamine; 2,5-DMA.
(3) 4-methoxyamphetamine--Some trade or other names:
4-methoxy-alpha-methylphenethylamine, paramethoxyamphetamine, PMA.
(4) 5-methoxy-3,4-methylenedioxy-amphetamine.
(5) 4-methyl-2,5-dimethoxy-amphetamine--Some trade or other names:
4-methyl-2,5-dimethoxy-alpha-methylphenethylamine; "DOM"; and "STP."

(6) 3,4-methylenedioxy amphetamine.
(7) 3,4,5-trimethoxy amphetamine.
cool: Bufotenine--Some trade or other names: 3-
(beta-dimethylaminoethyl)-5-hydroxyindole; 3-(2-dimethylaminoethyl)-5
indolol; N,N-dimethylserolonin, 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine;
mappine.
(9) Diethyltryptamine--Some trade or other names:
N,N-Diethyltryptamine; DET.
(10) Dimethyltryptamine--Some trade or other names: DMT.
(11) Ibogaine--Some trade or other names: 7-Ethyl-6,6beta,
7,8,9,10,12,13-octahydro-2-methoxy-6,9-methano-5H-pyrido [1',2':1,2]
azepino [5,4-b] indole; Tabernantheiboga.
(12) Lysergic acid diethylamide. 
(13) marijuana. 
(14) Mescaline.
(15) Peyote--Meaning all parts of the plant presently classified
botanically as Lophophora williamsii Lemaire, whether growing or not,
the seeds thereof, any extract from any part of the plant, and every
compound, manufacture, salts, derivative, mixture, or preparation of
the plant, its seeds or extracts (interprets 21 U.S.C. Sec. 812(c),
Schedule 1(c)(12)).
(16) N-ethyl-3-piperidyl benzilate.
(17) N-methyl-3-piperidyl benzilate.
(1 Psilocybin.
(19) Psilocyn.
(20) Tetrahydrocannabinols _ Synthetic
tetrahydrocannabinols not derived from cannabis plants _ .
Synthetic equivalents of the substances contained in the plant, or in
the resinous extractives of Cannabis, sp. and/or synthetic
substances, derivatives, and their isomers with similar chemical
structure and pharmacological activity such as the following: delta 1
cis or trans tetrahydrocannabinol, and their optical isomers; delta
6 cis or trans tetrahydrocannabinol, and their optical isomers; delta
3,4 cis or trans tetrahydrocannabinol, and its optical isomers.
(Since nomenclature of these substances is not internationally
standardized, compounds of these structures, regardless of numerical
designation of atomic positions covered).
(21) Ethylamine analog of phencyclidine--Some trade or other
names: N-ethyl-1-phenylcyclohexylamine, (1-phenylcyclohexyl)
ethylamine, N-(1-phenylcyclohexyl) ethylamine, cyclohexamine, PCE.
(22) Pyrrolidine analog of phencyclidine--Some trade or other
names: 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)-pyrrolidine, PCP, PHP.
(23) Thiophene analog of phencyclidine--Some trade or other names:
1-[1-(2 thienyl)-cyclohexyl]-piperidine, 2-thienyl analog of
phencyclidine, TPCP, TCP.
(e) Depressants. Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in
another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation
which contains any quantity of the following substances having a
depressant effect on the central nervous system, including its salts,
isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of those salts,
isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific
chemical designation:
(1) Mecloqualone.
(2) Methaqualone.
(3) Gamma hydroxybutyric acid (also known by other names such as
GHB; gamma hydroxy butyrate; 4-hydroxybutyrate; 4-hydroxybutanoic
acid; sodium oxybate; sodium oxybutyrate), including its immediate
precursors, isomers, esters, ethers, salts, and salts of isomers,
esters, and ethers, including, but not limited to,
gammabutyrolactone, for which an application has not been approved
under Section 505 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21
U.S.C. Sec. 355).
(f) Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another
schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation which
contains any quantity of the following substances having a stimulant
effect on the central nervous system, including its isomers:
(1) Cocaine base.
(2) Fenethylline, including its salts.
(3) N-Ethylamphetamine, including its salts.
SEC. 7. Section 11357 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to
read: 
11357. (a) Except as authorized by law, every person who
possesses any concentrated cannabis shall be punished by imprisonment
in the county jail for a period of not more than one year or by a
fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or by both such
fine and imprisonment, or shall be punished by imprisonment in the
state prison.
(b) Except as authorized by law, every person who possesses not
more than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than concentrated cannabis,
is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not
more than one hundred dollars ($100). Notwithstanding other
provisions of law, if such person has been previously convicted three
or more times of an offense described in this subdivision during the
two-year period immediately preceding the date of commission of the
violation to be charged, the previous convictions shall also be
charged in the accusatory pleading and, if found to be true by the
jury upon a jury trial or by the court upon a court trial or if
admitted by the person, the provisions of Sections 1000.1 and 1000.2
of the Penal Code shall be applicable to him, and the court shall
divert and refer him for education, treatment, or rehabilitation,
without a court hearing or determination or the concurrence of the
district attorney, to an appropriate community program which will
accept him. If the person is so diverted and referred he shall not be
subject to the fine specified in this subdivision. If no community
program will accept him, the person shall be subject to the fine
specified in this subdivision. In any case in which a person is
arrested for a violation of this subdivision and does not demand to
be taken before a magistrate, such person shall be released by the
arresting officer upon presentation of satisfactory evidence of
identity and giving his written promise to appear in court, as
provided in Section 853.6 of the Penal Code, and shall not be
subjected to booking.
(c) Except as authorized by law, every person who possesses more
than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than concentrated cannabis, shall
be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not
more than six months or by a fine of not more than five hundred
dollars ($500), or by both such fine and imprisonment.
(d) 
_ 11357. _ _ (a) _ Except as authorized by law,
every person 18 years of age or over who possesses not more
than 28.5 grams of marijuana , other than
_ or _ concentrated cannabis , 
upon the grounds of, or within, any school providing instruction in
kindergarten or any of grades 1 through 12 during hours the school is
open for classes or school-related programs is guilty of a
misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not more than five
hundred dollars ($500), or by imprisonment in the county jail for a
period of not more than 10 days, or both. 
(e) 
_ (b) _ Except as authorized by law, every person under the
age of 18 who possesses not more than 28.5 grams of
marijuana , other than _ or _
concentrated cannabis, upon the grounds of, or within, any school
providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 through 12
during hours the school is open for classes or school-related
programs is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be subject to the
following dispositions:
(1) A fine of not more than two hundred fifty dollars ($250), upon
a finding that a first offense has been committed.
(2) A fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or
commitment to a juvenile hall, ranch, camp, forestry camp, or secure
juvenile home for a period of not more than 10 days, or both, upon a
finding that a second or subsequent offense has been committed.
SEC. 8. Section 11358 of the Health and Safety Code is repealed.

11358. Every person who plants, cultivates, harvests, dries, or
processes any marijuana or any part thereof, except as otherwise
provided by law, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state
prison. 
SEC. 9. Section 11359 of the Health and Safety Code is repealed.

11359. Every person who possesses for sale any marijuana, except
as otherwise provided by law, shall be punished by imprisonment in
the state prison. 
SEC. 10. Section 11360 of the Health and Safety Code is repealed.

11360. (a) Except as otherwise provided by this section or as
authorized by law, every person who transports, imports into this
state, sells, furnishes, administers, or gives away, or offers to
transport, import into this state, sell, furnish, administer, or give
away, or attempts to import into this state or transport any
marijuana shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a
period of two, three or four years.
(b) Except as authorized by law, every person who gives away,
offers to give away, transports, offers to transport, or attempts to
transport not more than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than
concentrated cannabis, is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be
punished by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars ($100). In
any case in which a person is arrested for a violation of this
subdivision and does not demand to be taken before a magistrate, such
person shall be released by the arresting officer upon presentation
of satisfactory evidence of identity and giving his written promise
to appear in court, as provided in Section 853.6 of the Penal Code,
and shall not be subjected to booking. 
SEC. 11. Section 11361 of the Health and Safety Code is repealed.

11361. (a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires,
employs, or uses a minor in unlawfully transporting, carrying,
selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any marijuana,
who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any marijuana to a minor, or
who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish,
administer, or give any marijuana to a minor under 14 years of age,
or who induces a minor to use marijuana in violation of law shall be
punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three,
five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes,
administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any
marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by
imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five
years. 
SEC. 12. Section 11364.5 of the Health and Safety Code is amended
to read:
11364.5. (a) Except as authorized by law, no person shall
maintain or operate any place of business in which drug paraphernalia
is kept, displayed or offered in any manner, sold, furnished,
transferred or given away unless such drug paraphernalia is
completely and wholly kept, displayed or offered within a separate
room or enclosure to which persons under the age of 18 years not
accompanied by a parent or legal guardian are excluded. Each entrance
to such a room or enclosure shall be signposted in reasonably
visible and legible words to the effect that drug paraphernalia is
kept, displayed or offered in such room or enclosure and that minors,
unless accompanied by a parent or legal guardian, are excluded.
(b) Except as authorized by law, no owner, manager, proprietor or
other person in charge of any room or enclosure, within any place of
business, in which drug paraphernalia is kept, displayed or offered
in any manner, sold, furnished, transferred or given away shall
permit or allow any person under the age of 18 years to enter, be in,
remain in or visit such room or enclosure unless such minor person
is accompanied by one of his or her parents or by his or her legal
guardian.
(c) Unless authorized by law, no person under the age of 18 years
shall enter, be in, remain in or visit any room or enclosure in any
place of business in which drug paraphernalia is kept, displayed or
offered in any manner, sold, furnished, transferred or given away
unless accompanied by one of his or her parents or by his or her
legal guardian.
(d) As used in this section, "drug paraphernalia" means all
equipment, products, and materials of any kind which are intended for
use or designed for use, in planting, propagating, cultivating,
growing, harvesting, manufacturing, compounding, converting,
producing, processing, preparing, testing, analyzing, packaging,
repackaging, storing, containing, concealing, injecting, ingesting,
inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled
substance. "Drug paraphernalia" includes, but is not limited to, all
of the following:
(1) Kits intended for use or designed for use in planting,
propagating, cultivating, growing or harvesting of any species of
plant which is a controlled substance or from which a controlled
substance can be derived.
(2) Kits intended for use or designed for use in manufacturing,
compounding, converting, producing, processing, or preparing
controlled substances.
(3) Isomerization devices intended for use or designed for use in
increasing the potency of any species of plant which is a controlled
substance.
(4) Testing equipment intended for use or designed for use in
identifying, or in analyzing the strength, effectiveness or purity of
controlled substances.
(5) Scales and balances intended for use or designed for use in
weighing or measuring controlled substances.
(6) Diluents and adulterants, such as quinine hydrochloride,
mannitol, mannite, dextrose, and lactose, intended for use or
designed for use in cutting controlled substances. 
(7) Separation gins and sifters intended for use or designed for
use in removing twigs and seeds from, or in otherwise cleaning or
refining, marijuana. 
cool: 
_ (7) _ Blenders, bowls, containers, spoons, and mixing
devices intended for use or designed for use in compounding
controlled substances. 
(9) 
_ cool: _ Capsules, balloons, envelopes, and other containers
intended for use or designed for use in packaging small quantities
of controlled substances. 
(10) 
_ (9) _ Containers and other objects intended for use or
designed for use in storing or concealing controlled substances.

(11) 
_ (10) _ Hypodermic syringes, needles, and other objects
intended for use or designed for use in parenterally injecting
controlled substances into the human body. 
(12) 
_ (11) _ Objects intended for use or designed for use in
ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing marijuana,
cocaine , hashish, or hashish oil into
the human body, such as the following:
(A) Metal, wooden, acrylic, glass, stone, plastic, or ceramic
pipes with or without screens, permanent screens, hashish heads, or
punctured metal bowls.
(B) Water pipes.
(C) Carburetion tubes and devices.
(D) Smoking and carburetion masks.
(E) Roach clips, meaning objects used to hold burning material
, such as a marijuana cigarette that has become
too small or too short to be held in the hand.
(F) Miniature cocaine spoons, and cocaine vials.
(G) Chamber pipes.
(H) Carburetor pipes.
(I) Electric pipes.
(J) Air-driven pipes.
(K) Chillums.
(L) Bongs.
(M) Ice pipes or chillers.
(e) In determining whether an object is drug paraphernalia, a
court or other authority may consider, in addition to all other
logically relevant factors, the following:
(1) Statements by an owner or by anyone in control of the object
concerning its use.
(2) Prior convictions, if any, of an owner, or of anyone in
control of the object, under any state or federal law relating to any
controlled substance.
(3) Direct or circumstantial evidence of the intent of an owner,
or of anyone in control of the object, to deliver it to persons whom
he or she knows, or should reasonably know, intend to use the object
to facilitate a violation of this section. The innocence of an owner,
or of anyone in control of the object, as to a direct violation of
this section shall not prevent a finding that the object is intended
for use, or designed for use, as drug paraphernalia.
(4) Instructions, oral or written, provided with the object
concerning its use.
(5) Descriptive materials, accompanying the object which explain
or depict its use.
(6) National and local advertising concerning its use.
(7) The manner in which the object is displayed for sale.
cool: Whether the owner, or anyone in control of the object, is a
legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community, such
as a licensed distributor or dealer of tobacco _ or marijuana
_ products.
(9) The existence and scope of legitimate uses for the object in
the community.
(10) Expert testimony concerning its use.
(f) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) Any pharmacist or other authorized person who sells or
furnishes drug paraphernalia described in paragraph (11) of
subdivision (d) upon the prescription of a physician, dentist,
podiatrist or veterinarian.
(2) Any physician, dentist, podiatrist or veterinarian who
furnishes or prescribes drug paraphernalia described in paragraph
(11) of subdivision (d) to his or her patients.
(3) Any manufacturer, wholesaler or retailer licensed by the
California State Board of Pharmacy to sell or transfer drug
paraphernalia described in paragraph (11) of subdivision (d).
(g) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, including Section
11374, violation of this section shall not constitute a criminal
offense, but operation of a business in violation of the provisions
of this section shall be grounds for revocation or nonrenewal of any
license, permit, or other entitlement previously issued by a city,
county, or city and county for the privilege of engaging in such
business and shall be grounds for denial of any future license,
permit, or other entitlement authorizing the conduct of such business
or any other business, if the business includes the sale of drug
paraphernalia.
SEC. 13. Section 11370 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to
read:
11370. (a) Any person convicted of violating Section 11350,
11351, 11351.5, 11352, 11353, 11355, 11357, 11359, 11360,
11361, 11363, 11366, or 11368, or of committing any offense
referred to in those sections, shall not, in any case, be granted
probation by the trial court or have the execution of the sentence
imposed upon him or her suspended by the court, if he or she has been
previously convicted of any offense described in subdivision (c).
(b) Any person who was 18 years of age or over at the time of the
commission of the offense and is convicted for the first time of
selling, furnishing, administering, or giving a controlled substance
which is (1) specified in subdivision (b), (c), (e), or paragraph (1)
of subdivision (f) of Section 11054, specified in paragraph (14),
(15), or (20) of subdivision (d) of Section 11054, or specified in
subdivision (b) or (c) of Section 11055, or (2) which is a narcotic
drug classified in Schedule III, IV, or V, to a minor or inducing a
minor to use such a controlled substance in violation of law shall
not, in any case, be granted probation by the trial court or have the
execution of the sentence imposed upon him or her suspended by the
court.
(c) Any previous conviction of any of the following offenses, or
of an offense under the laws of another state or of the United States
which, if committed in this state, would have been punishable as
such an offense, shall render a person ineligible for probation or
suspension of sentence pursuant to subdivision (a) of this section:
(1) Any felony offense described in this division involving a
controlled substance specified in subdivision (b), (c), (e), or
paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 11054, specified in
paragraph (13), (14), (15), or (20) of subdivision
(d) of Section 11054, or specified in subdivision (b) or (c) of
Section 11055.
(2) Any felony offense described in this division involving a
narcotic drug classified in Schedule III, IV, or V.
(d) The existence of any previous conviction or fact which would
make a person ineligible for suspension of sentence or probation
under this section shall be alleged in the information or indictment,
and either admitted by the defendant in open court, or found to be
true by the jury trying the issue of guilt or by the court where
guilt is established by a plea of guilty or nolo contendere or by
trial by the court sitting without a jury.
SEC. 14. Section 11470 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to
read:
11470. The following are subject to forfeiture:
(a) All controlled substances which have been manufactured,
distributed, dispensed, or acquired in violation of this division.
(b) All raw materials, products, and equipment of any kind which
are used, or intended for use, in manufacturing, compounding,
processing, delivering, importing, or exporting any controlled
substance in violation of this division.
(c) All property except real property or a boat, airplane, or any
vehicle which is used, or intended for use, as a container for
property described in subdivision (a) or (b).
(d) All books, records, and research products and materials,
including formulas, microfilm, tapes, and data which are used, or
intended for use, in violation of this division.
(e) The interest of any registered owner of a boat, airplane, or
any vehicle other than an implement of husbandry, as defined in
Section 36000 of the Vehicle Code, which has been used as an
instrument to facilitate the manufacture of, or possession for sale
or sale of 14.25 grams or more of heroin or cocaine base as specified
in paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 11054, or a substance
containing 14.25 grams or more of heroin or cocaine base as
specified in paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 11054, or
14.25 grams or more of a substance containing heroin or cocaine base
as specified in paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 11054, or
28.5 grams or more of Schedule I controlled substances except
marijuana, peyote , or
psilocybin; 10 pounds dry weight or more of marijuana,
peyote , or psilocybin; or 28.5 grams or
more of cocaine, as specified in paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) of
Section 11055, or methamphetamine; or a substance containing 28.5
grams or more of cocaine, as specified in paragraph (6) of
subdivision (b) of Section 11055, or methamphetamine; or 57 grams or
more of a substance containing cocaine, as specified in paragraph (6)
of subdivision (b) of Section 11055, or methamphetamine; or 28.5
grams or more of Schedule II controlled substances. No interest in a
vehicle which may be lawfully driven on the highway with a class C,
class M1, or class M2 license, as prescribed in Section 12804 of the
Vehicle Code, may be forfeited under this subdivision if there is a
community property interest in the vehicle by a person other than the
defendant and the vehicle is the sole class C, class M1, or class M2
vehicle available to the defendant's immediate family.
(f) All moneys, negotiable instruments, securities, or other
things of value furnished or intended to be furnished by any person
in exchange for a controlled substance, all proceeds traceable to
such an exchange, and all moneys, negotiable instruments, or
securities used or intended to be used to facilitate any violation of
Section 11351, 11351.5, 11352, 11355, 11359, 11360,
11378, 11378.5, 11379, 11379.5, 11379.6, 11380, 11382, or
11383 of this code, or Section 182 of the Penal Code, or a felony
violation of Section 11366.8 of this code, insofar as the offense
involves manufacture, sale, possession for sale, offer for sale, or
offer to manufacture, or conspiracy to commit at least one of those
offenses, if the exchange, violation, or other conduct which is the
basis for the forfeiture occurred within five years of the seizure of
the property, or the filing of a petition under this chapter, or the
issuance of an order of forfeiture of the property, whichever comes
first.
(g) The real property of any property owner who is convicted of
violating Section 11366, 11366.5, or 11366.6 with respect to that
property. However, property which is used as a family residence or
for other lawful purposes, or which is owned by two or more persons,
one of whom had no knowledge of its unlawful use, shall not be
subject to forfeiture.
(h) Subject to the requirements of Section 11488.5 and except as
further limited by this subdivision to protect innocent parties who
claim a property interest acquired from a defendant, all right,
title, and interest in any personal property described in this
section shall vest in the state upon commission of the act giving
rise to forfeiture under this chapter, if the state or local
governmental entity proves a violation of Section 11351, 11351.5,
11352, 11355, 11359, 11360, 11378, 11378.5, 11379,
11379.5, 11379.6, 11380, 11382, or 11383 of this code, or Section
182 of the Penal Code, or a felony violation of Section 11366.8 of
this code, insofar as the offense involves the manufacture, sale,
possession for sale, offer for sale, offer to manufacture, or
conspiracy to commit at least one of those offenses, in accordance
with the burden of proof set forth in paragraph (1) of subdivision
(i) of Section 11488.4 or, in the case of cash or negotiable
instruments in excess of twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000),
paragraph (4) of subdivision (i) of Section 11488.4.
The operation of the special vesting rule established by this
subdivision shall be limited to circumstances where its application
will not defeat the claim of any person, including a bona fide
purchaser or encumbrancer who, pursuant to Section 11488.5, 11488.6,
or 11489, claims an interest in the property seized, notwithstanding
that the interest in the property being claimed was acquired from a
defendant whose property interest would otherwise have been subject
to divestment pursuant to this subdivision.
SEC. 15. Section 11479 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to
read:
11479. Notwithstanding
Sections 11473 and 11473.5, at any time after seizure by a law
enforcement agency of a suspected controlled substance, that amount
in excess of 10 pounds in gross weight may be destroyed without a
court order by the chief of the law enforcement agency or a
designated subordinate. Destruction shall not take place pursuant to
this section until all of the following requirements are satisfied:
(a) At least five random and representative samples have been
taken, for evidentiary purposes, from the total amount of suspected
controlled substances to be destroyed. These samples shall be in
addition to the 10 pounds required above. When the suspected
controlled substance consists of growing or harvested marijuana
plants, at least one 10 pound sample (which may include stalks,
branches, or leaves) and five representative samples consisting of
leaves or buds shall be retained for evidentiary purposes from the
total amount of suspected controlled substances to be destroyed.

(b) Photographs have been taken which reasonably demonstrate the
total amount of the suspected controlled substance to be destroyed.
(c) The gross weight of the suspected controlled substance has
been determined, either by actually weighing the suspected controlled
substance or by estimating that weight after dimensional measurement
of the total suspected controlled substance.
(d) The chief of the law enforcement agency has determined that it
is not reasonably possible to preserve the suspected controlled
substance in place, or to remove the suspected controlled substance
to another location. In making this determination, the difficulty of
transporting and storing the suspected controlled substance to
another site and the storage facilities may be taken into
consideration.
Subsequent to any destruction of a suspected controlled substance
pursuant to this section, an affidavit shall be filed within 30 days
in the court which has jurisdiction over any pending criminal
proceedings pertaining to that suspected controlled substance,
reciting the applicable information required by subdivisions (a),
(b), (c), and (d) together with information establishing the location
of the suspected controlled substance, and specifying the date and
time of the destruction. In the event that there are no criminal
proceedings pending which pertain to that suspected controlled
substance, the affidavit may be filed in any court within the county
which would have jurisdiction over a person against whom those
criminal charges might be filed.
SEC. 16. Section 11485 of the Health and Safety Code is repealed.

11485. Any peace officer of this state who, incident to a search
under a search warrant issued for a violation of Section 11358 with
respect to which no prosecution of a defendant results, seizes
personal property suspected of being used in the planting,
cultivation, harvesting, drying, processing, or transporting of
marijuana, shall, if the seized personal property is not being held
for evidence or destroyed as contraband, and if the owner of the
property is unknown or has not claimed the property, provide notice
regarding the seizure and manner of reclamation of the property to
any owner or tenant of real property on which the property was
seized. In addition, this notice shall be posted at the location of
seizure and shall be published at least once in a newspaper of
general circulation in the county in which the property was seized.
If, after 90 days following the first publication of the notice, no
owner appears and proves his or her ownership, the seized personal
property shall be deemed to be abandoned and may be disposed of by
sale to the public at public auction as set forth in Article 1
(commencing with Section 2080) of Chapter 4 of Title 6 of Part 4 of
Division 3 of the Civil Code, or may be disposed of by transfer to a
government agency or community service organization. Any profit from
the sale or transfer of the property shall be expended for
investigative services with respect to crimes involving marijuana.

SEC. 17. Section 11488 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to
read:
11488. (a) Any peace officer of this state, subsequent to making
or attempting to make an arrest for a violation of Section 11351,
11351.5, 11352, 11355, 11359, 11360, 11378,
11378.5, 11379, 11379.5, 11379.6, or 11382 of this code, or Section
182 of the Penal Code insofar as the offense involves manufacture,
sale, purchase for the purpose of sale, possession for sale or offer
to manufacture or sell, or conspiracy to commit one of those
offenses, may seize any item subject to forfeiture under subdivisions
(a) to (f), inclusive, of Section 11470. The peace officer shall
also notify the Franchise Tax Board of a seizure where there is
reasonable cause to believe that the value of the seized property
exceeds five thousand dollars ($5,000).
(b) Receipts for property seized pursuant to this section shall be
delivered to any person out of whose possession such property was
seized, in accordance with Section 1412 of the Penal Code. In the
event property seized was not seized out of anyone's possession,
receipt for the property shall be delivered to the individual in
possession of the premises at which the property was seized.
(c) There shall be a presumption affecting the burden of proof
that the person to whom a receipt for property was issued is the
owner thereof. This presumption may, however, be rebutted at the
forfeiture hearing specified in Section 11488.5.
SEC. 18. Section 11532 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to
read:
11532. (a) It is unlawful for any person to loiter in any public
place in a manner and under circumstances manifesting the purpose and
with the intent to commit an offense specified in Chapter 6
(commencing with Section 11350) and Chapter 6.5 (commencing with
Section 11400).
(b) Among circumstances that may be considered in determining
whether a person has the requisite intent to engage in drug-related
activity are that the person:
(1) Acts as a "look-out."
(2) Transfers small objects or packages for currency in a furtive
fashion.
(3) Tries to conceal himself or herself or any object that
reasonably could be involved in an unlawful drug-related activity.
(4) Uses signals or language indicative of summoning purchasers of
illegal drugs.
(5) Repeatedly beckons to, stops, attempts to stop, or engages in
conversations with passersby, whether on foot or in a motor vehicle,
indicative of summoning purchasers of illegal drugs.
(6) Repeatedly passes to or receives from passersby, whether on
foot or in a motor vehicle, money or small objects.
(7) Is under the influence of a controlled substance or possesses
narcotic or drug paraphernalia. For the purposes of this paragraph,
"narcotic or drug paraphernalia" means any device, contrivance,
instrument, or apparatus designed or marketed for the use of smoking,
injecting, ingesting, or consuming marijuana, hashish,
PCP , or any controlled substance,
including, but not limited to, roach clips, cigarette papers, and
rollers designed or marketed for use in smoking a controlled
substance.
cool: Has been convicted in any court within this state, within five
years prior to the arrest under this chapter, of any violation
involving the use, possession, or sale of any of the substances
referred to in Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 11350) or Chapter
6.5 (commencing with Section 11400), or has been convicted of any
violation of those provisions or substantially similar laws of any
political subdivision of this state or of any other state.
(9) Is currently subject to any order prohibiting his or her
presence in any high drug activity geographic area.
(10) Has engaged, within six months prior to the date of arrest
under this section, in any behavior described in this subdivision,
with the exception of paragraph cool:, or in any other behavior
indicative of illegal drug-related activity.
(c) The list of circumstances set forth in subdivision (b) is not
exclusive. The circumstances set forth in subdivision (b) should be
considered particularly salient if they occur in an area that is
known for unlawful drug use and trafficking, or if they occur on or
in premises that have been reported to law enforcement as a place
suspected of unlawful drug activity. Any other relevant circumstances
may be considered in determining whether a person has the requisite
intent. Moreover, no one circumstance or combination of circumstances
is in itself determinative of intent. Intent must be determined
based on an evaluation of the particular circumstances of each case.
SEC. 19. Section 11703 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to
read:
11703. As used in this division:
(a) "Marketing of illegal controlled substances" means the
possession for sale, sale, or distribution of a specified illegal
controlled substance, and shall include all aspects of making such a
controlled substance available, including, but not limited to, its
manufacture.
(b) "Individual user of an illegal controlled substance" means the
individual whose use of a specified illegal controlled substance is
the basis of an action brought under this division.
(c) "Level 1 offense" means the possession for sale of less than
four ounces or the sale or furnishing of less than one ounce of a
specified illegal controlled substance , or the cultivation
of at least 25 plants but less than 50 plants, the furnishing of more
than 28.5 grams, or the possession for sale or sale of up to four
pounds, of marijuana .
(d) "Level 2 offense" means the possession for sale of four ounces
or more but less than eight ounces of, or the sale or furnishing of
one ounce or more but less than two ounces of, a specified illegal
controlled substance , or the cultivation of at least 50 but
less than 75 plants, the possession for sale of four pounds or more
but less than eight pounds, or the sale or furnishing of more than
one pound but less than five pounds, of marijuana .
(e) "Level 3 offense" means the possession for sale of eight
ounces or more but less than 16 ounces of, or the sale or furnishing
of two ounces or more but less than four ounces of, a specified
illegal controlled substance , or the cultivation of at
least 75 but less than 100 plants, the possession for sale of eight
pounds or more but less than 16 pounds, or the sale or furnishing of
more than five pounds but less than 10 pounds, of marijuana 
.
(f) "Level 4 offense" means the possession for sale of 16 ounces
or more of, or the sale or furnishing of four ounces or more of, a
specified illegal controlled substance , or the cultivation
of 100 plants or more of, the possession for sale of 16 pounds of, or
the sale or furnishing of more than 10 pounds of, marijuana
.
(g) "Participate in the marketing of illegal controlled substances"
means to transport, import into this state, sell, possess with
intent to sell, furnish, administer, or give away, or offer to
transport, import into this state, sell, furnish, administer, or give
away a specified illegal controlled substance. "Participate in the
marketing of illegal controlled substances" shall include the
manufacturing of an illegal controlled substance, but shall not
include the purchase or receipt of an illegal controlled substance
for personal use only.
(h) "Person" means an individual, governmental entity,
corporation, firm, trust, partnership, or incorporated or
unincorporated association, existing under or authorized by the laws
of this state, another state, or a foreign country.
(i) "Period of illegal use" means, in relation to the individual
user of an illegal controlled substance, the time of the individual's
first illegal use of an illegal controlled substance to the accrual
of the cause of action.
(j) "Place of illegal activity" means, in relation to the
individual user of an illegal controlled substance, each county in
which the individual illegally possesses or uses an illegal
controlled substance during the period of the individual's use of an
illegal controlled substance.
(k) "Place of participation" means, in relation to a defendant in
an action brought under this division, each county in which the
person participates in the marketing of illegal controlled substances
during the period of the person's participation in the marketing of
illegal controlled substances.
() "Specified illegal controlled substance" means cocaine,
phencyclidine, heroin, or methamphetamine and any other illegal
controlled substance the manufacture, cultivation, importation into
this state, transportation, possession for sale, sale, furnishing,
administering, or giving away of which is a violation of Section
11351, 11351.5, 11352, 11358, 11359, 11360, 
11378.5, 11379.5, or 11383.
SEC. 20. Section 11705 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to
read:
11705. (a) Any one or more of the following persons may bring an
action for damages caused by an individual's use of an illegal
controlled substance:
(1) A parent, legal guardian, child, spouse, or sibling of the
individual controlled substance user.
(2) An individual who was exposed to an illegal controlled
substance in utero.
(3) An employer of the individual user of an illegal controlled
substance.
(4) A medical facility, insurer, employer, or other
nongovernmental entity that funds a drug treatment program or
employee assistance program for the individual user of an illegal
controlled substance or that otherwise expended money on behalf of
the individual user of an illegal controlled substance. No public
agency other than a public agency medical facility shall have a cause
of action under this division.
(5) A person injured as a result of the willful, reckless, or
negligent actions of an individual user of an illegal controlled
substance.
(b) A person entitled to bring an action under this section may
seek damages from one or more of the following:
(1) A person who sold, administered, or furnished an illegal
controlled substance to the individual user of the illegal controlled
substance.
(2) A person who knowingly participated in the marketing of
illegal controlled substances, if all of the following apply:
(A) The place of illegal activity by the individual user of an
illegal controlled substance is within the city, city and county, or
unincorporated area of the county in which the defendant's place of
participation is situated.
(B) The defendant's participation in the marketing of illegal
controlled substances was connected with the same type of specified
illegal controlled substance used by the individual user of an
illegal controlled substance, and the defendant has been convicted of
an offense for that type of specified illegal controlled substance.
(C) The defendant participated in the marketing of illegal
controlled substances at any time during the period the individual
user of an illegal controlled substance illegally used the controlled
substance.
(D) The underlying offense for the conviction of the specified
illegal controlled substance occurred in the same county as the
individual user's place of use.
(c) As used in subdivision (b), knowingly _
"knowingly _ participated in the marketing of illegal controlled
substances" means a conviction for transporting, importing into this
state, selling, possessing with intent to sell, furnishing,
administering, or giving away, or offering to transport, import into
this state, sell, furnish, administer, or give away a specified
illegal controlled substance or a quantity of marijuana
specified in subdivision (e), (f), (g), or (h)
_ (c), (d), (e), or (f) _ of Section 11703, which are
separate in time.
(d) A person entitled to bring an action under this section may
recover all of the following damages:
(1) Economic damages, including, but not limited to, the cost of
treatment and rehabilitation, medical expenses, loss of economic or
educational potential, loss of productivity, absenteeism, support
expenses, accidents or injury, and any other pecuniary loss
proximately caused by the use of an illegal controlled substance.
(2) Noneconomic damages, including, but not limited to, physical
and emotional pain, suffering, physical impairment, emotional
distress, medical anguish, disfigurement, loss of enjoyment, loss of
companionship, services and consortium, and other nonpecuniary losses
proximately caused by an individual's use of an illegal controlled
substance.
(3) Exemplary damages.
(4) Reasonable attorney fees.
(5) Costs of suit, including, but not limited to, reasonable
expenses for expert testimony.
SEC. 21. Division 10.3 (commencing with Section 11720) is added to
the Health and Safety Code, to read:

DIVISION 10.3. marijuana


11720. For purposes of this division, "marijuana" means all parts
of the plant Cannabis sativa L., whether growing or not; the seeds
thereof; the resin extracted from any part of the plant; concentrated
cannabis; and every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative,
mixture, or preparation of the plant, its seeds or resin. It does not
include the mature stalks of the plant, fiber produced from the
stalks, oil or cake made from the seeds of the plant, any other
compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of
the mature stalks (except the resin extracted therefrom), fiber, oil,
or cake, or the sterilized seed of the plant that is incapable of
germination.
11721. It is lawful and not a violation of California law for a
person 21 years of age or older to possess or transport marijuana.
11722. (a) It is lawful and not a violation of California law to
sell marijuana to a person 21 years of age or older as provided in
Chapter 14.5 (commencing with Section 25400) of Division 9 of the
Business and Professions Code. Any sale of marijuana by a person not
licensed as provided therein after the date determined by Section
25406 of the Business and Professions Code is a violation of this
division.
(b) Until the date specified by subdivision (a), it is lawful and
not a violation of California law to sell marijuana to a person 21
years of age or older.
11723. (a) It is lawful and not a violation of California law for
a person 21 years of age or older to smoke or ingest marijuana in
one's home, or in any private residence, or upon the grounds of that
home or residence not visible from any public place or neighboring
property, with the consent of a resident 21 years of age or older.
(b) It is an infraction to smoke or ingest marijuana in a public
place.
11724. (a) It is lawful and not a violation of California law,
except as provided in subdivision (f) of Section 647 of the Penal
Code, or in Section 11729, for a person 21 years of age or older to
be under the influence of marijuana.
11725. It is unlawful for a person not licensed pursuant to
Chapter 14.5 (commencing with Section 25400) of Division 9 of the
Business and Professions Code to cultivate marijuana, except in
compliance with the following requirements:
(a) marijuana may be cultivated only by persons 21 years of age or
older.
(b) marijuana may be cultivated only in a location in the home or
yard in which the marijuana is not visible from any public place. For
purposes of this paragraph, "public place" does not include air
space, or any place from which a viewer would violate the cultivator'
s legitimate expectation of privacy.
(c) Each person 21 years of age or older may have in cultivation
no more than 10 mature plants at any given time.
(d) A licensed nursery may cultivate seedlings for sale to persons
21 years of age or older, but shall destroy any seedling if it has
not been purchased by a consumer before it reaches maturity.
(e) Aside from the sale of seedlings by a licensed nursery,
marijuana cultivated pursuant to this section may not be sold.
(f) The presence of persons younger than 21 years of age in a
household does not affect the lawfulness of the cultivation of
marijuana under this division.
11726. (a) Unlawful cultivation of marijuana is an infraction,
punishable by a fine of up to one hundred dollars ($100).
(b) Providing or selling marijuana to, or purchasing or
cultivating marijuana for a person under 21 years of age is an
infraction, punishable by a fine of up to one hundred dollars ($100).
However, this division is not intended to preclude prosecution under
Section 272 of the Penal Code, or any similar provision, where
appropriate.
(c) Possession or use of marijuana by a person under 21 years of
age is an infraction, punishable by a fine of up to one hundred
dollars ($100).
(d) Any other violation of this division is an infraction,
punishable by a fine of up to one hundred dollars ($100).
11727. Notwithstanding any other law, it is lawful and not a
violation of California law to possess, transport, or sell the mature
stalks of the plant Cannabis sativa L., fiber produced from the
stalks, oil or cake made from the seeds of the plant, any other
compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of
the mature stalks (except the resin extracted therefrom, which is
regulated as marijuana), fiber, oil, or cake, or the sterilized seed
of the plant that is incapable of germination.
11728. State or local funds may not be expended on, and state or
local law enforcement or other personnel may not assist in, the
enforcement of any federal or other laws that are inconsistent with
this division, or provide for greater sanctions for conduct
prohibited by this division.
11729. This division may not be construed to affect or limit any
criminal statute that forbids impairment while engaging in dangerous
activities like driving, or that penalizes bringing marijuana to a
school enrolling pupils in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12,
inclusive.
11730. This division may not be construed to affect the rights of
employers concerning employees who use marijuana.
SEC. 22. Part 14.6 (commencing with Section 34001) is added to
Division 2 of the Revenue and Taxation Code, to read:

PART 14.6. marijuana FEES


CHAPTER 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS AND DEFINITIONS


34001. It is the intent of the people in enacting this part to
discourage drug use and to raise revenue for drug education and drug
awareness programs by enacting a supplemental fee on marijuana.
34002. This part shall be known and may be cited as the
"marijuana Supplemental Fee Law."
34003. Except where the context otherwise requires, the
definitions set forth in Part 1 (commencing with Section 6001) govern
the construction of this part.
34004. For purposes of this part:
(a) "marijuana" includes all marijuana, concentrated cannabis, and
their derivatives, except that marijuana containing less than
one-half of 1 percent tetrahydrocannabinol by weight is not subject
to this supplemental fee. However, no fee shall be imposed under this
part on marijuana used medicinally with a doctor's recommendation as
specified in Section 11362.5 of the Health and Safety Code.
(b) "Retailer" means any retailer licensed pursuant to Section
23394.1 of the Business and Professions Code who sells marijuana at
retail.
CHAPTER 2. IMPOSITION OF FEE


34011. Until a different fee is determined pursuant to Section
34032 there is hereby imposed a fee of fifty dollars ($50) per ounce
(avoirdupois) for the sale of marijuana sold at retail in this state
on or after the date determined by Section 25406 of the Business and
Professions Code.
CHAPTER 3. COLLECTION AND ADMINISTRATION


34021. To the extent feasible or practicable, the provisions of
Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 6451), Chapter 6 (commencing with
Section 6701), Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6901), and Chapter
8 (commencing with Section 7051) of Part 1 shall govern returns and
payments, determinations, collections of fees, overpayments and
refunds, and administration under this part.
34022. The board shall enforce this part and may prescribe,
adopt, and enforce rules and regulations relating to the
administration and enforcement of this part. The board may prescribe
the extent to which any ruling and regulation shall be applied
without retroactive effect.
CHAPTER 4. DISPOSITION OF PROCEEDS AND ADJUSTMENT OF THE FEE


34031. Any amount required to be paid to the state under this
part shall be paid to the board in the form of a remittance payable
to the State Board of Equalization. The board shall transmit the
payments to the Treasurer to be deposited in the Drug Abuse
Prevention Supplemental Funding Account, which is hereby created in
the General Fund. Upon appropriation by the Legislature, the moneys
in the fund shall be expended exclusively for drug education,
awareness, and rehabilitation programs under the jurisdiction of the
Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs, or any successor to that
agency.
34032. The fee imposed pursuant to Chapter 2 shall be annually
reviewed by the Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs, or any
successor to that agency, to determine whether a fee less than that
specified in Chapter 2 will provide sufficient resources to support
its drug education, awareness, and rehabilitation programs. Based on
this annual review, the Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs shall
adjust that fee to an amount not to exceed fifty dollars ($50) per
ounce (avoirdupois) of marijuana that is necessary to fund its drug
education, awareness, and rehabilitation programs, and that amount
shall be collected in place of the fee specified in Chapter 2.
SEC. 23. Section 23222 of the Vehicle Code is amended to read:
23222. (a) No person shall
have in his or her possession on his or her person, while driving a
motor vehicle upon a highway or on lands, as described in subdivision
(b) of Section 23220, any bottle, can, or other receptacle,
containing any alcoholic beverage which has been opened, or a seal
broken, or the contents of which have been partially removed.

(b) Except as authorized by law, every person who possesses, while
driving a motor vehicle upon a highway or on lands, as described in
subdivision (b) of Section 23220, not more than one avoirdupois ounce
of marijuana, other than concentrated
cannabis as defined by Section 11006.5 of the Health and
Safety Code, is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a
fine of not more than one hundred dollars ($100). Notwithstanding any
other provision of law, if the person has been previously convicted
three or more times of an offense described in this subdivision
during the two-year period immediately preceding the date of
commission of the violation to be charged, the previous convictions
shall also be charged in the accusatory pleading and, if found to be
true by the jury upon a jury trial or by the court upon a court trial
or if admitted by the person, Sections 1000.1 and 1000.2 of the
Penal Code are applicable to the person, and the court shall divert
and refer the person for education, treatment, or rehabilitation,
without a court hearing or determination or the concurrence of the
district attorney, to an appropriate community program which will
accept the person. If the person is so diverted and referred, the
person is not subject to the fine specified in this subdivision. In
any case in which a person is arrested for a violation of this
subdivision and does not demand to be taken before a magistrate, the
person shall be released by the arresting officer upon presentation
of satisfactory evidence of identity and giving his or her written
promise to appear in court, as provided in Section 40500, and shall
not be subjected to booking. 
SEC. 24. Section 40000.15 of the Vehicle Code is amended to read:
40000.15. A violation of any of the following provisions shall
constitute a misdemeanor, and not an infraction:
Subdivision (g), (j), (k), (l), or (m) of Section 22658, relating
to unlawfully towed or stored vehicles.
Sections 23103 and 23104, relating to reckless driving.
Section 23109, relating to speed contests or exhibitions.
Subdivision (a) of Section 23110, relating to throwing at
vehicles.
Section 23152, relating to driving under the influence. 
Subdivision (b) of Section 23222, relating to possession of
marijuana. 
Subdivision (a) or (b) of Section 23224, relating to persons under
21 years of age knowingly driving, or being a passenger in, a motor
vehicle carrying any alcoholic beverage.
Section 23253, relating to directions on toll highways or
vehicular crossings.
Section 23332, relating to trespassing.
Section 24002.5, relating to unlawful operation of a farm vehicle.

Section 24011.3, relating to vehicle bumper strength notices.
Section 27150.1, relating to sale of exhaust systems.
Section 27362, relating to child passenger seat restraints.
Section 28050, relating to true mileage driven.
Section 28050.5, relating to nonfunctional odometers.
Section 28051, relating to resetting odometers.
Section 28051.5, relating to devices to reset odometers.
Subdivision (d) of Section 28150, relating to possessing four or
more jamming devices.
SEC. 25. Section 18901.3 of the Welfare and Institutions Code is
amended to read:
18901.3. (a) Subject to the limitations of subdivision (b),
pursuant to Section 115(d)(1)(A) of Public Law 104-193 (21 U.S.C.
Sec. 862a(d)(1)(A)), California opts out of the provisions of Section
115(a)(2) of Public Law 104-193 (21 U.S.C. Sec. 862a(a)(2)). A
convicted drug felon shall be eligible to receive food stamps under
this section.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person who has been
convicted of unlawfully transporting, importing into this state,
selling, furnishing, administering, giving away, possessing for sale,
purchasing for purposes of sale, manufacturing a controlled
substance, possessing precursors with the intent to manufacture a
controlled substance , or cultivating, harvesting, or
processing marijuana or any part thereof pursuant to Section 11358 of
the Health and Safety Code .
(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person who has been
convicted of unlawfully soliciting, inducing, encouraging, or
intimidating a minor to participate in any activity listed in
subdivision (b).
(d) As a condition of eligibility to receive food stamps pursuant
to subdivision (a), an applicant convicted of a felony drug offense
that is not excluded under subdivision (b) or (c) shall be required
to provide proof of one of the following subsequent to the most
recent drug-related conviction:
(1) Completion of a government-recognized drug treatment program.
(2) Participation in a government-recognized drug treatment
program.
(3) Enrollment in a government-recognized drug treatment program.
(4) Placement on a waiting list for a government-recognized drug
treatment program.
(5) Other evidence that the illegal use of controlled substances
has ceased, as established by State Department of Social Services
regulations.
(e) Notwithstanding the Administrative Procedure Act (Chapter 3.5
(commencing with Section 11340) of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of
the Government Code), the department may implement this section
through an all-county letter or similar instructions from the
director no later than January 1, 2005.
(f) The department shall adopt regulations as otherwise necessary
to implement this section no later than July 1, 2005. Emergency
regulations adopted for implementation of this section may be adopted
by the director in accordance with the Administrative Procedure Act.
The adoption of emergency regulations shall be deemed to be an
emergency and necessary for immediate preservation of the public
peace, health and safety, or general welfare. The emergency
regulations shall be exempt from review by the Office of
Administrative Law. The emergency regulations authorized by this
section shall be submitted to the Office of Administrative Law for
filing with the Secretary of State and shall remain in effect for no
more than 180 days.
SEC. 26. The provisions of this act are severable. If any
provision of this act or its application is held invalid, that
invalidity shall not affect other provisions or applications that can
be given effect without the invalid provision or application.
SEC. 27. No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to
Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution because
the only costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school
district will be incurred because this act creates a new crime or
infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty
for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the
Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the
meaning of Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California
Constitution.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 10, 2010)

I would not like for this thread to turn into a debate about it..... that's why I posted a link to the other thread.....


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 10, 2010)

good smoke, .....

and the seedlings are starting to show sex....... dude may be right about all or most females ...... F-B is Chemo Cindy, Twilight, Maui Skunk

Mostly PK under fluoros....

Chemo Cindy babies with PK Momma.....


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## DWR (Jan 10, 2010)

looks fucking dank man, keep that shit up !

Wouldnt mind smoking that blubber shit myself, looks a Grade !!!!!!!!!


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## wonderblunder (Jan 10, 2010)

Looking real good. Think Im gonna use (2) 400ws for veg. flouros are a little slow.........


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 10, 2010)

the bud shot with the veg room pics is Twilight....  ..... here is the Chemo Cindy it's lovely too.... .......

Flower update later


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Jan 10, 2010)

Lookin good! Oh and a quick point on the legislature. I understand none of the proposed measures pre-empt legal patients existing culitvation and possesion limits. I agree however that this is a smoke screen to cover the up the greed of the large dispensaries and cultivators like OU.


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## wonderblunder (Jan 11, 2010)

Looks delicious. Where did the twilight come from


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 11, 2010)

Twilight came via a lovely Northern Cali Breeder/Grower


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## Drella (Jan 11, 2010)

mmmmmm, LD's twilight! yeah! baby!


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 12, 2010)

I harvested the three mothers prematurely (by two plus weeks). I don't have the time right now to deal with the spider mites, which were sticking pretty much just to the mothers. Sad really...... but continuing on ..... I think they should be fed soon.... and I am going to shower the them tomorrow...... Craziest F'n couple weeks in AGES


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 12, 2010)

LOL.... Whoops I forgot to post the pics......

I think the Jacks will go to about week 10.....

What a mixed box of ganja


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 12, 2010)

1000W HPS ballast being replaced tomorrow..... and a 400W added..... thinking bout throwing the seedlings in there ......

Oh yeah.... and the Sensi Star decided to finally come around and veg for me!  stoked all around.... regardless major setbacks..... like lack of sleep.......


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## Bublonichronic (Jan 12, 2010)

damn TLD, thats what i call an ideal flower room!, also congrats on the new addition to the fam. man.


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## w1ckedchowda (Jan 12, 2010)

Mannnn that one plant in the front left looks to be SOOOOO fat!


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks guys!

The way they are in there is kind of just how they were thrown in there.... but it came out nice, just some minor adjustments to make . I still have room for 10 plants or so on that side.

See, the addition of the third set of plants in the box was supposed to mark the beginning of using additional lighting (I planned on using 2 vert 400W HPS in the center isle). Things didn't work out that way, with the original 1000W ballast going out (capacitor) when we went to the hospital, that and a few other setbacks. So...... The Veg room is Over full. I have 1 horizontal 400W HPS to hang over the center isle in the flowering room, and was lucky enough to borrow a replacement 1000W ballast for the original "jungle side" of the flowering room. I have been sanitizing the "jungle side" and am about ready to throw all the seedlings in there to continue vegging under the 1000W before males are weeded out (as in outside, to a further removed location until I am ready to harvest their pollen) and more plants are added to switch to start flowering (about 4 weeks away)..... by which time I should be able to replace the borrowed 1000W ballast with a brand new one of my own......

A hectic course of events, predictable only by guesses. And the future holds Fate, but only as a past tense concept, the present holds hope, and the past holds happiness, .

Those two plants (looking to be sooo fat  ) are 6 1/2 and 5 1/2 weeks into flower, they are both Jacks, and I see Great nugs coming from them. 

Even the spider mite infested mothers buds are very nice (just premature, exhibited stunted development at the mouths of the spider mites).... busy trimming them now..... throw a couple pics up after I am done


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## wonderblunder (Jan 12, 2010)

Looking very good in there. sounds like things are about to take off........


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## Drella (Jan 12, 2010)

looking very perpetual in there! inspiring everytime i come here!


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 14, 2010)

thanks..... and speaking of perpetual.... I just put three more plants in the flowering room Yesterday.

Cuz for veg...... All 3 Maui Skunk Seedlings look male  ...... two are confirmed.... I am probably going to collect pollen from them so it wasn't a complete waste growing them out.

Twilight A and C were Female, B was male and was chopped .

All 3 Chemo Cindy seedlings were female..... two were removed to flowering room, one remains for mother hood  

Once I get a couple batches of clones circulated through the veg room I can start more seeds  (couple weeks)

Its only the plants from seed that are pictured

Accept the last two pics.... My Sensi Star finally decided to reveg for me.... so now.... Its ON! 

seedlings and PK mother were watered yesterday... the rest will get theirs later today


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 14, 2010)

I added something into the flowering room yesterday..... .... 430W HPS..... and three more plants ...... I can still fit 5-7 more plants on that one side 

*The Jacks are at Week 7 tomorrow*...... they were fed FFBB 1.5 Tblspns/gal BBB Full Strength, and FFTB 1/2 Strength. 2 plus weeks to go before harvest on them. One more feeding....... then just flush with HiBrix and/or BBB.

*Chemo Cindy's, a Blue Dream, and Maui Skunks are all 3 weeks into flower*, they were fed 1 tblspn/gal FFBB BBB 1/2 strength, and FFTB 1/4 Strength. The Mystery Clone turned out to by Chemo Cindy......

*A Purple Kush, Blue Dream, the 6 SilverBacks, A Jack Herer and the New Seedling additions are all either at the end or beginning of their first week in there* . They were fed 1 Tblspn FFBB, half strength BBB.

All plants feedings were watered in to approx 10% runoff.

*Gotta Get Cuttings off the Blue Dream*!


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## wonderblunder (Jan 14, 2010)

Loking real good in there. You just keep adding the watts up.... Where is the Maui Skunk from? I will be getting some of the Sweet Island Skunk, but they need 5 weeks to get clones ready..... I really need some skunk in the room. I was thinking (and looking) back at your grow, and when I arrived. So many things have changed in there it is amazing! I really like your flowering room, and your effort is commendable in this perpetual operation. I don't have the time right now to keep my little room perpetual, and no plans on keeping it perpetual in the future. Flowering room is looking great in there.


That pic of the Sweet Island Skunk doesn't do the justice. That was the last nug in the jar, and the trichromes were damaged and what not.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 14, 2010)

I could tell.... that's why I didn't really comment on it...... I get all my strains from growers/breeders for the most part..... so unless you know them... your kind of shit out of luck.... I don't disclose their info though, sorry.....

Honestly.... despite the lack of pic quality, the notable damage, and the lack of available samples..... I am sorry to say, I don't think you would get the same thing out of the Island Skunk as I do the Maui Skunk..... I do think you would get some excellent herbs.......

I have grown lots of Ganja....... Maui Skunk is certainly up there with other elite strains..... Its not just the final product, but the plants themselves that prove it for me.....

I haven't seen the Island Skunk, or More Importantly, grown it. I am willing to give it a try though for sure  Then I could offer a more educated opinion


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## DST (Jan 14, 2010)

Hey TLD, all is looking well in the grow crib bru. Nice updates as usual, loads of good looking plants and pics. And have you had a new addition to the fam? I see a few congratulations being posted. If so, nice one!!

All the best, peace out, DST


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## DWR (Jan 14, 2010)

Excellent jobs tld


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## w1ckedchowda (Jan 14, 2010)

great job mang, your plants are *BEASTS* kid.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 14, 2010)

w1ckedchowda said:


> great job mang, your plants are *BEASTS* kid.


The way that was written makes me feel really good inside. Thank you very much,


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 14, 2010)

DST said:


> Hey TLD, all is looking well in the grow crib bru. Nice updates as usual, loads of good looking plants and pics. And have you had a new addition to the fam? I see a few congratulations being posted. If so, nice one!!
> 
> All the best, peace out, DST


This Earth, the animals, the plants, the mountains, and snow, the rain, the oceans, our winds, the Beating Sun, gravity, forests, valleys, meadows, creeks, rivers,and streams, the air we breathe, the energy that travels, it all comes together to form such precious and perfect Life.

That they work together so perfectly, that we thrive on it thriving, all of the life outside of ourselves, That which feeds our souls. That Children may be born into a world of clean air, water, earth, and people. That Our Children come into the world with brilliant futures to behold, dreams to aspire to. That Our Children grow into a world of Justice, Virtue, Honor, Valor for Truth, and Pureness of Heart and intention. That Our Children be born into a world they can Love, Cherish, Find their place in, and Make into Their own for Generations to come. That we work together to create for our Children this World is my purpose. That we can All show Our Children Love.

The Earth is being eaten away, the water poisoned. Our weather we have compromised, and our rains and Oceans are being polluted. Our Creeks and Rivers and Valleys and Mountains are being destroyed. The air we breathe is being polluted, and the energy being wasted away to nothing. Our lives are so dependent upon our Natural world and Surroundings, yet we allow them to be destroyed, so we allow our Children's futures to crumble, their dreams to fall out of existence.

So I grow. And as I grow, I learn my place in this life, I have discovered my humility, and my dependence upon you, my fellow man. For I cannot save the world. And the world does need saving. From ourselves, as we watch it slip away, holding onto our foolish and vein greed and illusion of Power.

For it is in the soil that Lives, The water that it holds, and the Air and Energies that flow through it, that True Power lives. It is in the Sun, This Earth, and the Gravity that holds us together. 

We can shape this world. Together. But only together can it form prosperity for our Children, for apart and alone, we each claw at vein successes, we each succumb our souls to ideas void of the essences and wonders of Life.

People are cruel to each other. People do not see the world for what it is, what it was, and what it soon will be. This world is NOT JUST. Virtue and Valor are remembered by fairytales, and rarely practiced. We are afraid of each other, of the Truth, and where we Truly fall in Life. Our Children are born into Unspoken Slavery. Not just Here in the U.S but worldwide. 

I grow for these reasons. Not just plants, but I myself, I grow. I learn, and am further humbled every day by each new experience and revelation to relativity. So much comes together for these plants, and so as I stare at them, I am looking in the mirror, and in so many ways. And I can see all of your faces there too..... that we tend to such life.

I stopped growing years ago......

But a few years ago.... A new life was coming into the world..... and as the sun set...... As I saw Natures Beauty in Her Glory...... I knew it was time to open my wings..... To Rouse the Dragons of this world from their Magical Slumber...... To Fly together.... To grow together.....To breathe the smoke of wisdom from our nostrils unto Society, and breathe Fire into the World once more . To fullfill Our Solemn Oath, and Purpose.

For in Nature, It is Fire that cleans. Fire that allows for rebirth and new Life. To break down completely what has gone awry and allow for Nature to Restore more Harmonious Balance......

And That is what His name MEANS....


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## wonderblunder (Jan 14, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> I could tell.... that's why I didn't really comment on it...... I get all my strains from growers/breeders for the most part..... so unless you know them... your kind of shit out of luck.... I don't disclose their info though, sorry.....
> 
> Honestly.... despite the lack of pic quality, the notable damage, and the lack of available samples..... I am sorry to say, I don't think you would get the same thing out of the Island Skunk as I do the Maui Skunk..... I do think you would get some excellent herbs.......
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have a good source for your genetics. I am left to seedbanks and local dispensaries/ patients for my genetics. I am impressed, because I don't think I would be getting these results out of typical bagseed. Maui Skunk looks killer. I would like to find 4-5 staple strains for my garden. The Island Skunk may make it into a journal in the future....


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 15, 2010)

Got a taste of what is to come 

Grown by some one else.

First 3 pics are Jack Herer (same cut as mine I believe)

Second 3 are Silverback

The grower was battling spidermites through out there grow, . Could have gone just a little longer due to that . But Its All Excellent Smoke indeed! Well cured too .

Completely dispels my earlier fears about the Silverback .


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## TCurtiss (Jan 15, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> Got a taste of what is to come
> 
> Grown by some one else.
> 
> ...


Very nice TLD

I love to hang out with Mr Herer and I happen to have a few clones of Mr Emery seeds Jack Herer clones growing and cannot wait to see how these guys come out

T


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 15, 2010)

very nice.... bet that will turn out great 

I got the weight off the three mothers I harvested about a week ago........

Twilight - 47.9 g (two weeks primie +spidermite damage)
Chemo Cindy - 49.1 g (two weeks primie + spidermite damge)
Maui Skunk - 44.2 (two weeks primie + spidermite damage)

total off the three plants is 141.2 g (5 zips) ....... a little more than 1/3 what they should have been :/ still look good and smoke good..... but its not the same :/


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 15, 2010)

*Today Marks day 21 for the Chemo Cindy/Maui Skunk batch*.

I will start taking better pics of them soon . but I must say..... I am very impressed


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## wonderblunder (Jan 16, 2010)

Sounds good. Is the silverback the strain that was succeptable to the SM? 
Looks like some real good bud. Looking forward to seeing the Maui Skunk/ Chemo Cindy batch..... Both those strains look top shelf. still searching..........


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 16, 2010)

It was the Silverback that introduced spidermites into the garden altogether yes. Ironically, I stuck the original Silverback Mothe outside to die right after chopping the shit out of her. She has healthy new growth now, and I haven't tended to her at all, she has been sustaining the hard winter outside, she lives and she grows, and it really appears as though she has shed her spider mites too. I may bring her back inside...... if she could just last a couple more weeks out there. I don't think that she is flowering, which is pretty interesting to me. The WC I threw out there with her past away long ago, yet she remains, growing a little here and there even, .

Searching for?

I did a bunch of research into the Island Sweet Skunk...... its nothing like Maui Skunk, but looks like some Super fun growing and dank smoking herb.


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## wonderblunder (Jan 16, 2010)

Thats amazing with the Silver Back. I am searching for some staple strains. In my mind, that is something that clones well, grows and responds well to my tactics, yields, exceptional quality. I have 15 strains right now, and need to spit that by a 3rd. They all mean something to me though.........


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 16, 2010)

I know what you mean......

Real SR71 PK .... Sensi Star .... and now Maui Skunk and Chemo Cindy are my 4 current and permanent staples. Twilight hasn't made it due to lack of cloning success.

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around not growing any of the others I am growing......

I am trying to work it out so I never have to let go of any with promise. Its becoming increasingly difficult because of financial reasons...... but more importantly, electricity....... not so much paying for it..... but getting it all set up....

Any electricians out there want to come stay for the spring time?


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## wonderblunder (Jan 16, 2010)

Those strains you have are fantastic, Right now the Maui Skunk just gets me excited..... Someday I will find some keepers....... I understand what you are saying with the electricity. I am definitely switching over to 240v, for various reasons, and this is causing me to research the electricity issues. Need more power?
What is the favorite strain among your patients?


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## w1ckedchowda (Jan 16, 2010)

theloadeddragon said:


> I know what you mean......
> 
> Real SR71 PK .... Sensi Star .... and now Maui Skunk and Chemo Cindy are my 4 current and permanent staples. Twilight hasn't made it due to lack of cloning success.
> 
> ...


oooooooOOOOOOOoooOOooOO how's the sensi star grow out?

I've toked it, but YEARS ago.

Shit tasted like lemon drops with a hint of pine, but also very skunky. Got me SUPER fucking high. Am I close?


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 16, 2010)

I grew it outdoors 09 the journal will be in my signature for another hour or so...... I am about to put my 2010 outdoor thread in my journal. Good flowering pics of the Sensi Star start around pg 80 something in the 09 journal. There is smoke reports, plenty of pics etc. Indeed I will talk more about Sensi Star in this thread here very soon .......

And yes.... I always seem to need more electricity.... and have it routed to all the right places...... but I am rich monetarily by no means. So I have to do what I can, and deal with what I have.


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## theloadeddragon (Jan 16, 2010)

Wonder what would happen if I exercised my free speech and stopped biting my tongue...... LOL

But that would be a lot of work.........

Id really rather not filter through thousands of threads and posts, to show the reality of what is going on with this Character......


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## lavenderstar (Jan 16, 2010)

*FDD just gave TLD 3 infractions for the SAME post! the one posted above ^^^

And Banned him too!

We are going to talk about what he will do after the 10 days are up....... He was planning on updating tonight..... I don't do the journal thing, sorry fellas!*


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## lavenderstar (Jan 16, 2010)

why does it say he is still online? He got banned.... He is outside having a cigarette..... why does it say he is still online?

Is FDD going through all of TLD's stuff logged in as him?


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## #1Raiderfan420 (Jan 16, 2010)

I don't understand what this whole being banned thing is about. Who is FDD? So he is banned for 10 days afrom RIU? Interesting 

I can't believe how strong that Silverback is to be living outside. If she makes it she should be one strong plant afte all that shock.


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## lavenderstar (Jan 16, 2010)

I doubt you'll find out here on RIU...

He is talking about moving all his journals elsewhere

He is tired of FDD....

fdd2blk is a mod on this site.

TLD was banned for the post he posted on this journal......

TLD basically got banned for calling FDD out.

FDD has done these types of things here many many times.... to many people

TLD is my husband. they have had run ins before. TLD has been doing everything he can for as long as I can remember to stay out of any debates with FDD, to hold is tongue from saying anything about FDD or even provoking FDD to reply to any of the TLDs threads

TLD has even refrained from general conversation with other users on this site from fear of unbased backlash from FDD.


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## lavenderstar (Jan 16, 2010)

TLD won't be continuing this journal here. Or his outdoor thread (?)

he will journal on a different site.

TLD is leaving because of FDD.

He said he will post something when he isn't banned. I won't let him post as me, I don't want to get banned, I like the cooking section


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## treemansbuds (Jan 17, 2010)

Another loss due to war and jealousy.......
Can't we all just get along? 
How do we benefit as a site if we get kicked off for speaking our mind. This is America ...... right? ....... O'crap I may have just bought my ticket to the side line for that comment. Scoot over TLD, and bust out that bong, TMB's is joining you in the penalty box.


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## treemansbuds (Jan 17, 2010)

Unreal,....all i can say. 
Knowing TLD on a personal basis, all I can say is "the guy is golden". Never has there been a negative/bad word directed to me. He may see something i'm doing wrong, he will let me know what is right, but in a manor that teaches, not insults. i know my place on the "ladder" of growing, so I seek critisum, and prase from him. 
I can only compare this to two male Lions, one raises his pride different then the other, and when the two cross paths, fur is going to fly, just the way it is. 
These two lions are respected by many here, guess this is what happens when two lions live in the same jungle


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## TCurtiss (Jan 17, 2010)

That is sad to read he will not be coming back, I am sure that he has his reasons

Wish him all the best in his travels


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## lavenderstar (Jan 17, 2010)

the sad part is he said it has nothing to do with growing.

FDD has deleted the post about 10 times or so in different places around RIU that TLD posted it. he says "its too bad too, it was somewhat well written." he said a few other things too..... but I don't want to get banned for posting them, because he says its what he would say if he wasn't biting his tongue. He isn't happy at all. He says he really loves RIU, but just can't sit back...... etc. etc.

TLD has never had anything but respect for FDDs growing. he told me so himself a few times. 

Hopefully he will have more time for me and the kids now though. Im not on here very much. I probably wouldn't have even got on tonight if he wasn't so upset....


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## DWR (Jan 17, 2010)

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww i got 3 infractions but i think the mods realized i was in the right  

 Tld, what the fuck u banned, shame ... wanted to see some more bud porn.

see you soon, or never again.. dunno if i was banned i wouldnt bother with this site anymore  tell your girl to hit me up in skype ffs ! 

damn it !


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## wonderblunder (Jan 17, 2010)

Won't be the same around here......... This is ridiculous.......


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## fdd2blk (Jan 17, 2010)

closed due to drama.


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