# Bubble cloners - how long?



## karmeron (Jul 3, 2011)

How long on average does it take to get roots in a decent bubble cloner?

I have 2 built and running at the moment
- 4.7 gals tap water(water is ph8.2 and 100ppm .7conv from tap)
- plenty of air, 2x 12" airstones in each cloner with its own 400 litre per hour pump, loads of bubbles
- 2 drops superthrive
- few drops ph down (phosphorus based) to bring ph to about 5.8-6.3
- aquarium heaters in each keeping water @ 73-75F 
- air temps @ 73-75F, [email protected] 50-65%
- tips of stem are submerged about 1/2 inch and I let it drop to about 1/2inch below them so bubbles are popping and keeping stem wet at all times
- cloner was light proof afaik, i spent hours making sure it was by filling any pinhole light leaks.
- cloner and all equipment were cleaned with light bleach and rinsed a lot before use, so it was clean and the blade i used for taking clones was cleaned with iso-alcohol also.
- I only top up the cloner with plain water and ph to required level

When I took the clones and cut from mother plant with a very sharp blade (did the angled cut for more surface area), i scraped the top layer at the bottom of stem (as many guides state to do), dipped in rooting gel and straight into cloner. about 10% of them drooped for a few hours and then were fine. 

I have cloned the strain before in root riot cubes in a propagator and they roots started showing in about 9days (same mother plant as current batch). But it has been 4 days now and no sign of rooting at all (i know its early days though). Leaves are perky/ no yellowing/ no drooping

However I tried before in a bubble cloner with the same strain and within 2 weeks there were no roots and only about 40% of plants had the lumps on the stem where roots form (i didnt have an aquarium heater at the time and water temps were real low, so i put it down to that). Some people say they get roots in like 4-6 days, some say up to 3 weeks. why do mine seem to take ages (or not happen at all)? What are some other factors that can affect it? The clones seem to stay healthy and no sign of mold/blackening/air embolisms etc, its as if the clones are thriving but without roots. Anyone any suggestions (+rep given)?


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## HghFlyrJD1 (Jul 4, 2011)

I use a DIY cloner too and at about 7-10 days i have roots.14-21 days you should be done with that batch.7-10 to see roots usually.PH set to 5.8 water temps about 75-78 with tank heater with Cfls above it.


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## Ebb n Flo (Jul 4, 2011)

another good thing to remember is this...
after taking the cut, immediately dip the stem of your cutting into water as to make sure there is no air bubble inside the stem itself. doesnt sound like you are having this problem but its a good thing to remember. 7-10 days as HghFlyr said....


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## karmeron (Jul 4, 2011)

Ebb n Flo said:


> another good thing to remember is this...
> after taking the cut, immediately dip the stem of your cutting into water as to make sure there is no air bubble inside the stem itself. doesnt sound like you are having this problem but its a good thing to remember. 7-10 days as HghFlyr said....


How can you tell if there is a problem with an air bubble?
Also will roots just "appear" one day or do you see the progress slowly? Still no sign of anything


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## stumps (Jul 4, 2011)

I've had them root in as little as 3 days and up to 4 weeks. you'll see little nubs start then they take off. I've found if you can keep the rez temp around 80 they do better. With my first diy cloner. I was thinking I could clone sticks it was working so well. Then I couldn't get anything to work in it. I figured out my temps had dropped about 5 deg and every thing stopped working.


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## karmeron (Jul 4, 2011)

stumps said:


> I've had them root in as little as 3 days and up to 4 weeks. you'll see little nubs start then they take off. I've found if you can keep the rez temp around 80 they do better. With my first diy cloner. I was thinking I could clone sticks it was working so well. Then I couldn't get anything to work in it. I figured out my temps had dropped about 5 deg and every thing stopped working.


You reckon 80 is better? Does it not "cook" the clones? hmmm... could be something to try


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## karmeron (Jul 4, 2011)

I just checked the temps there, its @ 74.5F, I turned the aquarium heaters up a bit.


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## karmeron (Jul 4, 2011)

Water is @ 78-80F now, also my light schedule is 24/0, I was told this is best for cloning. Could that slow root production down?


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## grizlbr (Jul 4, 2011)

You got dark covered so must be nutrients? Tomatoes are breed dependent: determinant very slow and indeterminate very fast rooters. Not tagging everything but rooting time lets me know which mother it came from. I have 3 different cut the same day a photo what am idea?


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## karmeron (Jul 4, 2011)

grizlbr said:


> You got dark covered so must be nutrients? Tomatoes are breed dependent: determinant very slow and indeterminate very fast rooters. Not tagging everything but rooting time lets me know which mother it came from. I have 3 different cut the same day a photo what am idea?


Im sorry I cant understand some of the post. when you say "must be nutrients", do you mean I need to add some as I only have a few drops of superthrive as any form of nutrient, the ppms of the solution is only around 100ppm @.7


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## stumps (Jul 4, 2011)

I use two 4' 40w tube flour's about 2" of the tops of the clones and run 24/0 fact is clones don't need much light. I use them more for heat. 80 is great for starting roots. if you stay in a bubbler type system the rez temps need to go down to 65-70 after roots start. I use tap water and a little super thrive. I have all so used cloning powder and jell's but don't need them when the bubble cloner is right on.


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## karmeron (Jul 4, 2011)

I use a 125w blue cfl about 6" from tops. So all in all there should be no problems with my setup as it is? I cant see why I can clone quicker in root riot cubes from this mother than in the bubble cloner


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## Dizzle Frost (Jul 4, 2011)

setup that works best for me is
1 40watt blue CFL , straight water @78 degrees...clones split up the middle 1/16" and dipped on ROOTS gels
i get roots starting in 4 days , fully rooted by 7-10 days...have never lost a cut yet


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## stumps (Jul 4, 2011)

I can't claim 100% but I have had batch's go 100% other not so well. keep track of what you do when it works try to repeat it.


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## Dizzle Frost (Jul 4, 2011)

stumps said:


> I can't claim 100% but I have had batch's go 100% other not so well. keep track of what you do when it works try to repeat it.


 i shloud rephrase that..ive never lost a clone in the bubbler yet...ive lost many of cuts in peat and soil lol


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## pazuzu420 (Jul 5, 2011)

I run clonex in my cloner with no dippin in rooting hormone had roots in 7-10 days. After the numbs form around day 5 or 6 then they really take of after that like a little explosion of roots. I noticed in my first design I wasn't getting even coverage and some of the cuts were not doing as well as the other so I changed the plumbing around a bit and got better all around coverage. Ofcourse I use a low pressure aeroponic cloner but still the same premise, I even put the heads at the top of tote pointing down instead of at the bottom of the tote pointing up. I NEVER have a leak and use no weatherstripping ect.


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## karmeron (Jul 6, 2011)

7 days and still nothing happening, what am I doing wrong ?


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## Dizzle Frost (Jul 6, 2011)

karmeron said:


> 7 days and still nothing happening, what am I doing wrong ?


 your temps may be off a lil.....my brothers temps were a lil low so he wasnt getting a good turn around...he added a heat mat and hes never lost one since


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## karmeron (Jul 6, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> your temps may be off a lil.....my brothers temps were a lil low so he wasnt getting a good turn around...he added a heat mat and hes never lost one since


I have an aquarium heater in the cloners set around 75-80


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## stumps (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't use a dome but I do give them a quick mist 3 or 4 times a day. Give them some time. When they start, they go fast. you have good bubbles? how many air stones or what ever do you have? Is the lid of your cloner wet. "inside" trying to hit all the bases.


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## stumps (Jul 6, 2011)

View attachment 1678734View attachment 1678735View attachment 1678736 my last set up. Didn't work as well as my first one. I know I had heat issues in my rez.


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## watchhowIdoit (Jul 6, 2011)

I have gotten the best results just using straight distilled water. 7-10days average. Only good use for distilled water I have found when it comes to growing.


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## karmeron (Jul 6, 2011)

stumps said:


> I don't use a dome but I do give them a quick mist 3 or 4 times a day. Give them some time. When they start, they go fast. you have good bubbles? how many air stones or what ever do you have? Is the lid of your cloner wet. "inside" trying to hit all the bases.


2x 12" air stones in each cloner. The lid is dripping wet inside. it is a container with 3.7 gals water in it and a 106gal/hour dual outlet air pump. Ive been told not to mist them as this feeds them and doesnt force them to gow roots to get food, there is a lot of conflicting info out there. The leaves on the clones look fine, just the clones not producing roots


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## Jesushasdreads (Jul 6, 2011)

i get roots in 7 to 12 days with my bubble cloner....i use a shop light with 2 t12 flouro tubes 1 red 1 blue ph balanced tap water 6.0 one aquafuse and rootech cloning gel. i have taken clones from outdoor plants and brought them back, drooped and wilted and not lost a single one! 

i leave the water level a bit lower, and never really add water unless my ph is too low, then i take out water and add only tap water (no ph at all) to bring ph back between 5.5-6.5 the room they are in is easily 100+ degrees in the daytime, back to around 70-80 over night. water in my cloner is easily 80+ degrees at any given time.....probably has been over 100

24/7 light cycle, i adjust ph every day and transplant when growth tip resumes growth.

 my last batch of clones around day 7-8 some still to take root......i've also had success with grodan grow cubes, but would not reccomend this method....starter plugs are more difficult to an inexperienced grower. bubbleponics is your key to cloning success


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## karmeron (Jul 6, 2011)

Jesushasdreads said:


> i get roots in 7 to 12 days with my bubble cloner....i use a shop light with 2 t12 flouro tubes 1 red 1 blue ph balanced tap water 6.0 one aquafuse and rootech cloning gel. i have taken clones from outdoor plants and brought them back, drooped and wilted and not lost a single one!
> 
> i leave the water level a bit lower, and never really add water unless my ph is too low, then i take out water and add only tap water (no ph at all) to bring ph back between 5.5-6.5 the room they are in is easily 100+ degrees in the daytime, back to around 70-80 over night. water in my cloner is easily 80+ degrees at any given time.....probably has been over 100
> 
> ...


thats pretty much what ive been doing except the 100+ air temps and 80+ water temps. Also I only check ph about every 3 days as there is very little fluctuation, I checked it today it was 6.2, i adjusted it to 5.8 with 2 drops ph down.


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## stumps (Jul 6, 2011)

I clone in 7.2 tap water. works fine.


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## karmeron (Jul 6, 2011)

stumps said:


> I clone in 7.2 tap water. works fine.



From reading around it seems the water isnt that important as some people get great results in non-ph'd water, some get great results when ph'd to 5.5-6.5, so im pretty sure the water i have is ok, cant seem to figure out what is slowing/stopping the root formation on my clones


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## DrtyBngWtr (Jul 6, 2011)

search for my bubble cloner 15 day roots... I get roots in 7 days max... they get cut, dipped in some rootech gel, put n a neoprene sleeve and dropped n a 2 inch net cup... my water is just inside the bottom of the cups. my water has 1/4 strength HN 3 part line. water is ph'd 5.5 to 6.0. no heater or anything. sometimes the water is 60F sometimes its upwords of 80F. They are normally stubbled in about 3 days... simply drop the water level to just below the cups and let the bubbles keep them jut wet enough they pop roots to search for more water!


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## karmeron (Jul 6, 2011)

DrtyBngWtr said:


> search for my bubble cloner 15 day roots... I get roots in 7 days max... they get cut, dipped in some rootech gel, put n a neoprene sleeve and dropped n a 2 inch net cup... my water is just inside the bottom of the cups. my water has 1/4 strength HN 3 part line. water is ph'd 5.5 to 6.0. no heater or anything. sometimes the water is 60F sometimes its upwords of 80F. They are normally stubbled in about 3 days... simply drop the water level to just below the cups and let the bubbles keep them jut wet enough they pop roots to search for more water!


Well at the moment im letting the water level drop, they are slightly submerged at the moment, in 1-2 days the water will be 1/2-1 inch below the bottom of the stem, however in my last run a few months ago, this also did nothing.


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## Ferredoxin (Jul 6, 2011)

I use a DIY aerocloner, and I usually get roots in 5-10 days with tapwater. I dont bubble the water however....I have 1/2" PVC in the shape of an 'H' fitted to a submersible pump with cheapo 360 degree 1/4" spray barbs spaced evenly throughout. I cant remember a time that I actually lost a cutting. I take extras, and usually throw them all away...lol. 100% success is the norm for me.

Using cloning gel, etc... in an aero/bubbler is not really necessary...it gets washed off right away. I find the most important part of the cutting process is to shave off very thin layers of material from the area I want roots to protrude from. This does the same thing as rooting hormone, which serves to soften the exterior layer of plant material so that roots (generated from the cambium) can break thru.


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## karmeron (Jul 6, 2011)

Ferredoxin said:


> I use a DIY aerocloner, and I usually get roots in 5-10 days with tapwater. I dont bubble the water however....I have 1/2" PVC in the shape of an 'H' fitted to a submersible pump with cheapo 360 degree 1/4" spray barbs spaced evenly throughout. I cant remember a time that I actually lost a cutting. I take extras, and usually throw them all away...lol. 100% success is the norm for me.
> 
> Using cloning gel, etc... in an aero/bubbler is not really necessary...it gets washed off right away. I find the most important part of the cutting process is to shave off very thin layers of material from the area I want roots to protrude from. This does the same thing as rooting hormone, which serves to soften the exterior layer of plant material so that roots (generated from the cambium) can break thru.



I did shave off the top layer on the bottom 1/2-1 inch of each clone before putting it in the cloner. Next time I wont use any clonex gel, but will it actually cause any problems if it goes into the cloner?


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## DrtyBngWtr (Jul 8, 2011)

karmeron said:


> I did shave off the top layer on the bottom 1/2-1 inch of each clone before putting it in the cloner. Next time I wont use any clonex gel, but will it actually cause any problems if it goes into the cloner?


Rooting hormone only helps... The rootech gel I use is thick enough and no it doesn't wash off instantly. If your not shooting roots try backing off your lights! When your plants are in a hydro system of any sorts your plants will thrive normally. the only problem problem is seedlings and cuttings are supposed to be rooting and not growing... If your plants are still nice and perky just try dropping the lumens your throwing at them. it may be that the particular light you are using is just to intense... seriously if you have healthy clones after a week try throwing them in darkness over night...


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## karmeron (Jul 8, 2011)

DrtyBngWtr said:


> Rooting hormone only helps... The rootech gel I use is thick enough and no it doesn't wash off instantly. If your not shooting roots try backing off your lights! When your plants are in a hydro system of any sorts your plants will thrive normally. the only problem problem is seedlings and cuttings are supposed to be rooting and not growing... If your plants are still nice and perky just try dropping the lumens your throwing at them. it may be that the particular light you are using is just to intense... seriously if you have healthy clones after a week try throwing them in darkness over night...


I highered the light another foot. it is only a 125w equivalent cfl, so its not that bright. but i'll give it a shot.


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## karmeron (Jul 9, 2011)

ok its the 11th day since I started it, in one of the cloners im seeing about 30% of the clones with small white root nubs so something is happening there. In the other about 5% have bumps on the stem(not white ones). Strange that 1 cloner is doing better than the other and they are pretty much identical setups the ph/ppm and temps are the same. the funny thing is the cloner that is doing better has the lesser flow rate air pump


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## fatality (Jul 9, 2011)

i get 100% success. I use a 6.5 quart storage container. i used a holesaw and cut out 14 sites on top. i bought a 2 outlet 30-40 gallon aquarium pump and it has 4 6" airstones hooked to it. i also have an aquarium heater in there, it stays 78f. one guy said distilled water, SHAME ON YOU.... go out and buy a case of aquafina (PURIFIED WATER) and use it. i almost think you might need a bigger airpump and more bubblestones. i dip my cuts in clonex right before i pop them in the cloner, 7 days almost like clockwork and i have 14 plants, always. 24/7 2foot floro FTW! i would post a pic of mine but the attachment manager is screwy for me ATM


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## karmeron (Jul 9, 2011)

fatality said:


> i get 100% success. I use a 6.5 quart storage container. i used a holesaw and cut out 14 sites on top. i bought a 2 outlet 30-40 gallon aquarium pump and it has 4 6" airstones hooked to it. i also have an aquarium heater in there, it stays 78f. one guy said distilled water, SHAME ON YOU.... go out and buy a case of aquafina (PURIFIED WATER) and use it. i almost think you might need a bigger airpump and more bubblestones. i dip my cuts in clonex right before i pop them in the cloner, 7 days almost like clockwork and i have 14 plants, always. 24/7 2foot floro FTW! i would post a pic of mine but the attachment manager is screwy for me ATM


There is plenty of bubbles though and the whole bottom of the lid is soaked and all cuttings are dripping so I think the air pump can handle it as the cloner with the least powerful air pump is the one that is rooting faster, ive 2x 12" air stones in each cloner,


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## fatality (Jul 9, 2011)

if i was you would put a couple splitters on your line and throw in a few more airstones to allow more bubbles in spots that currently do not have many, more bubbles=better


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## fatality (Jul 9, 2011)

could you post a pic please??? with the lid off ?


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## karmeron (Jul 9, 2011)

fatality said:


> could you post a pic please??? with the lid off ?


I literally dont have a camera and my phone camera is total shit you wouldnt be able to see anything clearly 

I have another air pump here that is a 120w air pump with 12 outlets, but Im afraid if i use it in such small containers it would literally tear any growth on the stems as I use it for 6x 10 gallon dwc containers and it gives great bubbles on all of those, but i think it would be too powerful for the cloners.


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## karmeron (Jul 9, 2011)

Ive heard some people saying you should change the water every week in a bubble cloner and some say you dont need to change the water at all until they get roots. Should I be thinking about changing the water?


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## karmeron (Jul 10, 2011)

just had a look there, still LOTS (about 70%) of clones have nothing happening  so much for bubble cloning being faster than using grow cubes  I rooted this strain from same mother in root riot cubes in about 9 days last time i tried with 90% success rate


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## karmeron (Jul 22, 2011)

Ok so after 24 days in cloner, most have about 2-3in roots and 100% success rate in the bubble cloner (ready to transplant). BUT clones put in root riots and heated propagator - 13days and some have about 1in roots out of the bottom of the cube. So for me it looks like the bubble cloner takes at least the same time as root riot cubes  I wonder is it just the strain I am cloning - next generation S.C Afghani kush???? Do some strains just not like bubble cloners and prefer cubes?


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