# Introducing the CC Hydro-Organic Small Water Culture System



## closet.cult (Dec 18, 2007)

O.K. folks, the new dawn is upon us. I have discovered a new growing method. I will describe it to you and show you the steps or phases 
required to achieve it.

This grow method I will call, very immodestly: The CC Hydro-Organic Small Water Culture.

This is my variation of a new type of hybrid growing method called Hydro-Organic. The basic idea is that research shows that the TOP 1/3 of 
ROOTS are specialized for uptake of NUTRIENTS (think: Rain Water). While the BOTTOM 2/3 is specialized for plain water uptake (think: Tap Root).

Therefore, if you can confine the top 1/3 of roots to a container of organic soil and ONLY FEED NUTRIENTS UP TOP, then the bottom 2/3 of roots 
are free to hang in a hydroponic system containing SIMPLE PLAIN WATER BELOW!

This is the best of both worlds! The soil is organic meaning great taste and the hydroponic system feeding water & oxygen to the bottom roots 
NEVER NEEDS TO BE PH'd! Just top up with Hydrogen Peroxide when the water level falls. It will add oxygenated water and kill any bacteria.

The system I read about was being used with ebb & flow but any hydroponic system can be converted to hydro-organic.

Here's how it works:

Phase I - Grow your seedling/clone in a small container. It won't need to be big because we are going to intentionally grow these until they are 
root bound. A plant grown in the ground will get very deep roots. We want the roots to wrap around the container enough that 1/3 of the roots 
of the adult plant are trapped in the small upper container.

I grew about 20 seedlings to start with. Here they are, three weeks old, heading toward root bound (I assume that's why they're small for their
age):







While they are growing the roots I want, I begin their LST training. I have a low space so I train these bitches hard.

















Finally, when they begin to show signs of root bound, (yellowing and then brown spots of the BOTTOM, OLDEST leaves) it is time to move to: 
Phase II - Transfer to hydroponics. There are a couple ways of doing this. I pulled out the plants, partially cut the bottoms off my small containers, added a layer of rockwool to the bottom and repotted the plants in the same container.

The idea is allow the now freed roots to grow thru the rockwool into your hydroponics, but you will need a barrier that will prevent your nutrient
solution from dripping thru the soil into your PLAIN WATER RESEVIOR. Accordingly, you will also need to pay attention to how much nutrients you
feed your plants so you do not soak it so thoroughly that it drips thru the rockwool. 

I am feeding only a couple of splashes of nutrients every day to prevent dripping, but still have a constant nutrient supply. It keeps the soil moist 
with nutrients but not soaking. And you do not have to bother with letting it dry out because the plant is getting all the oxygen it needs thru the 
hydro system below!

I have decided to give each of my plants its own reservoir to prevent root entangling problems when I sex them. That's why I am calling this a 
Small Water Culture. I will be in veg for only 2 more weeks. I have yet to learn how much the roots will grow during flowering. But I believe I will 
be able to trim the roots as I LST the plants.











I got the plastic containers for $1.50 each at The Container Store. The final step was to protect the roots from light with black plastic that I can 
remove to check root development.







So, there it is: the CC Hydro-Organic Small Water Culture system. I hope I can answer any questions you might have. I will try to find the web 
page that I learned about hydro-organic from so you can see an example of ebb & flow. Its the same idea: A small, organic soil rootball, above 
rockwool that does not touch the water, with roots growing down & exposed, above an ebb & flow tray, with black plastic covering the roots 
from the light. The ebb & flow flows over thr exposed roots, not the rockwool.

To me, this is the perfect system. All the benefits of organic soil combined with the growth capabilities of hydroponics but without the PH mess. 

I will be posting more pics later as this grow advances in my grow journal here: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/35890-white-widow-stealth-hps.html


Peace


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## cheesypeace (Dec 18, 2007)

Man that is so frigging complex it sounds sick though! I am sure it has benefits once you get it into full swing with higher amounts of organics ferts... I know thaqt for me i usually make a hydro fertilizer @ 1000 ppm and have that in a juice jug and use it to top up my bubble buckets every day because the water level lowers and pm drops to 300-400. So once I top all the reservoirs up the ppm in all the buckets is about 550-650 and then the plants drink and use aboujt 200-300 ppms a day of fertilizer AND MAN are they ever a nice dark green and growth is like a thick bush all around. =]

But I try to keep in mind of the average ppm level and i try to raise it by 50 every few days


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## closet.cult (Dec 18, 2007)

sounds cool. 

but i was looking to an alternative to having to test my water for PH and nutrient ppm. the advantage to hydro-organic is that the only testing involved is the organic nutrients ph. i make mine about 6.0. feed once a day, or not. the plants are still getting water and oxygen thru the hydro system. so, its a redundancy system, to boot.


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## MrIntricate (Dec 18, 2007)

Got any pics?


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## closet.cult (Dec 18, 2007)

MrIntricate said:


> Got any pics?


huh?  There are some in the first post of this thread.


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## bwinn27 (Dec 18, 2007)

i love the avatar MrIntricate. And the setup i like it i like it a lot


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## closet.cult (Dec 18, 2007)

bwinn27 said:


> i love the avatar MrIntricate. And the setup i like it i like it a lot


word up to that pic. and thanks.


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## BMWEATER (Dec 18, 2007)

sick setup


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## closet.cult (Dec 18, 2007)

thanks. we need to spread the word for those of us who like hydro growth results but dont want to to mess with ph and ppm.


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## papajock (Dec 18, 2007)

I like this alot. One thing. Do you think you will have problems with the roots in the small water containers? Not much room in there for a good sized roots.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 18, 2007)

lumberjack posted this some time back. Now I'll have to study this, when I get back from vacation. VV


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## potroast (Dec 19, 2007)

OK, so it sounds like you have a pot of dirt, and you are feeding it every day?
And you call that hydro-organic? 

I think you would be using the soil as a hydro medium, and the plants would not do very much with the dirt.

And if you use seedlings, you will have problems, that system is designed for spread-out roots, not a tap root.

Good luck with it, and make some adjustments on the fly, we want to hear how it works out.

HTH


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## closet.cult (Dec 19, 2007)

papajock said:


> I like this alot. One thing. Do you think you will have problems with the roots in the small water containers? Not much room in there for a good sized roots.


well, skunk recently had a whole thread about creating large plants from small root systems. And her created 1+ ounzes per plant! My containers are only a bit smaller then his AND I will allow the tap root to stretch, albiet trimmed, into a hydroponics chamber. I believe the root mass will be sufficent.


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## closet.cult (Dec 19, 2007)

potroast said:


> OK, so it sounds like you have a pot of dirt, and you are feeding it every day?
> And you call that hydro-organic?
> 
> I think you would be using the soil as a hydro medium, and the plants would not do very much with the dirt.
> ...


Pot, the soil above is fully organic and houses the mass of 1/3 of the roots. if i utilize the small root system that skunk already proved is enough for a large harvest, the small root ball in soil will support all the nutrients i need. then, the bottom 2/3 roots are allowed grow into a hydrophonics container below with PLAIN WATER ONLY. 

this is the definition of the hybrid, hydro-organic system of growing. if the tap roots sat in a nutrient solution below, it would be a hydro system. there are no organic hydrophonic nutrients.

p.s.- the container below can be of any size for any system of roots you desire. I intend to trim them, as required for small containers. any questions?


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## closet.cult (Dec 19, 2007)

Here is the online article I read introducing the idea of Hydro-Organics for aan ebb & flow system. Enjoy.

Organic Hydroponics


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## panhead (Jan 31, 2008)

This a pretty interesting topic/grow method for me,ive been researching this method for a few weeks now,infact it lead me to this site.

I'll be watching your results,please keep this thread updated.


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## Tom Bombodil (Aug 16, 2008)

Love the ideas, dude. I've been thinking of a hybrid DWC/Drip method. I'll post some pics when I get it built, but here's the idea:

I've had alot of success in the past using DWC with no water pumps, just an air pump. THen I talked to people who had tons of success using DWC with water pumps to aerate the water. So I'm thinking my typical 30-gal tote, 8 sites for clones, with an air pump leading to the resevoir. Additionally, a small submersible pump would pump the water through one of those 8-port manifolds and into the inner root zone of each plant.

To scale the system up, there will be three totes side-by-side, all connected near the bottom with a thru-hull 1 1/4" hose. THe tote on the farthest end will have a float valve connected to 1/4" water tubing, in order to keep the system topped off at all times (when I'm not around to babysit).

What you all think?


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## diggitydank420 (Aug 17, 2008)

Maybe I should try this. I have (3) 3 gallon rubbermaid DWC tubs and will be adding a fourth soon. Gotta love modular hydro!


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## Dela (Aug 17, 2008)

this methd sounds crazy, do we have any idea how it went?


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## WildHoneyPie (Aug 17, 2008)

wouldnt the nutrient water being fed in the top run down to the jars bringing dirt with it? you would have to drain the jars after ever nute watering so the ph doesnt go crazy.


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## Mr. Maryjane (Aug 18, 2008)

if you hook up a wick system to the soil, I think this could be an amazing way to grow. because the wicks would keep the soil moist but not dripping(right?), and if regular water is in the bottom you wouldn't have to worry about salts building up(right?) so all you'd have to do is top off the water every once in a while.(right?)


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## NorCalGrower (Aug 18, 2008)

Mr. Maryjane said:


> if you hook up a wick system to the soil, I think this could be an amazing way to grow. because the wicks would keep the soil moist but not dripping(right?), and if regular water is in the bottom you wouldn't have to worry about salts building up(right?) so all you'd have to do is top off the water every once in a while.(right?)


A wick system would eliminate the HYDRO in hydro-organic. This is a really interesting topic and i'm glad i'm on board from the begining to see how this one plays out. My question is how are you going to stop the roots from outgrowing that lower container? And also, i must have missed it, but what lights are you running?


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## NeoAnarchist (Aug 18, 2008)

ya i agree with NorCal, how are u gonna keep the roots from outgrowing the small container? and how does soil work as a medium in a hydro system? does the water just feed the plants with moisture, and u just add nutrients to the soil, but wouldnt that drip into the water, causing the water ph to be off? what ph would u even use, hydro or soil?


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## gimley (Aug 18, 2008)

CC- I have an LST question for you since you are a Jedi of the arts: Once you got your plants trained and switched to flower did you keep LST'ing them to get that final shape and height, or did the plants have that profile and then just fill out in flower. I ask because I am in a small set up like yours and have had recent height issues because I underestimated vertical growth during flowering.


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## flabbyone (Oct 23, 2008)

My friend has been using those cat litter square pails that come with some brands of cat litter. Some of them are about the same size as the waterfarm buckets without the inside bucket.
He has had problems with water log on the bottom half of the bucket. What he did was to put a 1/4" hardware cloth in at about the top 1/3 of the bucket, then added some coco fibers, some lava rock, more fibers, potting soil mix he uses. He put a stone in the bottom with air pump. He waters as he usually would water his soil grow leaving the water in the bottom for the roots to grow into. About 3 or 4" from the bottom, he put a drain hole so the water would not get any deeper. 
I guess in some ways, it is the same system. I am going to show this to him and see what he thinks. I don't think he thought about the plain water in the bottom. He just let his nutrients build up until they reached the drain hole. He waters every so often with ferts and other wise, plain water, just like he does with soil.
I didn't know that there was a name for it!


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## cassino420 (Nov 18, 2008)

Sounds like an intresting idea....Hope you keep us updated with pics, and comments.


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## LegalizeCannabisHemp (Mar 7, 2009)

what ever happened with this grow??


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## PoeEttic (Mar 8, 2009)

I wanna know how this turned out...BUMP BUMP BUMP


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## PoeEttic (Mar 10, 2009)

PoeEttic said:


> I wanna know how this turned out...BUMP BUMP BUMP


maybe the plants died?...that would suck


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## Cow Tea (Jan 31, 2010)

bump. what happened to the pics?


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## NeoAnarchist (Feb 10, 2010)

fareal, where are the pics?


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