# Sea-of-Green: Grams per inch thread



## Soulkipper (Sep 22, 2014)

Let's put some figures together and gear this thread towards maximizing yield per area available.
1. Veg time / height / node count
2. Flower finishing height / weight per capita
3. Analysis of the results to determine the best quotient for growing a short stack of plants!

.........................

To Be Continued...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 22, 2014)

Soulkipper said:


> Let's put some figures together and gear this thread towards maximizing yield per area available.
> 1. Veg time / height / node count
> 2. Flower finishing height / weight per capita
> 3. Analysis of the results to determine the best quotient for growing a short stack of plants!
> ...


I have an experiment going that will attempt to provide information on exactly this.


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## PetFlora (Sep 22, 2014)

2 important items

quality of nutes/ grow medium
quality of lights

followed by room temps and RH

The definer is umoles/m^/sec which most lights fail miserably at


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 22, 2014)

PetFlora said:


> 2 important items
> 
> quality of nutes/ grow medium
> quality of lights
> ...


It's only going to be as good as the weakest link so you have to take every aspect into account.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 22, 2014)

PetFlora said:


> 2 important items
> 
> quality of nutes/ grow medium
> quality of lights
> ...


What are your thoughts on this analysis:
Photosynthetic response of Cannabis sativa L. to variations in photosynthetic photon flux densities, temperature and CO2 conditions:
http://home.olemiss.edu/~suman/PhysiologyandMol.Biol.2008.pdf

Among other things it states:
"...the maximum rate of photosynthesis
(PN max) was observed at 30 oC and under 1500 µmol m-2s-1 PPFD."

Optimal lumen/sq. ft. (after converting µmol to lux to lumen) is 11,427 lumen/square foot
400w CMH is 38,400 lumen/sq. ft @ 1 ft. 
400w CMH is 17,100 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.5 ft.
400w CMH is 12,500 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.75 ft. (most plants are around this distance.)
400w CMH is 11,700 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.80 ft. (Here's as close to optimal as it gets. Many plants are here.)
400w CMH is 10,400 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.92 sq. ft (distance to the back side of the corner plants.)

Thoughts?


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## PetFlora (Sep 22, 2014)

Scanning the 411, it seems sound

I do not use CO2 but am a small grower. My plants get ample CO2 from my visits

It does cost $$$ to get 1200-1500 umoles across an entire canopy

I will be getting 3 more Solar Spec 260s (LEDs) to cover a 4 x 4 tent quite evenly

CMH is a great choice


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## hyroot (Sep 22, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> What are your thoughts on this analysis:
> Photosynthetic response of Cannabis sativa L. to variations in photosynthetic photon flux densities, temperature and CO2 conditions:
> http://home.olemiss.edu/~suman/PhysiologyandMol.Biol.2008.pdf
> 
> ...



Lumens mean absolutely nothing to plant growth. Lighting for plants is measured by PAR (µmole/s) and CRI

grab one of these 

Apogee Instruments


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## grievous bodily harm (Sep 22, 2014)

maximum yield per m3 in a short growing area ( less than 6ft high) = sea of green growing ( lots of single cola plants)
maximum yield per m3 in a tall but confined growing space = vertical grow ( lots of single cola plants stacked on shelves)
maximum yield per m3 in a large grow area ( warehouse/ full room grow) = large plants ( around 4 per light with a decent veg)

this is my opinion, based purely on my own experience. 

vertical grows done right will far out yield any horizontal grow. large scale grows should be kept as simple and foolproof as possible so i choose to run less plants, especially if i have dedicated veg area, makes life so much easier.


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## PetFlora (Sep 22, 2014)

Sea of green, from my understanding, is less than 3 ft tall, but tightly packed


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## Soulkipper (Sep 23, 2014)

So what are some average sizes/yields for these 3ft seas of green?


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## Soulkipper (Sep 23, 2014)

and how many nodes do these need before going into 12/12?


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## grievous bodily harm (Sep 23, 2014)

it is purely strain dependant. i have flipped plants at 5" tall with no nodes, just a stick with a leaf set on the top, these are generally high yielding strains from the skunk family. other varieties can grow very little in flower so need that boost in veg before being flipped.

ideally you should have grown the strain a couple of times to get to learn how it behaves. i currently grow my plants quite big but in the past i have grown up to 20 per 600w light, whilst i do prefer the large yields i get these days i do find that when you grow smaller plants you will end up with more quality buds overall as nearly all buds will be getting direct light and will be a main cola.


so the short answer to your question is: there is no specific way to guarantee the results you will get based on theory, you have to just do it and see for yourself. the more knowledge you have on a strain the more you can manipulate it to do what it is that YOU want.


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## Soulkipper (Sep 24, 2014)

that was a heavily bull shitted post. add figures to it -- each strain matters.


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## grievous bodily harm (Sep 24, 2014)

your attitude is all wrong. if you want people to offer honest and helpful advice you are going about it in a fucked up way.

maybe take a little trip to noob central and ask there but i'm sure there isn't going to be many people offering you help if you keep talking shit like that.


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## Mad Hamish (Sep 24, 2014)

The aim in SoG is a zip per plant. Going straight to flower from clone, NO veg time. The high numbers come from continuously cropping, keeping enough plants in rotation at all times. The lack of veg time is part of what makes a kicking SoG more efficient than most other methods. No matter what you are going to need to dial it in per strain. Thickness of stalks at cloning determines amount of roots and how fast they can form. This in turn affects vigor, and yield. Choosing a type that naturally grows only one huge cola is te way to go. Bushy types take a lot of finangling to dial in, you will find that some do better stripped of all but the top node, some with three, etc. It is all about your choice on genetics and ow you manage the phemotype. For example if you are going to grow an Affy cut back on N to promote bud a as opposed to huge leaves. Etc etc etc. Too many variables to make mention of. Good luck with your quest.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 24, 2014)

Mad Hamish said:


> The aim in SoG is a zip per plant. Going straight to flower from clone, NO veg time. The high numbers come from continuously cropping, keeping enough plants in rotation at all times. The lack of veg time is part of what makes a kicking SoG more efficient than most other methods. No matter what you are going to need to dial it in per strain. Thickness of stalks at cloning determines amount of roots and how fast they can form. This in turn affects vigor, and yield. Choosing a type that naturally grows only one huge cola is te way to go. Bushy types take a lot of finangling to dial in, you will find that some do better stripped of all but the top node, some with three, etc. It is all about your choice on genetics and ow you manage the phemotype. For example if you are going to grow an Affy cut back on N to promote bud a as opposed to huge leaves. Etc etc etc. Too many variables to make mention of. Good luck with your quest.


I think this is the best answer. There are so many ways to achieve a desired result. Large plants waste space and/or time.


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## hyroot (Sep 24, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> I think this is the best answer. There are so many ways to achieve a desired result. Large plants waste space and/or time.



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
if you have a perpetual garden no time is wasted. .Big plants also come into play with legal plant limits. The more roots the more fruits. You will get more off a 10 gal with bigger buds vs 4 3gals in the same space.


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## purplehays1 (Sep 24, 2014)

hyroot said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
> if you have a perpetual garden no time is wasted. .Big plants also come into play with legal plant limits. The more roots the more fruits. You will get more off a 10 gal with bigger buds vs 4 3gals in the same space.


i have a tiny tent, 2x2 and i find that a single plant with a long veg is the best way to maximize it. I am sure i could achieve similar results with 6 plants in a SOG in the 2x2 space, but i have a 6 plant limit and have a veg/flower setup.


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## Mad Hamish (Sep 24, 2014)

hyroot said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
> if you have a perpetual garden no time is wasted. .Big plants also come into play with legal plant limits. The more roots the more fruits. You will get more off a 10 gal with bigger buds vs 4 3gals in the same space.


If you are limited for plants an SoG style rig is not the answer no. Then I would just plan VERY well, veg each to six weeks and over, then screen them up. But as far as yield over time goes... traditional straight from clone is the way, this is not a debate it has been proven over and over here on RIU in practical runs mate. To scream nOOOOO is a bit retarded hy. No offence. More roots equal more shoots sure, but the issue here is dry weight. I have seehow you run, it is very far removed from SoG. Perpetual, yes. SoG, no. It is a particular style, it does not mean any old way of generating a perpetual crop. Until you run an actual SoG, please reserve comments on the method.


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## hyroot (Sep 24, 2014)

Mad Hamish said:


> If you are limited for plants an SoG style rig is not the answer no. Then I would just plan VERY well, veg each to six weeks and over, then screen them up. But as far as yield over time goes... traditional straight from clone is the way, this is not a debate it has been proven over and over here on RIU in practical runs mate. To scream nOOOOO is a bit retarded hy. No offence. More roots equal more shoots sure, but the issue here is dry weight. I have seehow you run, it is very far removed from SoG. Perpetual, yes. SoG, no. It is a particular style, it does not mean any old way of generating a perpetual crop. Until you run an actual SoG, please reserve comments on the method.


I was replying to ignorant post of large plants are waste of time and space. That you obviously didn't read. More shoots equals more buds. Thats a given..

I've done sog for 3 batches 3 years ago. Yield was horrible in comparison. I got 6 zips of 12 plants. I probably didn't have the right strains. That was with 2 weeks veg time. I have never seen anyone pull more than 10 grams per plant with zero veg time. Every sog thread on here that claims huge yields is incomplete and never shows the end result.


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## Mad Hamish (Sep 24, 2014)

Lets settle the matter like big boys. Here is my one tent in transition to SoG from bigger plants. In three weeks we measure the floor space on the big ones and get the average on the dry bud. Four weeks later we weigh in the SoG and compare. Same strains so apples and apples. Chosen mother is Salvation by Gage.


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## MOON SHINER (Sep 26, 2014)

Pulling up a chair.


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## Soulkipper (Sep 30, 2014)

don't forget to count nodes before flower, height, time in veg, etc...
time isn't necessarily the most accurate measurement so nodes and whatnot may be a better theory.
amt of water.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 30, 2014)

Mad Hamish said:


> Lets settle the matter like big boys. Here is my one tent in transition to SoG from bigger plants. In three weeks we measure the floor space on the big ones and get the average on the dry bud. Four weeks later we weigh in the SoG and compare. Same strains so apples and apples. Chosen mother is Salvation by Gage.


Would love it if you would post updates for us along the way.


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## Wolf pack (Sep 30, 2014)

Sog do not mean no veg time....it's just lots of plants.

9 1gal pots,13oz,under 315watt LEC


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## Soulkipper (Sep 30, 2014)

where would these end up if put into 12/12 right now?

they are all way different.
6 plants
1 with 4 nodes
1 with hardly 1 node
1 with 3 nodes
3 with 2 nodes in very different stages as you can see.
*0-3wks apart.

how fast can u turn out the most successful yield is sorta the question of this topic.


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## Wolf pack (Sep 30, 2014)

In them cups,?
What light?

But I will say for a good female,around 10-15 grams..give or take.


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## Soulkipper (Oct 1, 2014)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> What are your thoughts on this analysis:
> Photosynthetic response of Cannabis sativa L. to variations in photosynthetic photon flux densities, temperature and CO2 conditions:
> http://home.olemiss.edu/~suman/PhysiologyandMol.Biol.2008.pdf
> 
> ...



sounds like the worst thing you can do is use high watt lightbulbs or single bulbs.
Something similar to Christmas lights fixed with grow LED's would seem to be the best or near best option.


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## Soulkipper (Oct 1, 2014)

Wolf pack said:


> Sog do not mean no veg time....it's just lots of plants.
> 
> 9 1gal pots,13oz,under 315watt LEC


that's not enough yield.
in Hobbes grow guide he uses a crop circle of bud.. 12" 5gal buckets * pi to get 36"^2 or about 1^2m and he pulls off around 1200-1600grams per plant. that's probably the way to go.
but in the mean time you have to clone and whatnot so you'll have a few extra plants that need flowered or thrown away.. so what is the best option for bud node count/height/leafs/etc.. to guarantee the best short stack of buds?


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## n!n.budz (Oct 2, 2014)

grievous bodily harm said:


> your attitude is all wrong. if you want people to offer honest and helpful advice you are going about it in a fucked up way.
> 
> maybe take a little trip to noob central and ask there but i'm sure there isn't going to be many people offering you help if you keep talking shit like that.


STANDARD


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## Doer (Oct 2, 2014)

Interesting thread, and I wonder if the OP is in the same boat as many of us? Over planning.

You can plan the perfect grow but can you grow the perfect grow? The answer is no. There is no such thing. We will all agree on this. The perfect grow is on a mountainside in Tibet.  But, seriously it is about only a few things.
- Root space 
- clean water
- PAR watts
- serious feeding techniques (not good nutes. Nutes are a ganja myth rippoff to me)

For me, the main thing is how well do I get to that bursting bounty of a naturally healthy, happy and vigorously growing plant in Veg, That makes the real difference, for me, in final yield and quality.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Vertical Growing, however.


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## Soulkipper (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm finding it's taking about 3 1/2 days from the sight of a new node to the start of the next one. This about average?

What about average time after you top them?


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## n!n.budz (Oct 3, 2014)

Doer said:


> Interesting thread, and I wonder if the OP is in the same boat as many of us? Over planning.
> 
> You can plan the perfect grow but can you grow the perfect grow? The answer is no. There is no such thing. We will all agree on this. The perfect grow is on a mountainside in Tibet.  But, seriously it is about only a few things.
> - Root space
> ...


if i could find how to like comments id lkke this haha ..


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## Doer (Oct 3, 2014)

n!n.budz said:


> if i could find how to like comments id lkke this haha ..


It's OK. You have to make posts and be here for a time, to get that privilege. You will get there.

IAC< thanks.


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## Doer (Oct 3, 2014)

Soulkipper said:


> I'm finding it's taking about 3 1/2 days from the sight of a new node to the start of the next one. This about average?
> 
> What about average time after you top them?


I don't top. It just adds time. If I hit the sweet spot with feeding technique, then I should get a 24" tall plant minimum in 8 weeks with the Sativa dominates I usually plant. My limit here is root space and PAR watts, in a 32x32 tent for veg.

Roots grow faster than I had ever imagined in planning, so my next set up will be with more space, for 6 gal buckets instead of 2.5 gal.


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## Soulkipper (Oct 3, 2014)

6 gallons is so much extra dirt though.. make a flower box.


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## Doer (Oct 3, 2014)

Soulkipper said:


> 6 gallons is so much extra dirt though.. make a flower box.


I won't use soil
Coir and hydroton


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## sky rocket (Oct 3, 2014)

hyroot said:


> I was replying to ignorant post of large plants are waste of time and space. That you obviously didn't read. More shoots equals more buds. Thats a given..
> 
> I've done sog for 3 batches 3 years ago. Yield was horrible in comparison. I got 6 zips of 12 plants. I probably didn't have the right strains. That was with 2 weeks veg time. I have never seen anyone pull more than 10 grams per plant with zero veg time. Every sog thread on here that claims huge yields is incomplete and never shows the end result.


I will run a true sog (6-8" rooted clones with no veg time). I will have or should have 100-120 rooted clones under 2x600 magnum xxl hoods with c02, drain to waste hempy style. Strain of choice will be reserva Prada tangie. I'll keep y'all posted. Aiming for 10-13 grams per plant.....in my dream world if I could avg 13 grams per plant x 120 plants that would be1.3 gpw.....now back to the real world if I could do 10 grams per plant I would be ecstatic.....lol


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## Mad Hamish (Oct 4, 2014)

I totally forgot about this thread whoooops... I will get some pics soon, I need to for a test run I am busy with... SoG style girls are about half way, flowered out to a total seven nodes. Had to chop some very excited branches they thout they were on trees cute... second run of the same type went in a week ago, legs shaven a bit more, introduced a Bubba to the rig too. All looking fantastic...


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## Mad Hamish (Oct 4, 2014)

I do have one pic, but this is the Dank Sinatra Remix, different type so can't make her part of the experiment. SoG, zero veg, flowered at 5 nodes, two nodes removed in week two flower, butt fluff buds. Plants total around 30cm height. Very dense buds. Going to be like a bat.


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## Ninjabowler (Oct 4, 2014)

Not much of a sea O greener but dont you get the best yields from hydro sog? Like flood and drain or nft? I had one oz per plant when i was doing sog dwc. Two weeks from dropping rooted clones into hydroton filled nets.


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## Mad Hamish (Oct 4, 2014)

Ninjabowler said:


> Not much of a sea O greener but dont you get the best yields from hydro sog? Like flood and drain or nft? I had one oz per plant when i was doing sog dwc. Two weeks from dropping rooted clones into hydroton filled nets.


On a first run in virgin soil, yes you definitely get much larger yields. But you also get a chemmy sauce of a product. Hydro is not an option. Those days are long gone. I run Living Organic Soil, and my SoG is in recycled LOS. First run will be a little weak on yields for sure. But this is a NO TILL system, which does yield just as well as hydro from second run onwards. We have technologies and techniques available to us as organic growers that hydro can never have, like live enzymes, ACT, SST, and bringing a plant to full genetic potential with no risk of genetic drift. Hydro is history... no bottles or synthetics needed... ever...


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## Soulkipper (Oct 4, 2014)

is a SoG always just one main stem.. no topping/cropping etc..?


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## josiahlee420dailyyy (Oct 6, 2014)

Mad Hamish said:


> On a first run in virgin soil, yes you definitely get much larger yields. But you also get a chemmy sauce of a product. Hydro is not an option. Those days are long gone. I run Living Organic Soil, and my SoG is in recycled LOS. First run will be a little weak on yields for sure. But this is a NO TILL system, which does yield just as well as hydro from second run onwards. We have technologies and techniques available to us as organic growers that hydro can never have, like live enzymes, ACT, SST, and bringing a plant to full genetic potential with no risk of genetic drift. Hydro is history... no bottles or synthetics needed... ever...


Sorry guys this isn't about a Sog. More so about what Mad Hamish said.

Yeah here in Colorado, no one uses hydro anymore. It's all organic soil with compost teas and "super soils". It's the little guys in the soil putting in the work. Nutes are a multi-million if not billion dollar industry. Marijuana has been growing in soil working with the micros for a long time...call it a symbiotic relationship. I've never seen a hydro setup produce a 6+ pound marijuana plant. Outdoor California grows in LOS produce the biggest plants that I've seen outside of natural "Landrace" strains grown in a natural LOS. I agree that a great "Supersoil" with the right micro life will out produce any other medium. As you said, you can't use these live enzymes in a hydro set up and I believe the plant will never reach it's full potential without the micro biological life in the soil breaking down the soil naturally. Plus these micros keep the bad fungi and molds away as well as break down the nutrients in the soil to a level that the plant has been working with for millions of years. Rain water with no major nutrient content has been producing the chrons for EVER! It's all about the soil. 

Although, don't just jump on a Subcool thread and start making "Supersoil". Especially if you do not have a good understanding of what is really going on. It's easy to make a "hot" soil, or an off balanced soil ( Ph too low or too high ), Even if you use someone's exact specs. Funny that it all comes full circle. First weed grew in soil, then man said here's a better way, and for a time it was good...Now most of the masters have returned to soil with a greater understanding of the ideal conditions. 

All of this is just food for thought.

The only bottle of stuff you might want to invest in is organic black strap molasses.


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## Soulkipper (Oct 8, 2014)

Figured out why FIM is FIM.. Definitely causes like 4-8 tops from one cut. 4 right at the site and the two immediately below it also look like tops, and two more that started where it was immediately topped like normal cuttings would happen. There might even be more by the looks of it.. can't get a good picture though.


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## JointOperation (Oct 10, 2014)

hyroot said:


> I was replying to ignorant post of large plants are waste of time and space. That you obviously didn't read. More shoots equals more buds. Thats a given..
> 
> I've done sog for 3 batches 3 years ago. Yield was horrible in comparison. I got 6 zips of 12 plants. I probably didn't have the right strains. That was with 2 weeks veg time. I have never seen anyone pull more than 10 grams per plant with zero veg time. Every sog thread on here that claims huge yields is incomplete and never shows the end result.



lol.. SOG was my best runs. not vert tho.. never tried a vert sog.. no reason too.. sog is a horizontal grow style lol.. but i had over 400 clones in 1 gallon grow bags.. and i got 2923 grams off 2 1000s.


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## hyroot (Oct 10, 2014)

JointOperation said:


> lol.. SOG was my best runs. not vert tho.. never tried a vert sog.. no reason too.. sog is a horizontal grow style lol.. but i had over 400 clones in 1 gallon grow bags.. and i got 2923 grams off 2 1000s.


2923 grams of 400 plants. That's 7.3 grams a plant. Which supports my post.



> I've never seen anyone pull more than 10 grams a plant with zero veg time .


No possible way 200 1 gallons can fit under a 1000 w. The most that will fit is 54 1 gallons.

I call shenanigans


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## JointOperation (Oct 11, 2014)

1 gallon square grow bags.. squeezed together.. in a 10x8 room with only 2000 watts. in a 60inch cooltube with a huge wing.. had the taller plants on the outside.. smallers underneath.. 2 clones per bag..

lol.. and look who chimes in.. we can all call bullshit.. anyone who has done it knows it can be done.

i might have over exagerated the number of clones.. wen u get that many in a room who counts.. but my yields were spot on to wat i said. almost 3000grams.


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## JointOperation (Oct 11, 2014)

i did a SOG.. my first few years into growing.. had to turn my 5x5 veg room into a cloning room for SOG. to get enough clones to fill the room to the brim.

at that time. i fucking rigged up a death trap.. lol.. but since then this has changed . alot.. i still use those shelving units.. but at this time.. i had 14 dome trays in that room.. 2 on each shelve on the right.. and 3 on the 2 bottom shelves on the right..

had it setup so there was an area for smaller clones.. then i moved each row down.. till the flower room was ready.. again. 

i did 1 year of SOG.. and it was way to much work for me to hit numbers i can hit if i SCROG or top the fuck out of my plants.


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## JointOperation (Oct 11, 2014)

and this is 1000w with 11 x 10.. had to take plants out of the room to WATER. not for the SOG. this is just showing. u can fit alot more then u believe UNDER A 1000w in a 5x5

and if this was for the SOG.. there would of been 2 clones per .. so . 220 plants could DEFF fit under 1000.. and the strains i was running were PERFECT FOR IT. i pretty much was doing a vertical scrog grow.. my canopy was a U around the 60inch cooltube..


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## skunkd0c (Oct 11, 2014)

sog will out yield any other grow method if done right, most of it is finding the right pheno
that grows fast and produces a large central cola while keeping itself short 

when plant count is not an issue, many smaller plants will grow faster , fill the space quicker
and require only a few days to 1 week veg time from clone, making the complete turnover quick too

folk who want to be more advanced can look at using multi story chambers using small led/T5s even 
this helps make up for the wasted vertical space that sog plants do not make use of

growing anything but the main cola is to some degree wasting space and time
when a plant is in the veg period its wasting time
if you have plenty of air circulation you can get away with the colas being 1 inch apart when they bloom
although PM is always a worry when plants are so tightly packed


peace


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## genuity (Oct 11, 2014)

JointOperation said:


> and this is 1000w with 11 x 10.. had to take plants out of the room to WATER. not for the SOG. this is just showing. u can fit alot more then u believe UNDER A 1000w in a 5x5
> 
> and if this was for the SOG.. there would of been 2 clones per .. so . 220 plants could DEFF fit under 1000.. and the strains i was running were PERFECT FOR IT. i pretty much was doing a vertical scrog grow.. my canopy was a U around the 60inch cooltube..


Love in that pic..


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## JointOperation (Oct 11, 2014)

those were all transplanted that day.. and when i sog. i do veg. 7-20 days.. depending on the strain. but most of the strains i had at that time . 4 were tall. 4 short.. it worked out perfectly.. i lollipopped.. and staked them as close together as i possibly could.. had to install 3 extra wall fans.. to prevent any PM or mold.. also had to water with a LADDER because there was no floor space at all. so i had to put the ladder in the room.. stand on that and use my wand to get every plant . also made a homemade watering thing to attach to my hose so i could reach plants at the corners..

it was great yielding.. and i was about to be upgrading to 4 1000s.. and then my partner fucked me . so i ended up starting over about 3 years in.. and only saved 4 strains.. and the seeds i made and the seeds i bought that i hadnt popped..

but. all in all. it was a ton of work.. if i ever SOG again.. ill do 6inch coco cubes.. and put in a table so i can drain to waste without having any issues. lol and making it SUPER EASY TO run..

also.. when i did this.. i had it in a cooltube like i said.. took off the factory reflector.. and put a reflector in a V shape kind and had these plants literally A U Canopy around it. i am looking for more photos .. but this is like 5 years ago.. and i have about 50 gigs of 12megapixel photos .. its retarded.. when i find. ill post.

ive tried every method over the years.. also including light movers.. and flip flops.. the only thing i have yet to try is the light spinners.... which is something i was just looking into .. upgrading to gavitas ,. went threw almost every nute too.. biocanna was the best tastingand super easy i ph the nutes tho . they say u dont need to but i had way better yields with phing the solution before watering.. .. dyna was the best yielding/easiest.. advanced was close behind all of them.. 

now they have humbolts and a few other companies i have yet to try.. 

i didnt like gh line.. made my entire harvest smell and taste wierd.. like every strain.. had this hint of something.. that made them all smell and taste the same kind of.. it was wierd..

bio canna.. did amazing things to make them all express very different traits and made them all taste amazingly different..

umm.. sog days were fun.. but when ur taking 1000s of clones.. and only keeping the super vigorous and best looking.. to flower.. and transplanting them before flower.. and then havin to stake them after the stretch.. and lollipop.. and then have to move them into there final resting place with the smallers in the middle.. and the tallers around them like Stadium seating but by plant size.. instead of having different levels or shelves.. and watering.. taking 30-60 minutes to make sure u hit every plant twice because there sucking up the water daily.. lol.. it was a super busy time.. and then harvesting.. and having to then start over. cloning. and transplanting into cups. then 1 gals.. then into flower. and so on.. and in between that.. while your not working in the room.. your trimming and selling your buds.. 

and believe it or not.. i was working 50-60 hours a week.. and maintaining my rooms.


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## genuity (Oct 11, 2014)

JointOperation said:


> those were all transplanted that day.. and when i sog. i do veg. 7-20 days.. depending on the strain. but most of the strains i had at that time . 4 were tall. 4 short.. it worked out perfectly.. i lollipopped.. and staked them as close together as i possibly could.. had to install 3 extra wall fans.. to prevent any PM or mold.. also had to water with a LADDER because there was no floor space at all. so i had to put the ladder in the room.. stand on that and use my wand to get every plant . also made a homemade watering thing to attach to my hose so i could reach plants at the corners..
> 
> it was great yielding.. and i was about to be upgrading to 4 1000s.. and then my partner fucked me . so i ended up starting over about 3 years in.. and only saved 4 strains.. and the seeds i made and the seeds i bought that i hadnt popped..
> 
> but. all in all. it was a ton of work.. if i ever SOG again.. ill do 6inch coco cubes.. and put in a table so i can drain to waste without having any issues. lol and making it SUPER EASY TO run..


Tables/trays are a must,that's all I'm waiting on now.
Thanks for this post.


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## Mad Hamish (Oct 11, 2014)

JointOperation said:


> those were all transplanted that day.. and when i sog. i do veg. 7-20 days.. depending on the strain. but most of the strains i had at that time . 4 were tall. 4 short.. it worked out perfectly.. i lollipopped.. and staked them as close together as i possibly could.. had to install 3 extra wall fans.. to prevent any PM or mold.. also had to water with a LADDER because there was no floor space at all. so i had to put the ladder in the room.. stand on that and use my wand to get every plant . also made a homemade watering thing to attach to my hose so i could reach plants at the corners..
> 
> it was great yielding.. and i was about to be upgrading to 4 1000s.. and then my partner fucked me . so i ended up starting over about 3 years in.. and only saved 4 strains.. and the seeds i made and the seeds i bought that i hadnt popped..
> 
> ...


lol... I have some interesting watering tools... best one is a little saucepan tied to a stick. Reaches just right nd I can measure exact amounts. But this became an issue for me when i had to move to tents, never mind SoG lol. I agree it is a lot of work, but my days of commercial size runs are pretty much forgotten it is just a hobbu to me, so my rig is very small and i actually like the extra work, keeps me from growing complacent. That and me and my wife are heavy users so hopefully I get some variety dialled in also, some Indies and satties like you did. Dialling them in one at a time seems most wize though. All my girls are lifted off te ground pretty far, I can kinda clean runoff spots with my one broomy mop thing but I would love a good drainage solution for tents. I used to do ebb and flow, so in my bigger rooms I could just use the old tables and trays. I might need to build a little man cave soon.


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## Soulkipper (Nov 30, 2014)

Yo show some pics from day 1 flower with the finished pic.


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## JointOperation (Dec 3, 2014)

I gotta go searching .. all my photos are on dvds.. after a buddy got busted.. and they used his laptop against him.. I decided with the help of another forum member on a different site.... to start encrypting my photos on to discs.. as to be able to destroy the disc and get rid of the evidence.. 

but give me some time.. ill go threw the 10 dual layer discs .. photos all in 4000x3000.. since day 1.. but I don't like to take lots of photos.. don't really havea s much time anymore.. back when I started I took lots of pics.. but I need to go threw em. and dump all of the ones that have shitty focus.. and shit like that.. its tons of work . lol lots of time.


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## ayr0n (Dec 3, 2014)

Soulkipper said:


> that was a heavily bull shitted post. add figures to it -- each strain matters.


Well I was really digging the thread at first then I hit this post from OP...after he got what appeared to be sound advice...My new agenda is to ensure everybody stops helping this dude. No more info.

Please note that 6 people liked @grievous bodily harm 's post and no one liked your shitty response to it.

Also please note that


grievous bodily harm said:


> your attitude is all wrong.


and that


grievous bodily harm said:


> you are going about it in a fucked up way.


I'll be watching. Don't fucking help this guy or I'll eat your soul. [email protected]

EDIT:
Oh I have something else I'd like to add...


Soulkipper said:


> is a SoG always just one main stem.. no topping/cropping etc..?


^ This is the guy telling people their advice is bullshit. Lol. Just sayin...Lotta good info in here looking past the "BS".


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## Soulkipper (Dec 3, 2014)

you cant even read... thats like a filler post just to bump this thread.. mods, just close and delete this thread.. it's a pity party that keeps repeating itself


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## ayr0n (Dec 3, 2014)

Soulkipper said:


> you cant even read... thats like a filler post just to bump this thread.. mods, just close and delete this thread.. it's a pity party that keeps repeating itself


Can someone help me make out what this dude is saying - I can't even read it


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## Lord Kanti (Apr 16, 2015)

I searched for "grams per inch" and ended up here. I'll post my thoughts and questions, and if the a mod wants to move this, so be it. 

I never really thought of my grow as "sea of green" but I suppose it could be considered so. I'm growing in a 4'^3 area (maybe taller) 21 plants laid out in a grid, different strains, different sizes, all starting from 4 individual 6-8" cut clones. They have been under a 24/7 photo vegetation period for the past six months. I plan on flipping the largest, non-mother plants this month or soon after. 

My concern is that after 6 months the plants are (only) 14" from the first node to the tip. I have been worried for quite some time, but then realized, especially after reading this thread, that a lot of growers only grow a single cola. I pinch off the newest growth at the tip when I feel necessary and the plant now has apx. 16 even sized colas. 

If the average SoG starts with an 8" single cola plant when starting flower, then each of my larger plants are an equivalent of 28 smaller plants. Give or take. 

I have to go right now, but will be back, so since I do not have time right this second to continue on with the rest of my thoughts and questions, I figure I ought to ask if a 14" bush of Blue Dream is about right after 6 months? I've been told that the quality is always above and beyond, but sometimes I wish the quantity were as well...


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 16, 2015)

Lord Kanti said:


> I searched for "grams per inch" and ended up here. I'll post my thoughts and questions, and if the a mod wants to move this, so be it.
> 
> I never really thought of my grow as "sea of green" but I suppose it could be considered so. I'm growing in a 4'^3 area (maybe taller) 21 plants laid out in a grid, different strains, different sizes, all starting from 4 individual 6-8" cut clones. They have been under a 24/7 photo vegetation period for the past six months. I plan on flipping the largest, non-mother plants this month or soon after.
> 
> ...


Pictures?


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## weedenhanced (Apr 17, 2015)

Lord Kanti said:


> I searched for "grams per inch" and ended up here. I'll post my thoughts and questions, and if the a mod wants to move this, so be it.
> 
> I never really thought of my grow as "sea of green" but I suppose it could be considered so. I'm growing in a 4'^3 area (maybe taller) 21 plants laid out in a grid, different strains, different sizes, all starting from 4 individual 6-8" cut clones. They have been under a 24/7 photo vegetation period for the past six months. I plan on flipping the largest, non-mother plants this month or soon after.
> 
> ...


U wanna do a scrog


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## Mad Hamish (Apr 17, 2015)

Holy crap I totally forgot this thread. Damn. My bad.


Lord Kanti said:


> I searched for "grams per inch" and ended up here. I'll post my thoughts and questions, and if the a mod wants to move this, so be it.
> 
> I never really thought of my grow as "sea of green" but I suppose it could be considered so. I'm growing in a 4'^3 area (maybe taller) 21 plants laid out in a grid, different strains, different sizes, all starting from 4 individual 6-8" cut clones. They have been under a 24/7 photo vegetation period for the past six months. I plan on flipping the largest, non-mother plants this month or soon after.
> 
> ...


Blue Dream is a heavy yielder far as I recall... difference between a lot of small plants and one big one is root mass, bud mass and root mass are directly proportionate, so those small single colas are a lot fatter than colas on a big bush. You can't calculate this according to shoots alone. Six months would grow me a bush with many, many branches and it will be six feet and over no jokes, mothers would be five feet high or what even with all that trimming... sounds a bit slow. Do you have a journal we can pop in by and have a look at your rig?


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## Lord Kanti (Apr 17, 2015)

Maybe tomorrow when the lights are off and you can actually see them  

I'm probably going to have to measure each branch. I started to earlier but gave up because of either the futility, or because I really had to go to the bathroom. 

I'm hoping to get an idea of grams of produce to inches of plant. I definitely don't want to be stuck with a 6 month veg cycle, as that's just too much of a time investment to 
lose if something goes wrong. 

I have just started a feeding regiment of Alaskan fish fertilizer. All but one plant seem to be thirsty nitrogen whores. I feed them ph 6.0 
tap water, aquaponic drain to waste (gotta refill my fish levels afterwards) and 
Also water where I grow microbial tea. I supplement the water with 10-10-10 and good old fashioned urea. 

Honestly, my roots seem like they could be way bigger. The soil mix seems to come colonized, but is there an inexpensive fungal additive that can really push those roots out? I'm growing in 5 gal fiber smart pots and I've cranked out 5' beauties from them before. Winter has come and gone and it still feels like I'm playing Game of Midgets.


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## Mad Hamish (Apr 17, 2015)

Lord Kanti said:


> Maybe tomorrow when the lights are off and you can actually see them
> 
> I'm probably going to have to measure each branch. I started to earlier but gave up because of either the futility, or because I really had to go to the bathroom.
> 
> ...


Well I know absolutely nothing about aquaponics... so I would be pretty lost on anything in your rig, I stick to old school bottle and additive free organics so anything I say will be a load of BS


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 17, 2015)

Lord Kanti said:


> I searched for "grams per inch" and ended up here. I'll post my thoughts and questions, and if the a mod wants to move this, so be it.
> 
> I never really thought of my grow as "sea of green" but I suppose it could be considered so. I'm growing in a 4'^3 area (maybe taller) 21 plants laid out in a grid, different strains, different sizes, all starting from 4 individual 6-8" cut clones. They have been under a 24/7 photo vegetation period for the past six months. I plan on flipping the largest, non-mother plants this month or soon after.
> 
> ...


6 months veg with blue dream? They should be rather huge plants by now. Are they lush green or pale almost yellow? Cold temperatures? Being blue dream though a 14" plant will still blow up in flowering. I'm doing a cross of blue dream and flowered a couple out at about 14-16" and now they're 3 foot tall trees.
Here is just one that I even trained so the canopy would spread out instead of just growing vertically. Without training she'd be nearly 4 and half feet tall. These are in dwc using GH three part.


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## Lord Kanti (Apr 17, 2015)

Temperatures were cold up until about a month or two ago, now it's pretty hot. I watered them in a bucket today and it seems that each plant is able to hold about a gallon of water after run off is accounted for. I'm thinking it might be possible they weren't getting enough, but I basically fed them whenever they got droopy and asked for it. Once in a while I'll flush the soil out as well. 

1 blue dream seems to be a good color, the other 3 larger gals are leaning into the yellow-green spectrum, even after upping the nitrogen a bit. Well shit....I was worried that I was using too much N...but at the ratio I was using it, (been playing it safe) The N would be lucky to register at a solid 1. 15oz 45-4.5-9 added to 5gal water. 15/640(45) 1-0.1-0.2, right? This was on top of 10-10-10 and whatever NPK is in my fish waste water. 

The other strains are greener, but do not have the same tightly packed node spacing as the blue dream. I'm not too worried about them, I'd just like them to be much bigger 

I also have some 2.5 month olds from seed. 1 Charlie Sheen, the rest are mystery seeds. Blackberry Kush, perhaps. I pinched the tops off, the split....I pinched them again 2-3 nodes later, and some of them got pissed off at me and now look like they're suffering from dwarfism. One is an absurd shade of green that it might as well be yellow, but only one. The rest are rather green..... I'll upload pics when I can, but fuck....

I also added about a cup of hydrogen peroxide to my 5gal cloner and the damn roots to the rose cutting I had in there turned reddish brown. Not slimy, but they were white yesterday. I pulled it and planted it in soil, so hopefully it grows. Everything up top looks fine, but the root mass definitely changed from white to red overnight. The water is also cloudy now, but I think that might also have to do with the rooting powder that gets knocked off the fresh stems. 

As far as the pic above goes, the plant structure looks similar, like a grid of heads evenly lined up like a bad haircut from Jersey  

I just watered at 5-1-1 today and saturated the soil. I only used the fish emulsion, no 10-10-10, but I did use some of my microbe brew water as the base for mixing the fish into. Now that I see that my previous additive was too weak I'll add it all together for the next watering. 16-11.1-11.2 ought to be in the next mix. 

I guess before I go on and ramble to myself for another page or so, I'll ask how long it usually takes to see plants green up and correct themselves after adequate nitrogen is added into their diet. 

My soil is a 50/50(ish) mix of organic potting mix and perlite. I didn't really add any compost, rock dust, or wood ash. I got it in my head to leave the soil bland and feed through watering to have more control over the plants, but I think for my next grow I'm going to try to use a 50/50 mix of compost and perlite. It seems that I have a lot of coffee to go through this summer :O


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## CCCmints (Apr 17, 2015)

Lord Kanti said:


> Temperatures were cold up until about a month or two ago, now it's pretty hot. I watered them in a bucket today and it seems that each plant is able to hold about a gallon of water after run off is accounted for. I'm thinking it might be possible they weren't getting enough, but I basically fed them whenever they got droopy and asked for it. Once in a while I'll flush the soil out as well.
> 
> 1 blue dream seems to be a good color, the other 3 larger gals are leaning into the yellow-green spectrum, even after upping the nitrogen a bit. Well shit....I was worried that I was using too much N...but at the ratio I was using it, (been playing it safe) The N would be lucky to register at a solid 1. 15oz 45-4.5-9 added to 5gal water. 15/640(45) 1-0.1-0.2, right? This was on top of 10-10-10 and whatever NPK is in my fish waste water.
> 
> ...


why are you vegging for so long?

here's my blue dream @ about 2.5 months...











i can't imagine how big they'd get if i vegged for another 3.5 months. i'm pretty positive the 5 gallon smart pots wouldn't cut it for a 6 month veg. how big are your plants in comparison to the pictures i've posted? i tied them down heavily throughout the grow and topped them yet they still end up being about as tall as you say your plants are. 

when are you planning to flower?


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## Lord Kanti (Apr 17, 2015)

Yeah, our plants, even the pots look spot on. I'm not entirely sure why my plants are so damn small, but I'm open to suggestion. I didn't pH my water my last grow, and that grew slow, but not nearly as slow as this one. I figured the corrected acidity would make things pop this time around, but no such luck. My last grow in the 5gal smart pots got me headband bushes 4-5' tall. Shit got weird at the end of summer and basically the whole crop failed. I let the buds brown on the stalks and used them for some epic tea brewing. I trimmed a few of the less shitty plants and let those lose to be smoked and I was told that they were most excellent. Apparently my shittiest crop was the best smoke they ever had.

I'd like to flip a few of the larger plants now. The only reason I let them carry on for so long is because of the slow growth. If they grew as fast as the ones above I'd have had nearly 3 crops by now :-O


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## Mad Hamish (Apr 18, 2015)

Lord Kanti said:


> Yeah, our plants, even the pots look spot on. I'm not entirely sure why my plants are so damn small, but I'm open to suggestion. I didn't pH my water my last grow, and that grew slow, but not nearly as slow as this one. I figured the corrected acidity would make things pop this time around, but no such luck. My last grow in the 5gal smart pots got me headband bushes 4-5' tall. Shit got weird at the end of summer and basically the whole crop failed. I let the buds brown on the stalks and used them for some epic tea brewing. I trimmed a few of the less shitty plants and let those lose to be smoked and I was told that they were most excellent. Apparently my shittiest crop was the best smoke they ever had.
> 
> I'd like to flip a few of the larger plants now. The only reason I let them carry on for so long is because of the slow growth. If they grew as fast as the ones above I'd have had nearly 3 crops by now :-O


Sounds like the problem is in your soil mix most of all IMO


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## CCCmints (Apr 18, 2015)

Lord Kanti said:


> Yeah, our plants, even the pots look spot on. I'm not entirely sure why my plants are so damn small, but I'm open to suggestion. I didn't pH my water my last grow, and that grew slow, but not nearly as slow as this one. I figured the corrected acidity would make things pop this time around, but no such luck. My last grow in the 5gal smart pots got me headband bushes 4-5' tall. Shit got weird at the end of summer and basically the whole crop failed. I let the buds brown on the stalks and used them for some epic tea brewing. I trimmed a few of the less shitty plants and let those lose to be smoked and I was told that they were most excellent. Apparently my shittiest crop was the best smoke they ever had.
> 
> I'd like to flip a few of the larger plants now. The only reason I let them carry on for so long is because of the slow growth. If they grew as fast as the ones above I'd have had nearly 3 crops by now :-O


my guess would be your plants have outgrown their pots. they very well could be rootbound after 6 months in 5 gallon pots. i would transplant to a bigger pot then flip to flower asap.


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## Mad Hamish (Apr 18, 2015)

CCCmints said:


> my guess would be your plants have outgrown their pots. they very well could be rootbound after 6 months in 5 gallon pots. i would transplant to a bigger pot then flip to flower asap.


I second this motion and am kicking my own ass for not thinking of the obvious. All the signs are there for root bound plants.


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## Lord Kanti (Apr 18, 2015)

I do have a couple 15gal pots at my disposal. If anything I can initiate a transplant and see what the roots are like. If dense, I'll swap pots, if not, I'll leave the plant alone to avoid stress and report back.


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## Mad Hamish (Apr 18, 2015)

Never anything wrong with an up can! 15 gal is pretty staunch that will grow some monsters


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 18, 2015)

Lord Kanti said:


> Temperatures were cold up until about a month or two ago, now it's pretty hot. I watered them in a bucket today and it seems that each plant is able to hold about a gallon of water after run off is accounted for. I'm thinking it might be possible they weren't getting enough, but I basically fed them whenever they got droopy and asked for it. Once in a while I'll flush the soil out as well.
> 
> 1 blue dream seems to be a good color, the other 3 larger gals are leaning into the yellow-green spectrum, even after upping the nitrogen a bit. Well shit....I was worried that I was using too much N...but at the ratio I was using it, (been playing it safe) The N would be lucky to register at a solid 1. 15oz 45-4.5-9 added to 5gal water. 15/640(45) 1-0.1-0.2, right? This was on top of 10-10-10 and whatever NPK is in my fish waste water.
> 
> ...


Nice. I hope they get going good for you now it's warming up. It might have just been the cold slowing them down.


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## panhead (Apr 18, 2015)

Soulkipper said:


> and how many nodes do these need before going into 12/12?


I start out with clones that have a minimum of 6 tightly packed nodes with 50 plants per 4x8 flood table , straight from clone to 12/12 & each plant yeilds between 2 & 3 zips under 3 600 hps per table .

Most indacs will perform about the same from my experience, one strain might yeild a qp more than another but its so small its of no account to me .


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## panhead (Apr 18, 2015)

hyroot said:


> I was replying to ignorant post of large plants are waste of time and space. That you obviously didn't read. More shoots equals more buds. Thats a given..
> 
> I've done sog for 3 batches 3 years ago. Yield was horrible in comparison. I got 6 zips of 12 plants. I probably didn't have the right strains. That was with 2 weeks veg time. I have never seen anyone pull more than 10 grams per plant with zero veg time. Every sog thread on here that claims huge yields is incomplete and never shows the end result.


There are 2 very different methods of sog , one is to cram as many clones per sq ft as possible using small clones which create a dense carpet , this method has small per plant harvest weights & relys on huge plant numbers , see the Gardengnome threads where he posts his Seemore Buds vids & gets huge harvests .

The other method is to use large clones with a good number of tightly packed nodes & zero side branching , this method requires less plants & space for air flow around the plant , per plant harvest weights can be as high as 4 zips per cola , i have hit over 3 zips on a single cola before but average out just over 2 zips per plant .

Sog isnt just about packing as many plants as possible with any clone with roots , clone selection is the key to massive harvests , take an 8 inch clone with 6 to 8 tightly packed nodes & no side branching & put it directly into 12/12 , then see whats possible with sog when that one clone nets you over 2 ounces .

Veg time works against you in sog , even a 2 week veg time will cause stretch & take away from harvest weights , go look at the Albfuct thread A Batch of clones in rockwool to see what type clones are used for over 2 zip per plant harvests .

I did the whole pic thing for years while learning how to do sog properly & should all still be visable in the Albfuct threads , a massive sog cola I grew is my avatar & it weighed well over 2 ounces , ive got pics of forests of buds in those threads .


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## Mad Hamish (Apr 18, 2015)

panhead said:


> There are 2 very different methods of sog , one is to cram as many clones per sq ft as possible using small clones which create a dense carpet , this method has small per plant harvest weights & relys on huge plant numbers , see the Gardengnome threads where he posts his Seemore Buds vids & gets huge harvests .
> 
> The other method is to use large clones with a good number of tightly packed nodes & zero side branching , this method requires less plants & space for air flow around the plant , per plant harvest weights can be as high as 4 zips per cola , i have hit over 3 zips on a single cola before but average out just over 2 zips per plant .
> 
> ...


Epic thread that I am amazed so many people miss totally. His threads rock.


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## panhead (Apr 18, 2015)

Mad Hamish said:


> Epic thread that I am amazed so many people miss totally. His threads rock.


Yes they do & Al is missed around here , not many people read the threads because it's quicker to just keep asking questions than read a very long informative thread .

Everything people need to know about monster harvest sog is contained within those threads , I've all ways been thankful that he took the time to teach me the proper way .


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## Mad Hamish (Apr 19, 2015)

panhead said:


> Yes they do & Al is missed around here , not many people read the threads because it's quicker to just keep asking questions than read a very long informative thread .
> 
> Everything people need to know about monster harvest sog is contained within those threads , I've all ways been thankful that he took the time to teach me the proper way .


Right ON, it makes all this arguing on threads like this ridiculous and absurd. I did his exact method, I still use my clone box, still root without a dome or anything schmancy. I got around 24 grams per bud with Chronic doing a BAD run with his methods, was my first go at ebb and flow. EDIT: switching to organic for flower present a few challenges though. You do need a teeny bit of time, three days or what, in the pot before hitting flower. Not as shock free a process as Al's


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## Lord Kanti (Apr 19, 2015)

Got a link to Al's process?


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## panhead (Apr 19, 2015)

Lord Kanti said:


> Got a link to Al's process?


Go to the hydroponics forum & his threads will be the 1st threads you see , they are sticky threads & never move from the top of the list of threads .

If you follow his methods & don't over crowd your flood table you will hit 2 ounces per plant.

His process is simple flood n drain with a few specifics , well rooted large clones is where you start , you allow no side branching & you do not veg , not even for a day , you put 24 net potted clones per 4x4 table & feed them , not much more to it than that except people all ways try to do variations which hammers their harvest .

You also need to learn how to train mother plants to produce large 6 to 8 node clones & use new mothers every few grows .

If you read his threads from start to finish & make no changes to the method you will pull a lb every 2 weeks from a 4x4 table .


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## Mad Hamish (Apr 20, 2015)

panhead said:


> Go to the hydroponics forum & his threads will be the 1st threads you see , they are sticky threads & never move from the top of the list of threads .
> 
> If you follow his methods & don't over crowd your flood table you will hit 2 ounces per plant.
> 
> ...


Getting the mums right is oh so important. Rather a few smaller mums than one very large one. Smaller mums are easy to get thicker shoots from than crowded big mommas... Not only SoG but any perpetual method the condition of the mother is of utmost importance. Yeah deviations from his method bring lower yields, but I am almost back there in organic been a few years work though... I like organic very much but i also like a solid pull


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## panhead (Apr 20, 2015)

Mad Hamish said:


> Getting the mums right is oh so important. Rather a few smaller mums than one very large one. Smaller mums are easy to get thicker shoots from than crowded big mommas... Not only SoG but any perpetual method the condition of the mother is of utmost importance. Yeah deviations from his method bring lower yields, but I am almost back there in organic been a few years work though... I like organic very much but i also like a solid pull


It took me a couple years to get everything down & to stop making mistakes , now ive ran the program so much its like clockwork , every 4x8 table brings down 6 to 6 1/4 lbs every 7.5 weeks .

I did change a few things out of need , i couldnt get that Flytocel shit he uses to work , every flood that shit floats out of the net pots & fucks the pump up , he used panty hose to keep that shit in the pot , i ended up using chunks of sponge for the medium in the net pot .


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## mrhaze420 (Apr 20, 2015)

Who thinks vegging for as long as possible if u have the time is the best way to go?


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## Mad Hamish (Apr 22, 2015)

mrhaze420 said:


> Who thinks vegging for as long as possible if u have the time is the best way to go?


Outdoor growers.


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