# Are there ANY pure Sativas on the market?



## tstick (Mar 25, 2022)

Seems like everything is a hybrid. I can't remember the last time I saw a pure Sativa on the commercial recreational market. Can you?  From the business side of things, I can understand that it's just not feasible to grow plants that might take 20 weeks to ripen. And I'm not sure the buying public is sophisticated enough, _at this time,_ to really care. I'm sure there must be some private growers, who have all the time in the world, and are growing a few of those rarities.

It would be cool if there was even ONE commercial business, who specialized in pure Sativas and Indicas instead of ultra-complex hybrids. I'm not sure if I even completely understand how these 70/30, 60/40, 80/20 type percentages are even calculated. The lineage of most modern hybrids goes so deep and there are so many different phenotypes within each of those hybrids...and then _how _each one is grown, etc....I'm not sure that anyone can say what the differences really are.

In my experience, most of the recreational weed is not ripe....The trichomes almost always look completely clear. So, for the most part, whatever qualities the plants _could_ express in terms of effect and flavor, aren't even there. If something is supposed to be Sativa-leaning, people will describe the high s "up" or "energetic", but it's really just that the flowers aren't ripe and people aren't getting much of any effect -other than psychological.

If I ever get my hands on some real, super-long-flowering, landrace Sativa seeds, then I'd like to try growing one or two -_to complete ripeness_. But, outside of growing them, myself, I don't think I will ever see a real Sativa flower on the shelves. I wonder how much more would have to be charged for something that takes twice as long to grow..._twice as much_?


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## Budzbuddha (Mar 25, 2022)

Was gonna point you to SOA ( seeds of Africa ) - that’s where I got Malawi Gold but seems most out of stock. 
‘That sucker pushed me 16 + weeks.


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## phunky76 (Mar 25, 2022)

places to look, there are more just look for landrace sativas









Sativa-type Archives - The Real Seed Company - Landrace Seeds


Sativa-type landrace strain Cannabis seeds from the heartlands of Cannabis biodiversity in Southeast Asia, tropical India, tropical Africa, and the Himalaya



therealseedcompany.com









IndianLandraceExchange – Landrace Genetics







www.indianlandraceexchange.com












THE LANDRACE TEAM


PURE CANNABIS GENETICS




www.tltseeds.com






https://www.worldofseeds.com/eng/







Sativa Archives - SOA Seedbank







seedsofafricastore.com


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## xtsho (Mar 25, 2022)

ACE Seeds has lots of sativas.


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## xtsho (Mar 25, 2022)

Budzbuddha said:


> Was gonna point you to SOA ( seeds of Africa ) - that’s where I got Malawi Gold but seems most out of stock.
> ‘That sucker pushed me 16 + weeks.


I had a pack of Malawi Gold from them. I tried to grow it a few years ago and not a single one sprouted which disappointed me. I know it wasn't me as it was every seed in the pack and I never have issues growing from seed. I'm not blaming SOA either as it was more than likely either poor storage on the part of the seed bank or the seeds were old as it's not one of the popular hype strains everyone buys so they had probably been sitting around awhile. But I do have some ACE Malawi going right now and I'm looking forward to that. I really like the way ACE puts dates on their seed packs so you know how old they are. Some of the stuff that doesn't sell could have been sitting around for a decade and you'd never know since there's no date on the packaging.


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## xtsho (Mar 25, 2022)

tstick said:


> Seems like everything is a hybrid. I can't remember the last time I saw a pure Sativa on the commercial recreational market. Can you?  From the business side of things, I can understand that it's just not feasible to grow plants that might take 20 weeks to ripen. And I'm not sure the buying public is sophisticated enough, _at this time,_ to really care. I'm sure there must be some private growers, who have all the time in the world, and are growing a few of those rarities.
> 
> It would be cool if there was even ONE commercial business, who specialized in pure Sativas and Indicas instead of ultra-complex hybrids. I'm not sure if I even completely understand how these 70/30, 60/40, 80/20 type percentages are even calculated. The lineage of most modern hybrids goes so deep and there are so many different phenotypes within each of those hybrids...and then _how _each one is grown, etc....I'm not sure that anyone can say what the differences really are.
> 
> ...


You really need to grow a long flowering sativa until it's done to appreciate one. The people growing hybrids that say to harvest early to get a sativa high don't know what they're talking about. An early harvested hybrid is nothing like a fully ripened sativa. But most have never even smoked one and just go by what they heard online so it's not really their fault. They're just misinformed. No early harvested hybrid is going to give you the same effect as a fully finished sativa. That whole harvest at this point for a head high and harvest at this point for a body high is just nonsense and I cringe whenever I see someone post that. 

Like I said in my previous post ACE has some really good sativas. RSC and TLT are great as well.


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## dank'd (Mar 25, 2022)

i don't think i could trust a company that sells indicas and sativas for similar prices

long flowering sativas should cost more


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## NanoGadget (Mar 25, 2022)

dank'd said:


> i don't think i could trust a company that sells indicas and sativas for similar prices
> 
> long flowering sativas should cost more


why?


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## xtsho (Mar 25, 2022)

dank'd said:


> i don't think i could trust a company that sells indicas and sativas for similar prices
> 
> long flowering sativas should cost more


Yeah why? 

If you're talking about ACE they're one of the most honest outfits out there. They put dates on their packaging. They have third party lab results for many of their strains on their website. They tell you the actual history of the the strain. They do actual breeding unlike others that are just making crosses of other people's work. They sell their seeds at a decent cost and don't rip people off by charging $150-$200 for a pack of 10 seeds. One of the breeders is readily available to answer any questions and gets back to you quickly. Nice guy as well. 

Some of the other outfits that were mentioned like RSC and TLT also offer both sativa and indica and are also some of the most trustworthy outfits in the business as well. 

As far as long flowering sativas costing more I don't see why. There is less demand so they should actually cost less. Most have no desire to spend 16-20 weeks flowering a plant and instead choose the latest hyped up polyhybrid that claims to finish in 6 weeks, has 32% THC, tastes like berries, is purple, has a cool name, and costs $20-$30 a seed. 


So what is the reason you don't trust them? Inquiring minds want to know.


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## dank'd (Mar 25, 2022)

just something i presumed after joining mr nice forums after buying a bunch of their indicas at auction

some of the pictures of the haze crosses and outback haze crosses there were totally wild looking, like nothing i have seen at typical breeder sites (aside from ace etc)

16+ week ripening and the plants looked alien. then i noticed all of the mr nice sativas are noticeably more expensive than their indicas

the cost to breed such long flowering space-taking plants will without question cost more to produce seeds

look at this plant someone posted of an outback haze cross. nuts


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## xtsho (Mar 25, 2022)

dank'd said:


> just something i presumed after joining mr nice forums after buying a bunch of their indicas at auction
> 
> some of the pictures of the haze crosses and outback haze crosses there were totally wild looking, like nothing i have seen at typical breeder sites (aside from ace etc)
> 
> ...


They just take longer to grow. I don't pay that much attention to what various breeders are doing so I wouldn't know what they charge. 

I grew this Oldtimers Haze in a 4x4 tent. Well it started outside and I brought it inside to finish. 20 weeks flowering. I had to get creative to fit it in the tent.


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## jimihendrix1 (Mar 25, 2022)

AKBeanBrains Kali MIst F4 Pre2000 stock.

Give Dave an Email, and ask for a complete seed list

[email protected]

Authentic Genetics Pure Haze from Mel Frank. Be prepared to grow out 10 females for a killer keeper. Generally 1 in 10 pure Haze are keepers. Best to start them on 12/12

Id start out with the Kali Mist F4.


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## dank'd (Mar 26, 2022)

yes but, a 16 week sativa does not produce 2 times the yield of an 8 week indica. the cost to keep the lights and climate control devices running, plus 8 extra weeks of water usage will end up costing more, not to mention the extra time/space costs and slower turnover

i can also say that as someone who only buys from the value menu at the ocs, it is almost impossible to find a 'sativa' at that price point that isn't terrible. always harsh and racy


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## phunky76 (Mar 26, 2022)

dank'd said:


> yes but, a 16 week sativa does not produce 2 times the yield of an 8 week indica. the cost to keep the lights and climate control devices running, plus 8 extra weeks of water usage will end up costing more, not to mention the extra time/space costs and slower turnover
> 
> i can also say that as someone who only buys from the value menu at the ocs, it is almost impossible to find a 'sativa' at that price point that isn't terrible. always harsh and racy


Yeah landrace sativas might be better off outside if possible


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## tstick (Mar 26, 2022)

Not where I live. The days and season are not long enough to get a Sativa close to finishing, here. 

Funny...In the 70's when I was starting out growing, all we had were Mexican Sativas. We just didn't know how to grow them very well. There weren't really any resources to go to to look up how to grow marijuana. You couldn't even go to the library to look up anything. You either guessed at it, or you were lucky and knew someone who knew more than yourself. So information came slowly. I think High Times Magazine was probably the only source for information on the subject. But, even having High Times Magazines around was dangerous back then. No one wanted to raise suspicion about growing.

Now, it seems second nature that almost everyone can get great results with just a bit of research, online. 

But, yeah, the only way to get a real ripe long flowering Sativa is to grow it yourself. No recreational store is going to have any that's ripe. They just have an "80/20 Sativa-dominant hybrid" which gives you an "up" high....yeah...bullshit.


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## curious2garden (Mar 26, 2022)

tstick said:


> Seems like everything is a hybrid. I can't remember the last time I saw a pure Sativa on the commercial recreational market. Can you?  From the business side of things, I can understand that it's just not feasible to grow plants that might take 20 weeks to ripen. And I'm not sure the buying public is sophisticated enough, _at this time,_ to really care. I'm sure there must be some private growers, who have all the time in the world, and are growing a few of those rarities.
> 
> It would be cool if there was even ONE commercial business, who specialized in pure Sativas and Indicas instead of ultra-complex hybrids. I'm not sure if I even completely understand how these 70/30, 60/40, 80/20 type percentages are even calculated. The lineage of most modern hybrids goes so deep and there are so many different phenotypes within each of those hybrids...and then _how _each one is grown, etc....I'm not sure that anyone can say what the differences really are.
> 
> ...


I bought a pack of these:








Original Haze 100% Colombian


ORIGINAL HAZE Regular Seeds I got Original Haze directly from Skunkman Sam IN 2012 and they are the original 3 way Colombian Haze that was first bred in 1969 in the Santa Cruz mountains by Sam's neighbor "G". Sam kept them through IBL breeding since the 70's to preserve the variety. Original...




agseedco.com





I haven't run them yet. I need another light. But they look damn close to the equatorial sativas I knew in the '70s. Ahh what I'd give to find some seeds from that old brick weed from the '70s. That clear ceilingless high. I miss that. My friend espaliered one in his back yard. It lasted for about 3 maybe 4 years until a frost finally killed it.


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## conor c (Mar 27, 2022)

Check out kwik seeds /real seeds or ace


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## amneziaHaze (Mar 27, 2022)

acapulco gold, durban poison those are the only 2 that come to my mind now. hazes are dominant but they are mixed a lot now days but they still have a lot more sativa high then indica....


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## rootforme (Mar 27, 2022)

Long flowering sativas should definitely cost more. 

There is more time, energy, cost involved in growing a long flowing sativa. Plus, products that have less demand usually sell for more. Demand brings prices down and there is much less demand for a long flowing sativa which makes it rare and makes it cost more money..


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## conor c (Mar 27, 2022)

Well if you after long flowering theres phenos in rsc manipuri for example that take 80 to 100 days at least to show sex if that aint pure sativa type idk what is regardless theres many pure sativas on the market from multiple sources its not that hard to find


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## austin98 (Mar 27, 2022)

rootforme said:


> Long flowering sativas should definitely cost more.
> 
> There is more time, energy, cost involved in growing a long flowing sativa. Plus, products that have less demand usually sell for more. Demand brings prices down and there is much less demand for a long flowing sativa which makes is rare and makes it more money..


makes sense to me. seems like a bigger investment to breed without the returns to justify it. am I missing something wattzup?


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## conor c (Mar 27, 2022)

austin98 said:


> makes sense to me. seems like a bigger investment to breed without the returns to justify it. am I missing something wattzup?


The market dont work like that people dont pay extra much for long flowering strains yeah it costs more energy nutes etc n more time to do but such is life and like life sometimes the game aint fair


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## rootforme (Mar 27, 2022)

austin98 said:


> makes sense to me. seems like a bigger investment to breed without the returns to justify it. am I missing something wattzup?


He's just a troll stuck on my d.


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## outside Dixie (Mar 27, 2022)

I grow sativa every year outdoor's there done late Sept. Durbin..100% sativa 5th gen.


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## amneziaHaze (Mar 27, 2022)

maybe he is not selling it. i would grow 100g in one year for my personal use instead of 300 why not.


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## rootforme (Mar 27, 2022)

conor c said:


> The market dont work like that people dont pay extra much for long flowering strains yeah it costs more energy nutes etc n more time to do but such is life and like life sometimes the game aint fair


If you're selling an indoor 20 week flowering sativa for the same price as an indoor 8 week indica then you're not a smart business person. If you're not factoring in the extra costs involved and adding those costs into the final price then you're not a smart business person. If the market isn't buying into the higher cost product and you keep growing it to sell for the same price as your 8 week indica then you're not a smart business person..


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## UncleRawkus (Mar 27, 2022)

I bought some for $100 a seed. Does that make me a smart consumer?


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## Billy the Mountain (Mar 27, 2022)

UncleRawkus said:


> I bought some for $100 a seed. Does that make me a smart consumer?


For most consumers/growers, $100 per seed wouldn't be a smart choice.

On the other hand it's your $100, fine by me.


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## outside Dixie (Mar 27, 2022)

100$ a seed is crazy high..That is why i grow outdoor's there is not much cost and way less time..And still get quality smoke. Durbin ( 9 to 13 ft tall ) Outdoor 20$ a seed 3 yrs to acclimate to here now is great for here low maintenance..


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## crimsonecho (Mar 27, 2022)

austin98 said:


> makes sense to me. seems like a bigger investment to breed without the returns to justify it. am I missing something wattzup?


sativas flower longer true but they dont need to go 16 weeks to produce seeds i harvested my cannalope haze s1 seeds (of which i have a 16+ weeker pheno) after 5 weeks and they are pretty much ripe. much like my indicas and hybrids. so i dont see where this extra investments are coming from


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## conor c (Mar 28, 2022)

rootforme said:


> If you're selling an indoor 20 week flowering sativa for the same price as an indoor 8 week indica then you're not a smart business person. If you're not factoring in the extra costs involved and adding those costs into the final price then you're not a smart business person. If the market isn't buying into the higher cost product and you keep growing it to sell for the same price as your 8 week indica then you're not a smart business person..


I dont sell shit i just love the plant mate and its just how the market is legal or otherwise good luck trying to change it cos its not to your liking you aint the first to try all i know is where im from and alot of places good weed sells as good weed it dont matter about flowering time your average person doesnt care nor even wanna know they just want what they like for the best price possible in all actuality like it or not


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## xtsho (Mar 28, 2022)

crimsonecho said:


> sativas flower longer true but they dont need to go 16 weeks to produce seeds i harvested my cannalope haze s1 seeds (of which i have a 16+ weeker pheno) after 5 weeks and they are pretty much ripe. much like my indicas and hybrids. so i dont see where this extra investments are coming from


You are 100% correct.

As soon as the plant show pistils you can start pollinating. The seeds may get buried in the bud but will be ready before the plant is finished flowering. The seeds don't take 16 weeks to finish.

Seems there are many that don't actually understand how easy it is to make seeds. I can't believe anyone would pay $100 for a seed. I never have and never will. That's just crazy. No strain is worth that. Not a single one.


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## austin98 (Mar 28, 2022)

crimsonecho said:


> sativas flower longer true but they dont need to go 16 weeks to produce seeds i harvested my cannalope haze s1 seeds (of which i have a 16+ weeker pheno) after 5 weeks and they are pretty much ripe. much like my indicas and hybrids. so i dont see where this extra investments are coming from


hm, but if you're breeding a strain to sell its seeds, wouldn't you want to see it out in order to identify the appropriate phenos and attempt to stabilize them? or is it less involved than I imagine?


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## crimsonecho (Mar 29, 2022)

austin98 said:


> hm, but if you're breeding a strain to sell its seeds, wouldn't you want to see it out in order to identify the appropriate phenos and attempt to stabilize them? or is it less involved than I imagine?


well most good breeders i assume already have the stable dank phenos they want to breed with. they have the cuts going already and as for a hybrid or something they can do huge sog runs once like with 1000-2000 plants and identify all that stuff with a single run so it really doesnt make much sense to sell those seeds 2x the price because they paid what 400-500 bucks more for electricity? i just dont see why the seed would cost more.

another point of view sativas grow taller and produce huge flowers. may not produce huge yields compared to a similar sized indica (as if there is such a thing) but i’m almost certain a sativa seed run would produce more seeds than an indica seed run. so that extra costs can be offset by the amount of seeds produced imo.


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## Psyphish (Mar 29, 2022)

Never had problems with ACE Seeds. I have their Malawi and Bangi Haze going right now.


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## conor c (Mar 29, 2022)

Price does not mean quality theres good beans that are cheap and some horrible ones and the same goes for expensive ones and be it hybrid or indica or a sativa whatever the price tag just doesnt correlate if its good or not not every good breeder charges and arm and a leg


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## crimsonecho (Mar 29, 2022)

conor c said:


> Price does not mean quality theres good beans that are cheap and some horrible ones and the same goes for expensive ones and be it hybrid or indica or a sativa whatever the price tag just doesnt correlate if its good or not not every good breeder charges and arm and a leg


when i do a proper seed run in my 2x2 i pull thousands of seeds. from clones in half gallon pots veg for 2 weeks fill the tent with all the strains you like to f1 put a fan in, put the reversed mother and wait 5 weeks. 

you’ll get thousands of viable seeds under 150w of leds. whats the cost here? doesnt really matter if its sativa or hybrid. i can sell those a dollar a piece and make thousands of dollars all profit. no real cost there. 

when talking about seedbanks there are other costs of course the personel, growers, distribution etc etc. but still 10 bucks for a seed is reasonable. anything over that you’re paying for the hype or something extremely rare and well worked to be stabilized.

for example i’m growing destroyer from cannabiogen by far the best smoke i’ve ever had. i won the seeds from a contest on another forum but the price tag was about 10 dollars a piece as i remember and that line has been worked by the breeder for 7 years to get rid of the hermie traits and still keep the all fire properties etc. 

thats the history shared on the seedbanks site atleast and i have no reason to doubt that. also its really one of the most stable plants i’ve ever worked with. i’m trying to reverse it with sts and i cant even properly reverse it with 6 sprays. usually just takes 1 or 2 sprays but after 6 sprays i can only see some balls forming. not like a ball covered branch like my other runs. i dont really know if its even related to that but either way its a very stable, very tasty, very well worked pure sativa and they can sell it for 10 bucks a piece so i’m sure anyone can do it


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## conor c (Mar 29, 2022)

crimsonecho said:


> when i do a proper seed run in my 2x2 i pull thousands of seeds. from clones in half gallon pots veg for 2 weeks fill the tent with all the strains you like to f1 put a fan in, put the reversed mother and wait 5 weeks.
> 
> you’ll get thousands of viable seeds under 150w of leds. whats the cost here? doesnt really matter if its sativa or hybrid. i can sell those a dollar a piece and make thousands of dollars all profit. no real cost there.
> 
> ...


Yeah man Well i give you an example kc brains been doing it 40 or 40+ years and is still sells cheap as chips so i dont think seeds should be expensive imo you can still run a long term viable buisiness without being greedy of course sativa hybrid whatever dont matter imo they sell the same in the end


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## crimsonecho (Mar 29, 2022)

conor c said:


> Yeah man Well i give you an example kc brains been doing it 40 or 40+ years and is still sells cheap as chips so i dont think seeds should be expensive imo you can still run a long term viable buisiness without being greedy of course sativa hybrid whatever dont matter imo they sell the same in the end


seeds are really easy to produce man production costs are not the reason they charge 100 bucks a seed or something as you said its greed and its the tendency to both create hype over that specific strain and cash in on that hype. 

somehow some people think when they pay 10-20x more for a seed they feel like they’re getting a better product. may be true in some other areas like electronics but definitely not the story with seeds imho.


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## Nrk.cdn (Mar 29, 2022)

Psyphish said:


> Never had problems with ACE Seeds. I have their Malawi and Bangi Haze going right now.


I ran both of those strains last year. You will hate malawi for constantly jamming a grinder due to resin. Very oily. I have to clean mine more often. Not a bad problem. The bangi is great, not too strong but good upbeat strain. It is a really good all round strain. Mine smelled like garlic mint. Both are great yielders. I made seeds from that run.

@crimsonecho 
Destroyer is a super strain. I have 2 destroyer and 2 red snake seeds from cannabiogen. They are out of the seed biz now i believe so make seeds whoever has those seeds.


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## crimsonecho (Mar 29, 2022)

Nrk.cdn said:


> I ran both of those strains last year. You will hate malawi for constantly jamming a grinder due to resin. Very oily. I have to clean mine more often. Not a bad problem. The bangi is great, not too strong but good upbeat strain. It is a really good all round strain. Mine smelled like garlic mint. Both are great yielders. I made seeds from that run.
> 
> @crimsonecho
> Destroyer is a super strain. I have 2 destroyer and 2 red snake seeds from cannabiogen. They are out of the seed biz now i believe so make seeds whoever has those seeds.


yeah they are out of the game for an indefinite time period. i’m trying man so hard to reverse this gal 

most of the strains i run are from dinafem and cannabiogen and they are both out of business atm so i’m making s1s like a mf hahahah

and i definitely agree destroyer is a super strain. never grown red snake though.


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## Nrk.cdn (Mar 29, 2022)

I will be in the same next year trying to reverse destroyer also. 

Good luck, make lots.


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## A.k.a (Mar 29, 2022)

dank'd said:


> just something i presumed after joining mr nice forums after buying a bunch of their indicas at auction
> 
> some of the pictures of the haze crosses and outback haze crosses there were totally wild looking, like nothing i have seen at typical breeder sites (aside from ace etc)
> 
> ...


Lao sa from real seed co looks like that. Or at least the first one I’ve grown does. I botched it pretty bad but it’s at 21 weeks and just about done. Smells like rotten lime and menthol.

this was before it got really bad. Took over 8 weeks just to see pistils start turning.


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## xtsho (Mar 29, 2022)

A.k.a said:


> Lao sa from real seed co looks like that. Or at least the first one I’ve grown does. I botched it pretty bad but it’s at 21 weeks and just about done. Smells like rotten lime and menthol.
> 
> this was before it got really bad. Took over 8 weeks just to see pistils start turning.
> View attachment 5110030


Some of these strains are real finicky with feeding and will show it. I've fried a few myself even with a lower EC than I normally feed. Now I feed a very low EC. I'd rather bump things up if needed to sit and watch in horror as the leaves go south.


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## A.k.a (Mar 29, 2022)

Yeah it’s really weird how little it eats. It’s a giant plant that eats like a seedling.

the nitrogen sensitivity was insane too, I definitely wasn’t ready for landrace yet but I guess you gotta learn somehow.

I had a male so I pollinated a little, and it made some enormous seeds that were 3x the size of the ones I planted for some reason.

bud looks surprisingly good though


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## conor c (Mar 29, 2022)

A.k.a said:


> Lao sa from real seed co looks like that. Or at least the first one I’ve grown does. I botched it pretty bad but it’s at 21 weeks and just about done. Smells like rotten lime and menthol.
> 
> this was before it got really bad. Took over 8 weeks just to see pistils start turning.
> View attachment 5110030


Yeah u better off in seedling compost with not alot of nutes vs normal grow soil/compost for alot of landrace strains imo


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## tstick (Mar 29, 2022)

Interesting ....It makes sense that the landrace stuff would not be heavy feeders. Most of them originated in hot, dry, red dirt in Mexico. I imagine that after decades of acclimating to poor soil conditions, they wouldn't respond well to a luxurious super-soil -at least for a few generations of sneaking up on it.


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## yesterdaysnews (Mar 30, 2022)

My last real Columbian Gold plant from 1975 bag seed,,, SoCal Days. People thought I was nuts for collecting seed back in the 1970's. I grew seed collected back in those days for 45 years. People now don't have a clue what real weed is. All this bred up hybrid goof troop, fufu weed is trash compared to the strains of old. You didn't smoke a sativa in the day and call it energetic and creative. It was all a couch lock. Indica wiped your body out and sativa wrecked your head. You didn't smoke a big fat joint in the day and go to work. There was no work after you got stoned. This last girl went well over 25 weeks flower in leggy, crazy, lady gold. Her tops were folded over and tied to the out layers. My 7' 11" Gorilla Tent couldn't contain her. Seeing she was the last one. I topped her once and let her go. I sure do miss all the old strains. And I really dislike all this goof troop, fufu weed we have now big time.


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## xtsho (Mar 30, 2022)

yesterdaysnews said:


> My last real Columbian Gold plant from 1975 bag seed,,, SoCal Days. People thought I was nuts for collecting seed back in the 1970's. I grew seed collected back in those days for 45 years. People now don't have a clue what real weed is. All this bred up hybrid goof troop, fufu weed is trash compared to the strains of old. You didn't smoke a sativa in the day and call it energetic and creative. It was all a couch lock. Indica wiped your body out and sativa wrecked your head. You didn't smoke a big fat joint in the day and go to work. There was no work after you got stoned. This last girl went well over 25 weeks flower in leggy, crazy, lady gold. Her tops were folded over and tied to the out layers. My 7' 11" Gorilla Tent couldn't contain her. Seeing she was the last one. I topped her once and let her go. I sure do miss all the old strains. And I really dislike all this goof troop, fufu weed we have now big time.
> 
> View attachment 5110420


I hear you. Everyone seems to be in a race for some high THC strain with no character. Boring cookie cutter polyhybrids with stupid childish names all tasting and looking the same. It's like tomatoes. They've been breeding tomato hybrids for years that produce well and are easy for anyone to grow but all taste the same. The problem is they lack flavor which is why so many long time gardeners are growing heirloom tomatoes and older varieties have made a comeback. I see the same thing happening with cannabis. Many growers looking only for fast flowering times, high THC levels, and tastes like berries. Recently though it seems that many are tossing that playbook in the trash and are starting to grow the heirloom varieties that are much more unique in every aspect.


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## conor c (Mar 30, 2022)

xtsho said:


> I hear you. Everyone seems to be in a race for some high THC strain with no character. Boring cookie cutter polyhybrids with stupid childish names all tasting and looking the same. It's like tomatoes. They've been breeding tomato hybrids for years that produce well and are easy for anyone to grow but all taste the same. The problem is they lack flavor which is why so many long time gardeners are growing heirloom tomatoes and older varieties have made a comeback. I see the same thing happening with cannabis. Many growers looking only for fast flowering times, high THC levels, and tastes like berries. Recently though it seems that many are tossing that playbook in the trash and are starting to grow the heirloom varieties that are much more unique in every aspect.


Exactly i like varied flavours and different effects too


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## hotrodharley (Apr 4, 2022)

I maintain a true IBL Durban Poison. Hit me up if interested. It’s the real deal with history online.


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## phunky76 (Apr 4, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> I maintain a true IBL Durban Poison. Hit me up if interested. It’s the real deal with history online.


strainly or anything?


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## hotrodharley (Apr 4, 2022)

phunky76 said:


> strainly or anything?


Just research Alaska Cannabis Cache. Long history online and not in business anymore.






Durban Poison from Alaska Cannabis Cache | strains.io | cannabis marijuana strain info


All info about the marijuana strain Durban Poison from the breeder Alaska Cannabis Cache!



strains.io


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## outside Dixie (Apr 4, 2022)

Durbin 100% Pure Durbin, Africa 6th Gen here Outdoor


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## xtsho (Apr 4, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> I maintain a true IBL Durban Poison. Hit me up if interested. It’s the real deal with history online.


But it's not from Nuclear Spasm FireStar Authentic Genetics with a big Instagram following and it doesn't have purple, cookies, punch, or monkey in its name.


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## hotrodharley (Apr 4, 2022)

xtsho said:


> But it's not from Nuclear Spasm FireStar Authentic Genetics with a big Instagram following and it doesn't have purple, cookies, punch, or monkey in its name.


4 places got ahold of seeds. Okay by me. 2 tested. 19% and 20%. The place that analyzed at 20 had a special on it a couple of weeks ago. 2 grams for $34 or 1/8 for $55. Limit 1 special per customer. I like how I can say I have seeds for it and NOBODY hits me up from these posts. Because they absolutely do not know.


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## xtsho (Apr 4, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> 4 places got ahold of seeds. Okay by me. 2 tested. 19% and 20%. The place that analyzed at 20 had a special on it a couple of weeks ago. 2 grams for $34 or 1/8 for $55. Limit 1 special per customer. I like how I can say I have seeds for it and NOBODY hits me up from these posts. Because they absolutely do not know.


People are mostly chasing the highest THC strains. They want 30% or nothing. How high does it need to be? I guess some have such a high tolerance that they have to keep chasing the high. I'm happy with a 10-20% THC level and then sometimes I get too high. 

I know people that probably smoke a 1/4-1/2 a day and never get the effects I get from taking just a couple of hits. I'm not using cannabis for medication so those that are should be doing what they need to. But for just the recreational user, cutting back on the potency and frequency for awhile will make smoking more enjoyable. At least it did for me and others that have taken that approach.


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## conor c (Apr 4, 2022)

xtsho said:


> People are mostly chasing the highest THC strains. They want 30% or nothing. How high does it need to be? I guess some have such a high tolerance that they have to keep chasing the high. I'm happy with a 10-20% THC level and then sometimes I get too high.
> 
> I know people that probably smoke a 1/4-1/2 a day and never get the effects I get from taking just a couple of hits. I'm not using cannabis for medication so those that are should be doing what they need to. But for just the recreational user, cutting back on the potency and frequency for awhile will make smoking more enjoyable. At least it did for me and others that have taken that approach.


I dont mind high thc but it becomes meaningless in many strains today i think cos it still dont do what the old stuff does thc is just one part of a huge picture imo i dont mind 30% if it would do what you want it to but in reality i find few hype strains can and im very guilty also of the 0 tolerance breaks ive never really had one since i started toking lol i still get baked just maybe takes me more than some


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## hotrodharley (Apr 4, 2022)

xtsho said:


> People are mostly chasing the highest THC strains. They want 30% or nothing. How high does it need to be? I guess some have such a high tolerance that they have to keep chasing the high. I'm happy with a 10-20% THC level and then sometimes I get too high.
> 
> I know people that probably smoke a 1/4-1/2 a day and never get the effects I get from taking just a couple of hits. I'm not using cannabis for medication so those that are should be doing what they need to. But for just the recreational user, cutting back on the potency and frequency for awhile will make smoking more enjoyable. At least it did for me and others that have taken that approach.


I’m a firm believer in terpene profiles and the entourage effect. I’ve bought 25% flower prerolls for the drive home from Fairbanks. 45 miles of mountain road. Finish the entire thing before I get home. Lol. I don’t care what it tested at because I didn’t get any higher than with a 17% with my favorite terpenes.


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## phunky76 (Apr 4, 2022)

outside Dixie said:


> Durbin 100% Pure Durbin, Africa 6th Gen here Outdoor


selling seeds?


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## outside Dixie (Apr 4, 2022)

No but might would give you a few to get started..


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## Sofa King Smoooth (Apr 6, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> 4 places got ahold of seeds. Okay by me. 2 tested. 19% and 20%. The place that analyzed at 20 had a special on it a couple of weeks ago. 2 grams for $34 or 1/8 for $55. Limit 1 special per customer. I like how I can say I have seeds for it and NOBODY hits me up from these posts. Because they absolutely do not know.


 I just read it. I'm down.


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## phunky76 (Apr 13, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> I maintain a true IBL Durban Poison. Hit me up if interested. It’s the real deal with history online.


thank you for the seeds!!!


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## hotrodharley (Apr 13, 2022)

phunky76 said:


> thank you for the seeds!!!


You’re going to love this. Plants are beautiful. Top dominant for the most part. Thanks again.


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## hotrodharley (Apr 13, 2022)

Guys, I’m sold out of the IBL. Next run will be done just before Thanksgiving. I’ll post up when done with pictures.


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## mandocat (Apr 26, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> 4 places got ahold of seeds. Okay by me. 2 tested. 19% and 20%. The place that analyzed at 20 had a special on it a couple of weeks ago. 2 grams for $34 or 1/8 for $55. Limit 1 special per customer. I like how I can say I have seeds for it and NOBODY hits me up from these posts. Because they absolutely do not know.


I wish we could find that in Oklahoma! I would gladly pay for that!


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## mandocat (Apr 26, 2022)

mandocat said:


> I wish we could find that in Oklahoma! I would gladly pay for that!


I have never found a decent sativa in an Oklahoma dispensary, so many around here don't know what they are missing!


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## hotrodharley (Apr 26, 2022)

mandocat said:


> I have never found a decent sativa in an Oklahoma dispensary, so many around here don't know what they are missing!


The reason they’re charging double for it here is this strain runs 85 days easy before chop. That’s too long in every way for most growers. Much easier to drop something they chop in 56-63 days.


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## hotrodharley (Apr 26, 2022)

I have some Vietnam Black. 15-17 weeks flower. Often takes 18. I’ve admired the pack long enough. They’re being sent to a friend who has a room just for sativas.


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## TheWholeTruth (Apr 26, 2022)

Intresting thread. Id just like to add to some of the discusion about costs of indca seeds vs sativa seeds. Some guys were saying well the sativa seeds take the same time to rippen. That actualy isnt always the case. Ive seen some pure landrace sativa seeds take quite some time before the shells fully ripen to colour An one other thing some proper sativas can take 8-9 weeks in flowering before even showing pistols properly. Add that to the sometimes 6-9 weeks it can take the seed to fully finish an you'l see making seeds from sativas can end up costing quite a bit more.
But some distributers are able to do cheaper prices by doing outdoor gorilla type grows or by going direct to the country of origin to the landrace farmers.


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## mandocat (Apr 27, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> I have some Vietnam Black. 15-17 weeks flower. Often takes 18. I’ve admired the pack long enough. They’re being sent to a friend who has a room just for sativas.


I'll be running this outdoors this summer! It contains Vietnamese Black, among other goodies! https://www.kingdomorganicseeds.com/kos-seed-shop/strains/kos-darkling-sativa/


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## Go go n chill (Apr 30, 2022)

Budzbuddha said:


> Was gonna point you to SOA ( seeds of Africa ) - that’s where I got Malawi Gold but seems most out of stock.
> ‘That sucker pushed me 16 + weeks.


Ya man I harvested fems at 12 and regs at 15... I got 3oz+ per plant.


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## Go go n chill (Apr 30, 2022)

Malawi Gold harvested at 15 weeks. Pretty good daytime smoke. Smooth but no aroma or flavor to write home about.


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## hotrodharley (Apr 30, 2022)

Go go n chill said:


> Malawi Gold harvested at 15 weeks. Pretty good daytime smoke. Smooth but no aroma or flavor to write home about.
> View attachment 5126445View attachment 5126446


Make cobs with it.


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## Go go n chill (Apr 30, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> Make cobs with it.


You mean with corn husks, their traditional way of curing? To be honest I was super stoked to see them stack up so long and continuous. I had planned on doing that but the regular females finished airy and unimpressive. So they got my regular treatment. The feminized plants from seed fair finished much frostier, much tastier and more dense. Really nice buzz but just nothing exceptional about the flavors or aromas during smoking. Just my amateur 2 cents


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## hotrodharley (Apr 30, 2022)

Go go n chill said:


> You mean with corn husks, their traditional way of curing? To be honest I was super stoked to see them stack up so long and continuous. I had planned on doing that but the regular females finished airy and unimpressive. So they got my regular treatment. The feminized plants from seed fair finished much frostier, much tastier and more dense. Really nice buzz but just nothing exceptional about the flavors or aromas during smoking. Just my amateur 2 cents


Sativas are often airy and loose. One reason they do better in wet conditions as far as bud rot. Sativas are often lower THC as well but not always!


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## Uponit (May 5, 2022)

austin98 said:


> makes sense to me. seems like a bigger investment to breed without the returns to justify it. am I missing something wattzup?


The buzz. When I complain that modern cannabis all feels pretty much the same and doesn't even get me high after a week of smoking, people say things like, "Old timers are misremembering." "Take a tolerance break." "Modern strains are just more powerful" 

All I can say is that you've got to smoke what we smoked to know. 

As far as a good old-school sativa with fire, I just started an Ace Golden Tiger 3rd version. I'm really excited about this grow because I think this cultivar might be "the One." If it is, maybe I'll call it "Obama." I just recently found out about Ace and plan to try many of their varieties. 

I'm also going to be doing a seed grow of Molokai Frost by Good Gear. I know it's not a pure sativa, but I hope a pheno hunt can find me a good old-school high. From now on, that's going to be my quest.


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## Uponit (May 5, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> Guys, I’m sold out of the IBL. Next run will be done just before Thanksgiving. I’ll post up when done with pictures.


I'm following you so I won't miss the notice.


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## decrepit digits (May 6, 2022)

Uponit said:


> The buzz. When I complain that modern cannabis all feels pretty much the same and doesn't even get me high after a week of smoking, people say things like, "Old timers are misremembering." "Take a tolerance break." "Modern strains are just more powerful"
> 
> All I can say is that you've got to smoke what we smoked to know.


Modern breeding practices have caused this, it started with breeding in greenhouses and then high pressure sodium lights and now possibly led's too. Other factors of modern breeding also come into play. I am old I do not misremember, I know folks who never take a tolerance break, and newer crossings are not proving to be more powerful, there not strains only crossings. 
Most sativa's of today are actually hybreds, all you have to do is look at the oldest pictures of sativa buds to prove it to yourself. Good original sativa's only came from a handful of places, anywhere else they were low grade. I have never been able to grow a good sativa indoors let alone breed them to be better. Others are now claiming to be able to do it, but most of what I see are hybreds, sativa's of old did not make big fat buds especially indoors.


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## xtsho (May 6, 2022)




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## TheWholeTruth (May 6, 2022)

decrepit digits said:


> Modern breeding practices have caused this, it started with breeding in greenhouses and then high pressure sodium lights and now possibly led's too. Other factors of modern breeding also come into play. I am old I do not misremember, I know folks who never take a tolerance break, and newer crossings are not proving to be more powerful, there not strains only crossings.
> Most sativa's of today are actually hybreds, all you have to do is look at the oldest pictures of sativa buds to prove it to yourself. Good original sativa's only came from a handful of places, anywhere else they were low grade. I have never been able to grow a good sativa indoors let alone breed them to be better. Others are now claiming to be able to do it, but most of what I see are hybreds, sativa's of old did not make big fat buds especially indoors.


Its hard to find sativas like that now. Most of the places selling landraces now seem to have sativas that are heavily pumped up an seem to be bred for commercial use. Not many places left on the planet that still have those old sativas with tiny little airy lose flowers. Especially not good ones like there used to be a few decades back.


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## xtsho (May 6, 2022)




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## VincenzioVonHook (May 6, 2022)

xtsho said:


>


Looks similar to the Durban poison I grew last year


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## xtsho (May 7, 2022)

VincenzioVonHook said:


> Looks similar to the Durban poison I grew last year
> View attachment 5129671


That was some Oldtimers Haze I grew. 20 weeks of flowering and it probably could have gone longer. It was in pretty bad shape by the time I harvested it. That plant kicked my ass. It got too tall, I had to break it's bones, it didn't care, barely fit in the tent, etc... It gave me some good weed though.


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## Uponit (May 7, 2022)

decrepit digits said:


> Modern breeding practices have caused this, it started with breeding in greenhouses and then high pressure sodium lights and now possibly led's too. Other factors of modern breeding also come into play. I am old I do not misremember, I know folks who never take a tolerance break, and newer crossings are not proving to be more powerful, there not strains only crossings.
> Most sativa's of today are actually hybreds, all you have to do is look at the oldest pictures of sativa buds to prove it to yourself. Good original sativa's only came from a handful of places, anywhere else they were low grade. I have never been able to grow a good sativa indoors let alone breed them to be better. Others are now claiming to be able to do it, but most of what I see are hybreds, sativa's of old did not make big fat buds especially indoors.


I've only been growing going on 2 years and have grown a couple of sativas but they were basic landraces and I grew them in the recommended fashion - stick them on flowering schedule ASAP and keep them in small pots etc. due to stretch. But I've never had a real problem with stretch. In fact, my plants are almost always too short. I'm learning to grow them taller but that ain't the point. 

I think sativas should be encouraged to grow as large as they can, and it's easy to train them so that they have 20 colas or so. Their height should be manageable then.

The grow I just started will be a SCROG and I'm expecting wide and unruly, but not too tall to manage. 

I used to smoke every day in my youth, and have never had a problem with high tolerance. I could always get high. If I was smoking shake, 3-5 hits got me where I wanted to be. If I was smoking decent bud, 2 hits. I think this obsession with THC has pushed out myriad other cannabinoids that were necessary for the kind of highs we used to enjoy back then. I compare it to FM radio, with THC as the carrier wave and the other cannabinoids as the actual music. THC by itself just isn't much fun most of the time. 

II hear a lot about terpenes, that they are responsible for creating a good buzz. Maybe there's truth to that, but in getting from hippy days to here, it seems clear to me that there's still much missing.


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## Uponit (May 7, 2022)

TheWholeTruth said:


> Its hard to find sativas like that now. Most of the places selling landraces now seem to have sativas that are heavily pumped up an seem to be bred for commercial use. Not many places left on the planet that still have those old sativas with tiny little airy lose flowers. Especially not good ones like there used to be a few decades back.


Those ugly-ass buds in the High Times image that keeps going around aren't the ones I remember. Sure, a lot of stuff looked like that but it wasn't very good. I remember smoking good "sensimilla" - in quotes because we thought that was the name of the strain - top shelf bud by anyone's standard.

Once I smoked Panama Red, which had very large buds. It was 1979. I laid down in the bathtub and watched colorful 2-dimensional cartoon characters cavorting and grinning at me from the wall like it was a TV set. Like living stickers from a kid's sticker pack. So cool - after taking 3 hits. I have occasionally experienced minor visuals from smoking modern cannabis, but it's not the same thing.


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## decrepit digits (May 7, 2022)

Haze's were from the start a hybred, not saying they are not pure sativa genetics, but any strain that has been around that long is suspect and may have other genetics mixed in. I have noticed a few people breeding in the old hot spots with sativa'ish genetics so there may be a return of some of them. It is never too late to grow and breed select genetics outdoors in those few places that produce exceptional sativa's, so they can be recreated maybe not exactly but close enough. We are lucky that the early name's of weed correlated to where they were from, not like today where anything goes. I never saw buds like those in the early high times either, it was always smashed together so you could not tell what it looked like. The few times I smoked real good weed back then it was all ready rolled up and was the only joint left of it.
It is true sensimilla will puff up a sativa, but pollinate or breed that same sativa when it should happen will show what it truly looks like.


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## VincenzioVonHook (May 7, 2022)

Check out khalifa genetics...they have their own site and they are distributed through ace seeds from what I know...plenty of landrace collected straight from the source.


They have quite a few hybrids, but I've seen minor inconsistencies with their heritage. Their Landrace are legit though. I tried to grow a Laos Highland indoors and failed. Gave it to a mate and it ended up 11 foot tall outside, and had a true landrace sativa structure.


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## VincenzioVonHook (Jul 25, 2022)

Khalifa has just released some "80s Durban Poison". The Pics look legit. My mates got a 12 pack. Im really keen to see how they go.


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## farmerfischer (Jul 26, 2022)

Budzbuddha said:


> Was gonna point you to SOA ( seeds of Africa ) - that’s where I got Malawi Gold but seems most out of stock.
> ‘That sucker pushed me 16 + weeks.


I grew this a few years ago.. very long flowering time.. lol..


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## ilovetoskiatalta (Oct 6, 2022)

hotrodharley said:


> I’m a firm believer in terpene profiles and the entourage effect. I’ve bought 25% flower prerolls for the drive home from Fairbanks. 45 miles of mountain road. Finish the entire thing before I get home. Lol. I don’t care what it tested at because I didn’t get any higher than with a 17% with my favorite terpenes.


You just end up smoking more, and then buying more lol


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## ismann (Oct 6, 2022)

People are chasing the boring high THC cultivars because that's what sells in dispensaries. The typical low-information customer doesn't want to buy your shwag looking pure sativa that takes 18 weeks with 10% THC. Only numbers sells on the market. That's the unfortunate truth.


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## futurebanjo (Nov 28, 2022)

ismann said:


> People are chasing the boring high THC cultivars because that's what sells in dispensaries. The typical low-information customer doesn't want to buy your shwag looking pure sativa that takes 18 weeks with 10% THC. Only numbers sells on the market. That's the unfortunate truth.


I know what you mean, super high THC might sell, but it absolutley dosen't make for a high quality smoke, nessesarily.

It's a bit like going into a bar and asking for a nice home brewed beer or cider, only to be told that the only drinks they have are vodka and whisky.

Dutch passion have been doing some graphics on this, on certain strains, but not all, they are listing various canibinoid content, but also the terpines... I have no idea how accurate it is, but it's a step in the correct direction... for example:



https://dutch-passion.com/img/cms/Cannabinoids%20and%20Terpenes/Auto-Power-Plant-dutch-passion-seed-company.jpg


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## futurebanjo (Nov 28, 2022)

i'm running some monsters at the moment, but they are only 7% thc but also 7% CBD .

I'm a big fan of keeping a balance. I really don't think chasing ever higher THC is the way to go.


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## Brettman (Nov 28, 2022)

VincenzioVonHook said:


> Check out khalifa genetics...they have their own site and they are distributed through ace seeds from what I know...plenty of landrace collected straight from the source.
> View attachment 5130128View attachment 5130129View attachment 5130130View attachment 5130132View attachment 5130133
> 
> They have quite a few hybrids, but I've seen minor inconsistencies with their heritage. Their Landrace are legit though. I tried to grow a Laos Highland indoors and failed. Gave it to a mate and it ended up 11 foot tall outside, and had a true landrace sativa structure.


All of these would be culled so fast if they were in my grow room! lmao


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## GODWORK (Nov 28, 2022)

I want to Chuck a [Jamaican (M) x Nepalese (F)]...
Then Pheno Hunt That,,, for POTENT SMOKE...
Once I select a Keeper...I want to cross The Keeper to a Malawi Keeper
Then Pheno hunt 120 F1's

Im trying to create a Lucid Trippy HIGH...Cultivar

I plan on running The* [JAM x Nepal x Malawi*] Selections to *{Brazil/India}* with a SOLID Widow ...Or a Pure Afghan
to pass on bag appeal *bud structure*
Then run another 120 seeds for Females...Only. 
Then Target bud structure & HIGH in those....

I have RAIDED Icmag & Bean Hoarders Info on Grow Techniques
The Old School Info ISNT enough...
Some of Those Guys in The Threads had it LOCKED

I watched FRANCO at Greenhouse run a Pure Thai...16 Weeks...He KILLED IT!!!
The bud structure was AMAZING!!
He had ACTUAL nuggz Bro...Dense AF!!
No Topping...

Shout Out 
@dank'd 
@xtsho 
@tstick 
For The Info In this Thread


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## dbz (Nov 28, 2022)

I just got some Panama Red (I'll flower when I have a spare 6 months for flower lol) Columbia Gold, Acapulco, Moroccan Beldia...
Also got some Indica landraces to try a couple crosses...NL1, Pakistani chiral Kush...I have an LAPK vegging that I may throw in the mix with something as well.


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## VincenzioVonHook (Nov 28, 2022)

Brettman said:


> All of these would be culled so fast if they were in my grow room! lmao


Yea they aren't the most visually appealing bud structures that's for sure. 

When I started smoking 25 years ago we had a huge influx of thai here, so a lot of our bud looked very similar. I have a strange soft spot for it. 

I miss the mango/spice profiles, but don't miss the yield and stretch..


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## GODWORK (Nov 28, 2022)

Panama x Malawi is said to be some POTENT SMOKE....
There was a badass seed company call YARDIE SEEDs...
They had something that They describe as true to life GANJA
It produce THICK Rich Smoke & Had a HEAVY STONE...

I want to find that & cross it to a TRIPPY Malawi & Smooth it out with a Trance Like Nepali
Trippy Trance Stoned


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## Toka416 (Dec 1, 2022)

dank'd said:


> just something i presumed after joining mr nice forums after buying a bunch of their indicas at auction
> 
> some of the pictures of the haze crosses and outback haze crosses there were totally wild looking, like nothing i have seen at typical breeder sites (aside from ace etc)
> 
> ...


Mr nice the best for sativa effects..


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