# check this sh*t out



## fdd2blk (Jun 6, 2008)

what if you build a box? put a big plant below it. just 1 plant. top it and train it so it grows thru the bottom of 2 separate boxes. have each side sealed separately. with enough veg time you could get 2 nice main stalks. 1 growing individual branches in each box. you could maybe start by vegging both sides. then put 1 side on 12/12. leave the other side on 18/6 and continue to veg. you will have to take cuttings from the veg side for the first month then let it regrow those sites for the second month. by this time the 12/12 side should be finished flowering. harvest that side leaving the leaves and branches and only remove the buds. put it back on 18/6. now flip the second side to 12/12 and repeat.  ........


----------



## EMDrummer (Jun 6, 2008)

Yeah, seems like a good idea, you'd almost have to do it with hydro though, but if that's what you use anyway, why not try.


----------



## hIliKuZ420 (Jun 6, 2008)

that's a gnarly idea, i say if its possible try it.

you can do it!


----------



## StickyGlass (Jun 6, 2008)

Wow, that sounds awesome....... advanced!


----------



## pacman (Jun 6, 2008)

if it worked that'd be good with these low plant counts, but I'm thinking the plant might think half of it is in the shade or something, cause if one side had 18/6 i would think the plant would not think to flower, but then again i guess plant doesn't have a single "brains" thus each node might act on it's own depending on the variables brought to that one branch. fuck man now you got me thinkin which means either you'll have to try it or i will brotha!


----------



## MajesticWhelk (Jun 6, 2008)

But doesn't the whole plant operate uniformly?

Can one half of a plant be vegging and another half be flowering?


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 6, 2008)

MajesticWhelk said:


> But doesn't the whole plant operate uniformly?
> 
> Can one half of a plant be vegging and another half be flowering?


i don't know. does anyone?


----------



## JayDRO (Jun 6, 2008)

what about when you want to feed it veg and bloom nutes, are you only going to feed the bloom side of the container and the veg side of the same container there proper nutes, that seems hard as fk to me lol, and impossible.


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 6, 2008)

JayDRO said:


> what about when you want to feed it veg and bloom nutes, are you only going to feed the bloom side of the container and the veg side of the same container there proper nutes, that seems hard as fk to me lol, and impossible.



you could feed the pot with this ......... 











then you could foliar feed each side accordingly.


----------



## stickyicky77 (Jun 6, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i don't know. does anyone?


I have seen pics of a outdoor grow where 1/2 of a plant got light from a security light during the night. The half of the plant that did not get any light at night did flower and the half that got the light did not flower. So i guess it is possible.


----------



## tommo9090 (Jun 6, 2008)

even if the plant COULD veg and flower at the same time,

seeing as the side thats on 12/12 would die after 1 or 2 harvests you'd obviously stick individual clones OFF the veging one to the cloning one.

which is the same principal as a devided grow box. So basically the whole idea seems kinda unnecessary.

pce


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 6, 2008)

tommo9090 said:


> even if the plant COULD veg and flower at the same time,
> 
> seeing as the side thats on 12/12 would die after 1 or 2 harvests you'd obviously stick individual clones OFF the veging one to the cloning one.
> 
> ...



exactly why would it die?


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 6, 2008)

stickyicky77 said:


> I have seen pics of a outdoor grow where 1/2 of a plant got light from a security light during the night. Half of the plant flowered and the other side of the plant that did not get any light did not flower. So i guess it is possible.





i've heard of covering 1 branch with a black bag for 12 hours a day during veg to determine sex. so i guess it will work. i saw the pics you speak of. in a book somewhere.


----------



## t0k3s (Jun 6, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i've heard of covering 1 branch with a black bag for 12 hours a day during veg to determine sex. so i guess it will work. i saw the pics you speak of. in a book somewhere.


If it does not work how about 2 plants but same concept


----------



## tommo9090 (Jun 6, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> exactly why would it die?


if you use a plant for around 2 or more harvests doesnt it die?

my bad if i doesn't I just thought it did.


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 6, 2008)

tommo9090 said:


> if you use a plant for around 2 or more harvests doesnt it die?
> 
> my bad if i doesn't I just thought it did.



naw, it doesn't die.


----------



## tommo9090 (Jun 6, 2008)

really!? 
how come people dont keep using teh same plant to get more harvests?


pce.


----------



## smppro (Jun 6, 2008)

in soft secrets either Ed or Jorge talk about seeing a plant that was getting half of it hit by some kind of street light and only the other half flowered


----------



## smppro (Jun 6, 2008)

oh yeah awesome idea by the way


----------



## EMDrummer (Jun 6, 2008)

tommo9090 said:


> really!?
> how come people dont keep using teh same plant to get more harvests?
> 
> 
> pce.


It's just better, I know that for one, the older the plant, the more susceptible to disease it is.


----------



## TMB77 (Jun 6, 2008)

hm, interesting question.

I have to say it wouldnt work, at least not for more than a few weeks. Hormones and signaling molecules are produced in a plant during flowering, and they are mobile....so even if you had the division of branches right down at the collar of the plant, eventually the other side would get the 'signal' that it's supposed to be flowering, and would start flowering (theoretically).

are you going to do this? i'm quite curious to see the result of this...please keep us posted!


----------



## 250wpride (Jun 6, 2008)

I think I wanna build a box use same plants but metal halide and hps on different sides but flower the whole plant and see what the difference in bud and weight is.


----------



## diggitydank420 (Jun 6, 2008)

250wpride said:


> I think I wanna build a box use same plants but metal halide and hps on different sides but flower the whole plant and see what the difference in bud and weight is.


Perhaps a new thread for that one... good idea!


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 6, 2008)

Fdd your a interesting fellow!!!


----------



## marijuanajoe1982 (Jun 6, 2008)

250wpride said:


> I think I wanna build a box use same plants but metal halide and hps on different sides but flower the whole plant and see what the difference in bud and weight is.


- I would have to say that the HPS side would definitely give you better buds and more weight, as the HPS light spectrum (warm - red/orange) is specifically targeted at flowering while the MH is in a light spectrum(cool - blue) that promotes vegging far better than flowering. It is possible to flower under MH or even veg under HPS but there is a reason why people switch to HPS for flowering after using MH for vegging. I would think you would just be cutting down on your harvest and quality on the MH side, so if I were you I wouldn't waste half of a good plant. no offence, just my 2 cents.

- As to the origional thread... Who knows? I would think that what one person said about the hormones within the plant limiting the amount of time that one side could be vegged while the other is flowered might hold true, but it could be possible for awhile... if anyone can do it, its YOU, boss! don't you have a plant with branches from like 4 different strains grafted onto it? If you can do that, you can probably do almost anything, lol. You ever run faster than a speeding bullet? Are you more powerful than a locomotive? Perhaps you've leapt a tall building in a single bound?
I know that sounds sarcastic, but I'm not trying to be. This guy seriously is a superhero when it comes to this shit


----------



## bigbud305 (Jun 7, 2008)

I have seen a plant that one side flowered and the other stayed in veg because a street light shined on one side at night.


----------



## ceestyle (Jun 7, 2008)

i would take any odds that this will work, assuming fdd does it right.

this would be the ultimate test of a few different lighting systems. CFL vs T5 vs MH vs HPS on ONE PLANT!

just do it dot com.


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jun 7, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Fdd your a interesting fellow!!!


i agree why havent i been seen this?


----------



## kochab (Jun 7, 2008)

this is the link loudblunts gave me and the way Im gonna start force flowering soon. Actually going to get the trashcan here in bout 30mins.
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - YUKONS OUTDOOR TRASH CAN SCROG

why dont you take 2 trash cans and cut holes in them, inset topped and train(ed) plant, light proof the holes you cut and cover each side according to what you want it to do. Leave the veg side open for 24hrs a day and cover one side with a lid for 12/12. Do a harvest and switch it around, then try to do it again?
seems easier to do than the box idea....


----------



## kochab (Jun 7, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> i agree why havent i been seen this?



muha ha ha speak of the man and he is.

Be back later tonight folks.....


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 7, 2008)

kochab said:


> this is the link loudblunts gave me and the way Im gonna start force flowering soon. Actually going to get the trashcan here in bout 30mins.
> International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - YUKONS OUTDOOR TRASH CAN SCROG
> 
> why dont you take 2 trash cans and cut holes in them, inset topped and train(ed) plant, light proof the holes you cut and cover each side according to what you want it to do. Leave the veg side open for 24hrs a day and cover one side with a lid for 12/12. Do a harvest and switch it around, then try to do it again?
> seems easier to do than the box idea....


i could do it with a small can and 1 branch. very nice idea.


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 7, 2008)

That thrash can scrog is super stealth, any one could have one of those just sitting on thier patio and no one would even know. Super good idea.


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

I picked mine up tonight. My soil mix is going to be 1/3 pearlite, 1/3 compost, and 1/3 of this miracle grow organic choice they had @ wally world here. (all that was open this late) Everything else they had had muclh in it or was miracle grow time released feed for like 4-9 months.... The other organic fuckin miracle grow they had fed veg nutes for 4 months.... I got 2 8qt bags.

made from 50-55% composted bark, spagnum peat moss, pastrerurized poultry litter and an oraganic wetting agent.....
0.10-0.05-0.05

total nitrogen..............0.10%
ammoniacal nitrogen 0.002%
water soulabule nitrogen...0.001%
water insouluable nitrogen 0.0097%

avalible phosphate......0.05%
soulable potash.......0.05%

*this product contains 0.097% sowly available nirtogen.

says everywhere o the bag derived from poultry litter.....so chickenshit....

that work for a short veg and flower with some high phoseperous nutes?

Im gonna bury this damn can tomorrow.


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 8, 2008)

Kochab you gonna do the trash can Scrog??

that would be awesome to watch you go at it, I felt kinda like the guy on the other link didnt do it right. you know?


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Kochab you gonna do the trash can Scrog??
> 
> that would be awesome to watch you go at it, I felt kinda like the guy on the other link didnt do it right. you know?



dunno what Im going to do in it as of the moment. I know Im going to force flower some Hijack inside one somehow.
I take pics of the can and dirt.

oh yeah and a hitchiking inchworm that was on me hat when I came back inside yesterday


























Im going to bury mine out in a location that gets pretty good sun. Not putting all that foil shit in there cause thats just ghetto and would attract attention from the air (not to mention burn my plants).

gotta get my ass off here and go dig a massive hole....


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 8, 2008)

That worm is awesome, hes even in mid inch.

Go dig that hole!!!!


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> That worm is awesome, hes even in mid inch.
> 
> Go dig that hole!!!!



hey now Ive been up all night because of my insomnia and ivm baked as hell now. lol
Im gettin outta here now


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jun 8, 2008)

i was going to do the idea....


until i thought about what happens when somebody comes to work on the house or working on something out side and they see a trashcan and open....

im fucked 

i still may do outdoors tho....guerilla grow


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> i was going to do the idea....
> 
> 
> until i thought about what happens when somebody comes to work on the house or working on something out side and they see a trashcan and open....
> ...


Im finding out the hard way that its a lot of work but im burying mine....Started about 45 mins ago and Im almost halfway there. Im got tired though, suns coming up higher in the sky now and Im pretty damn high myself.lol I found somebody with some indica left over from their last grow yesterday which is rare where I stay @. I had bad insomnia last night and I could have smoked untill I passed out but i didnt wanna smoke all my bud So I suffered through the boredom and stayed up. Shits kicking my ass htis morning now tho. lol
Glad this can is close enough to put rock salt in someones ass if they mess with it.
Someones dog is picking on mine too. Last weeek I had a pup come home from the woods with a penny sized hole through her ear and this morning one came back from their morning run with a 2 inch gash in her ear 9but @ leat not all the way through like last time). God help whatever it is if they r un into it when all 5 of them are together. They are like a little family fighting machine.


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jun 8, 2008)

i wanna do one in my yard, but shit.... i dont know....


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> i wanna do one in my yard, but shit.... i dont know....


There aint no way that I would put one directly in my yard. My wife suggested that since I could cover it but no way. All it would take would be one peek from the meter reader dude or something like that(I do all my own construction work)


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jun 8, 2008)

we dont have meter readers. 

i do construction too...but the bitchy landlord rather the insurance company pay for it.

my girl suggested we do one outside, but she dont think the trashcan is a good idea!


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> we dont have meter readers.
> 
> i do construction too...but the bitchy landlord rather the insurance company pay for it.
> 
> my girl suggested we do one outside, but she dont think the trashcan is a good idea!


get off your ass and dig a hole lb. lol


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jun 8, 2008)

i dont think that trashcan would look legit in a hole in my backyard


especially with me tending to it everyday!


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 8, 2008)

you all forget how to start a thread?


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> you all forget how to start a thread?


well geez, I thought it kinda went along with the subject flow here.
Forgive me, I havent seen you say that you had any plans that you are planning on trying to do this yet.

Although it should work, you can cover one branch to force flower and sex outdoors I dont see why not with half a plants worth of branches....


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jun 8, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> you all forget how to start a thread?


while we're at it...

i just came back from outside and killed a few black widows.


*cringes* i hate fucking spiders, let alone deadly poisonous ones!


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 8, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> i was going to do the idea....
> 
> 
> until i thought about what happens when somebody comes to work on the house or working on something out side and they see a trashcan and open....
> ...



can't you mow your own lawn?


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jun 8, 2008)

i do mow my own lawn.... i mow my neighbors lawn as well? what are you saying?


im talking about what if something random pops up....(b/c knowing my luck, something will happen).....shit i dunno.... and he just happens to be repairing something outside and has to put something in the trash and he sees this trashcan....


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 8, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> i do mow my own lawn.... i mow my neighbors lawn as well? what are you saying?
> 
> 
> im talking about what if something random pops up....(b/c knowing my luck, something will happen).....shit i dunno.... and he just happens to be repairing something outside and has to put something in the trash and he sees this trashcan....



like a cop shows up with a warrant for your brother-in-law? lol 

5 times in the last year i have had cops in my backyard.


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> like a cop shows up with a warrant for your brother-in-law? lol
> 
> 5 times in the last year i have had cops in my backyard.


time to ham him knocked off then


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jun 8, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> like a cop shows up with a warrant for your brother-in-law? lol
> 
> 5 times in the last year i have had cops in my backyard.


yea that has got to suck!!!


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 8, 2008)

kochab said:


> time to ham him knocked off then



i thought you went to bed. you keep logging off then coming back.


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i thought you went to bed. you keep logging off then coming back.



nah im not logging out? Just doing other things on the pc while Im online.
i need to get off my ass and go finish that hole. Im lazy when it comes to digging.


----------



## LoudBlunts (Jun 8, 2008)

fuck outside.


i just killed a few black widows.

imma pussy!

for me to be such a country boy....i cant STAND damn bugs! more specifically spiders and roaches!


----------



## Sadistic Incubus (Jun 8, 2008)

It is possible, one way to early sex a plant is take one of the smaller nodes at the bottem and bag it so it only gets 12/12 but the rest of the plant still gets 18 hours of light, the branch that is covered will preflower allowing you to sex it without flowering the whole plant.


----------



## sir smokesalot (Jun 8, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i don't know. does anyone?


i would assume that since we would only be dealing with one plant, that the plant would not be able to direct the flowering hormones to just one side or the other. but if the black bag sexing works than maybe this would work too. maybe the hormones for flowering are only created in the portion of the plant that is receiving 12/12 and are not dispersed throughout the whole plant? come on FDD you dont know that answer to this one?


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

Im back now. The damn trash can is buried now. Next time I get a bright idea like digging a hole that damn big, somebody bop me on the forehead and say "shoulda had a v8 thats gonna be a shitload of work..."


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 8, 2008)

Ill remeber that for you mr kochab.


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> fuck outside.
> 
> 
> i just killed a few black widows.
> ...



oh and speaking of the buggers...
saw this one this evening.


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 8, 2008)

that's a big spider.


----------



## kochab (Jun 8, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> that's a big spider.


thats a baby. Ill try to get a picture of an adult one here in the next few days


----------



## sasquatch (Jun 8, 2008)

I may be relatively new here but i recall going over the original question proposed in this thread in a plant bio class i took. Here goes my understanding of the subject.

There is much speculation as to which hormone actually causes plants to flower. However the most common belief is that the hormone florigen is primarilly responsible as first described by Mikhail Chailakhyan in 1937. Long story short the experiment conducted involved grafting two plants together. Plant A was exposed to the correct photoperiod for flowering and Plant B was not. The result was both plants flowered therefore proving that the hormone to flower was transfered from one plant to another through the vascular tissue. My point is that if florigen could travel between grafted plants then it could travel from one part of a single plant to another part of the same plant so long as some of the leaves were exposed to the correct photoperiod for flowering.  In light of this theoretically a series of plants (5 for example) grafted together should flower even after all the leaves were trimmed off except for those of one plant. If that plant was put under the correct amount of light to flower then the rest should also flower

Additionally other experiments were conducted between different species of plants in which the same experiment was used that i mentioned above. As in the original eperiment both plants flowered. This showed that florigen was a universal flowering hormone in most if not all plants. This then brings up a question. What if a cannabis was grafted to another similar plant but another species. Would the cannabis plant flower if it was not exposed to correct amounts of light/dark to flower if the other plant of another species of plant was exposed to its correct amount of light/dark?

Once again this is just my understanding of the subject and if i have any of that wrong feel free to say so.

pce


----------



## THEGROWER42384 (Jun 9, 2008)

crazy i would think it would not flower but hell i dont know everything maby ill try something like this good experament


----------



## kochab (Jun 9, 2008)

sasquatch said:


> I may be relatively new here but i recall going over the original question proposed in this thread in a plant bio class i took. Here goes my understanding of the subject.
> 
> There is much speculation as to which hormone actually causes plants to flower. However the most common belief is that the hormone florigen is primarilly responsible as first described by Mikhail Chailakhyan in 1937. Long story short the experiment conducted involved grafting two plants together. Plant A was exposed to the correct photoperiod for flowering and Plant B was not. The result was both plants flowered therefore proving that the hormone to flower was transfered from one plant to another through the vascular tissue. My point is that if florigen could travel between grafted plants then it could travel from one part of a single plant to another part of the same plant so long as some of the leaves were exposed to the correct photoperiod for flowering.  In light of this theoretically a series of plants (5 for example) grafted together should flower even after all the leaves were trimmed off except for those of one plant. If that plant was put under the correct amount of light to flower then the rest should also flower
> 
> ...


grafting dosent have to be done to experiment this. If you would like to see it firsthand, go outside and cover a branch of cannabis for 12/12. It will show sex on that one branch and the rest of the plant will keep vegging...


----------



## abwhite86 (Jun 12, 2008)

good idea but wouldnt work the hormones to both branches go to the same plant


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 12, 2008)

abwhite86 said:


> good idea but wouldnt work the hormones to both branches go to the same plant



have you ever tried it?


----------



## marijuanajoe1982 (Jun 12, 2008)

You are right man, that is the only way to tell. Try it out for yourself if you want to know so badly. Also always have some kind of control for your experiment, just in case anyone's theories are proved true, it is much more believeable if you have something normal to compare it to. I guess it doesn't really apply here 'cause one side "is" the control/normal flowering side, but for most experiments this isn't the case. just my 2 cents. peace!


----------



## ocb123 (Jun 13, 2008)

So anyway coming back to the original thread.

What would be the advantage to splitting 1 plant into 2, rather than just growing 2 plants?

I'm not asking whether or not it can be done because it is 1 smart weed and I reckon there's every chance, just whether or not there's any point. 
I suppose that splitting 1 plant into multiple, smaller grow boxes rather than 1 large 1, would allow for lower wattage lights to be used giving same yield for less power maybe?

Anyhow how this is helpful in bringing us back on track.


----------



## MEANGREEN69 (Jun 25, 2008)

it whould the stress fuck out of that plant....the plant works as one ..think about it a lil more.... it mite make a hermy...


----------



## donkeyballs (Jun 25, 2008)

ya it would do some crazy shit to the plant thats not supposed to happen in nature.


----------



## t0k3s (Jun 26, 2008)

donkeyballs said:


> ya it would do some crazy shit to the plant thats not supposed to happen in nature.


And your evidence to support this theory is where


----------



## ceestyle (Jun 26, 2008)

so fdd, this experiment running right now? the world awaits ...


----------



## WormSlayer (Jun 26, 2008)

we should club together to buy fdd a mad ganja scientist award! 

i actually think this might work?


----------



## Highland Highs (Jun 26, 2008)

this wont work a plant is one whole thing itwould fuck it all up it would know where it was at and would maybe turn to male with the stress....heres an idea grow 2 plants lol


----------



## upinchronic1 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thatd be a very intresting experiment. Makes me reall curious. maby the veg side will start preflowers or something?? Be intresting to find out what id does to the buds.

But yeah ^^ it might just stress it and turn it into a big fat tranny haha


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 26, 2008)

upinchronic1 said:


> But yeah ^^ it might just stress it and turn it into a big fat tranny haha


hermaphrodite not tranny


----------



## upinchronic1 (Jun 26, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> hermaphrodite not tranny


facecious not plain


----------



## ceestyle (Jun 26, 2008)

probably intersex, not hermie. 

i love how 99% of the responses here are people saying what they think the plant would do ... based on ... nothing!


----------



## t0k3s (Jun 26, 2008)

ceestyle said:


> probably intersex, not hermie.
> 
> i love how 99% of the responses here are people saying what they think the plant would do ... based on ... nothing!


lol yeah i know,like i said in another post "you guys are talking out the wrong mouth"


----------



## Gilfman (Jun 26, 2008)

it would turn into a bi-sexual crossdressing dragqueen


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 26, 2008)

i don't think plants have brains that command them what to do.

it's been mentioned more than once that people DO cover one branch during veg to determine sex and it works.

you all are just making shit up. do it, then tell my what happens. until then just watch and learn.


----------



## mexiblunt (Jun 28, 2008)

Sounds like an experiment for me!!! hehehehe.!!!!!


----------



## ColaFarmer (Jun 28, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i don't know. does anyone?


Yes. Half the plant can be flowering and the other veg. I've seen pictures of an outdoor plant that had a street light on half of it (during night obviously). It produced flowers and (many, many) clones. 

So the concept works, now it is all about the technique.


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 28, 2008)

ColaFarmer said:


> Yes. Half the plant can be flowering and the other veg. I've seen pictures of an outdoor plant that had a street light on half of it (during night obviously). It produced flowers and (many, many) clones.
> 
> So the concept works, now it is all about the technique.


i saw the same pic. i'm sure it will work. i'm just waiting for mexiblunt to post the pics of it.  i don't have the room to set one up right now. i've been brainstorming ideas though.


----------



## herbologist (Jun 28, 2008)

A plant has memory and knows light cycles.All you are succeeding with is stress.Check out Soma's manuals.It is possibly to sustain a limb in vegative cycle but for only about 4 weeks.We our currently working on lowering number count through larger root base.I am currently at 4.5 pounds per 4x8 tray in 112 day cycle.We our shooting for 6 on this run with only 9 plants per tray,last run was 18 per tray. Be well, Be safe.Herbologist


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 28, 2008)

herbologist said:


> A plant has memory and knows light cycles.All you are succeeding with is stress.Check out Soma's manuals.It is possibly to sustain a limb in vegative cycle but for only about 4 weeks.We our currently working on lowering number count through larger root base.I am currently at 4.5 pounds per 4x8 tray in 112 day cycle.We our shooting for 6 on this run with only 9 plants per tray,last run was 18 per tray. Be well, Be safe.Herbologist



have you ever tried it?


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 28, 2008)

Didnt you say herbol that each 4x8 is lit by a 600 watt digi?


----------



## KAOSOWNER (Jun 28, 2008)

it will work!! feeding like previously mentioned will be the hard part., but what if you foliar feed with nitrogen the vegging side and just give the whole plant bloom nutes?


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 28, 2008)

KAOSOWNER said:


> it will work!! feeding like previously mentioned will be the hard part., but what if you foliar feed with nitrogen the vegging side and just give the whole plant bloom nutes?


I was thinking something along the same lines. or just bloom nutes for the whole thing, also using dutch master reverse on the flowering side.

Im also kinda thinking that the plant would need to be rather large to sustain bloom growth on one side while uneffecting the other side.

Just my guesses, 

I tell you what FDD I will sacrifice a mum in a couple weeks to do this for ya'll.


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 28, 2008)

KAOSOWNER said:


> it will work!! feeding like previously mentioned will be the hard part., but what if you foliar feed with nitrogen the vegging side and just give the whole plant bloom nutes?




there are simple ways around the feeding issues. like the one you just mentioned.  i feed my flowering plants full doses of nitrogen along with my bloom nutes. they love it.


----------



## KAOSOWNER (Jun 28, 2008)

very cool. cant wait for pictures of this one


----------



## mexiblunt (Jun 28, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i saw the same pic. i'm sure it will work. i'm just waiting for mexiblunt to post the pics of it.  i don't have the room to set one up right now. i've been brainstorming ideas though.


 If ganjagodess is willing to try it out that would be great. I would do it too but like fdd said don't have the setup right now. But have been also brainstorming ideas. Not to get too out of hand but would the plant deal with this better if it was say split 3 ways? I know that would mean either 3 lights chambers or a fancy way of switching barriers. Kinda along the lines of re-veg where two thirds of the plant will always be vegging. and the other flowering, 

This would bring it closer to the idea of black bagging using bag to go 12/12 to find sex. But how long do ppl do the bag thing? I would think just untill sex is shown. One place to start an experiment would maybe be to try flowering just a branch or two till finnish to see if after 4 weeks or so the un-bagged or 18/6 will start flowering as well?


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 28, 2008)

i banging some ideas around. it may become my winter "experiment".


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 28, 2008)

Its becoming my right now expieriment...

Ive got a bunch of lumber and poly laying around, so Im sayin why not.

Donating a extra seedling to the expieriment.

FDD and every one else reccomendations on how long I should veg this plant.

It will be HST'ed into becoming two seperate bushes.....

who knows maybe it will work right?


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 28, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Its becoming my right now expieriment...
> 
> Ive got a bunch of lumber and poly laying around, so Im sayin why not.
> 
> ...


it will work.  veg it for 2 months.


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 28, 2008)

Righty oh, see you guys in two months....


----------



## Gilfman (Jun 28, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Righty oh, see you guys in two months....


Wall-E was a good movie ... i enjoyed it


----------



## greatdayn19 (Jun 29, 2008)

thats a fucking stupid idea, its the same plants doing two completely different fucking stages of growth, are you on fucking meth or just some good green crack kief, this is weed not frankenstien and he grows weed with dead babies and bile infested fecies and pubis


----------



## fdd2blk (Jun 29, 2008)

greatdayn19 said:


> thats a fucking stupid idea, its the same plants doing two completely different fucking stages of growth, are you on fucking meth or just some good green crack kief, this is weed not frankenstien and he grows weed with dead babies and bile infested fecies and pubis



take your meds.


----------



## DWR (Jun 29, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> take your meds.


 Hey i think I would like to see this go down...... Cant wait for the Winter 

Allthough I do think that a plant can do it...... I mean why not ? It's like if you train one arm, you'll have on bigger arm after 2 months ^^ 

hehe


----------



## chronicprince (Jun 29, 2008)

if you do the ol school bonsai and leave the wire in you may be able to foliar feed ( which fdd love so much) without the nutrient passing back through the branches and the stalk. assuming that you forced flower at the time when the wires had grown tight... maybe hose clamps would be better so you could adjust them to revert back to veg... idk 
then you could feed the roots water and then spray nutes


----------



## ceestyle (Jun 29, 2008)

nutes don't initiate flowering, as far as I know. They simply support growth.


----------



## t0k3s (Jun 29, 2008)

ceestyle said:


> nutes don't initiate flowering, as far as I know. They simply support growth.


You are 100% correct..I always hear this shit about oh spike your phos up it will induce them to flower...Its all bullshit The plant flowers by seasonal changes not a crap load of nutes. + rep for you.


----------



## Properlike (Jun 29, 2008)

Not to bust this guys bubble but....why wouldn't you flatten the entire cubic space of the box and call it a scrog...way more bud...way less hassle...no offense...sounds cool...but no where near as effective as scrog, yield potency, bud size...all of it!!!!


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 29, 2008)

Properlike said:


> Not to bust this guys bubble but....why wouldn't you flatten the entire cubic space of the box and call it a scrog...way more bud...way less hassle...no offense...sounds cool...but no where near as effective as scrog, yield potency, bud size...all of it!!!!


I think your missing the point here actually..

Its just a scientific exp to see if a plant can flower and veg all on one plant.


----------



## wheelerman420 (Jun 29, 2008)

gg you doin this experiment? Hows it coming along?


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 29, 2008)

she's a 1 inch tall seedling right now....


----------



## Gilfman (Jun 29, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> she's a 1 inch tall seedling right now....


 thats a start ..


----------



## eric711 (Jun 30, 2008)

thats is one awsome highdea


----------



## shamegame (Jun 30, 2008)

MajesticWhelk said:


> But doesn't the whole plant operate uniformly?
> 
> Can one half of a plant be vegging and another half be flowering?


I think it's an all or nothing deal- either she's a-growin' or shes a-flowerin'.

Nice little concept though. Maybe someone will try it out.


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 30, 2008)

***UPDATE***

She's about 1.5 inches tall now.


----------



## Gilfman (Jun 30, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> ***UPDATE***
> 
> She's about 1.5 inches tall now.


 OMG!!! THE PROGRESSION!! IT"S KILLER!!!!!! WOOO!! .. keep her going! .. or try it on a male ..


----------



## shamegame (Jun 30, 2008)

Ok hold on a second. I just did some smokin' and thinkin', and a thought popped into my head. I am sure many of you have heard of using a plastic or paper bag over just one branch or branch tip to sex an entire plant? I think this box thing is just another adaption of that. And I believe the bag system does infact sex just that part of the plant, so the only logical conclusion would be that you could flower and veg seperate parts of the plant. 

Am I right ? wrong ? high ?


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 30, 2008)

Thats why Im doing the exp, Hoping I can mythbuster this one.


----------



## kiffytoi (Jun 30, 2008)

i wouldn't recommend trying to flower one half an veg the other. neither half will do as well as they could.


----------



## mexiblunt (Jun 30, 2008)

the nay sayers think after 1 month the plant will all flower


----------



## shamegame (Jun 30, 2008)

Seems to me that if using a bag works, a box would work also... there, I just saved us a month of waiting


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 30, 2008)

Actually 2 months worth of veg.... and at least a month of flowering is what I plan to do.


----------



## ceestyle (Jun 30, 2008)

kiffytoi said:


> i wouldn't recommend trying to flower one half an veg the other. neither half will do as well as they could.


you are saying this based on ....


----------



## ceestyle (Jun 30, 2008)

shamegame said:


> Seems to me that if using a bag works, a box would work also... there, I just saved us a month of waiting


ya, all the things you've mentioned have been brought up many times already . No point, just sayin' ...


----------



## dirtykidsnation (Jul 1, 2008)

Alright, busting this myth. I was looking through Jorge Cervantes Medical Grow book and actually, on page 174 there is an example where half a plant recieved light from a street lamp and the other half didn't during flowering period. Because of the street lamp, the half that got the light did not flower, while the half that stay shaded did actually flower. So yes, it would work to have one half in flowering and the other in vegging.


----------



## fdd2blk (Jul 1, 2008)

dirtykidsnation said:


> Alright, busting this myth. I was looking through Jorge Cervantes Medical Grow book and actually, on page 174 there is an example where half a plant recieved light from a street lamp and the other half didn't during flowering period. Because of the street lamp, the half that got the light did not flower, while the half that stay shaded did actually flower. So yes, it would work to have one half in flowering and the other in vegging.


did you even read this thread?


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jul 1, 2008)

its obvious he didnt.

*Update 1.75 inches tall.*


----------



## Gilfman (Jul 1, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> its obvious he didnt.
> 
> *Update 1.75 inches tall.*


 cmon .. at least update every tenth of an inch .. what's your problem?


----------



## ceestyle (Jul 1, 2008)

dirtykidsnation said:


> Alright, busting this myth. I was looking through Jorge Cervantes Medical Grow book and actually, on page 174 there is an example where half a plant recieved light from a street lamp and the other half didn't during flowering period. Because of the street lamp, the half that got the light did not flower, while the half that stay shaded did actually flower. So yes, it would work to have one half in flowering and the other in vegging.


ya, all the things you've mentioned have been brought up many times already . No point, just sayin' ...


----------



## t0k3s (Jul 1, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> did you even read this thread?


The first page atleast


----------



## outrunu (Jul 1, 2008)

Too funny...just read this entire thread, and I think you can use a bag and theres a picture of a plant in a street light X 10....lol.
GL.... I'm interested, as I can see both sides of the coin here. Fun to watch and see how this comes out.


----------



## tokezalot420 (Jul 3, 2008)

when i separated my flowering room into 2 parts there was a light leak and the part that got 18 hours stopped budding and just started growing like one leaflet leafs like really really loose bud it was a bud that started going back into veg state which sucked because it was the top of my plant and the bottom had nice tight nugs .. so i know that his idea would work for sure although you might get some hairs it wont compact like when buding also the nodes will stretch more .. if you started whole plant in that system from veg it should work good.. as for nutes use something like iguana bloom and grow mix like half and half .. may work


----------



## ColaFarmer (Jul 6, 2010)

Can't wait to see pictures of this "ganja". Let the creativity flow...


----------



## doc111 (Jul 7, 2010)

ColaFarmer said:


> Can't wait to see pictures of this "ganja". Let the creativity flow...


You* did* notice that nobody has posted in this thread in over two years, don't you?


----------



## ColaFarmer (Jul 7, 2010)

Nope didn't even pay any attention to that. This is one of the first threads I ever looked into when I joined 2 years ago... Saw it on my list of subscriptions and just threw in a quick post. Odds are someone had to of tried this... Since it is dead with no results, it should be tried again. It sounds like a fun idea and would be very cool to do. 

It will be ok, trust me...


----------



## fdd2blk (Jul 7, 2010)

i still want to know what would happen.


----------



## Dubjanka (Jul 7, 2010)

I honestly don't think that would work


----------



## Weedoozie (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm very curious about what would happen, fdd2blk you should do it!


----------



## ColaFarmer (Jul 8, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> i still want to know what would happen.


Once my Farmer's Market season is over I'm very serious about doing this. I think the best thing to do would build two boxes next to each other. Use neoprene inserts to prevent light leaks where the stems will come through. I know it will work, I'm more interested into how long it will work for... 

You'll be the first to know.


----------



## MEANGREEN69 (Aug 5, 2010)

im going to bump the thread in hopes that someone will give this a try....you could air layer the tip of a tall plant from one pot to a other. that way you can feed them veg 

and bloom. or ive seen a pot that had a divider in it. they feed one side nutes and the other side pure water.


----------



## Mr. Cheetah (Aug 6, 2010)

well... imo it will turn hermie or something. its still one plant... i dunno


----------



## BoomerBloomer57 (Aug 6, 2010)

I'd rather spend the time learning
how to grow a Sativa along the wall of my Flower Lab.
I know the veg time would be long and in the Veg
lab I'd have to be really creative to get it to at least 8 or 9 ft
before transfer,,,,,,

yeah, I'm gonna work on that dealio instead of this one,,,,,,

all the damn things twirling in my head and ya have to bring this thing up from the dead,,,,,,,,

thanks alot 

j/k

bb57

ftp


----------



## ColaFarmer (Aug 8, 2010)

Mr. Cheetah said:


> well... imo it will turn hermie or something. its still one plant... i dunno


Don't really see why it would turn "hermie"..? I've seen plants be harvested and re-veged 4 times. He did it a couple more time after that from what he said. 

It would have just as much of a chance to become hermaphrodite as any plant. 
**

On a side note, I'm thinking what would be the easiest way to build this setup, keeping in mind they are two(at least for the first try) separate chambers for growing/flowering, easy watering, and the ability of being able to trim the roots back. Thinking of maybe some kind of trap door idea for under the pot. Bottom will fall out that way the pot can come down, would still have to find a way to support the plant. Wont be easy any way but does sound fun.

Time will tell.


----------



## Gengar (Aug 11, 2010)

Yeah it is possible, im sure you can localise the flowering period. I thought up a similar idea were you could have a branch growing out a hole in the side of your veg chamber into a small 12/12 chamber. But your idea looks much better.
I didn't think about the nutrient side of things tho, I wouldn't know what to do there. Possibly alternating waterings of flower and veg food?
Nice idea. Big Ups


----------



## Gengar (Aug 11, 2010)

I wouldn't turn it back to 18 hrs tho, i seen reports of ppl doing this and it seems to stress the plant into a hermaphrodite and apparently lose potency.
You could always jus cut the budding half of the plant down, then grow half the remaining vegetive side into the 12/12 side, and repeat. Hope you get what I mean


----------



## ColaFarmer (Aug 11, 2010)

You'd still have to switch the lighting in order to get it to "re-veg", since the plant would most likely be hard to move. Nutrients would be simple, just use a 5-5-5, 7-7-7, 10-10-10. Something like that. And if you felt you needed to, you could always foliar feeding. The biggest issue that I can come up with would be trimming down the roots after a couple harvests. But most likely that issue would be solved when designing the structure.


----------



## dustylung (Aug 11, 2010)

Yes, half of the plant would bud and the other wouldn't if that happened, in Jorge Cervantes Marijuana Growers Bible there is a picture of just that situation where a plant outdoors was half lit up with a street lamp and the other half was shaded and continued to flower. Half bud half veg, its possible, but truly economical? No.


----------



## luckysonfirst (Aug 12, 2010)

It has to be uniform....This plant would be so stressed and hermaphroditic it would be a travesty to all things grown and smoked


----------



## RavenMochi (Aug 12, 2010)

luckysonfirst said:


> It has to be uniform....This plant would be so stressed and hermaphroditic it would be a travesty to all things grown and smoked


Well, I've committed more than a few abominations against God, nature, and all things holy, this wouldn't even rank up. Maybe u just lived a sheltered life? 
I think the idea has promise.....either that or how about this? you have box in the middle of the grow room lit 18/6, on either side, or all for sides have strips of mylar, kind of like the setup you see in restaurant freezers with the hanging plastic, and have them velcro at the bottom. outside of that box have the flowering light, that way you could choose which branch you wanted to flower by training it out of the box...would prob be the definition of inefficient though


----------



## ColaFarmer (Aug 12, 2010)

luckysonfirst said:


> It has to be uniform....This plant would be so stressed and hermaphroditic it would be a travesty to all things grown and smoked


Take your brain out of the box it resides in. Just because half of a plant is "Veg" and the other half is in "Flower" doesn't mean that it would be stressed or hermaphrodite.? Have to keep in mind, plants have tons of "brains" not just one. They multi-task very well. 

This isn't a debate about "would" it work. They science behind it shows it would work fine. The debate is the best way to go about doing such a thing.


----------



## Almost Eh Hero (Aug 12, 2010)

What would you do about the different nut requirements of each stage of growth?? Good idea, not feasible.


----------



## RavenMochi (Aug 12, 2010)

Almost Eh Hero said:


> What would you do about the different nut requirements of each stage of growth?? Good idea, not feasible.


actually two other posters offered solutions for that problem...you came to the show late...BUT NO REFUNDS...


----------



## ColaFarmer (Aug 13, 2010)

*POST #143*


ColaFarmer said:


> You'd still have to switch the lighting in order to get it to "re-veg", since the plant would most likely be hard to move. Nutrients would be simple, just use a 5-5-5, 7-7-7, 10-10-10. Something like that. And if you felt you needed to, you could always foliar feeding. The biggest issue that I can come up with would be trimming down the roots after a couple harvests. But most likely that issue would be solved when designing the structure.



*POST #148*


Almost Eh Hero said:


> What would you do about the different nut requirements of each stage of growth?? Good idea, not feasible.


*****

Love how people just come in and completely shoot it down. All I have to say is "Keep having fun growing in your closet..."


----------



## RavenMochi (Aug 13, 2010)

ColaFarmer said:


> *POST #143*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 &#8224;LOL&#8224; Is it just me, or does there seem to be ALOT of people that spend most of their time here doing just that?


----------



## BoomerBloomer57 (Aug 14, 2010)

Well some of are thinking and doing.

I just started a new experiment.

Gonna go fishing in my reservoir.

Yep.

Picked up 6 Goldfish today.

Got em home, gave em a temp home to adjust and have been lowering the #'s to 
match 3 of my res's.

Took my BlueLabs tri meter with. Checked the aquarium at Petco,

2000 ppm
7.1 ph
68f

I now have them in a container and the #'s are,
350 ppm
6.8 ph
68f

no floaters yet.

Tuesday I will put them into the reservoirs, should be adjusted by then.

Screw the box, I'm a bubblehead.
I'm thinking INSIDE the res.


bb57_


ftp


----------



## MEANGREEN69 (Aug 14, 2010)

nutes are going to kill the fish quick ..IMO


----------



## RavenMochi (Aug 14, 2010)

BoomerBloomer57 said:


> Well some of are thinking and doing.
> 
> I just started a new experiment.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for sharing with the group....


----------



## BoomerBloomer57 (Aug 14, 2010)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> nutes are going to kill the fish quick ..IMO


again,

we never go over 650 ppm.

They came out of water at 2000 ppm.

Guys, I drink the water out my reservoirs on a daily basis.

The major adjustment is the ph.

right now I have it down to 6.2 with no floaters

When it gets to 5.8, those fishes' go in.

Sit back and grab a chair, I'm doing it and posting pics of it.

Success or failure,
fortune smiles upon the bold,,,,,,,

bb57^
Goldfish^
madds_

ftp


----------



## fdd2blk (Aug 14, 2010)

link to the fish grow journal?


----------



## BoomerBloomer57 (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm going fishing in my reservoirs!

thats the one.

all fish are in one cooler now.


----------



## ColaFarmer (Aug 15, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> LOL Is it just me, or does there seem to be ALOT of people that spend most of their time here doing just that?


Yep... They think they know how to grow like a pro because they watch a few videos on "Youtube" or something. They forget it is a plant it seems like. I just want to ask them "If they put a plant in the ground outside or in a pot and just left it there with no nutrients. Do they really think it would die or something?"

People just need to stop being satisfied with the present, always want more and better, do experiments just for the hell of it, and never stop teaching yourself.


----------



## RavenMochi (Aug 15, 2010)

ColaFarmer said:


> Yep... They think they know how to grow like a pro because they watch a few videos on "Youtube" or something. They forget it is a plant it seems like. I just want to ask them "If they put a plant in the ground outside or in a pot and just left it there with no nutrients. Do they really think it would die or something?"
> 
> People just need to stop being satisfied with the present, always want more and better, do experiments just for the hell of it, and never stop teaching yourself.


I agree, I'm on my first indoor grow, and I've already tried 3 setups, and 3 outdoor setups I'd never tried. I've also been experimenting on the use of molasses, organic vs chem, and 12/12 from seed. I have a weakness for loving to experiment, hopefully it will serve me well in my grows...


----------



## joe weed smoker (Aug 15, 2010)

@OP: dont know if it would work because the hormones that enitiate flowering would flow thru both sides of the tree(?) But if you can get that built and growing I would love to hear your results with it!


----------



## JohneyGreenApple (Aug 15, 2010)

subscibed!


----------



## The sim's Bob Newbie (Aug 15, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> what if you build a box? put a big plant below it. just 1 plant. top it and train it so it grows thru the bottom of 2 separate boxes. have each side sealed separately. with enough veg time you could get 2 nice main stalks. 1 growing individual branches in each box. you could maybe start by vegging both sides. then put 1 side on 12/12. leave the other side on 18/6 and continue to veg. you will have to take cuttings from the veg side for the first month then let it regrow those sites for the second month. by this time the 12/12 side should be finished flowering. harvest that side leaving the leaves and branches and only remove the buds. put it back on 18/6. now flip the second side to 12/12 and repeat.  ........ View attachment 129412


Bloody hell...only 2 hours ago I was just thinking of something similar (well, ok - not QUITE the same, but I like the idea of this one!) HEY - just think if you did the whole "grafting" thing like they do to get pears growing on apple trees and stuff with it...hell, just think of the CLONES you could get from topping like that! Top once then you get 2 main stems which you can LST, then top/take a clone from the end of the 2 branches, THEN all the budsites grow up towards the light, more clones, etc.

God I just thought of/realised that one...ok, I know everyone already knows about it but it could work bloody brilliantly if you had the space (I took clones about a month ago just before flowering and now I've got a 2-prong fork instead of a single one...my only time topping I screwed up - glad to see I can ACTUALLY get it to work!) - having said that, with only 1 plant and root ball being kept alive for god-knows how long, it'd be a HELLUVA loss if you effed it up!


----------



## henery (Aug 15, 2010)

Well I once seen a pic of a plant by a street light just kidding that has been said like a hundred times in this thread lol!

I do have something to add to this that I think is important and missed in every post!

The type of plant will have allot to do with this I think a pure sativa will work best for this as the farther you go from the equator the less effect photo period has on a plant eg auto strains they are from the north and they would not work well with this!!!

So in short I think a staiva or mostly sativa is best for this experiment!!

Cool idea and what is life without learning!


----------



## Twistedfunk (Aug 15, 2010)

I bet a dollar that you'll get a nanner. I sure want to watch while you take my dollar though.


----------



## Twistedfunk (Aug 15, 2010)

the "fish grow" is called aquaponics and it works very well, in my experience. i've moved recently and started using soil instead and growth in all stages seems much slower. I used a hand feeding method as well as an auto bucket. The plants and the fish really enjoyed eachother. <3


----------



## RavenMochi (Aug 15, 2010)

The sim's Bob Newbie said:


> Bloody hell...only 2 hours ago I was just thinking of something similar (well, ok - not QUITE the same, but I like the idea of this one!) HEY - just think if you did the whole "grafting" thing like they do to get pears growing on apple trees and stuff with it...hell, just think of the CLONES you could get from topping like that! Top once then you get 2 main stems which you can LST, then top/take a clone from the end of the 2 branches, THEN all the budsites grow up towards the light, more clones, etc.
> 
> God I just thought of/realised that one...ok, I know everyone already knows about it but it could work bloody brilliantly if you had the space (I took clones about a month ago just before flowering and now I've got a 2-prong fork instead of a single one...my only time topping I screwed up - glad to see I can ACTUALLY get it to work!) - having said that, with only 1 plant and root ball being kept alive for god-knows how long, it'd be a HELLUVA loss if you effed it up!


I'm looking for it, but there is a youtube video of a mother plant with several diffrent strains grafted on, and was being suggested for those that can grow legal but are restricted to how many plants...


----------



## MEANGREEN69 (Aug 18, 2010)

henery said:


> Well I once seen a pic of a plant by a street light just kidding that has been said like a hundred times in this thread lol!
> 
> I do have something to add to this that I think is important and missed in every post!
> 
> ...


i agree 100% on the staiva


----------

