# DE vs SE vert



## redi jedi (Sep 8, 2015)

Would you switch to DE bulbs and fixtures from SE bare bulb vert? Growing trees, 1/1 light to plants, 8ft ceilings?


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## OGEvilgenius (Sep 8, 2015)

Yeah except it would require a lot of finagling given the way the fixtures are setup. Would be a PITA but worth it. There is a large increase in light and efficiency. I'm not sure if the lamps are designed to be hung vertically though - some aren't. If you wanted to experiment I'd love to watch it.


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## redi jedi (Sep 9, 2015)

OGEvilgenius said:


> Yeah except it would require a lot of finagling given the way the fixtures are setup. Would be a PITA but worth it. There is a large increase in light and efficiency. I'm not sure if the lamps are designed to be hung vertically though - some aren't. If you wanted to experiment I'd love to watch it.


I dont think there is a vertical DE bulb?


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## OGEvilgenius (Sep 9, 2015)

redi jedi said:


> I dont think there is a vertical DE bulb?


Oh I confused your question. Gavitas are pretty kick ass. That's about all I can tell ya. I switched mostly because I was tired of having to wear welding goggles in my room to avoid having noticeable spots whenever I had to actually work on plants (had 600s hung vertically).

The yields are good either way you go. You do need high ceilings to use gavitas properly. 8ft really minimum.


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## chuck estevez (Sep 9, 2015)

redi jedi said:


> I dont think there is a vertical DE bulb?


you could make this work
https://www.sunlightsupply.com/shop/bycategory/sun-system-de-reflectors/large-de-socket-kit-with-lamp-cord


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## pilsung (Sep 9, 2015)

that de socket screams to be used in a stadium half pipe. if bulbs are ok to use vertically i'm sure it would rock for that way as well. you'd obviously loose about 90* of the 360, but the increased light should more than make up for that.


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## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2015)

I've been told by a senior Gavita employee not to run the DE vertically. For whatever it's worth.


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## redi jedi (Sep 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I've been told by a senior Gavita employee not to run the DE vertically. For whatever it's worth.


I've heard the same.

Would you switch to DE from your current setup?


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2015)

redi jedi said:


> I've heard the same.
> 
> Would you switch to DE from your current setup?


No. I'm trying something else. Seen my 860W CDM lamps?


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## redi jedi (Sep 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> No. I'm trying something else. Seen my 860W CDM lamps?


Heard about em...these are a improved metal halide?


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2015)

redi jedi said:


> Heard about em...these are a improved metal halide?


Something like that.

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmea860.htm

http://growershouse.com/philips-cdm-860w-allstart-lamp-4000k

 
Now the problem with these, other than vertical only placement, is that they'll ONLY run on a magnetic thousand watt ballast set for MH.

Look at this pic;
 

See the vertical light and dark stripes? I chose this close-up because it's pretty, and because it shows that the interference pattern is based on time. The magnetic ballast oscillates at 60Hz from the wall, and do does the lamp. As the sine wave curve moves thru zero, the lamp actually goes dark momentarily. We see that in our pics because the photo chip scans at a different speed and picks it up.

The new 315W LEC lamps are the same thing as these, only Philips built a square wave low frequency ballast that solves this flickering issue and makes the little ones much more powerful/efficient per watt.

These CDM lamps are cheap to buy and run because of the cheap ballast and because they last a good three years. As a first lamp on the way to better and brighter things, it's an excellent choice.


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## Darth Vapour (Sep 12, 2015)

i find it ironic that they claim the 315 watt LEC lamp out yields a 600 watt hps if this was the case it would be a no brainer but with results it appears yet another lie in the growing community
lets break this down its mentioned that the 315 LEC works great in a 3 x 3 area lol yet a 600 watt HPS will cover 4 x 4 , 5x5 hell seen them cover 6 x 6 area hell so one only has to think that its another sales gimmic also i herd do not quote me on that why did phillips discontinue it ??
Everyone worries about efficiency, i never realized growing weed you need to be a tight wad 
personally for what its worth i think induction lighting would kill CMH in a heartbeat from what i am seeing close to 2 grams per watt anyways i been looking at LVP lighting possibly for massive clone and veg room one must stay on top of the times not fall behind
As for CMH funny run on magnetic ballasts yet they talk efficiency lol kinda funny like saying just because i got a mazda rx7 body but a 6000 hp motor i am still going to get good gas mileage hahaha Magnetic ballasts should be in museums and outlawed only donut growing i am going to be ever doing is donut bulbs


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## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> i find it ironic that they claim the 315 watt LEC lamp out yields a 600 watt hps if this was the case it would be a no brainer but with results it appears yet another lie in the growing community
> lets break this down its mentioned that the 315 LEC works great in a 3 x 3 area lol yet a 600 watt HPS will cover 4 x 4 , 5x5 hell seen them cover 6 x 6 area hell so one only has to think that its another sales gimmic also i herd do not quote me on that why did phillips discontinue it ??
> Everyone worries about efficiency, i never realized growing weed you need to be a tight wad
> personally for what its worth i think induction lighting would kill CMH in a heartbeat from what i am seeing close to 2 grams per watt anyways i been looking at LVP lighting possibly for massive clone and veg room one must stay on top of the times not fall behind
> As for CMH funny run on magnetic ballasts yet they talk efficiency lol kinda funny like saying just because i got a mazda rx7 body but a 6000 hp motor i am still going to get good gas mileage hahaha Magnetic ballasts should be in museums and outlawed only donut growing i am going to be ever doing is donut bulbs


Ok let's break this down; CDM and CMH and LEC are all about the same thing.

The lamps that run on magnetic ballasts are not any more efficient than other HID luminaries, they just have better CRI and better PAR.

However, Phillips put a ton of research into building a lamp that could handle a square wave output, as long as it was low frequency. The reason the 315W LEC lamps are better is because they don't flicker, they stay bright all the time. This makes them much more efficient than the same tech run on a magnetic ballast. I'm not here to defend the claim that they're equivalent to 600W HPS, but I bet they're worth at least 450W of it.


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