# 8 months, $10,000 and a whole lotta hard work=this...



## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

I built my own dedicated bespoke grow room in the back yard, and I have decided now is the time to share this work with RIU.

I dropped the best part of $10,000 on this new building: mostly because I wanted to future-proof the structure for other potential uses, and also because I pulled a city permit so everything is to code (ie. no cutting corners). The other reason is I am growing grade A top shelf, no filler and no cash crop, and I believe the finest product demands the finest facility. We building Ferraris here.

It has taken me 8 months from design through to completion, doing almost everything on my own. If you're interested in any of these steps, I'll show you how.

It has been incredibly hard work, I have sweated and I have bled for this, there have been some very tiny tears occasionally, and I have also thrown the towel in at least twice. But I got there and it is done now. As I complete the final phase of fitting out equipment there is HID light at the end of this tunnel, and I am about to commence my latest grow adventure.

I have ample pictures and descriptions of what I have done here and I am happy to share so long as there is interest. I will start brief to get this going. If anyone is interested in seeing more then please reply here and I will carry on.

I have just signed up here today to get involved in your community forum, as it has been incredibly helpful to me through planning my operation, and its time I added something back.

Peace all,


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

The journey began on Sketchup. I had to learn fresh how to use this software, and it really is quite brilliant (and free).

I knew what space I had to work with in my limited back yard, so everything was drafted based on real time measurements of this area. I got a bit carried away and ended up modeling a 3D render of my whole house, with accurate measurements of everything from the property lines to the height of fences. I didn't have to do this but once I start something its very difficult for me to stop, and now I have a real-time model of my place for no apparent reason.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Here's a few more screen grabs from the Sketchup model, showing a full texture render of the shed with the foundation extruded, a wire frame model, and a parallel projection of the stick frame.

I started by drawing a single 2x4 board and constructed everything from there.

The neat thing with Sketchup is you can work at any size very accurately: you could design the cogs of a wristwatch or a whole jumbo jet from scratch, and the software performs excellently across all scales. I used Sketchup again to design all the storage fittings and workspace I have built inside the structure so I knew exactly what I was doing before I cut a single board.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

From these models I was able to put together blueprints for the city to review for permitting. I drew up these blueprints using a Sketchup add-on called Layout (free in trial period), which pulls all the scale plans from the original 3D model and drafts cohesive and legible blueprints that are absolutely essential for any building project.

I could say a lot more about all the cool features in Sketchup, so feel free to ask if you have any questions. It really is an amazing tool to have if you can tolerate the learning curve.

 

I could also say a heck lot more about the city permit process, as that was painful. Bottom line where I live: they are not remotely interested in helping home builders as far as planning is concerned. I met with the city no less than a dozen times, each occasion presenting a revised draft, and each time they would send me home with a single petty correction and no more. This dragged on and on for well over a month. It did not need to be this way for what is effectively a shed, but I got there in the end so f**k those guys.

I had a much better experience with the inspector when he would come out to look at each phase; he always had advice and pointers for doing something better every time. A proper construction guy. Props to the inspector.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Here's some parallel projections of the end, the side the front section of the stick frame. The walls are traditional 2x4 stud framing and the roof is 2x6 with a 12degree pitch, all 16" on-center. The building is bolted to a concrete foundation with continuous 24" footings. The building is solid and provides 210sq ft of floor space with 10ft high ceilings.


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## Airwalker16 (Jul 17, 2016)

Way cool man can't wait to see some final pics ! I recommend leds though


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## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jul 17, 2016)

Looks pretty cool so far man


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

It all started with cutting through the existing concrete deck, trenching out for the new footings, and forming for the 8" concrete stem wall that the walls would sit on. These were easily some of the worst jobs of the whole project: cutting and jack-hammering concrete is back breaking and messy, and I hit a water pipe when trenching and flooded the yard until I could stem the flow (it took days). Setting forms for the concrete took me weeks as the grade wasn't level and it all had to be sufficiently staked to avoid blow-outs when pouring. Plus i'm just a DIY-er, not a construction pro, so figuring things out and learning, adjusting and fixing takes time.

I called in a truck to pump 6 yards of concrete into this new foundation, before screeding off and pushing in the bolts that would hold the walls.

Throwing up 2x4 walls is real quick and pretty basic stuff: I had it framed in a day. I learned almost everything about this from a carpenter dude called Larry Haun - check out his vids on YouTube where he frames a whole house. Mad skills by a super cool guy. Shame he's dead now.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Oh and the far wall was just 6" from the property line fence, which meant no space in which to work. That wall had to be framed, sheathed, sided and stained all before it could be lifted into place and bolted down. I've never seen that wall since, but I hear my neighbors really enjoy their view of it


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

One wall is extended upwards by a couple of feet to create the single slope roof, and rafters finish off the framing.

Frame is then sheathed to create shear walls and close it all in nice and tight.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Structure is wrapped in building paper, and all seams are caulked. Caulking isn't normally done this way in construction but I wanted to seal all and any air/vapor leaks.


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## qwizoking (Jul 17, 2016)

nice shed bruh


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> nice shed bruh


cheers


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Siding panels going on.



And stained. I swear it didn't look this red on the can. Oh well its up now and what a shitty task staining is too.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Shingle courses on the roof. Honestly anyone can do this.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Custom built door, stained and lacquered. At this stage the building doubled as a great workshop, and I was so dialed in with all these new construction skills I kept finding, I mostly forgot why I was building it all for.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Studs cored for electrical runs and work boxes mounted.



Quantity and location of all outlets was carefully planned based on chosen grow room specs. Each of the two rooms ran a dedicated 120v 20amp circuit for a series of regular outlets, and also a dedicated 240v circuit for lighting, with outlets mounted on the ceilings where I wanted them.



12gauge Romex runs between the boxes and I left myself markings on the wall so I would remember in which order the circuit was to run. With this many outlets it can start to get confusing for a newb.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Custom built door, stained and lacquered. At this stage the building doubled as a great workshop, and I was so dialed in with all these new construction skills I kept finding, I mostly forgot why I was building it all for.
> 
> View attachment 3734995


It's a great hobby, isn't it? And you haven't even dipped a seed yet? You know it's gonna be a minute for those little ones to grow, so I'm wondering where the head start room is?


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

A double pole 80amp breaker from the main board feeds this sub panel in the structure, neatly recessed between studs by the front door. I worked hard to keep all wiring neat and tidy and circuits labelled correctly.

The breakers feed x2 120v outlet circuits, x2 240v lighting circuits, and a dedicated 240v circuit for AC.

I would NOT recommend anyone randomly start working on electrical wiring in this way, but that being said I did have to learn from scratch myself and I was painstakingly thorough in my research. For me it wasn't enough to know what goes where, I had to understand why in order to fully grasp the concept, and crucially the danger posed by electrical systems. I did not touch a thing or buy a single switch until I understood this to the best of my ability. I repeat: DO NOT FUCK AROUND WITH ELECTRICITY.


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## qwizoking (Jul 17, 2016)

i kinda forgot already from your other thread
but yiuve been growing how long?

best way to get wet is to put both feet in and fall huh?

i dont think thats the phrase


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's a great hobby, isn't it? And you haven't even dipped a seed yet? You know it's gonna be a minute for those little ones to grow, so I'm wondering where the head start room is?


Sadly I have no such room, but seeds are popping whilst I hang the lights right about now so we're good over here


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## b4ds33d (Jul 17, 2016)

curious why you didn't use 2x6 for your walls for more insulation? looks like you did for the roof?


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> i kinda forgot already from your other thread
> but yiuve been growing how long?
> 
> best way to get wet is to put both feet in and fall huh?
> ...


are you suggesting i'm destined for failure?


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

b4ds33d said:


> curious why you didn't use 2x6 for your walls for more insulation? looks like you did for the roof?


[1] Maximizing floor space in a tight footprint, [2] R19 insulation in 2x6 isn't a big enough jump from R13 in 2x4 to offset the additional cost, [3] and its not hugely necessary in this climate, and plus [4] I had lots of 2x4 studs already.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Here's the R13 insulation batts loaded into the wall cavities. R19 between the rafters in the ceiling.


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## qwizoking (Jul 17, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> are you suggesting i'm destined for failure?


thats what you got from my post?

nobody is destined for failure, weed isnt hard to grow


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> thats what you got from my post?
> 
> nobody is destined for failure, weed isnt hard to grow


Agreed.


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## qwizoking (Jul 17, 2016)

maybe i missed it..
what seeds you got?
grow method, fert environment lights?
or yiu still getting to it in your progress posts


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> maybe i missed it..
> what seeds you got?
> grow method, fert environment lights?
> or yiu still getting to it in your progress posts


You thirsty. Lol. Quick overview, just for you: IndicaOG's only (Bubba, Skywalker, GSC), closed environment in coco with General Hydro's flora trio, x4 Gavita 750DE's with 3-ton AC + scrogging, added CO2 obv, x2 Mars II 300 LED panels for veg.


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## tangerinegreen555 (Jul 17, 2016)

Be looking forward to seeing more from your new building...nice construction job.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

tangerinegreen555 said:


> Be looking forward to seeing more from your new building...nice construction job.


Thanks, i'll keep it coming then!


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

I rented a drywall lift to help me get the sheets onto the ceiling and the high walls. This thing is essential when working alone like I was.

You can also see where i've used expanding foam to fill any gaps in the wall that might leak air/moisture.



Drywall up and seams/screws taped. I didn't bother with second/third coats as the wall surface isn't important to me at this stage. I can pick this job up later if for some reason one day this ends up not being a grow room.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Here's my janky ass work station and fittings built into the veg room.



And all painted flat white like the rest of the room, using a latex-based primer with mold/fungus resistance.

You can see I have a small space for cutting clones, writing journal etc, adjacent to the sub panel.



Ample storage built with scrap siding finishes off these cupboard doors. I also built in a little drawer for small tools and pens etc. Minor detail but it has a lovely sliding action, lol. Something small like this feels like an achievement after building big for so many months now.



First lights hung were the 4ft T5's in the 2-level nursery. Its getting close now.


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## qwizoking (Jul 17, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> You thirsty. Lol. Quick overview, just for you: IndicaOG's only (Bubba, Skywalker, GSC), closed environment in coco with General Hydro's flora trio, x4 Gavita 750DE's with 3-ton AC, added CO2 obv, x2 Mars II 300 LED panels for veg.


sorru man i had to go puke again

sounds cool , not how i would do it personally and never grown those particular strains but good luck


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> sorru man i had to go puke again
> 
> sounds cool , not how i would do it personally and never grown those particular strains but good luck


great well thanks for reading and contributing anyways


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## qwizoking (Jul 17, 2016)

sure thing..anytime you need plant help, pharm/med/chemistry, or drug fueled entertainment just tag me up... @sign before my name


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## abe supercro (Jul 17, 2016)

how about air-venting, or is this an entirely closed system?

edit- ok, i see now, closed system..


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> sorru man i had to go puke again
> 
> sounds cool , not how i would do it personally and never grown those particular strains but good luck


Be nice, lol


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

abe supercro said:


> how about air-venting, or is this an entirely closed system?


yes, totally closed. 36k of cooling should do the trick. I have a dehumi to throw in if necessary but i'm gonna see how the AC handles it first.


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## ttystikk (Jul 17, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Here's my janky ass work station and fittings built into the veg room.
> 
> View attachment 3735034
> 
> ...


Nice work! Can't wait to see what you do with your new space.


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## ruwtz (Jul 17, 2016)

Here's the condensers feeding a 1-ton in veg and 2-ton in flower. The main lug on the outside wall splits the single 240v 30amp feed into two 240v 15amp breakers for disconnect.

You can also see the edge of an outdoor socket there bottom right, fed off the flower room 120v circuit. I can always use a socket outdoors for running chainsaws, Sybians etc, so this is a small bonus.



Condensers are wired, line sets are run through the walls, air handlers are mounted on the inside, and condensate drains to a rain barrel on the opposite end for my garden patch. 

At this stage I am waiting for my HVAC guy to come and suck the lines, test for leaks etc. This part is not DIY stuff as far as i'm concerned so i'm stuck until he comes. Hopefully this week and I can crack on hanging lights etc.

In the meantime i'm building drain tables, installing wall fans and basically pottering around waiting for seeds to pop.

If there is interest here I will keep this thread updated.


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## CoralMafia (Jul 18, 2016)

Nice job man soon your room will look like this, nice and full. I'm jealous, I wish I had a dedicated room, unfortunately I'm stuck with tents but hey I make do,lol


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

CoralMafia said:


> Nice job man soon your room will look like this, nice and full. I'm jealous, I wish I had a dedicated room, unfortunately I'm stuck with tents but hey I make do,lol
> View attachment 3735284


build it and they will come


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## Uberknot (Jul 18, 2016)

Wow!! that is nice!


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## ReddEyez (Jul 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> build it and they will come


Definitely interested, fantastic job man! Looking forward to following along. Good luck and welcome to RIU!


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## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2016)

CoralMafia said:


> Nice job man soon your room will look like this, nice and full. I'm jealous, I wish I had a dedicated room, unfortunately I'm stuck with tents but hey I make do,lol
> View attachment 3735284


That's a lot of lenses...


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## Tim Fox (Jul 18, 2016)

CoralMafia said:


> Nice job man soon your room will look like this, nice and full. I'm jealous, I wish I had a dedicated room, unfortunately I'm stuck with tents but hey I make do,lol
> View attachment 3735284


buds everywhere I do declare!


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## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> are you suggesting i'm destined for failure?


No. He meant new growers are like swimmers. Normally dip a toe in the water. You jumped in head first. All out. Not that there's a problem with that.

Nice job on the shed.


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> No. He meant new growers are like swimmers. Normally dip a toe in the water. You jumped in head first. All out. Not that there's a problem with that.
> 
> Nice job on the shed.


cheers. This ain't my first rodeo, but it is the first indoors I can fully call my own. I acknowledge the risk, but I believe in hard work and good spirit. I'm basically a Quaker without the beard. Or the Quaking.


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## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> cheers. This ain't my first rodeo, but it is the first indoors I can fully call my own. I acknowledge the risk, but I believe in hard work and good spirit. I'm basically a Quaker without the beard. Or the Quaking.


I like your attention to detail. That is quite possibly the best trait for a grower to have, because it's that one fucking thing that got away/was caught in time that determines success or failure of the run.


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I like your attention to detail. That is quite possibly the best trait for a proper to have, because it's that one fucking thing that got away/was caught in time that determines success or failure of the run.


100% this


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## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I like your attention to detail. That is quite possibly the best trait for a grower to have, because it's that one fucking thing that got away/was caught in time that determines success or failure of the run.


That the one thing the military beat into my head.

The op sure has done a good job.


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## Big smo (Jul 18, 2016)

Wow this is great! I can send a link to you about my build I just recently finished. Nearly the same size and same setup. I'm a builder by trade and built dozens of rooms for others. If you need any advice feel free to ask away. A few things I did differently was I didn't use felt for the exterior vapor barrier because the sheathing needs to breath. In a sealed room it's almost mandatory. I went with roxul insulation which is better for noise and anti-organic so mold can't grow within it and moisture drywall for dealing with high humidity. Not trying to cut you or your room up. It does look great.


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## Big smo (Jul 18, 2016)

Another thing. Helpful idea. In my veg room I pitched the floor and put down a rubber membrane with a center drain. This is also my watering/mixing room with water storage. If shit hits the fan I know I'm protected. When I water I just let it takes it corse and head outside. 

In my flower room I do soil but hate vacuuming out trays so I built a frame to hold 3 3x3 flood tables that hold my 12 plants. The frame is raised on casters, little extra storage and allowed me to run drains to the outdoors. Huge time saver! 

Shelves and storage is key! Exiting the room to grab stuff or to clean pots isn't in my comfort zone. I like to stay inside when I need to work. Also a comfy chair to reply on riu! Lol for security I made a drying cabinet. Raised panels from the floor to help air circulation. It's size is 4x8 and 7 feet tall with a locking home made door. If they get in they have to get in again to get the goods. Also picked up 2 drop can cameras from Home Depot that have an app that links to my phone. A door alarm and a big ass 12lb mini Rottweiler. I live in a good neighborhood but hiu never know. Gotta think of everything. Sorry to bombard.


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

Big smo said:


> Another thing. Helpful idea. In my veg room I pitched the floor and put down a rubber membrane with a center drain. This is also my watering/mixing room with water storage. If shit hits the fan I know I'm protected. When I water I just let it takes it corse and head outside.
> 
> In my flower room I do soil but hate vacuuming out trays so I built a frame to hold 3 3x3 flood tables that hold my 12 plants. The frame is raised on casters, little extra storage and allowed me to run drains to the outdoors. Huge time saver!
> 
> Shelves and storage is key! Exiting the room to grab stuff or to clean pots isn't in my comfort zone. I like to stay inside when I need to work. Also a comfy chair to reply on riu! Lol for security I made a drying cabinet. Raised panels from the floor to help air circulation. It's size is 4x8 and 7 feet tall with a locking home made door. If they get in they have to get in again to get the goods. Also picked up 2 drop can cameras from Home Depot that have an app that links to my phone. A door alarm and a big ass 12lb mini Rottweiler. I live in a good neighborhood but hiu never know. Gotta think of everything. Sorry to bombard.


All of this is great, thank you for sharing! I'd love to see your build for sure.

I like your idea of a rubber membrane, however I have solid concrete floor that was the existing grade before I dug for this new structure. It has settled over the years and now has a slight gradient; I was gonna level it off during the pour but actually I decided it would be beneficial for drainage.

I have since built my own custom flood tables lined with 6mil poly which I can drain to waste after watering. This waste goes into my regular garden outside so nothing is lost. I'm probably gonna post about this separately in case anyone is interested in a how-to.

I know exactly what you mean about not wanting to exit: when I go to work and that door closes I want to stay inside and get on with it. Particularly pressing with a closed environment, but its also about space and how to best use it.

I have yet to think of my ideal solution for drying so if you have any more to say about yours then i'm all ears.

Peace and thanks again.


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## qwizoking (Jul 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I have yet to think of my ideal solution for drying s



you seem to atleast have spent time researching..awesome
you happen to have read about the cure and dry, i know youve grown a couple seasons outdoors you said.. but you know..
i mean obviously im biased but im.oretty awesome

i cant really advise the construction aspect just the scientific.. if your looking for anything there to better plan your area


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

This is the flood table I built for veg today, measuring just shy of 4x8ft. It fits my room dimensions and working height perfectly. When you build from scratch you can control every last detail, and thats how I like to work. Plus I saved a bunch $$$. 

I'll post a how-to, probably in the wrong place.


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## Big smo (Jul 18, 2016)

For the floor you can buy pitched ridgid foam if your interested in doing it. Different situation but I have done it in the past. 

Run 1 1/2 PVC and a normal shower drain connected to a 90 degree fitting.across the floor horizontally. Fit the pitched foam around the PVC and do one layer of plywood glued above that. Then rubber roofing over the plywood and sandwiched between the 2 piece drain. 

For the drying closet I used poplar plywood. 30 a sheet from Home Depot. I use it often with building cabinets. Very stable and keeps its shape. Basically I built a closet in the corner of my flower room with it. Inside I ran eye bolt/screws at the heights I felt fit. Then ran series of plastic coated wire through the eyelets. The door was just4 cuts in the already standing face of the cabinet. Few hinges and a lock. The bottom I did in screen for air flow and to catch anything that drops. 

One kinda different thing I did was ran sort of a corner board to the floor for support from the same wood but elevated the panels 2 inches so air could flow upwards while the door remained closed.


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> you seem to atleast have spent time researching..awesome
> you happen to have read about the cure and dry, i know youve grown a couple seasons outdoors you said.. but you know..
> i mean obviously im biased but im.oretty awesome
> 
> i cant really advise the construction aspect just the scientific.. if your looking for anything there to better plan your area


I had my dry/cure dialed in for outdoors, but this is another scale and my options have changed, so i'm working on a practical arrangement using available space within the new structure. I like the look of those fabric hanging baskets that look like they might be for laundry. You seen those?


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

Big smo said:


> For the floor you can buy pitched ridgid foam if your interested in doing it. Different situation but I have done it in the past.
> 
> Run 1 1/2 PVC and a normal shower drain connected to a 90 degree fitting.across the floor horizontally. Fit the pitched foam around the PVC and do one layer of plywood glued above that. Then rubber roofing over the plywood and sandwiched between the 2 piece drain.
> 
> ...


Sweet setup, I like it. Good work.


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## Big smo (Jul 18, 2016)

Behind the louvered doors is my veg room with the rubber floor. The walls I did in that reflective bubble insulation. It goes over the rubber and makes the entire room waterproof. Light hanging I used 3/4 copper pipe with brackets to attach it to the ceiling. 


 
The short door to the left is my hidden access from the shed. Below is the opposite side. The level hides the hinges and there is a pull rope that unlatches the lock to get in. My property is set up where the main door is completely hidden and whenI get a visitor the shed doors can remain open. I have had a few inside the shed for long periods of time and no one knew a thing.


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## qwizoking (Jul 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I had my dry/cure dialed in for outdoors, but this is another scale and my options have changed, so i'm working on a practical arrangement using available space within the new structure. I like the look of those fabric hanging baskets that look like they might be for laundry. You seen those?


the only problem is the 2 environments are different. yiu seem like you want perfection afterall.. a space within your space lol could work
your grow has added co2, for drying yiuwant as much o2 as possible.. and around 60rh.. 65-72or 3 °f. you also need good air exchange, 5-700cfm

ideally taking a solid 2 weeks to dry

this is optimal for your "cuttings" to facilitate gas exchange and break down beautifully witj the least amount of bacterial activity .


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## qwizoking (Jul 18, 2016)

i only give a few helpful or intelligent posts a day..and ive already given 2 , thatvone kinda counts as 3 so ...yiu know, i dont wanna waste a good one if yiu arent gonna utilize lol


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> i only give a few helpful or intelligent posts a day..and ive already given 2 , thatvone kinda counts as 3 so ...yiu know, i dont wanna waste a good one if yiu arent gonna utilize lol


Take it easy then. Don't bust a vessel or anything. Roll us another fat one.


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## qwizoking (Jul 18, 2016)

its a joke bruh...



got me a drink and a green crack x s.a landrace thats amazing.. an ester bomb thats smells strongky of isoamyl acetate


pretty sweet


hey man if you dont want any advice thats cool,


most of the peiple that have posted in this thread, the more well known members can all attest to my advice




also my bad with all the dots


besides, i highly doubt your dry/cure was dialed in , in your short time growing. i know the peiple that posted here have all been growing 10+yrs or am i wrong whitebb, ttystick idk who else posted.
im just getting dialed in 15yrs later and pull +20lbs every 2 weeks..fully automated
but like i said in another thread.. theres good enough and theres absolute perfection.. what a couole degrees makes in germ..how some of us get +90% fems on reg seeds varied sstock etc

anyway


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> its a joke bruh...
> 
> View attachment 3735888
> 
> ...


I get it, and I appreciate it, despite the tone. Moms would say "keep being you" or some other daffiness.

Drink up, thats a fine dog you got there.


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## qwizoking (Jul 18, 2016)

sorry bout any tone man.. i guess thats just my ways of talkin..

im.feelin pretty sweet, promise i aint tryin to get some type o
f way..


oh and i edited a lil late


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## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> its a joke bruh...
> View attachment 3735888
> 
> got me a drink and a green crack x s.a landrace thats amazing.. an ester bomb thats smells strongky of isoamyl acetate
> ...


Well it was good enough for me, which is all that really counts. I'm onto new adventures now, which seems to include being patronized. On the internet. Who'd have thought?! Lolz


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## Big smo (Jul 18, 2016)

I cure mine for 2 weeks. One week hanging and one week in jars. Complete darkness. Opening the jars for a few minutes every dah. I don't smoke but was told it's perfect. The science behind it is far past what I need to make money.


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## qwizoking (Jul 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Well it was good enough for me, which is all that really counts. I'm onto new adventures now, which seems to include being patronized. On the internet. Who'd have thought?! Lolz


patronized?
sounds like you should maybe smoke some of that herb man...





as for other dude,, ya money will still come.. you coukd sell with 1 week dry and no cure and still pull in paper

i ha assumed he was about something more..
jack daniels outsells the best.. so yiu know, its your chosen demographic
how you choose to operate.. talk about deja vu




put all that time effort and money into a grow shed but dont oay attention to them most important aspects, the dry/cure can make or break your sweet sweet herb. i hope you atleast kniw wgat each specific nute does, as far as terps burn qualities etc...
or maybe youve never puffed on true dank to care.. why just pick one area to do your best if you want true dank that surpasses the rest
kinda sad man


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

TY


qwizoking said:


> patronized?
> sounds like you should maybe smoke some of that herb man...
> 
> 
> ...


The irony is deafening.


----------



## MeJuana (Jul 18, 2016)

Great work building the room it looks totally pro.. That much insulation is going to pay for itself in dividends


----------



## qwizoking (Jul 18, 2016)

why do you seem so aggressive?
no,
unwilling to educate, care about the end product?? no thats not it either

idk the proper word or phrase...

hopefully you can get some half decent smoke man... fingers crossed for you


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

Big smo said:


> Behind the louvered doors is my veg room with the rubber floor. The walls I did in that reflective bubble insulation. It goes over the rubber and makes the entire room waterproof. Light hanging I used 3/4 copper pipe with brackets to attach it to the ceiling.
> View attachment 3735871
> 
> View attachment 3735876
> ...


Trap door covert special! This is awesome!


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> why do you seem so aggressive?
> no,
> unwilling to educate, care about the end product?? no thats not it either
> 
> ...


I'm really not being aggressive, to me you just seem like one of those... people. I'm not about to roll over for someone jumping down everything I have to say with bigger better badder, not today/not any day. I guess its your style and thats cool, whatever... heck I was warned the minute I arrived... but i'm not really here to be shot down or scoffed at. I'm not a newb, don't treat me like one.

Maybe you should just go and puke again or whatever it is you do when someone bores you?

I'm happy to learn, hell there's always plenty to learn, especially from fine teachers and strong whisky. Sounds like you've already learned everything possible, so all's left is the whisky.


----------



## tonygreen (Jul 18, 2016)

Looks good man.
One thing to look out for is those veg racks stacked, buddy of mine was losing seedlings till it was found the lower t-5 rack was heating up the soil on top of it.
Gratz on a beauty of a space. You did a great job.

Im not sure I read through but might have missed it, what kind of lighting do ya plan in flower?


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 18, 2016)

tonygreen said:


> Looks good man.
> One thing to look out for is those veg racks stacked, buddy of mine was losing seedlings till it was found the lower t-5 rack was heating up the soil on top of it.
> Gratz on a beauty of a space. You did a great job.
> 
> Im not sure I read through but might have missed it, what kind of lighting do ya plan in flower?


Ah, fair point about the heat conducting upwards from the lamp. To be fair i'll be using the lower one for seeds and the top will be for clones and not typically at the same time, at least not at this stage. But temps I will for sure watch out for, thanks.

Gavitas 750DE x4 in flower, upgradeable to 5 if I need it later. I have the headroom for these lights, i'm impressed with all the features, and I got a good price on them with the EL1 controller.


----------



## qwizoking (Jul 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> ... but i'm not really here to be shot down or scoffed at. I'm not a newb, don't treat me like one.
> 
> Maybe you should just go and puke again or whatever it is you do when someone bores you?
> 
> I'm happy to learn, hell there's always plenty to learn, especially from fine teachers and strong whisky.



you said a few cycles..thats great, i grew outdoors in tx for many years longer..since i was a freshman in hs actually, i just say ~15 years professional...its easy to grow fairly healthybherb. not hard atvall actually butvif you wantbto converse with actual experts about the true ins and out, your very much a newb.. humble yourslef and yiud do better 


nah, dont need to puke today, i made some acid yesterday and whipped up about 40 mg of morohine...bit as with natural substances it was more like 80mg and my tolerance isnt that high..especially when combined with my "acid"


as for whisky, shit man this stuff is deadly, im.used to standard 40 bit i honestly cant tell the cask strength is 56 till im already outa there.. oretty damn good. not personally my style or flavor preference but i can.appreciate the glenlivet line anyway 
personally im a fan of quality rum, which expect for.cettcircles is unheard of.. butvrum can be many times more complex than any scotch


----------



## Big smo (Jul 19, 2016)

Let the man build and talk about it. 

The best way to learn isn't to listen to someone who is coming off cocky. It's to do it, fuck it up and hopefully be smart enough to make adjustments.


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## ruwtz (Jul 19, 2016)

Big smo said:


> Let the man build and talk about it.
> 
> The best way to learn isn't to listen to someone who is coming off cocky. It's to do it, fuck it up and hopefully be smart enough to make adjustments.


THANK YOU. Couldn't have said it better.


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## MeJuana (Jul 19, 2016)

If ruwtz wanted to just build and talk then he wouldn't ignore the positive posters favoring the trolls. It's obvious you want to be trolled so enjoy.


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## ruwtz (Jul 19, 2016)

MeJuana said:


> If ruwtz wanted to just build and talk then he wouldn't ignore the positive posters favoring the trolls. It's obvious you want to be trolled so enjoy.


Eh?


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## whitebb2727 (Jul 19, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I get it, and I appreciate it, despite the tone. Moms would say "keep being you" or some other daffiness.
> 
> Drink up, thats a fine dog you got there.


Qwizo is good people. He just seems abrasive.


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 19, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Qwizo is good people. He just seems abrasive.


I'm sure. I guess I don't respond well to people who seem abrasive by actually being abrasive. Or braggadocio. I'm here to find a community, not a dad.

First reply I got on another thread told me to ignore this guy, but i'm not about that. I can roll with it. I'm sure he's a sweetheart really.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 19, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I'm sure. I guess I don't respond well to people who seem abrasive by actually being abrasive. Or braggadocio. I'm here to find a community, not a dad.
> 
> First reply I got on another thread told me to ignore this guy, but i'm not about that. I can roll with it. I'm sure he's a sweetheart really.


There a few that will test you a little here. Its to be expected. You are clearly skilled and intelligent. 


I agree with big smo that it is about getting in there and doing it to learn but its also about bouncing ideas around.

The thing about the floor drain you might have done if the ideas were bounced before the concrete was poured.

Always be a sponge, even an asshole might teach you something.


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 19, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> There a few that will test you a little here. Its to be expected. You are clearly skilled and intelligent.
> 
> 
> I agree with big smo that it is about getting in there and doing it to learn but its also about bouncing ideas around.
> ...


Good advice! Believe me, i'm the spongiest of sponges, with the squarest of pants.


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## whitebb2727 (Jul 19, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Good advice! Believe me, i'm the spongiest of sponges, with the squarest of pants.


Sponge Bob is a great show baked.


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 19, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Sponge Bob is a great show baked.


Rack that up along with Superjail and Mr Pickles and you may as well swap your head for spaghetti.


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## whitebb2727 (Jul 19, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Rack that up along with Superjail and Mr Pickles and you may as well swap your head for spaghetti.


I like foster home for imaginary friends.

I like the classic Looney tunes like foghorn leghorn.

Classics like woody woodpecker.


----------



## texasjack (Jul 19, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I'm sure. I guess I don't respond well to people who seem abrasive by actually being abrasive. Or braggadocio. I'm here to find a community, not a dad.
> 
> First reply I got on another thread told me to ignore this guy, but i'm not about that. I can roll with it. I'm sure he's a sweetheart really.


It clogs up your thread so the only one it hurts is you. Nice build though.


----------



## fandango (Jul 19, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Here's the condensers feeding a 1-ton in veg and 2-ton in flower. The main lug on the outside wall splits the single 240v 30amp feed into two 240v 15amp breakers for disconnect.
> 
> You can also see the edge of an outdoor socket there bottom right, fed off the flower room 120v circuit. I can always use a socket outdoors for running chainsaws, Sybians etc, so this is a small bonus.
> 
> ...


was the ac service call guy about 200 bucks or so?


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## ruwtz (Jul 19, 2016)

fandango said:


> was the ac service call guy about 200 bucks or so?


We never discussed price but that might be a reasonable ballpark for what I need doing. Anyway this fool has disappeared so i'm onto another guy now.


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## 806KING (Jul 19, 2016)

CoralMafia said:


> Nice job man soon your room will look like this, nice and full. I'm jealous, I wish I had a dedicated room, unfortunately I'm stuck with tents but hey I make do,lol
> View attachment 3735284


hell yeah nice bro!!!


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## Big smo (Jul 19, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> We never discussed price but that might be a reasonable ballpark for what I need doing. Anyway this fool has disappeared so i'm onto another guy now.


Ac techs here usually charge around 200-300 per hour. Especially when dealing with mini's the pre charged ones with a refrigerant gauge that monitors the levels is an amazing idea.


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## ruwtz (Jul 23, 2016)

In the end I had another guy come in and finish the AC, and now we are up and running.

Workstation sharing the blurple veg room. Can never have enough storage.

 

I got a deal on a pair of MarsHydro II 300 LED panels and I hope they're sufficient for this 4x8 veg table. I can always throw in another one or a T5.

 

Flower room w x4 Gavita 750's:

 

First beans are popped and showing through the cubes: 24 Carat aka Kosher Tangie to start, Platinum Cookies on the way and Blueberry for the wife.

We go again.


----------



## Big smo (Jul 23, 2016)

Might just be the picture but it looks like you used cheap paint. Sorry man I had to. Rooms looking magnificent!! Be proud of it bro. Your hard work has paid off.


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## ruwtz (Jul 23, 2016)

Ha ha well actually it's just Kilz primer slapped down over just one run of drywall mud. Didn't bother with 2nd/3rds as the walls don't need finishing for this use. 

Some corners can be cut after all it seems. 

Well spotted!


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## Airwalker16 (Jul 23, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Ha ha well actually it's just Kilz primer slapped down over just one run of drywall mud. Didn't bother with 2nd/3rds as the walls don't need finishing for this use.
> 
> Some corners can be cut after all it seems.
> 
> Well spotted!


Absolutely it could be useful bro. Go get yourself some flat white paint. Not gloss. Not matte. FLAT White. Put 2-4 coats on and get those walls as white as possible. Reflective walls can make a lot of difference for you. Your build is so nice in all aspects so dont cut corners here.


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## ruwtz (Jul 23, 2016)

Airwalker16 said:


> Absolutely it could be useful bro. Go get yourself some flat white paint. Not gloss. Not matte. FLAT White. Put 2-4 coats on and get those walls as white as possible. Reflective walls can make a lot of difference for you. Your build is so nice in all aspects so dont cut corners here.


I hear you. I work with light diffusion/reflection in the day job so i'm feeling confident we're white enough here. These walls are white, and its the color not the paint doing the reflecting. Sure, the paint could be more even, but i've decided winning a few more reflected lumens for the extra $$ and another days' work wasn't all that worth it. 

Obviously if the crop fails miserably then I will definitely blame everything on my lousy paint job and be back here groveling.


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## Airwalker16 (Jul 23, 2016)

I dunno, I guess to me it just looks... tacky. I wouldn't settle for sub par wall like that if my room and flood trays were so artisan crafted.


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## Big smo (Jul 23, 2016)

I went with 3 coats of sherwin Williams Satin. Antimicrobial additive over moisture resistant drywall. The satin is a trade off. I like to clean my walls and not worry about leaving them dirty.


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## Gquebed (Jul 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I like your attention to detail. That is quite possibly the best trait for a grower to have, because it's that one fucking thing that got away/was caught in time that determines success or failure of the run.


I was going to say... if he grows like he builds he will do just fine...


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## Gquebed (Jul 23, 2016)

Some damn fine work on the build. Likeni said above... if you grow and learn like you build youll be smoking some fine fine dank...


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## ttystikk (Jul 23, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I hear you. I work with light diffusion/reflection in the day job so i'm feeling confident we're white enough here. These walls are white, and its the color not the paint doing the reflecting. Sure, the paint could be more even, but i've decided winning a few more reflected lumens for the extra $$ and another days' work wasn't all that worth it.
> 
> Obviously if the crop fails miserably then I will definitely blame everything on my lousy paint job and be back here groveling.


Your sense of humor is on point, too lol

I'm in the middle of a complete overhaul of my bloom space. It's always exciting, mixed with just a little fear of screwing up a good thing.


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## Airwalker16 (Jul 24, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> In the end I had another guy come in and finish the AC, and now we are up and running.
> 
> Workstation sharing the blurple veg room. Can never have enough storage.
> 
> ...


So is that ac on the flower room pic going to outside or another room or what? How ma y BTUs?


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## ruwtz (Jul 24, 2016)

Airwalker16 said:


> So is that ac on the flower room pic going to outside or another room or what? How ma y BTUs?


Two mini splits: 1 ton in veg and a 2 ton in flower. Both drain to a rain barrel outside.


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## PURPLEB3RRYKUSH (Jul 24, 2016)

Just add sum reflective car dash mats too the walls, works the best and cheap


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## ruwtz (Jul 24, 2016)

PURPLEB3RRYKUSH said:


> Just add sum reflective car dash mats too the walls, works the best and cheap


Actually I've got a few hundred thousand Swarovski crystals for sticking to the walls. I got them at Liberace's estate sale. Who knew he was a grower and not just a shower?!


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## ttystikk (Jul 24, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Two mini splits: 1 ton in veg and a 2 ton in flower. Both drain to a rain barrel outside.


Don't waste that reclaim water, it's the purest water on your property! I use mine for top ups and mixing nutes all the time.


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## ruwtz (Jul 24, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Don't waste that reclaim water, it's the purest water on your property! I use mine for top ups and mixing nutes all the time.


Yeah! Most will feed the outside garden but if it's clean enough in the barrel we'll see about putting it back into the room. 

I got 270ppm/pH8 on tap water here with no plans for RO system so this condensate is precious to me!


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## Cyah1990 (Jul 29, 2016)

Nice ass room bro, (wish I had one)wut r u? Electrician/ carpenter??u got a lot of space ur working wit, I hope to still see u tru ur journey till u get to the end game, may u grow dank ass pounds


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## ruwtz (Jul 29, 2016)

Cyah1990 said:


> Nice ass room bro, (wish I had one)wut r u? Electrician/ carpenter??u got a lot of space ur working wit, I hope to still see u tru ur journey till u get to the end game, may u grow dank ass pounds


Thanks, but i'm not a pro at this, no real priors, just a regular Joe with a bit of determination. Anyone can do it with the same spirit plus cash.


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## Akashic Records (Jul 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I built my own dedicated bespoke grow room in the back yard, and I have decided now is the time to share this work with RIU.
> 
> I dropped the best part of $10,000 on this new building: mostly because I wanted to future-proof the structure for other potential uses, and also because I pulled a city permit so everything is to code (ie. no cutting corners). The other reason is I am growing grade A top shelf, no filler and no cash crop, and I believe the finest product demands the finest facility. We building Ferraris here.
> 
> ...


Hey new member here im not an expert on cultivation, for years i've sat on the sidelines watching how the industry is constantly evolving, now i believe its time for me to take the first steps. I have the willingness to learn Everything needed to fully understand how to setup my own grow room and run it meticulously. Lets say i have the same amount of capital 10k and i live in cali where small ops largely go unnoticed, how would i go about establishing something in the range of 1,000 sq? if possible within the budget. from what i hear one can potentially output 6 pounds of dried product per 1,000 Sq of grow space.


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 29, 2016)

Akashic Records said:


> Hey new member here im not an expert on cultivation, for years i've sat on the sidelines watching how the industry is constantly evolving, now i believe its time for me to take the first steps. I have the willingness to learn Everything needed to fully understand how to setup my own grow room and run it meticulously. Lets say i have the same amount of capital 10k and i live in cali where small ops largely go unnoticed, how would i go about establishing something in the range of 1,000 sq? if possible within the budget. from what i hear one can potentially output 6 pounds of dried product per 1,000 Sq of grow space.


I'm no expert either so not the person to answer you properly, but since this is my thread I will throw in my 2 cents.

If it was me, i'd be looking to answer some basic questions before doing anything:

What are you working with? $10k to build something from scratch or $10k to rent and fit out an existing space? Either way it is not much capital for the size you mention, but probably possible with prudent shopping and good connections. Sounds like you want top performance out of your money, which means the best equipment and lots more $$$. Sealed rooms are particularly expensive.

You call it industry so I presume you want to be in business rather than a hobbyist. This is difficult and I have my own feelings about this which probably aren't friendly enough to be shared here. But I will say, starting with hearsay about what you can pull from X space or X startup capital is probably foolish. I'm pretty sure this isn't the goldrush that people think it is. IMO, it is better start with a love for the plants, have an ambition beyond cash, do your research, work hard and be committed, and who knows where you can take it.

Good luck with everything!


----------



## Akashic Records (Jul 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I'm no expert either so not the person to answer you properly, but since this is my thread I will throw in my 2 cents.
> 
> If it was me, i'd be looking to answer some basic questions before doing anything:
> 
> ...


1.Yes my minimum budget is 10k but going over budget is not a problem i cant consolidate. 2.Yes i have 3acres of land to start from scratch but id perfer to use less then 2000 sq "i know i previously said 1000sqft". im thinking 500 for Mother's or maby 250sqtf. 500 for Veg. 500Sqft for Flowering. 500Sqft for Drying/Curing. 3. the hole project from the material needed to built the room to the equipment needed to run the op. 4. My goal is to start backcrossing, making F1's similar to what berner and the Cookie Fam are doing with there genetics. check out Marijuana Mania Episode 1 on Youtube, ull know what i mean. im looking to develop a product with distinct attributes to build a brand that stand out distinctly for its flavor. I love this business for what it is and im a connoisseur all the way. I have a deep never ending love for this plant from the age of 12, now im 21 and i really feel like this is my future here. Thats why im choosing to dedicate all my time to understanding the bases of this "Hobby" or id consider it a Lifestyle. Also i was looking to increase margins by processing the cured flower into wax that and make it a label. Thank you for the advice i really appreciate it and will take it into Full Consideration.


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 29, 2016)

Akashic Records said:


> 1.Yes my minimum budget is 10k but going over budget is not a problem i cant consolidate. 2.Yes i have 3acres of land to start from scratch but id perfer to use less then 2000 sq "i know i previously said 1000sqft". im thinking 500 for Mother's or maby 250sqtf. 500 for Veg. 500Sqft for Flowering. 500Sqft for Drying/Curing. 3. the hole project from the material needed to built the room to the equipment needed to run the op. 4. My goal is to start backcrossing, making F1's similar to what berner and the Cookie Fam are doing with there genetics. check out Marijuana Mania Episode 1 on Youtube, ull know what i mean. im looking to develop a product with distinct attributes to build a brand that stand out distinctly for its flavor. I love this business for what it is and im a connoisseur all the way. I have a deep never ending love for this plant from the age of 12, now im 21 and i really feel like this is my future here. Thats why im choosing to dedicate all my time to understanding the bases of this "Hobby" or id consider it a Lifestyle. Also i was looking to increase margins by processing the cured flower into wax that and make it a label. Thank you for the advice i really appreciate it and will take it into Full Consideration.


3 acres is very useful indeed. Depending on where you are, I would give serious consideration to a scaled-up outdoor veganic kinda thing, but thats just me.

Also not a hard & fast rule but you probably want twice as much space in flower as veg. Put some good thought into the dry/cure facility - that is definitely something I neglected when starting my build and now i'm finding a best fit solution rather than aiming for performance.

The rest sounds good. Start a thread, see what the good people of RIU have to say.


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## HGK420 (Jul 29, 2016)

Man... Anyone talkin shit in this thread can only be doing it out of jealousy... Well done!

I'm right in the middle of adding a furnace system to my initial set up.. Super dumb idea not to design it in in the beginning but I didn't. Planned on mini splits til I found out how many amps 5 would be lol.

I'm gonna go get sketchup right now too and start dabbling. Thanks for the suggestion


Again. Great attention to detail. It's always good to see when someone does it this good.


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 29, 2016)

HGK420 said:


> Man... Anyone talkin shit in this thread can only be doing it out of jealousy... Well done!
> 
> I'm right in the middle of adding a furnace system to my initial set up.. Super dumb idea not to design it in in the beginning but I didn't. Planned on mini splits til I found out how many amps 5 would be lol.
> 
> ...


Nice one, thank you! And good luck with your project! Learning curve with SU can be steep but fairly intuitive; if you have any q's as you get into it feel free to ask. Nowadays there's hardly a project I start around here without going to SU first.


----------



## HGK420 (Jul 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Nice one, thank you! And good luck with your project! Learning curve with SU can be steep but fairly intuitive; if you have any q's as you get into it feel free to ask. Nowadays there's hardly a project I start around here without going to SU first.


i took Autocad classes in high school and I've messed with it periodically since then. hopefully it'll come back.

i wanna use it to design the pole barn i wanna put up in the spring. any suggestions for hiding its use to the county? do i have to have all the internal walls when i go for a permit? I'm in a pretty rural area with a little tiny one room city hall building lol. i can't imagine its gonna be hard to get a permit but i also just found out there is size restrictions based on lot size so i guess i have no idea. i assume you just said yours was a shed? they ask why it was insulated so much?


----------



## mattman998 (Jul 29, 2016)

Cool building! I'm interested to see how the first harvest goes, maybe we can all learn along the way


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 29, 2016)

HGK420 said:


> i took Autocad classes in high school and I've messed with it periodically since then. hopefully it'll come back.
> 
> i wanna use it to design the pole barn i wanna put up in the spring. any suggestions for hiding its use to the county? do i have to have all the internal walls when i go for a permit? I'm in a pretty rural area with a little tiny one room city hall building lol. i can't imagine its gonna be hard to get a permit but i also just found out there is size restrictions based on lot size so i guess i have no idea. i assume you just said yours was a shed? they ask why it was insulated so much?


Go ask the city for their provisions for home builders - they should have specific guidelines for what you can build and how to meet code. They are typically very rigid on this unless you're prepared to involve an architect/structural engineer to prove the feasibility of any deviation from said provisions. Also you will find them to be very tough on any new structure that is deemed fit for habitation as opposed to something for storage etc. Affecting this is not what you tell them it is for but what you design: partitions, for example, tend to demonstrate a livable space, not a storage space or shed etc.

You may choose to build with a permit / pass final inspections and then continue to finish to your own spec afterwards, but of course this comes with inherent risk that only you can weigh up. If you go this way there is still every reason to finish the build according to code as best as possible; this is particularly important for things like electrical - so no redneck wiring or some shit!

Building code and permits are there to maintain safety standards, reduce risk to you and neighbors, and ensures occupied structures will last the test of time, but I agree sometimes the rules feel unnecessarily restricting especially when you are trying to do everything by the book.

And yes the square footage restriction is usually a percentage of lot size; ie. the more space you have the bigger your additional structure can be.


----------



## HGK420 (Jul 29, 2016)

one of my medical patients is a current licensed electrician and my dad used to be one 20 years ago and I'm pretty good at pulling wire soo between the 3 of us we got the electrical covered. no worries there.

that was my strategy i think, draw it up open floor plan and build it to that point. get the inspection. tip my hat, and get back to work. we are pretty rural and i have been pouring in and out of my newly purchased home with 2x4's and doors... lol the doors... I've installed 5 EXTERIOR weather sealed doors on grow rooms with 7 other interior doors for various closets and furnace rooms... etc.. and so far no ones said a word..

also had a septic guy tear up my system and clean it all out by hand. hand dug. hand sprayed lol. dudes crew was after it. he wasn't licensed and didn't pull permits so i saved like $6000 at a time when i absolutely had to and we got lucky that day to. like i said pretty rural and I'm cool with all my neighbors so i don't think that would be an issue... just worry about that random county employee out for a jog.

also, it wouldn't be outside of the realm of reality if i labeled it as a storage garage and just left it open floor plan and maybe a bathroom?


also, thanks for the suggestion on the provisions. I'm checkin to see if they are online now.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Jul 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Go ask the city for their provisions for home builders - they should have specific guidelines for what you can build and how to meet code. They are typically very rigid on this unless you're prepared to involve an architect/structural engineer to prove the feasibility of any deviation from said provisions. Also you will find them to be very tough on any new structure that is deemed fit for habitation as opposed to something for storage etc. Affecting this is not what you tell them it is for but what you design: partitions, for example, tend to demonstrate a livable space, not a storage space or shed etc.
> 
> You may choose to build with a permit / pass final inspections and then continue to finish to your own spec afterwards, but of course this comes with inherent risk that only you can weigh up. If you go this way there is still every reason to finish the build according to code as best as possible; this is particularly important for things like electrical - so no redneck wiring or some shit!
> 
> ...


also, if a building inspector isn't a retiree, but a young buck, he couldn't hack it as a carpenter, and now has to fail as many other people as he can to help caress his ego.

been dealing with the motherfuckers for over 25 years. some of the oldest ones are great, and a joy to work with. these 19 year old mama's boys are lucky to leave with less than a claw hammer hanging out of the back of their skull (hard to ignore the inherent attitude). but however, it is their job, and being a dick is in the description.

glad you passed, i'd have failed you on a couple of discrepancies electrically, but it is sound and will work. great job!


----------



## cat of curiosity (Jul 29, 2016)

HGK420 said:


> one of my medical patients is a current licensed electrician and my dad used to be one 20 years ago and I'm pretty good at pulling wire soo between the 3 of us we got the electrical covered. no worries there.
> 
> that was my strategy i think, draw it up open floor plan and build it to that point. get the inspection. tip my hat, and get back to work. we are pretty rural and i have been pouring in and out of my newly purchased home with 2x4's and doors... lol the doors... I've installed 5 EXTERIOR weather sealed doors on grow rooms with 7 other interior doors for various closets and furnace rooms... etc.. and so far no ones said a word..
> 
> ...


state and county matter for questions like these. i've been building since the nineties, and i can say in most rural parts, you can do what ever the fuck you want to, just pray you don't have a fire (because then inspections will come up in the investigation).

you are always free to build a garage or workshop with added power for big tools with no walls. once inspected and passed, you can partition your heart out and be fine.

but depending on how rural you are, you may need no county man at all. for instance, where i live, the county building inspector is not licensed, knows nothing of construction/manufacturing processes, and is simply a deputized townie. just give him a beer, talk about deer or fish, and wave as he leaves with a signed doc in your hand.

i am a carpenter, electrician, and engineer.


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 29, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> also, if a building inspector isn't a retiree, but a young buck, he couldn't hack it as a carpenter, and now has to fail as many other people as he can to help caress his ego.
> 
> been dealing with the motherfuckers for over 25 years. some of the oldest ones are great, and a joy to work with. these 19 year old mama's boys are lucky to leave with less than a claw hammer hanging out of the back of their skull (hard to ignore the inherent attitude). but however, it is their job, and being a dick is in the description.
> 
> glad you passed, i'd have failed you on a couple of discrepancies electrically, but it is sound and will work. great job!


Totally true. My inspector was a trade vet, he knew I was building and learning at the same time and was very helpful every time he came around. I was humble enough to follow up his changes and we had rep throughout the whole process. I have a legit addition to my property because of his involvement.

Now i'm dying to know the discrepancies you've spotted, just for kicks, i'm not fussed about it at this stage but you gotta tell me!


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## FilthyFletch (Jul 29, 2016)

Some very different ways of building from how we build in the midwest.... Is conduit not required by code out there? I would have figured since you were looking at safety you would have used it. Straight romex through studs is a big no no out here as its a huge fire hazard due to sheathing heat up or lightning hits or power surge or pull.Came out nice just curious as a carpenter of how things are allowed in other areas.


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## cat of curiosity (Jul 29, 2016)

FilthyFletch said:


> Some very different ways of building from how we build in the midwest.... Is conduit not required by code out there? I would have figured since you were looking at safety you would have used it. Straight romex through studs is a big no no out here as its a huge fire hazard due to sheathing heat up or lightning hits or power surge or pull.Came out nice just curious as a carpenter of how things are allowed in other areas.


for the load, residential, no conduit required. bore holes and wall chase work as air proofing (curious if per-lines were required), would vary for a storage building, but 12/2 is kinda overkill. i'd have done it too, rated 20a per, but 15a would have been easier/cheaper, and you could still have run 12/2 instead of 14/2.

@ruwtz your bore holes are not acceptable. you can use 1'' in a 2x6, or 1 1/2'' for anything larger, but you cannot use a lager bore diameter than 3/4'' in 2x4 studs, even if it isn't load bearing, and can run a maximum of two 12/2 through a single bore (12/3 and 14/3 would require their own separate bore). and if using anything smaller (ie 2x3) you must use steel sleeves in the holes (still, don't need solid or spiral/corrugated conduit)
if you were to ever mount anything on the wall, you are in danger of striking and shorting the wire. bore diameter is really only important on load bearing walls; if you remove a section of the uprights, you decrease the structural integrity of the building.

i'm stoned, if this doesn't make sense, just pm me, i'll reiterate tomorrow. not entirely coherent atm...

no big deal, looks great. i'm only nitpicking, and the other electrical stuff is just trade related. i saw something else, but i'm too stoned to remember atm, it's past my bedtime.


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## ruwtz (Jul 29, 2016)

FilthyFletch said:


> Some very different ways of building from how we build in the midwest.... Is conduit not required by code out there? I would have figured since you were looking at safety you would have used it. Straight romex through studs is a big no no out here as its a huge fire hazard due to sheathing heat up or lightning hits or power surge or pull.Came out nice just curious as a carpenter of how things are allowed in other areas.


If you have sheathing heat then you have bigger problems on the circuit than whether Romex should be in conduit or not, wouldn't you say? Lightning is another matter but thats why we have EGC rods, right?

I remember looking this up and found that the 'Romex in conduit issue' is a whole can of worms amongst electricians. I think NEC says you should, most don't appear to do it (at least not here), and some will even say the risk of fire from heat buildup is worsened by conduit, but then again we're indicating other problems then surely.

AFAIK, all conductors including Romex should be in conduit for open walls or surface mounting, and Romex cannot be used at all for wet locations. Happy to be corrected by pros here though.

I'm no electrician so its not my fight. But I know my cables are overrated for their circuit amperage and are properly recessed and stapled in the wall cavity, nailing plates over notches etc.


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## ruwtz (Jul 29, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> for the load, residential, no conduit required. bore holes and wall chase work as air proofing (curious if per-lines were required), would vary for a storage building, but 12/2 is kinda overkill. i'd have done it too, rated 20a per, but 15a would have been easier/cheaper, and you could still have run 12/2 instead of 14/2.
> 
> @ruwtz your bore holes are not acceptable. you can use 1'' in a 2x6, or 1 1/2'' for anything larger, but you cannot use a lager bore diameter than 3/4'' in 2x4 studs, even if it isn't load bearing, and if using anything smaller (ie 2x3) you must use steel sleeves in the holes (still, don't need solid or spiral/corrugated conduit)
> if you were to ever mount anything on the wall, you are in danger of striking and shorting the wire.
> ...


Ah gotcha! I think I used a 1" arbor in the 2x6 rafters and just carried on in the walls, doing my best to drive it in the middle of the stud. Cheers to you for spotting.


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## cat of curiosity (Jul 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Ah gotcha! I think I used a 1" arbor in the 2x6 rafters and just carried on in the walls, doing my best to drive it in the middle of the stud. Cheers to you for spotting.


romex comes with vinyl conduit or in aluminum spiral conduit. the latter is commercial, and generally not found at lowes. you did your homework, your panel termination looks good, and after that, i'd expect your switches and receps are gtg.

i look forward to the adventure!


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## ruwtz (Jul 29, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> romex comes with vinyl conduit or in aluminum spiral conduit. the latter is commercial, and generally not found at lowes. you did your homework, your panel termination looks good, and after that, i'd expect your switches and receps are gtg.
> 
> i look forward to the adventure!


Homework and some, but it still never stopped me from biting through a live 240v 10/2 cable with my crimpers one day. Fried the crimpers and blew me right off the ladder. That breaker wasn't _*supposed*_ to be on, turns out it was. Total DIY/amateur/dickhead mistake and put the willies right up me. By rights I should have ended up 6ft under and in the local paper stupid guy column, but I was lucky. Lesson learned: check it, check it again, and CHECK SOME MORE.

That story is tough to admit here on the net around professionals but if me very nearly costing my own life through stupidity helps someone else then its worth it.


----------



## SPLFreak808 (Jul 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Homework and some, but it still never stopped me from biting through a live 240v 10/2 cable with my crimpers one day. Fried the crimpers and blew me right off the ladder. That breaker wasn't _*supposed*_ to be on, turns out it was. Total DIY/amateur/dickhead mistake and put the willies right up me. By rights I should have been that stupid guy column in the local paper, but I was lucky. Lesson learned: check it, check it again, and CHECK SOME MORE.
> 
> That story is tough to admit here on the net around professionals but if me very nearly costing my own life through stupidity helps someone else then its worth it.


 careful,You have no room for error with electricity!!! A buddy of mine who was training for a power plant job in 03' taking his pgm-4 test completly melted the top half of a snap-on crimper and also, "flew off the ladder" with major sparks and all. The glowing hot crimper landed on the sole of his shoe and set it on fire! You might want to thank the ladder or gravity lol


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## cat of curiosity (Jul 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Homework and some, but it still never stopped me from biting through a live 240v 10/2 cable with my crimpers one day. Fried the crimpers and blew me right off the ladder. That breaker wasn't _*supposed*_ to be on, turns out it was. Total DIY/amateur/dickhead mistake and put the willies right up me. By rights I should have ended up 6ft under and in the local paper stupid guy column, but I was lucky. Lesson learned: check it, check it again, and CHECK SOME MORE.
> 
> That story is tough to admit here on the net around professionals but if me very nearly costing my own life through stupidity helps someone else then its worth it.


yep, you got lucky, never work on live circuits. check, double check, and have a standby to prevent accidents.

i remove the main when working. it goes in a locked tool compartment on the truck. shit happens, even a neighborhood kid, curious, flipping switches in the off hours.


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## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> yep, you got lucky, never work on live circuits. check, double check, and have a standby to prevent accidents.
> 
> i remove the main when working. it goes in a locked tool compartment on the truck. shit happens, even a neighborhood kid, curious, flipping switches in the off hours.


It's not paranoia. Fuckin sparky is out to get me and I'm not about to give it a chance.


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## iHearAll (Jul 30, 2016)

I feel like i juwt did your insulation and wiring. Oh wait. Yea i just did the same thing, 14'×32' art studio. 

I went with a prefabbed singlewide with crafted wood exterior, windows, and a red metal roof. Had to do the insulation, electrical, interor walls, etc, just not the skeleton and exterior.


Looks gooooooooooood! 

Can wait to check out the grow.


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## HGK420 (Jul 30, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Homework and some, but it still never stopped me from biting through a live 240v 10/2 cable with my crimpers one day. Fried the crimpers and blew me right off the ladder. That breaker wasn't _*supposed*_ to be on, turns out it was. Total DIY/amateur/dickhead mistake and put the willies right up me. By rights I should have ended up 6ft under and in the local paper stupid guy column, but I was lucky. Lesson learned: check it, check it again, and CHECK SOME MORE.
> 
> That story is tough to admit here on the net around professionals but if me very nearly costing my own life through stupidity helps someone else then its worth it.


this is why i still shell out the cash/meds for my electricians. i got electrocuted on a construction site once and ended up in the hospital with heart issues. like has been mentioned.. sparky gives no fucks... sparky gives no second chances.. sparky will fuck you up..

when i first moved to this new house i was pulling out a buncha old lighting and i woulda bet all my moneyz that the breaker was off.. well good thing crimper have insulated handles and i had big boots on cause it was fireworks in my hand with a POP. its sooooo ez to make a mistake. 

this DIY furnace was supposed to be done pro style by a trusted HVAC guy but his best friend and supplier was recently killed in an electrical accident, apparently he was very experienced... electricity cares not if you make a mistake..


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## HGK420 (Jul 30, 2016)

i really dig sketchup. its super intuitive and if i spend some time with it, i imagine it can be very detailed.


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## ruwtz (Jul 30, 2016)

HGK420 said:


> i really dig sketchup. its super intuitive and if i spend some time with it, i imagine it can be very detailed.


Well done for getting into it. Be sure to make the most of grouping edges and faces as you go along, and if you get your head around working with layers the proper way then you are a better man than me. Essentially - and unlike other layer-based things like Photoshop - you build everything on a single layer but use the entity dialogue to determine specific layers for different components and groups, allowing you to switch on/off their visibility. Combine this with camera angles and styles to quickly cycle through different ways of viewing your creation. Layers are useful when building complex things like I did with my whole house, and absolutely essential if you then want to produce blueprints using the Layout software, which is free during the 30 day trial period only by the way.

Add textures like wood grain and concrete to your surfaces to bring everything to life.

Also free during the trial only is the cut/subtract set of tools which allow you to do things like subtracting one group from another to create a new object - I found this indispensable when assembling my wood frame and felt like actual building/sawing as I went. I miss these tools now they are gone/not free.

Oh and make the most of the massive library of components available during the free trial - the SU community folks have literally built everything imaginable to scale already! I geeked all the way out and found my exact model central air condenser, Stimpson hurricane ties for rafters, even a VW Jetta to park out front!


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## HGK420 (Jul 30, 2016)

ya i havent grouped anything. i see how there can be lots of issues with that. I'm gonna redo it from the 2x4 up this time and mess with the layers. might even do the whole house for the heck of it. i can see how this would be a very powerful tool for convincing the old lady to get into some pretty big construction projects "Look how nice it will be hun!"

i didn't even see the cut/subtract stuff il look into it now. I've now done all the doorways and whatnot and it woulda been nice to have some sort of cut/subtract tool.


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## Michiganjesse (Jul 30, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> View attachment 3734994
> 
> Shingle courses on the roof. Honestly anyone can do this.


Next time use dimensional it's even easier


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## Big smo (Jul 30, 2016)

Akashic Records said:


> Hey new member here im not an expert on cultivation, for years i've sat on the sidelines watching how the industry is constantly evolving, now i believe its time for me to take the first steps. I have the willingness to learn Everything needed to fully understand how to setup my own grow room and run it meticulously. Lets say i have the same amount of capital 10k and i live in cali where small ops largely go unnoticed, how would i go about establishing something in the range of 1,000 sq? if possible within the budget. from what i hear one can potentially output 6 pounds of dried product per 1,000 Sq of grow space.


I'm pulling just under 5 in 100 sq' of flower space


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## ttystikk (Jul 30, 2016)

Big smo said:


> I'm pulling just under 5 in 100 sq' of flower space


In 600 sq ft total actual grow space, aisles included, I'm running a half pound. DAILY. 

Vertical, perpetual, COB LED. The goal is a full pound daily by this fall in the same space.


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## Freetheworld (Jul 30, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> you said a few cycles..thats great, i grew outdoors in tx for many years longer..since i was a freshman in hs actually, i just say ~15 years professional...its easy to grow fairly healthybherb. not hard atvall actually butvif you wantbto converse with actual experts about the true ins and out, your very much a newb.. humble yourslef and yiud do better
> 
> 
> nah, dont need to puke today, i made some acid yesterday and whipped up about 40 mg of morohine...bit as with natural substances it was more like 80mg and my tolerance isnt that high..especially when combined with my "acid"
> ...


I am a scotch and rum man myself, Glenlivet is pretty decent for the money, I really enjoy Glenmorangie and the Signatory line-up. When it comes to rum's, my go to mixing rum is Mount Gay or Appleton estate for sipping.... But, I would like to find some new drinking brands, do you have any suggestion's for both scotch's and rums? My usual 750ml range for scotch is between 38.00- 114.00 usd and rum would be between 25.00- 42.00 usd. Thanks in advance, that picture of scotch made me thirsty now I need a fingers worth!


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## qwizoking (Jul 30, 2016)

bro i love rum, ive posted alot about em

if your looking for a cheaper but still in the sippable range..
plantation grand reserve
cruzan single barrel (the old style bottle with the sail boat is best but discontinued)

the eldorado line is nice as well, the 12yr runs ~$35

zaya gran reserva is not quite as good but again yiu can still sip
depends what flavors you like

even like rhum barbancourt is good but you may not enjoy

if you just have a completely shit selection bacardi ocho anos is still drinkable swill

personally glenlivet doeant get great till the 18, befpre that i still tend to mix. 
i am a little spoiled.
i prefer to sip neat at roughly 60°


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## ttystikk (Jul 31, 2016)

Freetheworld said:


> I am a scotch and rum man myself, Glenlivet is pretty decent for the money, I really enjoy Glenmorangie and the Signatory line-up. When it comes to rum's, my go to mixing rum is Mount Gay or Appleton estate for sipping.... But, I would like to find some new drinking brands, do you have any suggestion's for both scotch's and rums? My usual 750ml range for scotch is between 38.00- 114.00 usd and rum would be between 25.00- 42.00 usd. Thanks in advance, that picture of scotch made me thirsty now I need a fingers worth!


Mt Gay is my favorite rum, and Meyer's Dark a close second.


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## qwizoking (Jul 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Mt Gay is my favorite rum, and Meyer's Dark a close second.


*shudders


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## ttystikk (Jul 31, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> *shudders


I don't claim to be an educated connoisseur of rum and I'm always interested in a good recommendation. 

So let's hear some!


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## qwizoking (Jul 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't claim to be an educated connoisseur of rum and I'm always interested in a good recommendation.
> 
> So let's hear some!



well the list i gave is a pretty good start.. have you tried those,
ive heard that product is limited and distributors are having a hard time gathering enough. as such some of the rums i listed are harder to find.


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## ttystikk (Jul 31, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> well the list i gave is a pretty good start.. have you tried those,
> ive heard that product is limited and distributors are having a hard time gathering enough. as such some of the rums i listed are harder to find.


Well that's my problem here. The shelves are full of the likes of Bacardi, Captain Moron, Sailor Jerry, the Kraken and other such swill for the college crowd.

Ya gotta give me a break; at least I'm not drinking Admiral Nelson or Lemon Hart!


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## qwizoking (Jul 31, 2016)

i hear you.. i travel alot, i come into certain towns and i just stare at the miniscule rum isle

they come uo after a few... can i help you?
yea do you have any rums worth drinking? get an odd look, what did you have in mind?
start rattling off a dozen bottles.. ummm we dont carry any of those..
course not, do you have any bottles over $25? and i dont mean like a gallon of krakken
ugh

but they still have classc scotchs and whiskys, glenlivet isnt the best but available anywhere

you just dont het the same product, i like rum,. dif part of the world, dif spices flavors and tek..tyoe of still, the climate its aged in.. barrels used

like heres a post.. well a copy of a copy of one of my oists lmao

here's a post from another thread 

↑
I love that stuff for sipping. I keep my bottle in the freezer so it's like syrup, yum. If I love Ocho Años what's the best next step up for sipping, expand my palate.






theres nothing particularly wrong with the Bacardi 8, but nothing...,right either, the nose suggests a younger rum and while there are nuances of....i get dates and darker fruit, some spice as well..ans some classic butter.that's it, nice but i want more 


if i can't sip neat it goes in the trash, but i always drink at roughly 60° not chilling or freeze

idk what youve tried, whats available and budget.
people on a budget or just getting into rums. the plantation grand reserve is an excellent choice. see bottom of post...
the Eldorado line up is another i highly recommend but can get relatively pricey for rum, the 12 and 21yr are excellent, and not the same rum with age dividing. 
if youve tried these or have specific flavors you like i can certainly steer you in direction 

the plantation 
" My initial impression was of a musty leathery aroma accented orange peel and a sweet caramel molasses. I gave the glass the customary tilt and swirl. The spirit deposited light sheen of rum onto the side of my glass, and I watched as the legs formed. They were of an average size and seemed to move at an average pace down the sides of the glass.

As the glass decanted, the leathery mustiness I had noticed initially evaporated into the breezes, and was replaced by a light smell of tarnished blue-green pennies. Perhaps a bit of seaside brine and kelp was rising in the air as well. *(this brine is key in production, as well as type of still)The caramel molasses I noted earlier began to release baking spices into the air, and some charred aromas of coconut were lifting from the glass along with some banana and vanilla. I like how the complexity continued to build as the glass sat."

" That leathery mustiness hasreappeared on the palate and I taste a delicate touch of seaside brine as well. Light baking spices (cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg and vanilla) seem to evolve from the caramel as the glass breathes.

This evolution continues as caramel and honey begin to play with flavours of banana and orange peel; toasted almonds and charred coconut begin to bring an accents of marzipan and treacle to the glass; and somewhere in the currents of the flavours a hint of fermenting fruit bubbles up and brings in yet another dimension to consider. "
author didn't mention some bottles are heavy,.not too much in diacetyl (butter)


beautiful.... this just isnt found or very difficult in bourbon and scotchwhatever 

itall really depends what you like, heavily peated? dark fruit? citrus? floral ? dram that taste like a cookie with chocolate toffee toastedalmonds 

the glenlivet line i would recommend as easy to find intro..
12-18 nice, i like the apple especially in the young bottles. but until i get to the 18, a better sipper and 43%.. i also like to bring the wood out andappreciate say the 15 in even a mixer ..orange juice if your boring..or

2 oz glenlivet 15
3/4 oz (Fresh squeezed) Lemon and Lime juice
1 to 2 tsp sugar syrup
dash bitters (orange bitter if they are available)
ice-cubes
dash of soda
citrus peel (use orange peel if you had no orange bitters)

Build in a rocks glass with Ice
Lengthen with a splash of Soda
Garnish with a threads of citrus peel
Enjoy!
really brings out the wood and certain notes..try it

but so i dont have to keep typing.this is one of my favorite drinks
https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/bunnahabhain/bunnahabhain-25-year-old-whisky/

you can see what flavors i like lol



but rum is my style...


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## ttystikk (Jul 31, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> i hear you.. i travel alot, i come into certain towns and i just stare at the miniscule rum isle
> 
> they come uo after a few... can i help you?
> yea do you have any rums worth drinking? get an odd look, what did you have in mind?
> ...


Keep the suggestions coming and I'll find them and try them. The self described world's largest liquor store is between here and Denver and they carry a lot more than what's available around here.


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## Airwalker16 (Jul 31, 2016)

Guess you oughtta rename the thread to rum drinkers unite.


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## ruwtz (Jul 31, 2016)

Airwalker16 said:


> Guess you oughtta rename the thread to rum drinkers unite.


Actually what I just did was go to my shed and tear out all the AC and all the other waste of time shit, threw it all in the trash and put in some shelves nice and plumb to the wall and now i'm going to all the reputable liquor stores in town to round up all their rhums above a $25 price point for hoarding in my discreet rum hoarding shed because everyone knows the best rhum is the one you can't find or buy anywhere ever. Oh and I threw up a sign on the door that says "no hipsters allowed" and its then that I know i'm probably not welcome.


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## qwizoking (Jul 31, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> rhums


you know rhums- agricole are an acquired taste. id recommend the barbancourt to start...


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 31, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Actually what I just did was go to my shed and tear out all the AC and all the other waste of time shit, threw it all in the trash and put in some shelves nice and plumb to the wall and now i'm going to all the reputable liquor stores in town to round up all their rhums above a $25 price point for hoarding in my discreet rum hoarding shed because everyone knows the best rhum is the one you can't find or buy anywhere ever. Oh and I threw up a sign on the door that says "no hipsters allowed" and its then that I know i'm probably not welcome.


LMAO

Okay okay, I'll quit hijacking your thread!


----------



## cat of curiosity (Jul 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> LMAO
> 
> Okay okay, I'll quit hijacking your thread!


for real dude! lol, fucking nuebs.... 

how are those seeds @ruwtz ?


----------



## UncleBuck (Jul 31, 2016)

fucking butt joint caulking mother fucker.


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 31, 2016)

HGK420 said:


> ya i havent grouped anything. i see how there can be lots of issues with that. I'm gonna redo it from the 2x4 up this time and mess with the layers. might even do the whole house for the heck of it. i can see how this would be a very powerful tool for convincing the old lady to get into some pretty big construction projects "Look how nice it will be hun!"
> 
> i didn't even see the cut/subtract stuff il look into it now. I've now done all the doorways and whatnot and it woulda been nice to have some sort of cut/subtract tool.


Grouping is pretty much essential: I group every face to make it an object before extruding into whatever it is I want. This coupled with typing in dimensions as you draw makes building very quick. Draw a line then straight away type its dimension (eg 3 1/2"), type in the next dimension on its adjacent axis (1 1/2"), make it a box then group it: now you have the section of a 2x4, extrude this by typing its length dimension (96") and now you have a complete 2x4 stud. Hit alt/option when using the move or rotate tools to make it a copy and you're away.

I did a lot of building from scratch before I found a cool plugin that draws up stud walls for you according to set parameters like window/door openings, on-center spacing, double top plates etc. I forget what the plugin is called but worth grabbing.


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## ruwtz (Jul 31, 2016)

HGK420 said:


> ya i havent grouped anything. i see how there can be lots of issues with that. I'm gonna redo it from the 2x4 up this time and mess with the layers. might even do the whole house for the heck of it. i can see how this would be a very powerful tool for convincing the old lady to get into some pretty big construction projects "Look how nice it will be hun!"
> 
> i didn't even see the cut/subtract stuff il look into it now. I've now done all the doorways and whatnot and it woulda been nice to have some sort of cut/subtract tool.


As I say make sure you build everything on a single layer otherwise you will lose things stacked inside groups inside groups and it will make a total headache of your work. Believe me when I say this. Work clean!


----------



## ruwtz (Jul 31, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> for real dude! lol, fucking nuebs....
> 
> how are those seeds @ruwtz ?


Babies looking perkier today, cheers! I tossed the dome and humidity is fine, canopy temps at 83F from radial heat. No idea why my hydro guy egged me to put the dome on - i've never used one for seedlings - but there you go.

I had a skinful last night and still trousered, so i'm gonna go sit and chat at them for an hour or so to make myself feel better.


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## cat of curiosity (Jul 31, 2016)

what happened to solid works, autocad, autodesk inventor and rhino 3d?


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## cat of curiosity (Jul 31, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Babies looking perkier today, cheers! I tossed the dome and humidity is fine, canopy temps at 83F from radial heat. No idea why my hydro guy egged me to put the dome on - i've never used one for seedlings - but there you go.
> 
> I had a skinful last night and still trousered, so i'm gonna go sit and chat at them for an hour or so to make myself feel better.


looking forward to the pix


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## ruwtz (Jul 31, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> what happened to solid works, autocad, autodesk inventor and rhino 3d?


They got bettered.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Jul 31, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> They got bettered.


lol

guess i'm out of a job


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## ttystikk (Jul 31, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> lol
> 
> guess i'm out of a job


I got a job for you. Wanna build these?


Peek my thread for more;
https://www.rollitup.org/t/ttystikks-vertical-goodness.787572/

Something like this might even fit in your new grow shed, @ruwtz


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## FilthyFletch (Aug 1, 2016)

Good stuff. Yeah out here no romex can be used in any build. Its conduit with single wire pulls throughout all buildings ie having spoils then pulling usually 3 wires each individual coated. Can be more. The usual white blacks blue red yellow..Did you run any plumbing like drains in the slab or just all just out the walls?


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## ruwtz (Aug 1, 2016)

FilthyFletch said:


> Good stuff. Yeah out here no romex can be used in any build. Its conduit with single wire pulls throughout all buildings ie having spoils then pulling usually 3 wires each individual coated. Can be more. The usual white blacks blue red yellow..Did you run any plumbing like drains in the slab or just all just out the walls?


No plumbing. I'm right next to an outdoor faucet and hose so didn't bother. Plus there's no new slab pour here, just footings and stem wall and using the existing concrete slab as my interior floor.


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I got a job for you. Wanna build these?
> View attachment 3746529
> 
> Peek my thread for more;
> ...


Future upgrade some day maybe, yeah!


----------



## since1991 (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I'm no expert either so not the person to answer you properly, but since this is my thread I will throw in my 2 cents.
> 
> If it was me, i'd be looking to answer some basic questions before doing anything:
> 
> ...


The gold rush for alot of Michiganders was about 4 or 5 years ago. Deflating now. At least for alot of good growers that i know or acquainted with. Very nice build you got. You literally built a stand alone grow room. You will likr thos 750 flex Gavitas. I know i do. Getting 2 pounds on the 750 setting is not that difficult with a good producer and attention to detail...which you definitely have. How did you work out on your Quest dehuey?


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

since1991 said:


> The gold rush for alot of Michiganders was about 4 or 5 years ago. Deflating now. At least for alot of good growers that i know or acquainted with. Very nice build you got. You literally built a stand alone grow room. You will likr thos 750 flex Gavitas. I know i do. Getting 2 pounds on the 750 setting is not that difficult with a good producer and attention to detail...which you definitely have. How did you work out on your Quest dehuey?


Cheers! Max efficiency yield will be the aim I guess!

Scored the 105 for $1800 via my local shop so pretty happy. Picking it up today and need to figure out how to hang. Thing is a beast at 160lbs. Would two large eye bolts do it or is four wiser???

I'm also sending back the pair of 400 LED panels and I've talked myself into an 8 cob array for veg. Another improvement right there.


----------



## since1991 (Aug 4, 2016)

Go with 4 eye bolts. Over kill everything you can when planning and building rooms. I figured that out the hard way over the years. And do it rite once the first time too. Nothing sucks more than upgrading an already running room or cheaping out on initial build on some dumb thing that turns around on ya in mid flower on a nice chugging along crop of fat buds. Sucks. Looks like you thought of just about every little detail. One thing ive noticed from my fellow local growers is that alot of them after one ot three subpar room build outs (iam one of them but long ago) they finally build a "correct" room and flake out big time on post harvest areas or rooms. Drying and curing is just as if not more important than the growing and flowering itself. I even read some articles on the web about very big warehouse and greenhouse grows completely underestimating and not paying alot of attention to post harvest.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Go with 4 eye bolts. Over kill everything you can when planning and building rooms. I figured that out the hard way over the years. And do it rite once the first time too. Nothing sucks more than upgrading an already running room or cheaping out on initial build on some dumb thing that turns around on ya in mid flower on a nice chugging along crop of fat buds. Sucks. Looks like you thought of just about every little detail. One thing ive noticed from my fellow local growers is that alot of them after one ot three subpar room build outs (iam one of them but long ago) they finally build a "correct" room and flake out big time on post harvest areas or rooms. Drying and curing is just as if not more important than the growing and flowering itself. I even read some articles on the web about very big warehouse and greenhouse grows completely underestimating and not paying alot of attention to post harvest.


Lots of big operations in Colorado don't pay much attention at all to cure, it's flying out the door too fast for them to care.

This too shall pass...


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lots of big operations in Colorado don't pay much attention at all to cure, it's flying out the door too fast for them to care.
> 
> This too shall pass...


Unbelievable as it is, some people just prefer Budweiser. Same across all scales, I suppose.


----------



## since1991 (Aug 4, 2016)

Looks like you got it ruwtz. Looks like a sweet and well thought out set up. Alot of work huh? It will all be worth it iam sure. If you dont mind post up your first run. Love to see them ladies chillin in a perfect room.


----------



## since1991 (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Unbelievable as it is, some people just prefer Budweiser. Same across all scales, I suppose.


Alot of tokers in my town dont have the nose or palate when it comes to fine cannabis. They got 2 kinds....good weed and bunk. My patients are NOT one of these. My people can get picky. One patient is an amputee and my blue petrol and sins og got her off a 8 year percocet addiction. Iam proud to say the least.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Unbelievable as it is, some people just prefer Budweiser. Same across all scales, I suppose.


Some folks are happy with $100 zips of leafy schwag- but I'm not one of them, lol

There is indeed a Budweiser plant in my town, but everyone I know drinks microbrews from any of the dozens of local options.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Alot of tokers in my town dont have the nose or palate when it comes to fine cannabis. They got 2 kinds....good weed and bunk. My patients are NOT one of these. My people can get picky. One patient is an amputee and my blue petrol and sins og got her off a 8 year percocet addiction. Iam proud to say the least.


As well you have a right to be.


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## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Alot of tokers in my town dont have the nose or palate when it comes to fine cannabis. They got 2 kinds....good weed and bunk. My patients are NOT one of these. My people can get picky. One patient is an amputee and my blue petrol and sins og got her off a 8 year percocet addiction. Iam proud to say the least.


Just wait until it's legal- suddenly EVERYBODY'S a fuckin wannabe pot connoisseur! And they still don't want to pay what it's worth, lol


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## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Alot of tokers in my town dont have the nose or palate when it comes to fine cannabis. They got 2 kinds....good weed and bunk. My patients are NOT one of these. My people can get picky. One patient is an amputee and my blue petrol and sins og got her off a 8 year percocet addiction. Iam proud to say the least.


Thats great to hear man! You are realizing this shit!


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## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Looks like you got it ruwtz. Looks like a sweet and well thought out set up. Alot of work huh? It will all be worth it iam sure. If you dont mind post up your first run. Love to see them ladies chillin in a perfect room.


I will do my best. I've had some teething problems at testing the first run of bagseed and thats in another thread. Its a lot of firsts all at once and at this point i've decided the weakest link (together with my own mistakes, admittedly) is rock wool: its just too temperamental for me. Too much water and they choke, too little and it dries up real fast. Honestly I had better & faster productivity dumping them on a window sill in regular garden soil.

I'm swapping out my rock wool stock for Rapid Rooters for the next lot of seeds. Cali Connection Larry OG and not cheap so must get it right from the off. Lessons learned already.


----------



## since1991 (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I will do my best. I've had some teething problems at testing the first run of bagseed and thats in another thread. Its a lot of firsts all at once and at this point i've decided the weakest link (together with my own mistakes, admittedly) is rock wool: its just too temperamental for me. Too much water and they choke, too little and it dries up real fast. Honestly I had better & faster productivity dumping them on a window sill in regular garden soil.
> 
> I'm swapping out my rock wool stock for Rapid Rooters for the next lot of seeds. Cali Connection Larry OG and not cheap so must get it right from the off. Lessons learned already.


Yup. Rockwool can be tricky. It was the go to medium back in the day. Once you get it...it gives very similar results to coco coir. Top drip manifold and run to waste is how i found both these hydroponic mediums do the best. And like coco coir....when starting out with small transplants with small roots....a wet dry (almost) with rockwool gets yiur root structure going quick. The main thing i never liked about wool was reuse and or disposal. Figured out quick that wool slabs wasnt ideal for reuse and getting rid of that spent shit back in the dark days of growing was paranoia and a bitch.


----------



## since1991 (Aug 4, 2016)

Oh and Cali Connects Larry Og....find the best one that doesnt herman on you and its pure hell fire. Good smoke.


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## since1991 (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Just wait until it's legal- suddenly EVERYBODY'S a fuckin wannabe pot connoisseur! And they still don't want to pay what it's worth, lol


If people only knew what it really takes to pull off exceptional smoke!!! I mean...dont get me wrong...the basics of growing is fairly simple. But to pull it all off and grow real fire without any hiccups....thats a different story. The equipment and setup is another whole ball of wax. Bugs...mildew...drying...curing...getting busted (not so much now finally)....all of it....gets overwhelming sometimes. Like i said
..if people only knew.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

since1991 said:


> If people only knew what it really takes to pull off exceptional smoke!!! I mean...dont get me wrong...the basics of growing is fairly simple. But to pull it all off and grow real fire without any hiccups....thats a different story. The equipment and setup is another whole ball of wax. Bugs...mildew...drying...curing...getting busted (not so much now finally)....all of it....gets overwhelming sometimes. Like i said
> ..if people only knew.


Well, WE know. Which is why the only place to get fire is from someone like us. 

That's not going to change, either.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Aug 4, 2016)

I highly suggest staying away from cali connection. There are so many better breeders out there. Try sin city.


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

Airwalker16 said:


> I highly suggest staying away from cali connection. There are so many better breeders out there. Try sin city.


Oh yeah? Care to elaborate? Or is that for another time??


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Oh yeah? Care to elaborate? Or is that for another time??


You've got nothing to worry about, lol

A little patience and attention to detail is really all that's required.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You've got nothing to worry about, lol
> 
> A little patience and attention to detail is really all that's required.


even bad genetics can be impressive with proper grow techniques.

but better is always better. this is why we experiment and try different and new strains/hybrids.

amirite? best is better than better, until you find something better than your best...


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You've got nothing to worry about, lol
> 
> A little patience and attention to detail is really all that's required.


Not worried over here, only curious. Curiosity killed the cat but the cat had nine lives so gives a, right??


----------



## since1991 (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You've got nothing to worry about, lol
> 
> A little patience and attention to detail is really all that's required.


This^^^^. Ive found fire in Cali Connection gear. You have to sift through the gear a little more...thats all. Helps to have a small tester tent or spot with a smaller lamp to run seed packs. I do this anyways.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Not worried over here, only curious. Curiosity killed the cat but the cat had nine lives so gives a, right??


I don't have any deep dark secrets. I use a lot of time honored techniques with a modern twist or two. 

I'm diligent, I keep careful records and I make changes that look likely to produce specific and thus measurable results.


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I don't have any deep dark secrets. I use a lot of time honored techniques with a modern twist or two.
> 
> I'm diligent, I keep careful records and I make changes that look likely to produce specific and thus measurable results.


I enjoy finding new inspirations!


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## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I enjoy finding new inspirations!


My thread may provide a few. The latest iteration is shown on page 129.

'Espalier'. Now, that's inspirational!


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

Tomorrow i'm putting in ebb&flow into the veg room, working with my handmade flood table. 40 gallon res should do it but I don't like the footprint or the space it will take up. Does anyone use or would anyone recommend a res that is taller than it is wider/stouter? Or is that a bad idea in terms of flow, pressure, residue etc?

I was hoping to use the majority of the space beneath this tall table for the dry/cure as the ambient temps and humidity are just right. Plus i'm outta room.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Tomorrow i'm putting in ebb&flow into the veg room, working with my handmade flood table. 40 gallon res should do it but I don't like the footprint or the space it will take up. Does anyone use or would anyone recommend a res that is taller than it is wider/stouter? Or is that a bad idea in terms of flow, pressure, residue etc?
> 
> I was hoping to use the majority of the space beneath this tall table for the dry/cure as the ambient temps and humidity are just right. Plus i'm outta room.


For a submersible, you'd get increased flow with a trash can style res.


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## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

Airwalker16 said:


> For a submersible, you'd get increased flow with a trash can style res.


Well that is good to hear and a nice byproduct of trying to save on sq footage! 40gal res looks to take up way too much precious floor space.


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## Airwalker16 (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Well that is good to hear and a nice byproduct of trying to save on sq footage! 40gal res looks to take up way too much precious floor space.


Yeah, I'd bet you could match up a trash can with a tote lid if you mix and match at home stores or walmart. Or just buy one that had the flat top, swivel style mouth and put reflective material on top to seal it off


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## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

When changing out the water i'd like to pump out to a rain barrel out the door and a few feet away. I'm assuming if I size the submersible correctly I can do this?


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## Airwalker16 (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> When changing out the water i'd like to pump out to a rain barrel out the door and a few feet away. I'm assuming if I size the submersible correctly I can do this?


Absolutely. 189gph plus will take care of that easily. I'd go with around 250.


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## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

Airwalker16 said:


> Absolutely. 189gph plus will take care of that easily. I'd go with around 250.


Or I could put in two cans/drums and alternate the plumbing/pump between them and just drag the unused one out and empty. If I pump out the door then the door needs to be open for X amount of time, then my space is compromised.


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## Airwalker16 (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Or I could put in two cans/drums and alternate the plumbing/pump between them and just drag the unused one out and empty. If I pump out the door then the door needs to be open for X amount of time, then my space is compromised.


If I were you, id pump into 5 gal buckets, fill em, lid em, aND carry em where you need em to be dumped. More work, but much safer.


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## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

8 buckets, once a week / 10 days. Not the end of the world I suppose.

Although money in = efficiency out has been my motto for much of this, so i'll keep looking and thinking before I drop cash.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Not worried over here, only curious. Curiosity killed the cat but the cat had nine lives so gives a, right??


funny.

you ever do stand up?

lol with a finger (in an amiable way)


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Tomorrow i'm putting in ebb&flow into the veg room, working with my handmade flood table. 40 gallon res should do it but I don't like the footprint or the space it will take up. Does anyone use or would anyone recommend a res that is taller than it is wider/stouter? Or is that a bad idea in terms of flow, pressure, residue etc?
> 
> I was hoping to use the majority of the space beneath this tall table for the dry/cure as the ambient temps and humidity are just right. Plus i'm outta room.





ruwtz said:


> When changing out the water i'd like to pump out to a rain barrel out the door and a few feet away. I'm assuming if I size the submersible correctly I can do this?





ruwtz said:


> Or I could put in two cans/drums and alternate the plumbing/pump between them and just drag the unused one out and empty. If I pump out the door then the door needs to be open for X amount of time, then my space is compromised.





ruwtz said:


> 8 buckets, once a week / 10 days. Not the end of the world I suppose.
> 
> Although money in = efficiency out has been my motto for much of this, so i'll keep looking and thinking before I drop cash.


55g blue commercial water barrel (25$ used) would be perfect.

plumb accordingly. install valves, so the work goes to the table until it's time to change the res, then flip the valve off on the table, and open to your rain barrel. no toting, no bs, just modern living adjusted to gardening use...


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## cat of curiosity (Aug 4, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> 55g blue commercial water barrel (25$ used) would be perfect.
> 
> plumb accordingly. install valves, so the work goes to the table until it's time to change the res, then flip the valve off on the table, and open to your rain barrel. no toting, no bs, just modern living adjusted to gardening use...


big fan of letting 100$ do 10$ an hour jobs for several years. hell, even mcdonald's is automating...


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## ruwtz (Aug 4, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> 55g blue commercial water barrel (25$ used) would be perfect.
> 
> plumb accordingly. install valves, so the work goes to the table until it's time to change the res, then flip the valve off on the table, and open to your rain barrel. no toting, no bs, just modern living adjusted to gardening use...


Great tip off! CL flooded with them, found brand new at $25 a pair. I could run two and just swap them out as needed.

Edit: Many of them are completely sealed so I would need to cut a larger opening to drop in the pump. Easy.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Great tip off! CL flooded with them, found brand new at $25 a pair. I could run two and just swap them out as needed.


or, as i mentioned, you could plumb it. you'll only need a cold water line in, easy with pex, and they make adapters to switch from pvc and copper. a pump to flood (200gph would probably be perfect) and pex running from a t. valve on both sides, one is open, the other closed. when the table is open and pump is on a timer, table floods and drains. when it's time to change the res, close table main valve, open flush main valve, and pump old res water directly to plants, or to outdoor container, or to sewer/septic; your choice.

the biggest and most expensive tool you'll need will be a pex crimper. i know, they're pricey, but it's 50 dollars well spent, imo


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## cat of curiosity (Aug 4, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Great tip off! CL flooded with them, found brand new at $25 a pair. I could run two and just swap them out as needed.
> 
> Edit: Many of them are completely sealed so I would need to cut a larger opening to drop in the pump. Easy.


easier to drill a hole, plumb and seal, and let the pump do the work for you. i mean, it's gonna be there anyway, why not make it work for you?

55g barrels full of fluid are a motherfucker to move, and you still have to open the door. plumb it, and you'll never worry about it again.

trust me, i did the manual thing for three years before i plumbed my basement. i'll never go back to filling/waiting and then toting buckets. fuck that nonsense...


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 6, 2016)

I picked up a 55gal drum for $15 used; just needs a proper clean out. I will be running the e&f system into the table today.

Still undecided on draining the drum. I agree the best case scenario is to plumb a pump line out to the rain barrel, but since this sits several feet higher than the bottom of the new drum I'm not sure what size pump I will be needing: seems like a demanding job on a regular 400gph pump, or even a 620gph which I can get pretty cheap. I'm wondering if I should drop on a 1/2hp sump pump instead?

I asked my hydro guy if there was any way of putting in a second plumbed line on the existing res pump so that I can switch over for pumping out to waste, and he said no. Anyone know any better?

Of all the things i've learned through building this op, I never got into plumbing and water pressure, so i'm feeling out of my watery depth here.


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 6, 2016)

PS Larry OG Cali Connection seeds popped 48hrs ago and we have 3 from 12 a solid 1/2" above ground already and cotyledons open. These Root Riot plugs are proving awesome already, and i'm much less worried about their ability to retain the proper moisture content. Very happy with these plugs already.

Not very scientific but I popped some other bagseed at exactly the same time and put them in rock wool in the same propagator. Not a peep from those guys whatsoever, and again i'm concerned that the rock wool isn't watered correctly. Bagseed could be duds though.


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## ruwtz (Aug 6, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> easier to drill a hole, plumb and seal, and let the pump do the work for you. i mean, it's gonna be there anyway, why not make it work for you?
> 
> 55g barrels full of fluid are a motherfucker to move, and you still have to open the door. plumb it, and you'll never worry about it again.
> 
> trust me, i did the manual thing for three years before i plumbed my basement. i'll never go back to filling/waiting and then toting buckets. fuck that nonsense...


I bet you can answer this for me then...

Lets say I run a PVC line out the wall to the rain barrel, which sits 5-6ft above the bottom of the reservoir drum. What size pump is going to move 40-55 gallons out the wall via this vertical lift and potential total of 360 degrees of elbow turns along the way? I assume each of these factors offers resistance on pumping power ratings?

It surely can't be as simple as saying a 390gph pump moves 6.5 gallons per minute, and therefore can clear 55 gallons in 8 1/2 minutes??

I think I have 2 options: (A) double up on the existing pump by adding a second hose and shutoff valves to both lines, one flowing to the table and the other to waste via the PVC pipe; or (B) add a second dedicated pump to the res just for draining; 1/2 horse power sump or something similar.

Opinions? Ideas?


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 6, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I bet you can answer this for me then...
> 
> Lets say I run a PVC line out the wall to the rain barrel, which sits 5-6ft above the bottom of the reservoir drum. What size pump is going to move 40-55 gallons out the wall via this vertical lift and potential total of 360 degrees of elbow turns along the way? I assume each of these factors offers resistance on pumping power ratings?
> 
> ...


the important part of the pump is head pressure. your pump should actually have head values on the package.

what you need is a pump that can elevate your 6ft so it can be used in duality. imo 390gph should be plenty, once the water is pumped to elevation, siphoning does the rest (and the pump does almost no work). 

then, you just make a 'T'. use it for your flood/drain, and switch the valves to pump outdoors.

i'm too old to tote buckets of water, and i think you feel me on that aspect...


----------



## Airwalker16 (Aug 6, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> the important part of the pump is head pressure. your pump should actually have head values on the package.
> 
> what you need is a pump that can elevate your 6ft so it can be used in duality. imo 390gph should be plenty, once the water is pumped to elevation, siphoning does the rest (and the pump does almost no work).
> 
> ...


Ya when I drain my res, I can turn my pump off Completely (unplug it) and the siphoning just does the rest


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 6, 2016)

Airwalker16 said:


> Ya when I drain my res, I can turn my pump off Completely (unplug it) and the siphoning just does the rest


i am a firm believer in automation, technology, and not breaking my back when a hundred dollars or less will do it for me for years.

it'd be fucked up if it were slavery, but i don't think electricity supplied by a power company that i pay monthly constitutes...

old military adage, "work smarter, not harder"...


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 6, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> the important part of the pump is head pressure. your pump should actually have head values on the package.
> 
> what you need is a pump that can elevate your 6ft so it can be used in duality. imo 390gph should be plenty, once the water is pumped to elevation, siphoning does the rest (and the pump does almost no work).
> 
> ...


Gotcha, didn't know that rating and I had to dig into the manual to find "H max" which I assume is height or head. 6.5ft so it seems this pump will do the job, and quick enough for it to be a good fix as far as i'm concerned.

I'll throw in a T as you say with a shut-off valve on each line. Simple.

Thanks for throwing down.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 6, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Gotcha, didn't know that rating and I had to dig into the manual to find "H max" which I assume is height or head. 6.5ft so it seems this pump will do the job, and quick enough for it to be a good fix as far as i'm concerned.
> 
> I'll throw in a T as you say with a shut-off valve on each line. Simple.
> 
> Thanks for throwing down.


you betcha, and you'll be doing a jig the first res change. the hmax is maximum head value, so you're golden. just think of those hundreds of pounds of water you won't have to tote manually!


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## ttystikk (Aug 6, 2016)

Wimp. Hauling water make you strong like bull!

...shit,lol


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 12, 2016)

If anyone is interested I was able to return the blurple Mars Hydro lights, with not too much fuss from the manufacturer in China, and got a full refund. This money + some was dropped on a pair of Timber Grow's 200w cob kits with frames, which are being delivered today. 

I have a line of eager seedlings waiting to graduate so keen to get these lights up ASAP. It has taken 3 weeks of tweaking but I think my seedling nursery is finally getting to be where I want it: the last two batches of seeds were popped in Root Riots, all of them surfacing in 2 days and multiple furry root formations dominating the plug within 5-7 days. Domes have come off to harden to ambient temps/humidity/circulation before vegging as soon as I can get these cobs up. Even the first batch of seeds that suffered poorly in RW with overwatering are bouncing back. Very happy at this point. Thanks to all who contributed to these improvements with good ideas.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Aug 12, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> If anyone is interested I was able to return the blurple Mars Hydro lights, with not too much fuss from the manufacturer in China, and got a full refund. This money + some was dropped on a pair of Timber Grow's 200w cob kits with frames, which are being delivered today.
> 
> I have a line of eager seedlings waiting to graduate so keen to get these lights up ASAP. It has taken 3 weeks of tweaking but I think my seedling nursery is finally getting to be where I want it: the last two batches of seeds were popped in Root Riots, all of them surfacing in 2 days and multiple furry root formations dominating the plug within 5-7 days. Domes have come off to harden to ambient temps/humidity/circulation before vegging as soon as I can get these cobs up. Even the first batch of seeds that suffered poorly in RW with overwatering are bouncing back. Very happy at this point. Thanks to all who contributed to these improvements with good ideas.


Ya mine are all thriving now that roots are large on all.


----------



## Big smo (Aug 12, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> If anyone is interested I was able to return the blurple Mars Hydro lights, with not too much fuss from the manufacturer in China, and got a full refund. This money + some was dropped on a pair of Timber Grow's 200w cob kits with frames, which are being delivered today.
> 
> I have a line of eager seedlings waiting to graduate so keen to get these lights up ASAP. It has taken 3 weeks of tweaking but I think my seedling nursery is finally getting to be where I want it: the last two batches of seeds were popped in Root Riots, all of them surfacing in 2 days and multiple furry root formations dominating the plug within 5-7 days. Domes have come off to harden to ambient temps/humidity/circulation before vegging as soon as I can get these cobs up. Even the first batch of seeds that suffered poorly in RW with overwatering are bouncing back. Very happy at this point. Thanks to all who contributed to these improvements with good ideas.


Great news and the best possible decision. Luckily you didn't buy from kind


----------



## paperc07 (Aug 12, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> In the end I had another guy come in and finish the AC, and now we are up and running.
> 
> Workstation sharing the blurple veg room. Can never have enough storage.
> 
> ...


man let me know how those gavita's work out supposedly with the 1000's you can get 2lbs a plant!


----------



## kaydeezee (Aug 13, 2016)

Any more updates bro? ? You got me hooked on what the final look of your build will look like fully working??? How many plants are you planning on growing in there???


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 13, 2016)

kaydeezee said:


> Any more updates bro? ? You got me hooked on what the final look of your build will look like fully working??? How many plants are you planning on growing in there???


Nursery has room for around 150, veg can accommodate 30-40, and will be flowering 16, 4 to each light under 4x4 scrogs. Still deciding my watering plan for each of these footprints, but I have low rise grow tables under each one ready for possible ebb&flow. Will be hand watering for a while yet.

I'm making no silly projections about yield at this stage - thats fools' talk - long road ahead with lots to get wrong before I get it right.


----------



## Moflow (Aug 15, 2016)

Hey Ruwtz, congratulations on your build.
Real professional


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

55gal drum reservoir with a facelift = happy barrel


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

Veg e&F table with 2 x 200w cob arrays - 8 cobs in total on a pair of 185v/1.4a drivers. I have a 240v circuit on the ceiling running to a Y-splitter to power both bars on the same timer.

Happy barrel lives beneath the table fed by pump and two drain returns.

6" Pargro blocks are sat up to aid drainage on rubber grommets, but I might yet go with a single layer of hydroton for better stability as they grow up.

Still finding the right watering schedule a challenge - they've been flooded twice since moving to veg 5 days ago and these blocks stay wet a long time. This might be too much still.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> 55gal drum reservoir with a facelift = happy barrel
> 
> View attachment 3760564


what i used to do is cut the round area like you did and score the back between the two cut points, allowing it to flip up and down (great to keep out dust and light)


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> what i used to do is cut the round area like you did and score the back between the two cut points, allowing it to flip up and down (great to keep out dust and light)


Yeah nice one. I have a spare utility hinge so i'm thinking about putting the cut piece back in as a flap. Hoses and pump cables are fed through the drum openings so the cut piece fit back in snug.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Yeah nice one. I have a spare utility hinge so i'm thinking about putting the cut piece back in as a flap. Hoses and pump cables are fed through the drum openings so the cut piece fit back in snug.


i would def do that, seal the hinge side with duct tape. the more sterile the better, imo


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

What i'm finding is when the flood comes on the flow is colored very dark, presumably since it is a richer/denser nute concentration settling at the bottom near the pump. After a few seconds of flow it levels out. Could this be a problem with taller reservoirs? I'd prefer a stable concentration of nutes throughout the flow, and nobody wants pockets of dense nute solutions in their medium.

Res is aerated by those heavy weighted air stones so its always moving in there.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> What i'm finding is when the flood comes on the flow is colored very dark, presumably since it is a richer/denser nute concentration settling at the bottom near the pump. After a few seconds of flow it levels out. Could this be a problem with taller reservoirs? I'd prefer a stable concentration of nutes throughout the flow, and nobody wants pockets of dense nute solutions in their medium.
> 
> Res is aerated by those heavy weighted air stone so its always moving in there.


you can submerge a small aquarium pump to the bottom (5 or 10 gph) and it will circulate the nutrients keeping it fully mixed at all times.


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> you can submerge a small aquarium pump to the bottom (5 or 10 gph) and it will circulate the nutrients keeping it fully mixed at all times.


Good idea, air stone obviously isn't sufficiently agitating the mix.

I've gone with 40 gallons in the 55gal drum as that is the capacity of my table, but with displacement from the many blocks - and since reducing the drain height by an inch since the first flood - I will need less for the next flush/refill. This is a relief as I was starting to see how much nutes ($$$) i'd be draining to waste on a fortnightly basis.

Also the plan is to flush the blocks with plain ph'd top watering at least once a week and this can be the res top-up. I'm trying to be smart here but please say if you think this is a bad idea!


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Good idea, air stone obviously isn't sufficiently agitating the mix.
> 
> I've gone with 40 gallons in the 55gal drum as that is the capacity of my table, but with displacement from the many blocks - and since reducing the drain height by an inch since the first flood - I will need less for the next flush/refill. This is a relief as I was starting to see how much nutes ($$$) i'd be draining to waste on a fortnightly basis.
> 
> Also the plan is to flush the blocks with plain ph'd top watering at least once a week and this can be the res top-up. I'm trying to be smart here but please say if you think this is a bad idea!


sounds good so far, but the only way to get it right is to use it and adjust to fit. once you've got everything running right, it can be completely automated, and the only time you have to use your hands is to transplant, trim, and harvest...


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> sounds good so far, but the only way to get it right is to use it and adjust to fit. once you've got everything running right, it can be completely automated, and the only time you have to use your hands is to transplant, trim, and harvest...


Hopefully thats where we're headed here!


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Hopefully thats where we're headed here!


you're headed there, and will get it. just have to iron out the kinks so it runs like a well-oiled machine


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

These Pargro blocks really hold on to water: they remain heavy and the base saturated even after 3 days of no additional watering (flooded twice since transplanting 5 days ago). All are elevated enough to aid drainage. Obviously the girls are so small they're barely drinking anything so i'm watching them very closely. In fact, the res ppm was slightly higher after the second flood so my solution must be slightly too high (around 300ppm in feed after factoring for tap water). No signs of tox or burn though so i'm not worried at this stage.

Very little visible new growth since the transplant 5 days ago either, with some droop persisting which is hopefully just shock. I'm counting on them just laying down roots in this new medium as they exploded real quick in the Root Riot plugs, and they were telling me they wanted to move within 9-10 days but I was waiting on the cobs arriving to kick off veg. All were moved within 12-14 days, and credit to Timber Grow for turning around my order - including special order 5000k lights and 240v cables - as fast as they did. Any longer stuck in plugs and I would've worried about stunting the babies.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> These Pargro blocks really hold on to water: they remain heavy and the base saturated even after 3 days of no additional watering (flooded twice since transplanting 5 days ago). All are elevated enough to aid drainage. Obviously the girls are so small they're barely drinking anything so i'm watching them very closely. In fact, the res ppm was slightly higher after the second flood so my solution must be slightly too high (around 300ppm in feed after factoring for tap water). No signs of tox or burn though so i'm not worried at this stage.
> 
> Very little visible new growth since the transplant 5 days ago either, with some droop persisting which is hopefully just shock. I'm counting on them just laying down roots in this new medium as they exploded real quick in the Root Riot plugs, and they were telling me they wanted to move within 9-10 days but I was waiting on the cobs arriving to kick off veg. All were moved within 12-14 days, and credit to Timber Grow for turning around my order - including special order 5000k lights and 240v cables - as fast as they did. Any longer stuck in plugs and I would've worried about stunting the babies.


let the rockwool dry a bit, roots will seek water. i've always had that problem in rw, it's just too absorbent. once roots exit the block you're in business.


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> let the rockwool dry a bit, roots will seek water. i've always had that problem in rw, it's just too absorbent. once roots exit the block you're in business.


Yeah, eyes peeled for that moment. Shouldn't be too long - at just 6 days from pop in those RR cubes and I had 3" roots leaping out the bottom seeking water, which is good pace.

These Pargro's are designed as quick draining, and hold more air they say, and since we are bottom feeding the majority of the block should stay well balanced. Once the girls are drinking it will be much easier to tell.

Like I said I might yet go with a layer of hydroton to help them drain better, although I wouldn't want too many roots growing into that. I think slabs are a waste of money and resources but I know some people like them.

Will be transplanting into 7gal coco for flower.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Yeah, eyes peeled for that moment. Shouldn't be too long - at just 6 days from pop in those RR cubes and I had 3" roots leaping out the bottom seeking water, which is good pace.
> 
> These Pargro's are designed as quick draining, and hold more air they say, and since we are bottom feeding the majority of the block should stay well balanced. Once the girls are drinking it will be much easier to tell.
> 
> ...


gotcha. just remember, they have no reason to try for excellence if they are pampered.

in dwc, water line should be below the first roots. the only water they get are the minuscule bubble splashes that sporadically hit them. once the roots grow into the res, they become 'water roots' and take off.


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> gotcha. just remember, they have no reason to try for excellence if they are pampered.


I want this on a welcome mat at my grow room door


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I want this on a welcome mat at my grow room door


i want royalties if they go mass production!


----------



## Airwalker16 (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> What i'm finding is when the flood comes on the flow is colored very dark, presumably since it is a richer/denser nute concentration settling at the bottom near the pump. After a few seconds of flow it levels out. Could this be a problem with taller reservoirs? I'd prefer a stable concentration of nutes throughout the flow, and nobody wants pockets of dense nute solutions in their medium.
> 
> Res is aerated by those heavy weighted air stones so its always moving in there.


Use another pump (100-200gph) to sit at the bottom pointed at the heavens to "floom" your nute soup. Keep it moving always. That won't happen anymore.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Aug 18, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Good idea, air stone obviously isn't sufficiently agitating the mix.
> 
> I've gone with 40 gallons in the 55gal drum as that is the capacity of my table, but with displacement from the many blocks - and since reducing the drain height by an inch since the first flood - I will need less for the next flush/refill. This is a relief as I was starting to see how much nutes ($$$) i'd be draining to waste on a fortnightly basis.
> 
> Also the plan is to flush the blocks with plain ph'd top watering at least once a week and this can be the res top-up. I'm trying to be smart here but please say if you think this is a bad idea!


You need to use more than what your table holds in your drum or you're pump will suck dry. Keep it at 50 gals.


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## Airwalker16 (Aug 18, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> gotcha. just remember, they have no reason to try for excellence if they are pampered.
> 
> in dwc, water line should be below the first roots. the only water they get are the minuscule bubble splashes that sporadically hit them. once the roots grow into the res, they become 'water roots' and take off.


And yeah I'd have the thing full of hydroton to sit those blocks on top of. The beautiful thing about it is, if roots grow down through it, just flood your table, and the hydroton half floats and allows you to work the roots out of it without damaging them.


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## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

Airwalker16 said:


> You need to use more than what your table holds in your drum or you're pump will suck dry. Keep it at 50 gals.


 i second the motion


Airwalker16 said:


> And yeah I'd have the thing full of hydroton to sit those blocks on top of.


second this as well.

all in favor?


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## Airwalker16 (Aug 18, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> i second the motion
> 
> second this as well.
> 
> all in favor?


Edited the hydroton post.


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 18, 2016)

Airwalker16 said:


> Edited the hydroton post.


still second the motion


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 18, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> still second the motion


Aye.

Its built as low tide with only 4" sides so I don't have the height to fill it with hydroton, but a thin layer would do nicely I reckon.


----------



## DrunkenNinja (Aug 21, 2016)

Fuck my friend that looks great I can't wait to follow your grow

Sent from my SM-S920L using Rollitup mobile app


----------



## DrunkenNinja (Aug 21, 2016)

Good choice on the mini splits

Sent from my SM-S920L using Rollitup mobile app


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 22, 2016)

I started a journal so I don't clog this thread with stuff that probably don't belong in room design talk.

Follow if you want to see if I have the jewels / want to see how I fuck this up: https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/ruwtz.938942/


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## cat of curiosity (Aug 22, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I started a journal so I don't clog this thread with stuff that probably don't belong in room design talk.
> 
> Follow if you want to see if I have the jewels: https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/ruwtz.938942/


good luck buddy


----------



## cat of curiosity (Aug 22, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I started a journal so I don't clog this thread with stuff that probably don't belong in room design talk.
> 
> Follow if you want to see if I have the jewels: https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/ruwtz.938942/


i think you made it private, i can't access the page...


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## ruwtz (Aug 22, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> i think you made it private, i can't access the page...


Hmm, thats weird. Whats the point of a journal if its gonna be private?? I for sure haven't done that deliberately so i'll have to take a look at the controls.

TBH i'm finding the whole journal section of the site a bit poor to operate, doesn't read easy and I can't see how it works in any kind of linear fashion. Could just be me though...


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## ruwtz (Aug 22, 2016)

Its under new journals in any case if my link don't work.


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## Afgan King (Aug 22, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Oh and Cali Connects Larry Og....find the best one that doesnt herman on you and its pure hell fire. Good smoke.


Yup it is lol mine wasn't a big yielder but stupid bud


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## ruwtz (Aug 22, 2016)

Afgan King said:


> Yup it is lol mine wasn't a big yielder but stupid bud View attachment 3763956


Finding the Larry to be fairly temperamental as seedlings but I have high hopes for those that make the cut. The aim is to get 4 decent ones into flower, and i'm already down to 9 from 12 seeds, although I am fully aware all my strains are suffering to some degree with me messing with the new room.


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## Afgan King (Aug 22, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> I started a journal so I don't clog this thread with stuff that probably don't belong in room design talk.
> 
> Follow if you want to see if I have the jewels: https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/ruwtz.938942/


Nice


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## Afgan King (Aug 22, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Finding the Larry to be fairly temperamental as seedlings but I have high hopes for those that make the cut. The aim is to get 4 decent ones into flower, and i'm already down to 9 from 12 seeds, although I am fully aware all my strains are suffering to some degree with me messing with the new room.


Eh I've heard it's finicky ran real well for me in tupur one of my lowest yielders at like 1.2 a light but I kept the cut for personal smoke in rols


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## cat of curiosity (Aug 22, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Its under new journals in any case if my link don't work.


it doesn't. doesn't even show...



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## ttystikk (Aug 22, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Hmm, thats weird. Whats the point of a journal if its gonna be private?? I for sure haven't done that deliberately so i'll have to take a look at the controls.
> 
> TBH i'm finding the whole journal section of the site a bit poor to operate, doesn't read easy and I can't see how it works in any kind of linear fashion. Could just be me though...


I agree. If you don't want it to be ignored just stick it in the appropriate section, like indoor growing.


----------



## ruwtz (Aug 22, 2016)

cat of curiosity said:


> it doesn't. doesn't even show...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All a bit odd... if I go to "Grow Journals" and click on"All Journals" I see mine at the top as the most recent one updated.


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## ruwtz (Aug 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I agree. If you don't want it to be ignored just stick it in the appropriate section, like indoor growing.


But ok, if it means getting seen then I'll kick off a new thread in that section and CTRL+C/CTRL+V.


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## CaptainCAVEMAN (Aug 22, 2016)

I'll be looking for it.


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## ruwtz (Aug 22, 2016)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> I'll be looking for it.


It has landed.


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## ttystikk (Aug 22, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> But ok, if it means getting seen then I'll kick off a new thread in that section and CTRL+C/CTRL+V.





CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> I'll be looking for it.


Post a link here when you get it started!


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## ruwtz (Aug 22, 2016)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/ruwt-maneuver-vol-1.918730/


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## JSB99 (Nov 29, 2016)

I was looking for the size of your shop, but didn't see it. My shop (which I didn't build) is 16x20, but not a lean-to. Originally I was going to have my grow in there, but I got a new car and I want to have it converted into a single-car detached garage. My real garage is a home theater. 

I was just curious.


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## ruwtz (Nov 29, 2016)

JSB99 said:


> I was looking for the size of your shop, but didn't see it. My shop (which I didn't build) is 16x20, but not a lean-to. Originally I was going to have my grow in there, but I got a new car and I want to have it converted into a single-car detached garage. My real garage is a home theater.
> 
> I was just curious.


Just over 200sqft total, with 12x9ft flower room and 10ft ceilings on the tall side (single slope roof).

Already wishing on a larger veg space, but instead I need to concentrate on timings and quantity of taking clones, moving to veg etc.


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## ruwtz (Nov 29, 2016)

And this is no lean-to! Its a permanent structure on solid foundations, future proofed for other uses beyond growing: could be a tiny house, man cave, or just a shed of course.


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## JSB99 (Nov 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Just over 200sqft total, with 12x9ft flower room and 10ft ceilings on the tall side (single slope roof).
> 
> Already wishing on a larger veg space, but instead I need to concentrate on timings and quantity of taking clones, moving to veg etc.


Very cool!


----------



## JSB99 (Nov 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> And this is no lean-to! Its a permanent structure on solid foundations, future proofed for other uses beyond growing: could be a tiny house, man cave, or just a shed of course.



My mistake. I thought all single sided roofs were called "lean-to's" even if they aren't leaning against anything. See, that's about the extent of my building knowledge...except what I learned on my own LOL


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## Carolina Dream'n (Nov 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> A double pole 80amp breaker from the main board feeds this sub panel in the structure, neatly recessed between studs by the front door. I worked hard to keep all wiring neat and tidy and circuits labelled correctly.
> 
> The breakers feed x2 120v outlet circuits, x2 240v lighting circuits, and a dedicated 240v circuit for AC.
> 
> ...


That sub panel is not wired correctly. The ground and nuetral need to be separated in a sub panel. And it needs to have its own grounding rod if in a separate building that main panel.


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## ruwtz (Nov 29, 2016)

Carolina Dream'n said:


> That sub panel is not wired correctly. The ground and nuetral need to be separated in a sub panel. And it needs to have its own grounding rod if in a separate building that main panel.


They are separated. And I have 2 dedicated rods for this structure.


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## Walterwhiter (Nov 29, 2016)

No shit...life goals
@Big smo water proof room? Baller and cool asf!


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## Carolina Dream'n (Nov 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> They are separated. And I have 2 dedicated rods for this structure.


Where is the ground line coming in with your mains then? You still have to be grounded to the main panel. You only have 3 wires coming in.

I now see your ground coming out the bottom going to the rods I'm assuming.


----------



## ruwtz (Nov 29, 2016)

Carolina Dream'n said:


> Where is the ground line coming in with your mains then? You still have to be grounded to the main panel. You only have 3 wires coming in.
> 
> I now see your ground coming out the bottom going to the rods I'm assuming.


Yeah I had to eventually run two separate lines from the main panel after upsizing the wire and being stuck with just a 3/4" conduit sunk in my concrete foundation. Those five conductors just wouldn't fit, and in any case wouldn't have been code. I had to bring the neutral and ground via a new pipe through the wall. I assure you its coming through with the mains, just not so visible in this pic.

Neutral bus is on the left, ground on the right.

The white conductor you see on the left is a 240v hot, and is tagged as such.

Keen eyes though!


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Yeah I had to eventually run two separate lines from the main panel after upsizing the wire and being stuck with just a 3/4" conduit sunk in my concrete foundation. Those five conductors just wouldn't fit, and in any case wouldn't have been code. I had to bring the neutral and ground via a new pipe through the wall. I assure you its coming through with the mains, just not so visible in this pic.
> 
> Neutral bus is on the left, ground on the right.
> 
> ...


Nice, and thanks for sharing the details. I'm always looking to learn something.


----------



## Carolina Dream'n (Nov 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Yeah I had to eventually run two separate lines from the main panel after upsizing the wire and being stuck with just a 3/4" conduit sunk in my concrete foundation. Those five conductors just wouldn't fit, and in any case wouldn't have been code. I had to bring the neutral and ground via a new pipe through the wall. I assure you its coming through with the mains, just not so visible in this pic.
> 
> Neutral bus is on the left, ground on the right.
> 
> ...


Your ground bus is on the left. Neutral bus is on right. 

5 conductors? 
Two hots, ground and a neutral. That's 4. You'd have 5 if it was three phase power. 

Don't forget your black tape on the white 220v feed on the top left....



I know. I'm a douche.


----------



## ruwtz (Nov 29, 2016)

Carolina Dream'n said:


> Your ground bus is on the left. Neutral bus is on right.
> 
> 5 conductors?
> Two hots, ground and a neutral. That's 4. You'd have 5 if it was three phase power.
> ...


Come round and do it for me if you like.


----------



## Carolina Dream'n (Nov 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Come round and do it for me if you like.


Lol. Sorry, I'll stop. I get anal with electricity.


----------



## ruwtz (Nov 29, 2016)

Carolina Dream'n said:


> Lol. Sorry, I'll stop. I get anal with electricity.


Sounds painful.


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## Big smo (Nov 29, 2016)

ruwtz said:


> Sounds painful.


Was just thinking the same thing. Shocked in the ass. He is right though. Safety first


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 29, 2016)

Carolina Dream'n said:


> Lol. Sorry, I'll stop. I get anal with electricity.


Fuckin' A right, mate. 

Some of the best money I've spent on my op is getting proper master electricians to inspect every inch of my work and install the power boxes and capacity upgrades. 

We play around high voltage, high current and water. In a wood frame building that my precious and irreplaceable ass sleeps in. 

NO SHORTCUTS WITH THE ELECTRICITY.

I sleep very well, btw.

@ruwtz I'm not implying anything about your work, I'm just a lil nuts about safety, too. Frankly, I feel that it's a healthy paranoia.


----------



## ruwtz (Nov 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fuckin' A right, mate.
> 
> Some of the best money I've spent on my op is getting proper master electricians to inspect every inch of my work and install the power boxes and capacity upgrades.
> 
> ...


Absolutely. Serious business. No offense taken. My tough inspector signed off my DIY so we're all good here.


----------



## Carolina Dream'n (Nov 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fuckin' A right, mate.
> 
> Some of the best money I've spent on my op is getting proper master electricians to inspect every inch of my work and install the power boxes and capacity upgrades.
> 
> ...


When I started doing this I went to the local tech school and get certified. I can't/don't allow randoms into garden, so had to learn how to do every aspect by myself. 

Every grower should have at least a little knowledge in electric, HVAC, plumbing and carpentry.


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## Walterwhiter (Nov 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fuckin' A right, mate.
> 
> Some of the best money I've spent on my op is getting proper master electricians to inspect every inch of my work and install the power boxes and capacity upgrades.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with healthy paranoia lol many a time has that knawing feeling saved my ass!

@Carolina Dream'n I've seen some kinda scary shit on here and I'm not talking about the big diy builds either. cords and shit on the floor next to there hydro res and some of these scary hazardous lighting setups....smh


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## Big smo (Nov 30, 2016)

I guess I have some reading to do, didn't realize I didn't add the thread to my watch list.


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## ruwtz (Nov 30, 2016)

Big smo said:


> I guess I have some reading to do, didn't realize I didn't add the thread to my watch list.


Lol. This one feels old to me now - so much has happened on this first run since the summer!!!

Kinda neat some people have come back to it though. This building was a real achievement for me personally. Especially my hokey electrics. Oh and wrapping the building paper by myself. 

Little things, eh?!


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## Big smo (Nov 30, 2016)

One of those things where you say I'll never do that again and then wonder how you even pulled it off? Lol story of my life. 

Have any full room shots? I saved the computer sketches you did, still very impressed with those.


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## ruwtz (Nov 30, 2016)

Big smo said:


> One of those things where you say I'll never do that again and then wonder how you even pulled it off? Lol story of my life.
> 
> Have any full room shots? I saved the computer sketches you did, still very impressed with those.


Check out the grow log in my sig - running at 100% capacity now. Or more like 125% in veg - need to cut down for the sake of better quality training really, just hard to bring myself to throw healthy plants out.


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## ttystikk (Nov 30, 2016)

Carolina Dream'n said:


> When I started doing this I went to the local tech school and get certified. I can't/don't allow randoms into garden, so had to learn how to do every aspect by myself.
> 
> Every grower should have at least a little knowledge in electric, HVAC, plumbing and carpentry.


Wow, well done, Sir. Respect. Indeed I feel the same way, even if one's specialty lies elsewhere.


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## bud nugbong (Dec 10, 2016)

Well done on the shed ruwtz.!


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2016)

bud nugbong said:


> Well done on the shed ruwtz.!


Look up ruwtz maneuver, volume 1 for what he's been doing in it. 

Spoiler alert; it's goooood!


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## Tripped circuits (Dec 10, 2016)

I see it says you pulled a permit, but that wiring does not look to code unless all loads have no neutrals. knowing what is going on here that is not the case. next time go with a extra wire so the 240v circuits have a neutral. long story short, neutrals blow breakers, not the grounds. by chance if you do have a short the path of the current will be to ground, path of least resistance. that doesn't mean the ground bar in your sub panel. I would isolate any of those 240v without neutrals to not come into contact with a lesser path of reistance because if they do and you have no return path(neutral) the light or ac or anything could become hot. meaning when u touch your light you will get shocked if there's a short. if u have any questions pm me. hope everything works out great and there are no problems. I am a worst case kinda guy, hence why I don't grow in my nazi state. but keep on keeping on


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## ruwtz (Dec 11, 2016)

Tripped circuits said:


> I see it says you pulled a permit, but that wiring does not look to code unless all loads have no neutrals. knowing what is going on here that is not the case. next time go with a extra wire so the 240v circuits have a neutral. long story short, neutrals blow breakers, not the grounds. by chance if you do have a short the path of the current will be to ground, path of least resistance. that doesn't mean the ground bar in your sub panel. I would isolate any of those 240v without neutrals to not come into contact with a lesser path of reistance because if they do and you have no return path(neutral) the light or ac or anything could become hot. meaning when u touch your light you will get shocked if there's a short. if u have any questions pm me. hope everything works out great and there are no problems. I am a worst case kinda guy, hence why I don't grow in my nazi state. but keep on keeping on


Hmmm, I don't really get what you're saying here but you clearly understand the why's much better than I.

I've never heard of a neutral on 240v, why would it need one unless its a mixed 120/240v circuit? I have no 120/240v combo circuits or devices. What current would the neutral carry in a 2 leg 240v single phase system?

Since I was signed off on the permit I would expect that everything is above board here, but feel free to elaborate. Other keen-eyed pro sparks (@cat of curiosity @Carolina Dream'n etc) have looked here too without raising this one, but obviously I have cause for concern if this is unsafe in any way.

An example would be great as your description above really is stretching my ability to understand! Thanks for contributing.


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## ruwtz (Dec 11, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Look up ruwtz maneuver, volume 1 for what he's been doing in it.
> 
> Spoiler alert; it's goooood!


Stop, i'll blush.


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## Tripped circuits (Dec 11, 2016)

Well in 120v it's function is a return path for current (amps) in a 240v it doesn't serve that purpose if the two hots balance each other out (equal loads), it's sole purpose would be to handle short circuit loads. this is why ground and neutral get bonded at one point for worst case scenario where there is no neutrals. grounds are solely for personal protection in the event there is a short that doesn't have a return path (neutral) to the panel to blow the breaker, the ground would earth the current. the ground will then pass the fault from the ground to the neutral to blow the fuse or breaker. a neutral is important, it's the primary return path in the event of a short. people confuse grounding and neutral, that is why we have to separate them now. if your grounds go back to the panel It should be ok, but make sure your grounds stay connected good in your equipment


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