# Plasma is the Future of growing!



## plasmargon (Aug 12, 2009)

Plasma Light Source (PLS) systems ARE the future!

Magnetron failure was the main complaint for the old Sulfur Plasma systems, and that says a lot considering their main component was a glass bulb spinning at 1200 RPM to keep it from instantly melting and becoming a fire hazard, not to mention the fact it would be like having a microwave oven above your heads (the energy, size and weight of a microwave).

WELL CHECK THIS OUT!






They have taken the concept of sulfur plasma to another level. It's now solid state (no moving parts). Instant on with less than a minute to re-strike, optional computer interface to monitor status, and dim-ability down to 20% (cool option for catastrophic heat buildup prevention). The spectral power distribution is similar to the output of the sun (they're working on the Red) and, before this new product really even goes to market according to inside people they've already increased the output 35% across the board (including Red) That's awesome when you really think about it. Imagine where they'll be in ten years!

These things are made to last and the diminishing of light over the ten year lifespan is negligible. If my calculations are right, if they really did accomplish 35% more efficiency on top of 120 Lumen per watt, that put's them over 160 lumen per watt! With more of the energy going into usable light and less to heat. So the heat output is less than a 200 watt HPS with the usable light of more than a 400 watt!

Whats the total weight you ask? Lighter than a digital ballast HPS system without the reflector!

Unlike High intensity discharge LED or Florescent lighting which emit their light over a larger surface area (up to 1 sq. foot for a single florescent), the PLS is a tic-tac size single point source that's so intense, you have to be careful with your eyes. Right now they make a 250 watt driver that has the PAR Watt equivalent of a 400 w Metal Halide, with this new 35% upgrade it will be even better. Right now It's perfect for the Clone/ Mother/ Veg cycle (with less heat and more PAR watt light than any other light in this range) and soon they will be releasing the new driver with an adjusted spectrum, more 642nm-662mn red range. I'm telling you all, (I feel almost prophetic) Solid State PLS (Plasma Light Source) Systems ARE the future of horticulture. (next year comes the 700 watt agricultural model)

And the cost? The current 250 watt system puts any 400 watt system to shame for the VEG cycle, and will cost less than the new $1000 LED systems, will last longer and grow more, with less electricity and heat than any other possible competitor. I'll keep you informed about the release date of the Horticultural model that we're in the process of developing for mass market. It looks like October for the adjusted frequency (Fruit) light production date. If you took the current 40-02 model and added a 100 watts of RED LED's nothing could currently beat it for budding! If the interest is high enough I would consider going into early production using the 40-02 driver. Oh by the way, we will be offering a 2 year warranty with our air cooled models.
(Use this light with some Humboldt 2-part Amino Acid Chelated Nutrients and set some records!)

Here it comes!~ The age of light without heat!


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## The Warlord (Aug 12, 2009)

Sounds good to me. The few times I've mentioned sulpher plasma on here no one even reads it. I want star trek to get here yesterday!


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## BigBudBalls (Aug 12, 2009)

Its all still in R&D, like feul cells, fusion reactors, etc. Not ready for market, so no real need to talk about a maybe.


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## gangstajpimpin (Aug 13, 2009)

Send me a unit and I will test it out, comparing it to HPS lighting and write up a full review with pictures and identical room setups...


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## plasmargon (Aug 13, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> Its all still in R&D, like feul cells, fusion reactors, etc. Not ready for market, so no real need to talk about a maybe.


No this isn't a fusion reactor story, there shortly will be a new website showing the tech info as well as pictures of the PLS system complete. I'm giving a heads up to all the users for this kind of product. No one seems to want to believe it. I needed to see what kind of response there will be, to do marketing recon so to speak.. I need to forecast orders.
Forgive me if this is the wrong forum, I just figure including the customer in product development would be wise.


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## Treeth (Aug 13, 2009)

yeah thanks for double posting too. oh, and don't fuck with buds balls. you know how big the homegrown industry is. if your product is the tits aint no one gonna deny it.

whats a rough, reasonable timeline for release... next fall?

direct to consumer etail?

or are you with a larger corporation that'll be working through distributors?



_rickyyy!!!_


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## plasmargon (Aug 13, 2009)

Treeth said:


> yeah thanks for double posting too. oh, and don't fuck with buds balls. you know how big the homegrown industry is. if your product is the tits aint no one gonna deny it.
> 
> whats a rough, reasonable timeline for release... next fall?
> 
> ...


Sorry BudBalls, I really thought you were going for that effect, Yes October of this year is when Luxim puts out their new drivers with the increased output. I could put my product into production now but decided to wait for the upgrade. Everything is gonna be top quality from the driver to the heat sink, top notch. With a two year warranty. If I go direct from the production floor to the customer I can absorb the development cost and limit the final cost to the buyer. My friends at American Garden Supply would love to help me market it though so who knows what the future holds. If you have any good ideas I would love to hear them.


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## atxbudgrower (Aug 13, 2009)

would you sell a whole set up? you know ballast reflectors and all seems interesting i will be keeping a eye on this thread and post the link to the website when you get a chance as well


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## YouGrowBoy (Aug 13, 2009)

> Its all still in R&D, like feul cells, fusion reactors, etc. Not ready for market, so no real need to talk about a maybe.


Like LED's a lot of people paid good money for bad lights that also had promise. Now there are lot's of disappointed growers bashing the 1st and 2nd gen LED's (I know it's getting better, but they are not quite there yet). The real concern is reality not matching the hype, as with LED's.

Now, if we can see some test grows from neutral 3rd parties of the PLS, then we're not buying on faith or hype. 

I for one would be very willing to test your light and offer an honest review comparing to my 600 HPS. 

Please PM me for more details.

YGB


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## Kaban (Aug 13, 2009)

Sorry to rain on your advertising campaign, but there already are 130 lumen/Watt LEDs from OSRAM. Next year 160 L/W models are expected.


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## Treeth (Aug 13, 2009)

oh,.

So you are just a middle man.

everyone else has the goods.

whatever then. I'll wait for, like you said, am ag to come out with their version,

and general hydro theirs...

hell maybe even AN will get into the lighting game!

_Luxim_ is going to make a lot of money...


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## Mindmelted (Aug 13, 2009)

Same thing was said about led grow lights.


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## bossman88188 (Aug 13, 2009)

I have to agree that 3rd party test grow's would be the best way to get good marketing.


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## mrduke (Aug 13, 2009)

WHAT THE HELL DO THESE LOOK LIKE? show us some pics.

I would also be willing to do a test cycle, side by side with my 1000hps if it proves suppior I'd gladly pay up.


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## plasmargon (Aug 13, 2009)

mrduke said:


> WHAT THE HELL DO THESE LOOK LIKE? show us some pics.
> 
> I would also be willing to do a test cycle, side by side with my 1000hps if it proves suppior I'd gladly pay up.



You know that's what it's looking like will happen.

I will post the website for the Solid State PLS system soon with full graphic interface and blog site. Thanks for the idea. 

I'm not kidding I know this from experience, PLS will revolutionize growing. 

There is a woman from 'opengrow' who is posting a PLS grow https://www.opengrow.com/index.php?showtopic=40312 and I looked at her blog and as soon as I saw her set up I said "she's going to kill her plants" because she doesn't have any glass between the emitter and the plants. 

The PLS system does produce UV-A-B and C! This is a warning to anyone trying to use it the way she did, and all you have to do to eliminate the UV-C (bad), diminish the UV-B and regulate the UV-A (to good levels) is put a piece of tempered glass at least 5mm thick under the emitter. The glass is seen as opaque by UV-C rays and heavily filters UV-B rays.

Our Solid State PLS System has the perfect kind of glass already in place and a high efficiency CPU fan setup to cool the heat sink, eliminating a significant amount of the heat that's left, which is already negligible.


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## bossman88188 (Aug 13, 2009)

Spammer!!!!


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## atxbudgrower (Aug 13, 2009)

looks good on the link but the person said it was 32c in the room thats almost 90f


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## plasmargon (Aug 13, 2009)

Oh well, try help and look where it gets you. Just trying to get the word out. You will change your tune when this all breaks loose.


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## plasmargon (Aug 13, 2009)

I can see exactly what she's doing wrong, you see that air tube in the ceiling? that should be right over the emitter instead of letting the air circulate the heat in the chamber. And put some tempered glass under the light to filter the UV light.

I think I came up with the name, as soon as I establish the URL I'll post it.

My use is very different than hers. It is enclosed in a UV resistant borosilicate glass tube (cool tube) and the driver (the Ballast looking thingy) would be outside the grow area if in such a small enclosure.


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## atxbudgrower (Aug 13, 2009)

seems really interesting but i will have to see more results to make up my mind and for them to be cost effective whats a good price range for these lights?


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## plasmargon (Aug 13, 2009)

with the cool tube and everything included $950, at least until the price comes down for me and I'm a player in the market. (the computer interface connection is $100 more I think.) It was a big commitment and yes I am investing everything, but man oh man.


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## atxbudgrower (Aug 13, 2009)

thats expensive and what you mean by computer interface? you can control them through computers? that would be sick and would it be mac compatible?


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## plasmargon (Aug 13, 2009)

atxbudgrower said:


> thats expensive and what you mean by computer interface? you can control them through computers? that would be sick and would it be mac compatible?


That's one of the best parts...imagine this. The Solid State Plasma Light Source can be controlled via computer and yes Mac compatible and it is dim-able down to 20%. If the computer has the software and the link cable it could be monitoring the heat of the grow area and if something causes it to suddenly get hot with no other recourse it could dim the light to compensate for the heat!!!! The light doesn't go off, it just gets dimmer. Imagine the disasters that could have been avoided.

The cool part is, I don't think Luxim even knows that. I didn't hear them say that in the phone conversations. They have all the components to make the best high tech growing systems in the world and even they don't know it's full potential.

If I where Luxim, (or I may do it myself) I would make a thermal detection unit 'built in' using the already provided simple interface with a laser type temp sensor. You could have a laser guide for it (like the hand held models) to show exactly where it's aiming and have it dim the light if the area being aimed at (tops of plants) goes above the adjustable set temp (78 F). I already worked on a similar project for an HID hood auto adjuster. I was using the fuzzy logic module for the Harvest Master to adjust the height of the reflector automatically to keep the top's in the sweet spot because the point is for them to stay there (in the sweet spot) but they grow!. After actually accomplishing the task successfully, I realized there was a much easier (and cheaper) way of doing it. I'm working on the patent on that one so stay tuned.

Fuzzy Logic interface, set parameters and dimensions and forget it!


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## atxbudgrower (Aug 13, 2009)

sounds great will differently keep this mind and keep a eye on them


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## bossman88188 (Aug 13, 2009)

Am I the only one that think its funny.
That you joined this forum just to sell your light's.
And spam us with other site links.
Did you read the rules.


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## plasmargon (Aug 14, 2009)

If someone has a smarter idea than you, and they are willing to share their information with you for free before going off to make millions with it, why would you complain? I'm thinking since it's actually in the Beta stage this is the perfect forum to get the word out. If I'm wrong then I'll take my toys and play with my other friends. Sincerely Plasmargon


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## TeaTreeOil (Aug 14, 2009)

These bulbs are extremely hot(they can melt themselves!), and produce tons of unusable light, just like the sun(roughly only 25% plant-usable/PUR/PAR). They were created back in the early 90's and were deemed a commercial failure.. still in the 90'S.

LEDs are clearly the future of lighting for quite a foreseeable time. They have the highest luminous efficiency(while still producing good light, sorry LPS), and are 'tunable' to various wavelengths. Plus they are the most directional light source(normal bulb radiates 360 degrees, an LED is less than half of that).


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## tSunami13 (Aug 14, 2009)

Plasmas are freaking bright. Maybe someday they will be here to grow with.


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## plasmargon (Aug 14, 2009)

TeaTreeOil said:


> These bulbs are extremely hot(they can melt themselves!), and produce tons of unusable light, just like the sun(roughly only 25% plant-usable/PUR/PAR). They were created back in the early 90's and were deemed a commercial failure.. still in the 90'S.
> 
> LEDs are clearly the future of lighting for quite a foreseeable time. They have the highest luminous efficiency(while still producing good light, sorry LPS), and are 'tunable' to various wavelengths. Plus they are the most directional light source(normal bulb radiates 360 degrees, an LED is less than half of that).


This a completely different breed of plasma lighting THERE ARE NO MOVING PARTS TO COME APART! (please read opening post thoroughly)

the problem with LED is it's limitation of power output how many LED's do want in your bank is the question to watt output because you don;t see them making 700watt LED's. One point source as opposed to a bank 2 foot by 4 foot long?

May I share where I agree with you though?

Imagine this; To build an LED fixture the ideal situation is to have at least a three to one ratio of Red to Blue correct?

Well imagine having at least double the wattage of Red LED (500 watts) and one 250 watt plasma Light Source as a foundation covering all the frequencies not covered by the couple of banks of wide coverage high output red and far red LED's. To my scientific mind there could be no better combination. This way it reaches a higher PAR rating by amplifying the red on TOP of the foundation that's perfect for the Veg cycle (including the perfect amount of red) This way the supplementation accentuates the foundation instead of having only two points of the whole chromatic spectrum represented have them all. 

The Ideal set up for this scenario is having the PLS in the middle and the Red LED's on the sides of the grow environment. They say soon, with the upgrades being made to the PLS system there will be no need of supplementation but I think they may be wrong since the ideal amount of red is far higher than any single driver can produce.


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## TeaTreeOil (Aug 14, 2009)

The problem is it peaks at 500-600 nm... basically sea-green to yellow. See attachment. The green grid and graph is a basic photosynthetic spectral response. The plasma bulb hits neither of the peaks with its peak... and peaks in the valley of the plant curve.

Halogens can do a very similar spectrum, basically.


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## YouGrowBoy (Aug 14, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> If someone has a smarter idea than you, and they are willing to share their information with you for free before going off to make millions with it, why would you complain? I'm thinking since it's actually in the Beta stage this is the perfect forum to get the word out. If I'm wrong then I'll take my toys and play with my other friends. Sincerely Plasmargon


Right now it's all talk and hype. I've seen this many times before in the computer/internet business. It's all hype until there's an actual producing product. More often then not the reality fell way short of the hype/fantasy (can you say Windows Vista?) and many products failed in the real marketplace. 

Show us the working product and we'll show you the money. 

I think you are a bit premature in your "advertising" of the PLS. Wait until it's out of beta, or let some of us beta test. We'll be honest without the hype. If they are as good as you say they are we'll buy them if/when they actually work.


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## macdadyabc (Aug 14, 2009)

i dont like change. that light in the link looks crazy, and white not red. i agrree with
you grow boy. i remember being a kid and my dad lost or spent too much money on useless or to hyped up technology that fails. i hope no one is _too _invested in this plasma shennanigans. Thank you for trying to share your ideas though, plasmargon


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## plasmargon (Aug 14, 2009)

TeaTreeOil said:


> The problem is it peaks at 500-600 nm... basically sea-green to yellow. See attachment. The green grid and graph is a basic photosynthetic spectral response. The plasma bulb hits neither of the peaks with its peak... and peaks in the valley of the plant curve.
> 
> Halogens can do a very similar spectrum, basically.


Finally someone looking into matter logically, Ok, first of all you are showing a graph from the old Sulfur Plasma system or MPS as it was called.

PLS is a completely different animal.

http://www.lifi.com/dynamic/pdfs/ProductBulletinLIFI-STA-40Series-19June2009.pdf


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## asdfva (Aug 14, 2009)

I dig the numbers on the PDF. 

Is there a patent for your working unit?
If so, show us some flicks of it already.

EDIT: By "working unit" I meant the PLS
Lighting system he's built.


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## plasmargon (Aug 14, 2009)

asdfva said:


> I dig the numbers on the PDF.
> 
> Is there a patent for your working unit?
> If so, show us some flicks of it already.
> ...


That's why there are no pictures yet, it's all pending


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## gammaz (Aug 14, 2009)

The more I look at it the more I like it. I like the way you can distribute the light with 'pipes'. The Lamp can be in a totally different room to the plants, while allowing you to deliver light in a very targeted and modular fashion, much the same as hanging lights in/amongst/on the sides of plants, but with next to no heat emission.


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## plasmargon (Aug 14, 2009)

gammaz said:


> The more I look at it the more I like it. I like the way you can distribute the light with 'pipes'. The Lamp can be in a totally different room to the plants, while allowing you to deliver light in a very targeted and modular fashion, much the same as hanging lights in/amongst/on the sides of plants, but with next to no heat emission.




Here it comes!~ The age of light without heat! hehehehe.


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## socalsinner (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi plasmargon Please contact me regarding this product Thanks!


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## sokarempire (Aug 25, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTGsM9pplUs


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## Mr.Niceguy03 (Aug 27, 2009)

Has NE1 heard of OLEDS I believe that's the future of indoor gardenings. SP lights look like an awesome new tech aswell. Can't wait for something better and more efficient without heat issues and wasted luminens of HPS lights


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## TechnoMage (Aug 27, 2009)

Ok plasmargon, here's the deal. I love lights, light that have a computer interface sounds sweeter than sin to me. But I admit I'm skeptical.

I've actually rolled out several new products before, both hardware and software. For a finished product to customer anytime this year there would have to be some type of working prototype. I'd also assume that this prototype had been tested in a grow. What I'd like to see is pictures. All we've seen so far is charts and graphs and a lot of us have seen that before with a lot of new types of lights that just never materialized or didn't live up to their hype.

I'm not saying that your trying to jerk us around but you have to remember where a lot of us are coming from. You want to sell like gangbusters? Have the admin's of the board do some type of random drawing and you send the winner one of these lights to review.


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## rampagen08 (Aug 27, 2009)

Do we really have to flame everyone that has ANYTHING new to say?


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## Bud Frosty (Aug 27, 2009)

rampagen08 said:


> Do we really have to flame everyone that has ANYTHING new to say?


*Nope.*
*Bring it on. I love new ideas and tech.*


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## TechnoMage (Aug 27, 2009)

Honestly, I don't see that much flaming, I've seen worse. We just want something concrete.


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## rampagen08 (Aug 28, 2009)

TechnoMage said:


> Honestly, I don't see that much flaming, I've seen worse. We just want something concrete.


Well man, as sometimes patents are stolen, why would this guy post something on the web which would be free to steal and unprosecutable as the patent is pending?
patents pend for up to 5 years sometimes... hopefully we'll get to see it soon but dont bad mouth him because you cant see it now... if you were to invent something and start a patent process would you want to start getting your product out there? yes
would you give the designs and video of it working? NO
it would be stupid and you would instantly have 200 competitors with the same idea.


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## socalsinner (Aug 28, 2009)

rampagen08 said:


> Well man, as sometimes patents are stolen, why would this guy post something on the web which would be free to steal and unprosecutable as the patent is pending?
> patents pend for up to 5 years sometimes... hopefully we'll get to see it soon but dont bad mouth him because you cant see it now... if you were to invent something and start a patent process would you want to start getting your product out there? yes
> would you give the designs and video of it working? NO
> it would be stupid and you would instantly have 200 competitors with the same idea.


I for one know hes not full of shit. Im in the process of picking up one of these units for testing. The manufacturer of the device has allready sold many of their demo devices to other companies that build devices that use the light form. Once I get my device I'll post pictures . I wont have my device for a month or two. If you dont believe him do some research ... it wont take too long to prove hes right lol


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## TechnoMage (Aug 28, 2009)

As someone who is actually listed as a co-inventor on three patents now held by Microsoft, yes I would post something on the web while a patent is pending. As it happens, we started the patent process in 1996, after the code was released and they weren't awarded until 2003.

In addition, I'm not sure where patents would come into it. As I read it, he's not the manufacturer of the bulbs themselves, just putting them in a housing to be used as a grow light. Unless there's something very unique about the housing itself, prior art would prevent any patents from being issued.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, and I'm not calling anyone a liar. What I'm saying is that a lot of us have heard a very similar story time and time again, and they never live up to the hype. Getting upset with us for being skeptical in my mind is unreasonable.



rampagen08 said:


> Well man, as sometimes patents are stolen, why would this guy post something on the web which would be free to steal and unprosecutable as the patent is pending?
> patents pend for up to 5 years sometimes... hopefully we'll get to see it soon but dont bad mouth him because you cant see it now... if you were to invent something and start a patent process would you want to start getting your product out there? yes
> would you give the designs and video of it working? NO
> it would be stupid and you would instantly have 200 competitors with the same idea.


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## 420caregiver (Aug 28, 2009)

A new technology that promises to deliver ultra-efficient plasma light-bulbs, better than LEDs was developed by Luxim of Sunnyvale, California. At the size of a Tic-Tac this tiny lightbulb can provide as much light as a street lamp.

The technology seems to be simple, at least for them. Its partially packed in a dielectric material, has argon gas inside and a component called puck. The process goes like this: electric energy is being sent inside, the puck acts as a lens and heats up the argon gas up to 6,000 degrees Kelvin which in return gives off ultra-efficient bright light similar to the spectrum of sunlight.

Using 250 watts, it achieves 140 lumens per watt which is way above the standard lightbulbs and even high-end LEDs that will get 15 to 70 lumens per watt.


Read more: http://www.greenpacks.org/2008/03/24/luxims-plasma-lightbulb-tiny-and-ultra-efficient/#ixzz0PWoqryTN


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## strictly seedleSs (Aug 28, 2009)

Just because a light is super bright to our eyes, doesnt mean its the proper lighting for plant growth. Lumens dont roll into plant growth.


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## TechnoMage (Aug 28, 2009)

Hey, I would love this to be true. I've held off on getting a 400w because I didn't want to deal with extra heat. If this works as advertised, I'll buy. First I need to see it working.


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## 420caregiver (Aug 28, 2009)

TechnoMage said:


> Hey, I would love this to be true. I've held off on getting a 400w because I didn't want to deal with extra heat. If this works as advertised, I'll buy. First I need to see it working.


I just google it and thats what i came up with


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## TechnoMage (Aug 28, 2009)

You can google a test grow? I haven't found one.



420caregiver said:


> I just google it and thats what i came up with


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## grow4me (Aug 28, 2009)

I am very interested myself about this tech. If it all proves to work I want at least 1


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## 420caregiver (Aug 29, 2009)

TechnoMage said:


> You can google a test grow? I haven't found one.


 i just google plasma bulb and thats what i got


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## Purple^stars (Aug 29, 2009)

this is awesome!


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## The Warlord (Aug 29, 2009)

TechnoMage said:


> You can google a test grow? I haven't found one.


Heres a link to a dutch breeder using a sp light.
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/224480-link-sulpher-plasma-grow.html


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## plasmargon (Sep 6, 2009)

The Warlord said:


> Heres a link to a dutch breeder using a sp light.
> https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/224480-link-sulpher-plasma-grow.html


 I didn't know what I was getting into...hehehehe, but what the hay. I've been through worse.

Thanks for all of your emails supporting this new product. Yes someone is doing another grow with it in the Netherlands. He got pissed off at me trying to help, (I guess I can be a little accertive) but when you see someone making huge mistakes for the first online grow it makes you want to correct them. I messed up and got all pissy about it now I'm banned. Oh well, no harm no foul.

My way using this light is so far advanced than what they did so please don't judge what it can do based off their grow please.

I got 1.2 gm per watt per month (9 weeks bud) in my first grow. I have been forbidden by my investor to post anything and I will honor that. I'm in a hard situation that's why I haven't been posting here. It will soon be that it's proven what this will do but it wont be me proving it. Sorry.

I learned another hard lessons about informing people how to check the security of the website they post on. I couldn't believe I was banned for sharing that information on Gardens Cure. Why would they ban me for that?


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## TechnoMage (Sep 6, 2009)

Plasmargon,

I can understand if you're under some type of NDA right now but can you tell us when we're actually going to be able to see photos of a grow in progress?



plasmargon said:


> I didn't know what I was getting into...hehehehe, but what the hay. I've been through worse.
> 
> Thanks for all of your emails supporting this new product. Yes someone is doing another grow with it in the Netherlands. He got pissed off at me trying to help, (I guess I can be a little accertive) but when you see someone making huge mistakes for the first online grow it makes you want to correct them. I messed up and got all pissy about it now I'm banned. Oh well, no harm no foul.
> 
> ...


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## 420caregiver (Sep 6, 2009)

TechnoMage said:


> Plasmargon,
> 
> I can understand if you're under some type of NDA right now but can you tell us when we're actually going to be able to see photos of a grow in progress?


I am so exited please let us know how this product works out and good job!! Pictures are a great idea!!


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## plasmargon (Sep 6, 2009)

420caregiver said:


> I am so exited please let us know how this product works out and good job!! Pictures are a great idea!!


 Worth a thousand words and dollars. JK.

The initial correspondance with the pattent office went great. Soon I'll have the pattent pending status and I can open the website.

The photographer laughed outloud when I showed him what I was having him photograph, he's an old stoner.

I've designed it using the 40-02 driver which is the exact same dimensions as the upgraded model and it should be ready for sale on Halloween.


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## grow4me (Sep 7, 2009)

Cant you at least show us a pic that the photo guy took?


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## whazzup (Sep 18, 2009)

Opengrow is down because they are moving to new servers, but here are a few pics I took this afternoon


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## tom__420 (Sep 18, 2009)

Those buds look super small for having brown hairs on them........


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## whazzup (Sep 18, 2009)

well spotted... those are polinated 

One tent is a seeds grow.


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## tom__420 (Sep 18, 2009)

Okay man I was gonna say I thought they looked a little small. It's all good though if you are making seeds. What strain is it? A new one in the making?


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## whazzup (Sep 18, 2009)

I think it's a jackberry cross he is doing, other tent is KO Kush.


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## curious old fart (Sep 18, 2009)

I've been following sannie's grow, how long will his forum be down?

1 southern grower


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## whazzup (Sep 18, 2009)

we expect opengrow and wietforum.nl to be back on-line after this weekend. The brand new servers are in a secure managed datacenter now and just got ready to be installed. This should fix all the performance problems we had with the last hosting provider.


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## curious old fart (Sep 18, 2009)

Whazzup

Thanks for the fast reply. Welcome to the rollitup community.
Looking forward to the forum being back on line.
Sannie has been doing a test grow with plasma light with pictures and dialect to explain what is going on. Not only is it is well written and very informative, but the results look promising. He also has some great genetics. Highly recommended.

peace


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## tom__420 (Sep 18, 2009)

There is no way that the 400 watt light pictured next to the 250 watt plasma light is fully warmed up and at the brightest it will get


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## whazzup (Sep 19, 2009)

which 400 watt light? If you are referring to the 4 tents picture: the MH and the HPS are both 250 watt. As discussed, if you measure par light in the plasma light it's about the same as a 250 watt MH, a sodium light has far more par light (but a different distribution through the spectrum).

The plasma light btw is only 180 watt.


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## BigBudBalls (Sep 19, 2009)

420caregiver said:


>


I dunno. I find it hard to believe this pic. Its a dark room and thats a 400W? I call this *pic* BS/staged/fixed.


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## tom__420 (Sep 19, 2009)

BigBudBalls said:


> I dunno. I find it hard to believe this pic. Its a dark room and thats a 400W? I call this *pic* BS/staged/fixed.


thanks man that was the pic I was talking about. If you look at his hand over the 400 watt it is like completely dark. They prob snapped the pic the second after they plugged it in LOL


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## Slater13 (Sep 19, 2009)

Uh, ya. That 400 isnt even close to being fully lit so I agree on calling bullshit. In this day and age they couldnt come up with a video? Just a pic? Sorry but I doubt anyone here is dumb enuff to believe what they see in the pic. 

How about leaving the Halide to warm up for 10-15 min and THEN try the little side by side comparison. Come on now, were all stoners but not idiots!


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## whazzup (Sep 19, 2009)

ok, with opengrow down here a few pics of the light and the first test.

fltr:
- plasma with 100 watt red leds
- plasma
- MH
- HPS

All grows were adjusted to the same initial PPFD at plant height. As you can see 180 watt plasma light (this particular model, the STA-40-02) has about the same ppfd as MH, sodium has much more par light. Then again, the other lights are 250 watt lights, the plasma is a 180 watt light.

Of course the spectrum is a lot different. Also see the shades of the light in the foreground.


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## plasmargon (Sep 22, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTGsM9pplUs

If you look at the end of this video you'll see that the MH system was fully lit, but when the Plasma light brightens to full on, it causes the effect of the brightness on the camera to adjust making the MH light seem like it's turned off. 

It most likely has to do with the sensitivity of the camera to the full spectral output of the plasma light. Some lights seem darker on camera because the sensitivity of the camera doesn't respond to that spectral output as well.


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## bossman88188 (Sep 22, 2009)

That was a good vid.
But have you posted a grow journal with them.
Or had any other member's due test grow's.
That would be the only feedback I would trust.


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## TechnoMage (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm with bossman88188. I want to see a full grow journal from day one of flower with at a minimum, photo updates bi-weekly. HUGE trust points gained if it's done by a independent third party. I know I'm buying a new light sometime in the next 6 months to replace my 270w HPS. If I go to a 400w HPS I'm also going to have to purchase another centrifugal fan ($) to improve ventilation. I'd LOVE any solution that handles heat better.


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## tom__420 (Sep 22, 2009)

LED's might put out less heat but because they are so expensive it is still cheaper to get a 400 watt HPS and new inline fan. Not only is it cheaper but the results will be better


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## Dubby14 (Sep 23, 2009)

Several people throughout this thread have asked if there is a grow journal. Plasmargon, either yes or no. Has this been tested, if so, then where is the proof?


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## TechnoMage (Sep 23, 2009)

I'd actually pay a premium for an LED that produced less heat and equal flower growth as a 400w setup, especially if it used less wattage.



tom__420 said:


> LED's might put out less heat but because they are so expensive it is still cheaper to get a 400 watt HPS and new inline fan. Not only is it cheaper but the results will be better


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## DryGrain (Sep 23, 2009)

What's up with the shameless plug for Humboldt nutes? If these units are ready for sale by Halloween I can't imagine no-one is beta testing?


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## YouGrowBoy (Sep 23, 2009)

There is a test going on here.

https://www.opengrow.com/index.php?showtopic=40312

They are moving servers so the site is up and down until complete.


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## plasmargon (Sep 23, 2009)

Dubby14 said:


> Several people throughout this thread have asked if there is a grow journal. Plasmargon, either yes or no. Has this been tested, if so, then where is the proof?


The guys at Open grow are journaling a grow here... They are testing without UV protection, but it's their baby. Our grow was with full UV protection and we had a much better start which always leads to a better finish.

https://www.opengrow.com/index.php?showtopic=40312&st=20

This light is going to take the world by storm soon.

We are now using an ultra thin high transmission 2mm fused silica glass that filters all the UV under 310nm, while leaving 93% transmission in every other range. The glass allows us to air cool and remote place the emitter so the heat is totally isolated. My goal is to provide the best micro-climate light source that can be fitted to any cabinet.


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## Blue Moonshine1 (Sep 23, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> Plasma Light Source (PLS) systems ARE the future!
> 
> Magnetron failure was the main complaint for the old Sulfur Plasma systems, and that says a lot considering their main component was a glass bulb spinning at 1200 RPM to keep it from instantly melting and becoming a fire hazard, not to mention the fact it would be like having a microwave oven above your heads (the energy, size and weight of a microwave).
> 
> ...




WOW talk about spam and/or advertising!!!! thats crazy


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## plasmargon (Sep 23, 2009)

Blue Moonshine1 said:


> WOW talk about spam and/or advertising!!!! thats crazy


Sorry about the spam, when I first discovered this light, I was so excited I told everyone I could with enthusiasm, but it wasn't taken with the same enthusiasm. I can say this, no one is going to remember me, but this light will change the future of lighting.

I watched so many people get ripped off in the LED mayhem. I never fell for it because it just didn't add up...well this light in it's first offering kicks the shit out of ten years of LED research. That's all I got to say about it.

When I saw what this light can do...oh my.

I have to be a good boy now.


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## plasmargon (Sep 24, 2009)

P.S. I'm not connected with Humboldt directly but I can tell you there is no better source of nutrients than Amino Acid Chelates. Humboldt also teaches people how to culture what they need, instead of ripping people off by having them continually buy and supplement what can be grown in a bucket with just a pinch of starter bacterium/ inoculates, water and some dried molasses. Sounds like a company I would support.


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## plasmargon (Sep 27, 2009)

I am grateful for the oportunity to share this information with you all.

I never intended to upset or alienate anyone in these posts just to share the best discovery ever made in the indoor horticultural world. Soon, grows with this light will be posted by multiple users which is something that I cannot do. There are laws about being a business connected directly to grow ops which is why Gavita, Syvania, Eye Hortilux and every other light manufacturer in the world will not sponsor grows openly, so I am being cautious.

Here's a new bit of information directly from Luxim... the 41-02 (new; 30% increase across the board) which is the emitter we will use in our offering (better than the ones on OpenGrow) will be in production in February now. So we will be pushing our release date to Feb/2010 sorry for delay.

Thanks for your patience, and I ask for this thread to close. Peace.


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## whazzup (Sep 27, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> The guys at Open grow are journaling a grow here... They are testing without UV protection, but it's their baby. Our grow was with full UV protection and we had a much better start which always leads to a better finish.
> 
> https://www.opengrow.com/index.php?showtopic=40312&st=20


There is no way to tell since you don't share your results unfortunately. Personally I don't judge until I see a result. 



plasmargon said:


> We are now using an ultra thin high transmission 2mm fused silica glass that filters all the UV under 310nm, while leaving 93% transmission in every other range.


I'm sorry I'm a bit lost now. The (clean) 5 mm glass you used before only lost (according to your measurements) 5-10%? So thinner is worse? Are you only going to use a 20 degrees angle max?


> With the 5mm cool tube he only lost at most under the light meter 5-10% of the light. I saw the meter myself and he showed me how directly under the light only lost 5% and off axis by 20 degrees or more was 10% less light


I'm glad we gave you a good idea, when are you going to test it? Has the second trial with the UVB radiation at the end started already?

I suppose you will keep the (microwave) driver close to the emitter as extending the length of that coax cable costs a lot of power too, at least another 5%. But I still don't get why you want to lose 7% of your light (according to your measurements again, personally I think it is more) because the heat is not an issue (2-3 degrees C warmer than exterior temperature in the tent) and we don't think the UVB is a problem either (see the test for that).

edit: I see that you have delayed your launch to wat for the new model. I would certainly suggest to take some time to test it too. Btw it's no secret that Gavita provided the lights for our test. You could do the same with any other grower


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## whazzup (Sep 27, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> Here's a new bit of information directly from Luxim... the 41-02 (new; 30% increase across the board) which is the emitter we will use in our offering (better than the ones on OpenGrow) will be in production in February now. So we will be pushing our release date to Feb/2010 sorry for delay.


Don't forget to mention they are also better than you ones you tested (once). "The ones on opengrow" will have at least 7% extra light though


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## plasmargon (Oct 5, 2009)

whazzup said:


> Don't forget to mention they are also better than you ones you tested (once). "The ones on opengrow" will have at least 7% extra light though


Hello Whazzup,

The new LIFI 41-02 emitter will have the same spectral output as the 40-02 that you guys are testing (good job by the way) but it will increase the photon yield by almost 30%. So according to our estimates, with the reflector (which does increase the light output almost 25% confirmed by the way) and ability to get the light even closer to the tops, those variables alone will cross cancel the average 6.8% reduction in overall spectral output in every frequency above 310nm with a hard knee cutoff below the narrow band 310nm. We are using a very expensive special glass type. 

The cool tube I used before was a fused silica tube which also transmits 93% of the energy above 400nm. But as you can see it took out all the UV.

We will only use the coaxial length recommended for the product, but our unique configuration will allow the heat of the Driver (40% of the total) to be emitted outside the growth chamber, while permitting the novel approach of isolating 90% of the total heat from the emitter by air cooling it directly, isolated directly from the chamber so no special air handling requirements. 

I'm just waiting for the 41-02 driver which has been pushed to January, and for my Patent Pending status. Then you can all see it.

The benefits are amazing! All that light with almost no heat at all! Our system will be easy to install in any cabinet with one hole and drop it in. With less heat in the chamber we can slow the airflow down to meet the requirements of the CO2 replenishment. The number 1 problem in small chambers is to high of air currents needed to keep the temp down thus drying out the substrata and causing less than ideal conditions for the plants transpiration process.

I'm sorry for the problems before but I get really excited when I pour myself into a project. 

At least I can say I was the first in America to recognize the potential of this light. Peace.


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## Airwave (Oct 5, 2009)

Any idea what the price range is going to be?


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## The Warlord (Oct 5, 2009)

Airwave said:


> Any idea what the price range is going to be?


Ditto. Thats the important question.


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## guitarzan420 (Oct 5, 2009)

he said around 900 + shipping


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## plasmargon (Oct 5, 2009)

guitarzan420 said:


> he said around 900 + shipping


Yes I'll be selling it cheaper than you can buy it direct, and we include an air cooled reflector and UV-C filter for $900 with a two year warranty on parts.


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## plasmargon (Oct 5, 2009)

Also, because of the very low heat coefficient inside the chamber there is no need for huge amounts of air handling. The problem is; every charcoal filter in current production needs a minimum air pressure and the smallest rating for proper contact time is 350 CFM to accomplish it's goal of scrubbing the smell. Well in a chamber that only has around 50 cubic feet then you are completely replacing the air 7 times per minute which is way too active, and in effect your plants are used as a humidifier wick.

We have discovered a better alternative that at it's lowest setting only draws 7watts of power and doesn't poison the atmosphere with ozone. It's a new technology from Japan and it's ideal for our micro-climate growth chambers. This setup kicks the &$#* out of any small growth chamber I've ever seen.


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## tribibhum (Oct 5, 2009)

Hi Nev! Enjoyed the interesting tour along this very scenic route. It is certainly a long and narrow peninsular with beautiful photographic opportunities along the way. Enjoy your holiday and thanks for sharing.. Gladys.


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## JimmyPot (Oct 5, 2009)

Future it is history for me.Donated my plasma for three months to buy my gear lol Just kidding thats crazy!I bought a motorcycle.


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## TechnoMage (Oct 5, 2009)

You totally lost me here. I've using a 4" Vortex fan that's only 172 CFM with my carbon filter and it's works fine. No smell and my cab is only 2 degrees above ambient. Well actually the room is 69.4 right now and my cab is 71.6, so 2.2 degrees. 

You need to quit telling us about all this great new equipment when you're not selling it. All you're doing is frustrating us. Equipment tease. 



plasmargon said:


> Also, because of the very low heat coefficient inside the chamber there is no need for huge amounts of air handling. The problem is; every charcoal filter in current production needs a minimum air pressure and the smallest rating for proper contact time is 350 CFM to accomplish it's goal of scrubbing the smell. Well in a chamber that only has around 50 cubic feet then you are completely replacing the air 7 times per minute which is way too active, and in effect your plants are used as a humidifier wick.
> 
> We have discovered a better alternative that at it's lowest setting only draws 7watts of power and doesn't poison the atmosphere with ozone. It's a new technology from Japan and it's ideal for our micro-climate growth chambers. This setup kicks the &$#* out of any small growth chamber I've ever seen.


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## kmo8762 (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm interested, if it works


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## Speaker Box D (Oct 6, 2009)

Saw that journal on that other site, it does look impressive, but like others said for the most of us price/performace is the reality. I mean some said its "light without heat" Sounds great, it would've been alot better if he threw in a temp/humid gauge in that tent to see it day to day. i know at the end, its quality and quantity for the majority.

If someone, a noteable seasoned grower such as "roseman" on here would be given one to test, and show us that journal, then i think this new model 'might' live up to its whoas and wows 

BUT for now, as the "doc" said its all in testing, and thats all we can see.


Speaker Box D


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## plasmargon (Oct 7, 2009)

kmo8762 said:


> I'm interested, if it works


You know what Technomage, I looked into what you said and found some killer new low volume filters from Phat filters and this might be real promissing.

I've always wanted a filter that works on the output stage of the fan instead of the intake and now they make the new OdorSoc. That to me looks real promising but I went to thier website and it looks like it's under construct or something. 

Anyways it would be cool to have a real solid low volume airfilter. The ones from Japan are great but very expensive @ $300.

The point is, you only need to change the air twice per minute to exchange gasses when the temp is this low, then we're talking ballance inside the small space.

We have to actually heat the bottom of our chambers in order to keep the roots at the right temp 68 F. We use standard 4' wide by 2.5' deep, by 6' high cabinets and install heat cable under the bottom secured shelf and a digital root mat controller (sensor in the planter if not rotating) and it heats the whole cabinet just right. The air intake is filtered with pre-filter material to keep out the bugs and dust etc. and is mounted in the roof of the cabinet for more equalized temp input.


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## i8urbabi (Oct 11, 2009)

my work has some of the Luxim plasma bulbs in the parkinglot sreet lights. they are so small. like a plain tylenol yet they are wayyy brighter than anything ive seen. the whole ballast assembly fits in your hand and it pretty much doesnt get any hotter than your hand either. they are for sale commercially. and def. still in commercial prices. but consider it like LED's to HID prices for now. But these def. have ANYTHING beat for power consumption, heat, lumens. literally everything. only the sun can top it.


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## whazzup (Oct 14, 2009)

With all respect, I still don't see a heat problem with these lights though. In our test grow the temperature doesn't rise more than 2,5 - 3 degrees in a 80x80x160 cm tent with minimal ventilation. Why make it so complicated? Is that just because you use the UV filter and have like a closed hood? I see no other reason why you would need to cool a unit like this. As you said, the new system will have 30% more light with the same power, enabling it to light a bigger area. Imho that also means that the distance between the light and the crop needs to increase to prevent hotspots and create a more uniform lighting, even with a reflector. As the light itself generates very little heat and the driver dissipates most, that heat never reaches the plants as it is extracted right away, being so close to the extraction and so far away from the plants. It doesn't radiate heat on your plant and causes the room to hardly warm up at plant height. 

Also, I don't see the need to get these lights any closer to the plants than they already are (50 cm) as with the increase in output (30%) and the increase in light by the reflector (lots of %) you already get a lot of light on your plants.

It's great to create a lab-like growing environment but I think most growers just want to put great genetics under a great lights, pamper them with great nutes to produce the best tasting buds and/or the highest yields. I just think you overcomplicate things too much in your effort to optimize, like the turners. Imho the simplest systems are the best systems, as they are "user proof".


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## plasmargon (Oct 14, 2009)

Hey Wazzup,
The mission I'm on...is to make the best Micro-climate growth chamber ever and this light is the missing piece of the equasion. The restrictions of HID lighting made it very dificult to design an efficient easy to operate system...but now I have everything I need to set records. This is a quantum leap forward in small growth chamber lighting. 
I have been studying the limits and restrictions of small lit environs for many years and have lots of data to go by. The reasons for the isolation of absolutely any heat in the grow area is obvious, plants love to be in 68-70 F (20-21 C) temps with the roots minimum 65 F (18 c) with atmospheric co2 levels. If you can stay around these temps throughout the whole process except seed/ clone you will overcome almost anything else you can throw at 'em and still do good. If you keep the temp in this zone and maximize every other requirement without any stress...yields can emulate an outdoor grow. That is my goal and now it is possible.

In a Micro-Climate growth chamber using continual atmospheric CO2 replenishment 10-12 degrees F (6 degree C) over average room temp is too high. I get it down to less than 3 degrees F temp difference without the need for massive air movement, keeping the transpiration at the perfect levels based off of years of research. That's why I air cooled/ remote placed the system. I'm using this light to create an all in one system that can be fit to any cabinet that has more than 20 Cubic ft volume so people can build their own growth chamber with my patented system. I have one design for isolated lighting (cools only the light) for CO2 enriched environments and I just finished designing an all-in-one system that includes a charcoal filter for using atmospheric CO2 and controlling smell. There will be no better system for under a $1000 and it will be able to fit into ANY growth chamber/ cabinet. WE WILL BE THE BEST!


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## Trailer Park Boy (Oct 14, 2009)

It all sounds good to me. If it's as good as it's made out to be, my HPS's and MH's will probably end up in the trash or on Ebay for cheeep. However, I do have the patience to sit around and wait before investing big money in this shit- reason being, new technology is always top dollar, but after a few years go by it gets much cheaper. A perfect example of this would be the early digital LED watches ($700+ in 1969; $5 in 1976) and digital cameras, along w/ many other things. Also, w/ time new products/ technologies get the shake-down and battle trials and through this more efficiency and evolved development. I will def keep my eyes on this shit tho', looks like it could be the future of indoor growing.


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## plasmargon (Oct 14, 2009)

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, this whole system will take less than 280watts per hour to operate...No flags going off at the electric co.


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## plasmargon (Oct 14, 2009)

The all-in-one will also provide the option for taking the highest quality UV-C filter lens out of the light path.


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## Integra21 (Oct 14, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> Hey Wazzup,
> The mission I'm on...is to make the best Micro-climate growth chamber ever and this light is the missing piece of the equasion. The restrictions of HID lighting made it very dificult to design an efficient easy to operate system...but now I have everything I need to set records. This is a quantum leap forward in small growth chamber lighting.
> I have been studying the limits and restrictions of small lit environs for many years and have lots of data to go by. The reasons for the isolation of absolutely any heat in the grow area is obvious, plants love to be in 68-70 F (20-21 C) temps with the roots minimum 65 F (18 c) with atmospheric co2 levels. If you can stay around these temps throughout the whole process except seed/ clone you will overcome almost anything else you can throw at 'em and still do good. If you keep the temp in this zone and maximize every other requirement without any stress...yields can emulate an outdoor grow. That is my goal and now it is possible.
> 
> In a Micro-Climate growth chamber using continual atmospheric CO2 replenishment 10-12 degrees F (6 degree C) over average room temp is too high. I get it down to less than 3 degrees F temp difference without the need for massive air movement, keeping the transpiration at the perfect levels based off of years of research. That's why I air cooled/ remote placed the system. I'm using this light to create an all in one system that can be fit to any cabinet that has more than 20 Cubic ft volume so people can build their own growth chamber with my patented system. I have one design for isolated lighting (cools only the light) for CO2 enriched environments and I just finished designing an all-in-one system that includes a charcoal filter for using atmospheric CO2 and controlling smell. There will be no better system for under a $1000 and it will be able to fit into ANY growth chamber/ cabinet. WE WILL BE THE BEST!


I'm following this thread, and really liking the turnout so far on sanie's grow an can only imagine how much better it would do 6" from the light instead of his 50cm height. But when will info, tech specs, and relaese date be available. I am in the market for a new light and was ondering it any were going to be available soon, or it there were beta test spots open. I have developed my grow and am improving more and this light seems like it would coplete the room.


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## plasmargon (Oct 14, 2009)

@Whazzup, your air handling system is also special in that it is used by three tents at the same time. You also told me about dialing down the airflow, which is great but I'll bet you still change the air at least 4 times per minute to keep the heat down to where you say it is and for the Charcoal filter to work properly.

I only need to change the air according to the perfect gas exchange/ transpiration needs.

As an engineer the main problem I see with your setup is, you let the heat from the Emitter and the Driver circulate in the tent BEFORE venting. Which causes the whole area temp to rise no matter how high the airflow. Too high of airflow causes the medium to dry out too fast and transpiration problems.

Oh yeah, not to mention changing the relative humidity of the environment by the addition of heat. It's easier to controll humidity if there is no added heat.


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## plasmargon (Oct 14, 2009)

This system will be released late January. Unless you want to buy the 40-02 system now, if you can't wait. So many people want it NOW I'm actually tempted to give it to them.


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## Integra21 (Oct 15, 2009)

Send me a pm with prices. I am looking for near furure. If it perfors like I expect it to, I will be buying a new one as well in January. But seeing if something will be available in the next month or so.


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## whazzup (Oct 15, 2009)

hehe well we do not change the air twice every minute. There is no odour problem at all with the fan running at a minimum of 30%. There is something called pressure drop in the system, which brings the ventilation down to a very low minimum. 

I would be surprised if you can deliver a complete system for less than 1000 dollars: I guess you need the new cooler, the turners and some sort of fan and filter too. 

I think it is clear that you are designing for a small specific group of growers in a micro environment. I know a lot of medicinal growers for whom a 400 watt grow is not enough by far to grow them enough medicine. But We'll see.


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## Integra21 (Oct 15, 2009)

If you cant grow a personal stash with a 400w light, you need to rethink your setup. I'm kicking out 10oz's off of a 400w and if 5oz. a month isnt enough, I think you smoke too much. More like a commercial grower cant supply a city or a dispensary a neighborhood with a 400w light.


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## plasmargon (Oct 15, 2009)

Integra21 said:


> If you cant grow a personal stash with a 400w light, you need to rethink your setup. I'm kicking out 10oz's off of a 400w and if 5oz. a month isnt enough, I think you smoke too much. More like a commercial grower cant supply a city or a dispensary a neighborhood with a 400w light.


I totally agree Integra. From what I've learned in designing micro-climates for so long and hearing feedback, they love the approach of the least amount of input with the greatest output. That's what I give em.
In the circles I roll in, we rate our systems by gram/watt/month equasion and we haven't done less than 1.2 in a long time...well on the first try with this light we matched that output plus a little. So now that better ideas are coming out of the brain works We have approached this from a completely fresh minset and have lots of room for error because of the design.
I think the average person who I've met wants to be able to get that kind of harvest consistantly without a lot of complexity. That's what we aim to give em. If they know how to follow directions without ADDING anything they will get close to the average yield.
Oh by the way, the all-in-one PLS (I'm sticking with Plasma Light Source not LEP) does not include the turners they're $150 each. But it does include; The Emitter /Driver /power supply and the Air-cooled housing with the very expensive uv-c/b shield and the fan for the air cooling runs the exhaust through a carbon filter. It's so perfectly simple.
anyone can grow with this design. It's THAT forgiving.

With all due respect, on the subject of need for patients...if they smoke more than 5ozs per month...that's probably why they're sick (again respectfully). I'm a total advocate for Vaporizers. That's what I gave all my friends for Christmas last year...they really liked that.


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## whazzup (Oct 16, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> With all due respect, on the subject of need for patients...if they smoke more than 5ozs per month...that's probably why they're sick (again respectfully).


First of all, imho that is not respectful. I am dealing with pain patients that are at the top (or actually a bit over the top) of the maximum dose of morphine they can have per day. The cannabis not only lowers the dosage a bit but makes them cope with everyday life. From a 400 watt grow in scrog, which lasts about 10-14 weeks (depending on the strain that works for them) they can harvest about a gram per watt (that's more than 14 oz). Of course not every beginning grower accomplishes that, so let's say they do get 10-12 oz. Because of the the law in the Netherlands they can't have more than 5 plants. Growing in The Netherlands still isn't legal, but up to 5 plants is regarded home use. So there are different circumstances everywhere. Another thing is that those people are usually the ones without a regular income because they can't work. So their set-up needs to be simple and efficient. For many it is even hard to do a grow anyway because of their condition. 3 grams per day is not a very heavy dose for them. Not saying this is a typical medicinal user but these are the cases I am dealing with here, it's why I breed the Anesthesia. 

Cannabis activist and medicinal user Jacqueline Woerlee has Crohn disease. She has a recipe for 15 grams of cannabis per day. These are not isolated cases, I'm not talking about wannabe medicinal stoners, no disrespect at all to real medicinal users.

Now I don't know what yields you are talking about under the 180 watt plasma lights but surely not 14 oz for a starting grower. And though I am sure for many, and probably most of the medicinal smokers and light recreational users it will be enough there is a serious group of patients that will not be able to even buy the setup, let alone be able to harvest enough cannabis for their own use (and I did not even consider the many couples that are both medicinal smokers. 

For those who can afford it and are really into growing, have enough money to invest andthe right location for it, I'm sure it will be a blessing. 

About the climate control in the system used: The fan and filter are rightsized for the application, and I can assure you there are no odour leaks in this filter. Climate control is not a real issue with these temperatures. It's not hard to buy a fan and a filter that work well under these circumstances. The rooms are 2 x 1 cubic meter and 1 x 2 cubic meter. We expect the fan to extract about 300 cubic meters per hour. So all rooms are refreshed about 75 times per hour. That's 1.25 times per minute. Now I'm sure this could easily be right-sized for any small grow room with the proper filters and fans for very little money. The intake is passive from the room itself, which is 20 degrees Celsius. It's a very normal very low-tech set-up without any special lab equipment (other than the nice PLC controls which are just luxury).

There is no climate problem with plasma, that's one of the main benefits!


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## whazzup (Oct 17, 2009)

I took Ed Rosenthal to Sannie this afternoon. He was impressed with the light and the results. He is all for UVB and he agrees that the intense trichome development can be explained by that. He recommended increasing the temperature a bit to 26 degrees.


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## plasmargon (Oct 17, 2009)

whazzup said:


> I took Ed Rosenthal to Sannie this afternoon. He was impressed with the light and the results. He is all for UVB and he agrees that the intense trichome development can be explained by that. He recommended increasing the temperature a bit to 26 degrees.


Whazzup, first of all I reitterated that I meant the comment repectfully. Because I know the hard luck cases. I meant the self medicating types who end up having more problems than they would if they used approprietly. You know who I meant.

Secondly; if Ed is with you all the way from California that would really be shitty of you, since you knew I was trying to hook up with him again. 

So if I read you correctly, you are still trying to push my buttons, and that sucks since we have the same vendor. ...Edited by Plasmargon..., you are their guy right?


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## TechnoMage (Oct 18, 2009)

whazzup said:


> I took Ed Rosenthal to Sannie this afternoon. He was impressed with the light and the results. He is all for UVB and he agrees that the intense trichome development can be explained by that. He recommended increasing the temperature a bit to 26 degrees.


I thought he was in Amsterdam for another couple of weeks. Why did he come back early?


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## plasmargon (Oct 18, 2009)

Hey Ed,

Tried to get in touch with you a couple of months ago through your blog spot, I lost touch with the people we knew together in the eighties. I wanted to ask if you want to try out these new Plasma lights. Someone from your area contacted me after I left a message but I never got a call back.

We met back in 86 through mutual friends in the Freedom Fighters after I met Jack Herer when he came to Fairbanks Alaska in 85 durring the repeal of the Raven act. If you don't remember me I was the rocker from AK. I worked as sound engineer for Ozzy and many others. Anyways we should catch up.

I think having you for a spokesman on this new product would be ideal (Hortilux was foolish for turning you down). Peace.


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## plasmargon (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm sure Ed would agree that the part of the UV-B that we are really looking for is UV-B narrow band (310 nm) the area that is being experimented with here in the US. There is gold in that range.

There is nothing beneficial about any frequency below 310 nm and this has been repeatedly proven over and over in tests. That's why plants greenhouse grown under UV-C/B shielded glass for the first half of it's life spread more quickly and yield more than grown naked outdoors, probably because of the early root developement.


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## plasmargon (Oct 18, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> I'm sure Ed would agree that the part of the UV-B that we are really looking for is UV-B narrow band (310 nm) the area that is being experimented with here in the US. There is gold in that range.
> 
> There is nothing beneficial about any frequency below 310 nm and this has been repeatedly proven over and over in tests. That's why plants greenhouse grown under UV-C/B shielded glass for the first half of it's life spread more quickly and yield more than grown naked outdoors, probably because of the early root developement.


The problem is, finding a light source that doesn't drift much in it's frequency response, lights that are right on one month drift the next month. So you get widely differing results.

My solution is having a glass filter that cuts everything off under 310nm so it's not up to the sensitive bulb to regulate.


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## plasmargon (Oct 18, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> The problem is, finding a light source that doesn't drift much in it's frequency response, lights that are right on one month drift the next month. So you get widely differing results.
> 
> My solution is having a glass filter that cuts everything off under 310nm so it's not up to the sensitive bulb to regulate.


One last thing Whazzup;
the only way you could or should consider higher temps are if you will be supplimenting CO2. That is the next level in Micro Climate Chambers. But then you have to have a sealed system so the light is cooled on it's own like our 'Sealed system'. Then you could continually cool the light while maintaining the CO2 levels. We use a 'Fuzzy Logic' CO2 monitor/ regulator from Sentry that mimics the best attributes of the Harvest Master without the price.

But even then, I would recommend UV shielding until the end of the veg stage for root developement THEN (after transplanting) UV stress the plants. This in conjunction with the increased CO2 and heat for some strange reason has been proven to increase yeilds. But the problem with that setup remains...the tops get hotter than the rest of the plant in most cases. So if you boost the room to 88-90 degrees F with 1250 ppm CO2, you have to be very carefull about the tops. So this technique is rarely used and only by those who really know what they're doing. Not something we want to try to mass produce.

But we know of better ways to get increased yields without the hassle or cost of CO2 enrichment. My plant rotators are the perfect example.


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## whazzup (Oct 18, 2009)

Are you replying and quoting yourself now Plasmargon? To be perfectly honest, I did not steal any ideas of you, I think we gave you more inspiration throughout the test process. Listen, you are the US distributor and Gavita is the European distributor right? So what is your problem? We do things different in Europe, and we both try to make a good product based on the LEP from Luxim (yes, we follow Luxim with the LEP). You were surprised that the high dose UVB did not kill our plants and adjusted your system. You took our remarks about the light loss of the glass serious and found a different material for that. Now who is inspiring who?

I ran into Ed at the Hortifair this week, it was not planned at all. Our German Plasma friends were on the trade show as well with their high power sulphur plasma lights. He was interested in the Plasma lights and wanted to see them, so I showed him. 

If you want to contact Ed why don't you or haven't you done that before? I'm sure he will be interested, especially him being your friend. You make it sound like a personal battle "who gets Ed". If you know Ed you should know better than that. As a colleague writer I just shared our information, just like we do on the net.

Actually I even told him about your project too and the different views we had. I'm not going to talk for Ed and his recommendation to use CO2. Ed is a strong believer in CO2, I'm not going to have that discussion with you. We don't use CO2 in this grow. If you want to talk about CO2 with Ed, talk to Ed, not to me. I was just relaying his observations.

We had a long talk about light and his experiments with large doses of UVB light, which in his view is responsible for the great trichome development.

Please, let's stick to facts and openness to share with the growing community. We have a different approach to the product and how we share our trial with the market. I think it was you who mentioned that your friend Ed always said that you should be able to put your baby under the lights. you make it sound like a personal vendetta while I am just giving responses to your posts. 

So, according to our obeservations and measurements: You have no climate problem with Plasma. You don't need to cool the light. 

About your remarks about medicinal users: If you meant "the self medicating types who end up having more problems than they would if they used approprietly" you assume that I was talking about wannabe medicinal users. No, I am always talking about the small percentage real medicinal users. Not the ones who bought a card to legitimize their pot use. Personally I think that's a big problem for the medicinal cannabis community, and taking the piss out of the real cases like this is not respectful. Did we forget who the real needy medicinal users are? No disrespect to everyone who finds comfort and relief in smoking pot, but for some people it's a way of surviving.


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## whazzup (Oct 18, 2009)

oh, just for the record: Ed uses air cooled lights too


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## whazzup (Oct 18, 2009)

Reading back your posts I think I once more need to stress the fact that I do not work for Gavita. I am coordinating this test for our dutch and international forum, wietforum and opengrow. I am not going into personal battles, I am just discussing the product and how we think it can be used best. 

One thing though:


plasmargon said:


> The problem is, finding a light source that doesn't drift much in it's frequency response, lights that are right on one month drift the next month. So you get widely differing results.
> 
> My solution is having a glass filter that cuts everything off under 310nm so it's not up to the sensitive bulb to regulate.


So now what you are saying is that you use the shield because the LEP isn't stable in it's UV frequency response?


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## plasmargon (Oct 18, 2009)

whazzup said:


> Reading back your posts I think I once more need to stress the fact that I do not work for Gavita. I am coordinating this test for our dutch and international forum, wietforum and opengrow. I am not going into personal battles, I am just discussing the product and how we think it can be used best.
> 
> One thing though:
> 
> So now what you are saying is that you use the shield because the LEP isn't stable in it's UV frequency response?


Yeah, just like any light through time there is a shift in radiant energy. So I had to stablize it to get that specific response. It's like using a Equalizer in sound, roll off the unwanted frequecy response using a hard knee cut off filter.

And about the use of Sannies grow to improve my system...of course I'm gonna do that! I even told you right from the start that I was excited that they survived because of what it meant in my design. I've been completely honest about that. 

Sorry about being sensitive, but I know you knew I was trying to get Ed to help, but you are right, there's plenty of room for him to help us (in the US) as well as you if he chooses. 

I think we need to re-evaluate how we respond to each other.

I have been trying to make peace with your camp by peace offerings, but they are always shoved back in my face. 

I have your correspondence when you said you where the man with Gavita (you injected yourself on Opengrow when I thought Doc was the man with Gavita)...so if there is anything to be said about that I'll have the resources to prove it. Look at your response above here...you keep using the word WE. But for now I apologize for the response.

Can we get past this? Thanks.

P.S. I wasn't responding to myself I was filling in missing pieces to clairify.


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## plasmargon (Oct 18, 2009)

And yes, yes, yes to your clairification of the Medicinal user. That is exactly what I was trying to say. I see it every week. Plus, I haven't got to talk to Ed for a long time, he may have changed his opinion about UV, but I think we are seeing the refinement that the whole community is discovering about the same time.

UV-B narrow band (between UV-A and B) and up; very good...UV-B and below Baaaaad.

I'm sharing with you something of great import. I hope you see the value and desire for peace through this. I also hope the terrible direction of the politics over there is corrected, look at what happened to Alaska after they took the Raven act out of the constitutional interpretation...things became a police state, That sucks. Peace...


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## plasmargon (Oct 18, 2009)

Ed, love the hair dude! You still rock don't you! Get in touch with me. [email protected]


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## whazzup (Oct 18, 2009)

I have no problems just talking about the product. I seldom get emotional about it but I just don't like discussions without common shared data. So all I have to go on is my own data. It's not to rattle your bones, we have a difference in opinion and approach to the development, the technology and the openness in which we do our tests, and we operate on a different market. It's a sort of a culture clash. 

I understand you are passionate about your product, but it sometimes feels like you are trying to prevent me getting to know your daughter 

You don't publish a lot of data. So every time you release some I jump on it and ask about it, or question it if I think it doesn't make sense. So I have this image in my head of an air-cooled LEP with a reflector and a thick long coax lead to the driver outside the room that only lights a very snall space very intensely (I don't even know how many plants and what surface), through turners that distribute the light more evenly and from more sides to the plant. For flowering I have no idea how you are going to light that space with the same reflector without hanging it a lot higher, and I have no idea how you want to apply some UVB in the last weeks without removing your shield, and I have no idea how you are going to complement the spectrum (or if you are). I read things about special cooling units, yet I have no idea what you have in mind as we see no temperature problem at all. Surely as the distributor for the hydroponics market in the US you can elaborate a bit more about your system, the way it works, why it works and what you can achieve with it. There is nobody else who is going to sell it in the US. I mean if you planned to do business with the distributors who ban any canna related public activities, or had an investor that did not want to be related to cannabis, you would already have crossed that line. So why don't you share with us your views on your microclimate room? We all understand that products evolve, just like your filter evolved and maybe you will find an even better material, but that doesn't change the basic setup and grow method. So here's my invitation to you!

I am _for this test_ the contact to Gavita as I manage the project. Inquiries about the project are handled by me as I both have the close contact with sannie and Gavita. Doc is the leading man from Gavitas distributor for the Hydroponics market KJ Products, so naturally he has access to the same resources as I have. I think we explained that a few times on Opengrow. This test is originally a wietforum test, where I manage a section in which our members test new cutting edge and not so cutting edge technology, with products from different suppliers and manufacturers. We did a test on the re-introduction of the Gavita IR lamps, which were very popular amongst the local growers and breeders. So I already was in contact with Gavita. When I sent my request for information to Luxim early this year, I got an answer from Gavita through their local distributor . It's funny sometimes how small the world is. I published my first review of the light in an editorial about light basics in Dutch EssensiE Magazine August issue.

But back on topic: So basically what you did is apply a high-pass filter, which filters out the wavelengths below UVA, including all UVB. But it does not "stabilise"(I'd rather say filter) the light spectrum above the 320 nm, it's just a barrier for that light. So, do I understand correctly that you are saying that only under 320 nm the LEP light is instable? If not, how does the filter help stabilise the rest of the spectral output of the lamp?


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## The Warlord (Oct 18, 2009)

TechnoMage said:


> I thought he was in Amsterdam for another couple of weeks. Why did he come back early?


 
He's talking about sannies grow IN holland.


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## whazzup (Oct 18, 2009)

sorry I missed that.. He'll be back soon, we won't keep him hostage


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## DryGrain (Oct 19, 2009)

lol youre all over ed rosenthals nuts


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## plasmargon (Oct 21, 2009)

@Drygrain, dude if you only wish you knew what this guy knows and my gorgeous fantastic wife told me to tell you to keep Ed's nuts out of your mouth and this topic.


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## plasmargon (Oct 21, 2009)

whazzup said:


> I have no problems just talking about the product. I seldom get emotional about it but I just don't like discussions without common shared data. So all I have to go on is my own data. It's not to rattle your bones, we have a difference in opinion and approach to the development, the technology and the openness in which we do our tests, and we operate on a different market. It's a sort of a culture clash.
> 
> I understand you are passionate about your product, but it sometimes feels like you are trying to prevent me getting to know your daughter
> 
> ...


I love Gavita IR lights, if they could be water cooled that would be so awesome. But since they can't be I used them only for larger rooms.

On the LEP (PLS), just like every light, there is a spectral shift at the end of it's life. It shifts to the blue. So I determined that I would cut off everything BELOW 310nm. so toward the end of the life of the LEP the good UV will actually rise. the response is pretty much a flat line above 400nm fading in the red, so it all just shifts over. The only problem is there is less red then. So if people keep their emitters longer to get the extra 'Happy UV' I recommend red supplimentation LED's in the 662nm and 642nm range.

The rest of the info that I know you're looking for will be supplied after I get the US Pattent pending status.


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## whazzup (Oct 21, 2009)

Here's an interesting one for you. When the light starts up changing from up from UV trough blue to adding more red to get a full spectrum as the plasma warms up (attached).

I'm sure you have read about the research about UVC fungus control. 

It might well be that this is a little extra you would get for free. 

I think it would be wise to change the cell well before 12.000 hours (as average the light drops to 80%). That's still a lot of hours btw, If you grow 12/12 constantly it's more than 3 years. 18/6 every 2 years. Fortunately it's just a little cell to change. But no grower will wait until he has 20% less light. So I think that the frequency shift won't be that bad. The old cell is still nice for theatre use 

Quote luxim: "At 30,000 hours, the lumen maintenance or the amount of light output as a percentage of initial output is above 65% on average. Lighting installers typically perform group re-lamping when the light output is 70% of original brightness; the 70% lumen maintenance occurs at 25,000 hours for a typical LIFI source." So at 12,000 hours we not even half way its life. 

I believe that frequencies shift in every light, but I have not seen any strong indications, reports or expectations that this should lead to very harmful radiation. 

The other aspect of the matter is that for this assumption you are still willing to sacrifice (in ideal situations) at least 5% light, and with a remote driver even up to 10% or more. Personally I'd rather bring the light a bit further from the crop. 

But we'll wait for the patent

In the meanwhile: The first seeds are looking very good, not very sterile


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## Integra21 (Oct 21, 2009)

great looking seeds. Sanie is a true master. Have a bunch of his genetics in my "to get"list.


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## l333t (Oct 21, 2009)

plasma going to take forever for the most grow to convert but this cool plus i heard bad things about leds for flowering


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## plasmargon (Oct 21, 2009)

Very cool guys, I'm grateful for the knowledge. Good job Sannie. (it will be really cool if there is no residual genetic effect)

How did the yield do for your un-seeded chamber?

I also love how reliable these lights are...that's definately one of the better selling points, only losing 20% after 3 years. 

I don't think people realize the potential here. I got excited the moment I saw this light last year and it hasn't disapointed me in the least. This is the first major leap forward in horticultural lighting since digital ballasts. They've only had less than a year in the exploring the use of this for growing...imagine where it will be in the time LED's have had to dissapoint everyone. 

In my use of turntables and micro-climate chambers LED supplimentaion is very easy to get close and distributed. Focus individual clusters at the canopy and the turntables do thier job, the whole plant gets major amounts of RED on top of the perfect foundation of light, LEP!


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## plasmargon (Oct 21, 2009)

Oh yeah about the warm up time, the same effect is accomplished as you know from turning the fader down. Major shift to the blue range.

The reason I call this light the perfect foundational light is; it hits all the foundational spectral frequecies for Root and foliage production, then ADD red LED's for the perfect budding combo. There isn't a light out there that can hit all the needed PAR frequencies without wasting major amounts of light. With this 180 Watt LEP system and half again the amount of RED LED's (100 total watts in very close proximity) in the 662nm and 642 range, puts just the right lobe in the Red side of spectral response. Now we're talkin PAR!


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## plasmargon (Oct 21, 2009)

Also Whazzup, have you read the reaserch that says most of the harmful pests for MJ see in the UV range? They can't see if you don't supply the light for them to, then they are kept in controll. Can I ask you something, did Sannie get all those seeds from one bud like he seems to imply?


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## whazzup (Oct 22, 2009)

To start with the last: They shouldn't be there anyway . 

But the argument I made was that growers will change their bulbs way before the end of life, so I don't believe frequency shift will be a problem, not a big enough problem to justify 5-10% light loss (in ideal circumstances). Now can you please comment on that before moving to the bugs?

Gavita experimented with 100 watt Philips red led lights earlier this year to complement the spectrum and had good results (results are published on the Internet and in magazines). The question also is if 100 watt is the right amount. You increase the amount of light by about 40-50% purely in the red area. You increase the PAR light however relatively more because the LEP is more or less full spectrum. Did you test the LED added frequencies yet or is this an assumption? I read no more about new tests after your initial one. 

I disagree though that this light is very efficient in producing a lot of PAR light. It's comparable to MH at most. By adding the red leds you create a boost in the red spectrum. Yes, you can be sure of the fact that that 100 watt LED light is 100% within PAR. It's the distribution of frequencies however that will determine the quality. It will dramatically change the CRI too. The whole PAR light discussion I consider even more interesting as we see great results with wide spectrum at this moment.


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## YouGrowBoy (Oct 22, 2009)

This is for either Whazzup or Plasmargon. 

LPS's future looks so bright we'll need to wear shades 

The light you are currently testing is 180w correct? I'm guessing you guys see this as a 400w HPS/MH replacement for tents and small grows?

When do you think we will see a version of this light that replaces 1000w HPS lights for bigger grows?

Thank you both for all the experimentation and info. (sure wish I could test these puppies)

YGB


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## cowboylogic (Oct 22, 2009)

I will wait until Feb. But my guess is all this hype is all that we will see.


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## whazzup (Oct 22, 2009)

@yougrowboy: No, I don't see it as a 400 watt replacement at the moment. I would see it as a 250 watt replacement at most. Bigger and the newer lights should have a better efficacy because there is less overhead from the driver and more light output per watt. It's not like the LED guys that promised a 90 watt UFO to perform the same as a 400 watt HPS. No way. Other than that we are just testing the spectrum at this moment because we believe it might be better for indoor growing without daylight. LEP (I stick to Light Emitting Plasma because Luxim uses this term) has advantages, and we are investigating if they perform well. So far the seeds grow seems to be fine. It's now exciting to see how these beans will perform. The Jackberry side had to do it with 3 plants instead of four and is not a great yielder anyway, but let's see what we will end up with first before early conclusions. 

@cowboylogic: We expect the early adopters to jump on it first, so they have time to prove themselves in the field. Remember that LED was introduced a few years ago, some things take time to develop and to be researched. Unfortunately with plants it takes some time 

I don't think this is a temporary hype. I see universities buying these lights to do exactly the same that we do: test it in a daylight-less environment. The only difference now is that with the base product we already get some interesting results and we share these preliminary results on the net. So that might create a small hype, but I think what we report is good data. If it works, it works.


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## YouGrowBoy (Oct 22, 2009)

whazzup said:


> @yougrowboy: No, I don't see it as a 400 watt replacement at the moment. I would see it as a 250 watt replacement at most.


I get ya. Thank you so much for sharing all your work. Although it's really not work  but thanks anyway. 

Hype is talk without showing results, you and Sannie are talk with results.

YGB


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## plasmargon (Oct 26, 2009)

By themselves, in February the PAR efficiency of 180 watts worth of plasma will be in line with 300 watts worth of Metal halide. This is huge.

And Whazzup is exactly right about the future of plasma. With the higher watt system next year the efficiency will increase at least another 20% on top of the efficiency bump it's going through right now in the 41 series (included in our system).

The new maximization of Photon yield will be enough to catapult this system into the wish list of every Micro-Climate chamber built into America from now on. 

I understand about the lower yielding strains, I've found the secret to be running them real lean on nutrients or wait till signs before adding amenities to soil.


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## YouGrowBoy (Oct 27, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> The new maximization of Photon yield will be enough to catapult this system into the wish list of every Micro-Climate chamber built into America from now on.



Thanks again. You talk about micro climates and chambers. What do you think will be used in the large grow rooms with 100's of plants?

YGB


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## Integra21 (Oct 27, 2009)

Is there any word on the patten? Still waiting to see pics of the light itself and possible results from your grow, just so I know it actually exists. The predicted release date is closing in, is there any word on a concrete release day, price, and info on it? Or at least a date when they might become available? Saies grow seed to go very well, bit I'd like to see what the results would be if the light was 5" above the canopy and air cooled instead of almost 2 feet away.


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## plasmargon (Oct 27, 2009)

In Sannies grow they said the light was only 50 cm (20 inches) from the tops (looked more like 60 cm), while our air cooled version was 30 cm (12 inches). While the main reason is obviously heat, the harmfull effect is different than you would think. As with any light It's not so much the direct radiant heat itself that causes the problems for plants, it's the change in relative humidity the closer you get to the light/ heat source.

Do an experiment some time. Using a 250 watt light source; measure the relative humidity first at 3 feet, then again 1 foot away and watch the humidity meter drop from 50% to 30% in just a few feet. This is the main hinderance to small growth chambers. The radiant heat energy excites the air, causing it to hold way more water molecules/ dehydrating the surface of organic material if you get it too close. by putting the piece of glass between the areas it makes the light much cooler in the grow area and provides a buffer zone for the small amount of super heated air. 

Thats why in a micro-climate growth chamber you must air cool and isolate the heat source from the grow area.

By keeping the heat source in a seperate unconnected environment the relative humiditiy barely starts to change even at half the distance as from an unshielded system. Then the issue of heat becomes the only element to controll. By providing a more gentle environment for the plants to be 1/2 as close to the light source makes it way worth the 6.5% light loss from the ultra-pure glass. That's why our system is so exclusively designed for small growth chambers. We are even providing a perfectly ballanced adjustable speed fan/odor filter and the whole package for the All-In-One system will be less than $1000.

About Luxim's next years high watt version curtailed especially for horticulture; I am not at liberty to divulge specific details yet but I can say this...in 5 years* Light Emitting Plasma* units will dominate the indoor growing market I guarantee it.


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## plasmargon (Oct 31, 2009)

Pre-established fact; it's _way_ harder to precisely controll the environment in a small space for horticulture.

This is what gets me more and more excited every time I look at this light... I did my test with full shielding, throwing everything I know into the grow and it did phenominal, using 1: 160 watt LEP over 4 high yileding plants on turntables for 7 1/2 weeks budding, I harvested 330 gms + 1/2 oz. kief = over 1.2 grams per watt/ month! This was in a 4' by 4' cabinet (the footprint of the light is only spread 2 1/2 feet durring rotation phase) and I think it would do even BETTER with the Red LEDs.

The equasion is Grams per watt per month. This is the ultimate rule of thumb or bench mark.

Then I look at what they did in the open grow test (completely unshielded in a 3' by 3' highly UV reflective tent) and the LEP system (and Sannie) still did very very well, probably 1/2 of what I did.

Conclusion; this light will do excellently in any situation. I'm so psyched to be on-board for the future of horticultural lighting.

Now if America (and the world) would finally wake up and legalize


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## DrDank (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm really excited about the future of sulphur plasma lights!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_lamp
http://www.plasma-international.com/biotronic.htm


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## Integra21 (Nov 5, 2009)

So why is there no pictures, specs, grow tests to show for your light??? Sannie and friends have finished 1 and started the next with the added led's and we still have not seen a single thing from your alleged light. Does it even exist or are you just blowing smoke? I have waited patiently for several months for more info on price, availability, and options and havent seen a single thing. I had every intention of ordering from you, but so far have had nothing but vauge info and empty promises. I'm fairly certain the light will perform how I want it but am a little worried if you will. Please start getting that ball rolling. With relaease only a couple of months away you really shold have your patent taken care of and in full on test phase for all of the eager growers to see.


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## plasmargon (Nov 5, 2009)

Integra21 said:


> So why is there no pictures, specs, grow tests to show for your light??? Sannie and friends have finished 1 and started the next with the added led's and we still have not seen a single thing from your alleged light. Does it even exist or are you just blowing smoke? I have waited patiently for several months for more info on price, availability, and options and havent seen a single thing. I had every intention of ordering from you, but so far have had nothing but vauge info and empty promises. I'm fairly certain the light will perform how I want it but am a little worried if you will. Please start getting that ball rolling. With relaease only a couple of months away you really shold have your patent taken care of and in full on test phase for all of the eager growers to see.


Thank you for your interest, yes I know it's a stretch to trust without seeing, but the guys from opengrow are in a country more favorable to these type of ventures (though that seems to be changing). My lawyer and investor both recommend not posting because of being connected to a Federal Tax ID, and pictures of the new design (completed just over a month ago) will come when the patent comes through.

I just secured the rights from Luxim 5 months ago so it's been a break neck pace since then.

I guarantee the wait will be worth it.


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## whazzup (Nov 7, 2009)

hi guys,

Just back from Spain (Cannabis Expo Madrid). I assume you all can find Sannies topic so I don't have to talk about that anymore. KJ Products had a small plasma light in their booth. It was very easy to explain to the Spanish: 

Question: If you had a choice, growing indoor or outdoor, what would you choose? 
Answer: Outdoor of course. 
Question: Why? 
Answer: The sun of course, much better light! 
<whazzup points at the plasma light>
Answer: Aaaaah!


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## The Warlord (Nov 7, 2009)

whazzup said:


> hi guys,
> 
> Just back from Spain (Cannabis Expo Madrid). I assume you all can find Sannies topic so I don't have to talk about that anymore. KJ Products had a small plasma light in their booth. It was very easy to explain to the Spanish:
> 
> ...


i'll buy one. Be really useful even If I keep vegging with the big hps. Be really nice if they come up with something bigger like a 1000 w hps equivalent.


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## whazzup (Nov 7, 2009)

you're easily convinced! 

Are you from Spain?


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## Integra21 (Nov 7, 2009)

Sannies grow convinced me. Pulled of some great looking herb off of a 180w at 50cm away. I know you guys say its equiv. to a 250w or so but my argument with that was, see what hind of results you get off of a 250w with that many plants with the light placed that far away. I dont see it going as well. And now we watch the show with the added leds, but I still wonder how it would do aircooled with the 40-02 lamp with the better red spectrum. Keep up the good work Open Grow Crew.


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## The Warlord (Nov 7, 2009)

whazzup said:


> you're easily convinced!
> 
> Are you from Spain?


I've been watching this type of lighting for a long time. I already grow lots of sannies strains. Now i want to grow with his light!

I'm an American.


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## whazzup (Nov 8, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTnnZ45KmZQ


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## Integra21 (Nov 8, 2009)

whazzup said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTnnZ45KmZQ


Sweet setup. Thanks to you and sannie for keeping us up to date and showing the results of these revolutionary lights. I see you have drasticly changed the appearance of your light from the puck stuck to metal to its own housing. Is that unit also meant to be air cooled? Also, what is the height of the hood from glass to mounts? I really want to give these lights a go, but am concered about my height restrictions. I only have 101cm(3'4")of total height from floor to ceiling. I make it work with a hood height of 9 inches right now with the light 6-12 inches from the light.


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## whazzup (Nov 12, 2009)

This is not a commercial setup - it is a test installation. The final model will be very compact, but that design I'm not at liberty to share yet in this stage of development, as it can still move from that. But it will be compact, air cooled of course but not forced air cooled with a glass plate. The reflector adds some extra heat and we needed that desperately, so in the 80 cm tent the temp now rises about 4 degrees C instead of 2-2,5 with the light on, extraction on minimum


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## whazzup (Nov 13, 2009)

yesterday I have seen the Cannalytics print and yes, we have THCV . THC contents are very high, some cbc/cbg and some cryptics. THCV explains the flashy intense high.


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## plasmargon (Nov 17, 2009)

Hi Whazzup;

So that's it? It's like you cut a 5 inch hole in the back of a stock reflector case and mounted everything on it. I'll bet you get all the heat you want now.

Those red LED's would be way more efficient closer to the canopy.


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## plasmargon (Nov 17, 2009)

I would really be interested what the relative humidity is 12 inches from the reflector...or even at the canopy level you have it at (50cm?). When you see the stamen dry and wilt that tells you the light is drying out the air next to it. But if you isolate the ultra small heat source from the grow environment the humidity stays more uniform closer to the light. 

If you really want to add heat to the growth chamber use a root-mat digital control and heat cable under plywood as a base to the tent. Control the root zone They love 65-68 degrees F and make sure the canopy stays under 78 degrees F. Most people measure the grow environment as a whole but they seldom realize there's so much going on in a small grow environment. The actual heat of the top cola is so much more telling than the room temp. I love IR thermometers for this reason. Aim it at the top and see what the real effect of the proximity of the light is. Same with the Relative humidity. I'll bet the tops in your grow tent are being exasperated by over-transpiration. The tell tale signs are the die off of the Stamen and stunted bud development.


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## plasmargon (Nov 17, 2009)

Oh yeah, heat uniformity is one of the main advantages of my plant turntables. It's like cooking on a spit (rotisserie) keeps everything at a uniform temp giving the side that was just right next to the light source some time to absorb the energy.


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## whazzup (Nov 19, 2009)

Anyone visiting the Hightimes Cannabis Cup next week in Amsterdam: I will be showing the prototype (not the improvised reflector casing ) of the lamp on Wednesday during THSeeds presentation by Adam. Bring your sunglasses!


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## whazzup (Nov 19, 2009)

About the heat: Unfortunately we are not yet geting the heat we want . Instead of 2,5 degrees the temperature rises about 4 degrees in an 80 cm tent. Still no heat problem at all. On contrary, we are thinking about using IR leds to heat things up a bit. 

Because of the distance of the light to the plants and the relative low temperature at top height we have no humidity "problems". Would it be better to add a fogger? I think so. It's dry in sannies room. But then again 95% of home growers grow this way, with a light, some (good) substrate, nutrients and extraction through a filter. We want to see results in a "real world" environment, not in a lab. Other plants do fine here, so why shouldn't these. 

Everything we do here is easily repeatable and with a bit of effort you can create an even better climate if you wish. 

The leds are installed to "heal" the red gap in the spectrum. If you don't install a lot of leds you need distance for uniformity. The amount of red light was adjusted to measurements at top height. Fortunately with the Plasma and the reflector you can keep a little distance.


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## plasmargon (Nov 20, 2009)

whazzup said:


> About the heat: Unfortunately we are not yet geting the heat we want . Instead of 2,5 degrees the temperature rises about 4 degrees in an 80 cm tent. Still no heat problem at all. On contrary, we are thinking about using IR leds to heat things up a bit.
> 
> Because of the distance of the light to the plants and the relative low temperature at top height we have no humidity "problems". Would it be better to add a fogger? I think so. It's dry in sannies room. But then again 95% of home growers grow this way, with a light, some (good) substrate, nutrients and extraction through a filter. We want to see results in a "real world" environment, not in a lab. Other plants do fine here, so why shouldn't these.
> 
> ...


Did you make design changes for the production model? Hope everything goes great. I do wish you would give some hard data about temp and relative humidity. I guess that's so I can make my point but you obviously don't want to support my findings. (I can't blame after our 'discussion')

To the readers this is the issue. This light gets as hot as the suface of the sun, but it's suface area is only the size of a pencil erracer. The total heat output is 20% less than a 150 watt HPS. There is more suface area on the HPS so you get more heat transfere to the surrounding area with HPS. And the LEP is more efficient so it puts more of it's energy into usable light instead of Infra-Red. BUT the super heated surface of the tic-tac size emitter acts like the perfect dehumidifier. It expands the air molecules to be able to handle 10 times the capacity for moisture thus decreasing the relative humidity in a micro-climate environment. If these aren't segregated from the grow environment the air handling should at least be designed to immediately take the radiant heat away before that air mixes with the air below.

We're almost ready to officially release pictures for our design. This is going to ROCK our world.


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## whazzup (Nov 20, 2009)

Coming week I'll publish a picture with the spectrum both lights emit. You all know the nice graphs on the HPS lamps with PAR light. But what you don't see is the IR light (conveniently cut off). Well I can tell you it is extremely high for the HPS and very low in the LEP. It does get hot (deep) inside the cell but there is very little IR radiation. As said, in a 80x80 cm tent temp rises 4 Celsius. We are seriously thinking about more heat.

As for the warm air: Yes, that can escape directly upwards.

as for warm air mixing: That is highly unlikely to happen with the light at 60 cm from the crop.


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## d.c. beard (Nov 20, 2009)

Yo plasmargon - are these like the ones being sold in Europe? Wattage and lumens aren't all there is people, there's also 'throwing distance' which I think is very much in this product's favor. LEDs have like NO throwing distance. You could build a 1000w LED lamp with the current technology and it's not going to do squat past 1-2' down from the lamps.

PLS and the other (magnetic?) are the future. Ask Dutch growers...


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## whazzup (Nov 22, 2009)

Gavita will _market _their light only in Europe as they are the European distributor for Luxim in the horticultural market. There are other suppliers as well, such as Chameleon Grow Systems (they seem to have just boxed the light with some leds) but they will start delivering their products March coming year.


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## jolly8541 (Nov 22, 2009)

Wow, I just spent 2 hours reading this from front to back...whew... after reading plasma & whazzup go at it my mind is blown. Man u2 are intense, I usually get up and peep out the forums, smoke out and chill. Now my head hurts like when I'm fighting with my woman.....its almost time to do homework, shit!


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## whazzup (Nov 22, 2009)

There's a lot of passion involved! 

Reading the grow thread is a more soothing experience


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## plasmargon (Nov 22, 2009)

whazzup said:


> There's a lot of passion involved!
> 
> Reading the grow thread is a more soothing experience


You're right, I apologize for my part in the passion, but man this light is awesome. 

My only desire here is to send the message what is going to happen in the near future. Plasma is gonna light this world soon and I got to be the first person to use this new technology for the cause. It's like discovering a new hot woman. She might thrill you, but it's still alot of work to keep her and your friends will never believe you 'till you bring her around.


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## jolly8541 (Nov 23, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> You're right, I apologize for my part in the passion, but man this light is awesome.
> 
> My only desire here is to send the message what is going to happen in the near future. Plasma is gonna light this world soon and I got to be the first person to use this new technology for the cause. It's like discovering a new hot woman. She might thrill you, but it's still alot of work to keep her and your friends will never believe you 'till you bring her around.


Man when I wish that I had found this thread a couple of weeks ago. I just picked up my 1st 1000w hps and now I'm kicking myself in the ass! 

I think that I probably would have waited until next year to pick up one of these new high-speed plasma set-ups....

Going to have to squeeze a few harvests from the hps and stack up some change to get one of these babys.


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## SwissCheese (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm interested to see where this goes and how it can work out for large scale commercial operations.


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## Vindicated (Nov 23, 2009)

All this technology and who's going to buy it? Some rich dude doing a closet grow. lol.


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## The Warlord (Nov 24, 2009)

jolly8541 said:


> Man when I wish that I had found this thread a couple of weeks ago. I just picked up my 1st 1000w hps and now I'm kicking myself in the ass!
> 
> I think that I probably would have waited until next year to pick up one of these new high-speed plasma set-ups....
> 
> Going to have to squeeze a few harvests from the hps and stack up some change to get one of these babys.


 
LOL....your 1k hps light is still gonna be top dog for a while. These pls lights are small right now and SUPER expensive. When/if I buy a plasma it'll just be for vegging most likely. I'll still flower with the hps. Maybe if they come out with a lot bigger pls and the price goes way down they could replace our big hps/mh lamps but thats years away, realistically.


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## jolly8541 (Nov 25, 2009)

The Warlord said:


> LOL....your 1k hps light is still gonna be top dog for a while. These pls lights are small right now and SUPER expensive. When/if I buy a plasma it'll just be for vegging most likely. I'll still flower with the hps. Maybe if they come out with a lot bigger pls and the price goes way down they could replace our big hps/mh lamps but thats years away, realistically.


 Hey Warlord you've got a great point, I wasn't thinking about the size of the lights, so at this point the pls are for smaller grows? I'm trying to step-it up a bit, and the 1000hps is lightyears from where I was growing 2 months ago. I'm a little apprehensive to see what the first light bill is going to be.

I'm definately going to be peeping this pls thing and see where it goes.


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## YouGrowBoy (Nov 25, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> It's like discovering a new hot woman. She might thrill you, but it's still alot of work to keep her and your friends will never believe you 'till you bring her around.


Big deal so you're popping the lights cherry. For every beautiful woman you see out there, there's a guy who's sick of fu#^ing her.


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## blackthumbs (Nov 25, 2009)

thanks for the spam


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## whazzup (Nov 25, 2009)

Now that's a great first post with some fine content blackthumbs 

I don't see plasma for bigger grows at this moment in time. You need at least a 300 watt plasma light to get some real intensity. On the other hand.. if the output goes up another 30% it will compete with MH or HPS. 

The investment is high of course, just as with leds, and we need to see what yields we get (in a normal growroom situation, not a specialised micro climate) and what quality. Until then I wouldn't recommend buying it anyway, though it does wonders in veg. On one hand, T5's are much easier to distribute over a big surface, on the other hand: if you have the height...

Interesting find the last grow that the buds were about 25% "heavier" - that's 25% more dry matter and/or trichomes! Sannie expected based on the fresh weight about 70+ grams and it became 90+ in the end.


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## YouGrowBoy (Nov 29, 2009)

whazzup said:


> Sannie expected based on the fresh weight about 70+ grams and it became 90+ in the end.


Thanks Wazzup. Now that's the kind of posts we like to see. Solid performance!


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## whazzup (Nov 30, 2009)

I promised to publish some spectrum graphs for HPS and Plasma. 

Well here they are. first the plasma light, then the HPS.

Now one thing you need to take into consideration when looking at these graphs (Luxim versus Philips HPS Greenpower): The SCALE is DIFFERENT! To be able to compare the quality we needed to use a much smaller scale on the plasma as it doesn't output as much light! his graphs is therefore purely for spectrum analysis purposes.

What HPS manufacturers always show is the PAR part of the output spectrum. They do not want to show the very high heat output of the light. Well we did do a spectrum including the Infra Red light.

I think the graph speaks for itself. You have no heat radiation problem with the LEP.

Btw the plasma fixture and reflector for horti use are developed by Gavita, Lumatek will brand it for the hydroponics market in their high-end line.


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## plasmargon (Dec 1, 2009)

whazzup said:


> "I think the graph speaks for itself. You have no heat radiation problem with the LEP."



@ Whazzup; I have a huge question for you and I wonder why no one else on this thread has caught it yet... You have just proven that there is very little IR heat coming from the emitter in the LEP system (the driver puts out more heat). So why do you HAVE to pull the light so far away (50- 60cm) to keep it from stunting bud growth? 

My air-cooled model can get 25 cm away without stunting bud growth. I wonder why?

(Answer; isolating the light by glass results in no loss in Relative humidity at close proximity, and less UV-B/C)


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## plasmargon (Dec 1, 2009)

YouGrowBoy said:


> Thanks Wazzup. Now that's the kind of posts we like to see. Solid performance!


You act like you speak for the whole community when I've posted here more than you. Wanker; You probably aren't even getting ANY let alone getting sick of someone beautiful.


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## whazzup (Dec 2, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> @ Whazzup; I have a huge question for you and I wonder why no one else on this thread has caught it yet... You have just proven that there is very little IR heat coming from the emitter in the LEP system (the driver puts out more heat). So why do you HAVE to pull the light so far away (50- 60cm) to keep it from stunting bud growth?
> 
> My air-cooled model can get 25 cm away without stunting bud growth. I wonder why?
> 
> (Answer; isolating the light by glass results in no loss in Relative humidity at close proximity, and less UV-B/C)


A bigger font doesn't make a question more important 

First of all we think the stunned bud growth is the result of not enough red spectrum in the light (too little grow light) and the UVB levels. I attribute the leaf abnormalities at short distance to the higher UVB radiation of the light. The leaf reaction to the light at close proximity is the same as how leafs react to high amounts of UVB in high areas or around the equator. So you have the following options:

- shield the light with glass
- increase background irradiation as this reduces the sensitivity to UVB
- increase the distance to the light to reduce UVB
- increase the amount of growlight relative to the UVB

We choose not to shield the light. We added a reflector, we increased the distance, we increased the amount of growlight by adding 80 watt R and FR LED to the 180 watt LEP.

There are numerous scientific publications that show high intensity UVB leads to reduced leaf size and increased dry matter. But more importantly, UV-absorbing flavonoid compound levels (and THC) increase a lot under high levels of UVB.


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## whazzup (Dec 2, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> My air-cooled model can get 25 cm away without stunting bud growth. I wonder why?


Now you're asking: I indeed wonder why you would want it so close because there is no way you can light more than a very small patch from that distance. Furthermore it is more difficult to get uniform lighting at short distances, though I suppose while the plants are turning an even lighting is not your concern at all, that's a given in that system (dark/light). I just wonder how you would use the same light for flowering from 25 cm height. That must be some freakin reflector if it can cover a square meter from 25 cm distance at a good uniformity. I take it you don't turn them during the complete flowering period. 

So, it's not the UVC, not the UVB, not the heat and not humidity imho. Glass not only decreases UVB output but also takes away 5-8% of all light. That's ridiculous to do in our opinion if you don't have a climate problem.


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## The Warlord (Dec 2, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> You act like you speak for the whole community when I've posted here more than you. Wanker; You probably aren't even getting ANY let alone getting sick of someone beautiful.


 
Damn man, your skin is too thin for internet forums and you come across like a dick pretty much everywhere you post. Not really a good impression. At this point with all the complaining, name calling, and even threats over on sannies board (opengrow), I'd fly to Europe to pick up a light before i'd buy one of yours. Ever consider that complementing wazzup on their work had NOTHING to do with you? Then call the dude names? WTF? 
Just comenting on your lack of decorum in the hope that you'll come to your senses and shape up. I doubt it.


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## YouGrowBoy (Dec 2, 2009)

The Warlord said:


> Damn man, your skin is too thin for internet forums and you come across like a dick pretty much everywhere you post. Not really a good impression. At this point with all the complaining, name calling, and even threats over on sannies board (opengrow), I'd fly to Europe to pick up a light before i'd buy one of yours. Ever consider that complementing wazzup on their work had NOTHING to do with you? Then call the dude names? WTF?
> Just comenting on your lack of decorum in the hope that you'll come to your senses and shape up. I doubt it.


Very well put. I believe the testing over in Europe will be the white papers of tomorrow.


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## whazzup (Dec 3, 2009)

It's not possible to have a good discussion without common data to discuss. I can only speak for what we see and learn. You make it very difficult to have a decent discussion plasmargon. You sound like "if you're not with us, you're against us". Don't underestimate the impact of what you say on a forum.


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## plasmargon (Dec 3, 2009)

The Warlord said:


> Damn man, your skin is too thin for internet forums and you come across like a dick pretty much everywhere you post. Not really a good impression. At this point with all the complaining, name calling, and even threats over on sannies board (opengrow), I'd fly to Europe to pick up a light before i'd buy one of yours. Ever consider that complementing wazzup on their work had NOTHING to do with you? Then call the dude names? WTF?
> Just comenting on your lack of decorum in the hope that you'll come to your senses and shape up. I doubt it.


I have complimented and tried to help Whazzup and Sannie on many different occasions and it only blew up in my face. I would not doubt your connected with them just like all the people they've had harass me in the past. 
If you look carefully I wasn't calling Whazzup anything. I said it to yougrowboy, but you're right they're probably connected. I was talking with Doc on OpenGrow and somehow insulted Whazzup. Go figure... 

So go to Europe to get your light I don't give a shit (good luck getting an adapter to use with it). I've had over 1000 requests for this light already. I have only been doing this to keep it in the blogs. Now I'm ready to launch my website.

These guys don't want help or support they just want to harass me, that's why they came to this site. You should have read the shitty responses I got from them on Opengrow (Quote;"are you trying to turn people against us? now I'll do everything in my power to turn your people on you"). So if you side with them go fuck yourself. I started this thread for a reason. Now I'm done. 

Whazzup, I just met you at the Cannabis cup and you didn't even know who I was hahahaha. If you make it here for the next Grow expo I'll make SURE to make you feel welcome. 

Moderator, you can close this thread.


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## Integra21 (Dec 3, 2009)

I have been a supporter so far. but whats with all of the negativity? and where's a link to the site?


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## plasmargon (Dec 3, 2009)

Integra21 said:


> I have been a supporter so far. but whats with all of the negativity? and where's a link to the site?


Sorry Integra, 

I'm really burnt out on these guys following me to harass me. This is the third site they have enrolled in just because I was on it. (look at the record)

I do admit I came off very intense on their site (opengrow), only because I thought they knew who I was because we have mutual connections and I was trying to help them. Then I got shit on by Sannie while at the same time His partner Doc was trying to ask my boss for free product. We don't play like that. 

So when I found out they don't even know who our mutuals are, I left it alone. But they kept following me to every website I was trying to get this info out to. At first I didn't mind because they have pictures and I can't post anything with my lawyer and investor breathing down my neck. But now several months later they're still trying to fuck with me.

So guess what Whazzup?... We'll see each other again soon. When you see who I am I hope you shit your pants. I know who you are now. You just had to keep pushing me.


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## SwissCheese (Dec 3, 2009)

He could be a serial killer. And he knows who you are. You don't know who he is. The drama continues.


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## NavySupra (Dec 3, 2009)

I think that sulfur plasma is the future.

A purchase from plasmargon is not in the future.


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## whazzup (Dec 4, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> Sorry Integra,
> 
> I'm really burnt out on these guys following me to harass me. This is the third site they have enrolled in just because I was on it. (look at the record)
> 
> ...


I think plasma could be a great innovation and everyone should be able to learn about it. So actually I am doing your promotion work by showing how it works. We just disagree how the technology should be applied. 

If I'm not mistaken you visited Opengrow and joined sannies thread first, spamming completely out of control.

We actually gave you a few ideas in that thread, showing you the levels of UVB actually can enhance the plant and the plant can have lots more of it than you initially thought. 

It seems that I even demonstrated the light and the reflector to you (what did you think of it?). 

Now you have had results with a 400 watt (cooled) light of more than a gram per watt _per month_, (if I remember well), so I suppose you expect to get even better gr/watt using these lights (otherwise why bother?). We don't get any close to those results here so you must have something unique. If that is the case, why worry? Unfortunately you don't share any data about it. If I had a light that did more than a gram per watt per month (so, 400 grams in two months from under this 180 watt light) I wouldn't worry at all. I would just sit in a corner and smile. 

I am looking forward to the designs and your website and I'm sure we will find out about you and the results then.

As for my remark about posting on forums: It's really unfortunate that you say these things on a public forum and don't stick to the content. I can understand you are frustrated at this point still not being able to share your light with us yet, but you destroy your own reputation by these remarks.

There is something else that really surprises me: Gavita has the European distribution rights for the professional agri market, and does not sell to the US. 

Even Chameleon already shows LEP plasma light fixtures prototypes on their site, where we don't operate on the US market so I don't see why you are so irritated as we don't even compete with your light in the US. Now that would be something... first ship the plasme unit from the US to The Netherlands, build the fixture, and then send it back  

You make it into something personal that it isn't. If you would have been a brave man you would have stepped forward after my presentation to talk to me as many did. I would surely have done the same if I had been at one of your demos and I would have gladly discussed any issues and demonstrate you our light more closely. 

I hear your frustration, but please channel that in a different way than threats, that's so counter-productive. Forums have a bad effect on you - don't make it into something personal, stick to the discussion. Keep it professional.


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## YouGrowBoy (Dec 4, 2009)

I have read most of Plasmargons posts on ALL message boards. I will give him some credit as he is smart. But that's it. I have also read all of Wazzups posts and he is smart too, but he is also respectful, modest and most of all has some evidence to back up his statements. Wazzups goal is to further the exploration and experimentation of more then just plasma. I can't say that for other people that are just looking show us how smart they are (we don't care), pretend they are the inventor of plasma technology, and the 1st to use it. We don't care about 1st, all we care about is the process and the end result. If you show us the process and the end result along with non-arrogant dialogue you will have our attention and not be flamed.

Plasmargon got me interested in plasma light but my attention has switched to Opengrow's tests because they are showing the world what plasma can and can't do. 

I and the rest of us are here to see what results can be achieved by new technology and not to listen to someone spout "they have all the answers to the future of lighting and they are great because they were there 1st" BFD! Did you invent plasma light or are you riding its coat tails?

Much respect to Sannie and Wazzup for backing up the talk with some serious work.


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## RanTyr (Dec 4, 2009)

You aren't reading the same posts I am. Whazzup is clearly needling him in a covert way.


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## The Warlord (Dec 4, 2009)

I pretty much wrote the guy off when he was telling sannie that he was about to kill jhis plants with uv light and whatnot as sannie was growing some really nice plants and seeds....That and the threats to send the european chapter of the HA after them for almost no reason at all. 
now he's going to the cup and meeting same people and withholding his identity(still with a hint of a threat in there between the lines). How the hell he thinks this is ok behavior is beyond me. i'm so unimpressed it's kinda humourous at this point. 

and with that last volley i retire from this thread. I'm gonna go smoke some of sannies star kush (the only connection i have with sannie is as a very satisfied customer )


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## whazzup (Dec 5, 2009)

well we keep on testing, still 1.2 gr/watt/month is pretty impressive. I would really like to see that (finally). Easiest way to show it is to send one or two to a good grower to publish a test. That's a proven workable formula .


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## Noyzboy (Dec 25, 2009)

We will be manufacturing Plasma HID Grow Lights in March
I can help you with info if you wish
You can email me [email protected]
www.ChameleonGrowSystems.com

They are amazing and we will be selling enclosures with two Plasma HID's in them

Independant testing went very well!


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## SwissCheese (Dec 26, 2009)

Noyzboy said:


> We will be manufacturing Plasma HID Grow Lights in March
> I can help you with info if you wish
> You can email me [email protected]
> www.ChameleonGrowSystems.com
> ...


Is this the product plasmargon has been talking about for the last couple months?


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## NavySupra (Dec 26, 2009)

SwissCheese said:


> Is this the product plasmargon has been talking about for the last couple months?


I don't think plasmargon has any part of this link.

I almost bought a couple of plamsa emitters from luxim direct, but then I found out about the Philips CMH lamp for 400w HPS systems, and $60 verses $1000... I chose the CMH.


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## Integra21 (Dec 26, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> So go to Europe to get your light I don't give a shit (good luck getting an adapter to use with it). I've had over 1000 requests for this light already. I have only been doing this to keep it in the blogs. Now I'm ready to launch my website.
> 
> These guys don't want help or support they just want to harass me, that's why they came to this site. You should have read the shitty responses I got from them on Opengrow (Quote;"are you trying to turn people against us? now I'll do everything in my power to turn your people on you"). So if you side with them go fuck yourself. I started this thread for a reason. Now I'm done.
> 
> ...


This post of his led me to believe he abandoned this thread. I was a supporter of his until this, ne sure all of his talk ever lead to anything because we have still never seen pics or grows or even siple tech specs on his supposed light.


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## Billy Crash (Dec 26, 2009)

Sounds Sweet


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## YouGrowBoy (Dec 26, 2009)

Noyzboy said:


> We will be manufacturing Plasma HID Grow Lights in March
> I can help you with info if you wish
> You can email me [email protected]
> www.ChameleonGrowSystems.com
> ...


$6000 for a light? Will it blow me too?


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## grow4ever (Dec 27, 2009)

YouGrowBoy said:


> $6000 for a light? Will it blow me too?


lol great line 

I haven't read all this thread...here is something I came across.
http://www.plasma-i.com/index.htm


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## whazzup (Jan 1, 2010)

Chameleon, the next to enter the thread  

Plasmargon was talking about an air cooled system with glass in front of the emitter. I haven't seen the site yet, anyone? 

Current results btw: We stopped the red leds as they did not seem to bring much good to the grow, and concentrate now on bringing more light on the plants. The seeds grows do very well, but for pot production purposes the buds still stay too small. Plasma is not a wonder light. We have seen great results in veg (even spectacular) but it is not paying off yet in flowering. 2 lights on that surface could be a good idea, but you would need a real good reflector to bring the light down evenly. It requires a good grow recipe. Continuing the tests and, based on what we see the last week, we are probably going to expand the tests. New lights should be coming in any day now.


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## sherriberry (Jan 7, 2010)

im sure some of you may have heard of the new electrode-less magnetic induction lights?

similar to cfl's but more power, and much longer life.

super efficient.

im about to buy a couple more and have established a relationship with the factory in china... so it doesnt get any cheapers

heres the link

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/290429-im-purchasing-new-electrode-less.html#post3629108


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## macdadyabc (Feb 1, 2010)

im not paying thousands of dollars for am equivalent of a 400 watt MH when it sucks balls, needs a computer 24/7 (sort of defeats the saving electricity bit), and has a 1 year warranty at most. Plasmagron is here to "share all the magic that plasma has to offer", but he is really only trying to peddle us his shit. Lets see some proof that shows plasma is worth anything


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## whazzup (Oct 7, 2010)

Sorry for answering this one a bit late, but there is not a lot of similarity between an induction light and a plasma light. First of all try to make a good reflector for an induxction light, look at the size. It's a different technology and different lamp and it's not that new. I have seen induction grows on forums years ago:






To conclude the spam in the topic :

GAVITA just showed their new plasma lights on the LA Grow 2010 trade show, including their new air-cooled one:


More info on the new GAVITA Holland site.


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## whazzup (Oct 23, 2010)

well if you take a little time to investigate you will find two complete grow cycles published, all the other specifics are in the product literature provided on the site and are public available at Luxim. But yes, I think you miss a few things 

I'm not saying at all that plasma will now replace HPS and I am certainly not saying that is is cheap. I'm not saying that with plasma you have a golden bullet. There is a much more development to be done to optimize plasma light for blooming for example, and to learn how to grow under plasma. 

On the other hand in the vegetative stage we have seen incredible results that outperform HPS, MH, CFL or any combination of them. That we have tested and repeated grows and tests have confirmed that. Also we could reproduce the increased dry mass in every test grow so far. We had less yield than the other combinations (plasma/HPS, MH/HPS). The buds however were most compact, even deep in the plant with both plasma grows, the plasma only as well as the plasma/HPS combination, the latter delivered the best buds at high yield. 

So for who is this light? Let's face it, it's not for you if you are growing on a tight budget or want to save money or electricity. It's an expensive piece of equipment. But if you want to keep up with current technological developments and want to experience what it means to be growing with plasma lights and have applications for them for cuttings, mother, vegetative growth or as additional lighting together with HPS to improve the quality of the product, if you are scientifically interested or if you just want to have it because it is such a cool lamp, then I'd say this horticultural quality fixture is an excellent choice.

You also need to consider that in our industry we are sometimes a bit faster with some developments than in the horticultural market. So a lot of products nowadays see this market probably a bit faster because many pot growers are open minded growers who really want to crack "the code". 

Plasma is a product that is in the beginning of it's development cycle. I think this is the first usable solid state plasma light. Over time other, and more powerful models will be launched, if the market will accept these lights. 

Plasma is also used in street lighting, theater lights etc etc, so there are numerous applications. Growing plants with them is just one of them. If the development of this lamp would have to rely on turn-over in horticultural lighting there would be no development at all .

The power use is 300 watt btw. The module itself takes 28V, 9,3 amps so 120V power supplies are possible.


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## FuZZyBUDz (Oct 23, 2010)

can i get a direct link for a supplier?? i watched the video on these things a while back, they do look amazing.


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## whazzup (Oct 23, 2010)

oh about the induction lighting: I just wanted to illustrate that it is not a new technology to be used in grows. It's like T5, some people get really good results with them. Years ago I even saw a combination of a induction light and a cfl in the middle in a round reflector. 

Optically it's difficult to make a good reflector for this shape. A small light source is much easier to handle. The inverse square law starts to work at 5 times the length of the light source. The smaller the light source, the easier it is to make a good reflector.


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## whazzup (Oct 23, 2010)

The link was already there 



whazzup said:


> More info on the new GAVITA Holland site.


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## kingme (Oct 23, 2010)

need 1000 watt equiv to try it. Are we going to go blind being in the same room with this light?


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## whazzup (Oct 31, 2010)

No you certainly won't. _If not used with a filter_ directly looking into the light _at close distance_ will cause cause serious eye problems due to the high dosage of uvc. But with the filter installed as it is (the wide spectrum glass plate) there is no danger of that anymore. I have been working in that light for several days without any problem. It is used for streetlighting, theater lighting (very intense lighting), projection, architectural lighting. You can rest assured that it will not affect your eyes and that the lamp is perfectly safe. We have done earlier tests _without _the filter with no difficulties or injuries, just don't look into the light when it is not covered _at very close distance_. For safety for course we recommend to use the filter. If GAVITA would sell you welders gear they would recommend to use welders glasses when using that . No need with the plasma light.

Edit: the light will enable you though to make great pictures!


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