# THC % Does Not Measure The High



## mattthematic (Oct 14, 2011)

Hello All , 

New user here . Not so new grower . No old timer either . 

I recently have taken to testing my strains for THC % with a local lab . I am noticing the grows that get great user reviews do not necessarily have the highest THC % . In fact , the local favorite is coming in at 9% , which is half of my other strains ! 

I do not think the lab is at fault . I think there is a lot more to the quality of the high than THC % . In addition , I am starting to question the reasoning behind the commonly held notion that Sativas are always energetic and Indicas are sleepers .

There is a BBC documentary that really seems to confirm this . See YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs . 

Does anybody have similar observations ? 

I am trying to understand why some strains make people giggle and chat and others make people sleep . THC % is not the deciding factor . CBD ? CBN ? Other Magic Stuff ? 

Thank You , 
Matt Thematic


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## Brick Top (Oct 14, 2011)

I watched the video and saw nothing to support any reason for you to *"question the reasoning behind the commonly held notion that Sativas are always energetic and Indicas are sleepers.*" 

It has long been known that cannabinoids work in conjunction with each other, as do some terpinoids. Some work to enhance the effects of THC and others work against the effects of THC. None on their own will produce a good high. 

Cannabidiol is nonpsychoactive and was initially thought to have no effect on the psycho activity of THC. More recent evidence however shows that smokers of cannabis are less likely to experience schizophrenia-like symptoms if there is a higher CBD to THC ratio. Experiments show that participants experienced less intense psychotic effects when intravenous THC was co-administered with CBD. It has been hypothesized that CBD acts as an allosteric antagonist at the CB1 receptor and thus alters the psychoactive effects of THC, resulting in a more easily manageable high.

That is what was seen in the video, what the researcher was testing for. 

CBD has a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that its effect is mostly in the body and not so much in the head. CBD shares a precursor with THC and is the main cannabinoid in low-THC cannabis strains like hemp.

Landrace strains, usually of indica heritage, contain higher concentrations of CBD than recreational drug strains, which are usually bred towards a higher concentration of THC. This is the reason why strains containing high ratios of CBD can be difficult to find.

Tetrahydrocannabinol, also known as delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (&#916;9-THC), is the primary psychoactive component found in the cannabis plant. It was first isolated by Raphael Mechoulam, Yechiel Gaoni, and Habib Edery from the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, in 1964.

This is the main compound that gives rise to the high that is tightly linked with the cannabis plant. It affects several areas of the brain simultaneously and can therefore give rise to an assortment of experiences, ranging from altered perception of time and the self, to feelings of euphoria and relaxation all through the body.


Medically, it appears to be analgetic, meaning that it is capable of alleviating even severe pain. It is also known to be neuroprotective, which rules out the possibility of brain damage, which was initially proposed to follow from heavy use of the plant. It has approximately equal affinity for the CB1 and CB2 receptors. By binding to CB1 receptors (the ones in brain) it produces the high that we are so familiar with. That is why the effects of THC is more cerebral, than the effect of CBD, which seems to have a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor.

THCV is the propyl homologue of THC and is similar in structure. The propyl cannabinoids have so far been found in some varieties originating from Southeast and Central parts of Asia as well as Africa, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Nepal. What are considered some of the most potent marijuana varieties also contain propyl cannabinoids. Some examples include traditional African landrace sativas as well as pure Thai varieties and various hybrids known as Haze.

Cannabinol is the primary degradation product of THC and increases in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the bud is heavily dependent on the time of harvest. Harvesting the bud at a late stage also means that the concentration of CBN in relation to THC will be higher when compared to the peak of THC production.

Also, the woman in the video kept referring to "skunk." She said "new strains of skunk." As I understand things, in Great Britain is a blanket term for any high potency pot and not actually a skunk strain. No particular strain type was referred to. Nothing that was said would be reason to question if sativas do in fact cause a more uplifting energetic head high or not or if indicas do in fact cause a more heavy narcotic body stone or not. 

And when you said "sativas" I had to wonder if you meant 100% pure land-race sativas or 100% sativa crosses or like most people mean when they say sativas, a sativa/indica hybrid that is predominantly sativa but does have some indica in it so along with a head high there would be some degree of a body stone. There can be a fairly big difference between a real true land-race sativa and a sativa dominant hybrid cross, so if you did not mean a true sativa you should state that you are talking about a sativa dominant hybrid cross. The same goes for when you say indica. For anyone to formulate a valid response they would really need to know for sure just what you are talking about. 

Since 1968 I have smoked mainly real sativas, and before about 1980 that was all I smoked, and I have never run across one that was indica-like, that had a heavy narcotic couchlock body stone sort of buzz to it. Not one. Not all were the same in every way, but all were energetic and uplifting and thought provoking to some degree or another. 

I really cannot see where you are on to anything.


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## fatboyOGOF (Oct 14, 2011)

mattthematic said:


> Hello All ,
> 
> New user here . Not so new grower . No old timer either .
> 
> ...


 
i agree!. there's a big thread either here or at gypsys that talks about a report from one of the head pot researchers in the world. it states that thc is at it's peak while the trichs are clear. as most of us prefer the high that comes when there are cloudy or even amber trichs, this tells me that yes indeed, tch is only one component of what it takes to give us that high we love (whatever that may be)!

i believe magic fairy dust is a component of some of the reefer i've smoked!


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## homebrewer (Oct 14, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> I watched the video and saw nothing to support any reason for you to *"question the reasoning behind the commonly held notion that Sativas are always energetic and Indicas are sleepers.*"


 I think he's referring to the woman's reaction to the injections which could be considered indica vs sativa. Introverted and questioning things, that's how I am when smoking indica dominant strains, yet that's how she reacted with no cannabinoids. Giggly, goofy and positive, that's me on a sativa dominant strain which is how she reacted to the blend of THC and cannabinods.


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## Brick Top (Oct 14, 2011)

fatboyOGOF said:


> i agree!. there's a big thread either here or at gypsys that talks about a report from one of the head pot researchers in the world. it states that thc is at it's peak while the trichs are clear. as most of us prefer the high that comes when there are cloudy or even amber trichs, this tells me that yes indeed, tch is only one component of what it takes to give us that high we love (whatever that may be)!
> 
> i believe magic fairy dust is a component of some of the reefer i've smoked!


There was an article in High Times about a researcher found that peak potency levels of THC occurred when trichomes were still clear but just about to turn opaque. There have been a couple threads about it here since the issue of High Times came out. 

I would like a chance to read the entire study and see what different strains were part of the research. The reason I would like to know that is I have read other research findings that said pure sativa, not sativa dominant hybrids, reached maximum potency just prior to clear trichomes turning opaque, but pure indicas reached maximum potency just prior to opaque trichomes turning amber. While I have never read it from a source I would consider to be unquestionable I would have to believe that when it comes to hybrids the prime time to harvest would be found somewhere between those two and what would dictate when a strain would hit maximum potency would be how dominant either sativa or indica genetics would be in it, or if it would be a 50/50 mix. 

You are right in saying that THC is only one element in what creates a high or a stone. It takes the right combination of cannabinoids, and some terpenoids, to create a good high or stone. But that does occur within a window of opportunity while THC is at it's peak. That is when a strain will max out according to it's genetic code. Harvesting earlier or later will result in not ending up with the best a person could have. There is a longer/larger window of opportunity when growing a true sativa and it shrinks as a strain has more and more indica in it until finally being the shortest/smallest for a pure indica. 

What many do is try to perform the pot grower form of alchemy. They try to bend genetics into what they want rather than what the genetics are programmed to give. If someone wants a major couch-lock they need to pick a strain that will give them a major couch-lock while their plants are still at peak potency rather than throw away THC trying to make something into something it was not intended to be. 

So many growers are hung up on what's new, what the latest flavor of the month strain is, what they read a lot of other people writing about. That limits the number of strains they choose from making it less likely that they will purchase the strain, or strains, that would be best for their needs or tastes. If anyone doesn't believe that just pay a little more attention to the grow threads and the 'I just ordered these seeds' threads and you will see that the strains most people grow, not all, but most, fall into one relatively small sized group. 

If more people would be open to trying more breeder's gear and different strains, in particular some older strains that won Cups, back when unlike today winning a Cup was still at least something of a true achievement because there did need to be some true merit for winning involved, they could find some great strains. Strains that could be harvested when at their peak levels of potency but still give them the other parts of a high or stone that they want. Then they could stop playing pot grower alchemist because they wouldn't need to try to bend and twist genetics from what they are into something they were never intended to be to try to end up with what they want.


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## stelthy (Oct 15, 2011)

I am pretty certain that having a good balance of THC and CBD is good for a nice smoke but its THC-V that really increases the power of the 'high' cannabis has alot of other molecules that make the genetic frame, and then on top of that you have to consider the colour/maturity of the Trichs upon harvest and how the cannabis is dried (preferably in the dark).... all factors how the high will unfold - STELTHY


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## ResidualFreedom (Oct 15, 2011)

GreenHouseSeeds has said their Great White Shark is one of their strains with the lowest THC levels, however it is a world known strain and it is used in dispensaries all over the world.. I remember reading there is OVER 60 DIFFERENT cannabanoids and we currently can only measure two, CBD and CBN... There is obviously other factors that contribute to the all around buzz achieved from each different strain that we have yet to be able to measure and properly see which strain gives off which buzz simply by looking at its test results.

I think the great white shark is 12% if i remember right, but it was said the combination of the other cannabaniods allow it to be a much more desirable buzz then many strains with higher measurable test results.....


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## TotalAmnesia (Oct 15, 2011)

Watching you experts chat about this is a very humbling experiance. Where would a noob go to learn about this stuff (in a noobs language)???


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## Brick Top (Oct 15, 2011)

homebrewer said:


> I think he's referring to the woman's reaction to the injections which could be considered indica vs sativa. Introverted and questioning things, that's how I am when smoking indica dominant strains, yet that's how she reacted with no cannabinoids. Giggly, goofy and positive, that's me on a sativa dominant strain which is how she reacted to the blend of THC and cannabinods.


I know what he was referring to, but that still does not make any sense. It's been well known for a good while that a high or stone as people get from smoking either a sativa or an indica does not come from THC alone. Giving someone just pure THC and then trying to compare their reaction to different types of cannabis, sativa and indica, which would have all their cannabinoids and terpenoids, is a case of connecting dots that are not meant to connect and that if connected do not create an accurate picture, and it does not become any clearer when compared to someone's reaction when given THC and cannabinoids. 

It was not difficult to tell what he was referring to. But the basis or validity for his question about sativa and indica reactions is invalid given what it is founded on.


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## bob harris (Oct 15, 2011)

Again, I find myself agreeing with Bricktop. Cannabis is a complex drug. It can be a stimulant, or a depressant...and anywhere in between, depending on genetics, growing conditions and harvest time.

The vast majority of users seem to prefer "stoned" as the effect they like. that's an indica trait, and can easily occur in a strain with low thc. It will probably have a high cbd content, as cbd tends to create the "stoned" aspect of the high. Cbd is formed as thc degrades..either from over ripening, light degradation..or simply from genetics that allow degradation as the plant matures. Therefore powerful couchlock weed is often lower in thc than you'd expect.

On the other hand, i grow a thai strain that (when harvested at trichlomes " partly cloudy "..is totally head high..motivational, energetic and inspirational. I've had mine tested, and it comes in with high thc/thcv ratings and hardly any cbd/cbn. But someone looking for "pain" meds or to get "stoned" wouldn't appreciate the high. If I harvest early, at all clear trichlomes, it would keep you awake for days.

An Indica, harvested early (clear trichlomes) may mimic a Sativa high..an over ripened Sativa may be more indica like in effect. 

It's such a complicated mix of components, that pharmaceutical companies CAN"T make it. They have made pharmaceutical thc..but it simply dosen't have the same effects as mother natures concoction...


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 15, 2011)

ResidualFreedom said:


> GreenHouseSeeds has said their Great White Shark is one of their strains with the lowest THC levels, however it is a world known strain and it is used in dispensaries all over the world.. I remember reading there is OVER 60 DIFFERENT cannabanoids and we currently can only measure two, CBD and CBN... There is obviously other factors that contribute to the all around buzz achieved from each different strain that we have yet to be able to measure and properly see which strain gives off which buzz simply by looking at its test results.
> 
> I think the great white shark is 12% if i remember right, but it was said the combination of the other cannabaniods allow it to be a much more desirable buzz then many strains with higher measurable test results.....


That's where I get hung up with the whole issue. We know that there are many, many different substances working either independently or in combination. Cannabanoid 1 could be bonding with 38 or 41 or both or all other 59, that's a lot of different possibilities. The drug valium is a simple extraction and processing from valerian root, while marijuana is much more complex from a chemistry angle.


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## Total Head (Oct 15, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> That's where I get hung up with the whole issue. We know that there are many, many different substances working either independently or in combination. Cannabanoid 1 could be bonding with 38 or 41 or both or all other 59, that's a lot of different possibilities. The drug valium is a simple extraction and processing from valerian root, while marijuana is much more complex from a chemistry angle.



this makes me wonder about paradoxical effects from cannabis. surely there are people with different "receptor configurations" who would not necessarily feel the same things from an indica (for example) as someone else. valium for example keeps me up while it knocks most people out. i realize benzos and cannabis are not the same but i think we might be oversimplifying the issue by only disscussing known reactions between cannabinoids and receptors.


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## Brick Top (Oct 15, 2011)

TotalAmnesia said:


> Watching you experts chat about this is a very humbling experiance. Where would a noob go to learn about this stuff (in a noobs language)???


Finding something factual in 'Noobanese' might be somewhat difficult, but Google is a good place to start. You just have to wade through the first dozen or twenty pages you find because they will be filled with not much more than opinions and beliefs that were shared on sites like this. The best information I find is usually found on about page 75 or page 131 or so of a Google search. That is how deep many actual scientific research findings are buried by grow room lizard opinions, highly dubious breeder claims, lying propagandistic government claims, inaccurate newspaper and magazine articles, etc.


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## Brick Top (Oct 15, 2011)

Cannabinoids, terpenoids and flavonoids are complex and different ones have numerous different effects, and not only in how one physically senses them but also in their medicinal values.

*CBG (Cannabigerol*): *Non-psychoactive, sleep inducing. Anti-microbial. Lowers intra-ocular pressure (IOP) Glaucoma.* *Trends in Pharmacological Sciences* Volume 30, Issue 10, October 2009, Pages 515-527
*CBC (Cannabichromene):* *Sedative* *effect*. *Moderates* *effects* of *THC*. *Analgesic* (*pain relieving*). Non-psychoactive. *Trends in Pharmacological Sciences*
Volume 30, Issue 10, October 2009, Pages 515-527
*THCV (Tetrahydrocannabivarin):** Stronger, faster &#8220;high*&#8221; *effect*. *Apatite suppressant*. *Euphoria*, *analgesic* (*pain relieving*).
*THC (tetrahydrocannabinol)**: Psychotropic. Analgesic (pain relieving). Apatite stimulant. Bronchial dilator. Lowers IOP/glaucoma. *
*CBD (Cannabidiol)**:* *Non-psychoactive. Reduces muscle spasms. Muscle relaxant. Analgesic (pain relieving)* *Trends in Pharmacological Sciences*
Volume 30, Issue 10, October 2009, Pages 515-527
*CBN (Cannabinol)**: Mildly psychoactive. Non-narcotic analgesic (pain relieving). Good indication of medications age.* *Trends in Pharmacological Sciences*


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## bob harris (Oct 15, 2011)

Bricktop, you're one of the few guys in these forums that always make sense...you can be my wing man anytime....


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## Brick Top (Oct 15, 2011)

bob harris said:


> Bricktop, you're one of the few guys in these forums that always make sense...you can be my wing man anytime....



I don't have to start going by the name "Goose," do I? After all, "Goose" died.


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## bob harris (Oct 15, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> I don't have to start going by the name "Goose," do I? After all, "Goose" died.


Nah...ice man will do...


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## jesus of Cannabis (Oct 15, 2011)

so it is the responsibility of a grower to try and get a pure/stable strain before it goes to the market? or can the genetics be given/gifted to many to try and stabilize the strain with the hopes of getting their genetics 1) to the masses and 2) sharing the joy of growing and refining?
make sense? I am fluffy, it makes sense to me.


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## hyroot (Oct 15, 2011)

From everything I've read, done, watched etc... To simply put it. It's the ratio between cbd and thc that makes the potency vary. cbn and cbg are gone by the time the plant is fully developed


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## Brick Top (Oct 15, 2011)

hyroot said:


> cbn and cbg are gone by the time the plant is fully developed


CBN is not gone by the time a plant is fully developed. As THC degrades/oxidized the amount of CBN increases, even after harvest. CBN is what THC becomes when it 'dies.'

Cannabinoid biosynthesis:









CANNABINOL (CBN)








Cannabinol is the primary degradation product of THC and increases in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the bud is heavily dependent on the time of harvest. Harvesting the bud at a late stage also means that the concentration of CBN in relation to THC will be higher when compared to the peak of THC production.

CBN content also increases as THC degrades during storage and with exposure to light and air. It is only mildly psychoactive and can cause "fuzzy head", drowsiness, disorientation and sleepiness in the smoker, properties that can be considered unpleasant in nature compared to the clear high of the THC. Its affinity to the CB2 receptors is higher than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that it mostly affects the body.


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## hyroot (Oct 15, 2011)

[video=youtube;lfiI78uN3Ks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfiI78uN3Ks&t=7s[/video]


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 15, 2011)

Total Head said:


> this makes me wonder about paradoxical effects from cannabis. surely there are people with different "receptor configurations" who would not necessarily feel the same things from an indica (for example) as someone else. valium for example keeps me up while it knocks most people out. i realize benzos and cannabis are not the same but i think we might be oversimplifying the issue by only disscussing known reactions between cannabinoids and receptors.


I don't think you are oversimplifying at all, yet you bring up a point that makes the issue even more complex.Marijuana has been proven to help autistic patients behave in a more normal fashion. Ritalin is an amphetamine that when introduced to certain ADD diagnosed children, has a sedative/opposite effect. I have a few friends that cannot smoke pot at all, it just doesn't affect them in the same fashion as it does us. For them, it's a bad experience as per part 2 of the opening video. 

The only thing I do know is that we all have a small amount of THC in our brains regardless of any contact with the drug, perhaps that is a determining factor on how we individually process and react when it is introduced. Just a random guess.


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## Sunbiz1 (Oct 15, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> I don't have to start going by the name "Goose," do I? After all, "Goose" died.


If you ever decide to work for the US Gov't/any pharmaceutical co., I will hunt you down and...

kidding, thank you for the good read as usual.


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## stelthy (Oct 16, 2011)

Some good info. in this thread  !! - STELTHY


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## stelthy (Oct 16, 2011)

(Brick Top)


Thats very useful info, right there  (copied  ) I already have the component diagrams 1,2 & 3 but I particularly like the 'top chart' and may have to blow it up and put an A4 poster in my Cab.  *+REP!* for being such a pro  - STELTHY


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## fatboyOGOF (Oct 16, 2011)

hyroot said:


> [video=youtube;lfiI78uN3Ks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfiI78uN3Ks&t=7s[/video]


i can't believe i watched the whole thing. it was pretty interesting. i'll have to read up on the subject. it would be pretty funny if just adding a couple of tanning lights would significantly increase thc!


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## Mr.GrÃ¸nn (Oct 16, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> CBN is not gone by the time a plant is fully developed. As THC degrades/oxidized the amount of CBN increases, even after harvest. CBN is what THC becomes when it 'dies.'


Everybody seem to agree with the above. CBN increases during storage.

However, I'm confused about CBD.

It is said that CBD is an end product. But a lot of people say it too will degrade... into... THC (!).
Are they wrong? Does it "degrade" at all, if so into what?

Also, some people tell me CBD turns into THC during growing, so it's not related to "degrading" (drying/storage).
I'm confused 

That CBD turns to THC is even stated in the youtube video in this very thread (check it out, it's worth a look. Post #21).


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## Phaeton (Oct 17, 2011)

I am autistic, idiot savant level. I have been using marijuana extract for ten years now. It has kept me from being institutionalized for that period. This is the longest period ever.

This post is because I can make various strength extracts. I do not know the secondary ingredients. At 95% THC it does not help the OCD part of me. Makes me twitchy. At 40% I just get tired all the time. 60% is just right. The other 40%, CBC, CBN, terpenoids, whatever they are, mediate the effects of THC to the point of affecting my behavior on a long term basis. Still autistic but turning down the OCD portion really makes life easier to function in.

Fluvoxamine HCl is the only other drug I found to have a positive effect similar to this, more side effects, not good ones. More than 15 different drugs were given me over my life.
175 mg of this mix per day, the origin is early harvest sativa, picked special for clear high. I have gone 12 weeks budding with no amber showing, harvest at 8 just to be sure. Yield is not what is important.

Don't know the exact chemistry, but the effects I am very close to.


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## patlpp (Oct 17, 2011)

This thread is STICKY WORTHY


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## CR500ROOST (Oct 18, 2011)

*THC % Does Not Measure The High,thats because I do..... 

*


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## Brick Top (Oct 18, 2011)

Mr.Grønn;6474223 said:


> Everybody seem to agree with the above. CBN increases during storage.
> 
> However, I'm confused about CBD.
> 
> ...


Cannabinoid Biosynthesis 








That should answer your questions.


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## Brick Top (Oct 18, 2011)

hyroot said:


> [video=youtube;lfiI78uN3Ks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfiI78uN3Ks&t=7s[/video]


This guy often says much that is accurate, but some of what he says is inaccurate. In the video he refers to CBD being psychoactive, but researchers and the DEA say it is not psychoactive.

The US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) wrote in its July 8, 2011 report "Denial of Petition to Initiate Proceedings to Reschedule Marijuana" on the website deadiversion.usdoj.gov:
"CBD is not considered to have cannabinol-like psychoactivity..."

July 8, 2011 - US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) 


Jomar M. Cunha, MD, Professor of Psychobiology at the Paulista School of Medicine (Brazil), et al., wrote in their paper "Chronic Administration of Cannabidiol to Healthy Volunteers and Epileptic Patients" in _Pharmacology_:
"Cannabidiol (CBD) seems to be devoid of psychotropic [psychoactive] activity and other undesirable side effects in humans... CBD neither interferes with several psychomotor and psychological functions in humans nor potentiates alcohol effects on these functions."

Raphael Mechoulam, PhD, Lionel Jacobson Professor of Medicinal Chemistry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, et al., wrote in their 2007 paper "Cannabidiol - Recent Advances" in _Chemistry and Biodiversity_:
"...Cannabidiol [is] a non-psychotropic plant constituent... Cannabidiol does not cause marijuana-like effects."

Shaheen E. Lakhan, MD, PhD, MEd, Executive Director of the Global Neuroscience Initiative Foundation (GNIF), wrote in his Dec. 4, 2009 article "Whole Plant Cannabis Extracts in the Treatment of Spasticity in Multiple Sclerosis: A Systematic Review" in _BioMedCentral Neurology_:
"...CBD, which is not psychotropic, may reduce THC levels in the brain and attenuate its psychotropic side effects."
[*Editor's Note*: THC is the abbreviation for D9-tetrahydrocannabinol, the main psychoactive component in marijuana.]


Dec. 4, 2009 - Shaheen E. Lakhan, MD, PhD, MEd 


A lot can be learned from The Grow Show guy, but some of what he says has to be taken with a grain of salt. He is wrong about some things he claims.


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## Matt Rize (Oct 20, 2011)

Its all about the terpenoids and flavonoids for the high. Great info bricktop.


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## k0ijn (Oct 20, 2011)

Mr.Grønn;6474223 said:


> Everybody seem to agree with the above. CBN increases during storage.
> 
> However, I'm confused about CBD.
> 
> ...



CBD is not an end product and it does not degrade into THC.
CBD is formed in the biosynthesis along side THC.

Much research is still to be done before we know everything about all the substances in Cannabis.
At this present stage we actually don't know a lot.

CBD does not turn into THC during growing either.
CBD and THC develop from the substances CBDA and THCA in biosynthesis, which in turn develop from Cannabigerolic Acid (CBGA).

I think you might have CBD and CBN confused.
THC degrades into CBN.


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## JamCE (Dec 28, 2011)

Thanks for turning me on to the channel with this guy...awesome stuff!


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## Brick Top (Dec 28, 2011)

Matt Rize said:


> Its all about the terpenoids and flavonoids for the high. Great info bricktop.


Here's a partial list of terpenoids.

*monoterpenoids (C10H16)*

alloaromadendrene (pb)
camphene (pb)
&#916;3-carene (pb)
limonene (pb)
trans-linalool oxide (pb)
myrcene (pb)
&#946;-myrcene 
cis-epoxy-ocimene 
trans-&#946;-ocimene (pb)
&#946;-phellandrene (pb)
&#945;-pinene (pb)
&#946;-pinene (pb)
sabicene hydrate 
&#945;-terpinene (pb)
&#947;-terpinene (pb)
terpinolene 
epoxy-terpinolene 


*monoterpenoids (C10H180)*

linalool (pb)
terpinene-4-ol (pb)
&#945;-terpineol (pb)


*monoterpene phenols (C10H14O)*

para cymene-8-ol (pb)


*sesquiterpenoids (C15H24)*

&#945;-bergamotene 
cis-&#945;-bergamotene (pb)
trans-&#945;-bergamotene (pb)
&#946;-bisabolene (pb)
&#946;-bourbonene (pb)
&#916;-cadinene (pb)
&#947;-cadinene (pb)
caryophyllene oxide (pb)
&#946;-caryophyllene (pb)
isocaryophyllene (pb)
&#945;-copaene (pb)
curcumene 
&#946;-farnesene 
trans-&#946;-farnesene 
germacrene B (pb)
&#945;-guaiene (pb)
&#945;-humulene 
epoxy humulene 
&#945;-muurolene (pb)
&#947;-muurolene (pb)
nerolidol 
selina-3,7(11)-diene 
&#945;-selinene (pb)
7-epi-&#945;-selinene 
&#946;-selinene (pb)
&#947;-selinene (pb)
&#946;-sesquiphellandrene (pb)
spathulenol (pb)
&#945;-ylangene (pb)


*aliphatic esters*

hexyl butyrate (pb)


*hetero compounds*

hexyl hexanoate (pb)


*phenylpropanes*

trans-anethole (pb)


*aromatic acids*

phtalic acid diethyl ester 


*misc compounds*

&#945;,&#946;-unsaturated ketone

55 terpenoids in this list


----------



## Matt Rize (Dec 28, 2011)

And we are finally starting to see these ideas applied. There now exists a CO2 extract that is completely dewaxed and de-scented, so they add limonene to the extract to give it flavor and change the affects.


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## poplars (Jan 17, 2012)

Matt Rize said:


> Its all about the terpenoids and flavonoids for the high. Great info bricktop.


I try to describe it like this to people.....

the thc , to an extent, is the speed and power of the train, the terpenoids and flavanoids, are the quality and style of the ride.

I think we should go back to the days where we had strain testers that were PEOPLE... who could tell you what the best shit was and what it did... these were much more reliable descriptions than percentages we have today....

just think how accurate these descriptions would be by now if we had not focused on percentages and continued to focus on these intuitive descriptions of cannabis strains that actually make sense....


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## Finshaggy (Feb 13, 2012)

mattthematic said:


> In fact , the local favorite is coming in at 9% , which is half of my other strains !


That's crazy to hear.
Wow.


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## CaliBoy93 (Mar 22, 2012)

Lol!! I agree.


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## BearGreenbud (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm a mechanical engineer who got into growing after being confined to a wheelchair due to an auto accident six years ago. Like most engineers it is virtually impossible to "keep it simple". I have the bad habit of needing to know not only how to due something, but why it does what it does. Bricks Top's post is the type of stuff I love to read. I've research everything about which you speak off and find this post not only informative, but right on the money. Cudos!!!


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## slowgrower (Mar 29, 2012)

I don't think this is the right place but I am desperate, I am in japan for the next 3 weeks and I just ate my last weed cookie I brought with, now I am seriously on the hunt, I know and understand the risks, but I need a small chronic break, any help or leads would be greatly appreciated, I am in osaka so if you guys have any intel hook me up.


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## devinclerk (Mar 31, 2012)

Cannabinol is the main degradation product of THC and increase in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the egg is highly dependent on time of harvest.


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## dankerous (Mar 31, 2012)

it actually consists of about 500 different chemicals,Im not sure if that is both cannabiniods and terpinoids,but apparently that is what Dr grin spoon says,and I am not arguing with him,as he is the leading dr/medical cannabis expert in his profession 




ResidualFreedom said:


> GreenHouseSeeds has said their Great White Shark is one of their strains with the lowest THC levels, however it is a world known strain and it is used in dispensaries all over the world.. I remember reading there is OVER 60 DIFFERENT cannabanoids and we currently can only measure two, CBD and CBN... There is obviously other factors that contribute to the all around buzz achieved from each different strain that we have yet to be able to measure and properly see which strain gives off which buzz simply by looking at its test results.
> 
> I think the great white shark is 12% if i remember right, but it was said the combination of the other cannabaniods allow it to be a much more desirable buzz then many strains with higher measurable test results.....


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## chocolope514 (Apr 4, 2012)

ResidualFreedom said:


> GreenHouseSeeds has said their Great White Shark is one of their strains with the lowest THC levels, however it is a world known strain and it is used in dispensaries all over the world.. I remember reading there is OVER 60 DIFFERENT cannabanoids and we currently can only measure two, CBD and CBN... There is obviously other factors that contribute to the all around buzz achieved from each different strain that we have yet to be able to measure and properly see which strain gives off which buzz simply by looking at its test results.
> 
> I think the great white shark is 12% if i remember right, but it was said the combination of the other cannabaniods allow it to be a much more desirable buzz then many strains with higher measurable test results.....



Thats amazing I can't wait until people discover what the rest of the cannabinoids do. Thats the key to being able to make medicine the exact way YOU or your (Patients) need.


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## poplars (Apr 4, 2012)

chocolope514 said:


> Thats amazing I can't wait until people discover what the rest of the cannabinoids do. Thats the key to being able to make medicine the exact way YOU or your (Patients) need.


not really... we had the perfect method then we got lost in all this bs testing. IMO.


it was better in the days of subjective testing where you got some good testers together and you could figure out which strains were good for what over time... it'll take science a long ass time to catch up to what cannabinoids do what, in the mean time we can go back to that classic method of testing. 

I mean if it works it works right? who needs to know what fuckin chemical does what when it simply _works._&#8203;


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## vilify (Apr 5, 2012)

poplars said:


> not really... we had the perfect method then we got lost in all this bs testing. IMO.
> 
> 
> it was better in the days of subjective testing where you got some good testers together and you could figure out which strains were good for what over time... it'll take science a long ass time to catch up to what cannabinoids do what, in the mean time we can go back to that classic method of testing.
> ...


there is actually patient testing going on here in michigan. 
i will be lab testing my bud, but only for contaminants.


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## poplars (Apr 5, 2012)

vilify said:


> there is actually patient testing going on here in michigan.
> i will be lab testing my bud, but only for contaminants.


see I fully agree with lab testing for comtaminants, but that's about it. props bro.


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## vilify (Apr 5, 2012)

here is the flyer on patient testing.
its not 100% of what really needs to be done, but what really needs done, would have to be on a MUCH larger scale.
Would be easier if breeders could get their new stuff out to places like this for testing even before release. Testing wouldnt really add any time to release dates.

All it takes is to hand out samples to those in the test for each condition, and they can report back the next day. Day or 2 to chart and make decisions based on information.


i believe meds need to be the best of quality for patients, and every patient. i dont know whos going to buy my stuff, whether its just chronic pain, or for cancer.
so why risk letting something potentially harmful to a lowered immune system slip through for anyone.. Just my opinion.


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## poplars (Apr 5, 2012)

vilify said:


> here is the flyer on patient testing.
> its not 100% of what really needs to be done, but what really needs done, would have to be on a MUCH larger scale.
> Would be easier if breeders could get their new stuff out to places like this for testing even before release. Testing wouldnt really add any time to release dates.
> 
> ...


yep I couldn't agree more... I just know that my climate is very antimold thankfully, but even I would get my shit tested if I was in a legit business.


but most likely I'm gonna be in the connoisseur bud business more so than the medical bud business.... though my connoisseur bud will be extremely medicinal, it wont be specific medical bud....


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## st0wandgrow (Apr 10, 2012)

poplars said:


> not really... we had the perfect method then we got lost in all this bs testing. IMO.
> 
> 
> it was better in the days of subjective testing where you got some good testers together and you could figure out which strains were good for what over time... it'll take science a long ass time to catch up to what cannabinoids do what, in the mean time we can go back to that classic method of testing.
> ...



I agree with you to an extent, but as someone already mentioned earlier in the thread, an individuals chemical makeup will interpret the effects of the various cannabinoids differently.

One person may experience paranoia and a racing heart from a land race sativa, and another person may experience more of a euphoric high. Also, a persons tolerance to these various cannabinoids would have to be factored in, along with the issue of consistently being able to verbalize the users experience in a useful manner. 

The scientific testing can at least be consistently applied, eliminating many of the variables that human testing simply cannot account for.


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## poplars (Apr 10, 2012)

st0wandgrow said:


> I agree with you to an extent, but as someone already mentioned earlier in the thread, an individuals chemical makeup will interpret the effects of the various cannabinoids differently.
> 
> One person may experience paranoia and a racing heart from a land race sativa, and another person may experience more of a euphoric high. Also, a persons tolerance to these various cannabinoids would have to be factored in, along with the issue of consistently being able to verbalize the users experience in a useful manner.
> 
> The scientific testing can at least be consistently applied, eliminating many of the variables that human testing simply cannot account for.


certified testers and several of them eliminate this issue. and is a LOT easier to pull off than individually identifying every cannabinoid and its function and part of the high....


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## BullwinkleOG (Jun 3, 2012)

its the set and setting that forms the high


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## poplars (Jun 3, 2012)

BullwinkleOG said:


> its the set and setting that forms the high


definitely agree with this, however we are probably all assuming the set and setting is good in this thread


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## thecrushinator (Jun 23, 2012)

Like others have stated here, the differing amount of cannabinoids inside of your unique strain of cannabis determine your high. Some have high thc with low cbd some have moderate levels of both, some of high cbd low thc. There is an endless combination of medicines. I suggest next time you go to dispensary to discuss this with your budtender, they are most of the time educated in this subject. Toke on!


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## george xxx (Jul 15, 2012)

I did not read the whole thread because the testing has serious issues. Whether the factors are THC or cannabinoids is irrelevant. You cannot compare intravenious feeding of any drug to smoking or orally ingesting. The results are very different. Today things are much diffetent than it was in the 60s. Weed was everywhere and drug samples were handed out on street corners like it was candy. There was little you could swallow at the time I did not try melt and shoot. What you swallow cannot and will not have the same effect when it goes in your arm. The testing is therefore somewhat useless. Its like using mice to test drugs for human consumption.


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## MightyBlaze (Aug 5, 2012)

yes it is great to hear the experts talk about this.


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## bde0001 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not sure the thc rating or anything other rating BUT, I do know a strain called juicy fruit or "fruity juice" was the most amazing high AND taste I have ever experianced. It tasted soo sweet and it brought upon a high that I have never experianced before or have ever experianced since last time smoking it.(sounds like it was laced, but i dont think so) I looked up its description online and it sounds like what I had experianced. Unfortunetly they do not have female seeds, and they say it is "unstable" where each plant will have different affects. My brother in law introduced me to this strain which he purchased for $25 a gram and they were packaged in little glass jars. the smell was amazing, the taste was amazing, the high was amazing. RIP JONNY CASH


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## bde0001 (Aug 26, 2012)

I read that juicy fruit had thai in it. Not sure the genetics, if anyone knows the genetics/strains in juicy fruit, let me know and i would GREATLY APPRECIATE IT. It would be nice if I could create a stable strain and dedicate it to Jonny by naming it Jonny Cash.


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## Moebius (Aug 27, 2012)

Just posted in W.O.H thread but pertinent to this one also. ..... The highs of Cannabis can be assisted with the Aroma of essential oils. ... I love using them with weed. Can really help with stress etc.

*Examples of some common Terpenes found in Cannabis:

-Borneol*- menthol, camphor, pine, woody. Can be easily converted into menthol. Found in Cinnamon and Wormwood. It is considered a "calming sedative" in Chinese medicine. It is directed for fatigue, recovery from illness and stress.

-*Caryophyllene *- spicy, sweet, woody, clove, camphor, peppery. Found in black pepper(15-25%), clove(10-20%) and cotton(15-25%). It binds weakly to CB2 receptor. As a topical it is one of the constituents of clove oil, an anti-inflammatory and analgesic treatment for toothache. In high amounts, it&#8217;s a calcium and potassium ion channel blocker. As a result, it impedes the pressure exerted by heart muscles. Since THC does not have a smell, drug dogs are trained to find one, very smelly molecule called Caryophyllene-epoxide!

-*Cineole/Eucalyptol*- spicy, camphor, refreshing, minty. Found in rosemary, eucalyptus. It is used to increase circulation, pain relief and easily crosses the blood-brain-barrier to trigger fast olfactory reaction. Eucalyptus oil is considered centering, balancing and stimulating. It is possibly the stimulating and thought provoking part of the cannabis smoke stream.

*-Delta3Carene*- sweet, pine, cedar, woodsy, pungent. A constituent of rosemary, pine and cedar resin. In aroma therapy, cypress oil, high in D-3-carene, is used to dry excess fluids, tears, running noses, excess menstrual flow and perspiration. It may contribute to the dry eye and mouth experienced by some marijuana users.

-*Limonene*- citrus (orange, tangerine, lemon, and grapefruit), rosemary, juniper, peppermint. Repulsive to predators. Found in the rinds of many fruits and flowers. With the presence of other certain terpenes, Limonene can be an anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, anti-depressant and anti- carcinogen. It can synergistically promote the absorption of other terpenes by quickly penetrating cell membranes. The result can be increased systolic blood pressure. Since Limonene is such a potent anti-fungal and anti-cancer agent, it is thought to protect against aspergillus fungi and carcinogens found in cannabis smoke streams! 

-*Linolool-* floral (spring flowers), lily, citrus and candied spice. Possesses anti-anxiety and sedative properties (also in lavender). 

-*Myrcene *&#8211; clove like, earthy, green-vegetative, citrus, fruity with tropical mango and minty nuances. The most prevalent terpene found in most varieties of marijuana, it is also present in high amounts in Mangos, hops, lemon grass, East Indian bay tree, verbena and Mercia. Myrcene is one of the most important chemicals used in the perfumery industry. Because of its pleasant odor, it is occasionally used directly. It&#8217;s a building block for menthol, citronella, and geraniol. It possesses antimicrobial, antiseptic, analgesic, antioxidant, anti-carcinogen, anti depressant, anti-inflammatory, and muscle relaxing effects. Myrcene affects the permeability of the cell membranes, allowing more THC to reach brain cells.

-*Pinene*- _Alpha_: pine needles, rosemary _Beta_: dill, parsley, rosemary, basil, yarrow, rose, hops, the familiar odor associated with pine trees and their resins. It is the major component in turpentine and is found in many other plant essential oils including rosemary, sage, and eucalyptus. Pinene can increase mental focus and energy, as well as act as an expectorant, bronchodilator (the smoke seems to expand in your lungs), and topical antiseptic. It easily crosses the blood-brain barrier where it inhibits activity of acetylcholinesterase, which destroys acetylcholine, an information transfer molecule, resulting in better memory. It may counteract THC's activity, which leads to low acetylcholine levels. Largely due to the presence of pinene, rosemary and sage are both considered "memory plants." Concoctions made from their leaves have been used for thousands of years in traditional medicine to retain and restore memory.

-*Pulegone*- mint, camphor, rosemary, candy. It is implicated in liver damage in very high dosages. It is found in tiny quantities in marijuana. Pulegone is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. That is, it stops the action of the protein that destroys acetylcholine, which is used by the brain to store memories. 

-*Sabinene *- Found in oak trees, tea tree oil, black pepper and is a major constituent of carrot seed oil. 

-*Terpineol*- floral, lilac, citrus, apple/orange blossoms, lime. It is a minor constituent of many plant essential oils. It is used in perfumes and soaps for fragrance. It reduces physical motility 45% in lab rat tests&#8230; Couch-lock effect?

SOURCE : http://terpenes.weebly.com/


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## BurlingtonBam (Oct 7, 2012)

Everyone's DNA is different, as is everyone's reason for smoking weed. Some for nausea, some depression, some just because they're bored, and others for all those reasons. lol. It makes perfect sense to me that people may like a certain high. Hell, if you get one of the crazy smokes and can't move a muscle but have a ton of shit to do, that's not that good. lol. I think it's a matter of different people liking different highs, as well as different people's DNA's using different weeds differently. Some are just classics though. I mean think of it like this, just because something knocks you on your ass doesn't mean its going to be your favorite. lol. 




mattthematic said:


> Hello All ,
> 
> New user here . Not so new grower . No old timer either .
> 
> ...


----------



## Medigan (Dec 28, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> I watched the video and saw nothing to support any reason for you to *"question the reasoning behind the commonly held notion that Sativas are always energetic and Indicas are sleepers.*"
> 
> It has long been known that cannabinoids work in conjunction with each other, as do some terpinoids. Some work to enhance the effects of THC and others work against the effects of THC. None on their own will produce a good high.
> 
> ...


great info! Thanks


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## walkswithyahweh (Jan 11, 2013)

i think it all depends what you are using it for. for me. i got fybro and a pure indica is the best for my condition. i would rather have a pure indica at 18% thc the a sativa at 30%. now ill still vape that sativa don't get me wrong but im a medical cannabis user first and a conasure of fine cannabis second.


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## walkswithyahweh (Jan 11, 2013)

but indica's fill me full of energy and let me do what ever i need to do with out really getting me "high". but thats because i got fybro. my back is normaly all tense so when i use and indica it looseness it up to be normal. a normal person it knocks them on there ass because they just took a large amount of muscle realaxers. thats why it knocks them on their asses. a satavia just gets me all stoned with out really healping my fybro. unless the satavia is high in cbd then i can feel the medical benafits of it.


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## SBR (Feb 18, 2013)

I have some White Russian that is indica and it has me energetic.....


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## hairbear (Feb 27, 2013)

super cool


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## UnrepentantRogue (Mar 13, 2013)

Sunbiz1 said:


> ...The drug valium is a simple extraction and processing from valerian root ...


Valium is chemically synthesized and not derived from valerian root.


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## beuffer420 (Mar 13, 2013)

I hate valiums


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## questioneverything (May 3, 2013)

All of us are uncertain, none have access to all studies and resources. Although i am not proposing to end the discussion, perhaps it would be good to rely on some statistics as they could help string together what has until now proven to be a very complex issue. If those interested were to agree on some popular categories for effects of strains, a list could be compiled with each individual's experience smoking that particular strain that could be assigned to a category and we could construct a list mapping out the various effects. People who looked at the strains' biochemistry in detail would surely profit for this hugely, as it could give some relativity to the area. Knowledge of how it was grown would evidently be a key component. If the idea is popular, the complexity of the list could be developed, including factors such as the ethnicity, age, size and sex of each participant. I would suggest to those who like the idea to involve more people, as the list might otherwise lack data and be of minor significance.


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## Garden420 (Dec 16, 2013)

&#8203;Just smoke it.


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## Dr.greenn (Jan 6, 2014)

Our brains, perceptions, and reactions to cannabis are all as different as our faces.


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## NorthRiverNugz (Jan 9, 2014)

I just read through this whole thread and it got me thinking......... 

Are the terpenes, flavinoids and other cannabinoids found in the plant matter,the trichomes or both? If both, which specifically are found where? Also, when vaporizing am I getting extra of these goodies as opposed to smoking? Is it possible fire/heat destroys these elements as it does THC? I notice when I vaporize my meds as opposed to smoking I have increased appetite stimulation along with a very heavy sleepy feeling. These effects are not initially onset but rather 2-3 hours after medicating. I'm mainly asking because I love me some ice hash but at the same time am wondering if it would be best to just vaporize plant matter if there are extra medicinal benefits(flavinoids, terpenes etc.)


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## qwizoking (Jan 9, 2014)

Its all in the trichs..yes heat messes with most of the terpenes, thc is also a terpene


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## urban1026835 (Jan 9, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;vMnG6w7rmzg]http://youtu.be/vMnG6w7rmzg[/video]


----------



## urban1026835 (Jan 9, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;Bvx9AkPO03k]http://youtu.be/Bvx9AkPO03k[/video]


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## qwizoking (Jan 9, 2014)

That guy makes me laugh every time I watch it


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## Sand4x105 (Jan 9, 2014)

And thanks for bringing back a two year old... then one year old thread...


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## Dennisweed813 (Jan 22, 2014)

A lot of u people are really air headed. It all depends on the strain ur smoking that produces which high fits you. Most strains are hybrids. thc/cbd it all depends on ur type of high but whatever testifys the thc % the highest = stronger


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## CannaHelpYou (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm just speaking from experience, I'm not an expert, but I have smoked a lot as the only tester for the dispensary that I worked at. I found that super high THC wasn't the main factor. There had to be a particular balance of CBD and THC. I rarely felt a "high" from high CBD, but I did get pain relief. I have never smoked a sativa that caused couch lock. But we did have strains that if you looked them up on sites. One would call it a sativa and one would call it an indica. I found that the only way to tell was the shape of the leaves and smoking it. I don't know if this is true, but some of our ADD and bi-polar patients had opposite effects with sativa and indica, although some of our patients may have "forgotten" that they ate a 420 bar the day before. Which for me would counteract any indica I would have smoked!


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## tookrazy (Feb 5, 2014)

Dennisweed813 said:


> A lot of u people are really air headed. It all depends on the strain ur smoking that produces which high fits you. Most strains are hybrids. thc/cbd it all depends on ur type of high but whatever testifys the thc % the highest = stronger


Agreed


Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using Rollitup mobile app


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## TryN (Feb 21, 2014)

I wonder when science will put this to rest ...


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## Doer (Feb 24, 2014)

You guys realize 1) there are still unknown substances in there. 2) it effects everyone differently. 

On the wall of my clinic is a sign that talks about 1/5 of people have a reversed effect for sativa vs indca.


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## qwizoking (Feb 24, 2014)

Interestingly enough I've never seen a stimulant overdose resemble anything other...
If it was reversed would their natural endocannabinoid system not be thrown out of whack?
(Its a rhetorical question, I know the answer)
I always laugh when I hear people say this..


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## profterpen (Mar 6, 2014)

Awesome answer, I agree. THC is a complex structure and the potency is effected by CBD's, CN's, and Terpens just to name a few. The timing of the harvest is very important also. Invest in a good loop and keep a close eye on your tri's. Aim for slightly cloudy tri's, just as they start to amber. Then fine tune is from there. 

Prof. Terpen 
The 420 Institute


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## Doer (Mar 6, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> Interestingly enough I've never seen a stimulant overdose resemble anything other...
> If it was reversed would their natural endocannabinoid system not be thrown out of whack?
> (Its a rhetorical question, I know the answer)
> I always laugh when I hear people say this..


What kind of question is that? Are you an endocrinology expert become I was talking about iso-reciptor binding in the brain.

Never mind...just sound so off base,."thrown out of wack" That has no meaning,not even in Rhetoric. There are no experts in endocannabioid systems, IAC.

There is study of it which you could try some. Some endo-cabss are what are reversed, Iso-molecules. And so, some of the subjective experience is reversed.

"Interestingly enough I've never seen a stimulant overdose resemble anything other..." More meaninglessness. Good job. Maybe try to read some science.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165614700014826 
Cannabinoid receptors, the molecular targets of the cannabis constituent &#916;[SUP]9[/SUP]-tetrahydrocannabinol, are present throughout the body and are normally bound by a family of endogenous lipids &#8211; the endocannabinoids. *Release* of endocannabinoids *is stimulated in a receptor-dependent *manner by neurotransmitters and requires the enzymatic cleavage of phospholipid precursors present in the membranes of neurons and other cells. Once released, the endocannabinoids activate cannabinoid receptors on nearby cells and are rapidly inactivated by transport and subsequent enzymatic hydrolysis. These compounds might act near their site of synthesis to serve a variety of regulatory functions, some of which are now beginning to be understood. Recent advances in the biochemistry and pharmacology of the endocannabinoid system in relation to the opportunities that this system offers for the development of novel therapeutic agents will be discussed.


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## qwizoking (Mar 6, 2014)

lol....
thanks for that..yes i am actually and my doctorate is in pharmacology 
i thought all of riu was aware of that by now

there is a huge difference between reversed and receptor dependant.. would that 1 in 5 actually become hungrier after eating a big meal? this is what i meant by thrown out of whack..im not gonna argue here.we arent talking about sensitivities but a reversal. i gave a stimulant example, the body releases hormones and such with an intended effect say adrenaline. if the bodies receptors were reversed it would be "thrown out of whack" unable to function properly and be classified with some disease
this isnt even a topic that can be argued


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## Doer (Mar 6, 2014)

If you had a doctorate, (and who the fuck cares, ego head) you would not say "out of wack" twice as if that had some meaning.

Also, any PhD worth his salt, can speak a lot better than you, is more clear and careful with explanations. I work all day with PhDs.

But, like I said, who the fuck cares? All RIU on 3700 posts. Nice self liub.


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## qwizoking (Mar 6, 2014)

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=out+of+whack

lol
sounds like someone's having a bad day


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## Texas(THC) (Mar 6, 2014)

Doer said:


> If you had a doctorate, (and who the fuck cares, ego head) you would not say "out of wack" twice as if that had some meaning.
> 
> Also, any PhD worth his salt, can speak a lot better than you, is more clear and careful with explanations. I work all day with PhDs.
> 
> But, like I said, who the fuck cares? All RIU on 3700 posts. Nice self liub.


you are getting defensive over nothing...
and bro you have 11,000+ post

Sorry no offense to you Doer just hear people out and be open minded
we are all here to learn


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## Olears (Mar 12, 2014)

The rockodile hunter strikes again!


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## Squidbilly (Jul 9, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> Its all in the trichs..yes heat messes with most of the terpenes, thc is also a terpene


Is it all in the trichs? I do not believe so...
This is part of the reason some of the 'white' strains can be covered in resin but be mediocre in the potency department. Or some of the least resin covered buds can be the most potent. It's also part of the reason I believe wax or dabs aren't as medicinal as smoking flower-your only getting what's in the trichs, not all the flavinoids/terpenes/etc. I could be wrong, but these are observations I've made during my years smoking. Dabs give me a really narcotic, jackie chan, couch lock high without any of the other benefits smoking flower gives me(help with my adhd/ocd/appetite/anxiety). I've been trying to figure out why and I believe it's because terpenes/cannabinoids/flavinoids are left behind in the bho extraction. Anyone else have any thoughts about that?


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## qwizoking (Jul 9, 2014)

THC along with all the cannabiniids and terpenes are only produced in the trichrome.
Having a lot of frost doesn't mean potency. Flavor doesn't get you high, many super frosty plants are low odor as well. Many compound s are produced within including waxes and crap
How did you get that out of my post

In other words, yes your wrong


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## qwizoking (Jul 9, 2014)

Its because your using too much heat in the evap/purge. Your extract should smell strong and be exactly like the herb in effect. I also prefer the easier to purge, alcohols. Which also extract a wider range of compounds and at different rates. Terpenes etc are more welcome


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## Squidbilly (Jul 9, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> Its because your using too much heat in the evap/purge. Your extract should smell strong and be exactly like the herb in effect. I also prefer the easier to purge, alcohols. Which also extract a wider range of compounds and at different rates. Terpenes etc are more welcome


It's not my technique, and I've tried many different people's extractions and I prefer the high of flower. There's got to be terpenes that are destroyed/left behind with any extraction. I think even making bubble destroys some of them, I'm sure butane must destroy some. New research is saying how important 'flavors' are to the high and the reason two strains can have the same exact cannabiniod profile, but vary so differently in effect-the terpenes have a huge impact on the overall high. I know I'm not the only one who thinks the high from flower is better then bho. So if all the terpenes are in the trichs/resin then the process of making bho depletes/alters/destroys some of the terpenes? Sure good oil smells great, but not near as strong as the bud it was made from.


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## Yodaweed (Jul 9, 2014)

Doer said:


> You guys realize 1) there are still unknown substances in there. 2) it effects everyone differently.
> 
> On the wall of my clinic is a sign that talks about 1/5 of people have a reversed effect for sativa vs indca.


I have the reversed effects, I tend to smoke only sativas because it helps me a lot with my ADD/ADHD. Most of the strains that are medical for ADHD and ADD are sativas and it seems that people with those disorders seem to have different effects when smoking marijuana. I been smoking my whole life because it is the only thing that can really help me without having terrible side effects.


----------



## qwizoking (Jul 9, 2014)

You realize that's normal right?
Nothing reversed there. Sativas help you focus, I mainly grow s.a landraces. Love that mind fire


Yes there are many reasons I don't do bho.. it is much more selective than an alcohol extract

Good oil smells much stronger than bud. Its basically cannabis essential oils, it will fill the place up. Especially wax. Most people don't extract properly though


----------



## Doer (Jul 10, 2014)

I report. I discuss. You argue like children and throw your egos around.

Have a nice day.


----------



## Doer (Jul 10, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=out of whack
> 
> lol
> sounds like someone's having a bad day


Out of wack? And you will quote an online idiom dictionary and claim you have a pHD.

No. Sorry. A fake. Have a nice day.


----------



## Sativied (Jul 10, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> I have a phd...
> 
> In other words, yes your wrong







It's spot the fake day today!


----------



## Yodaweed (Jul 10, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> You realize that's normal right?
> Nothing reversed there. Sativas help you focus, I mainly grow s.a landraces. Love that mind fire
> 
> 
> ...


I love the wax I get from the dispensary the hummingbird nectar they sell here in Colorado is amazing so gold and tastes amazing!


----------



## Doer (Jul 10, 2014)

Texas(THC) said:


> you are getting defensive over nothing...
> and bro you have 11,000+ post
> 
> Sorry no offense to you Doer just hear people out and be open minded
> we are all here to learn


My post count means nothing my friend as I am not bragging about myself and say everyone one should know who I am "by now."

But my long career as an actual computer scientist means I can smell the virtual, ego driven bs from here

I know all about the petty forum tyrants on RIU

So just step back if regulating chumps bugs you  I just do that.


----------



## Texas(THC) (Jul 10, 2014)

oh wow forgot I posted that
like I said though "no offense"


----------



## Doer (Jul 10, 2014)

This is not about me, but about you taking offense at something directed at someone else.

I was business traveling for a few days.


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## Texas(THC) (Jul 10, 2014)

no I was commenting on something said to another person
I took no offense from the statement

I was following the thread and saw you called out someone's post number than noticed you had way more
I just thought it was kind of funny
didn't mean anything by it was just trying to get the discussion back on track

haha and a few days..?
I posted that in March

sorry anyways, don't be mad at me


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## Choo (Jul 27, 2014)

All I know is that for many of us it is the differences that make the cannabis experience so unique. If Cannabis only supplied one kind of experience at a given level then I truly believe that many of us would not be so intrigued and drawn to it. It's like beer, one kind does not suit all tastes. God saw fit when creating Cannabis to give it, and all plants for that matter, an ability to morph and adapt to various conditions. (Sorry if that offends any atheists here but it's my belief not yours). He also gave man an intelligence that caused him to want to alter things and plants were altered through breeding for specific traits and I for one am thankful for that. I have the kind of Cannabis today that suits my needs because of the work of breeders and I thank God for the differences. My arthritis diminishes in it's effects on me when I use it and that's what matters most. For me it's Sativa that does it, and I found a strain that closely resembles the Oaxaca type we used to get back in the late 60's and early 70's that works real well. It is not debilitating like Indicas tend to be so I can function yet it relieves the pain in the joints, or more accurately diverts attention away from the pain.


----------



## Letstrip (Aug 7, 2014)

Has anyone noticed that the trichomes change more browny during curing? Would this be CBN?


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## straingrades (Sep 19, 2014)

I know people stand on polar opposite beliefs here. Personally I think the effect of Marijuana varies and different strains do have specific qualities we are drawn to for whatever reason we choose to medicate. We want the high that feels the best. If a strain is too high in THC and not well balanced it's potent without the effect. The opposite is true if it's too low in THC there is a minor effect but it's not potent you wont feel like it really hit you... I want to be knocked on my ass.


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## Doer (Sep 20, 2014)

Knocked on my ass to good effect... Right ON!


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## ogreballerina (Nov 21, 2014)

Agreed to the fact that high THC does not always make a great high.
Years of smoking and growing proved that to me long ago.


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## qwizoking (Dec 8, 2014)

Lmao..all them drugs and the random butt injection


----------



## Skylor (Dec 16, 2014)

I want to feel good but that doesn't always mean I want to be knocked on my ass. I tend to enjoy Sativa later at night and Indicas during the day. Opposite of many people,

Sativa can bring on headaches later in the day and get me too spacey. Indicas let my body feel good yet my head feels more clear .

Sleep is a big deal, one needs to get enough sleep each night, that doesn't not mean a set amount of sleep but all the sleep the body wants each night. As I grown older, I need more sleep. I used to get by on 4 to 6 hours of sleep in my 20-30's, now I need 6-7 hours most nights

I used to be able to fall asleep for a couple of hours and wake up and stay awake for 1--2 hours while getting high, then fall back to sleep. Now I wake up during the night but am too sleepy to stay awake.

I try to do what my body wants to do. Its not always possible.

I never drink booze cause I then need more sleep which I don't have the time for--pills are another no no. Booze and or pills might feel good at first but in the long run they drag your body down, IMO


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## SpondyMama27 (Mar 4, 2015)

Okay my question in regards to the THC CBD phenomenon is as follows, where do I find a resource regarding known effects of THC high strain vs. CBD high strains topically and ingested specifically? Does that make sense? Does that resource exist? Obviously a nube here...

(Also I think legal states should offer up grants to those of interested in studying this topic, shall I write a congressperson?)


----------



## SpondyMama27 (Mar 4, 2015)

Brick Top said:


> I watched the video and saw nothing to support any reason for you to *"question the reasoning behind the commonly held notion that Sativas are always energetic and Indicas are sleepers.*"
> 
> It has long been known that cannabinoids work in conjunction with each other, as do some terpinoids. Some work to enhance the effects of THC and others work against the effects of THC. None on their own will produce a good high.
> 
> ...


Agreed, as much as I can in my ignorance, but I've been enjoying a sour tsunami out of humbolt that has a 12% CBD and a 7% THC. My pain relief (cervical spodylosis with bone spurs) is remarkable but surprisingly my high is relaxing but manageable. My point being in my narrow research on the subject I was suprised by the high I got from such a low THC% strain. Definitely an unexpected bonus.


----------



## danbridge (Sep 27, 2015)

THC is what gives you the euphoric effect. CBN &CBD etc is for pain or stopping epelitic seziures. Yes, THC percentage DOES matter when it comes to the strenghth of the high. I smoke for high THC percentages between 25- 30%. Everything else to me is practically shwag. I am shocked that THC is not the most popular chemical in cannabis.


----------



## Final Phase (Sep 27, 2015)

TotalAmnesia said:


> Watching you experts chat about this is a very humbling experiance. Where would a noob go to learn about this stuff (in a noobs language)???


I'm no expert by any means... more like an experienced grower... What I have learned is there is a lifetime of learning and it will never end due to changes in technology and the what the scientific/medical world is learning. All you need to do is start reading and growing... Tons of disagreements in many areas. You will have to educate yourself in what to believe and what to ignore. Happy Growing!


----------



## ryan1918 (Jan 13, 2016)

I've never thought of this, this is pretty cool thought and I do agree with you 100% because I've had some thrax and some stuff that you thought was boo boo and what do you think was the best?


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## ryan1918 (Jan 13, 2016)

What do you mean dies? Can you explain?



Brick Top said:


> CBN is not gone by the time a plant is fully developed. As THC degrades/oxidized the amount of CBN increases, even after harvest. CBN is what THC becomes when it 'dies.'
> 
> Cannabinoid biosynthesis:
> 
> ...


----------



## chuck estevez (Jan 13, 2016)

ryan1918 said:


> What do you mean dies? Can you explain?


brick top hasn't been here for years


----------



## mustbetribbin (Feb 2, 2016)

It's the Natural cycle of life of a THC molecule, time or heat can break it down into less desirable cannabinoids such as CBN, which has less than 10% of the pschoactivity found in THC.

There's ways to convert it back to THC, but it's time consuming and expensive. Much better to just get it the way nature intended from the start, fresh off the plant. 

I agree 100% with the op , don't fall for high THC gimmick strands, although it is a good indication that it is a powerful strain, her Majesty doesn't restrict her love to just the THC and CBD she produces. Follow the scent of your nose it usually always steers me the right direction when finding the right strain, although there are exceptions, trial and error for them all still.


----------



## Bubbleblower (May 25, 2016)

mattthematic said:


> I am trying to understand why some strains make people giggle and chat and others make people sleep . THC % is not the deciding factor . CBD ? CBN ? Other Magic Stuff ?


Terpenes, for example humulene makes you giggly and cheerfull and myrcene makes you sleep.

The best cannabis has significantly more terpenes, while cannabinoids are the same:
Emerald Cup winners vs overall

Research in the Netherlands shows the same, the more terpenes are in there the higher a strain gets rated, 
while the same isn't true for cannabinoids.


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## CarpeNocturnum (Jun 2, 2016)

poplars said:


> I try to describe it like this to people.....
> 
> the thc , to an extent, is the speed and power of the train, the terpenoids and flavanoids, are the quality and style of the ride.
> 
> ...


Absolutely not. Anecdotal evidence is the lowest form of evidence. Objective markers is science


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## CarpeNocturnum (Jun 2, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> THC along with all the cannabiniids and terpenes are only produced in the trichrome.
> Having a lot of frost doesn't mean potency. Flavor doesn't get you high, many super frosty plants are low odor as well. Many compound s are produced within including waxes and crap
> How did you get that out of my post
> 
> In other words, yes your wrong


you're wrong and full of shit.


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## qwizoking (Jun 2, 2016)

In general secondary metabolites are toxic and must be held in a storagecavity to prevent cell deathand indeed thca and cbga cause 100% cell death in 10 day old suspension cultured cannabis sativa cells at 50um(through apoptosis). The cannabinoid precursors do not have this effect and some can be found in leaf material The results of reverse transcription pcr and heterologous expression suggest that THCAsynthase is localized in the apoplastic space of the glandular trichome only


terps can give some effect certainly, but nobody is getting high off aromatherapy
the terps produced by other plants are the same. the pinene or whatever is the same
same... the esters and everything else etc



what is "wrong" in my post


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## JohnMotayo (Jun 26, 2016)

This whole thread is definitely an interesting read. while THC does play an important part, there is so many variables at play including how you grow it and where you grow it, what kind of strain, and just a lot to think about. I figure up to a certain point THC plays a part, but once you hit that certain % the rest is up to you. Thanks for sharing all your responses everyone!


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## HazednConfused (Sep 24, 2016)

This is a 100% legit question. Does anybody know any reasoning behind why I cannot get high off of edibles? I don't know if it's a high metabolism thing or what, but I can eat 100+ mgs of thc within an hour's time and I feel nothing, even up 5 hours later. I have never felt a body high or head change or anything from ANY type of edible, no matter the quality. I've eaten everything from delta 9 chocolates to fucking homemade brownies and nothing works! Any reasoning behind this? I'm tired of wasting my fucking money every time I decide to buy edibles from dispensaries and they don't do shit. Doesn't matter if it's a free edible sampler or a brand name shit, no edible has ever given me a body high or anything. I'm tired of biting a 250mg brownie in half, and not feeling shit even 5+ hours later. Maybe I should give up! Anybody else ever experience this or have any help? Thanks guys!


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## qwizoking (Sep 24, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> This is a 100% legit question. Does anybody know any reasoning behind why I cannot get high off of edibles? I don't know if it's a high metabolism thing or what, but I can eat 100+ mgs of thc within an hour's time and I feel nothing, even up 5 hours later. I have never felt a body high or head change or anything from ANY type of edible, no matter the quality. I've eaten everything from delta 9 chocolates to fucking homemade brownies and nothing works! Any reasoning behind this? I'm tired of wasting my fucking money every time I decide to buy edibles from dispensaries and they don't do shit. Doesn't matter if it's a free edible sampler or a brand name shit, no edible has ever given me a body high or anything. I'm tired of biting a 250mg brownie in half, and not feeling shit even 5+ hours later. Maybe I should give up! Anybody else ever experience this or have any help? Thanks guys!


Your brain is broken.. You have a couple years top to live


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## SPLFreak808 (Sep 24, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> This is a 100% legit question. Does anybody know any reasoning behind why I cannot get high off of edibles? I don't know if it's a high metabolism thing or what, but I can eat 100+ mgs of thc within an hour's time and I feel nothing, even up 5 hours later. I have never felt a body high or head change or anything from ANY type of edible, no matter the quality. I've eaten everything from delta 9 chocolates to fucking homemade brownies and nothing works! Any reasoning behind this? I'm tired of wasting my fucking money every time I decide to buy edibles from dispensaries and they don't do shit. Doesn't matter if it's a free edible sampler or a brand name shit, no edible has ever given me a body high or anything. I'm tired of biting a 250mg brownie in half, and not feeling shit even 5+ hours later. Maybe I should give up! Anybody else ever experience this or have any help? Thanks guys!


Nobody really knows, I've heard its linked to stomach problems such as digestive/gastrointestinal issues. 

I have ibm issues but i will be sleepy as a motherfucker for a very long time (6-8 hours) after a 250mg brownie. It never hits me like a ton of bricks and seems to move slowly,too slow to be comfortable which i find weird because im a small dude at 155lbs 5'9, i prefere smoking anyday over edibles because i feel more overwhelmed and calm in the head.


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## HazednConfused (Sep 24, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> Your brain is broken.. You have a couple years top to live


Sounds about right having inoperable brain cancer and everything.


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 24, 2016)

SPLFreak808 said:


> Nobody really knows, I've heard its linked to stomach problems such as digestive/gastrointestinal issues.
> 
> I have ibm issues but i will be sleepy as a motherfucker for a very long time (6-8 hours) after a 250mg brownie. It never hits me like a ton of bricks and seems to move slowly,too slow to be comfortable which i find weird because im a small dude at 155lbs 5'9, i prefere smoking anyday over edibles because i feel more overwhelmed and calm in the head.


I've never been diagnosed or had issues with stomach ore gastro problems in general so hopefully it's not some shit like that. I was thinking maybe metabolism plays a role but maybe not. I'm about 6', 220


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## qwizoking (Sep 24, 2016)

Im
6'2 220lb. Pretty lean guy

I can't think of any reason properly made edibles wouldn't work


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 24, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> Im
> 6'2 220lb. Pretty lean guy
> 
> I can't think of any reason properly made edibles wouldn't work


Yeah, I'm pretty lean too, that's why I figured maybe my metabolism just destroys the thc really fast or something. Can't think of much else. Oh well. Good thing smoking works.


----------



## qwizoking (Sep 24, 2016)

Have you tried a sublingual? Or decarbed hash oil and saturate coconut oil?
Different roa might help.
I've never seen this in conducted studies...

I usually always recommend oral use of using as medication. Less fluctuations and avoid some of the bi phasic effects that smoking can bring


----------



## SPLFreak808 (Sep 24, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty lean too, that's why I figured maybe my metabolism just destroys the thc really fast or something. Can't think of much else. Oh well. Good thing smoking works.


Don't think so... Like i said im 5'9 155lbs, been a cardio freak right out of highschool as a boxer for 8 years, and i still to this day run 11 miles every 4/5 days just to keep my health in check. My metabolism is no joke lol my entire dinner is out my stomach if i roll with jiu jitsu partners for an hour or pull a 10 mile sprint. Edibles move slowly through my system but last really long, 100mg just makes my eyes water, 200mg will sit me down.


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## HazednConfused (Sep 24, 2016)

SPLFreak808 said:


> Don't think so... Like i said im 5'9 155lbs, been a cardio freak right out of highschool as a boxer for 8 years, and i still to this day run 11 miles every 4/5 days just to keep my health in check. My metabolism is no joke lol my entire dinner is out my stomach if i roll with jiu jitsu partners for an hour or pull a 10 mile sprint. Edibles move slowly through my system but last really long, 100mg just makes my eyes water, 200mg will sit me down.


Well I guess I'll take it from you when it comes to the busting the metabolism theory. Fuck it, I'm going to buy a 1000mg chocolate bar, eat the entire thing and see what happens.


----------



## SPLFreak808 (Sep 24, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> Well I guess I'll take it from you when it comes to the busting the metabolism theory. Fuck it, I'm going to buy a 1000mg chocolate bar, eat the entire thing and see what happens.


Do it sober, on an empty or light stomach. If it don't work then fuck it lol


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 25, 2016)

SPLFreak808 said:


> Do it sober, on an empty or light stomach. If it don't work then fuck it lol


Hahaha, I haven't had thc induced panic attacks in a long ass time, but something tells me 1000mgs might bring them back!


----------



## Psyphish (Sep 25, 2016)

Would be interesting to try strains that are bred completely different than what we're used to. THC-V for example is still difficult to find and I'm sure there are others like CBC.


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 25, 2016)

If this doesn't get me high, I will never buy edibles again. It's 500mgs, 10 servings of 50mgs. Supposedly 10 grams went into making it, which is most likely a bunch of shake. But thc is thc right? I took a tenth sized bite, I'm going to wait 30mins to an hour and see where I'm at.


----------



## qwizoking (Sep 25, 2016)

nobjustbeat thevwhole thing nowv.

go hardpr gobhome


----------



## SPLFreak808 (Sep 25, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> If this doesn't get me high, I will never buy edibles again. It's 500mgs, 10 servings of 50mgs. Supposedly 10 grams went into making it, which is most likely a bunch of shake. But thc is thc right? I took a tenth sized bite, I'm going to wait 30mins to an hour and see where I'm at.


I hope they dont use shakes to make those kind of packaged edibles... that would be a shame. Im surprised you only took a 1/10th bite after complaing about nothing working lol

Quiz and i would gobble that fucking bar for fun


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 25, 2016)

SPLFreak808 said:


> I hope they dont use shakes to make those kind of packaged edibles... that would be a shame. Im surprised you only took a 1/10th bite after complaing about nothing working lol
> 
> Quiz and i would gobble that fucking bar for fun


I only ate a 10th because it says 10 grams went into it so I figured I ate a whole gram of activated weed. I normally. Smoke gram blunts so I was going to see if it is similar in strength.


----------



## qwizoking (Sep 25, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> I only ate a 10th because it says 10 grams went into it so I figured I ate a whole gram of activated weed. I normally. Smoke gram blunts so I was going to see if it is similar in strength.


its not..

it typically takes 3 times the amount, this accounts for the duration though of edibles


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 25, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> its not..
> 
> it typically takes 3 times the amount, this accounts for the duration though of edibles


Alright. I just ate another fair sized bite. This bitch was $20.


----------



## Trace Dix (Sep 25, 2016)

BrickTop I just want to say thanks for your plethora of information, I loved this forum I forgot actually forgot for a moment that I am Pissed cause I haven't been able to smoke with my asthma for two weeks. Do you have any info/advise on asthma and its effect from marijuana. Cause I love to smoke, I've tried edibles but I'm not getting the same from edibles. I have a large vaporizer with the bag but it seems to really burn my throat so it sits unused. 
And if I'm being honest, I do enjoy a lovely joint the taste/smell/comfort. I've been set in my ways so long and I think I kind of blew it when I tried shatter and liked it and kept using it (it only took 2mths) and I am praying my lungs settle down.
Do vape pens work?

Thanks for the charts I'm really enjoying


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 25, 2016)

Trace Dix said:


> BrickTop I just want to say thanks for your plethora of information, I loved this forum I forgot actually forgot for a moment that I am Pissed cause I haven't been able to smoke with my asthma for two weeks. Do you have any info/advise on asthma and its effect from marijuana. Cause I love to smoke, I've tried edibles but I'm not getting the same from edibles. I have a large vaporizer with the bag but it seems to really burn my throat so it sits unused.
> And if I'm being honest, I do enjoy a lovely joint the taste/smell/comfort. I've been set in my ways so long and I think I kind of blew it when I tried shatter and liked it and kept using it (it only took 2mths) and I am praying my lungs settle down.
> Do vape pens work?
> 
> Thanks for the charts I'm really enjoying


Sucks to hear about your asthma! I'm not brick top but I can tell you that vape pens do work, but it is a different kind of high. I have used Dab face, openvape, and flavrx. The concentrate in the dab face cartridges is super thick and is my top choice. Just pull in the vapor until the light starts blinking, hold that shit in for 5 seconds, exhale, and eyes are watering like a mofo. The dab face j1 and silver haze are my favorite. The hit is super smooth! the off-flavor ones like strawberry wild and other fruity ones aren't worth it. Always go strain specific or if they are sold by sativa, indica, hybrid. This is what I go to when my throat is fucked up from too many blunts. Stay lit


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## Trace Dix (Sep 25, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> Sucks to hear about your asthma! I'm not brick top but I can tell you that vape pens do work, but it is a different kind of high. I have used Dab face, openvape, and flavrx. The concentrate in the dab face cartridges is super thick and is my top choice. Just pull in the vapor until the light starts blinking, hold that shit in for 5 seconds, exhale, and eyes are watering like a mofo. The dab face j1 and silver haze are my favorite. The hit is super smooth! the off-flavor ones like strawberry wild and other fruity ones aren't worth it. Always go strain specific or if they are sold by sativa, indica, hybrid. This is what I go to when my throat is fucked up from too many blunts. Stay lit


Thx and I'm not too sure what is a favrx? Sorry I have no experience with new stuff I'm all old school till my boys 27/23 introduced me to dabs
Sorry I'm learning


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## verny (Sep 25, 2016)

guys in nature everything works in synergy...there is no 1 compound creating what you subjectively feel!..where does consciousness factor into this equation?,am i writing this because a couple of neurons are firing in my head?

the mechanistic view of the brain and therefore humans can never complete the mystery known as life!


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## HazednConfused (Sep 25, 2016)

Trace Dix said:


> Thx and I'm not too sure what is a favrx? Sorry I have no experience with new stuff I'm all old school till my boys 27/23 introduced me to dabs
> Sorry I'm learning


FlavRx is just a brand of dab concentrate and catridges. Glad to help!


----------



## SPLFreak808 (Sep 25, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> Alright. I just ate another fair sized bite. This bitch was $20.


Nothing yet?


----------



## qwizoking (Sep 25, 2016)

SPLFreak808 said:


> Nothing yet?


shoukda ate the whole thing. but bitched out and took a bite, waited an took another bite.

justvskewing results


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 25, 2016)

SPLFreak808 said:


> Nothing yet?


I'm feeling good bro. I ate about half of it, 250mgs. I'm at work right now, zoning like a motherfucker. I guess all I needed was a quality edible at a decent dose; I think my general thc tolerance is pretty high. For someone that struggled getting high on so called edibles like 10mg sweet sour liquorice bites, I approve korova 51/50 bars are the shit. I was on the brink of anxiety when the rush first hit me, but that shit quickly subsided. Im strongly doubting they use shake for their bars, now.


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 25, 2016)

qwizoking said:


> shoukda ate the whole thing. but bitched out and took a bite, waited an took another bite.
> 
> justvskewing results


Lol @ bitched out.


----------



## SPLFreak808 (Sep 25, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> I'm feeling good bro. I ate about half of it, 250mgs. I'm at work right now, zoning like a motherfucker. I guess all I needed was a quality edible at a decent dose; I think my general thc tolerance is pretty high. For someone that struggled getting high on so called edibles like 10mg sweet sour liquorice bites, I approve korova 51/50 bars are the shit. I was on the brink of anxiety when the rush first hit me, but that shit quickly subsided. Im strongly doubting they use shake for their bars, now.


Nah it's probably the previous edibles you have tried was just crap made from reggie trim, then you ate 1mg at a time lmao... Jk


----------



## HazednConfused (Sep 25, 2016)

SPLFreak808 said:


> Nah it's probably the previous edibles you have tried was just crap made from reggie trim, then you ate 1mg at a time lmao... Jk


Lol I wouldn't doubt it dude! These motherfuckers at the dispensaries are ruthless with the convenient, snack size edibles that are like $5, which are stationed strategically next to the register to get people like me to use that last $5 out of the $80 that I had to spend, originally(buying an eighth of some murder cali buds, and a couple grams, coming out to about $75). And these so-called 80mg "morsels", which are placed amongst other bullshit gum-drop/fruit candies, do not do a thing when I eat 1-3 of them at a time.


----------



## Flowki (Nov 22, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> Lol I wouldn't doubt it dude! These motherfuckers at the dispensaries are ruthless with the convenient, snack size edibles that are like $5, which are stationed strategically next to the register to get people like me to use that last $5 out of the $80 that I had to spend, originally(buying an eighth of some murder cali buds, and a couple grams, coming out to about $75). And these so-called 80mg "morsels", which are placed amongst other bullshit gum-drop/fruit candies, do not do a thing when I eat 1-3 of them at a time.


This is the scary part with edibles, it's too hard to quality control it with ought trying it and unless all is mixed evenly it's incredibly easy to over do it particularly after under doing it as you were, being the main reason I've kept away from edibles after initially trying them. I'd get back to them when able to make them myself though. I did like the high better, or it felt different anyway.

The other scary downside of edibles is careless people leaving ''chocolate'' around the house for the kids to pick up on the way out. Might be funny in the movies but not if they live in a busy town/city not to mention how terrifying it would be for a young kid to be high as fuck and not know what it is or why. You also have idiots who think it's funny to hand out edibles with-ought telling people what it is. I know a few people who won't ever touch weed because of bad experiences like that, on top of people who make a very strong joint and pass it to a first timer/light weight ''smoke half mate you'll be fine''.

Reminds me of when a friend made a joint and sneak laced it full of green with crystals sprinkled on top when we were out for a night on the drink. Was just suppose to be relaxing joint to pass around the group of mostly light smokers but after 45min was only 3 people left, the rest wondered off home or in a cupboard somewhere. I was still sitting their but not due to being a heavyweight, only because I could not move ;p. He must have done it to show off in some way but obviously didn't think it through, completely ruined the night. That story is really funny though looking back, I was talking to one friend for about 10 min then my phone rang, picked it up and it was the same friend ''I'm in the house mate, wrecked''. Was like magic.

Well, off on a bit of a rant but you know, just a warning to others for doing too much or unknowingly giving too much to others.


----------



## zoic (Dec 15, 2016)

Brick Top said:


> I It was first isolated by Raphael Mechoulam, Yechiel Gaoni, and Habib Edery from the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, in 1964.


 Such a well written post, top drawer. From 1000's of hours of research I have done I feel you were spot on. I cannot find a single line that I would disagree with or change. Kudos.
I dragged only this bit into the quote because I have watched the hour long video by Mechoulam and I cannot imagine anyone could not benefit from watching it.


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## zoic (Dec 15, 2016)

TotalAmnesia said:


> Watching you experts chat about this is a very humbling experiance. Where would a noob go to learn about this stuff (in a noobs language)???


I think a can offer a great starting point for you. When you finish many many hours of reading a research you will likely understand and agree with everything Brick Top says, or at least it worked for me.
Try LEAFLY and ALLBUD


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## zoic (Dec 15, 2016)

poplars said:


> it was better in the days of subjective testing where you got some good testers together and you could figure out which strains were good for what over time


Until a few years ago I would agree with this sentiment. Now my wife finally started using it and we seem to have disparagingly different opinions of the effects, both in getting high and relieving pain.


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## tstick (Dec 15, 2016)

Interesting thread! I see it originated a long time ago...but the subject is still timely because "science" has obviously not completely figured out exactly how cannabis gets people high. People thought it was all about the THC for a long, long time....doesn't appear to be that way anymore

Like many people on this forum, I am old enough to know about all the old strains from first-hand experience. I grew up in the 60's and 70's. I can honestly say that I don't remember ever seeing trichomes on old school cannabis. Of course, they must have been there -mashed and compacted within the bricks...just saying' it wasn't anything like looking at the fine, undisturbed, carefully-dried/cured, crystal-coated buds of today.

Quite often, those bricked-up buds were dry...or they were moldy....either way! It was always a surprise.  -the point being that those strains were hardly ever handled properly....and yet....

..the flavors were there....heavy blueberry, skunk, caramel, moss, etc. -each distinctive in its own way -as in VERY distinctive. 

And I can also say, from experience, that I have sampled several strains reported to be over 30% THC. So, IF the potency was just due to THC, then I should be able to feel a more intense effect from smoking it. Fact is, it's just not so.

Could it be that those old school strains were receiving something from their native soil?.....from the angle of the Sun?...from the local water supply? 

But wait!....

IF that were the case, then how is it that most of the old school, _homegrown_ cannabis we had back then -grown under fluorescent shoplights or MH streetlight bulbs was just as ( or, even _more_) potent, too?

So, if it wasn't the native soil, etc., and if it wasn't the light...then it must be the genetics...right? 

What happened?

Breeders looking for "stealthy", less-skunky-smelling strains were selecting for all the traits that made it easier and less risky for them. They selected for less recognizable smells or for light-smelling (thus, low terpene producing) phenotypes. They selected for shorter, fatter growing strains for the same reason -stealth and convenience of production. This meant breeding more Indica traits into strains. These Indicas had different effects than strains coming from South of the border that we had gotten used to smoking. As time went on, everything became a hybrid. Sometimes, hybrids produced chemical profiles that worked together....but other times there seemed to be a "push/pull" effect going on where the uplifting aspects of the Sativa traits were attenuated by the more sedative properties of the Indicas...and visa-versa.

A lot of what's out there now is just a bunch of mishmash that's hit-or-miss depending on the combination of strains and how good of a job the grower did with it. Girl Scout Cookies, for example is a strain that stood out from literally thousands of strains. Chemdawg was another one from earlier times, too. With all the supposed great genetics out there, you would think it to be hard to go wrong with almost anything. In reality, most of it is completely unremarkable and ends up being a kind of psychological version of the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes" -meaning that no one wants to really admit that their weed, with all of its "bred-for-high-THC" qualities, doesn't change the fact that old, landrace strains with their relatively lower THC levels are still more effective. 

The only solution I have found is to grow strains from regular seeds and hope I find one of "THE" strains that recalls some (or all) of those old properties. In any case, growing is a kind of rewarding "high" of its own and that will have to suffice until I meet someone who has kept a pure line of breeding for the last 40-50 years.


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## zoic (Dec 15, 2016)

thecrushinator said:


> Like others have stated here, the differing amount of cannabinoids inside of your unique strain of cannabis determine your high.


First I want to say I am not picking on you, this was just a good point to interject. If it were just as simple as bits and pieces I would be thrilled. Now that my wife smokes as well, I have a better baseline to compare from. There are so may things that can affect your high but my obs are that pain is at the top of the list. Both of us have noticed that it takes much more to get high if we are in a lot of pain.

Due to my MS (auto-immune disease) I can get wasted from a few puff on one joint, while at other times I can smoke like a chimney all day and not get a buzz until after dinner. Mood, stress, diet and plenty of other things have an effect as well. I do want to know the numbers to derive a sensible level of efficacy and dosage, but they are just a generalized guideline for me.


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## zoic (Dec 15, 2016)

tstick said:


> A lot of what's out there now is just a bunch of mishmash that's hit-or-miss depending on the combination of strains and how good of a job the grower did with it.


So true. Even though Tweed gives good information about cannabenoids and terpenoids, you have to figure out what it means to you.



> With all of its "bred-for-high-THC" qualities, doesn't change the fact that old, landrace strains with their relatively lower THC levels are still more effective.


YEP, landrace strains are the best, which is why I like REAL hash when I can get it.



> The only solution I have found is to grow strains from regular seeds and hope I find one of "THE" strains that recalls some (or all) of those old properties. In any case, growing is a kind of rewarding "high" of its own and that will have to suffice until I meet someone who has kept a pure line of breeding for the last 40-50 years.


I wish you luck. The old school growers I know cannot tell me for certain what the lineage of their grows are. Most of them just grow good stuff year after year and never really tried to keep up with all the new tech and hybrids. I have many seeds now but really no idea which ones were from which strain. So it is going to be pot luck unless and decide to just buy some seeds online


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## zoic (Dec 15, 2016)

NorthRiverNugz said:


> I'm mainly asking because I love me some ice hash but at the same time am wondering if it would be best to just vaporize plant matter if there are extra medicinal benefits(flavinoids, terpenes etc.)


Ice hash (bubble hash) is damn potent I found and very harsh. I disfavor it because ice like too high heat destroys the terpenes. Without those you cannot get the "entourage effect". For me whole plant extract is by far the most effective medicinally.


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## tstick (Dec 15, 2016)

Yeah, man...Back in the day, I must have thrown POUNDS of landrace seeds out the window. Everyone I knew had jars full of seeds....and most all of them got thrown out after awhile. What a waste.

The old hash wasn't the same either. It was black and oily and it had an incredible, heavy flavor. Some argue that that hash was very impure. I don't know. 

I have made bubble hash many times and there are a few tricks to getting the highest terpenes from it. For one, you have to use distilled water and distilled ice. Otherwise, I have found there to be a chlorinated taste. And there are other things like how you agitate the slurry of water, weed and ice....too long to go into on this thread.

I like to make my trim and larf into bubble hash first and then turn the lower grades of hash into rosin.


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## tstick (Dec 15, 2016)

Check THIS out! 

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000336


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## zoic (Dec 15, 2016)

HazednConfused said:


> Does anybody know any reasoning behind why I cannot get high off of edibles? I'm tired of wasting my fucking money every time I decide to buy edibles from dispensaries and they don't do shit.


IMHO you asked and answered your own question. None of the edibles I purchased from dispensaries worked at all for me either. I made my own a few weeks with mere shake and they were awesome. I am minutes away right now from straining my current brew of cannabutter so I can make some more cookies tomorrow. Best of all is that since I started this adventure my MS has gone into remission, way more than it ever has before. Try making your own with cookies or fudge, you make be pleased with the outcome. I would expect it will likely be less expensive.
Cheers!


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## zoic (Dec 15, 2016)

SPLFreak808 said:


> I hope they dont use shakes to make those kind of packaged edibles... that would be a shame. Im surprised you only took a 1/10th bite after complaing about nothing working lol
> 
> Quiz and i would gobble that fucking bar for fun


LOL me too. Bet you can;t eat just one :


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## OldMedUser (Jan 9, 2017)

Read the whole thread here and it's all quite interesting and very informative.

Here's something else to add to the possibilities. I followed a link from in here that @tstick posted a couple posts above to ProCon. looked around in there and found a listing of the known cannabinoids and their known variables. Delta9 THC has 9 known variables and CBD has 7. Makes sense to me that these variables would have variable effects as well.

You can check it out here. http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000636


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## Trichometry101 (Jun 7, 2017)

Modern domestic weed sucks on so many levels. Its all about commerce. The high has been ignored for bag appeal. The thc-breeding is definitely one of the reasons modern weed isn't that great.

I get higher on reggie.. There, i said it. An 8th of decent reggie will get my ass higher than a gram of decent domestic weed. Especially compared to dispensary weed. Its a better buzz, just have to vape 4 times as much. Domestic pot hits ceiling after what, 2 hits? I can't get any higher off domestic weed than the first hit..

I think edibles from the dispensaries dont work because they don't smell or taste like weed. Its not that i trust their dosage labels, but that theres more to it than that.. Ive only gotten trippy off cookies that tasted like weed.

I dont believe cbd has much to do with it either. Cbd talk is just marketing spiel to me.

Is that just because of dispensaries? So many people think higher cbd levels recreates the classic giggle weed. Not in my experience with buying the stuff. Its probably weed that wouldn't get anyone high, so they relabeled as cbd strains..


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## RM3 (Jun 7, 2017)

Trichometry101 said:


> Modern domestic weed sucks on so many levels. Its all about commerce. The high has been ignored for bag appeal. The thc-breeding is definitely one of the reasons modern weed isn't that great.
> 
> I get higher on reggie.. There, i said it. An 8th of decent reggie will get my ass higher than a gram of decent domestic weed. Especially compared to dispensary weed. Its a better buzz, just have to vape 4 times as much. Domestic pot hits ceiling after what, 2 hits? I can't get any higher off domestic weed than the first hit..
> 
> ...


All about how it is grown


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## zoic (Jun 7, 2017)

Trichometry101 said:


> Modern domestic weed sucks on so many levels. Its all about commerce. The high has been ignored for bag appeal. The thc-breeding is definitely one of the reasons modern weed isn't that great.


I tend to agree mostly with that.



> I get higher on reggie.. I can't get any higher off domestic weed than the first hit..


I do not know what reggie is, but I have the same effect, I do not seem to get any higher. I smoke hash for that reason, it is more potent to begin with, then I just keep getting higher. Same for oil and kief. 



> I think edibles from the dispensaries dont work because they don't smell or taste like weed. Its not that i trust their dosage labels, but that theres more to it than that.. Ive only gotten trippy off cookies that tasted like weed.


No trust here for dispensaries, results are inconsistent, prices are too high and I have no doubt that many of them sell weed sprayed with bad pesticides.



> I dont believe cbd has much to do with it either. Cbd talk is just marketing spiel to me.
> Is that just because of dispensaries? So many people think higher cbd levels recreates the classic giggle weed. Not in my experience with buying the stuff. Its probably weed that wouldn't get anyone high, so they relabeled as cbd strains..


I would look again on that one sir. CBD not only provides excellent medical benefits, it also gives you the "entourage effect". CBD is an antagonist to THC so in essence it modulates the high, making it last longer. That may be a lot to swallow but you can verify all this and learn so much more about CBD (which is no doubt to me in my hash). 

https://www.projectcbd.org/


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## BobCajun (Jun 7, 2017)

The THC levels shown on labels are deceptive anyway. I saw a guy press the rosin from some supposed 30% weed and he only got 15% after 2 pressings. They would have to test every gram they sell to provide a true THC level, and then it would be used up in the test, so that ain't gonna happen. Any two buds from different parts of the plant can vary by 100%, ie; one being twice the other. That figure isn't supposed to be exact or anything, I just have read that lower buds can be half what upper buds are.


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## OldMedUser (Jun 7, 2017)

When you press rosin a lot of the oils are still stuck in the pot you just pressed tho. When they test in the lab they use solvents to remove all the oils form the pot then measure the percentage of the various cannabinoids in the oil recovered.

I spent about an hour just now trying to find out if the %THC or other cannabinoids relates to how much in dry plant material or the % of each in the total amount of oil extracted from a specific amount of dried material. All sorts of stuff about preparing samples for testing with various methods and how much sample to use but nothing about how the percentage rating relates to what you ingest.

I've come to the conclusion that it must be relative to the total amount of oil extracted but I still don't know for certain and I do like to have the facts before stating I know what I'm talking about. I have been accused of being wrong before. 

This is why I came to the conclusion I did. If it was the percent relative to the dry material, pot that is rated 20%THC would have 200mg of THC in a single fat joint and would put all but the most chronic of tokers in orbit. Or a rubber room for a few days. 

200mg of THC in an edible might make you the first cannabis fatality ever. Here, try this. It'll make ya famous.  

If anyone knows for sure and has a link or two to the info too, (had to do that last too.  ), I'd sure like to see it.


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## BobCajun (Jul 2, 2017)

tstick said:


> Yeah, man...Back in the day, I must have thrown POUNDS of landrace seeds out the window. Everyone I knew had jars full of seeds....and most all of them got thrown out after awhile. What a waste.
> 
> The old hash wasn't the same either. It was black and oily and it had an incredible, heavy flavor. Some argue that that hash was very impure. I don't know.
> 
> ...


Know what the average potency of hash was in the old days? I read an article on it. They tested a bunch of different ones, Leb, Afghan, Moroccan, all the common ones, average about 5%. Dead serious. Weed was like 1-3%, probably because it was all seeded and the seed was half the weight.


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## Michiganjesse (Oct 29, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> When you press rosin a lot of the oils are still stuck in the pot you just pressed tho. When they test in the lab they use solvents to remove all the oils form the pot then measure the percentage of the various cannabinoids in the oil recovered.
> 
> I spent about an hour just now trying to find out if the %THC or other cannabinoids relates to how much in dry plant material or the % of each in the total amount of oil extracted from a specific amount of dried material. All sorts of stuff about preparing samples for testing with various methods and how much sample to use but nothing about how the percentage rating relates to what you ingest.
> 
> ...


I eat that much in one chocolate my wife more. She once ate 800mlg at once


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## PhenoMenal (Nov 12, 2017)

i use Thin Layer Chromatography  to determine the ratio of CBD (if any) to THC, and it also lets me see if other cannabinoids are in abundance like CBG, CBN, CBC etc ... _BUT_, really it only gives you a look at those ~half dozen or so cannabinoids (and doesn't tell you anything about the ones that are <1%, other than eg "nope, no THCV in this one"), and it says pretty much _nothing_ about the terpene profile too, and for example it seems established that myrcene contributes to a 'drowsy' stone but I have no way of checking for that! at the end of the day there's no substitute for a proper lab test  ... but Thin Layer Chromatography (and Beam's Test if you want to check for presence of CBD) are still fantastic tools for home users!


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## OldMedUser (Nov 13, 2017)

PhenoMenal said:


> i use Thin Layer Chromatography  to determine the ratio of CBD (if any) to THC, and it also lets me see if other cannabinoids are in abundance like CBG, CBN, CBC etc ... _BUT_, really it only gives you a look at those ~half dozen or so cannabinoids (and doesn't tell you anything about the ones that are <1%, other than eg "nope, no THCV in this one"), and it says pretty much _nothing_ about the terpene profile too, and for example it seems established that myrcene contributes to a 'drowsy' stone but I have no way of checking for that! at the end of the day there's no substitute for a proper lab test  ... but Thin Layer Chromatography (and Beam's Test if you want to check for presence of CBD) are still fantastic tools for home users!


What are you using for standards with your TLC to know what cannabinoids are presenting? It's been almost 30 years since I've used it to determine nicotine from tobacco samples that we first extracted using vacuum distillation but we had pure nicotine standards to compare our results with.

I'm into growing some hi-CBD strains and would love to get into doing fairly accurate home testing rather than coughing up $75 per sample to get some idea of my pot's potency for more accurate dosing.


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## PhenoMenal (Nov 14, 2017)

the commercial kits like AlphaCat etc have online manuals and images showing which is which, but some of them disagree, and some use Fast Blue BB others use Fast Blue B, and the resulting position also varies depending on the eluent! But THC, CBD, CBG, and THCV especially are all very easy to spot straight away, first from their distinct colors but also their positions in relation to each other. CBN can also be determined from degrading the sample ie over-decarb'ing as the THC spot gets smaller and the CBN one grows, and that usually just leaves CBC as the other main one.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 14, 2017)

i don't have any clinical information, but for a long time, i've been paying attention to terpenes and its been my experience that strains with high pinene and humulene don't effect me much. it seems to be an individual response, friends will get all fucked up smoking the same weed that doesn't seem that potent to me.
contrarily, myrcene and caryophyllene almost guarantees that i'm going to be happy.
lemonene and linolool seem to be hit and miss, usually good, but not as good as the spicy, woody tasting terps.
unfortunate for me, i really enjoy the taste of pinene, but so far, pinene doesn't effect me much.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 14, 2017)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1476-5381.2011.01238.x/pdf
i'm slowly working my way through this, looking up stuff that i don't understand...which is most of it, but even so, pretty interesting reading


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## tstick (Nov 14, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> i don't have any clinical information, but for a long time, i've been paying attention to terpenes and its been my experience that strains with high pinene and humulene don't effect me much. it seems to be an individual response, friends will get all fucked up smoking the same weed that doesn't seem that potent to me.
> contrarily, myrcene and caryophyllene almost guarantees that i'm going to be happy.
> lemonene and linolool seem to be hit and miss, usually good, but not as good as the spicy, woody tasting terps.
> unfortunate for me, i really enjoy the taste of pinene, but so far, pinene doesn't effect me much.


I agree with this....mostly...except lemony strains are the ones that give me a headache almost 100% of the time. Some of them, like Super Lemon Haze and Lemonder smell delicious....but, nope....not for me.

It's the terpenes that make/create a skunky nose and a spicy, woody, hashy flavor that hangs in the sinus and pallet long after the smoke is exhaled that makes me happy....and it's oh-so-rare to find anything like that, these days.

I never remember any lemony strains from the old days....and not many piney ones, either. I just remember the rotten blueberry and skunk strains -the ones that were dangerous to grow back in the day because of the level of stink. It was almost a dead giveaway to the authorities....And that's, ultimately why those strains are so rare today. It's really just a bunch of "show buds" with cute names, today. In essence, the trimming and growing is done better than it used to be with better lights and specialized equipment, etc...but _the stinky-genetics, themselves_, are so buried, now. I hope they make a serious comeback, someday! I don't care to try any more "Ghost OG Strawberry CreamTrain" or any of it's cousins...been there, done that. I know good weed when I SMELL it!


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## Sureshot2 (Nov 22, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> When you press rosin a lot of the oils are still stuck in the pot you just pressed tho. When they test in the lab they use solvents to remove all the oils form the pot then measure the percentage of the various cannabinoids in the oil recovered.
> 
> I spent about an hour just now trying to find out if the %THC or other cannabinoids relates to how much in dry plant material or the % of each in the total amount of oil extracted from a specific amount of dried material. All sorts of stuff about preparing samples for testing with various methods and how much sample to use but nothing about how the percentage rating relates to what you ingest.
> 
> ...


THC absorption from smoking a joint is very poor though compared to other methods. Probably in the range of 25-35% of that 200mg. Regarding potent edibles, I dose my mother close to 800mg a day, using 4x a day 200mg caps that I lab test each run to be sure. I wouldn't give it to someone who doesn't use edibles much, but certainly you can build tolerance and consume _very_ large amounts without ill effect.

edot: damn I didn't realize how old that post was lmao.


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## Beachwalker (Apr 28, 2018)

mattthematic said:


> Hello All ,
> 
> New user here . Not so new grower . No old timer either .
> 
> ...



.. in 1975 I smoke some Panama Red that I had to pull over and put the joint out.

there's nothing anywhere near it today and that red likely was grown in a field, dried in the Sun and pressed into a brick before it got to me and it was 10 times anything around today. just my two cents, good luck


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## BionicΩChronic (May 3, 2018)

Beachwalker said:


> .. in 1975 I smoke some Panama Red that I had to pull over and put the joint out.
> 
> there's nothing anywhere near it today and that red likely was grown in a field, dried in the Sun and pressed into a brick before it got to me and it was 10 times anything around today. just my two cents, good luck


 u need to smoke some of my flower then....

Dude said grown in field dried in the sun and pressed into a brick and STILL 10 times better than anything.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (May 3, 2018)

BionicΩChronic said:


> u need to smoke some of my flower then....
> 
> Dude said grown in field dried in the sun and pressed into a brick and STILL 10 times better than anything.


you have to account for nostalgia, old guys remember shit way differently than it really happened. i know this, because i'm an old guy, and there's no way the past occurred as i recall it....


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## BionicΩChronic (May 3, 2018)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> you have to account for nostalgia, old guys remember shit way differently than it really happened. i know this, because i'm an old guy, and there's no way the past occurred as i recall it....


Haha I think your right. Nostalgia has a way of over emphasizing certain aspects of the experience. I bet if he smoked some panama red today he wouldn't even get high...


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## Beachwalker (May 5, 2018)

BionicΩChronic said:


> u need to smoke some of my flower then....
> 
> Dude said grown in field dried in the sun and pressed into a brick and STILL 10 times better than anything.


Will you there? do you know? 

..didn't think so.

I do.


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## Beachwalker (May 5, 2018)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> you have to account for nostalgia, old guys remember shit way differently than it really happened. i know this, because i'm an old guy, and there's no way the past occurred as i recall it....


The only exaggeration there was saying 10 times it was twice as good as the real Acapulco Gold and that was three times better than anything current, so I'd say 6 x anything current

..maybe you need to comment more about shit you don't know  bionic chronic?


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## Roger A. Shrubber (May 5, 2018)

i was there, i smoked a lot of brickweed.....when we got something that wasn't smashed all to shit, we were pretty happy. when we got something that wasn't smashed to shit, and actually smelled good, we were joyous....but i honestly can't say that weed from 35 years ago was that great compared to what i grow today.
i think it was more that my receptor cells weren't already clogged up with resin, and i hadn't killed half my lifetime allowance of brain cells yet


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## Z3r0Z3r0 (May 5, 2018)

Get more CBD in the toke and you wont feel as high in fact it will prevent negative effects. I at over 100 mg today of CBD and smoked maybe 2 bowls and a blunt of CBD flower mixed with some mids weed and Im pretty chill not too blasted, this is why strains like harley quinn and cannatonic exist so you can function and maybe say a boss or authoritive figure doesnt see you look like Pauly Shore lol


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## Beachwalker (May 5, 2018)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> i was there, i smoked a lot of brickweed.....when we got something that wasn't smashed all to shit, we were pretty happy. when we got something that wasn't smashed to shit, and actually smelled good, we were joyous....but i honestly can't say that weed from 35 years ago was that great compared to what i grow today.
> i think it was more that my receptor cells weren't already clogged up with resin, and i hadn't killed half my lifetime allowance of brain cells yet


Well that wouldn't be out first difference of opinion would it Mr.shrub! LOL I don't know whats happened to the weed these days I don't know if it's over bred or if governments did something to it (gmo?) but in my opinion its of no comparison to the weed in the mid-70s ( and I'm far from the only one who feels like that )

I've even wondered if the cannabis feminization process has hurt the weed ? I stopped smoking for the most part when I stop growing in about 95, when I got married. then 21 years later I came back and this is what I found, just my opinion and my observation

I feel kinda bad for the people who think they're smoking killa shit, it's nothing like it was in the 70s, just my opinion but I've smoked and sold a lot of it in the 70s so it's an informed opinion at least

I remember it well, and I still have some pictures of it, I'll dig up what I can find at some point and post them somewhere


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## ANC (May 5, 2018)




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## ANC (May 5, 2018)

Beachwalker said:


> Well that wouldn't be out first difference of opinion would it Mr.shrub! LOL I don't know whats happened to the weed these days I don't know if it's over bred or if governments did something to it (gmo?) but in my opinion its of no comparison to the weed in the mid-70s ( and I'm far from the only one who feels like that )
> 
> I've even wondered if the cannabis feminization process has hurt the weed ? I stopped smoking for the most part when I stop growing in about 95, when I got married. then 21 years later I came back and this is what I found, just my opinion and my observation
> 
> ...


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## Beachwalker (May 5, 2018)

ANC said:


>


Great explanation, thank you for posting this!


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## Beachwalker (May 5, 2018)

Spoke briefly with Dr. Gruber about Green Thumb Panama Red, he's got a thread by that name running now

Can't tell but on Green Thumb website that looks a lot like I remember the real Panama Red looking ? Dr. Gruber says it is, says he smoked it back in the 70s and it's the same weed ?

https://drgreenthumb.com/cannabis_seeds_GreenthumbSeedsEntrance.htm

long story short this fall I'm going to buy and try, they're a bit pricey for my liking but I'm going to give it a shot, hope against hope I guess, looking forward to it, maybe even do a grow thread on it..


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## OldMedUser (May 6, 2018)

I smoked my first joint when I was 14 and that was 1968.

The first buds I ever grew in '78 were bagseed Thai Stick, Jamaican Red Hair, Maui Wowie and some anonymous Mexican sativa. About the first pot we ever got in Calgary back then that wasn't Mexican dirt pot/brickweed was the Thai.

I was driving cab then and a dealer I transported often and would score from gave me a stick to try and offered me weight if I wanted it at $400/lb when bricks were going for $200 but 1/3 of that weight was stems and seeds that ain't got the buzz this old head needs.

He said to roll my joints as skinny as I could make them but I took it as a sales pitch. Got my buddies over to try it out and twisted up one doob about half as thick as a cigarette. Everybody's cracking wise with shit like "don't be such a cheap fuck and roll a bomber eh".

There was 7 of us and that joint made it around twice. By the time I got my second hit I was wondering if I should take it. No pussy on me so I hit it hard and swung it to my left.

It was f'n trippy as hell. Every one of us was wasted off our collective asses. I offered to twist up another one and got 6 resounding NOs!

I scrounged up the money for the first lb and he fronted me a 2nd with it. Actually they came in kilo bricks so it was 2.2 lbs. The sticks are pressed into a brick form but not smashed into a block like the dirt weed. Seems he'd been having a hard time moving it for the price.

Rather than try to bust up the brick dry I carefully split it apart in big chunks then steamed it over a pot of simmering water so it fell apart and you could take the sticks off intact rather than end up with a lot of shake.

Long story short I made tons of cash off that stuff and found a few seeds, like 4, out of all the lbs I handled over the next year or so.

Just don't get that same kind of buzz from anything I've smoked in decades. I'd trade my useless left nut for a few of those seeds but have found out that Chocolate Thai was the strain those old sticks were made from if you can find a land race of it.


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## OldMedUser (May 6, 2018)

Beachwalker said:


> Well that wouldn't be out first difference of opinion would it Mr.shrub! LOL I don't know whats happened to the weed these days I don't know if it's over bred or if governments did something to it (gmo?) but in my opinion its of no comparison to the weed in the mid-70s ( and I'm far from the only one who feels like that )
> 
> I've even wondered if the cannabis feminization process has hurt the weed ? I stopped smoking for the most part when I stop growing in about 95, when I got married. then 21 years later I came back and this is what I found, just my opinion and my observation
> 
> ...


Why the fug are you being such a jerk about this shit?

Just going by tested THC levels pot today is 3-5x stronger than even the best of the 70s.

Biggest problem is that most are so bastardized they have no character any more. It's all a bunch of mongrel mutts that have very little to offer that stands out from the rest of the bastard tribe.

It's the younger crowd mostly getting into dabbing like it's something new. I was dabbing killer honey oil back in '75. The hash we got was pretty killer too.

I'm an old fart now and getting into growing hi-CBD strains but keeping my paddle in the water for for decent THC strains too. Got some Critical Mass budding up critically at 15 days 12/12 now with the AK47 not far behind in size. The BlueBerry are just starting to bud up like the OG#18. Not impressed but the toke will tell.

They don't call it Critical Mass for nothing. 15 days in with about 48 to go if it's 9 weeks 'til done. Gonna need derricks! 

 

I mostly just do little hits in my pipe for smoking now. 90% of my pot consumption is cocobudder. So much better for what ails me. 
Pot is supposed to make people chill. Maybe it's not for you.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (May 6, 2018)

i dunno, i'm not saying anyone is wrong. if you liked the old school stuff, then you liked it. more power to you trying to find it again. i'm sure it's out there somewhere, but you probably aint gonna find it for sale at a seedbank, you're going to have to go callin in the hollers to find anything like that. used to be an old man named Burl we all bought from, his sons pretty much lived copperhead road, all three went to viet nam, and came back with sacks of seed, so for a long time we were getting vietnamese landrace weed in east tenn. i do miss that.....wish i knew where they used to grow, i'd like to go looking for wild plants in the area. there are a few strains from back then i'd like to have again, but for the most part, my early weed smoking career was crappy brick weed, and bad homegrown (not mine) and i wouldn't take any of those seeds if you paid me


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## Beachwalker (May 6, 2018)

.. okay maybe Rogers right , maybe 6 times is an exaggeration, but I did used to walk 10 miles to school, uphill both ways!


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## Roger A. Shrubber (May 6, 2018)

in the snow, with wolves biting you in the ass


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## Z3r0Z3r0 (May 7, 2018)

Beachwalker said:


> Well that wouldn't be out first difference of opinion would it Mr.shrub! LOL I don't know whats happened to the weed these days I don't know if it's over bred or if governments did something to it (gmo?) but in my opinion its of no comparison to the weed in the mid-70s ( and I'm far from the only one who feels like that )
> 
> I've even wondered if the cannabis feminization process has hurt the weed ? I stopped smoking for the most part when I stop growing in about 95, when I got married. then 21 years later I came back and this is what I found, just my opinion and my observation
> 
> ...


My father would share your view, hes into all old school 70s stuff and eastern hash. He had some respect for a blunt roach of the real chronic strain tht marked the 90s I gave him which somehow he managed to roll a whole J with it mixing with tobacco and it still ooozed with resin. But he will tell me all these new tweenies strains are comercial shit for children like nike and coca cola lol


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## Wilksey (May 7, 2018)

OldMedUser said:


> Just going by tested THC levels pot today is 3-5x stronger than even the best of the 70s.


Nah, that's propaganda dude.

Testing standards and sampling standards have been all over the place, if not outright absent. Even today you'll get 3 different results from 3 different labs using the same sample.


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## Z3r0Z3r0 (May 7, 2018)

Wilksey said:


> Nah, that's propaganda dude.
> 
> Testing standards and sampling standards have been all over the place, if not outright absent. Even today you'll get 3 different results from 3 different labs using the same sample.


Yes but your also exagerating, dont get me wrong Id luv some maui wouwi or thai stick, but they do indeed all have lower THC levels all the original 70s strains. Theese new frankewhore hybrids are stronger in THC terms, now does this necesarily mean they are better? Of course not, cannabis has a synergistic effect of hundreds of cannabinoids and no plant or hybrid will give same high.

As far as lab tests of course they are not consistent due to batches. Why most strains list avg max THC percentage,anything lower and it wasnt grown right

But as stated now full spectrum analisis matters and THC is not the only ingredient labeled in percentage, I look at CBD, CBN, CBG, CBDV. All of them together give you what you like, not THC alone and not CBD alone, cause truth is you take THC ALONE with NO other cannabinoides, you might lose your intrest in smoking pot....


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## Wilksey (May 7, 2018)

Z3r0Z3r0 said:


> They do indeed all have lower THC levels all the original 70s strains.


Show me the sample collection methods, the test standards, and multiple results demonstrating the superiority of modern seedless flower compared to old school seedless flower and I'll agree. Until then, it's all government propaganda and stoner lore.

Hell, if anything, I bet the THC totals have DROPPED over the years compared to the original land race strains due to all the shitty pollen-chucking "breeding" programs that have popped up over the past 3 decades. Talk to any legit breeder of anything, and they'll tell you it takes great genetics to produce great genetics, and I guarantee 90% of all hybrids today were created using a combination of great, mediocre, and even marginal genetics at best, and that's not going to help spike THC levels across the board, but drop them instead.


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## Z3r0Z3r0 (May 7, 2018)

Wilksey said:


> Show me the sample collection methods, the test standards, and multiple results demonstrating the superiority of modern seedless flower compared to old school seedless flower and I'll agree. Until then, it's all government propaganda and stoner lore.
> 
> Hell, if anything, I bet the THC totals have DROPPED over the years compared to the original land race strains due to all the shitty pollen-chucking "breeding" programs that have popped up over the past 3 decades. Talk to any legit breeder of anything, and they'll tell you it takes great genetics to produce great genetics, and I guarantee 90% of all hybrids today were created using a combination of great, mediocre, and even marginal genetics at best, and that's not going to help spike THC levels across the board, but drop them instead.





Wilksey said:


> Show me the sample collection methods, the test standards, and multiple results demonstrating the superiority of modern seedless flower compared to old school seedless flower and I'll agree. Until then, it's all government propaganda and stoner lore.
> 
> Hell, if anything, I bet the THC totals have DROPPED over the years compared to the original land race strains due to all the shitty pollen-chucking "breeding" programs that have popped up over the past 3 decades. Talk to any legit breeder of anything, and they'll tell you it takes great genetics to produce great genetics, and I guarantee 90% of all hybrids today were created using a combination of great, mediocre, and even marginal genetics at best, and that's not going to help spike THC levels across the board, but drop them instead.



You are correct to an extent, you need to look at strain to see what the parents were


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## OldMedUser (May 8, 2018)

Wilksey said:


> Show me the sample collection methods, the test standards, and multiple results demonstrating the superiority of modern seedless flower compared to old school seedless flower and I'll agree. Until then, it's all government propaganda and stoner lore.
> 
> Hell, if anything, I bet the THC totals have DROPPED over the years compared to the original land race strains due to all the shitty pollen-chucking "breeding" programs that have popped up over the past 3 decades. Talk to any legit breeder of anything, and they'll tell you it takes great genetics to produce great genetics, and I guarantee 90% of all hybrids today were created using a combination of great, mediocre, and even marginal genetics at best, and that's not going to help spike THC levels across the board, but drop them instead.


Testing methods have been accurate for decades and using selective breeding THC levels are a lot higher than back in the day.

A lot of exaggeration by the authorities has gone on in recent years blowing the numbers way up to scare people but it's well documented that with all the focus on breeding higher and higher THC levels they are way higher.

Now the focus is gradually moving into blends of cannabinoids that work better not just for the high but for medicinal use. 100 years of repression has prevented proper study of cannabis but that is changing fast.

Any decent lab can accurately measure the amounts of everything in a sample of pot and if the same samples are distributed between different labs the results should all be the same or very close if the same methodology is used in each.


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## Wilksey (May 8, 2018)

OldMedUser said:


> Testing methods have been accurate for decades and using selective breeding THC levels are a lot higher than back in the day.


No, they haven't, and they still aren't today. Why? Because there's no agreed upon standard for sample collection OR testing. Period. If you don't have uniform collection and testing standards, then your testing won't be repeatable, reliable, and your results won't have any validity.

Check out this High Times vid: 




They tried to use a scientific approach, but failed miserably because the lab tests show different results for the same samples, which means their "testing" was pretty much worthless for anything conclusive, and only represented trends, at best.



OldMedUser said:


> A lot of exaggeration by the authorities has gone on in recent years blowing the numbers way up to scare people


Agree. Ignorance has a lot to do with it as well. That and marketing on behalf of unscrupulous growers trying to sell their shit as some kind of "special" fire weed.




OldMedUser said:


> but it's well documented that with all the focus on breeding higher and higher THC levels they are way higher.


First, I don't agree that cannabis breeding has been properly "documented" at all, let alone "well documented". I would argue that the overwhelming majority of indoor cannabis strains were selected and "bred" [Read: pollen chucked] for characteristics other than thc content. Things like growth rate, flowering time, structure of the plant, structure of the flowers, size and weight of flowers, total yield, aroma and flavor profiles, and over all ease of growing are all higher priorities than thc content alone.

We still don't even really know what the hell "high thc" actually means, or does, because we're still not sure how thc interacts with the other cannabinoids to produce the psychoactive effects we feel when we ingest them. It might be that we should be looking for higher cbd ratios, rather than thc, because maybe they interact with thc to produce a better and more balanced high....we just don't know, though, thanks to criminalization.


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## OldMedUser (May 8, 2018)

The actual testing done at the lab should be consistent if the sampling method is also consistent.

As a breeder it would be my best interest if I only sampled the very best colas and sent that for a sample. They are going to have the highest levels of cannabinoids and show that on the lab analysis sheet that I can wave around to show the great results.

In the case of all the buds and sugar leaves being used to make edibles it should all be blended together to make a homogeneous blend and the sample taken from a few random spots, remixed then a portion of that submitted for sampling. 

I spent 3 years in tech school in my 30s getting a diploma in chemistry and worked in a couple labs after that before saying to hell with little more than minimum wage and switching to driving truck in the oil patch.


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## hawse (May 31, 2018)

Hey just my two cents (and first few post here actually), but I was just talking to my buddy about this the other day. There is one strain I have, and just from looking at it under the loupe I can see a decent amount of trichomes. It has a lemon/citrus skunk flavor an extremely strong mind and body affect. Then I have some OG Kush, it's covered in trichomes, way more than the other, has a frosty look to it with the naked eye. But, only a nice euphoria and head high, decent body buzz. But the first stuff, the unknown lemony stuff, it knocks my socks off. Way better for pain, less bad side effects, and generally a feeling of this stuff kicking your ass lol. So, does just having more thrichomes mean it's stronger? Is that the only visual way to tell. Or is it that this less strong looking stuff is actually stronger? I'd love to have it tested some day. OR also it could be that one is more indica/sativa dominant, OR it could be terpenes? lol I suppose the affects and "strength" of cannabis are very subjective...


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## DollarBlazeClub.com (Jul 18, 2018)

Brick Top, Thank you for the charts and info. There is so much more we need to know about the Cannabinoids, terpenoids and flavonoids. as humans we are built with cannabinoid receptors, Im learning. Im curious, as a diagnosed by biopsy, sarcoidosis and RA patient who refused pharmaceuticals @ diagnosis 24 years ago. Im supposed to be in a wheelchair, if not dead! But, I believe cannabis is saving me. Im active, i have flares, and I use different forms of CBD tinctures, raw cannabis, and salves. Along with RSO , vaping oils and I smoke cannabis, as well. Of course all against my rhuematologist and pulmonalogist. Whole foods, and cannabis. Im in a medical state in Arizona, and I'm frightened of recreational undermining all we need to know. I'm very ignorant, but i want to soak it up like a sponge. Your graphs and illustrations are helpful. Thank you, I agree with Bob Harris, wingman status!!


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## ukcannabisonline (Feb 18, 2019)

I Just read this thread out of curiosity as its still going after 8 years and i'm really glad I did as it was a fantastic post, That information is the basis of the research done that allowed the government to very cleverly make there definition between CBD and THC and cash in on it, I don't think a lot of us would have believed that CBD would thankfully despite it being influenced by money not compassion be available as a valid lawful medicine!

It does genuinely work but there is obviously a large corporate or high street degree of this stuff available now as it was designed to by the government! I need to ask Admin if can plug or i need to pm a CBD site that's perfectly legal its definitely just CBD i'm sorry that was recommended to me as a group of dedicated individuals not a massive corporation, and there products have helped hugely with my back issue having had a kite surfing accident a few years ago, And I need to ask them as well!

Anyways top marks to Brick Top for this initial reply


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## reynescabruner (Apr 10, 2019)

Yes, because each of us have different tolerance and either way has different ways to relax. There are also strains that's relaxing for you but not for mine. So I go for product reviews first before trying a new one and then try myself if it does really has same effect.


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## outerstar (Dec 9, 2019)

I'v grown G19 (G13) before and marveled at the cellular development of the trunk. And it really was a trunk. But what I realized is that through breeding growers sought to improve desirable qualities in their cannabis, like THC, plant growth etc. 

Evolution however creates unique and different types of plants that have there own type of high. Im no expert (and I dont keep pigs) but I think there is a homogenous element to creating high thc strain cannabis. There is "intensity" and "direction" of the high, modern growing seems to be focused on the "intensity" and not the "direction", to some point.


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## mordynyc (Feb 28, 2020)

1. Everyone has different tastes and reactions to the different chemicals in cigarettes AND Cannabis even though both have 1 target drug that gets you.
2. I'd rather squeeze a bit more grinded weed in my dynavap from a good yummy 20% strain than pay more or the same for a 25% I wont like as much at all for whatever reason to either buy as flower or waste the effort growing it if there is a consensus for example that it's just a strong couch locked high with nothing else offered.
Change my mind.


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## mordynyc (Feb 28, 2020)

reynescabruner said:


> Yes, because each of us have different tolerance and either way has different ways to relax. There are also strains that's relaxing for you but not for mine. So I go for product reviews first before trying a new one and then try myself if it does really has same effect.


Can't you just smoke less of the strong stuff? It comes out even cheaper since you can micro dose.
Low% thc or cbd weed is a waste of time IMO.


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## CTGrown203 (Apr 30, 2020)

Strongest strain I think I ever smoked was a 14% thc trainwreck grown by advanced grow labs,
Only half the thc of all these strains


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## mordynyc (Apr 30, 2020)

CTGrown203 said:


> Strongest strain I think I ever smoked was a 14% thc trainwreck grown by advanced grow labs,
> Only half the thc of all these strains


Do you measure it based in how high you get or how long you're high or both?


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## CTGrown203 (Apr 30, 2020)

I would say both, almost felt like a pharmaceutical high of uppers but not in a bad way


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## Weedmama (Feb 12, 2021)

this is great info, I was trying to like your post BrickTop but didn't know how. 
so much good info for when trying to find a strain, I also find it very dependent how it was grown - organic vs nonorganic and the terpenes present in the strain can make a big difference in the effects felt.


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## Monster762 (Feb 16, 2021)

mattthematic said:


> Hello All ,
> 
> New user here . Not so new grower . No old timer either .
> 
> ...


Its the terpene profile. Terps have effects. Thc% isnt everything. Each terpene has effects example anything high in linalool will put you to sleep


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## bigunyun (May 30, 2021)

I just brought some samples I grew from some of my seeds into the lab and had them tested and it was interesting. This lab MCR in MA publishes a lot of their results on THC and terps. THC % isn't everything of course cuz you could just smoke more, theoretically to get the same THC dose as long as you like the smoke. Terps are probably important, but even weed with low terps can get you really buzzed. 
I used a nugsmasher to make some rosin from the Doctors Orders cuz i wanted to see how much the smasher extracted. I smashed 4.5 g of flower and got exactly 1.00 g rosin. The flower tested at 21.64% and the rosin at 89.13%, which means the nugsmasher effectively extracted over 91% of the THC, which i thought was impressive. 
The other thing I tried was some trash hash i made from old leaves and flower from the bottom of plants i wasn't going to process or smoke so I made some dry ice hash and tested it. That bubble hash tested out at 35% and that works well in the press, too. So I'm glad I tested this stuff, I learned a lot.


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## BodegaBud (Oct 10, 2021)

TotalAmnesia said:


> Watching you experts chat about this is a very humbling experiance. Where would a noob go to learn about this stuff (in a noobs language)???



Almost everybody on here is an expert. An expert as well as an asshole for most


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## BrassNwood (Jan 3, 2023)

mattthematic said:


> Hello All ,
> 
> New user here . Not so new grower . No old timer either .
> 
> ...


It is all in the Terpenes because it damn sure isn't in the Trichomes. I shake my entire grow with dry ice for the Kief. Removed from the plant material the Trichomes all smell exactly the same and the stone is exactly the same. Years ago I kept it all separated but I soon realized it wasn't making a lick of difference. All the Jars of Kief smell and smoke exactly the same be it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid.

I make the vast majority of it into edible oil Capsules and again they are all identical in effects regardless of the base strain. Once the Delta-9-THC is converted by your body into the far stronger and longer lasting 11-Hydroxy-THC it outstrips the rest of the cannabinoids and pushes you into Psychedelic territory.

BNW


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## rasna (Yesterday at 4:02 PM)

BrassNwood said:


> It is all in the Terpenes because it damn sure isn't in the Trichomes. I shake my entire grow with dry ice for the Kief. Removed from the plant material the Trichomes all smell exactly the same and the stone is exactly the same. Years ago I kept it all separated but I soon realized it wasn't making a lick of difference. All the Jars of Kief smell and smoke exactly the same be it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid.
> View attachment 5244565
> I make the vast majority of it into edible oil Capsules and again they are all identical in effects regardless of the base strain. Once the Delta-9-THC is converted by your body into the far stronger and longer lasting 11-Hydroxy-THC it outstrips the rest of the cannabinoids and pushes you into Psychedelic territory.
> 
> BNW


???

Terpenes are produced in trichomes... and trichomes contain terpenes.


maybe you are growing genetically very similar hybrids regardless of the name of the strain and what the breeder says...


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