# UVB Lighting - Replicate UV Index of 12?



## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

We all know THC content increases in response to damaging UVB light. (Weed sunscreen) 

Now there are three types of UVB light available.
1. Reptile Lights
2. Tanning Bulbs
3. Phototherapy Bulbs

Tanning bulbs are my personal choice (Wolff 9.9 UVB), however I believe more detailed specs will be available for the phototherapy bulbs.

So we alll should be adding in UVB if our goal is THC, the question is how much? In my case I want enough to replicate a UV index of 12. I choose this because it is about the strongest natural occuring and survivable UVB level. Then I can adjust exposure timing to optimize, but know I'm not blasting them with something double or tripple that of anything naturally occuring and potentially lethal or significantly damaging to the plants.

I for the life of me can't find an equation to calculate this, any professional lighting scientists/engineers or just another ametuer genious out there that can help?


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

I run ATI True Actinic T5's and they are the bomb !!!!

A dear friend used Arcadias, they also work quite well


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## qwizoking (Dec 13, 2014)

Hmmmmm
Well I feel I should say THC won't increase with respect to other cannabinoids ....
And uv is but a small role. You can definitely use it in conjunction with like high pk levels and other things though...

so inside the trichomes
Geranyl pyrophosphate and a precursor to olivetolic acid react, a c12 (for pentyl) c10(for propyl)polyketide, catalyzed by an enzyme to produce cannabigerolic acid,. The production of Thc (and propyl)thcv cbd cbdv and cbc cbcv are controlled by 3 different enzymes Thca synthase being the enzyme converting cbga to thc through an oxidative cyclization of the geranyl group on cbga(of course this is a bit simplified for y'all) geranyl diphosphate + olivetolate =cannabigerolate + diphosphate.. cannabigerolate + O(2) = Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinolate + H(2)O(2)

uvr8 is a photoreceptor activated by uv-b and in response will increase production of a precursor to olivetolic acid. an increase in resin content relies on much more than one portion of a precursor


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## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

Those are UVA from what I am finding, not UVB, great for the plant to gather energy, but worthless for stressing it to produce more THC.


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> Hmmmmm
> Well I feel I should say THC won't increase with respect to other cannabinoids ....
> And uv is but a small role. You can definitely use it in conjunction with like high pk levels and other things though...
> 
> ...


you must not of seen my ICMAG link ?


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## qwizoking (Dec 13, 2014)

No
Why


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## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

This thread is not a debate about if UVB will or will not increase THC production. This is a thread about quantifying UVB light and simulating the levels found in nature. With that said UVB will not help if you have other bottelnecks, however if you have your nutrients, lights, and other factors near perfect but are lacking UVB, you will see, taste, and feel the difference once you add it. I'm looking to get it right as my first tests were using only a single 10% reptile bulb, and the benifits were obvious.


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## qwizoking (Dec 13, 2014)

I didn't mean to debate..
I just wanted to point out that resin as a total is increased not just THC..how you made it seem in your post


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> This thread is not a debate about if UVB will or will not increase THC production. This is a thread about quantifying UVB light and simulating the levels found in nature. With that said UVB will not help if you have other bottelnecks, however if you have your nutrients, lights, and other factors near perfect but are lacking UVB, you will see, taste, and feel the difference once you add it. I'm looking to get it right as my first tests were using only a single 10% reptile bulb, and the benifits were obvious.


Been there, why I'm postin here

read this 
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=295624


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## mudballs (Dec 13, 2014)

you can buy a reptile uv 7.0 meter
then you can do some math regarding your lights
http://www.tantoday.com/forums/salon-discussion/40591-how-uv-index-works.html
http://www.tantoday.com/forums/uv-meters/36362-europe-allowable-numbers.html
i'm not a pro anything, just a bored hippy who likes to get involved. those links might give you a starting point. if i wanted to get into uv lamps thats what i would do. buy a meter and a 100w reptile lamp and take a reading


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

mudballs said:


> you can buy a reptile uv 7.0 meter
> then you can do some math regarding your lights
> http://www.tantoday.com/forums/salon-discussion/40591-how-uv-index-works.html
> http://www.tantoday.com/forums/uv-meters/36362-europe-allowable-numbers.html
> i'm not a pro anything, just a bored hippy who likes to get involved. those links might give you a starting point. if i wanted to get into uv lamps thats what i would do. buy a meter and a 100w reptile lamp and take a reading


The reptile lamps suck balls !!! did the test I only recommend 2 bulbs read the link I shared all of it


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## mudballs (Dec 13, 2014)

RM3 said:


> The reptile lamps suck balls !!! did the test I only recommend 2 bulbs read the link I shared all of it


i know but it's like 10 pages and i couldn't find a way to search for the specific uv posts...so open googled.no offense. i won't pass up the years of exp. i'll read it. give us a xmas present early and post a summation here?


p.s.brown bushin...lol


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

mudballs said:


> i know but it's like 10 pages and i couldn't find a way to search for the specific uv posts...so open googled.no offense. i won't pass up the years of exp. i'll read it. give us a xmas present early and post a summation here?
> 
> 
> p.s.brown bushin...lol


Brown Bushin is the bomb


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

a bit ,,,,,

Been a long road and it all happened by accident with the help of my friend Max (Illumination). At the time we were both using CMH bulbs, they were said to have UV in the spectrum. 

Max started looking at UV supplementation and bought a meter that measured UV and then started testing bulbs (all this documented at my site) Turns out that yes our CMH bulbs had a tad of UV but it was not enough to be really useful. He also discovered that the reptile bulbs had to be real close to emit anything effective. When Phillips discontinued the CMH bulbs it was this info that helped me decide to go T5 in flower (glad I did). The 2 bulbs that tested good for our needs and by that, Max was all about duplicating the UV that was available near the equator, were the Arcadia and the ATI True Actinic. It was me that later added the ATI Coral Plus (based on deep blue growing more trics, it does !!!) which dip into the UV range so the 2 ATI bulbs connect and widen the spectrum. Bottom line is you must supplement UV to get the early amber and based on Max's test I only recommend the 2 bulbs I just mentioned, note the Arcadias cost more




and Max used em, so have seen the results using these bulbs !


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## mudballs (Dec 13, 2014)

awesome...but we're still looking for some quantifying to reach his 12.0 uvi...and i guess duration too.so how many watts per sq.m. to reach a 12.0 uvi


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## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

Tanning Bulbs

This is what I was planning on using, may have to get a meter. The math comes up with 300mw/m2 of UVB+UVA = UV index of 12. That is an absurdly low number. Confuses me because that would put the UV index of a tanning bed (24 or more of 100w 9.9% UVB) at something astronomical, especially since they are either touching you or a few inches from you.

According to wiki, 25mw/m2 = uv index of 1 and it's a linear scale.


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## mudballs (Dec 13, 2014)

well you're only allowed in them for 20mins max on avg. so yeah this is a matter of a little bit goes a long way


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

My bulbs


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## mudballs (Dec 13, 2014)

so how many do you have of the ATI? wattage and length...and that should give us a ballpark 18/6 veg UVI. you might want a 12.0 nomo but he's done the work for us. you really want something like a 3uvi over the entire photoperiod (total guess example).


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## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

RM3, how did you measure the output? How many watts of the ATI True Actinic per square foot or meter are you running?


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

mudballs said:


> so how many do you have of the ATI? wattage and length...and that should give us a ballpark 18/6 veg UVI. you might want a 12.0 nomo but he's done the work for us. you really want something like a 3uvi over the entire photoperiod (total guess example).


There are 3 ATI True Actinic and 5 ATI Coral Plus bulbs there, I also run em in veg

http://www.atinorthamerica.com/bulbs.php


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> RM3, how did you measure the output? How many watts of the ATI True Actinic per square foot or meter are you running?


I didn't it was Max that had a meter, The bulbs are 54 watt HO's so 162 watts


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## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

RM3 said:


> I didn't it was Max that had a meter, The bulbs are 54 watt HO's so 162 watts


I feel like I'm asking a personal question now, but trying to get to watts/area, so how many sqft is your grow room?


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> I feel like I'm asking a personal question now, but trying to get to watts/area, so how many sqft is your grow room?


Tis 5 X 5 so 25 sq ft


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## mudballs (Dec 13, 2014)

dammit that's another $240.00 to spend that i don't have...thanks old timer for putting in the leg work all these years.


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## THE KONASSURE (Dec 13, 2014)

do 600w mh`s not give off any useable uv ?


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

Not


THE KONASSURE said:


> do 600w mh`s not give off any useable uv ?


 that I have ever heard, but they have deep blue, which is also a very good thing


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

mudballs said:


> dammit that's another $240.00 to spend that i don't have...thanks old timer for putting in the leg work all these years.


You're welcome


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## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

RM3 said:


> Tis 5 X 5 so 25 sq ft


Thx, puts me at just over 200w. Honestly I got to page 6 before I gave up on that thread, especially since I couldn't see the pics. I already have the supplies to try 200w of the tanning bulbs. I may even get a $20 meter if I find anyone saying it's accurate. Were you running them the whole cycle or a few hours mid-day?


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## RM3 (Dec 13, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> Thx, puts me at just over 200w. Honestly I got to page 6 before I gave up on that thread, especially since I couldn't see the pics. I already have the supplies to try 200w of the tanning bulbs. I may even get a $20 meter if I find anyone saying it's accurate. Were you running them the whole cycle or a few hours mid-day?


1st, the pics are worth signing up for 
2nd, the meter Max had was $1600 
3rd, yeppers they are on the whole light cycle


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## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

I'm a cheap bastard, so I really want to see if the tanning bulbs will work well. $40 for a ballast, $60 for 4 100w bulbs (2 spares), $5 4 bi-pole sockets, mounted to a 1x4 ($2) coated in mylar (leftovers.)

4 more bi-pole sockets and 4 of the ATI True Actinic will convert me as the same ballast will power either.

I could use some UVB by the end of winter anyway, so if all else fails I have a use.


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## THE KONASSURE (Dec 13, 2014)

RM3 said:


> Not
> 
> that I have ever heard, but they have deep blue, which is also a very good thing


I added a 600w mh the other week as I wanted to get a bit more stretch my blue/red led set up means that I don`t get much stretch so I have to veg a lot more if I want a tall plant 

I know normally people use them to reduce stretch but a 600w mh puts out a lot more far reds then my led set up does 

I just figured I`d get some blue and uv for free 

But I think the glass of the cool tube its in would soak up a lot of the uv ?

Someone that made induction light tubes once told me to get more uv you have to get a smaller light not a bigger one 

as when the tubes get fatter and longer they have to use thicker glass to make the tube out of 

And the thicker glass cuts the amount of uv that can escape the tube 


Maybe that`s why the flora`s give more uv ? because their still made of a thin glass its still a thin tube its just longer ?

Induction lights should still be able to put out good levels of uv depending on the colour and size of the tube ?


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## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

Any modern bulb not made to intentionally output UVB light will have a coating on the glass that blocks UVB, UVC and likely UVA. Most UV lights still have a coating to block UVC as we don't want to kill ourselves and the plants. If you want UV from a conventional bulb, find old MH bulbs in someone's barn or something, you need old ones without the coating. We didn't know why at the time, but that is why MH used to beat HPS in potency. What tans us is what you are looking for, and why I picked tanning bulbs before I even started this thread.

Putting out UVB or UVC light on a bulb not intended for that use would get a manufacturer sued and out of business. Cancer, Blindness, Destruction of plastics, ... Back in the day they didn't know better and that resulted in better weed, lol.


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## THE KONASSURE (Dec 13, 2014)

suddenly them really old sunmaster mh bulbs I saw on ebay just became worth the buy lol







or maybe these are the cfls to use for uv blasting buds ?


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## nomofatum (Dec 13, 2014)

RM3, one more question, have you ever/could you get a sunburn in your grow room?


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## RM3 (Dec 14, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> RM3, one more question, have you ever/could you get a sunburn in your grow room?


Have I ? No, Could I ? Yes, You can feel it on your skin heat just like the sun , I also don't look at em much


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## nomofatum (Dec 14, 2014)

RM3 said:


> Have I ? No, Could I ? Yes, You can feel it on your skin heat just like the sun , I also don't look at em much


I may double the UVB you have as an experiment. I want to find the point where I kill/almost kill the plants with the UVB lights on full cycle. I was expecting a continuous UV index of 12 to be enough for that on most strains, but based on my math you are way over 12 and your plants are happy. I want to find the perfect level, so I think I'm getting another ballast and will run up to 400w of tanning bulbs at a time. I want to be able to adjust and play with the results. With 400w I should surely be able to OD the plants on UVB, and I can also run as low as 200w on 15 of every hour and everything in between. I think that will allow me to dose them at any reasonable level and compare.


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## mudballs (Dec 14, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> Thx, puts me at just over 200w. Honestly I got to page 6 before I gave up on that thread, especially since I couldn't see the pics. I already have the supplies to try 200w of the tanning bulbs. I may even get a $20 meter if I find anyone saying it's accurate. Were you running them the whole cycle or a few hours mid-day?


so is my math right at 6.5w/sq. ft. of uvb? i'm guessing your space is 30-35sq. ft.?

edit:nomo i think i know why you got astronomical uvi numbers. they are actually rated on relative intensity so we are looking for the irradiance numbers...something like .04mW (microwatts) and i can't find the ATI numbers...that's marketing for ya. if we can find those ratings you could accurately calculate your uvi proper.


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## RM3 (Dec 14, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> I may double the UVB you have as an experiment. I want to find the point where I kill/almost kill the plants with the UVB lights on full cycle. I was expecting a continuous UV index of 12 to be enough for that on most strains, but based on my math you are way over 12 and your plants are happy. I want to find the perfect level, so I think I'm getting another ballast and will run up to 400w of tanning bulbs at a time. I want to be able to adjust and play with the results. With 400w I should surely be able to OD the plants on UVB, and I can also run as low as 200w on 15 of every hour and everything in between. I think that will allow me to dose them at any reasonable level and compare.


I like experiments


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## RM3 (Dec 16, 2014)

I don't pay attention to wattage per sq ft or grams per watt or any of the stuff folks seem to fiddle with, I just grow for me. The ATI bulbs are 54 watt HO's 4 foot there are 3 True Actinics and 5 Coral Plus's, 6 GE 4100K's and 4 Plantmax 6500K

I can tell you they work !!!! check out the trics and smoke reports in this thread
https://www.rollitup.org/t/are-they-done-yet-what-does-done-look-like.853978/

sorry it looks I just answered a ?from the 1st page ,,,,, again


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## mudballs (Dec 16, 2014)

RM3 said:


> I don't pay attention to wattage per sq ft or grams per watt or any of the stuff folks seem to fiddle with, I just grow for me. The ATI bulbs are 54 watt HO's 4 foot there are 3 True Actinics and 5 Coral Plus's, 6 GE 4100K's and 4 Plantmax 6500K
> 
> I can tell you they work !!!! check out the trics and smoke reports in this thread
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/are-they-done-yet-what-does-done-look-like.853978/
> ...


knowledge is power they say. now we kind of have answer to tell other people interested in uv light supplementation based on your experimentation. 6.5w/sq.ft. of specialized lamps should do the trick. i still want to find the actual uvi and here is the best i got.
_Each point on the Index scale is equivalent to 25 milliWatts/square metre of UV radiation_
W/m² Eeff x 40 = UV Index
The T5 Arcadia D3 is rated at 109mW/cm2 at a distance of 40cm (about 16inches)
^^from an ICMAG.com UVB forum post
so
0.0109/m²x40=.436 UV Index
That's what (I think) we are working with. I can't find the actual numbers of the Actinics or Corals. If you have 8 'similar' UV bulbs then you have a UV Index of 3.488 at 16inches away.
YES! I have been working on that for like days! And my ballpark figure was close when I guesstimated 3 UVI.
to get a UVI of 12 you need 27 bulbs ;p
I wouldn't recommend it and if you monkey with these lights wear special eye protection or put them on a separate switch to turn them off while you are working with the plants.

edit:nomo ur bulbs may be actual tanning bulbs, perhaps much stronger than riddles. get the real irridiance ratings before you get more lamps.


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## nomofatum (Dec 16, 2014)

mudballs said:


> knowledge is power they say. now we kind of have answer to tell other people interested in uv light supplementation based on your experimentation. 6.5w/sq.ft. of specialized lamps should do the trick. i still want to find the actual uvi and here is the best i got.
> _Each point on the Index scale is equivalent to 25 milliWatts/square metre of UV radiation_
> W/m² Eeff x 40 = UV Index
> The T5 Arcadia D3 is rated at 109mW/cm2 at a distance of 40cm (about 16inches)
> ...



Where did you get the 109mw/cm2? (link?) Also you have some math mistakes. Didn't convert from cm2 to m2 and it's 250mw, not 25. That I believe would put you off by a factor of 100, so he has a UV index of 43.6 lol.


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## mudballs (Dec 16, 2014)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=260046&page=6


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## nomofatum (Dec 16, 2014)

mudballs said:


> https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=260046&page=6


109uw/cm2 is what I am seeing there.

What is uw?


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## nomofatum (Dec 16, 2014)

Found it: 1 millionth of a watt.

That puts one bulb at a UV index of 4.6 at 40cm. Redid the math myself.


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## mudballs (Dec 16, 2014)

fine you email the australian meteorological dept. and tell them they have an error on their webpage.
http://www.bom.gov.au/uv/about_uv_index.shtml

and do your own damn homework next time


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## nomofatum (Dec 16, 2014)

mudballs said:


> fine you email the australian meteorological dept. and tell them they have an error on their webpage.
> http://www.bom.gov.au/uv/about_uv_index.shtml
> 
> and do your own damn homework next time


I'm wrong, misread, 25 is right, 250 is normal midday summer level aka uv index of 10. Sorry mudballs, just trying to get the math right.

So I screwed up that number again, so we are back up to 43.6 at 40cm, damn, someone please check my math.


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## nomofatum (Dec 16, 2014)

Intensity should drop at the same rate as the surface area of the imaginary cylinder grows compared to the 40cm baseline.
A = 2 π r h + 2 π r 2

Then we have to look at RM3's reflectors, if white, the back half of the UVB light goes poof, if aluminum, we can expect 50% of the back light to make it to the plants. 

RM3, I think we can calculate your actual UVB now thanks to mudballs.


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## RM3 (Dec 16, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> Intensity should drop at the same rate as the surface area of the imaginary cylinder grows compared to the 40cm baseline.
> A = 2 π r h + 2 π r 2
> 
> Then we have to look at RM3's reflectors, if white, the back half of the UVB light goes poof, if aluminum, we can expect 50% of the back light to make it to the plants.
> ...


They are Aluminum


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## nomofatum (Dec 16, 2014)

RM3 said:


> They are Aluminum


How far from bulb to just below the colas? I will use that distance to calculate your UV index.


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 16, 2014)

RM3 said:


> My bulbs
> 
> View attachment 3312597View attachment 3312598 View attachment 3312599


that is a grow ive truly never seen before, it looks great..arent the lights to far above?? i thought they had to be a few inches away even w/ that many bulbs...wow


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## RM3 (Dec 17, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> How far from bulb to just below the colas? I will use that distance to calculate your UV index.


18 to 24 inches


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## RM3 (Dec 17, 2014)

TheChemist77 said:


> that is a grow ive truly never seen before, it looks great..arent the lights to far above?? i thought they had to be a few inches away even w/ that many bulbs...wow


Thank You, I do things very differently than most 
I try and explain it in my Light??? thread


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## racerboy71 (Dec 17, 2014)

RM3 said:


> There are 3 ATI True Actinic and 5 ATI Coral Plus bulbs there, I also run em in veg
> 
> http://www.atinorthamerica.com/bulbs.php


 what light system are you using those bulbs in rm?


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## RM3 (Dec 17, 2014)

racerboy71 said:


> what light system are you using those bulbs in rm?


My Tanning Booth uses Oracle High Bays, nothing like the crap you see in hydro/grow stores. Very High Quality and uses Phillips Ballast. The 6 bulb fixtures are $130 each (I have 3 of em) they are rated at 336 watts (includes ballast)


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## racerboy71 (Dec 17, 2014)

RM3 said:


> My Tanning Booth uses Oracle High Bays, nothing like the crap you see in hydro/grow stores. Very High Quality and uses Phillips Ballast. The 6 bulb fixtures are $130 each (I have 3 of em) they are rated at 336 watts (includes ballast)


 damn, i don't have four foot of length in my grow.. i'd love to try something like those though..


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## racerboy71 (Dec 17, 2014)

hey rm3, i've been looking for a good hour plus for 2 foot high bay, high quality fixtures, and i stumbled upon this one from phillips...
http://www.electricalmarketplace.com/4-lamp-t5-ho-fluorescent-high-bay.html
what's your opinion on this unit good sir?


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## RM3 (Dec 17, 2014)

racerboy71 said:


> hey rm3, i've been looking for a good hour plus for 2 foot high bay, high quality fixtures, and i stumbled upon this one from phillips...
> http://www.electricalmarketplace.com/4-lamp-t5-ho-fluorescent-high-bay.html
> what's your opinion on this unit good sir?


Looks good for a 2 footer


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## racerboy71 (Dec 17, 2014)

RM3 said:


> Looks good for a 2 footer




thank you thank you.. was thinking 2 of these chumpies would work nicely in my space..


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## skinnysmoke (Dec 17, 2014)

RM3 said:


> My Tanning Booth uses Oracle High Bays, nothing like the crap you see in hydro/grow stores. Very High Quality and uses Phillips Ballast. The 6 bulb fixtures are $130 each (I have 3 of em) they are rated at 336 watts (includes ballast)


Now I'm rethinking this fixture I posted in your Light??? thread http://www.ebay.com/itm/T5-Grow-Light-2ft-6Lamps-DL826S-Fluorescent-HO-Hydroponic-Bloom-Veg-DaisyChain-/221549706510?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item3395643d0e

I liked that it is small 2ft long less than 14in. wide with 6 fixtures, but now I'm worried about the ballast made by company called Ballastwise. I looked for reviews but cant find many  on whether to give a try or not. Company offers 1y warranty and has and 100% positive feedback. Gonna have to research more now.

Thanks for all the info and any feedback you could give about the ballast and company would be greatly appreciated

I think what @ racerboy71 has found may work for me, Thanks bro good find!!


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## RM3 (Dec 17, 2014)

skinnysmoke said:


> Now I'm rethinking this fixture I posted in your Light??? thread http://www.ebay.com/itm/T5-Grow-Light-2ft-6Lamps-DL826S-Fluorescent-HO-Hydroponic-Bloom-Veg-DaisyChain-/221549706510?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item3395643d0e
> 
> I liked that it is small 2ft long less than 14in. wide with 6 fixtures, but now I'm worried about the ballast made by company called Ballastwise. I looked for reviews but cant find many  on whether to give a try or not. Company offers 1y warranty and has and 100% positive feedback. Gonna have to research more now.
> 
> Thanks for all the info and any feedback you could give about the ballast and company would be greatly appreciated


Racer just posted a 2 foot fixture with Phillips ballast in the Light??? thread


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## skinnysmoke (Dec 17, 2014)

racerboy71 said:


> hey rm3, i've been looking for a good hour plus for 2 foot high bay, high quality fixtures, and i stumbled upon this one from phillips...
> http://www.electricalmarketplace.com/4-lamp-t5-ho-fluorescent-high-bay.html
> what's your opinion on this unit good sir?


I just called them website is incorrect they only have 4ft fixtures  lol!


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## racerboy71 (Dec 17, 2014)

skinnysmoke said:


> I just called them website is incorrect they only have 4ft fixtures  lol!


 damn, that sucks.. i'm wondering how a four footer would work if i were to use it vertically?


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## nomofatum (Dec 17, 2014)

WorkHorse ballasts are awesome and pretty cheap. You could always give the ballstwise a shot and replace the ballast with a Phillips or WorkHorse ballast if it fails or fails to please you.


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## RM3 (Dec 17, 2014)

racerboy71 said:


> damn, that sucks.. i'm wondering how a four footer would work if i were to use it vertically?


There are a few growers that I know of looking at doing vertical with T5's


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## skinnysmoke (Dec 17, 2014)

racerboy71 said:


> damn, that sucks.. i'm wondering how a four footer would work if i were to use it vertically?


 It would be very hard in my space good luck bro. I was happy, happy, happy for a second, then I downloaded their pdf and everything was 4ft. So I decided to call and only 2footers were led...lol


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## racerboy71 (Dec 17, 2014)

RM3 said:


> There are a few growers that I know of looking at doing vertical with T5's


 that's what's up..


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## racerboy71 (Dec 17, 2014)

skinnysmoke said:


> It would be very hard in my space good luck bro. I was happy, happy, happy for a second, then I downloaded their pdf and everything was 4ft. So I decided to call and only 2footers were led...lol


 yeah, i only have about 35 inches or so width, and about the same deep, but i have plenty of space height wise, probably about 6.5 feet or so..


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## skinnysmoke (Dec 17, 2014)

racerboy71 said:


> yeah, i only have about 35 inches or so width, and about the same deep, but i have plenty of space height wise, probably about 6.5 feet or so..


I will continue my search not gonna use till mid/late feb. so I still have time. I also may give the ballastwise product a go, keeping in mind what @nomofatum mentioned.


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## racerboy71 (Dec 17, 2014)

skinnysmoke said:


> I will continue my search not gonna use till mid/late feb. so I still have time. I also may give the ballastwise product a go, keeping in mind what @nomofatum mentioned.


 i just spent about a good 2 plus hours now googling 2 foot ho t5 high bay lighting fixtures, and the only one that i came across thus far was the phillips one i linked earlier, which turns out to only come in the four foot variety.. 
i'm not saying they don't make the two footers, just saying i didn't have any luck thus far finding any.. lmk if you run across a quality unit and i'll do the same..


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## skinnysmoke (Dec 17, 2014)

Like @RM3 mentioned all I've found were from ebay stores. The 1 I linked is from a liquidation seller and not a hydro store but still unknown equipment with no reputation good or bad.? I Think ATI makes their own I have to investigate more because at the moment my cab is smaller than yours and quality 2footer is what I would like with 6 bulbs. Until then I've been making cfls work for me during outdoor off seasons lol.


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## nomofatum (Dec 17, 2014)

skinnysmoke said:


> Like @RM3 mentioned all I've found were from ebay stores. The 1 I linked is from a liquidation seller and not a hydro store but still unknown equipment with no reputation good or bad.? I Think ATI makes their own I have to investigate more because at the moment my cab is smaller than yours and quality 2footer is what I would like with 6 bulbs. Until then I've been making cfls work for me during outdoor off seasons lol.


The ballast and the reflector are the only important parts in your fixture. If you can't find one with a nice ballast already in it, just find one with a nice reflector and the number of bulbs you want, put the replacement ballast and you can upgrade cheap crap to pro quality instantly.


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## skinnysmoke (Dec 17, 2014)

Trust that is still an option, as I have been able to find some 2 lamp 2footers with Philips advanced ballast that has a 5 yr warranty. I just like to mull over my options and research before I pull the trigger.



nomofatum said:


> The ballast and the reflector are the only important parts in your fixture. If you can't find one with a nice ballast already in it, just find one with a nice reflector and the number of bulbs you want, put the replacement ballast and you can upgrade cheap crap to pro quality instantly.


http://www.fluorogrow.com/index.php/sprout-2-2-lamp-t5ho.html


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## RM3 (Dec 17, 2014)

skinnysmoke said:


> Trust that is still an option, as I have been able to find some 2 lamp 2footers with Philips advanced ballast that has a 5 yr warranty. I just like to mull over my options and research before I pull the trigger.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fluorogrow.com/index.php/sprout-2-2-lamp-t5ho.html


no reflectors, I would not go there


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## skinnysmoke (Dec 17, 2014)

Good looking RM3.


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 17, 2014)

RM3 said:


> no reflectors, I would not go there


RM3, HOW MANY BULBS TOTAL ARE IN UR ROOM, are those 6 bulb fixtures? also u said its a 4x4 space wright? what is your average yield in that room and how many grams per watt r u getting?? i really like the looks of ur room, i cant get tanning fixtures but i can get 6 or8 bulb 4 ft t5 fixtures..i was thinking, 3 8 bulb fixtures, 1 above and 1 on the left and right side of a 4x4 flood n drain table..what do u think?? i figured id fill them w/ 2700k and 2 or 3 6500k via volt bulbs


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## RM3 (Dec 18, 2014)

TheChemist77 said:


> RM3, HOW MANY BULBS TOTAL ARE IN UR ROOM, are those 6 bulb fixtures? also u said its a 4x4 space wright? what is your average yield in that room and how many grams per watt r u getting?? i really like the looks of ur room, i cant get tanning fixtures but i can get 6 or8 bulb 4 ft t5 fixtures..i was thinking, 3 8 bulb fixtures, 1 above and 1 on the left and right side of a 4x4 flood n drain table..what do u think?? i figured id fill them w/ 2700k and 2 or 3 6500k via volt bulbs


18 bulbs in 3 6 bulb fixtures and 5 X 5, when I wrote my first book, I said ok, gonna show ya how to get a pound off 2 plants, which I did. But mostly I don't care about yields so I do a lot of grows where nothing gets weighed, my grows are mostly about breeding and most of my gear are one hit wonders, take a look and check the smoke reports on page 2,,,
https://www.rollitup.org/t/are-they-done-yet-what-does-done-look-like.853978/

You can grow with those bulbs but less red and more blue is better, I use a lot of different bulbs and grow very differently than what you find in most forums
https://www.rollitup.org/t/light.853779/


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 18, 2014)

RM3 said:


> 18 bulbs in 3 6 bulb fixtures and 5 X 5, when I wrote my first book, I said ok, gonna show ya how to get a pound off 2 plants, which I did. But mostly I don't care about yields so I do a lot of grows where nothing gets weighed, my grows are mostly about breeding and most of my gear are one hit wonders, take a look and check the smoke reports on page 2,,,
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/are-they-done-yet-what-does-done-look-like.853978/
> 
> You can grow with those bulbs but less red and more blue is better, I use a lot of different bulbs and grow very differently than what you find in most forums
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/light.853779/



that is fn beautiful, i didnt know u could yield like that w t5's im really impressed!! i seen ur durban poison, im running dutch passions durban now, not alot of crystals but smells great and not branchy at all, its like a 1ft tall top..u really have me thinking about switching over to t5's, im running 2 600 watt hps over a 5x6 area now and electric bills are killing me, your yielding more than me in ur area under t5's... VERY IMPESSIVE!!
check out my grow if u want
https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-pic-journal.850252/


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 18, 2014)

RM3 said:


> 18 bulbs in 3 6 bulb fixtures and 5 X 5, when I wrote my first book, I said ok, gonna show ya how to get a pound off 2 plants, which I did. But mostly I don't care about yields so I do a lot of grows where nothing gets weighed, my grows are mostly about breeding and most of my gear are one hit wonders, take a look and check the smoke reports on page 2,,,
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/are-they-done-yet-what-does-done-look-like.853978/
> 
> You can grow with those bulbs but less red and more blue is better, I use a lot of different bulbs and grow very differently than what you find in most forums
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/light.853779/


can u run me a list of bulbs to get??


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## RM3 (Dec 19, 2014)

TheChemist77 said:


> can u run me a list of bulbs to get??


Checked out your grow, nice plants. 
bulbs I use are ,,,
GE 4100K
Plantmax 6500K
ATI True Actinic
ATI Coral Plus


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 19, 2014)

RM3 said:


> Checked out your grow, nice plants.
> bulbs I use are ,,,
> GE 4100K
> Plantmax 6500K
> ...


thanks, if i go with the t5 light thing, how many of each?? and should i throw in a couple via volt 2700k bulbs just to add some red spec for flower?? looking at your set up, im impressed and confused as i was always told its the red spectrum that increases bud size however ur buds are quite massive under very little if any red..is the red spectrum really not as neccessary as i was led to believe??


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 19, 2014)

RM3 said:


> Checked out your grow, nice plants.
> bulbs I use are ,,,
> GE 4100K
> Plantmax 6500K
> ...


Also i forgot to ask, how often do you replace the bulbs?? are they like mh/hps were u must replace them every 6 months? or can you get a year or more out of them?? sorry about all the questions but if im going to do it id like to do it wright... how far above your plants do u keep the fixtures?? or are they mounted to the ceiling and you raise and lower the plants??


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## Yodaweed (Dec 23, 2014)

@RM3 Don't you find that running all those T5 is hot and draws a lot of juice? Don't use T5s @TheChemist77 they are probably the worst source of lighting of the major 3 sources (HID/LED/CFL) they make a ton of heat and don't give you hardly any light intensity. For side lighting a t5 might be ok but even then you're just increasing heat for barely any return if anything, with my 600w hps on I can't even tell if my t5 is in the room with it cause the HID is so much more powerful. T5s are mostly only good for rooting clones.


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 23, 2014)

Yodaweed said:


> @RM3 Don't you find that running all those T5 is hot and draws a lot of juice? Don't use T5s @TheChemist77 they are probably the worst source of lighting of the major 3 sources (HID/LED/CFL) they make a ton of heat and don't give you hardly any light intensity. For side lighting a t5 might be ok but even then you're just increasing heat for barely any return if anything, with my 600w hps on I can't even tell if my t5 is in the room with it cause the HID is so much more powerful. T5s are mostly only good for rooting clones.


i have a bc nl bloombox and in it it has a 400 watt hid above and 2 2 ft t5's below and they work wonders.. ive also used t12 for under lighting in my bloom room, and found the t5's were 1000 times better..i know hids put out way more lumens, lumens=penetration so ur point is valid..i just found RM3'S grow to be really cool, and guy is pulling weight out of there,u gotta respect that. im not going to run all t5's, but i may add the ones i have next to my 2 600 watt hps to add some blue spectrum.. maybe in the future when i can aford the 6 or 8 bulb fixtures ill run a side by side compare as using the t5's is using alot less watts than 2 600's..hes running roughly 600 watts for a 5x5 area wile im running 1200 watts in a 6x5, so hes useing half the watts and only 1 foot less than me..ive always used mh for veg and hps for bloom, but i wonder what addinf some blue spec to my room will do?? i am also considering insted of running 2 hps using 1 mh and 1 hps or using both 600 hps and adding a 400 watt mh but that maybe using overkill for my area and my electric bills are already $700.00 a month.. but im running 3 400 watters, 2 600 watters and 2 250 watt cfl's pluss all my pumps and 2 2ft t5's and 4 4ft t5's,, i need to cut costs somewhere or in summer adding the A/C will kill me..


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## RM3 (Dec 23, 2014)

Yodaweed said:


> @RM3 Don't you find that running all those T5 is hot and draws a lot of juice? Don't use T5s @TheChemist77 they are probably the worst source of lighting of the major 3 sources (HID/LED/CFL) they make a ton of heat and don't give you hardly any light intensity. For side lighting a t5 might be ok but even then you're just increasing heat for barely any return if anything, with my 600w hps on I can't even tell if my t5 is in the room with it cause the HID is so much more powerful. T5s are mostly only good for rooting clones.


No and 1000 watts is 1000 watts and honestly it won't be long before more growers are usin em, I know 4 that have changed over in just the past few weeks


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## Yodaweed (Dec 23, 2014)

Here's my UV-B light


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## nomofatum (Dec 25, 2014)

RM3 said:


> No and 1000 watts is 1000 watts and honestly it won't be long before more growers are usin em, I know 4 that have changed over in just the past few weeks


It amazes me how many people don't understand that. All electronic devices are 99.9999% efficient at converting electricity into heat. Only loss is light or sound that escapes your enclosure. Otherwise once absorbed it turns to heat. A watt truly is a universal measure for heat output of an electronic device.


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