# Quick Drying - The Other Side Of The Coin



## fdd2blk (Mar 30, 2007)

some information for you to use to make an educated descion.

The Cannabis Grow Bible - by Greg Green

"... Drying bud helps relax THC particles...
... Bud that is cured well smokes the best using a 3 - 4 week canning process...
...Curing breaks down chlorophyll which has Magnesium-containg green pigments. Magnesium is responsible for that sharp and harsh taste in the back of your throat..."



The Cannabible 2 - by Jason King

"...properly cured herb will have a multitude of luscious aromas, many of which words cannot describe..."

Grow Great Marijuana - by Logan Edwards

"...the entire drying process should take place over 1 - 2 weeks...
...if buds are dried to quickly, the flavor of the herb will become harsh...
...the drying of your harvest should be a slow steady process...
...you're trying to protect moisture from evaporation. this moisture will use the air in the jar to form aerobic bacteria that will convert (eat) the chlorophyll and cure your buds..."

The Good Bud Guide - by Albie

...speed drying is reckless...


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## GraF (Mar 30, 2007)

nice post..... I feel conflict comming veeeeeery soon.........

and now......................


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## fdd2blk (Mar 30, 2007)

ignore it and it will go away. lol


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## acursedlie (Mar 30, 2007)

nice post. i don't see why there would be hostility over an intellectual point.


maybe im drunk?
nah. im not.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 30, 2007)

fdd2blk, I feel very confident that none of the authors you cite had a low-temp dryer like mine. 

Moreover, have you ever noticed how incestuous many grow books are? They frequently and liberally thieve unproven information from one another- and don't bother to add anything to the proof before printing it. When they _*do*_ come up with something novel, it's not usually proven with any logical or scientific method. 

Let's look at your quotes:



> The Cannabis Grow Bible - by Greg Green
> 
> "... Drying bud helps relax THC particles...


_

*RELAX* _THC "particles"? 

What, do they put their little feet up and click on the teev?

Hey, there's some science... 



> ... Bud that is cured well smokes the best using a 3 - 4 week canning process...


Compared to... what? You've taken this out of the context it was written in. What 'quick dry' methods does the author cite as being bad?

I'll be the first to admit that attempting to dry buds with a microwave or conventional oven will yield harsh and nasty smoking buds. This is most likely what the author is warning against. 



> ...Curing breaks down chlorophyll which has Magnesium-containg green pigments.


If 'curing' simply means "waiting for 'x' period of time," with the expectation that chlorophyll will break down into simpler organic components (mainly into simple sugars), I'll bite. 



> Magnesium is responsible for that sharp and harsh taste in the back of your throat..."


...however, Mg is an element all by itself and isn't going to break down, no matter how long you wait.

While Mg is a central ion in chlorophyll, this sounds unlikely- and fairly hard to prove, one way or the other. 

Magnesium doesn't have much of a flavour that I can tell from either sucking on a broken piece of a motorcycle crankcase  or from Epsom Salts (MgSO4). Haven't tried to smoke much of it- magnesium, especially finely powdered pure Mg, burns a little too *enthusiastically* for my bong, thanks. 

The logical way to prove or disprove this is to 'quick dry' (presuming oven/microwave, etc), 'dehydrate' and 'cure' samples of something else which has chlorophyll in it- and smoke it. Lettuce, maybe?  See my point?

Harsh smoking weed is most likely overdried and thus burns too hot and fast. Adding a little humidity back in solves the problem.



> The Cannabible 2 - by Jason King
> 
> "...properly cured herb will have a multitude of luscious aromas, many of which words cannot describe..."


What's he mean by 'properly cured'?



> Grow Great Marijuana - by Logan Edwards
> 
> "...the entire drying process should take place over 1 - 2 weeks...
> ...if buds are dried to quickly, the flavor of the herb will become harsh...
> ...


Wait- wait... is it *presence of magnesium* or *lack of aerobic bacterial activity* which causes harshness? Mr Green should go talk that one over with Mr Edwards- and get their stories straight. 

fdd2blk, why don't you go cook up a low-temp dehydrator and try it, compared to your favoured hang drying? Just by doing the experiment, you'll _*instantly*_ have more information than most grow book authors.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 30, 2007)

no thank you 20 years of tried and true methods are enough for me. 

i'm in no hurry. do they quick dry fine cigars. 

i wonder how many people are cooking their hard work right now. hope they get it right the first time. 

the bud takes on a whole new appearance. it is totally different. ask my a method i haven't tried.


i will be more than happy to complete any and ALL quotes above. i'll take then one at a time. give me a few minutes. thanks.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 30, 2007)

It occurs to me that Mr Edwards provides some _*patently bad*_ advice in this:



> ...you're trying to protect moisture from evaporation. this moisture will use the air in the jar to form aerobic bacteria"


If you were to seal damp buds in a glass jar, you'd be much more likely to wind up with fuzzy mould all over the buds in a few days- presumably to keep your aerobic bacteria company! 

Don't ever put damp buds in a sealed container!


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2007)

Al B. Fuct said:


> fdd2blk, I feel very confident that none of the authors you cite had a low-temp dryer like mine.
> 
> Moreover, have you ever noticed how incestuous many grow books are? They frequently and liberally thieve unproven information from one another- and don't bother to add anything to the proof before printing it. When they _*do*_ come up with something novel, it's not usually proven with any logical or scientific method.
> 
> ...


I'VE NEVER FULLY SHARED MY DRYING METHOD. ARE YOU ASSUMING AGAIN?


why you make me do this? i was only giving out info.


_
*RELAX* _THC "particles"?


"drying your bud helps to "relax" (stoner word) THC particles by removing water from the bud. This makes THC easier to burn and thus more psychoactive than when it is damp. Applying heat will also remove water but will affect the overall cannabiniod content of the bud. It is not a good idea to press bud or to pack bud tightly during the curing process as the bunching of THC particles makes them harder to burn."
end paragraph



this is not a fight. i hope. let's all try to learn from this one. 
except me. i will never build a drying box. sorry. i still love you though.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2007)

i'm going all the way back to where i first learned. these are 2 gentlemen that i'm not going to question. i would like to meet them though.


taken from Marijuana Grower's Guide by Mel Frank
first edition published 1978 by Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal
my edition- 1997 color 12 printing 
(there are 42 total printings. when including all editions.(that's A LOT)

my apologies to the authors.

pg. 303
DRYING
Living marijuana leaves are 80 percent water; colas are about 70 percent water. Marijuana dried for smoking contains only eight to ten percent water, or about 10 percent of the original amount. There are several methods used to evaporate water; these have little effect on potency, but can affect the taste, bouquet, and smoothness of the smoke. Generally,the slower the dry, the smoother the taste. Excess drying and drying methods that use heat will evaporate some of the volatile oils that give grass its unique taste and aroma.
Grasses which are dried as part of the curing process usually have a smooth, mild taste, because of the elimination of chlorophyll and various proteins. Cured marijuana may also be a little sweeter than when first picked, because the curing converts some of the plants starch to simple sugars.
Some grasses are tasty and smooth-smoking when they are dried without curing, especially fresh homegrown buds which retain their volatile oils and sugar. Many homegrowers have acquired a taste for "natural" uncured grass, with its minty chlorophyll flavor; such marijuana is dreid directly after harvesting.

pg. 305

Oven Drying- 
(same as a box, just an oven CAN go alot hotter. this one doesn't. pay attention to the temperatures.)

Oven drying is often used by gardeners to sample their crop. Small quantities of material can be quickly dried by being placed in a 150 degree to 200 degree oven for about 10 minutes. Larger quantities can be dried in trays that contain a single layer of material or in a dehydrator. Oven-dried and dehydrator-dried marijuana usually has a harsh taste and bite, and losses much of it's bouquet. The method is often used to dry marijuana which has been cured and dried but to moist to smoke, or to dry marijuana which is to be used for cooking or extractions. It is an adequate method for obtaining dry material for testing and emergencies, but the main harvest should not be dried in this way.
Oven drying works best with leaves. When leaves are dried together with buds or shoots, remove the material from the oven periodically, to separate the faster drying leaf material (before it burns) from the slower-drying buds. One way to do this is to place all the material on a wire screen over a tray. Every few minutes rub the material across the screen. Dried material falls into the tray and is removed from the oven. Repeat until all the material has dried.
Oven curing works well when closely watched. Dried material that is left in the oven will lose potency quickly. Any time the marijuana begins to char, most of the potency will already have been lost. This should not be a problem unless you are careless, or allow the temperature to go above 200 degrees.




and this is where i stop. i will address comments though.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2007)

fdd2blk, address this:

Stop bitching about dehydrators until you have one in operation. k? 

Grow-book experts usually aren't.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2007)

Al B. Fuct said:


> fdd2blk, address this:
> 
> Stop bitching about dehydrators until you have one in operation. k?
> 
> Grow-book experts usually aren't.



how about you get off my thread. i'm only offering people a second opinion before you convince them all to destroy their weed. did you not read the part where i said i've tried them all? now you just had to get pissy. i am not knocking quick drying. i'm just letting everyone know IT IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO DRY YOUR POT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's all. now go play. and be nice. i love you. 




guess these all go in the trash.


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## GraF (Mar 31, 2007)

man, how did I know that was gonna happen??? I guess that some people are really stuck on their own methods, and thats why there is so much CONFLICT... (who said that there wouldnt be conflict here?) I think that people should open their brains a little instead of making a box out of it and not letting anything in.. anyways....

Im pretty sure that cured weed turns out better (I said pretty sure) but if Bfuct likes his method then whatever...... overwith


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2007)

i will ask him again because i do not know, ARE FINE CIGARS QUICK DRIED? not lettuce, cubans.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2007)

i can't believe he clowned ed and mel. not experts? how about THE experts.


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## GraF (Mar 31, 2007)

shit man,

you are right about THE experts... dont you think that if this was "the best way" to cure buds, he would be right up there with them?? but hes not so, he is here, with us, typing........... (and not writing books)


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## KwikDraw21 (Mar 31, 2007)

jesus fdd, you have a lot of reference to go by. and a book on rolling? man you know your shit. i commend you. my favorite rollit-upper


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## GraF (Mar 31, 2007)

_"jesus fdd, you have a lot of reference to go by. and a book on rolling? man you know your shit. i commend you. my favorite rollit-upper"_

*This is coming from a guy that grows in a cardboard box^^^*

*do some research b4 you try talking down on someone "kwikdraw"*


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2007)

Just so everyone knows, I'm not wasting any more time with fdd, who now resides on my ignore list. Anyone who cites a grow-book which recommends sealing damp buds in a glass jar as *good* information isn't worth my attention, much less my keystrokes. 

Remember, marijuana grow books are NOT bibles, no matter how many of them co-opt the name 'bible.' Grow book authors can and frequently DO get it wrong- they're not working against any peer-review process. You can cite all the wrong information you want- but it won't get any righter.


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## silk (Mar 31, 2007)

It think you can take Al B. Fuct 's comments with a grain of salt. I take all the advice on this topic with salt. The right way to dry and cure bud is to your liking. 
I believe for some like Al B. Fuct and myself, there will always come a time in our growth as students that we will question the teacher. This in my opinion is the best a teacher can expect.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2007)

silk said:


> It think you can take Al B. Fuct 's comments with a grain of salt. I take all the advice on this topic with salt. The right way to dry and cure bud is to your liking.


The difference being that I've personally tried the contended methods, while some critics are happy to cite anyone's else often seriously dodgy information rather than seeking evidence independently.



silk said:


> I believe for some like Al B. Fuct and myself, there will always come a time in our growth as students that we will question the teacher. This in my opinion is the best a teacher can expect.


And fair enough; but students must first develop a _competent critical analysis framework_ before setting forth on independent study, if the analysis is to have any merit. In simpler terms, a _*bullshit filter*_. Some folks don't have one of those in full working order just yet. 

If grow-books were peer-reviewed, where all results are replicatable independently by others, it would be reasonable to take what they say verbatim. However, I'm not sure any such thing exists. The result is a bunch of grow authors who tell the same wrong tales over and over- for pay. 

No one on rollitup is paying me for my opinions. The real proof of any information is in independent *replicatability*. I make sure that anything I suggest on here is absolutely replicatable by anyone who tries it- or I don't waste time writing it up. When someone else successfully tests one of my theories, this is as close to a peer-review as you'll ever get in this line of work. 

This is why I invite critics to _*try*_ something before attempting to discredit it- and especially when trying to do so with rather suspect information, even if there is a great preponderance of it. I'm not suggesting that one typo invalidates an entire grow book, but if something like wet buds in a sealed jar gets past the author, you really do have to wonder about the rest of the content...


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## TheConstantGardner (Mar 31, 2007)

I sautee my buds in oil and garlic then duct tape them to the exhaust pipe of my '74 Gremlin and drive around the block a few times. mmmm, mmmm, mmmm, tastey!


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2007)

Al B. Fuct said:


> The difference being that I've personally tried the contended methods, while some critics are happy to cite anyone's else often seriously dodgy information rather than seeking evidence independently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i guess he missed the 20 years experience and i've tried them all part. anyone who doesn't know you can use a clone for a mother has a lot of learning to do.

i have a BIG jar of salt. love the stuff. now that i've been ignored, NEXT !!


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2007)

so to sum it all up, it is the descion of the grower to educate herself/himself on what he/she believes to be the proper method. not once did i state any personal opinion on this thread. like i said from the start this is just information i have to share. grow on my friends, grow on.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2007)

TheConstantGardner said:


> I sautee my buds in oil and garlic then duct tape them to the exhaust pipe of my '74 Gremlin and drive around the block a few times. mmmm, mmmm, mmmm, tastey!



i'm riding my bike behind you.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 31, 2007)

time for the jar.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 4, 2007)

not to beat a dead horse, but........ i was re-reading fuckeds original dry box thread and first he says my method is fine if my humidity is low. then i give him +rep for an idea of his, then he ignores me. ???????
https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/8973-bud-dryer-manicured-smoke-3-a-2.html

silly rabbit.


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## 4theist20 (Apr 4, 2007)

LOL! Wow! That was rediculous.... What a dick head. 

Anywho, thanks for the tips on curing. I have always heard that people dry their herbs (All herbs, not limited to marijuana.) by hanging upside down in a low humidity room. SO I like to stick w the tried and true. I also know people that cure their buds in air tight jars, however they do suggest opening the jar every so often to release moisture. As for the oven? The only time I heat my weed up is when I'm smoking or eating it. 

Thank you again for that advice FDD. Sorry you had to go through hell for sharing it.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 4, 2007)

4theist20 said:


> LOL! Wow! That was rediculous.... What a dick head.
> 
> Anywho, thanks for the tips on curing. I have always heard that people dry their herbs (All herbs, not limited to marijuana.) by hanging upside down in a low humidity room. SO I like to stick w the tried and true. I also know people that cure their buds in air tight jars, however they do suggest opening the jar every so often to release moisture. As for the oven? The only time I heat my weed up is when I'm smoking or eating it.
> 
> Thank you again for that advice FDD. Sorry you had to go through hell for sharing it.


 your first post and it is a hug to me. 
hello, friend and welcome. you should enjoy yourself here.
i hang mine just until the outer bud is dry. just until it gets firm. then i jar it. i open the jars as needed. it took me several years to get it right. i like to leave a lot of moisture but i keep a very close eye on it. i've NEVER had mold from drying. i actually put wet bud in a jar and just kept opening it often. typo in a book or not i made it work.

happy curing to all connoisseurs.


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## TillthedayiDIE420 (Apr 4, 2007)

Good thread buddy, just read threw this and I also use Jars  they have worked for 5 years without mold for me 

I guess he gets worked up when he see's someone giving info from a book, but he is thinking you've learnt all your shit from the books... You've been growing for 20 years and have alot of experience, Why not buy a book or two? it give's you helpful information if your not 100&#37; sure, it give's you reasurance aswell.


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## 000420 (Apr 4, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> how about you get off my thread. i'm only offering people a second opinion before you convince them all to destroy their weed. did you not read the part where i said i've tried them all? now you just had to get pissy. i am not knocking quick drying. i'm just letting everyone know IT IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO DRY YOUR POT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's all. now go play. and be nice. i love you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have many of the same books as I do in my collection, really good books.Throw them away....shit..I don't even let people touch mine..LOL.
You seem to know your shit bro..peace.. 

P.S.

I have a buddy who dehydrates his harvests, he grows some great weed a strain from oregon called the frost, but after he dehydrates it, let me tell you now that's some shit that belongs in the trash, IMHO he totally ruins it.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 4, 2007)

000420 said:


> You have many of the same books as I do in my collection, really good books.Throw them away....shit..I don't even let people touch mine..LOL.
> You seem to know your shit bro..peace..
> 
> P.S.
> ...


very nice library. where did you find the MM guide?

my buddy destroyed 3lbs of white widow quick drying it in his grow room after harvest. turned on the dehumidifer, fans and a little heat. he dried 3 lbs in 4 days. it turned to dust when pinched. it went out to patients and stoners. now everyone has to re-moisten it? wtf? do it right. i love my pot and it loves me. hey, that's my new sig. thanks 000420.


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## loveisallyouneed (Apr 4, 2007)

Put fdd on an ignore list?! tisk, tisk...


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## 000420 (Apr 4, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> very nice library. where did you find the MM guide?
> 
> my buddy destroyed 3lbs of white widow quick drying it in his grow room after harvest. turned on the dehumidifer, fans and a little heat. he dried 3 lbs in 4 days. it turned to dust when pinched. it went out to patients and stoners. now everyone has to re-moisten it? wtf? do it right. i love my pot and it loves me. hey, that's my new sig. thanks 000420.


The one by Rick Muaghs?, in the solo photo? Believe it or not the author is acctually staying at my buddies house right now, and helped him with a huge harvest last year, using mycorrhizal of course.Anyways we all got a copy of the book for free, pretty sweet and I got to meet him of course and smoke his buds they grew...a whole shit load of them..LOL..here is a link to his site you can grab his book, I think he just released a new version this year..peace bro.. 

Medical Marijuana Guide - By Rick S. Maughs


here is a picture of the biggest medical marijuana plant of 2006 grown with ricks mycorrhizal formula.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 4, 2007)

amazing. i'm buying that book.


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## 000420 (Apr 4, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> amazing. i'm buying that book.


Yup,it's pretty sweet.His plants are unbelievable.....


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## Desired User Name (Apr 5, 2007)

Holy fucking fat crap!


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## medical.use (Apr 6, 2007)

000420 said:


> The one by Rick Muaghs?, in the solo photo? Believe it or not the author is acctually staying at my buddies house right now, and helped him with a huge harvest last year, using mycorrhizal of course.Anyways we all got a copy of the book for free, pretty sweet and I got to meet him of course and smoke his buds they grew...a whole shit load of them..LOL..here is a link to his site you can grab his book, I think he just released a new version this year..peace bro..
> 
> Medical Marijuana Guide - By Rick S. Maughs
> 
> ...


Yea he has a new 2007 book i have a copy. I was actually talking to Rick today he's the grow king. The plants in his book look like tree's.


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## KwikDraw21 (Apr 7, 2007)

GraF said:


> _"jesus fdd, you have a lot of reference to go by. and a book on rolling? man you know your shit. i commend you. my favorite rollit-upper"_
> 
> *This is coming from a guy that grows in a cardboard box^^^*
> 
> *do some research b4 you try talking down on someone "kwikdraw"*


first off... i didnt talk down on anyone "GraF"

in terms a neanderthal could understand, this is what i said: "wow man you have done quite a bit of reasearch. that is really cool i think you are a really good grower!"

i know commend is a big word huh. sorry about that.

your lucky the internet cannot cause physical pain. all i have to say is karma. grumpy old shithead

ps the cardboard box is history, my plants are outside, and doing better that half the plants ive seen grown on here. hey at least i grow. i may have limited resources, but did that stop al capone from escaping alcatraz?

so you get nothing! you lose! good day sir!

YTMND - Willy Wonka (improved)


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## GraF (Apr 7, 2007)

okay little man, first of all, you said this the first time around: ""_jesus fdd, you have a lot of reference to go by. and a book on rolling? man you know your shit. i commend you. my favorite rollit-upper"_


then you tried saying that this is what you meant by that: _"this is what i said: "wow man you have done quite a bit of reasearch. that is really cool i think you are a really good grower!"_

so yes, you DID talk down on someone that has been growing for 20 FUCKING years while you are growing in boxes then transplanting outdoors, you should grow 30 plants, transplant, then talk shit to someone who has no clue.... for instance, yourself.

and you are right commend is a very long word....... for people who lie and act as if they can cheat their way out of shit like what they say or do...

karma....what goes around comes around yadayadayada ya know its justa matter of time b4 somethin bad happens to any one of us right?? exactly so, karma is really just life, fuck karma, I hope she hears me too!!

grumpy old shithead??? what?? Im 22 yrs old and Im never grumpy, I just get pissed when COCKS like you come out of nowhere, dont know what the fuck they are talking about, and THEN out of all things try to fuckin lie about it..... so, I WIN!! YOURE A KID, YOU LOSE!!! good nite.......... SIR! _


_


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## GraF (Apr 7, 2007)

how cute is that!!??!? you got me chocolates!!?!? OMG, I got you a present too!!!


Ill give the wonkas to my two yr old daughter but, here, go nite nite..


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## KwikDraw21 (Apr 7, 2007)

your a cunt.

i complimented someone else and so then you take it as an insult. um cool dude. why dont you take the stick out of your ass


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## KwikDraw21 (Apr 8, 2007)

so hang on... im a little confused... your 22 years old, but you've been growing for 20 years? oh ok that makes sense. your obviously the best im sorry for saying anything


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## btt (Apr 8, 2007)

FDD2BLK has been growing 20 years....


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## KwikDraw21 (Apr 9, 2007)

oh. yeah i know. thats why i said hes a good grower. 1 of the best on the site in MY opinion


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## fdd2blk (Apr 9, 2007)

i have a warm tingly sensation in my groin.


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## Desired User Name (Apr 9, 2007)

Oh snap! =\


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## GraF (Apr 9, 2007)

cut the bullshit, 

"_jesus fdd, you have a lot of reference to go by. and a book on rolling? man you know your shit. i commend you. my favorite rollit-upper"_

dude, if you CAN READ, then you will understand that you bein a smartass by posting this comment!!! 

and I never said that I have been growing for 20yrs I said that you talked down on someone growing for 20yrs......... maybe you cant read. I understand, just ignore me and dont try to read anymore K?


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## KwikDraw21 (Apr 10, 2007)

all becuase of a compliment...


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## fadrian (Apr 10, 2007)

hahah GraF _is _a cunt.
when i read that the first time i was like wtf, he just went off on him for no reason. how could you confuse any part of what he said, he wasnt being sarcastic you must've just been high.


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## fadrian (Apr 10, 2007)

sorry i called you a cunt.


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## GraF (Apr 10, 2007)

oh my god, you two must be like 17 or somethin because seriously, 

last time "wow, even a book on rolling j's, I commend you fdd2blk, youre my favorite rollitupper"

that doesnt sound sarcastic??? If I said that to someone, I would definately be talkin shit BUT BUT BUT, if you werent then whatever, I apologize.

Fadrian...... have I ever ebven spoken to you before??? no. and there are a whole lot of people on this site that I HAVE helped so, u callin me a cunt isnt really called for unless I can just refer to you as my bitch.... is that okay?? ok cool,,, wheres my bitch at??


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## Seedlessone (Apr 10, 2007)

that does not sounds sarcastic at all. I was going to write the same comment almost. He is just saying that he knows he shit by all the books he owns, vast knowledge, etc. Graf I like you and all but you totally are sticking your own foot in mouth....but ne ways lets all get along guys

now that I think about it you did the same thing to me....you misunderstood what I said and took it as me being a smartass....we had the same convo on another thread.,


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## GraF (Apr 10, 2007)

yeah, I get it now, I did say that if he was actually complimenting him I apologize.....

For some reason I could see myself saying that... but if I did say it, it WOULD be a smartass comment- I guess its a guilty conscience type thing..... 

But again........ I apologize.


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## jackinthebox (Apr 10, 2007)

Noone else is mad at that rick guy??? his plants are to big, I know why my outdoor plants arent that big now, because that huge thing is stealing all the resources outside, had to hook my 2 plants up to oxygen tanks tanks yesterday, because it they even get a fresh breath of air anymore

o and fdd.. my birthday is coming up pretty soon, and instead of a gift card this year or that stupid pony thing u got me last year, how bout one of those nice cardboard boxes u had, and dont bother cleaning in out, not sure what was in it.. but u can leave it in there, just wrap and send  

damn but has anything else tried that Rick's Monster Plant Grow? just curious becuase slick ricks plants are pretty nice. And whoever got to meet and smoke with slick rick.. is basically a legend now to


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## fadrian (Apr 10, 2007)

i taught rick everything he knows


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## cannondale3000 (Apr 18, 2007)

Hang until dry then put into jars for curring. I haven't had better bud from any other producer. With that said just do what you think is right. There are fundamental rules that you should follow. Hand up side down until dry, put into jars to re-moisturize / dry for about 3 weeks. Then indulge! I have experimented with putting it into the frig after the 3 weeks and had some good results.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 18, 2007)

cannondale3000 said:


> Hang until dry then put into jars for curring. I haven't had better bud from any other producer. With that said just do what you think is right. There are fundamental rules that you should follow. Hand up side down until dry, put into jars to re-moisturize / dry for about 3 weeks. Then indulge! I have experimented with putting it into the frig after the 3 weeks and had some good results.



the fridge.....hhhmmm. now that i may try. thanks.


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## ILoveUMaryJane (Apr 19, 2007)

Woah GraF, you kinda went off on one there. I know what you mean, it could've sounded sarcastic, but you gotta give people the benefit of the doubt when using a medium of communication as open to interpretation as typed text. Hope everyone's cool now


----------



## btt (Apr 19, 2007)

I would think the fridge would be good, just make sure your bud is pretty dry so moisture doesn't accumulate and cause mold.


----------



## GraF (Apr 20, 2007)

ILoveYouMaryJane, 

like I said, S O R R Y, thanks for bringing that back up though, I appreciate it!!!! lol


----------



## fdd2blk (May 5, 2007)

i dried a small nuggy using the fan off of my ballast. i just put it on a paper plate and set it next to the vents on the side. there is a fan in the ballast and heat. it dried my nuggy in 3 days. it looked really good. then i pinched it and it turned to dust. stem and all. heat is bad.


----------



## abudsmoker (May 5, 2007)

rather than fast cure your weed just go buy a bale of hay to smoke.


----------



## fdd2blk (May 5, 2007)

abudsmoker said:


> rather than fast cure your weed just go buy a bale of hay to smoke.



exactly. i waited 3 months to grow it, i can certainly wait 3 weeks to dry it. i recently opened a jar i have had stored since NOV. perfect!


----------



## matias2911 (May 8, 2007)

Fdd, I agree totally with your method of drying and am employing it as we speak. It DOES make bud taste, smell and smoke better. I have also noticed , by curing my buds loonger in glass jars, the taste develops its complexity and the bud seems to become more potent! I dont know if this is just placebo but I really love well cured bud. Oven dried bud luiterally kills my throat , it smells, tastes and looks, GREEN, like mown grass. 
As I read the beginning of this thread I could not believe what I saw, how could somebody actually defend dehydrating bud....yuck....what a waste. 
I did fast dry a bud once(ujsing the damp towels microwave method), it tasted like crap.


----------



## SmokerE (Jul 10, 2007)

FDD, I personally have at least one of those books you own. Do you know of any of them that might have a botany degree?


----------



## fdd2blk (Jul 10, 2007)

SmokerE said:


> FDD, I personally have at least one of those books you own. Do you know of any of them that might have a botany degree?



any books with a degree? there is a marijuana botany book.


----------



## SmokerE (Jul 10, 2007)

I mean authors.


----------



## 000420 (Jul 10, 2007)

SmokerE said:


> FDD, I personally have at least one of those books you own. Do you know of any of them that might have a botany degree?





SmokerE said:


> I mean authors.


Robert Connell Clarke , author of "marijuana botany" actually wrote the text for his master's thesis to earn his graduate degree in botany from UC Berkeley. 

he also wrote the book "hashish".....


----------



## SmokerE (Jul 10, 2007)

That's what I'm talking bout. Thank you!


----------



## 000420 (Jul 10, 2007)

SmokerE said:


> That's what I'm talking bout. Thank you!


no probs, and here is what it says on the last page of "marijuana botany", I left a little out.

He wrote and illustrated "the botany and ecology of cannabis" as his undergraduate thesis at U.C. Santa Cruz where he graduated with honors.


----------



## fdd2blk (Jul 10, 2007)

ppffffssssstttttttt. anyone can write a book.


----------



## GoodFriend (Jul 10, 2007)

then you write one fdd


----------



## SmokerE (Jul 10, 2007)

That's like saying everyone can grow a plant. Some just do it better than others.


----------



## fdd2blk (Jul 10, 2007)

my book:

Shut up and grow.

-the end


----------



## GoodFriend (Jul 10, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> my book:
> 
> Shut up and grow.
> 
> -the end


 
i love you fdd


----------



## SmokerE (Jul 10, 2007)

Harsh......


----------



## fdd2blk (Jul 10, 2007)

SmokerE said:


> Harsh......



no, it's really that easy. ssshhhhhhh


----------



## fierybong (Apr 22, 2008)

Lots of conjecture here, I do know this from personal experience... if you don't cure it right smoking it will make your teeth feel like they are going to rot out of your mouth.

(my friend had a few plants that flowered, we dried them for like 3 days and tried a little bit, it gets you stoned but man your teeth _nearly_ ache)


----------



## lowerlevel (Apr 23, 2008)

ok since all the xperts are here.. question if your bud dries in 3 days crispy and stem break after hanging them is this considered quick drying? i mean every time i hang them they dry pretty quick.. is there a problem i am over seeing. temp is around 78 and humidity is around 50-60.. should i place them on trays and dry like that?


----------



## panhead (Apr 23, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> my book:
> 
> Shut up and grow.
> 
> -the end


Short & sweet with no big words.

Now thats a book i can sink my teeth into,as long as it has pics  .


----------



## LemonHerb (Apr 23, 2008)

Since this thread is so on topic...

How about that whole water curing thing, that sounds interesting to me. Any opinions on this?


----------



## 000420 (Apr 23, 2008)

LemonHerb said:


> Since this thread is so on topic...
> 
> How about that whole water curing thing, that sounds interesting to me. Any opinions on this?



it's nasty........I'd rather not ever.....


----------



## LemonHerb (Apr 23, 2008)

000420 said:


> it's nasty........I'd rather not ever.....


Really? The thing about it in the faq seems to make it sound like it has a better taste and potency, just lower weight.


----------



## Budsworth (Apr 23, 2008)

LemonHerb said:


> Really? The thing about it in the faq seems to make it sound like it has a better taste and potency, just lower weight.


I would never water cure a frosty tasty dank bud.


----------



## 000420 (Apr 23, 2008)

LemonHerb said:


> Really? The thing about it in the faq seems to make it sound like it has a better taste and potency, just lower weight.


try it......tell me what you think........just do it with one bud, and tell me what you think.


----------



## LemonHerb (Apr 23, 2008)

000420 said:


> try it......tell me what you think........just do it with one bud, and tell me what you think.


I plan too, assuming I get to my first harvest without screwing everything up I intend to try several different drying and curing methods to see what I like.


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## fdd2blk (Apr 23, 2008)

LemonHerb said:


> I plan too, assuming I get to my first harvest without screwing everything up I intend to try several different drying and curing methods to see what I like.


hang-dry most of it.


----------



## 000420 (Apr 23, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> hang-dry most of it.


$10 says he can't finish a bowl of the water cured.....


----------



## GoodFriend (Apr 23, 2008)

000420 said:


> $10 says he can't finish a bowl of the water cured.....


water cure def. takes a lot of the joy out of smokin herb... =\

i think its one of those things though that we all gotta try.... once... haha


... luckily i had a friend who did it and i sampled his... that was enough for me to not ever try myself =p


plus... a water cure would make me wait longer to smoke than if i just hang dry, then jar (where i am 2 full days hanging and branches are snapping, 1-2 more days in a jar burping and they're ready to toke)

less than a week and i'm blazing some great tasting smoke... may not be as smooth as it would be after a months cure.... but its definitely treatin me better than a water cured bud would...


----------



## raeman1990 (Apr 23, 2008)

WOW graf obviously cant read.... KWIKI WAS COMPLIMENTING FDD!!!!

And i compliment him too,,, i think every one should stop saying shit and just agree that FDD.... who ever he is... is a great grower and a benefit to this site...!!1


----------



## raeman1990 (Apr 23, 2008)

ha i just water cured a sample of my harvest.. not much... but it worked pretty well..i like it because its really hard to screw up with humidity and shit..

but 

it does make the weed look like poo and almost all of the smell was removed  (strawberry cough)


----------



## cyks (Apr 23, 2008)

This thread needs to close, way too many people are double, triple and quadruple posting their flame. I don't care what this is about or how big your post count is... what I am seeing isn't acceptable for any forum.

Besides growing advice is like picking toppings on a pizza: nobody ever agrees on the perfect pizza.


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 23, 2008)

cyks said:


> This thread needs to close, way too many people are double, triple and quadruple posting their flame. I don't care what this is about or how big your post count is... what I am seeing isn't acceptable for any forum.
> 
> Besides growing advice is like picking toppings on a pizza: nobody ever agrees on the perfect pizza.


whoah, i'm a mod and you want to close my thread? you realize this thread was started over a year ago and has history behind it?


----------



## cyks (Apr 23, 2008)

That is funny, i thought I made my post crystal clear. I am sorry...


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 23, 2008)

cyks said:


> That is funny, i thought I made my post crystal clear. I am sorry...


yeah, you did. you think it should be closed. thank you for your opinion.


----------



## GoodFriend (Apr 24, 2008)

woohoo!

opinions being ignored!!! fuck yeah!!!




.... post count?=p
says the man whos been here a month



in a year he'll be one of the gang... hahaa



man.... speaking of quick drying... Plants cut SUNDAY are being toked on... some mighty RAFT... and its got me going good... gonna toke a bunch more and pass out =]=]


----------



## blonddie07 (Apr 24, 2008)

Yo.. FDD.. Since we on the subject... ima have to say that qucik drying is HORRIBLE BUD. 

I took 1 ounce of my plant and took another ounce... I did a lot of research on ur posts.. and how u dry and cure.. and applied it to my pllants...

Quick dried in a box with 2 fans... one blowing in and other out.... it dried and cured in 6 days... 

The other half.. i hung for about 7 days, when the outside of the buds were dry and tight, i through them in jar... its been third week of cure. and they smell, look, and smoke like 4903240 times better...

THanks brother.


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 24, 2008)

blonddie07 said:


> Yo.. FDD.. Since we on the subject... ima have to say that qucik drying is HORRIBLE BUD.
> 
> I took 1 ounce of my plant and took another ounce... I did a lot of research on ur posts.. and how u dry and cure.. and applied it to my pllants...
> 
> ...



glad i could help.


----------



## LemonHerb (Apr 24, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> hang-dry most of it.


I plan to, it all depends on what I yield though. I might come out the other end with an 8th judging by my grow skill so far. But I plan to hang dry and water cure, food dehydrator and oven. But then take them all and use the jars to give it a few weeks, and give them a fair comparison. 

I feel like it's a good idea to do it on my first grow, before I build up too much bias. I doubt what I will be growing will be all that good anyway, so no big loss, it's just bag seed.


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 24, 2008)

LemonHerb said:


> I plan to, it all depends on what I yield though. I might come out the other end with an 8th judging by my grow skill so far. But I plan to hang dry and water cure, food dehydrator and oven. But then take them all and use the jars to give it a few weeks, and give them a fair comparison.
> 
> I feel like it's a good idea to do it on my first grow, before I build up too much bias. I doubt what I will be growing will be all that good anyway, so no big loss, it's just bag seed.


you should start a thread for this. it would be cool to see it all done side-by-side.


----------



## Yota (Apr 24, 2008)

Good post. Curing is the best method ever, its more than a method, its the right way to do it if you enjoy your buds taste. 

FDD, how many days do you dry your buds before jarring.


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 24, 2008)

Yota said:


> Good post. Curing is the best method ever, its more than a method, its the right way to do it if you enjoy your buds taste.
> 
> FDD, how many days do you dry your buds before jarring.


depends on the weather. 3 to 4 days in the summer. up to 10 in the winter.


----------



## Yota (Apr 24, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> depends on the weather. 3 to 4 days in the summer. up to 10 in the winter.


and do they seem crispy or dry on the outside before u jar em? Mine are feeling dry on day 5 of drying. Im in NorCal so we have similar weather atm.


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 24, 2008)

Yota said:


> and do they seem crispy or dry on the outside before u jar em? Mine are feeling dry on day 5 of drying. Im in NorCal so we have similar weather atm.


the small lower popcorn buds should "break" off the branch. the top big buds should be "bendy". they feel crispy on the outside but bend. a day in the jar and the crisp should become soft again. it's the repeated process of this that helps break things down and give a smoother flavor.


----------



## Yota (Apr 25, 2008)

thanks... i cant believe that guy at the beginning flamed u for making a useful thread. Ignorance is bliss i guess.


----------



## richkid (Apr 25, 2008)

hey fdd, im about to hang my plants in a week or so. i plan on hanging my plant for a week and curing for about 2-3weeks. my question is, have u ever put those silicon packets that absorb the oxygen into the jars? i read it somewhere but dont know if its a good idea.


----------



## fdd2blk (Apr 25, 2008)

richkid said:


> hey fdd, im about to hang my plants in a week or so. i plan on hanging my plant for a week and curing for about 2-3weeks. my question is, have u ever put those silicon packets that absorb the oxygen into the jars? i read it somewhere but dont know if its a good idea.


no reason to.


----------



## ganji2 (Apr 25, 2008)

raeman1990 said:


> WOW graf obviously cant read.... KWIKI WAS COMPLIMENTING FDD!!!!
> 
> And i compliment him too,,, i think every one should stop saying shit and just agree that FDD.... who ever he is... is a great grower and a benefit to this site...!!1


You're all riding fdds nuts a little too hard...


----------



## LoudBlunts (Apr 25, 2008)

ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!11


----------



## DrGreenFinger (May 7, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> how about you get off my thread. i'm only offering people a second opinion before you convince them all to destroy their weed. did you not read the part where i said i've tried them all? now you just had to get pissy. i am not knocking quick drying. i'm just letting everyone know IT IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO DRY YOUR POT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's all. now go play. and be nice. i love you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sweet


----------



## DrGreenFinger (May 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Just so everyone knows, I'm not wasting any more time with fdd, who now resides on my ignore list. Anyone who cites a grow-book which recommends sealing damp buds in a glass jar as *good* information isn't worth my attention, much less my keystrokes.
> 
> Remember, marijuana grow books are NOT bibles, no matter how many of them co-opt the name 'bible.' Grow book authors can and frequently DO get it wrong- they're not working against any peer-review process. You can cite all the wrong information you want- but it won't get any righter.


This may be too late, but curing involves drying the buds, then placing them in jars...but only for a period. The point is to sweat the moisture from the center of the bud and evenly distribute it. The jar is re-opened to let moisture escape, and then re-sealed. I'm sure by now you know this, but just incase...


----------



## dankiestdank (Jun 28, 2008)

> _*RELAX* _THC "particles"?
> 
> What, do they put their little feet up and click on the teev?
> 
> Hey, there's some science...


Sorry I found that to be fucking HILARIOUS. Lol! I think your low-temp dryer would work fine Al!


----------



## OrarkCray (Sep 10, 2008)

GraF said:


> okay little man, first of all, you said this the first time around: ""_jesus fdd, you have a lot of reference to go by. and a book on rolling? man you know your shit. i commend you. my favorite rollit-upper"_
> 
> 
> then you tried saying that this is what you meant by that: _"this is what i said: "wow man you have done quite a bit of reasearch. that is really cool i think you are a really good grower!"_
> ...


 your an idiot man, and now you look like a total asshole. First off I know many growers, 1 thats been growing for 40 years, and her stuff is fucking bullshit, so your theory "if you've been growing for 20 years your good" is wrong, now I dont see how this man was talking down to FDD, i dont even see how you can mistake that so thats why I called you an idiot. (I mean idiot in the nicest sense of the word) This man at 22 has grown in a cardboard box and transplants outside and gets results hes proud of, if thats not a good grower I dont know what is. I just hope you see how you were wrong and this man was not talking down to fdd, but you talked down to this man so unfortunatly you look like a totally douche. This forum is for love of a plant, dont god ranting off to a member for complimenting someone. I hope none of THIS post has gone over your head as well. BTW good stuff FDD keep up the good work.


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## OrarkCray (Sep 10, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> no reason to.


 There is a reason to, if you can afford a dehumidafier and your closet or whereever your growing is too moist you can you dissecant to remove moisture. If your humidity is already fine than I would advise against it because you want your hang to go on as long as possible (pretty much)


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 10, 2008)

DrGreenFinger said:


> The point is to sweat the moisture from the center of the bud and evenly distribute it.


Yep, that's why I dry my buds in the dryer to the point where they are nearly crisp on the outside but have a bit of bend left in the stem. Then they get chucked in a tupperware container for the moisture equalisation, usually takes 24h or less.


----------



## genfranco (Sep 16, 2008)

GraF said:


> yeah, I get it now, I did say that if he was actually complimenting him I apologize.....
> 
> For some reason I could see myself saying that... but if I did say it, it WOULD be a smartass comment- I guess its a guilty conscience type thing.....
> 
> But again........ I apologize.


i saw it both ways.... Shake it off.. .lol


----------



## Hydrotech364 (Sep 23, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> time for the jar.
> View attachment 6540


*
Man fdd that is alot of fucking bud grooming,,,Ya do all of it youreself or hire out buddies?????Nice grow Props bro
*


----------



## twosaws (Sep 23, 2008)

good thread. what about water curing is it good or bad i don't care what bud looks like or smells like. i have read that it makes it more potent is this true and does it work thanks


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 23, 2008)

Potency is determined by the plant's DNA and the growing conditions. With good DNA and ideal conditions, you will get buds with the most potency a plant can make. 

Nothing _*you*_ can do to the buds will improve potency, not water curing, not leaving plants in the dark before harvest, nail through stem, etc etc etc. All wives' tales. 

You can _reduce _potency by storing buds badly, i.e. exposure to light or temps above 29C. 

The best you can do is to not _damage_ potency through poor handling.


----------



## twosaws (Sep 24, 2008)

well then potency is not do to just dna. it might start with dna but it finishes with how you handle the bud but my question is does water curing work and has anyone out there done it


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Potency is determined by the plant's DNA and the growing conditions. With good DNA and ideal conditions, you will get buds with the most potency a plant can make.
> 
> Nothing _*you*_ can do to the buds will improve potency, not water curing, not leaving plants in the dark before harvest, nail through stem, etc etc etc. All wives' tales.
> 
> ...



hey AL, don't tell anyone but, ........................................

i'm harvesting right now. i have my kerosene heater burning and my fans blowing. i'm in a 20' X 20' foot shop/playhouse. it's almost like a big "quick dry box". lol nothin' but love, my friend.


----------



## Jointsmith (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Potency is determined by the plant's DNA and the growing conditions. With good DNA and ideal conditions, you will get buds with the most potency a plant can make.
> 
> Nothing _*you*_ can do to the buds will improve potency, not water curing, not leaving plants in the dark before harvest, nail through stem, etc etc etc. All wives' tales.
> 
> ...


 

Water curing will not add more psychoactive compounds but it WILL increase the *potency to weight ratio* of your grade as you're removing more of the non-psychoactive material (weight).

(i.e. there'll be more THC in an 8th of water cured buds than an 8th of hang dried buds)

I'm pretty sure this is where that theory has come from.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

Jointsmith said:


> I'm pretty sure this is where that theory has come from.


OK, I'll buy in to the theory; non-psychoactive cannabinoids are water soluble, but THC is not. 

However, how much resin are you losing from simple mechanical removal of it? How do you separate and recover the lost THC & resin from the dissolved non-psychoactives?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> hey AL, don't tell anyone but, ........................................
> 
> i'm harvesting right now. i have my kerosene heater burning and my fans blowing. i'm in a 20' X 20' foot shop/playhouse. it's almost like a big "quick dry box". lol nothin' but love, my friend.


I won't tell a SOUL, not even myself. 

Shrink that giant dryer down to desktop size, use a means of making heat that you can accurately control to 29C (and doesn't smell like kero) and you're *on* to something.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I won't tell a SOUL, not even myself.
> 
> Shrink that giant dryer down to desktop size, use a means of making heat that you can accurately control to 29C (and doesn't smell like kero) and you're *on* to something.


there was a guy around here somewhere, ...........................


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

yeeeaaaah, somewhere in the mists of my dope-addled memory, I think I might know the same guy, hang on, let my brane marinate in caffeeeeeiiine for a while and I'll let you know what I come up with.


----------



## GoodFriend (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> yeeeaaaah, somewhere in the mists of my dope-addled memory, I think I might know the same guy, hang on, let my brane marinate in caffeeeeeiiine for a while and I'll let you know what I come up with.



... ever think about slinging them things on ebay?


... make a buck the legal way? lol


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> ... ever think about slinging them things on ebay?
> 
> 
> ... make a buck the legal way? lol


Nope, not for a minute. I couldn't make any sort of profit if I were to charge a reasonable price for them, at least not with the present construction technique. I can't see one selling well for much more than $100, $150 on the high & outside. Only takes me about an hour or so to whack one together, but...

25W resistors x6 @ $2.50 = $15
120mm fans x2 @ $15 = $30
thermostat x1 @ $40
dimmer x1 @ $15
MSC x1 @ $32
storage tub x1 @ $15
heat sink x1 @ $25
Hardware cloth, chain, misc hdwe - $20
parts total = $192

Some costs could be saved; the MSC is optional if you don't care about fan noise, the dimmer could be eliminated by shooting the R values just a bit higher, could use fewer resistors, maybe 3.

Top that with the liability insurance that is required for being an OEM electrical goods mfr... and it'd cost me money to do it, and no small amount of change, either.


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Potency is determined by the plant's DNA and the growing conditions. With good DNA and ideal conditions, you will get buds with the most potency a plant can make.
> 
> Nothing _*you*_ can do to the buds will improve potency, not water curing, not leaving plants in the dark before harvest, nail through stem, etc etc etc. All wives' tales.
> 
> ...


29C isn't all that hot, that's a nice day (for those who can't/don't convert, that's just under 85F). So, what you're saying is that on really warm days our buds' potency is breaking down? 
What about that of plants out in the sun immediately before harvest? 
Can you explain the breakdown that occurs at such a low temperature (you've mentioned this temp a couple of times), or maybe point me in a direction for searching? 

I'm trying to wrap my head around something that I understand to be fat (lipid) soluble basically behaving like a volatile ester. And, of course, there is the disconcerting notion that a warm day could basically ruin the dankness one has worked so hard to achieve. 

Also, am I damaging my plants by handling them when I inspect them for damage, bugs, and so on? I handle them the way I do animals and children (but no spit).

And fdd, am I to understand that your initial post way back when is now to be ignored or disregarded? Are you changing your stance regarding quick-drying?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> 29C isn't all that hot, that's a nice day (for those who can't/don't convert, that's just under 85F). So, what you're saying is that on really warm days our buds' potency is breaking down?
> What about that of plants out in the sun immediately before harvest?
> Can you explain the breakdown that occurs at such a low temperature (you've mentioned this temp a couple of times), or maybe point me in a direction for searching?


Here's a bit from the US Gubmint:



> Reactivity Profile
> 1-TRANS-DELTA-9-TETRAHYDROCANNABINOL* is very unstable to light and high temperatures.* It should be protected from air during all handling due to its extreme instability. [NTP, 1992]. Flammable and/or toxic gases are generated by the combination of alcohols with alkali metals, nitrides, and strong reducing agents. They react with oxoacids and carboxylic acids to form esters plus water. Oxidizing agents convert them to aldehydes or ketones. Alcohols exhibit both weak acid and weak base behavior. They may initiate the polymerization of isocyanates and epoxides. (NOAA REACTIVITY, 2007)


Exposure to light and high temps causes THC to break down into isomers cannabidinol and cannabidiol. So, does the plant lose potency while growing? It must!



> I'm trying to wrap my head around something that I understand to be fat (lipid) soluble basically behaving like a volatile ester. And, of course, there is the disconcerting notion that a warm day could basically ruin the dankness one has worked so hard to achieve.


Cannabis resin (or at least some components of it) is indeed volatile and is also soluble in alcohols and fats, similar to lipids. 



> Also, am I damaging my plants by handling them when I inspect them for damage, bugs, and so on? I handle them the way I do animals and children (but no spit).


Whenever you get some sticky resin on you, it stands to reason that it's no longer on the buds.


----------



## GoodFriend (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Nope, not for a minute. I couldn't make any sort of profit..,


how bout for a friend half way round the globe then  

lol


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

I note this passage in the gubmint bit:



> It should be protected from air during all handling due to its extreme instability. [NTP, 1992].


That's something that I can't figure a way around. When you dry buds, air is what's carrying the water away. The best way to dry then appears to be the way that does so the most quickly so that buds can then be stored in airtight containers ASAP to reduce exposure to air. Vacuum packing in a home food sealer sounds like a plus


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 24, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> 29C isn't all that hot, that's a nice day (for those who can't/don't convert, that's just under 85F). So, what you're saying is that on really warm days our buds' potency is breaking down?
> What about that of plants out in the sun immediately before harvest?
> Can you explain the breakdown that occurs at such a low temperature (you've mentioned this temp a couple of times), or maybe point me in a direction for searching?
> 
> ...



i'm up in the air at this point. my buddy was drying 3 lbs of indoor in 3 days using dehumidifiers and heaters. he kept the room in the 70 - 80's with the humidity down below 20. when you went to break a bud up it turned to powder. it was right after that that i got the burr in my ass. my buddy still dries it a little too fast but i get it from him before it's crispy and cure it myself. it turns out really nice. he's more a "grower" than a "smoker" so he just doesn't get it. i took it out on Al pretty hard back then. i hope somewhere i've apologized. i'm sorry Al.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> how bout for a friend half way round the globe then


The shipping cost alone would be prohibitive, you'd not see much change from $60-80.

C'mon, you can do this. Just a bit of creative dorking around with power tools. Manly stuff.


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Here's a bit from the US Gubmint:
> 
> Exposure to light and high temps causes THC to break down into isomers cannabidinol and cannabidiol. So, does the plant lose potency while growing? It must!
> 
> ...


That's one of the most comprehensive answers.. that's far more comprehensive than I expected. If I could hit you again I would. Damn.. so it IS a volatile ester!

My fingers are never sticky unless I've pinched off dying leaves, and then I only pinch the leaf. I do sometimes get a faint scent on them, but clearly, even the warmth of my hands would cause at least a partial breakdown. Damn.

I've learned so much today! Someone rep Al.B. for me, would ya?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i'm up in the air at this point. my buddy was drying 3 lbs of indoor in 3 days using dehumidifiers and heaters. he kept the room in the 70 - 80's with the humidity down below 20. when you went to break a bud up it turned to powder.


Would have worked if he had not left the buds in there too damn long. If he had taken them out while the stems were still a little bendy and chucked them in a tupperware for a day, all would have been well with no crunchiness. 



> i hope somewhere i've apologized. i'm sorry Al.


You just did.  No worries, never stressed me.


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 24, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i'm up in the air at this point. my buddy was drying 3 lbs of indoor in 3 days using dehumidifiers and heaters. he kept the room in the 70 - 80's with the humidity down below 20. when you went to break a bud up it turned to powder. it was right after that that i got the burr in my ass. my buddy still dries it a little too fast but i get it from him before it's crispy and cure it myself. it turns out really nice. he's more a "grower" than a "smoker" so he just doesn't get it. i took it out on Al pretty hard back then. i hope somewhere i've apologized. i'm sorry Al.


And this is something I'm curious about when I get an ounce of what start out as super sticky buds, and after a few weeks they, too, crumble (even when being kept in Mason jars). Then there's also the issue of immediate gratification, because, let's face it, when confronted with tasty, smokable-looking buds, WHO wants to wait??

If you didn't before, you got it now and I'm sure he saw it. I'll have to go back to see where you got on him.

I haven't done any searching because this thought only just popped into my head, but is there a way to rehydrate buds that are too dry so they _don't_ crumble into dust? I'm thinking along the lines of a piece of apple in the brown sugar kind of thing, but after going through these links Al gave us, it's clear it's not such a simple thing as that.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 24, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> And this is something I'm curious about when I get an ounce of what start out as super sticky buds, and after a few weeks they, too, crumble (even when being kept in Mason jars). Then there's also the issue of immediate gratification, because, let's face it, when confronted with tasty, smokable-looking buds, WHO wants to wait??
> 
> If you didn't before, you got it now and I'm sure he saw it. I'll have to go back to see where you got on him.
> 
> I haven't done any searching because this thought only just popped into my head, but is there a way to rehydrate buds that are too dry so they _don't_ crumble into dust? I'm thinking along the lines of a piece of apple in the brown sugar kind of thing, but after going through these links Al gave us, it's clear it's not such a simple thing as that.



use fresh fan leaves.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 24, 2008)

i have some bud here that is from last year. it's hella cured. it has some type of moisture in it because it "tears". like fresh tobacco. it doesn't crumble but it is dry. kinda hard to explain. even if i let it sit out it still doesn't get crispy. i'd have to leave it in the sun or something. it smells like dust until you break a bud open then the smell explodes out of it.


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 24, 2008)

Really? Guess I better get those clones a-growin', eh? You're not shittin' me, are you? I could be very gullible about some things.


----------



## GoodFriend (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> C'mon, you can do this. Just a bit of creative dorking around with power tools. Manly stuff.


lol... if only you knew... i have a hammer and a screw driver and that's about it for tools... haha... well a few razor blades and whatnot...

and it was hard enough for me to pay the 100 bucks for my new fan... most money i've spent on any one piece of grow equipment... heh...

but hell, i'm in the friggin desert, 20% RH isn't too hard for me to come by... and the temps are a breeze (actually it'd be keeping it cool that would be the problem)

i love the bud dryer though, i'm sure eventually i'll rig up something not nearly as well put together, but it'll be something all the same.. haha


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 24, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i have some bud here that is from last year. it's hella cured. it has some type of moisture in it because it "tears". like fresh tobacco. it doesn't crumble but it is dry. kinda hard to explain. even if i let it sit out it still doesn't get crispy. i'd have to leave it in the sun or something. it smells like dust until you break a bud open then the smell explodes out of it.


Dave rolls his own ciggies, I know EXACTLY what you mean about (good) fresh tobacco. So.. how does one cure the bud so it retains those properties? Or is that as much a function of the strain/plant itself as potency is?


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> When you dry buds, air is what's carrying the water away.


Hang on, I just solved that problem.  

Build a dryer from a totally airtight box using a modified dehumidifier to remove water. The cold coil from the dehumidifier (or small aircon unit) would go inside the box and have a circ fan to move the atmosphere in the box around... but _*here's*_ the trick. 

The atmosphere should be nitrogen from a tank, easily available from welding supply houses. It is oxygen in air which damages potency, so we just get rid of it and replace it with 100% nitrogen gas. The nitrogen is constantly recycled within the box, picking up water molecules off the buds and condensing them on the cold coil. _Voilà_, no oxidation. 

Lotttttta work. Wonder if it's worth it.


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Hang on, I just solved that problem.
> 
> Build a dryer from a totally airtight box using a modified dehumidifier to remove water. The cold coil from the dehumidifier (or small aircon unit) would go inside the box and have a circ fan to move the atmosphere in the box around... but _*here's*_ the trick.
> 
> ...


Hold on! I've got a link to a supply house for you, spoonfed to me by one MisterNiceGuy.
American Science & Surplus : Items Just Off the Truck


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 24, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Dave rolls his own ciggies, I know EXACTLY what you mean about (good) fresh tobacco. So.. how does one cure the bud so it retains those properties? Or is that as much a function of the strain/plant itself as potency is?


i let it dry until it's crispy but the stems still bend then i jar it and hide it. open it once a month or so to steal a nuggie out.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 24, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i let it dry until it's crispy but the stems still bend then i jar it and hide it. open it once a month or so to steal a nuggie out.


Is it stealing if it's your own stash, though?


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 24, 2008)

i've read that book, which i think may have since been edited, where it says to jar your weed up wet. you let it dry for a day then put it in a jar. you watch the jar very close. when you see moisture form on the inside you open the jar and air it out until it dries. then seal it again and repeat. you have to open it every couple hours the first few days. i did this once with about 6 ounces and it turned out really good. if you forget and miss a few hours and things are right/wrong, your bud will melt and rot. like leaving a head of lettuce in the car on a hot day. but that's a whole other thread.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 24, 2008)

Hhhm... (scratching chin thoughtfully) Permeable membrane.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Hold on! I've got a link to a supply house for you, spoonfed to me by one MisterNiceGuy.
> American Science & Surplus : Items Just Off the Truck


*sigh* a woman after my own heart... when I was a kid, I luuuuuved Edmund Scientific, a similar joint back then, bunch of shite now. Thanks for that


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Hhhm... (scratching chin thoughtfully) Permeable membrane.


posssssibly... _one way_ permeable.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

oh yeah, someone mentioned a Peltier Effect dehumidifier to me once, very cheap, maybe $80, he's building a dryer with one. Ideal candidate for the nitrogen atmosphere dryer.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 24, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> posssssibly... _one way_ permeable.


Yeah! You see where I'm headed. 

Btw, I'm reading through that chemical safety sheet link you provided, and some of the stuff in there is pretty funny. Like this:


> *Air & Water Reactions*
> Slightly soluble in water.
> 
> *Fire Hazard*
> ...


Coma...? Ok, I guess I can't expect them to say, "Exceeding dankness may lock victim onto couch." 
And, ya think? "probably combustible"? 

As I recollect, pure N doesn't hold much water vapor at all, does it?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 25, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Coma...? Ok, I guess I can't expect them to say, "Exceeding dankness may lock victim onto couch."


Yeah, hilarious!



> And, ya think? "probably combustible"?


'probably' isn't a term you often see in an MSDS, is it? 



> As I recollect, pure N doesn't hold much water vapor at all, does it?


Good question. I'll look into that. 

I would have thought that the mechanism of removing water molecules from something by evaporation was a mechanical process, something of an emulsion of gases as opposed to a solution. 

However, an alternative which I _*know*_ doesn't have any trouble picking up water vapour would be CO2, if dry ice vapour is anything to go by.


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 25, 2008)

That's a good question. I have a friend who's a chem prof./researcher at UCSC, I should ask him. He'll roll his eyes for such a basic question (he runs a lab studying RNA), but he knows what I'm on about.


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 25, 2008)

heh, yeah, it may be a bit like asking a brain surgeon to carve a turkey, but if that person isn't too annoyed, you may get some good data without working too hard.


----------



## SmellsLikeLemonz (Sep 26, 2008)

i currently hang dry in a closet w 1 circ fan, it takes 3-7 days depending on strain/amount of plants in there. (temp ranges 74-85) 

I have tried the following methods,.. and yes im a very impatient person who only wanted to take something right off a plant and put it in a bowl.... but dont we all?... 

Microwave paper towel method barely worked and tasted funny, also makes it kinda smell like whatever you microwaved last ... eww easy mac + cannibis =bad

Oven method, Worked alright, hard to monitor crispiness, best to check every few minutes. at 170 degrees, best to vape or roll.

Volcano method (best method I have found (pending a thread)) I just set my Volcano digit to 170 F and carefully break it into pebble sized nuglets in an insanely phat bowl (which shrinks to about a third of the size by the time i am done) i empty it into my hand a few times over the course of 5-10 minutes of the volcano being on, and i put it back in in a diffirent position.... the lower the temp (yet longer) the better smelling and tasting the result. 
anything over 180 leaves a weird spincachy smell, its always better just to turn the volcano up to 355 and vape it after drying it because it tastes much better than smoking it, but smoking it yeilds pleasant results but not nearly as nice as a full 3-5 day dry in a closet.

.... i do understand that this method does require you actually own a volcano digit, (i think setting 2.5 on the analog one would be relative to what you want) which probably makes it the worlds most expensive bud dryer but this is assuming you have already made such a plunge .

tower fan method, hang a few branches from the top of a tower fan, usually takes a couple days depending on humidity and temp obviously. better smell than microwave, oven, volcano etc, but needs to be checked every few hours unles you dont mind finding it extra crispy one day 


i have to say that what al b fuct is talking about shouldnt be considered quick drying as i know just by reading a description of it that it is not anything like other quick drying methods uses air at 85 Degrees which is not unusual for a hot day in a closet and does not damage thc! this is more of a "relatively fast" dryer

I have to say im not a big curing guy, i do agree the the smell becomes more saturated after it sits in a jar for a longer period of time, but thc is thc, it doesnt magically harden and multiply, the effect is the same, the medicinal quality is not diffirent, its like an aged chese, yeah you can just barely tell the diffirence, but was it really worth waiting the X years to get that small small change in smell taste? I usually cure for a few days and then cure over the course of the time it is being consumed. but i would never back someone saying a multiple week cure is necessary or worth it.

I think its also a good portion about for how LONG you allow them to dry, in ANY situation, As al b fuct said earlier in this thread, if fdd's freind was quick"er" drying and it came out crumbly than obviously he wasnt keeping good enough tabs on how dry his crop was! 

I have harvested buds that i have been lucky enough to check on just at that point mentioned earlier in the thread, Not crumbly, not stretchy wet, but it tears in a nice squishy way and still has alot of smell left in it, after only 1 day the whole jar stank as if it had been cured for a much longer period of time.


It would be nice if nature just did the job for us and cannibis had a light pattern that made it just kill itself, drink all the water out of its system, let all the branches sag (so the leaves cover some nugs from light) and the buds just started falling off like apples when they were done....mmmm.... apples...


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

SmellsLikeLemonz said:


> this is more of a "relatively fast" dryer


hah, I spose it is. 

Depends on your point of view, really; I could not find a way of drying more quickly without doing something that would damage potency, ie temps above 29C, so my dryer is as 'quick' as the job can be done without compromising quality. 

But I'll live with 'relatively fast.'


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Ok, the vapor that comes off of dry ice is CO2. This is why it falls, as CO2 is definitely heavier than air. I suspected as much, but didn't want to make a definitive statement.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Lemonz, I am a fan of cheese (seriously, I LOVE cheese), and I do notice the differences between young and old cheeses.


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## Hydrotech364 (Sep 26, 2008)

*It also displaces oxygen seamaiden,so you can suffocate if you have a room full of the co2.Alot of fire fighters die every year because of this.*


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## fdd2blk (Sep 26, 2008)

i used to work with liquid nitrogen. i would spend all day filling doers. if you had a leak in one and didn't know it and it was in an enclosed room and you walk in, you can die before you know it.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

hydrotech364 said:


> *It also displaces oxygen seamaiden,so you can suffocate if you have a room full of the co2.Alot of fire fighters die every year because of this.*


It displaces regular air, too. Do you remember Lake Nyos, in Africa? Lemme find us a link here. This shit blew me away, especially seeing the dead foliage in the CO2 sinks.

Lake Nyos: plan for degassing lakes Nyos and Monoun, Cameroon. Gas disaster at Nyos: mitigation of a natural hazard at Nyos.
Savage Planet: Volcanic Killers-Degassing Lake Nyos

Yeah, don't bend over.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Ok, the vapor that comes off of dry ice is CO2. This is why it falls, as CO2 is definitely heavier than air. I suspected as much, but didn't want to make a definitive statement.


 Well, that much we knew, but CO2 fog, being very cold, appears to cause some condensation of atmospheric humidity. CO2 fog thus seems to wet anything it touches. We were on the topic of the water holding capacity of N vs something else and it simply occurred to me that the last time I used CO2 fog as a theatrical effect, the floors and objects on it collected some of this condensed moisture. Seems to me that the white, visible element of a CO2 fog is actually water vapour as CO2 is itself odourless and colourless. 



hydrotech364 said:


> *It also displaces oxygen seamaiden,so you can suffocate if you have a room full of the co2.Alot of fire fighters die every year because of this.*


 Humans can tolerate 30,000ppm for 15 mins without a respirator. Firefighters usually have a breathing apparatus when on the fireground, so I would be very interested to see actuarial data on firefighter deaths from a CO2 atmosphere.



fdd2blk said:


> i used to work with liquid nitrogen. i would spend all day filling doers.


That'd be 'Dewars' 



> if you had a leak in one and didn't know it and it was in an enclosed room and you walk in, you can die before you know it.


Sure, I can see that kind of hazard with any odourless, colourless gas in a confined space. 



Seamaiden said:


> (CO2) displaces regular air, too.


Of course it can.

However, to round this up back on topic (ha!) the nitrogen dryer I proposed a cpl pages back would be a sealed box of ~30-40L or so in volume- I was _*not *_suggesting filling a room with N or CO2!


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## fdd2blk (Sep 26, 2008)

do her? i hardly even know her. lol


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

humour!! ark ark ark


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

My friend thinks that the water vapor "locked" onto the CO2 vapor would be negligible. But, he mentioned what you did, the... oh jeez, what did he call it? Interface I think, he said that any water held in the air would be brought out via condensation due to the cold. I don't think I'm explaining it well, but I also think that you're already ahead of me on the chemistry/physical reactions involved.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 26, 2008)

Freeze drying - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

freeze dryers

freeze drying at home


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Ok, I can say "cryodessication", but the other word gets me tongue-tied, lyophilization. You're puttin' ideas into my head now. You and Al.

Hey! I practiced and now I can say it.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Hey! Your third link explains the shrinking ice cubes in a frost-free freezer, yes? Or am I misunderstanding how it works?


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> My friend thinks that the water vapor "locked" onto the CO2 vapor would be negligible. But, he mentioned what you did, the... oh jeez, what did he call it? Interface I think, he said that any water held in the air would be brought out via condensation due to the cold.


 Well, all we need is some sort of gaseous medium that will shift the water molecules off the buds. Air manages it and it is 70-odd % N.



fdd2blk said:


> Freeze drying - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> freeze dryers
> 
> freeze drying at home


 Thanks for the linkage mon. I think freeze drying might be hard to control, but it's definitely worth some consideration. 



Seamaiden said:


> Ok, I can say "cryodessication", but the other word gets me tongue-tied, lyophilization.


cc..cryo...c..ccc. oh, fuck. 



Seamaiden said:


> Hey! Your third link explains the shrinking ice cubes in a frost-free freezer, yes? Or am I misunderstanding how it works?


Yep, water sublimes!


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 26, 2008)

i've never evn thought of freeze drying. using dry ice maybe? or liquid nitrogen. just dip it and be done with it.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Wouldn't liquid N make it super crumbly, though? I'm thinking of how efficient our new LG fridge is, and I can set the freezer to.. jeez, I think something like -24F. That's some cold (I keep it at 7F, that's plenty cold enough for home).


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Cryodessication--CRY-oh-DES-i-KAY-shun.  The other one has a lot of "L's".


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## fdd2blk (Sep 26, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Wouldn't liquid N make it super crumbly, though? I'm thinking of how efficient our new LG fridge is, and I can set the freezer to.. jeez, I think something like -24F. That's some cold (I keep it at 7F, that's plenty cold enough for home).


get on it.


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

I'd be worried about freezing wet buds, to be true. Water expands when frozen, breaking the cell walls, which is what causes leaf veg to go floppy when frozen.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

That's a very good point, Al. With freeze-drying (I'm still reading fdd's Wiki, and yours), doesn't it happen fast enough that the water doesn't expand so much to cause that effect? The LG has a quick freeze feature, but I haven't used it yet. I'm a big fan of IQF chicken and other foods for quick dinners, but again, that probably requires one of those machines. I can't even find a price on them, you have to email for a quote. That tells me, "If you gotta ask, ya can't afford it."


fdd2blk said:


> get on it.


D'OH! I am in need of mature buds. None of the girls is ready just yet, nor is Time Out Tranny. I did take some pix, but to me they're extremely unimpressive.

Send me a fresh bud and I'll be more than happy to throw it in my freezer. Everyone tells you that, don't they? Oh, hey, fdd! Need any help smokin' that up? Yeah. Of course you don't. 

You ever fix that bong?


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 26, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I'd be worried about freezing wet buds, to be true. Water expands when frozen, breaking the cell walls, which is what causes leaf veg to go floppy when frozen.


all your trichs would burst and melt together. when it was all done it would be glazed.  maybe?


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

I'm not sure there's enough water in the resin trichs to cause that effect, but I am fairly confident that a wet bud that was frozen then thawed would come out a floppy mess, like frozen then thawed spinach.


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## GoodFriend (Sep 26, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I'm not sure there's enough water in the resin trichs to cause that effect, but I am fairly confident that a wet bud that was frozen then thawed would come out a floppy mess, like frozen then thawed spinach.



... you have a freezer don't you?

you have fresh bud every 2 weeks...

in fact i bet you have some thats not dry now

pop it in the ice box... let us know in a few days


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

I'm not sure how the process of freeze drying actually works, but I'm confident there's more to it than chucking something in a freezer. The moisture's got to go somewhere and there's not a lot of air volume in a typical home freezer to take it away and keep it away from the item you're freeze-drying.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 27, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I'm not sure how the process of freeze drying actually works, but I'm confident there's more to it than chucking something in a freezer. The moisture's got to go somewhere and there's not a lot of air volume in a typical home freezer to take it away and keep it away from the item you're freeze-drying.


i've pulled some meat out of the freezer that was burnt pretty bad. all grey and dry.

you have to leave it open to the air. just hang it from a rack in the freezer.


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## GoodFriend (Sep 27, 2008)

oh... we're talking about freeze drying?
yeah no completely different


... my pops works for an herbal remedy company (he's a naturopathic doc), and the companies -big- thing is freeze dried herbs in capsul form... and there's all sorts of neat things about that...

one of the neatest being that they've started making something they call "new water" (or maybe nu-water, but that's just to be fancy i think)... which is basically the water that's extrapolated from whatever it is they are freeze drying... its undamaged, clean water that is left with a small amount of the essence from which it came.... real interesting stuff...

plus i guess there are benefits to imbibing herbs that are freeze dried... something to do with how their chemical makeup remains blah blah blah i dunno i'd really have to research it more to tell ya anything real important about it... but i think freeze dried mj could probably make a fairly large impact on the mmj scene...


maybe
or not

??


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 28, 2008)

The thing with freeze-drying, and using a home freezer, from what I've read of the links and information both men have provided here, is the removal of water from the tissues _before_ it has a chance to become crystallized and do that damage. I'm afraid to email for a quote on one of those lyophilizing thangs. LIE-oh-FIL-ih-ZAY-shun. That's how I think it's pronounced.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 28, 2008)

Maybe the answer is to not 'freeze' dry but merely 'cool' dry. Perhaps keep temp at 1-2C with a lot of air circ?

Dunno, but I can't test this one. My housemate *flatly *vetoed the idea of trying to do this in our kitchen fridge!


----------



## GoodFriend (Sep 28, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Dunno, but I can't test this one. My housemate *flatly *vetoed the idea of trying to do this in our kitchen fridge!


so go sell an ounce or two and by a seperate freezer just for pot freezing!


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 28, 2008)

heh, a decent fridge costs about $1100 around here, more than a couple oz, but I appreciate your thought.


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## GoodFriend (Sep 28, 2008)

fine.... a qp

you'll have that within 2 weeks =]

any other 'scueses?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 29, 2008)

yeah, nowhere to put another fridge.


----------



## GoodFriend (Sep 29, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> yeah, nowhere to put another fridge.


ugh do i have to do all the thinking for ya!?

wait why are we trying freezdrying??? 3-4 days is too long a wait?

sorry, i forgot how we got to this point in the discussion, i know, good job me!


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 29, 2008)

Well, we kinds went down the rosy garden path of what causes there are of THC breakdown into isomers CBD & CBN, got on a nitrogen atmosphere bud dryer, then got sidetracked on freeze drying...


----------



## GoodFriend (Sep 29, 2008)

oh right right right...


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 29, 2008)

fuckin' stoners, can't stay on topic fer nuts.


----------



## cHiEf04grwer (Sep 30, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> no thank you 20 years of tried and true methods are enough for me.
> 
> i'm in no hurry. do they quick dry fine cigars.
> 
> ...


I completely agree, i just harvested 4 branches off one plant and got 1.75 Oz on it. So after the curing is over probably around 1 - 1.25 oz. I used the FDD harvestin Method and i noticed after i trimmed the buds off the stalk and Mason Jar'd them, after 4-5 days even they started to take a completely different appearence, in a good way of course...


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 30, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> wait why are we trying freezdrying??? 3-4 days is too long a wait?
> 
> sorry, i forgot how we got to this point in the discussion, i know, good job me!


Yes. Immediate gratification is the goal here. And I want some of what you're smoking. My memory actually gets worse when I'm dry (as I am, with the exceptions of the girls I'm sampling so I can decide who gets to be a mom and who gets to die).


Al B. Fuct said:


> Well, we kinds went down the rosy garden path of what causes there are of THC breakdown into isomers CBD & CBN, got on a nitrogen atmosphere bud dryer, then got sidetracked on freeze drying...


ACK! I just had another idea! (I'm worse than Lucille Ball, and get into just as much trouble.)

Those packets of silicon that are used to keep electronics parts and the like dry. I bet those latch onto HELLA water molecules, and could speed drying even more, or....? Yeah? You with me here? Gotta Google.


----------



## MrFishy (Sep 30, 2008)

No, fine cigars cure slowly. Doesn't fine tobacco cure for a couple of years or more?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 30, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> I bet those latch onto HELLA water molecules, and could speed drying even more, or....? Yeah? You with me here? Gotta Google.


You're thinking of silica gel, which you can buy in tins from craft shops for drying flowers etc. It works pretty damn good for drying flowers!

pssssst- small Australianism hint, 'hella' is essentially synonymous with 'amazingly' i.e. 'hella good.' 



MrFishy said:


> No, fine cigars cure slowly. Doesn't fine tobacco cure for a couple of years or more?


You growing any tobacco? I'm not. 

THC breaks down not just with exposure to light and heat but time post harvest. Drying quicker is better for potency. Fresher weed is better weed.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 30, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> You're thinking of silica gel, which you can buy in tins from craft shops for drying flowers etc. It works pretty damn good for drying flowers!
> 
> pssssst- small Australianism hint, 'hella' is essentially synonymous with 'amazingly' i.e. 'hella good.'
> 
> ...



you're slipping now. my weed is not any less potent because it hangs for 5 days. 

there is a lot more to it than just THC. what about flavor? the green has to cure to bring out the oils in the plant. the oils, different then THC, are a lot of where your smells come from. there is even new studies showing that the smells alone can be beneficial; ie: aroma therapy. i feel the drying and curing process is more focused on smells and flavors. i've never considered potency when drying. it kinda is what it is. IMO. yes, of course, exposure will degrade THC, but i don't think it reacts like the sun on a vampire. it has to be long term exposure to air or light. or repeated exposure.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 30, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> you're slipping now. my weed is not any less potent because it hangs for 5 days.


Of course not, but the previous poster was talking about _years_ for curing tobacco, that's essentially what I was addressing. 



> yes, of course, exposure will degrade THC, but i don't think it reacts like the sun on a vampire. it has to be long term exposure to air or light. or repeated exposure.


I agree.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 30, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Of course not, but the previous poster was talking about _years_ for curing tobacco, that's essentially what I was addressing.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.



phew.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 30, 2008)

Dude, please don't stress! We're all on the same track here.


----------



## regrets (Sep 30, 2008)

I smell a pay-per view event here. Cage match no eye gauging, no below the belt FDD Vs. AL B may the highest one win. Now we just have to find a promoter.


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 30, 2008)

oh fer fuck's sake. I'm not fighting with anyone.


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## tonydash (Sep 30, 2008)

I am going for bag appeal / flavor / smell. 

I believe my bud will be naturally potent.

What do you guys suggest is the best way I should go about this process? 

1. Hang for 5 Days in shed.
2. Manicure them a bit more and place in mason jars.
3. wait. 

This is my first year growing so everything is new. The last thing I want to do is over-dry my buds. But I also realize the risk of mold with underdried buds. Where is a happy median, where I can be assured my buds will stink and be soft?


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## regrets (Sep 30, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> oh fer fuck's sake. I'm not fighting with anyone.


Your never going to win with an attitude like that. Maybe you just need a new coach?


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## fdd2blk (Sep 30, 2008)

you all are trippin'. i just sold 75 grams of bubble hash. i'm sitting on another 30. i have a truckload of dope in my backyard. i just bought pvc and plastic so i can cover my shit when it rains friday. i have an early pound and a half drying. i'm smoking samples of *'08 hijack*. i'm stoned and happier than ever. 

who's fighting?


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## GoodFriend (Sep 30, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> you all are trippin'. i just sold 75 grams of bubble hash. *i'm sitting on another 30*. i have a truckload of dope in my backyard. i just bought pvc and plastic so i can cover my shit when it rains friday. i have an early pound and a half drying. i'm smoking samples of *'08 hijack*. i'm stoned and happier than ever.
> 
> who's fighting?


might wanna get off that... it'll melt right quick with the body temps


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 30, 2008)

tonydash said:


> The last thing I want to do is over-dry my buds. But I also realize the risk of mold with underdried buds. Where is a happy median, where I can be assured my buds will stink and be soft?


Overdrying is not a terribly heinous crime. It's not hard to put some moisture back into buds, just a few ml of water on a paper towel, nested with the buds in an airtight container for a few hours will return buds to being pliant and springy. The biggest problem with overdry buds is their fragility in handling. 

I have from time to time left buds in my dryer a bit too long. I usually remove them when the outside of the buds are crispy dry but the stems are still flexible, then put them in an airtight container. The moisture wicks out from the middle of the bud and rehydrates the outer parts, takes about 24h. When I've stuffed that up, rehydrating isn't a big deal. 

It's a far greater sin to store buds in a sealed container which are not sufficiently dry to prevent mould. I'd err on the side of overdry because I can fix that. I can't fix mouldy buds.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 30, 2008)

mold really sucks. it's bad for your lungs. heat from smoking it does not kill it.


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## korvette1977 (Sep 30, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> you all are trippin'. i just sold 75 grams of bubble hash. i'm sitting on another 30. i have a truckload of dope in my backyard. i just bought pvc and plastic so i can cover my shit when it rains friday. i have an early pound and a half drying. i'm smoking samples of *'08 hijack*. i'm stoned and happier than ever.
> 
> who's fighting?




I want some hash ... And some Hijack.....................


I feel so alone .. Just me and the shitty purple kush


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 30, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> mold really sucks. it's bad for your lungs. heat from smoking it does not kill it.


I tend to disagree on that one. While it's utterly unpleasant to smoke mouldy buds, mould & fungi spores are very susceptible to destruction by heat and at temps far below the combustion temp of butane and burning veg matter. 

Moreover, the conditions required for mould & fungi to survive don't exist inside a living lung, so even if you manage to inhale some live spores, they're not going to live there long. 

If you want a lung infection, you're going to have to get it the old fashioned way, from bacteria or a virus.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 30, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> You're thinking of silica gel, which you can buy in tins from craft shops for drying flowers etc. It works pretty damn good for drying flowers!
> 
> pssssst- small Australianism hint, 'hella' is essentially synonymous with 'amazingly' i.e. 'hella good.'


I've only started using the term since moving to NorCal here, the kids taught me the term. In their usage it's more malleable, and can be added to almost anything for added emphasis. When I moved the new lingo was "mad crazy".  Now it's been hella days since I even remember using mad crazy talk like that. (gulp)

Yes, that's what I'm thinking of. Have you ever tried it? How do you think it might work for our desires?


> THC breaks down not just with exposure to light and heat but time post harvest. Drying quicker is better for potency. Fresher weed is better weed.


I have GOT to get my husband upstairs long enough to look at your diagrams. (Maybe I should try it along the lines of, "How would you like to come over to my place and see my etchings?" Too old? Corny?)


fdd2blk said:


> you all are trippin'. i just sold 75 grams of bubble hash. i'm sitting on another 30. i have a truckload of dope in my backyard. i just bought pvc and plastic so i can cover my shit when it rains friday. i have an early pound and a half drying. i'm smoking samples of *'08 hijack*. i'm stoned and happier than ever.
> 
> who's fighting?


Those who ain't smokin'? I'm trying my damnedest not to sample my girls too hard while I wait for SOMETHING to come in.

It's gonna rain Friday? I thought it was going to rain on me yesterday on my way to North Highlands. Kept watching the cars coming the other way for the signs. Fortunately nothing while I was out, but I was hoping for some of those clouds I saw dropping to actually hit our area. Hay nada.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 30, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> I've only started using the term since moving to NorCal here, the kids taught me the term. In their usage it's more malleable, and can be added to almost anything for added emphasis.


Oh yeah, there's some close cultural connections between Aus & California. Lots of Aus expats in SF & SoCal. Ya bastards got most of our good electronics engos roundabout 1998-2000, just before the techwreck. Those poor sods are all now working in Outback Steakhouses, impressing everyone with their accents.  

It's not uncommon to hear Australianisms voiced in very American accents in Cowlifornia. However, absent immersion in Australian culture, I can see how such terms could be 'corrupted' by ya _furriners_ as it were. 

Some of our exports, you really could do without. Mass plantings of eucalypts in SoCal do absolutely no good for your bushfire problems. 



> When I moved the new lingo was "mad crazy".  Now it's been hella days since I even remember using mad crazy talk like that. (gulp)


'MAD!' is a common Australianism among teens & 20somethings at the mo, i.e., after finding an unaccompanied teabag in the break room, "MAD! Free tea!!" 



> Yes, that's what I'm thinking of. Have you ever tried it? How do you think it might work for our desires?


I think the silica gel would stick to the resin on the buds and make a bit of a mess of things. You'd have to mechanically separate the buds from the silica gel crystals. Up to you how,



> I have GOT to get my husband upstairs long enough to look at your diagrams. (Maybe I should try it along the lines of, "How would you like to come over to my place and see my etchings?" Too old? Corny?)


Well, you might try that and some stilettos, fishnets & a garter belt. One of the two might work.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 30, 2008)

eucalyptus are used as wind blockers. they work great. if you drive around the country here you will see half mile long rows on the western side of all the farm houses. 

i've been saying "hella" since i moved to the bay area in 1985.


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## tonydash (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks for the advice AlB / fdd! 

Between you two, i dont think one can ever go wrong 

I will check on my buds everyday and start to cure them when the edges of the bud are dry and the stem is somewhat flexible.


also: is dry heat bad for drying buds? I don't think my shed is humid but small area near the roof where im drying is always hotter then outside because its a smaller area andthe shingles absorb heat? Its getting colder here in NY so i'm not really worried but during the day it can still get kinda hot in there.


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## GrowTech (Sep 30, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> eucalyptus are used as wind blockers. they work great. if you drive around the country here you will see half mile long rows on the western side of all the farm houses.
> 
> i've been saying "hella" since i moved to the bay area in 1985.




They do that everywhere in Ventura, and along the beach to separate beach homes from the winds.


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## GrowTech (Sep 30, 2008)

And my take, quick-dried is just as good as slow dried after the cure... So who gives a shit 

Whether you quick-dry it, or slow-dry it, the more important part would be efficient curing, and any possible methods of speeding curing up.


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 30, 2008)

Gum trees as windbreaks? Weird. They tend to have a tuft of leaf on top of a tall trunk. I wouldn't have thought they had the right aerodynamics. Huh.

They have one other *major *drawback...

 


They're full of highly flammable, volatile oils... and when hot enough, they have this eensy-weensy tendency to _*explode. *_

 

Nice to have a few of these around from time to time. 



Yep, it's an Erickson AirCrane... sounds like a cross between a 747 & a machine gun.

All images from my back yard.


----------



## fdd2blk (Sep 30, 2008)




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## NewGrowth (Sep 30, 2008)

Wow this thread grew quick!! Long read! Well I thought I would post my two cents:
I used to be a HUGE fan of slow hang drying buds mostly from info that I got from grow guides. I did it for a couple years when I was just growing a personal stash. However after working with perpetual harvest set-ups I found that it was just not feasible to have a bunch of bud literally hanging around for weeks at a time. I built a dryer similar to Al's minus the heat sink with a fan speed controller. It takes about 4 days to dry my bud in one of these. I have found that as long as the bud is not over dry and I have allowed the moisture to equalize after coming out of the dryer there is NO difference in taste/smoke compared to my slow hang dried bud. People that smoke my bud have never complained and never noticed the difference when I switched to the "fast" dry technique either.
In fact I just harvested my first outdoor grow and I built a larger version with a rubbermaid and a carbon filter and my buds are currently drying in it now and my room mates have no idea I have several pounds of bud drying in my room.


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## Al B. Fuct (Oct 1, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> gumtreepic


Dammmmmmn, they look like they grow a lot better over there than here!


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## fdd2blk (Oct 1, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Dammmmmmn, they look like they grow a lot better over there than here!



i love when i do a google image search and drag and drop an image onto this site, and then it suddenly disappears. are people monitoring their pics to see where they are being hacked to? "damn pot heads stole my gum tree pic." lolololol


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## GoodFriend (Oct 1, 2008)

i was wondering how al b quoted a message that had nothing there from you faded...


i love the smell of eucalyptus =]


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## fdd2blk (Oct 1, 2008)

in the time we have been on this thread, my weed has dried. lol


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## GoodFriend (Oct 1, 2008)

lovely!... ya high 'nough?


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## Seamaiden (Oct 1, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Some of our exports, you really could do without. Mass plantings of eucalypts in SoCal do absolutely no good for your bushfire problems.


 Good Christ you've got that right. They tend to come down in high winds, too. Though there are some really pretty species that also smell just wonderful, very citrus-y. And I had a 'tiel for a few years who loved nibbling on the branches.


Al B. Fuct said:


> I think the silica gel would stick to the resin on the buds and make a bit of a mess of things. You'd have to mechanically separate the buds from the silica gel crystals. Up to you how,


 Ahhh.. ok, gotcha. Then I've got to get that dryer built. He's gone through his brewing equipment and the lady is getting a lovely peach hefeweizen by Thanksgiving.  I told him, "Sweetheart, I NEED that bud dryer!" And now he's ready to put his mind to it.


Al B. Fuct said:


> Well, you might try that and some stilettos, fishnets & a garter belt. One of the two might work.


 This man is not so easily manipulated (I've tried).  It worked with all the others quite well, too, so imagine my dismay when I discovered his ability to resist the feminine wiles. However, just start talking politics and policy with him, and he's putty in my hands. 


NewGrowth said:


> Wow this thread grew quick!! Long read! Well I thought I would post my two cents:
> I used to be a HUGE fan of slow hang drying buds mostly from info that I got from grow guides. I did it for a couple years when I was just growing a personal stash. However after working with perpetual harvest set-ups I found that it was just not feasible to have a bunch of bud literally hanging around for weeks at a time. I built a dryer similar to Al's minus the heat sink with a fan speed controller. It takes about 4 days to dry my bud in one of these. I have found that as long as the bud is not over dry and I have allowed the moisture to equalize after coming out of the dryer there is NO difference in taste/smoke compared to my slow hang dried bud. People that smoke my bud have never complained and never noticed the difference when I switched to the "fast" dry technique either.
> In fact I just harvested my first outdoor grow and I built a larger version with a rubbermaid and a carbon filter and my buds are currently drying in it now and my room mates have no idea I have several pounds of bud drying in my room.


Really? Sans heat sink gives you a 4 day drying time? Didn't you say you're in the Rockies? Would it be safe to assume that the Rockies are about as dry as the western scarp of the Sierra Nevadas? (This dry air bungles the fuck out of my nose lately, too, it hurts.) 


GOD I miss tropical air!



fdd2blk said:


> in the time we have been on this thread, my weed has dried. lol


Considering the initial post date of this thread, I'm gonna guess at least a couple of crops have dried.


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## NotMine (Oct 1, 2008)

dry air sucks...


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## Seamaiden (Oct 1, 2008)

NotMine said:


> dry air sucks...


So does my Dyson. 

Yeah, you're right. And I have a bunch of humidifiers in the house but they're loud and just too small to even really make a dent unless I close myself up in a smaller room.


----------



## tonydash (Oct 1, 2008)

NotMine said:


> dry air sucks...



what do you mean? are you adressing my question on the other page?


i was wondering if dry heat is bad for drying buds... (drying in a shed)


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 1, 2008)

tonydash said:


> what do you mean? are you adressing my question on the other page?
> 
> 
> i was wondering if dry heat is bad for drying buds... (drying in a shed)


This may be the wrong thread, but I believe that Al B. answered the heat question very thoroughly. THC is a volatile ester. As such it degrades at relatively low temperatures, as he backed up 29C (84.5F) is that point at which degradation occurs. I hope this helps answer your question, because to me it means that dry WARMTH is alright, but once it hits 85F you're breaking down that lovely THC that makes us feel soooooo groovy.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 1, 2008)

yeh, wot she said.


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## GrowTech (Oct 1, 2008)

makes me feel all growvy


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## tonydash (Oct 1, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> This may be the wrong thread, but I believe that Al B. answered the heat question very thoroughly. THC is a volatile ester. As such it degrades at relatively low temperatures, as he backed up 29C (84.5F) is that point at which degradation occurs. I hope this helps answer your question, because to me it means that dry WARMTH is alright, but once it hits 85F you're breaking down that lovely THC that makes us feel soooooo groovy.



Ahhhh 

Yeah, Al was the first to address my post but I guess I just need reassurance or a more direct answer. I doubt the shed will get above 75-80 even in the hieght of the day now. Thanks SeaMaiden

Now I have to finish making my dry box.  What type of string / rope do you guys use or prefer?


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 1, 2008)

In one of fdd's photos it looked like plain old string to me. I think it was pink. Pink string, that's fdd's thing. 


GrowTech said:


> makes me feel all growvy


Groovy, growvy, it all feels good, right? I need somethin' to groove on lately. 
 <-- using my favorite method.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 1, 2008)

tonydash said:


> Now I have to finish making my dry box.  What type of string / rope do you guys use or prefer?


The wiremesh sort.


----------



## Jointsmith (Oct 2, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> This may be the wrong thread, but I believe that Al B. answered the heat question very thoroughly. THC is a volatile ester. As such it degrades at relatively low temperatures, as he backed up 29C (84.5F) is that point at which degradation occurs. I hope this helps answer your question, because to me it means that dry WARMTH is alright, but once it hits 85F you're breaking down that lovely THC that makes us feel soooooo groovy.


Sorry but could someone direct me to the thread where Al B. 'answer's the heat question thoroughly'?

Cheers

JS


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## Al B. Fuct (Oct 2, 2008)

She's probably talking about this one: https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/8973-bud-dryer-manicured-smoke-3-a.html


----------



## Jointsmith (Oct 2, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> She's probably talking about this one: https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/8973-bud-dryer-manicured-smoke-3-a.html


Cheers for that Al, however I can't seem to find the answer I'm loking for in that thread.

What's your source for THC starting to breakdown at 29%C?

Peace

JS


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 2, 2008)

I'm looking for a reference on that, my bookmarked link has gone dead. 

On the hunt, I've found:

Lycaeum > Leda > The precise determination of tetrahydrocannabinol in marihuana and hashish



> * Some results with the internal standard method*
> 
> Sampling error - twenty portions, each weighing 900 mg., were taken from a lot of carefully mixed "manicured" marihuana.2 The coefficient of variation, due to sampling, for the tetrahydrocannabinol content, was found to be 2.8 per cent. At the 2 per cent tetrahydrocannabinol level this would amount to an uncertainty (95 per cent probability) due to sampling of ±0.11 per cent tetrahydrocanabinol.
> 
> ...


see also:

Chemical Stabilization of a ?9-Tetrahydrocannabinol Prodrug in Polymeric Matrix Systems Produced by a Hot-melt Method: Role of Microenvironment pH

still looking for the 29C reference.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 2, 2008)

This is kinda interesting. The patient information sheet provided with the commercialised cannabis pill medication Marinol sez:


> STORAGE CONDITIONS
> MARINOL® (Dronabinol) Capsules should be packaged in a well-closed container and stored in a cool environment between 8° and 15°C (46° and 59°F) and alternatively could be stored in a refrigerator. Protect from freezing.


----------



## Jointsmith (Oct 2, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I'm looking for a reference on that, my bookmarked link has gone dead.
> 
> On the hunt, I've found:
> 
> ...


Interesting stuff, thanks for the links.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 2, 2008)

also, a THC in methanol test solution:

T8783 &#916;9-Tetrahydrocannabinol-d3 methanol solution



> T8783
> Sigma *&#916;9-Tetrahydrocannabinol-d3 *
> 
> *methanol solution *
> ...


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 2, 2008)

The search function seems to be kludged, or I'd have found that discussion. I think that one of us quoted the text from that link and now I can't even remember what the damn site was.


----------



## tonydash (Oct 2, 2008)

curious...

i have a small nug I had to harvest early bc of budrot. I dried the bud for 3 days in my closet and it is ready to be cured.

I didn't buy mason jars yet, but I plan to. *Can I cure this small amount of bud in a baggie?* i figure its essentially the same thing....air tight?


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 2, 2008)

My son actually uses paper grocery bags. His bud smokes _very_ well, and he grows some extreme dankness (actually, some of it's too dank for his mom).


----------



## tonydash (Oct 2, 2008)

paper grocery bags for curing? i thought it had to be air "tight". cool though.

anyways, i jsut went to check on her and i found a large spot of budrot on 1 big bud. i removed it and harvested the branch. im going to finish making my dry box and hang it. I'm probably going to harvest the whole plant tomorrow....getting very cold now and has been raining on and off 3 days in a row....


here are some pics, let me know what you think!


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 2, 2008)

I don't know if it's so much a need to be air tight as it is that curing is a process that allows the moisture levels to equalize throughout the product. It's probably a lot easier to control that, especially in a really dry environment, using something like mason jars. Of course, this is just based on everything I'm reading and the brains I've been picking (better'n pickin' your nose!).

And I think that when it's ready I would gladly sample some of that bud of yours.  And share (what's left of) mine, of course.


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 3, 2008)

Are you sure he doesnt dry them in paper bags then cure them in jars? Thats what works best for me, hang drying dries them out too fast.


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 3, 2008)

hom36rown said:


> Are you sure he doesnt dry them in paper bags then cure them in jars? Thats what works best for me, hang drying dries them out too fast.


Yes, I questioned him very closely about his process. He's been growing for a couple of years now and has a few under his belt, whereas this is my first that I've gotten this far along.

First he hangs them dry until the stems _just_ snap, maybe not even quite "snappy". Then they go into a paper bag. He doesn't use anything to get an up-close look at trichs, either, he just eyeballs the shit.


----------



## tonydash (Oct 3, 2008)

i'm almost there! went and cut about 50% of the buds off, all from the bottom. I left the main cola and about 6-7 big branches near the top. 

I did some small manicuring, hung them by strings in box and put them in their drying spot. It's a huge TV box and it is already filled with branches. Tomorrow I will manicure them nicely so it is just nugs  

will upload pics tomorrow.... i'm extremely satisfied with the turnout thus far for my first grow. I give a lot of thanks to all you vets who helped me a long the way with all my newbness  Put a lot of love into this grow and its paying off!


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 3, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Yes, I questioned him very closely about his process. He's been growing for a couple of years now and has a few under his belt, whereas this is my first that I've gotten this far along.
> 
> First he hangs them dry until the stems _just_ snap, maybe not even quite "snappy". Then they go into a paper bag. He doesn't use anything to get an up-close look at trichs, either, he just eyeballs the shit.


Do his buds feel really dry?


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 3, 2008)

My first couple harvest I air dried, then threw in jars, and they felt too dry so I threw a pice of lettuce in the jars which made them moist agian but I think it gave it a wierd taste too


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 3, 2008)

Hey, Tony, nice. I wish I could say the same for my first grow, but something is better than nothing. You're gonna post when you're completely blazed of your first homegrown buds, right?


hom36rown said:


> Does his bud feel really dry?


No, it sure doesn't. It's always sticky, really really sticky. It has to be put through a grinder if you want it to break apart like drier buds, but then it fluffs up. I'm tellin' you, this kid's got it down, and I can't get him to come up to help advise me. I mean, who _better_ than you're own kid, right?


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 3, 2008)

so at no point does he put them in jars? or does he transfer to jars after a certain amount of time in the bag?


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## tonydash (Oct 3, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Hey, Tony, nice. I wish I could say the same for my first grow, but something is better than nothing. You're gonna post when you're completely blazed of your first homegrown buds, right?



oh, for sure 

I've already quicked dried a small bud that wasn't even ready yet and I couldn't believe i was that high from a .2 of it : ) I can only imagine how *piff* this bud will be once properly dried and cured.


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 3, 2008)

That's AWESOME, Tony.  Now you've got that first grow under your belt. Congratulations.


hom36rown said:


> so at no point does he put them in jars? or does he transfer to jars after a certain amount of time in the bag?


That's a good question. He may put them in jars once they're cured to the point he likes (if I recollect he said it takes about two weeks in the paper bags). I mean, it seems that if he left them in the bag that eventually they'd totally dry out, right? Unless he lived in the tropics, but he's in SoCal.


----------



## tonydash (Oct 3, 2008)

After I dry these buds for 5-7 days I plan on putting them straight into mason jars....lightly, not compact. I will burp then at least twice a day for 20-30 minutes and shuffle them around for the first week. After this I will let them sit in the jar and cure for another week or two.


Does this sound like a good plan guys? would you do anything different? : )

Thanks all!


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 3, 2008)

hmmm, I can never dry my buds to the point the stems snap and still have sticky moist buds, theres gotta be some trick to it


----------



## tonydash (Oct 3, 2008)

hey guys, here is the job I did so far to the bottom 40% of the plant. I'm letting the main cola and the top buds get a little more mature. Going to check everynight for frost / rot etc.

Here are some pics!


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 3, 2008)

I'd toke that!


----------



## tonydash (Oct 3, 2008)

haha, I cant believe how smooth this is going. I'm not trying to jinx it, but i feel like I did a good job for my first grow. It's so rewarding and I can't wait for next season.

Hell, I can't wait till the end of this week when I harvest the top of her 

I smoked a small bud (.4) I was drying for 3 days in my closet. I put it in the baggie I was talking about for 2 days. I smoked it today with my brother and two friends of ours.


Very good high and very good taste for not even being cured : )


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 3, 2008)

As you just found out, the whole 'curing' trip is a bit silly and unnecessary for cannabis. Curing may be a useful procedure for tobacco leaf but we're not growing tobacco.


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 3, 2008)

Thanks to Mr. Fuct I've got a quickie ghetto dryer set up in my bathroom right now, just to dry up a couple of sample nugs.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 3, 2008)

Be careful with prototypes. They can wind up being the working unit if you're not careful. My 1st proto of the bud dryer ran for 7 years until I rebuilt it even close to right. 


_The prototype_- _no thermostat, wrong size resistors, no motor speed control, 
original (wrong) fan locations covered with masking tape. Ran it for 7 years 
anyway because it worked great_


_The working unit with all that crap fixed
_


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 3, 2008)

Hey, if it ain't broke, yeah?  If it works it WORKS.


----------



## tonydash (Oct 5, 2008)

hey guys, my bud has been drying for about 3 days now. (the first batch). They shrunk down quite a bit and the outsides are starting to get "crispy". The bud is still bendy though and the stems are still green and very bendy.

The stems I am hanging the bud from are rather thick, is this why they are not drying out so quickly? Will the bud be overdry by the time the stems are "snappy"?

When I put the bud into mason jars will they get soft and plump again?


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 5, 2008)

dry it till the stem is dry, not the branch; the buds shouldnt be overdry if you do it right, I would suggest at this point, or maybe in another day or so, that you clip the buds off the branch and throw em in brown paper bags and let them finish completely drying in them in the bag.

heres a good article by dj short on how to dry/cure properly CC10: Cure Your Medicine


----------



## tonydash (Oct 5, 2008)

thanks, great article. still unsure if i want the stems to be green and slightly bendable when i put them into jars.


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 5, 2008)

Everyon and the mother says wait til it snaps, or atleast is very close


----------



## tonydash (Oct 5, 2008)

snaps on the "inside" or snaps in TWO? i dont really know -_-


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 5, 2008)

when you hear a snap, as opposed to it just bending...its shouldnt take that long, youve waited this long already, IM sure you can wait a couple more days


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 6, 2008)

tonydash said:


> hey guys, my bud has been drying for about 3 days now. (the first batch). They shrunk down quite a bit and the outsides are starting to get "crispy". The bud is still bendy though and the stems are still green and very bendy.
> 
> When I put the bud into mason jars will they get soft and plump again?


Dry them until the stem within the bud is still a bit bendy but the outer part of the bud is quite stiff. Then you can put them in an airtight container, where moisture from inside the bud will wick to the outside, takes a day or so.


----------



## tonydash (Oct 6, 2008)

thanks Al B. Fuct, i am going to move a lot of the smaller branches into mason jars now. 

Should I take each individual bud off the main stem by it's own stem or leave multiple buds on the larger branch?

I'm guessing I will take them off of the larger branch so its only the stem inside the bud where it attaches to the larger branch correct?


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 6, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> fdd2blk, I feel very confident that none of the authors you cite had a low-temp dryer like mine.
> 
> Moreover, have you ever noticed how incestuous many grow books are? They frequently and liberally thieve unproven information from one another- and don't bother to add anything to the proof before printing it. When they _*do*_ come up with something novel, it's not usually proven with any logical or scientific method.
> 
> ...


 Delta-9 THC changes from its acidic state into a neutral ph state during the curing process thus making not only taste better but more potent.

You obviously are smoking such low quality cannabis you cannot tell the difference.


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 6, 2008)

How do I change the words under my name?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 6, 2008)

tonydash said:


> Should I take each individual bud off the main stem by it's own stem


yes!




Greymattertripp said:


> Delta-9 THC changes from its acidic state into a neutral ph state during the curing process thus making not only taste better but more potent.


Please provide a reference to peer-reviewed scientific literature on the topic which can be independently verified. To us, you're just a noob with 3 posts on RIU and have not established any credibility, but even if you had a million posts, you're not believable unless you can support your statements. 

Simply, you won't be able to provide this reference. There's nothing you can do to improve potency of harvested buds. THC is a very unstable molecule and breaks down into non psychoactive isomers readily. The very best you can do is to not damage potency. 



> You obviously are smoking such low quality cannabis you cannot tell the difference.


Why yes, talking shit about things of which you quite *obviously* have NO clue _*DOES *_make you more believable. 

You can fuck off now.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 6, 2008)

Greymattertripp said:


> How do I change the words under my name?


Wow, you can't even manage to read the board FAQ yet you deign to instruct us on your world of knowledge about THC chemistry. 

Amazing.


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 6, 2008)

Oops.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 6, 2008)

_*BIG*_ oops.


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 6, 2008)

Drying bud converts THC to it neutral state, not curing...when you cure bud there is usually still some moisture in the bud , which dries slowly during the curing process, so in a way bud can get more potent as it cures, but only because it is still _drying_...but for the most part curing is for taste...atleast thats what this post says, I just regurgetated it for you guys  
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/18291-does-curing-affect-potency.html#post184231

makes sense to me


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 6, 2008)

hom36rown said:


> Drying bud converts THC to it neutral state, not curing...when you cure bud there is usually still some moisture in the bud , which dries slowly during the curing process, so in a way bud can get more potent as it cures, but only because it is still _drying_...but for the most part curing is for taste...atleast thats what this post says, I just regurgetated it for you guys
> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/18291-does-curing-affect-potency.html#post184231
> 
> makes sense to me


'neutral state'? As opposed to Park or Drive states, I suppose.  

WTF kind of science is that? Answer: It's _*NOT*_ science!

'Curing' is a method suiting tobacco leaf but is not necessary with cannabis. All you need do is reduce the moisture content of buds to about 2-3% and they're good to go. 

There's a number of problems in the post you cited. Aging is not a good thing for THC. Every scientific study I can find on THC (and I'm talking about good, peer-reviewed stuff, not gasbagging on cannabis forums) indicates that even with good storage conditions, THC breaks down into non-psychoactive isomers CBD & CBN with time. Fresh bud is more potent bud.


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 6, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Wow, you can't even manage to read the board FAQ yet you deign to instruct us on your world of knowledge about THC chemistry.
> 
> Amazing.


Look genius.

"In fresh green plants, the cannabinoids are primarily present in carboxylic acid forms, which are changed into the corresponding *neutral* compounds by aging or heat (for example, burning or cooking).159, 174 *THC* *acid* (THCA) for example, is apparently psychotropically inactive, and must be decarboxylated to *THC* prior to administration in order to produce significant effects."
Source
Chemical and Botanical Aspects of Cannabis

Just because I'm new to these forums doesn't mean I don't know what I'm saying, it also doesn't mean you have to be a total dick but if the shoe fits wear it. I really could care less if you smoke harsh shitty herb.


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 6, 2008)

To further clarify if the last one failed to penetrate your skull.

"The position of the carboxyl group does not affect the potency, but, in fact, in their acid forms the cannabinoids are not psychoactive. In fresh plant material, cannabinoids are almost entirely inn their acid forms. The normal procedure of curing and smoking the grass (heat) removes the carboxyl group, forming the gas CO2 and the psychoactive neutral cannabinoids"

Source:
CANNABINOIDS: THE ACTIVE INGREDIENTS OF MARIJUANA


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 6, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> 'neutral state'? As opposed to Park or Drive states, I suppose.
> 
> WTF kind of science is that? Answer: It's _*NOT*_ science!
> 
> ...


no, neutral as opposed to acidic or alkaline , if you would reread my post you would see I am agreeing with you, drying is what gives the bud its potency, if bud gets more potent in jars while curing it is because it is slowly drying....key word there....drying.....


----------



## Jointsmith (Oct 7, 2008)

Greymattertripp said:


> Look genius.
> 
> "In fresh green plants, the cannabinoids are primarily present in carboxylic acid forms, which are changed into the corresponding *neutral* compounds by aging or heat (for example, burning or cooking).159, 174 *THC* *acid* (THCA) for example, is apparently psychotropically inactive, and must be decarboxylated to *THC* prior to administration in order to produce significant effects."
> Source
> ...


That sure looks like Science to me...... 

Thanks for the links.


----------



## Kludge (Oct 7, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> The search function seems to be kludged...


Hey! Don't use my name in vain! 



Al B. Fuct said:


> Moreover, the conditions required for mould & fungi to survive don't exist inside a living lung, so even if you manage to inhale some live spores, they're not going to live there long.
> 
> If you want a lung infection, you're going to have to get it the old fashioned way, from bacteria or a virus.


FYI: Aspergillosis, a lung infection caused by certain molds of the Aspergillus genus, causes fever, cough, and chest pain. Organ transplant patients, individuals undergoing highdose corticosteroid therapy, and others with weak immune systems may be susceptible to aspergillosis, but healthy people are unlikely to get these infections (Centers for Disease Control, Disease Information, Aspergillosis).


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

Jointsmith said:


> That sure looks like Science to me......
> 
> Thanks for the links.


 No problem friend.

I gotta go to the club in the next hour or so, I need more gods gift.


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 7, 2008)

Kludge said:


> Hey! Don't use my name in vain!


 Triple-big OOPS. 

Just give me science. Hard facts that can be backed up. Although! I will accept empirical or anecdotal evidence, but my acceptance really depends on the source. 

Apparently a book I'd discovered a couple of months ago, Marijuana Botany, is cited in one of those papers. Guess I know which books I'll be asking for for Christmas. Although I also would like a heated vest for cool/cold weather riding and a backrest for the scoot. And maybe heated gloves, too.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

Greymattertripp said:


> Just because I'm new to these forums doesn't mean I don't know what I'm saying, it also doesn't mean you have to be a total dick but if the shoe fits wear it. I really could care less if you smoke harsh shitty herb.


Your citation of data completely irrelevant to drying cannabis DOES tell me you don't know WTF you're on about. You're wriggling because you can't prove your claim.

It's one thing to cite some scientific data that supports your case- it's something else to post something that looks like science in order to mislead people, which is *precisely *what you've done here. 



Greymattertripp said:


> Delta-9 THC changes from its acidic state into a neutral ph state during the curing process thus making not only taste better but more potent.


False. 

Exactly WHERE in the process of drying or in the much vaunted but unnecessary process of 'curing' does decarboxylisation occur? C'mon, tell me how this works. 

I'll give you a hint- decarboxylisation *doesn't* occur in drying OR in anybody's idea of curing, unless it's done in your kitchen's oven!

Your moronic and insulting assumptions about what I'm smoking or growing speak _*volumes *_about what you don't know. 

Your attempt to mislead readers of RIU who can't tell how to apply the data you've cited is enough for me to accept RIU admin's recent offer to be a moderator, just so I could have the pleasure of banning you.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

From a +r comment:


> You are gonna be a mod al? Sweet -NG


Thanks for the +r, but I politely declined admin's offer to be a mod. I put in 6 years as a mod on Overgrow.com (1999-2005) and that was enough- until I run into knobs like GMT who really need a swift and permanent exit. If I signed on to be a mod, I'd feel some obligation to be here regularly, something which isn't always possible, particularly when I'm in the middle of harvesting every 2 weeks- and it's that time again.


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> From a +r comment: Thanks for the +r, but I politely declined admin's offer to be a mod. I put in 6 years as a mod on Overgrow.com (1999-2005) and that was enough- until I run into knobs like GMT who really need a swift and permanent exit. If I signed on to be a mod, I'd feel some obligation to be here regularly, something which isn't always possible, particularly when I'm in the middle of harvesting every 2 weeks- and it's that time again.


Yah but you just told that guy you decided to be a mod now to ban him. C'mon Al I think RIU can be as good as Overgrow we just need the right people.kiss-ass

RIP Overgrow.com


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 7, 2008)

Ahh.. that answers a question that had been turning in my own head as well. I, too, have been there, done that (but for another type of forum entirely). It is a lot of work, especially on busy sites.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> Yah but you just told that guy you decided to be a mod now to ban him. C'mon Al I think RIU can be as good as Overgrow we just need the right people.kiss-ass
> 
> RIP Overgrow.com


I said that antics like GMT's are enough for me to consider taking the mod job on (again), but merely banning one idiot isn't worth taking on the job. Moderating a cannabis board is no small task and I would be remiss if I could not step in every day for several hours. 

Yeah, OG was a good board. Great people for the most part. 



Seamaiden said:


> Ahh.. that answers a question that had been turning in my own head as well. I, too, have been there, done that (but for another type of forum entirely). It is a lot of work, especially on busy sites.


It wasn't too long ago that I had to have Al B. FAQt closed while I was catching up my own op work. I was putting in 6h/day just answering the queries in that thread alone. I could easily see myself putting in twice that much time modding RIU. I only get 24 hour days like the rest of us and I need every bit of 2-3 12-14h/days to get a harvest out in a timely manner... and that's precisely where I should be as we speak.


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I said that antics like GMT's are enough for me to consider taking the mod job on (again), but merely banning one idiot isn't worth taking on the job. Moderating a cannabis board is no small task and I would be remiss if I could not step in every day for several hours.
> Yeah, OG was a good board. Great people for the most part.


Overgrow became a vast database of information and as a result a lot of good growers came out of it. I was sad to see it go, it is where I posed all my annoying noob questions, silly attic grows, ect. So I if I get some more people like GMT to come and post around here you will be a mod Al? Maybe just a part time mod?
Do you know what really happened with OG was it linked to the Mark Emery seed bust in any way? I'm still not clear what the got Richard on . . .


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Your citation of data completely irrelevant to drying cannabis DOES tell me you don't know WTF you're on about. You're wriggling because you can't prove your claim.
> 
> It's one thing to cite some scientific data that supports your case- it's something else to post something that looks like science in order to mislead people, which is *precisely *what you've done here.
> 
> ...


 Your an arrogant ban of douche and if you banned me I would simply come back. Ban my IP I'd use a proxy server just to spite you.

You can't prove anything I'm saying incorrect and have failed to site your own sources, 

you

have

failed.

Get over it chump. And kiss-ass


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> Overgrow became a vast database of information and as a result a lot of good growers came out of it. I was sad to see it go,


Oh yeah, stuff that was on OG has been preserved and reposted all over the web. I really miss the excruciatingly complete OG GrowFAQ. 



> it is where I posed all my annoying noob questions, silly attic grows, ect. So I if I get some more people like GMT to come and post around here you will be a mod Al? Maybe just a part time mod?


heh, if there were more people like GMT posting pseudoscientific claims which they themselves do not understand, it'd be a real schlemozzle. A mod can only keep up with so much. I can't be bothered even now with all the molasses-powered Aerogarbage threads...



> Do you know what really happened with OG was it linked to the Mark Emery seed bust in any way? I'm still not clear what the got Richard on . . .


Well, the bust of OG had to do with RC's 'Heaven's Stairway' seedbank op connection to the board. I'm not sure if Emery's bust was related to OG bieing dusted off, other than the Canadians deciding to allow the US DEA to start enforcing US law on Canadian citizens. 

Oh- and speaking of schlemozzles...



Greymattertripp said:


> Your an arrogant ban of douche and if you banned me I would simply come back. Ban my IP I'd use a proxy server just to spite you.


You could come back here and post lies under ANY username or IP- and we'd catch you out every time. You've discredited yourself and would do so under any label. 

So long and thanks for playing, loser.


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Oh yeah, stuff that was on OG has been preserved and reposted all over the web. I really miss the excruciatingly complete OG GrowFAQ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Post lies, LOL!!!

Your calling the authors of the publications I cited liars, not me.

What would I gain from lying about this subject matter???

Peoples pot to taste better and get them higher??? LOL

Dude, your a loser, get over it. You've spent your life on forum boards, your a burnout who can't even prove a point. Your the one thats discredited. But nice try chump.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

Your claim that 'curing improves potency' is false. Decarboxylisation, your desperate get-out claim when caught out, does not occur in anyone's idea of drying or curing. 

Any other steaming piles of wisdom for us today?


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Your claim that 'curing improves potency' is false. Decarboxylisation, your desperate get-out claim when caught out, does not occur in anyone's idea of drying or curing.
> 
> Any other steaming piles of wisdom for us today?


 
Actually, just to requote what you failed to read the first time

"In fresh green plants, the cannabinoids are primarily present in carboxylic acid forms, which are changed into the corresponding *neutral* compounds by *aging* or heat (for example, burning or cooking)."

AGING, you know like CURING. AGING IS CURING.

You have been PROVEN wrong.

Take your loss in grace this time.


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 7, 2008)

Al has been able to back up his statements to my own satisfaction, and I am a pretty tough audience to play to.

Just sayin'.


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 7, 2008)

Here it is Drugs-Forum - Cannabis cultivation: Overgrow's GrowFAQ unfortunately some of the links are incomplete an picture are missing. Some of it was preserved but not all of it.


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Al has been able to back up his statements to my own satisfaction, and I am a pretty tough audience to play to.
> 
> Just sayin'.


ARE YOU EVEN READING THE INFORMATION


"In fresh green plants, the cannabinoids are primarily present in carboxylic acid forms, which are changed into the corresponding *neutral* compounds by *aging* or heat (for example, burning or cooking)."

AGING, you know like CURING. AGING IS CURING.

THIS MEANS CURING DOES MAKE IT MORE POTENT. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???


----------



## 000420 (Oct 7, 2008)

Greymattertripp said:


> Post lies, LOL!!!
> 
> Your calling the authors of the publications I cited liars, not me.
> 
> ...


dude get out, your just embarrassing yourself...the shit you have stated is just wrong, THC is not decarboxylated until you burn it with your lighter, or cook it in some brownies or cookies ...


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

000420 said:


> dude get out, your just embarrassing yourself...the shit you have stated is just wrong, THC is not decarboxylated until you burn it with your lighter, or cook it in some brownies or cookies ...


ARE YOU EVEN READING THE INFORMATION


"In fresh green plants, the cannabinoids are primarily present in carboxylic acid forms, which are changed into the corresponding *neutral* compounds by *aging* or heat (for example, burning or cooking)."
SOURCE
Chemical and Botanical Aspects of Cannabis

AGING, you know like CURING. AGING IS CURING.

YOU CAN ARGUE UP IS DOWN ALL YOU WANT, YOUR STILL WRONG.

THIS MEANS CURING DOES MAKE IT MORE POTENT. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 7, 2008)

Greymattertripp said:


> ARE YOU EVEN READING THE INFORMATION
> 
> 
> "In fresh green plants, the cannabinoids are primarily present in carboxylic acid forms, which are changed into the corresponding *neutral* compounds by *aging* or heat (for example, burning or cooking)."
> ...


Hey, buddy, PISS OFF.  I have said absolutely NOTHING to deserve you angling your guns towards me. But, if you're really looking for someone to have a go 'round with on reading, ability and comprehension, you've picked your gal right here.

Now, in the meantime, unless someone's really given you good reason, back the fuck off.


----------



## 000420 (Oct 7, 2008)

Greymattertripp said:


> ARE YOU EVEN READING THE INFORMATION
> 
> 
> "In fresh green plants, the cannabinoids are primarily present in carboxylic acid forms, which are changed into the corresponding *neutral* compounds by *aging* or heat (for example, burning or cooking)."
> ...



aging makes it more potent if you like CBD.........instead of THC.......Curing is for complete uniform drying, because drying is what converts THC from its acidic to neutral and psychoactive form...although the THC does decarboxilate some what when you dry it, the decarboxylation doesn't really happen until you cook it or smoke it.


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

000420 said:


> aging makes it more potent if you like CBD.........instead of THC.......Curing is for complete uniform drying, because drying is what converts THC from its acidic to neutral and psychoactive form...although the THC does decarboxilate some what when you dry it, the decarboxylation doesn't really happen until you cook it or smoke it.


 Carboxilated THC is THCA when its decarboxilated it means its THC and psychoative, so aging (curing) DOES decarboxilate the THCA
not as much as COOKING OR BURNING. But it DOES HAPPEN, and more evenly than if you torch the herb, and if your vaporizing like I do, this makes a huge difference in the taste and stone.

Thanks for actually reading what I posted.


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 7, 2008)

Greymattertripp said:


> Carboxilated THC is THCA when its decarboxilated it means its THC and psychoative, so aging (curing) DOES decarboxilate the THCA
> not as much as COOKING OR BURNING. But it DOES HAPPEN, and more evenly than if you torch the herb, and if your vaporizing like I do, this makes a huge difference in the taste and stone.
> 
> Thanks for actually reading what I posted.


I was wondering though, is pure THC less stable than THCA? Therefore it would breakdown into other cannabinoids at a much faster rate. Just a thought not a sermon . . .


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> I was wondering though, is pure THC less stable than THCA? Therefore it would breakdown into other cannabinoids at a much faster rate. Just a thought not a sermon . . .


I would imagine so, but it would take some reading to see for sure.

That is an interesting question.

You've just inspired some study.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

Greymattertripp said:


> so aging (curing) DOES decarboxilate the THCA
> not as much as COOKING OR BURNING. But it DOES HAPPEN,


In utterly insignificant amounts at low temperature. Even if decarboxylation did occur in any significant amount in 'curing', since we already know it happens in abundance when smoking or making cannabutter, why then do you need to do it twice?

Curing is unnecessary and does not increase potency. 

Aging converts THC into CBD & CBN. 

Now, call me some names to make yourself 'righter.' Be inventive- you haven't gotten past form 2 yet. You COULD call me a precopernican obscurantist, ffs.


----------



## genfranco (Oct 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> In utterly insignificant amounts at low temperature. Even if decarboxylation did occur in any significant amount in 'curing', since we already know it happens in abundance when smoking or making cannabutter, why then do you need to do it twice?
> 
> Curing is unnecessary and does not increase potency.
> 
> ...



Or a Freak... your crazy man!... LOL>..


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

genfranco said:


> Or a Freak... your crazy man!... LOL>..


Is he still talking???



I put him on the ignore list because its like speaking to a rock. 


He is obviously wrong, anyone who is a consumer of fine cannabis and pays any attention knows curing matures the flavor and makes it more potent. No one just drys their shit and sells it/smokes it unless they care only about $$$$$/getting a quick head rush. If you cure it for too long yes it will change into CBD and CBN if he even READ my sources he would see that that is taken into account.

Anyone here that grows good shit knows what thery are doing knows to dry and then cure their cannabis. Some people never learn though.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

I guess when you can't prove your false assertions, you can always fall back on wives' tales and 'what everybody else does'. 

Suppositions, guesses and wives' tales are rampant in cannabis growing; just takes a few trash talkers to keep them going. 

RIU readers have had a gutful of the crap from self-appointed experts who can't support an assertion with science. They know I won't put up with manure spreaders. That might have something to do with why my threads are among the most read on this board. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html is past 133,000 reads and was closed a couple of months ago at 96,000. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/94811-al-b-faqt.html gets around 425/day. 

You're not going to get too far trying to convince people that I don't know what I'm doing, but hey, have a go. 

And BTW, I AM a precopernican obscurantist.


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 7, 2008)

I just got this from the club






This was from the streets though


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

Sorry you got suckered on the street deal. Grow your own and solve the problem.


----------



## genfranco (Oct 7, 2008)

Man i tell ya... I dont know what they do to the weed.. I say the same thing every time i go to the co op.... how the hell do they cure this ...c ause its dry.. but guey.... i tell yeah.. people that just dry the shit out of it and then it just crumbles up... lol... I like the dry but goey shit.. that smells good too.. I need to know what they do!!!


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

genfranco said:


> I like the dry but goey shit.. that smells good too.. I need to know what they do!!!


Easy, just hang dry or use a bud dryer to get the buds to the point where the outer material is quite dry, nearly crisp, but the stem within remains flexible. Then, put them in an airtight container to allow the moisture in the stem to wick to the outer part of the bud. Takes about a day for the moisture to equalise and make the bud uniformly springy and pliant. 

Overdry buds burn too hot and are harsh to smoke; drying as I've just described solves that. Use of a bud dryer to remove most of the water quickly eliminates the chance of mould which may occur in hang drying. 

BTW, overdrying is fixable. Put about 5ml of water on a paper towel and nest it in with the buds in an airtight container. The buds will rehydrate and again be springy and pleasant to smoke in a couple of hours.


----------



## genfranco (Oct 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Easy, just hang dry or use a bud dryer to get the buds to the point where the outer material is quite dry, nearly crisp, but the stem within remains flexible. Then, put them in an airtight container to allow the moisture in the stem to wick to the outer part of the bud. Takes about a day for the moisture to equalise and make the bud uniformly springy and pliant.
> 
> Overdry buds burn too hot and are harsh to smoke; drying as I've just described solves that. Use of a bud dryer to remove most of the water quickly eliminates the chance of mould which may occur in hang drying.
> 
> BTW, overdrying is fixable. Put about 5ml of water on a paper towel and nest it in with the buds in an airtight container. The buds will rehydrate and again be springy and pleasant to smoke in a couple of hours.


Do you find any negative for spraying them with water to re hydrate?... Anyone rehydrate with other shit... like lemon juice or something?

I think im gonna try that... lemon skunk my ass!!.. hehehe...


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

genfranco said:


> Do you find any negative for spraying them with water to re hydrate?


yeah, it's too easy to get them soppy wet with spraying instead of moving water into the buds molecule by molecule by simply exposing them to very high humidity with the 'barely-damp paper towel in a tupperware' method. 



> ... Anyone rehydrate with other shit... like lemon juice or something?
> 
> I think im gonna try that... lemon skunk my ass!!.. hehehe...


You _*could*_ rehydrate with citrus juice or peel, but I personally prefer cannabis to taste like cannabis, not oranges, lemons etc.


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 7, 2008)

Anybody else use a humidor to store buds they are currently smoking? I use one and as long as I keep the humidity around 40-45% even over dry buds that go in are re-hydrated in no time.


----------



## DoobyDoo (Oct 7, 2008)

Damn you and your "precopernican obscurantist", Al! Still putting the meaning together in the larger context, here, but in the meantime a google search found this for you.  Thanks for posting something I completely didn't understand. That always annoys/excites me 

Seamaiden, got any more pics of that bike? That thing is dead sexy... or seems to be, from the thumbnail  I am waiting on the fate of mine, got into a bit of a wreck last week. Some road rash and staples and I'm nearly back to form, could have been a lot worse.

This thread has been great. When my time comes to harvest, I know what I'll be doing. Some days in an ABF-style dryer, then sealed up for at least a few days. Thanks for all the great info, fdd & Al 

NG: I've wondered about humidors myself. Buds in jars/baggies/containers always end up drying out in time, seems like a humidor would work out as long as you can dial in the humidity level. Anyone?


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 7, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> Anybody else use a humidor to store buds they are currently smoking? I use one and as long as I keep the humidity around 40-45% even over dry buds that go in are re-hydrated in no time.


If I could keep a bud around here for more than a few days, I'd use a humidor! Sounds like a great way to keep them at perfect smoking moisture content.



DoobyDoo said:


> Damn you and your "precopernican obscurantist", Al! Still putting the meaning together in the larger context, here, but in the meantime a google search found this for you.  Thanks for posting something I completely didn't understand. That always annoys/excites me


Glad it entertained you. 

heh, the Hon Paul J Keating used the 'precopernican' pejorative in regards to the hopelessly and regressively conservative John Winston Howard about a year ago- and I've used it whenever possible ever since.


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> If I could keep a bud around here for more than a few days, I'd use a humidor! Sounds like a great way to keep them at perfect smoking moisture content.


Yeah it works pretty well mine can hold up to 8oz of bud and I have it sectioned off so I can make my selection of buds. I keep the rest in Mason jars though.  I like to keep refilling it as I go so I always have nice smoke in hand. I used to have more variety in there, now I don't have much. About 2oz Arjan's haze, 3g Cali Skunk, 1g Bubblegum, 1g Purple Haze, 1g Northern Lights. Can you guess what I just harvested? 
If you do get a humidor get rid of the crappy hygrometer and pick up a digital one though.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 8, 2008)

Sounds bitchin'.


----------



## Kludge (Oct 8, 2008)

genfranco said:


> Anyone rehydrate with other shit... like lemon juice or something?


I use Brawndo! It's got elecrolytes! It's got what plants want!


----------



## GrowTech (Oct 8, 2008)

rofl not to change the subject but this greymatter guy has to be the most annoying individual on the planet.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 8, 2008)

Kludge said:


> I use Brawndo! It's got elecrolytes! It's got what plants want!


WTF? Some sort of spoof? 



GrowTech said:


> rofl not to change the subject but this greymatter guy has to be the most annoying individual on the planet.


Wouldn't give him/her that much credit. There's MUCH more annoying in*duh*viduals out there. It continually amazes me how hard a troll will work to mess with some people who don't know any better.


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 8, 2008)

Kludge said:


> I use Brawndo! It's got elecrolytes! It's got what plants want!


No you got it all wrong its got electrolytes its what plants crave!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHElbD1imNo


----------



## 000420 (Oct 8, 2008)

Idiocracy...LOL...that was a funny ass movie....."Brawndo it's got what plants crave"


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 8, 2008)

movie? 

aha... Idiocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That one never made it to Australia. No wonder I'm mystified. Great premise for a flick, tho.


----------



## 000420 (Oct 8, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHElbD1imNo&feature=related

that clip is hella funny....


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 8, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Now, call me some names to make yourself 'righter.' Be inventive- you haven't gotten past form 2 yet. *You COULD call me a precopernican obscurantist,* ffs.


  Them's soundin' like fightin' words to me! 


NewGrowth said:


> Anybody else use a humidor to store buds they are currently smoking? I use one and as long as I keep the humidity around 40-45% even over dry buds that go in are re-hydrated in no time.


Oh.. REALLY? I've thought about this, you know. How about on the scale of a small room? I got my dad a nice little humidor that I don't think he uses anymore... this girl's just got an idea.


DoobyDoo said:


> Seamaiden, got any more pics of that bike? That thing is dead sexy... or seems to be, from the thumbnail  I am waiting on the fate of mine, got into a bit of a wreck last week. Some road rash and staples and I'm nearly back to form, could have been a lot worse.


Of course..  (you've gotta know I love my scoot, though lately craving a bit more.. "oomph", if you get my meaning) but I'd hate to hijack a thread like this. Maybe I'll put up a different shot in my sig, but haven't wanted to mess with the sig due to "the noo roolz". I haven't yet scrubbed out badly enough for rash, and I'm afraid to ask you what needed staples. 


DoobyDoo said:


> NG: I've wondered about humidors myself. Buds in jars/baggies/containers always end up drying out in time, seems like a humidor would work out as long as you can dial in the humidity level. Anyone?


My last question is how he keeps the humidity at that lower level, because as I recollect one keeps their cigars in conditions that sort of mimic the tropics (temp + humidity). Isn't something like RH70% ideal for good cigars (this without Googling)? I believe a special foam is used, something that I know as a florist's frog. It's a green, hard foam that holds stems in place, but also wicks up water through its cells.

So, He Whose Growth is Not Old, how do _you_ control the humidity?


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 8, 2008)

Oh, flaming Doob, check it, it's a start. 
Obscurantism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 8, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> :
> Oh.. REALLY? I've thought about this, you know. How about on the scale of a small room? I got my dad a nice little humidor that I don't think he uses anymore... this girl's just got an idea.Of course..
> 
> My last question is how he keeps the humidity at that lower level, because as I recollect one keeps their cigars in conditions that sort of mimic the tropics (temp + humidity). Isn't something like RH70% ideal for good cigars (this without Googling)? I believe a special foam is used, something that I know as a florist's frog. It's a green, hard foam that holds stems in place, but also wicks up water through its cells.
> ...


You are hard to quote seamaiden! Humidor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Let me check my humidor right now . . . it says 60%. When I add dry buds it drops sometimes (I think it was 45% yesterday cause I got some bud in the mail that was a bit dry) . . . I don't know if it would be feasible to store bud for really long term in there but I have buds from 6 months ago in there and they are perfect. You are right about the foam stuff that is what is in my humidor. I just add water too it and it keeps the humidity pretty consistent. If it gets too high I just take the foam thing out and let it dry a bit its on a magnet stuck to the top.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 8, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> I believe a special foam is used, something that I know as a florist's frog. It's a green, hard foam that holds stems in place, but also wicks up water through its cells.


The stuff you're referring to is brand named 'Oasis.' 







Rockwool slabs or cubes would be an acceptable substitute.


----------



## DoobyDoo (Oct 8, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> I haven't yet scrubbed out badly enough for rash, and I'm afraid to ask you what needed staples.
> 
> My last question is how he keeps the humidity at that lower level, because as I recollect one keeps their cigars in conditions that sort of mimic the tropics (temp + humidity). Isn't something like RH70% ideal for good cigars (this without Googling)? I believe a special foam is used, something that I know as a florist's frog. It's a green, hard foam that holds stems in place, but also wicks up water through its cells.


It was my shin... didn't even realize it was there until the paramedic sliced open my pant leg and said, "Woah, did you see this here?" "Huh?" "I can see your shin bone." So I got 2 firsts: first time I've been stapled closed (10 of 'em) and first time I've seen one of my own bones, live and in the flesh... literally.

I think cigars are kept at 70%, yes. Is that optimal for buds? I don't know. Might be something I can experiment with once I have enough that I have to worry about storing it for any length of time 

As for the Wiki link, thanks! My google-fu is weak. I am ashamed.  Anyway:


> *Obscurantism* (from the Latin _obscurans_, "darkening") is the practice of deliberately preventing the facts or full details of something from becoming known. There are two common senses of this: (1) opposition to the spread of knowledgea policy of withholding knowledge from the general public; and (2) a style (as in literature or art) characterized by deliberate vagueness or abstruseness.


I figured it was something similar, but according to this definition I am already very familiar with this concept in its physical manifestation: government.


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 9, 2008)

Google-fu...  My favorite is when I come up with things for which there is only the Googlewhack. I used to work with a man whose site is often a Googlewhack.

So, Doob, you didn't break anything, eh? Good work. I've been stapled closed, but they were the ones who cut me open in the first place. Glad to hear you're healing up!

Yes, Al, Oasis blocks! Someone else had already told me what they're called and, in typical fashion, I'd forgotten all but the little details.


----------



## tonydash (Oct 10, 2008)

figured i'd stop by and show everyone the progress 

was in the shed for 6 days total. most of the bud stems snapped when dry, some needed a pinch but I figured it was time to go to jars.

I did it a few branches at a time but I ended up doing the whole harvest. 


7pm






12pm 






i smoked .5 in a dutch with my brother and a friend. I had been smoking NYCSD all night, and this bud put me on a whole 'nother level. already tastes good! 

how's it look for a noob


----------



## Kludge (Oct 10, 2008)

Good job man, nice!


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 10, 2008)

Schweet.  Yeah, I'd smoke that.


----------



## t0k3s (Oct 10, 2008)

tonydash said:


> figured i'd stop by and show everyone the progress
> 
> was in the shed for 6 days total. most of the bud stems snapped when dry, some needed a pinch but I figured it was time to go to jars.
> 
> ...


Looks like i want a bong toke


----------



## tonydash (Oct 11, 2008)

SeaMaiden said:


> Schweet.  Yeah, I'd smoke that.


All of my friends too 



t0k3s said:


> Looks like i want a bong toke



haha, I love how it smokes already in dutchies, bud reminds me of haze. it also grew with predominantly sativa traits. It also has a sour smell to it. I got the seed from a bag of some pretty good bud that was a hermi. He said it reminded him of sour diesel.

The buds look haze-like but with some sour / sweetness to them. I'm going to call it Sweet & Sour!


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 11, 2008)

Sour diesel really smells sour? I'm a bit tripping on my Papaya, it actually smells a lot like an overripe papaya. Do the "cheese" weeds actually smell like cheese?  I love cheese.


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 12, 2008)

Sour diesel smells like citrucy fruit to me...mmmm one of my favorites. Ive had blue chees before, definitely a very unique smell, I guess you could say cheesey.


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 12, 2008)

Next thing you know someone's gonna come out with some kind of stank and call it Toe Cheese.  

(Hey, I have a Hip Hugger/Buster in my plans, I've got three beans from an unknown strain that took ALL bursitis pain away, and lemme tell ya, that's _something_, something special.)


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 16, 2008)

> Latest Reputation Received Thread Date Comment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dear pussy, SIGN your negative statements or fuck off.

edit- the pussy is Greymattertripp.

FYI- rep comments to me are no longer anonymous. admin has switched on the elite features for me.


----------



## sparkafire (Oct 16, 2008)

*GREYMATTERTRIPP*


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 16, 2008)

man, after seeing such a graphic representation, I'm really sorry I've insulted both chickens and shit.


----------



## GoodFriend (Oct 16, 2008)

hey buddy... i got a friend who's gonna hook up some cuts of ST3 after he finds a keeper in the group, can't wait to see why it's the only strain you run...


welcome to elitehood... have you checked out the private forums yet?


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## GrowTech (Oct 16, 2008)

not to change the topic, but fuct- greymattertripp has been my personal -rep pin cushion


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 16, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> hey buddy... i got a friend who's gonna hook up some cuts of ST3 after he finds a keeper in the group, can't wait to see why it's the only strain you run...


Um, I run Sweet Tooth #4. #3 was superseded because of not-so-good mould resistance. If you use ST3, be sure to have a sulfur evaporator and control RH to 50% as best you can. 



> welcome to elitehood... have you checked out the private forums yet?


I'll nose around in a bit, thanks. 



GrowTech said:


> not to change the topic, but fuct- greymattertripp has been my personal -rep pin cushion


heh, that ought to drive him mad, he's still butthurt over getting pwned by me not long back.


----------



## GoodFriend (Oct 16, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Um, I run Sweet Tooth #4. #3 was superseded because of not-so-good mould resistance. If you use ST3, be sure to have a sulfur evaporator and control RH to 50% as best you can.
> 
> I'll nose around in a bit, thanks.
> 
> ...



... sorry, stoner memory... numbers get mixed up...

but the RH shouldn't be a prblem.... i'm in the desert... and with the winter coming won't be running a swamp cooler, so 30-40 should be normal =] how's it otherwise?


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 17, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> heh, that ought to drive him mad, he's still butthurt over getting pwned by me not long back.


Great link! I've been using Main Page - Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia mostly to research Raptor Jesus - Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia (and the lesser Jesii, including OptiJesus Prime).  

And BOY am I glad I've been using the term "butthurt" correctly! I was worried after learning that we'd nicked "hella" from you Aussies and have been using it incorrectly.


----------



## Greymattertripp (Oct 17, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Um, I run Sweet Tooth #4. #3 was superseded because of not-so-good mould resistance. If you use ST3, be sure to have a sulfur evaporator and control RH to 50% as best you can.
> 
> I'll nose around in a bit, thanks.
> 
> ...


Actually it doesn't matter to me, unlike you I have a life outside of an internet forum, by the way, anyone of worth knows your a complete jackass and nothing you say will help produce quality cannabis, go back to twiddling your thumbs and hitting on underaged girls, your much better at it.

You were proven wrong and can't admit it, but I'm used to internet trolls, your not even the best I've seen as far annoying interwebz personalities go.

Anyone who doesn't think curing your bud matters is just a greedy dealer.
Your era is over son, step to the side for the quality growers.


edit: Furthermore anyone who doesn't flush a hyrdro grow should be promptly taken into the street and shot. (b fuct) I'm lookin at you scumbag.


----------



## GrowTech (Oct 17, 2008)

Greymattertripp said:


> Actually it doesn't matter to me, unlike you I have a life outside of an internet forum, by the way, anyone of worth knows your a complete jackass and nothing you say will help produce quality cannabis, go back to twiddling your thumbs and hitting on underaged girls, your much better at it.


That's funny... the only people I have ever seen talk shit about Fuct is you kiddies who know nothing about growing, and generally stick around for less than 6 months because they end up getting banned for all of the unwarranted shit you talk.



Greymattertripp said:


> You were proven wrong and can't admit it, but I'm used to internet trolls, your not even the best I've seen as far annoying interwebz personalities go.


I personally don't think you did anything to prove anything... and when it comes to internet trolls, it's hard to compare to you- so don't expect anyone to.



Greymattertripp said:


> Anyone who doesn't think curing your bud matters is just a greedy dealer.
> Your era is over son, step to the side for the quality growers.


It would help if you quoted him saying that curing bud doesnt matter... *Also, this forum has yet to see a single thing you've grown.* Just another kiddy with a dream, and not the knowledge, patience, or skill to do it.



Greymattertripp said:


> edit: Furthermore anyone who doesn't flush a hyrdro grow should be promptly taken into the street and shot. (b fuct) I'm lookin at you scumbag.


Before you go telling anyone they should be shot, and calling the a scum bag- you should take a good *look at yourself*. I think you've earned yourself ONE ally on this forum, and she's as useless as yourself when it comes to contributing quality advice.

Quit being such a *butt hurt whiner*, *nobody cares* to hear your *constant bullshit* about your "proper drying methods" or "norcal weed is better" - You're a *silly little punk*... *you* *come here, talk shit to everyone*, and then leave. I can only hope that today you talk shit to the wrong person, and end up* gettin mollywhopped *.


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## Al B. Fuct (Oct 17, 2008)

yeh, wot GT said. 

I do have to say this is the first time any butthurt whinger on a cannabis board has ever threatened to shoot me, but I guess the empty threat goes pretty well with the empty head.  

Back to the topic... LJI, ST3 is apparently quite similar to ST4, heavy yielder, heavy enough that it is its own worst enemy. Your desert conds should be great for ST3.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Oct 17, 2008)

GrowTech said:


> It would help if you quoted him saying that curing bud doesnt matter...


I'll make it *real* easy to find that quote... curing doesn't matter- not only that, it can _*decrease*_ potency. THC is an unstable molecule which breaks down into non-psychoactive isomers with time and exposure to heat and light. The very best you can do with your buds is not _*hurt*_ potency. Nothing our violent little pot buyer (or anyone else) can suggest will improve potency. 



> *mollywhopped *


That's a fucking GREAT word, I'm stealin' it.  Let me know if you need it back for anything, I'll take good care of it.


----------



## GafferGail (Oct 31, 2008)

I spent god knows how fucking long reading all this shit. Yeah, I'm nobody... but fuck. Step back and check yourselves! Bunch of douchebags duking it out on a fucking weed forum. GAY.


----------



## Seamaiden (Oct 31, 2008)

Gail.. not to change the subject (but I am), but, is that a Chilhouly glass piece as your avatar? It looks like a cephalopod.


----------



## midwestDET (Oct 7, 2009)

why would 'bunching thc' particles make them harder to burn? thc has the same melting/burning point whether you have .1g or 10g, its always going to 'burn' at the same temperature regardless...unlsess maybe you have no oxygen or you're in space?


----------



## aeroponicsROOKIE (Oct 7, 2009)

i grew some weed out side then clipped and put in jar it ended up all moldi

If you were to seal damp buds in a glass jar, you'd be much more likely to wind up with fuzzy mould all over the buds in a few days- presumably to keep your aerobic bacteria company! 

Don't ever put damp buds in a sealed container![/QUOTE]


----------



## Burger Boss (Oct 11, 2009)

aeroponicsROOKIE said:


> i grew some weed out side then clipped and put in jar it ended up all moldi
> 
> If you were to seal damp buds in a glass jar, you'd be much more likely to wind up with fuzzy mould all over the buds in a few days- presumably to keep your aerobic bacteria company!
> 
> Don't ever put damp buds in a sealed container!


[/QUOTE]
OK Rookie, this tread is 2 1/2 years old, and NOWHERE did ANYONE suggest you should put WET, UNDRIED nugs in a jar!
JEEEEZZZZZ..... READ!!!! Yes, BUD right off the the freshly harvested plant WOULD turn to SHIT real fast if sealed up without a little air drying time. Look Sport, if all this is TOO complicated, try growing tomatoes, you can consume those right off the plant. I normally say"Good luck & good grow" at the end of my post's, but I fear it would be a waste of text here.......BB


----------



## genfranco (Oct 11, 2009)

> OK Rookie, this tread is 2 1/2 years old, and NOWHERE did ANYONE suggest you should put WET, UNDRIED nugs in a jar!
> JEEEEZZZZZ..... READ!!!! Yes, BUD right off the the freshly harvested plant WOULD turn to SHIT real fast if sealed up without a little air drying time. Look Sport, if all this is TOO complicated, try growing tomatoes, you can consume those right off the plant. I normally say"Good luck & good grow" at the end of my post's, but I fear it would be a waste of text here.......BB


jesus BB,... have some compassion... LOL.. i know you have plenty of scissor hash going right now...


----------



## da07flopro (Oct 11, 2009)

Burger Boss said:


> *OK Rookie*, this tread is 2 1/2 years old, and NOWHERE did ANYONE suggest you should put WET, UNDRIED nugs in a jar!
> JEEEEZZZZZ..... READ!!!! Yes, BUD right off the the freshly harvested plant WOULD turn to SHIT real fast if sealed up without a little air drying time. *Look Sport, if all this is TOO complicated*, try growing tomatoes, you can consume those right off the plant. I normally say"Good luck & good grow" at the end of my post's, but I fear it would be a waste of text here.......BB


LOL damn you dont have to crush his insignificant life LOL its ok

Alls he said is his turned up moldy or moldi as he put it lmao chill


----------



## homegrownusa (Nov 1, 2009)

da07flopro said:


> LOL damn you dont have to crush his insignificant life LOL its ok
> 
> Alls he said is his turned up moldy or moldi as he put it lmao chill


this thread was very informative, thanks


----------



## RanTyr (Nov 2, 2009)

This thread is epic for it's irony. 

Al B Fuct wrecked FDD with logic. FDd reverts to childish pendantic rants. Morons hop on a bandwagon. Morons argue about shit that cannot ever be proven.

Moral? Stop bickering you dolts.


----------



## my420meds (Feb 25, 2010)

Mold , acrobatic bacterias, wasted weed, no smell, no taste, only high....

Sounds like a recipe for an addict if I have ever heard one. Go by a beer and chill the fuck out while your herbs dry.


----------



## w1ckedchowda (Feb 27, 2010)

my420meds said:


> Mold , acrobatic bacterias, wasted weed, no smell, no taste, only high....
> 
> Sounds like a recipe for an addict if I have ever heard one. Go by a beer and chill the fuck out while your herbs dry.


can you buy me some beer?


----------



## monkeybones (May 25, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> i can't believe he clowned ed and mel. not experts? how about THE experts.


Agreed... o.o 

Shit.


----------



## m0use (Sep 7, 2010)

Rh for optimal cigar Storage is 70%RH 70degreesF For every point the temp rises the RH should fall and vice versa. ONLY within 5Points each way. anything above 75Degrees or below 65Degrees(bad) and anything above 75% RH or below 65 % RH is considered to be non-ideal (too much mold) (too little too dry- harsh) . As for how tobacco for fine cigars is cured Quite simply It starts with fermentingt he leaves in GIANT bails. the temps inside the bails top 150degree's F and are needed to be turned periodically as to not burn it. or cause mold. 
After the Tobacco is fermented It is sorted into "like" piles based on appearance and size and strength. These piles are then piled in stacks for A.(storage/aging) B.(use) Depending on the cigar tobaccos are typically aged for at least 3-6 months . Yet some of the finest cigars contain tobacco that is 10's of Years old. I have personally smoked a cigar (and have several in my humidor) that's tobacco is over 20 Years old. If Kept in Optimal RH and TEMP the cigar( much like wine) can be stored for countless Years. Cigars that are some 60 years old are the smoke's of the cigar aficionado and are severly pricey and often illegal due to their cuban origins ( some and most That are older than 50 years may and most likely were produced pre-castro or during castro's reign in CUBA) 
I have smoked a 32 year old Cuban cigar and in aging the cigar's flavor's "marry" and become delicate and silky smooth in texture and taste some become more pronounced some soften and some ge bolder depending On the type of leaf used in the cigar's construction. If a Ligero or Oscuro Leaf is used in the cigar's production it will almost surely age better than a cigar wrappen inside of a Conneticut shade wrapper . Based simply on the amount of oils that the different leafs carry . 

So .
The way a cigar is aged(stored) is in 70% humidity 70 degree temps (with no attention payed to light) The way the tobacco is fermented is through heat fermentation. and then air curing or drying. ( i believe and correct me please if wrong but Marijuana Curing and Drying as we know it today has owes alot to the curing methods of tobbacco.) In some places ( mexico ) They even use similar methods of fermentation bY tieng the cola's together and rotating them every so often to give the bud the golden color or yellow appearance that some of the famous mexican strains are known for( acapoulco gold , michiwuacan ) All this stuff about cigar's I know cuz I was a cigar Consultant for 4 years. I know a shit on about cigar's. And I have read about the related cannabis info in some of Robert Connel Clarke's Botany of cannabis work. There are sections on growing regions and the like that explain some ancient curing methods and such  PLUR . :]


----------



## ganjaluvr (Oct 28, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> no thank you 20 years of tried and true methods are enough for me.
> 
> i'm in no hurry. do they quick dry fine cigars.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100% fdd. I guess only the true experienced growers know that its a fact.. that "quick drying" your harvests.. or even a test bud.. quick drying does nothing for you.. except maybe give you a ballpark idea.. of what your final product may be like.

Nothing beats a good old air dry.. and then a nice 2 week, to a 6 month cure. 

People just don't get it. Quick drying methods.. ALL OF THEM.. cannot and will not get rid of the chlorophyll, which is what is responsible for giving the bud that harsh taste in the back of your throat.. and it is also responsible for giving the bud that "hay" smell.

If people would just be patient.. and cure their buds correctly.. and let the "aerobic bacteria" do its job (its job is to basically get rid of the chlorophyll.. or "eat" the chlorophyll so to say). Some people just have no patients.. either that.. or their very uneducated when it comes to growing cannabis. Or, maybe they're both uneducated and inpatient.


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## ganjaluvr (Oct 28, 2010)

RanTyr said:


> This thread is epic for it's irony.
> 
> Al B Fuct wrecked FDD with logic. FDd reverts to childish pendantic rants. Morons hop on a bandwagon. Morons argue about shit that cannot ever be proven.
> 
> Moral? Stop bickering you dolts.



Maybe you should take your own advice my friend.. your bickering by simply posting that. 

Secondly.. fdd knows his shit. I will cite with fdd any day.. 

done.

peace.


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## hockey4848 (Oct 28, 2010)

anyone using a dehumidifier in their dry room?


I am thinking it is a bad idea...


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## Shangeet (Jan 28, 2011)

ya good post actually...
and great for newbies...
wish if rollitup warned as a fdd2blk alerts... great!!!


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## hardonharry (Feb 10, 2011)

Hello There, You seem like a sensible one!

Maybe you can help me?

I have just finished my first grow. 
18 himalaya gold seedlings in soil, under 2 600w hps. 
Did everything by the book.
They turned out like beasts, have a look for yourself.
However when i started to dry them, hanging upside down in a cool, dark, dry tent. I noticed that the buds were drying too quickly, leaving the stalks nice and wet.
The first batch even had a hint of mould in the aroma. The smell of the bud almost was non existant. I then trimmed the buds off the stalks and put them into brown paper bags and once were dry and smelt slightly better they went in for curing.
The taste of the bud wasn't very good and was quite harsh on the throat. But still got me very high.
Through some further reading, i was determined to not let this happen to the second batch.
i hung it for two days in slightly smaller branches, then they went into brown cardboard boxes suspended on a grill for 2 days, and now they have gone into paper bags!
I really need some good tasting bud after all this hard work!
Can someone please help me!? 

Any comments are welcome, but please constructive criticism only.
Thanks


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## Burger Boss (Feb 10, 2011)

HOH, did you flush? If not, educate yourself on the subject of cannabis flushing. Good luck & good grow.......BB


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## hunter1220 (Feb 11, 2011)

ok so when you are slow drying what do you keep your temps at? and how much air circulation? i just dried some fat diesel nuggets by hanging them in 75 degrees with air blowing on them and they lost all their "plump" i don't know if it was the way i dried them or what...


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## Burger Boss (Feb 12, 2011)

The temp sounds OK, I prefer a little cooler, like around 70. But, no fast air movement. I just put a little desk fan in the corner of the room and set at low toward the wall. Just enough circulation to prevent molding.
Good luck & good grow.......BB


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## goblinhtsdrmr (Apr 19, 2011)

constant gardener, maybe i should join you and throw some buds in the back windows of my 76 pacer with some soggy red rope. an put it in a mildly sunny area..


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## weedsLV (Apr 20, 2011)

Has anyone proven or disproven that light degrades thc? It's a pain in the ass to have a separate dry room where I can keep the lights off 24/7 .. Has any one tried drying with lights on? Did u notice any difference in the quality of the finished product? I think the drying with lights off is a myth? I mean shit they grow under light ? Why would the light b bad for em?


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## Burger Boss (Apr 20, 2011)

weedsLV said:


> Has anyone proven or disproven that light degrades thc? It's a pain in the ass to have a separate dry room where I can keep the lights off 24/7 .. Has any one tried drying with lights on? Did u notice any difference in the quality of the finished product? I think the drying with lights off is a myth? I mean shit they grow under light ? Why would the light b bad for em?


Bright, direct SUNLIGHT, will degrade THC. Low ambient indoor lighting would have little or no effect on the quality of your smoke. Good luck & good grow.......BB


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## weedsLV (Apr 20, 2011)

Thanks bro I've always used a tent to hang my buds in to dry but I out grew that so don't have an area to dedicate to drying so I'm glad a lil light shouldn't b devastating


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## risca (May 25, 2011)

bump.
Great thread... Hilarious and some good info.


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## SmokinHot420 (May 26, 2011)

Haha! Thats was crazy reading! Definetly hilarious though! 


I hang dry, only used a microwave to sample (and it KILLED me to do it)

...But Question.... Should/can I put a fan blowing into the place its hanging? I dont want to risk mold (Its been raining like crazy here, humidity really high, and I just pulled my plant 6 days ago.) It was feeling pretty dry about 2 days ago, then today I felt it and it feels like its gotten wetter. I want to make sure it keeps its smell (its the BEST smelling stuff i've grown )...

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!! 

Thanks!


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## Burger Boss (May 26, 2011)

In a high humidity situation, you want plenty of air movement........won't dry the plants too fast as long as ambient air is at least 65% humid.........Good luck & good grow.......BB

BTW....it would be better to lower the humidity if possible, and dry in the normal manner, with low air movement.


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## tharoomman (May 27, 2011)

I've quick dried too many times. Using a toster oven on a low setting==Around 150 or lower depending on how long you want it to take==works really good. . I just recently let some Fast nevilles that I pulled early hang for 24 hours then put in the toster over on 150 until the stem snapped. Good shit. Deference in tastes...a little, it wasn't too harsh, but IMO this bud wasn't any less potoent for drying it the way I did. I smoke all the time so I'm a good judge.


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## DrGreenFinger (May 29, 2011)

SmokinHot420 said:


> Haha! Thats was crazy reading! Definetly hilarious though!
> 
> 
> I hang dry, only used a microwave to sample (and it KILLED me to do it)
> ...


you need to use a dehumidifier


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## panhead (Jun 2, 2011)

RanTyr said:


> This thread is epic for it's irony.
> 
> Al B Fuct wrecked FDD with logic. FDd reverts to childish pendantic rants. Morons hop on a bandwagon. Morons argue about shit that cannot ever be proven.
> 
> Moral? Stop bickering you dolts.


Ive been using my quick dryers that were built using Al's design for about 3 years now with great success, with hundreds of customers using my meds weekly you'd think there would be complaints,not a single complaint,co-op customers speak with their wallet,sell them inferior product and they will avoid your product on their next visit and buy other suppliers product.

This dont mean quick dryers are for everybody,it's like any other growing technique,some will get it down pat and have excellent results while others fail and get shitty smoke,its trial and error just like anything else.

Any member who comes here and posts in absolute terms is ignorant,there are truly 2 sides to this long standing debate and both methods will show excellent results,its all about implementation and technique.


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