# Deficiency or Nutrient burn of some sort?



## notoriouscheech (Nov 26, 2019)

Within the past few days I've noticed some yellowing on my leaves starting from the inside of the leaf going out. Seems to be along the viens of the leaves if that helps. Also seems to be more on the newest growth rather than leaves near the bottom. My last watering I gave a very light feeding of fox farms big bloom,calmag, and armor SI. Always ph'd between 6.3-6.7, using Fox Farms Ocean Forest soil. Giving VERY light feedings when i do feed, but mostly just watering with ph'd water so far. Any ideas?


----------



## Jypsy Dog (Nov 26, 2019)

Look into Sulfur deficiency.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 26, 2019)

Jypsy Dog said:


> Look into Sulfur deficiency.


Good thought, looks very similar. Something thats throwing me off is my yellowing seems to come from the inner leaves closest to the stem, and starting in the veins/inner part of the leaf moving out. Not sure if any feeding ive done has any sulfer... What would you suggest to get it into my program?

Thanks a ton for the response.


----------



## Budzbuddha (Nov 26, 2019)

How close is your lights ?

Also FYI ... Armor Si loses availability above 6.5 .
FFOF / Happy Frog is prebuffered at 6.3 right out if the bag. I always target 6.3-6.5 no more no less.

I also see some mottled leaves ( are you foliar spraying ) not sure . Always make sure you mix in silica *FIRST *in water ( mixed well ) before other amendments *then ph to range. *Silica often spikes the ph.

For sulphur issue a simple epsom salt foliar will help. Also but feed up ... big bloom is not enough. 
You can either top dress ffof and water in ( simple ) or use a bit of Grow Big for a nitro bump ( looks a little light color on fans ).


----------



## Clumpyoyster (Nov 26, 2019)

notoriouscheech said:


> Within the past few days I've noticed some yellowing on my leaves starting from the inside of the leaf going out. Seems to be along the viens of the leaves if that helps. Also seems to be more on the newest growth rather than leaves near the bottom. My last watering I gave a very light feeding of fox farms big bloom,calmag, and armor SI. Always ph'd between 6.3-6.7, using Fox Farms Ocean Forest soil. Giving VERY light feedings when i do feed, but mostly just watering with ph'd water so far. Any ideas?


Its either a sulfur or iron decifientcy... check this out its helped me in the past. Might even be an early zinc def 









Plant Doctor - Diagnose Your Cannabis Plants! | Grow Weed Easy


Use our cannabis growing problem pictures and interactive plant doctor tool to quickly diagnose your sick marijuana plants! Click the pictures below to learn about a marijuana problem, deficiency or symptom & get the solution! Still having trouble? Consult our 5-Step Remedy to 99% of Cannabis...




www.growweedeasy.com


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 26, 2019)

Budzbuddha said:


> How close is your lights ?
> 
> Also FYI ... Armor Si loses availability above 6.5 .
> FFOF / Happy Frog is prebuffered at 6.3 right out if the bag. I always target 6.3-6.5 no more no less.
> ...


Lights are about 20-24 inches from the top of the highest plant. Turned up about 30-40% of the way. LED. Good to know, i will start staying closer to 6.3-6.5.

foliar spraying.. I had a very small powder mildew problem( one spot on two different plants a week apart) that i have been combating with a milk/water spray which seems to be helping, but ive only done twice hence the small spots im assuming you are seeing. Noted. ARMOR SI Always mix first when using, then ph. Thank you.

I take it then you think the coloring is definitely not from too much nutrients and I should be adding more. I have yet to add "Grow Big" which i may add some as well along side armor si and big bloom. Do you think I should be adding calmag still as well? Liquid karma?

So an espom salt foliar spray should help the sulfur and dont hesitate to add a little more nutrients is what im gathering. 




Clumpyoyster said:


> Its either a sulfur or iron decifientcy... check this out its helped me in the past. Might even be an early zinc def
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks man! Have actually done a bit of reading on that website but didnt zone in on just one problem. I was originally thinking Iron possibly.


----------



## Clumpyoyster (Nov 26, 2019)

Always mix in your nutrients first then pH the water. Bloom nutes drop pH levels by maybe a full 2 points. My tap water is about 7.3-7.8 and once i add a full strength nute feed the pH drops to 5.7-5.9. I then add my pH adjustment up or down in bloom its always pH up


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 26, 2019)

@Clumpyoyster 

Noted! I have been doing this so far so im on the right path. Always PH after nutes and usually just have to add a few drops of ph down. Mine tends to stay around 8.5-9 before ph.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 26, 2019)

Thinking of feeding here soon, would ya'll suggest to give a decent feeding to try and clear the yellowing? The pots are on the dryer side and its been 3-4 days since last watering so i dont think im over-watering by any means. I usually water until just a little bit of run off. 

Thinking of feeding with Fox Farms big bloom, grow big, cal mag, and possibly Armor Si. Also have molasses, liquid karma, seaweed extract, fish guana, and some "energize". Dont want to feed too much though. Suppose i could feed liquid karma as well as they have feeding early on in the schedule as well. Just nervous on over-feeding!


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 26, 2019)

Iron def. ph too high likely because your water is very alkaline naturally. so even if you ph down it will naturally climb back up especially of youve overwatered. or simply rootbound


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 26, 2019)

Smoknkush_420 said:


> Iron def. ph too high likely because your water is very alkaline naturally. so even if you ph down it will naturally climb back up especially of youve overwatered. or simply rootbound


I plan on Ph much lower tonight probably at 6.3, think that is good or even lower possibly? I dont believe ive been over watering. I water until a little bit of runoff and letting them get dry until watering again. Usually 4 days. Dont believe they are rootbound yet as the root growth was fairly slow in the red cups and I transplanted about 2-3 weeks ago on them.

With all that in mind think I should just be feeding a little more? Both big bloom and grow big have a little bit of iron. Have yet to use grow big.


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 26, 2019)

what is your medium? iron is abundant in most soils. if a plant isnt getting it 99% of the time its a lockout or a root issue so no need to add any


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 26, 2019)

Smoknkush_420 said:


> what is your medium? iron is abundant in most soils. if a plant isnt getting it 99% of the time its a lockout or a root issue so no need to add any


Fox Farms Ocean forest. 

A week or two ago I saw a couple gnats and havnt really seen any since, maybe one. I wonder if it is a root root problem with gnats underneath the soil? Not sure just spitballin.


----------



## m99smith (Nov 27, 2019)

If they are gnats I would transplant them into new cups/pots and after that put like an inch of sand on top if it's fungus gnats they cats eat or breed there and will die in a week if it's not that you could be watering too much


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 27, 2019)

i doubt irs gnats ud likely see some ontop just try transplanting and maybe use a different water source and see where that brings u


----------



## m99smith (Nov 27, 2019)

Smoknkush_420 said:


> i doubt irs gnats ud likely see some ontop just try transplanting and maybe use a different water source and see where that brings u


With fungus gnats they are really small,and are usually black so hard to see in dirt where is where they like to stay most of the time because they feed on the fungus in the dirt they can lay up to 200 eggs a week the adults don't do the damage the larva will eat the nutrients and the roots the adults have about a week life span so even if it is not the gnats doing damage right now they will become an infestation quick of thousands so I would still do something to counter measure them like sand or something like that they feed on fungus and need a surface that will stay moist (sand will not grow fungus and will dry quick so the fungus gnats won't breed there)


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 27, 2019)

m99smith said:


> With fungus gnats they are really small,and are usually black so hard to see in dirt where is where they like to stay most of the time because they feed on the fungus in the dirt they can lay up to 200 eggs a week the adults don't do the damage the larva will eat the nutrients and the roots the adults have about a week life span so even if it is not the gnats doing damage right now they will become an infestation quick of thousands so I would still do something to counter measure them like sand or something like that they feed on fungus and need a surface that will stay moist (sand will not grow fungus and will dry quick so the fungus gnats won't breed there)


yeah i understand but in my experience u can always see a couple on the edge of the pots. they do come out.. lol i just put down eggs shells like mulch and put DE ontop and down the sides of the containers.


----------



## m99smith (Nov 27, 2019)

Smoknkush_420 said:


> yeah i understand but in my experience u can always see a couple on the edge of the pots. they do come out.. lol i just put down eggs shells like mulch and put DE ontop and down the sides of the containers.


That sounds like a good idea I should give it a try when I plant another I've also hear of ppl having a bowl or bottle of non-alcoholic wine and the fungus gnats just jump in and suicide lol but yeah for what this guy has going on he also needs to up his nutes he is defenatly starving his plant


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 27, 2019)

I did actually buy some misquoto bites for the gnats but have yet to use yet. I havnt been seeing any flying around so should i be safe to assume they are gone? I also dont want to transplant as ive only been in these pots for about 2 weeks so not enough time for roots. I didnt water last night and figure I would let dry out a little more and give time for more responses. 

Thanks everyone


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 27, 2019)

notoriouscheech said:


> I did actually buy some misquoto bites for the gnats but have yet to use yet. I havnt been seeing any flying around so should i be safe to assume they are gone? I also dont want to transplant as ive only been in these pots for about 2 weeks so not enough time for roots. I didnt water last night and figure I would let dry out a little more and give time for more responses.
> 
> Thanks everyone


thats a tough one. there could be eggs still. add some de water little and wait a week if u dont see them still youre likely good.


----------



## Jypsy Dog (Nov 27, 2019)

Teaspoon Epsom/gal H2o.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 27, 2019)

@Smoknkush_420 What is "de" water? Or do you mean letting it dry out sufficiently so any possible gnats/eggs die off? 

Still debating on when/if to water with the mosquito bites. 

@Jypsy Dog Thank you for the excellent reply. Seems like were leaning towards a sulfur deficiency, I will mix up a spray tonight and do that! Thanks again.


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 27, 2019)

De meaning diatomaceous earth or fossil flour


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 27, 2019)

just fyi thats more likely iron def not sulfur only on new growth.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 27, 2019)

Smoknkush_420 said:


> just fyi thats more likely iron def not sulfur only on new growth.


Looking over my plants more I should not have said it was only new growth. Its definitely more noticeable on the newer growth but there is yellowing on growth halfway up the plants closer to the stem


----------



## Jypsy Dog (Nov 28, 2019)

Smoknkush_420 said:


> just fyi thats more likely iron def not sulfur only on new growth.


Because you know so much... Iron doesn't take out the veins on the leaf like Sulfur. But thanks for Guessing!


----------



## Wastei (Nov 28, 2019)

Try raising the lights and see if the problem persist. Probably not a pH or nutrient problem if you feed with complete plant food.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 28, 2019)

Wastei said:


> Try raising the lights and see if the problem persist. Probably not a pH or nutrient problem if you feed with complete plant food.


Ive gotten told to lower lights, raise lights, and turn up lights. Haha, which one?! Ive got them about 20-24 inches away currently and turned up maybe 50%


----------



## Wastei (Nov 28, 2019)

notoriouscheech said:


> Ive gotten told to lower lights, raise lights, and turn up lights. Haha, which one?! Ive got them about 20-24 inches away currently and turned up maybe 50%


They are really transpiring water so it's either heat or to much light from what I can see.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 28, 2019)

Wastei said:


> They are really transpiring water so it's either heat or to much light from what I can see.


How can you tell? Curious on what the signs are. Definitely not too much heat as im using LED's and my temps have been staying around the 70s. Cant feed hardly any heat at all from the LED


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 28, 2019)

Jypsy Dog said:


> Because you know so much... Iron doesn't take out the veins on the leaf like Sulfur. But thanks for Guessing!
> View attachment 4428229
> View attachment 4428230


LOL OKAY literally just went through an iron def 2 weeks ago. that looked exactly like these but Okay mr arrogant dweeb


----------



## Jypsy Dog (Nov 28, 2019)

Smoknkush_420 said:


> LOL OKAY literally just went through an iron def 2 weeks ago. that looked exactly like these but Okay mr arrogant dweeb


Go back and look at his pictures.... Veins are yellowed out. Iron all happens between the veins.




__





Do you Have Iron Deficiency in your Cannabis Plants?


Iron Deficiency with cannabis plants occurs with new leafs , you will notice yellowing between veins, but take a closer look where the yellowing starts




www.sensigarden.com


----------



## Jypsy Dog (Nov 28, 2019)

"but Okay mr arrogant dweeb"
YOU missed the difference, and that's the difference between helping and guessing.


----------



## 3rd Monkey (Nov 28, 2019)

Smoknkush_420 said:


> Iron def. ph too high likely because your water is very alkaline naturally. so even if you ph down it will naturally climb back up especially of youve overwatered. or simply rootbound


This combined with the amount of K and Ca/Mg you're adding is locking out Iron. FF is SUPPOSED to be prebuffered, but you should check it anyway.


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 28, 2019)

Jypsy Dog said:


> "but Okay mr arrogant dweeb"
> YOU missed the difference, and that's the difference between helping and guessing.


LOL OkAY lets look at a fucking cartoon drawing instead of a real plant. and iron def does yellow the veins fool sulfur will also discolorthe tips on lower growth which he doesnt have GENIUS tell me these veins aren't yellow SMH so before jumping to conclusion maybe check your eyes first


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 28, 2019)

Smoknkush_420 said:


> just fyi thats more likely iron def not sulfur only on new growth.


How would you suggest to combat a possible iron deficiency? I watered with 6.3 ph last night and a very light cal mag/big grow feeding. The run off was testing 6.5-6.6.


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 28, 2019)

3rd Monkey said:


> This combined with the amount of K and Ca/Mg you're adding is locking out Iron. FF is SUPPOSED to be prebuffered, but you should check it anyway.


this guy knows what hes talking about


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 28, 2019)

3rd Monkey said:


> This combined with the amount of K and Ca/Mg you're adding is locking out Iron. FF is SUPPOSED to be prebuffered, but you should check it anyway.


From what ive read FF will buffer me for a few weeks, ive had these plants in this soil for almost a month now if im not mistaken. The only feeding ive done is 1/4 strength, big bloom, calmag. Do you think that could still be a lockout?


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 28, 2019)

notoriouscheech said:


> How would you suggest to combat a possible iron deficiency? I watered with 6.3 ph last night and a very light cal mag/big grow feeding. The run off was testing 6.5-6.6.


itll just take time. took mine almost a week to grow out of it ended up transplanting and flushed with 6.5.

shes happy again.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 28, 2019)

Do you suggest giving more straight waterings then and no nutes? or keep doing very light feeding every other.

I watered yesterday at 6.3 and my runoff was 6.5-6.6


----------



## Smoknkush_420 (Nov 28, 2019)

im not a huge chem guy so my advice on that subject is mediocre. maybe half your nute feed for the next few waterings seems like 3rd monkey could give you better advice on that.


----------



## 3rd Monkey (Nov 28, 2019)

notoriouscheech said:


> From what ive read FF will buffer me for a few weeks, ive had these plants in this soil for almost a month now if im not mistaken. The only feeding ive done is 1/4 strength, big bloom, calmag. Do you think that could still be a lockout?


FF will buffer for as long as you need, that's largely in its cation exchange capacity. It will only feed for a few weeks because it will deplete those cations and nutrition will need to be added. However, it's what you're feeding. Heavy K, Ca, P (direct relationship with Mg) and Mg will block Iron. 

If you are watering at 6.3, you're too high. OF is a peat based mix and it acts like it. 5.8-6.0 will help you out, as would a top layer of compost to boost your microbes. They will fix the situation much quicker than you can.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 28, 2019)

appreciate the honesty and noted. My next watering will be straight water thats for sure. Will take it one step at a time until then. Thinking I need to top/train some of these girls real soon. Update pictures today.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 28, 2019)

3rd Monkey said:


> FF will buffer for as long as you need, that's largely in its cation exchange capacity. It will only feed for a few weeks because it will deplete those cations and nutrition will need to be added. However, it's what you're feeding. Heavy K, Ca, P (direct relationship with Mg) and Mg will block Iron.
> 
> If you are watering at 6.3, you're too high. OF is a peat based mix and it acts like it. 5.8-6.0 will help you out, as would a top layer of compost to boost your microbes. They will fix the situation much quicker than you can.


Oh wow okay! Thanks for the great reply. Was thinking 6.3 was on the lower level. I will go even lower then! Thanks for that advice. What do you suggest for that top compost layer? 

Do you suggest i change up what im feeding with at all or just go less/straight water?

Ive got Fox Farms trio, liquid karma, cal mag, seaweed extract, molasses, fish guana, recharge, mykos/azos.

Thanks!


----------



## 3rd Monkey (Nov 28, 2019)

notoriouscheech said:


> Oh wow okay! Thanks for the great reply. Was thinking 6.3 was on the lower level. I will go even lower then! Thanks for that advice. What do you suggest for that top compost layer?
> 
> Do you suggest i change up what im feeding with at all or just go less/straight water?
> 
> ...


6.3 is a fair ph for soil... Which OF really isn't. It's more of a hot compost with peat. In simplest terms, metals need to be slightly more acidified in a "hydro" element for proper uptake. 

Any quality compost will do, even EWC. Both contain readily available nutrition that won't burn your plants, beneficial bacteria, and more organic matter which will offset the peat slightly. Peat has a slightly lower CEC, but the organic matter makes up for it. While that won't defeat your ph issue, it will provide bacteria that will form a symbiotic relationship with your roots and pretty much make ph obsolete. 

If you are going to top dress with compost/castings, just plain water for a week or so, then feed. However, try to get at least one watering at 5.5-6.0 in between adding the microbes. They don't like ph or environmental changes, so best to do it before adding them.

Out of that lineup, I would start feeding the kelp extract and microbes first, then start bumping what's needed as its needed. Kelp is very beneficial for unlocking nutrients that become bound. Microbes love kelp as well, plus it has lots of trace elements. 

All in all, try to look at it as feeding your soil, and letting your soil feed your plant. Nutrition is important, but making it available when needed is more important.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Nov 28, 2019)

Ahh gotchya! I was going off the fact that i assumed it would be in the soil category. Makes sense though. I will lower the ph next feedings. EWC = Earth worm castings? I did buy some of those a couple weeks back! 

If im understanding this all right I should top dress the pots with EWC, about an inch deep or little less? I will make sure to give a plain water before top dressing. Should be a few days given that i fed last night. Seems to dry out after about 3-4 days. 

Do you suggest i water at all with the mykoz/azos, assuming thats what you mean by microbes. Or just use my small pack of recharge? I did add the mykos/azos when transplanting just never have watered with. I will add the kelp extract definitely. Have yet to use that. 

Thanks for all the wonderful replies and info, i really appreciate it.


----------



## notoriouscheech (Dec 1, 2019)

Gave a very light seaweed feeding and lower ph water, as well as a epsom salt/water foliar spray the other day. Things are looking alright, still a little yellowing but nothing is getting worse. Thoughts? 





Thoughts on topping some of these taller ones?


----------

