# SCOTTYBALLS Tribute Grow! Pineapple Express 400w Scrog Waterfarm



## kriznarf (Aug 23, 2011)

Don't call this a SCOTTYBALLS cover grow, it's a tribute grow!

This is my first journal, but my second grow. While completing the first, I did a fair amount of research into what sort of grow I'd like to do my second time around. Given the equipment/space that I have to work with, SCOTTYBALLS' relatively famous grow proved to be the inspiration that I was looking for. Special thanks to ottermunky and Dayzt, who's "Scotty" grows have also proved to be very educational. 

Strain: G13 Labs - Pineapple Express
Light: Early veg - T5, main veg - 400w MH, flower - 400w HPS
Hydro Kit: Waterfarm - Extra 1/4" holes drilled, 1" PVC pump column installed
Nutes: Flora Nova Bloom - Start to finish
Space: Secret Jardin DRII 90 (35.5"x 35.5"x 71")
Air: 200 CFM Sunleaves WindTunnel, Phresh carbon filter, Phat muffler

I've attached some pics below. The first five are from my first grow, which I'm happy to answer any questions about. The next couple are pics from day 4 and day 8 of the current (Scotty) grow. 





You'll probably note that I germinated my seed in a rockwool cube. I first tried a seed right in the hydroton (like Scotty and others,) but was having a little trouble. The rockwool seems to be working out just fine. The 400w MH light will go up tonight (day 11) and I'll be sure to post some update pics tomorrow (day 12.)

Please feel free to ask any questions and I'll do my best to answer them. Otherwise, sub up and enjoy the ride!


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## jesus of Cannabis (Aug 23, 2011)

what is scotty balls?


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## DinafemHashPlant (Aug 23, 2011)

lol scottyballs is a grower on here who got alot of people to start using the waterfarms..He has pretty much master them and avg 10-15 oz per plant under a 400w HPS start to finish with just using Floranova Bloom from start to finish..Every copies his set-up in hopes of getting same results...


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## kriznarf (Aug 23, 2011)

jesus of Cannabis said:


> what is scotty balls?


SCOTTYBALLS' Grow


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## jesus of Cannabis (Aug 23, 2011)

thats funny, lol. thanks for the background


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## mears220 (Aug 23, 2011)

subbed mate ill be here for the ride


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## OGPanda (Aug 23, 2011)

Sub'ed up for this one too.


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## mr2shim (Aug 23, 2011)

DinafemHashPlant said:


> lol scottyballs is a grower on here who got alot of people to start using the waterfarms..He has pretty much master them and avg 10-15 oz per plant under a 400w HPS start to finish with just using Floranova Bloom from start to finish..Every copies his set-up in hopes of getting same results...


and from what I've seen, they usually turn out doing just as good or sometimes better. 

I am subbed! always loving the scottyballs inspired grows and follow everyone.


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## kriznarf (Aug 23, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> I am subbed! always loving the scottyballs inspired grows and follow everyone.


Ha! I was just posting in your journal about how you should take a look at mine since we're both doing Scotty grows. Glad to have you along for the ride!


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## kriznarf (Aug 23, 2011)

mears220 said:


> subbed mate ill be here for the ride





OGPanda said:


> Sub'ed up for this one too.


Thanks for subbing! Def appreciate the input and encouragement.


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## jojaxx (Aug 24, 2011)

I think I'll hang around also.


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## kriznarf (Aug 26, 2011)

Day 14:

PPM:300
PH 6.7



Bummed that I couldn't post an update sooner, but I was kind of waiting to get my MH bulb up. Unfortunately, the first bulb that I got was broken upon delivery. Wasn't able to hit up a local hydro store for a replacement until today. It's my first experience with an MH bulb. I had heard that they run hot, but I was still a bit surprised by how much heat this bulb puts off. I'm currently going with an open reflector and temps are hovering in the mid 80's F, but I may go back to my previous setup (as seen in the first post) if the temp runs any higher. I think she might be a little larger if I had been able to get that bulb up a couple days earlier. Ahh well, growing is often an exercise in patience.

You've probably also noticed the addition of the aluminum foil covering. The purpose of this is two-fold. One: I noticed a little algae growth on some of the surface hydroton. Putting those little guys in the dark seems to have done the trick as all of the green that I previously saw has disappeared in the past two days. Two: To help with evaporation. Scotty recommended it and it def seems to be working so far. I will say, however, that the duller side of the aluminum foil is supposed to be the more reflective side (even though aluminum foil isn't actually that reflective,) which is something I haven't read anywhere on RIU.

Last but not least, in the fourth pic you can see a close-up of the 1" PVC pipe that I used to replace the stock pump column. One of the awesome benefits of having all that extra space in the column is that I have the perfect place to run a second air-line, which you can see in the pic. The second air-line for an airstone that's bubbling away in the reservoir. While Scotty didn't ever mention using an airstone in the reservoir, many other growers have had excellent results doing so. I figure it can't hurt.

Thanks for stopping in, nerds!


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## kriznarf (Aug 26, 2011)

jojaxx said:


> I think I'll hang around also.


Thanks for the nod, hope you enjoy the journal!


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## mr2shim (Aug 26, 2011)

Looking pretty good! What kelvin is the MH you're using. Next time around I'm going to go for a daylight MH instead of the cool white I have.


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## kriznarf (Aug 26, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> Looking pretty good! What kelvin is the MH you're using. Next time around I'm going to go for a daylight MH instead of the cool white I have.


It's a 6500K MH bulb. Digilux 400w. Bright as hell!


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## mr2shim (Aug 26, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> It's a 6500K MH bulb. Digilux 400w. Bright as hell!


Nice! Wish there was a hydro store local to me.


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## kriznarf (Aug 27, 2011)

Forgot to mention that I'm currently running my lights on a 20/4 schedule. Was thinking about dialing it back to 18/6 to give her a little more of a dark period, but I wasn't sure if messing with the light schedule at this point would have any ill effects. Any thoughts on this matter?


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## mr2shim (Aug 27, 2011)

You can slowly dial it back to 18/6 then to 12/12... In theory that would be more natural.


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## kriznarf (Aug 29, 2011)

Day 17:

PPM:380
PH 6.9

Unfortunately the battery for my DSLR seems to have died for good. Until I can get it replaced you'll have to forgive me for the shitty cell phone pics. On the plus side, my girl is looking awesome. One interesting thing to note is that there seem to be some little roots growing from the top of the rockwool cube. I'll snap a close-up when I get that new battery. Doesn't seem like it will be an issue, just something I haven't seen before.


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## mr2shim (Aug 29, 2011)

Mine did the same thing. Had a few roots growing out the top of the rockwool cube. They entire died or disappeared. Was kinda weird. Plant is looking very nice. How long are you gonna veg it for?


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## kriznarf (Aug 29, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> Mine did the same thing. Had a few roots growing out the top of the rockwool cube. They entire died or disappeared. Was kinda weird. Plant is looking very nice. How long are you gonna veg it for?


Hard to say at this point. But I'll likely lay the screen down and veg until she has a couple tips an inch or so through. My estimate would be a total veg time of 25-30 days.


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## widowmaker31 (Aug 29, 2011)

looking good......I got some pineapple express rockin as well.....sure smells good.....I'm on Day 24 - I have 3 going in 5gal buckets - going to put them on the flower side of my tent this week and run my Blue Diamond MH light at 500watt untill next week when I plan on switching to 12/12 with CO2 enrichment during the (day hours) and then running the Red Diamond HPS - starting it off at 500watt then 750, and then finally at 1,000watt. I then have 2 WW and 1 *Pineapple Express* in my grow cabinet that I will start flower on as well next week and only have a 175 to 250watt of HPS on them - but will enrich with CO2. 

we are pretty close in the grow - check out my pineapple in the pics - it was really stunted as I stressed the shit out of it when it was really young...lol but it bounced back and let me tell you...it's tough as nails! It's a G13 Labs strain, and I got a small little net to put inside the cabinet to sorta scrog it as well.

subbed for this grow as well - keep us posted - What are your REZ and Ambient Air Temps? I keep my rez at 67 to 69 degrees and Air Temps at 70......


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## kriznarf (Aug 30, 2011)

widowmaker31 said:


> What are your REZ and Ambient Air Temps? I keep my rez at 67 to 69 degrees and Air Temps at 70......


Thanks for the kind words. I'm super excited about this grow. Checked out your journal as well. Looking awesome. Can't wait to see how those plants do under all that light. Def subbed up.

I haven't checked my reservoir temps, actually. That's something I should probably look into. My ambient air temps fluctuate between 72-85 F. Perhaps a little hotter than I'd like, but aside from one harrowing day early on (temps ran up to 100 due to some obstructed ventilation,) she seems to be growing at a fine pace and looking pretty healthy.

I've also started to slowly dial the timing back. Working my way from a 20/4 schedule to an 18/6 schedule.


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## widowmaker31 (Aug 30, 2011)

I have been running 20/4 and it has in my opinion really allowed the plants to work harder - since I have created ideal conditions - rez temps at about 66-69f and Air Temp at about 70....they are showing the love back at me ! But to each is own....I am pretty meticulous but I have such a passion i didn't know existed until i started growing myself! Growing from seed and watching it throughout it's life is just amazing.....

looking good - keep up the good work!

widow


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Aug 30, 2011)

hey kriznarf.wow just found you. good luck with this waterfarm grow. its going to be a wonderful journey. pacific northwest..hahaha. me too! subbed for the ride! everything looks absoluetly perfecto!


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## kriznarf (Aug 30, 2011)

Dr.Amber Trichome said:


> hey kriznarf.wow just found you. good luck with this waterfarm grow. its going to be a wonderful journey. pacific northwest..hahaha. me too! subbed for the ride! everything looks absoluetly perfecto!


Cheers! I know that you're super active in this community (I peek in on your summer grow from time to time) and it's great to have someone as involved as yourself along for the ride.


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## ironheadxl (Aug 30, 2011)

dude I am so in. Scottyballs is a fuckin' hero imho an inspired grow he had ay? I have a PE 3.5 weeks from seed my first hydro and it is because of the Man! will be a watchin' over here.


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## pcn3rd (Sep 1, 2011)

looking great, definitely off to an excellent start! subbed cause I'm going to do the same strain in a cab similar in size to scottyballz but with a blackstar 240 watt from veg to flower and see what I yield


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## kriznarf (Sep 2, 2011)

pcn3rd said:


> looking great, definitely off to an excellent start! subbed cause I'm going to do the same strain in a cab similar in size to scottyballz but with a blackstar 240 watt from veg to flower and see what I yield


Awesome! I've wanted to see a Scotty grow with an LED. Doesn't seem like many LED growers scrog, or perhaps I just haven't seen the right threads. I'll have to check that out when you start up.

Just saw your speaker box! Very cool. I love micro/stealth grows. Can't wait to see how that goes.


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## kriznarf (Sep 2, 2011)

Day:20

PPM:485

Upped the nutes to 495 PPM yesterday. The res showed 485 PPM this afternoon so I think I'm in a good place. She's starting to drink more and more water. One thing that kind of blows me away is how little stretch I'm seeing. The fan leaves are getting big, but I'd say the whole plant is only four, maybe five inches tall. You may be able to tell from the pics. It's interesting comparing my own pics to Scotty's from the same period. His plant was growing faster, but seemed to have a more indica dominant phenotype. I'm not saying that my PE is a sativa dom, just that it doesn't look quite as indica heavy as Scotty's. 

I'm Likely going to start a little LST'ing in the next couple days. I'll be sure to take pics when I do. At this rate, I probably won't lay the screen down for another five to seven days and likely won't be going 12/12 until day 35 or so.


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## pcn3rd (Sep 2, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Day:20
> 
> PPM:485
> 
> ...


she's looking great! I wouldn't be worried about the slower growth compared to scottyballz. she may be smaller but she is looking HEALTHY! i'm sure growth will explode soon..


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## mr2shim (Sep 2, 2011)

Yea I wouldn't worry about it too much. Scottyballs plant grew like a true weed. Mine didn't grow all that fast in veg and it's not growing nowhere near as fast as scottyballs PE did in flower.


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## pcn3rd (Sep 2, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Awesome! I've wanted to see a Scotty grow with an LED. Doesn't seem like many LED growers scrog, or perhaps I just haven't seen the right threads. I'll have to check that out when you start up.
> 
> Just saw your speaker box! Very cool. I love micro/stealth grows. Can't wait to see how that goes.


thanks man! i've seen a few LED grows using scrog and the results are just outstanding! granted these were autoflowers in soil that were scrogged, but nonethless, yield was 2 oz per plant in 1 gallon pots.. thats pretty good for auto's in that pot size. crystal formation was beyond what anyone thought as that extra UV from the blackstar is thought to aid in the crystal production.  i'm not trying to be another LED freak but the results I've seen with the blackstar have all been beyond expectations.. I know there are better lights out that "use" more watts than the blackstar but they are also twice the price..

there was a journal on another forum where they grew 2 plants side by side.. one with a $300 blackstar 240 watt and a $600 240 watt LED (brand escapes my memory but very well known).. what they found was that the blackstar uses 135 watts of power and the other was using the full 240 watts. this raised some concerns but in the end, the difference in final product was not enough in my opinion to jusity the extra $300.. plus.. you pay for less electricity


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## kriznarf (Sep 2, 2011)

pcn3rd said:


> she's looking great! I wouldn't be worried about the slower growth compared to scottyballz. she may be smaller but she is looking HEALTHY! i'm sure growth will explode soon..





mr2shim said:


> Yea I wouldn't worry about it too much. Scottyballs plant grew like a true weed. Mine didn't grow all that fast in veg and it's not growing nowhere near as fast as scottyballs PE did in flower.


Yeah, I wasn't really worried about the slower growth. As pcn3rd pointed out, she's looking super healthy. I believe that I'm right on track. Can't wait to check her out when I get home every day.


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## kriznarf (Sep 5, 2011)

Day: 23

PPM: 570
PH: 7.4

I have to admit, I love update days! Today is something of a double edged sword. She's been looking quite healthy, however, she's also been a bit droopy. I made some changes to the setup yesterday. Cleaning out the pump column, air tubes, drip ring, etc. and re-centering the airstone. I also replaced the reservoir water completely, which I've been doing every four or five days. The fresh water was nuted to 595 PPM, so the fact that PPM is still declining a little while the water level continues to drop makes me think that I could go a little heavier with the nutes. The PH is slightly higher than I was hoping and I was wondering if this may be the reason behind the drooping, but it's not crazy high or anything at 7.4, I think. Any thoughts? 

I accidently tore the aluminum foil covering during all of the above, and I may replace it, but for now I thought I'd leave it off and see if the increased airflow helps at all.

I also attempted a little LST testing, though she didn't seem to like the bending. For all the growth that I'm seeing, she's barely stretching. The main stalk is fairly thick and only about 5 to 6 inches high. So I may go without the LST. She is a stocky little indica.

Finally, I've started to contemplate putting down the scrog screen. I'm debating the height at this point (thinking about ten inches) and would appreciate any input.

Cheers!


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## mr2shim (Sep 5, 2011)

It seems as if when you're running in a waterfarm your pH level is 7.0+ during veg then when nutes get heavy (800+) in flower it stays where it should. Mine was high all throughout veg and seemed to like it just fine.


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## kriznarf (Sep 5, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> It seems as if when you're running in a waterfarm your pH level is 7.0+ during veg then when nutes get heavy (800+) in flower it stays where it should. Mine was high all throughout veg and seemed to like it just fine.


That could very likely be a result of the pH buffers in Flora Nova. I've read that when you get to about 900 PPM, the buffers do a good job of keeping the grower from having to worry about pH.


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## kriznarf (Sep 5, 2011)

Just took a peek. She's looking great!


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## mr2shim (Sep 6, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> That could very likely be a result of the pH buffers in Flora Nova. I've read that when you get to about 900 PPM, the buffers do a good job of keeping the grower from having to worry about pH.


Flora Nova has some really good buffers. When you get up past 900 ppm doesn't matter how high you go in ppm the pH after adding it to the water (I use 7.0) It keeps the pH around 5.5



kriznarf said:


> Just took a peek. She's looking great!


Looking good, pretty short little guy.



kriznarf said:


> Finally, I've started to contemplate putting down the scrog screen. I'm debating the height at this point (thinking about ten inches) and would appreciate any input.
> 
> Cheers!


I put my screen down when it was 7" tall. I measured the distance from the screen to the bucket yesterday and it's 5" Not sure how that happened but I don't think you need an entire foot of clearance if you can make a hose to connect to the jug so you don't have to try and maneuver a gallon jug under the screen.


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## Fuzznutz (Sep 8, 2011)

Kriz - Nice grow and sweet setup... Subbed!! Keep the updates coming.

I recently grabbed the same tent for my waterfarm grow as well. Moved from outdoors and going to keep it manageable. Have a few questions I'd like to PM you about internal setup (filter, fan, etc.).


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Sep 8, 2011)

Who is this Scottyballs you guys keep talking about lol... And thanks for the tribute Kriznarf  Im glad to see so many more WF grows, seems to really have taken off since that old PE grow..
ill be checking in here and there let me know if you have any questions Kriznarf..


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## kriznarf (Sep 8, 2011)

Fuzznutz said:


> Kriz - Nice grow and sweet setup... Subbed!! Keep the updates coming.
> 
> I recently grabbed the same tent for my waterfarm grow as well. Moved from outdoors and going to keep it manageable. Have a few questions I'd like to PM you about internal setup (filter, fan, etc.).


Thanks for subbing up, Fuzz! Just got back to your PM, but I wanted to add that I'm happy to answer any questions you might have within my journal, too. Could be that other people would find your questions helpful. 

Let me know if you start a journal yourself. Sounds like we're going to have pretty similar setups when all is said and done.


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## kriznarf (Sep 8, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Who is this Scottyballs you guys keep talking about lol... And thanks for the tribute Kriznarf  Im glad to see so many more WF grows, seems to really have taken off since that old PE grow..
> ill be checking in here and there let me know if you have any questions Kriznarf..


Scotty, my man, really glad to see you tuning in. I wasn't sure how active you were on RIU these days. Thanks again for creating your original journal and taking the time to answer all those questions. I've learned a lot from you! 

My first question/concern is related to my plant seeming a little droopy. As if those large fan leaves are just too heavy for the plant to fully support sometimes. Again, this is just a bit of drooping. She's not wilting at all. It doesn't seem to be that big of a problem though as she looks very healthy otherwise. Despite being a few days behind where you were at this stage (with regard to plant size) she's growing very well. Should be laying the screen down in a day or two.

I also always meant to ask for your thoughts on using an air-stone in the reservoir. Don't think you used one (at least you never mentioned it,) but other growers seem to have good results with that particular addition. Mr2shim and I were discussing this a while back. We're both currently using air-stones. 

Stay tuned for an update tonight! Finally got a new battery for my DSLR, too. The pics should bump back up in quality as a result.


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## ironheadxl (Sep 8, 2011)

yeah man get some pics in here! I have the PE and the Buddha bubble going strong and of course no camera, but in two weeks I will beging flowering. I think I had bleach contaimant in the hydroton in my WF so I had to ixnay the seedling there will start over with fresh 'ton like I SHOULD have in the first place... ah well


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## Dayzt (Sep 8, 2011)

Hey Kriz - sorry i'm so late for the party!! ..just got back from vacation!

Wow, things are looking really good - you may want to start some training on her and just pull her 'open' a bit to help things spread out - just a thought.  Keep it up!


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## kriznarf (Sep 8, 2011)

Day: 26

PPM: 650

Baked. 

I fucking love coming home to this plant every day! She's looking great. Glad to have my DSLR in action again, too. Love taking some of those close up shots.

Did a little bit of testing before diving into the LST and that central stalk really didn't seem to like the bending. But with how she's bushing out now, I think I'm okay skipping on the early LST and laying down the screen in the near future. 

Not much in the way of concerns. Bumped to 650 PPM during my last reservoir change, which was the day before yesterday, I think. I tend to check once or twice a day and PPM has remained constant since. 

>implying that nutes are on target.

Some of those big lower leaves still seem a bit droopy, but since the plant seems to be healthy otherwise, I haven't been too concerned. Part of me thinks they're just too big for the plant to support. 

weed nerds.


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## kriznarf (Sep 8, 2011)

Dayzt said:


> Hey Kriz - sorry i'm so late for the party!! ..just got back from vacation!
> 
> Wow, things are looking really good - you may want to start some training on her and just pull her 'open' a bit to help things spread out - just a thought.  Keep it up!


This is a great idea and I will totally do this. Cheers.


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## Dayzt (Sep 8, 2011)

Right on man - you can really see the branching coming up nicely from below. As you gently pull it apart, that lower stuff will thank you for it - you're gonna have a big bushy plant, I can already tell!!


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## Hobgoblit (Sep 8, 2011)

Subbed up + rep, seriously got to get one of these.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Sep 8, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Scotty, my man, really glad to see you tuning in. I wasn't sure how active you were on RIU these days. Thanks again for creating your original journal and taking the time to answer all those questions. I've learned a lot from you!
> 
> My first question/concern is related to my plant seeming a little droopy. As if those large fan leaves are just too heavy for the plant to fully support sometimes. Again, this is just a bit of drooping. She's not wilting at all. It doesn't seem to be that big of a problem though as she looks very healthy otherwise. Despite being a few days behind where you were at this stage (with regard to plant size) she's growing very well. Should be laying the screen down in a day or two.
> 
> ...


As for the leaves drooping that fine you will notice when in flower they will perk up right before the lights come on and will start to droop when the lights are about to go out.. Im not sure exactly why this happens I guess the plant is resting and waking up.. but during vege its also fine dont worry about that at all them leaves can get heavy..

As for a bubble wond in the resivor been there done that seen no difrence I had a overkill pump too for a 150 gallon fish tank.. roots looked no better and no difrence in yeild.. the water farms are already capable of packing the lower res and upper grow bucket with a brick of roots another line and bubble wond is just going to take up room imo.. also bubles them selves dont add much O2 to the water its the agitation of the surface layer where air meets water that 95% of the exchange happens..

That said think about it every drop of water that go's over the hydroton is surface layer water that is the key why waterfarms perform the way they do with the root system.. if you see somone with not so good looking roots with a WF its do to over fertilization.. or adding things that dont need to be in there... 

also note the roots will turn a light brown orangish color from the hydroton and nutes.. so dont be alarmed .. 

99% of the time if you have root rot its from damage from over ferting.. you will see signs from the smell of your water (like somthing died) and a lower water uptake then normal, Like if your plant was drinking a gallon of water a day then it starts cutting back. If you start seeing these signs flush with straight water for a few days then start back off at 1/2 strength.. I do most of my grows at 1/2 anyway its a 1000 times better to add less nutes then to much..


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## Declectic (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm sub'd......... gotta see this!!!


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## Fuzznutz (Sep 9, 2011)

Kriz - Thanks for the PM reply. I'll hit you up with questions on your journal from now on. Damn, those are some monster fan leaves. Think I've got more of a sat. PE strain from G13. You lady is looking fat and happy. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like in flower.

When you change/add water or nutes are you just pouring over the Hyd. Plan on using a funnel or tubing once screen is down?


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## kriznarf (Sep 9, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> As for the leaves drooping that fine you will notice when in flower they will perk up right before the lights come on and will start to droop when the lights are about to go out.. Im not sure exactly why this happens I guess the plant is resting and waking up.. but during vege its also fine dont worry about that at all them leaves can get heavy..


Yeah, I have noticed this "waking up" situation that you're describing. Most of the plant goes through that process on a daily basis, it's just those big fan leaves at the bottom that never seem to pick up. This is why I think that they're just too damn heavy for my girl, ha. Not too worried here.



> As for a bubble wond in the resivor been there done that seen no difrence I had a overkill pump too for a 150 gallon fish tank.. roots looked no better and no difrence in yeild.. the water farms are already capable of packing the lower res and upper grow bucket with a brick of roots another line and bubble wond is just going to take up room imo.. also bubles them selves dont add much O2 to the water its the agitation of the surface layer where air meets water that 95% of the exchange happens..
> 
> That said think about it every drop of water that go's over the hydroton is surface layer water that is the key why waterfarms perform the way they do with the root system.. if you see somone with not so good looking roots with a WF its do to over fertilization.. or adding things that dont need to be in there...
> 
> ...


Yeah, this confirms a lot of what I was thinking earlier. That if you're using a beefier air pump and have drilled the extra holes in the upper chamber of the waterfarm, you probably don't need an air stone in the reservoir. Pretty sure that Dayzt didn't use one in his Tangerine Dream grow, which turned out super well. That said, I've already got one in there and probably won't remove it at this point. I know it's taking up a little space, but if it isn't hurting the system then I'd rather not mess with it.

Thanks for the quick response! These are things I've been curious about for a while.


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## kriznarf (Sep 9, 2011)

Declectic said:


> I'm sub'd......... gotta see this!!!


Thanks for tuning in! Hope this turns out to be just as impressive as the other Scotty grows floating around right now.


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## mr2shim (Sep 9, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Thanks for tuning in! Hope this turns out to be just as impressive as the other Scotty grows floating around right now.


I'm confident it will.


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## kriznarf (Sep 9, 2011)

Fuzznutz said:


> Kriz - Thanks for the PM reply. I'll hit you up with questions on your journal from now on. Damn, those are some monster fan leaves. Think I've got more of a sat. PE strain from G13. You lady is looking fat and happy. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like in flower.
> 
> When you change/add water or nutes are you just pouring over the Hyd. Plan on using a funnel or tubing once screen is down?


Yeah, I just pour it back over the hydroton. I'm debating the screen height right now, but I did pick up a funnel kit just in case.


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## kriznarf (Sep 9, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> I'm confident it will.


Ha, thanks man. Homework done, fingers crossed.


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## pcn3rd (Sep 9, 2011)

She's looking awesome man! those lower fan leaves are HUGE!! LOL


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## Declectic (Sep 9, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Thanks for tuning in! Hope this turns out to be just as impressive as the other Scotty grows floating around right now.


 I hope so too I'm taking notes!


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## mears220 (Sep 10, 2011)

hey kriznarf just a quick question how long do you run your airpump iv just bought an aquafarm and i'm abit wary about how many times a day do you run yor airpump and for how long thanks in advance


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## pcn3rd (Sep 10, 2011)

mears220 said:


> hey kriznarf just a quick question how long do you run your airpump iv just bought an aquafarm and i'm abit wary about how many times a day do you run yor airpump and for how long thanks in advance


first off, its recommended you get yourself a different airpump than the one that comes with the waterfarm. You can go to Walmart or similar and get yourself an aquarium pump rated for up to 50 gallons.. they are like 10 bucks..

As for for when you should run the pump.... You do *NOT *turn your pump off as its basically breathing for your plants roots and it doesn't take long for those roots to get damaged when the pump is off.. hope this helps 

edit:
I just saw you posted that you bought an aquafarm.. i do not know what kind of pump they come with but i'll leave my original recommendation just in case..


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## mears220 (Sep 10, 2011)

pcn3rd said:


> first off, its recommended you get yourself a different airpump than the one that comes with the waterfarm. You can go to Walmart or similar and get yourself an aquarium pump rated for up to 50 gallons.. they are like 10 bucks..
> 
> As for for when you should run the pump.... You do *NOT *turn your pump off as its basically breathing for your plants roots and it doesn't take long for those roots to get damaged when the pump is off.. hope this helps
> 
> ...


 thanks for the advice mate i was think that but iv seen allot of people saying different things just wanted to no for sure +rep and sorry kriznaf for jacking your journal abit


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## ironheadxl (Sep 10, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> This is a great idea and I will totally do this. Cheers.


 so totally agree, I have been LST-ing my plants and am amazed at how fast they respond with helio centric movemet in fact I tied the Western Winds down about 11 pm last night pretty flat and darned if it had not only turned to face the sun but had shot up an inch at least. Main point is those minor leaves have turned into major growth! Whooo hoo baby! I was thinking screening at about 8 inches high.
One other thing I like to do now is to keep a spare res. on hand and now switch them whenever I need to change solutions / flush, bam work is done! BTW so nice of Scottyballs to drop in like that, cool.


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## kriznarf (Sep 11, 2011)

mears220 said:


> thanks for the advice mate i was think that but iv seen allot of people saying different things just wanted to no for sure +rep and sorry kriznaf for jacking your journal abit


It's cool. And pcn3rd is totally right. Get a better air pump than the stock pump that comes with the aquafarm. Leave it on 24/7. My pump is total overkill for a single waterfarm, but I believe this is one of those areas where it's much better to over do it than to under do it.


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## kriznarf (Sep 11, 2011)

Day: 29

PPM: 650
PH: 6.8
Feeling: Good

She's looking great. Haven't done any true LST'ing, but I have been training her side branches out a bit just by working the fan leaves in particular ways. Doing my best to expose those side branches to as much light as possible. Looks to be spreading her out pretty well. 

PPM started to creep up a bit. Was about 775 yesterday morning. Added about a gallon of fresh water at 450, which brought the PPM to about 650. It's stayed there through a couple testings since, so I'm thinking this a good level for now. She's certainly drinking a lot more.

Pretty Excited to be laying the screen down later today. I'm still debating the height a bit, but I'll probably go with 10 or 11 inches. Can't wait to start training her into that perfect canopy.

This shit is way too much fun.


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## mr2shim (Sep 11, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Day: 29
> 
> PPM: 650
> PH: 6.8
> ...


By the way that is looking it is going to fill up the tent now. Mine plant was smaller than that when i switched and my tent is 36x20


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## kriznarf (Sep 11, 2011)

Screen up! Decided to go about ten inches. Looks like I'll be flipping in 3-5 days.


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## mr2shim (Sep 11, 2011)

Man that's a nice setup, how's the negative pressure once you close the tent? Great job on the screen.


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## kriznarf (Sep 12, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> Man that's a nice setup, how's the negative pressure once you close the tent? Great job on the screen.


Negative pressure/airflow is decent. Temps stay between 75 F and 85 F, depending on the time of day/ambient temperature. I'll be happy to get the HPS bulb up. The MH puts out a lot of heat. 

It's worth noting that my fan is only 200 CFM. A few people I consulted said that 200 CFM would be more than enough for a tent of my size, but on those rare hot days, I wish that I had a 400 CFM to really keep things cool.


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## Hobgoblit (Sep 12, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Negative pressure/airflow is decent. Temps stay between 75 F and 85 F, depending on the time of day/ambient temperature. I'll be happy to get the HPS bulb up. The MH puts out a lot of heat.
> 
> It's worth noting that my fan is only 200 CFM. A few people I consulted said that 200 CFM would be more than enough for a tent of my size, but on those rare hot days, I wish that I had a 400 CFM to really keep things cool.


 I use 6 inch industrial server fans. Like a computer fan, but way larger. Back in the day I probably would have laughed if someone told me that. I have 2, and just had to say they rock on so many levels. High output, really light weight, and almost no heat. The best part is you can pick them up on ebay for cheap, both mine cost me $50.


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## mr.green123 (Sep 12, 2011)

nice grow mate very clean set up subbed


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## kriznarf (Sep 12, 2011)

mr.green123 said:


> nice grow mate very clean set up subbed


Much appreciated. Hope you enjoy the grow!


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## Declectic (Sep 12, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> how's the negative pressure once you close the tent?


what exactly does this mean?


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## mr2shim (Sep 12, 2011)

Declectic said:


> what exactly does this mean?


Example. Take a box, seal it up completely, stick a fan in it with one exhaust hole that is sealed as well, so air only has one way in and one way out. you do NOT connect the exhaust fan to the inlet, but rather have the fan suck air up from the bottom, it creates a negative pressure. 

Basically you don't need an intake fan to have airflow inside the tent. Check out my grow, my setup is like this. I have some detailed pictures to get a visual of it somewhere in the first few pages.


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## Fuzznutz (Sep 12, 2011)

So Kriz, Are you saying I should go for a 400 CFM? Still researching fans. Need something quite and dependable. Although I do understand that most, if not all, the sound is generated by airflow making it's way thought the ducting. Give me your thoughts before I pull the trigger.

BTW: Still looking good. Really like the clean, stream lined look. You must be as anal retentive as me.


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## kriznarf (Sep 12, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> Example. Take a box, seal it up completely, stick a fan in it with one exhaust hole that is sealed as well, so air only has one way in and one way out. you do NOT connect the exhaust fan to the inlet, but rather have the fan suck air up from the bottom, it creates a negative pressure.
> 
> Basically you don't need an intake fan to have airflow inside the tent. Check out my grow, my setup is like this. I have some detailed pictures to get a visual of it somewhere in the first few pages.


Actually, negative pressure is caused by a build up of negatons, the tiny dust-like particles that often flake off of unwashed hydroton. They fill the air, which puts a "negative" pressure on the plant's dignaltary system. 

Don't believe mr2shim's lies.


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## Dayzt (Sep 12, 2011)

negatons...lol...


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## kriznarf (Sep 12, 2011)

Fuzznutz said:


> So Kriz, Are you saying I should go for a 400 CFM? Still researching fans. Need something quite and dependable. Although I do understand that most, if not all, the sound is generated by airflow making it's way thought the ducting. Give me your thoughts before I pull the trigger.
> 
> BTW: Still looking good. Really like the clean, stream lined look. You must be as anal retentive as me.


I would certainly look into a 400 CFM fan, though you probably don't need one. There have really only been a couple of days where I wished I had one, but ambient temps were really high on those days. I rarely have temperature control issues with my 200 CFM fan. 

I've heard that a 400 CFM fan doesn't make that much more noise than a 200, but I can't speak on that personally. I'm sure you could find decibel counts somewhere online. Also, I'm not so sure you're on point about the noise issue. My fan is certainly the loudest part of my system, as opposed to the moving air itself. This was the case even before I installed the muffler. 

And thanks for the compliments. Yeah, I'm pretty detail oriented.


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## mr2shim (Sep 12, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Actually, negative pressure is caused by a build up of negatons, the tiny dust-like particles that often flake off of unwashed hydroton. They fill the air, which puts a "negative" pressure on the plant's dignaltary system.
> 
> Don't believe mr2shim's lies.


lol'd,. haha

My fan is also by far the loudest part of my setup. I thought the air pump as loud before the fan arrived.


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## kriznarf (Sep 14, 2011)

Day: 32

PPM: 825

Been a few days. Continuously pleased with how she's doing. I lowered the light and bumped her nutes to 825 PPM yesterday, which has held constant since. 

I check on her so often it's hard for me to realize how quickly she's still growing. I've started to train the tops into the screen. You may be able to see a slight curve in the main stalk. Hopefully it's not too late to keep working it towards the edge. Curse me for not jumping on that LST when I should have! 

I'm thinking that I'll be flipping to 12/12 and throwing up the HPS in three days, which will be day 35. Super excited for that 12/12 stretch!


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## Dayzt (Sep 14, 2011)

Still looking great kriz! I have to agree with you - some LST earlier on would have given you a wider plant at this point, but it wouldn't be that close to the screen. Once your lights are flipped though, you'll be able to really start moving those arms out to the edges.

I have to say, I am SO going to steal your idea with those clamps you're using to mount the screen - where did you buy them? They're ultra adjustable I'll bet...excellent idea! I'm glad I won't be having to build legs for the screen or mess with more twist-tie on it. I'll be building my 2 new screens with half-inch pvc piping and corners, then adding the small eyelets along each side before 'racketing' the string across it - it all looks great in my head..we'll see.


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## mr2shim (Sep 15, 2011)

Dayzt said:


> Still looking great kriz! I have to agree with you - some LST earlier on would have given you a wider plant at this point, but it wouldn't be that close to the screen. Once your lights are flipped though, you'll be able to really start moving those arms out to the edges.
> 
> I have to say, I am SO going to steal your idea with those clamps you're using to mount the screen - where did you buy them? They're ultra adjustable I'll bet...excellent idea! I'm glad I won't be having to build legs for the screen or mess with more twist-tie on it. I'll be building my 2 new screens with half-inch pvc piping and corners, then adding the small eyelets along each side before 'racketing' the string across it - it all looks great in my head..we'll see.


 You and me both, that is a great idea a lot better than zip ties.


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## kriznarf (Sep 15, 2011)

The clamps are awesome, for sure. I picked them up at a mom & pop hardware store down the street from my place, but I bet you can find similar gear at most hardware stores. They were about $3 each. Dayzt, your future screen sounds damn nice. Can't wait to see that come together.


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## Dayzt (Sep 17, 2011)

Hey kriz - I'm too lazy to search... what did you grow in your first round? I was just looking back at the pics you posted in the first post of this journal and it didn't say what it was... cheers!


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## kriznarf (Sep 17, 2011)

Dayzt said:


> Hey kriz - I'm too lazy to search... what did you grow in your first round? I was just looking back at the pics you posted in the first post of this journal and it didn't say what it was... cheers!


My first grow was a total comedy of errors (as I'm sure most people's first grows are.) Still, I learned a ton and was super excited for round 2. The first grow was a soil grow (Fox Farms Ocean Forest) in Smart Pots. Fox Farm Nutes and an HPS all the way through. The two plants on the left were DNA's 60-Day Wonder (William's Wonder x Ruderalis,) which looks and tastes great with a nice, mellow high. Though I have to say, 90-Day Wonder is probably a more appropriate name, ha. The two plants on the right (the lollipop looking guys) are BC Mango, which looks frosted as hell and has an awesome fruity taste and smell. The BC Mango wasn't feminized, so I realized after I'd ordered it that I probably shouldn't use it for my current grow, but I didn't want them to go to waste. I dialed back the lights to 12/12 (they had previously been at 20/4 for the autoflowering guys, which may have something to do with why they took 90 days to finish) and started the Mango as a 12/12 from seed experiment, hoping the two would finish at the same time. In the end I pulled about 6.4 ounces, 75% of which was the 60-Day Wonder. I've attached some nug porn below. At this point they have been curing for about 8 weeks. The 60-Day Wonder is on the left and the BC Mango is on the right.

Look for updates on my current grow tonight! Put up the HPS and flipped to 12/12 last night. Super excited!


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## ironheadxl (Sep 17, 2011)

very cool nugs.. I have a western winds that is 12/12 from seed they say it basically flowers from the start and it sure looks like it now at the 1.3 month mark. Lst'd it too - five main colas are starting to form . So did you dial the lights down this time or just flipped to 12/12 right away? Oh yeah harvested a barney's cheese I care took for a buddy yesterday. Oh my is that some glorious stank going on he had to flower it early still pulled a (wet) 37.4 gram bud heh heh.


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## kriznarf (Sep 17, 2011)

Day 35, or Day 1 of 12/12!

PPM: 910

Wow, I forgot how much that HPS really washes out the pictures. Any tips on that? 

She's growing at a healthy rate and drinking a ton. Hard to tell from the pics, but she's looking to be a slightly lighter shade of green than I'd like. Nutes had dropped to 720 before I filled the reservoir with a fresh 2 gal of 910. 

I also dismantled the pump column and drip ring. Washed everything out really well with warm water. Took out a fan leaf from the main stalk in the process. Might not be so bad, though. Could slow down the growth of the central stalk a bit, allowing the others to catch up. 

As you can see, I've started to train the tops as best I can, working them outward. At the same time I've been tucking some of the larger fan leaves back under the screen. In a couple days I've already learned a lot about how to be handling those stems/leaves.

Really excited to be flowering.


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## mr2shim (Sep 17, 2011)

Only tip I have is if you're using a DSLR put the white balance on tungsten. I haven't messed around with settings much but that's the best I can get with it right now. Looking good. That plant is definitely going to fill out that screen.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Sep 19, 2011)

You can try to set the white balance with white peice of paper under the HPS some cameras can adjust for it.. also use the flash wich will throw out some extra blue.. even with my s95 under full manual controls not all pictures come out that great.. I like to sneak in when the lights are off to snap pictures with the flash makes the crystals glow...


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## kriznarf (Sep 21, 2011)

Day: 4 (12/12) 38 Total

EC: 2.1 (Approx. 1050 ppm)

Just a quick update here. Been bothering my girl at least once a day. Probably fussing with her too much when it comes to how and where I should train her. I've already learned quite a bit about how I should be handling those stems and leaves. I was a bit afraid to really get in there and mess with her early on (hence the lack of pre-scrog LST,) but now I'm much more aware of what she can actually handle.

You may have also noticed that I posted my reservoir's EC for the first time. Pretty sure I broke my Hanna meter by submerging it too far into my test cup. I bought a Blue Lab Truncheon to replace it. Everybody tells me they're the best. I've been pretty impressed so far. 

Next update on Thursday. Hoping to find some time to play with my DSLR so that I can get some better shots. For whatever reason my White Balance was locked, but I couldn't find the setting that would allow me to change it.

Now it is time to sleep.


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## AWnox (Sep 21, 2011)

She looks awesome Kriznarf, subbed! One question though early on did you do any form of topping or fimming? She looks likes she has multiple tops.


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## Declectic (Sep 21, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> Only tip I have is if you're using a DSLR put the white balance on tungsten.


QFT


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## widowmaker31 (Sep 21, 2011)

looking nice.....should start filling that screen up real soon!

what nute line up are you using?


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## kriznarf (Sep 21, 2011)

AWnox said:


> She looks awesome Kriznarf, subbed! One question though early on did you do any form of topping or fimming? She looks likes she has multiple tops.


No topping or FIM'ing. As soon as I started training her into that screen growth shifted to those areas that were exposed to the light. New tops popped in to fill those empty spaces in the canopy. I'll try to get a pic of all the new tops coming up from around the central stalk. 



widowmaker31 said:


> looking nice.....should start filling that screen up real soon!
> 
> what nute line up are you using?


Just Flora Nova Bloom through the entire grow, which is basically Lucas Formula. Couldn't really get much easier than this and I've seen some amazing results.


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## widowmaker31 (Sep 21, 2011)

right on I couldn't agree with you more.....looks like the girls are going to reward you quite nice at the end! Looking very good! 

widow


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## kriznarf (Sep 21, 2011)

widowmaker31 said:


> right on I couldn't agree with you more.....looks like the girls are going to reward you quite nice at the end! Looking very good!
> 
> widow


Thanks man. Yeah, I love working with this plant.


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## kriznarf (Sep 21, 2011)

She drank a gallon in the last 24 hours. EC popped up to 2.4 (1200 ppm.) Looks like I was a bit heavy on the nutes. Added a gallon of fresh water with a lower concentration of nutes, bringing the EC to 2.0 (1000 ppm.) I'm cool with that.

More training today. Took a few pics, too. Did my best to play with the White Balance, but sadly there is no tungsten setting on my DSLR. I wasn't able to find a good fit. However, I did zap the pics with a little of Picasa's "I'm feeling lucky" button. They're still heavy on those warm colors, but it's a bit better. You can really see some of the new tops coming in to fill the canopy. I also took a pic of the main stem, which is taking to the training pretty well.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Sep 22, 2011)

kriznarf...nice grow....

I was curious...Does the screen stay in the same place for the whole grow ? Or do you move it up as the plant gets larger ?


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## kriznarf (Sep 22, 2011)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> kriznarf...nice grow....
> 
> I was curious...Does the screen stay in the same place for the whole grow ? Or do you move it up as the plant gets larger ?


Thanks man! 

The Screen stays locked in place. Some scroggers have setups that allow for the screen to move around a bit, but you generally want to keep the plant from pushing the screen up and potentially unbalancing that even canopy. Scroggers that use very flexible materials to make their screens sometimes have problems in this area, too. 

The height at which you initially place the screen depends upon the strain you're growing. For a stout little indica, the screen could be set about 8 inches up, though a leggy sativa would probably need 12 inches. Some early LST is def going to help when it comes to early scrog training. Something else to think about is how you're going to work around the screen when it comes to re-filling your reservoir or performing maitenance on your gear (assuming you're using a waterfarm/aquafarm or dwc kit.)


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## Hobgoblit (Sep 22, 2011)

How close together can you scrog 2 plants? I'm thinking of down sizing to 2 pots in my tent, noway I could do 4.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Sep 22, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Thanks man!
> 
> The Screen stays locked in place. Some scroggers have setups that allow for the screen to move around a bit, but you generally want to keep the plant from pushing the screen up and potentially unbalancing that even canopy. Scroggers that use very flexible materials to make their screens sometimes have problems in this area, too.
> 
> The height at which you initially place the screen depends upon the strain you're growing. For a stout little indica, the screen could be set about 8 inches up, though a leggy sativa would probably need 12 inches. Some early LST is def going to help when it comes to early scrog training. Something else to think about is how you're going to work around the screen when it comes to re-filling your reservoir or performing maitenance on your gear (assuming you're using a waterfarm/aquafarm or dwc kit.)


thanks for the response..I am already in the middle of a soil grow...but i am considering a waterfarm perhaps at some point...I just really like the scrog technique you employ...it seems to be the least amount of stress when it comes to bending,lst, etc a plant...
My grow space is small but kinda tall....its about 18" wide 28" deep, and over 7 ft high...I'm growing Skunk Haze (sativa) and from what I gather this can grow tall.....I'm at exactly 4 weeks of vegging now....

So if and when i decide to scrog I would probably leave the screen in place? and then what happens ? Do just the colas grow straight up then ?

thanks again, SC


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## mr2shim (Sep 22, 2011)

Hobgoblit said:


> How close together can you scrog 2 plants? I'm thinking of down sizing to 2 pots in my tent, noway I could do 4.


I'd go for at least 2' apart. More close to 3. My single plant filled up my 36" long screen.


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## kriznarf (Sep 22, 2011)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> thanks for the response..I am already in the middle of a soil grow...but i am considering a waterfarm perhaps at some point...I just really like the scrog technique you employ...it seems to be the least amount of stress when it comes to bending,lst, etc a plant...
> My grow space is small but kinda tall....its about 18" wide 28" deep, and over 7 ft high...I'm growing Skunk Haze (sativa) and from what I gather this can grow tall.....I'm at exactly 4 weeks of vegging now....
> 
> So if and when i decide to scrog I would probably leave the screen in place? and then what happens ? Do just the colas grow straight up then ?
> ...


No problem. A proper scrog requires the grower to train the plant as it grows into the screen. Simply put, once a top is about four inches above the screen, cup your hand around the top and attached fan leaves, holding them together, and gently pull the top back under the screen. Then move the top to a further spot on the screen and gently push it back through. The attached image is pretty helpful here. 

The screen should be placed once you're about twenty days into your grow. By then you should have a good idea at where the screen height should be. If you're growing in hydro, once the screen is about 1/5 full, you can flip to 12/12. If you're growing in soil, wait until the screen is about 1/3 full before flipping to 12/12. The bulk of your training will happen in the five days before you flip and during the following two weeks. Once the screen is full and the tops are even, just let her grow. Eventually you'll want to clear out the foliage and popcorn that remains under the screen, but that should be a slow process (like one fan leaf per day) so as not to stress the plant. 

Your main goal is to create an even canopy. The more even the canopy, the more impressive your growth will be. By training the plant out and exposing previously covered areas to the light, you're essentially changing how and where the plant distributes its growth hormones. You'll begin to see tops shoot up to fill those empty spaces that you just created. Rather than putting its energy into a single main/top cola, the plant will distribute its resources evenly across the canopy. If done properly and with care, the results are absolutely impressive.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Sep 22, 2011)

hmmm...thanks for that informative answer...for some reason my plant at 4 weeks is a shirt bush with lots of tight nodes...from what I gather I don't want to stretch her to gain more height.......It's so bushy a screen would do nothing at this point


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## kriznarf (Sep 22, 2011)

Hobgoblit said:


> How close together can you scrog 2 plants? I'm thinking of down sizing to 2 pots in my tent, noway I could do 4.


mr2shim has it right. Depending on the size of your tent, you may only need one plant. My tent is only 3 x 3 and it's def going to fill up. If you were going 4 x 4, two plants might be called for. It's probably worth noting that light is the main limiting factor here. If you're growing under a 400, one plant should be great, 600, go for two, 1,000, step up to four. This is all assuming you're using a scrog to maximize on light exposure.


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## kriznarf (Sep 22, 2011)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> hmmm...thanks for that informative answer...for some reason my plant at 4 weeks is a shirt bush with lots of tight nodes...from what I gather I don't want to stretch her to gain more height.......It's so bushy a screen would do nothing at this point


Just wait till you flip to 12/12. I'm sure that sativa will show her legs.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Sep 22, 2011)

haha ok thanks kriz....I guess we shall see....


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## kriznarf (Sep 22, 2011)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> haha ok thanks kriz....I guess we shall see....


It's not too late to start a journal or at least take some pics! I'd love to see.


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## ironheadxl (Sep 22, 2011)

" Rather than putting its energy into a single main/top cola, the plant will distribute its resources evenly across the canopy. If done properly and with care, the results are absolutely impressive."
So cool lol and yeah I have been LST ing the bejeezus out of my plants, looks like a bizarre bondage website in that grow room.I do have a question though and mind you I am fast approaching a two month veg mark on the Buddha cheese and pineapple express. so Ive got these branches that are individual tops if you will right? How many sets of leaves do you recomend before I throw the switch? Normal grow in dirt I veg 1,5 months and boom it goes. now I am in hydro with lst for the first time and have no clue. getting impatient and may throw it tomorrow we will see. sucks no pics am working on that as I want a journal and ya'll can come over and bust me on it lol.


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## matatan (Sep 24, 2011)

subbed, kinda late but i have arrived! 
i plan on doing a 2 plant scrog with PE and ak48, they are on day 16 and 23 of veg. very interested watching your lady do her thing gives me a heads up of what to expect. 

looking good kriz!


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## AWnox (Sep 24, 2011)

Awesome read every time from first to last page I've read this thread about 10 times already. Thanks for the great info and journal. I'm also about to try out my first WF with a Kalashnikova from GH, i'm a bit afraid of the herme tendencies so fingers crossed til then. It's a breed between a WW and AK-47 so hopefully it'll be some good ganja in the end of it all. In any case I was wondering about how you feed or add nutes to the water reservoir. I have read some people just pour it over the hydroton and drain the reservoir using the blue tube on the side of the WF? Any advice on doing that? I know you change or check your nuts every few days or at least once a week right so how do you go about doing so? Also when you have the screen how the heck are you gonna drain the reservoir or add nutes if not by draining it and adding it through the top? Between this grow, SCOTTYBALLS and Mr.2Shim I got all the motivation I need to go WFing, can't wait to start my journal. (Still waiting on the tude to deliver the goodies). Thanks for your time. 

rep ++


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## mr2shim (Sep 24, 2011)

AWnox said:


> Awesome read every time from first to last page I've read this thread about 10 times already. Thanks for the great info and journal. I'm also about to try out my first WF with a Kalashnikova from GH, i'm a bit afraid of the herme tendencies so fingers crossed til then. It's a breed between a WW and AK-47 so hopefully it'll be some good ganja in the end of it all. In any case I was wondering about how you feed or add nutes to the water reservoir. I have read some people just pour it over the hydroton and drain the reservoir using the blue tube on the side of the WF? Any advice on doing that? I know you change or check your nuts every few days or at least once a week right so how do you go about doing so? Also when you have the screen how the heck are you gonna drain the reservoir or add nutes if not by draining it and adding it through the top? Between this grow, SCOTTYBALLS and Mr.2Shim I got all the motivation I need to go WFing, can't wait to start my journal. (Still waiting on the tude to deliver the goodies). Thanks for your time.
> 
> rep ++


Here's what you do. When you go to add nute water back to the res you just pour it over the hydroton. Every 7-10 days you want to drain out everything and add back fresh nute water. Everyday you should check the pH ppm and EC if possible. When the scrog screen is down you either need to have it 12" away from the waterfarm to get a gallon jug in there, or you need to make a hose that will allow you to refill without having to put the jug under the screen. I went with the latter. Draining the res with the screen in is just as easy as when it isn't. It's best to practice leaving the waterfarm in one place when draining/adding so you can develop a good system by time the screen goes down. The blue tube is for checking water level and draining res. When I drain I use a pan that can hold about 2 gallons. First I drain it into an empty gallon jug then pour it into the pan. You'll get the hang of it once you get everything. It will all become clear. I had the same questions before I got my waterfarm then I was like "oooh I get it."

Maker sure you get a journal going with lots of pictures and details of your setup. Are you also going to be using a 400w mh/hps?


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## corvetteguy (Sep 24, 2011)

Hello Kriz I have been watching alot of these waterfarm grows, and I am interested in trying it myself. If you don't mind I have a couple questions for you. First I was wondering how difficult a waterfarm would be to maintain compared to other forms of hydro such as hempy, dwc, flood and drain, ect.? And secondly how much greater do you think your average yield would be with the waterfarm as opposed to the same set up with soil? I realy like your set up and I am considering doing somthing similar with 800 watts in a 3ft x 5ft closet, but I am not sure that I know enough about it yet. Thank you for taking the time to share your grow. Good luck and happy growing.


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## AWnox (Sep 24, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> Here's what you do. When you go to add nute water back to the res you just pour it over the hydroton. Every 7-10 days you want to drain out everything and add back fresh nute water. Everyday you should check the pH ppm and EC if possible. When the scrog screen is down you either need to have it 12" away from the waterfarm to get a gallon jug in there, or you need to make a hose that will allow you to refill without having to put the jug under the screen. I went with the latter. Draining the res with the screen in is just as easy as when it isn't. It's best to practice leaving the waterfarm in one place when draining/adding so you can develop a good system by time the screen goes down. The blue tube is for checking water level and draining res. When I drain I use a pan that can hold about 2 gallons. First I drain it into an empty gallon jug then pour it into the pan. You'll get the hang of it once you get everything. It will all become clear. I had the same questions before I got my waterfarm then I was like "oooh I get it."
> 
> Maker sure you get a journal going with lots of pictures and details of your setup. Are you also going to be using a 400w mh/hps?


I just had one of those "oooh I get it" moments when I read your reply, thanks for that one, tuly informative. I do plan to be very thorough with the journal very much looking forward to it. About the light no, I am going to have to go with a smaller setup; dual 27W Daylight Balanced 5500k for seedling, 250W MH for veg and 250W HPS for flower. Space is about 26'' wide 18'' deep and 60'' tall.


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## xgiovanni03x (Sep 27, 2011)

nice stuff man im also starting to grow auto's. was thinking about scrog but wasnt sure but after sum gj with ppl using them i got to say it can be really impressive.


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## Captain Planet (Sep 27, 2011)

awesometo see to many prople using the screen!i have 1 pineapple bean i got for free, a little scepticle of the bud. i got sum once and it wasnt that great, but then again i didnt grow it  lol jk sorry that sounds cocky


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## Dayzt (Sep 27, 2011)

Hey guys - thought i'd add my 2 c here...

I think sometimes people start to really over-think the whole waterfarm thing - it's incredibly simple. The most commonly asked question is the method(s) used to change the rez, especially after the screen is in place. Like mr2 said, make sure you leave yourself enough room between the top of the WF and the screen - usually about a foot to a foot and a half is fine. You also want to make sure to have something underneath your waterfarm so it's got 2-3 inches between the floor and the bottom - this way you can lower the tube below the bottom-level and get every last drop of water out of the rez. When draining the rez through the tube, use a low-profile container or tub - I use the large rectangle Ziploc tub ( http://www.ziploc.ca/en/products/containers/snap-n-seal.aspx ). You can fill this container about half-way each time and it only takes 3-4 tubs like that. Use the reverse method to add your fresh water/nuts back. Also a great idea - mr2 and kriz both do this I think - get a large funnel and a 1" flexible tube, and run it down through the top of your screen to the top of the waterfarm - use the funnel/tube to do your add-backs...

I think someone needs to do a detailed video or slideshow of this method and add a seperate post on this forum for these steps...

As far as checking your pH and ppm - I use a small cup and take a sample from the tube as well. It's a good idea to take 2-3 different samples and test each, taking the average from them all, but I usually just do a single test. One thing to note - testing your ppm and pH right after changing out the rez is not always accurate - it's best to give it 5-6 hrs before taking a sample, or just wait until the next day. Remember that when your water-level goes down, the concentration of nutes will usually go up - less water, higher ppms - this means your plant is drinking more water than it's eating nutes. Using that example, you can kinda see how it works.


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## mr2shim (Sep 27, 2011)

Yea I use a funnel because my screen is only 5-6" away from the bucket. Basically it's a cap off a 1 gallon jug with a hole in it and a hose just like the one on the waterfarm stuck through the hole. I sealed the gap and use that to fill it.


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## kriznarf (Sep 27, 2011)

matatan said:


> subbed, kinda late but i have arrived!
> i plan on doing a 2 plant scrog with PE and ak48, they are on day 16 and 23 of veg. very interested watching your lady do her thing gives me a heads up of what to expect.
> 
> looking good kriz!


Thanks for the sub. With regard to the PE, I can tell you now that you'll want to start her training early. That main stalk came in thick and stocky. Did not want to bend at all.


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## kriznarf (Sep 27, 2011)

AWnox said:


> Awesome read every time from first to last page I've read this thread about 10 times already. Thanks for the great info and journal. I'm also about to try out my first WF with a Kalashnikova from GH, i'm a bit afraid of the herme tendencies so fingers crossed til then. It's a breed between a WW and AK-47 so hopefully it'll be some good ganja in the end of it all. In any case I was wondering about how you feed or add nutes to the water reservoir. I have read some people just pour it over the hydroton and drain the reservoir using the blue tube on the side of the WF? Any advice on doing that? I know you change or check your nuts every few days or at least once a week right so how do you go about doing so? Also when you have the screen how the heck are you gonna drain the reservoir or add nutes if not by draining it and adding it through the top? Between this grow, SCOTTYBALLS and Mr.2Shim I got all the motivation I need to go WFing, can't wait to start my journal. (Still waiting on the tude to deliver the goodies). Thanks for your time.
> 
> rep ++


Much appreciated, AW. I would def encourage you to check out the grows of the two guys who were kind enough to answer your questions while I was away. mr2shim and Dayzt are great resources. Use them. Use them hard.


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## kriznarf (Sep 27, 2011)

xgiovanni03x said:


> nice stuff man im also starting to grow auto's. was thinking about scrog but wasnt sure but after sum gj with ppl using them i got to say it can be really impressive.


I'd love to hear a report on scrogging some autos. I hear it's difficult. Not being able to control when flowering begins makes a traditional scrog strategy into a tricky endeavor. With a photoperiod plant, you can flip to 12/12 and start flowering when you feel that a target proportion of your screen is filled (probably 1/5 if hydro, 1/3 if soil.) Training your plant into the screen is best done during the stretch that begins after flipping to 12/12, or when you believe flowering has begun if you're growing autos. The signs that the shift has occurred might be tough to recognize early on (with autos) and you might start that training a little late. Either way, train your plants. Train the fuck out of them (gently.) If you can promote a more even canopy, you'll going to see more bulked out tops.


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## kriznarf (Sep 27, 2011)

corvetteguy said:


> Hello Kriz I have been watching alot of these waterfarm grows, and I am interested in trying it myself. If you don't mind I have a couple questions for you. First I was wondering how difficult a waterfarm would be to maintain compared to other forms of hydro such as hempy, dwc, flood and drain, ect.? And secondly how much greater do you think your average yield would be with the waterfarm as opposed to the same set up with soil? I realy like your set up and I am considering doing somthing similar with 800 watts in a 3ft x 5ft closet, but I am not sure that I know enough about it yet. Thank you for taking the time to share your grow. Good luck and happy growing.


Thanks for the encouragement! I haven't grown in hempy myself, but I have built a couple DWC kits. They're great and could be comparable to a waterfarm (depending on how well they're designed,) but in the end I would would say that the waterfarm has the edge. I'm not sure that I have enough experience with soil or hydro growing to make a specific estimate regarding a greater yield with hydro, but I will say that you're going to see faster growth in hydro, which may result in a higher yield as well. If you've never done either, I would recommend going with soil for your first grow. It's more forgiving and you can still get a great yield if you're LST'ing and/or scrogging. 

In the space you're thinking about, I believe that 2-4 plants, scrogged under two 400's would be great (2 plants if hydro, maybe 4 if soil.) If you'd really like to try hydro, go with DWC's or waterfarms. If you *really* want to do 4 plants in a hydro setup *and* you're feeling crafty, I'd highly suggest looking into RDWC and undercurrent systems. Hobgoblit (he's in here somewhere!) has an awesome DIY undercurrent setup that I highly recommend checking out. 

Flood & drain (generally better for a higher number of smaller plants or a sog) and Ebb & Flow systems are probably best for larger grows. That said, if plant limits aren't your concern, looking into a sog strategy is worth your time. Sog grows are considered to be the most efficient (in terms of how often you're cropping and the weight you're pulling per watt,) but they're also very work intensive.


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## kriznarf (Sep 27, 2011)

Captain Planet said:


> awesometo see to many prople using the screen!i have 1 pineapple bean i got for free, a little scepticle of the bud. i got sum once and it wasnt that great, but then again i didnt grow it  lol jk sorry that sounds cocky


Yeah, I'm loving the scrog. I probably won't grow without some sort of trellis and/or screen ever again.

Regarding the Pineapple Express: You'll be eating those words when you see my hot fire, ha!


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## kriznarf (Sep 27, 2011)

mr2shim, Dayzt,

Thanks for keeping the thread going while I was on a little vacation. I'd rep you both if I could!


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## kriznarf (Sep 27, 2011)

Day 10 (12/12) or 44 (total)

EC 1.9 (950 ppm)

Been a little while! Got in yesterday after a long weekend away and couldn't believe the new growth. I hadn't been away from her for more than a single day since she sprouted, so this was a real exercise in patience. 

Left her in the caring hands of the whitest Hawaiian I know. He did a solid job training her out in my absence. Similar to Scotty's experience, that main stalk just didn't want to bend and split on my buddy. Doesn't seem to be much of an issue, however, as it basically slowed the growth of the main top and is helping keep everything in line. Perhaps having an effect similar to supercropping?

She's easily drinking over a gallon a day. I'm keeping her at about 950 ppm. And as you can see, that screen is almost full. I'm thinking a few more days of training, and it's time to let her grow. Started clipping the undergrowth, too. Only about two of those lower fan leaves each day.

Cheers


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## mr2shim (Sep 28, 2011)

That is looking really great. The main stem just doesn't like to bend does it? Mine snapped on me too. How far away is your screen from the waterfarm? I like your setup, very clean. Does the light get hot since it's not air cooled?


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## kriznarf (Sep 28, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> That is looking really great. The main stem just doesn't like to bend does it? Mine snapped on me too. How far away is your screen from the waterfarm? I like your setup, very clean. Does the light get hot since it's not air cooled?


Much thanks man. And yeah, that main stem just doesn't like to bend. Lesson learned, a little pre-LST before scrog is a great idea. 

I believe that the screen is about 10.5 inches from the top of the waterfarm, but it may have slipped down a bit. I'll remeasure tonight.

The light doesn't get too hot. When the MH bulb was up, it was more of an issue, but the HPS doesn't run as hot. I keep one of my clip-on fans trained on the light and that certainly helps to keep temps in a reasonable range. Also, my tent is actually located in a closet that's off a balcony, which means that it's a semi-outdoor tent grow. I have my timer set so that the lights are turning on at 5pm, thus actually keeping the tent warm (about 72-76 F) during the cooler evenings. Temps slip to about 62-65 F when the lights are off (during the actual day,) which seems like a perfect range. I do have a reflector that I could use to air-cool the light. That's how I had my system rigged for my previous grow (see 1st post,) but I took a little of Scotty's advice and I'm trying the open reflector in order to put once less barrier between the light and the plant. Light being the limiting factor in most indoor grows, I'm trying to push for every last lumen that I can get.


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## AWnox (Sep 28, 2011)

Kriznarf, If I may ask; is the order in which you have your setup: Filter --> Exhaust Fan --> Muffler ? or Muffler -->Exhaust Fan-->Filter? I can't seem to make them out in your most recent pics. Looks very organized though very professional, props for that.


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## kriznarf (Sep 28, 2011)

AWnox said:


> Kriznarf, If I may ask; is the order in which you have your setup: Filter --> Exhaust Fan --> Muffler ? or Muffler -->Exhaust Fan-->Filter? I can't seem to make them out in your most recent pics. Looks very organized though very professional, props for that.


Thanks again. The order of my system is Filter > Exhaust Fan > Muffler. If you were adding a light, it would be Filter > Light > Exhaust Fan > Muffler. Couple things: I'm not sure how much the relatively small mufflers (like mine) really help to reduce noise in a system of this size. At this level, most of the noise comes from the actual fan itself, rather than from the air moving through the ducting, which is what the muffler serves to dampen. Also, looking back at that pic, it looks like it's probably time to wash my pre-filter. I've been told that washing your pre-filter (the white sock around the filter) every three months will help to extend the life of your filter significantly.


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## ironheadxl (Sep 28, 2011)

Kriznarf do you see what appears to be hairs on the stalks? Maybe trich hairs? Mine is loaded with them and stink like a plant in flower, so much so that when I cam home today the whole house had a PE scent. I need glasses so it's hard for me to focus in and truly describe them sorry. also yeah main stalk just does not want to play ball.


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## mr2shim (Sep 28, 2011)

ironheadxl said:


> Kriznarf do you see what appears to be hairs on the stalks? Maybe trich hairs? Mine is loaded with them and stink like a plant in flower, so much so that when I cam home today the whole house had a PE scent. I need glasses so it's hard for me to focus in and truly describe them sorry. also yeah main stalk just does not want to play ball.


You might want to invest in a carbon filter if your whole house is smelling.


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## ironheadxl (Sep 29, 2011)

yeah I know it Mr2shim for sure flipped the lights this morning so it's a gonna be a rocking in a day or two, going to have to go home made because the budget is tight this year bro.


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## mr2shim (Sep 29, 2011)

ironheadxl said:


> yeah I know it Mr2shim for sure flipped the lights this morning so it's a gonna be a rocking in a day or two, going to have to go home made because the budget is tight this year bro.


Yea I can def understand that.


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## kriznarf (Sep 29, 2011)

ironheadxl said:


> Kriznarf do you see what appears to be hairs on the stalks? Maybe trich hairs? Mine is loaded with them and stink like a plant in flower, so much so that when I cam home today the whole house had a PE scent. I need glasses so it's hard for me to focus in and truly describe them sorry. also yeah main stalk just does not want to play ball.


Pretty sure that you're talking about your first pistils, which are basically the female sex organs of the plant. You could think of them as pollen catchers. They're much bigger than trichomes, or the "crystals" as most people think of them. The fact that you're seeing them is a good thing. It means that your girl is sexually mature and ready to flower. I just noticed them on my PE for the first time last night, actually.

And mr2shim is right, you should seriously look into some smell control if it's already a problem after just having flipped to 12/12. It's going to get way worse. I hear that PE is a fragrant strain! Pretty sure there is a good thread on RIU about DIY carbon filters. Probably worth searching for in your situation.


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## ironheadxl (Sep 29, 2011)

well yeah pistils I know but this thing is covered in hairs all along the stalk, I well try to get a pic.

BTW note the sig I haz a journal beeechez. so lame lol but there it is. Post any damned advice you can 'cause homie be needing it.


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## jaydub360 (Sep 30, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> I'd love to hear a report on scrogging some autos. I hear it's difficult. Not being able to control when flowering begins makes a traditional scrog strategy into a tricky endeavor. With a photoperiod plant, you can flip to 12/12 and start flowering when you feel that a target proportion of your screen is filled (probably 1/5 if hydro, 1/3 if soil.)


Lookin nice Kriz..subbed. I just received my Afghan Kush Ryder (auto) seeds a couple of days ago, I'm a noob doin a lot of research before I plop down the cash for my setup. Anyway, I like many others have become a big fan of Scottyballs' waterfarm setup and after considering soil for my first grow I have decided to go the hydro route.

My question for you is what would you suggest for a 4 plant system as far as the size of the tent? I also got a free seed from the Attitude, Royal Queen Seeds "Ice" feminized. Should I grow it together with the Afhgan Kush or is it better to grow one strain at a time? I may be overthinking this but would four plants scrogged with 2 different strains be too complicated for a first timer? Should I simplify with maybe only 2 plants, one strain?

Thanks for sharing... between you, Scotty, and others I have gained more knowledge and insight in the last few weeks than I have in the last year that I've been doing research...Much success to you. PEACE


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## AWnox (Oct 1, 2011)

Kriznarf why can't you just use the MH from when you put the seedling in the WF? I will be using a 250W and at 2 feet from the WF it doesn't seem to be hot at all , I also have a 6 inch fan blowing horizontally between the light and the WF. Would this work or would you still recommend using cfl for the seedling stage? Just seems as if this was a "real world" scenario if the seed germinated and popped during a very sunny day it would be the same as a MH so why not start out strong and get her used to the light from the beginning? A 400W I would understand more because of the delicate stage she's in with the higher intensity but with a 250W would you still recommend using CFL for the seedlings? The more light the better isn't it?

Edited.: The more I read the more I am confused. The majority of people here on RIU and other sites is that they use CFL or a t5 for early veg but this does not make complete sense to me. It sounds like it's too "pampering" for the plant to start out like that with a soft light. If there is no over heating on the seedling, good ventilation, it's not burning it and the temps are kept within range why not use the MH from the get go? Some people here say to cut down on electricity bills but aren't you going to have to buy a t5 or some CFL's anyway and to only use for a week or two then never again (or until your next grow), so basically the money that your "saving" by not using the MH for the first week or two your spending it on the CFL's and/or t5 so it's basically the same thing. Don't get me wrong I enjoy and am a fan of being thorough but it seems that it's not necessary if/when you can control the temps and the heat released from the MH. I rather have her start her life with as much light as possible to give her the best start possible. Maybe having the light farther as she's in seedling and move it down as she get's stronger? 

P.S.: I apologize if I am high jacking your journal friend, just thought I'd ask you seeing your success with the WF's and the people that follow these grows. Thank you.


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## kriznarf (Oct 1, 2011)

jaydub360 said:


> Lookin nice Kriz..subbed. I just received my Afghan Kush Ryder (auto) seeds a couple of days ago, I'm a noob doin a lot of research before I plop down the cash for my setup. Anyway, I like many others have become a big fan of Scottyballs' waterfarm setup and after considering soil for my first grow I have decided to go the hydro route.
> 
> My question for you is what would you suggest for a 4 plant system as far as the size of the tent? I also got a free seed from the Attitude, Royal Queen Seeds "Ice" feminized. Should I grow it together with the Afhgan Kush or is it better to grow one strain at a time? I may be overthinking this but would four plants scrogged with 2 different strains be too complicated for a first timer? Should I simplify with maybe only 2 plants, one strain?
> 
> Thanks for sharing... between you, Scotty, and others I have gained more knowledge and insight in the last few weeks than I have in the last year that I've been doing research...Much success to you. PEACE


Thanks, jay. 

For four plants, I would want at least 4x4, especially if you're thinking about trying to scrog. A 5x5 tent would be best. Also, for four plants in a square space, you're going to want a lot of light, 1000w or two 600w's. If that's more than you were thinking about using, I'd strongly consider two plants under a 600w or two 400w's. I would look into both Dayzt's current grow and Hobgoblit's current grow (they have both commented in this journal.) Dayzt has two plants in waterfarms under a 600w, scrogging, and Hobgoblit has three plants in a 3x3 under a 400w, not scrogged, but in a really cool DIY undercurrent set, which is worth checking out. May give you some ideas.

With regard to growing the two strains together, there are a couple things to consider. They're both indica heavy strains, so that may be reason to hope for relatively even heights among your plants, which is an argument for growing them together. However, the fact that Afghan Kush is an auto and the ICE isn't may be a good reason not to grow them together. The autos are probably going to do best under 20-4 through their entire life cycle, but if the ICE were in there, you'd have to flip to 12-12 at some point, which would certainly cut into the yield on those autos. Perhaps the benefit of having a fourth plant will outweigh any loss in yield related to going 12-12 on the three autos, but you'd need a lot of light to grow four plants for max yield.

Perhaps I'm rambling here, but if it wasn't clear, you can certainly grow your three-four plants in a 3x3 under a 400w, but if you're growing in a space of that size and with that amount of light, it's more efficient to just roll with one-two plants at a time and just scrog. Scorg + autos could be tricky, though, as you clearly read before, ha.


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## kriznarf (Oct 1, 2011)

AWnox said:


> Kriznarf why can't you just use the MH from when you put the seedling in the WF? I will be using a 250W and at 2 feet from the WF it doesn't seem to be hot at all , I also have a 6 inch fan blowing horizontally between the light and the WF. Would this work or would you still recommend using cfl for the seedling stage? Just seems as if this was a "real world" scenario if the seed germinated and popped during a very sunny day it would be the same as a MH so why not start out strong and get her used to the light from the beginning? A 400W I would understand more because of the delicate stage she's in with the higher intensity but with a 250W would you still recommend using CFL for the seedlings? The more light the better isn't it?
> 
> Edited.: The more I read the more I am confused. The majority of people here on RIU and other sites is that they use CFL or a t5 for early veg but this does not make complete sense to me. It sounds like it's too "pampering" for the plant to start out like that with a soft light. If there is no over heating on the seedling, good ventilation, it's not burning it and the temps are kept within range why not use the MH from the get go? Some people here say to cut down on electricity bills but aren't you going to have to buy a t5 or some CFL's anyway and to only use for a week or two then never again (or until your next grow), so basically the money that your "saving" by not using the MH for the first week or two your spending it on the CFL's and/or t5 so it's basically the same thing. Don't get me wrong I enjoy and am a fan of being thorough but it seems that it's not necessary if/when you can control the temps and the heat released from the MH. I rather have her start her life with as much light as possible to give her the best start possible. Maybe having the light farther as she's in seedling and move it down as she get's stronger?
> 
> P.S.: I apologize if I am high jacking your journal friend, just thought I'd ask you seeing your success with the WF's and the people that follow these grows. Thank you.


My digi-ballast is 400w only. A 400w MH is too much for a seedling. If the lamp were placed up high, I'm sure you could counter the light's intensity to a certain degree, but it just makes more sense to go with CFL's or a T5/T8 kit (electricity, heat, etc.) I'd rather use a 400w MH through the bulk of my veg than a 250w, so it doesn't really make sense for me to have a second ballast and another bulb, when a CFL/T5/T8 kit is cheaper.

I've read that 250w MH is great for early plant growth, but they can still put out some heat. A little seedling doesn't really need quite that much light, either. Your assumption that in nature a seedling would be exposed to the full brunt of the sun is probably less likely than you'd think. Not many plants grow solitary in wide open spaces. There are generally other plants around them, bigger plants, when you consider our seedling. These plants provide some shade early on, which results in the seedling stretching and growing tall enough to find it's place in the canopy (where the blood bath begins!)

And no apologies needed. You're totally welcome to ask questions here.


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## AWnox (Oct 1, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> My digi-ballast is 400w only. A 400w MH is too much for a seedling. If the lamp were placed up high, I'm sure you could counter the light's intensity to a certain degree, but it just makes more sense to go with CFL's or a T5/T8 kit (electricity, heat, etc.) I'd rather use a 400w MH through the bulk of my veg than a 250w, so it doesn't really make sense for me to have a second ballast and another bulb, when a CFL/T5/T8 kit is cheaper.
> 
> I've read that 250w MH is great for early plant growth, but they can still put out some heat. A little seedling doesn't really need quite that much light, either. Your assumption that in nature a seedling would be exposed to the full brunt of the sun is probably less likely than you'd think. Not many plants grow in solitary spaces. There are generally other plants around them, bigger plants, when you consider our seedling.  These plants provide some shade early on, which results in the seedling stretching and growing tall to find it's place in the canopy (where the blood bath begins!)


Thanks for your reply Kriznarf. About your reply; I am using the 250W throughout the entire grow, I wasn't even considering another light, I have a smaller space than yours (17''x26''x60'') so I figured I needed a less intense light than the 400W, it just seemed like an overkill for my space. I agree with your point about other vegetation being less likely to be grown in isolated areas, although you can't argue that it does occur and I'm sure they do just as fine as the ones that pop out in a shade. My query was about the light itself, the intensity rather. Considering that there's sufficient cool wind blowing across it and the heat on the seedling itself is minimal would you say it would be safe and beneficial to start her off with the 250W if I did not want to use a CFL or a t5 or anything else? I know I am probably over thinking this and nature will probably do it's thing without any special techniques or knowledge, just wanted to have some of the pros P.O.V. Thanks for your time and btw your grow looks superb.

+rep


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## kriznarf (Oct 1, 2011)

AWnox said:


> Thanks for your reply Kriznarf. About your reply; I am using the 250W throughout the entire grow, I wasn't even considering another light, I have a smaller space than yours (17''x26''x60'') so I figured I needed a less intense light than the 400W, it just seemed like an overkill for my space. I agree with your point about other vegetation being less likely to be grown in isolated areas, although you can't argue that it does occur and I'm sure they do just as fine as the ones that pop out in a shade. My query was about the light itself, the intensity rather. Considering that there's sufficient cool wind blowing across it and the heat on the seedling itself is minimal would you say it would be safe and beneficial to start her off with the 250W if I did not want to use a CFL or a t5 or anything else? I know I am probably over thinking this and nature will probably do it's thing without any special techniques or knowledge, just wanted to have some of the pros P.O.V. Thanks for your time and btw your grow looks superb.
> 
> +rep


Ha, I get you man. Yeah, 250w will be fine early on. You may want to look up Sr. Verde. He grew some Tangerine Dream under a 250w that looked beastly. And thanks for the rep! Be sure to link to your journal if you start one and best of luck!


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## kriznarf (Oct 3, 2011)

Day 15 (12/12) Day 49 (Total)

EC 2.2 (1100ppm)

Pretty much stopped training her about two days ago. There are a couple empty spots in the corners of my screen, but I'm not too concerned. Light would be much weaker in those areas anyway. 

Just as mr2shim and Dayzt have described, there are tops that seem to have slight deficiencies and tops that seem to be slightly over nuted. I'm guessing she'll even out in time, especially now that she's through her training. EC is staying pretty steady at about 2.1-2.2, despite the fact that she's drinking a gallon a day.

All in all, things are going great and she's looking fantastic. Growth is still surprising, easily adding 1-2 inches of height each day. Bud sites are really taking shape as well, with pistils starting to explode all over.

Good times.


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## mr2shim (Oct 3, 2011)

Don't worry about the empty spots. It's good to have them around the edges so the buds won't lean against the tent. It'll grow up and fill in that spot and you won't even see it after a little while. She's looking great for day 15 of 12/12.


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## kriznarf (Oct 3, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> Don't worry about the empty spots. It's good to have them around the edges so the buds won't lean against the tent. It'll grow up and fill in that spot and you won't even see it after a little while. She's looking great for day 15 of 12/12.


Much appreciated, mr2. 

Forgot to mention that I'm slowly trimming the undergrowth. Every day I pull a fan leaf or small side branch that wasn't going to ever make it to the canopy. Want to keep this process slow and the stress as low as possible.


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## AWnox (Oct 3, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Much appreciated, mr2.
> 
> Forgot to mention that I'm slowly trimming the undergrowth. Every day I pull a fan leaf or small side branch that wasn't going to ever make it to the canopy. Want to keep this process slow and the stress as low as possible.


I was just about to point that out too Kriznarf, you shouldn't just trim all the bottom growth at once right? What kind of consequences can you expect if you do trim the bottom growth all at once? 

Third pic is my favforite btw, it's crazy to see all that growth come out of a single WF; and to think there's alot more to grow. Great progress!


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## mr2shim (Oct 3, 2011)

AWnox said:


> I was just about to point that out too Kriznarf, you shouldn't just trim all the bottom growth at once right? What kind of consequences can you expect if you do trim the bottom growth all at once?
> 
> Third pic is my favforite btw, it's crazy to see all that growth come out of a single WF; and to think there's alot more to grow. Great progress!


I trimmed mine all at once. I don't think it really did anything. I think it's more less personal preference. Although nothing is wrong with trimming in stages, def would be less stressful to the plant.


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## kriznarf (Oct 3, 2011)

AWnox said:


> I was just about to point that out too Kriznarf, you shouldn't just trim all the bottom growth at once right? What kind of consequences can you expect if you do trim the bottom growth all at once?
> 
> Third pic is my favforite btw, it's crazy to see all that growth come out of a single WF; and to think there's alot more to grow. Great progress!


Thanks, AW. I love those scrog profile shots, too. 

It's generally not a great idea to trim all the undergrowth at once. Doing so may shock the plant, slowing growth above the canopy for a day or more. Also, with all the pruning, you're opening up a lot of sites on your plant to infection. Only pulling a leaf (or two) or secondary stem on a given day helps cut into these risks. That said, I think mr2shim clipped the bulk of his undergrowth in a single day and I don't know if it slowed him down all that much. His plant is looking great now, so clearly a single clip session can be done. If you do choose to go the slower route, try and wait till a leaf is showing signs of decay or is approximately 50% dead before you pull it. The slow death of the undergrowth will speed up as your canopy fills in and blocks out the light.


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## kriznarf (Oct 3, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> I trimmed mine all at once. I don't think it really did anything. I think it's more less personal preference. Although nothing is wrong with trimming in stages, def would be less stressful to the plant.


Ha, you beat me to it again! I was just writing about how you just trimmed your girl in a single day, but didn't seem to have any problems.


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## mr2shim (Oct 3, 2011)

Overall I think it's best to wait until they die off on their own or clip here and there because when you cut them all off at once, your plant has to seal all of those open spots and that I can imagine takes a good bit of energy to do at once.


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## Hobgoblit (Oct 3, 2011)

Filling in nicely my friend, bet you can't wait for some nug porn. I personally have a serious itch for this technique, looks to be the best for yield, regardless of the system. Keep it up, I'll be following.


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## Dayzt (Oct 3, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Day 15 (12/12) Day 49 (Total)
> 
> EC 2.2 (1100ppm)
> 
> ...


Looking great man - keep 'er up! Things are going to start shooting straight up now!


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## ironheadxl (Oct 3, 2011)

man I hit the flower mode with the lights Dayzt my pe is a stretchy pheno, stretching like a yoga class in there.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Oct 4, 2011)

Kriznarf, for what its worth I usally trim everything under the screen all at once.. it heals itself within a few hours and it can get on with its life of growing.. the small under growth I call them suckers (small shoots of bud sites) get rid of them asap they are what is going to rob you of nutrients of the main bud sites and will result in nothing but poor airy popcorn like buds below the screen.. that energy will be deverted to the main tops giving you 20-30 donkey dicks.. fan leaves you can leave alone, I use the fan leaves for vertical hight control... if I have a few tops that are a inch or two taller then the rest I will knock off a few fan leaves giving a chance for the rest of the sites to catch up..


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## ironheadxl (Oct 4, 2011)

Scotty could you check the journal of mine and add insight? tried to pm but too buzzed to figure that out right now lol

> Dayzt looking good man, awesomeness on the way no doubt!


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## snap1234 (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi Kriznarf, been following your grow and it looks amazing. Congrats on on it so far, just had a quick question about your setup. Do you keep both of your small clip-on fans on their highest power at all times or do you vary it all?


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## silasraven (Oct 4, 2011)

you wouldnt happen to remember the humidity? threw the grow? even a guess range works


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

snap1234 said:


> Hi Kriznarf, been following your grow and it looks amazing. Congrats on on it so far, just had a quick question about your setup. Do you keep both of your small clip-on fans on their highest power at all times or do you vary it all?


Thanks, snap. I keep them both on full strength. I think it would be hard to overdo it with these little clip-on guys. Speaking of, the clips on these Air King fans are weak.


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

silasraven said:


> you wouldnt happen to remember the humidity? threw the grow? even a guess range works


As my grow is a semi-outdoor grow, I don't have as much control over the humidity as I'd like. It ranges from 60-80% (ideally you'd want it around 50%,) but I try to keep a lot of airflow in the tent to counteract any potential humidity-related problems. It's def the reason that I have that lower fan trained on the main stem. Keeping that sucker as dry as possible. Seems to be working out.


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

Dayzt said:


> Looking great man - keep 'er up! Things are going to start shooting straight up now!


Thanks, Dayzt. Been loving your current grow, too. Can't wait to see how your VK does. I have ten beans just waiting to be germed. I'm also thinking about stepping up to a 600w setup in a new space. Planning it out now, which has been a lot of fun.


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

Day 18 (12/12) Day 52 (Total)

I still can't believe how fast she's growing. I never saw growth this explosive when I was working with soil. She's still drinking about a gallon a day, but EC was starting to run up on me. It was at 2.7 (1350 ppm) when I checked her at lights on. This was up from an EC of 2.4 (1200 ppm) the previous day. I just added about 1.25 gallons at 1.8 EC (900 ppm) to bring her down. I'll check the rez again in an hour or so and see if I should dilute her a little more.

Took some of Scotty's advice and pruned all of the smaller branches under the screen that just weren't going to make it. Otherwise, I'm going to leave the lower fan leaves until they start to die off.

Can't wait to see what she does in the next 30-40 days. Oh, and I promise to work on figuring out a decent setting for my camera. Maybe.


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## Dayzt (Oct 7, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Day 18 (12/12) Day 52 (Total)
> 
> I still can't believe how fast she's growing. I never saw growth this explosive when I was working with soil. She's still drinking about a gallon a day, but EC was starting to run up on me. It was at 2.7 (1350 ppm) when I checked her at lights on. This was up from an EC 2.4 (1200 ppm) the previous day. I just added about 1.25 gallons at 1.8 EC (900 ppm) to bring her down. I'll check the rez again in an hour or so and see if I should dilute her a little more.
> 
> ...


Awesome Kriz - you're killing it!! (in a good way..lol) Keep it up - you can look forward to some great buds as these start to really fill-in - very impressive!!


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## Hobgoblit (Oct 7, 2011)

What kind of PPM meter are you using? Do you know the conversion rate to EC? I keep mine around 2.0-2.2. I personally leveled out @ 1100, with no rise @ all. They are consuming 200ish and 3 gallons a day. My advice...Flush more often, and back off till your PPM stabilizes. Other than that your plants look amazing, can't wait to try scrog.


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

Hobgoblit said:


> What kind of PPM meter are you using? Do you know the conversion rate to EC? I keep mine around 2.0-2.2. I personally leveled out @ 1100, with no rise @ all. They are consuming 200ish and 3 gallons a day. My advice...Flush more often, and back off till your PPM stabilizes. Other than that your plants look amazing, can't wait to try scrog.


She's drinking so much that it's basically a fully refreshed reservoir every other day. That said, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to run a couple gallons of filtered water, without nutes, through the system before draining and refilling with some 1.8 (900 ppm) solution. I know that I'm being a little aggressive by going for that 2.2 (1100 ppm,) and I've heard that Pineapple Express can be sensitive to the nutes. Considering that light is most certainly the limiting factor (and not nutes,) I'll dial it back to 1.8 (900 ppm) after a rinse through tonight.

EC to PPM, multiply by 1,000, then divide by 2. EC 2.1 x 1,000 = 2,100. 2,100/2 = 1050 (PPM)

Oh and I know it was probably a typo, but that's just one plant in there, ha!


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

Dayzt said:


> Awesome Kriz - you're killing it!! (in a good way..lol) Keep it up - you can look forward to some great buds as these start to really fill-in - very impressive!!


Thanks man! Very happy with how things are going. Can't wait to see this girl fatten up over the next 35-40 days!


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## Hobgoblit (Oct 7, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Oh and I know it was probably a typo, but that's just one plant in there, ha!


Yeah, I'm high, what can I say....


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

Hobgoblit said:


> Yeah, I'm high, what can I say....


I had no idea you smoked weed.

Slightly appalled.


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## Hobgoblit (Oct 7, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> I had no idea you smoked weed.
> 
> Slightly appalled.


Funny shit, but I don't really remember saying I smoke weed, lol Actually, I use a vaporizer since I gave up the cigs. Cost alot, but man I can breath so much better now.


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## Kudzuchron (Oct 7, 2011)

Finally sub'd to your journal, mang, but I've been following all along. 

Looking awesome! Can't wait to see those babies pop!


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

Kudzuchron said:


> Finally sub'd to your journal, mang, but I've been following all along.
> 
> Looking awesome! Can't wait to see those babies pop!


pffft, nerd.


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## mr2shim (Oct 7, 2011)

Best advice I can give you with the camera is to put the white balance on tungsten and get a few ND filters.


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## Hobgoblit (Oct 7, 2011)

Or turn off the HPS and use the flash.


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

mr2shim said:


> Best advice I can give you with the camera is to put the white balance on tungsten and get a few ND filters.


Ha, you've already given me this advice, stoner. My DSLR has no tungsten setting for white balance, but there must be a proper setting I can use. Just haven't figured it out yet. I'll look into the ND filters. Or maybe I'll just suck it up and take my pics right before lights on or right after lights off.


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## kriznarf (Oct 7, 2011)

Hobgoblit said:


> Or turn off the HPS and use the flash.


The obvious solution and probably the best. I guess I just hate depriving my girl of even a few minutes of precious light, heh.


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## mr2shim (Oct 7, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Ha, you've already given me this advice, stoner. My DSLR has no tungsten setting for white balance, but there must be a proper setting I can use. Just haven't figured it out yet. I'll look into the ND filters. Or maybe I'll just suck it up and take my pics right before lights on or right after lights off.


I did? haha. I wasn't sure who I said that to. I'm more tired than high today. Next to no sleep last night. Your grow is looking primo btw. You're gonna have a ton of bud in there.


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## snap1234 (Oct 7, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Day 18 (12/12) Day 52 (Total)
> 
> I still can't believe how fast she's growing. I never saw growth this explosive when I was working with soil. She's still drinking about a gallon a day, but EC was starting to run up on me. It was at 2.7 (1350 ppm) when I checked her at lights on. This was up from an EC of 2.4 (1200 ppm) the previous day. I just added about 1.25 gallons at 1.8 EC (900 ppm) to bring her down. I'll check the rez again in an hour or so and see if I should dilute her a little more.
> 
> ...


Looks awesome Kriz! How do you like your Jardin? Do you think a DR120 II with a 600 MH/HPS set-up would be overkill for just one plant if I was utilizing a water-farm for the grow scrogging it? I like your set-up alot, just wondering if I could go a little bigger in the veg. and have a little more headroom as well if I got a DR120II with a 600. But wasn't sure if that might be overkill for just one plant.


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## xgiovanni03x (Oct 7, 2011)

fucking love it man! i cant wait to get my Waterfarm  !


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## kriznarf (Oct 10, 2011)

snap1234 said:


> Looks awesome Kriz! How do you like your Jardin? Do you think a DR120 II with a 600 MH/HPS set-up would be overkill for just one plant if I was utilizing a water-farm for the grow scrogging it? I like your set-up alot, just wondering if I could go a little bigger in the veg. and have a little more headroom as well if I got a DR120II with a 600. But wasn't sure if that might be overkill for just one plant.


Hey snap, you could def run a single plant in a 120 under a 600 and just veg a little longer. I would certainly recommend some early LST if you were going that route. That said, you could easily run two plants in a space like that and it would seriously cut down on your grow time. The second waterfarm isn't a huge expense and if you're getting a beefier pump, you can probably run both off of the same airpump. Check out Dayzt's current grow for sure. He's got two plants in waterfarms under a 600, I think. I'm just now realizing he may be putting each plant under its own light at some point... ha, baked.


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## kriznarf (Oct 10, 2011)

xgiovanni03x said:


> fucking love it man! i cant wait to get my Waterfarm  !


Thanks man. Yeah, I'm loving mine so far, best of luck with yours.


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## kriznarf (Oct 10, 2011)

Thought I'd have the time to sit down and write a full update. That will have to come later. Figure you wouldn't mind some fresh pics in the meantime...


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## mr2shim (Oct 10, 2011)

Man, that is looking so good already!


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## Kudzuchron (Oct 11, 2011)

There she is! Looking good, so much growth since the last peep. Really filled out the screen 

The third pic shows some upward movement on the screen threads. Any concern there?


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## nattybongo (Oct 11, 2011)

Subbed bro!
Every-ting is looking great! Can't wait to see the end product.

I'm still doing my research but i'll be gettin my WF grow on soon.
I'll be making a journal once it's on teh go.


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## kriznarf (Oct 12, 2011)

nattybongo said:


> Subbed bro!
> Every-ting is looking great! Can't wait to see the end product.
> 
> I'm still doing my research but i'll be gettin my WF grow on soon.
> I'll be making a journal once it's on teh go.


Thanks man. Best of luck with your own grow. I'm loving the waterfarm/scrog. Throw up a link to your journal when you start it up!


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## kriznarf (Oct 12, 2011)

Kudzuchron said:


> There she is! Looking good, so much growth since the last peep. Really filled out the screen
> 
> The third pic shows some upward movement on the screen threads. Any concern there?


You have have a tiny nose that looks ridiculous on your face.

Not too concerned about the upward movement of the screen. That's pretty much to be expected in the center of your screen where the light is most intense. The lines are tied pretty tight and won't allow too much movement, but i'd rather they have a little give than none at all. In that pic it also looks much more pronounced than it actually is because it's really only that one line on the side that's pushed that far up.

Tapping for green...


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## Kudzuchron (Oct 13, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> You have have a tiny nose that looks ridiculous on your face.
> 
> Not too concerned about the upward movement of the screen. That's pretty much to be expected in the center of your screen where the light is most intense. The lines are tied pretty tight and won't allow too much movement, but i'd rather they have a little give than none at all. In that pic it also looks much more pronounced than it actually is because it's really only that one line on the side that's pushed that far up.
> 
> Tapping for green...


Ha! I wish my nose were smaller ... 

Yeah, after the in person peep last night, looks like it is only pushing up the first thread of that screen. No big indeed. 

Tapping for green on that Snoop was bamb! So much clarity in the haze!


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## AWnox (Oct 14, 2011)

Kriznarf! Update Update Update!  I know it's been 4 days but it's always good and "hope giving" to see your results (gives me confidence in my first WF grow I'm doing  ). I'm having a bit of trouble with the main stem though, she doesn't seem to find a place to stay "sturdy" in the hydroton. She already has about 4 nodes and her main stem is a bit thick already but she wabbles from side to side when wind hits her or the bucket moves a bit; as though she hasn't "set" in place yet. Any ideas?

P.S.: I put some hydroton around her to support her better so now she doesn't move so my question now would be when would she be ready to bend or LST (shes 14 days today). Seems as though if I bend her now she will most likely fly out of the WF xD and I'm sure I don't want that. When would be a good time to start to LST her or to top her? I just want her main stem to be a bit ticker and sturdier you know.


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## nattybongo (Oct 15, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Thanks man. Best of luck with your own grow. I'm loving the waterfarm/scrog. Throw up a link to your journal when you start it up!


Will do mate, and thankyou! ^_____^


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## kriznarf (Oct 15, 2011)

AWnox said:


> Kriznarf! Update Update Update!  I know it's been 4 days but it's always good and "hope giving" to see your results (gives me confidence in my first WF grow I'm doing  ). I'm having a bit of trouble with the main stem though, she doesn't seem to find a place to stay "sturdy" in the hydroton. She already has about 4 nodes and her main stem is a bit thick already but she wabbles from side to side when wind hits her or the bucket moves a bit; as though she hasn't "set" in place yet. Any ideas?
> 
> P.S.: I put some hydroton around her to support her better so now she doesn't move so my question now would be when would she be ready to bend or LST (shes 14 days today). Seems as though if I bend her now she will most likely fly out of the WF xD and I'm sure I don't want that. When would be a good time to start to LST her or to top her? I just want her main stem to be a bit ticker and sturdier you know.


I would def take a look at Dayzt's current grow asap. He's deep in that early LST on his Vanilla Kush and Ace of Spades. Take a close look at his pics, note the extra tie that goes from the base of the main stem to the side of the waterfarm. That's a counter tie that will help keep the base of his plant in place while the top is bent over. This is pretty much required when you're dealing with a plant growing in loose hydroton. I've read that you want to begin your LST when the plant is showing between 3 and 5 nodes, depending on strain, stretch, etc. So you're probably ready to start that training now. Good luck! Start a journal and post lots of pics! Def one of the best ways to get feedback.


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## kriznarf (Oct 15, 2011)

Day 27 (12/12) Day 61 (Total)

EC: 1.8 (900 ppm)

Glad to finally have the chance to sit down and write a proper update. This plant is unreal!

I know that I should probably clip a couple of the smaller side branches that are above the screen, but at this point, I just kind of want to let her do her thing.

Took some of Hobgoblit's advice and gave her a quick flush. EC kept creeping up on me. She'd been drinking more than a gallon a day, EC ran as high as 2.7 (1350 ppm) during one of my morning checks. I wasn't able to get any distilled/de-ionized water. Had to make do with "natural spring water" (so probably RO water from who knows where.) Emptied the system, filled her up with a fresh two gallons of spring water and let her run for a few hours. Before I tossed that water, I tested it out at 300 ppm. After the flush, I filled her with some filtered water nuted to 1.5 (750 ppm). Each check since, EC had been dropping a bit while she continued to drink a ton. Been able to slowly bring her back to 1.8 (900 ppm) where she has been stable for a few days. 

Upward growth seems to have all but stopped. Though I think you'll be able to see that bud growth is in full swing. Thrichomes are starting to pop up all over. Can't wait to see what she does in the next few weeks!


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## nattybongo (Oct 16, 2011)

Aww man them plants are lookin pure quor!
Not telling you what to do but remember to trim that undergrowth so you don't get popcorn bud and it concertrates on the colas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFS05dmlCBE
Peace!


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Oct 16, 2011)

Looking good kiznarf.. you have been doing all the right things with the flush and keeping your eye on the EC.. you will no doubt have a nice harvest.. dont worry about having a 900 ppm nute strength .. the plant WILL always satisfy the root structure.. the more healthy your roots are the better yeild you will end up. she has already stored up plenty of nutrients for budding just dont try to push it.. you have taken my #1 tip and used it .. less is ALWAYS better.. good job Kiznarf


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Oct 16, 2011)

Awesome gardening kriznarf. Your leaves are so nice and green and the PE has become a freakin BEAST! it looks like its taken over the tent completely. 
YOur last update was really helpful for me. I think im starting to catch on to everything a little bit more now that my waterfarm unit is set up in my tent....its getting flushed out for a week as SCOTTYBALLS recommended.. So i started a new journal (the bottom grow in my sig ) .. Im just waiting .. cleaning the unit and waiting on my seed. DEEP BLUE by Breeders Boutique is what i have on the way..and i still have to build a scrog frame .... other than that i should be ready to go.. take it easy.. your kickin ass!!! have a great work week, The Doc A


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## kriznarf (Oct 17, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Looking good kiznarf.. you have been doing all the right things with the flush and keeping your eye on the EC.. you will no doubt have a nice harvest.. dont worry about having a 900 ppm nute strength .. the plant WILL always satisfy the root structure.. the more healthy your roots are the better yeild you will end up. she has already stored up plenty of nutrients for budding just dont try to push it.. you have taken my #1 tip and used it .. less is ALWAYS better.. good job Kiznarf


Yeah, really trying to keep on eye on that EC movement. Just letting her tell me what she needs. Always appreciate the input and encouragement. Thanks man!


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## kriznarf (Oct 17, 2011)

Dr.Amber Trichome said:


> Awesome gardening kriznarf. Your leaves are so nice and green and the PE has become a freakin BEAST! it looks like its taken over the tent completely.
> YOur last update was really helpful for me. I think im starting to catch on to everything a little bit more now that my waterfarm unit is set up in my tent....its getting flushed out for a week as SCOTTYBALLS recommended.. So i started a new journal (the bottom grow in my sig ) .. Im just waiting .. cleaning the unit and waiting on my seed. DEEP BLUE by Breeders Boutique is what i have on the way..and i still have to build a scrog frame .... other than that i should be ready to go.. take it easy.. your kickin ass!!! have a great work week, The Doc A


Just checked out the Deep Blue. Looks awesome! Can't wait to see how your grow goes. Also, left a little advice in your WF journal about that hydroton. Wash the fuck out of it! Spray it hard! (spray it again) Then let it go for a week in that waterfarm, ha.


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## dapio (Oct 17, 2011)

beautiful canopy man how do you do those top drip system buckets they would perfect my future SCROGs! why is there a blue thing hanging on the side as if its meant to drain water were is the reservoir? and if its a top drip system how do you change the res when you are doing a scrog? mind block ugh!

good stuff here though buddy keep it up!


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## mike91sr (Oct 17, 2011)

If I'm not mistaken, the tube is to show the water level, and you have a drain at the bottom so you dont have to move the bucket. Not sure how youd refill it though?


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## AWnox (Oct 18, 2011)

dapio said:


> beautiful canopy man how do you do those top drip system buckets they would perfect my future SCROGs! why is there a blue thing hanging on the side as if its meant to drain water were is the reservoir? and if its a top drip system how do you change the res when you are doing a scrog? mind block ugh!
> 
> good stuff here though buddy keep it up!





mike91sr said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the tube is to show the water level, and you have a drain at the bottom so you dont have to move the bucket. Not sure how youd refill it though?


You use the blue tube to empty the reservoir and you pour through the top into the hydroton. What you would do in a SCROG is just have enough space to get a jug in there between the screen and the WF or have some sort of funnel coming into the WF ; either way it's always from the top. That's why you should always place the WF on top of something so that it's always higher than your floor level so the drain tube can effectively "drain" down; into a saucepan or a kitty litter box like I do that holds approx 1 gallon, so fill it up twice and your golden (WF holds approx 2 gallons). Hope it helps.


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## kriznarf (Oct 18, 2011)

mike and AWnox have it right. The blue tube is both to measure the water level in your reservoir and to drain it (or to take a sample for your EC/ppm/PH meter.) You refill your reservoir from the top, pouring your fresh/nuted water back over the hydroton. It can be a little tough to understand before you have a waterfarm to play with, but once you get it things will click.


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## ironheadxl (Oct 20, 2011)

looks awesome a strong grow man.


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## cheddar1985 (Oct 20, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Day 27 (12/12) Day 61 (Total)
> 
> EC: 1.8 (900 ppm)
> 
> ...


 lookin lush fella cant wait to c wot these waterfarms can do thinkin of setting up a whole room of them after chrimbo and seeing your plant floorish as they have gives me that extra push to get it on!! + rep fella stay green


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## ironheadxl (Oct 21, 2011)

ther was a craigslist post for ten of the water farms for 150 this week, could not do it but thought of your grow and man the visions I had lol..


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## kriznarf (Oct 21, 2011)

Day 33 (12/12) Day 67 (Total)

EC: 2.0 (1000 ppm)

It's been a while, but I feel that the fresh pics will do the wait some justice!

EC is staying pretty stable, running between 1.9 and 2.2 when I test her at lights on. I just gave her a fresh two gallons at 2.0 (1000 ppm). Continue to love that truncheon, btw. 

Finished up the last of the trimming underneath. Love the transition from bare stalks to pure nectar jungle. I know that there are some small side branches that I should have nipped, but I have to admit to a certain amount of curiosity as to how they'll turn out. Seeing the way everything has developed has really shown me what sorts of training/pruning was for the best and what should have probably been left alone. Experience points!

I'm also including a bonus pic here, woah! Meet the next generation! I'll be starting a new journal for this grow next week, but in short, I'm hunting for an ill clone mother to be utilized in a larger grow in the future (I can legally grow fifteen plants. Awesome.) The strain is OG Raskal's White Fire. I'm super excited about this grow. It will be quite different from my current grow, but the goals are different (finding the best genetics vs. highest yield) and so is the gear... New semi-custom room (so it's a closet,) 600w, flood & drain, 6-8 plants. I'm still making final decisions about media and nutes. Planning for this grow and getting it setup has been eating my free time like no other, but even the homework is a blast.

Cheers all.

PS. Note the mutant! Three cotyledons and three little starter leafs.


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## Someguy15 (Oct 21, 2011)

You inspired me to do a waterfarm grow with a 250w in a 2x2x5'3" tent lol. Got PE in my main lineup so I went with Blue Mystic for this side project. Was wondering how to install the screen, that clamp idea looks like it works great. I would love to barrow that idea lol They're loookin' great, enjoy the PE she is great.


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## ironheadxl (Oct 24, 2011)

I cannot believe how tight your nodes are! I must have one sativia rich phenotype there is some real estate between my nodes. Are you going to keep any mother clones off the PE?


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## kriznarf (Oct 24, 2011)

ironheadxl said:


> I cannot believe how tight your nodes are! I must have one sativia rich phenotype there is some real estate between my nodes. Are you going to keep any mother clones off the PE?


You know, every time I've been in there pruning her, I think that I should be turning those clippings into clones. Sad fact is, I just don't have the space to keep a PE mother and still use the tent (and my future space) as bloom rooms. I do have some leftover PE beans though. Moving forward, the White Fire will be the first strain I keep a mother of, which is actually the whole point of that grow. Once I have a third space though, I'll likely try to keep a few mothers.

As far as my nodes go... Could be related to the height of my light or just the phenotype that I'm rocking. Either way, she's looking damn good. I'll try and throw an update up tonight or tomorrow.


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Oct 26, 2011)

AHHH! LOOKIng awesome kriznarf... this is going to be such a wicked harvest. What type of string did you use on your scrog screen..? would you recommend it and if so where did you purchase it. Was it hard to tie the knots? 
Congratulations on the babies and the new set up .. thats really exciting. Your PE is so pretty and healthy with beautiful deep green leaves.
hey did you see that sunrise today.. it was incredible!!! 
take care.
Amber
 so delicious!


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## ohmy (Oct 26, 2011)

I do not know if this has been answered before,but do you have to change the water using this set up or just ad nute's and pH ?.If someone would not mind telling me.I am looking to get this set up and need a better understanding of what kind of care they will need with out spending hours trying to find information when every time I start to read get side tracked by all the bud porn......OhMy


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## kriznarf (Oct 26, 2011)

Dr.Amber Trichome said:


> AHHH! LOOKIng awesome kriznarf... this is going to be such a wicked harvest. What type of string did you use on your scrog screen..? would you recommend it and if so where did you purchase it. Was it hard to tie the knots?
> Congratulations on the babies and the new set up .. thats really exciting. Your PE is so pretty and healthy with beautiful deep green leaves.
> hey did you see that sunrise today.. it was incredible!!!
> take care.
> ...


Thanks Amber! I picked up my string at Home Depot, I think. It was labelled as "soft garden twine," which seemed like a good fit for the job. Tying the knots wasn't actually all that difficult as I really only tied two knots. It's one long piece of twine that I wrapped tight around each screw that I placed in the frame. Keeping the tension on the twine while I did the threading though was a little tricky. I'll take a close up picture for you next time I'm in there!


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## kriznarf (Oct 26, 2011)

ohmy said:


> I do not know if this has been answered before,but do you have to change the water using this set up or just ad nute's and pH ?.If someone would not mind telling me.I am looking to get this set up and need a better understanding of what kind of care they will need with out spending hours trying to find information when every time I start to read get side tracked by all the bud porn......OhMy


It's not a very big reservoir, so you don't have to change the rez so often as practically refill it. This means that I'm taking a sample from the remaining water at lights on each day, noting the EC, then adding fresh, nuted water depending on what I think she needs. I don't have to mess with PH much since Flora Nova Bloom (the only product I'm using) has excellent PH buffers. I test PH from time to time and it's always between 5.5 and 6.3. You can def find more info on how to deal with the waterfarm reservoir in this thread and in the journals of others. mr2shim and Dayzt have excellent journals for learning about waterfarms. It's an awesome way to grow, but it does require a fair amount of attention.


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## kriznarf (Oct 26, 2011)

Day 38 (12/12) Day 72 (Total)

EC: 1.6 (800 ppm)

Quick update here, nerds. You may note in the new pics that there is a tiny bit of nute burn on the tips of those leaves. I've been dialing it back a bit and she seems to be doing great. I'm seeing all sorts of fresh pistils popping up on those tops. A week ago I thought she had about three weeks left, now I'm thinking she really has about three weeks left. So maybe four. Bah, she'll be ready when she's ready. No need to rush.

Also tossed in another pic from my next grow. Lagging on starting up that 2nd journal, but once I have the new space together I certainly will be.


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Oct 26, 2011)

man you really have it all worked out! its looks like a massive chuckle patch of love in there. Your plant looks like shes having a blast, smiling so happy! 
The babies also look so happy and perky. You must have a special secret like playing them really good music , singing to them or whispering sweet nothings into thier trichomes..hahaha..
It would be super sweet if you could get that close up pic of the scrog screen for me. I just returned from Lowes and got the twine. ITs BLUE to make my deep BLUE girl happy..lol
I also picked up 4 clamps.. that took some time. I made sure the clamps i bought would not slide on a round pole. But coming here to your pictures i see i must have my idea on the clamps all wrong. I am not sure if i have the corrrect ones. And i thought i just needed 4 to prop the screen up on.. but it looks like i should have 8 and use them to sandwich the screen.. 
You wouldnt happen to have a picture of the clamps handy would you buddy? lol.. i really hope im not being a pain, but i really admire your style and would like to be like as good a gardener as you one day. thanks a million
Amber


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## Fuzznutz (Oct 26, 2011)

Holy fawk Kriz... Those bitches just exploded!! The nute burn isn't even discernible. Love the snow fall on the leaves.


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## mr2shim (Oct 27, 2011)

wow I'm so jealous! Do not remember my sd looking that great @ 38 of 12/12


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## nattybongo (Oct 27, 2011)

Dr.Amber Trichome said:


> man you really have it all worked out! its looks like a massive chuckle patch of love in there. Your plant looks like shes having a blast, smiling so happy!
> The babies also look so happy and perky. You must have a special secret like playing them really good music , singing to them or whispering sweet nothings into thier trichomes..hahaha..
> It would be super sweet if you could get that close up pic of the scrog screen for me. I just returned from Lowes and got the twine. ITs BLUE to make my deep BLUE girl happy..lol
> I also picked up 4 clamps.. that took some time. I made sure the clamps i bought would not slide on a round pole. But coming here to your pictures i see i must have my idea on the clamps all wrong. I am not sure if i have the corrrect ones. And i thought i just needed 4 to prop the screen up on.. but it looks like i should have 8 and use them to sandwich the screen..
> ...


Don't worry, I want to find out how he has done the clamp idea too hehe. I'm going to steal it too if that's ok mate? ^___^


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## dapio (Oct 28, 2011)

Looks like some fire nice healthy clean crispy looking leaves scrogged to perfection makes for a happy harvest


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## Bullethead21 (Oct 28, 2011)

Awesome plant! We started out using water farms years ago, but then advanced to the Under Current system type, if you think the WF will increase growth and yield you should try a UC system....WOW!!


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## nattybongo (Oct 28, 2011)

Bullethead21 said:


> Awesome plant! We started out using water farms years ago, but then advanced to the Under Current system type, if you think the WF will increase growth and yield you should try a UC system....WOW!!


Whats a UC system? Link?


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## Someguy15 (Oct 28, 2011)

nattybongo said:


> Whats a UC system? Link?


 http://cch2o.com/

http://cch2o.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=4&chapter=0


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## The Dawg (Oct 28, 2011)

very nice setup and alot of information about the waterfarm grows=rep.I went to my local hydro store and bought 1.Can't wait for my first batch of seed's to arrive.Till Then I'm reading all threads about waterfarming and scrog's.Peace Out


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## snap1234 (Oct 28, 2011)

Bullethead21 said:


> Awesome plant! We started out using water farms years ago, but then advanced to the Under Current system type, if you think the WF will increase growth and yield you should try a UC system....WOW!!


What size UC are u using?


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Oct 28, 2011)

Happy Halloween!


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## Hobgoblit (Oct 29, 2011)

nattybongo said:


> Whats a UC system? Link?


This is a homemade version of a UC.


Looking good Krisnarf, remember man, less is more.


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## kriznarf (Nov 1, 2011)

Day 43 (12/12) Day 77 (Total)

EC: 1.9 (950 ppm)

Been about five days since I last checked in. Sorry for not getting back to some of you sooner (I'm looking at you, Amber!) Totally spaced on taking those pics of the clamps/frame, but I'll be sure to do that soon. It's so rare of me to forget things... cough. 

She continues to look great. Trichomes Everywhere! Pistils have just started to turn orange/brown, too. At this point, a day 60 chop (in 17 days) seems pretty likely. Can't wait to see how she fattens up in the coming weeks!

Some of that minor nute burn I mentioned earlier is a little more evident in this round of pics, but I've been keeping those nutes dialed way back, very slowly working my way up, and she seems to have stabilized at an EC of 1.9. Less is more.

Happy Halloween, nerds.


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## AWnox (Nov 1, 2011)

She's looking great kriznarf! One question though, if you didn't have a screen in place(not scrogging) would you still trim the bottom vegetation when in later flowering? I ask because I have a couple of branches or shoots that are being blocked from growing any more because they can't get enough light and they are WAAAYYY behind from the rest of the tops that already are in the canopy, should I or can I trim this shoot or just let it make popcorn buds when it flowers? (I'm at day 4 in flower today and they are stretching like you wouldn't believe, she's grown at least 2 inches in the last 36 hours; no screen for this grow)


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## kriznarf (Nov 1, 2011)

AWnox said:


> She's looking great kriznarf! One question though, if you didn't have a screen in place(not scrogging) would you still trim the bottom vegetation when in later flowering? I ask because I have a couple of branches or shoots that are being blocked from growing any more because they can't get enough light and they are WAAAYYY behind from the rest of the tops that already are in the canopy, should I or can I trim this shoot or just let it make popcorn buds when it flowers? (I'm at day 4 in flower today and they are stretching like you wouldn't believe, she's grown at least 2 inches in the last 36 hours; no screen for this grow)


Hey AW, hard to say without seeing exactly how small those side branches are, but in general it's a fine idea to prune those suckers if they're overly small or shaded. I'd rather the energy that would have been put into those popcorn nugs be focused on the associated cola, which will become a denser, top quality bud-site. That said, you could attempt a bit of defoliation (basically trim some of your fan leaves,) to try and expose those side branches to more light. At four days into 12/12 you have about ten more days of that early-flower stretch. You might be surprised how much some of those side branches can grow. You could try different strategies on different branches, thus giving you some basis for going with either strategy in the future. Start a journal, post some pics!


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## AWnox (Nov 1, 2011)

kriznarf said:


> Hey AW, hard to say without seeing exactly how small those side branches are, but in general it's a fine idea to prune those suckers if they're overly small or shaded. I'd rather the energy that would have been put into those popcorn nugs be focused on the associated cola, which will become a denser, top quality bud-site. That said, you could attempt a bit of defoliation (basically trim some of your fan leaves,) to try and expose those side branches to more light. At four days into 12/12 you have about ten more days of that early-flower stretch. You might be surprised how much some of those side branches can grow. You could try different strategies on different branches, thus giving you some basis for going with either strategy in the future. Start a journal, post some pics!


Thanks for the reply bro. Yeah I actually went ahead and trimmed off that shoot; it was very lanky and thin and about half the size of all the other shoots which reach the canopy just fine, this one didn't stand a chance. About that stretch, boy do they ever; in the past 4 days she's grown about 3 inches at least, it's good to hear that this stretch won't be for ever because I'm running out of lateral room. Most branches are growing big time and I'm trying to "train" them to grow more vertical then at an angle so they won't get out of the lights sweet spot but it's hard when it's such a bushy plant. Without scrogging I've been able to have a nice canopy with about 9 tops right now; maybe in my next grow I'll do the scrog and the whole journal venture, just trying to get one under my belt with the Waterfarm first and learn some things. Hopefully I'll get at least 2 ounces out of this grow. Should be able to with what I've seen so far with this plant. All opf the tops look very healthy and you can't tell which is the main top so they all look somewhat uniform, should be able to grow nice colas with them. Now, would they all have the same bud weight at harvest being in canopy or would the main top (of the main stalk) still be more heavy even if there's other tops sharing the same height?


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## boundlesnrg (Nov 1, 2011)

Hey guys just a little backround info this is my first grow! Ive been doing a lot of research online the last few weeks and have been thinking about attempting a SCOG set-up. I have some Femenized Sweet Seeds Jack47, G13's Blueberry Gum, and G13's Pineapple Express on the way. My grow room (closet) is 96" tall, 35" View attachment 1866577wide, and 22" to doorway, 25" to the door. I have a shelf close to the middle dividing it into two sections, the bottom being 42" tall and theView attachment 1866576 top 53". I have a 400w HPS/CMH lamp and 3 85w CFL's, 3 45w CFL's, a bunch of other 15w FL of assorted spectrums(planning on getting a 200w CFLView attachment 1866574 as well). I was thinking of doing a single plant SCOG on the top shelf under the 400w HPS and two - four plants on the bottom with the CFL's. View attachment 1866573Do you think this is a good idea? Should i just do one or two massive plants for the whole closet, or one bigger yielder on top with a SCOG on View attachment 1866572top and some smaller plants on the bottom. Here are some pics of my set-up(still in the works of being assembled. Still have some more mylar, lView attachment 1866571ights, and fans to hang) tell me what you guys think and what you would do. BTW I decided to SCOG and go with PE because of yours and scottybalView attachment 1866561ls blogs! Truely inspiring stuff!! I'm planning on making my own waterfarm for my next grow! Best of luck with your grow too they look amazing!View attachment 1866556


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Nov 2, 2011)

KRIZ
hahahah, HEY you lookin at ME! What chu lookin at man?!?! haha, thats too funny.. your funny.so i assume you saw my orginal post..hahahahah..hey , i was stoned give me a break!
I got the whole clamp thingy figured out kriznarf( what kind of a name is that anyway?) lol.. you the nerd NOT me brotha! lol
Its so cool to see how your tent is looking like a freakin Forest! The little burn on the leaf tips looks so harmless. The colas look super healty and quite tasty..nice gardening ...im going to watch this space fuckin ROCK the next couple weeks..as she fully matures...cheers ambz


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## snap1234 (Nov 2, 2011)

Hi Kriz, looking great! I was wondering if you have or have ever thought about experimenting with some UV/UVB lights during flowering for maximizing trichome development?


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## Someguy15 (Nov 2, 2011)

snap1234 said:


> Hi Kriz, looking great! I was wondering if you have or have ever thought about experimenting with some UV/UVB lights during flowering for maximizing trichome development?


 Little proof it really works, but the theory is sound...equatorial sativas are typically higher thc content, also happens to be where there's the most UV. High elevation same applies. Rather then adding a bit of spectrum you'd be better replicating the suns natural spectrum better. 2 products come to mind that actually exist right now, CMH and Sulfur plasma if u got 1500 to drop lol

http://www.plasma-i.com/

Ok so the reptile lights might be cheaper...but hey u get what u pay for. usually...lol


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## AWnox (Nov 2, 2011)

Someguy15 said:


> Little proof it really works, but the theory is sound...equatorial sativas are typically higher thc content, also happens to be where there's the most UV. High elevation same applies. Rather then adding a bit of spectrum you'd be better replicating the suns natural spectrum better. 2 products come to mind that actually exist right now, CMH and Sulfur plasma if u got 1500 to drop lol
> 
> http://www.plasma-i.com/
> 
> Ok so the reptile lights might be cheaper...but hey u get what u pay for. usually...lol


Dude that plasma is SICK! WTF?! Sun replicator..... must be expensive, I didn't even bother looking for a price. Looks like the shiz though.


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## SmeLLyTreeZ (Nov 2, 2011)

Looking great so far bro, I'm leaning towards trying out a waterfarm and its fun to see what there capable of  Keep up the good work!


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## Kudzuchron (Nov 9, 2011)

Update update update! We need to see how that girl is doing!


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## kriznarf (Nov 9, 2011)

Kudzuchron said:


> Update update update! We need to see how that girl is doing!


Ha, I know, mang. I'll def be posting an update this evening!

Edit: Dead camera battery is keeping this from happening tonight. What's the fun in posting a full update without pictures? I will say this though, took a couple clippings to peek at under the handheld microscope... those trichomes looked to already be about 10% amber, 85% cloudy, 5% clear. I'll be running until she's showing 25% amber, but she's a lot closer than I thought!


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## kriznarf (Nov 10, 2011)

Day 52 (12/12) Day 86 (Total)

EC: 1.6 (800 ppm)

Wow, what can I say? She's looking glorious! Dialed those nutes back a bit. Cleaned out the drip ring yesterday, too. I should probably be doing that more often. I'd almost forgot how much that thing should be spitting. Seems like she loved that as well as she nearly drained the entire reservoir in a day.

It's hard to believe, but she's looking pretty close to chop! Any guesses as to when she'll be ready? Under the scope, I'm def seeing some amber trichs, probably about 10%, but even this amount surprised me. That said, the samples I was peeping were from fan leaves that had been around a good while. Might have to check those calyxes to be sure...


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## jcdws602 (Nov 10, 2011)

Hard to tell from the pics...but they still look like they need 1-2 weeks still...lots of white hairs and calyxes don't look that swollen


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## Someguy15 (Nov 10, 2011)

beautiful man. waterfarms are awesome if you can be around 3x a day to tend them lol best growth EVER lol...ok maybe undercurrents r better, but it's damn close.

I harvest my pe on day 56 of 12/12 usually, but looks like ur phenotype is a bit more sativa then mine. I'd say u got about a week, as a rough guess.


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Nov 10, 2011)

JAW DROPPING!!!!!!
SO FROSTY!! SO SHINEY GREEN!!!!!!!!!! you really know your shit bro! 
those pictures are wicked! that girl is wicked! your such a great gardener KRiz..
if i were seeing amber trichs now and wanted to keep a strong sativa buzz i would seriously concider chopping her next week. 
I thinks shes so so very ready to be mowed down.. and man those leaves i can just tell they are going to make some very very potent hash for you..
youve come so far, im so happy for your success..
take it easy


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## SmeLLyTreeZ (Nov 11, 2011)

Very nice!


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## AWnox (Nov 11, 2011)

Awesome, truly inspiring.  I don't know how you can hold yourself back from clipping a little nug and trying her out....or have you already??? xD Man she looks frosty!


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## kriznarf (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words, everybody. Feeling really great about this grow! I'm guessing at least another four days, probably a week.


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## Dayzt (Nov 11, 2011)

Heya Kriz - things are looking super-great!! This is probably the hardest part of the grow cycle to be patient... I'm liking how green things are still looking for ya though - you can see the leaves starting to yellow-off a bit - very good sign! I'd probably say start flushing in about a week (maybe more) and then give it a good 10 days to flush out before taking the checkered flag... I'm sure it could come down any time in between that range though as well - looks like you're in for a thick, sticky harvest!!


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## Tmac4302 (Nov 13, 2011)

Hey Kriz, been following your grow since veg and it looks pretty sick man. I'm growing some PE myself. I just love these genetics. I think mine closer to your pheno than Scotty's. I'm still in veg though so my question is how was the stretch on the 12/12 flip? I've heard she usually doubles in size. Any idea as to how much she grew from veg?


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## POUND TOWN (Nov 13, 2011)

niiicceee looking plant DUDE
i got a single pineapple express fem seed waiting for my next grow
check the chiesel now tho
View attachment 1885165


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## nattybongo (Nov 13, 2011)

POUND TOWN said:


> niiicceee looking plant DUDE
> i got a single pineapple express fem seed waiting for my next grow
> check the chiesel now tho
> View attachment 1885165


Niiiiice. How old is that chiesel?


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Nov 18, 2011)

i wonder if the harvest is this weekend? i wonder what is going on in kriznarfs garden? its gotta be real soon i know it.


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## Someguy15 (Nov 18, 2011)

Hope it's going good Kriz.... pz


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## mr2shim (Nov 18, 2011)

Yes, how's it going been a long time since I've posted. Last pics things looked great.


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## kriznarf (Nov 18, 2011)

Day 60 (12/12) Day 92 (Total)

EC: 1.6 (800 ppm) 

Flush to start tomorrow

Hey everybody! This will probably be the final update before harvest, which I'm now pegging at this coming Tuesday. It's been pretty smooth sailing since the last update. Getting cold at night though. I'll def have to get some heating going in my space if I want to run it through the winter. The cold is bringing out some blue/purple hues, which is actually kind of cool. Seems like it's mostly the outer leaves/tops that are taking on those darker colors. These are going to be some beautiful nugs! 

Can't wait for harvest!


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## Dayzt (Nov 18, 2011)

Looks spectacular! Harvest time will be glorious... can't wait!


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## POUND TOWN (Nov 18, 2011)

nattybongo said:


> Niiiiice. How old is that chiesel?


well right now its a month into flower. check the sig.
i vegged for 2 months and seedling for 2 weeks. 
one more month flower.
but my dude.
shit is lookin good.
hope my express comes out similar
u flushin?


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## nattybongo (Nov 19, 2011)

Great stuff kriznaf. Can't wait to see harvest pics. How much do you think you'll get?

Peace!


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## SmeLLyTreeZ (Nov 19, 2011)

Looking frosty and almost ready to hang  Very nice!


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## ironheadxl (Nov 19, 2011)

awesomeness, pulled my PE bout three and a half weeks ago, 3.5 ounces dried all in all very happy for a first time hydro grow. looks delish over there Kriznaff, ya going to love it!


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## slipperydip (Nov 19, 2011)

Amazing job my friend =D
Scottyballs and Yourself are the reason, i'm forking out alot of money to get waterfarms shipped to australia lol- One Love brother.


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## kriznarf (Nov 23, 2011)

Day 65 (12/12) Day 97 (Total)

EC: 0.0 (3 days of flush)

Harvest Report!

Started at 4:30 PM (or about half an hour after lights on,) didn't finish until 2:00 AM. And that's with a buddy helping me for 7.5 of those 9.5 hours! So it took a total of 17 man-hours to take this girl down. You'll probably notice the box of popcorn that I just couldn't even get to. It was a lot of work, but a damn good time. 

This is also the first time where I truly feel that none of my pics are doing these buds any justice. There are some beautiful purple hues that the very top of most colas have taken on. They're also so frosty, so resinous, that they reflect my flash in troublesome ways. I seriously can't wait to give this PE a taste (perhaps surprising, but aside from the bomb scissor hash picture below, I haven't actually quick dried any samples.)

Hard to guess at yield at this point, but it looks like I've hit my target 8 ounces. Especially if you include the popcorn. I've also got a massive bag of sugar trim. I'll be making dry-ice hash with that in about a week.

Stay tuned for for a weigh-in and smoke report! And thanks again for all the kind words. I couldn't have done this well without the input from a bunch of you and that def means a lot to me.

Cheers all!


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## Psytranceorgy (Nov 23, 2011)

Congratulations! Really enjoyed the ride, now you can enjoy the harvest!!!


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## Kudzuchron (Nov 23, 2011)

Bomb documentation Kriz! I'm thinking more than 8 zones here mang, maybe 10 even!

Well done, sir!


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## Someguy15 (Nov 23, 2011)

amazing harvest man. it's a lot of work but you will soon smoke your first bowl of PE making it all worth it haha


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## mr2shim (Nov 23, 2011)

Awesome harvest kritz! Time for another journal and another grow! No time to waste haha.


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## dapio (Nov 24, 2011)

awesome job terpens look amazing in those shots!


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## Tmac4302 (Dec 1, 2011)

Alright, it's been a week man. Toss us a bone! How'd she turn out?


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## scotia1982 (Dec 1, 2011)

My first port in here mate but been subbed the whole way. Really excellent grow, I'm thinkin of trying a similar grow nxt time round but with the 35ltr aquafarm and a 600w


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## dwight smokum (Sep 27, 2013)

kriznarf said:


> mr2shim has it right. Depending on the size of your tent, you may only need one plant. My tent is only 3 x 3 and it's def going to fill up. If you were going 4 x 4, two plants might be called for. It's probably worth noting that light is the main limiting factor here. If you're growing under a 400, one plant should be great, 600, go for two, 1,000, step up to four. This is all assuming you're using a scrog to maximize on light exposure.


 so you think a 1000 will cover 6 ft each way with a 4 plant scrog setup?


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## sunny747 (Dec 6, 2016)

Was there a final weight to this?


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## horribleherk (Dec 6, 2016)

I am using a waterfarm as well nice to see scottyballs still around his thread has popped up here recently its like the national anthem for waterfarm growers here is my headband in a waterfarm under a 6-cob 340w. led a bit different but scottyballs inspired all the same


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