# Let's Debate



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

prove to me your imaginary friend (god) exists and i will prove he doesnt .............im a devout athiest to every god any human, has ever thought of .
your god is evil , homophobic , and a disgusting mess when compared to modern day thining


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

i bet no fucker will debate with me cause they know deep down there belief is total nonsense .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

come on christians fuckin debate if your so real it should be no problem .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

im waitin for one nutter to say something crazy


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

ha ha 85% of americains believe in a god yet non will debate wid me lol


----------



## jordan293 (Jul 22, 2011)

your right they are all to scared because they kno they're religion is a lie


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

you are correct my friend


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

God is great.
God Rules


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

so does my one legged goblin that lives in my garden shed ...prove he dosent exist


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

if no one can can cum up wid a legit argument for god in 24hrs its safe to say i win im more likely to be your god than jesus .


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

no its that theres already a HUGE thread doing exactly what youre trying to get going here...


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

I just told you God was great.
I'm in the other thread to.
Vagina is the center of the universe and proof God exists-pussy makes people and God made pussy.


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> I just told you God was great.
> I'm in the other thread to.
> Vagina is the center of the universe and proof God exists-pussy makes people and God made pussy.


pussy makes me feel like god....


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

yeah im better at debating than all those guys , im asking in my own thread .no one can can cum up wid anything to make me believe in there certain god


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

i guess you need faith to belive in god lol


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

i once walked wid god it was 12 55am and id took copiuos amounts of extasy , yet i walked wid him .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

you are allready owned .


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah im better at debating than all those guys , im asking in my own thread .no one can can cum up wid anything to make me believe in there certain god


 That was an awful rebuttal for someone who thinks he has some debate skills.
I will take this as your admission that God did in fact create pussy as you offered no other explination-I am glad I was able to lead you to the light-


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

lol, thats true. Since i dont believe i cant give you what you want either. Im like a car with no btter. Good to look at but thats about it!


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> That was an awful rebuttal for someone who thinks he has some debate skills.
> I will take this as your admission that God did in fact create pussy as you offered no other explination-I am glad I was able to lead you to the light-


uh ohhh. beardo is on guard! this is gonna get fun fast!


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

no ................your dodging the question , i asked you to prove to me that your god exists ? you still fail to do so i imagine something so real and so important to me ....like does my mum exist ) would be so easy to prove ?


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

People come out of people -That is proof of God- So is Everything people think feel see and do. LSD is proof of God, Marasa Is proof of God, weed is proof of God, dreams are proof-You can not prove otherwise. God is in you trying to create doubt in believers.


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

whats Marlsa? im in to watch but i had to sk....


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

bigbillyrocka said:


> whats Marlsa? im in to watch but i had to sk....


 *Marasa-*It is the best halucinagen you can seperate from yourself on it if you can find it eat a bunch-Dr Cook was the guy who made it. It is a west coast thing and it's big in Japan.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

.im sorry but that does not make sense in english .............people come out of people ? yes reproduction is evident in all species ? 
lsd is a man made drug to alter the chemical balance in your brain , i dont see where your going wid that ? weed is proof of god ? weed is just another plant that accurs naturally and has done well before the bible was wrote .
god is in me trying to create doubt in believers ? wtf how do i even reply to such a silly sentance ? i dont know ?if hes the almighty why dosent he just make me believe ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

exactly you are halucinating , the human mind is very exceptable to halucination .


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

Now I agree, to a point, religion is a means. To control. The mass public, but what about spirituality? Do u believe in that?


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> .im sorry but that does not make sense in english .............people come out of people ? yes reproduction is evident in all species ?
> lsd is a man made drug to alter the chemical balance in your brain , i dont see where your going wid that ? weed is proof of god ? weed is just another plant that accurs naturally and has done well before the bible was wrote .
> god is in me trying to create doubt in believers ? wtf how do i even reply to such a silly sentance ? i dont know ?if hes the almighty why dosent he just make me believe ?


i do know (from movies and stories you have to find him within you. He will not intervene to make you believe. You must do so on your own.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

i cant see why you would need to halucinate to see your god the very definition of halucination is to see something that isnt really there .


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> *Marasa-*It is the best halucinagen you can seperate from yourself on it if you can find it eat a bunch-Dr Cook was the guy who made it. It is a west coast thing and it's big in Japan.


that would be awesome. im a west coast guy myself. living in idaho now tho.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> .im sorry but that does not make sense in english .............people come out of people ? yes reproduction is evident in all species ?
> lsd is a man made drug to alter the chemical balance in your brain , i dont see where your going wid that ? weed is proof of god ? weed is just another plant that accurs naturally and has done well before the bible was wrote .
> god is in me trying to create doubt in believers ? wtf how do i even reply to such a silly sentance ? i dont know ?if hes the almighty why dosent he just make me believe ?


That is correct it does not make sense, It is so amazing only God can comprehend.
Anything man has made he did with the ability and resources provided by God.
God made plants and animals-the bible was written well after God made the earth and everything on it and in it.
God gave you your own free will and because we have all sinned he gave us knowledge and the ability to accept him and gain eternal life.


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

vapedup said:


> Now I agree, to a point, religion is a means. To control. The mass public, but what about spirituality? Do u believe in that?


my spirituality is karma. I guess closer to buddhism more than anything. Just be nice to everyone around you and all that you interact with etc.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

explain what you mean by spirituality ?i dont believe anything lives on after you die .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

karma is the idea of anything you do has a consequence and i can except that but not in a religious way or a spiritual way ....................and what the fuck is spirituality anyway ?


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

I think sativa needs. Some legit lsd, with dmt on the come down, trust me, u will. Really walk with. Someone then! Might not be "god", that's cuse it is. Spirit!


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> explain what you mean by spirituality ?i dont believe anything lives on after you die .


the memory of you lives on even though your do not.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

so why do so 3 quarters of the world believe in something totally different to you ?


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

bigbillyrocka said:


> that would be awesome. im a west coast guy myself. living in idaho now tho.


 http://forgetmidwest.blogspot.com/2010/09/brigt-white-underground.html
http://flaunt.com/features/112/starchamber-organization


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i cant see why you would need to halucinate to see your god the very definition of halucination is to see something that isnt really there .


te guy that decoded the human DNA genome did it while on LSD. He couldnt figure it out an then took some LSD and WHAMM-O! it hit him and the next day he was in the news. LSD is said to help you realize things that might not appear otherwise.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

yes , you are corect , but its only a aliver brain remembering , in two more generations there will be no memory of that person only whats wrote down here on earth


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so why do so 3 quarters of the world believe in something totally different to you ?


thats simple, everyone is different. No matter how you break it down, no matter what eeryone is different. Even in belief.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so why do so 3 quarters of the world believe in something totally different to you ?


 God appeared in different forms through different profits to convey his message to different people in different places at different times-God is behind all the religions.


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yes , you are corect , but its only a aliver brain remembering , in two more generations there will be no memory of that person only whats wrote down here on earth


very true, so start writing your memoirs!


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

I use to be. JUST like u sativa, then I had my own personal experience! Yes, I think the whole god. And jesus died. For me is a bunch of bs, but. Spirit on the other hand is REAL! Spirit as in like native american, buddah, ur body is made up of energy, matter is what is left over from energy, hence ur body, but u are merely a spirit experiencing body, not body experiencing spirit. And yes, YOU ARE "GOD" ur own god


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

even if what your saying is true wich i highly doubt it is , what you are saying is i need a drug only discoverd in the 1946s to see god lol you my friend are stupid


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

bigbillyrocka said:


> te guy that decoded the human DNA genome did it while on LSD. He couldnt figure it out an then took some LSD and WHAMM-O! it hit him and the next day he was in the news. LSD is said to help you realize things that might not appear otherwise.


 It hightens prececption


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

im gonna pack a bowl!


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

The TRUTH is, its all a big lie anyway, ur WHOLE life is a product of the system, they lie to u, poison u, and. Rob u blind everyday,


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

yeah shame only YOU had that experience ....try convincing someone else that you had that experience ...........its like my friend reckons he was abducted by aliens .


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> even if what your saying is true wich i highly doubt it is , what you are saying is i need a drug only discoverd in the 1946s to see god lol you my friend are stupid


 Great debate thanks....^^^- no one said you need anything- you are perfect just as God created you in his image- I have had enough of being told I am stupid -Stupid is as stupid does and i'm out for now-Peace and may God grant you wisdom


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> It hightens prececption


exactly. Know whats crazy? my wife and i did some laughing last few days ago (5 ish) and we made fun of one another and after being high i didnt remember it at all until we got high together again (last night). it was this awesome rush of memory that tripped me out. i could only imagine what lsd would do for me!


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

I think sativa has just never had an outer body experience, but spirit is not for. Everyone,


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

i never had one either really. Just hightened sense of alertness


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

i have taken lsd and all your other fancy drugs , it still does not show one credfible piece of evidence that god exists , you can say god only shows himself to you personally and god has spoke to you personally but that is no more credibal than the guys who say they have been abducted by aliens or the guys that say they have seen a ghost or the guys that say they seen big foot , why is it that you can not prove something so important as wether or not your god exists , and why is it you believe in that certain god .


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

And "God" is NOT behind religion, the. HEARTS of men is behind religion, where is the other thread talking. About this? And sativa, just cuz u can't. C it Doesn't means its not there


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

i believe in myself. period. 
thats what the bible really is about after all. finding a good person inside you.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

your talking nonsense , what you are saying is i need a out of body experience to believe in spirituality lol i say your brain is halucinating .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

you have never read the bible


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

I've taken plenty. Od lsd, and. Not all of it does it to u, really, never had a tru trip until like my 10th time, but yes, acid, special k, peyote, shrooms, will take u. There, not so much that u need them, but they show u that this "world " u live in, is just a great illusion


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

i have in the past. when i was a kid. long(er) ago. Only reason tho was to see what all the fuss was about.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

Ok heres the question ............the bible totaly contradicts the proven theory of evolution how can you still believe in the bible whilst discarding the science behind evolution ?


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

My friend, I've read the. Bible 4 times, y so closed minded? And spirit and God are not the same, u are god, and spirit is everything, but I don't expect u to get that, being all close minded!


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

The bible is FILLED with lies and distorted truth,


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

i never once said i believe in the bible. The bible (to me) is a big bed time story book passed down for many generations. All i am saying is that it wants you to be a bettr person. all of us. thats what its abut in the end. all religion.


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

Look up Dr. John Lilly, he did some amazing studies, really one of the main reasons acid. Is banned and black walled


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

bigbillyrocka said:


> i never once said i believe in the bible. The bible (to me) is a big bed time story book passed down for many generations. All i am saying is that it wants you to be a bettr person. all of us. thats what its abut in the end. all religion.


Ur most def right! Life is about being a good person! To ur brother and sister as well!


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

But wait a min ......your are tripping , you are altering what a sane human is thining .


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

Brother ,(sativa) ur thinking was altered LONG ago


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

Im not closed minded your the close minded one , you are denying evidence that is put before you and proven a million times over , evolution is as factual as we have day n night


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

Dude i have taken acid .....it will not make you see a fictional being , it will make you laugh and look at reality in a different way but it wont prove you have a spirit and it wont prove a god exists .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

WE DONT NEED RELIGION TO do GOOD THINGS .......HUMANS IN A CIVILISED WORLD KNOW ITS WRONG TO DESCRIMATE Against someone who is gay , we knowv this is wrong yet religion says homosexuality is a sin and is wrong .


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

humans minds trick them into thinking blasphemous things all the time. That doesnt mean they are right or wrong, it simply means were all different, yet so alike....


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

Its NOT the acid, and I do believe in evolution, and I do think religion is abunch of bs, so where are we disagreeing at?? I think u need to find out what spirit is. For ur self, just look into it, life is more than u think, and I'm not talkin heaven or hell, cuz ur heaven is right here on earth! Preception is everything!


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

i am not closed minded infact ive took purer lsd than you ever have


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> WE DONT NEED RELIGION TO do GOOD THINGS .......HUMANS IN A CIVILISED WORLD KNOW ITS WRONG TO DESCRIMATE Against someone who is gay , we knowv this is wrong yet religion says homosexuality is a sin and is wrong .


exactly, youre right. This is why i said Karma is my spirituality. Not spirituality as in i believe in god ec but that i believe in me and all thats around me.


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

But y, or how do we know it is. Wrong?????? There has to be a driving force that makes us think or feel the way we do, right??


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

i can agree that we all have a personality i cant agree we have something that lives on after we die


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

When I say spiritualty, I am NOT. Talking about "god" I am god, spirit is my driving force


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

Then explain ghosts. Why do we have TONS of documented "sightings" and "phenomenon" if we dont live on after death? When buried 6 feet deep we nourish the plants and grass above our decaying bodies bringing new life into the world.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

well its a collective thought ..........if we all thought murder was ok and acceptable then we would say that its ok .....but because the vast majority of people think murder is wrong and bad and sickening we believe it is wrong just the same as we think having a partner is ok and acceptable .


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

No brother, I think ur wrong! (Just my opinion) more than a collective thought! Off work, u guys have a great weekend!


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

show me one piece of credibal evidence that ghosts exist ? except someone saying that they saw a ghost ? its easy to say your saw bigfoot but untill credibal evidence is proven then its just a myth ,i have never seen a totally credibal picture or video of a ghost have you ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

yeah dude enjoy your weekend and try to lay off the 'spirits ' lol


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ive seen ghosts...i aint qaffraid of no ghost. lol

later vaped! good talk...


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

we have no documented sightings of ghosts , if we did people would be petrefied of going to bed at night


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

Learn how to spell, and proper sentence structure, then I'll debate you.

Until then, may the gods bring you peace.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

You are horrible at debate and you have not provided any evidence to back your position. Their are so many holes and untruths in your posts. You sling lies and insults instead of facts and opinions. keep practicing. If you are looking for God go out and live a little.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

im a english thouroughbread if you cant understand my english then maybe you should try a different language , .......ive looked back at everything i wrote and cant find a part where a english speaking person would become confused .
if you have something to say that is credibal then please debate ........
dont just get angry cause what you believe is as crumbly as your chocalate digestive biscuit.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

not sure if that was aimed at me BEARDO but ........................im holding up pretty well in dis debate, and i dont need to provide evidence, the person who claims they know something exists ,should be able to provide enough evidence to back that claim up , i know i can prove the bible exists .


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> WE DONT NEED RELIGION TO do GOOD THINGS .......HUMANS IN A CIVILISED WORLD KNOW ITS WRONG TO DESCRIMATE Against someone who is gay , we knowv this is wrong yet religion says homosexuality is a sin and is wrong .


 If God doesn't exist why are fags so worried that he said you go to hell if you do gay stuff?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

Why is it the people who claim to believe in something they cant prove exists get hostile ?


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> If God doesn't exist why are fags so worried that he said you go to hell if you do gay stuff?


cuz theyre scared they might REALLY like hell!


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

Because the bible says to stone those who go against God to death.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

maybe they were forced to believe a certain religion as a child like i was , the fear sometimes sticks with me today .i can only imagine if i was born in afghan i would be trying to get rid of allah not jesus .


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> maybe they were forced to believe a certain religion as a child like i was , the fear sometimes sticks with me today .i can only imagine if i was born in afghan i would be trying to get rid of allah not jesus .


 It's the same God


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

if i was a fag i would think well wait a minuite this god is supposed to have planned my life out, and can controll everything i do ,so why did he make me fancy men ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

lol oh right ..err explain then ? how did this mighty being get the whole worlds population all believing in a different god , is the god of the accient egyptiens the same as the quarans god ?


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> maybe they were forced to believe a certain religion as a child like i was , the fear sometimes sticks with me today .i can only imagine if i was born in afghan i would be trying to get rid of allah not jesus .


see thats where i got lucky, my moms dad and her grandpa were both preachers. she didnt want us to grow up like she did. So she let us choose what to think and believe. This is how im raising my children. So far so good.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> if i was a fag i would think well wait a minuite this god is supposed to have plannede my life out and can controll everything i do so why did hye mae me fancy men ?


Were back to this?
God does not controll you, you were created with free will-If you want to blow guys you are being tempted by sin and need to resist or burn in hell.


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> if i was a fag i would think well wait a minuite this god is supposed to have plannede my life out and can controll everything i do so why did hye mae me fancy men ?


im LOLing at "fancy men>" lol, are you "funny" my boy?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

bigbillyrocka said:


> see thats where i got lucky, my moms dad and her grandpa were both preachers. she didnt want us to grow up like she did. So she let us choose what to think and believe. This is how im raising my children. So far so good.


 im very glad about that my friend ,i believe religion should be left out of a childs mind untill they are 18 then they can decide for themselves


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

no that is what it says in your ancient book , if i was born in afghan i could have 6 wives and stone to death one of them if they looked at me funny .
dont quote me this nonsense unless you can prove hell is a real place .
it has the same credability as me saying , .............'if you dont worship ME twice daily and eat horse pooh you will be going to a firey place that will torture your soul for eternity ; you would laugh at me and say i dont believe you , well thats what im doing to you right now . so prove that ill go to your hell , or piss off , you have no credibility


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> Were back to this?
> God does not controll you, you were created with free will-If you want to blow guys you are being tempted by sin and need to resist or burn in hell.


you are created wid free will , yet if you sin you go to hell , if you obey you go to heaven ......how in the fuck is dat free will . please fuckin explain ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> Were back to this?
> God does not controll you, you were created with free will-If you want to blow guys you are being tempted by sin and need to resist or burn in hell.



free will would have no consequences ......free will would be blow a guy off and be free or dont blow a guy off and be free ......do you get that concept ?


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

You are in hell, you can argue all you want and try to explain and justify but your burning for your sin that is why your on RIU questioning the greatness of God. Repent and stop sinning and enjoy heaven or continue as you are and spend eternity in hell.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

so this is hell ? well fuck me seriousley im fuckin lovin it , i could only imagine what heaven must be like , but yeah i could live here in hell for a long time , i have weed woman n cars, im so glad its not like the bible says ,,all that fire n torture n shit lol


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

can i ask what it was i did in the previous life to send me here in to hell ?or was i allways here ? or is this just my spirit ?


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so this is hell ? well fuck me seriousley im fuckin lovin it , i could only imagine what heaven must be like , but yeah i could live here in hell for a long time , i have weed woman n cars, im so glad its not like the bible says ,,all that fire n torture n shit lol


the fire burns from within. passion is my fire.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

now im in hell can someone explain neanderthal man we found the skeletons of him ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr? i really cant make any sense of this ?


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 22, 2011)

if i were a scientist i could explain.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

i heard the que to get into heaven is fuckin imense if it took only 3 mins to talk to saint christopher before being alowed in ,someone dies on earth every 2 seconds ,,,,,,,,imagine the freakin que lol there would be donosaurs still infront of you in the line lol


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> can i ask what it was i did in the previous life to send me here in to hell ?or was i allways here ? or is this just my spirit ?


It's your spirit or whatever you want to say-Your refusal to accept God and his greatness and truth is what keeps you in hell



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> now im in hell can someone explain neanderthal man we found the skeletons of him ?


 He was another of Gods creations


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

arguing with people about what they believe will never end the way you want it too. God does not exist, nor does heaven or hell, some people cannot grasp the fact thatthis life is all we have and when its over we will cease to exist. religous people imo are the most hippocritical, vile, disgusting people on earth. so ya. i aviod them like they were the black plague, or a cop. lol.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> It's your spirit or whatever you want to say-Your refusal to accept God and his greatness and truth is what keeps you in hell
> 
> 
> He was another of Gods creations


oh right ......so anyway .what exactly is it your doing here ? or are you speaking to me on your lap top in heaven ? i heard they got a great signal in heaven ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> arguing with people about what they believe will never end the way you want it too. God does not exist, nor does heaven or hell, some people cannot grasp the fact thatthis life is all we have and when its over we will cease to exist. religous people imo are the most hippocritical, vile, disgusting people on earth. so ya. i aviod them like they were the black plague, or a cop. lol.


i agree , but i do love burning peoples hopes


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

yes they have 5g wireless in heaven. also there a starbucks on every corner and all you pay is a smile.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> oh right ......so anyway .what exactly is it your doing here ? or are you speaking to me on your lap top in heaven ? i heard they got a great signal in heaven ?


 I am in heaven and plan on enjoying my eternal life.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> It's your spirit or whatever you want to say-Your refusal to accept God and his greatness and truth is what keeps you in hell
> 
> 
> He was another of Gods creations



lol at this fool , hes telling me im in hell yet hes speaking to me over the internet so where the fuck is he lol ?


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

hes all of a sudden a spiritual man. but look at his fkn signature. lmao. yyaaa oookk


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> I am in heaven and plan on enjoying my eternal life.





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol at this fool , hes telling me im in hell yet hes speaking to me over the internet so where the fuck is he lol ?


Why am I called a fool for the joy God gives me? why must you persecute?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> I am in heaven and plan on enjoying my eternal life.


oh right so even though im in hell but my sister is in heaven we can still keep in touch and meet up if we like , just like we could actualy meet up ( i dont really want to meet up ) ?


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol at this fool , hes telling me im in hell yet hes speaking to me over the internet so where the fuck is he lol ?



You know it's bad when Beardo has more sense than you do...

lrn2metaphor


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> Why am I called a fool for the joy God gives me? why must you persecute?


your boring me now , anyone wid half a brain can see the obvious flaws in your logic


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i am not closed minded infact ive took purer lsd than you ever have





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> your boring me now , anyone wid half a brain can see the obvious flaws in your logic


 Flawed logic?^^^
Why argue about things that you can not back with any proof? Especially at the expense of someone else? If God is great and people are happy to have a set of rules and a ticket to heaven why try to plant doubt? If you have no proof to back up your claim God does not exist why not just accept him and live accordingly?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

karri0n said:


> You know it's bad when Beardo has more sense than you do...
> 
> lrn2metaphor


errr what ?


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

what religion are you beardo


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> Flawed logic?
> Why argue about things that you can not back with any proof? Especially at the expense of someone else?


what the fuck are you on about ? your telling me im in hell and your in heaven and your saying i need proof to disagree lol ............i have a 3 headed green midget that fits in my pocket and its invisible , if you cant prove that its not true , then it must be real .....................


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> errr what ?


My point exactly.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> what religion are you beardo


 None-
I guess if I had to choose one I would say Southern Baptist.


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

so your a man who believes in the bible correct?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> Why am I called a fool for the joy God gives me? why must you persecute?



theres no such thing ...................if you get joy out of pretending to yourself that your god exists then thats fine with me , but if your gona say your god gives you joy then yopu have to prove he exists .


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> what the fuck are you on about ? your telling me im in hell and your in heaven and your saying i need proof to disagree lol ............i have a 3 headed green midget that fits in my pocket and its invisible , if you cant prove that its not true , then it must be real .....................


 If you see a green midget then your midget exists- He might not exist to me but he is very real to you and from your prespective in your reality he is very much real.
Ask a schizophrenic and they can vividly explian what I am telling you.


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> but if your gona say your god gives you joy then yopu have to prove he exists .


No, he only needs to know. He doesn't need to prove it to anyone else.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> None-
> I guess if I had to choose one I would say Southern Baptist.


now you have to be kidding me ? your telling me im in hell and your a baptist lmfao


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> If you see a green midget then your midget exists- He might not exist to me but he is very real to you and from your prespective in your reality he is very much real.
> Ask a schizophrenic and they can vividly explian what I am telling you.


YESSIR. you ask a crazy person what they believe in and theyll tell you, and youll tell them no, it doesnt exist, yet they still wont believe you. they might even understand using a parable and not know that there talking about themselves. thats how crazy people are. O.O stares at beardo.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> so your a man who believes in the bible correct?


 I believe their is some factual basis for the stories but I really believe it is a set of guidlines on how to live life. The stories are fables or stories to demonstrate a point, teach a lesson or moral. I think it is not all to be taken literally and that men have altered it to suit their interests over the years.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> If you see a green midget then your midget exists- He might not exist to me but he is very real to you and from your prespective in your reality he is very much real.
> Ask a schizophrenic and they can vividly explian what I am telling you.


riggggggggggggghhttttttt so anything i can think up in my head is true to me lol , so if i think in my head that the colour of grass is purple then its ok for me to believe that .

i hope in your head you dont believe murder is ok .
cause everyone else thinks its wrong


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> I believe their is some factual basis for the stories but I really believe it is a set of guidlines on how to live life. The stories are fables or stories to demonstrate a point, teach a lesson or moral. I think it is not all to be taken literally and that men have altered it to suit their interests over the years.



so why do we need it if we have alterd it to suit what we think is right /?


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> riggggggggggggghhttttttt so anything i can think up in my head is true to me lol , so if i think in my head that the colour of grass is purple then its ok for me to believe that .
> 
> i hope in your head you dont believe murder is ok .
> cause everyone else thinks its wrong


It does not matter what you say-It matters what you know and believe is true.
You are against murder?-So are you anti abortion? anti war? do you pay taxes?


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so why do we need it if we have alterd it to suit what we think is right /?


 It is a set of guidelines-laws, a recipe for a good life
If you don't like the bible read the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tipitaka or the Torah what ever makes you happy. 
[/FONT]


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

yet you dont believe in them word for word? let me ask you. do you beleive in jesus christ? that he died for our sins? Do you believe it worked? do you know that many of the religions at that point in time, where based on prophetss who where all, bron on dec. 25, born of a virgin mother, died and arisen 3 days later, crucified, believed there death would vanquish others "sin". do you know these things? let me ask you to watch a movie keeping the same open mind im keeping ith you. im not being "aggressive" like my buddy over here. i want to talk. but seriously i need you to watch religulous and keep an open mind. im not saying your a fkin idiot for what u beleive. if you were like me then it wwas proably pushed on you by ur parents. its not your fault. it just takes some of us a while to come around and see the light. just because you dont believe in god or jesus or the bible doesnt mean you have to be a mean callous person with no morals. just saying.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> yet you dont believe in them word for word? let me ask you. do you beleive in jesus christ? that he died for our sins? Do you believe it worked? do you know that many of the religions at that point in time, where based on prophetss who where all, bron on dec. 25, born of a virgin mother, died and arisen 3 days later, crucified, believed there death would vanquish others "sin". do you know these things? let me ask you to watch a movie keeping the same open mind im keeping ith you. im not being "aggressive" like my buddy over here. i want to talk. but seriously i need you to watch religulous and keep an open mind. im not saying your a fkin idiot for what u beleive. if you were like me then it wwas proably pushed on you by ur parents. its not your fault. it just takes some of us a while to come around and see the light. just because you dont believe in god or jesus or the bible doesnt mean you have to be a mean callous person with no morals. just saying.


agreed thankyou , it seems to me only religious people get angry , cause they realise they can not back up any of their beliefs .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> It is a set of guidelines-laws, a recipe for a good life
> If you don't like the bible read the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tipitaka or the Torah what ever makes you happy.
> [/FONT]


well i dont need any religion to tell me rape or murder is wrong , its just something humans see as bad and unaceptable.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> yet you dont believe in them word for word? let me ask you. do you beleive in jesus christ? that he died for our sins? Do you believe it worked? do you know that many of the religions at that point in time, where based on prophetss who where all, bron on dec. 25, born of a virgin mother, died and arisen 3 days later, crucified, believed there death would vanquish others "sin". do you know these things? let me ask you to watch a movie keeping the same open mind im keeping ith you. im not being "aggressive" like my buddy over here. i want to talk. but seriously i need you to watch religulous and keep an open mind. im not saying your a fkin idiot for what u beleive. if you were like me then it wwas proably pushed on you by ur parents. its not your fault. it just takes some of us a while to come around and see the light. just because you dont believe in god or jesus or the bible doesnt mean you have to be a mean callous person with no morals. just saying.


I believe Jesus was a cool guy and like all of us made in the image of God, and because of his word and deeds we learned and we have those stories to learn from today-Their were other religions predating and co existing with christianity and we adopted their dates and gods and traditions to make it easier for people to accept christianity, Their have been lost of profits.


----------



## boneheadbob (Jul 22, 2011)

You may as well be deaf, dumb and blind. The scales covering your eyes prevent you from the seeing the truth. So it is of no suprise to me that you believe in yourself and that said belief trumps my belief in the God who created man from dust of the earth.

PS your debate skills suck


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> I believe Jesus was a cool guy and like all of us made in the image of God, and because of his word and deeds we learned and we have those stories to learn from today-Their were other religions predating and co existing with christianity and we adopted their dates and gods and traditions to make it easier for people to accept christianity, Their have been lost of profits.


so what about the religions and beliefs 1000s of years before christianity like the god zeus ?or thor ?


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> well i dont need any religion to tell me rape or murder is wrong , its just something humans see as bad and unaceptable.


 Really?
Why if 'humans' just see it as bad is their so much of it in the world? Wouldn't it cease to exist if what you were saying were true?


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so what about the religions and beliefs 1000s of years before christianity like the god zeus ?or thor ?


 What about them? God has been around a long time and in many forms


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> You may as well be deaf, dumb and blind. The scales covering your eyes prevent you from the seeing the truth. So it is of no suprise to me that you believe in yourself and that said belief trumps my belief in the God who created man from dust of the earth.
> 
> PS your debate skills suck


lol and your debating me with...................... man being created from dust on earth lmao , what dust was it from ?


----------



## boneheadbob (Jul 22, 2011)

I was going on the past 16 pages of Beardo tearing you up.
And I did not start a thread with "I am the great debator".


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> What about them? God has been around a long time and in many forms



oh right so your using the old 'god is the same one in every religion ' lol zeus and the god of christianity are COMPLETELY different if you can explain how they are the same god then id be very freakin interested lol


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> I was going on the past 16 pages of Beardo tearing you up.



show me one credibal post you idiot lol


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> You may as well be deaf, dumb and blind. The scales covering your eyes prevent you from the seeing the truth. So it is of no suprise to me that you believe in yourself and that said belief trumps my belief in the God who created man from dust of the earth.
> 
> PS your debate skills suck


so why dont we see in the fossil and dna record 'man just appearing out of dust ' ...............what we actualy see is man evolving from ape like creatures etc etc


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

going back .................if im in hell ............what happens if i dont live bad or i dont live good and i just get to 85 and die of old age like my grandad ?


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

How was life created? No one can do it. it does not just happen. Yes they can start with a cell but in the absence of anything they can not create something- only God can-
God created the universe and everything that's out their and he created earth and everything on it. Its a case of which came first, the chicken or the egg-either way God had to create one or the other first but in the end it doesn't really matter which he created first, the mere fact he created them is amazing.


----------



## wanabe (Jul 22, 2011)

i dont belive in god but i can tell your american by how ignorant you are


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> How was life created? No one can do it. it does not just happen. Yes they can start with a cell but in the absence of anything they can not create something- only God can-
> God created the universe and everything that's out their and he created earth and everything on it. Its a case of which came first, the chicken or the egg-either way God had to create one or the other first but in the end it doesn't really matter which he created first, the mere fact he created them is amazing.



thats total nonsense you are actualy contradicting yourself.....................who or what made your god then, ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

im english btw ...............and what was god doing for the eternity before he decided to make us , cos what you are saying is your god must of just allways of been there , so what was he doing for the eternity before he decided to make our universe and where was he ? coz our universe didnt exist before he made it .


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> thats total nonsense you are actualy contradicting yourself.....................who or what made your god then, ?


 God is energy-he has always existed he never goes away only chances form, dissipates and concentrates as he sees fit-You are God like you have this energy inside of you.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> im english btw ...............and what was god doing for the eternity before he decided to make us , cos what you are saying is your god must of just allways of been there , so what was he doing for the eternity before he decided to make our universe and where was he ? coz our universe didnt exist before he made it .


 Fucking around in space maybe with aliens or maybe on something we don't know about and comprehend


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

so nothing created him he was ALLWAYS there,floating around as this ENERGY thing , in SPACE with ALIENS and one day 6000 years ago he suddenly decided to create humans , and put them on this planet he just created with a sun that will eventually die out and destroy the planet , and then give them a choice , but call it free will , to worship and obey him and go to his heaven he created full of nice things or dont believe in him and go to a hell with a devil in charge ................. lol ...........its endless fun with religious people


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

funny thing is if you had told me these wonders 6000 years ago i would of actually believed you , you mad old bastard lol


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

The problem here and has always been the problem, is that most people today our victims to the "system". They tell us all this bs about Jesus dying for our sins and to go. To heaven u have to go threw him, that's not true. They stole Jesus story and made it there own. Truth is, u are ur own "God" but they don't want u to know that because it is impowering. But I DO believe in Spirit! Ur probably asking what the hell is Spirit?? Spirit is the driving forc e of life and everything else! And yes, I'm a firm believer in science and evolution! Because! There. Are so many things that sicence won't tell the public, because they know most people won't be able to handle the "turth". Do ur self a favor and look into Sacred Geometry. There are so many things about ur past history and culture, and other civilization before us, that is. Hiden and kept from us on. Purpose, to surpress us. And yes any religion that tells u to worship another god is wrong and led by the hearts of men. So look more to the Spiritual ways of. Life like Buddhism that teach a way of life! So don't spend so much time ridiculing someone. Elses belief system, go out and find ur OWN! Because its just that, ur own!


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

your argueing with a wall. both of you are on opposite sides of this wall. pushing it so perhaps it may tumble down upon the other and cover them in your beliefs. but this wall will not move. its the wall of mans ego and it will not falter. .. i say find something beter to do gentlemen because you both know the other one is wrong, and you both know that niether will surcome. so ya, stop it already.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

sorry but i believe religion is a evil we must get rid of .


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

than you yourself are evil for wanting to vanguish something you have no authority to. saying things like this will put the seed of hate into people hearts. either way god or no god, we should not be eraticating shit we dont believe in. that just makes you a hiipocrite seeing as thats exactly what religions have been doing. so ya. lost cause hombre


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> your argueing with a wall. both of you are on opposite sides of this wall. pushing it so perhaps it may tumble down upon the other and cover them in your beliefs. but this wall will not move. its the wall of mans ego and it will not falter. .. i say find something beter to do gentlemen because you both know the other one is wrong, and you both know that niether will surcome. so ya, stop it already.


no your wrong .one side has evidence , reason and logic .......the other side requires belief , superstition and ancient mythology .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> than you yourself are evil for wanting to vanguish something you have no authority to. saying things like this will put the seed of hate into people hearts. either way god or no god, we should not be eraticating shit we dont believe in. that just makes you a hiipocrite seeing as thats exactly what religions have been doing. so ya. lost cause hombre


i cant stand back and watch you put false hopes into childrens hearts , why cant you wait untill people are adults before pushing your religion on them ?


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

im not wrong son. just because i dont align with you does not make me wrong. 

your making yourself look childish. im not saying the bible aint a bunch of bullshit used to comntrol people. what i am saying is your arguing with hardheaded fucking people that dont really give a fuck about your logic. if they trully believed in logic, im sure theyd be on our side of the wall and not theres.


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

seeing now your being fucking stupid cause i dont fucking believe in god kid. READ THE FUCKING THREAD


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

yeah sorry didnt mean to quote you , but anyway some things do need getting rid of , hitler had a point of veiw but we as a human decided collectivly that his idea was bad and evil so we got rid of it . im not saying we should get rid of everything a certain person dosent like , but as a collective us humans should see religion is hatefull , evil and totally wrong and we should forget about it .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

anyway im goin bed now .....................thans for the debate .


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

horrible debator. perhaps hes a masterbaitor. i no i am!


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah im better at debating than all those guys , im asking in my own thread .no one can can cum up wid anything to make me believe in there certain god


It seems you are an atheist that can't really explain why. When you say religion has no logic or reason and is backed up by myths it is simply an accusation without substance. As you see, when you really can't defend your accusations the religious will tear you apart. God can not be disproven, and no reasonable person would attempt to. As an atheist, you are simply responding to the question of 'is there reason to believe in a deity'. When you go on to claim that you can prove god doesn't exist, you are outside the realm of atheism and enter into anti-theism, which is just as unreasonable as theism. This is not helped by your abusive language and self-righteous tone. I think most of your conclusions are right, but your methods and articulation leave your opinions with little merit and do nothing to create doubt.


If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people - Dr. House


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

agreed. totally, agree.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 22, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> It seems you are an atheist that can't really explain why. When you say religion has no logic or reason and is backed up by myths it is simply an accusation without substance. As you see, when you really can't defend your accusations the religious will tear you apart. God can not be disproven, and no reasonable person would attempt to. As an atheist, you are simply responding to the question of 'is there reason to believe in a deity'. When you go on to claim that you can prove god doesn't exist, you are outside the realm of atheism and enter into anti-theism, which is just as unreasonable as theism. This is not helped by your abusive language and self-righteous tone. I think most of your conclusions are right, but your methods and articulation leave your opinions with little merit and do nothing to create doubt.


what nonsense ........................god cant be disproven , yet neither can the three headed monster i keep in my basement ...so my three headed monster has the exact same credibility as the god they are arguing for ........what more can i say ? ,,,,,,,,,,,,everything else in life can be proven yet when it comes to god you have to have faith lol


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm still waiting on a reply? U. Want to debate


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

i think his post was meant to say your comming about this the wrong way. your tone and the way you articulate yourself is coming off somewhat abrasive and its hard to find credibilty in someone who seems to be ranting angrily.


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> what nonsense ........................god cant be disproven , yet neither can the three headed monster i keep in my basement ...so my three headed monster has the exact same credibility as the god they are arguing for ........what more can i say ? ,,,,,,,,,,,,everything else in life can be proven yet when it comes to god you have to have faith lol


The burden of proof falls to the person making the claim. Saying that there is no proof of god is not the same as saying god does not exist. The point you are borrowing from Sagan is that we do not automatically believe claims without evidence. Explain how this translates into, there is no god? A reasonable skeptic, which most atheists are, simply says there is no evidence based reason to believe in god therefore I do not believe, but show me sufficient evidence and I will. Just as with all scientific conclusions, it comes with error bars and the understanding that new evidence can change things. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is it likely that we will ever see evidence of god? Probably not, but no reasonable person can say it's impossible.

As I said, I think a lot of your conclusions are correct, but there are many holes in your presentation and the religious will eat them up.


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> The burden of proof falls to the person making the claim. Saying that there is no proof of god is not the same as saying god does not exist. The point you are borrowing from Sagan is that we do not automatically believe claims without evidence. Explain how this translates into, there is no god? A reasonable skeptic, which most atheists are, simply says there is no evidence based reason to believe in god therefore I do not believe, but show me sufficient evidence and I will. Just as with all scientific conclusions, it comes with error bars and the understanding that new evidence can change things. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is it likely that we will ever see evidence of god, probably not, but no reasonable persona can say it's impossible.


I really like the way u put ur Opinion! I can most def respect that!!


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

lol. its actually well articulated. something of a gift i say.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Wow the OP is one angry Atheist.


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

hey yo denton in the house?! lol you know kristen flow by anychance? lmao. i used to live in funkytown fort worth hombre.... and yes. one angry mofo.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

If your wanting to debate i would get with some of the other atheist and learn how...they make me think about my faith and challenge my ideals, your pretty much just calling out people whom believe in God or any deity for that matter in a very hostile and uncivilized way.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> hey yo denton in the house?! lol you know kristen flow by anychance? lmao. i used to live in funkytown fort worth hombre.... and yes. one angry mofo.


lol, no i dont. Im really just up here so my girl can finish her school and such. But Denton is a pretty cool little town.


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

i got lots of buddies up there going to that school. i bet your chick knows my friend. lol. theres lot of good homegrown up there, tons of raves. great mollies. good place in general. glad ur here.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Kinda cool to have Denton RIU members on here.


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

im not in denton. im in Corpus christi. but born and raised fort worthian. been in the dfw til i moved down here a few yrs bak. but i still got mad friends up there.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> im not in denton. im in Corpus christi. but born and raised fort worthian. been in the dfw til i moved down here a few yrs bak. but i still got mad friends up there.


OIC, well still pretty cool.


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

agreed


----------



## vapedup (Jul 22, 2011)

To personal, had to delete


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Nice. So anyway back on topic....argh im an angry atheist....


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 22, 2011)

.99999&#8734; is equal to 1


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 22, 2011)

lmao; yes argh angry atheist and your beliefs are garbage. just stop believing what u believe and believe me, the angry online atheist. argh.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Im Christian but go by the moto "You worship your sky monster and i will worship mine".


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> oh right so your using the old 'god is the same one in every religion ' lol zeus and the god of christianity are COMPLETELY different if you can explain how they are the same god then id be very freakin interested lol


Different gods are different archetypes of the same source. People canot relate to divinity s it is formless. Man develops different archetypes for understanding divinity because it's easier for humans to relate to beings that are similar to Man rather than a formless "energy" source



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> going back .................if im in hell ............what happens if i dont live bad or i dont live good and i just get to 85 and die of old age like my grandad ?


If your grandad was a Christian, then he's in heaven. If he was pagan, he's with his gods. If he was an atheist, then I'm not really sure what his afterlife is like, or if he even has one. I certainly hope it's something akin to eternal peace, rather than aimlessly floating in the void.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> lmao; yes argh angry atheist and your beliefs are garbage. just stop believing what u believe and believe me, the angry online atheist. argh.


 The part where he called me a stupid asshole after he claimed to be the great debater was almost enough to persuade me but I stand by my conviction that God is good.
Thank you Hiesenberg for bringing something to the table and explaining your position and clarifying the position of the Atheists-I will consider you their representitave or ambassador.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

He would have had a better outcome if he had asked why one believes in God or whomever's version of, then explained why he does not believe in it himself. Maybe even ask how one came to the conclusion of why there is a God. 

I do not mind people disagreeing with me but I do not want to put out my beliefs to be chastised or taunted for my view or beliefs, which is obviously (IMO) what he was trying to set up. He seems angry and wants to be angry at someone, I only gave one guy on these forums an invitation to be angry at me and its not the OP .

Honestly my beliefs boil down to faith in my Lord, there is more to it than that but in its primal capacity it is faith.


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jul 22, 2011)

How do u explain youre own being Sativa?The fact that we are self aware.What about human kinds intellectual capacity compared to any other species,u dont see any other animals in the world building steel rails and cement sidewalks. How is it we are so different?If u answer with evolution-then why are we evolved in a way that dosent adapt like wildlife dose to their environment -exception being physically evolved in either example-,yet we tend destroy it with our "smart thinking."Why dose humankind have the problems of dischord and lack of harmony within its surroundings that it dose?


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 22, 2011)

What is faith but a word we use when we can't explain an aspect of god or the beliefs? If we don't understand god, then ours is not to know the mind of god. If we can't understand why god allows kittens to die, we are to simply trust in his plan. When we hit a logical wall while contemplating god, we are given faith as an out. All these things are teaching us to accept ignorance as a position. Faith is believing in something when there is no good reason to. Faith is being satisfied with not knowing. When you cite faith as your reason for believing in god, you are really citing your lack of reasons and saying it's okay anyway. That really doesn't help anyone but yourself. 

In short, faith stops us from asking questions without providing any answers; an appeal to ignorance. Does this seem like a valid way of reaching the truth?


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> What is faith but a word we use when we can't explain an aspect of god or the beliefs? If we don't understand god, then ours is not to know the mind of god. If we can't understand why god allows kittens to die, we are to simply trust in his plan. When we hit a logical wall while contemplating god, we are given faith as an out. All these things are teaching us to accept ignorance as a position. Faith is believing in something when there is no good reason to. Things with good reasons do not require faith. When you cite faith as your reason for believing in god, you are really citing your lack of reasons and saying it's okay anyway. That really doesn't help anyone but yourself.
> 
> In short, faith stops us from asking questions without providing any answers. It is nothing more than an appeal to ignorance. Does this seem like a valid way of reaching the truth?


While sometimes faith is used in this way, that's not the actual purpose of faith. It's not a magical concept that means to believe regardless of the evidence. True faith is trusting that your god or gods will make certain that everything will happen as it should. Faith is better described as trust in your deity rather than belief in something in spite of contrary evidence.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Well put Heisenberg, I had the very same point of view of faith. I really got fed up at one point and just said if you there God show me. I have actually come to my conclusion rather recently. (On a side note i would like to give you credit and a couple of other RIU members for testing my faith, you made me ask myself a lot of good questions about what i believe) I wont go on in detail unless you would like me too on another thread, but in a nut shell there are far too many recent events happening that concur and run parallel with prophecy with scripture. Im not trying to sound like a nut case but these events are occurring are real world facts and it would be a HUGE coincidence (IMO) that so much of it has been predicted and is occuring in our generation. 

This i feel is the way the Lord has "spoken" to me.

However in the end i guess we will know one way or the other, but hey if im wrong then hey im wrong but i dont believe that i am.

But yeah did i mention your my second favorite atheist


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

karri0n said:


> While sometimes faith is used in this way, that's not the actual purpose of faith. It's not a magical concept that means to believe egrdless of the evience. True faith is trusting that your god or gods will make certain that everything will happen as it should. Faith is better described as trust in your deity rather than belief in something in spite of contrary evidence.


Karrion you just described how i feel about faith.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Well im gona go finish up here at work, ill hop on later when i get home to continue discussion if you would like or if you want me to start a new thread i can, dont want to take this one from the angry one. 

Stay sexy RIU.


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 22, 2011)

karri0n said:


> While sometimes faith is used in this way, that's not the actual purpose of faith. It's not a magical concept that means to believe egrdless of the evience. True faith is trusting that your god or gods will make certain that everything will happen as it should. Faith is better described as trust in your deity rather than belief in something in spite of contrary evidence.


If we trust in a deity because of good reasons, we say "I trust for these reasons". If we can't explain our reasons or simply have none, we say "I trust because I have faith". Obviously trust is involved, but faith is the reason behind that trust. Faith does not need contrary evidence to exist, it simply needs the lack of answers.



> True faith is trusting that your god or gods will make certain that everything will happen as it should


 And what about when things don't happen as they should? When it seems by our understanding that things are not as they should be, we simply distrust our understanding and cite faith as a reason for doing so.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

txhazard said:


> Well im gona go finish up here at work, ill hop on later when i get home to continue discussion if you would like or if you want me to start a new thread i can, dont want to take this one from the angry one.
> 
> Stay sexy RIU.


 He's asleep- apparently the the anti christ has a bed time. parents said no being creepy on the computer after 9


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

txhazard said:


> Well put Heisenberg, I had the very same point of view of faith. I really got fed up at one point and just said if you there God show me. I have actually come to my conclusion rather recently. (On a side note i would like to give you credit and a couple of other RIU members for testing my faith, you made me ask myself a lot of good questions about what i believe) I wont go on in detail unless you would like me too on another thread, but in a nut shell there are far too many recent events happening that concur and run parallel with prophecy with scripture. Im not trying to sound like a nut case but these events are occurring are real world facts and it would be a HUGE coincidence (IMO) that so much of it has been predicted and is occuring in our generation.
> 
> This i feel is the way the Lord has "spoken" to me.
> 
> ...


If you're into end times prophecies and stuff, you might be interested in this one, put forth by the Hopi indian elder named White Feather:


"My people await Pahana, the lost White Brother, [from the stars] as do all our brothers in the land. He will not be like the white men we know now, who are cruel and greedy. we were told of their coming long ago. But still we await Pahana.
"He will bring with him the symbols, and the missing piece of that sacred tablet now kept by the elders, given to him when he left, that shall identify him as our True White Brother. 
"The Fourth World shall end soon, and the Fifth World will begin. This the elders everywhere know. The Signs over many years have been fulfilled, and so few are left. 


_"This is the First Sign:_ We are told of the coming of the white-skinned men, like Pahana, but not living like Pahana men who took the land that was not theirs. And men who struck their enemies with thunder.
_"This is the Second Sign:_ Our lands will see the coming of spinning wheels filled with voices. In his youth, my father saw this prophecy come true with his eyes -- the white men bringing their families in wagons across the prairies." 
_"This is the Third Sign:_ A strange beast like a buffalo but with great long horns, will overrun the land in large numbers. These White Feather saw with his eyes -- the coming of the white men's cattle." 
_"This is the Fourth Sign:_ The land will be crossed by snakes of iron." 
_"This is the Fifth Sign:_ The land shall be criss-crossed by a giant spider's web." 
_"This is the Sixth sign:_ The land shall be criss-crossed with rivers of stone that make pictures in the sun." 
_"This is the Seventh Sign:_ You will hear of the sea turning black, and many living things dying because of it." 
_"This is the Eight Sign:_ You will see many youth, who wear their hair long like my people, come and join the tribal nations, to learn their ways and wisdom.
_"And this is the Ninth and Last Sign:_ You will hear of a dwelling-place in the heavens, above the earth, that shall fall with a great crash. It will appear as a blue star. Very soon after this, the ceremonies of my people will cease.
 "These are the Signs that great destruction is coming. The world shall rock to and fro. The white man will battle against other people in other lands -- with those who possessed the first light of wisdom. There will be many columns of smoke and fire such as White Feather has seen the white man make in the deserts not far from here. Only those which come will cause disease and a great dying. 
"Many of my people, understanding the prophecies, shall be safe. Those who stay and live in the places of my people also shall be safe. Then there will be much to rebuild. And soon -- very soon afterward -- Pahana will return. He shall bring with him the dawn of the Fifth World. He shall plant the seeds of his wisdom in their hearts. Even now the seeds are being planted. These shall smooth the way to the Emergence into the Fifth World.


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

I have heard that and it is true, more proof- Thanks for posting it. what year was that from? what happened to him?


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 22, 2011)

txhazard said:


> Well put Heisenberg, I had the very same point of view of faith. I really got fed up at one point and just said if you there God show me. I have actually come to my conclusion rather recently. (On a side note i would like to give you credit and a couple of other RIU members for testing my faith, you made me ask myself a lot of good questions about what i believe) I wont go on in detail unless you would like me too on another thread, but in a nut shell there are far too many recent events happening that concur and run parallel with prophecy with scripture. Im not trying to sound like a nut case but these events are occurring are real world facts and it would be a HUGE coincidence (IMO) that so much of it has been predicted and is occuring in our generation.
> 
> This i feel is the way the Lord has "spoken" to me.
> 
> ...


Ha, well if you follow my opinion then you are probably aware of what I am going to say. Without getting into self-fulfilling interpretation and confirmation bias, and while quickly pointing out that you can examine just about any point in history and find prophetic signs, I would cite Occam's razor and ask why, when a 'huge coincidence' is within the possibility of natural occurrence, do you favor a supernatural explanation? It seems you are saying, I can't personally understand how these things could coincide, so it must be divine.

My favorite Athiest is Jesus, a Mexican friend I used to work with.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> If we trust in a deity because of good reasons, we say "I trust for these reasons". If we can't explain our reasons or simply have none, we say "I trust because I have faith". Obviously trust is involved, but faith is the reason behind that trust. Faith does not need contrary evidence to exist, it simply needs the lack of answers.
> 
> And what about when things don't happen as they should? When it seems by our understanding that things are not as they should be, we simply distrust our understanding and cite faith as a reason for doing so.


I understand your angle Heisenberg.

faith&#8194; &#8194;
[feyth] Show IPA
noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. I trust in the Lord because of reason, the reason i believe is based in fact. Events that I previously mentioned which I consider fact.

2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. This is the vector your coming at correct?

3.
belief in god or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.

Why do I gots to be evil Beardo?


----------



## beardo (Jul 22, 2011)

txhazard said:


> Why do I gots to be evil Beardo?


 Not you the O.P. who stated he had to go to bed a few pages ago a couple posts before he quit-


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Ha, well if you follow my opinion then you are probably aware of what I am going to say. Without getting into self-fulfilling interpretation and confirmation bias, and while quickly pointing out that you can examine just about any point in history and find prophetic signs, I would cite Occam's razor and ask why, when a 'huge coincidence' is within the possibility of natural occurrence, do you favor a supernatural explanation? It seems you are saying, I can't personally understand how these things could coincide, so it must be divine.
> 
> My favorite Athiest is Jesus, a Mexican friend I used to work with.


Ive yet to see anything supernatural.  Super Natural is suppose to kick off with the rapture when ever that happens. I do not favor supernatural signs cause i have yet to see anything, i want fact and i feel I have seen fact. Im just calling it like i see it.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

beardo said:


> Not you the O.P. who stated he had to go to bed a few pages ago a couple posts before he quit-


I was just joshing ya.


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> If we trust in a deity because of good reasons, we say "I trust for these reasons". If we can't explain our reasons or simply have none, we say "I trust because I have faith". Obviously trust is involved, but faith is the reason behind that trust. Faith does not need contrary evidence to exist, it simply needs the lack of answers.


Who is this we? 

Religion, spirituality, and faith can be very advanced subjects. The people who use faith in this way are misunderstanding the purpose. Yes, it is a lot of people, and yes, it is quite a lot of people that don't quite "get it" when it comes to their own religion. Even Jesus mentions several times that in his era people didn't get it no matter how many times he told them. If people who spoke to the man directly and could ask him questions about it can't get it, why would people 2000 years later, who have a politically corrupt, heavily modified, composited version of his teachings be any different?



Heisenberg said:


> And what about when things don't happen as they should? When it seems by our understanding that things are not as they should be, we simply distrust our understanding and cite faith as a reason for doing so.


Can you give an example? If it's injustice you speak of, someone who has put their faith into their deity will understand that what they are perceiving as injustice was something that was meant to happen, even if they cannot understand why. Still others prefer to maintain control over their own destiny, rather than surrendering their every choice and action to their god's whim. 

The school of thought that I was initially trained in has a bit of both of these. For the most part, one should write their own destiny and shape their future in the direction they want to go. However, in times of need, there is no shame in using specific prayers or rituals to put themselves into their gods hands, and let their life be steered in he direction deity has cosen for them. I this way, The gods are seen as "mom an dad" figures - they are there for you when you need them most, but under most circumstances, you should be handling your own shit and not crying for help.


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 22, 2011)

txhazard said:


> I understand your angle Heisenberg.
> 
> faith&#8194; &#8194;
> [feyth] Show IPA
> ...


So then you were saying, 

*Honestly my beliefs boil down to confidence in my Lord, there is more to it than that but in its primal capacity it is confidence.*

Okay but this doesn't help explain anything to anyone. You say your confidence comes from facts, I would think that those facts would be the important thing to mention, rather then the level of confidence in them. When trying to accept another's beliefs I am not reassured solely by the fact that they believe really hard. When we explain our belief in gravity it boils down to replicable results and predictable observations, not simply our confidence in the facts.


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 22, 2011)

txhazard said:


> Ive yet to see anything supernatural.  Super Natural is suppose to kick off with the rapture when ever that happens. I do not favor supernatural signs cause i have yet to see anything, i want fact and i feel I have seen fact. Im just calling it like i see it.


I suppose I was assuming your version of god is a divine being, I apologize. Is it?


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I suppose I was assuming your version of god is a divine being, I apologize. Is it?


I think he was just saying he doesn't consider prophecy to be supernatural.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Well I am not trying to explain the facts atm, I am simply inferring that my faith/reasoning is based on facts. 

I really would like to get down to the nitty gritty of what im talking about but it would potentially be a really long discussion and at the moment I am short on time. At the risk of sounding hypocritical/flaky, may, have a rain check? I would love to continue this conversation as this discussion has been very enjoyable to me. Say tomorrow?

Ill just start a thread or something and we can continue down that line of conversation if your really interested in what I am talking about.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

karri0n said:


> I think he was just saying he doesn't consider prophecy to be supernatural.


Yes sir you are correct. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit and all that neat jazz.

i consider my self to be a Christian (Protestant no denomination) not a Catholic which there is a difference.


----------



## karri0n (Jul 22, 2011)

txhazard said:


> Well I am not trying to explain the facts atm, I am simply inferring that my faith/reasoning is based on facts.
> 
> I really would like to get down to the nitty gritty of what im talking about but it would potentially be a really long discussion and at the moment I am short on time. At the risk of sounding hypocritical/flaky, may, have a rain check? I would love to continue this conversation as this discussion has been very enjoyable to me. Say tomorrow?
> 
> Ill just start a thread or something and we can continue down that line of conversation if your really interested in what I am talking about.


I'll be there bro.


----------



## txhazard (Jul 22, 2011)

Looking forward to it.


----------



## VILEPLUME (Jul 23, 2011)

Has anyone seen the movie Equilibrium?


----------



## gfreeman (Jul 23, 2011)

is that that movie where that fool can shoot everyone in the room with some funky dancin.?


----------



## VILEPLUME (Jul 23, 2011)

gfreeman said:


> is that that movie where that fool can shoot everyone in the room with some funky dancin.?


From the movie

"In a Fascist future where all forms of feeling are illegal, a man in charge of enforcing the law rises to overthrow the system."

A fight for free will.


----------



## Farfenugen (Jul 23, 2011)

They won't debate because 90% of the Christians think MJ is a devil weed


----------



## txhazard (Jul 23, 2011)

VILEPLUME said:


> Has anyone seen the movie Equilibrium?


Great movie.

Hey Heisenberg ill continue this convo at a later time, Im not gona have a lazy night at work tonight i have 13 work orders -_-.


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 23, 2011)

karri0n said:


> Who is this we?


I was using the term as a tool of expression. 'We' is referring to humans, and of course not meant to be a blanket statement.



> Religion, spirituality, and faith can be very advanced subjects. The people who use faith in this way are misunderstanding the purpose. Yes, it is a lot of people, and yes, it is quite a lot of people that don't quite "get it" when it comes to their own religion. Even Jesus mentions several times that in his era people didn't get it no matter how many times he told them. If people who spoke to the man directly and could ask him questions about it can't get it, why would people 2000 years later, who have a politically corrupt, heavily modified, composited version of his teachings be any different?


I only explained why I consider faith to be a poor justification for a belief. When someone says "my beliefs boil down to faith", they are speaking in the context of why they believe something. They are not speaking of a quality of worship. If faith is being misused then your point should be the same as mine, these people are in error.



> Can you give an example? If it's injustice you speak of, someone who has put their faith into their deity will understand that what they are perceiving as injustice was something that was meant to happen, even if they cannot understand why. Still others prefer to maintain control over their own destiny, rather than surrendering their every choice and action to their god's whim.


This seems to be my point. If anything that happens is meant to happen, how are we to ever distinguish between things that are wrong and right? If god gets credit for things like a baby being born healthy, then why does he not get blamed when the baby's lungs don't work? It would seem to have faith one must sacrifice objectivity, which again seems to be a poor way to reach the truth.



> The school of thought that I was initially trained in has a bit of both of these. For the most part, one should write their own destiny and shape their future in the direction they want to go. However, in times of need, there is no shame in using specific prayers or rituals to put themselves into their gods hands, and let their life be steered in he direction deity has cosen for them. I this way, The gods are seen as "mom an dad" figures - they are there for you when you need them most, but under most circumstances, you should be handling your own shit and not crying for help.


.
This is all predicated on god's existence. It seems to be saying that we should trust human reasoning and ability until it fails, at which time we should abandon it for the sake of supernatural support. The same supernatural being that designed reality to be such that our abilities and reasoning fail.


----------



## karri0n (Jul 23, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I was using the term as a tool of expression. 'We' is referring to humans, and of course not meant to be a blanket statement.


Fair enough - I was saying that to reinforce the point that you see below and to assert that not all people of faith use it in this way.


Heisenberg said:


> I only explained why I consider faith to be a poor justification for a belief. When someone says "my beliefs boil down to faith", they are speaking in the context of why they believe something. They are not speaking of a quality of worship. If faith is being misused then your point should be the same as mine, these people are in error.


I agree.



Heisenberg said:


> This seems to be my point. If anything that happens is meant to happen, how are we to ever distinguish between things that are wrong and right? If god gets credit for things like a baby being born healthy, then why does he not get blamed when the baby's lungs don't work? It would seem to have faith one must sacrifice objectivity, which again seems to be a poor way to reach the truth.


If this baby was not born healthy, then that's what was fated to happen. In a monotheistic sense, if God is the one who determines each and every person's destiny, then yes, it was part of his plan(or "his fault" if you will) that this baby didn't make it. From a polytheistic standpoint, however, one could pray or make sacrament to Frigg, the Norse goddess of pregnancy and childbirth for a healthy child. However, if this was not the fate that the Norns, the weavers of fate, set for this child, Frigg would not have the ability to change it. 

I'm not sure where objectivity has been lost, can you elaborate?



Heisenberg said:


> .
> This is all predicated on god's existence.


Which is fine as long as we aren't using faith alone as our "evidence".



Heisenberg said:


> It seems to be saying that we should trust human reasoning and ability until it fails, at which time we should abandon it for the sake of supernatural support. The same supernatural being that designed reality to be such that our abilities and reasoning fail.


I was referring more to when we feel that the stress of life has reached a point that we feel we have reached a breaking point. I wouldn't abandon my own abilities and reasoning faculties just because I placed my destiny into my god's hands. Depending on your god, abandoning your own critical thinking skills after taking this action could be anything from frowned upon by your god, to utter folly.


----------



## Chocolate Thia (Jul 24, 2011)

Funny. I'm thinking of the wars we had and wondering what part of the fight could have been prevented by us all declaring our selves atheist.....

No, nothing gonna change if we were all atheist. Still would have fought the wars....

Hmm. I guess being an atheist doesn't change much killing after all... But continue the nonsense. Because certainly you have a point. It's the hat your wearing....


----------



## Heisenberg (Jul 28, 2011)

Chocolate Thia said:


> Funny. I'm thinking of the wars we had and wondering what part of the fight could have been prevented by us all declaring our selves atheist.....
> 
> No, nothing gonna change if we were all atheist. Still would have fought the wars....
> 
> Hmm. I guess being an atheist doesn't change much killing after all... But continue the nonsense. Because certainly you have a point. It's the hat your wearing....


Advances in medicine and agriculture have saved vastly more lives than have been lost in all the wars in history. ​ Carl Sagan​


----------



## karri0n (Jul 29, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Advances in medicine and agriculture have saved vastly more lives than have been lost in all the wars in history. ​&#8212; Carl Sagan​


Both of which were mostly developed by the nation of Islam...

regardless....

At what cost? These "Advances" in agriculture have caused massive ecological trauma on a global scale, possibly irreversibly within a forseeable timeframe.

As far as medical advances, most of the benefit is due to improved hygiene and sanitation, and not due to pharmaceuticals. There is quite a bit of evidence that many pharmaceuticals have caused more harm than good(with the exception of some antibiotics). We do have more precise instruments and some better forms of testing, but at its core ,modern medicine, with its continued focus on amputation and the removal of organs, is just as barbaric as it was in the middle ages, albeit with better hygiene. Chemotherapy is arguably more barbaric than some of the medicine in times past.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

why cant any of you prove your god exists ? it should be simple ? why do so many different cultures believe in so many different gods ,if there is only one god ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

lets get back to the original debate ..............prove that your god exists it should be simple .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

well that depends on wether it matters to him if his beliefs are true and real if it dosent matter to him wether they are true and real he might aswell worship my toe nail .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

how can anyone devote there lives to something they cant prove to themselves or anyone else even exists ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

all the arguments religious people use , can be used for anything , i could say i believe in the 3 headed gobbly goop god , and then go on and use all your arguments , to try to convince people its real . now if you said you worshipped the sun , you could easily prove that there is a sun and it would be alot more credibal .i cant undestand why everything else that is real can be proven yet when it comes down to GODS we have to have faith lol i smell serious amounts of BULLSHIT .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

i could make up a word like , spirit , and then give it a simillair meaning , but it dosent make it real , you have to prove something is real and true and if it is reral and true then its easy to prove it .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

hmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmm im smoking purple kush again it smells better than fanny .


----------



## Farfenugen (Jul 29, 2011)

I am my own god, unto myself and not some dinky religion
it's too bad that religious fanaticism has influenced so many politicians, so much so that everything we do is
either ungodly or unpatriotic
look at the middle east and the nutlims


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

Farfenugen said:


> I am my own god, unto myself and not some dinky religion
> it's too bad that religious fanaticism has influenced so many politicians, so much so that everything we do is
> either ungodly or unpatriotic
> look at the middle east and the nutlims


agreed ......


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

i can prove a t rex once existed why cant you prove your god exists ?


----------



## karri0n (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> why do so many different cultures believe in so many different gods ,if there is only one god ?


Because there *isn't* only one god. Your own question contradicts itself. This is not rocket surgery here, please try to keep up.



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i could say i believe in the 3 headed gobbly goop god


And if you truly did, it would be just as valid as anyone else's beliefs.



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> now if you said you worshipped the sun


I do.



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yet when it comes down to GODS we have to have faith lol i smell serious amounts of BULLSHIT .


Read some of the posts in this thread to see why you're misunderstanding the meaning of the word faith.



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you have to prove something is real and true and if it is reral and true then its easy to prove it .


Is it easy to prove true love?



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i can prove a t rex once existed why cant you prove your god exists ?


Gods don't have physical remains.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

at karrion.....................................Sooooooooooooo , theres now more than one god ? im sure many religious cults, groups etc will beg to differ ,

yes my three headed gobbly goop god is as 'valid ' as any other god .

i actualy respect your worship of the sun as it gives life to everything and can actualy be proven that it exists .

'faith' is something religious people made up to justify there belief in nothing .

no its not easy to prove true love , but that is a human emotion , that can easily be faked , i dont get your point .

yes its very convienent that ....YOUR GOD HAS NO PHYSICAL REMAINS .................neither does my gobbly goop god tee hee hee


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

we are back to the same old point .every argument you use, i can use for my gobbly goop god .......dosent that ring alarm bells in your heads ? why cant you simply prove your god exists , why cant any religion or belief or whatever you want to call it, prove it exists ? why ?


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 29, 2011)

how about lets kung fu instead?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

bigbillyrocka said:


> how about lets kung fu instead?


im a black belt in the ancient art of 'poke in the eye '


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> im a black belt in the ancient art of 'poke in the eye '


hahaha awesome! but i know block techniques such as hand on nose....


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

bigbillyrocka said:


> hahaha awesome! but i know block techniques such as hand on nose....


 ha ha that made me picture two dudes poking at each other and gettin blocked lol


----------



## karri0n (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> at karrion.....................................Sooooooooooooo , theres now more than one god ? im sure many religious cults, groups etc will beg to differ ,


"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." - A quote from the King James Bible, acknowledging that other gods do indeed exist, but it is blaspehmous towards Jehovah to worship any others. There is only one "true" god, if you are indeed a follower of that god. Since I'm not, I'm not really worried about it.



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yes my three headed gobbly goop god is as 'valid ' as any other god .


No, It *would* be if you actually worshipped it. You don't, so it's just nonsense.

[


ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i actualy respect your worship of the sun as it gives life to everything and can actualy be proven that it exists .


Wow, I'm ELATED to have your "respect"  



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> 'faith' is something religious people made up to justify there belief in nothing .


No, faith means trust. I have faith that the floor isn't going to fall out from under me, and I have faith in the road that the gods lay before me.



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no its not easy to prove true love , but that is a human emotion , that can easily be faked , i dont get your point .


Yes you do. Don't be disingenuous. "If it's real and true it should be easy to prove". Love is real, but it's not easy to prove. Saying "I don't get your point" when someone disproves one of your points does not make you a winner. It makes you a child.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

at karrion ....................

quoting your bible is about as effective as me quoting 'james and the giant peach ' by rhoal dahl , your bible has no credibal evidence in this argument .

i could say 'i worship the sun ' what do i have to do ? go to church ? like 80 % of christians ermm dont do lol 

im glad you hounor my respect , its not easily given out .

i 'trust ' you are not telling lies lol ..........prove this road exists , my god layed a road out before me too , but my god is called wee willy watermelon .

i still dont get where your going wid dis argument ? ............you cant prove i love you , i can flutter my eye lids, i can marry you , i can have sex with you , i can tell you i love you , you cant prove other wise , what is this proving ? 
i can fake all the signs that makes you think i love you .


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> at karrion ....................
> 
> quoting your bible is about as effective as me quoting 'james and the giant peach ' by rhoal dahl , your bible has no credibal evidence in this argument .
> 
> ...


 Their are many well known facts in the Bible, also scientific knowledge and history in the Bible- All proven and accepted by modern science.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> Their are many well known facts in the Bible, also scientific knowledge and history in the Bible- All proven and accepted by modern science.



lol such as .................id fuckin love to hear this ???????????


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

God is every bit as real as love, trust, honor, dignity, and happiness.


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ha ha that made me picture two dudes poking at each other and gettin blocked lol


lol now that u mention it...kinda reminds me of 3 stooges.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> God is every bit as real as love, trust, honor, dignity, and happiness.


<takes big pull on joint > yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan god is just an emotion humans have lol <blows smoke out >>


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

Job26:7
Job 38:16 
Hebrews 11:13 
Genesis 6:15 
Deuteronomy 23: 12-13,
Read these, think about what it is explaining.
These are only a couple examples


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> <takes big pull on joint > yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan god is just an emotion humans have lol <blows smoke out >>


 What is emotion? Where does it come from?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> Job26:7
> Job 38:16
> Hebrews 11:13
> Genesis 6:15
> ...



ive read them , what do you want me to say ? any decent religious person would at least admit the bible can not be used as evidence that a god exists .
all the other religious books contradict the bible .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

emotion is a thought your brain has


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> What is emotion? Where does it come from?


emotion comes from ones inner self. Ones most precious gifts of life. Yet can be ones ultimate demise.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

where do dreams come from ? ...............inside your brain , the human brain is easily halucinated


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ive read them , what do you want me to say ? any decent religious person would at least admit the bible can not be used as evidence that a god exists .
> all the other religious books contradict the bible .


 Can you offer an explination.for how this wisdom came to be known through the bible long before it was known or accepted by science?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

bigbillyrocka said:


> emotion comes from ones inner self. Ones most precious gifts of life. Yet can be ones ultimate demise.


what is 'ones inner self ' ? its very romantic poetry but its meaningless


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> where do dreams come from ? ...............inside your brain , the human brain is easily halucinated


 God made it possible, you can not create a brain only God could invent life, he is to thank for all we think see and do.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> Can you offer an explination.for how this wisdom came to be known through the bible long before it was known or accepted by science?



your question dosent make any sense in english ?


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ive read them , what do you want me to say ? any decent religious person would at least admit the bible can not be used as evidence that a god exists .
> all the other religious books contradict the bible .


 Before micro scopes their was-
Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3). Not until the 19th century was it discovered that all visible matter consists of invisible elements.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> God made it possible, you can not create a brain only God could invent life, he is to thank for all we think see and do.


that is so stupid .................i can not create a brain, no.why do you assume, only something you call a god ,can create life ? why do you thank this thing /god when you cant even prove to yourself it exists ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo you are typing total nonsense no one believes in your verses from the bible they can not be proven , you might as well be reading verses from the BFG by rhoal dahl


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> that is so stupid .................i can not create a brain, no.why do you assume, only something you call a god ,can create life ? why do you thank this thing /god when you cant even prove to yourself it exists ?


 Nothing else can create life in a sterile vacuum proving God created life.
You can offer no other credible explination


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> beardo you are typing total nonsense no one believes in your verses from the bible they can not be proven , you might as well be reading verses from the BFG by rhoal dahl


 The Bible specifies the perfect dimensions for a stable water vessel (Genesis 6:15). Ship builders today are well aware that the ideal dimension for ship stability is a length six times that of the width. Keep in mind, God told Noah the ideal dimensions for the ark 4,500 years ago.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> Nothing else can create life in a sterile vacuum proving God created life.
> You can offer no other credible explination


explain how the fuck does that make your god the creator of this life this planet this universe you chat pure bullshit my friend


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> what is 'ones inner self ' ? its very romantic poetry but its meaningless


im very poetically inclined.  

i would have to say that the conscience is ones inner self. im not trying to debate here.(obviously lol)


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> The Bible specifies the perfect dimensions for a stable water vessel (Genesis 6:15). Ship builders today are well aware that the ideal dimension for ship stability is a length six times that of the width. Keep in mind, God told Noah the ideal dimensions for the ark 4,500 years ago.


so fuckin what ? that is not proving anything but coincedence


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> beardo you are typing total nonsense no one believes in your verses from the bible they can not be proven , you might as well be reading verses from the BFG by rhoal dahl


 The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22). At a time when many thought the earth was flat, the Bible told us that the earth is spherical.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so fuckin what ? that is not proving anything but coincedence



this absolutely no record in science of a flood that coverd earth in the time of noah , theres evidence of other smaller floods in the rocks but absolutely no evidence what so ever of noahs flood , strange that isnt it ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22). At a time when many thought the earth was flat, the Bible told us that the earth is spherical.



listen even the basic of christain debators acknowledge that the bible can not be used in any argument for a god existing as it is a tale of something that happend in a time before it was wrote , its not an eye witneess statement and even if it was it would still not be enought to prove that it was factual .


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> this absolutely no record in science of a flood that coverd earth in the time of noah , theres evidence of other smaller floods in the rocks but absolutely no evidence what so ever of noahs flood , strange that isnt it ?


 Do you under stand the bible and it's stories are meant to teach lessons- they are parables.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

you have to get over quoting from your silly bible , i could a write a simmilar book and quote from it, but it has the same credibiltity, as your bible .
you cant prove any part of your bible is true .


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> listen even the basic of christain debators acknowledge that the bible can not be used in any argument for a god existing as it is a tale of something that happend in a time before it was wrote , its not an eye witneess statement and even if it was it would still not be enought to prove that it was factual .


 Paul wrote eye witness accounts while in prison- They are in the Bible.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> Do you under stand the bible and it's stories are meant to teach lessons- they are parables.


nursery rhymes teach lessons too , so does burning your hand on the hot stove .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> Paul wrote eye witness accounts while in prison- They are in the Bible.


like i said, even if it was proven(wich it could never be ) that the bible was an eye witness account , it still wouldnt be credibal evidence , many people lie in eye witness accounts .


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> nursery rhymes teach lessons too , so does burning your hand on the hot stove .


 Both offer solid foundations for youth to build uppon and are important lessons to learn, as are those taught in the Bible.
Good luck keep practicing-


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

we are back to the same point .............why cant you prove your god exists , it should be so easy ........?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> Both offer solid foundations for youth to build uppon and are important lessons to learn, as are those taught in the Bible.
> 
> 
> Good luck keep practicing-



yeah but one is known to be fictional the other is often thought as of fact


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

listen mate you have to forget about using the bible in your argument , otherswise you will be ripped apart, like i just did to you ,all day long ........all day long


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> listen mate you have to forget about using the bible in your argument , otherswise you will be ripped apart, like i just did to you ,all day long ........all day long


 You Have no dabate skills and no origonal points or arguments- and have lost another round.
Tell your self whatever you need to to make yourself feel better.
I will check back later and see if your skills have improved.


----------



## doser (Jul 29, 2011)

the best religion is the one that makes you a better person
I'd keep lookin if I was you
Seems you have a way to go


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

beardo said:


> You Have no dabate skills and no origonal points or arguments- and have lost another round.
> Tell your self whatever you need to to make yourself feel better.
> I will check back later and see if your skills have improved.


 err yeah ok mate , all you have done is quote verses from your little book of bullshit , even the basic christian has enough sense to know quoting the little fairy tale book has no more credibility than me quoting the side of a pack of corn flakes .

you my friend have been owned big time .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 29, 2011)

have you ever walked into a door and then had it spin back and twat you in the nose ,in a busy ,posh restaurant ? this is how beardo is feeling right now .


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

Has anyone ever committed acts of blasphemy against a God you swear doesn't exist
But had a nagging fear that he could exist and that he could know of the sins you have committed, that he might know of your envy and pride and penchant for deranged acts of homosexual bestiality. Knowledge that if he does exist he sees everything that you do and knows everything that you think- Knowing you are to be judged accordingly and that no wicked deed shall go unpunished, Knowing that all you have to do is accept God and live your life in his honor to be saved and that if you do not an eternity in hell is what awaits you?
Has that fear and uncertainty caused you to devote your life to lashing out at people who have faith and find truth and peace in God and Religion 
That's how sativa is feeling right now.


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

[youtube]VFkRnCPC7AY[/youtube][youtube]gcREAtjow9E[/youtube]


----------



## olylifter420 (Jul 29, 2011)

how do i know that you exist? you truly have issues!

why are you better then anyone else?

Who made you king?

how do you know that cat doesnt hate you?

you must feel real good about yourself dont you?

there are things i can tell you, but you wont believe them because you have already made up your mind... Arguing with you is like arguing with a drunk, no point will ever be reached...

I dont know why you are such a dick.. why do you HATE people who believe in God? what gave you the right to be more then me or beardo? 





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> we are back to the same point .............why cant you prove your god exists , it should be so easy ........?


----------



## beardo (Jul 29, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah im better at debating than all those guys , im asking in my own thread .no one can can cum up wid anything to make me believe in there certain god


 You can not make someone believe.
If you are looking for proof of God, The fact you are alive should be all the proof you need.


----------



## SocataSmoker (Jul 30, 2011)

My 'God' is that which provides me food, shelter, and the basic needs of my life... I love my Mother Earth.

There are many gods around in my understanding of things, the Sun as we know it... an amazing God it is as well, for it also gives me life and allows Mother Earth to survive!


----------



## Brazko (Jul 30, 2011)

beardo said:


> You can not make someone believe.
> If you are looking for proof of God, The fact you are alive should be all the proof you need.


There is no need to make him believe God/gods exist because he already believes. He provided his own proof when he explained the existence of love. Love in its true form he said is a thought, and even that thought can be imitated outside of its true being. In either case they both exist and are given reality through their portrayal. Therefore God exists to him in its nonexistents. The non existent God also controls and dictates his daily life. Something that a non existent god could do. 

His good goobly Goo god has no power over me.


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jul 30, 2011)

There is no way to prove God dose not exist nor is their a way to prove that he dose,because we seek proof of his existence in such a way that it could never meet the expectations or standards of mental tangibility or apparent human logic, given youre an atheist.So we are left with either choosing faith or not,for those that do believe and worship,thats a life style choice, while other people want the answers that the faithful choose not to look for,which is good to seek that truth and not be controlled by the machinations of other people with agendas posing as holy people.Yet there is a need or a call to sequester logic in the reality of our very existence,given humankinds logic is of a systematic nature and can therefore only perceive what is within reasoning itself,the concept of God and having a creator encroaches upon this innate understanding we have,therefore we are inclined to question it always.Essentially it is the perspective or belief of the person delving this topic that will equate the answer as to whether or not god exists.


----------



## Charlie Who? (Jul 30, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i bet no fucker will debate with me cause they know deep down there belief is total nonsense .


Nah. That aint the reason.
The reason is, there's zero point. Neither position CAN be proved.....at least by any living person. ya gotta be dead, first. Once we're dead, there will still be no point in arguing, LOL---because IF we're still around TO argue, clearly we're "still there". if we've blinked out of existance, clearly there will be no "one" to do the arguing.

What I find most interesting is, there are still people who want to re-argue this tired old subject.

If you dont want to believe there is some kind of "god", that's your perogitive. If I choose to believe there is a Divine Intelligence, that's mine. In a hundred million years, you nor your fellow atheists cant and wont "prove" a damn thing. Neither will I and several billion other Believers "prove" a damn thing to you.

So....if we can agree on any one thing, let's agree that this endeavor is a complete and utter waste of your time, mine and everybody else who even reads these posts.

With that said, hey, WTF, I aint busy.

What twists my tits the most about you atheists is your overwhelming hubris. (look it up)

From the lofty pinnacle of your own six poind brain, your____years of experience, your limited-by-necissity point of view, you guys still insist you "know" something you cannot possibly know. It never fails to crack me up. Reminds me of any schoolyard 8 year old insisting there IS, by god (or is not) a Santa Claus.

This weighty hubris doesnt allow you to simply acknowledge, "I dont really know Jack Shit". Nope....you guys just gotta pretend that your guess, impression, opinion is actually founded upon Something, LOL.

And it IS!

It's based upon your essential lack of imagination, smallness of scope, micro-vision (as opposed to Macro-vision) and a child-like ego that continues to insist IT is the center of the Universe, the Point from which ALL wisdom flows.

It's been my experience that generally when people claim to be atheists, what they mean is, they cant buy into christian mythology.

Well, congrats. You must have an IQ above 90 to have realized virgins dont give birth, dead guys dont rise from the grave and Moses wrote that silly crap all by himself, no "Voice" from a burning bush calling itself "I AM" said shit

And generally, having risen above a knee-jerk 'faith" in this mythology, typically, any greater concept of "god" gets thrown out with the bath water. It's such a pathetically linear thought progression...."I KNOW this Bible stuff is bullshit, therefore, there is no God."

Good grief. 

Or the Other Thing happens. Many an atheist USED to have some kind of vague acceptance of the possibility of a Godhead UNTIL a personal "tragedy" of some sort occured. "IF there was a God, He wouldnt have let MY sweet old mom die!" (or dad, or child or favorite dog) Thousands of moms, dads, kids and dogs died before, but MINE should be given special consideration because, hey, I am ME!"

Atheism always (read my lips, ALWAYS) stems from this ME as Center of the Universe perspective. Ego. "IF there were a God, I would KNOW it. I dont know it, therefore, there IS NO GOD."

Holding on to the atheist POV requires a great deal of dismissal of the experience of Others. Anybody who claims to have seen a ghost, anybody who claims to have have had a near Death Experience, anybody who claims to remember a past life, anybody who gas had a personal Revelation of Spirit is clearly either a blithering moron OR simply lying thru his teeth. MORE hubris? Sort of, "I have never seen a ghost, therefore, there are no ghosts."? "I have never had a personal Revelation, therefore NOBODY has"? "I have no recollection a a past life....therefore reincarnation is a hoax"?

By that same "logic", I can say with certainty that there is no Wyoming. I have never been to Wyoming, therefore there is no Wyoming. Wyoming is a fantacy, a myth. IF such a thing as Wyoming existed, well, I woulda seen it (because, after all, I AM THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE, dammit.

Basically, you guys bore the piss outa me. You're tiny. Small. Simple. And because you're tiny and simple, you have to believe the Universe is tiny and simple, too. "It all happened spontaneously, with the Big Bang".

Let me point something out. Before we build a house, first we THINK, "hey...Im gonna build a house!" The THOUGHT exists, first....and the physical manifestation of the house follows. The actual pile of bricks/mortar and glass arranged into the shape we call, "a house" is insignificant, a natural follow-through of the Thought/Inspiration, "Im gonna build a house!"

Would any house exist without that Inspiration? How many houses build themselves?
In fact, isnt the IDEA the truly critical part? The ONE part upon which the actual physical manifestation rests and relies?

Let's say the IDEA is primary and the house is secondary. (or, do you want to argue that obvious point, too?) With this in mind, WHERE was the physical Universe the second BEFORE the Big Bang? WHAT was the Impetus? WHOSE, the Idea, the Inspiration?

Here's the thing. The Thinga Importanta, if you will: ALL things exist on the Causal Plane BECAUSE they first existed on the Plane of Potential. The Soup of Possibility. The Matrix. This is the SAME plane in which dreams exist. In the dream state, I can fly. On this manifest physical plane, alas, I cannot. I am bound by physical forces of gravity. In the Dream state, I can walk thru walls. Alas....in this manifest physical reality, I cannot.

How sadly limited we are, caught within this Realm bounded by the physical Laws. (interestingly, Einstein defined "God" as, "The sum total of the physical laws of the Universe". I like Einstein as much as the next guy, but on this, he was just a little off. God exists OUTSIDE the physical laws. The physical laws only apply to the physical Universe. During the alloted 72 years we spend inside a physical body, we, too are bound within those physical limits and laws.

The issue at hand is, did I (we) exist BEFORE and will I (we) still exist AFTER our bonds to the physical are cut by birth/death? Do we pop into existence at the moment of conception and blink out again when we flat line?

Maybe.

Or is this experience we call, "life" merely a short (damn short) journey into the physical---with a built in loss of memory of what came before?

Atheists believe that consciousness is a by-product of brain activity. Thus, when the brain dies, so does consciousness.

But I suggest, not by a long shot. Consciousness IS that Matrix of Potential. Consciousness is not individual, not corralled within any individual brain, but Universal. It IS the very Stuff of God, Itself. Before we were conceived into the physical, Consciousness existed. AFTER the brain dies, that Consciousness continues on, NON physically. The crappy little 72 years we spend bound by physical laws is irrelevent in the Big Picture of MANY Lives, punctuated by MANY ventures back to the NON physical or Causal Plane.

The ONE Constant, whether we are currently physical or not is God, Itself. The Manifestor, the Creator, the Matrix, the Stuff of Potential. THERE IS NO OLD GUY WITH A BEARD AND A LONG WHITE ROBE. Nobody who looks surprisingly like Charlton Heston is goona meet you at the "Pearly Gate"....because "He" AND the "pearly Gate" are nothing more than christian mythology, having nothing to do with The Creator.

And there's about an hour of my life I'll never get back, LOL.

Fortunately, I aint busy. I notice I didnt "prove" a goddamn thing.

Feel free to waste an hour or so of YOUR time, gentle atheist.....trying to "prove" me "wrong". The one caution Im compelled to utter is, your time is clearly much shorter than mine if you believe you ONLY have the relative blink of time your physical life alloows you. You might be better off getting laid or eating a cheesburger. Time is running out, man, for you and all the other little atheists.


CW


----------



## Charlie Who? (Jul 30, 2011)

beardo said:


> You can not make someone believe.
> If you are looking for proof of God, The fact you are alive should be all the proof you need.


 
LOL! See, I totally GET that. Anybody who has ever seen a corpse oughta be able to see it. The only difference between a corpse and a living person is that the corpse has been "unplugged". Like a toaster, from that which animatess it--a toaster MUST be animated by electricity. UNplug it and it's dead.

WE are animated by Spirit...or "God". That which we call, "death" is the UNplugging of the physical body from that which animates us. If the toaster is unplugged, we dont doubt the existence of electricity. We recognise the toaster is simply no longer connected to it. The electricity itself is a constant.... unquestioned. Who would say, "OMG! My toaster doesnt work! Therefore, there is no electricity!"

CW


----------



## Charlie Who? (Jul 30, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> come on christians fuckin debate if your so real it should be no problem .


Ooops! Gee, I shoulda read further, LOL. So you ARE one of those who figures, "Since christian mythology is BS, There Is No God, at all."

BIG NEWS! Christianity is a VERY young religion. For MANY milinea beofe the birth of JC, people looked around themselves and said, "SOMEBODY created all this". In the beginning was/is The Mother. Early humans assumed That Which Creates Life must be Female. Our First God was The Great Mother. Gender was attributed to the moon, ever changing, as female. The sun, ever bright and constant, was assumed to be male. Jesus showed up about five thousand years later, in the mid east, where the Patriarchy ruled---and naturally created themselves a FATHER god. The "Great Mother" wass abandoned in order to support the notion of male dominance and superiority.

Had it not been for Constantine pushing the new religion called, "Christianity" out from Rome into the rest of the Roman-dominated world, we westerners woiuld STILL be worshipping The Great Mother and celebrating the Wheel of the Year (solstices and equinoxes), all "provable" by even 21st century standards. Judeaism insisted God was a male....Christianity insisted upon the notion that God was a male.....and JC was his "son". Interestingly, JC NEVER claimed to be the LITERAL "son of God". He consistantly referred to himself as the "son of Man." His references to his "heavenly Father" were not individual, but universal, in that all men are the "sons of God".

Not until some five hundred years after JC's death was it decided (by men) that JC was the LITERAL "son of God". I personally think JC would be apalled. I think JC wanted all people to know that ALL are God's children, not JUST the Jews (of which he was a member). I dont think he ever intended to be a founder of a new religion, let alone considered to BE a virtual extension of God the Creator. I think he'd shit, in fact, that his followers "made" him a god when his own Belief as a Jew was, "There shall be NO other Gods before me."

Christians decided to make JC the literal "son of God" for political reasons---making THEIR Deity better than any god who came earlier. The Power of Politics--- IF we can make people believe JC IS the ONLY Path to God....then WE can control everything. Thus, the Catholic Church was born, LOL...the single most powerful and wealthy force on the planet to date. And IF we can convince people to "confess their sins".....well....what secrets WONT we know?

Come on. Christianity was born of politics,. not spirituality. Spirituality is NOT about any particular group having the Inside Track to Eternal Life. Jesus KNEW this--his entire message was this. That ALL men were the children of God. But this was radical shit in his day and could not be allowed if Jews were to continue to believe they alone were the "Chosen" people. Not to even mention the politics of the day, insisting that Rome was the Center of God's world and the Emperor alone was at the pinacle.

Im not surprised Christianity got started---Im just a bit gob-smacked it still exists in the Age of Reason. Seriously....does anybody still favor the "miracle" of "virgin birth" over the much more likely possibility a 15 year old Jewish girl finding herself pregnant out of wedlock and needed a damn good excuse? Especially when a prophecy of such a birth already existed? What a smart chick she was! "hey, listen, Joseph..... OK, so Im pregnant...but listen, I SWEAR this Angel of the Lord came to me, and....."

WHO the fuck would even begin to believe such a load of crap today? The one guaranteed thing about humans is, IF somebody writes down a "prophecy", you can count on somebody else making sure it's "fulfilled". Even JC himself sent one of his guys to buy a white donkey so he could ride into town on it---to fulfil the prophecy that the "Mesiah" would arrive on a white donkey. 

That the Nicean Council decided on WHICH testimonies would be included in their Bible and which would not .....should be the first clue that just MAYBE the Bible doesnt tell the full story....yet, today's Christians, even knowing that MANY ancient scrolls have been discovered much more recently than the much-edited scrolls their Bible is (loosely) based upon are extant....just sort of ignore them.

Fooey, sez I. I am the Blood and Blood of thousands of generations of Western European stock, not a single mid Easterner among them. Im fine with the Old Religion of MY people--the Celts, the Druids, those who worshipped the Great Mother for many years before the birth of The Carpenter in a land so far away, a culture so far removed, from Us.

But, WTF, Im OK with anybody who does choose Christianity, long as they dont really believe they ALONE are "the Children" of God and have a Free Pass to Eternal Life. Really....would you join a County Club that excluded Jews, Hispanics or Blacks? Nooooo, most would be horrified at that obvious injustice. But, the notion of the exclusion of billions of souls because they are not christians still seems reasonable? Is God a rasist? A few billion Buddhists, Hindus, etc. can what....just go fuck themselves?

Something I find really intriguing is this: There is amazing little known about the man we call, "St. Patrick". We all wear green and get drunk once a year in his honor....but most have no idea at all who the fuck he was.

You can google him....and learn everything there is to know, which aint too damn much. We know he was kidnapped and sold into slavery....then escaped....became a priest, went back to the British Isles and "reformed" the Old Religion. Huh.

We're told he converted the Druids with his sermon about the three leafedd clover, the "trifoil", by pointing out that the clover had three leaves, one for the Father, one for the Sone and one for the Holy Ghost.

Are you kidden me? What growup who had worshipped the Goddess for 10 thousand years would just give up their beliefs over a goddam three leaved clover? I mean, seriously? Yet....what little history has left us regarding this retreat from the Old Religion and to the New one assures us this is exactly what happened. Evidently, thousands of Druids saw that fing clover, threw down their ancient beliefs and said, "JC for ME!"

Get the fuck outa town. What history doesn not tell us is....how many men with swords came WITH Patricius to the British Isles? How many were slaughtered before the Druids said, "well, OK....JC for me"? WHY ELSE was the Old Religion driven underground?

I dont give a rat's ass if you or anyone else decides to call himself an atheist. I mind hell out of the ignorence of believing the alternative is being a Christian. Trust me, there are any number of alternatives to Christianity. Before deciding there is No God, you might devote a bit of time to the study of the OTHER religions....Buddhism, Hinduism are a good start. (not to even mention Conducianism, Jainism, Taoism, the Soufs, et.etc.etc.) If those dont appeal, look into the Native American religions, the African religions, the Australian Aborigine beliefs, and if all those fail and you're a white guy of western European descent, you might just be a Pagan at heart.

That you even assume the two sides of the issue are Christianity and/or atheism
as if NO other alternatives count reveals way too much ignorence on your part.. You're just yet another of the many who dont buy the Christian mythology and jump to the conclusion, "if that aint so, then there aint no god.".

HINT: There are as many Paths to God as there are people looking for God.

CW


----------



## Charlie Who? (Jul 30, 2011)

beardo said:


> I just told you God was great.
> I'm in the other thread to.
> Vagina is the center of the universe and proof God exists-pussy makes people and God made pussy.


Thus, the enduring respect for the Great Mother. Is it an accident that men spend their lives striving to get back IN to the Great Pussy from whence they came?

The "sex drive" is actually Man's attempt to re-unite with God, Herself. Fortunately, every Woman carries with her this Sacred Portal to the Goddess.

Seriously....dont you see that the moment of orgasm/ejaculation IS the Big Bang? In Human-size terms? To be IN that moment of mindless-but-complete creative ecstacy IS the closest we can come (no pun intended) to being WITH Her at the moment She said, "let there be Light"?

Why do men strive to become rich? To get pussy. Why does a man buy a Rolex? To get pussy. Why does a man go to war? To get pussy. A man will do pretty much anything, lie, steal, cheat, whatever it takes.....for Pussy. Pussy is The Holy Grail. Why?

Any man who believes in Pussy believes in God. He just doesnt know why. It's because on a primal level, every man knows the Goddess is Everything. The Pussy represents the Goddess, the Giver of Life, The Great Mother. The oldest of the Gods of Man. We all came from it....and spend all our lives trying to get back into it. The reason is symbolic. We may THINK, "Man...Im sure horny. I sure need me some PUSSY!" But IF we were able to really see into the depths, deep into the layers of the Onion (so to speak), we'd know what we really crave is to be re-united with God, if for only a few seconds. In this physical body, a couple of seconds of extacy and a squirt orr two is the best we can do to Create. it's a poor, tiny substitute for the Real Thing, the Creation of a Universe....but hey, it's better than nothing and it drives us from puberty til death.



CW


----------



## Charlie Who? (Jul 30, 2011)

vapedup said:


> I think sativa needs. Some legit lsd, with dmt on the come down, trust me, u will. Really walk with. Someone then! Might not be "god", that's cuse it is. Spirit!


Actually...this is how I came to Know God. I was tripping on some Windowpane acid in about 1970 or so, in a park with some other folks, also tripping. There was a picnic table and on it was a slice of watermelon.

I was sitting there, HEAVY tripping, gazing at the slice of watermelon.

I noticed the melon went from the deepest, most pure green on the outside...to the purest, clear, vibrant red on the inside....opposite colors on the color wheel. Yet....that transaction from purest green to purest red happened in less than one inch of actual space. ONE INCH....for color to go across the entire spectrum.....in what I suddenly realized was just ONE tiny, daily Miracle. Who even notices a watermelon rind? Yet, EVERY watermelon held the potential for somebody to simply SEE it's magnificence. It's quiet and humble ability to cross the color spectrum from opposite to opposite within ONE inch....and without a single clear point at which I could see the change.

I mean....THERE it was! A Miracle of Perfection, right there for MY eyes....in a humble fruit left casually on an old wooden table ion a park.

Not a big fancy cathedral....not a huge, expebnsive church...just an old wooden table. No huge crowd of adoring worshipers. Just me. One Hippy kid, sitting alone at a tabl;e, whose eyes had been Opened enabling me to See. And I knew, in that moment that God was subtly lurking everywhere.

Perfections. Amazing and subtle....the entire spectrum of color going from one extreme to the opposite withing one crumm inch of sheer Perfection, quietly, subtly, calling no attention at all. The Miracle just Was. Available to any who chose to See, willing to not be seen at all.

And I knew, in that moment, that I was looking at a watermellon slice....but was Seeing God.

CW

I then moved my focus...all around me. The trees, the lake, the clouds, the blue, blue sky.....and I Saw It there, too. IT was everywhere, there for the Looking.

But first, ya gotta See.

So, when someone fails to See....and says, "There aint no god...." I say," YES, there is. And IT's everywhere around you......IF you can See.

CW"


----------



## Charlie Who? (Jul 30, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> even if what your saying is true wich i highly doubt it is , what you are saying is i need a drug only discoverd in the 1946s to see god lol you my friend are stupid


No, that isnt it, at all. LSD is ONE way to Spirit. NOT the ONLY way.

Ever heard of a "Whirling Dervish"? Probably not. A Dervish is a branch of the Hindu religion, and the prqactiocioners spin. For hours. They just spin and spin, whirling in a circle. Sometime as they spin, they are overcome with Spirit, transcend to another plane and experience God.

In west Africa, practicioners drum and chant and dance. Some of them will be filled with "Spirit" and taken over.

In Appalachia, some Christians handle poisonous snakes. They are taken over by, filled with, the "Holy Ghost" and believe the snakes wont bite them, or if they do, cannot harm them....because they are filled with the Holy Ghost.

The Indian Fakir meditates to the point of reducing his heart rate to less than 10 beats per minute and can stay in a box under water for ten minutes or more, evidently not needing air, because he is temporarily not IN his physical body and has left it behind.

Every sdingle culture has it's ways and rituals to find Spirit. Whirling, drumming, chanting, candle or fire gazing... all work. So does ingesting peyote, mushrooms, LSD, MJ and other sacredd botanicals.

In other words, regardless of where you are or what is available to you, everybody has a way to transcend the "daily" reality and attain the Higher Plane.

Acid is just a whole lot quicker and easier than years of meditation, hours of whirling or snake handling, LOL.

Catholic priests and nuns in the Middle Ages used to beat themselves with whips, "flailing the flesh", to promote a state of sltered consciousness in which they could experience God.

I kew this chick who was a serious submissive. Her thing was having her boyfriend Master stick fishhooks thru her clit. I swear Im not lying. I actually witnessed this ritual. he stuck several hooks thru her clit, then another six or eight hooks thru each labia, then laced her cunt closed with a leather thong threaded thru the fish hooks.

Again, I swear on my son Im not kidding.

I asked her WTF???

She said that in her willingness to enfure severe pain, her mind would leave her body and she would be transformed, transcend to a plane above pain and physicality. In this space, she would "know God".

Now... MY personal experiements might have led to giving or receiving the occasional spanking, LOL....but sticking a fish hook thru ANY body part of mine is pretty much OFF the menu. All I know about this is what I actually saw and I can say with certainity that this chick seemed to be "above" pain or "outside" it or whatever, because she never made a sound nor a grimace. In fact, for several minutes after the guy had cut off the hooks and removed tmem, she seemed to be "gone". Not asleep...just Not There. I'll never forge that shit.

Id way rather take a hit of acid, personally.


CW


----------



## Charlie Who? (Jul 30, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah shame only YOU had that experience ....try convincing someone else that you had that experience ...........its like my friend reckons he was abducted by aliens .


Do you think that matters? If somebody else gets it?

trust me, I KNOW nobody will get MY realization of God by hearing about MY watermelon experience. That's irrelevent, completely.

That's the whole problem, really. NOBODY can share their own experience of God with anybody else. This phenom is described in the Bible by the story of Paul, who was "struck blind" by his vision of God on his walk to Damascus. he was able to TELL others about his experience....but nobody else was "struck bline" by HEARING Pauls experience.

This is how the "Gnostic Christians" came to be. (Gnostic" from the greek, "Gnosos", meaning, "knowlledge")They believe that EVERYBODY must have his OWN personal experience of God....and that no amount of study or reading or hearing other people's experience is worth shit. I tend to agree. For me, it was a watermelon rind. For Paul, it was being struck blind. But neither the people Paul told his story to, nor the people I have told mine to will be transformed/transcend by hearing the story.

The point is that anybody CAN have his/her moment of Transcendence at any moment---by any means. For many people. haviong their first child is transforming, spiritually. For others, falling in love is key. For others, coming very near to dying does it. The point is, something can happen at any given time, in any life, that changes that life, forever.

Yours just hasnt happened, yet.

CW


----------



## Charlie Who? (Jul 30, 2011)

vapedup said:


> My friend, I've read the. Bible 4 times, y so closed minded? And spirit and God are not the same, u are god, and spirit is everything, but I don't expect u to get that, being all close minded!


FWIW, I GET it that YOU get it. He doesnt get it and may never, LOL. But YOU do.

CW


----------



## Charlie Who? (Jul 30, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i am not closed minded infact ive took purer lsd than you ever have


well....you'd have to be over 50.

CW


----------



## olylifter420 (Jul 30, 2011)

ok smart ass, why or how were we selected to be put on this specific planet? why this solar system? Why this sun? Why was the sun the center of the solar system? Why is the sun the color it is, not something different? why were you not born hundreds if not thousands if not millions of years ago?? 

answer me that

i cant wait to see what you have to say





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> prove to me your imaginary friend (god) exists and i will prove he doesnt .............im a devout athiest to every god any human, has ever thought of .
> your god is evil , homophobic , and a disgusting mess when compared to modern day thining


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 30, 2011)

at charliewho ................never read so much nonsense in all my life lol a slice of watermelon is god ,? everything around us is god lol 

anyway i really cant be arsed to go into all that , if you have had a personal experience with God <sniggers> then that is fine just dont for one minuite expect anyone to believe you or take your word for it , and it still dosent prove anything to anybody .
just because you cant explain something dont assume a god has to be behind it , years ago people thought a lightening strike or a flood was an act of god .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 30, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> ok smart ass, why or how were we selected to be put on this specific planet? why this solar system? Why this sun? Why was the sun the center of the solar system? Why is the sun the color it is, not something different? why were you not born hundreds if not thousands if not millions of years ago??
> 
> answer me that
> 
> ...


 just because we mere humans cant explain everything , it still dosent give any evidence of a God .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 30, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> Do you think that matters? If somebody else gets it?
> 
> trust me, I KNOW nobody will get MY realization of God by hearing about MY watermelon experience. That's irrelevent, completely.
> 
> ...


 so if you were born on a isolated island away from any religious input , would you still put that experience down to a magical god ?


----------



## dbkick (Jul 30, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> prove to me your imaginary friend (god) exists and i will prove he doesnt .............im a devout athiest to every god any human, has ever thought of .
> your god is evil , homophobic , and a disgusting mess when compared to modern day thining


 So you suppose we're just billions and billions of years of random chemical reactions??Jesus, scratch that, you got a lot to say and it probably doesn't matter to me.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 30, 2011)

heres a couple of good videos on 'personal experience ..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sZTFhOiew4&feature=related


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 30, 2011)

dbkick said:


> So you suppose we're just billions and billions of years of random chemical reactions??Jesus, scratch that, you got a lot to say and it probably doesn't matter to me.


what youd sooner believe we were created 6000 years ago by a super human god lol


----------



## dbkick (Jul 30, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> what youd sooner believe we were created 6000 years ago by a super human god lol


 truely I haven't a clue, but when the spaceship comes I'm going to heaven!!!


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 30, 2011)

at charlie who ....................lol so everyone will get one of these personal experiences with this god of yours or is it only special people like you ? my mum has not gotten one yet and shes in her 80s 

i think your halucinating .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 30, 2011)

at olylifter420 ........our planet is the perfect distance from the sun for life there a billions of suns out there and the chances are other planets exist exactly the right distance away from there suns we just cant see them , humans arent smart enough yet .
Our sun is dieng out and will not last forever . 
the sun is the coulor it is to us because of the gasses etc all being burnt .
most of the planet was coverd in water , life came from the water ,its taken billions of years of evolution to get where we are today humans didnt just walk out of the water lol you need to do some research .
i dont really get what your asking , i learnt the answers to that in primary school .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 30, 2011)

heres a good video for you watch mr charlie who ..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKGtcVoBhBQ


----------



## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jul 31, 2011)

yea sure charlie whatever u say,to each his own.there is no proving to be done,and youre helpless to prove anything no matter how many rebutals you muster.


----------



## Farfenugen (Jul 31, 2011)

A person is basically intelligent, but put a bunch of them together in a room, and they all turn dumb. This is what religion is - a stupidity get-together. This is the Catholic Church, the Christian Right, the Jehova Witnesses, the Mormon Church, Hebrew Religion, the Jewish thing, even the Buddists and of course let's not forget the grand poobah of the nutbar convention, those whacky head-whackers the Muslims (the epitome of extremism). Most, if not all, believe in this, that and the other. And they're all fighting and bickering of what this, that and the other is, to the point of killing millions over many centuries, all in the name of some old bearded guy in sandals, who was probably just a burnt out hippie with schizofrenia. 

Then you have those other dingleberries, the ones who join cults and follow blindly the ramblings of a con man just looking to have sex and drive around in Bentleys. Or drink poison in some jungle or follow him up to an alien spaceship riding the coat-tails of a comet far out in space. Religion takes patience, but a lot of hatred and fear and leading the morons into the fire you'd need a charismatic bufoon with all the personality of a used car salesman to teach you the ways of humble righteousness, while he takes your hard earned paycheque and wheel chairs to fund his extravagant lifestyle of the rich and pervy. A fool will believe in anything if it's foolish enough and die for it. And the lowest common denominator is religion based on fear, a promise of an ever-lasting life where there is no hard labour or taxes or shitty wives denying you sex on Wednesday nights (this is where the Muslims are promised all them tasty virgins - chalk it up to horny young men who're not allowed to drink) all the while worshipping at the feet of a dude in a golden robe with a funny hat who lives with the other funny hats in a palace built on the sweat and toil of the foolish who paid for it all. Makes you want to start a religion yourself. 

So what is this god thing? Simply put, I am god. Me. I'm not your god or anyone else's, not even my own son's, though I'd like him to think that. Being my own god doesn't mean I can part waters or turn water into wine, I would like to. I am a free thinker, I have free will, I believe in a happy life filled with all sorts of endeavours, sillyness, sex and getting looped on goofy weed and perhaps at the end of it all, I'll go to some place, be that my back yard, a favourite fishing spot, my wife's nipple area, or an IHOP for a stack of mile high angle cakes with heavenly syrup. Who knows. I'd like to be able to go on, but I don't think it's going to be in some chocolate box scene where I'll lie down with a man-eating lion and hang out on the western slope of a grand canyon-like scape with David Koresh or a misguided desert wanderer named Moses. Nope, that whole bullshit experience is merely an attempt at providing an escape to the weary who've been duped or brainwashed into believing it. God - the god in the bible - is an invention by silly apes too lazy to climb a tree for a piece of fruit, so they came up with this notion in order to con the other silly apes into taking their word for it.

Uh oh, I'm a blasphemer and I'm going to hell and damnation. Bla bla ali bla bla


----------



## beardo (Jul 31, 2011)

Sativa has pretty weak debating and reasoning potential- must not have been particuarly gifted by God in that department
I thought he was supposed to be the great debator?


----------



## beardo (Jul 31, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> have you ever walked into a door and then had it spin back and twat you in the nose ,in a busy ,posh restaurant ? this is how beardo is feeling right now .





beardo said:


> Has anyone ever committed acts of blasphemy against a God you swear doesn't exist
> But had a nagging fear that he could exist and that he could know of the sins you have committed, that he might know of your envy and pride and penchant for deranged acts of homosexual bestiality. Knowledge that if he does exist he sees everything that you do and knows everything that you think- Knowing you are to be judged accordingly and that no wicked deed shall go unpunished, Knowing that all you have to do is accept God and live your life in his honor to be saved and that if you do not an eternity in hell is what awaits you?
> Has that fear and uncertainty caused you to devote your life to lashing out at people who have faith and find truth and peace in God and Religion
> That's how sativa is feeling right now.


All you have to do is open your heart to God and your life will improve, God bless I will pray for you


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

lol beardo the weirdo is back .............all you have to do is put down the fairy tale books and think for yourself , forget the religious indoctrination you sufferd at school , start over and think things through logicaly , once you except there is no god no heaven and no hell , you will honestly feel better about life , and live your life to the full as you know this is the only life you will be getting .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

beardo can you pray to your god and ask him to send me lots of good weed


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

beardo said:


> Sativa has pretty weak debating and reasoning potential- must not have been particuarly gifted by God in that department
> I thought he was supposed to be the great debator?


i think ive done quite well ive owned most responses quite easily , and no-one has yet to come up with one scrap of evidence that there god exists , i believe im winning the debate quite easily and you have defionately been owned , im suprised you still show your face around this thread .


----------



## beardo (Jul 31, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i think ive done quite well ive owned most responses quite easily , and no-one has yet to come up with one scrap of evidence that there god exists , i believe im winning the debate quite easily and you have defionately been owned , im suprised you still show your face around this thread .


Numerous examples of eveidence of God have been given in this thread. We have established the existance of God and offered proof. You have offered no proof or evidence to the contrary.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

beardo said:


> Numerous examples of eveidence of God have been given in this thread. We have established the existance of God and offered proof. You have offered no proof or evidence to the contrary.


wow such as ? you cant just make things up , we have all reads the thread dude .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

this guy is unreal ( beirdo /) hes claiming people have provved the existance of god , when its never ever in the history of debate been proven yet lmao hes smoking some good shit .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

i believe i have won


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

at charlie who ...............you know when you was trippin or whatever and you saw god or spoke to him or had that vision or whatever , if that instance had told you to kill all your familly and friends would you of believed it enough to do so ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

You can't prove god does not exist
When having a conversation with a religious person, you may often here the argument, "You can't prove god does not exist," and they are right. You also cannot prove that unicorns, leprechauns, hobbits, little green men from mars, or any super natural beings don't exist either. That does not mean it makes sense to believe in them.
A simple answer to this argument is "Does it makes sense to believe in something just because you can't prove it false?" If so then we should believe in anything super natural. Sadly, this is the position some people take. 
A more logical position is to examine the evidence and make a decision based on reasoning. Unfortunately, a lot of people are taught to believe a religion from a very young age and believe regardless of what makes sense. They grow up in an environment where not believing is just not even an option that occurs to them.
If you believe a religion, try applying the logic and reasoning you use in everyday life, and apply that to your religion. Does it make since that a man died and came back to life, does it makes sense that a desert nomad had some direct connection to a magic man in the sky. Or does it make more sense that these stories are manmade?
Actions are more important than belief


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

what no -one has anything intelligent to say ? i thought 85% of america swear by a god ? dont let one humble englishman destroy your beliefs , come up with something original and enlightning .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

is it fair to say ive won this debate


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

hope non of you good christian folk mind me blogging this thread , as i feel its valuable toools for all us athiests on how to deal with unrational christian people.


----------



## ru4r34l (Jul 31, 2011)

or maybe the irrational Christian people feel it better to pray for your soul in private.


----------



## T Finn (Jul 31, 2011)

I have faith that God exist. Prove to me I dont have faith. I believe in God and I dont feel the need to invite debate over it to reassure myself. Another fact you should considered is I would rather live my life as a Christian and be wrong than not, and be right.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

to t finn ...............firstly its you who has to prove that he exists not the other way around .you are the one claiming something exists not me .if you are happy to believe something without proving its correct then this discussion is over , you might aswell believe in the bogy man .
if you are scared of being wrong , shouldnt you obey all religion and all of the thousands of gods incase your wrong about them , or are you allready assuming that your god is the only one ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

T Finn said:


> I have faith that God exist. Prove to me I dont have faith. I believe in God and I dont feel the need to invite debate over it to reassure myself. Another fact you should considered is I would rather live my life as a Christian and be wrong than not, and be right.



define what you say is 'faith '


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

T Finn said:


> I have faith that God exist. Prove to me I dont have faith. I believe in God and I dont feel the need to invite debate over it to reassure myself. Another fact you should considered is I would rather live my life as a Christian and be wrong than not, and be right.


faith is exactly what you need as you have no proof or factual evidence , so you hang on the word 'faith '


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

i have faith that the bogey man exists , i have no evidence of him so i say that you need 'faith ' to believe in him


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

Next ? .........................


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

T Finn said:


> I have faith that God exist. Prove to me I dont have faith. I believe in God and I dont feel the need to invite debate over it to reassure myself. Another fact you should considered is I would rather live my life as a Christian and be wrong than not, and be right.


this is so funny you would rather live your life as a christian just incase it actualy exists , lol if i told you , that you have a disease but if you eat my shit it will cure you , i could imagine you sayin ,,'well fuck it , im gonna eat your shit just incase your right lol
what about all the other thousands of religions hadnt you better practice those just incase ?
lmao


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

pascals wager has been proven wrong so many times please google pascals wager


----------



## ru4r34l (Jul 31, 2011)

I think "ThE sAtIvA hIgH" is a little over the top, you will not get a good debate because you are very callous; unfortunately anyone with a hint of debating skills will surely not put up with your 1 sentence rebuttals.

Now to the subject at hand, Why do you not think there is a god?

regards,


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

because for as long as we humans can possibly track back , there has never been ONE SHREAD OF CREDIBAL EVIDENCE THAT A GOD EXISTS , if someone turned up tonight with a piece of evidence then i would re consider my position .
the reason you think i am short is because as an athiest i have heard every argument a million times and it becomes hard to remain , tollerent , when religious people use the same arguments over and over again and will not acknoweldge when they have been proven wrong on a point .
it gets boring .hearing the same old arguments over and over again .
regards,[/QUOTE]


----------



## direwolf71 (Jul 31, 2011)

Which religion is the "true" faith. There are so many to choose from. I think I will remain a free agent...Until I get cancer or old, then maybe. You know, when it's convienient for me. I work with 2 "Born Agains", biggest hypocrates you will ever meet. I've known a few Jahovahs too, they have got to be the worst.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

btw your lemon skunk could do with some advice from a god of ganja like me


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

nah actually man you doin a good job with your ladies . infact those are some bushy bitches you got there , i hope you reap what you sow


----------



## ru4r34l (Jul 31, 2011)

Trust me I understand your point very well, I was classically trained at Liberty University (Baptist under Jerry Falwell). I too have heard many arguments and had many debates with very smart people trained in ministry that all end badly for them, not because I am smart but because I am rationale (it helps to have studied many religions though).

You are very short; and like I said I can understand why.. but no need to go up and down someone after you have invited them into a debate, that is just not nice.

I hate to hijack the mojo in this thread but the question still stands, Why do you think there is no GOD?

regards,


----------



## ru4r34l (Jul 31, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> nah actually man you doin a good job with your ladies . infact those are some bushy bitches you got there , i hope you reap what you sow


Lemon Skunk is the shit, I hope I do get a good harvest, and I will always reap what I sow, only Christians get the 10 fold increase. 

Any advice you have that will make them ladies produce more, I am all ears. 

Just a note I do think you are handling your own quite well in this thread, I have almost finished catching up, good read.

regards,


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

because there is not one single scrap of evidence to support the existance of a god .

everything else in life i can justify with rational evidence yet when it comes down to the most important thing in life im told i need faith etc to believe in a god .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

yeah my mates have done the lemon skunk its nice , very nice , just not a massive yeilder


----------



## ru4r34l (Jul 31, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> because there is not one single scrap of evidence to support the existance of a god .
> 
> everything else in life i can justify with rational evidence yet when it comes down to the most important thing in life im told i need faith etc to believe in a god .


 your going to , see you there.



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> *yeah my mates have done the lemon skunk its nice , very nice , just not a massive yeilder *


Your right I do not think I will get more than 1oz to 2 oz per plant, but the taste is to die for.

regards,


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

i try to avoid anything with the name skunk as i allready know its gonna stink , i just cant grow really stinky plants in my situation , cheese is a deffo no no , i once grew blue cheese , 3 weeks into flower i arrived home and could smell her as soon as i put my key in the door , needless to say i had to chop her down lol , im saving for a place in the country .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

i reckon you will be happy wid a couple of ounces of lemon skunk lol i know i would be hmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## ru4r34l (Jul 31, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i try to avoid anything with the name skunk as i allready know its gonna stink , i just cant grow really stinky plants in my situation , cheese is a deffo no no , i once grew blue cheese , 3 weeks into flower i arrived home and could smell her as soon as i put my key in the door , needless to say i had to chop her down lol , im saving for a place in the country .


Actually the Lemon Skunk has been very mild, I usually can smell it on the top floor of the house but this grow has been taken care of buy a $20 bottle of ONA gel (thank GOD), cause I got nosey ass neighbours.

How ironic that these same neighbours try to invite me to church! I usually say no thanks Sundays are for bacon & eggs and smoking blunts. 




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i reckon you will be happy wid a couple of ounces of lemon skunk lol i know i would be hmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmm


Hell ya! I was in on a community grow of the same seeds and each plant gave about 3oz, I had the same Lemon Skunk smoke for almost 3 months straight and it was great every day, I am looking forward to those days again real soon.

regards,


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

i got special k on the go atm ,i allways grow 12/12 from seed so im just seeing how this strain performs , ive heard nothing but good things about this plant


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

anyway back to the point ................where are all you religious freaks at ?


----------



## ru4r34l (Jul 31, 2011)

How big do your ladies get when grown 12/12 from seed, I will be doing a very secret grow and I only have about 3' of overhead space.

regards,


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

it depends,they usually get about a foot/ a foot n half , but i only use cfls these days , when i was using a 250w hps my yeilds were better , im be well happy with an ounce per plant , its usually less , but i have a perpetual garden going so im allways medicated .

3 ft would just about do it but you would probally have to do some tying down , they stretch like fook on a 12 / 12 from seed .( you have to allow for pot and lights )


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

pot size is a massive factor in 12 / 12 from seed , i use party cups then transplant into pot noodle pots .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

pot noodle pots are perfect for me , it was like they were invented just for me lol


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

if you use big ass pots your plant will get a lot bigger .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

i dont feed anything untill about 4 weeks into flowering


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jul 31, 2011)

you are allways welcome to ask me anything in prvt messsage


----------



## beardo (Jul 31, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> You can't prove god does not exist
> When having a conversation with a religious person, you may often here the argument, "You can't prove god does not exist," and they are right. You also cannot prove that unicorns, leprechauns, hobbits, little green men from mars, or any super natural beings don't exist either. That does not mean it makes sense to believe in them.
> A simple answer to this argument is "Does it makes sense to believe in something just because you can't prove it false?" If so then we should believe in anything super natural. Sadly, this is the position some people take.
> A more logical position is to examine the evidence and make a decision based on reasoning. Unfortunately, a lot of people are taught to believe a religion from a very young age and believe regardless of what makes sense. They grow up in an environment where not believing is just not even an option that occurs to them.
> ...


Copy and Paste rules! 
Plagrisim make people seem smart.

TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. PRESUPPOSITIONALIST (I)
(1) If reason exists then God exists.
(2) Reason exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists. 

COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. FIRST CAUSE ARGUMENT (I)
(1) If I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
(2) I say the universe must have a cause.
(3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.
(4) Therefore, God exists. 
ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT


----------



## olylifter420 (Jul 31, 2011)

Wow, I thought you wanted to debate,!

Thats the best you can come up with, get out of here your gayness and stupidity!

I owned u!





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> just because we mere humans cant explain everything , it still dosent give any evidence of a God .


----------



## karri0n (Aug 1, 2011)

direwolf71 said:


> Which religion is the "true" faith.


The one that works the best for the person who lives by it


----------



## Marlboro47 (Aug 1, 2011)

Proof that God is real: 
God came to earth, and became the flesh of man through the Virgin Mary. 
Why he came in the flesh of man? To die for our sins(otherwise he could not die).
The holy bible is documented proof of Gods actions and words on earth.
There were many "Athiests"(anti-christs) before you, and they wouldn't of let this doctrine live if it was false because of their logical reasoning.

Edit- Now you can't prove he doesn't exist because then you'd have to prove that I don't exist.


----------



## karri0n (Aug 1, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> Atheism always (read my lips, ALWAYS) stems from this ME as Center of the Universe perspective. Ego. "IF there were a God, I would KNOW it. I dont know it, therefore, there IS NO GOD."


Considering the biological differences between people, difference in how people react to emotional stimuli, intelligence, and how people process information, have you stopped to consider that some people truly might not be able to feel the divine? Perhaps there are indeed people that no particular god connects with, due to the persons's lack of ability to make a spiritual connection with the divine. In this situation, it is logical to not be convinced of the existence of gods. It's true that human experience cannot be trusted scientifically, and the personal nature of spiritual experience mostly prevents(at least for now the collection of empirical evidence for various spiritual phenomena. The dismissal of the *possibility* of a od or spiritual phenomena, however is irrational. Nevertheless, as a Pagan, you should realize that the beliefs of atheists are just as valid and acceptable, and if that's the belief system that works for the person, then it is correct.



Charlie Who? said:


> Thus, the enduring respect for the Great Mother. Is it an accident that men spend their lives striving to get back IN to the Great Pussy from whence they came?
> 
> The "sex drive" is actually Man's attempt to re-unite with God, Herself. Fortunately, every Woman carries with her this Sacred Portal to the Goddess.
> 
> ...


If the desire for pussy is man's atempt at reconnection to the divine(represented by the Goddess in this case), then why do women crave dick? It would behoove you to remember that both ancient and modern paganism embraced a balance, the duality between male and female. The Mother Earth cannot create without the energy of Father Sun. The goddess provides the potential for creation, but the god provides the impetus, motivation, and drive. A spiritual practice which does not recognize the importance of both will lead to imbalance, and this can manifest both psychologically and spiritually. 



Charlie Who? said:


> In the beginning was/is The Mother. Early humans assumed That Which Creates Life must be Female. Our First God was The Great Mother.


Are you certain about that? In early cultures that we find "venus"(not the greek goddess, but pregnant, fertile earth mother)statues, we also find statues and evidence of phallus worship as well.

Nearly all cultures have a localized version of the Horned One, the lord of animals and the forest, which stem from the hunter/gatherer cultures of pre-agricultural times. Once cultures become agriculturally based, The worship switches over to a reverence for the earth mother and sky father. The defining characteristic in each of these is always balance.

I must say, it's quite refreshing to see a pagan in this section, and I also find it quite interesting that it appears you tend to identify with the divine feminine, while my worship tends to focus more on the divine masculine.



Charlie Who? said:


> Come on. Christianity was born of politics,. not spirituality.


 Early Christianity was born of rebellion against the current regime - the highly politicized religion of the Jewish.. It was shamanic and raw and quite based in spirituality, exceptionally so for the times.



Charlie Who? said:


> I dont give a rat's ass if you or anyone else decides to call himself an atheist. I mind hell out of the ignorence of believing the alternative is being a Christian. Trust me, there are any number of alternatives to Christianity. Before deciding there is No God, you might devote a bit of time to the study of the OTHER religions....Buddhism, Hinduism are a good start. (not to even mention Conducianism, Jainism, Taoism, the Soufs, et.etc.etc.) If those dont appeal, look into the Native American religions, the African religions, the Australian Aborigine beliefs, and if all those fail and you're a white guy of western European descent, you might just be a Pagan at heart.
> 
> That you even assume the two sides of the issue are Christianity and/or atheism
> as if NO other alternatives count reveals way too much ignorence on your part.. You're just yet another of the many who dont buy the Christian mythology and jump to the conclusion, "if that aint so, then there aint no god.".
> ...


 Well Said. This is the reason I post in this section. It's good to see someone who understands this.


----------



## Brazko (Aug 2, 2011)

beardo said:


> Copy and Paste rules!
> Plagrisim make people seem smart.


Yes, but there is a difference... lmao


----------



## Charlie Who? (Aug 3, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> at charlie who ....................lol so everyone will get one of these personal experiences with this god of yours or is it only special people like you ? my mum has not gotten one yet and shes in her 80s
> 
> i think your halucinating .


Nah. Everybody BUT you. And yer mom.


CW


----------



## Charlie Who? (Aug 3, 2011)

beardo said:


> Sativa has pretty weak debating and reasoning potential- must not have been particuarly gifted by God in that department
> I thought he was supposed to be the great debator?


You nailed it.

Like my dad used to say, "never argue with a fool. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing---wastes your time and annoys hell out of the pig."

CW


----------



## Charlie Who? (Aug 3, 2011)

karri0n said:


> Considering the biological differences between people, difference in how people react to emotional stimuli, intelligence, and how people process information, have you stopped to consider that some people truly might not be able to feel the divine? Perhaps there are indeed people that no particular god connects with, due to the persons's lack of ability to make a spiritual connection with the divine. In this situation, it is logical to not be convinced of the existence of gods. It's true that human experience cannot be trusted scientifically, and the personal nature of spiritual experience mostly prevents(at least for now the collection of empirical evidence for various spiritual phenomena. The dismissal of the *possibility* of a od or spiritual phenomena, however is irrational. Nevertheless, as a Pagan, you should realize that the beliefs of atheists are just as valid and acceptable, and if that's the belief system that works for the person, then it is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. Me, too.
I completely agree---I wasnt discounting the Male half. Not by any means! I was trying to introduce the concept of the Female half into this discussion where God has been consistantly referred to as "He". It seems easiest for folks to automatically use the "He/Him" and never even consider the possibility of a "She/Her".

Actually, I dont see why the Creator should have any gender at all. In fact, perhaps where people went wrong about God was in the assumption God is a Being. Perhaps God isnt a noun, but a Verb. God Happens. The manifestation of that Happenning is all of Nature and the physical (and non-physical) Universe. The Manifestor not a Being, but Consciousness, ITself.

CW






CW


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 3, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> You nailed it.
> 
> Like my dad used to say, "never argue with a fool. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing---wastes your time and annoys hell out of the pig."
> 
> CW


Yep, so much easier to dismiss a dissenter as a fool rather than give actual answers that will show the weakness in your argument. You are so typical of the religionist, instead of actual debate and defending your position, you resort to a simple ad hominem attack. Seems to me that you are acting the part of the pig in the parable.


----------



## karri0n (Aug 4, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Yep, so much easier to dismiss a dissenter as a fool rather than give actual answers that will show the weakness in your argument. You are so typical of the religionist, instead of actual debate and defending your position, you resort to a simple ad hominem attack. Seems to me that you are acting the part of the pig in the parable.


Disingenuous reply. Have you read any of ThE sAtIvA hIgH's posts in this thread? He's a moron or a troll or probably both.


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 4, 2011)

I have to agree, the OP has done a poor job at representing his side while simultaneously bragging about his unchallengeable debate skills. I had assumed that is why this is one atheist themed thread that the usual atheists have mostly stayed out of. I did not feel the need to support anything sativa said, despite agreeing with a lot of it. But I also remember a time when I was not so good at expressing what I wanted to say, and debating in forums helped me to get better. So I would encourage sativa to continue, but maybe consider dropping the attitude and putting some thought into why he may be right, instead of only focusing on why others are wrong. It doesn't matter which side of a debate you are on, if you use tricks and fall victim to the inherit pitfalls of argument, you are invalid.

Also as I've said before, debating is not a contest. The goal of debate is essentially to exchange ideas and gain a better understanding of another's perspective. If both sides begin at the same place on a subject, agree on terms and logic, then both sides should reach the same conclusions. By debating we can learn where opinions diverge and why; at no point should the goal of debate be to win.


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 4, 2011)

karri0n said:


> Disingenuous reply. Have you read any of ThE sAtIvA hIgH's posts in this thread? He's a moron or a troll or probably both.


Not disingenuous. Regardless of his attitude, no one actually engaged him to any great extent and I saw no problem with his ability to reason. Also, considering the two people criticizing him have demonstrated a lack of reasoning ability, I don't think it's as lopsided as you make it out to be. 

We've already discussed Beardo and his vagina argument. Now Charlie Who criticizes gnostic atheists because they think they 'know' something but then praises the gnostic Xians for their insight....????


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 4, 2011)

im still waiting for the OP's reply to my questions...







olylifter420 said:


> ok smart ass, why or how were we selected to be put on this specific planet? why this solar system? Why this sun? Why was the sun the center of the solar system? Why is the sun the color it is, not something different? why were you not born hundreds if not thousands if not millions of years ago??
> 
> answer me that
> 
> i cant wait to see what you have to say


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 4, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> im still waiting for the OP's reply to my questions...


Maybe he hasn't answered because you are assuming an answer in your question. Why do you think we were 'selected' for this planet and solar system? What does the color of the sun have to do with anything? Why weren't you born thousands of years in the future? Your questions are meaningless because they don't have any real answers unless you make certain assumptions. Why can't things be just the way they are because that's the way they are?


----------



## karri0n (Aug 4, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> Actually, I dont see why the Creator should have any gender at all. In fact, perhaps where people went wrong about God was in the assumption God is a Being. Perhaps God isnt a noun, but a Verb. God Happens. The manifestation of that Happenning is all of Nature and the physical (and non-physical) Universe. The Manifestor not a Being, but Consciousness, ITself.
> 
> CW
> 
> ...


Absolutely. I don't feel that a gender or a separation into genders is necessary, but when divinity IS split into genders(such as in the "goddess worship" aspects of some modern pagan beliefs, or the patriarchal focus of the Abrahamic religions), then both sides need to be acknowledged.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 5, 2011)

well you have your understanding and i have my own. I respect your understanding, but since the OP said he would answer and debate anyone, well i thought he would be wise enough to answer my questions...

it is what it is


why would they be assumptions? Scientists' have supposedly found the point where the universe began or originated...





mindphuk said:


> Maybe he hasn't answered because you are assuming an answer in your question. Why do you think we were 'selected' for this planet and solar system? What does the color of the sun have to do with anything? Why weren't you born thousands of years in the future? Your questions are meaningless because they don't have any real answers unless you make certain assumptions. Why can't things be just the way they are because that's the way they are?


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

ok smart ass, why or how were we selected to be put on this specific planet? 

You are assuming we were selected to be here, when it's possible we are here randomly for no particular reason.


why this solar system? Why this sun?

Why not? What do you see as special about this sun? There are estimated to be about 22 planets the same distance from their sun in the milky way alone. The evidence suggests that the conditions of our planet are not unique.

Why was the sun the center of the solar system? 

Because all solar systems have a sun? Our sun is nothing special or different.

Why is the sun the color it is, not something different? 

Because your eyes interpret it as that color. Explain why color matters? If our sun was pink, would you still be insinuating that it's special? If so, then it doesn't seem to matter which color it is. 

why were you not born hundreds if not thousands if not millions of years ago?? 

Because our parents had sex in recent times.


----------



## Farfenugen (Aug 5, 2011)

if god were really real he/she would be like some marijuana plants, a hermaphrodite but the balls would be way bigger and there'd be 4 boobies


----------



## karri0n (Aug 5, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Because your eyes interpret it as that color. Explain why color matters? If our sun was pink, would you still be insinuating that it's special? If so, then it doesn't seem to matter which color it is.


I know of a certain Kryptonian who would disagree with you.


----------



## Charlie Who? (Aug 5, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Yep, so much easier to dismiss a dissenter as a fool rather than give actual answers that will show the weakness in your argument. You are so typical of the religionist, instead of actual debate and defending your position, you resort to a simple ad hominem attack. Seems to me that you are acting the part of the pig in the parable.


Bullshit. Read my first reply.

This "debate" CANNOT be "won". There is NO "proof" for either position.

CW


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> Bullshit. Read my first reply.
> 
> This "debate" CANNOT be "won". There is NO "proof" for either position.
> 
> CW


The burden of proof falls to the party making the claim, otherwise we favor the null hypothesis. This is the standard which we apply to all reality. Your assertion that atheists need to provide proof to support being unconvinced by the theists argument is silly. If you are told a unicorn lives in the middle of the sun, and given no proof or any solid supporting evidence, are you now burdened with providing proof that the unicorn isn't there?

Your position that atheists have no proof and waste your time is a convenient excuse for avoiding the discomfort of thoughts which conflict with your belief, but is not grounded in logic.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." 
&#8212; Christopher Hitchens


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

only the person /persons claiming 'something', needs to prove its true .
one position is claiming they believe in a god that exists , the other position is saying they dont , believe in that god and dont believe it exists .
the burdon on proof has to be on the person claiming something to be true .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

why can not one person come up with one piece of evidence that a god exists ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> im still waiting for the OP's reply to my questions...




your questions are plain silly and even if i couldnt answer them , wich i have done and so has another person , it still does not prove your god exists , ...........its silly that you think if you could come up with a few questions that are hard to answer that it somehow justifys to you your beliefs are true .
my question to you is .......'what is it, that completey justifies to you that your beliefs are true , what is it that makes you think there is a god ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

i would have alot more respect for religious people if they held up there hands and said' look , im following this religion blindly , i know theres no evidence that the god exists , but im choising to follow the religion even though i know theres nothing to prove to me its real ' i would allso respect religion alot more if they left children out of it , why cant religion be a choice we take when we are 18 or 21 , why do school children have to be indoctrinated with religion ?...............my 7 year old daughter is coming home from school daily with storys from the bible , confused and somewhat disturbed by the storys , she asked me the other day , what happens if theres another great flood ? , i try to bite my tounge as i dont want my daughter to go back to school shouting 'its all bullshit' , she would probally get into trouble or be picked on by the other kids .


----------



## karri0n (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i would have alot more respect for religious people if they held up there hands and said' look , im following this religion blindly , i know theres no evidence that the god exists , but im choising to follow the religion even though i know theres nothing to prove to me its real ' i would allso respect religion alot more if they left children out of it , why cant religion be a choice we take when we are 18 or 21 , why do school children have to be indoctrinated with religion ?...............my 7 year old daughter is coming home from school daily with storys from the bible , confused and somewhat disturbed by the storys , she asked me the other day , what happens if theres another great flood ? , i try to bite my tounge as i dont want my daughter to go back to school shouting 'its all bullshit' , she would probally get into trouble or be picked on by the other kids .


Children learn better than adults. The sheer amount of mythology in existence would be quite difficult to absorb for an adult. This is the same reason we teach children math, literature, and science.


If your child is learning stories from the bible in school, and being taught it as fact rather than as mythology, then that's illegal and you should bring it up with the school. More than likely, they are not doing this. In fact, schools aren't allowed to be teaching stories from the bible at all, and teachers are usually liberal, so it's far more likely that you are making shit up to fit your point.

Perhaps it's a parent's job to teach their kids to tell the difference between facts and fables. Are you upset when your daughter comes home wondering what ever happened to babe the blue ox, or talking about George Washington cutting down a cherry tree? Or the fact that there was most likely never a real boy that cried wolf and then got eaten when the townspeople had enough of his shit? If your daughter went to school and said that her father told her that the story of the great flood didn't actually happen, and was just a story to try to teach a lesson, she would not get in trouble, and the teacher would most likely agree with her. That is unless, of course, you are sending your child to Catholic school, in which case you have no room to complain as that was your choice.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

Charlie Who? said:


> Thanks. Me, too.
> I completely agree---I wasnt discounting the Male half. Not by any means! I was trying to introduce the concept of the Female half into this discussion where God has been consistantly referred to as "He". It seems easiest for folks to automatically use the "He/Him" and never even consider the possibility of a "She/Her".
> 
> Actually, I dont see why the Creator should have any gender at all. In fact, perhaps where people went wrong about God was in the assumption God is a Being. Perhaps God isnt a noun, but a Verb. God Happens. The manifestation of that Happenning is all of Nature and the physical (and non-physical) Universe. The Manifestor not a Being, but Consciousness, ITself.
> ...



you chat a hella lot of poo poo


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

karri0n said:


> Children learn better than adults. The sheer amount of mythology in existence would be quite difficult to absorb for an adult. This is the same reason we teach children math, literature, and science.
> 
> 
> If your child is learning stories from the bible in school, and being taught it as fact rather than as mythology, then that's illegal and you should bring it up with the school. More than likely, they are not doing this. In fact, schools aren't allowed to be teaching stories from the bible at all, and teachers are usually liberal, so it's far more likely that you are making shit up to fit your point.
> ...




that is true, i figured out massive flaws in religion ,when i was sat , croos legged , hands together , eyes closed in assembly at 5 years old .so yes i do believe children figure things out quickly .

well i dont know every teacher i had at school was religious and would quote religious things in most classes .

george washington and blue ox dont get taught in English schools .

my daughter is in a normal primary school in england there is no such thing as a non religious school in England , all schools teach religious education ,( unless parents alienate there children and opt them out ) .
i think every school in britain sings songs of praise .
i was never given any choice in wether to listen to bible storys or sing songs of praise ,or say the lords prayer before dinner .


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 5, 2011)

how do i know what you are saying is true or not?

how do i know if you are a real person?

Then why werent we put on some other solar system with this supposed "goldie lox" zone?

yes, just like you use possible, then why is what i said not possible and only yours are possible?

you only try to find flaws in what i say when the same flaws can be said for what you are saying, just like everything that has been said on here.





Heisenberg said:


> ok smart ass, why or how were we selected to be put on this specific planet?
> 
> You are assuming we were selected to be here, when it's possible we are here randomly for no particular reason.
> 
> ...


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

you know what reallly makes me chuckle about this amazing thread , is that the dimwits commenting are more pissed off with the fact i claimed to be the best debator lol ' fuck it i dont want to think about my beliefs or wether my god exists , i just want this bastard to die cause he said he was a wizard at debating ' loooooooool funny shit .


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 5, 2011)

do you mean gandolf?




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you know what reallly makes me chuckle about this amazing thread , is that the dimwits commenting are more pissed off with the fact i claimed to be the best debator lol ' fuck it i dont want to think about my beliefs or wether my god exists , i just want this bastard to die cause he said he was a wizard at debating ' loooooooool funny shit .


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 5, 2011)

so you cant respond to those questions previously mentioned?





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you know what reallly makes me chuckle about this amazing thread , is that the dimwits commenting are more pissed off with the fact i claimed to be the best debator lol ' fuck it i dont want to think about my beliefs or wether my god exists , i just want this bastard to die cause he said he was a wizard at debating ' loooooooool funny shit .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> how do i know what you are saying is true or not?
> 
> how do i know if you are a real person?
> 
> ...



your questions are pointless ..............ok for arguments sake , let me say ' i dont know' for all your questions ..............what then ? you think if you come up with a question, i cant answer( wich i can easily btw ) you have somehow proved your beliefs are true ? you are still in the same position of believing something with no rational evidence .
you are yet to prove anything , you are clinging on a tiny belief that you can come up with a question that cant be answerd , and that will somehow cement your belief in something .
what is it to you that proves to yourself that your beliefs are true ? or do you just not care wether they are true por not ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

its like banging your head against a wall , debating wid christian folk , they have been indoctrinated since birth , its like telling a muslim suicide bomber 'you aint really gonna get virgins dude or everyone in your country would be dead right now ' he just dosent care about what you think , what has been tourted into his brain is stuck there , if only people would start again , scratch all the bullshit they have been orderd to believe , and think for themselves .
i honestly believe we are slowly getting there , in all my time of debating with religious folk on tinternet , ive only ever had one guy admit ( in prvt message ) that i had made him really think and reconsider his beliefs , but that is enougfh for me to carry on .i cant let the dirty religious belief system fester in our children its wicked and hatefull and human society should discard religious nonsense once and for all , i hope there is a world war 3 , i hope that humans get to the point where we have to have a massive war to start all over again without religion , i know lifes will be lost but i think its vital for humans to continue to exist .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

it seems to me we are again in a time when humans need instruction , to keep civil rest , last time it happend humans invented religion to calm the people , 'give them something to head towards' , now we are brighter and will no longer accept religious lies , the world is at a brewing point , religion is no longer holding things together , i dont know what the answer to the problems are , i just know people no longer accept religion as the saviour, its been promising to much for to long .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

i have to laugh at 'olly'shirt' lifters signiture .........it sounds like two gay men ..........ooooooooooooooh you rep me and i rep you back ............you show me your cock ill show you mine back lol


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

<<< sits back , hands folded behind head , lets see what nonsense they come up wid next lol


----------



## kbo ca (Aug 5, 2011)

sativa since you're an athiest... You bring me one person who has had their life changed for the better, one prostitute, gangster, murderer, adulterer, thief, any criminal. You show me one person that has turned their life around because of atheism. For every one you mention i'll show you 100 people such as these who have changed their life because of christianity and accepting the existence of God.


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 5, 2011)

For every 100 you show I'll show you 200 that have changed thier life around by following islam. Which is right?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxAOOip1nZ4 this is great btw


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

kbo ca said:


> sativa since you're an athiest... You bring me one person who has had their life changed for the better, one prostitute, gangster, murderer, adulterer, thief, any criminal. You show me one person that has turned their life around because of atheism. For every one you mention i'll show you 100 people such as these who have changed their life because of christianity and accepting the existence of God.


athiesm isnt a religion, a group, or cult, its not an organisation a gathering or anything else you are assuming , its simply a stance to a claim ..................when will you guys get the definition of athiesm ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

an athiest is someone who dosent believe in another persons claim , you could be an athiest towards the muslim god , its not a group of people like christianity its simply, a stance against the beliefs of someone , wether they are christian , zeus or the great ju ju up the mountain , i cant believe theres still people out there who simply dont get this lol


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 5, 2011)

I was raised christian. It was so easy! Didin't have a care in the world. Everything I ever did "bad" was always forgiven. Everything good was expected. Then there were times when I was forgiven but sure didn't feel forgiven. Then I realized no one has the answer! And the closest thing to god was myself. I have a hard time believing there is no god just as much as there is one. I am not one of the athiest's you seek kbo ca but thinking about it turned my life around.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

kbo ca please come back when you have at least questioned yourself( never mind other people )wether your beliefs are true .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

mexiblunt said:


> I was raised christian. It was so easy! Didin't have a care in the world. Everything I ever did "bad" was always forgiven. Everything good was expected. Then there were times when I was forgiven but sure didn't feel forgiven. Then I realized no one has the answer! And the closest thing to god was myself. I have a hard time believing there is no god just as much as there is one. I am not one of the athiest's you seek kbo ca but thinking about it turned my life around.


why is it you need to believe something is god , you now believe yourself is a god ? what is that all about ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

heres some satire .......................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNf3BfvxmBE&feature=relmfu


----------



## MJstudent (Aug 5, 2011)

kbo ca said:


> sativa since you're an athiest... You bring me one person who has had their life changed for the better, one prostitute, gangster, murderer, adulterer, thief, any criminal. You show me one person that has turned their life around because of atheism. For every one you mention i'll show you 100 people such as these who have changed their life because of christianity and accepting the existence of God.



how the fuck is some one suposed to turn their life around with atheism>? its not anything. like the sativa high said its not something you go to. and no god isnt real and if it is i can tell you its not what so calld "christians" belivve which has been changed to fit their new ideas and desires multiple times over the years.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

mj student has a free thinking brain . allah ak barrr


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> why is it you need to believe something is god , you now believe yourself is a god ? what is that all about ?


1. I didn't state my beliefs at all. 2. See 1. 3. See 1.

I do however believe we are the UNI-verse.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

mexiblunt said:


> 1. I didn't state my beliefs at all. 2. See 1. 3. See 1.
> 
> I do however believe we are the UNI-verse.


stop speaking in ridels , speak in clear english that we can all understand .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

i dont get your stance or anything you say please explain .


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i dont get your stance or anything you say please explain .


Sorry man I think the misunderstanding came when you though I was making one.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

mexiblunt said:


> Sorry man I think the misunderstanding came when you though I was making one.



yes , sorry


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

still dont get what it is you believe in though ?


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> still dont get what it is you believe in though ?


Shit dude you tell me? I believe if I knew, I'd be wrong.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

i think you were told to be a certain religion from the age of about 5 ? i believe you can not see a world without your religion ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

i really cannot believe that britain is being taken over by muslims , where are the true british people why are the british people so dorment when there world is being invaded by muslim s ?


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

dude it sounds like you wanna believe in sumthin...if there is no god why preach that bullshit....everyone submits to the creator willingly or unwillingly,try speaking with your ass and shitting out your mouth,oh you cant becuzz the creator didnt design u that way..plant mj seeds in ice..the creator didnt design mj to grow that way either..


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

black christians make me chuckle the most ,,,,,,the bible clearly states black peopl;e should be used as slaves it even goes as far as telling one how much he should be charged lol , how can any self respecting black man claim to be christian ? i would really like to freakin know ?


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

prove he doesnt exist an i will prove you wrong


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

omg a racist athiest..did u kno your god hitler was a FAG?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> dude it sounds like you wanna believe in sumthin...if there is no god why preach that bullshit....everyone submits to the creator willingly or unwillingly,try speaking with your ass and shitting out your mouth,oh you cant becuzz the creator didnt design u that way..plant mj seeds in ice..the creator didnt design mj to grow that way either..


 your outburst is nonsense , 'everyone submits to the creator' ........NO only you submit to your make believe creator I DONT ..............
TRY SPEAKING TO MY ASS LOL , ARE YOU FOR REAL ...OBVIOUSLEY NOT .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> prove he doesnt exist an i will prove you wrong



hush wid your nonsense , only someone , claiming they believe in something should prove it exists , we have gone over this a million times .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> omg a racist athiest..did u kno your god hitler was a FAG?



hey listen up , i will only say this once ......athiest dont believe in any of your gods ....................................hitler is not a god of mine athiesmn is just a stance on a claim that something exists , why do i feel so worn out ? 

hitler wasd a tewrrible person should we kill every man who has a simmilar mistache to hitler ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

what is the average iq of person answering this debate now ?


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i think you were told to be a certain religion from the age of about 5 ? i believe you can not see a world without your religion ?


 Naw man. My bad! I guess when I said I was raised christian I meant by christians(kinda the same thing). Seems you got me pegged all wrong.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

mexiblunt said:


> Naw man. My bad! I guess when I said I was raised christian I meant by christians(kinda the same thing). Seems you got me pegged all wrong.


well dont be so shy , we are all friends here , im sure you can explain what you be4lieve in , everyone has a stance ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

shyness will get you know where


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

dude you werent created?there are laws of nature/science...how did you get here u morphed outta thin air? oh no the big BANG.you are so smart you are stupid lol


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

only boring people get bored .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> dude you werent created?there are laws of nature/science...how did you get here u morphed outta thin air? oh no the big BANG.you are so smart you are stupid lol


repeat in common english so we all understand what you mean .......its a simple rule in my thread ty .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

nature ? science ? i dont get what you mean , please explain ? morphed out of thin air ??


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

kbo ca said:


> sativa since you're an athiest... You bring me one person who has had their life changed for the better, one prostitute, gangster, murderer, adulterer, thief, any criminal. You show me one person that has turned their life around because of atheism. For every one you mention i'll show you 100 people such as these who have changed their life because of christianity and accepting the existence of God.


Aside from your premise being false, you are arguing for final consequences. The myth of Santa Clause brings many people joy, yet we do not treat it as truth.




> *Appeal to consequences*, also known as argumentum ad consequentiam (Latin for "argument to the consequences"), is an argument that concludes a premise (typically a belief) to be either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences. This is based on an appeal to emotion and is a form of logical fallacy, since the desirability of a consequence does not address the truth value of the premise


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

heisenberg thinks like i want to write down


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

your mom musta been a hermie cuz you are sooo confused...


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

one thing i must insist on is threads make sense , you cant just jumble a few inteligent words together thinking that will fool the silly athiest it actually has to mean something .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> your mom musta been a hermie cuz you are sooo confused...


think for your self, think outside your silly, new testement, think for yourself , im sure you can come up with better insults than 'your mum ' jokes they are so 90s lol

even my mum dosent use your mum jokes anymore lol


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

im no professor of theology...just a pimple faced white kid with a laptop...its 2012 old fart this is common english


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> your mom musta been a hermie cuz you are sooo confused...


Is this really something you want to have said? You have a chance to represent your side and explain your position, and these are the words your brain came up with? Your brain told you that an attack on his mom and a suggestion that he is confused was the best route of expression? No doubt your mom must be proud.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

still dont get why christians cant prove there silly god exists lol ?


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

never read the new testament..u just sound so stupid..you were created so there must be a creator right? im using my own mind help me see what the hell you talking about?muslims taking over,black christians are slaves..you just sound like rush limbaugh after a bong hit


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

im sorry but christians have failed in this debate, i honestly cant see a reswponse that could justify christianity .


----------



## Toohighmf (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> come on christians fuckin debate if your so real it should be no problem .


Is this innate prattle of douchebaggery that I witness every time I come here a fluke? I'm starting to seriously doubt it. While I believe in evolution, and we can ALMOST prove it, people are entitled to their beliefs. Why are you such a shit stirrer? how old are you? 16? someone play you some angry music when you a baby? Your a tool. 
master debater...


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> never read the new testament..u just sound so stupid..you were created so there must be a creator right? im using my own mind help me see what the hell you talking about?muslims taking over,black christians are slaves..you just sound like rush limbaugh after a bong hit



nonsense 

i was not created so there must not be a creator right ? 
never in the history of england has so many muslims landed on its shaws .so i can only suggest we are infact being invaded and its certainly how most normal english people feel .we feel our customs and values are being taken over by muslims .
if you read your bible you will see that blacks are supposed to be used as slaves you will allso see how much yoiu can charge for a slave .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

Toohighmf said:


> Is this innate prattle of douchebaggery that I witness every time I come here a fluke? I'm starting to seriously doubt it. While I believe in evolution, and we can ALMOST prove it, people are entitled to their beliefs. Why are you such a shit stirrer? how old are you? 16? someone play you some angry music when you a baby? Your a tool.
> 
> no im 30 years old and i too believed the nonsense you do right now .
> you cant believe in evolution AND religion the two totaly contradict each other , you either believe in one or the other you cant merge like you religious people hope so .


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

@hiesenberg dude dont take it so personal im just buildin rapport with my new interesting friend..and please dont beat me up if i mispelled something.all im saying is you follow the rules of nature willingly or unwillingly so technically you submit to the creator of those rules...no matter how smart you guys think you are you still have to eat,sleep,breathe air...yal fucking grow plants how can you be so dumb?


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> still dont get why christians cant prove there silly god exists lol ?


Because faith is built into the belief system. True believers do not require evidence and proof, in fact many times the belief becomes stronger in the face of no answers. Proof is important to people like you and me, it is not important to everyone. Pointing out that Christians have no proof will gain you little ground until you demonstrate why proof is important. Most Christians would not give their infant an experimental drug that is only speculated to work. They would want the drug to pass a rigorous system of doubt and meet consistent standards; proof. In fact, virtually all religious people demand such standards in nearly every other aspect of their lives. The question really isn't why can't they provide proof, but why do they not care. Why do they exempt the claim of a deity from doubt?




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you know what reallly makes me chuckle about this amazing thread , is that the dimwits commenting are more pissed off with the fact i claimed to be the best debator lol ' fuck it i dont want to think about my beliefs or wether my god exists , i just want this bastard to die cause he said he was a wizard at debating ' loooooooool funny shit .


Perhaps you should take something from that. What is your goal when you debate? Do you hope to create doubt and open the door to critical thinking, or simply inflame and leave the opposition focused on the smug attitude and offensive language? Are you looking for self satisfaction or to actually gain ground against organized ignorance?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

why am i such a shit stirrer lol why cant you leave children alone at school ? why if your religion is so true why cant you leave it out of childrens lifes ? why cant you wait untill they are 21 to decide wether or not they believe in ancient mythology ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Because faith is built into the belief system. True believers do not require evidence and proof, in fact many times the belief becomes stronger in the face of no answers. Proof is important to people like you and me, it is not important to everyone. Pointing out that Christians have no proof will gain you little ground until you demonstrate why proof is important. Most Christians would not give their infant an experimental drug that is only speculated to work. They would want the drug to pass a rigorous system of doubt and meet consistent standards; proof. In fact, virtually all religious people demand such standards in nearly every other aspect of their lives. The question really isn't why can't they provide proof, but why do they not care. Why do they exempt the claim of a deity from doubt?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i cant give an inch to lies and bullshit , i feel its a duty , to protect children from religious belief and indoctrination , if religion left it, upto adults to choose what they believe, then i could stand back and except there choice, but whilst religion is being forced upon our children i feel the need to stand up against it .


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

so what muslim lands were invaded too..it aint fun when the rabbit got the gun eh?you were not created/concieved? alien maybe?


----------



## BillyBobJoe (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> why am i such a shit stirrer lol why cant you leave children alone at school ? why if your religion is so true why cant you leave it out of childrens lifes ? why cant you wait untill they are 21 to decide wether or not they believe in ancient mythology ?


So let me ask you, do you believe in aliens?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i cant give an inch to lies and bullshit , i feel its a duty , to protect children from religious belief and indoctrination , if religion left it, upto adults to choose what they believe, then i could stand back and except there choice, but whilst religion is being forced upon our children i feel the need to stand up against it .


yetall religious people will happily accept going to the doctors and excepting the latest drug to combat there illness ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> so what muslim lands were invaded too..it aint fun when the rabbit got the gun eh?you were not created/concieved? alien maybe?


i still have no idea what you are going on about


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

well the bible says blacks should be slaves..it also said jesus had hair like wool and skin of bronze...ok maybe he had a tan but explain the hair...sounds like jesus was black oh noooooo


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> you were created so there must be a creator right?


Your premise assumes the conclusion. It begs the question, how do you know you were created and not a result of random convergence? This is an example of very weak induction and presumptuous thinking, demonstrated again when you assume that by living in the world we play by the rules of who created it. I do not have answers of how the laws of the universe came to be, but neither do you. You have no justification for going from 'unexplained' to 'explained by a creator'. It is at best, wild speculation. I would not call you dumb for making spelling errors or using bad grammar, but I would question your intelligence if you are willing to base your life on a belief that you can't support, defend, or even explain.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

what ? do i believe another planet fluked it the same as earth ? yes of course the math proves there has to be other planets the same as ours ? i dont get what your askin ? if you want me to answre wether i believe aliens have visited earth then i would say no , given the best scientific evidence we have to date .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> well the bible says blacks should be slaves..it also said jesus had hair like wool and skin of bronze...ok maybe he had a tan but explain the hair...sounds like jesus was black oh noooooo



i dont give a shit what bible says quaran says something totally different .


----------



## BillyBobJoe (Aug 5, 2011)

Prove that your aliens exist dickwad


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

its no fun when the rabbit has the gun..when the hunter becomes the hunted...when the majority becomes the minority..when the president of the us is a black muslim..im sure all english dont fell like values are being lost because of imigrants...just you


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Because faith is built into the belief system. True believers do not require evidence and proof, in fact many times the belief becomes stronger in the face of no answers. Proof is important to people like you and me, it is not important to everyone. Pointing out that Christians have no proof will gain you little ground until you demonstrate why proof is important. Most Christians would not give their infant an experimental drug that is only speculated to work. They would want the drug to pass a rigorous system of doubt and meet consistent standards; proof. In fact, virtually all religious people demand such standards in nearly every other aspect of their lives. The question really isn't why can't they provide proof, but why do they not care. Why do they exempt the claim of a deity from doubt?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you really dont need to explain , i ask questions i allready know the answer too .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

who ? no one is proving anything


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

you guys type too fucking fast [email protected] i never stated my beliefs just cant understand your friends philosophy on how we came to be..say you gather all the ingredients to make a pie guess what you ccreated something you are thaat pies creator..the pie exsisted before you created it just in the form of multiple ingredients...correct me if im wrong..im as intellectual as u guys so pleez explain in layman terms


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> its no fun when the rabbit has the gun..when the hunter becomes the hunted...when the majority becomes the minority..when the president of the us is a black muslim..im sure all english dont fell like values are being lost because of imigrants...just you



befor you enter the debate can you pleae state your position on what or who you believe or dont believe in , it helps


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

you guys type too fucking fast [email protected] i never stated my beliefs just cant understand your friends philosophy on how we came to be..say you gather all the ingredients to make a pie guess what you ccreated something you are thaat pies creator..the pie exsisted before you created it just in the form of multiple ingredients...correct me if im wrong..im not as intellectual as u guys so pleez explain in layman terms


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> you guys type too fucking fast [email protected] i never stated my beliefs just cant understand your friends philosophy on how we came to be..say you gather all the ingredients to make a pie guess what you ccreated something you are thaat pies creator..the pie exsisted before you created it just in the form of multiple ingredients...correct me if im wrong..im as intellectual as u guys so pleez explain in layman terms


 your argumernt has been debunked all over youtube about 3 or 4 years ago .


----------



## BillyBobJoe (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> who ? no one is proving anything


You. Prove your aliens exist. Do you believe in good people and evil people? Which one are you? Why the fuck do give a shit so much about what people think? If your worried religion will influence your children than you better shelter them from the entire outside world. And really is believing life is more than just a meaningless occurance that bad? Life is short man. Too short to worry about things like this. Believe what you want and keep it to yourself or your no better than the people you are saying are so wrong.

I believe in life and thats enough for me.


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

why so you can attack that belief system with custom made hate propaganda?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

im so bored of this argument , when a religious person finds a scrap of evidence that there god exists wake me up , untill then im done with this , im bored of it ........................


----------



## Toohighmf (Aug 5, 2011)

I believe there is no god. I came from the sea. Jesus was a black jew.. as everyone in the region (AFRICA) was at the time. bye bye you little fucktard!


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

boring people get bored you said so yaself..and you started this thread u fucking cunt dont run becuz billybobjoe shut you down lol..flush your plant dumbass youre smokin nutes lol


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

Toohighmf said:


> I believe there is no god. I came from the sea. Jesus was a black jew.. as everyone in the region (AFRICA) was at the time. bye bye you little fucktard!



real inteligence ............real inteligence ...........this is why i cant be arsed anymore blind belief without ever thinking about what you are supposed to believe ....honestly , is it even worth debating against should we just let them believe the nonsense they are taught ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> boring people get bored you said so yaself..and you started this thread u fucking cunt dont run becuz billybobjoe shut you down lol..flush your plant dumbass youre smokin nutes lol


 dont be so hostile towards me, my friend ,, just prove to yourself what you believe is true then you should be fine ...................................what ..............wait ................you cant ....lol when your beliefs and dreams fall apart its easy to lash out and blame someone else .


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

youtube! never heard of it lets hear it from you..


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

BillyBobJoe said:


> You. Prove your aliens exist. Do you believe in good people and evil people? Which one are you? Why the fuck do give a shit so much about what people think? If your worried religion will influence your children than you better shelter them from the entire outside world. And really is believing life is more than just a meaningless occurance that bad? Life is short man. Too short to worry about things like this. Believe what you want and keep it to yourself or your no better than the people you are saying are so wrong.
> 
> I believe in life and thats enough for me.


life is only short to athiests , if you believe in the fairy tale then you have another eternal life after this one lol


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> you guys type too fucking fast [email protected] i never stated my beliefs just cant understand your friends philosophy on how we came to be..say you gather all the ingredients to make a pie guess what you ccreated something you are thaat pies creator..the pie exsisted before you created it just in the form of multiple ingredients...correct me if im wrong..im not as intellectual as u guys so pleez explain in layman terms


You are right, I am assuming your position because rather than take the chance to explain yourself, you offer offensive one liners and personal attacks. 

You are making a logical connection which doesn't exist. Assuming that we are the same as a pie. A pie, by definition has a creator. It is not valid to make the same assumption about life. If each life form is a recipe, evolution offers us a completely natural explanation for how that recipe came to be. There is no need, or reason to suggest, a supernatural explanation. Evolution is a well documented, well supported theory backed up by multiple fields of independent study, still it does not provide definitive answers. What is does provide is a direction for us to lean when trying to understand the complexity of reality. When our best minds looks at the big picture and consider all things, it seems random chance is the best explanation. When these people explain to us how they came to their conclusions, it makes sense and is supported by mounds of evidence and logic. When religious people explain their theory, it doesn't make any sense, have any support, and certainly isn't based in logic. Why then, when we have a big arrow pointing towards randomness, should we favor the idea of a deity?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman educate yourself my friend


----------



## BillyBobJoe (Aug 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> life is only short to athiests , if you believe in the fairy tale then you have another eternal life after this one lol


 
So apparently you dont believe in recarnation and that your gonna come back as a tick on monkeys asshole? Cause I think I could see that happening.


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

@hiesenberg because you sound a lil more insightful than the racist.....if we look around we see that all things-the sun,the moon,the stars,oceans,mountains obey a law,..the law of the creator...we find no disorder or chaosin them.everythingis in its right place.we seeperfect order and total harmony in the system of nature that the creator has created.the sun rises in the east and sets in the west and there is no exception to this rule.the moon and stars shine at night.night passes, a new day comes, and so the process goes on.flowers blossom and the trees have green leaves in the spring.everything has a set course that cannot be violated.simply because they were made to obey the creator.they have no choice but to obey.this is why we find eternal peace in the system of nature.but human beings are different.the creator has given us the knowledge and ability to choose between right and wrong,not only this..in case we forget he has sent us constant reminders by sending his prophets and books for our guidance....hey heisenberg am i confused or just young?


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

were all the so called prophets of old mad men?this whole universe cant possibly be randomness...there has to be a designer with a plan for mankind..look how well you articulate did we evolve from mokeys?why didnt they evolve too?the creator increased your knowledge and understanding so that you may seek,find,and obey him...i believe this life is a test of character


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

tick on a monkeys ass [email protected]!


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

BillyBobJoe said:


> If your worried religion will influence your children than you better shelter them from the entire outside world.


It's true, a child will have to deal with the ideas of religion to adjust to daily life, and indeed don't we want them to be exposed to all ideas and knowledge? A smart child is likely to stumble upon religious ideas on their own anyway. Ideally they will recognize bad ideas with time, if not at first. I don't think it's a tragedy unless the child is forced into religious dogma. When they are forced to worship and threatened with divine punishment and guilt, which of course is quite common. This isn't simply exposing a child to a belief and encouraging agreement, it's manipulating them into conformity and demanding compliance. Still, many atheists grew up with religious parents, and we seemed to turn out just fine. 




> And really is believing life is more than just a meaningless occurance that bad? Life is short man. Too short to worry about things like this. Believe what you want and keep it to yourself or your no better than the people you are saying are so wrong.


Do you suppose we disbelieving because it feels good? Should we judge all claims of reality based on the need for comfort during a short life? Clearly, religion invades many parts of the average Americans life, especially on the morning of 911. You said yourself any child would have to be completely sheltered from the outside world to avoid religion. With all the religious networks, services, news prints, websites, radio shows, and a church on every block saying religion is right, you have the nerve to ask that we just keep quiet if we think they are wrong?


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 5, 2011)

LOL.... you really are full of shit! Prove me wrong?

Also, explain why chinese have facial features different then us? 

Why were negros given black skin rather then white?

why were whites given white rather then black?

you are a stupid fuck who gives atheists' a bad name!

but, just the same way you think about us, I think about you!

you are a crock pot of shit and should not deserve to be here...

fuck you and fuck you mother for bringing you into this earth that God created for me and my fellow man





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i have to laugh at 'olly'shirt' lifters signiture .........it sounds like two gay men ..........ooooooooooooooh you rep me and i rep you back ............you show me your cock ill show you mine back lol


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 5, 2011)

find the quote asshole where it says that will prove God exists??

there is none, you are so full of yourself it is funny!!!!


you have not answered my questions and you let someone else who is smarter then you handle those tough questions!

you have no clue how to answer them

and you parents must of not liked or loved you very much and like i said, fuck your dumbass parents for bringing a piece of shit into this earth that God created for me and my fellow man





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> your questions are plain silly and even if i couldnt answer them , wich i have done and so has another person , it still does not prove your god exists , ...........its silly that you think if you could come up with a few questions that are hard to answer that it somehow justifys to you your beliefs are true .
> my question to you is .......'what is it, that completey justifies to you that your beliefs are true , what is it that makes you think there is a god ?


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 5, 2011)

that explains atheism!





Heisenberg said:


> It's true, a child will have to deal with the ideas of religion to adjust to daily life, and indeed don't we want them to be exposed to all ideas and knowledge? A smart child is likely to stumble upon religious ideas on their own anyway. Ideally they will recognize bad ideas with time, if not at first. I don't think it's a tragedy unless the child is forced into religious dogma. When they are forced to worship and threatened with divine punishment and guilt, which of course is quite common. This isn't simply exposing a child to a belief and encouraging agreement, it's manipulating them into conformity and demanding compliance. Still, many atheists grew up with religious parents, and we seemed to turn out just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 5, 2011)

@ the OP, you know that gay remark you said is totally stupid! It is a sign of gratitude and appreciation to my fellow RIU'er.. a jackass like you will not understand that cause you hate God...


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> that explains atheism!


Well oly, it would be just as wrong to prevent a child from worshiping as it would be to force him into it. A parent certainly has the right to strongly impress their beliefs, but not force, no matter if it's religion or atheism. I think most atheists, being reasonable people, would agree. Don't forget that knowing I am atheist does not tell you anything about my policies on child rearing. Forcing your opinion on anyone is wrong, but why do you assume atheists do this as a matter of everyday practice? Many religions tell you that if you do not worship, you will be punished. Do atheists talk about punishment for not agreeing? Many children are forced to recite prayers and to partake in rituals such as fasting. Do atheists have rituals or rites of worship to force onto children?


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> @hiesenberg because you sound a lil more insightful than the racist.....if we look around we see that all things-the sun,the moon,the stars,oceans,mountains obey a law,..the law of the creator...we find no disorder or chaosin them.everythingis in its right place.we seeperfect order and total harmony in the system of nature that the creator has created.the sun rises in the east and sets in the west and there is no exception to this rule.the moon and stars shine at night.night passes, a new day comes, and so the process goes on.flowers blossom and the trees have green leaves in the spring.everything has a set course that cannot be violated.simply because they were made to obey the creator.they have no choice but to obey.this is why we find eternal peace in the system of nature.but human beings are different.the creator has given us the knowledge and ability to choose between right and wrong,not only this..in case we forget he has sent us constant reminders by sending his prophets and books for our guidance....hey heisenberg am i confused or just young?


I have no opinion on your age. If you are confused, I think it is because you are not considering all of the angles, and do not have all the information. For example, do you know what evolution really says? It does not say we evolved from monkeys, which is why we still have monkeys around. Monkeys of course evolved too, just not in the exact same way we did. Many of the arguments I hear against evolution are pointing out things that evolution does not say. Technically, evolution makes no claims about how life came to exist, only about how it evolved to became so complex. If god is all powerful, he could have created the universe in such a way that it appears completely random. So evolution in no way disproves a creator. What is does do is provide us with an explanation which does not require a creator. Sure a creator could have created a random universe, but where is the reason to suppose this? Where is the justification for making the extra assumption of a god? There is nothing to point us in that direction which survives being subjected to rigorous doubt and standards of evidence. It is an unnecessary assumption which is not supported. 

The perfect harmony you speak of is indeed wondrous, I am amazed everyday, but lets keep it in perspective. How perfect is it? The vast majority of life has failed and become extinct. We have natural examples of destruction and entropy all around us. Everyday, everywhere we look, we are given examples of things in nature that just didn't work, on both a micro and macro level. When it comes to life, the complexity can be explained by an unimaginable period of time during which life engaged in trial and error. We have mountains of evidence of this trial and error and indeed it is ongoing today. The reason the human body seems to work so well is because of the countless billions of times when it didn't work. (such as babies born with lungs on the outside) Those expressions of humans didn't live to produce offspring, and so their trial became a failure. You are the living result of eons of successful tries.

As for why the universe obeys certain laws, we don't know. That is one thing science is trying to find out. But we must make sure we can be confident in out conclusions, and the scientific method is the best way humans have invented to assure this. There are many errors and mistakes inherit to the human condition, and we must be aware of these. Science is a systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results. Can you think of a better approach? In any case, science may not know why there are universal laws, but there is nothing to point us in the direction of a creator.


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

When you hear something about evolution that just seems ridiculous, you should research and see if evolution actually makes that claim; like the idea that man evolved from monkeys. Many times if you were to take these claims to an evolution scientist, they would say something like "of course not, that's ridiculous." Most arguments against evolution are grounded in confusion about what evolution really claims.


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

i like your response...you also acknowledge a creator of science and laws of nature..i wonder whats behind all of this...indeed randomness happens but this universe i think is too complex to be random?


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

So you are saying what points you in the direction of a creator is the complexity of reality. You cannot personally fathom how the universe came to be so harmonious unless there was intelligent design. If to you this is enough reason to believe then that is fine for you. For me I realize that just because I can not understand something, it dose not mean that it can't be understood. I try not to confuse unexplained with inexplicable. For me the fact that I can not personally imagine the mechanics of seeming perfection does not in any way suggest a creator. It simply isn't good enough evidence, or without error. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

And so we have come to the point where our opinions diverge, and identified why. This is the goal of debate, and it seems better accomplished with a humble attitude and understanding of the thirst for answers, rather than simply attacking and insulting those we think are wrong. Progress lies within the tact, Sativa, not the position. I recognize the justification for combating ignorance, but question whether inflammatory methods do anything to accomplish those goals. Neither of us managed to change anyone's mind, but only one of us managed to encourage critical thought.


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> i like your response...you also acknowledge a creator of science and laws of nature..i wonder whats behind all of this...indeed randomness happens but this universe i think is too complex to be random?


You are very confused. No one person created science. No one made laws of nature, they are here because of they way the universe was formed. There might be an infinite number of universes, each with a different set of laws that govern them. Some work to allow things like matter to exist, others may fail to produce anything. 

What Heis was trying to tell you is that assuming a conclusion of an intelligent creator in the question you ask is logically invalid, something called a fallacy. In court the opposing lawyer would object because of "leading." Like the old joke goes, "how often do you beat your wife?" is a leading question. 

Complexity in nature has natural explanations. You might not like them but they make testable predictions which tells us we are on the right track. There is no reason to assume an intelligent creator just because things seem complex. It is lazy thinking to say that things seem complex, therefore... god. There is no shame is saying "I don't know." God is a substitute for digging deep and trying to solve a difficult problem. If someone gave you a complex math problem and half way through you get stuck and can't answer it, giving an answer of "god" is invalid. It is just as invalid to say that god created the universe and everything in it. The puzzle is incomplete, we don't have the answers. Goddidit as an answer is just giving up.


----------



## billy4479 (Aug 5, 2011)

religion is a crazy thing.... I love the philosophy of God such a buetful idea ...but its get a little crazy first the idea that god looks like a man and not the universe its self yeah know .....than the thing that really scares me about the idea of god is the idea of heaven ..the talk about it having a gate to keep people out but is it to keep people in your soul will be stuck for-ever in "heaven" people never get to leave ...maybe it powers this god makes him stronger he cultivates souls here on earth untell there ready to be place in his battery of life than the devil get the bad souls bad souls on the bottom good souls on the top like positive and negative on battery ..weird take on it i know but the idea that god or devil might inpression my soul for eternity scares the hell out of me ..........how can the teach that to kids


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 5, 2011)

ok it seems u have a point however,if you dont have all the answers how can you so strongly disprove the exsistance of intelligent design/creator being or whatever you call it/ in my mind we /are all here as one human race to be custodians of the earth.why do our differences divide us but as soon as a plane hits a tower or sumthin we forget our differences and unite as people should?maybe there is a lesson in all this racism haterd and biggotry...we are all human created equally right?or just randomly selected cells and microbes


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> ok it seems u have a point however,if you dont have all the answers how can you so strongly disprove the exsistance of intelligent design/creator being or whatever you call it/ in my mind we /are all here as one human race to be custodians of the earth.why do our differences divide us but as soon as a plane hits a tower or sumthin we forget our differences and unite as people should?maybe there is a lesson in all this racism haterd and biggotry...we are all human created equally right?or just randomly selected cells and microbes


What I have been saying all along is that science does not disprove divine intelligence, it simply offers an explanation which does not require any. Science does not favor the explanation of a deity because there is no reason to, not because it's been disproved. If I tell you there is a unicorn in the center of the sun, there is no reason for you to believe me, even though you can't disprove my claim.

Isn't the planes hitting the towers an example of division among humans? Although it lead to a temporary political union in america, didn't it serve to separate us even further from certain parts of the world? Was not the motivation behind that day religion? You seem to be asking us to look at the big picture, humanity as a whole, and then only looking at a specific part of it.

All life, whether it was created or simply stumbled into existence, deserves to live without suffering. That is why racism and acts of bigotry are wrong. If we are just randomly selected cells and microbes, it doesn't change this fact. Hatred on the other hand, is a state of mind, a feeling, and I am not comfortable trying to control what someone is feeling. So hatred I will tolerate, but oppression I will not.


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 5, 2011)

marleyman5 said:


> ok it seems u have a point however,if you dont have all the answers how can you so strongly disprove the exsistance of intelligent design/creator being or whatever you call it/ in my mind we /are all here as one human race to be custodians of the earth.why do our differences divide us but as soon as a plane hits a tower or sumthin we forget our differences and unite as people should?maybe there is a lesson in all this racism haterd and biggotry...we are all human created equally right?or just randomly selected cells and microbes


No one has disproved the existence of an intelligent creator. No one has disproved the existence of an invisible dragon that lives in my garage either. A person first has to posit the existence of something before anyone even attempts to disprove it. The question should be why do you propose that some unseen/unseeable, super-intelligent being exists in the first place? Nothing complex in this universe ever came into existence suddenly, without any precursors. Everything we know of started from much simpler beginnings. Something intelligent that has the power to create all of this complex universe certainly needs an explanation too. It must have come from somewhere. It must have evolved from simpler beginnings like everything else, otherwise it it becomes the lazy man's answer like I said before. Why should anyone's assumptions start with something so complex that it defies explanation? Any answer that uses that assumption is meaningless because the assumption itself is unanswerable.

The differences that divide us are imaginary, things created by the human mind. It seems like religious beliefs are and have been the things that have divided us more so than anything else. As soon as people begin to understand that we are all connected through the same processes that made the stars in the sky and the dirt beneath our feet, we will have a much easier time getting along. The one thing that seems to ignore borders and nations is science. As much as they disagree on the details, the scientists in every country operate as an open-source community. We share our information with each other and continue to learn and build our collective knowledge. Scientists and atheists are generally the last people that want to go to war over anything. We are the ones that keep saying we only have one Earth and it's up to us, not as individual nations, but as humans, to work together to keep mankind safe and reach out to the stars as we know even the earth will not be here/habitable forever.


----------



## jdmcwestevo (Aug 5, 2011)

this is very deep stuff subbed let me smoke a blunt and i will put in my .02


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 6, 2011)

So bigotry is not when someone trashes and attempts to ridicule someone elses beliefs? If not what do you say that is?





Heisenberg said:


> What I have been saying all along is that science does not disprove divine intelligence, it simply offers an explanation which
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 6, 2011)

Isnt oppression driven by hatred and vice versa?





Heisenberg said:


> What I have been saying all along is that science does not disprove divine intelligence, it simply offers an explanation which does not require any. Science does not favor the explanation of a deity because there is no reason to, not because it's been disproved. If I tell you there is a unicorn in the center of the sun, there is no reason for you to believe me, even though you can't disprove my claim.
> 
> Isn't the planes hitting the towers an example of division among humans? Although it lead to a temporary political union in america, didn't it serve to separate us even further from certain parts of the world? Was not the motivation behind that day religion? You seem to be asking us to look at the big picture, humanity as a whole, and then only looking at a specific part of it.
> 
> All life, whether it was created or simply stumbled into existence, deserves to live without suffering. That is why racism and acts of bigotry are wrong. If we are just randomly selected cells and microbes, it doesn't change this fact. Hatred on the other hand, is a state of mind, a feeling, and I am not comfortable trying to control what someone is feeling. So hatred I will tolerate, but oppression I will not.


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 6, 2011)

Oppression can and often is fueled by hatred, but can be because of money, power, greed and ideology as well. The difference between hate and oppression is, one is a feeling and the other is acting on those feelings. 

I have four skunks that hang around outside at night. They destroy property, sprayed my cat, tare up my herb garden, ect. It's safe to say I hate these skunks. I can continue to hate them the rest of my life and it is harmless until I do something about it, like get a shotgun. If these skunks were people and I hated them but never did anything about it, should I be punished simply for my hate?

If a gay man is walking down the street and a group of people approach him and beat him up, taking his wallet, it is assault. If the same gay man is approached by the same group, beat up, and they leave his wallet and simply call him a faggot, it's is also assault. One crime is motivated by greed, the other hate. Are both acts equally as unjust? Should we add extra punishment for the hate crime? If we do, you are not only punishing people for the assault, but for how they feel inside. It is wrong to beat up any man, regardless of skin color or orientation, and regardless of the reasoning. 

Hate is often born from misunderstanding and fear, and should be combated with education and understanding. I hate the skunks outside, but when I put myself in their position, understand their place and why they do what they do, my hatred fades into tolerance.

I do not want to live in a world where peoples thoughts and feelings are policed and we are essentially forced to think happy thoughts all the time. I will not tolerate terrorism or oppression, but if someone feels hate, that is their prerogative.


----------



## karri0n (Aug 6, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no im 30 years old and i too believed the nonsense you do right now .
> you cant believe in evolution AND religion the two totaly contradict each other , you either believe in one or the other you cant merge like you religious people hope so .


Your ridiculous level of ignorance is showing yet again. Even within your tunnel vision view of the world that seems to think islam and christianity are the only two religions in existence, thre is no reason whatsoever that evolution and religion are mutually exclusive. You have consistently shown a lack of ability to understand even the definition of religion, never mind what its point is. This makes you unqualified to partake in a discussion regarding religion. 

Religion is not a means of describing the origin of speciation, nor is it a means of understanding the origin of life. Evolution is only a means of explaining why we have several different species of animals on the planet and is nothing more.


ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> im so bored of this argument , when a religious person finds a scrap of evidence that there god exists wake me up , untill then im done with this , im bored of it ........................


View attachment 1723578View attachment 1723579View attachment 1723580View attachment 1723581View attachment 1723582View attachment 1723583

If gods did not exist, people would not draw pictures of them.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 6, 2011)

yes, i agree, but what i dont understand is why most all atheists' on here want to bash someones beliefs if they are not doing it here, at home or in town. I take offense because that is all i see on here, 

atheists' complaining and wanting to tear someones beliefs down, when whoever their target audience here on RIU has never even said a word to that person about anything or forced them to become a religious type.

I respect you very Heis, but others on here i can say little about. 







Heisenberg said:


> Oppression can and often is fueled by hatred, but can be because of money, power, greed and ideology as well. The difference between hate and oppression is, one is a feeling and the other is acting on those feelings.
> 
> I have four skunks that hang around outside at night. They destroy property, sprayed my cat, tear up my herb garden, ect. It's safe to say I hate these skunks. I can continue to hate them the rest of my life and it is harmless until I do something about it, like get a shotgun. If these skunks were people and I hated them but never did anything about it, should I be punished simply for my hate?
> 
> ...


----------



## MJstudent (Aug 6, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> mj student has a free thinking brain . allah ak barrr


haha what? allah aak barrr?? lol


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 7, 2011)

karri0n said:


> Your ridiculous level of ignorance is showing yet again. Even within your tunnel vision view of the world that seems to think islam and christianity are the only two religions in existence, thre is no reason whatsoever that evolution and religion are mutually exclusive. You have consistently shown a lack of ability to understand even the definition of religion, never mind what its point is. This makes you unqualified to partake in a discussion regarding religion.
> 
> Religion is not a means of describing the origin of speciation, nor is it a means of understanding the origin of life. Evolution is only a means of explaining why we have several different species of animals on the planet and is nothing more.
> 
> ...


 lmfao my daughter draws pictures of the smurfs so i guess they are real to lol .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 7, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> @ the OP, you know that gay remark you said is totally stupid! It is a sign of gratitude and appreciation to my fellow RIU'er.. a jackass like you will not understand that cause you hate God...



there is no god to hate in my eyes , sunshine , ......................your starting to sound like an angry christian , frustrated cause you cant even prove to yourself never mind anyone else that your believing in something that is real .


----------



## Marlboro47 (Aug 7, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> there is no god to hate in my eyes , sunshine , ......................your starting to sound like an angry christian , frustrated cause you cant even prove to yourself never mind anyone else that your believing in something that is real .


 Easiest statement I can make to you, is you are not of God, to deny God. So you know the answer, you believe in God your just denying him. So there is no need for me to convince you that God is real, because we both know he is.

You start this debate denying that God exists "Prove to me God exists, and Ill prove he doesn't." Since we both know God exists your just trying to drag me into hell with you. Difference between us two is that since I don't deny God he won't deny me, since your denying God, he will tell you he never knew you on judgement day(when it comes time for mercy).


----------



## Farfenugen (Aug 7, 2011)

Any ideaology that promotes pain and punishment of an afterlife reprisal is nothing more that a fear-based system of subjugation and brain-washing, total bullshit made-up by greedy power-mad men who want to keep their power. And so they dupe the rest of the silly apes into believing in it by writing rules and regulations in a few books with lots of made-up stories because the silly apes need to believe in something. And it's still going on to this day, be they media, government or celebrities. 

_*You can lead a horse to water if he's thirsty enough*_


----------



## 0011StealTH (Aug 7, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> if no one can can cum up wid a legit argument for god in 24hrs its safe to say i win im more likely to be your god than jesus .


----------



## karri0n (Aug 7, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lmfao my daughter draws pictures of the smurfs so i guess they are real to lol .


It's not my fault if you can't figure out the definition of "exists"


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 7, 2011)

karri0n said:


> It's not my fault if you can't figure out the definition of "exists"



ok ill play along with you .............your god exists as a 'fictional' character, he can only be drawn by humans , theres no photos of him or any film .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 7, 2011)

farfenugen said:


> any ideaology that promotes pain and punishment of an afterlife reprisal is nothing more that a fear-based system of subjugation and brain-washing, total bullshit made-up by greedy power-mad men who want to keep their power. And so they dupe the rest of the silly apes into believing in it by writing rules and regulations in a few books with lots of made-up stories because the silly apes need to believe in something. And it's still going on to this day, be they media, government or celebrities.
> 
> _*you can lead a horse to water if he's thirsty enough*_



amen ..........................


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 7, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> yes, i agree, but what i dont understand is why most all atheists' on here want to bash someones beliefs if they are not doing it here, at home or in town. I take offense because that is all i see on here,
> 
> atheists' complaining and wanting to tear someones beliefs down, when whoever their target audience here on RIU has never even said a word to that person about anything or forced them to become a religious type.
> 
> I respect you very Heis, but others on here i can say little about.



try not to get so offended when someone bashes your beliefs ,why is it that religious folk seem to think they have this right , that people arent aloud to mock ,question ,laugh at etc etc there beliefs or religion ? 
yet they can build churches mosques and many other buildings all over the world , and expect everyone else to be ok about it .they indocrinate our children they pester us in our own homes theres signs and religious buildings are everywhere ,they tell people they will burn in hell for eternity if they dont believe the same thing as them , it should be non religious people who are offended .
someone makes fun of there religion or belief they cry lie a baby ?


----------



## karri0n (Aug 7, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ok ill play along with you .............your god exists as a 'fictional' character, he can only be drawn by humans , theres no photos of him or any film .


Gods are not physical entities. You can't take a picture of them.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 7, 2011)

karri0n said:


> Gods are not physical entities. You can't take a picture of them.


you are correct they only exist in your mind .


----------



## Thurgood jenkin$ (Aug 7, 2011)

God??? who?


----------



## kbo ca (Aug 7, 2011)

look around you folks... you think everything here was a lucky mistake. I think not. It's intellegent design. Some of you seem very smart. Here's an athiests beliefs;
In the beginning there was nothing,
and then nothing became nothing,
then all of this nothing came together,
then nothing exploded, creating planets,
then nothing became bacteria,
then millions of years passed and now we're here....
Legit right?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 7, 2011)

kbo ca said:


> look around you folks... you think everything here was a lucky mistake. I think not. It's intellegent design. Some of you seem very smart. Here's an athiests beliefs;
> In the beginning there was nothing,
> and then nothing became nothing,
> then all of this nothing came together,
> ...


 what utter nonsense .....i dont know of any athiest that thinks that ...................


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 7, 2011)

kbo ca said:


> look around you folks... you think everything here was a lucky mistake. I think not. It's intellegent design. Some of you seem very smart. Here's an athiests beliefs;
> In the beginning there was nothing,
> and then nothing became nothing,
> then all of this nothing came together,
> ...


let me clear something up an athiest does not claim to know how wherre when or why the universe is here , we are just simply stating we dont believe it was your God a few 1000 years ago that created it all .
i personally believe in the big bang theory and evolution as its the best scientific and rational evidence we have upto date .


----------



## mazand1982 (Aug 7, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i bet no fucker will debate with me cause they know deep down there belief is total nonsense .


haha whats there to be so mad about?lol...we can tell by your attitude your not a "debater" , your a angry person waiting for a yelling match, haha, and thats coming from an atheist....why would anyone wanna debate the existence of god when he doesnt exist? its obviously a made up story to scare the masses into doing the right thing in daily life thousands of years ago, kind of a do this or else youll go to hell type thing... with the leaps and bounds todays scientific community has made in carbon dating, astrological telescopes, microscopes and the FACTUAL evidence of evolution how could you even begin to begin a debate about the existence of "god"?.... lol, if your still a believer your a pathetic sheep and your whole life is consisted of following the rest of the herd, nuff said...now click on my signature and plus rep a muffucka, case closed,LOL


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 7, 2011)

kbo ca said:


> look around you folks... you think everything here was a lucky mistake. I think not. It's intellegent design. Some of you seem very smart. Here's an athiests beliefs;
> In the beginning there was nothing,
> and then nothing became nothing,
> then all of this nothing came together,
> ...


Reductio ad absurdum

This is an intolerable misrepresentation of an atheist view, and demonstrates that you do not even begin to understand the question atheism is an answer to. This would lead me to suspect that most atheists have thought about the issue of creation far more than you ever have, since you demonstrate such a basic fundamental misunderstanding. "nothing exploded, creating planets, then nothing became bacteria" is a meaningless jumble of words, not even a real conveyable idea. The statement was purposely designed to sound ridiculous, and is nothing more than a straw man. It's an absurd thing to say, and from that sheer absurdity you can either assume all atheists are idiots, or that the statement does not reflect the atheist's stance. I guess it's easier to just assume the more dismissible conclusion, especially if it makes you feel more justified in your beliefs. But pretty much any page of this thread should have cleared up what our stance is, had you bothered to look. This suggests a lazy mind which is willing to be critical of others, but not itself, also known as hypocritical.

The ironic thing is, we do not have to reduce or misrepresent the creationists argument for it to sound ridiculous and for it to be incompatible with every discovery science has ever made in support of evolution and the big bang. 



> The Heavens, Earth, and all life on Earth was created by direct acts of the Abrahamic God during a relatively short period, sometime between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago.


This is a young earth creationists view, which are the people who invented and promote the statement you cited.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 7, 2011)

lmai! you really are too stupid, hypocrite and a bigot!

Im sorry, but you win this "debate!" 

Oh wait, who has been answering everything for you? Heis, thats right!

If im an angry Christian, then you are a?

Angry high functioning retard!



QUOTE=ThE sAtIvA hIgH;6069561]there is no god to hate in my eyes , sunshine , ......................your starting to sound like an angry christian , frustrated 


cause you cant even prove to yourself never mind anyone else that your believing in something that is real .[/QUOTE]


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 7, 2011)

To be fair, Sativa never requested my help, and in fact subtlety suggested I keep quiet.



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you really dont need to explain , i ask questions i allready know the answer too .


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 7, 2011)

karri0n said:


> It's not my fault if you can't figure out the definition of "exists"


Quit trying to conflate the existence of the concept of a thing and the actual existence a thing. We all know the difference and you are now just playing word games.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 7, 2011)

Alright bro, well I guess you dont appreciate my respect for you.


I never said he requested help either.

He.cant answer things properly for himself so he relies on you to provide a better explanation.







Heisenberg said:


> To be fair, Sativa never requested my help, and in fact subtlety suggested I keep quiet.


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 7, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Alright bro, well I guess you dont appreciate my respect for you.
> 
> 
> I never said he requested help either.
> ...


No problem, I was simply trying for fair representation, and not trying to call you out or anything. You don't have to be so shy with me. You have demonstrated the willingness to put consideration not only into the opposing side, but your own side as well, which is more than most do. Although I feel you are still in error with your conclusion, I respect it much more. 

I'll spare the thread the repetition of my opinion on Sativa.


----------



## kbo ca (Aug 7, 2011)

I think that athiests are fighting with themselves to discredit God. It's a daily battle to fight what everyone knows deep down. Call me what you will, call my view on atheism what you will, but you fail to explain otherwise. The big bang theory is just as i explained it. But only time will tell. I know the hope and the peace that comes from having a relationship with God. I also know how screwed up the world is and how easy it is to not believe in God. But one day there will be no doubt. I hope that before that day God works in your life and you finally recieve his grace. I don't mean to offend although im sure this will. But hit me up when shit hits the fan and i'll be down to pray with you.. Respect


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 7, 2011)

kbo ca said:


> I think that athiests are fighting with themselves to discredit God. It's a daily battle to fight what everyone knows deep down. Call me what you will, call my view on atheism what you will, but you fail to explain otherwise. The big bang theory is just as i explained it. But only time will tell. I know the hope and the peace that comes from having a relationship with God. I also know how screwed up the world is and how easy it is to not believe in God. But one day there will be no doubt. I hope that before that day God works in your life and you finally recieve his grace. I don't mean to offend although im sure this will. But hit me up when shit hits the fan and i'll be down to pray with you.. Respect


sorry but there all asumptions that you are making , i love the way people like you try scaring people to believe the same as you lol im not scared though cause as ive said i dont believe what you do so your tactics are wasted .would be funny if what you say is true, and all along you had been worshipping the wrong god lol then youd be just as screwed as me lol


----------



## kbo ca (Aug 7, 2011)

I guess we'll see soon enough.


----------



## MJstudent (Aug 7, 2011)

i think we can agree yoouve won this battle against religion lol. but can anyone at least prove that thier religion is right and another is wrong?


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 7, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Alright bro, well I guess you dont appreciate my respect for you.
> 
> 
> I never said he requested help either.
> ...


To be fair, more than one person has responded to your questions. Not responding to those posts makes it appear you are flame baiting. Your questions don't have any relevance and you were asked to provide some. I asked you some questions in return that you aren't answering so attacking someone for not answering you is quite ironic.


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 7, 2011)

kbo ca said:


> I think that athiests are fighting with themselves to discredit God. It's a daily battle to fight what everyone knows deep down. Call me what you will, call my view on atheism what you will, but you fail to explain otherwise. The big bang theory is just as i explained it. But only time will tell. I know the hope and the peace that comes from having a relationship with God. I also know how screwed up the world is and how easy it is to not believe in God. But one day there will be no doubt. I hope that before that day God works in your life and you finally recieve his grace. I don't mean to offend although im sure this will. But hit me up when shit hits the fan and i'll be down to pray with you.. Respect


 You don't offend me but I think it's pretty ridiculous attitude to take to believe that other people are 'denying' something they don't believe exists. I agree with you on a point though, I think it is a perfectly natural, human thing to think there's something greater out there. I think that explains a lot of why there's so much resistance to stop believing in these myths, but I also know that the human mind is not naturally rational. It takes time and training to think like a skeptic and scientists. 

BTW, you do have the big bang theory all wrong. There is never nothing prior to the everything, the theory begins with an extremely small, dense and hot universe that suddenly expands. The theory makes no conclusions about how, when or why those initial starting conditions took place. It could have been there for eternity or it could have been produced by an event at a higher dimension, or something else that we haven't even considered yet. There is way much to much about our universe to think we know how it ultimately started, we don't even have any models that explain dark energy and dark matter yet. The big bang theory still makes sense in light of the existing evidence but there's still much to learn about what led up to that instance.


----------



## medicolas (Aug 7, 2011)

I hope you all have happy productive lives!


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 7, 2011)

i dont recall "debating" with you... please, repost your questions and i ll be happy to answer them the best i can... 




mindphuk said:


> To be fair, more than one person has responded to your questions. Not responding to those posts makes it appear you are flame baiting. Your questions don't have any relevance and you were asked to provide some. I asked you some questions in return that you aren't answering so attacking someone for not answering you is quite ironic.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 7, 2011)

Dude, it has been said by stephen hawkins or whatever...

he said it just like kbo ca said it, but in a more pontificating way...

he is obviously an atheist with what he said...





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> what utter nonsense .....i dont know of any athiest that thinks that ...................


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 7, 2011)

heis, so what do say about what stephen hawkins has said?

He said it just like kbo ca said it, so that clearly makes him an atheist right?

he says there is no God, so that qualifies him as an atheist correct?





Heisenberg said:


> Reductio ad absurdum
> 
> This is an intolerable misrepresentation of an atheist view, and demonstrates that you do not even begin to understand the question atheism is an answer to. This would lead me to suspect that most atheists have thought about the issue of creation far more than you ever have, since you demonstrate such a basic fundamental misunderstanding. "nothing exploded, creating planets, then nothing became bacteria" is a meaningless jumble of words, not even a real conveyable idea. The statement was purposely designed to sound ridiculous, and is nothing more than a straw man. It's an absurd thing to say, and from that sheer absurdity you can either assume all atheists are idiots, or that the statement does not reflect the atheist's stance. I guess it's easier to just assume the more dismissible conclusion, especially if it makes you feel more justified in your beliefs. But pretty much any page of this thread should have cleared up what our stance is, had you bothered to look. This suggests a lazy mind which is willing to be critical of others, but not itself, also known as hypocritical.
> 
> ...


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 7, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i dont recall "debating" with you... please, repost your questions and i ll be happy to answer them the best i can...


I'm sorry you missed them. Post 379

Here is it again:


Maybe he hasn't answered because you are assuming an answer in your question. Why do you think we were 'selected' for this planet and solar system? What does the color of the sun have to do with anything? Why weren't you born thousands of years in the future? Your questions are meaningless because they don't have any real answers unless you make certain assumptions. Why can't things be just the way they are because that's the way they are?


----------



## karri0n (Aug 7, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Quit trying to conflate the existence of the concept of a thing and the actual existence a thing. We all know the difference and you are now just playing word games.


It's common knowledge that the various different gods exist as concepts and archetypes; personifications that Man uses as a tool to relate to and understand the grand divine. Their ability to affect reality comes from the source that Man draws them from, but their individual characteristics and aspects that they rule over come from the characteristics Men attribute to them.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 7, 2011)

then it would be impossible to say it is the way it is because it is the way it is... that to is an assumption, so your question is meaningless to me as mine are meaningless to yours... 

I believe that God put all these things here for us to discover and find out more about what he has done for us... He has given things to expand our knowledge as a people and has given us science to better understand things through the scientific methods. 

there will always be people who will oppose God and people who accept God, why is totally up to that person and their preferences and what they choose to believe in. There is nothing that another person can tell you that will change what you believe in. I understand your skepticism and wish i could say something that would make you reconsider your position, but i respect what you believe in and as such wish you the best in your life. Your mind is made up and i doubt you will not keep your word especially to yourself. 





mindphuk said:


> I'm sorry you missed them. Post 379
> 
> Here is it again:
> 
> ...


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 7, 2011)

Also, then why has there been evidence about Australopithecus africanus and paranthopus robustus engaging in somewhat religious practices and ceremonial burials?


----------



## beardo (Aug 7, 2011)

55 pages and God still Rules!!!


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 7, 2011)

they to could have understood there is a higher power which created them, but lacked the mental function capacity to document it. 

also, how can you make so many assumptions when all the conquistadores that drove the incas, myans, aztecs and other Native Indian tribes to extinction burned 90% or more of all their documented work?




olylifter420 said:


> Also, then why has there been evidence about Australopithecus africanus and paranthopus robustus engaging in somewhat religious practices and ceremonial burials?


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

I guess no one wants to respond. Fair


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> they to could have understood there is a higher power which created them, but lacked the mental function capacity to document it.
> 
> also, how can you make so many assumptions when all the conquistadores that drove the incas, myans, aztecs and other Native Indian tribes to extinction burned 90% or more of all their documented work?


it was easy to explain the unexplained with a god or higher being , they used to think floods and lightning strikes were acts of gods lol
its funny how they didnt all come up with the same god though , and still today depending on what part of the planet you are from depends on what god you believe in , you cant surely believe theres a seperate god for each bit of land mass on the earth ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> I guess no one wants to respond. Fair


calm down , not everyone is glued to this forum 24 / 7


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

beardo said:


> 55 pages and God still Rules!!!


wich god are you on about ?


----------



## Beansly (Aug 8, 2011)

Quantum physics is proving that life after death is a reality and that it doesn't matter your beliefs or your god to get you there.
https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/454060-quantum-physics-proposes-life-after.html


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

Quantum physics gave rise the quantum leap show, we all know how true that was.







Beansly said:


> Quantum physics is proving that life after death is a reality and that it doesn't matter your beliefs or your god to get you there.
> https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/454060-quantum-physics-proposes-life-after.html


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

How does that explain anything? Thats just chibberish a 2nd grader can come up qith.

If that is all you can come up with, then I dont credit anything you say.





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> it was easy to explain the unexplained with a god or higher being , they used to think floods and lightning strikes were acts of gods lol
> its funny how they didnt all come up with the same god though , and still today depending on what part of the planet you are from depends on what god you believe in , you cant surely believe theres a seperate god for each bit of land mass on the earth ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

so what is it your saying cause humans used to believe in gods then they must exist ?
i dont credit anything you say , you are abusive and all you do is try to come up with rediculous questions thinking somehow if someone cant answer them then it makes your beliefs true . 
so what if neandethal man believed in a god ? wtf is your point ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> How does that explain anything? Thats just chibberish a 2nd grader can come up qith.
> 
> If that is all you can come up with, then I dont credit anything you say.


if you dont credit anything i say then dont come in my thread asking your 2nd grader questions , you've been owned on every post you posted, and have now resorted to following me around other threads, being insulting and trying to trick others into thinking you have somehow beaten me in debate in my own thread . 
this is the problem with debating people like you , once your futile questions have been answerd in a way wich doesnt match up with what you have been taught to believe , you turn to insulting or threatining hell on people .


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

No, that is what you said. what i am saying is that you question things and even the things that you side with, evolution, several hominid species engaged in religious practices. That shows that religion has been here since we have been evolving. Like i said before, you interpret it the way you want to, but the evidence is right there.

Even A. africanus, which was not the most intellectually gifted hominid, have the mind to believe in a higher power. Im not saying that they are dumb, on the contrary, they were very smart, but lacked cerebral adaptations to document what they believed in...





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so what is it your saying cause humans used to believe in gods then they must exist ?
> i dont credit anything you say , you are abusive and all you do is try to come up with rediculous questions thinking somehow if someone cant answer them then it makes your beliefs true .
> so what if neandethal man believed in a god ? wtf is your point ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> No, that is what you said. what i am saying is that you question things and even the things that you side with, evolution, several hominid species engaged in religious practices. That shows that religion has been here since we have been evolving. Like i said before, you interpret it the way you want to, but the evidence is right there.
> 
> Even A. africanus, which was not the most intellectually gifted hominid, have the mind to believe in a higher power. Im not saying that they are dumb, on the contrary, they were very smart, but lacked cerebral adaptations to document what they believed in...


yes its common knowledge that humans have allways believed in a higher being and have used them as a way to explain things they wernt able to do with science ,
but still no evidence that any god anyone has ever believed in is true .
the more we find out through science the easier it is to discredit higher beings or gods .


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> No, that is what you said. what i am saying is that you question things and even the things that you side with, evolution, several hominid species engaged in religious practices. That shows that religion has been here since we have been evolving. Like i said before, you interpret it the way you want to, but the evidence is right there.
> 
> Even A. africanus, which was not the most intellectually gifted hominid, have the mind to believe in a higher power. Im not saying that they are dumb, on the contrary, they were very smart, but lacked cerebral adaptations to document what they believed in...


Okay so you have a theory oly. You made a hypotheses and came up with some supporting evidence. The next step is to try to falsify your theory. Only by surviving attempts to be made false, can a claim be considered true. Essentially your claim is that because higher thinking individuals have always adapted deity worship into their culture, this suggests there is some truth to it. So to falsify, can you think of any beliefs which have been around for a substantial amount of time which we know to be untrue? Doesn't the old fallback, Santa Clause, qualify as such? People have believed in Santa for a very very long time, and the belief transcends culture and geographic location. Even if at one time there was indeed a sort of Santa Clause, does that fact give any more weight to what we believe today? If people believed in Santa from the beginning of time, would it make him any more real? We know there is no Santa, hes a myth, and that is exactly what we call unproven beliefs that were shared by our ancestors, myths. So really, what does your research prove except that the belief in god has been around for a long time? It is OK to make the assumption you did, but as you see, your assumption does not survive falsification. The responsible thing to do is abandon the theory. Unfortunately when we are talking about objective evidence, you do not have the luxury of interpreting it as you see fit.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

So who is the one doing all the name calling?







> come on christians fuckin debate if your so real it should be no problem .





> i bet no fucker will debate with me cause they know deep down there belief is total nonsense .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> So who is the one doing all the name calling?


 lol there is no name calling in those two quotes lol 

*
'come on christians fuckin debate if your so real it should be no problem '. 


'i bet no fucker will debate with me cause they know deep down there belief is total nonsense' . 


*


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Lets MassDebate.. as a matter of fact have you seen that thread about your fav porn stars? thats the best thread to MassDebate in... i just got done MassDebating so hard to thoes midget pics.. so whats the topic were massdebating to in here.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

in a sense you are negating evolution because of the fact that such things cannot stand falsification, therefore since these hominids had these rituals or beliefs in a higher power which you claim is not true, they too would not believe in evolution and would not be considered a part of evolution due to their beliefs.

you want falsification, here is one for you...

you say that you will stand by science not matter what, you wholeheartedly follow all of einsteins laws and theories he proposed. You must know of the theory of relativity? WEll it is being disproven by a 12 year old boy.

what is that to say about the rest of the theories and laws out there? That they may not hold true when put under the right tests and done by the right mind. So, the same thing that you say about my religion and beliefs, the same can be said about all of the your beliefs in these theories and laws that you and countless others follow. 





Heisenberg said:


> Okay so you have a theory oly. You made a hypotheses and came up with some supporting evidence. The next step is to try to falsify your theory. Only by surviving attempts to be made false, can a claim be considered true. Essentially your claim is that because higher thinking individuals have always adapted deity worship into their culture, this suggests there is some truth to it. So to falsify, can you think of any beliefs which have been around for a substantial amount of time which we know to be untrue? Doesn't the old fallback, Santa Clause, qualify as such? People have believed in Santa for a very very long time, and the belief transcends culture and geographic location. Even if at one time there was indeed a sort of Santa Clause, does that fact give any more weight to what we believe today? If people believed in Santa from the beginning of time, would it make him any more real? We know there is no Santa, hes a myth, and that is exactly what we call unproven beliefs that were shared by our ancestors, myths. So really, what does your research prove except that the belief in god has been around for a long time? It is OK to make the assumption you did, but as you see, your assumption does not survive falsification. The responsible thing to do is abandon the theory. Unfortunately when we are talking about objective evidence, you do not have the luxury of interpreting it as you see fit.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

ah ha, i get it, you are trying to say masturbate, but with massdebate, lol!





RawBudzski said:


> Lets MassDebate.. as a matter of fact have you seen that thread about your fav porn stars? thats the best thread to MassDebate in... i just got done MassDebating so hard to thoes midget pics.. so whats the topic were massdebating to in here.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

@ olylifter420 science dosent claim to absolutely know everything for certain , a theory is the best explanation we can come up with at this present time and can be proven wrong in the future .
religion claims to allready have the answers by using a god for everything , wich is constantly being proven wrong .
religion is coming up with no new evidence for its claims , science theorys are allways being tested and new evidence supporting or not is allways being discoverd .


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

you said it yourself, so what you believe is false too... cause it can be proven wrong as well... therefore, i see no reason why you question religion or religious people about what they choose to believe in...





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> @ olylifter420 science dosent claim to absolutely know everything for certain , a theory is the best explanation we can come up with at this present time and can be proven wrong in the future .
> religion claims to allready have the answers by using a god for everything , wich is constantly being proven wrong .
> religion is coming up with no new evidence for its claims , science theorys are allways being tested and new evidence supporting or not is allways being discoverd .


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Science has more fact than religion does.. any religion.. Except maybe Scientology ! that was a joke.. but still SCIENCE Beliefs out weight Religious beliefs Every Day of the Year.. Yes EVERYONE wants to be equal and have an Equal Say.. but the FACT IS.. HUMANS ARE NOT EQUAL.. some are more intelligent than others, and thoes who are intelligent seem to be on the scientific/archeology/historic/astrology side.. its the Tribal Closed minded ppl who stick to their religions for whatever truth they may seek..


olylifter420 said:


> you said it yourself, so what you believe is false too... cause it can be proven wrong as well... therefore, i see no reason why you question religion or religious people about what they choose to believe in...


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

find a quote where i said that science proves every single thing on earth? please





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> @ olylifter420 science dosent claim to absolutely know everything for certain , a theory is the best explanation we can come up with at this present time and can be proven wrong in the future .
> religion claims to allready have the answers by using a god for everything , wich is constantly being proven wrong .
> religion is coming up with no new evidence for its claims , science theorys are allways being tested and new evidence supporting or not is allways being discoverd .


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

so you are saying that my professor who is a wholehearted Christian and holds double ph.d's in anthropology and paleontology is a dumbass for believing in God as the Creator and science as the engine to discovery and intelligence?

goes to show who really is on the tribal side.... i believe you need to reconsider your statement...

find me a quote where i said the religion has surmounting evidence over science? please, i will wait





RawBudzski said:


> Science has more fact than religion does.. any religion.. Except maybe Scientology ! that was a joke.. but still SCIENCE Beliefs out weight Religious beliefs Every Day of the Year.. Yes EVERYONE wants to be equal and have an Equal Say.. but the FACT IS.. HUMANS ARE NOT EQUAL.. some are more intelligent than others, and thoes who are intelligent seem to be on the scientific/archeology/historic/astrology side.. its the Tribal Closed minded ppl who stick to their religions for whatever truth they may seek..


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> find a quote where i said that science proves every single thing on earth? please


gosh your hard work lol theres no evidence for religion , but lots of evidence for a scientific theory , even though evidence can change its the best we have at present .
so any normal person would look at religion and see there is no evidence whatsoever to support it so would find it very hard to believe .
yet they would look at say the theory of gravity and see all the evidence for it and be more inclined to believe in the theory , but knowing that a theory is not absolute solid proof of something .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

*'So, the same thing that you say about my religion and beliefs, the same can be said about all of the your beliefs in these theories and laws that you and countless others follow' 

thats what you said , and im saying no you are wrong , the reason we can say that about your beliefs is that you have absolutely no evidence for your beliefs , but the scientific theorys are full of evidence .

if you can come up with evidence against say the theory of gravity , then you have right to prove your evidence and question the theory , just like athiests do against religion .
*


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

No. I understand MANY scientists believe in god.. many educated people believe.. but you have to look at this as a WHOLE.. religion as a WHOLE vs the other side as a WHOLE.. religion has more flaws and wrong paths/ brainwashing at a much greater rate than someone researching the truth for themselves with whatever facts or Theories are available. I never said what you said.. Im just pointing out that science can help ones understanding of the world alot better than a strict diet of religion will. Regardless of what it means to that person, on an educational basis comparing knowledge.. learning strictly about science has alot more to offer than learning strictly about religion.. Yes Some People can choose both equally but thats not the Case around the world.. Its moreso ONE or the Other. which people put their faith and base their decisions.


olylifter420 said:


> so you are saying that my professor who is a wholehearted Christian and holds double ph.d's in anthropology and paleontology is a dumbass for believing in God as the Creator and science as the engine to discovery and intelligence?
> 
> goes to show who really is on the tribal side.... i believe you need to reconsider your statement...
> 
> find me a quote where i said the religion has surmounting evidence over science? please, i will wait


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

you fail to see what i have shared with budzki... why? 


there is no evidence for religion? are you serious? so you are discrediting all the artifacts that have been found over in Israel and Jerusalem, the 2-3000 year old bible that has yet to be uncoded... the scrolls of the dead seas that have been found...

there is some evidence, but like i said before, i never said religion has surmounting evidence, but it does have evidence... you choose not to consider those artifacts because you do not believe in God in the first place... 


and any NORMAL person would look at BOTH sides of the argument and what we have shared here today and say, both sides have flaws, but i choose to respect both sides equally because of the fact that laws and theories can be proven wrong and that science has not proven or disproven God and His existence... 





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> gosh your hard work lol theres no evidence for religion , but lots of evidence for a scientific theory , even though evidence can change its the best we have at present .
> so any normal person would look at religion and see there is no evidence whatsoever to support it so would find it very hard to believe .
> yet they would look at say the theory of gravity and see all the evidence for it and be more inclined to believe in the theory , but knowing that a theory is not absolute solid proof of something .


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

The bible was written and changed over the years by MAN.. Religious Artifacts DONT PROVE RELIGION, they might prove THAT PARTICULAR RELIGION EXISTS, but HAS NOTHING TODO WITH PROVING THE LEGITIMACY of that RELIGION.. Example EVERY RELIGION has its STORIES, ARTIFACTS, "Books" ALL of that is MAN MADE and does not prove in a higher power.. only proves they BELIEVED in one.


olylifter420 said:


> you fail to see what i have shared with budzki... why?
> 
> 
> there is no evidence for religion? are you serious? so you are discrediting all the artifacts that have been found over in Israel and Jerusalem, the 2-3000 year old bible that has yet to be uncoded... the scrolls of the dead seas that have been found...
> ...


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

well, because of your WHOLE view of things, you think that everyone who is religious is a bad person and should be dead or change their beliefs.

what about alchemy? Do you not remember the time period where alchemy worked hand in hand with the catholic church in an attempt to make gold out of any metal?

alchemy for a period did not accept any other form of chemistry work, thus alchemy was a sort of religion as well... 






RawBudzski said:


> No. I understand MANY scientists believe in god.. many educated people believe.. but you have to look at this as a WHOLE.. religion as a WHOLE vs the other side as a WHOLE.. religion has more flaws and wrong paths/ brainwashing at a much greater rate than someone researching the truth for themselves with whatever facts or Theories are available. I never said what you said.. Im just pointing out that science can help ones understanding of the world alot better than a strict diet of religion will. Regardless of what it means to that person, on an educational basis comparing knowledge.. learning strictly about science has alot more to offer than learning strictly about religion.. Yes Some People can choose both equally but thats not the Case around the world.. Its moreso ONE or the Other. which people put their faith and base their decisions.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

what i meant to say there is no evidence to prove religious beliefs are true and that gods exist , of course there is evidence that religion exists i can see a church from my house lol


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Remember their can be a God regardless of religion.. If your God is fact, exists.. Is the christian god and backs up the religion, than your Same Christian god is the next athiests god too.. Its when RELIGIONS put a LABEL on their GOD to back that particular religion, thats where you lose the intelligent ppl in the convo.. Like their are HUNDREDS OF RELIGIONS.. why or HOW could 1 group of ppl gotten it right.. Religion seem to be more of an anti-depressant for weaker minds than to be taken literally..


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

@ olylifter can i ask you a question now please , you have been asking so many in my thread .

what is it that makes you personaly believe in the god you believein? , why did you choose that god and not another ?


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

science always changes as well... i dont see why you bring this up... the field related to evolution has always been changing and many opinions have been shared throughout the past century and a half... the piltdown man(please, dont google, you should know about it) is a great example.. it shows how easily the field of science can be manipulated and make others change their beliefs in the work they have been doing for years... 


God put all these things for us to discover, why cant you understand that?

i understand your point of view, but you fail to understand mine just because science has nothing to say about it, even though it does...





RawBudzski said:


> The bible was written and changed over the years by MAN.. Religious Artifacts DONT PROVE RELIGION, they might prove THAT PARTICULAR RELIGION EXISTS, but HAS NOTHING TODO WITH PROVING THE LEGITIMACY of that RELIGION.. Example EVERY RELIGION has its STORIES, ARTIFACTS, "Books" ALL of that is MAN MADE and does not prove in a higher power.. only proves they BELIEVED in one.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

you say I think everyone who is religious? I believe in god.. but I respectively KNOW that thoes who CHOOSE a PARTICULAR religion for whatever reason may be Brainwashed some way shape or form.. Any religion that excludes itself from being equal to the rest of the people on this planet and or their religions is simply confused.. So if your a CHRISTIAN and think you have a DIFFERENT GOD than a muslim or your GOD and ALLAH cannot be one in the same.. i think thats you being closed minded.


olylifter420 said:


> well, because of your WHOLE view of things, you think that everyone who is religious is a bad person and should be dead or change their beliefs.
> 
> what about alchemy? Do you not remember the time period where alchemy worked hand in hand with the catholic church in an attempt to make gold out of any metal?
> 
> alchemy for a period did not accept any other form of chemistry work, thus alchemy was a sort of religion as well...


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Religion aside , I belive in god. I know all this is not out of chance and I dont give Man kind this much credit to have gotten this far.. But I know that when Man kind tries to take that relationship with God leterally like they can speak to him, and he will help you find your keys.. and that hes watching over you and not this other group of ppl.. Trust me, the cosmos is too big for 1 Race, religion of ppl to know it all or even UNDERSTAND the bigger picture.. so Believing in god is one thing, Using a religion as PROOF your god exists & theirs does not just sounds weak minded does it not. ? Religion gives its own reasons to be hated. Wars, crusades, honor killing, arranged marriages... Humans stopped thinking for themselves and started thinking how others prefer.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

Are you serious? It is a matter of geographical and personal up bringing... I believe in God because nothing can come out of nothing... In my mind that does not fit... stephen hawkins said it himself, "in the beginning there was nothing and this nothing came into itself and exploded, creating what is now the universe" in his computer voice...


If nothing can come from nothing, then just by looking at a point on the wall, you can create a mural of yourself or a painting of a woman, or whatever you want because this nothing will create anything. it created the universe, why cant this space of nothing on your wall create something out of it?

God put all these great things for us to see and discover... He provided us with this earth and with the ability to evolve and adapt to our ever changing planet in order for us to continue to survive and further our knowledge about the things He created for us...

Im old enough to understand that some stories in the bible are far fetched, but what i do realize and i think you do not, is that these stories are meant to instill moral and ethical and logical reasonings and character.. Also, i believe they are meant to guide us and they act as a support when you are in times of torment. IT works for me, why cant it work for you?





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> @ olylifter can i ask you a question now please , you have been asking so many in my thread .
> 
> what is it that makes you personaly believe in the god you believein? , why did you choose that god and not another ?


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

when have i said that? i too am not that ignorant to think God will show you where your keys are, but i am not naive enough either to think all of this came from nothing just cause some dude with a big head in a wheelchair said so...





RawBudzski said:


> Religion aside , I belive in god. I know all this is not out of chance and I dont give Man kind this much credit to have gotten this far.. But I know that when Man kind tries to take that relationship with God leterally like they can speak to him, and he will help you find your keys.. and that hes watching over you and not this other group of ppl.. Trust me, the cosmos is too big for 1 Race, religion of ppl to know it all or even UNDERSTAND the bigger picture.. so Believing in god is one thing, Using a religion as PROOF your god exists & theirs does not just sounds weak minded does it not. ? Religion gives its own reasons to be hated. Wars, crusades, honor killing, arranged marriages... Humans stopped thinking for themselves and started thinking how others prefer.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Are you serious? It is a matter of geographical and personal up bringing... I believe in God because nothing can come out of nothing... In my mind that does not fit... stephen hawkins said it himself, "in the beginning there was nothing and this nothing came into itself and exploded, creating what is now the universe" in his computer voice...
> 
> 
> If nothing can come from nothing, then just by looking at a point on the wall, you can create a mural of yourself or a painting of a woman, or whatever you want because this nothing will create anything. it created the universe, why cant this space of nothing on your wall create something out of it?
> ...


so because you dont know what was here if anything before the universe you are happy to believe a god created everything with no evidence at all to back it up , you might aswell believe in the bogey man .
and if you go with the notion of nothing can come from nothing where did your god come from ?


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

I see, but still. can we agree Religion is not the same as believing in god.. No 1 should talk down on you for believing in God. But when people decide "God, is the reason I should fast today" "Because of God im going to ensure my kid memorizes the bible or koran" "My God does not condone of interracial couples" "God will smite non believers" all that BS is RELIGION, not a relationship with God. its a Wanna be relationship... Religion gives ppl the idea their bonding with their god in a personal way. which leads them to make decisions, act upon that.. Thats where religion goes wrong, when it justifies actions people should not be doing.


olylifter420 said:


> when have i said that? i too am not that ignorant to think God will show you where your keys are, but i am not naive enough either to think all of this came from nothing just cause some dude with a big head in a wheelchair said so...


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 8, 2011)

anyway ill have to get back to you lot tomorow im busy now .......laters .


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

And its kinda tricky but hes Right, who made GOD? or was he the onlything outside of that mass and one day decided to pop it and thus THE BIG BANG.. maybe he got bored of everything (literally) at the tip of his finger and decided to spread it out.  anywho, on a serious note.. I think its SAFE TO SAY their have been more MURDERS, KILLINGS, WARS, HUMAN DEMISE at the hand of religion than anything else.. UP UNTIL RELIGION WAS CREATED, SINCE THEN IT HAS BEEN the #1 cause of loss of human life on this planet. 



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so because you dont know what was here if anything before the universe you are happy to believe a god created everything with no evidence at all to back it up , you might aswell believe in the bogey man .
> and if you go with the notion of nothing can come from nothing where did your god come from ?


----------



## karri0n (Aug 8, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I see, but still. can we agree Religion is not the same as believing in god.. No 1 should talk down on you for believing in God. But when people decide "God, is the reason I should fast today" "Because of God im going to ensure my kid memorizes the bible or koran" "My God does not condone of interracial couples" "God will smite non believers" all that BS is RELIGION, not a relationship with God. its a Wanna be relationship... Religion gives ppl the idea their bonding with their god in a personal way. which leads them to make decisions, act upon that.. Thats where religion goes wrong, when it justifies actions people should not be doing.


That's not necessarily true. A religion is, in its most basic form, a way by which someone lives their life that is unwavering and uncompromisable. Some are more structured than others, some are taught and some are just slowly assembled by the person, some entail belief in a deity while others do not. Something like the code of Chivalry could be your religion. What you are describing here sounds more like fundamentalism.

Fundamentalism is the belief that your way is not only better than all others, but the only acceptable way. 

The "relationship with god" that you alluded to is spirituality.

Religion - a way of life, a set of morals, ethics, or guidelines

Spirituality - a relationship with the divine

Fundamentalism - an unwavering and usually dangerous belief that your way is the only acceptable way.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

thats it, i didnt say nothing comes from nothing, your great scientist stephen hawkins said it... what is it with trying to put words into my mouth? Saying things i never said, and if you do please provide a quote where i said it...

and like i said, i choose to believe in what i want to believe in, why do you choose to believe in science if science is always changing and discredited just like religion is?





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so because you dont know what was here if anything before the universe you are happy to believe a god created everything with no evidence at all to back it up , you might aswell believe in the bogey man .
> and if you go with the notion of nothing can come from nothing where did your god come from ?


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

No what im describing is Religion. not the watered down things you bring up.. but in the manner we speak.. GOD, christian religion. If far from what you describe. The PPL killing others over religion are a little more serious than you describe..


karri0n said:


> That's not necessarily true. A religion is, in its most basic form, a way by which someone lives their life that is unwavering and uncompromisable. Some are more structured than others, some are taught and some are just slowly assembled by the person, some entail belief in a deity while others do not. Something like the code of Chivalry could be your religion. What you are describing here sounds more like fundamentalism.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Because as you just admitted, what you believe in was pulled from thin air and assembled in your head. Trust me, Science may change every day of the week but it would still be healthier working out the problems than Making them up in your head as you go.


olylifter420 said:


> thats it, i didnt say nothing comes from nothing, your great scientist stephen hawkins said it... what is it with trying to put words into my mouth? Saying things i never said, and if you do please provide a quote where i said it...
> 
> and like i said, i choose to believe in what i want to believe in, why do you choose to believe in science if science is always changing and discredited just like religion is?


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

I do agree with what you said, that religion is not the same thing as believing in God.. 





RawBudzski said:


> I see, but still. can we agree Religion is not the same as believing in god.. No 1 should talk down on you for believing in God. But when people decide "God, is the reason I should fast today" "Because of God im going to ensure my kid memorizes the bible or koran" "My God does not condone of interracial couples" "God will smite non believers" all that BS is RELIGION, not a relationship with God. its a Wanna be relationship... Religion gives ppl the idea their bonding with their god in a personal way. which leads them to make decisions, act upon that.. Thats where religion goes wrong, when it justifies actions people should not be doing.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Common ground ! Yes I was raised christian, I can respect its ideas and such.. but at the same time I would feel silly to go out to another man and tell him, my God is the one.. and his needs to change a little.


olylifter420 said:


> Now that you mention it, i dont go to any church for the fact that they are thieves, robbing people blind of their money just cause the church needs it... what a crock of shit! I believe in the Christian God because i was raised Christian, but if i would have been raised muslim, well i would believe in the god of the koran...
> 
> I do agree with what you said, that religion is not the same thing as believing in God..


----------



## karri0n (Aug 8, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> SINCE THEN IT HAS BEEN the #1 cause of loss of human life on this planet.


Disease, hunger, and non-religious war dwarf this number by many, many orders of magnitude.


----------



## karri0n (Aug 8, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> No what im describing is Religion. not the watered down things you bring up.. but in the manner we speak.. GOD, christian religion. If far from what you describe. The PPL killing others over religion are a little more serious than you describe..


You're talking about fundamentalism, not religion.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

as you said, you dont goto church cause they take money. True. even if their hearts and minds are in the right place at that particular church and donated EVERY CENT..its still sad to see thats where "religion" has gone.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

No your giving me the technical definition and idea of religion. your right but your not on the same page as what we speak of.. When we say religion we mean Established religions that have hardcore beliefs and tendencies. Yes their are tons of others who are religious in their own way, But RELIGION as a whole, all the Front Runners.. Have alot more Issues than you seem to give credit. Do you not agree that Religions have done if not as much evil as they have done good? not talking on a personal person to person basis. I know it may work for some, I know some know how to handle it. Im talking about the pastor on your tv screen asking for donations. Thats religion


karri0n said:


> You're talking about fundamentalism, not religion.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

if i remember properly, hitler was not a religious type, some even go as far to say that he was an atheist, which i truly believe he was... what other thing can make you gain so much hatred for another person and religion that you decide to take over a country(germany) and use its military power to kill more then 6 million jews millions of other non jewish people... oh and the red army, i highly doubt that they were driven by God, they were driven by a dictator who cared nothing for human life and killed over 15 million people themselves... stalin was not a religious type either, SO IT IS SAFE TO SAY that he was atheist as well...


so, to counter you statement, i believe there has been more deaths at the hands of atheists then at the hands of religious people.




RawBudzski said:


> And its kinda tricky but hes Right, who made GOD? or was he the onlything outside of that mass and one day decided to pop it and thus THE BIG BANG.. maybe he got bored of everything (literally) at the tip of his finger and decided to spread it out.  anywho, on a serious note.. I think its SAFE TO SAY their have been more MURDERS, KILLINGS, WARS, HUMAN DEMISE at the hand of religion than anything else.. UP UNTIL RELIGION WAS CREATED, SINCE THEN IT HAS BEEN the #1 cause of loss of human life on this planet.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

that is not religion you speak of, that is a highly legal mafia





RawBudzski said:


> No your giving me the technical definition and idea of religion. your right but your not on the same page as what we speak of.. When we say religion we mean Established religions that have hardcore beliefs and tendencies. Yes their are tons of others who are religious in their own way, But RELIGION as a whole, all the Front Runners.. Have alot more Issues than you seem to give credit. Do you not agree that Religions have done if not as much evil as they have done good? not talking on a personal person to person basis. I know it may work for some, I know some know how to handle it. Im talking about the pastor on your tv screen asking for donations. Thats religion


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

may not be to you.. but the Idea is to get OTHER RELIGIOUS FALLOWERS, to donate. Regardless if their Efficient in their religion or belief, its premise is/was to get large sums of people thinking similar.

and im going back to its origins, from the beginning. Religion was alot more hardcore 100 years ago than the politically correct world we live in today. It was a control mechanism as much as a link to a god.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

yes, con artists have found a perfect way to scam people out of millions of dollars a year, claiming that God needs it... what a bunch of assholes, but God has a special place for those douchebags...





RawBudzski said:


> as you said, you dont goto church cause they take money. True. even if their hearts and minds are in the right place at that particular church and donated EVERY CENT..its still sad to see thats where "religion" has gone.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

what im saying is their is no Difference, only your opinion on what they are. Some call the christian church a religion, others say its more of a business for profit.


olylifter420 said:


> that is not religion you speak of, that is a highly legal mafia


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Hitler DID belive in Aliens, Did believe the true human roots were aryan. So hitler DID Believe, just diddnt say it was a God telling him todo good.. and I know for a fact Atheism has not caused more loss of life than RELIGION.. maybe if you wanna cut it down to a TIME LINE.. or certain Years.. but in the HISTORY OF MAN.. More deaths due to beliefs and religions.. than for no reason.


olylifter420 said:


> if i remember properly, hitler was not a religious type, some even go as far to say that he was an atheist, which i truly believe he was... what other thing can make you gain so much hatred for another person and religion that you decide to take over a country(germany) and use its military power to kill more then 6 million jews millions of other non jewish people... oh and the red army, i highly doubt that they were driven by God, they were driven by a dictator who cared nothing for human life and killed over 15 million people themselves... stalin was not a religious type either, SO IT IS SAFE TO SAY that he was atheist as well...
> 
> 
> so, to counter you statement, i believe there has been more deaths at the hands of atheists then at the hands of religious people.


----------



## karri0n (Aug 8, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> No your giving me the technical definition and idea of religion.
> Have alot more Issues than you seem to give credit.


Yes, I am giving you the correct *definition*. It's you who are using the wrong *term*



RawBudzski said:


> But RELIGION as a whole, all the Front Runners..


"All the front runners" and "Religion as a whole" are two different things entirely. Have a look at this example:

*
Mcdonalds and Burger King are cheap, and kinda gross*

Where "Mcdonalds and Burger King" are the "front runners"

*
All restaurants are cheap, and kinda gross*

And "Restaurants" are "religion"


RawBudzski said:


> No your giving me the technical definition and idea of religion. your right but your not on the same page as what we speak of.. When we say religion we mean Established religions that have hardcore beliefs and tendencies. Yes their are tons of others who are religious in their own way, But RELIGION as a whole, all the Front Runners.. Have alot more Issues than you seem to give credit. Do you not agree that Religions have done if not as much evil as they have done good? not talking on a personal person to person basis. I know it may work for some, I know some know how to handle it. Im talking about the pastor on your tv screen asking for donations. Thats religion


You're talking about *Organized religion*, not *religion.* And in actuality, you're pretty much talking about *Christianity.* And these problems you are talking about are problems caused by *fundamentalism.* 

Now, whether or not the Christian church has done more harm than good is quite difficult to quantify. On the one hand, there have been many deaths, political strife, and societal, medical, and scientific setbacks due to Christian rule. On the other hand, from the same sources, there have been many technological innovations, positive societal impacts, and a great deal of unity that otherwise would not have been.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

MILLIONS died in the Crusades led by Christians. and their were like 11 crusades. Its well accepted belief that their have been more Human Deaths due to belief / religion since it began than All other causes, some even say AIDS, HIV, HOMICIDE, SUICIDE combined. interesting to read, look it up. Remember this is a big planet, and alot of time has passed.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

why do people fail to see alchemy for what it was... it was not related to Christianity... but put a major halt on chemistry work




karri0n said:


> You're talking about *Organized religion*, not *religion.* And in actuality, you're pretty much talking about *Christianity.* And these problems you are talking about are problems caused by *fundamentalism.*
> 
> Now, whether or not the Christian church has done more harm than good is quite difficult to quantify. On the one hand, there have been many deaths, political strife, and societal, medical, and scientific setbacks due to Christian rule. On the other hand, from the same sources, there have been many technological innovations, positive societal impacts, and a great deal of unity that otherwise would not have been.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

really, and these crusades, where did you read about them?





RawBudzski said:


> MILLIONS died in the Crusades led by Christians. and their were like 11 crusades. Its well accepted belief that their have been more Human Deaths due to belief / religion since it began than All other causes, some even say AIDS, HIV, HOMICIDE, SUICIDE combined. interesting to read, look it up. Remember this is a big planet, and alot of time has passed.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

You are correct, but I still dont think we can separate them, legit or not, Morally correct or not. They call themselves religions. and yes im speaking more towards the past than now days, cause Yes of course religious groups do true good and help people.. im just saying their are just as many people if not more abusing religion for all the wrong reasons.. thus without separating the two different ppl, I would like to go back to the beginning argument that Science and the search for intelligence / truth. Should if not will help feed that need better than religion will. I think its two different types of knowledge, one makes you more spiritual and feel good maybe, another may simply answer some of your questions in life, even if its as dumbed down as slow down when driving in the rain cause theirs less friction.. both science and religion has its place. But when ppl feel they must Choose 1 to live by causes issues.. and Let me say, I do not think all humans are Equal. maybe in the eyes of god. but on this planet, you cannot regard all humans as being able to withstand the same things, stresses, pain. So in my judgement I may be wrong by saying I do believe tribal people, more primitive people who rely and base their life on religion shouldn't be in charge..  nothing wrong with having their opinion.. but they shouldn't be able to lead other people down such a nieve path. Us humans are here to evolve and get past our issues.. and dragging religion along like its the answer only holds us back.


karri0n said:


> You're talking about *Organized religion*, not *religion.* And in actuality, you're pretty much talking about *Christianity.* And these problems you are talking about are problems caused by *fundamentalism.*
> 
> Now, whether or not the Christian church has done more harm than good is quite difficult to quantify. On the one hand, there have been many deaths, political strife, and societal, medical, and scientific setbacks due to Christian rule. On the other hand, from the same sources, there have been many technological innovations, positive societal impacts, and a great deal of unity that otherwise would not have been.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

im not going to tell you if you dunno what the crusades are. you were absent that day in 5th grade? dude if you dont know about the crusades you need to learn more about your own religion


olylifter420 said:


> really, and these crusades, where did you read about them?


----------



## karri0n (Aug 8, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> MILLIONS died in the Crusades led by Christians. and their were like 11 crusades. Its well accepted belief that their have been more Human Deaths due to belief / religion since it began than All other causes, some even say AIDS, HIV, HOMICIDE, SUICIDE combined. interesting to read, look it up. Remember this is a big planet, and alot of time has passed.


You are making this up, or are misinformed. It's not a well accepted belief at all that religion has caused more death than any other cause. Starvation, famine, plague, disease, have and still do cause more death than anything else. Even the "millions" projected in the case of the crusades has been shown to be quite exaggerated. There are nearly 7 billion people on this planet. If 10 million were killed in the crusades(they werent), that's hardly a drop in the bucket.


----------



## karri0n (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> why do people fail to see alchemy for what it was... it was not related to Christianity... but put a major halt on chemistry work


I'm not talking about Alchemy. I'm talking about the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome when all of the modern technology, writing, art, and science was burned to the ground and lost to the annals of history.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

dude, i just want to know where you read about them? i never said i dont about the crusades, please EXPLAIN them to me, did I?

where did you read of them? too scared to answer the question?





RawBudzski said:


> im not going to tell you if you dunno what the crusades are. you were absent that day in 5th grade? dude if you dont know about the crusades you need to learn more about your own religion


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

i did not say starvation, or any of thoes and you look it up please.. It is WELL argued that religion has CAUSED more Loss of Life than any other REASONS humans killed humans.. your thinking to hard and just take it for what it is.. If you have never heard that, than im sure youve never looked it up.. But yes when it comes to Humans causing Human Loss... Religion is ahead.


karri0n said:


> You are making this up, or are misinformed. It's not a well accepted belief at all that religion has caused more death than any other cause. Starvation, famine, plague, disease, have and still do cause more death than anything else. Even the "millions" projected in the case of the crusades has been shown to be quite exaggerated. There are nearly 7 billion people on this planet. If 10 million were killed in the crusades(they werent), that's hardly a drop in the bucket.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

yes, then we must include the works of the all the ancient Native Indian tribes as well... most of their documentation work was burned by the stupid asses who wanted to conquer them and exploit them for what they knew and what they had.






karri0n said:


> I'm not talking about Alchemy. I'm talking about the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome when all of the modern technology, writing, art, and science was burned to the ground and lost to the annals of history.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

where is this magical research you are reading, please post a link to confirm?







RawBudzski said:


> i did not say starvation, or any of thoes and you look it up please.. It is WELL argued that religion has CAUSED more Loss of Life than any other REASONS humans killed humans.. your thinking to hard and just take it for what it is.. If you have never heard that, than im sure youve never looked it up.. But yes when it comes to Humans causing Human Loss... Religion is ahead.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

I think it was christians who wiped them out.. or were the 1st settlers all atheists. you said ancient tho, not sure how far back your going lol


olylifter420 said:


> yes, then we must include the works of the all the ancient Native Indian tribes as well... most of their documentation work was burned by the stupid asses who wanted to conquer them and exploit them for what they knew and what they had.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

christians? are you serious? dude, go read up on history before you make such assumptions...





RawBudzski said:


> I think it was christians who wiped them out.. or were the 1st settlers all atheists.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Deaths caused by non-Christians: ill find the full article but this was giving an example... the full article shows how Christianity is not the fore runner in causes of deaths but when you add in christianity & all the other religions.. These numbers are conservative and add up to around 90 million ppl dead due to religion.. and look .. thats only a few religions

184-205 &#8211; Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) &#8211; China &#8211; 7 million
1300s-1521 &#8211; Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) &#8211; Mexico &#8211; 1 million
1855-1877 &#8211; Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) &#8211; China &#8211; 12 million
1932-1933 &#8211; Holodomor (communist atheists) &#8211; Ukraine &#8211; 10 million
1941-1945 &#8211; Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) &#8211; Germany &#8211; 11 million
1959-1962 &#8211; Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) &#8211; China &#8211; 43 million
1971 &#8211; Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) &#8211; East Pakistan &#8211; 3 million 
1975-1979 &#8211; Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) &#8211; Cambodia &#8211; 3 million
September 11, 2007 &#8211; Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) &#8211; USA &#8211; 5,000


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

a few time lines. now try to expand your mind and Think about the ENTIRE history of religion and whats gone on. you guys do your own homework im not a tutor anymore


RawBudzski said:


> Deaths caused by non-Christians: ill find the full article but this was giving an example... the full article shows how Christianity is not the fore runner in causes of deaths but when you add in christianity & all the other religions.. These numbers are conservative and add up to around 90 million ppl dead due to religion.. and look .. thats only a few religions
> 
> 184-205 &#8211; Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) &#8211; China &#8211; 7 million
> 1300s-1521 &#8211; Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) &#8211; Mexico &#8211; 1 million
> ...


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

sorry not just Religions but Beliefs too.. Beliefs / Religions hand in hand caused these deaths


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

oh and if your planning on bringing up the fact some may be communist atheists.. doesnt count cause they were not slicing their own wrists .. they were killing OTHER ppl due to their BELIEFS / RELIGIONS.. incase you diddnt understand but the article explains it in depth


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

it is clear with those stats to say that atheism has been the leading cause of deaths.. not religion or Christianity... thank you





RawBudzski said:


> Deaths caused by non-Christians: ill find the full article but this was giving an example... the full article shows how Christianity is not the fore runner in causes of deaths but when you add in christianity & all the other religions.. These numbers are conservative and add up to around 90 million ppl dead due to religion.. and look .. thats only a few religions
> 
> 184-205 &#8211; Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) &#8211; China &#8211; 7 million
> 1300s-1521 &#8211; Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) &#8211; Mexico &#8211; 1 million
> ...


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

to bad, they are still atheists and hold to certain BELIEFS... and if i remember, you put BELIEFS/RELIGION like so to see that beliefs and religion are synonymous... 





RawBudzski said:


> oh and if your planning on bringing up the fact some may be communist atheists.. doesnt count cause they were not slicing their own wrists .. they were killing OTHER ppl due to their BELIEFS / RELIGIONS.. incase you diddnt understand but the article explains it in depth


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Numbers still dont lie. we went from talking about science and religion to pure religion.. which I was not on the side of in the 1st place.. so bring science back up and ill hop back in.. I just dont think its hard to see their has been more Human on Human hate due to religion than some random causes.. Im not saying we would be better off without it, nothing like that. But we gotta accept and acknowledge its downfalls or not give it enough credit as to say its a safe alternative to science.


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> in a sense you are negating evolution because of the fact that such things cannot stand falsification, therefore since these hominids had these rituals or beliefs in a higher power which you claim is not true, they too would not believe in evolution and would not be considered a part of evolution due to their beliefs.
> 
> you want falsification, here is one for you...
> 
> ...


Oly do you re-read and consider your responses before you post? I only ask because the mistakes you made here have been pointed out to you before, and others seem downright obvious. 

in a sense you are negating evolution because of the fact that such things cannot stand falsification 

Evolution has been surviving falsification since the late 1800's, indeed this is why we have such confidence in it. Maybe you don't understand exactly what falsification is. With evolution we have had the opposite result. We have discovered mounds of evidence supporting it from many independent fields of research. This evidence allows us to make predictions, many of which turn out to be correct. It is in fact one of the most supported theories every formed.

therefore since these hominids had these rituals or beliefs in a higher power which you claim is not true

Do you fully read my posts? I didn't say it wasn't true. I said if it is true, it only proves that religion has been around for a long time, and nothing more. You're not purposely misrepresenting my position are you?

they too would not believe in evolution and would not be considered a part of evolution due to their beliefs.

I think before you bring up evolution again, you should take the time to learn what evolution is. If you think evolution excludes people based on belief then you are terribly uninformed.

what is that to say about the rest of the theories and laws out there? That they may not hold true when put under the right tests and done by the right mind. 

Why do you think we have falsification and peer review? We have these things to purposely try to prove theories wrong. Being wrong is part of the process, and the only way we can get closer to being right. If someone, even a 12y/o, proves a scientist wrong, a true scientist is not disappointed, but accepts the facts and abandons the theory. This does not mean abandoning science, and in fact is following science accordingly.

Why would one theory being wrong have any bearing on a completely different theory? If your point is that scientific theories are subject to mistakes and to being incorrect, well duh, this is something science anticipates and depends on. Science makes every attempt at self correction.

And lets stop pretending Stephen Hawking is the end all authority on atheists point of view. Lets also stop pretending that to understand what Hawking meant when he said "nothing", does not take considerable study of the context. In fact, it takes this guy an hour to explain it. What I have also heard Stephen say is, science doesn't disprove god, but simply offers us an explanation which does not require god. Finally, lets stop pretending that the big bang has anything to do with atheism.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

NO, i saw his show they made on discovery this past sunday where he said it, "god does not exist" in his weird ass computer voice... and im sorry if my response does not make sense to you

also, what is the purpose to following these theories and laws if they will eventually be disproven, maybe not in our time, but they will... just like that boy who is disproving several theories already... it is obvious that religion and religious practices have been around since man evolved, then why is it so hard to accept now?

you cannot prove God does not exist, but you can disprove theories.

i only use computer dude cause he is a leading authority in many things.


God cannot be proven or disproven through science, but certain theories can be disproved through time consuming research. 

the evidence of God is anecdotal and a personal experience that no one else will ever understand. There is no method at disproving or proving God, so why make such a big deal about it?

I understand evolution, thank you... but i am a bit medicated, so please understand... and no i am not trying to misrepresent your point... 




Heisenberg said:


> Oly do you re-read and consider your responses before you post? I only ask because the mistakes you made here have been pointed out to you before, and others seem downright obvious.
> 
> in a sense you are negating evolution because of the fact that such things cannot stand falsification
> 
> ...


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

i never gave credit to the wrong doings of religious lunatics. the things i have given credit for are the interpretations that one makes from the stories of the Bible... if you interpret them literally, then something is totally wrong with you..

i have no idea how you say we got off topic, please, bring a subject up and i will be glad to join in again...

im pretty medicated right now, so





RawBudzski said:


> Numbers still dont lie. we went from talking about science and religion to pure religion.. which I was not on the side of in the 1st place.. so bring science back up and ill hop back in.. I just dont think its hard to see their has been more Human on Human hate due to religion than some random causes.. Im not saying we would be better off without it, nothing like that. But we gotta accept and acknowledge its downfalls or not give it enough credit as to say its a safe alternative to science.


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i never gave credit to the wrong doings of religious lunatics. the things i have given credit for are the interpretations that one makes from the stories of the Bible... if you interpret them literally, then something is totally wrong with you..
> 
> i have no idea how you say we got off topic, please, bring a subject up and i will be glad to join in again...
> 
> im pretty medicated right now, so


Which parts do you take literall? If any? What is it then metaphor? I've never read it, I don't know all the stories just some.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Exactly cause im SURE OLY's understanding of the Bible is Different from the Next Christian's understanding. I would like to know one piece of knowledge hes with holding that would make a good case for his understanding of God & Religion. Dont try to prove your religion is correct if you cannot yourself speak up in its defence with some good points.


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> NO, i saw his show they made on discovery this past sunday where he said it, "god does not exist" in his weird ass computer voice... and im sorry if my response does not make sense to you


At least get your quote correct. "If you accept as you do that the laws of nature are fixed, it doesn't take long to ask what role there is for god. It's my view that the simplest explanation is there is no god. No one created the universe and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization there is probably no heaven and no afterlife either."

First, his conclusion is clearly based on an "if", an assumption that the laws of nature are fixed. and he assumes the answer is simple. He never says there absolutely is no god, it's just that is what his conclusion is. This is no different than what many of the posters here on RIU have been saying, that this is the conclusion they have come to personally. No one, including Hawking is saying he is 100% right and anyone that disagrees with him is wrong. In the panel discussion afterward, Michio Kaku said that Hawking went too far,
"I believe that Stephen is going a little bit too far in saying that because time itself was born at the instant of the big bang, therefore there is no god."
He then goes on to explain what string theorists say about the existence of a multiverse that our universe is only a part and that there are rules for this multiverse and we can talk about a world before the big bang. 

As much as Hawking has become the voice of cosmology over the years, his actual credentials in physics is much less impressive than many other scientists out there. He really hasn't made a major impact since his paper on Hawking radiation of black holes and even there he made a major misstep when he create the information paradox. I guess what I'm pointing out to you is that Hawking is NOT a leading authority on many things, his actual area of expertise is quite small and this is a good example of why arguments from authority should be thoroughly questioned.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

I see, so hawkins sucks to quote then... And it is my interpretation that from what.he has said, he certainly believes God doesnt exist, so why try to defend him? Also, I gave credit to who said it, although not word per word, but in my understanding.

Why is it that you somehow always pick on what I say? 

I respect everything you say, but I dont call you out for it do I?

But its ok, let us continue our debate if you will.





mindphuk said:


> At least get your quote correct. "If you accept as you do that the laws of nature are fixed, it doesn't take long to ask what role there is for god. It's my view that the simplest explanation is there is no god. No one created the universe and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization there is probably no heaven and no afterlife either."
> 
> First, his conclusion is clearly based on an "if", an assumption that the laws of nature are fixed. and he assumes the answer is simple. He never says there absolutely is no god, it's just that is what his conclusion is. This is no different than what many of the posters here on RIU have been saying, that this is the conclusion they have come to personally. No one, including Hawking is saying he is 100% right and anyone that disagrees with him is wrong. In the panel discussion afterward, Michio Kaku said that Hawking went too far,
> "I believe that Stephen is going a little bit too far in saying that because time itself was born at the instant of the big bang, therefore there is no god."
> ...


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

I have much respect for Dr. Kakuo, sorry for the misspell.

But string theory? Have not bothered to read up on it. 

So then, if hawkins suks in the field, why do they have him as the main person on this subject?

I think they used him to show to people that God is cruel, thats why he is in a wheelchair, therefore giving the audience a sense of compassion and hopefully willing to side him.




mindphuk said:


> At least get your quote correct. "If you accept as you do that the laws of nature are fixed, it doesn't take long to ask what role there is for god. It's my view that the simplest explanation is there is no god. No one created the universe and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization there is probably no heaven and no afterlife either."
> 
> First, his conclusion is clearly based on an "if", an assumption that the laws of nature are fixed. and he assumes the answer is simple. He never says there absolutely is no god, it's just that is what his conclusion is. This is no different than what many of the posters here on RIU have been saying, that this is the conclusion they have come to personally. No one, including Hawking is saying he is 100% right and anyone that disagrees with him is wrong. In the panel discussion afterward, Michio Kaku said that Hawking went too far,
> "I believe that Stephen is going a little bit too far in saying that because time itself was born at the instant of the big bang, therefore there is no god."
> ...


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> I see, so hawkins sucks to quote then... And it is my interpretation that from what.he has said, he certainly believes God doesnt exist, so why try to defend him? Also, I gave credit to who said it, although not word per word, but in my understanding.
> 
> Why is it that you somehow always pick on what I say?
> 
> ...


Please understand that correcting your error or misconceptions is not picking on you. I am honestly trying to explain what you seem to be questioning.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Mind Oly is sheltered. until you have him explain his christian religion and its meaning you wont know to which extent his mind is actually phukd


----------



## mindphuk (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> I have much respect for Dr. Kakuo, sorry for the misspell.
> 
> But string theory? Have not bothered to read up on it.
> 
> ...


 Hawking doesn't suck, he just isn't the end-all-be-all that some in the popular media make him out to be. He is extremely intelligent and has to do all of the complex mathematics in his head without being able to write it down (although he does use students for that, it is painstakingly slow). He has come up with some ideas that has helped physics and cosmology along but not nearly as prolific as some other physicists that you probably never have heard of before. His popularity is due to his image by the public. 

His story is also quite remarkable as he should be dead by now and that along with his incredible brain makes for a good story and a good face of physics. I think it's less of a sympathy angle as you say but more of a look what even he can accomplish attitude. Sort of a 'fuck you' to the randomness and cruelty of the world, here's someone that overcame the bad cards he was dealt. 

You say 'they' have him as the main person on 'this subject' but that is not the case although I can see why it might appear to be from someone outside of the physics community. He is popular because like I said, he couldn't have accomplished even a fraction of what he did unless he was supremely intelligent and he has written some books for the lay public on the subjects of cosmology. Books written for the public at large, if they become popular, certainly help the reputation of the author.


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

Man Mindphuk I have been waiting for you all day. Common sense cannot crack Oly, he needs Long Paragraphs like that to intimidate him because we all know.. if its a structured paragraph than it must be true.


----------



## tyler.durden (Aug 8, 2011)

Hey, Gents. It's nice to see some rational people here defending science and atheism. Big shout out to Heisenberg! I read his microbes thread many times, and after battling slime and root problems for many harvests, I now use his tea and growing is now a breeze  His posts remind me of Sam Harris in insight and fairness, and he and mindphuk are owning this thread! Keep up the good fight...


----------



## Heisenberg (Aug 8, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> what is the purpose to following these theories and laws if they will eventually be disproven, maybe not in our time, but they will... just like that boy who is disproving several theories already... it is obvious that religion and religious practices have been around since man evolved, then why is it so hard to accept now?


False premise. You speak as if all theories will eventually be proven wrong. Again, you are depending on certain assumptions to give your arguments validity. We follow theories because they are the best mechanism we have for explaining and understanding our observations. Each time a theory is proven wrong, another becomes a little more right. Knowing something is incorrect is just another piece in the puzzle that helps us see the big picture. Are you saying you would respect science more if it made up it's mind once and for all and then never considered the subject again? What are we to do when new technologies are developed which help us find new evidence? Should science ignore the new evidence for the sake of not loosing face? There is no shame in admitting you were incorrect and then moving on to find the correct answer. Also, as it has been pointed out, all scientific conclusions are predicated on the understanding that things can change. Science provides no absolute answers, nor does it pretend to.

I do accept religion of course. I accept that there is religion now, and has been for a very long time. This argument is not about if religion exists. I do not accept the claim of a deity, and I have explained my reasons thoroughly. 



> you cannot prove God does not exist, but you can disprove theories.
> 
> 
> God cannot be proven or disproven through science, but certain theories can be disproved through time consuming research.
> ...


It has been explained to you that no one is trying to disprove god. If someone says they can disprove god, you should not see them as an atheist, but a dumbass. You may be able to find some atheists making invalid arguments, but ultimately those should be ignored. It is not valid to pretend that those arguments are the whole of atheism and refuting them refutes the entire stance. Someone who is interested in the truth recognizes bad arguments, may even call them out, but he pays the most attention to the arguments that make sense.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

I do agree with everything you say. When discussing things with, I get a better sense of the subject. Others on here think they are really smart and make assumptions.

Im glad I can agree with what you have said and I know I have wondered off topic a bit and for that I apologize.

Thanks bro.





Heisenberg said:


> False premise. You speak as if all theories will eventually be proven wrong. Again, you are depending on certain assumptions to give your arguments validity. We follow theories because they are the best mechanism we have for explaining and understanding our observations. Each time a theory is proven wrong, another becomes a little more right. Knowing something is incorrect is just another piece in the puzzle that helps us see the big picture. Are you saying you would respect science more if it made up it's mind once and for all and then never considered the subject again? What are we to do when new technologies are developed which help us find new evidence? Should science ignore the new evidence for the sake of not loosing face? There is no shame in admitting you were incorrect and then moving on to find the correct answer. Also, as it has been pointed out, all scientific conclusions are predicated on the understanding that things can change. Science provides no absolute answers, nor does it pretend to.
> 
> I do accept religion of course. I accept that there is religion now, and has been for a very long time. This argument is not about if religion exists. I do not accept the claim of a deity, and I have explained my reasons thoroughly.
> 
> ...


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

You truly are a jackass!





RawBudzski said:


> Man Mindphuk I have been waiting for you all day. Common sense cannot crack Oly, he needs Long Paragraphs like that to intimidate him because we all know.. if its a structured paragraph than it must be true.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

Again, you are a jackass!





RawBudzski said:


> Mind Oly is sheltered. until you have him explain his christian religion and its meaning you wont know to which extent his mind is actually phukd


----------



## marleyman5 (Aug 9, 2011)

http://[URL="http://www.scribd.com/7142595/what did jesus realy say/"]www.scribd.com/7142595/what did jesus realy say/[/URL] @hiesenberg and @sativa high...chapter 13 of this book is called the miracle and chalenge of thhe quran...there is scientifiic proof that there is a diety worthy of worship..please read and post it so we believers and disbelievers can debate! pages 617 thru 632 need to be posted up here ther is outstanding proof that you guys challenge everyone to find..im waiting on you heisenberg to tell me what you think....


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 9, 2011)

Just because you want Mindphuk to Break it down for you so you finally endup Understanding better.. thats on you buddy, do more research.. if anything youve admitted you diddnt know entirely what you were talking about... MindPhuk having to spend all this time going in depth was unneccessary if you could just Do your own research a little better.. you wait for more intelligent people to beat it into you.


olylifter420 said:


> Again, you are a jackass!


----------



## tyler.durden (Aug 10, 2011)

Hey, Gents! Check out this YouTube vid, 'Jesus loves you': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4R4VMMTyGc
I think theists, deists, atheists, you'll all love it  It shows how ludicrous christian dogma sounds when explained to a critical thinker unfamiliar with it. Enjoy...


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 12, 2011)

ok guys im back now , has anyone come up with a single piece of viable evidence that there god exists yet ?


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 12, 2011)

yea, you made it back, didnt you?




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ok guys im back now , has anyone come up with a single piece of viable evidence that there god exists yet ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 12, 2011)

ohhh yes im back olly boy , im ready, ......................................spent 3 days in hospital smacked off my tits on morphine lol its been a crazy few days .


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 12, 2011)

wow, thats gotta suck bro! well, that can explain part of your beliefs




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ohhh yes im back olly boy , im ready, ......................................spent 3 days in hospital smacked off my tits on morphine lol its been a crazy few days .


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 12, 2011)

well one thing for sure is, i was trippin balls, but i never saw your god , maybe he only talks to special people or maybe hes to busy arguing with all the other gods up there ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 12, 2011)

or maybe i was only in hospital cause your god put me there for punishment lol ?


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 12, 2011)

oh btw im back in the strawberry kush jar tonight ...............and i fuckin deserve it, last few days has been hell .....look up 'cluster headaches ' on google and you will know where im coming from .peace


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 12, 2011)

heres a question for you .....why is there no archaeoligical evidence of noahs flood , there would definately be evidence of a flood that coverd the whole earth, yet theres nothing ?and if everything else was wiped out at the same time, there would be a layer of the earth that contained every species including man in one single layer that was wiped out in the flood , yet theres no evidence of this atall , i guess the geeks that wrote the bible never imagined we mere humans, could ever look into things like that lol


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 12, 2011)

yeeah, i saw an episode on net geo... they look nice! im pretty sure God gave them to cause you SUCK!
hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> oh btw im back in the strawberry kush jar tonight ...............and i fuckin deserve it, last few days has been hell .....look up 'cluster headaches ' on google and you will know where im coming from .peace


----------



## RawBudzski (Aug 12, 2011)

Their is no fking way that story is true lmao. is he defending it in here? Like really? the Arc?


----------



## bigbillyrocka (Aug 12, 2011)

you guys gotta watch "ancient aliens!" i think discovery or history channel.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Aug 19, 2011)

is there any scragglers out there still fighting ? religion has yet again been owned in this thread .


----------



## JBar82 (Aug 19, 2011)

God may be real or not, but it is faith that keeps him real to so many people. The way he lived his life is the way a lot of people try to do things in their life. For example, good deeds, respect others, and treat people the way you would like to be treated. Whether or not he is real does not matter, people would rather pick a religion for their family that involves believing in something that will effect their family in positive way. I know I was raised to believe in God and Jesus as a kid, but just like Santa at a certain age you realize that he's not real but you still celebrate christmas and its traditions. As I grew older I knew God was not real, but I still use the things I learned about him with me today. Do not get me wrong by thinking I am some one who goes to church or anything because I have not gone in like ten years. I am just someone saying that religions are out there to help people when they need some guidance with life.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 19, 2011)

how many green cards do you own now?





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> is there any scragglers out there still fighting ? religion has yet again been owned in this thread .


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 19, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> yeeah, i saw an episode on net geo... they look nice! im pretty sure God gave them to cause you SUCK!
> hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah


 
Laughing at other mis-fourtune, how nice! I cant begin to imagine what cluster head aches are like but seen my bro go thru them for 5 years. Even if god did give them to him it was science that has helped him thu.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 20, 2011)

bro, you take the internet way too serious! i wish no harm to no one. and i do know what cluster headaches are... they suck ass





mexiblunt said:


> Laughing at other mis-fourtune, how nice! I cant begin to imagine what cluster head aches are like but seen my bro go thru them for 5 years. Even if god did give them to him it was science that has helped him thu.


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 20, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> bro, you take the internet way too serious! i wish no harm to no one. and i do know what cluster headaches are... they suck ass


I must have misinterpreted your post then. I was being serious. I don't wish harm on ppl either, but I'll still laugh at others mis-foutune like when a skateboarder bags himself on a rail, not because it was your gods will, but because the skateboarder knew the risks. I guess when I put the  means I'm being wayyy too serious.


----------



## olylifter420 (Aug 20, 2011)

HAHAHAH, i feel you bro,,, check this one out.... and my posts are often misunderstood or misinterpreted, no biggie

[video=youtube;0lc-hCd-HpM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lc-hCd-HpM&feature=related[/video]





mexiblunt said:


> I must have misinterpreted your post then. I was being serious. I don't wish harm on ppl either, but I'll still laugh at others mis-foutune like when a skateboarder bags himself on a rail, not because it was your gods will, but because the skateboarder knew the risks. I guess when I put the  means I'm being wayyy too serious.


----------



## mexiblunt (Aug 20, 2011)

Owwweeeee!! Hahahahahah My fucking balls bleed watching that. That was an epic jump tho!


----------

