# PH levels KEEP RISING....how do i stop this?



## Delo (Feb 21, 2010)

well i made my hydro system. looks nice and good. but every day the PH level jumps up and i gotta keep adding more PH down to level it out. anyone know why this keeps happening? and how to make it stop?


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## stickyburke (Feb 21, 2010)

ph level will rise in a healthy hydro setup....have to add ph down...perfectly normal


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## horribleherk (Feb 21, 2010)

i dont know what setup u made but i did bubbleponic grow & had to lower ph level daily . i would lower it to 6.3 or so & by the next day it would be well over 7.2 or higher close to 8 especialy when plants developed lots of roots & in late vegging the ph. jumps slowed during budding i imagine dwc. would act the same


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## Delo (Feb 21, 2010)

o iight. i thought somethin was goin wrong for ah second. thanks


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## snutter (Feb 22, 2010)

stickyburke said:


> ph level will rise in a healthy hydro setup....have to add ph down...perfectly normal


this is NOT correct.

In a healthy hydro system, the pH should not be "jumping" up each day as you mention. And you most definitely should not have to be adding pH down every day. In fact, you really don't want to have to much pH down in your nutrient solution if possible.

Now, to figure out your problem we need to know a little bit more here:

What type of nutes are you using? What's your ppm?

How far along are your plants?

what type of hydro system did you build?

what is your growing medium? (this is an important question. For example, if you're using rock wool, and running a drip system, then this can cause your pH to rise. The reason it can is because rock wool has a high pH, so dripping through it can cause your nutrient solution's pH to rise).

what type of water are you using (e.g. RO, distilled, tap, etc.)?

This should be a good start. I'll try to keep an eye on this thread and watch for your answers.

-S

PS
I run a DWC hydro system. I use 18 gallon totes, with 12 gallons of nutrient solution. When I mix up a fresh batch of nutes, i of course adjust my pH. This is the ONLY time I need to adjust. In general, it stays right at 5.5 until the next nute change.

which brings me to my other point, someone mentioned a pH of 6.2 for you. That's incorrect as well. That's pH for soil. For hydro you want to stay in the realm of 5.3 to 5.8, no higher no lower...


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## Mcgician (Feb 22, 2010)

snutter said:


> this is NOT correct.
> 
> In a healthy hydro system, the pH should not be "jumping" up each day as you mention. And you most definitely should not have to be adding pH down every day. In fact, you really don't want to have to much pH down in your nutrient solution if possible.
> 
> ...


Agreed. In a large situation where many plants are growing in the VEGETATIVE state, provided you don't use any supplements that state that they're pH stabilizers, if the plants are growing healthily, you SHOULD see a slight pH rise. In the flowering phase the situation should be reversed- you should see a slight decrease in pH. I started using Bud Candy during the flowering phase and aside from its carbohydrates it also has pH stabilizers that work to control large swings in pH. If it's really a problem, you may want to check into using something along those lines.


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## fatman7574 (Feb 22, 2010)

Plants have different uptakes of nutrients at different time so with a mj formulation nutrient fertilizer containing principlally nitrate nirogen and less than 15% of its total nitrogen as ammonium nitrogen the ph is controlled by the nitrogen form that is atken up by the plants. During time of heavy vegative growth with good lighting the plants roots typically take up nearly all their nitrogen as nitrate. When a plant takes up Nitrate (NO3-) it releases bicarbonate (HCO3-), which increases the pH in thee nutrient reservoir. When the plant takes up Ammonium (NH4+), it releases a proton (H+) to the soil solution. THis increase of protons concentration which thereby decreases the pH of the nutriemt solution. With that large of a pH change it sounds like your experiencing heavy growt (nitrogen uptake) and have adeqaute enough lo ighting tat you are mainly taking up nitrate as your nitrogen. Hydroponic nutrients have very little buffering capacity because the solution is acid to begin with meaning there is a over abundance of H+ protons in the solution. This low pH means the only Alkaline buffers in the nutrients are bicarbarbonates. We can not add magnesium carbonates as a solid as they do not exist in a solid form. The only wat to get pottasium carbonate in th water is to have it form in the water. That means we need dissolved CO2 to form carbonic acid which then becomes a bicarbonate and then either a potatsium carbonate or a magnesium carbonate. Very little CO2 is in water and it is used up quickly in forming bicarbonates, so we can have very little potassium bicarbonate or magnesium carbonate in excess in our water at low a pH below 7.5. We can not add it to the reservoir in excess as we we are limited in what wecan have in the reservoir by the pH we maintain and the amount the water can hold at the low pH. If we add to much it just raise the pH above the desired 5.8 we usually shoot for. So when someone like Uncle Ben tells you to add magnesium bicarbonate or potasium bicarbonate ask them where they buy theirs. Some facts abouthydro just are unfixable. Buffering is pretty much an unfixable problem.


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## Delo (Feb 22, 2010)

snutter said:


> this is NOT correct.
> 
> In a healthy hydro system, the pH should not be "jumping" up each day as you mention. And you most definitely should not have to be adding pH down every day. In fact, you really don't want to have to much pH down in your nutrient solution if possible.
> 
> ...


Im using foxfarm GrowBig and TigerBloom for flowering.
as far as PPM. i have no idea, i dont even have the meter. i plan on getting one off ebay soon.
She has bin in the hydro system for about almost 3 weeks.
i built my hydro system out of the black 5gallon bucket with a white lid. (i covered it up with foil all over, even over the hydrotons so no light will get in.)
i drilled little hole on the side where i can put the tube through, and i covered the whole and the tube together with foil.
and for my pump i am using the ones from the hydro store. you can control how much bubbles you want.
for lights...as of right now ive bin using HPS but i just ordered the T5s from ebay.
my grow med. is rockwool. and no drip system. the water comes up half an inch into the net pot.
and for the last question. im using tap water from my bath.


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## kabona (Feb 22, 2010)

Delo said:


> Im using foxfarm GrowBig and TigerBloom for flowering.
> as far as PPM. i have no idea, i dont even have the meter. i plan on getting one off ebay soon.
> She has bin in the hydro system for about almost 3 weeks.
> i built my hydro system out of the black 5gallon bucket with a white lid. (i covered it up with foil all over, even over the hydrotons so no light will get in.)
> ...


 
i use tap water (was using distilled... getting r/o in a few weeks).... ph jumps around for the first couple days then stays steady... you dont want water out of your water heater though, apparently through my own research you should not even drink hot water from your faucet because it contains to many contamanents from sitting in your water heater... major one being lead..... put cold tap water only in ... (but dont forget, too cold of water could freak out your plants and might not give you the best results so maybe let it sit till it gets closer to room temp or something) 



also you should let your tap water sit for about 12 hours to let some chlorine evaporate before feeding your plants with it


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## Jonus (Feb 22, 2010)

When roots are small and undeveloped, most water tends to be consumed or evaporated (as in the case with lots of bubblers) than nutrients consumed, resulting in a small daily rise in pH. Once roots are established then the pH should even out. If after roots become established, the pH starts dropping then that means your plants need more feeding or are getting root bound. If at any point after that the pH begins to rise rapidly then you are looking at possible problems. A fast rise in pH could indicated an algae outbreak. Continual rising pH means plant roots may be diseased or some other issue is stressing the plant causing the roots to consume more water than nutrient...similar to the way cats will eat certain types of grass when they are sick rather than the normal cat food. 

In that case take time to look over the plants especially the roots in hydro for darkened areas. Pythium or root rot as it is mostly called, is a hydro growers worst nightmare. It is a pathogen that affects roots and also part of the lower stem in young plants. If your plants are infected with pythium the roots will slow in their uptake of both water and nutrient. There are a number of pythium treatments available, better to ask your local hydro store for the best product. Look for one that can be used right through the grow rather than the hydrogen peroxide based products which can do more damage than good if used for a long period of time.


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## Delo (Feb 22, 2010)

well i use my cold tap water and let it sit over night with the lid on it so its dark.
so what im getting out of this is it can be alot of things thats going wrong, not necessarily the water coming out of the foset...?


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## golddog (Feb 22, 2010)

"Algae problems will make the ph go up. "Root Rot" meaning caused by bad bacteria or fungi will make your ph go down. Both types of problems will make your roots brown and dead."

How are your roots?

Pics ?


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## Jonus (Feb 22, 2010)

Delo said:


> well i use my cold tap water and let it sit over night with the lid on it so its dark.
> so what im getting out of this is it can be alot of things thats going wrong, not necessarily the water coming out of the foset...?


Aside from controlling pH and EC, root condition is one of the primary indicators in hydroponics. Preventing pythium is better than dealing with an infestation of it. Ask your local hydro store for a water conditioner that you can add that is safe for use throughout the grow that will prevent pythium type bacterial outbreaks.

So as golddog asked, how are the roots, are they formed properly, or still spindly and young? Are they white or light in color, or do they have dark slimy patches to them? Is there a slight rotting odor when you lift the lid off? Is there obvious signs of algae in the water? That type of thing...


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## fatman7574 (Feb 22, 2010)

Organic nutes are hoorendus to work with in a hydro system. You have warm thenps, huge anounts of bacteria and high DO. What that maens si orgainics in a hydro system is just a sewage treatment plant for a resrvoir. Same conditions , same bacteria, same resulst, Yoou have aerobic (O2 loving) bacteria converting all the putefying partially decomposed organic matter into nirtite, and from nitrite into nitrate. So you have bacteria running the show. Organic fertilzers should be used with organic medias such as soil and coconut fibers not inert hydro unless all the bacterial action has already taken place. However the manafacturers are to cheap to set up aerated tanks for their nutrients so that they can digest the solids and turning all the organic solids so as to be safe for hydro. That and if you use already digested organics in a soil system the organic nitrogen will have already have been converted to nitrate. Nitrate is highly leachable so it will be flushed out of the soil at each watering. So when they sell organic nutrients they are really selling organic nutrients for organic media not hydropooics in inert media. The industry is now called the watering of soil grows with water soluble fertilizers hydro so they can now say all water soluble fertilizers are hydro. The hydo organic formulas however have nutrients that are not all water soluble but just small solids in the water so bacteria have to break them down so the roots can up take them. So in essence when they say it is a hydroponic nutrient they are not being fully honest. As sold it is a nutrient that is maent for organic media. It takes y up to three weeks for the nitrify bateria to conver all the orh ganic solids nitrogen sources into nitrate. Some are up taken as ammonium along the way, but most are converted. You have a sewage soup in your reservoir.


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## Delo (Feb 23, 2010)

golddog said:


> "Algae problems will make the ph go up. "Root Rot" meaning caused by bad bacteria or fungi will make your ph go down. Both types of problems will make your roots brown and dead."
> 
> How are your roots?
> 
> Pics ?


I have no pics now, but ill take some for my next post. dnt have my camera right now.
but anyway, the roots look whitish and theres 3 main long strands. there about 3-4inches long. 
there other smaller roots are still making there way out of the net pot.


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## Silky Shagsalot (Feb 23, 2010)

i agree with fatman, get some chem nutes. also, how many plants are in this system? a small rez, with too many plants equals ph swings. EC goes up, pH goes down = Plants require less nutes
EC goes down, pH goes up = Plants require more Nutes
EC Stable & pH drifting up, = Equalibrium = Good thing!


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## SIV3L (Feb 23, 2010)

Im going to jump in and say as long as you check roots daily and nothing smells bad or looks slimy the PH will tend to jump around. If you feel you need to lower or raise PH you should do it slowly about 1ml per day. The plants are going to grow how they grow, but making huge changes in PH to try and keep it at a certain point messes up things imho.


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## Silky Shagsalot (Feb 23, 2010)

agreed siv3l, never chase ph...


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## Delo (Feb 23, 2010)

Silky Shagsalot said:


> agreed siv3l, never chase ph...


so then what do i do? just leave it alone?


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## fatman7574 (Feb 23, 2010)

Always adjust pH after each water top of at a minimum. Always top off you water every day. If you can afford it always use a pH controller so the pH never fluctuates beyond 0.05 pH points. pH is an much more important parameter to maintain than nutrient EC. All pH changes effect nutrient availability chemically, EC is only an indication of the amoun of electrical conductivity of the saly ts in the tank. Unless your EC is really low or really high EC really does not effect the plants ability to obtain its nutrient needs near as much as the pH efects that ability. Adding complete nutrients is not a safe way to adjust the pH. Phosphoric acid or Nitric acid for lowering the Ph or and Potassium hydroxide for raising the pH are safe methods.


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## bran1981 (Feb 23, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Always adjust pH after each water top of at a minimum. Always top off you water every day. If you can afford it always use a pH controller so the pH never fluctuates beyond 0.05 pH points. pH is an much more important parameter to maintain than nutrient EC. All pH changes effect nutrient availability chemically, EC is only an indication of the amoun of electrical conductivity of the saly ts in the tank. Unless your EC is really low or really high EC really does not effect the plants ability to obtain its nutrient needs near as much as the pH efects that ability. Adding complete nutrients is not a safe way to adjust the pH. Phosphoric acid or Nitric acid for lowering the Ph or and Potassium hydroxide for raising the pH are safe methods.


Hey fatman, would this be a good controller? http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idProduct=AM1311&tab=1 Was also wondering how they accually adjust the ph, as in what does it use to adjust it?


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## fatman7574 (Feb 23, 2010)

bran1981 said:


> Hey fatman, would this be a good controller? http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idProduct=AM1311&tab=1 Was also wondering how they accually adjust the ph, as in what does it use to adjust it?


I will send you a link by PM for a much, much better industrial quality one for a much lower cost. You might have to buy a rebuild kit for the industrial grade probe but that is only about $40. The probe alone uis worth retail 4 times what the other entire controller cost. It is an older unit with a dial rather than a digital scrren and it is definitely bigger , but is is laboratory grade built for industrial use. Grab it quick or I wil buy it as the person obviously has no idea of its value.


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## dopeweed (Mar 19, 2015)

fatman7574 said:


> Plants have different uptakes of nutrients at different time so with a mj formulation nutrient fertilizer containing principlally nitrate nirogen and less than 15% of its total nitrogen as ammonium nitrogen the ph is controlled by the nitrogen form that is atken up by the plants. During time of heavy vegative growth with good lighting the plants roots typically take up nearly all their nitrogen as nitrate. When a plant takes up Nitrate (NO3-) it releases bicarbonate (HCO3-), which increases the pH in thee nutrient reservoir. When the plant takes up Ammonium (NH4+), it releases a proton (H+) to the soil solution. THis increase of protons concentration which thereby decreases the pH of the nutriemt solution. With that large of a pH change it sounds like your experiencing heavy growt (nitrogen uptake) and have adeqaute enough lo ighting tat you are mainly taking up nitrate as your nitrogen. Hydroponic nutrients have very little buffering capacity because the solution is acid to begin with meaning there is a over abundance of H+ protons in the solution. This low pH means the only Alkaline buffers in the nutrients are bicarbarbonates. We can not add magnesium carbonates as a solid as they do not exist in a solid form. The only wat to get pottasium carbonate in th water is to have it form in the water. That means we need dissolved CO2 to form carbonic acid which then becomes a bicarbonate and then either a potatsium carbonate or a magnesium carbonate. Very little CO2 is in water and it is used up quickly in forming bicarbonates, so we can have very little potassium bicarbonate or magnesium carbonate in excess in our water at low a pH below 7.5. We can not add it to the reservoir in excess as we we are limited in what wecan have in the reservoir by the pH we maintain and the amount the water can hold at the low pH. If we add to much it just raise the pH above the desired 5.8 we usually shoot for. So when someone like Uncle Ben tells you to add magnesium bicarbonate or potasium bicarbonate ask them where they buy theirs. Some facts abouthydro just are unfixable. Buffering is pretty much an unfixable problem.


Excellent description...just what I was looking for!
I understand then that adding nitric acid would be a sensible solution to drop the pH, too much phosphoric acid would upset the nitrate ratio. Am I on the right lines?

I also have some calcium chloride and magnesium sulphate. Could I use either of those to help buffering?


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## churchhaze (Mar 21, 2015)

dopeweed said:


> Excellent description...just what I was looking for!
> I understand then that adding nitric acid would be a sensible solution to drop the pH, too much phosphoric acid would upset the nitrate ratio. Am I on the right lines?
> 
> I also have some calcium chloride and magnesium sulphate. Could I use either of those to help buffering?


None of those chemicals will really help to buffer the pH, except for phosphoric acid, which is a weak acid.

You can build a buffer using either a strong acid and weak base, or a weak acid and a strong base.

Phosphoric acid + potassium hydroxide is one of the only viable buffers that can be effectively used in hydro. Monopotassium phosphate by itself also has decent buffering capacity because it still has another H to be dissociated.

H3PO4 would become KH2PO4, then KHPO4.







Carbonate buffers are another, but carbonate levels can not be too high, so buffering capacity potential is limited.


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## 70's natureboy (Mar 21, 2015)

Good nutes will keep your ph stable. When the plants have eaten a good part of the nutes the ph will rise which is all normal. I rarely check ph and when I do it is still usually spot on a week after mixing. This is with either GH or Dynagro


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## dopeweed (Mar 22, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> None of those chemicals will really help to buffer the pH, except for phosphoric acid, which is a weak acid.
> 
> You can build a buffer using either a strong acid and weak base, or a weak acid and a strong base.
> 
> ...


Thanks for reply! I have both of the these chemicals. I'm suffering from a huge ph increase due to (possibly due to bacterial action after a fungus gnat infestation and cannazym breaking roots down).

If the the ph is going up, due to nitrates being taken up, even tho it might be possible to buffer using these chemicals it may be worth keeping an eye on it in order to provide the additional nitrates required.

Thanks again for such an informative and useful reply!


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## HempletonState (Mar 22, 2015)

dopeweed said:


> Thanks for reply! I have both of the these chemicals. I'm suffering from a huge ph increase due to (possibly due to bacterial action after a fungus gnat infestation and cannazym breaking roots down).
> 
> If the the ph is going up, due to nitrates being taken up, even tho it might be possible to buffer using these chemicals it may be worth keeping an eye on it in order to provide the additional nitrates required.
> 
> Thanks again for such an informative and useful reply!


I would see this happen occasionally until I switched to using RO water. If you use RO then you can purchase ph stabilizer which keeps the ph perfectly steady throughout the week


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## WeedFreak78 (Mar 23, 2015)

fatman7574 said:


> Always adjust pH after each water top of at a minimum. Always top off you water every day. If you can afford it always use a pH controller so the pH never fluctuates beyond 0.05 pH points. pH is an much more important parameter to maintain than nutrient EC. All pH changes effect nutrient availability chemically, EC is only an indication of the amoun of electrical conductivity of the saly ts in the tank. Unless your EC is really low or really high EC really does not effect the plants ability to obtain its nutrient needs near as much as the pH efects that ability. Adding complete nutrients is not a safe way to adjust the pH. Phosphoric acid or Nitric acid for lowering the Ph or and Potassium hydroxide for raising the pH are safe methods.


Are you saying ph should be kept within .05 of your initial set point, so if you want 5.8 your range is 5.75-5.85? The more i read the more i see a recommendation to allow a ph swing from about 5.8 an 6.2 before readjusting, which provides a better range for nutrient uptake, seeing how some are more avail at 5.8 and some are more avail towards the 6.2 range. I could see a *.5* range, which would cover 5.8-6.3.


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## NVGrower (Jan 6, 2016)

I've been chasing my pH too. Plants are only a week old & 3 days and changed the res the first time 3 days ago. I've read that you shouldn't add much pH down. But my opinion you must keep it down in the 5.5 to 6.4 range (5.8 average) so you new plants can get the nutrients they need. The vast majority of the nutrients your plant needs get locked out below and above 5.8

So you must keep the pH low otherwise your just dumping nutrients in your tub and your plants not able to even eat them.


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## jimmy311 (Feb 28, 2016)

snutter said:


> this is NOT correct.
> 
> In a healthy hydro system, the pH should not be "jumping" up each day as you mention. And you most definitely should not have to be adding pH down every day. In fact, you really don't want to have to much pH down in your nutrient solution if possible.
> 
> ...


Shit mine does too


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## HydroRed (Feb 28, 2016)

Best advice I can give is run your ph a tad lower with the expectation of it rising if you know its going to creep up. This creates a "swing" allowing the plant to hit the perfect range for every nutrient and mineral across the board as it swings up. Example: You set your ph to 5.2 then over the next 4-5 days it creeps up to 6.0 - 6.3 you have effectively crated the ideal ph for nutrient uptake for every basic and essential nutrient & mineral in hydroponics. Once the ph hits 6.0 - 6.3 after 4-5 days (or however long yours takes), adjust it back down to a 5.2 ph & do it all over again. Me being a visual kinda guy, I attached a chart to help anyone who might not understand why this is a useful practice in hydroponics.


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## jimmy311 (Feb 28, 2016)

.more water less nutes?No chart needed..i had a air stone in my resi told to run without it for 2-ddays..problem was i was running organic nutes made for soil..look at my journal. Ej grow is not for nutes..plus IM using bennies..i heard chemical nutes kill em? A it creeps up to to 7 in a day


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## jimmy311 (Feb 28, 2016)

HydroRed said:


> Best advice I can give is run your ph a tad lower with the expectation of it rising if you know its going to creep up. This creates a "swing" allowing the plant to hit the perfect range for every nutrient and mineral across the board as it swings up. Example: You set your ph to 5.2 then over the next 4-5 days it creeps up to 6.0 - 6.3 you have effectively crated the ideal ph for nutrient uptake for every basic and essential nutrient & mineral in hydroponics. Once the ph hits 6.0 - 6.3 after 4-5 days (or however long yours takes), adjust it back down to a 5.2 ph & do it all over again. Me being a visual kinda guy, I attached a chart to help anyone who might not understand why this is a useful practice in hydroponics.
> View attachment 3618784


That's what i do but it climbs fast?


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## Budley Doright (Feb 28, 2016)

What's your Res temp. I would be very concerned about what's going on in your root zone. Your roots should look like this and not like this


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## HydroRed (Feb 28, 2016)

Get away from the organics unless you have whats needed to combat the issues that come with running organics in hydro. If you are using organics with tap water you kill off all of the beneficials as soon as you mix it into the tap water which basically renders the organics useless immediately. Then you just have a swampy sewer in your res. When you get the Foxfarm Grow Big, make sure you get the hydroponic formula. As for your P&K I'd suggest Humboldt Nutrients "Ginormous" brand. I made the same mistake yrs ago and mistakenly bought the soil "Grow Big" line and had huge flucuations in my ph. I believe it has buffers in it designed for hydro that help with ph balance to avoid such large swings in such a short period.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 5, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> That's what i do but it climbs fast?


Im there with u brother....


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## bdt1981 (Mar 5, 2016)

You know i dont have tons of expirence with hydro, 2010-2013 ebb and flo, just picked back upwith an aeroflo2 36. And seems like the ph always went up. I know today it is raising fast like drop to 5.8 and by next day its at 6.2ish i dont really hit it with down until 6.5 then back to 5.8 to wait til it gets back up. 
I dont know if i ever have saw a stable ph for long. I also dont see any deficiencies with the plants. I guess there could be alge but i dont see any. I didnt complely drain my res when i changed nutes. Less than a half gallon of old nutes remain in the bottom and to much trouble getting it all.
Hard to believe the guy who uses 16gallons of nutrient and only adjusts the ph 1 time and it stays there... real hard, like almost borderline bullshit. But i cant know for sure so i wont say anything.. 
More root the faster the ph rises in my expirence.


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## Steve Man (Mar 5, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> You know i dont have tons of expirence with hydro, 2010-2013 ebb and flo, just picked back upwith an aeroflo2 36. And seems like the ph always went up. I know today it is raising fast like drop to 5.8 and by next day its at 6.2ish i dont really hit it with down until 6.5 then back to 5.8 to wait til it gets back up.
> I dont know if i ever have saw a stable ph for long. I also dont see any deficiencies with the plants. I guess there could be alge but i dont see any. I didnt complely drain my res when i changed nutes. Less than a half gallon of old nutes remain in the bottom and to much trouble getting it all.
> Hard to believe the guy who uses 16gallons of nutrient and only adjusts the ph 1 time and it stays there... real hard, like almost borderline bullshit. But i cant know for sure so i wont say anything..
> More root the faster the ph rises in my expirence.


This was my thought exactly


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> You know i dont have tons of expirence with hydro, 2010-2013 ebb and flo, just picked back upwith an aeroflo2 36. And seems like the ph always went up. I know today it is raising fast like drop to 5.8 and by next day its at 6.2ish i dont really hit it with down until 6.5 then back to 5.8 to wait til it gets back up.
> I dont know if i ever have saw a stable ph for long. I also dont see any deficiencies with the plants. I guess there could be alge but i dont see any. I didnt complely drain my res when i changed nutes. Less than a half gallon of old nutes remain in the bottom and to much trouble getting it all.
> Hard to believe the guy who uses 16gallons of nutrient and only adjusts the ph 1 time and it stays there... real hard, like almost borderline bullshit. But i cant know for sure so i wont say anything..
> More root the faster the ph rises in my expirence.


Actually I'm one if those guys lol. When I refill my Res I add 30 mil of down and then check it the next morning and if needed I adjust and that's it, it stays there unless there are root issues. I change the Res's every week btw. I know when I first started I was chasing ph but was running air stones and adding a bunch of stuff, I was also running a no chilled, sterile Res. Not sure if any of this has a bearing on ph but now it does stay pretty stable. If I'm lyin I'm dyin lol.


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## Joedank (Mar 5, 2016)

Delo said:


> well i made my hydro system. looks nice and good. but every day the PH level jumps up and i gotta keep adding more PH down to level it out. anyone know why this keeps happening? and how to make it stop?


ever try Ksil ? potassium silicate?? it is known to stablize ph for log duration . it is very basic but 1ml/ gal of dyagro protec plus normal ph dwn or up ..... lots of threads an testing of it ..


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## jimmy311 (Mar 5, 2016)

HydroRed said:


> Best advice I can give is run your ph a tad lower with the expectation of it rising if you know its going to creep up. This creates a "swing" allowing the plant to hit the perfect range for every nutrient and mineral across the board as it swings up. Example: You set your ph to 5.2 then over the next 4-5 days it creeps up to 6.0 - 6.3 you have effectively crated the ideal ph for nutrient uptake for every basic and essential nutrient & mineral in hydroponics. Once the ph hits 6.0 - 6.3 after 4-5 days (or however long yours takes), adjust it back down to a 5.2 ph & do it all over again. Me being a visual kinda guy, I attached a chart to help anyone who might not understand why this is a useful practice in hydroponics.
> View attachment 3618784


I had algea and orgains nutes in aero system


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## jimmy311 (Mar 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> What's your Res temp. I would be very concerned about what's going on in your root zone. Your roots should look like this View attachment 3619011and not like this View attachment 3619013


 Fn algea


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## jimmy311 (Mar 5, 2016)

NVGrower said:


> I've been chasing my pH too. Plants are only a week old & 3 days and changed the res the first time 3 days ago. I've read that you shouldn't add much pH down. But my opinion you must keep it down in the 5.5 to 6.4 range (5.8 average) so you new plants can get the nutrients they need. The vast majority of the nutrients your plant needs get locked out below and above 5.8
> 
> So you must keep the pH low otherwise your just dumping nutrients in your tub and your plants not able to even eat them.


Check for light leaks and algea etc. I had it..cleaning it today .scratching buckets a Lil with scrubby pad..sand paper or a Brillo pad will work..lightly with Brillo and don't get rough paper if u do or got rough shit be easy sand lightly..paint matte or flat black..then check line water and air..make sure u don't get light thru test with light or flash light..once u see no light thru the buckets check and wrapped lines or buy black..put together then u should be good..I was putting a shit load of pH down..noone said hey algae makes ur pH shoot up...or I would a known...so hope this helps..if u can't afford or lk me couldn't find any black shit jus do what I did..if u need any help pm me..


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## jimmy311 (Mar 5, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> You know i dont have tons of expirence with hydro, 2010-2013 ebb and flo, just picked back upwith an aeroflo2 36. And seems like the ph always went up. I know today it is raising fast like drop to 5.8 and by next day its at 6.2ish i dont really hit it with down until 6.5 then back to 5.8 to wait til it gets back up.
> I dont know if i ever have saw a stable ph for long. I also dont see any deficiencies with the plants. I guess there could be alge but i dont see any. I didnt complely drain my res when i changed nutes. Less than a half gallon of old nutes remain in the bottom and to much trouble getting it all.
> Hard to believe the guy who uses 16gallons of nutrient and only adjusts the ph 1 time and it stays there... real hard, like almost borderline bullshit. But i cant know for sure so i wont say anything..
> More root the faster the ph rises in my expirence.


Its white PVC fence post?? Paint that shit bro.. Wanna test it? Put a light inside or flash light..never leave old nutes. If so try to dilute it bro.. Doesn't hurt to dump 4-5 gallons in it to get most the BS out. U could have algea from that and light..algea loves old nutes and light.. Don't believe me.I'll show u..I been spending all damn day cleaning scrubbing bleaching(very lightly due to it leaves toxic residue. Bit imma wipe it after words with rag and h2o2.. Then dry it with rag..if I feel residue I'll get some rubbing alcohol.. It evaporates..no residue..
But shit I flushed cleaned scrubbed rinsed scrubbed washed then repeated a bunch of times... If undont wanna go thru that..get a built right system or pm me..I can build u one or show u.. U pay for shipping tho..lol anyone need help let me know..I'm not a pro but I been thru every bad situation and its only my 3rd year in hydro..lol 
But hey I'm learning fn fast..lol 
Never use organics in a aero sys LOL for future reference.. Lmao
I got other tips also but I'd spend all night typing it..lol.. Oh I'm still leaning u don't get it perfect in one night.. And yes if u do everything 100% correct u prolly don't need to pH. Especially if urva pro..lol
U put in ur nutes in water PhD already.. No algea or anything bad shooting pH up..and u top off lk u should I think its possible not to pH .now idk about the whole grow but if using Ro water and the right nutes that won't raise pH or have buffers in them already it will never rise unless they drink a lot and u don't top off with water lk u should.causing it to rise and picking the right nutes..etc alota varibles..
But after a few runs ul get better at it..cant wait to get everything light proof and stopped using organic nutes..so I'll post another blog..for u guys who are going thru the hell I went thru.. Let's say I'm passing the buck..passing it forward..so if I help u in any way shape or form do me the favor of helping the next person..doesn't matter if otsva old lady crossing the street.. Let's make the world a better place.. Ty and god bless..

Ps srry for the letter..lol just tryna help my fellow growers cuz here at riu were family..


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## jimmy311 (Mar 5, 2016)

Light and old nutes(organic at that) FD me all up.. 
Now I'm painting buckets black.. I thought blue dosent let blue light in..was wrong..I don't know how it don't grow with the blue hydro level/sight hose they sale..hmmm..lol I heard home depot got buckets cheap? Anyone can confirm that?? Lol Lowes sucks


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## bdt1981 (Mar 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Actually I'm one if those guys lol. When I refill my Res I add 30 mil of down and then check it the next morning and if needed I adjust and that's it, it stays there unless there are root issues. I change the Res's every week btw. I know when I first started I was chasing ph but was running air stones and adding a bunch of stuff, I was also running a no chilled, sterile Res. Not sure if any of this has a bearing on ph but now it does stay pretty stable. If I'm lyin I'm dyin lol.


Thst would be nice. Hats off to you, ill take your word for it but cant vouch that its true without seeing it.i may have a few slimy places on a couple sites but not many. They started on the clone machine. Pinched what i saw off Keep my res on 63f artica chiller pumped straight thru the titanimum exchanger so its not a temp issue and plants are doing crazy good. Im very ompressed with the growth and i have harvested 64 clones nearly .75 oz each on a 4x4 ebb and flo. These are going to kill the yield of the 64 back in 2012 and there is only 36. Well a few laggers in there so they probably going to get grown over. Sorry for poor quality pix from earlier today.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 5, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> Thst would be nice. Hats off to you, ill take your word for it but cant vouch that its true without seeing it.i may have a few slimy places on a couple sites but not many. They started on the clone machine. Pinched what i saw off Keep my res on 63f artica chiller pumped straight thru the titanimum exchanger so its not a temp issue and plants are doing crazy good. Im very ompressed with the growth and i have harvested 64 clones nearly .75 oz each on a 4x4 ebb and flo. These are going to kill the yield of the 64 back in 2012 and there is only 36. Well a few laggers in there so they probably going to get grown over. Sorry for poor quality pix from earlier today.View attachment 3624408


Feb 23rd


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## bdt1981 (Mar 5, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> Feb 23rd


March 3rd


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## bdt1981 (Mar 5, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> Its white PVC fence post?? Paint that shit bro.. Wanna test it? Put a light inside or flash light..never leave old nutes. If so try to dilute it bro.. Doesn't hurt to dump 4-5 gallons in it to get most the BS out. U could have algea from that and light..algea loves old nutes and light.. Don't believe me.I'll show u..I been spending all damn day cleaning scrubbing bleaching(very lightly due to it leaves toxic residue. Bit imma wipe it after words with rag and h2o2.. Then dry it with rag..if I feel residue I'll get some rubbing alcohol.. It evaporates..no residue..
> But shit I flushed cleaned scrubbed rinsed scrubbed washed then repeated a bunch of times... If undont wanna go thru that..get a built right system or pm me..I can build u one or show u.. U pay for shipping tho..lol anyone need help let me know..I'm not a pro but I been thru every bad situation and its only my 3rd year in hydro..lol
> But hey I'm learning fn fast..lol
> Never use organics in a aero sys LOL for future reference.. Lmao
> ...


Their not actually fence posts. The rails are pretty thickish i dont think light is getting thru, possible tho. I use future harvest development, holland secret, cali magic and hygrozyme. The final product is very clean looking nutrient, i dont think ill ever change that. Organics and hydroponics to me is an oxymoron.... 5hey dont belong in the same chapter. I had a partner that thought since the hydro store owner said tea is good he wanted to use ot. Absolutely no positive anything pain in the ass to clean ur res tho


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## jimmy311 (Mar 5, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> Their not actually fence posts. The rails are pretty thickish i dont think light is getting thru, possible tho. I use future harvest development, holland secret, cali magic and hygrozyme. The final product is very clean looking nutrient, i dont think ill ever change that. Organics and hydroponics to me is an oxymoron.... 5hey dont belong in the same chapter. I had a partner that thought since the hydro store owner said tea is good he wanted to use ot. Absolutely no positive anything pain in the ass to clean ur res tho


Yea MF did me lk that too!! Lmao 
But I found out there is a way ..but I'm not tryna soon..
Lol
Word is..to do organics in hydro u gotta hit roots with water or a dwc or nft..but they trick is to pour ur organics nute solution slow in the media I'm guessing coco in a coco pot or similar.the bacteria and enzymes mycos will go to work..but Put a layer of coco under the coco pot first or rockwool slab whatever.. Its to soak the over flow if u water too much.. If sum drops In the water its OK. Its deluted.. But that's my understanding.. I did it all wrong...lmao
Made the tea put it in my resi and bubbled it then fed..shit I gotta say they loved it..till I got the slime and algea ( my fault my shit wasn't light proof ..hrs later I jus got done painting them..took a shower still ain't cleand an wiped them out for the last time..my plants roots are getting dry and brown even tho I been spraying with water.. Smh 
Oh well if anything I'll start over...I know I'm light proofed now..I'll tell u..the only thing saving u is the chiller.. Bad shit don't lk cold water.. But take a flash light..a bright led one.. Put it in the inside when its dark..tell me if u see light..I thought the same cuz I had thick blue buckets thinkn the blue light won't go thru....shit..boy I was wrong... I'm jus tryna help u bro...if u didn't have no algea ur plants would prolly be double as the algea eats food and all the oxygen..


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## Budley Doright (Mar 6, 2016)

Feb 13  Feb 24


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## bdt1981 (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 3624681 Feb 13 View attachment 3624686 Feb 24


Nice mine would look a lot different but i lolliepop every other day to keep 2 sets of leaves. They went from 4 inches to some over 18. My dates are messed up on pix here is yesterday


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## Budley Doright (Mar 6, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> View attachment 3624783
> Nice mine would look a lot different but i lolliepop every other day to keep 2 sets of leaves. They went from 4 inches to some over 18. My dates are messed up on pix here is yesterday


Ya I probably should have done a bit of trimming as well but have been removing the shade leaves that are covering bud sites. This strain seems to grow some pretty big buds off the lower side branching so I don't lollipop but its only the second run and just getting to know it. They are growing an inch a day on average.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Ya I probably should have done a bit of trimming as well but have been removing the shade leaves that are covering bud sites. This strain seems to grow some pretty big buds off the lower side branching so I don't lollipop but its only the second run and just getting to know it. They are growing an inch a day on average.


How far apart and do you know why one side is bigger than the other? It is crazy how fast they gro. Mine have been 12/12 since 5he first day in the rails


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## Budley Doright (Mar 6, 2016)

Yes I do know why, their two different pheno's that I got mixed up. Those pics are a couple of weeks old now and I cut the tops off the tall ones, lst'd them and cloned them for outdoor use, they are amazing plants re side branch growth as well. But yup, proper prior planning would have been good lol. And they should have been under 12/12 a couple of weeks ago but I'm waiting for the moms to finish to make room . They're about 14" apart and was going to keep the 4 best but they're all just perfect, didn't have the heart to kill em.


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## jimmy311 (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 3624681 Feb 13 View attachment 3624686 Feb 24


Wow..I'm doing sumn wrong


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## Budley Doright (Mar 6, 2016)

^^^^ that's what I thought too lol. I just added a chiller and started using OregonismXL and Vitanimo with my cheap no name nutes. Seems to be making a huge difference. I replaced hydroguard with the OregonismXL because of cost.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Yes I do know why, their two different pheno's that I got mixed up. Those pics are a couple of weeks old now and I cut the tops off the tall ones, lst'd them and cloned them for outdoor use, they are amazing plants re side branch growth as well. But yup, proper prior planning would have been good lol. And they should have been under 12/12 a couple of weeks ago but I'm waiting for the moms to finish to make room . They're about 14" apart and was going to keep the 4 best but they're all just perfect, didn't have the heart to kill em.


ya that blows. out of 36 i have 4 strains all mixed up only 2 of 1 strain and a few of another mostly white alien and grapegod. i am starting to tell the strainsapart but i could be wrong. it has happened b4. im hoping i have a worthy 1 or 2 to keep as. here is today and seems like my ph is locked at 6.4.... it has stopped there so far all day today???? i am using rockwool for cuttings, but i didnt see any alge and my ppm is isnt chaing but 10+-


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## bdt1981 (Mar 6, 2016)

see how dark it is down that rail? im sure no light gets in as long as the net pots are pushed down snug, oops screen on laptop was at a wrong angle,lol not ad dark as i thought it looked.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 3624681 Feb 13 View attachment 3624686 Feb 24


14inches damn how big of net pot and neoprene u got?


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## Budley Doright (Mar 7, 2016)

6" net pots and no neoprene. I wish I had an answer for you, and yes I would have said root issues but they look good. Before the chiller I think I was always on the verge of rot but here's a pic of the roots 2.5 weeks after the cut  Are you using air pumps in your Res? I found when I first started using air stones my ph was rising and I have ditched them.


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> View attachment 3625278 View attachment 3625274 View attachment 3625275 View attachment 3625277 View attachment 3625278 View attachment 3625274 View attachment 3625275 View attachment 3625277
> ya that blows. out of 36 i have 4 strains all mixed up only 2 of 1 strain and a few of another mostly white alien and grapegod. i am starting to tell the strainsapart but i could be wrong. it has happened b4. im hoping i have a worthy 1 or 2 to keep as. here is today and seems like my ph is locked at 6.4.... it has stopped there so far all day today???? i am using rockwool for cuttings, but i didnt see any alge and my ppm is isnt chaing but 10+-



Its honestly hard to tell lk that..I thought the same way when I looked in my buckets( by pulling up.pot looking inside..it looked dark to me...but buddy said to use my led flashlight and shine it on inside or outside (outside if its a huge maglight..but do it when lights off.. 
Send pix and tell us what u see


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> 6" net pots and no neoprene. I wish I had an answer for you, and yes I would have said root issues but they look good. Before the chiller I think I was always on the verge of rot but here's a pic of the roots 2.5 weeks after the cut View attachment 3625503 Are you using air pumps in your Res? I found when I first started using air stones my ph was rising and I have ditched them.



Really?? I heard that from ppl and companies recommend it


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## bdt1981 (Mar 7, 2016)

Ya i put one


Budley Doright said:


> 6" net pots and no neoprene. I wish I had an answer for you, and yes I would have said root issues but they look good. Before the chiller I think I was always on the verge of rot but here's a pic of the roots 2.5 weeks after the cut View attachment 3625503 Are you using air pumps in your Res? I found when I first started using air stones my ph was rising and I have ditched them.


Ya. I guess really they say u dont need them with the aeroflo because of the laser sprayers. I will take it out and see what happens. I did have my feeder pump go out and it was a little while before i got it changed out. Not sure how long exactly. I learned long ago a chiller is key to hydroponics. Any kind imo

Nice ass roots btw bro.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 7, 2016)

Have u 


jimmy311 said:


> Its honestly hard to tell lk that..I thought the same way when I looked in my buckets( by pulling up.pot looking inside..it looked dark to me...but buddy said to use my led flashlight and shine it on inside or outside (outside if its a huge maglight..but do it when lights off..
> Send pix and tell us what u see


Seen the actual aeroflo2 rails in person. That material isnt pvc, its like some thick ass material. Im never there when lights go out ao when im done with this run ill test it for sure. I picked up 4 2.5 ft black plastic tubes i saw them using inside rools of sod. Talk about thich. At least half an inch. What are people using in a round rail system as far as net pot cuz the roundness is kinds difficult


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## Budley Doright (Mar 7, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> Really?? I heard that from ppl and companies recommend it


I shoot a stream of water up into the root chamber and it hits the lid and splashes everywhere causing lots of turbulence and when it drains to Res it's a waterfall so no need for air stones.


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

I gotta vwr temp controller last week for my air temps..but o think its for fluids cuz the control range is -4-140°
Anyway I had a idea to keep my water temps down.. Gotta drinking water cooler/heater and plug it in to my controller ran a pump to it..And put it on top my resi for now to test out..works great for my huge 6 5gal bucket system


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

My chiller/heater(free)
My new C.A.P cycle timer ($10 plus 3$ shipping)
My new controller ($9+4$ shipping)
 
Glad I didn't spend 200-300$$$ lol easier to test and pH my water up here


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## bdt1981 (Mar 7, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> Really?? I heard that from ppl and companies recommend it


in the aeroflo2 design by GH it says there is no need for airstones


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I shoot a stream of water up into the root chamber and it hits the lid and splashes everywhere causing lots of turbulence and when it drains to Res it's a waterfall so no need for air stones.


I got 67¢ sprayer from Lowes..works better then the "hydroponic sprayers" the blue ones..cost lk $9 smh
So I got the old setup in one bucket and new setup in the rest..the Lowes sprayers are adjustable cone spray and can take a part to clean..but didn't have to..and I ran organics(guy said itl work great) idiot!
Lol
But yea the blue sprayers were gunked up had to clean and run paper clip thru em..but not the 67¢ sprayers.. Lol
Hopefully now all black buckets and hoses and chiller with hydroguard my plants should grow fast now instead of a inch a month..LOL


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

In resi or buckets my system a custom aero/rdwc/nft
Ppl say imma have problems 
But its my experiment. Last time I was in a tote and grew monsters...lmao


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## bdt1981 (Mar 7, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I shoot a stream of water up into the root chamber and it hits the lid and splashes everywhere causing lots of turbulence and when it drains to Res it's a waterfall so no need for air stones.


i read a thread somewhere this guy said to run the tubes at half way and point straight down into the water to create bubbles which = o2,,, leave pump on 24/7. i tried it for a day and then thought i should lower them all the way, like the manual says. would kind of be like rdwc maybe rlwc recirculating low water culture... jk, lol... it really is more than a film but not deep water either... im still moving the direction of them because i just didnt see much splashing at any angle


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

That was my Aero/dwc system I built.. Now I combined all of them in my system..I got stones sprayers and circulation in my 6 buckets..now I gotta chiller (was my biggest problem besides algea and clear hoses) so that's kool I got a free chiller.. And now I'm hoping my systems proves them ppl wrong.. Lol


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

What will it hurt to throw a few stones and hi power pump? I did.. But I turned off my resi pumps..let's see..I think my pH went up from algea tho not air stones


bdt1981 said:


> i read a thread somewhere this guy said to run the tubes at half way and point straight down into the water to create bubbles which = o2,,, leave pump on 24/7. i tried it for a day and then thought i should lower them all the way, like the manual says. would kind of be like rdwc maybe rlwc recirculating low water culture... jk, lol... it really is more than a film but not deep water either... im still moving the direction of them because i just didnt see much splashing at any angle


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## bdt1981 (Mar 7, 2016)

the red


jimmy311 said:


> I got 67¢ sprayer from Lowes..works better then the "hydroponic sprayers" the blue ones..cost lk $9 smh
> So I got the old setup in one bucket and new setup in the rest..the Lowes sprayers are adjustable cone spray and can take a part to clean..but didn't have to..and I ran organics(guy said itl work great) idiot!
> Lol
> But yea the blue sprayers were gunked up had to clean and run paper clip thru em..but not the 67¢ sprayers.. Lol
> Hopefully now all black buckets and hoses and chiller with hydroguard my plants should grow fast now instead of a inch a month..LOL


 360 sprayers on ebay like 5$ for 25 blow those lowes sprayers out the water. i thought the 180 lowes spreyers were ok until i got real ones. used on an aeroponic cloner diy


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

I got blue what's the difference? Can u send me a few???


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## bdt1981 (Mar 7, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> What will it hurt to throw a few stones and hi power pump? I did.. But I turned off my resi pumps..let's see..I think my pH went up from algea tho not air stones


from what i understand you can have all that but i wouldnt use more than the 3 part nutes and hydroguard,hygrozyme, ucroots or similar keep a sterile res or with that much o2 shit will gro light tight is key in the under current


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## bdt1981 (Mar 7, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> I got blue what's the difference? Can u send me a few???


180 opposed to 360. check ebay


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> from what i understand you can have all that but i wouldnt use more than the 3 part nutes and hydroguard,hygrozyme, ucroots or similar keep a sterile res or with that much o2 shit will gro light tight is key in the under current


Yea..found out the hard way..lmao


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

Had a septic tank in my room 5' from my bed..lol
 
Don't listen to everyone some ppl wanna see u or hope u do bad or fuck up..and fail.. But I painted em black. Tested with flashlight and sunlight to make sure no light goes thru..then I wrapped em with my custom bubble insulation. To keep em cool and the ir heat off the water then ran black hose. (After 2 days of cleaning and scrubbing rinsing and repeating it 3x lol)
Now I hope I'll never see no algea again till i die..lol


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

Guess it comes down to what u like and need..the tiny sprayer wernt big enuff for this Texan!! Lmfao
 
Cost is higher i cant take them apart or adjust them Plus their a Chinese rip off to me..prolly 1¢ to make 10 and charge us a few bucks..lol
I'll give my money to the local Lowes .lol keep my money in the community and US.plus I hate the labor to build and clean compared to the 67¢ Lowes kind.. Lk I said itz all on what u like and need


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## bdt1981 (Mar 7, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> Had a septic tank in my room 5' from my bed..lol
> View attachment 3625891
> Don't listen to everyone some ppl wanna see u or hope u do bad or fuck up..and fail.. But I painted em black. Tested with flashlight and sunlight to make sure no light goes thru..then I wrapped em with my custom bubble insulation. To keep em cool and the ir heat off the water then ran black hose.View attachment 3625897 (After 2 days of cleaning and scrubbing rinsing and repeating it 3x lol)
> Now I hope I'll never see no algea again till i die..lol


i would cover the hydroton. light is getting in from there


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

No need for all that PVC and 90s and 2$ three way 90s expensive..I made 3 buckets and said fuck that took that shit back..lmao got my money and got a lot of stuff lol


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

Guess it comes down to what u like and need..the tiny sprayer wernt big enuff for this Texan!! Lmfao
View attachment 3625899 
Cost is hPlus Chinese rip off to me..prolly 1¢ to make 1 and charge us a dollar..lol
I'll give my money to the local Lowes .lol keep my money in the community and US.


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> i would cover the hydroton. light is getting in from there


I did jus now
They were dying yesterday drooping to the ground .standing tall now   I thought they were goners.. They were all lk this poor Lil one..


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## bdt1981 (Mar 7, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> I did jus now
> They were dying yesterday drooping to the ground .standing tall now  View attachment 3625911 I thought they were goners.. They were all lk this poor Lil one..View attachment 3625912


im going to go out on a limb and say either you put that one in to early, or you didnt have the water level high enough. i used the padding they sell for weight room floor for 20$ i got 9 24x24 squares of it and get a lot out of are those seeds or cuttings?


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## jimmy311 (Mar 7, 2016)

Seeds


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## Budley Doright (Mar 8, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> I got 67¢ sprayer from Lowes..works better then the "hydroponic sprayers" the blue ones..cost lk $9 smh
> So I got the old setup in one bucket and new setup in the rest..the Lowes sprayers are adjustable cone spray and can take a part to clean..but didn't have to..and I ran organics(guy said itl work great) idiot!
> Lol
> But yea the blue sprayers were gunked up had to clean and run paper clip thru em..but not the 67¢ sprayers.. Lol
> Hopefully now all black buckets and hoses and chiller with hydroguard my plants should grow fast now instead of a inch a month..LOL


I actually switched back to a basic flood and drain and retired the spray nozzles for this run. I seem to get better growth and once the roots got big it was hard to access the manifold, roots engulfed it lol. The water that floods the root chamber shoots out of a 3/8's nozzle straight up like a garden hose lol. Light I think is a huge factor, I had a slight leak around the lid and roots wouldn't grow out that side of the net pot till I fixed it. I'm moving the tray out to flower this week and will post some pics. As for the PH rising from air stones I have no proof, it could have been something else but I figure if their not needed then that's a bonus .


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## jimmy311 (Mar 8, 2016)

Damn ur up early..lol


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## Budley Doright (Mar 8, 2016)

jimmy311 said:


> Damn ur up early..lol


Been up for an hour . Goin huntin .


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## VegasWinner (Mar 9, 2016)

Bubbling raises PH levels by their very nature. Check and adjust ph levels daily due to use of bubblers. pace.


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## since1991 (Mar 9, 2016)

Its your airpump and airstone making your ph drift from target back to original tap water ph. Research it. Its true. Theres a reaction happening with dissolved oxygen and phos acid.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 13, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I actually switched back to a basic flood and drain and retired the spray nozzles for this run. I seem to get better growth and once the roots got big it was hard to access the manifold, roots engulfed it lol. The water that floods the root chamber shoots out of a 3/8's nozzle straight up like a garden hose lol. Light I think is a huge factor, I had a slight leak around the lid and roots wouldn't grow out that side of the net pot till I fixed it. I'm moving the tray out to flower this week and will post some pics. As for the PH rising from air stones I have no proof, it could have been something else but I figure if their not needed then that's a bonus .


I removed air stones and have found a stable ph that goes up.1 in 2 days i think the airstone thing is golden


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## since1991 (Mar 13, 2016)

Airstones are over suggested in just about any setup besides of course dwc or rdwc which i think you have. Sticking airstones in flood and drain or drip system rez's is not necessary.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 13, 2016)

im doing aeroflo2 36


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## since1991 (Mar 13, 2016)

Dump the aquarium pump and stones. Your creating max dissolved oxygen levels with the spray heads in the tubes.....provided your nutrient solution doesnt get too warm. Keep it cool as possible.


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## since1991 (Mar 13, 2016)

The aeroflo by gh is poorly designed (slightly....its not that bad) by todays standards but back in the day it was the cadillac of systems. Many a cola has been grown in an aeroflo. If it didnt come with a pump and stone theres a good bet it doesnt need one.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Dump the aquarium pump and stones. Your creating max dissolved oxygen levels with the spray heads in the tubes.....provided your nutrient solution doesnt get too warm. Keep it cool as possible.


Until I chilled the Res and insulated the root chamber with my sprayers I was not doing that well, the key to any system is keeping the water chilled IMO. I was growing plants but it was always just on the verge of brown rotting roots.


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## since1991 (Mar 14, 2016)

I have grow in homemade water culture systems in the past...alot. Home made raingutter NFT systems were all the rage in the early to mid nineties. Shitty do it yerself High Times articles were all we had lol. Remote outside the room with tubing reservoirs was the quick fix to warm solution temps. That was the big drawback to those types of hydroponic systems back then. Once solution warmed to grow room heat levels
It was a bitch. D.o. levels fell and pythium and other nasties turned root zone in to a slimy mess.


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## since1991 (Mar 14, 2016)

I remember reading a Growers Edge magazine article back in the day (great frikin mag btw) that said pythium is in just about every room somewhere especially hydro systems but will only breakout if given the right conditions. Warm solution temps with no dissolved oxygen is ground zero for it.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 17, 2016)

Have found the answer to my ph issue.... 3 days running on 6.0 hasnt moved at all


since1991 said:


> Dump the aquarium pump and stones. Your creating max dissolved oxygen levels with the spray heads in the tubes.....provided your nutrient solution doesnt get too warm. Keep it cool as possible.


Wouldnt dream of doing any type of hydro without absolute control of res temp. Not having a chiller would ba a great reason to gro in soil. Chiller is as important as having any system, it was the first thing i got after getting my aeroflo


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## Budley Doright (Mar 17, 2016)

bdt1981 said:


> Have found the answer to my ph issue.... 3 days running on 6.0 hasnt moved at all
> 
> Wouldnt dream of doing any type of hydro without absolute control of res temp. Not having a chiller would ba a great reason to gro in soil. Chiller is as important as having any system, it was the first thing i got after getting my aeroflo


Very wise move! Wish I would have done that.


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## since1991 (Nov 4, 2016)

I let all the true water based hydroponic systems go a long time ago. Seemed like i was always chained to my house and grow. Always anticipating something going wrong. Once up and running and dialed...my dwc nft and aero dealys were very nice. Veg growth was FAST. But man...they were definitely not low maintenance systems to run. If something went wrong...plants suffered in a hurry. I went to coco coir awhile back and got that medium safety buffer back. Consistency every since. And with a drip manifold...running a non recirculating system...i havent been worried about my rooms in forever.


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## Budley Doright (Nov 4, 2016)

I was seriously considering doing drain to waste but honestly since the chiller went in I don't have to worry much other than a pump quiting but before the chiller yes it was a chore to keep things stable. Now I don't really do much in between refills other than move the light higher . I'm still thinking of changing but only to get away from the trays to allow more flexibility in moving the plants to stagger timing. I can go away for a week at a time and yes I still worry but needlessly so far . I still rely on outdoor grows to fill the coffers and indoors for strain hunting and a hobby .


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## since1991 (Nov 4, 2016)

Back then....we didnt have readily available chillers. Like ones you can just go to the grow shop and buy. I had friends that tried all the whacky ideas like car radiators and what not. Lots of growroom equipment nowadays just wasnt out yet. Or if it was...very expensive. The first co2 ppm controllers were in the thousands. Lol. I remember when they first came out. CAP and Green Air Products. We all jist used timers and analog environment controllers that just sucked. Same with exhaust fans. All we had way back were squirrel cage loud ass blowers. Inline ufo shaped efficent and quiet (less noisy) fans came much later. Tents...digital ballasts. ..charcoal filters. All that stuff was either new and pricey or non existent. Speaking of charcoal filters...back then we had so called "ion fountains". God what a joke those were. And ozone generators that are still available but quircky and retarded in my opinion.


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## Budley Doright (Nov 4, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Back then....we didnt have readily available chillers. Like ones you can just go to the grow shop and buy. I had friends that tried all the whacky ideas like car radiators and what not. Lots of growroom equipment nowadays just wasnt out yet. Or if it was...very expensive. The first co2 ppm controllers were in the thousands. Lol. I remember when they first came out. CAP and Green Air Products. We all jist used timers and analog environment controllers that just sucked. Same with exhaust fans. All we had way back were squirrel cage loud ass blowers. Inline ufo shaped efficent and quiet (less noisy) fans came much later. Tents...digital ballasts. ..charcoal filters. All that stuff was either new and pricey or non existent. Speaking of charcoal filters...back then we had so called "ion fountains". God what a joke those were. And ozone generators that are still available but quircky and retarded in my opinion.


My chiller is a passive type with about 200' of copper tubing coiled under ground (kind of lol) with glycol running, tube in tube exchangers transfer heat from the res to the loops. Works great in the colder months when I'm indoors .


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## big bud 56 (Nov 4, 2016)

Hello,
I use water from the tap since where I live the water coming from my tap is already R/O water.
The city runs an R/O system and it gets filtered before it gets to me.
The only thing I have to do is leave the water sit for a day to let the chlorine evaporate.
The PH is kind of high coming out,around 7.0 so I always PH my water before I flush my hydro system.
I use PH down and get it around 5.5 to 6.5.
Try to PH your water before adding it to your system.


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## OldMedUser (Nov 5, 2016)

big bud 56 said:


> Hello,
> I use water from the tap since where I live the water coming from my tap is already R/O water.
> The city runs an R/O system and it gets filtered before it gets to me.
> The only thing I have to do is leave the water sit for a day to let the chlorine evaporate.
> ...


Dream on. There is no way any city or even a small town uses reverse osmosis to treat municipal water supplies. If you're paying $100/cube then maybe. Cube = 1 cubic meter = 1000L or 264.17USG

PM me the name of your town and I'll tell you what's in your tap water once I see their publicly available reports.

Vancouver, BC has/had some of the best tap water in the world and ranked in the top 5 for decades but I haven't checked in to that for almost 20 years since I moved up north in Alberta. Tap water in town here is 400+ ppm and very high in Na, Fe, Mn along with the Ca/Mg carbonates that make hard water hard. Will totally screw up any plants watered with that crap unless flushed every 5 waterings.

I go buy RO water that tests under 10ppm for all my growing needs and also for drinking and putting thru my $150 BUNN coffee maker that still makes a 12 cup pot in 3 minutes 5 years later. $3/20L jug and worth every penny!


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## big bud 56 (Nov 6, 2016)

OldMedUser said:


> Dream on. There is no way any city or even a small town uses reverse osmosis to treat municipal water supplies. If you're paying $100/cube then maybe. Cube = 1 cubic meter = 1000L or 264.17USG
> 
> PM me the name of your town and I'll tell you what's in your tap water once I see their publicly available reports.
> 
> ...


Since you live in Canada which is a totally different world then the United States then you have no right to say I'm wrong.
I'm not going to pm you anything about where I live,just know that it's in the United states and yes my town has an r/o reclamation plant that gets r/o filtered before it is sent back out.
I would suggest you doing some research on how this is possible while at the same time keeping the cost to do so to a reasonable amount.
you have doubts then research just don't start throwing doubts around.


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## OldMedUser (Nov 6, 2016)

I did go off a little half-cocked or was that half a little-cock. 

If you are sure your town uses RO filtration for your tap water then I'm willing to take your word for it and shouldn't make assumptions.

I have read that they use RO to filter water from de-salination plants as it is much cheaper and less energy intensive than distillation.

I stand corrected.


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## big bud 56 (Nov 6, 2016)

OldMedUser said:


> I did go off a little half-cocked or was that half a little-cock.
> 
> If you are sure your town uses RO filtration for your tap water then I'm willing to take your word for it and shouldn't make assumptions.
> 
> ...


No problem.


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## bryan100030 (Jul 12, 2017)

Hi RIU!!! Iam growing a single Skunk #1 plant under a 600w HID in a 5 gallon bucket DWC system with Lava rock and Rockwool cube. My seed has sprouted 2 days ago and is about 1" tall with its first set of true leafs appearing with White tips, but looks healthy. Currently in a humidity dome on heating mat growing daily and healthy. No nutes used yet except Rapidroot from General Hydroponics (one drop in a gallon). If any one has any tips on growing this strain, such as height, proper ph, and ppm, or even a grow log that was successful, please assist. Thank you all.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 12, 2017)

bryan100030 said:


> Hi RIU!!! Iam growing a single Skunk #1 plant under a 600w HID in a 5 gallon bucket DWC system with Lava rock and Rockwool cube. My seed has sprouted 2 days ago and is about 1" tall with its first set of true leafs appearing with White tips, but looks healthy. Currently in a humidity dome on heating mat growing daily and healthy. No nutes used yet except Rapidroot from General Hydroponics (one drop in a gallon). If any one has any tips on growing this strain, such as height, proper ph, and ppm, or even a grow log that was successful, please assist. Thank you all.


Take off the dome would be my first on the to do list. I've never had good luck with them and there not required. White tips are not a good sign . Perhaps your watering to much maybe.


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## Mohican (Jul 12, 2017)

Post on the 600 Club - they love to help.


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## bryan100030 (Jul 12, 2017)

Mohican said:


> Post on the 600 Club - they love to help.


How do i start my own post? thanks for help, here are a few pics of the baby. other pic is of my professional setup


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## bryan100030 (Jul 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Take off the dome would be my first on the to do list. I've never had good luck with them and there not required. White tips are not a good sign . Perhaps your watering to much maybe.


Last time I had my babie out of the humidity dome, she dried out, I touched her and she broke right in half. This was when I was living up North, Now I live in the South, with a higher natural humidity. So my logical thinking is telling me that it will be ok, but dont want to chance it. You sure its a good idea to remove humidity dome??? Thanks bud!


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## Budley Doright (Jul 12, 2017)

bryan100030 said:


> Last time I had my babie out of the humidity dome, she dried out, I touched her and she broke right in half. This was when I was living up North, Now I live in the South, with a higher natural humidity. So my logical thinking is telling me that it will be ok, but dont want to chance it. You sure its a good idea to remove humidity dome??? Thanks bud!


I've used a dome on seedlings maybe once or twice years ago and my experience was they get to lanky due to the diffused light and moisture. But if your worried leave it, I certainly don't want to be responsible for the death of a baby lol. I do mist my girls when their little sometimes but not a rule. Plants shouldn't dry out without a dome, what's the RH of your room?


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## bryan100030 (Jul 12, 2017)

Thank you Budley for helping out!!! The RH in my tent is 77% and temp is 84. I have removed the dome, as what you stated, seedlings being lanky, is true with mine, and it has had a dome since day one. I will keep it off, and am placeing a fan on it, low setting. what is optimal RH and temp for seedling???


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## bryan100030 (Jul 12, 2017)

Heres another photo, earlier it was standing up straight, when dome was on. About an hour after I took dome off, it is leaning over I believe due to an over water. It seems like it is still doing good/alive, I got the fan set up more in the corner, as far away as possible on low setting. what you guys think???


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## Budget Buds (Jul 12, 2017)

bryan100030 said:


> Heres another photo, earlier it was standing up straight, when dome was on. About an hour after I took dome off, it is leaning over I believe due to an over water. It seems like it is still doing good/alive, I got the fan set up more in the corner, as far away as possible on low setting. what you guys think???View attachment 3977016 View attachment 3977018


It will be fine homes, they or it just has to acclimate to it's environment, EDIT BUDLEY IS CORRECT, NO DOME UNLESS IT'S A CUTTING, A SEEDLING WONT NEED THE SAME HELP A CLONE NEEDS


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## bryan100030 (Jul 12, 2017)

Awesome, I figured the seedling will be fine because Cannabis is a very hardy plant and can survive harsh conditions. She was completely tipped over and just laying on the lava rock due to a couple problems when this seedling sprouted, number 1: it was not planted deep enough and part of the root was emerged from surface. So I covered it with moist pieces of Rockwool cube. Number 2: it had no fan on it its whole 5 day life....I now have put a half of a Rockwool cube around it and is propped up and fan is strengthening the stem. I also filled a spare 5 gallon bucket with water and placed a glass water heating rod to help with humidity, as it dropped to 68%. It is now up to 79% and expect it to raise to atleast 80-90%, with temp of 82F. If any one has any tips on how to do this better, please dont hesitate to respond. Thank you for the help!!!

P.S. how do I hit a "Like" button on someones post if I like it?


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## Budget Buds (Jul 12, 2017)

bryan100030 said:


> Awesome, I figured the seedling will be fine because Cannabis is a very hardy plant and can survive harsh conditions. She was completely tipped over and just laying on the lava rock due to a couple problems when this seedling sprouted, number 1: it was not planted deep enough and part of the root was emerged from surface. So I covered it with moist pieces of Rockwool cube. Number 2: it had no fan on it its whole 5 day life....I now have put a half of a Rockwool cube around it and is propped up and fan is strengthening the stem. I also filled a spare 5 gallon bucket with water and placed a glass water heating rod to help with humidity, as it dropped to 68%. It is now up to 75% and expect it to raise to atleast 77-90%. If any one has any tips on how to do this better, please dont hesitate to respond. Thank you for the help!!!
> 
> P.S. how do I hit a "Like" button on someones post if I like it?


I dont add a fan until at least 7 days, they do have negative pressure from the circulator though, a toothpick will do fine to prop a seedling up till it can do it on it's own, But it's a fine line that common sense will tell you when it can take it, trial and error my friend, I personally dont worry about humidity with anything but flowering plants, any other time usually the rooms humidity will work fine unless you are in a desert or jungle ( 15-70% ) works fine , flowering is another story, any more then 50% and you may see issues arise , as for likes , the bottom right of the post you should see the number, a like and reply button,  Damn I miss that rep button


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## bryan100030 (Jul 12, 2017)

Lol, I don't see a like button, I do see the # button and reply. Well do you think a fan should not be incorporated yet? Till the seedling reaches day 7, or a certain height? Cause I have seen them dry out before, but I doubt that with this girl. She has a powerful air pump blasting bottom of bucket creating humidty and a bucket loaded with heated water. Humidity is now 79% and temp is 82F. Thanks Budget Buds!!!


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## bryan100030 (Jul 12, 2017)

*REPLYING TO MY OWN POST:*

I just checked on her and she is back in action, standing up and the fan is helping it build strength. How do I start my own new thread, and under what category? Hydroponics?


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## Budget Buds (Jul 12, 2017)

bryan100030 said:


> Lol, I don't see a like button, I do see the # button and reply. Well do you think a fan should not be incorporated yet? Till the seedling reaches day 7, or a certain height? Cause I have seen them dry out before, but I doubt that with this girl. She has a powerful air pump blasting bottom of bucket creating humidty and a bucket loaded with heated water. Humidity is now 79% and temp is 82F. Thanks Budget Buds!!!


No sir, do what you think the plant needs, my room will be different from yours unless you live next door to me in northern michigan, I generally let the seedlings get there legs before a fan though, ie a good taproot several inches in length to counteract the force the fan will give it . as for temps. with a dwc you will come into issues with the temp of the nutrient solution's in the bucket, any more then about 70 and you will see slowed growth or root rot ( ask me how i know) eventually , dialing back the light or introducing a chiller or ac is the only way i was able to get it in check, with the less light you will see less yeild. it is a fine fine line getting a room dialed in and to be honest it's why i now run aeroponics ( took me over a year to dial in to a .1 accuracy). Welcome to the game my friend, it's a hobby like anything else and it takes time and effort. you cant like your own posts, only others lol


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## bryan100030 (Jul 12, 2017)

Aeroponics. That is a great method that I have not tried yet, but I would love to try it out some day. Right now Iam fixated on Deep Water Culture. About introducing a fan to the environment, when I did this when I lived in Minnesota, my super lemon haze dried up on like day 2 and I touched it and it broke....While now that I have moved way south, fan should not dry out my baby as humidity is great. Plus, just do what I did, place a bucket full with water and a heating rod in it to produce humidity. Humidity is now at 83% and temp is 82F. 

How do I start my own thread? also, I was not trying to like my own posts, I was trying to like yours, and others, lol. I think it might have something to do with being an established member. Thank for the help bud!!!


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## funnyoldsmoke (Jan 30, 2021)

snutter said:


> this is NOT correct.
> 
> In a healthy hydro system, the pH should not be "jumping" up each day as you mention. And you most definitely should not have to be adding pH down every day. In fact, you really don't want to have to much pH down in your nutrient solution if possible.
> 
> ...


Coco is a hydro medium and I think oh at 6.2 is better then 5.8 I get bigger yields. You say 5.5 I think that’s too low, between 5.8 and 6.2 for hydro does work


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