# Has my cannabis use led to my IBS?



## VolcanoLover (Jul 10, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I've used cannabis for about 15 years and always loved the way it makes me feel and got benefits from using it. About 5 years ago, I got a volcano vaporizer and quit smoking it. My usage did go up because I was hitting the vape all day long instead of smoking. After about 6 months I noticed I was getting IBS symptoms all the time and they got even worse when I didn't vape. I ended up vaping all the time to deal with the discomfort but It never went away. It just masks it a bit when I'm high and comes back with a vengeance every morning after 8 hours or so of sleep.

After putting up with this for ages and trying different diets, doctors tests, hospital xrays etc to no avail I finally found out from some online forums that heavy prolonged cannabis use can cause IBS in some users. I have found about 10 different people who were basically in the same situation as me. They quit cannabis for 2 weeks and got better. I found guy who said it took 3 months but he said he developed SIBO. I've had the test for SIBO and I don't have it but despite this I've quit for 6 weeks now and my symptoms have only got worse.

I'm not sure how common this situation is. I've never met anyone that this has happened to and the posts on fourms I found were all in only the last 2 years. I'm trying to find out if any others have had this happen to them or know anyone that this has happened to? How long did it take them to get better? I'm feeling pretty low at the moment as I can't see a light at the end of tunnel. I need some motivation to keep going! It's tough not having weed for a long time especially when it relives my IBS so much but at the same I've tired every other cure and nothing has worked.


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## SweetHayz (Aug 3, 2015)

It is not the weed. Its the problem with your diet.


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## hells canyon genetics (Aug 3, 2015)

are you growing your own cannabis or buying it just a stab in the dark but there can be gnarly pesticides and fertilizers in some cannabis especially in the illegal areas of the country


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## VolcanoLover (Aug 3, 2015)

It's not my diet. I tried every diet you can think of and some you couldn't.

After much searching, I think it's a form of Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. It's very rare but there has been a scientific study on it and 25% of sufferers had diarrhea too so it's not a big stretch to assume this is what's wrong with me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndrome

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121022081353.htm

Luckily everyone got better after 1-3 months of quitting which falls into what I've read from other people who have my symptoms so I'll soon find out. Fingers crossed.

Also, my weed was 100% clean.


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## sunni (Aug 3, 2015)

im going to go with a "combination of things"

nutrition is obviously going to play a huge part in ibs, i highly doubt just stopping smoking marijuana will instantly cure your ibs, youre diet is going to go a long way in changing how you feel with other things.

im going to go with 70% bad diet ideas, 10% irritation 20% inflammation due to both irritation and diet. 

just trying a diet here and there isnt going to help your ibs, you need to figure out which foods upsets you or causes a flare up, and which foods are safe after that you can figure out a nutritionally acceptable lifestyle around that information.

goodluck.


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## SweetHayz (Aug 3, 2015)

That's a long way to go. I hope you get better. Keep us posted. I had a friend with similar issues because he haven't ate in a week.


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## VolcanoLover (Aug 3, 2015)

Everyone assumes it's diet, I did too for the first couple of years but I've been very disciplined and have built a very good understanding of nutrition after years of suffering. I've haven't just cried and continued to eat bad stuff. Even things you assume would be healthy can be bad and I've learn't through reading, trial and error what works best for me. I've covered everything. I've never stopped trying and gave each diet plenty of time.

Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## SweetHayz (Aug 3, 2015)

Are you sure the problem does not come due to auto-immune disease? What is your age?


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## sunni (Aug 3, 2015)

VolcanoLover said:


> Everyone assumes it's diet, I did too for the first couple of years but I've been very disciplined and have built a very good understanding of nutrition after years of suffering. I've haven't just cried and continued to eat bad stuff. Even things you assume would be healthy can be bad and I've learn't through reading, trial and error what works best for me. I've covered everything. I've never stopped trying and gave each diet plenty of time.
> 
> Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it goes.


i assume its nutrition cause i have a dipolma in holistic nutrition (not that that amounts to much but it does have it moments in helping) and am quite aware that diet that can fuck up and cause issues with ibs among other things...i aint talking out my ass here 
i didnt say you cried and continued to eat bad foods, nor did i say you ate unhealthy...
i was giving advice sorry if i offended you was just trying to help you out im sure its exhausting hearing the same things everyday my apologizes i know how frustrating that can be


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## Grandpapy (Aug 3, 2015)

VolcanoLover said:


> Everyone assumes it's diet, I did too for the first couple of years but I've been very disciplined and have built a very good understanding of nutrition after years of suffering. I've haven't just cried and continued to eat bad stuff. Even things you assume would be healthy can be bad and I've learn't through reading, trial and error what works best for me. I've covered everything. I've never stopped trying and gave each diet plenty of time.
> 
> Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it goes.


The same symptoms show up in Central CA. prisons. I would check your environment as well.
The drought is thought to play a part in uncovering new/old pollen & mold spores.


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## 213 (Aug 4, 2015)

Smoking too much of that brown bomber lol I would suggest looking deeper into the nutrition 9/10 times from experience digestive system problems are caused by what your eating/drinking best of luck!


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## taproot (Aug 23, 2015)

Have you considered it might be somewhat related to your psychological health causing physiological symptoms? Do you deal with anxiety and or chronic stress? Both these can screw up your body big time, I know!


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## vostok (Aug 25, 2015)

we call that ibs ....WORMS back east ....lol


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## torontoke (Aug 25, 2015)

I was going to guess worms lol
Or a severe constipation. My dad told his Dr he hadn't had a solid shit since he was 20, he was 50 at the time. They did some tests and said he had a severe blockage so only the liquids could get by. He had all the same symptoms of ibs


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## skinny510 (May 2, 2016)

OK, I am very late to the party (searching for shit on SIBO) but did you quit the volcano and try smoking again?


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## ~CReePeR~ (May 4, 2016)

Quit smoking weed then, everytime someone suggests something you come back and say it isnt the cause.
Im not trying to flame you, or trying to pick a fight. I think you already know the answer. Quit smoking weed and see if it clears up, if so then dont smoke anymore weed, if not call it stress related and continue smoking weed.


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## Mike Roach (May 4, 2016)

There a many factor leading to IBS other than nutrition, among them: genetic predisposition, an intestinal infection prior to symptom onset, chronic stressful life events, or other psycho social factors. Since you quit for 6 weeks now and the symptoms have only got worse, I suspect that using cannabis was not the cause of your IBS and may actually have help alleviate the symptom


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## skinny510 (May 4, 2016)

I tend to believe Dr. Mark Pimentel's research (see link for his book) into bacteria overgrowth in the small intestine as the cause of IBS. The main issue is that the intestinal motility is damaged and that is why so many patients have relapses and find IBS/SIBO difficult to eradicate. You can use antibiotics to kill the bacteria in the small intestine and diet can help prevent their expansion but unless you fix the gut motility you will always have IBS symptoms. 

I have seen doctors blame cannabis for IBS and, specifically, bacteria overgrowth. Cannabis does not cause IBS but it certainly can effect motility; for good in some people and maybe detrimentally in others.


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## Chunky Stool (May 4, 2016)

I've had IBS symptoms for years and limiting gluten has helped a lot. I can eat small amounts, but no whole grain. 
The biggest surprise was that my chronic back pain completely disappeared after 3 months of low gluten diet. Go figure. My doctors are still amazed...


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## HGK420 (May 22, 2016)

Only way canna is gonna give you ibs is if you ate every carb and grain in sight while you got the munchies lol.

Check out mark Sisson on how he cured his own ibs with minor diet adjustments. Grain and simple sugars/carbs is the big one. Cheese itz and their cousins in the pressed flour food world are one of the major issues with ibs..

This is also leading to a ton of people thinking they have gluten sensitivity but just cutting gluten does nothing.... But cutting carbs does.


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## markentingh (Mar 30, 2018)

I’m beginning to believe my cannabis use is also triggering IBS. I’ve tried every diet, removed all bad habits, and only when I stop smoking weed do my symptoms go away after a few weeks. Also, I think weed is causing anxiety for me cause I always think of terrifying things when I smoke.


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## Grandpapy (Mar 30, 2018)

markentingh said:


> I’m beginning to believe my cannabis use is also triggering IBS. I’ve tried every diet, removed all bad habits, and only when I stop smoking weed do my symptoms go away after a few weeks. Also, I think weed is causing anxiety for me cause I always think of terrifying things when I smoke.


Do you use azamax? It makes me sick, along with aluminum clorhydrate in antiperspirants.


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## markentingh (Mar 30, 2018)

I’ve never heard of azamax, sorry.


Grandpapy said:


> Do you use azamax? It makes me sick, along with aluminum clorhydrate in antiperspirants.


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## Grandpapy (Mar 30, 2018)

markentingh said:


> I’ve never heard of azamax, sorry.


It's a pesticide used on cannabis. Perhaps your supplier?


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## markentingh (Mar 31, 2018)

I don’t think pesticides has any correlation since I purchase marijuana from various companies and in different states.


Grandpapy said:


> It's a pesticide used on cannabis. Perhaps your supplier?


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## PetFlora (Mar 31, 2018)

Pretty much IBS is the result of an imbalance of good and bad bacteria in the gut. Due to bad diet ovr decades, fecal plaque builds up on the intestinal wall, cutting off the ability to allow the waste products from inside the body to exit into the bowel, essentially backing up and recycling on the wrong side of the membrane. Colonics 'can' help, but, the solution is to do a series of Dr Hulda Clarke liver cleanses, which slowly removes the built up plaque (Ive done > 20 of these over the years. That plus taking soil-based probiotics, not the crap commercial dairy based products, like yogurt

Vitality Science sells one of the best SBOs on the market. They ar a pet company, but their products are human-grade, packaged for pets


hth


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## Bubblin (Mar 31, 2018)

Metamucil a few times a week n lots of water cured that _shit_ for me.


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## Cannabis.Queen (Mar 31, 2018)

SweetHayz said:


> It is not the weed. Its the problem with your diet.


That's actually been proven that sometimes diet hangings doesn't matter. A strawberry could cause my ibs to spiral up. Marijuana has always helped me though my ibs though. I've had ibs since I was 14 and started smoking at 17


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## PetFlora (Apr 1, 2018)

Cannabis.Queen said:


> That's actually been proven that sometimes diet hangings doesn't matter. A strawberry could cause my ibs to spiral up. Marijuana has always helped me though my ibs though. I've had ibs since I was 14 and started smoking at 17



GIGO: blaming thee strawberry is bad analysis. Eating one simply exposes a much deeper issue (unhealthy bowel conditions). Clean that up and eat whatever you want


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Apr 1, 2018)

VolcanoLover said:


> Everyone assumes it's diet, I did too for the first couple of years but I've been very disciplined and have built a very good understanding of nutrition after years of suffering. I've haven't just cried and continued to eat bad stuff. Even things you assume would be healthy can be bad and I've learn't through reading, trial and error what works best for me. I've covered everything. I've never stopped trying and gave each diet plenty of time.
> 
> Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it goes.


i have a very sensitive stomach, and i smoke weed to keep it under control. it keeps me from being nauseous, it seems to do exactly the opposite for me that you claim it does for you.
the ONLY way to know if thats the case is to quit for at least a couple of months and see if the symptoms clear up.
i highly doubt it will be the case, but if you really want to know, thats the only way.
and if it isn't the case, then i would suggest following sunni's advice and trying to pin point the actual causes, and eliminate them from your diet.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Apr 1, 2018)

markentingh said:


> I don’t think pesticides has any correlation since I purchase marijuana from various companies and in different states.


you purchase weed from "companies" and don't suspect them of using pesticides? i would never buy weed from a dispensary, heard WAY too many stories about exactly that. people buy the shit then feel like shit, because it's full of pesticides the "companies" use, because they want profit, and don't give a fuck that they're defeating the whole purpose for a lot of people


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## BleedsGreen (Apr 1, 2018)

I have had IBS most of my adult life (50 now), my Dad has also had it all his life. Tried everything the doctors suggested, meds, diet, I tried everything the doctors suggested then just gave up and decided to live with it (cannabis isn't my problem as I had the IBS when in the Army and I rarely smoked then). Last year the wife decided she wanted to lose some weight and went on a low card diet. I told her I would do it with her, as I could drop a few pounds. After 4 - 6 weeks I started having solid stool again. My doctor thinks it is the worst diet in the world because it means limited fruits and vegetables but the proof for me at least is in the toilet.


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## Cannabis.Queen (Apr 1, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> GIGO: blaming thee strawberry is bad analysis. Eating one simply exposes a much deeper issue (unhealthy bowel conditions). Clean that up and eat whatever you want


Yes eating a strawberry hurt me no fuck face, I change do my diet many times through out the years and even the healthiest of food triggers me but I also have gal bladder issues so many factors lead into ibs being worse but marijuana has always helped me through it.


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## PetFlora (Apr 1, 2018)

Cannabis.Queen said:


> Yes eating a strawberry hurt me no fuck face, I change do my diet many times through out the years and even the healthiest of food triggers me but I also have gal bladder issues so many factors lead into ibs being worse but marijuana has always helped me through it.



Fuck Face? Im only trying to help with a KNOWN cure. What's the old saying? Let no good deed go unpunished. 

Look, Im sure you're frustrated, not knowing where to turn, probably mentally and physically exhausted. No medicine is going to solve your problem

No matter the diet, without removing the fecal plaque and whatever has built up in your liver, you're spinning your wheels. You ever see a really gunked up engine, full of sludge? That's where your liver, gall bladder and bowel are dealing with. You must cleanse weekly for 6 weeks, though you will likely feel quite a bit better after 3, do all 6

I was shocked at the shear number of pea sized balls that came out of my liver. It took a total of 6 liver cleanses before it was cleaned out, this also cleans the gall bladder. I did over 20 in pursuit of healing a condition that several doctors had no answer to other than a life of 20-30mg of prednisone per day. After 20 years I was a ticking time bomb 

what do you have to lose? DO a search, you'll be amazed how important removing fecal paque and cleansing the liver/gallbladder is to restoring and maintaining health

The problem you experience with strawberries and anything else is that your body is screaming at you that it needs help

Im offering it to you at no charge

your welcome

6 Dr Hulda Clarke Liver Cleanses + soil based probiotics, often referred to as SBOs


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## Joint Monster (Apr 6, 2018)

OP, I can't say I know much about IBS specifically.

However I have come across some very interesting companies that run a full analysis of your blood/stool samples and give you a detailed plan. Deals with microbiomes and gut health.

There are a few companies that do this, but this one in specific was bought up at a large business conference I was watching. It's called Viome. https://www.viome.com (I am not affiliated with it, I have never used it. But hey give it a read maybe it will help, maybe it won't.)

In the medical field, always try to figure out what is causing the symptoms and treat that.


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## NGA (Apr 6, 2018)

I suffer with ibs ,what brought this on is I've had acid reflux so taking pills for this for years a lot of people end up with ibs ,that being said I've taking CBD for 6 months and my ibs is a lot better ,and I only take .2 of a ml 2 times a day ,I pay $90, 40 ml bottle last couple months hope this helps


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## gwheels (Apr 6, 2018)

NO. simple answer...if you ingest decarb fist or its rough on the guts.


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## northeast1212 (Jun 1, 2018)

VolcanoLover said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've used cannabis for about 15 years and always loved the way it makes me feel and got benefits from using it. About 5 years ago, I got a volcano vaporizer and quit smoking it. My usage did go up because I was hitting the vape all day long instead of smoking. After about 6 months I noticed I was getting IBS symptoms all the time and they got even worse when I didn't vape. I ended up vaping all the time to deal with the discomfort but It never went away. It just masks it a bit when I'm high and comes back with a vengeance every morning after 8 hours or so of sleep.
> 
> ...


I'm in the exact same boat. I've been a daily user for over a decade (multiple times a day). I developed a pretty bad case of IBS about 6 months ago and have had every test under the sun conducted (colonoscopy, stool and blood samples, endoscopy, ultrasound, MRI), yielding no direct conclusions. I started an organic pescatarian diet 5 months ago, hoping it was as easy as a diet change, and it made no difference. I started researching the effects of cannabis use to my IBS and it seems there are a lot of people being led to the same conclusion. Today is day one since I quit, we'll see what happens! Will check back in a month with my results.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Jun 1, 2018)

northeast1212 said:


> I'm in the exact same boat. I've been a daily user for over a decade (multiple times a day). I developed a pretty bad case of IBS about 6 months ago and have had every test under the sun conducted (colonoscopy, stool and blood samples, endoscopy, ultrasound, MRI), yielding no direct conclusions. I started an organic pescatarian diet 5 months ago, hoping it was as easy as a diet change, and it made no difference. I started researching the effects of cannabis use to my IBS and it seems there are a lot of people being led to the same conclusion. Today is day one since I quit, we'll see what happens! Will check back in a month with my results.


could be. not everyone can take every medicine. not sure if its physiological, or psychological, but my sister can't smoke weed. it makes her paranoid, and she gets small hives. only person i've ever met who has an actual physically observable reaction to it. but hives can be caused by stress, so i can't say for certain whether its an allergic reaction or a psychological one.
let us know how it goes. hate to see someone have to quit weed, but if you gotta, you gotta


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## northeast1212 (Jun 1, 2018)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> could be. not everyone can take every medicine. not sure if its physiological, or psychological, but my sister can't smoke weed. it makes her paranoid, and she gets small hives. only person i've ever met who has an actual physically observable reaction to it. but hives can be caused by stress, so i can't say for certain whether its an allergic reaction or a psychological one.
> let us know how it goes. hate to see someone have to quit weed, but if you gotta, you gotta


We'll see I guess. I've never met my dealer, obviously don't know where my buds come from either. I live in NYC and have heard a lot of dealers use lead dust to get get more weight for sale. I also read in multiple sources that pesticides can lead to slow exposure to heavy metals through inhalation. Looking at this from a logical prospective, this is the last substance I use that most likely isn't clean. I've ruled everything else out, so by deduction it has to be related to my weed habit. Hopefully not, because I love the buds!


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Jun 1, 2018)

northeast1212 said:


> We'll see I guess. I've never met my dealer, obviously don't know where my buds come from either. I live in NYC and have heard a lot of dealers use lead dust to get get more weight for sale. I also read in multiple sources that pesticides can lead to slow exposure to heavy metals through inhalation. Looking at this from a logical prospective, this is the last substance I use that most likely isn't clean. I've ruled everything else out, so by deduction it has to be related to my weed habit. Hopefully not, because I love the buds!


perhaps you should grow your own. you can control whats on the plant, you get to pick what, if any pesticide you use. not everything i use is omri certified, but most of it is, and i know whats in the things i use, there's nothing dangerous in any of it if its used properly


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 2, 2018)

markentingh said:


> I’m beginning to believe my cannabis use is also triggering IBS. I’ve tried every diet, removed all bad habits, and only when I stop smoking weed do my symptoms go away after a few weeks. Also, I think weed is causing anxiety for me cause I always think of terrifying things when I smoke.


Maybe you're smoking the wrong strains???


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Jun 2, 2018)

Chunky Stool said:


> Maybe you're smoking the wrong strains???


or perhaps the person growing the weed your smoking is using some nasty chemicals, again, i suggest growing your own, and if that bothers you, you know its the weed, and not the shit unethical growers use to make up for sucking at growing


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 2, 2018)

NGA said:


> I suffer with ibs ,what brought this on is I've had acid reflux so taking pills for this for years a lot of people end up with ibs ,that being said I've taking CBD for 6 months and my ibs is a lot better ,and I only take .2 of a ml 2 times a day ,I pay $90, 40 ml bottle last couple months hope this helps


I haven't tried this personally, but it's getting good reviews and might save you a little money. 
https://greenpointcbd.com/tinctures/pure-cbd-everyday/


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## northeast1212 (Jun 4, 2018)

HGK420 said:


> Only way canna is gonna give you ibs is if you ate every carb and grain in sight while you got the munchies lol.
> 
> Check out mark Sisson on how he cured his own ibs with minor diet adjustments. Grain and simple sugars/carbs is the big one. Cheese itz and their cousins in the pressed flour food world are one of the major issues with ibs..
> 
> This is also leading to a ton of people thinking they have gluten sensitivity but just cutting gluten does nothing.... But cutting carbs does.


I understand that every individual is different and IBS can be caused by a multitude of reasons, but I couldn't disagree more. I changed to a pescatarian diet 5 months ago and saw no change whatsoever with my IBS. I stopped smoking 3 days ago and the bloating stopped almost instantly. My stool is semi-regular now but I'm seeing a huge improvement. I occasionally cheat with pizza on the weekends, which I did yesterday, and it didn't affect me NEARLY as bad as it did when I smoked. I mentioned before that I've had ever test done possible and found no clinical diagnosis. The last thing to stop was smoking (I don't smoke cigarettes), and I saw an instant improvement. Again, everyone is different, but maybe try stopping for a few weeks and see what happens.


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## Sleepybud (Jun 28, 2018)

I have UC, which is a IBD and my gastroenterologist says smoking, vaping, eating, however you use cannabis has absolutely nothing to do with it. I didn't read all of these replies, but my condition as well as Crohn's are autoimmune disorders and diet, stress, all the drugs I did in college... have no relation. IBS is not IBD but it can be a precursor. I've been dealing with it(actually, it has been in remission and only has flared up twice) for 8 years. I have a medical card for epilepsy, but UC is another medical condition that has been a part of my treatment regiment. If you haven't, you should probably see a Gastro doc and get a colonoscopy to be certain. They can also advise you about any changes you could make in your ADL's to help keep you from progressing to something more serious. Good luck.


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## Fourtwentysmokinplenty (Jul 5, 2018)

213 said:


> Smoking too much of that brown bomber lol I would suggest looking deeper into the nutrition 9/10 times from experience digestive system problems are caused by what your eating/drinking best of luck!


Lmao nice strain drop


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## Socioman (Oct 22, 2018)

I read some articles about the effect of cannabis on the digestive system but they weren't credible enough. Actually, when such problems occur the best thing you can do is to visit a gastroenterologist. I see no better options than relying on a specialist.


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## Bearijuana (Feb 10, 2019)

Fuck Man!
I'm not sure whats what but let me share. I am a daily user for 15 years though the last 3 years I've been high mostly full time. By choice and I've never felt better. That is except for my stomach. It came on a couple years ago after a bad flu. Puking, shits, and lots of Ibprophen. Then my stomach never did feel better. Developed lactose intolerance, then H. Pylori. Its a bacteria and a class 1 carcinogen, but most people live with it in balance. My balance got thrown out and then fixed with antibiotics. I've had scopes and tests and my stomach is still this day sensitive. Though I've been dabbling with dairy lately but still. 
I don't want it to be the thing that cures me....not my life medicine....


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## Continuum (Feb 14, 2020)

It's the 'secret ingredients' in our food supply. How GMOs, Pesticides and Processed Foods Contribute to Common Bowel Disorders


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## fragileassassin (Feb 14, 2020)

Continuum said:


> It's the 'secret ingredients' in our food supply. How GMOs, Pesticides and Processed Foods Contribute to Common Bowel Disorders


Theres starting to be more link between heavy users with symptoms of IBS or CHS and use of neem derived products. 

I smoke about an oz a week and dealt with everything this thread talks about. Saw 2 different gastros and several other drs and none of them could help at all. Tested negative for everything multiple times and no medications were helping at all. Let them scope me mouth to asshole with biopsies along the whole way. Nothing. It just kept getting worse.
After I switched dispensaries and had a crop finish so I could smoke my own, almost all of my symptoms went away.


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## high acutance (Feb 14, 2020)

I had IBSD for years, finally traced it to excess dairy. But I'm not saying that's your issue. However, an allergy rotation diet is the first thing I'd try with regard to diet. Then I recommend a stool analysis from an advanced lab that can detect parasites and microbes from their DNA. Most local labs just look through a microscope for eggs. They are famous for missing quite widespread parasites such as giardia. The stool analysis will show if you have excess yeast or other microbiome issues. As mentioned, Google "cannabinoid hyperemisis." Unfortunately, with our medical system you need to become your own doctor. Best wishes.


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## Psyphish (Feb 15, 2020)

Go vegan. Not for a week, but for months. Only drink clean water and green/white tea. If that doesn't help then it's not your diet.


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## BleedsGreen (Feb 15, 2020)

My IBS went away completely after my appendix burst and was removed. Go figure, had ibs my entire adult life and after the appendix was removed nothing but normal bowel movements, maybe they knocked something else around but whatever occurred it was a very happy side effect.


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