# My bare bulb journey!



## drekoushranada (Nov 11, 2013)

I finally went with the bare bulbs for the grow room. The room has a 1000w on the left and a 600w on the right. I'm going to eventually have 2 600w for each section. I think the light spread will prove that to be very useful for sure. Here is the new room with the plants tied to the wall like a SCROG.


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## drekoushranada (Nov 11, 2013)

Is order: Judy, Snowcap, Blue OG, and the last 2 pictures are WWxBB. I have an OG #18 that is in the veg room. Can't wait to grow that out! Any questions or critiques? I am going to cover the rest of the walls and floor in panda film also.


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## Nizza (Nov 11, 2013)

great job!!


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## drekoushranada (Nov 11, 2013)

Nizza said:


> great job!!


Thanks. I am just trying to get everything dialed in.


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 12, 2013)

Looks good. Get yourself some bigger floor fans (12-15" at least) and you'll be able to get those plants in nice and tight around the bulbs. I have about 12" (1ft) of distance from my 2 x 600s (1200w total, hanging inline) to my plants. Don't be afraid to burn a few fan leaves, either. As long as the buds aren't being burned or bleached, they will repay you with much larger yields. The tighter you can get your plants around your vertical bulb/s, the better they like it.

Obviously you shouldn't burn the hell out of your plants, but you'd be surprised just how close you can get them by using a good floor fan and ventilation (which you don't have to worry about so much, as you have a large room).


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## MrMeanGreen (Nov 12, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Looks good. Get yourself some bigger floor fans (12-15" at least) and you'll be able to get those plants in nice and tight around the bulbs. I have about 12" (1ft) of distance from my 2 x 600s (1200w total, hanging inline) to my plants. Don't be afraid to burn a few fan leaves, either. As long as the buds aren't being burned or bleached, they will repay you with much larger yields. The tighter you can get your plants around your vertical bulb/s, the better they like it.
> 
> Obviously you shouldn't burn the hell out of your plants, but you'd be surprised just how close you can get them by using a good floor fan and ventilation (which you don't have to worry about so much, as you have a large room).


I am still experimenting with distances from the bulb. While 12" from the bulb increases the overall bud size it also creates a tight wall of leaf reducing light penetration and significantly reduces the overall canopy surface area. Also if my finger tips were getting burn't I would get a bit pissed off as I am sure the plants do if ya burnin the leaves. My last grow was at 12" with 8 plants, finishing height was about 4ft and I was a bit disappointed with the yield (2 x 600's stacked in cool tubes) at just under 30 z's. Just startin a new grow and expanded my radius to 24", gonna spread the plant out more with a view to increasing the yield behind the canopy and expose more bud sites to overall canopy.

Have you done any comparable grows adjusting ya radius and if so how did it affect ya yield??


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 12, 2013)

Perhaps I should quantify. My cage is 2ft in diameter - which is 1ft from bulbs to cage in any direction. The plant pots themselves are a little further away than this, but as they grow they lean into the cage. As you know, I use my cage to vertically scrog, so I just fill in the gaps as they grow, weaving branches in, out and up (and sometimes down).

If the grow gets a bit tight, it's usually because I have too many plants of the same strain crammed around the lights, or am growing indica or indica hybrid varieties that stay short and squat. While this is all part of dialing in each grow, I do tend to remove fan leaves if they get in the way - which is why I don't mind burning them, and the plants don't seem to mind losing them.

Fan leaves are mainly there to store and supply nutrients and photosynthesise energy for branch and root growth, which slows as the plant starts to flower. Removing fans leaves in the flowering stage allows more light to get to the bud sites and - as long as the plant gets enough food - allows those sites to photosynthesise more efficiently and bloom.

The trick to removing fan leaves is to take the ones at the base of the main branches (where they jut out of the main stem/s) and try to leave the ones that are on the branches nearer the bud sites. The fan leaves that jut out from the main stem have already served their main purpose: to provide food and energy for the branches and roots to grow - especially during the stretching phase of 12/12. After that, the smaller leaves, branches and bud sites take over.

Another trick is to arrange your plants SHORT, TALL, SHORT, TALL, around the lights so that the short plants fill in the gaps below, and the tall plants fan out and fill in the gaps above.

Finally, you can always move your pots back a little to give them more space and simply lean the bigger branches up against the cage, while the others support themselves. However, in my experience, overcrowding simply leads to smaller, fluffier buds, crappier yields and lots more trimming!

A vertical grow pretty much involves tweaking all the way. It's not for the hands-off grower: I always spend a bit of time weaving branches around to maximise their exposure to light. And yes, I have tried placing the plants further out from the light, but the yields tend to be poorer for the reason explained above.

My theory is this: if the tips of the fan leaves are burning, then the buds are in exactly the right position - not too close (to burn) and not too far away. I use the fan leaves as a measuring stick. Then I start to remove them once they've served their purpose. I've been doing it for years and it doesn't seem to affect yields. Hazes tend not to get in the way and obstruct everything like indicas, so I tend not to remove as many fan leaves from my sativa varieties. Hardly any, in fact.

I don't use cool tubes, either. As mentioned in another thread, they just get dirty and obstruct the light. You have to clean the outside AND inside of the tubes regularly (they can get pretty dirty in the two months during a grow), so it's not worth the hassle. There's no benefit, either, if you have good ventilation and a decent floor fan blowing up a cool column of air. This I have experimented with and is why I don't do it anymore.

I don't know what strain you're growing, but maybe you can experiment with growing 8 plants further away versus 6 plants in a little closer. I generally have about 6 plants around my 1200w grows. Sometimes 7 or 8 max, but that's usually if I have a staggered grow where some plants finish much earlier than others. The fast-finishing plants get removed after 7 weeks or so, and the haze hybrids are left to stretch out for another 2-3 weeks.


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## drekoushranada (Nov 12, 2013)

Thank you for the good info. I would like to try that form of growing for sure. I'm sure it will work out great with the right stain. My wifi likes to be spread out for sure in a SCROG. I will test the other strains also. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far but I love to experiment and test the limits. Plus it is getting cold and the plants can use the heat from the extra bulbs!


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 12, 2013)

Sorry to jack your thread, mate  But it's all part of playing with a new system and dialling in your grows. Your plants look great - and each grow will only get better.


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## drekoushranada (Nov 13, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Sorry to jack your thread, mate  But it's all part of playing with a new system and dialling in your grows. Your plants look great - and each grow will only get better.


You are not jacking it at all my friend. Feel free to share your experience as much as you like.


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 13, 2013)

Well, you know me - always full of advice (whether asked for it or not!). I can be a little long-winded at times, but I do like to be thorough. And I love my vertical growing: when you get it dialled in, it can be very rewarding. But it's always a learning process, so of course the more we grow (like anything) the better we get.


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## drekoushranada (Nov 13, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Well, you know me - always full of advice (whether asked for it or not!). I can be a little long-winded at times, but I do like to be thorough. And I love my vertical growing: when you get it dialled in, it can be very rewarding. But it's always a learning process, so of course the more we grow (like anything) the better we get.


Are you going to be starting another grow log up anytime soon? Or is the one you did pretty much rinse and repeat for you these days? It was a pleasure to read for sure.


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 13, 2013)

I'm actually in the process of downgrading. It was never my intention to grow pounds of pot every coupe of months. I just started growing for my own personal use and then each grow just kinda . . . grew 

I'm going to design another box for a single 600w vertical grow, with 4-5 plants at a time. I think that will be enough for my modest needs. It's hard to give it up completely - even if I didn't smoke, I would still love growing! - but I really don't need to be doing as much as I am now. It's too much trimming, too much planning (can't go away for holidays for long unless I organise someone to water my plants while I'm away), and honestly too much hassle to get rid of!

What I have in mind is a single-bulb system with a large reservoir that can take care of itself for 2-3 weeks. I know I said vertical growing is hands-on - and it is if you want to maximise yields - but right now I just want to get back to basics: a few plants growing quietly with me checking on them every now and then.

Limiting my system to a single bulb means I don't need to induce as much stretch, nor spend as much time scrogging. I can also grow indicas without worrying about wasting head room. It's simply about . . . simplifying.

I'm pretty much on my last 1200w grow at the moment. Maybe I'll sneak out the back later and get some pics. Just for old time's sake


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## Growingforpeace (Nov 13, 2013)

You ever got a problem getting rid of some stuff, send it my way ahaha


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## drekoushranada (Nov 16, 2013)

Are the Ebay/Amazon generic carbon filters okay?


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 17, 2013)

Hard to go wrong with a carbon filter, as they're just a housing full of charcoal, so most any filter should be fine. Some are refillable - which means you can save a little money replacing the charcoal after a while - but most should last a few years or more before you have to do that. Just make sure your filter is big enough for your grow and doesn't restrict your ventilation (create a bottleneck after your exhaust fan). Check also for any obvious leaks (carbon or carbon dust falling out as you handle the filter), as some carbon filters can blow black dust all over the place if they're not sealed/built well. If that happens, just wrap the outside of the filter in old stockings - that may help to an extent.


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## MrMeanGreen (Nov 18, 2013)

The carbon in filters is very expensive, Australian carbon even more so and one way to save on construction is to be tight with the carbon. On that note, I prefer to stay with the branded filters which may be a bit more expensive but you know what your getting. Just sayin.....


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## supchaka (Nov 18, 2013)

Are those some DWC buckets in the corner? Thats gotta be an absolute nightmare if so!


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## drekoushranada (Nov 18, 2013)

I went with the 8" phresh filter. Should take care of everything.


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## drekoushranada (Nov 18, 2013)

supchaka said:


> Are those some DWC buckets in the corner? Thats gotta be an absolute nightmare if so!


They are on the flat side of the wall. I just swap them out with another bucket. It is pretty easy actually.


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## Thecouchlock (Nov 18, 2013)

My previous boss did vertical lighting, you should invest in a parabolic reflector. They actually do pretty damn good especially since a lot of that light is going sideways and up. We also never put them down into the plants we kept them over them. One 1500w light was good enough to get 3000 grams. we used it to light two trays at a time. 

His buddy came over after we told him how much we were yielding and he didn't believe it. It works and it works great but you have to have the proper space to utilize it right. Takes a huge ass AC and a huge ass Dehumidifier to keep the 8 trays afloat.


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 18, 2013)

MrMeanGreen said:


> The carbon in filters is very expensive, Australian carbon even more so and one way to save on construction is to be tight with the carbon. On that note, I prefer to stay with the branded filters which may be a bit more expensive but you know what your getting. Just sayin.....


You're right about the price of carbon/charcoal. However, I've bought cheap carbon filters and expensive ones over the years, and they've all been pretty much the same construction and quality. They seem to be getting cheaper now because there's more competition. That's just my experience in Australia - I can't vouch for other countries.

Normally I recommend spending a little extra money to buy quality products that will last a little longer, but carbon filters are one of those things where it doesn't seem to matter what you spend, you get a very similar product. Most hydro shops build them themselves, using the same canisters and the same bulk charcoal that everyone else does. The difference in quality seems to be restricted to the way they screw or rivet everything together. If your carbon filter hasn't been assembled very well, it's usually pretty easy for you to fix it yourself. As MMG has explained: the real expense is in the charcoal filtering material itself.

I also agree that if you get peace of mind from spending a little extra on a "name" brand, then it's worth doing. You're expenses should be offset by your yields at the end of the day.

Of course, I just helped a friend buy a HUGE carbon filter (315mm ducting, over 1 meter long) last week for a very cheap price, and it was fine.


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## drekoushranada (Nov 19, 2013)

So once again I am thinking about changing the room. Iwant to go 600 1000 600 in a configuration as such. Surrounded by plants. 
 xxxxxxx
x o 0 o x
 xxxxxxx What do you all think about this configuration?


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 20, 2013)

If you could get some plants in-between the 1000 and 600s (see below), that would be better. I'd hang the 600s right down into the plants and leave the 1000 a little higher so that it spreads light across the tops of the canopies. If you've got the room dimensions for it, that is.

XXXXXXXXXXXX
X o XX O XX o X
XXXXXXXXXXXX


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## drekoushranada (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm starting to feel like a single 600 watt light is not as effective in a vert system. I'm going to stack them and see how it matches up with my 1000w. Any suggestions? I'm trying to take advantage of these cool temps.


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## Prawn Connery (Dec 2, 2013)

Well I ended up doing just that in my own set-up: going from a 600w single to 2x 600w inline vertical lamps, and the results were obviously good, as I continued to grow like that for many years. I am planning on going back to a single 600w lamp soon, but that's just because I'd like to scale things down a little. 1200w works very well in systems up to 6' tall.

There's not much to stacking bulbs, except ensuring you can adjust both lights up and down using some sort of chain or pulley system. Don't use nylon rope (it may burn) and be careful where you place the chains etc, so they don't rub or interfere with one of the bulbs (typically the chains from the low bulb interfering with the upper bulb). You can also take the lower bulb and bend the electrical chord where it comes out of the socket to roughly 90 degrees (bend it straight over) and then tie it with wire to keep it in place. This will; allow you to place the bulbs close to each other while they hang vertically and prevent the upper bulb from burning the electrical chord of the lower bulb.

You will want the bulbs hanging fairly close together in the early stages, and then start to split them (raising the upper bulb) up as the plants grower taller. And that's really all there is to it.


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## skunkd0c (Dec 2, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> So once again I am thinking about changing the room. Iwant to go 600 1000 600 in a configuration as such. Surrounded by plants.
> xxxxxxx
> x o 0 o x
> xxxxxxx What do you all think about this configuration?


Have you tried or considered positioning the plants horizontally
as with like a pi wall, or similar system


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## MikeGanja (Dec 2, 2013)

Great thread! 

I noticed that you place the plant pots inside the cage while others like prawn have them on the outside. Is that all about the diameter of the cage or do you consider your setup is easier to work with? Not saying that one setup is better, I´m asking because I´m trying to figure out whats best for my first vertical grow.


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## Prawn Connery (Dec 2, 2013)

I can only answer for myself, but having the plants outside the cage makes them more accessible - which is important if you're going to vertical scrog and need to weave the branches around - and I prefer to lean the plants against a cage towards the lights instead of away from them.


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## Dr.D81 (Dec 4, 2013)

i did away with the cage all together my self. the whole thing was a pain. with  with out


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## MikeGanja (Dec 6, 2013)

It seems like vertical growing comes in many flavors and it´s very interesting to read about your growing. I have limited grow space so I am most likely going to copycat Prawns setup. What strains do you grow dr.d? Drek I am looking forward to more photos from your bare bulb journey. J


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## drekoushranada (Dec 7, 2013)

Hey guys. Apologies on not updating like I should. I been super busy. Doing the room over also. I'm putting the cages back up and having a smaller diameter like Prawn. 1 cage with a 1000w and the other with stacked 600w. Have you all ever tried the aeroflo system? I want to try the 36 site unit and run it with a 600w bulb. Just asking because I can get it for super cheap.


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## drekoushranada (Dec 9, 2013)

Well I'm going to grab the aeroflo 36. I will run a 600 watt SOG with Judy and WWxBB. The Judy finishes faster than any plant I have grown. Awesome smoke. I hope this strong Indica lady does well. She is suppose to be Astro Queen from TGA that was discontinued years ago. Any suggestions?


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## Nizza (Dec 9, 2013)

i've read up on aero and hear you need to run an aero line of nutrients, to avoid clogs on the aero heads. There are products like drip clean but i'm pretty sure products formulated for aero work superior. A major plus to aero is less nutrient use/loss
i also hear battery backup is a life saver, well worth the crop it saves when it gets used...


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## drekoushranada (Dec 9, 2013)

I will be using Dyna Gro nutes.


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## Nizza (Dec 10, 2013)

same here brudda!

do you use the pro-tekt?
for some reason if i mix my nutes and leave them more than a day, the water clouds up.
i always add the protekt first then the other stuff, at a less than 100 ppm dose so..


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## drekoushranada (Dec 10, 2013)

That is interesting that you nutes do that. The stuff I leave out does not cloud up. Yes pro tek is a must!


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## drekoushranada (Dec 17, 2013)

Well I finally got around to changing the room. I will post pictures soon. Whew!! haha


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## drekoushranada (Dec 27, 2013)

This is my Judy strain before the trim.


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