# Why do we want marijuana legalized?



## KingOfBud (Jan 16, 2008)

I'm not sure if i actually would like to see cannabis legalized. From a growers perspective, the probation is gold! In my area alone, ounces of good bud are going for $150! You grow 5 plants, no chance of jail on first offense (here at least) sometimes not even a criminal record, get 3 - 4 pounds total. That's almost $10,000 from almost no risk. 10 grand every 10 weeks really don't seem too bad for me. You could even live off a grand a week...

Hell, I'm probably being naive here. But what are your opinions?


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## MagusALL (Jan 16, 2008)

i think the illegal enterprise is the worst part of marijuana cultivation. yeah it lets the non smokers get some buds but it also makes us all seem like drug dealers when were just weed tokers. if it were legalized the commercial growers would be out a job but for smokers, it would be way better. we would have the freedom to grow and smoke and not be considered criminals. so if youre a commercial grower it would suck but for smokers, it would simply be awesome.


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## KingOfBud (Jan 16, 2008)

I agree, from the stoner side of me anyway. The prices would go down (or maybe even up from tax?) too. It is generally the evil enterprising criminals that us cannabis smokers are represented by, these guys would disappear and crime would go down. Hurm. I'm still split on where i stand in this issue...


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## Crdbrdnrollersk8 (Jan 16, 2008)

A lot of growers/users lose sight of it, but marijuana is actually a MEDICINE. Although i make much more money than i deserve off marijuana, i would still dance in the street if things could change.


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## MagusALL (Jan 16, 2008)

yeah well if youre making dough id say you know where your mind is at. prices would definitely go down. otherwise people would still sell illegally. i just like the idea of growing my own and not being a buyer or seller. the money saved is enough to consider it a profit. but to each his own


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## Crdbrdnrollersk8 (Jan 16, 2008)

KingOfBud said:


> I agree, from the stoner side of me anyway. The prices would go down (or maybe even up from tax?) too. It is generally the evil enterprising criminals that us cannabis smokers are represented by, these guys would disappear and crime would go down. Hurm. I'm still split on where i stand in this issue...


The just thing is to end the misinformed, unconstitutional criminalization of the cannabis. You are only being selfish and short sighted to say a thing like that.


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## MagusALL (Jan 16, 2008)

yeah i dont see too many hard nosed pot dealers. not on the local level anyway. but who knows. i do think however that its a stupid ban in this country. especially for those needing it for medicinal purposes. how can the government be so righteous as to outlaw a substance that doctors say cures or aids in the treatment of a disease? what a bunch of assholes. all this for a non-addictive cheap to cultivate weed. bunch of old assholes.


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## Evil Buddies (Jan 16, 2008)

if marijuana was legalized some dealers would turn to other criminal activities to make money or get a job. They might sell harder drugs or even do robberies. Ive seen it happen when the big droughts came. I would like to see it leagalized in an attempt to stop more kids getting hooked on more harmfull substances


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## MagusALL (Jan 16, 2008)

perhaps, but they would never have started being drug dealers in the first place. weed is the GATEWAY drug. for kids its cheaper to buy an ounce of weed and flip it and then move up than to buy, what a 1/8 of coke and find coke buyers? everyone smokes weed thats why everyone starts with selling weed. its plentiful and crosses all socio-economic barriers. people get caught up in this drug dealer mystique. but if they never had the opportunity cuz weed wasnt a drug anymore, they would probably just be like everyone else. a stoner


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 16, 2008)

Marijuana is not a Gateway drug. A higher percentage of the pooulation that has never smoked is hooked on other drug than the percentage of people that have smoked marijuana. I haven't ever heard of anyone committing a robbery to buy weed either. You must be listening to the dea propaganda. VV


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## MagusALL (Jan 16, 2008)

yeah, well you must not be from my town VV. it obviously IS a gateway drug. not many people start out smoking crack or shooting heroin. its a gateway drug in that its the most abundant, more widely accepted, available and cheap drug out there. therefor people start out with pot and then move onto other drugs later on. i dont know where this "statistic" comes from that those who are "hooked" on other drugs are less likely to have tried pot than those who arent. that sounds like a statistic you just made up. with all due respect you just might not see a true drug enterprise where you are like i see where i am. people get killed over pot, people rob people over pot, and there are millions of dollars made on the illegal distribution of pot. can you really dispute those facts?


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## PeaceHunter (Jan 16, 2008)

gateway or not, however you want to look at it, the human has the strength within to smoke herb and not use other synthetic and harmful substances. 

Instead of it being a _gateway drug_, 
I like to see it as a natural being, 
able to eliminate the gate.

As far as legalization, wouldn't it feel right to not have to hide such a wonderful thing?


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## Crdbrdnrollersk8 (Jan 16, 2008)

PeaceHunter said:


> As far as legalization, wouldn't it feel right to not have to hide such a wonderful thing?


And not have to be a criminal just to do what you believe in. In fact I'm packing a bowl right now to toast just that. To the legalization of marijuana.


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## stickyicky77 (Jan 16, 2008)

Weed should be legal. It would take it out of the black market and free up the courts and prisons for REAL criminals that need to be there. It would also help the economy and the environment. It probally will be legal in another 10 years.


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## smokenchoke310 (Jan 16, 2008)

the reason it shoiuld be legal is that I wont hvae 2 worry bout the police pullin me over... or worryin bout the smell comin out the car when im tryin to hot box... n 2 help people who are in stressful situations..LAPD... scares me


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## Crdbrdnrollersk8 (Jan 16, 2008)

Yeah, fuck the police.


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 17, 2008)

MagusALL said:


> > yeah, well you must not be from my town VV. it obviously IS a gateway drug. not many people start out smoking crack or shooting heroin. its a gateway drug in that its the most abundant, more widely accepted, available and cheap drug out there.
> 
> 
> You are right it is the cheapest, most used and widely accepted drug out there and not just where you live. That isn't what the 'Gate Way Drug' theory is about.
> ...


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 17, 2008)

smokenchoke310 said:


> the reason it shoiuld be legal is that I wont hvae 2 worry bout the police pullin me over... or worryin bout the smell comin out the car when im tryin to hot box... n 2 help people who are in stressful situations..LAPD... scares me


You really need to do some checking. I don't know anyone that is proposing you should be allowed to smoke while you are driving. VV


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## smokenchoke310 (Jan 17, 2008)

Not driving but traveling with it... n i dont travel far high jus 2 food then hurry bak home


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## stickyicky77 (Jan 17, 2008)

The gateway drug theory is a bunch of propaganda bullshit made up by the government to justify making weed illegal. Weed was first made illegal in San Antonio , TX out of predigest to get rid of and oppress the Mexican population. They claimed bullshit like they would get high and rape white women and other crimes to scare people into making it illegal. It has been a unjust law from the very beginning. The USA has had never really had a pot problem socially. It was legal during probation and was grown in Tenn and other states for making Hemp rope for the Navy during WW2. The real gate way drugs are alcohol and cigarettes.


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## SoloGro57 (Jan 17, 2008)

Yeah, the Pusher-Man needs drugs to remain illegal to keep his pockets full. Unfortunately, the enforcement community also hates the idea of legalization, at least at higher levels, for a number of reasons. Most of them also having to do with money. Think of all the pot busts they make. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. It's their reason for being. It's their justification. It's how they keep the money flowing into their budgets. Pot prohibition makes it Easy Money. They've shown their resolve in this matter time and time again. They don't give a shit even about medical use. They'd rather see cancer and aids patients die of malnutrition than make weed available to those it can help. I believe it also gives them a reason to keep their finger up the ass of what they have long regarded as a subversive element of society. 

Legalize weed and you cut yearly busts by half. Not to mention the decline in crime due to the other crime that revolves around the drug trade. Pretty soon they're going to have to cut budgets and jobs. No bureaucrat worth his salt wants that. Even if it's the right thing for the people and the country. It's simple self-preservation. They can't let it happen. Cops need illegal drugs just like God needs the Devil. Do you think that the DEA heads are going to let their cushy jobs just evaporate just because a bunch of pot heads want to smoke their herb?! Fuck that, they'd say. It just doesn't serve their purpose. 

Let's not even talk about all the industries that support drug enforcement. You're talking about billions of dollars. Prisons are a booming industry. Prohibition keeps them overcrowded, with people demanding more and more facilities. Do you think that the companies that build, maintain and manage prisons have any reason to see pot legalized. Fuck no. They'll lobby against it. The pharmaceutical industry is annother issue. Weed is a medicine cabinet on a stalk. Trust me, they are afraid of pot, and will do what they have to in order to keep it as a schedule one drug. They're incredibly powerful. The list of wealthy, powerful industries which have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo is longer than your arm.

Then there's even darker reasons. It's been pretty well doccumented that our government and others often support groups involved in the manufacture and distribution of illicit drugs, in return for intelligence, and manpower, in reigons where they have no other way to get a foothold. Once they begin legalizing drugs it becomes harder to hand out drug monopolies to the people they want to work with. Prohibition works for agencies like the CIA. Listen to this NPR interview for more about the CIA and drugs: Worldview - Geopolitics of Drugs: The Politics of Heroin

This thing is way more fucked up than most people imagine.


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## joyossn (Jan 17, 2008)

Its a fucking plant


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## SoloGro57 (Jan 17, 2008)

joyossn said:


> Its a fucking plant


Unfortunately.


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## smokenchoke310 (Jan 17, 2008)

I say u only live once...so no need in waitin for them 2 legalize it... jus smoke n liv life..


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## overfiend (Jan 17, 2008)

gateway drug my ass i ate shrooms for 2 years before i tried weed

why legalize? so i can grow my whole fukin backyard full of weed with out them taking my house


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## goatamineHcL (Jan 17, 2008)

KingOfBud said:


> I'm not sure if i actually would like to see cannabis legalized. From a growers perspective, the probation is gold! In my area alone, ounces of good bud are going for $150! You grow 5 plants, no chance of jail on first offense (here at least) sometimes not even a criminal record, get 3 - 4 pounds total. That's almost $10,000 from almost no risk. 10 grand every 10 weeks really don't seem too bad for me. You could even live off a grand a week...
> 
> Hell, I'm probably being naive here. But what are your opinions?


because everyone doesnt want to sell it and apparently you live somewhere coool where i live its 5 years madatorey first offense growing even 1 plant so it makes normal people who dont like to drink and just wanna smoke into criminals

i dotn sell shit and i dont grow shit but i love to smoke and because its illegal i cant grow my ownb or not without fear of serious life altering repercussions and in order to get it i have to buy it for way more than i would if it were legal plus deal with shady characters from time to time in order to get it

i see the point of all the money that would be lost from legalizing it because if it were legal some people would still sell but i think mostly people who wanted it would just grow it and make it available for friends family

but really they should legalize all drugs then the violent criminal organizations controling the more lucrative substances could become legitamate business men and countries likein south america would have legitamate legal exports

the only ones who would really lose money are the police


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## overfiend (Jan 17, 2008)

i think there is a lot of money to be made for our fine fukin government. every one says they would lose money because people could grow it but most people are lazy and would rather buy it. think people who would grow it are the few fine individuals on this site if it were legal i would change my job title to farmer and pay taxes. money for them

besides it is legal to grow tobacco which is addictive as fuck and no one grows backyards full of it. people say tobacco doesnt grow well in different climates bullshit
people used to say weed doesnt grow well in northern states i've never had any problems with outdoor crops


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## natmoon (Jan 17, 2008)

I think the main reason for legalization of all drugs is really that its about freedom of choice.
Also when a crack head murders your own gran for 50 dollars you might wish he could have gotten some from the local chemist for 6 dollars.

As to maryjane being legal i personally think that if it was legal prices could go up especially for hybrid strains that no one else has.
So get to creating your own hybrids so that you can keep a decent price on them ready for legalization.

People don't mind paying out for something that is good and that cant be bought anywhere else.
Also all of the people that are genuinely ill could use weed when they liked and it is estimated that there are millions of ill people that would like to try weed for their ailments but would not as they live to the law and would never take something illegal.

So 5 million new customers that are ill and 10 million that would try it because it was no longer illegal.
Even from this business point of view only,legalization would not make the breeders or dealers poorer,it would just open up a whole new market


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## PeaceHunter (Jan 19, 2008)

SoloGro57 said:


> Do you think that the DEA heads are going to let their cushy jobs just evaporate just because a bunch of pot heads want to smoke their herb?! Fuck that, they'd say. It just doesn't serve their purpose.



It's time to stop becoming complacent with corruption.
This country was founded on principles of freedom and liberty, 
not deception and suppression.


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## hibitydibity3048 (Jan 19, 2008)

Where i am from if you are found with one plant you serve a five year minimum. I want it legalized because marijuana is used by burnouts and scholars. And i have seen several people who had bright futures ahead of them, have it all taken away by some bible thumping judge.


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## MicroGro (Jan 19, 2008)

My location has some of the hasrshest laws on the books. Seriously I want to move to Cali or Canada or Europe or some where I can grow and smoke in peace. I'll make money otherways I just want to be able to chill and smoke without paranoia. It's been years since I've smoked outdoors I'm just that paranoid.


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## GIJoe8383 (Jan 19, 2008)

i think the music has changed the culture...lol


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## Doc (Jan 22, 2008)

As a lover of weed, I first experienced it when I was 15 and fell in love. At 30 I had a massive heart attack and am now over 50 and not only am still in love, but am in dire need thanks to the mistakes of our medicinal world. I know of hundreds of folks that would benefit personally from the legalization of it. But lets forget that for a second. What about all the people like me that have un-treatable pain from the mistakes of Doctors. (I know that of which I speak . . .hence my name) Pot is THE ONLY substance that elevates pain and surpresses nerve spasms! PERIOD. I know because I currently take Kadian (synthetic Morphine) Neurontin and vicotin on a daily basis and only have relief at night when I can slip away and induldge in Gods best pain reliever and how strange . . .it's natural. Not to mention I wear clothes made of hemp,(they last at least twice as long as any other fiber) soap from hemp as well as rope and many other benefits. Heaven forbid I would and could be self contained by simply legalizing a WEED!!!


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## Doc (Jan 22, 2008)

As a lover of weed, I first experienced it when I was 15 and fell in love. At 30 I had a massive heart attack and am now over 50 and not only am still in love, but am in dire need thanks to the mistakes of our medicinal world. I know of hundreds of folks that would benefit personally from the legalization of it. But lets forget that for a second. What about all the people like me that have un-treatable pain from the mistakes of Doctors. (I know that of which I speak . . .hence my name) Pot is THE ONLY substance that subdues pain and surpresses nerve spasms! PERIOD. I know because I currently take Kadian (synthetic Morphine) Neurontin and vicotin on a daily basis and only have relief at night when I can slip away and induldge in Gods best pain reliever, and how strange . . .it's natural. Not to mention I wear clothes made of hemp,(they last at least twice as long as any other fiber) soap from hemp as well as rope and many other benefits. Heaven forbid I would and could be self contained by simply legalizing a WEED!!!


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## mrskitz (Jan 22, 2008)

the gateway drug is achohol!most ppls first experience of getting high is when they first drunk achohol so thats the first step and you cant cut out the second third etc steps unless you cut out the first step which will never happen!yeh if some ppl couldnt sell weed nomore they would sell harder drugs or get involved in other crime and some wouldnt!


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## Kamisori (Feb 2, 2008)

I think we can all agree that pot isn't a harmful drug. There are things that's a lot worse than weed, like cocaine and heroin... that shit will actually kill you, pot won't. In my state, if you get caught with more than an ounce, you are going to prison for awhile. Most of the potheads I know are good people, we shouldn't get put in prison for a drug that is harmless.

LEGALIZE IT!!!!


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## korvette1977 (Feb 2, 2008)

I wanna be able to grow outside my house for my own consumption, that way i dont have to deal with dealers to score some...


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## smokingbot (Feb 2, 2008)

I want to be able to smoke any strain, any time I want, anywhere I want.


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## Kamisori (Feb 2, 2008)

smokingbot said:


> I want to be able to smoke any strain, any time I want, anywhere I want.


Damn right, man!


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## buzzza (Feb 2, 2008)

i dont really care for legalization either..... i do my thang w/out gettin caught, get free bud n make mad dough.

in theory.......(gonna grow come may)......


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## natmoon (Feb 2, 2008)

buzzza said:


> i dont really care for legalization either..... i do my thang w/out gettin caught, get free bud n make mad dough.
> 
> in theory.......(gonna grow come may)......


Legalization is needed.
It wont affect dealers.

There will always be a black market for any product even sugar.
Only today i got offered 50gram pouches of golden virgina(tobacco)and bottles of whiskey for half the shop price.
Its like saying that because alcohol is legal people will no longer buy it as they can make their own,just isn't the case.

Anyone who wants to grow already does.
90% of the world will never bother and you can still sell it from wherever and pay no tax.
The new crime of pot would just be tax evasion


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## KingOfBud (Feb 3, 2008)

Corner shop weed would probably have low THC levels too. Maybe laws that only strains lower than %10 THC can be sold. So, we would have a black market for 'good shit'.


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## Kamisori (Feb 3, 2008)

KingOfBud said:


> Corner shop weed would probably have low THC levels too. Maybe laws that only strains lower than %10 THC can be sold. So, we would have a black market for 'good shit'.


That would probably be the only way it would get legalized, make the weak shit legal... Now that I'm thinking about it, how strong is medical marijuana. Is it nice and strong, or is it like around 10% THC or something?


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## KingOfBud (Feb 3, 2008)

Medical? Medical is usually around 15%, quite strong shit. I could easily see it being legalized in places like coffee shops in Holland. They tried to open a few of those here in the U.K when Cannabis got downgraded, but they all got closed down.


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## tahoe58 (Feb 3, 2008)

I agree with much that has been said already relating to the fate of sellers. I wish not to state any right or wrong on selling, those that seek to advance through selling pot will find other ways to stay alive in the event of legalization. and the rest of us can continue on growing and smoking our own. I compare it to the booze business, there are even more home-brewers and wine makers, and hooch makers these days.

gateway?......I believe a natural tendency exists that is either activated and pursued or supressed and dies. and then the myriad of possibilities in between.....life is a continuum at it largest....and its smallest.


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## Johnnyorganic (Feb 3, 2008)

Cannabis prohibition must end for one reason: freedom. 

By itself the consumption of a plant for recreational purposes is not a crime. It is only a crime because government says it is a crime. Murder is a crime. Rape is a crime. Growing and using a plant does not compare. 

Enforcement of prohibition is wasteful and is a gross violation of the U.S. Constitution.

As far as dealers are concerned, I could care less. The cartels, and by extension - dealers, have been exploiting us poor schmucks for decades. There will always be something illegal for which dealers can overcharge.


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## GIJoe8383 (Feb 3, 2008)

i got hooked on bud when i was 14


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## doctorD (Feb 3, 2008)

sorry guys but it looks like we are soooo far from legalization. around here anyhow. my state just outlawed smoking pretymuch everywhere but your car and home. cant see em letting me smoke a bowl at the park anytime soon


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## rezo (Feb 3, 2008)

they can never legalize it. if they do theyll have to admit they were wrong about it. if they admit that then the lawsuits would come from all over and rip the government. plus they keep all moneys and prophits from seized assets of drug dealers so they aint givin that up. the us gov. makes millions ayear(if not billions )busting pot dealers


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## doctorD (Feb 3, 2008)

Also as far as a gateway drug...If it had been legal when i started smoking way back in 79 i dont think i would have ever been exposed to the other "hard" drugs but it wasnt so i was now dealing with the blackmarket and it has all kinds of thing a person might find interesting but would never have seen if they had been able to go to a local shop and pick up a bag. i only smoke pot now but ive tried lots of other things some i liked some not so much but still....


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## Johnnyorganic (Feb 3, 2008)

The U.S. is slowly, but surely, heading for decriminalization. I predict a fiscal crisis will prompt people to realize the government spends $29 billion a year on prohibition. Moreover, revenues from regulation may convince policymakers to legalize completely. 

Another option is a complete breakdown of the United States of America where individual states will determine the merits of legalization, as per the 10th Amendment. Hopefully, federalism will prevail and states will choose for themselves.

Thanks to the internet, more people are growing their own than ever before. Poll after poll indicates the people favor decriminalization at the very least. It won't be long before jury nullification makes drug enforcement an egregious waste of the taxpayer's money. The public is gradually coming to the realization that we have all been sold a bill of goods in the form of the War on Drugs. How many states have already decriminalized cannabis, or approved medical marijuana? I think it's up to eleven. Eventually the Federal Government will be forced to bow to the will of the people.


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## natmoon (Feb 3, 2008)

Johnnyorganic said:


> The U.S. is slowly, but surely, heading for decriminalization. I predict a fiscal crisis will prompt people to realize the government spends $29 billion a year on prohibition. Moreover, revenues from regulation may convince policymakers to legalize completely.
> 
> Another option is a complete breakdown of the United States of America where individual states will determine the merits of legalization, as per the 10th Amendment. Hopefully, federalism will prevail and states will choose for themselves.
> 
> Thanks to the internet, more people are growing their own than ever before. Poll after poll indicates the people favor decriminalization at the very least. It won't be long before jury nullification makes drug enforcement an egregious waste of the taxpayer's money. The public is gradually coming to the realization that we have all been sold a bill of goods in the form of the War on Drugs. How many states have already decriminalized cannabis, or approved medical marijuana? I think it's up to eleven. Eventually the Federal Government will be forced to bow to the will of the people.


Yeah never take the "deal" offered by the devil.
I.E. If you get caught never take the deal to be tried by a local magistrate with no jury.
Always go with a jury trial as you can appeal to the people on the jury with hard realities,you cannot do this with a judge.
Ask the jury to decide if they think and why you should be arrested for smoking in your own home if you have hurt no one and stolen nothing then why is the government wasting tax payers cash on you?


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## BSIv2.0 (Feb 3, 2008)

*Why do people think if MJ were legalized....All of a sudden...cultivation would be ok.*

*In the US...Alcohol is legal to buy....But they'll put your ass under the jail for making it on your own.*

*If its legalized...the feds would still want all the $$$....Meaning....The home growers would still have to look over their shoulders.*

*Great for the Medical users....But the homegrowers would still get the short end of the stick IMO.*


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## bigballin007 (Feb 3, 2008)

correction it is only illegal to distill or sell alcohol not to make your own....


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## Johnnyorganic (Feb 3, 2008)

BSIv2.0 said:


> *Why do people think if marijuana were legalized....All of a sudden...cultivation would be ok.*
> 
> *In the US...Alcohol is legal to buy....But they'll put your ass under the jail for making it on your own.*
> 
> ...


Legalizing cannabis would represent several positive changes: A general level of tolerance in society, better & cheaper bud, a new source of revenue for the government, and the re-emergence of the hemp industry into the economy.

Home-growers would be treated just like home-brewers and home-vintners are treated now. As long as they don't sell it the government could care less.


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## peadrojones (Feb 4, 2008)

The value of the plant would be devastating on all the businesses that prosper on prohibition the wealthy legal criminals the real murders and kingpins would not be able to get the common guy in the system as easy to get him in the pocket the good ole revolving doors that has the whole MO MONEY for the gov. the pharmicutical industry would be interrupted also they will not loose the dope feinds for pills they get to much money from the whole setup on the product they love there change so why would they so want to change a thing str8 up there is a TON of reasons it is not legal SO GET PAID an love life


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## bottomsizzle (Feb 5, 2008)

just to put my two cents in legalization would be great,i would't even mind paying tax on it and im legal as it is with a med exemption from my doctor but to jail people who smoke to cure pain in illegal states just isnt right and should be viewed as cruel and unusaul punishment.those of you who profit from marijuana will just super crops and larger room gorilla grows and such and would manage with just slightly more work.....keep cannabis chem free


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## WeFallToday (Feb 12, 2008)

I wont lie.I starting growing just to make money.

I had a "freind" tell me how much he makes.

And i was hooked.

I don't smoke Marijuana alot,but we all have those times where you like to relax and smoke up,But for the most part i like growing [its so fun ._.] and i like makeing money.

If it was legalized i know i would lose all my money [or atleast alot] but at the same time,being able to walk the street and smoke a fat blunt..would be..great

As of most of the people im stuck. I like the money but i also like to be able to smoke with a clear conscience


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## raeman1990 (Feb 18, 2008)

But seriously, the government has to realize its a fucking PLANT!!!! Meth anfedamins (spelled wrong) were first made by the nazis to keep their tank crews awake, cocaine was made as a medicine as well as heroin, these things were made by humans to enhance our being in different ways, and they all fuck people up and should be illegal, but weed is a plant that was made by nature and its safer than most prescriptions any way, it should be legal!


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## raeman1990 (Feb 18, 2008)

some people say that they cant legalize pot cause of various reasons, but hey could by making the same as cigarettes, cant SELL to kids under 19 or some shit, cant sell without taxes or buy without taxes, cant do it in public restaurants, i would be fine with these restrictions, wouldnt you guys? plus the gov. would make sooooooo much money from taxes and gov owned pot shops. and save $$$$$ from all the police needed to enforce the laws.


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## MatanuskaThunderFuck (Feb 23, 2008)

I'd hope it would be something on the lines of having growers have to get licenses to grow or a special business license. I'm not sure any good can come out of the govt. taking control over it.

Full on legalization would probably make it illegal to grow but legal to buy from the govt. No telling if they lower the potency or what not. Sure it won't necessarily mean everyone would stop growing but I feel the govt. would raise the stakes for getting caught growing. Some nasty felony and/or fine. Doesn't seem too different but if the growers are able to market it, it's probably best legal or illegal, imo.


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## tickitickitembo (Mar 3, 2008)

KingOfBud said:


> I'm not sure if i actually would like to see cannabis legalized. From a growers perspective, the probation is gold! In my area alone, ounces of good bud are going for $150! You grow 5 plants, no chance of jail on first offense (here at least) sometimes not even a criminal record, get 3 - 4 pounds total. That's almost $10,000 from almost no risk. 10 grand every 10 weeks really don't seem too bad for me. You could even live off a grand a week...
> 
> Hell, I'm probably being naive here. But what are your opinions?


wow.. that was the most greedy american capitalistic thing i have heard from a pot head. that made for a good laugh... and yes your being really naive


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## chocolate (Mar 5, 2008)

tickitickitembo said:


> wow.. that was the most greedy american capitalistic thing i have heard from a pot head. that made for a good laugh... and yes your being really naive


d00d ive been seein your posts around..
this isnt someplace to just tell people what they do is "...the most greedy american capitalistic thing..." 
treat others as you would like to be treated, and generally just be polite. if he wants to sell his pot let him, im sure he loves his job as would i if i did the same. and besides his argument is no different then that of marijuana club owners..
theyre all just semi-legal dealers...

so please sir, if you could not be naive and maybe check out all sides of the equation...


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## chocolate (Mar 5, 2008)

KingOfBud said:


> I'm not sure if i actually would like to see cannabis legalized. From a growers perspective, the probation is gold! In my area alone, ounces of good bud are going for $150! You grow 5 plants, no chance of jail on first offense (here at least) sometimes not even a criminal record, get 3 - 4 pounds total. That's almost $10,000 from almost no risk. 10 grand every 10 weeks really don't seem too bad for me. You could even live off a grand a week...
> 
> Hell, I'm probably being naive here. But what are your opinions?


and d00d, if your stoked that your ounces go for 150, get out here to socal, i see oz's go anywhere from 200-250$ for regs and a minimum 300-400 for kush and good herbs. a well grown crop of jack herer from my dealer who had 3/4 pound of it went for 450 an oz about a month ago and it got bought up within 3 days


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## Mr. Maryjane (May 4, 2008)

well, when they legalize weed, I think people should be allowed to open up shops, and sell it that way, they grow it, they sell it, and the government puts taxes on it. everybody wins. until I come in. then if somebody wants to run a potshop they're gonna have to work for me!!!!!!!!!!! 

I'm thinkin a couple bucks for a spliff
then double that for the blunts


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## roseypanties (May 9, 2008)

if they taxed it, it would be more expensive for us... go and get your licence and live with it. . . smoke on and believe a better future is before us.


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## Mr. Maryjane (May 9, 2008)

yeah, but without having to hide it, there could be entire fields full of maryjane, so the price would probably go down alot. here, for basic weed it's $5 a gram, if there's fields of it, they could sell a pack of joints just like cigs. even if they were $20, if there's 20 joints it works out to $1 a joint, and I couldn't get a licence, cause I just love marijuana, I don't need it to take care of any pain.


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## panhead (May 9, 2008)

KingOfBud said:


> I'm not sure if i actually would like to see cannabis legalized. From a growers perspective, the probation is gold! In my area alone, ounces of good bud are going for $150! You grow 5 plants, no chance of jail on first offense (here at least) sometimes not even a criminal record, get 3 - 4 pounds total. That's almost $10,000 from almost no risk. 10 grand every 10 weeks really don't seem too bad for me. You could even live off a grand a week...
> 
> Hell, I'm probably being naive here. But what are your opinions?


I used to think as you do & im some ways i still do,my biggest fear of the 100% legalization of mj in the united states is that the government will manage to fuck that up once they get involved in it for profit,if there's big money in it the government demands its cut first & always will.

Tax stamps,weak ass strains,even harsher penalties then we have right now for bootleggers,where the government will make up the lost revenue from lack of asset seizures,these are the things that worry me about legalization.


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## panhead (May 9, 2008)

Mr. Maryjane said:


> well, when they legalize weed, I think people should be allowed to open up shops, and sell it that way, they grow it, they sell it, and the government puts taxes on it. everybody wins. until I come in. then if somebody wants to run a potshop they're gonna have to work for me!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I'm thinkin a couple bucks for a spliff
> then double that for the blunts


You should read up on how much tax the government levies on a pack of smokes or a 6 pack of beer,the majority of the consumer cost is paid to the government in tax'es,if the government starts taxing pot the price will tripple over night.

There is allready a mj tax in the united states,its not implimented at this time but there is law on the books.


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## Mr. Maryjane (May 10, 2008)

yeah, but like I said in my last post, we won't have to hide it, so we could grow more. alot more. making the price drop, then when the government puts taxes on it, it couldn't cost much more than it does now for some killer weed. and pot doesn't rape the soil like tabacco, so maybe we could put a little spin on it. like, we're helping the earth man! and if my dream works out, pot will replace tabacco completely


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## Johnnyorganic (May 10, 2008)

roseypanties said:


> if they taxed it, it would be more expensive for us... go and get your licence and live with it. . . smoke on and believe a better future is before us.


Incorrect. Legalization and regulation would destabilize the black market and undermine the pressure it places on prices. Would cannabis be taxed heavily? You bet. However, the elimination of the embedded expense related to prohibition would neutralize any taxes due to regulation. Compared to now, weed would be vastly less expensive.


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## Dabu (May 10, 2008)

It wouldn't be nearly as exciting / thrilling to grow it if it were legal, though... would it?


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## Johnnyorganic (May 10, 2008)

Here's my idea of exciting and thrilling: Imagine a culture tolerant enough to openly accept cannabis use. A shift of our collective conscience. Away from kneejerk jugmentalism and punishment mentality. An entire class of people able to live free; publicly and without fear.


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## Mr. Maryjane (May 11, 2008)

I love the Idea of dank-ass bud, without having to pay 100/quarter, cause it'd be the same as cigerettes as far as I'm concerned. some shwag would be like rogers(it'd still end up being better than it is now), and some killer bud would be like the newports. and it'd be cheaper to grow than tobacco


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## Razi3L (May 13, 2008)

MagusALL said:


> i think the illegal enterprise is the worst part of marijuana cultivation. yeah it lets the non smokers get some buds but it also makes us all seem like drug dealers when were just weed tokers. if it were legalized the commercial growers would be out a job but for smokers, it would be way better. we would have the freedom to grow and smoke and not be considered criminals. so if youre a commercial grower it would suck but for smokers, it would simply be awesome.


Not necessarily, on the dealers perspective. If it were legalized then the Tobacco corporations are going to jump on it. Imagine packs of joints same size of cigarette packs at the cost of 15-20 for regs. I mean already rolled, seeds/steams pulled out and each Joint is packed as shit. The upside for the dealers/growers can get jobs for Phillip Morris and other corps as Marijuana Farmers. Still doing what you want and enjoy and still getting paid with benefits.


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## Zekedogg (May 13, 2008)

I think not wanting marijuana legalized because the dealers wont be making loot is wrong imo...I understand there are people who cant grow their own and need the help but to just look at it as strictly a purpose of making loot is the wrong attitude...There are many of other ways to make money....I grow bud and work, Whenever I do get rid of bud I basically give it away


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## Zekedogg (May 13, 2008)

and I also know there are many that grow for the sole purpose of making loot which I disagree with


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## Razi3L (May 13, 2008)

Johnnyorganic said:


> Incorrect. Legalization and regulation would destabilize the black market and undermine the pressure it places on prices. Would cannabis be taxed heavily? You bet. However, the elimination of the embedded expense related to prohibition would neutralize any taxes due to regulation. Compared to now, weed would be vastly less expensive.


 
Yes it will be taxed, however the consumer will not see the difference. The prices will most likely stay the same due to the fact of inflation, if the prices raise then there will be less purchases and more growing of their own. They will keep the prices the same and instead of the dealers making all the profit the money will go back into the economy. Lowering food prices, gas prices and other taxes.


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## Zekedogg (May 13, 2008)

I believe everything has a price, so if people offer me 20 bucks for my deeds then that is just fine...If people dont have loot and need, that is fine also...Dont be fooled, marijuana is in no way hard to grow and does not take your whole day away...Hell all I do is water them and time does the rest...Outdoor growers dont really have to do shit other than let nature take its course....If you claim growing marijuana takes your whole day and you work hard, its only because thats what you want it to do....I grow killer weed and it dont take shit to do


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## Ecldazed (May 14, 2008)

look at small beer companys.. you can still make money off of growing bud.... i jus cant wait to walk into a 7-11 and ask for a g of white widow or some shit.. it would be the best block party the day it is legalized.. by the way congress was introduced a bill to make pot legal.. vote ron paul for pres (he is backing it)


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## Hank (May 14, 2008)

When people ask me why should Marijuana be legalized i say.........Why Not

Hank


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## Wordz (May 14, 2008)

I think marijuana should be relegalized


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## Pookiedough (May 15, 2008)

I would loooove to see it legal if for no other reason than to stop these whack butt dealers around here from trying to sale an ounce of wet schwag for 500 bucks.To me that is taking advantage of the naive and those who have not learned the joys of DIY.And no before anyone asks I did not purchase the schwag,I tested was not impressed and sent him along his merry way.I was born at night,just not last night.


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## captain canabiss (May 18, 2008)

One aspect of legalizing marijuana that is often overlooked is the impact the economy would feel. Consider JOBLO spends 400 - 500 a month on his smoking needs. His buddy SOnSO spends 600 a month on weed and this happens everyday .everywhere.

Then suddenley legalazation happens and they can grow their dope in the garden out back without worry . Now JOBLO has $400 and SOnSO has $600 dollars a month they ain't spending on the friendly neighborhood pot purveyor. If they dont start spending it on other forms of illegal recreation then more then likely it will go back into the legal economy for consumer products. Soon across the nation everyone is growing their own dope without worry. 
Add up all the money not being spent on pot due to legalization and across the nation people are buying more consumer goods,not only increasing demand for products, but also creating new jobs.(hopefully in America, not outsourced overseas). 

C.C.


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## babylonburn (May 18, 2008)

Because It Is The Healing Of A Nation...and Is Mi Meditation In This Iration...burns Away All The Evil Thoughts In Ii Head....makes You Love To Love...makes You Forget About Time...time Kills...legalize Dont Criticize..show You Apprieciate We'll Cultivate As Ii Would Say


"every Herb Bearing Seed Is Put Here For The Service Of Man...as Grass For Cattle"


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## captain canabiss (May 19, 2008)

the statement about taxing pot has alot to do with it not being legal, As a taxable product Marijuana would be very difficult to govern over.reason being it can be grown by just about any one which makes it very difficult to regulate and tax. Compared to alcohol which involves a somewhat complicated process to produce. Making regulating and taxing alcohol a profitable venture for the gov.Marijuana would certainly be a difficult and expensive product to keep track of. The gov would lose a lot of money trying to find and get everyone that grows to pay their dope tax.Then the gov would have to create tasks forces to find all the black market pot that is not getting taxed and on and on it would go.
C.C.


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## Johnnyorganic (May 19, 2008)

There will always be a market for cannabis: legal or not. Countless more people use cannabis than grow it.

People can brew their own beer, they just can't sell it. Home brewers have a negligible impact on the commercial brewing interests. Brewers make money, the government gets its cut and home brewers are free to brew.


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## Mr. Maryjane (May 22, 2008)

captain canabiss said:


> the statement about taxing pot has alot to do with it not being legal, As a taxable product Marijuana would be very difficult to govern over.reason being it can be grown by just about any one which makes it very difficult to regulate and tax. Compared to alcohol which involves a somewhat complicated process to produce. Making regulating and taxing alcohol a profitable venture for the gov.Marijuana would certainly be a difficult and expensive product to keep track of. The gov would lose a lot of money trying to find and get everyone that grows to pay their dope tax.Then the gov would have to create tasks forces to find all the black market pot that is not getting taxed and on and on it would go.
> C.C.


 
that's why they have to make it easier to buy it, than grow it. cause personally, I'd rather buy a pack of squares than grow tobacco, it would be the same for weed(except for me, cause I just love everything about weed)


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## !manigethigh! (May 22, 2008)

if the government would tax seeds we all can be happy and live a seed can grow u how much? not to mention u can make seeds, everything would b good


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## captain canabiss (May 27, 2008)

one thing i know for sure is that the alcohol bone is connected to the cocaine bone ,


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## captain canabiss (May 27, 2008)

in response to johnnyorganic this is true,countless more people use pot compared to growing it. Do you think being scared of gettin' busted for growin' has anything to do with that? Don't you think those numbers would change if it was legal? You talk about home brewers ,they had to learn to brew but without the fear of getting caught hanging over their heads. If the gettin' busted was removed from the equation, there would be countless users ready willing and able to take gardening101 .


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## Johnnyorganic (May 27, 2008)

captain canabiss said:


> in response to johnnyorganic this is true,countless more people use pot compared to growing it. Do you think being scared of gettin' busted for growin' has anything to do with that? Don't you think those numbers would change if it was legal? You talk about home brewers ,they had to learn to brew but without the fear of getting caught hanging over their heads. If the gettin' busted was removed from the equation, there would be countless users ready willing and able to take gardening101 .


Without question, more people would grow. But more people would smoke, too. Most people don't grow their own food, but some do.

For many people, gardening is not fun. They prefer to purchase.


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## captain canabiss (May 28, 2008)

One of us is missing the point. We have had food so easily we take it for granted. It is a lot of work to grow yourself enough to eat. And they sell it at the store.This is the part where I get your point,they sell it in the store. 

As an old hippy lady that sold alot of drugs and made tons of money once said "there are just as many people who want it as there are who dont"

Have an OUTSTANDING DAY


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## rico.bezuidenhout (Jul 21, 2008)

Problem isn't the fact that the government can't tax and regulate marijuana.. The main reason this Plant is illegal is because of huge businesses with lotsa money and influence. These are the people who contributed toward the illegislation of it. The uses of this plant is so great, that, if you had to buy a pair of Hemp jeans instead of denim(which is made from cotton mostly), and this pair would last you 3-4 times longer than your best pair of Levi's... ... Therefor, weed is not legal as it makes big business men lose money...


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## rico.bezuidenhout (Jul 21, 2008)

why cant we all just get along?


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## tsdriles06 (Jul 21, 2008)

i love growing weed and stickin it to the man
i dont smoke weed i grow for the money
nothing against the drug i just dont do any drugs im a straight edge that got addicted to growing


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## hydrogrower420 (Jul 22, 2008)

KingOfBud said:


> I'm not sure if i actually would like to see cannabis legalized. From a growers perspective, the probation is gold! In my area alone, ounces of good bud are going for $150! You grow 5 plants, no chance of jail on first offense (here at least) sometimes not even a criminal record, get 3 - 4 pounds total. That's almost $10,000 from almost no risk. 10 grand every 10 weeks really don't seem too bad for me. You could even live off a grand a week...
> 
> Hell, I'm probably being naive here. But what are your opinions?


 dam over here its like 300 for an ounce thats reaguler street value..if u got good connections u could get it for cheaper though..


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## stonerboy1 (Jul 23, 2008)

i have never seen sum1 sell their vehicle jus to buy weed


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## stonerboy1 (Jul 23, 2008)

ive got such good connections i can get it for $60 a ounce and 240 for a pound


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## Razi3L (Sep 5, 2008)

stonerboy1 said:


> ive got such good connections i can get it for $60 a ounce and 240 for a pound


WOW!! How does that add up?? 4ounces = a lb??


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## 420Blunt's (Sep 5, 2008)

u must be smokin some dirt!! u meant 240 a QP right?


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## ItsDermot (Sep 5, 2008)

you want to know the benifits of legalization read the erperor wears no clothes by jack herer its the best hemp book peroid. Basically we want it legalized, so we can make fuel from it, make clothing from it, paints and varnishes from it, use it as medicine and cut 50 percent on the bush's family money thay have invested in phizer and oil, and its the only thing that can reverse the green house effect and save the earth. To not want it legal just so u can profit is selfish, you grow it to smoke not profit, you gotta look at the big picture. But yeah anyone whos never read or hear of it "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" by jack herer Heres just a couple of many reasons this should be legal. If you or anyone you know ever has a stroke it is the olny thing on the planet that will prevent you from getting brain damage. I bet those motherfuckers in dare never told u that when they were lying to us and telling us we will get brain damage and end up sterile for smoking it. Anyone out there have asthma? A hit a cannibis is know to stop a full blown asthma attack, its the worlds best bronchial dilater and its natural. You can find thousands of facts like this in that book, do yourself a favor and educate your self, then others.


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## howhigh123 (Sep 5, 2008)

i say dont legalize it..if they do legalize it..the goverment is goin to put tax on it..and fuck that..i rather grow and sell..make a couple g's and im good...so i say dont legalize it..and fuck the goverment..thats all..thank you for listening..


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## chronja (Sep 5, 2008)

i think if weed gets legalized it will turn out to be a bad thing. As much as i would like to say it would be better i think the price of weed would go up substantially due to taxes n stuff like look at cigarettes were already payin outa our ass but the shit kills ya....on top of that the growers might go outa buisiness depending on how much the weed would cost but if its too high i think there might still be growers but the fuckin pigs will never keep to themselves and they will always be lookin for grow ops but i dunno i guess well see what happens


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## Johnnyorganic (Sep 5, 2008)

howhigh123 said:


> i say dont legalize it..if they do legalize it..the goverment is goin to put tax on it..and fuck that..i rather grow and sell..make a couple g's and im good...so i say dont legalize it..and fuck the goverment..thats all..thank you for listening..


By all means. Let's continue to keep that existing activity out of the legitimate economy. Who needs all those jobs anyway? Supporting the cartels is a good thing. 

As for taxes, more than half the price of alcohol is tax. More so with tobacco. It's the nature of 'sin' taxes.


chronja said:


> i think if weed gets legalized it will turn out to be a bad thing. As much as i would like to say it would be better i think the price of weed would go up substantially due to taxes n stuff like look at cigarettes were already payin outa our ass but the shit kills ya....on top of that the growers might go outa buisiness depending on how much the weed would cost but if its too high i think there might still be growers but the fuckin pigs will never keep to themselves and they will always be lookin for grow ops but i dunno i guess well see what happens


When prohibition ended, the price of alcohol went down because the black market took a bigger cut during prohibition than taxes did after prohibition. Why would cannabis be different?

When cannabis is re-legalized, it will have a ripple effect on out economy because industrial hemp will be a factor once again. Not to mention all the money taxpayers will save by not arresting, trying, and imprisoning cannabis users.


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## grape swisha (Sep 5, 2008)

it shouldnt be legalized cuz they would tax the shit outta it but i think it should be decriminalized federally.


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## 420Blunt's (Sep 5, 2008)

if it was legalized they could try and tax it but everybody would grow their own in their back yard and say fuck the taxes. of course ppl would still buy but prob not the stoners


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## grape swisha (Sep 5, 2008)

its whatever people who smoke now gonna stay smokin nothin will change except maybe laws.


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## li0n (Sep 5, 2008)

its legal in my home..& everyones invited


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## chronja (Sep 6, 2008)

> Not to mention all the money taxpayers will save by not arresting, trying, and imprisoning cannabis users.


you think the government would completely stop that nooo the govenment are cons remember they would still waste lots of money lookin for grow shows for the fact that we would never buy off them and they would want their cut


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## Johnnyorganic (Sep 6, 2008)

chronja said:


> you think the government would completely stop that nooo the govenment are cons remember they would still waste lots of money lookin for grow shows for the fact that we would never buy off them and they would want their cut


You speak of the world as it is. We speak of the world once cannabis is re-legalized.

The only reason to go after grows after re-legalization would be for tax evasion. Just like bootleggers are pursued now. Make your own beer or wine and the government will not fuck with you unless you sell it.


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## ta2drvn (Sep 7, 2008)

Prohibition only benefits those willing to risk there freedom in exchange for profits. 

#1) Legalization would not mean most people will grow their own. Most people didn't do this with tobacco (and look how addictive that is... if ever there was a motivation to grow your own, addiction would be high on the list) most people don't do this with alcohol. Those that do as a hobby will be able to save some money, those that do it commercially will become the commercial growers that supply those that don't, won't or can't, just like now; only in a larger scale, just like today's tobacco farmers. 

2) Farmers will also be able to grow HEMP!!! This would generate income for farmers and help secure our nation as an industrial hemp leader and very well could help replace numerous materials that companies have to produce pollution and harmful chemicals in order to make.

3) Taxes; First let me ask a question. 

Would you rather pay $0 taxes or $1,000,000 in taxes? 

I'm willing to bet that 95+% of those that have mentioned negative view points on the subject will answer $0, but if you have to pay $1M in taxes how much money did you make in order to have to pay that? Also wouldn't you have a pretty good tax guy if you made enough to pay those kind of taxes, so this is probably a very low % of income relatively speaking.

Tax the commercial use of marijuana and you could have the potential for lower income taxes; revenue that could be redistributed for research, education, health care, ect.


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## WWgrower (Sep 7, 2008)

This has got to be one of the top ten stupidest questions posed on here!


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## puff tuff (Sep 11, 2008)

*September 11, 2008*

*Marijuana Could Be a Gusher of Cash If We Treated It Like a Crop, Not a Crime*

*Economists estimate tens of billions for governments if we taxed pot like tobacco and stopped wasting money on the drug war. *

*By Steven Wishnia*
*AlterNet*

If marijuana were legal but taxed like alcohol and tobacco, how much money could it bring in to cash-strapped state governments?

One 2006 study called cannabis the top cash crop in the nation, worth more than corn and wheat combined. It was the leading crop in 12 states, outstripping grapes in California and tobacco in North Carolina, and one of the top three in 18 others, coming in just behind apples in Washington and cotton in Georgia. So with states facing massive deficits, could reefer revenues help?

The answer is unclear, but it could be lucrative for governments, especially when combined with the savings from ending prohibition. As the U.S. marijuana market is illegal, there are no sales figures. Estimates of its size range from $10.5 billion a year to $113 billion. But three studies done by economists and policy analysts say ganja taxes could bring in anywhere from $2.4 billion to $31.1 billion in revenue, depending on how big the sales really are. About one-third of that would go to the states.
"There's not enough really good data on it, so it's probably best to look at it in ballpark figures," says Jon Gettman, a Virginia policy analyst who has worked with the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws and the Marijuana Policy Project. "But there's a consensus that there's an awful lot of marijuana out there and that it's very valuable."

"The Budgetary Implications of Marijuana Prohibition," a 2005 study by Harvard economics professor Jeffrey A. Miron, makes the most conservative projections of the three studies. It calculates possible pot tax revenues at $2.4 billion. That's assuming that prices would drop about 25 percent under legalization, that pot-related economic activities were taxed at the national average of 30 percent, and that the federal Office of National Drug Control Policy's estimate that the domestic cannabis market is worth $10.5 billion is accurate. If herb were taxed more heavily, as alcohol and cigarettes are, that could bring in as much as $9.5 billion -- although excessive "sin taxes" could cause pot smokers to cut down or grow their own, diminishing revenues.

States with higher rates of marijuana use, such as California and New York, would collect a somewhat higher proportion of taxes than states with lower rates, such as Pennsylvania and Texas. Miron estimates that California would take in $105 million at ordinary levels of taxation.

However, others in the field believe that the government's $10.5 billion figure is absurdly low. Dan Hamburg, a former congressman from Northern California's sinsemilla belt, says the Mendocino County Board of Supervisors estimates bud production in that county alone at between $1 billion and $1.5 billion, worth far more than timber and grapes. California's medical marijuana dispensary owners claim they pay $100 million a year in state sales taxes.

The methods used to estimate the size of the marijuana market involve a great deal of speculation. Determining the supply involves taking the amount of domestic and imported marijuana seized by law enforcement, guessing what percentage of the total amount of homegrown and smuggled weed that represents, and extrapolating from there. Additional variables include how much a single plant can yield -- anywhere from less than an ounce to more than a pound -- and the retail price, which can be loosely sensed from the reader-contributed snippets in High Times magazine's monthly market quotations ("Chicago, Purple Kush, $450/oz") and the Drug Enforcement Administration's STRIDE index, which narcotics agents use to figure out how much to pay for the drugs they try to buy. 
Demand can be estimated from government and academic household surveys of drug use -- but these are far from specific, especially when you use the limited data on frequency of use to try to figure out how much people spend on pot.

"It's hard to match the supply-and-demand data," says Gettman. "Sometimes you don't know what it is, but you know what it's not." He estimates the value of the U.S. weed market at $113 billion, based on a supply of more than 14 million kilos, an average retail price of about $220 an ounce, and between 25 million and 40 million pot smokers.

That number seems high. It would require 40 million people to spend an average of $55 a week on weed. But Gettman cites United Nations data that has estimated U.S. cannabis cultivation at 10 million to 14 million kilos for the past several years. The federal government has reduced its estimate of domestic production from 10 million kilos in 2002 to between 2.8 million and 6.6 million kilos in 2006, but those figures, he says, are "complete politics." They're based on the assumption that law enforcement eradicates 30 to 50 percent of all the pot plants grown in the United States, and that plants average a pound each.

As for demand, "there is a small amount of people who go through an incredible amount of pot." On the other hand, many of the heaviest ganja users are growers and dealers who go into the business in part so they can essentially get free pot and don't have to pay retail prices for the amounts they smoke.

Gettman's 2006 study "Marijuana Production in the United States" estimated the domestic crop at 10 million kilos, worth a total of $35.8 billion.

California NORML's estimates are in that ballpark. In 2003, the group figured that if 600,000 to 700,000 people in the state smoke two cigarette-size joints every day and 1 million smoke one joint every 10 days, then the total market in the state would be $3 billion to $5 billion under legalization -- at the lower end if prices dropped to the Dutch average of about $170 an ounce, at the higher end if consumption increased. State sales taxes would generate $240 million to $400 million, and a $56-an-ounce excise tax could bring in another $1 billion. If pot were taxed at the same 50 percent rate as cigarettes, total revenues would be $1.5 billion to $2.5 billion. Nationally, California NORML claims, a $56-an-ounce tax would bring in $6 billion to $13 billion.

Miron dislikes the concept of such "sin taxes," saying it's a bad idea to tax what's "politically unpopular." But he says they're generally effective if consistent throughout a federal system, where people can't go to a state with lower costs. If the tax is too high, however, people might try to evade it by growing their own. Miron thinks that won't be significant. 
"Some people are going to buy tomatoes in a supermarket, and some are going to grow their own," he says. "Most people will opt for convenience." 
On the other hand, given that home growing has become widespread and well-entrenched in the last 30 years, potheads fetishize strains like White Widow and Bubbleberry, and herb costs significantly more than tomatoes, it's likely that many people would do their own gardening if the danger of prison and forfeiture were lifted.

Legislators active on cannabis issues have not investigated the revenue possibilities much. "I don't think I could even begin to put a number on it, because there are so many variables," says a staffer for New York State Assemblymember Richard Gottfried, who has sponsored several 
unsuccessful medical marijuana bills recently. Instead, they focus on the money that would be saved by not prosecuting marijuana users or that could be gained by farming industrial hemp.

Massachusetts state Sen. Patricia Jehlen, sponsor of a bill to reduce the penalty for possession of less than an ounce to a $250 fine, calls trying to project pot tax revenues "speculative," but she says decriminalization would save the state $24 million a year.

Miron's study estimates that "legalizing marijuana would save $7.7 billion per year in government enforcement of prohibition," with $2.4 billion of that going to the states. Gettman's 2007 report says "marijuana arrests cost taxpayers $10.7 billion annually."

Northern California's Humboldt and Mendocino counties, where marijuana is a crucial part of the economy, have been frustrated in their efforts to get direct revenues from it, according to Hamburg. Schemes proposed in Mendocino included having the county sell permits for $25 a plant and setting up a growers' cooperative that would inspect, certify and market medical herb crops as organically and locally grown. But "anything we came up with along those lines, our lawyers said was impossible."

Miron says potential tax income is "the least important reason to legalize" cannabis when compared with the "horrific" precedents prohibition sets for government power and the damage criminalization does to users. And even at the highest estimates, reefer revenues would not be enough to cover budget deficits the size of California's estimated $15 billion, New York's $6.4 billion, Florida's $1.5 billion, or Massachusetts' $1.3 billion. Still, the combination of reducing expenditures on enforcement and collecting taxes on legal sales could help save the states from having to lay off workers or cut health care payments.

NORML head Allen St. Pierre says that when he was lobbying in Texas last year for a bill that would let local governments decriminalize marijuana possession, one legislator told him that prohibition "is no longer a luxury we can afford." The Austinist, noting that marijuana possession accounts for about 7 percent of arrests in the state at a cost of $2,000 each, called the bill "a money-saving effort more than anything else." 

_Steven Wishnia is a New York-based journalist and musician. The author of Exit 25 Utopia and The Cannabis Companion, he has won two New York City Independent Press Association awards for his coverage of housing issues. He is looking for a job._

AlterNet


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