# Accidental big yield technique, vertical growing, but not exactly ?



## davillains (Jan 26, 2018)

hello everyone, 
I got 14oz from one plant in a 2.5x2.5 tent and 280w Led light, the details with video & harvest pictures are on this thread: http://rollitup.org/t/massive-blue-dream-hso.957438/

All branches had to be supercropped to accomodate the plant's height inside the tent, the result was all buds laid down horizontally gained massive beef probably from the equal light distance. I've made a quick/dirty drawing below to illustrate: 

 

Could this be a new canopy management thing ? Has anyone tried supercropping the canopy to this end ?


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## davillains (Jan 26, 2018)




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## OneHitDone (Jan 26, 2018)

While that is indeed an impressive biomass, the bud structure is not very becoming / bagable.
Would be interesting for you to try it again and see if the results are the same


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## gr865 (Jan 27, 2018)

OneHitDone said:


> While that is indeed an impressive biomass, the bud structure is not very becoming / bagable.
> Would be interesting for you to try it again and see if the results are the same


If he is not selling then baggability is not an issue. Though it is nice to pull a big fat one out when friends show up, quality is more important. 
This grow did not produce bag appeal like what I have bought in CO but the quality is as good or better than most I have purchased there. I know they produce for bag appeal, but IMHO, they over trim. Using those trim machines seems to beat the hell out of the buds and one can only imagine the amount of Trichs knocked off the finished product. 
And biomass, which I like, due to making Cannabis Oil from a combo of buds and shake, I believe is a growers choice. They can do selective defo during the grow to reduce biomass to increase light penetration or leave it on, which, from what I have experienced covers bud sites and reduces light penetration. 
I am not looking to get into a defo conversation as everyone has their own opinion on that topic!  
But, from the pics of his grow looks like some select defo would help overall production and bag appeal. 
@ Devillians, Not knocking you grow bud, you did a bangup job with that amount of space and that amount of light. 

GR


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## llnknth (Jan 27, 2018)

i think that would promote foxtailing and unwanted lateral bud growth....


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## gr865 (Jan 27, 2018)

llnknth said:


> i think that would promote foxtailing and unwanted lateral bud growth....


Whay would cause those two conditions?


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## llnknth (Jan 28, 2018)

am i right that he wants to lay the colas horizontal?


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## Nafydad420 (Jan 28, 2018)

gr865 said:


> Whay would cause those two conditions?


im glad you put this theory to action! i actually have been thinking about this myself.. hope to hear more about it!


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## davillains (Jan 28, 2018)

llnknth said:


> i think that would promote foxtailing and unwanted lateral bud growth....


@llnknth you are not wrong about the lateral bud growth but I don't think it promotes foxtailing, that happens anyway depending on strain/conditions. The buds on this sativa lack the bag appeal as @OneHitDone mentioned though, I don't think it would be a good technique for commercial growing. I pulled a bud that looked like a hand with fingers ..shit was funny.
For homegrowers that are looking to increase their yield however it's worth further investigation.


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## coreywebster (Jan 28, 2018)

I think if you did it before stretch instead of after you would end up with the same weight but better bud density. More light can get to more bud sites that way. The structure would be different, more like the horns of a deer.
I know what you mean about the fingers. One of mine has similar appearance. But I think it was because they were a little too crowded and the stringy branch was in the corner of the tent. The rest of them are pretty dense. Also I got a bit of bleaching on one plant on the tops of the colas. First time I have every had that and it must be the strain. I have had indicas closer to my COBs without ever seeing bleaching.


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## HydroEnthused (Mar 14, 2018)

davillains said:


> @llnknth you are not wrong about the lateral bud growth but I don't think it promotes foxtailing, that happens anyway depending on strain/conditions. The buds on this sativa lack the bag appeal as @OneHitDone mentioned though, I don't think it would be a good technique for commercial growing. I pulled a bud that looked like a hand with fingers ..shit was funny.
> For homegrowers that are looking to increase their yield however it's worth further investigation.


If you lay the colas down horizontally later on in flowering (beyond the start of the 4th week) the bracts separate to reach for the light, apart from the whole bud. Foxtailing is definitely what you get.
Throw those foxtailed buds into a tightly vacuum packed bag (after drying and curing) and maybe that tightens them up a little but many will break apart if they are thoroughly dry. If the technique makes more weight it’s a great method of getting more out of an extraction, appeal be damned.
More yield=More fun...weather it goes in the bag or the column.


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2018)

Laying the branches down flat after stretch is a great way to maximise yield in a tight space. This isn't a vertical grow technique but that doesn't mean it isn't effective.


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## Cold$moke (Mar 16, 2018)

Its been done im sure many times by noobs who underestimated the stretch

My reason for this mess was a mother run so i like to run untopped from seed to see how they are naturally.

Beware not my best work but not bad for having 12 or so different strains in this one system lol


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## macsnax (Jul 14, 2018)

coreywebster said:


> I think if you did it before stretch instead of after you would end up with the same weight but better bud density. More light can get to more bud sites that way. The structure would be different, more like the horns of a deer.
> I know what you mean about the fingers. One of mine has similar appearance. But I think it was because they were a little too crowded and the stringy branch was in the corner of the tent. The rest of them are pretty dense. Also I got a bit of bleaching on one plant on the tops of the colas. First time I have every had that and it must be the strain. I have had indicas closer to my COBs without ever seeing bleaching.


Google "hash tips"


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## Overgrowthegov (Jul 14, 2018)

I do this all the time when I run out of vertical space or get too close to the lights and can't raise them any more. The bud structure does indeed look different but it depends on the strain also. Last strain Blue Cheese foxtailed bigtime when I pinched the tops and laid them down. I find it does increase yield, so I do it whenever a plant gets too tall.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Jul 14, 2018)

I pinch and bend or lst and tie down branches to keep my bushes 30” or less tall. 

The branch on the left was super cropped with the pinch method and bent down parallel to the floor. 

Each bud grows back up towards the light and the calyx connected.


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## charface (Jul 14, 2018)

So if a bud were bent down and held down, i see how fox tailing could happen but beyond that does the underside of the bud ripen at the same rate as the top?


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## charface (Jul 14, 2018)

So if a bud were bent down and held down, i see how fox tailing could happen but beyond that does the underside of the bud ripen at the same rate as the top?


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## Overgrowthegov (Jul 14, 2018)

charface said:


> So if a bud were bent down and held down, i see how fox tailing could happen but beyond that does the underside of the bud ripen at the same rate as the top?


IME, yes it does. Strain dependent with regards to foxtailing, again that's IME. For some strains the buds split into several and almost start their own individual development foxtailing. You can see it in this pic of Blue Cheese. This pheno did this with every bud laid down, and there wasn't too much heat or too close to the light, it was with QB lights.


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## JDMase (Jul 16, 2018)

Is this a mainline technique?


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## zypheruk (Jul 16, 2018)

Have noticed this a few times when removing my scrog net and letting the branches flop about for an extra week while I start chopping others. Makes no difference to the actual smoke, just the shape of the buds.
Fair play to the OP great results.


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## ilovetoskiatalta (Aug 25, 2018)

davillains said:


> hello everyone,
> I got 14oz from one plant in a 2.5x2.5 tent and 280w Led light, the details with video & harvest pictures are on this thread: http://rollitup.org/t/massive-blue-dream-hso.957438/
> 
> All branches had to be supercropped to accomodate the plant's height inside the tent, the result was all buds laid down horizontally gained massive beef probably from the equal light distance. I've made a quick/dirty drawing below to illustrate:
> ...


I grew some apple pie from reeferman years ago and she was all sativa. I ended up putting her in the corner because she stretched so much and I laid her horizontayl in early flower. All the branches turned up by the 4th week with proper support. It was not ideal but it solved my 8' sativa problem with 7' ceilings. Pretty amazing how this plant adapts to the environment.


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## Flowki (Sep 24, 2018)

The issue for me is that if you are topping enough times and filling the net you would not have space or need to lay any buds down. If you under fill the net by accident then I guess this is a possible technique to use up more light?.

Uncle ben use to do a similar technique with a single topped plant. As the 4 colas weighted up they bent over by themselves allowing light to penetrate deeper into the plant. It's obviously an older technique since you can get better more consistent yield with multiple topped scrog. But you know, still a cool trick for back then.


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## cues (Oct 1, 2018)

I tried something when CFL lighting became cheap/subsidised. It involved making football/rugby ball shaped structures out of chicken wire and trying to scrog around them. Went terribly but future hps grows went better Started with normal scrog (pulling about 16oz off 4 plants in a 250MH veg, 600HPS flower consistantley despite temp problems). Then I had to downsize so did a U-scrog, pulled about-5 oz off a plant under a 250 in a very limited head-space. Finally, I did a normal vertical scrog in the same pace and pulled around six oz. I haven't grown weed for a few years but when i grow again, it will be a vertical scrog, probably starting 250 hps, working up to 400, then a cooltube to finish.
A few points with vertical scrog. 
At stretch, you will be pulling branches back behind the screen almost daily. 
You get more buds but smaller. More trimming etc. Less sticks in your weed though.
Personally, I've found that even if the bulb is dropped right down below the middle of the scrog, the buds still head upwards.


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## Porky101 (Oct 22, 2018)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> I pinch and bend or lst and tie down branches to keep my bushes 30” or less tall.
> 
> The branch on the left was super cropped with the pinch method and bent down parallel to the floor.
> 
> ...


how long do you veg for???


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## MichiganMedGrower (Oct 28, 2018)

Porky101 said:


> how long do you veg for???



Sorry I was away for a bit. I vegged that plant about 5 weeks.


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## Thedunnaman (Nov 24, 2018)

I don’t care what it looks like, 14 zips in a small tent, with little light! Bravo ! That is a amazing yield!


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