# Yeast+h20+Sugar vs vinegar+Baking Soda



## sativaplanet420 (Dec 22, 2008)

Which method of c02 production is better?


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## freddythekruger (Dec 22, 2008)

neither are very efficient if you have any type of airflow or exhaust.


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## sativaplanet420 (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm going for cheap. I turn off my oscillating fan when the lights are on, and I have a carbon filter which runs every other hour. . . . .


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## MrHowardMarks (Dec 25, 2008)

Both are very low concentrations, probably won't make a noticable difference.

Depends on what you want to smell, vinegar? or the rotting nasty yeast...?


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## freddythekruger (Dec 25, 2008)

why do you turn off the fan when the lights are on? most people do the opposite to keep the heat from building up around the plants...


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## sativaplanet420 (Dec 25, 2008)

To build up more c02 and My grow room is cold as shit.


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## MrHowardMarks (Dec 25, 2008)

:forehead slap:

Read up a bit man, if there isn't airflow around the plants, oxygen builds up around them... To suffocating levels. Plants take in co2 and release o2, if you don't circulate the air around the o2 will just sit around the plant.

Also.

CO2 is best absorbed from 82-85 degrees F. The pores on the leaves will open up to respirate and the co2 will be better utilized, anything under 75 degrees F is basically useless... Without co2 you want to stay above 65 degrees F, the 70-75 range is best...


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## tusseltussel (Dec 25, 2008)

sativaplanet420 said:


> Which method of c02 production is better?


useless, useless and useless, may as well poop on the florr for co2 and pee on your plants for nutes. if cant afford a proper setup circulation is yer best frnd


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## MrHowardMarks (Dec 25, 2008)

Sup tusseltussel tusseltussel tusseltussel tusseltussel tusseltussel...


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## tusseltussel (Dec 25, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Sup tusseltussel tusseltussel tusseltussel tusseltussel tusseltussel...


 happy holidays i can tussel your hair if ya want ,pat ya on the head and say run along ya lil scamp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpdl2ZAeSA8&feature=PlayList&p=B70029A5E61D1B1B&playnext=1&index=12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMALI54bbuI enjoy...........love the christmass avatar


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## MrHowardMarks (Dec 25, 2008)

Hahahahaha


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## tusseltussel (Dec 25, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Hahahahaha


thanks for the rep its nice to get it from someone who actually makes a difrance....



as for the op. you will get a lot more out of proper circulation than any diy co2 setup so get that figured out first exhaust should be on. circulation fan, ON if temp is cool put exhaust on a temp switch, you can get one at your local hardware store, near the attic fans. keep the circulation fan on and have the exhaust come on when temp gets to 78 and shut off whan drops to 7


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## potpimp (Dec 26, 2008)

I smell cookies.


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## sativaplanet420 (Dec 27, 2008)

I just pooped on my floor and my c02 levels are through the roof! I peed on a couple of plants but my pee is too strong and needs to be diluted, I got a little nute burn. . . .


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## tusseltussel (Dec 28, 2008)

sativaplanet420 said:


> I just pooped on my floor and my c02 levels are through the roof! I peed on a couple of plants but my pee is too strong and needs to be diluted, I got a little nute burn. . . .


 lol take a picture i dnt belive you actually squaTED AND SQUEEZED ONE OUT NEXT TO YOUR PLANTS, works for oder control too prolly


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## flhokies (Jan 3, 2009)

i don't know man I have heard great results with the cheap yeast, sugar and h2o. I am trying it know also trying molasses.


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## born2killspam (Jan 4, 2009)

CH3COOH + NaHCO3 ---> CH3COONa + H2O + CO2
(Technically Vinegar + Baking Soda ---> Sodium Acetate + Carbonic Acid before the Carbonic acid decomposes to CO2 and water)
Regardless, baking soda weighs 84g/mol and acetic acid weighs 60g/mol (but that works out to roughly 1200-1500mL of vinegar, not to mention that baking soda decomposes to baking powder in heat/time which yields less)..
So chemically its a 1:1 reaction, but physically its more like 15:1 Vinegar:BS.. If you mix 84g of BS into ~1.2L of vingar you should get 44g (1mole) of CO2 which will dilute to about 15000L (550cuft) of ideal 1500ppm plant air..
Calibrating the output rate may be a challenge, but is better than fermentation if you want timed charges rather than steady CO2..
I've outlined the chemistry of yeast too many times on these forums already (MrHowardMarks will probably agree), but generally you're looking at a CO2 production of about 1/2 the initial mass of sugar added with anaerobic respiration (alcohol producing fermentation) or 1.5x the initial sugar mass if you add oxygen to reproduce yeast rather than make alcohol)..
So fermenting a pound of sugar will produce about 75000L (2700cuft) of ideal air over the period, and growing yeast 3x as much.. 
Fermentation (probably waay cheaper) is not steady through the game though, so ideally you would want maybe 2-4 small fermentations stagger started (like a perpetual grow) a couple days apart going..

There are thousands of other feasible options too.. Even candles from the dollar store are an option if you burn them (contained safely!) in an abundance of oxygen.. I've personally been investigating the idea of ozone reacting with varbon to produce CO2.. Output rate calibration is key to any CO2 setup.. Its easy to make though.. if it wasn't, Al Gore would be a nobody today..


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## born2killspam (Jan 4, 2009)

flhokies said:


> i don't know man I have heard great results with the cheap yeast, sugar and h2o. I am trying it know also trying molasses.


Yeast LOVE molasses.. They actually need some healthy food stuffs that molasses can provide, (most ppl here seem to think yeast eat refined sugar, so they don't add a real food source, but its actually more like meth to them.. This causes incomplete fermentation..) but molasses is more expensive (I can get it for $2/Kg at the bulk store though), and contains many unfermentable sugars that stress the yeast osmotically like fermentable sugars (yeast can only survive about 35% sugar max)..
A pure molasses fermentation will produce an exquisite heavy body rum after its distilled, but unless you stagger the molasses addition you can only get the wort up to about 10%abv..
Brown sugar is a damn ideal mix, but is much more expensive then just adding a bit of molasses to white sugar..
Then again, if this heavy rum notion intrigues you then there is NOTHING better IMO than Demerara sugar! Its pure cane sugar/juice grown along the Demerara river.. I'm a long time hobby distiller, and I have no problem paying 10x as much as normal for that stuff..

As far as sugar content goes, molasses needs to be added as if it was 100% sugar to protect the yeast initially, but in reality, 'Fancy' molasses is about 75-85% fermentable, 'Black Strap' is about 60% IIRC.. 
Dry feed molasses like you can buy from farmers can be less than 20%, but highly variable.. If you live in the country and want to use that, then you should measure its specific gravity if you intend to use it for the sugar, and not just the vitamins it contains..


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## weedyoo (Jan 4, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Yeast LOVE molasses.. They actually need some healthy food stuffs that molasses can provide, (most ppl here seem to think yeast eat refined sugar, so they don't add a real food source, but its actually more like meth to them.. This causes incomplete fermentation..) but molasses is more expensive (I can get it for $2/Kg at the bulk store though), and contains many unfermentable sugars that stress the yeast osmotically like fermentable sugars (yeast can only survive about 35% sugar max)..
> A pure molasses fermentation will produce an exquisite heavy body rum after its distilled, but unless you stagger the molasses addition you can only get the wort up to about 10%abv..
> Brown sugar is a damn ideal mix, but is much more expensive then just adding a bit of molasses to white sugar..
> Then again, if this heavy rum notion intrigues you then there is NOTHING better IMO than Demerara sugar! Its pure cane sugar/juice grown along the Demerara river.. I'm a long time hobby distiller, and I have no problem paying 10x as much as normal for that stuff..
> ...



i get very good results with my 5 gal bucket of sugar yeast 

i am going to try out some diffrent types of sugars thanks


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