# Uncle Ben's 4 cola topping VS FIM



## NanoGadget (Jan 1, 2017)

Is there any significant difference between the two? Impact on veg time, vigor and size of the resulting colas, ease of execution? Anything?


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## oilfield bud (Jan 2, 2017)

Topping gets me 2 colas that grow evenly every time. Fimming seems to take just a lil bit longer for me but gets me several sporadic colas vs just 2. I prefer topping if im gonna low stres train. I actually have 4 plants right now that are just way to bushy from Fimming to even try to lst


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## oilfield bud (Jan 2, 2017)

Just try both ways and se what you prefer man


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## NanoGadget (Jan 2, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately for this grow I'm running a single plant right now so comparing and contrasting is not possible. I was specifically talking about UBs 4 cola topping method (wait until 4th or 5th node and top just above the second node to get 4 colas.) I'll probably just use that method as I've topped plenty of times but never FIM'd and I don't want to fuck around too much when I only have one plant.. haha


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## Morriston55 (Jan 2, 2017)

I top and mainline for 8 or 10 colas. 4 doesnt seem to use the space of the tent efficiently, but 8 main colas are still donkey dick enough that trimming time is a breeze


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## NanoGadget (Jan 2, 2017)

Morriston55 said:


> I top and mainline for 8 or 10 colas. 4 doesnt seem to use the space of the tent efficiently, but 8 main colas are still donkey dick enough that trimming time is a breeze


I have no experience with mainlining. I've seen posts about it and seen pictures of it and the procedure always looked a little scary to me.. lol. I'll have to do some research. Any how to guides or good threads you think I should look at?


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## NanoGadget (Jan 2, 2017)

Just did some quick research on mainlining. Found a good how to on growweedeasy. What is you total veg time typically with your method?


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## MrVega2 (Jan 2, 2017)

Mainline...
Cut...
Trim..
Top...
Bend em break em pin em down...
Mainlinin is cool n makes for a pretty plant...I kinda follow that technique but not strictly...
Just experiment...get creative...I jus visualize what I want the plant to do n then treat that bitch like a Bonzai tree...I remember when Nugbuckets first started showin his Mainlinin method...I've never followed it perfectly but basically I top em early... Spread em out n pin em down makin the branches grow out instead of up...In the process you'll get several productive branches manifest...It takes a little extra time n patience but pays off


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 3, 2017)

MrVega2 said:


> Mainline...
> Cut...
> Trim..
> Top...
> ...


Is that the same plant in all the pics? How long did you train it before switching to flower?


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## NanoGadget (Jan 3, 2017)

MrVega2 said:


> Mainline...
> Cut...
> Trim..
> Top...
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. My intention is to top and LST for sure. I was looking for at least 8 colas. Mainline just looks a little more extreme than I want to go considering it's a single plant run and if I totally fuck it up I have no backup and would have to try to pull a clone or start from seed again and lose a bunch of time. I'm starting to think multiple toppings and a bunch of training is going to be the closest thing to what I want without stepping way out of my comfort zone.


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## MrVega2 (Jan 3, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Is that the same plant in all the pics? How long did you train it before switching to flower?


Nah... That's like 3diff plants in diff stages...
Average round 50-60days veg/training


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## MrVega2 (Jan 3, 2017)

NanoGadget said:


> Thanks for the feedback. My intention is to top and LST for sure. I was looking for at least 8 colas. Mainline just looks a little more extreme than I want to go considering it's a single plant run and if I totally fuck it up I have no backup and would have to try to pull a clone or start from seed again and lose a bunch of time. I'm starting to think multiple toppings and a bunch of training is going to be the closest thing to what I want without stepping way out of my comfort zone.


I understand...


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## Flowki (Jan 5, 2017)

If trying to fill out for around a 2 to 3 foot plant after stretch then topping for 4 may be the quickest and easiest to manege plant fit for flower if you have a 8 week germination/cutting+ veg window. You won't have to worry about accidentally splitting stems or what not as with other techniques.

You can top those 4 mains again around mid veg for 8 tops if you have about 10 weeks veg to play with. If on a perpetual and taking cuttings 2 weeks before the mature veg plants were to go into flower room that would gain you a 10 week window if they are a 8 week flower.

Mainlining (well the true version at-least) does not look worth it unless you have a minimum of 10 weeks. If you look at a lot of pics from people who do it they have 8 tops but on really small plants. Doing uncle bens way but topping for 8 will give a better plant in that duration and in any higher duration imo as you still have all the side, mid and off branching sites that will be in decent range for 600w+ lighting.

Fim looks like a mess of really uneven canopy or a lot of management to somewhat level it all out.

My vote would be ub4 if about 8 week total cutting/veg (maybe you can top for 8 with a nice big plant in that time if you are skilled).

Extend ub4 to 8 tops if you have 10 week window. You can also slightly bend the 8 tops if they are doing too well, then you end up with even more tops as some of the mid sites will reach into better light range. As none of the lower branching has been bent or tied down their will be plenty to choose from. That's another turn off for the original mainlining in that once it's set you can't adapt it like that. The other forms of mainlining/lst look like a more difficult way of doing ub for 8 tops imo.

If more time than 10 weeks and you really enjoy messing around then consider doing scrog?.

Hopefully this qualifies as good info ^^.


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## NanoGadget (Jan 5, 2017)

Flowki said:


> If trying to fill out for around a 2 to 3 foot plant after stretch then topping for 4 may be the quickest and easiest to manege plant fit for flower if you have a 8 week germination/cutting+ veg window. You won't have to worry about accidentally splitting stems or what not as with other techniques.
> 
> You can top those 4 mains again around mid veg for 8 tops if you have about 10 weeks veg to play with. If on a perpetual and taking cuttings 2 weeks before the mature veg plants were to go into flower room that would gain you a 10 week window if they are a 8 week flower.
> 
> ...


That is a lot of info! I appreciate it greatly! I was thinking about going for 8 colas, but this plant is so damn bushy and short so far that I don't know what to think. I'm kind of leaning towards UB's 4 top method with a bit of LST to spread it out a bit until it decides to stretch a little. Here she is over the last few days (first pic is from the 3rd, the last few are from last night and today)    Her first true leaves peeked out on the 21st or the 22nd of December so I guess I'm a couple days past 2 weeks since the start of veg.


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## green217 (Jan 5, 2017)

NanoGadget said:


> That is a lot of info! I appreciate it greatly! I was thinking about going for 8 colas, but this plant is so damn bushy and short so far that I don't know what to think. I'm kind of leaning towards UB's 4 top method with a bit of LST to spread it out a bit until it decides to stretch a little. Here she is over the last few days (first pic is from the 3rd, the last few are from last night and today)View attachment 3869188 View attachment 3869189 View attachment 3869190 View attachment 3869191 Her first true leaves peeked out on the 21st or the 22nd of December so I guess I'm a couple days past 2 weeks since the start of veg.


Those aren't big enough to label as bushy yet. I don't see any side branching, they aren't quite large enough though so no worries. I personally FIM and remove any unwanted growth by end of stretch. The plants do have some nice fat leaves, I like that in my plants


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## NanoGadget (Jan 5, 2017)

green217 said:


> Those aren't big enough to label as bushy yet. I don't see any side branching, they aren't quite large enough though so no worries. I personally FIM and remove any unwanted growth by end of stretch. The plants do have some nice fat leaves, I like that in my plants


Yeah she does have some pudgy leaves! Loves me some indica. By bushy I more meant that she is filling out way faster than she is getting tall.. not sure if you can see it in the ugly burple light, but the new growth that is pushing it's way up is filling out faster than those overweight leaves from the node below it are getting out of the way. Lol. With my light cycle and these genetics I definitely expect it to be a bushy lady. The 3rd node is just starting so I know I have a while yet before I have to make a decision, just looking of opinions and suggestions. Thanks for the feedback!


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## Flowki (Jan 6, 2017)

NanoGadget said:


> That is a lot of info! I appreciate it greatly! I was thinking about going for 8 colas, but this plant is so damn bushy and short so far that I don't know what to think. I'm kind of leaning towards UB's 4 top method with a bit of LST to spread it out a bit until it decides to stretch a little. Here she is over the last few days (first pic is from the 3rd, the last few are from last night and today)View attachment 3869188 View attachment 3869189 View attachment 3869190 View attachment 3869191 Her first true leaves peeked out on the 21st or the 22nd of December so I guess I'm a couple days past 2 weeks since the start of veg.


Ah didn't realize you were doing led, do they have the light penetration to make the most of 2 foot+ plants?. I recall reading they don't but maybe mistaken.

Are you using side lighting too?, if above is correct then it sounds like fiming for a more rounded type bush would give the most leaf canopy around the light sources, could rotate the plant 1/4 daily if only 2 side lights.

If only one top light and again if the penetration is an issue then you'd be likely looking at a scrog or lst to get as many tops as you can at the canopy foot print.


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## NanoGadget (Jan 6, 2017)

It's not a cheap ebay LED. I wouldn't say it quite has the penetration of my HID, but it's not far off. I've grown 3+ foot plants with it no problem and good development on the secondary bud sites with this light. I have side lighting options available, but I've never needed it before. I considered scrog, but the screen would have to be attached to the removable top section of the bucket to make it feasible and that also represents even more veg time.. so I've been leaning away from it.


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## Flowki (Jan 6, 2017)

NanoGadget said:


> It's not a cheap ebay LED. I wouldn't say it quite has the penetration of my HID, but it's not far off. I've grown 3+ foot plants with it no problem and good development on the secondary bud sites with this light. I have side lighting options available, but I've never needed it before. I considered scrog, but the screen would have to be attached to the removable top section of the bucket to make it feasible and that also represents even more veg time.. so I've been leaning away from it.


Oh I see, sorry for the confusion. Well, you have my vote on style ^^.

Oh btw if you do go with ub4 don't spread it out. I think you will lose the 4 cola dominance and basically end up with a lst looking plant. You could spread it out a little at flower but the weight of the buds should do that for you anyway. Then, with lady green on your side the struggle will be to keep it together ;p. If the plant refuses to get taller in veg then it's probably the wrong strain for the style?.. or the light is just too good, dunno.


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## NanoGadget (Jan 6, 2017)

Flowki said:


> Oh I see, sorry for the confusion. Well, you have my vote on style ^^.
> 
> Oh btw if you do go with ub4 don't spread it out. I think you will lose the 4 cola dominance and basically end up with a lst looking plant. You could spread it out a little at flower but the weight of the buds should do that for you anyway. Then, with lady green on your side the struggle will be to keep it together ;p. If the plant refuses to get taller in veg then it's probably the wrong strain for the style?.. or the light is just too good, dunno.


It is a bushy strain, but I have noticed that this light really crushes if you have it too close to the canopy. I tend to run it 28 to 30 inches from the top of the plant during veg or it grows these short super dense bushes. I also switch to bloom spectrum about 2/3 of the way through veg to promote a little stretch.

Anyway, my plan is to use the UB 4 top method, grow it out a bit and see if it looks like I should top again. 

So you're saying no LST with this method? Does it cause side branches to start trying to become dominant?


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## Flowki (Jan 6, 2017)

NanoGadget said:


> It is a bushy strain, but I have noticed that this light really crushes if you have it too close to the canopy. I tend to run it 28 to 30 inches from the top of the plant during veg or it grows these short super dense bushes. I also switch to bloom spectrum about 2/3 of the way through veg to promote a little stretch.
> 
> Anyway, my plan is to use the UB 4 top method, grow it out a bit and see if it looks like I should top again.
> 
> So you're saying no LST with this method? Does it cause side branches to start trying to become dominant?


Yeah no lst unless one top really out does the rest but that will be more of an issue from a cutting and uneven nodes rather than even node seed. If one top is way too dominant then bend at the point that is a similar level from the other 3 tops, just a gentle half arch kinda bend from that point up to the tip of the dominant top once daily so it will pop back up, not a hard or sharp bend you don't want to make anything close to a knuckle. It's probably better to wait until the plant is around 10-12+ inch before you do that. If the plant is really small like 5 inches the nodes may be too close together and you will have more chance of other nodes on the same branch becoming dom.

From seeds two of the tops opposing each other may be smaller than the other two tops. That's not so much a problem as they will stay uniformed in heights, it will be the lower node set that will be smaller than the upper node set or versa, maybe by 3-6 inches. When they are to go flower you can gently pull the entire branches of the higher tops directly away from each other (not too much) and they will start to match the same height of the smaller tops while opening the middle of plant up a little in the process. You will need to find your own way to keep those two branches held out. Or you can just leave them be if they are not that different in size, say a few inches. You may also draw the 2 smaller tops toward each other from the lower half of their stems slightly to gain an inch or so in height on the tops as long as it's not creating overlapping on leaves or looking like it's over all too compact.


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## NanoGadget (Jan 6, 2017)

Flowki said:


> Yeah no lst unless one top really out does the rest but that will be more of an issue from a cutting and uneven nodes rather than even node seed. If one top is way too dominant then bend at the point that is a similar level from the other 3 tops, just a gentle half arch kinda bend from that point up to the tip of the dominant top once daily so it will pop back up, not a hard or sharp bend you don't want to make anything close to a knuckle. It's probably better to wait until the plant is around 10-12+ inch before you do that. If the plant is really small like 5 inches the nodes may be too close together and you will have more chance of other nodes on the same branch becoming dom.
> 
> From seeds two of the tops opposing each other may be smaller than the other two tops. That's not so much a problem as they will stay uniformed in heights, it will be the lower node set that will be smaller than the upper node set or versa, maybe by 3-6 inches. When they are to go flower you can gently pull the entire branches of the higher tops directly away from each other (not too much) and they will start to match the same height of the smaller tops while opening the middle of plant up a little in the process. You will need to find your own way to keep those two branches held out. Or you can just leave them be if they are not that different in size, say a few inches. You may also draw the 2 smaller tops toward each other slightly to gain an inch or so height on them so long as it's not creating overlapping on leaves or looking like it's over all too compact.


Thanks a lot! Once again, a lot of good info! I'll be putting most of it to use I'm sure. Check out my grow journal if you want to follow along for the ride. https://www.rollitup.org/t/papaya-single-plant-rdwc-led.931206/


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## NanoGadget (Jan 10, 2017)

So I'm getting to my 5th or 6th node right now, which brings me to my question. I've always counted the first leaves after the cotyledon (like the single, non-compound leaf) as the first node. But I just had someone tell me the they count the set above that, being the first node with compound leaves, as the first node. I'm going to top (uncle bens 4 top method) in the next day or two so I need to get this resolved. Thanks!


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## NanoGadget (Jan 10, 2017)

Anybody? I'll provide a free dose of gratitude and respect for input on this..


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## MonkeyGrinder (Jan 18, 2017)

NanoGadget said:


> I've always counted the first leaves after the cotyledon (like the single, non-compound leaf) as the first node.


That's how you're supposed to do it.
First leaf set = first node. That's where your lower set of branches (colas) will come from.
Oh and just so you know. Sometimes the lower 2 colas stay short and lag behind the top 2 mains. You can remedy that by just LSTing the top ones down. The trick is to catch it right from the start.


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## tampee (Jan 18, 2017)

I'd say LST all the way. But different strokes for different folks people do great with every style best to look around and find the best style for you. Vertical does look pretty nice too.


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