# What would Happen if i Cut off most/All my Plant's Leaves?



## asdewqasdfgh (Nov 7, 2011)

I had a one month old plant that i screwed up in the process of topping. In the spur of the moment i just cut off the rest of the leaves except for 2. just curious, will this allow the plant to focus it's energy on the developing budding sites or will it stress the plant to its death?


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## hckyguy77 (Nov 7, 2011)

or you could hermie it and then all of your time is waisted. if your going to trim your plant i would never go over 1/3 of the plants leaves at a time


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## cannawizard (Nov 7, 2011)

**if your plant could talk, it would tell you "stop touching me" .. put down the scissors & and leave it be, youve topp'd.. which is fine, but removing leafs to focus "energy" towards the bud sites = doesnt make sense ---since the things you are cutting off, are the sites that create this "energy" 

--cheers


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## fdd2blk (Nov 7, 2011)

what "energy"? 

plants get their ENERGY from their LEAVES.


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## Harrekin (Nov 7, 2011)

It's the same as saying would you be able to concentrate on running a marathon if someone cut your legs off?


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## racerboy71 (Nov 7, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> what "energy"?
> 
> plants get their ENERGY from their LEAVES.


 lol, exactly this.. when you think about plants, the leaves are the things that hang out in the light and collect light energy and convert it to foods and sugars via photsynthesis,.... no leaves, no photosynthesis, no energy for plant, pretty much equals a dead plant shortly..


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## racerboy71 (Nov 7, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> It's the same as saying would you be able to concentrate on running a marathon if someone cut your legs off?


 well, could you???


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## Harrekin (Nov 7, 2011)

racerboy71 said:


> well, could you???


I could sure try, but I'd fail miserably and no doubt come last...same analogy for how the leaf-less plant is gonna turn out 

OP,I think you should euthanise that girl and don't let it waste space in your grow area. Another plant (with leaves this time) even started much later will way outproduce ( yield and quality) the current "disadvantaged" one.


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## racerboy71 (Nov 7, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> I could sure try, but I'd fail miserably and no doubt come last...same analogy for how the leaf-less plant is gonna turn out
> 
> OP,I think you should euthanise that girl and don't let it waste space in your grow area. Another plant (with leaves this time) even started much later will way outproduce ( yield and quality) the current "disadvantaged" one.


 i tend to agree.. by the time this plant gets over the shock of being leafless, if it ever does, it's going to take awhile for her to catch up, and i'm sure your yield will suffer horribly from this mishap..
it would probably just be easier and safer to start a new plant again..


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## phxfire (Nov 7, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> It's the same as saying would you be able to concentrate on running a marathon if someone cut your legs off?


Dude it is possible...


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## asdewqasdfgh (Nov 8, 2011)

ok so plants photosynthesis from their leaves! gotcha. thanks for the tip!

ps, the plant is now in the dumpster


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## racerboy71 (Nov 8, 2011)

asdewqasdfgh said:


> ok so plants photosynthesis from their leaves! gotcha. thanks for the tip!
> 
> ps, the plant is now in the dumpster


 yah, next time you're thinking of doing something pretty drastic to your baby, it's not a bad idea to ask a simple question here BEFORE you do it, lol..
not trying to bust your balls or anything, this is how people learn, but sometimes costly mistakes like this can be avoided and you still learn the same lesson by asking first is all..
i'm sure you'll never make this mistake in a grow again though, which like i said, is how we learn, it just sucks to have effed up a whole plant to have to learn this lesson is all..


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## asdewqasdfgh (Nov 8, 2011)

yea i appreciate it. next grow things will be a lot different. im not stressing about ruining the plant, i had a hunch that it was a male and im under the impression that i am still left with 2 healthy ladies


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## racerboy71 (Nov 8, 2011)

asdewqasdfgh said:


> yea i appreciate it. next grow things will be a lot different. im not stressing about ruining the plant, i had a hunch that it was a male and im under the impression that i am still left with 2 healthy ladies


 very cool.. males make great expirements if they are the only plants that you have to work with... they can be fun to play around with and do all kinds of crazy shit to them and not have to worry about killing them or w/e.. you can tie them down, train them, top them all over, supercrop, lst, fim, over water, under water, take off every other leaf, w/e you can think of lol..
they're a great tool to use to learn a plant and its limits without worrying about what happens to them...

and they're are pretty much two trains of thought of removing leaves.. some people like to remove all of the bottom leaves and branches, called lolipopping, and others such as myself, don't like to remove any leaves aside from anything that maybe pretty much dead..


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## CR500ROOST (Nov 8, 2011)

This should be in the newbie section not advanced lol


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## Afka (Nov 8, 2011)

You're even dumber for having thrown it out. It was a plant in veg, all you had to do was leave it there and do nothing.


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## Total Head (Nov 8, 2011)

i don't know if i would have reccomended throwing the plant away. sure it's not going to do so hot but it would have been a good learning experience to watch the progression of a plant that has no leaves as compared to the healthier plants. i learned my lesson about needing healthy fan leaves as a cheapskate noob. i under-ferted, the leaves died, the plant basically shit the bed. it's more of a lesson when you watch it happen imo.


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## zo0t (Nov 9, 2011)

*da plant dies! try it!*


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## Stomata (Nov 9, 2011)

Afka said:


> You're even dumber for having thrown it out. It was a plant in veg, all you had to do was leave it there and do nothing.


+1. The leaves would have more than likely came back with little to no effect. Extreme defoliation in flower isn't a good idea, but in veg, it more than likely wouldn't have hurt anything. Sorry, but anyone that says otherwise is full of shit. I know this from experience. I'm not just telling you shit that I've heard other people say.

Long story short, you threw away the plant for no reason.


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## slonez47 (Nov 9, 2011)

asdewqasdfgh said:


> ok so plants photosynthesis from their leaves! gotcha. thanks for the tip!
> 
> ps, the plant is now in the dumpster


You've heard it already, but without viable foilage all you have is a stick.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 9, 2011)

asdewqasdfgh said:


> I had a one month old plant that i screwed up in the process of topping. In the spur of the moment i just cut off the rest of the leaves except for 2. just curious, will this allow the plant to focus it's energy on the developing budding sites or will it stress the plant to its death?


Herein lies the core of this wacked out biz.


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## howsweetitis (Nov 9, 2011)

wont it change the plants metabolism and cause it to become a hermi if you cut off too much too soon... if you wanna do such a thing do it before you flower... there is a youtube video of a guy growing in soil on a balcony and he had good results with it.


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## althor (Nov 9, 2011)

It will recover in veg. the question would be would it be worth adding an addition 2-3 weeks of veg to get it back healthy enough to switch light cycles into flowering? Maybe, maybe not. I probably would have just ditched it as well and started fresh. Just my personal opinion. Its also my personal opinion, if you make another attempt, dont bother topping it or anything. Just let it grow, see how it develops, and learn from the experience. Each batch experiment a little more and see how it effects the plant. In 3-4 batches you will have gained quite abit of experience and knowledge.


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## Afka (Nov 10, 2011)

althor said:


> would it be worth adding an addition 2-3 weeks of veg Maybe, maybe not. I probably would have just ditched it as well and started fresh..


Exhibit a) adding 2-3 weeks of veg to an already alive plant with decent root system
Exhibit b) starting over. spending longer than 2-3 weeks growing another plant from seed and going through that abysmal eternal slow growth phase until the 3rd node.


Yep, as much of a genius as the OP here


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## StlSoldier531 (Nov 10, 2011)

asdewqasdfgh said:


> I had a one month old plant that i screwed up in the process of topping. In the spur of the moment i just cut off the rest of the leaves except for 2. just curious, will this allow the plant to focus it's energy on the developing budding sites or will it stress the plant to its death?


What would happen if your lips were glued shut and all of your veins (except two) were closed up?? There is your answer .. lmaooo


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## HigherGround (Nov 28, 2011)

Rule of thumb 50% of foliage at a time evenly to keep growth good. I'm sure you could do more but, end up with much work ahead.


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## Afka (Nov 28, 2011)

HigherGround said:


> Rule of thumb 50% of foliage at a time evenly to keep growth good. I'm sure you could do more but, end up with much work ahead.


 ^Ignore this moron


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## corners (Nov 28, 2011)

The plant will be spending what little energy it now has repairing itself. Its counterproductive people. JUST TUCK THE LEAVES UNDER SITES YOU want to have more light


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## HigherGround (Nov 28, 2011)

What? Moron? Somebody back me up. Common knowledge when pruning never to remove more than 50%. Sure cutting leaves off stresses your plant. Also will give the plant more new growth, branches, bud sites, and bush it out. Pruning 101. It's not the way I like to do it but, doesn't mean it doesn't work that way. Depending on what your trying to achieve you may need to veg. longer. That's expected! I'm just saying if you want to keep your plant moving forward don't cut more than 50% of the leaves.


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## CR500ROOST (Nov 28, 2011)

What would happen if you cut your head legs and arms off?well thats what just happened to your plant.


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## CR500ROOST (Nov 28, 2011)

HigherGround said:


> What? Moron? Somebody back me up. Common knowledge when pruning never to remove more than 50%. Sure cutting leaves off stresses your plant. Also will give the plant more new growth, branches, bud sites, and bush it out. Pruning 101. It's not the way I like to do it but, doesn't mean it doesn't work that way. Depending on what your trying to achieve you may need to veg. longer. That's expected! I'm just saying if you want to keep your plant moving forward don't cut more than 50% of the leaves.


I wouldn't cut any leaves off that's my rule of thumb


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## SirLancelot (Nov 28, 2011)

HigherGround said:


> Rule of thumb 50% of foliage at a time evenly to keep growth good. I'm sure you could do more but, end up with much work ahead.


If Im not mistaken the leaves are your solar panels (which creates energy) for your factory (buds). So wouldn't removing solar panels (leafs) give you less energy? Im no botanist but also isn't it the leaves that are needed for photosynthesis not the buds. I've had buds under fan leaves that still grew out to be big nugs. I guess if it really bothers you tuck them in. 

I think the rule of thumb your refeering too is if 50% of your leaf is damaged or dead you cut it away. but why on earth would you chop healthy leaves.


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## HigherGround (Nov 28, 2011)

Look. Im on the same page as you guys. I don't like pruning indoor plants but, you can do it. And they will continue to grow new leaves. They will split into more leaves than you cut off. Eventually you will end up with more leaves. If you cut off more than 50% your plants leaves your going to have trouble building new growth that's all i'm saying. Your plant doesn't die because it lost some foliage.


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## HigherGround (Nov 28, 2011)

And roost. To your question,"what if you cut of your head legs and arms". Really! I definitely wouldn't regenerate them like a marijuana plant regenerates leaves.


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## SirLancelot (Nov 28, 2011)

HigherGround said:


> And roost. To your question,"what if you cut of your head legs and arms". Really! I definitely wouldn't regenerate them like a marijuana plant regenerates leaves.


lol ill give ya that! I hear ya, my bad I thought the argument was that you are suppose too. Not that you can and it won't KILL the plant. but it will def put it in shock. My first grow, before I discovered RIU and all that was into growing I made this mistake to prune my leaves. Man this caused my plants to go into shock and they got all fucked up.

I just wouldn't advise cutting any, ok maybe 1-2% because your bored and need something to do in the grow room haha.


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## brimck325 (Nov 28, 2011)

cut off your arms n legs n see how u feel! hurts the plant too. minor cuts, finger amputated, u will survive...


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## CR500ROOST (Nov 28, 2011)

HigherGround said:


> And roost. To your question,"what if you cut of your head legs and arms". Really! I definitely wouldn't regenerate them like a marijuana plant regenerates leaves.


It was an example.I wouldn't cut any leaves off unless it was infected or I was topping or fimming.I have herd about people pruning so I have done it before and stunned a plant.lesson learned.


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## 420forme (Nov 28, 2011)

If you tuck big fan leaves under the canopy they just end up dyeing anyways, might as well just cut them and save yourself time. I grow scrog and trim most of everything under the canopy, and remove big leaves from above that block alot of light. I also grow afgan/indicas that have HUGE fan leaves. I've also had grows where I left all the leaves on, all it equaled was more trimming at harvest, and more underdeveloped bud toward the screen.


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## HigherGround (Nov 28, 2011)

When your topping you don't think that stresses the plant. C'mon! Talk about cutting your head off! Lol! Those all stunt growth for a bit. It's ok to do that tho. Because it increases your yield without effecting quality. Right? When pruning around it it's the same idea. Causing it to split to create more bud sites. Healthy plants will overcome these stresses with ease. What do you mean an example? How can a human be a representation of a plant?


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## SirLancelot (Nov 29, 2011)

im confused how providing more light to bud sites gives you bigger buds. im pretty sure it's the green leaves that go through photosynthesis not the buds.


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## Afka (Nov 29, 2011)

Hey HigherGround, why do we veg our plants?


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## Harrekin (Nov 29, 2011)

HigherGround said:


> When your topping you don't think that stresses the plant. C'mon! Talk about cutting your head off! Lol! Those all stunt growth for a bit. It's ok to do that tho. Because it increases your yield without effecting quality. Right? When pruning around it it's the same idea. Causing it to split to create more bud sites. Healthy plants will overcome these stresses with ease. What do you mean an example? How can a human be a representation of a plant?


 I know all logic says Im wrong, but topping actually causes very very little stress to the plant. The redirection of hormones is almost instant and less than a day later you'll see a clear growth response to the topping. 

Pruning leaves removes energy that the already grown parts of the plants require, this is what causes stress.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 29, 2011)

Afka said:


> Hey HigherGround, why do we veg our plants?


So we can get stupid and cut them all off.


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## CR500ROOST (Nov 29, 2011)

HigherGround said:


> When your topping you don't think that stresses the plant. C'mon! Talk about cutting your head off! Lol! Those all stunt growth for a bit. It's ok to do that tho. Because it increases your yield without effecting quality. Right? When pruning around it it's the same idea. Causing it to split to create more bud sites. Healthy plants will overcome these stresses with ease. What do you mean an example? How can a human be a representation of a plant?


I wouldn't do it to myself so why would I do it to my plant.But that doesn't really matter cause your the master grower that know everything so there really is no use in arguing with a troll.


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## Unclejoe51 (Dec 2, 2011)

I always cut almost all the leaves off my plants before I put them into flower. Get way bigger yields than most of my friends who just change the light cycle & don't trim. I'm not saying its the only way to go but my results speak for themselves.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 2, 2011)

Just curious did you do a side by side comparison with the same strain? like trim one before the switch and not the other I only ask because I feel like it would be hard to judge one harvest from another, there are so many factors that happen within one grow to another their wouldn't be enough proof that trimming before switching lights resulted in different buds. e.i. (nutes, soil, light distance, strain, temp, etc...)


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 3, 2011)

Unclejoe51 said:


> I always cut almost all the leaves off my plants before I put them into flower. Get way bigger yields than most of my friends who just change the light cycle & don't trim.


Since leaves drive production, that is botanically impossible.

Fess up, you remove leaves cause they look like shit due to poor culture (use of bloom foods) are dropping prematurely. 

UB


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## SirLancelot (Dec 3, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> Since leaves drive production, that is botanically impossible.
> 
> Fess up, you remove leaves cause they look like shit due to poor culture (use of bloom foods) are dropping prematurely.
> 
> UB


I was thinking this lol...


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## heresSMOKEY (Aug 25, 2012)

ok so lets say hypothetically that all the leaves get cut off? excluding the the newly growing bud sites/ tops what would happen and how long will they take to grow


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## Propagate (Aug 26, 2012)

Everyone needs to stop with this human to plant comparisons. We are not the same. If you cut our arms off, under no circumstances (at least not yet), will we grow them back. These forms are so littered with absolutes about the "right way" to grow. Everyone should experiment and learn for themselves. There are tons of plants out there other than our beloved Marijuana. Uncle Ben, i think as such a facet to RIU, you should hesitate to use words such as botanically impossible. There are plenty of plants that perform better, many rose varieties, climbers and shrubs with hard pruning. The amazing world of botany has very few absolutes, some plants need to live underwater, and some need very little water.


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 26, 2012)

Propagate said:


> There are plenty of plants that perform better, many rose varieties, climbers and shrubs with hard pruning.


And what is the result of hard pruning which is done DURING DORMANCY?

Recommend a course in Botany 101.


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## Propagate (Aug 26, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> And what is the result of hard pruning which is done DURING DORMANCY?


I think we are just discussing pruning in general not the ideal time to prune.



Thank you for your recommendation on the classes, I did enjoy Botany 101 as well as 102 103 104.. Since plants are so much like us, I decided re veg my friend earlier. I also took a cutting of his hair and rooted him, now I have 2 friends, working on a more hardy variety of them as well  I contacted Monsanto to see if they could help with a round up proof human.


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## cues (Aug 26, 2012)

Mahonia charity and Forsythia suspensa are both cut back during their growing seasons for the same aims as us. Maximum flowers.


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## Laney (Aug 26, 2012)

I have a lot of forsythia. They flower once in early spring and that's it. They are cut back hard later in the year because they are an extremely invasice species, not to maximize flowering. I don't think this is an accurate example.


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## mikeandnaomi (Aug 26, 2012)

Dude - I cut almost every leaf off a plant - it was one I was going to pull because I thought perhaps it was genetically screwed up. 
Upon further examination I had bad drainage. I thought - WHAT YOU HELL - so I do all my experiments on this plant - this season. Guess what?
The damn plant is naked of leaves from about the 1/2 way point down the plant and the top is very robust. I suppose it depends on the strain.

I'd always remove dead leafs and foliage in general that is no longer helping the plant. I know many people want to keep every leaf on the plant - but not some.
Removing some of the leafs (not healthy ones) more light exposure for parts of the plant otherwise covered by the dead debris etc.

If you can - do it to one of your plants and see what happens. Its all about learning. Turn a negative into a positive.


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## cues (Aug 27, 2012)

Laney said:


> I have a lot of forsythia. They flower once in early spring and that's it. They are cut back hard later in the year because they are an extremely invasice species, not to maximize flowering. I don't think this is an accurate example.


Um, no.
Forsythia is a plant that is quite unususual in that it starts flowering before producing leaves in early spring. Wisteria is the same.
Immediately after flowering, it should be pruned back hard to promote new vigorous growth as next years flowers are produced on the coming summers growth, in common with many spring-flowering shrubs (Honeysuckle, Hydrangea, Lilac, Philadelphus) . Pruning later in summer would be removing forming buds.


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## Harrekin (Aug 27, 2012)

mikeandnaomi said:


> Dude - I cut almost every leaf off a plant - it was one I was going to pull because I thought perhaps it was genetically screwed up.
> Upon further examination I had bad drainage. I thought - WHAT YOU HELL - so I do all my experiments on this plant - this season. Guess what?
> The damn plant is naked of leaves from about the 1/2 way point down the plant and the top is very robust. I suppose it depends on the strain.
> 
> ...


You know the leaves get narly because the plant is using stored resources due a a deficiency in feeding/watering,etc. 

Cutting leaves off a cannabis plant is dumb, do a Buffalo Bill job and just tuck those bitches if needs be.


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 27, 2012)

The title of this thread is one of the most ignorant I've seen.

The majority in the cannabis community can easily recite AN, Fox, Canna, Humboldt snake oil product names but damned if they know shit about what makes a plant tick. 

May I remind those that wish to obfuscate the discussion that cannabis is an annual, NOT a perennial. Expect a loss in flower production to be directly related to a loss in root and foliage mass.

UB


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## Foothills (Aug 27, 2012)

Come on now,be honest with us.Were you banging away on the ole bong when you came up with this one ? LOL


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## cues (Aug 27, 2012)

I would argue the whole annual/perennial thing. I think in the case of some plants (cannabis included) it's a bit of a misnomer, similar to the tree/shrub thing (botanically no difference).
Surely a plant that is annual in one climate zone may become perennial in another and vice-versa.
Under lighting, people have kept mothers for years.
Others harvest their plants, leaving some on, over-winter in a frost-free place and re-veg in spring. Surely perennial behaviour?


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 27, 2012)

No "misnomer". Cannabis is an annual, period. It's a foliage plant not a woody tree or shrub. It doesn't store carbos for the spring push in its roots, drop its leaves and then go dormant thru a winter cycle. 

If you lose leaves it's most likely because you can't grow well and/or are just plain stupid doing the lollipop thing and such. If you cut branches and as a master gardener know what you're doing, then you know that cannabis will replace foliage lost with more foliage such as what happens when you top.


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## scroglodyte (Aug 27, 2012)

your plant will waste energy attempting to replace all those leaves


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## Propagate (Aug 27, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> No "misnomer". Cannabis is an annual, period. It's a foliage plant not a woody tree or shrub. It doesn't store carbos for the spring push in its roots, drop its leaves and then go dormant thru a winter cycle.
> 
> If you lose leaves it's most likely because you can't grow well and/or are just plain stupid doing the lollipop thing and such. If you cut branches and as a master gardener know what you're doing, then you know that cannabis will replace foliage lost with more foliage such as what happens when you top.


Would you agree the difference in a perennial and annual is location?


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## cues (Aug 28, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> No "misnomer". Cannabis is an annual, period. It's a foliage plant not a woody tree or shrub. It doesn't store carbos for the spring push in its roots, drop its leaves and then go dormant thru a winter cycle.
> 
> If you lose leaves it's most likely because you can't grow well and/or are just plain stupid doing the lollipop thing and such. If you cut branches and as a master gardener know what you're doing, then you know that cannabis will replace foliage lost with more foliage such as what happens when you top.


Not a woody tree or shrub? I've grown plants outdoors where the stems were like baseball bats!
It's certainly not a foliage plant (a plant grown for it's decorative leaves). Is a herbaceous plant a foliage plant? Another blurred line.

My point is that botanists try to classify things and 'put them in boxes' and it simply doesn't work that way any more as it never did with trees and shrubs. They could never find a botanical difference so just 'decided' which were which.

It started with world travel and plants being moved between continents and temperate zones. Now, with artificial lighting, we can induce plants to act as we wish. My Cayenne peppers are now in a state of almost perpetual flower and fruit.

Recent advances in back-tracing DNA have resulted in many plants being re-classified and found to belong to completely different species as previously thought.

PS.

I wouldn't dare call myself a master gardener until I regularly hit the GPW. I'm not there yet.


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## hoagtech (Aug 28, 2012)

Ill tell you what'll happen. Youll stir the pot around here. my 2c: clearing under canopy helps ventilate your crops and is widely precticed in both the grape and tomatoe industry. Also if your in an indoor setting and want to maximise your light. it works great to rip off some light blockers. Even more so in veg or when you over fertilized, ripping branches or topping creates a response and revitilised metabolism. Those are my 2 cents and i practice them because they work for me. but seriously your startin some shit if you've seen this argument elswhere. And I dont like that.. 

And just for the hell of it I'l' argue with myself. Ripping branches off limits your ability to photosynthesize. Any and all plant matter creates glucol which is the the most important aspect in carbon production. Less leaves = less new growth. I agree with my first statement, but I do understand where the other side is coming from. I do think its ironic that people say not to pick leaves or branches and THEN CONDONE TOPPING? the full monty branch picking method that creates an amazing response.. Im getting used to the hypocrisy.


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## p3ps1c0la (Aug 28, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> well, could you???


"
[h=1]*Oscar Pistorius, Double-Amputee Blade Runner, Makes History at Olympics"*[/h]


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## Uncle Ben (Aug 29, 2012)

cues said:


> Not a woody tree or shrub? I've grown plants outdoors where the stems were like baseball bats!


The fact that it will increase its lignin content, become a little woody, does NOT make it a perennial. How thick was the bark on that "tree" lol?



> It's certainly not a foliage plant (a plant grown for it's decorative leaves). Is a herbaceous plant a foliage plant? Another blurred line.


It's not blurred to me. It's foliage plant that flowers. The majority of foliage plants flower.



> My point is that botanists try to classify things and 'put them in boxes' and it simply doesn't work that way any more as it never did with trees and shrubs. They could never find a botanical difference so just 'decided' which were which.


Not true. I think the bee in your bonnet is you have a problem with authority. 

"All "annual" plants are "herbaceous," but not all herbaceous plants are annuals. An "annual" is a plant that dies altogether at the end of the growing season, both above the ground and below it. "Perennials," by contrast, survive the winter, even if their above-ground growth dies back."

Perennials are woody, cannabis is not per se.




> It started with world travel and plants being moved between continents and temperate zones. Now, with artificial lighting, we can induce plants to act as we wish. My Cayenne peppers are now in a state of almost perpetual flower and fruit.


Sorry, peppers are annuals. Just because you can manipulate and baby their cycle doesn't make them a true perennial. You've cheated mother nature is what you've done.



> I wouldn't dare call myself a master gardener until I regularly hit the GPW. I'm not there yet.


I am a Master Gardener, certified by the State of Texas FWIW. Really doesn't mean squat. I'm more of a Master Gardener based on 40+ years of growing every kind of plant material you can think of, which includes a large commercial ag op as we speak.

Uncle Ben


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## cues (Aug 30, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> The fact that it will increase its lignin content, become a little woody, does NOT make it a perennial. How thick was the bark on that "tree" lol?
> 
> So, now we are talking about 'woody plants' based on Lignin content? While it is probably only about a quarter of most 'trees', it's still a constituant of Cannabis plants and in far higher concentrations than many 'annual' plants.
> 
> ...


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## slayer6669 (Aug 30, 2012)

the leaves are like solar panels for your plant.


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## HeartlandHank (Aug 30, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> I am a Master Gardener, certified by the State of Texas FWIW. Really doesn't mean squat.
> Uncle Ben


<<<Ring, ring, ring>>> 
MG: TCMG
caller: blah blah blah blah, sticky stuff on my trees
MG: Wooly Aphids, just deal with it. <Hang up>

...repeat...

Picked the wrong time to put volunteer hours in at the phone desk.


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## Omnispo (Oct 11, 2012)

I am finding healthy tomato plants releaf vigorously after defoliation, after a recovery period. If you want to stunt your lady's growth, defoliation is an option...for ex if they need to stay under the light.

i wonder if there is an appreciable amount of photosynthesis proceeding in the green part of the buds, aka the bracts/calyxes? Any experts know the answer to that?


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## Omnispo (Oct 13, 2012)

I repeat. Is there photosynthesis performed by components of the buds? Maybe a horticulturalist can answer my query.

Does photosynthesis happen in swollen green calyxes or bracts?


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 14, 2012)

Omnispo said:


> I repeat. Is there photosynthesis performed by components of the buds? Maybe a horticulturalist can answer my query.
> 
> Does photosynthesis happen in swollen green calyxes or bracts?


Yes. If it has chlorophyll, it will conduct photosynthesis. It's like a tier regarding production of simple/complex carbos with the large fan leaves being the most productive, bud fan leaves next, and the calyxes being least.


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## Omnispo (Oct 14, 2012)

Interesting. Always good to hear from an experienced expert. 

Is there a direct connection between photosynthesis and terpene/CB biosysnthesis? 

Do calyxes photosynthesize carbs and ATP for the biosynthesis of cannabinoids (CB) in the trichromes?

After all, we are mostly seeking cannabinoids, trichromes, and buds. The rest is trim.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 16, 2012)

Omnispo said:


> Interesting. Always good to hear from an experienced expert.
> 
> Is there a direct connection between photosynthesis and terpene/CB biosysnthesis?
> 
> ...


That "trim" is what drives "cannabinoids, trichromes, and buds." You're focusing on the end product and not on how to get there which I explained previously. Not singling you out as comments like yours are common. Read R.C. Clarke's 'Marijuana Botany'.

Don't drive using your rear view mirror.

UB


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## Omnispo (Oct 17, 2012)

I found this link for RC Clarkes Mari. botany book... Reading now

http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/botany_guide.php


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## Omnispo (Oct 20, 2012)

Uncle Zen, i mean Uncle Benjammin,  ... You are damn right about me focusing on the end product. My firstime stupidity retarded my ladies growth. Ah well, experimentation is only worthless if you don't learn your lessons. 

My first harem of 5 cherokee heirloom tomato ladies are looking fine now in late flower, but my complete and utterly Cannaba-tarded defoliation massively prolonged the time required for complete flowering, as the flowers were forced to releaf before continuing flowering. They are in their twelvth!!! week of flower with three weeks more required. That is a warning to all noobs to leave the leaves alone, unless you have good reason for taking one or two off the plant's body. The varieties of tomatoes i am nurturing currently, are medicine man, two solid freebies - auto dinafem white widow, and one lucky yet-unhermed OG Skywalker Kush bag seed- by far the best looking of the bunch with purpling stems even without low night temperatures. I lucked out with sexing the regular strains, using much banana ethyelene in the seedling stage with cool temps to produce 4 of 4 females. Definitely not a large enough sample size to draw conclusions about banana effectiveness, but intriguing nonetheless! Is sex determined genetically, epigenetically, and/or environmentally, at different points in the plants' lifecycle?

There are many heirloom tomato forums on the intertubes but RiU keeps me coming back... And no its not the clueless noobs as myself, its the old head experts with decades of experience, quite humbling if one has an open mind. Sure Wish i had joined in 2008 when i first lurked!

Thanks to the following inspirational grow airs:

From Uncle Zen I learned to continue N through flower, to forget lollipopping or removing bud sites, listen to my elders and take my verbal medicine, and to skip defoliation except for rare cases. You cannot reattach a leaf, once plucked, it fades to black in the compost pile. Entropy is a bitch to skip so i focus on syntropy, negentropy, and extropy. Back to reading Botnical txtbooks for me!!

From subcool I learned about the intricacies of SuberSoil, an all organic mix with massive potential. Enjoy your new home in Cali!

From Nugbuckets I learned mainlining isn't a shortcut to Overdosing. Gotta love that symmetric Hub! Powers of two up to 16/32/64?

From Budologist I learned about scientific liquid and gas chromotographic CB measurement techniques. i wonder if they can measure other chems like limonene, various terpenes, and other aromatic molecules responsible for tastes? Soon I am going to call your lab guys and ask about the meaning of the THc percentages in terms of dry weight of the herbal meds.

I hope the future brings me into real life friendships with the creme de la of creme of RIU. 

what is the difference between foxtailing, crowning, and dreading? Are any of these bad at the end of flower, as last bursts of pistils spring forth? I cannot see the harm in my queens crowning themselves.

also, can a dehumidifier hurt ladies in late flower? rH is kept around 35-42...

One last Closing thought and i mustoprocrastinating: Someone more expert than I, should compile an evolving RIU meta-synopsis of growing info, or at least a viral pdf of the prettiest colas/trees/setups.


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## Omnispo (Oct 20, 2012)

It seems most inexperienced noobs, like myself, 
Start their super tomato plants from subpar random runtling genetics, grown in spatially cramped and Light starved conditions, yet remain heat stressed and under-cooled,
over-fed with wallet-voiding hundredollar snake oils marketed in flashy bottles...
poisoned with polluted air and
burnt with nutrient salts, 
Under Nitrogenated yet their Growth media hyperPKed causing Chlorotic/necrotic Leaf tips- worsened by tap water's contaminates as heavy metals, lead, arsenic, concentrated chloramines and fluoride, 
pest-infected through grower's hands/feet vectors, 
spider mites find these heavenly havens...
Yet the noob Omnicidally annihilates beneficial soil microbials,
Plants undervented with radioactive urban air,
root bound and under-potted,
CO2 starved, 
Growth tips pruned, hyper-stressed and growth stunted,
Following Bought and paid for BS advice, Lollypopped and over-defoliated,
Basically treated as if it was not a living entity, but a dead green computer machine subservient to the demands of human hedonism.
These poor yet resilient organisms, now Overcome with Diseases- gardener induced,
These ladies are over-thought, yet under researched,
With meristems topped too late and trained improperly,
Lacking discretionary measures like odor control and running mouth syndrome, sinking ships 
prematurely harvest impatiently without hesitation, just as the ladies were beginning to recover from the grower's abuses...
Controlled by greed,
Her Flowers are Disrespected,
speed-dried , dehydrated, and expertly anti-cured to seal in her buds the chlorophyllic Taste of hay, barely fit for a silage trough,
these barely living plant ladies are over-expectorated, hyper-complicated, under-planned, and mostly mis-understood. 
Finally, all of these failings Result in what??
Most likely -- >toxic grass clippings!
At best Bottom barrel beasters if lady luck smiled upon that fool,
yet according to the noob "grower," these are the best homegrown purple cherokee heirloom tomatoes he has ever seen and smoked! Hurry up and spend a full day's wahes on an adeptly eyeballed eighth, while suckers swoon over anything besides mexican schwag. 

Sux to be inexperienced... 
Fortunately for my future harem's ladies, I am working hard on the planning problems by gaining greater understanding, thanks to RIU! 
Are Eye You? Areyeau? I like phonetics. Bed time haha!

Random Question for rep+- Does vaping freshly picked tomato flowers work better than smoking quickdried buds?

p.s.s this post made me realize why the experts on here get a little cranky at times! So much stupid, so little time for cannaba-Cupid to cure it!!


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## Omnispo (Oct 20, 2012)

In response to the thread question, what would happen if i cut off all my leaves?

i did just that after reading keeftreez defoliation thread on ICMAG, on three ladies I experimented with total defoliation- dispersive and concentrated, a few weeks into flower and again at 4 weeks into flower. On two ladies I even removed even the bud leaves! I left only the buds remaining on those two ladies. The squat pheno of a dinafem white widow auto didn't seem to mind, almost loved it, producing monster fruits after a recovery period and releafing. A medicine man showed a similar recovery phase, followed by bud releafing, then started to pack on the bud bulk. The other taller pheno of dinafem auto w.w. showed severe stress from the first defoliation but recovered after I spared it the second defoliation. 

My little experiment proved to myself the dangers of defoliation in radical form, even on perfectly healthy ladies. there are many negative effects from defoliation, such as stunted growth, MUCH longer flower times, plant stress, leafy buds, and possibly delayed trichrome development. I will never radically defoliate again, besides in rare cases.

A few neutral effects can be seen from even total defoliation..
It halts vertical growth, helpful as I am vertically limited in space. Thus bonzai aficianados use it.
It also allows free air movement, isolating buds similar to a scrog, and allows lower buds more light exposure.
It lets you easily inspect your ladies for pests, and it removes points of attack for pests like the spider borg.

Less is more, truly. I also regret lollipopping and bottom pruning before i radically defoliated. 
From now on I leave it on unless the plant begs me to remove it. Eagle Scout's honor!!


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 21, 2012)

Like many you've had to learn the hard way. Common (botanical) sense is really not that hard people. 

The title of this thread pretty much speaks for itself when it comes to cannabis growers. I mean hell's bells, if you don't understand the function of a leaf, what in the hell are you doing trying to grow anything?

UB


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## dopeyG (Oct 21, 2012)

lol, your an idiot


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## Omnispo (Oct 21, 2012)

I know this


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## Dwezelitsame (Oct 23, 2012)

i have experimented wit this and fan leaves can comfortably be removed after stretch is over -first 1/3 of flower
sum plants discard after 2/3 of fllower 

never remove leaves sticking from buds 
or small fans from and below buds that frost over 

fans on stem are not needed for buddage just for growth and supply the regon they are growing from -a fan on a stem suppys energy for d=stem and so on


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