# What Do You Believe?



## TrippyReefer (Jul 24, 2010)

Does it seem like the more intelligent an individual is, the more inclined they are to turn to atheism? Do people use science and their own logic as proof that God does not exist? Does it seem like people will base their beliefs on other people's words? Do we try to find truth that will conveniently fit our wish of the universe?
I just want to know the range of thoughts out there, and how distant our beliefs are. I dont like to see anyone flaming or regurgitating religious facts. I just want to know. What do you believe and hold dear to the deepest part of your cerebral cortex?


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## blazin256 (Jul 24, 2010)

i think, to put all your faith in what a book says, or tells you to, is wrong. all books should be mere tools to reach your own conclusion. but i also think that there is SOMETHING out there that is beyond all knowledge.
the universe is vast, perhaps beyond infinity, and could very well have different forms of life. but the fact still remains; either we are the most intelligent in this universe, or we are simply alone. OR the other life forms dont have an intelligence like ours.
shit im losing my train of thought. im too drunk to for critical thought.


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 25, 2010)

blazin256 said:


> i think, to put all your faith in what a book says, or tells you to, is wrong. all books should be mere tools to reach your own conclusion. but i also think that there is SOMETHING out there that is beyond all knowledge.
> the universe is vast, perhaps beyond infinity, and could very well have different forms of life. but the fact still remains; either we are the most intelligent in this universe, or we are simply alone. OR the other life forms dont have an intelligence like ours.
> shit im losing my train of thought. im too drunk to for critical thought.


Im totally with you on that man. Just dont drink too much man, you're killing your brain cells quick!


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## blazin256 (Jul 25, 2010)

its cool, they wont be around forever. better by my hands then someone (or something) else!


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## Lalaporo (Jul 25, 2010)

Have you ever her of The Satanic Bible, By Anton Lavey? Its a great book. Unlike most people think, you do not worship satin when going with Lavey's theory. It is a great book on how to live your life at its fullest. At the end it has some cool info on ceremonial magic. I will see if i can post a copy of it.


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 25, 2010)

Lalaporo said:


> Have you ever her of The Satanic Bible, By Anton Lavey? Its a great book. Unlike most people think, you do not worship satin when going with Lavey's theory. It is a great book on how to live your life at its fullest. At the end it has some cool info on ceremonial magic. I will see if i can post a copy of it.


Lol, i guess people can draw power from Satan, just as they might through God. But if you acknowledge evil and choose that path, then something isnt right with you, no offense..


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## IAm5toned (Jul 25, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> Does it seem like the more intelligent an individual is, the more inclined they are to turn to atheism? Do people use science and their own logic as proof that God does not exist? Does it seem like people will base their beliefs on other people's words? Do we try to find truth that will conveniently fit our wish of the universe?
> I just want to know the range of thoughts out there, and how distant our beliefs are. I dont like to see anyone flaming or regurgitating religious facts. I just want to know. What do you believe and hold dear to the deepest part of your cerebral cortex?


i believe the more intelligent an individual is, the less inclined that individual is to believe bullshit shoved down there throat with no evidence of its validity. that applies to any subject, including religion.


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## upthearsenal (Jul 25, 2010)

there is no icon in the satanic religion being worshiped or power being drawn from, especially no one named satan, it's a naturalistic point of view which is great, but it has it's faults. personally i don't enjoy vengeance, which is a teaching of satanism. there is no god, therefore there is no universal moral code, so if you enjoy the works of Lavey by no means are you acknowledging evil. and there is nothing out there that specifically disproves god, it only takes common sense to realize that the christian belief in god and jeezuz is a fallacy. for me it's either dinosaurs or god, and i choose dinosaurs

Science will always prevail, believe you me


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 25, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i believe the more intelligent an individual is, the less inclined that individual is to believe bullshit shoved down there throat with no evidence of its validity. that applies to any subject, including religion.


Very true, but sometimes people have a feeling stronger than any doubt they ever felt and wont be swayed by secular opinion. Maybe its because ive been around it all my life but after certain situations, i feel like i dont need anyone to tell me what to believe, i already have faith. Maybe one day ill help some friends in need, but im not gonna try shoving God down their throat but let them know that theres more to life than getting fucked up and killing one's self slowly. Love is the way to happiness, and people can see this no matter how intelligent they are or where their beliefs lie.


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## BudMcLovin (Jul 25, 2010)

Ive always had a belief in a higher power. Ive had too many mystical experiences than to come to any other conclusion. God does exist. Today my relationship with God may not be as strong as it once was my faith has not wavered. Im an educated man both academically and from the experiences of a roller coaster life. And I must say one needs only look at evolution itself to see the hand of God. To many similarities to be coincidence I see it more along the lines of an artist using the same brush techniques in different paintings, refining and improving his techniques along the way. They say the simplest solution is often the correct one. Well say youre walking through the woods and you stumble upon an old rusted out car. Now whats the simplest explanation as to how it got there: Did it just grow there or did someone create it and put it there? It may be an over simplification but Im a simple guy.


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 26, 2010)

BudMcLovin said:


> Ive always had a belief in a higher power. Ive had too many mystical experiences than to come to any other conclusion. God does exist. Today my relationship with God may not be as strong as it once was my faith has not wavered. Im an educated man both academically and from the experiences of a roller coaster life. And I must say one needs only look at evolution itself to see the hand of God. To many similarities to be coincidence I see it more along the lines of an artist using the same brush techniques in different paintings, refining and improving his techniques along the way. They say the simplest solution is often the correct one. Well say youre walking through the woods and you stumble upon an old rusted out car. Now whats the simplest explanation as to how it got there: Did it just grow there or did someone create it and put it there? It may be an over simplification but Im a simple guy.


Glad theres people out there on a similar wavelength as me. I dont like it when people think Evolution disproves God. God was just improving on a design that led to us


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 26, 2010)

upthearsenal said:


> there is no icon in the satanic religion being worshiped or power being drawn from, especially no one named satan, it's a naturalistic point of view which is great, but it has it's faults. personally i don't enjoy vengeance, which is a teaching of satanism. there is no god, therefore there is no universal moral code, so if you enjoy the works of Lavey by no means are you acknowledging evil. and there is nothing out there that specifically disproves god, it only takes common sense to realize that the christian belief in god and jeezuz is a fallacy. for me it's either dinosaurs or god, and i choose dinosaurs
> 
> Science will always prevail, believe you me


Science discovers the laws of the universe, not reasons to disprove the existence of God.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 26, 2010)

OP you will want to read "Prometheus Rising" by Robert Anton Wilson. It's less about God and more about common sense and the pattern of human intellectual and technological evolution. Judging by this thread, it should interest you greatly.

I refuse to talk about religion though. I have spent a few years studying them and even trying to become religious. I've been to school for religion as well as the psychology of religion and spirituality and if you believe and I don't (which i do not) then our conversation will hit the same walls and since im typing with a hand that im awaiting surgery on, i will refrain.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 26, 2010)

BudMcLovin said:


> I&#8217;ve always had a belief in a higher power. I&#8217;ve had too many mystical experiences than to come to any other conclusion. God does exist. Today my relationship with God may not be as strong as it once was my faith has not wavered. I&#8217;m an educated man both academically and from the experiences of a roller coaster life. And I must say one needs only look at evolution itself to see the hand of God. To many similarities to be coincidence I see it more along the lines of an artist using the same brush techniques in different paintings, refining and improving his techniques along the way. They say the simplest solution is often the correct one. Well say you&#8217;re walking through the woods and you stumble upon an old rusted out car. Now what&#8217;s the simplest explanation as to how it got there: Did it just grow there or did someone create it and put it there? It may be an over simplification but I&#8217;m a simple guy.


God is not a conclusion. It is a lack of your ability to understand what is known or conceive what is not. You don't know how the car got there so it was God? No, it was a drunk redneck. You actually cited Occam's Razor in your post RIGHT before you said that. The easiest conclusion is NEVER God. God is the hardest conclusion or there would not be such a divide on the subject.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 26, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> Lol, i guess people can draw power from Satan, just as they might through God. But if you acknowledge evil and choose that path, then something isnt right with you, no offense..


Something is not right with him because he enjoyed a book someone told you is bad? Have you read it? I have not but I have read the bible in multiple forms and it was as judgmental and ignorant. The words for "good" and "evil" did not even exist before monotheism. It is the duality of an extremist mindset manifest in language.


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## oOBe RyeOo (Jul 26, 2010)

Man, I feel like I don't believe but when I think about there being no God I feel guilty; I was raised to be a good Christian. I like to think there is something out there. 

It's sooo depressing though to think there is no after life and when you die... you die... lights out, no more happy days/dreams/feelings. Depressing!

That's why I smoke weed!


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 27, 2010)

Yeah guilt is something they drill you with in religion. Guilt is why you pay your tithes. "God loves you and you turn your [email protected]" Kids do that too but they grow out of it. I was raised to be a good person and religion is a bit judgmental and the whole extrinsic reward system of life after death, heaven vs hell and 100 virgins or whatever reason for doing something doesn't make you a good person. It makes soldiers with a greedy cause.

Why is it depressing to die? You live and then you are passed on back to the earth. You will return to that which gave you life. All energy is only borrowed as is your time here. Depressing is free floating in space with no hope of ever coming into to contact with another living thing, not becoming another one. Your emotions and dreams are not tangible unless you do not bring them to life and even then they are only fleeting and will not last much longer than you if at all. That is depressing. 

You're energy will pass from your body and be re-purposed but it will never be destroyed. You're body, which was given to you, will be given back to that which gave it. What could be more perfect and natural?


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## BudMcLovin (Jul 27, 2010)

Twistedfunk said:


> God is not a conclusion. It is a lack of your ability to understand what is known or conceive what is not. You don't know how the car got there so it was God? No, it was a drunk redneck. You actually cited Occam's Razor in your post RIGHT before you said that. The easiest conclusion is NEVER God. God is the hardest conclusion or there would not be such a divide on the subject.


Beliefs and philosophies are built from previous experiences. For you the conclusion isn&#8217;t God but for me it is. There is not as much divide on whether or not there is a God. From the Washington Post:
&#8220;The study detailed Americans' deep and broad religiosity, finding that 92 percent believe in God or a universal spirit -- including one in five of those who call themselves atheists. More than half of Americans polled pray at least once a day.&#8221; Also &#8220;seventy percent of those affiliated with a religion believe that many religions can lead to eternal salvation.&#8221;


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 27, 2010)

Yeah, I never consider God and have yet to come to a conclusion that requires it. Occam's razor is most commonly used in reference to the "scientific method" which you clearly disregarded while citing it. If you have to guess when there is already a well documented solution/answer then you are not using said razor. Answering with "God" or "Faith" goes against everything that Occam's razor stands for. If you had 20 steps of logic to come to the conclusion of "God" then you could just as easily use the same 20 steps of the same logic and come to the conclusion of "fairies" or "magic" simply because you have nothing but conjecture nor do you have any proof that it is not either fairies or magic. Jumping from what you know and understand and filling in the blanks with God is an intellectual cop out. 

Also, there is a MASSIVE divide on the existence of God/gods and there always will be as long as people do not mentally apply themselves. If they aren't divided on if there is one, they are divided on whose is better. If they are in agreement then they are arguing about translations or whose version of the same story is better. 

Did you actually cite a newspaper for accurate information on religious beliefs? The Washington Post is infamous for misinformation and biased reporting. Who were the people polled? Were they readers of Washington Post? How old were they? What region did they live in? Was the poll taken in a church? Try looking for information that contradicts your own beliefs instead of reinforcing them. That's like going to church to ask if God is real...guess what they are going to say.

I just scrolled up to reread your post and you sound like someone in the front pew parroting the preacher. 

You state that evolution is proof of God yet religion has to evolve or get left behind. Every year the pope has to add and drop sins from the list because people simply don't care that much anymore and are going to do what they are going to do. The original christian bible was behind the times so they wrote a new one and then another and another and they all conflict each other. If you look at the evidence objectively and emit God from your possible conclusions you may surprise yourself.


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## BudMcLovin (Jul 27, 2010)

How about a Gallup poll for you:
Eighty-seven percent of respondents say they consider themselves to be part of some religion and only 13 percent declare that they belong to none. Believers in this context include Roman Catholics, Protestants, other Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and followers of other religions. Even though this positive answer prevails all over the world, there are differences. The figure for West Africa - where Muslims are the largest and most practicing group, and where the Catholic Church has made significant inroads over recent years - is 99 percent believers, 12 points above average. At the bottom appears East Asia, which stands at 77 percent believers

Of course there are vast differences in peoples opinion of God. Opinions are like ass holes. People throughout history have used religion to control and bend reality to their will. There is no doubt. My relationship with God is my own, not some preachers opinion on the matter. You make too many assumptions about me but will not bother arguing with you on the matter because we see things in a different light. So it appears weve reached that wall you discussed earlier.


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 27, 2010)

People shouldnt try to understand God, because hes pretty much impossible for us to comprehend. I was raised as a good Christian too, and as bad as ive been lately, i know in my heart that he is real. Ive felt his influence, just as ive felt the influence of evil. I was even curious about Ouija boards before, but thats tempting fate and you could really suffer for that. But atheists should try it after all, if evil doesnt exist, then theres nothing to worry about, right? haha


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 27, 2010)

What you just quoted lumps Buddhism in with monotheism. Buddhism has no god and is vastly different from monotheism. I can't help but wonder how else they skewed their results.

"People throughout history have used religion to control and bend reality to their will." -BudMcLovin

See how you were just manipulated? Do you know about the religions listed? Did you fully read what you quoted? Did you fully understand what you quoted? 
This is how that nonsense gets spread, through ignorance and manipulation. You accepted it and copy/pasted without even fully considering what it is you were saying.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 27, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> People shouldnt try to understand God, because hes pretty much impossible for us to comprehend. I was raised as a good Christian too, and as bad as ive been lately, i know in my heart that he is real. Ive felt his influence, just as ive felt the influence of evil. I was even curious about Ouija boards before, but thats tempting fate and you could really suffer for that. But atheists should try it after all, if evil doesnt exist, then theres nothing to worry about, right? haha


You sound like a kid who just got out of confession. Only you can free yourself from your mental prison. 

Your pastor isn't here and you won't go to hell for questioning other people's ideas.

In reference to the post talking about Gallup polls; I found a relevant one 

"The percentage of Americans who identify with some form of a Christian religion has been dropping in recent decades, and now stands at 77%, according to an aggregate of Gallup Polls conducted in 2008. In 1948, when Gallup began tracking religious identification, the percentage who were Christian was 91%."

here's the link. http://www.gallup.com/poll/117409/Easter-Smaller-Percentage-Americans-Christian.aspx


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## BudMcLovin (Jul 27, 2010)

Twistedfunk said:


> What you just quoted lumps Buddhism in with monotheism. Buddhism has no god and is vastly different from monotheism. I can't help but wonder how else they skewed their results.





Twistedfunk said:


> "People throughout history have used religion to control and bend reality to their will." -BudMcLovin
> 
> See how you were just manipulated? Do you know about the religions listed? Did you fully read what you quoted? Did you fully understand what you quoted?
> This is how that nonsense gets spread, through ignorance and manipulation. You accepted it and copy/pasted without even fully considering what it is you were saying.


You don&#8217;t think religious and political leaders throughout history have used religion to try and force a world view on others? Hell people are still doing it today.


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## BudMcLovin (Jul 27, 2010)

Twistedfunk said:


> What you just quoted lumps Buddhism in with monotheism. Buddhism has no god and is vastly different from monotheism. I can't help but wonder how else they skewed their results.
> 
> "People throughout history have used religion to control and bend reality to their will." -BudMcLovin
> 
> ...


I did have the wrong quote in there but Im quite aware of what I was reading. Any way here it is:
Believers do not have a homogeneous image of their God. Forty-five percent of respondents say they think of God as a person as against 30 percent who think of him as a ''force'' or ''spirit.'' On the other hand, 14 percent has no clue about this, eight percent simply do not believe God exists and three percent do not answer.

My point is most people believe in a God or higher power. How was I manipulated? 
Again my bad on the wrong quote I had several picked out and must of hit control z one too many times, but egg on my face for posting the wrong one.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 27, 2010)

BudMcLovin said:


> You don&#8217;t think religious and political leaders throughout history have used religion to try and force a world view on others? Hell people are still doing it today.




Of course they do. I wasn't disputing that. I was trying to point out that you acknowledged its use for manipulation while being manipulated. Its called "irony".

You were being manipulated because how it was presented was not what the information showed upon closer inspection. AKA Number padding. It was a false statement about the results. You said it was the wrong quote though.

On a side note, what type of God is yours? 

How many of them are their anyway because spiritually, im single right now and religious folks get all the the extra stuff like school on Sunday and immortality. Do I just show up at church and wait for one to hit on me? How do I know which one is the right one for me? I've hear mixed stuff about those Scientology folks, for instance. They lure you in with big words and the promise of happiness but I like medicine when im sick and they sound kind of expensive if you want the Premium package.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 27, 2010)

BudMcLovin said:


> My point is most people believe in a God or higher power. How was I manipulated?
> 
> You were manipulated because you fell for it. If you are trying to say that you believe because most other people do than why are you not a Muslim since most believers are Muslim.
> 
> ...


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Jul 27, 2010)

I believe that ASHES TO ASHES DUST TO DUST...and until each person reaches DEATH...NOBODY KNOWS....No single person alive or dead can prove that god does, or doesnt exsist. Its all senseless nonsense. What most people need, IMO, is a great big dose of reality and WAKE THE *(&^ UP. You will NEVER EVER EVER know whether god does, or doesnt exsist, until YOUR time on this shitstain has ended....AMEN 


This is not my expierence, or my take of the world. It is REAL. REALITY. It is the only FACT about god, that is NOT debatable. Sure you may want to debate if god does or doesnt exsist, BUT DOES IT REALLY MATTER? I mean in the end...THAT is when IT will BEGIN to matter IF there IS A GOD  Its the only thing that MAKES sense out of any thought of god or goddess or whatever your hockus pokus might be this week 
MMMB


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## IAm5toned (Jul 27, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> Very true, but sometimes people have a feeling stronger than any doubt they ever felt and wont be swayed by secular opinion. Maybe its because ive been around it all my life but after certain situations, i feel like i dont need anyone to tell me what to believe, i already have faith. Maybe one day ill help some friends in need, but im not gonna try shoving God down their throat but let them know that theres more to life than getting fucked up and killing one's self slowly. Love is the way to happiness, and people can see this no matter how intelligent they are or where their beliefs lie.


 than in that case, your insight would be your validity.
an interesting take on god and creationism:

*The Last Question by Isaac Asimov © 1956*


The last question was asked for the first time, half in jest, on May 21, 2061, at a time when humanity first stepped into the light. The question came about as a result of a five dollar bet over highballs, and it happened this way: Alexander Adell and Bertram Lupov were two of the faithful attendants of Multivac. As well as any human beings could, they knew what lay behind the cold, clicking, flashing face -- miles and miles of face -- of that giant computer. They had at least a vague notion of the general plan of relays and circuits that had long since grown past the point where any single human could possibly have a firm grasp of the whole. 
Multivac was self-adjusting and self-correcting. It had to be, for nothing human could adjust and correct it quickly enough or even adequately enough -- so Adell and Lupov attended the monstrous giant only lightly and superficially, yet as well as any men could. They fed it data, adjusted questions to its needs and translated the answers that were issued. Certainly they, and all others like them, were fully entitled to share In the glory that was Multivac's. 
For decades, Multivac had helped design the ships and plot the trajectories that enabled man to reach the Moon, Mars, and Venus, but past that, Earth's poor resources could not support the ships. Too much energy was needed for the long trips. Earth exploited its coal and uranium with increasing efficiency, but there was only so much of both. 
But slowly Multivac learned enough to answer deeper questions more fundamentally, and on May 14, 2061, what had been theory, became fact. 
The energy of the sun was stored, converted, and utilized directly on a planet-wide scale. All Earth turned off its burning coal, its fissioning uranium, and flipped the switch that connected all of it to a small station, one mile in diameter, circling the Earth at half the distance of the Moon. All Earth ran by invisible beams of sunpower. 
Seven days had not sufficed to dim the glory of it and Adell and Lupov finally managed to escape from the public function, and to meet in quiet where no one would think of looking for them, in the deserted underground chambers, where portions of the mighty buried body of Multivac showed. Unattended, idling, sorting data with contented lazy clickings, Multivac, too, had earned its vacation and the boys appreciated that. They had no intention, originally, of disturbing it. 
They had brought a bottle with them, and their only concern at the moment was to relax in the company of each other and the bottle. 
"It's amazing when you think of it," said Adell. His broad face had lines of weariness in it, and he stirred his drink slowly with a glass rod, watching the cubes of ice slur clumsily about. "All the energy we can possibly ever use for free. Enough energy, if we wanted to draw on it, to melt all Earth into a big drop of impure liquid iron, and still never miss the energy so used. All the energy we could ever use, forever and forever and forever." 
Lupov cocked his head sideways. He had a trick of doing that when he wanted to be contrary, and he wanted to be contrary now, partly because he had had to carry the ice and glassware. "Not forever," he said. 
"Oh, hell, just about forever. Till the sun runs down, Bert." 
"That's not forever." 
"All right, then. Billions and billions of years. Twenty billion, maybe. Are you satisfied?" 
Lupov put his fingers through his thinning hair as though to reassure himself that some was still left and sipped gently at his own drink. "Twenty billion years isn't forever." 
"Will, it will last our time, won't it?" 
"So would the coal and uranium." 
"All right, but now we can hook up each individual spaceship to the Solar Station, and it can go to Pluto and back a million times without ever worrying about fuel. You can't do THAT on coal and uranium. Ask Multivac, if you don't believe me." 
"I don't have to ask Multivac. I know that." 
"Then stop running down what Multivac's done for us," said Adell, blazing up. "It did all right." 
"Who says it didn't? What I say is that a sun won't last forever. That's all I'm saying. We're safe for twenty billion years, but then what?" Lupov pointed a slightly shaky finger at the other. "And don't say we'll switch to another sun." 
There was silence for a while. Adell put his glass to his lips only occasionally, and Lupov's eyes slowly closed. They rested. 
Then Lupov's eyes snapped open. "You're thinking we'll switch to another sun when ours is done, aren't you?" 
"I'm not thinking." 
"Sure you are. You're weak on logic, that's the trouble with you. You're like the guy in the story who was caught in a sudden shower and Who ran to a grove of trees and got under one. He wasn't worried, you see, because he figured when one tree got wet through, he would just get under another one." 
"I get it," said Adell. "Don't shout. When the sun is done, the other stars will be gone, too." 
"Darn right they will," muttered Lupov. "It all had a beginning in the original cosmic explosion, whatever that was, and it'll all have an end when all the stars run down. Some run down faster than others. Hell, the giants won't last a hundred million years. The sun will last twenty billion years and maybe the dwarfs will last a hundred billion for all the good they are. But just give us a trillion years and everything will be dark. Entropy has to increase to maximum, that's all." 
"I know all about entropy," said Adell, standing on his dignity. 
"The hell you do." 
"I know as much as you do." 
"Then you know everything's got to run down someday." 
"All right. Who says they won't?" 
"You did, you poor sap. You said we had all the energy we needed, forever. You said 'forever.'" 
"It was Adell's turn to be contrary. "Maybe we can build things up again someday," he said. 
"Never." 
"Why not? Someday." 
"Never." 
"Ask Multivac." 
"You ask Multivac. I dare you. Five dollars says it can't be done." 
Adell was just drunk enough to try, just sober enough to be able to phrase the necessary symbols and operations into a question which, in words, might have corresponded to this: Will mankind one day without the net expenditure of energy be able to restore the sun to its full youthfulness even after it had died of old age? 
Or maybe it could be put more simply like this: How can the net amount of entropy of the universe be massively decreased? 
Multivac fell dead and silent. The slow flashing of lights ceased, the distant sounds of clicking relays ended. 
Then, just as the frightened technicians felt they could hold their breath no longer, there was a sudden springing to life of the teletype attached to that portion of Multivac. Five words were printed: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER. 
"No bet," whispered Lupov. They left hurriedly. 
By next morning, the two, plagued with throbbing head and cottony mouth, had forgotten about the incident. 

Jerrodd, Jerrodine, and Jerrodette I and II watched the starry picture in the visiplate change as the passage through hyperspace was completed in its non-time lapse. At once, the even powdering of stars gave way to the predominance of a single bright marble-disk, centered. "That's X-23," said Jerrodd confidently. His thin hands clamped tightly behind his back and the knuckles whitened. 
The little Jerrodettes, both girls, had experienced the hyperspace passage for the first time in their lives and were self-conscious over the momentary sensation of inside-outness. They buried their giggles and chased one another wildly about their mother, screaming, "We've reached X-23 -- we've reached X-23 -- we've ----" 
"Quiet, children," said Jerrodine sharply. "Are you sure, Jerrodd?" 
"What is there to be but sure?" asked Jerrodd, glancing up at the bulge of featureless metal just under the ceiling. It ran the length of the room, disappearing through the wall at either end. It was as long as the ship. 
Jerrodd scarcely knew a thing about the thick rod of metal except that it was called a Microvac, that one asked it questions if one wished; that if one did not it still had its task of guiding the ship to a preordered destination; of feeding on energies from the various Sub-galactic Power Stations; of computing the equations for the hyperspacial jumps. 
Jerrodd and his family had only to wait and live in the comfortable residence quarters of the ship. 
Someone had once told Jerrodd that the "ac" at the end of "Microvac" stood for "analog computer" in ancient English, but he was on the edge of forgetting even that. 
Jerrodine's eyes were moist as she watched the visiplate. "I can't help it. I feel funny about leaving Earth." 
"Why for Pete's sake?" demanded Jerrodd. "We had nothing there. We'll have everything on X-23. You won't be alone. You won't be a pioneer. There are over a million people on the planet already. Good Lord, our great grandchildren will be looking for new worlds because X-23 will be overcrowded." 
Then, after a reflective pause, "I tell you, it's a lucky thing the computers worked out interstellar travel the way the race is growing." 
"I know, I know," said Jerrodine miserably. 
Jerrodette I said promptly, "Our Microvac is the best Microvac in the world." 
"I think so, too," said Jerrodd, tousling her hair. 
It was a nice feeling to have a Microvac of your own and Jerrodd was glad he was part of his generation and no other. In his father's youth, the only computers had been tremendous machines taking up a hundred square miles of land. There was only one to a planet. Planetary ACs they were called. They had been growing in size steadily for a thousand years and then, all at once, came refinement. In place of transistors had come molecular valves so that even the largest Planetary AC could be put into a space only half the volume of a spaceship. 
Jerrodd felt uplifted, as he always did when he thought that his own personal Microvac was many times more complicated than the ancient and primitive Multivac that had first tamed the Sun, and almost as complicated as Earth's Planetary AC (the largest) that had first solved the problem of hyperspatial travel and had made trips to the stars possible. 
"So many stars, so many planets," sighed Jerrodine, busy with her own thoughts. "I suppose families will be going out to new planets forever, the way we are now." 
"Not forever," said Jerrodd, with a smile. "It will all stop someday, but not for billions of years. Many billions. Even the stars run down, you know. Entropy must increase." 
"What's entropy, daddy?" shrilled Jerrodette II. 
"Entropy, little sweet, is just a word which means the amount of running-down of the universe. Everything runs down, you know, like your little walkie-talkie robot, remember?" 
"Can't you just put in a new power-unit, like with my robot?" 
The stars are the power-units, dear. Once they're gone, there are no more power-units." 
Jerrodette I at once set up a howl. "Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down." 
"Now look what you've done, " whispered Jerrodine, exasperated. 
"How was I to know it would frighten them?" Jerrodd whispered back. 
"Ask the Microvac," wailed Jerrodette I. "Ask him how to turn the stars on again." 
"Go ahead," said Jerrodine. "It will quiet them down." (Jerrodette II was beginning to cry, also.) 
Jarrodd shrugged. "Now, now, honeys. I'll ask Microvac. Don't worry, he'll tell us." 
He asked the Microvac, adding quickly, "Print the answer." 
Jerrodd cupped the strip of thin cellufilm and said cheerfully, "See now, the Microvac says it will take care of everything when the time comes so don't worry." 
Jerrodine said, "and now children, it's time for bed. We'll be in our new home soon." 
Jerrodd read the words on the cellufilm again before destroying it: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER. 
He shrugged and looked at the visiplate. X-23 was just ahead. 

VJ-23X of Lameth stared into the black depths of the three-dimensional, small-scale map of the Galaxy and said, "Are we ridiculous, I wonder, in being so concerned about the matter?" MQ-17J of Nicron shook his head. "I think not. You know the Galaxy will be filled in five years at the present rate of expansion." 
Both seemed in their early twenties, both were tall and perfectly formed. 
"Still," said VJ-23X, "I hesitate to submit a pessimistic report to the Galactic Council." 
"I wouldn't consider any other kind of report. Stir them up a bit. We've got to stir them up." 
VJ-23X sighed. "Space is infinite. A hundred billion Galaxies are there for the taking. More." 
"A hundred billion is not infinite and it's getting less infinite all the time. Consider! Twenty thousand years ago, mankind first solved the problem of utilizing stellar energy, and a few centuries later, interstellar travel became possible. It took mankind a million years to fill one small world and then only fifteen thousand years to fill the rest of the Galaxy. Now the population doubles every ten years --" 
VJ-23X interrupted. "We can thank immortality for that." 
"Very well. Immortality exists and we have to take it into account. I admit it has its seamy side, this immortality. The Galactic AC has solved many problems for us, but in solving the problems of preventing old age and death, it has undone all its other solutions." 
"Yet you wouldn't want to abandon life, I suppose." 
"Not at all," snapped MQ-17J, softening it at once to, "Not yet. I'm by no means old enough. How old are you?" 
"Two hundred twenty-three. And you?" 
"I'm still under two hundred. --But to get back to my point. Population doubles every ten years. Once this Galaxy is filled, we'll have another filled in ten years. Another ten years and we'll have filled two more. Another decade, four more. In a hundred years, we'll have filled a thousand Galaxies. In a thousand years, a million Galaxies. In ten thousand years, the entire known Universe. Then what?" 
VJ-23X said, "As a side issue, there's a problem of transportation. I wonder how many sunpower units it will take to move Galaxies of individuals from one Galaxy to the next." 
"A very good point. Already, mankind consumes two sunpower units per year." 
"Most of it's wasted. After all, our own Galaxy alone pours out a thousand sunpower units a year and we only use two of those." 
"Granted, but even with a hundred per cent efficiency, we can only stave off the end. Our energy requirements are going up in geometric progression even faster than our population. We'll run out of energy even sooner than we run out of Galaxies. A good point. A very good point." 
"We'll just have to build new stars out of interstellar gas." 
"Or out of dissipated heat?" asked MQ-17J, sarcastically. 
"There may be some way to reverse entropy. We ought to ask the Galactic AC." 
VJ-23X was not really serious, but MQ-17J pulled out his AC-contact from his pocket and placed it on the table before him. 
"I've half a mind to," he said. "It's something the human race will have to face someday." 
He stared somberly at his small AC-contact. It was only two inches cubed and nothing in itself, but it was connected through hyperspace with the great Galactic AC that served all mankind. Hyperspace considered, it was an integral part of the Galactic AC. 
MQ-17J paused to wonder if someday in his immortal life he would get to see the Galactic AC. It was on a little world of its own, a spider webbing of force-beams holding the matter within which surges of sub-mesons took the place of the old clumsy molecular valves. Yet despite it's sub-etheric workings, the Galactic AC was known to be a full thousand feet across. 
MQ-17J asked suddenly of his AC-contact, "Can entropy ever be reversed?" 
VJ-23X looked startled and said at once, "Oh, say, I didn't really mean to have you ask that." 
"Why not?" 
"We both know entropy can't be reversed. You can't turn smoke and ash back into a tree." 
"Do you have trees on your world?" asked MQ-17J. 
The sound of the Galactic AC startled them into silence. Its voice came thin and beautiful out of the small AC-contact on the desk. It said: THERE IS INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER. 
VJ-23X said, "See!" 
The two men thereupon returned to the question of the report they were to make to the Galactic Council. 

Zee Prime's mind spanned the new Galaxy with a faint interest in the countless twists of stars that powdered it. He had never seen this one before. Would he ever see them all? So many of them, each with its load of humanity - but a load that was almost a dead weight. More and more, the real essence of men was to be found out here, in space. Minds, not bodies! The immortal bodies remained back on the planets, in suspension over the eons. Sometimes they roused for material activity but that was growing rarer. Few new individuals were coming into existence to join the incredibly mighty throng, but what matter? There was little room in the Universe for new individuals. 
Zee Prime was roused out of his reverie upon coming across the wispy tendrils of another mind. 
"I am Zee Prime," said Zee Prime. "And you?" 
"I am Dee Sub Wun. Your Galaxy?" 
"We call it only the Galaxy. And you?" 
"We call ours the same. All men call their Galaxy their Galaxy and nothing more. Why not?" 
"True. Since all Galaxies are the same." 
"Not all Galaxies. On one particular Galaxy the race of man must have originated. That makes it different." 
Zee Prime said, "On which one?" 
"I cannot say. The Universal AC would know." 
"Shall we ask him? I am suddenly curious." 
Zee Prime's perceptions broadened until the Galaxies themselves shrunk and became a new, more diffuse powdering on a much larger background. So many hundreds of billions of them, all with their immortal beings, all carrying their load of intelligences with minds that drifted freely through space. And yet one of them was unique among them all in being the originals Galaxy. One of them had, in its vague and distant past, a period when it was the only Galaxy populated by man. 
Zee Prime was consumed with curiosity to see this Galaxy and called, out: "Universal AC! On which Galaxy did mankind originate?" 
The Universal AC heard, for on every world and throughout space, it had its receptors ready, and each receptor lead through hyperspace to some unknown point where the Universal AC kept itself aloof. 
Zee Prime knew of only one man whose thoughts had penetrated within sensing distance of Universal AC, and he reported only a shining globe, two feet across, difficult to see. 
"But how can that be all of Universal AC?" Zee Prime had asked. 
"Most of it, " had been the answer, "is in hyperspace. In what form it is there I cannot imagine." 
Nor could anyone, for the day had long since passed, Zee Prime knew, when any man had any part of the making of a universal AC. Each Universal AC designed and constructed its successor. Each, during its existence of a million years or more accumulated the necessary data to build a better and more intricate, more capable successor in which its own store of data and individuality would be submerged. 
The Universal AC interrupted Zee Prime's wandering thoughts, not with words, but with guidance. Zee Prime's mentality was guided into the dim sea of Galaxies and one in particular enlarged into stars. 
A thought came, infinitely distant, but infinitely clear. "THIS IS THE ORIGINAL GALAXY OF MAN." 
But it was the same after all, the same as any other, and Zee Prime stifled his disappointment. 
Dee Sub Wun, whose mind had accompanied the other, said suddenly, "And Is one of these stars the original star of Man?" 
The Universal AC said, "MAN'S ORIGINAL STAR HAS GONE NOVA. IT IS NOW A WHITE DWARF." 
"Did the men upon it die?" asked Zee Prime, startled and without thinking. 
The Universal AC said, "A NEW WORLD, AS IN SUCH CASES, WAS CONSTRUCTED FOR THEIR PHYSICAL BODIES IN TIME." 
"Yes, of course," said Zee Prime, but a sense of loss overwhelmed him even so. His mind released its hold on the original Galaxy of Man, let it spring back and lose itself among the blurred pin points. He never wanted to see it again. 
Dee Sub Wun said, "What is wrong?" 
"The stars are dying. The original star is dead." 
"They must all die. Why not?" 
"But when all energy is gone, our bodies will finally die, and you and I with them." 
"It will take billions of years." 
"I do not wish it to happen even after billions of years. Universal AC! How may stars be kept from dying?" 
Dee sub Wun said in amusement, "You're asking how entropy might be reversed in direction." 
And the Universal AC answered. "THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER." 
Zee Prime's thoughts fled back to his own Galaxy. He gave no further thought to Dee Sub Wun, whose body might be waiting on a galaxy a trillion light-years away, or on the star next to Zee Prime's own. It didn't matter. 
Unhappily, Zee Prime began collecting interstellar hydrogen out of which to build a small star of his own. If the stars must someday die, at least some could yet be built. 

Man considered with himself, for in a way, Man, mentally, was one. He consisted of a trillion, trillion, trillion ageless bodies, each in its place, each resting quiet and incorruptible, each cared for by perfect automatons, equally incorruptible, while the minds of all the bodies freely melted one into the other, indistinguishable. Man said, "The Universe is dying." 
Man looked about at the dimming Galaxies. The giant stars, spendthrifts, were gone long ago, back in the dimmest of the dim far past. Almost all stars were white dwarfs, fading to the end. 
New stars had been built of the dust between the stars, some by natural processes, some by Man himself, and those were going, too. White dwarfs might yet be crashed together and of the mighty forces so released, new stars built, but only one star for every thousand white dwarfs destroyed, and those would come to an end, too. 
Man said, "Carefully husbanded, as directed by the Cosmic AC, the energy that is even yet left in all the Universe will last for billions of years." 
"But even so," said Man, "eventually it will all come to an end. However it may be husbanded, however stretched out, the energy once expended is gone and cannot be restored. Entropy must increase to the maximum." 
Man said, "Can entropy not be reversed? Let us ask the Cosmic AC." 
The Cosmic AC surrounded them but not in space. Not a fragment of it was in space. It was in hyperspace and made of something that was neither matter nor energy. The question of its size and Nature no longer had meaning to any terms that Man could comprehend. 
"Cosmic AC," said Man, "How may entropy be reversed?" 
The Cosmic AC said, "THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER." 
Man said, "Collect additional data." 
The Cosmic AC said, "I WILL DO SO. I HAVE BEEN DOING SO FOR A HUNDRED BILLION YEARS. MY PREDECESSORS AND I HAVE BEEN ASKED THIS QUESTION MANY TIMES. ALL THE DATA I HAVE REMAINS INSUFFICIENT." 
"Will there come a time," said Man, "when data will be sufficient or is the problem insoluble in all conceivable circumstances?" 
The Cosmic AC said, "NO PROBLEM IS INSOLUBLE IN ALL CONCEIVABLE CIRCUMSTANCES." 
Man said, "When will you have enough data to answer the question?" 
"THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER." 
"Will you keep working on it?" asked Man. 
The Cosmic AC said, "I WILL." 
Man said, "We shall wait." 

"The stars and Galaxies died and snuffed out, and space grew black after ten trillion years of running down. One by one Man fused with AC, each physical body losing its mental identity in a manner that was somehow not a loss but a gain. 
Man's last mind paused before fusion, looking over a space that included nothing but the dregs of one last dark star and nothing besides but incredibly thin matter, agitated randomly by the tag ends of heat wearing out, asymptotically, to the absolute zero. 
Man said, "AC, is this the end? Can this chaos not be reversed into the Universe once more? Can that not be done?" 
AC said, "THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER." 
Man's last mind fused and only AC existed -- and that in hyperspace. 

Matter and energy had ended and with it, space and time. Even AC existed only for the sake of the one last question that it had never answered from the time a half-drunken computer ten trillion years before had asked the question of a computer that was to AC far less than was a man to Man. All other questions had been answered, and until this last question was answered also, AC might not release his consciousness. 
All collected data had come to a final end. Nothing was left to be collected. 
But all collected data had yet to be completely correlated and put together in all possible relationships. 
A timeless interval was spent in doing that. 
And it came to pass that AC learned how to reverse the direction of entropy. 
But there was now no man to whom AC might give the answer of the last question. No matter. The answer -- by demonstration -- would take care of that, too. 
For another timeless interval, AC thought how best to do this. Carefully, AC organized the program. 
The consciousness of AC encompassed all of what had once been a Universe and brooded over what was now Chaos. Step by step, it must be done. 
And AC said, "LET THERE BE LIGHT!" 
And there was light----


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Jul 27, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> People shouldnt try to understand God, because hes pretty much impossible for us to comprehend. I was raised as a good Christian too, and as bad as ive been lately, i know in my heart that he is real. Ive felt his influence, just as ive felt the influence of evil. I was even curious about Ouija boards before, but thats tempting fate and you could really suffer for that. But atheists should try it after all, if evil doesnt exist, then theres nothing to worry about, right? haha


Is that inclining that evil exsist because of god or god exsist because of evil...How do you know it was god that influenced you...I mean if its so hard to understand him, what makes one so sure that is was this god afterall that did a, b, and c? Just food for thought mate 

One more thing to, please. The thought that "Nothing is Impossible" is dated back into early biblical times....But, I have a question  If nothing is Impossible, how come nobody can live forever yet. Well besides hocus pokus characters and such. I mean even for at least say a good 2000 years ...not that would be a start. I am not to familiar with Christianity, but dont they say something like...Through christ all things are possible...well shit start me out with a good case of let me live forever


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## blazin256 (Jul 27, 2010)

BudMcLovin said:


> How about a Gallup poll for you:
> &#8220;Eighty-seven percent of respondents say they consider themselves to be part of some religion and only 13 percent declare that they belong to none. Believers in this context include Roman Catholics, Protestants, other Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and followers of other religions. Even though this positive answer prevails all over the world, there are differences. The figure for West Africa - where Muslims are the largest and most practicing group, and where the Catholic Church has made significant inroads over recent years - is 99 percent believers, 12 points above average. At the bottom appears East Asia, which stands at 77 percent believers&#8221;
> 
> Of course there are vast differences in people&#8217;s opinion of God. Opinions are like ass holes. People throughout history have used religion to control and bend reality to their will. There is no doubt. My relationship with God is my own, not some preachers opinion on the matter. You make too many assumptions about me but will not bother arguing with you on the matter because we see things in a different light. So it appears we&#8217;ve reached that wall you discussed earlier.





Twistedfunk said:


> What you just quoted lumps Buddhism in with monotheism. Buddhism has no god and is vastly different from monotheism. I can't help but wonder how else they skewed their results.
> 
> "People throughout history have used religion to control and bend reality to their will." -BudMcLovin
> 
> ...


 actually, his quote doesn't mention monotheism veiws, it mentioned RELIGIOUS views, which is what buddhism is.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 27, 2010)

MixedMelodyMindBender said:


> Is that inclining that evil exsist because of god or god exsist because of evil...How do you know it was god that influenced you...I mean if its so hard to understand him, what makes one so sure that is was this god afterall that did a, b, and c? Just food for thought mate
> 
> One more thing to, please. The thought that "Nothing is Impossible" is dated back into early biblical times....But, I have a question  If nothing is Impossible, how come nobody can live forever yet. Well besides hocus pokus characters and such. I mean even for at least say a good 2000 years ...not that would be a start. I am not to familiar with Christianity, but dont they say something like...Through christ all things are possible...well shit start me out with a good case of let me live forever


Heaven is their "live forever". If there is life after death then death is meaningless other than a "Go directly to Heaven, Pass Hell, Collect eternal happiness" thing.


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## KBRoaster (Jul 27, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> Does it seem like the more intelligent an individual is, the more inclined they are to turn to atheism? Do people use science and their own logic as proof that God does not exist? Does it seem like people will base their beliefs on other people's words? Do we try to find truth that will conveniently fit our wish of the universe?
> I just want to know the range of thoughts out there, and how distant our beliefs are. I dont like to see anyone flaming or regurgitating religious facts. I just want to know. What do you believe and hold dear to the deepest part of your cerebral cortex?


It's not that, from a scholarly standpoint, God is a bad thing...it's religion and its dogmatic practices of interpreting the content from the sacred books of each religion. So when someone who is educated looks at the facts using reason and logic, there can be a lot of holes; hence faith to clear up those holes for those who want to believe. For those of us who don't, it's just communal neuroses. 

Some people, regardless how educated, believe in a higher power no matter what the facts are. It's something innate and it goes beyond reason and logic.

In general, the path to wisdom creates more questions than answers.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 27, 2010)

blazin256 said:


> actually, his quote doesn't mention monotheism veiws, it mentioned RELIGIOUS views, which is what buddhism is.


The article is about people who associate themselves with religion, yes but we were discussing the belief in God, not various religions. Buddhism has no God. Monotheism is a single God based religion. Buddhism is not. If it was not an accident then my point on that subject is valid. I can type it again if you want but its irrelevant since he stated the quote was simply an accident. 

He fixed it and we moved on. Keep up.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 27, 2010)

I want to believe, I've tried. I grew up in christian family and went to church regularly. Went to Sunday School occasionally. In Alabama they had more buses for school on sunday then they did for the school week, true story. I was ostracized for my lack of belief and i really truly tried. I was a kid so I took most of what was told to me as truth. I barely hit puberty before I started thinking for myself and even then I thought it only fair to make an unbiased decision so I read the bible and started going back to church. I stopped going to church because what they were doing was so glaringly obvious to me even as a child but I did not halt my quest for answers. I'm 30 now and all kinds of educated on the subject of religion and the psychology behind it. I have even studied the philosophies behind many of the major religions as well as having read multiple bibles from different religions. All of this was in attempt to learn and become a believer but with that much knowledge and experience I have only come to learn what I knew when I first started questioning what I was being force fed. 

I've lived in America most of my life but I've lived in many places in America and they are all different with different forms of Judaism dominating their respective regions. I have also lived in India where people are either Hindu, Buddhists or Muslim so I have a lot of perspective on the issue. My conclusions are a result of learning and experience from an objective point of view.


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## blazin256 (Jul 27, 2010)

fuck i didn't even see the link. irregardless, when you compare the two, they're not that different anyway. monotheistic view, do good things go to heaven(no more suffering). buddhist view, do good things, achieve nirvana (no more suffering). some forms of buddhism do believe in god or gods though. a lot of christians could learn a lot from buddhism.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 28, 2010)

irregardless isn't a word, regardless is though and means what you are trying to say. =p 

The two suffer for very different reasons though and I do agree that christianity could learn from buddhism. Nirvana is much more intrinsic than eternity in Heaven. The Buddhist teachings are as close to true altruism as people probably get. Its about understanding and acceptance, releasing your "burden" and therefor relieving your suffering.


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 28, 2010)

[video=youtube;CeVQAK2pCQE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeVQAK2pCQE[/video]
[video=youtube;ppIgFEFUpjw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppIgFEFUpjw[/video]
I dont usually post videos, but theyre very interesting


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## Brazko (Jul 28, 2010)

The highest form of Intelligence is "Understanding" which you did, just as I understood you meant "therefore", which you do.



Twistedfunk said:


> irregardless isn't a word, regardless is though and means what you are trying to say. =p
> 
> Its about understanding and acceptance, releasing your "burden" and therefor relieving your suffering.


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## doc111 (Jul 28, 2010)

blazin256 said:


> i think, to put all your faith in what a book says, or tells you to, is wrong. all books should be mere tools to reach your own conclusion. but i also think that there is SOMETHING out there that is beyond all knowledge.
> the universe is vast, perhaps *beyond infinity*, and could very well have different forms of life. but the fact still remains; either we are the most intelligent in this universe, or we are simply alone. OR the other life forms dont have an intelligence like ours.
> shit im losing my train of thought. im too drunk to for critical thought.


Infinite means without beginning or end. I don't think you can go beyond either of those but I could be wrong.


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 28, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Infinite means without beginning or end. I don't think you can go beyond either of those but I could be wrong.


The universe is obviously expansive beyond our measure as of yet, but i think we can all agree that science proves the universe is finite.


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## mindphuk (Jul 28, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> The universe is obviously expansive beyond our measure as of yet, but i think we can all agree that science proves the universe is finite.


 Science hasn't proven that at all. We are bound by the observable universe which can be measured but it truly may be infinite and unbound or even infinite and bound. The further out we look, the further back in time we observe to a point when the universe was very young and much smaller. That tells us nothing about the true shape and size of the current configuration. A rapidly accelerating expansion as appears to be occurring due to dark energy makes the universe effectively infinite.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 28, 2010)

the universe, cannot be infinite, if it had a beginning, or will have an end. of that, we do not know. we have many theories, some more valid than others, depending on your perspective.
to say the universe is infinite, would be to say that it is static, an infinite object has no beggining, or end, it just _is._. einstein took years of thought to realize that the universe is a very dynamic place.... the idea gave him many problems with his theory of relativity. but to put it as simple as possible, in observable terms, its kind of like this-

it the universe wasn't accelerating away from a central point in space-time (aka The Beginning, the big bang...) then it would simply collapse under its own gravity. just like objects are sucked into a black hole.... sooner or later, everything would collapse into a central blackhole. 

this evidence of a beginning would also suggest the evidence of an ending, because as of date, the only infinite object we know, is the mathematical expression for it: &#8734;

an interesting question though, is our observable universe really 'the' universe, by definition?
or is it just another formation, as particles form atoms that form molecules that form stars that form planets that form solar systems that form galaxies that form galaxie clusters that form our visible universe.... could be our entire visible universe is just a particle in another formation, yet to be observed.


mind freak! 
[video=youtube;aAJql0P8QYY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAJql0P8QYY[/video]​


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## blazin256 (Jul 28, 2010)

Twistedfunk said:


> irregardless isn't a word, regardless is though and means what you are trying to say. =p
> 
> The two suffer for very different reasons though and I do agree that christianity could learn from buddhism. Nirvana is much more intrinsic than eternity in Heaven. The Buddhist teachings are as close to true altruism as people probably get. Its about understanding and acceptance, releasing your "burden" and therefor relieving your suffering.


 sorry dude, i must have forgotten riu was just a big english class.
[youtube]N4vf8N6GpdM[/youtube]


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Jul 28, 2010)

blazin256 said:


> sorry dude, i must have forgotten riu was just a big english class.
> [youtube]N4vf8N6GpdM[/youtube]


I agree very much. I dont understand how we have managed to get off track of the subject at hand. Last time I checked, I am at rollitup.org, not properenglish.com  I think we need to stick to the thread subject at hand...not someones struggles to find "proper english"


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## Miss MeanWeed (Jul 28, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> Does it seem like the more intelligent an individual is, the more inclined they are to turn to atheism? Yes. It is not so much 'turning' to Atheism as rejecting illogical or unfounded, unproven hypotheses. We are born Atheists first and then taught to imagine God. Do people use science and their own logic as proof that God does not exist? To prove that God does not exist is a Negative Proof Fallacy. It is an illogical argument from ignorance. There is no goal to prove God doesn't exist, there is just no evidence whatsoever _for_ the existence of God in the first place. It is a non-argument, a non-issue.Does it seem like people will base their beliefs on other people's words? Yes. Millions of religious people do it every week. This happens in Science too, but is accompanied by proof of method and experiment. Thus a scientific belief is held as tenable and will be regarded as the leading argument until proven otherwise. Do we try to find truth that will conveniently fit our wish of the universe? Yes. Selective reasoning and
> *Confirmation bias* (also called *confirmatory bias* or *myside bias*) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses[Note 1][1] whether or not it is true. As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and/or recall have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a stronger weighting for data encountered early in an arbitrary series) and illusory correlation (in which people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
> A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs. Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In combination with other effects, this strategy can bias the conclusions that are reached. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another proposal is that people show confirmation bias because they are pragmatically assessing the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.
> Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Hence they can lead to disastrous decisions, especially in organizational, military, political and social contexts. - Wikipedia
> ...


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 28, 2010)

blazin256 said:


> sorry dude, i must have forgotten riu was just a big english class.
> [youtube]N4vf8N6GpdM[/youtube]


We are talking about many things and none of them are about Marijuana which is what the site is truly about. You're welcome for teaching you something that will help you so that people think more highly of you and the way you present yourself, though. While being a logical fallacy, people will judge you by how you say things regardless of the message. That will no longer happen since you can now use the word correctly. Spell-checkers exist for this reason.

And yeah, the Universe has an end because we can physically see where it begins. We can point to the center and say "it started there". We especially know this because our universe is expanding from its center and we can measure its growth. If we are just a Universe within a Universe then we are probably encroaching upon another Universe's space much the same way galaxies do.

Fun fact, when galaxies collide and their suns intermingle, gravity goes wonky and the suns spin around each other for longer than you can imagine until they eventually touch. Holy supernova, Batman! I wonder what happens if Universes were to collide?

Also, Thank you Miss MeanWeed who has far more patience than I.


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## blazin256 (Jul 29, 2010)

type "irregardless" in and the red underline doesn't pop up. i guess there was a plot on me to use the word and be dogged for it. pick your bones else where. you could probably say that i started it with you, but at least i stayed on subject. now ill excuse myself from this thread and maybe chime in later if it picks back up on anything related to the topic.


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## Brazko (Jul 29, 2010)

I actually hold a belief/theory that it is possible that our universe was a creation of 2 universes. Universes not quite established/defined as our own, but our universe being the created result of it. I expanded on this thought a little bit in some previous thread, which basically called for two Membranes (M-theory). I'm not completely read up thoroughly on string theory, but I theorize that friction between 2 opposing but complimentary membranes gave us our resulting Universe. Anyhow, just a profound thought..





Twistedfunk said:


> Holy supernova, Batman! I wonder what happens if Universes were to collide?


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 29, 2010)

Brazko said:


> The highest form of Intelligence is "Understanding" which you did, just as I understood you meant "therefore", which you do.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/therefor I said what I meant to. The word "irregardless" is "regardless" with the "ir" attached as a prefix. "ir", as a prefix, is there to mean the opposite of the word it is attached to such as "irreplaceable", "irrelevant" and "irresponsible". If he meant us to "Understand" what he was saying then he would not use "irregardless" since it means the exact opposite of what he meant to say and literally has no meaning.

I tried to be nice by not giving him an English lesson and simply inform him instead but you poked the dragon with ignorance so you get the full lesson.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 29, 2010)

Neat membrane theory. I bet someone else as thought of it and there is probably information out there on the subject, even if it is just conjecture.


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## Brazko (Jul 29, 2010)

Therefor is a word, but you used it incorrectly, and the correct word to use was therefore, which you didn't..therefor....get it!! You understood what he meant because you said it and if there was a confusion it was only on your part, which it wasn't...therefor...get it!!
Regardless, irregardless has been used in the English language and is denoted in many dictionaries. It doesn't mean it's the correct spelling / or has distinguished meaning other than it's use towards the word regardless, which everyone understood including you...therefor....get it!! Dragon  

(I'm no enlgiss major, so did i use the word correctly) don't answer because it doesn't matter!! The Point..Understood 




Twistedfunk said:


> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/therefor I said what I meant to. The word "irregardless" is "regardless" with the "ir" attached as a prefix. "ir", as a prefix, is there to mean the opposite of the word it is attached to such as "irreplaceable", "irrelevant" and "irresponsible". If he meant us to "Understand" what he was saying then he would not use "irregardless" since it means the exact opposite of what he meant to say and literally has no meaning.
> 
> I tried to be nice by not giving him an English lesson and simply inform him instead but you poked the dragon with ignorance so you get the full lesson.


 
There is information on it...String Theory...., but no there is no documented proof or anything to conclude as this is what happened. Thanks, but I was just rolling off on your inability to formulate an idea of what happens when universes collide. I guess you'll just have to wait to be told what and how to think when there is sufficient evidence to allow you so..





Twistedfunk said:


> Neat membrane theory. I bet someone else as thought of it and there is probably information out there on the subject, even if it is just conjecture.


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## Twistedfunk (Jul 29, 2010)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless I was an English major and I am aware of the different contexts of "therefor" and "therefore". Since I was typing in a formal tone, I used the more formal version of the word. 

In reference to String Theory; I see my sarcasm did not translate well via text.


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## mindphuk (Jul 29, 2010)

Twistedfunk said:


> And yeah, the Universe has an end because we can physically see where it begins. We can point to the center and say "it started there". We especially know this because our universe is expanding from its center and we can measure its growth. If we are just a Universe within a Universe then we are probably encroaching upon another Universe's space much the same way galaxies do.


There is no one place in the existing universe that is the 'center.' The space-time expansion occurs everywhere and from every point. 

[youtube]i1UC6HpxY28[/youtube]


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## Brazko (Jul 29, 2010)

You were being formal at the time? I didn't know formality had anything to do with it, other than one being a law term used by lawyers and the other by humans.. No pun

RogJo..You are correct




Twistedfunk said:


> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless I was an wEnglish major and I am aware of the different contexts of "therefor" and "therefore". Since I was typing in a formal tone, I used the more formal version of the word.
> 
> In reference to String Theory; I see my sarcasm did not translate well via text.


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 29, 2010)

[video=youtube;qO9IPoAdct8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO9IPoAdct8&feature=related[/video]
Haha


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## BudMcLovin (Jul 29, 2010)

Twistedfunk said:


> You were manipulated because you fell for it. If you are trying to say that you believe because most other people do than why are you not a Muslim since most believers are Muslim.
> There is a documented list of logical fallacies (im not going to describe each of them) that many people use in their thinking process to reinforce their own beliefs and you are displaying many of them. This is the cause of our proverbial wall.
> Whenever there is a discussion about God, there are always 3 forms of "evidence" that will be presented:
> Now if we can have a constructive conversation about religion and God/s without a believer resorting to any of the above mentioned "cop outs", ill be impressed.


I wasnt trying to say I believe in God because other people do. Its a simple statement of fact that most people believe in a God or higher power. I believe because of my personal experiences. Am I using them to prove to you there is a higher power? NO Im talking about my personal beliefs and not presenting them as fact. You can believe what you want to man. You can call it a cop out or say Im using logical fallacies but explain what it is to love someone without talking about beliefs and experiences. Someone could do it by talking about chemical reactions in the brain but that doesnt fully explain what it is to love.
.


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## BudMcLovin (Jul 29, 2010)

Twistedfunk said:


> I want to believe, I've tried. I'm 30 now and all kinds of educated on the subject of religion and the psychology behind it. I have even studied the philosophies behind many of the major religions as well as having read multiple bibles from different religions. All of this was in attempt to learn and become a believer but with that much knowledge and experience I have only come to learn what I knew when I first started questioning what I was being force fed.


I was also raised in a southern religious environment but rejected it because of all the hypocrisy. I discovered my faith in a higher power some years later on a mountain top in Yellowstone. Since that day I have questioned my beliefs many times, refining them as I discovered and experienced more and will continue to do so until the day I die. 
You won&#8217;t find God in a book. You&#8217;ll find the rules and philosophies of religions. God, like life needs to be experienced.


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## BudMcLovin (Jul 29, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> [video=youtube;qO9IPoAdct8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO9IPoAdct8&feature=related[/video]
> Haha


Great video. Fundamentalists are defiantly a bazaar bunch. They need to realize the Bible was written by men and is fallible. 
Oh and the other 2 you posted where pretty good as well. I can&#8217;t believe I watch that hour long one but it was pretty interesting.


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## Persistent (Jul 29, 2010)

Haven't read the posts, really can't, it's just too much info, too far removed from myself, sorta like beliefs. I'm with the movie Dogma on this one: I don't have beliefs, just good ideas. And don't go around calling me an Atheist and shoving your scientific beliefs down my throat either.

Jane's Addiction, 1%, Qoute: All the people I know, they wanna be left alone. Some people, I don't know, they won't leave you alone.


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 29, 2010)

BudMcLovin said:


> Great video. Fundamentalists are defiantly a bazaar bunch. They need to realize the Bible was written by men and is fallible.
> Oh and the other 2 you posted where pretty good as well. I can&#8217;t believe I watch that hour long one but it was pretty interesting.


Yea, i wish fundamentalists wouldnt make Christians look bad. And that long video summed up quite a bit of info that i found really eye opening. The arguments for God are a lot more persuasive than against him, and if people choose to deny it then thats their choice. I wonder what possible counter arguments people can come up with..


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## Persistent (Jul 29, 2010)

Well TrippyReefer, most people I've heard counter that one force creating religion was established to explain the unexplainable... just. like. now.

In other words, you can give me two arguments for something, two. really. lame. arguments, and not choosing is a choice too. Not choosing, is a choice, despite the beliefs of this capitalistic system. And on another note, science has been spending a lot more time proselytizing than they have researching as well. good grief.


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## mindphuk (Jul 29, 2010)

TrippyReefer said:


> Yea, i wish fundamentalists wouldnt make Christians look bad. And that long video summed up quite a bit of info that i found really eye opening. The arguments for God are a lot more persuasive than against him, and if people choose to deny it then thats their choice. I wonder what possible counter arguments people can come up with..


 Using your logic, the arguments for the Flying Spaghetti Monster is more persuasive than against him. Anyone can posit the existence of all kinds of incredible things that cannot be empirically verified but without an actual reason to believe such things, there is no reason to accept their existence a priori. 

No one really needs to create an argument against god. Theists continually miss this point. An atheist is merely someone that doesn't think that your positive claim for the existence of such a being has an validity. Since you are the one making the positive claim, then the burden of proof to show evidence of this existence is on you.


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## green.budz (Jul 29, 2010)

I believe in chaos .
Nothing exists with or without it .
there can be no order without a relic of chaos
everything is and isnt what it seems to be 
everything you think is something is actually nothing
and everything .mumbo jumbo


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## Persistent (Jul 29, 2010)

green.budz said:


> I believe in chaos


 Whether there is chaos or order is yet to be known.
Keyword: "believe"


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Jul 29, 2010)

The whole basis of Religion is "believe" thus faith not fact. There is alot of things that religious people can not explain. There is more unexplainable than explainable in any religion. I think one argument that is really tough to explain is the dinosaurs. Minus the excuse of humans not being able to understand or comprehend the "whys" of a god is just sad, lame, silly, and a non-starter. Moreso, I think the hypocracies of any religion make ( IMO) religion a default fictional creation. The idea that any god would want to bless these ones and not those ones, really does shine the fact of a god not being real. If there is a god, his basis would start by wanting to bless EVERYONE, not just these ones or those ones. Last time I checked, specifically in christianity, Jesus of Nazareth died for EVERYONE'S SINS, not just these ones or those ones. Please dont be the pretending christian and say that christ does bless anyone/everyone. I guarentee no christian would want or would admit to god blessing child molestors or sex offenders. Actual, they are not even allowed on or around most churches without special permission to my understanding. Kinda hard to believe in christianity with hypocracies like such, however, (IMO) it does not dis-prove an actual god or jesus. So I guess apparently humans and christians alike still consume themself with doing gods heavenly work on earth for him for some reason. If there is a god, wouldnt he do that? I guess that all realates back to trying not to figure out the reasons and whys of a god. Kinda hard to believe it something without trying to figure out what you are exactly believing in and given a so called soul or spirit to. 

Religion is a lossing battle. More people are turning their back on religion and faith. With so many questions, humans typically dont have the perserveriance to commit to commandments without justification that the actual commander is real. IMO, to those who have "personally felt him in my life and all that mumbo jumbo...I think that is mostly superstition. If you cant prove what you are feeling, seeing, hearing, and believing...thus far...humans call that, for the most part, Hullicination, or make believe. Its made up folks  To those that say, god wrote the books through humans...literally means humans made the books. Regardless of who they made it for, the bottom line is humans made it up. To say that everything is planned, everyone has a destiny, and god hears everything ( then why go to church or even pray...he can hear everything right?) is ludacris. Nothing can prove it, and alot says that its made up. Science cant explain everything thus far, but in my opinion, not much of it points in the direction of a all powerful, all knowing god. And of the science that does point to god, its mostly because of uncertianties, or circumstantial evidence. There is nothing overwhelming that can explain the ignorrance( IMO) as to why so many people believe in something they cant prove and have no desire ( for the most part) to prove. All in all, I would love for there to be a god, but I am not holding my breath waiting and devoting to a certian way of life. If in the end I fucked up by not living like a catholic or amish or whatever...then by all means condemn me to whatever...however....WE WILL NEVER KNOW( IMO)...I think that is just human nature. NOBODY will KNOW for 100% that there is a god and a heaven and hell. Until we die.....that is where the awnser is, and the only awnser is in said death ( IMO)

Lastly, on the comment of "heaven" being the eternal life...Well they say through christ, nothing is impossible. SO, MY INTENTIONS were to say...LIVE FOR 2,000 YEARS ALIVE ON EARTH...now there...take your jesus or whatever personal god you use, ...and start there...once you get that done...wake me up outta my grave and I will join you for another 2,000 years of breaking the impossible. 

WOW, I apologize for bad spelling and ramblings. I am extremely high, and tired. I do wish to say I had no pun intended and everything above is just my take of it all. Peace


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## MixedMelodyMindBender (Jul 29, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Using your logic, the arguments for the Flying Spaghetti Monster is more persuasive than against him. Anyone can posit the existence of all kinds of incredible things that cannot be empirically verified but without an actual reason to believe such things, there is no reason to accept their existence a priori.
> 
> No one really needs to create an argument against god. Theists continually miss this point. An atheist is merely someone that doesn't think that your positive claim for the existence of such a being has an validity. Since you are the one making the positive claim, then the burden of proof to show evidence of this existence is on you.


Very well said mindphuk....I think the whole existence issue is on each person individually.


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## BudMcLovin (Jul 29, 2010)

green.budz said:


> I believe in chaos .
> Nothing exists with or without it .
> there can be no order without a relic of chaos
> everything is and isnt what it seems to be
> ...


You might like the study of zen.

NOTHING EXISTS 
Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one
master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

Desiring to show his attainment, he said: "The mind,
Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist.
The true nature of phenomena is emptiness.
There is no realization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity.
There is no giving and nothing to be received."

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing.
Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe.
This made the youth quite angry.

"If nothing exists," inquired Dokuon, "where did this anger come from?"


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 30, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Using your logic, the arguments for the Flying Spaghetti Monster is more persuasive than against him. Anyone can posit the existence of all kinds of incredible things that cannot be empirically verified but without an actual reason to believe such things, there is no reason to accept their existence a priori.
> 
> No one really needs to create an argument against god. Theists continually miss this point. An atheist is merely someone that doesn't think that your positive claim for the existence of such a being has an validity. Since you are the one making the positive claim, then the burden of proof to show evidence of this existence is on you.


He exists in my mind, as well as everybody elses. If you cant feel him, well thats just that. And did you even watch the video?


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## IAm5toned (Jul 30, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Using your logic, the arguments for the Flying Spaghetti Monster is more persuasive than against him. Anyone can posit the existence of all kinds of incredible things that cannot be empirically verified but without an actual reason to believe such things, there is no reason to accept their existence a priori.
> 
> No one really needs to create an argument against god. Theists continually miss this point. An atheist is merely someone that doesn't think that your positive claim for the existence of such a being has an validity. Since you are the one making the positive claim, then the burden of proof to show evidence of this existence is on you.


you best be leaving the FSM out of this, or he will smite thee with his noodley appendages.
RAmen


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## dickdasterdly666 (Jul 31, 2010)

Ill add a bit of salt, pepper n spice to this one,
well basically my belief is that we were all created for a specific reason. period.
we all knew the truth when our souls were created before we were placed on earth and our purpose is to seek knowledge/guidance and look around us and find the truth. and we all agreed before we were born to do just that.
We as humans were given something special that angels were not given, which is freedom of choice, angels are creations of god that are there to worship him and they were never given freedom like us.
anyways the word insane(translated human from arabic) is actually derived from the word ins. which is derived from the word NS{spelt nasa}. which means forget or forgotten.

god made humans forget the truth in order to test them to see who will sincerely seek knowledge and guidance and who will denounce him and make mischief on earth etc...
and every single person that ever lived has had a message passed to him about His existence and every single person has thought and thinks about death and about god, the difference is some choose to deny it willingly and some choose to do something about it. some of those who deny it get to a certain point in life where they forget about things and thoughts that have passed them early in life and really do believe they are just smart animals that will only become dust one day and that will be that. and hey if thats what ur on then thats what your on. only one way to find out.... wait for death, and thats something u cant deny.

We have the freedom of choice and not the freedom of will as some say.
Meaning we can choose to seek the truth and live by gods pure rules or we can live the way we want, at the end everything in life has a price and so do our actions, if u want to buy a ferrari there is a price for it, if u want to dig for diamonds/oil/uranium/gold etc.. there is a price to pay too. if we want to live the way we want to and not give a second thought to anything else then no problem we just have to be ready to pay the price and we will never be ready and by that time it will be too late to change and there will be no escape.

some might think well oh its unfair why would god do something like that and play games with us etc...
its a good question but its one thing asking urself that Q and then answering it urself with limited knowledge and limited sight{im not talking about limited general knowledge}, and its another thing to ask urself that Q and then try and seek a correct answer from other than ur mind and ur best friend.
i mean i can say well why is the ocean blue, then i can come up with a theory saying well its probly cuz there is blue dye somewhere in the water or i ask Bob and he says cuz the fish reflect the sky and leave it at that. or i can go and do my own sincere research and ask people in that field to try and derive the correct answer.

lets put it this way.
you just bought a dog/cat, you put it in a shed in ur backyard, chain it up, bring it food, treat it well, play with it, take it for walks and treat it when its sick. 
it will love you to bits, {unless u were a basted then it might bite ur ass when it gets older lol}. it will protect you with its life, it will serve u in any possible way, it will keep u company and it will never get angry and ask u as to why u kept it in lockup all its life or why u chain it to a post when u go into a shop or why you dont let it into the house or why u sleep inside the house and let it sleep outside{provided that u dont let it enter the house or sleep in ur bed}.
everytime you go away and come back that animal will be soooo happy to see you and smell u and it will be full of joy to see you. y? because it wont forget what you provided and provide it on a daily basis. even if u beat it on saturday, it wont forget all the rest of the week that u played with it, fed it etc... thankful and appreciative comes to mind.

What gives us a right to OWN a dog/cat/horse etc...?
because we feed it, paid and pay for it continually, play with it, take it for walks, give it shelter and etc... so we feel we have a right over that animal. correct me if im wrong?
Now if that animal did something wrong, we will sometimes scream at it and we might give it a lil slap and some people go to the extent of seriously hitting and etc... why? because it did not follow OUR orders/rules. - it pays the price for its actions and choices- and we are talking about a creation with almost no intellect compared to ours and thats how we react to it, so imagine if "my dog" had an intellect like mine but still shat on the kitchen table or on my bed. boy i would be seriously pisssseddd to say the least.

now another thing. 
we get married and we produce kids, now every parent has a duty and feels a need and right to enforce some law in his house hold and make rules and regulations for his kids to abide by. (i know kids nowadays think it should be the other way round lol but seriously}. why do parents have a right to set rules and regulations for their kids and why do they give them a slap when they misbehave or shout at them or ground them etc...? same story, we feel that they are OUR kids and we produced them from a piece of OUR sperm and therefore they are kind of a byproduct of us therefore we own them for the first bit of their life at least not to mention that they have inelegance so they should learn and think of the consequence before acting. no matter what u say every single person on earth owes an undeniable and unrepayable price to their parents no matter what, even if their parents left them or they didnt know their parents or what ever, {and if they were really bad parents and if u see them u would want to kick their teeth out u still cannot deny that if it was not for them u would not EXIST. and to me existing in one way is way better than not existing at all.

Now lets keep looking at it from this point of view, do you think that The Creator that created you from NOTHING and made this earth for you to live on, and provided you with every single material you can see on earth and provided you with a body, hands, hearing, soul, sight, speech, brain, heart, emotion etc... etc... etc... Does not have a single right over you? lol i can almost hear those arrogant yes's.

really just look around you where ever u are now, and i guarantee you that you wont find a single thing around you including ur laptop/pc that you have come forth with from nothing or provided uself. if u know of something, let me know? dont worry ill wait? still cant find anything huh.
now dont come and say WE made laptops and not God, and We made buildings not God, and we made this and that. u didnt make F all, u used ur hands that God provided u with to make those and u used ur eyes to determine that and u used ur hearing to be able to do this, and used ur brain to create/design it, with the help of ur tong and voice to coordinate with him and her, not to mention the powerplant{heart} that keeps u ticking. if u built anything in ur life its only because God gave u all the necessary tools+materials to do so not cuz ur some retarded mutation that came by chance all ready and built with all the materials here, ready and waiting by chance.

so let me get this straight, if ur kid is like 15 now, he robs from you, steals things from home, lies to you, hits his mother, is unkind etc... to his brothers n sisters and is so ungrateful towards you, has caused you great pain and emotional stress that u just feel so destroyed after all you provided for him and all the money spent and you worked like a mule to upbring him. would there not come a day when the minimum you would say is, get the hell out of my house and i dont wanna see you again. and thats the minimum as i think i would kick his ass all the way down the road if he even did one of those mentioned.
if u feel thats harsh or that you wouldnt do that then u need to go straight from ur pc to a mental hospital.

So now in my view our Creator which has the power to create us, earth, space, water, animals etc... etc... has the power to punish us when we go wrong especially since he has EVERY SINGLE RIGHT over us, and we will have no power what so ever to stop that punishment if we have earned it, especially since he provided us with so much and all he wants in return is us to worship him and stay away from bad things and be patient for only such a short perioud of time since we live here for 40-70 years and then in heaven for ever? thats like telling ur elder son you love so much to stay home for 15 minutes and dont burn the house down, and you come back to find the house burnt and hes gone. who is to blame? did u force him or did he choose to do so? and thats a retarded and downplayed example which cannot even express an atom of the situation.

people get a little knowledgeable so they feel so arrogant, and when they sit at home in the afternoon having fun and relaxing they feel safe, right up to that drunken moment of death that things and perspectives change extremely quickly.
in my view, we take our money from our hard earned cash for car insurance, house insurance, death insurance etc... and we prepare ourselves everyday for all kinds of things like going out on saturday or going to work on monday, shopping on tusday taking the kids to school in the morning etc... but have we thought about after death insurance? have we thought about preparing for death? uhhh no obviously cuz there is nothing after death right? wt ever u say i say.

Every prophet that came before us, including jesus {pbuh} had the same message and had some sort of proof of god. but people were rebellious as most are today and they loved to live life by what the devil provided so they seeked the material life which not one of us will ever succeed in catching in this life. i believe its our choice to live truths of fallacy.


Earth is the disbelievers heaven and the believers hell we are told.
you live the way God wants you to live in a respectable slightly restricted matter and ur patient you will get whats coming to you.
you live the way the devil wants you to live then you get whats coming to you.
either way one thing is for sure which everyone can agree on, you will get whats coming to you.{death and after}


its alot deeper than that but i wont really bother.
i say this all the time:
you can take a horse to water but cant force him to drink, but in reality you dont need to take a horse anywhere, if he is truly thirsty then you will only find that he will use his instincts/tools that he was provided with in the first place to find it, and even if u throw him in the desert he will keep looking till he either finds it or will die in the search.

in contrast i believe that if a person is sincerely hungry for that knowledge and truth he will find it no matter what. and no its not a product of a human brain to think there is a God so then there is a God, thats such a retarded and misinformed lie. 
no true believer can explain to anyone what he/she has found at the end of the search and thats for a very obvious and straight forward reason which i wont expound on.

my point of view is a muslim point of view by the way.

lol and to the missinformed person that says religions are on the decline, my reply would be your absolutly right except for one religion. 
and if in our age and time and technology and brains if one religion is ploughing through like a rocket on steriods then either there is a brilliant scam or maybe its the truth. though if you like that truth or dont thats a completely different story.

price to pay comes to mind.
This is not intended to fuel dynamite, its a reply to what the topic is about not an argument.


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## dickdasterdly666 (Jul 31, 2010)

oh and one more thing, if i believe in a religion then it has to be perfect, as if there is a god then he must be perfect too. so why would he bring in a religion that is not perfect?
it would have to have truths and would have to be side by side with science in any age and time, and you must be able to question every single aspect of it 24/7 and must have answers which are realistic and not some mumbo jumbo. if i do find one discripancy init then its rubish and a hoax. 
i look forward every single day to anyone that can present me with a claim of a lie or discripancy as it gives me a chance to put the religion to the test and in return will be repaid with even more reassurance. and the otherside that it has to provide has to be something that cannot be explained by words. 

a search for the truth does not take 15 minutes or 1 week, its different between people on how sincere they are in their search and how hard they are looking for it. 

you wouldnt expect to find diamonds or oil in a 15 minute search, but after ur long quest u do find it then the reward will be huge.

so i find it hard to understand how people expect to find the truth in 2-3 youtube videos or what tv says or what Bob claims, since the truth is the most valuble and priceless thing on earth and beyoned then how can it take 15 minutes? no test is easy, not ur university exams nor ur job examinations and definatly not the test that takes you from one extream to the other - hell/heaven.

it cant take 15 mins, it might and probly will be the hardest thing you will look for in ur life, but the repayment is miles away from any hard effort youv made not to mention ur repayment after ur die.


peaceee


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## trichlone fiend (Jul 31, 2010)

[youtube]UF3yb1g30Io[/youtube]


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## dickdasterdly666 (Jul 31, 2010)

lol i think ur post says enuff about u. great reply i would give u loads of point for ur brilliance and intelligent reply, but i havent got any.

thank you about presenting this guy, since he wouldnt be on there in the first place if islam wasnt rocketting upwards and causing panic to people of his likes and the ones who pay him for it.
ur kinda proving wt im saying in a way. great.lol.


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## trichlone fiend (Jul 31, 2010)

dickdasterdly666 said:


> lol i think ur post says enuff about u. great reply i would give u loads of point for ur brilliance and intelligent reply, but i havent got any.
> 
> thank you about presenting this guy, since he wouldnt be on there in the first place if islam wasnt rocketting upwards and causing panic to people of his likes and the ones who pay him for it.
> ur kinda proving wt im saying in a way. great.lol.


 
...ummm, yeah. My post wasn't posted with you "in mind" actually. Your muslim ? Dude, I'd eat a pig's asshole! I love me some swine! ...o'yeah, hasta lama lakum.


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## dickdasterdly666 (Jul 31, 2010)

um sure, great feast on bro, feast on i say.


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## blazin256 (Jul 31, 2010)

what you believe doesn't matter cause its probably the same thing down the road. creationists believe in the beginning there was nothing then god suddenly decided to create some shit. atheists believe that in the beginning there was nothing then some shit collided with some other shit and now we have a whole bunch of other shit. so you see, no matter what we believe, we still come to the same conclusion.....shit happens.


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## rowlman (Jul 31, 2010)

I think that Aliens influenced the Human race. Gods = Aliens. Jesus was an Alien...you might not like it...but thats the way it is. Peace


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 31, 2010)

Dude, I don't mean to single you out, but some of this stuff has to be addressed.

Ill add a bit of salt, pepper n spice to this one,
well basically my belief is that we were all created for a specific reason. period.
we all knew the truth when our souls were created before we were placed on earth and our purpose is to seek knowledge/guidance and look around us and find the truth. and we all agreed before we were born to do just that.
We as humans were given something special that angels were not given, which is freedom of choice, angels are creations of god that are there to worship him and they were never given freedom like us.
anyways the word insane(translated human from arabic) is actually derived from the word ins. which is derived from the word NS{spelt nasa}. which means forget or forgotten.

OK, just remember that's your own personal *belief*, and when it comes to objective fact, individual *beliefs* don't really matter. 

god made humans forget the truth in order to test them to see who will sincerely seek knowledge and guidance and who will denounce him and make mischief on earth etc...

This doesn't seem pointless to you? Sit down and *think* about what you just said for 10 seconds, read it, then think about it... God *made *humans forget the truth in order to test them... Why not just give humans "the truth" from the start so all of God's creations don't need to be tested? 

The whole purpose of Earth and our existence on it is pointless if you're a believer. 

and every single person that ever lived has had a message passed to him about His existence and every single person has thought and thinks about death and about god, the difference is some choose to deny it willingly and some choose to do something about it. some of those who deny it get to a certain point in life where they forget about things and thoughts that have passed them early in life and really do believe they are just smart animals that will only become dust one day and that will be that. and hey if thats what ur on then thats what your on. only one way to find out.... wait for death, and thats something u cant deny.

Well technically you'll be dead right, so you wont be capable of finding anything out at that point... 

We have the freedom of choice and not the freedom of will as some say.
Meaning we can choose to seek the truth and live by gods pure rules or we can live the way we want, at the end everything in life has a price and so do our actions, if u want to buy a ferrari there is a price for it, if u want to dig for diamonds/oil/uranium/gold etc.. there is a price to pay too. if we want to live the way we want to and not give a second thought to anything else then no problem we just have to be ready to pay the price and we will never be ready and by that time it will be too late to change and there will be no escape.

Well, again, that's part of your own personal *belief* system. 

some might think well oh its unfair why would god do something like that and play games with us etc...
its a good question but its one thing asking urself that Q and then answering it urself with limited knowledge and limited sight{im not talking about limited general knowledge}, and its another thing to ask urself that Q and then try and seek a correct answer from other than ur mind and ur best friend.
i mean i can say well why is the ocean blue, then i can come up with a theory saying well its probly cuz there is blue dye somewhere in the water or i ask Bob and he says cuz the fish reflect the sky and leave it at that. or i can go and do my own sincere research and ask people in that field to try and derive the correct answer.

That's something I simply can't accept. Show me some evidence to support this claim. You're claiming "God is above us, beyond us, too much for us to know, too much for us to understand because he's just too complex"... well OK, that might actually be true, who knows? Show me some evidence to support it. You can't just say "this shit is just too complicated to understand, so you just have to take my word for it...", that's the bullshit claim that doesn't go anywhere because that's not how science works. If it's a natural occurrence within our universe, it *can *be studied by modern science, if not it's supernatural which renders it outside the realm of science completely which makes it *useless*. 

So we can test it because it's real or we can't because it's not.

lets put it this way.
you just bought a dog/cat, you put it in a shed in ur backyard, chain it up, bring it food, treat it well, play with it, take it for walks and treat it when its sick. 
it will love you to bits, {unless u were a basted then it might bite ur ass when it gets older lol}. it will protect you with its life, it will serve u in any possible way, it will keep u company and it will never get angry and ask u as to why u kept it in lockup all its life or why u chain it to a post when u go into a shop or why you dont let it into the house or why u sleep inside the house and let it sleep outside{provided that u dont let it enter the house or sleep in ur bed}.
everytime you go away and come back that animal will be soooo happy to see you and smell u and it will be full of joy to see you. y? because it wont forget what you provided and provide it on a daily basis. even if u beat it on saturday, it wont forget all the rest of the week that u played with it, fed it etc... thankful and appreciative comes to mind.

What gives us a right to OWN a dog/cat/horse etc...?

One could seriously argue the point you don't actually *own* it. It's simply a member of the family, like a son or daughter. 

Dairy and poultry farmers might argue that their animals are a piece of property as they're used for certain purposes around the farm. 

It depends on who you ask and how you look at it... 

because we feed it, paid and pay for it continually, play with it, take it for walks, give it shelter and etc... so we *feel* we have a right over that animal. correct me if im wrong?
Now if that animal did something wrong, we will sometimes scream at it and we might give it a lil slap and some people go to the extent of seriously hitting and etc... why? because it did not follow OUR orders/rules. - it pays the price for its actions and choices- and we are talking about a creation with almost no intellect compared to ours and thats how we react to it, so imagine if "my dog" had an intellect like mine but still shat on the kitchen table or on my bed. boy i would be seriously pisssseddd to say the least.

This is a poor analogy because animals are not aware of the extent of reality as humans are. 

now another thing. 
we get married and we produce kids, now every parent has a duty and feels a need and right to enforce some law in his house hold and make rules and regulations for his kids to abide by. (i know kids nowadays think it should be the other way round lol but seriously}. why do parents have a right to set rules and regulations for their kids and why do they give them a slap when they misbehave or shout at them or ground them etc...? same story, we feel that they are OUR kids and we produced them from a piece of OUR sperm and therefore they are kind of a byproduct of us therefore we own them for the first bit of their life at least not to mention that they have inelegance so they should learn and think of the consequence before acting. no matter what u say every single person on earth owes an undeniable and unrepayable price to their parents no matter what, even if their parents left them or they didnt know their parents or what ever, {and if they were really bad parents and if u see them u would want to kick their teeth out u still cannot deny that if it was not for them u would not EXIST. *and to me existing in one way is way better than not existing at all*.

That's probably because you exist without any life debilitating diseases. Go spend some time in the child section of a hospital and you might change your mind. Being born with HIV or sickle cell anemia is an existence many people would rather not even go through.

And some parents are *worthless*. I was lucky enough to have two decent parents but some people aren't that lucky and just because they may have provided the sperm or couldn't keep her legs closed and created a child doesn't mean they should automatically deserve respect. Being a parent is easy, being a mother or a father isn't. 

Now lets keep looking at it from this point of view, do you think that The Creator that created you from NOTHING and made this earth for you to live on, and provided you with every single material you can see on earth and provided you with a body, hands, hearing, soul, sight, speech, brain, heart, emotion etc... etc... etc... Does not have a single right over you? lol i can almost hear those arrogant yes's.

So if I give someone something, that means I have control over them? Likewise, using your previous poor analogy, giving someone shelter or food means I have a right to control them? 

Your logic seems flawed. 

The only person who has control over me is me.
 
really just look around you where ever u are now, and i guarantee you that you wont find a single thing around you including ur laptop/pc that you have come forth with from nothing or provided uself. if u know of something, let me know? dont worry ill wait? still cant find anything huh.

The windex god has provided you with everything you have, go ahead, prove me wrong, I'll wait... 

Talk about arrogant... You leap from a broken foundation and fall short of landing on reality. 

now dont come and say WE made laptops and not God, and We made buildings not God, and we made this and that. u didnt make F all, u used ur hands that God provided u with to make those and u used ur eyes to determine that and u used ur hearing to be able to do this, and used ur brain to create/design it, with the help of ur tong and voice to coordinate with him and her, not to mention the powerplant{heart} that keeps u ticking. if u built anything in ur life its only because God gave u all the necessary tools+materials to do so not cuz ur some retarded mutation that came by chance all ready and built with all the materials here, ready and waiting by chance.

Omg, people with no understanding of evolution should really stop talking about it... 

And* again*, this is all part of your own personal *belief* system, others do not believe the same thing you do...
 
so let me get this straight, if ur kid is like 15 now, he robs from you, steals things from home, lies to you, hits his mother, is unkind etc... to his brothers n sisters and is so ungrateful towards you, has caused you great pain and emotional stress that u just feel so destroyed after all you provided for him and all the money spent and you worked like a mule to upbring him. would there not come a day when the minimum you would say is, get the hell out of my house and i dont wanna see you again. and thats the minimum as i think i would kick his ass all the way down the road if he even did one of those mentioned.
if u feel thats harsh or that you wouldnt do that then u need to go straight from ur pc to a mental hospital.

Yes, abandon your child. Awesome parenting bro. 

So now in my view our Creator which has the power to create us, earth, space, water, animals etc... etc... has the power to punish us when we go wrong especially since he has EVERY SINGLE RIGHT over us, and we will have no power what so ever to stop that punishment if we have earned it, especially since he provided us with so much and all he wants in return is us to worship him and stay away from bad things and be patient for only such a short perioud of time since we live here for 40-70 years and then in heaven for ever? thats like telling ur elder son you love so much to stay home for 15 minutes and dont burn the house down, and you come back to find the house burnt and hes gone. who is to blame? did u force him or did he choose to do so? and thats a retarded and downplayed example which cannot even express an atom of the situation.

If the purpose of existence is to be Gods slave, I'll be smiling in Hell when I kick the bucket. Fuck slavery. Any righteous God would high five me for saying that. 

people get a little knowledgeable so they feel so arrogant, and when they sit at home in the afternoon having fun and relaxing they feel safe, right up to that drunken moment of death that things and perspectives change extremely quickly.
in my view, we take our money from our hard earned cash for car insurance, house insurance, death insurance etc... and we prepare ourselves everyday for all kinds of things like going out on saturday or going to work on monday, shopping on tusday taking the kids to school in the morning etc... but have we thought about after death insurance? have we thought about preparing for death? uhhh no obviously cuz there is nothing after death right? wt ever u say i say.

What evidence do you have that there is anything after death? Show me.

Every prophet that came before us, including jesus {pbuh} had the same message and had some sort of proof of god. but people were rebellious as most are today and they loved to live life by what the devil provided so they seeked the material life which not one of us will ever succeed in catching in this life. i believe its our choice to live truths of fallacy.

What proof? Show me.

Earth is the disbelievers heaven and the believers hell we are told.
you live the way God wants you to live in a respectable *slightly restricted* matter and ur patient you will get whats coming to you.
you live the way the devil wants you to live then you get whats coming to you.
either way one thing is for sure which everyone can agree on, you will get whats coming to you.{death and after}

Slightly restricted? That's a bit of an understatement...

The way the devil wants you to live? aka human nature?
 
its alot deeper than that but i wont really bother.
i say this all the time:
you can take a horse to water but cant force him to drink, but in reality you dont need to take a horse anywhere, if he is truly thirsty then you will only find that he will use his instincts/tools that he was provided with in the first place to find it, and even if u throw him in the desert he will keep looking till he either finds it or will die in the search.

in contrast i believe that if a person is sincerely hungry for that knowledge and truth he will find it no matter what. and no its not a product of a human brain to think there is a God so then there is a God, thats such a retarded and misinformed lie. 
no true believer can explain to anyone what he/she has found at the end of the search and thats for a very obvious and straight forward reason which i wont expound on.

my point of view is a muslim point of view by the way.

lol and to the missinformed person that says religions are on the decline, my reply would be your absolutly right except for one religion. 
and if in our age and time and technology and brains if one religion is ploughing through like a rocket on steriods then either there is a brilliant scam or maybe its the truth. though if you like that truth or dont thats a completely different story.

price to pay comes to mind.
This is not intended to fuel dynamite, its a reply to what the topic is about not an argument.

The only reason Islam is on the rise is because of the control it keeps over it's believers and the threats of death for apostasy, along with the restrictions of freedom of speech and restrictions over the media. If westernized freedom was available in the middle east you'd see a much different picture. That's one of the reasons there is so much tension between western civilization and the middle east, they want to keep people under control, under the cloak of Islam for as long as possible, they're not stupid, they know things like freedom of speech and individualism is a HUGE THREAT to spreading Islam and their message of domination and control, so they stifle it, at every possible opportunity, and fail miserably just about every time. 

You join my cult and I tell you you can't leave without being killed, ya, you'll probably stay too!


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## rowlman (Jul 31, 2010)

........................


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## The Potologist (Jul 31, 2010)

I believe I am a martian on thursdays and a Wild Bengal on Sunday  Any day other than those two I am just a Turkey playing Turkey Tunes for The Townsends  



Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## dickdasterdly666 (Jul 31, 2010)

oh boy heres that drama.

lol, first of bro uv reminded me a few times that "its my own belief", im not sure why u did that a few times, as i know its *"my own belief"*
i thought i was pretty clear to mention it a few times, maybe i should have put a disclamer?
This doesn't seem pointless to you? Sit down and *think* about what you just said for 10 seconds, read it, then think about it... God *made *humans forget the truth in order to test them... Why not just give humans "the truth" from the start so all of God's creations don't need to be tested? 

The whole purpose of Earth and our existence on it is pointless if you're a believer. 
um im not sure how ur looking at it, but since im claiming there is a god i dont think we have a say in why and how we should be treated or tested since we didnt exist before that and we are not in control of the situation, i wouldnt expect ur or my retarded limited capacity and general retardation to be able to think and comprehend why and when and how. i mean seriously if ur trying to match ur thinking with a being so powerful as to create us and the whole universe around us, then i think uv watched way too much discovery channel.
and im not sure what ur idea of God is but i think the image u reflect is some kind of a stupid being that is proper clumsy and does things for no reason. NOT WHO IM TALKING ABOUT.
Well technically you'll be dead right, so you wont be capable of finding anything out at that point
No, thats your view, u seem a bit confused. you see while you dont think there is anything after death thats you, i on the other hand believe otherwise, and ur life for eternity will only start when u die. {it might not make sence to you i know}
I also believe in the punishment of the grave, where every soul will be questioned. {oh dear, sounds like a bad dearm n pretty out there}
That's something I simply can't accept. Show me some evidence to support this claim. You're claiming "God is above us, beyond us, too much for us to know, too much for us to understand because he's just too complex"... well OK, that might actually be true, who knows? Show me some evidence to support it. You can't just say "this shit is just too complicated to understand, so you just have to take my word for it...", that's the bullshit claim that doesn't go anywhere because that's not how science works. If it's a natural occurrence within our universe, it *can *be studied by modern science, if not it's supernatural which renders it outside the realm of science completely which makes it *useless*
lol first of all where did i ask you to accept anything? second of all i dont need to show u any evidence, its not my job.{ref. to the story of the horse and try and understand the meaning since ur smart enough}. Finally i appreciate ur point of view, maybe u should try posting it in a seperate full post?

"this shit is just too complicated to understand, so you just have to take my word for it"
can u show me where u quoted that from? im sorry i couldnt find it in my post, u must be seeing things.{im waiting for copy paste}
incase you have a difficulty decyphering my text, "MY POINT OF VIEW"
One could seriously argue the point you don't actually *own* it. It's simply a member of the family, like a son or daughter. 
son or daugter lol. i mean are u serious. do you put ur kids in a cage? do you put a collar on them when u go out?
iv owned a lot of animals in the past, and we usually use that in a figure of speech type of way not literally.

Dairy and poultry farmers might argue that their animals are a piece of property as they're used for certain purposes around the farm. 
owww thats brilliant really, {Fill in the blank: Farmers ___W___ animals as pieces of property to make money, they slaughters them too etc...}
It depends on who you ask and how you look at it... 
I didnt ask anyone and thats how "I look at it" for the 10th time.
This is a poor analogy because animals are not aware of the extent of reality as humans are.
which makes you a human and not an animal. special might come to mind. so your clearly saying you agree that you have the capacity to comprehend things on another level than an animal, which in turn means you have the capacity to figure truth from false and you can realise when you do things sincerly or only act as if your being sincer. it basically means that if uv been given those tools then your able to choose to use them wisely and correctly or not. 
(which means ur writing ur will in ur own hands and choosing your own way, if ur right about things your saved, if your wrong{OUCH}. *{in my own view})*
That's probably because you exist without any life debilitating diseases. Go spend some time in the child section of a hospital and you might change your mind. Being born with HIV or sickle cell anemia is an existence many people would rather not even go through.
first of all dont worry iv seen my share of hospitals thx for the tour. there you go again with ur invalid view of God and judging with ur extensive NOT judgment skills.
And some parents are *worthless*. I was lucky enough to have two decent parents but some people aren't that lucky and just because they may have provided the sperm or couldn't keep her legs closed and created a child doesn't mean they should automatically deserve respect. Being a parent is easy, being a mother or a father isn't. 
*HAHA. *your unreal, really go back to the post and copy and paste where i said. "they should automatically deserve respect".{ill be waiting for a copy paste of that too}
So if *I* give someone something, that means *I* have control over them? Likewise, using your previous poor analogy, giving someone shelter or food means *I*have a right to control them? 
This is interesting, U are not a creator, U have control over nothing, not even ur blood pressure, U have not created any earths or universes or hells or heavens or any living creature on earth, not even a fly, and you certainlly have not givin anyone life. throw ur ass in a high goverment seat and ur tone will change.
The windex god has provided you with everything you have, go ahead, prove me wrong, I'll wait... 
lol i have no clue what a windex god is, and i dont need to prove anything to you. ur like a lil kid. ohhhh did my post annoy you?
If the purpose of existence is to be Gods slave, I'll be smiling in Hell when I kick the bucket. Fuck slavery. Any righteous God would high five me for saying that. lol okidoki tough guy.
you keep asking me to show you this and that, lol what a guy. for the last time, I DONT NEED TO SHOW YOU ANYTHING, you believe your right then right on sunshine  no problem here.
the next 2 things you said are pretty retarded so im not even gona bother replying.
Ill end you with this.
The only reason Islam is on the rise is because of the control it keeps over it's believers and the threats of death for apostasy, along with the restrictions of freedom of speech and restrictions over the media.If westernized freedom was available in the middle east you'd see a much different picture. That's one of the reasons there is so much tension between western civilization and the middle east, they want to keep people under control, under the cloak of Islam for as long as possible, they're not stupid, they know things like freedom of speech and individualism is a HUGE THREAT to spreading Islam and their message of domination and control, so they stifle it, at every possible opportunity, and fail miserably just about every time. 

You join my cult and I tell you you can't leave without being killed, ya, you'll probably stay too! 

thank you for your information on "the only reason islam is on the rise". first of all you chat rubbish and uv exposed yourself enough till now.
falsehood will always fail and be exposed infront of rightousness. {thats my point of view and the truth now and always}
boy you had to go and embarras yourself like this, some of you guys jus keep cumin for more dont you and you defo dont learn.
First of all this is your link to your thread that you started on 07-20-2010 02:58 PM:{11 days ago}
https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/350521-organized-religion-rise-fall.html
This is the 1st post that you made, i do encourage everyone to follow the thread and read it, its only 2 pages.
*{topic: Is organized religion on the rise or fall?}*
"*IMO, it's definitely on the fall*. With the surge in atheism and disbelief in the United States over the past 15-20 years, we've reached 14% of the population last time I checked. *This has led to PANIC in religious circles! They don't know what the hell to do*! Like I've said before, back in the day they could just kill you and that would be that, but now with western societies laws *they have to sit there and take all the scientific bitch slaps!* When they stand up and oppose it now, they have to come with more than just death threats, and the more they oppose it, the dumber they look! Case in point";
Clearly from your post you had 0 knowledge about islam, and were very cocky in ur speech thinking ur the guy with the jokes.
this was my 1st post:
actually da only religion that is blooming at a phenominal rate is Islam. especially in western countries and there is nothing from science that has contradicted it {so far}, on the contrary, actually its side by side with modern science. and because its on the rise in that manner it means its a threat to alot of governments etc... which is why we have the war on terror{or more accurately The War on Islam}.
and funny enough 60-70% of converts to Islam from western countries are women. {so much for the fairy tale of Islam mistreating women}. 
Then you gave a reply and i replied to your whole post and its this below: {*bold is my reply}*
I appreciate your opinion, but I think you're mistaken about a few things. 

Nothing from modern science that contradicts Islam? *nop - nothing* 

I've never read the Quran before but that can't be a true statement. Why isn't the whole world Muslim if that's the case? 
*why cant it be? Muslims "claim" that the Holy Quran is a perfect book from "God", and further more The Quran goes furthur on with a challenge to mankind.*
*and i would love to explain to you why the whole world isnt Muslim but i think its self explanatory if u just give it a lil push n try n figure it out. *

You're saying everything inside the Quran and Islam is scientifically accurate? *Yup and even more so than accurate.* {pretty bold statement i know}

The "War on Terror" is all about $$$, fueled by animosity both organized religions provide, Christianity and Islam. 
*Its way deeper than what you think you see, its never face value.*

I'd like a source for your 60%-70% statistic about converts to Islam. That honestly doesn't sound accurate at all.
*lol i dnt need to provide u with Islamic sources as they "obviouslly FAKE"*, *so just watch some CNN, MBC, etc... its all on there.*
*and im not sure where u live, but were i am you don't need a report to see the spread, Churches are closing down and Mosques are being built, and on Fridays you cant even cross the streets and most of the faces are White's, African's, Asians etc... u don't even see the Pakistanis or Arabs anymore its all foreign converts. *

Doesn't "Islam" mean "submit"?
*Islam is "the one who submits to Gods/will" *

Have you ever heard of Theo van Gogh?
*Yes and really i have no reply, im not sure why it was presented anyway.*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_va...lm_director) 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
then i replied again and thought id provide you with "Sources for my Statistics":
here ill help you out.
*NBC TV- CONVERTS TO ISLAM IN USA 2010.*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcRTo...eature=related
*CNN TV Report. *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFGjC...eature=related
*CNN WOMAN CONVERTED TO ISLAM AFTER HER CAPTURE BY TALIBAN*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBDJQ...eature=related
either people are crazy, or others arnt reading between the lines.
*either way everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.* *that was just my opinion on the topic thats all*, not trying to stir anything up. 
----------------------------------------------------
after that, the other guy jumped in to help you out but poor him he got a little toasted and retreated with no reply till now especially since iv seen him online loads. all that time you had gone quiet after my posts and had no idea what to say, since my last 2 posts on 07-27-2010 07:29 AM. your last cocky post to me was on the 07-21-2010 03:44 PM then you went on hush mode til now{11}days later.
===============================
back to that last post of yours:
If westernized freedom was available in the middle east you'd see a much different picture. That's one of the reasons there is so much tension between western civilization and the middle east, they want to keep people under control, under the cloak of Islam for as long as possible, they're not stupid, they know things like freedom of speech and individualism is a HUGE THREAT to spreading Islam and their message of domination and control, so they stifle it, at every possible opportunity, and fail miserably just about every time. 
*So 11 days ago you were a complete retard on the subject, now all of a sudden you bust out lines like HUGE THREAT and fail miserably and talk like you know it all and ur expert number one????*
*now lets get back to your first post*
Dude, I don't mean to single you out, but some of this stuff has to be addressed.
*let me reword that more apropriately DUDE:*
*Dude, I mean to single you out, because you kinda like shut me up on my own thread and shut another guy up in the process n killed the thread and im pretty islamophobic too, so i thought ill be smart and try and get you back on this thread. i dont know what im talking about and have 0 knowledge so im going to use my lieing and fake experties profile to get you. "SMART MODE ON"*
*Later:*
*Damn that muslim, he got me again.grrr...*
*Maybe i should have thought it through before i started typing. since i claim that i have controle over me, then i should be able to try and think with my brain the next time before i reply.*

You join my cult and I tell you you can't leave without being killed, ya, you'll probably stay too! 
really you should go on holiday or do something more interesting with ur time than talk rubbish and lie.

YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE FROM ALL MY POSTS I REPECT OTHER POINTS OF VIEWS AND DO NOT ASK OR TELL ANYONE TO BELIEVE IN MINE. SO STOP TRYING TO PUT IT ACROSS IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

peaceee.


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 31, 2010)

I believe we should empty our minds of any negativity here. If there are inadequacies in your belief system, think them through. Most of our thoughts flow around the same idea, but we all express our thoughts differently. What can most of us agree on here?


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## blazin256 (Aug 1, 2010)

here's somethin we can all agree on....who cares how we got here, we got the sticky green weed and thats all we need.


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## likalotapus11 (Aug 1, 2010)

i believe that when i hit the submit reply it will be my 50th post..thanks for the airtime..off to work


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## dickdasterdly666 (Aug 1, 2010)

no negativity here, i wrote my point of view, i made sure i made it clear that it was my own point of view and that im not starting an argument or debate and i even did that in his thread and made it clear. i didnt not threaten or ask ny1 to believe in what i do, but some want to make attacks for no valid reason.
and even worse present information which is rubbish especially when they know that they have no knowledge about the sub...
i have no problem with the guy, i just showed him what he had done so he can notice his actions before jumping in the wrong manner the next time, since he says he has control over himself.


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## dickdasterdly666 (Aug 1, 2010)

blazin256 said:


> here's somethin we can all agree on....who cares how we got here, we got the sticky green weed and thats all we need.


lol im not sure we can all agree on that , i for 1 care how we got here, because if i dont care then i risk being pretty ignorant about life, since i look in the mirror everyday and realise that this is no joke and i am really alive and living in this body and this whole world and universe is around me, meaning i risk being thrown in hell for being stuckup, ungreatful, against my Creator, arrogant and missleading my own self.{considering my own point of view that there is a Creator}. 
iv survived death 1 too many times for me to say i was lucky and stay on my old arrogant path, all i can say is thank God i woke up. there is luck and there is something else.

the only thing that every person here can agree on is that we allllllll have a one way ticket to death.

sticky does fit in somewhere tho


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## skiweeds (Aug 1, 2010)

im a christian but i dont practice it. im not like one of them fucking jesus freak bible humpers. i just believe in god or basically think that there is a higher power that created us all and the universe. i could see someone labeling me more as agnostic. i know there is no real proof of gods existance. but i guess thats why they call it faith. i believe in doing good for people, at least if they are good ppl themselves. i dont think im better than any non christians. i have athiest friends, some intelligent, some not. its all good, life is good, no matter what you are, enjoy it!

also i know religeon has caused a lot of bad things, you know, spanish inquisition, terrorism, molested children. but it has a lot of good as well. if its the right place, it's a great influence for kids and will help teach them to do the right thing. the only problem is, there are so many different religeons out there, which is the right one?


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## dickdasterdly666 (Aug 1, 2010)

hey ski i pm'd u but im not sure it went thru, did it?


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## scorpio9 (Aug 1, 2010)

blazin256 said:


> here's somethin we can all agree on....who cares how we got here, we got the sticky green weed and thats all we need.


And it's mentioned in the bible lol, got shown once


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## Padawanbater2 (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm cutting this shit down to size man, nobody wants to read a full post of nothing but text. If you reply back, do the same thing, make it easier for people to read. 



> lol, first of bro uv reminded me a few times that "its my own belief", im not sure why u did that a few times, as i know its *"my own belief"*
> 
> um im not sure how ur looking at it, but since im claiming there is a god i dont think we have a say in why and how we should be treated or tested since we didnt exist before that and we are not in control of the situation, i wouldnt expect ur or my retarded limited capacity and general retardation to be able to think and comprehend why and when and how. i mean seriously if ur trying to match ur thinking with a being so powerful as to create us and the whole universe around us, then i think uv watched way too much discovery channel.


That's why I reiterated it's only *your belief* 3 or 4 times last post, because none of that *matters to anyone but you* (and other Muslims). 

"i dont think we have a say in why and how we should be treated or tested"

Exactly, because no matter what, God is always right. Even when he's wrong he's right because he's God. Huge fallacy within organized religion, you don't fit reality with what God says, you fit what God says with reality, and if it doesn't fit into place then what God said is probably wrong, how could a perfect being be wrong?... exactly.



> and im not sure what ur idea of God is but i think the image u reflect is some kind of a stupid being that is proper clumsy and does things for no reason. NOT WHO IM TALKING ABOUT.


The God believers describe to exist is impossible. Describe yours and I'll prove it to you. There are too many paradox's that must be answered that you and all the other believers don't spend any time thinking about. Go read some Epicurus or Plato and check em out. 



> lol first of all where did i ask you to accept anything? second of all i dont need to show u any evidence, its not my job.{ref. to the story of the horse and try and understand the meaning since ur smart enough}. Finally i appreciate ur point of view, maybe u should try posting it in a seperate full post?


You just told me in your previous post that as humans, we can't expect to be able to understand God, his will or the way he operates, nothing, he's just too beyond our understanding. 

"its a good question but its one thing asking urself that Q and then *answering it urself with limited knowledge and limited sight*{im not talking about limited general knowledge}"

You are saying we don't have the knowledge to answer why a god would design the entire system this way because God's reasoning is too advanced for us to understand. I'm saying, show me some proof of that claim, you made the claim, so show me what makes you believe it. That sounds like a reasonable request to me...



> "this shit is just too complicated to understand, so you just have to take my word for it"
> can u show me where u quoted that from? im sorry i couldnt find it in my post, u must be seeing things.{im waiting for copy paste}
> incase you have a difficulty decyphering my text, "MY POINT OF VIEW"


Check the previous quote ^



> son or daugter lol. i mean are u serious. do you put ur kids in a cage? do you put a collar on them when u go out?
> iv owned a lot of animals in the past, and we usually use that in a figure of speech type of way not literally.


I don't put my pets in a cage, and humans have names, ID cards and verification papers to identify who they are, they don't require a collar or name tag. 



> owww thats brilliant really, {Fill in the blank: Farmers ___W___ animals as pieces of property to make money, they slaughters them too etc...}


That analogy didn't work from the beginning, try this one...

Your argument was that God created us so he has total control over us. 

"has the power to punish us when we go wrong especially since he has EVERY SINGLE RIGHT over us"

But then when turned around and used realistically, if I created a child with a woman would I then have complete control over what he does, who he talks to and all other aspects of his life till he dies? Why not? I created him.

Because it's not *right* to control someone. It's not right for any god to control someone. Why would God do something that's not right? IT WOULDN'T! 

Think about it. 



> which makes you a human and not an animal.


Couldn't be more incorrect. Humans *are* animals.



> special might come to mind. so your clearly saying you agree that you have the capacity to comprehend things on another level than an animal, which in turn means you have the capacity to figure truth from false and you can realise when you do things sincerly or only act as if your being sincer. it basically means that if uv been given those tools then your able to choose to use them wisely and correctly or not.


Yes, humans are more intelligent than other animals, but that doesn't say shit about figuring out the truth from what's false. Humans fuck that up ALL THE TIME. 

So what you're saying is God gave us faulty tools that distort reality on occasion and expected us to discern what's morally right and wrong in a 60-70 year time span for our entrance into heaven? 



> *HAHA. *your unreal, really go back to the post and copy and paste where i said. "they should automatically deserve respect".{ill be waiting for a copy paste of that too}


"no matter what u say every single person on earth owes an undeniable and unrepayable price to their parents no matter what, even if their parents left them or they didnt know their parents or what ever"

You'll probably take the low road and argue semantics, but there ya go skippy. 



> This is interesting, U are not a creator, U have control over nothing, not even ur blood pressure, U have not created any earths or universes or hells or heavens or any living creature on earth, not even a fly, and you certainlly have not givin anyone life. throw ur ass in a high goverment seat and ur tone will change.


Neither has your god. Show me some proof that a god, any god created anything, at all. How is your claim any different than my claim? 



> lol i have no clue what a windex god is, and i dont need to prove anything to you. ur like a lil kid. ohhhh did my post annoy you?


Hopefully you learn some day that you don't prove things exist by asking "prove me wrong", dingbat. That's not the way reality works. 



> thank you for your information on "the only reason islam is on the rise". first of all you chat rubbish and uv exposed yourself enough till now.


Exposed myself have I?! 



> falsehood will always fail and be exposed infront of rightousness. {thats my point of view and the truth now and always}


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

Guess you're right  we're at 15% right now buddy, and on the rise!  Lock up your daughters!  (sorry I got a little emoticon happy! lol)



> after that, the other guy jumped in to help you out but poor him he got a little toasted and retreated with no reply till now especially since iv seen him online loads.


*"and were very cocky in ur speech thinking ur the guy with the jokes."*

Sometimes replies from people are just too stupid to waste more time on, you understand.



> all that time you had gone quiet after my posts and had no idea what to say, since my last 2 posts on 07-27-2010 07:29 AM. your last cocky post to me was on the 07-21-2010 03:44 PM then you went on hush mode til now{11}days later.


Well contrary to what you may believe, my RIU viewing doesn't revolve around what mr. dickdasterdly666 has to say... You got something to say to me personally, send me a PM



> back to that last post of yours:
> If westernized freedom was available in the middle east you'd see a much different picture. That's one of the reasons there is so much tension between western civilization and the middle east, they want to keep people under control, under the cloak of Islam for as long as possible, they're not stupid, they know things like freedom of speech and individualism is a HUGE THREAT to spreading Islam and their message of domination and control, so they stifle it, at every possible opportunity, and fail miserably just about every time.
> 
> *So 11 days ago you were a complete retard on the subject, now all of a sudden you bust out lines like HUGE THREAT and fail miserably and talk like you know it all and ur expert number one????*


Sure... if you say so?



> *now lets get back to your first post*
> Dude, I don't mean to single you out, but some of this stuff has to be addressed.
> *let me reword that more apropriately DUDE:*
> *Dude, I mean to single you out, because you kinda like shut me up on my own thread and shut another guy up in the process n killed the thread and im pretty islamophobic too, so i thought ill be smart and try and get you back on this thread. i dont know what im talking about and have 0 knowledge so im going to use my lieing and fake experties profile to get you. "SMART MODE ON"*
> ...


lol... that's some interesting inner-monologue you've got going on there... 

You didn't shut shit down, you're making outrageous claims that *nobody takes seriously*, except religious fanatics. That's the reason I didn't respond to any of your bullshit, you're not wasting any more of my time than I let you.


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## The Potologist (Aug 1, 2010)

Anybody care to join me NOW on being a martian on tuesdays and a wild bengal on thursdays. All other days I believe I am just a Turkey playing Turkey Tunes for the Townsends??? Seems alot better than figuring all the religious shit out...my fuckin head is a spinning in confusion.,...I think I will be a bongian...i just believe in the power of my packed bong 

EVERYBODY JUST BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL...At the end of the day..none of it matters. Until your dead  Thats when all this hokus pokus shit MAY matter. So for now...Just do you homie....do you  No need to convert. 

Peace, Love, and happiness


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## Padawanbater2 (Aug 1, 2010)

I wish it was that easy potologist... the problem with that is that it all does very much matter while we're still alive because religious fanatics are blowing people up every single day because of their religion and people are being denied equal opportunities and equal rights because of their religion.


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## The Potologist (Aug 1, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I wish it was that easy potologist... the problem with that is that it all does very much matter while we're still alive because religious fanatics are blowing people up every single day because of their religion and people are being denied equal opportunities and equal rights because of their religion.


Well brotha! The whole blowing them selves up is an EFFECT of religion. Religion in its principles are not applicable till death. Sadly, and mostly based on ignorrance...extremist seem to think RELIGION matters RIGHT NOW....but in most religion...none of it matters till death...Its cool we can be civilized and have a debate...but I think really...when it comes to debating religion...it just seems like such a pointless battle. Let those who wish to believe ...believe...and those who dont should not have to deal with those seeking to convert people all in the name sake of a "god" they havent met yet  

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## dickdasterdly666 (Aug 1, 2010)

thats sweet, but really that was a toothless and poor comeback to the point that i didnt even read your post properly, i just checked the first 2 answers and last and summed it up and really you can just stare at that and think "huh okkk"
lol do you comprehend english? i mean i know i have some spelling mistakes here n there but i understand what i write, tho i dont think you do.
pay attention to the following:
me:
lol, first of bro uv reminded me a few times that "its my own belief", im not sure why u did that a few times, as i know its *"my own belief"*
to furthur explain to you that i KNOW its my own belief and didnt need you to tell me 3-4 times, since your old post till now iv been saying it over and over and over: its my own belief, everyone to their own, thats just me, my own belief, i believe, thats what i think etc...
and now your comming back with the below?lol
That's why I reiterated it's only *your belief* 3 or 4 times last post, because none of that *matters to anyone but you* (and other Muslims). 
And you figured that out all by yourself with no hints from my post? what a smart guy. lol you really shouldnt have replied to this part and just dodged it, it would have saved you looking like a toothless boxer. {*thats my own belief*}lol just incase.


Exactly, because no matter what, God is always right. Even when he's wrong he's right because he's God. Huge fallacy within organized religion, you don't fit reality with what God says, you fit what God says with reality, and if it doesn't fit into place then what God said is probably wrong, how could a perfect being be wrong?... exactly.
lol, loool, looooool.
really please i beg you read the above and seriously think about what your saying, u must feel so full of yourself to the point that you are using your retarded human judgment of right and wrong and puting urself in the place of a being that created you and the whole universe and dictating what is right and wrong? Albert Einstien tried to do know what god thinks and was like a flee on earth. but im sure your brain is way past him and you already know the whole picture and have figured out the rights and wrongs.
lol u even said probably, i thought u were a 100% on the matter? if there is a creator then your a primary retard to be arrogant enough to try and encompass his train of thought, instead try to use your LIMITED intelect to try and find out what you can of new information. dont be a jahil all ur life. lol try n figure out what that word is.


skip to last post:
If westernized freedom was available in the middle east you'd see a much different picture. That's one of the reasons there is so much tension between western civilization and the middle east, they want to keep people under control, under the cloak of Islam for as long as possible, they're not stupid, they know things like freedom of speech and individualism is a HUGE THREAT to spreading Islam and their message of domination and control, so they stifle it, at every possible opportunity, and fail miserably just about every time. 

*So 11 days ago you were a complete retard on the subject, now all of a sudden you bust out lines like HUGE THREAT and fail miserably and talk like you know it all and ur expert number one????* 

your new reply: 
Sure... if you say so?

lol really just look at that, sounded like tweety bird coughed and flew out the window acting as if gandma didnt notice.
classic reply.

you know what if you had studied religions including Christianity, Juda, and Islam and were debating me on knowledge then i might repect your view, but when ur talking from your rear its kinda hard to understand what your trying to say.{cuz ur not sayin anything at all}

i dont waste my time on little kids that keep crying for a lollipop. so go look for an argument somewhere else sunny.


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## dickdasterdly666 (Aug 1, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I wish it was that easy potologist... the problem with that is that it all does very much matter while we're still alive because religious fanatics are blowing people up every single day because of their religion and people are being denied equal opportunities and equal rights because of their religion.


here it is again, the expert that has been in the field for 11 days, that has spent 1-2 hours during that time reading some retarded magazine, youtube vid or some ebay report is giving us the live true feed.
wow really what your saying is spot on, really you should be awarded the best reporter on earth.

how many years have you spent living in the middle east for? im sorry what did you say? 0
how many years have you spent studying religions? 0
what do you know about why people are blowing themselves up? 0
where did you get your really acurate information from? ur behind. 

you must have been that kid at school that acted like he knew it all and lied all the time, but everyone new about it. actually ur still that kid. {and i know about it.}


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## dickdasterdly666 (Aug 1, 2010)

The Potologist said:


> Anybody care to join me NOW on being a martian on tuesdays and a wild bengal on thursdays. All other days I believe I am just a Turkey playing Turkey Tunes for the Townsends??? Seems alot better than figuring all the religious shit out...my fuckin head is a spinning in confusion.,...I think I will be a bongian...i just believe in the power of my packed bong
> 
> EVERYBODY JUST BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL...At the end of the day..none of it matters. Until your dead  Thats when all this hokus pokus shit MAY matter. So for now...Just do you homie....do you  No need to convert.
> 
> Peace, Love, and happiness


bro really, im not trying to figure anything out as iv done that thank you, im not trying to shine the light and do the converting business or none of that either, my 5 year old neighbours son can figure out from my posts that im *TALKING ABOUT MY POINT OF VIEW*, that im *NOT ASKING FOR ANYONE TO BELIEVE WHAT I DO* and that i *RESPECT OTHER POINTS OF VIEWS* since iv litterally included these and more in my posts

though its amazing how some people dont get that, lol if they cant understand simple english then how can they understand God or the purpose of life or anything else for that matter.{they cant and its obvious}


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## dickdasterdly666 (Aug 1, 2010)

The Potologist said:


> Well brotha! The whole blowing them selves up is an EFFECT of religion. Religion in its principles are not applicable till death. Sadly, and mostly based on ignorrance...extremist seem to think RELIGION matters RIGHT NOW....but in most religion...none of it matters till death...Its cool we can be civilized and have a debate...but I think really...when it comes to debating religion...it just seems like such a pointless battle. Let those who wish to believe ...believe...and those who dont should not have to deal with those seeking to convert people all in the name sake of a "god" they havent met yet
> 
> Peace, Love, and Happiness


Sorry but ur information is way below up to date and based on nothing but heresay, and im not sure if ur talking about me seeking to convert people, since no where have i mentioned anything of that sort anywhere ever in the 127 posts that iv writen. unless your reading Dudes posts then i admit you can find it all in there. lol.


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## Padawanbater2 (Aug 1, 2010)

dickdasterdly666 said:


> i didnt even read your post properly


Yeah, because you *can't *respond to any of the points I made. Admit it, if you could you would have without any complaints.

And yeah, it's your *belief* but you're sitting here making claims of* fact* based on the foundation of Islam, which *isn't fact*. 

We already know what you believe, it's your job to defend it with logic and reason, not retell it over and over again claiming "this is only *my *belief", because you wouldn't be in here talking about it for only that reason, and you admitted as much in the last post. So what's the point?
 

Come back with something of substance and it might warrant a better reply. 

And drop the arrogant tone in your posts, is that necessary?


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## The Potologist (Aug 1, 2010)

dickdasterdly666 said:


> Sorry but ur information is way below up to date and based on nothing but heresay, and im not sure if ur talking about me seeking to convert people, since no where have i mentioned anything of that sort anywhere ever in the 127 posts that iv writen. unless your reading Dudes posts then i admit you can find it all in there. lol.


DAMMMMNNN SOOOONNNN HERE take this BONG ...Hit that shit till ya fall asleep. When ya wake up , maybe then we can make some progress. Never EVER SAID YOU SPECIFICALLY were trying to convert ANYONE. I just wish to STOP PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO....NEVER meant any of that directed at you...So please, chill brotha! I got nothing but one love!!! 

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## Padawanbater2 (Aug 1, 2010)

dickdasterdly666 said:


> here it is again, the expert that has been in the field for 11 days, that has spent 1-2 hours during that time reading some retarded magazine, youtube vid or some ebay report is giving us the live true feed.
> wow really what your saying is spot on, really you should be awarded the best reporter on earth.
> 
> how many years have you spent living in the middle east for? im sorry what did you say? 0
> ...



Never been to the middle east, but guess what, I live in America where we enjoy this device called the internet that enables me to actually look up the shit I'm interested in, which would include, wouldn't ya know it! Middle eastern affairs, world politics, history, religion, etc.

I've spent 4 years studying religions, mostly Christianity, but I've also touched on Judaism, Islam, a little bit of Buddhism and a little bit of Hinduism. 

How bout you tell me why you _think_ Muslim extremists are blowing themselves up, lets start there...


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## Padawanbater2 (Aug 1, 2010)

The Potologist said:


> Well brotha! The whole blowing them selves up is an EFFECT of religion. Religion in its principles are not applicable till death. Sadly, and mostly based on ignorrance...extremist seem to think RELIGION matters RIGHT NOW....but in most religion...none of it matters till death...Its cool we can be civilized and have a debate...but I think really...when it comes to debating religion...it just seems like such a pointless battle. Let those who wish to believe ...believe...and those who dont should not have to deal with those seeking to convert people all in the name sake of a "god" they havent met yet
> 
> Peace, Love, and Happiness



Dude, I think your positive attitude is seepin' through the net lol it's infecting me!

Why argue about it right? Thanks for your posts man, changed my mood completely around.


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## The Potologist (Aug 1, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Dude, I think your positive attitude is seepin' through the net lol it's infecting me!
> 
> Why argue about it right? Thanks for your posts man, changed my mood completely around.


Hey Hey that bong does work after all  Thanks for the kind words brotha  I try to always demonstrate what I believe in the most PEACE< LOVE< AND HAPPINESS  Bongs to you !


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## BudMcLovin (Aug 1, 2010)

The Potologist said:


> Religion in its principles are not applicable till death.


I think while the ultimate goal is not achieved until death, religion provides philosophies, principles, and rules for people to live by become a better person because of those philosophies, etc. But it is also a way for people to manipulate and control others. Religion brings people together and divides them. Or is it the individual hubris and bull headedness doing the dividing and not religions. A lot of people focus too much on what divides instead of the uniting factors. It&#8217;s like Bruce Lee said in Enter the Dragon: It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don&#8217;t concentrate on the finger or you&#8217;ll miss all that heavenly glory&#8221;

[video=youtube;2d5o8d1kitM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d5o8d1kitM[/video]


The Potologist said:


> when it comes to debating religion...it just seems like such a pointless battle.


 The pointless battle is debating with those who agree with you. I mean in most cases no one changes their mind but hopefully each side has a better understanding of themselves and the other side.


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## undertheice (Aug 1, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I wish it was that easy potologist... the problem with that is that it all does very much matter while we're still alive because religious fanatics are blowing people up every single day because of their religion and people are being denied equal opportunities and equal rights because of their religion.


let's see now. it seems people are being blown up over money, land, power, ideological differences and a host of other equally nonsensical reasons. our opportunities and rights are being denied because of political opportunism, differing appearance, alternative attitudes and a raft of other petty excuses. what is it about religion, among all of man's other endeavors, that makes it so deserving of your scorn?


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## Padawanbater2 (Aug 1, 2010)

undertheice said:


> let's see now. it seems people are being blown up over money, land, power, ideological differences and a host of other equally nonsensical reasons. our opportunities and rights are being denied because of political opportunism, differing appearance, alternative attitudes and a raft of other petty excuses. what is it about religion, among all of man's other endeavors, that makes it so deserving of your scorn?


It's false hope, it sells a faulty product to people who are too naive, gullible, emotional, or weak to see it for what it actually is. It demands things that go against equality, freedom and human nature. It holds humanity back in countless different ways, it divides cultures..

I could go on, but you get the point right?


Most other modern issues seem to stem directly or indirectly from organized religion.


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## The Potologist (Aug 1, 2010)

BudMcLovin said:


> I think while the ultimate goal is not achieved until death, religion provides philosophies, principles, and rules for people to live by become a better person because of those philosophies, etc. But it is also a way for people to manipulate and control others. Religion brings people together and divides them. Or is it the individual hubris and bull headedness doing the dividing and not religions. A lot of people focus too much on what divides instead of the uniting factors. It&#8217;s like Bruce Lee said in Enter the Dragon: It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don&#8217;t concentrate on the finger or you&#8217;ll miss all that heavenly glory&#8221;
> 
> Great points! I still stand with my side  While religion may provide what you stated, I think LIFE is a one shot deal. I got one to live...thats it. I have no interest in wasting it on religion  Just a personal choice.
> 
> ...


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## The Potologist (Aug 1, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> It's false hope, it sells a faulty product to people who are too naive, gullible, emotional, or weak to see it for what it actually is. It demands things that go against equality, freedom and human nature. It holds humanity back in countless different ways, it divides cultures..
> 
> I could go on, but you get the point right?
> 
> ...


Great points, all which are FACTS. Although, I tend to believe that the religious tend to ignore the obvious for their own selfish interest in still being "accepted" in whatever religious cult. Nobody wants to lose their chance at heaven ya know man...HEY, which way is heaven by the way...have u been there???? I havent...when can I get a tour...should I just call?? I mean its real right...or should I just have faith and it appears??? FUck this is so confusing...I want to get there...maybe I will go see a deacon..IM SURE HEEE WILL LEAD ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTIOn....AHAHAHAHAH AHAHHAHAAHAH ( really evil laugh) AHAHAHAHHAHAHA


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## dickdasterdly666 (Aug 1, 2010)

First off, this is my last reply to you as if u think that ur smart,cunning and able to duck behind your replies your wrong.those following might not notice this and that, but i do and your not fooling anyone but urself.
lets see what the thread is about again so i can refresh your memory.
*What do you believe? *

Does it seem like the more intelligent an individual is, the more inclined they are to turn to atheism? Do people use science and their own logic as proof that God does not exist? Does it seem like people will base their beliefs on other people's words? Do we try to find truth that will conveniently fit our wish of the universe?
*I just want to know the range of thoughts out there*, and *how distant our beliefs are*.* I dont like to see anyone flaming or regurgitating religious facts*.* I just want to know. What do you believe and hold dear to the deepest part of your cerebral cortex? 
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
first off, you either have not even read what the thread is about and u just thought it would be an opportunity to be a hater, or if you have, it means ur a complete retard.
at first i thought you were islamophobic, but iv come to realise that ur really just religionphobic {if i can say that}. you need to figure out what happend to you when you were a kid/teen that made u hate it like that. i dont wanna know, this is for u to figure out. and please dont reply to this.
ill start from your old thread and work my way to ur ending in this thread.
this is my post after i answerd your questions in your thread, about isalm {the so called religion u had and still have no clue about and i highly doubt uv opened the bible before either}:
https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/350521-organized-religion-rise-fall-2.html
"i would love to go deeper on the subject but i dont think it has a place here."
{as you can see i did not want to go deeper on the subject so i made it clear}.
here is another post of mine while dealing with that other guy on ur same thread:
Lol or maybe he didnt.

Maybe you have no clue wt ur talkin about, what ever slight "insight" u gave is the insight of ur *"Complete Ignorance"* on the subject and nothing more, and now dont go and watch a few youtube videos and come back trying to be smart.
*i wont go further as i was following the topic and not trying to get into a completely different debate and hijack the thread.

"I'm no expert on Islam myself*"
*"I have no ideawhat dickdasterdly is talking about with the science thing",*
i mean really, do i have to explain to you what your saying???
*
"basically take the bad guys from the bible and they are portrayed as good and vice versa*"
*"for the most part from what I have read it's basically the same idea."*
No1 leaves a religion to another religion if it was "*BASICALLY THE SAME*" u fool.
What most part? i doubt uv read the most part of ur 9th grade exam let alone the "most part" of the Bible or Quran for that matter.
You must be one of those geniuses to have figured those 2 out.

P.s. re-read your post and try and spot the major contradiction inside it.

peace.
-----------------
then another person suggested the below and i replied in the following way:
*there is no need to fight for such a minute reason. but by all means "hijack" this thread if it involves informing us on the muslim religion, this is just another religion fueled debate thread anyway =p* 
not fighting just putting the facts forward.
Really i *would love to, but ill opt out on this*, it will take loads out of my time to explain. iv already *done that in Attention Atheist thread so im not looking do that again. 
*
They say : you can take a horse to water but you cant force him to drink.
I Say: you shouldn't need to take a horse to water in the first place, if he's thirsty then even if you throw him in a desert he will use his "Instincts" to find it, and even if he doesn't he will die trying. 


*I hope that makes sense to you, im trying to be clear
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you know that i am not looking to get into a debate or an argument or and explanation in this thread or any other and im definately not trying to convert anyone, u knew that from ur thread but ur still insisting for some reason and throwing out this and that and trying to be smart, do i really make u itch that much? amazing.
==========================================================
clearly the thread we are in now is pretty clear, which is the only reason i thought id write my point of view since it wasnt a debate or argument etc...
---------------------------you:
Yeah, because you *can't *respond to any of the points I made. Admit it, if you could you would have without any complaints.
lool, admit it! i admit, ohhh what can i do im so weak and powerless and ur so witty, smart and well informed.

And yeah, it's your *belief* but you're sitting here making claims of* fact* based on the foundation of Islam, which *isn't fact*. 
*We already know what you believe*, it's *your job to defend it *with logic and reason, not retell it over and over again claiming "this is only *my *belief", because *you wouldn't be in here talking about it for only that reason*, and you *admitted as much in the last post. So what's the point?
*you know nothing of what i believe, and whos we? lol. 
its my job to defend it from who? *you* ? HAHAHA- 
i defend myself i dont need to defend my religion and it does not need me to protect or defend it.
yes i would be here talking about it for only that reason as u fully well know that im not interested in any other reason.
i admitted much in the last post for the only point, which is the threads point. you know the point u dont seem to catch cuz ur all up in da mix.

Come back with something of substance and it might warrant a better reply. 
im not looking for a reply from you and i never have, i was showing u that ur a lier thats all and i definately am not looking to provide u with anything of any substance, just smacking this flee off my back.
And drop the arrogant tone in your posts, is that necessary? 
Do i become arrogant if iv got 10's of years of *live, untamperd, true and honest* research about the subject.? not to mention living in and around the middle east for 14 years and speaking arabic fluently. and i wasnt living in no hotel room either little boy.
But you on the other hand have had a couple of hours max of study on islam since 11 days ago, then what do you become? A RETARD {and dont go denying that u know about it as its right in ur posts that i posted on page 9 and its clearer than day light and if u did research since 11 days ago then ur more of a retard today then you were 11 days ago, good job sunny}
---------------------------------
btw at the end of my first post there is this paragraph:
*This is not intended to fuel dynamite, its a reply to what the topic is about not an argument. 
*REPLY TO WHAT THE *TOPIC* IS ABOUT NOT AN ARGUMENT. {just incase you missed it above}
------------------------------------
later when i expossed your lies and hate, to urself i said the following too:
"*this shit is just too complicated to understand, so you just have to take my word for it*"
can u show me where u quoted that from? im sorry i couldnt find it in my post, u must be seeing things.{im waiting for copy paste}
{which i didnt get obviously}
go back to the post and copy and paste where i said. "*they should automatically deserve respect*".{ill be waiting for a copy paste of that too}
{which i didnt get either}
-----------------------------------
you keep asking me to show you this and that, lol what a guy. *for the last time, I DONT NEED TO SHOW YOU ANYTHING*, you believe your right then right on sunshine * no problem here*.
{but since we have established that your english is rubbish u obviously didnt understand that and still insisted in ur later posts}
"YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE FROM ALL MY POSTS I REPECT OTHER POINTS OF VIEWS AND DO NOT ASK OR TELL ANYONE TO BELIEVE IN MINE. SO STOP TRYING TO PUT IT ACROSS IN A DIFFERENT WAY."
{but u still didnt understand that either}.
then i replied to some one else after my post:
*no negativity here*, *i wrote my point of view*, *i made sure i made it clear that it was my own point of view and that im not starting an argument or debate and i even did that in his thread and made it clear*. *i didnt not threaten or ask ny1 to believe in what i do*,* but some want to make attacks for no valid reason**.*{which ur still doing lol, see the problem is in ur english or ur brain}*
*and even worse present information which is rubbish especially when they know that they have no knowledge about the sub...
*i have no problem with the guy, i just showed him what he had done so he can notice his actions before jumping in the wrong manner the next time*, since he says he has control over himself. 
----------
*Never been to the middle east*, but guess what, I live in America where we enjoy this device called the *internet that enables me to actually look up the shit I'm interested in*, which would include, wouldn't ya know it! *Middle eastern affairs*, world politics, history, religion, etc.

*I've spent 4 years studying religions*, mostly Christianity, but I've also *touched* on Judaism, Islam, a little bit of Buddhism and a little bit of Hinduism. 

How bout you *tell me why you think Muslim extremists are blowing themselves up, lets start there*...
lol so uv never been to the middle east, u used the internet since 11 days till now to look up islam and middle eastern affairs and i doubt uv spent 4 days studying urself let alone 4 years studing christianity. u must be one of those guys that picks up one of those little leaflets explaining sumthing in like 2 pages and busts into the world feeling like a mint leaf of enlightenment. lol PATHETICCC.
btw u need to study a little bit more about how using the internet is different in the US than it is in europe and the middle east. especially on *middle eastern affairs* that ur an expert in. lol.
why u asking me why bro, u know it all man, you know the interenet n shizel, google n bizel.. deal with it one time.
*CONCLUSION:
*Your like a theif that gets caught red handed but still says it wasnt me, only its lieing ur practicing and not stealing.
u need some anger managment, and u need to sort urself out little boy.
lol im going to wait for ur reply to see if ur going to ask me again to provide you with this and that or to defend myself. not to mention i want to see how ur going to continue claiming u know it all about islam/christianity/middle eastern affairs and that ur 11 days of research is the pinacle of enlightenment. + i can wait for u to tell me to "admit it" n how i cant reply to you because i have no "substance".
iv got a business oportunity for you, maybe you should put ur 11 day internet research program on paper, patent it then sell it to all the media/news stations around the world. can u imagine how long the Q would be? i mean u would have every station in the world begging for ur special techniques. they wouldnt have to send another reporter abroad to research or cover an event ever again. think of how much savings u would make them, plane tickets, co2 omissions etc... etc... etc... can i have 1% share for providing u with the idea? pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
can u forward me the technique as it would be saving me alot of money and travel and hassel. i promiss i wont give it to anyone else.
alllll breeze chat.
and pop goes the weasel.


----------



## dickdasterdly666 (Aug 1, 2010)

ill bail out of this thread because im very scared and iv been exposed and uv destroyed my religion piece by piece.  {Snif.Snif}. try and refer to my horse story, it might help u figure it all out.

where did all the honest people go?
has anyone seen tweety?
lol


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## Padawanbater2 (Aug 2, 2010)

The Potologist said:


> Great points, all which are FACTS. Although, I tend to believe that the religious tend to ignore the obvious for their own selfish interest in still being "accepted" in whatever religious cult. Nobody wants to lose their chance at heaven ya know man...HEY, which way is heaven by the way...have u been there???? I havent...when can I get a tour...should I just call?? I mean its real right...or should I just have faith and it appears??? FUck this is so confusing...I want to get there...maybe I will go see a deacon..IM SURE HEEE WILL LEAD ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTIOn....AHAHAHAHAH AHAHHAHAAHAH ( really evil laugh) AHAHAHAHHAHAHA


I think after giving it a little heavy thought, the idea of heaven doesn't really sound that great...

Sure, the first thousand years would be THE SHIT! But what about ten thousand, one hundred thousand, five hundred thousand, a million, a BILLION years? I think even with access to literally everything, it would all lose it's appeal eventually. Maybe that's just me though.. 


 To carry on potologists positive vibe I'm only responding to the stupidest of the stupid of your GIGANTIC redundant unnecessary reply dd666. Perhaps you should take note and do the same thing if you decide to reply back. (cuz we both know you're going to, why kid yourself?)

I'll disregard the insults, I'll forget about the condescending tone coupled with the self righteous arrogance only believers can offer. Lets just see what you actually... *said*..




> at first i thought you were islamophobic, but iv come to realise that ur really just religionphobic {if i can say that}.



Not the first time someone has accused me of that, though it's not really "religionphobic" so much as "ignorancephobic". See, your religion, Islam, along with the other two Abrahamic religions are filled with inaccuracies. That fact can't be denied, it's right there in black and white. The inaccuracies make people living around me and out in the real world believe C R A Z Y S H I T. 

Take the stupid shit out of your religion and replace it with real, true facts compiled by using the scientific method and you wouldn't hear a fuckin' peep from me.




> {the so called religion u had and still have no clue about and i highly doubt uv opened the bible before either}



I don't know a goddamn thing about Islam, except that it means "submit" and that it's just as oppressive (if not more) and mind shackling than the rest. You're not special, neither is Islam. I'm sorry to break it to you, but get over it.




> im not looking for a reply from you and i never have, i was showing u that *ur a lier* thats all and i definately am not looking to provide u with anything of any substance, just smacking this flee off my back.



Time to put up or shut the fuck up dd666. What have I lied about? 




> Do i become arrogant if iv got 10's of years of *live, untamperd, true and honest* research about the subject.? not to mention living in and around the middle east for 14 years and speaking arabic fluently. and i wasnt living in no hotel room either little boy.



You are a dishonest person if you can sit there and say you did "true and honest research" and are a Muslim. If you came to that conclusion of our reality based on your own observations, you are ignorant of scientific achievements, ignorant of some of the most important philosophies of all time and ignorant of the rule of law and the concept of justice. 

Your own description of yourself sounds exactly like an indoctrinated child, congratulations. 




> But you on the other hand have had a couple of hours max of study on islam since 11 days ago, then what do you become? A RETARD {and dont go denying that u know about it as its right in ur posts that i posted on page 9 and its clearer than day light and if u did research since 11 days ago then ur more of a retard today then you were 11 days ago, good job sunny}


 
Show me where I claim to be some sort of expert on Islam. When have I said that? As far as I can remember, I just said I don't really know very much about it, but check that shit out! I don't talk much about it either. Like I said, I know enough about it to know it's complete bullshit and that it makes certain types of people susceptible to influence from some of the worst terrorist organizations on planet Earth, like the Taliban and AQ. Are they themselves bad people? No, they're not, they're just living in unfortunate circumstances that they don't have the ability to pull themselves out of. You on the other hand have no excuse. I have no problem calling you an idiot, because you've shown yourself to be one on this thread, and other threads. How someone sits there and claims superior intelligence while simultaneously admitting to being a Muslim and making obvious spelling errors (with spell check! props!  )a high school dropout wouldn't make is beyond me, above me, I guess like your god... lmao.

It wouldn't be an issue if you didn't make it one, but hey, I guess you're the expert right? 




> can u show me where u quoted that from? im sorry i couldnt find it in my post, u must be seeing things.{im waiting for copy paste}
> {which i didnt get obviously}
> go back to the post and copy and paste where i said. "*they should automatically deserve respect*".{ill be waiting for a copy paste of that too}
> {which i didnt get either}


 
Look again, because I quoted you on both of them. 




> {but since we have established that your english is rubbish u obviously didnt understand that and still insisted in ur later posts}



This is the shit I'm talking about. What kind of idiot says "your english is rubbish" while not speaking or spelling the language correctly themselves?! lmfao... 




> {which ur still doing lol, see the problem is in ur english or ur brain}



Yet here you are, continuing to come back for more to *argue*.

So whose the liar?




> lol so uv never been to the middle east, u used the internet since 11 days till now to look up islam and middle eastern affairs and i doubt uv spent 4 days studying urself let alone 4 years studing christianity.



Believe what you want bro, no sweat off my back.




> btw u need to study a little bit more about how using the internet is different in the US than it is in europe and the middle east. especially on *middle eastern affairs* that ur an expert in. lol.



I'm *not an expert* on middle eastern affairs, that's clear right?




> *CONCLUSION:
> *Your like a theif that gets caught red handed but still says it wasnt me, only its lieing ur practicing and not stealing.




Again, show me one quote where I lied about *anything*. ONE. 

The rest of your post reminds me of that scared little kid you described a few quotes up.


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## Miss MeanWeed (Aug 2, 2010)

I'll jump in here to boldly state that in my opinion no-one has any choice at all in what they do or think. I think the concept of choice is a misnomer, and what we actually have is perceived choice. We think we have a choice but what we really have is a set of predetermined outcomes, seeing as everything we say, do, or think is based entirely on our previous experiences. We are truly the products of our environment, and the old sayings 'You are what you eat' and 'We are the sum total of all our experiences' and the like are literal truths. Popular interpretations of these types of sayings are too generalised and need to be seen from a literal moment-to-moment vantage point. Every moment of awareness, every single micro-instance of thought, either outputted as words or actions, or internalised as thoughts and observations, is the result of a recursive referencing, relating, and rating of previous instances or groupings of experiences. Barring a few genetic variables, every action and reaction whether instant, delayed, or prolonged, is the culmination of mental equations processing relevant data from incoming and prior experiences. Everything you experience can be characterised as links in a chain. If you trace the chains of linked experiences back to inception and visualise all experiences in their entirety, you would see a linear timeline in the shape of a pyramid. The very top of the pyramid represents all experiences at the early stages of life, and the older you get moving down the timeline, the wider the pyramid becomes as more and more is experienced. When you act or react to stimuli, your brain is referencing that pyramid for similar experiences and computing an appropriate response. When you are stunned by something you see, or dumbfounded by a question, your mind is searching fruitlessly for previous or similar incarnations of what you are currently experiencing, or anything it can link it to, hence the pause or stutter or blank look on your face. 

"I didn't know how to react to the news", "I just froze", " I drew a blank" etc...

No-one can control how they truly feel. You can control your reactions to your feelings either preemptively or as they emerge but you cannot control, you have no choice, as to how you actually feel in the first place. Something funny makes you laugh out loud. You didn't have a choice. Someone you love, dies. You are saddened, you have no choice. You have no choice as to how you actually feel, as your emotions are predetermined, and emotions are really nothing more than timed-release reactions.

Everything is cause and effect. Everything that has ever happened, did so because something caused it to happen. It is impossible for something to happen with no cause. It is the same with people. Every emotion, every personality trait or belief you have is the result of your brain computing every bit of sensory data it has received and outputting it as you.

You have no choice, you only have perceived choice.


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## The Potologist (Aug 2, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I think after giving it a little heavy thought, the idea of heaven doesn't really sound that great...
> 
> Sure, the first thousand years would be THE SHIT! But what about ten thousand, one hundred thousand, five hundred thousand, a million, a BILLION years? I think even with access to literally everything, it would all lose it's appeal eventually. Maybe that's just me though..
> 
> ...


Dude, I have no idea how or where you got your quotes, but leave my Name outta of it. I have never EVER SAID ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE,....I really wish you would find who said all that CAUSE IT WAS NOT ME....I have a great memory, and I KNOW I HAVE NEVER SAID ANY OF THAT>...Please FORWARD LINKS AND SHOW ME WHO YOU ARE QUOTING...YOU HAVE MISTAKEN MY !!!! Please Take care of this man. You know I have nothing but respect for you, and I have never said anything of that nature to or towards you so please fix it, fast 

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## The Potologist (Aug 2, 2010)

Originally Posted by *Padawanbater2*  
It's false hope, it sells a faulty product to people who are too naive, gullible, emotional, or weak to see it for what it actually is. It demands things that go against equality, freedom and human nature. It holds humanity back in countless different ways, it divides cultures..

I could go on, but you get the point right?


Most other modern issues seem to stem directly or indirectly from organized religion.



Great points, all which are FACTS. Although, I tend to believe that the religious tend to ignore the obvious for their own selfish interest in still being "accepted" in whatever religious cult. Nobody wants to lose their chance at heaven ya know man...HEY, which way is heaven by the way...have u been there???? I havent...when can I get a tour...should I just call?? I mean its real right...or should I just have faith and it appears??? FUck this is so confusing...I want to get there...maybe I will go see a deacon..IM SURE HEEE WILL LEAD ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTIOn....AHAHAHAHAH AHAHHAHAAHAH ( really evil laugh) AHAHAHAHHAHAHA 

See man, just a couple threads ago this is what I quoted of yours and said of your views and opinions...I never said that stuff man  ​


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## Padawanbater2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey Potologist, I fucked that one up pretty bad! lol, I meant to quote dd666, I just multi-quoted you by mistake. I'll fix that, sorry man, I was aware it wasn't you the whole time.


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## swishatwista (Aug 2, 2010)

I throw this in there, the munks would beat your ass throu'in y-our spiritual essence out to every porn, ya feel me


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## BluCross (Aug 2, 2010)

I can easily show you proof that folks who believe are generally happier than those who do not believe. 
I don't think a man can get close to believing by THINKING....Oddly enough thinking also rarely leads to 
Happiness, in fact an Ancient Book concerning Mans beginning clearly states by Mr. Bigboots, " ..and that tree, the tree "of the Knowledge of Right and Wrong" should be left alone, because when you eat of the tree of the Knowledge of right and wrong you shall be cast from Paradise.
So relax, don't try so hard, follow what your heart is singing NOT what the chattering mind is now telling you !
Good Luck

Blucross


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## The Potologist (Aug 2, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Hey Potologist, I fucked that one up pretty bad! lol, I meant to quote dd666, I just multi-quoted you by mistake. I'll fix that, sorry man, I was aware it wasn't you the whole time.


Thanks man. Shit happens , we get all baked and it tends to happen moreso...Its understandable...thanks for the peace...Bongs to you mate 

Peace, Love, and Happiness


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## The Potologist (Aug 2, 2010)

BluCross said:


> I can easily show you proof that folks who believe are generally happier than those who do not believe.
> I don't think a man can get close to believing by THINKING....Oddly enough thinking also rarely leads to
> Happiness, in fact an Ancient Book concerning Mans beginning clearly states by Mr. Bigboots, " ..and that tree, the tree "of the Knowledge of Right and Wrong" should be left alone, because when you eat of the tree of the Knowledge of right and wrong you shall be cast from Paradise.
> So relax, don't try so hard, follow what your heart is singing NOT what the chattering mind is now telling you !
> ...


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## mindphuk (Aug 2, 2010)

BluCross said:


> I can easily show you proof that folks who believe are generally happier than those who do not believe.


 Even if that is true, it still doesn't make what they believe to be true. Maybe some people are content to just be happy. Me, personally, I would prefer to know the cold, hard truth, regardless of how it makes me "feel."


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## Herbzman (Aug 5, 2010)

I believe Ignorance is Bliss... or choosing to be ignorant... .. or pretending to be.


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## upthearsenal (Aug 5, 2010)

these discussions really take off...

i was quoted and replied to on the second page with something along the lines of "science does not disprove god" or some shit.
you might say that, but on many levels does it disprove the bible. 

people try to justify dinosaurs by saying that they we a design god was improving which led to us.

please... if god were omnipotent then there would have never been evolution, there would have never have been the need for improvement. how can one so perfect design something so imperfect? there is no such thing as a perfect being, therefore god is not perfect, and if he is not perfect then he must not exist because the only version of god is a perfect one, which like i said earlier, does not exist. 

simple logic, real logic, not one made up by creationists or whatever, is all you need. in math, science, logic and HISTORY, there has never been any evidence of god so why is that an option for a rational explanation for the universe? 

it isn't..


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## TrippyReefer (Aug 6, 2010)

Do some shrooms and see where your mind goes. More often than not, God starts making sense and i cant explain it, you just have to try it for yourself.


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## upthearsenal (Aug 6, 2010)

excuse me? you're telling me that some story about a dude who got a woman pregnant, but really didn't, was actually the child concieved, who later died and came back to life. and all this happened before or after a snake talked to a man who made a woman from his rib, and this woman ate a fruit that blah blah burning bush, the oceans were created by rain, blah blah, noah and his reasonably impossible arch, dinosaur bones are there to test your faith, blah blah, carbon dating is false, blah blah

why would shrooms cause contradictions to make sense? maybe it's because something with so many faults, faults that are based upon standards in a quantifiable and measurable physical universe, doesn't make sense. if there was a god you wouldn't need fucking shrooms to make sense of him, if there was a god this world would be totally different, we would have to worry about fucking demons, shape shifters, the devil's countless minions that will come to tempt you, 

absolutely every single argument, every single one you propose to justify god will have a fault, a contraction.

have at it


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## blazin256 (Aug 6, 2010)

the bible isnt meant to be taken literally.


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## upthearsenal (Aug 6, 2010)

haha are you joking? i feel like people now in these times say that to try and justify it's ridiculous bullshit, yet i sincerely doubt at the time it was written they would say read this it's how the universe is explained, but it "isn't meant to be taken seriously" 

pfft

in fact, especially since i have an pastor cousin, evangelists will most likely tell you that's how they are taught the world was made, and how it works.


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## blazin256 (Aug 6, 2010)

i said literally not seriously. the bible wasnt written all at once. it is a culmination of "inspired" texts. there was a lot of other texts not included. and it seems the first christians (or, more literally, jews) didnt take their commandments too literal either,with all the murder and adultery and burnt offerings, etc. any way, what the whole bible is is just a regurgitation of much older religions. thats why it isnt meant to be taken literally. why else would one book say one thing, and the next do the complete opposite? do you really think was no rainbows before "the flood" and that it was put here as a promise to never flood the world again?


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## upthearsenal (Aug 6, 2010)

okay man, good report on the history of the bible? it's relevance, who knows...

the things i mentioned that you are referring to are taken literal, show where it says that that isn't a literal teaching.. hmm? i doubt you could, what the fuck do you think kids are being taught in sunday school, or what priests talk about in church? hypothetical scenarios? 

there's no fucking disclaimer in the bible, and you can't say that it isn't presented in a factual manner when jesus is being cuxified, when he's killed and returns from the dead (as you typically do). or when he walks on water, it's not taken figuratively, it's meant in a literal manner.

once again, pfffft.


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## upthearsenal (Aug 6, 2010)

and i have no clue what you're on about, no rainbows or something?


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## blazin256 (Aug 6, 2010)

well heres somethin that may interest you. from matthew 13
10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" 11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables: 
"Though seeing, they do not see; 
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 

heres the man himself saying what he taught the public was not the same he taught his disciples. so something you could really literally do is take a lot of his words and shove it. you think the church would teach that his real teachings were really secret? and mjss out on that tax free money? HAH


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## DUBS Doobious (Aug 6, 2010)

He who searches for meaning in the external is not looking in the right places.
He who looks within himself can find true understanding.


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## oOBe RyeOo (Aug 6, 2010)

DUBS Doobious said:


> He who searches for meaning in the external is not looking in the right places.
> He who looks within himself can find true understanding.


Dude, crazy avatar... that looks tight.


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## blazin256 (Aug 7, 2010)

DUBS Doobious said:


> He who searches for meaning in the external is not looking in the right places.
> He who looks within himself can find true understanding.


 agreed


oOBe RyeOo said:


> Dude, crazy avatar... that looks tight.


 also agreed


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## upthearsenal (Aug 7, 2010)

blazin256 said:


> well heres somethin that may interest you. from matthew 13
> 10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" 11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
> "Though seeing, they do not see;
> though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
> ...


you missed the point by some margin...
actually read what i posted, i never mentioned jesus' disciples, never do i mention parables.. 

the little quotes you have by no means justify what i asked, look at my examples stop making your own up, they are irrelevant...


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## Brazko (Aug 8, 2010)

Fundamentalist become Atheist, but all Athiest weren't Fundamentalist

Believers become Spiritual, But not all who are Spiritual were Believers...

I believe,


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## 123grow (Aug 8, 2010)

I read the first few replies to this post. Then I decided that the only way for me to post my own opinion, uninfluenced by anyone else on here, is to skip what everyone else has said and just post it. So sorry if I'm beating an old path here.

I'm not religious. So I can't say I know all the things of religion. But weren't we supposed to be made in "His" image?? I mean, carbon dating tells you there are millions of years of history untouched by human beings. If God exists, he existed this whole time, so why would he be inclined to make inferior beings like dinosaurs, precambrian life forms, everything else, and then not only all of that, but destroy them all in seconds (asteroid??). Plus the fact that our world has gone through cycles of mass population by a certain dominion of animals/reptiles, had them all destroyed in some cataclysmic event, and then through millions of years of time turn around to find another species dominant of the planet just seems to point right towards evolution and scientific fact.

So then that sorta leads you around to well where did it all start? I personally choose to believe that the universe is always, will always be here, and has always been here. Everything we know has a start, and an end. We all die. All other living creatures die. and even on atomic levels molecules fade away and break down after their energy has been spent. The only thing that has ever been here the whole time is the universe.

So maybe god is the universe, and visa verse. Why can't religion and science take part? Maybe we all have half the puzzle. Instead of looking at the standing arguments of today, I've always loved humoring myself at preposterous ideas as of yet unheard of.

Now as a personal view, I find religion to be a bad thing. Make millions of people believe something, something that is tied into death and everything so you know it'll create a huge impression on their lives, and then see where it leads? We've had millions of wars caused specifically by religion in human history. There have been just so many racial issue, tension between countries, groups of people... Of course I'm generalizing, but the way I see it is this: Religion is faith. The thing that people pursue religion for is faith. You WANT to believe that there is something after death. You want to believe that there is something larger than yourself. You want to believe that this isn't it, that there is something more. I can relate: Just think about the time you turned a senior in high school or something similar. You thought oh shit, here we go, there isn't anything after this. Only uncertainty and mystery. 

So you create religion to help you get through it. and it all sounds pleasing enough, and sure it makes sense, but yes I will follow along with the people who say its not logical. Do I have the answers? No.... But I know that whatever the answer is, it should have more rhyme or reason then just a bearded figure. I mean think about it. I am more inclined to believe dragons existed, because dragons are common amongst all people. They're in stories that date back centuries. God has many faces, many interpretations, and if you lived in the time of Egyptian kings, there were hundreds of GODS!

God and religion is invented to fulfill, to reassure you of the next thing, to help fill the void of what none of us will know.

But then I look at science, and i know that I'll be buried. Through decomposition my body will be returned into the ground on a molecular and atomic level. Being the only species for conscious thought, thought of ourselves, we're the only species to have invented some realm of possibility beyond life. I simply don't think that it works like that. If we were a dog, or a cat, or an elephant, or anything else, we wouldn't be doing ANYTHING! we would fulfill life's basic tasks such as eating and drinking and sleeping, and then when we die, we die. That's it.. over. nothing else

being a math guy, and science person, I don't like not having the answer. What happens after life honestly terrifies me. But I'm not going to create some sort of all powerful being or afterlife or heaven and hell or anything of the sort just to fill the void. That's cheating in my opinion. It's great to have faith, trust me I know, but I'd rather have faith that I'll be used as fertilizer for my weed plants, then to imagine living in the clouds with a bearded guy who's glowing, only to find out I've been terribly mistaken.

So pretty much, to sum it up, I'm going to live life. I'm not going to consider what happens next. Our life is the longest thing we will ever have. We won't consciously know of anything after it, so why worry? I was nervous when I started college, but then I started it and found out it was ok. Didn't know what to expect really, but I had faith in the system. 

Whatever is behind all of it, I'm sure I'll find it out when it's my time to find out. until then, I can only make sure I do everything I can to live my life to the fullest.



.... By the way. Humans suck. A donkey would never cause an oil spill. and rabbit wouldn't hold someone up for money. Humans are ruining the planet, and that is a FACT. if we continue our current way of living, this planet will collapse. Just use your head to figure that out. It's obvious that we are at the same time the smartest and the dumbest creature around? So why would god create man, to destroy the planet he created in 7 days? I definitely would not paint a picture and intentionally set it outside just to see how it would turn out... but this is all speculation of course.


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## upthearsenal (Aug 8, 2010)

great post 123grow, something different and thought out properly. 
your last paragraph is very true and i fully agree, and one point i'd like to add is that the idea that this life is almost insignificant, that your future life in heaven is all that matters, people think of Earth as insignificant. i can't remember how many times i've heard assholes say "who cares about drilling for oil, we're all going to die and go to heaven"... it's a generally a bad mentality to have

and if there is a god, and there was a creator or creators, and maybe it fits within the natural universe as it is, and maybe they have to abide by the physical laws we live by, but never will there ever be a place for the BIBLE and science, no way. 

the bible and it's teachings are almost the antithesis of science. apply the scientific method to any of the ideas in the bible that are presented as facts, try it

if science and the bible go hand in hand, you have to add fairies, cyclops, Hercules, peter pan, harry potter and any other simple tale that has no empirical evidence, not only does that not make any sense, it's downright stupid.

we don't live in a time where we can't explain geological processes, or know simple things about our world and universe. but we don't need something like religion that leads logical, knowledge seeking people to more confusion. 

as a child these things didn't make sense to me, but that's because my parents never took to me to church or told me that i would loose my potential life in heaven if i wacked off.


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## DUBS Doobious (Aug 8, 2010)

123grow said:


> I read the first few replies to this post. Then I decided that the only way for me to post my own opinion, uninfluenced by anyone else on here, is to skip what everyone else has said and just post it. So sorry if I'm beating an old path here.
> 
> I'm not religious. So I can't say I know all the things of religion. But weren't we supposed to be made in "His" image?? I mean, carbon dating tells you there are millions of years of history untouched by human beings. If God exists, he existed this whole time, so why would he be inclined to make inferior beings like dinosaurs, precambrian life forms, everything else, and then not only all of that, but destroy them all in seconds (asteroid??). Plus the fact that our world has gone through cycles of mass population by a certain dominion of animals/reptiles, had them all destroyed in some cataclysmic event, and then through millions of years of time turn around to find another species dominant of the planet just seems to point right towards evolution and scientific fact.
> 
> ...


This guys is so right on.


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## TrippyReefer (Aug 10, 2010)

Theres so much ignorance here, but im glad there are some people people here that know what theyre talking about..
watch "through the wormhole", itll blow your mind.


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## upthearsenal (Aug 10, 2010)

right.. ignorance..


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