# Anyone used Short day cycles 6/12 ??



## headbandrocker (May 18, 2009)

I have read aabout the short day cycles and am very interested...

harvest-master.com/casestudies.html

If you have tried this technique please share your results,or if you personaly have seen this work.


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## YaK (Jun 9, 2009)

I read in the clone contest thread that you were going to do this for comparison. 

Are you using the harvest master to set the light cycle?

Will you be keeping a journal? I'm very interested...though, it kind of sounds too good to be true.


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## headbandrocker (Jun 9, 2009)

Lol
youd think thered be a bit more buzz on thiz thread?!
I am not using a HM controller {do the come with short day option for timer?}
I was digin there controllers then alot of stores discontinued there gear<so i held off.

I found a random note in paperwork my friend gave me when he handed over his old gear.There was a brief comment about the 6/12 saying the sources saaid they did well with 6/12 but claims couldnt be verified.

Then i found this:
harvest-master.com/casestudies.html

After readin that i talked with a friend who uses it and gets good results,maybe a gram or 3 less than reg yield,but way less electricity.

There are many reasons this is so attractive,
you heard anythingabout this cycle?


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## DIRTHAWKER (Jun 9, 2009)

Hmmm..how does that save electricity? isnt it still 12 hours of lights on during any 24 hour period? 6 on 12 off 6 on =24 hrs?


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## YaK (Jun 9, 2009)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> Hmmm..how does that save electricity? isnt it still 12 hours of lights on during any 24 hour period? 6 on 12 off 6 on =24 hrs?


with 6/12 a "day" is 18 hours, instead of 24 hours

so every day you save six hours... every four days, you gain a day.

in 28 days, you would gain a week (7 days)

so if the plant finishes that much faster, that's less time that you'd have your HPS's blaring and your electricity dial spinning like a turbo frisbee.


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## DIRTHAWKER (Jun 9, 2009)

maybe im missing something? how does that equate to saving energy? i mean maybe you can fool the plants but how do you fool the electric co? 

or do the plants finish up a week early?


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## cookin (Jun 9, 2009)

i was liking the look of that harvest master thing, it has a setting for fast flowering, but then i looked at the price. anyone found anything like that for cheaper, or even just timer that does 6/12 would do??


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## YaK (Jun 9, 2009)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> maybe im missing something? how does that equate to saving energy? i mean maybe you can fool the plants but how do you fool the electric co?
> 
> or do the plants finish up a week early?


"supposedly" it finishes early.

an 8 week strain 56 days divided by 4 (because every four days you "save" a day) is 14, so you'd finish 14 days earlier. so... two weeks less of running electricity for that particular harvest.

I do have to say though... there are a couple articles on the internet about how great it works, but I havent found anyone on this forum that has completed a grow this way to say yay or nay on the method.

the issue is with a timer that you can set for 12 off, 6 on, 12 off...etc. etc. you'd need a special timer.


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## DIRTHAWKER (Jun 9, 2009)

so this will not work with a perpetual harvest. ( SAVING MONEY) beacuse theres only so many hours in a day,week month year. but it might make you harvest some strains quicker and make the rotatation rotate faster?

If you ran lights 12/12 for a year your bill would be= ?

If you ran 6/12 for ayear your bill would be= ?


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## headbandrocker (Jun 9, 2009)

Solatel pro timer has 6/12
$233 aint so bad,If you guys pitch in buy the timer for me ill post a whole thread
witha whole room on 6/12! Whatta deal! So whos in?


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## YaK (Jun 9, 2009)

if you get more harvests faster... then you'd have more yeild to show for your electricity bill. So I think it'd work good for a perpetual, that is IF it works. 

I think you should try it!


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## DIRTHAWKER (Jun 9, 2009)

Im in if it saves money but ... HOW? i dontwanna be the test hampster...LOL


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## headbandrocker (Jun 9, 2009)

I will be the hamster! I ordered the timer just need to go get it tomorow,cheers


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## cookin (Jun 9, 2009)

did you only find those two timers i'm looking for one in the uk but can't find it, was thinking about ordering the solatel but looks like shipping could be expensive, the australian one http://www.intelli-cycle.com/index.php only charges 20 australian dollars for shipping but the site looks pretty dodgy, someones just drawn that thing on instead of taking a photo??? makes me not want to order from them


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## headbandrocker (Jun 9, 2009)

that ones sweet,you cant set your own progrmaming the solatel doesnt offer that.


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## pinner420 (Jun 9, 2009)

Subscribed....


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## pitbudz87 (Jun 9, 2009)

subscribed this looks very intersting +rep for givin it a go


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## YaK (Jun 9, 2009)

so with the solatel, you have to program start and stop times, instead of just an on 6 off 12 ? pain in the ass!

How many program presets do you get with the solatel?

I'm glad you volunteered to be the hamster. I hope it works out bitchen.


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## dbo24242 (Jun 9, 2009)

well thats not a bad idea. do you think 4/8 would work? then you could use a normal timer and get yield in half the time!


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## YaK (Jun 9, 2009)

dbo24242 said:


> well thats not a bad idea. do you think 4/8 would work? then you could use a normal timer and get yield in half the time!


lol, or a 2/4 light schedule.

even better a strobe light that would get us harvests in mere minutes.


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## Nocturn3 (Jun 9, 2009)

dbo24242 said:


> do you think 4/8 would work?


No, I don't think so. Most strains will not flower until they measure at least 10-12 hours of darkness. I can't remember the exact science behind it, but there is a chemical that builds up during darkness that needs to reach a critical point before the flowering response is activated. If light is introduced before this point, the chemical is depleted and the plant remains in veg mode.

Or something like that.


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## dbo24242 (Jun 10, 2009)

Nocturn3 said:


> No, I don't think so. Most strains will not flower until they measure at least 10-12 hours of darkness. I can't remember the exact science behind it, but there is a chemical that builds up during darkness that needs to reach a critical point before the flowering response is activated. If light is introduced before this point, the chemical is depleted and the plant remains in veg mode.
> 
> Or something like that.


 
cool, good answer. I know that cannabis is a short-day flowering annual so the primary factor influencing buds is short nights of 12 hrs or less. 
I guess 8 hrs might be too short.


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## headbandrocker (Jun 10, 2009)

Well i spent all night/morning reading about folkes who tried it,and can honestly say a side by side must be done to see how this works in comparison to 12/12...
I am going to do 2 grows :1 x 6/12 and 1 x 12/12 same strain,same moms,same medium etc so we can see how this works.I might not use co2 to keep it easy,but well see.
Stay tuned
Hbr


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## pitbudz87 (Jun 10, 2009)

headbandrocker said:


> Well i spent all night/morning reading about folkes who tried it,and can honestly say a side by side must be done to see how this works in comparison to 12/12...
> I am going to do 2 grows :1 x 6/12 and 1 x 12/12 same strain,same moms,same medium etc so we can see how this works.I might not use co2 to keep it easy,but well see.
> Stay tuned
> Hbr


 wonderful cant wait


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## pinner420 (Jun 10, 2009)

I'm prettys sure this will make a worthy story for the magazines when finished for the publish. I think it would be uber cool to see how the harvest master stacks against the solotel for round two of testing. By the time you have answeres to this I'll be able to pick up a harvest master pro.


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## johnny961 (Jun 10, 2009)

I got a heavy duty digital timer from lowes for $18 with up to 14 presets or it can actually duplicate your natural local light cycle if you want.


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## pinner420 (Jun 10, 2009)

johnny961 said:


> I got a heavy duty digital timer from lowes for $18 with up to 14 presets or it can actually duplicate your natural local light cycle if you want.


 No shit and it handles 240 volt? Thats cheap.


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## johnny961 (Jun 10, 2009)

Sorry nobody discussed voltage pinner.


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## dbo24242 (Jun 10, 2009)

headbandrocker said:


> Well i spent all night/morning reading about folkes who tried it,and can honestly say a side by side must be done to see how this works in comparison to 12/12...
> I am going to do 2 grows :1 x 6/12 and 1 x 12/12 same strain,same moms,same medium etc so we can see how this works.I might not use co2 to keep it easy,but well see.
> Stay tuned
> Hbr


 
try 4/8 too XD

I'm gonna add you so I can keep an eye on that test.


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## aknight3 (Jun 12, 2009)

i think the yield would be affected.


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## pinner420 (Jun 13, 2009)

aknight3 said:


> i think the yield would be affected.


 So what we know from the harvestmaster claims thus far are.
1. Harvest time reduced by a week sometimes two.
2. Savings of electricity. I still have a hard time with that especially with whole notion of "plant days" but with the solotel rotations eventually a portion of the rotation will merge into the heat of the day is my only concern. With my 12/12 I get the let my a/c run in the evenging without fighting the sun.???
3. This time duration is " the plants most productive time."


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## pinner420 (Jul 4, 2009)

Dude I need some pics.....


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## Badmf (Jul 5, 2009)

This technique is called "Time Shifting" I had a piece on OG many many years ago and an article in some mags. Folks think you're krzy for suggesting anything other than 12/12 lol. I do it different though. First I add time during peak budset 3-5 weeks then cut to 6 on 12 off until the final three which go 4 on 12 off this adusts time but "adds" growth during budset. With this method you save a week but gain yeild!! All strains aren't happy with this but most are. This is the nutshell version as nutes and temps are adjusted as well. Maybe this can shed some lite on the subject. I also did UV experiments so save your time on that one, lol. It works but results are minimal. If you could set em out in full Sun it will add trikes.


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## headbandrocker (Jul 5, 2009)

Great info Badmf!!
How much increase in yield have you noticed?
Cheers


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## Badmf (Jul 5, 2009)

headbandrocker said:


> Great info Badmf!!
> How much increase in yield have you noticed?
> Cheers


 25% but remember I have this dialed in 1880ppm co2, great oscillating fans recirculating it from the floor, mixed spectrum lighting with a mover. Lanky strains need more LST to fulfill yeilds better than average. Like OG's etc. This isn't for everyone as you need digital timers to "fix" the times or ou'll be getting up at all hours. This is what I did back then not reccomended, lol. All strains have different "dark" trigger times so some may start bloom cycles at 13.2 hours and some more some less. To gauge your strains tiome set time back from 14.5 after two weeks (ou must NOT start plants that were in over 18 hours as they will go automatically) I like to back down to 17 or 16 before going into this "dark" trigger time search. Do the time back 30 minutes every week look for any sign of sex once seen mark that time. 
From there on you can use "that" time to trigger bloom instead of arbitrary 12/12. Now on "Time Shifting" I was trying to get plants to finish in less time then the seed companys stated and wanted to lower my electric bills, lol. 
BTW you can run Mothers on 4 on 8 off, 4 on 8 off to save juice without starting bloom, thats only 8 hours lites on but still veggin!! Late!!!Bad...


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## Mysticlown150 (Jul 5, 2009)

headbandrocker said:


> Great info Badmf!!
> How much increase in yield have you noticed?
> Cheers


So you never started the test?


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## headbandrocker (Jul 5, 2009)

Very interesting badmf,how did you stumble upon the 4/8 veg time?


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## Badmf (Jul 8, 2009)

The yeild increases are strain dependent, but to be more detailed. The OG's had 25% more yeild than before under "standard" 12/12. For plants with higher yeilds it could be a waste of time with calculating days and digital timers etc. Remember you can make no mistakes!!! I woke up with two alarms for weeks to accomplish this, now there are timers out to ease the transition. Try it on one plant to see if it meets your needs.


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## YaK (Jul 8, 2009)

Mysticlown150 said:


> So you never started the test?


 is the test going to start? has it been started? I hope this thread isnt another empty hypothesis.


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## Badmf (Jul 9, 2009)

YaK said:


> is the test going to start? has it been started? I hope this thread isnt another empty hypothesis.


 The results have been in for a long time now. Simply relaying the info. As I said it was on OGs forums and in print, just thought you'd be interested. I did these experiments 18 years ago, lol.


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## pinner420 (Jul 9, 2009)

In your opinion then is this something that is worth doing in the heat of summer? Thanks badmf for schooling us!!


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## YaK (Jul 9, 2009)

isnt OverGrow gone? too bad that info wasnt archived. The trigger thing seems complicated. I was wondering if you could just go from 24 veg to 6/12 flower. 

That's really what I thought this thread was going to test.

Timers are getting more advanced, so I can see this being more applicable than it used to be (I cant believe you were able to get up at those weird hours all the time to turn lights on/off!)

I dont see anything other than 12/12 very much, but if it does work, I'd sure like to!



Badmf said:


> The results have been in for a long time now. Simply relaying the info. As I said it was on OGs forums and in print, just thought you'd be interested. I did these experiments 18 years ago, lol.


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## laminatedspacedestruction (Jul 10, 2009)

subscribed!


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## toastypimp (Jul 10, 2009)

laminatedspacedestruction said:


> subscribed!



This seems too good to be true and that's only from reading how a plant makes bud. When the lights are off a chemical buildup in the plant occurs that tells the plant to make buds. When you turn the lights on this chemical is pretty much cut off and it starts its light cycle.

So, when you shorten the time the plant has to make bud...it makes more bud? Like, the plant works harder during its bud cycle or what?


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## jimmyc (Jul 10, 2009)

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/4224.html

From CCMag


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## Badmf (Jul 10, 2009)

toastypimp said:


> This seems too good to be true and that's only from reading how a plant makes bud. When the lights are off a chemical buildup in the plant occurs that tells the plant to make buds. When you turn the lights on this chemical is pretty much cut off and it starts its light cycle.
> 
> So, when you shorten the time the plant has to make bud...it makes more bud? Like, the plant works harder during its bud cycle or what?


Not what I said!! I lengthened the time for several weeks (36/12) then I shortened it, 6/12) till finish. The only time I use 6/12 is at the end. As Ed says in his article it would reduce grow time even if it finished sooner it would be a lower yeild. But this is for 6/12 all the wa out different than my methods.Most people think I'm crazy and they're right! LOL


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## thegreenman (Jul 10, 2009)

I tried having shorter days on my last grow. Unfortunatley i also fucked it up by not being around for a month and letting the ph get way too low so i cant give a fair idea of yeild, it was a shit grow. I did find though that if you set your timers to 6.40 off and 12 on you can fit 9 'days' into a week, that way its easier to keep track of when its on and off and you only need a timer that supports 9 programs.

When i realised how bad it had gone i panicked and switched back to 12/12, bad idea. It tripped them back into veg then straight back to bloom and caused double budding and a considerable drop in yeild.

From what i've played with i think shorter days have the potential to work quite well. Faster grow and cheaper electric per grow is attractive but im gonna finnish the grow im on on 12/12 since im trying out a combination of LST, FIM and supper cropping and i dont want to make it any more complicated than it already is! If everything goes well i'll be trying 6.40/12 again.


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## headbandrocker (Nov 1, 2009)

Greetings folkes i recently started a thread on a 6/12 exparment im doing feel free to head over for a ride in the time machine,cheers HBR
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/258737-hbrs-6-12-time-machine.html


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## sherriberry (Nov 2, 2009)

math is one of my strong points, and by reading this thread, i can tell a few of you are a bit confused...

the 6/12 method DOES save electricity.

Think of it this way, lights are on 1/3 the time... instead of 1/2 the time.

if you only think of the first day, then you are cheating yourself... you have to look at the next 3 days as well, make a chart if you have to... point is... your electric bill would be cut... and ill tell you the exact amount...

1/2 x 2 = 1
1/3 x 2 = 2/3

3/3 - 2/3 = 1/3

1/3 savings

or you can look at it like this, my lights are on .33% of the time instead of .5%
.50 - .3333 = .1666
.1666 goes into .50 three times.

So again, 1/3 or 33% savings on your electric bill.

Now if you factor in the heat reduction in your room... you might even save more money.

Plants grow at night. They store chemicals from day time until night comes, and then build themselves.

During the day the work is to capture the light and nutrients in water in soil... during night it doenst have light to capture, so it focuses its energy on building.

hypothetically... a plant can only store so much energy... kind of like a battery.

if you leave your cell phone on the charger for 2 weeks, it doesnt mean it will stay charged for a month... same concept here.

So, i think it makes sense that even with 1/3 less light, a plant could still perform comprable to the normal 12/12.

But that is all just theory... i dont have any data either way...

I just find this thread interesting and wanted to help a few people out who were having a hard time understanding the power savings aspect.

Cheers


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## sherriberry (Nov 2, 2009)

biggest downfall i can see to this is... daytime might be at 3am... and night time might be at noon... each day it will vary. Every 3 days the cycle rotates.

So if you like checking on your plants, and dont have those nifty green lights that the plants cant see... then you are screwed and might mess up your plants.

As far as the question goes up top about "can you put the plants straight from 24/0 veg to 6/12 bloom... yes you can.

As someone already mentioned... what causes the plant to boom is the 12 hours of un interupted darkness.

24 hours of darkness would make your plant bloom... but problem is plant still needs light.

How much light?... consecutive light?... 

thats the question at hand.

If a plant only needs 6 hours... and then everything after that is just wasted... and the plant has enough energy stored, and is waiting for the lights to go out... then this system WOULD make a plant bud faster because the 6 EXTRA hours that mother nature leaves the lights on.... is useless...

its like keeping a phone on a charger after it says its done charging...

so... do i know how much light CONSECUTIVE that a plant can use and needs during budding? NO

But, i do know there is a limit... there has to be.

And if it is only 6, or 7, 8, 9... whatever the number...

Then ALL OF US are wasting electricity and TIME by not letting the plant have the darkness it needs to burn through the energy it has.. and then come back for a new charge (daylight)

Im very interested to see what the tests show. Hopefully someone who has a grow in a basement or super dark room can do this... because like i said... you will have the lights out at high noon every 3 days by using this cycle.... and that means no other light can be present... which means you cant accidently check on your plants and let them see light.


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## sherriberry (Nov 2, 2009)

and for all of you who think... "plants dont need darkenss... hell, i veg them 24 hours straight for a month with no darkenss!"

What you may not realize is the plant has a window (ive heard 4 hours, but im sure it varries plant to plant species)... the plant has a window of time where once it has so much light energy saved up... IT SHUTS DOWN ITS LIGHT ABSORBTION for a 4? hour period, until it uses that energy, and then goes back to absorbing light again.

So for all of those of you who burn your lights 24/7... theres roughly 4 hours a day that you WASTE your electricity... that the plant isnt even using. 

And it actually stresses the plant... just as you dont like to sleep with a light blaring in your face... nor does the plant... it doenst have eye lids.

This is why 24/7 lights on all the time... cause hermies... because its stressful on the plant.

The least stress on the plant during veg is 14.5 hours of light, and 9.5 dark.

Doing this and a few other things can almost ensure 100% female production from seeds... because it causes the least stress.

However... 20/4 will cause the plants to veg and grow faster... so pick your poison...

10/10 seeded plants are female but are smaller than...

6/10 plants that are female but are larger because they had 20/4 light cycle.

If you are starting from seed... i would recomend the 14.5/9.5 ... you lose less in the long run IMO.

If you are starting from clones or clippings... 20/4 is the way to go because sex is already determined at that point as long as you are clipping from a female.

Theres my 3 cents


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## pinner420 (Nov 3, 2009)

This thread actually failed to run this experiment as we all had high hopes that that it would. So for those of you looking for pictorial evidence of this here is the link that went the distance. http://strainguide.org/grow-archives-2/ looking in on this link you will find what you are looking for however since the site the thread was posted to is no longer you will have use you back button to navigate properly. Hope all is well and this helps you in your quest.


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## RanTyr (Nov 3, 2009)

sherriberry said:


> and for all of you who think... "plants dont need darkenss... hell, i veg them 24 hours straight for a month with no darkenss!"
> 
> What you may not realize is the plant has a window (ive heard 4 hours, but im sure it varries plant to plant species)... the plant has a window of time where once it has so much light energy saved up... IT SHUTS DOWN ITS LIGHT ABSORBTION for a 4? hour period, until it uses that energy, and then goes back to absorbing light again.
> 
> ...


You completely made that up (or regurgitated that from someone who made it up, which is worse) and are pretending that it is fact.

Perhaps you should take some botany classes.


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## plasmargon (Nov 3, 2009)

Harvest master got the idea of short cycling from my friend in Alaska, I like seeing ideas grow.

YES you can speed up harvest AND throw off the tell-tale signs in the electric meter with this technique but it will not produce more than you would get without short cycling. You will get about the same weight per average days it just comes to full maturity in 7/9ths of the time.

This technique uses a 7 day/ 10 event digital timer to fit 9 days into seven.

Starting at midnight on Sunday program your timer to be 'on' for 6 hours and 40 minutes (6:40 AM), then off for 12 hours (Sun. 6:40 PM) then on again for 6 hrs 40 min (until Mon. 1:20 AM) off again for 12hrs, etc. for nine full events then you will find it comes to ending in sync with the next weekly start cycle. (I recommend working it out on paper first)

We discovered back in the 80's that as long as you have the light off for 12 hours and on for equal amounts (4-12 hours) plants will continue to stay in fruit production mode.

If you have time restrictions or want to be sure there are no discernable electric patterns in your usage, this IS the way to go. You can fit 9 weeks of budding into 7. Cool.


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## plasmargon (Nov 3, 2009)

Oh yeah @ sherriberry, 

The idea of the plant shutting itself down has been proven to be false. It needs darkness to properly utilize the energy it gathered durring the light cycle. The reason most people don't like shutting off the light durring cloning is because of heat regulation which is way more important than giving rest to clones. This is very important though...if your mother is on a 24 light cycle it's most beneficial to have the clones the same way. Or if the mother is 16 hrs 'On' (ideal in 24 hour cycle) then the clones should be the same to alleviate stress durring cloning. This just means you need a good root mat heater to adjust for the cooler off period.

My recomondation to those cloning using the 'short cycle technique' is; fit all your cycles into the 18hr 40mn day length. 

I do it like this; *clone/ mother* 'On' 14 hrs, 'Off' 4hrs 40min. *Budding* ; 'On' 6hrs 40min, 'Off' 12hrs. 
Simillar to what the 'fast harvest' setting on the Harvest Master does.


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## RanTyr (Nov 3, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> Oh yeah @ sherriberry,
> 
> The idea of the plant shutting itself down has been proven to be false. It needs darkness to properly utilize the energy it gathered durring the light cycle. .


This is also incorrect.


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## the church man (Nov 3, 2009)

RanTyr said:


> This is also incorrect.


want to share your knowledge? can you elaborate on this? can you show that you are correct instead of just saying you are?


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## sherriberry (Nov 4, 2009)

the church man said:


> want to share your knowledge? can you elaborate on this? can you show that you are correct instead of just saying you are?



yeah, im all for learning... its hard when egos get involved.

I have a hard time looking up to anyones knowledge here based on the fact that NO ONE but the guy who posted the thread is intelligent enough to realize that 6/12 uses less electricity than 12/12... during a weeks time.

I also have a hard time believing that 24/7 light is not hard on a plant ... when it has been PROVEN that stress causes hermes, or seeds to germinate into males... when NOT ran in a 14.5/9.5 light cycle during veg until sex is shown.

So you can say im incorrect all you want, but its observable fact... run the science fair project for yourself.

Or, believe that i am incorrect, and keep doing it the way you are doing it.




As far as light cycles and electric bills go... and being noticed...

Having the lights come on at 6am, and stay on till midnight... IS NORMAL... for all they know, you have a couple big screen tv's and a computer you fire up every morning, and your wife and kids watch it till late at night.

Putting lights on a 6 on, 12 off... IS A HUGE RED FLAG... it will be a simple chart of spikes for the electric company to see on exact 6 hour incriments, and they will be like... who the hell wakes up at midnight and turns on their tv for 6 hours, then shuts if off until the next night at 6pm?

If you want to get the electric company off your back.. STAGGER your on off times by an hour or so. In other words... one morning 6 am, the next 6:30, the next 5:45, and have it bounce around... instead of EXACTLY every 12 hours... or whatever cycle you are on.

I can already see where this thread is going, and i doubt there is much more to be learned here... but rather... get to read intelligent individuals argue about why the other is wrong... only they dont have an argument... and would rather just insult eachother and say "you are incorrect"

ill leave you experts alone to duke this one out... if anyone gets too cocky... just pull up their quotes earlier in the thread where they say that a 6/12 cycle uses the same amount of electricity as a 12/12 over the course of a week. geniuses


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## sherriberry (Nov 4, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> Oh yeah @ sherriberry,
> 
> The idea of the plant shutting itself down has been proven to be false. It needs darkness to properly utilize the energy it gathered durring the light cycle. The reason most people don't like shutting off the light durring cloning is because of heat regulation which is way more important than giving rest to clones. This is very important though...if your mother is on a 24 light cycle it's most beneficial to have the clones the same way. Or if the mother is 16 hrs 'On' (ideal in 24 hour cycle) then the clones should be the same to alleviate stress durring cloning. This just means you need a good root mat heater to adjust for the cooler off period.
> 
> ...


Where did you get the idea that cloning is at all part of this discussion?

Im talking about veg'ing and blooming a plant.. i think everyone here is also..

who runs their clones on a 12/12 hour cycle? i have no clue what you are talking about.

This thread is about veging and blooming... and saving electricity, BECAUSE IT DOES for all you mathematical geniuses out there...

And then asking the question... "how are my yeilds and harvest times affected by this new cycle"

People are trying to save money on their 1000 watt setups that are used for harvest and veg...

i dont think anyone is trying to save the electric bill of their 2 fluro lights that are above their clones 

Like i said to anyone who reads beyond this point.... goodluck, grab your popcorn and a joint... the smart ones who cant tell that 6 is less than 12... are going to enlighten us that we are "incorrect"


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## RanTyr (Nov 4, 2009)

the church man said:


> want to share your knowledge? can you elaborate on this? can you show that you are correct instead of just saying you are?



That would require me doing the hard part of the research process so that all you have to do it read.


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## the church man (Nov 4, 2009)

RanTyr said:


> That would require me doing the hard part of the research process so that all you have to do it read.


 
hahahahaha

if doing the research is the "hard part" then you still have much to learn.

what i was asking you to do is actually help those who are reading this thread. OBVIOUSLY you know more about the subject than others. why not share the knowledge? 

by the way, what is "hard part" of doing research? is it typing it into your internet search engine? 

rantyr,
i understand that you are going to reply to this with an attack of any and all knowledge that i may or may not have. that is fine with me as long as somebody actually learns something.

if you actually know what you claim then you would have just answered my question. those who are looking to help share what they know.

those who are looking to hinder....well you know who you are. or do you?


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## RanTyr (Nov 4, 2009)

the church man said:


> hahahahaha
> 
> if doing the research is the "hard part" then you still have much to learn.
> 
> ...


If to you wading through years of botanical research to find the relevant studies is easy then perhaps you should seek employment in said area. It most certainly isn't excessively difficult but tedious is an applicable adjective.

How can you presume to know how I would reply to your insightful reply? Baseless assumptions are what I would expect from the other morons on here. Don't stoop to such a ridiculously low level, it doesn't suit your intellect.

Oh. There is a difference between helping and doing work on behalf of others. Perhaps it is callous of me to force my warped ideology on laziness onto others, but at least I gave a decent jump-off point. Allowing misinformation to circulate unchecked is a more egregious error than being a dick in my opinion.


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## pinner420 (Nov 5, 2009)

I wanted to know if any of you took time in this thread to read the link I posted for you all? Hope all is well and look forward to comments based on this thread again. Thanks. Much Success.


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## sherriberry (Nov 5, 2009)

RanTyr said:


> Oh. There is a difference between helping and doing work on behalf of others. .


dude, you are such a fool... you dont even see how un intelligent you make yourself look...

your last 3 posts talk about

"why would i want to look up the answers for you fools"

Which in turn means... you currently DONT KNOW THE ANSWERS.

If you knew the answers... there would be no work!

You could have rattled them off in shorter time than i took you to try to use larger words in your last post...

so the point is... you just want to be right, and others to be wrong... and you have yet to figure out why you are right... but if you dig through enough books, you assume you have a shot at proving one of us wrong...

but you dont want to do that because thats time and work..

but its not time and work to combat angry souls who you tell are "incorrect" and dont take the time to expain the real truth...

because you dont know it yet... so it would be work to go look it up.

are you kidding right now? do you have any idea how dumb you look?




RanTyr said:


> That would require me doing the hard part of the research process so that all you have to do it read.


if you know we are incorrect.. the the research process should have already been done before you insulted us with "you are incorrect"


Let me give you a bit of advise because it appears you have missed the boat...

here on the internet, there are forums. On these forums, people share knowledge to help eachother. no one knows everything, everyone is going to be incorrect sooner or later...

but telling someone they are incorrect doesnt fix the problem... you have to share the correct knowlede with them.

Apparently, you have yet to find the correct knowledge yourself...



RanTyr said:


> That would require me doing the hard part of the research process so that all you have to do it read.


"doing" is future tense, vs "did" which means you already have done it... dictionary boy. It means you admitted that you have yet to do it! Which is why it would require WORK for you to tell us the truth because you dont have it stored in your brain yet...

so please... get out of our way because you are a waste of time and finger movements, and have effectively de-railed a good conversation between people WHO ARE WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME TO SEARCH FOR TRUTH, AND SHARE IT WITH EACHOTHER.... within this hard to grasp place called "an internet forum"

In other words... take your dictionary of big words, and get lost... youre not fooling anyone... but yourself into thinking you have a chance at appearing intelligent at this point.


"i dont want to share knowlede on internet forums, i would rather spend my day telling people they are incorrect, because i sure they are, but i dont want to do the rsearch to figure out why. This makes me feel better about myself if i think everyone else is incorrect. Myself and a violent ape have a lot in common, except i have a dictionary and can type. Bravo me, bravo!"


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## the church man (Nov 5, 2009)

rantyr,

i am actually considering an occupation in the cannabis industry. i feel that i could make a positive impact and of course it is one of my passions. thanks for the suggestion...

i was not asking you to do the work for me. my intention was for you to provide an accurate base of information that myself and others could expand on. i'm sure you're aware (there i go with assumptions again) of the wealth of misinformation out there and the difficulty of finding good ground to stand on. 

you are right. i did make an assumption regarding your reply. to assume is to make an ass out of you and me. this is not typical behavior for me and i make no excuses

there are few (read: very few) people on RIU who i've come to respect. these people are earnest in their efforts to help others and knowledgeable about the activity that brings us all together. there are also few threads on RIU that are very helpful and informative. these two things have one thing in common; the ability to exchange information selflessly. this is why i joined in the first place. i felt that i could benefit from and contribute to this gathering of individuals from around the world even though i'm inexperienced (flowering my first grow).

i agree with you're opinion that allowing misinformation to circulate unchecked is a more egregious error than being a dick. but i feel that you did the minimum to correct this "circulating misinformation" while at the same time kind of coming off as a dick. don't get me wrong, there are times and situations that call for being a dick but i don't think that this was one of them. but what do i know? i'm a dick

i hope that i didn't and don't come across as aggressive or an instigator. i was trying to push you to show what you know. i have spent countless times and moneys learning and am usually eager to share this with others. i'm trying to encourage the spread of accurate and helpful information. i've read all your posts and threads and am interested in your opinion on a variety of things. i support (mostly) what you've been doing on RIU. maybe we can PM or something? i get the feeling that we'll get along fine



pinner420,

are you talking about the archived thread? i read it and was encouraged by the results. its nice to see a deviation from the norm be successful. the little "experiment" he did was well recorded and i'm grateful that it has been archived. thanks for the link!

does anyone else have any great archived threads or forums? i'd be interested in these....


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## plasmargon (Nov 13, 2009)

Woa, take a chill everyone.

If people would take the time to read what I said... These are the facts. I've been doing short cycle growing since it was invented in the eighties.

Fact; yes you do save money on electricity...
Fact; the 6hr days and 12 hr nights do force the plants mature much faster. 
Fact; some plants love this application.
Fact; you will only harvest the same amount as you would have without speeding the maturity in the respect to the end of harvest being earlier.
Fact; I didn't say 12/12 for cloning I meant 24 hrs total day length as opposed to 18 hrs proposed here in this thread.
Fact; Most people aren't disciplined enough to run a 18 hr day cycle and fuck it up.
Fact; there has been no reliable timers that can do 6 on and 12 off so I figured out how to do it off a simple 7 day 10 event timer. (I do own a harvest master also)

Again if anyone is listeing, timing is 6 hr 40 mins 'ON', 12 hrs off for 9 events. 
Then the cycle starts again seemlessly.
This fits 9 days into seven days.


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## plasmargon (Nov 13, 2009)

Also, running a plant 24/7 IS harmful, causing what I call Schysophrinia to mothers kept that way for months.


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## RanTyr (Nov 14, 2009)

plasmargon said:


> Also, running a plant 24/7 IS harmful, causing what I call Schysophrinia to mothers kept that way for months.


How would a 24/7 cycle be harmful? If 24/0 has already been proven to not be harmful how would a 24/7 cycle be harmful?


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## headbandrocker (Nov 15, 2009)

Greetings
I am doing a 6/12 room as we speak and have a journal up of it on this site and have noticed similar results to 12/12-
I am interested in all that surrounds this topic of playing with the photoperiod.
This thread is for those interested in it to share so we can learn,lets not get hung up on name calling.Lets keep it movin
Sherriberry-Thanks for stoppin by and sharing your findings.

Plasmargon-I am interested in knowing if your alaskan friend was using co2 in his room.I read the harvestmaster field study which stated co2 was used,but i myself have not used it in my 6/12 run as of yet.

I had a friend who ran 5/12 with co2 and did well,I am thinking of doing a full room at 6/12 if this run goes well.
Thanks and praise


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## temunator (Nov 15, 2009)

didnt read the thread but i did something like this .... had a normal plant and 2 autoflowers in a closet .... 12/12 the autoflowers took more than 12 weeks instead of 8


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## drumbum3218 (Nov 15, 2009)

very intriguing. If I could I would grow one clone under 6/12 and another under 12/12 both using the same kind of light, side by side to compare.


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## the church man (Nov 15, 2009)

ok guys....

this is relating to the thread topic but not entirely. my plant is in flowering but is growly way too quickly. i'm going to be tying her down but it won't be enough. do you think that if i reduced the amount of light she gets that it will slow down the growth? i'm not sure what to think. i'm thinking of reducing the light to nine hours and then fifteen of dark.

let me know what you guys think

thanks....


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## headbandrocker (Nov 16, 2009)

How late in flowering are you? Have you looked into "bushmaster?"


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## mr. greenthumbs (Nov 16, 2009)

hey i had a friend who used to grow in one of those fish aquarium looking things high times always advertises.anyway he would grow some dang weed in a little over 55 days.he would start his seedlings with 24 hours of light for about a week then he would give 1 hour of light the first day,then he would add a hour everyday until he got to 24 hours.then he said he would start the count down taking off an hour everyday til he got back to no light and the plant was done.he had some dank buds.but i have had good results with18/6 veg.to 12/12 flower.i ain't changing cause of the hermification factor and good dank buds.i guess you can't grow a big plant in one of those things anyway.well good luck on all your grows.


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## the church man (Nov 16, 2009)

i'm a bit more than two weeks into flowering. she's just now showing her pistils so i'm assuming will keep growing for another month. i only have maybe ten inches vertically. i'm just gonna tie aggressively. i've also shortened the daytime just to see what happens


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## panta (Nov 16, 2009)

headbandrocker said:


> How late in flowering are you? Have you looked into "bushmaster?"


when are u gonna start this


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## headbandrocker (Nov 17, 2009)

If you want to eliminate the stretch get "bushmaster" it will stop stretch very well,and will speed up your finishing time by a few days.
I had the same problem in my 4x8 tent under 6/12 as i let my clones grow too big in the cloner and didnt have room to raise lights in the tent,the stretch was halted completly.
good luck


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