# Prop 19 Official Results Thread



## gupp (Nov 2, 2010)

Because we don't have one here yet.
Here's a link to what i think are the official results...so far 0% are in. 
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_19,_the_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2010)
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/ballot.measures/#
edit:fixed url


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## Serapis (Nov 2, 2010)

"ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_19,_the_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2010)"

For some reason, the last parenthesis is not part of the URL.... if you get a broken link message, add a closing parenth ) to the end of the url.

because it is still early in Cali, no results are in as of yet.


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## Micromaster (Nov 2, 2010)

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/ballot-measures/


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## gupp (Nov 2, 2010)

other places- arizona http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Arizona_Medical_Marijuana_Question,_Proposition_203,_2010
oregon- http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Oregon_Regulated_Medical_Marijuana_Supply_System_Act,_Measure_74_(2010)
south dakota - http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/South_Dakota_Medical_Marijuana_Act,_Initiated_Measure_13_(2010)


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

I really don't like the chances of prop 19 passing right now. Not good at all.


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## deprave (Nov 2, 2010)

another one from the feds: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/individual/#CAI01


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## deprave (Nov 2, 2010)

is that sarcasm dan?


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## T.H.Cammo (Nov 2, 2010)

Here it is, almost 4pm (West Coast time), and still no exit poll results? I guess we have to wait for the "Evening News" to find out what the hell happened!


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2010/11/youth-vote-not-there-for-marij.html

Not looking good, seems the young voters are not coming out in the numbers needed and the older voters are voting no..... Damn u californians and all you medi growers voting No cuz ur to damn greedy and selfish!


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## gupp (Nov 2, 2010)

Young people wouldn't come out if they were handing out solid gold.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

deprave said:


> is that sarcasm dan?


Not at all. I'm not saying it for sure won't pass, I just don't like the odds at this point. I also think Cooley is going to be the next attorney general. This could be a disastrous day for everyone.


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## gupp (Nov 2, 2010)

SikSol said:


> http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2010/11/youth-vote-not-there-for-marij.html
> 
> Not looking good, seems the young voters are not coming out in the numbers needed and the older voters are voting no..... Damn u californians and all you medi growers voting No cuz ur to damn greedy and selfish!


Exit polls should not be trusted, either.


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## desert dude (Nov 2, 2010)

Here is the web site for the official ballot results for CA, county by county. Just select your county in the drop down box at the upper left. No results will be posted till the polling places are closed at 8:00PM.

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/ballot-measures/county/kern


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## growone (Nov 2, 2010)

here's a quick snapshot, not trying to make more out of this than it is, just a bit of good prop 19 info

From the Yes on 19 campaign itself, their on-the-ground troops are reporting &quot;youth turnout is so high that the polling location at San Diego State University has completely run out of provisional ballots. We're hearing that it will take 3 or 4 more hours to re-stock the ballots there.&quot;


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## beardo (Nov 2, 2010)

runninupinya said:


> not good news.


 Prop 19 is winning?


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## runninupinya (Nov 2, 2010)

no, fox news is reporting that pro-marijuana proposition 19 has been defeated


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## growone (Nov 2, 2010)

no results yet that i can see


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

How the hell can they report its been defeated? by exit polls? those are a joke..... There is no possible way they can know that already, hell they have only counted 1% of the ballots so far in cali.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

*From twitter: Latest Results for Attorney General: Steve Cooley: 49%; Kamala D. Harris: 43% (7% in)*


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## desert dude (Nov 2, 2010)

Right now, the secretary of state web site shows P19 losing 45% to 55%


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

Doesnt matter really votes are fixed, there are so many disqualifing factors to make your vote void like back taxes, DMV fees, etc.. etc... It's a joke.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

desert dude said:


> Right now, the secretary of state web site shows P19 losing 45% to 55%


Only Napa has turned in results so far I think. So that's good. Sample size is too small to really prove anything. But it looks like this could be bad.


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

CNN has it losing 49% to 51% still very close!


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

thats just with only sacremento area turned in.


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## desert dude (Nov 2, 2010)

Unfortunately the CA secretary of state web site is down, or maybe just bombarded with requests and unable to keep up, so I just got that one snapshot about ten minutes ago.


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

use this site from CNN its good to go!!

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/individual/#CAI01


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## Needofweed (Nov 2, 2010)

58%no 
42%yes
1% reporting
8:30pm


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## nathenking (Nov 2, 2010)

i love the fact that trinity&shasta county land slided a NO vote... I LOVE IT!!!! same will be with humboldt and mendo aswell


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Nov 2, 2010)

South Dakota said No....Arizona said No....Doesn't look good for MJ this year.


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

Everyone is coming in with different % so far.... I just dont get all you that are voted No.... the one and only reason you would is your a medi grower or illegal grower that stands to loose money... greed and selfish.. dont say its cuz 19 is flawed because that can easily be fixed once it passed with admendments and other bills. Lets not turn this into another one of those pissing match threads over the issue its all said and done now... Whats sad is if 19 fails its not due to those that dont even full with weed its people like ya'll.. sad sad...


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## beardo (Nov 2, 2010)

ENDLSCYCLE said:


> South Dakota said No....Arizona said No....Doesn't look good for MJ this year.


I was hoping AZ would pass


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## quartergoat (Nov 2, 2010)

Arizona isn't done yet, 25% in, 49/51% split.


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## tardis (Nov 2, 2010)

ENDLSCYCLE said:


> South Dakota said No....Arizona said No....Doesn't look good for MJ this year.


Doesn't look good for MJ for the next 40 years.


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

Yep.... nuttin good for MJ is gonna happen till all these retards die off.


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## tardis (Nov 2, 2010)

SikSol said:


> Everyone is coming in with different % so far.... I just dont get all you that are voted No.... the one and only reason you would is your a medi grower or illegal grower that stands to loose money... greed and selfish.. dont say its cuz 19 is flawed because that can easily be fixed once it passed with admendments and other bills. Lets not turn this into another one of those pissing match threads over the issue its all said and done now... Whats sad is if 19 fails its not due to those that dont even full with weed its people like ya'll.. sad sad...


While I agree with you, you gotta just get along after no matter who wins. Everyone knew this vote was instrumental to the future of MJ in our lifetime, it will not be on the ballot again next year or years after, this is it. The Feds will say this proves they need to crack down on all growers especially medical growers. Its a terrible day for anybody who wanted to live longer by useing marijuana instead of liver destroying drugs.


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## tardis (Nov 2, 2010)

Not trying to be Negative... but I have a feeling because of this No the Federal Government is going to go in and imprison all people associated with MMJ Dispensaries. This no prevents any protection saying the peopel will it in the state. Lots of sick people going to be going to jail to keep prisons being paid by tax dollars to fill the economic hole in our country. I know negative, but its still true.

on a non MMJ note, we are also going to go to war with Iran within 3 months because nobody wants to bring soldiers home and make the unemployment % go up, so they are better used at war or dead for the benefit of politicians.....

Oh America, you used to be so hot, but now you are old and fat and wheezing.... What have the republicans and democrats done to my country I love?


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## tardis (Nov 2, 2010)

These dispensary owners will probly be allowed 20 years off their federal sentences if they give all information they know on the growers who supplied them.... That No just fuct a lot of people who voted no...


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## quartergoat (Nov 2, 2010)

Growers that voted "no" have a choo choo train of karma coming named Tyrone


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## fatfarmer (Nov 2, 2010)

Iam going to just sit and burn a fat 1#. See ya after the last word! Peace and Pray.


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

establishment wins again.... keep going along with what big brother wants you to ya pawns gonna be great with the mighty green dollar you hold so dear is worthless, Oh wAit.. it is worthless already.


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## kudaross (Nov 2, 2010)

With 8% of precincts reporting, why are you guys throwing in the towel? I know it doesn't look good, but it seriously is anyones game.


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## SCbudboy (Nov 2, 2010)

Seriously. It not looking well for Prop 19....at all
but only 28% of the precincts have voted. 
It still could be a short ride to marijuana legalization


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## SCbudboy (Nov 2, 2010)

Now i will concede to defeat
With over 50% of the precincts posting results
and 56% No +44% yes.
Im sad to say my friends.... Its not legal(i know i teared up too)
I think its safe to say that im not waiting around for it to be legalized, im gonna become a patient hahahah


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

where do you get 50% reported? Im only seeing like 14% on every site I check.


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## mr2shim (Nov 2, 2010)

SikSol said:


> where do you get 50% reported? Im only seeing like 14% on every site I check.


Probably fixed ... oh wait I mean fox news.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/individual/#CAI01

Earlier in the night they said the Republicans had 240 house seats, now it's down to 202.


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## scotchtape51 (Nov 2, 2010)

A sad day

Proposition 19 (Marijuana Legalization) Result Votes Percentage d *No* *911,674* *54.9%* Yes 750,650 45.1% *Total votes* *1,662,324* *100.00%* Voter turnout %


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## mr2shim (Nov 2, 2010)

scotchtape51 said:


> A sad day
> 
> Proposition 19 (Marijuana Legalization) Result Votes Percentage d *No* *911,674* *54.9%* Yes 750,650 45.1% *Total votes* *1,662,324* *100.00%* Voter turnout %


Again, It's really too early to jump the gun on it. Calm down, go to sleep, wake up in the morning and see how it came out.


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## Spoc (Nov 2, 2010)

I'm not calling it a defeat yet..only 15 percent of precincts reporting. Where the hell are you gettin your figures?


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## scotchtape51 (Nov 2, 2010)

going to sleep right now actually, will check the results after brongch( Breakfast,lunch, bong takes place around 11 AM)


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## scotchtape51 (Nov 2, 2010)

Spoc said:


> I'm not calling it a defeat yet..only 15 pecent of precincts reporting. Where the hell are you gettin your figures?


http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_19,_the_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2010)


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## beardo (Nov 2, 2010)

[youtube]5CAU2k1Xw9U[/youtube]


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## Spoc (Nov 2, 2010)

This has got to be live somewhere in CA.. I envy you bastards..Connecticut shot down MMJ not too long ago.


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## wiseguy316 (Nov 2, 2010)

scotchtape51 said:


> http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_19,_the_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2010)


cnn is already to 1,491,393 no,,so your site is behind.


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## SikSol (Nov 2, 2010)

Well Imma chock this up as a loss... no way my state is gonna go medi anytime soon hopefully ohio will though and Ill jump across the river.


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## Firstwave (Nov 2, 2010)

Looking like people just wanna keep it illegal to keep it high priced...way to go people of Cali NOT ...lol Its funny that the Gov wants it to stay illegal and now the people want it that way as well


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## Hayduke (Nov 2, 2010)

No we wanted to keep it as legal as it is...rather than make it MORE illegal for some and only slightly more legal for hobby growers.


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## Needofweed (Nov 2, 2010)

long live democracy


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## quartergoat (Nov 2, 2010)

Hayduke said:


> No we wanted to keep it as legal as it is...rather than make it MORE illegal for some and only slightly more legal for hobby growers.


It was soo much bigger then that. The whole world was watching and how great it would have been to see the revenu pull you people out of the hole.


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## tardis (Nov 2, 2010)

SikSol said:


> Well Imma chock this up as a loss... no way my state is gonna go medi anytime soon hopefully ohio will though and Ill jump across the river.


I got a feeling the Feds are now gonna pull the plug on Medical because of how they will interpret these numbers.


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## tardis (Nov 2, 2010)

quartergoat said:


> It was soo much bigger then that. The whole world was watching and how great it would have been to see the revenu pull you people out of the hole.


My fellow americans today don't look at the big picture anymore.


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## quartergoat (Nov 2, 2010)

tardis said:


> I got a feeling the Feds are now gonna pull the plug on Medical because of how they will interpret these numbers.


Not just feds, watch what happens in NM.


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## beardo (Nov 2, 2010)

tardis said:


> I got a feeling the Feds are now gonna pull the plug on Medical because of how they will interpret these numbers.


 That is actually my only problem with my no vote, it will be misinterpreted that we are against marijuana-when we were against a bad prop. the media potrayed prop 19 as marijuana legalization- now people think we have voted against legalization. now people think marijuana is illegal because 19 lost the guy who saw you smoke a joint last week figured it was medical and allowed but tomorrow might think it is illegal because 19 lost. the D.A.s and city councils could also view this as a sign the public is anti marijuana and lead to further prosocution of marijuana users


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## nathenking (Nov 2, 2010)

beardo said:


> That is actually my only problem with my no vote, it will be misinterpreted that we are against marijuana-when we were against a bad prop. the media potrayed prop 19 as marijuana legalization- now people think we have voted against legalization. now people think marijuana is illegal because 19 lost the guy who saw you smoke a joint last week figured it was medical and allowed but tomorrow might think it is illegal because 19 lost. the D.A.s and city councils could also view this as a sign the public is anti marijuana and lead to further prosocution of marijuana users


At least MMJ has been around for 14 years.... If you have/can get your med card... people in CA should not worry at all about this vote... i actually thought it would be closer than it is/was... how bout you beardo...


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

SikSol said:


> Doesnt matter really votes are fixed, there are so many disqualifing factors to make your vote void like back taxes, DMV fees, etc.. etc... It's a joke.


It actually does matter. And while vote fixing does happen, no, not all votes are fixed. A "why bother voting" attitude is quite harmful. It does matter.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

quartergoat said:


> Growers that voted "no" have a choo choo train of karma coming named Tyrone


Actually it's name is Steve Cooley


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

kudaross said:


> With 8% of precincts reporting, why are you guys throwing in the towel? I know it doesn't look good, but it seriously is anyones game.


Not passing in LA + Sacto = it fails. It's over.


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## beardo (Nov 2, 2010)

nathenking said:


> At least MMJ has been around for 14 years.... If you have/can get your med card... people in CA should not worry at all about this vote... i actually thought it would be closer than it is/was... how bout you beardo...


Shasta was a heavy No, I think it was kind of close I knew it would be, I think without some outspoken marijuana advocates against it it probably would have passed, when I started explaining to people I know that I was against 19 they thought I was crazy by the time we were done talking about it they were votin NO also-they tried to sell it as legalization, I actually think we might be able to get a simple bill that actually legalizes marijuana passes, you would lose the conservitive buisness vote but gain many votes that were against 19 because of its flaws.


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## Hayduke (Nov 2, 2010)

quartergoat said:


> It was soo much bigger then that. The whole world was watching and how great it would have been to see the revenu pull you people out of the hole.


A good reason to get it right (this was NOT legalization!). No fees were mandated to schools, public services or the general fund. The fees would fund the few "regulatory" jobs that would be created...the bureaucracy is self fulfilling.


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## nathenking (Nov 2, 2010)

beardo said:


> Shasta was a heavy No, I think it was kind of close I knew it would be, I think without some outspoken marijuana advocates against it it probably would have passed, when I started explaining to people I know that I was against 19 they thought I was crazy by the time we were done talking about it they were votin NO also-they tried to sell it as legalization, I actually think we might be able to get a simple bill that actually legalizes marijuana passes, you would lose the conservitive buisness vote but gain many votes that were against 19 because of its flaws.


Exactly.... that is what you and I have been saying for months now... now we can get down to brass tacks and get a REAL bill going...


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## TokinPodPilot (Nov 2, 2010)

quartergoat said:


> Growers that voted "no" have a choo choo train of karma coming named Tyrone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cooley being elected to office has nothing to do with Prop. 19. He is a disaster regardless of whether Prop. 19 had passed or not.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

TokinPodPilot said:


> Cooley being elected to office has nothing to do with Prop. 19. He is a disaster regardless of whether Prop. 19 had passed or not.


This disaster might become a reality. Still too close to call but it looks bad. He's going to misinterpret the no on prop 19 vote to mean he has a mandate to go after all cannabis related activities. 

http://www.sfgate.com/election-results/


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## beardo (Nov 2, 2010)

nathenking said:


> Exactly.... that is what you and I have been saying for months now... now we can get down to brass tacks and get a REAL bill going...


 If we will elect 'moonbeam' twice we can get 51% to vote for weed. I would like to see prop 420 'no plant species to be regulated by law' then maybe something about no chemical processing. and were good. keep it simple.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

I may have spoken too soon. The results I posted appear to be inaccurate if you break them down by county.


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## desert dude (Nov 2, 2010)

beardo said:


> If we will elect 'moonbeam' twice we can get 51% to vote for weed. I would like to see prop 420 'no plant species to be regulated by law' then maybe something about no chemical processing. and were good. keep it simple.


If you can get a legalization initiative on the 2012 ballot I will vote for it. I don't see that happening, though. An initiative to end medical marijuana is more likely. We have missed any chance of ending the drug war for at least a generation.


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## nathenking (Nov 2, 2010)

desert dude said:


> If you can get a legalization initiative on the 2012 ballot I will vote for it. I don't see that happening, though. An initiative to end medical marijuana is more likely. We have missed any chance of ending the drug war for at least a generation.


Yeah right DD... you just dont get it... if this bill was written for the PEOPLE it would have passed, it was NOT... colorado already has a legalize it 2012 campaign started bro.... its not DOOMSDAy...


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## Dan Kone (Nov 2, 2010)

desert dude said:


> If you can get a legalization initiative on the 2012 ballot I will vote for it. I don't see that happening, though. An initiative to end medical marijuana is more likely. We have missed any chance of ending the drug war for at least a generation.


I fully support the 2012 ballot measure and I think it's better written than prop 19. But I think we may have just blown our one shot at this....


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## desert dude (Nov 2, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> I fully support the 2012 ballot measure and I think it's better written than prop 19. But I think we may have just blown our one shot at this....


The last legalization initiative was in 1972, so maybe my grand kids will get the next shot at it.


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## ruopaV (Nov 3, 2010)

I don't understand why people who support the thought of legal MJ vote against Prop 19 -- its shitty, but its a start. If this would have passed you could have made amendments to it (to make it more 'for the people'), but now the quest for MJ legality is all but done -- maybe somewhere else will make a run at it in a few years and fail -- if the feds even allow it.

Capitalism > Freedom


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## mistaphuck (Nov 3, 2010)

well at least here soon there wont be much if any "what do you think about prop 19" threads, those were getting on my nerves..


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## Dan Kone (Nov 3, 2010)

nathenking said:


> its not DOOMSDAy...


Yeah it is. No chance in hell an even more liberal legalization bill with less economic incentives passes. The humboldt vote isn't worth what you think it is. That's a very small portion of voters. 

If I had to guess, I'd say we are waiting another 20 years....


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## Dan Kone (Nov 3, 2010)

desert dude said:


> The last legalization initiative was in 1972, so maybe my grand kids will get the next shot at it.


Public opinion is going in our direction so I don't think it'll be that long. I seriously doubt it's going to happen in the next decade though... There is not going to be a legalization bill more palatable to non-smokers than prop 19. People are deluding themselves by thinking prop 19 wasn't liberal enough. Anything law without taxes, regulations, and protection from minors will fail a lot worse than this.


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## Kindwoman (Nov 3, 2010)

desert dude said:


> The last legalization initiative was in 1972, so maybe my grand kids will get the next shot at it.


That initiative was the reason I registered as a voter for the first time.


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## Coals (Nov 3, 2010)

I highly doubt there will ever be another chance. The anti legalization corner just won a MAJOR victory. 

The US is approaching 12% incarceration of their population. The private prison industry is on fire and growing exponentially. Prisoners are customers to these people and eveyone knows the backbone of a succesful business is return customers! 

The DEA is receiving more funding than at any point in its history. 

Steve Cooley is a radical anti MJ nut ball. 

Big Pharma has medical MJ in its sights and is spending millions anually to lobby for tougher laws. 

All of these groups just won a major victory and will be pouring it on.

I hear a lot of "oh well, if you dont have yer card yer a tard" shit. Being allowed to smoke MJ because you have a hang nail is not the answer to prohibition! The medical MJ situation in Cali is a joke, the world knows it and the government will be reigning it in........soon.


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## nathenking (Nov 3, 2010)

*There def wont be another one with attitudes like that... At first if you dont succeed.... the world is not ending.... colorado already has a legalize it 2012 camp going.... people are already moving on...*


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## nathenking (Nov 3, 2010)

here is the link....

http://facethestate.com/by-the-way/19596-colorados-pot-legalization-campaign-kick-wednesday


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## dannydakota (Nov 3, 2010)

Good job, Cali 

West coast smokers must love that bitter taste of defeat. Let something like this up for vote on the East coast, we'll show you how it's done.


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## mr2shim (Nov 3, 2010)

nathenking said:


> here is the link....
> 
> http://facethestate.com/by-the-way/19596-colorados-pot-legalization-campaign-kick-wednesday


Well, I wish them the best. I hope they're smarter than the folks in Cali. Arizona's MMJ bill looks like it got show down. Bad day for marijuana. Probably for the better, don't need another state like Cali, filled with people who vote against legalization but continue to abuse the MMJ system.


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## tardis (Nov 3, 2010)

Coals said:


> I highly doubt there will ever be another chance. The anti legalization corner just won a MAJOR victory.
> 
> The US is approaching 12% incarceration of their population. The private prison industry is on fire and growing exponentially. Prisoners are customers to these people and eveyone knows the backbone of a succesful business is return customers!
> 
> ...


Yup, I would not want to be a humbolt grower right now given the Federal Government sees this as a sign that the people of california want pot growers and their pot eradicated. Prepare for poison drops that only effect bud to be dropped from helecopters liek they do in Hawaii.


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## tardis (Nov 3, 2010)

I don't understand why the People of California think this will make the ballot again? As far as the Government is concerned the answer has been given for this generation, NO Marijuana.

Instead of tax dollars helping California's Economy it will be like they do with Hawaii and the Feds will give money to California to eradicate growing pot onprivate property. Dont say it can happen as it DOES happen here several times a year. Cali can make a lot of money with a helecopter eradication program over humbold and mendicino. I think thats where they will look for answers.. then again i'm just pessimisitic about this entire election, no good came of anybody voted in.


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## dannydakota (Nov 3, 2010)

tardis said:


> I don't understand why the People of California think this will make the ballot again? As far as the Government is concerned the answer has been given for this generation, NO Marijuana.


That's what really got me. This is probably going to be used as a reference for possible movements in the future. Well, at least Cali got enough initiative to get it up there. Hopefully other states will try... we just need one to get it all started.


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## 1gamma45 (Nov 3, 2010)

I said it once and I will say it again.


You had your chance and you cut your throat. You fucked yourself cause you were greedy little POS. This is the USA not burger king. You cant have it your way. This was your shot and you blew it huge. 

g/j dumbasses. How about this leave a note for your kids kids kids so when they get the next chance they wont make the same selfish dumbass mistakes.


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## Needofweed (Nov 3, 2010)

haha fuck prop 19 Im glad that piece of shit prop failed.Some fucking idiots would suck dick just to smoke weed legaly. ha fucking ha bitches.


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## purple blues (Nov 3, 2010)

fuckin awesome! yeah!....NOT...question....when are we going to stop supporting drug dealers an start supporting schools?


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## PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 (Nov 3, 2010)

Thank Your "Christian Voters",,,Weed is still "Evil",,,and the "Preachers are Praising God"...For saving them!!!!


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## Dan Kone (Nov 3, 2010)

dannydakota said:


> West coast smokers must love that bitter taste of defeat. Let something like this up for vote on the East coast, we'll show you how it's done.


Right on. I wish you the best. I'll be rooting for you.


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## purple blues (Nov 3, 2010)

omg! could u imagine if the devil weed was legal! it'd be anarchy! raping and pillaging all over madness i tell ya!


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## veggiegardener (Nov 3, 2010)

purple blues said:


> fuckin awesome! yeah!....NOT...question....when are we going to stop supporting drug dealers an start supporting schools?


Had P19 passed, the taxes wouldn't have even covered enforcement.

It would have ended up being a net loss.

If the fees and taxes were punitive(likely), it would have merely encouraged the Black market to continue. An even greater loss of revenue as enforcement costs would increase even more.


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## tc1 (Nov 3, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Had P19 passed, the taxes wouldn't have even covered enforcement.
> 
> It would have ended up being a net loss.
> 
> If the fees and taxes were punitive(likely), it would have merely encouraged the Black market to continue. An even greater loss of revenue as enforcement costs would increase even more.


Yes, because reducing the resources wasted on marijuana prosecutions ... and the taxing of a new product would obviously increase debt. You have got to be shitting me.

And because people would have to pay taxes, the black market would continue. Sorta like all those Alcohol, Candy, Gasoline, and Corn cartels ... Don't want to run into one of those Twizzler slingers in a dark ally way for sure.


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## tardis (Nov 3, 2010)

dannydakota said:


> That's what really got me. This is probably going to be used as a reference for possible movements in the future. Well, at least Cali got enough initiative to get it up there. Hopefully other states will try... we just need one to get it all started.


No politician or organization will associate themselves with a bill on marijuana in the future because its already shown to fail. They might even say "Well the growers were against it" and they will just say "Well they probly will switch against it and ruin it again" thus making marijuana taboo from now on in politics... no more Zack Galficnacus lighitng upon tv again.


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## tardis (Nov 3, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Had P19 passed, the taxes wouldn't have even covered enforcement.
> 
> It would have ended up being a net loss.
> 
> If the fees and taxes were punitive(likely), it would have merely encouraged the Black market to continue. An even greater loss of revenue as enforcement costs would increase even more.


Tell that tot he guy who goes away to prison losing his kids and job sometime next week over weed.


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## tardis (Nov 3, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Yes, because reducing the resources wasted on marijuana prosecutions ... and the taxing of a new product would obviously increase debt. You have got to be shitting me.
> 
> And because people would have to pay taxes, the black market would continue. Sorta like all those Alcohol, Candy, Gasoline, and Corn cartels ... Don't want to run into one of those Twizzler slingers in a dark ally way for sure.


Bro, I know a guy who sells amazing red twizzlers cheap because there is no tax on the black market! i'll hook you up


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## Hayduke (Nov 3, 2010)

tc1 said:


> Yes, because reducing the resources wasted on marijuana prosecutions ... and the taxing of a new product would obviously increase debt. You have got to be shitting me.
> 
> And because people would have to pay taxes, the black market would continue. Sorta like all those Alcohol, Candy, Gasoline, and Corn cartels ... Don't want to run into one of those Twizzler slingers in a dark ally way for sure.


Another flaw of 19...it did NOT mandate any tax revenue to go to schools or the general fund. It allowed the local municipality to set the tax and use it for associated costs...like the new Marijuana Code Enforcement Officer who will make sure that your grow is up to all the new codes the city will impose as well as making sure you are not sticking out over the lines.

And Beardo is right...if they could actually collect enough for there to be a surplus the prices would keep the black market alive...Get this...Possibly making cheap mexi schwag more appealing and...wait for it...INCREASING THE DRUG CARTELS!!!!! What the hell do you think the kids are gonna smoke??? Cuz their buddy who graduated last year sure as hell is not gonna risk becoming somebody's new girl friend just to smoke out their buddy...so the kids will buy from the gangsters, who I am told, are supporting the murderous drug cartels with all the Mexi Schwag that they currently sell in Cali...This will INCREASE the amount of Mexi smoked (cuz kids don't smoke schwag...crack whores like my ex-wife do!)


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## tc1 (Nov 3, 2010)

So when alcohol prohibition was repealed ... people continued buying bootleg liquor because it was tax free? 
Where may I ask, do you buy your tax free beer?

I mean seriously .... When you lawfully allow a commodity, the supply is increased and prices are driven down. To the point where it is no longer a viable option for criminals to fund their activities because there simply is not enough money in it.

If Cali bud became legal you HONESTLY want people to believe that more people would smoke mexi brick weed? LOL Well gee ... guess we better not ever end marijuana prohibition. Wouldn't want that mexi brick weed to spread all across the country funding cartels. We have a hard enough time dealing with the alcohol mobsters who make a living selling tax free beer, whiskey, and wine.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 3, 2010)

tardis said:


> Tell that tot he guy who goes away to prison losing his kids and job sometime next week over weed.


Dude, I came within a hair of being that guy, even though _we were legal under P215!_

Why do you think we religiously adhere to the current rules? And really hate anything that will change those rules without a LOT of proof that it won't change things for the worse.

Grow up.


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## Hayduke (Nov 3, 2010)

tc1 said:


> So when alcohol prohibition was repealed ... people continued buying bootleg liquor because it was tax free?
> Where may I ask, do you buy your tax free beer?
> 
> I mean seriously .... When you lawfully allow a commodity, the supply is increased and prices are driven down. To the point where it is no longer a viable option for criminals to fund their activities because there simply is not enough money in it.
> ...


Well...about the beer...before it started giving me a headache with 1 pint...I brewed my own.

Now get this...Home brewing beer, although practiced by renegades like us, was illegal until 1979 when the _evil_ Jimmy Carter HAD TO FIX THE 21ST AMENDMENT!!!! because although it made home wine making legal, beer was mysteriously left out and therefore illegal. Remember the saying about not knowing history and being doomed to repeat it...get it right the first time!

The rest of your post shows that you read my post that you are referring to, as closely as you read the Proposition to Regulate, Eliminate or Tax Marijuana


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## beardo (Nov 3, 2010)

tardis said:


> Bro, I know a guy who sells amazing red twizzlers cheap because there is no tax on the black market! i'll hook you up


 Yeah their actually are a bunch of people slangin black market twizzlers and kitkats they got m&m's to- if you were in Cali or knew anything about whats going on out here you would've realized that


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## beardo (Nov 3, 2010)

tc1 said:


> So when alcohol prohibition was repealed ... people continued buying bootleg liquor because it was tax free?
> Where may I ask, do you buy your tax free beer?
> 
> I mean seriously .... When you lawfully allow a commodity, the supply is increased and prices are driven down. To the point where it is no longer a viable option for criminals to fund their activities because there simply is not enough money in it.
> ...


 Same place you get bootlegged cigaretts-Cali, you see our government has allowed our country to be invaded and for now the invading forces are selling illegal marlboros - bootlegged liquor and clothes


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## Serapis (Nov 3, 2010)

Hayduke said:


> And Beardo is right...if they could actually collect enough for there to be a surplus the prices would keep the black market alive...Get this...Possibly making cheap mexi schwag more appealing and...wait for it...INCREASING THE DRUG CARTELS!!!!! What the hell do you think the kids are gonna smoke??? Cuz their buddy who graduated last year sure as hell is not gonna risk becoming somebody's new girl friend just to smoke out their buddy...so the kids will buy from the gangsters,


Now look at that quote..... Any reasonable person has to ask, how your side can come up with some of the bizzare explanations that you do to support your stance against 19. Scare tactics and smearing fear about with unrealistic bantor like this.....

Where are the kids gonna get theirs? Are you kidding me? With the number of 25' gardens popping up all over the place? Give me a break.... ain't no one gonna be buying Mexican schwag when you have grow ops all over the state. Did you really type that mexican buying kid crap with a straight face?


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## beardo (Nov 3, 2010)

beardo said:


> Yeah their actually are a bunch of people slangin black market twizzlers and kitkats they got m&m's to- if you were in Cali or knew anything about whats going on out here you would've realized that





beardo said:


> Same place you get bootlegged cigaretts-Cali, you see our government has allowed our country to be invaded and for now the invading forces are selling illegal marlboros - bootlegged liquor and clothes


 I didn't think you would have much to say once i pointed that out...i'm sure other people out here can verify that this is a lagit problem,, you get harassed on busses trains even at atm's and inside fast food resturants about buying candy


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## TreeOfLiberty (Nov 3, 2010)

As far as taxes go, does anyone think a legalization bill would pass in any state if it had a straight out NO TAX STRINGS ATTACHED written into it ? I don't see that type of legalization bill ever happening. 

I bet there were so many dispensary owners and caregivers holding their breath and praying Prop 19 wouldn't pass because they knew it would be the end of $350-$400 ounces if it did. 

No seller of MMJ will ever support any legalization bill anyway, even if it didn't have any taxes attached to it, because it would ruin their overly excessive prices. 

I bet it would sting like a bitch for MMJ sellers, seeing dispensary after dispensary shut down because the average ounce price of A+ prime herb dropped to $75 because of a legalization bill passing, hell...maybe even less than that. California has an estimated population of 37 million , could you imagine if 1 out of every 10 Californians had their own legal grow ? damn !!! That would be 3,700,000 grow rooms !!! Hell yeah ...prices would drop like a rock and no dispensary or caregiver wants to see this no matter what.

I'm just thinking about the people, and their freedom. I have my own MMJ closet grow in Colorado and my 250 HPS pulls me a modest 4 ounces every 60 days. Just like most every household has a TV in their house, I wish they also had a garden in their closet too


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## beardo (Nov 3, 2010)

TreeOfLiberty said:


> As far as taxes go, does anyone think a legalization bill would pass in any state if it had a straight out NO TAX STRINGS ATTACHED written into it ? I don't see that type of legalization bill ever happening.


 It is a voter inititive we need 51% and it passes, you can put whatever on the ballot- If they would keep it real simple and it made sense it would pass.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 4, 2010)

Simple, and avoiding loopholes for the greed heads.

A historical note, sorta.

My great grandfather had the only legal still in Lodi, California during Prohibition.

He was allowed to make brandy for my great grandmother who had a very bad heart, based on her doctor's recommendation.

During the Great War(WW1), my great uncles fought in Europe, leaving my teenage grandmother to tend the still, when her dad, a railroad line boss, was away from home.

She used to tell us stories of how the Mayor and Police Chief would often come by the house to check on the quality of the medicine.

Not much new, in this old world.


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## nathenking (Nov 4, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Simple, and avoiding loopholes for the greed heads.
> 
> A historical note, sorta.
> 
> ...


Awesome story.... i love personal history like that... Its so intereresting VG...


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## Hayduke (Nov 4, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Now look at that quote..... Any reasonable person has to ask, how your side can come up with some of the bizzare explanations that you do to support your stance against 19. Scare tactics and smearing fear about with unrealistic bantor like this.....
> 
> Where are the kids gonna get theirs? Are you kidding me? With the number of 25' gardens popping up all over the place? Give me a break.... ain't no one gonna be buying Mexican schwag when you have grow ops all over the state. Did you really type that mexican buying kid crap with a straight face?


Well my tongue was a bit in my cheek...but I was trying to make a point about the crimes created with regards to the under 21 crowd. It's not like they will not get buds (ecstasy is both popular and illegal)...but they sure as hell are not gonna get it from one of the token gardens...

And out-of-staters have been trying to spin Mexico's drug cartel problem as more than the diversion that it is with regards to MJ in California...it just is not a big issue (heroin and meth are a different story)...They were saying things like "prop 19 will crush the illegal drug cartels!"... when as I pointed out...It MIGHT just increase their business with all the prohibition and willy-nilly taxes...certainly no less plausible or fantastic.

Does not really matter...all those years of hearing that annoying "Hooked on Phonics worked for me" radio commercials seemed to have paid off with an increase in literacy rates among the now voting age pot smoker/farmer/activist/dude...well at least those in California

And my grandfather used to tell stories about how during prohibition families were allowed 2 cans of malt/month for "bread making" and that most folks used that to brew a batch of home brew...and how the local pastor would make his rounds...they would drink out of the empty malt cans.

Then the same grandfather, while at college, passed out on the couch of the frat house after a night of drinking "bath tub gin"...while passed out, another frat brother came home and took his coat off, throwing it on the couch (not seeing grandpa)...when he awoke and could not see...for a moment thought he had gone blind from the gin!

Anyway...glad I could leave you scratchin' your head...I suppose it is good for you.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 4, 2010)

Never heard about the malt, but my family have lived in wine country for well over a century.

Ever had wine made from raisins?

Thick as syrup, and about 25% alcohol.


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## tardis (Nov 4, 2010)

beardo said:


> Yeah their actually are a bunch of people slangin black market twizzlers and kitkats they got m&m's to- if you were in Cali or knew anything about whats going on out here you would've realized that


I dunno man, twizzlers are one thing, but dealers selling M&Ms and Kitkats are really sketchy people.


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## tardis (Nov 4, 2010)

TreeOfLiberty said:


> As far as taxes go, does anyone think a legalization bill would pass in any state if it had a straight out NO TAX STRINGS ATTACHED written into it ? I don't see that type of legalization bill ever happening.
> 
> I bet there were so many dispensary owners and caregivers holding their breath and praying Prop 19 wouldn't pass because they knew it would be the end of $350-$400 ounces if it did.
> 
> ...


Is it OK if instead of thinking of the poor dispensary owner, i instead think of the poor elderly woman dying of cancer who can't afford marijuana so instead has to take the semicovered painkillers that will end her life as a member of society forever?

I would rather this women got affordable and least harmful medicine, aka cannabis. I think its more important for the dying to find help then for the business man to profit off them. Sure profits are great, but don't leech off the poor and dying give them their due too.

Also I don't think smokers should have to deal with price fixing. If you had to deal with price fixing for anything else, you'd be mad about it if you had to pay for it regularly.


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## TreeOfLiberty (Nov 5, 2010)

tardis said:


> Is it OK if instead of thinking of the poor dispensary owner, i instead think of the poor elderly woman dying of cancer who can't afford marijuana so instead has to take the semicovered painkillers that will end her life as a member of society forever?
> 
> I would rather this women got affordable and least harmful medicine, aka cannabis. I think its more important for the dying to find help then for the business man to profit off them. Sure profits are great, but don't leech off the poor and dying give them their due too.
> 
> Also I don't think smokers should have to deal with price fixing. If you had to deal with price fixing for anything else, you'd be mad about it if you had to pay for it regularly.


I hate the dispensaries , because of their greed. They've had a cash cow going now and they don't want anything to stop their extreme profiteering off of MMJ. It's the same here in Colorado where I'm at. I moved from Georgia to Colorado because I was tired of chancing my closet grow on getting found out, Georgia is one of the worst states to get busted for growing and they'll probably be one of the last states to have any type of legalization or even any MMJ bill. 

I got my MMJ recommendation on chronic back pain, 7 bulging disc with gross stenosis , both knees have torn meniscus also. I couldn't afford the expensive opiate pain pills and seeing a pain doctor every 2 months at $225 per visit , I done that in Georgia from 2003 to 2007, started growing for myself in 2007 and saving up with a plan to move to Colorado, which I done in 2009. With an average price of $350 an ounce at the dispensaries and I go through 2 ounces a month...if I didn't know how to grow that would cost me $700 a month that I couldn't afford, hell ...I paid less than that when I was seeing a pain doctor every 2 months and getting my Methadone scripts filled every 30 days back in Georgia.

I too think about all the people on fixed incomes, the ones that need herb for ailments but the one's that just don't have a green thumb or either they live in a non-MMJ state and aren't in a position to move to a MMJ state like I did. I got my MMJ recommendation last year in Colorado Springs from a doctor that was in with a dispensary and they got pissed with me that after I got my recommendation that I told them I was growing my own and not buying their over-priced MMJ. It's big business to them and the dispensaries don't ever want to see herb legalized, though they might say different, they know legalization will fuck their income up. Legalization would drop prices big time. 

I also think about the prisons, the people that get busted for possession or cultivating, then the bullshit criminal records from that which prevent getting good jobs. No dispensary owner in California or Colorado gives 2 shits about anyone in Texas or Florida or any other non-MMJ state that gets the judicial hammer on some disabled person who's got a closet grow for their ailment.

All it would take is for just ONE STATE, to legalize , and then other states would start passing similar legalization bills. It's going to eventually happen, but you will always have the crowd that's gonna bitch about something in the bill that they don't like, be it "I don't like the taxes attached to it"...or.." 25 square feet ain't big enough" yah-yah-yah, ect. They better enjoy the profits whilst they can, maybe 5 years from now ...those $350 ounces just might be $35 ounces because the movement is growing, legalization is nearing, its going to cause more people to grow, maybe even to the point where there will be so many home grows in so many states all over the nation that there will be so much herb being produced that people will be giving their excess away like a neighbor who regularly gives tomatoes and peppers to their next door neighbors. ONE STATE, that's it, all it would take, and within a few years from that ONE STATE... most all other states would follow. 

I do think its wrong for cities to ban dispensaries and limit their number, BUT... I don't feel sorry for the dispensaries because of their greedy prices. The days of the dispensaries are numbered , the herb will be freed , because I have a dream...that one day... every house in America will have a green closet. I'd love to re-write MLK's "I have a dream speech", and make it fitting for the legalization people.


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## nathenking (Nov 5, 2010)

TreeOfLiberty said:


> I hate the dispensaries , because of their greed. They've had a cash cow going now and they don't want anything to stop their extreme profiteering off of MMJ. It's the same here in Colorado where I'm at. I moved from Georgia to Colorado because I was tired of chancing my closet grow on getting found out, Georgia is one of the worst states to get busted for growing and they'll probably be one of the last states to have any type of legalization or even any MMJ bill.
> 
> I got my MMJ recommendation on chronic back pain, 7 bulging disc with gross stenosis , both knees have torn meniscus also. I couldn't afford the expensive opiate pain pills and seeing a pain doctor every 2 months at $225 per visit , I done that in Georgia from 2003 to 2007, started growing for myself in 2007 and saving up with a plan to move to Colorado, which I done in 2009. With an average price of $350 an ounce at the dispensaries and I go through 2 ounces a month...if I didn't know how to grow that would cost me $700 a month that I couldn't afford, hell ...I paid less than that when I was seeing a pain doctor every 2 months and getting my Methadone scripts filled every 30 days back in Georgia.
> 
> ...


Here is a link that touches on the "free med maj for the poor" information. what do you think? https://www.rollitup.org/content/colorado-approved-free-medical-marijuana-85.html


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## growone (Nov 5, 2010)

we may be over analyzing prop 19's defeat
most of the points are good, but a simpler explanation may suffice
voter turnout was 30%, or so i saw on another thread
that kind of turnout is typically skewed to older voters, who have higher turnout rates

EDIT: Did a fact check, rate was not that low. 44.2% is the current actual. But it is a low turnout rate which does give older voters a stronger voice in the process.


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## nathenking (Nov 5, 2010)

growone said:


> we may be over analyzing prop 19's defeat
> most of the points are good, but a simpler explanation may suffice
> voter turnout was 30%, or so i saw on another thread
> that kind of turnout is typically skewed to older voters, who have higher turnout rates
> ...


I agree.... if they put a measure on the 2012 ballot, (where more younings will turn out to vote) there will be a very good chance of it passing... so, we can write a better bill that is structured toward actual legalization, and a more leiniante possesion/growing space, and we might just be way better off. (then if this one would have passed) things have a funny way of working out... so all the doomsdayers about this bill, watch and see it actually pass with even more positive benefits for the small timer than structured toward corporate grows....


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## TreeOfLiberty (Nov 5, 2010)

nathenking said:


> Here is a link that touches on the "free med maj for the poor" information. what do you think? https://www.rollitup.org/content/colorado-approved-free-medical-marijuana-85.html


$90 isn't that much money to come up with,but it should be a ONE TIME FEE only, or at the very least only requiring a renewal every 5 years. The back log on getting registration is getting bigger and bigger. I'm surprised Colorado hasn't jacked it up to $150 or $200, they probably will before long saying they need more people hired to process the massive amounts of applications.


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## growone (Nov 5, 2010)

nathenking said:


> I agree.... if they put a measure on the 2012 ballot, (where more younings will turn out to vote) there will be a very good chance of it passing... so, we can write a better bill that is structured toward actual legalization, and a more leiniante possesion/growing space, and we might just be way better off. (then if this one would have passed) things have a funny way of working out... so all the doomsdayers about this bill, watch and see it actually pass with even more positive benefits for the small timer than structured toward corporate grows....


there will be lessons learned, at least i hope there will be
i was a bit surprised that Lee seems ready to pony up another try
he has a partner this time, the name escapes me at the moment
but it will be critical for it not to be a 'Lee' proposition, he got too much bad rep, deserved or not
i think the framework for commercial sales must be made clearer than it was in 19


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