# DO I GET MORE YEILD IF I DON'T TOP??



## Okallright (Sep 13, 2014)

iv been reading some posts in this vertical grow forum, and read you don't top your plants , 
i top and do all the lst stuff and was just wondering if not topping will give me more yeild?


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 13, 2014)

You get more yeild because you have more canopy. I top in my vert setup, but it is grower style and strain dependent


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## Okallright (Sep 14, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> You get more yeild because you have more canopy. I top in my vert setup, but it is grower style and strain dependent
> View attachment 3253000


thought as such...thanks


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## JointOperation (Sep 21, 2014)

yup .. also depends how long before flowering your plants you top.. I have some that if I top right before 12/12 they will still stretch like a foot .. but others that if I top I need to wait a few extra weeks till turning into 12/12 or they will yield less..


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## hyroot (Sep 23, 2014)

Depends on the strain. With vert you get more yield because you don't remove any lower growth like you would with horizontal lights. How well your plant does with different methods all depends on genetics.


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## Wolf pack (Sep 24, 2014)

It's way more to it,than just not cleaning lower growth..
No matter how you grow,you want a canopy,with vert the canopy is 360
The whole bulb is being used.

As for topping for more yield,it all depends on you the grower..


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## gardengardian7 (Sep 24, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> You get more yeild because you have more canopy. I top in my vert setup, but it is grower style and strain dependent
> View attachment 3253000


Doc can you explain your pic a little for me. Im trying to understand if that is a single hps or if theres more lighting or what. I cant seem to identify.


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 24, 2014)

Just one 600 in the center of a 4 ft octagon on a light mover modified to a 16 in vertical motion. I have a 2 x 4 wire sceen up at 3ft across. I am three weeks in to 13 \ 11 now.


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## gardengardian7 (Sep 24, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> Just one 600 in the center of a 4 ft octagon on a light mover modified to a 16 in vertical motion. I have a 2 x 4 wire sceen up at 3ft across. I am three weeks in to 13 \ 11 now.
> View attachment 3261063 View attachment 3261064


So does that mean it dips as a sun rise and set motion. And i take it that you build your set up?


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 25, 2014)

It goes straghit up and down every 20 min. i modified a hydrofarm unit and i built my room.


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## gardengardian7 (Sep 25, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> It goes straghit up and down every 20 min. i modified a hydrofarm unit and i built my room.
> View attachment 3261072


Man that so awsome! I never even knew about a light mover. 
This will go in my safe of knowledge and strategy. I truly appreciate you taking the time to share your magic. Thanks


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## harris hawk (Sep 25, 2014)

Just use bloom boosters in early, middle and late flower stage, each stage needs a specific N-P-K and a good root stimulator is a must


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## Heavy Consumer (Oct 1, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> Just one 600 in the center of a 4 ft octagon on a light mover modified to a 16 in vertical motion. I have a 2 x 4 wire sceen up at 3ft across. I am three weeks in to 13 \ 11 now.
> View attachment 3261063


Just, WOW! Blown away! What a beautiful image! And I bet you don't need to be as much of a noob as I am to react this way. That looks like stunning use being made of a 4ft diameter space and a single light. For my first foray I'll be keeping things infinitely easier, but again, WOW! Thanks for sharing.

Just out of curiosity, is there an LED light with the capability of servicing a configuration like this?


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## Dr.D81 (Oct 1, 2014)

Yes there are a couple out there but they are still high


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## a senile fungus (Oct 1, 2014)

Go with CMH!

Beautiful cri and par levels


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## MrMeanGreen (Oct 9, 2014)

Any form of training is a bitter sweet scinario. Training will increase green matter or efficacy of light etc but will cost you in increased overall grow time. Topping or fimming will increase tops and foliage but will reduce light quality to second level of buds.

Took me a while to accept but nature has had millions if not billions of years to figure out the best way to present its leaf to the all powerful sun. If you are growing conventional horizontal method leave well alone as nature has already done the homework. Vert is out of natures job description and a new style so to speak so do what the funk u want and share your results.


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## SnapsProvolone (Oct 9, 2014)

Optimized lit canopy = increased yield. No matter how you do it.


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## MrMeanGreen (Oct 9, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Optimized lit canopy = increased yield. No matter how you do it.


This is true but folk tend to ignore the time element. Then again, if u got a seperate veg room ya can train all day long and not affect your flowering room.


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## SnapsProvolone (Oct 9, 2014)

MrMeanGreen said:


> This is true but folk tend to ignore the time element. Then again, if u got a seperate veg room ya can train all day long and not affect your flowering room.


Or you can veg untrained as do I, get them about 5 fert tall x 4 feet wide. Roll them into flower and spread them under a trellis to about 3 ft tall and flower. All the training is done in a day.


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## MrMeanGreen (Oct 9, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Or you can veg untrained as do I, get them about 5 fert tall x 4 feet wide. Roll them into flower and spread them under a trellis to about 3 ft tall and flower. All the training is done in a day.


I tried that and failed, too much bending at flip time seems to knock the stuffing out of mine. Bud size and density was affected big time. I train as I go now, each plant is individually caged so I can gently train em, saves on the shock factor and works well for me.


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## rickymac21 (Oct 9, 2014)

It is an interesting subject, simply because vertical growing completely changes the way the plant grows. As someone said, the whole plant becomes the canopy. 
I was kind of curious myself. Here's a scenario, try to stick with me.
1. Horizontal grow, 5x5 room, 1000w, with 9 plants vegged for X amount of time. No training, just little christmas trees.
2. Vertical grow, 5x5 or 6x6, 1000w, 9 plants vegged for same amount of time, no training as well. 
In my mind the vertical method in this scenario will always yield more due to even light distribution to each plant. No plant is further away from the light source than the other, and the entire length/height of the plant recieves light. As opposed to horizontal where the plants on the outer edge of the room recieve much less of the light. Also the canopy itself diminishes the light to most lower buds, hence the need for training. 
I do see some people argue that with horizontal lights and reflector, the reflector concentrates more to a single area allowing for stronger canopy penetration. But its not as if it creates any more light/lumens than the light already emits. So how is this in any way more effective than vertical?
I guess my point is, vertical growing is ideal regardless of training method. I have only tried vert once but it was half assed with plants that were on their death bed due to a nasty fungus gnat infestation. But i will be trying this soon. 
8 ladies, 1000w vert, topped MAYBE once just to limit stretch. Finish at 4 ft tall from the top of pot. I dont see why that wouldnt produce impressive yields for a hobbiest grower.


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## rickymac21 (Oct 9, 2014)

Sorry about that ^^^ i didnt realize i was writing a book.


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## MrMeanGreen (Oct 10, 2014)

rickymac21 said:


> It is an interesting subject, simply because vertical growing completely changes the way the plant grows. As someone said, the whole plant becomes the canopy.
> I was kind of curious myself. Here's a scenario, try to stick with me.
> 1. Horizontal grow, 5x5 room, 1000w, with 9 plants vegged for X amount of time. No training, just little christmas trees.
> 2. Vertical grow, 5x5 or 6x6, 1000w, 9 plants vegged for same amount of time, no training as well.
> ...


Don't top em for height reasons, I find that they only stretch about half again. Any upward stretch is switched to horizontal, chasing the vertical light which you control with nets or cages. I am considering topping next time round because I am finding that my top light (I have 3 stacked 600s) isn't being used to the max, it is really only serving the top colas. Don't get me wrong, top colas love it but a but of a waste light. So i am cosidering topping to get more out of the light.


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## JointOperation (Oct 10, 2014)

loving the vert mover.. i converted my lightrail 3.5 into a vert mover for 2 bulbs one on each side.. works lovely.. when i reset up my indoor room im a set it up again..

but as of now. my indoors is partnered up with a few patients as i lost my grow spot due to a family issue.

and for vert.. growing.. i top the shit out of my plants very early.. or even before i take clones.. like top the branches u want clones from by taking clones off the tops.. and then take another clone that will have 2 heads off the bat.. 

keep topping until you have a bunch of heads.. then allow to grow straight up and fill your room. 

unless you plan on using a ton of plants.. then dont top..


but for horizontal growing.. i bend the entire big stem all the way over till it almost breaks.. and then EVERYTHING grows up straight.. giving me an entire plant of tops.. keeping my canopy really low to the ground.. works amazing i have nice tops from top to bottom.. ever single branch i leave on them is a great big bud less larf..

i do both.. depeding on strain. i top and bend the entire stem lol . ill take some pictures and post later on.. i gotta head over there later to do some work . and chop the harvest down.


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## Cannasutraorganics (Oct 20, 2014)

I don't even use stakes in most of my plants. Don't train. Top main shaft once. Lollipop all to the top 20 inches and veg back a week then flip. 
Stretch is only 3 to 12 inches on 4 foot tall plants. My pots take care of that too. They are only 16 to 20 inches across. All going straight up towards the light.


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## m4s73r (Oct 30, 2014)

Intersting. I dont top personally. However I did do a run where i topped the side branches on the lights side. I found that i just had more tops. Didnt do much for final yeild. I dont top anymore. Just let them grow.


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## daybreaker (Nov 8, 2014)

Cannasutraorganics said:


> I don't even use stakes in most of my plants. Don't train. Top main shaft once. Lollipop all to the top 20 inches and veg back a week then flip.
> Stretch is only 3 to 12 inches on 4 foot tall plants. My pots take care of that too. They are only 16 to 20 inches across. All going straight up towards the light.


I just got into this main top cut...not only do you get the best clone for the next round,but it seems to create the canopy with ease without all the bending because you open that middle space by cutting the top out.Its really quite an easy yet genius way to go.kudos!!!


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## Cannasutraorganics (Nov 8, 2014)

rickymac21 said:


> It is an interesting subject, simply because vertical growing completely changes the way the plant grows. As someone said, the whole plant becomes the canopy.
> I was kind of curious myself. Here's a scenario, try to stick with me.
> 1. Horizontal grow, 5x5 room, 1000w, with 9 plants vegged for X amount of time. No training, just little christmas trees.
> 2. Vertical grow, 5x5 or 6x6, 1000w, 9 plants vegged for same amount of time, no training as well.
> ...


How big of pots?


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## rickymac21 (Nov 8, 2014)

Cannasutraorganics said:


> How big of pots?


Well i wanted to have plenty of room for roots, so 5 gallon hempy buckets. 100% perlite.


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## m4s73r (Nov 8, 2014)

I should mention i defoliate. Thats how i control stretch. Once my plants get to the height desired, i pluck every single fan leaf that has a stem longer then 1 inch or isnt connected to a new growing node. Got a sativa that is getting out of control? Defoliate and stop all stretch. I then cut all branches that are on the back side of the plant. Then i keep all fan leaves off of it or make sure that no budsite has shade.


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## polyarcturus (Nov 22, 2014)

Strain dependant, and setup dependant.


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## polyarcturus (Nov 22, 2014)

m4s73r said:


> I should mention i defoliate. Thats how i control stretch. Once my plants get to the height desired, i pluck every single fan leaf that has a stem longer then 1 inch or isnt connected to a new growing node. Got a sativa that is getting out of control? Defoliate and stop all stretch. I then cut all branches that are on the back side of the plant. Then i keep all fan leaves off of it or make sure that no budsite has shade.


Shocks them? I might have to try this, like add an extra week to veg after plucking then throw them into flower.


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