# VV is singing the blues. From seed to Perpetual Weed.



## VictorVIcious (Feb 28, 2008)

I had already ordered seeds and was planning on starting a new journal and there it was, the contest! Wow! Like it has my name on it. I am planning on doing a journal from seed to perpetual harvest, There will be some bumps along the way. Three blue berry varieties. BlueBerry, SkunkBerry and NorthernBerry, all are Dj Short Varieties. 10 seeds of each. I put them in containers inside a wet paper towel Monday night and 14 got planted late last night, I would order from PeakSeeds again. 

The plan is to Veg them for around 8 weeks, under the t-5 lighting after the first two weeks or so. I am planning on going to (24) hour vegging. I have put some thought into this. Those of you that have followed my Grow Room Design Thread know I havent rushed my clones before. I just took more clones and vegged them for longer. The blues are supposed to flower in 8 weeks. Reading about the difference 18/6 to 24 I came across an interesting observation. When you run the lights 24 hours you are training your plants to grow rapidly. Thats what I want to do. I am hoping I look at enough information to 'pre sex' them, I have seen a couple of good posts on this lately, thanx Earl, and I am feeling more comfortable with it. 

We will cover flood and drain, may discuss some light and ventilation issues, things having to do with the physical Plant, air handling, plumbing and such. I have done all of the work in the grow area, I haven't had to 'hire out' any of it so if you have any questions ask away. Remember, I am a cranky old fart with a bad back and bad eyes so go slow please.

Pictures will be posted sometime today, nothing important, did get a new toy though, worth looking at. 

One of the things I am going to attempt to do is establish a cost/ plant for the nutrient regiment I use. I am using the Ionic Series developed in the UK, now produced here as well. I will be using the full line except for the Nitrozime. If I get all the lights I want I may consider adding it right after the carbon filter and co2. 

Big plans for a liitle 
old man that gets too stoned 
to count to five or...
VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 28, 2008)

Ok, I decided to use peet pellets for this round. Walmart had a tray of 72 of them for less than $4.00. I only have thirty seeds, so I will of course have some left over. I plan on breaking those apart and using them in the intirim pots, then transplant to finish size in coco-coir. I had been using the coco in the intirim size pots, it doesn't hold together well enough for a slow old man and even though I haven't lost any in transplant I want to be safe with these blues. SO here is the tray with the pellets, soaked in ro water to rehydrate then moistened with 1 liter of water and 5mls. of Nitrozime. The excess water will not touch the bottom of the pellets. 
Here are the three 'Germinators', we open to find......holy shit, a couple of inch long tap roots, shit better get them planted, I hate when that happens.
I use a little screw driver to rough up the whole, and then I have these bent needle nose plyers to pick the seeds up ... and place them tap root down in the pellets. Move the peet right around the seed, do not smash it down. Into the propagator, 25 seeds are now planted, 5 more to go. 
Now the work begins. You want to keep the bottom of the tray, were the roots are around 80 degrees and the air around the seedling relatively moist. This means the light is a good 6 or 7" above the plants and when they stick there little heads up they will start to stretch for the light, might not kill them, certainly won't help. For the first few days I will remove the lid a few times a day to get 'fresh air in there'. As soon as it is practicle we want to remove the lid, move the light closer, get air moving around our little plants, a nice gently spring breeze.
Check out my new toy in the other thread. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 29, 2008)

Ok, so the adventure is off to a good start. 22 out of the 26 that were planted are above ground. 5 of the blueberry and ten of the skunkberry and 7 of the northernberry. One more of the northernBerry germinated. I would like to see then all up before these first to pop start stretching. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 29, 2008)

Still doing ok. I am hoping you can see the seed pods still attached to some of these so you have an idea what to expect. You should let the plant shed this on its own. May have to help it if it doesn't fall off by itself not for another day or two though. They don't all look exactly the same. This little guy must have been one of the long tap roots, I replanted it in this little pot. Maybe it will make it. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 6, 2008)

Monday I watered the seedlings for the first time. I used Super Thrive, root stimulator and Nitrozime. When I lifted the tray to dump the run off I got a little suprize, the roots were into the tray. I wasn't planning on transplanting so soon. I had just been to the hydro shop and bought some pots, I didn't buy any soilless medium so I had to make use a dofur. Meijer had some potting mix, mostly peet with a little perlite, had to have something. 
Here they are in thier original home. Now for the new home. 
I fill up the pots first and then use a 1" piece of pvc to make a hole for the seedling. I get the tray all ready first, then I use a screwdriver to help me lift the seedling out... then cut the mesh off the outside......see the little roots...down the hole......labeled and ready. Hope I don't lose any. 
As I mentiond I went to the hydro store, these are the nutrients and additives I will be using. Left to right, FossilFuel, Nitrozime, Super Thrive, Root Stimulant, Grow Stimulant, and Bloom stimulant. Back row, the two main nutrient's, Ionic Grow, Ionic Bloom and Boost additive. I tried to figure a months. After my 10% discount the toatl was $340.04. I geuss I better do well with these. VV


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## CaliGurl (Mar 6, 2008)

*Nice VV looks good so far!*


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## cbraaszsy (Mar 6, 2008)

Hey are you growing jam or weed? kinda fruity up in here  looks good


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## edux10 (Mar 6, 2008)

Are you going to flower with t5's again? Anytime someone wants to see what t5's can do I show them your thread..


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 7, 2008)

> CaliGurl*Nice VV looks good so far!*





> cbraaszsyHey are you growing jam or weed? kinda fruity up in here  looks good





> edux10Are you going to flower with t5's again? Anytime someone wants to see what t5's can do I show them your thread.


. 

Thanx for the kind words. I am still a little nervous about the BB's. SOme of them are getting thier second sets of leaves so I think they have recovered from the transplant. The nitrozime seems to have made a difference, now we will see how the rest of it does. 
Yes I will be moving them to T-5 lighting as soon as I feel comfortable they have recovered from the second transplant. They will be vegged under the T-5's as well. Please keep inmind there are several other more experienced growers in here that have been using them for longer than I have. 
I don't think I have seen a better set up line than that one, I will pass. We are clearing out the ice, crystal, and widow for the fruits. So far we have less than $10.00 per plant including the cost of seeds @ $5.00ea. 
The additives we will be using are pricey, don't know how expensive they are, that will depend on yield. I have used the Green Fuse Root Stimulant for a year now and I liked those results which is why I decided to add the Grow and Bloom Stimulants as well. @ $40.00 qt. thats $1.25/ oz. And I was able to save, this time they had the 2.5 gallon size of the Fossil Fuel. The gallons are $32.00, the 2.5 gallon is $65.00. I started using the Bloom nutes with Humic acids some time ago. When I wanted it in the 2.5 gallon size, they don't package that one that way. Jeff instructed them to give me 3 gallons for the 2.5 gallon price. We both understand, I always get my nutes and additives from his shop, he always treats me right. In addition I get 10% off all of the other items. He is the only hydro shop for 50 miles around here, see why I like my hydroshop. Well, I do have some widows that are calling my name. Later. VV


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## psyclone (Mar 7, 2008)

Good luck maestro. I just bought some peat pellets but have not used them yet-what do you make of them?


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 7, 2008)

I used the peet pellet for my first big grow, they worked fine. My favorite is the Rapid Rooters. I have used rockwool cubes and round rock wool plugs. All of them work, its more personal preference and the system, medium and pots or not that you are going to finish them in. Are you going to do a soil grow? Or one of the Hydro methods? VV


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## cbraaszsy (Mar 7, 2008)

with peet pellets is slow rooting.. havent tried rockwool yet but it just makes sense lighter meium eaier to push through.. maybe? will know within the next couple weeks as i'll be getting rockwool


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 8, 2008)

I apologize, I am a little behind. Between harvesting and the seedlings and having to use two computers I have been busy. On Wed or Thurday can't remember which the plants looked a little dry. Being the anal retentive sort I wanted to make sure and the way you do that is with a moisture meter. This one came from wallyworld less than $5.00. You just push it down into the soil, make sure to check your depth, you want it at least 1/2 way down in the pot, and then follow what it says. I didn't water that day and since this is the number one problem (over watering) for new growers it makes me feel like an 'experienced grower'.
I had been looking for some caster for my vegging stand and ran into a good deal on them at Lowe's. These came in a package of four for $13.99. They are made to screw into the bottom of the stainless steel shelving they sell. A few little part and now they go on 1" pvc. I paid more than that for some of the others I bought and these are better casters, swilval and brakes.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 8, 2008)

I have been able to keep the temps in the seedling stand at 74 to 80 degrees and the rh is between 40 and 60. Friday when I looked at them they looked a little dry, what to do? Well, lets get them, out and take a closer look. You can see the height, and here you can see some slightly dropping leaves, a sure sign they need a little water? Maybe. How can we be sure? I know, we have that moisture meter thingy, lets try that. Well, it does like it needs a little, and since all of the plants are in the same condition we can go ahead and water them all. Here we go, on the road again......turn the page...VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 8, 2008)

...here we go up on stage....So...we estimate it is going to take us about 2 liters, 1.8 oz more than a quart, either will work, too water the 24 plants we ended up with from 30 seeds. Operator error can be blamed for three of those six loses. 
For all of our examples we will use a tablespoon= 1/2 oz=3 teaspoons=15 ml. We get our additives together and follow the manufactures recommended doses. To our 2ltrs or one quart we add:10 mil (2tspns) Fossil feul at a cost of $.16, 3/8 tspn (2ml) Root Stimulant at a cost of $.08, 1/8 tsp Super Thrive (couple of drops) at a cost of $.06, 1/2 tsp (between 2 and 3 ml.) Dark Energy at a cost of $.10 and 1 tspn (5 ml.) Nitrozime at a cost of $.33 ( expensive shit ). You will notice, none of these are nutrients, they are all additives. They perform different functions by supplying different things your plants can use to take up and distribute the nutrients you will be giving them. All of them could be duplicated with natural products if you wanted to do the research and had the room and facilities to accomplish it. This watering is going to cost $.73 or about $.03/ plant. I think I will just get what the experts have developed. ....just the same old cliches, are you a woman or a man... Turn the page... VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 8, 2008)

....Now we are ready to water. I use a baster for watering seedlings until the second transplant, its about 50 ml. and i use GK's method. I give them one baster of our solution and then wait before giving a second basting. Always check your tray for runoff, do not let the bottom of the pots sit in water. Our runoff was less than 100ml. from the two trays which would tell us we made a pretty good estimate of the amount of water for this first watering after the transplant, and that we should probably plan on 3 liters (1 1/2 qts.) for the next watering. 
I am not sure if this will show in the picture, you will start to notice that after a few waterings, the soil will start to pull away from the sides of the pot. This would allow air to get to the roots as they reach the side of the pot. SO you want to rough up that soil a little, I just stick a fork in it, soil growers should do this right up til harvest. Stick a fork in it...I'm Done. VV


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## HotNSexyMILF (Mar 8, 2008)

Amazing VV.. just amazing..

The details to your success will serve well for everyone here. =)

<pulls up a seat>


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 8, 2008)

thanx for your confidence, I am still a litlle nervous with all the changes I have made. 24 hour light instead of 18/6, all of the additives. I am just using the information I have gathered on rollitup and showing what I do to accomplish what they have suggested. The cost analyisis will be fun for me. I was really suprised that it cost less than $1.00 for all the additives for those seedlings. That will increase of course as they grow and use more water. we probably have 2 more watering before nutes will be introduced. I think I will post prices for the quantity bought and then the cost per ounce breakdown. GK is back from India I think and answered the question about nutes in his book. VV


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## HotNSexyMILF (Mar 8, 2008)

I've always used 24/0.. you'll be fine. =) I have tons of faith in you. 

Looking forward to the results and price breakdown for the additives as well.. I'm looking to try some new stuff. =) Lookin' good.


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## felix (Mar 9, 2008)

cool! 

i just got a small pack of those pellets to try out some clones in. i've read they work well.


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## sportsguy1598 (Mar 10, 2008)

Hey VV I can't wait to watch this grow progress it should help solidify some of the advice you've been giving me


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## thaman420 (Mar 10, 2008)

Hey 1 question, have you used that superthrive stuff before? Did you notice anything? I saw some at the store and I almost got it. If I get some how would you recomend I use it?


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 10, 2008)

thaman420 said:


> Hey 1 question, have you used that superthrive stuff before? Did you notice anything? I saw some at the store and I almost got it. If I get some how would you recomend I use it?


Welcome, I think. Although Tha' man doesn't usually come to the grow. This is the first time using the Super Thrive, I have recommended it to others. I had a conversation with Maggie at the hydro shop about it one day. She said that if anything can save a sick plant then Super Thrive will. She uses a drop per gallon for all of her flower plants and herbs. 
The manufacturer has listed the uses and doses on the back of the bottle, I just follow that. VV


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## ganji2 (Mar 11, 2008)

You're doing a fine job. Keep it up ^_^

Some tasty genetics you got there.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 11, 2008)

I have made a change. Now the computer that was in our bedroom is in my workshop so I can post pictures out here. Soo...guess I should. The temp and humidity levels have been within range. This blueberry plant has burnt leave tips or at least it appears that way. We will be keeping a close watch on it. It is forming it's next two sets of leaves, it may be alright. All 4 of the blueberries are smaller than the other two varieties, don't know if it will stay that way or not, and here they all are. The next pictures are from a few minutes ago, this little lady is the best looking so far. I am going to start setting up the pots to transplant these one final time and put them under the t-5 lights a few days after that. We will hand water them until we are ready to sex them.
 This will be the 'a real test' for me, the theory I am following is the opposite of what I had been doing, this is faster growing than I have been doing. I looked back at some pictures of my first big grow. The height comparison with the ones I have flowering now convinced me this will be the right way to go. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 12, 2008)

Another one of our plants is showing some stress,and we will watch it, the blueberry still has the same look on the tips, the rest of the plant looks fine. This first tray has 4 of each variety in it and this one is 1/2 skunkberry, 1/2 nothernberry. After I looked at those two pictures I thought I better group them by variety. The four in the center of the front tray are Blue berry, Ones on the left are SKunkbery and the northern Berry are a little taller which is just what the seed company advertised. And here they are back home. This is the third time watering them with our same additives, So less than $3.00 so far. And this is our total runoff. About right 200ml for two liters. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 14, 2008)

Wow, take one day off with these plants, and they put you to work. I am happy with the results so far. We received the seeds and geminated them on the 25th of Feb, they started popping open and were planted on the 27th and 28th. They have been watered 3 x after the transplant with our five additives. Pretty much two weeks old today and we should think about adding nutes at 1/4 strength, around 300 ppm. We will be adding the Ionic Grow and the Green Fuse Growth Stimulator. They are showing some pretty good growth, first two pictures are from Wed 3/12, next three from today and besides adding nutes we want to check early root development. 
Hmmmmm... not to shabby, these pots are 3" by3" by 3 1/2" deep and the roots are at the bottom of the pot...... Here we go on the road again...turn the page.....


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## CALIGROWN (Mar 14, 2008)

very informative VV... nice thread...rep 4 u...


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 14, 2008)

I read the information in Jorge's book about transplanting, he recommend's using an interim size pot. This encourages strong early root development as long as you establish a watering shedule. This is not necessary for some of the hydro systems. I believe it is for flood and drain, drip systems, ebb and flow, run to waste and soil grows. These pots are ideal as far as I am concerned for all but the soil grow. For soil, I would probabaly use a one gallon size interim pot and what a week longer before going to the final 3-3 1/2 gallon size.
Soo I fill the pots about 1/2 full to start with and put a pot the size of my transplant pot in it. Fill it up to about 1" below the top af the pot and then pull out the 'form' leaving the hole. The growing medium is coco-coir rehydrated using ro water.
Hold the pot on the two sides and pull it a little, rotate 90 degrees and do it again. this will lossen your plant from the pot. Now place your fingers around the stem and on top of the soil, turn your hand over and remove the pot. Plant it, Green Side Up, right down the hole, put a little more medium over the top, repeat as necessary, in this case 24 times. Takes less than an hour if you have your medium ready ahead of time.
Now we want to do a couple of more things before we finish. We want to make sure we control algae and we want an easy way to keep track of our plants........up on stage.......turn the page......


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 14, 2008)

These are just cheap foam plates, I think 10", the 8" are to small and these are to big. Its a little heavy handed, using a fostner bit to drill foam, it works. Then we play paper dolls, make a spot for the stem and write the relevant information, DOB, Variety and transplant date. Costs less than $5.00 for 125.
Tune in later for the finish....VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 14, 2008)

There are a couple things we want to accomplish with these plants tommorrow. We are going to buy some sand to fill up the other inch at the top of the pot. This is an experiment to see if this will control fungus gnats, they really like coco. 
And we will try to establish a watering schedule for the finish size pots. Until someone comes up with a better idea we will be top watering these plants. Because I had reconstituted the medium ahead of time it will probably not require need anymore than 3 basting to get run off so we will start out making 3 liters of our solution with the two additional items. The Ionic Grow has Humic acids in it and we will start with that at 300ppm.
Here they are after the transplant. I will have to rotate them under the t-5's then the t-12's four at a time. PLanning on 4-6 weeks in vegging depending on growth. I have the height to let them get 18" to 24" before switching them to flowering, so we will just play it by ear. Enjoy. VV


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## CaliGurl (Mar 19, 2008)

*Nice VV, so your blues are well on there way. ill pull a chair up I'll b watchin' this one *


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 20, 2008)

Been sick the last couple days, I will up date as soon as I can. Here is the new group, these are hempstar/texadaTimeWarp. Had to help this little lady, and here they are today. 11 of 11 so far. VV


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## LoudBlunts (Mar 20, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> These are just cheap foam plates, I think 10", the 8" are to small and these are to big. Its a little heavy handed, using a fostner bit to drill foam, it works. Then we play paper dolls, make a spot for the stem and write the relevant information, DOB, Variety and transplant date. Costs less than $5.00 for 125.
> Tune in later for the finish....VV



and who says stoners are dumb and arent inventive!!!!!! 

very creative, my friend. REP 4 you!


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 21, 2008)

HEY VV. NICE SET UP...REALLY LIKE THE PLATE IDEA,,,IT EVEN REFLECTS,, WHAT WILL DIXIE THINK OF NEXT...LOL GREAT COUNT ON NEWBIES 100% THAT WORKS....ARE THESE FEM.S 4 SURE OR STILL NEEDING SEXING...IM IN SCHOOL AND WATCHING, LISTENING....AND IF YOUR NERV. JUST THINK OF US ALL NAKED....I HEARD IT WORKS FOR PPL ON STAGE.....AS IF U DONT ALREADY....A DEDICATED PORN WATCHER AND PROVIDER...DBB.
 ALL....


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 21, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> HEY VV. NICE SET UP...REALLY LIKE THE PLATE IDEA,,,IT EVEN REFLECTS,, WHAT WILL DIXIE THINK OF NEXT...LOL GREAT COUNT ON NEWBIES 100% THAT WORKS....ARE THESE FEM.S 4 SURE OR STILL NEEDING SEXING...IM IN SCHOOL AND WATCHING, LISTENING....AND IF YOUR NERV. JUST THINK OF US ALL NAKED....I HEARD IT WORKS FOR PPL ON STAGE.....AS IF U DONT ALREADY....A DEDICATED PORN WATCHER AND PROVIDER...DBB.
> ALL....


No these are not feminized, I may want to experiment with making some seeds, there was a post of a way to save pollen I wanted to try anyway as well as Earls thread on presexing around the 8-10th node, I figure thats about 1' height, which would fit right in with my op. I am still trying to learn these things.
And I really got transplant shock this time, I had never had this happen before, I think some of it will have to be chalked up to operator error, it showed up way to quickly to be just transplant stress. Soo.....You can see from these pictures how bad they were, this last one is recovering some.
Being the calm cool collected, old man that I am, I did not panic, my hair is a little thinner. Since this looked more like nute burn than shock I decided to proceed as planned and give them 1/4 strength nutes with the additives mentionded. I wanted to make sure we had runoff of our nute solution from every plant and only needed three liters to accomplish that, as I have stated coco can hold a lot of water. 
Talk about naked......strip your on naked city. here we go....just bobbing along, signing a song.....VV


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 21, 2008)

You Are Using Your Same Tried And True..chems??? Or A Little Something Diff. This Run Than The Rest/last...everything Same,,but Plant..dbb.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 21, 2008)

You know how it is, put a the eggs in one basket and then drop the basket ..... I maybe should have put one more round of the one's I know through. Well, its really to late for that now, I have no choice, I burned that bridge 2 months ago, soo....Here they all are I believe this was Wed. Here is a shot of all of them and the clone stand in the back ground, you can see some recovery, and this third shot shows the leaves that are or will be dead and new Green growth, a reason for hope. These two still have a way to go, these leaves at the bottom will die as well. 
This picture of the four BlueBerry Plants looks bad, that is better than they looked 3 days ago, and I think they may make it. I trimmed the bottom leaves off this one, and will continue to slowly get rid of the dead leaves, don't need to shock them again. I figure I lost a weeks worth of growth and hope that is the end of that carnage. This is how the looked late on Thursday I think. I'll post pictures of thier current condition and a shot of my new toy. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 21, 2008)

Tlc And Patience My Friend, Still Looking Killer, Nice Rack...take That Anyway U Want....they Got U For A Daddy, The'll Make It.....dbb
Slow And Steady Wins The Race,,,,not Faster Than The Bear....faster Than The Slowest Person...hang With Me Yull Never Be Eaten...
Head Up, Chin High!!! Stay The Coarse.......


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 21, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> You Are Using Your Same Tried And True..chems??? Or A Little Something Diff. This Run Than The Rest/last...everything Same,,but Plant..dbb.


I am using the same line of nutrients that I started out with, the difference is what I have added. The Ionic Series has grow and bloom, and then they have some boosters, Root, Grow, and Bloom and Boost to be used during flowering. The Fossil Fuel is recommended start to finish and I have been using that for about 4 months now. I have been using Dark Energy since I started the hydro. I think I am on the 3rd or fourth quart now a little goes a long way, and a lot of people have suggested SuperThrive. Other than the Nitrozime they recommend I plan on using the full regiment of their nutes. If the amount spent on the nutes increased production by 10% the increase would pay for the nutes. Same with my new toy. 
Soo.. here is what they look like as of today, and a top shot of the best looking plant, its about 5" tall now, by comparison here is the worst and best of the Blue Berry, about 2 1/2" to 3 1/2". The Northern berry is supposed to be a little taller, I doubt its supposed to be twice the size. Since 20 of the plants are doing fairly well now, I assume the BlueBerry is going to be tough. I will do what I need too. And of course that is the reason for the hybryds, to try and improve the strain. 
My new toy has been mentioned as a necessity for maximum yield in hydro. When I started, and tested my water it was ph 7 or higher, and I did the ph down stuff using the drops. This is not easy for some one partially color blind. I had to make decisions were I would invest what little money I had. I decided spending $200.00 for a reverse osmosis and getting a good EC meter would be better than getting the good ph meter and having to deal with the salt build up on pumps etc. Everyone has told me you can't grow plants without ph'ing the water. THe nutes change the water too a dark color, the drops won't work too good for ph'ing the water. And I was Growing 'some plants', so I stuck with my decision until I could afford to get the last one I should need as far as a portable tester goes. This wasn't what I was going to get when I went there, I was just going to get the BlueLab Ph Truncheon to match my EC meter. They are out of stock and will be for at least three months at the manufacturer and Peter made me a hard to refuse deal. Instead of the $220.00 I would have spent for the Truncheon and calibration solutions, I spent $50.00 more and got the works. Accoridng to Peter's brother, Scott, this tri meter would accept the probe from any tester including the one he uses with the $5000.00 system they have. Now we will see if I can figure out how to use it. Guess it will have to wait until I get those HSTTW's transplanted, the roots are hanging out the bottom. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 22, 2008)

Soo.... Germinated Sunday night, planted Monday night and here they are on Friday, Maybe we can just call then Hemp-Warp. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 24, 2008)

Soo...Easter Sunday, I promise I will get all of the watering information caught up with costs analysis... soon GK.

I decided to wait until the plants were telling me they needed to be watered, late Saturday night, they were getting a little droopy. They had been watered on Tuesday, so this fits our idea of a watering schedule for vegging plants closely. If I had watered them on Friday, they wouldn't have had to tell me, I am one of those anal kind, I like to try and make sure what I think is what actually happens. Because I had pretty much let them 'go dry' this will be another 'soaking', 1/2 strength nutes, all the additives, PH'D water (Pats Himself on the Back). 
The method is still the same, the dose starts a little higher after going this long between watering, four basters, approximate 250 ml, wait 15 minutes, do it again. If you get runoff, its enough. If you don't add more about 15 minutes later until you do get runoff. I use right at 3 gallons and got 2 qts. of runoff. The next watering we wil go to 3/4 strength nutes and then put them on a flood and drain table. Next week we should be full strength with the nutes. WIthout the early operator error we would have probably been ready for that now, we lost that week to let them recover.
Here are the four Blueberry's before the one puked on me. The stem had gotten twisted a little bit and that was cutting off tranfer to the top of the plant. I tried to replant it, that didn't work. 
Here's the Skunkberry, and a close up, the color is that dark green, I think. For a four" or five" tall plant this is a decent stem. And then we have the Northern Berry's. 
Last, I pulled the picture of the Hemp-Warp from Friday and Sunday, still doing ok. Probably should start preparing for that final transplant of these by the end of this week.


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## edux10 (Mar 24, 2008)

Looks great. Thanks for all the updates. I am learning a lot..


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 25, 2008)

Hey VV Looooking Good, One Day At A Time.....i Must Agree With E10... Im Gettin Some Schoolin....when I Read You,,,the 2nd Time, I Do It With 2 Books I Front Of My P/c....
J. Cervantes In Dr, Bible & The Canna. Grw. Bible By G.green
And This Is Just So I Dont Ask Stupid Questions........teach....!!
Your Are Deffinatly Adding To The Protfolio In Me Brain.......
TOO GROWING THE FOREST.....DBB. VV.

OHH!!! YAAA!!,,,,,, I NOTICED THE PENCIL, TEACHING THEM TO WRITE,,????? DAMMMMMMMM !!!!!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 25, 2008)

Hey Dirt bag, I have Cervantes book too. Most of the 'practical information' came from right here at rollitup. I took a few shots of the Hemp-Warp, first watering since the transplant. There are a few of them that still dont look that healthy, all are starting to form their first sets of 'true leaves', and about 3" tall, very spindly at this point. 
The pencil is jsut an idea I borrowed from Garden Knome Book. He used objects we are all familiar with so we could really 'see' the size. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 25, 2008)

Good,, There For A Second I Was Thinking My Plants Were Just Stupid,,,they Just Sit,,there.....lol....dbb.
I Cant Wait For The Sexing......one Of The Things Ive Yet To See..
Sk.berry Is Looking Very Healthy....dirt Bag Like.....dbb.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 25, 2008)

I watered these plants on Sunday, when i moved them today the pots were light, moisture meter agrees. We are going to move them to a flood and drain table, set it up at 3/4 strength nutes, and see what happens, I like what i see so far. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 26, 2008)

I have been getting some questions about the Flood and Drain system, and it just happens to fit our schedule. You can see, we just moved the blues to the table last night. Then we turned on our RO system and let it fill the reservoir while we slept. We are right on target, hoping to have them all inflood and drain at full strength nutes at four weeks, so a couple of days off, not bad after the early operator error. 
I put my ph tester in and got a beginnign ph of 6.4, ppm of 10 and 17c temperature. Added Ionic Grow to ppm of 850 to 900 ppm. The added 16 oz Fossil Fuel, 4 oz of Root Stimulant Concentrate, 4 oz of Grow Stimulant Concentrate, 7 1/2 tsps Dark Energy and 2 1/2 tsps Super Thrive. AT this point we had a ph of 5.9, ppm of 910 ppm and still 17c temp. Waited an hour and checked it again. Ph of 6.4 right back to our original reading. 2 tbslp of PH down now at ph of 5.8, ppm 910 (3/4 strength) and water temp 17c. not to shabby.
So, now we have our reservoir set up, lets finish the process. Here is the top of the table. And the reservoir, with some junk handing around. I use two air stones and a double outlet air pump. Here is the line running up from the pump to the bottom of the table. The pump is controlled by a timer, here is the top of the timer. We cover our res to keep debris and light out. At 7:00 the pump turns on, Floods the table and shuts off. I use a little plastic try square and find that in 7 minutes my 450gph pump will flood the table to a depth of 3", about 1/2 the height of the pots, and then drains back through the pump into the reservoir waiting for the next automatic watering. This puts our plants 'in water' for 15 minutes, a good cycle for the medium I am using. VV


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## #1accordfamily (Mar 26, 2008)

looking good vv


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 26, 2008)

VERY NICE VV, EVERYTHING IS PRESENT, RUNNING AND LOOKING KILLER.
RUBBER STAND MATS, PLANTS ARE SITTING ON.??
AFTER SEEING YOURS IM SURPRISED, MY SHT GROWS...DBB.

DIRT BAG, THINKS YOU SHOULD STILL TEACH THEM TO WRITE...!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 27, 2008)

https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/22115-diy-flood-drain-table.html I posted all of that in the build. Anything that allows the water to drain completly away from the bottom of the pots will work. I already had the mats so it saved me about $30.00 per table.
All of the 'micro nutrients' that I am adding are in good soil already and don't need to be added. That is the trade off to hydro growing. You lose the soils contents. If you noticed I made this a mixed medium grow. I used peet Pellets for starting the seeds, potting soil for the first transplant and coco-coir for the final pot size. Up to this point we have been top watering, appropriate for soil grows. If I were growing in soil this would be the point I would make that final transplant to the 3 to 3 1/2 gallon finish size pot. And my ph would be higher.lol The strain dependant result you are seeing would be the same. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 27, 2008)

We put the Blue's on the fllod and drain table and fired it up last night. This is a picture of the reservoir from yesterday and here it is today. It was down a little over 6 gallon. I guess they needed to be watered. First we check our vital statistics, ph is 6.1., ppm is 1120 and the temp is 22 c. Now we add our ro water, and check our vitals again. ph still 6.1, ppm back to 880 (3/4 strength) and temp is 20c. Just in time for the second watering of the day. Here we go, on the road again... here we go...Picked up a bag on sand to play with. The idea here is to see if putting sand on top of the coco-coir will stop fungus gnats from damaging our plants. The process is so easy you won't believe how easy it is. Here is the before after and sand. Sand, according to the folks that study the Michigan Dunes will only pile to a 34 degree grade, any higher it spreads out like water, seeking its own level. So we just pour a mound of it on one side, tip it a little and it spreads out to level. And now they are all back home. 
Pulled the Hemp warp out, looks like they need some water, Moisture meter confirms it, and I am as tired of posting it as you are of seeing it. Someone will post tomorrow, Help what is Wrong I water my plants everyday. thye are dropping , what can I do???Please help me I dontwant mybabaies to die. Get a moisture meter and only water when necessary. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 28, 2008)

Looking Very Nice Vv. Dirt Bag Like. Dbb


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 29, 2008)

I am getting taken to school. This is not my first grow, I have done a couple. According to what is happening with these plants, I wasn't growing hydroponically. Oh I was using a flood and drain system, confused all the time. I would read posts about using huge amounts of water and always wondered why mine weren't using that much. They are using some now. Here is the drop in water level from 24 hours ago, two watering cycles per day. Needed 3 1/2 gallons to fill it up today. Over 11 gallons of water have been used up and its only Saturday.
Here is a picture of the whole Blue Family, and one of the NorthernBerry plants, typical of that variety so far, you can see the stem is a thick as the pencil now, so I expect they will start writing soon, and I guess I need a longer pencil.
We checked the root development of the Hemp Warp last night, they are ready for final transplant, the one in the center is the worst looking one in the bunch, and it ain't too bad.
You know it usually about this time someone will ask, so Vic, what do you think is making this difference in the uptake of water?? Usually someone will ask me that....... VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 29, 2008)

Usually someone will ask me that.


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 29, 2008)

So Vic, What Do U Think Is Making The Diff. In The Uptake Of Water, Now...dbb.


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 29, 2008)

SO VIC, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS MAKING THE DIFF. IN WATER UPTAKE, NOW. DBB. VV

ITS DIRT BAGS FAULT.... ITS ABOUT TIME, WE DONT LIKE STUPID PLANTS....
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL: "PENCIL'S FOR DUMB PLANTS" PROGRAM IN YOUR AREA....


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 29, 2008)

I'm glad you asked me that question, I was getting worried there for a minute. I think that making sure you have the proper ph, not one that is just close will make a difference. Which of course is the reason I bought the tri-meter. I have mentioned a time or two, what we need to do is concentrate on getting the 7 basics right, First. 
And here is the tri-meter, along with a couple of things I use to make it easier for me. I quicly discovered that having it laying down was not convenient. They had these little red trays at Menards, work great and the plastic container is perfect for keeping the probe wet. Always use 'fresh' water in your little container. 
This is the process I use. I check the ph, ppm and temp of the fresh water. Since I now know what the ph of my 'fresh' water is, I can use this to make sure my probe is calibrated and operating properly. I set everything in place on the table I'm going to work with. Check ppm, Ph and temp. Before I added the 3 1/2 gallons of water it was @950ppm. Our ph while 'in range is not 'spot on' and this needs to be corrected. 
We will add a teaspoon of ph down, check again, 5.9, better, still not right there, another 1/2 teaspoon ph down, mix it with a 'wooden spoon', check it again. 860 ppm, 5.8 ph and water temp of 18c/64f.
I think I am getting things in balance and a few points difference in ph does make a difference in hydro. Thanx dbb. VV


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## JonnyBlunt88 (Mar 29, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I am getting taken to school.


What...Who...Your putting up some good competition
VV. It's def. making me work harder.

Loving that Tri-meter. I'm going to look into one
of those. Got a link?


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 29, 2008)

JonnyBlunt88 said:


> What...Who...Your putting up some good competition
> VV. It's def. making me work harder.
> 
> Loving that Tri-meter. I'm going to look into one
> of those. Got a link?


Not really, its a BlueLab Tri-Meter, you could try contacting Peter at my grow shop, you would probably have shipping charges. The price that was in the Hydrofarm 2007 catalog of $250.00 is what I paid for it. its their item code HDBLCOMMTR, Page 200. If you live by Lansing Michigan I could take you there.
Competition?? there is a competition going on?? Old people are always the last too know. Well gotta go use that tri-meter on the old grow. VV


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## FaCultGen (Mar 30, 2008)

woop woop callin out to all the Michigan growers lol ace duce baby lol...

and nice plants VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 30, 2008)

thanx, we try. I wanted to review the entire room for just a few minutes. I haven't done that in this thread. I keep talking about keeping the seven basics in balance, so I thought I would give you an idea of how the is working for me. 
We start on the vegging side, and here is the thermometer, one big enough for me to see and the oscillating fan that keeps fresh air around, of course the vegging table and the seedling stand.
Here is the temp on the flowering side, this is about 10 minutes now after the lights came on and the two fans that keep the air moving. There are three tables in there now, all are close to harvest. You can see, by the time I took these pictures the heat had come on, and here is the temp 10 minutes later on the flowering side. and then the vegging side. The heat goes off and thats my humidifier right next to the heat. The last two are of the same plant, one from yesterday and one from today. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Mar 31, 2008)

DAMM VV NICE, CLEAN, AND RUNNING....WERE'S MY DESK ??
THOSE BUDS LOOK SASSSY!! LOOK LIKE THEY WANT TO TIP YOUR POTS.
CANT WAIT FOR SOME PORN PIC'S ON THOSE GET CLOSER WITH THE CAM. OR DO THEY BITE..?? LOL I JUST GIVE MINE A CRAPPY HEATER FROM WALLY MART, U GOT YOUR A CLASSY FIRE PLACE.. AGAIN, DIRTBAG FEEL LITTLE, JUST RUB STICK TOGETHIER, FOR FIRE.. YA KNOW I HAVE SEEN THERMO'S THAT WERE AS BIG AS A FOOT ACROSS, I JUST USE A TELESCOPE TO SEE MINE...

AGAIN VV, VERY NICE..MORE PIC'S, MORE PIC'S, MORE PIC'S......

DIRTBAG, ASKES, IF YOU WOULD AT LEAST SHARPED THE PENCIL, THAT'S 
JUST TORTURE TO A PLANT THAT WANTS TO LEARN....DBB. ONE OF MANY, YOUR FANS....VV.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 31, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> > DAMM VV NICE, CLEAN, AND RUNNING....WERE'S MY DESK ??
> 
> 
> See Pictures, one for each hand.
> ...


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 1, 2008)

VERY NICE, IM GLAD WE CAN SMOKE IN THIS CLASS.
CANT WAIT FOR SEX-ED, MUST BEG WIFE FOR CAMMERA, WHEN SEXED, ARE THE MALE'S OUT, OR IS BREEDING IN YOUR FUTURE...???
DBB.  VV

DIRTBAG REALLY LIKE, THE THUMB PIC OF HIS DESK AND THUMB PIC UNDER...OF SHRUB.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 1, 2008)

Not this time, and I am just saying that one is a male cause its one of the healthiest looking. I moved them around a little today, had to move the light up a little anyway.. So I took a couple of picture's. VV


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## HotNSexyMILF (Apr 1, 2008)

I stand amazed as always VV..


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 2, 2008)

HotNSexyMILF said:


> I stand amazed as always VV..


I am as amazed as anyone. There is a big difference in how these plants are growing. I have been adding 2 1/2 to 3 gallons of water each day. Today I had to add 8oz of Grow Nutes to get back to the target PPM. After adding the ro water it was 1120 ppm, a 260ppm drop in one day. I also raised the temp. After the revelation about the difference in the temps in the 2 areas, flowering and vegging, the other day, I decided I really do have decent controls so I bumped it up a few degrees. 
Then Hemp Warp seem to be doing fine too. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 6, 2008)

I have been taking pictures and working on getting things closer to the way I want them. All of the plants are doing fine with one exception. Here is is in a picture form 3/23. Its the yellow one. Here it is today along side of one of the other BlueBerry Plants. SO, we will try to see if we can take some corrective action. I was hoping this one would catch up to the rest of the table, it was getting shaded too much. I moved it to another location and it started to 'green up' almost immediatly. I have been keeping track of what is happening and will try to get it all updated tommorrow. VV​


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 7, 2008)

VERY NICE AGAIN, VV. ON THE SICK ONE IN NURSES OFFICE,? WAS SHE IN SHADE? I KNOW SHE'S GETTING WATERED SAME NUTES. DOES SOUND LIKE A LITTLE SUN, AND THE GAL, IS DOIN FINE, HOPE SHE CATCHES UP!!!
THE OTHIERS, PROB. BULLIED HER, GAT'A WATCH THOSE....
DIRTBAG NOTICED #'S ON WALL, HE CANT COUNT THAT HIGH!, BUT IS NOW ENVIOUS AGAIN OF VV'S PLANTS.....DB. JUST STARTED TEACHING HIS TO WRITE AND NOW YOURS ARE LINED UP COUNTING....
BIG ONES COUNT H I G H !!!!

I DO FEEL BUMPS IN THE ROAD MAKE A BETTER CLASS, RECOVERY TECH. ARE ALLWAYS NEEDED, AND MAKE FOR A MUCH MORE INFORMATIVE JOURNAL.

ROLLUP 3, SHARE ONE...AND SMOKE 2 FOR ALL THE HARD WORK...DBB.
 VV. VERY NICE.


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## Zekedogg (Apr 7, 2008)

How is it going pops?


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 9, 2008)

Well, Pops has been like a one handed paper hanger with the hives. I am starting to get things organized a little, and we have some catching up to do. Here we go.. on the road again..Just a quick review. The blues were planted on 2/27. and watered three times before transplanting to their final pot size. They were moved to the flood and drain table on 3/26 at one month old. Here are repeats from 4/1 and the same two plants on 4/3. This last one is a week later. ......Turn the page. VV


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## GoodFriend (Apr 9, 2008)

def. want to read all of this as soon as i can...


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## babylonburn (Apr 9, 2008)

lookin good,nice plant scale...lol(the wall measurer)


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## babylonburn (Apr 9, 2008)

what strain?what lights?lookin good


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 9, 2008)

I know, just get started and change directions. On Saturday, I watered the hempwarp and documented the process. Here is a shot of them, you can see they are about 4" with 4 nodes, and here is the best and worst in one shot. We start with our RO Water, its 10PPM. with a ph of 5.9 and the temp is 16c. We add 3 tblsps. of Ionic grow and test again. 530ppm, we add 2 more tablsps. 1040PPM. Our target of 3/4 strength was 900ppm so we add another quart of RO water, and now its 910ppm, close enough for the girls we go with, our ph is now at 5.2.Now we put in our additives. When we get done this is what the water looks like, no way we can test Ph with the drops. We check our PPM, its 1020 with our additvies, ph s 5.9. We added a tsp. scant of ph down, and that puts it right were we want it. The temp is at 20c. We watered and drained them, put them in their new home with the new light, looking like little soldiers ready for the next assignment. If you think this is a lot of dinking around you are right. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 10, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> what strain?what lights?lookin good


Welcome, there are a lot of empty seats, pull up a chair and join us.
Four strains, three are blue varieties , one is a cross Hemp Star/ Texada Time Warp, which I am calling HempWarp. Four of the lights a 4'8 tube T-5 lights half red, half blue same light start to finish. I still have one of the 400 watt hps which I will be replacing soon. And I have some t-8 and t-12 fixtures which I use for the earlier stages. 
I just installed 'sight levels' on two of the reses and will do the other two when I change the tanks. 
https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/64035-diy-reservoir-sight-level.html VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 10, 2008)

up on stage...Here is what the room looked like on 4/7, the skunkBerry, NorthernBerry, old widows and old widows too. Lets not forget the Hemp Warp. with their new light.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 10, 2008)

There may be times when a pump fails, or whatever reason, that you have to manually flood and drain your plants, My mother used to do this with the African Violets she grew and several varieties of cacti. They are used to that FLOOD and then no water for awhile. Here is how I do it. Put you plants in a suitable container and fill it to three inches of properly prepared, ph'd solution, and let them sit for 15 minutes. Drain them and let them drip out. Here the HempWaprs closer up. I am almost caught up, these are from 4/8.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 10, 2008)

4/9 The blues are 6 weeks old today and in their third day of 12/12 light. This is that same Northern Berry from 4/3 and 4/9. Nuff said. VV


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## jonnyk (Apr 10, 2008)

WOW, those t5's are unreal. Great show!

-J


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 10, 2008)

SOME EXTRA CREDIT REPS FOR THIS ONE VV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CLASS IS GETTING BIGGER AND PLANTS ARE GETTING TALLER.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON TOP WATER, TO DRAINAGE -V-
WHAT IM SEEING WITH THE 'HW'? JUST A METHOD OR DO YOU FEEL SOME
ADVANTAGES ARE THERE....?

DIRTBAG IS NOW SHOWING YOUR PIC'S TO HIS PLANTS, ALONG WITH 
THE READING OF THE DAYS ENTRES. I THINK THERE LISTENING....
THEY BETTER OR ITS OFF TO BORDING SCH. I DID GIVE THEM THE "TALK"!

TO GETTING IT DONE....DAMM 2VV. DBB.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 10, 2008)

> B. THC R+D said:
> 
> 
> > SOME EXTRA CREDIT REPS FOR THIS ONE VV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...


Soo... the old man has a few trick for his 'J's. Take a few buds and put them in the hopper, throw out those big stems or don't. Put the top on, and hit the button, and...get out 'your tray', you do have one right? Remember I am old, some may think it's cheating, its not, your allowed this anytime after 18. Pack it full, close it, turn it around a few times, insert you favorite 1 1/4, I like the Elements, Lick it before its all the way turned, you can see the shape on the end too, and... a 'J' the old mans way. NOW LIGHT THAT PUPPY AND GO POST SOME PICTURES. vv I will roll another, just be patient, this is hard work.


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## HazyEyes (Apr 10, 2008)

haha VV i use rollers all the time i just wish they had blunt rollers i cant find them. thats for those pots man am about to put my babys into flowering they are getting big, they are in those big pots u gave me now and they seem to love the extra room.


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 10, 2008)

Lmao  Perma Grin Ear To Ear....my Joint In The Shop.db.
I Love This Class, Will We Be Graded On This ???
Dirtbag Says Shame Vv. For Flaunting The Thumb Pic's) Nice Guns....
The Arms Arn't Bad Ethier. Workit Slut Workit.....always Dbb.


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## mattso101 (Apr 10, 2008)

yeah T5's. Lets prove them wrong VV


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## HazyEyes (Apr 10, 2008)

O man i love my t5 i would not do it anyother way low wattz so easy on my bill, heat is never a problem in fact it keeps my temp right at 80 at all times and damn is it bright i just bought my red spectrum bulb so am half and half now to VV 

puts out all the lumens you need ...what else do u need? i can use my t5 for veg and flowering and still have great results. cant wait till i upgrade to the 8 bulb tho.


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## HazyEyes (Apr 10, 2008)

VV i got two questions for you my man.. my old wise Gondi

1- how do u get those danm fan leafs sooooo FAT!!

2- how long do you keep you clones under 24/7 or 18/6 before putting them under 12/12 or how tall.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 10, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> VV i got two questions for you my man.. my old wise Gondi
> 
> 1- how do u get those danm fan leafs sooooo FAT!!
> 
> 2- how long do you keep you clones under 24/7 or 18/6 before putting them under 12/12 or how tall.


I got the fan leaves that way by all of the things I did in this thread. None of these are clones, they are all from seeds. And this time I had the lights on 24/7 for the vegging stage. Goal was 1' tall or a little taller, these were moved to flowering at just about 6 weeks. I will be taking clones from them, by Monday at the latest and of course I will post that process. I am going to use the Rapid Rooters for them. My grow shop doesn't have an acceptable powder for cloning so I will be using the Clonex, with a little Dark Energy and Super Thrive. I expect it will not be longer than four weeks probaly less, I do hope to be able to move them under the t-5's after the first week so we will see. VV


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## HazyEyes (Apr 10, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I got the fan leaves that way by all of the things I did in this thread. None of these are clones, they are all from seeds. And this time I had the lights on 24/7 for the vegging stage. Goal was 1' tall or a little taller, these were moved to flowering at just about 6 weeks. I will be taking clones from them, by Monday at the latest and of course I will post that process. I am going to use the Rapid Rooters for them. My grow shop doesn't have an acceptable powder for cloning so I will be using the Clonex, with a little Dark Energy and Super Thrive. I expect it will not be longer than four weeks probaly less, I do hope to be able to move them under the t-5's after the first week so we will see. VV


Sorry am late for class, can i still take notes is it possible i cane be taken under your wing and have tutoring classes


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## DND (Apr 10, 2008)

Just got done reading the whole thread, can't believe I missed this one until now. Love the details and organization. Class is still in session right? How about some yield numbers?


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 13, 2008)

DND said:


> Just got done reading the whole thread, can't believe I missed this one until now. Love the details and organization. Class is still in session right? How about some yield numbers?


68 and 77, I yield for those numbers. These plants are just six weeks old and haven't yielded anything yet. The room is capable of producing about a pound per table, done so with 20 plants, 15 plants and 12 plants. We are hoping to improve on those numbers. Because of the transition from one set of strains to another, it will be a while before we get there, these are all from seed, so the (23) is really maybe 11 or 12 if we meet the law of averages. And we are going to be finding that out very quickly. At least four of the plants I viewed yesterday are showing as males. These are just a week into flowering light schedule and 6 weeks old. This is the first time I have grown the Blue varieties so I am not sure if showing sex this quickly is normal. It would indicate they were mature enough to be switched from vegging light cycle to flowering light cycle, maybe even should have done it sooner. I was planning on waiting a little before cloning them, now I don't think I had better wait. If the males are showing now the ladies can't be far behind. Ideally, you would get clones just before the pistils are out. This would still be vegging, but mature enough to flower as soon as they take root, kinda like Al B Fuct laid out in my original learning manual, Get A Harvest Every Two Weeks. Now I need to go read his Cloning thread again to try and make sure I do that as right as in can be done. All of the improvements Al has made in his op in the last year were dependant on having the basics right first, keeping the 7 basics in balance. He was harvesting 2# a month now its three. And we are still trying to get to the 2 number. If we can continue to improve, the 8 week flowering time for the blue may let us get there in a couple more months, Perpetual Harvest is the goal. 
This is how we have that laid out. We are going to take at least three clones from every plant we don't know is male. If we get 1/2 females out of all of the plants this will give us around 33-36 known female plants, they will be vegged until we think they are ready to go into flowering, right now we are thinking 4 weeks at the longest. At that point we will have enough to keep some as mothers and slide the rest into flowering. All of the widows will be gone by then and the originals should be within two weeks of harvest. The Hemp warp will be used to fill in the gap. They are four weeks old now and showing good potential. 
We will decide at that point if we need to clone the clones as they go into flowering or if our mothers are going to be ready for us to start taking cutting from them and by then we will know how many of the blue varieties we want per table. The rotation we want to set up is rocket science, two weeks for clones under 24/7 floros, table one two weeks, table two two weeks, table 3 two weeks and table 4 two weeks, then work you ass off for a few days. Repeat as necessary, in this case every two weeks. Its simple, it ain't easy, it is simple. And if I were to do it again I would get two sets of seeds and plant them two weeks apart, wish I'd a thunk that one sooner. 
I have a few things I am working on and I want to post them all here. I will try to make sense out of it for you, don't know how clear I will be able to make it, here goes any way. We have had some folks join and a few questions have come up about electrical issue's. I am going to make a thread about what I did and why, I did take a picture of 'My Control Panel' and my control switches. Here the are so you get an idea of what will be in that thread. Emphasis will be on safety, then convenience. You will see that even though I have made several changes in were equipment is placed, my early over plannning and over installing has made these changes safe and still convenient. 
I have done a little work on the new Bud Dryer and will be posting that, here is the temp and humidity with the fans off in the grow area right next to the flowering plants. And a couple of plants hanging to dry. I bought these coco pots at Menards. I don't think they would have the mold problem you can have with the Jiffy Pots. More examples of what they have will show up here soon.Turn the page...VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 13, 2008)

Here is what the blues looked like yesterday. I put a ruler on the wall, just marked 2' and 3'. Here is the worst plant, its greener than it was, and the top of it. And the plant we have been tracking on 4/10, 4/11 front and top and 4/12. It is of course one of the ones we think is male, still a nice looking plant, showing decent growth. Here we go, on the road again... turn the page. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 13, 2008)

Lets not forget the HempWarp. I have been using the 'Soil Method' of watering to this point, letting the plants go almost completely 'dry' before watering again. and I am hoping you will be able to tell the difference from before watering to watered to the next day, I know I can see the difference, just not sure if the pictures will show it. 
And just to keep things interesting I picked this little planter up at Wally World for less than $4.00. Its their salsa mix, Parsley, cilantro. tomatos, onion and cayenne and Jalepno peppers. The tomatoes came up in like three days so I put them in these little coco-coir planters from Menard's, $1.99 for 32 of them, fits one nursery tray just like the Jiffy Pots, shouldn't have the mold problem you can have with the JiffyPots. I just put a little coc-coir in the bottom and then the RapidRooter, filled it and watered them. They are designed for the roots to grow through and should make transplanting easier. And the tray does come with a humidity dome. Stick a fork in it, I'm done. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 13, 2008)

Just had a thought as I was harvesting a couple of plants. I have used a couple of different mediums, three if you count my first grow of 5 plants in soil. I have used three different material, peet pellets, Rapid Rooters and Rock wool for planting seeds and clones. Sharing the information the way I have looked at it requires pictures, so here we go. The pot on the left is coco coir, with an inch of flock roockwool on top, an experiment to see if it would control fungus gnats. The one on the right is all rockwool, sorry I had it out of the pot already, before I decided it could be useful. The flock rock wool the was around the cube had few if any roots in it and feel off easily. This pot has not been watered for two days, you can see it is still wet, clear to the top and had a little surface mold at one time. When we pull the coco out you can see its not wet all the way to the top, it doesn't draw as much water to the top of the pot as the rockwool, and this is the reason I decided to go to twice a day for flooding the coco-coir which the Blues are in. I pulled the main roots out of three pots, as far as I am concerned they are not any different, two of them are Rapid Rooters and the one I crushed pulling it out is rockwool. Here is the amount of waste from the coco-coir pot, all of it could be composted, I choose to throw that evidence away, it won't hurt the landfill, and this is the amount of waste material from the plant with the rockwool. It would be good for insultaion is your walls in you dried it out, it will biodegrade in about 7 years. This is the reason I have chosen the coco over the rockwool. All of the mediums will give you good results if you keep your 7 basics in balance. 
I mentioned the Blue were starting to show sex already, they went into 12/12 light last Monday morning. I believe these first two are males and the last one is a female. So far I think I have identified 3 males and at least a dozen females. That would be super. And it would mean I can clone my ass off. Right after I do my income taxes. lol VV


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## MstrWilliam (Apr 13, 2008)

Just stopping by to admire your work...And to thank you for being well spoken and informed. Reps to you my new friend.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 14, 2008)

MstrWilliam said:


> Just stopping by to admire your work...And to thank you for being well spoken and informed. Reps to you my new friend.


Welcome William, and props for your calm respones, we know it is an education process. I really like that 'harshing my mellow', I may have to use that one.
Some one asked what males are good for. They are good for practice and demo's. Since we don't care about the results we can get comfortable with the cloning process and increase our chances of success when it counts, kinda like batting practice, I understand the pro's still do that, work on keeping the basics sharp. So here goes, pruning and cloning practice, get it right in practice and you will get it right in life.
Here are the details of this plant, its 18" tall. The pencil is 6" to the eraser, I love it when a plan comes together. 1/3 of 18...uhh ok. We remove the fan leaves from the bottom 1/3 and then the branches. I place them in water with a small amount of Dark Energy, mostly humic acids and a little Super Thrive. We removed 10 viable branches from this plant. Here are the supplies I use for clones, this time around. The bottle on the right with the funny shape is a gel I use, may not be necessary. The Rapid Rooters are my preferred medium for this step, they are an all natural product, and a packet of Clonex, enough to do the 50 plugs come in this particular package. Costs a little more to purchase this way, and I don't like have a new tray every time, not very enviromentally friendly, especially from some one selling Natural Products, its $22.95 or a little less than $.50/ plant. I will split the tray of fifty, I don't feel comfortable working with them that close together. And I havent decided about the propagation dome yet, Al says they are not necessary. 
The alcohol goes on these four things, your one edge razor blade, your wooden or plastic cutting block, your cloning gel container and your hands. This is why you want to be 'ready to clone, everything in place and remove it from the area when its no longer necessary. If you sanitize your hands and handle a buch of stuff... Let these items air dry. For practice I will use these Rockwool cubes. I did not overwater them. For instruction on cloning using rockwool check Al B Fuct's cloning tutorial. Here its just practice. 
Ok batter up, here is a branch, and we cut the leaves off flush with the stem, make our angle cut below that and place it in our cloning gel, at least an inch deep. Put it in our plug, don't jam it to the bottom. We want to make sure our cubes are making contact with the stem. Mist them and place them in your clone..whatever. 
Please any of the experienced growers that se anything I should do different. let me know I still have at least three plants to practice with. VV


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## SnowWhite (Apr 14, 2008)

wkd mate...only just stumbled across this one. Gonna go make myself a fresh coffee, roll a big spliff and start from page 1.  Nice....I've been needing a new journal to subscribe to.


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## HazyEyes (Apr 14, 2008)

SnowWhite said:


> wkd mate...only just stumbled across this one. Gonna go make myself a fresh coffee, roll a big spliff and start from page 1.  Nice....I've been needing a new journal to subscribe to.


this is the one to be at man ..welcome to the class room i just got done reading the whole thread


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## SnowWhite (Apr 14, 2008)

yep, great stuff VV....I'll enjoy following along. 

I'm v jealous of your tri-meter btw. Bluelab stuff is the shit! Money well spent dude. I purchased a cheap tri-meter from china off eBay. Shouldn't of bothered. It's total shite man! Never seen such wackey readings. I will invest in some blue lab meters when/if I ever go hydro. I'll probably go for the Bluelab EC and PH truncheons though instead of the tri meter.

Did I mention.....excellent grow!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 14, 2008)

SnowWhite said:


> yep, great stuff VV....I'll enjoy following along.
> 
> I'm v jealous of your tri-meter btw. Bluelab stuff is the shit! Money well spent dude. I purchased a cheap tri-meter from china off eBay. Shouldn't of bothered. It's total shite man! Never seen such wackey readings. I will invest in some blue lab meters when/if I ever go hydro. I'll probably go for the Bluelab EC and PH truncheons though instead of the tri meter.
> 
> Did I mention.....excellent grow!!!


Thanx for the kind words, your room ain't doing too bad either. What you are saying about the BlueLab Meters is what I intended to do. I had purchased the EC meter a little over a year ago and was just going to buy the Ph Truncheon. And I would say that as far as convenience and ease of use, the individual Truncheons have it all over the tri-meter. I am going to have to find a way to make this tri-meter more convenient to use. The way my set up is now it involves too much bending over for this old man. I have a couple of ideas, I could attach the probes to a long stick and stick them in the nute solution without bending over, or mount something in the tanks to hold the probes in place so I just place them and stay standing up. One of the link I got about Float switches sells a bendable piece for mounting two float switches I may have to investigate that. I will post it if I come up with a good solution, maybe someone has one posted and I never had a reason to pay attention to it before.
The difference in Quality of the two, tri or seperate is that the tri-meter will accept any probe, this is according to Scott. Scott runs a Nutrient Production Company that makes nutes for Hydroponics. I tend ti listen to folks like that. I use the EC truncheon ocassionally just to check the tri-meter reading, they have always agreed, the trimeter is accurate to four digits and the truncheon basically two, you can tell its between 1.8 and 2.0 and if you can count the flashes from the light, you can tell which one its closest too, not that is 1330PPM. Great information, try adjusting the ppm of a thirty gallon res by 70ppm. It may make a difference if I had a Spectrometer, for our purpose, makes you sound intelligent but it won't win the ballgame. 
The cleaning solution that comes with the Calibration kit is right for cleaning the EC truncheon too, and includes another probe cleaning tool. The container they have for the Ph calibration solutions are way bigger than they need to be, the ph probe is not 1 1/2" around. Test tubes about 1/2" around work much better with less waste. Earl built a small rack to hold his that is simple and effective. He had a couple extras of those viels which I am using now. Hope you find the information useful. VV


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## HazyEyes (Apr 14, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Welcome William, and props for your calm respones, we know it is an education process. I really like that 'harshing my mellow', I may have to use that one.
> Some one asked what males are good for. They are good for practice and demo's. Since we don't care about the results we can get comfortable with the cloning process and increase our chances of success when it counts, kinda like batting practice, I understand the pro's still do that, work on keeping the basics sharp. So here goes, pruning and cloning practice, get it right in practice and you will get it right in life.
> Here are the details of this plant, its 18" tall. The pencil is 6" to the eraser, I love it when a plan comes together. 1/3 of 18...uhh ok. We remove the fan leaves from the bottom 1/3 and then the branches. I place them in water with a small amount of Dark Energy, mostly humic acids and a little Super Thrive. We removed 10 viable branches from this plant. Here are the supplies I use for clones, this time around. The bottle on the right with the funny shape is a gel I use, may not be necessary. The Rapid Rooters are my preferred medium for this step, they are an all natural product, and a packet of Clonex, enough to do the 50 plugs come in this particular package. Costs a little more to purchase this way, and I don't like have a new tray every time, not very enviromentally friendly, especially from some one selling Natural Products, its $22.95 or a little less than $.50/ plant. I will split the tray of fifty, I don't feel comfortable working with them that close together. And I havent decided about the propagation dome yet, Al says they are not necessary.
> The alcohol goes on these four things, your one edge razor blade, your wooden or plastic cutting block, your cloning gel container and your hands. This is why you want to be 'ready to clone, everything in place and remove it from the area when its no longer necessary. If you sanitize your hands and handle a buch of stuff... Let these items air dry. For practice I will use these Rockwool cubes. I did not overwater them. For instruction on cloning using rockwool check Al B Fuct's cloning tutorial. Here its just practice.
> ...


VV i just made my own clones about 5 days ago pretty much the same way i used clonex aswell and added a little bit of organic micronutes to the pelites they are in and am still misting them twice a day but so far i have seen no root development and leafs are starting to turn yellow and die (bottomleafs) but tops are still green, should i have not have seen roots yet or maybe give them a few more weeks.


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## HazyEyes (Apr 14, 2008)

Also do you know how many plants you can fit under ur 4ft 8bulber?? what ever it is i would be half i think because i have the 4bulber, and any idea how good the penetration of the light is, as in how far are all those lumen's getting down the plant before decreasing by a large amount ?thank you 

Hazy


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 14, 2008)

I am trippin'. Went thru the blues today and the four males I identified and praticed on yesterday is all the males they is. 19 females out of 23, must be something wrong, I will be watching them closely, and cloning. Got them all labeled and ready so I can keep track of which plant the clones came from and I think I may have figured how I can fit a table in for the mothers, now i just have to build it. I have done that before so I'm not real worried about it. May even cheat and buy a table, well see. The current stats are (2) blueberry, 8 NorthenBerry and (9) Skunkberry, all but that one BlueBerry are doing fine, and that one is improving in color slowly. Well, gotta go do those taxes, they are 'harshing my mellow'. VV


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## MstrWilliam (Apr 14, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Well, gotta go do those taxes, they are 'harshing my mellow'. VV


In the (missing) spirit of the IRS, I wonder if royalties should be claimed!


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## SnowWhite (Apr 14, 2008)

yeah cheers VV, very helpful. Thanks man. You confirmed what I had been thinking about the truncheons. Not as precise as the tri-meter, but still accurate, very durable and easy to use. Handy to stir your res/bucket up with too and no calibration required! They are def for me!

I should of just spent the extra money and invested in bluelab to begin with!  As with most things in life, you tend to get what you pay for.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 15, 2008)

MstrWilliam said:


> In the (missing) spirit of the IRS, I wonder if royalties should be claimed!


There was a thread started not long ago, guy was looking for ideas for billboards, I think you could build one around that, and I did put notations around it. I have hosted foreign exchange students and they always share a common cliche'. The one I liked the best was made by Felix, one of our students brothers in Germany, I know very little past 'nine,nine, nicht' so I ask what it meant. He said you know 'too stupid to shit', lmfao. And my personal favorite, You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him THINK. And you would only claim the royalties if I paid them and that would harsh my mellow. VV


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## MstrWilliam (Apr 15, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> And you would only claim the royalties if I paid them and that would harsh my mellow. VV



Nods approvingly, grumbles to himself, and packs a bowl......


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## HazyEyes (Apr 15, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> VV i just made my own clones about 5 days ago pretty much the same way i used clonex aswell and added a little bit of organic micronutes to the pelites they are in and am still misting them twice a day but so far i have seen no root development and leafs are starting to turn yellow and die (bottomleafs) but tops are still green, should i have not have seen roots yet or maybe give them a few more weeks.


lol never mind they are all rooted now damn am happy it worked VV u want some Medi bud clones??


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 15, 2008)

I DITCH CLASS FOR A COUPLE DAYS, FOR A BDAY AND A WEDDING, AND NOW THERE'S A NEW KID AT "MY" DESK, AND HAZYEYES DIDN'T RAISE HIS HAND ON THAT LAST ONE. NO WHEELCHAIR RAMPS, AND NOW WERE SPEAKING GERMAN.....WTF. "BOY DID I PICK THE WRONG WEEK TO SKIP" 
ON THE CLONE POST U WERE ASKING FOR MORE COMMS. FROM AN EXPERIENCED GROWER., YA! LIKE LUKE, TELLING YODA HOW TO ROLL A BLUNT. LOL AGAIN VERY NICE JOURNALING" VV. I HAVE TO READ IT OVER AND MAYBE THEN A QUESTION...QUITELY "STANDING" IN BACK!!! 
DB. DAMM FINE #'S ON THE BABIES, NEW TABLE TIME???


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 15, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> I DITCH CLASS FOR A COUPLE DAYS, FOR A BDAY AND A WEDDING, AND NOW THERE'S A NEW KID AT "MY" DESK, AND HAZYEYES DIDN'T RAISE HIS HAND ON THAT LAST ONE. NO WHEELCHAIR RAMPS, AND NOW WERE SPEAKING GERMAN.....WTF. "BOY DID I PICK THE WRONG WEEK TO SKIP"
> ON THE CLONE POST U WERE ASKING FOR MORE COMMS. FROM AN EXPERIENCED GROWER., YA! LIKE LUKE, TELLING YODA HOW TO ROLL A BLUNT. LOL AGAIN VERY NICE JOURNALING" VV. I HAVE TO READ IT OVER AND MAYBE THEN A QUESTION...QUITELY "STANDING" IN BACK!!!
> DB. DAMM FINE #'S ON THE BABIES, NEW TABLE TIME???


Just kick the other guys crutches out of the way, you can make it.lol VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 15, 2008)

... what are the good for, besides cutting practice?? If you are doing any kind of experiments with different mediums, you will want to see how well its working as soon as possible add that is another use for the males, don't just cut their ...heads off take the feet too. 
This is the height this male got to in a little less than 7 weeks, guess which one of these is male? 
We pull out the center stem and the roots, this is what we get, fine little hair like roots. Pull a couple out of the pots and take a look. These are peet pellets for the seeds, potting soil mix for the interim transplant and the coco-coir with an inch or so of sand on the top. All of it can be put in your composter or spread as mulch. I am going to save it and experiment with re-using the medium. My concern is gettin too much sand in the coco. I may just get a some of those bag filters that go around the pump. 
The practice clones are questionable at best, they don't usually spend that much time in water and I did not wait for the water temp to adjust, and as I already stated I didn't do the proper wetting for rockwool, it was just practice. I trimmed of the lowest set of leaves and will trim the next set of if I see 'new green'.


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 15, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Just kick the other guys crutches out of the way, you can make it.lol VV


FOR A SECOND THERE I WAS WORRIED....IS THAT RAMP UP TO CODE NO RAILS, "WAIT... WRONG SITE."

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND, EXCEPT THAT KID....DB. "SNIFFLE" SLEVE

LMAO !!!


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 15, 2008)

When You Clone The Girls Are They Going To Be That Large... Or Are You Just Exp-ing Around.
On The Last Cloning Post, Misting- Really Nec. I Never Have ???
The Sand Again Is For The Nats Your Having. Correct. Db.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 15, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> When You Clone The Girls Are They Going To Be That Large... Or Are You Just Exp-ing Around.
> On The Last Cloning Post, Misting- Really Nec. I Never Have ???
> The Sand Again Is For The Nats Your Having. Correct. Db.


Experimenting. I have always had to mist them?? Yes the sand is an experiment for controlling gnats. VV


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## HazyEyes (Apr 16, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> HAZYEYES DIDN'T RAISE HIS HAND ON THAT LAST ONE.


a THC NO ONE LIKES A SNITCH , MEET YOU AROUND THE TRI-METER, AT 4:20 DONT BE LATE OR ELSE.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 16, 2008)

So, yesterday I got the taxes done, my mellow is right, and we are getting the boys out of here. Here is a shot showing how the addition of the sand affected the roots, you can see it grew another set of roots right at the break between the sand and the coco, I was hoping for that. Like an extra anchor. Here is what a root is really like, I am sure if I could have unwound it without breaking it, it would have been several feet long, and you can see it goes from the center out to the edge of the pot. If you break thru the roots in one spot you get an idea that the outside is all root. Thats because it is. Our 'cut away view' shows the mediums we used and makes it look like all of the roots go straight across, nothing in the middle. If we wash the medium from around the main root we see this isn't true, the roots are all thru the pot. What we don't have is a big tap root filling the pot, they are all small. Its a power watering system for your plants. And the short main root is a product of our early training. 
We started them in a small cube, and let them grow til they filled that small container, tranferred them to a little bigger container and let them fill that one, and then to the final one gallon pot size. At first we gave them very little water, only when they were dry. When we had the plants developing like we wanted them too, a good root system developed, then we started giving them all the water they could use with all the nutes they could use and as much light as we could give them with the equipment I have. I wonder how that has worked. Turn the page......VV


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 16, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> a THC NO ONE LIKES A SNITCH , MEET YOU AROUND THE TRI-METER, AT 4:20 DONT BE LATE OR ELSE.


WORRIED LOOKING FOR THE 'LITTLE BUS", TRAPPED, DIRTBAG ROLLS A PHATTY OF APJ. MIND ERASER AND WAITS NEXT TO TRI METER. AFTER SMOKING WITH HAZYEYES, PROCLAIMS, THIS IS NOT THE CRIPLET YOUR LOOKING FOR....ITS THAT GUY ON THE CRUTCHES... BUT NOT TO WORRY... 

 SOILENT GREEN IS PEOPLE  "THUMP" HEY VV MORE COMPOST...LOL DB.


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## GrowBigOrGrowHome (Apr 16, 2008)

Hey VictorVIcious,

Thanks for your kind comments in my grow journal. I'm learning a lot from reading through yours. I can't wait to see how your latest go of things turns out!


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 16, 2008)

GrowBigOrGrowHome said:


> Hey VictorVIcious,
> 
> Thanks for your kind comments in my grow journal. I'm learning a lot from reading through yours. I can't wait to see how your latest go of things turns out!


Your welcome, and thanks for stopping by. I made an upfook here somewhere, you know old people and computers. Shit now I have to remember what I said. Maybe I should just post the pics and let that be it. If you have any questions I'll try to answer ??


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 17, 2008)

ITS OK VV WE UNDERSTAND! YOU FINISHED THE J. B4 THE POST.
OR DID THE RAMP KNOCK SOMTHING LOOSE?
IF ANYONE HAS A QUESTION, SENDEM TO THE FRONT OF THE THREAD.
THAT ONE PIC OF THE GREEN HEDGE IS SOLID..
NO QUESTIONS HERE, OLD TIMING MAHN. DB.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 17, 2008)

Soo...I decided to stop talking about it and just get it done. Just like I always end up doing I planted just about everything. Some of the big one should push ahead of the other two or three... or..however many there are. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 17, 2008)

Here is what the flowering tables looked like yesterday ..... and today. VV


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## Earl (Apr 17, 2008)

I am glad you got the trimeter.

The probes are time limited.

I just had my Milwaukee meter take a dump.
I contacted the company and they want to send me a new probe,
so I am going to let them,
but I'm sure it is the meter.

I am about to buy a Pinpoint meter on ebay, so I can have two back ups.

Did you lose those calibration beakers I gave you?

You really should calibrate your meter at two points.

Just setting it to 7 because that is what your RO is,
will not be a good way to check it.

I always avoid putting my probe into RO.

RO will cause the reference fluid in the probe, to lose ionic capacity.

Every time you expose your probe to RO,
you shorten the life of the probe.

Pinpoint and Milwaukee reccommend replacing the probes every grow.

Probes with 10' cords are $50 on ebay.

Every time you change the probe,
you need to calibrate the meter.

The Hempwarp is looking strong.

.
.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 17, 2008)

Thanx Earl, yes they gave me that information with the meter, said always put it in tap water not RO or in the moisture cap with tap water in it.



> The cleaning solution that comes with the Calibration kit is right for cleaning the EC truncheon too, and includes another probe cleaning tool. The container they have for the Ph calibration solutions are way bigger than they need to be, the ph probe is not 1 1/2" around. Test tubes about 1/2" around work much better with less waste. *Earl* built a small rack to hold his that is simple and effective. He had a couple extras of those viels which I am using now.


I check my ph with tap water, the ro water is not a constant ph which suprised me. Oh, I knew it would fluctuate a little depending on the age of the filter, didn't know it could be 5.4 to 6.4. The probe has a warranty, don't remember what it is, just know I trust the quality and my hydro shop. If there is a problem I think they will help, probably spend a large one there every month. lol 
The HempWarp are going to be moving to flood and drain in the next day or two, flowering the next week or two. Probably T-5 the whole way. They will really take off with the switch to two a day watering and the 12/12 light. VV


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## Earl (Apr 17, 2008)

Please get some 4.01 and 7.00 cal fluid from your buddy 
and do a real calibration on your meter.






If you use the beakers I gave you, 
it will only cost about 50¢/week,
to get the full usefulness out of your meter.

Vic, why would you get a $250 meter, 
and not follow the mfg directions, 
to make sure it is giving you perfect data?

.


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 17, 2008)

Db. Hears The Word Probe....and Stops Stiring His Dirt. Can I Say "probe" Too!!! Hey Vv The Stocks On The One's, Next To The Othiers, Were Nice. By That Table Thing-e... Dirtbag Lost. Lol
The Coalition To Stop The Use Of Tri-meters Unit Local421....the Probing Of Cannabis Has Got To Stop.....


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## Earl (Apr 17, 2008)

You should calibrate the meter while it is under warranty,
so you will know if it ever screws up.

.


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## White Widow Woman (Apr 17, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Here is what the flowering tables looked like yesterday ..... and today. VV


You're grow looks be-u-T-ful!!!

Widow


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 17, 2008)

Thanx, a little sparse looking at the moment. I calibrate my tri-meter at least everyweek and more often if I think there is a problem. I bought the kit with the tri-meter, has ph7, ph 4, and the big viels that I don't use because I have and use the ones you gave me. WIht tose viels I doubt it costs 50 cents, they are the perfect size. I just fill them to the line. Takes about three minutes to clean both probes and rinse them properly, calibrate and put the stuuf back away. I can post that process if folks think it would be helpful. The only thing I use the ro water for is my reses and the plants I hand water and I don't ph that water until after I had my nutes. My tap water is well water, ph is usually right at 7.3 and 300ppm. That will fluctuate while I checking all four tanks, a little of the res water will stick to the probes and add a few ppm etc. $250 was the cost of the meter, with the calibration kit and tax it was $285.00. Every time I have calibrated them the first ph read is always 7.1. The low side has always been corect for that solution. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 19, 2008)

well ok, this is what a batch of clones is supposed to look like. I borrowed this from Al B Fucts Gallery, its from his thread on cloning. Everyone read's Al's thread Get a Harvest Every Two Weeks, not many pay attention to how he does it. The reason he is able to do this over and over is he keeps mothers and he takes big clones, usually 5.5mm diameter. Thats not quite as big around as a pencil, it is close.
Since our goal is to go from seed to perpetual harvest we will need to do the same thing, keep some plants as mothers, learn how too top them, cut the growing tips off and let them get a little bushy. We have too crawl before we walk, we have 19 blueberry variety plants, we hope no more of them are males, in any case its what we have to work with so yesterday I pruned the bottom 1/3 off those plants and took some cutting. None of them is as large as all of these are. Does that mean the won't root? No, we will do like the dutchman said and throw enough spagettii against the wall some is bound to stick. We will get them to root, it will be a lot slower process. 
I posted a few trays of cuttings taken yesterday. Here is a tray of those. You can see they look a little sick. When I take cuttings I try to work fairly quick and then come back and start cleaning them up the next day. We will trim all of these leaves off and even prop some of these up. All we are trying to do at this point is get them to start forming roots. Of the 140 cuttings I took we only lost four on the first day. You can see they length of these is allover the sandlot, some of them are tall and some are really short right now. Thats ok, right now we want numbers. We have three tables we want to fill over the next 6 weeks and even at 24 per table that leaves us a few extra's. 
So now that that is done for the day its time to relax a little then go to work. Pm's from rollitup have to be done with the right mellow. VV


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## HazyEyes (Apr 19, 2008)

What kind of car is that in the poster?? somthing from the 50s did u have one lkike that back in the good old days 

hanks for this post that link helped thank god all my clones rooted and they are in soil now.... its really easy i though it would be a little harder.


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 19, 2008)

VV AGAIN, AGAIN. NICE CLONES BIG GIRLS, I MIGHT HAVE TO START LIKE THAT NEXT RUN, SEE WHAT CRIPLET GETS.

NOW BUSINESS:
ARE YOU PADDING YOUR #'S, A STROKE, OR IS THE SHORT TERM BURNT THE HELL UP....LOL., AND A FACE SHOT, DAMMMMM. IM FUGLY THE DOC, SLAPPED MY MOM WHEN I CAME OUT, BUT DUDE, I NOW KNOW WHY WOLVES EAT THERE YOUNG. THE LAST TIME I SAY A MUG LIKE THAT IT WAS ON THE BACK OF A MILK CARTON.....AND THE KIDS PARENTS WERE THE ONES DRAWING IT..... AND ONE MORE THING, STUD....LAY OFF THE ROIDS AND GIVE A LITTLE OF THE GROWTH HORMONS TO THE PLANTS MAHHN.
HEY!!! "ILL GET FONDALDED" DOES AL B FUCT KNOW YOUR PIMPING HIS JOURNAL TOO... DIRTBAG.

CRIPLET HAS A QUESTION FOR YA! "IGF" IF U CLONE IT ONCE, AND POST IT TWICE, DOES THAT MEAN A BIGGER HARVEST....

"ABF" IS A GOD/GROWER I HOPE U GOT PERMISSION.......IF NOT IMA TELL. DB.TWISTED EVILPEACE TO VV EVERYDAY.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 19, 2008)

I wish, I would just post it ten times and retire. Of course Al knows, I asked him if he would post it, said he would if he had time or I could. They are not in alphabetical order so you just have to look thru.he even said he was going to show up here one day and force me at 'BongPoint' to get an hid light. He is going to have to row a lot to get here. I think he has answered why he doesn't grow in soil about 20 times and the subtitle says anything but soil. Amazing patience. He even gave a time table for going from seed to the two week rotation, I think it ends up about six months. Folks overlook the importance he places on having and keeping them. He would like to be keeping 10 mothers to take 30 clones from, or an average of three clones per mother. Perfect clones, 5.5mm stems from a plant that is veggatatively mature and ready to go into flowering. When he talks about trimming off the bottom 1/3 there isn't any bottom until you get up there aways, at least 6" and probably more like 9". What he in effect is doing is taking a little tree that is ready to flower, throwing some roots on the bottom of it, that takes about 2 weeks, and that little tree is begging him to flower it. Look at the bottom of his plants there isn't anything there, fact is for a lot of that bare length there never was. He didn't have to trim it in vegging, its already gone. SO he doesn't have to veg them just throw roots on them and flower. I am positive not everything he cuts ends up as a clone, he said he throws out more than he uses. By taking the cutting anyway he is training the mothers. And then he runs them into the production line when he has the replacement mother already trained. Al hasn't said you can't do it the way I am doing it, he has said you would be farther ahead to keep some plants out of the first Group and train it to be a mother. 
I have always asked how you know you have a good mother if you don't know what the plant is supposed to look like. I have all of the clones marked as to which plant they came from and I will have a fair idea of what a good mother looks like in the next few weeks. Some of the clones from those plants will not make it to the flowering room for a while. By the time we go thru the process of turning these cuttings into clones everyone should understand why mothers are important. VV


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## MstrWilliam (Apr 19, 2008)

so much reading your journal Mr. Vicious.....Thank you, and all the other mentors out here!!!!


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 20, 2008)

VERY NICE VV SIMPLE AND EASY FOR UNDERSTANDING, AND A GOOD VISUAL. ON THE TOPIC OF MOTHERS, YES DIRTBAG NEEDS LITTLE-ER WORDS, WE ARE TALKING OF A PLANT, FROM ITS START AS A CLONE, THAT IS OR APPEARS MORE BUSHY, FOR GIVING CLONES AND A HEALTH-ER
LOOK ABOUT HER. THIS WOULD BE ONE TO WATCH FOR.. A MOTHER. ??? DB.


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## UserFriendly (Apr 20, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I have always asked how you know you have a good mother if you don't know what the plant is supposed to look like.


I have always considered the best female of the round to be a good mother.  Sometimes you can find a few in a pack of ten but everyone has different ideals for their plants. When you have to shell out big bucks for a pack of seeds, you take what you can get. 

Very nice grow VV. Thanks for the pics brother. I loves me some eye candy. K+


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## UserFriendly (Apr 20, 2008)

Aw....looks like I have to wait to give you that rep.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 20, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> I have always considered the best female of the round to be a good mother.  Sometimes you can find a few in a pack of ten but everyone has different ideals for their plants. When you have to shell out big bucks for a pack of seeds, you take what you can get.
> 
> Very nice grow VV. Thanks for the pics brother. I loves me some eye candy. K+


 
Ohh, I get it now, after you put it in flowering, probably about four weeks into flowering you will know which one is a good mother and then....would you have picked this scraggly looking thing? Its only 22" tall, its not bushy, its kinda sparse looking? I was thinking I should just throw it out? 

I think I didn't make my point about mother plants very well. First time growers, like me don't know what makes a plant a good mother, we won't really know until we harvest the plant, thats really what should determine which one would have been a good mother. And if you cloned the bitch, you have some good mothers, sacrifice those plants to set up your system. I may be the only one that has this problem, maybe everyone else can recognize a good mother the first time they work with a new strain, I can't. Hey, old newbie's are slow on the uptake ya know. VV


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## UserFriendly (Apr 20, 2008)

That plant looks good to me. Nobody is going to be able to look at a plant and tell if it's what they want. Even Sam the Skunkman says this, and he's been breeding since the 60's or 70's. The plant is supposed to look like what it looks like already, you dig? The conditions you put them in aren't the same they were bred in, enter the phenotype.

If you're trying to decide between a few girls, I suggest a reveg. The strongest and fastest plant will be the most photosensitive; there's your keeper. I suggest you hold on to the two best, male and female.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 20, 2008)

This is that same tray of clones. We see some more leaves that will need to be trimmed off, get it as close as you can. Here we have a little leaning plant. So we get out our Doctors kit, the skewers are about a buck for like a hundred, the wire tie is from the dollar store. I take a little depth check and height check by just holding the skewer against the side of the tray. You want to attach the tie to the skewer first, twist it nice and tight, form a little hook, and place the prop, hook the plant and carefully push it towards the prop. Done. I wonder if it's going to work?? VV

I know how it turns out, I peeked.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 20, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> > That plant looks good to me.
> 
> 
> Would you please explain this? And I'm serious as a heart attack. That plant doesn't have a big leaf left on it. It's been flowering for 12-13 weeks and as I have mentioned a time or two I am partially color blind, I don't see any amber trich's in that bitch and it looks to me like its just dying. I was kidding about throwing it out, but harvesting it now has crossed my mind. Any advice you can give is welcome.
> ...


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## UserFriendly (Apr 20, 2008)

Going by the size of the nug, the plant looks like it can pump out some weight in a sea of green. Sog is just the most efficient way to grow if plant numbers aren't a concern. I thought you had trimmed it up in prep for the chop. If the leaves have all fallen off, just chop it now. If you have clones of her or are going to reveg, give her more nitrogen a little later into flower next time is all. 

You don't need to see trichomes to know when to chop. I suggest harvest when those calyxes are swollen. Of course the more you grow a particular plant (not just the strain), the better off you'll be.

Sam the Skunkman (Seedsman & Skunkmans Cultivars seed co.) posts on icmag. It's a great resource, lots of great info; check it out-> International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - powered by weed 
Also..... Cannabis Culture: Library lots to be had.

You'll want to wait until you can compare the final product of those skunkberries. If you're growing mersh, you may want the large yielder; just have to wait and see about that. I personally enjoy sativas the most and 12 weeks seems like a decent compromise. I'd rather have an ounce or two of the best haze than a pound of schwag.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 20, 2008)

Only problem with that is thats one of the strains I am dropping. Thanx for the other advice. It will probably be a year or so before I start doing any breeding to speak of, I need to finish the setup first.
I will be growing sog, I started with seeds ended at 19 plants right now and I already have the lights and tables, have already taken at least 4 clones from each plant, so far we have lost 11 out of 144. I am not confident we have identified all of the males yet. And I do have the HempWarp, dob 3/17, flowering 4/20. I have this confidence going for cloning so I am going to take clones from them over the next day or two. Don't know if you have had a chance too look at them or not, I'll post them here for you. 
These are the three trays of clones today, and one that may not make it. VV


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## UserFriendly (Apr 20, 2008)

If the clones are yellowing up and dying, it's likely they are getting too much light. How long do they average to root?


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## Earl (Apr 20, 2008)

Happy 4/20 buddy!


,


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 20, 2008)

Earl said:


> Happy 4/20 buddy!
> 
> 
> ,


Thanx Earl. did you notice the HempWarp went into flowering on 4/20. Clones will soon follow. Right back at ya big guy. 



> UserFriendlyIf the clones are yellowing up and dying, it's likely they are getting too much light. How long do they average to root?


Maybe I missed something here. One of the clones out of 133 has some yellowing right were the old leaves meet the stem. I am positive this is not a sign it was getting too much light, they were all under the same t-12 floros, all on the same 2' by 4' shelf. AND since it is the first time I have cloned these strains, I have no idea what the rooting time is. I know what I look for is new 'Green Growth'. No one has accused me of giving too much light before, I have been accused of a few other things, not that one. Al B is going to force me at bongpoint to buy myself an hid light. They are under a weak T-5 light now, running 1/2 of the bulbs. The T-5 fixtures have this feature built in, and in a day or two I will turn the rest of them on. Thats still only 40,000 lumens. Do you think the 20,000 lumens they have now is too much? VV


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## UserFriendly (Apr 20, 2008)

When you said you had lost 11 out of 144, and i saw the pick of that single clone looking shabby, I was wondering if they were dropping like flies and thought it may be useful info. I most def did not say it was the problem. I wouldn't turn them all on until they were actually growing in medium. If you're comfortable with how it's going, then that's all that matters; keep on doing what you're doing.

That T5 fixture is nice. I know a lot of growers would love to have it. Even at half strength, it's more than i would suggest using for clones. I know it would be perfect for a mother cab. 

You have a lot of plants and you're going to need a serious light. Al B uses 2k over 8x8 and gets good results because he has major overlap working with two hoods. Do you want pounds? Do you see yourself going big like that? I want you to get a 1000w, but only if you're going to use it to the fullest. Thats means inline fans, ducts, holes in things. It's going to cost money to setup, but we know its worth the cost and then some.


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## Portland Plant (Apr 20, 2008)

Thanks for all the INFO!!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 20, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> When you said you had lost 11 out of 144, and i saw the pick of that single clone looking shabby, I was wondering if they were dropping like flies and thought it may be useful info. I most def did not say it was the problem. I wouldn't turn them all on until they were actually growing in medium. If you're comfortable with how it's going, then that's all that matters; keep on doing what you're doing.
> 
> That T5 fixture is nice. I know a lot of growers would love to have it. Even at half strength, it's more than i would suggest using for clones. I know it would be perfect for a mother cab.
> 
> You have a lot of plants and you're going to need a serious light. Al B uses 2k over 8x8 and gets good results because he has major overlap working with two hoods. Do you want pounds? Do you see yourself going big like that? I want you to get a 1000w, but only if you're going to use it to the fullest. Thats means inline fans, ducts, holes in things. It's going to cost money to setup, but we know its worth the cost and then some.


Actually AL B has 2-1000 watt lights that were recently put in cool tubes, each one covers two tables that are 820cm square or a little less than 2' 8" square using 770 millimeter pots 23 to 24 per table. He is harvesting 24 oz on average every two weeks and has been making improvements thruout the year and a half I have been following what and how he does it. I set my room up based on the information Al was giving at the time with one difference. I was planning on using 4-600 watt hid lights instead of 2-1000 watt lights. 
I bought the T-5's instead and using 440 watts of light, producing 40,000 lumens I harvested a little over 18 oz. from 12 plants. Now if you choose you can tell me about how they are fluffy buds etc. my customers seem to like it and the money goes to the bank just like it does for the hid buds. 
I have inline fans ducted to the roof of my house and vented out a roof hat, three wall mounted oscillating fans and three floor fans, I control the temp between 70 and 80 lights on and 60 with the lights off. Even have a sexy heater in here for the cold Michigan winters and will install air conditioning and a dehumidifier for summer, of course I have a humidifier for the winter, it keep the rh at 50%. I may even buy some smaller pots, I bought my 8" ones based on what Al thought he was using at the time. I just noticed the 770mm figure the other day. I knew that couldn't be right for the same reason I knew his table size couldn't be right. And you can check with Al if you like, he doesn't like my lights either, but he knows I am one determined sob. And I have a 400 watt hid that I will use for the mothers, it should be adequate for that. VV


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## MstrWilliam (Apr 21, 2008)

go team t5


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 21, 2008)

You know it Mstr, I wasn't busy so I decide a few more clones would be in order. These HempWarp are amazing looking plants. Took 50 clones from them, marked for which plant they came from so when we sex them we can get rid of all the males. If we meet the law of averages this will give us 22 to 30 known female plants. I think this will fill all of the flowering table for the first run now and will start concentrating on setting up a mother plant area, again this will be flood and drain. The blues have been flowering for two weeks now the HempWarp just went into flowering and our clones should be ready in 2 -4 weeks. Two more months we should have it all running, assuming I don't kill the clones of course. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 21, 2008)

YA GO TEAM, WHAT DO THEY CALL US THAT RUN THE 1000W, YA GO THEM GUYS YAAAAAA!!! I JUST DONT GET IT...ITS UP AND OUT I DONT CARE IF ITS DONE BY CANDLE LIGHT AND A MAG. GLASS, ITS THE END PRODUCT.
THERE'S TO MUCH LIGHT ON LIGHT CRIME GOING ON, WITH $$ AND SYSTEM WANTS, " - " SPACE BEING SOME OF THE MAJOR VARIABLES FOR A SET UP.... BUT WERE ALL THERE FOR THE END PRODUCT. AS A FAMOUS SHOE COMP. ONCE SAID "JUST DO IT " AND BEING THE PIC WHORE IM TURNING INTO "AND SHOW IT". THERES SO MANY LIGHTS ON THE MARKET NOW AND MORE COMING THAT WTF, ALL ARE PIC'S DO LOOK THE SAME, LITTLE POTS, BIG ONES, AND TABLES, ALL SYSTEMS I FELL HAVE THAT WORD LABOR INVOLVED I HATE THAT WORD... NOW WE SHOULD ALL KNOW BY NOW THAT DIRTBAG EATS HIS SOILLESS MIX WITH PLAYDO, RIGHT...
SO THE QUESTION: BESIDES TEMP. THE LIGHT OUTPUTS WITCH IN SOME CASES NEEDS TO BE CONTROLLED, WATTS THE DAMMM DIFF. AND DONT TALK THAT LUMMM SHT. TO DIRTBAG, HE JUST SPACES AND STARTS RIPPING PAPER....CRIPLET.

VV A FEW MORE, BETTER GET A LITTLE CLOSER, THATS ANOTHER TRAY FULL BRO. DOOO WE NEED TO HAVE AN INTERVENTION YOUR STARTING TO LOOK LIKE AN ADDICT. A FEW AAAH LOCO GRINGO......YA BORED "I" JUST CLONED A "FEW" MORE. ILL BE CHECKING FOR DARK CIRCLES'. SHE IS GOING TO BE RUNNING YOUR ASS HARD, YOU KEEP MAKING IT MORE CONSTANT.... THE MAN WITH THE PLAN VV THE GROW PROBER.
DB.


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## MstrWilliam (Apr 21, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> YA GO TEAM, WHAT DO THEY CALL US THAT RUN THE 1000W, YA GO THEM GUYS YAAAAAA!!! I JUST DONT GET IT...ITS UP AND OUT I DONT CARE IF ITS DONE BY CANDLE LIGHT AND A MAG. GLASS, ITS THE END PRODUCT.
> THERE'S TO MUCH LIGHT ON LIGHT CRIME GOING ON, WITH $$ AND SYSTEM WANTS, " - " SPACE BEING SOME OF THE MAJOR VARIABLES FOR A SET UP.... BUT WERE ALL THERE FOR THE END PRODUCT.


personally I call 1000w growers - "mentors", because in my state they have been doing it a long, long, long time. So I learn from them. Now, some of the "new breed" have exp'd with t5 in one room, and mh/hps in another. Since he found no diff in final yield, or quality....he is happy to run t5s. Sounds like going green for growing green. 

I agree with you....just get it done....if you can grow it as good, or better.....with less energy wasted......WTF is the prob.....everyone just needs to smoke some of their product, let it open their mind, and stop fucking everyone ele's goat!!!!!

Let's all get on the same mellow!


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## UserFriendly (Apr 21, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Actually AL B has 2-1000 watt lights that were recently put in cool tubes, each one covers two tables that are 820mm square or a little less than 2' 8" square using 770 millimeter pots 23 to 24 per table. He is harvesting 24 oz on average every two weeks and has been making improvements thruout the year and a half I have been following what and how he does it. I set my room up based on the information Al was giving at the time with one difference. I was planning on using 4-600 watt hid lights instead of 2-1000 watt lights.
> I bought the T-5's instead and using 440 watts of light, producing 40,000 lumens I harvested a little over 18 oz. from 12 plants. Now if you choose you can tell me about how they are fluffy buds etc. my customers seem to like it and the money goes to the bank just like it does for the hid buds.
> I have inline fans ducted to the roof of my house and vented out a roof hat, three wall mounted oscillating fans and three floor fans, I control the temp between 70 and 80 lights on and 60 with the lights off. Even have a sexy heater in here for the cold Michigan winters and will install air conditioning and a dehumidifier for summer, of course I have a humidifier for the winter, it keep the rh at 50%. I may even buy some smaller pots, I bought my 8" ones based on what Al thought he was using at the time. I just noticed the 770mm figure the other day. I knew that couldn't be right for the same reason I knew his table size couldn't be right. And you can check with Al if you like, he doesn't like my lights either, but he knows I am one determined sob. And I have a 400 watt hid that I will use for the mothers, it should be adequate for that. VV


OH NO! THE METRIC SYSTEM!  VV, you don't have to tell me about fluffy nugs; I smoke leaves.  I haven't checked up on Al B since last year. He said he was using 4 4x4 trays with 1k per pair. I'll have to hit his thread up shortly.


I see a lot of cats pulling down some primo nugs with fluoros; I just don't see anyone using lots of fluoros for lots of weight. Are you still getting the 4 600's or are you buying more fluoros?


B. THC R&D........


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## HazyEyes (Apr 21, 2008)

MstrWilliam said:


> personally I call 1000w growers - "mentors", because in my state they have been doing it a long, long, long time. So I learn from them. Now, some of the "new breed" have exp'd with t5 in one room, and mh/hps in another. Since he found no diff in final yield, or quality....he is happy to run t5s. Sounds like going green for growing green.
> 
> I agree with you....just get it done....if you can grow it as good, or better.....with less energy wasted......WTF is the prob.....everyone just needs to smoke some of their product, let it open their mind, and stop fucking everyone ele's goat!!!!!
> 
> Let's all get on the same mellow!


O hell yea man i love my T5 i only have a 4ft 4bulber but still its fucking great just does int have a penetration area as the 8bulbs like VV has .. but i swear on them with my heart.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 21, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> OH NO! THE METRIC SYSTEM!  VV, you don't have to tell me about fluffy nugs; I smoke leaves.  I haven't checked up on Al B since last year. He said he was using 4 4x4 trays with 1k per pair. I'll have to hit his thread up shortly.
> 
> 
> I see a lot of cats pulling down some primo nugs with fluoros; I just don't see anyone using lots of fluoros for lots of weight. Are you still getting the 4 600's or are you buying more fluoros?
> ...


The lights I am using are 4'-8 bulb HO T-5's. 440watts, 40,000 lumens, mixed red and blue spectrum bulbs for the entire grow. And I am getting the same result per table that folks are getting with 600 watt hid lights. I have four of the fixtures and four flood and drain tables. Once I get the flowering tables filled with the cuttings I took, they will all have the t-5's over them. The next lights I would buy would be some led's, initially to add side lighting and them over time as the light source for the room. 
I started with three 400 watt hid's made the upgrade to the t-5's as I could afford it, and will upgrade to the led's in time to see the plasma lights start coming out. lol VV


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## MstrWilliam (Apr 21, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I started with three 400 watt hid's made the upgrade to the t-5's as I could afford it, and will upgrade to the led's in time to see the plasma lights start coming out. lol VV


Please note the use of the word "upgrade"

I too await the plasma lights.


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## CaliGurl (Apr 21, 2008)

Nice One VV looks good so far! cant wait to see the end ... Im with you on the t5's I use them for clones, and acutally I am robbing your clone rack idea.. wot can I say great minds think alike  I have my 600 and 400 for veggie tho and my 1000 for flowering but thsoe t5's sure are nice  your blues look good, took me ahwile to get back over here n check em out cant wait for more pics!!!! my hydro set up is a bit delayed but no worries Im in no rush but definately will be using ur DIY tables those will work well for my set up. keep up the nice work


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 21, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> The lights I am using are 4'-8 bulb HO T-5's. 440watts, 40,000 lumens, mixed red and blue spectrum bulbs for the entire grow. And I am getting the same result per table that folks are getting with 600 watt hid lights. I have four of the fixtures and four flood and drain tables. Once I get the flowering tables filled with the cuttings I took, they will all have the t-5's over them. The next lights I would buy would be some led's, initially to add side lighting and them over time as the light source for the room.
> I started with three 400 watt hid's made the upgrade to the t-5's as I could afford it, and will upgrade to the led's in time to see the plasma lights start coming out. lol VV





MstrWilliam said:


> Please note the use of the word "upgrade"
> 
> I too await the plasma lights.



SEE IF ITS GREEN AND MEAN SMOKE THAT SHT.
LED, PLASMA....U GUYS NEED TO STOP THE MADNESS AND GET BACK TO GROWING, DIRTBAG GOT IN THE SOILLESS "AGAIN, HE'S IN THE FRONT YARD WITH A PHATTY..... AND HE'S GOING WITH NUCLEAR REACTOR, THAT OTTA BE SOME SERIOUS WHAT'S...CRIPLET.

HEY USERFRIENDLY LET THAT HIT GO, ILL ROLL ANOTHIER.

VV IS SEX ED OVER BECAUSE OF THE FEM. SEED-S. THE #'S KILL ME...REPS TO THE GROWER 
AND DIRTBAG WANTED TO KNOW IF PPL ARE STARTING TO STAGGER AS THEY TRY AND WALK BY THE HOUSE. SKUNK FIGHT.  DB.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 21, 2008)

you know what they say, when it rains it pours. I thought, well what the hell lets take a look at the HempWarp just for giggles. 8 of the 11 are already showing, two look like they will be there in the next day or two, and the other one, is male. I'll have to ask if these were supposed to be feminized. If only those 8 turn out female, I've got 36 clones from them, that should fill a table? And have few left for mothers is we like the strain. I wonder if they look ok. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm the only one allowed to stagger around here. I work on the theory they can never tell if you are high or not if you are always high they just think its how you norml y are. lmfao. VV


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## UserFriendly (Apr 21, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I'm the only one allowed to stagger around here. I work on the theory they can never tell if you are high or not if you are always high they just think its how you norml y are. lmfao. VV


ROFLMAO! There's my problem; I don't smoke enough weed.


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## UserFriendly (Apr 21, 2008)

Yo VV, How big are your flood trays?


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 21, 2008)

The inside dimensions are 32" by 48" outside is 35" x 51". VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 22, 2008)

Now that we have a couple of clones to work with, excuse my, cuttings to work with lets see how that is going. You can see the mess we have right here, plants are all leaning together, leaves getting tangled. Those skewers cost about a penny a piece and I usually cut them in half. Spend a penny and straighten them early, ' train a child in the way she should grow...'. I decide were I amgoing to prop it pull the plant back and install the prop, then let the cutting go, so it is against the prop. Usually a day or two and it can be removed. You will notice a small gap between your prop and the stem, propis no longer necessary. And here are the HempWarp citting the next day 4/21. Front and top view of one of those, I think they will be awesome. The Berry cuttings are all still with us, so we ave about 160 to 170 cuttings. And my vegetable plants are still holding thier own. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 22, 2008)

LOOK AT THESE TOES. 





IM THINKING PASSION PINK. DB.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 22, 2008)

Shhhittt, I wear those Jesus Board cause me feet are so wide can't get shoes on, not even Birkinstocks are wide enough, talk about barefoot skiing, with me they call it a hydroplane. lol VV


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## UserFriendly (Apr 22, 2008)

I see Al B. talked you into the big clone thing. Those girls are large!

Are those DIY pond liners? I'm diggin' your setup man, very nice.


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## homusubi (Apr 22, 2008)

nice plants, they see healthy out 


saludos desde el cono!!


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 23, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> I see Al B. talked you into the big clone thing. Those girls are large!
> 
> Are those DIY pond liners? I'm diggin' your setup man, very nice.


 Some of them are tall, none of them match the stem sizes Al cuts. Thats why he develops the mothers. I have enough clones to choose some mothers now and I have a few plants to judge them by. All I need to do now is build or buy a table for them, and I finally have the room arranged in a workable fashion. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 24, 2008)

I seem to recall we have some flowering blue berry plants. Here are the one's I have labeled NothernBerry and SKunkBerry, A SkunkBerry and a Northern Berry and the only BlueBerry that I didn't fookup next to the NorthernBerry. ANd final the 2 BlueBerry Plant, quite a difference. Northern's are between 79 and 100cm. The SkunkBerry are from 51 to 79cm ANd the healthy Blue Berry is 79 cm as well. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 24, 2008)

They say that a trimeter is only as effective as the probe is clean. Depending on your water source you should clean and calibrate your tri-meter every week as a minimum.
All of this information came with my tri-meter. Here is the probe, the probe "cleaning tool" and the cleaner. The probe goes into the end of the cleaning tool after you have put a small Amount of cleaner in it, give it a few twists, and then (Sorry I am not going to try and spray itr and take a picture at the same time thank you) rinse it off well, with fresh tap water. The cleaning solution can be used on the face of the ec probe as well, it doesn't take much, it does come out fast, may want to use a q-tip to dip a little out. I will next time.
So now we have a clean in accurate probe, and we need to fix or 'Calibrate' that. Sounds intelligent, after you do it a few times its not all that impressive. Here is the calibration kit I use, the little veils don't hold much, I think Earl estimated less than 50cents/ week.
First put your probe in the ph 7 solution. It reads 7.2, see told you its inaccurate now, we know the ph 7 solution is ph 7 (duh) so now we need to tell the meter that it is 7. SO..this is really intense now. we push and hold the buttonm that says ph calibrate until it flashes and clears the reading and then..... we push the button that says ph7, telling the trimeter, hey stupid this is ph 7. Now the next step goes the same way except for the solution we use, the buttons we push are the same either way. If your water tends to have a ph above 7 then you will want ph 10. Mine is below 7, I use ro, so I use ph 4. Same process either way. Put your probe in the ph 10 or 4, let the reading stabilize, see its wrong again. No stupid ph calibrate, flash. then ph4/ph 10 calibrate. Bang, ok you are right its really ph 4. now leave me alone for a while, put me back in that nice 'fresh' tap water til you need me again. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 24, 2008)

Now we want to make sure our clones have water, but not too much water. We think our rapid rooters are a good medium flood and drain, so here is our flood tray, and with an inch of water, place the whole tray in it for about 10 minutes then do the HempWarp. You can see these plants are leaning, The doc can fix that, the doc can't fix this and he already did fix this one, its the one we wrapped the hook around, now we can carefully remove it. I don't know if it will show up well enough in this picture. The difference in colors at the end of the stem shows they were not planted deep enough. This would be considered operator error, and if you have the cloning powders avaialble to you, you could eliminate this possibility. We lost 4 more total, I think that puts us at 179 now form a start of from 194 original. You can see some of these are quite tall and we are hoping the will progress more quickly than some of the others. We would like to think we can get them ready to flower in four weeks, at least enough to fill 2 tables, whatever that is. We think that will be no more than 30/table so if some of these lag a little that would be just fine. As long as they lag into the two week cycle, allowing for the motheres to be developed. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 24, 2008)

Dirtbag Will Be Following This Lead, Never Thought To Go Big On The Clones, Mine Already Were, From Othiers Comm's. But Damm Vv Very Very Nice. Dirtbag Is At Desk. Othiers Tarty... Shame. Hey Vv Just A Guess But The Time Cut For Cloning Such A Monster Must Cut Aleast A Wk "+" Off Grow... Your Thoughts On This. Db.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 24, 2008)

Check out Al B Fuct's cloning thread. He takes clones about 9 or ten inches 4 to 5.5 mm stems. These are not going to cut the growth time that would take a mother. I am hoping I can get some of these ready to fl;owerin six weeks Al
s are readyto flower in two weeks, no vegging time. clone, get roots flower. Slick huh. VV


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## Earl (Apr 25, 2008)

I got a make a couple of suggestions about your pH meter.

1 If you can, leave the probe in the rez full time.
The more you move it, 
more likely it is to lose calibration.
You should only move it when you take it out 
to calibrate it once every couple of weeks.

2. Don't store your probe in tapwater.
You should rinse with tapwater, but you should store in the pH4 cal fluid.
This will increase the life of the probe 
by keeping it in contact with high ionic fluid.

3. pH 10 should never be used by hydro growers.
always calibrate at pH 4 and 7.
pH 10 is for waste treatment facilities 
and pH 10 has a very short shelf life.

When your probe wears out, 
buy a new one on ebay with a 10' cord.

You will need a new probe every other grow.

I just bought a PinPoint to back-up my Milwaukee.

My Milwaukee took a dump 
and is in for warranty repair.

I am on my second probe on the Milwaukee pH meter.



.


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## UserFriendly (Apr 25, 2008)

I would be pissed if I had to buy a probe every other grow.


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## Earl (Apr 25, 2008)

I am pissed if I am probed during any grow.

Buying new probes is just the cost of doing hydro the right way.

.


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 25, 2008)

I Still Love That Word....hehehehehehehe!!!  Db.
Life Is Full Of Needs And Wants, I Do Agree With Earl There Is A Cost To Doing It The Right Way.... Leading By Example. Reps To The Prober, Getting It Done And Doing It Right.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 25, 2008)

Wait a minute, all of the above has got to slow down, my stomach can't take it. and I cant shit worth a type when Im' laughing so hard. Give an old man time to ctch up. VV


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## UserFriendly (Apr 25, 2008)

Do those probes even have a warranty? How long is one of your grows? I've had my Sunleaves sticks for over a year with no problems. Went to calibrate a short while ago; no need, these things are on point...... muahahah!


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 26, 2008)

Earl's points are none the less valid. He is not saying the probe won't work after one grow he is saying it is liable to slowly losing accuracy, and for him the cost of a new probe increases the yield he gets. The probes don't suddenly go bad at the end of the warranty period, they do it slowly, to the point were they are useless and must be replaced. With the system he is using and the height he is getting its pretty hard to say he isn't getting results. Did you look at that monster he has, that bitch is one big bitch. I measured, his plant sits 20" off the floor and that is a 9' ceiling. He has to get on a ladder to reach it. VV


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## UserFriendly (Apr 26, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> With the system he is using and the height he is getting its pretty hard to say he isn't getting results.


So don't say it.


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## Earl (Apr 26, 2008)

UserFriendly said:


> Do those probes even have a warranty? How long is one of your grows? I've had my Sunleaves sticks for over a year with no problems. Went to calibrate a short while ago; no need, these things are on point...... muahahah!


What is a Sunleaves sticks?

My Milwaukee meter has a two year warranty.

The PinPoint meter has a three year warranty

Probes have a very limited warranty,
but Milwaukee sent me a new probe 
to test my meter.

Probes are $5o.
$25/grow.

.

.


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## UserFriendly (Apr 26, 2008)

Earl, do you grow sea of green or what?

I should have called these pens, not sticks
Sunleaves :: Sunleaves pH Expert Plus
Sunleaves :: Sunleaves TDS Expert Plus


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## Earl (Apr 26, 2008)

My Afghan grow was basically a SOG





This is just three plants in the Space Shuttle.

I started off with cheap $30 pen meters.





They were good for about one grow.
They always failed in the middle of the second grow.

That is a pretty pricey pen meter and replacement probe.





For $115 plus $70 for replacement probes.
this meter is only accurate to .1

How often do you calibrate it?

How is your yield?

After two cheap pen meters I bought a trimeter $200
hoping for more accuracy and reliability.





The tds part failed first,
and the accuracy is only .1
This was not a smart purchase.

Then I got a Milwaukee pH meter 
on ebay for $80, 
with a 2 year warranty, 
and the replacement probes 
are only $50.
I also got a Milwaukee TDS meter.





The Milwaukee pH meter, 
has been sent in for warranty repair 
after two grows in 8 months.

So I just bought a PinPoint meter on ebay $80, 
and now I'll have a back-up on my next grow.

I can't grow without knowing the pH within .01 

PinPoint is American made, 
with .01 accuracy,
and a 2 yr warranty.






American Marine is proud to introduce PINPOINT, 
the only truly accurate and affordable 
continuous pH monitoring system.

Powered by a 9-volt battery (not included). 
PINPOINT will continuously monitor and display pH for months 
before battery replacement is visually indicated on the display as "LOBAT."

.


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## Hubert (Apr 26, 2008)

Great Journal *VictorVIcious*!, I'll definetely be following along now that I've found it


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 27, 2008)

Hubert said:


> Great Journal *VictorVIcious*!, I'll definetely be following along now that I've found it


Glad to have you stop by, a person with your experience will be expected to offer any helpful suggestions or options to consider. I'm still climbing that hill. VV


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## SnowWhite (Apr 27, 2008)

Earl dude...you are the meter man! hahaha! LOL. Actually, looking at your setup/plants etc....you are just, THE MAN! 

VV, things looking good mate. Nice growing!


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## Earl (Apr 27, 2008)

I need to see a pix of the Hempwarp

.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 27, 2008)

Earl said:


> I need to see a pix of the Hempwarp
> 
> .


Here you go Earl. Height varies from just over 12" to 18", vigorous healthy plants in my opinion. Ended with 6 females. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Apr 27, 2008)

Earl said:


> I need to see a pix of the Hempwarp
> 
> .




I SECOND THAT, ALL THIS TALK OF PROBING, DB. NEEDS PLANT PIC'S NOW.... EARL HOW MANY JOURNALS ARE U RUNNING, U GOT PIC'S EVERYWERE THAT SHT. IS HUGH !!!!!!!!!!! IT DAMMM NEAR TAKES UP YOUR JOURNAL AND VV.'S  HEHEHEHEHE!!!!
PROBE. PROBE. PROBE. CIG.

DIRTBAG.


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## GrnMan (Apr 27, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Here you go Earl. Height varies from just over a 12" to 18", vigorous healthy plants in my opinion. Ended with 6 females. VV


Hey VV, in that third pic one of the plants is curling up. Is this a normal thing? I've seen someone asking about this and there seems to be mixed answers. 

From everything I've read, it could be normal..as they are happy and taking in all the light.

or

There is a MG problem, most likely a deficiency.

or

Heat issues, it's too hot.

What are your thoughts?


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 27, 2008)

That is the way these plants have always been during lights on until about 1 hour before lights off. If you think the point up now you should see the just before lights on. The one in the front with the light green color is the BlueBerry I fu as a seedling, it is still gaining more green then it had. I have though about giving it a dose of epsom salt but other than the light color the plant appears healthy. Its about 20" tall, the bottom four nodes were trimmed of when it went into flowering and there are 8 nodes to the top of the plant, soo...... I thought it might improve in color when I flushed, didn't seem to make a difference. VV


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## Earl (Apr 27, 2008)

This is what Mg lock looks like.
It starts like this.





and progresses






If you are using RO, then you do not have Mg lock.

I think your plants look perfect.

The leaves point up, 
because they love the light.

Please, don't ever add epsom salt to your grow.

.


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## HazyEyes (Apr 27, 2008)

Wow i used epsom salt once and well it did do anygood lets say haha


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## GrnMan (Apr 27, 2008)

Ahh, thanks earl. No, I don't have a problem yet. I was just helping someone else out and when I googled it, I got different answers. But this is good to know. That's one nasty looking problem!


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## HazyEyes (Apr 27, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Here you go Earl. Height varies from just over 12" to 18", vigorous healthy plants in my opinion. Ended with 6 females. VV


Damn VV those look so fucking nice... this might be a noob question but i have to ask haha... you get 9 blades to each leaf, i only get 7 is this due to better overall health of the plant and good genetics.?


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## Earl (Apr 27, 2008)

Here is arcinNsparkins HempstarXTexadatimewarp current grow.

He is about the same stage you are.

.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 27, 2008)

Some are 9 some are 7, some less, don't know if there is a reason, seems like GK mentioned something about it once. I think the HempWarp look just about perfect, and they are just one week into flowering, they have always had that profile, like the texada time warp does. The one with the problem is a BlueBerry Plant that is in the third week of flowering and is about the same height as the HempWarp. The BlueBerry I didn't fu is a little over 30". VV


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## HazyEyes (Apr 27, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Some are 9 some are 7, some less, don't know if there is a reason, seems like GK mentioned something about it once. I think the HempWarp look just about perfect, and they are just one week into flowering, they have always had that profile, like the texada time warp does. The one with the problem is a BlueBerry Plant that is in the third week of flowering and is about the same height as the HempWarp. The BlueBerry I didn't fu is a little over 30". VV


hmm ok ill check GK things. iv heard that Blueberry is a very short plant but wow did not know they were that much; i would love to breed like a super blueberry plant, mix like a blueberry male with a high yielding female like big bud, or even medi bud see what one would come up with.

HMMM sounds like a future project


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## chucktownskunk (Apr 29, 2008)

vv the shunkberry only gets a little over 2ft and then stops yes they are a short plant!!


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 29, 2008)

chucktownskunk said:


> vv the shunkberry only gets a little over 2ft and then stops yes they are a short plant!!


*Northernberry (indoor/outdoor)* 

F1 hybrid. Northern Lights #5 (BCSC) Female pollinated with a Blueberry(SAG) male. Potent, sticky and productive. Very popular. 60/40* indica/sativa. Eight-nine weeks flowering indoors. Medium-med/tall height.


*Skunkberry (indoor/outdoor)* 

F1 hybrid. Skunk (Peak) female pollinated with Blueberry (SAG) male. Im tempted to say this is our best strain. Large juicy tops with that fantastic high most crave. Easy to grow, fert tolerant, commercial strain. 60/40* indica/sativa. Eight-nine weeks flowering indoors. Med/tall-tall height​
This is the information from Peak Seeds. They say the NorthernBerry's are not as tall as the SkunkBerry. Well, the lights just came on, have to go do some work. VV


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## GrnMan (Apr 29, 2008)

So you get your seeds from Peak Seeds? I'm guessing they have been real reliable eh?

I'm looking for a place that has a quick turn around or is very reliable, for my next grow.


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## nowstopwhining (Apr 29, 2008)

Skunkberry has my mouth watering...I cant wait to see it in full flower.


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## chucktownskunk (Apr 29, 2008)

3 of my skunkberry popped up and another is about to!!


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## GrnMan (Apr 29, 2008)

Mr. VV....top of the morning to ya!

I just wanted to let you know that the first link in your sig is dead. Not sure if you knew that or not, but yea..it's DEAD.

Looken good...


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 30, 2008)

GrnMan said:


> Mr. VV....top of the morning to ya!
> 
> I just wanted to let you know that the first link in your sig is dead. Not sure if you knew that or not, but yea..it's DEAD.
> 
> Looken good...


Yes I did get these from Peak Seeds, I have only ordered seeds twice, different companies, different strains. Yea I see that one is giving a 404 error. Nothing I can do about that, and it is about dead, all of the plants from that grow are hanging or in jars curing now. VV


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## HazyEyes (Apr 30, 2008)

VV i was talking to someone i know the other day and he told me that the T'5 only has good light penetration about 6 to 10 inch's from the light is this true?

if so i got alot of triming to do!
gotta open up those bud sites.


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## Azadeh (Apr 30, 2008)

Hello V!
I have some questions I hope you can answer. Why do you have so many nutrients? I have only Ionic Bloom and Ionic grow, is it to little? What do you think I should get additionally? I am growing for the first time and don't know much.
My seedling are now three weeks old and sitting in rockwool in canna coco. I have a 400 MH lamp 2 feet above and use 1/4 Ionic growth which I have been using since start. They are doing good, so I don't know if I should lower the lamp or give them more nutes or just do nothing. I give them 100 ml water every day with nutes. Is it to much nutes? Any help would be appreciated. 
How are your plants by the way?
Azadeh


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 30, 2008)

> Azadeh said:
> 
> 
> > Hello V!
> ...


Ok, yes I see your are hand watering. Are you getting any runoff with that amount of water? Try something a little different for a day or two. Give them one good dose of water, make sure you get some runoff, 10% is a good amount. Then don't water until the need it. How will you know? Pick up the pot, after it has drained the day you water it good and get a feel for your plant, feel the 'weight'. When that pot 'feels light, and the plant is just starting to droop a little, its time to water again, and know we know exactly how much water we need to fill the pot. 10 % less than the last time or that same amount to get that same 10% runoff. 
You have probably not been overwatering with the amount your are giving them, but the method your using retards early root development, your roots don't have to grow looking for water the want to stay close to the source of the water, the top of your pot. Not good, not bad, just room for improvment. Its also a good idea to give them 1/2 the amount of water and then wait for about 1/2 hour before giving the rest. 

You have a fine start or your plants wouldn't look good. Now, you need to start a journal of your own and repeat all of the pertinent information, YOu will want to include pictures of course, its almost required. We have a sort of Grow Journal Competition going on right now, Garden Knowm is heading that one up you will want to check that out, Newbie's are encouraged to participate. The idea is to create a journal anyone could follow, one some one else could replicate. I must not be doing to well with that, I tried to explain all of this while I was doing it. Guess I'll have to start a new journal for the contest. VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 1, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> VV i was talking to someone i know the other day and he told me that the T'5 only has good light penetration about 6 to 10 inch's from the light is this true?
> 
> if so i got alot of triming to do!
> gotta open up those bud sites.


Define 'good light penetration'. 1 zip/plant 20 plants, 1 1/2 zip/plant 12 plants, same size table, t-5's all the way thru flowering, he is full of sh**, but I mean that in a nice way. VV


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## GrnMan (May 1, 2008)

Azadeh said:


> Hello V!
> I have some questions I hope you can answer. Why do you have so many nutrients? I have only Ionic Bloom and Ionic grow, is it to little? What do you think I should get additionally? I am growing for the first time and don't know much.
> My seedling are now three weeks old and sitting in rockwool in canna coco. I have a 400 MH lamp 2 feet above and use 1/4 Ionic growth which I have been using since start. They are doing good, so I don't know if I should lower the lamp or give them more nutes or just do nothing. I give them 100 ml water every day with nutes. Is it to much nutes? Any help would be appreciated.
> How are your plants by the way?
> Azadeh


Yes...listen to him with this watering thing. I thought I was doing good by watering every 5-7 days. Yes this schedule was fine, but I wasn't giving them enough. Drenched those babies...don't be scared.

What's going on VV?


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## VictorVIcious (May 1, 2008)

well. yesterday I replanted a couple of cuttings. Have 159 that I haven't killed yet so it took a little while to do. Now I need to get the flood tables fixed for top watering for a few days, make those roots grow, and start nutes . I bought some different pots, been thinking about that for a long time now and finally decided I could use the ones that are for Emily's Garden, 6" sq, which is a nice size, uses less medium than my 8" round ones. Problem is they are a type of net pot that normally has a cover so it doesn't matter if the roots grow out the sides of the pots. I think I have a way figured to make them work though. 35 of them will fit my tables, at least in vegging they will. AND if I keep concentrating on creating that 'sea of green' by trimming off the bottoms, maybe.....
I will try and get some of that posted later. VV


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## GoodFriend (May 1, 2008)

cut pieces of panda plastic to size and rap around sides, leaving bottom holes open for flooding...

a couple decent sized rubberbands or maybe zipties wrapped around the panda plastic would keep it held on to the pots... 


i dunno... just an idea =]


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## B. THC R+D (May 1, 2008)

CRIPLET HERE, IF THEY CANT UNDERSTAND IT, THEY HAVEN'T READ IT...., TAKE A TOKE AND RE-READ. ITS A CONTEST WINNER!!!! FOR GOING BIG, AND HOW TO GET THERE, WITH PATIENCE. SHT. IF DIRTBAG GETS IT, COME ON PPL.
"PIC'S ALMOST REQUIRED " ???????????????? SHAME, SHAME.
HEY AZADEH, WHEN I CAME ON THE SITE, I WAS VV'S 3G HIT, THE MAN TOLD ME WERE'S THE PORN,,,,,"IT ALMOST REQUIRED" IS A LIE 
WERE PRETTY MUCH CHEAP WHORES FOR IT HERE, DONT BE FOOLED BY THE LINGO, THE MAN PROB. SHORTED OUT HIS KEY BOARD, 'WITH DROOL" SO MANY TIMES BY NOW IVE LOST TRACK. IVE BEEN ON THE SITE SINCE FEB. AND IM ON MY THIRD ONE, I NOW JUST BUY ONE WITH EVERY NEW GROW RUN.LOL......PIC'S YA, U GOTTEM, GETTEM ON BRO.
OH YA WELCOME!!! YOU CAME TO THE RIGHT MAN, GET READY TO GET GOOD AT WHAT YOUR DOING. PULL UP A DESK, GET THE NOTEPAD THERE, AND WATCH OUT FOR DB. HE'S THE ONE UNDER THE TABLE RIPPING PAPER MUMBLING SOMETHING ABOUT "FORIEGN EXCHANGE PROGRAM, CANT COMPETE, HIS CLASS UNDER FUNDED N RAMPS.......MF-ING BIGTOE, NO FT HERE FCC BAN THOSE RELEASES.....SUNOFFTHBEECH%^$$#)*(&^#!MUMBLMMUMB,LMAOROFL.

THE JOURNAL WITH CLASS, ITS A WINNER VV.
WITH AGE COMES EXPERIENCE, WISDOM, PATIENCE AND THE LITTLE BLUE PILL. DIRTBAG.


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## VictorVIcious (May 1, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> cut pieces of panda plastic to size and rap around sides, leaving bottom holes open for flooding...
> 
> a couple decent sized rubberbands or maybe zipties wrapped around the panda plastic would keep it held on to the pots...
> 
> ...


All I did was leave the plastic bags that came with each pot. I pulled them up and cut the bottom off the bag, threw the coco in, when I put a cutting in I would just pull the bag up until I knew the bottom was open. They only have a couple of holes in the corners on the side. They call them net pots, they aren't really. The way I figure it, if I ever wanted to transport one of these cutting, I could hold the bag around the top, loosen and turn it over like you were going to transplant it, tie the bottom of the bag shut, bingo, clones to go. Like a big mac with that? 
well, I have a few extra's right now. Ya gotta luv old people. VV


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## GoodFriend (May 1, 2008)

hahaha that was the most detailed description of what you do but for some reason i still don't quite know what yer talking bout... hahaha


pics?? =p


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## VictorVIcious (May 1, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> hahaha that was the most detailed description of what you do but for some reason i still don't quite know what yer talking bout... hahaha
> 
> 
> pics?? =p


Well, I suppose. If you look at Emilys Garden it makes sense. They call these net pots, the only place there is a problem in these holes on the side. So, each one had a plastic bag in it seperating it from the next one. I cut the bottom out of the plastic bag, and pushed it back down to the bottom of the pot, left the top of the bag over the outside edge of the pot, filled them like half way with coco and when I transplanted, I simple pulled the bag down to the outside of the pot which pulled the bag up from the bottom allowing it to drain. The plastic should stop roots from going thru those holes. VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 1, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> hahaha that was the most detailed description of what you do but for some reason i still don't quite know what yer talking bout... hahaha
> 
> 
> pics?? =p


Well, I suppose. If you look at Emilys Garden it makes sense. They call these net pots, the only place there is a problem in these holes on the side. So, each one had a plastic bag in it seperating it from the next one. I cut the bottom out of the plastic bag, and pushed it back down to the bottom of the pot, left the top of the bag over the outside edge of the pot, filled them like have way with coco and when I transplanted, I simple pulled the bag down to the outside of the pot which pulled the bag up from the bottom allowing it to drain. VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 1, 2008)

I don't know what has happened, I looked it was there, looked again it was gone, one more time. VV


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## GrnMan (May 1, 2008)

Is that one big bud? 

Holy smokes Batman...we got a big one here.


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## GoodFriend (May 1, 2008)

they call those net pots????

huh...
from the pic i can't see much of a "net"... hehe
and good lookin bud my friend!
what strains are we working with these days anyways?


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## HazyEyes (May 1, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I don't know what has happened, I looked it was there, looked again it was gone, one more time. VV


is that plastic in that pot?

Plz explain teacher


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## GoodFriend (May 1, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> is that plastic in that pot?
> 
> Plz explain teacher


he just did...

its to block the holes that are in the sides of the pots...


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## HazyEyes (May 2, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> he just did...
> 
> its to block the holes that are in the sides of the pots...


ooooo i missed that part. thanks for slaping me across the face lumber.


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## HazyEyes (May 2, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> So, each one had a plastic bag in it seperating it from the next one.


Damn i feel stupid


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## Azadeh (May 2, 2008)

Thanks Victor!
I will follow your guide lines. Unfortunately I can't afford a ppm or PH pen at this point. I am using a PH kit. The PH is somewhere between 5.5 and 6.0. 
Its pretty warm in my grow room, around 30C so I'm worried about lowering the lamp, it does not have a cooling device. But i just purchased a fan that might help a little.
I have been giving the plants water every day until about 10% comes out of the bottom. 
I'm going to look at the contest, thanks for letting me know.
here is a picture of my four seedling. Two white widow and two Mexicana. The smallest one I planted later than the rest.
Have a nice day!


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## Azadeh (May 2, 2008)

Sorry my seedlings are 2 weeks old not 3. I have no idea how I could have mixed that up giving that I'm not even stoned.


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## VictorVIcious (May 2, 2008)

Azadeh said:


> Thanks Victor!
> I will follow your guide lines. Unfortunately I can't afford a ppm or PH pen at this point. I am using a PH kit. The PH is somewhere between 5.5 and 6.0.
> Its pretty warm in my grow room, around 30C so I'm worried about lowering the lamp, it does not have a cooling device. But i just purchased a fan that might help a little.
> I have been giving the plants water every day until about 10% comes out of the bottom.
> ...


Well, thanx for the pictures, we like pictures. The ph test kit is what I used for the first year or so, and I got away with it. I did purchase the ppm meter, but I am using flood and drain hydro. Its not as forgiving. I like to take credit for the method, I got it from Garden Knowm's (SeeMoreBuds) book. 
You will have to deal with the temperatures. Yes a fan will help, you also need 'fresh air', and if this is being done in a confined space you will need to cool that furnace seperate from the rest of your air handling. THe Mexicana may be breed for higher temperature climate's, I am not familiar with it, its a guess on my part.
All of this should be a part of _your_ journal. Posts like this are what gets your journal read. Most of the experienced growers, and I am not one, look for new journals to see if folks are getting good advice. I think they kinda figure I can hold my own, so they don't visit here much. 
What you have been doing looks like it is working just fine, your plants look nice and healthy. Any thing you can do to improve the conditions will help. If you keep the 7 basics in balance you will be 99% succesful. I look forward to following your journal, be sure and send Garden Knowm the link to it. VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 2, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> Damn i feel stupid


No reason to, Happens to me often. I just figure its a 'stoner moment'. roflmfao. I mean your screen name is Hazy Eyes? VV


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## B. THC R+D (May 2, 2008)

VERY NICE VV',, SO BIG.





JUMP AROUND THE CORNER AND SCARE HER, SHE'LL JUMP IN THERE TO HIDE, 
THEN TEEEEEASE HER OUT... GO BIG, WALK TRUE, OR GO HOME. I WOULD LIKE THE POINT OUT THE "WWWWIIIIDDDDEEEE" MOUTH JARS"


AND THE PIC OF THE TREES...DAMMM






CAN THE "T" SERIES DOUBLE AS RESES LIGHTING. ITS TIME. LOL 
I CANT BELIEVE SHE'S HOLDING THAT BALLAST UP DAMM. MINE STILL JUST SITTING THERE...

I LIKE THE PLANT CONDOM, WITH THE RESAVIOR TIP CUT OUT, ARE WE ON SEX ED AGAIN...??? VERY INTERESTED IN THIS, THOUGHTS ABOUT POSS. MOLD BUILD UP OVER LONG TERM. ??? THESE WILL BE TOP WATERED FOR HOW LONG..? CRIPLET BRAIN NEEDING FOR INFO. LATE TO CLASS READ MAT. UNDERSTAND, EVEN DB. AND WE WERE SMOKING.... PICKING BRAIN. BT. DB.


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## VictorVIcious (May 2, 2008)

That will depend on the plants. As soon as I feel they can take the flood and drain I will go to that, I like to be at full strength nutes by then. These cutting were taken on the 18 and the 20th, so not quite 2 weeks. I still have to transplant 20 more into the new pots, just picked up another case of them today. Here are pictures from a few minutes ago. This is one table of cuttings mostly skunkberry, and the other table has the mothers along with 15 more cuttings. Table 2 is pretty much NorthernBerry, these are in their fourth week of flowering, The skunkberry on table one are four weeks also and the HempWarp are just about two weeks flowering. Don't want to get bored so I have some vegtables growing with these cuttings, and I have some HempWarp cuttings as well. Watering them by hand requires some equipment, There are 159 of them and 35 vegtable plants. I picked up a little fountain kit at Wally world with a 600 gph pump, $35.00 including a 20 gallon container, a push hose fitting $5.00 and a 25' flex hose, $12.00, an assortment of spray nozzles from Sams club this one has a shutoff valve right on it, $11.00. All of that goes into the res I mixed for them, 1/4 strength nutes and additives ph 5.6. Took less than 15 minutes to water them. I am just letting it run to waste. Of course having a concrete floor helps. I will get caught up some time. VV


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## HazyEyes (May 2, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> That will depend on the plants. As soon as I feel they can take the flood and drain I will go to that, I like to be at full strength nutes by then. These cutting were taken on the 18 and the 20th, so not quite 2 weeks. I still have to transplant 20 more into the new pots, just picked up another case of them today. Here are pictures from a few minutes ago. This is one table of cuttings mostly skunkberry, and the other table has the mothers along with 15 more cuttings. Table 2 is pretty much NorthernBerry, these are in their fourth week of flowering, The skunkberry on table one are four weeks also and the HempWarp are just about two weeks flowering. Don't want to get bored so I have some vegtables growing with these cuttings, and I have some HempWarp cuttings as well. Watering them by hand requires some equipment, There are 159 of them and 35 vegtable plants. I picked up a little fountain kit at Wally world with a 600 gph pump, $35.00 including a 20 gallon container, a push hose fitting $5.00 and a 25' flex hose, $12.00, an assortment of spray nozzles from Sams club this one has a shutoff valve right on it, $11.00. All of that goes into the res I mixed for them, 1/4 strength nutes and additives ph 5.6. Took less than 15 minutes to water them. I am just letting it run to waste. Of course having a concrete floor helps. I will get caught up some time. VV


WoW i Realy like that watering hose with that pump i need to get one of those 

VV you should send one of those skunkberry clones my way


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## sportsguy1598 (May 2, 2008)

Lookin good as usual VV...man I wish I could get something goin like you have...but til then I'll be planning out my little stealth cab grow and I'll be happy doin it!


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## SnowWhite (May 3, 2008)

yeah man, that watering hose is sweet! I've never seen a kit like that over here in the UK.  I want one.

I've been looking at buying the bits and making my own 'kit'. 600gph pump you say, hmmm, what's that in litres......Google?


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## SnowWhite (May 3, 2008)

fucking hell.....2200 lph! that's quite big! But to create good enough pressure for the hose/rose, I guess it needs to be.


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## VictorVIcious (May 3, 2008)

Yes, that part is often misunderstood, the 600gph rating is with one foot of rise, not 25' of hose. I have found you can buy a pond kit for less than you could buy the parts in it seperatly. VV


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## B. THC R+D (May 3, 2008)

I Just Love That Hose Vv..... Auto Waterer-erererer Ok Im At My Desk.

"slap" Dont Touch The Chair.....db.


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## VictorVIcious (May 4, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> I Just Love That Hose Vv..... Auto Waterer-erererer Ok Im At My Desk.
> 
> "slap" Dont Touch The Chair.....db.


I didn't want to touch, I just wanna go for a ride in it. LOLFooking thing cost as much as my car. I am going to have to try your brownie recipe. Folks have warned my about them, I'll get some of those safety mats from Sams to put on the concrete floor, don't wanna break it fallin'. VV


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## B. THC R+D (May 4, 2008)

Oh...lmfao. There Like Getting Stomed "im Leavin It" For The Very First Time. Crazy, I Know Bikers With Track Marks That Call Them Sir.....lol Db.


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## B. THC R+D (May 5, 2008)

Not To Get Off The Sub. Of Face Walking, Not Making The Olyimpics. That Hose Thinge, Just Toss In The Res, And Water. Criplet, Thinking Hard.
Your #'s Amaze Me, My Little Sht. But Constint, And Then Theres Yours. I Would Love To Have The Body To Join U In The Style Of Grow. Its Waist High, And Less Bending Over. That's Lazy,,,, Lol Db.


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## HazyEyes (May 5, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> Not To Get Off The Sub. Of Face Walking, Not Making The Olyimpics. That Hose Thinge, Just Toss In The Res, And Water. Criplet, Thinking Hard.
> Your #'s Amaze Me, My Little Sht. But Constint, And Then Theres Yours. I Would Love To Have The Body To Join U In The Style Of Grow. Its Waist High, And Less Bending Over. That's Lazy,,,, Lol Db.



A it saves your back


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## blinkykush (May 5, 2008)

VV, nice grow man. I was wondering where did you get that tray and lid or "prop" that you started the seeds in. I just think it would solve my problems. i cant get my seeds to sprout no where near as effective as you do. I dont have a t5 but use a 400mh for veging and just keep the seedlings far enough away


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## VictorVIcious (May 6, 2008)

blinkykush said:


> VV, nice grow man. I was wondering where did you get that tray and lid or "prop" that you started the seeds in. I just think it would solve my problems. i cant get my seeds to sprout no where near as effective as you do. I dont have a t5 but use a 400mh for veging and just keep the seedlings far enough away


That one came with one of the early package deals I bought at one of the big box stores. Its more square on the sides. My hydro shop carries one that is better, I think it was under $10.00. I only use it for seeds, as soon as they are above ground, they need to breath more than they need the humidity. I would not use a 400watt anything for seeds. Its way overkill until at least two weeks. The lights I have in the clone stand I built are 2' regular t-12 or t-8 fixtures, bought a Meijers on sale for $12.00, including the bulbs. It would save you that amount in electricity. 
I have a fair success rate with seeds because I don't plant them unless the germinate, they already have a root, and unless I damage that root, it will sprout. I plant them so that I can see the top of the seed right at the top of the rapid rooters, or whatever I am using at the time, all of them work in my opinion. 
Thanx for the kind comments, stop by again later, I am just going to post were everything is now. VV


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## blinkykush (May 6, 2008)

VV, I went ahead today and bought a 4ft 8bulb t5 so i wont be putting no 400 on them was wondering your prefered way to germinate seeds? and do you hit them with your floros right away after planting the seeds? thanks for your help and patience....So much i need to learn


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## HazyEyes (May 6, 2008)

Germinate them with just a damp paper towel put the seeds in it fold it up and put it in a ziplock bag and keep in a dark place, its realy up 2 u man if u wana hit them with light right away i did, so when they do pop up they get light asap.


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## blinkykush (May 7, 2008)

cool thanks for the advice, do you use a heating pad under the ziplock bag, or just post them up in room temp?


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## VictorVIcious (May 7, 2008)

blinkykush said:


> cool thanks for the advice, do you use a heating pad under the ziplock bag, or just post them up in room temp?


A heating pad is not necessary for seeds until they germinate and get planted. SOme say it helps, I am not one of them. I didn't have good luck with a heat mat. And the thermostat for them is like $50.00. If I ever see one of the good ones made of neoprene I will buy one and the thermostat. 
With the 8 bulb, turn on only 1/2 of the fixture for the first week or so, i alteranated the two switches. If you think about duplicating nature, springtime isn't that light and hot, that comes with summer. VV


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## blinkykush (May 7, 2008)

gotcha, I only left 3 of the center lights on. I felt the soil and it felt cold, so i put the t5 bulbs about 4 inches from the soil top. my temp is 79 humidity is 43%. will this be ok to warm up rhe soil a bit possibly promote sprouts? Thank you for this help


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## VictorVIcious (May 7, 2008)

The plants don't need extra heat at the above ground level, 70 to 78 is fine for them, its the root zone that can be a little warmer. Check thru Al B Fucts thread on cloning, the teperatures that he discusses would be the same after the seeds have been planted, he explains it very well. VV


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## blinkykush (May 8, 2008)

k will do


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## B. THC R+D (May 9, 2008)

DIRTBAG SITTING IN "CLASS ROOM" EYE BALLING PROBE!!! HAS ALREADY RE-READ MATERIAL, AND IS READY TO GO....WERE'S THE V"..... NO ANSWER, DB ROLLS TO THE TEACH'S DESK. SMOKES, ROLLING PAPERS',.....CHAULK,
WHAT'S THAT....
DIRTBAG ROLLS THE DOOR "LOOKING OVER SHULDER"

HEY VV, I JUST NOTICED THE OTHIER DAY THAT THE  GUY LOOKS LIKE ME WORKING THE CHAIR. LMAO. DB.

CANT WAIT FOR NEXT CLASS, HOPE U GOT SOME TIME TO YOURSELF THIS WEEKEND PLANT WHORE.... SAVE SOME FOR US, GEEEEEEEEESSS. BT.


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## chucktownskunk (May 9, 2008)

vv post a good pic of the skunkberry mine are looking great!!!


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## VictorVIcious (May 13, 2008)

Earl said:


> Here is arcinNsparkins HempstarXTexadatimewarp current grow.
> 
> He is about the same stage you are.
> 
> .


Only a couple of days different. I have three sizes, one of them is in with the trees and well over 3'. Some of the best looking cuttings as well. I think its a keeper. VV


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## HazyEyes (May 13, 2008)

Where is my mother plant journal i requested VV hmmmm..


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## VictorVIcious (May 13, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> Where is my mother plant journal i requested VV hmmmm..


its coming right up and since I moved the vegetables out my wife has a rose plant to keep the MediBud company. VV


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## HazyEyes (May 13, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> its coming right up and since I moved the vegetables out my wife has a rose plant to keep the MediBud company. VV


nice she needs company she gets lonely at nights.


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## B. THC R+D (May 14, 2008)

Nice To See U Back Vv.......db. Need To Talk About Your Hose. Ben Waiting Ever So Patiently For This.........


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## Azadeh (May 15, 2008)

Hi Victor!
Thanks for letting me know about the journal contest, I made one if you want to check it out.
I'm going to step up the nutes, I have a question as well, should I give them nutes at every watering? that's what I have been doing so far but some say just give them nutes every other time. You seem to know a lot so I rather listen to you than anyone else.
thanks 
I love your journal, it's very informative


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## VictorVIcious (May 15, 2008)

Azadeh said:


> Hi Victor!
> Thanks for letting me know about the journal contest, I made one if you want to check it out.
> I'm going to step up the nutes, I have a question as well, should I give them nutes at every watering? that's what I have been doing so far but some say just give them nutes every other time. You seem to know a lot so I rather listen to you than anyone else.
> thanks
> I love your journal, it's very informative


Well thanx. I have to admit it is somewhat selfish of me to suggest the journals. It does save us all time though, so I don't feel too bad about that. Your plants started out looking great, you didn't increase nute strength. I think with the SuperThrive and the Ionic you can save them. You will have to get a ppm meter or learn the plants. Ionic recommends an ec of 1.8. 1400ppm is 2.8, big difference. In addition there may be some ppm in your tap water, you would have to be able to check that and adjust for it, add that ppm to your 1400ppm. 
If you can't get one now you will have to start increasing the amount of nutes you give them until they are 'looking healthy' again. I have never done that, I bought the Truncheon so I wouldn't be much help. Most of the folks that recommend the alternate nute solution and then plain water are primarily soil growers, in my opinion this is not a good idea when using coco. It doesn't have the soils contents to draw from, its an inert medium, which is why its a good medium for hydro growing. You need one of the experts and there are several here. Hey I remember, a New Member old grower, owns a green house, just checked in a couple of days ago, check the Welcome New Members thread, I'm sure he can help you. He has been growing for 28 years I think. Me? less than two. VV


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## Azadeh (May 16, 2008)

Thanks for the advice victor, I'll give them more nutes. I don't have a ppm meter so I don't know when to step it up but I guess I increase until I see they have a little nute burn. So you give them four times the advised amount, thats a huge difference, no wonder my plants are all weak., they all had diarrhea 
It's been hard to find people growing coco and hand watering. maybe I should have started with soil but the hydro guy said it was much easier than soil and grew better. It feels like they are sad every other day and need constant monitoring, but then the PH is all acting weired, last time I gave them PH 6 and the runoff was 5.5. I just don't get it. How can it change so much in two days?
Could you let me know how to find Hubert?
cheers


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## CaliGurl (May 17, 2008)

*Hey VV looking good Im waiting to see that Juicyberry *


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## B. THC R+D (May 17, 2008)

Thread Check, Tap, Tap.....in This On? Check 1-2-3 Check 1-2... Ya! Its Working, Were's The VV.??? The Forum Needs Your Love. Ok DB. Is Lonley And Misses U...BT. No More Perilite, DB., On Hunger Strike.!!!


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## blinkykush (May 18, 2008)

VV, you still get great results with your T5's? i just took your advice in a thread you put up few months ago and put 1/2 blue 1/2 red spect bulbs.......


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## VictorVIcious (May 18, 2008)

I know I havent posted in a while, I do have some pictures. I have a problem plant right now. If anyone wants to chime in on this one feel free. I took pictures of the cuttings that are under the T-5's and the ones that are just under floro's, I think you can see the difference. Now then, here is a front, top, and bottom view of the plant with the problem, and what is now just about the top fan leaf. Here are the ones I removed. Any ideas, I am all ears. Its on a table with 11 other plants, six are the same strain, none of the others is showing this?? It was not like this at 2:00, it was like this by 5:00 VV


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## rockfish (May 18, 2008)

Damn VV,

Those clones under the T5's are so much bigger and bushier than the others! Were they taken at about the same time? 

Not sure about the problem plant. It seems odd that none of the others are showing the deficiencies. Could it be related to where it is positioned in the table and how the table fills/drains? Sorry I don't have more to offer.

Good Luck!

~Rock~


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## B. THC R+D (May 18, 2008)

If None Of The Othier Plants Are Reacting, Just This One. Then Run The Basic, U Know Better Bt...!!! Change Her Spot In The Tank See If The Next Sitter Gets It. Everything About Her, Is Identical.. Ie. Pot, New Used Clean Not So... Light Burn. Maybe P-k No Money On The N U Know Better.
Tools Clean When Being Clipped Up, Sterilized. Just To Start. Bt.
Damm I Missed U... How's The Probe. Hehehehehehehehe!!!! Lol Db.


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## sm0ke5150 (May 19, 2008)

hey VV just stoppin by. check out my journal. I followed your advice and they don't seem to be getting much better. Any ideas?

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/66204-sm0ke-s-2nd-grow-cheese.html


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## VictorVIcious (May 20, 2008)

Azadeh said:


> Thanks for the advice victor, I'll give them more nutes. I don't have a ppm meter so I don't know when to step it up but I guess I increase until I see they have a little nute burn. So you give them four times the advised amount, thats a huge difference, no wonder my plants are all weak., they all had diarrhea
> It's been hard to find people growing coco and hand watering. maybe I should have started with soil but the hydro guy said it was much easier than soil and grew better. It feels like they are sad every other day and need constant monitoring, but then the PH is all acting weired, last time I gave them PH 6 and the runoff was 5.5. I just don't get it. How can it change so much in two days?
> Could you let me know how to find Hubert?
> cheers


I'm not a computer guy, I can tell you what I would do. Go up to the top of the page and click on Member List. Its all alphabetical. When you find Hubert in the Member List, click on him and you will get his profile. Under the profile picture is a spot where you can find all threads statred by Hubert, one is Titled something like I am here to Help or at least try to. Tell him that wierd old man sent ya. VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 20, 2008)

sm0ke5150 said:


> hey VV just stoppin by. check out my journal. I followed your advice and they don't seem to be getting much better. Any ideas?
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/66204-sm0ke-s-2nd-grow-cheese.html


I posted a comment there. Al B Fuct explains this much better than I can as a part of a discussion of different mediums. Earl uses the hydroton, but he uses Rapid Rooter type products not rockwool. Pretty much you don't want to flood the rockwool and you need to get the nutes up more than twice were you are now at 600ppm. VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 20, 2008)

CaliGurl said:


> *Hey VV looking good Im waiting to see that Juicyberry *


Of course you know this means one of those seeds will have to be male, I didn't keep any of the Blue males. I still like that name, it just sounds JUICY, so Juicy. VV
PS. Germination after Memorial day.


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## VictorVIcious (May 20, 2008)

rockfish said:


> Damn VV,
> 
> Those clones under the T5's are so much bigger and bushier than the others! Were they taken at about the same time?
> 
> ...


It could be, it is close to the flood fitting. One other one, same variety, is now showing the same kind of spots on the leaves. Neither of them looks 'unhealthy' and they were not right next to each other. There are twelve plants on that table so I don't think its a nute deficiency. I'm going to have to watch and see what happens. 
I trimmed the plants that are under the t-5's today, the majority of them are doing fine, many of them have roots out the bottom af the pots. 70 plants total on those two tables. 
Those clones were all taken on the 18th and 20th of April. We are down to 137 now from the original 17?, some of them were male hemp warp that hadn't shown sex yet. 
Here is what those two tables look like today. You will notice the rockwool on the top. The sand has not proved to be a sucessful deterent for fungus gnats so we are going to try the rockwool again and going back too our weekly maintanance schedule for pest control using the Neem Oil and dishsoap that I mix myself. I will alternate that with a Rotenone Pyrethrins concentrate. Insects can build an immunity too one product, by alternating we should eliminate them.


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## B. THC R+D (May 21, 2008)

Hey Mister, A Question? Is The Problem Plant One Of The Bag Plants Shown Ealier In The Th. Db. U Member The Plant Pot Condoms. U Member, Member. Lol


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## VictorVIcious (May 21, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> Hey Mister, A Question? Is The Problem Plant One Of The Bag Plants Shown Ealier In The Th. Db. U Member The Plant Pot Condoms. U Member, Member. Lol


One of the things I hadn't thought of, not the case this time, these were planted before I bought the square pots. I removed all of the bags, it worked, I didn't like dealing with it and many of the plants have roots out the bottom, I don't think many will go out the side. They did come out easily. 
Here are pictures of the two plants showing a problem?, plants #2 and #3, both are HempWarp and there are 3 other HempWarp on that table, 12 plants total, same everything. Plant #2 was on the outside left and Plant #3 was on the outside right before I trimmed the majority of those damaged? leaves. 
Here are the pictures of Plant #2. I have not trimmed any of the damaged leaves off yet. Funny thing is on this plant this seems to be happening from the top down, Plant #3 seemed to start towrds the bottom and move up. #2 is 32" tall and I just put the prop in today because of all the moving. Here is what the bottom of it looks like, and the next shot is what the bottom of plant #3 looks like, thats the one I trimmed. The top, front and meristem of Plant #3, its 27" tall. Thoughts?? VV


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## B. THC R+D (May 21, 2008)

Me Books And Thoughts, Are Showing Leaf Pic's With, The Sim. Look... Were In The Potassium, And The Maganese, Along With Toxic Salts. !!!

My W. Widow In The Last Couple Days In The Blm. Side Looks Like Some Hit Her With A Yellow Shuvle Up Only One Side Of Her... She Is Real Big And Very Root Bond In Her Pot. So, Your Plants Being So Large, And Siting In The Table Systems, Makes Be Think Of A Poss. Deff....??? Have U Been Pushing Your Chems, Do They Need To Be Dropped Down, For A Bit. ??? We Both Know The Facts, And We Will Nail This Down! So Run Your "7" And Lets Nails These Little Pigs Down. Knowing That Uve Run The Basics Already, Whats Your Thoughts Now. Cleanlyness. Any Probs Othier Tables. Maybe Res. ??? Db.


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## Lacy (May 21, 2008)

*Thats a lot of clones. I hope everything works out alright VV. *


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## VictorVIcious (May 21, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> Me Books And Thoughts, Are Showing Leaf Pic's With, The Sim. Look... Were In The Potassium, And The Maganese, Along With Toxic Salts. !!!
> 
> My W. Widow In The Last Couple Days In The Blm. Side Looks Like Some Hit Her With A Yellow Shuvle Up Only One Side Of Her... She Is Real Big And Very Root Bond In Her Pot. So, Your Plants Being So Large, And Siting In The Table Systems, Makes Be Think Of A Poss. Deff....??? Have U Been Pushing Your Chems, Do They Need To Be Dropped Down, For A Bit. ??? We Both Know The Facts, And We Will Nail This Down! So Run Your "7" And Lets Nails These Little Pigs Down. Knowing That Uve Run The Basics Already, Whats Your Thoughts Now. Cleanlyness. Any Probs Othier Tables. Maybe Res. ??? Db.


Thanx Lacy, I hope so too. I don't have any clues, all of them are in the same enviroment, these are not plants I damaged and the bottom growth on #3 seems to be picking up. I will be changing the reses so I will flush for a day. I am going to trim the rest of those leaves off both plants. No other plants are showing anything like this. VV


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## B. THC R+D (May 21, 2008)

Maybe Its Just Them....!!! Not All Apples Are Perfect. Keep Us Up On Progress Changes. Db. U Know Ur Nutes So, U Think Maybe Diff. You Are Going Biger This Run Correct. Db.


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## VictorVIcious (May 21, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> Maybe Its Just Them....!!! Not All Apples Are Perfect. Keep Us Up On Progress Changes. Db. U Know Ur Nutes So, U Think Maybe Diff. You Are Going Biger This Run Correct. Db.


I added the rest of the nutes and additives back in January and have been using them all since then. VV


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## B. THC R+D (May 21, 2008)

Damm V, Your Taking Are ??? Away!!!, Not Done Reading Me Books Tho. Db.


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## VictorVIcious (May 22, 2008)

I flushed that table for a day, cleaned it and reset, nutes 1450ppm, ph 5.8, water temp is a little high @ 71f. You know the rest


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## B. THC R+D (May 23, 2008)

Any Improvment.??? Has The Cycle Of Destruction Stopped, Slowed, Or Just Sitting There.??? Db. Good Morn. Sir.


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## VictorVIcious (May 23, 2008)

Both Plants still have a small leaf or two at the top with spots. I have decided to check and trim off all leaves on thes two that show any thing out of the ordinary. Here are the pix's Both of these plants from the top and then the front, a closer shot of 2 and then 3. The leaf on the left is from 3 and I hope you can see the difference here, Number 2 appears to be a lighter green to me than #3. Other than this problem boh appear healthy to me. 
In case anyone else is paying attention, I was pruning this MediBub plant yesterday, she had a suprise for me, a daugther that was accidentally released early, here the both are, I hope she stays with us. VV


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## HazyEyes (May 24, 2008)

That medibud sure is pretty am about to sell 2 of mine so i am hoping i can get 1 or 2 clones from both we will see.


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## CaliGurl (May 24, 2008)

well sounds like a win win for ya either way 



VictorVIcious said:


> Of course you know this means one of those seeds will have to be male, I didn't keep any of the Blue males. I still like that name, it just sounds JUICY, so Juicy. VV
> PS. Germination after Memorial day.


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## Earl (May 27, 2008)

What is the tds Vic?

Have you calibrated the tds meter lately?

The pics look like nute overload to me.

I would flush *rockwool* with Clearex for a day, 
every 10-15 days.

That's why I use the *coco* 
and keep it dry,
so nutes don"t build up.

I will flush the *coco* with Clearex 
for 24 hours at least once, 
between veg and flower.

.


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## B. THC R+D (May 28, 2008)

Hey, Good Weekend, Nice To See You Back!...earl, U Never Come Visit Me, Am Hated??? Just Finished The Applej. Thread V. And We Need An Update Slacker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Earl Just Funnin With... Ya! "poke" With A Stick.!

db.


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## VictorVIcious (May 28, 2008)

Hey Earl, Dbb, CaliGurl. I clean and calibrate that meter every week. I run the ppm at 1400 and then add the other items I use, then ph the water @5.8. There are 12 plants on that table. Here are some shots of HempWarp #3 and a SkunkBerry Plant that sits right next to it on the table. There are three other HempWarps on that table and none of the others are having a problem. And i did flush them. VV


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## B. THC R+D (May 28, 2008)

I Do See A Recovery, And This Would Be Correct Yes... Growth To Her Bud Seems To Be Evident. Db. Maybe Its Just The Plant, Not Everyone Makes It Thru Unscratched, Your Thoughts On This V.?


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## VictorVIcious (May 28, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> I Do See A Recovery, And This Would Be Correct Yes... Growth To Her Bud Seems To Be Evident. Db. Maybe Its Just The Plant, Not Everyone Makes It Thru Unscratched, Your Thoughts On This V.?


Those plants went into flowering light on 4/20, the problem showed up on 5/18 and it is now the 28th, they seem to be ok. Harvest is still almost three weeks away. VV


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## B. THC R+D (May 28, 2008)

Then Maybe A Build For Sure, And The Prob. Was Solved. Just Picky Bitches. Im Still Going With Nute Build Up... And Since The "e" Knows His Sht. There... Are Problems Should Be Over. U Think.? Db.


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## Earl (May 29, 2008)

Do you still have the male?

.


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## VictorVIcious (May 29, 2008)

Earl said:


> Do you still have the male?
> 
> .


..used nested trays to hold 50 clones? If you do make sure you mark the inside tray as too which is front and back. I not you might turn it around, by accident of course. And if you didn't realize it for a day or so, as long as there is one empty spot in the tray you can figure out which is front and back for sure. If you have all 50 spots filled and you turn the tray around....you are basically screwed, well not really totally. It just means there are some that you will have to sex a second time. At last count I had ten that are potentially male. I was hoping to avoid this revelation, thanx Earl. I had never filled a tray up like this one before and I draw a diagram so I know which plant the cutting is a clone of. These Hempwarp (11) plants gave me 4 cutting each with 3 of them giving 6 instead, thus the total of 50. Yep, I am confident I have at least one boy in there some where, are you ready for one of each? VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 29, 2008)

You know how it is, once you get them into your hydro system all it seems you are doing is watching the grass grow. Here are pictures of what is going on now. VV


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## B. THC R+D (May 29, 2008)

Very Nice Vv. Some Real Monsters Going There. Your System Ops Are Killer. Like A Pro.  Db.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 1, 2008)

Don't know if these will show up right, here they are any way. VV


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## Picasso345 (Jun 1, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> ..used nested trays to hold 50 clones? If you do make sure you mark the inside tray as too which is front and back. I not you might turn it around, by accident of course. And if you didn't realize it for a day or so, as long as there is one empty spot in the tray you can figure out which is front and back for sure. If you have all 50 spots filled and you turn the tray around....you are basically screwed, well not really totally. It just means there are some that you will have to sex a second time. At last count I had ten that are potentially male. I was hoping to avoid this revelation, thanx Earl. VV


Lol, life is tough for us stoners at times. Glad they seem to be on the mend.


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## Earl (Jun 1, 2008)

....................................


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 1, 2008)

I HAD TO HOLD DB'S. HAND SEEING THAT HE IS AFFAIRD OF THE DARK. BUT THE PIC'S WERE NICE!!! AND "SASSY"...
UMMMM' YA! WERE GOING TO BE NEEDING MORE OF THOSE, SO MAYBE A LAPTOP, AND A SAT. LINK FOR THE SUMMER??? "HOUSE" MAY BE IN ORDER. JUST MY THOUGHTS NOW, NOT TRYING TO BE PUSHY IN ANY WAY.... NO REALY!!! SLAPPING ARM LIKE A JUNKY!
ARENT U DOOO! FOR ANOTHIER BIG JOURNAL RUN!!! LOL DB.~TLB!


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## HazyEyes (Jun 2, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Don't know if these will show up right, here they are any way. VV


Those are in their last weeks of flowering right?? Only ask because u really have those puppies trimmed up really nice... really focusing on those main ones right. 

I did trimming to my own but don't really wanna do to much, well am more scared to do so more then anything. when do you suggest doing a good trimming?? more like cutting i guess ....i probably should do it earlier then later.


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## jbjb415 (Jun 2, 2008)

Victor,

I notice you mentioned in a few threads that when flowering under T5HOs, to keep the red and blue bulbs mixed up (50:50). Given that you go all 6500K bulbs during veg, what is your rationale behind not going all 2700K on the flowering stage? Do the plants need 6500K light during flowering?


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jun 2, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> Those are in their last weeks of flowering right?? Only ask because u really have those puppies trimmed up really nice... really focusing on those main ones right.
> 
> I did trimming to my own but don't really wanna do to much, well am more scared to do so more then anything. when do you suggest doing a good trimming?? more like cutting i guess ....i probably should do it earlier then later.


Those plants are part of the 25 I took 170 or so cuttings from between the 18 and 20 of April. I am still trying to train myself to prune them enough so I may have used my 'Theory of one more'. I wait a week or so after doing this 'major destruction trim' and then trim one more. The whole idea of the Sea Of Green Method is to concentrate all of the plants energy into those few top colas, smaller plants, more of them, larger total yield. 
Al B suggests that you trim the lower one third off the plants when you put them into flowering and then do it again 2 weeks later. If you try it you will see the plants do recover enough in two weeks and do need to be trimmed again. Look at DBB's Limbing sessions, he shows it very well. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 2, 2008)

jbjb415 said:


> Victor,
> 
> I notice you mentioned in a few threads that when flowering under T5HOs, to keep the red and blue bulbs mixed up (50:50). Given that you go all 6500K bulbs during veg, what is your rationale behind not going all 2700K on the flowering stage? Do the plants need 6500K light during flowering?


 I drive a common van, my dog ain't got a pedigree.....Hey Jb the idea that I go all 6500k during veg is not a given, I use the red and blue mixture at 50/50 from start to finish. Even my t-12 and t-8 floros are mixtures. The grow shop I visit did the research, the owners son guarenteed the best result. I just follow the directions. My rational is I spend a few bucks there, they would not want to steer me wrong. VV


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## CaliGurl (Jun 3, 2008)

well looking good VV seems they are lookin better . so u say a couple weeks left ... I think im gonna add sum shorter flowering plants down here my ice is on a 12 week schedule  the JF is suppose to be 8 tho. have u popped any? Ill be starting some soon.. maybe I should update my journal lol its only been like 3 or 4 weeks ... n e ways looking good, when ever i get around to mine b sure to pop in.


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## chucktownskunk (Jun 4, 2008)

you are going to have a shit ton of personal smoke!!!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 4, 2008)

I hope so, I have invested a shitload of money and time. Hi cali, wb. Home for a while? VV


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## Earl (Jun 5, 2008)

No Bucks.....no Buck Rogers!
Between you and me.$.$.$.
We got the machines.
Let's get high! ! ! !

.


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 7, 2008)

ANY UPDATE GOING ON IN HERE. MISTER.  
WORKING WITH WHITE WIDOW, WONDERING WERE'S W'.s WIDOWS LOL DB.

MAN ABOUT BURNT THE BRAIN OUT DOING THAT.
EARL. WILL U PLEASE CHECK MY JOURNAL AND TELL ME HOW SUCKY U THINK IT IS PLEASE.!~~! DB. IMMA GET HIGH TOO~~! DOES MY CHAIR COUNT AS A MACHINE OR AM I JUST PHUCKED THERE TOO!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 7, 2008)

Earl said:


> No Bucks.....no Buck Rogers!
> Between you and me.$.$.$.
> We got the machines.
> Let's get high! ! ! !
> ...


That second cola shot is the HempWarp, its like all cola and filling in. Found three more of the males today, of course they are among the healtiest looking. Got a new toy, temp was 93 outside here yesterday and today with high humidity levels. Dehumidifier/AirConditioner. Heres the room and some cola shots. I don't have time right now to take each one off and photograph them individually, gott get ready for a trip, taking my mom to her eye Doctor. See ya late Tuesday. VV
PS. I do have a new light coming.


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 7, 2008)

THANK YOU VV. LOOKING GOOD MISTER... HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH THE MOM... SORRY FOR THE QUICK HANG UP... IF I DONT ANSWER THE WIFE THINKS SOMONE IS DOING ME.... IVE TRIED TO TELL HER THAT SHE'S REALY THE ONLY FREAK THAT I KNOW THAT LIKES DOING THE CRIPLET,. LOL DB.

IS THIS LITTLE BITCH, TRYING TO PULL THE LIGHT DOWN.... I SWEAR VV. LITTLE UNRULES.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 10, 2008)

I had to prop it on the other side of the cord. I think the buds are starting too mature a little, your thoughts???


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## HazyEyes (Jun 11, 2008)

VV.. u might have mites man in the first picture it looks like u have mites nibbling on the leafs ,, but it might just be the light

those buds look yummy


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## Earl (Jun 11, 2008)

Nice fat bud






Those are some leggy girls.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 11, 2008)

I agree, second generation will be similar. That table has a least one plant from all four varieties on it, including one of the hemp warp. I topped some in the second generation, particularly the Northern Berry. I have four nice male hempwarp saved as well.lol VV


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## brendon420 (Jun 11, 2008)

master grower


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 14, 2008)

brendon420 said:


> master grower


SEE I TOLD U VV" SOOOO! IMA NOT CRAZY,,,,,! GROW PROBER!

MAN ALL THIS WHT. WIDOW IS DRIVING ME CRAZY, I GO IN THE BOOM ROOM AND DAM THATS ALL I CAN SMELL, AND THEN I COME HERE TO MAKE SURE IM DOOOING IT RIGHT, AND I CAN STILL SMELL IT.!!! LOL

AND PORN. I JUST POSTED, AND THE B'420 QUOTED HAS GOT SOME, U JUST NEED TO SURF, IT PERV...!!! DB.~~!!! ARNT U DUE FOR MORE OF THE GANJA SHOW SIR. IM AT MY DESK....???

AND STOP TOUCHING THE "CHAIR" DAMIT.!!!  

PUFF PUFF PASS..................!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 14, 2008)

> brendon420master grower


Wow, well... thanx Brendon. I learned it all right here in rollitup. Now I get to ride the short bus with Dbb and the "Krew".



> AND PORN. I JUST POSTED, AND THE B'420 QUOTED HAS GOT SOME, U JUST NEED TO SURF, IT PERV...!!! DB.~~!!! ARNT U DUE FOR MORE OF THE GANJA SHOW SIR. IM AT MY DESK....???
> 
> AND STOP TOUCHING THE "CHAIR" DAMIT.!!!
> 
> PUFF PUFF PASS..................!!!


And you can see how demanding they are?? Soo....
I wanted to get some pollen for propagating a few seeds, didn't want to propagate the whole room. Being a resouceful kind guy with a 24 acre vacant field across the road I took my shovel, two male HempWarp plants a transplanted them in the field behind the big bush, left them there for two weeks. Its a jungle in there. Went over yesterday and cut them off at ground level, pulled the root sytem out and gave it a fling, my outdoor growing season may be over unless we get Juicy Fruit Male. Here are the results of that experiment to date. Earl?? Enough?
I also picked up a new piece of equipment, I already had all of the other stuff ready to go. Even found out about push fittings. It's a 'Professional' 3' by 3' flood table, which I intend to use for mothers. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 14, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> VV.. u might have mites man in the first picture it looks like u have mites nibbling on the leafs ,, but it might just be the light
> 
> those buds look yummy


Thanx Hazy, yes I have had some mites, probably came in on the vegetable plants when I moved them outside to start 'Hardening' them off. As you know both fungus gnats and spider mites seem to concentrate on the younger plants. By using the Neem Oil and detergent mix I have gotten rid of the mites, a few dead eggs on some leafs that will soon be removed. As I think I mentioned the sand experiment for controlling gnats did not work well and the rockwool doens't seem to helping either, so I will just continue the weekly maintanace spraying and add add the sticky traps. Live and learn I guess. VV


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## Earl (Jun 14, 2008)

Did those male flowers get open?






If you store the pollen in the baggie 
with the rest of the plant material,
as the leaf and stems dry, 
they will give off moisture 
that will ruin the pollen.

The only way to collect pollen for later use 
is to shake the open flower pod over a piece of paper 
and then store the powdery pollen, 
in a very dry container,
to prevent moisture contamination.

I pulled my male, 
right when the pods opened, 
and then let them dry on a window screen, 

After drying, 
I shake the dried plant 
on the girl I want to pollenate.

I'm afraid that letting the pollen dry in the baggie 
with the leafy material in it,
will probly ruin the viability of the pollen.

.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 14, 2008)

Earl said:


> Did those male flowers get open?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


SOme of them did, some of them are. I agree they should not stay in the baggies, I put them on a screen over a tray to let them dry out a little. I figure wuth the rh as high as it is here right now it will take a day or two to let them dry. I just used the baggies to carry them around until I got the screen set up. Question still is do you think this will be enough or do you want me to try two more males. I can't keep them in here much longer, few days at most. VV


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## Earl (Jun 15, 2008)

Can you leave them outside, or in a closet?

They don't need any more light,
and very little water.

A closet would be best, and let them open fully, 
then place news paper under it, and shake it.

It will snow pollen onto the paper.

Wrap the pollen in a small piece of paper,
place that into an envelope, 
with a couple of grains of rice for desiccant,
add a 41¢ stamp and it's ready to mail.

If you want to save some for long term here is what I do.

Go to the grocery store and get one of these, 
or you can get them on ebay.







The pump comes with three bags.








Get a jar,
a thumb tack, to poke a hole in the lid,
some glue, 
and an applicator stick.






Cut the blue valve from the ziplock bag,
and apply some glue to the blue circle.

Stick the plastic valve to the hole you made in the lid,
with the thumb tack and let it dry.







After the glue is dry,
put the pollen in the jar,
and pull a vacuum with the pump.






Works great and I just opened some vacuum packed afghan 
that is 6 months old and still fresh.






.


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 15, 2008)

Earl, U Are The Man!!! That Is Way Cool Mister. Is It Ok If I Cut And Paste This Hole Piece In My Journal... Any Objections.??? U Get Full Cred. Got Spread Some Love, But Some Reps Coming For This One...!!! Me!~


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## Earl (Jun 15, 2008)

My Pleasure.
.


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 15, 2008)

Ill Put A Link In With It For The Vv.' And Your Journals With It... Thanks!!!
I Like That.!!! Its Right Down My Alley!!! Thank You! Me!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 15, 2008)

Yep, I can find a spot for em some where. VV


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## GrnMan (Jun 16, 2008)

What's up VV? I'm trying to do a bit of catching up on my subscriptions and thought I'd hit your journal.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 16, 2008)

Hey GrnMn been a while saw the new pix. Now that we all know what I should be doing I am working on it, slowly today, still working on somhag and A_knock_your_ass_down type of someothershit, your invited for milk and cookies, better make it quick. Like by tomorrow you might have a chance, Boston is a ways, about 14 /2 from here, I think koosh is closer than you. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 16, 2008)

So U Like A The Juice... Heheheh!! Very Nice V. I Like That Post.! In Me J' Lol! Db.


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## GrnMan (Jun 16, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Hey GrnMn been a while saw the new pix. Now that we all know what I should be doing I am working on it, slowly today, still working on somhag and A_knock_your_ass_down type of someothershit, your invited for milk and cookies, better make it quick. Like by tomorrow you might have a chance, Boston is a ways, about 14 /2 from here, I think koosh is closer than you. VV



AHHH, so wish I could join! Sounds very enticing to say the least.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 17, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> So U Like A The Juice... Heheheh!! Very Nice V. I Like That Post.! In Me J' Lol! Db.


Newdaddy Made it by and enjoyed it as well. Both of them have a taste similar to crstal and widow, crystal's show through the bag, as you know, long lasting high. Still have part of that second one, fired it up this morning so I would have that alone, needless to say i am not in any particular pain today. You know it was hard for me to wait a few hours, when is hazy coming back. lol VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 17, 2008)

Soo... I made a spot for the males, six of them. Two weeks you should be able to pollinate a couple of plants. when are you leaving for vacation?


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 17, 2008)

He's Gone Already And Wont Be Back For A Month. So Its All Yours Too Enjoy!!! Heheheheh!!!! Well Deal With Him When He Gets Back.!!! Db.! 

Soo~ Cookies Today. A' Hehehehehe!!! Thank, The Letter Writer For Me!!! And It Sounds Like U Guys Are Having A Good Time. Lol! Rem. Its All Yours.!
Will Just Make More.!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 17, 2008)

No, I have to pick my wife up from her trip to PuertoRico today, so the cookies will have to wait until tomorrow for me. My momma didn't raise no fools. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 17, 2008)

Great. I Hope She Had A Good Trip... And Enjoy! Witch It Sounds Like You Mich Boys Are.!!! Lol Allways Db.!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 19, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> Great. I Hope She Had A Good Trip... And Enjoy! Witch It Sounds Like You Mich Boys Are.!!! Lol Allways Db.!


I think she did, she talked about it non-stop, a sure sign she is to tired. And I had a good trip too. Started with 1/2 cookie and intentions of posting how the grow room stands. Instead I pursued a project I had been meaning to start. Always remember, if you are going to use net pots, check the size of the pots before you drill 22 holes in the top. If the holes are 2" and the net pots are 2" you will be in the 'hole'. Use a 1 3/4" hole saw, you will be happier with the results, trust me on this one. 

Through out the rest of the day, I had somehag along for the ride, made pleasant visits to the hydroshop, and Menards and Lowes and Menards and Lowes and another 1/2 cookie and home depot. I have a pretty good idea of how to install an automatic sprinkler system for your lawn and shrubs now. I have been working on that project for a while now with just a few modifications. Whoops mind is wandering again, I was going to post some pictures so let me do that and then we can get back to discussing the automatic watering system.

The Blue Varieties are finishing now, a little longer than expected, about ten weeks, so I moved the tall trees down to the floor. Since the floor in concrete I can just flush them there, they still get ok lighting from the tables beside them. All of them and the HempWarp and SkunkBerry will be harvested over the next two weeks, we have about 70 plants that have been flowering for three weeks now, and a few back ups that have been in flowering light for a little over a week. The MediBud Mother is right in the front of the 3 week flowering table picture and command central is a mess. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, it is a few miles away yet. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 19, 2008)

NICE UPDATE, DEFF. NEED MORE! OF YOUR PORN.!!! SOO! U LIKE THE COOKIES.? TRY A HOLE ONE. AND KEEP THE NUTE CAN AND BIBBS CLOSS. LOL!


JUST CLONED YEST. AND TOOK YOUR ADVICE AND GOT ME A PHOTOGRAFER AND RAN ABOUT 300 PIC.S THANK G' FOR DIGG. CAMM.S AND MEMCARDS. LOL! NEW J' COMING FOR THIS TURN, STARTING TO LOOK ALL THE SAME AND MERGED IN THE OTHIER...! SO I FEEL ITS RIGHT. YUR THOUGHTS ON THIS.!!! RUNNING?

DB.~TLB!


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 19, 2008)

I think it smokes right, tastes right and hits you right. Man I need to get some of this stuff up, so here we go. As I have mentioned I am working on an automatic watering system. The idea is simple, install an ro reservoir with a pump and run water lines to each of the five tables I have right now. Each table will have one of these valves, about $14.00 for the anti -siphoin model, it is controlled by a celenoid, normally hooked to a timer, I bought the 8 station timer for $9.00. Of course this projec has my workbench a little crammed right now, and I am working on this, well actually two, aero cloners. I made two different sprayers, Filthy Fletch told about the first one and I pulled the other one from a build on the internet. You can see the spray patterns for both with a 396 gph pump. And this is what it look like with the lid on and the wrong size holes. Back to Menards again.lol VV


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## sm0ke5150 (Jun 20, 2008)

thats a sweet setup. gotta love perpetual weed.


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## GrnMan (Jun 20, 2008)

You got any close up shots of those cola's VV?


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## MistyXMountainXTop (Jun 20, 2008)

Hey Vv I was wondering what that was you mentioned a few pages back. something called Mg shock. And you had a picture of a leaf. I've had something that looks like that problem. I'm using foxfarm big bloom and tiger bloom. They started getting like that, then a plant next to that plant started getting crispy leaves and I say four or five buds on the two right plants just like crisped up on the top. I've picked off all of the dead leaves, and I changed the rez., but One or two of the plants look like the top of the bud is too crispy. The plant in the middle next to the far right plant was looking great until this started. I didnt think that the nut.'s were anywhere near too high. Thanks for your help if you can give it. Peace everyone. Later on...
~MMT~

The first four are of the crispies.The last two are of the left ones that are doing fine.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jun 20, 2008)

Actually my friend Earl posted the picture with the mag deficience for me to use in comparing the leaves that seemed to die in a day on a couple of hempwarp Plants. Both Earl and DirtBagBrian (B. thc +r&d) would be abe to give you more help then I could, along with several others. The way I run my op, I wouldn't know one problem from another. And you can ask either one of them, they will tell you that VV doen's know sh*t about the plants. If I f on up, it stays that way til harvest. VV


----------



## MistyXMountainXTop (Jun 20, 2008)

Alright well thanks anyways man. If anyone else has something to add let me know. They're kind of recovering, but I'd like to find out what it was specifically. So as to specifically avoid the prob. Again thanks. Later on...
~MMT~


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jun 20, 2008)

GrnMan said:


> You got any close up shots of those cola's VV?


Well, you see they really don't have much of a cola compared to anything else except the Satavis I had in the first grow. The HempWarp Look like colas from top to bottom, buds have not filled in like I had hoped. I won't really know until harvesting and weighing, they do seem to have a lot of dense small buds, they may suprise me, I think I will be lucky to get a pound from them. Kinda fit the plan though, allowing me to switch strains and still stay somewhat viable. Oh what the hell, here are picture of the Northern Berry, the HempWarp and the Skunkberry. Heights are 42", 34" and 30" respectively. 

I have been working on a couple of aero clones, all of these are examples of different spray devices you can purchase at the big box stores for very little money and some of the items they have for modifiying the height of your spray head. I am going to start with the two pieces shown int he next picture, cost less than $3.00 and it will screw right on to mthe pump just like Filthy Fletch showed in his aero build thread. The pop up sprinlers work well if you have a taller res, mine is only 12" tall, I am only using it for clones. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 20, 2008)

I have been saying I would try to give folks an idea of the kind of investment that will be necessary to run and improve this type of operation. And I have been trying to save all of the receipts from the Hydro Shop, I think I am only missing one of those. As I was adding them up, I knew they didn't really tell the story, I probably spent as much at the big box stores and I did not keep all of those receipts. I do buy kinda like I post, I figure everything I need I need four of, if you need plumbing part see me first. lol SOoo.. any way from March 3 until June 3rd we spent $923.64 on nutrients and additives, $ 645.86 on supplies and $593.55 on two pieces of equipment, the tri-meter and another t-5 light, for a total spent there of $2153.05. The inventory of Nutrients should carry us thru the month. The supplies figure does include the $236.00 + tax we spent on the new square pots and we should not have to replace them for a while. No bucks no buck rogers. VV


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## Earl (Jun 20, 2008)

I think the hempwarp will work great in my aero.

Looks like you need more light V_V, 
to pack on more bud weight.

mistymtntop 

If you are using tapwater 
that may be your problem,
although my first guess is...

h2o2 could be the problem,
if you are using hydrogen peroixide,
then just stop it.....
don't do that next time,
there is no recovery.

Too much heat/low humidity.
also known as VPD
conbined with.....

Lights too close.

One or a combination of those four reasons.
.


----------



## B. THC R+D (Jun 20, 2008)

HMMMMM!!! IF MINE SO MUCH AS HICK~UPS, IM GOING WITH THAT ONE!

AGAIN VV YA! RIGHT!....THE PROOF IS UN THE PUDDING PUDDIN!"
AND THOSE LAST PICS'
HOLE E CRAP!... SO DID SHE JUST RIP THE STICK RIGHT OUT OF YOUR HAND,??? PLEASE DONT TELL ME "U JUST HANDED THAT TO HER."~!!!

IVE STARTED WEARING A "CUP" WHEN I GO IN NOW... THAT WHITE WIDOW.."MAKER" OF MINE NEEDS TO BE TAAAAAMED...!!!

SOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
 NOW YOUR A COOKIE EATING, TOE SHOWING, GROW PROBER....
SHAME!~!!~!!!!!!!!~!~~!! 

@MMT

IM NOT HYDRO, BUT BY JUST LOOKING AT YOUR PICS, JUST THE ONE SIDE IS SHOWING LIGHT BURN... MOVE AWAY A TOUCH... MAYBE MORE SEEING WE CANT, SEE IT.!!! 

AND WITH THE ROLLED LEAF, HEAT... ROOM TEMP, OR POSS. RES. TEMP TOO HIGH... EARL WILL BETER KNOW THESE ISSUES THAN I....!!!

IF EARL CHIMES IN THEN, U SHOULD BE PRETTY MUCH BACK ON TRACK, HE KNOWS HYDRO... LIKE A GURU!!!... SO "EARL"..................????


----------



## B. THC R+D (Jun 20, 2008)

Man Late Too Class... Taking Desk...!!! Catching Up. High All!


----------



## MistyXMountainXTop (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks for the advice guys. The low humidity sounds like the best reason. I really dont think that my lights could have been too close. I was using peroxide constantly for about a week or more, but that was like three weeks ago or so. So you don't think this is nut. burn at all? Because once I know that for sure I can start upping them again to pack on the weight. All I have is the aero hood, a 75 watt HPS, and like a 23 CFL. So I just switch back and forth the HPS and CFL from side to side. And now I'm trying to get them to recover without giving them nut. burn. The plants on the left are doing fine, unharmed even. I'll show some pics of them. Again thanks for the help Earl and all. Later on...
~MMT~

Shit!! 
I gotta do the pics tomorrow morning. My lights are off right now.


----------



## B. THC R+D (Jun 21, 2008)

Lights Out Is A Good Time For Pic's Your Cam Has A Flash, So More Of A True Color For Us To Look At.... But U Realy Should Get A Journal Going So We May Talk There, And Deff. See Yur Porno' U Have The Makings Of A Good Journal... Realy!!! This Way We Can Let The Toe Showing, Grow Prober~ Get Back To His... Just My Thoughts, Seeing Im A Whore For More Journal Porn, The Better. Yur Allways Welcome To Come High'jack Me Journal Anytime!!! Would Like To Read Your Comms. There Also... More Heads Is Better.!!! Esp. Pot Heads. Lol Db.~tlb!


----------



## Earl (Jun 21, 2008)

H2o2 will cause the leaves to get brittle 
and turn a coppery greenish-yellow color.
There might be some blisters.

Growth will completely stop when this happens,
while the plant tries to repair the damaged roots.

If the plant is mature, 
then you should harvest it, 
because it will not add anymore budz.

How do I know this?
'Cause I done it also.

Flush it for as long as you can wait,
with plain RO,
and then chop it and start over.

Try to avoid H2o2 if at all possible,
and then the max dose for 35% h2o2 in RO
should be 2.5ml/gl....... if you must!

Dutch Master states on their web site, 
that H2o2 will ruin the result,
and not to use any amount.

If you are using this band-aid, 
to try to fix your hemorrhaging,
it will fail, or greatly reduce your yields.

Please try to grow without H2o2.

Use it for cleaning your stuff between grows.

I wash my fresh fruits vegetables with a mild H2o2 solution.
Keeps them fresh longer, especially grapes.

Get the temp of your rez under control,
and you won't need H2o2.

.


----------



## GrnMan (Jun 21, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Well, you see they really don't have much of a cola compared to anything else except the Satavis I had in the first grow. The HempWarp Look like colas from top to bottom, buds have not filled in like I had hoped. I won't really know until harvesting and weighing, they do seem to have a lot of dense small buds, they may suprise me, I think I will be lucky to get a pound from them. Kinda fit the plan though, allowing me to switch strains and still stay somewhat viable. Oh what the hell, here are picture of the Northern Berry, the HempWarp and the Skunkberry. Heights are 42", 34" and 30" respectively.
> 
> I have been working on a couple of aero clones, all of these are examples of different spray devices you can purchase at the big box stores for very little money and some of the items they have for modifiying the height of your spray head. I am going to start with the two pieces shown int he next picture, cost less than $3.00 and it will screw right on to mthe pump just like Filthy Fletch showed in his aero build thread. The pop up sprinlers work well if you have a taller res, mine is only 12" tall, I am only using it for clones. VV


Nice, so you are thinking a pound from 3 plants?


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 21, 2008)

I stopped using hydrogen peroxide and started using double air stones about 9 months ago when Pot Roast and Al B Fuct pointed out that h20s will kill your organic nutes along with the algea and other pathogens. Doesn't make any sense to use good nutes and then kill them by using h2o2 no matter what the dose. Those plants are just about ready to harvest. The trees have been flushing for just about two weeks now and the HempWarp/ Skunkberry for about a week. VV


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanx GrnMn but this is sog style not monster style. More plants, just colas. I have done some experimenting with different numbers of plants on my tables all the way down to 12 on a 4' by 32" table. This time I am going to go the other way, More plants, bottom trimmed off, no vegging time, at least that is the goal that we are working towards. VV


----------



## mastakoosh (Jun 21, 2008)

a ton of knowledge in this journal along with some beautiful growing. i want to sog perpetual as soon as i move and can get setup right.


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## VictorVIcious (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanx koosh. Raising lights is a pain in the..... back. I have asked about the different devices, most say they are not worth it, I think this one is. $20.00 on sale, 50# capacity and can be adapted to your light style. VV


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## honkeytown (Jun 21, 2008)

Nice buds VV...I had to subscribe...I am having the same issues and am about to go perpetual....good stuff man


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## B. THC R+D (Jun 22, 2008)

Good Morn. From The West~side! ........ Puff Puff! Pass.  Clearing Sleep From Eyes....,, What The! ??? Yur Teaching Them How To Ride Bikes Now!!! ???
Ok Wait?... Its To Hang Yur Light! Nice Mister. That Way They Cant Pull It Down. Yur Allways One Step Ahead Of Me. Very Nice Thinking. At Desk Waiting For The Bell....

Went Alittle Abf! On The Clones A Seek Peek In Me J'...! Off To Do More Catching Up! Post U Later. Db.

Any More Porn??? I Need A Fixxen Bt.!~


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## PlasmaRadio (Jun 24, 2008)

Yo VV.

I'm designing my next build and I want to go t5 for flowering. But I am having undue stress about it. Can I really pull it off or should I just use the good old HPSs?


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jun 24, 2008)

PlasmaRadio said:


> Yo VV.
> 
> I'm designing my next build and I want to go t5 for flowering. But I am having undue stress about it. Can I really pull it off or should I just use the good old HPSs?


 
If you have the space and an air cooled hps, you can do as well with it as you can the t-5. If you don't have the space and you don't have an aircooled light you can do better with the t-5's. Getting the basics right is what is important.

The nice thing about that 'light lift', if you are moving it, and you let go of the cord, it will stop right there, it has a lock that will stop it from crashing. The drawback is you have to provide the balance front to back. I couldn't find the pulleys for less than this setup cost. Installation was simple. The second one I did by myself, postie helped with the first one. I just took a 2x4 and mounted the stationary pulley, screw thru that into the ceiling joists and threaded the line thru all 5 pulleys necessary, done. VV


----------



## PlasmaRadio (Jun 24, 2008)

So, you are saying they are on par with a cooled hps? That was one of main concerns.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jun 25, 2008)

PlasmaRadio said:


> So, you are saying they are on par with a cooled hps? That was one of main concerns.


Yes, that is what I am saying. I do want to start putting some qualifiers up. Huh? The widow group I had actually finished close to 14 weeks, beautiful crop, average over 1 1/2 zips per plant under a 4'-8 bulb t-5. Skunkkushy and I agreed plants genetics determine finishing time, makes sense to me. I have seen some comments alluding to the 'longer flowering period' necessary with t-5, led's. I had a conversation with a hydroshop owner that bought some led's, used them himself, and gave a couple to some friends to use. All of them were familiar with what they were growing and all of them got the same results. Better than average yields, it took longer!!!! Period.
Thye blue varieties I have now are supposed to finish in about 8 weeks, they are at ten weeks right now and just finishing. BUT, the tall trees were under a 400watt hps, and they are just finishing too and so is the HempWarp that is 2 weeks younger and that was grown under the t-5's???This jury is still out, the qualifier is people that have more experience than I are saying it DOES take longer under t-5's and led's, total yield over time is the same.
This would seem to ?? change a plants genetics?? VV


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## Earl (Jun 25, 2008)

A lot of factors affect the finish time,
but of course genetics is the biggest.

Light is one.

The amount of light,
and the spectrum, 
will determine whether you grow 
rock hard nuggs, or fluffy leafy buds.

The blue sprectrum will give you more leaf, and less calyx.

The red spectrum will give you more calyx, and less leaf.

In many varieties, 
the trichy leaves
are very good smoke.

For most varieties, 
we prefer to smoke the calyx,
because the leaf is slow to cure..

I change spectrum,
depending on the stageof growth,
and the variety.

I veg under both red and blue 
for fast growth and leafy healthy plants,

I use Hps only,
during the first 5-6 week of flower.
I do not count the first two weeks of 12/12

Then I add additional light spectrum 
from MH and CFL


I guess you can get red T5s?


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jun 25, 2008)

I use a 50/50 mixture of red and blue. VV


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## Earl (Jun 25, 2008)

So you think the hempwarp is gonna be done soon?

How long did it take to flower?

Did you get any clones from it?


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jun 25, 2008)

Earl said:


> So you think the hempwarp is gonna be done soon?
> 
> The Hempwarp harvest will be starting tomorrow and the harvest from the six males I put somewhere is ready to be done too.
> 
> ...


Yes, remember we took fifty clones from the hempwarp when we put them in flowering. 20 of those would have been male. I think I still have 3 hempwarp in vegging and I will be taking clones from them as soon as I can get to it. I had a leaking table I had to fix and as long as I had it out I worked on all of them and moved them around some. Today Postie and I built a table for the 3' sq. flood table I am using for mothers and vegging plants. I included a bottom shelf for the res to sit on. Bought some waterbed casters, they work great on heavy item, better than anything else I have used, you can move them both directions, back and forth and side to side, supposed to support 500#, make sense to me. Only have one more to build and that will be more of a stand for the two aero cloners I built. 
At that point we ready to start a production line. 44 clones or seeds at a time, mothers under 400 watt hps ( hey I already had it ), (4) 4'-8 tube t-5's for flowering and the new Procyon 100 watt led for clones should be here in the next two weeks. 
Bought a dehumidifier today, the combination air conditioner/ dehumidifier doesn't seem capable of doing the job necessary by itself, I would not recommend them for a grow area. Its amazing how humid it can get in a room with six reservoirs and a couple plants. VV


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## Earl (Jun 26, 2008)

Very nice vic.

Do you think you have a good pheno of the time warp?

Can you tell yet, 
if there are any difference in the flowering plants,
or, are they pretty much the same smell and size?

Do you know which flowering plant is the mother, 
to the clones that are vegging?

Sorry to bombard you with questions,
but if you have some clones,
I might want to work out a way 
to run some in the space shuttle,
maybe at the same time your running yours, 
then we could compare some, 
after the finish. 

I am going to do the nute challenge in jan 
in DWC and Hempy Buckets,
so I will have the Space shuttle free to launch anytime.

It's in the hanger for now,
but I could have it ready to go in a short time.

Want to run a 

*" Clones Hydro Nutrient Challenge"*,

just you and me?

.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jun 26, 2008)

One of the HempWarp is among the tall trees, the others are all a little under a meter. We took at least 4 clones from every one of them. The height of most of them fits the sog style of growing very well. All of them are marked as to which plant they came from except for the stoner that may have moved the tray around 180 degrees.
They only count I am sure of right now is the BlueBerry, I know I have two of them in flowering and one to develop as a mother, that is one of the things I will try and accomplish this week, finding out where we actually stand with the four varieties we have going. I probably have more second generation HempWarp, should be about 15 to 20 of them total and only three are in the mother vegging area. They do seem to have more 'abnormalities' then the blue varieties, it does not seem to slow them down, it just shows up. Even those two that had the 'leaf disease' or whatever it was, seem to recover and continue growing. The one that grew tall will not have the yield of the shorter plants. so number 11 will be weened out. 
I am up for the trip, timing is not real good right now. I would have already made it if the table hadn't started leaking. I have 25 plants to harvest, and a table to build before the 1st of July. On the second I will be taking my mom in for some surgery on her eyes (shes 85) and we have been told she will need to make sure sunlight does not hit her skin anywhere for five days after that so I will be staying there to help her out. Looks like the middle of July?? Which could work out just about right if I get everything done I need to do before I go, we should have clones that will be just about two weeks and ready for transplant. I am going to use the same rooters you showed in your journal so all I should have to do is stick them in some water for transporting??
Competition?? You have as many watts of lights on the space shuttle as I have in my entire grow room, you would mop me up. How long have you been growing, total?
I did save a couple of cookies and a J of the apple juice for ya......uhhh...so far I have them saved anyway. Middle of July....hmmm.....I may not be able to wait that long. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 6, 2008)

Hey Vv, U Got Yur Ears On.??? Earl U Heard From The V' All Ok??? Call Coming If No Response.!!! ???? Db.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 7, 2008)

...I'm still trying to get my stuff organized. Think I am making some progress, still a long way to go. This is how thing stand right now.
I got the clones stand all finished each side will hold 22 plants, has its own pump and air stone, took a couple of cutting to test it out. So what is the secret of 13 seconds in the dip and grow? Decided which ones to keep as mothers, and moved the rest to table 1. I included pictures of tables 2,3 and 4, just to let everyone know I have been doing something. And just to make sure I'm not slackin' I germinated these Juicy Fruit seeds Sunday and planted them this morning.........just before 5:00am, the reason is, its a secret.  VV


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## mastakoosh (Jul 7, 2008)

hey vv what strains are you running? if this is easily obtained from reading, just smack me upside the head.


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 7, 2008)

reminders are ok once n a while. I have three blue varities, BlueBerry, SkunkBerry, and NorthernBerry. In addition I have HempWarp, across between a HempStar and a Texada Time Warp supplied by Earl, some MediBud supplied by Hazy Eyes and now have the JuicyFruit seeds in the cloner.VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 7, 2008)

Nice To Read Yur Busy...! Hope The 4th Was A Good One.!!!
I Just Got Blue Berry Aswell, She's About 3-4 Inch's Just A Bb'.

??? The 13 Sec. Mostly A Karma Thing. The Box Says Like 3-4 Sec. And The Old Teacher Told Us About 17-20 Sec. I Started Down Away From The 20 Sec. And Found That 13 Was Nice. But It Is More That The Box Says.???

If I Ever Get Some Time I Will Try The Instructions, For The Hell Of It.!!!

Sooooooooooo!!! Hope All Is Well And Was Just Checking In, Making Sure The Bt. Is Ok.!!! Db.~tlb!


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 8, 2008)

Ya know if you can put that word in your strain title it just sounds.. well ..juicy. Put these in the cloner yesterday. Three of them are up like this today. 
I had a good 4th, ate a half a cookie, smoked up some HempWarp, is a nice tasting smoke and thats before fully curing and reviewed some dirt bags thread about cloning. Hope the 'karma' is right, thats what I did. Some obvious differences, that guy uses flood and drain, I am using sprinkler spray heads and air stones. He uses a heat mat, I use a tank heater. He uses rockwool cubes and aquarium rock in 6" net pots, I am using Rapid Rooters and 2" net pots. I'd say they are identical, what do you think?? VV


----------



## B. THC R+D (Jul 8, 2008)

Looking Good Mister. Karma Will Allways Win.!!!  So Everything Is The Same But Diffrent. Lol! Do You Feel This Is To The Plus Of The Othier Way U Were Doing It.???

Did A Monster Clone Of Ak47 And The Widow, Double My Reg. Size.!!! Very Nice And Well Its Double The Size.!!!  Of Its Neighbors. I Want To Start A New J' For These See, That I Finaly Got Some New Blood... Witch Brings Me To Yur Blue Berry, Been Hearing She's A Bit Of A Bitch To Run...your Thoughts On Here And Some Of Her Porn, Would Be Killer, So I Can Start My Game Plan On Her!!! Db.~tlb!


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 8, 2008)

I have been told that the BlueBerry does not need the amount of nutes other dtrains do, which will not fit my operation, all of them will have to be on the same nute regiment. Only two of them made it to flowering and the one that turned yellow ealy never recovered. With your knowledge of the plants and the fact that you can feed them differently I am sure you will be able to do just fine with them. I did take 5 clones from the one clone I had of the BlueBerry, and will run them one more time. Took six clones off the MediBud Hazy Eyes sent and put the original in flowering, 10 off the SkunkBerry, 5 NorthernBerry and 10 HempWarp. And the JuicyFruit seeds from CAliGurl.
Postie wants to go back to the widows and as ordered some seeds, I think he ordered WhiteBerry based on E-Mails thread, and a couple of other mixed widow and some thing. 
I had been thinking about making a AeroCloner for quite a while, the only thing I was hesitant about was the transplant for my flood and drain. I ran into this dbb and he transplants to soilless mix from a flood and drain cloner with a decent success ratio so I thought I would give this a try. Earl showed planting seeds right into his aero setup so I thought I would try that too. Wasn't sure about the seeds so I did Germinate them just to be sure. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 8, 2008)

decent success ratio "YA I LIKE 100%" LMFAO!!!" COMPANY COMING OVER THE LOCAL NETWORK I HAVE GOT TOGETHIER IS GETTING BIG.!!!
GRO SIDE.
BLUE BERRY
MONSTER HAG.
WHITE WIDOW...NOT RUNNING' DONT LIKE HER.!
BLACKBERRY WIDOW.
AK47
AND MORE COMING IN A WEEK ABOUT 4 MORE CLONE STRAIN'S MAN! "FLOOD GATES"

DB.


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 8, 2008)

Told ya so. lmfao VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 8, 2008)

The Othier Strains Coming Are,
Pinneapple Dog Shit.
Doa
Alaskan Thunderfuck
United "somthing// Its A #:"
Green Spirit???
And A Blue Rhino???

Dammmmm! Me Have Blood Now!!! Agreed Rofl! I Did Ask For This.!!! Weeee!

Db.~


----------



## mastakoosh (Jul 8, 2008)

thank you for the updates. they sound delicious. i have always heard good things about the texada timewarp so i cant wait to see how that cross works out.


----------



## B. THC R+D (Jul 8, 2008)

Hey I Just Bumped U A Red Block... So Hows The Cookies, Gone Yet.???


----------



## mastakoosh (Jul 8, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> Hey I Just Bumped U A Red Block... So Hows The Cookies, Gone Yet.???


 hey there mister. i have been lurking your journal quite a bit. i am still waiting on my cookies from you lol. now dont be getting me confused with masterkushener. i am the one who never gets to sample those beautiful treats. vv i am sorry for the jack.


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 8, 2008)

no worries thats how the little bus rolls, we are all in it together. Still have 1/2 cookie and enough for a decent j or so. If we get any males from the JuicyFruit I may let it mature enough to collect some pollen. The HempWarp seems to draw pests?? It is a decent smoke and grown properly I am sure it will kick ass. VV


----------



## B. THC R+D (Jul 9, 2008)

The HempWarp seems to draw pests?? A SWEATER PLANT MAYBE ???
POLLEN FOR YUR SELF OR PASSING IT ON TO "THE" BREADER.! DB.

AND I WOULD LOVE TO SHARE THE COOKIES....OOOOOOOO OOOOH! SORRY U NOT ABOVE 3905 ON THE POSTS "SORRY"!!! LOL


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 9, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> The HempWarp seems to draw pests?? A SWEATER PLANT MAYBE ???
> POLLEN FOR YUR SELF OR PASSING IT ON TO "THE" BREADER.! DB.
> 
> AND I WOULD LOVE TO SHARE THE COOKIES....OOOOOOOO OOOOH! SORRY U NOT ABOVE 3905 ON THE POSTS "SORRY"!!! LOL


I think its just a much stronger smell and etc. and draws, I will just have to pay more attention to them early in the cycle. Learn to read what they are telling me, that is were you have the advantage, as I have said many times. 
Pollen for both or for anyone I could pass it too, US mail works for me for seeds and pollen. I would like to try and cross it with a BlueBerry. JuicyBerry just sounds good right?? 4 out of five of the JF are up, one still needs to shed the seed pod, no obvious deaths of clones yet, this just might work. One of the units is leaking around the outside rim so I may have to use something in that spot to seal it off. 
what the fook is a breader? some one that makes bread? we call them bakers around here. VV


----------



## B. THC R+D (Jul 9, 2008)

Hey Damit Im Using My Face To Type....lol! Breeder... U Know A Probing Plant Humper.!!! Rofl!


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 9, 2008)

The SkunkBerry seems to be a nice high, not fully cured just dried and in jars. Still not bad, doesn't match the HempWarp taste for me, which may be good for some others, I guess that must be why there are different strains?? See, I'm getting smarter about the plants already. Right? VV


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 9, 2008)

ya i knew just couldn't help myself, and I still have one of those and you know why. If you don't mention it again I may be able to wait. lol VV
the aj joint is in jeapordy though.


----------



## B. THC R+D (Jul 9, 2008)

Lmao! I Gots A Couple Big Nugs Left And Then "for The Record Books"!!!


----------



## Dr Shakalu (Jul 9, 2008)

Hey man, i love finding a thread about t5 or cfl, i cant decide on a t5 set up or a 1000w hps with air cooling tube, any suggestions???? im working with a closet that is 5ft long, 2ft wide, and 8 1/2 ft tall. i dont really need to be too stealthy so i can get fresh air from right outside the closet, i have pics on a thread in newbie area.

Any input is highly appreciated!!

BTW read the whole thread and enjoyed it and it added to the cannabis growing archive in my head!!! thanks again VV!!! much love!

Peace & Pot peace: & )


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 10, 2008)

Dr Shakalu said:


> Hey man, i love finding a thread about t5 or cfl, i cant decide on a t5 set up or a 1000w hps with air cooling tube, any suggestions???? im working with a closet that is 5ft long, 2ft wide, and 8 1/2 ft tall. i dont really need to be too stealthy so i can get fresh air from right outside the closet, i have pics on a thread in newbie area.
> 
> Any input is highly appreciated!!
> 
> ...


You just have to take all of the variables into account and make a decision. Since stealth is not an issue for you all you have to be concerned about is suppling 'fresh air', which means exhausting stale air and keeping it stirred up with an oscillating fan. With the height you have you should consider a wall mount for that, some have even taken stand fans and mounted them on the wall. 1000watts for a 2' by 5' space is overkill imo, a 400 watt with a little reflection on the long wall would be adequate. This is an example of where the t-5 light would be ideal. The 4'-8 tube fixture is about 18" wide so you would be within 3" of the walls on each side and 6" on each end. An exhaust fan mounted above that with the door closed would pull the warm air from around the light, creating a chimney type effect, air circulation should be great.
You can start with only 1/2 the fixture on until your plants get a couple of weeks old which save on the electric and with the 50/50 mixture of bulbs, use that fixture from start to finish. 
The Procyon led light would also cover that area nicely, its a little pricey, $600.00, uses 100watts an is equivelant to a 400 watt hid, again same light for the entire grow. 
Some one had posted a link for 68 watt cfl, equivelant to a 300 watt incandescent for like $20.00 a bulb, available in 6500k and I think it was 2700k, $13.00 each for mogul bases and then the wireing all 120v simple as abc. Four of them hung vertically, two of each would cover that area well. Postie may try those, he does have the advantage of being able to start with clones that are ready tp flower though so our information about his success will be a little skewed. VV


----------



## Dr Shakalu (Jul 10, 2008)

Ty man, i appreciate your help my only reason i want those hps is for super dense buds, i love me some dense buds  !!!


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 11, 2008)

Dr Shakalu said:


> Ty man, i appreciate your help my only reason i want those hps is for super dense buds, i love me some dense buds  !!!


yea I know what you mean, these fookin lights can't produce big buds.


----------



## Dr Shakalu (Jul 11, 2008)

ended up with the 8 bulb by 4 ft light similar to the one you have, price is high , but its ok its still much cheaper than hps
lol cost not heat played the role in this decision im sure i will be satisfied with the results


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 12, 2008)

LMFAO~ROFLLLLLLL~~~!!!! 

BANG........~~~!!!!!!







DID SOMEONE SAY "DENSE"????~!!!! BT~ YOU "HOOKER"!!! LOL DB.~TLB!


----------



## Earl (Jul 12, 2008)

What strain is that bud?


----------



## Dr Shakalu (Jul 13, 2008)

That bud is huge but it may or may not be dense, there could be a dense bud half that size that ways more!

know what i mean? Not to bag that thing looks so delicious!


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 13, 2008)

that bud was 28.8 grams dry and in The Jar. A one gallon jar. I know I have only been doing this for a short time, by any indoor standard that is a decent bud. Know what I mean. VV


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 13, 2008)

Earl said:


> What strain is that bud?


 That one was crystal, we think. Remember I dropped the tray with the premium seeds in it Sept of 06. That is the last clone of a clone of those original seeds, Crystal was one of those and the closest match we could get to what these plants looked like. The HempWarp high is definately in league with that one and the widow, I like the taste of the HempWarp. Dried nicely and is curing out well. VV


----------



## Dr Shakalu (Jul 14, 2008)

Wow now i am excited! cause i have the same light set up as you! woot, not really guaranteed genetics on these seeds but for a first grow this is fine.
I was wondering if you could help me tell whats wrong with a couple of my plants, i think its either potassium deficiency or i had too much wind on them.

The edges of some of the leaves are browning and getting brittle and dry.
heres a couple pics. 
(pic 1 and 2 have damage on their leaves and pic 3 doesn't seem to)


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jul 14, 2008)

Just have time for a quick photo update. I have the room arranged, only a couple of thing to still work out. The mothers need a little more development before they will produce the larger clones we would like to be able to get. I will have to do some tupe of an interim transplant until these clones are a little more developed than they will be at two weeks. Some of them already have roots down into the tub, three of the four juicy fruit seeds are among those that do. 
I got my new light, it looks a little weird. Four tables in flowering light. Heres a picture of a HempWarp I am developing as a Mother for Papa Earl Enjoy.



> Dr Shakalu*Your are the t5 master. *bows**
> Wow now i am excited! cause i have the same light set up as you! woot, not really guaranteed genetics on these seeds but for a first grow this is fine.
> I was wondering if you could help me tell whats wrong with a couple of my plants, i think its either potassium deficiency or i had too much wind on them.
> 
> ...


Some folks can make a diagnosis of plant problems without knowing any of the details. I am not one of those folks. I would need the details which should be in 'YOUR' journal. Post a link here, I am sure folks will take a look and see if they can help. In the meantime you may give some thought to putting them in individul pots?? VV


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## Dr Shakalu (Jul 14, 2008)

only the one pot has 2 plants the rest only have one, i think i need to mist my plants, thy are probably just needing humidity. ty


----------



## Earl (Jul 15, 2008)

Dr Shakalu said:


> only the one pot has 2 plants the rest only have one, i think i need to mist my plants, thy are probably just needing humidity. ty


If you are using tapwater,
and I'll bet a hundo you are, stop it!

That is your problem.

Use RO and no more problems.
.


----------



## Dr Shakalu (Jul 15, 2008)

i have used RO the entire time thank you very much lol ph is at about 6


----------



## Earl (Jul 16, 2008)

Vic just left my house.

He was here for 19 hours,
we tried to sleep for about 6,
and we ate out a couple of times,
so that means we smoked 7 fat joints in about 12 hours

Brian, thank you for sharing that fantastic herb,
yours was by far the best of all 6 other "samples".
(big fat king size samples)


A A + + reps to you Brian.
Come here and give me hug buddy.


And to Vic, 
for being able to save some of your weed for me.
(he did kinda bogart that apple roach)

Both you guys products are better than mine.

I'm still working on it.

Thanks for sharing, you guys,
and to Vic for the 10 hour drive.


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## Earl (Jul 18, 2008)

What's the deal?

I leave everybody speechless?


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 18, 2008)

I think so Earl. DirtBag hasn't been around for a few days, it was alot of work for him to install that exhaust fan. Just remember, when the shit hits the fan. you asked for it. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 18, 2008)

SHOWING UP TO CLASS LATE.... "WHATS WRONG WITH SHAKALU'S BACK?" HE'S ALL BENT OVER....??? 

AND "NO" THE  'S....MINE"!!! 


********************************************************

@ E' AND THE V' ~

AM SPEECHLESS! THANK YOU! I THOUGHT? U MIGHT HAVE TO PRY IT, FROM HIS HAND...LOL! NO COOKIES ???  
MAKING MORE TODAY.!!!  FOR LONLEY PORCHES!!!

AND I LIKE HOW THE V' GIVES A WARNING...LOL!!! U POKED HIM! LMFAO!
REALLY!!!.... IM JUST A FLUFFY KITTY' NOT SOME TYPE OF GROW FREAK!~ OK THE "FREAK" PART MAYBE, I GIVE U THAT ONE.!!! LOL

SEEING, THAT POSTING HAS TAKEN PLACE, I KNOW YUR HOME SAFE.!!! 

CARING AND SHARING ANYTIME AND ALLWAYS DBB.!


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 18, 2008)

Oh yeah, he got a cookie too, he wanted to save it for something special. We also visited the Air Force Museum, that it a really interesting place, especially with some one that has flown some of the planes that are there. VV


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## Earl (Jul 19, 2008)

I just had the cookie and some milk, for breakfast.


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 19, 2008)

Enjoy it brother, you will have a nice day today. VV


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## Earl (Jul 19, 2008)

I is very mellow,
thanks guys.


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 19, 2008)

So was a hole one eaten..? I love milk and cookie wake and bake's. Db.

that would be cool... The af m. We have some type here with the spruce goose in it, that is spose to be some spectical... One hanger i here with the goose and alot othiers, built for the goose esp.!!!

Am glad u two had a good time, can only guess,! U were as high as some of those plains.lol


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## PlasmaRadio (Jul 19, 2008)

Get up, eat coffee cake, take bath, take nap.... sounds like a great day.


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## Earl (Jul 19, 2008)

That's one museum I have not been to.

Someday I'll get up there and see that monster,
maybe we'll get to burn one then.


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 19, 2008)

Anytime E'... I hear the place is massive! Ive seen the goose, and mary when there were in long beach togethier... But would like to see it again, so its on the list... This way, still "high" we can just drive right there.!!

The widow, on the apple is "smell ee', she seems to be running quicker, "thank goodness", ran her mom 13wks and a day, and she started new growth on me!!! "bitch"! So off with her head.!!! 

A couple more wks to go with the widow hag6. Update coming soon. Db.

am glad u all liked the taste of oregon.!!! was nervous! ~why~ ???


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 23, 2008)

Sooo... fun and games is over, back to work. I now have seven stands in my grow area, four flowering tables, one for mothers, one for the aerocloners, and one for the vegging plants, no they are not ready to go into flowering, we knew they wouldn't be. I did take pictures of the build, not sure if I can retrive them for posting.
We have, BlueBerry, Skunkberry, Northern Berry, HempWarp, MediBud and the latest addition, JuicyFruit ( thanx CaliGurl). VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 23, 2008)

Nice vv'. Dam cant wait for the sea of green pic's... More more more! U guys still sleep in the house right.??? So what yur counts now??? Running, and what could be yur max. Plant count now, with the new table.??? Lol yur shop should make its own weather by now, any clouds.?
Deff. More porn needed on this. Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 23, 2008)

Plant count??? What is that?? I guess about 98..... in flowering....so one more for the rest of it, that 99 plant limit thing. Here is a pic of that one plant and then the others. I suppose I could have 35 per table in flowering, 15 looks comfortable on the mother table the vegging table is 3' by 3' so 35 there would be ideal, the cloners will hold 20 clone each so I guess ...... I have been thinking about making the tables smaller. Its a lot easier to buy a ready made top and make your own stand etc. I read this guy's cloning thread and he had done it that way, I kinda followed that. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 23, 2008)

Holy crap vv'... Thats alot of work, and for plant count, i ment more of how much can ur boat hold now??? After the add up, i am realy surprised a toe shot wasn't in the mix.... Lol db.~tlb! 

went and attacked some noobs today, and the garden knowm was there, and then gone, those knowms are elusive... Hehehe!!!


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## Dr Shakalu (Jul 23, 2008)

Great set up man, and always seems to be getting better! i cant wait till i can afford my own place, i will get my grow on then!


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## honkeytown (Jul 24, 2008)

good god that a beautiful sight.


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## hothousemary (Jul 24, 2008)

damn man! what a forest!!!!!! Im late but im here for the ride!! scribed +rep
HHM~~TLB
yea the bus strikes yet again!! *S*


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## email468 (Jul 24, 2008)

guess i'll stop lurking too and post.. hello!


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 24, 2008)

We do have quite a network developed, a true motley krew. I think I am done building, well maybe a few modifications, no more new ones. I have to move a table to get from one side to the other now. I hadn't thought about total plant count til DirtBag brought it up. I guess I do have some capacity. seems like just two years ago I started with bag seeds that I had to put in the field across the street, what a difference, it looks like a greenhouse in here. And my wife can still park her car in the garage.lol Did you all notice CaliGurl's new journal, her clones look awesome, thats what I want, clones like that. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 25, 2008)

I was starting to think it looked like one of those liberry's were the cases had to be rolled over with that big safe handle looking thing. All on tracks... Man vv' u got big... Lol from bag seed to "bang"~~!!! Very nice mister. Very!!! Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 25, 2008)

They have shelving like that. I did think about it. What is that game called were you have the little 15 numbered squares and one open square....thats what its like now. You have to move three things to get around. They say neccessity is the mother of invention, in this operation they are right. The 2' by 4' table is the right size for the mothers, and if I can get clones ready to go into flowering in two weeks ( a big if right now ) then I can eliminate one table. I have decided on how to do all the reses, been screwing around with that for two years now, solved the bowing problem for $6.50. Total cost for a 39 gallon res with cover, $31.50. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 25, 2008)

So what was the fix,,, i feel i missed it or u teasen??? 6.50 beats the crap outa 31.50! So do tell! A pic would even be better  im just a slut that way!!! Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 25, 2008)

I was going to post a pic, then I filled the res first, now it has 39 gallons of water in it, I can't move it out to take pictures until I empty it out. $31.50 is the total cost for the res and lid with the modifiations. Botanicare's 40 gallon res and lid is listed at $111.95 in the 2008 catalog. The table is only listed at $61.95. Soo.. I bought the flood table built a stand for it that the res sits on with casters on the table for less than $40.00. Took picture with my new camera, the software program won't let me have them, and since I took them while I was building it......anyway. It was a lot less work than building one using the pond liner, I wouldn't have even had to put the board around the flood table, it does give me something to hold onto when I move it. 
Take a 3/4" pvc x, 2- 3/4" tees, six flat end caps and a 10' length of pipe. Place the x in the middle of the res and attach the 2-tees to it placing them far enough to keep the res from bowing, measure and cut pieces to go from side to side thru the tees and the x, place end caps against the inside and drill and screw thru the end caps, be sure to use a washer around the head of the screw. It look like an HH. Holds the sides steady. I put the top on and let it fill til it overflowed, no bowing, lid stays on. Saves $70.00. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 25, 2008)

Nice... Do you think that would work in the vac. Thing'e i did,,,to keep the 5g bucket from inploding ??? Or should i just find that metal buch. Like we talked...!!! Man look at u being all crafty...lol!!! Very nice. Db.~tlb! 

oh! And "new camera" ??? Moven up bt.~


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 25, 2008)

It could work, you would have to decide the design. I used lumber originally, don't like the risk of pathogens growing. Most of my tables will run on 30 gallons so this size give me extra room, less pressure on the res, a win-win. The inside doesn't have a lot of nooks and crannies to have to clean. There is one thing I am going to do different on the rest of them. Having the pump line, air lines etc. coming out of the lid is not as convinient as if they came out the sides, could even by above the 'water line'. A flood and drain fitting thru the side may work if I can't find the hose nuts filthy fletch posted. You would have to put the compression side in and the barb side out, might even make it easier to remove the pump for cleaning. Hey, I'm still working on it, its only been two years. Maybe a little silicone around push fittings. Some of us are slower than others lol VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 25, 2008)

You know im at 5+ and still learning... I think were both learning that the learning never stops... Just when u get it done they come out this a new mouse trap...and were all addicted to keeping up with the jones's so to speak along with well "pride" lol db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 26, 2008)

Soo... a few weeks back I built a table for the mothers and bought a flood tray for it. Then I made a couple of aero cloners and a stand for them. Worked great, clones are not ready for flowering, we knew they wouldn't be, we haven't developed the mothers enough yet so I did some thinking for about 10 minutes. We need to do something with these clones, and take some more clones, I know, lets build another table, this time lets make it a 2' by 4'. That should be big enough for the mothers and then use the 3' by3' for the 2 week old clones. 
It has been some work, its done now and when the software lets me I will post the build. I did get some of the neoprene collars for the aero cloner, cut a groove in the side, snaps right in place. We love our mothers, we treat them....uhh like shit, cut off all of the little children and place them here, put the mothers back where they came from, that is it.  VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 26, 2008)

Lmfao!!!!.... Building again? Porn looks great! Gots some pic's to show u of my ak, "abfuct" clone method experiment. Be back on around 9-10a my time. Db.~tlb! 

man those babies are looking real good... So its working for u ???


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 26, 2008)

First batch, lost 5. I think they may have been staying too wet in the cloner. I put a timer on the pumps running two hours on and one off. AND used the Nitrozime I already had, this time I bought the Hydrozime. I just took those clones yesterday, hoping they are getting to the size we need. All but two are standing up straight, there are some big ones there. I am going to the lake for the rest of today, be back tomorrow sometime. VV


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## hothousemary (Jul 26, 2008)

man the laboratory is looking sick!!! was that a led light I saw??


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 27, 2008)

Yep, that is a Procyon 100. 100 watts of power, equivalent to a 400 watt hid light. VV


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## email468 (Jul 27, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Yep, that is a Procyon 100. 100 watts of power, equivalent to a 400 watt hid light. VV


Finally someone with an LED that can give me an honest assessment - so is it the equivalent in every way of a 400w HID (besides the heat)?


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 27, 2008)

email468 said:


> Finally someone with an LED that can give me an honest assessment - so is it the equivalent in every way of a 400w HID (besides the heat)?


YES DO TELL DADDY'.............BT'! CLASS IS IN  DB.~TLB!


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## honkeytown (Jul 28, 2008)

I wanna know how the LED's are workin out too...should be interesting....equivalent to 400 watt HID....hmmm...wow....maybe....I am watchin


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 28, 2008)

Yep, it should be interesing. I have had it for about three weeks now. I put it over the clones as soon as I got it. SO far I have been following the recommendation of keeping it about 2' above the plants. It is the smallest grow light I have seen. The clones do not look like they are stretching. Right now I have the 400 watt hid and the procyon over the mother plants and two sets of clones, a total of 85 plants.VV


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## B. THC R+D (Jul 28, 2008)

So a good test runj... With and without, the clones under the same light correct, if me stoned ass read it right.!!! So this should give some answers,,, i can imagine me grow rooms all purple that would be... Well just more funner'.. Db.~tlb! 

V'. I will call u after they call me!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 29, 2008)

Over the 2 year period I have been growing I have tried a lot of different solutions for what I call the reservoir problem. I recently purchased a 3' by3' floo tray and a 2' by 4' flood tray. The 40 gallon reservoir with lid for those trays is $111.95. The trays including the flood fitting were $80.00 and $60.00 and before any one says a 20 gallon is big enough (its not) that one is $81.95. There is a reason for those prices, in order to withhold the water pressure it does have to have some structural integrity, you can clean them easily. 
Here is my alternative to the $100.00 reservoir. Its a Rubbermaid Roughneck, xl 45 gallon or 170 liter. By gettinga res bigger than you actually need and adding your own 'structural integrity' you can have a 40 gallon res for $31.50. Here it is, this one happens to be tan, I have one that it blue also. I picked up a 3/4" pvc x, 2-3/4" pvc t's, 6-3/4" pvc flat end caps and 10' of 3/4" pvc, put it together like you see here and drilled and then screwed thru the side into the end caps above the water line. All of the lines can be disconnected without removing the lid. Next one, I will install the lines in the side. not the top. Constant improvement. Oh, it helps to have a sight level, and you can modify neoprene collars to fit your openings by using a serrated blade. 
The container is around $25.00 with the snap on lid, has a set of wheels in the back, no you can't wheel it around with40 gallons of water in it. The parts totaled $6.50. VV


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## Dr Shakalu (Jul 30, 2008)

I am already using a 35 gallon i think or 40 gal rubbermaid, but the roughneck line i had never heard of! i am going to keep my eyes peeled for one of these, ad get it, i almost bought the res for my flood table but i decided to wait, and im glad i did!


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 31, 2008)

the 40 gallon one is not good, you need to go to the 45 gallon. The 40 gallon has four pressure point, the corners of course, fill it with water it will leak, you can patch it and it will leak...tried the 37 gallon and the 35 gallon and the......this is one I have used for two years, the blue one, under the 3' table. Because you don't have to put 45 gallon in them for a 12 sq ft table.....VV


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## GrnMan (Jul 31, 2008)

VV! How are things friends?

bonsmilie


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 2, 2008)

GrnMan said:


> VV! How are things friends?
> 
> bonsmilie


I have just been thinking that, how are things. This all started to show how to get from seed to perpetual weed, how are we doing with that. Soo..I went back and read the journal. It doesn't look the same for very long. I think we have a pretty good start. The first set of clones taken from our mother plants are a week old in the aero-cloner now, using dbb's formula, 1/4 strength nutes and 6 ml Hygrozime/ gallon. You can see they are forming roots. The neoprene collars just hold the stem in place, the pump is three hours on, one hour off. Our plan is to transplant them at about two weeks and if we are feeling confident with the size, put them in flowering and take another set of clones. A lot can happen in a week, we will see. Two of the tables have been in flowering now for about 9 weeks. They look like they are still a week or so away from harvest. These other two tables have been in flowering for different lengths of time, one table is less than 1/2 full so they will not pose a problem. The 10 week flowering time may take some adjusting. I have been known to make some adjustments. The vegging stand I started with is back in the garage in pieces. The table I had them on next has been replaced with two seperate flood and drain tables and the clone stand I started with has been replaced with the aero-cloner. 
I have used peet pellets, rockwool cubes and Rapid Rooters for starting clones and seeds, now I am not using any medium for the clones, and posted it all. Its been 5 months now, I think Al B predicted it at six months, we may just make it, don't know how the hell we did it though. lol VV


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 2, 2008)

Man very nice VV'... Is that were roots come from, next yur guna tell us theres eggs' in cake....lol! 

Look at u...!!! All perpetual! I think we both knew it would happen! I do feel its all up to the grower and the plant... You have taken yur lumps and fined tuned to yur' growing style, along with space... And yes u did pull it off! But u put the time in, along with tlc! And let the plant take you for the ride.!!! Very nice sir'.... Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 2, 2008)

you know, it was jus about the time I got this box delivered that I lost track of what I was doing, didn't seem like such a chore anymore, just get-r-done one project at a time. Trial and trial and success. I can see, maybe because I want to, a difference in the bud formation on the plants flowering now, two thing have improved for them, the air temp and rh, are much closer to ideal, it is costing a few hundred on the electric bill, so about $300 for the op, cost of business. 
Another thing I did want to make clear. I don't have any additional lighting over the aero cloner, I am depending on the 400watt hid that is over the mothers and the led that is over the vegging clones. I had read this one guys journal, he uses a 1000 watt horizontally to cover his vegging plants and his clones, figure I can do something similar. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 2, 2008)

What fool, would try and cover all that with just a 1000w blip! Lol! Db.~


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 6, 2008)

I like the results I am getting using that Dip And Grow for the cuttings in the aero-cloner. Now can I transplant them to coco without damaging them?? I am really curious about how this is going to work or not. I have always used something, well really just about everything including soil, to put the clones/seeds in and that has always seemed to be the only real anchor point. These won't have that, I will plant them a little deeper. The first batch I put in I used the Rapid Rooters which has been my favorite although it did seem like I had bigger stem with the rockwool cubes?? 
I do have to say the buds on the flowering plants are the 'stickiest' I have ever had. Of course I would wonder why that is, this will be the second go around for all except the one MediBud that Hazy donated. Al B reminded me of something I 'knew' and hadn't paid attention too, not really sure why, maybe because I didn't feel I could afford to fix the problems.
If your temps are too high, it won't hurt your plants, it will just make them shoot up nice and tall..... and leggy........ and sparse. Kinda like my first batch with these?? I don't think the tallest plant in this batch will match the height of the tall trees I had last time and they are the same strains. Hmmm......Seems like every summer this happens, hey its only been three summers now, stop laughing. You know how old people are. 
Well any way, here is a shot of a JuicyFruit Seedling, 9" tall and 8 nodes, been under the led Procyon to this point, I think it looks alright. 
I'll be gone for a few days, going to go make a wedding cake with mom. I will have internet so I'll still be around. I think what we are going to do is put the table the oldest clones are on into the flowering room take one table apart and modify it, imagine that. By Monday I want too be ready to transplant this last batch of clones, most of them are large, maybe give them a week in veg, have too get this schedule worked out, thats the whole point. Should have some ready too harvest next week, at least one table, which will give me the opening and we will just have to repeat as necessary. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 6, 2008)

Its all coming togethier!.... Been thinking about the anchor prob. I had that when i trans the bag seed... I knew then for comfort and ease of that anchor i would try to do my seedlings in the rockwool... It has allways worked at 100% for me!!!

?? So are yur #'s 100% to date coming out of the new system! ???

Yur guna work yurself to death mister v' i swear! Lol! Got a new carbon filter for the exhaust fan! Now how the hell am i going to get it in the attic! Hmmmmmmmmmm! "this is going to hurt" me "more than it hurts you!" lol! Wish me luck! Db.~tlb! 

looking good! All perpetual! U know yur just along for the ride and the bitches got u tamed' lol! U work for them now! Look at calander~ plant out~ plant in~ look at calander..................!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 6, 2008)

> B. THC R+D said:
> 
> 
> > Its all coming togethier!.... Been thinking about the anchor prob. I had that when i trans the bag seed... I knew then for comfort and ease of that anchor i would try to do my seedlings in the rockwool... It has allways worked at 100% for me!!!
> ...


That is the plan, just not sure about the maturing time. Table is all apart and gone. We can rebuild it stronger than is was, faster... etc. lol VV


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## mattso101 (Aug 6, 2008)

oh my VV!! juciyfruit is great!! I have been getting it here in toronto for some time now! it is potent and a great motivational high your gonna love it! Its smells like juciy fruit gum but the taste is totally differnt. sweet and spicey with great hashy tones on the exhale. I need to smoke some now.. I recommend a nice fatty or a clean glass pipe to get the full flavors out of her. I find a bong will degrade the flavor with this strain


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## edux10 (Aug 6, 2008)

what up mattso! Havnt seen you in a bit!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 6, 2008)

Well, that is a suprise hello matt. I have to thank CaliGurl for them, hope you have been following her journal, the clones she has look awesome. I think she is growing the widow now. Anyway, good to see you. VV


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## hothousemary (Aug 6, 2008)

Looks pretty thick, promising with the led light, Im so hopping that it works well. It would solve so many problems in my room!!


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## mattso101 (Aug 6, 2008)

Hey VV check my Cinderella 99 journal I still got the strain going strong. My Brother has two monsters flowering right now. I will try and get some pics of thos soon aswell
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/44057-dna-genetics-cinderella-99-a-57.html#post1142859


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 8, 2008)

I actually have some Widow/Cindy Seeds that we will probably start in the next month or so. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 8, 2008)

Let postie' know i said "high"!!!.... Last of the widow here, in blm! Thank goodness! Db.~tlb! 

the apple made the widow, get think like an indica'...???? See what its like when it drys, if it airs' up a bit! I dont think it will tho!.


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## jbjb415 (Aug 9, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I drive a common van, my dog ain't got a pedigree.....Hey Jb the idea that I go all 6500k during veg is not a given, I use the red and blue mixture at 50/50 from start to finish. Even my t-12 and t-8 floros are mixtures. The grow shop I visit did the research, the owners son guarenteed the best result. I just follow the directions. My rational is I spend a few bucks there, they would not want to steer me wrong. VV


 
Hey Vic,

Are you still running 50:50 with the red and blue T5HOs? I would think you would get higher yields if you went to all reds. Here's the logic. Having 50:50 red and blue gives you the equivalent of 216W of flowering light and 216W of blue vegging light (on an 8 bulber). It's like running a metal halide and HPS simultaneously during flowering. When we are talking 432W for a table, it would seem best to maximize the potential and get 432W of red flowering light. Flowering is looking for the reddish sun in fall, and the 3100K bulbs give them what they need. 50:50 mix is nice for the veg period though.

No pressure man, just thought I would put it out there. It does cost a little for the bulbs, but I would think you would recoup your costs.


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 9, 2008)

jbjb415 said:


> Hey Vic,
> 
> Are you still running 50:50 with the red and blue T5HOs? I would think you would get higher yields if you went to all reds. Here's the logic. Having 50:50 red and blue gives you the equivalent of 216W of flowering light and 216W of blue vegging light (on an 8 bulber). It's like running a metal halide and HPS simultaneously during flowering. When we are talking 432W for a table, it would seem best to maximize the potential and get 432W of red flowering light. Flowering is looking for the reddish sun in fall, and the 3100K bulbs give them what they need. 50:50 mix is nice for the veg period though.
> 
> No pressure man, just thought I would put it out there. It does cost a little for the bulbs, but I would think you would recoup your costs.


The spectrum of light from the sun doesn't change, the rays just come at a different angle, which makes the days shorter. You thought the wavelength of the sun changed for pot growers?? lol 

We don't put out watts of light, we use watts of power to produce light, we measure the production in Lumens.

The research shows that the mixture works better, that is the reason the led's are mixes as well. If you like you could check out the yeild #'s in my widows journal and make you own comparisons. The led light I just bought was $600.00, it's not about the cost of 16 t-5 bulbs. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 10, 2008)

Ooch!............i was waiting to see the cost of it!!! Just seen one of the ufo's at the grow shop, and the book for the new style one's... Money money money!!! But no heat!!!!!!!!!! Ima have to be a realy good boy for one of those to show up!!!  as u and the earl allways say... "no bucks~ no buckrogers' 

so when do u feel it will have paid for itself??? If it hasn't already! 

db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 10, 2008)

I still haven't decided what I am going to do with lights, and I may not work out the math on it. It does appear flowering time is longer. If we take that extra time we get good yeild and yes I could make adjustments to allow for the extra time, not sure I will. I am running 1760 in the flowering area right now, You and Al are running 2- 1000 watt lights, you for the whole room and Al over 4-32" square tables. His flowering time is 8 weeks, so is yours, mine is 10 or more, hmmm.....saving 360 watts plus the air cooling for the lights, against two weeks longer flowering time. I can always make the tables smaller. By putting that led light over the clones, I am actually giving them more light and using a few more watts than I was before. So far I am satisfied with the results, and this will give me a good test of the led lighting. MasterWilliam likes the ufo's, check his journal out https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/64466-my-led-laboratory.html VV


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## jbjb415 (Aug 11, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> The research shows that the mixture works better, that is the reason the led's are mixes as well. If you like you could check out the yeild #'s in my widows journal and make you own comparisons. The led light I just bought was $600.00, it's not about the cost of 16 t-5 bulbs. VV


No worries man.

$600 for the LED. Wow. That could get two 8 bulb T5 fixtures, with excellent coverage for a 4*4 area. I just don't see the LED getting close to that. Will look forward to the results.


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 11, 2008)

Maybe you need to read my other journal, telling me the price of t-5 lights, I have four of them in my flowering area and have had for at least 1/2 a year. Just the first 15 pages should cover it, enjoy. VV


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## smppro (Aug 11, 2008)

Whats up Victor just stumbled upon your thread, nice setup. I was wondering how the flowering was going with the T5s. Dense at all? I was thinking of replacing my 400hps for a 4ft 8bulb because of heat issues. I am planning on a scrog so i think T5s would work well. Any input on this from an experienced grower would be great.


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 12, 2008)

Ahhhh! Class is in!............

Cloning thur. Here.! 9 strains to carry on! Lol "ya sure reach out" !!! Still no word from the "man" on yur end. Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 12, 2008)

Yes I noticed that. I miscounted, I only have six strains, and no I am not going to try and catch you. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 12, 2008)

Catch what... Its killing me! The shop has turned into a jungle, thur's morn. I get it back, clones will be up and running... With photographer, and all will be cloned to death... Then its just keep all those little peckers happy, as not to lose any blood line! Need to have a long chat with u about some grow cloning stuff.!!! Will try and start the pm tonight! Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 12, 2008)

I made some simple aero-cloners, I like this one, the structure is right, under $10.00 @ Menards, do not drill 2" holes! Didn't I post this at all. I used 1/4 strength nutes and 60 mil of HYgrozime as per DirtBags Instructions. The pump is 396 gph, bigger than necessary, about $40.00 and I am using a dual air pump for the pair of cloners. Cycling 3 hours on 1 hour off, has some 3" or longer roots.


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 12, 2008)

This is the MediBud, I don't know if you can see all four colas. WB hazy. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 12, 2008)

Look'en real good over there... Vv' i think we talked a bit about this in the past. My timer was set to 3~on 2~off... This is an adjustment you made correct.!??? "because of the last run" and fine tune~ing! Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 12, 2008)

I started the timer a few days into the first batch I ran, the Rapid rooters seemed too wet to me. My timer runs 24 hours, how do you set it for 3on 2 off, thats a five hour cycle, doesn't divide into 24 hours??


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 13, 2008)

It is in my world. Lol! I fudge, run it on that schd. When i get to the end and they bunch up... I make the dial look evenly spaced to the eye on that last little bit. Works great.!!! Lose a bit here gane a bit there, it all evens out and the timmer is set. Have not touched it for yrs.! Will have to look at it this time... For mini~me pulled a couple pegs and brought them to me and said "daddy what are these"??? Lol db.~tlb!


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## Barking Mad (Aug 13, 2008)

Great set-up VV. It must be one of the most professional looking grow rooms on RIU.
I'm impressed.


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 13, 2008)

Barking Mad said:


> Great set-up VV. It must be one of the most professional looking grow rooms on RIU.
> I'm impressed.


Thanx for that comment. I have tried different set-up, constantly changing. 



> B. THC R+DIt is in my world. Lol! I fudge, run it on that schd. When i get to the end and they bunch up... I make the dial look evenly spaced to the eye on that last little bit. Works great.!!! Lose a bit here gane a bit there, it all evens out and the timmer is set. Have not touched it for yrs.! Will have to look at it this time... For mini~me pulled a couple pegs and brought them to me and said "daddy what are these"??? Lol db.~tlb!


Mine is a different type, can't pull the pins out, I always lost those damn things. A little fudgin is alright, my logical right hand brain doesn't allow for it. Gotta luv the helpers though. lol VV


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## mattso101 (Aug 13, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Thanx for that comment. I have tried different set-up, constantly changing.


I am trying somthing new with my t5's in my closet. I have my 150 over top the plants with my 6 t5's surrounding the plants Its day one of flower and it seems to be working very well. I figure since its such a small inclosed area it should work out nice.
Grow my cindy's grow!
Matt


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 13, 2008)

Earl and I had discussed something like that. He was talking about back in the day when he had a box that had floro's all around the outside. He said it worked great. VV


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## LogHead (Aug 14, 2008)

Hey VV, sorry, ha a bit late and a bit stoned but i just had a question (actually a bunch) about your t5's man. what system are you using? like how many bulbs and how long are they? how many plants could you fit under there, how many lumens does that one lightsystem get? and jw if that is a mixed spectrum. sorry for all the ques just wondering for i'm considering using them. answers would be great man :]


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 16, 2008)

LogHead said:


> Hey VV, sorry, ha a bit late and a bit stoned but i just had a question (actually a bunch) about your t5's man. what system are you using? like how many bulbs and how long are they? how many plants could you fit under there, how many lumens does that one lightsystem get? and jw if that is a mixed spectrum. sorry for all the ques just wondering for i'm considering using them. answers would be great man :]


The discussion of the lights is in the other thread, and the only amendment to it is it appears to me that the t-5 and led's give you good yields but take longer to do it. For 'closet/ wardrobe etc. growers that have some money and four feet of width that have problems with venting they are ideal. The number of plants you can put under it is dependant on the size of the pots you use and the size of the table. I'm running more than 30 with my table and pot size. I will be shooting for just 30, 4/sgft is a little hard to work with across 4' long tables. Using the mixed spectrum, 4 red/4 blue you can start with only 1/2 of the fixture turned on, saving 220watts of power and still putting 20,000 lumens right on top of your plants, less heat issues. Their low profile, takes about 6" of height for the light and pulley system I use, allows for an extra foot of height for 'short' grow areas. I even provided pictures, and thought I was doing the right thing when I posted it, I put it in Grow Room Design not Journals, link is in my signature, first 15 pages should do it, enjoy.  VV


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## edux10 (Aug 16, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Earl and I had discussed something like that. He was talking about back in the day when he had a box that had floro's all around the outside. He said it worked great. VV


I was thinking that in my hut I could put my 600watter at the top, then get banks of t5s and put them on the wall. I wish I could draw a pic but it is quite simple. Then there would be light EVERYWHERE!!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 16, 2008)

edux10 said:


> I was thinking that in my hut I could put my 600watter at the top, then get banks of t5s and put them on the wall. I wish I could draw a pic but it is quite simple. Then there would be light EVERYWHERE!!


This does not make sense to me, you would be better served with an air-cooled 1000 watt forget the rest. You would need the same aircooling for the 600 and you would be adding 55watts/per t-5 bulb to you energy consumption. I don't see the payback in that exchange, mylar on the walls would give you better results, maybe your situatuion is different?? VV


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 16, 2008)

oh duh, you already have the 600 watt, forget I said that. One on the things about t-5's the lower the number of bulbs per fixture the higher the price per bulb, of course. I wouldn't have considered less than the 8 bulb for top lighting and I knew when I made that decision I would not be able to justify using them for side lighting. To balance you would need one for each side, thats 880 watts of side lighting???
Shit now you have me thinking about it.lol VV


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 19, 2008)

THAT'S RIGHT VV TEAR IT DOWN. U KNOW DIRTBAG GETS RESTLESS WHEN HE'S NOT CALLED ON, "IN CLASS"! ALL THIS TALK OF LIGHT HAS GOT ME WORKDED UP.!!! I DO AGREE MORE LIGHT IS BETTER, BUT ITS THE COOLING SYSTEM'S" NEEDED, ALONG WITH SPACE TO CONTROL IT!
LOOK AT THE EARL', ALMOST 2~G' WORTH OF LIGHT! AND WE KNOW WHAT THAT TURNED OUT LIKE! "WOW"! BUT I ALSO FEEL THAT IF U GOT THE PERPETUAL GOING... LIKE U DO! LOOK AT THE BLM. TABLE AND MAKE THAT CALL~! I SAY WITH YUR GREEN THUMB!... A CANDLE AND A STRONG MIRROR, AND CALL IT GOOD! THE BUCKS WERE PUT OUT, WITH THE TLC AND TIME! ITS LOOKING TO ME LIKE THE BUCK ROGERS HAS LANDED! AND IS PULLING DOWN THE RUNWAY! DB.~TLB!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 20, 2008)

Well....It all started with a plan. The end of the plan was to be able to afford to run 1000watt lights. The Michigan Medical Marijuana Bill has that (12) 'maturing plant' limit thing/ patient, 5 patient limit/ caregiver, and you are allowed to re-coup your costs. I read Al B's journal, he said he had 4' by 4' tables, he and I had some pm's about lighting. I noticed his 'special batwing reflector' and read the post about making your own reflector. The way it stood he was covering 4' by 8' with each 1000watt light and harvesting about 2# a month. This did not make sense to me, I did believe he knew what he was doing, he would have to in order to cover that large of an area with one light and get that kind of production, and not having some of the experience I have now, I thought that reflector must really be something, turns out it is by the way. So I built 4' long tables that were just 32" wide, all I could afford to buy 3 of was the 400watt hps and I planned to upgrade as I could afford to. If I had realized the right size was closer to 3' square, I would have done the upgrade to (2) 1000 watt lights and I would have built the tables that size instead of the 32" by 48" that I had to build because no one makes that size. Al recently installed cool tubes for his lights, he pushes the air thru a closed 4" system, checked inflow and outflow temps, the fan he is using is like around 200 cfm and I think its just an axial fan, not real expensive. I am sure he has it installed with as free of an airflow as he can have in his space, and he already had most things 'dialed in', he has the two of them 'chained' in just the one system. All of that would fit my flowering space much better than what I have now. And all I have to do is built (4) 3' by 3' tables, hang (2) 1000 watt air-cooled lights with special 'batwing reflectors', piece of cake. and it would give me room to put in a sink with a drain, I would really like that. The difference in power consumption is about 400 watts total from what I have now, not a big number, and depending on flowering time and yeild may be cheaper?? 
Another discussion I am having is about nutes. Earl makes a point that instead of trying to feed your plants the mamximum they will tolerate you should try to give them the least amount they need. His reasoning is that of the NPK, nitrogen is readily available, I think its over 80% of the air we breath, so if your plants are only getting the mnimum they need they will use the nitrogen from the air. I am getting close to the same results from all of the additives as I was without them, some improvement which I attribute to the air-conditioner and dehumidifier I added this summer. The strains I have now seem to be less nute tolerant than the widow was so I am going to drop back some on nutes to maybe 1200ppm and see what happens with them. Your thoughts? Stop laughing. lol VV


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 20, 2008)

Lol at u never~! ........................bt'
i think u have allways been on the right track, its got to be much easier to fine tune an op' like mine! Than yurs for sure! I do notice alot less heat coming off the cool deluxe hps than the mh'! And would love to have the sink in there!, that is in the works here, if i cant ever get the dam body back...

also, you know yur blm. Tables better than anybody! "???" is there room for improvement! I know in some ways there allways is, but really!???
I got 1~g' wrapped up in air,... In there now! Nothing left in that system to do!
It sounds to me that if the improvements were done, that u would have more room to work, with a smaller of "space" giving the same end results or better! Will it pay for itself, and how long for the re~coop?
And are plants counts that big an issue to you!??? Db.~tlb!


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## hothousemary (Aug 20, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> And would love to have the sink in there!, that is in the works here, if i cant ever get the dam body back...


db Im a licensed plumber, when I come up to visit Ill be glad to get that going for you!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 20, 2008)

Kit is available at Menard's for like $80.00 including a faucet, I would probably replace the faucet neck with some kind of sprayer.
It's paying me back now, so any investment comes from the op. I don't care about plant counts now, I may if the MMJ passes, I want to be able to help run seminars etc. for folks that can suddenly grow their own, provide clones etc, and to do that I would have to stay semi-legal, more scrutiny, except for the higher electric bill. At this point, I have maybe 1/2 in mine, I have a cheap exhaust fan which is approaching two years of operation and needs to be replaces, and I don't have any carbon filtering on that, may not need it if I'm legal. A lot of things to consider, helping people get medicine may require some short term sacrifice. We want to be ready from day one, the bill says maturing plants so clones and mothers should not count. Yep cutting down the size of the tables in flowering, decreasing the number of plants and increasing the lights in that situation can pay back, I would have the room and the lights to clone my ass off. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 20, 2008)

Forgot to post this Juicy Fruit. If the females flower like this little guy is doing..... and I do have one identified female which I placed on the Mother table. The HempWarp is giving me some problems, it seems to autoflower after I've taken cuttings from it once?? VV


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## skunkkushhybrid (Aug 20, 2008)

hey VV... what do you mean auto-flower? do you mean pre-flower, or ctually begin flowering even under an 18/6 or 24/0 light source?


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 20, 2008)

victorvicious said:


> forgot to post this juicy fruit. If the females flower like this little guy is doing..... And i do have one identified female which i placed on the mother table. The hempwarp is giving me some problems, it seems to autoflower after i've taken cuttings from it once?? Vv


the only auto ive heard of so far is the lowrider! ??? Hmmm! Does the caligirl clone??? Wonder if she has same issue! ???




skunkkushhybrid said:


> hey vv... What do you mean auto-flower? Do you mean pre-flower, or ctually begin flowering even under an 18/6 or 24/0 light source?


vv rep this man. I will call u in a couple days to talk about it!
Skh~! Nice to see u !!! Yur welcome in me stuff as well! Anytime! The e' speaks very highly of u! Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 20, 2008)

skunkkushhybrid said:


> hey VV... what do you mean auto-flower? do you mean pre-flower, or ctually begin flowering even under an 18/6 or 24/0 light source?


Well...I mean i has so many hairs on it, it looks like it is flowering, don't know if it will show in these pictures or not. I let you know for sure depending on how this bach of clones does. If I have to get rid of all the 'flowering material' in order to revert them nack to vegging then I will know. And DBB is right, welcome back. VV


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## Dr Shakalu (Aug 20, 2008)

I have read on a thread in here that it is not possible to clone auto plants, but i have a feeling it is possible, just a bit harder with maybe a little less chance that they take...

But i was wondering if you clone from a auto plant isnt the clone going to try and start flowering also? 

All this auto stuff is very new to me, but very very interesting!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 20, 2008)

New to me too. I know I have cloned them before so no reason why I can't do it again. It is possible to just take clones once and then send them on so if I decide to keep this strain that is what I will do. VV


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## GoodFriend (Aug 20, 2008)

skunkkushhybrid said:


> hey VV... what do you mean auto-flower? do you mean pre-flower, or ctually begin flowering even under an 18/6 or 24/0 light source?


less than a month ago i had a sputnik 2.0 that started flowering on me with 18/6 lighting... the mom and clone both started at same time, while every other plant (about a dozen others) remained vegging right along... weirdest thing because i don't think sputnik is supposed to do that... i'll have to ask subcool sometime...


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 22, 2008)

Soo....the journey from seed to perpetual weed is just about over, the first batch of clones is being harvested, two tables of them, and then we will have a hole, we didn't have mothers developed then, now we have some we can take clones from and load the pipeline. Here are tables 1 and two, about four weeks and two weeks along, a little smaller than I am used to, still learning the strains and working with the mothers. Some of those are going to be moving on, they do get a little tall. VV
PS. feel the luv stoney?


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 22, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> less than a month ago i had a sputnik 2.0 that started flowering on me with 18/6 lighting... the mom and clone both started at same time, while every other plant (about a dozen others) remained vegging right along... weirdest thing because i don't think sputnik is supposed to do that... i'll have to ask subcool sometime...


Here are some pictures of the right plant to show, this is the one I took the clones from. I pretty much took the tops off. This is what the mother looks like, less than a week after clones were taken. A close-up of a top, is that pre-flowering? VV


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## PlasmaRadio (Aug 22, 2008)

I like the first pic... Just making sure the plant diagnostic system is still working. 

Good luck with the Juicy Fruit, it is by far my favourite to smoke. I know you'll dig it.


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 22, 2008)

Glad you like it, the led light distorts pictures, the desk is what I have left.lol VV


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 22, 2008)

I have some Widow/ CIndy seeds I started germinating a couple of days ago that I am going to be planting in Rapid Rotters, not many just a table full, maybe a few extra because we will surley get some males. If anyone wants to see that process let me know soon, and I'll take pictures. VV


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## Earl (Aug 22, 2008)

I want to see the WC.

Here are the StinkyWidowCindy


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 23, 2008)

Well...ok, I did just start planting them around 1:00 yesterday though so there isn't much to see, I planted the seeds that had popped, three hours later several more were ready and 36 of them have have been planted, several are above ground now, still not much to look at. I think you have a winner as far as the seeds are concerned, I put 45 in to germinate, lost one that popped open when I went to plant it, 6 of the remaining 8 had popped this morning so I had to make a duffer, you know, a waste not want not measure that will do for now. This of course means we may have some Widow Cindys available for a deserving new grower that lives close enough to stop by and pick them up. VV
PS. Did you get that article?


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 24, 2008)

Grow vv~! Grow!..............................love the bb' pic's, crap luv the hole op', very nice!
So new journal or adding on to this one.?
And i see earl' is growing in buckets. ??? Apple possible ??? May be used.??? Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 24, 2008)

Thanx DirtBag. Three of the four Juicy Fruit turned out to be male, I put one in with the tomotoe plants outside, will try and collect some pollen from it. Just to update those following the WidowCindys, 36 were planted Friday, 6 more the next day, when I got back from the lake today the remaining 2 seeds had popped open and went with the other spares. Here they are today. VV


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## ThaGreenBandit (Aug 24, 2008)

I know this thread is over 2 yrs old, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyways. Victor Vicious, you seem to be the shiznit when it comes to T5's, so I'm hoping I can get some feedback from you. I'm planting 8 autoflowering, dwarf plants (4 White Dwarf, and 4 Lowryder2 X AK47) in a 30 gal reservoir with a T5 CFL setup. I plan on going from seed to smoke with the T5 setup, and was wondering if I could expect some good quality plants using these lights. The total area is less than 3' X 3 Here's the lights I'll be using:

Compact T5 GROW mh/BLOOM hps FLUORESCENT LIGHT 2'ft CFL - eBay (item 180240561414 end time Sep-04-08 08:44:11 PDT)


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 24, 2008)

I looked at a light like that for clones and mothers. The output for the size of the fixture is pretty good, I don't think you will flower 8 plants with it though. If you take a look a few posts back from this one a the update picture's I think you can see what I am talking about. The fixtures over those tables are 4'-8 bulb t-5's and the lumen output is 40,000 or four times what you are talking about here. Look at the light pattern at the sides of the tables, the tables are 32" wide, that is pushing that light to the max for coverage in my opinion. I believe the light you are considering will maybe cover a 2' by 2' and that's about the extent. I also believe its ideal for over clones. The only down side is you can not evenly mix bulb spectrums, its two bulbs together not one blue, one red, one blue.one red. like you can have with the straight bulbs. VV


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## ThaGreenBandit (Aug 24, 2008)

Thanx for the speedy reply, VV, I appreciate that. Okay, here's my situation: I have about $130 total left to spend, and that needs to cover the lights, hydroton, rockwool, and PH testing kit, so my budget for the lights is about $100 so I can afford the other materials. What do you suggest? It will be a closet grow, so T5's seem like the best option. Since I'm growing autoflowering plants that will max out at about 17", can T's be used the whole way through if I mix the lights? For some reason, when I click on the first link, it says the page is unavailable. Once again, thanx for all the help.


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 25, 2008)

ThaGreenBandit said:


> Thanx for the speedy reply, VV, I appreciate that. Okay, here's my situation: I have about $130 total left to spend, and that needs to cover the lights, hydroton, rockwool, and PH testing kit, so my budget for the lights is about $100 so I can afford the other materials. What do you suggest? It will be a closet grow, so T5's seem like the best option. Since I'm growing autoflowering plants that will max out at about 17", can T's be used the whole way through if I mix the lights? For some reason, when I click on the first link, it says the page is unavailable. Once again, thanx for all the help.


I don't think you can cover the area with t-5's for that kind of money, and cfls would be your better option. There are many journals posted here of closet growers and the success they have had with them. I really haven't researched cost on them, I did take a look at some high powered ones for a reasonable price, like $20/ bulb, they required mogul sockets, another $10.00 or so. Most folks use the ones that fit a standard base, I don't know their totals, I am sure they would share that information. 
Yes, the t-5 lights can be used the whole way, for clones and seedling I just start with 4 of the 8 bulbs lit, but that is 20,000 lumens. Based on the budget, and the amount of plants, get what you can afford to balance, you will have some males? and maybe add a light or so as your budet allows, if nothing else you will at least change your cash outflow for weed to an investment. If you mean my current setup isn't available by link? you can always pull up my profile and click on Threads Started, there are only a few, that link should work, the real discussion of the t-5's and the results I got with strains I had grown for a year are there, the t-5's are not inexpensive, there is a minimum investment necessary, payback is there. And those trees in my Avatar were grown under t-5's. Hope this helps? VV


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## ThaGreenBandit (Aug 25, 2008)

Yeah, I've looked at a bunch of the threads, which are very helpful. I think my main problem is that I'm still a little unclear about the whole lighting thing. Right now, I'm trying to figure out a DIY solution to my problem. So T5 CFL's are the best bet in my situation? The buds on your trees, which are nice as hell, are they compact or fluffy and airy? I've read that T5's promote great resin production. Was this the case for you? I'm using feminized seeds, so I don't think male plants will be an issue. Thanks, once again, for helping a noobie brotha out. I'm learning slowly but surely...


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## B. THC R+D (Aug 25, 2008)

Daddy dont play!.... Surf back a bit, there's a bud that BT'  is trying to cram in a jar! "the large kind".... And it bit him! Lol!

@ the VV' ~ "toe shower" !!! Hehehehe!


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## Thraxz13 (Aug 27, 2008)

Great Thread, I just put 15 GDP and Three Aura Indicas In a Cup of water and then in the Napkin three days ago, They have almost all opened and are now in rapid rooters!! I put them in the rooters yesterday morning and today they have almost all came up!! I did fifteen of the GDP recently and got 7 females, They are beauties four weeks into flowering.. The Aura Indicas I tried germinating seven and not one made it, I was a little disappointed seeing how I ordered those online from a well known Seed bank, Hopefully the Three I have left will make it, Seem to be opening slowly.. 

I dont give them any type of nutrient until they have there first set of true leaves, I figure it will weed out the weak ones!! Any suggestions as to get stronger healthier plants would be and is appreciated!!


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 27, 2008)

Well.... that is interesting Thrazx, now you need to put this is your journal so folks can follow it. VV


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## anhedonia (Aug 27, 2008)

is this organic grow?


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 28, 2008)

I don't think it would qualify as an 'organic grow'. It might in some States. The medium, coco-coir, is and the nutes are, that is the reason I use the double air stones in each res. I am not sure the RO water I am using qualifies. 
Just a quick update, I transplanted the WidowCindy's last night and modified a new rolling cart I bought to put lights over them. So far 37 of the original 44 have been transplanted and it looks like three more will make it, so around 90% success with these seeds. And... here are the clones we took at the last cutting, no obvious fatalities yet, you may see some mothers in the background, ready for the next cuttting. That gives me in the neighborhood of 80 plants to put into final size pots over the next week or so. I am satisfied that one more round of cuttings would get me to perpetual harvest, just not happy with the mother plants yet. There does seem to be a learning curve there to me, others don't seem too have that problem???? Hmmm... It does seem like I am getting long enough stems now, they are getting so tall I will have to top them to keep them. And their replacements are not doing as well as I had hoped. 3 of the four juicyfruits were male, the pollen from one has been harvested and the remaining female was already pulled back to the mother table, I may have to take a clone or two off of her whether she is ready or not. I did take one early clone from the BlueBerryMother we saved and it seems to be doing well, maybe I just want too may clones too fast? VV


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## Barking Mad (Aug 28, 2008)

That lot must keep you pretty busy VV.
You can see in the quality that you have put a lot of time in.
How come you have purple light? It almost looks like the UVB I have on one of my plants, (my avatar)
Looking forward to seeing your progress as I am toying with the idea of a few harvests if not perpetual.

Feel tree to stop by.


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 28, 2008)

Uhhh.... because blue and red make purple?? That is the led light you are seeing. VV


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## HazyEyes (Sep 2, 2008)

Whats up Doc?? i need some of that real medication. sensi bleed through out the nation. RastaMAn


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 2, 2008)

hey hazy, every thing back to normal? Medibud is just about ready. VV


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## HazyEyes (Sep 3, 2008)

yep everything is going alot smoother now damn iv been busy man i moved had to check all my records and so on, but finaly i am alive lol. ill prob start up again in a month or so. REALY how is my lady doing the last pic of her was very nice i know she is being watched over with care. did you get those clones into the hydro system?? everything running smooth.

 THC whats goin on.


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## B. THC R+D (Sep 3, 2008)

Vv~ check yur email


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 3, 2008)

Harvesting it tomorrow, yeild will not be great, as you know. with the soil in a hydro operation. Glad to here you are getting it all sorted out, clones are available if you need some, I do have a few seeds as well. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 5, 2008)

Soo.... got the second 3' sq. table built, I love it when a plan starts to come together and Postie's friend gave him a grow light. Postie is planning a 'stealth grow in a co-op and that 1000 watt furnace is a little more than he can use. BUT My op is not a small closet grow.....which means I have a new little project started, a Batwing Reflector for a 1000watt light. So far I have had to cut one piece of metal and drill some holes, it is starting to take shape. VV


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## GoodFriend (Sep 5, 2008)

thats pretty slick my friend!

you gonna do anything to help reflectivity?

or is it good to go? i love DIY!


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 5, 2008)

Not sure yet, it is polished aluminum. Al B mention using high temp white paint, not sure that is necessary. VV


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## mattso101 (Sep 5, 2008)

wrap it in mylar? or would it melt?


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## GoodFriend (Sep 5, 2008)

... i'd think i'd be fine with just having it as polished aluminum.... 1000w'ers kick ass=]


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## MrHowardMarks (Sep 13, 2008)

just finished page one, it's gonna be a long read, scribed.

Like you said our setups seem similar.


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 13, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> just finished page one, it's gonna be a long read, scribed.
> 
> Like you said our setups seem similar.


Well.. yes, except for the six stations instead of four. Nothing new here for an experineced grower, you could just skip to this post. Its what I have right now. And this is one of those times I will just post the pictures, the clones are showing roots out of 3" rockwool blocks at day ten so I have some tranplanting to do, already showed that. I will be posting the DIY Batwing reflector with cool tube as my eight thread, it has been just about two years now. VV


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## B. THC R+D (Sep 15, 2008)

Looking very nice over there. Vv'
how have the clones been treating you... Looking real good by the pic's

miss in ya~ bt'

db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 15, 2008)

Hey dirtbag, love ya too man. I thought about making a new thread, but I though 2 in the same week would be too many. I couldn't think of exact title, something like the complete explanation of Al B's cloning or something. The one on the left is a 10 day old clone and the one on the right a seedling planted 8/22.
I went thru the mother plants yesterday, you look at them a little different when you keep the 5.5mm+ stem size and 9" height in mind. I used 3" cubes, they didn't have any of the wrapped 1-1/2" that day. I am sold on Dip and Grow and hydrozime, worked in the aerocloner, with and without medium, you can see the results in the rockwool and these are a little bigger.lol I did get the small cubes for the next bunch which I will take tomorrow.
I got everything ready for the new light, put the bulb in ......VV


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## B. THC R+D (Sep 18, 2008)

Looking oh! So nice and purple...!!! Do like the color those light put out.
Very nice to read u like the dip and gro. And the hygrozyme!!!

Check yur email...!!!

Db.~tlb!


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## Barking Mad (Sep 18, 2008)

Great Journal VV, I do come by sometimes but, just looking to how it's meant to be done.

Can I ask you, what is causing the purple light in this pic?
Is it blue and red leds or a UV light or something else altogether.

Sorry if I have asked before, (I might have).

Great grow, you certainly know your stuff.


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 18, 2008)

> Barking Mad said:
> 
> 
> > Great Journal VV, I do come by sometimes but, just looking to how it's meant to be done.
> ...


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## mattso101 (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey VV love your gow, I have been still here with ya. Give a liittle peek at my Cinderella 99 journal to see my progress. Its impessive


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 18, 2008)

mattso101 said:


> Hey VV love your gow, I have been still here with ya. Give a liittle peek at my Cinderella 99 journal to see my progress. Its impessive


 besides that the buds look great. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 19, 2008)

I guess putting that light together took longer than I thought, I did learn all I need to know about ballasts in the process. The next one won't take more than a couple of days. In the meantime we are making some progress with filling up the production line. 
Here is the mother/ clone/ seedling side. The clones on the left were just taken Wednesday, the seedlings are four weeks old today, I retired 5 mother plants and have replacements on the table. 
Tables 1 and 2. Table one is all clones taken on 9/2, not quite the size we want yet, they went into flowering on 9/12 and 9/13 and yes, I know I rushed them a little, they are in 3" rockwool cubes placed in pots with coco-coir, seem to be doing ok for a week. Table 2 has some room on it which will be filled today with 24 of the widow/cindy seedlings, some of those will be male. I did save 10 of those to let them veg a little, take clones and sex the clones, which I have been told for the last two years is the correct way to sex your plants, old people are just slow to learn, gotta luv old people. 
Table 3 and 4. Now these tables have been in flowering under the t-5's from 4 to 6 weeks, average length of flowering has been close to 12 weeks which is the reason I made the change (well that and someone gave me a 1000watt ballast) By the time I figured out the 'free ballast' didn't work, I already had about $400.00 invested in the air handling, bulb and cooltube, and Batwing Reflector. The new ballast with the baasr was $170.00. I routed the air handling over the top of the other two tables so all I have to do when I put the next one together is cut out the section for the cool tube, install a couple of clamps and plug it in. I used 6" ducting and bought the 200cfm in-line duct fan (axial) you could use 4" flexible aluminum dryer type ducting for a little less than I spent, in the case of keeping the light cool more is better. I put the fan on a timer, it comes on when the light does and runs for 15 minutes after the light shuts off. VV


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## Barking Mad (Sep 19, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> > That is the led light, the Procyon 100. 100 watts, 400 watt equivelent, no heat.
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## VictorVIcious (Sep 19, 2008)

Barking Mad said:


> VictorVIcious said:
> 
> 
> > I thought it might haver been leds.
> ...


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## CaliGurl (Oct 2, 2008)

B. THC R+D said:


> the only auto ive heard of so far is the lowrider! ??? Hmmm! Does the caligirl clone??? Wonder if she has same issue! ???
> 
> *No issues on my end.. well aside the fact that the person carring for them while I was on a Business trip must have forgotten to water EVERY single plant. *


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## CaliGurl (Oct 2, 2008)

*Mine too... Looking good VV I have some more JF on the way.*



PlasmaRadio said:


> I like the first pic... Just making sure the plant diagnostic system is still working.
> 
> Good luck with the Juicy Fruit, it is by far my favourite to smoke. I know you'll dig it.


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 2, 2008)

Yes, I was sorry to hear about yours cali. I retired the Juicy Fruit Mother, took 13 clones from her and said goodbye. Last week and this week I have been staying at my moms a few days, she had a tia the Friday before, high blood pressure and pulse readings so we (my brothers and sisters) decided we want to monitor those things for a while until we can find out what is going on. She lives about three hours north of me near Fife Lake in Kalskaska county. She seems to feel ok now , bp and pulse are still elevated. VV


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## CaliGurl (Oct 5, 2008)

*Well let me know how you enjoy that smoke, and hope your mom's health improves my thoughts with your family.*


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## stickyfingaz89 (Oct 20, 2008)

you look like you know alot regarding growing, i have a problem with heat im using a medium size grow tent. atm i have a 300watt flo- unit for the first 3 weeks of my lowryder grow then a 400 watt hps for the flowering, only probz is the temp is hitting 83.f now and i have a intake an out take and a normal blowing cold air on to the unit plus i got a cool mist humidifer to try and cope with heat but it is still no differnt any advice would be great thanks check out my grow if u want to c more i have pics on there its called a 400 watt hps lowryder mix soil grow or just type in my name in the search cheers


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 20, 2008)

stickyfingaz89 said:


> you look like you know alot regarding growing, i have a problem with heat im using a medium size grow tent. atm i have a 300watt flo- unit for the first 3 weeks of my lowryder grow then a 400 watt hps for the flowering, only probz is the temp is hitting 83.f now and i have a intake an out take and a normal blowing cold air on to the unit plus i got a cool mist humidifer to try and cope with heat but it is still no differnt any advice would be great thanks check out my grow if u want to c more i have pics on there its called a 400 watt hps lowryder mix soil grow or just type in my name in the search cheers


I would recommend a cool tube enclosed air cooling system, necessary with hid lights imo, this is another one of the things I had to learn. I installed a 1000watt hid with the cool tube and a 200cfm inline axial fan $28.00 at bigbox stores. I have probably 20' of ducting with several bends it the line. Temperature actually dropped when I used it to replaced 2 t-5 lights. Al B Fuct ran tests on his in his workshop before installing them, he was right, you don't need a monster fan, push the cold air thru the light and out. I posted the build of the batwing reflector, may want to look at that in diy section. Having the light in a closed system takes it out of the equation for humidity etc. You need ti put a link to your journal in your signature Control Panel left side of my rollitup. VV


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## Earl (Oct 22, 2008)

Hey Vic.

I have a purple cindy male here for ya.


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 22, 2008)

oh shit, now I'll have to plant some of those. whoops, no I don't I already have 4 of them vegging, probably tke clones from them in about 2 weeks. The widow/ cindys are a little over 3', had to bend a few of them over. VV


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## CaliGurl (Oct 22, 2008)

*Hey VV I just got my BB in and was going to run them along with the JF and thought you said that the BB was hardier and needed less nutes then the rest of what you were running , just wanted to double check that with you asI also have my WW always going, and had no problems with the ww and JF being on the same feeding schedule, but now that I switched to DWC I was pondering the thought of running the BB seperate but wanted to check with you about your experience with them before I made arrangments for all that.*


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## Earl (Oct 23, 2008)

post a pix of them please.


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 23, 2008)

Hope everything's going well with your mom, and your garden.

Some newb was flameing me cause he didn't believe a 4 bulb t5 had 40k lumens. Even after I linked him to a product page. I sent the guy asking the original question your way, he has a 4x4x4 cabinet. Told him you know what a t5 can do. 

Good luck anyway, I should be flowering in 2-3 weeks or so.

How's everything going?


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 24, 2008)

CaliGurl said:


> *Hey VV I just got my BB in and was going to run them along with the JF and thought you said that the BB was hardier and needed less nutes then the rest of what you were running , just wanted to double check that with you asI also have my WW always going, and had no problems with the ww and JF being on the same feeding schedule, but now that I switched to DWC I was pondering the thought of running the BB seperate but wanted to check with you about your experience with them before I made arrangments for all that.*


You are correct, I found they needed lower early nutes. I have been told they grow out of that when they are ready for flowering. After a conversation I had with Earl, I have lowered my ppm anyway and the blues may do ok. I still have two clones from them and will continue to mess with them. The Juicy Fruits I saved for mothers are all doing well and these are third generation known females, still moved a few of them into flowering. I suppose I could post some pictures, I just don't want to bore anyone.



> MrHowardMarksHope everything's going well with your mom, and your garden.
> 
> Some newb was flameing me cause he didn't believe a 4 bulb t5 had 40k lumens. Even after I linked him to a product page. I sent the guy asking the original question your way, he has a 4x4x4 cabinet. Told him you know what a t5 can do.
> 
> ...


Thanx. Closet growers should investigate the t-5's if stealth is an issue, it takes an 8 bulb t-5 to produce 40,000lumens from what I have seen. 
My mom is doing well, she had a tia, like a mini stroke, no further incidents, she has been checked from head to toe, has some allergy, and is in good health otherwise. She is 85, doesn't drive much at night, lives fairly independant. I have committed to taking her to any doctors appointments she has, and feel fortunate to do this for her. We are working on Geraniums in her garage, its heated, she has a few plant stands, I will have to expand them. I should be harvesting my first 8 week close to proper crop in the next week or so, clones are taking and ready to flower in two weeks, the entire operation is improving as I begin to take time with the plants. I found I was overwatering for the medium, and am getting better looking results with less, 1 1/2 to 2" of water, twice a day and done. 
My support group is improving in plant knowledge as well, 2 of them have purchased homes and want to get their feet wet, and I encourage that. Especially with the Medical Marijuana Ballot Proposal we will be voting on, polls show 58% approval.



> Earlpost a pix of them please.


Well ok, here are some pics of what is going on now. The first 2 tables are 5 weeks and 7 weeks in flowering, the third is the widow/cindys in flowering. most of them went into flowering on 9/19 so a little over four weeks now, seem to have slowed growth in height and are starting to fill out, here is a closer shot of bud development, 2 weeks flowering, clones not quite 1 week, mothers and a few more clones. I have extra clones right now, haven't sexed 6 of the WC's yet, some will be male I am sure. VV


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## PlasmaRadio (Oct 24, 2008)

I don't know which deadly sin these pics evoke most in me:

Greed, cause I want that ganj.
Envy, cause I want to grow shit like that.
Lust, cause I might have sex with the plants.
Wrath, mostly because of the aforementioned sins.
Gluttony, but I always have the munchies.
Pride, well, not so much that one.

Having said that I would have to go with Sloth, since I am probably just going to have a nap.

PS: I hope your moms is ok, strokes are scary shit.


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 25, 2008)

Thanx Plasma, at this point you may be justified. Now that I have most of the kinks worked out of the system, I have been able to indentivy some problems in the way I was doing things. I was filling the flood tables to high for the medium I am using, and I was planting the clones out of the aerocloners too deep. I had changed to larger gph pumps and did not adjust the timer for the faster flow. We also changed to using 3" rockwool cubes for clones, cost is higher, I have used them a few times before, always had the biggest stems. I was concerned at first that it would take longer to get roots 'out the bottom' of the blocks, so far 10 days, well within the two week rotation. Now we will have to see what the yield is. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 25, 2008)

Looking good Vic, a couple more weeks til I start blooming.


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## raiderman (Oct 25, 2008)

great job, the grow room i aIways wanted.haha. T-5sIook great on the mother pIants. my grow rooms are separate, kind of inconvenience.but it worx. i'm doing a crop of B.moonshine in one and of G13 HP in the other.take my word brother you cant bore an entheusiast,haha. subscribed.


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 25, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Looking good Vic, a couple more weeks til I start blooming.


Yes, I saw the time frame in your journal, saw you meet Earl etc.

I have to take a minute to say good bye to Al B Fuct, any one that has followed my posts knows I have followed all of his threads for the two years I have been a member. I missed the chance to say goodbye. He did leave a blueprint for ..........many things, the way he treated us all with our repeated questions. I will miss seeing that avatar and will always be proud to be a FuctHead. kiss-assVV


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 25, 2008)

No way, Al's gone! 

That blows... I needed him to answer a question. Maybe you can help vic...

I'm looking for a new electrode for my pH pen. It's a eutech pH pro series 2. He has the same one, so I figured he'd know. My local hydro store want's 65 bucks for an opened box one, meaning it's used... Bullshit, they should be 40 bucks at most. Know of a good online retailer?

Yeah, I remember you mentioning Earl, and I saw his Hempy thread...


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 25, 2008)

I just checked the Al B Faqt thread, I was the last person to ask my only question... Man, that sucks. 

Good for him, I guess RIU was his springboard to bigger and better things.


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 25, 2008)

Not really, he was always here to help, the first thing he posted was Get A Harvest Every Two Weeks, he was pulling 2#'s a month at that time and kept making improvments in his op. When he first posted I read it, knew I wasn't ready for it, I did follow it in designing my room. He and I had several conversations about my use of the 'other lights'. I wish him only the best.
Earl is the one that would know about replacement probes, I have the BlueLab Combo meter, haven't had to replace any, just weekly cleaning and calibrating. It will accept other manufactures replacment probe. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 25, 2008)

Thanks V, i'll ask earl, I had a bluelab trimeter... The replacement probes cost 200 bucks, the whole unit is 300... Keep them clean and hopefully they'll last more than 2 years.

Oh, don't know if you knew this, but the blulab cleaner is excellent for getting the nute stains off your measuring devices, like a graduated cylinder, or a syringe.


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## Earl (Oct 25, 2008)

I'm glad to read your mother is doing well.

Are you planning on coming down to get that male PC?

My pH meter is like yours 
and uses a replaceable probe with a bnc connector






I highly recommend either this PinPoint(american made)
or the Milwaukee Sm101,
as they both have very high resolution of .01,
and the replacement probes are about $50-60 on ebay.

A new Milwaukee Sm101 is about $80 delivered,
the Pinpoint is slightly higher.

I would get one of these, 
before I paid $60 for a used probe.

Just a reminder, never never never put your pH robe into RO,
and always calibrate at two set points of 4.01 and 7.0
.


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 25, 2008)

Thanks Earl, I'm going to buy a new one before I have to replace it again, I ended up paying 50 bucks. He said it was new, just out of the box.

I couldn't wait, risk stressing the plants on a critical transplant.


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 26, 2008)

I may come down mid November, not to get a plant, just the pollen. I think mhm has some breeding experience? I still have the Juicy Fruit Pollen and ,,hmmm what else did I save pollen from.. maybe hempwarp. 
I have the GrapePurple Cindy and Big Girl, 4 of each, in veg now. I will clone them my way, take clones and send the originals on. This is a logistic decision, I don't have the extra room for another group of mothers right now. The widow cindys have it all taken up right now. We took 27 clones off 7 plants last Friday, those will go into flowering in a week and then we will know how many are really mothers a few weeks later. The other 22 clones are known females so we can keep production going while we sex the WC's, and in the meantime our 6 Juicy Fruit Mothers are developing nicely, and the 6 NorthernBerry mothers have already recovered from their last donation.
The Michigan Medical Marijuana ballot initiative is still over 50% approval in all of the polls, it looks like it will pass, we will need everyone to vote, and your State is on one of the lists to be targeted next for MMJ. WhinnyWalter and company have helped us more than they hurt us, talking out their ass, all of the major newspapers have endorsed the proposal. Last week our spokesperson, Diane Byrum, asked the opposition leader, Judge Bill Schutte, if he ever smoked marijuana, he admitted he had, then got mad when she pointed out it didn't seem to have ruined his life. I know folks that say he was a big stoner back in the day. I hope the fry the sob. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 26, 2008)

I'm still hopeful that the Supreme Court will rule that the DEA has no buisness busting medicinal users.

I have almost no breeding experience, my Silver Mango is my first cross, but I've read a lot of material on the topic.

V- you say you take clones then send the mother to flower?

I try to keep the "seed" mother as long as possible to take clones from, and put my clones into flower. I heard that the stability lowers as does the quality from clone to clone... Like the movie "Multiplicity" with Michael Keaton.

I don't know how true this is, but I don't want to risk having inferior genetics. Ever heard anything like this?

I've gotten many strains from clone, and grew them for a couple years, clone to clone, and didn't have a notifiable difference in the production or quality.


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 26, 2008)

Until this batch of widow cindys, I had always done it the other way, I didn't have a mother table until recently. The first time I took a large number of clones was when I took 40 of plants that had been flowering for 8 weeks, you see some changes, two generations of clones later you will get back to what you want. In this case it a matter of space. If I take clones from the originals and send the originals into flowering, I will have small clones. By the time the clones are ready to veg for a week or two I will know their sex and by the time they are ready to contribute clones I will have a good idea of what they are going to finish like. What it amounts to is an experiment not a table full.
I have repeated Al's message that developing mothers is the key to setting up a perpetual harvest, and I have that going now with the northern berrys. The ones I am taking clones off now are third generation and I have their replacments in vegging now. The next cutting I will take enough to fill a table and replace those mothers. 
In this case I don't want them for mothers, I have 20 mothers without them and all but 6 of those I already know the sex of, I won't know about those other 6 until the clones I took from them a week show sex, 3 or 4 weeks from now. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 26, 2008)

Oh, I forgot you were doing the whole perpetual thing.

I pull down a harvest, and have clones ready for the next grow, setup for bloom, veg a little and bloom again. Not perpetual, but I veg a little from clone in the bloom room.


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 27, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Oh, I forgot you were doing the whole perpetual thing.
> 
> I pull down a harvest, and have clones ready for the next grow, setup for bloom, veg a little and bloom again. Not perpetual, but I veg a little from clone in the bloom room.


I am not sure I understand. You intend to take enough clones for four table under 600 watt lights, harvest and start again? So you are going the route dirtbagbrain was, fewer larger plants with veg time of 6 to 14 weeks depending on plants development. It doesn't matter to me if you harvest a few every two weeks or all of them every 8 weeks, its still perpetual. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 27, 2008)

Umm... I don't think you get it... I have a seperate room for mothers and clones. As soon as I harvest everything, I put the clones into the flowering room.

Don't know what dirtbag does.


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## raiderman (Oct 27, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Umm... I don't think you get it... I have a seperate room for mothers and clones. As soon as I harvest everything, I put the clones into the flowering room.
> 
> Don't know what dirtbag does.


dirtbagbrain???hahaha,funny.


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 28, 2008)

raiderman said:


> dirtbagbrain???hahaha,funny.


 yes he was, he and I came up with that name in pm's. 
I do understand, I don't have seperate rooms, I use Panda plastic to seperate mine. Dirtbag brian uses 2 1000watt lights for his grow, one vertical with 3 plants around it in his flowering area. He is limited in the number of plants he can grow using his medical card, so he grows big plants, takes clones off them just before moving them to flowering. By the time he harvest the three monsters the clones are ready to go into flowering. He pulls a pound+ and he does it in a wheelchair. he signed in as B. thc+r&d. He and a large group, the little bus group, tlb, decided to leave rollitup over rule changes, seems their pm's were being read. I always thought they had the right to 'look' at them, and I don't have the time to re-establish all of the information I know is here. 
The difference in the 2 ways is the space required. In order to have clones to replace all of your tables at once you have to have your flowering space twice + room for mothers. Since I only replace one table of plants at a time, and put my clones into flowering at the time they will be transplanted there are in rockwool block in the clone mother area and take maybe 2 sqft for 40 or so. The end result can be similar, brain proves that. I think of it like this, you have one plant with 6-9 good cola branches, I have 6-9 branches as individual plants. I can put 34 plants on my 3' by3' tables, trim of the lower branches, brain calls it 'limbing' and get the same kind of yield total from the same watts of lights. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 29, 2008)

Yeah, I couldn't care less if Chiceh FDD or potroast read my pm's.

That sucks they left, I do see him around from time to time. If they're upset about pm's being read, why don't they communicate via email?

I do what brian does, take cutting before flowering, by the time flowerings done, the clones are ready to flower.


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## potpimp (Oct 29, 2008)

It's not often that I spend the whole fricking day reading 52 pages of posts - but I made an exception for this one. Vic, I only wish I could rep you a dozen times. I think your success with the LED's is not to be taken lightly ...so I ordered three of the 50w panels from HTG Supply. They are not the exact same one you use but I figure they will do the same thing and they cost a little less and have a little more wattage. We'll see how it goes. Actually I just thought they looked so cool, like a black light on the plants, that I just had to justify it. 

BTW, I was planning on moving this spring but things didn't work out so I missed my window for an outdoor grow. I had planned on starting my next grow the first of February BUT after reading your post here, I started today. I took out 20 beans of Maui Waui to germ, pH'ed some water and soaked my RW cubes and put the beans on the warming pad. I also got out my lights and other stuff to make sure I have everything ready. I'm pumped!


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 29, 2008)

WB potpimp, things are finally improving with these new strain, the Blue Berry is finicky and doesn't seem to fit the system, I still hae a few of them around, Northern berry is the main strain now, the juicy fruit could replace it, and so far I have 18 female widowcindys from seeds that Earl gave me, around 42" tall, 4 weeks in flowering, We are taking bigger clones and pretty much putting them in flowering at two weeks. DonnieOsmand had some maui wowie, never did get to try it. VV


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## Earl (Oct 30, 2008)

How are the WC smelling ?


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 30, 2008)

with their noses??


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## Earl (Oct 30, 2008)

what does nose smoke like ?


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 30, 2008)

lmfao won't know that for at least four more weeks. VV


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## Earl (Nov 1, 2008)

Just in time for thanksgiving.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 2, 2008)

Now thats a thought....VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 2, 2008)

I guess I'll check back later.


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## raiderman (Nov 2, 2008)

you sure got quite a nice setup, i'm gonna go bak through your journal and study this, now this is wat i want to have , .yoursef and mr. Nice will probably be my mentors,lol. i'm jus a tadpole in a big pond,lol.subscribed.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 2, 2008)

raiderman said:


> you sure got quite a nice setup, i'm gonna go bak through your journal and study this, now this is wat i want to have , .yoursef and mr. Nice will probably be my mentors,lol. i'm jus a tadpole in a big pond,lol.subscribed.


welcome raider, MHM has more plant experience than I have, haven't viewed MrNice's journal. It has been fun. VV


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## raiderman (Nov 2, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> welcome raider, MHM has more plant experience than I have, haven't viewed MrNice's journal. It has been fun. VV


have you ever heard the expression" i found a home at RIU",lol.ive gotten lots of stuff MHM ,ive been chkin everything but the electrician part, over my head, i'd have to have someone come out and do it up, before i put it up,lol. you got some killer strains, i'm a big blues man mysef , ,, doing BM, got a few pacs of dutch passion reg. BB seeds, reg.B.cheese seeds,australian Blue ,lol.


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## kpw555 (Nov 4, 2008)

Nice setup VV +rep for you


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 4, 2008)

Thanx, kp, welcome. I see you have a journal started and you are getting some responses. I like the widow, and I do have a widowpurple cindy cross growing now. I have to go vote, medical marijuana is ballot proposal number one, we have a 2 to 1 lead in the polls, now we have to finish. Everyone get out and vote. Please? VV


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## raiderman (Nov 4, 2008)

sounds great , here in texas ,it'd be the last one in the country if everything went that way.lol.


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## Earl (Nov 4, 2008)

raiderman said:


> sounds great , here in texas ,it'd be the last one in the country if everything went that way.lol.


2010 baby


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 4, 2008)

There are cities in Texas that are starting to change their laws, can't afford all of the arrests. VV


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## raiderman (Nov 4, 2008)

it would be ns. yea i like ole friedman he would legalize it ,lol.
funny thing happened today. the hydropnics store i order my stuff from sent me 2 lights again, thats twice in 2 yrs thats happened.the first sent 2-600 watt hps sunsystem2 , this one is a 250 watt conversion light w/builtin balast.comes with MH and hps bulbs, i am gonna keep clones veging under the MH. will keep mothers going under the other MH, and keep my 2-600s HPS in constant flower.


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## Styl!st07 (Nov 5, 2008)

U make everything look so easy.

Nice work VV 

Voted Yesterday, We are making history with this one..............

- Styl!st


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## raiderman (Nov 5, 2008)

heres a few pics share with ya ,left 1 are g13 hp grow- others b.moonshine grow.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2008)

they look nice, never tried those strains, feel free to offer samples, discretly of course. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 12, 2008)

The idea of this journal was to show how to go from seed to perpetual weed. Heres a trip around the room, starting with the clone/ mother side, you can also see some new strains we are working with on the rolling table I put together, I'll post that in a new thread, its a simple diy. This is what the plants look like two weeks into flowering, the were clones cut on 10/17, so not quite a month, a lot of shorter widowcindys among them. I had saved 10 widow cindys to work with as mothers, three of those I didn't get good results so I moved them on into flowering, all of them ended up female, had one more that wasn't developing good as a mother, took two clones anyway and moved it on, it is female. So I am thinking, that is 4 out of 10 female, must be 4 of these remaining trainees are male, 50/50 right? So far I have 4 identified female and one that I am not quite sure about, only 1 of those 10 males. Of course this leaves me with some extra clones, I took enough so if half of the widow cindys turned out male I would still have my production line running. 
This next group is the original, 5 weeks in flowering, identify as you go, widow cindys, tallest ones are right at 3'. 
These next two table, the one on the left is almost all being harvested over the next week and the one on the right is 4 weeks in flowering, clones taken on 9/29. 
The clones on the right were just cut Saturday, the ones on the left are the leftovers from the cut on 10/18, and yes they are the ones that didn't do as well, point is, if you take the time to develope the mothers as the pros tell us we should, you start with big clones, you get bigger plants faster.

The best looking widow cindy cola, its a little over 7 inches right now and should be a foot or so by harvest time, I think its a winner Earl. This one is one of the WC's I had cut the growing tips on and didn't like for a mother. It will be interesting to see how the harvests from these two plants compare. 
That little tray of clones you see in picture is just the opposite, I have two new strains I am working with, GrapePurpleCindy and Big Gurl. I don't have the room for mothers of these strains right now, so we took small clones from them and moved the originals into flowering. It does take longer to develope mother plants this way which is exactly what I want in this case. VV


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## CaliGurl (Nov 12, 2008)

*Very nice VV, love all the pics!*


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 13, 2008)

Very nice VV, the perpetual cycle is really in action!


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## Earl (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks for the pictures.

I trimmed some of the small uindergrowth from my hempy buckets last week,
and some of the baby buds have a bubble gum flavor, very nice.

I hope you find one of those.

I think your WW male I am growing 
is doing very well.

It has the best posture of all the plants, 
except for the big PC.

The WW male sure did not mind the high pH like the others did.
.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2008)

I moved the widowCindy's under the 1000 watt today, had to switch the tables around to do it, the one they are on is a little shorter than the others are and the plants are a little taller. This is what is looks like now. Took less than an hour to make the changes because all of my tables are on wheels. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2008)

If I were going to send seeds, I would probably do something like this. First I would start with a Historic Sign made from good corragated cardboard and cut off a little piece of it. Then I would take some cotton, the q-tips seems to work, and stop one end, place the seeds in the tubes and stuff them with another q-tip. I would probably put two initial names for the seeds, something like,BG for big gurl, CC for chemo/cindy, WC for widow/ purple cindy and SW for stinky widow. SO when its all done it looks like this. Then I would find a nice card like this one, put a piece of the historic sign in it and mail it. Now if I were going to do this, all I would need would be an address. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 13, 2008)

Or you could put them inside the black part of a CD case, the part that hold the disc...


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## chucktownskunk (Nov 13, 2008)

well VV its been a while how have you been doing i see all is well. after you get the card done christmas is coming up you can send me one of those historic cards!!!


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## chucktownskunk (Nov 13, 2008)

look out on pic 5 you are going to be using your keyboard next to send seeds putting them between the keys


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Or you could put them inside the black part of a CD case, the part that hold the disc...


That was what my first seeds came in. lol I just wanted to use the sign, and this is they way the ones I got from peakseeds came.You have too look close at the card. VV


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## chucktownskunk (Nov 13, 2008)

hey vv we have both ordered from peak seeds have you ever ordered from nirvana cause im a little scetched about it?


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## Earl (Nov 13, 2008)

Did the Michigan Marijuana vote pass ?


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## ColaFarmer (Nov 13, 2008)

Yes it did.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 14, 2008)

ColaFarmer said:


> Yes it did.


By a 2 to 1 margin, we kicked their ass. Ohio is one of the next targets for MMJ. Doea Ohio have the ballot inititaive? VV


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## raiderman (Nov 14, 2008)

hell yea, come pass that shit down here in texas , thats wy those ppl down here in office aint wortha shit, hell they need to smoke instead of being an alchoholic.,lol.


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 14, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> By a 2 to 1 margin, we kicked their ass. Ohio is one of the next targets for MMJ. Doea Ohio have the ballot inititaive? VV



I don't think so...

But who knows, Ohio is *finally* a democratic state, so hopefully it will follow suit. 

What are the conditions to the mmj in Michigan, or hasn't it got to the proposed laws and regulation of cannabis?

I don't know where to search for this info.


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## Earl (Nov 14, 2008)

Everyone needs to fill out this form, 
and fire it off to your congressman.

Contact congress to support the decrim marijuana House Bill 5843

I think this will get done quickly when Obama takes office.

.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 14, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> I don't think so...
> 
> But who knows, Ohio is *finally* a democratic state, so hopefully it will follow suit.
> 
> ...


 Ohio Patient Network - Home
StopArrestingPatients.org 

Our website has the full text of the initiative which has now been passed into law, amending our State Constitution to protect Doctors that 'recommend' Medical Marihuana and patients that use it with their Doctors recommendation. 
Basics, 12 plants, + 2 1/2 oz, identification card, seeya. Caregiver can be designated by patient, caregiver can grow for up to 5 patients. And possess the 2 1/2 oz per patient. 
I think it is worth reading, anyone that ever did read it while I was collecting signatures to put it on the ballot, signed the petition, there are additional penalties written in to the initiative for anyone committing fraud ( selling weed). You are allowed to re-coop the expenses of growing if you are a caregiver. This bill is about Medical access to Marijuana, even had to misspell it because that is the way our state spelled it in the old laws. The opposition tried to bring that up as an issue...once...by a judge...he probably didn't want to bring it up again.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 14, 2008)

Earl said:


> Everyone needs to fill out this form,
> and fire it off to your congressman.
> 
> Contact congress to support the decrim marijuana House Bill 5843
> ...


I think we have to keep the pressure on. Obama's transtion team is finding out that a lot more people care about this than they may have thought before, several of the organizations have received responses that say he is going to stop the DEA from arresting Patients, that is as far as they have gone to this point. 
And I caution everyone, do not let the "Legal Sale" of Marijuana be decided at the Federal Level, do it at State Level. VV


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## Earl (Nov 14, 2008)

I saw Obama giving a speech a few years ago, 
he was getting applause from every statement he made, 
until he mentioned he wanted to change the drug laws, silence..................
he never spoke about it again, 
but you know he wants to, 
if he can just get some applause.

We gotta keep the pressure on, NOW !

Every email they get, increases our shout for justice.

.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 14, 2008)

now i have a political thread.lol VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 16, 2008)

... I tell ya its a conspiracy, I did what I was supposed to do, I saved 6 widow cindys as possible mothers, cloned them, rooted the clones, and moved them into flowering, of course I took extra clones, to compensate for the 50% that would be male, 5 out of the 6 turned out to be goddamn females. I have 3 Grape Purple Cindys and 3 BigGurls, moved them into flowering 5 out of those 6 turn out to be goddamn females. These were planted in Rapid Rooters as you can see in this cut-away view of the only male in that group. And of course I have extra clones of those, you remember the little clones. I now have about 80 clones setting root for 50 spots, I tell ya its a conspiracy, they are trying to overgrow my room. Seems like they want me to spend all of my time with just the female plants....well someone.....could take a clone or so I suppose....maybe that would piss them off and they would try harder...... 
Well...the wild wood flower grew wild on the farm, we never knowed what it was called, some said it was a flower, some said it was a weed, me, I didn't give it much thought. One day I was sitting there talking and reached out for a weed to chew on, thing got blurry and things got fuzzy, and then everything was gone. My brother looked over and said, man whats wrong with your eyes. I said I don't know, I was chewin on a weed, he said let me give it a try. Spent the rest of that day and half that night tryin to find my brother Bill....and the blues are decent smoke. The widow/cindys look awesome, and the juicy fruit is still in the pipeline, soon. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 16, 2008)

And that's a bad thing how???

How stoned are you? 

So, with a 12 plant limit, and being able to grow for 5 patients, i count 60 plants... that's a lot!


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## Earl (Nov 16, 2008)

I would love a few of those clones.

I'll stick them in my new contraption.

I have some cuttings in it,
but they haven't rooted yet.

If you got rooted clones,
I'll stick some in this:






I got 14 feet to grow up.






I'm saving this WW male for you.





He is still very young, and not showing many balls yet.
.


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 16, 2008)

Damn Earl... 

Does Dirtbag Brian work at a glass studio, I was looking on eBay for glass marbles, and ShortBus Glass popped up, pretty decent collection.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 16, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> And that's a bad thing how???
> 
> How stoned are you?
> 
> So, with a 12 plant limit, and being able to grow for 5 patients, i count 60 plants... that's a lot!


.....What can I say, its decent smoke. Now you see why I say I may have to consider changing to your method instead of the way I am doing it now. The way I read it, and the way I talk about it is that mothers and clones are the incidental's and should not count. Instead of total yield I would have to be concerned about plant counts. I had thrown those out the window when I read Al B's thread. 4x23 + clones and mothers is already over that 99 plant count, if I got busted I would be goin down. The way I figure a good cloning operation should be able to supply a couple of other grow, turn 15 plants every two weeks. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 17, 2008)

I think DirtBag found that site as well and did order from them, just not a glass man myself. I will have some, the problem is what they are in now. 3" rockwool blocks or Rapid rooters move up to 3" pots with coco-coir. Not sure how those would go in your system since you built it after I visited. What size net pots do you have? VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 17, 2008)

Not a glass man? (picturing you smoking out of metal pipe)

You must smoke a lot of joint like me 

Marijuana Growing - MrHowardMarks's Album: Glass

^My glass^

You can knock off a bunch of the coco if the pots are too small, I rooted a bunch of clones, put them in solo cups, and gave them to a guy who does hydro, and that's what he did.


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## HazyEyes (Nov 17, 2008)

Well VV after that nice talk, i think it was time to make a appearance once again on your thread haha, of course i have a lot of reading up to do but that shall come in due time sir.

but if Mr D Bag is out there in internet land tell him to get on here i would love to talk to him again too.

O and Mr, Howard Mark's iv heard somethings about you too sir of course, and only good must i say. But if that is the orignal i will be so dumb founded, that a younger dumbfuck ( as my father used to put it) , lol like myself is even in the same forum as the man. i tip my hat to you, and of course if your not, it is a pleasure to meet you too sir.
but for now am off ill be checking in regularly again.

but last thing GO BUCKEYES ... you know we are winning again this year right VV, do you realy think you stand a chance against Pryer, and the Mr. Chris Wells , and who can ever forget about that senior John Laurinaitis back for his last year.??? any comments lol plz add in the following area *___________________________*


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 17, 2008)

The information on where tlb went can be found by following picasso's thread, most of the krew went as well, I miss him too.

Almost exclusively, I smoke a lot on the road, pipes are not as easy to hide. Too much of a loner for bongs, blunts are just big joints, DirtBags cookies were mellow!! I rolled twenty joints, put them all in a cigarette pack carefully and took them with me on the plane to Floriduh, never a question. 

It will be an interesting Basketball season in the big 10. lol VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 17, 2008)

Hey V, you might be interested in the filters I use for my joints, they are just loose filters, like on cigs... You roll them into one end. If you smoke a lot of joints, it filters out enough tar to make a difference.

The main point is the filters make the joint look like an ordinary cigarette, twice a cop looked right at a pack of joints, and didn't realize they were joints.

They're made by Zen, same company that makes Elements papers... They're called Zen Filter Tips.

-Thanks, and no, I'm not _really_ Howard Marks...


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 19, 2008)

I am going to be putting those little clones in coco-coir in coco-coir pots, the roots will be growing thru the pots by next Friday, the 28th. These have taken longer than normal to put roots thru, I usually have them all in the 3" pots by now, only 4 of these as of this morning. The larger clones are doing fine, 16 of those have been transplanted. Three of the widow cindy mothers are getting too tall and may have to be retired after the next cut, they are blocking the other mothers. 
I am going to cut back to a 18/6 light schedule to see how much of a difference it makes. These last two cuts the mothers are recovering in a little over a week, branches are kinda thin though, and i don't need them in a week. Any thoughts?? VV


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## Earl (Nov 19, 2008)

What is your room temperature ?

Did it drop and that is why your cuts are taking longer ?
.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 19, 2008)

Earl said:


> What is your room temperature ?
> 
> Did it drop and that is why your cuts are taking longer ?
> .


That is possible, the temps are down a little at night. I put a heat mat under one tray of them, doesn't seem to have made a difference yet. And they still are growing so I'm not real worried. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 20, 2008)

Mine are taking unusually long to root... Temps are a bit low, like 68F. They all look great and are rooting strong, but like 10 days so far i think.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 20, 2008)

22 of these have rooted, it didn't take this long with the last batch and its never taken more than a week in the Rapid Rooters before. Klemtown helped me move the dryer out to the garage and bring the heater in the workshop. Took a few clones for his op, just getting started, he has an example of the little clones and the bigger ones so he will get the experience with both. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2008)

Just a quick update. Table 1 has clones taken on 10/17 moved to flowering on 11/1. Table 2 is a mixture based on the height of the plants. It also has our Grape Purple Cindy and Big Gurl Plants, and a few juicy fruits, a couple of blue berry, a little variety. lol Table 3 clones from 9/29 moved to flowering 10/15. Table 4 is the widow CIndys, across the front is where the mothers that are too tall and will be retired after the next batch of clones, they rest were all seeds started 8/22 moved to flowering around 11/1 to I think, I'll have to go back and check. 
THE NExt two are the clones we took 11/8, and the mothers. Here is a shot of a WIdowCIndy and a Northern Berry, about 7 weeks flowering. VV


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## Earl (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm smoking my widow cindy already, are you ?

The one I chopped took 126 days from seed to weed.

I've got a couple I haven't chopped yet.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2008)

Earl said:


> > I'm smoking my widow cindy already, are you ?
> 
> 
> Uhh, no, I just posted that.
> ...


Well... are they ready, mine won't be smokable for about 2 weeks imo. Maybe I should try a close up bud shot, idk. VV


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## SVINIAR (Nov 21, 2008)

Earl said:


> The one I chopped took 126 days from seed to weed.


hmmm.. Sounds like the WCs are gonna work good for me then..  
Not to jack the post, But I'm building the Aero/NFT system now that Stinkbud has going on. 

*Earl*, do you think the WCs will finish up nicely with a 9 week flowering time*? *

Great progress also VV.. been folowing the journey since the begining of the thread.. +rep for ya.


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## Earl (Nov 21, 2008)

Mines not cured, but it's smokable.

.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2008)

I hate it when my earbud battery goes dead. VV


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## Earl (Nov 23, 2008)

I went ahead and put the NB into a hempy bucket.
It was easy the way you said to do it. No problems mon.





Saving you the square pot.

Now we have another strain to compare the nutes against.

I'll be feeding this Northern Berry a diet of Advanced Nutes 
and then you can come back down and smoke some 
and we'll be able to compare against your ionic nutes.

.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 24, 2008)

yep, just have to plan for it. it will do fine it that bucket, may have to put the water a little closer to the stem for a watering or two, after that you should be set. Put 10 more of the little clones into those coco pots and one more big clones, cutting again today or tomorrow, I am leaning towards tomorrow. On the way home I remembered you haven't seen my van. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 27, 2008)

I hope your year has been as good as mine. Yesterday I got another new toy, probably see about putting it in, in the next few weeks. Harvested some Juicy Fruit, its drying now, we will probably smoke some of it before the end of the month. The widow/cindys will start coming down tomorrow along with 20 or so other assorted varieties. Of course this will create a problem. Which one do you smoke today??
I know, I know, but someone has to make these tough decisions, so for today its gonna be skunkberrynorthernberryhempwarp. If I like it I might do it again tomorrow. 
Happy Thanksgiving. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 27, 2008)

So, what's your new toy?


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 27, 2008)

I picked up a co2 gen, natural gas, 13 cuft/hr with 2 more burners. 1/2 price sale from Craigs list. It does have to sit for a while. I some other things I will have to do before I put that in use. I will have to look at the controls I will need to us it properly. Hooking the gas line will be easy, when I installed the gas line for my heater, I wasn't sure which side of the room I would want to put it on so I installed lines on both sides of the room. Looks like a flared fitting and smaller copper line is about all I need. The flexible gas line that is available at the big box stores now makes working the gas lines very convenient, you can cut that line with a razor knife. VV


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## Earl (Nov 28, 2008)

Co2 gen ought to help keep your shed warm.

Might not work too well in the summer, 
so you better get to using it.

The pros I know,
recommend bottled Co2 
to save on the heat.


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 28, 2008)

Yeah, if you're having heat issues at all, I don't recommend a generator... But for winter time, it works.

I'm going to just buy a replacement burner for a propane grill, and set it on low, I'll do it manually... With no meter, I can make a good estimate on how much to burn by how long the tank lasts and the size of the flames, using a generator for a few winters, i think I can make a pretty good guess.

What did you pay for it?

I'm on a budget, and I can make one for about 20 bucks.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 28, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Yeah, if you're having heat issues at all, I don't recommend a generator... But for winter time, it works.
> 
> I'm going to just buy a replacement burner for a propane grill, and set it on low, I'll do it manually... With no meter, I can make a good estimate on how much to burn by how long the tank lasts and the size of the flames, using a generator for a few winters, i think I can make a pretty good guess.
> 
> ...


I paid a little more than 20bucks for this one. I always look at what I am buying, and usually buy the first one of anything I think I can build. I learn things about what and why they did things in manufacture that I wouldn't be able to readily duplicate before making a decision to build my own. 
I'm not worried about the heat issue, as you mentioned and I have already decided I will have to do something different about air conditioning by next summer anyway, the one I bought doesn't have quite the capacity I need in order to introduce a co2 generator. It would do a nice job in the house, and that is why we made the decision to purchase it. It was the most we could afford at that time. We are all on some kind of a budget, our monthly nut is up there aways. I could have duplicated what you are talking about from spare parts I had. Natural gas installation will be a lot more convenient for me. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Nov 28, 2008)

I had a propane one, sold it to a friend who put in the different burner tips made for natural gas... He loves it, no tank refills.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 28, 2008)

I have a half pig on my camping trailer, pay $75.00 a year for it so I don't have to haul anything but the tanks for my grill. This one has two of the four burners in it, I'm just going to have to change the whole room to use it efficiently. I can put all of the flowering tables in a straight line, all I have to do is move all of the plumbing to the opposite side of the room and move and rehang all of the lights, probably have to change the venting for them as well. And of course change the curtain from north/south to east/west. I may just run it for a month without making a lot of changes and see what I can see. VV


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## HazyEyes (Dec 1, 2008)

Hello VV, a man i have a question for you did you every have s problem with your northenberrys?? b/c for some reason these lil bastereds are giving me a hard time,, all the other strains are running good it only the big northen cutting that are kicking my ass am not realy feeding them yet they only have had one watering and are due for another one tomarrow, but well ... all the northen berrys are kinda yellowing but not just the bottom its more like the whole plant ,at first i though maybe its needs more Nuts but then again they could not of used up all the nuts in the soil after a week. one of the NB cuttings is doing better then the rest but i think it maybe be falling in the same direction. ..Where they all from the same mother or Different?? hmm or maybe they are in shock but for some reason i cant beleave that. 

ill give u more info tomarrow but i have to get back to school work for now i may pop some pix up to show u.


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## Earl (Dec 1, 2008)

My NB is doing very well in the hempy bucket.

Hey Vic,
Did I give you some Stinky Widow Cindy beans?
If I did, you need to plant them, this shit is good,
makes me want to rip out what I got going and start over.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 1, 2008)

Yes you did, and no I am not going to rip it out and start over. Hazy you should be able to give those northern berry full nutes by now. For the first couple of watering you probably would put some water into the block, it takes a while for the roots to grow down into the soil. You could check and see if that is the problem by pulling apart the worst looking one to see. There should not have been any transplant shock, all you did was place it on soil and fill around it, unless the soil was real cold. VV


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## HazyEyes (Dec 1, 2008)

yea i also was leaning in that direction too this morning looking at them i gavw them a nice feeding just know so we will see in the next few days.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 2, 2008)

Earl said:


> My NB is doing very well in the hempy bucket.
> 
> Hey Vic,
> Did I give you some Stinky Widow Cindy beans?
> ...


Hey Earl, that Juicy Fruit........is Juicy, no one has stayed to finish a full joint yet, yield is still a little below what I would like. VV


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## Earl (Dec 3, 2008)

Where did you get the juicy fruit ?

I'm smoking 5 joints a day.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 4, 2008)

Earl said:


> Where did you get the juicy fruit ?
> 
> I'm smoking 5 joints a day.


I grew it. VV


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## Earl (Dec 4, 2008)

Let me rephrase that question you smartass.

Where did you get the seeds to grow juicy fruit ?
.


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## MrHowardMarks (Dec 4, 2008)

From a juicy fruit mother...


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 4, 2008)

CaliGurl sent me the seeds, she now has four of your varieties, WC,SW,BG and..???
There are a few of them scattered in the next few harvest. I have a couple I am still working with for mothers. I knew you would appreciate it. And it is now the Michigan Medical Marihuana Law. The first widow/cindys are being harvested today. VV


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## Earl (Dec 4, 2008)

The humidity in my basement is 35-40%

The stuff dries pretty quick in there,
but it's a long way from cured.

I chopped most of the hempy buckets last night.

I'm gonna move three hempy's in with the space shuttle,
once I start the bloom cycle.

The shuttle is coming up on 11 nodes this morning,
so the days will be getting short soon.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 4, 2008)

this juicy fruit is barely dry let alone cured, and that is my winter problem. When I have to heat the room I do not have room for my bud dryer. I will have to put the first one I made back into use for a couple of weeks. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 5, 2008)

is a Widow Cindy cola, and a few of the plants. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 7, 2008)

These are supposed to be better pictures, haven't tried these high resolution things before. On my computer I can see a little frost on them, hope you can too. VV


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## Earl (Dec 7, 2008)

My NB clone is doing great in the hempy bucket,
she should make me a good mama,
thanks again Vic.
My PCs are kickin' in the tube.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 7, 2008)

with the height you have you could make that a monster, and you see what they look like in my short setup.lol VV


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## Earl (Dec 7, 2008)

Is the NB a big plant like the pC ?

I am going to grow this NB out as a mother plant for a few months 
and then take some big clones off of her for a shuttle launch.

I'm gonna finish the current Space Shuttle grow,
and then put them in it.

I may have to wait until my chiller is available,
If I am going to do a summer launch.

I would love to get another chiller,
but i don't know how the economy is going to be in a few months.

I still need more lights also.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 7, 2008)

The first ones I had in where 4' + no extra vegging time. the mothers I have now are that tall, I basically top them and then go around getting a few more to keep them short. It would not suprize me to see that one get 6' in a few months. Depends on how many growing tips you cut. VV


----------



## Earl (Dec 8, 2008)

Groovy,
I would love to have a lb. of NB
.


----------



## Earl (Dec 9, 2008)

Is that white widow male making any balls yet ?


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 9, 2008)

Not quite, next couple days I expect. VV


----------



## CaliGurl (Dec 10, 2008)

*Hey VV wanted to stop by, nice GJ turned out well... and thanks again for sharing the love+rep ( Oh and U 2 Earl!) *


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 12, 2008)

CaliGurl said:


> *Hey VV wanted to stop by, nice GJ turned out well... and thanks again for sharing the love+rep ( Oh and U 2 Earl!) *


I just got a text message yesterday thanking me for something you did.  
This picture is for folks wondering why you grow mothers and take clones from them instead of just taking clones from plants that you are going to send on. The ones on the right were done the second way, small clones taken on 11/8, the ones on the left are clones taken from mothers on 11/30, they just got transplanted today. 
The big clones are ready to flower, they are sexually mature because they were taken from plants that had been vegging for about 2 to 3 months. The little clones will spend at least 2 to 4 weeks more in vegging depending on thier development. 11/8 to 12/20 or 11/30 to 12/14, get the picture. VV


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Dec 12, 2008)

I also find that mother plants have better faster clones.

I think it has something to do with rapid growth and built up nutrients in the youngsters.

I also find giving my mothers plain water for a week before cloning helps out a lot... The more nutrient build up in the plant the less it has to feed off of and it will shoot roots.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 12, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> I also find that mother plants have better faster clones.
> 
> I think it has something to do with rapid growth and built up nutrients in the youngsters.
> 
> I also find giving my mothers plain water for a week before cloning helps out a lot... The more nutrient build up in the plant the less it has to feed off of and it will shoot roots.


 the information I have read says that depleting the nitrogen content, which inhibits root growth, is what helps. I haven't figured out a way to just lower the nitrogen content. These set roots thru 3" rock wool blocks in ten days, thats adequate for my operation. VV


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Dec 12, 2008)

Sounds like it works great whatever you're doing, I've also heard a light feeding of bloom nutes before cutting will help, but I just try to rinse built up nitrogen from them with a good flush of plain water...


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 12, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Sounds like it works great whatever you're doing, I've also heard a light feeding of bloom nutes before cutting will help, but I just try to rinse built up nitrogen from them with a good flush of plain water...


..... which makes sense if your taking clones every month or two instead of every two weeks. VV


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Dec 12, 2008)

Check and mate... Haha  yeah, I go about a month of feeding, the cut them back for the clones...


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 12, 2008)

Glad to see you know the game too. I have recently been invited to play. I haven't had a live game in a few years. VV


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Dec 12, 2008)

Sure I like to play, but I hardly ever get worthy competition. 

Computer AI doesn't count, it's freaking unbeatable on hard, it overcalculates every move and never sacrifices. I'm a fairly violent player... Or so I've been told 

I like classic games and card games, *not poker* or gambling..._ euchre, spades, and hearts_

All my friends who know how to play chess suck at it, seriously, I give them pawns on purpose to keep the game rolling, sometimes I'll let em put me in check a few times, but only after I've cut down their power pieces... Shit, I'll shut up, I sound like a stoned member of the chess club. Really I'm not that good. 

Earl do you play?

Oh, and *nice plants*!! 

I'm stoned and tired as hell. :z


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 13, 2008)

I played a guy once that beat me about 20 games in less than an hour. Then I found out he used to play his three roommates at once, he in a room by himself and all three of them with thier boards in front of them in another room. They would call out thier moves and he would call out his. He had a 30 sec time limit. I didn't feel so bad after that. 
At the level I have chosen on my program the computer will make different moves from time to time. I am learning a little. 
Anyway, I will be gone all day today, up to my moms for our family Christmas, see you all tomorrow. VV


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Dec 13, 2008)

Yeah, i'm definately not that good, I only plan like 3-4 moves ahead of time.

Have fun at the raging keg party


----------



## DIRTBAG (Dec 13, 2008)

Dont get comfortable "big toe"...!

Were just getting started...!

Db.~tlb!


----------



## ugmjfarmer (Dec 13, 2008)

I'm humbled to say after reading through this entire thread that you are some evil genius. I can't believe that this kind of knowledge exists... well... this close to home. Mad Mad props for your work here. You have a thread subscriber from me.

Hello from Lansing my man.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 14, 2008)

DIRTBAG said:


> Dont get comfortable "big toe"...!
> 
> Were just getting started...!
> 
> Db.~tlb!


The inter-action between the two forums?? Panheads post of the new electric installation needs to be here as well?? I had never considered another screen name until now. VV
Merry Christmas, see you in April??


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 14, 2008)

ugmjfarmer said:


> I'm humbled to say after reading through this entire thread that you are some evil genius. I can't believe that this kind of knowledge exists... well... this close to home. Mad Mad props for your work here. You have a thread subscriber from me.
> 
> Hello from Lansing my man.


Thanx for the kind words, there are lots of folks here that know more about growing then I ever will. The next time I take clones I will be using Old in the Ways method, he addressed all of the problems I had with the AeroCloners and you could transplant into any medium or system you wanted to after using his methods, the rest of is op ain't too shabby either. 
My friend DirtBag does this in a wheelchair. Here is a link to one of his two journals, be sure and have lots of tissue, this is pureBudPorn. 
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/64550-dirtbags-green-thumb-wait-thats.html
MrHowardMarks has his first journal rocking along, he is just starting flowering and I may switch to his methods because of plant counts for the MichiganMedicalMarihuana Law, as a caregiver for 5 patients, you would only be allowed 60 plants, this may have to be the opposite of a true sog Grow, I will use all of the information those journals contain to help me decide. 
And those are just some of the ones that I am subscibed too. VV


----------



## DIRTBAG (Dec 14, 2008)

Good morn. Sir... So how have things been...?
Man i got alot of surfing to do, and catch up.
Did a bit, some nice eye candy daddy... Will be doing some rereading.

Will also be starting a new journal, and show all...!
More than ever seen in the past, have thought of a few full
proof methods, and some changes in the op's have been made here...!

This to cum later...!

Man i miss'ed ya big V'

db.~tlb!


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 14, 2008)

DIRTBAG said:


> Good morn. Sir... So how have things been...?
> Man i got alot of surfing to do, and catch up.
> Did a bit, some nice eye candy daddy... Will be doing some rereading.
> 
> ...


NOW I have to go read the ones in the other forum, I did see you had some plants in smaller pots, are you getting similar results? How would you run yours with a 12 plant per patient plant count, if clones were not an issue. VV


----------



## DIRTBAG (Dec 15, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> NOW I have to go read the ones in the other forum, I did see you had some plants in smaller pots, are you getting similar results? How would you run yours with a 12 plant per patient plant count, if clones were not an issue. VV


THAT IS A REALLY GOOD PLANT COUNT...!!!
I WOULD STILL DO THE VERT' BUT WOULD GO STADIUM AND
RACK THAT ROOM OUT..!

IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR ME TO RUN, THAN THE TREE'S  AND
THEN WITH THE CLONES _NOT COUNTING_, PERPETUAL WOULD
BE A BREEZE...!  


I DID NOTICE THE LINK ABOVE TO THE OLD WORK...
TINY PIC HAS TORCHED THAT ACCT. AND DELETED MOST OF TO ALL
THE PIC'S...!

WHEN THE NEW RUN HERE _CUMS_ OUT I WILL HIT YA UP IF YOU
WOULD LIKE...?


DB.~TLB!

HUGS AND DRUGS


TELL ALL I SAID HIGH'....


WHERE BE EARL'...???


----------



## Earl (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm here DB

Check out my grow.

In the white bucket is my NorthernBerrry clone from Vic.
It is very happy here with me and lots of light.





.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 16, 2008)

Check out klemtown's journal, he has a couple of the Northernberry's too, his last ones are about that same age. Have you tried the Juicy Fruit DirtBag. And I am going to have to get you a taste of that one Earl, the consensus is it is the best of all the ones I have had, if I can get a decent yield off of them we willl have to add that one to the rotation. uhhh...except for the hag and the apple juice that is, that according to Postie and MasterLikes420, not just me. VV


----------



## Earl (Dec 16, 2008)

I like that apple.
Oh yow..

Got any of those beans or cuts?
.


----------



## Earl (Dec 16, 2008)

what is in the picture ?
Juicy fruit ?
.


----------



## DIRTBAG (Dec 16, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Check out klemtown's journal, he has a couple of the Northernberry's too, his last ones are about that same age. Have you tried the Juicy Fruit DirtBag. And I am going to have to get you a taste of that one Earl, the consensus is it is the best of all the ones I have had, if I can get a decent yield off of them we willl have to add that one to the rotation. uhhh...except for the hag and the apple juice that is, that according to Postie and MasterLikes420, not just me. VV


I COULD NOT EVEN TELL YA! HOW MANY PPL. NOW ARE FEEDING THERE
PLANTS THE APPLE JUICE, OTHIER JUICES ARE IN THE WORKS LIKE GRAPE ON BLUE BERRY... 
GOING NOW IN LOCAL OP'S...! ALSO CUTS GIVEN OF
THE HAG TO THE LOCAL AND OTHIERS, HAVE LOST TRACK OF ALL THE MIRROR GROWS GOING, 
ALL HAVE CLOSETS FULL OF MED'S, AND HAVE
PASSED ON WHAT THEY WERE TAUGHT TO OTHIERS NOW, SO MANY
I CANT EVEN COUNT... THE "TLB" DRIVES ITSELF NOW...!



Earl said:


> I like that apple.
> Oh yow..
> 
> Got any of those beans or cuts?
> .


 
  CUTS ARE ALWAYS AVB. 
HAVE NOT TRIED THE HAND AT BREEDING YET...!
BUT HAVE QUIT A FEW THAT WOULD LOVE TO SEE DB' BREED
AND START WITH THE MONSTER HAG'...

HAVE LEARNED SHE IS FULL BLOODED INDI' NORTHERN LIGHTS...!
HAVE ALOT OF THOSE BOXES' OUT NOW VV' HEHEHEHEHEHE!
WELL OVER 50 COAST TO COAST...!

@EARL, WENT OVER AND HIT YOUR JOURNALS LOOKING SO GOOD
AS USUAL..>! 

HAVE BEEN DOING A BIT OF THE BEAN COLECTING HERE, AM
GETTING QUIT THE SELECTION GOING...!

WILL BE MAKING A LIST TO SHARE HERE IN A BIT...!


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 16, 2008)

Of course you have this all on video like I suggested ?? VV


----------



## Earl (Dec 16, 2008)

I have added many kinds of juice at the end of a grow.

I swear Dutch Master Part "A" is just grape juice.

What kind of apple juice do you add ?

Concentrate or fresh Oregon apples?
.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 16, 2008)

he grinds it fresh, nothing but the best.VV


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Dec 16, 2008)

I used apple juice concentrate as a flush, didn't notice any difference, though it was a pretty big waste mixing up 50 gallons of apple juice and rinsing my soil with it... All the starving children  


Plus it was a pain in the ass rinsing all that sugar and applejuice out of the soil. Could attract a shitload of flies/pests.


Just uploaded some pics to my journal yesterday, I should be blooming within a week... Thank god, I don't think I could wait any longer, 1 and a half months of seedling and cloneing isn't much fun, but it's about to really pay the fuck off!


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 16, 2008)

I have smoked his apple juice, it is flame. It doesn't need to be flushed out the way he uses it. VV


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Dec 16, 2008)

Yeah, some really old school grower suggested it to me, his shit is bomb, and he only used bone/blood meal, earthworm castings, and some guanos... Really old school, grows in bathtubs for beds under 1000s.

All of the soil space i suppose... 

His outdoor weed is incredible, that's basically where his method came from, he figured why change it for indoor growing.


----------



## DIRTBAG (Dec 17, 2008)

The apple juice i use is the wally marts, 100% no suger added.
The dose to date is anywhere from 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup per gallon
on top of the nutes given...

It has worked so well on this end, in trials that every single girl
gets it now in her diet. The ppl. that have tried it, do see a diff'
in quilty, wieght and taste.

Along with those tests, some are running full apple tree mulch and
also have there plants on the apple j.

The grape juice being used is the same version as the apple from 
wally's, just grape...!


@ VV, i wish i had it all on tape, its all in the calanders and now all
over the net, and in the pc'...!

once i can get some time to get the new journal going we gunna play
big dog...! the girls i just trans'ed to blm. are at the six foot mark,
and with the grow end of the beg. of bloom should top that mark easy..>!

the biggest to date cumming outa the room is the ak'47, counting
the tub she' in, the room has eight foot cieling, this bitch was half a foot off that cieling...! pulled five zips off her..!

well blah blah blah,,,, getting caught up on this end... christmas right 
around the corner...!

hope all is well green and happy for all...!

hugs and drugs...

DB.~TLB!  


sorry for the pic BT', high jack still ok....??? OG' TLB' kiss-ass


----------



## mattso101 (Dec 17, 2008)

Has anyone tried some organic 100% pure Apple Cider not from concentrate. I think I will give it a shot. I have used Sucanat. An its great aswell (raw Organic sugar)


----------



## DIRTBAG (Dec 19, 2008)

HERE YA GO VV' GET YA STARTED...! 

THREW IN SOME CANDY FOR YA...! SLUT... 

ENJOY, LET ME KNOW WHAT YA! THINK...


DB.~TLB!

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/143031-pornfolio.html


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 21, 2008)

DIRTBAG said:


> HERE YA GO VV' GET YA STARTED...!
> 
> THREW IN SOME CANDY FOR YA...! SLUT...
> 
> ...


I will read it all, I already saw parts of it remember? You know you can post anything you want to here. I need to have you register at our website, WWW.MichiganMedicalMarijuana.com . They are having price discussions, no we are not allowed to sell it, we are able to recoop costs and reasonable compensation. Seems everyone wants to be extreme, its either $20.00 per oz, or $600.00. I do not have any experience with Medical MJ. Run some numbers if you have time for me, using the twelve plant/ patient starting with clones, number of weeks etc, that you would use to get maximum, and an approximation of what that is. I suspect it will turn out to be your style etc. of op, bigger plants fewer of them, four week rotation instead of two week. Or maybe a three week rotation?
I need to re-read your journals. And probably change my entire op, imagine, me making a change. lmao When I come out here in the morning, any time after 4:00 am, this is what I have to work with, a space with 3 tables, one t-5 light, one led light and one hid hps light. Mother plants, clones and slackers. I like the results I am getting from the smaller clones under the led, They were cut on 11/8 though, may have been a low temp that held them back, looking nice and green now. 
Next clones I am going to follow Old in the way (sp) cloning method. He has made a simple change, first he puts the Rapid Rooter Upside down, puts the clone in it, when he has roots out the bottom he puts them in an aero cloner held in place with a neoprene collar so the roots can grow and still have an anchor when you transplant, so you could put those into any of the medium, from soil to leave it aero.
From the experience I had with the aero cloners I made this all makes perfect sense to me. When I used the Rapid Rooters, the roots were sticking thru the little net pots in four or five days, the RR are funnels shaped. Since I was going to transplant them to coco-coir they didn't get enough root before I would have to transplant them. With the funnel turned upside down the roots will not stick out as quickly. When i used the neoprene collars alone, I wasn't comfortable not having any anchor point. Take a look at the roots he shows using this method, I like what he is showing. 
In addition he takes smaller clones, vegges them for a week longer, twelve week rotation, harvest every three weeks I think. 
Well ... lights are on on the other side, have to go take a look. VV


----------



## DIRTBAG (Dec 23, 2008)

Im logged and waiting for approval...!

Db.~tlb!


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanx, they forum is set up poorly imo. You have to click on your screen name and _track _to get a list of where you have been. When your reply it shows up as the next post and moves any comments made after your down, its what we have, so...VV


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## Kruzty (Dec 23, 2008)

Yep has some clitches here and there but she's up and runnin.I sent a note to one of the techs about the reply problem so hopefully we can get that fixed.Its a pain in the ass haveing to read thru them all over and over.Vic not sure if it shows new posts on your side like mine due to me being a mod but ya can hit the new post button and she'll jump down to whats been added.But,,,then sometime i'm stuck in the middle and have to scroll thru checkin the new posts.we'll get-r-done.
Thanks for your help,it's people like you guys that will help get this thing growing,oh I mean going .


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## MrHowardMarks (Dec 23, 2008)

So that 12 plant thing is all good, no medical cards and what not? Or are you just jumpping the gun a bit?

Are you planning on fitting within the restrictions?


----------



## Kratose (Dec 23, 2008)

Damn Vic!

I am so impressed and I am only on page 8. I can only hope to learn as much as you have. I will admit, you seem much more experienced than I have. I will keep reading on, But I just had to stop and say WOW! Great job man. You seem to be getting it down to a science!

Awesome Job, 

All I want for Christmas from you is a zip! HaHa!

Happy Holidays Vic, and Happier Growing!


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 23, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> So that 12 plant thing is all good, no medical cards and what not? Or are you just jumpping the gun a bit?
> 
> Are you planning on fitting within the restrictions?


There will be Medical Cards issued, by Law within in 10 days of the deadline for the Michigan Department of Community Health to have the administrative rules in place.
We have group, Michigan Medical Marijuna Association, that is a 501c whatever corp, not for profit that we have set up to try and help patients and caregivers get the infromation they need to stay out of trouble. 
The Law took effect on Dec. 4th, now 120 days, app April4th system in place and processing applications, ten days issued. 
If some one has a Doctors Recommendation the would probably win an Affirmative defense court case, it would cost a bundle and is so unneccessary. 
I haven't decided yet, some folks seem to think the cost of growing should be around $20,00 per oz. And everyone should be lining up to be a caregiver. Many of the Adminisrative rules they have proposed are attempts to write the Law over and we are not going to allow that. 
By the way, Medical Marijuan may soon be passed in Ohio, it's out of Committee. And in New Jersey as well, thier governor has already siad he would sign it, 6 plants, 1 oz, in NJ, not sure what the Ohio legislation says. VV


----------



## Earl (Dec 23, 2008)

I think $20 / ounce is crazy,
but I will take all you can grow for that price.

My ovehead is nearer $50 and probly more.

There are a lot of cost 
your are not factoring in 
if you figure $20 
is your production cost.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 23, 2008)

At least. lol VV


----------



## Kratose (Dec 23, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> There will be Medical Cards issued, by Law within in 10 days of the deadline for the Michigan Department of Community Health to have the administrative rules in place.
> We have group, Michigan Medical Marijuna Association, that is a 501c whatever corp, not for profit that we have set up to try and help patients and caregivers get the infromation they need to stay out of trouble.
> The Law took effect on Dec. 4th, now 120 days, app April4th system in place and processing applications, ten days issued.
> If some one has a Doctors Recommendation the would probably win an Affirmative defense court case, it would cost a bundle and is so unneccessary.
> ...


Hey Vic,

Mass also decriminalized it. You can have up to a ounce on you. If a cop wants to be a dick, he can take it away and fine you 100.00 but thats it now. They use to get you good for having bud on you here. They did not say anything about growing plants, But I would bet they would say, 2 plants max, or no more than 1 once on harvest. 

If your under 18 though, and get caught, you get it taken away, fined 100 bucks, and have to go to some classes. A lot better than having a record though.

I really hope it goes legal for medicinal use. All you can use here is that Merional Crap. But it would be really nice for a system like Cali has. 

I need it for pain, and also to calm my stomach. I was never able to eat breakfast...Just could not hold it down. 

But, I see now, My local news stations are advocating it. They have a commercial...It shows a few things...Like Alchol, and says, harmful, Then it shows the Marijuana leaf, and says, Not Harmful, And goes on to talk about its medicinal uses, and how it could benefit medical patients if it were legal. So this is the closest we ever seen it get here. Especially since it actually got "decriminalized"

I honestly think, within 5-10 years it will be legal in the US, Even if its only Medical wise. But we have come very far. 

I am still reading through your journal, On about page 20 or so. Haha, This is a big one. 

Happy Growing


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 23, 2008)

Yes, I followed the initiative in Mass. All of the research they did was what I used when I wrote my Legalization debate material. I have this weird idea that there is a way to get legalization through, I stole it from slick willy, *ITS THE ECONOMY .* If you legalize, regulate and tax Marijuna by writing the initative properly and figuring out how to sell that proposal, it might be legalized in my life time. In my opinion this must be done at the State Level.
The way you sell it is the same way 'they' sold us the Lottery and Casino Gambling, to solve the budget problems. In my model, I used a minimum price of $45.00/ quarter oz + the 6% sales tax, works out to a minumum $180.00 per oz. with $45.00 of that going directly to the State. No maximum, the sintax is still the same, sales tax would apply. 
You have some really whinny ass politicians out there. VV


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Dec 24, 2008)

Pineapple express;

"I feel like a pad of butter on top of a pile of flapjacks.... Yeeeaaaahhhh."


"If marijuana isn't completely legal in five years... I have no hope for humanity."


I hope it is completely legalized...


----------



## Kratose (Dec 24, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Yes, I followed the initiative in Mass. All of the research they did was what I used when I wrote my Legalization debate material. I have this weird idea that there is a way to get legalization through, I stole it from slick willy, *ITS THE ECONOMY .* If you legalize, regulate and tax Marijuna by writing the initative properly and figuring out how to sell that proposal, it might be legalized in my life time. In my opinion this must be done at the State Level.
> The way you sell it is the same way 'they' sold us the Lottery and Casino Gambling, to solve the budget problems. In my model, I used a minimum price of $45.00/ quarter oz + the 6% sales tax, works out to a minumum $180.00 per oz. with $45.00 of that going directly to the State. No maximum, the sintax is still the same, sales tax would apply.
> You have some really whinny ass politicians out there. VV


Very well said! 

I also believe, in my lifetime I will see it legal. There is much benefit. Also, right now we could use it, Look at our economy. Our World. Marijuana growing would help the world. Instead of cutting down trees, you can use hemp for paper. And as you know, the benefits go on and on, Especially Medically Wise.

I was very happy to see It decriminalized In Ma. It was a great Victory!

And what you quoted for prices, would not be bad, and you know it would be better bud. Since they would grow the best strains with best genetics. Then some interesting new strains would come out. 

That would be great if it happend within 10 years


----------



## Kratose (Dec 25, 2008)

Merry Christmas Vic


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 25, 2008)

Kratose said:


> Merry Christmas Vic


Thanx, Kratose and Merry Christmas to all of RollItUp. VV


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## Earl (Dec 25, 2008)

Merry Christmas brothers,
and Prosperous New Year !


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Dec 26, 2008)

Have you figured out your cost per gram? Cause 20 an ounce doesn't sound like you'd make your money back... Unless it was an outdoor crop.

Prices will have to vary depending on quality... Sure 20 an ounce for some schwag is totally acceptable, but the good stuff will probably stay in the 200 dollar range. At least that's what I think...


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 26, 2008)

Oh, I agree, actually 1/2 higher than that. That is the problem. Folks have heard stories about how much you can produce or have done some outdoor growing. Some don' t feel it takes any special knowledge or care, just like we run into here. Many feel like you should be donating their time. Since they can grow thier own of they want I recommend they do that. I really don't want to get tied up in a pissin contest with anyone about price at this point, I want them to focus on the meeting with the MDCH on January 5th. They are proposing stupid shit, like if a patient you have dies, you are supposed to call LEO to come and get thier plants so they can be destroyed and a running inventory that you submit to them on a yearly basis. Yeah , right. VV


----------



## dmoose (Dec 26, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I really don't want to get tied up in a pissin contest with anyone about price at this point, I want them to focus on the meeting with the MDCH on January 5th. They are proposing stupid shit, like if a patient you have dies, you are supposed to call LEO to come and get thier plants so they can be destroyed and a running inventory that you submit to them on a yearly basis. Yeah , right. VV


Hope you dont mind me chimeing in here VV? Sarted reading the thread yesterday, by night I found myself skimming thru "your posts", but realized there was alot of good input by most (B.THC R+D, Earl, Caligurl... etc.) So I decided to start over this morning, and read thru it all! WOW! Alot of information! Thank You All for such good information and links! 

Now about your thread. It is my understanding that the MDCH was given the role of overseeing the New Michigan Law (issue cards, set fee's.....etc). The law allready states the basic rules, and limits,...etc. I did NOT see anything in the new law, that gives them the right to add further limitations, additional requirements, ....etc. Im not a violent person, but someone needs to slap them silly(er).


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 27, 2008)

You are correct, it does have to be done properly though. This is not something they asked for, we put it on them and that requires us to educate them not slap them silly. I believe the way to do this is by showing them what the world is really like regarding Marijuna and it' s use and to point out the abject failure or thier department to control the illegal use of Prescription Drugs, those thing kill people. 
To bgin with, all they seem to know is what Law Enforcement and Doctor's tell them and since they have only scheduled one public hearing, we would assume they think we are going to allow inspections, something clearly stated in the law, it does not allow. 
Law enforcement of course says it will make pot easier to get. THIS is a stupid statement, Patients are not going to run out of pot so someone that doesn't need it for pain can have some too. 
Doctor's of course are saying prescription drugs are better.
I want the first person that addresses them on Jan 5th, details of the meeting can be found on the MDCH website, to explain the first one. I want this expendable person to stand there and explain that Marijuana was a $35Billion Dollar crop in 2007, more than corn and soybeans combined and we are Importers, we still buy more from other countries. According to the Michigan State Department of Agriculture, 67,000# of it were grown in or state in 1997, if we can believe law enforcment it is probably 10 times that much right now. Law Enforcement knows that any high school kid can get Marijuana if they wanna. There are people growing Marijuana and smoking Marijuana illegally in this State right now, and nothing in this law is going to change any of that. All this law is going to do is allow Doctors to give recommendations to people for whom Marijuana is better Medicine then the deadly addictive drugs that Physicians write prescriptions for everyday. It should be unconsionable for an Agency that is supposed to be concerned about Community Health to think that people in pain should stay in pain. 
During this Campaign we saw Law Enforcement telling us Smoked Marijuana is bad Medicine, and doctors telling us this law would be a nightmare for law enforcement. Are you kidding me. Under this Law if you stop someone because you think they have Marijuana and they show you thier state issued card, a phone call confirms it, and his job is done, go enforce on someone else, how easy can we make it. leave the Marijuan Patients and thier caregivers the hell alone. They would have to be the ones to make it a nightmare with needless arrests and all of the associated Court time. What they are afraid of is losing thier overtime. 
I want to ask the Doctors if they own computers, a simple search would show that Dr. Donald Tashkin did a study on the affects of Smoked Marijuana regarding Cancer and if they really cared about the patients and not the drug companys wallets they would be jumping all over the MDCH to leave the patients and caregivers alone like the LAW says they should. 
And then we visit the MDCH website where they point out that the problem is the misuse of prescription drugs, just like the National Institue Of Drug Abuse says. 
We remind them of the testamony of Irv a few years ago, and the fact that the Democratic party in our State signed a declaration that they would support the Medical Marijuana Bill if it ever reached the house floor and the fact that this is the second Medical Marijuana Act. The first one was in 1979, read the letter written by Carl Levin to the Federal Government demanding that they 'get us our pot', and not any crap pot either. 
This initiative did not sneak thru, it was supported by more voters than Barack Obama, it passed in every county in the state, and what the law directs you to do is issue Identification cards, protect the identity of the patients and caregivers as the LAW says you are to do, And get the hell out of the way. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Dec 27, 2008)

That's good and all, but why issued cards?

That's the one thing I never understood about Medicinal laws... You don't need to get a patient card for Oxycontin, Morphine, Percocet, Vallium... Any perscriptions.

If you treat marijuana differently, more restrictive, the public reaction will be the same.

It's the pharmacudical industries who are at risk, if enough people realized they didn't need their anti anxiety pills, their pills for depression, pain... They will lose some of their billions, and billions of dollars.

Doctor's are whores to the pharmy industry, it's total bullshit, they listen to what the big companie tell them about their drugs and then the push them to their patients.

If only people knew they were taking a derivative of heroine to dull the pain, I think they'd change their minds.

But,

We are the first generation who wasn't fed propaganda on how bad marijuana is, most young people have tried it, and think there isn't anything wrong with it...

I was warned that marijuana was a "gateway drug" as a youngster... Sure I've tried almost every drug known to man, but I'm not a user of anything but weed, all of the other drugs can be classified, in my mind, as drugs... *Marijuana is just a plant*

I want complete legalization of this sacred plant, the opiate, amphetimine, and barbituate industries have to come to an end... The wrong drugs are illegal, what if your doctor told you to shoot heroine into your arm, instead of refilling your oxycontin perscription... You think then people might understand the giant crock of shit the pharmy industry has been feeding us... They have a cure for everything... Even if you can't get your dick hard.

But.

They can't cure cancer, or aids...

Pisses me right the fuck off.

I can take a pill to get a boner if I'm 90 years old, but if I get cancer or aids I'm fucked.

What do you think the technicians who created the boner pills got paid?

Why the fuck were they wasting their time, instead of curing the real problems and real disease?

Who the fuck can cure the common cold? Nobody???

Complete utter bullshit.

</rant>


----------



## VictorVIcious (Dec 27, 2008)

I agree with all that your saying, the problem isn't what we think. the problem is we try to reinvent the wheel. How did the get the Lottery passed and why aren't the citizens up, in arms about the Community Health Agency paying for ads and someone to answer the phone, to help you with your Gambling Addiction, why is that a Community Health Problem? In the meantime we want people that need assistance to pay for immunizations for thier children, shots that are required before the children can go to school? 
As far as I am concerned the time is right, the stage is set, I have the information I need to make the MDCH, Law Enforcement and the Doctors look as ignorant as the have chosen to be, I am willing to tell them they should be thanking all of the Medical Marijuana Growers for stopping the drain on our budget that getting medical grade marijuan represent, we import it. The biggest $$ leave the State, to Canada, Mexico, whatever, and Law Enforcement says that. The biggest drug problem we have is Prescription drugs according to the UN, NIDA, and the Michigan Department of Community Health, published at the same website as the one public hearing they have scheduled for public discussion of thier proposed 'administrative rules'. 
The House Fiscal Agency starts right out Stating thier position. In the first paragraph after thier opening statement they say they expect that state and local police costs for investigating complaints and collecting evidence of violation, that is not verbatim. Who wrote this law? We did, and your attitude is we are going to be breaking the Law we wrote???
In the next paragraph the say noeffect on court costs, I quarantee the did not read these proposed rules when they wrote that.


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## Earl (Jan 3, 2009)

VictorVIcious Nothrneberry in hempy bucket.
.


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## Eharmony420 (Jan 3, 2009)

hey Vic. just checking in. Happy new year!

I got some reading to catch up on. hehe.

I just germed 2 widow cindys. They are resting comfortably in rw cubes under a 10k t5. Gonna plant em in 4 in blocks till sex. They will join my northern lights in flower. 

Med grower so I am soloing at 5 in flower optimum. 

Good luck in michigan.


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 3, 2009)

Good to hear, send us a link to your journal and stop by to thank Earl, he is the breeder of all of those. VV


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## robert 14617 (Jan 3, 2009)

way to go .............................


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## DIRTBAG (Jan 4, 2009)

Hey big toe... "lets up the dose on the gerital" and run some stanky porn...updates...!

Have been running some costs for running, start up cumming next...


So hook me up daddy o'

run us an update...


Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 4, 2009)

I got this new camera for Christmas last year, Maybe I can figure how to up load them. Nope, it won't let me upload them. I'll have to get the old camera out tomorrow. VV


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## Earl (Jan 8, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> I got this new camera for Christmas last year, Maybe I can figure how to up load them. Nope, it won't let me upload them. I'll have to get the old camera out tomorrow. VV


Hey,
It's way past tomorrow.
.


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 8, 2009)

Hahaha... 

Chill out Earl, hit this... it's full of kief!


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 8, 2009)

http://www.wnem.com/video/18416780/index.html You are right it has been. Has anyone seen the news coming out of Michigan. That's me in 'the shirt'. And on top of that my router puked, my monitor puked. Go out buy a new router, it was defective. Finally got that done. I will post pictures tommorrow after lights on. VV


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## Earl (Jan 8, 2009)

Damn lawyers, Kill them all.

Does this look like change ?





notice Jimmy is kinda standing over by himself.
(the only one who wanted to legalize weed)
These cocksuckers are all the same. no change.

Keep the pressure on.
.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jan 9, 2009)

His statement was actually the one that got me to try it a second time, I respect the peanut farmer.


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## Earl (Jan 10, 2009)

Did the WW spooge yet ?

.


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## Eharmony420 (Jan 10, 2009)

Earl said:


> Damn lawyers, Kill them all.
> 
> Does this look like change ?
> 
> ...


our politicians all look desperaate for our approval. good sign. first i thought they look like kids ir something.


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes it did, I have it saved, had to get it out of the room. A few folks around the country have some of your varieties now. And one more has some on the way to him. President-elect Obama has always given them their due. I wonder if they believe he knows the difference between a strategy and a tactic yet. VV


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## Earl (Jan 11, 2009)

If you were able to cross back to stinky widow,
I would like some of those.
.


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 11, 2009)

I would have to start the stinky widow first. I have about 6 varieties now, what the hell one more won't hurt. Maybe next month. VV


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## Earl (Jan 11, 2009)

Well I think that male WW might be gone by then.
You can try.
Definitely start some stinky widow,
you are really gonna like it.


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 13, 2009)

Man, I have spread those seeds all the way to California.lol Works slick as can be. VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 14, 2009)

I should have a decent amount of beans myself after this harvest.

Still waiting for a reply on that used equipment... Lazy stoners.

Used bulbs of interest too?


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jan 14, 2009)

MrHowardMarks said:


> I should have a decent amount of beans myself after this harvest.
> 
> Still waiting for a reply on that used equipment... Lazy stoners.
> 
> Used bulbs of interest too?


Not to me, others may not feel the same and they are usually a good indication the fixture works. I am stoked, I secured a spot for meeting for The Greater Lansing Compassionate Care Club today and intend to hold our first meeting, kinda meet and greet, type next Wednesday night. Some of the details need to be worked out, having a location is one hurdle out of the way. By the way, the Governor of Ohio said he ould sign the Medical Marijuana bill if it gets to his desk, this is good news. That usually assures passage in a timely fashion. from what I heard 6 plants and an oz in possesion, it must be posted some where, maybe we should read it. lol VV


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## Earl (Jan 14, 2009)

Well, I hope they get it done in Ohio,
but I won't ever participate in their programs.

I'll just stay underground.

There will be paper work and fees...
and I don't play well with governments.

I'll come out to the government,
when it is legal like corn or soybeans.

Not that I'm afraid.
I just hate paperwork
and I won't do that for any reason.

You will only need a license
if you are transporting 
or you plan to sell to the public.

Maybe I'll hire a secretary someday.


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 14, 2009)

I'll need a secretary, a crew of workers and a distributer... _To help run my greenhouses._

That is when it's catagorized with corn and soybeans like it should be.


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## Earl (Jan 15, 2009)

> New Mexico Health Secretary Dr. Alfredo Vigil:
> &#8220;Now patients can get medical cannabis
> for their chronic health conditions
> in a way that is safe and legal under state law.&#8221;
> ...



Check this out.
Las Vegas NM
Las Vegas
be sure and get a cute secretary.


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 16, 2009)

I still love the Ocean, Thanx guys for keeping the thread going. I will be spending all of my extra time getting the group going here in Lansing. Danny Trevino, Owner of Hydroworl hydro shop is donating the space, its not 'furnished'. Lots of details, muist be handicap accessible unlike the meeting held by the MDCH. VV


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## DIRTBAG (Jan 18, 2009)

I did notice No head shot in the link... Thank god, its early here i have yet to medicate...!
Woooo~weeeee did i dodge a bullet...!!!

And earl, jimmy would be the only one of those "worth a shit" the man is a saint, house building
mad man and his wife too!

Deff' a big puff puff pass for jimmy...!

Omg' what a cluster phuck you all got going there vv'... If there is anything i can
do from this end let a brother know..!

You all should just copy what oregon is doing and leave it at that, its one of the best
systems going in the country, cali' has phucked theres all up trying to go commercial to big
to fast...!

The ore' is who everyone is looking at and watching anyway..>!


Db.~tlb!

Stop playing with it', so close to the tower and the computer problems i bet will clear
right up... Hehehehehehe!


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 18, 2009)

you already have, ***** and I took a ride. Only one thing came close to it, yours, and he had a kicker in there. He and I fit, its a win-win. He wins, patient win. MMMA is awesome. Greg Fransisco is 'the man' in this State, I will support him 100%. 
I am not complaining, I have never seen a better opportunity to advance a cause I believe in. MPP studied all of the rules from all of the State's and has been instrumental in many of them. During the campaign, they called our bill poorly written, the MDCH found out it is not poorly written, it has qauratees protections for Patients, caregivers and Doctors. I have heard that we are going to get everything we asked for, well big deal we just told them they have to follow the Law. Matt Abel, a friend and attorney asked if a caregiver could also be a patient, meaning a total of 72 plants and 15 zips, they have said yes. What a change of attitude. I want your best pictures of your room to display on the wall, e-mail it to me, put what you want on it. I'll get it up in 8 x 10's as soon as I have the money to do it. Please include your LOGO in each picture. VV


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## DIRTBAG (Jan 18, 2009)

Roger wilco'

got some good bloom room ones going in now for an update
and a few quick shots of the grow side and it will be in yur box...!


I can see yur excitement in yur type... It is so nice to see, you have wated and worked on
this a very long time v'

big hug for ya brother....

Dirtbag~tlb'! "over grow the world"


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## Kratose (Jan 21, 2009)

Hows everything going Vic? Been awhile since I stopped bye. Got any pics coming soon?


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 21, 2009)

Wow... That's possible the largest plant count for medicinal purposes in the country, isn't it?

I currently only have 45 mature plants... I can only imagine what could fit within those restraints... Something like 10-12 lights... But that would be 10-12 pounds... A lot more than the 15 ounce limit.

Catch 22.


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 21, 2009)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Wow... That's possible the largest plant count for medicinal purposes in the country, isn't it?
> 
> I currently only have 45 mature plants... I can only imagine what could fit within those restraints... Something like 10-12 lights... But that would be 10-12 pounds... A lot more than the 15 ounce limit.
> 
> Catch 22.


It says usable, and plants, If its hanging to dry its curing and not ready, I decide when it is, and if you stop back and check then I can assure you there will not more than 15 oz of dry useable Marijuna there. 
Its also no longer a plant, it doesn't have roots.
Not too bad for a poorly written law?? VV


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 22, 2009)

Ah... I see...

I guess that, "it's still curing, it's not ready." Could be considered not a living plant, and not "dry usable marijuana" I get it now... 


None of my weed will ever be "fully cured" and I'll never run into the 15 ounce limit...

That's my understanding...

Right?


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## Kratose (Jan 22, 2009)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Ah... I see...
> 
> I guess that, "it's still curing, it's not ready." Could be considered not a living plant, and not "dry usable marijuana" I get it now...
> 
> ...


He means, when he decides his plants are done and ready, and when is bud is cured and ready, and the final product, the medicine. At that time he will have no more then 15oz dry. And he basically is using a loop hole. Very smart Vic.

If I am wrong correct me.


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 23, 2009)

That's my story and I'm stickin too it. Drive that truck in here. Poorly written? VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 23, 2009)

BobSilvey a veteran that lives in Kentucky, should be posting his story in this forum soon, we need to spread his story across this country loud and proud, we should not let our veterans or any citizens be subjected to the kind of treatment he has endured. I am asking every rollitup member that visits another forum to post his story there, visit the website he posts and check in. We need to be able to talk numbers, we want these charges dropped. I think his first court date is Feb 8th, he will let you know for sure, mark it on your calenders, it's time to go on offense. VV


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## bob silvey (Jan 23, 2009)

I was referred her by VV and I see a good group of free thinkers. Please feel free to visit us at www.k4mm.org and we are a new site that is rying to change the mindset in the state of KY. I appreciate being able to be part of this and hope we can change the whole country. it is time for a new way of thinking and action.


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## bob silvey (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks VV, the Preliminary hearing is feb 20th, we are being offered 8 years consecutive on every count and between my wife and I it is 96 years! Won't have to worry about this world any longer if that happens huh? LOL. I have news for them. I don't make deals with narcs or cops. I will firght them to the wall! thanks brother.


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 23, 2009)

Right on Bob... I hope the best for you and your wife.

If you are in NKY, I know a really, really, good lawyer... I don't know if he has the time to do it, but he's in Cincinnati. He's currently the commissioner for a neighboring county, but he can make marijuana charges disappear. His name's drawing a blank... I don't have my rolodex...


But if you don't have a really good lawyer, I'd suggest getting one. 


I thought you could buy your way out of trouble in Ky, isn't that the meaning of "common wealth"


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 23, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/153812-living-ptsd.html VV


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## Earl (Jan 23, 2009)

Monday January 12, 2009. Federal Judge George H. Wu denies former medical marijuana provider Charles C. Lynchs request for a new trial even though new evidence has been submitted. A jury found Lynch guilty of five cannabis-only felonies on August 5, 2008 for violating federal drug laws even though Lynchs dispensary, Central Coast Compassionate Caregivers (CCCC), provided medical marijuana legal within California law. 

SLO County Sheriff, Pat Hedges, had his narcotics deputies investigate Lynch, his employees, his patients and his dispensary. For eleven months, Sheriffs deputies staked out the location taking photos, video, writing down license plate numbers, following patients and employees, and even pulling over employees after leaving the location. 

Sheriff Deputies also used paid criminal informants to go undercover to attempt to get evidence of Lynch breaking the law. One paid criminal informant was even allowed to keep his personal stash of marijuana after Sheriff Deputy Nicholas A. Fontecchio found 2 joints in his pocket before going undercover. 

Lynch relied on advice and began working with city and county officials in preparation of opening the only medical marijuana dispensary in SLO County. Lynch gave dispensary tours to local representatives to demonstrate the safety procedures he had created to assure medical marijuana was not diverted while providing safe access to qualified patients. 

If you had a chance to meet Charlie, you would see hes no criminal and he doesnt deserve to spend any time in behind bars. Hes going bankrupt and losing the home which he has had for years before starting his own medical marijuana dispensary. Many friends have abandoned him because they fear the government. 

His life has been ruined, not by medical marijuana, but by the laws that are meant to protect people. The laws are said to protect people from marijuana but who will protect the people from the laws? Charlies case is a perfect example of a bad law gone drastically wrong.


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## Kruzty (Jan 23, 2009)

Our govt is completely out of controll.Bob,glad ta see ya here.


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## Kratose (Jan 24, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> BobSilvey a veteran that lives in Kentucky, should be posting his story in this forum soon, we need to spread his story across this country loud and proud, we should not let our veterans or any citizens be subjected to the kind of treatment he has endured. I am asking every rollitup member that visits another forum to post his story there, visit the website he posts and check in. We need to be able to talk numbers, we want these charges dropped. I think his first court date is Feb 8th, he will let you know for sure, mark it on your calenders, it's time to go on offense. VV



You have my support, and So does the Vet!

All my Uncles were in Vietnam, and my Grandpa, was a vet of WW2. Gotta take care of our vets. So you have my support


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## Kratose (Jan 24, 2009)

bob silvey said:


> Thanks VV, the Preliminary hearing is feb 20th, we are being offered 8 years consecutive on every count and between my wife and I it is 96 years! Won't have to worry about this world any longer if that happens huh? LOL. I have news for them. I don't make deals with narcs or cops. I will firght them to the wall! thanks brother.



Wow, I can't believe that. So I am guessing you are a medical user of marijuana, and thats what they are trying to screw you for?

We can't let that 96 years happen. I be happy to help in anyway I possibly can.


----------



## Kratose (Jan 24, 2009)

bob silvey said:


> I was referred her by VV and I see a good group of free thinkers. Please feel free to visit us at www.k4mm.org and we are a new site that is rying to change the mindset in the state of KY. I appreciate being able to be part of this and hope we can change the whole country. it is time for a new way of thinking and action.


Wanted to say Welcome to RIU. I checked out your website, Very nice. I would like to get something like this going in Mass.

Keep up the good work.


----------



## Kratose (Jan 24, 2009)

Earl said:


> Monday January 12, 2009. Federal Judge George H. Wu denies former medical marijuana provider Charles C. Lynchs request for a new trial even though new evidence has been submitted. A jury found Lynch guilty of five cannabis-only felonies on August 5, 2008 for violating federal drug laws even though Lynchs dispensary, Central Coast Compassionate Caregivers (CCCC), provided medical marijuana legal within California law.
> 
> SLO County Sheriff, Pat Hedges, had his narcotics deputies investigate Lynch, his employees, his patients and his dispensary. For eleven months, Sheriffs deputies staked out the location taking photos, video, writing down license plate numbers, following patients and employees, and even pulling over employees after leaving the location.
> 
> ...


This is the story you wish us to spread? Yes?

Say the word and you got it!

I can't believe what they will do to someone making a difference. Someone helping others get the medicine they need so they don't have to take these useless expensive drugs given to us by the pharmaceutical companies.

We can't let something to terrible happen to someone who does so much good. Get this story out, and I am sure you will have many supporers.


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Jan 24, 2009)

Kruzty said:


> Our govt is completely out of controll.Bob,glad ta see ya here.


It's been a downward spiral of tyranny since the 1920s, our entire community fears the police... The police that vow to protect and serve...

The only service I've seen in the past ten years is violence, shootings, tasering... (How many people have to be tasered to death before they realize it's cruel and unusual?!?)

In other countries in Europe and Asia, the police don't chase you if you run. They realize they're putting innocent people's lives at stake by inciting a high speed chase, and avoid it entirely.

In London, police don't have weapons...

In Japan, if you are going over 100 MPH they don't even try to catch you, they only get crappy cars that can't possibly keep up... Whereas in America "land of the free" if you are going 100 and running from the cops, they'll spin you out of control and have their guns out and fixed on your head...

Fucked up huh...


I believe Barney Frank of Mass has been trying to get federal law to recognize medicinal users not as criminals, and to quit fucking with them, I haven't really been keeping up with the medicinal news, my states not a medicinal state, and if it was I'd still do it the way I've done it for years.


----------



## Kratose (Jan 24, 2009)

MrHowardMarks said:


> It's been a downward spiral of tyranny since the 1920s, our entire community fears the police... The police that vow to protect and serve...
> 
> The only service I've seen in the past ten years is violence, shootings, tasering... (How many people have to be tasered to death before they realize it's cruel and unusual?!?)
> 
> ...


Thanks man, I will google him and see what I can do. I actually went straight to Barack Obama. I know my letter probably wont get right to him, but I hope it grabs someones attention. 

All about the benefits of the legalization of marijuana, How many jobs it would create, the free medicine it would give, It can be used to make oil. Also you not to mention to other great uses, and its just good for the planet. I wrote up a proposal, and basically said, I am no Dr. No Scientist, just a normal person, like you were. And I have a idea like you do. Many share my idea, If this sparks your interest just by reading this propsol, just hear me out. 

Even if it does not get to the president. Or doesn't get anyones attention. I took a shot.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jan 24, 2009)

A lot of folks did, we crashed the phones yesterday complaining about the raid that was conducted on Thursday in California.VV


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## Kratose (Jan 24, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> A lot of folks did, we crashed the phones yesterday complaining about the raid that was conducted on Thursday in California.VV


Nice.

So thats the store that you guys want to be posted around right? The one Earl just posted? 

I know a few people who would be glad to do it. I am sure you know a few of them too vic.

Alot of good people here that would love to help. I am one of them.


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## Earl (Jan 24, 2009)

Makes me want to puke:



> DEA's San Francisco Field Division coordinates the statewide Domestic Cannabis Eradication/Suppression Program (DCE/SP). The number of plants eradicated and assets seized represent the largest totals in California history.


----------



## SnowTiger (Jan 24, 2009)

Question VV , I see that your using a greenhouse for your seedlings but I look at other people's journals and they don't use one , whats the diffrince between using one and not using one?


----------



## Kratose (Jan 24, 2009)

Earl said:


> Makes me want to puke:


No shit huh. WTF. Why aren't they out getting real criminals off the street? Or the people who are smuggeling drugs like herion into the US. 

Gotta fucking take our meds away so were forced to use there pharmaceuticals. Slimy bastards


----------



## MrHowardMarks (Jan 25, 2009)

SnowTiger said:


> Question VV , I see that your using a greenhouse for your seedlings but I look at other people's journals and they don't use one , whats the diffrince between using one and not using one?



I use a humidity dome too...

It's really just a way of keeping the humidity at a constant high level.

With peat based root plugs it keeps you from having to water them so often, and keeps the plugs at a good moisture level for a longer period of time. You do have to "burp" them occasionally.

I've always used the humidity dome tops... Except for the EZ cloner... But I didn't like it, and stick to the GH Rapid Rooters.


----------



## Kratose (Jan 25, 2009)

MrHowardMarks said:


> I use a humidity dome too...
> 
> It's really just a way of keeping the humidity at a constant high level.
> 
> ...


Very well said. I would have to agree in saying use a humidity dome.


----------



## VictorVIcious (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanx all of you. The treatment of our vets is horrendous at best. There are many stories like these three. MHM, special thanx, all of you please continue doing what we have been. Educating folks about Marijuna with the emphasize on how to grow.
Kratose, I started it with Bob's story because he stopped in another forum I belong to, the others posted here are just as important. 
When I joined rollit up the membership was about 500, now we have over 100,000, and we are not alone there are several other forums, many of us belong to more than one forum. I think the MJ forums have total memberships in the millions. We need to flex that muscle. VV


----------



## Kratose (Jan 25, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Thanx all of you. The treatment of our vets is horrendous at best. There are many stories like these three. MHM, special thanx, all of you please continue doing what we have been. Educating folks about Marijuna with the emphasize on how to grow.
> Kratose, I started it with Bob's story because he stopped in another forum I belong to, the others posted here are just as important.
> When I joined rollit up the membership was about 500, now we have over 100,000, and we are not alone there are several other forums, many of us belong to more than one forum. I think the MJ forums have total memberships in the millions. We need to flex that muscle. VV


And thats one big muscle we could flex!

I hear ya man, its really sad when you hear about that crap. My mom works for a soldiers home, they treat them really good there, but she use to work at others and she hated how they were treated. 

And I agree with ya, we need to educate the people. Let them know the truth about marijuana. They were fed so much BS from the government that they are brainwashed into thinking its a bad thing.

But, I can see were getting through to some people. As you know, last year a few states moved a jump ahead in the fight. So that means people were voting in favor, so were getting there. We still have lots of work to do. I want to see it recognized as legal by our government. That would be a major victory.


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 25, 2009)

No prob V, if someone is wanting to grow some herb, or has a question about growing, I'm more than happy to help them the best I can.

I'm educating people how to do it, at a much larger scale than Cali medicinal laws allow... But all the same, I try to help as best I can... Shit man, when I first joined I thought your journal was really long... Now my journal has grown a mind of its own, is well over 30k views and 1000 replies... 

If just 10% of those viewers were helped by my journal then I've helped 3000 people...


Keep up the good work, the more people we have growing their own, the less money gets shipped out of the country for brick weed and shitty beasters...


The time for the end of marijuana prohibition is at hand... Let's take back our right to grow a common native plant! 


That, or make it illegal to grow roses, tomatoes, corn, cotton... Etc.



*No more growing anything*


That's how ass-backwards our laws are.



If I want to grow a field of poppies, and make opium, I should be allowed to do so.



"Land of the free, home of the brave."


Stand up and be brave, when you are oppressed by your government it's your duty as a citizen to stand up against it, and take back the rights you deserve.

::raises one fist::


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 25, 2009)

told ya.lmao VV


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## Kratose (Jan 26, 2009)

Hey vic,

You know about the new Mass Decriminlization as we talked about before right? Guess whats all over the news....They are trying to amend that law. They want it out of here. They said they are stopping people and finding marijuana on them, but thats not all, they are using the, Most people we stop who have marijuana, also have other drugs on them bullshit.

They dont talk about the people who are just fund with a small amount of marijuana. Oh no ofcourse, they just talk about the people they stop that have other drugs too. so its not looking good now. I knew it was too good to last. 

I will do everything I can to keep it from happening though. Any suggestions would help vic.

Oh, I just put up some budshots in my journal, Feel free to stop by and check them out. The best shots are on page 37 I believe. Pics were taken at 12 days flowering, so don't expect huge budshots.


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## Earl (Jan 26, 2009)

You need to see this,
about the michigan supreme court justice
who admits he smoked weed in college,
but now claims weed is a gateway drug.
duh
Tell that to your fifth grader.

Greg Piasecki and the Oakland Norml News:
http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1464331#Post1464331


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 28, 2009)

Of course it's a gateway drug, kids are told how bad drugs are, and marijuana is lumped in with the harder ones.


Most kids try weed first, and realize it's awesome, and not that big of a deal, so they relate that information towards other drugs...


If marijuana was legal, it'd be like alcohol and cigarettes...


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## Kratose (Jan 28, 2009)

MrHowardMarks said:


> Of course it's a gateway drug, kids are told how bad drugs are, and marijuana is lumped in with the harder ones.
> 
> 
> Most kids try weed first, and realize it's awesome, and not that big of a deal, so they relate that information towards other drugs...
> ...


Even alcohol and cigarettes are worse than that, so it should be in a catagory below alcohol and ciggs.


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 28, 2009)

Agreed, just used them as an example...


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## MrHowardMarks (Jan 28, 2009)

As far as safety and health, marijuana is the best choice...

As far as the "drug" effect, i'd say it's this order...

Cigs<Weed<Alcohol<psycedelics<narcotics


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 28, 2009)

Except it wouldn't cause the same death and destruction. Busy as I can be right now, The 'team leader' forming the team. Need all kinds of Specialties. Folks that have their own video cams in different parts of the State and are willing to take non-face video would be welcomed. Well, gotta get to it. VV


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## Kratose (Jan 28, 2009)

VictorVIcious said:


> Except it wouldn't cause the same death and destruction. Busy as I can be right now, The 'team leader' forming the team. Need all kinds of Specialties. Folks that have their own video cams in different parts of the State and are willing to take non-face video would be welcomed. Well, gotta get to it. VV


Cool Man! Got lots of work to do I see. Thats good man. keep up the good work


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## northsidenovis (Apr 22, 2009)

YO hey there good thread just thought I'd say HI from over here in NZ


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 22, 2009)

There was a Lady grower here from NZ about a year ago. Outside or inside?? VV


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## CaliGurl (Apr 25, 2009)

*Keep trucking VV sounds like you gotta alot to do! keep up the good work..I have something nice Id like to pass ur way.. when you got a chance shoot me a note gotta catchup! *




VictorVIcious said:


> Except it wouldn't cause the same death and destruction. Busy as I can be right now, The 'team leader' forming the team. Need all kinds of Specialties. Folks that have their own video cams in different parts of the State and are willing to take non-face video would be welcomed. Well, gotta get to it. VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 4, 2009)

CaliGurl said:


> *Keep trucking VV sounds like you gotta alot to do! keep up the good work..I have something nice Id like to pass ur way.. when you got a chance shoot me a note gotta catchup! *


Well..maybe not as much as I used to. I will be starting a new journal. I have started changing over to meet the Medical Marijuana Law, plant count has to be no more than 72 with 5 patients if you are their caregiver and a patient yourself. I am one now, got my card, issued on 4/20 and expires on my 61st birthday.
Here are a few of my buds drying, still have some to harvest. All of the rest of the plants are in 2 or 3 gallon containers, 9 plants per 3 x 3 table when I have it full.
This Juicy Fruit is one I had saved for a mother for someone else. He wasn't able to take her, so.... we had to adjust her, from a little over 4' tall down to about 3', she seems to like it so far. VV


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## CaliGurl (May 5, 2009)

*Ah yes very nice.. I wish that was my bud drying tehehehe  ya those JF i got are massive bushy fat colas everywhere.. well nicely done my friend keep me posted on life *




VictorVIcious said:


> Well..maybe not as much as I used to. I will be starting a new journal. I have started changing over to meet the Medical Marijuana Law, plant count has to be no more than 72 with 5 patients if you are their caregiver and a patient yourself. I am one now, got my card, issued on 4/20 and expires on my 61st birthday.
> Here are a few of my buds drying, still have some to harvest. All of the rest of the plants are in 2 or 3 gallon containers, 9 plants per 3 x 3 table when I have it full.
> This Juicy Fruit is one I had saved for a mother for someone else. He wasn't able to take her, so.... we had to adjust her, from a little over 4' tall down to about 3', she seems to like it so far. VV


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## DIRTBAG (May 20, 2009)

Hey, you needs to come play more often...!!!

What have you been up to..???


Oh, dust farter............ Come out, come out, where ever you are........


Db.~tlb!


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## VictorVIcious (May 20, 2009)

Well, its fate I think. I just acquired some Free Leonard clones from the guy that developed the strain. They are G-13XHawiianButterscotch. And I have been working on growing bigger plants less of them. I will post some pixs and stuff later. VV


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## mattso101 (May 20, 2009)

Hey VV! sounds like some very nice genetics there. Speaking of nice Genetics Check out my Journal
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/137632-mattsos-la-confidential-grow-8.html


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## VictorVIcious (May 12, 2010)

Wow, its been a year since I posted anything in a journal. Many things have changed or soon will. We have added a 13' by 14' room to the operation. Now we have a dedicated flowering room. Plan is to have 72 plants flowering for 8 weeks in a perpetual grow. We have just 18 in there now, the changes took longer than anticipated. Any one that has been there will understand how quickly the funds dry up when your not harvesting. Our first harvest is scheduled for June 18th, we will be in a holding pattern until then. 

This will allow us to sharpen our cloning skills, and tighten up the rooms. All of the strains listed in this journal are gone. We have some decent strains, at least they are supposed to be. The list is
KCB Mango
Big Bud 
Big Green
Brand X (may be Williams Wonder)
Burmese Kush
Blue Widow
Pure Kush
Danny Trevino (northern light/ ?? I forgot)
Swampy's Free Leonard (Hawaiin Butterscotch/G-13)
Smashberry 
Strawberry Cough/Hindu Kush (Seedling)
MissMulberry ( Seeds )

Yep, it looks like it might be time to start a new journal?? VV


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## Indefinately (Jun 27, 2010)

Hey VV

I have spent almost the entire day going through your journal.....
Start your new journal , get it up running so i can follow that one from the begining.

Im in the process of setting up an "Al B Fuct" style OP.
Lots of informative Info on your thread, appreciate all your work.

I will be posting lots of updates shortly on my thread, maybe you can come in and give me some pointers since Al isnt around any more..........LOL

All the best........


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 14, 2012)

I suppose a new journal may be in order. We have moved to another location with 32 X48 Pole Building, just finished building a 20' x 8' vegging room the rest of the 26 x 29 is for flowering, 3 rows of 4' tables, 20' long rows, 2' square space per plant. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 23, 2012)

You think I haven't said this all before? And it is just spam?  Try just deleting the account Punked. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 23, 2012)

mattso101 said:


> Hey VV! sounds like some very nice genetics there. Speaking of nice Genetics Check out my Journal
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/137632-mattsos-la-confidential-grow-8.html


Fate again or maybe just the time of year for remembering where we were, for me it has been 6 years, rollitup had less than 500 members, imagine that. It took a little over a year for me to post my first journal, this one was the second one, there have been many changes since then.

In our new grow facility, as it has always been for me, one thing will remain constant, CHANGE. Right now we have 3 rows of lights in the flowering room, each row covers 20' by 4' more or less. 2 rows are (7) 600 watt hps and one row of (5) 1000 watt hps. We just put up the last row. 

4200 watts for the row of 600's and duh 5000 watts for the row of 1000's. We decided that the row of plants under the 7-600's is doing better than the one under the 5-1000's so we purchased the 600's for the last row. If, after harvest we find that even though they may have looked better they did not produce better we will re-evaluate and adjust as necessary.

If the vegging room we have 3-600 watt lights over the teenagers and (2) T-5 ( bulb 4' fixtures for the toddlers, and then just an ordinary 4' 2bulb flourescent for the new babies. That whole room is only 20' by 8' seems bigger because the ceilings are 12'. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 23, 2012)

We are trying to decide if the 19 gal pots or the 7 gallon pots are going to give us the best yield, won't be able to really tell until next year. We have pretty much built the rooms from the proceeds of the rooms, I think it is impressive. Central air and heat for those rooms, the work room heat will have to wait. lol VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 1, 2012)

I just got a new camera. We have been working on the new place as the funds allow for about a year, we moved here on Jan 1st, 2012. 
I decided it is time to share a few pictures. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 1, 2012)

That last shot is Brenda, a LA Confidential, about 5' out of the pot. I purchased the 19 gallon pots from Menard's for $6. each, drilled holes in the bottom for drainage, stuck that inside one without the holes. We cut our 4' by 4' table tops into 2' by 2' squares, screwed a set of wheels from Harbor Freight for $8.00 on the bottom, Mobil Monsters, my wife calls them the Plus Sized Girls.The plan is see if we can get the same yields by growing bigger plants and less of them. Any input by master growers is welcomed. VV


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## MasterLikes420 (Dec 4, 2012)

VictorVIcious said:


> That last shot is Brenda, a LA Confidential, about 5' out of the pot. I purchased the 19 gallon pots from Menard's for $6. each, drilled holes in the bottom for drainage, stuck that inside one without the holes. We cut our 4' by 4' table tops into 2' by 2' squares, screwed a set of wheels from Harbor Freight for $8.00 on the bottom, Mobil Monsters, my wife calls them the Plus Sized Girls.The plan is see if we can get the same yields by growing bigger plants and less of them. Any input by master growers is welcomed. VV



It's been a while since i've been on here and since we've spoken! How is the new place? I'll have to get out to see you some time soon! Very curious how things go with the 19's. I've been gradually increasing pot size but am only using 5GAL right now, and have definitely noticed the difference in increase. But that might be in part to me finding something I think finally works on spider mites. Despite trying neem oil, azamax, SNS, and a bunch of other stuff it looks like Mighty Wash might have done the trick at last.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 5, 2012)

Well.... you will just have to stop by and see, I think it looks good. And we are harvesting. VV


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## dmoose (Dec 5, 2012)

Its GREAT to see you kicking around here again! 

I still have fond thoughts about you and all the Help you provided in the earlier years!

Peace!


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## MasterLikes420 (Dec 6, 2012)

Hetic day today but I have some free time tomorrow. I'll call before I head your way.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 7, 2012)

Hey Dmoose, nice to be able to post something, it has been almost 4 years since I posted regularly. Now we don't just have a 'grow room' we have a Building that is dedicated to growing medical marihuana and the related activity.

We will probably Journal one run of plants from clone to harvest, approximately 4 months, may start using the "Secrets of the West Coast Masters" method. VV


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