# Aliens



## skunkushybrid (Sep 29, 2006)

The type that come from other planets.

Anyone believe they have landed on Earth? Not that they don't exist as I believe they do, the odds of them not are too great. Actually believe though that they have landed on Earth? Or that they kidnap people for experiments?


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## Widow Maker (Sep 29, 2006)

I kid around a lot but I am serious about this.

I have seen ufos before. I was 15 and I still remember it like it was today. I wasnt on any drugs fyi. I was looking in the sky and happened to notice two lights going towards each other. I thought they were airplanes getting ready to crash. Well the two lights hit each other and made one light. The light turned red and got about 3x bigger. Then it went back down to the original size and turned blue and got bigger again. Then the light split into 3 small white lights in a straight horizotal line. They sat there for about 2 seconds and then they all shot different directions. It was fucking weird. I didnt tell anyone about it for like a year. It really got me thinking about how small we really are.

I have seen ghost and a real psychic too. I will get to the religion thread but I dont have enough time to post that yet.


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## potroastV2 (Sep 29, 2006)

widow sounds like an acid trip  There has to be other life out there. And suitable planets to sustain life.


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## medicinaluseonly (Sep 29, 2006)

Anyone that doesn't believe in life on other planets, is missing quite a few brain cells. Even if you believe that life started in tidepools and we crawled out of the swamps and eventually walked on two legs (why are there still apes on this planet if we descended from them), you would almost have to agree that with billions of planets out there, there could be life on them. Now take the fact that the universe is billions of years old, is it not possible that on another planet somewhere in the universe, an intelligent species evolved, or was created some time before our world was habitable, and these beings having millions-billions of years head start on us, could have the capacity to visit our world. I'm sure they're curious about us like we're curious about the dinosaurs, plus we're much more interesting because we have shit to blow things up and maybe cause a catastrophe in the universe. If you don't believe in extra-terrestials, you must be brain dead. Of course the powers that be, don't want you believing in such things, how dare we think there might be some being more intelligent than our leaders. Nope I've never seen one, although to be honest, on a two year sabbatical in the wilderness of Arizona, I saw quite a few U.F.O.s, remember what a UFO is: an unidentified flying object, I saw a few that did things that no known terrestial object could achieve.


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 30, 2006)

I believe there is something out there, maybe BILLIONS of LIGHT YEARS away, but there all the same. But as far as visiting this planet is concerned I always like to think of it like this.

Say it is us that find life first. We come across a planet with sentient living beings. They're not as advanced as us (we've discovered the warp-drive), they've only just discovered the wheel.

What would We do? The first thing we'd do is more than likely check out the planet's resources. Technology uses a lot of these. Then when we discovered the richness of it as the inhabitants technology is limited to cutting down a few trees. We'd go and take it. Maybe the Aliens would put up a little struggle, but they'd be no match for us. We'd take everything they had and then try and teach them how to form Governments. Most of our major advancements have come through WARS. 

Now turn it around.


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## Widow Maker (Sep 30, 2006)

It will really be a "new world order" then. You are right, that is exactly how it will be done. We will do them like the indians. And give them a moon or something to live on. Im sure with this envasion habbit we have its already in the planning. They prolly have a step by step guide by now.


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 30, 2006)

Give it a couple of hundred years and we'll be blowing Alien scum straight to hell!!!


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## jacgrass420 (Sep 30, 2006)

i find it hard to believe we are the only ones in the universe


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## medicinaluseonly (Sep 30, 2006)

can't you envision an alien culture that is so far advanced from us that they no longer have wars or the need to rape other cultures for their resources . Maybe we could even get there ourselves, but without "Divine Intervention" I'm pretty sure were destined to self destruct. Maybe it's like "star trek" and there are waring clans all over the universe, although you must realize these theorys were propagated by a human and we all know how fallible they are. Can you imagine a planet where the condition of the majority of the inhabitants live in worse poverty, have more wars, more animosity towards one another, more self-importance and less caring than this one, I believe that would be called Hell! There are a few good human beings on this planet, I don't think there are enough to stop the madness. Nuclear holocost is inevitable. Man has never made a weapon that he has not used extensively, Hiroshima was a drop in the bucket!


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 30, 2006)

Technology costs resources. If you mean spiritually advanced where they don't fight and things, well... they'd be easy pickings.


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## medicinaluseonly (Sep 30, 2006)

Maybe, maybe not (easy pickens) Have you heard of mind over matter?


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 1, 2006)

Read about it in fiction. But why would these beings have EVOLVED this power?


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 1, 2006)

who knows what the mind is capable of. Einstein only used 12% of his grey matter. That was determined by cutting open his brain and observing it by medical professionals. maybe when we have got brain usage up in the 80-90 percentile, we could perform some tasks now thought impossible. The average person only uses 8-10 percent, pot smokers less, and if the medical professionals are right, pot smokers destroy a good percentage of their brain cells so maybe we arent the ones to figure out the universe just yet!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 1, 2006)

THC is a chemical that enables deep thought. Fair enough this may be at the expense of other brain functions but I don't believe that it makes us less capable to think. The most profound thoughts you'll ever have enter your head when you are high on THC. You focus your energy more on the act of thinking. Look at Stephen Hawking, before he was dis-abled he was just an average physicist, now he is one of the most prominent astro-physicists in the world. His dis-ability has just made him concentrate more on thinking, This is very similar to the way THC works. It disables parts of your brain so that you can concentrate more on using the other parts. 

Also the cells in our bodies are constantly dying and being replaced. Scientists aren't sure whether after prolonged drug use the cells are replaced. The best thing to do is keep your mind active, puzzles or my personal favourite chess. Reading is excellent, whether it be fact or fiction. I always play chess while stoned, the game doesn't interest me hardly at all when I'm sober.

Most of the greatest writers throughout time were drug users. Even George Orwell had a heavy addiction to nicotine. To say that drugs destroy your brain, I feel is untrue. If you keep your mind active no harm should befall it.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 1, 2006)

Take two hits of acid and call me in the morning. Maybe it will wake up your brain cells, Hell you might even see God!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 1, 2006)

LSD is something I did a lot as a kid. Admittedly I did take it a little too much. Take it, miss a day etc. I used to prefer taking 4 hits of acid minimum as I found I entered a different world once I took this many. Acid opened my mind in many ways. Despite the mind bending qualities of acid I felt that my mind was better served, mental health-wise, when I took MDMA. About 15 years ago now that drug lifted me off my feet and helped me see the world with new eyes. It helped me realise what life is.

I've never really suffered from hangovers with any drug. Unless you count feeling tired. I suppose that that is where my long relationship with cannabis comes from. 

It's funny you should mention about seeing God on a trip. On my 1st prison sentence me and my mate were looking at some serious bird. It was x-mas and my missus at the time brought me up a package on a visit. Amongst this x-mas bundle was some acid. I think there were about twenty tabs. Anyway my co-accused had never taken acid before. So I shared it out with him and a few mates before we all got locked up again for the night. He was in a different cell to me and apparently while tripping he heard God speaking to him through the ventilation grille. It was enough to get him hospitalised for 6 weeks under mental health. We got the main charges dropped and copped short sentences of 18 months. After he got out he left crime behind and joined the Jesus Army. Lost his bollocks, just like that!


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 1, 2006)

OK, I give up. Your way too hard core to change, just think about the death bed thing. when your drawing your last breaths, you might see the light, I can only hope, for your sake. I'm definently not trying to convert anyone, I just thought reasonable people would have to admit that the complexities of this world are far beyond the scope of man ergo a power greater than man must exist. I worked with an athiest and try as I could, I couldn't convince him either, so, you either get it or you don't, and I don't know if you can change, I know that I can never give up hope that a power greater than me exists somewhere in the cosmos and in the final analysis, things work for the greater good! peace!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 2, 2006)

I've thought about the deathbed thing on a number of occasions, written about it a few times too. I suppose with the fear of death and it rearing it's ugly head you would be inclined to cling onto any tiny bit of hope that you might not actually be dying. Much easier to believe that when we die we are not like our favourite dog or cat, that when we die we will still be somehow sentient, not gone completely, no, surely not.

Death is something to be afraid of, and deep down we all are. None more so than you religous types, your fear of death is so great that you actually believe you are going to live forever when you die.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 2, 2006)

There you go, religious types, belive me, I think religion is an inherant evil shoved at us like a drug to keep us under control by the powers that be. No I'm not religious, I'm spiritual. I believe there is more to life than skin and bones. Each person has a soul,an indescribable entity that has been scientifically shown to leave the body at death. When you die a miniscule weight is lifted from your body without any scientific explanation, that entity is believed to be your soul, they have actually weighed this and it is consistent with every person they have weighed at death. There was a study done expressly for this purpose! What do you think, maybe you won't lose any weight at death, maybe you don't have one. You've got one, you just haven't discovered it yet, hang in there, there's hope for you yet! peace.


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 2, 2006)

An entity scientifically shown to leave the body upon death. Where did you read that, in one of your Arthur C Clarke novels? You do realise that you are bordering on the ridiculous here?

Forgive me for calling you religious, I realise there is a big difference. 

So there is a miniscule amount of weight lost just after the point of death. Maybe this is the lungs emptying, bladder etc. They all go you know. Even the liquid around your eyes dries up.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 3, 2006)

They have eliminated all the parameters, bladder, feces, escaping air etc. This was a scientific study performed in a hospital with terminal patients. You're sure fighting the premisis without any counter explanation. You know, maybe someone stole his wedding ring at the final moment, Shit happens.


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 3, 2006)

But how did they eliminate all the parameters? How do they know exactly how much urine a person is holding? How did they measure the escaping air or for that matter how much was in this individual to begin with?

It really isn't difficult to fight my corner when the opposition is determined to front fiction as fact.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 3, 2006)

I wasnt in the room at the time so i really can't tell you how they did it. Like I said, it was a scientific experiment, not a religious one, since you believe in science, you should know that to be accurate, all paramaters must be covered. Maybe they had them in a special tub to contain all the fluids on a set of scales. All I can say is I read the article in the doctors office in a medical magazine, maybe Scientific Journal or something like that. Hey If you don't want to believe there is anything past skin and bones into dirt, have at it. I'm only trying to open your mind. "A mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open". I don't know who said that but I like it!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 4, 2006)

From what I know of science, it is often far from accurate. Do you have some more info' on this as I'd like to check it out. Maybe I'll do a search myself, type something like: 'weight loss after death' or something like that.

My mind has been opened many, many times. I have explored with my mind futher than you could ever imagine, and I still do. Just because I have closed my mind to certain avenues of thought does not make my mind closed. I have thought long and hard, read and written. My mind isn't closed, it is reborn.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 4, 2006)

Into what?


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 4, 2006)

Into a wise and knowing mind. Look at the age of you and you still have a penchant for the fanciful. Age does not necessarily equal wisdom.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 4, 2006)

And a wise man doesn't do stupid things Ie. become a criminal and spend time incarcerated. I'll agree some wise men went to jail but usually not for being, as you have stated, a common criminal. If you were so wise, maybe you could have avoided prison, just my lowly opinion!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 4, 2006)

Wisdom comes with age and EXPERIENCE, especially the latter. Experience is also not the be-all and end-all, it also matters what you glean from those experiences. You also shouldn't be too quick judge about prison, you may well end up there yourself. Maybe then a life of crime would help you survive.

You yourself have made the decision to become a criminal, the only difference with me is that i started as a child.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 4, 2006)

I don't abide with the concept of growing marijuana for medicinal use, is to make me a criminal. I would get a permit, but then you would be registered and easy to find by the U.S. marshals that enforce federal laws that usurp state medical growing laws. I define a criminal as one whom has used or created others demise to further their own interests. IE. burglars, rapists, thieves, murderers, assaulters, politicians, corporate thieves, terrorists, the list is long, but growing Marijuana in My state is legal for medicinal purposes, the fact that there are only 600 registered growers in the state, tells me that most people don't trust the govt.


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## ViRedd (Oct 4, 2006)

"I define a criminal as one whom has used or created others demise to further their own interests."

Ummm ... in my estimation, that defines a socialist perfectly. 

Vi


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 4, 2006)

In mine it defines a capatilist! Why are you so dumb? As I said, your intelligent, just not smart! Have a nice life, and try not to fuck too many people out of their money, you know, the greed thing you tried to piss off!


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## ViRedd (Oct 4, 2006)

My dear old, new friend. This is a political discussion and not a fight. Using the "dumb" word is not nice. I suggest that you counter the ideas and not attack the messenger. 

You have yet to resolve the fact that taking from one by force, to give to another in need is theft, and as such, is immoral. Please address that issue. Thanks ...

Vi


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 4, 2006)

I had the need for some four letter words, a fault of the common man!


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## ViRedd (Oct 4, 2006)

You have yet to resolve the fact that taking from one by force, to give to another in need is theft, and as such, is immoral. Please address that issue. Thanks ...

Want to take a stab at that? ^^^ ^^^


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 5, 2006)

I think Your premise is wrong. You make the govt. out to be a thief. Well maybe the govt. we have now, run by lobbyists and corporations are thieves. A properly run Government, one that is there to make their citizens life safe and prosperous would be (impossible) the only way my premise would work. I don't see that as a large priority with this govt. This govt. is your govt. Give the taxes back to the rich (why are you bitching) and pour it on the dissapearing middle class. The poor have no clout. It's time to storm the bastille!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 5, 2006)

As soon as you break the law you are a criminal. The law doesn't care where your shade of grey resides, doesn't care that you don't class it as a crime. You'd still end up in prison. When I get to your age I'll have left prison far behind me.

When you fuck with the authorities they fuck you back, only much harder. I've always lived by my own rules and the petty thefts I committed were pretty much a product of the care system I was brought up in. It was a natural progression for me to go to prison and yes it is a circle that is extremely hard to get out of. I had no family, no mom and dad to teach me the ways of the world. As a child I learned that if you want something, you take it.

As a by-product of this up-bringing I developed a hard heart. I didn't care about myself and in turn anybody else. i was on the edge all the time, ever ready to explode into violence. and yes I've done some very bad things.

7 years ago I met my gf, suddenly I had someone that cared about what happened to me. That liked the person she saw behind the facade. She saw something in me and not long after meeting her I changed myself into a better person.

I still know how people's minds work and I know that this world isn't full of love. That most people given ultimate power would behave exactly the same way Hitler did. 

For every lover there needs to be a fighter around for when things get messy.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 5, 2006)

Barring religious Ideas, we're pretty close on most of the rest of it, The only criminal things I've been caught for were drugs. and only once when a package of peyote showed up at my door followed by 20 Narcs. I'm not a total innocent, but I never commited crimes against my fellow man, at least not knowingly, with avarice. I don't condemn you for the past and hope you are on a better path, like I said, I don't see growing Marijuana as a crime. Unfortunately, most countries do. In my state it is legal to grow 7 plants if you register for medicinal use, with a doctors prescription. Two problems with that, finding a Doctor willing to stick his neck out, and registering with the state. Does anyone really trust the Govt. It's still a federal crime, and if pressured wouldn't the state give up the names of the registered. Only 600 people have registered so far and the law has been in effect two years


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 5, 2006)

I too do not classify cultivation of marijuana as either illegal or immoral. I mean what right do they have to tell you you can't grow a plant? Fair enough, mixing chemicals together is a different matter. But a naturally growing plant? The law is repulsive in it's avarice. The law is greedy because the only real reason we're not allowed marijuana is because the Government has no way of making money from it.

It's not like tobacco or alcohol. Growing and processing your own tobacco would simply be insane, and your own alcohol 99% of the time probably tastes disgusting. Much easier to buy it from a shop or when socialising in a bar. If the Government legalised marijuana they wouldn't have the control because everybody would have a grow space in their homes. They don't care how much we want it because there's nothing in it for them.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 6, 2006)

I kinda believe that if they legalised it, they could tax it and still sell it way below market prices today. There are a lot of people whom have niether the time or inclination to grow their own and would buy from a govt.store. Journeyman pot growers like your self could get a position overseeing the growth factories and make a legitimate living, not to mention what you could take home for your self. Who wouldnt like a job working in a greenhouse with 20 ft. tall MJ plants. I'd certainly sign up.


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 6, 2006)

A few years ago a t.v. station made a programme, a hypothetical programme with the premise that cannabis had been legalised. I really can't remember the reasons why our Government would have to import the bud, but it was said that this would need to be the case. Then there is the processing as they are hardly likely to sell it by the oz. They'd put it in confectionary or ready-rolled spliffs mixed with tobacco. Then there's the research that would need to be constantly maintained so as to monitor public health.

I remember, and this was about 10 years ago, that the price of a small box of cannabis chocolates would cost you 20 quid Sterling. The price of a pack of cannabis cigarettes would be double.

Obviously there was a lot more to the programme than this, but with prices like this people would grow their own. Why pay for some watered down Government shit when you can grow White Russian in your living room.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 6, 2006)

That must have been a flawed study. What is the price of cannabis in Amsterdam? I'm sure if it was legal, entirely legal, some Capitalists would compete to have the best for the lowest price. It would be a market controlled substance. If you could grow your own, the growers couldn't charge too much or no-one would buy from them. Like everything else in the capitalist world, the more volume the less the cost to grow and hopefully the less the cost to the consumer. I've never said I was against Capitalism, Just the greedy ones. Who can argue that a CEO is worth 20 million bucks a year, probably ViREdd. Yes they have to make decisions, but then they delegate the manifestations of those decisions to others, and go golfing., They probably deserve a higher salary than their minions, but 20-100 million, come on now! To satisfy the govt. you could tax the product like tobacco, and have a small tax on home growers, like say $20.00 a year. that would bring in billions for the politicians to play with. Then the people would have to mandate no raising of the taxes! A very desirable scenario, but highly unlikely in our lifetime!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 7, 2006)

Very desirable yes. Of course the programme was flawed it was based on a hypothetical situation, no one can say for sure that this is how it would work.

The price of skunk in the 'dam is the same here, about 120 quid an oz, although since the drought the price of an oz here has gone right up. I've heard people asking 160 for cheese.

We'd also need to build facilities to house the imported weed, factories to process it. Unfortunately this country is very small and everything costs more than it should. Then there are the labourers, security, management, big-wigs, then the Government. Everyone would want a slice of the pie and this would push prices up.

If the U.S. were to legalise it it would be okay because you have miles upon miles of unused land that could be used for Cultivation on a Global scale. The U.S., if handled properly could make a killing on the legalisation. I realise the U.S. is big on religion so maybe you should elect a Rastafarian President.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 7, 2006)

I'm pretty sure rastafarianism is not considered a religion by the powers that be. Changing the powers that be would be the most difficult task. For example: all the hippies of the 60s and 70s are now the powers that be, and they're all greedy penuses. Every generation wants peace and love untill they get to be in charge, then it changes to power and greed. I guess that is the human condition. I realize that you don't believe in religion, and I don't want to change you, but don't you ever wonder if there's not a Devil running this world?


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## Doobie006 (Oct 20, 2006)

I for one am pretty sure there is no devil, and probably no God either, at least not an inteligent one. BTW, I thought we were talking about Aliens.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 20, 2006)

Whats more alien than an angel? Do you think those apparitions as mentioned in the Bible as Angels were really Aliens? Do you believe we descended from apes or designed intelligence. I wonder why there's still apes on the planet? could an alien culture have landed here at the time in the Bible known as Genisis ie. Adam and Eve and planted Adam and Eve here as an experiment, and now they stop by and check on us. I'd say they'd be pretty dissapointed and if it were me I'd end the experiment and start over. Man has totally fucked the planet and most of the rest of humanity, war and hate everywhere, weapons stockpiled that could end all life on the planet. I'd say it's an experiment gone bad! Sure there are a few good eggs, but the egg salad is rotten!


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## arizonared (Oct 20, 2006)

Skunk, you would love this book "The Denial of Death" by Ernest Becker
don't know if it's available over there but he won a Pulitzer in general non fiction for it here,so the writing is absolutely beautiful and the themes sooo thought provoking. Pretty much a compendium of psychoanalytical and philisophical thought on the subject of dying and the things we do on a concious but mostly unconcious level to avoid confronting the fact that in the end we are all food for worms. Had a profound impact on me and sent me off to read some of the original works cited there.


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## arizonared (Oct 20, 2006)

there are still apes on this planet because evolution is not a straight line. We at some point diverged onto our own path and they continued on theirs. If you'll notice there are several different species of "apes" and all fill a niche in the environment. There have been many such divergences over time as the fossil record reveals.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 20, 2006)

So, I get it, we're just the higest form of ape. I can see I'm fighting a losing battle here so I'll just say this: "You may be an ape, I'm not"! now go eat your greens!


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## ViRedd (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll believe in evolution the day the evolutionists show me the fossil evidence. Until that day comes, the evolutionists are merely supporting their position, not upon science as they claim, but upon that which they demean us for; faith.

Vi


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## Doobie006 (Oct 20, 2006)

Scientists HAVE shown fossil evidence and continue discovering more evidence. What people seem to misunderstand is that evolution is a theory, meaning "guess" or some abstract idea. That is not the case. Evolution is an undisputed fact that can be observed and has been observed. Now, "The Theory of Evolution" is simply an attempt at explaining how Evolution (the process itself) works. Darwin for example, proposed the idea of Natural Selection as an explanation. His idea was brilliant. It was and still is the best explanation for how Evolution works, in fact Biology would make absolutely no sense without his explanation. Now that does not mean we can't find another explanation, it just means we haven't yet. 

I must point out however, that the disagreements between some scientists over evolution is in the details of how it works (the Theory) not wether it happens. No credible scientist denies that evolution takes place.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 20, 2006)

So what are humans evolving into, Aliens, big heads and small bodies because we have Robots or (illegals) to do all the work? Please, go eat your greens apeman, I prefer to think I'm slightly above animas status, but if your so convinced that you're an ape, I say se-la-vie. or oohh ahh oohh ahh, ooh ahh. Can you understand that?


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## Doobie006 (Oct 20, 2006)

Did you not study biology or something? meduse? I mean fuck, People who are interested in growing plants should have some basic understanding of Biology.


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## arizonared (Oct 20, 2006)

Evolution is not trying to take your faith away from you. There is a force out there larger than any of us, incomprehensible and oblivious to our petty wants and desires. Shit happens and you could be gone in an instant. How you choose to conduct yourself here, in the unknowable time allotted is up to you. There's room for your belief that there is a God and that there is a plan for you. If you want to take it to the next level and believe that it's some benevolent grandpa who's gonna send a guardian angel down here to look after you...well have at it.


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## BaconSquishy (Oct 20, 2006)

bet the aliens have much better weed than us. Id love to get into some of that stuff. Probably why if aliens have landed here the government is covering it up because they dont want to us to have even better stuff or they want it all for their selves


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## AllMeatNoPotato (Oct 20, 2006)

fuckin government is bogarting the good alien shit. I think it is funny when I read things like this. I can almost prove the exhistance of life on other planets. any planet that has ice has aliens living on it. I am not talking about the bipedal alien profile that you see at like roswell or anything. not little green guys walking around like us. you have to think much smaller. water is balanced by single cell organisms. for ice to form there has to be an h2o or equilivent molecule to sustain the molecular structure of the ice. and who is going to balance the PH levels, structure, reproduction, intake, and expulsion - alien single cell beings. if this seems to abstract right now, sit down and get truely baked out of your gord. after awhile you will say 'hell yeah that shits for real'!


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## BaconSquishy (Oct 20, 2006)

makes sence bro. Little small to be making much of a difference though for things other than ph balancing. Still though good ice is a start.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 20, 2006)

Havent all you high apemen ever watched "Alien Nation", Get a grip. I think my next door neighbors are from another planet. You never know. talk about the un-knowable, I think the whole Bush clan is from another planet, Kinda makes you question the space program Eh!


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## AllMeatNoPotato (Oct 20, 2006)

med you are crazy!!!!!!!!!lol 
yo do you think your neighbors are the cone heads?


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 20, 2006)

Well thank you very much, I was wondering when you guys would catch on! Cone heads, No but they're pretty wierd, and the one alien keeps taking my parking space. I'll have to sic my brother on him!


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## arizonared (Oct 20, 2006)

Allmeatnoptoatoes...where did you get that picture of Bert and Ernie w/a bong?? lol how profane


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 21, 2006)

We are still evolving just as the universe is still expanding. Everything around us is growing and learning. I don't think there is room for any God. 

I can't believe that people can deny something like evolution and then talk about magic and fairy tales as though they are the truth. So Vi' you want proof before you believe that evolution is real, what proof do you need of a God? Don't you need to see it too? You'd rather believe a fable written 2,000 years ago that scientific fact.

There is no God, no Devil, no angels. When you're dead you're dead, get over it.


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## Doobie006 (Oct 21, 2006)

Well said Skunk. It's good to hear from someone who knows what he's talking about. Denying evolution is the equivalent of people thinking the earth is flat.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 21, 2006)

I think the Earth is as flat as your minds, thinking we are ape men is like thinking the earth is flat. When your dead your dead, yeah, your body is dead, no doubt about that, but what about your spirit, that thing that actually separates us from the apes. I know not what happens to your spirit after death. there are a lof different speculations, but to be honest I don't know for sure. It has been proven that your body loses an infintesimal amount of unaccounted weight at death, those doing the experiments claim that is your spirit leaving. People that have had near death experiences tell of wonderful things that happen at the moment of death, seeing a bright light, moving towards them, seeing their dead relatives as alive and welcoming them into the light, etc. Maybe you Apemen don't have a spirit and when you die your nothing but wormfood, could be so. And since you dont have spirits, I kinda feel for you-Not! Live life as though this is it for this is all you've got. Why aren't you out pillaging and raping since there in no accountability after death. the worms don't care what kind of person you've been. "Oh you of little faith", "damn the torpedos, full steam ahead", "live life like ther'es no tomorrow" Well ther'es no tomorrow for you after death. Apemen forever. I see you guys on that apeman commercial on TV, You appear smarter on TV than in this forum! My opinion only!


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## AllMeatNoPotato (Oct 21, 2006)

jesus christ med, nopun intended.  what I think is funny how you two are debating the existance of a supreme entity. I'll tell you how I do it (don't think it will matter much though). Prove to me that there is a god. Disprove to me the exhistance of a god. no takers. he cannot be proven by our five senses. you cannot deny the ego, superego, and id from saying that something is there that cannot be seen but is felt. as far as the cavement on tv, my wife think they are the funniest thing on the planet. myself, I like the jack links commercials called 'messing with sasquatch'. even though I have the beliefs that I do, I still live a moral and ethical life. i try to fall into the perameters of society (not for the cheeba though). my belief os called 'agnostic', and be careful, you may be one also. why don't we all try to agree to disagree. Then pass the fuckin hookah this way!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 21, 2006)

The fact that you feel something that can't be described with your 5 senses should alert you to the fact there are some things men cannot understand, even apemen> People of faith call this spirit, (The Holy ghost)! even if you don't believe (have faith) you and the apeman have a spirit! The fact that they can't recognize it matters not, it's still there! So the world may be flat as the apemens heads, but the spirit is there. I guess it's just stronger or more recognized in some people. Don't worry, the worms won't get the best part of you. I feel if you live your life as "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", you will be rewarded at death no matter what you believe. so living a good life may have more benefits than you think!


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## Doobie006 (Oct 21, 2006)

Meduse, with all due respect, you really should read more and expand your knowledge. Your philosophy is all over the place, and does not conform to logic.
Now with that said...
When you die, you do loose a tiny bit of weight. 21 grams I believe, there was a movie (with that same title) staring Sean Penn. There was a line in the movie where someone suggested that 21 grams must be the weight of a soul.
However, in reality no one who observed this phenomenon has ever claimed that it is your spirit leaving your body.

Now before we can start talking about spirits or souls, lets try to define what we mean be that. I assume (And correct me if I'm wrong) that your idea of soul or spirit is something that resembles the movie "Ghost" with Patrick Swayze; That there is spirit inside you that looks like you do and that spirit leaves your body when you die and then goes to Heaven or hell or something along those lines...

I certainly don't believe that. I think most people who study philosophy or have academically studied many different religions would find that idea absurd.

Now we know that everything in the universe including ourselves is made up of energy. The specific combination of different energies that make us tick can be called a "soul" or "spirit" if you like. That's up to you...

I can tell you one thing with certainty though, that if we (Humans) have this spirit or soul, then it doesn't separate us from apes; because every other living thing in the universe must have it too.

And lastly, if the only reason you don't rape or kill people is because there's supposedly accountability after death then there is something seriously wrong with you. I don't rape or kill people because it's wrong. It causes pain and suffering and I wouldn't want to have that done to me or someone I love. Not because there's some fucking Holy father with a white beard sitting on HIS fucking throne in heaven waiting to judge and punish me.


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## ViRedd (Oct 21, 2006)

skunkushybrid said:


> We are still evolving just as the universe is still expanding. Everything around us is growing and learning. I don't think there is room for any God.
> 
> I can't believe that people can deny something like evolution and then talk about magic and fairy tales as though they are the truth. *So Vi' you want proof before you believe that evolution is real, what proof do you need of a God? Don't you need to see it too? You'd rather believe a fable written 2,000 years ago that scientific fact.*
> 
> There is no God, no Devil, no angels. When you're dead you're dead, get over it.


All I'm pointing out is, that while the Evolutionists are telling the Creationists that they are taking their stand on faith alone, the Evolutionists are doing the exact same thing. Fossil evidence would be the proof of evolution. But then, if the fossil evidences were produced, the Creationists would just simply say: "Sooo ... who made the animal that the fossil came from?" Its a never ending argument. 

Oh, and I really don't believe that the Bible is a fable at all. It was written by folks who were on a higher spiritual plane. Unless one is on that same spiritual level, one cannot see the Bible's true spiritual meaning. In other words, the Scriptures are written in two languages ... one is seen through the nonbeliever's eyes and the other is seen *and understood* by those in The State of Grace. It is that understanding that leaves no doubt in the believer's mind and heart.

Vi


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## Doobie006 (Oct 21, 2006)

I like to point out one thing to you Vi. You're right. when you said:

"_But then, if the fossil evidences were produced, the Creationists would just simply say: "Sooo ... who made the animal that the fossil came from?" _

Scientists never said that Evolution disproves God. You see you can trace back evolution say starting from Humans all the way back to the "Big Bang"
begining of the universe, where all matter (wich we are made of) was created. We can't go further back than that. So the source of that creation is up for debate. You can say God is that source and no one can disprove that.

But regardless of wether God exists, Evolution does.

If you believe in God, you could say that God snaped his fingers and BOOOM!
started the evolutionary process wich continues to this day.


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## Doobie006 (Oct 21, 2006)

As for the Bible, you can say the same thing about any story.
Did you know for example that there are people who formed a religion based on George Lucas' "Star Wars" story. 

They believe he is on a different spiritual plane and see's things that most others can't. So they might believe that the A long time ago in Galaxy far far away existed a Luke Skywalker or a Darth Vadar. 

Most of us would laugh at them and not take them seriously. But try disproving that Luke Skywalker existed in a galaxy far far away.

Now that I think about it, you don't have to look very far, just look at Scientologists, their beliefs are based on stories by L. Ron Hubbard. (Science fiction writer). 

I think these people are delusional and I can't take them seriously, can you?


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## Doobie006 (Oct 21, 2006)

I apoligize for this really long post, but here's some fossil evidence.
The references can be found at this website Recent Developments in Paleoanthropology
These are only between 2001 and 2005, the website above goes back to 1997. (Too long to fit in one post)

Here is a selection of recent discoveries and other developments in paleoanthropology:

*Mar 2005:* A newly-discovered partial skeleton from Mille in Ethiopia is claimed to be the world's oldest bipedal hominid. The fossil is about 4 million years old and has not yet been classified or published in the scientific literature, though it is said to fall between _Ardipithecus ramidus_ and _Australopithecus afarensis_.
*Feb 2005:* Two skulls found near the Omo River in Ethiopia in 1967 by Richard Leakey and thought to be about 130,000 years old have now been dated at 195,000 years, the oldest date known for a modern human skull (McDougall et al. 2005). The Omo I skull is fully modern, while Omo II has some archaic features.
*Oct 2004:* A new species of hominid, _Homo floresiensis_, has been discovered on the Indonesian island of Flores. The most complete fossil is that of an almost complete skull and partial skeleton of a female who appears to be about a meter tall, with an astonishingly small brain size of 380cc. The _floresiensis_ fossils date from between 38,000 and 18,000 and are thought to be a dwarf form of _Homo erectus_. (Brown et al. 2004, Morwood et al. 2004, Lahr and Foley 2004)
*Jul 2004:* Fragments of a small _H. erectus_ skull, OL 45500, have been discovered at Olorgesailie in Kenya. The skull is an adult or near-adult, and about 0.95 million years old. The brain size can not be measured directly, but from the size of the bones the skull is similar in size to the two larger Dmanisi skulls (D2280 and D2282) and so probably in the 650-800 cc range, which is small for erectus. (Potts et al. 2004, Schwartz 2004) (See also a New Scientist article, Petite skull reopens human ancestry debate, and my comments)
*Mar 2004:* A new paper contains details of four new mtDNA sequences which have been retrieved from Neandertal fossils (Serre et al., 2004). This brings the number of known Neandertal mtDNA sequences to eight, all of which are closely related, and considerably different from all modern human mtDNA sequences.
*Mar 2004:* Some fragmentary fossils discovered in Ethiopia and dating between 5.2 and 5.8 million years old were originally assigned to a new subspecies, _Ardipithecus ramidus kadabba_. Following further study, the finders have decided that the differences between them and other fossils justify assigning them to a new species, _Ardipithecus kadabba_. (Haile-Selassie et al. 2004, Begun 2004)
*Jun 2003:* Three new skulls from Herto, Ethiopia, are the oldest known modern human fossils, at 160,000 yrs. The discoverers have assigned them to a new subspecies, _Homo sapiens idaltu_, and say that they are anatomically and chronologically intermediate between older archaic humans and more recent fully modern humans. Their age and anatomy is cited as strong evidence for the emergence of modern humans from Africa, and against the multiregional theory which argues that modern humans evolved in many places around the world. (White et al. 2003, Stringer 2003)
*Apr 2003:* A new study has claimed an age of over 4 million years for the australopithecine skeleton Little Foot from South Africa. If true, this would make it one of the oldest known australopithecine fossils. (Partridge et al. 2003)
*Feb 2003:* OH 65, a fossil from Olduvai Gorge consisting of an upper jaw and part of the lower face, may cause a reevaluation of the species _Homo habilis_. (Blumenschine et al. 2003, Tobias 2003)
*Jul 2002:* A fossil skull discovered in Chad, between 6 and 7 million years old, has been assigned to a new genus and species, _Sahelanthropus tchadensis_. The skull is small and apelike, but with some features associated with hominids. (Brunet et al. 2002, Wood 2002)
*Jul 2002:* The fossil skull D2700 discovered at Dmanisi, Georgia, is the smallest and most primitive hominid skull ever discovered outside of Africa, and although tentatively assigned to _Homo erectus_, it and two other skulls and three lower jaws appear in many ways to be intermediate between it and _H. habilis_. (Vekua et al. 2002, Balter and Gibbons 2002) These specimens have since been allocated to _Homo georgicus_ (Gabunia et al. 2002)
*Mar 2002:* According to its discoverers, a new _Homo erectus_ skull from Bouri in Ethiopia, about 1 million years old, indicates that _Homo ergaster_ should not be considered a separate species from _Homo erectus_ (Asfaw et al. 2002)
*Dec 2001:* A new study claims that _Homo erectus_ had rapid dental growth rates and had not yet developed the slow growth rates of modern humans. (Dean et al. 2001, Moggi-Cecchi 2001)
*Jul 2001:* A number of fragmentary fossils discovered between 1997 and 2001, and dating from 5.2 to 5.8 million years old, have been assigned to a new subspecies, _Ardipithecus ramidus kadabba_. (Haile-Selassie 2001) (P.S. this taxon was later named as a species, _Ar. kadabba_, in March 2004)
*Mar 2001:* A 3.6 million year old fossil from Kenya, WT 40000, has been assigned to a new species and genus, _Kenyanthropus platyops_. (Leakey et al 2001, Lieberman 2001).
*Feb 2001:* A French-Kenyan team has found a fossil claimed to be both considerably older than any other hominid (at 6 million years) and more advanced than the australopithecines. The fossil, originally nicknamed "Millennium Man", has been named _Orrorin tugenensis_, and is claimed by its finders to be a direct ancestor of humans, relegating the australopithecines to a side branch (Senut et al. 2001). These claims are being treated with caution so far (Aiello and Collard 2001).
*Jan 2001:* A fossil of a 3.4 million year old hominid, probably belonging to a child, has been discovered in Ethiopia.
*Jan 2001:* A new study has sequenced mitochondrial DNA from the anatomically modern Mungo Man fossil from Australia and found it to be outside the range of modern human mtDNA. The authors have claimed this is strong evidence for the multiregional model of human evolution, as opposed to the currently dominant Out Of Africa model (Adcock et al. 2001). However, other other experts have challenged this. Cooper et al. (2001) have published a rebuttal of this claim.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 21, 2006)

I guess those are ape fossils eh, The link between man and ape has not been proven yet. I believe in intelligent design. I have no proof just like the paleantologists have no proof that man was directly descended from an ape. These things are taken on faith. The ape believers have faith that they will find a direct link to man and the intelligent design people believe that a higher power created man. Who is right, I guess we'll have to wait untill we die to find out. It makes me feel good to believe that this life is not all you have. How fair would life be in a balanced universe if a starving child in africa only got the one shot at life that a king of Arabia got. It doesn't seem balanced to me. I know there is no convincing the non-believers which is a shame, because the knowledge (faith) that you will get another chance is very comforting to the mind. To think that this is all you get and fade to black is a very scary scenario to me. But if that is what you believe, I'm sorry for you!


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## Doobie006 (Oct 21, 2006)

First of all it has been proven and second those are not just ape fossils, they're early human fossils. Precisely the evidence, "the link" between the 2 species. 

You also have to understand that this "Link" is not one ape/man. It's a very long progression that happens very slowly. If you had every single fossil of every ape/man between us and the earliest apes (Billions of individual fossils) you would not be able to point to one specific creature and say that its strictly human or strictly ape. (Kind of like if you take a Marijuana Indica/sativa hybrid, you can't say its one or the other, because it has a characteristics of both).

And if you think that scientists make their Hypotheses based on faith, then your are misguided and don't understand science at all. Using the Scientific method is the exact opposite of faith. Scientists come to conclusions that are based on only observable hard evidence.

I'm glad that your beliefs of the "afterlife" make you feel good, you certainly have the right to your beliefs. I personally don't subscribe to your beliefs of the afterlife, but I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong. Scientists or philosophers have made some educated guesses of what is and isn't plausible, but still no one can say for sure what happens after death.

One thing I would like to ask you is; Why do you assume that life is fair and the universe is balanced? Just because it's a comforting notion does not make it true.

In fact you have beautifully illustrated the difference between scientists and people of faith; Scientists accept the truth wether its comforting or not...


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## arizonared (Oct 22, 2006)

Well put...however the scientific community is not pure as the driven snow. Plenty of researchers have so much "faith" in their own hypotheses that they see only the data that supports it and conveniently ignore, suppress, mimimize or otherwise fudge the results. But this usually gets exposed down the line when no one can duplicate results or someone rats. I love a good scientific scandal...man and his foibles.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 22, 2006)

Show me the exact link that ties man to ape, you cannot, as I cannot prove to you there is an after life. These are things beyond mans knowledge. Which is my point. If man was the most superior being in the universe, he would have answers to all questions, Not having them supposes there is a superior being that has, or what would be the point of trying to figure it out. Don't you think that is the goal of humanity, to figure out the un-answered questions. I'm sure I'll never get it all figured out, and I'm about as bright as the next guy. Even Einstein only used 12% of his grey matter, and look what he did. His theory on relativity has not been physically proven however, it is still a theory. I don't know how intelligent you are, I'll assume you are bright. Tell me something that hasn't been seen or done yet, be creative, I'll listen!


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## Doobie006 (Oct 22, 2006)

That's what I tried to explain to you in my last post. There is no one "exact" link between any two species, it doesn't work that way. It's more like a long chain with many many links each one slightly different than another.

One species can slowly transition in to another by changing just a little bit with each successive generation. After many generations those changes when compared to the ancestors are now noticeably different. If this process was allowed to go on for a long time, the offspring would have gone through so many changes that it would be considered a different species than its ancestors. Keep in mind however, that the original species does not just change into one other species, it braches out into many different species like a bush or marijuana plant. Each branch can become a different species.

One link on that chain, for example is Australopithecus. It's a species that has both characteristics of apes and humans. On this website Early Human Evolution:* Early Transitional Humans you can read about the other transitional humans.

_"If man was the most superior being in the universe, he would have answers to all questions, Not having them supposes there is a superior being that has"_

I don't believe man is the most superior being in the universe.
The universe is a pretty big place. There may be other civilizations out there who are more superior. Who knows. 

I don't see how not having the answers supposes that there is a superior being. You're assuming that humanity has a goal. That may not be the case.

There may not be a goal or point to humanity just what we make of it ourselves. I know that it's one of those discomforting notions but that doesn't mean it can't be true.

As for Einstein, They did in fact confirm his theory in 1919 I believe, four years after he published it. During a solar eclipse they observed that mass (in this case our sun) curved the fabric of space-time, the curvature acted like a lense, and made the planet Mercury appear in a different location.

One last thing I would like to point out. It always bothers me when people use the word theory without understanding its definition in terms of science. It always results in confusion and conflict.

In everyday language the word "theory" usually refers to someone's opinion that needs to be proven to be considered a fact. In science, Theories are not proven, they can only be tested and confirmed or falsified. The word "Theory", in science is an explanation or a model that is based on observable phenomena or already proven facts.
I.E.(The "theory of evolution" is an explanation of how Evolution works).

BTW I don't know if I could tell you something that hasn't been seen or done yet, but I am a Musician, so maybe I could play you something that hasn't been heard yet.


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## Doobie006 (Oct 22, 2006)

Posted by Arizonared

"_Well put...however the scientific community is not pure as the driven snow. Plenty of researchers have so much "faith" in their own hypotheses that they see only the data that supports it and conveniently ignore, suppress, mimimize or otherwise fudge the results. But this usually gets exposed down the line when no one can duplicate results or someone rats. I love a good scientific scandal...man and his foibles_."

That's what I love about science. Scientists have their work looked over by a review board. If the science is shit, then the scientist is discredited and his career is pretty much over. That's why most of them try very hard not to take things on faith but on hard evidence. Otherwise they are risking there reputation and career.


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 22, 2006)

I do believe that man is the supreme being. I'm not sure of the odds on a planet out there having the right conditions to support life but they are very high. Which means that even if these planets are able to sustain life that the odds of there being intelligent sentient life are even slimmer. 

I'm in a view of Nietchze's eventuality, that we are the supreme being and we will eventually colonize other planets. I also believe that we will be able to make uninhabitable planets inhabitable.

Philosophers wrote of our future when they wrote the bible. The bible tells us that it is we that are God, each and every one of us has the power to do good or evil. Only once mankind is pure will it step up to it's ultimate goal. Godhood is our eventuality.


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## Doobie006 (Oct 22, 2006)

As far as we know, we are supreme (at least for now). But I often stop and think about the vastness of the universe and I realize that it would be more strange if there wasn't intelligent life out there. 

I read allot about physics and astronomy, so I often come across figures like 100,000 light years (the diameter of a galaxy) and I just keep on reading. But if you stop and just think for a while about the magnitude of that number and take into account that there are billions of these galaxies, it really is mind blowing. I try to visualize it sometimes and every time it humbles me.

I definitely agree with your point of view. Although I believe those Ideas precluded the bible, the ancient egyptians believed their destiny was to reach Godhood. I think it is in our nature to pursue God status.

However, Our chances at success may be slim. It reminds me of something Carl Sagan once said. He was a physicist, and host of a television series "Cosmos", (coincidentally He was a marijuana smoker and a marijuana activist). Anyways He said that there may not be very many intelligent civilizations out there, the reason being that when a civilization achieves a certain amount of intelligence they also gain the power to destroy themselves and they do eventually destroy themselves.

So in our pursuit of Godhood, we may destroy ourselves in the process.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 22, 2006)

Maybe it takes a few lifetimes to reach that plateau, and I'll concede that in some views, those lifetimes are considered to be through offspring. I have a different "opinion" I believe each individual is passing through this life for a brief moment to experience what it takes to make him or her progress to the next level. Some may achieve the level of oneness with God like Ghandi or Jesus or Mohammed etc, and have been through many incarnations to achieve this. I believe that every once in a while those spirits are put on this earth to teach us to be better and love one another. Now if you believe in evolution and apemen, maybe that is where it started on this planet, but I believe (Opinion again) that a higher power instilled a spark of intelligence above the animal level by putting a soul in the (apeman) if you will and created human beings. Call this the Garden of eden or the awareness of apes. Just my opinion


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## Doobie006 (Oct 22, 2006)

That, I can definitely understand. Your beliefs remind me of the Buddhist philosophy. (I like buddhists they preach and practice compassion).

I understand where you're coming from though, In fact just a few years ago our philosophies weren't so different. But now I'm leaning more towards the idea that there may not be a purpose to life (Just an opinion). I know that it's not as pretty as some other beliefs, but thats kind of where I'm at right now.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 22, 2006)

Hopefully there will be an experience in your life that will give you some enlightenment, hang in there!


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## Doobie006 (Oct 22, 2006)

I had that experience a few times. 
But don't assume that my beliefs are dull and cynical.
Believe me I still see beauty in the world. It turns out that the universe is a very interesting place, stranger and more amazing than we could ever imagine. When you catch a glimpse of how it all works, it will leave you in awe.


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## ViRedd (Oct 22, 2006)

"When you catch a glimpse of how it all works, it will leave you in awe."

"Awe" is the place from which the authors of the Scriptures came from. 

Vi


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## Doobie006 (Oct 22, 2006)

I think they would have to, in order to write with such passion.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 22, 2006)

Many men have been gifted with spirituality, myself included. I don't presume to be any incarnation of any Diety, but I have been to the top of the mountain. There are quite a few clouds up there. obviously I have made if back safely to ground level. and grounded is what it is. Awe is a good word for the experience for any explanation would not do it justice. Here's hoping that everyone gets a chance to experience it! Even you V. Might change you a bit!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 23, 2006)

My question is this: Why is it that we can't accept that there is no creator? If we need to have been created then who or what created the creator?

We just are... If a creator can just Be... then why can't we?


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## Doobie006 (Oct 23, 2006)

Good point Skunk.
Regardless of wether the Universe began with the "Big Bang" or the "Big Bang" simply occurred in an eternal universe; There really is no need for a creator.


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## ViRedd (Oct 23, 2006)

medicinaluseonly said:


> Many men have been gifted with spirituality, myself included. I don't presume to be any incarnation of any Diety, but I have been to the top of the mountain. There are quite a few clouds up there. obviously I have made if back safely to ground level. and grounded is what it is. Awe is a good word for the experience for any explanation would not do it justice. *Here's hoping that everyone gets a chance to experience it! Even you V. Might change you a bit!*


If you would take the time to read my posts regarding spiritual matters, you would know that I've been there as well.

Vi


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 25, 2006)

For those of you whom don't believe, Maybe the Big Bang created the creator "I am that always was and will always be" Got to have some faith in something or theres no hope. To believe that we evolved from cosmic dust, with the power of "reason" Is beyond my comprehension, talk about imagination, and by the way, where did Imagination come from, dreams and paranormal experiences, I'd say there's more to humanity than a refinement of cosmic dust, Just my opinion!


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## arizonared (Oct 25, 2006)

Julian jaynes, professor from some big name college I can't recall at the moment, in his book "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" posits that the interplay/exchange/evolution between right and left brain gave rise to the current "conciousness" we posess whereby we are able to concieve of ourselves outside our current circumstances and imagine other possibilities. Kind of a theoretical history of the journey from the rooted, in-the-moment, immediacy of animal existance into the mixed blessing we live with today that is self awareness. Not only do we get to contemplate a perfect world and wonderful life but also the knowledge that our days are numbered and we are effectively only here for a very short time.


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 25, 2006)

...and what sort of imagination does it take to believe that when we die we are going to live forever?

The bible was written in code by ancient philosophers; the bible is telling of our destiny. It is we that are God.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 26, 2006)

And to what end are we to be God, to be by ourselves all alone and wonder where all the people went. I believe we all have God in us, and God is in everything. Some of us will figure it out in this life and others will not. I think the Not factor looms large. Where you come down on this issue is entirely subjective and no-one but you and God knows your destiny, most times not even you! I think I'll play it safe and believe in the "fairy tale" as some call it because what if I'm right and the "Fairy tale" haters are wrong, I'm goin to a good place and they're goin to Hell! It really is not that much of a burden to believe, and so what if your friends don't like it, keep it to yourself. Anyway, It's just my opinion. The main line here is to believe "faith"! It's up to you. your not believing will have no effect on me in the end!


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## arizonared (Oct 26, 2006)

yeah, and maybe there'll be a hundred virgins waiting for you there too. lol


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 26, 2006)

...and harps, clouds, casino's.

In truth i really wish there was a God. Unfortunately I know there isn't. One day we'll be able to pay to extend our lives, scientists have already isolated the gene responsible for aging, it's just a matter of time before they discover something to slow it down.

Death is a terrible thing, it is the end.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 26, 2006)

How can you know your version is anyway more valid than mine? they are both suppositions as none (except maybe Jesus) has come back from the dead. Fade to black has been countered with visions of a new experience, after near death experiences! The truth is No-one really knows what really happens when you die. There's your version of fade to black , and dozens of other versions, which one among us has the correct answer, None as we haven't died yet. You can life life to the fullest and be a holder of any position, I think the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a solid position to hold, and leave the death question up to the individuals Judgement> No-one has the high road here!


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## ViRedd (Oct 26, 2006)

Wow, Med ... great post. 

Now if only you could write as elequently on the subject of politics!

Vi

PS: That was a compliment.


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## big buddy (Oct 26, 2006)

the validity of any argument should be based on reason and fact, in this case faith is left to the side and hasn't a leg to stand on. you cant argue faith with fact or vice versa because the basis of each are a million miles apart.having said that- i believe in evolution because like it or not it has been proven. as a child i was very involved in the church, i didnt lose my faith until my teens, it was very hard to come to terms with at first but i felt truly reborn when i finally let go. but i found that faith followed me, not faith in a god who i knew didnt exist but faith in species. the realisation of my insignifigance was extremely humbling, the notion that we are all one entity was empowering- surely this couldn't be, had i had a non-religious "religious" experience?
i put it down to faith not being owned by religion or explained by science(yet!) i wont bore you anymore with this, i have basically paraphrased many years of questioning. lets heat this thing up!
alright believers- explain the dinosaurs? how old is our planet? have you heard of the genome project?
plenty more where that came from!


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## ViRedd (Oct 26, 2006)

"i found that faith followed me, not faith in a god who i knew didnt exist but faith in species. the realisation of my insignifigance was extremely humbling, the notion that we are all one entity was empowering- surely this couldn't be, had i had a non-religious "religious" experience?"

Personally, I honestly don't believe that a person needs "religion" in order to have a spiritual experience. And yes ... I'd say that you had a non-religious, "religious" experience. I've had the same experience as well. The realization that "we" are all one entity is quite remarkable. 

Vi


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 27, 2006)

medicinaluseonly said:


> How can you know your version is anyway more valid than mine? they are both suppositions as none (except maybe Jesus) has come back from the dead. Fade to black has been countered with visions of a new experience, after near death experiences! The truth is No-one really knows what really happens when you die. There's your version of fade to black , and dozens of other versions, which one among us has the correct answer, None as we haven't died yet. You can life life to the fullest and be a holder of any position, I think the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a solid position to hold, and leave the death question up to the individuals Judgement> No-one has the high road here!


That's like asking: When a tree falls down in the woods and there isn't anything around to hear it, does it still make a noise? There is an OBVIOUS answer, you can just never prove it.

Cavemen, well up until the pagans really, worshipped the Sun. Ah, I think I've stumbled upon something... As to why Americans are so religous... it's to do with your history... and the propaganda machine of your Government... American history is only half a millenia old... you're taught patriotism from a very early age... religion is a form of control.

You need to look at the history of the whole of religion. I KNOW there is no God. Just as I knew at a fairly young age there is no Father Christmas (Santa Claus) or Tooth Fairy. I was actually raised with this knowledge. I remember being at school, really young, and I used to think that I had to keep it to myself, that it was wrong not to believe... I'm older now and I will shout it from the rooftops. WAKE UP! There is no God. I'm not prepared to let people continue with this bollocks. It's out-dated and I will argue with anybody that says differently.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 27, 2006)

ViRedd said:


> Wow, Med ... great post.
> 
> Now if only you could write as elequently on the subject of politics!
> 
> ...


I've found that here on this forum there is no convincing anyone to change, so other than some obseqeues comment here or there , I'll not delve in the political arena. The effective changes rendered here would be too minimal to count in any election anyway, so to each his own. If people want to believe that George Bush is a great president, Fuck them, I'll not debate that assholes credibility any longer, fuck them will suffice! As far as all the other views like how many dead in Iraq, who the fuck really knows, we're spinning our wheels. Just like you said you didn't read Molly Ivens as she was Ann Coulter on steroids, theres no convincing someone whose mind is closed to any opposing views, so it ends up a cat fight, I'm way too not interested in cat fighting to continue in this manner, and to be scoffed at for not "proving" my point with someone elses rhetoric, that was getting old, so maybe every once in a while I'll chime in with some bullshit, just to see who's still here, but my cat fighting days are over, I guess in your way you can say you've won, congratulations!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 27, 2006)

ViRedd said:


> "i found that faith followed me, not faith in a god who i knew didnt exist but faith in species. the realisation of my insignifigance was extremely humbling, the notion that we are all one entity was empowering- surely this couldn't be, had i had a non-religious "religious" experience?"
> 
> Personally, I honestly don't believe that a person needs "religion" in order to have a spiritual experience. And yes ... I'd say that you had a non-religious, "religious" experience. I've had the same experience as well. The realization that "we" are all one entity is quite remarkable.
> 
> Vi


 I've had the same realisation, only I've also realised that we aren't there yet.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 27, 2006)

skunkushybrid said:


> I've had the same realisation, only I've also realised that we aren't there yet.


What makes you thunk that? Wars And such, political situations around the globe, Famine , poverty, Yup, there are a few indicators, I guess there is enough sand for the head burriers though, think positive!


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## Doobie006 (Oct 28, 2006)

big buddy said:


> the validity of any argument should be based on reason and fact, in this case faith is left to the side and hasn't a leg to stand on. you cant argue faith with fact or vice versa because the basis of each are a million miles apart.having said that- i believe in evolution because like it or not it has been proven. as a child i was very involved in the church, i didnt lose my faith until my teens, it was very hard to come to terms with at first but i felt truly reborn when i finally let go. but i found that faith followed me, not faith in a god who i knew didnt exist but faith in species. the realisation of my insignifigance was extremely humbling, the notion that we are all one entity was empowering- surely this couldn't be, had i had a non-religious "religious" experience?
> i put it down to faith not being owned by religion or explained by science(yet!) i wont bore you anymore with this, i have basically paraphrased many years of questioning. lets heat this thing up!
> alright believers- explain the dinosaurs? how old is our planet? have you heard of the genome project?
> plenty more where that came from!


Hey Big Buddy,
I believe we shared very similar experiences. I too felt reborn when I let go of the beliefs that I was programed with as a child. I was liberated from my ignorance. I came into the realization that I didn't need fairy tales to tell me that there's more to life than what we experience. All one has to do is look at the facts, and it becomes clear that reality is stranger and far more amazing than any fairy tale humanity has came up with.


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## Doobie006 (Oct 28, 2006)

The realization that "we" are all one entity is quite remarkable. 

Vi

We are after all not inhabitants of the universe, We ARE the universe. We are made up of it and vice versa. We are in fact, a way for the universe to know itself.


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 28, 2006)

That's how I felt too. I likened it (in a post on my religion thread) to being reborn. I know exactly what you are talking about. What I meant by us not being there yet was that we have not yet achieved Godhood and ergo total oneness.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 28, 2006)

For one that doesn't believe in God, how could you achieve "Godness"? If you believe in "Godness", you must believe in God, whatever form you see him as. It doesn't make sense to say I don't believe in God But I might reach "Godness"! Either way I'd say we're all a long way from any "Godness" showing up on this planet without some cataclysmic occurence. My only suggestion is to try and live life to the best of our ability and not harm another human being, be generous and Kind, and don't take any wooden nickles!


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 28, 2006)

I believe that it is man that will be God, not that one already exists.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 28, 2006)

skunkushybrid said:


> I believe that it is man that will be God, not that one already exists.


Now thats an Ego for you, man invents God! There was a philosopher, can't recall his name, That said "If there was no God, Man would invent one", I guess he wasn't lying. My dear friend skunky, I'm afraid it'll be way past our lifetimes before Man and God are one. Can you think of a fraction so small to equate man to God, I'd run out of pages before I could add all the zeros to that fraction. Man has the spirituality inherant in him to get there, but at this time and space it is way too unrefined, we're talking maximum- minimum, this is the war planet. You have to get over war in order to move on. If you still have hate in your heart, My philosophy says you keep coming back untill you can break free of it. I'm getting real sick of war, but don't know whether I've gotten over it yet or not, I've still got some real hate issues!


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## ViRedd (Oct 28, 2006)

When the ego dies, God fills the void.

Vi


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## skunkushybrid (Oct 29, 2006)

God is our future not our present. You guys are still continuing to misinterpret the bible's real message. The bible was written by philosophers... a little like the laughable Nostradamus... anybody can philosophise on the evolution of man, and as history usually repeats itself over and over again it becomes relatively easy to predict the future especially when you do it in parables. Astrologers do it all the time, Tarot Readers, you name it...

True understanding of who and what we really are is the only way forward for man. To continue believing in a God and eternal life in heaven is really not needed anymore. We know right from wrong, the sooner we start being real the better.


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## medicinaluseonly (Oct 29, 2006)

I'm pretty sure most of us know right from wrong (there are Psychos), It's in the doing where the problem lies!


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Well it seems there is a challenger. Someone that believes aliens visit earth all the time to kidnap people and experiment on them. I had to dig quite deep to find this thread, and although the chat about aliens died pretty quickly, it seems there is someone on this site that can reinvigorate it.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Well it seems there is a challenger. Someone that believes aliens visit earth all the time to kidnap people and experiment on them. I had to dig quite deep to find this thread, and although the chat about aliens died pretty quickly, it seems there is someone on this site that can reinvigorate it.


That someone is me.



skunkushybrid said:


> War and sickness are the only two I can come up with.


This is where you apply the human thought process. The only reasons you can think of are irrelevant to an alien civilization. They have things going on we could never begin to understand. Who knows why they do what they do.



skunkushybrid said:


> If WE found another planet out there and the inhabitants were much less advanced, what do you think we would do?Do you think we might strip that planet of all it's resources to feed our technological advancements? If the inhabitants fought back do you think we'd destroy them?


Absolutely positively yes to all of those, IF the U.S. government has anything to do with it. You see what they do here on our own planet. They would go stark raving mad with a newly discovered, easily manipulated race of whatevers. If they fought back then they would annhialate them just like they did the Native Americans so long ago when "The New World" was discovered on the other side of the ocean.



skunkushybrid said:


> You want to see aliens? look no further than our own planet and the creatures that live within it. Ants, sharks, birds etc, are these not what life on other planets could be like? In other words, not intelligent enough to see past their next meal


These are not aliens when they are on our planet, however I do not see why there could not be these same things on other planets. It is said that most alien species resemble life on Earth.



skunkushybrid said:


> The odds of there being life even close to our galaxy are extremely high. Let alone talking about life intelligent enough to travel millions of light years just to kidnap a few people for pointless experiments


This is the most narrow minded statement I have ever heard. How do you know what is possible within our own galaxy? The Milky Way houses not just our solar system, but at least 200 billion more stars, and you're saying there is no way there is life there other than us? Are you sure you're not holed up in Texas somewhere with President Bush and his right wing religous fanatics? That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

How do you know how far they travel to get here? For all we know they may be coming from Mars. There have been hundreds of pictures recently released of the surface of Mars showing many things that are not natural. Google "Mars Anomales" and see for yourself. You think the experiments are pointless. You assume they travel here just for shits and giggles? I doubt that they would abduct people and do whatever they do if their was no point. Maybe they need something from us, who knows. I don't claim to have all these answers, I just believe that they have been here and continue to come here.



skunkushybrid said:


> To travel those sort of distances they would need to use worm holes, stabilised worm holes; as to create something like this takes the power equivilent to something like what our sun produces.


Assuming that they are traveling great distances, how do you know what they need to do? Now you are applying human limitations to them. Maybe they know something we haven't figured out yet about propulsion. Like I said before, they probably have a couple billion, or million, or thousand years on us in terms of evolution. Either way, they obviously 
(in my opinion) are getting here somehow.



skunkushybrid said:


> Also why have people's accounts of these aliens changed to match movie depictions of these aliens? In the 1950's it was little green men that look like something out of a 50's sci fi movie, 60's again images followed what people were seeing in the movies. now we've got the modernised aliens, how come nobody gets kidnapped by little green men anymore?


The very first reported case of abduction was Sep. 19 1961 by Betty and Barney Hill. They described their abductors as "Small beings with whitish skin and cat like eyes". There have never been ANY reports of abductions by "little green men". That was 1950's Hollywood slang. Are you that old? Do your homework before blurting statements.

mall beings with whitish skin and large cat-like eyes all beings with whitish skin and large cat-like eyes


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## Zekedogg (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> That someone is me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Oh Snap, say WORD again!!!


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## krime13 (May 22, 2007)

Earth is on the edge of milky way and usualy avoided by most space travelers like some dangerous junk yard,LOL, no seriously, once our television waves will reach the center of our galaxy we should fully expect a fuu blown erradication attempt by a far more superior race...wwho would want us as neghbors anyway?


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

OK it would't let me type anymore in the last box.



skunkushybrid said:


> Of course a couple of hundred thousand people can be wrong. People are idiots, always will be.


One report in the last 50 yrs---hoax or attention seeker, 10 reports in the last 50 yrs---still not believeable, 100 reports in the last 50 yrs---getting interesting, but there have been over 750 reports since March of THIS YEAR ALONE of UFO sightings in just the US. Add that to all the reports over the last 50 yrs, and with all the reported abductions, and I'm sure you will get some kind of astronomical number. Now your telling me that each and everyone of these people are seeing things that are not there, crazy, or whatever? I'm sure there are quite a few loons in there, but not every single one of these reports can be explained away so easily. Individual people are smart, the public as a whole is completely moronic, and it is people like you who influence this general way of thinking.


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## krime13 (May 22, 2007)

For now alliens is big buisness , I would assume that the most abductees just whant to jump on the band vagon


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

See that is the thing. I'm not saying they come here for the sole purpose of abducting people. Yes, there probably are people out there trying to jump on the band wagon, but what about back in the day when there was no bandwagon? You think that Betty and Barney Hill just woke up on Sep 19, 1961 and said "Hey--Lets make up this story about how we got taken into a UFO and probed by aliens." I doubt that seeing as how there was no talk of that sort of thing back then. People who even mentioned the word UFO were criticised beyond belief.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> No, although Aliens could well have been responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs. Cro Magnon did not arrive on the Earth until 60, 000, 000 years after the dinosaurs were wiped out. The time scale is too large. Also for there to be two planets in the same galaxy at the same time with intelligent life is hard to accept.
> 
> Cro-Magnon man only arrived around 65, 000 years ago, coinciding with the warming of the last ice age.
> 
> ...


 
So I never responded to this either.

You are probably right about the time line, I can't argue with you about that as I have not fully researched it.

Why is it so hard to accept that there could be two planets at the same time with life? Once again, Google "Mars anomales" and see what comes up. I am absolutely positive there is life on Mars at this very moment.

Maybe the Neanderthals were sent away as bastards because they were the aliens first attempt at creating man, and they did not like the results.

The fact that you even wrote this story is what led me to believe that you have an open mind about this subject. Are you afraid of what really might be out there, yet at the same time intrigued? I have to agree with you on the fact that most people involved in this subject are complete fruitcakes, but I have never personally been abducted, nor can I say I have actually seen a UFO that I could prove, but I still believe in them nonetheless. Like previousley stated by myself and someone in the other thread, there is more proof that they exist than not.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> You have to ignore me because you cannot back yourself up. you want me on your alien fruitcake site so you can get all you little pissant buddies to join in along with you. Maybe because you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
> 
> You are afraid of my questions because you have no answers for them. you say you believe, but you have no reasoning for this belief except other people's bullshit stories. Unless, you have one of your own of course, lol.
> 
> You don't have to prove shit to me, no. As there is nothing for you to prove. We both know you're full of shit.


Now for this one.

I was going to ignore you because you are very belligerant in your posts. You blurt your opinion and expect that everyone else is assenine for not believing the same thing. I asked you to the other site so we could do this, but you have provided a thread to do so in, so disregard the previous invitation.

I am not afraid of your questions, and I can answer just about anything you throw at me. If I cannot then I will say so. I don't pretend to know about things.

There is plenty to prove. I think that it is you sir, who is full of shit.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> OK it would't let me type anymore in the last box.
> 
> 
> 
> One report in the last 50 yrs---hoax or attention seeker, 10 reports in the last 50 yrs---still not believeable, 100 reports in the last 50 yrs---getting interesting, but there have been over 750 reports since March of THIS YEAR ALONE of UFO sightings in just the US. Add that to all the reports over the last 50 yrs, and with all the reported abductions, and I'm sure you will get some kind of astronomical number. Now your telling me that each and everyone of these people are seeing things that are not there, crazy, or whatever? I'm sure there are quite a few loons in there, but not every single one of these reports can be explained away so easily. Individual people are smart, the public as a whole is completely moronic, and it is people like you who influence this general way of thinking.


Ok. first off let me thank you for bringing your perspective to the table, and I must do the dad thing until I can reply to your whole post. I've quoted this one first as it is the easiest to respond to.

How many people see jesus every year? Or come to that, Elvis?

Maybe half of the people that claim alien encounters are loonies. The other half are either mistaken or believe in aliens so much that they just HAVE to see one. It's like going to a graveyard and looking for a ghost. Strain your eyes and you will make shapes in the darkness. Have a friend with you with similar atmosphere and bingo! 2 guys seeing the same ghost.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> How many people see jesus every year? Or come to that, Elvis?


 
Nowhere close to the amount of UFO sightings. I agree some people see what they want, but not all of them. Even ex-president Jimmy Carter reported seeing a UFO. He said "It was the strangest thing I have ever seen."


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> The very first reported case of abduction was Sep. 19 1961 by Betty and Barney Hill. They described their abductors as "Small beings with whitish skin and cat like eyes". There have never been ANY reports of abductions by "little green men". That was 1950's Hollywood slang. Are you that old? Do your homework before blurting statements.
> 
> mall beings with whitish skin and large cat-like eyes all beings with whitish skin and l


I have done my homework. I've studied this folklore at some length. All manner of creatures have been seen. This is what I've found after a quick search (it has been some years since I researched this subject, at the time I even looked at pic's of some of these supposed aliens, and a link was made between what people were describing and the movies, this was in the library). 


There are however cultural differences in perception of these reported incidents. The frightening "terror abduction" experience is reported mainly in the USA, while in the rest of the world, the ET encounters are said to be largely benevolent -- this apparent incongruity perhaps raising a question as to the phenomenon's origins.
As noted above, the so-called Greys are most popularly associated with abduction reports. Again, however, this seems to be a North American paradigm best-known since the 1980s. On the contrary, some researchers (such as Kevin D. Randle in his 1997 book, _Faces Of The Visitors: An Illustrated Reference To Alien Contact_) have noted a vast variety of alleged creatures have been reported in abduction accounts worldwide, with some of the alleged creatures not even described as humanoid.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> See that is the thing. I'm not saying they come here for the sole purpose of abducting people. Yes, there probably are people out there trying to jump on the band wagon, but what about back in the day when there was no bandwagon? You think that Betty and Barney Hill just woke up on Sep 19, 1961 and said "Hey--Lets make up this story about how we got taken into a UFO and probed by aliens." I doubt that seeing as how there was no talk of that sort of thing back then. People who even mentioned the word UFO were criticised beyond belief.


The first sightings of ufo's go way back before 1961. There was a cave drawing found in china of some ufo's. The drawing is said to be around 40, 000 years old. Therefore making the sightings since caveman days like I first said.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Now for this one.
> 
> I was going to ignore you because you are very belligerant in your posts. You blurt your opinion and expect that everyone else is assenine for not believing the same thing. I asked you to the other site so we could do this, but you have provided a thread to do so in, so disregard the previous invitation.
> 
> ...


Belligerant maybe, but as for believing everybody to be asinine that is completely untrue... at least, as a generalisation. The thread was already provided, I started this back in september 06.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> I have done my homework. I've studied this folklore at some length. All manner of creatures have been seen. This is what I've found after a quick search (it has been some years since I researched this subject, at the time I even looked at pic's of some of these supposed aliens, and a link was made between what people were describing and the movies, this was in the library).
> 
> 
> There are however cultural differences in perception of these reported incidents. The frightening "terror abduction" experience is reported mainly in the USA, while in the rest of the world, the ET encounters are said to be largely benevolent -- this apparent incongruity perhaps raising a question as to the phenomenon's origins.
> As noted above, the so-called Greys are most popularly associated with abduction reports. Again, however, this seems to be a North American paradigm best-known since the 1980s. On the contrary, some researchers (such as Kevin D. Randle in his 1997 book, _Faces Of The Visitors: An Illustrated Reference To Alien Contact_) have noted a vast variety of alleged creatures have been reported in abduction accounts worldwide, with some of the alleged creatures not even described as humanoid.


 
This still does not change the fact that the first reported abduction case was made on Sep. 19 1961, and they reported the aliens as having "whitish skin and cat like eyes" If all you are going to do is copy and paste website info, I can do that too. We will be here forever. This also supports my previous statement that there are more than one type of aliens visiting us.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> The first sightings of ufo's go way back before 1961. There was a cave drawing found in china of some ufo's. The drawing is said to be around 40, 000 years old. Therefore making the sightings since caveman days like I first said.


Previous thread:



skunkushybrid said:


> There is no real proof about ufo's being drawn by cavemen.


 
You said in the other thread that there was no proof of cavemen drawing pictures of UFO's. Now you are saying there is? I'm a little confused on YOUR perspective here. Also I said that was the first reported ABDUCTION. The sightings have been happening since the beginning of recorded history.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> My proof? My proof is my steadfast logic. Yours is a bunch of freaks that tell bullshit stories.


This is why I say you think people are assenine for believing the contrary.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> This still does not change the fact that the first reported abduction case was made on Sep. 19 1961, and they reported the aliens as having "whitish skin and cat like eyes" If all you are going to do is copy and paste website info, I can do that too. We will be here forever. This also supports my previous statement that there are more than one type of aliens visiting us.


I copied and pasted as I needed to find something to support my claim that the alien encounters have changed to match modern perspectives. You certainly didn't accept it at face value.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Previous thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is no real proof. Although the story is still out there.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> This is why I say you think people are assenine for believing the contrary.


I said generally. Towards idiots, yes I am fucking asinine.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

Like I said I can copy and paste numerous things to support my claims as well. I accept everything at face value, and do not disagree with the article or whatever it is. I think the description mainly applies to the "fruitcake" reports as they have changed with the times. All-in-all though this article really supports us both.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> This also supports my previous statement that there are more than one type of aliens visiting us.


Right, so now we are being visited by different types of Aliens that only so many hundred people see every month.

If they are so powerful, why do they need to hide? The world doesn't all sleep at once... what about these aliens, do they ever get kidnapped by more superior aliens. They must. So these aliens just go around kidnapping each other for cruel and diverse experiments? Even as fiction that story would be unbelievable, there's no plot, no reason, no meaning...

So, these aliens that look like us and behave like us (according to these reports that you whole heartedly believe), yet they haven't advanced in the same way?

Different types of aliens, all with the same ethos? Not one of them is aggressive? Or maybe there's some type of inter galactic battle going on and our masters (the greys) are protecting us? Different types, as in more than two? Now you are just being ridiculous.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> There is no real proof. Although the story is still out there.


There is no real proof of cavemen (per say) that drew aliens on the cave walls, but there are numerous drawings in Egypt, South America, and China that support the fact that aliens have been coming here for some time. Since we are copying and pasting and all, here you go:

 In 1938, archeologist Chi Pu Tei discovered a strange alignment of graves in the Baian Kara Ula Mountains, near the Sino-Tibetan border. Also found were cave drawings illustrating beings wearing helmets, the stars, sun and moon. There were also reports of the discovery of small, frail skeletons with unusually large skulls. In 1962, a strange record-like disk found among the graves was translated by professor Tsum Um Nui. The translation tells an eerie tale of how a group of beings crash landed on the third planet in this star system approximately twelve thousand years ago. Repairs to their craft were appearently unsuccessful and so attempts were made to befriend the local mountain tribes. But instead, (out of fear) the beings were hunted down and killed for their nonhuman appearance. 


The relevance of this story is the time in which the event was recorded. It was long before the influence of the government, tv and the media could corrupt information. They wrote simply what occured at the sight, for they had no knowledge we would find it centuries later. What reason would there be for the recording of an event that never happened, in a time when long distance communication would have been completely unheard of, let alone understood? The events described on the disk were more then likely recorded as best they understood of the circumstances. Here you will find a more detailed account of the event: Dropas Crash: 12,000 BC .


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Like I said I can copy and paste numerous things to support my claims as well. I accept everything at face value, and do not disagree with the article or whatever it is. I think the description mainly applies to the "fruitcake" reports as they have changed with the times. All-in-all though this article really supports us both.


You didn't believe me when I said that people's depictions of these aliens has changed. You even told me to do my homework. I needed a different voice to my own to prove it to you as you wasn't listening to mine.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> There is no real proof of cavemen (per say) that drew aliens on the cave walls, but there are numerous drawings in Egypt, South America, and China that support the fact that aliens have been coming here for some time. Since we are copying and pasting and all, here you go:
> 
> In 1938, archeologist Chi Pu Tei discovered a strange alignment of graves in the Baian Kara Ula Mountains, near the Sino-Tibetan border. Also found were cave drawings illustrating beings wearing helmets, the stars, sun and moon. There were also reports of the discovery of small, frail skeletons with unusually large skulls. In 1962, a strange record-like disk found among the graves was translated by professor Tsum Um Nui. The translation tells an eerie tale of how a group of beings crash landed on the third planet in this star system approximately twelve thousand years ago. Repairs to their craft were appearently unsuccessful and so attempts were made to befriend the local mountain tribes. But instead, (out of fear) the beings were hunted down and killed for their nonhuman appearance.
> 
> ...


So some guy has translated alien transcript? In 1962? LOL.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Right, so now we are being visited by different types of Aliens that only so many hundred people see every month.
> 
> If they are so powerful, why do they need to hide? The world doesn't all sleep at once... what about these aliens, do they ever get kidnapped by more superior aliens. They must. So these aliens just go around kidnapping each other for cruel and diverse experiments? Even as fiction that story would be unbelievable, there's no plot, no reason, no meaning...
> 
> ...


They hide to keep us ignorant and confused, or possibly to avoid being killed.I am not the only one claiming there are several types. The article you posted says the same thing I do. 

As far as aliens abducting aliens.... I have no fucking clue. I can only speak as to what is reported on Earth. I have never been to the aliens planet, nor have I ever met one. Now it is you who is being ridiculous. I have no idea if they themselves are being abducted. You say no reason or meaning? Once again, they are not human. Your thought process does not apply to them.

Apparently they have advanced way beyond us. Who knows how they did it, or how long it took them.

Define "ethos" and I will respond to the last part.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> You didn't believe me when I said that people's depictions of these aliens has changed. You even told me to do my homework. I needed a different voice to my own to prove it to you as you wasn't listening to mine.


 I never said I agreed or disagreed. I simply stated that the first reported abductees described the "grays" as their captors. The "grays" did not become very popular until the 80's, as your article states.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> So some guy has translated alien transcript? In 1962? LOL.


 
So when I copy and paste something it is a joke? Typical narrow minded point of view. I also see that you have nothing else to say about any other part of it.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

Heres some more copy and paste for you:


Interpretations of _Babylonian_ and _Sumerian_ writings speak of how man's early history was greatly influenced by visitors from the twelth planet in our solar system. Ancient Sumerians called this planet _Nibiru_, while the Babylonians refer to it as _Marduk_. This implies to some that our solar system may contain a tenth planet, since the Sumerians counted the sun and moon also as heavenly bodies. In 1983, the _Washington Post_ News Service reported, "A heavenly body, possibly as large as the giant planet Jupiter and possibly so close to earth that it might be part of this solar system, has been found in the direction of the constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope called the _Infrared Astronomical Observatory_". 


Zecharia Sitchen is one of less than 200 persons able to read the Sumerian language. He is the author of _The Earth Chronicles_ and is responsible for much of the information available today regarding ancient Summerian text and Nibiru, also referred to as _Planet X_. His theories, derived from these ancient translations, state that this tenth planet came into our solar system about four billion years ago, demolishing another planet, which created the asteroid belt beyond Mars. Sitchen goes on to tell a tale of alien civil war and of colonization efforts on earth to include the creation of modern man. So it goes, a ruler named _Alalu_ was overthrown and fled from _Nibiru_ during a time when the planet was losing it's atmosphere and was dying. Gold found on earth was believed to be able to be used to stabilize the tenth planet. Hardships of the mining operations caused a revolt among the aliens and so they created "modern man", through the genetic manipulation of early humans, to provide labor. At some point, although with great disapproval, some aliens interbred with humans. Sitchen also states that the offspring of these human/alien affairs, are the _Nephilim_ mentioned in Genesis 6:4 (some bible translators have concluded that the word Nephilim "designates ancient heroes who are the product of sexual union of heavenly beings and human women"). Then, around thirteen thousand years ago, the aliens realized that the return of their home world would cause widespread floods and tidal waves on earth. It was then decided to keep this from the humans and allow them to face the coming cataclysm. One alien broke the agreement and warned the human _Noah_ of the impending disaster to come. 


Native Americans tell a story of remarkable similarities, about the history of man. This story has its start on August 13, 1947, not long after the famous _Roswell_ crash. Six Native Americans supposedly, came upon a smoldering metallic object in the New Mexico desert. Inside was an injured but very much alive alien being. For fear of the military's capture of the being, they decided to take the being home to care for it. To their amazement, the being was able to communicate images through the use of a small crystal device. Robert Morning Sky, grandson of one of the rescuers, tells the message of the being known to them as the "Star Elder". He claims that the beings name was Bak'Ti and that he has pieced together parts of man's early history from the teachings of the Star Elder. He states that the "Star People" have always been here, since the earth was a barren rock. It was indicated that there had been much involvement with the human species, some benevolent, some not, throughout our evolution. According to Morning Sky's _Terra Papers_, humans were created through DNA manipulation, to be used as workers for alien mining operations on earth. At one point, an alien leader and brother competed for control of earth and so the leader mixed some of his own DNA into the gene pool, making the humans his children, so to speak. Other DNA was introduced from a bird-like race of high emotions and soulfulness. Over time, two very different humans emerged. One, a docile, easily controlled human, and an emotional and intelligent human, soon to develop independent will. At one point, a fraction of aliens tried to destroy the willful humans by casting them into the wilderness to die and later to face the "Great Floods". However, the creator/leader managed to save a group of humans. Later, an alien leader named _Ra_, (perhaps the ancient sun god of the Egyptians) sought to eliminate all evidence of man's true history, in an effort to keep the humans ignorant and controllable. But, it is said that Ra lost to an alien race descended from reptiles, which might be known today as the "Greys" or perhaps the reptilians you sometimes hear about.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> So when I copy and paste something it is a joke? Typical narrow minded point of view. I also see that you have nothing else to say about any other part of it.


The joke is what I said it was. some guy translating alien transcript. 

They are so different to us they even use written language. Everything you say points to similarities to ourselves... 

Also when I mentioned about looking no further than Earth to study what aliens MIGHT be like I meant behaviourally. All life on our planet acts in much the same way, yet out of all the billions of life forms on this planet we are the only one sentient enough to travel into space.

I've never said that I don't believe aliens are out there, I just know that it would be very unlikely that they'll have the intelligence to travel into space. Then if they did, the culture would be so far away from our own that us ever meeting for the next 10, 000, 000 or so years is very unlikely.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> I never said I agreed or disagreed. I simply stated that the first reported abductees described the "grays" as their captors. The "grays" did not become very popular until the 80's, as your article states.


Why are you speech-marking 'grays'? In my country it spelt 'grey'.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Why are you speech-marking 'grays'? In my country it spelt 'grey'.


I quote the word to define exactly what I am talking about. Kinda like when you are talking to someone and use your fingers as quotation marks. Grey, Gray----- whatever.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> The joke is what I said it was. some guy translating alien transcript.
> 
> They are so different to us they even use written language. Everything you say points to similarities to ourselves...
> 
> ...


OK I get the joke, it is sorta funny if you think about it; but whos to say that the Egyptian Heiroglyphics are not the exact same thing? There are people supposedly translating that all the time.

I do not disagree with anything in the second paragraph.

Who knows what they are capable of? Not you or I, only they know. I guess this is where we disagree the most. You say they cannot travel that far,but like I said before, what if they are coming from right here in our own solar system?


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> They hide to keep us ignorant and confused, or possibly to avoid being killed.I am not the only one claiming there are several types. The article you posted says the same thing I do.
> 
> As far as aliens abducting aliens.... I have no fucking clue. I can only speak as to what is reported on Earth. I have never been to the aliens planet, nor have I ever met one. Now it is you who is being ridiculous. I have no idea if they themselves are being abducted. You say no reason or meaning? Once again, they are not human. Your thought process does not apply to them.
> 
> ...


ethos: the spirit or attitudes of a race of people.

So, they hide to avoid being seen, yet they do not mind letting their abductees go? Are they so in tune with our society? 

Afraid of being killed? They're more advanced than us, they'd have no need to be afraid. They travel to our planet undetected with technologies. Technology follows a certain path... you don't just invent the aeroplane. Technology also has an evolutionary path. 

I'm not applying human thought processes as I have stated before, I'm applying the law of nature. There are billions of lifeforms on our planet, yet we are the only one capable of going into space. If you think of the billions of lifeforms on this planet then it is logical to assume that this pattern is followed (although very sporadically) throughout the universe.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> OK I get the joke, it is sorta funny if you think about it; but whos to say that the Egyptian Heiroglyphics are not the exact same thing? There are people supposedly translating that all the time.quote]
> 
> The reason for the translation of the egyptian heiroglyphics is because of a man called Napoleon, his conquests in Africa and the consequential discovery of the rosetta stone.
> 
> Which had two languages on it, one the heiroglyphs and the other ancient greek. Both said the same thing, and the heiroglyphs were decoded.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Who knows what they are capable of? Not you or I, only they know. I guess this is where we disagree the most. You say they cannot travel that far,but like I said before, what if they are coming from right here in our own solar system?


Ok. I realise that we don't know enough about our own solar system to know for definite, but don't you think we would have noticed by now if we were being visited? I mean, the people that claim to have seen them, say a thousand a month, this is still nowhere near enough. WHy are they only visible to some people and not to others? Why do they hide, then suddenly decide they don't need to hide after all?

I know there are intelligent beings out there, common sense tells me that. yet it also tells me that we haven't met them yet. Unless, as someone said, we were the original aliens and our old planet (maybe mars) was destroyed through the building of society and the rise of technology. I think that all we'll find on mars is bones. I don't doubt for a second that mars was once a habitated planet.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> ethos: the spirit or attitudes of a race of people.
> 
> So, they hide to avoid being seen, yet they do not mind letting their abductees go? Are they so in tune with our society?
> 
> ...


Many abductees do not remember their experience until much much later. This is what researchers describe as "lost time". I believe they are very in tune with our society as they probably created us.

Of course they would be killed if captured. Think about it as us being a herd of cattle and them being the ranchers. Do the ranchers go out into the cow field and live there with the cattle? Do they proclaim there presence on a daily basis and make sure the cattle know who they are and what they are there for? No--they simply go pluck the cattle as needed. No need to explain anything to the dumb ass cows. They serve their purpose well. Don't you think that if the cattle knew why we came for them that they would try to stop us by hurting us in some way?

You are applying the laws of nature as you understand them. Who knows what evolutionary pattern has taken effect on another planet.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> The reason for the translation of the egyptian heiroglyphics is because of a man called Napoleon, his conquests in Africa and the consequential discovery of the rosetta stone.
> 
> Which had two languages on it, one the heiroglyphs and the other ancient greek. Both said the same thing, and the heiroglyphs were decoded.


How do you know that the writings on the disc were not Egyptian Heiroglyphs, or should I say that Egyptian Heiroglyphs are not an alien language?


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Many abductees do not remember their experience until much much later. This is what researchers describe as "lost time". i believe they are very in tune with our society as they probably created us.
> 
> Of course they would be killed if captured. Think about it as us being a herd of cattle and them being the ranchers. Do the ranchers go out into the cow field and live there with the cattle? Do they proclaim there presence on a daily basis and make sure the cattle know who they are and what they are there for? No--they simply go pluck the cattle as needed. No need to explain anything to the dumb ass cows. They serve their purpose well. Don't you think that if the cattle knew why we came for them that they would try to stop us by hurting us in some way?
> 
> You are applying the laws of nature as you understand them. Who knows what evolutionary pattern has taken effect on another planet.


The aliens don't live with us... but the ranchers certainly don't hide from the cattle. Yes the ranchers are there on a daily basis, herding the cattle into different fields for grazing, shit like that. 

You think animals don't recognise death? Actually, you think we're different to animals? Animals understand far more than you give them credit for. Ask anybody that's actually worked in an abbatoir. They know alright.

I cannot follow your logic. A bunch of cows could not defeat the human race, this is why we do not need to hide. So, you're saying we could destroy these aliens?

Why then do they release people, when if all we are is cattle? Why risk letting us go so that we can remember it and tell everybody? If they created us why would they need to experiment on us? If we can destroy them why are their space crafts visible sometimes? Why are they only visible to a couple of people when there have been reports of ufo's over cities with large populations?

If Aliens have ever been involved with this planet then you're probably right they are still here. It is us, and the aliens are our ancestors.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Ok. I realise that we don't know enough about our own solar system to know for definite, but don't you think we would have noticed by now if we were being visited? I mean, the people that claim to have seen them, say a thousand a month, this is still nowhere near enough. WHy are they only visible to some people and not to others? Why do they hide, then suddenly decide they don't need to hide after all?
> 
> I know there are intelligent beings out there, common sense tells me that. yet it also tells me that we haven't met them yet. Unless, as someone said, we were the original aliens and our old planet (maybe mars) was destroyed through the building of society and the rise of technology. I think that all we'll find on mars is bones. I don't doubt for a second that mars was once a habitated planet.


 
Thats the thing! Millions of people worldwide have noticed! Certain people notice because they are not closed minded. As for the others--it's not that they don't notice, it's that they refuse to believe, so they do not bother to look. Maybe the abductees are people who are open minded and the aliens are trying to reveal themselves the best way they know how; by implanting thoughts and images into peoples brains, until finally they have gotten the message across to millions.

I believe we have met them and that Mars is still inhabited by our ancestors or creators; whatever they may be. Have you not noticed the "Hush Hush" attitude towards Mars lately? I do not believe that the Mars rover capsized or fell of a cliff as we have been led to believe, but rather it is still taking pictures of epic proportion, and we have discovered something that the government does not want the general public to know; or it was simply discovered and destroyed immediately by the natives, in which the last few frames would reveal the destroyers appearance. In either case we are being led astray.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> I cannot follow your logic. A bunch of cows could not defeat the human race, this is why we do not need to hide. So, you're saying we could destroy these aliens?
> 
> Why then do they release people, when if all we are is cattle? Why risk letting us go so that we can remember it and tell everybody? If they created us why would they need to experiment on us? If we can destroy them why are their space crafts visible sometimes? Why are they only visible to a couple of people when there have been reports of ufo's over cities with large populations?
> 
> If Aliens have ever been involved with this planet then you're probably right they are still here. It is us, and the aliens are our ancestors.


I never said that we could destroy the aliens,but I guarantee you that if they just flew in and said "Hello Everyone" that some asshole would start shooting. The human race is violent, and now, thanks to Hollywood, frightened to death of aliens. The mass sightings over major cities, like Sao Paulo, Brazil for example did not get noticed by a few people. thousands saw it at one time, so I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here.

At least we can agree on something!!!


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

On a lighter note, I am glad you have provided this ancient thread for us to go at it in. I simply did not want to hijack Zekedogg's thread with our argument. I do apologize for my "Go Fuck Yourself" comment.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> On a lighter note, I am glad you have provided this ancient thread for us to go at it in. I simply did not want to hijack Zekedogg's thread with our argument. I do apologize for my "Go Fuck Yourself" comment.


No need to apologise. I asked for it with my belligerant attitude, besides where i'm from we speak like that as terms of endearment.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

In our solar system there are only 2 planets capable of sustaining life, at least in terms of not being regularly bombarded with asteroids.

Sorry, gf's ordering me to make coffee.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

Which would be Earth and Mars, but that is only by our perception of what a habitable atmosphere is. However we are less likely to get hit by asteroids as our surface area is significantly smaller than the others. For all we know though there could be aliens living in the clouds of Jupiter and Saturn, that would be a wild ride huh!?

Isn't it like midnight there (Netherlands) now?


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Nearly, yes. Nearly time for bed.

yes Earth and Mars... although you're right about the other planets. i once wrote a story about the evolution of a protein strand that happened to land on Earth off the back of an asteroid. Technically this would be an alien too. It didn't start with much intelligence, but as it worked it's way through the food chain it gained it, erstwhile destroying the host before quickly moving to the next link... eventually landing in a small boy...

It was my version of the body snatchers.

Aliens could be anything... my concern is with beings with similar evolutionary patterns to our own, beings like us. beings that kidnap us at will for whatever reasons. If they do that, then yes it would be right to fear such a being. If they truly came in peace and were more technologically advanced than us then they wouldn't fear us and would quite happily land on our planet. As we would to anyone else we were superior to.

I can not let myself believe something that doesn't make sense.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Aliens could be anything... my concern is with beings with similar evolutionary patterns to our own, beings like us. beings that kidnap us at will for whatever reasons. If they do that, then yes it would be right to fear such a being. If they truly came in peace and were more technologically advanced than us then they wouldn't fear us and would quite happily land on our planet. As we would to anyone else we were superior to.
> 
> I can not let myself believe something that doesn't make sense.


 
You are right about the fact that aliens could be anything. Who knows what things on other planets look like that have not surpassed our intelligence. Somewhere outhere is some weird ass thing that will have evolved enough to communicate once we achieve the technology of interplanetary travel.

Like I said before, maybe they have been watching us and know how violent and panicky we are, thus not wanting to reveal themselves immediately. Or they are our creators and keep us in the dark so they can take what they need from us when they need it. Or hell maybe we are to them what your nice little crop of Cannibas is to you; maybe they are growing and cultivating us to their standards. Or maybe they are friendly, but due to the fact that they have been tracked and shot at by our military planes, are afraid to approach the public as a whole and are abducting us 1 by 1 to implant the idea of their presence into our heads. At any rate, one day we will know the truth. It might not be in mine or your lifetime, but we will find out.


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## skunkushybrid (May 22, 2007)

Also, these modern depictions of aliens greys/grays. Have you ever noted how similar in appearance they are to Darwins evolutionary picture for mankind?

These greys, are a step in our evolution that we are yet to reach. Larger heads to accomodate our increased brain power, smaller bodies, no nose and large bug eyes. This is where the image in your avatar originally stems from, Darwins theory of evolution.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

It has even been said by some people that the greys are actually time travelers. They say they are us from the far off future coming back to harvest DNA and other assorted bodily fluids because they no longer have the ability to reproduce.


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## Erniedytn (May 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Different types of aliens, all with the same ethos? Not one of them is aggressive? Or maybe there's some type of inter galactic battle going on and our masters (the greys) are protecting us?.


 
This very well could be the case.


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## krime13 (May 23, 2007)

I Have No Master, So Speak For Your Self Only!


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## skunkushybrid (May 23, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> It has even been said by some people that the greys are actually time travelers. They say they are us from the far off future coming back to harvest DNA and other assorted bodily fluids because they no longer have the ability to reproduce.


Time Travel is impossible. Even in theory the only direction you can travel is forwards. I have an old thread on this subject too somewhere if you'd like me to pull it up. In fact I might anyway as it's an old thread and it will be in the wrong section as this section is relatively new.

I likened what we perceive aliens to look like to Darwins evolutuionary picture of mankind because this is where we (or rather the movies) have gotten the imagery for these greys.

People are seeing them because the movies are telling them these are what the aliens look like. The first ever recorded abduction was actually in Brazil some time before 1960's, where the guy was abducted by female aliens and raped repeatedly. The creatures he described, I believe, were covered in hair.

Unfortunate, but I believe we are much more alone than anyone thinks. There is life out there, maybe even sentient life... There will come a time as we colonise the stars that our paths will meet. They are out there, somewhere. But that time is a long way away, maybe even a couple million years. When we do meet, we better hope that we are at least on an equal footing to them. All creatures on this planet are territorial, all fight each other, and all fear other animals... even us. If they're stronger than us the law of nature says they will seek to destroy us, even in friendship they would try to change us, mould us to their way of thinking... just as we would try to do to them.

This alien belief thing is tantamount to believing in a god. You even believe that these aliens are our creators... It makes no sense. Doesn't add up.


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## Erniedytn (May 23, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Time Travel is impossible. Even in theory the only direction you can travel is forwards. I have an old thread on this subject too somewhere if you'd like me to pull it up. In fact I might anyway as it's an old thread and it will be in the wrong section as this section is relatively new.
> 
> I likened what we perceive aliens to look like to Darwins evolutuionary picture of mankind because this is where we (or rather the movies) have gotten the imagery for these greys.
> 
> ...


I'm with you on the time travel thing.

People are seeing aliens because aliens are visiting Earth. That dude was raped by Bigfoot, but still where did Betty and Barney Hill get their description of a grey from? They were not scientific people. It seems that no matter what each of us says the other is not going to sway. I think we have both presented a good argument, but unfortunately I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. One more note--the Bible says god created us in his image.........


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## closet.cult (May 23, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> I believe there is something out there, maybe BILLIONS of LIGHT YEARS away, but there all the same. But as far as visiting this planet is concerned I always like to think of it like this.
> 
> Say it is us that find life first. We come across a planet with sentient living beings. They're not as advanced as us (we've discovered the warp-drive), they've only just discovered the wheel.
> 
> What would We do? The first thing we'd do is more than likely check out the planet's resources. Technology uses a lot of these. Then when we discovered the richness of it as the inhabitants technology is limited to cutting down a few trees. We'd go and take it. Maybe the Aliens would put up a little struggle, but they'd be no match for us. We'd take everything they had and then try and teach them how to form Governments. Most of our major advancements have come through WARS.


Its a very pessimistic scenario you have described, skunk. And correct, if the humans of today were exploring. 

But if we are advanced to point of being able to reach a civilization billions of light years away, I prefer a more optimistic view. Like, our advancements have taught us a respect for ALL life forms and the homes they inhabit. 

I prefer to dream that in the future, humans will have learned their lessons. Its just a dream. Maybe my childrens children will see it.


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## closet.cult (May 23, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> It has even been said by some people that the greys are actually time travelers. They say they are us from the far off future coming back to harvest DNA and other assorted bodily fluids because they no longer have the ability to reproduce.


Everything you said so far about aliens is conjecture. No offense. It's shows great imagination, a little paranoia. It's great sci-fi, but not science; which should be testable.

And there could be many other rational reasons for the lights people see in the night sky. Why do people automatically assume aliens?

So, no one ever offers hard proof. And none of the incapable governments of this world could pull off the kind of cover-ups required to fool a nation as large and advanced as the U.S., without the neurolizor technology of Men in Black. 

So, no. I personally doubt the existence of regular visits of intelligent aliens from other planets. 

But I keep an open mindand heart. I would love to meet an interstellar traveler. Id offer him a J and ask if they have bud where hes from. Maybe he rolls his own and wed get chinese off of Venus Lights or something.


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## Erniedytn (May 23, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> It&#8217;s a very pessimistic scenario you have described, skunk. And correct, if the humans of today were exploring.
> 
> But if we are advanced to point of being able to reach a civilization billions of light years away, I prefer a more optimistic view.


 
Why is everyone so intent on "billions of light years away"? Is it so hard to believe that there is other life right here in our own solar system?


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## Erniedytn (May 23, 2007)

[quote=closet.cult;145549]

And there could be many other rational reasons for the lights people see in the night sky. Why do people automatically assume aliens?

So, no one ever offers hard proof. And none of the incapable governments of this world could pull off the kind of cover-ups required to fool a nation as large and advanced as the U.S., without the neurolizor technology of &#8216;Men in Black.&#8217; 

So, no. I personally doubt the existence of regular visits of intelligent aliens from other planets. 

But I keep an open mind&#8230;and heart. I would love to meet an interstellar traveler. I&#8217;d offer him a J and ask if they have bud where he&#8217;s from. Maybe he rolls his own and we&#8217;d get chinese off of Venus Lights or something.  [/quote]


Like I said before. I do not believe the whole time travel scenario. 

You are right about the lights. For all we know they could be government air craft. But what about all the liscenced FAA commercial pilots that report silver discs flying past their airplanes at breakneck speeds, pulling off manuevers we could never begine to imagine, with little to no sound?

As for the hard proof, there was more of that in ancient civilizations than there is today.

You think the government is incapable of keeping us in the dark? Thats ridiculous. the superpowers of this world have already gone to great lengths to pull the wool over our eyes on many different scenarios, and they did it w/o the "neuralizer". I think that if you do the research, you will find that many of the truths you believe today are in fact all lies. The USA was founded on lies, and will continue to run on lies until something really drastic happens.

I would give my left nut to be able to toke with an alien. That would be the coolest shit EVER!!!!


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## Erniedytn (May 23, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Time Travel is impossible. Even in theory the only direction you can travel is forwards. I have an old thread on this subject too somewhere if you'd like me to pull it up. .


 
I think that would be interesting. just to see what other people have to say about it. It's always fun to just daydream about some shit.


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## closet.cult (May 23, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Why is everyone so intent on "billions of light years away"? Is it so hard to believe that there is other life right here in our own solar system?


it need not be 'billions of light years' away, but if INTELLIGENT life were in this solar system we should have picked up signs of them so far.


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## closet.cult (May 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> But what about all the liscenced FAA commercial pilots that report silver discs flying past their airplanes at breakneck speeds, pulling off manuevers we could never begine to imagine, with little to no sound?
> 
> You think the government is incapable of keeping us in the dark? Thats ridiculous. the superpowers of this world have already gone to great lengths to pull the wool over our eyes on many different scenarios, and they did it w/o the "neuralizer". I think that if you do the research, you will find that many of the truths you believe today are in fact all lies.


breakneck speeds, with no sounds. hmmmm. look, there's no telling what they were seeing. i mean, THEY don't even know, right? but the sunny sky and nightime sky can play tricks on you. if you've ever flown in the cockpit, you'd know. it can be hard to judge distance and space. so, i wouldn't assume aliens so quickly. 

i think the government can hide facts and partition information in such a way to keep the public in the dark. but aliens that are out in the open, flying around impossible aircrafts are outside of any person or group's control. evidence would eventually mount. so far, the evidence is crummy; mostly hill billies and disoriented pilots. as rational, skeptical people we must demand greater proof for peoples 'stories'. 

it's just like god. if I cannot see, test or prove your story, I don't have to take it seriously.


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## skunkushybrid (May 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> it need not be 'billions of light years' away, but if INTELLIGENT life were in this solar system we should have picked up signs of them so far.


Exactly. We fire out radio waves with messages far into space in the hope that some intelligent life will pick it up, and I don't know, maybe stop by for a chat.

If we picked up these waves from another planet what would we do? We'd shit ourselves.

This alien belief is just another way of not accepting that we are our own masters. Maybe eventually even this god(s) that we dream of. One day it will be us creating new life, making planets habitable...

Science has it all, all the magic you're searching for. What about the nano-world? A very real place within our own reality. The world of the very small. Quantum Mechanics, there is so much we have yet to learn and discover. We've done it well so far on our own.

Sorry closet.cult, hopefully if it does take millions of years to meet these aliens then we might treat them differently. Do you think we might hide from them and kidnap them instead for experiments, but our morals at the time prevent us from doing the creatures any real harm? What if we got seen, would we realise that the world is controlled by governments that hide things from the majority of the people, and just carry on anyway. Although, wouldn't it be also true that we would only need to take one alien for experimentation? No, we'd need more...

You see closet., if we can change so much in a couple million years, then so might these aliens already have done. Their civilisation could be a couple million years ahead of our own.

This also asks the question then, that if they are so advanced, why would they need to experiment on us in the first place? Surely they'd just be happy to observe from a distance... surely, that would be funny enough.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> it need not be 'billions of light years' away, but if INTELLIGENT life were in this solar system we should have picked up signs of them so far.


 
Google "mars anonales" and "lunar anomales" and see for yourself.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> breakneck speeds, with no sounds. hmmmm. look, there's no telling what they were seeing. i mean, THEY don't even know, right? but the sunny sky and nightime sky can play tricks on you. if you've ever flown in the cockpit, you'd know. it can be hard to judge distance and space. so, i wouldn't assume aliens so quickly.
> 
> i think the government can hide facts and partition information in such a way to keep the public in the dark. but aliens that are out in the open, flying around impossible aircrafts are outside of any person or group's control. evidence would eventually mount. so far, the evidence is crummy; mostly hill billies and disoriented pilots. as rational, skeptical people we must demand greater proof for peoples 'stories'.
> 
> it's just like god. if I cannot see, test or prove your story, I don't have to take it seriously.


Dude these guys are liscenced commercial pilots that are highly educated and fly worldwide everyday. They are not hillbillies or "disoriented" <WTF?. You and your buddy skunkish still don't seem to get the fact that hundreds of people see these things monthly. the evidence has mounted, but the government can still cap the media and control what stories are let out. Hell I have even tried to view videos on Youtube posted on the UFO site, and guess what, they have been deleted due to "Terms of Service Violation"---imagine that.

No you don't have to take it seriously, but if you keep testing my beliefs, then I will continue to argue.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> This also asks the question then, that if they are so advanced, why would they need to experiment on us in the first place? Surely they'd just be happy to observe from a distance... surely, that would be funny enough.


Dude how many times do I have to say it----STOP APPLYING YOUR WAY OF THINKING TO THESE ALIENS. They are not human, nobody on this entire planet could even come close to being able to rationalize their actions.


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## closet.cult (May 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Dude these guys are liscenced commercial pilots that are highly educated and fly worldwide everyday. They are not hillbillies or "disoriented" <WTF?. You and your buddy skunkish still don't seem to get the fact that hundreds of people see these things monthly. the evidence has mounted, but the government can still cap the media and control what stories are let out. Hell I have even tried to view videos on Youtube posted on the UFO site, and guess what, they have been deleted due to "Terms of Service Violation"---imagine that.


1. trust me, no disrespect toward professional pilots. but you must at least admit that even skilled, experienced pilots can become disoriented in many flying conditions, for a variety of reasons. this has been shown to have occurred in both military and civilian flights and it responsible for loss of aircrafts. IMO, this is the start to understanding the UFO (unidentified! flying objects) phenomenom with pilots.

2. o.k., the government obviously can't control the space crafts zooming around the skies. so, why haven't the aliens flown over a well populated city and been filmed by a credible source?

don't worry, you can't answer that. like you told skunk, don't pretend to get inside of an aliens head. just accept that you and all the others will continue to search for truths in this field and will be continue to be disappointed and frustrated when you get nowhere in your search.

that's why i don't take the alien thing seriously. here's the premise: the government is so inept and lacking in EVERY other field, but they somehow got this alien cover-up deal sown up perfectly. yeah, right! and then you suggest that privately owned companies like youtube are in cahoots with the government. maybe you're right, but i see no evidence of any government office working so efficiently.




Erniedytn said:


> No you don't have to take it seriously, but if you keep testing my beliefs, then I will continue to argue.


your beliefs. exactly. it's just like people's god beliefs. there's no real hard evidence. just circumstantial reports, hearsay, and ALOT of emotion. For people to accept your beliefs as true, you must come with more than that.

Look, no disrespect. These are just my gut feelings anytime someone tries to sell me something that cannot be proven. I just demand more evidence.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> 2. o.k., the government obviously can't control the space crafts zooming around the skies. so, why haven't the aliens flown over a well populated city and been filmed by a credible source?
> 
> 
> your beliefs. exactly. it's just like people's god beliefs. there's no real hard evidence. just circumstantial reports, hearsay, and ALOT of emotion. For people to accept your beliefs as true, you must come with more than that..


1. There have been mass sightings over two cities: one in Sao Paulo Brazil, the other in Belgium. Look it up.

2.Try to prove to me that they DON'T exist, and have never been here. I will bury you in evidence to the contrary.


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## closet.cult (May 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> 1. There have been mass sightings over two cities: one in Sao Paulo Brazil, the other in Belgium. Look it up.
> 
> 2.Try to prove to me that they DON'T exist, and have never been here. I will bury you in evidence to the contrary.


No one can, nor should they have to PROVE a NEGATIVE. that's not how proofs work. that's why evidence for aliens is crummy.

YOU'RE the one making the unbelievable POSITIVE claim that they DO exist. the burden of proof is on YOU to prove the affirmative: Aliens are here. can YOU do it? No one else has so far...

I'd love to see what kind of evidence was gathered from mass sightings in those cities. I'll look into it. can you give me any direction in my search?


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

Here are a few links:

Belgium

The Belgium Sightings (1989\90)

New UFO Wave Hits Belgium

Brazil

HBCC UFO Research - Ex- Airline Pilot Has An Amazing Encounter Of A UFO (Audio Clip)

Thats the only one from there I can find right now. Let me look into it further, or you can just Google "mass UFO sightings" and go from there. They are also sometimes called "UFO Flaps".

Heres an interesting video from Mexico City:

Mexico City UFO Footage


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## closet.cult (May 24, 2007)

thank you! 

but...typical reports, i have to say. and the brazil town is right next to a NATO base! i admit, they're mysterious, unexplained, unidentified objects. 

but it's not yet proof, in the definate sense.

i'll keep looking out of curiousity, but there's probably a billion web pages on UFO's and sitings. how do you bridge that?


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

Well to find those links I searched "Belgium UFO sightings", and then "mass UFO sightings". I agree there are alot of reports out there, you just have to filter out the obvious bullshit.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> it's just like god. if I cannot see, test or prove your story, I don't have to take it seriously.


I must say that the God subject is the complete opposite of the UFO/alien phenomeon. There is more proof out there that aliens exist than not, where as there is absolutely no proof one way or the other of an all powerful God.


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## closet.cult (May 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> I must say that the God subject is the complete opposite of the UFO/alien phenomeon. There is more proof out there that aliens exist than not, where as there is absolutely no proof one way or the other of an all powerful God.


but i mean, your description of aliens, and their intent on comming to the earth, and their technology, and their origins and their relation to man is all conjecture!

it's a story that someone created. and even if it's a full circle explaination with no loop holes, it's no better then a fictional novel. there's no proof of the way you believe. it just makes sense to you and others.

that is exactly what believers do. they fall for a story about a god THEY'VE never seen and take other people word for it because it makes sense to them.

BTW, have YOU seen any aliens? i'm cirtain you and many of us, (me included) have seen a UFO, by definition. but how can you believe someones story of these beings without ever seeing one for yourself? i'd want more proof before being gullible enough to argue someone elses fictional story.

(i actually hate how strong a stance it seems i am taking on this issue. i don't mean to dog you. but how strongly you stick to your story about the missing planet in the astroid belt and seeding humans, reminds me of religious fanaticism. you're both fighting for something you have no evidence of, with no credible scientists to back you up with proofs. have you ever read Carl Sagan's words on proof of alien visits?)


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## closet.cult (May 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Google "mars anonales" and "lunar anomales" and see for yourself.


both the mars and luman anomalies were debunked by Carl Sagan and other scientists by later mission fly bys. check out his book, 'Science as a candle in the Dark'. They're just mountains and basins and shadows.

you can't trust anyone 100&#37;. but i trusted the things he said. if he found proof of alien intelligence, he would shouted it from the rooftops...even if just to increase funding.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> BTW, have YOU seen any aliens? i'm cirtain you and many of us, (me included) have seen a UFO, by definition. but how can you believe someones story of these beings without ever seeing one for yourself? i'd want more proof before being gullible enough to argue someone elses fictional story.
> 
> (i actually hate how strong a stance it seems i am taking on this issue. i don't mean to dog you. but how strongly you stick to your story about the missing planet in the astroid belt and seeding humans, reminds me of religious fanaticism. you're both fighting for something you have no evidence of, with no credible scientists to back you up with proofs. have you ever read Carl Sagan's words on proof of alien visits?)


No I haven't seen any aliens or UFOs for that matter. I am basing all my beliefs on the simple research I have done on this subject throughout the years.

The only reason I am fighting back at you about this is because you came into mine and skunks debate, so now I got two people against me. I am not one to give in so easily in the heat of battle. The original post I made on this subject about the asteroid belt and all is mainly just a theory. I do not fully believe all of it. My stance is this: there are aliens, they have visited us, and they might even be our creators, other than that is just speculation.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> both the mars and luman anomalies were debunked by Carl Sagan and other scientists by later mission fly bys. check out his book, 'Science as a candle in the Dark'. They're just mountains and basins and shadows.
> 
> you can't trust anyone 100%. but i trusted the things he said. if he found proof of alien intelligence, he would shouted it from the rooftops...even if just to increase funding.


 
I'm not talking about the pics from 1978, I mean the recent ones. Gimme a little while and I'll post links.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

Here you go:

MarsAnomalyResearch Home Page

Mars Anomalies

Mars Anomalies- Unusual Martian Images

Mars UnEarthed - Mars Anomalies

This one has about 100 more links:

Surfing The Apocalypse


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## skunkushybrid (May 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Dude how many times do I have to say it----STOP APPLYING YOUR WAY OF THINKING TO THESE ALIENS. They are not human, nobody on this entire planet could even come close to being able to rationalize their actions.


And how many times must I say that if these aliens have built space ships, made of some type of metal, there must've been a chain before this. Or do you believe these aliens were born with these technoligical skills?

Before we drove cars we had to invent the wheel. Are you suggesting that these aliens just came to be and started building space ships straight away?

Most of our technological advances have come through war and disease. If we weren't so competitive then we would never have advanced this quickly. We even used the 3rd reich's research into the human genome... saved us years.

So these aliens that look like us, act like us and use technology like us are not anything like us? Like I said, it makes no sense.

Now if you said an alien that doesn't use technology, now that would make sense, but at the same time discount the spaceship and abduction theories.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

I'm not saying they didn't advance like us. You keep insisting that you do not understand why they would need to experiment on us, and that they would be happy to observe from a distance. Unless you yourself are an alien, then you cannot begin to fathom what they need, or why they do what they do. Thats what I'm saying. They come here for something, but neither your or I know what that is, nor could we understand it unless it was blatently displayed before us.


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## skunkushybrid (May 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> I'm not saying they didn't advance like us.


Well then, i can apply human thought processes can't I. 

If they were all powerful and they needed something from us they'd only have to ask. It's not like we could destroy them, is it?


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

But dude, you have to think about the communication boundaries here, assuming that they are visiting us just recently. Goddam phones are ringing off the hook. I'll finish this in a bit


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## skunkushybrid (May 24, 2007)

You tell me that some guy in the 60's deciphered alien manuscript (whatever) and then tell me that these all powerful aliens might have a problem communicating with us?

Now, you're struggling. Once you apply common sense it's game over.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

I said assuming that they are just recently coming to visit. If they have been here as long as I believe they have, then they know that we are panicky, violent beings that will not cooperate with them. Once again this brings me back to the herd of cattle. Certainly cows cannot overthrow us, but don't you think that if they were smart enough to know that we were coming to kill them that they would band together and try to defend themselves? Why bother clueing us in when they can simply come here, take what they need and ride out?


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Well then, i can apply human thought processes can't I.


 
No you can't because they are not human.


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## skunkushybrid (May 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> I said assuming that they are just recently coming to visit. If they have been here as long as I believe they have, then they know that we are panicky, violent beings that will not cooperate with them. Once again this brings me back to the herd of cattle. Certainly cows cannot overthrow us, but don't you think that if they were smart enough to know that we were coming to kill them that they would band together and try to defend themselves? Why bother clueing us in when they can simply come here, take what they need and ride out?


No we wouldn't get all panicky and react violently. That's bullshit. We're a realistic race, if aliens with far superior technology landed and said that they wanted peace, but they just need this one thing from us we'd give it to them.

There are plenty of animals that are aware they are going to die and run, every animal for itself. Why do they run, because they know they are going to die. They don't band together and fight.

So now the aliens are coming here to kill us? This is what you're suggesting with the analogy of the cows. As far as I'm aware these 'abductees' are always let go afterwards. If they were so technologically advanced they'd be able to clone us... so if it were for breeding purposes they'd only need one female. In fact, I doubt there'd be anything they needed from us aside from resources to fund their massive technologies, and then they'd simply destroy us to take them... like you said, to them we'd be merely cows.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> No we wouldn't get all panicky and react violently. That's bullshit. We're a realistic race, if aliens with far superior technology landed and said that they wanted peace, but they just need this one thing from us we'd give it to them.


You obviousley do not live in the US. These rednecks over here would shoot without giving them the chance to do or say anything. The US military would shoot down anything they could to get their hands on that kind of technology.



skunkushybrid said:


> There are plenty of animals that are aware they are going to die and run, every animal for itself. Why do they run, because they know they are going to die. They don't band together and fight.
> 
> So now the aliens are coming here to kill us? This is what you're suggesting with the analogy of the cows. As far as I'm aware these 'abductees' are always let go afterwards. If they were so technologically advanced they'd be able to clone us... so if it were for breeding purposes they'd only need one female. In fact, I doubt there'd be anything they needed from us aside from resources to fund their massive technologies, and then they'd simply destroy us to take them... like you said, to them we'd be merely cows.


They run because they are scared. if they were as intelligent as us, then they would band together.Look man I have no fucking idea why they are coming here. How do you know they could clone us? They might have put all their energy into making the spaceship. You don't know what they need and neither do I, but there they are nonetheless.


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## eatspam (May 24, 2007)

I personally think that aliens explain the evolution of man...

they came down, fucked apes, and here we are


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

OK skunk----I was driving home and came to the conclusion that this is me trying to make you understand:

             

There are more people worldwide that believe than don't. There is also more info out there on this subject than I can throw at you. If you really want to understand then you research it. I have tried everything I know how to make you understand to the point of getting pissed off. I give up, throw in the towl, concede, "uncle".


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## jj1234 (May 24, 2007)

The belief in "aliens" is widespread, but the majority of the population does not believe aliens came Earth. It is unlikely that any sort of life capable of space travel are close enough to even get here.


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## fdd2blk (May 24, 2007)

there is a spaceship in there.


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## fdd2blk (May 24, 2007)

and 2 big headed aliens.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> there is a spaceship in there.


 

SEE!!!!!!!!


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## fdd2blk (May 24, 2007)

now you guys got me going......

Ancient Aircraft - Crystalinks


.


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## Erniedytn (May 24, 2007)

Fuck it--I'm not giving up 



skunkushybrid said:


> No we wouldn't get all panicky and react violently. That's bullshit.


 
Shoot first, ask questions later


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## fdd2blk (May 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Fuck it--I'm not giving up
> 
> 
> 
> ...




good answer.


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## fdd2blk (May 24, 2007)




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## fdd2blk (May 24, 2007)

come on, carved in the pyramids. please explain.


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## fdd2blk (May 24, 2007)

maybe i should go live in a cave.........


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## fdd2blk (May 24, 2007)

you got me going....


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## fdd2blk (May 24, 2007)

*Nasca Lines, Peru






*


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

jj1234 said:


> The belief in "aliens" is widespread, but the majority of the population does not believe aliens came Earth. It is unlikely that any sort of life capable of space travel are close enough to even get here.


At last, someone with some sense. 

If aliens had all this great technology (which follows a chain from first discovering fire and upwards), of course they could clone, they can travel to our planet almost unseen, and do what they like at will. They can build spaceships, yet don't have the technology to clone? So now they aren't as advanced as us?

Aliens are not coming to this planet to kidnap people, not coming to this planet at all. You say they may live on mars. How come these aliens are the only type of creature on mars? When our planet has billions of life forms?

Out of all the billions of life forms on this planet we are the only type capable of seeking out new planets, yet you believe that a special life form is living on it's own with no other animals for company, on mars, and not only created us but now feels the need to periodically kidnap one or two of us for experiments?

You keep banging your head against that wall.


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

First of all



skunkushybrid said:


> You tell me that some guy in the 60's deciphered alien manuscript (whatever) and then tell me that these all powerful aliens might have a problem communicating with us?


Can you read Heiroglyphics?


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> At last, someone with some sense.
> 
> You say they may live on mars. How come these aliens are the only type of creature on mars? When our planet has billions of life forms?
> 
> Out of all the billions of life forms on this planet we are the only type capable of seeking out new planets, yet you believe that a special life form is living on it's own with no other animals for company, on mars, and not only created us but now feels the need to periodically kidnap one or two of us for experiments?


Dude I NEVER said that there was only one life form on Mars. If I did please prove me wrong. If they DID create us don't you think they would want to follow up on it?


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> come on, carved in the pyramids. please explain.


 
It pretty much explains itself. There was obviousley alien influence.


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Dude I NEVER said that there was only one life form on Mars. If I did please prove me wrong. If they DID create us don't you think they would want to follow up on it?


So, there must be billions of life forms then, just like here. Mars would have bustling cities, maybe even wonders that could be seen from space. Emitting radio waves, micro waves... something. Yet there is nothing... a civilisation such as the one you describe could not hide itself so well.Mars is a dead planet, has been for millions of years... what is happening now is that Mars is stirring.... I believe Global Warming is doing enough to make mars bear life once again. This process will take millions of years, but I have a feeling we may end up speeding that process up to suit our own desire to colonise.Maybe we could hybridise certain types of creatures to populate the planet for us.What of disease, we from cosmic radiation and they from all manner of earthly disease? They're advanced enough to prevent all this? There's more to advancement than building space ships, yet one usually goes in hand with the other... what of the nano-world I've mentioned before, surely they would have by-passed string theory, or superstring theory by now?How far advanced are these aliens exactly... well they can cloak their ships, not just from radar but from the millions of prying eyes around the world, also the satellites littering space outside our atmosphere. They can experiment on people and then make them (for a short period) lose their memory. they can live underground on a planet with no liveable atmosphere. What else can they do? As this really isn't much is it. When you consider how many witnesses there are that have been taken aboard these ships we should have an in-depth view by now. Not some picture generated by hollywood based on Darwins theory of evolution.Mars is ours, and one day we shall claim it as a sister planet... doubtless the first of many. We are still at the beginning, and we have a long way to go.


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Mars is ours, and one day we shall claim it as a sister planet... doubtless the first of many. We are still at the beginning, and we have a long way to go.


 
No wonder you don't believe. You sound like Mr. George Dubya Bush. I suppose you will apply this logic to Mars when we "conqour" it too:

George H. W. Bush addresses the joint session of congress, SEPTEMBER 11 1990

Quote:
"We stand today at a unique and extraordinary moment. The crisis in the Persian Gulf, as grave as it is, also offers a rare opportunity to move toward an historic period of cooperation. Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective -- a new world order -- can emerge: a new era -- freer from the threat of terror, stronger in the pursuit of justice, and more secure in the quest for peace. An era in which the nations of the world, East and West, North and South, can prosper and live in harmony. A hundred generations have searched for this elusive path to peace, while a thousand wars raged across the span of human endeavor. Today that new world is struggling to be born, a world quite different from the one we've known. A world where the rule of law supplants the rule of the jungle. A world in which nations recognize the shared responsibility for freedom and justice. A world where the strong respect the rights of the weak. This is the vision that I shared with President Gorbachev in Helsinki. He and other leaders from Europe, the Gulf, and around the world understand that how we manage this crisis today could shape the future for generations to come."


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> First of all
> 
> 
> 
> Can you read Heiroglyphics?


Completely missing your point.

Those aliens visiting egypt must've been pretty open about it for it to be apparently carved into heiroglyphs... strange then that these aliens were not treated as the gods, i'm not saying as gods, but as the only gods. I mean why worship something you've never seen when you've got magical creatures flying down to earth to have a chinwag?

Also aliens visiting the Egyptians could explain how they move those 10 tonne (or whatever) stones before the invention of the wheel. Yet, how cruel of these aliens then to stand by in their big metal ships while these temples supposedly dedicated to them were built. I mean, not even the Egyptians thought to themselves, hang on a minute, they're quite happy to help us shift the bricks, but they can't show us a better material to use?

Did you know that everyone, right down to the lowly peasent had their own pyramid? They just decreased in size the poorer you were. A peasent for example would have a pile of rocks piled up in a pyramid shape above his shallow grave. Pyramids are merely burial mounds, and also what they believed were a gateway to the heavens and to their gods.


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Completely missing your point.
> 
> Those aliens visiting egypt must've been pretty open about it for it to be apparently carved into heiroglyphs... strange then that these aliens were not treated as the gods, i'm not saying as gods, but as the only gods. I mean why worship something you've never seen when you've got magical creatures flying down to earth to have a chinwag?
> 
> ...


 
My first point was that no common person can read Heiroglyphics so of course there would be a communication problem. 

Second of all, if the Egyptians were not influenced by aliens, then why the FUCK do we see shit like the pictures that fdd2blk posted all over the Egyptian civilization? I notice you have yet to have anything to say about those?


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> No wonder you don't believe. You sound like Mr. George Dubya Bush. I suppose you will apply this logic to Mars when we "conqour" it too:
> 
> George H. W. Bush addresses the joint session of congress, SEPTEMBER 11 1990
> 
> ...


Again, I'm missing your point.

The threat from the East is a very real one indeed. Greater minds than ours are at work, constantly watching and even predicting world events. George Bush is a mere puppet for these minds, and so will your next president, likewise our own. The New World Order is not the future, it is now.

Besides, do you not see a future in the stars, colonising planets as we stretch across the universe? That's the only way you're going to find a sentient alien, maybe one intelligent enough to communicate with.


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> My first point was that no common person can read Heiroglyphics so of course there would be a communication problem.
> 
> Second of all, if the Egyptians were not influenced by aliens, then why the FUCK do we see shit like the pictures that fdd2blk posted all over the Egyptian civilization? I notice you have yet to have anything to say about those?


You must've quoted me without reading it properly, my whole post was about that.


----------



## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Completely missing your point.
> 
> Those aliens visiting egypt must've been pretty open about it for it to be apparently carved into heiroglyphs... strange then that these aliens were not treated as the gods, i'm not saying as gods, but as the only gods. I mean why worship something you've never seen when you've got magical creatures flying down to earth to have a chinwag?
> 
> Also aliens visiting the Egyptians could explain how they move those 10 tonne (or whatever) stones before the invention of the wheel. Yet, how cruel of these aliens then to stand by in their big metal ships while these temples supposedly dedicated to them were built. I mean, not even the Egyptians thought to themselves, hang on a minute, they're quite happy to help us shift the bricks, but they can't show us a better material to use?


Well maybe I am misreading this, but it sounds like complete and utter sarcasm. Are you agreeing that there were alien visitors to ancient Egypt or not? This sure sounds like the latter.


----------



## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Greater minds than ours are at work, constantly watching and even predicting world events. George Bush is a mere puppet for these minds, and so will your next president, likewise our own. The New World Order is not the future, it is now.


 Alright who are these people influencing the puppets then? Not for nothing, but this statement supports my beliefs that the government is covering up alot of shit.


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*Wassup Skunk...sorry I missed this thread but I HAVE to say something on this.*

*To say that Egyptians were guided by or influenced by aliens is basically saying that there is no way they could have come up with these things on their own. And why not? Do you know who Imhotep was? He was the 1st pyramid builder....was he an alien? I dont think so.*

*The same people who started this Egypt/aliens connection are the same people who tried to say Egypt isnt a part of Africa. Basically....racists who dont want to give people of African heritage credit for anything. Even when the proof has stood in our faces for nearly 3000 years (pyramids/sphinx).*

*Does the sphinx look like an alien? No...It looks like a man with a lion's body. Both Earthly creatures. It would look more like an African man if Napoleon hadnt lined his cannons in front of it and blew the nose off (check your history books...its there). So lets give the alien/Egypt thing a rest. There is NO proof to back that up....But there is more than enough proof that everything there was designed by man.....Blackmen at that.*


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Well maybe I am misreading this, but it sounds like complete and utter sarcasm. Are you agreeing that there were alien visitors to ancient Egypt or not? This sure sounds like the latter.


No, common sense... read the post again. It provides sensical evidence that aliens couldn't have visited ancient egypt. So then it sdoesn't matter where these pic's came from, as it just isn't logical any aliens were there in the first place.

So now you believe that the West's thinktank is in league with these aliens, so that what? We are controlled while they are not? They keep it a secret while these aliens drain our adrenal glands?

There are no x-files, at least not of the type you refer and revere.


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*^^^agreed^^^*


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> No, common sense... read the post again. It provides sensical evidence that aliens couldn't have visited ancient egypt.


OK now you have completely went into left field. If aliens did not visit ancient Egypt then where did the Egyptians conjur up these images to carve? Did they go to the pyramidplex 16 and watch a movie, then come home and carve aliens into the wall? it is also starnge that the carvings depict the greeys. Here I'll post them again so you can see:






Like fdd said, theres a spaceship, and two aliens right there in the middle.











Explain that away.


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> *The same people who started this Egypt/aliens connection are the same people who tried to say Egypt isnt a part of Africa. Basically....racists who dont want to give people of African heritage credit for anything. **.*


 
Fucking A dude.This does not have shit to do with race. It's more about species. You must be from the U.S.


----------



## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> OK now you have completely went into left field. If aliens did not visit ancient Egypt then where did the Egyptians conjur up these images to carve? Did they go to the pyramidplex 16 and watch a movie, then come home and carve aliens into the wall? it is also starnge that the carvings depict the greeys. Here I'll post them again so you can see:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In that first pic', it could be anything... a decorated cauldron, cooking pot. Maybe it's a tale about a cannibal that liked eating children.

The second one seems to telling a story of someones life and finally burial.

Good enough?


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> * So lets give the alien/Egypt thing a rest. There is NO proof to back that up....But there is more than enough proof that everything there was designed by man.....Blackmen at that.*


 
THERE IS MORE EVIDENCE OF ALIEN INFLUENCE IN THE EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION THAN ANY OTHER PLACE AND TIME IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MAN.


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> THERE IS MORE EVIDENCE OF ALIEN INFLUENCE IN THE EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION THAN ANY OTHER PLACE AND TIME IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MAN.


THERE IS NO EVIDENCE. MERELY SPECULATION.


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

Are you fucking blind dude? Do you not see the two pictures I posted? You have yet to explain them away. Those are just 3 out of thousands. I will fucking bury this thread in pics if I have to.


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

If you're looking for aliens then that is what you'll see.


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> In that first pic', it could be anything... a decorated cauldron, cooking pot. Maybe it's a tale about a cannibal that liked eating children.
> 
> The second one seems to telling a story of someones life and finally burial.
> 
> Good enough?


 
Now you are just grasping at straws. There are obviousley grey aliens in those pictures. you can explain away hearsay, but you cannot deny a painting made back then that clearly shows alien life.


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> OK now you have completely went into left field. If aliens did not visit ancient Egypt then where did the Egyptians conjur up these images to carve? Did they go to the pyramidplex 16 and watch a movie, then come home and carve aliens into the wall? it is also starnge that the carvings depict the greeys. Here I'll post them again so you can see:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
*Where is the alien shit your talking about. The Metu Neter (hieroglyphs) were symbols from Egyptian society...birthing chair...water urn....arrows...crook...flail...asps...chariots....etc. ALL HUMAN SHIT!!*

*So again...where is your proof!! Each one of those symbols are earthly...US...Transyvania...doesnt matter my location when facts are facts. You've been on the Sci-Fi channel too much....confusin reality with make believe.*

*Now...prove anything I said in my previous statement as being false. Do that please. Go google Egyptian hieros and you'll find what each symbol means....The Rosetta stone...ever heard of it? Thats how it was 1st translated. Pick up a book sometimes....Graham Hancock "FingerPrints Of The Gods, FootPrints Of The Gods. Seems Im speaking on things that can be proven...whereas what youre saying seems only to be proof in your imagination. *


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

Well skunk you have obviousley recruited some faggot ass help here, so I'm done getting tagged teamed by a bunch of right wing assholes. You would not come to my forum to discuss this for this exact reason, so I am now refusing to go any further. If you fuckers want proof of aliens go do the research yourself. I'm done stressing over this bullshit.


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Now you are just grasping at straws. There are obviousley grey aliens in those pictures. you can explain away hearsay, but you cannot deny a painting made back then that clearly shows alien life.


lol. are you fucking blind? You're the one grasping at straws... those items could be depicting anything and you choose to believe it's fucking aliens. It could be a thousand other things, you see what you want to see.

It is you that is blind, blinded by your own non-sensical bullshit.


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*lol....see what happens when you cant back up the bullshit you talk? Namecalling only further proves my point. Someone who cant even legitimize their argument....but you want us to believe you when you say aliens are here....cause somedude on a forum posted a pic. Really bright of you.*

*I guess there are unicorns too....saw a pic on the internet yesterday.*


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

IT'S A HELICOPTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









love ya skunk but these are not random coincidences. something here is missing in history. you say pyramids are "simply" burial temples. ok, build one. where did they get the rocks? today, with our technology we cannot even recreate how it could have possible been done. we have advanced thousands of years yet can't understand our predecessors. you realize one little mutation along the evolution chain can completely change all life on a developing planet. to expect all other life to be exactly like us is just silly. maybe the genetic materials required to clone are not available on their planet. but the materials to build a spaceship are. you are thinking along a very narrow line. drop the blinders and think for a moment. we don't have moon rocks on earth. why would another planet across the far galaxies have the same make up as earth? they could be a whole other type of entity that our minds have yet to even comprehend.

we don't know everything.

...................................................................................


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

You know what there bloodshotpussy--no one asked you for your fucking opinion anyway. I never asked for this argument either. Skunk asked my opinion of aliens and I told him. Like I said before if I would have known this was going to happen I would not have responded.


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> IT'S A HELICOPTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Thank you, finally someone who thinks a little bit outside the box.


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> *lol....see what happens when you cant back up the bullshit you talk? Namecalling only further proves my point. Someone who cant even legitimize their argument....but you want us to believe you when you say aliens are here....cause somedude on a forum posted a pic. Really bright of you.*
> 
> *I guess there are unicorns too....saw a pic on the internet yesterday.*



the hieroglyphics are real. can i please see your "real" picture of the unicorn.

please...


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

so simple minded. no wonder they wish not to communicate.


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*I dont know what I said to push those buttons...but that wasnt my intent. Even though you've called me quite a few things...Ill still apologize for getting you all upset....your opinion is just as valid as anybody elses. But they are opinions...not facts. Thats all my point was.*

*As far as the unicorn...I think it actually was a goat with a horn implanted into its head (wringling brothers/barnum/baily circus I think)....thats a f'd up way to treat a goat.*

*Again...no harm intended, Ernie...so chill out.*


----------



## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> *I dont know what I said to push those buttons...but that wasnt my intent. Even though you've called me quite a few things...Ill still apologize for getting you all upset....your opinion is just as valid as anybody elses. But they are opinions...not facts. Thats all my point was.*
> 
> *As far as the unicorn...I think it actually was a goat with a horn implanted into its head (wringling brothers/barnum/baily circus I think)....thats a f'd up way to treat a goat.*
> 
> *Again...no harm intended, Ernie...so chill out.*


Its cool man. I just been going at it with this dude for 3 days now about this. Then here you come beating me down too. I'm like JEEZ, I thought this was a stoner forum!!! Sorry for the name calling--its all I could do short of putting my fist through my monitor.


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

the hieroglyphics are still real. we win!!!! nee ner nee ner. lol. peace.


aliens rock.


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

ROFLMAO


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*I need a spliff now after all this....*


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

i love rollitup!!!!!!!!


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

I have to say that WAS actually pretty fun!!!


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## skunkushybrid (May 25, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Well skunk you have obviousley recruited some faggot ass help here, so I'm done getting tagged teamed by a bunch of right wing assholes. You would not come to my forum to discuss this for this exact reason, so I am now refusing to go any further. If you fuckers want proof of aliens go do the research yourself. I'm done stressing over this bullshit.


WTF? Now you stoop to insults. I don't need proof that aliens visit this planet, or ever have done. I know they haven't. I also know that we are alone in our solar system... especially because of people like yourself that are so determined to prove their existence (in regards to visiting this planet). People like you give me all the information I need.

I didn't want to join your fruitcake site because I'm a member of this fruitcake site. Whereas you are a member in both, logical then that the debate should be held here. 

you feel tag-teamed? feel stressed? Good. Especially the latter. I'm truly happy that I've managed to stress you out. It's no wonder when you've been belted so hard with common sense... it actually wouldn't surprise me if you fell ill in the next couple of days. You need to take a rest.


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> I don't want to visit a website for alien fruitcakes. ----about your bullshit beliefs. -----some dimwit alien site.


 
Remember these insults? You are no better than me. I will take a rest, a well earned rest.


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*Hey Skunk.....Its all cool. Ernie/I apologized to each other and kept it moving. No hard feelings. *

* Funny that someone would think you/I are in it together. It was just last week or weekend when you and I were going at it on another thread. But just like the one here...it was all worked out. Cant be a stoner with a grudge...then you'd just be Republican. Hahaha....I thought that was funny!*


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> especially because of people like yourself that are so determined to prove their existence (in regards to visiting this planet). People like you give me all the information I need.
> 
> I didn't want to join your fruitcake site because I'm a member of this fruitcake site. Whereas you are a member in both, logical then that the debate should be held here.


 
Look dude I didn't ask for this argument, you came to me insisting proof and that we continue this. If you don't believe me I really don't give a fuck. You really need to smoke some of that shit you're growing and expand your thought process a little bit. I notice you do not have anything to say to fdd2blk. Oh I'm sorry, he has more posts than you. I guess thats how the food chain works around here. Anyway no worries--I give up---you win--isn't that what you need to hear? Well there you have it. Peace out

Edit: I must add that I harbor no hard feelings toward you, even if we did go at it like a couple alley cats!!!


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*Wait....Ernie...My Republican joke wasnt funny?!!?*  

*Just tryina keep it light.*


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

If that was the case (republican) he would be a cokefiend with a grudge!!


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*Ahhhh....touche', Ernie!*


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## Erniedytn (May 25, 2007)

LMAO--U like that huh!


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*yeah that was a good add on.*


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

IT IS STILL A HELICOPTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

now lets take this a step further..........................we know it's a helicopter but what about someone who may have seen it 200 years ago. what do you think they thought it was?


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*Fdd...quit pickin fights....besides I dont smoke the good shit you do...so Im more apt to get all riled up. *

*Seriously though...the images are there. But what are they inscribed on? *


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

top right corner..... Ancient Aircraft - Crystalinks


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

it is rather peculiar.


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*Interesting....Looks like I have some researching to do....any info on where specifically? Like Main pyramid...which temple etc.*


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*It is....Wanna hear my theory I make uip as I go along? lol*


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

click on this >>>>>>>>>>>> Ancient Aircraft - Crystalinks <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


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## fdd2blk (May 25, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> *It is....Wanna hear my theory I make uip as I go along? lol*




i love a good theroy. i have a couple on this but you go first.


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*OK....good link...like I said lemme research some things b4 I really put my thoughts out there on it...cool?*

*But another interesting thing...kinda to help your argument...The Nazca Lines....pretty damned old...people thought they were just odd lines....turs out its artwork of pictures and uh.....but people didnt even know they existed until arplanes were invented where you could view from above.*

Nazca Lines and Culture - Crystalinks


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## BloodShotI'z (May 25, 2007)

*I have a couple too...the short one is.....*

*Egyptians drew them....later when Egypt was invaded as we know alot of the books were taken to greece and what not. Anyway....they saw the drawings and copied to make a long story short. Who was it that was tinkering with planes, tanks way before they were actually invented? Anyway....he got it from the people who invaded Egypt. Thats one.....got another but I'd need to smoke to type all that shit.*

*BTW...That theory WAS pulled outta the backside.*


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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> *I have a couple too...the short one is.....*
> 
> *Egyptians drew them....later when Egypt was invaded as we know alot of the books were taken to greece and what not. Anyway....they saw the drawings and copied to make a long story short. Who was it that was tinkering with planes, tanks way before they were actually invented? Anyway....he got it from the people who invaded Egypt. Thats one.....got another but I'd need to smoke to type all that shit.*
> 
> *BTW...That theory WAS pulled outta the backside.*


That would be Leanardo Da Vinci.


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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Look dude I didn't ask for this argument, you came to me insisting proof and that we continue this. If you don't believe me I really don't give a fuck. You really need to smoke some of that shit you're growing and expand your thought process a little bit. I notice you do not have anything to say to fdd2blk. Oh I'm sorry, he has more posts than you. I guess thats how the food chain works around here. Anyway no worries--I give up---you win--isn't that what you need to hear? Well there you have it. Peace out
> 
> Edit: I must add that I harbor no hard feelings toward you, even if we did go at it like a couple alley cats!!!


I didn't say anything to fdd' because I've been busy, and arguing with you is enough. You're both saying the same thing and this is a public forum. Everything I say to 'you' can be read by him too. My answers are for everybody, even if it is you I'm quoting.

The pic's could be anything. We need to really make up our minds on exactly how advanced these aliens were. I mean a helicopter is a big step down from a space ship that can traverse galaxies, landing on planets with atmospheres. A big step down. I also noticed a shuttle in those heiroglyphs, also a submarine. 3 different shapes of space shuttle. See anything i want if I look hard enough.

Oh and the helicopter... when you look at the zoomed out pic' you notice that the helicopter has a hooked front, wheras on the zoomed in pic' this part of the heiroglyph is missing. Could you explain that please?

Also, the smaller pic' has very obviously been decorated (electronically) to suit your bullshit theories. 

Oh, and I could never harbour ill feelings to one such as yourself.


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## fdd2blk (May 26, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Oh and the helicopter... when you look at the zoomed out pic' you notice that the helicopter has a hooked front, wheras on the zoomed in pic' this part of the heiroglyph is missing. Could you explain that please?
> 
> Also, the smaller pic' has very obviously been decorated (electronically) to suit your bullshit theories.
> 
> Oh, and I could never harbour ill feelings to one such as yourself.



i think in the far away shot you are just seeing a shadow. there is a cracked surface in front of the helicopter. i don't see the hook. decorated? how? maybe just enhanced for detail. but i don't think it's altered.

i love you too.


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## fdd2blk (May 26, 2007)

i do notice several things:

the helicopter blade is parallel to the body. i think it needs to be pitched forward. the glider could have been model after the hieroglyphic. george lucas could have seen this photo. the space ship, blimp, submarine.... whatever that's a far reach. yes they could be anything. i just can't get over the helicopter.

if the pyramids were built by aliens i think you would see a lot more hieroglyphics with them in it. it's all a mystery to me that is why i must leave my mind open. i do not know if they exist. how can i?


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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

Check the larger pic closely. It's like playing spot the difference.


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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

I've done a few searches on google recently about shit like this... and the only stuff I can really find is information that is FOR belief in things like this. Nobody is really writing anything to stand out against this shit. Well I'm sure they are it's just that I don't know where to look.

There are always two sides, yet on the web this alien thing seems very one-sided. Yet, I'm sure the library would be able to help me with numerous books.


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## fdd2blk (May 26, 2007)

it looks the same to me. the smaller pictures look cleaned up but not altered. they look to be taken at different angles. there is a far away taken from below then a close up taken directly from in front of it.


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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

Look at the very front of the helicoter, it is bigger in the second pic' and curls upwards at the end.


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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

sorry fdd', your post no 262. The pic' you provided.


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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

There is no way that those other pic's haven't been electronically enhanced to more suit the thing we are supposed to think it is.

Come on fdd', look at your own pic'. Look closely. You'll see the truth if you try.


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## fdd2blk (May 26, 2007)

they control the internet. duh!


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## fdd2blk (May 26, 2007)

i see the pictures are enhanced. and looking at the helicopter it could be a laying down sarchophagus(sp) with a line above it.


but what about the evil little critter? lol


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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

Even the blades in your larger pic' don't stretch across like in the other cleaned-up pic's.

Do you agree with me? You must, the proof is right there.


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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> i see the pictures are enhanced. and looking at the helicopter it could be a laying down sarchophagus(sp) with a line above it.
> 
> 
> but what about the evil little critter? lol


Exactly. Those other pic's are so obviously enhanced to the point of the ridiculous. I have to admit that if you hadn't have provided that pic' I'd have known they were fake but would have been unable to prove it.


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## fdd2blk (May 26, 2007)




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## skunkushybrid (May 26, 2007)

I'd love to stay and chat. But I've got a date with some nitro mors.


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## fdd2blk (May 26, 2007)




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## fdd2blk (May 26, 2007)




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## Erniedytn (Jun 5, 2007)

I can't believe that out of all the fucking stoners on this forum that I am the only one who believes that aliens have or are visiting this planet..........or am I just the only one with big enough balls to admit it


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 5, 2007)

*Ernie you just wont leave it alone will ya? *

*OK...I think that to assume that we are the only intelligent life in the universe is extremely arrogant. If we're here....why cant someone else be someplace else?*

*Now do I think others have come/are coming to this planet? No. I think "they" are out there...but just too far away for either of us to reach one another. Im sure 25 galaxies over there is a dude puffing some strange herb he grew in his closet thats asking himself the same questions.*

*So I guess I halfway agree with you.*


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## Erniedytn (Jun 5, 2007)

See thats cool you didn't come in here bashing me 

I just cannot believe that I'm the only one with this belief. I'm not really trying to argue with anyone, I just wanna know if anyone else thinks that aliens are or have visited us. I guess it's more of a "poll" at this point. I'm not going to quit until I find someone else like me


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 5, 2007)

I believe in Aliens too. I'm with bloodshot' though. It's a shame, just like it's a shame there is no afterlife. We won't see Aliens in our lifetime Ernie, well you never know. But I do know that when aliens come, or when we come to them there will be a fanfare.

We want so much NOT to be alone... the human race moves more and more as a single unit each passing year. It needs a friend, a friend that can show us life is not so pointless after all.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 5, 2007)

^^^very well put^^^


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## Erniedytn (Jun 7, 2007)

Some more interesting finds:

YouTube - NASA Airbrushed UFOs / Lunar Base Towers

YouTube - City on MARS=


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## Erniedytn (Jun 7, 2007)

I think this is just a really fucked up and deformed person, but its trippy as hell:

YouTube - E.T Capturado Pela Nasa - Part1=


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## Erniedytn (Jun 7, 2007)

Some more reading material:

Alienshift, MARS, UFO, Alien, Pole Shift, Time Travel, 2012, Area 51, UFO Video, NASA


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 8, 2007)

*E....You are like die-hard. Seriously*


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 8, 2007)

Yeah, good going ernie. I've tried to plus rep you but it appears I've given out too much in the last 24 hours.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 8, 2007)

Thanks guys 

Yeah--even if nobody else believes, that doesn't mean I have stopped. I'm going to continue to post every new interesting thing I find on this subject

Maybe someday someone will come along that believes as strongly as me


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 8, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Yeah, good going ernie. I've tried to plus rep you but it appears I've given out too much in the last 24 hours.


 
*Same thing...*


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## bigbudeddie (Jun 8, 2007)

My father once told me that sometime during the 50-60's 2 Aliens were found in Nevada. One dead, One seriously injured. Dont know how true it is. But this could explain the outbreak in technology since the 50's. I mean honestly how do you explain such an advance in such a small time, technology just doesn't appear.

BBE


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## kelmazig (Jun 8, 2007)

I Am An Alien.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 8, 2007)

bigbudeddie said:


> My father once told me that sometime during the 50-60's 2 Aliens were found in Nevada. One dead, One seriously injured. Dont know how true it is. But this could explain the outbreak in technology since the 50's. I mean honestly how do you explain such an advance in such a small time, technology just doesn't appear.
> 
> BBE


 
Actually it was New Mexico, and it was 1947. That was the turning point in our technological advances. That is exactly what the US military has done; harvested alien technology. Some people theorize that our use of atomic weapons is what attracted them to us again.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 9, 2007)

What about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azjP1Aw6NBw


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## Erniedytn (Jun 11, 2007)

More interesting reading material.


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 12, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Actually it was New Mexico, and it was 1947. That was the turning point in our technological advances. That is exactly what the US military has done; harvested alien technology. Some people theorize that our use of atomic weapons is what attracted them to us again.


1947 was the turning point in our technology as we were still in the midst of WWII


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

Actually WWII ended in 1945.


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 12, 2007)

Yeah, I meant after. I've had a shocking couple of days.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

Yeah but see, shortly thereafter (the war) is when they started developing the SR71 Blackbird. This plane had features and characteristics unlike any other airplane ever developed. Then in the 70's they started developing the Stealth fighters. These planes have similar characteristics to their predecessor, but this time they are undetectable by radar. Who knows what they have developed by now. This is the government slowly reverse engineering UFO technology.


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 12, 2007)

So? The stealth bombers are covered in some type of black paint. This has to be reapplyed every time the plane flies a mission. If UFO's were covered in it I doubt the paint would survive entering our atmosphere.

Space travel is our future, of course this is the path we are taking.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

SO?---So overnight we went from flying bi-wing prop planes to supersonic stealth technology. That's what I'm getting at.


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 12, 2007)

From the 40's to the 70's is not overnight.


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 12, 2007)

In the 70's we also had Concorde.


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 12, 2007)

In 69 we landed on the moon.


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 12, 2007)

*Wait E....The US did make a technological jump right after WWI.*

*But that wasnt due to alien technology. Actually...they brought over all the elite German Scientists after the war. They did the bulk of the work in missle designs...jetfighters (which was their invention) and even Nuclear weapons development.*

*So unless the aliens were Germans in disguise....Im gonna have to disagree with some of that.*


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> From the 40's to the 70's is not overnight.


From 1947 to the early 1950's is overnight. They could have started developement earlier than that for all we know.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> In the 70's we also had Concorde.


Exactly


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> In 69 we landed on the moon.


Thats debateable too.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> *Wait E....The US did make a technological jump right after WWI.*
> 
> *But that wasnt due to alien technology. Actually...they brought over all the elite German Scientists after the war. They did the bulk of the work in missle designs...jetfighters (which was their invention) and even Nuclear weapons development.*
> 
> *So unless the aliens were Germans in disguise....Im gonna have to disagree with some of that.*


Yes the Germans did engineer the rocket engine..I'll give you that, but they did not come up with the sleek aerodynamic design of the SR71 or the Stealth. The US just incorporated the rocket engine into what they have reverse engineered. Give them a few more years and they will figure out the anti-gravity propulsion system(if they haven't already).


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 12, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> So? The stealth bombers are covered in some type of black paint. This has to be reapplyed every time the plane flies a mission. If UFO's were covered in it I doubt the paint would survive entering our atmosphere.
> 
> Space travel is our future, of course this is the path we are taking.


*From what I remember...the Stealth planes need to have something similar to aluminum foil reapplied to the plane after each mission. It along with the planes shape make it harder to detect by radar. Any break in the plane's wrapping make it non-stealth. And that shit is expensive!! Something like 100g to re apply that surface.*

*And Im sure another "people" from another world would have something completely different but would do the same job.....probably alot better.*

*Or they may have no need for it.....knowing our radar system arent designed to track anything other than our planes, boats etc.*


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 12, 2007)

War and disease are responsible for most of man's major jumps in technological advancement. None more so than the 2nd world war. Bloodshot has it right... the Nazis were experimenting with all sorts of shit. Psychological behaviour patterns were studied, gene splicing investigated. They had millions of jews to experiment on. The doctors would select which people they wanted. There's that infamous doctor, the one that did all the studies on the kids.

Sometimes, when you go to the drawing board you draw something you never thought you could.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

Actually you and Skunk are both correct about the layers on the Stealth. There are actually 2 that are applied; the first is white and helps fill the seams, then the second is the black that we all see. I don't think it has to be re-applied after EVERY use, but it does need it. Maybe this method was indeed derived from alien technology, but not perfected yet. Perhaps they haven't figured out EXACTLY how to replicate the chemical composition of the materials that a "UFO" is made from. I have read in several different places that an element that does not even exist here on Earth was found to be in the makeup of the alien materials from Roswell.


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 12, 2007)

Yup, every mission. I watched the film Stealth, shit movie but it passed some time.

A lot of technology starts out as theory, this then takes a few years to test before it is introduced. I believe that had we got hold of advanced technology we'd be a lot further ahead, like actually being able to build a spaceship capable of transcending galaxies.

We still have a long way to go, if only some aliens would land and lend us a hand.


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 12, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Yes the Germans did engineer the rocket engine..I'll give you that, but they did not come up with the sleek aerodynamic design of the SR71 or the Stealth. The US just incorporated the rocket engine into what they have reverse engineered. Give them a few more years and they will figure out the anti-gravity propulsion system(if they haven't already).


*Hold on....so humans can develop a new type engine but couldnt come up with a shape of a plane? You dont give people credit for much, E.*

*And...when radar was introduced and used by the military....immediately afterwards...work started on how to evade a radar (thats logical). If the knowledge was gained from reverse engineering alien technology (I feel crazy just typing that)....then why would it take so long to actually have a plane capable of radar evasion? Either way....once again....the likely is being ignored and the unprovable is being touted as "the way it happened".*


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Yup, every mission. I watched the film Stealth, shit movie but it passed some time.
> 
> I believe that had we got hold of advanced technology we'd be a lot further ahead, like actually being able to build a spaceship capable of transcending galaxies.
> 
> We still have a long way to go, if only some aliens would land and lend us a hand.


OK well there you go--every mission. I haven't seen a documentary on the Stealth for some time now, so my memory has faded(damn side effects)!

The problem is figuring the shit out. Just because we have it doesn't mean we fully understand it.

I wish they would!


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> *Hold on....so humans can develop a new type engine but couldnt come up with a shape of a plane? You dont give people credit for much, E.*
> 
> *And...when radar was introduced and used by the military....immediately afterwards...work started on how to evade a radar (thats logical). If the knowledge was gained from reverse engineering alien technology (I feel crazy just typing that)....then why would it take so long to actually have a plane capable of radar evasion? Either way....once again....the likely is being ignored and the unprovable is being touted as "the way it happened".*


What I'm getting at here, you guy's, is how FAST it came about. I don't doubt that the human race could invent all this stuff, I'm just sayin we had some help.

It took them that long to perfect the technology so they could actually put it into use. 

I'm not ignoring anything you guy's say as you both are fairly intellegent, and furthermore my ideas about aliens are not, in my book, the EXACT way everything has happened. I just think that the evidence for all this is overwhelming, and cannot be ignored!


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 12, 2007)

What about all the sightings of the loch ness monster? Some people will do whatever they can to make the unreal become real, this includes making up stories and hoaxing photographs.

Let's not forget the masses of evidence that has been debunked. People caught in their outright lies. Why do they lie?


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 12, 2007)

*One more thing....one thing leads to another...the wheel...to the cart/carriage/...to the car. Technology builds upon itself. Each step is usually fully understood and mastered before anything can be added on to that.*

*As we all know...in the last 100 years technology has taken off to the point that our understanding of the technology is behind the development of new things. Why? Because we have computers now. They do the calculations in minutes thatwould take a man/woman years calculate. So we dont fully understand everything we have.*

*Back in the day of the carriage...If you asked someone how it worked, they could explain it....they understood the technology. Nowadays...ask someone how an IPod works...they have no idea. Technology is developing faster than we can understand it....but that has nothing to do with aliens (IMO).*

*That has more to do with computers. Now I know you arent gonna say computers are an alien technology too.*

*And E...as usual this one of our healthy discussions. My disagreement is only that. I still think you're one of the coolest on this site. So dont take offense to anything I say. Its just my opinion.*


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> * Now I know you arent gonna say computers are an alien technology too.*


OK I won't


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> What about all the sightings of the loch ness monster? Some people will do whatever they can to make the unreal become real, this includes making up stories and hoaxing photographs.
> 
> Let's not forget the masses of evidence that has been debunked. People caught in their outright lies. Why do they lie?


I agree Skunk, there is ALOT of bullshit out there, but I have been researching this subject since I was 10. You have to weed out all of that to get to the few credible reports. 

Why do they lie? Hell I don't know, popularity, attention, there could be a thousand reasons people lie. It's these people that fuck it for everybody, and make non-believers like you and Bloodshot(no offense).


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## paul-mc (Jun 12, 2007)

I belive there are aliens out there because there are so many other suns and there will be planets around them, 1 of them has got to be like earth. I dont think any have come to earth though...... id like them to


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 12, 2007)

*In a sense...our computers do alot of inventing for us....and anything foregin...not indiginous to.........is considered alien. *

*So...aliens are playing a role in human development/lach of....computers.*

*(And think of what I can come up with if I were tokin and not at work)*


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 12, 2007)

*And, Skunk....just last week a "new" Nelly sighting/taping was reported. Havent seen it. But I mean cmon....these damned dinos have a life span of like 100 years. All without being seen.....do you smell that?....Smells like BULLSHIT!!*


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

I tried to plus rep you guys, but it won't let me. Don't worry it's coming---you guys are always good conversation and healthy debates


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

Nessie, Bigfoot=bullshit
Aliens=very real


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## BloodShotI'z (Jun 12, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Nessie, Bigfoot=bullshit
> Aliens=very real


*Yeah, I meant Nessie....But bigfoot is real....I saw him doing Jack Link's Beef Jerkey ads now.*


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

BloodShotI'z said:


> *Yeah, I meant Nessie....But bigfoot is real....I saw him doing Jack Link's Beef Jerkey ads now.*


 
LMAO @ Bloodshot

well there you have it--mystery solved!!!

Edit:Bigfoots webpage


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## Erniedytn (Jun 12, 2007)

Heres some more reading material on the matter:

Reverse engineering

Majestic 12

Colonel Phil Corso

http://www.unexplainedstuff.com/Invaders-from-Outer-Space/The-UFO-Mystery-Grows.html 

Enjoy


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## skunkushybrid (Jun 13, 2007)

I find, no plane to plane a bigger jump than plane to plane.

Like the invention of the steam train and the first electric train. One follows the other. What is truly amazing is the first invention of the steam train, the electric one is just a natural advancement.

Our current technology runs out in 2020. Things will be at their smallest, there's even talk of having some of this nano-technology inserted into our clothes. Intelligent clothes that will dry themselves and do all sorts of other amazing things.

Hopefully by 2020 we'll have discovered the capabilities to build even smaller as this is the key to our future. Understanding particles on the minutest of levels. Imagine the strength of glass, or metals we could forge with the ability to strengthen on these levels? Space travel, and planet colonisation will be just around the corner.


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## Erniedytn (Jun 13, 2007)

I have to say that I agree with most of that Skunk. I don't doubt that humans are capable of ingeneous inventions. The Wright Brothers first flight was indeed a milestone for mankind, as was the Russians first trip into space. But I still believe that we had a little help with the nano technology, superior air power, and integrated circuits.You must understand however that most of this alien technology we are FAR from understanding, but what we have deciphered we have put to use. Think of it like this: what if you went back to the 1800s with a cell phone or a television? It would take the scientists of that era a while to figure that shit out, you see what I'm saying? 

and oh yeah............
POST #420!!!!!!!


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## Erniedytn (Jun 15, 2007)

Just to let some of you know......this is how deep this whole alien conspiracy goes. If you guys think I'm nuts, you haven't seen anything


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## Erniedytn (Jul 5, 2007)

Check this out:

UFO Area: Incredible Iapetus


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## good2bkind (Jul 6, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> The type that come from other planets.
> 
> Anyone believe they have landed on Earth? Not that they don't exist as I believe they do, the odds of them not are too great. Actually believe though that they have landed on Earth? Or that they kidnap people for experiments?


We have to remember that all of the information _against _aliens is mostly derived from instruments designed to fail.

All of the spiritual writing on aliens talks about various realms of dimensions, and finally even science is having to move toward this understanding with quantum physics, an acknowledgement that the reality we have all subscribed to is not as we have always described it.

Everything is vibration.

If something is vibrating at a higher plane than you, you won't see it. You might feel it.

It is said that aliens visiting us exist on a different vibration; that even to be visible they must lower their vibration tremendously just to be seen.

We are still a level 0 civilization.

If they don't legalize it pretty soon, I'm not sure if we'll make it, but I hope so.


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## mogie (Jul 6, 2007)

Well this settles it once and for all my homeless brother-in-law says he saw a ufo hovering over the high school. He also intends to travel at warp speed.


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## Erniedytn (Jul 6, 2007)

good2bkind said:


> We have to remember that all of the information _against _aliens is mostly derived from instruments designed to fail.
> 
> All of the spiritual writing on aliens talks about various realms of dimensions, and finally even science is having to move toward this understanding with quantum physics, an acknowledgement that the reality we have all subscribed to is not as we have always described it.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have done your homework my friend


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## Erniedytn (Jul 9, 2007)

General Douglas MacArthur stated,

"The nations of the world will have to unite 

for the next war will be an interplanetary war. 

The nations of Earth must someday make a

common front against attack by people 

from other planets" 

New York Times
General Douglas Mac Arthur, 1955.


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## Salamandastron! (Jul 17, 2007)

Douglas Mac Arthur said that?


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## Erniedytn (Jul 17, 2007)

Salamandastron! said:


> Douglas Mac Arthur said that?


Damn right he did


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 18, 2007)

Yeah, in 1955. America was alien crazy around this period.


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## jacgrass420 (Jul 18, 2007)

i dunno mann, the universe is like a gagillion times what we know exists so... we most likely arent alone, i wouldnt mind if there were aliens, as long as they werent tryin to suck my brains out or anything...


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## Ethnobotanist (Jul 18, 2007)

good2bkind said:


> We have to remember that all of the information _against _aliens is mostly derived from instruments designed to fail.
> 
> All of the spiritual writing on aliens talks about various realms of dimensions, and finally even science is having to move toward this understanding with quantum physics, an acknowledgement that the reality we have all subscribed to is not as we have always described it.
> 
> ...


You seem to have reached at least the level of clear, but I doubt you have have yet enlightened yourself to all of the various forms of Xenu. I personally, through much study and auditing, have attained Operating Thetan VIII. 
Hold on, Art Bell has me on hold.

~Ethno
That's all sarcasm, I assure you. I simply couldn't resist; my apologies. "Level 0 Civilization", really? Do explain.


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## Erniedytn (Jul 18, 2007)

Ethnobotanist said:


> "Level 0 Civilization", really? Do explain.


Basically......We are complete retards on the bigger evolutionary scale.


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## Erniedytn (Jul 18, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Yeah, in 1955. America was alien crazy around this period.


Probably because the government made the biggest discovery in human history around 1947, and the fact that the military was reverse engineering alien technology.

I suppose it was also because America was "alien crazy" when in the 80s, Ronald Reagan made three speeches that referenced an "alien threat".



> According to a White House transcript, Reagan remarked that during his 5-hour private discussions with Gorbachev, he told [Gorbachev] to think, "how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries ..."


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## el_maco (Jul 18, 2007)

im afraid about aliens coming us and destroy us also, thats why i dont critisize armament development, the war is over only for the dead


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## ramblerpimp209 (Jul 18, 2007)

mmmmmmmmmmm, tacos.


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 18, 2007)

el_maco said:


> im afraid about aliens coming us and destroy us also, thats why i dont critisize armament development, the war is over only for the dead


Who are you agreeing with here? Who else on this thread is afraid that aliens are going to destroy us?

If these aliens have been visiting us at will without being spotted by the masses, then they could destroy us anytime they liked. What's the point in being afraid?

We could really use their help now that the sun is getting hotter. Like a mass evacuation to mars would be a good start.


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## el_maco (Jul 19, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Who are you agreeing with here? Who else on this thread is afraid that aliens are going to destroy us?
> 
> If these aliens have been visiting us at will without being spotted by the masses, then they could destroy us anytime they liked. What's the point in being afraid?
> 
> We could really use their help now that the sun is getting hotter. Like a mass evacuation to mars would be a good start.


i know, if they can get here they sure can destroy us
but if we continue developing tecnhology now we can avoid our destruction later, maybe
my point was i dont think armament development is a too bad invest at all


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 19, 2007)

el_maco said:


> i know, if they can get here they sure can destroy us
> but if we continue developing tecnhology now we can avoid our destruction later, maybe
> my point was i dont think armament development is a too bad invest at all


The way forward is peace, not war. We no longer need wars to fuel our technology drives, we have enough technology NOW to accomplish our future in the stars.

The sun is heating up, we are third in line, mars is 4th. It makes sense that we put all of our efforts into making mars a habitable place to live within the next 20 years. Land will be cheap.


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## el_maco (Jul 19, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> The way forward is peace, not war. We no longer need wars to fuel our technology drives, we have enough technology NOW to accomplish our future in the stars.
> 
> The sun is heating up, we are third in line, mars is 4th. It makes sense that we put all of our efforts into making mars a habitable place to live within the next 20 years. Land will be cheap.


i clear, that im not pro-war i think peace is the way for most of the problems but at least we should have something to defend with against aliens, a more real-life problem, what if we have an asteroid about to hit us? nukes could save our asses


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 19, 2007)

el_maco said:


> i clear, that im not pro-war i think peace is the way for most of the problems but at least we should have something to defend with against aliens, a more real-life problem, what if we have an asteroid about to hit us? nukes could save our asses


lol, nukes to destroy a comet? 

Back in the 80's your president, Ronald Reagan invested billions of dollars into a programme named Star Wars. I believe these were satellites equipped with lasers that would fire upon anything we wanted them to as they came towards our atmosphere. Funding ran out and the project was closed down. Or was it? I've never believed that after so much money spent that they decided to just forget the whole thing, I believe they accomplished their goal and wanted to keep it quiet.

There are no aliens or magical creatures. Why? We don't need them. There are enough wonders to behold and we should spend our time searching for the truth, not making up stories or fuelling others' flights of fancy.


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## el_maco (Jul 19, 2007)

you said reagan, my president?? i know USA invaded Mexico many times and financed dictatorships with puppet presidents back in the XX century but calling reagan my president is too far


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 19, 2007)

el_maco said:


> you said reagan, my president?? i know USA invaded Mexico many times and financed dictatorships with puppet presidents back in the XX century but calling reagan my president is too far


Mexico has it's own president? Now that IS going too far.


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## el_maco (Jul 19, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Mexico has it's own president? Now that IS going too far.


well the current president is there for a electoral fraud, im not sure about calling him my president


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 19, 2007)

el_maco said:


> well the current president is there for a electoral fraud, im not sure about calling him my president


So what's going to happen now? You gonna vote for Bush?


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## el_maco (Jul 19, 2007)

ummm im mexican you thought i was speaking about usa? or i didnt get it


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 19, 2007)

el_maco said:


> ummm im mexican you thought i was speaking about usa? or i didnt get it


That's because of my natural, English wit.


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## Erniedytn (Jul 19, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> We could really use their help now that the sun is getting hotter. Like a mass evacuation to mars would be a good start.


Supposedly...and I can't stress that enough....we are alot closer to this than anyone thinks.



el_maco said:


> well the current president is there for a electoral fraud, im not sure about calling him my president


Are you talking about George Bush or Vicente Fox?



skunkushybrid said:


> Back in the 80's your president, Ronald Reagan invested billions of dollars into a programme named Star Wars. I believe these were satellites equipped with lasers that would fire upon anything we wanted them to as they came towards our atmosphere. Funding ran out and the project was closed down. Or was it? I've never believed that after so much money spent that they decided to just forget the whole thing, I believe they accomplished their goal and wanted to keep it quiet.


Your absolutely correct in assuming they finished this. There's no way in hell we (the US) invested all that time, money, and effort just to abort something that the USSR did not agree with.


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## skunkushybrid (Jul 19, 2007)

What's in my head at the moment is the mars ice caps. They would have been spotted years ago, if they were there. Now they are there, did we put them there, or is it a natural occurence of the sun getting hotter? The latter meaning, that because of the sun's heat generation Earth will naturally become uninhabitable very quickly, while mars will do the opposite.

I'm suspiscious though of those beagle missions. With the technology we have today it wouldn't surprise me if we are responsible for those ice caps. It wouldn't surprise me to see mars generating an atmosphere closer to ours.

Ever seen mars? It looks just like Earth from down here. It becomes visible in our skies around late feb' early march, I think. A lot of people mistake it for the moon, even though it's daylight.


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## Erniedytn (Jul 19, 2007)

Man I could go on for hours about all the shit I've read about Mars. 

Supposedly we sent an entire crew to Mars sometime in the early 90's. It was a joint effort between all the countries involved in the international space station. Supposedly their fate was the same as the rover, and Russias' Phobos.....dissapeared without a trace. I've even read stories that video transmissions were recieved showing the astronauts being wiped out by some kind of Reptilian race of aliens. I'm not going to drone on about all the shit I read from the UFO community, but you get my drift.

I don't know how credible this is, but like you said, those ice caps were not there before, so whatever the case may be, someone or something has been messing with Mars' atmosphere. If the suns' temperature has changed enough for ice caps to form on Mars, I think we would definately be feeling a drastic increase (this coming from someone who lives in hurricane alley...lol).


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## Pizip (Jul 19, 2007)

anal probs...
What an experiment.


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## Erniedytn (Aug 8, 2007)

Interesting read:
People of the Web - The Real X Files


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## Erniedytn (Sep 20, 2007)

If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. Citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their vehicles?


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## natmoon (Sep 20, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. Citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their vehicles?


They is probably worried that the aliens may give some good weed to the citizens and make them think for themselves


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 22, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. Citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their vehicles?


Come on Ernie, 1969? You guys (americans) have been paranoid about aliens for years. A spoof news reel had you all screaming, running for the hills.

I bet they could do that again today in your country and get very similar results.

This alien thing is just the same as belief in a creator, in fact I'm sure i've heard (read, whatever) you jig-saw the two together before. 

I believe there are alien life forms, you only need to look in the very depths of our oceans to see that. Life survives where it had been hereto believed it couldn't. I just don't believe they've visited this planet, nor that they'd have the technology to do so. If they did have TECHNOLOGY, this takes much resources, you only need to look at our planet to see that. 

What would we do if we came across some aliens that were less advanced than ourselves? Now I realise that these aliens you speak of are not us, but we speak for the majority of life forms on this planet. We all behave the same. That's a billion different life forms that behave the same way... It doesn't make any real sense that these aliens you speak of (with the technology to build flying saucers, and kidnap people for experiments) are anything but the same as us. The evidence points towards this, and if this were the case, then these Aliens would take over our little society and teach us all how to live properly, just like we'd do.

Almost forgot, how's it going Ernie?

lol, You know that's a joke.


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## Erniedytn (Sep 24, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Come on Ernie, 1969? You guys (americans) have been paranoid about aliens for years. A spoof news reel had you all screaming, running for the hills.
> 
> I bet they could do that again today in your country and get very similar results.
> 
> ...


 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...that was actually a "useless bit of trivia" I found on the internet. I just wanted to throw it out there and see what kind of responses I got.

I have to agree with the ocean life thing. I was watching "Blue Planet-Seas of Life" the other night, and was absolutely dumbfounded over the life forms that live near the thermal vents at the deepest parts of the oceans. Don't remember all the details now (damn side effects), but you should check it out...very, very interesting.


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## mastakoosh (Sep 24, 2007)

Main Entry:	*ar·ro·gance* 
Pronunciation:	'er-&-g&n(t)s, 'a-r&-
Function:	_noun_
*:* an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 24, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...that was actually a "useless bit of trivia" I found on the internet. I just wanted to throw it out there and see what kind of responses I got.
> 
> I have to agree with the ocean life thing. I was watching "Blue Planet-Seas of Life" the other night, and was absolutely dumbfounded over the life forms that live near the thermal vents at the deepest parts of the oceans. Don't remember all the details now (damn side effects), but you should check it out...very, very interesting.


I have. i've watched many documentaries like that... i'm always amazed too. But it helped me tie in Darwins theories very nicely. Some life-forms evolve and move up in the ocean. Some even go backwards (maybe to rethink their evolutionary processes), as though their evolved form isn't quite good enough and they need to go back and change it.

The proof of evolution, of alien life even, is clearly evident in the deepest part of our oceans.


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## fdd2blk (Sep 24, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> I have. i've watched many documentaries like that... i'm always amazed too. But it helped me tie in Darwins theories very nicely. Some life-forms evolve and move up in the ocean. Some even go backwards (maybe to rethink their evolutionary processes), as though their evolved form isn't quite good enough and they need to go back and change it.
> 
> The proof of evolution, of alien life even, is clearly evident in the deepest part of our oceans.



that explains our government.


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## devilwacause (Sep 24, 2007)

To put it quite simply, there "has" to be something else out there. I'm not saying they are as intelligent as us, nor am I saying they have visited us. However, with an ever expanding universe it would be utter ignorance and arrogance to believe that we are a "special case" in the view of evolution. (Don't believe in evolution? Creationism doesn't disprove this case, especially with the findings in the 50s-60s that organic molecules could be formed under extreme conditions found on forming planets.)

I believe that God, or whatever higher power you wish to attribute creation to - though omnipresent and all powerful - created the universe like one of us might go and buy an aquarium and fill it with different kinds of fish. Perhaps God did do all the things religion tells us he did, or perhaps God just needed a "science fair project." But either way - to say that an all powerful being created us as a special case and a special being is just the human mind needing to find a reason for life and death.

But back to the original topic - Aliens. Can we be sure they exist - no. Is the possibility extremely feasible? - yes.


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 25, 2007)

devilwacause said:


> To put it quite simply, there "has" to be something else out there. I'm not saying they are as intelligent as us, nor am I saying they have visited us. However, with an ever expanding universe it would be utter ignorance and arrogance to believe that we are a "special case" in the view of evolution. (Don't believe in evolution? Creationism doesn't disprove this case, especially with the findings in the 50s-60s that organic molecules could be formed under extreme conditions found on forming planets.)
> 
> I believe that God, or whatever higher power you wish to attribute creation to - though omnipresent and all powerful - created the universe like one of us might go and buy an aquarium and fill it with different kinds of fish. Perhaps God did do all the things religion tells us he did, or perhaps God just needed a "science fair project." But either way - to say that an all powerful being created us as a special case and a special being is just the human mind needing to find a reason for life and death.
> 
> But back to the original topic - Aliens. Can we be sure they exist - no. Is the possibility extremely feasible? - yes.


Creationism ties itself into evolution these days, BECAUSE IT HAS TO. Creationists long lambasted Darwins theories, now as more and more evidence to support his theories come to light, creationism has been losing its grip on the masses... so just like it incorporated rock music to capture the minds of the youth, creationism now likewise incorporates evolution.

Trouble is, evolution does not listen whatsoever to creationism. Life did not start from a multitude of different lifeforms... it started from one single strand of protein, and an easily adaptable environment. All life is related, all life is the same... we just grew differently.

The god you are searching for is merely a catalyst for the birth of the universe. Your gods real name is The Big Bang.


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## devilwacause (Sep 25, 2007)

I dont claim to know of a "God" I just find it within my natural mind to believe in a higher presence. Do I believe he said humans are humans, fish are fish, weed is weed...no - I think if there was a higher power involved he just gave everything the bump to get started. Hence the "Science Fair Project"


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## devilwacause (Sep 25, 2007)

Otherwise, I accept both freely, that is until somebody can explain how matter in the universe started off in one tiny ass spot and then just suddenly boom. I mean dont get me wrong yea I accept it happened....I just saying, what made the matter to start with? But back to aliens lol


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## Erniedytn (Oct 3, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> I think this is just a really fucked up and deformed person, but its trippy as hell:
> 
> YouTube - E.T Capturado Pela Nasa - Part1=


This is actually a music video! I found out more about it today; it's pretty fuckin cool too. Here is the entire video:

Rubber Johnny

Here is some history on it:



> _*Rubber Johnny is a six-minute experimental short film and music video directed by Chris Cunningham in 2005, using music composed by Aphex Twin. The name Rubber Johnny is drawn from a British slang for "condom" as well as a description of the main character, which explains the title sequence. The DVD comes with an art book, containing stills from the film, as well as conceptual drawings, photographs and more.*_
> _*The concept for Rubber Johnny came from Cunningham imagining a raver morphing as he danced. The idea evolved to the present film, in which Johnny (played by Cunningham) is an isolated deformed (possibly hydrocephalus) teenager kept on a wheelchair and locked in a dark basement with his chihuahua. Given his situation, he spends his life imagining all kinds of musical psychedelia to entertain himself.*_
> _*The film was originally intended to be a 30 second TV commercial for the Aphex Twin album drukqs, using the track "afx237 v7". However, Cunningham grew to like the concept more and more and decided to expand the concept into a longer length (the original commercial remains in the film in an altered form.) The film was shot partially in infrared night vision on digital video. The film's music is "afx237 v7 (w19rhbasement remix)", a remix made by Cunningham; the credits music is "gwarek2", also from drukqs.*_


_*Read more here:*_

_*Rubber Johnny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*_


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## Erniedytn (Oct 25, 2007)

> Roswell Crash Anonymous Letter
> 
> This letter was sent to Art and arrived on April 18, 1996. Along with this letter were pieces of various metals and electronic style components.
> 
> ...


Roswell Crash Letter: From Art Bell's Web Site


2nd Anonymous letter:
Second Anonymous Letter To Bell


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## Erniedytn (Oct 30, 2007)

JFK last speech


*



My fellow Americans, people of the world, today we set forth on a journey into a new era. One age, the childhood of mankind, is ending and another age is about to begin.

The journey of which I speak is full of unknowable challenges, but I believe that all our yesterdays, all the struggles of the past, have uniquely prepared our generation to prevail.

Citizens of this Earth, we are not alone. God, in His infinite wisdom, has seen fit to populate His universe with other beings -- intelligent creatures such as ourselves.

How can I state this with such authority? In the year 1947 our military forces recovered from the dry New Mexico desert the remains of an aircraft of unknown origin. Science soon determined that this vehicle came from the far reaches of outer space. Since that time our government has made contact with the creators of that spacecraft.

Though this news may sound fantastic -- and indeed, terrifying -- I ask that you not greet it with undue fear or pessimism. I assure you, as your President, that these beings mean us no harm.

Rather, they promise to help our nation overcome the common enemies of all mankind -- tyranny, poverty, disease, war.

We have determined that they are not foes, but friends.

Together with them we can create a better world. I cannot tell you that there will be no stumbling or missteps on the road ahead.

But I believe that we have found the true destiny of the people of this great land: To lead the world into a glorious future.

In the coming days, weeks and months, you will learn more about these visitors, why they are here and why our leaders have kept their presence a secret from you for so long.

I ask you to look to the future not with timidity but with courage. Because we can achieve in our time the ancient vision of peace on Earth and prosperity for all humankind.

God bless you.


Click to expand...

*


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## rob the pot head (Nov 1, 2007)

wtf i doubt that's a real speech


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## rob the pot head (Nov 1, 2007)

and btw I do believe in Aliens... only for one reason.

I've seen them with my own two eyes. As a kid I would go to the mountains in Mexico where my family had a cabin. Seeing UFO's was almost sorta common, turned into a little fun activity while over there. SItting on the balcony at night looking at the sky. I was always scared shitless. I remmeber one time in broad day light I saw two flying saucers really close to the ground. I asked everyone around me and they all said they were flying saucers. It sounds real wierd now but back then I was just a little kid and had no reference point on what I was seeing. I shoulda taken pictures... 

btw, I wasn't like 4 or 5 more like 10 or 11, so I knew what I was seeing.


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## Erniedytn (Nov 1, 2007)

Did you look at the link for the speech?


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## rob the pot head (Nov 1, 2007)

Yea I read it... but I looked at some of the other postings on that 2012 website and the more I read the more they seemed a bit far fetched... maybe I'm just not fully informed on the whole "star people" thing. It is interesting though...


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## natmoon (Nov 1, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Did you look at the link for the speech?


I did look and i have to admit that no one knows what is true and what is not and anyone could say that he was going to say anything in all reality.
However nothing would surprise me and i remain open minded.

The main thing that niggles me about this supposed speech is that it states that these aliens will help us get rid of diseases and war etc. but it would seem to me that we have even more war and disease than ever before.

So either the aliens lied,JFK never said any of it or everything went pear shaped somehow,because this planet is far from peaceful and disease free to say the least


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## Erniedytn (Nov 1, 2007)

natmoon said:


> I did look and i have to admit that no one knows what is true and what is not and anyone could say that he was going to say anything in all reality.
> However nothing would surprise me and i remain open minded.


You are right natmoon...no one knows for sure. I am not a firm believer in the fact that JFK was indeed going to give this speech, just thought I would throw it out there for all to see.



natmoon said:


> The main thing that niggles me about this supposed speech is that it states that these aliens will help us get rid of diseases and war etc. but it would seem to me that we have even more war and disease than ever before.
> 
> So either the aliens lied,JFK never said any of it or everything went pear shaped somehow,because this planet is far from peaceful and disease free to say the least


I could write a whole freaking book on the supposed why's and why nots of this. If a person is TRULY interested in this subject, and wants to investigate/understand the matter, you can watch this:

YouTube - UFO contact Alex Collier interviewed by Rick Keefe (1 of 12)

It's a 12 part series that lasts about 2 hours. Like I said...IF you are TRULY interested in the subject, have an open mind, and want to understand where we stand in this big universe...watch that.


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## natmoon (Nov 1, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> You are right natmoon...no one knows for sure. I am not a firm believer in the fact that JFK was indeed going to give this speech, just thought I would throw it out there for all to see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can be sure that i will watch all 12 of them later on this evening,i am very interested in AOOTO(anything out of the ordinary).
If you feel this way you should write an ebook and get it published online.
If you do this let me know and i promise to purchase a copy


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## rob the pot head (Nov 1, 2007)

I got one experience on the balcony of my family's cabin in Mexico which solidified it for me. It was very late and we were all looking at the stars and using a flashlight to make "signals." When all of a sudden these three beams of light came in a triangle shape and it was coming closer and closer until it was almost like daylight with brightness, all the while they held on to the triangle shape. The weird thing is no one (there was about 15 family members there) said a word. We were all just staring. It seemed to come up to us then suddenly all three lights dispersed into different directions and eventually left completely... that's when all of us starting screaming, kids started crying... it sounds so fake and surreal now that I think about it... I have never told these stories really and I have no clue why... When people ask me if I believe in aliens I just say yea, and don't say anything else... Seems weird now. it would seem like it would have changed my life or something but it just seemed normal because I was a little kid.


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## rob the pot head (Nov 1, 2007)

I guess I just assume no one will believe me.


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## Erniedytn (Nov 1, 2007)

rob the pot head said:


> I got one experience on the balcony of my family's cabin in Mexico which solidified it for me. It was very late and we were all looking at the stars and using a flashlight to make "signals." When all of a sudden these three beams of light came in a triangle shape and it was coming closer and closer until it was almost like daylight with brightness, all the while they held on to the triangle shape. The weird thing is no one (there was about 15 family members there) said a word. We were all just staring. It seemed to come up to us then suddenly all three lights dispersed into different directions and eventually left completely... that's when all of us starting screaming, kids started crying... it sounds so fake and surreal now that I think about it... I have never told these stories really and I have no clue why... When people ask me if I believe in aliens I just say yea, and don't say anything else... Seems weird now. it would seem like it would have changed my life or something but it just seemed normal because I was a little kid.


 
Kinda like this:
Triangle UFO flap in Belgium

UFOS at close sight: The Belgium flap videos

New UFO Wave Hits Belgium - UFO Evidence


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## rob the pot head (Nov 1, 2007)

Yea it was sorta like that cept the three lights seperated and went into different directions.


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## Erniedytn (Nov 28, 2007)

natmoon said:


> You can be sure that i will watch all 12 of them later on this evening,i am very interested in AOOTO(anything out of the ordinary).
> If you feel this way you should write an ebook and get it published online.
> If you do this let me know and i promise to purchase a copy


Wow I missed this post. Did you ever watch the series?


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## Erniedytn (Nov 28, 2007)

More interesting material:

Up Close With The Aliens: The Keepers 





> This is a video of the inside life of the Alien Grays: exactly what they are doing here, what their mission is, how they look, how they act and an inside glimpse of their tremendous mental powers and the abductions. Jim Sparks has been with them a countless number of times and recounts in great detail everything he has seen. This is an amazing preview of the Alien life, that is here and working.


Each vid is around 10 minutes long
Pt. 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtQ-aBSWZY0

Pt. 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEYMaIpkxQ4&feature=related

Pt. 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q7ZYBjWa4E&feature=related

Pt. 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZbQGQcotNY&feature=related

Pt. 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObqPcjNn0XM&feature=related

Pt. 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt_VqNDFIfc&feature=related

Pt. 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkvQXo0clis&feature=related

Pt. 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wmLuNxmx7c&feature=related

Pt. 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYEoJQ7HTkU&feature=related


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## natmoon (Nov 28, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Wow I missed this post. Did you ever watch the series?


Nope i only watched a couple of them and as always i was left wondering if the guy was in his own fantasy or if it was just in fact so fantastical and strange that even if it were true i would not believe it unless i saw it with my own eyes.
Was an interesting watch though and i will have a look at some of those other links you left later on


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## Erniedytn (Nov 28, 2007)

natmoon said:


> as always i was left wondering if the guy was in his own fantasy or if it was just in fact so fantastical and strange that even if it were true i would not believe it unless i saw it with my own eyes.
> Was an interesting watch though and i will have a look at some of those other links you left later on


It is indeed strange. Just imagine if what he says is the truth......it blows me away. I will say that this guy is very reputable within the UFO community. 

The other links are not quite as deep as the level to which Alex Colliers takes it, but it is another fascinating account of alien abduction.


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 29, 2007)

Sorry to butt in here guys... I do come in peace, and this is after all my thread...

Do you really believe this is real? Now, I'm not asking because I doubt myself... I just really want to know, if you honestly believe all this. I'm not asking for evidence, just total honesty. Is there not a doubt in your minds that Aliens have visited this planet? Honestly.


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## Erniedytn (Nov 29, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Sorry to butt in here guys... I do come in peace, and this is after all my thread...
> 
> Do you really believe this is real? Now, I'm not asking because I doubt myself... I just really want to know, if you honestly believe all this. I'm not asking for evidence, just total honesty. Is there not a doubt in your minds that Aliens have visited this planet? Honestly.


LOL...you're not butting in man. I like to get your input on this subject because it usually forces me to do more research to prove a point.

As far as the stories these guys are telling.......it's hard to say. Basically it boils down to you just have to take their word for it as they have no proof. 

Now...as far as aliens visiting the planet....I absolutely, 100%, hands down, no questions asked, believe that they have visited Earth for thousands of years. I believe they are still visiting Earth......and as I said quite some time ago, I believe that they have something to do with us being here


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## natmoon (Nov 29, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Sorry to butt in here guys... I do come in peace, and this is after all my thread...
> 
> Do you really believe this is real? Now, I'm not asking because I doubt myself... I just really want to know, if you honestly believe all this. I'm not asking for evidence, just total honesty. Is there not a doubt in your minds that Aliens have visited this planet? Honestly.


My honest opinion was that the guy was on acid

But then again i don't _really_ know anything about what really did or did not actually happen so i cannot condemn him as i do not know for sure.
So to be honest my opinion is that he is probably nuts or saying it to make money,but theres always the element of doubt when you cannot see all the facts how can you form a real 100% doubtless opinion?


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 29, 2007)

natmoon said:


> how can you form a real 100% doubtless opinion?


We do this all the time... we form doubtless opinions on many, many things. 

Our minds work on two levels... the subconscious and the conscious. the subconscious picks up all thoughts before they even become thoughts. Some we repress and others we allow to develop. The ones we allow to develop become known as truths to our conscious mind, the ones we keep subdued remain only truths to our subconscious mind these we may interpret as lies to our conscious mind also.

Within the subconscious mind is the answer to everything, all you have to do is ask.


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## flamable221 (Nov 29, 2007)

My UFO story rules.

Last August, I go on my roof to smoke a joint, before I light up I notice everything go completely mute, all the insects stopped making noise, I flicked the lighter and no sound came from it. Then a blue and red light fly over my head goin pretty damn fast, then makes a sharp left, then right, then flys away into space, and when it left everything was making noise again. 

it was so wierd.


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## Erniedytn (Nov 29, 2007)

All I can say is that my doubtless opinion comes from the all the evidence that surfaces worldwide on a daily basis. All you have to do is research the subject......the evidence is endless.


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## quadrophine (Nov 29, 2007)

I wonder what kind of shit they use to get high... I'd twist one up with an alien. wonder what weed grows like on other planets. with different colored suns.

would a red dwarf star kick the flower into overdrive???


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 29, 2007)

flamable221 said:


> My UFO story rules.
> 
> Last August, I go on my roof to smoke a joint, before I light up I notice everything go completely mute, all the insects stopped making noise, I flicked the lighter and no sound came from it. Then a blue and red light fly over my head goin pretty damn fast, then makes a sharp left, then right, then flys away into space, and when it left everything was making noise again.
> 
> it was so wierd.


So, this alien spacecraft made the area around you completely silent? So it killed all sound in the area... could you hear yourself breathe? 

Did the theme tune to Close Encounters of the Third Kind start playing as you noticed the lights? 

If not, I doubt very much you had an alien encounter. ha ha ha ha


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## preoQpydDlusion (Nov 29, 2007)

quadrophine said:


> would a red dwarf star kick the flower into overdrive???


depends on the stage of growth right?


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## Erniedytn (Nov 29, 2007)

flamable221 said:


> My UFO story rules.
> 
> Last August, I go on my roof to smoke a joint, before I light up I notice everything go completely mute, all the insects stopped making noise, I flicked the lighter and no sound came from it. Then a blue and red light fly over my head goin pretty damn fast, then makes a sharp left, then right, then flys away into space, and when it left everything was making noise again.
> 
> it was so wierd.


How far above your head was the object? Where did it come from? Did you get a look at the shape of the object? Do you live in the US or elsewhere? 

I have numerous reports of electronics failing when a UFO is present, but never all sound going mute.


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Nov 29, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> and as I said quite some time ago, I believe that they have something to do with us being here


Why the fuck would you say that? 

I just ate a biscuit I made from some very nice butter I made its from a Sativa (harvested early) and I was tripping like hell and on my way down then I read that and started crapping myself lol.

Seriously I would like to know why you said it.


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## Erniedytn (Nov 29, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> Why the fuck would you say that?
> 
> I just ate a biscuit I made from some very nice butter I made its from a Sativa (harvested early) and I was tripping like hell and on my way down then I read that and started crapping myself lol.
> 
> Seriously I would like to know why you said it.


I say that because it makes perfect sense. If you do research on this subject you will find reports of aliens and UFOs all the way back to the stone age. The cavemen drew pictures of the greys and UFOs on the cave walls. They were here long before civilized man was. Ever hear of the missing link? Well that's where they come in. I certainley do not believe that we evolved from monkeys through the courses of nature. And I sure as hell don't believe that some great invisible guy in the sky waved his hand and created us.


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## preoQpydDlusion (Nov 29, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> I was tripping like hell and on my way down then I read that and started crapping myself lol.


lol did you really get the shits?


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Nov 29, 2007)

preoQpydDlusion said:


> lol did you really get the shits?


Naah its just an English expression


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Nov 29, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> I say that because it makes perfect sense. If you do research on this subject you will find reports of aliens and UFOs all the way back to the stone age. The cavemen drew pictures of the greys and UFOs on the cave walls. They were here long before civilized man was. Ever hear of the missing link? Well that's where they come in. I certainley do not believe that we evolved from monkeys through the courses of nature. And I sure as hell don't believe that some great invisible guy in the sky waved his hand and created us.


Yeah I am not into the religious bit, Zeitgeist finally finished any remote hope of that for me. I could believe in Darwinism though even without the final proof. 

I was more interested in why you think they put us here, rather than if they did


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## Erniedytn (Nov 29, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> Yeah I am not into the religious bit, Zeitgeist finally finished any remote hope of that for me. I could believe in Darwinism though even without the final proof.
> 
> I was more interested in why you think they put us here, rather than if they did


IMO they put us here to use us as slaves at first, but then abandoned us as they had no use for the planet after the great flood, or "Noah's flood" if you will.


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Nov 29, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> IMO they put us here to use us as slaves at first, but then abandoned us as they had no use for the planet after the great flood, or "Noah's flood" if you will.


That's a bit like the basis to the many Stargate Series, I am interested in understanding more about what you beleive. I know all about Noah etc but has there been scientific evidence to prove that there was a great flood?

I thought one theory about Noah's Story was the reflooding of the Meditarranean after an ice age. Hold on its goes like this 

Plates crash Med seals
Med Evaporates
Water from Med Dilutes Sea (ie less salt)
Higher (c) freezing point for water
Ice Age


End of Ice Age
Med refloods at Gibraltar


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## Erniedytn (Nov 29, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> That's a bit like the basis to the many Stargate Series, I am interested in understanding more about what you beleive. I know all about Noah etc but has there been scientific evidence to prove that there was a great flood?
> 
> I thought one theory about Noah's Story was the reflooding of the Meditarranean after an ice age. Hold on its goes like this
> 
> ...


The only thing I have ever watched as far as Stargate goes is the original movie. I find the series a bit corny.

From what I understand there has indeed been scientific proof of the great flood. I covered some of it in here:
https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/16006-noahs-ark.html

I have researched aliens and UFOs since I was a kid. My beliefs come from everything I have gathered and then put together on my own. I am more than happy to discuss my beliefs with you, just give me some specific questions. If I can answer them now I will, but if something needs to be described in great detail I will have to wait until I get home to answer as I am at work right now.


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## Ethnobotanist (Nov 29, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> That's a bit like the basis to the many Stargate Series, I am interested in understanding more about what you beleive. I know all about Noah etc but has there been scientific evidence to prove that there was a great flood?
> 
> I thought one theory about Noah's Story was the reflooding of the Meditarranean after an ice age. Hold on its goes like this
> 
> ...


I'm speaking in whatever capacity I have as an anthropologist/archaeologist here. There is evidence of a flood on a massive scale in the Mediterranean/Middle East during the early Sumerian period, according to geological evidence. Several cultures around the world, ranging from East Asia, Africa, to parts of Latin America have a story of a flood in their folk history or cultural mythos.

In the Mediterranean and Middle East, most of the myths have some story of a boat being built by divine command. In Greece and Rome, it was Deukalion, in ancient Israel, Noah. The Epic of Gilgamesh (the oldest existing literary epic) from Babylon/Akkadia related the story of Utnapishtim, which is strikingly similar to the Biblical story, but with a few major differences. The Sumerian equivalent is a figure named Ziusudra; his story basically matches that related in the Gilgamesh Epic. In some stories, animals are involved, in others, no mention is made.

So, it's likely there was a massive flood that affected some parts of the world to different degrees, but it was localized in central Asia. The geological evidence as we have it only gives conclusive proof of such a natural disaster located in the Fertile Crescent, in what is now Iraq/Iran. The figure of the ship-builder and his family is likely descended from a common culturally shared oral history that may be partially based on real events. However, the extent of the historicity and reach of the event will probably never be conclusively proven. But it's definately interesting stuff, especially to mythologists and anthropologists, as it is one of the few stories that is so widespread. But the archaeological and geological evidence doesn't point to an event of Biblical proportions.

That's my two cents.

~Ethno


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Nov 29, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> The only thing I have ever watched as far as Stargate goes is the original movie. I find the series a bit corny.
> 
> From what I understand there has indeed been scientific proof of the great flood. I covered some of it in here:
> https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/16006-noahs-ark.html
> ...


All the series are very corny but they dull my mind before sleep. I too believe there are alien life forms out there and its probably impossible for there not to be.

I guess I know the actual chances (as science determines now) of us meeting each other are impossible. I also know what science understands now will change for our children.

For aliens to visit earth, here I start getting a little patchy and when I saw your post saying they farmed us for slaves, I thought it a very bold statement and wondered what led you to say this. I have been reading the noah's arc stuff and it spirals into many sites. 

I asked why you stated they farmed us and you answered for slaves but why? How do we know it was for slaves? What type of work were we used for ? and why did we cease to be useful after the great flood?

Can you sum it up for me so I can go and research some more about your hypotheses. I will continue to read the Noah's Ark stuff its interesting 

All the best


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## Ethnobotanist (Nov 29, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> The only thing I have ever watched as far as Stargate goes is the original movie. I find the series a bit corny.
> 
> From what I understand there has indeed been scientific proof of the great flood. I covered some of it in here:
> https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/16006-noahs-ark.html
> ...


Check out the first season of Stargate SG-1. The series got to be much more traditionally "sci-fi" as it developed and reached for new storylines. But the first few episodes of the first season especially are almost credible. They prided themselves on scientific and military accuracy early on. If you watch nothing else, rent the first DVD and watch the Pilot, called "Children of the Gods". It's good stuff.

I'm not one to criticize the spiritual beliefs of anyone, but while I'm convinced life has evolved on other planets, believing intelligent life exists is just that- belief. It can't be proven any more than the Flying Spaghetti Monster or any traditional religious system. And I've listened to many an eclectic new-ager relate stories of the "Star Children" and the intergalactic wars related by remote viewers between the "greys", "reds", etcetera. I see no reason why it is anymore credible than the Space Opera of Scientologists and the enslavement of Thetans who are trapped in human bodies by the evil alien overlord Xenu. But, it can't be proven either way. If it could, it likely would have been already, and as I said, I don't have the answers either. I can neither support or refute it better than anyone else.

~Ethno


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## flamable221 (Nov 29, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> How far above your head was the object? Where did it come from? Did you get a look at the shape of the object? Do you live in the US or elsewhere?
> 
> I have numerous reports of electronics failing when a UFO is present, but never all sound going mute.



I am from Seacoast New Hampshire, it was at night, so I only saw a couple of lights, one red, and one white, about 1/3-1/2 mile above me, it was going pretty fast, over the speed of sound, then as it went into the distance it made a sharp upwards left, then sudden right and vanished.


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## Erniedytn (Nov 29, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> For aliens to visit earth, here I start getting a little patchy and when I saw your post saying they farmed us for slaves, I thought it a very bold statement and wondered what led you to say this. I have been reading the noah's arc stuff and it spirals into many sites.
> 
> I asked why you stated they farmed us and you answered for slaves but why? How do we know it was for slaves? What type of work were we used for ? and why did we cease to be useful after the great flood?
> 
> ...


Theory 1:

Here are a few links:

Nibiru - Crystalinks

SlowMotionDoomsday.Com - Planet X Nibiru

As you will see in the links the inhabitants of Nibiru came here to mine gold. They created us to do the work for them. After a while there were a few who started using using us for other tasks such as bulding the Pyramids. I'm not sure if you know much about the Jewish faith, but the Hebrews were "gods chosen people".

Theory 2:
They created us as an experiment so to speak, to eventually use us in their attempts to heal their own kind. The links I posted earlier on the coast to coast am radio broadcasts covers this.

Theory 3:
The greys did not create us but we are in fact descendants of another alien race known as the Pleadians. The links I posted to the Alex Colliers interview covers this in great detail.

I am more prone to believe theory 1 or 2. If you watch the Alex Colliers interview you will see that it is quite a tale, even for people like me who are die hard UFO/alien buffs.


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## Erniedytn (Nov 29, 2007)

Ethnobotanist said:


> Check out the first season of Stargate SG-1. The series got to be much more traditionally "sci-fi" as it developed and reached for new storylines. But the first few episodes of the first season especially are almost credible. They prided themselves on scientific and military accuracy early on. If you watch nothing else, rent the first DVD and watch the Pilot, called "Children of the Gods". It's good stuff.
> 
> ~Ethno


I will have to check them out. I always wondered if Hollywood just dreamed up stories like this or if they have inside info, but air it as "Sci-Fi" to make the people see it as just that......science fiction.


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Nov 30, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Theory 1:
> 
> Here are a few links:
> 
> ...


I am reading reading reading thank you for answering my questions, will read more tomorrow this is just to acknowledge you taking your time to inform me 

All the best


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## Erniedytn (Nov 30, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> I am reading reading reading thank you for answering my questions, will read more tomorrow this is just to acknowledge you taking your time to inform me
> 
> All the best


No problem man....I figured that's what you were doing...LOL. I have lost myself on the internet reading about this stuff for DAYS!!!!!!


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Dec 2, 2007)

Hi Ernie 

I have another quick question if you have the time. 

Why is it that most of the stuff regarding aliens (or many other strange phenomena) seems to be in the USA? 

You have Area 51 whcih I don't really know what is going on there other than its highly classified. The Bermuda Triangle was popular when I was a kid does weird stuff still happen there? There just seems to be more sightings happen in the US than anywhere else in the world (no proof just observation). 

Why is the US so special for this type of event? Maybe because you have the most advanced technology perhaps or maybe you just have more unused habitable space than anyone else.

Just an observation / question. 

One more thing, remember Zeitgeist and the "Ages" and the prophets and how they tied that into Pagan beliefs. If you really take the start of the last two ages as being the birth of Moses and the birth of Christ, would you imagine this could be tied into alien visits in anyway? Perhaps the prophets did exist in some form and were here to correct a wayward society.

Maybe you don't relate paganism (to me this is a form of religion based on the study of stars the earth and ours skies ie. nature, sorry to offend anyone who knows exactly what it is) to alien visits.

I am tired and my mind is wondering and I have had a lot of wine but I love to try and be open minded and explore what people have to say.

All the best

Edit ok that was not 1 quick question


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## flamable221 (Dec 2, 2007)

There was a show on the History Channel about UFOs in the bible. It's rather fascinating to think aliens could in some part be part of the bible, but you can't rule out other space objects, (comets/asteroids/meteors) other things that people did not know about that appeared in the sky.


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> Hi Ernie
> 
> I have another quick question if you have the time.
> 
> ...


Actually when it comes to sightings and ancient alien encounters, that is worldwide:

OpenDNS

Mexico City UFO Footage

UFO Sightings Worldwide (December 2002)

Ufos in Shanghai China alien space ships Europe UFOs British UFOs in Asia Chian ufos news

Chinese and Hindu UFO's Alien Visitation History

It is also widely believed in the UFO community that after the Roswell crash in New Mexico in 1947 (or some years after) that the US government made a deal with the Greys; they give us technology and we let them abduct people. Once again, the Alex Colliers interview covers this in gret detail. Here is something else I found on that subject as well:

U.S. Government made a deal with the EBE's (grey aliens)

I do believe that the "prophets" were just people who had alien encounters. It was said that Mohammed "ascended into the heavens" from the temple mount via a great white light. The Muslims call this the "miraj". Moses talked to a "burning bush" at the top of Mount Sanai, then descended with "The 10 Commandments"...the supreme law of the land. IMO all these things were our alien creators trying to keep us in check, and dumb to the true reality of things.


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## natmoon (Dec 3, 2007)

This bloke has just reappeared from nowhere after 5 years,maybe of interest to you all

Police to interview canoeist back from the dead - Yahoo! News UK


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

Here are some historical alien visitation accounts:



> In 1938, archeologist Chi Pu Tei discovered a strange alignment of graves in the Baian Kara Ula Mountains, near the Sino-Tibetan border. Also found were cave drawings illustrating beings wearing helmets, the stars, sun and moon. There were also reports of the discovery of small, frail skeletons with unusually large skulls. In 1962, a strange record-like disk found among the graves was translated by professor Tsum Um Nui. The translation tells an eerie tale of how a group of beings crash landed on the third planet in this star system approximately twelve thousand years ago. Repairs to their craft were appearently unsuccessful and so attempts were made to befriend the local mountain tribes. But instead, (out of fear) the beings were hunted down and killed for their nonhuman appearance.
> 
> 
> The relevance of this story is the time in which the event was recorded. It was long before the influence of the government, tv and the media could corrupt information. They wrote simply what occured at the sight, for they had no knowledge we would find it centuries later. What reason would there be for the recording of an event that never happened, in a time when long distance communication would have been completely unheard of, let alone understood? The events described on the disk were more then likely recorded as best they understood of the circumstances. Here you will find a more detailed account of the event: Dropas Crash: 12,000 BC
> ...


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

Part 2:



> The _Mayans_ believed their predecessors came from the _Pleiades_. The Mayan Indians of Central America knew the earth was round centuries before the Europeans made this discovery. The _Popol Vuh_ states that several gods, including _Hunahpu, Xbalanque,_ and the great god-king _Quetzalcoatl_, returned to the stars after their earth life ended.
> 
> In India, it was and still is believed that man descended from gods who flew fiery crafts. Early Chinese texts tell of long-lived rulers from the heavens who flew in "fire-breathing dragons". In Tibet there is a book called the _Kantyua_, which means "the translated word of Buddha". It tells of flying "pearls in the sky" and of transparent spheres carrying gods to visit man. Here to, the belief is of being reborn time and time again and not just to earth. The _Royal Pedigrees of Tibetan Kings_ dates back to the seventh century. It states that the first seven Tibetan kings came from the stars, and goes on to say that they eventually returned to the stars.
> 
> ...


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

Part 3:




> Native Americans tell a story of remarkable similarities, about the history of man. This story has its start on August 13, 1947, not long after the famous _Roswell_ crash. Six Native Americans supposedly, came upon a smoldering metallic object in the New Mexico desert. Inside was an injured but very much alive alien being. For fear of the military's capture of the being, they decided to take the being home to care for it. To their amazement, the being was able to communicate images through the use of a small crystal device. Robert Morning Sky, grandson of one of the rescuers, tells the message of the being known to them as the "Star Elder". He claims that the beings name was Bak'Ti and that he has pieced together parts of man's early history from the teachings of the Star Elder. He states that the "Star People" have always been here, since the earth was a barren rock. It was indicated that there had been much involvement with the human species, some benevolent, some not, throughout our evolution. According to Morning Sky's _Terra Papers_, humans were created through DNA manipulation, to be used as workers for alien mining operations on earth. At one point, an alien leader and brother competed for control of earth and so the leader mixed some of his own DNA into the gene pool, making the humans his children, so to speak. Other DNA was introduced from a bird-like race of high emotions and soulfulness. Over time, two very different humans emerged. One, a docile, easily controlled human, and an emotional and intelligent human, soon to develop independent will. At one point, a fraction of aliens tried to destroy the willful humans by casting them into the wilderness to die and later to face the "Great Floods". However, the creator/leader managed to save a group of humans. Later, an alien leader named _Ra_, (perhaps the ancient sun god of the Egyptians) sought to eliminate all evidence of man's true history, in an effort to keep the humans ignorant and controllable. But, it is said that Ra lost to an alien race descended from reptiles, which might be known today as the "Greys" or perhaps the reptilians you sometimes hear about.
> 
> Dr. Javier Cabrera Darquea, a respected medical doctor of Ica, Peru, has a private museum that includes over 15,000 engraved stones. These "picture rocks" or petroglyphs, were discovered when an earthquake caused a landslide on land owned by his father in Sallas. They range in size from very small to giant boulders. It is believed that they originate from lava flows dating back to the Mesozoic Period, perhaps some 230 million years ago. The images seem to show a human species living amongst the dinosaurs. There are pictures of five-fingered humanoids fighting off giant reptiles with what look like battleaxes. The stones show many different and wonderous things, even what appears to be open-heart surgery. Some depict genetic engineers trying to create Homo Sapiens, first using amphibious life, then reptilian, and eventually early mammals. Some stones show the creation of humanoids without opposing thumbs, which may indicate that they predate the apes, as even the earliest apes had opposing thumbs. There is also what appears to be a second breed created with less intelligence then the _protohumans_, but these humans had opposing thumbs. It is thought that they were created as "worker bees" to perform labor tasks. The doctor theorizes from the images, that at some point great catastrophies destroyed large numbers of the intellectual humanoids and they made preparations to leave Earth, leaving mostly the lower intellectuals, those with opposing thumbs, behind.
> 
> ...


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

natmoon said:


> This bloke has just reappeared from nowhere after 5 years,maybe of interest to you all
> 
> Police to interview canoeist back from the dead - Yahoo! News UK


Very interesting indeed. Too bad it doesn't say where the hell he has been


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 3, 2007)

I read something before about the tenth planet in our solar sytem. I don't remember much, just have a dim memory of it.


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

More reading material:



> Is there evidence to support the claims of UFO and alien visitation? Many people claim that there is. Several valid points can be made on both sides of the argument. While some look to the stars for answers, others are looking right in our own backyard, here on Earth. Are crop circles, cattle mutilations, strange lights in the sky, claims of nightly visitation, unexplainable missing pregnancies and implants, all a piece of the big puzzle? Or are we just kidding ourselves with myths, legends and misconceptions, to better enhance the mystery and isolation of life on Earth? Who can say for sure? All we can do at this point is to take it upon ourselves to research and investigate whatever clues are available to us. By looking into the many mysteries surrounding ancient history and folklore, we may find some of the answers we are searching for.
> 
> 
> Is man responsible for such great monuments as the Pyramids of Egypt, Stonehendge, the ancient Peruvian city of Sacsahuaman and the giant stone statues of Easter Island? If so, then this may indicate that great amounts of knowledge have been lost at some point, for it would be very difficult (if not impossible) to replicate such monuments today. Did Atlantis really exist or is it just a legend to spark the imagination? In 1941 Edgar Cayce, while in a trance-like state, prophecized that a _Hall of Records_ would be discovered under the _Sphinx_ in Egypt, around the end of the 20th century. Edgar also stated that the contents of these records will prove the existence of Atlantis. Time will tell if this prediction comes to light. Cayce, known as the _Sleeping Prophet_, made a living curing uncurable illnesses. He believed in reincarnation and also believed that his abilities stemmed from being able to channel the knowledge of his past lives, while in an altered state of consciousness. He also claimed that one of his past lives was as an _Atlantean_. Cayce predicted that the western edge of Atlantis would begin to reappear near Bimini in the Bahamas, in 1968 or 1969. Twenty-three years after his death, in 1968, divers discovered the ruins of prehistoric walls and roads off the coast of Bimini. A two-hundred foot long stretch of interlocking rock is believed to be a stone road or the top of a great submerged rampart. Large barrel-shaped objects were also found that could be the remains of giant stone pillars. Skeptical geologists discount this discovery as _Beach Rock_, and claim the breaks in the rock are natural. Besides prescribing (sometimes strange but successful) remedies for countless individuals, Edgar Cayce is known for predicting the exact date for the end of World War II and the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Cayce died in 1945. Some people, such as Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval, claim that a chamber of nine rooms has already been discovered under the Sphinx, but that the Egyptian government continues to keep this a secret. Some speculate that this isn't persued more because of fear of possible revelations that might contradict current belief systems, or as some put it, what we are told to believe by those who control the information.
> ...


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

Part 2:





> 1. Of course, there is the mainstream belief, that life on Earth started from single-celled organisms - to complex organisms, from the waters - to eventually develop the ability to survive on land...and, oh yeah, we evolved from primates. This is a sort of natural evolution where no intervention from outside influences, such as alien visitors, has taken place. We have evolved naturally, and have reached our present state, all by ourselves.
> 
> 2. The second is that we didn't evolve from "monkeys", but that man and ape share a common ancestor. Many believe that if you go back far enough, you will find that we originate from the same animal, but at some point something occured that changed us, and separated us from the other primates. This caused us to evolve in a different direction, maybe even accellerated our evolution. What this _something_ was is unknown, but it may have occured at more then one point in our history. This could be from interactions and knowledge obtained from contact with visitors from other worlds or dimensions. On the evolutionary scale, man has made major technological jumps, virtually overnight. Alien intervention is the idea behind this scenario, but it is unclear whether the advancements and knowledge obtained have always been in our best interest.
> 
> ...


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

Part 3:



> While not appearing to be in order of importance, it is argued that one through four seem almost out of place. Five through ten appear to be very good rules to live by, although seen as common sense for most of us. Number one blows our Freedom of Religion Act out of the water, although there are many more religions then that of the _One God_ that are far older. With the exception of Christianity, most don't believe or at least don't claim to be the only one true way. The fact that 1 through 4 seem to mainly deal with and benefit the source or god referred to in them, has caused a new possibility to arise among some ufo believers. This idea is that perhaps some of our religions, ancient myths, legends, and even such things as the Ten Commandments, etc...may have an alien origin. Some believe that religion may have been given to man in a time when we were young an ignorant, and needed guidance. Some will even argue that the source for this guidance may have been a higher evolved intelligence such as alien visitors. One must ask themself, what is the purpose of 1 through 3 if they are indeed coming from an all knowing, all loving god, creator of all things? Is there no room for human error? Can any of these acts not be forgiven? 1 through 3 seem to be attempts in making sure that you stay faithful to only one god or being, and to do otherwise would be a horrendous act against the faith. This mind-set seems to pertain primarily to a material _God_, giving almost human qualities to it, not the growing belief that _God_ is more of an energy or lifeforce that emanates throughout all things and connects us on some level we don't yet understand. I don't like even mentioning the term _God_ in the light of such strong belief systems of the many different cultures of the world, but many are leaning towards the belief that all things together as one, make up _God_, all things we know and have yet to know. In this respect, the phrase _We are all Gods children_ may indeed be true. The view that would hold _God_ as a seperate being, much higher evolved than man, here for our sole benefit, watching over Earth, to be worshipped or foresaken (sometimes even punished) by, seems to be a slowly fading one.
> 
> 
> Looking back now, it's hard to believe that there was a time when we would punish, torture, exile, and even kill those that went against a certain faith or just chose to live or believe in their own way, all in the name of _God_, but imposed by man. How is one to know which religion to choose when there are so many to choose from? Or perhaps it really doesn't matter which you choose, it's more in the way you choose to live and the decisions you make. Some argue, what is the purpose of their creation if they were created only to serve or worship a god? Some have even argued that if there is only one true "way", then that "way" should make itself more evident. I personally, don't hold myself to any one religion. The die-hard believer might argue that Moses talking to God sounds a lot like telepathic communications from an alien source, and all the other events associated with him such as the burning bush, parting of the Red Sea, objects in the sky, and other miracles, were just misinterpreted encounters and the intervention of alien visitors. Countless other tales from ancient times have been subjected to the same new age, somewhat radical theories. Imagine if you could go back in time and interact with what most would refer to as a caveman. How would you be described if this person had the ability to document the encounter? Simple things to us, such as fire or perhaps even a radio might seems like miracles. You might even be viewed as a god yourself. How did the concept of _Gods_ realm or _Heaven_ being up, the sky, stars or space, originate? Did man have advanced visitors long, long ago that came down from the sky (the heavens) in _fiery crafts_ and were thereafter viewed as gods? Since science and religion went their separate ways ages ago, events have often been relayed to others differently, depending on the point of view and beliefs of the one telling the event. There are locations around the world that people go to regularly to catch a glimpse of God, the Mother Mary, etc...While some see images of Mary, others see UFO's. Maybe it depends on what you believe you will see that influences the visual people get at such events, if there is truely something to see in the first place. A true skeptic might brush it off as mass hallucinations by people wanting to see something incredible.
> ...


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 3, 2007)

If they want to pay a visit, I'd be the first guy to say "Hi...", like you said, if they been coming here this long then they obviously mean us no harm.


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Dec 3, 2007)

OK Ernie I got 10 more links to follow just from that. 

Again thanks for your time


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> OK Ernie I got 10 more links to follow just from that.
> 
> Again thanks for your time


Hey no problem man. Did you read all the info I posted? I know it was alot, but it pretty much sums up everything.


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## daddychrisg (Dec 3, 2007)

Wow, your work here is huge Ernie. Please tell me that you cut and pasted alot of that info! Thanks for all the great reads, and links. I will throw in my two cents at some point..Thanks again


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## Ethnobotanist (Dec 3, 2007)

Wow. Just... wow.

I was going to say something regarding the massive un-scientific distortions espoused by those who proclaim these "ancient astronaut theories", but then I realized it would just fall on deaf ears. Ah, the hell with it. I'll speak my peace.

As I said before, I believe there is absolutely some form of life on other heavenly bodies. It's possible that there may even be intelligent life out there. Though it's generally agreed that they would not resemble those popular depictions of bipeds who share our anatomy almost to a tee. These theories depend upon the aliens in question looking exactly like us.

Just keep in mind nearly every scientist in the world regards people such as Erich von Daniken and Zecharia Sitchin as about the looniest people to ever walk this earth along with UFO cult leaders like Rael of the Raelians and L. Ron Hubbard of Scientology. Erich even has a theme park devoted to his ideas, charging people a sum for a tour of his revisionist history and treating them to rides which feature his distortions of actual work done in anthropology and physics. Although no one in the scientific community entertains their ideas, people like Erich and Zecharia are actually seen as pariahs by various educational establishments since they sway so many that are unfamiliar with the actual work done in these scientific fields.

I honestly respect you Ernie, but surely you know that their work is no more credible than the work of creation scientists who believe God created the world in seven days... 6,000 years ago. Their theories run almost contrary to everything we know anthopologically, historically, geologically, linguistically, sociologically, and archaeologically. More often than not, they get what science they do feature in their work wrong (especially regarding physics, astronomy, genetics, and archaeology), and present no empirical evidence for their "findings". As an anthropologist, it's sort of insulting that they discredit the work of people who have spent their entire lives uncovering the truth about past civilizations so they may desperately fit it into their beliefs regarding extraterrestrials.

And for those who are wondering, since the 1980's, astronomers concur that the "tenth planet" isn't there. It doesn't exist. The fact that these people make stuff up as they go along is evidenced by the fact that they leap on anything that supports their theories, arguing for the "truth" of these things, and then disavow those ideas when it's found that they don't have a leg to stand on. 

I seriously don't understand how anyone can believe these quacks. Please, honestly, explain why they're any more credible than "creation scientists". A lot of people buy into their work too, but they are also pariahs in the scientific community because they present no real evidence and have to alter every field of scientific knowledge in some way in order to fit it into their worldview. It's not good science. It's not even science at all. 

The anecdotal and incongruent stories of abductees is more credible than their drivel.

Well, you could argue I suppose that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is simply distorting the ACTUAL evidence that they're right with his noodly appendage.

I'm not denying the possibility that intelligent extraterrestrial life has visited this planet, though the statistical improbability makes it almost impossible. But presenting these people as evidence for it? Why?

~Ethno


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

All I'm getting at is the fact that there is overwhelming evidence that aliens have visited earth for thousands of years, and still do so to this day. I know that some great guy in the sky did not wave his hand and create all of us, nor did we evolve from monkeys on our own. Combine that with all the overwhelming evidence that shows aliens have been coming here for thousands of years, and this is where I am now. I do not take any one single persons work as the cold hard facts. As I stated before, I have researched this subject since I was a kid, and to me it is undeniable. Take these people's (Danican & Sitchen)work out of the equation, you are still left with ancient cave paintings, renaissance art with UFOs in them, all the unexplained heiroglyphs in the Egyptian pyramids, the dropa stones, etc.... All the reading material I just posted was the best way for me to convey my beliefs so that everyone here could possibly understand where I am coming from. I must agree with you on the point that these theories are no more credible that "creationism", but I must say, they do make more sense. With all due respect Ethno....isn't everbody that supports the theory that aliens are here/visiting deemed a quack by the scientific community? We are taught at an early age that anything that can not be proven with science is simply not true, but this is something that is beyond our idea of "science". It cannot be proven, and that is exactly what they want....the government AND the aliens; for us to remain dumb and blind just like the herd of cattle we are in the pasture that is this universe


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## Erniedytn (Dec 3, 2007)

daddychrisg said:


> Wow, your work here is huge Ernie. Please tell me that you cut and pasted alot of that info! Thanks for all the great reads, and links. I will throw in my two cents at some point..Thanks again


Thanks man....as much as I would like to take credit for all of that, I did not write it. Everything I posted and more can all be found here in the "info" section:
Aliens & UFOs Among Us


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## BSIv2.0 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Where's the BigFoot thread?*


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## Ethnobotanist (Dec 3, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> All I'm getting at is the fact that there is overwhelming evidence that aliens have visited earth for thousands of years, and still do so to this day. I know that some great guy in the sky did not wave his hand and create all of us, nor did we evolve from monkeys on our own. Combine that with all the overwhelming evidence that shows aliens have been coming here for thousands of years, and this is where I am now. I do not take any one single persons work as the cold hard facts. As I stated before, I have researched this subject since I was a kid, and to me it is undeniable. Take these people's (Danican & Sitchen)work out of the equation, you are still left with ancient cave paintings, renaissance art with UFOs in them, all the unexplained heiroglyphs in the Egyptian pyramids, the dropa stones, etc.... All the reading material I just posted was the best way for me to convey my beliefs so that everyone here could possibly understand where I am coming from. I must agree with you on the point that these theories are no more credible that "creationism", but I must say, they do make more sense. With all due respect Ethno....isn't everbody that supports the theory that aliens are here/visiting deemed a quack by the scientific community? We are taught at an early age that anything that can not be proven with science is simply not true, but this is something that is beyond our idea of "science". It cannot be proven, and that is exactly what they want....the government AND the aliens; for us to remain dumb and blind just like the herd of cattle we are in the pasture that is this universe


An excellent response. But it is exactly that kind of archaeological and anthropological evidence that is taken out of context. I'll briefly examine some of what you mentioned.

First, let's look at the Dropa Stones. There is no evidence that the Dropa Stones ever existed in the first place. The only evidence are a few washed out photographs that do not match the literary description of the stones, including the "alien text" and the "deep groves". They are believed in fact to be photographs of "bi disc" reproductions, and poor ones at that. The earliest mention of them is in one of Erich's "Ancient Astronaut" books, discovered by an "official" expedition funded by a historical society that doesn't exist, by a Dr. Tsum Um Nui. Tsum Um Nui is not a real Chinese name, by the way (it is not pronouncable in any Chinese language), and there is no documentation for him ever having existed. The fact that they translated a completely "unknown" language is dubious, as this has never happened before; this is analogous to Joseph Smith translating the "Golden Tablets", and he supposedly had the help of an angel and the breast plate of the High Priest of Israel. The museums that supposedly had possession of these stones before they were "lost" said that Erich von Daniken simply made the story up for his book, and they never had possession of these artifacts, nor examined them. The secondary sources mentioning them were later proved to be hoaxes or "works of fiction", by the admittance of the actual authors, who support Daniken's theories. Lastly, the Dropa are not a "tribe of dwarf people" in China, but an actual Tibetan tribe that is quite average sized. When an anthropologist related the story to some of the tribal elders, they laughed their fucking heads off, one of them even urinating on himself he was laughing so hard. No one has produced evidence for the actual existence of these caves, the "alien bodies", or anything of the sort. 

What neolithic cave painting depict spacecraft? Sources, please. The "Sorcerer" is one example of such an archaeological source being taken out of context. Erich once again believes it is an alien who upon visiting "morphed" himself into a beast before the eyes of "primitive" people. Every expert says that is it is either a shaman doing a dance for a hunt while wearing a headress (the most common consensus), or it depicts a spirit.

I'm quite familiar with Renaissance art and Art History. Everything from mannerism to the fantastic altar pieces of Hieronymus Bosch. Which paintings are they, and by whom are they painted? I assure you there are quite logical explanations that fit the timeperiod for whatever you put forth, and I can prove to you that the artist(s) in question did not have extraterrestrials in their worldview, let alone document any such sighting. There is no evidence of sightings, so far as I know, before the years leading up to this previous century. Coinciding with the appearance of science fiction.

And so far as I know, almost all of the Demotic hieroglyphs have been deciphere. I can even read some myself, though I'm more familiar with the Coptic phase of the Egyptian language. It is due to our familiarity with Coptic and Hieratic that these symbols can now be completely deciphered. If you're speaking of the depiction of what look like helicopters, some have suggested that the ancient Egyptians built flying craft themselves, and they haven't been laughed completely out of academia. That they are spacecraft is reaching... by leaps and bounds. Most likely though, they are a religious symbol comparable to the sun disc or the ankh. In fact, I believe Erich has even suggested the sun disc is a spacecraft as well. They may also be composite images: two or more images combined, which is common in hieroglyphs.

People have devoted their entire lives to researching these things. None of them have come up with these answers. If they believed it were so, they would certainly put their professional career on the line. That's science. It's the province of these supposed "quacks" who have neither the education nor the scruples to interpret what they see.

Your argument for a massive world-wide conspiracy is logically flawed. I'm willing to concede it's possible that some things occur. Perhaps something crashed in Roswell and the goverment covered it up. But you know what... other governments have asked to conduct their own investigations of it, so they're not taking it all out of the equation. But to change the actual archaeological and geological record, as well as world governments being UNITED in this effort? Educational institutitons? Scientists who want nothing more than the truth? What you're suggesting is basically the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" argument; the evidence is changed by his "noodly appendage", distorting the facts to challenge the faith of those who "know he exists." The same argument put forth by a good number of creation scientists. Yes, there are realms that the scientific community cannot even remotely begin to explore yet, but the theories of quantum mechanics such as "the multiverse" prove that they're not denying any possibilities, no matter how far-fetched they seem. They just want empirical evidence, and due to string theory, some of their theories are now actually panning out. Technology will advance, and we can look into some of the unexplored realms that are currently in the domain of the "paranormal". But... isn't it more likely that these "ancient astronaut researchers" have more reason to distort the evidence than any human agency that is otherwise considered reliable in other areas? And that since your childhood your need for this all to be true colours your perception of the actual evidence laid bare before you?

As I said before, it's possible that extraterrestrials exist. But the things you mentioned aren't technically "evidence". They're theories put forth to reinforce the worldviews of people who already believe what they're being told. Abductions and spacecraft sightings are more credible to people who are familiar with these fields, especially after these individuals have been proven to be involved in some very shady activities to support their claims.

~Ethno


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 4, 2007)

Several good points there ethno', particularly on the emergence of aliens coinciding with science fiction...

Also how people's depictions of these aliens changed right in line with sci fi. Back in the 50's people were drawing pic's of monstrous beasts, now they are grey men, that look much more human. Man doesn't really fear beasts when he is in his own element, he fears other men. So giving the aliens a more man-like appearance has led to a greater fear, a greater sense of wonder...

I look at the evolution of life, and maybe my version of it is skewed, due to my tendency to take the fundamentals, and twist them around in my mind to form a logical opinion. Not knowing the intricacies has gotten me into trouble before... anyway, i look at evolution much like science looks at the birth of the universe. I believe all life started from a single strand of protein, and from there it exploded into every life form we have on the planet today, and some we probably don't. Just because we don't see the dodo anymore, doesn't mean it didn't simply evolve into something else.

So life is an evolution, a seeking out of the best way for a life form to survive given the set of circumstance (environment) it is forced to live in. Life has so many options to deal with the basics, that life has evolved all kinds of different ways to get them.

This would work the same way on other planets too... not only would you have these man-like aliens (if any) but you would also have a vast array of other life forms too. If these aliens were as advanced as they'd need to be to visit our planet, then they would not need to kidnap us, for there would be enough life forms on their own planet to study. They would also understand that all life pretty much works in the same way.

The sun is the giver of this life.


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## choppers4life (Dec 4, 2007)

ya there's a story of them landing im my home state Rosewell n.m.


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## natmoon (Dec 4, 2007)

Here is a link to some of the oldest possible ufo and alien sightings ever and they are believed to be 40,000 years old or more.
If you scroll to the bottom of the page it shows cave paintings that are supposed to be of aliens and their craft(probably)

http://www.ufoarea.com/aas_ancientaustralia.html


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## Ethnobotanist (Dec 4, 2007)

I've decided to tone it down a bit, as I'm being overly critical for the sake of eliciting some skepticism out of people. But, people see whatever they want to see. This is a bit of as problem in historical anthropology and archaeology: people imposing their modern worldviews on ancient peoples. This doesn't just apply to the "ancient astronaut" theories. A similar problem, for instance, is imposing Western ideas on non-western peoples: a problem that plagued early anthropology in the scheme of the "evolution" of civilizations from "primitive" to civilized. But we've realized for a long time how to avoid this, and to take a subjective stance. People who believed in multiple gods are no more "primitive" than monotheists, for example. In fact, it's generally acknowledged by modern scholars that polytheism makes a bit more sense theologically, but we've been raised to believe it's a nonsensical idea and are thus prejudiced against it.

That's the problem I see with a lot of these theories. Bad science that's long been abandoned due to faulty logic and un-scientific views for better methods... Is creeping back in, at least in the case of these undeniably subjective authors. In the example of cave paintings from Australia and Italy, it's generally thought that these "space helmets" are nothing of the sort. They're halos, an artistic motif found in all cultures, during all ages. You can tell in part by the "lines" often within the halo, radiating from the head. Modern Australians, some of whom still draw these cave paintings on a regular basis, have also given interpretations referring back to their mythology (the Dreamtime), and are likely correct as many of these motifs are still depicted. Aboriginal art is also highly geometric compared to the art of other cultures, leading people to see meaning where there are none. Because Europeans came recently to Australia, we know more about Aboriginal Australian art than other forms of rock paintings, and the aborigines themselves deny such attributions to extraterrestrials based on their cultural knowledge. Also, it seems reasonable to me that extraterrestrials capable of travelling vast distances to our planet would wear something that doesn't resemble the technology of the 1960's Apollo missions. Force fields, bubble of breathable atmosphere, you name it. We're starting to abandon these designs now ourselves in favour of more practical designs in line with our own technological advancements, so it would stand to reason that visiting aliens who would by default have to be significantly more advanced than us would have discarded such technology long before they ever made it here.

~Ethno


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## Erniedytn (Dec 4, 2007)

Ethnobotanist said:


> An excellent response. But it is exactly that kind of archaeological and anthropological evidence that is taken out of context. I'll briefly examine some of what you mentioned.
> 
> First, let's look at the Dropa Stones. There is no evidence that the Dropa Stones ever existed in the first place. The only evidence are a few washed out photographs that do not match the literary description of the stones, including the "alien text" and the "deep groves". They are believed in fact to be photographs of "bi disc" reproductions, and poor ones at that. The earliest mention of them is in one of Erich's "Ancient Astronaut" books, discovered by an "official" expedition funded by a historical society that doesn't exist, by a Dr. Tsum Um Nui. Tsum Um Nui is not a real Chinese name, by the way (it is not pronouncable in any Chinese language), and there is no documentation for him ever having existed. The fact that they translated a completely "unknown" language is dubious, as this has never happened before; this is analogous to Joseph Smith translating the "Golden Tablets", and he supposedly had the help of an angel and the breast plate of the High Priest of Israel. The museums that supposedly had possession of these stones before they were "lost" said that Erich von Daniken simply made the story up for his book, and they never had possession of these artifacts, nor examined them. The secondary sources mentioning them were later proved to be hoaxes or "works of fiction", by the admittance of the actual authors, who support Daniken's theories. Lastly, the Dropa are not a "tribe of dwarf people" in China, but an actual Tibetan tribe that is quite average sized. When an anthropologist related the story to some of the tribal elders, they laughed their fucking heads off, one of them even urinating on himself he was laughing so hard. No one has produced evidence for the actual existence of these caves, the "alien bodies", or anything of the sort.


Perhaps the only way to know one way or the other would be to locate the caves in the Bayan-Kara-Ula Mountains and see if those tiny skeletons or, perhaps, more stone discs could be found.



Ethnobotanist said:


> What neolithic cave painting depict spacecraft? Sources, please. The "Sorcerer" is one example of such an archaeological source being taken out of context. Erich once again believes it is an alien who upon visiting "morphed" himself into a beast before the eyes of "primitive" people. Every expert says that is it is either a shaman doing a dance for a hunt while wearing a headress (the most common consensus), or it depicts a spirit.


UFO's in Earth's History - Crystalinks

Ancient Astronauts, Crystalinks



Ethnobotanist said:


> I'm quite familiar with Renaissance art and Art History. Everything from mannerism to the fantastic altar pieces of Hieronymus Bosch. Which paintings are they, and by whom are they painted? I assure you there are quite logical explanations that fit the timeperiod for whatever you put forth, and I can prove to you that the artist(s) in question did not have extraterrestrials in their worldview, let alone document any such sighting. There is no evidence of sightings, so far as I know, before the years leading up to this previous century. Coinciding with the appearance of science fiction.


http://www.2012.com.au/Historical.paintings.pdf



Ethnobotanist said:


> And so far as I know, almost all of the Demotic hieroglyphs have been deciphere. I can even read some myself, though I'm more familiar with the Coptic phase of the Egyptian language. It is due to our familiarity with Coptic and Hieratic that these symbols can now be completely deciphered. If you're speaking of the depiction of what look like helicopters, some have suggested that the ancient Egyptians built flying craft themselves, and they haven't been laughed completely out of academia. That they are spacecraft is reaching... by leaps and bounds. Most likely though, they are a religious symbol comparable to the sun disc or the ankh. In fact, I believe Erich has even suggested the sun disc is a spacecraft as well. They may also be composite images: two or more images combined, which is common in hieroglyphs.


You can see some of the images I'm talkin about in the earlier links. There is one that is plainly a helicopter, and another that has 2 greys standing on either side of a UFO.



Ethnobotanist said:


> People have devoted their entire lives to researching these things. None of them have come up with these answers. If they believed it were so, they would certainly put their professional career on the line. That's science. It's the province of these supposed "quacks" who have neither the education nor the scruples to interpret what they see.
> 
> Your argument for a massive world-wide conspiracy is logically flawed. I'm willing to concede it's possible that some things occur. Perhaps something crashed in Roswell and the goverment covered it up. But you know what... other governments have asked to conduct their own investigations of it, so they're not taking it all out of the equation.
> 
> As I said before, it's possible that extraterrestrials exist. But the things you mentioned aren't technically "evidence". They're theories put forth to reinforce the worldviews of people who already believe what they're being told. Abductions and spacecraft sightings are more credible to people who are familiar with these fields, especially after these individuals have been proven to be involved in some very shady activities to support their claims.


I'm sure those scientists would be ready to put their carrers on the line, but not their lives. Many people have been threatened with their life if they even dared to talk about the things they seen at Roswell, or at Wright Pat AFB in Ohio.

I never said that there was a "worldwide conspiracy". I just said that "the powers that be" want to keep us in the dark.Our own government still denies that a UFO crashed in Roswell in 1947, they damn sure aren't going to let other countries investigate the matter. On top of that, they have blatently lied to the public for so long, you actually think that they are just going to come out and say "Hey...you know what...there are aliens visiting here, and we recovered a craft. Then we took the technology we found and reverse engineered it." I think not. Besides, there are reports of other Roswell like occurences worldwide:

Famous UFO Crashes - UFO Evidence


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## Erniedytn (Dec 4, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Several good points there ethno', particularly on the emergence of aliens coinciding with science fiction...
> 
> Also how people's depictions of these aliens changed right in line with sci fi. Back in the 50's people were drawing pic's of monstrous beasts, now they are grey men, that look much more human. Man doesn't really fear beasts when he is in his own element, he fears other men. So giving the aliens a more man-like appearance has led to a greater fear, a greater sense of wonder...


Once again Skunk, this is not correct. The first reported case of abduction was by Betty and Barney Hill in September 1961. They described their captors as being "small with whitish skin and large catlike eyes".
Betty and Barney Hill


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 4, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Once again Skunk, this is not correct. The first reported case of abduction was by Betty and Barney Hill in September 1961. They described their captors as being "small with whitish skin and large catlike eyes".
> Betty and Barney Hill


What about the rest of the reports from that era? They all bullshit?


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Dec 4, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Once again Skunk, this is not correct. The first reported case of abduction was by Betty and Barney Hill in September 1961. They described their captors as being "small with whitish skin and large catlike eyes".
> Betty and Barney Hill


Ok here's a 1 liner from that link



> One thing that sceptics cannot explain is, Betty could draw a detailed sketch of the star system Zeta Reticuli which is in the Reticulum constellation, 6 years before astronomers even discovered it?


That's fantastic! With respect Ethno I would be interested to hear your views on how that could happen.

All the best


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 4, 2007)

*[edit] Dr. Simon's hypnosis sessions*

Simon began hypnotizing the Hills on January 4, 1964. He hypnotized Betty and Barney several times each, and the sessions lasted until June 6, 1964. Simon conducted the sessions on Barney and Betty separately, so they could not overhear one another's recollections.

*[edit] Barney's sessions*

Simon hypnotized Barney first. His sessions were often quite emotional, punctuated with angry outbursts, expressions of fear, and episodes of hysterical crying. Barney said that, due to his fear, he kept his eyes closed for much of the UFO encounter. Based on these early responses, Simon told Barney that he would not remember the hypnosis sessions until they were certain he could remember them without being further traumatised.
Under hypnosis, Barney also reported that the binocular strap had broken when he ran from the UFO back to his car. He recalled driving the car away from the UFO, but that afterwards he felt irresistibly compelled to pull off the road, and drive into the woods. He eventually sighted six men standing in the woods. Commanding Barney to stop driving, three of the men approached the car. They told Barney to not fear them. He was still anxious, however, and he reported that the leader told Barney to close his eyes. While hypnotized, Barney said, "I felt like the eyes had pushed into my eyes." (Clark, 284)
Barney described the creatures as generally similar to Betty's hypnotic, not dream recollection. However, he described their eyes as being much larger, extending even to the sides of their heads. The creatures often stared into his eyes, said Barney, with a terrifying, mesmerizing effect. Under hypnosis, Barney said things like, "Only the eyes are talking to me" (Clark 291) and "All I see are these eyes... I'm not even afraid that they're not connected to a body. They're just there. They're just up close to me, pressing against my eyes." (Clark 291)
Barney related that he and Betty were taken onto the disc-shaped craft, where he and Betty were separated. Taken to a room by three of the short men. they undressed Barney and was told to lie on a rectangular exam table. Unlike Betty, Barney's narrative of the exam was fragmented, and he continued to keep his eyes closed for most of the exam. A cup-like device was placed over his genitals. He did not experience an orgasm though Barney thought that a sperm sample had been taken. The men scraped his skin, and peered in his ears and mouth. A tube or cylinder was inserted in his anus. They pressed his chest and pinched his nipples very hard.Someone felt his spine, and seemed to be counting his vertebrae.
While Betty reported extended conversations with the creatures in English, Barney said that he heard them speaking in a mumbling language he did not understand. The few times they communicated with him, Barney said it seemed to be "thought transference"; at that time, he was unfamiliar with the word "telepathy". (Clark, 285)
He recalled being escorted from the ship, and taken to his car, which was now near the road rather than in the woods. In a daze, he watched the ship leave. Barney remembered a light appearing on the road, and he said, "Oh no, not again." He recalled Betty's speculation that the light might have been the moon, though the moon had in fact set several hours earlier.

*[edit] Betty's sessions*

Betty's hypnosis sessions were not as eventful. Under hypnosis, her account was very similar to the events of her recurrent dreams about the UFO encounter, with two notable differences: under hypnosis, the short men did not have large noses, and they had no hair. Simon suggested that Betty sketch a copy of the "star map". She hesitated, thinking she would be unable to accurately depict the three-dimensional quality of the map she says she saw on the ship. Eventually, however, she did what Simon suggested. Although she said the map had many stars, she drew only those that stood out in her memory. Her map consisted of twelve prominent stars connected by lines and three lesser ones that formed a distinctive triangle. (see below) She said she was told the stars connected by solid lines formed "trade routes" whereas dashed lines were to less-traveled stars.

*[edit] Dr. Simon's conclusions*

After extensive hypnosis sessions, Dr. Simon concluded that Barney's recall of the UFO encounter was a fantasy inspired by Betty's recurrent dreams. Though Simon admitted this hypothesis did not explain every aspect of the experience, he thought it was the most plausible and consistent explanation. Barney rejected this idea, noting that while their memories were in some regards interlocking, there were also portions of both their narratives that were unique to each. Barney was now ready to accept that they had been abducted by the occupants of a UFO, though he never embraced it as fully as Betty did.
Though the Hills and Simon disagreed about the nature of the case, they all concurred that the hypnosis sessions were effective: the Hills were no longer tormented by nightmares or anxiety about the UFO encounter.
Afterwards, Simon wrote an article about the Hills for the journal _Psychiatric Opinion_, explaining his conclusions that the case was a singular psychological aberration.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 4, 2007)

*[edit] "Deciphering" the star map*

 
Map of Zeta Reticuli, according to Betty Hill and Marjorie Fish


In 1968, Marjorie Fish of Oak Harbor, Ohio read Fuller's _Interrupted Journey_. She was an elementary school teacher and amateur astronomer. Intrigued by the "star map", Fish wondered if it might be "deciphered" to determine which star system the UFO came from.
Assuming that one of the fifteen stars on the map must represent the Earth's sun, Fish constructed a 3-dimensional model of nearby sun-like stars using thread and beads, basing stellar distances on those published in the 1969 Gliese Star Catalog. Studying thousands of vantage points over several years, the only one that seemed to match the Hill map was from the viewpoint of the double star system of Zeta Reticuli. Therefore she concluded that the UFO might have come from planets orbiting Zeta Reticuli.
As a result of Fish's hypothesis, some have dubbed the Hills' account _The Zeta Reticuli Incident._ Most Ufologists, however, continue to prefer the _Hill Abduction_ or some similar term.
Distance information needed to match three stars, forming the distinctive triangle Hill said she remembered, was not generally available until the 1969 Gliese Catalog came out. Fish also was the first to note that all the stars on the map connected by lines (which Betty Hill said she was told were trade or frequently-traveled routes) fell in a plane, with Zeta Reticuli acting as a hub. Thus the displayed routes would be the most logical and efficient way of exploring the nearby stellar neighborhood for a civilization located in Zeta Reticuli. These points played critical roles in the subsequent debates over the validity of the Fish match to the Hill map.
Fish sent her analysis to Webb. Agreeing with her conclusions, Webb sent the map to Terrence Dickinson, editor of the journal _Astronomy_. Dickinson did not endorse Fish and Webb's conclusions, but he was intrigued, and, for the first time in the journal's history, _Astronomy_ invited comments and debate on a UFO report, starting with an opening article in the December 1974 issue. For about a year afterwards, the opinions page of _Astronomy_ carried arguments pro and con regarding Fish's star map. Notable was an argument made by Carl Sagan and Stephen Soter[1], arguing that the seeming "star map" was little more than a random alignment of chance points. In contrast, those more favorable to the map, such as Dr. David Saunders, a statistician who had been on the Condon UFO study, argued that unusual alignment of key sun-like stars in a plane centered around Zeta Reticuli (first described by Fish) was statistically improbable to have happened by chance from a random group of stars in our immediate neighborhood. [2]
It was also pointed out that Zeta Reticuli is highly unusual in being the only known example of a wide double star system consisting of two stars very similar to the sun. One of the articles in the Astronomy magazine debate, on the ages of the stars in the Hill/Fish map, said evidence pointed to the Reticulan system being 1 to 3 billion years older than our own, with the suggestion that this would have permitted another intelligence race to have evolved much sooner than we did and be considerably more advanced. Furthermore, it was noted the two stars are very close together (now believed to be only 1/8 light year apart), whereas the nearest star similar to the sun, Tau Ceti, is 12 light years away. It was argued that the closeness of the two sun-like stars would likely have acted as a considerable spur to developing interstellar travel.
However, it was also noted that the Zeta Reticulan stars are metal poor compared to the sun, raising questions as to whether a solar system like our own would have developed, whether sufficient carbon existed for life to have even arisen, or whether sufficient quantities of such metals would have been available to create a technological civilization even if there was an earthlike planet and advanced life in the Reticulan system.
Skeptic Robert Sheaffer in an accompanying article said that a map devised by Charles W. Atterberg, about the same time as Fish, was an even better match to Hill's map and made more sense. The base stars, Epsilon Indi and Epsilon Eridani plus the others were also closer to the sun than the Hill map. Fish counterargued that the base stars in the Atterberg map were considered much less likely to harbor life than Zeta Reticuli and the map lacked a consistent grouping of sun-like stars along the lined routes, unlike her map.
In 1993, a new theory with regard to the map in question (as drawn by Betty Hill under hypnosis) was proposed. Two German crop circle researchers, Joachim Koch and Hans-Jürgen Kyborg, proposed that the map was, in reality, drawn from the perspective of the alien spacecraft as it was positioned to the eyes of the Hill's in the solar system on September 16, 1961 along U.S. Route 3 near Lincoln, NH.[


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 4, 2007)

*[edit] Analysis*


Psychiatrists reportedly later suggested that the supposed abduction was a hallucination brought on by the stress of being an interracial couple in early 60s America. [5] Betty discounted this suggestion, noting her relationship with Barney was happy, and their interracial marriage caused no notable problems with their friends or family. As noted in _The Interrupted Journey_, Dr. Simon thought that the Hills marital status had nothing to do with the UFO encounter.
Critics have suggested the Hills' hypnosis brought on confabulation  the blending of fantasy with memory  arguing that recovered memories are unreliable.[_citation needed_]
 
An alien seen on TV 12 days prior to the making of Hill's 'Grey' hypnosis tape


In his 1990 article _Entirely Unpredisposed_, Martin Kottmeyer suggested that Barney's memories revealed under hypnosis might have been influenced by an episode of the science fiction television show _The Outer Limits_ titled "The Bellero Shield", which was broadcast about two weeks before Barney's first hypnotic session. The episode featured an extraterrestrial with large eyes who says, "In all the universes, in all the unities beyond the universes, all who have eyes have eyes that speak." The report from the regression featured a scenario that was in some respects similar to the television show. In part, Kottmeyer wrote:
"Wraparound eyes are an extreme rarity in science fiction films. I know of only one instance. They appeared on the alien of an episode of an old TV series "The Outer Limits" entitled "The Bellero Shield". A person familiar with Barney's sketch in "The Interrupted Journey" and the sketch done in collaboration with the artist David Baker will find a "frisson" of "deja vu" creeping up his spine when seeing this episode. The resemblance is much abetted by an absence of ears, hair, and nose on both aliens. Could it be by chance? Consider this: Barney first described and drew the wraparound eyes during the hypnosis session dated 22 February 1964. "The Bellero Shield" was first broadcast on "10 February 1964. Only twelve days separate the two instances. If the identification is admitted, the commonness of wraparound eyes in the abduction literature falls to cultural forces." (see "external links" below for Kottmeyer's full article.) Though Betty was alive when Kottmeyer made his claims, he never sought her out to ask if she or Barney had seen the episode. When a different researcher asked Betty about _The Outer Limits_, she insisted she had "never heard of it". (Clark, 291) She further noted that it was unlikely that Barney would have seen the episode in question because he usually worked in the evenings when the episode was broadcast, and when Barney was home in the evenings, Betty reported that they were both usually occupied with the NAACP or other community activities.

Folklorist Dr. Thomas E. Bullard agrees that the similarities between "The Bellero Shield" and Barney's story are in fact striking and "persuasive", but he also notes that there are several facts that blunt the impact of the similarities: First, it has not been demonstrated conclusively that Barney watched the episode in question, and, second, as Bullard writes, in Barney's "earlier, conscious recall ... he remembered a being with compelling eyes looking down at him from a UFO." (Bullard, 15; included in Clark, 199 Bullard thinks it plausible that the _Outer Limits_ episode might have helped shape Barney's hypnotically recalled memory, but he also stresses that Barney's "preoccupation with the staring entity and its eyes began years before this television image could have influenced him." (Bullard, 15; included in Clark, 199
A new site has proposed a solution to the Hill's abduction story, arguing that a common but little known feature of human physiology related to the human vision "startle reflex"  in conjunction with confabulation  may explain the Hills' episode.


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Dec 4, 2007)

Ok Mr SKB I read all that the pro's and the cons but look at an excerpt from it.




> Dr. David Saunders, a statistician who had been on the Condon UFO study, argued that unusual alignment of key sun-like stars in a plane centered around Zeta Reticuli (first described by Fish) was statistically improbable to have happened by chance from a random group of stars in our immediate neighborhood. [2]


Interesting no?


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## Erniedytn (Dec 4, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> What about the rest of the reports from that era? They all bullshit?


See that's the thing man, it's hard to weed out what is bullshit and what could be concieved as probable. The point I was trying to make is that not all of the early abduction cases specify big monsters as being their captors. There are quite a few cases that change with the sci-fi times I agree, but not all of them. I'm not sure what you are getting at with all the info you just posted, I will have to take some time and read it all. I will report back after.



> One thing that sceptics cannot explain is, Betty could draw a detailed sketch of the star system Zeta Reticuli which is in the Reticulum constellation, 6 years before astronomers even discovered it?


This is fascinating to me because Zeta Reticulu is supposed to be where the greys are from.


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## Erniedytn (Dec 4, 2007)

OK I get it.....that's basically an unbiased detailed report of the incident and the hypnosis sessions. It does present some pretty good evidence for both sides. This is my favorite:



> The few times they communicated with him, Barney said it seemed to be "thought transference"; at that time, he was unfamiliar with the word "telepathy".


So this man did not even know what telepathy was, but he reported that to be their means of communications, which, once again, goes hand in hand with the abduction cases reported today. 

Here's another interesting abduction story; they even made a movie out of this one called "Fire In the Sky":

The Walton Experience - An Ordinary Day

Here is his official website:

The Official Travis Walton Web Site

What do you think?


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 4, 2007)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> Ok Mr SKB I read all that the pro's and the cons but look at an excerpt from it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She drew a random group of stars... she was also hesitant to do so at first. She was having dreams before... in her dreams she said the aliens were wearing uniforms, and were talking to her like they were english. At one point she describes them getting excited... also while she was being examined she suffered pain, the examiner (her words) put a hand over her eyes to calm her...

She was obviously very delusional, probably brought on by a white woman being married to a black man in that era... 

There is no sense in nonsense.


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## Erniedytn (Dec 4, 2007)

Just to show you how far the goverment will go to cover all this up:


> In their final report, they stressed that low-grade, unverifiable UFO reports were overloading intelligence channels, with the risk of missing a genuine conventional threat to the U.S. Therefore, they recommended the Air Force de-emphasize the subject of UFOs and embark on a debunking campaign to lessen public interest. They suggested debunkery through the mass media, including The Walt Disney Company, and using psychologists, astronomers, and celebrities to ridicule the phenomenon and put forward prosaic explanations. Furthermore, civilian UFO groups "should be watched because of their potentially great influence on mass thinking The apparent irresponsibility and the possible use of such groups for subversive purposes should be kept in mind."


Project Blue Book - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even J. Allen Hyneck, one of the men appointed to "Project blue Book", changed his opinion on UFOs as time passed:



> Hynek's opinions about UFOs began a slow and gradual shift. After examining hundreds of UFO reports over the decades (including some made by credible witnesses, including astronomers, pilots, police officers, and military personnel), Hynek concluded that some reports represented genuine empirical observations.


J. Allen Hynek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Erniedytn (Dec 4, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> She was obviously very delusional, probably brought on by a white woman being married to a black man in that era...


Taken from your post:



> Psychiatrists reportedly later suggested that the supposed abduction was a hallucination brought on by the stress of being an interracial couple in early 60s America. [5] Betty discounted this suggestion, noting her relationship with Barney was happy, and their interracial marriage caused no notable problems with their friends or family. As noted in _The Interrupted Journey_, Dr. Simon thought that the Hills marital status had nothing to do with the UFO encounter.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 4, 2007)

I don't understand how that relates to what I said... she is bound to say that.

All the attention they got, it would have been too late to back out... she would also have been aware of probing questions...

But hey, if you wanna believe this stuff that's up to you... I've already proved that sci fi was portraying aliens of all shapes and sizes in this era... which just so happens to coincide with people's depictions of these aliens in that time period.

Now, nobody gets kidnapped by monstrous aliens... strange.


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## Erniedytn (Dec 4, 2007)

I'm sorry, I should have emphasized this:



> As noted in _The Interrupted Journey_, Dr. Simon thought that the Hills marital status had nothing to do with the UFO encounter.


And your right, nobody gets kidnapped by monsters anymore, but they do claim to get kidnapped by the greys, which is exactly what the Hills reported way back then


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 4, 2007)

little men with cat like eyes... out of all the reports from this era you can only find one that suits your needs?


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Dec 4, 2007)

Mr SKB did you read what you quoted? A Random group of stars (fook I am tired but I will try to pick the bones out of it) no hold on its easy I will just re-quote it



> Dr. David Saunders, a statistician who had been on the Condon UFO study, argued that unusual alignment of key sun-like stars in a plane centered around Zeta Reticuli (first described by Fish) was statistically improbable to have happened by chance from a random group of stars in our immediate neighborhood. [2]


Please read it again and think about the statement, I know you extracted below lots of things that point to her being delusional but the above makes a big difference to the whole thing for me. 

Ok I could be forced to retire this arguement because the words statistically improbable were not statistically impossible but equally I don't take the mixed marriage stress syndrome either sounds just like the media bullshit we are fed today. Dare I mention D.A.R.E.

Can't say I believe anything or not but I am open minded and Erniedytn is an awesome source without having to sift through the probable crap on ufo sites (no offence to your beliefs Ernie).

All the best


PS. I'm pissed hope I didn't offend anybody.



skunkushybrid said:


> She drew a random group of stars... she was also hesitant to do so at first. She was having dreams before... in her dreams she said the aliens were wearing uniforms, and were talking to her like they were english. At one point she describes them getting excited... also while she was being examined she suffered pain, the examiner (her words) put a hand over her eyes to calm her...
> 
> She was obviously very delusional, probably brought on by a white woman being married to a black man in that era...
> 
> There is no sense in nonsense.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 4, 2007)

She drew the stars, then some amateur astronomer looked around for a match...

What exactly is the statistical improbability this guy talks about? 

Back to the 50's and 60's... why is there only one report that even comes close? 

The connection is obvious T.V. Back then there was a broad range of aliens coming to Earth in movies... a lot of Americans believed that they could be invaded at any moment (we laugh about this in my country)... now people are following the fashion that these aliens are grey men, with bug eyes... as it happens, this is just like science fiction today.

It's so obvious. 

I'm not saying there aren't aliens... but we are really the only intelligent life form on this planet... out of billions. Before us there were dinosaurs roaming the planet and we were maybe just some type of amoeba getting washed up on a beach somewhere...

Life offers too much to chance to guarantee we find intelligent life, especially not anywhere near close to us.

If the probability was such... then there would be other planets too that also had intelligent life. You say these greys created us, then who created the greys?


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## Erniedytn (Dec 4, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> little men with cat like eyes... out of all the reports from this era you can only find one that suits your needs?


I'm not trying to find anything to suit my needs, just pointing out the fact that not ALL of the abduction cases back then were "just like the movies". 



skunkushybrid said:


> You say these greys created us, then who created the greys?


That's a good question my friend


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Dec 4, 2007)

I don't have the sense or the knowledge to put up a good arguement anymore today  Ernie has probably another 5 hours to wear you down, I will check back in for the early shift tomorrow. 

I agree its seems too far fetched that there are aliens visiting regularly but I think when I was young I believed in Christianity, then I learned more, lived some of my life and now I don't.

Look at Natmoon's post little grey men drawn on cave walls x number of years ago, just like Ernie's photo blah, not monsters but little grey men on cave walls.

Bleh i'm fooked and i'm not making sense, will check in tomorrow.

Respect Mr SKB and all

All the best


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## Ethnobotanist (Dec 4, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Just to show you how far the goverment will go to cover all this up:
> 
> 
> Project Blue Book - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


Keep in mind that the people who edit these article are those with an interest in such subjects, and whose worldview depends upon the belief in such things. A look at any of the talk pages will more often than not show this.

One person, commenting on the "Starchild skull" article, private messaged me last year and maintained that he knew the truth because he was abducted seven years prior and was made privy to this information when he was forced to inseminate a female grey. As part of his credentials, besides a "masters degree" in "anchient history (sic)" from "Haarvard (sic)", he was apparently a regular caller to the Art Bell Show. When I called "bullshit", he practically made a threat on my life. He's no longer welcome on Wikipedia, but not for that. It was instead for coordinating an attempt to edit such articles with a non-neutral POV with several other people, all of whom used "sock puppets" (false accounts created to give the false appearance of a consensus on a given topic.)

You are not so unbalanced, Ernie, but almost all of the people I've met thus far who believe in and are involved in the dissemination of this "information" would definately qualify for professional observation in a psychiatric institute. Everyone from the seemingly normal guy I met at a "new age" sweat lodge to that loon on wikipedia. There are many perfectly rational people who believe in these things. Unfortunately for you, and the case you're trying to make, they are vastly outnumbered by those people who would benefit from a shot of thorazine in their arm.

As an aside though, I used to live quite near to W.P.A.F.B., in Beavercreek. I had two family members who worked on the base, as well as a good friend who was a civilian working in Air Force Intelligence on the base. I can assure you that extra-terrestrials did not not even remotely enter into any of their worldviews, but in my more impressionable days I remember coming across a shipping invoice (my uncle was a Colonel who was privy to almost the entire shipping operation on the base) that mentioned U.F.O. debris collected from the Pacific Northwest in an unlocked file box in his bedroom (where the family computer was). A few years later, I got up the balls to ask him about this, but according to him it was apparenly an "unidentified flying object" in its more mundane sense, referring to something that they believed was wreckage from a Russian drone that crashed on the southern coast of Washington. The document was classified (as evidenced by 90% of the document being blacked out), but he shared this with me since it had been partially unclassified since he had stored that copy of the document. This is not a man who would even remotely believe in extraterrestrials, believe me, but it made me wonder back then, nonetheless.

~Ethno


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## Erniedytn (Dec 4, 2007)

You are right Ethno, there are alot of people out there that are more sensitive and connected to this subject than I am. I believe strongly in aliens, but not to the point of threatening someones life. I have never seen an alien, or a UFO for that matter,nor have I ever claimed to. Everything I believe comes from my own findings through the years. I look at evidence from every perspective, even the skeptics. I have to admit alot of this stuff does seem crazy and outlandish, but the evidence is there nonetheless. And like I stated previousley, you have to weed out the absolute nonsense and hoaxes, sift through all the bullshit, and find the stuff that truly sounds genuine. I have at times been almost to the point of saying to myself "Dude your nuts", but for some reason, I just get the feeling that there is indeed something to it all.

As for your friend at WPAFB, it is truly a small world. My parents grew up in Dayton, and I used to live in Riverside. I could throw all kinds of government documents at you showing records of cargo shipped from Roswell to Dayton on that day, but then you'll just say that who knows what was really on those planes and we will continue to go round and round like the last forty something pages. No one but the people involved with the incident will ever know what really happened. 

I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone, just presenting the evidence the way I see it


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## Ethnobotanist (Dec 4, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> You are right Ethno, there are alot of people out there that are more sensitive and connected to this subject than I am. I believe strongly in aliens, but not to the point of threatening someones life. I have never seen an alien, or a UFO for that matter,nor have I ever claimed to. Everything I believe comes from my own findings through the years. I look at evidence from every perspective, even the skeptics. I have to admit alot of this stuff does seem crazy and outlandish, but the evidence is there nonetheless. And like I stated previousley, you have to weed out the absolute nonsense and hoaxes, sift through all the bullshit, and find the stuff that truly sounds genuine. I have at times been almost to the point of saying to myself "Dude your nuts", but for some reason, I just get the feeling that there is indeed something to it all.
> 
> As for your friend at WPAFB, it is truly a small world. My parents grew up in Dayton, and I used to live in Riverside. I could throw all kinds of government documents at you showing records of cargo shipped from Roswell to Dayton on that day, but then you'll just say that who knows what was really on those planes and we will continue to go round and round like the last forty something pages. No one but the people involved with the incident will ever know what really happened.
> 
> I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone, just presenting the evidence the way I see it


And you've done a well-reasoned and patient job of presenting your views, and especially of tolerating my skepticism. There once was a time when I was much more open to the ideas you're espousing, or at least of the permissibility of some of them. As I said, I absolutely find no redeeming value in the "ancient astronaut" theories, mostly because I'm practically over-educated and can provide rational explaination for much of it- the sheer number of hoaxes and the money that those authors make off it doesn't help, either. If God or the Easter Bunny came down and told them in person that such things didn't exist, it wouldn't matter to those authors or to many of the people as deeply invested in it. Then again, if it was the Easter Bunny, that would be a wildcard that could go either way. I just threw that in there for those athiests and agnostics. I'm primarily talking about Erich von Daniken here, who either went off the deep end or made some sort of Faustian deal... He lost any credibility the day he dreamed up his theme park. 

Where I am willing to concede a bit is in the realm of unidentified flying objects. The first sighting, to my knowledge, was in the late 1800's, very near the turn of the century. The next one, I believe, was in the 1920's. The sheer number of sightings, and especially that more than a handful have been captured on tape, says something. Some of the sightings were too early to have been experimental spacecraft, and some were witnessed by too many people to be easily explained as a hoax or some sort of mass hallucination. To be sure, there were very few sighting prior to the late 1950's, and the number of sighting are tied to events such as as H.G. Well's "War of the Worlds" and general hysteria incited by other media which depicts extraterrestrials. It also does not discount astronomical or atmospheric phenomena: I myself have witnessed "ball lighting", "St. Elmo's Fire", and "swamp/corpse lights" (also called will o'wisps). Some of these phenomena seem to behave to the observer as if they were intelligent, though they are obviously not. The swamp lights flew in formation, and the ball lightning followed me for some time before going off somewhere else. It found something more conductive, no doubt.

However, it seems to me that there have been cover-ups, such as in Roswell, New Mexico. While it can be argued that these may in fact be experimental aircraft (whether American or Soviet), as some who were involved believed in lieu of extraterrestial craft, others whose credibility is hard to question have believed otherwise. UFOs are also sighted all over the world, and it seems some governments have launched investigations into them. While logical explainations, or at least explainations having nothing to do with extraterrestrials can be offered for all of this, it still raises a few eyebrows, including my own.

I hope there are alien visitors out there. I just know (unfortunately) that the statistical probablility of extraterrestrials actually being sentient and making it here is astronomical almost to the point of it being impossible. One day, we'll start probing deep space in manned craft, and there are several planets out there that at least from preliminary images seem to be capable of supporting life. But, as most people know, simply because it appears to us now does not mean it is still there, with the time it takes light to travel between galaxies. But for those close to us (such as in the Andromeda), it's possible. This won't be in our lifetimes, unfortunately, but the truth, as they say, is out there. It would go a long way (such as in the Star Trek universe) toward human unity if we discovered for sure that we weren't alone. Even if it is a remote possibility, I know I personally shall keep looking to the sky. Here's hoping.

~Ethno


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## Ethnobotanist (Dec 4, 2007)

I thought I'd dig up some interesting links that some of you might find entertaining. First up is the first recorded instance of science-fiction in history, by a Assyrian-Greek writer writing in the Roman period. Part of the story describes interstellar wars of a sort between the people of the moon and sun, which the protagonists become caught in when their ship is hurled toward the moon by a water geyser. It's actually a farce and satire, like many of his works, parodying the fantastic sea voyage genre of his time and prior, depicting things that were truly beyond belief. Some of the gullible people in his time believed such things to be true, so he wrote the most unbelievable of them all and called it "A True Story". And it's actually somewhat entertaining. Thankfully, this is one of the handful of texts that have survived from antiquity (Christians were very into the whole book-burning deal for several centuries, and we only have about 1% of the literary products before the Christian era as a result). Most of the poetry of Sappho, supposed to be some of the best in the world, and the entire Library of Alexandria were not so lucky. An English translation can be found here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/luc/true/index.htm

And, for those that don't know... we're made out of meat. This is a wonderful adaptation of the Terry Bisson short story/play:
http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/made_meat

Enjoy!
~Ethno


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## Erniedytn (Dec 5, 2007)

Ethnobotanist said:


> Where I am willing to concede a bit is in the realm of unidentified flying objects. The first sighting, to my knowledge, was in the late 1800's, very near the turn of the century. The next one, I believe, was in the 1920's. The sheer number of sightings, and especially that more than a handful have been captured on tape, says something. Some of the sightings were too early to have been experimental spacecraft, and some were witnessed by too many people to be easily explained as a hoax or some sort of mass hallucination.


Like this one:

1897-The Aurora, Texas UFO Crash


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## Lacy (Dec 5, 2007)

*I'm with you on this one skunk. *
*In fact I will even say that I think humanity itself has to be pretty arrogant to think we are the only living being in the universe. I think that we are in fact one of the least intelligent species out there and I think we are so many light years away, their intelligence and technology would blow our minds.*

*Unfortunately I think that us as human would probably feel too threatened by the thought of any other beings around that we would try and attack. Maybe not but from our past history...I think we would. Not that we could do anything to them...*

*Maybe thats why none of them want to visit us. *

*I mean it is 2007 and this world is still barbaric when it comes to communicating which usually results in violence. Just my 2 cents. I know its "out there" but you asked. *

*Great...now people are REALLY gonna think I'm a basketcase if they don't already. *


skunkushybrid said:


> The type that come from other planets.
> 
> Anyone believe they have landed on Earth? Not that they don't exist as I believe they do, the odds of them not are too great. Actually believe though that they have landed on Earth? Or that they kidnap people for experiments?


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## Erniedytn (Dec 5, 2007)

Did you read the next 48 pages yet Lacy?


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## Erniedytn (Dec 10, 2007)

> During a discussion at a NASA-meeting between a professor (who wants to remain anonymous) and Armstrong these words were exchanged:
> *Professor: *_What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11? _
> *Armstrong:* _It was incredible, of course we had always known there was a possibility, the fact is, we were warned off!(by the Aliens). There was never any question then of a space station or a moon city. _
> *Professor:* _How do you mean "warned off"? _
> ...


Ed Mitchell and Gordon Cooper.


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## mr.peter (Dec 11, 2007)

i read this thread through (even though it got a little off topic in the begining) adn i have to say that recently (the last year) i came to the conclusion i have been abducted by aliens. Now you guys all probaly think i am full of it adn i hope i am also but am to chicken to find out. Just i remember through out my early childhood i have always been terrified by aliens. I remember i couldnt sleep out of fear adn actually got into praying at night because it was comforting. When i was 10 i think i rmember staying out all day long for 3 days selling popcorn for the boyscouts so i could get a free pocket knife to put next to my bed so i could stop being afraid. Also i have had wierd things in the morning or night happen. Like ill be freezeing to find my comforter in the hallway on the floor. Or wake up wiht sweats on like i went to bed but my boxers will be bakcwords. I dont have a history of sleep walking. (some occasional mumbleing) Also i love horror movies and have watched the scariest, but still i find the movie signs with mel gibson to scare the shit out of me! I couldnt wathc it the full way threw the first time. But then agian this is all a phobia i hope which is wierd because im not a controll freak or really stressed in any way. Any who i have though about going to a hypnotist to see if i can recall and abduction, however i realize i dont know if i could live with my self knowing that tht had happened. Also i saw a UFO the other day. And UFO doesnt mean alien space craft. And this probaly wont sound credable becaseu i was high at the time. But me adn this chick just got finished blazeing on the roof of this country club down teh road from me adn i saw these two lights. One amber and the other like blue white. As someone said before in there account they look like they were going to colide. The amber One was moveing real slow but the other super fast. So they met up and like hung out for like 30 seconds then the amber one started to move away while the other stayed. At this point i was like holy shit a UFO and this girl was laughing at me because i was practicaly shitting my pants just worried about getting off the roof so they dont see us. So we got down and i am like im fucking retarted its a plane. So i go back around this shed we were at to see if they are still there. And the blue one is like circleing around in an arc towards us because it was much closer. And through out this i was trying to take pictures on my phone. And i have two where you can actually see the blue light spec far away then closer. Any who i have to get a cable for my phone ot upload the pictures and i will if your actually interested in two specs of blue light. But back to UFO's and stuff read up about bob lazar and area 51. I found those the most entertaining but i dont get why the us government would be hiding stuff from the people. I have gotten in adn out of conspericy theories and finally realized that for my own opinion its actually as simple as they state no free mason satan worshipers adn cults and stuff but its actually all about money. And that was off topic but i can only come to the conclusion the only reason the us gov. would not tell about ufo's is if they didnt want the people too freak out becasue they could not explaine where reckage has come from. I have seen some of the documentaries on the discovery channal to be really factual giveing both sides of arguments adn good stories. Check them out. Im sorry too about all the typo's and kind of jumping thoughts through out because i am actually getting chills writeing this as i do when i normaly talk about aliens which i find wierd. Also i get like this wierd fealing as if like i have so much adrenalin but i am calm when i talk about aliens but cant contian my self and have wierd emotions like i want to cry but purly as like an instinct not like sad. But theeres my 2 cents. Oh one more thing before i go i read that almost every space mission sence the gemini ones have had UFO accounts. They identifiey the UFO's in outer space as an object that is moveing in a way that doesn corespond with physics wiht out propulsion. I.e. a object moveing in a zig zag adn makeing right angle turns and stuff. Ok thanks for reading peace go smoke!


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 12, 2007)

Were you bullied at school?


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## Lacy (Dec 12, 2007)

no.........


Erniedytn said:


> Did you read the next 48 pages yet Lacy?


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## crazy-mental (Dec 12, 2007)

i belive theres somthing out there. i think the gov. is covering everything up.


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## crazy-mental (Dec 12, 2007)

if there were no moon landing, i belive they wasnt, then were does all the money go?.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 12, 2007)

crazy-mental said:


> then were does all the money go?.


To pay off the alien mafia.


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## crazy-mental (Dec 12, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> To pay off the alien mafia.


funny. i think its all a big con. nasa. they like endorse every thing, even like our bed.(tenna)" the mattress."was designed by nasa" so that makes it 3 times more expensive, if you know what i mean.
i dont know much about the american gov. but how do they justify, all the money they take for nassa,space projects,ect....
personely, i dont think they was a moon landing, i think, it was a big cover up, to just see who cud go there first, cold war and all that.
after seeing the first moon landing footage, i dont know, what to belive, but when they go through the footage, it makes it all look like a farse.
we will belive most things, the gov tell us. most people.
most people are like sheep, the gov. thinks its god. and if we dont,belive everything they do or say, then were made out to be weird, or a crim. "not towing the line" so to speak.
like the person who was saying that he was abducted in the earlyer post, dont you think, if aliens, had abducted you, and they didnt want you to know,or want you to tell anyone, then why would they let you go?, id think if aliens got you, they wouldnt be sticking probes up your arse.ect...lol. 
I think, they would, do what they, were going to do to you, then kill you?. thats what i think. but what do i know?.
i love sci fi,. con. theorys, and all that, and if there was somthing out there,the universe/space is so big, there has to be somthing out there.must be, gotta be?.
i think there is, but the gov. must be hiding the trought from us, why.
"i want to belive". do you?


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## Erniedytn (Dec 12, 2007)

I don't *want* to believe....I *do *believe


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## crazy-mental (Dec 12, 2007)

i wish i was on star treck enterprise.


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## InvaderMark (Dec 12, 2007)

remember when that meteor bit South America maybe, 3 months ago? well, around that time (dont know it it was same day, i realized after sighting) me and my buddy we're walkin outa my house to go somewhere and he goes, "bob, whats that?" hes pointing to the sky.. to the south was a flame ball. no lie. it didnt look small either. weird thing is that a couple million miles later (maybe 3 seconds later on earth?) it just disappeared. seriously. now a week later i remembered that the meteor struck and i was trying to connect it with that, but wouldnt it have fadded away? no just like, BAM!! IM GONE?? the only other possibility would have to be aliens.... and that is a true, no lie story.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 12, 2007)

crazy-mental said:


> i wish i was on star treck enterprise.


Beam me up, Scottie!


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## joepro (Dec 15, 2007)

UFOs and aliens
In ww2 the germans were working on a disk shaped plane
to cause mass painc.
There is a vhs tape called something like The SS and UFOs.
I personaly believe any UFOs.... some countrys airforce is behind it...
Not little green men from mars.
Now aliens, the question is really about life outside of earth.
I like to believe so,thoe we havent found it yet....
Maybe its to early in time,or to late and we missed everyone.
Maybe were the aliens that we look for...
questionable questions with unreliable answers.
As a teen I thought we could be just a cell inside of something larger,then
I stopped taken lsd.
LIFE can be in almost any form,speaking/flying little green men to earth is not one of them,thats to easly thought of and totaly man made,good book/movie..


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## Erniedytn (Dec 17, 2007)

joepro said:


> As a teen I thought we could be just a cell inside of something larger,then
> I stopped taken lsd.


Why couldn't this be the case? I mean our solar system resembles nothing more than the scientific description of an atom right.....protons and neutrons revolving around a nucleus? What if we are just one atom that makes up a cell in some creatures leg?


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## natmoon (Dec 17, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Why couldn't this be the case? I mean our solar system resembles nothing more than the scientific description of an atom right.....protons and neutrons revolving around a nucleus? What if we are just one atom that makes up a cell in some creatures leg?


Now that sounds about right to me,as far in as far out,loops of repeated never ending infinity's of reflected reality's.


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## B.Chron (Dec 17, 2007)

wow thats some crazy shit. i need to get more cooked and start talking on here.


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## mastakoosh (Dec 17, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Why couldn't this be the case? I mean our solar system resembles nothing more than the scientific description of an atom right.....protons and neutrons revolving around a nucleus? What if we are just one atom that makes up a cell in some creatures leg?


 i always wondered that too. maybe we are cells and we are as little to something else as stuff is to us when we look through a microscope...


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## joepro (Dec 17, 2007)

Some believe in a place where the beings are made from light.
This being has an opition to live a life on earth.
When people speak of seeing/feeling ghost or hear vocies inside of there
heads or even angles protecting them....
Some believe this is people you know from this world of light checking in on you.
When you die, ur trip on earth is over and its time to head back home.

Robert anton wilson: cosmic trigger


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## snakey (Dec 23, 2007)

maybe we are the aliens to the earth
maybe the animals ruled!
then we came and took over


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## petejonson (Dec 23, 2007)

let me get some of whatever you guys are smoking


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## hmh2810 (Dec 23, 2007)

I Hope They Have Some Next World Herd


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## Erniedytn (Jan 7, 2008)

Interesting link:
Ooparts & Ancient High Technology--Evidence of Noah's Flood?


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## skunkushybrid (Jan 7, 2008)

Hey there Ernie', I hope you had a great New year!


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## Erniedytn (Jan 7, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> Hey there Ernie', I hope you had a great New year!


Oh yeah..I'm still around.

Had a nice quiet new year at home with the old lady and her mom. We smoked ourselves stupid


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## Erniedytn (Jan 21, 2008)

So I guess this happened when I was sick and flew right over my head (no pun intended). Apparently there was a mass UFO sighting near the town of Stephenville TX. 
YouTube - CNN covers Stephenville Texas U.F.O. Sighting

Small Texas town abuzz over UFOs (w/video) | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

Thoughts?


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## IPokeSmot (Jan 21, 2008)

eeeeeeeeecccccccck. i live 30 miles from stephenville/dublin and everyone around here believes this. Im not too sure myself. 
WILD parties out there this past weekend though I hear.


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## IPokeSmot (Jan 23, 2008)

Nevermind. I believe.


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## papajock (Jan 23, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> The type that come from other planets.
> 
> Anyone believe they have landed on Earth? Not that they don't exist as I believe they do, the odds of them not are too great. Actually believe though that they have landed on Earth? Or that they kidnap people for experiments?


You mean to tell me you dont believe in a human spirit roaming the earth after death, but you do believe in an superior being visiting us from another galaxy? I think your head is full of brain farts.


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## Erniedytn (Jan 23, 2008)

Uh oh.....*puts popcorn in microwave*


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Jan 23, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Uh oh.....*puts popcorn in microwave*


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha spot on, can't wait for this one


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Jan 24, 2008)

Damn the popcorn went cold  Your a lucky boy papajock looks like skb went shopping yesterday


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## papajock (Jan 24, 2008)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> Damn the popcorn went cold  Your a lucky boy papajock looks like skb went shopping yesterday


Yeah, his wife or moma probably made him go.


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## Erniedytn (Jan 24, 2008)

Now of course the military...who earlier stated thet they DID NOT have any aircraft in the area, are now trying to explain this one away:


> FORT WORTH, Texas (Jan. 23) - So much for aliens in Texas dairy country. At least that was the message Wednesday when the military said 10 F-16 fighter jets were training in the Stephenville area the night dozens of residents reported seeing a UFO. Although Air Force Reserve officials in Fort Worth initially said they had no planes in the area Jan. 8, they said Wednesday that they were mistaken and wanted to set the record straight "in the interest of public awareness."
> But some residents remain convinced that it was no human-made aircraft, saying the military's revelation actually bolsters their claims. Some insist they saw at least two fighter jets chasing a large object with bright lights.
> "This supports our story that there was UFO activity in that area," said Kenneth Cherry, the Texas director of the Mutual UFO Network, which took more than 50 reports from locals at a meeting last weekend. "I find it curious that it took them two weeks to 'fess up. I think they're feeling the heat from the publicity."
> Well-respected business owners and a county constable were among dozens who swear that what they saw was larger, quieter, faster and lower to the ground than an airplane. They also said the object's lights changed configuration, unlike those of a plane.
> ...


Military Blames UFO Reports on Jet Drills - AOL News


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## skunkushybrid (Jan 24, 2008)

papajock said:


> You mean to tell me you dont believe in a human spirit roaming the earth after death, but you do believe in an superior being visiting us from another galaxy? I think your head is full of brain farts.


If you read what I'd written properly you would see that I said that although I believe there is alien life out there somewhere, I also believe that no alien life forms are kidnapping people for experiments. At least, none that exist now... there is still the mystery as to where Cro-Magnon man came from. Especially as neanderthal man is not the direct ancestor. 

The difference between aliens and ghosts is that aliens are actually a possibility. Ghosts are just stories for lightly scaring children. Some of us though, just never grow up.


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## Erniedytn (Jan 24, 2008)

THERE HE IS!!!!!!! We thought you were MIA man!!!


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## papajock (Jan 24, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> If you read what I'd written properly you would see that I said that although I believe there is alien life out there somewhere, I also believe that no alien life forms are kidnapping people for experiments. At least, none that exist now... there is still the mystery as to where Cro-Magnon man came from. Especially as neanderthal man is not the direct ancestor.
> 
> The difference between aliens and ghosts is that aliens are actually a possibility. Ghosts are just stories for lightly scaring children. Some of us though, just never grow up.


I agree that it is not likely that the human race evolved into what we have become with out a superior being stepping in, especially considering the unlocked powers of the mind. I was just trying to open your mind to the possibility of something that exists without having a first hand experience. You do believe in things that you have not seen,but it complexes me that you choose to believe in something that is not of this world rather than something that exists on this world. Go figure.

Buy the way, I hope I never do grow up.


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## skunkushybrid (Jan 25, 2008)

papajock said:


> I agree that it is not likely that the human race evolved into what we have become with out a superior being stepping in, especially considering the unlocked powers of the mind. I was just trying to open your mind to the possibility of something that exists without having a first hand experience. You do believe in things that you have not seen,but it complexes me that you choose to believe in something that is not of this world rather than something that exists on this world. Go figure.
> 
> Buy the way, I hope I never do grow up.


I also didn't say anything about superior beings. There is a mystery as to where our direct ancestor (Cro-Magnon) came from.

The neanderthals supposedly died out after the last ice age, around 65,000 years ago... which also coincides with the appearance of Cro-Magnon man.

Maybe there was an advanced race (65,000 years ago) that came from the stars. A last ditch attempt from a dying planet to save themselves and their race. Determined to learn from the mistakes of the past they came to the next planet that could support life. Maybe there was only a handful of them and they soon had to fight hard to survive. Maybe they kidnapped a neanderthal and altered the genes so that one would be impregnated and the first Cro-Magnon man (or woman) was born...

This is actually a brief synopsis of a short story I wrote around 5 years ago. I don't believe it is the truth, I just wanted to write a possible reason for the arrival of Cro-Magnon.

I like stories and I like to watch peoples reactions to stories. Even as a kid I'd notice how people would feed each other with bullshit, as though this somehow made the bullshit more real.

If ghosts were real, you need to think about the billions of people that have died in terrible ways. You need to think that if ghosts actually existed then there'd be so many of them that they'd be constantly over-lapping each other. Then there's the animals, they die terribly too at our hands sometimes. I see mistreatment of animals all the time on the news. Do they become ghosts too?

If ghosts existed there'd just be no room for them to adequately haunt.


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## Erniedytn (Jan 25, 2008)

Here's an interesting video on the "Mar's Anomolies":

YouTube - What's Going on - on MARS (Pt 1 of 2)


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## natmoon (Jan 25, 2008)

The Elohim


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## Erniedytn (Jan 25, 2008)

natmoon said:


> The Elohim


Return of the Aliens? As The Days of Noah Were - Chuck Missler - Koinonia House


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## natmoon (Jan 25, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Return of the Aliens? As The Days of Noah Were - Chuck Missler - Koinonia House


I read several books when i was younger.
I will have a look at your link
Try this one.
Ezekiel Wheels, UFOs, Elohim, Seraphim, Alien Hybrids and Nephilim


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## Erniedytn (Jan 25, 2008)

> What is a "seraph"? The root form of "seraphim" in Hebrew connotes the members of the angelic host whose distinguishing characteristic is brilliance,or fire. According to Isaiah, these brilliant angels are the tools of Satan himself, the angelic host following him in his rebellion, and the forces behind Satan's End Times Deception... Ufo phenomena.


It is widely believed in the UFO community that "Satan" and his "demons" are nothing more that the "reptilian" aliens. Supposedly they are the ones controlling the Greys.

Reptilian humanoid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## natmoon (Jan 25, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> It is widely believed in the UFO community that "Satan" and his "demons" are nothing more that the "reptilian" aliens. Supposedly they are the ones controlling the Greys.
> 
> Reptilian humanoid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Not to long till we found out for sure now anyway


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## Erniedytn (Jan 25, 2008)

Indeed


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## Erniedytn (Jan 25, 2008)

This is an interesting sight I found a link to in the site you posted Nat:
Antichrist UFOs & Mars - Aliens & Antichrist - Mars Cydonia and Antichrist - Bible Prophecy Antichrist & Mars




> Our studies of scripture have lead us to the controversial view that civilizations of pre-rebellion angels lived on the planets of our solar system before the creation of Adam. Further, these civilizations used the riches of their culture to give glory to God the Creator, as evidenced in the ruins of monumental structures of Cydonia. Scripture tells us that the leader of the angelic civilizations was the most favored of the cherubim, who later led the rebellion against God, for which the angelic civilizations were punished. These rebel angels were judged by a planetary cataclysm -- God destroyed planet Rahab, the heart of the angelic civilization. This Rahab was the fifth planet out, where the asteroid belt is now located. Mars shows evidence of a great catastrophe on the scale of a planetary neighbor exploding.


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## skunkushybrid (Jan 25, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> This is an interesting sight I found a link to in the site you posted Nat:
> Antichrist UFOs & Mars - Aliens & Antichrist - Mars Cydonia and Antichrist - Bible Prophecy Antichrist & Mars


That is fairly interesting... if you take religion out of the equation. God is the Sun, so the sun would have needed to be responsible, yet this is unlikely as the planets nearer the sun would also have been fucked.

Maybe a comet destroyed it... yet if this civilisation were so advanced then they should have had knowledge of and defenses against such events. Unless of course they were less than perfect, and a 'Judas' amongst their midst devised a plan formed from greed, and it backfired into the destruction of the whole planet. maybe there were a few survivors, just enough to inbreed their genetic codes to create the first homo-sapien ancestor.

I like the sound of this story...


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## Erniedytn (Jan 25, 2008)

As long as I have been researching this subject, the things I come across never cease to amaze me. You have a point there Skunk....if these ancient civilizations were so advanced, did they not see the threat coming? Maybe they were in the same position we would be if there was an asteroid on a direct course for Earth........what could we do about it?


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## skunkushybrid (Jan 26, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> As long as I have been researching this subject, the things I come across never cease to amaze me. You have a point there Skunk....if these ancient civilizations were so advanced, did they not see the threat coming? Maybe they were in the same position we would be if there was an asteroid on a direct course for Earth........what could we do about it?


 
right now we could probably do very little (unless that star wars thing is up and running). Theres been a couple of movies where we've sent nukes up etc...

but, if we were so advanced that we could traverse the stars at will, then we'd just move. I assume. Even now we have the capability to track asteroids and comets from millions of miles away.

So there'd be plenty of time for a complete evacuation. The nearest planet for them would be Earth... but for it to be true, the race would have needed to forget all technology etc etc


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## natmoon (Jan 26, 2008)

Here is a countdown site to 20/12 2012
Still think you should use an ebook site skunky so we can buy your books

Mayan End Times Prophecy 12-21-2012


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## TEUFELHuNDEN420 (Feb 6, 2008)

Alright everyone blaze up a fatty spliff and click this link, it's an interview with one of the last two South African Medicine Men explaining some ancient knowledge about the history of Africa and the 'reptilian agenda'. WARNING: Your mind could be blown. 

Credo Mutwa presents: The True History of Africa


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## Erniedytn (Feb 8, 2008)

TEUFELHuNDEN420 said:


> Alright everyone blaze up a fatty spliff and click this link, it's an interview with one of the last two South African Medicine Men explaining some ancient knowledge about the history of Africa and the 'reptilian agenda'. WARNING: Your mind could be blown.
> 
> Credo Mutwa presents: The True History of Africa


Fuck yeah dude!!!!! I'm watchin this as soon as I get home. I like you already.


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## natmoon (Feb 8, 2008)

Apparantly the british MOD is about to make all of its ufo files available to the public very soon now.
They should make for an interesting read.
They have been promising this now for nearly a year though but it was broadcast again on our breakfast news today so maybe its finally happening soon

MoD to open British UFO X-files - Telegraph



> The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) plans to release its classified files regarding UFO sightings to the public.
> According to an article in yesterday's _Guardian_, the MoD will publish its files dating back to 1967 "within weeks", following the French government's decision to do so in March.
> David Clarke, a lecturer in journalism at Sheffield Hallam University and author of Flying Saucerers: A Social History of UFOlogy, reckoned that opening the MoD's files could calm down the conspiracy theorists. "The more of this stuff that they put on their website or put in the national archives, the less it will cost the taxpayer, because at the moment people are writing in about individual incidents and they are having to respond," he told the _Guardian_.
> In fact, it seems unlikely that any true conspiracy theorist worth his tinfoil hat would be pacified by anything short of spaceships and dead aliens on display in the Science Museum - and even then there would surely be some asserting that the real good stuff was being kept hidden.
> ...


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## Erniedytn (Feb 8, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Apparantly the british MOD is about to make all of its ufo files available to the public very soon now.
> They should make for an interesting read.
> They have been promising this now for nearly a year though but it was broadcast again on our breakfast news today so maybe its finally happening soon
> 
> MoD to open British UFO X-files - Telegraph


That will probably be just like the US government's (they are both connected anyway) explanation of Roswell (Project Mogul: Project Mogul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and their whole Project Blue Book fiasco(Project Blue Book - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

On a side note I found this while looking for the name of "Project Mogul":
Roswell Explanation - Funny Roswell Alien Joke


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## natmoon (Feb 8, 2008)

Nope even the ufo enthusiasts are saying that it will be cool.
The MOD are releasing all the original documents and 3 million+ was spent on removing asbestos poisioning from some official documents so that they could be viewed and not destroyed or edited.

Dave Clark has said that he has already had the exclusive rights to view some of the documents and that they were astounding and that a huge amount of them are from military personal and in high detail.

Should be good i am thinking.
These are the official secret documents not explanations.
All witness accounts and all info and pics from the past 80 years or so


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## Erniedytn (Feb 8, 2008)

If that is TRULY the case, then it should indeed be interesting.

Sooooooo what does "MOD" stand for anyway?


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## Erniedytn (Feb 8, 2008)

TEUFELHuNDEN420 said:


> Alright everyone blaze up a fatty spliff and click this link, it's an interview with one of the last two South African Medicine Men explaining some ancient knowledge about the history of Africa and the 'reptilian agenda'. WARNING: Your mind could be blown.
> 
> Credo Mutwa presents: The True History of Africa


David Icke.....I should have known.

He is one of very few that speaks publicly about the "Reptilians". He has some interesting theories. Ever heard of Alex Colliers? There is an interview with him that I posted some time back in this thread....you should check it out.


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## natmoon (Feb 8, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> If that is TRULY the case, then it should indeed be interesting.
> 
> Sooooooo what does "MOD" stand for anyway?


The british ministry of defense


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## Erniedytn (Feb 14, 2008)

Exopolitics Comment 65



> Source at U.N. tells of secret UFO meeting February 12, 2008
> 
> I received the following email from two trusted colleagues (Clay and Shawn Pickering) regarding a reliable source informing them that a secret meeting occurred yesterday morning (Feb 12) at the New York office of the United Nations concerning the recent spate of UFO sightings. It appears that a number of nation states are concerned about the impact of increased UFO sightings and wish to be briefed about what is happening. Their source, who currently works in the diplomatic corps, had to travel for an early morning off the record meeting at the UN. Their source revealed that a secret UFO working group exists that is authorizing the release of such information to the public, in an effort to acclimate others to what is about to unfold. A date of 2013 was given as the time for official disclosure and/or when extraterrestrials show up in an unambiguous way. In the interim there will be acclimation related releases of information. Importantly, the source revealed that the events leading up to official disclosure will involve more ethically oriented extraterrestrials, and they will not pose a military threat to the world.
> The information below may be related to the recent debate in the Japanese parliament and statements by the Defense Minister over how Japan would respond to extraterrestrials appearing over Japanese airspace that display peaceful intent. It appears nation states are moving forward in developing public policy on how to respond to extraterrestrials showing up. So if the information below is accurate, then it is likely that we will see more examples of governments making official statements concerning how they would respond to extraterrestrials that show up over their airspace. It is likely that parliamentarians around the world will start receiving briefings to help them develop public policy concerning extraterrestrial life. Such briefings will probably extend to prominent media sources who will give more coverage to UFO sightings in popular media outlets such as Larry King Live. Increased media reports will first likely lead to disclosures of secret antigravity technologies that have been withheld for over 50 years, as a prelude to official disclsoure of extraterresrial life. The source's reference to suicides is probably related to those who will learn that much of what they have learned and believed over a lifetime was a lie. The 1961 Brookings Report referred to scientists as being most vulnerable to the disclosure of extraterrestrial life since it will make redundant many of the cherished scientific theories and models held by this community.
> ...


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## Erniedytn (Feb 14, 2008)

So I have been studying this alien phenomena for quite a while. However I have always been the skeptic when it comes to the "Reptilian" race. Through my recent research on the "Illuminati" I was lead here:

A study of Replians

Here is an excerpt:

*



THE REPTILIAN CONNECTION

When I reached the point some years ago where I had put together the structure through which a few people control the direction of the world (see And The Truth Shall Set You Free), it was clear that this network of secret societies and covert groups manipulating global politics, business, banking, military, media, and so on, could not have been put together in a few years or decades. It had to go back a very long time. 

So I began to trace it back into what we call history. I did this in the knowledge that, for some reason, bloodline and genetics were vitally important to these manipulators, the Illuminati or Illuminated ones - illuminated into knowledge that the public never see.

I followed the trail back comfortably to the time of the Crusades in the Middle East, the 12th and 13th centuries, that kind of period, and on it went far back into the ancient world and pre-history.

There, all over the planet, you find the ancient legends and accounts of "gods" from another world who interbred with humanity to create a hybrid network of bloodlines. The Old Testament, for example, talks about the "Sons of God" who interbred with the daughters of men to create the hybrid race, the Nefilim. Before it was translated into English, that passage read "the sons of the gods", plural. But the Bible accounts are only one of so many that describe the same theme.

The Sumerian clay tablets, found in what we now call Iraq in the middle of the 19th century, tell a similar story. It is estimated they were buried around 2,000 BC, but the stories they tell go back long before that. The tablets talk of a race of "gods" from another world who brought advanced knowledge to the planet and interbred with humans to create hybrid bloodlines. These "gods" are called in the tablets, the "Anunnaki", which apparently translates as "those who from heaven to earth came."

The ancient accounts tell us that these hybrid bloodlines, the fusion of the genes of selected humans with those of the "gods", were put into the positions of ruling royal power, especially in the ancient Near and Middle East, in advanced cultures like Sumer, Babylon, and Egypt. But it happened elsewhere, also, as you will find, for example, in the amazing information provided on this site by the African Zulu shaman, Credo Mutwa, and in the incredible Credo videos, Reptilian Agenda, parts one and two. He tells the same story from the black African tradition that I have uncovered elsewhere in the world.

The accounts of the "serpent race" in ancient cultures are simply endless wherever you look and the serpent, reptilian, symbolism in relation to the Anunnaki and other versions of these "gods" is equally widespread. We see this in the Bible, for instance, with the serpent in the "Garden of Eden"- a story which clearly comes from the Sumerian accounts, as does the story of Moses in the bulrushes, a story told about a Sumerian king long before the Bible. This is why I found it so astounding when I was told by Zecharia Sitchin, the best-known translator of the Sumerian tablets, that there was no evidence of a serpent race in the ancient world. Of course there is. He also strongly advised me in relation to the serpent race&#8230;"Don't go there". Why, when the evidence, ancient and modern, is so enormous? 

From these bloodlines has come the origin of the "divine right of kings", the belief that only certain bloodlines have the god-given right to rule. In truth this is not the "divine" or "God" at all. It is the right to rule from the reptilian "gods" by way of your hybrid genetics. 

These bloodlines later became the royal and aristocratic families of Europe and, thanks to the "Great" British Empire and the other European empires, they were exported to the Americas, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and right across into the Far East, where they connected with other reptilian hybrid bloodlines, like those, most obviously, in China, where the symbolism of the dragon is the very basis of their culture. 

These reptilian-human hybrid lines became the political and economic rulers of these lands occupied by the European empires and they continue to rule these countries to this day. The United States of America has been home to hundreds of millions of people since 1776. What's more, these people came from an amazingly diverse genetic pool. And yet, wait for this, the 42 who have become Presidents of the United States are all related!!! Thirty-Three of them alone go back to Charlemagne, one of the most famous monarchs of what we call France. He just happens to be a major figure in the story of these bloodlines and their expansion out of Britain, France, Germany, and elsewhere.

Click to expand...

*I'm starting to think that Mr. David Icke is onto something.


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## soulflyx2k (Feb 14, 2008)

Personally i've had some weird experiences with the grays in lucid dreams, doesn't seem to me that they are very helpful to the humans... Some may be biogical, some machine, some are half and half

for Reptilians, read from Don Juan's teachings -> Carlos Castaneda's The Active Side of Infinity, if you want to know more about the reptilian influence on humans.
-Heres a website with the main points of it.
The Active Side of Infinity

Read Stewart Swerdlow's Blue Blood: True Blood if you want to know more about the real origin of humankind and where each race is actually from. Also for information on aliens and their current agendas on this planet.
-Go here for a overview of it
Selected excerpts from: Blue Blood, True Blood, Conflict and Creation - 1


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## BSIv2.0 (Feb 14, 2008)

Chicago O'Hare Report

CNN Report


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## Erniedytn (Feb 15, 2008)

soulflyx2k said:


> Personally i've had some weird experiences with the grays in lucid dreams, doesn't seem to me that they are very helpful to the humans... Some may be biogical, some machine, some are half and half
> 
> for Reptilians, read from Don Juan's teachings -> Carlos Castaneda's The Active Side of Infinity, if you want to know more about the reptilian influence on humans.
> -Heres a website with the main points of it.
> ...


Hey thanks for the links man. I will definately be checking them out and giving some feedback.


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## Erniedytn (Feb 15, 2008)

BSIv2.0 said:


> Chicago O'Hare Report
> 
> CNN Report


This is starting to happen more and more every day. It makes it even more interesting when the witnesses are credible. I mean these are airline pilots and airline mechanics making these statements, not just some dumb rednecks in a trailer park. I believe that all of this is indeed going to lead to the public unveiling that I posted earlier.


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## Erniedytn (Feb 15, 2008)

soulflyx2k said:


> Read Stewart Swerdlow's Blue Blood: True Blood if you want to know more about the real origin of humankind and where each race is actually from. Also for information on aliens and their current agendas on this planet.
> -Go here for a overview of it
> Selected excerpts from: Blue Blood, True Blood, Conflict and Creation - 1


So I'm reading through this website and all I can say is WOW. I mean as much as I believe in aliens, I just cannot fathom this. I mean this is EXACTLY the kinda stuff that Alex Colliers talks about. As much as I WANT to believe this stuff, it is just so fantastical that it is hard to. Could these things even be possible? Here is an excerpt for everybody else:




> It is said those (Ophanim? Seraphim? winged Dracs? Ciakar? Cherubim?) who placed *the Draco* in our galactic sector knew that the humanoid remnant would need an aggressive parasite to trigger development. Further the result of the part of the humanoid blood on Earth today receiving a blood line cross from Draco (URu cross with Ibi) - is beneficial. (see Lawrence Gardner defending his Drac family root). This is related to usually AN or Celtic or British RH negative blood. The reptilian Drac blood *Enki* (*RA - abRAham*) crossed with the cro-magnon monkey blood had DNA was LESS vital than the indigenous (RHesus) monkey blood. So the reptilians had to keep in-breeding (as in Holy Blood Holy Grail) - consistent with what Swerdlow says below. Areas (UK) where this RHESUS Monkey blood is absent (RH negative) may lead the world in lack of compassion. *E-liz-a beth* (from Lizard born) breeds a line where no permission to cry produces a stiff upper lip.
> 
> The remnant Lyraens who colonized other planets formed an alliance against the constant Reptilian attacks. They called this alliance the Galactic Federation, comprised of 110 different colonies. The colonies belonging to the Federation wished to maintain their new identities, and no longer associate with the old way. Together, the Federation colonists managed to repel the Reptilian attacks.
> 
> ...


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## soulflyx2k (Feb 15, 2008)

the truth is much stranger than fiction

but a lot of this stuff is dealing with the astral and other higher realms and is hard to fathom

and if its not possible to fathom for you right now, then id suggest investigating the ways people are *mind-controlled* at the moment.

what of this stuff is so hard to believe


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## Erniedytn (Feb 15, 2008)

soulflyx2k said:


> the truth is much stranger than fiction
> 
> but a lot of this stuff is dealing with the astral and other higher realms and is hard to fathom
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong man, I'm not arguing with you. I WANT to believe it all, but it is just so mind boggling. I watched an Alex Colliers interview some time back and it literally blew me away. The seriousness and emotion he displayed while explaining all of this really made me take it to heart. I think deep deep down I know it all to be true, but the "mind controlled" part of me wants to say it's all BS. 

As for the "Illuminati" and their ways of controlling the masses, I don't doubt any of it for one second. 

It has just became a realization to me that every single bit of it all is connected. All of the seemingly unrelated conspiracies from the Lincoln assasination, and the Kennedy assasination to the holocaust and 9/11 to the Roswell incident and the whole alien phenomena....it's all connected. I have been reading that site that has excerpts from the book "Blue Blood, True Blood" all day long, and I think that my mind is just tired and overwhelmed. Until this point I have only heard Alex Colliers speak of these things. To see that there are others with the same theories and beliefs only solidifies his claims.

You ask what about this all seems so hard to believe. Look at it from the point of view of a person that does not even believe that aliens exist....wouldn't you agree that it sounds like science fiction? Of course this is not my way of thinking (that aliens do not exist), I'm just saying that it all sounds soooooooooo far fetched that it is hard to get a grasp on.

My mind is tired.....I have to give it a rest now.


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## email468 (Feb 15, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Don't get me wrong man, I'm not arguing with you. I WANT to believe it all, but it is just so mind boggling. I watched an Alex Colliers interview some time back and it literally blew me away. The seriousness and emotion he displayed while explaining all of this really made me take it to heart. I think deep deep down I know it all to be true, but the "mind controlled" part of me wants to say it's all BS.
> 
> As for the "Illuminati" and their ways of controlling the masses, I don't doubt any of it for one second.
> 
> ...


I think the fact that you "want" to believe could be interfering with your critical thinking skills. If you are honestly seeking a representation of the world around you then you must go to where the bulk of the evidence lies. Not picking up a few arbitrary threads of evidence and then making some tenuous theories about how they might or might not fit together.


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## email468 (Feb 15, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> This is starting to happen more and more every day. It makes it even more interesting when the witnesses are credible. I mean these are airline pilots and airline mechanics making these statements, not just some dumb rednecks in a trailer park. I believe that all of this is indeed going to lead to the public unveiling that I posted earlier.


actually evidence (there is that damn "E" word again) shows that "expert" witnesses tend to "expertly" fill in data while watching an incident making them potentially a less reliable witness than your dumb trailer park redneck (really hate that cliche). but anyway... consider this - a well educated adult is much easier to fool with a simple magic tricks than a child. Once a child is able to "fill in the blanks" without seeing the action (like secretly moving a coin from one hand to another), the child is then as gullible as any adult.

anyone interested in the scientific method should know the following (there are many, many more but this is an excellent start):

1-arguments from authority carry little weight (there are no authorities in science) - another words don't believe just one guy or gal. The preponderance of the evidence is what you're looking for.

2-use Occam's razor - of two hypothesis that explain the data equally well, choose the simpler. Example: crazed religious nut jobs who continue to kill themselves while attempting to kill their enemy flew planes into building on 9/11/2001. OR - some world-wide illuminati (sp?) government forced the US government to make it look like some crazed religious nut jobs who continue to kill themselves while attempting to kill their enemy flew planes into building on 9/11/2001.

3-Don't believe the first hypothesis you hear.

4-Must be independent confirmation of data. 

5-Scientists rarely will hold a press conference to announce findings BEFORE publishing peer-reviewed papers to confirm their findings - another words someone yakking on the news is NOT scientific evidence.

6-Eyewitnesses, testimonials, and anecdotal evidence isn't evidence at all. Can be used as part of the data if independently confirmed.

i'm thinking about starting a critical thinking / skeptic thread - any takers?


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## Erniedytn (Feb 15, 2008)

email468 said:


> I think the fact that you "want" to believe could be interfering with your critical thinking skills. If you are honestly seeking a representation of the world around you then you must go to where the bulk of the evidence lies. Not picking up a few arbitrary threads of evidence and then making some tenuous theories about how they might or might not fit together.


Well see that's the thing man. I'm not looking for a representation of the world around me, I'm looking for an EXPLANATION as to what are all of these UFOs people are seeing? Where did human life come from? Whay do so many people claim to have been abducted? Why are there so many mysteries surrounding things like the pyramids, stonehenge, the Mayan civilization, the Bible, and all of the unexplained archeological finds?

I feel as if a giant puzzle has been placed in front of me, with no reference to go by whatsoever, and I have gotten the edges completed. Now I am trying to figure out the middle.

In your honest opinion, where do you feel that "the bulk of evidence" can be found? This subject seems to be so taboo to some people, and just utterly obsurd to others, that it is hard to find some solid evidence. Even if there is evidence to be found, the powers that be sweep it under the rug so quickly that it is almost impossible to locate.

IMO the human race is like the survivors of a shipwreck that have been washed ashore in a strange land with complete amnesia.


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## email468 (Feb 15, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> In your honest opinion, where do you feel that "the bulk of evidence" can be found?


Through the extremely difficult work of examining evidence while attempting to eliminate observation bias. The only folks I am aware of doing this, and not always successfully, are scientists. 

They are the only ones that I am aware of that make very clear, precise and unambiguous predictions which come true. And the best part is, the experiment that bolstered a theory by correctly predicting the outcome is repeatable! Another words, with enough training and education, anyone can repeat the experiment to determine if the scientist is bullshitting. That is science's great gift. It's great curse i believe is enabling technology before our brains catch up to the technologies implication.

I would also argue that if the evidence does change, science changes with it. For example, I hear critics of global warming say that scientists were claiming there was going to be another ice age* and now they are saying warming. Science is cool with that - if the evidence points to cooling - well cooling it is. If the data changes and points to warming then you guessed it!
Unfortunately, when you approach things in this way, you can't expect a lot of certainties in your life. I mean you have to be comfortable not knowing for sure. Many folks are uncomfortable with the idea of deeply held beliefs being incompatible with evidence. That is where ignorance comes from.

Or to put it another way - there always is a margin for error and most debate is over where (or how large) the error bar is. Example: if you asked me the following: 

Do you think there is a chance that we are being visited by aliens and being run by a global-cabal of reptile creatures? I would say yes there is a chance. But so slim a chance it is not even worthy of debate among scientific circles. 
Your response would probably be along the lines of - well that sounds like an appeal to authority to me and then it is evidence time! Like our buddy Carl Sagan (if not a weed smoker, at least an admitted trier of same) says - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Even a piece off an alien craft (that couldn't be replicated on Earth that is) would open alien visitation wide open - but there just isn't any shred of evidence - at least that scientists can get their hands on. Can you imagine how many scientists would love to prove extraterrestrial life exists? I would assume all of them!

I think you are, in fact, thinking very critically about things that interest you. In fact, i'd go out on a limb and say most people interested in conspiracy theories are skeptical by nature since they aren't "buying" the party line or story. They are looking for an alternative explanation.

It is at this point we reach for a conspiracy theory that sounds good interpreting the facts but is very convoluted and for some special pleading reason, the real evidence just can't be produced. No convincing evidence (other than circumstantial, anecdotal, testimonial) is ever offered. And as much as I want to believe in eyewitness testimony, as long as there is a chance the eyewitness is lying (and there always is, isn't there) knowingly or unknowingly, i can't believe in eyewitness-only evidence without some kind of independent confirmation.

I guess what this rambling response is concluding to is real life and science is messy and usually hard work. But so far as i know it is the best tool we have to understand the world around us. So if you ever start a statement with "No evidence can convince me..." then you're not thinking scientifically.

* You can google this for verification - but i believe there weren't scientists talking about a new ice age. journalists, however, were printing things like that.


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## soulflyx2k (Feb 15, 2008)

I dont think science has anything to do with what we are talking about. I think the only thing required is your own personal realization of a few things. They will make sense when one is ready to make sense of them. They will mean different things to everyone.

1. The "universe" has always existed; never started, never ended. It just is.
2. This physical realm is virtually infinite, if you can think of it, it can be created, or it can be done.
3. Since the "universe" has always existed, it is entirely possible that civilizations have very advanced technology.
4. Since at this "current moment in time" there are country's trying to control each other, and people generally try to control other people, It can be assumed that the extent of "control" can be pretty extensive. Other races controlling us.. etc.. or Government spiking the water supply or sending out microwaves(in essence shutting off universal knowledge).

These are just some basic truths really, of course there are more.

And of course this should always be known about anything you read... You will understand everything to the extent you are ready to understand.


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## email468 (Feb 15, 2008)

soulflyx2k said:


> I dont think science has anything to do with what we are talking about. I think the only thing required is your own personal realization of a few things. They will make sense when one is ready to make sense of them. They will mean different things to everyone.
> 
> 1. The "universe" has always existed; never started, never ended. It just is.
> 2. This physical realm is virtually infinite, if you can think of it, it can be created, or it can be done.
> ...


You are free to believe anything you want but science does indeed have something to say about nearly every one of your statements and assumptions. You are incorrect about the universe. Within standard error bars, cosmologists and astrophysicists can give you the approximate dimensions and age of our universe. They will also readily admit there is a lot they don't know about the universe - like how it began and how it will end. But that is OK cause they are working hard trying to find evidence that points to the answers. But since your first assumption is false and the others rely on it, the rest of your assumptions are false.

If you sincerely believe the government is controlling everyones mind with microwaves please with all humility I ask that you consider the possibility that it is you that is deluded rather than the rest of the world.


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## soulflyx2k (Feb 15, 2008)

thats ok, just remember
You will understand everything to the extent you are ready to understand.


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## KrazyAnneBanks (Feb 15, 2008)

aliens are living beings from different planets right. we consider ppl from different countries aliens... 

anyways. it is calculated that there are 11 other planets out there in our neighboring galaxies that have intelligent life.


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## email468 (Feb 15, 2008)

soulflyx2k said:


> thats ok, just remember
> You will understand everything to the extent you are ready to understand.


I am willing to listen to any evidence you can present that will make me "ready to understand".


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## email468 (Feb 15, 2008)

KrazyAnneBanks said:


> aliens are living beings from different planets right. we consider ppl from different countries aliens...
> 
> anyways. it is calculated that there are 11 other planets out there in our neighboring galaxies that have intelligent life.


Eleven planets in neighboring galaxies is a pretty bold assertion. While we have observed planets outside our solar system both directly and indirectly, I don't believe we have identified any planet-size bodies outside the Milky Way.

Would you share the source of this information?


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## TEUFELHuNDEN420 (Feb 16, 2008)

anyone ever heard of the book the 12th planet? It's about the world's first known human civilization in present day Iraq. its a pretty factual account about the ancient sumerians


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## medicineman (Feb 16, 2008)

The Serpo Project
 check out these sites>
UFO.Whipnet.org | Aliens | UFO | Project Serpo 3
and these
Project Serpo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe the product of someones imagination or may not, you decide. It is possible if you have an open mind.


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## natmoon (Feb 17, 2008)

A simple fold of space is all that is required to travel a long way quickly.
It is always easy to forget that most of the human race dont even know how a television works and those that do know how one works could never build or repair one.
Monkeys with toys and a few very clever monkeys is all we really are at this moment in time.
Such a very young race.
The universe is very big and full of life


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## Erniedytn (Feb 17, 2008)

TEUFELHuNDEN420 said:


> anyone ever heard of the book the 12th planet? It's about the world's first known human civilization in present day Iraq. its a pretty factual account about the ancient sumerians


Yeah the planet is Nibiru. There's another thread going on over in Toke and Talk about it right now.


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## Erniedytn (Feb 17, 2008)

natmoon said:


> A simple fold of space is all that is required to travel a long way quickly.
> It is always easy to forget that most of the human race dont even know how a television works and those that do know how one works could never build or repair one.
> Monkeys with toys and a few very clever monkeys is all we really are at this moment in time.
> Such a very young race.
> The universe is very big and full of life


Very well put Nat....I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Erniedytn (Feb 17, 2008)

medicineman said:


> The Serpo Project
> check out these sites>
> UFO.Whipnet.org | Aliens | UFO | Project Serpo 3
> and these
> ...


Med...this is very widely believed in the UFO community to be where the United States acquired all of it's supreme air technology such as the stealth design. Supposedly we are currently using knowledge acquired from the Greys to play off of the Earths natural energy. If you are interested then Google HAARP Project, LOIS, and LOFAR and see what we are up to these days.


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## Quasar (Feb 17, 2008)

They are everywhere. We live in a universe full of life. Here is something to chew on. O and please remember Drakes equation.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


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## medicineman (Feb 17, 2008)

Quasar said:


> They are everywhere. We live in a universe full of life. Here is something to chew on. O and please remember Drakes equation.
> YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


Naw, I think it was an escaped Pac-Man.


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## crazy-mental (Feb 17, 2008)

wtf it looks like a vile of germs.


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## WeFallToday (Feb 17, 2008)

Think about the universe.How huge it is.If there was no such thing as life on other planets there would be such wasted space.

Humas are so egotistal to think that where the only smart beings out there.


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## KrazyAnneBanks (Feb 17, 2008)

email468 said:


> Eleven planets in neighboring galaxies is a pretty bold assertion. While we have observed planets outside our solar system both directly and indirectly, I don't believe we have identified any planet-size bodies outside the Milky Way.
> 
> Would you share the source of this information?


 
nasa.jpl.gov.


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## email468 (Feb 18, 2008)

KrazyAnneBanks said:


> nasa.jpl.gov.


sorry that link does not work but i did find this:
Planet Quest: SIM Technical Area

They are discussing the possibility of discovering extragalactic planets IN THE FUTURE. Currently, we have only identified (directly and indirectly) planets within our own galaxy.

though if you do have proof to the contrary - i am all ears.


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## devilwacause (Feb 21, 2008)

The big problem the guy has is the definition of galaxy and solar system. We HAVE found many many planets outside our Solar System, however we have just started to peer out of the galaxy into the universe.

Stars + their orbiting bodies = solar system
Millions of solar systems and lone stars = galaxy.


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## email468 (Feb 21, 2008)

devilwacause said:


> The big problem the guy has is the definition of galaxy and solar system. We HAVE found many many planets outside our Solar System, however we have just started to peer out of the galaxy into the universe.
> 
> Stars + their orbiting bodies = solar system
> Millions of solar systems and lone stars = galaxy.


you are right - I apparently wrongly figured that folks interested in aliens/UFOs/etc.. would at least know the difference between the two. Kind of like talking to someone interested in growing weed and having to explain the difference between vegetative and flowering ... didn't really think it needed spelled out.

sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## Juntistik (Feb 23, 2008)

i've always had a slight belief in aliens but nothing more certain than "i believe there is other life out there somewhere". 

Recently a friend has shown my the Alien Disclosure project, as well as some Phil Shnieder lectures in which the details about alien presence on earth start to be revealed. Obviously anything said on these videos or in other conspiracy theory texts must be taken with a grain of salt, but i honestly have begun to believe many of their claims of both secret government involvment with the aliens, and the inherent threat which some varieties pose to us (Greys and/or reptilians). 
I'm not really sure what to do with this information, besides sit back and wait to see if it all comes together in 2012. Apparantly the grays and reptilians have been on the north American continent and throughout the world since the beginning of the human race ( they actually claim that they created humans....which would explain a lot of the worlds religions). Because reptilians have apparantly been here since the beginning of life, it would make sense why the Aztec, Maya, and Pueblo indians, as well as many other groups, have depictions of reptilian beings, and they all have mark the similar date, 2012, as the day of their return.


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## Erniedytn (Feb 24, 2008)

See that's what I'm sayin man. Some of that shit that sounds soooooo crazy, actually makes sense. It's all very intriguing.


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## email468 (Feb 24, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> See that's what I'm sayin man. Some of that shit that sounds soooooo crazy, actually makes sense. It's all very intriguing.


or it could be that humans, generally speaking, have limited imaginations which would also explain dragons or reptile-like creatures in most of the world's mythologies.


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## 29menace (Feb 24, 2008)

lol i believe there are other life forms coz if you think its just us in the universe then that would be daft..


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## email468 (Feb 24, 2008)

29menace said:


> lol i believe there are other life forms coz if you think its just us in the universe then that would be daft..


Believe what you want but i don't think calling the person who is asking for evidence of space creatures visiting our planet daft is the way to go about it.

Otherwise, you are inviting a barrage of less than flattering statements heading your way.


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## TEUFELHuNDEN420 (Feb 24, 2008)

think about this a little bit one time. Out of all the planets just in our own solar system and of all the planets we know of the only one with life on it is also the only one with known intelligence too... of all the species on earth there's one. And humans don't even have the biggest brains on the planet, only the biggest brain to body ratio. For all we know the average blue whale could be like 20X smarter than the average person, but of course there'd be no way to tell.


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## Titania (Feb 25, 2008)

TEUFELHuNDEN420 said:


> think about this a little bit one time. Out of all the planets just in our own solar system and of all the planets we know of the only one with life on it is also the only one with known intelligence too... of all the species on earth there's one. And humans don't even have the biggest brains on the planet, only the biggest brain to body ratio. For all we know the average blue whale could be like 20X smarter than the average person, but of course there'd be no way to tell.


 
Bigger brain doesn't mean more intelligence, whales have larger brains yes, but it is used to control their big bodies! Brain to body ratio is the key. This myth about bigger brains=intelligence was dispelled along time ago, in fact when they examined Einsteins brain they found it was in fact smaller than average, but it was the compactness of the neurons which was unusual. There is a finite size for brains, because the larger the brain, the greater the distance between neurons and the longer it would take to put a thought together. And to answer the thread title, yes I believe there is life out there.


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## Erniedytn (Feb 29, 2008)

Serpo.org - The Zeta Reticuli Exchange Program

OK so I have been reading through this website. I'm just starting page 13. What I want to know is IF this is indeed all true (and it is very possible), how in the hell was this guy making journal entries while all of this was goin on? I mean he plainly states that the 12 people were really disoriented and confused....

There is a shitton of scientific data within those pages. The problem is it's all greek to us because supposedly the laws of physics as we know them are not the same in other solar systems due to the nature of the different stars behavior. 

If it's true, it makes me wonder if this is the information that is supposedly going to be released to the public in 2013. Here is a letter I found referencing that:



> Source at U.N. tells of secret UFO meeting February 12, 2008
> 
> I received the following email from two trusted colleagues (Clay and Shawn Pickering) regarding a reliable source informing them that a secret meeting occurred yesterday morning (Feb 12) at the New York office of the United Nations concerning the recent spate of UFO sightings. It appears that a number of nation states are concerned about the impact of increased UFO sightings and wish to be briefed about what is happening. Their source, who currently works in the diplomatic corps, had to travel for an early morning off the record meeting at the UN. Their source revealed that a secret UFO working group exists that is authorizing the release of such information to the public, in an effort to acclimate others to what is about to unfold. A date of 2013 was given as the time for official disclosure and/or when extraterrestrials show up in an unambiguous way. In the interim there will be acclimation related releases of information. Importantly, the source revealed that the events leading up to official disclosure will involve more ethically oriented extraterrestrials, and they will not pose a military threat to the world.
> The information below may be related to the recent debate in the Japanese parliament and statements by the Defense Minister over how Japan would respond to extraterrestrials appearing over Japanese airspace that display peaceful intent. It appears nation states are moving forward in developing public policy on how to respond to extraterrestrials showing up. So if the information below is accurate, then it is likely that we will see more examples of governments making official statements concerning how they would respond to extraterrestrials that show up over their airspace. It is likely that parliamentarians around the world will start receiving briefings to help them develop public policy concerning extraterrestrial life. Such briefings will probably extend to prominent media sources who will give more coverage to UFO sightings in popular media outlets such as Larry King Live. Increased media reports will first likely lead to disclosures of secret antigravity technologies that have been withheld for over 50 years, as a prelude to official disclsoure of extraterresrial life. The source's reference to suicides is probably related to those who will learn that much of what they have learned and believed over a lifetime was a lie. The 1961 Brookings Report referred to scientists as being most vulnerable to the disclosure of extraterrestrial life since it will make redundant many of the cherished scientific theories and models held by this community.
> ...


If this is all bullshit then someone has one hell of an imagination and too much time on there hands. 

I am going to continue reading and report back later.


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## Erniedytn (Feb 29, 2008)

There is something else I have noticed about this website as well. I am on page 13 and "anonymous" has yet to say why the EBE's were here and what caused them to crash in 1947.


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## email468 (Feb 29, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> There is a shitton of scientific data within those pages. The problem is it's all greek to us because supposedly the laws of physics as we know them are not the same in other solar systems due to the nature of the different stars behavior.


If "the laws of physics as we know them are not the same in other solar systems due to the nature of the different stars behavior" were true, we would not be able to accurately predict comets' return based on trajectory as they exit our solar system and circle other stars - but we can. We wouldn't be able to predict a distant star's wobble is caused by an orbiting planet - but we can. Also, there would be no way to accurately predict a distant stars movement across the sky if the laws of physics behaved differently for extra-solar stars - but we can do all these things and much more. Therefore, it appears that in the viewable universe physical laws are constant and your postulation that "the laws of physics as we know them are not the same in other solar systems due to the nature of the different stars behavior" is false.

Unless I misunderstood you and you were talking about different physical laws acting differently under extreme conditions (near the speed of light for example) - but that is already observed, researched and utilized.

my two cents...


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## Erniedytn (Feb 29, 2008)

Ok Buzz Killington...

I didn't make that assumption...the author of the website, or rather the Mr. Anonymous states this in his letters to the author of the website. Have you read any of it? If no then start here:

Serpo.org - The Zeta Reticuli Exchange Program (Release 1)


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## Erniedytn (Feb 29, 2008)

I skimmed through the first few pages and found this on page 3:



> I also realize your list of quizzical people have numerous probing questions. I'll try to answer them, but you must understand that all of this information is contained in a huge voluminous book. There are literally hundreds of pages of scientific calculations trying to understand Serpo, the orbit, etc. I could not possibly relate all of that information via e-mail.
> 
> Our scientists had the same questions, as posed by your audience. Our scientists questioned our team members and the information they gathered. Our scientists could not understand how the orbit of Serpo could revolve around the two suns at the distance measured.
> 
> ...


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## Titania (Feb 29, 2008)

email468 said:


> If "the laws of physics as we know them are not the same in other solar systems due to the nature of the different stars behavior" were true, we would not be able to accurately predict comets' return based on trajectory as they exit our solar system and circle other stars - but we can. We wouldn't be able to predict a distant star's wobble is caused by an orbiting planet - but we can. Also, there would be no way to accurately predict a distant stars movement across the sky if the laws of physics behaved differently for extra-solar stars - but we can do all these things and much more. Therefore, it appears that in the viewable universe physical laws are constant and your postulation that "the laws of physics as we know them are not the same in other solar systems due to the nature of the different stars behavior" is false.
> 
> Unless I misunderstood you and you were talking about different physical laws acting differently under extreme conditions (near the speed of light for example) - but that is already observed, researched and utilized.
> 
> my two cents...


 
You certainly know your cosmology. That was sobering thx.


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## email468 (Feb 29, 2008)

serpo is not science - he takes well known scientific principals then using various assumptions, fallacies, and some absurdities, obfuscates the message so badly it becomes incomprehensible. It isn't even good science fiction let alone good science.

He has done this for years and years so it would take some dedicated scientists years and years to go through everything debunking. But since a cursory reading of the "theories" is so absurd, it would be akin to making sure Uri Geller is still a fake and faith-healers are making it up. another words, to even debunk the ridiculous lends credence to its claims.


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## Erniedytn (Feb 29, 2008)

Man these new porn avatars people are using is killing me. How am I supposed to think straight looking at that shit.......


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## Erniedytn (Feb 29, 2008)

email468 said:


> serpo is not science - he takes well known scientific principals then using various assumptions, fallacies, and some absurdities, obfuscates the message so badly it becomes incomprehensible. It isn't even good science fiction let alone good science.
> 
> He has done this for years and years so it would take some dedicated scientists years and years to go through everything debunking. But since a cursory reading of the "theories" is so absurd, it would be akin to making sure Uri Geller is still a fake and faith-healers are making it up. another words, to even debunk the ridiculous lends credence to its claims.


So basically your saying it's all bullshit right?


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## email468 (Feb 29, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> So basically your saying it's all bullshit right?


not really. i am saying he is taking real scientific things and twisting them into - if not actual bullshit - something close enough to smell the same.

There is enough accuracies in there to draw you in - but after you realize some of the assumptions he is drawing and conclusions he jumps to - its true pseudo-scientific nature becomes more pronounced. But that doesn't mean some legitimate science isn't there - it is his conclusions that are faulty.

That's why i wouldn't say it is all bullshit - just the important parts.


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## Erniedytn (Feb 29, 2008)

OK Med, I just got to page 19 and have found the first references to the US using alien technology.



> IV) ECHELON:
> 
> According to Wikipedia.org, ECHELON is a highly secretive world-wide
> signals intelligence and analysis network run by the UK-USA Community.
> ...


 
_Patriot Act_ possibly?


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## medicineman (Mar 1, 2008)

Titania said:


> You certainly know your cosmology. That was sobering thx.


Dear Titania. I would love to meet the person in your avatar, I'm in lust with her.


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## email468 (Mar 1, 2008)

Titania said:


> You certainly know your cosmology. That was sobering thx.


thank you. i study it.


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## LION~of~ZION (Mar 1, 2008)

Of the trillions of planets orbiting stars that exist within this particular universe are we the sole planet with life upon it? Not by a long shot

In fact to believe so would be highly naive and egotistical to an extreme extent in my personal opinion.

Is it possible that these life forms possess technology that far surpasses our own due to elements and physical forces we have not yet witnnessed upon this particular planet? yes of course it is. To say we understand the entire universe as vast as it is again would be naive.

Its a fact we all must face. Time to loosen up and realize we arent alone in this universe. And yes some of them may be hostile just as we are and have been toward each other.

Some of them may be peaceful. No one ever said our existence will be defined simply by the planet on which we exist. Just like no one every said life is easy.

Like anything else we accept it and deal with it as events unfold. Better to accept the truth then live in denial. Fear gets us nowhere...accepting reality, understanding or attempting to understand solves problems.


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## LION~of~ZION (Mar 1, 2008)

I agree its conjecture but for some strange reason I continue to believe the odds are highly against it....no life upon other planets that is


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## email468 (Mar 1, 2008)

LION~of~ZION said:


> I agree its conjecture but for some strange reason I continue to believe the odds are highly against it....no life upon other planets that is


in case you're wondering... I deleted my post after i re-read yours. it became obvious to me that you already understood what i wrote in my post and i was being unnecessarily nit-picky.

i agree - the odds are in favor of life on other planets. though i don't believe they are currently visiting (at least with any human's knowledge).


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## Titania (Mar 1, 2008)

medicineman said:


> Dear Titania. I would love to meet the person in your avatar, I'm in lust with her.


That person is me ahah! Thank you very much.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 1, 2008)

Titania said:


> That person is me ahah! Thank you very much.


Well if that's the case then LETS SEE MORE!!!!!!!!


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## Titania (Mar 1, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Well if that's the case then LETS SEE MORE!!!!!!!!


Hmmm, if you say so... Be kind this was my first shoot!


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## LION~of~ZION (Mar 2, 2008)

Titania said:


> Hmmm, if you say so... Be kind this was my first shoot!


All I can say is MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!


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## Erniedytn (Mar 2, 2008)

So if you have Google Earth check this shit out. I'm anxious to hear some peoples "explanations" of this.

Edit: WTF happened to the files I uploaded? Will it not take Google Earth bookmarks?


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## Schmidty (Mar 2, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> So if you have Google Earth check this shit out. I'm anxious to hear some peoples "explanations" of this.
> 
> Edit: WTF happened to the files I uploaded? Will it not take Google Earth bookmarks?


Hehe, The Men in Black must be watching...


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## Erniedytn (Mar 2, 2008)

Schmidty said:


> Hehe, The Men in Black must be watching...


Must be man....I tried that shit like 5 times and they won't upload....IDK what's wrong..........


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## Erniedytn (Mar 2, 2008)

Here ya go......now......WTF are those all about?


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## Erniedytn (Mar 3, 2008)

No takers huh.......


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## Erniedytn (Mar 3, 2008)

Titania said:


> Hmmm, if you say so... Be kind this was my first shoot!


That's it?


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## Titania (Mar 3, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> That's it?


 
I dare not show any more graphic images.


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## Zekedogg (Mar 3, 2008)

Are you really a female?


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## Erniedytn (Mar 3, 2008)

Is any of this accurate:



> In OUR science, there are two (2) basic types of bonds by which atoms
> form molecules - ionic and covalent bonds. An atom is normally
> electrically neutral. It has the same number of positively charged
> protons in its nucleus as it has negatively charged electrons in captive
> ...


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## TEUFELHuNDEN420 (Mar 3, 2008)

sounds legit, i dont know where you're quoting this from but, the method for the experiment sounds just like a particle accelerator where they blast fuckin protons and mofukkin neutrons and shit like that at each other to make new elements by chance.. 

Either that or i am way too high and am reading some fuckered up alien stuffS... o wait i am just reading alien stuffs because its imPOSsible to Be 2 HI


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## email468 (Mar 3, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Is any of this accurate:


I'm not a chemist but i can tell you that:
if i were dividing chemical bonds into two categories, it would be weak and strong - ionic and covalent bonds being two types of strong. But the thing is - whoever wrote this is making a big deal about some unknown 3rd bond - but makes no mention of the many other types of chemical bonds such as the following:
Bent bonds
3c-2e
3c-4e
metallic bond
polar covalent bond
hydrogen bond
van der Waals (dipole)

This lack of proper classification and let's face it baloney (there are obviously way more ways to bond than two plus an unknown) means whatever follows is based on a faulty premise. But what follows isn't even theory it is him explaining how he can't explain because it is so complicated no one (himself included) can understand it.

and then he mentions "OUR" science ... er there is science not our science - your science, my science .... just science. Then he flat out says "I KNOW THIS IS VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND. That is why we still DON'T understand it." He admits he has no clue and yet continues to "explain" this mysterious unknown something that does what again?

I wouldn't call this research, science or even a theory.

Now that I've handed in my homework assignment, I have one for you if you're up to it. The next item you find that you wonder if it is true or not - research and debunk it yourself. Even if you believe it, try to at least find where the argument might be weak or have some holes in it.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 5, 2008)

Cool thanx email. Honestly I wouldn't even know where to start with that shit!!!!!


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## Erniedytn (Mar 5, 2008)

Titania said:


> I dare not show any more graphic images.


Um OK....so is that new avatar you too?


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## email468 (Mar 5, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Cool thanx email. Honestly I wouldn't even know where to start with that shit!!!!!


I would strongly encourage you to start by reading: "The Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. That is a solid base on which to build.


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## Titania (Mar 5, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Um OK....so is that new avatar you too?


 
Do you know they've taken the word gullible out of the Dictionary.


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Mar 5, 2008)

Wooaaaaahhhhh thats crazy is it some kind of google joke?




Erniedytn said:


> Here ya go......now......WTF are those all about?


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## Titania (Mar 5, 2008)

email468 said:


> I would strongly encourage you to start by reading: "The Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. That is a solid base on which to build.


 
Hey you read that, nice 1. Great book and Author.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

-Carl Sagan-


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## email468 (Mar 5, 2008)

Titania said:


> Hey you read that, nice 1. Great book and Author.
> 
> "It is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
> 
> -Carl Sagan-


I've read a good bit of Sagan but i think this particular book is extra appropriate. I think my favorite user-friendly science author is Dawkins but Sagan pushes him to second place once in awhile.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 5, 2008)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> Wooaaaaahhhhh thats crazy is it some kind of google joke?


Wow...at least someone looked at it. Nope...no joke FPT....it's right there, in plain sight. You wanna see more go here:

Lot's of strange things in Nevada desert - Google Earth Hacks Forums

There are a few that are obvious military installations, but still interesting nonetheless. While your at it take a look at Greenland and check out that 49 mile long orange thing dead in the center.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 5, 2008)

The Serpo dude says that Carl Sagan was involved with that project directly...probably baloney as well.


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## Titania (Mar 5, 2008)

email468 said:


> I've read a good bit of Sagan but i think this particular book is extra appropriate. I think my favorite user-friendly science author is Dawkins but Sagan pushes him to second place once in awhile.


#

reading the Blind watchmaker at the moment.


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Mar 5, 2008)

Type into google maps Cerne Abbas  those damn celts


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## Erniedytn (Mar 5, 2008)

What am I looking for exactly? I typed it in and it took me to the Shire in Middle Earth....


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## email468 (Mar 5, 2008)

Titania said:


> #
> 
> reading the Blind watchmaker at the moment.


great, great book! The Ancestor's Tale is another good one. And The God Delusion is awesome. I just finished The Devil's Chaplain.

If you're interested in more titles and websites drop me a PM and I'll provide some - though you are probably familiar with them already.


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Mar 6, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> What am I looking for exactly? I typed it in and it took me to the Shire in Middle Earth....


Here I tried the kmz method


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## Erniedytn (Mar 6, 2008)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> Here I tried the kmz method


Cool...I'll check that out when I get home. I don't have Google Earth on my PC here at work.


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## ace1059 (Mar 9, 2008)

wasup yallLl! ok after i went to church today i had to go to my friends house to feed his pets (hes outa town) so i got done and when outside and noticed the nice clear sky, then i saw a plain really high in the sky and was just lookin up and i saw this white thing in the air and it was smaller then the plain, it had no exsaust trail like the plain did and it was moving back and fourth or my eyes was just trippin but so i went back inside to lock up and the it was fukin gone lol


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## Erniedytn (Mar 9, 2008)

Fake Plastic Trees said:


> Here I tried the kmz method


Yeah see...what's that all about? They say that there are references to thing back in 1694.(Cerne Abbas giant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Why the hell would we have been carving shit like this in the countryside back then if we had no means of flying?


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## email468 (Mar 9, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Yeah see...what's that all about? They say that there are references to thing back in 1694.(Cerne Abbas giant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Why the hell would we have been carving shit like this in the countryside back then if we had no means of flying?


cause we can see it on top of a hill where everyone might gather for a ceremony? you can also see nearly the whole thing at ground level.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 9, 2008)

OK so what's all that shit in the Nevada desert?


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## Erniedytn (Mar 9, 2008)

Nevermind, forget I even asked. I could care less.


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## Fake Plastic Trees (Mar 10, 2008)

Ernie dewwwwwwwd I'm with ya. Sorry I posted the Cerne Abbas Giant it kind of derailed the thread. Weird no-one else looked at you google earth links though. At first I thought it was a google joke but then why would they do that. To be honest I am really scratching my head as to why no-one else looked, thats America for ya, they were all watching the game instead


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## Erniedytn (Mar 10, 2008)

Yeah, or they already know why it's there, who made it, and what it stands for. 

I'm so over it man.


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## email468 (Mar 10, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Yeah, or they already know why it's there, who made it, and what it stands for.
> 
> I'm so over it man.


We may not know why, who, or what but as long as there is a rational or natural explanation for a given phenomena - that would be the reasonable and logical stance to take.

The giant ground carvings like the Cerne Abbas Giant is a great example. There is no evidence whatsoever that they were created by or for aliens (or some advanced flying things) and yet that is a "theory". First, you'd have to prove that aliens existed and you would then need to prove that these carvings are somehow related to them. Whereas the natural explanation of the ancient peoples used these in some kind of ceremony does not rely on anything unproven or supernatural. It is a reasonable explanation that uses a natural explanation of phenomena we already observe (ancient peoples had a lot of ceremonies). Is it the correct one? I don't know but i would say it is the most likely explanation.

Skeptics don't poo-poo everything in a knee-jerk reaction as you seem to infer. I, like most other skeptics i've met, am always willing to change my mind when presented with evidence provided there is not an equally (or more likely a better) rational, naturalistic explanation.

An example: a god-fearing faith healer claims he is able to cure people through the "laying on of hands".

Theories: 
1) God granted him the power to do what he says he can do.

2) The faith healer himself has the power to heal (but not granted from God).

3) The faith healer "believes" he has the power but really doesn't and the people that are "healed" are either mistaken (they feel better during the healing but find out when they get home they feel just as miserable or more so), the healing is a result of the placebo effect, or a combination.

4) The faith healer is a lying sack of shit in it for the money and has planted people in the audience to be "healed" and for the rest he uses trickery.

5) I'm sure there are other possibilities...

Are all these theories equally valid? Which of these theories is most likely true? Have any faith healing in the past or present been explained by any of these theories?

This is what a skeptic does - looks for the most likely rational explanation. And regardless how you think or feel or believe, the skeptics are usually correct to be skeptical. Skepticism and the scientific method are the best tools so far to really understand the world around us. Science is magic that actually works for everyone equally.

as an aside, i would add that to all the naysayers or folks who think scientists don't know what they are talking about - or buzzkills, i say look around you. See that jet flying overhead? Do you make calls on a cell phone? how about that computer you're working with? Try sending someone a message half-way around the world using some special powers like ESP or send an email/make a cellular call... which will arrive faster? Or to bring the point home, perhaps I should just ask - which will arrive?

Unless you are a liar, a cheater or a fraud, skeptics and scientists are on YOUR side - they are not the enemy.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 10, 2008)

Aliens are not real, they have never visited Earth, and we are utterly alone in the universe. The Cerne Abbas giant was created by people high on mushrooms, as were the "anomolies" in the Nevada desert, and oh yeah, there are no such things as conspiracy theories, prophecies, or any other subject that could be relevant to any of this.


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## email468 (Mar 10, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Aliens are not real, they have never visited Earth, and we are utterly alone in the universe. The Cerne Abbas giant was created by people high on mushrooms, as were the "anomolies" in the Nevada desert, and oh yeah, there are no such things as conspiracy theories, prophecies, or any other subject that could be relevant to any of this.


I'll stay off. post away.


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## soulflyx2k (Apr 1, 2008)

LOL.
You know, it is quite the indulgence to not let yourself believe in any Alien life. 
Indulge away.. never ends up good.. just like a indulgence in beer.


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## Dank O Licious (Apr 13, 2008)

somebody is a little high


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## blonddie07 (Apr 15, 2008)

YouTube - The two most important crop circles ever. No joke


I dont know.. i dont see how a human being can make this in 1 night..

Correct me if im wrong.


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## email468 (Apr 15, 2008)

blonddie07 said:


> YouTube - The two most important crop circles ever. No joke
> 
> 
> I dont know.. i dont see how a human being can make this in 1 night..
> ...


i'll PM you - don't want to start this up again....


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## UshUsh (Apr 16, 2008)

Widow you were ripped as fuck.


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## soulflyx2k (Apr 17, 2008)

Hey again, thought maybe id give ya guys some entertainment.
If you guys are interested in these conspiracies, or truth at all check this out.

The government kills people that experiment with this suppressed technology, such as nikoli tesla.

These are just examples showing the absolute fucking absurd bullshit people just accept in their everyday lives, never think twice because "the government would never lie to me".

The truth is that our very nature was stripped from us, and the people like the bilderberg group and others keep this technology suppressed so that they can continue to control the world.

Enjoy and Peace 

This is not only a simple free energy experimentation, this includes a vast amount of other stuff... levitating objects, splitting the strongest metal into pieces... all with mere frequencies and overlays and etc.

YouTube - New Energy Series 2: John Hutchison Part 1

YouTube - Free Energy John Hutchison -High Qual. MUST SEE! [Part 5]


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## LemonKush (Apr 5, 2009)

^^^ guy above me has almost the exact same thoughts as I do. 

First off, that technology the Canadian scientist John H has discovered has existed for a very long time. He has had all of his scientific equipment stolen by the gov twice for no reason other than national security. That technology existed as early as we know since 1961 when a private experiement was done at pearl harbor and a man named Thomas Townsend Brown discovered that if you charge a metal object with a large amount of electric it will move very very raipidly toward a positive pole.

Now taking that into consideration I would like to explain something I feel very deeply about. Germany many many years ago was the center of intelligence and science. They knew everything light years before we did. USA was in competition with them for scientific advancements. USA thought they had a metal that was undestroyable, unbendable, and in every way un changeable. We sent that material to the Germans and they sent it back cut in half. We quickly gave up on trying to top the Germans. Now if you youtube or google German UFO's you will find that they did exist and even crashed one in russia. Hitler tunneled near the north pole for 3 years before returning home and getting killed in his mysterious bunker. Now I do not believe he went there and took his own life, I instead think he was covering up the fact that he was going to live in a deep underground base he had worked on at the north pole for the fact that the north pole is the strongest magnetic sorce of this propulsion theory that we wouldn't discover for years later. If Hutchinsons theories are correct then he would gain the most power by living at the north pole. 
Once the war was over operation paperclip was a CIA op that smuggled in 1500 nazi officers to work as top scientists and stragetic advisors of companies like nasa and what would become area 51. I think we made a deal with Hitler to say he was dead, pretent, free prisoners from camps and let Hitler go about his business in trade for being included in scientific findings. After the war America sent a very very large amount of ships and planes to the north pole to take out Hitlers base. they got there and found an ice wall blocking their entrance. they breached the wall eventually but were attacked by UFO's. War veterans talk about it and how it nearly whiped out the entire force that came. UFO's from space or from Hitler? We never went to attack again.


there is way too much science in our world to believe aliens don't exist, we can make worm holes and bend space, what makes you think there isnt some longer lasting race out there that can't do more?

Anyway I think the beings, us people and all living things are all still creations of God and that our world is a learning environment, a chance for us to become who we need to become in order to be accepted into the realm of God; Heaven. Life is a test too, God keeps himself hidden just enough that we will never really know if he is there or not so we end up choosing to continue to believe or to follow science and look for something else... and that something leads us to the devil. 

Last but not least I think my beliefs on the world can be best explained by watching Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. You have a great man that is unsure about letting people into his heaven, he finally does try outs and through temptations people are swayed to do wrong. Slugworth is the devil and he leans the children to do wrong but in the end you find out he was an employee of Wonka just like i believe the devil is an employee of God just doing what is needed to make this test work. At the end of the book you read that Charlie looks down at the bad children out in the parking lot and ask if they'll be ok... Wonka replies, yes charlie they will all be ok, everyone of them. To me this story is exactly like the story of our world, we are in a test and right or wrong we will be ok but we do need to go through this test.

if youve read to the end then thank you for taking the time to read through my beliefs. I'm still lost in a world of ideas but this is where I am in life currently.


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## LemonKush (Apr 5, 2009)

for some good reading check out information on the pain gun. I work for a company that makes a small part for it and i know it exists. There have been a couple tv shows that talk about it and demonstrate its use. imagine it being used from an airplane or HAA on an entire city


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## daywalkerneo (Jul 1, 2009)

william brambleys book "gods of eden" is a must read


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## ill (Apr 22, 2010)

> why are there still apes on this planet if we descended from them


dunno about all this but had to pick this out for people that use this as a counter argument to evolution, think about why there so many strains of cannabis if you only need one to get you high lol.. and all the different strains are proof of evolution


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## lpoolfc08 (Apr 28, 2010)

Take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DoqcdlFYrs&NR=1


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## Killer Vanilla (May 1, 2010)

i think if someone doesnt believe in aliens then they are super super narrow minded because to me its 100% yes, not only will there be super evolved aliens but then the opposite aswell like complete fucking retards crawling around there planet eating random shit off the floor haha

if it wasnt for the thought of something intresting actually happening in the future i would rather be dead than do nothing but work 9-5 everyday and doing fuck all except the pointless life most humans are blindly leading.
not to sound depressing or anythin but i find space amazing like every single person on the earth should but some are to retarded to actually look around and think "were the fuck am i" because they were born oneday and slowly gained a mind and never questionned a thing around them

i could keep ranting but i will leave it for now cause its 1.30 am and i need to watch jay n silent bob n go to bed


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## IgrowBIGG (May 6, 2010)

WE are the aliens. There is an unexplaineable mutation in the genes of human beings called the H1RA mutation (Or HRNA or something like that i forget). The man who found this mutation during the beginning of the discovery of genetics brought it to attention. Scientists came to the answer, or theory, that over the 600 million years from which we supposidly evolved from animals, the genetics in apes, or the amino acids that make up your DNA, mutated and evoloved into human DNA due to this HR1N (or wutever it is) mutation. There's one BIGGG problem with this theory. Human DNA, and DNA in general is so complex that we still today only understand about 5% of DNA and how it works. It would take hundreds, or maybe even thousands times longer than 600 million years for animals genes to mutate and become as complex as human DNA. What does that tell us? Well, heres where your mind gets blown. The idea has been proposed, by some pretty smart fuckin people (Top scientists and physicists), that another life form or civilization came to our planet, Earth, and with their unimagineably advanced technology mutated animal DNA to create human DNA and therefor human beings. This raises the question why? Why would they do this? Well, they obviously would have done this for a reason. I can imagine many reasons, some terrible, some maybe good, but im just speculating. Maybe once we can learn or decode the other 95% of our human DNA we will be able to see and understand why something like this would have been done. Don't be ignorant people, religion is ignorant, at least through the perception of the standard church goer or spiritualist. Advance your thinking and release yourself from the materialistic tunnels of reality that we are stuck in. WE are the aliens.


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## Philly_Buddah (May 8, 2010)

^^^

Ive heard this as well. Its called HAR1, and I agree with all of that. Matter of fact I just saw a program about that same thing around a week ago.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 9, 2010)

IGB, PB, show me any piece of evidence that supports that idea.

IGB, in your post, you mentioned a few things that made me think right off the bat that you don't have a very good understanding of the origins of life. DNA, we've mapped out our ENTIRE GENOME, the whole thing, 100% of it. It took 4 years to accomplish, but we did it. Human and chimpanzee DNA is 96% identical, what does that tell you?

Understanding science has it's advantages if you actually understand it.


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## IgrowBIGG (May 10, 2010)

Yes it does so you should probably think before you speak. Do you really think that I just made that whole thing up? n then someone else agreed with me? lol. We have only decoded and understand approximately 5% of our DNA, otherwise there would be no arguement about where we came from. If you were right than scientists would have physical proof and evidence of where we came from and some of the best physicists and scientists on our planet wouldn't support either this theory or another similar throry presuming that we did not come from here on earth.WE DID NOT EVOLVE FROM ANIMALS HERE ON OUR PLANET. Think about it, in real sense a lizard is closer to an ape than we are. I guess those dumb redneck Jesus lovers were right about one thing, we aint come from no monkey lol. Also, we found a meteorite in the North Pole not too long ago that has Organic Elements and Materials on it PROVING that there is other organic life out there. I can understand if you don't agree with the theory I was talking about, I'm not even sure if i do, but c'mon man broaden your thinking we are nowhere near the most intelligent life forms out there and there is no God. Or at least not in the sense that most ignorant church going people believe.


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## IgrowBIGG (May 10, 2010)

Read this
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/esp_vida_alien_18n.htm


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## Wild (May 10, 2010)

IgrowBIGG said:


> WE DID NOT EVOLVE FROM ANIMALS HERE ON OUR PLANET. Think about it, in real sense a lizard is closer to an ape than we are. Also, we found a meteorite in the North Pole not too long ago that has Organic Elements and Materials on it PROVING that there is other organic life out there.


A theory is exactly that, a theory, an idea which snowballs. Science and Religion are often wrong, the place they come together is in believing that there may well be some from of life in the sky/heavens and both are aiming to get there, as if it is programmed into us.

As a youngster, before even thinking of human evolution, I knew we were apes. Look at yourself, watch some apes, there are many similarities. For now, we should use what we have discovered from genetics as a guide, and so far they prove we are between 95 and 99% ape, in the future it may be further proven or disproven. If aliens exist on space craft, how do you entirely know that they themselves, did not evolve on this planet as an earlier from of ape? More so, how are you sure we didn't evolve here, are we that much GREATER than the life surrounding us? Or have our ancestors just passed on opposoble thumbs, we've figured things out through trial and error, just like an ape, we share many qualities with many creatures. The attitude of people believing that we are far better than all nature around us maybe the mass stupidity that will kill us off.

The meteorite was an amazing find, to me it showed a possibility that life on Earth could have originated from a collision too. However, as far as i'm aware its organic compunds could exist, if it does prove life is somewhere then it should have been far larger news.

We are aall a little close minded, believe in each possibility and then you can't go wrong. One of the only things I firmly believe in is extra-terrestrial life. I think the Hitchhikers Guide writes that the more a intelligent race discovers the meanings of life, the more lathargic and depressed they all become. 


ps- I just posted this elsewhere, but as these posts are talking about origins, read about our Neandertal ancestors:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8660940.stm


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## bigv1976 (May 10, 2010)

I say it's just like anything else.... If you don't know first hand then you dont know so how can anyone say aliens dont exist?


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## Evil Buddies (May 10, 2010)

check out some of the sumerian history very interesting im open minded but if u do some research u will come to the conclusion that aliens or beings from not this world exist or existed. Now the pyramids of giza man cannot recreate them exactly how they are with the technology today its impossible. The historians would let u believe that it was done with me with ropes pulling stones. That's bullshit if we can't recreate the pyramids how are a supposed primative race of man build them. There are other buildings to cant remember the name but there is no technology on earth that can move these blocks. 

One of my theories is that aliens came from another planet or dimension and taught man how to farm and build. They then couldnt resist the women of earth and mated with them. The result is us they went back to there world. I believe that the direct decendants hid the technology from man as technology would destroy the earth. Now in the past 200 years this hidden technology was found. Thats why in the last 200 years technology has evolved so quick. 

The truth is we dont know what is the truth but we can put all the evidence we have and make our own minds up. If your interested in this subject take a look at sumerian history and the annunaki. There are various documentaries on youtube for u to look at. 

Have an open mind as the possibilities could be endless. We could just be an experiment in an alien laboratory what they have made.



Evil


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## Padawanbater2 (May 10, 2010)

Evil Buddies said:


> check out some of the sumerian history very interesting im open minded but if u do some research u will come to the conclusion that aliens or beings from not this world exist or existed. Now the pyramids of giza man cannot recreate them exactly how they are with the technology today its impossible. The historians would let u believe that it was done with me with ropes pulling stones. That's bullshit if we can't recreate the pyramids how are a supposed primative race of man build them. There are other buildings to cant remember the name but there is no technology on earth that can move these blocks.
> 
> One of my theories is that aliens came from another planet or dimension and taught man how to farm and build. They then couldnt resist the women of earth and mated with them. The result is us they went back to there world. I believe that the direct decendants hid the technology from man as technology would destroy the earth. Now in the past 200 years this hidden technology was found. Thats why in the last 200 years technology has evolved so quick.
> 
> ...



...and your evidence for all this is...?

We can build *any* building that has ever been built throughout history today.


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## Evil Buddies (May 10, 2010)

u are so wrong and professors would prove this to u do the research urself


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## Evil Buddies (May 10, 2010)

So far the message indicates that whoever built the Pyramid knew the Earth well: the length of the year, the radius of curvature, the standard measurement techniques, the average height of the continents, and the center of the land mass. They were able to consruct something that we still cannot construct today, and they were able to tie all these things together in this single structure. Were they extraterrestrial, or perhaps even supernatural? The answer is not yet clear. However, thus far we have examined only the outside of the Pyramid. 

This paragraph is from this link read it and make ur own mind up http://www.europa.com/~edge/pyramid.html


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## IgrowBIGG (May 11, 2010)

Yes EB you are right about the pyramids. Not only about all that you said but also the pyramids perfectly align with a compass rose pointing N S E W. Only thing is, they were built thousands of years before the first compass!!!


Evil Buddies said:


> u are so wrong and professors would prove this to u do the research urself


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## westhamm1132 (May 12, 2010)

any one herd of billy meier?? he has a shit load of photos has metal samples that dissapered after the first scientist that tested them sed they carnt of been made on earth. Hes got sound recordings and hes supposedly used one of there wepons on a tree he sounds legit look into him and watch this http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-billy-meier-story/ also serch him on youtube.


i dunno what to think of this guy but he has given PROOF that has been tested and he has 1 arm and is a pesant from switserland and passed a lie detector also photo shop or even wide spred computers wernt around when he took alot of the photos.


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## Wild (May 12, 2010)

Evil Buddies said:


> So far the message indicates that whoever built the Pyramid knew the Earth well: the length of the year, the radius of curvature, the standard measurement techniques, the average height of the continents, and the center of the land mass.





IgrowBIGG said:


> Yes EB you are right about the pyramids. Not only about all that you said but also the pyramids perfectly align with a compass rose pointing N S E W. Only thing is, they were built thousands of years before the first compass!!!


Also, read about the relation between Pi and the dimensions of the Great Pyramid, aswell as the pyramids reflecting the positions of the stars around 11,000 years ago. Pyramids have always seemed bizzare, why would people of different cultures from around the world build the same shaped buildings and why bother anyway, they're not a particularly practical design for any human civilizations uses. Remember that we know of pyramids in Mexico, China and Egypt (perhaps there are more).

One piece of advice though, don't underestimate the humans who have been here before. It seems that past peoples are often assumed primitive, but we still know very little of them really. For the brain to progress, it would need regular challenge, don't assume humanity is at its smartest today. Right from the start: Hunter/gatherer = challenge : Farmer/cook = greater challenge : Repetitive lives, reality tv, copying the past & fast food = nothing

Padawanbater2 - Where is the evidence that the theory of the ancient astronauts isn't true?
So far, it seems more likely than not, the world prays to gods (our creators) from the heavens, we've discovered the Piri Reis map (birds eye view map over Egypt and far beyond), we've seen enigmatic markings that make no sense (eg - candelabra style arrows near the lines of Nazca, etc). I'll stop there, theres much related which remains unexplained, however I admit, I like solid evidence.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 12, 2010)

There is just not enough evidence to say it's proof of anything. We can speculate all we want, I'm just interested in cold hard facts.

When you think about how large the universe is it's not plausible for another advanced species to have visited the Earth, if they did, we'd have hard evidence.


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## westhamm1132 (May 12, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> There is just not enough evidence to say it's proof of anything. We can speculate all we want, I'm just interested in cold hard facts.
> 
> When you think about how large the universe is it's not plausible for another advanced species to have visited the Earth, if they did, we'd have hard evidence.



watch the video in the link i posted they test it and all the test say hes good proof but most people will never belve untill they see one in real life no matter how mutch evedance they get


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## Padawanbater2 (May 12, 2010)

westhamm1132 said:


> watch the video in the link i posted they test it and all the test say hes good proof but most people will never belve untill they see one in real life no matter how mutch evedance they get


One look at the wikipedia page on that guy and you can tell he's no different than any other con artist.


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## Wild (May 13, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> There is just not enough evidence to say it's proof of anything. We can speculate all we want, I'm just interested in cold hard facts.
> 
> When you think about how large the universe is it's not plausible for another advanced species to have visited the Earth, if they did, we'd have hard evidence.


True, but the larger the universe is, the greater chance of many extra-terrestrial beings. Our galaxy contains a 100 billion stars and in just afew years we have discovered many extra-solar planetoids, there could be an highly advanced species quite (in an astronmical scale) close. You can't test for the truth unless you've speculated the possibilities first.



Padawanbater2 said:


> if they did, we'd have hard evidence.


Life has been on this planet for many millenia but there must be countless species we haven't found and many human artefacts we still can't understand. Unfortunatley, hard evidence is lost over time and (hypothetical) any intelligent aliens would probably remove their clear tracks. Perhaps it is our fault, for not passing on the tales / myths of the ancient peoples. We have very little hard evidence of our evolutionary story alltogether.


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## Philly_Buddah (May 13, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> There is just not enough evidence to say it's proof of anything. We can speculate all we want, I'm just interested in cold hard facts.
> 
> When you think about how large the universe is it's not plausible for another advanced species to have visited the Earth, if they did, we'd have hard evidence.


We do have hard evidence, you just havent seen it.

What makes you think average citzens like you and me would be able to see the hard evidence that the government and a select few have and have seen? Theres been several groups and operations made by the government itself to try and cover up everything they could about the space ships and the aliens. Ever notice how even when evidence is shown by others the government still lies about it and brushes it off as either nothing or makes up some ridiculous explanation or excuse for it? They dont even admit to things that are clearly and blatantly evident, say people see a UFO and this is backed up with recordings of the craft on radar, the government or whatever organization will initially say they had nothing flying then admit to having something flying to explain this away, other times they have no comment on it.

I can see from your posts that youre not that well informed and are still at the very beginning stages and states of mind on these topics especially as far as understanding and doing research. Do some real research for yourself, watch some real documentaries, talk to some of these people and go look for the evidence. Trust me its out there, you just cant expect to be so out in the open. Understand that people have been killed over this stuff and trying to show evidence.



Padawanbater2 said:


> One look at the wikipedia page on that guy and you can tell he's no different than any other con artist.


I did a lot of research on Billy Meier and that whole story a few years ago, its definitely not all BS. There were some parts of the story that sounded unbelievable. Multiple people that otherwise had nothing to do with Billy Meier have vouched for a lot of this as theyve seen a lot of it their self, and experienced a lot of it. Several people have brought back a lot of the evidence and pictures he took and shown them at presentations, look it up some of its even on youtube.

Billy Meier is definitely not the only one though. Look around and youll see that is so much proof of intelligent extraterrestrial life out there, certain things that arent supposed to be anywhere near possible by modern humans and technology is happening. All the way down to things like cattle mutiliation and crop circles, the way both are done is impossible with modern human technology


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## Padawanbater2 (May 13, 2010)

Philly_Buddah said:


> We do have hard evidence, you just havent seen it.
> 
> What makes you think average citzens like you and me would be able to see the hard evidence that the government and a select few have and have seen? Theres been several groups and operations made by the government itself to try and cover up everything they could about the space ships and the aliens. Ever notice how even when evidence is shown by others the government still lies about it and brushes it off as either nothing or makes up some ridiculous explanation or excuse for it? They dont even admit to things that are clearly and blatantly evident, say people see a UFO and this is backed up with recordings of the craft on radar, the government or whatever organization will initially say they had nothing flying then admit to having something flying to explain this away, other times they have no comment on it.
> 
> ...



So an intelligent life form has visited the Earth, traveled at least 4 light years (as that's the closest star system) to get here, and our governments are covering up their existence? 

Explain to me how that would happen? They have all this technology to travel through outer space but once they get here they can't make their demands known or show themselves to humanity or overcome our governments or what?

How do you explain that?


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## stonedmetalhead1 (May 13, 2010)

Philly_Buddah said:


> We do have hard evidence, you just havent seen it.
> 
> What makes you think average citzens like you and me would be able to see the hard evidence that the government and a select few have and have seen? Theres been several groups and operations made by the government itself to try and cover up everything they could about the space ships and the aliens. Ever notice how even when evidence is shown by others the government still lies about it and brushes it off as either nothing or makes up some ridiculous explanation or excuse for it? They dont even admit to things that are clearly and blatantly evident, say people see a UFO and this is backed up with recordings of the craft on radar, the government or whatever organization will initially say they had nothing flying then admit to having something flying to explain this away, other times they have no comment on it.
> 
> ...


Billy Meier is a lunatic and also considers himself a prophet. Aliens are yet another tool used by the government to keep us occupied. Do I believe aliens exist? Yes! Do I think they've been here? No. I don't even think aliens would be what people expect. To think in all the universe that no other form of life exists would be irrational. I do think the government has technology we don't know about and are responsible for UFO sightings and other unexplainable events. The government just simply doesn't want us to know what technology they do have so they make it seem like a conspiracy. People see a UFO and think aliens; I think government.


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## dirty1 (May 14, 2010)

ive been quite interested in this subject or a while... but only really lookied into it after watching the movie "The Fourth Kind". it has included "actual video and sound recordings" and sparked more interest for me... i then also came across a video (its on youtube) that was about 62 (i think) students in africa in the 1990's, before things were overly commercialised, and all of the students claimed to have seen a ufo land, and beings exit it and look at them, before leaving again. all of these children drew the same descriptive images and all of which claimed to have overwhelming ideas that came into their heads while these "beings" were staring at them. all of these "ideas" contained very similar themes, and i believe my interpretation of them was about our exploitation of earth, and its resources. 

quite a few other video's and recordings of encounters i have heard and seen have contained similar messages (well, interpreted similarly by myself). 

One thing that does make me laugh though, is when people ask whether there is OTHER intelligent life out there... and i dunno, personally i think they should be asking whether there is intelligent life out there, as after a bit of thought the human race could be percieved as very primative. while we have the mental capacity to perform acts percieved as intelligent, we thrive off exploiting others and our earth, to a non-sustainable level, and with the brutality often associated with this exploitation i would not say we are overly intelligent at all, but possibly just greedy. i mean, lets look at Africa, one of the most resource rich continents int he world, yet one of the poorest and most trouble ridden due to wealthier nations using them as a get rich quick scheme. i think back on page 1 when somebody referred to what wold happen if we found other life very true, as exploitation seems to be one of our strongest "human natures". and the fact that there has been millions of witnesses to ufo's and alien encounters worldwide i think that we can assume that they are more intelligent than ourselves, and very different due to the fact that i dont think there is anything leading us to think they are exploiting us...

this may cause some mixed emotions... but oh well...


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## Philly_Buddah (May 15, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> So an intelligent life form has visited the Earth, traveled at least 4 light years (as that's the closest star system) to get here, and our governments are covering up their existence?
> 
> Explain to me how that would happen? They have all this technology to travel through outer space but once they get here they can't make their demands known or show themselves to humanity or overcome our governments or what?
> 
> How do you explain that?


Sounds farfetched (not really), ever consider that they could be working with the government? There could be certain things that theyre allowed and not allowed to do. Or possibly they made the decision themselves and want to keep a distance and just observe us, maybe giving little hints of their existence here and there. If the fact that intelligent extra terrestrials exist was given to the public it would cause a panic and people would be asking so many questions, you could say were underestimating humans but it would be excited and a lot of things would shut down. The cure for aids and all diseases? the truth about god? everything supernatural? where did we come from? religion has most of the planet brainwashed and these people have shown theyre willing to kill many as it is, you really have to consider all these things and what it would mean if aliens really revealed themselves, whole countries would be shut down the world would be a mess possibly millions killes in the process, not certain but its all a major possibility. Little by little were learning more but clearly its not time yet for them to reveal themselves, its declassification and a process.

And humans are looking at ways to reach far away places instantly, everything is connected, many respected people believe its possible. If the aliens are that far advanced they would most likely have found a way to travel faster than the speed of light or instantly, it doesnt have to be worm holes, parallel universes, dimensions, etc.



stonedmetalhead1 said:


> Billy Meier is a lunatic and also considers himself a prophet. Aliens are yet another tool used by the government to keep us occupied. Do I believe aliens exist? Yes! Do I think they've been here? No. I don't even think aliens would be what people expect. To think in all the universe that no other form of life exists would be irrational. I do think the government has technology we don't know about and are responsible for UFO sightings and other unexplainable events. The government just simply doesn't want us to know what technology they do have so they make it seem like a conspiracy. People see a UFO and think aliens; I think government.


 Of course the government has technology we dont know about, thats already a given and has been proven in the past. Just look at the cold war they just couldnt give out all their information on whatever they were doing, same thing now theres always a threat. Its possible that some of it may be the government, but maybe that technology was given to them by extraterrestrials. Theres been cases where theres actually people controlling flying saucers, supposedly the secret is controlling the frequencies I watched several unrelated articles and programs about that.


and to dirty1 I heard of that thing in Africa too, there was actually another similar incident that just happened a few years ago.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 15, 2010)

Philly_Buddah said:


> Sounds farfetched (not really), ever consider that they could be working with the government? There could be certain things that theyre allowed and not allowed to do. Or possibly they made the decision themselves and want to keep a distance and just observe us, maybe giving little hints of their existence here and there. If the fact that intelligent extra terrestrials exist was given to the public it would cause a panic and people would be asking so many questions, you could say were underestimating humans but it would be excited and a lot of things would shut down. The cure for aids and all diseases? the truth about god? everything supernatural? where did we come from? religion has most of the planet brainwashed and these people have shown theyre willing to kill many as it is, you really have to consider all these things and what it would mean if aliens really revealed themselves, whole countries would be shut down the world would be a mess possibly millions killes in the process, not certain but its all a major possibility. Little by little were learning more but clearly its not time yet for them to reveal themselves, its declassification and a process.
> 
> And humans are looking at ways to reach far away places instantly, everything is connected, many respected people believe its possible. If the aliens are that far advanced they would most likely have found a way to travel faster than the speed of light or instantly, it doesnt have to be worm holes, parallel universes, dimensions, etc.


First you say the government is covering them up... then you say the aliens might be working with the government...

And guess what, neither of them make sense.

It's not realistic for such an advanced species to travel to our planet then not be able to overcome our government and it's not realistic for them to be working together. I'm not interested in "well.. maybe.." statements.


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## LightningMcGreen (May 15, 2010)

i kinda see Padawanbater2's point. I mean, if WE could travel back in time to the very first humans, and say "hey, were from the future. we bring you intelligence and technology" they probably wouldnt have the slightest ability to grasp that much evolution in a given time. we would be as useless as insects to intelligence that had those capabilities. why would we be so interesting? we still kill ourselves over the bible, money, and any and everything in between. for all we know we could be an experiment of theirs, much like an ant farm lol but who knos...


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## Philly_Buddah (May 16, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> First you say the government is covering them up... then you say the aliens might be working with the government...
> 
> And guess what, neither of them make sense.
> 
> It's not realistic for such an advanced species to travel to our planet then not be able to overcome our government and it's not realistic for them to be working together. I'm not interested in "well.. maybe.." statements.


The government is covering it up from the public, and they are working with the aliens, its not possible to do both?. 

You say that apparently without realizing there are many different alien species and different situations, some of whats being covered up is the aliens themselves and others are the governments mistakes along with other situations.

Of course its not realistic and I never said it was, the aliens could easily overcome the government and they may be but not in the obvious unintelligent way that youre thinking of. Theyve been visiting us for thousands of years, why would they need to all of a sudden blow up some buildings and appear in front of the whitehouse for everyone in the world?

and if youre not interested in "well, maybe" statements I have to laugh that youre having an argument about aliens as if its possible for me to pull up 100% proof somehow.


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## Philly_Buddah (May 16, 2010)

LightningMcGreen said:


> i kinda see Padawanbater2's point. I mean, if WE could travel back in time to the very first humans, and say "hey, were from the future. we bring you intelligence and technology" they probably wouldnt have the slightest ability to grasp that much evolution in a given time. we would be as useless as insects to intelligence that had those capabilities. why would we be so interesting? we still kill ourselves over the bible, money, and any and everything in between. for all we know we could be an experiment of theirs, much like an ant farm lol but who knos...


Somewhat true, but you have to understand its not just 1 thing out there. Supposedly one of the things out there is very advanced humans either from other areas or that know how to time travel and come back.

Its hard to understand the knowledge of a lifeform with that advanced intelligence and what their intent would be, but some are even coming here for things like human abduction and cattle mutilation so...


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## Padawanbater2 (May 17, 2010)

Philly_Buddah said:


> Somewhat true, but you have to understand its not just 1 thing out there. Supposedly one of the things out there is very advanced humans either from other areas or that know how to time travel and come back.
> 
> Its hard to understand the knowledge of a lifeform with that advanced intelligence and what their intent would be, but some are even coming here for things like human abduction and cattle mutilation so...


1 piece of evidence to support any of the shit you're saying. Just 1.


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## Philly_Buddah (May 17, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> 1 piece of evidence to support any of the shit you're saying. Just 1.


A piece of evidence as in what?

All I can offer you now is internet links to webpages and hour long documentaries. Im sure you could easily google it yourself. If not you have to understand Ive been researching/studying this stuff on and off line for 3-4 years now Ill have to find the links for the online parts again.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 17, 2010)

Philly_Buddah said:


> A piece of evidence as in what?
> 
> All I can offer you now is internet links to webpages and hour long documentaries. Im sure you could easily google it yourself. If not you have to understand Ive been researching/studying this stuff on and off line for 3-4 years now Ill have to find the links for the online parts again.


 
Specifics. I don't want to go through hours of video footage or documentaries. To tell you the truth, I've done it before. They are all the same and leave the audience with even more questions than they had to begin with.

I want you to go through the documentaries or video clips you would send me, pick out the bits that you think are either undeniable proof or scientific proof or some kind of hard evidence to support the idea that an intelligent alien species has visited this planet, or any of the other claims you've been making. 

I don't want speculation, hearsay, or unscientific data - by that I mean anything you can't measure. I don't want you to pick an object or artifact - then proclaim "well, we don't know how it happened or who made it, so smart aliens must be the answer" because that's exactly what creationists do with God. It isn't *proof* of anything. You're inserting whatever you want in place of the actual explanation. Like the pyramids example that was used.

So what kind of evidence do you have to support these ideas?


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## Wild (May 17, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I want you to go through the documentaries or video clips you would send me, pick out the bits that you think are either undeniable proof or scientific proof or some kind of hard evidence to support the idea that an intelligent alien species has visited this planet, or any of the other claims you've been making.


There is no entirely accurate evidence, or it would be well known fact, the point is there is no sure evidence to disprove the theory. There are however many questions to ask about the interest in Unidentified Flying Objects for many recorded peoples in history. I understand that the Philly has researched this area far more than I, but I will leave a link or two per post from now on. I'll also reply in more detail later. Would it be worth relating the mystery of Rods to this debate?

Padawan, despite your thoughts on aliens visiting our ancestors, do you believe that aliens, or at least UFOs are sometimes present in the modern day. Ever increasing encounters and mass sightings surely can't be denied, thousands or even millions can't be sharing the same over-active imagination that the authorities put it down to. Not to mention the many sightings which go unreported. Since the 2nd World War, sightings have risen massively and many see it as a warning and it's true that many of our problems are rising too (surprisingly the late 60s/early 70s had a drop in reports compared to what was expected).

Famous but remaining a mystery is the SETI message, a random signal once appearing, then never heard from again which nobody yet has explained:


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## Padawanbater2 (May 17, 2010)

Wild said:


> There is no entirely accurate evidence, or it would be well known fact, the point is there is no sure evidence to disprove the theory. There are however many questions to ask about the interest in Unidentified Flying Objects for many recorded peoples in history. I understand that the Philly has researched this area far more than I, but I will leave a link or two per post from now on. I'll also reply in more detail later. Would it be worth relating the mystery of Rods to this debate?
> 
> Padawan, despite your thoughts on aliens visiting our ancestors, do you believe that aliens, or at least UFOs are sometimes present in the modern day. Ever increasing encounters and mass sightings surely can't be denied, thousands or even millions can't be sharing the same over-active imagination that the authorities put it down to. Not to mention the many sightings which go unreported. Since the 2nd World War, sightings have risen massively and many see it as a warning and it's true that many of our problems are rising too (surprisingly the late 60s/early 70s had a drop in reports compared to what was expected).
> 
> ...


OK, so why not so interested in the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot? There's no evidence to *disprove* those theories either, right?

*WE DO NOT DETERMINE REALITY BY WHAT IS NOT THERE, WE DETERMINE REALITY BY WHAT IS THERE.

*That is the problem. There's nothing, not a single thing, one piece of tangible, measurable data or observations. Nothing to check. The *ONLY THING* we have are eyewitness accounts of something someone saw one time and things that have yet to be explained (which doesn't mean it's automatically alien in nature). 

People think they see things all the time. Eyewitness accounts, even if they're in the thousands, are not substantial evidence to support the idea that intelligent life has/is visited/visiting the planet Earth. You jump from "I saw a UFO!" to "it was aliens!" - how do you know a UFO flying in our atmosphere would be an alien species from some other planet? How do you know it didn't come from the Earth? These are things you *don't know*, but your brain automatically attaches explanations to, because it's programmed to. 

The SETI signal could be literally *anything*, again, not substantial evidence to support alien life.

I of course believe aliens exist, but my position is that they have never visited the Earth because I haven't seen enough evidence to suggest that they have.


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## LightningMcGreen (May 17, 2010)

I couldn't say either way whether they have or haven't been here, but i would think that if aliens had the technology to travel through hyperspace, master and harness gravity and anti-matter, then they could probably walk/fly/stand/sit right next to us and we wouldnt have a clue, i.e. some sort of cloaking technology. I watched a youtube video about alla this kinda stuff n i came across one that said there was a college here in the US of A that had mastered PARTIAL invisibility on some random object by just bending the light and making it go around the object. Plus the NASA Tether incident was somethin pretty wild, at least i thought so lol and when your talkin of "other beings" with which would pretty much be God-like capabilities, you have to think outside the box when it comes to wondering why we cant see them or dont know of their existence...cuz they have some unheard of technology, unheard of understandings of science, etc etc


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## Padawanbater2 (May 17, 2010)

Yes but why would they come here just to crash land and be captured? Or why wouldn't they make their existence known? Why wouldn't they just kill us all and be done with it if that were their intentions? It seems like if they are here, our governments are somehow covering up their existence - not a likely possibility as I explained earlier, or they don't want to be known - now what's the answer for that question? Why would they come and not make themselves known? What's their purpose? The point? Why would they travel such great distances for essentially nothing?


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## LightningMcGreen (May 17, 2010)

who knos what goes on in the depths of space, for what reasons...i mean, you've mastered time travel, what the hell else you gunna do? LOL i mean ina sort-of serious sense, what more could one need to achieve? ina possible INFINITE, never ending uni (or multi) verse, its unlikely someone would find it rational to try n take it ALL over, hence no real need for war. You wouldn't need shit! just to sit back and explore everything else that is out there, take a few notes, and keep on ridin lol just like a zoo. is that makin any sense, or am i just too hi haha


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## Padawanbater2 (May 17, 2010)

There has to be a reason. Take us for example. Would we travel all the way across space just to go? Once we got there, discovered another species (especially if it was "intelligent" or could communicate somehow) would we not try to initiate contact? Even if it's some sort of space warp kind of thing where they can arrive here instantly, they wouldn't come and just fly around in our atmosphere for nothing, right? Stay just in sight, but right out of view? It just doesn't make any sense to me. I've seen the tether incident too, and agree it's pretty weird footage that definitely needs some explaining, along with countless other clips right out of NASA, but to jump to the conclusion that it's aliens from another planet is not rational. There is nothing to support it. I'm interested in all the data and material evidence that points to there being aliens visiting Earth, but it's always admissible and doesn't hold up to the science, and eyewitness accounts just aren't enough proof.


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## LightningMcGreen (May 17, 2010)

Totally agree with you on the eyewitness accounts. You got every backwoods hillbilly tellin tall tales of gettin upducted or uploadin their youtube would-be "close encounter videos". It purges what might be true stories all over. But really, when thinkin outside the box, the question isnt "why?" its more "why not?". again, when you're able to do anything you want, what else is there to do? As for us, sure, theres so many questions about space, that really thats the only way we would be able to start! Shove off, take some supplies, hope you come back n tell us what ya found when ya do! Then, we'll study THAT shit down here, while we send ya off again to see what ELSE you can find. When the possibilites are limitless, there is only infinite knowledge to be gained


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## Rainshinee (May 17, 2010)

skunkushybrid said:


> The type that come from other planets.
> 
> Anyone believe they have landed on Earth? Not that they don't exist as I believe they do, the odds of them not are too great. Actually believe though that they have landed on Earth? Or that they kidnap people for experiments?


I do believe very much in life on other planets. I do believe that they have landed on earth, and that the government does cover things like that up. I don't exactly think that they look like the Hollywood alien, they could have any sort of physical appearance. I would die a sad person without some sort of proof of aliens in my lifetime.


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## gumball (May 17, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> *WE DO NOT DETERMINE REALITY BY WHAT IS NOT THERE, WE DETERMINE REALITY BY WHAT IS THERE.
> 
> *


*

and this is why us "earthlings" are so narrow minded. just because we dont see it doesnt mean that it isnt there...*


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## rzza (May 17, 2010)

wow my head hurts. and i still dont know if i believe or not. ugh


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## gumball (May 17, 2010)

oh, and i try to be open minded to both sides of the argument. there is as much to prove as there to disprove this in most cases. but it sucks when I really want to beleive something, then I turn into my own devils advocate and make myself understand the other side of the scenario!! i like threads like this!!


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## Muppets On Drugs (May 17, 2010)

> could have the capacity to visit our world. I'm sure they're curious about us like we're curious about the dinosaurs, plus we're much more interesting because we have shit to blow things up and maybe cause a catastrophe in the universe.


that is epic lol.


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## Dropastone (May 17, 2010)

Nice thread, I did read a few pages but I don't have the time to read through 69 pages. Anyway this may have been covered before but I have a few thoughts I would like to share.

You all want to really know the truth. You need to watch ancient aliens on the history channel. They've come out with all new episodes. Episode 5 airs Tuesday at 8PM. Each episode is 2 hours long with tons of information that will make you believe. Let me tell you this is a must watch series. If you don't believe, you will believe or you will at least sway opinion that we are not the only life form in the universe. 

Feeble minds have feeble thoughts. Imagine if you will, a race of intelligent beings on another world within our own galaxy or even in another galaxy. What if these aliens are were around for a billion years before we ever existed. Just imagine what their technological capabilities could be. Ohh that's right you couldn't Imagine that because most peoples minds are so feeble that they could never imagine it possible to travel through space and time to visit other worlds.

Just because we can't do it (yet). Doesn't mean other advanced alien civilizations can't.

Set your DVR and watch the series on history channel, you won't regret it. 

Peace


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## Padawanbater2 (May 17, 2010)

gumball said:


> and this is why us "earthlings" are so narrow minded. just because we dont see it doesnt mean that it isnt there...


Not what I said at all. Observations are not limited to _sight_. 

All you guys who believe aliens have visited Earth are saying you believe it because of all the evidence.

I'm saying - SHOW ME SOME! 

What is the most convincing piece of evidence to you that makes you believe this theory? Share it with me.


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## Dropastone (May 17, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Not what I said at all. Observations are not limited to _sight_.
> 
> All you guys who believe aliens have visited Earth are saying you believe it because of all the evidence.
> 
> ...


I've been a firm believer in extraterrestrials for a very long time now. The best convincing piece of evidence that I can provide to you, is to watch the show I mentioned in my previous post. It's very enlightening.

You can also find it on youtube.

Also can you give me the most convincing piece of evidence that says they haven't?

I'm not here to bash your beliefs, you can believe what ever you want and I'm fine with that. I'm just trying to spread the word.

Peace.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 17, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> Also can you give me the most convincing piece of evidence that says they haven't?


Just by asking this question it shows that you don't understand the context of proof in our discussion. 

What's to keep people from asking "prove to me Saturn isn't made of cheese" - why don't we take statements like that seriously? Because there is *no proof to SUPPORT the idea* that Saturn is in fact made of cheese. Similarly, there is *no proof to SUPPORT the idea *that aliens have made contact with humans, or they've landed, or they've been captured, etc. The videos on youtube aren't proof. We need peer reviewed scientific studies done. Bodies to dissect. Things to analyze. Stuff to measure.. 

We could not keep an alien race that had the ability to reach our planet covered up if they didn't want to be. There's not a valid reason - that I've heard - that would explain why they would come all the way here and not make themselves known. What's the reason?


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## Dropastone (May 17, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Just by asking this question it shows that you don't understand the context of proof in our discussion.
> 
> What's to keep people from asking "prove to me Saturn isn't made of cheese" - why don't we take statements like that seriously? Because there is *no proof to SUPPORT the idea* that Saturn is in fact made of cheese. Similarly, there is *no proof to SUPPORT the idea *that aliens have made contact with humans, or they've landed, or they've been captured, etc. The videos on youtube aren't proof. We need peer reviewed scientific studies done. Bodies to dissect. Things to analyze. Stuff to measure..
> 
> We could not keep an alien race that had the ability to reach our planet covered up if they didn't want to be. There's not a valid reason - that I've heard - that would explain why they would come all the way here and not make themselves known. What's the reason?


What is clear to me is that you that you don't know the meaning of proof. I have given it to you twice now and there are quite a few scientists speaking on the subject I present to you. When you have actually watched the info that I have clearly given to you, All five episodes, get back to me and we will have an intelligent conversation. The only proof you have given to me so far is utter nonsense. Come on man, Saturn made of cheese? There is no need to provide proof because we all know that is not the case. This is your argument, please. you will have to do better than that.

Listen man. I'm not trying to start an argument with you but it seems this is all your looking for.

Peace.


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## lpoolfc08 (May 18, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> Nice thread, I did read a few pages but I don't have the time to read through 69 pages. Anyway this may have been covered before but I have a few thoughts I would like to share.
> 
> You all want to really know the truth. You need to watch ancient aliens on the history channel. They've come out with all new episodes. Episode 5 airs Tuesday at 8PM. Each episode is 2 hours long with tons of information that will make you believe. Let me tell you this is a must watch series. If you don't believe, you will believe or you will at least sway opinion that we are not the only life form in the universe.
> 
> ...


Could you post the link to the episodes on youtude plz ?


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## Dropastone (May 18, 2010)

The first episode was aired in March of 2009 The episode was titled Chariots, Gods & Beyond. The second episode was aired on 4/20/2010 and covers everything in episode 1 but in better detail. Each episode contains 9 to 10 video's

Enjoy.

The 1st Episode: Chariots, Gods & Beyond can be found here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAQu62ctwcA&feature=PlayList&p=94FFE925C365432C&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1

The 2nd Episode: The evidence: can be found here. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKjUfoIoPas&feature=PlayList&p=4825B4ECAAF5EE23&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=34

The 3rd Episode: The Visitors can be found here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOIrGoxLQaM&feature=PlayList&p=4825B4ECAAF5EE23&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=46

The 4th Episode: The mission can be found here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVesaxxfmaY&feature=PlayList&p=95922DCD552A0260&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=9

The 5th episode: Close Encounters airs tonight on the History channel at 8 PM

Peace.


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## Wild (May 18, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> OK, so why not so interested in the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot?
> 
> People think they see things all the time. Eyewitness accounts, even if they're in the thousands, are not substantial evidence to support the idea that intelligent life has/is visited/visiting the planet Earth. You jump from "I saw a UFO!" to "it was aliens!" - how do you know a UFO flying in our atmosphere would be an alien species from some other planet? How do you know it didn't come from the Earth? These are things you *don't know*, but your brain automatically attaches explanations to, because it's programmed to.


People put the LN Monster down to being an ancient old Plesiosaur and Bigfoot as a surviving Sivapithicus or Giganteopithicus (please mind my spelling), but these are the only ideas on how these fables could be proved. To me, this is very highly improbable, as most paranormal and mysterious strories are.

When I say UFO I am talking of Unidentified "Flying" Objects, not the stereotypical relation to aliens. I agree some or (perhaps) all are not really there or have an explanation, but when hundreds or thousands see the same craft-like object hovering gradually over a city, it does raise certain questions of what exactly is causing that convincing image in the sky.



LightningMcGreen said:


> they could probably walk/fly/stand/sit right next to us and we wouldnt have a clue, i.e. some sort of cloaking technology.
> Plus the NASA Tether incident was somethin pretty wild, at least i thought so lol and when your talkin of "other beings" with which would pretty much be God-like capabilities, you have to think outside the box when it comes to wondering why we cant see them or dont know of their existence...cuz they have some unheard of technology, unheard of understandings of science, etc etc


The mind only recieves images of what it wants to see and sees what it understands. As for God-like capabilities, to our ancestors, some technology we can produce today would astound them, if 'ancient astronauts' had known how to generate electricity or anything they may have been taken as higher forms of life.



Padawanbater2 said:


> Yes but why would they come here just to crash land and be captured? Why would they come and not make themselves known?


They've crashed and been captured? I've always been skeptical about the whole Roswell story and any others similar. Infact I don't read into any of the constant conspiracies relating to "The Government", partly because it's always about the American government and partly because I don't believe (if the hypothetical aliens did visit) that they'd be THAT much better equipped to deal with the situation than your average elderly residence home. 

Think outside the box as Lightning said. We may be an experiment of theirs like bacteria is for us (including the scale of size and time). We may be their offspring or their entertainment. Perhaps they have a grand, unimaginable, divine plan, perhaps waiting till we're advanced enough to join with them. Maybe they keep an eye over us to make sure we will not take war to them (after all, the MOD orders that all UFOs are to be shot down) or bomb one another again. Maybe they themselves are what we percieve as ghosts! It's possible that we're a part of their race, left here and they protect us. I don't know but if intelligent aliens visiting Earth are real, their reasons and intentions are likely far beyond our understanding. I can only guess the most ridiculous scenarios.



Padawanbater2 said:


> Or why wouldn't they make their existence known?


So they don't disturb our natural course, just as we shouldn't really be disturbing all other life around us. If they made contact, the world would likely devote themselves, altering which fields we spend money in and how we go about our daily lives, it would probably send the world into mass hysteria. Perhaps discovering their existence is the answer to the ultimate question, maybe we're not yet worthy for them, or we could corrupt their health due to differences in the immune system.



Padawanbater2 said:


> Why wouldn't they just kill us all and be done with it if that were their intentions?


Why would they want to? Maybe they're already exploiting our planets resources without us even noticing. It may be the case that the visitors have no understanding of or no means of violence, or no needs for dominance (like the competitive, power hungry personalities our ape-like ancestors left us). A different planet would create very different life (for example - If evolution on Earth went back to the start now, there's a strong chance that Homo Sapiens would never re-appear). 



Padawanbater2 said:


> What's their purpose? The point? Why would they travel such great distances for essentially nothing?


To Learn! The point written into a sentient species brain is to adventure and understand. It is likely that they would study us, we would if we came across a primitive intelligent species here or anywhere. Why do we travel such long distances to research nature for what many (the more unfortunate) people in this modern civilized world consider pointless? Speaking comparitivly, a round the world boat trip or plane flight using the height of our technology would be the same scale journey as their vehicular travel for their superior technology.

I'm talking entirely hypotheticaly here, I'm not claiming any proof that extra-terrestrial life has visited here before, nor do I 100% believe it possible, however I feel there is some compelling coincidences which would fit in with the theory, wether it's anywhere near reality is a matter of time and discovery. If people just followed what is taken as definate truth, we would still be supressed by religion and outlawed Cannabis (which come to think of it is rather alien, but let's not get into that). It takes somebody to think outside of the box to discover a future fact.


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## Dropastone (May 18, 2010)

@ wild. I couldn't have said better myself. +rep


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## Padawanbater2 (May 18, 2010)

Dude, go read my posts in this thread. As I told the other guy, a scientist is not interested in "maybe" or "what if" ideas. They are only interested in the data that is available to test and measure. The evidence and proof that can be calculated and analyzed. What do you have to support anything you just said? 

"Think outside the box" is not proof or evidence of anything, it's just speculation. We can sit here and speculate on things all day long and guess where it'll get us at the end of the day... the same exact spot we're in right now. That's why I keep mentioning how it's pointless to bring these things up because without anything at all to support them, that's all they are, that's what they remain, just ideas.


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## Hazy Head (May 18, 2010)

thanks for the links dropastone


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## lpoolfc08 (May 18, 2010)

@DPS Thanks bro.

Imo we are all a drop in the ocean.

When we die we become the ocean.


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## Dropastone (May 18, 2010)

Hazy Head said:


> thanks for the links dropastone





lpoolfc08 said:


> @DPS Thanks bro.
> 
> Imo we are all a drop in the ocean.
> 
> When we die we become the ocean.


Anytime fellas.

Peace.


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## Wild (May 18, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What do you have to support anything you just said?
> 
> "Think outside the box" is not proof or evidence of anything, it's just speculation. We can sit here and speculate on things all day long and guess where it'll get us at the end of the day... the same exact spot we're in right now. That's why I keep mentioning how it's pointless to bring these things up because without anything at all to support them, that's all they are, that's what they remain, just ideas.





Wild said:


> I'm talking entirely hypotheticaly here, I'm not claiming any proof that extra-terrestrial life has visited here before, nor do I 100% believe it possible, however I feel there is some compelling coincidences which would fit in with the theory, wether it's anywhere near reality is a matter of time and discovery. If people just followed what is taken as definate truth, we would still be supressed by religion. It takes somebody to think outside of the box to discover a future fact.


Well there's my disclaimer. At no point have I claimed that anything iv'e said so far is pure fact, I haven't even said it's likely, but it is technically possible (no matter how miniscule a chance you think it). As for thinking out of the ordinary model, it was, is and will always be vital to the progression of truth and science. Had Greek philosophers not "sat and speculated all day long", we would have had far less advances in the whole field of physics, had Mendelev not dreamt of his elemental ideas, we would not have the Periodic Table, without the hopeless attempts of Astrology and Alchemy, we would be further behind in Astronomy and Chemistry, etc etc etc. It is speculation that gives rise to fact, for only from an initial, radical idea can it's subject be tested and discovered/understood or rendered obsolete.

I understand you dismiss this theory due to a lack of evidence, however you are yet to show any significant evidence to prove the thought wrong. For as long as no man alive has strong, indisputeable evidence for either side, the debate will continue, but the more alternative argument will always see less publicity, time and support.



Dropastone said:


> @ wild. I couldn't have said better myself. +rep


Cheers. Thanks for linking the videos, I will watch them in the morning.


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## Dropastone (May 18, 2010)

Anytime Wild. I'm just trying to spread the truth to unbelievers.

Peace.


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## dtRepeat (May 22, 2010)

Widow Maker said:


> I kid around a lot but I am serious about this.
> 
> I have seen ufos before. I was 15 and I still remember it like it was today. I wasnt on any drugs fyi. I was looking in the sky and happened to notice two lights going towards each other. I thought they were airplanes getting ready to crash. Well the two lights hit each other and made one light. The light turned red and got about 3x bigger. Then it went back down to the original size and turned blue and got bigger again. Then the light split into 3 small white lights in a straight horizotal line. They sat there for about 2 seconds and then they all shot different directions. It was fucking weird. I didnt tell anyone about it for like a year. It really got me thinking about how small we really are.
> 
> I have seen ghost and a real psychic too. I will get to the religion thread but I dont have enough time to post that yet.


yeah, i agree. it really opens your eyes to how large the universe and how tiny we are in it. just like the ending to the second men in black movie lol

i once asked my 8th grade science teacher weather in his opinion, did he believe in aliens and other beings outside out solar system, and he explained that "our solar system is comprised of large baulders and planets. it reaches thousands of mils long. looking out past our own solar system, we can see there are thousands of more solar systems beyond us, some as large or larger than ours. the idea that we are the only intelligent lifeform in all these systems combined is impossible." 

i smiled when i heard and concidered this. its quite a great thought.


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## Evil Buddies (Jun 23, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfFjKzP3rHg&feature=related our origins 

underground alien bases 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHhRsTyw1dY&feature=related

look at this with an open mind as its possible its true dont let them pull the wool over u eyes


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## Evil Buddies (Jun 23, 2010)

have any of u seen the phil schnieder lectures on youtube just type his name and u will see he actually claims to have killed two grey aliens


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## Philly_Buddah (Jun 23, 2010)

Evil Buddies said:


> have any of u seen the phil schnieder lectures on youtube just type his name and u will see he actually claims to have killed two grey aliens


I read up on that years ago and as far as I can tell it has never been disproven.

He was on the run for a long time but they finally got him and he was killed by the government.


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## Dropastone (Jun 23, 2010)

Yeah that was pretty interesting, I watched all 7 videos of his lecture and it definitely makes you think, WTF.


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## TrippyReefer (Jun 23, 2010)

Are Christians automatically inclined to think we are the only intelligent life in the universe?
Btw, you got one trippy ass avatar dropastone


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## Philly_Buddah (Jun 23, 2010)

Here is some evidence which pretty much proves there was at least something more going on with what Phil Schneider was talking about.

As I said, he died in 1996. The "official" statement was that it was a suicide, but all things point to him being murdered, and it being planned, heres some notes I found about it which are very interesting:
"_1. There was no suicide note. 

2. Philip always told his friends and relatives, that if he ever "committed suicide" you would know that he had been murdered. 

3. From a number of sources, including his taped lectures (video and audio), and statements to his friends, and the borrowing of a 9mm gun, Philip felt that he and his family were being threatened and were in danger because of his lectures. 

4. All of his lecture materials, alien metals, higher math books, photographs of UFO's coming out of the Operation Crossroad A-Bomb, notes for his book on the alien agenda, were missing. (Everything else in the apartment was still there, including gold coins, wallet with hundreds of dollars, jewelry, mineral 
specimens, etc.) 

5. No coroner ever came out to his apartment after his body was found (against Oregon Law) - and a police investigation never took under consideration that items were missing from his apartment - it was considered a suicide, plain and simple. 

6. The medical examiner took blood and urine samples at the autopsy but REFUSED to analyze them, saying that the county would not "waste their money on a suicide". Although I was assured that the samples would be kept for 12 months, when I asked for these samples to be sent to an independent lab 11 months later they were "missing" and presumed "destroyed". 

7. Philip had missing fingers on his left hand, and limited motion in his shoulders. I believe that it was physically impossible for Philip to have held the rubber hose in his left hand with missing fingers and then wrap the hose three times with shoulders that had limited motion. In order to end up where his body was, he had to sit on the edge of his bed, wrap the hose around his neck, slowly and painfully strangle to death, and fallen head first into a wheel chair. 

8. Philip was an expert in chemicals and his own medical needs. He had multiple pills at hand that could have ended his life quickly and painlessly. He also had a 9mm gun that he had borrowed to protect himself. Why strangle himself in such an unusual manner? 

9. Philip was very religious, and did not believe in suicide. He had intense chronic pain all of the time I knew him. At the time of his death, he was on disability, had a housekeeper, and had cancer. The operation to help him with his back pain did not alleviate the pain and he had brittle bone syndrome (osteoperosis). He struggled every day, not to die, but to live. 

9. Philip was very religious, and did not believe in suicide. He had intense chronic pain all of the time I knew him. At the time of his death, he was on disability, had a housekeeper, and had cancer. The operation to help him with his back pain did not alleviate the pain and he had brittle bone syndrome (osteoperosis). He struggled every day, not to die, but to live. 

11. Philip was seen with an "unknown blonde haired woman" for several months before his death. Several times this same individual was seen or talked about and her mysterious presence only leads one to wonder if she had anything to do with his "suicide". 

12. Several people with psychic abilities have indicated that Philip did not commit suicide, but was murdered (some say by 5 people: 4 men and 1 woman, 4 directly and one by taking out a "contract"."

_Its incredibly obvious that he was murdered and there was a lot of truth to what he was saying.


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## Smallsn (Jul 19, 2010)

My physic teacher told the class he believes in aliens. He also said that he doubt that they want to visit us.  Considering that we are fighting against ourselves!
I once saw a red light moving in the dark night sky once before. With my mates punching cones. Sometimes at night if i look into the sky i sometimes see one little light moving slowly in one direction. If see more if u look real careful.
I remember there this black comedian talking about aliens. He was acting as he was a alien with another alien mate. The alien mate suggested that they should come visit earth. The other aliens said WTF are you thinking! They are killing themselves over black and white, we are purple what the fuck do you think they do to us! HAHAHAHA


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## mindphuk (Jul 19, 2010)

Wild said:


> I understand you dismiss this theory due to a lack of evidence, however* you are yet to show any significant evidence to prove the thought wrong.* For as long as no man alive has strong, indisputeable evidence for either side, the debate will continue, but the more alternative argument will always see less publicity, time and support.


 It is hoped that people can see the fallacy in this thought process. Unfortunately, as evidenced by this forum, it is alive and well. 



> "A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"
> Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!
> "Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle -- but no dragon.
> 
> ...


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## scorpio9 (Aug 2, 2010)

I believe in Aliens, always have, to think there are no other intelligent beings out there somewhere is somewhat mad, weather they have actually vivsted us or not is a different matter, although I believe they have and thought ' WTF, lets get outta here ' as all we do as a species, is fight, go to war, and suck this planet dry, dam shame


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## Wild (Aug 12, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> It is hoped that people can see the fallacy in this thought process. Unfortunately, as evidenced by this forum, it is alive and well.


Yes, I admit wording it as " you are yet to show any evidence " was foolish. The point I was trying to make was that just because there is a lack of evidence at the time does not mean the idea should be wiped from possibility for good, because there is no evidence disproving the idea. Said idea should simply be delayed and assumed as possible (don't know) with no definate answer for or against.


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## Dropastone (Oct 27, 2010)

What's up everybody? Seems this thread was abducted by some aliens, so lets see if we can bring it back home. *I want to believe*, but unfortunately there are still a lot of doubters out there who don't.

Heads up everybody, a new season of Ancient Aliens premiers on the Discovery Channel this Thursday @ 10pm. Also there are some season one episodes on during the day leading up to the new season, so you might want to set your DVR.

Peace.


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## secretweapon (Oct 27, 2010)

I hope earth find old alien technology that brings us up to speed with the rest of our galaxy, like in mass effect (its a video game, lol)


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2010)

[youtube]1rtqUy34Tjk[/youtube]

Check this out! Imagine if alien contact was like this..


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## Dropastone (Oct 28, 2010)

Yeah that looks pretty cool. I'll definitely be checking that one out.


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## KindGrower (Oct 28, 2010)

The new ancient aliens was bad ass. That Gate of the Gods stuff they talked about that was in Peru was pretty crazy. Also all that stuff about vortex and energy lines was pretty cool. I think they were here along time ago but maybe they try not to be so obvious these days because of hardcore religion (not that I have anything against that I consider myself spiritual but perhaps not so religious, more of a non denominational anti organized religion perspective) and also the fact that alot of people would basically shit them selves if they really found out we were not the only thing floating around in this cosmic cluster fuck. (Don't judge me I'm drunk and stoned off my ass lol) Peace out.


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## thewinghunter (Oct 28, 2010)

theres more galaxies out there than all the grains of sand on earth... u think there no life on those planets that have been around for billions of years? yer crazy not to believe.


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## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Oct 28, 2010)

George Carlin said it best- *If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.*


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## Dropastone (Oct 28, 2010)

Yeah I haven't had a chance to watch it yet but I do have it recorded. I'll be watching it first thing in the morning with a cup of coffee and fat bowl.


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## thewinghunter (Oct 28, 2010)

hey dropa stone... check out the SUmerian culture... on the radio program Coast to Coast AM, basically everyone stole their creation myths from them... and the best part is... they dont dilly dally and make up bullshit they say a race of ppl came from space and genetically modifed them and taught them stuff... plain and simple... what religious book says that? and BTW... they knew all the planets existed and way more about the solar system and galaxies than we did just a 100 yrs ago... so hmmmm


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## thewinghunter (Oct 28, 2010)

MacGuyver4.2.0 said:


> George Carlin said it best- *&#8220;If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little&#8221;.*


hahah yes
hes a genius
also another quote that i think is just crazy funny

"The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...asshole."


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## Dropastone (Oct 28, 2010)

thewinghunter said:


> hey dropa stone... check out the SUmerian culture... on the radio program Coast to Coast AM, basically everyone stole their creation myths from them... and the best part is... they dont dilly dally and make up bullshit they say a race of ppl came from space and genetically modifed them and taught them stuff... plain and simple... what religious book says that? and BTW... they knew all the planets existed and way more about the solar system and galaxies than we did just a 100 yrs ago... so hmmmm


What's up man, yeah I'm familiar with the Sumerians and their culture. I used to have an online subscription to coast to coast and I listened to that show all the time years ago. Unfortunately we don't have any radio stations around here that carry coast to coast. So if I wanna listen I have to have a subscription. 

Peace.


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## photogenic (Oct 30, 2010)

I am an alien. Although none of you will beleive it, and to explain it would be difficult, i did not originate on this planet, and to make a long story short my mind is imprisoned on this earth in a human body. I will be here until the universe dies and this planet collapses into dust.


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## photogenic (Oct 30, 2010)

Rush, "Xanadu"

"To seek the sacred river Alph
To walk the caves of ice
To break my fast on honey dew
And drink the milk of paradise...."

I had heard the whispered tales
Of immortality
The deepest mystery
From an ancient book. I took a clue
I scaled the frozen mountain tops
Of eastern lands unknown
Time and Man alone
Searching for the lost--Xanadu
Xanadu--To stand within the Pleasure Dome

Decreed by Kubla Khan
To taste anew the fruits of life
The last immortal man
To find the sacred river Alph
To walk the caves of ice
Oh, I will dine on honeydew
And drink the milk of Paradise

A thousand years have come and gone
But Time has passed me by
Stars stopped in the sky
Frozen in the everlasting view
Waiting for the world to end
Weary of the night
Praying for the light
Prison of the lost--Xanadu
Xanadu--held within the Pleasure Dome

Decreed by Kubla Khan
To taste my bitter triumph
As a mad immortal man
Nevermore shall I return
Escape these caves of ice
For I have dined on honeydew
And drink the milk of Paradise


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## Dropastone (Oct 30, 2010)

Well at least you have good taste in music.


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## photogenic (Oct 30, 2010)

[video=youtube;_v4MSDdstNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v4MSDdstNI[/video]


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 7, 2010)

There is no arguement for creation by God. All of the stories in all of the religious books around the world are just that, stories, used to produce strong morals and values. Obviously religion is not working, so why not try something else? 

-As I said before, I believe that the main point that should dismiss all religious beliefs is the fact that there are so many religions out there. There's gotta be at least 20 religions if not much more with over a million followers, each one saying that their God is the real one and if you don't worship him that you go to hell (How selfish can you be?!). JUST BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT FROM DAY ONE. If you were taught the little mermaid instead do you think you would feel any different? NOO!!! Everything that you percieve is affected by your perception of reality.


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## crackerboy (Nov 7, 2010)

SOGfarmer said:


> There is no arguement for creation by God. All of the stories in all of the religious books around the world are just that, stories, used to produce strong morals and values. Obviously religion is not working, so why not try something else?
> 
> -As I said before, I believe that the main point that should dismiss all religious beliefs is the fact that there are so many religions out there. There's gotta be at least 20 religions if not much more with over a million followers, each one saying that their God is the real one and if you don't worship him that you go to hell (How selfish can you be?!). JUST BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT FROM DAY ONE. If you were taught the little mermaid instead do you think you would feel any different? NOO!!! Everything that you percieve is affected by your perception of reality.



This is where you are wrong. I was never taught anything about religion of any kind as a child. As a matter of fact I only heard criticism of religion. But here I am now a God loving Christian. I have witnessed many grown men that had previously denied the existence of God, fall to their knees and ask Gods forgiveness. The fact that there is so many religions is due to the Devil being very clever. He continuously tries to find ways to lead us astray. He reveals half truths and gives just enough insight into certain subject to make people follow them.


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## mindphuk (Nov 7, 2010)

crackerboy said:


> This is where you are wrong. I was never taught anything about religion of any kind as a child. As a matter of fact I only heard criticism of religion. But here I am now a God loving Christian. I have witnessed many grown men that had previously denied the existence of God, fall to their knees and ask Gods forgiveness. The fact that there is so many religions is due to the Devil being very clever. He continuously tries to find ways to lead us astray. He reveals half truths and gives just enough insight into certain subject to make people follow them.


 So that's your evidence, that grown men that previously didn't believe in a god changed their mind? Wow, compelling. <yawn>

BTW, when you were a child not learning about religion, did anyone happen to try to teach you logic and reason?


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## beardo (Nov 7, 2010)

theirs aliens and humans are in contact with them


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## Tyrannabudz (Nov 9, 2010)

Aliens will be the guise for an upcoming false flag attack.


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## Tyrannabudz (Nov 9, 2010)

What you think are aliens are actually hyper dimensional beings. They are all around. They are outside of our visual spectrum. Some of the malevolent beings feed off of negative human emotion. Historically thet are what could be considered demons.


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## guy incognito (Nov 9, 2010)

medicinaluseonly said:


> Anyone that doesn't believe in life on other planets, is missing quite a few brain cells. Even if you believe that life started in tidepools and we crawled out of the swamps and eventually walked on two legs *(why are there still apes on this planet if we descended from them)*, you would almost have to agree that with billions of planets out there, there could be life on them. Now take the fact that the universe is billions of years old, is it not possible that on another planet somewhere in the universe, an intelligent species evolved, or was created some time before our world was habitable, and these beings having millions-billions of years head start on us, could have the capacity to visit our world. I'm sure they're curious about us like we're curious about the dinosaurs, plus we're much more interesting because we have shit to blow things up and maybe cause a catastrophe in the universe. If you don't believe in extra-terrestials, you must be brain dead. Of course the powers that be, don't want you believing in such things, how dare we think there might be some being more intelligent than our leaders. Nope I've never seen one, although to be honest, on a two year sabbatical in the wilderness of Arizona, I saw quite a few U.F.O.s, remember what a UFO is: an unidentified flying object, I saw a few that did things that no known terrestial object could achieve.


Why would the emergence of a new species mean the previous one no longer exists? I mean by this logic you should only have "Life: the final version". Sounds like you are the one missing a few brain cells.

And the limitation of visiting across the universe isn't a matter of technology. It's more fundamental than that, we are restricted by the laws of nature. 

Also the energy required for interstellar travel makes it totally illogical that anyone would ever use it as a resource gathering mission. The time and energy required are staggering. It will never ever happen. We will most likely never visit another star, and im 100% certain we will never visit another star that has intelligent life. Nor will they visit us.


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## Dropastone (Nov 9, 2010)

Tyrannabudz said:


> What you think are aliens are actually hyper dimensional beings. They are all around. They are outside of our visual spectrum. Some of the malevolent beings feed off of negative human emotion. Historically thet are what could be considered demons.


I've often thought that they could possibly be amongst us but on a different plain. Now this is just a theory of mine and I'm not particularly sold on the idea it's just an Idea. What if they could be with us but say only one second or even less in our past tense. They would be here but we would never see them. Ever watched these ghost hunter shows where there investigating ghosts. What if they are actually the aliens they investigate.

Just some random thoughts of an old stoner.


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## Dropastone (Nov 9, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> Why would the emergence of a new species mean the previous one no longer exists? I mean by this logic you should only have "Life: the final version". Sounds like you are the one missing a few brain cells.
> 
> And the limitation of visiting across the universe isn't a matter of technology. It's more fundamental than that, we are restricted by the laws of nature.
> 
> Also the energy required for interstellar travel makes it totally illogical that anyone would ever use it as a resource gathering mission. The time and energy required are staggering. It will never ever happen. We will most likely never visit another star, and im 100% certain we will never visit another star that has intelligent life. Nor will they visit us.


An advance civilization a billion years ahead of us could very well have figured that out already. They also may have figured out how to travel through worm holes, bend space and time to there advantage. Maybe there is intelligent life out there that has a space station orbiting a sun that provides enough power to make that kind of stuff happen. That's what kills me about our race, some just can't come to the realization that this could be possible. Just because our feeble little minds can't figure it out doesn't mean a more advanced civilization hasn't.


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## guy incognito (Nov 10, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> An advance civilization a billion years ahead of us could very well have figured that out already. They also may have figured out how to travel through worm holes, bend space and time to there advantage. Maybe there is intelligent life out there that has a space station orbiting a sun that provides enough power to make that kind of stuff happen. That's what kills me about our race, some just can't come to the realization that this could be possible. Just because our feeble little minds can't figure it out doesn't mean a more advanced civilization hasn't.


You make it sound as if any feat is possible given enough time and intelligence. My point was the opposite; I don't think any amount of intelligence or time is going to help you overcome the barriers of nature.


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## LightningMcGreen (Nov 10, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> You make it sound as if any feat is possible given enough time and intelligence. My point was the opposite; I don't think any amount of intelligence or time is going to help you overcome the barriers of nature.


Ahh come on guy! Surely you're not doubting your own species? Our technology is at best, only really 300 or so years old, and we've done some amazing things since then!

Take into consideration that man can very easily, manipulate his surroundings and environment. Moving mountains or forests, capture lightning in the lightbulb, wiping out entire cities of people to name a few.

Not to mention the internet, how any amount of information or images you could ever want or ask for, from ANYWHERE in the world, can be found in _*less than a second.

*_We have expanded our lifespan, and have machines that can see the human body inside and out, and can do everything the human body can do, do for the body (life support.) I mean hell, we're CLONING shit for cryin out loud haha...these things would be considered *magic*, say 1000 years ago.

Now take that pace of technology and take it millions if not billions of years further...it doesn't seem to far fetched to me.


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## Dropastone (Nov 10, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> You make it sound as if any feat is possible given enough time and intelligence. My point was the opposite; I don't think any amount of intelligence or time is going to help you overcome the barriers of nature.


So what makes you an authority on the barriers of nature? With enough time, comes more intelligence. With more intelligence, comes the ability to possibly overcome the barriers of nature as we know it in our present time. Do you know everything is to know about space and time? Our top scientists haven't even begun to scratch the surface about the universe around us. So who's to say anybody is an authority on natures barriers. With the given knowledge that our best scientists have, it's just their best guess.

To other advanced civilizations we haven't even left the womb yet. They probably think of us a Neanderthals carrying around big stick. It's time to open your closed mind and think outside the box, instead of living in one.

So take a nice get all and ponder on that for a while.

Oh and have a nice day


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## Dropastone (Nov 10, 2010)

[youtube]WlLN_Jcg1pc[/youtube]


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## Dropastone (Nov 10, 2010)

[youtube]X-RPWhigpQg&feature=iv[/youtube]


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## guy incognito (Nov 10, 2010)

I've smoked plenty of bong rips and pondered a lot of things. The argument that some technology we have today would have seemed "magic" to someone back in the day doesn't really mean that anything we consider "magic" now is equally as likely to happen given time. Yes a lighter would have seemed "magic" to them, but that's because they had NO CLUE about what was fundamentally going on. The science behind a hand held lighter is easy to explain, and fits well within the laws of nature. Nothing magic about it. Traversing galaxies at greater than speed...that's and entirely different story. With the lighter they just had ignorance, just the absence of how that worked or would attribute it to something supernatural. It's not like someone from that era understood what was going on and said a hand held lighter would violate the laws of nature (and actually BASED it on what they DID know). That's the difference, we do have a great deal of understanding about the world today. 

I don't think we will achieve interstellar travel because of the vast distances involved. I think the speed of light has been confirmed more than enough for my liking, I believe it is the cosmic speed limit. The only way it would ever happen is like someone said, with wormholes, or somehow creating a short cut through space via some similar mechanism. Again the limitations of this are staggering and I don't think we will ever achieve it, let alone with ability to move entire space ships through it, let alone with enough accuracy to put us where we want. 

I don't think we will ever achieve teleportation or time travel for the same reasons. It's not because of some lack of understanding about the universe, quite the opposite. We don't have all the answers or understand 100% how the universe works but we have a damn good idea and I don't think it will allow any of these scenarios.


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## guy incognito (Nov 10, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> So what makes you an authority on the barriers of nature? With enough time, comes more intelligence. With more intelligence, comes the ability to possibly overcome the barriers of nature as we know it in our present time. Do you know everything is to know about space and time? Our top scientists haven't even begun to scratch the surface about the universe around us. So who's to say anybody is an authority on natures barriers. With the given knowledge that our best scientists have, it's just their best guess.


NO, no, no, no, no. We have not overcome a single barrier of nature, otherwise it wouldn't have been a barrier. What we have done is understand nature better and work within her limitations. There is a huge difference between not understanding how to achieve something that is theoretically possible, and achieving something that violates the laws of nature. The latter will not be broken with time and intelligence.


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## Dropastone (Nov 10, 2010)

[youtube]fjDIrFNPLIs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/youtube]

[youtube]CRv9cdG82bY&feature=related[/youtube]


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## Dropastone (Nov 10, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> NO, no, no, no, no. We have not overcome a single barrier of nature, otherwise it wouldn't have been a barrier. What we have done is understand nature better and work within her limitations. There is a huge difference between not understanding how to achieve something that is theoretically possible, and achieving something that violates the laws of nature. The latter will not be broken with time and intelligence.


Nobody fully knows or understands the laws of nature. With time and a better understanding of our universe, I firmly believe that we can overcome are so called laws of nature and travel between the stars. So far you have not presented me with a shred of evidence that says otherwise. The only thing that you keep bringing to the table is what we know now. 

With our technology we have today I fully agree with you that interstellar travel is most likely impossible *for us*, I will give you that. But hey, who knows what another 100 or even a thousand years will bring us in terms of intelligence and a better understanding of our universe and it's laws of nature. 

If you don't think there are more highly advanced civilizations out there that could possibly be a billion years ahead of us with a better understanding of our universe than we currently do and the laws that govern it and also have the know how to reach the stars, well then I have to disagree.

For now I guess we will have to agree to disagree with one another because I feel like we are both beating a dead horse here on this subject.

So good day to you sir.


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## guy incognito (Nov 10, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> Nobody fully knows or understands the laws of nature. With time and a better understanding of our universe, I firmly believe that we can overcome are so called laws of nature and travel between the stars. *So far you have not presented me with a shred of evidence that says otherwise.* The only thing that you keep bringing to the table is what we know now.
> 
> With our technology we have today I fully agree with you that interstellar travel is most likely impossible *for us*, I will give you that. But hey, who knows what another 100 or even a thousand years will bring us in terms of intelligence and a better understanding of our universe and it's laws of nature.
> 
> ...


Nobody FULLY understands ALL the laws of nature, but we have a pretty damn good idea of a lot of them. And I will again bring up the speed of light. The speed we came up with is not because we are ignorant of how light travels or how fast, quite the opposite. We have a decent understanding of it, and have verified again and again that it is the cosmic speed limit. This is a bit like being on a dark road, and someone saying we will never be able to travel 10 miles up the road when we can't see 10 feet in front of us. We don't know what lies ahead, and given enough time and provisions we may very well travel 10 miles, or we may not. You have no real evidence one way or the other. But at some point you reach the end of the road, and at that point you won't be saying "maybe we can travel another 10 miles". When someone points out it is the literal end of the road, you can't possibly go on any further and you just say "yeah but you said that 10 miles ago and look how far we've come!"

We aren't at the end of the road, but we can see it and know where it is. Everything I have read about it indicates we will not be able to travel any faster. It fundamentally disagrees with the theories we've tested thousands of times. In fact all evidence points to the fact that we will NOT be able to exceed that speed - ever, not in practice, and not even in theory. 

I have been provided with enough evidence to make me believe that. I highly doubt any new discoveries about how the universe works will negate the massive amount of data we have corroborating this. If we have any hope at all it NOT be ftl travel I am very confident of this. It will be some other manipulation of space. Given our current knowledge this also seems extremely unlikely to me. Not because we aren't smart enough, or haven't had enough time, or don't understand enough about the universe, but because it fundamentally does not work and may not even be possible, especially on the scale we are considering.


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## mindphuk (Nov 10, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> [youtube]fjDIrFNPLIs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/youtube]
> 
> [youtube]CRv9cdG82bY&feature=related[/youtube]


 *Dogon and Sirius*

The Dogon are a people of about 100,000 who dwell in western Africa. According to Robert Temple (_The Sirius Mystery_), the Dogon had contact with some ugly, amphibious* extraterrestrials, the Nommos, some 5,000 years ago. The aliens came here for some unknown reason from a planet orbiting Sirius some 8.6 light years from earth. The alleged visitors from outer space seem to have done little else than give the earthlings some useless astronomical information. ​ One of Temple's main pieces of evidence is the tribe's alleged knowledge of Sirius B, a companion to the star *Sirius*. The Dogon are supposed to have known that Sirius B orbits Sirius and that a complete orbit takes fifty years. One of the pieces of evidence Temple cites is a sand picture made by the Dogon to explain their beliefs. The diagram that Temple presents, however, is not the complete diagram that the Dogon showed to the French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, who were the original sources for Temple's story. Temple has either misinterpreted Dogon beliefs, or distorted Griaule and Dieterlen's claims, to fit his fantastic story. ​Griaule and Dieterlen describe a world renovation ceremony, associated with the bright star Sirius (sigu tolo, "star of Sigui"), called sigui, held by the Dogon every sixty years. According to Griaule and Dieterlen the Dogon also name a companion star, po tolo "Digitaria star" (Sirius B) and describe its density and rotational characteristics. Griaule did not attempt to explain how the Dogon could know this about a star that cannot be seen without telescopes, and he made no claims about the antiquity of this information or of a connection with ancient Egypt.*  ​Temple lists a number of astronomical beliefs held by the Dogon that seem curious. They have a traditional belief in a heliocentric system and in elliptical orbits of astronomical phenomena. They seem to have knowledge of the satellites of Jupiter and rings of Saturn, among other things. Where did they get this knowledge, he asks, if not from extraterrestrial visitors? They don&#8217;t have telescopes or other scientific equipment, so how could they get this knowledge? Temple&#8217;s answer is that they got this information from amphibious aliens from outer space. ​ Afrocentrists, on the other hand, claimed that the Dogon could see Sirius B without the need of a telescope because of their special eyesight due to quantities of melanin (Welsing, F. C. 1987. "Lecture 1st Melanin Conference, San Francisco, September 16-17, 1987"). There is, of course, no evidence for this special eyesight, nor for other equally implausible notions such as the claim that the Dogon got their knowledge from black Egyptians who had telescopes. ​ *a terrestrial source? * ​ Carl Sagan agreed with Temple that the Dogon could not have acquired their knowledge without contact with an advanced technological civilization. Sagan suggests, however, that that civilization was terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial. Perhaps the source was Temple himself and his loose speculations on what he learned from Griaule, who based his account on an interview with one person, Ambara, and an interpreter. ​ According to Sagan, western Africa has had many visitors from technological societies located on planet earth. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. Furthermore, there had been a good amount of discussion of Sirius in the scientific press in the '20s so that by the time Griaule arrived, the Dogon may have had a grounding in 20th century technological matters brought to them by visitors from other parts of earth and transmitted in conversation.​ Or, Griaule's account may reflect his own interests more than that of the Dogon. He made no secret of the fact that his intention was to redeem African thought. When Walter van Beek studied the Dogon, he found no evidence they knew Sirius was a double star or that Sirius B is extremely dense and has a fifty-year orbit.​Knowledge of the stars is not important either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. The position of the sun and the phases of the moon are more pertinent for Dogon reckoning. No Dogon outside of the circle of Griaule's informants had ever heard of sigu tolo or po tolo... Most important, no one, even within the circle of Griaule informants, had ever heard or understood that Sirius was a double star (Ortiz de Montellano).*​According to Thomas Bullard, van Beek speculates that Griaule "wished to affirm the complexity of African religions and questioned his informants in such a forceful leading manner that they created new myths by confabulation." Griaule either informed the Dogon of Sirius B or "he misinterpreted their references to other visible stars near Sirius as recognition of the invisible companion" (Bullard).​ The only mystery is how anyone could take seriously either the notion of amphibious aliens or telescopic vision due to melanin.​


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 10, 2010)

crackerboy said:


> The fact that there is so many religions is due to the Devil being very clever. He continuously tries to find ways to lead us astray. He reveals half truths and gives just enough insight into certain subject to make people follow them.


Well I can't argue with that lol.


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 10, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> Why would the emergence of a new species mean the previous one no longer exists? I mean by this logic you should only have "Life: the final version". Sounds like you are the one missing a few brain cells.
> 
> And the limitation of visiting across the universe isn't a matter of technology. It's more fundamental than that, we are restricted by the laws of nature.
> 
> Also the energy required for interstellar travel makes it totally illogical that anyone would ever use it as a resource gathering mission. The time and energy required are staggering. It will never ever happen. We will most likely never visit another star, and im 100% certain we will never visit another star that has intelligent life. Nor will they visit us.


You have NO IDEA where we will be at in 100000 years. Think about a hundred years ago and we an already prove that time travel is possible with advanced mathematics. It is more than probable that a society out there, or many, have the ability to travel through space and time. And we will in the distant future. If you believe that aliens have ever been to our planet than you are contradicting yourself beause they would need to manipulate space and time to get here due to the infinate size and distance between us. And Laws of Nature?!? WTF kind of physical scientific evidence is that. Show something real.


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## jfa916 (Nov 10, 2010)

im an alien fuck you guys blew my cover


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## beardo (Nov 10, 2010)

Tyrannabudz said:


> What you think are aliens are actually hyper dimensional beings. They are all around. They are outside of our visual spectrum. Some of the malevolent beings feed off of negative human emotion. Historically thet are what could be considered demons.


 Those are reptillians some of them are people you can see some you can not see and some are in between but then theirs aliens and aliens are real reptilians might be related to aliens


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## beardo (Nov 10, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> I've smoked plenty of bong rips and pondered a lot of things. The argument that some technology we have today would have seemed "magic" to someone back in the day doesn't really mean that anything we consider "magic" now is equally as likely to happen given time. Yes a lighter would have seemed "magic" to them, but that's because they had NO CLUE about what was fundamentally going on. The science behind a hand held lighter is easy to explain, and fits well within the laws of nature. Nothing magic about it. Traversing galaxies at greater than speed...that's and entirely different story. With the lighter they just had ignorance, just the absence of how that worked or would attribute it to something supernatural. .


 all your stuff your cell phone and t.v. are alien technolegy we have had for years they reverse engineered it to seem beleviable they made a phone then a cordless then a cell so it would make sence but those were developed from bad ass alien stuff we have that hasn't even come out yet


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## guy incognito (Nov 10, 2010)

beardo said:


> all your stuff your cell phone and t.v. are alien technolegy we have had for years they reverse engineered it to seem beleviable they made a phone then a cordless then a cell so it would make sence but those were developed from bad ass alien stuff we have that hasn't even come out yet


far out man.





im fucking baked man.


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## beardo (Nov 11, 2010)

Anyone remember when the air force fought the aliens over washington D.C.? it was in the 50"s over 1000 people watched it in the middle of the day


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## mindphuk (Nov 11, 2010)

beardo said:


> Anyone remember when the air force fought the aliens over washington D.C.? it was in the 50"s over 1000 people watched it in the middle of the day


 Yea, wasn't that the year after Godzilla destroyed Tokyo?


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## beardo (Nov 11, 2010)

did that come out in 1952?


mindphuk said:


> Yea, wasn't that the year after Godzilla destroyed Tokyo?


[youtube]Asa91nLri00[/youtube][youtube]J4MImutKnwI[/youtube]


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## mindphuk (Nov 11, 2010)

Yes, the sightings are still unidentified, I guess that proves it, they were aliens.


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## NevaSmokedOut (Nov 11, 2010)

i believe that ghosts are real an aliens too, hell from what ive seen so far super powers may exist already.


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## Dropastone (Nov 11, 2010)

[youtube]24S19DewAfg[/youtube]


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## Dropastone (Nov 11, 2010)

*The audio is about 3 to 5 sec out of sync but it's watchable*

[youtube]BToUxSi-QwA[/youtube] 

[youtube]3M7PA0sJjZs&NR=1[/youtube]

[youtube]-mm2-do9840&NR=1[/youtube] 
*
About the first 3 min of part 4 is the last 3 min part of part 3*

[youtube]dBMizKXmAtg&NR=1[/youtube]


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 13, 2010)

Beardo. No way are you right. In one post you just took all the credit away from any human being who has ever invented or created any advanced device. No. We have had contact w aliens for a long time and still do, we did not get our shitty technology from them.


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## beardo (Nov 13, 2010)

SOGfarmer said:


> Beardo. No way are you right. In one post you just took all the credit away from any human being who has ever invented or created any advanced device. No. We have had contact w aliens for a long time and still do, we did not get our shitty technology from them.


Are you trying to tell me airplanes and cellphones didn't come from aliens? I understand people made them but It had to be done with alien technolegy


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## mindphuk (Nov 13, 2010)

beardo said:


> Are you trying to tell me airplanes and cellphones didn't come from aliens? I understand people made them but It had to be done with alien technolegy


I agree. You are discounting the contributions of many great discoveries leading up to the inventions that YOU say could not have happened without aliens. Is it just cellphones and TVs or all devices that use radio transmissions and semiconductors? When exactly did we get the knowledge? Roswell? If so, then that discounts any discovery that predates that time, right? So how do TVs fit in again?


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## beardo (Nov 14, 2010)

aliens have been coming since Egypt and Montipeachu they had crazy tech which we have slowly released...reverce enginered like they made a crappy telograph then a shitty phone then a cordless phone-because if they gave you an Iphone in 1920 you would've freaked out..the same with cloning people..they've been doing it they just told you they could do sheep so you wont freak out someday when they release clones


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 14, 2010)

beardo said:


> Are you trying to tell me airplanes and cellphones didn't come from aliens? I understand people made them but It had to be done with alien technolegy


 NOOOOO>. So you go talk to the guys that invented cellphone microchips and storage chips, and the small light pixels that make up the image on the screen, and the guy who put it all together and made a cellphone and tell them what you just said and see what they say. ALIEN TECHNOLOGY (technology that we cannot create on this planet ourselves) is, well, nowhere to be found on this planet. I can go halfway with you and say that thousands of years in the past civilizations were probably visited by aliens and were given thechnology to help them advance. But today? No. Maybe in some Special Access Programs in the government that we will never find out about, but until then the general population does not have any direct contact with alien technology.


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 14, 2010)

Our government did not take alien technology and what you call REVERSE ENGINERE it so that we would have shittier technology and advance slower. You are WAAAAAY over estimating the selfish self-centered politics who make up our government today, doing nothing but what is in their best interest. Not to mention that if an alien civilization came to earth they must be thousands, probably hundereds of thousands of years more advanced than us. Do you really think they still have fucking cellphones. Do you think they still even use any of the type of materials used in our products today such as metals and plastics and general elements? No. No. No. No. They understand quantum physics and then thousands of years past that. We cannot not even imagine in our head the type of technology that they have and the scale that it is at.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 14, 2010)

beardo said:


> aliens have been coming since Egypt and Montipeachu they had crazy tech which we have slowly released...reverce enginered like they made a crappy telograph then a shitty phone then a cordless phone-because if they gave you an Iphone in 1920 you would've freaked out..the same with cloning people..they've been doing it they just told you they could do sheep so you wont freak out someday when they release clones


Umm.. source please?


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 14, 2010)

good luck w that lol


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## Tw3nti3ight (Nov 14, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> I agree. You are discounting the contributions of many great discoveries leading up to the inventions that YOU say could not have happened without aliens. Is it just cellphones and TVs or all devices that use radio transmissions and semiconductors? When exactly did we get the knowledge? Roswell? If so, then that discounts any discovery that predates that time, right? So how do TVs fit in again?



Hitler and WWII had UFO crash...you people think they only crash in the USA???

WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!


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## crackerboy (Nov 14, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> So that's your evidence, that grown men that previously didn't believe in a god changed their mind? Wow, compelling. <yawn>
> 
> BTW, when you were a child not learning about religion, did anyone happen to try to teach you logic and reason?



I was not trying to give any evidence of anything. Do you always have to be a dick. I think that if people believe that there is enough evidence to support creation via aliens then there is equal scientific evidence of creation via God. I think that the two studies are really one in the same.


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## mindphuk (Nov 14, 2010)

a


crackerboy said:


> I was not trying to give any evidence of anything. Do you always have to be a dick. I think that if people believe that there is enough evidence to support creation via aliens then there is equal scientific evidence of creation via God. I think that the two studies are really one in the same.


You would be correct. They are both bunk.


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## Tw3nti3ight (Nov 15, 2010)

crackerboy said:


> I was not trying to give any evidence of anything. Do you always have to be a dick. I think that if people believe that there is enough evidence to support creation via aliens then there is equal scientific evidence of creation via God. I think that the two studies are really one in the same.



Nice signature, truth! Country is nothing but hypocrite's...


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 15, 2010)

Tw3nti3ight said:


> Hitler and WWII had UFO crash...you people think they only crash in the USA???
> 
> WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!


 
Dude, I want to point out two things I noticed just reading this post;

1. You're speaking in absolute terms, as if the stuff you just said is already well known fact. That's a problem. Especially when you're trying to convince someone who doesn't already share the same opinion. It comes off as intellectually snobby, above everybody else's knowledge. 

If a UFO crashed - anywhere - it would not remain a secret, I assure you. 

2. "WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!" - again, intellectually snobby. Genuine, well thought out questions about UFO's get you places, this shit gets you nowhere.

I'm interested in the proof you have that confirms your statement that "Hitler and WW2 had a UFO crash".

Also, seriously, just consider what you are proposing for a second, think this through, what the movies tell you couldn't possibly ever happen because it just doesn't make any sense.

Aliens - presumably, much more advanced than our current technology as they'd be invading us or "visiting us", and when I say "much more advanced", I'm talking on par with Star Wars type levels, light speed if not faster travel, warp drives, cloaking technology, super advanced forms of fusion energy sources, etc. crazy shit like that... - travel the almost incomprehensible distances of interstellar space just to get to Earth and crash land. What? Seriously, what the fuck? That doesn't sound retarded to you? That would be like Europeans crossing the entire Atlantic Ocean and crash landing on the shores of America killing everyone on board... 

[youtube]xag3oOzvU68[/youtube]


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 15, 2010)

lol No. You would not know if a small vehicle crashed out of the sky. And there are thousands of reports of UFO sightings they are just not in the media and YOU choose not to believe them. That doesn't mean theyre not there.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 15, 2010)

SOGfarmer said:


> lol No. You would not know if a small vehicle crashed out of the sky. And there are thousands of reports of UFO sightings they are just not in the media and YOU choose not to believe them. That doesn't mean theyre not there.


Conveniently skipped over the entire rest of my post where I brought up Tysons point about traversing the void of interstellar space only to _crash land_ on Earth... 

That makes perfect sense to you? 

..nothing to say about the European analogy?

OK then...


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## Dropastone (Nov 15, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Dude, I want to point out two things I noticed just reading this post;
> 
> 1. You're speaking in absolute terms, as if the stuff you just said is already well known fact. That's a problem. Especially when you're trying to convince someone who doesn't already share the same opinion. It comes off as intellectually snobby, above everybody else's knowledge.
> 
> ...


That's good stuff man, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson becomes a comedian. Funny stuff at that. The only problem I have with that is, most scientists and astrophysicists will deny anything that they can't see, touch, smell or taste. Another problem I have with your post is that if we were being visited by aliens, its that you can't base you assumptions on a cpl of well documented UFO crashes. Think about it, let's just say we've been visited a thousand times by extraterrestrials, now out of a thousand times you would have to consider that one or two might have had some sort of a mechanical failure at one time or another. Remember, they travel vast distances to get here and more likely than not, your gonna have some ware and tare on the vehicle that got you here. Just like right here on earth, people fly everyday and from time to time they have a mechanical failure leading to fatal crashes. Who says aliens are any different? Just because they are more advanced than us doesn't mean they can't have a bad day.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 16, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> That's good stuff man, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson becomes a comedian. Funny stuff at that. The only problem I have with that is, most scientists and astrophysicists will deny anything that they can't see, touch, smell or taste. Another problem I have with your post is that if we were being visited by aliens, its that you can't base you assumptions on a cpl of well documented UFO crashes. Think about it, let's just say we've been visited a thousand times by extraterrestrials, now out of a thousand times you would have to consider that one or two might have had some sort of a mechanical failure at one time or another. Remember, they travel vast distances to get here and more likely than not, your gonna have some ware and tare on the vehicle that got you here. Just like right here on earth, people fly everyday and from time to time they have a mechanical failure leading to fatal crashes. Who says aliens are any different? Just because they are more advanced than us doesn't mean they can't have a bad day.



Did you watch that clip? Right at the beginning Tyson talks about how people go from "it's a UFO!" to "it's an alien!" without *any evidence*. Our minds are designed to work this way - argument from ignorance.

The "U" in "UFO" is the most important part, Unidentified. That's all it means. So why do you automatically jump to "it's an alien from another planet!"? What makes you think that? There is just not enough evidence to definitively say it's aliens.


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## Dropastone (Nov 16, 2010)

Have you watched any videos I've posted, especially the NASA ones? Unidentified means unknown and I'm well aware of that but how can you discredit the evidence I've laid out to you. They may be unidentified but to me they appear to be under intelligent control. Furthermore if it was our government that has this technology I'm sure they wouldn't have kept it a secret this long and if they are, why. Also did you watch any episodes of season 1 Ancient aliens? That series gives the best evidence to date that we have been visited by extraterrestrials for thousands of years. It's my personal belief that they have shaped us and our civilization for a long long time.

I love debating this kind of stuff. I'm 40 years old and have been investigating this topic for the past 25 years and by no means do I consider myself an expert I'm just well educated on the topic at hand. When I was 18 me and my best friend at the time went to Texas to score some herb. We both had just got our tax refund checks and had a connection on some killer herb at a killer price and It was about a 2400 mile round trip. Anyway we're in Missouri at this point and time and headed to Texas. It was about 2 o'clock in the morning and I was driving and my friend was sleeping and we were in the part of the state were every thing is wide open and you could see for miles and miles with an unobstructed view of our surroundings. Off in the distance I seen this light and it had what I would call a strobe light and it was heading right for us. At this point is was still pretty far off and I wasn't thinking much about it, although it was getting closer and closer. Well as time went on I woke my buddy and said check this shit out. This light was approaching us pretty quick now and the light that came off this thing was like a strobe and every time it flashed it lit up the whole sky. You could see the clouds and the blue sky vividly when this light went off. Also when it went off I could barely make out the shape of this craft. It's shape was rectangular and it appeared to be the size of a football field with huge towers on top that resembled a giant floating city. By now it was very close like around 1000 yards in front and 1000 yards above us and we were both kinda freaking out, like what the hell is this thing. At the same time we were on a major highway with one car following us. I decided to slow down to keep the object in view and the car behind me slowed down too because he had to have seen it as well and we were the only two cars on the road at the time and he could have passed me at anytime but he didn't. All of the sudden this thing was right on top of us and it stopped it's forward direction and started moving in reverse like it was checking us out. Me and my friend are wigging out and wondering what the hell is this thing. So I decided to stop the car and my buddy is like what the hell are you doing. I say, I'm getting out to see what the hell this thing is. Well by the time I stopped the car and got out this thing is gone and no where to be seen in the night sky, like it just vanished into thin air. When I stopped the guy following behind us just kept going, he was probably a lot smarter than I was.

Anyway I had an experience that I can't explain and I will never forget and it's forever tattooed on my memory and I can recall it just like it was yesterday. So whatever you or anybody else has to say on this subject, I will never believe that we are not being visited by extraterrestrials on this planet. There is just too much evidence to prove that we are and have been visited and nothing to prove we haven't. So until you can prove me wrong and I doubt that will ever happen, I'll be a firm believer.


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## mindphuk (Nov 16, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> Anyway *I had an experience that I can't explain* and I will never forget and it's forever tattooed on my memory and I can recall it just like it was yesterday. So whatever you or anybody else has to say on this subject, I will never believe that we are not being visited by extraterrestrials on this planet. There is just too much evidence to prove that we are and have been visited and nothing to prove we haven't. So until you can prove me wrong and I doubt that will ever happen, I'll be a firm believer.


 You say you can't explain it and in the next breath, claim it was aliens without evidence to support that view, and therefore, other UFO sightings must be aliens too. You go from no evidence of extraterrestrials to saying there's too much evidence and that the evidence 'proves' what you claim. Do you see the problem skeptics will have with this kind of thought process. I'm not dismissing your experience, but no where in that story you related was any evidence, let alone proof that what you saw were aliens. Now you are shifting the burden of proof back on the skeptic by saying we must prove you wrong. Sorry, but the burden of proof still lies with you and people like you that claim we have been visited.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 16, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> Have you watched any videos I've posted, especially the NASA ones? Unidentified means unknown and I'm well aware of that but how can you discredit the evidence I've laid out to you. They may be unidentified but to me they appear to be under intelligent control. Furthermore if it was our government that has this technology I'm sure they wouldn't have kept it a secret this long and if they are, why. Also did you watch any episodes of season 1 Ancient aliens? That series gives the best evidence to date that we have been visited by extraterrestrials for thousands of years. It's my personal belief that they have shaped us and our civilization for a long long time.


I have not watched the videos you've posted, but I've seen the series on the History channel before. You have to understand, it is their job to get people to believe this stuff. This is a huge issue right now within the scientific community and everybody is realizing stuff like what the History channel is doing is extremely damaging to real, credible science. It's one of the main reasons the general American public is so scientifically illiterate. People hear ridiculous claims like Bigfoot or Aliens from outer space mixed with "expert opinions" and "scientific data" and automatically think it's real science.

The "evidence" you laid out to me is - as Tyson points out in that clip, *anecdotal* - which is the lowest form of "evidence" in the court of science. You need more than that. It isn't evidence of anything because everyone has different perceptions of reality, and all of our senses are subject to outside influences. You said you're 40 years old, so it's a good bet you've experienced at least one kind of hallucinatory substance in your life - senses and perceptions were nothing like when you were sober, right? Think of it like that, the same thing can happen when people experience emotional or traumatic events, see something shocking, etc. Our brains are powerful machines.




Dropastone said:


> Anyway I had an experience that *I can't explain* and I will never forget and it's forever tattooed on my memory and I can recall it just like it was yesterday. So whatever you or anybody else has to say on this subject, *I will never believe* that we are not being visited by extraterrestrials on this planet. *There is just too much evidence* to prove that we are and have been visited and * nothing to prove we haven't*. So until you can prove me wrong and I doubt that will ever happen, I'll be a firm believer.


You can't explain it - so it must be aliens. (do you see the issue?)

You will never believe otherwise. The mindset of a fundamentalist. BIG ISSUE. 

You have presented ZERO evidence.

Show me the proof that I _haven't_ climbed Mt. Everest. When you're done, explain to me why it's my job to prove a negative, and until I do, the positive is the default position to take. You need to understand LOGIC doesn't work this way. Saying something exists is one thing, until YOU prove that thing does in fact exist, IT DOESN'T. THAT is how LOGIC works. I hate to keep capitalizing words n shit man, but this is so unbelievably frustrating, I've been dealing with this exact same issue with 4 people lately, and it just blows my mind how someone could think this way, if you just play that same line of logic out you'll see for yourself why it doesn't work. Watch...

"Trolls exist.." "no they don't.." "prove they don't.."

...

"Unicorns exist..." "..no they don't..." "sure they do, I've seen them, prove they don't exist.."

...

See what I mean...

When people come into a debate asking someone to prove a negative it's an early indication they haven't been in the game long. BURDEN OF PROOF is on THE POSITIVE, NOT THE NEGATIVE. 


So do you have any evidence that can be tested to see if its aliens from another planet?


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## Dropastone (Nov 16, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> You say you can't explain it and in the next breath, claim it was aliens without evidence to support that view, and therefore, other UFO sightings must be aliens too. You go from no evidence of extraterrestrials to saying there's too much evidence and that the evidence 'proves' what you claim. Do you see the problem skeptics will have with this kind of thought process. I'm not dismissing your experience, but no where in that story you related was any evidence, let alone proof that what you saw were aliens. Now you are shifting the burden of proof back on the skeptic by saying we must prove you wrong. Sorry, but the burden of proof still lies with you and people like you that claim we have been visited.


Yeah you kinda took that out of context. I said I had an experience I couldn't explain. I didn't say that is was aliens or a spacecraft. It was just an experience that I nor my friend couldn't explain. I just thought it was a cool experience I had and I wanted to share it.

Although that experience did fuel my fire to learn as much as I could about the UFO Phenomenon that goes on around the world.




Padawanbater2 said:


> I have not watched the videos you've posted, but I've seen the series on the History channel before. You have to understand, it is their job to get people to believe this stuff. This is a huge issue right now within the scientific community and everybody is realizing stuff like what the History channel is doing is extremely damaging to real, credible science. It's one of the main reasons the general American public is so scientifically illiterate. People hear ridiculous claims like Bigfoot or Aliens from outer space mixed with "expert opinions" and "scientific data" and automatically think it's real science.
> 
> The "evidence" you laid out to me is - as Tyson points out in that clip, *anecdotal* - which is the lowest form of "evidence" in the court of science. You need more than that. It isn't evidence of anything because everyone has different perceptions of reality, and all of our senses are subject to outside influences. You said you're 40 years old, so it's a good bet you've experienced at least one kind of hallucinatory substance in your life - senses and perceptions were nothing like when you were sober, right? Think of it like that, the same thing can happen when people experience emotional or traumatic events, see something shocking, etc. Our brains are powerful machines.
> 
> ...


I"m growing very tired of all this mumbo jumbo you keep bringing to the table. Trolls and unicorns and MT Everest, I see where that is leading but come on dude. At least I bring some tangible evidence to the table and you bring nothing except your ideals and beliefs. You say it's not your job to prove a negative? I agree but at the least you could bring something to the table that is remotely plausible to back up your claims. Your just like everybody else that can't think for themselves. You rely on the scientific community, that I guess does your thinking for you.



> So do you have any evidence that can be tested to see if its aliens from another planet?


Do you have any evidence that can be tested to see that it's not.



> This is a huge issue right now within the scientific community and everybody is realizing stuff like what the History channel is doing is extremely damaging to real, credible science.


The only thing that is being damaged is there ego's. They realize that they've been wrong for a long time. Scientists don't like to admit when there wrong it makes them look stupid. So they will just stick to their guns until there is irrefutable evidence proving otherwise. 



> I've been dealing with this exact same issue with 4 people lately, and it just blows my mind how someone could think this way


Yeah, well at least we have one thing in common.

I've got my beliefs and you have yours. Let just leave it at that. I'm sure we will have plenty of time to butt heads on this subject in the future. So in the meantime let' just consider this a stalemate.

Have a nice day.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 16, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> At least I bring some tangible evidence to the table and you bring nothing except your ideals and beliefs.


Dude, I've asked you what tangible evidence you have and you still have yet to present anything tangible as evidence. All you've given us is anecdotal evidence, which doesn't equal tangible by any stretch of the word. 

What ideals or beliefs have I presented?



Dropastone said:


> You say it's not your job to prove a negative? I agree but at the least you could bring something to the table that is remotely plausible to back up your claims.


OK, something _remotely plausible_... How about math?

From the Sun to the Earth the distance is roughly 93 million miles, this equals *1AU*. It takes *light 8:20 +/-* to reach the Earth from the sun. 

The fastest spacecraft we've ever launched were the two Helios probes that studied the Sun that attained a maximum speed of around 150,000mpH (while in an elliptical orbit around the Sun, which is the only reason they reached such speeds). 

From the Sun to Neptune (now the farthest planet in our solar system), the distance is *30AU*. 

*4.05 - 4.12 hours for light to travel to Neptune traveling @ 186,000mpS

*Now, physics says we can't go faster than light, not matter what technology we achieve. Don't argue with me on this because it's irrelevant to the conversation. I realize what the physicists say could be wrong, but we are both arguing from from the same foundation as it's the only model available. For you to say "they could be wrong about going faster than light" - you have to present evidence, you can't just make the claim because that isn't science. 

Can we at least agree that there are no aliens, or intelligent life, within our own solar system? If you don't agree with that then I'd like to hear where you think they are, seriously. And why we haven't been able to either make contact with them or spot them definitively on telescopes or radar or something similar. 

The local group of galaxies covers a 10 million light year radius. 10 million light years. 

Our CLOSEST neighboring galaxy is Canis Major @ a distance of 25,000 light years away from our solar system. 

It would take a person going light speed 25,000 years to reach that galaxy from Earth. 

So please, explain to me how anything could accomplish that feat, why they would come, and why they wouldn't make themselves known. You think any government on the planet could keep an alien species existence under wraps if the aliens didn't want them to? Why would an alien race hide in such ways?

Answer all those questions, they're legitimate. Don't just skip over them, I want real answers.



Dropastone said:


> Your just like everybody else that can't think for themselves. You rely on the scientific community, that I guess does your thinking for you.


Dropastone, I have no problem admitting when someone else is a lot smarter than I am. Scientists study this stuff for a living. They put their life's work into it, it means a lot to them. I bullshit on RIU and youtube in my spare time, it's pretty safe to say they know a little more than I do about these issues. If you don't think so, you're only kidding yourself. 

The scientific community is a collective body of the WORLDS best and brightest. I am one man with a high school education and a computer... If you have credentials that compete with the worlds leading experts, then, by all means, go compete, but if you don't, why not admit it?
 


Dropastone said:


> Do you have any evidence that can be tested to see that it's not.


I've only facepalmed twice while reading a response from someone on the internet, congratulations, you're number 3!

What did I *JUST *tell you in my last post man? 



Dropastone said:


> The only thing that is being damaged is there ego's. They realize that they've been wrong for a long time. Scientists don't like to admit when there wrong it makes them look stupid. So they will just stick to their guns until there is irrefutable evidence proving otherwise.


That's just a stupid thing to say or believe...

Scientists don't give a flying fuck about their egos. Scientists LOVE to be proven wrong. It doesn't make a person look stupid to admit when they're wrong about something, it makes them look ADMIRABLE. Smart people understand this clearly! Stupid people keep incorrect opinions because they are stupid. It's shit like that that makes them stupid people. Science and real scientists are *only interested in the TRUTH*. Fuck profits, fuck funding, fuck what the public might feel comfortable with, the game of science and the entire reason it exists today is *solely to find the TRUTH*. That is what interests the scientist.


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## mindphuk (Nov 16, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> Yeah you kinda took that out of context. I said I had an experience I couldn't explain. I didn't say that is was aliens or a spacecraft. It was just an experience that I nor my friend couldn't explain. I just thought it was a cool experience I had and I wanted to share it.
> 
> Although that experience did fuel my fire to learn as much as I could about the UFO Phenomenon that goes on around the world.


_I _took it out of context? 
Let's look at the context -- "Anyway I had an experience that I can't explain and I will never forget and it's forever tattooed on my memory and I can recall it just like it was yesterday. So whatever you or anybody else has to say on this subject, I will never believe that we are not being visited by extraterrestrials on this planet"
Okay, you mention your experience. The next statement begins with "so" a word that links from the previous sentence. Then you preemptively negate whatever anyone else has to say and the very next sentence you admit that you believe we are being visited. 

Care to explain again how I took anything out of context? You just as easily could have researched and found there is no empirical evidence that we have been visited by looking at other reports of UFOs and coming to the same conclusions that scientists do, that many are faked, many are explainable and the very small fraction that aren't explainable still don't demonstrate there are spaceships from another planet. Many times phenomena can't be explained because there's not enough information but that doesn't mean you should let your personal bias get in the way and automatically default to extraterrestrials. This is how myths and superstitions are created. People see weird things and attribute them to imaginary beings. 

I find it very sad that after two people explained to you the burden of proof is on those making the positive claim, you say things like, " Do you have any evidence that can be tested to see that it's not."
Present some hard evidence for me to test first, then we can talk.


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## tardis (Nov 16, 2010)

To answer all of your concerns, YES there is life on other planets. No they have not come here and visited, we are behind a belt of gamma radiation that contains and protects us from them (and them from us) and it will be around us for another billion years. Besides, you wouldn't want to meet them any more then you'd want to meet any large wild animal in the jungle while defenseless. 

However UFOs are in fact real. The stories in the bible of Elijah being carried up into th heavens in a chariot, or the angels visiting men and teaching them the ways of God. Heck, John went on a UFO to armageddon, but it didn't take place on another planet. They are time travelers from what our human race evolves into (and not in a dumbed down form by any way). As someone who is stuck here in one of your unmodified stinking bodies I can tell you first off that Religion is what happens when you send soldiers back to do scientists work.... 
Oh yeah, my work is done, so I get to retire and grow old in your dead meatbags, and there were in fact a few things I didn't realize on my trip, for example you lot are quite ignorant to whats right in front of you... granted if you went back in time 15,000 years ago (much closer then I came from) and saw a group of humans surviving you would think them idiots for not using nets or eating certain fruits which were deamed poison by most tribes, much like I see teh world now... Hell I avoid civilization as much as I can because I just wind up angry at people thinking "how the heck do you not see whats right in front of your senses!?!?!?" 

But its kinda like camping, the fresh air, the old fashioned bud, the fossil fuels, all that raw unregulated electricity, clean water, and hell i'll just say it, APPLES! If I had known how good these suckers were i'd have worked on trying to replant until i found a clone capable of being what you people eat. These good strains of apples are dead and gone in the future so enjoy them. and all the fads when survival wasn't an issue... anyway I rant. 

John got taken into the future where we have modifed forms of life to adapt to the new planet by mixing them so we could retain their gentics when we do find a habitable planet, its why he saw all those creatures that seemed like animals he knew but wern't at the end of the world. oh yeah and his name was pronounced Sissy, which means girly man in your time. 

Anyway, UFOs (the real ones) are time machines. I love your movies like Repoman, because you guys know the truth, its just that delusion is how your kind process the world still so you hide the facts from yourselfs, like children with toys believing they each have differnt personalities instead of just hunks fo plastic. 

Nuff of my insane rants, I wish I had some of my bud with me but I have to travel by air which means sitting for hours on end in steel tubes next to farting strangers. I had to have my stomach removed just to avoid eating the trash you taint my generations with by adapting to. But at least I store your films and music in harddrives which I encase in freezers (like Pompeii ovens! Bless you maytag!) and put them in landfills that I know are explored before I was born so I can retain some of this lost information for my future... then again I wont see it. I'm like one of those no-return cosmonauts you send to Mars in 15 years. I'm retired....

Little word of advice? Those damned pervert pill eating tunnel digging greys are all assholes, if you see them, dont try to befriend them, just act scary and leave as quickly as you can. They are not scientists, they are explorers, they evolved from all the crap you guys adapt to like Danny Devito in Twins.


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## tardis (Nov 16, 2010)

Oh yes, and dont worry, time can't be "changed", everything that did happen or will happen does happen. Free Will Vs. Destiny, there is no difference.

OH yeah, and the "God" i mentioned is just a guy who rules a species. He is much like that Kim Jong Ill dude in how he tells his people he is the creator... 

But I shouldn't talk about that even though i'm finally free to do so here. Impossible to pull a Biff from B2TF2, but at the same time I dont get involved with UFOs anymore then a doctor wants to go home and watch greys anatomy. Its more work than its worth.


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## mindphuk (Nov 16, 2010)

wrt time travel. What is it that current scientists are missing? It seems to have been well-established that if backward time travel were possible, no one would be able to go back further than when the first time machine was built. It appears to be the only way to avoid paradoxes. Since it is obvious that we are wrong, what is the secret?


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## RawBudzski (Nov 16, 2010)

they do exist. but they dont consider themselves aliens as we do, its more of a definition or term. youd be surprised how Odd the human way of thinking/reasoning is compared to some other races. we are too complicated to them, tho they are much more advanced than us if you can understand. their are many, but if you are to ever meet the ones who are in control of our fate which are our ancestors most know as the Grey aliens. they are considered human as well, they are not taught the basics of Emotions, feelings, pain, want, need , greed until they are mature. its more of a lesson than life learning. they take focused to a new level, they understand that to FORCE the human race into advancing any faster would be horrible. we cannot compete nor be as they are because it would be like waking up tomorrow and the Human race deciding everyone whos insignificant in any way must be killed off, then the weak, then the ill. then force every new born to be under a strict program. once the 1st few generations pass our Human way of living has evolved. as far as their Faith goes, they dont dismiss a GOD or higher being at all, nor do they ever think or dwell on it. yet lacking our nieve ways they do put themselves on the same playingfield as their god.. like if their is a god. "we are proof" The Bible was Stories to capture the people minds for the better, like avatar may make our kids want to Save the planet. This is all true, Whoever knows the secrets of the Pyramids knows whats happening on this planet. also to put things in a bigger picture not just our ancestors but other alien races average lifespans can be over 500 earth years easily. But from our PERSPECTIVE say they visited tomorrow, and traveled abroad the star the next day. and returned a week later. a generation of people could have passed on this planet for what was a week to them. Thoes who watch over us happily spend 1-200 years slowly seeing us progress, leave then return to continue the show.


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## tardis (Nov 16, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> wrt time travel. What is it that current scientists are missing? It seems to have been well-established that if backward time travel were possible, no one would be able to go back further than when the first time machine was built. It appears to be the only way to avoid paradoxes. Since it is obvious that we are wrong, what is the secret?


Yes and men can't fly in machines, or else we would be able to strap giant tealeafs to our arms and flap up into the sky. Also there is no way something so small that you can't even see or touch it could go from pson to person leading to illness, everyone knows illness is the will of God...... 

No such thing as paradoxes since you can't change anything. Our universe grows backwards in time on the outside of our universes skin, within we move the opposite direction. 

Sounds like we are much too bright and smart now and so our scientists can't be missing anything can they? Have we somehow reached hte pinnacle of technology so the world will now forever stay the way it is now? 

Don't get me wrong, you are absolutly right not to believe me, it is rational to delude oneself into believing that what we don't see or experience isn't real. 

I had a buddy who believed that every soul had a purpose, we went through school together for 40 of your years. He gets a mission and travels back (not my method but actually traveled back in his long winged lankey body) to the 1500's and was discovered in a home by a theif, who proceded to tie him up and torture him with a friend to get information we learned in your kindergarden. He told them our language was called Enochian but actually that word pronounced means dropping a dungheap onto a passerby. A sense of humor to his death, good fellow.

wait what was I talking about, yes, i'm retired so I don't expect anyone to beleive me... its why i post it on a pot smoking website.


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## tardis (Nov 16, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> wrt time travel. What is it that current scientists are missing? It seems to have been well-established that if backward time travel were possible, no one would be able to go back further than when the first time machine was built. It appears to be the only way to avoid paradoxes. Since it is obvious that we are wrong, what is the secret?


It would be like explaining a television remote control to a member of the ottoman empire.


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## tardis (Nov 16, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> wrt time travel. What is it that current scientists are missing? It seems to have been well-established that if backward time travel were possible, no one would be able to go back further than when the first time machine was built. It appears to be the only way to avoid paradoxes. Since it is obvious that we are wrong, what is the secret?


The secret is you haven't evolved out of a filter a delusion to your memories which determine your future actions. You delude yourself to live in an emotionally boyant world where you are right in every situation and people you dislike are responsible for the bad things which otherwise wouldn't happen if they were correct in their methods like you are... Your kind don't yet take responsibility for their actions, and thus never really learn. Every action you take now manifests in a pattern which determines your mind and bodies automatic responses in the future. You don't determine 99% of your life, you simply believe you are making choices when in fact you are fullfilling patterns, but to prevent the human mind from recognizing its lack of control it changes its memories of the past instead of the future, wearing out your memories until they dull and fade. You are all like junkies unable to quit, but with bad decisions in life instead of drugs.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 16, 2010)

tardis said:


> Nuff of my insane rants


Exactly what I was thinking..


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## mindphuk (Nov 16, 2010)

tardis said:


> Yes and men can't fly in machines, or else we would be able to strap giant tealeafs to our arms and flap up into the sky. Also there is no way something so small that you can't even see or touch it could go from pson to person leading to illness, everyone knows illness is the will of God......
> 
> No such thing as paradoxes since you can't change anything. Our universe grows backwards in time on the outside of our universes skin, within we move the opposite direction.
> 
> ...


 Why so hostile? I didn't say I didn't believe you or that science had all of the answers. I merely mentioned our current understanding of time travel, that physics does not actually prohibit time travel either forward or backward but they do question why travelers from the future haven't come back to our welcoming parties. It appears that it is not against any rules to tell anyone that you are a time traveler, so it seems odd that no one has come back to tell us to quit screwing up things for our future selves. And if there is no rule to prevent telling other people (like the time prime directive in Star Trek), how can you avoid changing anything? The very fact that information from the future can be leaked changes mankind's current progress. You don't even have to physically interact with anyone to change the past, even sending a note could alter the way things unfold. 
Anyway, back to the questions since this is really intriguing. How exactly are paradoxes avoided? What mechanism prevents a traveler from affecting his own timeline? I know some theoretical physicists (some of the same ones that have an annual party inviting future travelers to come back), think that when you travel back into time, you actually never visit your own universe. This is of course based on the hypothesis of a multiverse. IOW, if I go back and kill my grandfather, I will not be born in the universe that I am currently visiting but there is no paradox because there are a lot of universes where I never exist and all I did was create another.


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## mindphuk (Nov 16, 2010)

tardis said:


> The secret is you haven't evolved out of a filter a delusion to your memories which determine your future actions. You delude yourself to live in an emotionally boyant world where you are right in every situation and people you dislike are responsible for the bad things which otherwise wouldn't happen if they were correct in their methods like you are... Your kind don't yet take responsibility for their actions, and thus never really learn. Every action you take now manifests in a pattern which determines your mind and bodies automatic responses in the future. You don't determine 99% of your life, you simply believe you are making choices when in fact you are fullfilling patterns, but to prevent the human mind from recognizing its lack of control it changes its memories of the past instead of the future, wearing out your memories until they dull and fade. You are all like junkies unable to quit, but with bad decisions in life instead of drugs.


 You appear to be making a helluva lot of assumptions about me and what I know or believe. You appear to have taken my post as sarcasm. You would think people of the future would be able to get over themselves a bit more. Yes, _that _was sarcasm.


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## mindphuk (Nov 16, 2010)

tardis said:


> It would be like explaining a television remote control to a member of the ottoman empire.


 Yet I could easily explain it in a few short minutes. He might not grasp all of the concepts, but it wouldn't be beyond his ability to understand with some help.


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## doowmd (Nov 16, 2010)

This conversation is getting very interesting.........I'd really like to hear more from u tardis.......I don't mind being the ignorant one in the group...plz enlighten me, to the best of your abilities, about time travel, the future and such. Feel free to treat me like a child while explaining and if I don't understand/can't grasp the concept, well u told me so. This is not intended to be a funny post either. I'm seriously interested in hearing about this from you!


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## RavenMochi (Nov 16, 2010)

just think, one day we'll be the alien race abducting test subjects, implanting probes, and dropping them back off dazed and confused so the rest of their species thinks they're crazy...  What a proud day for our race that will be....


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## Jer La Mota (Nov 16, 2010)

Aliens as we know it (Hollywood) nope .. Fiction, man made.

Life on other planets, solar systems, sure, why wouldn't it be possible ? 

Its not logical to assume we are the only ones ..


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## RavenMochi (Nov 17, 2010)

I think its a numbers game, with as many other planets/solar systems there are, there has to not only be life as advanced as us, but more than likely some more advanced. with those numbers, it also seems highly likely to me that at least one of those would be advanced enough to know how to make the trips...


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 17, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> I think its a numbers game, with as many other planets/solar systems there are, there has to not only be life as advanced as us, but more than likely some more advanced. with those numbers, it also seems highly likely to me that at least one of those would be advanced enough to know how to make the trips...


How do you get past the numbers, even if they could get here with ships? I don't know of any biological creatures that cane exist for 25,000 years.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 17, 2010)

it wouldn't take that long pad, even now with as primitive as technology is they were developing a way to "teleport" its really kind of creepy though, you should look into it. my guess though, would be the use of something like a controlled worm hole. don't know honestly, but lets face it, i remember when using dark matter, or anti-matter was all scifi, yet in the 90's i read a report from nasa about the development of an engine that would use antimatter, and by the estimations at the time it would allow us to make the 2 year trip to mars in 2-4 months. apparently when we first started fucking with nuclear power we were only harvesting 2-5%percent of the energy being created, where now we get closer to 98%. It was my understanding at the time that the creation of antimatter was that inefficient, but that they believed it would be improved the same way. if i recall it took a 250lb magnetic container to hold 15 nanograms, look it up and see what you find. the point is, anything can be done, if only the technology to do it can be understood....


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## Dropastone (Nov 17, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Dude, I've asked you what tangible evidence you have and you still have yet to present anything tangible as evidence. All you've given us is anecdotal evidence, which doesn't equal tangible by any stretch of the word.
> 
> What ideals or beliefs have I presented?
> 
> ...


I beg to differ, scientists have huge egos. If they don't understand something that other scientists bring to their attn that doesn't fit into there ideas or beliefs they'll easily dismiss it and ridicule them for their beliefs. Most scientists wouldn't even dare to bring it up for fear of being ostracized by the scientific community.

Now I feel I have given you the best answers I can to all of your questions. If you don't like what I have to say then so be it. It's clear to me we don't have the same views on this subject and we could debate this subject for years to come and I just don't have that kind of time. Your not gonna change my mind and I'm not gonna change yours. So why proceed any further.

Have a nice day.


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## Dropastone (Nov 17, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> _I _took it out of context?
> Let's look at the context -- "Anyway I had an experience that I can't explain and I will never forget and it's forever tattooed on my memory and I can recall it just like it was yesterday. So whatever you or anybody else has to say on this subject, I will never believe that we are not being visited by extraterrestrials on this planet"
> Okay, you mention your experience. The next statement begins with "so" a word that links from the previous sentence. Then you preemptively negate whatever anyone else has to say and the very next sentence you admit that you believe we are being visited.
> 
> ...


Okay you got me. I used the word "so" referring to my last paragraph. That experience did leave me to believe in a extraterrestrial presence on earth. As for evidence in either case, yours or mine. I would have to say no one has any hard evidence to be tested that can be conclusive. All I have is the information I've posted in this thread that clearly goes unnoticed. The only other evidence I can see from your point of view or others on this thread is that we can't break the speed of light. To me that isn't hard evidence either because maybe you don't have to break the speed of light to travel from one solar system to the next.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 17, 2010)

Your Ideas and beliefs clearly indicate that there can't possibly be any other form of life out there that can figure out how to traverse the great expanse of space to visit other solar systems. 

No, that's not what I've been saying at all. I pointed out the problem with traveling such distances using our current technology. Then the other problem with coming here in the first place. Finally the other problem with keeping it all a secret. None of which you've adequately answered. All you've given me so far are "maybe"'s or "what if"'s - which as I've been explaining the *entire time* *is not science*. We are talking about aliens from other planets, this is a *scientific discussion*, not a fantasy sci-fi one. You can sit here and speculate all day long and it won't get us anywhere, that's why I've been trying to steer the conversation away from doing that, won't you join me? 

Pertaining to the paragraph above. You clearly don't look at anything I bring to the table. You just dismiss it because in you mind I just isn't possible so why should you look.

ROFL! Be specific. What have I dismissed that you've brought to the table?

I posted a cpl of NASA videos that might just show you a cpl of answers to the questions you just asked.

I'm interested in *your answers*, not NASA's. I'm trying to get you to think a little differently about this stuff than you usually do.

Also there are documented cases where our government and a few others have tracked *unknown craft* at unworldly speeds on radar. Fighter pilots, airline pilots, military personnel and astronauts have all seen things * they can't explain*. So I guess they're all kooks and liars as well.

See man, you are clearly taking this personally, another HUGE issue when discussing these kinds of things. I never called any of them, any of you, "kooks and liars". Not once. Because I don't believe your story the way you believe it to have happened, that means I think you're lying to me? WTF? No. 

Like I've been saying this whole thread, it isn't a matter of if you or any of the people who believe they've seen aliens are lying about it. It's a matter of *what they are actually seeing*. Human perception along with preconceived, highly influenced projections of what we *THINK *we might see is enough to make us *BELIEVE* we actually did see aliens. You need to understand how this works so you can avoid falling into that trap every time you see something in the sky you can't explain. 

Did it ever occur to you that a race possibly a billion years ahead of us technologically *could** have* figured out a way to do this without even having to break the speed of light. Have you ever heard of worm holes or warp drive, were you bend the fabric of space to get from point A to B in less time. I don't believe lights speed has anything to do with that. 



> Now, physics says we can't go faster than light, not matter what technology we achieve. *Don't argue with me on this because  it's irrelevant to the conversation. I realize what the physicists say could be wrong, but we are both arguing from from the same foundation as it's the only model available*. For you to say "they could be wrong about going faster than light" - you have to present evidence, you can't just make the claim because that isn't science.


All of that is theoretical at this point in physics.

You don't believe light speed has anything to do with it because you don't understand enough about it. Don't take offense to that, it's just the truth.

If I left anything out let me know.

I just don't understand how you can sit there and admit yourself that you don't know for sure any of the answers to the questions I just asked you and yet you still believe it's aliens from another planet. Even in light of the mathematical evidence I provided that actually works here in the real world.

You realize what you're doing is logically inconsistent at least, right? No different than me saying I believe in Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster? 
 
I'll admit I don't have the smarts compete with the worlds leading scientists on this subject. Although I do have enough smarts to consider the possibility's of things that are of the unknown. I like to think of things that are out side the box, not just within the box.

Dude, there is a *huge difference* between "considering the possibilities" and doing what you're doing - marking everything you *believe* up as cold hard fact. 

I beg to differ, scientists have huge egos. If they don't understand something that other scientists bring to their attn that doesn't fit into there ideas or beliefs they'll easily dismiss it and ridicule them for their beliefs. 

It doesn't matter what any individual scientist does, whether he believes a credible theory or not, it has no bearing on the credibility of that theory itself. This is why science stands alone, this is why it's such a powerful force. Take Newtons physical laws for instance. How much do you think it matters if Scientist X believes in them for them to work as described? None. 

Most scientists wouldn't even dare to bring it up for fear of being ostracized by the scientific community.

There is only one reason a scientist would be fearful of having a theory examined; 

Their personal religious belief conflicts with it. 

For example, creation _scientists_. Creation _scientists_ generally believe in a young Earth creation theory that says the Earth is 6,000 years old, all of geology contradicts this, so when they approach the scientific community saying "I believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old, not 4.5 billion years old, here is my proof, my Bible, it says it right there in black and white.." they're laughed out of their "credentials" they received from Liberty University. That scientist then goes on to claim they're being "oppressed" or "ostracized" by the scientific community. 

See, so they simply can't take that they're wrong about it because they're not actually interested in what the truth is. They are interested in proving what the Bible says is true. 

Exact same shit Ben Stein pulls. Give me a fucking break with that shit.
 


Dropastone said:


> As for evidence in either case, yours or mine. I would have to say no one has any hard evidence to be tested that can be conclusive. All I have is the information I've posted in this thread that clearly goes unnoticed. The only other evidence I can see from your point of view or others on this thread is that we can't break the speed of light.* To me* that isn't hard evidence either because *maybe* you don't have to break the speed of light to travel from one solar system to the next.


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## mindphuk (Nov 17, 2010)

Assuming that there are beings within proximity to reach us, it seems to me very unlikely that any individual biologic organisms would come themselves. Sending out probes, perhaps millions of them, is a far more efficient, and reasonable way to explore. It is safer for them as well. They wouldn't have to worry about a toxic oxygen rich atmosphere like Earth has or the potential microorganisms that could be devastating to a species with a naive immune system. Remember, bacteria and viruses have been known to adapt very readily. We even have bacteria that can digest nylon, a synthetic. It makes me think that any form of life could be susceptible. Even if they aren't explorers but came here purposely because of our radio transmissions (much more unlikely as they would have to be within 200 light years), then probes are still the answer. The idea that a civilization as advanced as they are would come themselves I think stretches credibility. We are at a point where a possible future includes living completely in a virtual world, possibly uploading our consciousness to machines. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility some other civilization has already achieved similar ends.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 17, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Assuming that there are beings within proximity to reach us, it seems to me very unlikely that any individual biologic organisms would come themselves. Sending out probes, perhaps millions of them, is a far more efficient, and reasonable way to explore. It is safer for them as well. They wouldn't have to worry about a toxic oxygen rich atmosphere like Earth has or the potential microorganisms that could be devastating to a species with a naive immune system. Remember, bacteria and viruses have been known to adapt very readily. We even have bacteria that can digest nylon, a synthetic. It makes me think that any form of life could be susceptible. Even if they aren't explorers but came here purposely because of our radio transmissions (much more unlikely as they would have to be within 200 light years), then probes are still the answer. The idea that a civilization as advanced as they are would come themselves I think stretches credibility. We are at a point where a possible future includes living completely in a virtual world, possibly uploading our consciousness to machines. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility some other civilization has already achieved similar ends.


as logical as that all sounds, it ignores history. the first chance we got to put a man on the moon, we did. and it wasn't even really for practical reasons, we just wanted to be able to tell the world we did it first. Pure pride,and nothing else. Not knowing anything about any of the other "races" that exist we can't really understand their motives to say. maybe to them at this point in their development its no big thing. maybe to them we're like some twisted up nature reserve, the subject of a show on their discovery channel equivalent... I can tell you this we as a species aren't content with just sending probes to mars, and there is now an initiative to get men to mars in the next 20 years. so what I'm getting at, is if we right now had the technology to travel to another solar system to study a planet with developing intelligent life, we would do it. So why wouldn't they again? I don't think people will as a race upload themselves to a machine....don't get me wrong, we'll be able to, and some will do it, but you'll never get everyone to, who would watch the servers? now data loss could wipe out hundreds of lives....more dangerous then I think you realize.


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## Tw3nti3ight (Nov 17, 2010)

Snobby, yea to ignorance...You damn right...you don't know me or anything about me...so I would recognize padawanbater2


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## jrems (Nov 17, 2010)

Science estimates the age of our universe to be just under 14 billion years. Scientists are now beginning to hypothesize that there may be many universes a multiverse so to speak. So our planet is one of 8-9 planets depending on your definition, revolving around the sun. The sun is one star in the Milky Way Galaxy which contains an estimated 100 billion stars. And the universe is estimated to contain trillions of galaxies so....Over some 13+ billion years of cosmic evolution on literally hundreds of trillions of planets, we "intelligent" humans still struggle with the question "are we alone?" My guess is that life probably is not that rare in the cosmos since it evolved or was brought here it would likely have evolved or have been brought elsewhere as well. I would also conjecture that ET's have been to earth and may have left artifacts or even living organisms behind. Maybe earth has such a vast array of varying lifeforms because our solar system was actually a stopping over point between galaxies (as astronomers say we are located far out on the outskirts of our galaxy). As different races came and went on their travels they may have tinkered with life here or even introduced new forms. Maybe earth is just a big laboratory (I'm sure someone would have thrown that idea out there somewhere in the 81 pages of this thread). Another interesting point to note is the presence of anomalous structure and artifacts all over the planet. For instance the Nazca Lines, the presence of dinosaurs being depicted in Mayan art and on temple walls, the precision of the pyramids, the gigantic architectures resembling ancient egyptian located in about 100 ft depths around the globe, and the list goes on and on there are so many instances of these anomalies that mainstream science and archaeology ignore. I guess my opinion is this; extraterrestrials have almost certainly been to earth in the past, given the absurd number of UFO sightings and crash reports since the 1940's, the persistence of whistleblowers who continually report the existence and knowledge of ET's by our governments, leads me to believe that they have been here and still are and it is only a matter of time before the U.S. government discloses this.


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## jrems (Nov 17, 2010)

Oh yeah and if we do ever harness our own insecurities and stop destroying ourselves then I would guess that we would travel the stars seeking out new life and habitable planets to boldly go where someone undoubtedly already has!


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## beardo (Nov 17, 2010)

jrems said:


> Oh yeah and if we do ever harness our own insecurities and stop destroying ourselves then I would guess that we would travel the stars seeking out new life and habitable planets to boldly go where someone undoubtedly already has!


 I would fuck a alien to


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## RavenMochi (Nov 17, 2010)

beardo said:


> I would fuck a alien to


&#8224;LHFAO&#8224; gotta respect a man that can say that when he's got no fucking idea what these bitches will look like....


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## tardis (Nov 17, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> You appear to be making a helluva lot of assumptions about me and what I know or believe. You appear to have taken my post as sarcasm. You would think people of the future would be able to get over themselves a bit more. Yes, _that _was sarcasm.


No, not YOU you, not mindphuk you, i mean You as in humanity as a whole.


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## tardis (Nov 18, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> wrt time travel. What is it that current scientists are missing? It seems to have been well-established that if backward time travel were possible, no one would be able to go back further than when the first time machine was built. It appears to be the only way to avoid paradoxes. Since it is obvious that we are wrong, what is the secret?


Ok, i didn't know thats how you saw things. My host didn't see things that way and i'm limited to his mind (with mine of course of which I got no frame of refrence for reactions). Not true, wormholes plus expressions in both positive, negative, and dark energy (to use your words for the trinity) methods are possible. Wormholes can't be Created by any expression of dark energy (consciousness), but rather they exist in points where bent timespace crosses itself... you see timespace has direction and since the limits of the outerverse put the form like a flower into play the petals begin and start with eachother... think an oval circling into the shape of a flower then add a spiral up (its kinda a universal consistent I figured your time figured out already). Now the times when these spaces cross are set, they are a part of the development of the universe, like a skipping frame within a film. Its ingraned, can't be changed.

Time travel happens, but we got very very little options to where and when we can go. that last true solid crossing was both approx 6,000 years ago and approx 24,000 years from now. 

There is no way to create a paradox anymore then you could re-write the shape of the rings within an already grown tree. What happens happend, those "what if" science equations were built by the current human need to find something that doesn't make sense to create this God that is both a manifestation of mankind and outside of mankinds time at the same time. A Loop for lack of a better english word. (loops are one of the many patterns that exist throughout all levels of all 3 realities). 

Now dark energy, to help make this make sense, peeks into both positive and anti mater universes. As both consciousness and the battery that keeps it moving (it moves backwards so that we can move forward... think a jar with sand on top and water below airtight, the sand would displace the water upwards. As dark energy pushes time forward and also expresses itself in consciousness within both. This is very hard to translate as its something i've never had to say or was never taught to me. It is a given that we know this as it is a given that you are able to understand what language is without it being explained, you move on from it as you mind knows it.

oh yes, one friend of mine was known in history as Aristotle. He retired like I in his time and didn't know of himself before going. I watched him (angel like invisible), and he didn't drink the lead laden water that made the human he mused (plato) go mad and misunderstand many of his suggestions. He thought he would create a paradox so as to go home. He convinced a young prince to take over the world and destroy everything in its path making all light skinned so as to wipe out a reboot for his soul. of course it didn't always work. He knew better but we didn't know enough yet and he was young. He lost some of his spark going there, something we had not counted on but which explained what happend to us. Some might say that the unvierse changed history but our records from antimater show this is not true, nothing was ever changed.....

I do not know what exactly you want. My host for lack of a better word doesn't know enough of the words I need to explain this to you. Perhaps if you were him you would want things that benefited you like stock numbers...

How about this, what little we do truely know from your age (despite how much we thought we knew) I do know that the President was Rubio when the western world changed forever. I just retire here because this spot was protected. Don't worry about it, it doesn't change much and I can't change any future outcome nor do I have any desire to, i'm just saying I got a golden ticket because I took a one way trip so i got access most didn't. As for all the info I have I think i've used it all up to any benefit it could give my host. and if you are still reading this PSYCH, not true, all a troll to remind you not to beleive everything you read.


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## tardis (Nov 18, 2010)

tardis said:


> Ok, i didn't know thats how you saw things. My host didn't see things that way and i'm limited to his mind (with mine of course of which I got no frame of refrence for reactions). Not true, wormholes plus expressions in both positive, negative, and dark energy (to use your words for the trinity) methods are possible. Wormholes can't be Created by any expression of dark energy (consciousness), but rather they exist in points where bent timespace crosses itself... you see timespace has direction and since the limits of the outerverse put the form like a flower into play the petals begin and start with eachother... think an oval circling into the shape of a flower then add a spiral up (its kinda a universal consistent I figured your time figured out already). Now the times when these spaces cross are set, they are a part of the development of the universe, like a skipping frame within a film. Its ingraned, can't be changed.
> 
> Time travel happens, but we got very very little options to where and when we can go. that last true solid crossing was both approx 6,000 years ago and approx 24,000 years from now.
> 
> ...


Seriously time travel, aliens, even if they did exist they would be no benefit to you... growing weed however, that shit will make you smile. (do it legally)


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## Dropastone (Nov 18, 2010)

@ pad. *Your* problem is that *you* can only think in the *here and now* within our own solar system. It's not *wrong* to think that there *May* be life out there that is way more advanced than us and *Could* have figured out how to travel to different solar systems or to different galaxies for that matter, other than obtaining the *speed of light* to do it. To *think* our civilization is the *final word* in space travel is just *foolish* in my opinion. I may not have the facts you you seek but it doesn't mean it can't be done. 

I just want to pose one last question to you and it's a *hypothetical* question at that and it doesn't involve science as we *(as a race)* know it. Try thinking outside the box for once and please give me an honest answer, then I'm *finished* with ya.

*Now Let's just say* there is an alien race out there that is *technologically 1 billion years ahead of us*. Now considering the universe is *14 billion* years old and Earth is *4.5 billion* years old. I don't think this *hypothetical* question is totally out of the bounds of reality. Now in this question I submit to you, were gonna leave *achieving the* *speed of light* totally out of the question. 

Here we go. Do you think a race *1 billion* years more advanced than us could *possibly* achieve interstellar space travel using worm holes or warp drive technology? Or even some other advanced technology our little *feeble* minds haven't even begun to consider?

Now think about this for a minute and give me your honest answer.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 18, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> @ pad. *Your* problem is that *you* can only think in the *here and now* within our own solar system. It's not *wrong* to think that there *May* be life out there that is way more advanced than us and *Could* have figured out how to travel to different solar systems or to different galaxies for that matter, other than obtaining the *speed of light* to do it. To *think* our civilization is the *final word* in space travel is just *foolish* in my opinion. I may not have the facts you you seek but it doesn't mean it can't be done.


Look man, we can sit here and *speculate* all day long, there could be, there might be, maybe... but where will that get us? Will it get us any closer to actually finding out the answer to those questions? No. That is the point. *Speculation* is *USELESS* in science in any practical terms. You need data, observation, measurements. You need something to test. Without that, you have nothing, exactly what you have.

What have you shown me? All you've said is that "maybe they don't need to go faster than light to get here". OK, maybe you're right! But you *have to have something to back that claim up*. Remember what I told you before, you seem to be just coming up with things, then *believe* in them without any facts to back it up, just however your mind happens to put it together. That isn't scientific and it's no different than the shit people do with Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster. You must understand this man, seriously.



Dropastone said:


> Do you think a race *1 billion* years more advanced than us could *possibly* achieve interstellar space travel using worm holes or warp drive technology? Or even some other advanced technology our little *feeble* minds haven't even begun to consider?


I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know enough about worm holes or warp drives to answer that question, and again, I suspect you don't either. Just what you've seen in movies.. 

Tell me, how do worm holes work?

What is a warp drive?

If the question is "could more advanced aliens achieve interstellar space travel using a more advanced technology than we currently have?" - from everything I currently know about physics, nothing, no matter how advanced, can travel faster than light, so that's out. If it can be done it has to be done via some kind of teleportation mechanism we haven't discovered.

But again man, the answer to this question is irrelevant to *this discussion*. 

It isn't what you *think you know*, it's *what you can prove* in science.

Let the speculation continue...


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## Dropastone (Nov 18, 2010)

*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]wormhole[/FONT]* [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 




A hypothetical "tunnel" connecting two different points in spacetime in such a way that a trip through the wormhole could take much less time than a journey between the same starting and ending points in normal space. The ends of a wormhole could, in theory, be _intra-universe_ (i.e. both exist in the same universe) or _inter-universe_ (exist in different universes, and thus serve as a connecting passage between the two). 

Wormholes arise as solutions to the equations of Einstein's general theory of relativity. In fact, they crop up so readily in this context that some theorists are encouraged to think that real counterparts may eventually be found or fabricated and, perhaps, used for high-speed space travel and/or time travel. However, a known property of wormholes is that they are highly unstable and would probably collapse instantly if even the tiniest amount of matter, such as a single photon, attempted to pass through them. A possible way around this problem is the use of exotic matter to prevent the wormhole from pinching off. 


*A brief history of wormholes* 

The theory of wormholes goes back to 1916, shortly after Einstein published his general theory, when Ludwig Flamm, an obscure Austrian physicist, looked at the simplest possible solution of Einstein's field equations, known as the Schwarzschild solution (or Schwarzschild metric). This describes the gravitational field around a spherically-symmetric non-rotating mass. If the mass is sufficiently compact, the solution describes a particular form of the phenomenon now called a black hole  the Schwarzschild black hole. Flamm realized that Einstein's equations allowed a second solution, now known as a white hole, and that the two solutions, describing two different regions of (flat) spacetime were connected (mathematically) by a spacetime conduit.1 Because the theory has nothing to say about where these regions of spacetime might be in the real world, the black hole "entrance" and white hole "exit" could be in different parts of the same universe or in entirely different universes. 

In 1935, Einstein and Nathan Rosen further explored, it can be appreciated with hindsight, the theory of intra- or inter-universe connections in a paper2 whose actual purpose was to try to explain fundamental particles, such as electrons, in terms of spacetime tunnels threaded by electric lines of force. Their work gave rise to the formal name *Einstein-Rosen bridge* for what the physicist John Wheeler would later call a "wormhole." (Wheeler also coined the terms "black hole" and "quantum foam".) Wheeler's 1955 paper3 discusses wormholes in terms of topological entities called *geons* and, incidentally, provides the first (now familiar) diagram of a wormhole as a tunnel connecting two openings in different regions of spacetime. 





*Traversable wormholes* 





Interest in so-called traversable wormholes gathered pace following the publication of a 1987 paper by Michael Morris, Kip Thorne, and Uri Yertsever (MTY) at the California Institute of Technology.4, 5 This paper stemmed from an inquiry to Thorne by Carl Sagan who was mulling over a way of conveying the heroine in his novel _Contact_ across interstellar distances at trans-light speed. Thorne gave the problem to his Ph.D. students, Michael Morris and Uri Yertsever, who realized that such a journey might be possible if a wormhole could be held open long enough for a spacecraft (or any other object) to pass through. MTY concluded that to keep a wormhole open would require matter with a negative energy density _and_ a large negative pressure  larger in magnitude than the energy density. Such hypothetical matter is called exotic matter.

Although the existence of exotic matter is speculative, a way is known of producing negative energy density: the Casimir effect. As a source for their wormhole, MTY turned to the quantum vacuum. "Empty space" at the smallest scale, it turns out, is not empty at all but seething with violent fluctuations in the very geometry of spacetime. At this level of nature, ultra-small wormholes are believed to continuously wink into and out of existence. MTY suggested that a sufficiently advanced civilization could expand one of these tiny wormholes to macroscopic size by adding energy. Then the wormhole could be stabilized using the Casimir effect by placing two charged superconducting spheres in the wormhole mouths. Finally, the mouths could be transported to widely-separated regions of space to provide a means of FTL communication and travel. For example, a mouth placed aboard a spaceship might be carried to some location many light-years away. Because this initial trip would be through normal spacetime, it would have to take place at sublight speeds. But during the trip and afterwards instantaneous communication and transport through the wormhole would be possible. The ship could even be supplied with fuel and provisions through the mouth it was carrying. Also, thanks to relativistic time-dilation, the journey need not take long, even as measured by Earth-based observers. For example, if a fast starship carrying a wormhole mouth were to travel to Vega, 25 light-years away, at 99.995% of the speed of light (giving a time-dilation factor of 100), shipboard clocks would measure the journey as taking just three months. But the wormhole stretching from the ship to Earth directly links the space and time between both mouths  the one on the ship and the one left behind on (or near) Earth. Therefore, as measured by Earthbound clocks too, the trip would have taken only three months  three months to establish a more-or-less instantaneous transport and communications link between here and Vega. 





Star Trek's Deep Space 9 is located alongside a natural wormhole that leads to the other side of the Galaxy  Of course, the MTY scheme is not without technical difficulties, one of which is that the incredibly powerful forces needed to hold the wormhole mouths open might tear apart anything or anyone that tried to pass through. In an effort to design a more benign environment for travelers using a wormhole, Matt Visser of Washington University in St. Louis conceived an arrangement in which the spacetime region of a wormhole mouth is flat (and thus force-free) but framed by struts of exotic matter that contain a region of very sharp curvature.6 Visser envisages a cubic design, with flat-space wormhole connections on the square sides and cosmic strings as the edges. Each cube-face may connect to the face of another wormhole-mouth cube, or the six cube faces may connect to six different cube faces in six separated locations. 

Given that our technology is not yet up to the task of building a wormhole subway, the question arises of whether they might already exist. One possibility is that advanced races elsewhere in the Galaxy or beyond have already set up a network of wormholes that we could learn to use. Another is that wormholes might occur naturally. David Hochberg and Thomas Kephart of Vandebilt University have discovered that, in the earliest moments of the Universe, gravity itself may have given rise to regions of negative energy in which natural, self-stabilizing wormholes may have formed. Such wormholes, created in the Big Bang, might be around today, spanning small or vast distances in space. 


*References* [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]  

Flamm, L. "Comments on Einstein's theory of gravity," _Physikalische Zeitschrift_, *17*, 48 (1916).
Einstein, A., and Rosen, N. "The Particle Problem in the General Theory of Relativity", _Physical Review_, *48*, 73 (1935)
Wheeler, J. A. "Geons," _Physical Review_, *97*, 511536 (1955).
Morris, M. S, Thorne, K. S., and Yurtsever, U. "Wormholes, time machines, and the weak energy condition," _Phys. Rev. Letters_, *61*, 14461449 (198.
Morris, M. S., and Thorne, K. S. "Wormholes in spacetime and their use for interstellar travel: A tool for teaching general relativity", _Am. J. Phys._, *56*, No. 5, 395412 (198.
Visser, M. "Wormholes, baby universes, and causality", _Phys. Rev. D_, *41*, No. 4, 11161124 (1990).
Hochberg, D. and Visser, M. "Geometric structure of the generic static traversable wormhole throat", _Phys. Rev. D, Phys. Rev_ D56, 4745 (1997).
Maccone, C. "Interstellar travel through magnetic wormholes", _Journal of the British Interplanetary Society_, *48*, No. 11, 453458 (1995).
Visser, M. (1995) _Lorentzian Wormholes  From Einstein to Hawking_, Woodbury, NY: AIP Press (1995).
 [/FONT]


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## Dropastone (Nov 18, 2010)

Discovery News > Space News > Warp Drive Engine Would Travel Faster Than Light *Warp Drive Engine Would Travel Faster Than Light*

*Physicists outline how to manipulate the fabric of space to accelerate a craft faster than the speed of light -- in theory, anyway.*



 By Eric Bland 
Mon Jul 28, 2008 06:33 PM ET 
9 Comments | Leave a Comment PrintEmail 

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The Alcubierre drive, as it's known, involves expanding the fabric of space behind a ship into a bubble and shrinking space-time in front of the ship. 
_www.orbitalvector.com_



It is possible to travel faster than light. You just wouldn't travel faster than light.
Seems strange, but by manipulating extra dimensions with astronomical amounts of energy, two Baylor University physicists have outlined how a faster-than-light engine, or warp drive, could be created that would bend but not break the laws of physics.
"We think we can create an effective warp drive, based on general relatively and string theory," said Gerald Cleaver, coauthor of the paper that recently appeared on the preprint server ArXiv.org
The warp engine is based on a design first proposed in1994 by Michael Alcubierre. The Alcubierre drive, as it's known, involves expanding the fabric of space behind a ship into a bubble and shrinking space-time in front of the ship. The ship would rest in between the expanding and shrinking space-time, essentially surfing down the side of the bubble.
The tricky part is that the ship wouldn't actually move; space itself would move underneath the stationary spacecraft. A beam of light next to the ship would still zoom away, same as it always does, but a beam of light far from the ship would be left behind.
That means that the ship would arrive at its destination faster than a beam of light traveling the same distance, but without violating Einstein's relativity, which says that it would take an infinite amount of energy to accelerate an object with mass to the speed of light, since the ship itself isn't actually moving.
The fabric of space has moved faster than light before, says Cleaver, right after the Big Bang, when the universe expanded faster than the speed of light.
"We're recreating the inflationary period of the universe behind the ship," said Cleaver.
While the theory rests on relatively firm ground, the next question is how do you expand space behind the ship and contract it in front of the ship?
Cleaver and Richard Obousy, the other coauthor, propose manipulating the 11th dimension, a special theoretical construct of m-theory (the offspring of string theory), to create the bubble the ship would surf down.
If the 11th dimension could be shrunk behind the ship it would create a bubble of dark energy, the same dark energy that is causing the universe to speed up as time goes on. Expanding the 11th dimension in front of the ship would eventually cause it to decrease, although two separate steps are required.
Exactly how the 11th dimension would be expanded and shrunk is still unknown.
"These calculations are based on some arbitrary advance in technology or some alien technology that would let us manipulate the extra dimension," said Cleaver.
What the scientists were able to estimate was the amount of energy necessary, if the technology was available, to change these dimensions: about 10^45 joules.
"That's about the amount of energy you'd get if you converted the entire mass of Jupiter into pure energy via E = mc^2," said Cleaver, an energy far beyond anything humanity can currently envision creating.
While the challenges to creating a warp drive are quite formidable, the concept is intriguing, says Tufts University theoretical physicist Lawrence Ford.
"If there are extra dimensions and we could manipulate them, that would open up all sorts of exciting possibilities," said Ford.
"I don't see this leading immediately to a warp drive, but I could see it leading to other interesting possibilities in basic scientific research," said Ford.
Cleaver agrees that the creation of a real warp drive is still far away.
"Warp drive isn't doable now, and probably won't be for the next several millenia," said Cleaver.


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## Dropastone (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm glad I don't have to rely on a great mind such as yours to advance our civilization.

Enough said, I'm done and I won't reply to any more of your nonsense.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 18, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]wormhole[/FONT]* [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Dropastone said:


> Physicists outline how to manipulate the fabric of space to accelerate a craft faster than the speed of light --* in theory*, anyway.
> 
> The Alcubierre drive, as it's known, involves expanding the fabric of space behind a ship into a bubble and shrinking space-time in front of the ship.
> _www.orbitalvector.com_
> ...





Dropastone said:


> I'm glad I don't have to rely on a great mind such as yours to advance our civilization.
> 
> Enough said, I'm done and I won't reply to any more of your nonsense.



Fuck, and you still don't get it...

Thank you for wasting a good 3 or 4 hours of my life, buddy.


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## mindphuk (Nov 18, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> as logical as that all sounds, it ignores history. the first chance we got to put a man on the moon, we did. and it wasn't even really for practical reasons, we just wanted to be able to tell the world we did it first. Pure pride,and nothing else. Not knowing anything about any of the other "races" that exist we can't really understand their motives to say. maybe to them at this point in their development its no big thing. maybe to them we're like some twisted up nature reserve, the subject of a show on their discovery channel equivalent... I can tell you this we as a species aren't content with just sending probes to mars, and there is now an initiative to get men to mars in the next 20 years. so what I'm getting at, is if we right now had the technology to travel to another solar system to study a planet with developing intelligent life, we would do it. So why wouldn't they again? I don't think people will as a race upload themselves to a machine....don't get me wrong, we'll be able to, and some will do it, but you'll never get everyone to, who would watch the servers? now data loss could wipe out hundreds of lives....more dangerous then I think you realize.


 I am looking at history as my guide. We went to the moon, a relatively close place that had been studied from Earth for many years prior to going. We did so mostly because of the Cold War. Every other planet and moon we have visited has been with probes. You mention Mars, a place which we would never visit if our robots didn't go first to give us the detailed information we need. You also appear to attribute human characteristics to an alien species, something that cannot be done. We are a curious race and have what seems like an innate desire to explore. That doesn't mean aliens are going to want to explore, they may only want to visit to obtain resources or conquer inferior species. 
I'm not saying that a species will never travel themselves, I'm saying that in order to determine suitability and give them a reason to go somewhere, a probe will be the one to visit first. Most people cannot really fathom the vastness of space, the distances between stars. There is a LOT of real estate to cover and if any aliens want to check out our solar system over the other million or so choices they have, they would most likely send robotic probes first. Even if they are explorers like us, they have no reason to explore our little outpost on the edge of the galaxy unless they found a particular reason to come here. How are they going to know there's intelligent life here to study from their home world? Like I said, unless they are within 200 light years, they won't have received any radio transmissions yet.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 18, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> I am looking at history as my guide. We went to the moon, a relatively close place that had been studied from Earth for many years prior to going. We did so mostly because of the Cold War. Every other planet and moon we have visited has been with probes. You mention Mars, a place which we would never visit if our robots didn't go first to give us the detailed information we need. You also appear to attribute human characteristics to an alien species, something that cannot be done. We are a curious race and have what seems like an innate desire to explore. That doesn't mean aliens are going to want to explore, they may only want to visit to obtain resources or conquer inferior species.
> I'm not saying that a species will never travel themselves, I'm saying that in order to determine suitability and give them a reason to go somewhere, a probe will be the one to visit first. Most people cannot really fathom the vastness of space, the distances between stars. There is a LOT of real estate to cover and if any aliens want to check out our solar system over the other million or so choices they have, they would most likely send robotic probes first. Even if they are explorers like us, they have no reason to explore our little outpost on the edge of the galaxy unless they found a particular reason to come here. How are they going to know there's intelligent life here to study from their home world? Like I said, unless they are within 200 light years, they won't have received any radio transmissions yet.


Oh I agree they would send a probe FIRST...no doubt, but how long ago could that first probe have been? For at least a century we've been hearing stories of ufo's, the first could have been those probes (many of those stories though we know were bullshit) But I really don't think of all of them were..


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## RavenMochi (Nov 18, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Fuck, and you still don't get it...
> 
> Thank you for wasting a good 3 or 4 hours of my life, buddy.


Seems to me that its the other way around. Your so sure that our understanding of physics is flawless, and I've never heard scientist claim this. And what of Quantum Physics, even now new theories are being developed. Yet still, in your self deluded "infinite wisdom" are sure its impossible, and how its useless to speculate. Yet it was speculating like this that let to the physics you so worship. It was once believed by "scientist" that at 60 miles per hour vehicles/we would be torn apart. As our understanding of physics and technology grew, re realized we were wrong, now we break soundbarriers on a regular basis. For all your talk about your understanding of physics, I think you need to take time reading what scientist are working on now, it would surprise you...


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 19, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Seems to me that its the other way around. Your so sure that our understanding of physics is flawless, and I've never heard scientist claim this. And what of Quantum Physics, even now new theories are being developed. Yet still, in your self deluded "infinite wisdom" are sure its impossible, and how its useless to speculate. Yet it was speculating like this that let to the physics you so worship. It was once believed by "scientist" that at 60 miles per hour vehicles/we would be torn apart. As our understanding of physics and technology grew, re realized we were wrong, now we break soundbarriers on a regular basis. For all your talk about your understanding of physics, I think you need to take time reading what scientist are working on now, it would surprise you...


Dude, you guys simply are not grasping what I'm saying. Listen to me, this is the last time I'm saying it, I'll say it as simple and clearly as possible..

Our understanding of *nothing* is *flawless*. Science does not deal with absolute certainty. No matter how right we think we are about... anything, we could still be wrong. 

I have admitted this since I first understood it, which was in the very beginning of my science education in school.

The point I've been making is that it is pointless to sit here and speculate about how some alien species could reach our planet via theoretical means to current human technology. Not only that, Dropastone has been taking all the stuff he's been thinking up that's all theoretical and determining it's already fact. Then trying to use that as evidence to support the idea that aliens visit Earth. How the hell is that not total nonsense to anyone following along?

Watch, I can do the same thing!

Maybe aliens just warp here, somehow send all the atoms they're built with like in the movie Doom to some receiver on this end, ta-da!

Or howbout if they open up other dimensions and just walk through theirs into ours?!

Oh I know! What about if they just already live on one of Saturn or Jupiter's satellites? Then the trip wouldn't take nearly as long as we've been talking about!

...

....

....... .....

Fuck..

Can you finally see the problem I have with this way of "discussing" this shit?

Pick up where the frustration might come from..? 

I don't mean to be a dick, but fuck guys... Aliens COULD get here a MILLION different ways, I don't give a fuck about that. I'm interested in THE REAL ways WE KNOW they MIGHT get here. FUCK! How hard is that to understand? 

Here, here's another one...

They might be invisible and already be here in our atmosphere, just cloaked all the time and invisible to our radar technology!

Maybe they're renting a room from the lead singer of the band Creed, that Scott guy, they're just laying low for a couple months till shit cools down economically...

Fuck..


lmao, but fuck man... Don't take this personally.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 19, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Dude, you guys simply are not grasping what I'm saying. Listen to me, this is the last time I'm saying it, I'll say it as simple and clearly as possible..
> 
> Our understanding of *nothing* is *flawless*. Science does not deal with absolute certainty. No matter how right we think we are about... anything, we could still be wrong.
> 
> ...


Thats like being able to go back in time to ask Archimedes to explain how people will manage to talk to each other from great distances. You think he would have been like "electrical lines carrying signals over large...etc" No, its would be well past his technological understanding. So in a conversation about intelligent life more advanced then us being able to make the trip, you want a detailed explanation of the technology a race would use to get here. We are not at that level of technological understanding, you dumbshit. That doesn't mean we won't be, we just sure as shit aren't now. And yea, being invisible to radar would be crazy...oh, wait, stealth planes...You knew this was going to be a hypothetical conversation to begin with, if thats a problem for you, then don't participate, how fucking hard is that, seriously?


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## RavenMochi (Nov 19, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Dude, you guys simply are not grasping what I'm saying. Listen to me, this is the last time I'm saying it, I'll say it as simple and clearly as possible..
> 
> Our understanding of *nothing* is *flawless*. Science does not deal with absolute certainty. No matter how right we think we are about... anything, we could still be wrong.
> 
> ...


Actually, most of the time I see your post you seem to be throwing one fit or another. If it frustrates you so, why keep up with it? Or do you just need drama in your life?


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 19, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Thats like being able to go back in time to ask Archimedes to explain how people will manage to talk to each other from great distances. You think he would have been like "electrical lines carrying signals over large...etc" No, its would be well past his technological understanding. So in a conversation about intelligent life more advanced then us being able to make the trip, you want a detailed explanation of the technology a race would use to get here. We are not at that level of technological understanding, *you dumbshit*. That doesn't mean we won't be, we just sure as shit aren't now. And yea, being invisible to radar would be crazy...oh, wait, stealth planes...You knew this was going to be a hypothetical conversation to begin with, if thats a problem for you, then don't participate, how fucking hard is that, seriously?


What did I just tell you at the very end of that last post you quoted man, stop taking things personally. Why are you getting so sensitive. Relax. 

Now, you tell me the benefit of what you both are doing? Where does it get us? 
 


RavenMochi said:


> Actually, most of the time I see your post you seem to be throwing one fit or another. If it frustrates you so, why keep up with it? Or do you just need drama in your life?


You ever see a car accident... yeah, it's like that...


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## RavenMochi (Nov 19, 2010)

I used to be a mobile for a radio station (our sole job was to check out the wrecks and call in with reports, ie lanes blocked, fatality/no, etc) so I don't look at it the same way, When I pass an accident now I don't look, seen enough for 5 lifetimes...

where does it get us? I didn't pay anything, so I don't expect anything. Its a conversation to stay entertained when I have time to login and check what threads have done what. Its like most of what you watch on discovery channel, pick up some useless facts, burn a half hour, and thats about it. I don't sit there afterwards and wonder, "what good was watching that to me?" It was a fleeting entertainment, nothing more....a chance to figure out what other people are thinking on the matter.


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## Tw3nti3ight (Nov 19, 2010)

This plant we all love is ET...

The pot plant is an ALIEN plant. There is physical evidence that cannabis is not like any other plant on this planet. One could conclude that it was brought here for the benefit of humanity. Cannabis is the ONLY plant where the males appear one way and the females appear very different, physically! No one ever speaks of males and females in regard to the plant kingdom because plants do not show their sexes; except for cannabis. To determine what sex a certain, normal, Earthly plant is: You have to look internally, at its DNA. A male blade of grass (physically) looks exactly like a female blade of grass. The hemp plant has an intense sexuallity.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 19, 2010)

If that were true, I would want to kiss the alien that brought it and ask "so, uh...what else ya'll got?"


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 19, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> I used to be a mobile for a radio station (our sole job was to check out the wrecks and call in with reports, ie lanes blocked, fatality/no, etc) so I don't look at it the same way, When I pass an accident now I don't look, seen enough for 5 lifetimes...
> 
> where does it get us? I didn't pay anything, so I don't expect anything. Its a conversation to stay entertained when I have time to login and check what threads have done what. Its like most of what you watch on discovery channel, pick up some useless facts, burn a half hour, and thats about it. I don't sit there afterwards and wonder, "what good was watching that to me?" It was a fleeting entertainment, nothing more....a chance to figure out what other people are thinking on the matter.


Well to me it's a lot bigger than that. I wish I could just sit down and enjoy shit like that but something in my brain wont allow it to happen. 

I know deep down I most likely won't change jack shit about anything typing away my thoughts and opinions, yet here I am. I don't really know what you call that...

Doesn't matter I guess. 

It just bothers me to see otherwise smart people carry such misguided opinions about real world issues that really do mean something. I hear what you're probably thinking right about now all the time... "but dude, you're just thinking too much about it, you're taking it too seriously, just relax and don't worry about any of that, live your life and enjoy it.."... Well, that is my life. Perhaps the problems exist because not enough people _do_ take them seriously... 

Idk man... The world won't end while I'm around so fuck it right? It might, and probably will, get a lot fuckin' worse than it is... Make the most of what you've got.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 19, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Well to me it's a lot bigger than that. I wish I could just sit down and enjoy shit like that but something in my brain wont allow it to happen.
> 
> I know deep down I most likely won't change jack shit about anything typing away my thoughts and opinions, yet here I am. I don't really know what you call that...
> 
> ...


 Okay, what about the conversation do you feel needs to be treated more seriously? Is your concern that if it were us, we would be scoping out the other planet thinking "this shit is about to be ours..."? Is it the fact that the rumors suggest that they've been checking out our nuclear defense facilities?

To answer one of your concerns about the possibility of using worm holes, traversable wormholes, would only be possible if with negative energy density could be used to stabilize them. Which sound like saying "its impossible" only we are learning to make antimatter in a more stable form (apparently at first we were proud to pull of a 10th of second before it was gone, now they won't say, only that it can be measured by a real world clock...) So while I damn sure won't be on the front lines of testing that theory, make no mistake, someone will...


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 19, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Thats like being able to go back in time to ask Archimedes to explain how people will manage to talk to each other from great distances. You think he would have been like "electrical lines carrying signals over large...etc" No, its would be well past his technological understanding. So in a conversation about intelligent life more advanced then us being able to make the trip, you want a detailed explanation of the technology a race would use to get here. We are not at that level of technological understanding, you dumbshit. That doesn't mean we won't be, we just sure as shit aren't now. And yea, being invisible to radar would be crazy...oh, wait, stealth planes...You knew this was going to be a hypothetical conversation to begin with, if thats a problem for you, then don't participate, how fucking hard is that, seriously?





RavenMochi said:


> Okay, what about the conversation do you feel needs to be treated more seriously? Is your concern that if it were us, we would be scoping out the other planet thinking "this shit is about to be ours..."? Is it the fact that the rumors suggest that they've been checking out our nuclear defense facilities?
> 
> To answer one of your concerns about the possibility of using worm holes, traversable wormholes, would only be possible if with negative energy density could be used to stabilize them. Which sound like saying "its impossible" only we are learning to make antimatter in a more stable form (apparently at first we were proud to pull of a 10th of second before it was gone, now they won't say, only that it can be measured by a real world clock...) So while I damn sure won't be on the front lines of testing that theory, make no mistake, someone will...


Just everything man, and not just about this one conversation. 

After reading this thread and observing Dropastones posts, and realizing millions of other Americans think in the exact same way, you have to come to the conclusion that that is a problem. It's scientific illiteracy. I'm not saying that to be a dick, or to be offensive. That's only my opinion, it's like you can't say that without having the other guy automatically take offense. I'm not calling him stupid, or anyone stupid. I'm just saying they are going about thinking about this stuff in the wrong way because reality doesn't work like that. Logical thought processes don't work like that. You can't just think something up then believe it to be true based off whatever "proof" you've assigned to it. It's like people can't understand how that has real world implications..

Like I said man... I just don't know... this stuff is right out in the open, seems obvious to me, I know MP is getting it, people just don't think anymore... You could figure out 99% of the shit you need to know if you just give it a little thought, and people can't seem to do that...


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## RavenMochi (Nov 19, 2010)

But what is it you feel they aren't figuring out. And how was spitting out scientific theory being explored by the scientific minds of our day scientific illiteracy. Not to be a dick, but it seems like that fits you more than anyone. Its like all of these studies happened while you were under a rock...Did you forget that the atomic bomb was once considered only theoretical? What is the wrong way. Please, teach us to think. When I put it that way, sounds kinda pompous, doesn't it? Thats how your coming across. I've gotten through my life figuring out everything I needed to without you telling me how to think. but no, go on oh wise one, what is wrong with out thought process? 

In fact, tell me ANYTHING that you've figured out on your own that flies past the feeble minds of the rest of us....


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 19, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> But what is it you feel they aren't figuring out. And how was spitting out scientific theory being explored by the scientific minds of our day scientific illiteracy. Not to be a dick, but it seems like that fits you more than anyone. Its like all of these studies happened while you were under a rock...Did you forget that the atomic bomb was once considered only theoretical? What is the wrong way. Please, teach us to think. When I put it that way, sounds kinda pompous, doesn't it? Thats how your coming across. I've gotten through my life figuring out everything I needed to without you telling me how to think. but no, go on oh wise one, what is wrong with out thought process?
> 
> In fact, tell me ANYTHING that you've figured out on your own that flies past the feeble minds of the rest of us....


Dude CLEARLY just copy/pasted both those articles without even reading them first, did you see how I dissected it and proved exactly what I said he was doing? The entire thing was speculation. 

And the fact this needs even further explaining is beyond my comprehension, but fuck it, we'll try yet AGAIN... 

When did I ever say theoretical science was useless?

I said speculating on the technologies aliens could have is useless in this discussion. As I said before, they COULD HAVE ANYTHING, are we going to sit here and talk about all the things they could have that we just haven't figured out yet?

Will someone else step in and mediate this shit, because if I'm explaining it in a way that is just impossible to understand, fuckin' tell me, Jesus, let's move past this shit already...

And I'm not telling you how you should think. 

I made an observation that most people these days simply don't think past survival. 

They take it completely for granted. 


If by "the rest of us" you mean a simple majority, that's easy as fuck.

I'm an atheist bro.. lmfao


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## RavenMochi (Nov 19, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I said speculating on the technologies aliens could have is useless in this discussion. As I said before, they COULD HAVE ANYTHING, are we going to sit here and talk about all the things they could have that we just haven't figured out yet?
> I'm an atheist bro.. lmfao


Then why the fuck are you in a thread that has a topic about aliens. What the fuck did you think this discussion was about? EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE THEORETICAL HERE, until you see the news cast saying, "oh shit, they're here..."

And being an atheist has shit to do with this conversation, but thank you for sharing.

As far as the copy paste article, were you really expecting him to go do 10 yrs worth of personal research and come back with what he found? Oh, yea, you wanted him to think about it first. By giving it unaltered from the source he left out the ability for his opinion to contaminate the info.

As far as worm holes, again, not speculation, theory. Not QUITE the same, I can speculate that there is a monkey on the moon, but theory showed the atom bomb was possible before the first detonation.

Again, what have you figured out to talk that much shit? Any grand discovery, anything but being an asshole to contribute to the conversation? Anything at all? Do you contribute, and if so, what?


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## Tw3nti3ight (Nov 19, 2010)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101118/ts_afp/usspaceastronomyeuropegermanychile_20101118204119

Slightly larger than the size of Jupiter....

_*It's Nibiru*_....just have to R/E/A/D/ through the BS to find truth....

So funny how Washington controls what is announced....

I am so pumped!!!


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## Dropastone (Nov 19, 2010)

I want to assure everyone, I do read and watch everything before I post it.

[youtube]hriqvP-RVxc[/youtube]

All great advancements in our society all begin in theory first, then explored. Without theory and speculation were would we be today? For anyone to say that something is just not possible, then they are only fooling themselves.


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## Dropastone (Nov 19, 2010)

[youtube]lw9-ZaoCG5A&feature=fvw[/youtube]


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## Dropastone (Nov 19, 2010)

If you don't have and open mind, then there is no need to watch the videos or read any articles I post. Because in the end you will only deny it's plausibility anyway.

[youtube]AQmi_Be0Xbs&feature=related[/youtube]

For those of you that do have an open mind. 

Enjoy and have a nice day.


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## mindphuk (Nov 19, 2010)

Tw3nti3ight said:


> This plant we all love is ET...
> 
> The pot plant is an ALIEN plant. There is physical evidence that cannabis is not like any other plant on this planet. One could conclude that it was brought here for the benefit of humanity. Cannabis is the ONLY plant where the males appear one way and the females appear very different, physically! No one ever speaks of males and females in regard to the plant kingdom because plants do not show their sexes; except for cannabis. To determine what sex a certain, normal, Earthly plant is: You have to look internally, at its DNA. A male blade of grass (physically) looks exactly like a female blade of grass. The hemp plant has an intense sexuallity.


When you make a claim about something, it would be helpful if you had actual facts to support your position. I have responded to your ridiculous claim previously and I'm sure you will ignore this response too. Cannabis is hardly the only dioecious plant. Here's a list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dioecious_plants 

Here's another helpful point. If we are to find something of extraterrestrial origin, it will have a different method of encoding and passing along genetic information. DNA is the process that evolved on Earth. It is extremely unlikely, probabilities approaching zero, that an alien species will also evolve using DNA using the same four amino acids T, G, C, A. There will be other unique characteristics of alien biology and although will have analogous features, will be unlike anything we have studied to date. Cannabis is most certainly of terrestrial origin and is genetically related to other species of plants including hops and hackberry.


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 19, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Conveniently skipped over the entire rest of my post where I brought up Tysons point about traversing the void of interstellar space only to _crash land_ on Earth...
> 
> That makes perfect sense to you?
> 
> ...


Well what you failed to realize is that i said there are thousands of UFO sightings every year. I don't know if many UFO crash landing sightings lol. There there. You choose to disregard them. Whatever tho obv wont be changin ur mind.


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## mindphuk (Nov 19, 2010)

SOGfarmer said:


> Well what you failed to realize is that i said there are thousands of UFO sightings every year. I don't know if many UFO crash landing sightings lol. There there. You choose to disregard them. Whatever tho obv wont be changin ur mind.


 There are millions of religious miracles; bigfoot and Nessie sightings; claims of healing water, crystals and vortices; instances of telekinesis, clairvoyance and other ESP phenomena reported every year. Do you choose to disregard them?
The thing is, most extraordinary claims are investigated to some extent. This bears repeating because no one seems to acknowledge it but the burden of proof is not on the skeptic. It is up to the proponent of an idea to present the evidence to support that idea. When ufologists are asked to present their best evidence, their cases of sightings that demand a conclusion of extraterrestrial involvement, they routinely come up short. The shear number of sightings is not enough to abandon skeptical, reasonable thinking, especially considering the most sightings can be explained by naturalistic and mundane, not alien, phenomena.


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## doowmd (Nov 19, 2010)

anyone ever heard of this before?: http://www.rense.com/ufo/battleofla.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Los_Angeles


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## Dropastone (Nov 19, 2010)

doowmd said:


> anyone ever heard of this before?: http://www.rense.com/ufo/battleofla.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Los_Angeles
> View attachment 1278863


Yes I do remember hearing about this a very long time ago. Thanks for jogging my memory and bringing it back to my attn.

Peace.


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## crackerboy (Nov 19, 2010)

tardis said:


> Ok, i didn't know thats how you saw things. My host didn't see things that way and i'm limited to his mind (with mine of course of which I got no frame of refrence for reactions). Not true, wormholes plus expressions in both positive, negative, and dark energy (to use your words for the trinity) methods are possible. Wormholes can't be Created by any expression of dark energy (consciousness), but rather they exist in points where bent timespace crosses itself... you see timespace has direction and since the limits of the outerverse put the form like a flower into play the petals begin and start with eachother... think an oval circling into the shape of a flower then add a spiral up (its kinda a universal consistent I figured your time figured out already). Now the times when these spaces cross are set, they are a part of the development of the universe, like a skipping frame within a film. Its ingraned, can't be changed.
> 
> 
> Time travel happens, but we got very very little options to where and when we can go. that last true solid crossing was both approx 6,000 years ago and approx 24,000 years from now.
> ...





ahahahaha, dude should be a writer. Best post on this thread. Funny shit.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 19, 2010)

Then why the fuck are you in a thread that has a topic about aliens. What the fuck did you think this discussion was about? EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE THEORETICAL HERE, until you see the news cast saying, "oh shit, they're here..."

K, continue to be the guy saying "well maybe this, maybe that, prove me wrong!". You'll get nowhere fast. 

And being an atheist has shit to do with this conversation, but thank you for sharing.



RavenMochi said:


> In fact, tell me ANYTHING that you've figured out on your own that flies past the feeble minds of the rest of us....


There ya go.

As far as the copy paste article, were you really expecting him to go do 10 yrs worth of personal research and come back with what he found? Oh, yea, you wanted him to think about it first. By giving it unaltered from the source he left out the ability for his opinion to contaminate the info.

Which isn't at all what I asked for. I made a point that DaS was just bringing up things he'd heard and seen from the movies and that that isn't a very good representation of the reality of science. 

A copy/paste is exactly the same thing. Type "warp drive" into Google, click the first link and that's all there is to it. I'm not interested in that. I wanted him to explain to me how he believes the functioning of these devices would enable aliens to travel faster than light or open up worm holes - aka, reading and understanding more than just the basics, MORE than someone would know from JUST seeing them in the movies. 
 
As far as worm holes, again, not speculation, theory. Not QUITE the same, I can speculate that there is a monkey on the moon, but theory showed the atom bomb was possible before the first detonation.

Theoretical none the less, the point is valid. Human beings can't and do not know how to for sure open up a worm hole. Does this mean I think it's impossible? No.

Again, what have you figured out to talk that much shit? Any grand discovery, anything but being an asshole to contribute to the conversation? Anything at all? Do you contribute, and if so, what?

What is the matter with you? In what part of any of my posts have I "talked shit" to you or anyone? You are misunderstanding - it's that simple.

Grow a pair. 

(that's my way of saying stop being so sensitive, grow a thicker skin, this is the internet, you don't even know me, you've never seen my face, how beneficial is it for you to feel any amount of anger towards me after reading these replies?... Think about that...)
 


SOGfarmer said:


> Well what you failed to realize is that i said there are thousands of UFO sightings every year. I don't know if many UFO crash landing sightings lol. There there. You choose to disregard them. Whatever tho obv wont be changin ur mind.


OK, so your standard for confirming something as fact boils down to sightings?

After reading that, obviously it doesn't, right? (I sure hope not anyway)

So think...

Think about how many sightings of other things there are each year...

Warewolves, Bigfoot, LochNess Monster, God, ghosts, demons, trolls, fairies, leprechauns, the list goes on and on...

How do you determine that UFO's are real, based solely off of the thousands of eyewitness reports from, as mentioned before, uneducated, highly impressionable, highly influenced individuals with preconceived notions of what they think they're seeing?

Why are the UFO's real, but not any of the other things I've listed which also receive just as many sightings as your UFO's? 

Answer that.

(by "real" I mean why do they have to be, and how are you sure they're aliens?)


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## Dropastone (Nov 20, 2010)

[youtube]XlkV1ybBnHI&NR=1[/youtube]


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## Dropastone (Nov 20, 2010)

[youtube]dvPR8T1o3Dc&feature=related[/youtube]


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 20, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Then why the fuck are you in a thread that has a topic about aliens. What the fuck did you think this discussion was about? EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE THEORETICAL HERE, until you see the news cast saying, "oh shit, they're here..."
> 
> K, continue to be the guy saying "well maybe this, maybe that, prove me wrong!". You'll get nowhere fast.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure they're aliens I dont know what they are but I am sure that theyre there. If you can believe in something like big foot or the lockness monster, or anything without having scientific eveidence (ex: religion), especialy since there are thousands of ufo sightings every year and only around 10 or less big foot sightings, than you have to think that there is some chance within this infinite universe that we are not the first little cells to develope into intelligent, somewhat advanced beings. If you deny that possibility than I cannot continue talking to you.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 20, 2010)

SOGfarmer said:


> I'm not sure they're aliens I dont know what they are


FINALLY some progress!!!!!!



SOGfarmer said:


> but I am sure that theyre there. If you can believe in something like big foot or the lockness monster, or anything without having scientific eveidence (ex: religion), especialy since there are thousands of ufo sightings every year and only around 10 or less big foot sightings, than you have to think that there is some chance within this infinite universe that we are not the first little cells to develope into intelligent, somewhat advanced beings. If you deny that possibility than I cannot continue talking to you.


The point was you can't confirm *anything* as fact based solely off sightings, it doesn't matter how many or how few, eyewitness accounts are not scientific evidence.

It's one thing to say that life could develop elsewhere in the universe and another to say that that life could advance to the point of being able to traverse the void of space to reach us. 

You haven't demonstrated how they would do it or why they would come. 

Nothing.


How would an alien species light years away from Earth reach us?

How do you know?

Why would they come?

Why would they hide?

Why would they just show themselves enough to be witnessed, then just vanish never to be seen again?

What is the point of that?


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## mindphuk (Nov 20, 2010)

If in fact aliens have visited us, it is virtually guaranteed that they will NOT appear to look like the Grays or any humanoid appearing shape. Think about it, why would aliens happen to look like us considering the huge diversity just here on Earth, yet the only images we ever see of ET is in the basic bipedal primate body plan. If anyone uses firsthand abduction accounts that describe such creatures as evidence that we have been visited is using extremely flawed information. It is much more likely that these people are experience something else and filling in the blanks with the most culturally current images. Sleep paralysis occurs in a significant portion of our population and many sufferers of this condition report the same type of small human-like creature holding them down in bed. Our ancestors had names for these creatures, the old hag, succubus and other various demons but someone that isn't religious could certainly think it is an extraterrestrial conflating ideas in current popular culture in their unconscious mind. 






http://www.theofantastique.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/855402_f520.jpg


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## RavenMochi (Nov 21, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> FINALLY some progress!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So the only progress you acknowledge is if someone doubts their existence? Your really a troll, aren't you?


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## jrems (Nov 21, 2010)

A "witness" can lock a man away for life in a criminal trial...but a "witness" of a UFO is just plain ignorant or crazy


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 21, 2010)

jrems said:


> A "witness" can lock a man away for life in a criminal trial...but a "witness" of a UFO is just plain ignorant or crazy


Takes 2 witnesses.

"eyewitness accounts might be one of the highest forms of evidence in a court of law, but it is the lowest form of evidence in the court of science" -Niel Tyson


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 21, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> It's one thing to say that life could develop elsewhere in the universe and another to say that that life could advance to the point of being able to traverse the void of space to reach us.
> 
> You haven't demonstrated how they would do it or why they would come.
> 
> ...


 Well at least YOU aknowlege that there may be beings out there but I guess you think that they all get wiped out and die before they become advanced enough to travel space...??? (To combat an argument you might have: The universe has been around for 4.8 billion years and Earth has been here for over 400 million years so you can see how if there are beings out there I am sure there are many (theoretically an infinate amount of) civilizations that came about AT LEAST millions of years before us. 

Oh yeah, let me get out my quantum physics book from 1 million years in the future and tell you HOW they would get here lol. What ever tho man. No changin your mind I'm done.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 21, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Takes 2 witnesses.
> 
> "eyewitness accounts might be one of the highest forms of evidence in a court of law, but it is the lowest form of evidence in the court of science" -Niel Tyson


 The problem isn't the way everyone else thinks, its that your not good with abstract thought. Nay, near incapable of it. We don't look down on you for being....stunted, in this area of your intellectual growth. You and Ray Bradbury would have been great friends. With that said, going into a thread based on a topic demanding abstract thought maybe have been a little much for you to handle, hence your frustration for the "faults in our thinking".


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## MexicanWarlord420 (Nov 21, 2010)

SOGfarmer said:


> Well at least YOU aknowlege that there may be beings out there but I guess you think that they all get wiped out and die before they become advanced enough to travel space...??? (To combat an argument you might have: The universe has been around for 4.8 billion years and Earth has been here for over 400 million years so you can see how if there are beings out there I am sure there are many (theoretically an infinate amount of) civilizations that came about AT LEAST millions of years before us.
> 
> Oh yeah, let me get out my quantum physics book from 1 million years in the future and tell you HOW they would get here lol. What ever tho man. No changin your mind I'm done.


Actually the earth is around 4.5 billion years old and the universe is estimated at 13.75 billion.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 22, 2010)

SOGfarmer said:


> Well at least YOU aknowlege that there may be beings out there but I guess you think that they all get wiped out and die before they become advanced enough to travel space...??? (To combat an argument you might have: The universe has been around for 4.8 billion years and Earth has been here for over 400 million years so you can see how if there are beings out there I am sure there are many (theoretically an infinate amount of) civilizations that came about AT LEAST millions of years before us.
> 
> Oh yeah, let me get out my quantum physics book from 1 million years in the future and tell you HOW they would get here lol. What ever tho man. No changin your mind I'm done.


Take a look at this;

[youtube]MlikCebQSlY[/youtube]



RavenMochi said:


> The problem isn't the way everyone else thinks, its that your not good with abstract thought. Nay, near incapable of it. We don't look down on you for being....stunted, in this area of your intellectual growth. You and Ray Bradbury would have been great friends. With that said, going into a thread based on a topic demanding abstract thought maybe have been a little much for you to handle, hence your frustration for the "faults in our thinking".


OK, like I said before, continue to be the guy saying "well they could come this way, they could come that way.." I'll continue to be the guy using skeptical thinking and logical thought.

If you seriously think ALIENS from another planet have come to Earth, then you have to demonstrate HOW they MIGHT have came, holy shit, does that mean you might have to use some "abstract thought"!?, and WHY they might have came. 

None of you motherfuckers spouting off UFO sightings as ALIENS FROM ANOTHER PLANET have done either.

And I'm not surprised.
 


MexicanWarlord420 said:


> Actually the earth is around 4.5 billion years old and the universe is estimated at 13.75 billion.


Beat me to it!


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## Dropastone (Nov 22, 2010)

*Here's more cut and paste for everyone.*

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24793/

**

*The Drake Equation for the Multiverse*

The famous Drake equation *estimates* the number of intelligent civilizations in the Milky Way. A new approach asks how many might exist in the entire multiverse.
kfc 02/10/2010


10 Comments
 









In 1960, the astronomer Frank Drake devised an equation for estimating the number of intelligent civilizations in our galaxy. He did it by breaking down the problem into a hierarchy of various factors. 

He *suggested* that the total number of intelligent civilizations in the Milky Way depends first on the rate of star formation. He culled this number by *estimating* the fraction of these stars with rocky planets, the fraction of those planets that can and do support life and the fraction of these that go on to support intelligent life capable of communicating with us. The result is this equation:






which is explained in more detail in this Wikipedia entry.

*Today, Marcelo Gleiser at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire points out that cosmology has moved on since the 1960s*. One of the most provocative new ideas is that the universe we see is one of many, possibly one of an infinite number. One line of thinking is that the laws of physics may be very different in these universes and that carbon-based life could only have arisen in those where conditions were fine-tuned in a particular way. This is the anthropic principle.

*Consequently, says Gleiser, the Drake Equation needs updating to take the multiverse and the extra factors it introduces into account.* 
He begins by considering the total set of universes in the multiverse and defines the subset in which the parameters and fundamental constants are compatible with the anthropic principle. This is the subset {_c_-_cosmo_}. 

He then considers the subset of these universes in which astrophysical conditions are ripe for star and galaxy formation {_c-astro}. _Next he looks at the subset of these in which planets form that are capable of harbouring life {_c-life_}. And finally he defines the subset of these in which complex life actually arises {_c-complex life_}. 

Then the conditions for complex life to emerge in a particular universe in the multiverse must satisfy the statement at the top of this post (where the composition symbol denotes 'together with').

But there's a problem: this is not an equation. To form a true Drake-like argument, Gleiser would need to assign probabilities to each of these sets allowing him to write an equation in which the assigned probabilities multiplied together, on one side of the equation, equal the fraction of universes where complex life emerges on the other side.

Here he comes up against one of the great problems of modern cosmology--that without evidence to back up their veracity, many ideas in modern cosmology are little more than philosophy. So assigning a probability to the fraction of universes in the multiverse in which the fundamental constants and laws satisfy the anthropic principle is not just hard, but almost impossible to formulate at all.

Take {_c-cosmo_} for example. Gleiser points out a few of the obvious parameters that would need to taken into account in deriving a probability. These are the vacuum energy density, matter-antimatter asymmetry, dark matter density, the couplings of the four fundamental forces and the masses of quarks and leptons so that hadrons and then nuclei can form after electroweak symmetry breaking. Try assigning a probability to that lot.

Neither is it much easier for {c-astro}. This needs to take into account the fact that heavy elements seem to be important for the emergence of life which only seem to occur in galaxies above a certain mass and in stars of a certain type and age. Estimating the probability of these conditions occurring is still beyond astronomers.

At first glance, the third set {c-life} ought to be easier to handle. This must take into account the planetary and chemical constraints on the formation of life. The presence of liquid water and various elements such as carbon, oxygen and nitrogen seem to be important as do more complex molecules. How common these conditions are, we don't yet know.

Finally there is {_c-complex life_}, which includes all the planetary factors that must coincide for complex life to emerge. These may include long term orbital stability, the presence of a magnetic field to protect delicate biomolecules, plate tectonics, a large moon and so on. That's not so easy to estimate either.

Many people have tried to put the numbers into Drake's equation. The estimates for the number of intelligent civilisations in the Milky Way ranges from one (ours) to countless tens of thousands. Drake himself put the number at 10. 

Gleiser's take on the Drake equation for the Multiverse is an interesting approach. What it tells us, however, is that our limited understanding of the universe today does not allow us to make any reasonable estimate of the number of intelligent lifeforms in the multiverse (more than one). And given the limits on what we can ever know about other universes, it's likely that we'll never be able to do much better than that.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 22, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> *Here's more cut and paste for everyone.*
> 
> http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24793/
> 
> ...


 You know that article is over his head, right?


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## RavenMochi (Nov 22, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Take a look at this;
> 
> [youtube]MlikCebQSlY[/youtube]
> 
> ...


Logical thought? With the shear numbers of stars and solar systems, the fact it seems like something that needs to be proven to you doesnt' say much for your grasp on out technological level, but also that you don't do well with numbers either. If I was alive in the 70's I would have known nothing of the doppler 2000 system, nor would have I had a clue as to how to predict weather with that accuracy. But the U.S. Military was already using it, and when hit became obsolete it hit the civilian world. We have decommissioned records showing that government agencies have made hiding "classified" information from the public common practice. If it helps you sleep at night, no there is no life on other planets, and the life there is couldn't never find they're way here. But honestly, the odds aren't in your favor. Your idea of logic is wanting, and I'm getting the impression you didn't even graduate high school. I can feel myself getting stupider just conversing with you, so yea, I'm done...have fun.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 22, 2010)

Logical thought? With the shear numbers of stars and solar systems, the fact it seems like something that needs to be proven to you doesnt' say much for your grasp on out technological level, but also that you don't do well with numbers either. 

You're just confused. I never said aliens don't exist. I believe aliens DO exist. I just don't believe they've visited the Earth. You think they have, or are defending the position that they have, based off information I explained to you that wouldn't hold up as scientific proof. 

If it helps you sleep at night, no there is no life on other planets, and the life there is couldn't never find they're way here. But honestly, the odds aren't in your favor. Your idea of logic is wanting, and I'm getting the impression you didn't even graduate high school. I can feel myself getting stupider just conversing with you, so yea, I'm done...have fun.

Well, at least this "high school dropout" knows not to use double negatives in a proper English sentence... But maybe that's something they don't teach you in school... I guess I wouldn't know.. 

-you make an outrageous claim and back it up with what amounts to nothing in regards to scientific proof 

-your standard of evidence doesn't meet the scientific requirement

-using your logic, you must also accept that Bigfoot and all the other things witnessed by people over the world are real, as you fail to understand why eyewitness testimony alone isn't *scientific proof*


I'm sorry man, I just don't know how to make it any more clear than that...


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## RavenMochi (Nov 22, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Logical thought? With the shear numbers of stars and solar systems, the fact it seems like something that needs to be proven to you doesnt' say much for your grasp on out technological level, but also that you don't do well with numbers either.
> 
> You're just confused. I never said aliens don't exist. I believe aliens DO exist. I just don't believe they've visited the Earth. You think they have, or are defending the position that they have, based off information I explained to you that wouldn't hold up as scientific proof.
> 
> ...


What part of "I'm done." was hard for you to understand? Should have expected as much. 
Did I use double negatives? Yes. Did I know better? Yes. Do I think your worth the consideration? No.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 22, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> What part of "I'm done." was hard for you to understand? Should have expected as much.
> Did I use double negatives? Yes. Did I know better? Yes. Do I think your worth the consideration? No.


 You didn't really contribute much anyway, so I guess it's cool. Take care.


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## Ronjohn7779 (Nov 22, 2010)

I'd believe in sea people living in the oceans before I believed in aliens visiting earth. To truly travel what most people consider as "space travel; you'd have to master what is in reality called space-time (i.e. being in the same space at the same time, its pretty weird to think you can be in the same place but in a different time, or a different place in the same time). To master space time you'd have to have a meta-understanding of the multiverse, dimensions, time and space, the effects of gravity, the timing of planetary orbits, magnetism, and various other things (i.e. gravity may work differently in other parts of the universe than it does here or in other dimensions). Gravity is what scientists call a unusually weak force. Scientifically speaking gravity should be stronger and about as strong as magnetism yet a small magnet on Earth defies gravity. You'd need to master that understanding meaning you'd have to travel the entire universe to safely travel.

Another thing to consider is distance. The distance in our solar system is huge (it would take most of your lifetime to travel it at several thousands of miles per hour)...then you take into account the size of our galaxy (it takes 126,000,000,000 years for our sun to orbit the galaxy), and then you take into account how far our nearest star other than the sun which is 400-700 or so light years away...It starts to become totally unbelievable that something could visit this planet let alone detect it. The Earth is dark matter that emits little to no light other than what it reflects. It's mass is too small to effect the sun's elliptical orbit (detecting the Earth's effects on the sun would only be possible at close range i.e. a few million or so light years, beyond that you wouldn't know it existed). 

Surprising life is a very random process. Most solar systems have 2 suns (which have crazy radiation and xray effects making life impossible), some don't have terrestrial plants like earth, and sometimes planets are just too close to their sun for life to exist as we know it. Having a single sun/star solar system is incredibly rare, even when you take the vastness of space and the universe into consideration.


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## doowmd (Nov 22, 2010)

[video]




[/video]


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## Hydrotech364 (Nov 22, 2010)

I've been watching alot of Nat Geo and History and the fucking proof is there.The Japanese have documents that tell the story of how they were taught by them.Makes ya feel really small.Short timespan so we need to do alot with what time we have.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 22, 2010)

Another thing to consider is distance. The distance in our solar system is huge (it would take most of your lifetime to travel it at several thousands of miles per hour)...then you take into account the size of our galaxy (it takes 126,000,000,000 years for our sun to orbit the galaxy), and then you take into account how far our nearest star other than the sun which is 400-700 or so light years away...It starts to become totally unbelievable that something could visit this planet let alone detect it. The Earth is dark matter that emits little to no light other than what it reflects. It's mass is too small to effect the sun's elliptical orbit (detecting the Earth's effects on the sun would only be possible at close range i.e. a few million or so light years, beyond that you wouldn't know it existed). 

Proxima Centauri is the closest star at 4.24 light years from the Sun.

It would take a being going light speed just over 4 years to reach the Earth from the Centauri star system.

Also, there are a few different ways scientists have of detecting plants light years away, to name a few;

-Radial Velocity
-Pulsar Timing
-Transit Method (TTV & TDV)
-Gravitational Microlensing
-Direct Imaging

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methods_of_detecting_extrasolar_planets
 
Surprising life is a very random process. Most solar systems have 2 suns (which have crazy radiation and xray effects making life impossible), some don't have terrestrial plants like earth, and sometimes planets are just too close to their sun for life to exist as we know it. Having a single sun/star solar system is incredibly rare, even when you take the vastness of space and the universe into consideration.

I'm not sure if it's accurate to say single star systems are incredible rare.

Most exoplanets I know about orbit one star.


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## Hydrotech364 (Nov 22, 2010)

Maybe they should be using some Roswell Tech,Matter antimatter.Retire our fleet of antiques.


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## guy incognito (Nov 23, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Thats like being able to go back in time to ask Archimedes to explain how people will manage to talk to each other from great distances. You think he would have been like "electrical lines carrying signals over large...etc" No, its would be well past his technological understanding. So in a conversation about intelligent life more advanced then us being able to make the trip, you want a detailed explanation of the technology a race would use to get here. We are not at that level of technological understanding, you dumbshit. That doesn't mean we won't be, we just sure as shit aren't now. And yea, being invisible to radar would be crazy...oh, wait, stealth planes...You knew this was going to be a hypothetical conversation to begin with, if thats a problem for you, then don't participate, how fucking hard is that, seriously?


There is a big difference between ignorance of how something works, and knowing it's limitations. Not knowing how people could communicate long distances just shows he didn't understand the physics yet, not that it specifically violated the laws of nature as he knew them. I think interstellar travel is fundamentally different in this respect. It's not that we are saying "oh gee willickers thats a super long distance, no one will ever have that technology!". It's more like "That's a near inconceivable distance, and the time required to traverse it at the cosmic speed limit (which we have lots and lots of evidence to suggest it is in fact the cosmic speed limit, and none to support it's not) will be astronomical not only in comparison to a single organisms life, but of entire cultures and species as we know it." 

As much as I would like it to happen, I just don't think it's a reality. It's just not gonna be possible regardless of how much time and technology you have.


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## Red Robin (Nov 23, 2010)

aliens landed on Earth thousand years ago and interbreeded their race with ours. Those people where the myans, the alien tought them everything.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 23, 2010)

It goes way back, farther then they Mayans.
Monolithic cities existed over 10,000 years ago!
There have been at least 200 found on the ocean floor in recent history.


*Truth is........
Humans are alien hybrids, and dinosaurs still exist. They are what we know of today as, birds.*


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## Red Robin (Nov 23, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> It goes way back, farther then they Mayans.
> Monolithic cities existed over 10,000 years ago!
> There have been at least 200 found on the ocean floor in recent history.
> 
> ...


I just watch History channel, When im stoned. Im not an Ancient Alien Theorist, Just a pot head.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 23, 2010)

Red Robin said:


> I just watch History channel, When im stoned.


 Me too. I'm only stoned, when I'm breathing.


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## Red Robin (Nov 23, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> Me too. I'm only stoned, when I'm breathing.


ahh man, not me, my high is usually gone by the time I wake up in the morning, then I have to smoke again. But if I never slept I could be like you and be high literally 24/7. I stay high about 21/7


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 23, 2010)

MexicanWarlord420 said:


> Actually the earth is around 4.5 billion years old and the universe is estimated at 13.75 billion.


What he said lol


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 23, 2010)

I lied I'm not done but I am done w pandabear. Cant get this guy outta his little bubble of reality. Anyways, watch this video. Theres a few parts but if you arn't like pandabear and you believe that there is a possibility of an eye witness account being right, then this guy could blow your fuckin mind. Or at least make you think a little more lol. BY POSTING THIS VIDEO I AM NOT SYAING THAT I THINK THIS VIDEO IS THE TRUTH IN ANYWAY. That being said, if this guy is telling the truth, GODDAMNMUTHAFUCKA!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhK3Os_eE4g&feature=channel


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## SOGfarmer (Nov 23, 2010)

And somewhere in there pandabear he talks about how they got to earth. Not saying you would give it credit anyways but basically they have such an almost perfect understanding of the universe and are so advanced that they are connected to their vehicles in a way that allows them to somehow "think" about where in space, and time they want to go, and go there. I put think in quotations because, just like speech and intelligence, the way you "think" would evolve and change into something a little diferent i assume after millions of years, as well as every other function of the physical and mental parts of your body. Also your basic makeup would be much different if you were from a different planet I'm gettin off topic watch the videos though theyre pretty crazy. Pandabear Nor Response Neccessary.


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## mindphuk (Nov 23, 2010)

SOGfarmer said:


> I lied I'm not done but I am done w pandabear. Cant get this guy outta his little bubble of reality. Anyways, watch this video. Theres a few parts but if you arn't like pandabear and you believe that there is a possibility of an eye witness account being right, then this guy could blow your fuckin mind. Or at least make you think a little more lol. BY POSTING THIS VIDEO I AM NOT SYAING THAT I THINK THIS VIDEO IS THE TRUTH IN ANYWAY. That being said, if this guy is telling the truth, GODDAMNMUTHAFUCKA!!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhK3Os_eE4g&feature=channel


http://www.ufowatchdog.com/burischdirtbag.htm


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## Viagro (Nov 23, 2010)

It's pretty obvious they exist, but I don't think they are necessarily alien. Cryptoterrestrial, more likely. And they must be fond of the dank, 'cause I'm sure some are members of RIU.


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## Viagro (Nov 23, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> It goes way back, farther then they Mayans.
> Monolithic cities existed over 10,000 years ago!
> There have been at least 200 found on the ocean floor in recent history.
> 
> ...


You got to go back farther than that. Check out- *Göbekli Tepe: The World's Oldest Temple?* 







_A 12,000-year-old Temple Complex_

more


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## doowmd (Nov 23, 2010)

[video]http://www.disclose.tv/members/action/viewvideo/58297/Time_Traveller_Caught_on_1928_Charlie_Chaplin_Film/[/video]


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## Sure Shot (Nov 23, 2010)

Viagro said:


> You got to go back farther than that. Check out- *Göbekli Tepe: The World's Oldest Temple?* http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2010/10oct/RIR-101012.php


That's amazing!
Thanks for the info.
But, that is the same time frame in which I was suggesting!


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## Dropastone (Nov 23, 2010)

doowmd said:


> [video]
> 
> 
> 
> ...





doowmd said:


> [video]http://www.disclose.tv/members/action/viewvideo/58297/Time_Traveller_Caught_on_1928_Charlie_Chaplin_Film/[/video]


Just to let you know, the first link don't work and the second link asks for log in first.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 23, 2010)

SOGfarmer said:


> And somewhere in there pandabear he talks about how they got to earth. Not saying you would give it credit anyways but basically they have such an almost perfect understanding of the universe and are so advanced that they are connected to their vehicles in a way that allows them to somehow "think" about where in space, and time they want to go, and go there. I put think in quotations because, just like speech and intelligence, the way you "think" would evolve and change into something a little diferent i assume after millions of years, as well as every other function of the physical and mental parts of your body. Also your basic makeup would be much different if you were from a different planet I'm gettin off topic watch the videos though theyre pretty crazy. Pandabear Nor Response Neccessary.


Apparently were right now evolving, with google...Yea, go figure. Not just google, apparently any search engine. You can google it, but studies have been showing that spending time on a search engine has about the same effect as mind/memory games they have the elderly play to stave off Alzheimers, in that in the process your brain is creating neural networks. Like crossword puzzles, they noticed increased activity in the verbal/reading part of the brain, but with search engines they were noticing new neural networks being created in the decision part of our brain as well. Basically, the advent of everyone having the internet is causing our brains to "shape up" to take in the wealth of information held on the internet. In other words, twenty years from now the average brain will have alot more going on then current.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 23, 2010)

Also, I wasn't going to put this on here for pad, but check this out
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/science/03teleportation.html
its outlining a discovery related to teleportation. Not that they think they will get there, but I think they say that because they know they would lose credibility by even entertaining the theory. Though, honestly, I would be surprised if they could pull it off in the next 50 years...


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## Dropastone (Nov 23, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> That's amazing!
> Thanks for the info.
> But, that is the same time frame in which I was suggesting!


I agree, thanks for pointing that out.


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## RawBudzski (Nov 23, 2010)

Yes but dont forget the NEGATIVE things that can come from someone who say, SITs at the Comp all day.. watches TV all day. The bad outcomes would outweigh the good ones.. You have a Good Point. But I Could See Some1 Who Sits at the Comp all day using that as an excuse. If your on the Comp as MUCH as you WORK OUT, GET OUTSIDE, EAT RIGHT then it cant HURT.. but if you being on the COMP > MORE THAN ALL THE OTHERS.. Your not Evolving 



RavenMochi said:


> Apparently were right now evolving, with google...Yea, go figure. Not just google, apparently any search engine. You can google it, but studies have been showing that spending time on a search engine has about the same effect as mind/memory games they have the elderly play to stave off Alzheimers, in that in the process your brain is creating neural networks. Like crossword puzzles, they noticed increased activity in the verbal/reading part of the brain, but with search engines they were noticing new neural networks being created in the decision part of our brain as well. Basically, the advent of everyone having the internet is causing our brains to "shape up" to take in the wealth of information held on the internet. In other words, twenty years from now the average brain will have alot more going on then current.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 23, 2010)

RawBudzski said:


> Yes but dont forget the NEGATIVE things that can come from someone who say, SITs at the Comp all day.. watches TV all day. The bad outcomes would outweigh the good ones.. You have a Good Point. But I Could See Some1 Who Sits at the Comp all day using that as an excuse. If your on the Comp as MUCH as you WORK OUT, GET OUTSIDE, EAT RIGHT then it cant HURT.. but if you being on the COMP > MORE THAN ALL THE OTHERS.. Your not Evolving


actually, not true, not in the least. Let me explain, I will agree that its important to not neglect your physical body. It needs to eat right, be worked out, etc. But the brain would evolve, the one downside to mental development is focus. Now, would they in every way be better than say our grandfather? No, not in physical endurance by any means,but they'll evolve to be smarter. Don't mistake evolving for improving, evolving is streamlining to adapt to current conditions. People are out of shape now simply because they CAN be. If you had to work the farm and churn the butter all day, your body is going to adapt to that.


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## Dropastone (Nov 23, 2010)

RavenMochi said:


> Also, I wasn't going to put this on here for pad, but check this out
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/science/03teleportation.html
> its outlining a discovery related to teleportation. Not that they think they will get there, but I think they say that because they know they would lose credibility by even entertaining the theory. Though, honestly, I would be surprised if they could pull it off in the next 50 years...


very interesting my friend.


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## RavenMochi (Nov 23, 2010)

though honestly, now that I understand the teleportation theory more, it creeps me out. I thought they were trying to accelerate your particles to point b, but they're not, they want to make copy you, create a new you at point b, and destroy the original...Thats just fucking creepy, I wouldn't agree to that. I WOULD however let them create a me on the other side of the galaxy...I'm all about letting another version of me represent me, jut not BE me...


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## Hydrotech364 (Nov 23, 2010)

Dial me back to 19 with what I know now.That would be a helluva ride.


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## Viagro (Nov 23, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> That's amazing!
> Thanks for the info.
> But, that is the same time frame in which I was suggesting!


Maybe so, but this is the oldest definitive archeological site of its sort. There's much speculation about the underwater evidence, at this point. And nobody knows how far back the culture that spawned Gobekli Tepe originated.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 23, 2010)

There is speculation that gravity exist as well. That's why it's still a theory.
Here is one example of an underwater monument.
Possibly, twice as old as the Pyramids of Egypt.



Tool marks and carvings have been discovered upon the stones (and documented) which indicate that they have were constructed rather than being natural stone structures.


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## Viagro (Nov 23, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> There is speculation that gravity exist as well. That's why it's still a theory.
> Here is one example of an underwater monument.
> Possibly, twice as old as the Pyramids of Egypt.
> 
> ...


I think you mistook my drift, I don't doubt their veracity, but there is no specific analysis as of yet.

And your gravity analogy is a bit lame, but I'm fascinated as anyone with the underwater discoveries.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 23, 2010)

Viagro said:


> And your gravity analogy is a bit lame, ..


 Bruise your pride a bit? That's when insults come in.
But, pride is like a blurry lens, making clarity impossible.
As is, trying to gauge emotion over text fails, often.(I should use more Emoticons)
Hence the true saying,"It's not what you say, but how you say it."
I wish no ill will, my original intent was solely to open people to new ideas and new discoveries.

As far as the Gravity Theory goes. I believe it was an excellent parallel.
You see, for the larger part society believes in gravity and stays away from tall ledges.
But, there has always been religous fanatics believing it's God's will alone keeping us on this rock, a few even thought they could fly if they believed enough.
The same goes for the Ancient Alien theory. Let's say aliens parked in our skies tomorrow.
The larger mass will most likely be able to wake up, and make the connections already laid out by few.
But, others will believe their Gods have returned. Still others will believe the Devil has brought demons.


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## Nice Ol Bud (Nov 23, 2010)

Definalty, Were Not The Only Ones..


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## Viagro (Nov 23, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> Bruise your pride a bit? That's when insults come in.
> But, pride is like a blurry lens, making clarity impossible.
> As is, trying to gauge emotion over text fails, often.(I should use more Emoticons)
> Hence the true saying,"It's not what you say, but how you say it."
> ...


Belief has nothing to do with fact. And no, you didn't bruise my pride. I'm dispassionate in this sort of discussion. You seem a bit touchy, and I'm sorry for that, but I't seems I'm forced to keep explaining what I mean.

And I still don't think Aliens are necessarily alien. I think they may be as much Earthling as we. Or, at least have been around longer.


Gravity is not a theory, it's just not fully understood. And my comment wasn't intended as an insult, just being frank.

(edit correction to change was to wasn't)


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## Sure Shot (Nov 23, 2010)

Viagro said:


> Gravity is not a theory, it's just not fully understood. And my comment wasn't intended as an insult, just being frank.
> 
> (edit correction to change was to wasn't)


Wrong, Frank. Gravity is a theory, and there is more then one theory on it.

*Recent alternative theories*



Brans&#8211;Dicke theory of gravity (1961)
Induced gravity (1967), a proposal by Andrei Sakharov according to which general relativity might arise from quantum field theories of matter
In the modified Newtonian dynamics (MOND) (1981), Mordehai Milgrom proposes a modification of Newton's Second Law of motion for small accelerations
The self-creation cosmology theory of gravity (1982) by G.A. Barber in which the Brans-Dicke theory is modified to allow mass creation
Nonsymmetric gravitational theory (NGT) (1994) by John Moffat
Tensor-vector-scalar gravity (TeVeS) (2004), a relativistic modification of MOND by Jacob Bekenstein
Gravity as an entropic force, gravity arising as an emergent phenomenon from the thermodynamic concept of entropy.


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## Viagro (Nov 23, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> Wrong Frank. Gravity is a theory, and there is more then one theory on it.
> 
> *Recent alternative theories*
> 
> ...


I didn't say there weren't theories attempting to explain gravity. I said that gravity is not a theory. Much like the electricity that powers your computer isn't fully understood, but is no theory.

Very different. You are mixing concepts.

I'm done. Cheers!


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## Sure Shot (Nov 23, 2010)

Viagro said:


> I didn't say there weren't theories attempting to explain gravity. I said that gravity is not a theory.


 Ever heard of an oxymoron?


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## mistaphuck (Nov 23, 2010)

medicinaluseonly said:


> Anyone that doesn't believe in life on other planets, is missing quite a few brain cells. Even if you believe that life started in tidepools and we crawled out of the swamps and eventually walked on two legs (why are there still apes on this planet if we descended from them), you would almost have to agree that with billions of planets out there, there could be life on them. Now take the fact that the universe is billions of years old, is it not possible that on another planet somewhere in the universe, an intelligent species evolved, or was created some time before our world was habitable, and these beings having millions-billions of years head start on us, could have the capacity to visit our world. I'm sure they're curious about us like we're curious about the dinosaurs, plus we're much more interesting because we have shit to blow things up and maybe cause a catastrophe in the universe. If you don't believe in extra-terrestials, you must be brain dead. Of course the powers that be, don't want you believing in such things, how dare we think there might be some being more intelligent than our leaders. Nope I've never seen one, although to be honest, on a two year sabbatical in the wilderness of Arizona, I saw quite a few U.F.O.s, remember what a UFO is: an unidentified flying object, I saw a few that did things that no known terrestial object could achieve.


 damn this is an old post but ignorance must be confronted no matter what, there are still apes because they just took a different evolutionary path, this happens all the time, just look at the congo river, where the currents are so strong populations of fish get separated from each other and are unable to breed thus a new evolutionary path is created, the apes we know now are also evolved, they didn't just stay the same and we split off, they are genetically different from they're distant ancestors just as we are, they just were never confronted with the needs and difficulties we were. this is not pokemon, things can evolve and leave un-evolved counterparts behind, its all about natural selection, in some places being an tree dwelling ape is a more successful means of survival than being a bi-pedal surface dweller.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 23, 2010)

Nice info on some underwater discoveries here.


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## mindphuk (Nov 23, 2010)

Gravity in loose terms is both theory and fact. There is a fact that bodies with mass attract each other. Scientific theories are merely models for how we see reality work. They attempt to offer explanation in terms of mechanism and/or offer a model of the effects of the force. Newton gave us the law of gravitation, not called a theory because it merely gave us the ability to calculate effects which was determined by observation. He never proposed a mechanism as to what causes gravity. Einstein came in and gave us a reason that objects appear to be attracted. He also refined the Newtonian equation to fit within this new paradigm. The idea that objects are pushed toward each other due to the bending of spacetime is in fact a theory because it attempts to give an explanation of why gravitation appears to exist. No one in science seriously disputes that gravity is a real force. This is parallel to evolution, something which actually occurs in nature. Darwin's theory of natural selection is the proposed mechanism (along with mutation) to explain why and how things evolve, something that was evident and mostly accepted even before Darwin. No serious scientist doubts evolution takes place which is why the evolution vs. creation debates are ridiculous. They aren't attempting to disprove Darwin's idea of how evolution occurs but actually dispute the fact of evolution, something akin to disputing gravitation occurs.


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## doowmd (Nov 25, 2010)

@ sureshot: nice link man, thanks! Won't let me rep ya again, but i put it in the "file cabinet" to do later! never been to that 'rabbithole' website....got any more links to sites like that? the only one I go to (semi-regular) is disclose.tv

@mindphuk: you are deep man. and I appreciate your input on everything that you've contributed to this thread. I don't think (some) people debate whether or not evolution occurs, I think what's debatable is whether or not human's 'evolved' from apes/monkey's/ or what-have-you. My college Biology Prof. REFUSED to teach evolution. Which I found rather odd. But he wouldn't delve into creation either. Nor would my Western Civ. (up to 164 Prof.! See....that's the problem: we've got all of these "brilliant minds" that can tell us what didn't happen, but none are brave enough to try and explain what DID!! I know it would just be speculation anyway.....but you see where I'm coming from? 
btw: I repped you for your posts too midphuck!


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## Sure Shot (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks.Here's a couple I know of.


http://www.xfacts.com/x2.htm
http://www.realufos.net/


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## Sure Shot (Nov 25, 2010)

Read more here.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 25, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> View attachment 1289294
> 
> Read more here.


"The first calculations of the age of the calendar were made based on the rise of Orion, a constellation known for its three bright stars forming the "belt" of the mythical hunter."

I don't think I'm being critical when I say that doesn't sound very scientific to me at all. 

These scientists are basing the age of these monoliths off of the precession of the Earths tilt in conjunction with the Orion constellation. 

This is where other branches of science come into play to help answer the new questions that arise.

How do they know whoever placed the stones did it at the same time the constellation was in that exact position? Just because it seems to line up? Like I said before, that isn't scientific, it's inconclusive, we need more.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 25, 2010)

" But new and more precise measurements kept increasing the age. The next calculation was presented by a master archaeoastronomer who wishes to remain anonymous for fear of ridicule by the academic fraternity. His calculation was also based on the rise of Orion and suggested an age of at least 75,000 years. *The most recent and most acurate calculation, done in June 2009, suggests an age of at least 160,000 years, based on the rise of Orion -- flat on the horizon -- but also on the erosion of dolerite stones found at the site."*


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 25, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> " But new and more precise measurements kept increasing the age. The next calculation was presented by a master archaeoastronomer who wishes to remain anonymous for fear of ridicule by the academic fraternity. His calculation was also based on the rise of Orion and suggested an age of at least 75,000 years. *The most recent and most acurate calculation, done in June 2009, suggests an age of at least 160,000 years, based on the rise of Orion -- flat on the horizon -- but also on the erosion of dolerite stones found at the site."*


 
There is a reason they don't use more accurate measurements, and it isn't because brush fires are common in the area bro.

Chemical samples CAN be taken and measured to within +/- 3%. 

Erosion of stones is also inconclusive, you would need something to compare it to, you'd need to know exactly how fast that particular stone eroded, wind speeds over time, a bunch of stuff. Point is the degree in error with that method is much higher than +/- 3%, which I suspect is why it was used.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 25, 2010)

"you'd need to know exactly how fast that particular stone eroded, wind speeds over time, a bunch of stuff." 




"Some pieces of the marker stones had been broken off and sat on the ground, exposed to natural erosion. When the pieces were put back together about 3 cm of stone had already been worn away. These calculation helped assess the age of the site by calculating the erosion rate of the dolerite."


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 25, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> "you'd need to know exactly how fast that particular stone eroded, wind speeds over time, a bunch of stuff."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



...maybe I'll go read the rest of that link..

What's your opinion about the dating method they're primarily using? The precession method.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 25, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> ...maybe I'll go read the rest of that link..
> 
> What's your opinion about the dating method they're primarily using? The precession method.


I honestly wouldn't be completely satisfied unless there was a signed, "born on date".
But we got to go with what we got, and always be willing to let the evidence lead the way.
Your right to be skeptical. I'm really interested in the mining site, and what evidence, and or theories that come from it.
It's supposed to be the largest deposit of gold on Earth, according to claims.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 25, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> I honestly wouldn't be completely satisfied unless there was a signed, "born on date".
> But we got to go with what we got, and always be willing to let the evidence lead the way.
> Your right to be skeptical. I'm really interested in the mining site, and what evidence, and or theories that come from it.
> It's supposed to be the largest deposit of gold on Earth, according to claims.



Oh yeah, I read that part, they said a civilization of around 200,000 people lived there and mined gold. That raised a question in my mind. How exactly would the economy of that day work? It being the only civilization of the period, what would their use be for gold?


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## Sure Shot (Nov 25, 2010)

Yeah, I started thinking of Sumerian legends and then they went on to make the same connection.
It's fascinating how the Ancient Alien theory takes away all the magic of history, while leaving the stories intact.
Man has just been trying to interpret something it couldn't understand.
This misinterpretation of facts has traveled a twisted grapevine rot with greed, arrogance, & ignorance.


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## Guy Dasilva (Nov 26, 2010)

"(why are there still apes on this planet if we descended from them)"

Evolution is out of necessity, not just something that happens for no reason. Those apes in particular never had a reason to evolve like us.


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## mindphuk (Nov 26, 2010)

Guy Dasilva said:


> "(why are there still apes on this planet if we descended from them)"
> 
> Evolution is out of necessity, not just something that happens for no reason. Those apes in particular never had a reason to evolve like us.


Actually this is not true. Evolution occurs all of the time, necessity has nothing to do with it as it is an undirected process. Modern apes have evolved just as much as we have. We are not evolved from modern apes but from a common ancestor between us and chimpanzees. Even so, the original question creates more than one misconception. It is like asking that if Americans descended from Europeans, why are there still Europeans? Evolution often can produce more than one species from a single basal form and unless the original goes extinct, they all can co-exist contemporaneously.


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## Guy Dasilva (Nov 27, 2010)

It is my opinion that with no variation there is no evolution, having said that variation happens all the time and probably wont ever stop. BTW the ape thing was @ mindphuk Good post +rep

is co-exist not the definition of contemporaneous?


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## mindphuk (Nov 27, 2010)

Guy Dasilva said:


> It is my opinion that with no variation there is no evolution, having said that variation happens all the time and probably wont ever stop. BTW the ape thing was @ mindphuk Good post +rep
> 
> is co-exist not the definition of contemporaneous?


 It's a bit redundant I guess, lol. 
I think it's more than just your opinion. You're correct in that variation is essential to evolution. The strange thing is that IDers seem to deny that enough variation can build up enough differences to where we would call it a different species that the group that it originally came from. We actually see this currently in nature where a species' territory has spread to the point that some members of the species is in a very different environment than others. 


> The various _Ensatina_ salamanders of the Pacific coast all descended from a common ancestral population. As the species spread southward from Oregon and Washington, subpopulations adapted to their local environments on either side of the San Joaquin Valley. From one population to the next, in a circular pattern, these salamanders are still able to interbreed successfully. However, where the circle closes -- in the black zone on the map in Southern California -- the salamanders no longer interbreed successfully. The variation within a single species has produced differences as large as those between two separate species.


It's strange to me that people that deny ''macro' evolution cannot offer up any explanation as to what prevents 'micro' evolution to continue to the point that it is considered macro, i.e. creates new species. They put up an artificial barrier and cannot explain what creates that barrier, what exactly prevents a new species from forming.


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## Hydrotech364 (Nov 27, 2010)

I thought that it is at the time of or near Extinction that evolution occurs.Macro.


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## mindphuk (Nov 27, 2010)

hydrotech364 said:


> I thought that it is at the time of or near Extinction that evolution occurs.Macro.


 Extinction events play a major role in diversification because of the radically changed environment changes the fitness of almost all species. Extinction events give us the best chance to see major changes in the fossil record. The thing is, science doesn't really recognize the distinction between 'macro' and 'micro' evolution as it is all a continuum. It is the creationists and IDers that have defined macro as evolving a new species. The problem is that even though they defined it, when we show them examples of such evolution, they still deny it is macro. They have a bad habit of continuing to move the goal posts.


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## guy incognito (Nov 27, 2010)

hydrotech364 said:


> I thought that it is at the time of or near Extinction that evolution occurs.Macro.


Evolution happens all the time.


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## Guy Dasilva (Nov 28, 2010)

Interesting shite! I like to look to the good old Galapagos Islands (read about, Ive never been of course) for evolutionary inspiration. I love the variation of the same species across the islands, it is a testimonial to the power of nature.


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## KindGrower (Nov 28, 2010)

Sorry to get off the subject of evolution but has anyone here ever heard of Valiant Thor?


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## mindphuk (Nov 28, 2010)

KindGrower said:


> Sorry to get off the subject of evolution but has anyone here ever heard of Valiant Thor?


 You mean that alien from Venus that is able to withstand the enormous pressures and heat but somehow manage to build a spacecraft and fly it to Earth?


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## KindGrower (Nov 28, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> You mean that alien from Venus that is able to withstand the enormous pressures and heat but somehow manage to build a spacecraft and fly it to Earth?


I don't know, one of my friends was talking about it a few nights ago when we were fucked up lol.


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## Sure Shot (Dec 2, 2010)

Found this in another thread and thought it deserved more coverage.



ANC said:


> Washington - The US space agency has created a buzz with its announcement of a news conference on Thursday to discuss a scientific finding that relates to the hunt for life beyond the planet Earth.
> "Nasa will hold a news conference at 14:00 EST (19:00 GMT) on Thursday, December 2, to discuss an astrobiology finding that will impact the search for evidence of extraterrestrial life," it said on its website.
> Space enthusiasts and believers in alien life took to the blogosphere in a flurry of speculation over the potential meaning of the announcement, though Nasa declined to elaborate further.
> Those scheduled to speak included Mary Voytek, who heads Nasa's astrobiology programme; Felisa Wolfe-Simon, a Nasa astrobiology research fellow from the US Geological Survey; and Pamela Conrad, an astrobiologist at Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Centre.
> ...


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## Sure Shot (Dec 2, 2010)

Here are some excerpts from today's press release.



Researchers conducting tests in the harsh environment of Mono Lake in California have discovered the first known microorganism on Earth able to thrive and reproduce using the toxic chemical arsenic. The microorganism substitutes arsenic for phosphorus in its cell components...........


The newly discovered microbe, strain GFAJ-1, is a member of a common group of bacteria, the Gammaproteobacteria. In the laboratory, the researchers successfully grew microbes from the lake on a diet that was very lean on phosphorus, but included generous helpings of arsenic. When researchers removed the phosphorus and replaced it with arsenic the microbes continued to grow. Subsequent analyses indicated that the arsenic was being used to produce the building blocks of new GFAJ-1 cells...............

"The idea of alternative biochemistries for life is common in science fiction," said Carl Pilcher, director of the NASA Astrobiology Institute at the agency's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. "Until now a life form using arsenic as a building block was only theoretical, but now we know such life exists in Mono Lake."


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## doowmd (Dec 2, 2010)

way to follow up sureshot! that's some interesting stuff. lifeforms using arsenic to live.......!!!!!!!!!!!!! w/ the obvious connotation 'if that's possible, what _couldn't_ be used for life? and there could be life on *any* planet!?!?!


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## RawBudzski (Dec 2, 2010)

they do exist, have been here. are here, but its a different relationship than you may think. cannot explain now but reverse engineering is happening, we are on the dark side of the moon with large telescope's that can see vital areas on earth. Breaking technology is on average 5-10 years ahead of what is shown and given to the public sector. No ALIENS are not in the UFOs that are seen now days. The Large Triangles are man made, they can appear transparent, black, and have the ability to project images with some type of light/laser. Well you can take it from their because its more inter-woven than you can imagine ^_^ you cant just pick out 1 aspect. And for all you ignorant humans, you are the "aliens". If only you were among your ancestors, would you have any sight.


skunkushybrid said:


> The type that come from other planets.
> 
> Anyone believe they have landed on Earth? Not that they don't exist as I believe they do, the odds of them not are too great. Actually believe though that they have landed on Earth? Or that they kidnap people for experiments?


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## JoeCa1i (Dec 2, 2010)

check out http://theyfly.com/The_Billy_Meier_UFO_Contacts.htm .I don't trust any so called aliens.Check out the bible and the book of enoch.


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## JoeCa1i (Dec 2, 2010)

check out http://www.youtube.com/user/gorilla199


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## guy incognito (Dec 2, 2010)

doowmd said:


> way to follow up sureshot! that's some interesting stuff. lifeforms using arsenic to live.......!!!!!!!!!!!!! w/ the obvious connotation 'if that's possible, what _couldn't_ be used for life? and there could be life on *any* planet!?!?!


If you look at the periodic table it is organized by properties. Elements in the same column usually have the same chemical properties and react similarly. 







Phosphorus is directly above arsenic on the table (numbers 15 and 33 respectively).

While interesting I feel like I was misled by the wording about it relating to alien life. This is not alien life.


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## Sure Shot (Dec 2, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> While interesting I feel like I was misled by the wording about it relating to alien life. This is not alien life.


This changes or broadens our view on where to look for Alien life.
Astrobiology


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## guy incognito (Dec 2, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> This changes or broadens our view on where to look for Alien life.
> Astrobiology


It does and is certainly relevant to the search for alien life. I guess I was led to believe there was some ACTUAL alien life from the all the hype, or that there was some form of "weird" life that had independent origins from the rest of life as we know it. This has the exact same origins though, it was just able to utilize some unique chemistry the rest of life doesn't seem to utilize. I read more about this from other sources and the hype was pretty crazy.


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## Sure Shot (Dec 2, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> It does and is certainly relevant to the search for alien life. I guess I was led to believe there was some ACTUAL alien life from the all the hype, or that there was some form of "weird" life that had independent origins from the rest of life as we know it. This has the exact same origins though, it was just able to utilize some unique chemistry the rest of life doesn't seem to utilize. I read more about this from other sources and the hype was pretty crazy.


Yes, but all that was hearsay.
Not directly from NASA.
Just us Humans with high hopes.


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## guy incognito (Dec 2, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> Yes, but all that was hearsay.
> Not directly from NASA.
> Just us Humans with high hopes.


Yes, but its fucking retarded to print it as "news" then. Just wait until the actual press release comes out. I wonder why people would start speculating on shit they WANT the press release to be about.


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## mistaphuck (Dec 2, 2010)

JoeCa1i said:


> check out http://www.youtube.com/user/gorilla199


 wow I really hope you don't take that retarded douche bag seriously. 

epic logic fail..
[video=youtube;AOZwLgWENgw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOZwLgWENgw&feature=player_profilepage[/video]
this has to be the most retarded video I have ever seen..


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## mindphuk (Dec 2, 2010)

mistaphuck said:


> wow I really hope you don't take that retarded douche bag seriously.
> 
> epic logic fail..
> [video=youtube;AOZwLgWENgw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOZwLgWENgw&feature=player_profilepage[/video]
> this has to be the most retarded video I have ever seen..


 OMFG, that is hysterical!!! Olives are green and so are witches and the Jolly Green Giant so that's where little green men with antennas come from. ROFL!!!!


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## mindphuk (Dec 11, 2010)

[video=youtube;jj3r01Je7hc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_596353&v=jj3r01Je7hc&feature=iv[/video]


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## The Ruiner (Dec 11, 2010)

This show was pretty entertaining...


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## Dropastone (Dec 11, 2010)

*Air & Space*

 *Scientists Find 200 Sextillion More Stars in the Sky*


Published December 01, 2010
Associated Press









 ESA/Hubble​ 

 The night sky may be a lot starrier than we thought.​ 
A study suggests the universe could have triple the number of stars scientists previously calculated. For those of you counting at home, the new estimate is 300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. That's 300 sextillion.

The study questions a key assumption that astronomers often use: that most galaxies have the same properties as our Milky Way. And that's creating a bit of a stink among astronomers who want a more orderly cosmos.

It's one of two studies being published online Wednesday in the journal Nature that focus on red dwarf stars, the most common stars in the universe. The study that offers the new estimate on stars is led by a Yale University astronomer. He calculates that there are far more red dwarfs than previously thought, and that inflates the total star count.

A second study led by a Harvard University scientist focuses on a distant "super Earth" planet and sees clues to the content of its atmosphere -- the first of this kind of data for this size planet. It orbits a red dwarf.

Red dwarf stars -- about a fifth the size of our sun -- burn slowly and last much longer than the bigger, brighter stars, such as the sun in the center of our solar system, said Yale astronomer Pieter van Dokkum. His study looks at how many red dwarfs are in elliptical-shaped galaxies.

When scientists had estimated previously how many stars there were in the universe, they assumed that all galaxies had the same ratio of dwarf stars as in our galaxy, which is spiral-shaped. Much of our understanding of the universe is based on observations inside our Milky Way and then extrapolated to other galaxies.

But about one-third of the galaxies in the universe are not spiral, but elliptical, and van Dokkum found they aren't really made up the same way as ours.

Using the Keck telescope in Hawaii, van Dokkum and a colleague gazed into eight other distant, but elliptical, galaxies and looked at their hard-to-differentiate light signatures. The scientists calculated that elliptical galaxies have more of those dwarf stars. A lot more.

"We're seeing 10 or 20 times more stars than we expected," van Dokkum said. By his calculations, that triples the number of estimated stars from 100 sextillion to 300 sextillion.

For the past month, astronomers have been buzzing about van Dokkum's findings, and many aren't too happy about it, said astronomer Richard Ellis of the California Institute of Technology.

Van Dokkum's paper challenges the assumption of "a more orderly universe" and gives credence to "the idea that the universe is more complicated than we think," Ellis said. "It's a little alarmist."

Ellis said it is too early to tell if van Dokkum is right or wrong, but it is shaking up the field "like a cat among pigeons."

Van Dokkum agreed, saying, "Frankly, it's a big pain."

Ellis said the new study does make sense. Its biggest weakness might be its assumption that the chemical composition of dwarf stars is the same in elliptical galaxies as in the Milky Way. That might be wrong, Ellis said. Even if it is, it would mean there are only five times more red dwarf stars in elliptical galaxies than scientists previously thought, instead of 10 or 20, van Dokkum said.

Slightly closer to home, at least in our own galaxy, one dwarf star has astronomers at Harvard taking another step in their search for life. They were able to home in on the atmosphere of a planet circling that star using the European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope in Chile. The planet lives up to the word alien.

Their paper reports that this giant planet's atmosphere is either dense with sizzling water vapor like a souped-up steam bath, or it's full of hazy, choking hydrogen and helium clouds with a slightly blue tint. The latter is more likely, say the researchers and others not involved in the study.

While scientists have been able to figure out the atmosphere of gas giants the size of Jupiter or bigger, this is a first for the type of planet called a super Earth -- something with a mass 2 to 10 times Earth's. It is more comparable to Neptune and circles a star about 42 light years from Earth. A light year is nearly 6 trillion miles.

And while this planet is nowhere near livable -- it's about 440 degrees (about 225 degrees Celsius) -- characterizing its atmosphere is a big step toward understanding potentially habitable planets outside our solar system, said study chief author Jacob Bean at the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.

"You wouldn't want to be there. It would be unpleasant," said study co-author Eliza Kempton of the University of California Santa Cruz.

Bean and Kempton looked at the light spectrum signature from the large planet as it passed in front of the dwarf star, and the result led to two possible conclusions: steam bath or haze.

The steam bath is the more interesting possibility because water is key to life, said outside scientist Alan Boss of the Carnegie Institution of Washington.

But an upcoming and still unpublished study by Kempton and Bryce Croll at the University of Toronto points more toward a hydrogen-helium atmosphere, several astronomers said.

_Editors' Note: An earlier version of this story erroneously said that astronomer Eliza Kempton is affiliated with the University of California Santa Clara; Kempton is actually at the University of California Santa Cruz. This story has been updated to reflect the correction. _


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/12/01/scientists-sextillion-stars/#ixzz17oX9ChzX[/COLOR]​


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## Dropastone (Dec 11, 2010)

http://www.ufodigest.com/article/why-planet-x-planet-and-not-dwarf-brown-star-nor-large-jupiter

*Why Planet X is a planet and NOT a dwarf brown star nor as large as Jupiter!*

​





Submitted by Gordon J. Gianninoto on Thu, 11/18/2010 - 12:10 


by *Gordon J. Gianninoto*









No matter how hard I try to explain that Planet X is not a star, no matter how small or dark, there remains a stubborn hard core group that is convinced that Planet X is a star. This email is to answer those incorrect assumptions and hopefully close the books on this needless argument.



First of all, the subject was first brought up by NASA and JPL in a front page story in the Washington Post in December of 1983. Then the next day they 'retracted' the story. Funny thing because the IRAS satellite that used infrared to detect it twice six months apart, at a distance of 50 billion miles, in the direction of Orion, was sent to look for it because NASA knew for over 30 years at that point in 1983 that it was on it's way. Clearly, people must have asked that night 'what does that mean?' and they went 'Uh Oh, we can't tell people about pole shift; damn, we will have to retract that statement."



So even the people who think it is a star, agree with me that NASA spotted it in 1983 and that it is on its way into our solar system. So far, so good.



But now look at the end of the article. The temperature of the body is known by NASA to be minus 459 degrees Fahrenheit! Of course it was 50 billion miles away, but no other more sensitive infrared instrument existed before the IRAS satellite. So if what was spotted then, is Planet X, there still is no way of knowing whether it is a dead star or a dead planet. NASA did not call it a planet or a star but "A Mystery Heavenly Body Discovered, Possibly as large as Jupiter?"










So we are back to square one. They only call it a possible planet or a possible star, and they only say it is possible it is as large as Jupiter. So, unless you are in charge of a large astronomical telescope, or an orbiting satellite, or a deep space satellite, you and we do not have conclusive proof of the object either way.


But wait, let us look at the circumstantial evidence. There is a lot of it.



Has anyone read the works of the recently deceased Zecharia Sitchin? The Annunaki live on a planet that comes through our solar system every 3,657 years. It trails a twin strand of hundreds of moons, some the size of our moon, and trillions upon trillions of rocks, and a huge cloud of iron ore dust and greasy oily hydrocarbons. I do not know how anyone can ignore the fact that it is now 3,657 years since the last time it came through at the time of Joshua in the Old Testament Chapter 10 when he experienced the sun rising and doing little circles in the sky at pole shift. The planet, Niburu, is now called Planet X by the fans of Sitchin. It is 4 times the size of Earth and 23 times the mass. It is a volcanic, oceanic, atmospheric planet with selfish humans one and one half times the size of earth humans, evidently all with red hair as the statues of Easter Island show, and the giant skeletons found out west on the new episode of "Ancient Aliens" on the History Channel last week.



So if Planet X comes every 3657 years, and is spotted on the way in, and photographed almost every day by NASA, and it looks like the glyph of Niburu, "The Winged Globe" like a bird wheeling in the sky, like a globe with wings, what is left to discuss?



Well, evidently alot because if that should have solved the dispute, it didn't. So let us continue in our search for other evidence.



This next evidence is more of what no one is saying rather than what everyone is saying. I have a great sense of logic, and common sense and I put it now in a way you may not have considered.



I have been interested, very interested, in astronomy since the first international geophysical year in 1957. I have never heard what I am about to say and you have not either!



"Astronomers state there is a terrible problem with stars going through solar systems";

"For the ten thousandth time, Astronomers have photographed a star going through a solar system and disrupting planets at a minimum, and destroying them at a maximum";

"NASA working with the U.S. Government to stop stars on their way through our solar system";

"NASA at a loss to stop stars from destroying earth";

"All nations of Earth meet to discuss the terrible problem of stars coming into solar systems!".



I think you get the idea. There is no record of a star going through a solar system. Why, I don't know, but think about it, never, ever has it been seen. Oh yes, it was discussed, but by whom? Check this link out by Billy Meier on how the moon, our moon, was formed, by, a star going through a far away solar system and batting a living planet through space to be our moon: http://www.theyfly.com/Moon_Origin.htm But not even NASA knows what the moon is, how it got there, or why it is like it is. But does Billy, in his contact with ETs say a star is going to go through our solar system? As I recall, no he does not. I may be wrong, but I know that NASA has never ever even had a meeting about the problem of a star on its way to our solar system.











Now, look at the photos. I have attached a few. Planet X is not some mystical thing called 'Wormwood' out of the Bible that is below our solar system out in space. No, it is a planet trailing moons and dust that is in between the earth and the sun, and not in a straight line either. The dust picks up the sunlight and makes it glow. The planet itself does not glow, it reflects sunlight off it toward earth, if the angle is right to do that. The moons behind Planet X ripple and make the 'bird' look different, and, also sometimes line up so that the larger moons form a cross shape in the sky.



Now the ancient glyphs from Sumeria are 5,000 years old showing a winged globe and a cross. But high in the Andes are ruins with the winged globe glyph that is 18,000 years old. As the selfish ETs, the Annunaki, presented themselves as 'Gods' the symbols or glyphs are also symbols of pole shift and the return of the gods, as the sight of a winged globe or a cross or a dragon ball and a dragon tail presents itself in the sky and the earth trembles and the sun does little circles and sets in a new direction, and the gods return.











So, until any astronomer discusses stars coming through the solar system, ours or any others, as being a problem, I am going with the other explanation, recorded on historic tablets, monuments, engravings around the world, and told in every ancient culture as the story of god coming to earth, that Planet X is a planet, it is in our skies now, and it is 4 times larger than earth and going to cause pole shift, but not hit anything.



I hope this closes out the subject, but I suspect it won't.



But come on, put on your common sense hat and which shoe fits?



Now the only loose end I can see is how come IRAS said Planet X is minus 459 degrees Fahrenheit? Perhaps it was reading the cloud of moons and dust. To me, that was the most likely. The second most likely? This is very interesting. What were the Annunaki doing with all the gold they were taking from earth? If their planet spends thousands of earth years in between the two suns it sling shots back and forth between, in our binary solar system, would it not get quite cold out there in space? Would they take the gold and somehow put it in their atmosphere as a blanket? Well yes they would, as our own space craft are coated with gold as much as we can afford because, are you ready, gold blocks infrared radiation! Gold keeps the heat in or out. On Niburu, the easiest way to keep warm would be gold dust, lots of it, in the atmosphere. Maybe when it is 50 billion miles away that makes it read cold. Maybe the clouds of moons, rocks and dust made it look like something the size of Jupiter when seen from 50 billion miles away.



So, we have no follow up by NASA in 27 years since that announcement. Is there something they do not want you to know? You can count on that. Why is the space program coming to an end? Why has NASA relocated all key personnel to safe areas way inland? Why has the US government relocated to Denver Colorado and Kokomo Indiana? Why is Indonesia, and all of SE asia about to sink? Etc.



I think you get the idea, NASA does not care if you ever figure it out, because, you are expendable. I would guess the US government feels the same way about you. That is why even in 1983 BEFORE they retracted it by saying 'no we did not find it, sorry, still looking' they said 'we want to through cold water on the idea that it is coming into the solar system' . So they did discuss it before they announced it, but then they realized people would not only want to know what might happen if it did, but people would never stop asking for progress reports on where it is. Well, it came from behind the sun on the left and emerged on the right and now is 55 million miles from the sun and 34 million miles from us. It will suddenly move to 14 million miles from us, cause pole shift, and leave. My best guess is NEXT YEAR.



Would it help if all the Planet X people got on the same page? Yes, that is all we can do.​


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 11, 2010)

Dude, you do real science an incredible disservice by presenting this "planet X" theory as the least bit credible..


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## Dropastone (Dec 11, 2010)

Frankly dude, I could give a rats ass to what you think.


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 11, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> Frankly dude, I could give a rats ass to what you think.


Yet you post this retarded shit on a public internet forum? ...makes sense.


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## mindphuk (Dec 11, 2010)

[video=youtube;_xFdSHbDYWw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xFdSHbDYWw[/video]

Believe the scientists or believe the crazies, your choice.


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## Dropastone (Dec 11, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Yet you post this retarded shit on a public internet forum? ...makes sense.


Listen man, it's just an article. I didn't say one word in that post that say's I believe in it, I just happen to find it interesting. Who ever wants to read it can decide for themselves if they want believe in it or not. You sir, can take your precious modern day science and shove it. Like I said I don't give a flying [email protected]#k what you have to say on this subject or any other subject for that mater because you've already proved to me that you can't think for yourself. You have to let your precious scientific community do your thinking for you.


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## Sure Shot (Dec 11, 2010)

The one eyed, one horned, flying purple people eaters, are coming.
You've been warned.


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## Sure Shot (Dec 11, 2010)

I find it humorous how the speaker in the video is so certain that no Planet X can exist.
Considering the fact, that we literally stumbled upon all these in recent years.
All of which, are within our Solar System.


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 11, 2010)

Dropastone said:


> Listen man, it's just an article. I didn't say one word in that post that say's I believe in it, I just happen to find it interesting. Who ever wants to read it can decide for themselves if they want believe in it or not. You sir, can take your precious modern day science and shove it. Like I said I don't give a flying [email protected]#k what you have to say on this subject or any other subject for that mater because you've already proved to me that *you can't think for yourself. You have to let your precious scientific community do your thinking for you*.


"You don't let misconceptions, irrationalities, fairy tales, preconceived biased notions and figures of authority determine your reality"

Mr. Gianninoto's commentary was the thought process of a kid in grade school. He doesn't understand science for shit if he believes the things he's saying in that article.


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## Dropastone (Dec 11, 2010)

Padawanbater2 said:


> *"You don't let misconceptions, irrationalities, fairy tales, preconceived biased notions and figures of authority determine your reality"*
> 
> Mr. Gianninoto's commentary was the thought process of a kid in grade school. He doesn't understand science for shit if he believes the things he's saying in that article.


I'm the only one that determines my reality. Unlike some people I have a mind of my own that's capable considering possibilities outside of main stream science. I don't rely on some punk ass kid that's probably barely out of high school to determine it for me.

You act like a little baby that's having a temper tantrum when someone doesn't want to believe how you look at things, that are of course all in the name of science. 

You sir are nothing but troll, trying to force your beliefs on people and trying to make them conform to your way of thinking. How sad is that.

If you don't like what I got to say or post, then that's just tough shit. I'm done wasting my time on you, *again*.

Would you like your little binky and a blanket now?


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## Padawanbater2 (Dec 11, 2010)

I have a mind of my own that's capable considering possibilities outside of main stream science. I don't rely on some punk ass kid that's probably barely out of high school to determine it for me.

"Considering the possibilities outside mainstream science" - I'd really like to know, what is it that makes something "mainstream" in science? 

You people try to pass off anything outside the realm of *real science* as shit that's just being oppressed by the scientific community. Ben Stein does the exact same thing with creationism. Then you bitch and moan about how everything is all a conspiracy, and that's why your ideas, just like Stein's creationism, don't slip through the cracks of the scientific method and get a free pass to fact like they used to.

Anything outside of mainstream science is *pseudoscience*, fantasy, fairy tale. Have fun with that.

You act like a little baby that's having a temper tantrum when someone doesn't want to believe how you look at things, that are of course all in the name of science. 

No, I just get frustrated when, as far as I know, otherwise smart people fall for ridiculous claims that could be easily debunked with a basic understanding of science. It really illustrates an enormous problem our population faces. 

You sir are nothing but troll, trying to force your beliefs on people and trying to make them conform to your way of thinking. How sad is that.

What belief have I forced on you?

If you don't like what I got to say or post, then that's just tough shit. I'm done wasting my time on you, *again*.

Dude, don't post retarded shit if you don't have the brass to at the very least discuss it. Whose acting like the baby, I mean really? 

Your article was full of outrageous claims, I pointed it out, then you pulled the defensive stance and immediately claimed you didn't believe it.


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## Gafoogle (Dec 11, 2010)

not only do I believe in aliens...


...I think I might be one. O.O o noe


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## mindphuk (Dec 12, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> I find it humorous how the speaker in the video is so certain that no Planet X can exist.
> Considering the fact, that we literally stumbled upon all these in recent years.
> All of which, are within our Solar System.
> View attachment 1318874View attachment 1318876


 Seriously, if your argument is so weak that you have to create a straw man, just give up. 

You have completely distorted what Dr. Yeomans said. He never claimed that he is certain that a planet X cannot exist. Where the hell did you get that from? He is rejecting the claim of the people that say there is a large planetary object in near earth proximity. He said there IS NO EVIDENCE. He did not say such a thing can't exist. Did you happen to notice what his job is? 

BTW, Kuiper belt objects are outside the orbit of our most distant planet, are not anywhere near earth and don't have any gravitational effect on earth.


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## Dropastone (Dec 12, 2010)

You just don't get it man. I posted an article I thought was interesting. Just the article and I made no comments about it. Then you jump in with you snide remarks. 



> Dude, you do real science an incredible disservice by presenting this "planet X" theory as the least bit credible..





> Yet you post this retarded shit on a public internet forum? ...makes sense.


You automatically assume I believe this to be true. Now who's attacking who here. I have no proof there is a planet X, although I do find it to be very interesting. It is you that better get your facts straight before you post all this crap that comes spewing out of your mouth. The article is there for anyone to see and they can make up there own mind as to what they think of it. and I don't plan on trying to convince anybody it's fact.

As for what you try to push on me. You've been doing it from the get go ever since are little feud started. I don't buy *most *of the garbage that spews from your keyboard and I don't expect you to believe what you feel that's garbage that comes off mine. You seem to be the one that is shoving your beliefs down the throats of everybody that reads this thread if it's not to your liking, but your not shoving it down mine.


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## Dropastone (Dec 12, 2010)

> Yet you post this retarded shit on a public internet forum? ...makes sense.


Oh, another thing, the last time I checked, this is a public forum where anybody from around the world can access this board and post whatever they want without your permission, weather you like it or not.


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## Sure Shot (Dec 12, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Seriously, if your argument is so weak that you have to create a straw man, just give up.
> 
> You have completely distorted what Dr. Yeomans said. He never claimed that he is certain that a planet X cannot exist. Where the hell did you get that from? He is rejecting the claim of the people that say there is a large planetary object in near earth proximity. He said there IS NO EVIDENCE. He did not say such a thing can't exist. Did you happen to notice what his job is?
> 
> BTW, Kuiper belt objects are outside the orbit of our most distant planet, are not anywhere near earth and don't have any gravitational effect on earth.


I'll have to watch again.
I liked the video, and was thankful for it.
Sorry if my post come off the wrong way.
Merely trying to share info and I was certain he spoke of it in absolute terms.
But, I'll look again right now. That video was definitely worth a second look.

BTW, it's not a theory a give heavy weight too, but equal weight.


----------



## mindphuk (Dec 12, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> I'll have to watch again.
> I liked the video, and was thankful for it.
> Sorry if my post come off the wrong way.
> Merely trying to share info and I was certain he spoke of it in absolute terms.
> ...


It's all good. My responses tend to be harsh when discussing science. It is just natural and very typical of discussions I have with scientists that I am debating. I still try to be respectful but have low tolerance for common fallacies. 

Why would anyone give equal weight to an idea that is not supported by the evidence? This is what the ID advocates do is try to claim that their baseless claims deserve equal time in a science classroom. All ideas are not automatically equally valid.


----------



## Sure Shot (Dec 12, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Why would anyone give equal weight to an idea that is not supported by the evidence?


What do you consider "the evidence"? 



mindphuk said:


> This is what the ID advocates do is try to claim that their baseless claims deserve equal time in a science classroom. All ideas are not automatically equally valid.


 I can completely understand this correlation, but I'm trying to tie the origins of religion and science together. I find it is quite possible our ancestors mistook alien technology for magic. 
Do you find this too highly improbable?

Religion IMO is the best lie ever sold. And we know that every good lie is full of truths. Food for thought

You asked me if I read his job title and that's exactly why I found his remark at 1:37 humorous.
He states that "there is no Nibiru, no Planet X, and nothing hurdling towards Earth.."
If he was so certain of this statement then what is he doing in that program, and what has the WISE telescope been doing?

"[FONT=&quot]To date, the WISE telescope has discovered 19 comets and more than 33,500 asteroids, including 120 near-Earth objects, which are objects with orbits that pass relatively close to Earth's own orbit around the sun."[/FONT]


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## mindphuk (Dec 12, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> What do you consider "the evidence"?


Like Donald said, the lack of telescopic and gravitational evidence. The origin of the myth was never based on anything but the claims of an abductee. I'm sorry but I cannot take that as a reason to seriously consider Nibiru as anything but science fiction. I do not subject myself to have to believe that every claim, no matter how ridiculous, deserves more than a cursory examination. When no actual evidence is found, the claim is rejected until such time that ANYONE can present actual, measurable, testable, empirical evidence. 


> I can completely understand this correlation, but I'm trying to tie the origins of religion and science together. I find it is quite possible our ancestors mistook alien technology for magic.
> Do you find this too highly improbable?
> 
> Religion IMO is the best lie ever sold. And we know that every good lie is full of truths. Food for thought


You don't need any other explanation for claims of the religious than the most prevalent ones. There is no evidence that anything actually magical took place in earths history. Ancient alien stories are built on an argument from ignorance, not on any hard evidence. I was just watching a special on the architecture of the Roman Coliseum and the Pantheon. These were built when most humans were still living in mud huts. We have a decent understanding of how they might have built these incredible structures but no detail records. They were innovative and incredibly sophisticated using new techniques and materials. People tend to give ancient humans not enough credit for the very things that make us human, our creative ingenuity. I think religion ties in very well. The same creativeness that we used to devise and build difficult structures, is what led us to create stories about our origins.


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## Sure Shot (Dec 12, 2010)

From my understanding, the origin of the myth has nothing to do with abductees.
The origin of Nibiru comes from our most ancient text, Sumerian.
The speaker touched upon this, and he mentioned a different interpretation of a tablet.
It's this cultures stories, that we see parodied in mainstream religions.

Can you give me the name of that special on Roman archetecture?


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## mindphuk (Dec 12, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> From my understanding, the origin of the myth has nothing to do with abductees.
> The origin of Nibiru comes from our most ancient text, Sumerian.
> The speaker touched upon this, and he mentioned a different interpretation of a tablet.
> It's this cultures stories, that we see parodied in mainstream religions.
> ...


Engineering the Impossible - Rome, on the Science Channel.


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## VER D (Jan 2, 2011)

were the aliens man


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## danny12 (Jan 5, 2011)

i think there real, there probaly using some invisible loath or somthing lol


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## shanewarner (Jan 5, 2011)

Aliens and that type of things are just a myths and nothing else we are living in this beautiful planet and we should thanks to God that You give me good thoughts and save our life by that type of extra myths 



Motorola CLIQ | *Motorola DEFY*


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## Sure Shot (Jan 6, 2011)

Your god is a myth shorter lived then Aliens.
Matter of fact, heaven = sky and angels = messengers.
And FYI, your god Yahweh or, YHWH, originated from a a mountain cult.
It was adopted by Hebrew people after the Canaanite gave them a home.
Slowly their cultures mingled and eventually the Hebrew abandoned their Bull god, Moloch.


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## KindGrower (Jan 6, 2011)

If you wanna meet aliens take a fat ass rip of some dank funky deamsters and you will find them in 10 seconds.....


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## Dropastone (Jan 11, 2011)

http://www.spacetelescope.org/news/heic1102/

A strange, glowing green cloud of gas that has mystified astronomers since its discovery in 2007 has been studied by Hubble. The cloud of gas is lit up by the bright light of a nearby quasar, and shows signs of ongoing star formation.
One of the strangest space objects ever seen is being scrutinized by the penetrating vision of the NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope. A mysterious, glowing green blob of gas is floating in space near a spiral galaxy. Hubble uncovered delicate filaments of gas and a pocket of young star clusters in the giant object, which is the size of the Milky Way.
The Hubble revelations are the latest finds in an ongoing probe of Hannys Voorwerp (Hannys Object in Dutch). It is named after Hanny van Arkel, the Dutch schoolteacher who discovered the ghostly structure in 2007 while participating in the online Galaxy Zoo project. Galaxy Zoo enlists the public to help classify more than a million galaxies catalogued in the Sloan Digital Sky Survey. The project has expanded to include Galaxy Zoo: Hubble, in which the public is asked to assess tens of thousands of galaxies in deep imagery from the Hubble Space Telescope.
In the sharpest view yet of Hannys Voorwerp, Hubbles Wide Field Camera 3 and Advanced Camera for Surveys have uncovered star birth in a region of the green object that faces the spiral galaxy IC 2497, located about 650 million light-years from Earth. Radio observations have shown an outflow of gas arising from the galaxys core. The new Hubble images reveal that the galaxys gas is interacting with a small region of Hannys Voorwerp, which is collapsing and forming stars. The youngest stars are a couple of million years old.
The greenish Voorwerp is visible because a searchlight beam of light from the galaxys core has illuminated it. This beam came from a quasar  a bright, energetic object that is powered by a black hole. The quasar is thought to have turned off less than 200 000 years ago.
Astronomer Bill Keel of the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, USA, leader of the Hubble study, is presenting his results on this object today at the American Astronomical Society meeting in Seattle, USA. Read more about his preliminary findings in the NASA news release linked below.


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## YarndiYarns (Jan 13, 2011)

I believe that the earth has been and continues to be visited by extra terrestrial entities.

When the time comes...I will be out in the streets demanding full disclosure and release of free energy devices that the governments have kept from us in order to keep us docile and compliant.

The Veritasshow.com


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## bestbuds09 (Jan 13, 2011)

Aliens or extra terrestrial = fallen angels.


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## VER D (Jan 17, 2011)

YarndiYarns said:


> I believe that the earth has been and continues to be visited by extra terrestrial entities.
> 
> When the time comes...I will be out in the streets demanding full disclosure and release of free energy devices that the governments have kept from us in order to keep us docile and compliant.
> 
> The Veritasshow.com


 Nikola Tesla already invented this


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## YarndiYarns (Jan 18, 2011)

VER D said:


> Nikola Tesla already invented this


Yes, Yes he Did.


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## j.GrEeN.<,{'^'},> (Apr 1, 2012)

bestbuds09 said:


> Aliens or extra terrestrial = fallen angels.


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## mudminer (Apr 2, 2012)

I think it kinda limits Gods ability to say/think that out of the literally billions of possible suitable planets and or moons that life (as we know it) would only be here on little ol earth. In Genesis it says that God looked at what He had created and said "It is good". Why would he do that and then say, "Yeah but I think I'll just leave it right here. It aint that good." It really is a bit self important and narrow minded of humans to think we're alone in the cosmos. Havent even addressed the possibility/likelihood of "life" in other forms such as silica or energy based. The possibilities are literally endless. Too bad the extent of our arrogance isnt.


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## RollMeOne420 (Apr 2, 2012)

Aw yes one of my favorite subjects. You have to be ignorant not to believe in life beyond our planets. Me are only a grain of sand in a beach!


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## cannabineer (Apr 2, 2012)

Which part of the beach though? cn


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## RollMeOne420 (Apr 2, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Which part of the beach though? cn


The part right in between the two bun shaped rocks


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## tyler.durden (Apr 2, 2012)

I posted this article in the Science/Technology subforum, but I thought it would be appropriate here, as well:

* [h=2]




We are not alone (probably)[/h] The more we discover, the more unlikely it seems that we are the only planet with life around...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/tens-billio...114036219.html


'Tens of billions' of planets in habitable zones

By AFP | AFP &#8211; Thu, Mar 29, 2012




Email
Print





Related Content





View PhotoA handout released in 2010 by the European Southern Observatory shows an artist's impression of the atmosphere around a super-Earth exoplanet. A scan of small, cool stars in the Milky Way suggests our galaxy has "tens of billions" of rocky planets located like Earth in zones where life can exist, European astronomers say
View PhotoNASA satellite image shows the Carina Nebula, a star-forming region in the Sagittarius-Carina region of the Milky Way that is 7,500 light years from Earth. A scan of small, cool stars in the Milky Way suggests our galaxy has "tens of billions" of rocky planets located like Earth in zones where life can exist, European astronomers say




A scan of small, cool stars in the Milky Way suggests our galaxy has "tens of billions" of rocky planets located like Earth in zones where life can exist, European astronomers say.
The European Southern Observatory (ESO) says it found nine "super-Earths" in a sample survey of 102 stars known as red dwarves.
"Super-Earths" are rocky planets -- as opposed to gassy giants -- that orbit their stars in the so-called Goldilocks zone, where the temperature is neither too hot nor too cold but just right to have the potential to nurture life.
In this balmy region, the planet is neither scorched nor frozen, and water can exist in liquid form.
The ESO team used a powerful 3.6-metre (11.7-feet) telescope, known by its acronym of HARPS, at their observatory in Chile's Atacama desert.
"Our new observations with HARPS mean that about 40 percent of all red dwarf stars have a super-Earth orbiting in the habitable zone where liquid water can exist on the surface of the planet," said Xavier Bonfils of the Observatory of the Sciences of the Universe in Grenoble, southeastern France.
"Because red dwarves are so common -- there are about 160 billion of them in the Milky Way -- this leads us to the astonishing result that there are tens of billions of these planets in our galaxy alone," he said in an ESO press release issued on Wednesday.
By ESO's estimate, there could be around 100 "super-Earths" in stars less than 30 light years from Earth.
In cosmic terms, such distances are just a flea jump, but they are an impossible gap for Man to bridge with current space technology.
A total of 763 exoplanets, the term for a planet in another solar system, have been found since the first was detected in 1995, according to the Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia (http://exoplanet.eu/). ​ 

*


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## ismokealotofpot (Apr 2, 2012)

I was about 30 yards from a ufo It was completely silent and flew maybe 10mph


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## tyler.durden (Apr 2, 2012)

ismokealotofpot said:


> I was about 30 yards from a ufo It was completely silent and flew maybe 10mph


Yeah, but yousmokealotofpot  Dude, that wasn't an alien spacecraft, it was a Prius...


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## doowmd (Apr 2, 2012)

Funniest comment of the year (*so far*) ^^^

See, the fucked up thing is we'll never know (in our lifetime anyway) because the distance(s) are soooooooooo incredible, that we won't be able to travel and see for ourselves. And so that leaves us to 'sightings" and people w/ grainy pictures and shaky video of what could be, maybe looks like, sorta favors a UFO! It kinda pisses me off cause I would love to know and see proof of extraterrestrial's, but I've basically come to the conclusion that I'll never know for sure and that sucks!


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## lime73 (Apr 2, 2012)

we are the aliens


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## tyler.durden (Apr 2, 2012)

lime73 said:


> we are the aliens



..........


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## mudminer (Apr 2, 2012)

doowmd said:


> Funniest comment of the year (*so far*) ^^^See, the fucked up thing is we'll never know (in our lifetime anyway) because the distance(s) are soooooooooo incredible, that we won't be able to travel and see for ourselves. And so that leaves us to 'sightings" and people w/ grainy pictures and shaky video of what could be, maybe looks like, sorta favors a UFO! It kinda pisses me off cause I would love to know and see proof of extraterrestrial's, but I've basically come to the conclusion that I'll never know for sure and that sucks!


I guess we are left with them deciding to conclusively and undeniably reveal themselves to us.


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## mudminer (Apr 2, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Which part of the beach though? cn


Dang Cn, where you been hiding that one? Your cuz n the igloo used to be my fav.


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## mudminer (Apr 2, 2012)

lime73 said:


> we are the aliens


Well... thats cool to. I was only posting from the point of view of creationism discounting the possibibility of anything else.


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## lime73 (Apr 2, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Which part of the beach though? cn


ouch ....that would be ruff


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## mudminer (Apr 3, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> I posted this article in the Science/Technology subforum, but I thought it would be appropriate here, as well:* [h=2]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude that really is a cool article. Been spectin something like that for a while now. Good stuff.


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## ChronicObsession (Apr 3, 2012)

skunkushybrid said:


> The type that come from other planets.
> 
> Anyone believe they have landed on Earth? Not that they don't exist as I believe they do, the odds of them not are too great. Actually believe though that they have landed on Earth? Or that they kidnap people for experiments?


Can you even name what planit these aleyins come from? I call B.S. Many assholes posing as atheist poop all over my posts about Jesus Christ, so FUCK aliens too. I sledgehammer VHS tapes of E.T. into the pavement all day and every day ***********s!


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## lime73 (Apr 3, 2012)

........Mars


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## ChronicObsession (Apr 3, 2012)

Wow... Adults and E.T. So... where are all the Never Never land heads? I want to head to the Willy Wanka Chocolate Factory tour, is that shit still available?


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## mudminer (Apr 3, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Which part of the beach though? cn


my god....its full of....sand? I really just had to come back this. That girl deserves a HUGE amount of credit. Can u imagine how uncomfortable that must have been? The photographer really deserves a good bit of credit for the use of shadow as well. It really made the shot spectacular. imo.


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## lime73 (Apr 3, 2012)

mudminer said:


> my god....its full of....sand? I really just had to come back this. That girl deserves a HUGE amount of credit. Can u imagine how uncomfortable that must have been? The photographer really deserves a good bit of credit for the use of shadow as well. It really made the shot spectacular. imo.


its just sand with a wig lmao


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## lime73 (Apr 3, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> Wow... Adults and E.T. So... where are all the Never Never land heads? I want to head to the Willy Wanka Chocolate Factory tour, is that shit still available?



*






*


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## ChronicObsession (Apr 3, 2012)

LOL keep praying to your makebelieve aliens. Science has yet to Prove any of this Mr Hands horseshit anyway. What a laugh. LOL aliens vs Jesus Christ... The retard group picks E.T. for eternal life providence... LOL LOL let's smoke crack


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## lime73 (Apr 3, 2012)

[video=youtube;t5Sd5c4o9UM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Sd5c4o9UM&amp;feature=player_detailpage[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Sd5c4o9UM&feature=player_detailpage


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## ChronicObsession (Apr 3, 2012)

"" yea well atleast aliens come down my chimney and anal probe me and leave me a dollar "" gooooo aliens! go to hell harry potter!


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## lime73 (Apr 3, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> let's smoke crack


whatever floats your boat...noah..lol


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## lime73 (Apr 3, 2012)

who pissed on your bible?


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## ChronicObsession (Apr 3, 2012)

lime73 said:


> who pissed on your bible?


my bible ... was bought at Kmart. I'm pissed about that


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## mudminer (Apr 3, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> Can you even name what planit these aleyins come from? I call B.S. Many assholes posing as atheist poop all over my posts about Jesus Christ, so FUCK aliens too. I sledgehammer VHS tapes of E.T. into the pavement all day and every day ***********s!


Oooohhhh Chronny! Ive missed your glorious presence. Where ya been? Seems kinda narrow minded and "God limitting" to think E.T. would only be on one other rock besides Earth, doesnt it? Ive never indicated I was an atheist. I simply prefer their company to that of people like you. So mind your ASS-umptions young man. I didnt poop on posts about Jesus Christ. I pooped on some really fanatical sounding BS about Jesus Christ, His followers and some book made into God. Not to mention the rest of the ridiculous, incoherent nonsense that you post when you let yourself get too excited. Dude, calm down, relax, relaaxx, reelaaaxxx. You can call bullshit about anything you like, that is if you think bullshit is the only thing your capable of dialing up that would have the ability to comprehend you. But FYI, you could take part in intelligent conversations here if you could pull your head out of (how did u put it) "Santas nutsack?" and not treat others like they are beneath/and less than you. Maybe you'll surprise me and actually address some of the issues Ive brought up instead of going off into some nonsensical rant this time. Heres hopin. Cheers.


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## mudminer (Apr 3, 2012)

lime73 said:


> its just sand with a wig lmao


well bless my beach bucket! Not an abundance of detail on my mobile screen. To hell with the girl then. apply all credit to the sculptor. lol P.S.- Shoulda known. That butt was too perfect. Still like the use of shadow though.


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## Farfenugen (Apr 3, 2012)

Why is it that a majority of seemingly intelligent humans think that the idea of aliens or technological gods as it were, are somehow going to come down and enlighten us all, save us from doom and destruction and bring peace to the galaxy? Personally, I think if "they"
are watching or reading our posts, they should pack up and fuck the hell off. We don't need them. We don't want them. They aren't invited, so scram. In any case, I highly doubt aliens are really here, in any form. Shaky video and radio talk shows and books proclaiming the facts are at best, fiction. As are those guru types out there spouting off about universal brotherhood federation bull shit. Tra la la.


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## mudminer (Apr 3, 2012)

there are those who think that they may have something or even everything to do with our existence here. that may give them a vested interest in our progress.


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## BongTokinAlcoholic420 (Apr 4, 2012)

skunkushybrid said:


> The type that come from other planets.
> 
> Anyone believe they have landed on Earth? Not that they don't exist as I believe they do, the odds of them not are too great. Actually believe though that they have landed on Earth? Or that they kidnap people for experiments?


yes. I believe their are 22 types of human noids. and 1 that a I know of who are reptilian humanoids'. they see {and experience] everything we do and record it , like TV


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## tyler.durden (Apr 4, 2012)

BongTokinAlcoholic420 said:


> yes. I believe their are 22 types of human noids. and 1 that a I know of who are _*reptilian humanoids'*_. they see {and experience] everything we do and record it , like TV


They are better known as the US Government...


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## ultraviolet pirate (Apr 4, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> They are better known as the US Government...


and albino people.


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## doowmd (Apr 4, 2012)

Many of you have probably seen this video before, but it's interesting and topical so I thought I'd post it and see what y'all think.
[video=youtube;XqMf3towVVI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&amp;feature=endscreen&amp;v=XqMf3towVVI[/video]


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## cannabineer (Apr 5, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> LOL keep praying to your makebelieve aliens. Science has yet to Prove any of this Mr Hands horseshit anyway. What a laugh. LOL aliens vs Jesus Christ... The retard group picks E.T. for eternal life providence... LOL LOL let's smoke crack


Are you insinuating that Jesus would have taken the whole horse ... and lived? cn


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## meechz 024 (Apr 6, 2012)

If you study ancient civilizations, it's pretty obvious extraterrestrial contact was a normal, routine part of life for those early peoples.


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## cannabineer (Apr 6, 2012)

mudminer said:


> well bless my beach bucket! Not an abundance of detail on my mobile screen. To hell with the girl then. apply all credit to the sculptor. lol P.S.- Shoulda known. That butt was too perfect. Still like the use of shadow though.


I will admit this ... when i posted it I thought it was an actual human. With a spectacular, if gritty, toches. cn


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## mindphuk (Apr 7, 2012)

meechz 024 said:


> If you study ancient civilizations, it's pretty obvious extraterrestrial contact was a normal, routine part of life for those early peoples.


When your reference material is the History Channel I would agree but if you reference actual scholars with real degrees from Universities in areas of archaeology and anthropology, it wouldn't be so 'obvious.'


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## meechz 024 (Apr 9, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> When your reference material is the History Channel I would agree but if you reference actual scholars with real degrees from Universities in areas of archaeology and anthropology, it wouldn't be so 'obvious.'


Haha. So Government run education systems are more credible you are saying? They don't dare raise students to question our history like the speakers on the history channel.

"real degrees"

That's funny.

I guess we should listen to politicians, over a person who studies law themself without a pursuit for a degree... because the politician has a degree in law, that means he knows more about what is just and true law, right?

Don't put so much trust into our education system.


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## mindphuk (Apr 9, 2012)

meechz 024 said:


> Haha. So Government run education systems are more credible you are saying? They don't dare raise students to question our history like the speakers on the history channel.
> 
> "real degrees"
> 
> ...


 how the fuck did you infer that I was talking about anything to do with government? Don't conflate government k-9 school systems with university level post-graduates. I'm not going to waste my time with you if you can't bother to read. You bring up law degrees instead of actually responding to my post that mentioned hard sciences. Funny that you seem to have no problem being skeptical in some areas but you are a credulous moron in others. 
Thanks for playing.


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## meechz 024 (Apr 9, 2012)

Hard sciences had absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote sir. Ancient Civilizations is a whole different study.


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 10, 2012)

why does the history channel get such a bad rep when it comes to creditable sources? irregardless i look at the situation myself an not just listen to what they say and to me there could have been ancient civilizations that were advanced as fuck, but due to some natural event it was all wiped out besides shit made of stone. and to know that we dont know how they got there or what they were used for or how there were made...to me makes me wanna lean more towards its true than false.


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## Dalek Supreme (Apr 10, 2012)

I am from Skaro....better than Sandals resort but radiation suit required.

On a serious note.I know the truth,and it is a mixture of blessing and a curse.
For those that know like me may find the quip "you know" (sandwiched by things that have and sadly forever continue) is a wink of the eye to us that do know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EAu5kUHaq4


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 10, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> why does the history channel get such a bad rep when it comes to creditable sources? irregardless i look at the situation myself an not just listen to what they say and to me there could have been ancient civilizations that were advanced as fuck, but due to some natural event it was all wiped out besides shit made of stone.


I think it's because no matter how much time has passed, there is always a remnant of proof. Even as far back as dinosaurs, we have evidence of them being there. If ancient aliens landed and actually existed, especially to the extent of interfering with human affairs, we'd know. We'd have evidence. 

The bigger question is, if we don't have the evidence, why does it matter? Even if they were there, why would it matter to us, now, if we didn't have the evidence to prove it? 

...I think that's what today's "skeptical" community is arguing, it wouldn't. If they came and went without any evidence, it doesn't matter, we might as well treat it like they never came at all. If they came and wen't without so much as a fossil, a bone, a language, a LETTER, it doesn't matter. They may as well have never came at all. 



blazinkill504 said:


> and to know that we dont know how they got there or what they were used for or how there were made...to me makes me wanna lean more towards its true than false.


God of the gaps.


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## mindphuk (Apr 10, 2012)

meechz 024 said:


> Hard sciences had absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote sir. Ancient Civilizations is a whole different study.


It has to do with what I wrote... 
If you can't even follow the logic of a simple post, I can see how you would be duped by the unsupportable claims of ancient aliens.


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## Dalek Supreme (Apr 11, 2012)

Some time back a German team using a robot in a shaft of one the main pyramids found a stone hatch with copper handles blocking a chamber.The team was rushed out by the Egyptian government and the pyramid was closed to tours for a spell.
Yes if a major discovery was found,the public will be the first to know.


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## ismokealotofpot (Apr 11, 2012)

I dont know why aliens are in a *Spirituality & Sexuality & Philosophy *subforum


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## tyler.durden (Apr 11, 2012)

ismokealotofpot said:


> I dont know why aliens are in a *Spirituality & Sexuality & Philosophy *subforum


They recently shortened the name of this sub-forum from Spirituality & Sexuality & Philosophy & Aliens, but the vets around here know what's up. Seriously though, it's okay to post alien threads as long as we are speaking about philosophizing, or having sex, with aliens...


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## thump easy (Apr 11, 2012)

I think their from another dimension posably have to warp out of another side of the universe were the structure hear is totaly diffrent, posesion of a body and an implant that looks like a bone but realy is just the mark of the beast it faster than the most fastest computer altering the genetics, you will be able to live like back in biblical times this implant supose to be altering geens wow, what happends if you live for five hundred years will the pussy still be able to take a beeting? will you just realy want to beet her up lolz, ow man i dont want the implant. i dont think i can take more of the politics... and how many kids can you posably have man i dont think so.....


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## Dalek Supreme (Apr 11, 2012)

ismokealotofpot said:


> I dont know why aliens are in a *Spirituality & Sexuality & Philosophy *subforum


Is there a Paranormal forum?


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## 420IAMthatIAM (Apr 12, 2012)

It's the past presence,the future presence and the presence presence. It's like the me, myself and I only its the universe and time...


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## doowmd (Apr 12, 2012)

[video=youtube;x8bm4znIx88]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8bm4znIx88[/video]


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## Farfenugen (Apr 12, 2012)

grilled cheese


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 13, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I think it's because no matter how much time has passed, there is always a remnant of proof. Even as far back as dinosaurs, we have evidence of them being there. If ancient aliens landed and actually existed, especially to the extent of interfering with human affairs, we'd know. We'd have evidence.
> 
> The bigger question is, if we don't have the evidence, why does it matter? Even if they were there, why would it matter to us, now, if we didn't have the evidence to prove it?
> 
> ...


it could matter if they're the reason why we evolved the way we did. i see all the ruins and buildins we cant figure out what they are or why they're there as the evidence. it is odd tho that no other kinda evidence stayed here, but you right besides what i said it really dont matter that they came here. doesnt mean im not curious as to why they came and if it wasnt them what did it or how did they do it is what i wanna know.


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 13, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> it could matter if they're the reason why we evolved the way we did. i see all the ruins and buildins we cant figure out what they are or why they're there as the evidence. it is odd tho that no other kinda evidence stayed here, but you right besides what i said it really dont matter that they came here. doesnt mean im not curious as to why they came and if it wasnt them what did it or how did they do it is what i wanna know.



What seems more likely to you, the idea that our ancient ancestors created these buildings and somehow through the sands of time the blueprints were lost, or that another intelligent species, something which we have never known having lived 2,000 years of recordable history on the planet, came, created, and left without a shred of evidence as to how they did it? 

More than just buildings, if you're talking about our genetic makeup, the stuff we're actually made of, what we consist of, if you can't prove it, like I said, what difference does it make? 

It's an unfortunate consequence of the life we live, that which you can't prove doesn't matter. If you can suspend your belief to accept a belief without sufficient evidence, more power to you, ignorance is bliss, but for those of us that can't, it's essentially worthless. Agree?


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 13, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> They recently shortened the name of this sub-forum from Spirituality & Sexuality & Philosophy & Aliens, but the vets around here know what's up. Seriously though, it's okay to post alien threads as long as we are speaking about philosophizing, or having sex, with aliens...


 I wanna fuck an alien SO bad!


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## ismokealotofpot (Apr 14, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> They recently shortened the name of this sub-forum from Spirituality & Sexuality & Philosophy & Aliens, but the vets around here know what's up. Seriously though, it's okay to post alien threads as long as we are speaking about philosophizing, or having sex, with aliens...


You think yer fukin cute huh? must not know what im talking about. none of you? its a pity really. day in day out you go about your lives getting fat. your preparing yourselves for the big harvest.


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 21, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What seems more likely to you, the idea that our ancient ancestors created these buildings and somehow through the sands of time the blueprints were lost, or that another intelligent species, something which we have never known having lived 2,000 years of recordable history on the planet, came, created, and left without a shred of evidence as to how they did it?
> 
> More than just buildings, if you're talking about our genetic makeup, the stuff we're actually made of, what we consist of, if you can't prove it, like I said, what difference does it make?
> 
> It's an unfortunate consequence of the life we live, that which you can't prove doesn't matter. If you can suspend your belief to accept a belief without sufficient evidence, more power to you, ignorance is bliss, but for those of us that can't, it's essentially worthless. Agree?


i would normally lean more towards we did it and somehow just lost the info as to how they did actually do it if the things they built were within they're capability of buildin. when i watch dudes on shows buildin large bridges or buildins an they have a hard time movin and puttin in place multi ton pieces...not to mention they're prolly nowhere near the weight of some of the stones these ancient sites have and i just think if it would be this hard for us to do that with all the shit we have today how in the fuck did they do that back then? and thats what keeps me leanin towards they had help from somethin. i see your logic in the same way as you're seein mine. you dont have sufficient evidence they were here so you dont believe it. i dont have sufficient evidence that they built it on their own so i dont not believe it, but its very hard to believe. so for those of you who "cant" i say open your minds more as well and if it doesnt matter to you then thats cool, but it doesnt mean it doesnt matter to other. agree?


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## tyler.durden (Apr 22, 2012)

ismokealotofpot said:


> You think yer fukin cute huh? must not know what im talking about. none of you? its a pity really. day in day out you go about your lives getting fat. your preparing yourselves for the big harvest.




Only thing gettin' fat and preparing for harvest around here are my green ladies 
.........O........


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## lime73 (Apr 22, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> ...................


i know hey...i didn't get an invite either?


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## tyler.durden (Apr 22, 2012)

lime73 said:


> i know hey...i didn't get an invite either?


Hesmokesa*lot*ofpot...


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## lime73 (Apr 22, 2012)

or not enough


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## mindphuk (Apr 22, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> i would normally lean more towards we did it and somehow just lost the info as to how they did actually do it if the things they built were within they're capability of buildin. when i watch dudes on shows buildin large bridges or buildins an they have a hard time movin and puttin in place multi ton pieces...not to mention they're prolly nowhere near the weight of some of the stones these ancient sites have and i just think if it would be this hard for us to do that with all the shit we have today how in the fuck did they do that back then? and thats what keeps me leanin towards they had help from somethin. i see your logic in the same way as you're seein mine. you dont have sufficient evidence they were here so you dont believe it. i dont have sufficient evidence that they built it on their own so i dont not believe it, but its very hard to believe. so for those of you who "cant" i say open your minds more as well and if it doesnt matter to you then thats cool, but it doesnt mean it doesnt matter to other. agree?


Yet you don't seem to have problems with the ancient Greek and Romans moving similarly sized blocks of stone? Just because the plans and the scaffolding are no longer there does not mean that these things moved by magic (or aliens). Your problem as you describe it is that you don't have sufficient evidence they did it on their own yet it doesn't appear that you have thoroughly studied ancient building techniques. The evidence is there but you have to look for it. You are also violating Occam's Razor by introducing a fact that would add more complexity to the issue but have failed to produce any reason (evidence) for this addition. IOW, you say aliens and advanced building methods while providing nothing but your lack of knowledge of how it was really done. This is a classic argument from ignorance.


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## progenitor04 (Apr 22, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxB1hHjHj84


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 22, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Yet you don't seem to have problems with the ancient Greek and Romans moving similarly sized blocks of stone? Just because the plans and the scaffolding are no longer there does not mean that these things moved by magic (or aliens). Your problem as you describe it is that you don't have sufficient evidence they did it on their own yet it doesn't appear that you have thoroughly studied ancient building techniques. The evidence is there but you have to look for it. You are also violating Occam's Razor by introducing a fact that would add more complexity to the issue but have failed to produce any reason (evidence) for this addition. IOW, you say aliens and advanced building methods while providing nothing but your lack of knowledge of how it was really done. This is a classic argument from ignorance.



if it was soo easily explained by ancient buildin techniques then why is it still a mystery as to how they made them? occam's razor can eat a dick. ive looked a lot and i have not seen anythin that would convince me that they did it themselves so your whole didnt study it enough is out. the only ignorance i see is people who say its just not possible. i can provide shit that would give more credit to us havin help, but it isnt proof and thats all you little science fiends cry for is proof all the time. open your mind for a minute and realize you dont have everythin figured out by science. many scienctist were damn sure black holes didnt exist and the thought was stupid and wasnt believed...till they found one. oh and i have a problem with any civilization that was movin blocks of stone that would be hard for us to move today. they come into question too.


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## DreamTime (Apr 22, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> all you little science fiends cry for is proof all the time.


What is the basis for evaluating people's assertions if no proof is required?

Having these conversations without any expectation of proof seems like swallowing bullshit wrapped in candy.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 22, 2012)

DreamTime said:


> What is the basis for evaluating people's assertions if no proof is required?
> 
> Having these conversations without any expectation of proof seems like swallowing bullshit wrapped in candy.


POWNAGE! +Rep right there. Some people say the silliest things, and then they dont bother to take the time to think about how silly it is.


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 22, 2012)

DreamTime said:


> What is the basis for evaluating people's assertions if no proof is required?
> 
> Having these conversations without any expectation of proof seems like swallowing bullshit wrapped in candy.


when i wrote that it meant if there isnt proof to somethin then it isnt it. dont try and twist my shit. whats silly is the blindness you have when its not somethin you agree with.


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## mindphuk (Apr 22, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> if it was soo easily explained by ancient buildin techniques then why is it still a mystery as to how they made them?


Once again, I will point out that a mystery does not mean that we don't have some idea, for some structures, there is more than one hypothesis. It's a mystery because all of the clues to the actual methods are gone. It's a mystery only in details, not in the people that are responsible for building them. 



> occam's razor can eat a dick.


So you care nothing for parsimony. For you, wild ass speculation about things is just as valid as sincere, critical examination? Great. I guess I know to just ignore everything you say because you care nothing for reason.


> ive looked a lot and i have not seen anythin that would convince me that they did it themselves


Actually, the idea that a civilization made their own structures should be assumed unless you have compelling reason to believe otherwise. 


> so your whole didnt study it enough is out.


You obviously haven't studied it enough if you haven't found respectable engineers and archaeologists that have presented possible techniques. I have never come across any structure that doesn't have some sort of earthly, human explanation. 


> the only ignorancei see is





> people who say its just not possible.


No one is saying it's not possible. People are saying we need good reason to accept a hypothesis that has no support besides conjecture. 


> i can





> provide shit that would give more credit to us havin help, but it isnt proof and thats all you little science fiends cry for is proof all the time.


My new friend DreamTime has said all that is needed to on this comment. 


> o





> pen your mind for a minute and realize you dont have everythin figured out by science. many scienctist were damn sure black holes didnt exist and the thought was stupid and wasnt believed...till they found one. oh and i have a problem with any civilization that was movin blocks of stone that would be hard for us to move today. they come into question too.


You confuse open-minded with credulity. Everything that science now believes is true is because of reasonable, rational, objective look at the evidence. We didn't believe in black holes just because someone imagined them, even after the math said they might be possible. We only accepted them as part of reality when we gained evidence they actually exist. 

Again, you are mistaking the idea that our modern equipment like a sky crane should somehow be better than thousands of men, sometimes slaves, sometimes citizens. You also seem to forget the timescales in which we expect a building to go up. A king or pharaoh could have decades for his monument to be built. Some structures in history, like Stonehenge have evidence that they were built over many generations, possibly centuries. This doesn't prove that humans created them but it certainly helps us understand how they might have done it without resorting to a deus ex machina.


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## cannabineer (Apr 22, 2012)

Blazinkill, proof (and the necessity for it) comes in levels of rigor. When making a scientific claim, the need for proof is fairly strict, and the need for a transparent and consequent chain of evidence is built in.
When making a softer claim, softer sorts of proof or support will do. 
For something like suggesting aliens were involved, the premise is extraordinary and would have serious consequences, so it's reasonable to require a supporting story that is more than just plausible ... it should make competing theories or models less plausible. Videos have been posted of one man building megalithic structures out of ten-ton blocks of concrete ... using simplest tools, a sharp mind and a lot of patience. 
So for 200 neolithic men working as a team to dress, move and raise a 1000-ton stone enters the realm of the very plausible. And it avoids positing extrahuman help, which runs into the problem of there not having been a single plausible, documentable, testable instance of that happening. Since that really is an extraordinary claim, almost all careful thinkers will handle it with the figurative equivalent of lead-lined gloves - unless/until a truly juicy bit of evidence comes to light, and survives the fact tests ... it's best all around to mark the "alien help" theories as extremely unlikely. cn


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## lawless420 (Apr 22, 2012)

i believe there is other life ............ but if there anything like us then they could have already wiped themselfs out


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 22, 2012)

You gotta be fuckin stupid to not think theres other life, you think Earth just happends to be the only lucky planet in the universe to somehow acquire life? You never thought that the government would try there best to hide this stuff because of culture shock?


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 23, 2012)

mindphuk im not gonna talk to you about this anymore because half of the shit you say is answered by what i wrote before. i cant help if you wont take it as evidence.

canna i get that its a reach that why in my first post i said and if it wasnt by aliens i wanna know what kinda lost stuff they used to build them and who did and how did they go about it. i never once said thats what i thought for sure.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> mindphuk im not gonna talk to you about this anymore because half of the shit you say is answered by what i wrote before. i cant help if you wont take it as evidence.
> 
> canna i get that its a reach that why in my first post i said and if it wasnt by aliens i wanna know what kinda lost stuff they used to build them and who did and how did they go about it. i never once said thats what i thought for sure.


Dude, dont even bother with these guys, there not gunna listen to you, they'd rather resort to simple explanations that are easy to cope with and they will try their best to lay out a case infront of you like they are trying to win the approval of a judge. Theres no personality to these people what so ever, its kinda like arguing with a robot then they come at you with the calculated monotone'd scientific facts.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

"its like mushrooms times a million plus ALIENS!" 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6RBOIgtzEE


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 23, 2012)

Who knows what the possability is that evolution would create intelligent life in other parts of the galaxy? Who knows what processes must happen in order to create life, especially intelligent ones? Um.... no one? To claim something exists without any evidence to support that claim...is the only stupid thing being said.

It would be different if you were to say, well... regardless of there not being any evidence to support my claim, i really like the idea of aleins existing. -Truth

Aleins exist because i have this gut feeling they do. -False

Because of the lack of evidence proving the existence of aliens, by default...i like the idea that aliens dont exist. -Truth

When you believe (claim truth to) in something without any tangable evidence, you are lying to yourself... telling yourself you know something that you really...don't...know.

Personally, i like the idea that aliens exist... even though i am not certain if they do or not. Someday we may find out, maybe not, but as we all SHOULD know... "Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence"


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## mindphuk (Apr 23, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> mindphuk im not gonna talk to you about this anymore because half of the shit you say is answered by what i wrote before. i cant help if you wont take it as evidence.
> 
> canna i get that its a reach that why in my first post i said and if it wasnt by aliens i wanna know what kinda lost stuff they used to build them and who did and how did they go about it. i never once said thats what i thought for sure.


That's right. When someone attempts to demonstrate how your claims are not based on reason and rationality, you prefer to just end the discussion because you actually DON'T have the evidence you claim to have. Everything you say amounts to special pleading. If you really had something, you wouldn't run away from someone's criticism just because they are skeptical.


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## DreamTime (Apr 23, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> dont try and twist my shit.


I assure you I will never do that. I&#8217;m not into the whole 2 girls 1 cup stuff 

But seriously:



blazinkill504 said:


> whats silly is the blindness you have when its not somethin you agree with.


I haven't agreed or disagreed with anything in this topic so far. My response to you was my first post in this thread.

However, based on what I've read in the subsequent posts, it sounds like there are two mind sets here. One group that is basically approaching this as a casual conversation amongst friends where some bullshit and hyperbole will be expected and no proof is required. The other group is coming at this from a more academic/scientific perspective where bullshit and hyperbole will get stomped on without mercy. 

The outcome of any attempt to exchange ideas between these two groups seems fairly predictable, and bares out in these threads. You can&#8217;t have the Harvard debate team walk into a drunken super bowl party and try engage the group in a discussion about free will. The very thought of doing that is comedic&#8230;. yet here we are doing just that. 

Given the absurdity of the situation I don&#8217;t see any point in getting pissed off about what transpires in here. As maddening as it must be for some people, I find this absolutely fascinating.


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## Farfenugen (Apr 23, 2012)

I heard the Brady Bunch kids were all aliens at one point


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## tyler.durden (Apr 23, 2012)

DreamTime said:


> I assure you I will never do that. I&#8217;m not into the whole 2 girls 1 cup stuff
> 
> But seriously:
> 
> ...


I felt the same way when I first stumbled upon this sub-forum  You're funny and I like your style, +rep...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Who knows what the possability is that evolution would create intelligent life in other parts of the galaxy? Who knows what processes must happen in order to create life, especially intelligent ones? Um.... no one? To claim something exists without any evidence to support that claim...is the only stupid thing being said.
> 
> It would be different if you were to say, well... regardless of there not being any evidence to support my claim, i really like the idea of aleins existing. -Truth
> 
> ...


Said the fish discussing the existence of land life.


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## mindphuk (Apr 23, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> I felt the same way when I first stumbled upon this sub-forum  You're funny and I like your style, +rep...


+1. What I find fascinating is how DreamTime has only 36 posts but already receiving enough reps to put Chief Wankin' Sparrow to shame.


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## mindphuk (Apr 23, 2012)

DreamTime said:


> I assure you I will never do that. I&#8217;m not into the whole 2 girls 1 cup stuff
> 
> But seriously:
> 
> ...


I would say there's a third group. The first two you mentioned, the other are the people that drop in on the casual conversation about what-ifs and make declarations of fact about the topic. Most of us hardcore skeptics have no problem with people speculating and ongoing conjecture. What we have a problem with is when people make claims such as -- we have no idea how ancient humans could have done x, y and z. When it's pointed out that is not entirely correct and is something they should really look into if they are actually interested, some of these folks get quite belligerent and misunderstand criticism of a claim as a personal attack and begin turning up the heat.


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## DreamTime (Apr 23, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> +1. What I find fascinating is how DreamTime has only 36 posts but already receiving enough reps to put Chief Wankin' Sparrow to shame.


Apparently I got some rep from post I made that got zapped when everything crash a few months ago... So basically I cheated.


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## tyler.durden (Apr 23, 2012)

DreamTime said:


> Apparently I got some rep from post I made that got zapped when everything crash a few months ago... So basically I cheated.


+ rep for honesty


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 23, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> I would say there's a third group. The first two you mentioned, the other are the people that drop in on the casual conversation about what-ifs and make declarations of fact about the topic. Most of us hardcore skeptics have no problem with people speculating and ongoing conjecture. What we have a problem with is when people make claims such as -- we have no idea how ancient humans could have done x, y and z. When it's pointed out that is not entirely correct and is something they should really look into if they are actually interested, some of these folks get quite belligerent and misunderstand criticism of a claim as a personal attack and begin turning up the heat.


i like this^


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## DreamTime (Apr 23, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> I would say there's a third group. The first two you mentioned, the other are the people that drop in on the casual conversation about what-ifs and make declarations of fact about the topic. Most of us hardcore skeptics have no problem with people speculating and ongoing conjecture. What we have a problem with is when people make claims such as -- we have no idea how ancient humans could have done x, y and z. When it's pointed out that is not entirely correct and is something they should really look into if they are actually interested, some of these folks get quite belligerent and misunderstand criticism of a claim as a personal attack and begin turning up the heat.


Yea, I've seen more than a few examples of the 3rd group you describe along with people committing logical fallacies that are both funny and scary at the same time. Reading a discussion between someone who is explaining a logical fallacy to someone who has unwittingly committed one but doesnt understand can be hysterical in a hair-pulling who's-on-first kind of way.


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## jessy koons (Apr 23, 2012)

The 3rd group is the group that will take over the world. We are brave, irreverent and not the least bit afraid to get very drunk on a Tuesday night. We are seldom right but we are very loud about it and absolutely certain that we are loud enough. We don't care for facts if they get in the way of making a point about which we feel strongly. We are not afraid to be wrong and we will defend whatever it was that we said no matter how wrong it my be. Beware of conversations with us because they are not likely to go your way and that's how we want it.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

jessy koons said:


> The 3rd group is the group that will take over the world. We are brave, irreverent and not the least bit afraid to get very drunk on a Tuesday night. We are seldom right but we are very loud about it and absolutely certain that we are loud enough. We don't care for facts if they get in the way of making a point about which we feel strongly. We are not afraid to be wrong and we will defend whatever it was that we said no matter how wrong it my be. Beware of conversations with us because they are not likely to go your way and that's how we want it.


xD awesome


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 23, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> That's right. When someone attempts to demonstrate how your claims are not based on reason and rationality, you prefer to just end the discussion because you actually DON'T have the evidence you claim to have. Everything you say amounts to special pleading. If you really had something, you wouldn't run away from someone's criticism just because they are skeptical.


nah you got it twisted im not gonna talk to YOU further about it because apparently you're soo wrapped up on what goes on in your brain and what you think you dont bother to read everythin correctly.


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 23, 2012)

DreamTime said:


> I assure you I will never do that. Im not into the whole 2 girls 1 cup stuff
> 
> But seriously:
> 
> ...


i get that i also know you dont have to have a book tell you that somethin could be a reason as to how some things are. just because there isnt iron clad proof doesnt mean it was one of the possibilities


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

These idiots need a well respected man of science to tell them if something is real or not, kind of sad, isnt it? Its kinda like they dont even have their own opinion of things like these, just copy the opinions from people of the past... Perhaps they are fearful of the unbelievable and unexplainable because accepting something that doesnt correspond with their very very limited scientific sense of reality would alter their paradigm, they would rather keep it nice and simple and not think about things that mess with their head.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 23, 2012)

Here, this one will help explain things a little better as well.



^ "Uncertainty in the presence of vivid hopes, dreams and fears can be very painful... but must be endured if we wish to live our lives without the support of comforting fairy tales"


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Here, this one will help explain things a little better as well.
> 
> View attachment 2135500
> 
> ^ "Uncertainty in the presence of vivid hopes, dreams and fears can be very painful... but must be endured if we wish to live our lives without the support of comforting fairy tales"


See, this is exactly what I mean Blazinkill lol


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## DreamTime (Apr 23, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> These idiots need a well respected man of science to tell them if something is real or not, kind of sad, isnt it? Its kinda like they dont even have their own opinion of things like these, just copy the opinions from people of the past... Perhaps they are fearful of the unbelievable and unexplainable because accepting something that doesnt correspond with their very very limited scientific sense of reality would alter their paradigm, they would rather keep it nice and simple and not think about things that mess with their head.


As one of the idiots you refer to, I am genuinely interested in your thought process here. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would like to run something by you:

Would it be fair to say that you don't believe evidence should be given as much weight as we are giving it? If so, what should we be using as a method for differentiating the merits of various ideas? Or maybe you believe our definition of evidence is too narrow and is excluding legitimate data. If so, do you have a definition we could reference so we understand what you mean when you refer to &#8220;evidence&#8221;? Thanks.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

DreamTime said:


> As one of the idiots you refer to, I am genuinely interested in your thought process here. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would like to run something by you:
> 
> Would it be fair to say that you don't believe evidence should be given as much weight as we are giving it? If so, what should we be using as a method for differentiating the merits of various ideas? Or maybe you believe our definition of evidence is too narrow and is excluding legitimate data. If so, do you have a definition we could reference so we understand what you mean when you refer to &#8220;evidence&#8221;? Thanks.


ah EVIDENCE! It always seems to come down to evidence for some reason... If I were to say "eye witnesses" for evidence you would say "tricks of the mind". If I were to refer to ancient texts you'd probably say they are like the bible and are wrong. If I were to refer to modern teachings of the divine science of spirit then I would be labelled a new age hippie... Theres really nothing we can do to prove anything to you people because you have such an atheistic scientific point of view, you go back to the words of great men of the past and use that as your platform of knowledge... but we are not in the past anymore... I think theres enough amazing mysteries in the world to make people accept that theres a lot more to life that we just cant comprehend because we have no way to... I think DMT is our best evidence of a spiritual world and of intelligent extraterrestrials. DMT is the most potent psychedelic drug known to man and we produce it every night when we sleep, it is produced from the Pineal gland (aka Third Eye) and it also floods our brain with DMT right before we die... DMT was put through experiments and often the the people using it would find themselves sharing DMT trips and talking to the same intelligent being... My man Joe Rogan explains DMT the best, I have yet to use it but I plan to soon. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6RBOIgtzEE


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 23, 2012)

Its funny you think us men of science dont have sweet ass ideas. Here, ill give RIU a good amount of time spent on some sweet ideas i have come up with.

God exists, yet time does not... it is an illusion, the only time is now... this moment. we are all just playing a game, we humans call it reality. no one has ever seen god, but you can experience IT. What we experience can never be explained, nor understood even by ourselves. god is merely asking us all a question... a very simple question, do you want to come home? are you ready to stop playing the game yet? In reality, we live out the same lives, over, and over, and over again... it is a never ending cycle, explaining deja vu experiences. When we die, we are born again in the same time, the same person, the same life... until we decide we are done playing the game and want to come home. How do you stop playing the game? You just stop, you sit, stop, and you eventually die of dehydration with the complete thought that you are done playing the game, only then, when you die, can you return to true reality.

God exists, it is the christian god. he has all the atributes of what we humans think of when we think of a power hungry, controlling, jealous selfish human. We are all trapped in a never ending cycle of death and rebirth, living the same "hell" over and over again, yet karma exists... and we reincarnate as something else higher or lower depending on the "good deeds" done while living out our lives, until we make the decision to have faith in jesus, ask god to forgive our sins, and then when we die, we get to go to heaven.

God does not exist, existence has always existed... there was never nothing, always something. We are really genetically engineered biological/mechanic beings with eternal life. (Produced by our super intelligence far off into what we perceive now... as the future) There is a list, of infinite different possibilities of existence we may choose to emulate in massively complex computer programs designed to emulate emotion, pain, happiness etc. etc. We spend our time of eternity experiencing different aspects of whatever our unimaginable imaginations can come up with. (Im going to pick star wars emulation next).

God does not exist, existence is merely the evolution of nothingness. The universe is merely the evolution of existence. Life is merely the evolution of the universe. Consciousness is merely the evolution of life. Acceptance of absurdity is merely the evolution of consciousness. Death means to cease to exist, life means to live as happily as we can  before we die. 

God exists, god is not a human, creature, nor being. god is merely the sound we give in an attempt to explain the first "IDEA" to ever spawn from nothingness. What we live in now, is merely a dream. A dream of an infinite amount of dreams created by the first idea, branching off into infinite different possibilities... some not even possible from our perspective. There are multiple and infinite universes being born every moment of every moment, each representing a different outcome of reality based on certian ideas created as a byproduct from god (life) Nothing is reality, everything is just a dream.

I have many, many, many more cool sweet ideas to share if anyone cares to hear. But my point to this, is that no matter what i think, these ideas i just wrote about... are just that, IDEAS. There is no amount of certainty pertaining to any of these thoughts. Just because i want something to be real or true, does not make it real or true. 

Correct, it is up to me, to figure out for myself what is real and what is not... what is the closest approximation to truth and what is false. But no matter who you are, where you came from or what you think... it does not matter what you want to be true. Unless you have some sort of evidence, or tangible proof of some idea you have, whatever it is that you believe... you are merely lying to yourself and telling yourself it is true only because you want it to be true, regardless of lack of evidence, or evidence found that contradicts whatever idea you cling to so dearly.

It is up to each and everyone of us to choose weather we want to be completely honest with ourselves about what we know, and what we don't know (the wiser ones)... or just believe what we want to believe because its what we like best, regardless of available evidence or lack there of (The fools and fanatics).


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## tyler.durden (Apr 23, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> ah EVIDENCE! It always seems to come down to evidence for some reason... If I were to say "eye witnesses" for evidence you would say "tricks of the mind". If I were to refer to ancient texts you'd probably say they are like the bible and are wrong. If I were to refer to modern teachings of the divine science of spirit then I would be labelled a new age hippie... Theres really nothing we can do to prove anything to you people because you have such an atheistic scientific point of view, you go back to the words of great men of the past and use that as your platform of knowledge... but we are not in the past anymore... *I think theres enough amazing mysteries in the world to make people accept that theres a lot more to life that we just cant comprehend because we have no way to...* I think DMT is our best evidence of a spiritual world and of intelligent extraterrestrials. DMT is the most potent psychedelic drug known to man and we produce it every night when we sleep, it is produced from the Pineal gland (aka Third Eye) and it also floods our brain with DMT right before we die... DMT was put through experiments and often the the people using it would find themselves sharing DMT trips and talking to the same intelligent being... My man Joe Rogan explains DMT the best, I have yet to use it but I plan to soon.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6RBOIgtzEE


It's the bolded part of your post that I just don't get: This 'more to life than we can comprehend', if we can't comprehend it how do you know it exists? One of us is missing something here...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> It's the bolded part of your post that I just don't get: This 'more to life than we can comprehend', if we can't comprehend it how do you know it exists? One of us is missing something here...


What I meant is that we cant explain it because we have no way to, because if science cant explain it, what can? apparently nothing can, from a scientists point of view. We cant say spiritual teachings explain it because once again we would get directed to science saying that theres no evidence of anything spiritual.


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## tyler.durden (Apr 23, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Its funny you think us men of science dont have sweet ass ideas. Here, ill give RIU a good amount of time spent on some sweet ideas i have come up with.
> 
> God exists, yet time does not... it is an illusion, the only time is now... this moment. we are all just playing a game, we humans call it reality. no one has ever seen god, but you can experience IT. What we experience can never be explained, nor understood even by ourselves. god is merely asking us all a question... a very simple question, do you want to come home? are you ready to stop playing the game yet? In reality, we live out the same lives, over, and over, and over again... it is a never ending cycle, explaining deja vu experiences. When we die, we are born again in the same time, the same person, the same life... until we decide we are done playing the game and want to come home. How do you stop playing the game? You just stop, you sit, stop, and you eventually die of dehydration with the complete thought that you are done playing the game, only then, when you die, can you return to true reality.
> 
> ...


This was cool. I've had similar thoughts, thanks for sharing. +rep...


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## tyler.durden (Apr 23, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> What I meant is that we cant explain it because we have no way to, because if science cant explain it, what can? apparently nothing can, from a scientists point of view. We cant say spiritual teachings explain it because once again we would get directed to science saying that theres no evidence of anything spiritual.


Everything that I experience in my life, I can comprehend. You are saying that there are things that you experience that you cannot comprehend. I guess this is the reason I can't understand where you're coming from. It must be scary sometimes to live in a world in which you have experiences that you can't comprehend. I understand that Alzheimer's patients report similar experiences...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Everything that I experience in my life, I can comprehend. You are saying that there are things that you experience that you cannot comprehend. I guess this is the reason I can't understand where you're coming from. It must be scary sometimes to live in a world in which you have experiences that you can't comprehend. I understand that Alzheimer's patients report similar experiences...


lol misunderstanding and twisting my words again, BIG surprise... I didnt say I had experiences that I couldnt comprehend, sure I couldnt comprehend them at the time because I was filled with shock and astonishment, but soon after I was able to accept it as reality once I talked to a few certain people... Now the question is could YOU comprehend what I experienced? Maybe but probably not. I know a group of guys that witnessed and experienced unbelievable things multiple times, they know what they seen and felt to be real yet they block it out of their heads. I try to talk about it and they just acknowledge its amazing and real then they change the subject, they are scared of these things, Its pathetic! Amazing, unexplainable things have happend to them and they are too scared to understand exactly what happend, so they just block it out... I seem to be the only one whos not fearful of the things Im talking about (besides the guy that made those amazing things happen). But wouldnt everyone with limited imagination be scared if something unbelievable and unexplainable happend infront of their eyes?


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## tyler.durden (Apr 23, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol misunderstanding and twisting my words again, BIG surprise... I didnt say I had experiences that I couldnt comprehend, sure I couldnt comprehend them at the time because I was filled with shock and astonishment, but soon after I was able to accept it as reality once I talked to a few certain people... Now the question is could YOU comprehend what I experienced? Maybe but probably not. I know a group of guys that witnessed and experienced unbelievable things multiple times, they know what they seen and felt to be real yet they block it out of their heads. I try to talk about it and they just acknowledge its amazing and real then they change the subject, they are scared of these things, Its pathetic! Amazing, unexplainable things have happend to them and they are too scared to understand exactly what happend, so they just block it out... I seem to be the only one whos not fearful of the things Im talking about (besides the guy that made those amazing things happen). But wouldnt everyone with limited imagination be scared if something unbelievable and unexplainable happend infront of their eyes?


I would love to have amazing and unbelievable things happen before my eyes in real life! I don't know why the guys in your story are afraid to talk about a shared experience, no matter how extraordinary. I do find it strange that while you and these guys have witnessed so many unbelievable events in your life, none of these events have ever happened in front of skeptics/critical thinkers/scientists. There's a guy named James Randy that will pay anyone one million dollars to show him anything supernatural/spiritual. Many have tried, all have been hoaxes. Economic times are rough, you should go get that dough...

P.S. I'd love to hear the specifics of these unbelievable events, please share one or two...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> I would love to have amazing and unbelievable things happen before my eyes in real life! I don't know why the guys in your story are afraid to talk about a shared experience, no matter how extraordinary. I do find it strange that while you and these guys have witnessed so many unbelievable events in your life, none of these events have ever happened in front of skeptics/critical thinkers/scientists. There's a guy named James Randy that will pay anyone one million dollars to show him anything supernatural/spiritual. Many have tried, all have been hoaxes. Economic times are rough, you should go get that dough...
> 
> P.S. I'd love to hear the specifics of these unbelievable events, please share one or two...


I think they are scared of it because they have simple minds, bunch of 17-19 year olds who just wanna party and get laid... And I guess none of these events never happend to skeptics is because spiritual beings and aliens feel that they have nothing to prove, thats just what I think.

The amazing experiences are kind of a long story... I became friends with this kid who claimed he was a Godly being of higher consciousness, so my reaction was "Yeah fuckn right". But after a few times talking about these types of things it ALMOST seemed like he knew what he was talking about, he would say things that Buddha would say and he was very insightful, he said a lot of things that I already believed in... So I started listening to this guy some more, listening to what ever craziness that comes out of his mouth and see if I can find a shred of truth to it... So one night a group of us were walking to get a bag of weed, enjoying the silence, and I got to thinking of his words. He said it was weird that I had a multi-colored Aura, and he said his Aura was white with golden hands and golden crown. Anyways, when we were walking I thought "He said I could have an Aura like his, wonder if thats true" and when I thought that, he looked at me and said "No you cant, shane" to which I said "WHAAAT??!!?!" my mind was fucking blown to say the least, because he just answered a question that I THOUGHT of... The rest of that silent walk was pretty interesting... I was freaking out that someone was in my head, I felt scared and violated, like I had no privacy what so ever... My mind was in a panic but I kept my composure. My mind started wondering to things that I was ashamed of and I couldnt think of anything else because I kept thinking "Does he know this about me now? shit! now he does because I thought of it!"... So after those thoughts of panic and anxiety he looked at me and said "Shane, your faults are what define you, they are the diamond of your being" ... And those words put me at ease.

A few times after that I was uncomfortable hanging around him because I knew if he was included in my thought process then he would be able to read the thought. We're cool now though, I just decided not to care if he read my mind, because I know he doesnt care, he is completely non judgemental because I know that he knows my secrets (not that Im some freak) and it didnt make him think any less of me. 

The 19 year old Im talking about is very unassuming, he is a punk-looking skater who parties a lot, someone you usually dont go seeking advice from. But you cannot deny the kids abilities to read minds and a few other things. He only tells you and shows you these things if you are somewhat opened minded and willing to learn something from it, he doesnt go around preaching the amazing truth of reality to people. He doesnt want exposure or popularity because of what he can do, he just wants to inform certain people in his life of whats really going on, then those people can inform certain people and so on, but its kinda hard to pass along when you dont have the abilities to read minds lol

I've experienced much more than mind reading with him, he said because I had these certain experiences it means that I am special in a way, like he is... Which leads me to ponder "if Im so special, what is my purpose?" I got a feeling Im going to find that out soon... 

Knowing these things can indeed give someone a big head though, "I know something you dont know!" <-- that kinda thing. It can also make you question your sanity, I have a couple of times, but I didnt struggle with it often.

Btw... The guy Im talking about claims to be a creation of Archangel Michael... And he has a circle of friends that have similar abilities to his, I am apart of that circle now but I only met one of his friends, the one that he calls his master (master of knowledge that is, he doesnt tell him what to do and shit). And Im looking forward to meeting the other two, one is apparently an Oracle that can tell me more about who I am and give hints to my purpose in this world. 

I can go on and on about his stories and what he says to be true, the kid has a lot to say, but I also believe hes not living up to his potential at all. If I were able to read minds, I would become a spiritual assassin and murder the evil ones in power and save the planet, or at least try and shine the light on spirituality and reality, but hes just a skater punk who parties and works 7/11. I dont get it, maybe hes just waiting for something... Anyways, thats ONE of my crazy experiences, hope you enjoyed


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## Wilksey (Apr 23, 2012)

> *17-19 year olds who just wanna party and get laid... *


Pretty much sums up my 17-19 year old days.

Granted, I worked and went to school, but the school was mandatory, and work supported the "party and get laid" part of that equation.


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## cannabineer (Apr 23, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Everything that I experience in my life, I can comprehend. You are saying that there are things that you experience that you cannot comprehend. I guess this is the reason I can't understand where you're coming from. It must be scary sometimes to live in a world in which you have experiences that you can't comprehend. I understand that Alzheimer's patients report similar experiences...


Tyler, I have experienced a few things myself that I cannot easily explain, or explain away. 
I am not troubled by this because I have no faith in the capacity of the human mind to comprehend all of it ... to posit such is in violation of Gödel's theorem imo. 
Of course I have scientifically plausible explanations to hand, but they are tentative, and I suspect them of being facile. So I won't commit to a pure-materialistic worldview ... but I'll be a rather tough customer _in re_ ideas of spirit. I have noticed that people in general have an amazing, driving, at times desperate need to have it all make sense. Imo this drives some into a sort of hard-bitten materialist antitheism ... and others in pursuit of the mystical. 

A consequence of this that i have seen is that many people will latch onto ideas or philosophies that Explain Stuff, but they will do so without keeping their faculties of discernment in play. How else explain the massive support for such proven scams as homeopathy, astrology and the doings and sayings of men in black robes? With so much noise, i don't see signal ... but I'm not entitled, or so arrogant, as to say that there is definitively no signal from something genuinely spiritual, not-self. But my capacity for credulity is sharply restrained by my knowledge that we humans have a talent for sensing magic and spirit where there often is demonstrably none. It's my nature to err on the side of caution. 

So i live in a world that contains, and has presented, experiences that I cannot fit into an internally and externally consistent world-concept without applying some force. So I content myself with ... not doing so. Some may see this as quitting. I prefer to present it as humility. I may or may not get some answers before my time is called ... but I do have faith that once it is, I get to have an unlimited carefree rest from existence. Let the youngsters take the reins, and hope that they don't run the whole team off a cliff. cn


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## KronDonSmoker (Apr 23, 2012)

All I know is if I was ever visited by aliens the first thing i would do is offer a peace pipe and figure out a common language and see if they have any sweet space weed...I would think personally Minds advanced enough to travel through space lightyears at a time would evolve passed the idiotic thing we call violence in this world...Thats the hippie in me talking though...Would be cool to meet one though


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

KronDonSmoker said:


> All I know is if I was ever visited by aliens the first thing i would do is offer a peace pipe and figure out a common language and see if they have any sweet space weed...I would think personally Minds advanced enough to travel through space lightyears at a time would evolve passed the idiotic thing we call violence in this world...Thats the hippie in me talking though...Would be cool to meet one though


Get high on DMT and you will probably meet one, you also might meet a God as well.


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## tyler.durden (Apr 24, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Tyler, I have experienced a few things myself that I cannot easily explain, or explain away.
> I am not troubled by this because I have no faith in the capacity of the human mind to comprehend all of it ... to posit such is in violation of Gödel's theorem imo.
> Of course I have scientifically plausible explanations to hand, but they are tentative, and I suspect them of being facile. So I won't commit to a pure-materialistic worldview ... but I'll be a rather tough customer _in re_ ideas of spirit. I have noticed that people in general have an amazing, driving, at times desperate need to have it all make sense. Imo this drives some into a sort of hard-bitten materialist antitheism ... and others in pursuit of the mystical.
> 
> ...


I totally get what you're saying, Neer. I simply haven't had these experiences, so I cannot relate. While I admit that I do prefer certain ideas about existence that I'd like to be true, I'm not aware of being invested enough in these ideas that I would deny anything reality would show me. Having said that, if I saw something happen that was outside the laws of physics as I understand them (meeting jesus and watching him levitate, or watching a car turn into a cow), the first thought I would have is that I was hallucinating for some physical reason as opposed to believing I've just witnessed the supernatural. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the supernatural, but that possibility would take a back seat to the possible rational explanations (Occam's razor and all that). So, I guess I'll hold a pure-materialistic worldview until something else presents itself to me. You know as well as I the pitfalls of human perception, and how easily it can fool us. My worldview has been shattered several major times in my life so far, and I'm still here and thriving, perhaps stronger than ever. So, I don't really fear it happening again. I simply want to understand reality as best I can, whatever it actually consists of...


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## mindphuk (Apr 24, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> nah you got it twisted im not gonna talk to YOU further about it because apparently you're soo wrapped up on what goes on in your brain and what you think you dont bother to read everythin correctly.


You haven't been able to demonstrate I misunderstood anything you said. Part of conversation and rational argumentation is being clear and doing what you can to make sure you are understood. Instead, all you have done is whine and complain and threaten to stop responding to me, like I fucking care. Run away, don't answer post #1042 because we all know you can't or it will just be more bullshit and you will never respond to the actual substance of my post. People that have confidence in their claims don't avoid answering tough questions and can respond to criticism of their ideas without stomping their feet and claiming the opposition is not understanding them and then shut the door to further elaboration. 

Stop pretending the claims you are making are backed by anything empirical. All of your 'evidence' is reinterpretation of facts to support your wild speculations and ignoring facts that don't fit. Status quo for conspiracy nuts, religious types and woo woos. You really need to learn what evidence actuall is and is not.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> you haven't been able to demonstrate i misunderstood anything you said. Part of conversation and rational argumentation is being clear and doing what you can to make sure you are understood. Instead, all you have done is whine and complain and threaten to stop responding to me, like i fucking care. Run away, don't answer post #1042 because we all know you can't or it will just be more bullshit and you will never respond to the actual substance of my post. People that have confidence in their claims don't avoid answering tough questions and can respond to criticism of their ideas without stomping their feet and claiming the opposition is not understanding them and then shut the door to further elaboration.
> 
> Stop pretending the claims you are making are backed by anything empirical. All of your 'evidence' is reinterpretation of facts to support your wild speculations and ignoring facts that don't fit. Status quo for conspiracy nuts, religious types and woo woos. You really need to learn what evidence actuall is and is not.


destroyed!!!


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## ginjawarrior (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Get high on DMT and you will probably meet one, you also might meet a God as well.



they are not aliens or gods they are hallucinations. you dont get exterior knowledge on dmt everything from the trip comes from and is experienced within. its irresponsible to tell people to take hallucinogenics to try to see an end result


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## Heisenberg (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> These idiots need a well respected man of science to tell them if something is real or not, kind of sad, isnt it? Its kinda like they dont even have their own opinion of things like these, just copy the opinions from people of the past... Perhaps they are fearful of the unbelievable and unexplainable because accepting something that doesnt correspond with their very very limited scientific sense of reality would alter their paradigm, they would rather keep it nice and simple and not think about things that mess with their head.



Science is a systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results. What part of this do you feel is flawed? 


Is it being systematic? Do you feel it is better to be disordered? 


Is it being careful and thorough? You would rather be sloppy and incomplete?


Is it using consistent logic? A better method is random senselessness?

If an idea is truly beyond science, then it is beyond nature, and, naturally, can not be demonstrated to correspond with physical reality in any way. Attempts to do so undermine the very premise you present.


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## Heisenberg (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> ah EVIDENCE! It always seems to come down to evidence for some reason... If I were to say "eye witnesses" for evidence you would say "tricks of the mind". If I were to refer to ancient texts you'd probably say they are like the bible and are wrong. If I were to refer to modern teachings of the divine science of spirit then I would be labelled a new age hippie... Theres really nothing we can do to prove anything to you people because you have such an atheistic scientific point of view, you go back to the words of great men of the past and use that as your platform of knowledge... but we are not in the past anymore... I think theres enough amazing mysteries in the world to make people accept that theres a lot more to life that we just cant comprehend because we have no way to...


So basically your critisism of the 'atheistic scientists' here is...

They don't believe things that are unbelievable

They don't believe things without being careful

They have consistent standards of evidence

They pay too much attention to prior knowledge

They spend too much time explaining their position, sighting sources and demonstrating their point. 


So apparently you disagree with the fundamental academic standards which have lead us to any significant progress you can name. You see the scientific method as a result of being scared and enslaved to ideas of the past, while enjoying the comfort and well being this very progress has brought you. Of course, this is assuming you watch tv, use a computer, aren't starving, and would want antibiotics when you get a tooth abscess. I realize these are not guaranteed assumptions when it comes to you. For all I know you live in a mud hut, would put some sort of toad on your toothache, and post to the web using your mind spirit.

Many of us have been around for a while and recognize this song and dance. Your claims can not live up to these standards and so you belittle them. You do so by using trash talk and name calling but when asked, can not provide any substantial criticism. You pretend to wisdom via the shortcut of posing.

If this is how you choose to approach life then who are we to say you are wrong. Of course that is not what you are saying. You're saying this is the obvious way to view life and anyone who doesn't is an idiot robot. You invite contempt and obviously enjoy it. 

"In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not a 'closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge." - Ian Rowland


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## KronDonSmoker (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Get high on DMT and you will probably meet one, you also might meet a God as well.


Hahahaha what the hell is DMT I will have to google that shit apparently lol


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## DreamTime (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> ah EVIDENCE! It always seems to come down to evidence for some reason... If I were to say "eye witnesses" for evidence you would say "tricks of the mind". If I were to refer to ancient texts you'd probably say they are like the bible and are wrong. If I were to refer to modern teachings of the divine science of spirit then I would be labelled a new age hippie... Theres really nothing we can do to prove anything to you people because you have such an atheistic scientific point of view, you go back to the words of great men of the past and use that as your platform of knowledge... but we are not in the past anymore... I think theres enough amazing mysteries in the world to make people accept that theres a lot more to life that we just cant comprehend because we have no way to... I think DMT is our best evidence of a spiritual world and of intelligent extraterrestrials. DMT is the most potent psychedelic drug known to man and we produce it every night when we sleep, it is produced from the Pineal gland (aka Third Eye) and it also floods our brain with DMT right before we die... DMT was put through experiments and often the the people using it would find themselves sharing DMT trips and talking to the same intelligent being... My man Joe Rogan explains DMT the best, I have yet to use it but I plan to soon.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6RBOIgtzEE


Thanks for the response, but I'm having trouble finding any answer to my questions in your reply. Let me try something a little different...

Would it be fair to say that you have absolutely no interested in the concept of evidence and that evidence does not play a part in your decision making processes?

If evidence does matter to you in some way, please give us your definition of evidence so we can understand what you mean when you speak about evidence. 

Thanks.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 24, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> So basically your critisism of the 'atheistic scientists' here is...
> 
> They don't believe things that are unbelievable
> 
> ...


^Wisdom in a box. It is extremely hard for most people to critique their own self, especially when it might lead to one being wrong or holding onto a contradicting thought. But isn't that how we all learn, we learn from our mistakes?


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## cannabineer (Apr 24, 2012)

KronDonSmoker said:


> Hahahaha what the hell is DMT I will have to google that shit apparently lol


Dimethyltryptamine, a smokable, short-acting and intense psychedelic ... essentially the naked pharmacophore of the indoleethylamine class of psychedelics.

I have smoked it numerous times, and, CWE's confidence notwithstanding, have only managed to encounter ... myself. cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> So basically your critisism of the 'atheistic scientists' here is...
> 
> They don't believe things that are unbelievable
> 
> ...


Lol their you go again Heisenberg, taking what I say, processing it through your computer-like brain then present it to me like an automated android waiting for another subject to pass by that you can dissect and prove false. I believe our point of view of each other is well established, no need to keep repeating yourself with the definition of science and science and what not, its really getting old. And sorry if my name calling and stuff offends you, guess showing a little personality is also frowned upon...
And my claims cant live up to the standards? what standards? Are you talking about SCIENCE again Heisenberg? my my, theres really no hope in explaining these kinds of things to you people.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Dimethyltryptamine, a smokable, short-acting and intense psychedelic ... essentially the naked pharmacophore of the indoleethylamine class of psychedelics.
> 
> I have smoked it numerous times, and, CWE's confidence notwithstanding, have only managed to encounter ... myself. cn


And that makes me wrong how? Maybe you should look up some facts and some studies that were done on DMT, one study had to be stopped because the guy doing the research got too freaked out by the results.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Lol their you go again Heisenberg, taking what I say, processing it through your computer-like brain then present it to me like an automated android waiting for another subject to pass by that you can dissect and prove false. I believe our point of view of each other is well established, no need to keep repeating yourself with the definition of science and science and what not, its really getting old. And sorry if my name calling and stuff offends you, guess showing a little personality is also frowned upon...
> And my claims cant live up to the standards? what standards? Are you talking about SCIENCE again Heisenberg? my my, theres really no hope in explaining these kinds of things to you people.


You can only ever hope to explain unquestioned faiths to yourself... the wiser ones can see right through contradictory, unprovable and fallacious thinking. With these ideas, the only hope you can ever grasp is the hope that you can make yourself believe the ideas you have borrowed from others. Attempting to make others believe is merely congruence to allow yourself to believe as well.

There are those who choose to believe only what they like best, and those who believe only what can be proven to them beyond reasonable doubt... 
It is easy to see which type of psychological behavior belongs to whom.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> You can only ever hope to explain unquestioned faiths to yourself... the wiser ones can see right through contradictory, unprovable and fallacious thinking. With these ideas, the only hope you can ever grasp is the hope that you can make yourself believe the ideas you have borrowed from others. Attempting to make others believe is merely congruence to allow yourself to believe as well.
> 
> There are those who choose to believe only what they like best, and those who believe only what can be proven to them beyond reasonable doubt...
> It is easy to see which type of psychological behavior belongs to whom.


I dont believe what I believe just because of other peoples point of view, I've actually experienced some amazing things that would alter anyones reality no matter how hard they try to rationalize it (things that are not tricks of the mind). I dont believe at all actually, because theres limitations when someone has a belief, I KNOW that most of what I know is true based on amazing experiences that defy science and from knowledgeable people... But bringing up these experiences is kinda useless because I have no way in proving them to be true, well unless you lived here then more than a few people can tell you that they are true.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> You can only ever hope to explain unquestioned faiths to yourself... the wiser ones can see right through contradictory, unprovable and fallacious thinking. With these ideas, the only hope you can ever grasp is the hope that you can make yourself believe the ideas you have borrowed from others. Attempting to make others believe is merely congruence to allow yourself to believe as well.
> 
> There are those who choose to believe only what they like best, and those who believe only what can be proven to them beyond reasonable doubt...
> It is easy to see which type of psychological behavior belongs to whom.


actually they wouldnt even need to tell you its true, you'd just experience it for yourself.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 24, 2012)

I also have had many experiences that i have not been able to explain. The thing about these experiences, are that as soon as you attempt to give meaning to them... you change the experience from what it was (a confusing unexplainable experience) into exactly what you want it to be (a message from god, a spirit etc etc.) 

As soon as you attempt to give meaning to an experience, you change it from what it was... to what you want it to be. Theres no way around it.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

Im pretty sure reading thoughts can only be classified as reading thoughts lol Im pretty sure this is the forum I posted that little story in, I suggest you find it and give it a read.

Page 108


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 24, 2012)

What does reading thoughts (which has never been proven possible, so by default is impossible) have anything to do with what i just said...? 
"I also have had many experiences that i have not been able to explain. The thing about these experiences, are that as soon as you attempt to give meaning to them... you change the experience from what it was (a confusing unexplainable experience) into exactly what you want it to be (a message from god, a spirit etc etc.) 

As soon as you attempt to give meaning to an experience, you change it from what it was... to what you want it to be. There's no way around it."​


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

well you were just suggesting if you give meaning to something unexplainable then most likely your meaning is wrong because its only what you want it to be... Im saying its hard to mistake mind reading as anything else... Read my story I told to Tyler a few pages back... Its up to you to decide if Im a liar or not.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 24, 2012)

You are absolutely right, i cannot read your mind, i cannot experience that which you have experienced. But i know, from my experiences, and from stories of countless others... that when we attempt to give meaning to any experience we have, regardless of it being spiritual or not, it is made into what we want it to be, rather than staying exactly what it is... an experience.

(just consumed 3.5 grams of cracker dry cubensis mushrooms, i love tripping alone... almost as much as i love tripping with friends)


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## Heisenberg (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Lol their you go again Heisenberg, taking what I say, processing it through your computer-like brain then present it to me like an automated android waiting for another subject to pass by that you can dissect and prove false.


Which subject did I attempt to prove false? I was speaking of methodology. You may be getting your posts confused again. Did I mischaracterize your criticism of science? It seems you went right into the typical song and dance and rather than answer any questions or counter any points, you present the same trash talking diatribe. Interesting that you ridicule even the attempt to understand your position, without offering the slightest of clarification.

These questions you keep seeing should have easy answers. It entertaining to see the amount of effort you put into slithering out of simply explaining yourself.



> I believe our point of view of each other is well established, no need to keep repeating yourself with the definition of science and science and what not, its really getting old. And sorry if my name calling and stuff offends you, guess showing a little personality is also frowned upon...


The name calling is not the point. I have thick skin. The point is you only pretend to name call, without being able to give any reason why, aside from dissension. You can't for one sentence defend the things you say, so you fall back on hollow abuse. If I repeat myself it is because you are dodging and ignoring the answer to your ridicule. Regardless if my defense of science is getting old, you will continue to see it.



> And my claims cant live up to the standards? what standards? Are you talking about SCIENCE again Heisenberg? my my, theres really no hope in explaining these kinds of things to you people.


I am talking about careful and thorough study vs half baked teenage mind vomit. You are the one who makes asinine statements and then jumps on anyone who disagrees. You are not just taking a position against science, but sensibility of any kind. You resist any attempts others make to examine and understand your campaign against reason because you don't understand it yourself. You are simply engaging in systematic rejection as a way to achieve cognitive dissonance and self aggrandizement, apparently not caring that you also sacrifice self respect and integrity.

We only need to look to witch burning to see the reasons why it's critical to favor fastidious investigation over groundless speculation. If it were your mother or daughter upon the stake you would be singing a different tune, and if not, then you are without redemption.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> You are absolutely right, i cannot read your mind, i cannot experience that which you have experienced. But i know, from my experiences, and from stories of countless others... that when we attempt to give meaning to any experience we have, regardless of it being spiritual or not, it is made into what we want it to be, rather than staying exactly what it is... an experience.
> 
> (just consumed 3.5 grams of cracker dry cubensis mushrooms, i love tripping alone... almost as much as i love tripping with friends)


 Im not saying you should be able to read my mind, Im saying I have had my mind read multiple times, that is the experience that Im giving meaning to, and theres really no other way of putting it... When your mind is getting read you know that its getting read, Im not giving it false meaning when I say someone read my thoughts and answered my questions when I only think them.


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## tyler.durden (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I think they are scared of it because they have simple minds, bunch of 17-19 year olds who just wanna party and get laid... And I guess none of these events never happend to skeptics is because spiritual beings and aliens feel that they have nothing to prove, thats just what I think.
> 
> The amazing experiences are kind of a long story... I became friends with this kid who claimed he was a Godly being of higher consciousness, so my reaction was "Yeah fuckn right". But after a few times talking about these types of things it ALMOST seemed like he knew what he was talking about, he would say things that Buddha would say and he was very insightful, he said a lot of things that I already believed in... So I started listening to this guy some more, listening to what ever craziness that comes out of his mouth and see if I can find a shred of truth to it... So one night a group of us were walking to get a bag of weed, enjoying the silence, and I got to thinking of his words. He said it was weird that I had a multi-colored Aura, and he said his Aura was white with golden hands and golden crown. Anyways, when we were walking I thought "He said I could have an Aura like his, wonder if thats true" and when I thought that, he looked at me and said "No you cant, shane" to which I said "WHAAAT??!!?!" my mind was fucking blown to say the least, because he just answered a question that I THOUGHT of... The rest of that silent walk was pretty interesting... I was freaking out that someone was in my head, I felt scared and violated, like I had no privacy what so ever... My mind was in a panic but I kept my composure. My mind started wondering to things that I was ashamed of and I couldnt think of anything else because I kept thinking "Does he know this about me now? shit! now he does because I thought of it!"... So after those thoughts of panic and anxiety he looked at me and said "Shane, your faults are what define you, they are the diamond of your being" ... And those words put me at ease.
> 
> ...


Wow. Just, wow. I'm not going to go on a spree of rationality here about how we tend to remember the hits and disregard the misses, or about the biases that you have toward certain ideas coloring your perception of this magical lad, or how you may be naturally thrilled about 'being special' because you can see how special he is, etc.. The one thing I'd ask you to do is one day while hanging with him, casually ask him what you're thinking two or three times. My guess is he won't play, or if he does, he'll miss at least two out of three. There is a reason why these folks will only show their abilities to the 'open-minded', as anyone applying any scrutiny would easily see through their methods. But just try out my experiment and let us know how it goes...


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## mindphuk (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> well you were just suggesting if you give meaning to something unexplainable then most likely your meaning is wrong because its only what you want it to be... Im saying its hard to mistake mind reading as anything else... Read my story I told to Tyler a few pages back... Its up to you to decide if Im a liar or not.


Did you see that quote from Heisenberg by a man named Ian Rowland? Did you happen google who he is and what he does?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Wow. Just, wow. I'm not going to go on a spree of rationality here about how we tend to remember the hits and disregard the misses, or about the biases that you have toward certain ideas coloring your perception of this magical lad, or how you may be naturally thrilled about 'being special' because you can see how special he is, etc.. The one thing I'd ask you to do is one day while hanging with him, casually ask him what you're thinking two or three times. My guess is he won't play, or if he does, he'll miss at least two out of three. There is a reason why these folks will only show their abilities to the 'open-minded', as anyone applying any scrutiny would easily see through their methods. But just try out my experiment and let us know how it goes...


I dont need to further prove to myself that he was reading my mind, I communicated with thoughts on multiple occasions with him (Wish I was able to hear his thoughts though)... One time when I was still very uncomfortable being around him, I stood behind him and thought "Whats up man, hows it hanging?... Dont answer that, Get the fuck outta my head asshole!" and he just turned around and laughed and so did I... And other times when we are having talks about spirituality and reality, I would have trouble wording some questions so I would just look at him and think then he would give an answer. One of my friends witnessed me looking at my magical buddy silently then getting an answer from him, he didnt know what to think of it... And I dont totally believe that I am all that special, he said I was special because I was able to feel him in my head and strongly in my heart (this is when he was in a meditative state) and I wasnt expecting him to do anything with me, I told him to go into my passed out friends mind, but instead he went into mine... The feeling I had in my head and in my heart (especially my heart) was a warm fuzzy vibration, it was indescribable, amazing none the less. And when I closed my eyes I would see a shape-shifting psychedelic orb hovering over me, he said that was him. 

But I was convinced before any of those things happend to me... Because when I was having all those panic'd thoughts about what I was ashamed of and afraid of him finding out, he turned towards me and said "Shane, your faults are what define you, they are the diamond of your being" <--- that is just some crazy profound Godly shit right there.


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## KronDonSmoker (Apr 24, 2012)

I like Turtles


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## tyler.durden (Apr 24, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I dont need to further prove to myself that he was reading my mind, I communicated with thoughts on multiple occasions with him (Wish I was able to hear his thoughts though)... One time when I was still very uncomfortable being around him, I stood behind him and thought "Whats up man, hows it hanging?... Dont answer that, Get the fuck outta my head asshole!" and he just turned around and laughed and so did I... And other times when we are having talks about spirituality and reality, I would have trouble wording some questions so I would just look at him and think then he would give an answer. One of my friends witnessed me looking at my magical buddy silently then getting an answer from him, he didnt know what to think of it... And I dont totally believe that I am all that special, he said I was special because I was able to feel him in my head and strongly in my heart (this is when he was in a meditative state) and I wasnt expecting him to do anything with me, I told him to go into my passed out friends mind, but instead he went into mine... The feeling I had in my head and in my heart (especially my heart) was a warm fuzzy vibration, it was indescribable, amazing none the less. And when I closed my eyes I would see a shape-shifting psychedelic orb hovering over me, he said that was him.
> 
> But I was convinced before any of those things happend to me... Because when I was having all those panic'd thoughts about what I was ashamed of and afraid of him finding out, he turned towards me and said "Shane, your faults are what define you, they are the diamond of your being" <--- that is just some crazy profound Godly shit right there.


Well, I can't comment on what you experienced because I wasn't there. I would have to go through something similar in order to give your story any weight. All I can say is I don't believe you, and I'm not sure if you're intentionally lying to give yourself and your ideas credibility, or if you're really delusional enough to believe what your writing. But, who gives a fuck what I believe. I still think that you guys should go get the million from the Amazing Randi for the mind reading, perhaps the fame you two would receive would convert more people to spirituality. If there's truth to what you write, it'd be a worth while pursuit...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Well, I can't comment on what you experienced because I wasn't there. I would have to go through something similar in order to give your story any weight. All I can say is I don't believe you, and I'm not sure if you're intentionally lying to give yourself and your ideas credibility, or if you're really delusional enough to believe what your writing. But, who gives a fuck what I believe. I still think that you guys should go get the million from the Amazing Randi for the mind reading, perhaps the fame you two would receive would convert more people to spirituality. If there's truth to what you write, it'd be a worth while pursuit...


I'll bring that idea up with my spiritual buddy.


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## flowamasta (Apr 24, 2012)

i thought this was an alien thread........boring. sorry but seriosly


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 24, 2012)

flowamasta said:


> i thought this was an alien thread........boring. sorry but seriosly


OH YEAH! My friend is also from Uranus


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## DoctorSmoke (Apr 25, 2012)

you can see UFOs any night flying up in the sky, just gotta look up for 20 mins watching the stars. i seen many and i can tell u this, half the stars in the sky are UFOs. they just sit there looking like a star then bam it moves or disappears or moves sightly to the side and back, they do this to avoid other moving UFOs (those white stars moving in a straight line). if u see a white star moving watch it and the other stars around it. 

types of UFOs i seen are: moving stars, big slow moving orange-red balls that fade out, orange light with black structure surrounding it with 8 red and blue lights attached 2x4 and it was moving slowly, and stars in the sky slying around eachother for 10 mins. from what i seen our atmosphere is guarded my aliens or theres a huge war up there. they are either fighting or chasing and avoiding each other. 
ur prob not gonna catch a star thats still moving, but if u see one moving already then u can catch some movement from the still stars as it passes by them.


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## Heisenberg (Apr 25, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Lol their you go again Heisenberg, taking what I say, processing it through your computer-like brain then present it to me like an automated android waiting for another subject to pass by that you can dissect and prove false. I believe our point of view of each other is well established, no need to keep repeating yourself with the definition of science and science and what not, its really getting old. And sorry if my name calling and stuff offends you, guess showing a little personality is also frowned upon...
> And my claims cant live up to the standards? what standards? Are you talking about SCIENCE again Heisenberg? my my, theres really no hope in explaining these kinds of things to you people.


So your position is, organized knowledge is stupid and sloppy ignorance is the way to go. I suppose laughter and belittlement are the only options for you when you subscribe to this approach. Your attitude makes more sense to me now, it is the labored struggle of a slow thinking dullard as his brain tries to digest things that are beyond him, like math and science. I see now that you would benefit more from a straight jacket and Thorazine shot, education is lost on the defective.


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## tyler.durden (Apr 25, 2012)

DoctorSmoke said:


> you can see UFOs any night flying up in the sky, just gotta look up for 20 mins watching the stars. i seen many and i can tell u this, half the stars in the sky are UFOs. they just sit there looking like a star then bam it moves or disappears or moves sightly to the side and back, they do this to avoid other moving UFOs (those white stars moving in a straight line). if u see a white star moving watch it and the other stars around it.
> 
> types of UFOs i seen are: moving stars, big slow moving orange-red balls that fade out, orange light with black structure surrounding it with 8 red and blue lights attached 2x4 and it was moving slowly, and stars in the sky slying around eachother for 10 mins. from what i seen our atmosphere is guarded my aliens or theres a huge war up there. they are either fighting or chasing and avoiding each other.
> ur prob not gonna catch a star thats still moving, but if u see one moving already then u can catch some movement from the still stars as it passes by them.


..........


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## jessy koons (Apr 25, 2012)

I sometimes feel like a UFO. I don't have any blinking lights yet but I'm hoping to get some for Christmas and maybe a tunic with really, really wide shoulders and space boots like Napoleon Dynamite has.


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## *BUDS (Apr 25, 2012)

DoctorSmoke said:


> you can see UFOs any night flying up in the sky, just gotta look up for 20 mins watching the stars. i seen many and i can tell u this, half the stars in the sky are UFOs. they just sit there looking like a star then bam it moves or disappears or moves sightly to the side and back, they do this to avoid other moving UFOs (those white stars moving in a straight line). if u see a white star moving watch it and the other stars around it.
> 
> types of UFOs i seen are: moving stars, big slow moving orange-red balls that fade out, orange light with black structure surrounding it with 8 red and blue lights attached 2x4 and it was moving slowly, and stars in the sky slying around eachother for 10 mins. from what i seen our atmosphere is guarded my aliens or theres a huge war up there. they are either fighting or chasing and avoiding each other.
> ur prob not gonna catch a star thats still moving, but if u see one moving already then u can catch some movement from the still stars as it passes by them.


Bullshit. And the same goes for anyone else who believes in UFO's ,big foot, loch ness monster, ghosts and WWF.


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## DoctorSmoke (Apr 25, 2012)

*BUDS said:


> Bullshit. And the same goes for anyone else who believes in UFO's ,big foot, loch ness monster, ghosts and WWF.


 well what ppl are seeing in the sky could be anything. if they were aliens and wanted to remain hidden then they are fucking stupid aliens for flying stuff in our atmosphere that looks like stars and big red holograms that dont do shit but move n disappear. should save urself for the day that UFOs are announced and open ur mind. well basically governments are turning over their ufo case reports, all i seen was eyewitnesses accounts and no camera footage, but theres plenty of videos of UFOs lol. do we need some kind of official announcement that theres shit in the sky that we dont know about?

btw UFO is a misinformation tool, its a broadterm word that covers everything we dont know that flies/hovers around.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 25, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> So your position is, organized knowledge is stupid and sloppy ignorance is the way to go. I suppose laughter and belittlement are the only options for you when you subscribe to this approach. Your attitude makes more sense to me now, it is the labored struggle of a slow thinking dullard as his brain tries to digest things that are beyond him, like math and science. I see now that you would benefit more from a straight jacket and Thorazine shot, education is lost on the defective.


*sigh* sure Heisenberg, 100% correct, if that makes you happy, note that I only read your first sentance.


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## Heisenberg (Apr 25, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> *sigh* sure Heisenberg, 100% correct, if that makes you happy, note that I only read your first sentance.


No need to stress your derelict faculties trying to read, I recognize the tune your singing now. At first I thought it might be an original, but now I see you're just sampling the classics. It's good to hear the ole hits once in a while like 'delusion' and 'bat-shit boogie', but they get old quick.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 25, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> No need to stress your derelict faculties trying to read, I recognize the tune your singing now. At first I thought it might be an original, but now I see you're just sampling the classics. It's good to hear the ole hits once in a while like 'delusion' and 'bat-shit boogie', but they get old quick.


Yes yes yes, you mentioned this many times but with different words, we know Heisenberg... We know... Can the butt-hurt scientist be put at ease now? lol


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## Heisenberg (Apr 25, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Yes yes yes, you mentioned this many times but with different words, we know Heisenberg... We know... Can the butt-hurt scientist be put at ease now? lol



"butt-hurt scientist" has a decent beat but it's a poor remake of "infidel sodomy", which I think was by Jimmy and the Popes. There was a punk version in the 90's by Sneaky Priest.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 25, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> "butt-hurt scientist" has a decent beat but it's a poor remake of "infidel sodomy", which I think was by Jimmy and the Popes. There was a punk version in the 90's by Sneaky Priest.


And your talking about religion because...? lol 

A tad bit scatterbrained, are we?


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## Heisenberg (Apr 25, 2012)

Customer:
Morning,


Waitress:
Morning.


Customer:
What have you got?


Waitress:
Well, there's egg and science,
egg atheism and science
Egg and evidence
Egg, science and evidence
Egg, science, atheism and evidence
evidence, science, atheism and evidence
evidence, egg, evidence, evidence, science and evidence
evidence, atheism, evidence, evidence, evidence, science, evidence tomato and evidence
evidence, evidence, evidence, egg and evidence
evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, baked beans, evidence, evidence, evidence and evidence. 


(Choir: evidence! evidence! evidence! evidence! Lovely evidence! Lovely evidence!)


Or Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a mornay sauce 
served in a provencale manner with shallots and aubergines
garnished with truffle pate, brandy and a fried egg on top and evidence.


Wife:
Have you got anything without evidence?


Waitress:
Well, the evidence, eggs, atheism and evidence
That's not got much evidence in it


Wife:
I don't want any evidence!


Customer:
Why can't she have eggs, science, evidence and atheism?


Wife:
That's got evidence in it!


Customer:
Hasn't got much evidence in it as evidence, eggs, atheism and evidence has it?


(Choir: evidence! evidence! evidence!...)


Wife:
Could you do me eggs, science, evidence and atheism without the evidence, then?


Waitress:
Iiiiiiiiiiiich!!


Wife:
What do you mean 'Iiiiiiiiiich'? I don't like evidence!


(Choir: Lovely evidence! Wonderful evidence!)


Waitress (to choir):
Shut up!


(Choir: Lovely evidence! Wonderful evidence!)


Waitress:
You can't have egg, science, evidence and atheism without the evidence.


Wife:
I don't like evidence!


Customer:
Shush dear, don't have a fuss. I'll have your evidence. I love it,
I'm having evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, baked beans,
evidence, evidence, evidence, and evidence!


(Choir: evidence! evidence! evidence! evidence! Lovely evidence! Wonderful evidence!)


Waitress:
Baked beans are off.


Customer:
Well, could I have her evidence instead of the baked beans then?


Waitress:
You mean evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence,
evidence and evidence?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 25, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Customer:
> Morning,
> 
> 
> ...


xD wow, it looks like you get your sense of humour from British TV shows in the 90's... I like your effort though, I love it when people spend their time thinking about me <3


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## jessy koons (Apr 25, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> xD wow, it looks like you get your sense of humour from British TV shows in the 90's... I like your effort though, I love it when people spend their time thinking about me <3


Hey chef, I'm thinking about you too and what I'm thinking is that British TV show was from the 1970's. It's a small consideration but I think quite important and not just some kind of Spam. spam, spam, spam, spam..........


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 25, 2012)

jessy koons said:


> Hey chef, I'm thinking about you too and what I'm thinking is that British TV show was from the 1970's. It's a small consideration but I think quite important and not just some kind of Spam. spam, spam, spam, spam..........


...Right-o


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 26, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> You haven't been able to demonstrate I misunderstood anything you said. Part of conversation and rational argumentation is being clear and doing what you can to make sure you are understood. Instead, all you have done is whine and complain and threaten to stop responding to me, like I fucking care. Run away, don't answer post #1042 because we all know you can't or it will just be more bullshit and you will never respond to the actual substance of my post. People that have confidence in their claims don't avoid answering tough questions and can respond to criticism of their ideas without stomping their feet and claiming the opposition is not understanding them and then shut the door to further elaboration.
> 
> Stop pretending the claims you are making are backed by anything empirical. All of your 'evidence' is reinterpretation of facts to support your wild speculations and ignoring facts that don't fit. Status quo for conspiracy nuts, religious types and woo woos. You really need to learn what evidence actuall is and is not.



what you're ignorin is post #1027 an post #1031. read that last line now if i thought for sure it was aliens would i have said that? no so once again once you learn to read everythin an not pickin shit out just to start a redundant debate because neither one of us really have the answer. when i look at monuments that have blocks placed an cut perfectly weighin around 800-1200 tons an know how we'd have to use cranes and heavy machinery to do those types of things. in my head its a little iffy that they somehow found a way to do that without those things. and how you brought up it took them a long time to build the shit didnt they say the pyramids were built in 20 years? that dont sound like that long givin what was build and what it was built out of. to me that can be a form of evidence that they didnt do it alone. i dont avoid jack shit i just avoid people that are too busy thinkin about what they have to say and not really readin what has been said. i would be confident in somethin im claimin as true if i thought it was true. once again read post 1027 an 1031, but you didnt do that mr. stop pretendin like you got the answers to everything esp this when we both know you dont. status qou for scientific nuts, close minded lets try to be super smart types. you really need to learn how to get off my nuts an see if a person is makin an actual claim or not.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 26, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> what you're ignorin is post #1027. read that last line now if i thought for sure it was aliens would i have said that? no so once again once you learn to read everythin an not pickin shit out just to start a redundant debate because neither one of us really have the answer. when i look at monuments that have blocks placed an cut perfectly weighin around 800-1200 tons an know how we'd have to use cranes and heavy machinery to do those types of things. in my head its a little iffy that they somehow found a way to do that without those things. and how you brought up it took them a long time to build the shit didnt they say the pyramids were built in 20 years? that dont sound like that long givin what was build and what it was built out of. to me that can be a form of evidence that they didnt do it alone. i dont avoid jack shit i just avoid people that are too busy thinkin about what they have to say and not really readin what has been said. i would be confident in somethin im claimin as true if i thought it was true. once again read post 1027, but you didnt do that mr. stop pretendin like you got the answers to everything esp this when we both know you dont. status qou for scientific nuts, close minded lets try to be super smart types. you really need to learn how to get off my nuts an see if a person is makin an actual claim or not.


Man, I feel ya, clashing heads with these guys is tough because they got big heads! lol all high and mighty on there pedestal of science like its the ultimate decider of truth, just because something hasnt been witnessed by a scientist or put in a lab must mean that it simply does not exist. They do really get on my nerves sometimes but then I think "oh yeah, I have a friend that can read minds, I seen stars moving around and seen major stars out of place, and I seen alien space crafts, fuck these LOST SHEEP!" <-- that thought is very reassuring... Anyways... I can give you a lot more information on the pyramids and ancient structures if you want, theres very deep meaning to them all, its really amazing. Having some knowledge of spirituality does help in understanding it all but its not necessary.


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 26, 2012)

oh yea man send it my way and im open to any kinda info anyone wants to bring to the table cause as ive said many times despite mindphuk's inability to understand that is if it wasnt aliens im still interested in how they did what they did. ive looked at every link that was posted in another thread about this or it mighta been this one i dunno about how humans coulda did it and it just wasnt convincin enough to me that if humans did it alone they wouldnt have done it in that way givin the weight of some of those granite and stone blocks.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 26, 2012)

blazinkill504 said:


> oh yea man send it my way and im open to any kinda info anyone wants to bring to the table cause as ive said many times despite mindphuk's inability to understand that is if it wasnt aliens im still interested in how they did what they did. ive looked at every link that was posted in another thread about this or it mighta been this one i dunno about how humans coulda did it and it just wasnt convincin enough to me that if humans did it alone they wouldnt have done it in that way givin the weight of some of those granite and stone blocks.


In this documentary it talks about how they probably moved the giant blocks (thats only a small part of the documentary) and the only guy that knew how they moved the blocks is dead now, but not before he built a coral garden, with coral blocks weighing 5 tons or something, he was a 100 pound man who only worked alone and at night and did it with no machinery. He never told anyone his secret, but he knew that an advanced civilization built the pyramids... The video is long but trust me its worth it! This video pretty much cracks the mystery of the pyramids and what they were used for... If only these super-skeptics would have the time to sit through it, it might change their point of view on things... anyways, heres the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yUqb0wrxRw


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## blazinkill504 (Apr 26, 2012)

ima watch it later or tomorrow i started a game on age of empires 2 and im shittin on the comp! haha


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## skudz47 (May 4, 2012)

I live in WA and I can tell you we have a lot of weird shit flying around up here.. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcuRxK30Xiw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4pCuLFDs8I&feature=related


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 5, 2012)

Shit is flying everywhere man, right over everyones heads, I witnessed some crazy shit, light speed is fucking INTENSE lol they could of even been going faster, a star shot beyond two other stars, shouldnt light atleast take a while before it reaches distances like that? I dont fuckin know, it shot past two other stars though. I got a crazy theory for whats going on but people already think Im crazy so I wont share lol


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## DoctorSmoke (May 5, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Shit is flying everywhere man, right over everyones heads, I witnessed some crazy shit, light speed is fucking INTENSE lol they could of even been going faster, a star shot beyond two other stars, shouldnt light atleast take a while before it reaches distances like that? I dont fuckin know, it shot past two other stars though. I got a crazy theory for whats going on but people already think Im crazy so I wont share lol


 thats what ive been telling everybody, look up and u will see stuff moving. those "stars" are in the upper atmosphere. u could use a math formula to see which are stars lightyears away and which ones are around our planet. 2 ppl living a thousand miles apart looking at the same time, anything far away would look the same to both ppl, anything close would appear in different spots in the sky. they use this method in a bigger scale to determine the distance of stars.


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## progenitor04 (May 7, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Shit is flying everywhere man, right over everyones heads, I witnessed some crazy shit, light speed is fucking INTENSE lol they could of even been going faster, a star shot beyond two other stars, shouldnt light atleast take a while before it reaches distances like that? I dont fuckin know, it shot past two other stars though. I got a crazy theory for whats going on but people already think Im crazy so I wont share lol


please share wtf


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## RawBudzski (May 7, 2012)

Someone has been up too late listening to CoasttoCoast Am.

*<3*


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## progenitor04 (May 7, 2012)

medicinaluseonly said:


> Anyone that doesn't believe in life on other planets, is missing quite a few brain cells. Even if you believe that life started in tidepools and we crawled out of the swamps and eventually walked on two legs (why are there still apes on this planet if we descended from them), you would almost have to agree that with billions of planets out there, there could be life on them. Now take the fact that the universe is billions of years old, is it not possible that on another planet somewhere in the universe, an intelligent species evolved, or was created some time before our world was habitable, and these beings having millions-billions of years head start on us, could have the capacity to visit our world. I'm sure they're curious about us like we're curious about the dinosaurs, plus we're much more interesting because we have shit to blow things up and maybe cause a catastrophe in the universe. If you don't believe in extra-terrestials, you must be brain dead. Of course the powers that be, don't want you believing in such things, how dare we think there might be some being more intelligent than our leaders. Nope I've never seen one, although to be honest, on a two year sabbatical in the wilderness of Arizona, I saw quite a few U.F.O.s, remember what a UFO is: an unidentified flying object, I saw a few that did things that no known terrestial object could achieve.


we were the planet of the apes aka black ppl, which was prob due to evolution, then they came and genetically advanced them and brought there own cultures here aswell


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## progenitor04 (May 7, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxB1hHjHj84


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 7, 2012)

progenitor04 said:


> please share wtf


The theory is a bit crazy but then again the stuff thats happening in the sky is a bit crazy lol Me and my friend seen more than a few moving stars and we know they arent satellites because satellites dont change direction, arent nearly as bright, and they dont shoot off and what looks to be light speed lol. My friend and the people that I talked to that witnessed these kinda things think that its alien space crafts disguised as stars, but I dont think thats true. Me and my friend looked up one night a while back and I noticed that the star Sirius was not there (one of the brighter stars in the sky, the three main stars in Orions Belt point down at it). If it were alien space crafts disguised as stars than shouldnt there still be a star there? Thats why I think moving stars is a GODLY matter, actually, I think the spiritually in touch aliens are teaming up with the Gods and they are preparing for something BIG. Not the end of the world but something huge that will change the course of humanity. I think there will be more and more activity up there as time passes, and that the stars will take a certain formation when that time comes. Me and my friend noticed one night that theres a lot of straight lines (and some curved) if you connected the dots to closer stars, too straight and too many for it to be natural, I think the stars are starting to get in position in order to prepare for something epic.


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## progenitor04 (May 8, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> The theory is a bit crazy but then again the stuff thats happening in the sky is a bit crazy lol Me and my friend seen more than a few moving stars and we know they arent satellites because satellites dont change direction, arent nearly as bright, and they dont shoot off and what looks to be light speed lol. My friend and the people that I talked to that witnessed these kinda things think that its alien space crafts disguised as stars, but I dont think thats true. Me and my friend looked up one night a while back and I noticed that the star Sirius was not there (one of the brighter stars in the sky, the three main stars in Orions Belt point down at it). If it were alien space crafts disguised as stars than shouldnt there still be a star there? Thats why I think moving stars is a GODLY matter, actually, I think the spiritually in touch aliens are teaming up with the Gods and they are preparing for something BIG. Not the end of the world but something huge that will change the course of humanity. I think there will be more and more activity up there as time passes, and that the stars will take a certain formation when that time comes. Me and my friend noticed one night that theres a lot of straight lines (and some curved) if you connected the dots to closer stars, too straight and too many for it to be natural, I think the stars are starting to get in position in order to prepare for something epic.


 ooh thats not so crazy i kinda have to agree, i seen alot of things in the sky cuase i stare at the stars almost everyday and have noticed a few abnormalities myself... the et's teaming up wit the gods arent they the same thing.. wats crazy is the otha day i was lookin at my arms and was thinkin if the blacks heads all over my body simulate a star pattern, it looks like it wud lol..maybe there not even blackheads wat if they were put there as some kinda code wen/if i was abducted and cant remeber


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 8, 2012)

progenitor04 said:


> ooh thats not so crazy i kinda have to agree, i seen alot of things in the sky cuase i stare at the stars almost everyday and have noticed a few abnormalities myself... the et's teaming up wit the gods arent they the same thing.. wats crazy is the otha day i was lookin at my arms and was thinkin if the blacks heads all over my body simulate a star pattern, it looks like it wud lol..maybe there not even blackheads wat if they were put there as some kinda code wen/if i was abducted and cant remeber


I guess aliens and Gods are kinda the same, Im convinced theres a spiritual world with non physical Gods, ET's are physical... I think ET's are in a God-like physical state of being and are capable of doing amazing things with spirit infused technology (like light speed). Im sure theres some sinister aliens out there but I think most of them are like our big brother guarding us and making sure we dont blow ourselves up lol.


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## progenitor04 (May 8, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I guess aliens and Gods are kinda the same, Im convinced theres a spiritual world with non physical Gods, ET's are physical... I think ET's are in a God-like physical state of being and are capable of doing amazing things with spirit infused technology (like light speed). Im sure theres some sinister aliens out there but I think most of them are like our big brother guarding us and making sure we dont blow ourselves up lol.


u ever heard of the reptilian agenda?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 8, 2012)

progenitor04 said:


> u ever heard of the reptilian agenda?


My spiritually gifted friend told me about reptiles but only very briefly, I cant remember what he said. Im aware of them but dont know their agenda.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 8, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I guess aliens and Gods are kinda the same, Im convinced theres a spiritual world with non physical Gods, ET's are physical... I think ET's are in a God-like physical state of being and are capable of doing amazing things with spirit infused technology (like light speed). Im sure theres some sinister aliens out there but I think most of them are like our big brother guarding us and making sure we dont blow ourselves up lol.



They've been doing a terrible job if that's the case.


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## tyler.durden (May 9, 2012)

progenitor04 said:


> ooh thats not so crazy i kinda have to agree, i seen alot of things in the sky cuase i stare at the stars almost everyday and have noticed a few abnormalities myself... the et's teaming up wit the gods arent they the same thing.. wats crazy is the otha day i was lookin at my arms and was thinkin if the blacks heads all over my body simulate a star pattern, it looks like it wud lol..maybe there not even blackheads wat if they were put there as some kinda code wen/if i was abducted and cant remeber





Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> The theory is a bit crazy but then again the stuff thats happening in the sky is a bit crazy lol Me and my friend seen more than a few moving stars and we know they arent satellites because satellites dont change direction, arent nearly as bright, and they dont shoot off and what looks to be light speed lol. My friend and the people that I talked to that witnessed these kinda things think that its alien space crafts disguised as stars, but I dont think thats true. Me and my friend looked up one night a while back and I noticed that the star Sirius was not there (one of the brighter stars in the sky, the three main stars in Orions Belt point down at it). If it were alien space crafts disguised as stars than shouldnt there still be a star there? Thats why I think moving stars is a GODLY matter, actually, I think the spiritually in touch aliens are teaming up with the Gods and they are preparing for something BIG. Not the end of the world but something huge that will change the course of humanity. I think there will be more and more activity up there as time passes, and that the stars will take a certain formation when that time comes. Me and my friend noticed one night that theres a lot of straight lines (and some curved) if you connected the dots to closer stars, too straight and too many for it to be natural, I think the stars are starting to get in position in order to prepare for something epic.


Are you guys serious? How do you manage to dress yourselves?


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## Padawanbater2 (May 9, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Are you guys serious? How do you manage to dress yourselves?


They can vote.

I hope you can sleep tonight...


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## tyler.durden (May 9, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> They can vote.
> 
> I hope you can sleep tonight...


LOL! That fact doesn't help, Pad, but it sure explains a lot...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 9, 2012)

hahaha...haha...HAH!! *Puffs on his jeffrey and starts a fight with his dresser*... thats how.


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## progenitor04 (May 9, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Are you guys serious? How do you manage to dress yourselves?


trust me if i had it my way i wudnt dress my self at all

jus browsin the internet wat u think? http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/stories/man-looks-for-missing-cat-finds-ufo-instead



Padawanbater2 said:


> They can vote.
> 
> I hope you can sleep tonight...


who u voting for


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## doowmd (May 12, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Are you guys serious? How do you manage to dress yourselves?



Isn't that an exact quote from Fight Club? ^^^
Taking the whole "fight club is my favorite movie" thing alllll the way huh?...........


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## progenitor04 (May 16, 2012)

progenitor04 said:


> we were the planet of the apes aka black ppl, which was prob due to evolution, then they came and genetically advanced them and brought there own cultures here aswell


also like to add there were white ppl apes too, like there are albino animals


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## progenitor04 (May 18, 2012)

once we start getting along with each other, we will reach ultimate enlightment


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 18, 2012)

progenitor04 said:


> once we start getting along with each other, we will reach ultimate enlightment


Thats never going to happen, many feel that true enlightenment has nothing to do with spirituality so they try to convince us that our version of enlightenment is just huge lie to ourselves that we are oblivious of. Thats just one example of separation, theres many walls dividing the people of the world and if things keep going the way they are going then we are just gunna get swallowed up and destroyed by our own separation that we created. Everyone would have to know the ultimate truth in order to co-operate but even then that probably wont work, there would be many who would get angered by the truth, they cant handle the truth! (lol) Im convinced that before enlightenment of the planet, chaos has to happen, theres no avoiding it... But your still right, if we all get along than ultimate enlightenment will be achieved.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 19, 2012)

They really can't handle the truth. As contradictory as this may sound, i stand by it.

The truth is... there is no truth. (Merely the closest approximation to truth-Science) 

You guys do know, that the smallest piece of matter the human eye can see is the quantum foam, and these little strings... some are closed to make circles, and some are just strings... they vibrate. 

It's really entertaining to me to think about a group of scientists in a lab, one dude looking through a microscope with the other dudes doing there own thing, and all of the sudden dude sees something that has NEVER been seen by the human eye before (The strings for example). I can see him frantically waving his friend over saying: 

Dude1- "DUDE DUDE! Come here you gotta fuckin check this shit out! You're not gonna believe what i just saw!" 

Dude2- "What the fuck is THAT?!"

Dude1- "Dude... i got no fucking clue, pretty sweet huh?"

Dude2- "Yeeeeaaaaaaaaa - in awe"


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Oh there is indeed truth, "the closest approximation to truth-science" just happens to be your truth.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 20, 2012)

.....Science isn't truth, it is merely the closest approximation to truth. I have no truth, just ideas about it. Those who feel the psychological need to give themselves truth are the only ones who "think" they have it.

It doesn't make them bad people, just dishonest or delusional.

Those who cannot handle the truth... make it up.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Experience says otherwise, but even then you can label us as delusional because you assume what we experience is a trick of the mind, jumping to conclusions, or desperately trying to give meaning to something that we want to be true. But this is one of those classic arguments between atheists and theists that will never end because our experiences mean nothing to you, doesnt prove anything. Its pointless to continue discussing because we both are convinced that our point of view is the more accurate one.


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## Corso312 (May 20, 2012)

i don't believe anyone has seen aliens or spaceships....maybe some new government drone that is top secret bullshit that cost 4 billion to build but not an alien in an aircraft....i assume there is life of some kind on other planets but i laugh at all these people who say they have seen...

lockness monster
bigfoot
aliens


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Corso312 said:


> i don't believe anyone has seen aliens or spaceships....maybe some new government drone that is top secret bullshit that cost 4 billion to build but not an alien in an aircraft....i assume there is life of some kind on other planets but i laugh at all these people who say they have seen...
> 
> lockness monster
> bigfoot
> aliens


Me and my buddy looked up one night and seen that the star Sirius was not there, like what the fucking fuck? I almost shit my pants when I seen that. Sure enough the next clear night it was there... I seen a lot more shit but thats the only one you'd have a chance at believing lol.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 20, 2012)

Corso312 said:


> i don't believe anyone has seen aliens or spaceships....maybe some new government drone that is top secret bullshit that cost 4 billion to build but not an alien in an aircraft....i assume there is life of some kind on other planets but i laugh at all these people who say they have seen...
> 
> lockness monster
> bigfoot
> aliens


You forgot god.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Experience says otherwise, but even then you can label us as delusional because you assume what we experience is a trick of the mind, jumping to conclusions, or desperately trying to give meaning to something that we want to be true. But this is one of those classic arguments between atheists and theists that will never end because our experiences mean nothing to you, doesnt prove anything. Its pointless to continue discussing because we both are convinced that our point of view is the more accurate one.


You must acknowledge that anecdotal evidence isn't applicable to modern science. It isn't us assuming anything, there are very good reasons why we simply can't take someones word for something, and if we did, the science that followed would be inherently flawed. It has nothing to do with anything else, we wouldn't end up with accurate science if that's how it was done. 

Experiences are 100% subjective to the person experiencing them. You walk into a room and you're cold, I could walk into the same exact room and feel hot, depending on many different variables. What you are proposing atheists and critical thinkers do is dismiss objective observation in favor of subjective interpretation. You would end up with thousands of different viewpoints (consider how many people have how many differing opinions about something like politics or economics) that wouldn't lead to anything useful.

Do you understand that explanation?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You must acknowledge that anecdotal evidence isn't applicable to modern science. It isn't us assuming anything, there are very good reasons why we simply can't take someones word for something, and if we did, the science that followed would be inherently flawed. It has nothing to do with anything else, we wouldn't end up with accurate science if that's how it was done.
> 
> Experiences are 100% subjective to the person experiencing them. You walk into a room and you're cold, I could walk into the same exact room and feel hot, depending on many different variables. What you are proposing atheists and critical thinkers do is dismiss objective observation in favor of subjective interpretation. You would end up with thousands of different viewpoints (consider how many people have how many differing opinions about something like politics or economics) that wouldn't lead to anything useful.
> 
> Do you understand that explanation?


I said that our experiences prove nothing, because thats what they are, OUR experiences, not yours.


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## Corso312 (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Me and my buddy looked up one night and seen that the star Sirius was not there, like what the fucking fuck? I almost shit my pants when I seen that. Sure enough the next clear night it was there... I seen a lot more shit but thats the only one you'd have a chance at believing lol.




i am no scientist...i assume there could be an explanation from a scientist ?....i know nothing about the stars..perhaps you were looking in a different direction?


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## Zaehet Strife (May 20, 2012)

Corso312 said:


> i am no scientist...i assume there could be an explanation from a scientist ?....i know nothing about the stars..perhaps you were looking in a different direction?


Clouds? lol


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## Zaehet Strife (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I said that our experiences prove nothing, because thats what they are, OUR experiences, not yours.


If they prove nothing, how can you be so certain of them being true? The truth is, you can't... can't handle the truth.


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## Corso312 (May 20, 2012)

clouds sounds plausible ....if you watch some of these people tell their bigfoot stories/photos...they actually believe it, most are not crazy people...they are just mistaken


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Corso312 said:


> i am no scientist...i assume there could be an explanation from a scientist ?....i know nothing about the stars..perhaps you were looking in a different direction?


Nah I know basic astronomy (very basic) I just know the position of most of the major stars so theres no way my eyes were mistaken. The three main stars in Orions Belt point down at Sirius and Sirius is always in that area. Sirius is one of the brightest stars in the sky so it should of been clearly visible when viewed from 20 minutes out of town on a clear night. If you have access to clear skys than I suggest you start star gazing more, crazy shit has been happening up there recently, talking about it proves nothing, people just need to look up.


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## Corso312 (May 20, 2012)

ok...im gonna go smoke and take a peek in the sky....just moved to michigan from chicago so i should see things i could not before...it is raining here though


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## Padawanbater2 (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I said that our experiences prove nothing, because thats what they are, OUR experiences, not yours.


It seems like you're implying that personal experiences are as valuable to the pursuit of truth as objective observation and experimentation. It's not an 'us v. them' kind of thing, it's a 'one has valid evidence v. one with no valid evidence'; evolution v. creation for example. 

Can something be true without any evidence that it is?


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## Padawanbater2 (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Nah I know basic astronomy (very basic) I just know the position of most of the major stars so theres no way my eyes were mistaken. The three main stars in Orions Belt point down at Sirius and Sirius is always in that area. Sirius is one of the brightest stars in the sky so it should of been clearly visible when viewed from 20 minutes out of town on a clear night. If you have access to clear skys than I suggest you start star gazing more, crazy shit has been happening up there recently, talking about it proves nothing, people just need to look up.


Why didn't you take a picture of this? If I noticed a star missing in the sky, first thing I would do is take a picture.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> If they prove nothing, how can you be so certain of them being true? The truth is, you can't... can't handle the truth.


It proves nothing to YOU, especially you lol the lucid dreamer. If something like lucid dreaming cant open your eyes to anything then Im guessing it would take something quite astonishing for you to consider the possibility of spirit... But like I said, this argument goes nowhere and it never does.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Why didn't you take a picture of this? If I noticed a star missing in the sky, first thing I would do is take a picture.


We drove twenty minutes back to town to get a camera and twenty minutes back to the field we were at but by then the sky was hazy.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> We drove twenty minutes back to town to get a camera and twenty minutes back to the field we were at but by then the sky was hazy.


So what do you believe is the most rational explanation for this experience?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Corso312 said:


> ok...im gonna go smoke and take a peek in the sky....just moved to michigan from chicago so i should see things i could not before...it is raining here though


Be patient and smoke a bowl and star gave at least once a week.

gaze*


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> So what do you believe is the most rational explanation for this experience?


I dont think a star thats missing one day and was there the next can be rationally explained.


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## mindphuk (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Me and my buddy looked up one night and seen that the star Sirius was not there, like what the fucking fuck? I almost shit my pants when I seen that. Sure enough the next clear night it was there... I seen a lot more shit but thats the only one you'd have a chance at believing lol.


much more likely it was cloud cover. Of course you would still believe it went missing in spite of no reports from any astronomers, amateur or professional because you know the spiritual realm and you are an unfallible observer. Do you honestly believe something like that would go unnoticed?


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## mindphuk (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I dont think a star thats missing one day and was there the next can be rationally explained.


Really? You can't think of ANY explanation why a star could be observed from view when only 40 minutes later everything was obscured from view so much you couldn't take a picture?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> much more likely it was cloud cover. Of course you would still believe it went missing in spite of no reports from any astronomers, amateur or professional. Do you honestly believe something like that would go unnoticed?


No clouds my friend, just clear skys. You'd think this tiny invisible cloud you speak of would move out of the way after a while. And I was shocked that this went un-noticed, it had to of been seen by at least one astronomer. My explanation for that is maybe they are told to keep their mouths shut so they dont want the population freaking out. I think people would start believing that dec 21st is really the end (which I dont believe) if they knew that stars were flying around.


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## mindphuk (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> No clouds my friend, just clear skys. You'd think this tiny invisible cloud you speak of would move out of the way after a while. And I was shocked that this went un-noticed, it had to of been seen by at least one astronomer. My explanation for that is maybe they are told to keep their mouths shut so they dont want the population freaking out. I think people would start believing that dec 21st is really the end (which I dont believe) if they knew that stars were flying around.


How can you be sure there wasn't a cloud? If you really watched the skies as often as you claim, you would know that most clouds are indeed invisible at night and yes, it might move out of the way after awhile but you said you left to go get a camera? Which is it? Did you stay and observe for an hour to see if the skies got progressively worse supporting the idea that clouds were moving in (or sirius made a sudden appearance when the cloud moved) or did you leave the viewing area and go get a camera?

So now the stars are flying around? It didn't just disappear?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> How can you be sure there wasn't a cloud? If you really watched the skies as often as you claim, you would know that most clouds are indeed invisible at night and yes, it might move out of the way after awhile but you said you left to go get a camera? Which is it? Did you stay and observe for an hour to see if the skies got progressively worse supporting the idea that clouds were moving in (or sirius made a sudden appearance when the cloud moved) or did you leave the viewing area and go get a camera?
> 
> So now the stars are flying around? It didn't just disappear?


lol calm down man, I got nothing to prove, Im just talking about what I seen. Me and others seen much more as well, this is one of the less astonishing things we witnessed, I just figured this would be easier to talk about.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I dont think a star thats missing one day and was there the next can be rationally explained.


It's more rational to you that a star vanished without a trace than your senses may have been momentarily fooled?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 20, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> It's more rational to you that a star vanished without a trace than your senses may have been momentarily fooled?


That compelled me and my friend to start looking up more, and the other things we witnessed after that tell us that we were seeing what we thought we were seeing. Like when a stationary bright star all of the sudden starts to move across the sky to meet up with a pair of stars to make a perfect pyramid like triangle with them then shoots off into space like loosing sight of a well struck golf ball... Three of us witnessed that lol But we must of been fooled though... I'll let you and your fellow champion of truth have the last words =)


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## mindphuk (May 20, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol calm down man, I got nothing to prove, Im just talking about what I seen. Me and others seen much more as well, this is one of the less astonishing things we witnessed, I just figured this would be easier to talk about.


Calm down? Are you implying that asking questions somehow make me excited? I am in fact quite calm. If I believed a single word you say, I might be excited to hear that a star, actually the brightest in the night sky, can just disappear and other people besides some stoned dude and his friend actually noticed it too. Sorry, but I don't have enough respect for your powers of observation to actually get excited over anything you tell me you say or experienced. Now you play games by saying, "calm down man..." to defect from the actual questions that I asked because you are unwilling to acknowledge them since they would destroy your idiotic belief that something actually happened to Sirius rather than the infinitely more reasonable conclusion that your viewing conditions were not as perfect as you think they were (or you completely fabricated the story).


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 21, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Calm down? Are you implying that asking questions somehow make me excited? I am in fact quite calm. If I believed a single word you say, I might be excited to hear that a star, actually the brightest in the night sky, can just disappear and other people besides some stoned dude and his friend actually noticed it too. Sorry, but I don't have enough respect for your powers of observation to actually get excited over anything you tell me you say or experienced. Now you play games by saying, "calm down man..." to defect from the actual questions that I asked because you are unwilling to acknowledge them since they would destroy your idiotic belief that something actually happened to Sirius rather than the infinitely more reasonable conclusion that your viewing conditions were not as perfect as you think they were (or you completely fabricated the story).


I got nothing to prove, yet your still typing like I do lol Im not surprised you were once an alcoholic, oh how miserable you must be... Lets see how many breaths you waste by responding to this.


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## Red1966 (May 21, 2012)

Life on other planets? Most likely. Intelligent life? Still probable. Spending 100's of years to get here. Not likely. Any race capable of breaking the speed of light would consider us mere animals and would have no hesitation to wipe us out if necessary to acquire our resources. Why do people, when observing something they don't understand, always choose the most unlikely explanation? "We've eliminated all the other possibilities, so it must be space aliens, ghosts, God, magic...." Just means they haven't actually eliminated all the other possibilities, just the ones they know about. Illogical: If "A" is true, then "B" is false. Therefore, if "B" is false, then "A" must be true. NOT!! Example: "A" It is raining right now(true). "B" The road is dry(false). Therefore, If the road is not dry, then it must be raining right now. No, I just pissed in the street. "A" is not true.


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## Padawanbater2 (May 21, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> That compelled me and my friend to start looking up more, and the other things we witnessed after that tell us that we were seeing what we thought we were seeing. Like when a stationary bright star all of the sudden starts to move across the sky to meet up with a pair of stars to make a perfect pyramid like triangle with them then shoots off into space like loosing sight of a well struck golf ball... Three of us witnessed that lol But we must of been fooled though... I'll let you and your fellow champion of truth have the last words =)


I'll reiterate from a previous post; If you can't prove it, what does it matter? What value does it hold? 

Why haven't you attempted to record any of it, or conduct any experiments to support your findings?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 21, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I'll reiterate from a previous post; If you can't prove it, what does it matter? What value does it hold?
> 
> Why haven't you attempted to record any of it, or conduct any experiments to support your findings?


What does taking pictures do? "hey guys, heres a picture of a missing star that you'll pass off as photoshop" "heres a video of a moving star just like the hundreds of recorded UFO accounts on youtube that no one takes seriously" ... Its really impossible to prove anything to skeptics, you guys gotta have your own experience but even then you will convince yourself that your senses are being fooled because what you witness will go against science. You people are impossible to reason with, just like you think spiritualists are impossible to reason with, these arguments go nowhere, but I know you're going to feel compelled to keep this argument going, even though it goes nowhere and it never will.


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## mindphuk (May 21, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I'll let you and your fellow champion of truth have the last words =)


So now we know you are a liar. You still need to be the one to get in the last word it appears. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I got nothing to prove, yet your still typing like I do lol Im not surprised you were once an alcoholic, oh how miserable you must be... Lets see how many breaths you waste by responding to this.


Now you are resorting to slander? I have never been an alcoholic although if I was it wouldn't change anything. Unlike you, I am not prejudiced against alcoholics as they have the same addiction problems that I had to deal with, just different substances. I see though that you are a judgmental prick and nothing I say will matter to you since you have already made up your mind -- the definition of close minded.


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## mindphuk (May 21, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You people are impossible to reason with,


Ironic considering you don't know how to reason.


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## mindphuk (May 21, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I'll let you and your fellow champion of truth have the last words =)





Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I know you're going to feel compelled to keep this argument going, even though it goes nowhere and it never will.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 21, 2012)

mindphuk said:


>


Someones confused lol I stated that this argument goes nowhere before you chimed in, Im assuming you read that comment, Padawan even replied to that comment with intentions to further continue this argument that goes nowhere... *facepalm* "smart" people these days...


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## Padawanbater2 (May 21, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> What does taking pictures do? "hey guys, heres a picture of a missing star that you'll pass off as photoshop" "heres a video of a moving star just like the hundreds of recorded UFO accounts on youtube that no one takes seriously" ... Its really impossible to prove anything to skeptics, you guys gotta have your own experience but even then you will convince yourself that your senses are being fooled because what you witness will go against science. You people are impossible to reason with, just like you think spiritualists are impossible to reason with, these arguments go nowhere, but I know you're going to feel compelled to keep this argument going, even though it goes nowhere and it never will.


Chief, you can see the implications if we were to take every single video or every single photo as direct evidence of "aliens" instead of "ufo's" as they are, right? Hopefully you can see the value of having a mechanism to determine using the best available estimates (via the scientific method) what's likely true and what's not. 

The one making the positive claim "I saw a ufo, therefore, aliens" has to prove that claim. You can't make the claim and expect it to be taken as fact until proven false. Do you see the problem with that rationale?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 21, 2012)

^^ See what I mean mindphuck? You guys LOVE arguments that go nowhere lol What is your guys mindset when approaching these arguments? "I know I wont convince this idiot of anything but Im gunna throw reason in his face anyways! so we can have a back and forth argument that accomplishes nothing!" ... once again... *facepalm*


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## mindphuk (May 21, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> ^^ See what I mean mindphuck? You guys LOVE arguments that go nowhere lol What is your guys mindset when approaching these arguments? "I know I wont convince this idiot of anything but Im gunna throw reason in his face anyways! so we can have a back and forth argument that accomplishes nothing!" ... once again... *facepalm*


That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact you don't understand the implication of offering the last word then actually, NOT. The reason the argument goes nowhere says more about the level of your credulity than it says about the argument. The fact that you cannot understand the idea of anectdotal when you offer a response to a post about not believing anyone has seen aliens. Unless it is clarified ahead of time, any reasonable person would take that as an implied answer to that post, i.e. offering your 'experience' as de facto evidence for seeing aliens. Trying to brush it off by trying to act all caviler, 'not trying to prove anything' only makes you look more like a douche. You're like the guy that interjects about a discussion concerning football, that he would have played pro if he didn't get injured, yada yada.... Even if we believed your sorry ass, it in no way proves you know anything about anything and you said it just to make noise. IOW, two stoners NOT seeing a star that's supposed to be there is no more evidence for aliens than it is that your mom dropped you on your head as a child...many times.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 21, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact you don't understand the implication of offering the last word then actually, NOT. The reason the argument goes nowhere says more about the level of your credulity than it says about the argument. The fact that you cannot understand the idea of anectdotal when you offer a response to a post about not believing anyone has seen aliens. Unless it is clarified ahead of time, any reasonable person would take that as an implied answer to that post, i.e. offering your 'experience' as de facto evidence for seeing aliens. Trying to brush it off by trying to act all caviler, 'not trying to prove anything' only makes you look more like a douche. You're like the guy that interjects about a discussion concerning football, that he would have played pro if he didn't get injured, yada yada.... Even if we believed your sorry ass, it in no way proves you know anything about anything and you said it just to make noise. IOW, two stoners NOT seeing a star that's supposed to be there is no more evidence for aliens than it is that your mom dropped you on your head as a child...many times.


Oh wow... yet you keep going... Poor oblivious robots of rationality feel they got something to prove all the time... What miserable people.


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## cannabineer (May 21, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> What does taking pictures do? "hey guys, heres a picture of a missing star that you'll pass off as photoshop" "heres a video of a moving star just like the hundreds of recorded UFO accounts on youtube that no one takes seriously" ... Its really impossible to prove anything to skeptics, you guys gotta have your own experience but even then you will convince yourself that your senses are being fooled because what you witness will go against science. You people are impossible to reason with, just like you think spiritualists are impossible to reason with, these arguments go nowhere, but I know you're going to feel compelled to keep this argument going, even though it goes nowhere and it never will.


What taking pictures and videos does is twofold:
1) It provides a physical record of an occurrence with claimed physical (in this case, optical) manifestations.
2) It provides a certification of intent by the claimant: "cool or weird or scary stuff is happening, and I'm not just spouting off here". 

Regarding point 1, it is true that digital images are highly manipulable, but it is very very difficult to make the manipulations invisible to professional photoanalysts. But being witness to multiple violations of consensus reality and NOT carrying detecting/recording equipment along ... not even a handycam or middling canon digicam, strikes me as either awfully slipshod ... or admission that the stories are not honest. If I were in those shoes, I'd always be carrying *film* cameras, both still and cine, bevcause negatives are very hard to hoax, and the people who have those skills are few, quite old and all know one another. They could instantly spot an image changer's "fist". 

regarding point 2: That is the key difference between natural philosophy (of which "science" is the most vigorous component today, but there is more to it) and the very human and equally useless desire to have a story believed as told. It is a basic moral/philosophical duty of EVERYBODY t6o not believe in random "reality busters" unless/until a body of plausibility has been assembled. This kills anecdotal evidence. My main beef with a certain sort of spiritualist is that sort's insistence that "I experienced it" is identical with "I experienced it correctly" is identical with "it is true what I saw and then deduced from the experience" and which usually gets distilled into that last refuge of fools, "the establishment is suppressing something big, and I know a dangerous truth". I was bemused by the claim that the world's astronomical community would SEE something like a missing star (indeed the brightest stellar object in the sky, not counting el Sol) and then unanimously agree to SHUSH about it! If you want to see a community of amateur astronomers whose diversity, passion and overall impossibility to be _told_ stuff meets or exceeds that of the RIU community, explore cloudynights.com. I would lick my chops to see what experienced, educated stargazers from all walks of life would do to a claim like "the star disappeared in a cloudless sky, and for minutes!" 
cn


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## tyler.durden (May 21, 2012)

^^ Cannabineer is back! Where have you been? We missed you around here


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## bud nugbong (May 21, 2012)

i really belive there are aliens on other planets out there but they are so far away getting to or from is damn near impossible. I just looked up info about the voyager ( the furthest manmade object in space)

"At this velocity, 73,600 years would pass before reaching the nearest star, Proxima Centauri, were the spacecraft traveling in the direction of that star. _Voyager 1_ will need about 14,000 years at its current velocity to travel one light year, therefore 40,000 years will pass before coming anywhere near other stars or planets."

so pretty much in a really really long time after we have evolved into a new subspecies we might get some communication from another solar system. I mean 14,000 years to travel one lightyear, its just a long time off is all im sayin.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 21, 2012)

Dudes! This one time i was camping/canoeing in northern michigan, and i was looking up at the stars... and unbelievably, i caught glimpse of one moving, and it was moving FAST! I fallowed it aaaaalllll the way across the sky until it disappeared into the horizon. I was like, omfg... Zaehet, you just saw a fuckin alien space craft! I was all struttin about thinking i saw an alien when i told a friend about it and he was like dude... quit thinking with your emotions and think reasonably and rationally about what that might have been. I was like... damnit, ok. Think think think think, what could that have been other than an alien space craft, think think think, WAIT! Could it have been a satellite!? I know that there are thousands of satellites orbiting our planet! 

Come to find out, after careful analysis, and reasonable thinking taking emotions out of the equation, it was indeed a satellite. Not an alien, no matter how badly i wanted it to be true, it just, fuckin, wasn't. 

-_Fin_

Some can't handle the truth, some just plain don't want it.

A star just dissapearing, and then reapearing... fuckin really yo? Fools and fanatics my friends, fools and fanatics.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 21, 2012)

Lol fools... says the oblivious lucid dreamer lol


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## Padawanbater2 (May 21, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Lol fools... says the oblivious lucid dreamer lol


Says the hippy who thinks mother nature has wants..


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## doowmd (May 21, 2012)

Every 1 just chill mon...........


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## newbyy (Sep 2, 2012)

the science itself is clearly indicating that there should other life forms in the universe. and there are in my opinion. and did they come to earth that i do not know. but when looking at all the scenarios and witnesses may be they have and always have been on earth


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