# Prune for no Stress/Weak Growth!



## C.Indica (Oct 30, 2011)

Hello Rollitup
I wrote this to help gardeners focus more energy on product, and little to none on waste.
The boring intro that most of you will skip;

This will increase branch strength, lower bud count, and if applied correctly,
dramatically increase quality (Not potency) & quantity of yield.

First and foremost, I would like to thank [email protected]/[email protected] endlessly for his inspiration.
He has donated to the community several rediculously helpful threads, including one on the perfect cure.
What inspired this technique was his LST+Prune for no Popcorn! method.

He combines a simple LST, with some pruning & removal of branches, and turns out fat colas with no popcorn.
I found his method to be a bit brutal and untimed, but relentlessly beneficial.
So I set out to perfect this method, and I would still only consider myself a third of the way there.
Perfection is a human concept.

This can be done from seed or clone, and can be applied to most plant species, especially vegetable gardening & bonsai.
At an internode, a few things happen. First a leaf & two stipules emerge, followed by a branch, and then a couple flowers.
In most topping/pruning techniques, branches are removed at a certain point, wasting so much energy on development.
If you understand the basic way that cannabis grows, then you can have much precision on your pruning, and shape a plant dramatically in it's early stages.

Using a razor blade, I cut out undesired branches the second they appear.
You will see a couple baby leaves emerging as a branch, I just tuck my blade behind them and cut very safely and slowly downward,
towards the petiole. This way I only remove the leaf when I mess up, instead of an accidental topping.

You should 'pop' the branch right out when done right, and two little baby leaves will fall down.

Be very precise, and do not miss the growth tip! Otherwise the branch will continue to drain energy as it grows very stressed.
I usually cut out the third generation of branches. The branches, that come out of the branches, that come out of the main stalk/tree trunk.

But of course depending on goal/environment you may alter this in whatever way.
Using this, you could grow a 5' plant with only one budsite, that would probably spit out a 15" football of bud.
But there are drawbacks..

Having too few nugs, will result in rediculously large colas, but without the high penetration of HID lighting, the insides won't ripen fully
when compared to the outsides.

I strongly encourage you to run a particular strain through this method, with varying #'s of budsites/branches, until you find what they like best.
For example, my recent grow had 5 colas, but some insides were lime green/unripe.

Next time I run this strain that large, I'll do 20 colas.
Next time I run this method, I'll probably avoid LST completely.

I found that colas that grew horizontal, spat out all leaves on one side,
while the other side took longer to fully ripen due to less light.

It's very easy to precisely control the number and strength of branches with this method.
Here's my Lemon Skunk grow, this is a great example of SimonD's method.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/444684-cfl-lemon-skunk-clone.html


I currently have a freshly rooted clone of Lemon Skunk.

Since it's such perfect timing, I'll donate her to the thread.
Her name is Alpha.

I'm already maintaining a strict record of information on her,
she will be grown for one trophy cola, in a 24oz
Dr. Pepper bottle cut down to about 22.

 

Alpha was cut on 10/01, roots appeared 10/17 (Slow..)
She was transplanted into her Dr.Pepper bottle on 10/23, and switched to 15/9 under 60w CFL.
On 10/27 she was switched to 12/12, and today is day 3 Flower.

I notice the budsite just starting to swell, still no hairs yet.

Due to a rediculous experience with Homedepot's "EcoSmart" bulbs burning out
one by one, and losing the receipt, I will be running low CFL wattage.

I have a 40w 5000k, and 3x 20w 2700k's.
Total 100w CFL, 20oz of dirt, Single Cola, Lemon Skunk, X Nutrients(Hydroponix)
Dirt is bulk cheap shitty dirt, mixed with some dolomite lime.


I just grew this strain out with a two month veg, and chopped it @ 56 days flowering.
I feel it was a few days early, but she starting shooting out bananas @ day 49.

We'll see how it goes.


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## Afka (Nov 2, 2011)

Or you could just use your fingers and use a pinching motion involving your nails 

While huge colas LOOK cool, they aren't very marketable (if that's what you do), won't dry/cure right and have to be cut down to pieces to cure, really. Or else you'll get a big smell mold-nugget, been there, done that, smoked it anyway.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 2, 2011)

SOS, just a different day.


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## C.Indica (Nov 2, 2011)

Afka said:


> Or you could just use your fingers and use a pinching motion involving your nails
> 
> While huge colas LOOK cool, they aren't very marketable (if that's what you do), won't dry/cure right and have to be cut down to pieces to cure, really. Or else you'll get a big smell mold-nugget, been there, done that, smoked it anyway.


If you use a Razor Blade, you can remove them smaller and sooner.
The point of this is to remove them before the plant has spent any energy on them.
If it's big enough for you to pluck out, it's just wasted that much more energy.

And this is just the basics, the size & quantity of your buds is up to you.
Don't you see this? You can manipulate it however you want.

I agree with the large colas, that's why I personally am going to do 20 colas next grow, instead of 5.
It's all about what works best for you.

And UB, if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything at all.
Didn't you have a mother?


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## Phaeton (Nov 3, 2011)

Grow the same strain until it is familiar. Everything at the end that should not be there gets cut immediately on the next crop, soon nothing is waste.
I have been growing for 13 years, I do that with light spectrums as well as leaves.

Growers with less experience do not always have a direction and having good lessons repeated is not SOS, but a path from one who has already found the rough spots. I do not have enough focus for long posts, I'm glad other's take the time to do so.

Nothing is for everyone. That's my two cents.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 4, 2011)

C.Indica said:


> The point of this is to remove them before the plant has spent any energy on them.
> If it's big enough for you to pluck out, it's just wasted that much more energy.


Define your use of "energy".


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## newwb (Nov 4, 2011)

This is exactly the type of thread I've been hoping to find..I got a batch of 5 clones at the collective, and all they said were 2 are blue rhino, 2 are jack frost and 1 is NYC Diesel.
They weren't marked, nothing..so I figured I'd let them grow out a bit and maybe some expert could help 2 identify them..I have 4 potted plants of these clones, 1 only had 1 tiny root that tore off upon transplanting(it was very stunted..wanted 2 see why..) so I made another cut, redipped and set into my bubble cloner..still hasn't re rooted (13 days)I also have 5 ICE clones on the bubbles with her, just ph 6.4 h2o and a gtt of super thrive in the 3 gal bucket.
My main problem, besides not knowing each's true strain, is that 2 of them that are growing exactly alike have grown sooo many branches, and branches off their branches, that all the new growth coming out under that mess are either bent/twisted, or worse..I did snip a few of the fan leaves so more light could get in there, all it is doing is growing more stem! One is about 7-8" and 1 is my "runt" and about 3 inches behind, but I see what she is doing, all her juice is going into building a huge network of branches off the branches that come off the main stem.(a newbies guess at why she is so far behind and has all of the same conditions)
Anything I can do to the water in my bubble cloner to make these damn roots pop...been going 12-13 days now and all I can really see is a couple have 1 tiny root, but it's up high, just under the neoprene puck (where I had cut off the lowest leaves)
I want 2 start a grow journal, but am not entirely sure how, any advice available...would be greatly appreciated.
(do I just go to grow journals>add a new thread>and post, if so, how do I link it to my signature, just c/p the page and put it under sig?
Thank you all who have offered much valued assistance so far, though I did lose one of my 1st 2 plants (northern lights) it was just beyond my skill level to bring back, but the other 2 that were sick look sooo much better and tons of new, undamaged growth (not even yellow!!) lol
Will attach a pic or two to give the visual...so if I cut the 3rd generation stuff, this should really thin her out and maybe she'll put all that energy into growing UP!
BTW..the pics 2 and 3 are the same plants, and they are now in 3 gal pots This one is anyway, I wanted to wait on the runt till I see roots on the bottom..
Also..I have a friend I met this past yr and she has grown for many yrs..she has these 5 gal pots she uses, with a hole on each side of the bottom that she places a 12" peice of cotton wicking across the bottom and dangles the remaining 7-8 inches on each side down into the nute bucket, then covers it with soil, adds plant, and she says she never hits the soil with water, the pvc pip drilled into the inner pot is where u water, put a gallon or so in the outer bucket, if I hadn't seen the pics of the pound plus harvests per plant I wouldn't have believed it, but with that kind of yield I thought it was worth a try on a few plants, anyone do only bottom watering?
If educated on this, anyone know why a plant would do better like that?
And I just realized the plant says NYC Diesel..that was before someone told me different..lol


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## newwb (Nov 4, 2011)

Going by what 1 person told me..they "thought" the plant in pic 1 is the "blue rhino" and that the extremely bushy 2 are Jack Frost...any help appreciated..and I forgot to post the "bushy" runt...same growing pattern, just a few inches behind the other..
Peace


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## Boobonik (Nov 4, 2011)

Ok, I follow you this far.. But, how do I know how many branches I need? Is the goal to grow fewer but longer and more illuminated branches for budding?


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## C.Indica (Nov 4, 2011)

Phaeton said:


> Grow the same strain until it is familiar. Everything at the end that should not be there gets cut immediately on the next crop, soon nothing is waste.
> I have been growing for 13 years, I do that with light spectrums as well as leaves.
> 
> Growers with less experience do not always have a direction and having good lessons repeated is not SOS, but a path from one who has already found the rough spots. I do not have enough focus for long posts, I'm glad other's take the time to do so.
> ...


Everyone has preferences. This is more to get people thinking and coming up with their own personal technique.



Uncle Ben said:


> Define your use of "energy".


If the branch that start's off as a little group of cells, becomes a pair of leaves with a growth tip and stipules and all that junk,
it's cost the plant resources to get it this far.
Once those leaves start to develop, they will themselves produce energy for the plant, but until then it's just sucking up "energy".

It's the same thing as popcorn nugs, and removing leaves in early veg. I know you understand this.



newwb said:


> This is exactly the type of thread I've been hoping to find..I got a batch of 5 clones at the collective, and all they said were 2 are blue rhino, 2 are jack frost and 1 is NYC Diesel.
> They weren't marked, nothing..so I figured I'd let them grow out a bit and maybe some expert could help 2 identify them..I have 4 potted plants of these clones, 1 only had 1 tiny root that tore off upon transplanting(it was very stunted..wanted 2 see why..) so I made another cut, redipped and set into my bubble cloner..still hasn't re rooted (13 days)I also have 5 ICE clones on the bubbles with her, just ph 6.4 h2o and a gtt of super thrive in the 3 gal bucket.
> My main problem, besides not knowing each's true strain, is that 2 of them that are growing exactly alike have grown sooo many branches, and branches off their branches, that all the new growth coming out under that mess are either bent/twisted, or worse..I did snip a few of the fan leaves so more light could get in there, all it is doing is growing more stem! One is about 7-8" and 1 is my "runt" and about 3 inches behind, but I see what she is doing, all her juice is going into building a huge network of branches off the branches that come off the main stem.(a newbies guess at why she is so far behind and has all of the same conditions)
> Anything I can do to the water in my bubble cloner to make these damn roots pop...been going 12-13 days now and all I can really see is a couple have 1 tiny root, but it's up high, just under the neoprene puck (where I had cut off the lowest leaves)
> ...





newwb said:


> Going by what 1 person told me..they "thought" the plant in pic 1 is the "blue rhino" and that the extremely bushy 2 are Jack Frost...any help appreciated..and I forgot to post the "bushy" runt...same growing pattern, just a few inches behind the other..
> Peace


Not really sure what to say to this? Hope you find out which are which, you'll notice their true identity in flowering.
If you had a question, ask it, otherwise I suggest you make your own thread to help you identify your genetics.



Boobonik said:


> Ok, I follow you this far.. But, how do I know how many branches I need? Is the goal to grow fewer but longer and more illuminated branches for budding?


This is up to you, your environment, your genetics, and your preferences bro.
I tryed a plant with 5 colas and no popcorn, decided the nugs were too large.
Next grow I'm going to try 20 tops of equal size, with no lower nugs.

Just my personal example.

You could use this for anything, it's not just to produce buds. It's just to avoid spending energy on portions that are later going to be removed.


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## Afka (Nov 4, 2011)

If it's gonna be popcorn come trimming time; it goes during stretch.

That means stuff that is obviously shaded from the canopy, beneath layers (not just 1) of leaves.


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## newwb (Nov 5, 2011)

Well my big question for you was about "trimming and taming that bush of unruly leaves,and what is the best way to accomplish this, but reading/following your advise here helped lots,. I have thinned it out some after reading this, now perhaps it will put it's energy into explosive growth I hear so many mention.
Thank you.


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## obijohn (Nov 5, 2011)

newwb said:


> This is exactly the type of thread I've been hoping to find..I got a batch of 5 clones at the collective, and all they said were 2 are blue rhino, 2 are jack frost and 1 is NYC Diesel.
> They weren't marked, nothing..so I figured I'd let them grow out a bit and maybe some expert could help 2 identify them..I have 4 potted plants of these clones, 1 only had 1 tiny root that tore off upon transplanting(it was very stunted..wanted 2 see why..) so I made another cut, redipped and set into my bubble cloner..still hasn't re rooted (13 days)I also have 5 ICE clones on the bubbles with her, just ph 6.4 h2o and a gtt of super thrive in the 3 gal bucket.
> My main problem, besides not knowing each's true strain, is that 2 of them that are growing exactly alike have grown sooo many branches, and branches off their branches, that all the new growth coming out under that mess are either bent/twisted, or worse..I did snip a few of the fan leaves so more light could get in there, all it is doing is growing more stem! One is about 7-8" and 1 is my "runt" and about 3 inches behind, but I see what she is doing, all her juice is going into building a huge network of branches off the branches that come off the main stem.(a newbies guess at why she is so far behind and has all of the same conditions)
> Anything I can do to the water in my bubble cloner to make these damn roots pop...been going 12-13 days now and all I can really see is a couple have 1 tiny root, but it's up high, just under the neoprene puck (where I had cut off the lowest leaves)
> ...



Sounds like a crappy dispensary, each clone should be labeled


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## fatboyOGOF (Nov 6, 2011)

Afka said:


> Or you could just use your fingers and use a pinching motion involving your nails
> 
> While huge colas LOOK cool, they aren't very marketable (if that's what you do), won't dry/cure right and have to be cut down to pieces to cure, really. Or else you'll get a big smell mold-nugget, been there, done that, smoked it anyway.


my first few grows, i'd keep the colas together just because they looked so cool. now i chop those fuckers into bite sized pieces!


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## Boobonik (Nov 6, 2011)

Ok ok, one more question. So you cut all the branches but 5 to get 5 colas? And now you are tryin to for 20 by having 20 branches?


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## C.Indica (Nov 6, 2011)

Boobonik said:


> Ok ok, one more question. So you cut all the branches but 5 to get 5 colas? And now you are tryin to for 20 by having 20 branches?


Well yes and no.
Due to various factors I don't have a regular grow going on right now.
I'm only flowering one little 3" clone for single cola.

But once I get my 400w up, I'll probably do 4 plants, 20 colas each. No popcorn buds.

Hopefully this will keep all the buds small enough to _fully ripen_.


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## Boobonik (Nov 7, 2011)

Far out man lol


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## C.Indica (Nov 11, 2011)

Haha I don't know how this happened, But I wrote something similar a couple months ago..
What a confusion.
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/459219-prune-top-little-no-stress.html


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## bigchingonaboss (Nov 11, 2011)

so quick synopsis for my ADD: lollipop and then topping multiple times is what you are saying pretty much?


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## C.Indica (Nov 12, 2011)

No not at all, all I'm saying is remove branches when they first appear, rather than when they're 5" long and you decide you don't want them.

How you remove branches and top is up to you.
I topped once for 5 branches, and then removed all side branches on each branch, resulting in 5 buds.
As apposed to the 30-60 something budsites on a natural shape plant.


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## C.Indica (Nov 13, 2011)

Alpha, Day 13.


Alpha has had her side branches removed, without any slowdowns in vigor or strength.
They were removed at each point with a razor blade, before they were more than 1-2mm long.

All of this clone's energy has been shifted into Roots, A strong Canopy (Bear Clawing is my fault, don't know what's happening.)
and of course, Fat flowers!


This is just one example of how you can prune for no stress, the possibilities are endless.
In this particular scenario, she is shaped as a SOG style clone with a single cola.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 13, 2011)

C.Indica said:


> They were removed at each point with a razor blade, before they were more than 1-2mm long.
> 
> All of this clone's energy has been shifted into Roots, A strong Canopy (Bear Clawing is my fault, don't know what's happening.)
> and of course, Fat flowers!


You just fucked up "energy" production by removing leaves.



> This is just one example of how you can prune for no stress, the possibilities are endless.
> In this particular scenario, she is shaped as a SOG style clone with a single cola.


This is one example of how you induce stress. Tell ya what, I'll remove both of your legs and you tell me how it effects your mobility.


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## C.Indica (Nov 13, 2011)

Listen here you piece of shit,
Get the fuck out of my thread with your negative bullshit and smartass revenge attitude.

I thought about it for a second, but I don't even want anything useful you have to say.
I've been watching you troll around like a fucking 13 year old for months now, who do you think you are? You are a human being, on planet earth.

Get out.

And for the record, that quote is describing how I removed branches from the side of the stalk.

There will of course be some stress, but when removing such a small portion of undeveloped tissue, there will be no slowdown in growth.

Now fuck off.


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## Rj41 (Nov 13, 2011)

C.Indica said:


> Alpha, Day 13.
> View attachment 1885677
> 
> Alpha has had her side branches removed, without any slowdowns in vigor or strength.
> ...


Your plant looks TERRIBLY UNHAPPY! 

If that's the best ya got, you should first learn the basics before trying to pass out any advise. Just my $.02


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## C.Indica (Nov 13, 2011)

Rj41 said:


> Your plant looks TERRIBLY UNHAPPY!
> 
> If that's the best ya got, you should first learn the basics before trying to pass out any advise. Just my $.02


Don't worry it was overwatering, figured that out.
First time with the deep skinny containers.
The point is the flower though.

And the same method was applied for 5 colas in the journal below, it works great, see for yourself.


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## Afka (Nov 13, 2011)

It's a perfectly valid practice to remove suckers(not the leaves whose axes they grow out of) to focus growth on the remaining shoots. While you may have a bigger cola, or a prize winning pumpkin/tomato/insert vegetable here... It's detrimental to yield overall, and colas look good but that's about it. 

The only reason I'd see for doing this on cannabis is where you'd have about 9 plants per square foot.


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## Rj41 (Nov 13, 2011)

C.Indica said:


> Don't worry it was overwatering, figured that out.
> First time with the deep skinny containers.
> The point is the flower though.
> 
> And the same method was applied for 5 colas in the journal below, it works great, see for yourself.


All this performance you think you're getting by removing branches, etc. is really only in your head. 
Somewhere along the way someone gave you confused advice that you believed and are now putting into practice.

Personally, I don't think you know enough yet about horticulture to be telling anybody anything.


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 14, 2011)

Rj41 said:


> Your plant looks TERRIBLY UNHAPPY!
> 
> If that's the best ya got, you should first learn the basics before trying to pass out any advise. Just my $.02


That's what happens when you lose your "energy". 



Afka said:


> It's a perfectly valid practice to remove suckers(not the leaves whose axes they grow out of) to focus growth on the remaining shoots. While you may have a bigger cola, or a prize winning pumpkin/tomato/insert vegetable here... It's detrimental to yield overall, and colas look good but that's about it.


If it's green, it has chlorophyll, chloroplasts, etc. and is making food for the plant. _Leave_ it alone. There is no such thing as a "sucker". That's bad advice coming from Grandma and her tomato patch.

Big colas = big production. It's only natural.


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## Afka (Nov 14, 2011)

oops almost fed the troll


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## C.Indica (Nov 14, 2011)

Afka said:


> It's a perfectly valid practice to remove suckers(not the leaves whose axes they grow out of) to focus growth on the remaining shoots. While you may have a bigger cola, or a prize winning pumpkin/tomato/insert vegetable here... It's detrimental to yield overall, and colas look good but that's about it.
> 
> The only reason I'd see for doing this on cannabis is where you'd have about 9 plants per square foot.


The point isn't to isolate for a single cola.. that's just what this clone happens to be going through.

The point is you can pick out which branches you want in the early stages.

Let's say you have a 2" tall clone. It has 5 leaves.
You top it here, and keep 5 branches.
Removing all of those 5 branches side branches, until the plant is say two feet tall.
Now the plant has 5 "colas"
So you plant it outdoors near sulstice,
and by the time it's flowering it became a tree, with 5 massive limbs, supporting dozens and dozens of colas.

Just another example.
You can manipulate it however you want, personally, this grow I have going on right now is a joke. I'm killing time until I can plug in my 400w and go back to bushes.




Rj41 said:


> All this performance you think you're getting by removing branches, etc. is really only in your head.
> You need to use your imagination on this part, you manipulate it however you want.. Not necessarily a single cola.
> Read the above reply, you can do whatever you want with this.. Definately not in my head either.
> Somewhere along the way someone gave you confused advice that you believed and are now putting into practice.
> ...







Uncle Ben said:


> That's what happens when you lose your "energy".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 14, 2011)

The removed leaves turned yellow because they were grown sideways in a cheap ass Dr. Pepper bottle. Word is that late at night you can hear Alpha's ghost moaning for the return of her baby's leaves that some butcher hacked during a full moon.

Next time, try a Pepsi bottle.


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## Rj41 (Nov 15, 2011)

*@c.indica...... sorry you got so butt-hurt over my not stroking your ego.* 

Seriously, read up on the basics. 
You haven't even got a grip on simple watering yet and you're trying to tell others what to do?????

Man up and start accepting the truth - you're still pretty much clueless.


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## C.Indica (Nov 15, 2011)

Rj41 said:


> *@c.indica...... sorry you got so butt-hurt over my not stroking your ego.*
> 
> Seriously, read up on the basics.
> You haven't even got a grip on simple watering yet and you're trying to tell others what to do?????
> ...


I'm afraid you're clueless.
You come into a thread, and suddenly based off one picture of one plant on one day, decide everything you know about me?



I know how to water a fucking plant, I garden as well.

I just didn't cut enough drainage into this deep container.
Simple mistake, which in turn caused her to bear claw, while I made yet another mistake, and began to flush to save a false "overfert"

Now that I've added the drainage, she looks remarkably better day after day, and that flower just keeps getting fatter.
Now I can begin to add nutes again and fix the DEficiency she's been having all along.


Look at the journal in my signature if you don't think I know the basics.
Why are you such a troll? Do you think this is high school competition for social bullshit?

So far you've done nothing but insult me for no reason, if you haven't got something nice to say,
then go with Uncle Ben and get the hell out of here.


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## Brick Top (Nov 15, 2011)

If you want big colas and big buds get rid of that Rube Goldberg kiddiewinkie setup and get yourself some big pots, quality reflective material and a 600-watt or 1000-watt HID light and do it right.


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## C.Indica (Nov 15, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> If you want big colas and big buds get rid of that Rube Goldberg kiddiewinkie setup and get yourself some big pots, quality reflective material and a 600-watt or 1000-watt HID light and do it right.


Does ANYBODY READ?
I'm doing this grow to PASS TIME as I wait until I purchase my ballast and hood.

I have plenty of flowerpots from 4" to 5gal.


I'm planning a 6' tall cabinet, painted smooth white on the inside, with a 400w light
and 4 plants in 5gal buckets.


Alright? but that won't happen soon.
Excellent movie by the way.


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## Brick Top (Nov 15, 2011)

C.Indica said:


> I'm planning a 6' tall cabinet, painted smooth white on the inside, with a 400w light
> and 4 plants in 5gal buckets.


Have you figured out what usable growing height that will leave you? Start with your 6' and subtract the height of your 5-gallon "buckets." From that figure subtract the height of your reflective hood. From that figure subtract the number of inches between your reflective hood and the top of your cabinet when your light is raised as high as it will be able to be raised. From that figure subtract the minimum number of inches that you will need to be able to maintain between your light and the tops of your plants. 

What is left, that number of inches is your usable growing height ... and it will shrink down the 6' you start with considerably and not leave you with a great deal of usable height.


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## C.Indica (Nov 15, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Have you figured out what usable growing height that will leave you? Start with your 6' and subtract the height of your 5-gallon "buckets." From that figure subtract the height of your reflective hood. From that figure subtract the number of inches between your reflective hood and the top of your cabinet when your light is raised as high as it will be able to be raised. From that figure subtract the minimum number of inches that you will need to be able to maintain between your light and the tops of your plants.
> 
> What is left, that number of inches is your usable growing height ... and it will shrink down the 6' you start with considerably and not leave you with a great deal of usable height.


Thanks for the advice, but I'm a step ahead of you.

I've been planning on paper for months and months, constantly upgrading and changing my blueprints.
By the time I build the thing it'll be extremely planned out.

6' (72")
-14" (5g pot, tallest height container, period)
58"
-12" Reflector hood, with whatever remaining height for air flow above hood.
46"
400w light, we'll say about 16" of space before the canopy, just to be on the safe side.
30", but with proper ventilation I could probably have the light about 1' away.

30" of plant is plenty.


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## C.Indica (Nov 21, 2011)

Day 17 Flowering; Alpha!

Day 18 Flowering; Xena!


She's looking much better. New leaves are emerging perfectly, no clawing. The old clawed fan leaves don't seem to be straightening out much more.

[video=youtube;2BWWotMZCPI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BWWotMZCPI[/video]


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## C.Indica (Nov 26, 2011)

Day 28 Flowering; Alpha!


Look at that unruly flower, trying to show off to us.
This with less than 60w CFL.


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## C.Indica (Dec 3, 2011)

*Day 37 Flowering; Xena!*
Here she is a few days before flowering;

And here she is on day 37!


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## Chummerbum (Dec 3, 2011)

hey great job buddy, fuck these assholes that want to shit on an experiment just so they can appear smarter than you. i applaud the effort and i can't wait to see what you end up with. sub'd


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 4, 2011)

C.Indica said:


> *Day 37 Flowering; Xena!*
> Here she is a few days before flowering;
> View attachment 1917354
> And here she is on day 37!
> View attachment 1917355View attachment 1917353View attachment 1917352


huh? .


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## C.Indica (Dec 10, 2011)

Thought I'd throw up this timeline, days 0, 13, 17, 19, 28, 37, 40, 44.
Definately not my best grow, but certainly pretty.


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## Afka (Dec 11, 2011)

Pruning for no weak growth? I'd cut right above where it says Dr.Pepper.


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## C.Indica (Dec 11, 2011)

This plant is <60w CFL total.
Grow up and get out kiddo.


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## indiapale (Dec 11, 2011)

Can't help but laugh! 

You say all the energy goes to the roots etc.... Where do you think that energy is created? Did you ever think that it might be from the growth your hacking off? That stem ain't making any energy. Do you know what photosynthesis is?

You can have your thread. It's a waste of time.


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## Brick Top (Dec 11, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> SOS, just a different day.



Oh my gosh, yet ANOTHER thread about removing healthy leaves! 

You're right Unc. It's like deja-vu, all over again.


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## Brick Top (Dec 11, 2011)

C.Indica said:


> Thanks for the advice, but I'm a step ahead of you.


If I die before Spring and you then go on to make it into your fourth decade of growing, then and only then you will finally be a step ahead of me.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 12, 2011)

Chummerbum said:


> hey great job buddy, ....... i applaud the effort and i can't wait to see what you end up with. sub'd


He ended up with the most pathetic excuse for a cannabis plant I've ever seen.

Hey BT, miss ya at the other site. Hope you re-register!

Tio


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## C.Indica (Dec 12, 2011)

Get out ofhereyou fucks, I didn't chop off any healthy leaves, learn to read dumbshit.
Thelea\ves iI hacked off were pure yellow.

You people are fucking morons if you cantread the first two sentences of a thread.
Also
, you gr\ow under HID's, I'm doing this plant under 60w of CFL.

(Fuck this stupid new text box)


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 13, 2011)

C.Indica said:


> Get out ofhereyou fucks, I didn't chop off any healthy leaves, learn to read dumbshit.
> Thelea\ves iI hacked off were pure yellow.


What's the difference? You can't grow right so you lose leaves prematurely (witness that last photo). Those that do a bit better yank them off thinking it's the thing to do. And if you don't know it by now, every time you remove a leaf you jeopardize the health and production of your plants. Your photos are a testimony to that botanical fact. The irony of it all is that plant is very stressed out. You came in here, Advanced, and posed something as "advanced" under false pretenses. Not smart. 

And telling you what you want to hear doesn't do anyone any good. If I had to guess, you're 15, shouldn't be tinkering with this stuff anyway, and are doing everything wrong while posing quite the opposite using some under lit situation and a stupid container that allows light to the roots. Also, if your gonna post your charlie brown, get a frickin' image editor and at least rotate the pix to an upright position.


Good luck,
UB


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## Chem Dawg (Dec 13, 2011)

Honestly bro I can appreciate your willingness to experiment , but this is a waste of time. It looks like you'd be lucky to score 2 grams off that cola when dried and cured.. For the amount of time it's going to take you to get that 2 grams ( I don't care how tight funds are ), you could have collected an eight worth of cans. Just my opinion. Good luck with everything though!


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## C.Indica (Dec 13, 2011)

Honestly the only reason I grew this plant out is because I wouldhave hadnothing flowering at all, but now I get a littlefresh christmas bud.
& To learn thesimple noob mistakes on bottle grows before I did anything dedicated.


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## C.Indica (Dec 28, 2011)

Well, ignoring the lowlife who thinks he can e-assault my ego,
I'm definately not 15, sir.
That's rediculous, I really hoipe there's no youngin's tryin to grow cannabis..

"Point of this Grow"
-Tokill time, waiting forthe equipment to grow more than one plant.
-To have some smoke right when I run out of my previous harvest, which was a much better grow than this poor thing.
-To learn any tips& tricks ofbottle grows before I go all-out.
-To prove that you can grow plants without anyschwag destined to become butter.

"What wasaccomplished"
I killed time,
I gotnew smoke.
I learned that these are easily overwatwered,A
Andmy entire "harvest"was AAA bud,even though it was a shitty harvest.

I'd say besides the lessons learned, everything went according to plan.
Thread closed, now fuck off you old fag.


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## beans davis (Jan 15, 2012)

This kind of stupid shit is what I'm talking about Brick Top!
In advanced no less.


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## RawBudzski (Jan 15, 2012)

Nice to see you kept it alive that long, now if you get maybe 100 bucks together..200 would be that much better. You can get something going you will be proud of & can slowly improve on. *<3*
If you plan on continuing that is Great! just see this as round 1, maybe order you a cfl lighting setup.. above 100watts.


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## C.Indica (Jan 16, 2012)

You fucking trolls are rediculous.
These pictures are from my third harvest,
it's not like I've never done this before.
I just fucked up THIS grow, now get over it.
We've all had SHITTY grows, and a lot of you trash yours,
I kept mine and documented it.


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## jonnyquest (Jan 17, 2012)

C.Indica said:


> You fucking trolls are rediculous.
> These pictures are from my third harvest,
> it's not like I've never done this before.
> I just fucked up THIS grow, now get over it.
> ...


Based on the amount you use the term "trolls" it would appear that you are 15, 17 at the oldest. Your plant is pathetic and should have been drowned in the canvas sack along with your reputation and dignity. It is crystal clear, or perhaps Dr pepper bottle clear, that you don't have a clue what your doing and have no right to start a thread in an advanced horticulture forum. 

P.s the reason the leaves you removed were yellow is because you are incapable of growing a healthy plant.


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## missnu (Jan 17, 2012)

Yeah, I just inch mine off..If it is growing somewhere I don't want it I just pinch it right off there...no need for a razor...I laways end up cutting my thumbs and then for days they stick out like---you guessed it!---Sore Thumbs...I just kinda roll the tiny itty bitty leaf nodules right off there...new growth is pretty easy to just scrape off...sometimes I don't know if I want to remove a piece or not til I see it actually growing there...ya know...but it seems like the thing to do...all this topping is a lot of trouble...just pinch off the part you don't want...right at the beginning...sometimes I start pinching at the third set of as in I leave the seedling with the first 2 and those 2 get giant and fat and I move all 3 in a triangle kinda position and then as new branches appear I leave 'em or pinch 'em off...depends on how I feel...I have also found that you can LST without strings and what not, just go over and gently bend that branch where you want it, just whenever I check I just bend them over...sometimes I take 2 of the 3 large branches and tie them together in a loose loop...just for fun...all I know is it makes the stems huge!!!! Hell got tired of bending one about after it started growing 5 or 6 new branches everyday so I have finally started tying it down...but seriously one day I am going to make one that looks like a unicorn...topiary MJ..but that out on the front lawn...lol


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## OldGrowAddict (Jan 17, 2012)

What about creating another sub-forum, "Very Advanced Cultivation". That would fix things.


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## C.Indica (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm abandoning this thread.
If you all think you're so much older than me,than 
quit hiding behind internet anonymity to say whatever you like.

And I say "trolls" because that's what I've come to know them as
Haven't we all?


For a bunch of potheads you all sound like ignorant junkies.


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## jonnyquest (Jan 18, 2012)

OldGrowAddict said:


> What about creating another sub-forum, "Very Advanced Cultivation". That would fix things.


The special forum for special boys and girls


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## ch1ll (Jan 19, 2012)

Dude, they clearly don't see or don't want to see the point of your experiment and don't appreciate you documenting a 'bottle' grow.
Maybe this wasn't the appropriate forum section for your topic..
But this actually looks like a very good technique for dense SOG grows and I am very interested in the further development of your plant.
Please just ignore these people who are not interested or not giving constructive criticism.
I am looking forward to see your 400W setup and would like to know how much you yielded...


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## Quitekeen (Feb 12, 2012)

okay so everyone who is talking shit to c.indica is failing to understand the point of his advice:

here it is as simply as it can be put...

SOMETIMES when SOME PEOPLE grow cannabis they choose to remove a branch or top thier plant or fim or etcetcetc... this surely cannot be argued.

IF one is planning on doing this, it is best to have a plan in place and take off branches as soon as possible. The same exact technique is used when pruning bonsai for shape, you prune to direct growth, and it is best done (if you plan to do it anyway) as early as possible and with a pre formed plan in place.

that is all he is saying, his pics and all that are just examples of times he has employed this method. He isnt saying its the best way to grow bud, he is just saying IF you plan to prune, do so with a plan and take branches before they even become branches.

sheesh!


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## C.Indica (Feb 13, 2012)

Holy SHIT,
ONE person, got the ENTIRE POINT,
of this ENTIRE THREAD,
in ONE POST.

Fucking morons.
(Good job Quitekeen, and thanks.)


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## Brick Top (Feb 13, 2012)

C.Indica said:


> I'm planning a 6' tall cabinet, painted *smooth white* on the inside,


If you are going with white paint for a reflective material you should use flat white or titanium white.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 13, 2012)

Quitekeen said:


> SOMETIMES when SOME PEOPLE grow cannabis they choose to remove a branch or top thier plant or fim or etcetcetc... this surely cannot be argued.


The hell it can't be argued. The point of the "experiment" is stupid and the fact that he chose to post it in Advanced is even more stupid. If you have any clue of the function of a leaf, the fact that leaves drive production, then you wouldn't be removing anything. Look at his excuse for a plant. It says it all. Anyone that's ever grown any kind of plant before understands the functional downside to removing branches. You do that with peach and apple trees and grapevines to control production and quality of the fruit, not to an annual like cannabis. 

Your just as well off experimenting with fire by shoving your hand into a burning fireplace.



> .....do so with a plan and take branches before they even become branches.


Say what?

"The plan" is to grow the most amount of healthy foliage and maintain it in prime condition until harvest. Should be a no brainer.

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 13, 2012)

In addition, it's all about the amount and health of chlorophyll which I've been preaching for years. There has been so much emphasis placed on chlorophyll that a meter is being offered for measuring a leaf's chlorophyll content. This link presented by Daniels - http://www.pikeagri.com/vmchk/Chlorophyll/AtLeaf-Chlorophyll-Meter/Detailed-product-flyer.html



> AtLeaf is a powerful, handheld, easy to use device for noninvasively measuring the relative chlorophyll content of green leaf plants. Chlorophyll content can be an indicator of the plant&#8217;s condition.


If you want to get really high tech based on science and not anecdotal evidence, more hokey cannabis forum crap, you could use this instrument on several mutts and like a light meter have points of reference regarding genetics, the garden's cultural profile, etc. You can even store values in this instrument.

UB


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## Quitekeen (Feb 13, 2012)

Brick Top said:


> If you are going with white paint for a reflective material you should use flat white or titanium white.


are they similar or is one better than the other? I have always used flat white for my home made projects (I dont want to deal with attaching mylar). But is Titanium more reflective than flat? If it is then I am off to home depot right now!


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## Quitekeen (Feb 13, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> The hell it can't be argued. The point of the "experiment" is stupid and the fact that he chose to post it in Advanced is even more stupid. If you have any clue of the function of a leaf, the fact that leaves drive production, then you wouldn't be removing anything. Look at his excuse for a plant. It says it all. Anyone that's ever grown any kind of plant before understands the functional downside to removing branches. You do that with peach and apple trees and grapevines to control production and quality of the fruit, not to an annual like cannabis.
> 
> Your just as well off experimenting with fire by shoving your hand into a burning fireplace.
> 
> ...



you are a fucking moron if you think that there is never a reason to train your pot plant. You know why the method "screen of green" has won itself an acronym right (scrog)...?
'
BECAUSE ITS USED SO FUCKING OFTEN!

so "the plan" isnt always to grow a plant exactly as it wants to grow (otherwise you would live in an equatorial region and only grow outside right?), sometimes "the plan" involves making a plant conform to the space you have available and the lights you have access to or have chosen to use (LED, t5, cfl for example). UB it would be more infuriating if you and Brick didnt already have a well known rep for trolling forums. 

Fucking idiot.


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## Quitekeen (Feb 13, 2012)

the most alarming this about UB arguin with you is that he has a sticky in this very sub-forum that is all about topping your plant for more colas... and he STILL is missing the point. Lets hope he is bringing in the bacon from his grows because as an employer I wouldnt hire someone who is obviously so unintelligent.


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## hempknightt (Feb 13, 2012)

All I got from this thread is that this site is retarded. All I ever see now are these so called "advanced" growers talking shit everywhere. Yeah maybe theyve posted a few helpful threads but to go around on every other one and just spew bullshit that is retarded. 

UB i think youve posted one legitimate source of information in this entire thread the rest was just trolling. If you dont want to be helpful then just dont say anything and move on with your life. If you DO feel the NEED to post something then just try and be helpful and not a douche. Seriously every other thread i see you in your just being negative with no real purpose other than being negative. If someones wrong dont just post "omg your an idiot lulz" steer them in the right direction, anything other that that and your just being a troll. Try not to take too much offense to this, I know you have a vast amount of information stored in that little noggin of yours just try and show that side of yourself a little more.

As a stoner ive learned that if your happy and someone else is happy you shouldnt go and fuck their shit up. The people in this thread are just trying to expand their knowledge. Regardless if its SOS or not, I came here looking for viable info instead I ended up reading a 8 page argument about nothing. If your not going to be helpful then please at least try and be less of a douche about it. Thanks.

Hempknightt


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## hempknightt (Feb 13, 2012)

Just to be clear, Im not trying to talk shit about UB here either. Ive talked shit just like everyone probably on this thread has done at some point before. What it really comes down to is that we all need to at some point grow up.

Regardless of the amount of information you hold in you head that doesnt make you better than anyone else here. Everyone that has an account on this site is here because they want to expand their knowledge on the subject. Even is the same thread has been posted 20 other times sometimes its easier to look in the new thread that doesnt have a ridiculous 50 page argument going down it about why the thread is pointless. Also maybe there is newer information or techniques that will come up that werent in the old threads. Im not saying there is or isnt, all Im saying is that we should all be accepting that this is the way information travels on the internet. Its the same in life, you can find multiple books explaining how to cook a steak probably 100's or 1000's of books all telling you the same basic thing. Although I find a lot less people in book stores complaining about it than I do on these forums, and thank god for that too.

I mean I assume(and maybe i shouldnt) that everyone on this site is an adult so if we could all to begin to act like it I would very much appreciate it. This thread itself could be a whole 3 pages shorter if we took out all the useless non-informative brainless posts that were in here. I wouldnt have felt a need to wast 10 minutes of my life writing this, and everyone would be happier because of it. 

Thats the end of my part of non-informative posts in this thread. I just hope people read it and change the way they act on these forums for the better.

Hempknightt


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 13, 2012)

Like throwing pearls before swine.........


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 13, 2012)

Quitekeen said:


> the most alarming this about UB arguin with you is that he has a sticky in this very sub-forum that is all about topping your plant for more colas... and he STILL is missing the point. Lets hope he is bringing in the bacon from his grows because as an employer I wouldnt hire someone who is obviously so unintelligent.


I'm missing the point?


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## mccumcumber (Feb 14, 2012)

Pruning isn't training on annuals. It's just considered pruning.

Training involves little to no pruning. You bring up scrog, which you chop the lower growth but that has more to do an extended veg time to make up for the pruning. The goal of scrog is also to have every nug to be around the same size. It is primarily used in indoor growing when you're growing all the same strain.

I know of a lot of outdoor growers that do prune their bottom branches, but I also know an equal amount who don't. Cutting a leaf off is less productive than keeping a leaf healthy all the way through harvest. However, if you've had problems keeping all of your foliage green in the past, then pruning in advanced might be good for you. There is some speculation that topping the lower growth, applying cloning gel, and burying the branch would provide more root growth... I don't know if I buy into that, but I'm going to give it a try next go around.


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 14, 2012)

mccumcumber said:


> I know of a lot of outdoor growers that do prune their bottom branches, but I also know an equal amount who don't. Cutting a leaf off is less productive than keeping a leaf healthy all the way through harvest.


Bingo. Someone gets it.



> However, if you've had problems keeping all of your foliage green in the past, then pruning in advanced might be good for you.


If you're losing quite a few leaves, you need to find out why.



> There is some speculation that topping the lower growth, applying cloning gel, and burying the branch would provide more root growth... I don't know if I buy into that, but I'm going to give it a try next go around.


No speculation, I've been advising that for years. You don't need cloning adjuncts. Post 4173 for example - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get-209.html


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## hempknightt (Feb 14, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Like throwing pearls before swine.........


If thats the way you feel then just leave. Do you really just have nothing better to do?

EDIT: I read your post on that thread you posted and it sounds like there are some idiots on here that just dont get what you have to say, I get it. But maybe you should push your keyboard away and smoke a blunt before you assume everyone on here is an idiot. There is probably a bunch of good information in that thread but it would take me a month to go through that whole beast of a thread.


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## eDude (Feb 17, 2012)

So funny how old guys HAVE to tell others what to do.. It's never in a respectful way either. It's always barked at you with distain and dripping with arrogance. They try to tear you down while buliding themselves up. All the time they surround themselves with weak minded fan boys. Just think bill o'reilly of pot plants.

Then 'act' like they don't know why people hate them..


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## mccumcumber (Feb 17, 2012)

Would you prefer having bad info in the advanced forum go uncorrected?


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## Uncle Ben (Feb 18, 2012)

mccumcumber said:


> Would you prefer having bad info in the advanced forum go uncorrected?


Yes they would. What's popular is all that counts. Doesn't matter if it's bullshit. If it's popular and "everyone does it", then that's what counts.

What he did and parroted from another site goes against every sound and wise botanical principle in the book.


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## richinweed (Feb 18, 2012)

all i found in this thread are ppl not gettin along again....oh BTW the plants in question look worse than the ones i grew in a city park when i was 13...but hey, some ppl jus dont get it......some ppl "prune just for the sake of bieng interactive with thier plants....with no apparent direction or skill....jmho


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## themda (Feb 18, 2012)

okay what the fuck did i just read. uncle ben is the last person you talk down to, especially if you are still shopping at home depot for cfl bulbs... can mods delete this thread all advice of OP is bogus.


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## eDude (Feb 19, 2012)

U should have mods that know the old farts will get their panties in a bunch if you let a thread like this stay in the advanced thread. LOL old people.. they're so funny.


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## Colorado Dreamer (Dec 31, 2017)

OldGrowAddict said:


> What about creating another sub-forum, "Very Advanced Cultivation". That would fix things.


 LMAO


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