# Phototropism vs gravitropism...



## SamWE19 (Oct 25, 2019)

Anyone with experience growing vertically can tell me why my plants seem to grow upwards as soon as I transplant into my vertical system. 

They have 1100 ppfd at the canopy it’s not like they have lack of light.


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## Joedank (Oct 25, 2019)

Gravity


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## eyderbuddy (Oct 26, 2019)

awesome lol


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## PJ Diaz (Oct 26, 2019)

genetic memory. the plant isn't stupid. it knows if it grew sideways it would flop quick. isn't that the whole point of vertical? hack genetic memory.


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## Lucky Luke (Oct 26, 2019)

You need a scrog to strap them down errr across to.

Even a seed knows where up is.


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## OneHitDone (Oct 26, 2019)

SamWE19 said:


> Anyone with experience growing vertically can tell me why my plants seem to grow upwards as soon as I transplant into my vertical system.
> 
> They have 1100 ppfd at the canopy it’s not like they have lack of light.


Whatcha got there for lighting with the multi-cob per heat sink?


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## SamWE19 (Oct 26, 2019)

OneHitDone said:


> Whatcha got there for lighting with the multi-cob per heat sink?


Each heat sink is 23cm each cob is 15w so 60w in total per heatsink with above 50% efficiency


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## SamWE19 (Oct 26, 2019)

PJ Diaz said:


> genetic memory. the plant isn't stupid. it knows if it grew sideways it would flop quick. isn't that the whole point of vertical? hack genetic memory.


I’ve seen vertical grows where they don’t do this though. Whole point of vertical is to get more usable space... if they won’t grow towards the light we aren’t really gaining any usable space


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## PJ Diaz (Oct 26, 2019)

SamWE19 said:


> I’ve seen vertical grows where they don’t do this though. Whole point of vertical is to get more usable space... if they won’t grow towards the light we aren’t really gaining any usable space


Pics or it didn't happen.


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## SamWE19 (Oct 26, 2019)

PJ Diaz said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.


.... they are growing at a 45 degree angle mine grow 100% vertically. Only reason mine are a bit over is because I had them growing in a normal system for the first 3 weeks of stretch


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## Lucky Luke (Oct 26, 2019)

SamWE19 said:


> .... they are growing at a 45 degree angle mine grow 100% vertically. Only reason mine are a bit over is because I had them growing in a normal system for the first 3 weeks of stretch


theres a black wire holding them back and its SOG done with clones.


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## SamWE19 (Oct 26, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> theres a black wire holding them back and its SOG



Where is this black wire holding them towards the lights lol? Mine is also aiming to be a sog

The only black wire visible is tied to the pipe holding the plants. That wire could only physically pull them away from the lights not towards the lights and they are still pointing more towards the lights than mine. That’s where my confusion is coming from


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## Lucky Luke (Oct 26, 2019)

SamWE19 said:


> Where is this black wire holding them towards the lights lol? Mine is also aiming to be a sog


2nd pic, and its holding them back not towards the light. And its clones.


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## PJ Diaz (Oct 26, 2019)

SamWE19 said:


> .... they are growing at a 45 degree angle mine grow 100% vertically. Only reason mine are a bit over is because I had them growing in a normal system for the first 3 weeks of stretch


Doesn't look all that much different to me.


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## Lucky Luke (Oct 26, 2019)

PJ Diaz said:


> Doesn't look all that much different to me.


agreed, looks like the first pic is seeds, second is clones, otherwise both wanting to head up.


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## Lucky Luke (Oct 26, 2019)

SamWE19 said:


> Anyone with experience growing vertically can tell me why my plants seem to grow upwards as soon as I transplant into my vertical system.
> 
> They have 1100 ppfd at the canopy it’s not like they have lack of light.


Have a good look thru this thread. https://www.rollitup.org/t/ttystikks-vertical-goodness.787572/page-115


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## SamWE19 (Oct 26, 2019)

Lucky Luke said:


> agreed, looks like the first pic is seeds, second is clones, otherwise both wanting to head up.


Yeah I have seeds this run round. Maybe it’s just me but I don’t see how seed or clone would make a difference unless it’s in the pheno selection.

I wish I had a photo of last run round to explain what I mean. If I started a seed or clone straight into this system it grows directly into the pot above. 

I’ll read through that link now cheers


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## PJ Diaz (Oct 26, 2019)

SamWE19 said:


> I’ve seen vertical grows where they don’t do this though. Whole point of vertical is to get more usable space... if they won’t grow towards the light we aren’t really gaining any usable space


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## SamWE19 (Oct 26, 2019)

PJ Diaz said:


>


Yeah I’ve seen that. But if the plant only grows up and not out you don’t really gain anything do you? As you can get 18 inch of penetration on a canopy but my branches grow into each other in vertical


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## Father Ramirez (Oct 27, 2019)

Hi guys, and I hope you don’t object to my chiming in unscientifically. I grow untopped plants on the floor, with a light above the horizon at a slight angle simulating 10a or 2p, at 24”/60cm distance. Sometimes two lights but I like to keep cost down. There is no ‘canopy’ and the plants seem to love it. I’m not averse to work, only extra work


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## ttystikk (Nov 25, 2019)

@Lucky Luke thanks for the shout out, it's nice to know all that work didn't go unnoticed!

OP, what you aren't accounting for is the surface area of the wall. There's a lot of room there. Do the math.

Second, if you want a stronger phototropic response, use higher Kelvin lights. 3500K won't get them to notice the light source like 5000K or 6000K will.

The other thing to keep in mind is those bud stalks have a surprise in store late in the run; they like to sag and fall over! If you have a good run going, it looks like dozens of fat green dicks falling towards the light lol


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## SamWE19 (Nov 25, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> @Lucky Luke thanks for the shout out, it's nice to know all that work didn't go unnoticed!
> 
> OP, what you aren't accounting for is the surface area of the wall. There's a lot of room there. Do the math.
> 
> ...


What do you mean I’m not accounting for the surface area of the wall? When working out my grow space I take the wall as if it was the floor and work out my square footage using the wall instead of the floor. 

Can’t switch my leds now but I could add some extra strip lights in between the cobs. How many watts of these 6000ks do you reckon I’d need? 

So far my buds haven’t tended to sag anymore than my supercropping has done. My stems are strong from the silica though


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## Renfro (Dec 9, 2019)

If left to their own accord, some strains like to spread out and others like to grow straight up, some sorta in between. So some genetics lean more towards phototropism and others more towards gravitropism. Another good reason to select genetics suited to your growing system.


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## Rob Roy (Dec 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> If left to their own accord, some strains like to spread out and others like to grow straight up, some sorta in between. So some genetics lean more towards phototropism and others more towards gravitropism. Another good reason to select genetics suited to your growing system.


Robert C. Clarke described a creeper pheno in his book published a few years back 

It's likely some equatorial sativas had to be creative to fight other plants both cannabis and non cannabis to get to the light. 

Primordial Indicas probably had less worry about access to light / competing with other plants and more worry about drought and cold etc.


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## ttystikk (Dec 15, 2019)

SamWE19 said:


> What do you mean I’m not accounting for the surface area of the wall? When working out my grow space I take the wall as if it was the floor and work out my square footage using the wall instead of the floor.
> 
> Can’t switch my leds now but I could add some extra strip lights in between the cobs. How many watts of these 6000ks do you reckon I’d need?
> 
> So far my buds haven’t tended to sag anymore than my supercropping has done. My stems are strong from the silica though


I ran 3500K LED lights and if I could start over I'd go with 2700K 90 CRI LED lights, then supplement with UVB. Training is what accomplishes good coverage on the trellis panel, that never changes.


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## pinner420 (Jan 28, 2020)

SamWE19 said:


> Yeah I’ve seen that. But if the plant only grows up and not out you don’t really gain anything do you? As you can get 18 inch of penetration on a canopy but my branches grow into each other in vertical


@ttystikk once said "plants like to grow up"! hows your garden doing?


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## gr865 (Jan 28, 2020)

5 screens, 5.55 sqft/screen. So 5 screen equal 27.77 sqft. in a 4 x 4 that equals 16 sqft.
I have to net them up to keep them out of the lights.
Net removed


Netted back to the screen.


After installation


13 days later.


If I just left them alone they would grow into the lamps bigtime.


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## zep_lover (Jan 28, 2020)

plants want to grow up.i veg horizontal and when they go in flower they are only lit by vertical light.at start of flower usually the plant is not as tall as my light bars so the top cob is higher than the plant but it is still side lighting them on an angle.some shoots always reach out for the light though not the whole plant till the buds are getting heavy.i just chopped the plant in the picture(24 days after this pic)and got 460 grams from 320 watts


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## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2020)

Nice to see that I'm remembered!

Nice work in here!


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## OneHitDone (Jan 28, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Nice to see that I'm remembered!
> 
> Nice work in here!


You back up and running yet? Anything you can share about the episode?


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## Aussieaceae (Jan 28, 2020)

Figure maybe people aren't accounting for gravity here?
The plants have no choice but to compensate for it, to support themselves, by growing upward. It's imo how they've had to evolve. Only in nature the sun is upward as well, so it's not as obvious.

In my own experience, a plant always grows in the direction of light.
Outdoors, you can literally observe the plants moving with the sun, as it moves across the sky.
Where there is more light, there is more plant matter.

This would have to be the case for vertical grows as well, i'd assume.

Thinking out loud here, but feel the need to mention it.
Imho OP was mostly correct and on the right track.


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## ttystikk (Jan 29, 2020)

OneHitDone said:


> You back up and running yet? Anything you can share about the episode?


Next door neighbor called the cops and complained. A lot. Then he moved. Shitty all the way around.


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## SamWE19 (Jan 29, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Next door neighbor called the cops and complained. A lot. Then he moved. Shitty all the way around.


How did next door know what you were up to ?


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## ttystikk (Jan 29, 2020)

SamWE19 said:


> How did next door know what you were up to ?


Smell. Even in legal Colorado they can fuck you.


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## SamWE19 (Jan 30, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Smell. Even in legal Colorado they can fuck you.


Did you not use a filter?


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## ttystikk (Feb 5, 2020)

SamWE19 said:


> Did you not use a filter?


Yes but it wasn't enough.


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