# TGA Strains Stable?



## Trulife69 (Jul 6, 2012)

Just was wanting a little input from the growers out there that have run TGA strains...How stable are they? Ive read a bunch of hermie issues with his various strains and was wanting some feedback from you fellow RIU buddies


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## althor (Jul 6, 2012)

I havent gotten any hermies myself. There are major pheno variations for certain.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 6, 2012)

their about as stable as a phillipino hooker


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## auldone (Jul 6, 2012)

I've ran the Plushberry and it herm'd at about the 5th week of flower. A pack of 5 and I pulled 2 females. They were ran at 2 differnt times and both girls popped nanners at that 5 week area. Been hearing A LOT of the more recent gear of his is prone to hermies.... No bueno.


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## racerboy71 (Jul 6, 2012)

in the seed collectors thread, the last 10 pages or so, i have seen a couple of pix of his plushberry that had massive balls and pistils all over it..
not just one or two random balls either but rather full blown hermie..


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 6, 2012)

Jilly Bean and Cheesequake both hermed for me.


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## Marley15 (Jul 6, 2012)

I've only run Plush Berry..popped 4 seeds, got 3 fems. 1 had no nanners, 1 had a few, and 1 had tons (purple pheno). None of the buds were seeded however.

They had some stress so I can't blame the genetics yet, running all 3 phenos again to find out. All 3 are very good and received well by those who tried it. I'd say grab some TGA genetics yourself and put them to the test.


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## auldone (Jul 6, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> in the seed collectors thread, the last 10 pages or so, i have seen a couple of pix of his plushberry that had massive balls and pistils all over it.. not just one or two random balls either but rather full blown hermie..


 Yeah I've never had the hermie issue as I did with the Plush. Nanners all over. I plucked those bastards daily!! It was enough to make me not spend cash on his gear.


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## racerboy71 (Jul 6, 2012)

auldone said:


> Yeah I've never had the hermie issue as I did with the Plush. Nanners all over. I plucked those bastards daily!! It was enough to make me not spend cash on his gear.


 trynatogrow89 also had some hermie pix of his agent orange up in that thread as well..


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## Trulife69 (Jul 6, 2012)

yea I was just wondering..Had a few problems with his ace of spades but not sure it was just a clone from a buddy so hard to say...I also had some issues with vortex..everything was going awesome and then bam couple naners..not sure wtf


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## coolkid.02 (Jul 6, 2012)

Out or a 5 pack of Jilly Bean the two females had terrible inter-sex traits....

One of the two Plush Berry phenos herm'd (the super purple pheno) but regardless it was really dank...

I'm kinda over TGA gear, however I am still about to flower my Jack's Cleaner 2.

I would like to say the Plush Berry Pheno I still have running is da bomb... I consider her my bottom bitch... Haha


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## TheOrganic (Jul 6, 2012)

Wow this thread isn't going good for TGA so far.......2 out of 5 of querkle for me went hermie after week 6 but it wasn't bad just a few nanners on top colas. Passed clones out to people and same thing happened. Good smoke though. But nobody likes a hermie.


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## Guerilla Gardener (Jul 6, 2012)

TheOrganic said:


> Wow this thread isn't going good for TGA so far.......2 out of 5 of querkle for me went hermie after week 6 but it wasn't bad just a few nanners on top colas. Passed clones out to people and same thing happened. Good smoke though. But nobody likes a hermie.


Agreed this thread is really not looking well for him. I was Just about to order Ace of Spades, its sold out everywhere but I found a site... After reading 2 pages of hermie issues with his beans... I'll go elsewhere and invest. Ouch.


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## typoerror (Jul 6, 2012)

just cut down 4 females from a 5 pack. 3 identical space queen dom pheno and 1 that was just a bit different. none showed any color and none showed any nanners. absolutely the best tasting/smelling stuff i've had.

next week i fill my flowering tent with a mix. qrazy train, qush, timewreck, dairy queen. followed by a 5 pack of ace. hope these don't hermie on me.


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## NightbirdX (Jul 7, 2012)

You know its sad, but I can't really remember having any good pheno's that didn't get nanners or something. The okay pheno's were all stable, but I didn't keep them for one reason or another. I've ran Agent Orange and Plush and both get nanners at about week 5 of flowering. Never any full blown herms though. just sterile nanners. I just have picked them out and they stop growing after awhile


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 7, 2012)

jillybean would go herm if under alot of heat stress, i agree. usually a few nanners. Agent orange didn't seem to have this issue, 0verall i would say most of his gear is tough to herm but some strains like Jillybean and Plushberry will go herm in the WRONG conditions, otherwise, All tga gear is great smoke.


i've already grown all his gear but the cheesequake, the flav, Spacejill, and Spacedawg. worst herms were on the purple Jillybean(my favorite pheno). 

i have a Vortex clone that is impossible to herm, heat stress couldn't do it, under watering couldn't, movement stress, super cropping, training... so far i've done everything the the cutting but kill the damn thing and it hasn't tossed a ball or nanner for me yet, it is't impossible to find stable plants in the giant genetic pool that is TGA subcool seeds.


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## Doobius1 (Jul 7, 2012)

This thread has me freakin' as I have 5 tga strains hittin their 5th week of flower. No nanners yet


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## little rich (Jul 7, 2012)

i got 5 chernobyl on the go & they 6 weeks & 4 days into flower & no sign of any balls or nannas yet & they av been stressed a little but i had my chernobyls as clones. i got sum pictures in my photo album take a look if u want & check em out they super coverd in sticky resin


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 7, 2012)

wow yall got such nice things to say about tga seeds. LMAO.............I wonder if subcools seen this thread yet. if so I bet hes crying the blues I actually thought about buying his seeds but all the nice things I've heard about him on this site I would never buy his seeds fem seeds are for pussys its more like 
fem seeds less likely to herm than tga seeds. lol


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## althor (Jul 7, 2012)

Wow, Melonmindbender dude hasnt shown up in this thread calling everyone alot of names yet. This is a first.


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## Gamer621 (Jul 7, 2012)

At least subcool cant come and delete this thread like all the others he deletes in his own sub forum. Oh well, the truth will be told.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 7, 2012)

he must have finally realized tga sucks the big one


althor said:


> Wow, Melonmindbender dude hasnt shown up in this thread calling everyone alot of names yet. This is a first.


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## Clankie (Jul 7, 2012)

Gotta say this is not filling me with confidence towards the Dairy Queen and Chernobyl freebies I have going right now, especially since I'm not particularly interested in keeping them, genetics-wise. While the breeding of polyhybrids can produce a superplant, with desirable characteristics from three or four different powerful strains, it is also likely (often more so) to produce plants that carry one or more undesirable characteristic from these plants. While it is true that plants often herm because of climate-related stress, it is also true that there is a genetic predisposition to do so, and while seed created by an intersex/herm plant will be more likely to carry that disposition, seed created by a herm plant pollinating itself is almost guaranteed to carry the disposition and will likely herm under stress that would normally not induce such a mutation. I'm definitely not saying they have used herms as parent stock in their genetic pool at TGA, but with all these complaints I'm definitely not saying they never have, or that they do not have polyhybrids that have herm prone plants somewhere in their genetic makeup. In addition, one problem with non-stabilized polyhybrids is that they carry a great deal of genetic instability in one generation, with a massive pool of potential genetics, which makes them prone to mutations such as intersex/herm behavior. I have actually yet to have a plant herm on me, but most of what I have grown has been cloned from first gen mothers of Sensi, Serious, MNS, and Next Generation seedstock.

*edit: *Good lord they use their space queen (romulan x cindy 99) genetics in fucking everything, but that seems to be the common thread running through all of the plants you folks seem to have had herm problems with. Does he have like one set of SQ male plant genetics and then just pollinate everyfuckingthing he can find with it, and then either just call it good or backcross it with the non-SQ parent? I'm not trying to be rude, but that's just lame.


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## missnu (Jul 7, 2012)

I ordered a Jilly Bean 5 pack and they were all male...There was a bit of variation amongst the males, but jeez they are male plants, so I didn't worry with them too long..picked 2 and tossed the other 3...


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## wheezer (Jul 7, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> he must have finally realized tga sucks the big one


you know why mindbendermelody or whatever hasn't been here, is I caught him lying on a thread in outdoor saying the pics were his and they were now and I busted his balls. He hasn't been back since that day. it's in the outdoor thread " who thinks they have the biggest plants so far" or somethin. check it out....he's a lying little asshole and prolly don't even know Sub


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## auldone (Jul 7, 2012)

missnu said:


> I ordered a Jilly Bean 5 pack and they were all male...There was a bit of variation amongst the males, but jeez they are male plants, so I didn't worry with them too long..picked 2 and tossed the other 3...


 Somewhere in a thread on here, Sub claims that 70% of all his releases are female seeds. So 7 out of 10 seeds are female, according to Sub... Sure wish he would share what he REALLY smokes!


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 7, 2012)

wheezer said:


> you know why mindbendermelody or whatever hasn't been here, is I caught him lying on a thread in outdoor saying the pics were his and they were now and I busted his balls. He hasn't been back since that day. it's in the outdoor thread " who thinks they have the biggest plants so far" or somethin. check it out....he's a lying little asshole and prolly don't even know Sub


Lol. I just read that thread. Funny how he pops in with a different persona with one of the same pics as his avi.


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## Clankie (Jul 7, 2012)

auldone said:


> Somewhere in a thread on here, Sub claims that 70% of all his releases are female seeds. So 7 out of 10 seeds are female, according to Sub... Sure wish he would share what he REALLY smokes!


Crack? 

Sorry, just had to.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 7, 2012)

if you watched his show you see him with one strain of male and a bunch of diffrent girls. his breeding room probally aint no bigger than 8x8 guys making a bank with all his fans and over priced seeds


Clankie said:


> *edit: *Good lord they use their space queen (romulan x cindy 99) genetics in fucking everything, but that seems to be the common thread running through all of the plants you folks seem to have had herm problems with. Does he have like one set of SQ male plant genetics and then just pollinate everyfuckingthing he can find with it, and then either just call it good or backcross it with the non-SQ parent? I'm not trying to be rude, but that's just lame.


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## althor (Jul 7, 2012)

Clankie said:


> Crack?
> 
> Sorry, just had to.



While I have had no hermies yet, my male/female ratio has been absolutely terrible.
I keep being told I am just unlucky. But I have had 3 males for every female with TGA products.

I would blame myself in this situation except that I have a great female/male ratio for every other breeder. I pop the seeds at the same time, in the same environment. I veg them together, in the same box, in the same environment, I flower them together, in the same box, in the same environment. I would say I average 7 fems out of 10 for every breeder I have tried except TGA.

Let me also say, the finished products I have had, have been outstanding. While not the most potent of bud, I have really enjoyed the types of buzzes and the smells/flavors have been outstanding.


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## Grojak (Jul 7, 2012)

I've grown out a pack of DQ 3 fems 2 males 1 keeper no banners, I currently have 5 Deep Purple going in veg *fingures crossed* my seeds are old though, I got them a year ago so I'm sure it's a different batch than what folks are getting now. So no hermie issues thus far for me but STABLE genes, hell no. If your a pheno hunter that would rather by 10 seeds and get 6 different pheno's have at, if your looking for uniformity please look elsewhere, but if your a tool who is prone to idolize other tools TGA all the WAY!!!


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 7, 2012)

wheezer said:


> you know why mindbendermelody or whatever hasn't been here, is I caught him lying on a thread in outdoor saying the pics were his and they were now and I busted his balls. He hasn't been back since that day. it's in the outdoor thread " who thinks they have the biggest plants so far" or somethin. check it out....he's a lying little asshole and prolly don't even know Sub


 all i know is, he had a pick of Dimebag as his avatar, which was full of win.... RIP Dimebag.


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## canna_420 (Jul 7, 2012)

Subs seeds are bad hacks that produce some great phenos no good for breeding with realy.

Allthough if you were to feminise the right phenos you would be onto a winner.

I dont like sub as a breeder (hacker) but I do like some of his vars. Chernobyl is awsome (the phenos ive done)


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## CharlieBud (Jul 7, 2012)

The older strains are more stable then the more recent.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 7, 2012)

Grojak said:


> I've grown out a pack of DQ 3 fems 2 males 1 keeper no banners, I currently have 5 Deep Purple going in veg *fingures crossed* my seeds are old though, I got them a year ago so I'm sure it's a different batch than what folks are getting now. So no hermie issues thus far for me but STABLE genes, hell no. If your a pheno hunter that would rather by 10 seeds and get 6 different pheno's have at, if your looking for uniformity please look elsewhere, but if your a tool who is prone to idolize other tools TGA all the WAY!!!


i had a freebie of the DQ that smelled like twizzlers and black licorice, it was really nice until someone stole it  i agree that it wasn't top of the heap but it had bag appeal/smell/flavor that would turn heads and a good enough high/stoned combo.


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 7, 2012)

canna_420 said:


> Subs seeds are bad hacks that produce some great phenos no good for breeding with realy.
> 
> Allthough if you were to feminise the right phenos you would be onto a winner.
> 
> I dont like sub as a breeder (hacker) but I do like some of his vars. Chernobyl is awsome (the phenos ive done)


Chernobyl was bred by Dioxin, not Sub, and is actually the only strain in their whole catalog that I'd consider growing.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 7, 2012)

canna_420 said:


> Subs seeds are bad hacks that produce some great phenos no good for breeding with realy.
> 
> Allthough if you were to feminise the right phenos you would be onto a winner.
> 
> I dont like sub as a breeder (hacker) but I do like some of his vars. Chernobyl is awsome (the phenos ive done)


 i'm making f2's of his chernobyl, f3's(f4's?) of Spacebomb, Ace of spades f2's, The Void f2's, The Third Dimension F2's, Agent Orange F2's and Ripped Bubba f2's. I'll make a journal once they are done around october/november.


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## Clankie (Jul 7, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> if you watched his show you see him with one strain of male and a bunch of diffrent girls. his breeding room probally aint no bigger than 8x8 guys making a bank with all his fans and over priced seeds


I think you just convinced me to start a seed company. It seems like such a winning formula: 'recreate' another seed breeders lost strain, buy/otherwise obtain other people's stabilized hybrids, cross pollinate, profit. I mean just looking at the makeup of TGA's strains, it looks like every single one of them could express anywhere from 6-10 or even more phenotypes, which in a bag of like 10 seeds just seems ridiculous. Seems like more of a 'seed manufacturer' than a breeder, if you ask me. Of course, a cursory walk through the brands available on any major seed bank seems to indicate that they are far from alone in this category.


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## vapor85 (Jul 7, 2012)

It's been my opinion for a while now that Subcool needs to start selling packs of 20 seeds ONLY for the same price because of how unstable his stuff is... not to mention the occasional herm or runty mutant plant that needs to be culled.


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## smoke and coke (Jul 7, 2012)

missnu said:


> I ordered a Jilly Bean 5 pack and they were all male...There was a bit of variation amongst the males, but jeez they are male plants, so I didn't worry with them too long..picked 2 and tossed the other 3...



thats because i got the other half of your 10 pack. you got the males and i got the females lol j/k

i bought a 10 pack of jilly bean. popped 2 and both were males. both had same growth and branch structure and very bushy.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 7, 2012)

yea, his seeds should be nirvana prices


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## Doobius1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Said on Weed Nerd he only makes a $1 per seed. Attitude makes the other $99 I guess.


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## missnu (Jul 7, 2012)

auldone said:


> Somewhere in a thread on here, Sub claims that 70% of all his releases are female seeds. So 7 out of 10 seeds are female, according to Sub... Sure wish he would share what he REALLY smokes!


Well so far since trying TGA I have gotten a 5/5 male ratio with no females for comparison...one of the males I kept is a weirdie though...it is growing pollen sacks mid leaf, the way we sometimes see mutie plants grow tiny buds there...


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## racerboy71 (Jul 7, 2012)

Doobius1 said:


> Said on Weed Nerd he only makes a $1 per seed. Attitude makes the other $99 I guess.


 i think most vendors split the price of a pack of beans right down the middle, so for a $100 pack of beans, the breeders get $50, and the bank gets $50, i know for a fact that's how most banks work..


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## hovering (Jul 7, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> Just was wanting a little input from the growers out there that have run TGA strains...How stable are they? Ive read a bunch of hermie issues with his various strains and was wanting some feedback from you fellow RIU buddies


I wouldn't question anyone elses experience but mine has been totally cool.

I've run a bunch of TGA genetics without hermie issues at all (see my signature).

I love the genetic profiles with the variety of phenotypes. I have gotten *at least* one super dank keeper mother from every 5 pack so far, that is why I am continuing to run through TGA's available strains.

I certainly have my favorite TGA strains but as far as hermies, I don't worry about them any more than with other breeders and probably less so.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 7, 2012)

hovering said:


> I wouldn't question anyone elses experience but mine has been totally cool.
> 
> I've run a bunch of TGA genetics without hermie issues at all (see my signature).
> 
> ...


how much is subcool paying you? or are you subcools secret profile?
all them strains and not one hermie and all these people have herm problems left and right I call bullshit on that one


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## lahadaextranjera (Jul 7, 2012)

I wanna go undercover for Serious Seeds !!!


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## hovering (Jul 7, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> how much is subcool paying you? or are you subcools secret profile?
> all them strains and not one hermie and all these people have herm problems left and right I call bullshit on that one


Ha! I just grow for my patients and do journals.

Sorry man. I have no agenda except for my patients health and well-being (I am a patient too).

--------------

edit: I started running TGA because it is they are the only genetics available to me locally. I keep running TGA genetics because I like them.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 7, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> how much is subcool paying you? or are you subcools secret profile?
> all them strains and not one hermie and all these people have herm problems left and right I call bullshit on that one


 i doubt it, i've gotten keeper worthy plants from 5 packs, hell i just got one(even though i grew a 10 pack of the same strain that yielded me some good but not keeper plants) from a 5 pack, it isn't unlikely.


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## Grojak (Jul 7, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> i think most vendors split the price of a pack of beans right down the middle, so for a $100 pack of beans, the breeders get $50, and the bank gets $50, i know for a fact that's how most banks work..



He sells his beans for 40 a pack locally, I picked up some beans at a local event (they didn't even check for my paperwork which is shady, I had it though), I know he was making more than $1 a pack there!!


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## stak (Jul 7, 2012)

Doobius1 said:


> Said on Weed Nerd he only makes a $1 per seed. Attitude makes the other $99 I guess.


There's probably just a bunch of markups after it leaves TGA's hands and before it gets in the customers.

TGA sells a 10 pack of seeds for say $20 per pack to their distributor. The distributor needs to make money so he's gonna raise the price when he sells them to the seedbanks or dispensaries. In most industries a distributor will tack on anywhere from 5-30%, or even higher if they can get away with it. 100% markups are not uncommon when dealing with cannabis or other drugs. So the distributor sells the packs for $40 or more per pack to the seedbank then the seedbank has to add their markup. They need to cover their costs, cover replacement or defective seeds, and still make a profit, so they're gonna double it as well. So now it's gonna be sold for at least $80 per pack. And it'll be higher if there are more hands that touch those seed packs before they get to a customer or if the distributor/retailer is greedy and wants more money.


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## Barrelhse (Jul 7, 2012)

I ran a nice Cheesequake pheno for about 18 mos, usually pulled a few bananas off here and there but no real probs. I have a Plushberry at 7 wks, also throwing a few bananas. I don't worry about that if it's just a few, many varieties do it- just pick out the bananas with tweezers and they're fine. I've done several TGA singles and never had a hermie issue, althuogh some of the strains didn't really live up to the propaganda. The only full hermie I ever had was a Critical Sensi Star- beautiful plant, frosted and lemony at 5 wks, then threw out huge clusters of male flowers everywhere so I had to yank it.

EDIT: I haven't looked for a day or 2, just went down and found a lot more bananas than I'd like on a 52 day Plushberry. Most seemed to be on the buds on just one branch so I took that one off. Too bad, it's just getting some magenta hues that I didn't think would come out on this one. I have another one 2 wks behind this with no bananas yet.


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## TheMadScientist99 (Jul 7, 2012)

auldone said:


> Somewhere in a thread on here, Sub claims that 70% of all his releases are female seeds. So 7 out of 10 seeds are female, according to Sub... Sure wish he would share what he REALLY smokes!


Speaking for myself only, but as for my seeds from tga were over 70% females with no herms. From other breeders typically above 50% female for me. Sorry about whatever you have experienced. I do believe more than other strains from other breeders, tga strains do better in a supersoil type environment than other mediums because they were breed to grow in soil. I stopped growing other breeders strains because I switched to supersoil from hydro and found the other breeders strains just didn't do as well as subs in the supersoil.


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 7, 2012)

Not true. Plants don't care if they're in soil or hydroton or whatever as long as they get the nutrients/o2 they require. 


TheMadScientist99 said:


> tga strains do better in a supersoil type environment than other mediums because they were breed to grow in soil.


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## Jogro (Jul 7, 2012)

Doobius1 said:


> Said on Weed Nerd he only makes a $1 per seed. Attitude makes the other $99 I guess.


A pack has ten seeds and retails for what, $100? (I think Ontario seedbank had these for $75 for a while). The seedbank is paying wholesale for them, which is probably only about half the retail, or possibly even a bit less. 

Meanwhile, Sub still has to develop the lines, grow and maintain the plants, make the seeds and quality control them, pack them, ship them to the retailer (which may entail confiscation or other legal risk), market them, etc. I'm not privy to the details of his business, but I don't think he's doing all these things personally, meaning he has to pay others to do at least some of the work. If there is legal risk, the pay has to reflect it. Once you factor in all the expenses, I can see him only netting $10-15 a pack, at least in initial runs. 

Personally, I've got no issue with the cost. The guy has to make a living and he can ask whatever he likes for his seeds. Ultimately he doesn't decide what they're worth, the market does. If he asks more than other seeds of the same quality, he's going to have very few buyers. If they don't deliver for some other reason, same thing. 

My issue is that most of the TGA strains are non-stabilized polyhybrids. That's OK, in the sense that you certainly can get excellent and unique plants from these sorts of crosses. The problem is that you may have to wade through a lot of different plants to find the ones that really represent the best quality of the "strain" (and in this case the term "strain" is used loosely!). In other words, YOU'RE the one doing the selection, not the breeder. As a secondary issue, for genetic reasons "strains" like this typically CANNOT be entirely stabilized, and even crossing plants like this with themselves will throw off a wide variety of phenotypes. 

Lets say I buy a pack of ten seeds. Just by chance 1-2 of them may not germinate or make it out of seedling stage. Out of the remaining eight or nine, lets say I get five females. (And I might even get less). 

With only five females to select from, I "should" have a good shot of getting one that has that "killer" phenotype. But its a gamble; with only a few females in any pack and many possible genetic variations, any given pack simply may not contain any seeds that have that great phenotype. Now, if I had the financial ability to buy a few packs, and to grow out 5-10-20 plants at once, then do the selection to find an extra special "mother" plant for cloning, I would be assured of finding that great phenotype, but that's an expensive, and somewhat labor-intensive proposition just to find one plant. From a practical standpoint, it might be easier/cheaper for me to just locate an already selected clone. 

What if I'm a small personal grower, and I want to start from seed each time? Not so good. I don't want to have to pay $100 for a roll of the dice every time I buy a pack of seeds. 

What if I'm limited to only a small number of plants for space or legal reasons, and I'm already growing out two or three other "keepers"? Even if the money for the seeds is no object, if I can only grow a few plants at a time, finding that "keeper" plant may not be easy or practical, and I might be committing all my spare "slots" to plants that ultimately don't turn out to be all that interesting. Again, not so good. 

So, to my way of thinking, with so much great genetics out there, if I'm going to be paying $100 for a pack of ten seeds, then I want ALL of them to be potentially excellent, or at least give me something I need that I can't find elsewhere. 

If I can only count on maybe 1-2 of the seeds in the pack to be excellent, then ultimately I'm paying $50 or $100 *PER SEED*, PLUS my time and labor in doing the selection to find the good phenotypes, PLUS the opportunity cost of not growing something ELSE during that same time. 

Not worth it to me.


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## Clankie (Jul 7, 2012)

TheMadScientist99 said:


> ...other breeders strains just didn't do as well as subs in the supersoil.


Isn't that just a reason to stop using this supersoil? 
No, I'm just messin' because you're talking nonsense. 'breed to grow in soil'
I'm just going to relax in the sublime ridiculousness of that comment.


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## wheezer (Jul 7, 2012)

yea I didn't know there were genes in the plant that knew whether it was groing in soil or hydro....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..OH THIS SHIT KILLS ME!


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## Trulife69 (Jul 7, 2012)

Jogro great post man


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## Trulife69 (Jul 7, 2012)

I have 3 different tga dairy queen phenos that I will throw in flower in a couple weeks,it will be interesting to see how it goes. I have heard some of subcools strains grow good smoke but seems like there is so much variance and problems with the majority of his strains. I have also heard he is good about deleting any negative post online in his threads ha. Seems his seeds are more of a hassel than what it's worth.
Im waiting for sub to show up in this form and confirm that his strains are meant to be growin in supersoil haha


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## Amaximus (Jul 8, 2012)

TheMadScientist99 said:


> Speaking for myself only, but as for my seeds from tga were over 70% females with no herms. From other breeders typically above 50% female for me. Sorry about whatever you have experienced. I do believe more than other strains from other breeders, tga strains do better in a supersoil type environment than other mediums because they were breed to grow in soil. I stopped growing other breeders strains because I switched to supersoil from hydro and found the other breeders strains just didn't do as well as subs in the supersoil.


Muhahahahahaha!


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 8, 2012)

nirvana seeds are cheaper from attitude then direct from nirvana I'll let you do the math


Jogro said:


> A pack has ten seeds and retails for what, $100? (I think Ontario seedbank had these for $75 for a while). The seedbank is paying wholesale for them, which is probably only about half the retail, or possibly even a bit less.
> 
> Meanwhile, Sub still has to develop the lines, grow and maintain the plants, make the seeds and quality control them, pack them, ship them to the retailer (which may entail confiscation or other legal risk), market them, etc. I'm not privy to the details of his business, but I don't think he's doing all these things personally, meaning he has to pay others to do at least some of the work. If there is legal risk, the pay has to reflect it. Once you factor in all the expenses, I can see him only netting $10-15 a pack, at least in initial runs.
> 
> ...


----------



## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 8, 2012)

wheezer said:


> yea I didn't know there were genes in the plant that knew whether it was groing in soil or hydro....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..OH THIS SHIT KILLS ME!


Hah, you like that eh? Pure comedy. Here's another one of Sub's fanboys talking the same shit. 


Ccoastal said:


> yeah pretty much all will work in any enviroment but some are predispositioned to work better in super soil as some are better outdoor/in greenhouses/ indoor





Ccoastal said:


> There are absolutely strains that do better in diff mediums.
> 
> Some strains don't like hydro, just as some don't like super soil.
> 
> ...


Lol


----------



## Gamer621 (Jul 8, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> I have also heard he is good about deleting any negative post online in his threads ha. Seems his seeds are more of a hassel than what it's worth.
> Im waiting for sub to show up in this form and confirm that his strains are meant to be growin in supersoil haha


Deleteing negative posts? The man deletes posts that might be negative or might become negative to him or anything he is related to. The man is a complete nazi about it. He wouldn't give the light of day to this thread. He wont come here. He certainly won't try to defend himself or his strains. Why would he? He cannot. At least not with his real account.

Hey! Think we can promote a "Swerve vs Subcool eXtreme Hermie Seed Deathmatch"? Sponsored by Mountain Dew Red Alert of course.


----------



## T Ray (Jul 8, 2012)

Gamer621 said:


> Deleteing negative posts? The man deletes posts that might be negative or might become negative to him or anything he is related to. The man is a complete nazi about it. He wouldn't give the light of day to this thread. He wont come here. He certainly won't try to defend himself or his strains. Why would he? He cannot. At least not with his real account.
> 
> Hey! Think we can promote a "Swerve vs Subcool eXtreme Hermie Seed Deathmatch"? Sponsored by Mountain Dew Red Alert of course.



It's funny how everyone says that all the negative shit is deleted and that he has tons of hermies. I grown about 30 or so TGA seeds in many varieties and I have had one full herm (culled) and one that showed Nanners 48 days (culled) in. I have actually posted both (one with pictures) on his forum and neither has been deleted nor contested by Sub. Oh also I believe Weezer just posted some nanners on a AO thread and are still up and uncontested. 


https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/501670-tga-qush-bubba-kush-x-4.html Post 40 Pheno #6

https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/523270-tga-pre-98-bubba-kush-2.html Post 20


Now I do agree that getting nanner's late in flower can be bad, but when growing seeds shouldn't you be diligently looking for nanners since it's a unknown and you haven't ran it before? Even the best breeders have hermies/nanner throwers. I know for me, anytime I run something from seed I always check for nanners/herms. It's just common sense.

Anyone's genetics can herm. I was reading "the seed collectors thread" and Bodhi had a bunch herm, but I don't see anyone posting about his shit herming and honestly people were shocked and didn't want to believe it. Shit happens. You as a grower need to watch what you pop, and cull out the ones that don't make the cut. It's simple. 

Oh and if you want to talk so much shit about Subcool having hermies, here's someone talking about probably the most respected breeder in the business having issues as well. It happens. You cull it and move on. 

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227405


I'll take a couple hermies all day if it means at the end of the day that the selections I actually choose are dank as fuck. Which is the case with TGA genetics. Reward outweighs the risk for me. 


T-Ray


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## Gamer621 (Jul 8, 2012)

Yes, Any plant can hermie. Agreed. What was your point? You seem to think 5 pages of this thread are all about how only subcools seeds hermie? We're picking on subcool genetics while all other breeder's genetics are just as flawed? Come on, Get a clue. We're jumping on his seed because his genetics are as stable as Charlie Sheen. While all people that kill are murderers, only some are serial killers. Subcool's genetics are a serial killer.

Just because sub allows a few hermie posts (POSTS, not threads) get through doesnt mean shit. The guy has a cow if you mention feminized seeds. As if femmed seeds somehow have anything to do with anything, Unless your a greedy breeder.

You clearly think this is a simple attack on subcool about things beyond his control that all breeders experience. Wrong. This is about subcool's genetics sucking. You cna do everything right and his shit seeds will hermie.

You clearly missed the point. Go read the last 5 pages and let me know when you find it.


----------



## TheMan13 (Jul 8, 2012)

_*Hey guys having hermied many good genetics myself, it is my understanding that stress is the #1 cause of hermies. *__*A plants sole intent is to reproduce and fear of death by stress will cause plants to attempt reproduction on it's own.*_
_*For example, nanners are common on good plants left too long into flowering. The plant knows it faces death and makes a last ditch effort to reproduce.*_
_*
Just my opinion, but I found it odd that in 7 pages of this thread no one has mentioned these facts of the matter.
*_


----------



## VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO (Jul 8, 2012)

TheMan13 said:


> _*Hey guys having hermied many good genetics myself, it is my understanding that stress is the #1 cause of hermies. *__*A plants sole intent is to reproduce and fear of death by stress will cause plants to attempt reproduction on it's own.*_
> _*For example, nanners are common on good plants left too long into flowering. The plant knows it faces death and makes a last ditch effort to reproduce.*_
> _*
> Just my opinion, but I found it odd that in 7 pages of this thread no one has mentioned these facts of the matter.
> *_


I find it funny that this is your first and only post and you happened to start here. LMFAO

the charlie sheen comment by gamer was funny as hell to.


----------



## Gamer621 (Jul 8, 2012)

That is probably because we're not talking about stressing plants in any way causing hermies. We know that happens, or at least I hope anyone on here trying to sound intelligent knows that. We're taking about plants starting to hermi "just because", as it would appear. Stress also doesn't account for 8 of 10 seeds being male or 5 of 5.

But hey, You registered in July 2012 and have 1 post so I'm totally sure your not trolling.


----------



## Clankie (Jul 8, 2012)

Gamer621 said:


> This is about subcool's genetics sucking. You can do everything right and his shit seeds will hermie.


From the description of Jack the Ripper Jack the Ripper is a "Pluton X Purple Haze X Lambsbread X NL X Jack Herer X Romulan X Cindy 99BCGA" 

So, that's like 7 sets of genetics, most of which are already hybrids, in one strain. That he then breeds with other ridiculous polyhybrids. So the only thing I really have to say about the whole thing is that with genetics like that, herms shouldn't even be considered a surprising mutation. A surprising mutation would be if it started getting up and walking around on its own. TGA claims to be about the 'science of dank' but it is pretty obvious that they are the equivalent of a 7 year old playing with his first chemistry set, just mixing everything that came in the box. There may be a lot of good potential phenos in any TGA strain, but clearly the best result for their seeds is simply to find a good mother to cut clones from, which is my optimum result from all the TGA freebies that attitude threw at me last month. However, even a hobbyist breeder should have the common sense to avoid introducing that kind of crapshoot genetics into their breeding stock.

Even furthermore, with breeding polyhybrids like that, even his best work is really just the result of other breeders' work. Any jackass (like me!) can buy two packs of stable hybrid seed from two different breeders, and then cross them, and you know you'll get mostly good phenos. But more than taking credit for anything, you should be thanking the breeders of your parent stock, who did the actual work in this case.


----------



## T Ray (Jul 8, 2012)

Gamer621 said:


> Yes, Any plant can hermie. Agreed. What was your point? You seem to think 5 pages of this thread are all about how only subcools seeds hermie? We're picking on subcool genetics while all other breeder's genetics are just as flawed? Come on, Get a clue. We're jumping on his seed because his genetics are as stable as Charlie Sheen. While all people that kill are murderers, only some are serial killers. Subcool's genetics are a serial killer.
> 
> Just because sub allows a few hermie posts (POSTS, not threads) get through doesnt mean shit. The guy has a cow if you mention feminized seeds. As if femmed seeds somehow have anything to do with anything, Unless your a greedy breeder.
> 
> ...


Clearly, I can see that you don't look at the results. I can also clearly see that you didn't see that I was responding to a specific quote (not the first five pages), hence the using "Reply WITH Quote" feature. How many TGA seeds have you personally grown out chief? 

Go look at Matt Rize,T-Curtiss,Nugbuckets , Hovering , Ocanabis. Tell me they dont grow dank. You crack me up guy.

BTW Nugbuckets has got a chance at a HT cover growing some TGA Ace of Spades.

If TGA genetics suck so bad then how come person after person is showing pictures of dank ass TGA grown all the time? 

Proofs in the pic's man. You don't just magically grow shit that looks like that. It's good genetics and growing skills.

T-Ray


----------



## bluntmassa1 (Jul 8, 2012)

whats up subcool ? you open a new account today?


TheMan13 said:


> _*Hey guys having hermied many good genetics myself, it is my understanding that stress is the #1 cause of hermies. *__*A plants sole intent is to reproduce and fear of death by stress will cause plants to attempt reproduction on it's own.*_
> _*For example, nanners are common on good plants left too long into flowering. The plant knows it faces death and makes a last ditch effort to reproduce.*_
> _*
> Just my opinion, but I found it odd that in 7 pages of this thread no one has mentioned these facts of the matter.
> *_


----------



## VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO (Jul 8, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> whats up subcool ? you open a new account today?


[video=youtube;DhrfhjLd9e4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhrfhjLd9e4[/video]


----------



## Gamer621 (Jul 8, 2012)

T Ray said:


> Clearly, I can see that you don't look at the results. I can also clearly see that you didn't see that I was responding to a specific quote (not the first five pages), hence the using "Reply WITH Quote" feature. How many TGA seeds have you personally grown out chief?
> 
> Go look at Matt Rize,T-Curtiss,Nugbuckets , Hovering , Ocanabis. Tell me they dont grow dank. You crack me up guy.
> 
> ...


Talking to a brick wall. Done with you.


----------



## stak (Jul 8, 2012)

Gamer621 said:


> Talking to a brick wall. Done with you.


Ain't it a bitch when someone brings logic and common sense into the discussion?


----------



## Clankie (Jul 8, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> whats up subcool ? you open a new account today?





TheMan13 said:


> _*Hey guys having hermied many good genetics myself, it is my...*_


*Hey guys having hermied many good genetics myself
**Hey guys having hermied many good genetics myself*
*Hey guys having hermied many good genetics myself*

Obvs.


----------



## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 8, 2012)

T Ray said:


> Clearly, I can see that you don't look at the results. I can also clearly see that you didn't see that I was responding to a specific quote (not the first five pages), hence the using "Reply WITH Quote" feature. How many TGA seeds have you personally grown out chief?
> 
> Go look at Matt Rize,T-Curtiss,Nugbuckets , Hovering , Ocanabis. Tell me they dont grow dank. You crack me up guy.
> 
> ...


My Jilly Bean was beautiful and had really nice coloring, lots of dense buds, nice smell, but hermed and was mediocre smoke. Looks can be deceiving. That's why I don't buy strains solely based on pictures and high times covers. Matt knows Sub personally so there is going to be some bias there, and the other dudes get free shit from Sub so there is some bias there too. Might as well tell us what Subs mom thinks of him too. I can tell you out of everything I've grown and smoked myself and smoked from others, TGAs been some of the least potent shit and the herms just turned me off even more.


----------



## Jogro (Jul 8, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> nirvana seeds are cheaper from attitude then direct from nirvana I'll let you do the math


I don't undertstand this remark. What math are you talking about?

In *any* business, wholesalers invariably charge 100% full retail for their product if they sell to the general public. 

They *have* to do that, otherwise, they'd be undercutting their own distributors. With their distributors unable to sell product at a profit, it hurts THEM. 

From a business standpoint it comes down to margin vs volume. You get better margins selling directly the public, but less volume. 

In this case specifically, because Attitude has a huge customer base, Nirvana *wants* to have its seeds carried by Attitude, and in fact, it probably sells many times as many seeds through Attitude than it does off its own website. 




> Originally Posted by *Ccoastal* *
> 
> yeah pretty much all will work in any enviroment but some are predispositioned to work better in super soil as some are better outdoor/in greenhouses/ indoor
> *


Looking at this comment in the best possible light, I'd agree that since Sub grows, breeds, and presumably selects all his lines in super-soil, all his plants should thrive in that medium.

To be clear here, the Super-soil is a highly enriched organic medium designed specifically for growing cannabis. Though different strains have *slightly* different needs for optimal growth, this particular mix by design has an abundance of all necessary nutrients, and pretty much any plant "should" do well in that medium. 

But so long as their nutritional needs are met TGA plants should be able to do well in a variety of growing conditions. Having or not having supersoil shouldn't be the "make or break" factor in growing TGA plants (or any plants).


----------



## Jogro (Jul 8, 2012)

T Ray said:


> If TGA genetics suck so bad then how come person after person is showing pictures of dank ass TGA grown all the time?


Two points, and they're important:

-How a bud LOOKS in pictures (particularly ones taken professionally, then selected for publication) and how it SMOKES are often different. With fundamentally good growing, and enough lighting, macro lenses, background, etc, you can make the buds from any plant look good. Kind of like how with enough makeup, lighting, angles, you can make almost anyone look interesting in a picture. 

-I don't think anyone is saying that all the TGA plants are bad. The issue is that the lines aren't stabilized. Its easy to make great pictures if you're taking of them of that one great plant you've selected out of 25 planted seeds (or from a cutting that someone else has done the selection on already).

The issue/question is about how many seeds you have to grow out before you find a great plant to take the pictures of!


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 8, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> nirvana seeds are cheaper from attitude then direct from nirvana I'll let you do the math


not wholesale.... nirvana seeds are 20% off if you get 5 at a time, so you can get 10 of any strain for close to 220 and they give you freebies and other shit, haven't ordered from them directly in a year or so, the prices might have risen though.


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## althor (Jul 8, 2012)

The issue is basically TGA does the minimal amount of work and then wants top dollar for his product.
Its hard to justify. No wonder he hates feminized seeds, it would require MUCH more work than just leaving a male in the middle of a grow room with a bunch of clones to seed up.


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## TheMan13 (Jul 8, 2012)

_*You all are too funny! I think I'll fit right in 

I am neither Sub nor a troll. I have read threads here forever and decided to join today...

I came across this thread today as I am considering a Dairy Queen grow and the title "TGA Strains Stable?" caught my attention.

After reading through the comments I was glad to hear nothing bad about DQ, but left with the impression some writers may have a ax to grind with Sub.

I am no expert, but I do have some experience and chose to put my two cents in. If I were to experience a hermi, I would look to my growing environment before blaming the breeder of the seed.*_


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## Gamer621 (Jul 8, 2012)

stak said:


> Ain't it a bitch when someone brings logic and common sense into the discussion?


No, It is welcomed.

*Looks left*
*Looks right*
*Looks up*
*Looks down*
*Looks behind*

Nope, No logic or common sense to be found. Just subcool fanbois that keep telling us to look at grow journals of sub's friends.


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## Gamer621 (Jul 8, 2012)

TheMan13 said:


> _*I am no expert, but I do have some experience and chose to put my two cents in. If I were to experience a hermi, I would look to my growing environment before blaming the breeder of the seed.*_


And what pray tell would you do if you and 20 of your buddies with all different growing enviroments, nutes, lights etc etc all had hermie plants from the same breeder? I mean after you of course blamed yourselves.


----------



## bluntmassa1 (Jul 8, 2012)

Jogro said:


> Looking at this comment in the best possible light, I'd agree that since Sub grows, breeds, and presumably selects all his lines in super-soil, all his plants should thrive in that medium.
> 
> To be clear here, the Super-soil is a highly enriched organic medium designed specifically for growing cannabis. Though different strains have *slightly* different needs for optimal growth, this particular mix by design has an abundance of all necessary nutrients, and pretty much any plant "should" do well in that medium.
> 
> But so long as their nutritional needs are met TGA plants should be able to do well in a variety of growing conditions. Having or not having supersoil shouldn't be the "make or break" factor in growing TGA plants (or any plants).


why would it be better in super soil I could see if he took years to stablize the strains in super soil but he changed his recipe for super soil recently so it obviously wasn't the best. soil or hydro shouldn't matter as long as they get everything they need


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 8, 2012)

thats funny why haven't you posted anything in subcools section? if your interested in DQ I smell bullshit I mean you join a site just to stick up for a breeder you haven't even tried. some strains are more prone to herm than others and its not always the growers fault.


TheMan13 said:


> _*You all are too funny! I think I'll fit right in
> 
> I am neither Sub nor a troll. I have read threads here forever and decided to join today...
> 
> ...


----------



## T Ray (Jul 8, 2012)

Capt. Stickyfingers said:


> My Jilly Bean was beautiful and had really nice coloring, lots of dense buds, nice smell, but hermed and was mediocre smoke. Looks can be deceiving. That's why I don't buy strains solely based on pictures and high times covers. Matt knows Sub personally so there is going to be some bias there, and the other dudes get free shit from Sub so there is some bias there too. Might as well tell us what Subs mom thinks of him too. I can tell you out of everything I've grown and smoked myself and smoked from others, TGAs been some of the least potent shit and the herms just turned me off even more.


How many Jilly Beans did you grow out? I'm not saying that every seed is going to be a gem. Like anything, you do have to have some selection and not everything is going to be a keeper. 

And I agree that there is some bias with some of those guys, but theres no denying it's dank. However, Nugbuckets if I remember correctly paid for the majority of his TGA genetics through seeds banks just like everyone else. Including that AOS. Hovering has lab tests also to back up what it is he is growing. Call TGA strains weak if you will, but Hov's lab test results look pretty legit to me. 

For example.....heres Hov's Plushberry thread with lab results.People can say what they want about Plushberry, but if I got a chance to grow something with those profiles/numbers and those looks, but have to sort through a some hermans/nanners, I'd do it every time. 

https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/533035-tga-plushberry-hovering.html

Captain Sticky, I have at least seen some of your grows and know you can grow dank (unlike others who have posted), but I just think you had a bad experience/luck with TGA. 

To each there own. I can only go on my experiences and for me it has been a good one.

T-Ray


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## TheMan13 (Jul 8, 2012)

_*I hear ya Brother, but I stick with my opinion stress is the #1 cause of hermies. *__*That said, many hybrid strains can be temperamental. Cuts are chosen by breeders for their strengths. These strong plants could also carry a trait of heightened selfpreservation leading them to hermi given the right conditions. I guess you have to take the bad with the good, mother nature is just funny that way. It would still be hard to single out TGA for such a transgression.*_


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## althor (Jul 8, 2012)

TheMan13 said:


> _*I hear ya Brother, but I stick with my opinion stress is the #1 cause of hermies. *__*That said, many hybrid strains can be temperamental. Cuts are chosen by breeders for their strengths. These strong plants could also carry a trait of heightened selfpreservation leading them to hermi given the right conditions. I guess you have to take the bad with the good, mother nature is just funny that way. It would still be hard to single out TGA for such a transgression.*_


No, but you could single him out for selling abunch of F1s and calling them strains. Why cant he take the time to f4-f5 some of these strains and get some uniformity out of them? Or, how about he drops the price down to what F1s should be. This is the new fad with commercial breeders. They want to take a father and 25 different clones of dank strains and seed them all up. Slap a name on the bi-product and act like they have done something special with a super dollar price tag. Thats not breeding. That is nothing more than letting nature do its thing and charging big prices for it. 

When I start seeing f5s + out of TGA gear I will start considering him a real breeder. Until that time he is just a guy with some good clones, making bank off other people's work.


----------



## T Ray (Jul 8, 2012)

Gamer621 said:


> No, It is welcomed.
> 
> *Looks left*
> *Looks right*
> ...


Go look at the beginning of TC threads to when he first joined. He was not Subcool's friend til after he grew out TGA. Same with Nug's, same with alot of us. We grew TGA and realized it was dank and Sub found us realizing that we had growing skills. Yes, we are friends with Sub now, but that because we all have the same goal and that to legalize and grow dank. 

Hell I didn't even buy Sub's genetics until after I used his supersoil and it worked so good, I had to thank him by buying some of his genetics. Been sold ever since. Go ahead and take a look, most TGA people that are well respected are because they grow dank and were not TGA/Subcool's friends until after he seen there work. It's not like I just was Subcool's friend right off the bat. I had to get some respect and show my skills first. It took me over 6 months of journaling before I recieved anything to test for TGA and through my good work Sub has rewarded me. 

Go look at my Qush smoke report, you will see I only rated it a 7. I am a no bullshit type guy. Some people really liked it and couldn't believe I only gave it a 7, but it wasn't for me. Qrazy Train had two females didn't really like either. Only ran 2 seeds so I didn't feel I ran enough to give a fair assessment/smoke report, but the two I did weren't for me. 

As I have always said you have to search to find great/elite phenos. If you think everytime you crack a 10 pack your going to find a great/elite pheno, your mistaken. I think finding a really good one is def reasonable to expect, but elites are elites for a reason.

T-Ray


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## Mithrandir420 (Jul 8, 2012)

hovering said:


> Ha! I just grow for my patients and do journals.
> 
> Sorry man. * I have no agenda except for my patients health and well-being (I am a patient too). *
> 
> ...


Yes you do, you're hoping to become one of his testers, if you're not already. If you're already a tester you absolutely have an agenda. 

I do think that Subcool is a pollen chucker (like most breeders these days) and a hypster on the order of PT Barnum, but I am willing to give the gear a go because he has some good reviews, as well as the bad ones. Sp I am running my first TGA gear. Popped 5 plushberry seeds. We'll see what happens but so far (appx 45 days) they look good. Healthy and vigorous.

After looking at the various journals and grow reports I am more of a fan of the people growing the gear (Matt Rize, TCurtus, etc.) than I am of Subcool. And some of the people in his forum are pretty cool, even if they are fanbois.  

I do agree with his stance on femme seeds, though. They are bad for the overall genetic pool.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 8, 2012)

I bought 4 querkle seeds. got 3 females. Beautiful smoke, not the most incredibly potent smoke but damn that shit was still great. Taste, smell, high phenomenal. All turned purple with 68 degrees at night. No hermies. Cloned them all and am flowering them again. Its the end of week 5 and still no hermies. Cloned the querkle again and am gonna run her again. She definetly earned a spot in my garden untill i find something better..... Im looking forward to grow out alot more of his gear. But im gonna go for something that knocks you out with killer potency next. Still would recomeend querkle to anybody who enjoys top notch 10/10 smoke.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 8, 2012)

TheMan13 said:


> _*You all are too funny! I think I'll fit right in
> 
> I am neither Sub nor a troll. I have read threads here forever and decided to join today...
> 
> ...


exactly, my plants only hermed on me once i tried to make them herm, on their own they did not show balls or nanners. i wantto breed with something bullet proof, sadly they were not... besides that 1 vortex and Nirvana's Blue mystic(no herms lol and i tried REALLY HARD to make a few herm) almost anything i put in my "stress Tent" goes herm for something, if it doesn't i'm not doing a good job at testing the clone's dexterity. if it herms, it's offspring will herm.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 8, 2012)

Alot of hermies are due to growers error. Before you bash subcool, bash yourself for being shitty growers.


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## kermit2692 (Jul 8, 2012)

Gamer621 said:


> Sponsored by Mountain Dew Red Alert of course.


mountain dew red alert sucks....you have bad taste


----------



## Jogro (Jul 8, 2012)

T Ray said:


> How many Jilly Beans did you grow out? I'm not saying that every seed is going to be a gem. *Like anything, you do have to have some selection and not everything is going to be a keeper*.


Well, many of the classic "name" strains are stable inbred lines, meaning that pretty much every plant in a pack is going to be substantially similar to every other one, and you shouldn't have to do any selection to find a good plant. They're all "keepers". F1 crosses of truly inbred lines should also all be substantially similar, and again, no selection (or minimal) should be necessary to get a good plant. 

With hybrid strains, good breeders will do multiple generations of selection out to F4 or F5, so that either all the phenos are good, or at worst, there are only a small number you need to pick through to get the best one. A truly "stable" hybrid will only put out 2, or at most 4 phenotypes. The problem is it actually takes a lot of skill as a breeder, plus quite a bit of time and work to get there. That's why there are a lot of "crossers" (ie "pollen chuckers") but not that many true breeders. 

The question here isn't whether or not you can grow lots of plants to find a keeper. The question is, if you're paying $100 per pack for "boutique" seeds, how many plants and how many packs SHOULD you have have to grow out to find a great one? 

If a given "strain" is represented as having a certain scent/flavor, potency, and cannabinoid profile, but you have to grow out literally 10-20 plants to find one that matches the ad copy, isn't that a problem?


----------



## T Ray (Jul 8, 2012)

Jogro said:


> Well, many of the classic "name" strains are stable inbred lines, meaning that pretty much every plant in a pack is going to be substantially similar to every other one, and you shouldn't have to do any selection to find a good plant. They're all "keepers". F1 crosses of truly inbred lines should also all be substantially similar, and again, no selection (or minimal) should be necessary to get a good plant.
> 
> With hybrid strains, good breeders will do multiple generations of selection out to F4 or F5, so that either all the phenos are good, or at worst, there are only a small number you need to pick through to get the best one. A truly "stable" hybrid will only put out 2, or at most 4 phenotypes. The problem is it actually takes a lot of skill as a breeder, plus quite a bit of time and work to get there. That's why there are a lot of "crossers" (ie "pollen chuckers") but not that many true breeders.
> 
> ...



So basically what your saying is that if for example I got a pack of seeds from Shanti, Chimera, Bodhi, that within 10 seeds I will find a "great"/elite strain each time I cracked a pack that matched the description of the elite mother? I'm sorry to say bud, but that is far from the truth. If that was the case then people wouldn't need/seek elite cuts because they could just easily make there own.

I hear what your saying about his strains not matching up with whats advertised, but to be honest I don't think you've grown enough TGA to have that opinion. Nor do I believe that you actually have any facts to your claims. 

I have read many of your well thought out statements and they remind me of Bricktops alot, in that they say a lot to make it appear you know your shit but in the end your a copy and paster without much real experience with the topic at hand. Narcissism is the first thought that comes to mind when reading your posts. You think you are so damn smart. It's the internet and anyone can be a google master.

So tell me Jogro, how many TGA seeds have you cracked and grown out/journal to come to these conclusions you come up with out of thin air? I can prove my results with facts based on journals and experience with TGA...can you?

And since I actually answer the questions that people ask me, I would say that in a 10 pack of TGA that you will get a "good" representation of what is being advertised. Elites are elites because it takes many many beans to find them hiding in the genetic code. You Mr. Knowitall should already know that.

T-Ray


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## hovering (Jul 8, 2012)

Mithrandir420 said:


> Yes you do, you're hoping to become one of his testers, if you're not already. If you're already a tester you absolutely have an agenda.
> 
> I do think that Subcool is a pollen chucker (like most breeders these days) and a hypster on the order of PT Barnum, but I am willing to give the gear a go because he has some good reviews, as well as the bad ones. Sp I am running my first TGA gear. Popped 5 plushberry seeds. We'll see what happens but so far (appx 45 days) they look good. Healthy and vigorous.
> 
> ...



What are you so angry about? You haven't even finished one TGA strain and you are all negative and shit.

That bad energy is gonna fuck up your plants man. Take it easy bro.


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## OGEvilgenius (Jul 8, 2012)

Clankie said:


> Gotta say this is not filling me with confidence towards the Dairy Queen and Chernobyl freebies I have going right now, especially since I'm not particularly interested in keeping them, genetics-wise. While the breeding of polyhybrids can produce a superplant, with desirable characteristics from three or four different powerful strains, it is also likely (often more so) to produce plants that carry one or more undesirable characteristic from these plants. While it is true that plants often herm because of climate-related stress, it is also true that there is a genetic predisposition to do so, and while seed created by an intersex/herm plant will be more likely to carry that disposition, seed created by a herm plant pollinating itself is almost guaranteed to carry the disposition and will likely herm under stress that would normally not induce such a mutation. I'm definitely not saying they have used herms as parent stock in their genetic pool at TGA, but with all these complaints I'm definitely not saying they never have, or that they do not have polyhybrids that have herm prone plants somewhere in their genetic makeup. In addition, one problem with non-stabilized polyhybrids is that they carry a great deal of genetic instability in one generation, with a massive pool of potential genetics, which makes them prone to mutations such as intersex/herm behavior. I have actually yet to have a plant herm on me, but most of what I have grown has been cloned from first gen mothers of Sensi, Serious, MNS, and Next Generation seedstock.
> 
> *edit: *Good lord they use their space queen (romulan x cindy 99) genetics in fucking everything, but that seems to be the common thread running through all of the plants you folks seem to have had herm problems with. Does he have like one set of SQ male plant genetics and then just pollinate everyfuckingthing he can find with it, and then either just call it good or backcross it with the non-SQ parent? I'm not trying to be rude, but that's just lame.


Excellent post... Fem seeds and poly hybrids suffer the same potential issues. That being said, some serious dank can be found as well (and has been). Haze was/is a polyhybrid. It's also probably the best smoke ever created. 

And yeah, he has used his SQ father in a lot of crosses.


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## OGEvilgenius (Jul 8, 2012)

Grojak said:


> He sells his beans for 40 a pack locally, I picked up some beans at a local event (they didn't even check for my paperwork which is shady, I had it though), I know he was making more than $1 a pack there!!


Per seed. Seed =/= pack.

Most of the folks hating here need to understand what they are getting... potentially incredible plants, a lot of recessive genetics (which isn't always good) and a requirement to pheno hunt somewhat.... find the right pheno though and you will never let it go, I have no doubt.

And Sub doesn't breed all his gear in his small personal room. He has a network of guys all over doing tests etc etc. Any time people complain about hermies one has to be careful they absolutely weren't at fault as well. 

My advice to all here? Grow em yourself, see if you like what you find. If not, then you probably have no place to comment. If you've grown them and don't like em, please share, but also understand that 5 seeds is hardly a good basis to judge anything. The stability of most strains is pretty bad given the plant limits most breeders have to work with. It isn't like growing out the carrots you can buy at the nursery which are always the same because they grew millions of plants and spent many years stabilizing them. 

I think sometimes people just get lucky with some breeders gear and unlucky with others and are just way too quick to write them off or promote - one way or the other.


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## OGEvilgenius (Jul 8, 2012)

Barrelhse said:


> I ran a nice Cheesequake pheno for about 18 mos, usually pulled a few bananas off here and there but no real probs. I have a Plushberry at 7 wks, also throwing a few bananas. I don't worry about that if it's just a few, many varieties do it- just pick out the bananas with tweezers and they're fine. I've done several TGA singles and never had a hermie issue, althuogh some of the strains didn't really live up to the propaganda. The only full hermie I ever had was a Critical Sensi Star- beautiful plant, frosted and lemony at 5 wks, then threw out huge clusters of male flowers everywhere so I had to yank it.
> 
> EDIT: I haven't looked for a day or 2, just went down and found a lot more bananas than I'd like on a 52 day Plushberry. Most seemed to be on the buds on just one branch so I took that one off. Too bad, it's just getting some magenta hues that I didn't think would come out on this one. I have another one 2 wks behind this with no bananas yet.


That's the other thing... if it's sprouting some nanners but they are all sterile anyway, who cares?


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## Jogro (Jul 8, 2012)

T Ray said:


> So basically what your saying is that if for example I got a pack of seeds from Shanti, Chimera, Bodhi, that within 10 seeds I will find a "great"/elite strain each time I cracked a pack that matched the description of the elite mother?


Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never used the term "elite strain" and that's not what I'm saying at all.

By definition, "elite" strains don't come in packs (or they wouldn't be "elite". . .duh), or if they do, they only occur with remote frequency. 

I'm saying that if you have to plant many seeds just to get one good plant (not necessarily an "elite" one), that's potentially a problem. 

I'm also saying that if you have to worry about phenotypes every time you buy a pack of seeds then those seeds may not be suitable for small scale growers.

You disagree?




> I'm sorry to say bud, but that is far from the truth. If that was the case then people wouldn't need/seek elite cuts because they could just easily make there own.


See above. 
This is getting off topic, but part of the reason people seek elite cuts is because there is a mystique about it, and obtaining and growing them is sort of a subversive "underground" activity. 




> I hear what your saying about his strains not matching up with whats advertised, but to be honest I don't think you've grown enough TGA to have that opinion. Nor do I believe that you actually have any facts to your claims.


Its amazing how you consistently see things in my posts that aren't there. 

I never stated any "opinion" that TGA seeds don't match the ad copy. I said if that happens, its a problem. (I also said that there are excellent phenotypes to be had). 

If you go back and read through the posts, there are a bunch of posters making claims from first hand experience about less than impressive potency, phenotype variation and hermaphroditism. I didn't claim it, though apparently some are doing so indirectly. 

Again, if you've only got ten seeds in a pack, and some are males, and some go hermie, and the females that remain comprise the less than best phenotypes, there is a real chance that you're not going to realize the strain's potential (ie what you end up with won't live up to the hype). 

On the other hand, there is some chance that all of them will be impressive. Its a gamble, and that's my point. 

The only specific claim I made about TGA seeds at all, was that they are crossed polyhybrids and that they may have a tendency to throw off many different phenotypes.  Neither one of these things is particularly controversial. If you just look at the genetic lineages of the strains, they're all hybrids of multiply hybridized parents, and if you look at TGA's website, Subcool himself describes some of the strains as throwing off a variety of phenotypes. 

You've already said yourself that you may need to pick through a number of TGA plants to find a good one, so it seems to me you don't disagree with this premise, either. 

In TGA's defense, the nature of these hybrids may be such that it simply isn't practical to stabilize the line to the point where you only get a small number of good phenotypes. So phenotype hunting may just be a price you have to pay to take advantage of these lines. 




> I have read many of your well thought out statements and they remind me of Bricktops alot, in that they say a lot to make it appear you know your shit but in the end your a copy and paster without much real experience with the topic at hand. Narcissism is the first thought that comes to mind when reading your posts. You think you are so damn smart. It's the internet and anyone can be a google master.


With due respect, nothing I posted is a "copy and paste". This isn't about me, and the fact that you are resorting to name-calling doesn't reflect well on your or your arguments. 

As to my "experience" I started growing in '94. 

Oh, and I'm not Bricktop, if that's what you're accusing me of. 



> So tell me Jogro, how many TGA seeds have you cracked and grown out/journal to come to these conclusions you come up with out of thin air? I can prove my results with facts based on journals and experience with TGA...can you?


Again, go back and read what I actually wrote, and not what you imagine I wrote. 



> And since I actually answer the questions that people ask me, I would say that in a 10 pack of TGA that you will get a "good" representation of what is being advertised.


Would you concede that its possible that you might not? That's really the issue/question. 

More importantly, since you brought this up, how many packs have you grown to make that statement, and of how many strains?

What types of phenotypic variation have you seen, in what strains, and what level of hermaphroditism? This information would be a lot more useful than the generalization above. 




> Elites are elites because it takes many many beans to find them hiding in the genetic code. You Mr. Knowitall should already know that.


Again, I didn't bring up the topic of elites, you did. 

But since you did, unfortunately, I have to disagree a bit with you here. In some cases what you posted above is true, but it largely depends on which elite cut you're talking about. 

This is now well off topic, but I'd say elites are elites because of two reasons:

a. There is something desirable about the strain/cut in question, enough to make someone want to perpetuate it (typically both potency and flavor), and
b. The strain isn't readily available commercially. 

That's it. 

Note that in many (if not most) cases the reason these strains aren't commercially available is because they're hybrids and simply can't be stabilized into seed producing form. These are typically the sorts of elites that most of the current crop of breeders are hybridizing into new strains. 

In some cases, the elite strain actually WAS once a commercially available strain, just for whatever reason it isn't anymore (eg William's Wonder, Silver Pearl, Afghani-Skunk, etc). 

In some cases, the elite strain is just a unique or outstanding individual phenotype of a commercially available strain (eg Cinderella 99 and the original Cheese probably fall into this category). Presumably this is what you're talking about in your statement above. 

In some cases an elite strain that once was hard to get now *IS* commercially available, and may not really be "elite" anymore (Herijuana is one like that). Williams Wonder occasionally appears commercially too. 

And in some cases the "elite" strain isn't necessarily really any better than stuff that is commercially available, just a combination of scarcity, lore, and the underground nature of cannabis cultivation gives these strains an added mystique.


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## T Ray (Jul 8, 2012)

Bravo, that was quite the novel of explanations, but you still gave the answer that I thought you would. You haven't grown out any TGA and therefore your input is useless.My whole point is you have nothing to really say in this thread that is relevant because you have ZERO experience with TGA to say whether they are stable or not. 





> *Would you concede that its possible that you might not? That's really the issue/question.
> 
> More importantly, since you brought this up, how many packs have you grown to make that statement, and of how many strains?
> 
> What types of phenotypic variation have you seen, in what strains, and what level of hermaphroditism? This information would be a lot more useful than the generalization above. *


And since you asked, in my first post on this thread I said that I have grown around 30 TGA seeds.They are all documented right here on RIU. Feel free to take a look. 

Agree to disagree. To each their own.


T-Ray


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## wheezer (Jul 8, 2012)

I just don't understand why we can't have a thread that asks a simple question, that really only needs a simple answer from someone with experience on the subject, but it always turns into a pissing match. This thread asked about the stability of TGA strains, and there are people commenting that have not grown the gear at all, or very little. There are also people here, that are obviously one sided on the issue for one reason or another. The proofs in the puddin' guys. TGA gear is definitly worth growing IMO, but that's what that is, my opinion. There are great phenos in TGA gear IMO, but that's what that is, my opinion. Most of it is subjective anyway, therefore, not absolute, so not worth arguing over. Stability was the question here, and I don't think there are many here that would disagree, that TGA gear is not worked, stable crosses, but polyhybrids that you do have to pheno hunt in, which is the attraction to some growers. I have grown almost every TGA strain now, and I have hit amazing phenos, packs with all males, hermies in most packs somewhere. That's from experience, not heresay. Honestly though, I've ran ALOT of gear in the past few years, and they are all about the same. You have good and bad in all of em' that I've found. No one has been perfect yet for me.
Settle down guys, take a deep breath, do a bong hit, and relax.....it ain't worth argueing over is it? OH, some of you LIKE to argue....I get it now...


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## T Ray (Jul 8, 2012)

Weezer, 

Point taken. Most of what you said I agree with and I respect your input as I've seen your TGA grows and what your all about. I'm actually watching the TGA you just put at your friends house. Looking forward to the future reports. Good growing. 

T-Ray


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## wheezer (Jul 8, 2012)

T Ray said:


> Weezer,
> 
> Point taken. Most of what you said I agree with and I respect your input as I've seen your TGA grows and what your all about. I'm actually watching the TGA you just put at your friends house. Looking forward to the future reports. Good growing.
> 
> T-Ray


Thanks T got lots of respect for your stuff too...


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## Jogro (Jul 8, 2012)

T Ray said:


> Bravo, that was quite the novel of explanations


Because you misrepresented what I posted. 



> , but you still gave the answer that I thought you would. You haven't grown out any TGA and therefore your input is useless.My whole point is you have nothing to really say in this thread that is relevant because you have ZERO experience with TGA to say whether they are stable or not.


There was no need to ask the question because I explained in my first post why I won't grow these seeds. 

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/543083-tga-strains-stable-6.html#post7682334

I don't need to plant one seed to know they're unstable. EVERYONE, including Subcool himself, yourself, and most of the growers who have grown the plants indicate that you're going to get multiple phenos per pack, and in some cases a wide variety. 

The fundamental question about hermies was thoroughly answered several pages before I made any posts. Most of the posters, yourself included, have described some issues with hermies, some worse than others. YES, there is a good chance you'll see hermies. 

Do I really need to pay $100 and spend three months just to prove what we all agree is true? 

As to the rest of it, I don't remember anyone appointing you the judge of what's "relevant" or "useful". At least a few of the eleven posters who "liked" my comments seem to think I've said something relevant. 

The main reason I came into this thread, by the way, was to comment on seed COST, because someone posted something outright wrong about seed pricing and markup. The rest of it was my perspective on these types of polyhybrid strains/breeders (of which TGA, by the way, is not the only one). 

I'm not a TGA "basher" by any stretch; I just see some potential issues with this type of genetics, and don't think they're for everyone, that's all.


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## Grojak (Jul 8, 2012)

I'll be honest, I had decent luck with Dairy Queen, I got 1 keeper and I have some Deep Purple going right now, but understand when I first became legal, the same day, I came across TGA 5 packs for $40 each, I was just getting back into growing as it was legal how could I not buy them. Later research, and getting 3 different phenos with my 3 DQ girls, I concluded I didn't like this gear because it's unstable in my mind, unstable meaning it's untested lucky dip genetics.

After attending a Subcool seminar, reading this forum and seeing 5 minutes of Weed Nerd and the vast pheno pool in his beans, I concluded I did not want to support TGA because Sub's a major douche, that's just my opinion but sitting around watching a dude headbang and smoke pot in his chair while playing the music a bit too loud to talk over, just lame, again my opinion if you enjoy his show great.


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## kermit2692 (Jul 8, 2012)

haha ya i had that thought too its funny shit.....i swear he thinks hes on a tv show all headbanging and then he cuts the music slowly and throws the band a shout out, starts talking but the music is never down far enough so he has to turn it down some more, i was baked when i watched it and it was def amusing..made me lol...that said gotta give the guy props he has a cult of followers and makes money by smoking pot, he throws some decent info in too though ive only skimmed that one time..kinda envious a bit i must say..plus he might be a bit errogant but he earned it imo, wanna talk douche lets change the subject to greenhouse now that arjan tool HE is a douche lol....disclaimer = this comment is purely derived from views based on "the weed nerd" here nor anywhere else have i claimed to have grown his strains YET nor do i conform to biases based on subcools...cool..


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## NightbirdX (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm pretty sure that Sub wants to leave the variation open so that each person can find a gem of their own. I agree, I think that some of these strains should be locked down some more and bx'd like he did with Apollo or possibly even cubed. But there is dank in there for sure and I will continue to buy his genetics to look for it. Variety is the spice of life. If a breeder only had a couple of strains in his harem, he wouldn't appeal to as many people as he would want to. We are each looking for something different and have different opinions on the varieties we have. some people want it for fun, some are looking for medical relief, some are looking for mental relief. He wants to appeal to as many of those that he can. Nothing wrong with that. 

It sounds like a lot of people don't want to do the selection and I agree that it is a lot of time and work, but you learn so much along the way about your grow, about your plants, about your environment. I think the selection is one of the best parts. I grew Plushberry looking for one plant and I got 2 completely different plants. Same with Jackpot Royale from AKG. I wanted the LVPK dom plant, and in the end I let the LVPK dom plant go and kept the SQ dom pheno. You find some amazing shit. 

That being said I do understand that it can be frustrating when you spend 100 bucks on some seeds and run the whole pack and don't find what you are looking for. It is a time intensive job for sure and definitely disappointing when 2-4 months of work ends up being for naught. I often do wish there were more stable varieties out there. But in a few years you'll see some newer breeders who have taken time to do the selection and start doing F2's and F3's. I think Sub kinda likes it that way. 

Out of my 6 PB's, I had 4 females. 2 SQ dom, 1 SQ leaning hybrid, and 1 BCS dom. Out of those the SQ hybrid was the most stable having no nannering issues, but the yield was low. The BCS dom is a beautiful plant and smells great, but has nanner probs. The 1st SQ dom plant is amazing and throws some beautiful colas, has amazing smells, and crazy resin production, but it is a very slow vegger that autoflowers at any stress, and the yield isn't impressive. The other SQ dom doesn't build nice colas like the other, but has some nice chunky nugs and the same SQ smell of sour candy, and has great resin production, but it throws nanners worse than any of them. I've let go or am in the process of letting them all go except for the BCS dom pheno. It does nanner, but it just yields so well and the smell and resin production are so nice, I've decided to keep her for a little longer at least. 

IME, there is some fire for sure in TGA gear. But you do have to do the selection and spend the time finding them. If that isn't your gig, then you prob wont have a good TGA experience.


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## tip top toker (Jul 9, 2012)

Why do people seem to think that if a plant hermies due to stress it was the fault of the stress and not the genetics. If stress is causing it to hermie then the genetics are crap, hence the hermie.. good genetics should not hermie because you poked your plant a bit.


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## lampworker (Jul 9, 2012)

Everyone has their own experiences and here are mine. I have grown a couple of Subcool's strains for a little while now. Some of my favorite smoke. I have stuff that is deffinately more knock out, for sure, but htat is not what he breeds for. I have popped 5 packs and gotten 2 females out of each and have had a hard time deciding which pheno to keep. I am talking multiple runs of each to even try to decide if one should go or not. I just had my first hermi problem this run and I cant pass the buck here. This heatwave kicked in and my room hit the 90's. I didn't react in time and a week of that and a few nanners popped out. It is a trainwreck hybrid, I know it is sensitive. With all that being said, how can I blame Subcool. The guy is about as open source as you can get. All of his research is online for us to read. There are a ton of testers on here nad everywhere else who give their opinions and share their grows as well. If you do diligent research on his gear, which is actually possible compared to lots of breeders, and still dont like your results, then you must be in the minority of unhappy customers. I am still one of his happier ones. Great hybrids to enjoy. The herb is has a very pleasant buzz that most people I know seem to really like for everything except going to bed. Everytime I spark a cheesequake joint everyone asks what it is with a wow look on their faces. Some of the tastiest smoke ever. Oh well. Be happy with what you grow. If you aren't, grow something else. If you haven't tried Subcool's gear yet, it is worth a try in my opinion. There are lots of breeders out there all with different genetic resources and goals for their program and hybrids. Try lots of stuff and never form your opinion completely on what you get from others.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2012)

Agent orange here and its a hermie!


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

How far along?


hellraizer30 said:


> Agent orange here and its a hermie!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2012)

Capt. Stickyfingers said:


> How far along?


Started at week 5 and now its almost week 8 seems there sterile but there more and more every day


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Started at week 5 and now its almost week 8 seems there sterile but there more and more every day


were there any stress issues?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> were there any stress issues?


no my room is top notch


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2012)

heres a pic.........


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2012)

As you can see theres no nute burn stress! Or any other stress and room is sealed no light leaks!


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## shagalicious (Jul 9, 2012)

Jogro said:


> A pack has ten seeds and retails for what, $100?
> 
> Meanwhile, Sub still has to develop the lines
> Not worth it to me.


i so agree


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## wheezer (Jul 9, 2012)

tip top toker said:


> Why do people seem to think that if a plant hermies due to stress it was the fault of the stress and not the genetics. If stress is causing it to hermie then the genetics are crap, hence the hermie.. good genetics should not hermie because you poked your plant a bit.


bout time somebody said it......


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> View attachment 2246774heres a pic.........





If the nanners are sterile i dont see a big problem with his lines. Just cull them out while your looking for an awesome cut.
To me subs lines are worth it because i know im getting chronic. Alot of these seed company's you never know


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

wheezer said:


> bout time somebody said it......


I'm still learning. relax.


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## tip top toker (Jul 9, 2012)

I grew out a TGA void and it was prone to rot (sub deleted this post insisting it could only be user error and nothing to do with his genetics lol) and the bud which didn't rot was a very average smoke. So the notion of knowing you'll get "chronic" from TGA doesn't ring at all true for me, they're just like the "others" in that it appears it can be a crap shoot.


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## SketchyGrower (Jul 9, 2012)

*sub·par* (s




b-pär




)

​*1. Not measuring up to traditional standards of performance, value, or production.

*​


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> Alot of hermies are due to growers error. Before you bash subcool, bash yourself for being shitty growers.


Big words for a noob. Just went through some of your posts and It seems you don't know very much. Since me and everyone else are such a shitty growers for getting herms from TGA shit, lets see your awesome work.


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## tip top toker (Jul 9, 2012)

Being a shitty grower and sub being a shitty breeder are not mutually exclusive. Just because someone makes errors in their grow does not excuse the fact that the seeds had unstable hermie prone genetics to start with.


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## Quotient (Jul 9, 2012)

So I'll do some research on herm plants. I have 5 tga querkles outdoors, big robust plants, but all 5 males. 2 other guys , with tga seeds from the same disp. all had 5 male out of 5 seeds, indoors.So aside from a nice landscape plant , is there any reason not to pull a suspected herm plant? or is there a remedy?


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## tip top toker (Jul 9, 2012)

Believe people have success with Dutch Masters Reverse


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## Quotient (Jul 9, 2012)

I have 5 tga querkles , outdoors, all are male, (might be hermie, I just started reading here about them)@ friends bought 5 packs of querkle and some other tga stuff, all from the same disp. 15 out of 15 are males, indoor grown.did you let the herms go like they were females? or treat them like a male plant?


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## wheezer (Jul 9, 2012)

OK, So ya know I'm not TGA bashing.....Timewreck s the first 3 and Qrazy Train is the rest. Lookin' pretty dank, and the Qrazy Train pics are 2 different phenos....can you tell which ones are different? haha


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## wheezer (Jul 9, 2012)

BTW, I did find a couple small nanners on one of the QT.


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

wheezer said:


> BTW, I did find a couple small nanners on one of the QT.


Shitty grower alert! Shitty grower alert!  jk


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## althor (Jul 9, 2012)

Quotient said:


> I have 5 tga querkles , outdoors, all are male, (might be hermie, I just started reading here about them)@ friends bought 5 packs of querkle and some other tga stuff, all from the same disp. 15 out of 15 are males, indoor grown.did you let the herms go like they were females? or treat them like a male plant?



While I havent had the hermie issues, this has been my biggest problem. I keep being told I was just unlucky.
2 deep purple = 2 males.
2 querkle = 2 males.
7 plushberry seeds = 5 males.
2 jilly bean = 2 males.

Yes, when it comes to TGA I have been unlucky.

And before anyone says "environment", every other breeder I have gotten close to 70% female ratio.


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## skunkd0c (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> removed


now you mention it, there has been a white van parked opposite my house for days, i think i am being watched


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> now you mention it, there has been a white van parked opposite my house for days, i think i am being watched


Ummmmm............ hahahahahahahhahahahaahahhahahahaha


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## tip top toker (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> removed


Feds do not exist here  And what would they be watching if they did exist? an empty cupboard?  Damn i'm getting worried..

Don't get pissy because people are calling you out on your misunderstanding of cannabis plants.

What has feds and posting pictures and being watched have to do with unstable genetics?


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## skunkd0c (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> Ummmmm............ hahahahahahahhahahahaahahhahahahaha


Summerfag.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

tip top toker said:


> Feds do not exist here  And what would they be watching if they did exist? an empty cupboard?  Damn i'm getting worried..
> 
> Don't get pissy because people are calling you out on your misunderstanding of cannabis plants.


whatever, i still stand by my statement "alot of hermies are due to growers error" I have known that hermies can be genetic, i just wasnt sure if subcool's lines were prone to hermies.
I still will grow his lines and if a nanner pops up i know not to clone that shit. I have read an encyclopedia worth of information on cannabis plants theres a good chance i know just as much as you or more...


----------



## Mithrandir420 (Jul 9, 2012)

hovering said:


> What are you so angry about? You haven't even finished one TGA strain and you are all negative and shit.
> 
> That bad energy is gonna fuck up your plants man. Take it easy bro.


There's no anger or negativity in my post. I merely made a few honest statements, including one that said that the plushberries were doing very well. . Hell I even put a smiley face in there. 

Some of you hippies get your mellow harshed pretty easily.  (<----See. No anger or negativity. Just honesty.)


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

Capt. Stickyfingers said:


> Wannabe grower, scared to post pics because your plants look like shit.


just picture a garden full of querkle in your head at day 40 flower done by a good organic grower, thats what it looks like.


----------



## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> just picture a garden full of querkle in your head done by a good organic grower, thats what it looks like.


Ok I believe you. Really.


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

Capt. Stickyfingers said:


> Ok I believe you. Really.


don't care if you believe me. I have nothing to prove to you.


----------



## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> don't care if you believe me. I have nothing to prove to you.


The proof is in all your started threads. I don't really need any.


----------



## Grojak (Jul 9, 2012)

Funy shit, I'm going to cross a male Deep Purple with Dairy Queen and was thinking of calling it Sub Par  



SketchyGrower said:


> *sub·par*(s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

Capt. Stickyfingers said:


> The proof is in all your started threads. I don't really need any.


exactly, proof is in my threads. go read them you'll see.


----------



## BeaverHuntr (Jul 9, 2012)

I grew out a weird pheno of Jilly Bean.. It grew great smelled like a MJ plant in veg and then in flower the buds produced no smell, I'm talking zero smell. The buds smell like a plastic sandwich bag no scent what so ever they look nice though like the photos of jilly bean buds they just dont have any scenet weirdest thing I have ever had happen in my garden.


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> exactly, proof is in my threads. go read them you'll see.


I did. All I see is a noob asking noob questions. Am I missing something?


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

Capt. Stickyfingers said:


> I did. All I see is a noob asking noob questions. Am I missing something?


yea....... like what kinda noob questions have i been asking?


----------



## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> go fuck yourself. you have nothing to show about your accussations of me being a noob..


Its two clicks to see your started threads, I am not going to go through them and copy and paste to this thread. If anyone is curious about your posts all they have to do is look, just like I did and see you don't know how to dry or cure your buds, when to harvest, couldn't figure out what happened to your plants, ALL IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS.. It's all there. For real, I'm done conversing with you, peace.


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

I learned how to do it by asking those questions. now i know how to do it.


----------



## homebrewer (Jul 9, 2012)

I think at the end of the day, it just depends on the individual grower and their expectations from the seeds they buy. Personally, I'd never pay $10 per seed for wildly variable and unstable genetics, those types of beans can be created at home for free. Others might not mind the 'pheno hunt' and the constant threat of male flowers which is common when dealing with the genetics of pollen-chuckers who refuse to put the work in.


----------



## ink the world (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes, it really boils down to expectations and the individual grower. I'm a caregiver, I have room and time for the hunt so I took on a winter project.

I just ran 3 TGA strains over the winter. Now going into it I knew I was gonna have to pheno hunt . I expected variation w/ Querkle and Plushbery and expected more stability from Apollo because it's a backcross. It's exactly what I got. I got a keeper from each one and a very nice Querkle male that's Urkle dominant.

Most TGA strains are polyhybrids, expecting stability and uniformity from them is misguided. Why expect an apple to be an orange?


----------



## typoerror (Jul 9, 2012)

tga this month, bodhi next month....


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## wheezer (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> removed


WELL, HERE GOES ANOTHER STUPID FUCK ON IGNORE.......I love that button!


----------



## Trulife69 (Jul 9, 2012)

this thread is not going well for sub...sucks for me b/c pretty much everyone is on the tga train where I live and that's about all you can get unless you order seeds in the mail. I know of 2 other growers in town that have had hermie issues with ace of spades,plush berry and kaboom with killer rooms and almost a perfect enviorment.. and then most of you guys on here confirm they are unstable. I dont think the point of this is "all his shit is shit" I believe you can go through the hassel and find a good pheno but what a headache. Why such the hype with his strains or should I say stolen strains haha? And all of you crying a river saying his shit is awesome..I think the thread speaks for itself..after growing out so many plants your bound to stumble upon a keeper but that's not the point..what a headache


----------



## BeaverHuntr (Jul 9, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> this thread is not going well for sub...sucks for me b/c pretty much everyone is on the tga train where I live and that's about all you can get unless you order seeds in the mail. I know of 2 other growers in town that have had hermie issues with ace of spades,plush berry and kaboom with killer rooms and almost a perfect enviorment.. and then most of you guys on here confirm they are unstable. I dont think the point of this is "all his shit is shit" I believe you can go through the hassel and find a good pheno but what a headache. Why such the hype with his strains or should I say stolen strains haha? And all of you crying a river saying his shit is awesome..I think the thread speaks for itself..after growing out so many plants your bound to stumble upon a keeper but that's not the point..what a headache



Still cant figure out why my Jilly Bean looks amazing but has zero smell.


----------



## Trulife69 (Jul 9, 2012)

and to address the point of "majority of hermies are caused by stress" Yea...you can probably hermie any strain if the enviorment isn't ideal but to be in flower and everything is in check and then all of a sudden around week 5 you start throwing naners..that's bullshit..I dont care how you look at it or jot it down on paper..that is crap and is not worth the trouble for any grower


----------



## BeaverHuntr (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> i wish you would call me that in person, you would see this stupid fuck beat your ass.


What if Wheezer is a prize fighter? What would you do then?


----------



## Trulife69 (Jul 9, 2012)

yea beaver thats weird...hopefully she finishes out well and you will get some good smoke..?just have to wait and see


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> and to address the point of "majority of hermies are caused by stress" Yea...you can probably hermie any strain if the enviorment isn't ideal but to be in flower and everything is in check and then all of a sudden around week 5 you start throwing naners..that's bullshit..I dont care how you look at it or jot it down on paper..that is crap and is not worth the trouble for any grower


everybody is reporting the nanners to be sterile though, so even if that happened its not going to pollinate your whole room. Once again some people arnt up to the challenge. also from what i hear not all of his strains throw nanners, its just a few of them... I hear vortex is very stable....


----------



## BeaverHuntr (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> i believe with a name like wheezer, he is not. Also if he was we could settle it in the ring or on the streets. It dont matter..


Jews have not been known to be skilled fighters..


----------



## BeaverHuntr (Jul 9, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> yea beaver thats weird...hopefully she finishes out well and you will get some good smoke..?just have to wait and see


I think I may just make hash out of it. It literally has no smell. Even when you break it up it just smells like plastic lol


----------



## VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO (Jul 9, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> Still cant figure out why my Jilly Bean looks amazing but has zero smell.


 I had 3 jb phenos, the keeper smells like candy, the other 2 don't smell to much. I have 3 vortex phenos, same deal.


----------



## quisqueyano (Jul 9, 2012)

Daalmightyjew: my first person to be ignored... mainly because he knows the internet is serious business. Thanks for contributing buddy.

FWIW, I'm a new, personal grower about 20 days away from my first harvest of a single Vortex plant. I bought a 10 pack of vortex, 10 pack of Jillybean, and got a 10 pack of timewreck from a promo back in November. If they're prone to hermie, I'm sure I'll bring it of them. If I don't, I don't consider that to mean that they aren't. 

So far, this particular Vortex has been stable as a rock even throughout 90-100F temps for 2-3 days in early flowering and my, possibly, overfeeding newb ways. Timewreck is only around day 15-20 or so, so I can't give an opinion on that. I still have 10 JB, 8 TW, and 7 Vortex seeds to go through, so we'll see.

With that said, after reading a bunch of posts from racerboy and gudkarma, as well as way too much of the seed collector's thread, I now feel I don't **need** to try/buy JTR, JC2, or AoS just yet and instead will be trying out Sannie's and e$kobar's gear next as well as mosca's c99bx1.


----------



## homebrewer (Jul 9, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> Why such the hype with his strains or should I say stolen strains haha?


Sub is a good grower who can take a good picture, though his true talent lies in his ability to sell himself and his seeds. Again, if you know what you're getting yourself into by purchasing his beans then it wont be surprising when every plant is a different pheno. However, if one works with a large enough sample size, I promise one could find a good pheno from just about anyone.


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## Trulife69 (Jul 9, 2012)

jew...if Im not mistaken vortex is his most stable strains..But thats why I started this thread b/c my vortex through a few bananas out of no where.. I have 2 vortex phenos..I just couldn't believe it with everything going so good..


----------



## Philosophist (Jul 9, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> Jews have not been known to be skilled fighters..


Israeli Jews are  thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity fighters ......Americans jews are like Mort from Family guy tho.......



FIXD


----------



## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

Philosophist said:


> Israeli Jews are viscous fighters ......Americans jews are like Mort from Family guy tho........


Sorry, I just got a laugh from viscous.  I know you meant vicious. Unless you meant a glutinous, sticky fighter. Lol. What's even funnier is how Mr Jew is a tough guy all of a sudden on top of being a cocky noob.
*viscous*

[vis-kuhs] &#8194; Example Sentences Origin 
*vis·cous*

&#8194; &#8194;[vis-kuhs] Show IPA 
adjective 1. of a glutinous nature or consistency; sticky; thick; adhesive


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> just picture a garden full of querkle in your head at day 40 flower done by a good organic grower, thats what it looks like.


 I had to lol at this one more time. In my head he says.

[video=youtube;C_Kh7nLplWo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo[/video]


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## Philosophist (Jul 9, 2012)

Capt. Stickyfingers said:


> Sorry, I just got a laugh from viscous.  I know you meant vicious. Unless you meant a glutinous, sticky fighter. Lol. What's even funnier is how Mr Jew is a tough guy all of a sudden on top of being a cocky noob.
> *viscous*
> 
> [vis-kuhs] &#8194; Example Sentences Origin
> ...



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA that shit is soooooo funny... viscous fighters....LOL

I must have spell checked in wrong or SOMETHING .... usually by vocab is impregnable!


----------



## Philosophist (Jul 9, 2012)

Philosophist said:


> Israeli Jews are  thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity fighters ......Americans jews are like Mort from Family guy tho.......


FIXD for clarification


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

ok call me mort on the internet that is cool.. My whole name is one giant joke anyways. Anybody who knows me knows i dont act jewish in any ways and am not religious at all. However people that know me know not to fuck with me and i could snap your neck if i wanted to. trust me.


----------



## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> ok call me mort on the internet that is cool.. My whole name is one giant joke anyways. Anybody who knows me knows i dont act jewish in any ways and am not religious at all. However people that know me know not to fuck with me and i could snap your neck if i wanted to. trust me.


For sure bro. I'll just picture that in my head along with your awesome garden. Fuckin karate choppin weed growin extraordinaire. I'm sure you could straight decrapitate me with your viscous punches.


----------



## Clankie (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> ok call me mort on the internet that is cool.. My whole name is one giant joke anyways. Anybody who knows me knows i dont act jewish in any ways and am not religious at all. However people that know me know not to fuck with me and i could snap your neck if i wanted to. trust me.


Things I know about you: You behave on the internet like a 12 year old and you start a bunch of posts talking about how awesome you are at growing and how your shit is without ever posting any pictures. For instance:



Da Almighty Jew said:


> So I grew some of the best top notch shit that is going around right now. It was all organic, tastes and smells delicious. I've been growing for a few years now and this is my first successful crop with some weight that is straight up dank as shit.


With no pictures, of course.

Finally, as far as 


Capt. Stickyfingers said:


> I had to lol at this one more time. In my head he says.


goes, that's clearly because it is the only place his garden exists. Full of existential kush.


----------



## Capt. Stickyfingers (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> removed


You got me. I'm black. Not a white guy in black face. I'm totally really black. For realz dog. And you're a badass neck snapper with a huge cock (in my mom's ass by the way) and an award winning garden. Bravo. My cheeks hurt from picturing your mini kosher all lumpy and shit. Get it? Like a bumpy pickle? Ha! Enough fun, you're ignored now.


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## smoke doubt (Jul 9, 2012)

er........can we all calm down please?I haven't been visiting this site much, but I don't want to be reading this fuckin' shit. meet up and have a toe to toe if you both feel that way


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## Clankie (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> Bravo, you wasted my time by having me argue with a complete idiot. Go document some more of you shit all over the internet. I hope your legal.


Please, allow me to fix your grammar for you.



Da Almighty Jew said:


> Bravo, you wasted my time by having me argue _*like*_ a complete idiot. Go document some more of you*r* shit all over the internet. I hope you*'*r_*e*_ legal.


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

i will have a toe to toe with the 10 people that are up against me in this thread


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

post counts go up.


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## Tom bodett (Jul 9, 2012)




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## shagalicious (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> whatever, i still stand by my statement "alot of hermies are due to growers error" I have known that hermies can be genetic, i just wasnt sure if subcool's lines were prone to hermies.
> I still will grow his lines and if a nanner pops up i know not to clone that shit. I have read an encyclopedia worth of information on cannabis plants theres a good chance i know just as much as you or more...


i've paged a lot of playboys and never fucked a bunny

ed, jorge, mel, greg, and all those other douchey faggots haven't grown a plant or given a piece of original information in 30 fucking years
grow some plants from some stable, inbred lines and you'll understand all the fuss
i suggest g13 haze from mr nice as a starter, as you'll find a keeper in 4 out of 5 females and can't get a banana short of silver poisoning good yield, taste, and buzz from every single plant


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## shagalicious (Jul 9, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> removed


so you're angry, then?


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

shagalicious said:


> i've paged a lot of playboys and never fucked a bunny
> 
> ed, jorge, mel, greg, and all those other douchey faggots haven't grown a plant or given a piece of original information in 30 fucking years
> grow some plants from some stable, inbred lines and you'll understand all the fuss
> i suggest g13 haze from mr nice as a starter, as you'll find a keeper in 4 out of 5 females and can't get a banana short of silver poisoning good yield, taste, and buzz from every single plant


 Next purchase is going to Mr nice black widow, and another pack from sub( either chernoboyle, agent orange, or jillybean. I'll get a 10 pack. clone everything and keep the best flowerer.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 9, 2012)

lol i just got 6/8 of my reputation removed because of my crack on wheezer. lmfao this site is a joke

Now if this site helped me get pussy i would be upset, but since its run by a bunch of ******. i could care less. Get Banned, Make a New Name. Blah blah.


----------



## bluntmassa1 (Jul 9, 2012)

ow now he can snap your neck watch out for this one do you realize you sound like a fucking clown how old are you?


Da Almighty Jew said:


> ok call me mort on the internet that is cool.. My whole name is one giant joke anyways. Anybody who knows me knows i dont act jewish in any ways and am not religious at all. However people that know me know not to fuck with me and i could snap your neck if i wanted to. trust me.


----------



## Tom bodett (Jul 9, 2012)




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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 9, 2012)

holy shit rofl, redneck computers! soon they will have facebook!


----------



## wheezer (Jul 9, 2012)

well, it looks like the kids parents put him to bed for the night...last post 6:53 PM . Just enough time to brush his teeth,and say his prayers before 7 oclock bedtime. The ignore thingy works really well for idiots like that, you guys should try it more.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 10, 2012)

wheezer said:


> well, it looks like the kids parents put him to bed for the night...last post 6:53 PM . Just enough time to brush his teeth,and say his prayers before 7 oclock bedtime. The ignore thingy works really well for idiots like that, you guys should try it more.


So you teamed up with Rollitup and told him to take my rep away.


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 10, 2012)

shagalicious said:


> i've paged a lot of playboys and never fucked a bunny
> 
> ed, jorge, mel, greg, and all those other douchey faggots haven't grown a plant or given a piece of original information in 30 fucking years
> grow some plants from some stable, inbred lines and you'll understand all the fuss
> i suggest g13 haze from mr nice as a starter, as you'll find a keeper in 4 out of 5 females and can't get a banana short of silver poisoning good yield, taste, and buzz from every single plant


well i have fucked a few of those bunnies my friend


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 10, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> So you teamed up with Rollitup and told him to take my rep away.


You deserved to have rep taken! Thanks for playing


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 10, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> So you teamed up with Rollitup and told him to take my rep away.









Perhaps if you ask nicely, "they" will give it back ?


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 10, 2012)

quit your bitching my rep got ganked too you don't see me crying the blues I don't really know why but fuck it


Da Almighty Jew said:


> So you teamed up with Rollitup and told him to take my rep away.


----------



## althor (Jul 10, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> well i have fucked a few of those bunnies my friend



Pictures or it never happened!


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## SketchyGrower (Jul 10, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> in the seed collectors thread, the last 10 pages or so, i have seen a couple of pix of his plushberry that had massive balls and pistils all over it..
> not just one or two random balls either but rather full blown hermie..


this one?


----------



## BeaverHuntr (Jul 10, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> ok call me mort on the internet that is cool.. My whole name is one giant joke anyways. Anybody who knows me knows i dont act jewish in any ways and am not religious at all. However people that know me know not to fuck with me and i could snap your neck if i wanted to. trust me.


DO your friends call you "heeb?"


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## nattybongo (Jul 10, 2012)

This thread is gold. Keep it up...


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## Philosophist (Jul 10, 2012)

da almighty jew said:


> well i have fucked a few of those bunnies my friend



loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolz


----------



## grandaddydank (Jul 10, 2012)

tip top toker said:


> Why do people seem to think that if a plant hermies due to stress it was the fault of the stress and not the genetics. If stress is causing it to hermie then the genetics are crap, hence the hermie.. good genetics should not hermie because you poked your plant a bit.


True indeed. outside of your lights being turned off, power brown outs, idiots taking "care" of your plants while ur on vacation, its pretty hard to run into actual hermies using regular seed stock. a friend did have a feminized Cannatonic go hermie everywhere, out and inside buds, on nodes, everywhere. But according to the source, this particular stock (not direct from Resin) was all hermie on "purpose", so guy could use reverse on all the S2 seed. Which is ridiculous, but off topic. TGA's stock is clouted as hermie free, but your lights go off for 24 hours its not going to matter what strain or breeder you used. Ya know.

The Smoking Man.

-

Lets all try and get along. Life is short.


----------



## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 10, 2012)

its funny how people here bag on nirvana and talk shit about them, but their regs seeds are less likely to herm than some of Subcools, g13 labs, reserva privada or Dutch passion.... those breeders deserve a thread too. maybe more variation (in some cases, similar levels of variation) but its tough to herm their genetics, since they use alot of shanti's f2's, sensi's f2's and homegrown fantaseeds f2's.


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## homebrewer (Jul 10, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> its funny how people here bag on nirvana and talk shit about them, but their regs seeds are less likely to herm than some of Subcools, g13 labs, reserva privada or Dutch passion.... those breeders deserve a thread too. maybe more variation (in some cases, similar levels of variation) but its tough to herm their genetics, since they use alot of shanti's f2's, sensi's f2's and homegrown fantaseeds f2's.


Ten years ago, Nirvana Seeds used to be $10 per pack and before I knew how to clone, Nirvana was my go to for beans. I grew out their Afghani, Bid bud, Pure power plant, Northern lights, bluemystic, Top 44, Chrystal, Skunk #1, and their mixed pack and between all those different phenos in each of those packs, not one of them hermied.

Breeders are quick to blames a grower's environment in an attempt to cover their own rear but as a young grower, I was probably providing the same less-than-optimal environment as any other beginner. 

Hermies do happen but as long as your room is dark enough to induce flowering and you know how to operate a light timer, the presence of male flowers on a female plant is all on the 'breeder' (hacker, chucker, seed producer, etc).


----------



## T Ray (Jul 11, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Breeders are quick to blames a grower's environment in an attempt to cover their own rear but as a young grower, I was probably providing the same less-than-optimal environment as any other beginner.
> 
> Hermies do happen but as long as your room is dark enough to induce flowering and you know how to operate a light timer, the presence of male flowers on a female plant is all on the 'breeder' (hacker, chucker, seed producer, etc).



Hate to have to jump back in this discussion, but your conclusions about hermie's is laughable. Homebrewer I'll ask you this question as well....how many TGA seeds have you popped/journaled to have any input as to whether TGA is stable or not? 


And 



> Hermies do happen but as long as your room is dark enough to induce flowering and you know how to operate a light timer, the presence of male flowers on a female plant is all on the 'breeder' (hacker, chucker, seed producer, etc).


This is what made me have to post in the first place. That is about as far from the truth as possible. Please provide FACTS to prove this. 

I can provide some the other way. 

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227405

And this quote is from Shantibaba himself.

"So it is not always easy to help unless one is willing to let me know the circumstances and timing of male flowers on females. It is a natural occurence at the end of the life cycle for the plant to try and seed itself as a safeguard for the following year in seed form"

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=236035&page=3

WOW! Male flowers are a natural occurence at the end of the life cycle?....that's crazy talk according to Homebrewers theory. 

Read through those threads and tell me again that no one has hermie problems with MNS/top breeder's seeds. In fact alot of the stuff I have been reading about MNS has been showing herm's lately. 

Now don't get me wrong, I would still grow MNS and know it's dank, but saying "as long as your room is dark enough to induce flowering and you know how to operate a light timer, the presence of male flowers on a female plant is all on the 'breeder' (hacker, chucker, seed producer, etc)." is highly laughable. 

Are you calling Shantibaba/MNS all of those things you mentioned above? B/c people are experiencing herm's/male flowers in large volumes (even in veg) as of late with his gear.

And don't blame it on growers error either, b/c you already said that's just an excuse made up by the breeder "in an attempt to cover their own rear".


T-Ray


----------



## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2012)

T Ray said:


> This is what made me have to post in the first place. That is about as far from the truth as possible. Please provide FACTS to prove this.


My 'facts' come from the last 11 years that I've spent in this hobby and the hundred+ strains I've grown which were either bred by myself or from commercial seed producers. If you happen to have access to a time machine, hop in and I'll show you what I'm talking about.



> I can provide some the other way.
> 
> http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227405
> 
> ...


Male flowers (aka pollen sacks) are _a lot_ different than male stamen (nanners) and again, male flowers on a female plant at any time during the growing process is unacceptable. Now male flowers at day 80 on a 60 day strain is to be expected, I believe Soma creates his fem seeds that way. 



> Read through those threads and tell me again that no one has hermie problems with MNS/top breeder's seeds. In fact alot of the stuff I have been reading about MNS has been showing herm's lately.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, I would still grow MNS and know it's dank, but saying "as long as your room is dark enough to induce flowering and you know how to operate a light timer, the presence of male flowers on a female plant is all on the 'breeder' (hacker, chucker, seed producer, etc)." is highly laughable.
> 
> ...


If MNS is having reports of hermies as of late, then that's on him and his recent run of seeds. Did you notice how Shanti offered to correct the issue with presumably more beans? That's good service, IMO. 

Just to clarify though, your argument is that because MNS has had some hermie reports as of recent that it's ok for TGA to have them too? News flash: hermies are never OK from any breeder/hacker/chucker who charge $ for their beans.


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## T Ray (Jul 11, 2012)

No my argument is that every breeder runs into problems with hermies. Some people are happy and some people are pissed. It happens with all genetics and is inevitable. And like I said these people weren't getting flowers from letting a 60 day strain go 80 days. They were getting hermies in veg and in early flower from MNS.

I did however notice that you failed to answer my questions. Here I'll number them so you can't miss them.

1. How many TGA seeds have you run to get into the discussion of whether or not they are stable? 

2. You said this about breeders


> *as long as your room is dark enough to induce flowering and you know how to operate a light timer, the presence of male flowers on a female plant is all on the 'breeder' (hacker, chucker, seed producer, etc).*


 Shanti is having these problems and I have shown you sources of it. Are you calling Shantibaba/MNS all of those things you mentioned above? (Yes he did say he would take care of the problem, but the fact still remains that it WAS/IS a problem and WAS/IS happening.) And based on your quote, it shouldn't matter if he is rectifying it or not.


T-Ray


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## grandaddydank (Jul 11, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> its funny how people here bag on nirvana and talk shit about them, but their regs seeds are less likely to herm than some of Subcools, g13 labs, reserva privada or Dutch passion.... those breeders deserve a thread too. maybe more variation (in some cases, similar levels of variation) but its tough to herm their genetics, since they use alot of shanti's f2's, sensi's f2's and homegrown fantaseeds f2's.


well, I agree..... to a point. every nirvana pack we come into contact with is weaker that any of our control strains here health wise, and one ice pack was 1 out of 10 for healthy seedlings. another NL pack (13 years old; stored wrong) didnt even germinate. the other 13 year old dutch passion pack (also stored wrong) put out a pure WW mother. You are right, the F2s are all based on other bank's genetics, but I wont ever run Nirvana gear again. Its what I call a supreme waste of time and effort, and puts you at greater risk when their weaker F2s fail miserably on you. Then again, my friends RP Headband clones were monsters, but totally androgynous (hermie). I guess if you are happy with F2s, its ok. We dabble in a little breeding and cloning, so typically weaker strains get culled very quickly.

The Smoking Man

-

Lets all try and get along. Life is short.


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## grandaddydank (Jul 11, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> subcool doesn't say his genetics are herm free, he admitted Jillybean/Plushberry(BCS strains) herm and even said one of his strain he was going to release had to e cancelled because of hermaphroditic traits(black dahlia) and that was years ago( you can only blame yourself if you do not adequately research before a purchase). When he breeds i can only guess that he releases stuff that is dank enough to outweigh the negatives of the strain. the fact that he tests his gear and gives out test gear to growers shows his business opperates with some quality control. but yea, fuck subcool, fuck his genetics, i can do better yadda yadda yadda.


Agreed. Every time I have seen him discuss his genetics, he adamantly pushes the "I cull all hermies" bit, and I know some of his strains develop male stigmas on females (Jtr, Jql). Im not saying his genetics dont have hermie problems, I'm saying thats how they rep their strains. In his defense as well, as you said, Subcool's black dahlia wasnt ever released, as you said, because of the hermie problem. But trust me Im not defending his genetics. Candy pastel colored hacks arent my favorite, regardless of their taste. He must run the same Bros Grimm strains in every cross, and although we do have A-13 x Vx cuts, thats as far as our commitment to TGA gear goes. 

I've seen his pollen making videos, and I honestly fell off my chair laughing. Nowhere in nature does a big bearded hippie pop up out of nowhere and put a choke hold on the males, shaking them around until they cant stand up on their own. Pollen is passed naturally, without any violence. Paint it on at least. Paying out 16 bucks a seed, 75 a 5 pack, the genetics better be damn perfect, created in a damn lab grade grow room with nitrile gloves pollen masks and hairnets. Not some shit anyone could pull in a small closet. Ya know.

Preaching to the choir, but Cannabis is hermie in the first place. Growing isn't rocket science, but it's not easy. If its easy you're not working hard enough IMO. We have always maintained low stress rooms, and have a relatively high pure female to male ratio, outside of some recent RP and Resin gear going herm on us, we typically do not run into herms at all. Took some time to get things in order, but if you eliminate stress factors entirely, you will have less hermies. And yes, research is of course very important, before purchasing genetics. Like I said no argument here, I personally don't even purchase genetics currently, unless some Bodhi or GGG gear gets restocked. Got our winners right here working hard.

The Smoking Man

-

Lets all try and get along. Life is Short.


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## BA142 (Jul 11, 2012)

I have 3 different Ripped Bubba phenos. One of them has a few nanners and the other two don't have any. Heading into week 8 of flower....

I'm not stressing over a few nanners


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## grandaddydank (Jul 11, 2012)

BA142 said:


> I have 3 different Ripped Bubba phenos. One of them has a few nanners and the other two don't have any. Heading into week 8 of flower....
> 
> I'm not stressing over a few nanners


hey an actual report! are you keeping the hermed Bubba? maybe set it aside and do a selfed run for seed? We run selfed seeds in a separate area when available (current - Pp x Sd S1s). Never tried the TGA Bubba. I believe he uses some Jacks Qleaner or JTR in the Ripped Bubba, along with space queen I think. 

The Smoking Man

-

Lets all try and get along. Life is short.


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2012)

T Ray said:


> No my argument is that every breeder runs into problems with hermies.
> 
> T-Ray


First of all, you're using the term 'breeder' _very_ loosely here. I've looked at your post history and while you do grow some nice plants, this issue seems to be a personal one for you for whatever reason. Crossing f1 crosses is not 'breeding', especially when the f1 parents are polyhybrids to begin with.

This is what you asked Gamer621:



T Ray said:


> How many TGA seeds have you personally grown out chief?
> T-Ray


This is what you asked Captstickyfingers:


T Ray said:


> How many Jilly Beans did you grow out?
> T-Ray


This is what you asked Jogro:



T Ray said:


> So tell me Jogro, how many TGA seeds have you cracked and grown out/journal to come to these conclusions you come up with out of thin air?
> T-Ray


And this is what you're asking of me:



T Ray said:


> 1. How many TGA seeds have you run to get into the discussion of whether or not they are stable?
> 
> T-Ray


Does _anyone_ actually need to grow out F1 polyhybrid crosses of crosses to know if they're going to be stable or not? Have you ever done any pollen-chucking yourself to know what 'stable' actually means? _Stable_ can mean 'uniform' and it can also mean 'not likely to throw male flowers (pollen sacks)'. Are the beans TGA sells uniform? They're uniformly not uniform. Are you asking me if they're likely to throw male flowers? I think you're in the right thread if you're looking for an answer to that question. 




T Ray said:


> 2. You said this about breeders Shanti is having these problems and I have shown you sources of it. Are you calling Shantibaba/MNS all of those things you mentioned above? (Yes he did say he would take care of the problem, but the fact still remains that it WAS/IS a problem and WAS/IS happening.) And based on your quote, it shouldn't matter if he is rectifying it or not.
> 
> T-Ray


Shanti is the creator of some legendary strains and the difference between your preferred seed producer and shanti is that I'd actually give Shanti some business. It's nothing personal or course, just a preference for supporting real breeders.



EDIT: I want to be clear here because I feel like this is personal for you. I'm not knocking the potential quality of pollen-chucked genetics, they can be excellent. It's simply about knowing what you're getting yourself into when purchasing said genetics. 

You may not agree but threads like this are very helpful to growers and can make people aware of the potential pitfalls of certain 'breeding' methods. If someone buys TGA beans expecting them to be as stable and as uniform as stress-tested, highly-selected F4 _strains_, how pissed would they be if one male flower seeded an entire garden of medicine which no one told them to look out for?


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## T Ray (Jul 11, 2012)

You still never answered me! How many TGA beans have you grown out personally HB? And yes, I am asking the same question to anyone who comes in a thread about something that they have no experience with. 

The reason I ask is because how on earth could you possibly know something about a seed company if you have never even cracked a bean? 

If you haven't noticed on this thread the pattern seems to be that majority of people who hate on TGA or have shitty things to say about Subcool have never grown out one of their/his beans and that is my problem. 

If you noticed the people who have experience with TGA that are contributing in a negative fashion I have not had one problem with (other than asking Captain Sticky how many beans he grew cuz I read his posts and know he mostly gets single seeds). It's people like you who spout shit off just because they "just know" or they heard it from Billy's uncle's brothers cousin. 

I don't have a personal problem with you or anyone else, but it amazes me the amount of people who come into a thread about TGA being stable and chime in when they haven't even grown one plant from them. 

T-Ray


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## Grojak (Jul 11, 2012)

T Ray said:


> You still never answered me! How many TGA beans have you grown out personally HB? And yes, I am asking the same question to anyone who comes in a thread about something that they have no experience with.
> 
> The reason I ask is because how on earth could you possibly know something about a seed company if you have never even cracked a bean?
> 
> ...


This is why I'm done buying TGA, if only I could get rid of my Spacedawg and Chrnobyl packs.

Personally I don't like Sub, not as a person he has never called me a douche, but I have seen him be a dick to others on his forum which seemed unnecessary and have read multiple reports about very poor customer service or just plain ignoring folks when they report to him about seed issues. Also I've met him and just don't like the aura he gives off, this is my opinion of course but he comes across like "johnny" in Karate Kid, like his shit don't stink and he's threatened by the underdog (in this case we'll call him Alphakronic). I saw somewhere where he was accusing a breeder of stealing his genetics and calling them his.... HELLO this is what Sub is all about.

Let me clarify in the above when I say TGA I mean Sub, I've met several members of TGA and other than sub I only have issues with Robert whom I'm came across multiple times... all I can say about that is, if you're the sales rep for a company you should have people skills, just saying. TGA is a family, breeders, test growers, patients. I was gifted dank by a TGA associate who had a Auto Blackberry x Diesel I believe that was cherished for it's quick outdoor time but was also dank, but more so it's the man behind the strain that allows me to not bash TGA as a whole, there are some awesome guys associated with the TGA logo.


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## wheezer (Jul 11, 2012)

uuuuuuugh....I thought we finished this arguement 5 pages ago?!?!?. hahahahaha man...


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## Grojak (Jul 11, 2012)

wheezer said:


> uuuuuuugh....I thought we finished this arguement 5 pages ago?!?!?. hahahahaha man...



2,717 posts and you haven't figured out this argument will repost it's self ever week or 2?


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2012)

T Ray said:


> The reason I ask is because how on earth could you possibly know something about a seed company if you have never even cracked a bean?


You do know that your preferred seed producer had/has a youtube show, right? I quit watching after he took _extreme_ offense to people pointing out that his 'breeding notes' were actually just breeding articles that DJ short had written. I believe subby actually called someone an 'ass cunt' in the rant video that followed. 

I also have internet access and am a member at multiple forums which allows me to do research to '_know something about a seed company_' before I'd give them my business. 



> If you haven't noticed on this thread the pattern seems to be that majority of people who hate on TGA or have shitty things to say about Subcool have never grown out one of their/his beans and that is my problem.


Look, you seem to want to continue this dialog like I have some axe to grind with the company at hand here which simply isn't the case. I couldn't care less about what beans anyone chooses to buy. There are breeders and chuckers and you're free to support whoever you'd like. Cheers!

Oh, and to finally answer your question, I do have some TGA genetics in my room right now. I'll name the linage, lets see if you can guess what I have:

(SSSC (Nevil's) X NL5 X Pluton X Purple Haze X Jack) x (Romulan X Cindy 99) x Deep Psychosis. Any idea how he included all that worked landrace into this cross ?


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## wheezer (Jul 11, 2012)

Grojak said:


> 2,717 posts and you haven't figured out this argument will repost it's self ever week or 2?


 I guess I'm just sloooooww..


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 11, 2012)

tga strains arent stable...lol from wat i know and have seen tga is poly-hybrid trash.


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## Trulife69 (Jul 11, 2012)

T Ray your saying people are just coming on this thread to bash sub..Have you read from page one? Seems to be a lot of people like me having issues with subs shit..
Sub might as well just say "you'll get lots of variations,Good Luck"
I'm not into it...Homebrewer is right..How shitty is it to start out growing and getting subs seeds and have no idea they are unstable...then all of a sudden your throwing naners and growing seeds in all your plants..People need to know that instead of just watching weed nerd looking at sub's little pink glasses shaking his goatee to butt rock..You are led to believe his strains are dank and incredible but in fact not something a new grower wants to mess with..sounds like you need to dedicate time and pop a lot of seeds of just one strain of his to find something stable..F*ck that


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## Budologist420 (Jul 11, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> You may not agree but threads like this are very helpful to growers and can make people aware of the potential pitfalls of certain 'breeding' methods. If someone buys TGA beans expecting them to be as stable and as uniform as stress-tested, highly-selected F4 _strains_, how pissed would they be if one male flower seeded an entire garden of medicine which no one told them to look out for?


I agree 100% but some of these people that are bashing sub and his genetics seem to have had a long personal issue against him and his genetics. (i've personally been reading their post's for a few years so just sayin)

If you don't want to roll the dice of pheno variation then dont, get some nice uniform seeds from mr. nice and we can all smoke together at the end 

I personally think its fun to search through different phenos and find amazing cuts which people have done, they're out there, check out hovering's lab tested, very well documented grows as well as nugbuckets, ocanabis, konagrows (from youtube), the list goes on.

I'm not arguing for sub's cause I'm just sayin in my eyes as a connoisseur, its worth it for me to search out elite phenos, and discard the undesirables.

But for people who are buying seeds from TGA and thinking that they are uniform, similar, the biology term I think would be "cubed", then they are not, they are all gonna be different, {EDIT in hoverings thread of Spacedawg you can see how uniform they are here https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/532607-tga-spacedawg-hovering-6.html} and i see how a lot of people can be mad about that.

Like I said, for people like me, thats the fun in it, being able to purchase poly hybrids of tons of awesome strains, and then growin these plants out and documenting and finding the phenos or traits that i want. 

peace.
-Bud

and PS one more thing homebrewer, the thing you said about one male flower pollinating an entire crop doesnt sound very logical? thats all it takes is one male flower to seed a whole crop?????


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2012)

Budologist420 said:


> and PS one more thing homebrewer, the thing you said about one male flower pollinating an entire crop doesnt sound very logical? thats all it takes is one male flower to seed a whole crop?????


One male flower wont _ruin_ a crop but it could be enough to produce 500-1000 seeds (personally I have a lot of airflow in my room). Depending on your scale, that's either enough to ruin some plants or just constantly clog your grinder. Patients don't like dealing with that. I'm not saying hermies are a guarantee from anyone (well maybe Dutch Passion), it's just something smart growers look out for given the practices of their favorite breeder.


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## typoerror (Jul 11, 2012)

hmm. my last grow i had a hermie pop out 4 pollen sacks. they all went unnoticed. when i chopped, i had 12 beautiful seeds. 3 fans blowing inside a 3x3 tent and i only got 12 seeds from two plants. the male flowers you speak of must have 6 pounds of pollen!


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 11, 2012)

I just grew out 12 beautiful querkle plants over the past few monthes and none of them hermied on me. Damn you Sub..  Querkle is a strain that has 2 distinct phenos. I guess thats too much work for some of you lazy turds.


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## althor (Jul 11, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> I just grew out 12 beautiful querkle plants over the past few monthes and none of them hermied on me. Damn you Sub..  Querkle is a strain that has 2 distinct phenos. I guess thats too much work for some of you lazy turds.


 I really looked forward to a querkle grow and picked up 2 from pick and mix hoping for 50/50 male/female ratio. Unfortunately both were males. I have a long list of things already but at some point I would like to pick up a larger pack and try it out.


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## BA142 (Jul 11, 2012)

grandaddydank said:


> hey an actual report! are you keeping the hermed Bubba? maybe set it aside and do a selfed run for seed? We run selfed seeds in a separate area when available (current - Pp x Sd S1s). Never tried the TGA Bubba. I believe he uses some Jacks Qleaner or JTR in the Ripped Bubba, along with space queen I think.
> 
> The Smoking Man
> 
> ...


Well these are my first runs of the RB from seed so I'll have to sample them then I'll decide what to keep and what not to keep. The pheno with the 4-5 nanners looks pretty good but the other two look really nice. One is a more Bubba dominant pheno while the other is a more JTR dominant pheno. Both are EXTREMELY frosty. The Bubba dominant has almost zero stretch while the JTR dominant stretches a bit more obviously...

I don't get all the Subcool hate. You buy a pack of seeds. You grow them out. You select a pheno that is stable and appeals to the high/medical effects you desire....it takes WORK. You can't just pop 1 bean and find a keeper. Cannabis NATURALLY hermies to reproduce itself. You can't really breed that out....


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2012)

typoerror said:


> hmm. my last grow i had a hermie pop out 4 pollen sacks. they all went unnoticed. when i chopped, i had 12 beautiful seeds. 3 fans blowing inside a 3x3 tent and i only got 12 seeds from two plants. the male flowers you speak of must have 6 pounds of pollen!


When did your flowers open? Did you give those seeds 5 weeks to fully develop? Male flowers are more of an issue for those of us who are perpetual.


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## Jar Man (Jul 11, 2012)

Sorry, I just don't believe TGA is as bad as many of you on here claim. Most of you seem to go overboard with too much emotional bent that disses your suggestions. So how did Sub get where he is if he's so much half baked BS? I've seen super stable Hindu Kush have variations that range more than most would expect. In the old school days before all the hybrids were heard of it was a given that seeds from a bag of Lumbo or Hawaiian would display a considerable range in the plants. In fact I've yet to see a stable strain that would fit the apparent expectations of most of these posters. The few naners I get from time to time don't ever riddle my entire grow with seeds. Evidently y'all are either full of it, are exagerating or don't know how to grow. In fact I like an occasional naner that's short the male chomosome to produce a few female seeds for me (I save the pollen for the next crop so seeds have time to develop). Those seeds don't typically replicate anything more than the same degree of nanerism, a few male flowers that really pose no problem to my grow.
I'm running some Qrazy Train right now and having zero problems, and my female ratio was well within an acceptable range of 60%.


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## JJFOURTWENTY (Jul 11, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> How shitty is it to start out growing and getting subs seeds and have no idea they are unstable...then all of a sudden your throwing naners and growing seeds in all your plants..People need to know that instead of just watching weed nerd looking at sub's little pink glasses shaking his goatee to butt rock.


^^lol... that's sig worthy!

Subtool's penchant for editing posts and terrible classic & modern corporate radio rock knows no bounds.


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## typoerror (Jul 11, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> When did your flowers open? Did you give those seeds 5 weeks to fully develop? Male flowers are more of an issue for those of us who are perpetual.


they are fully formed. big and tiger striped. 

what do you mean by "Male flowers are more of an issue for those of us who are perpetual."? or are you confusing perpetual with elite?


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## homebrewer (Jul 11, 2012)

typoerror said:


> they are fully formed. big and tiger striped.
> 
> what do you mean by "Male flowers are more of an issue for those of us who are perpetual."? or are you confusing perpetual with elite?


I think my statement was pretty clear. You either don't know what perpetual means or don't know that seeds take a few weeks to develop into something damaging.


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## tip top toker (Jul 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> Sorry, I just don't believe TGA is as bad as many of you on here claim. Most of you seem to go overboard with too much emotional bent that disses your suggestions. So how did Sub get where he is if he's so much half baked BS?


So by this argument we should all be sat here arguing that Aarjan truly is the king of cannabis right? I mean how did he get where he is today? He must be a super tallented breeder. No, like with sub, he is an advertiser, and like sub, a good one.


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## grandaddydank (Jul 12, 2012)

BA142 said:


> Well these are my first runs of the RB from seed so I'll have to sample them then I'll decide what to keep and what not to keep. The pheno with the 4-5 nanners looks pretty good but the other two look really nice. One is a more Bubba dominant pheno while the other is a more JTR dominant pheno. Both are EXTREMELY frosty. The Bubba dominant has almost zero stretch while the JTR dominant stretches a bit more obviously...
> 
> I don't get all the Subcool hate. You buy a pack of seeds. You grow them out. You select a pheno that is stable and appeals to the high/medical effects you desire....it takes WORK. You can't just pop 1 bean and find a keeper. Cannabis NATURALLY hermies to reproduce itself. You can't really breed that out....


right on, and yea I don't hate on sub really, I just dont want to pay his prices, especially since I can reproduce the same breeding facility myself with my camp. good luck with the harvest, I am curious to the end results, BK fiend here.

The Smoking Man

-

Lets all try and get along. Life is short.


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## ZenOne (Jul 12, 2012)

it would be interesting for subcool to chime in and tell us his thoughts on all these hermi beans....


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## grandaddydank (Jul 12, 2012)

It's always seemed to me that Sub is only a member of TGA, not the primary breeder or grower at all. If you watch the school of dank vids, or any of his growing "tips" clips, hes usually asking Dioxide for help, which leads me to believe Dioxide is really the one running the grows. No offense meant to Sub or Sub lovers, but I have to agree, he is a business man primarily, just like Arjan, Ben, Eddie, many others. We have tried to become test growers for TGA gear with no response from TGA, and I personally dislike Sub's negativity sometimes on his clips or posts. A shame, we've had to clone clones of our Ap x Vx after our extension room was attacked by bears. 

Also, I do know Mosca keeps a good rep for the most part, and they do carry C99 genetics among others. If you are a Bros Grimm diehard, and want to avoid TGA gear, Mosca's C99 BX-1 is supposedly pretty decent. I have yet to experience their genetics however.

The Smoking Man

-

Lets all try and get along. Life is short.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 12, 2012)

I wonder did hermies showed during testing because there is alot of hermies with multiple strains mainy the new releases.


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## shagalicious (Jul 12, 2012)

grandaddydank said:


> It's always seemed to me that Sub is only a member of TGA, not the primary breeder or grower at all. If you watch the school of dank vids, or any of his growing "tips" clips, hes usually asking Dioxide for help, which leads me to believe Dioxide is really the one running the grows. No offense meant to Sub or Sub lovers, but I have to agree, he is a business man primarily, just like Arjan, Ben, Eddie, many others. We have tried to become test growers for TGA gear with no response from TGA, and I personally dislike Sub's negativity sometimes on his clips or posts. A shame, we've had to clone clones of our Ap x Vx after our extension room was attacked by bears.
> 
> Also, I do know Mosca keeps a good rep for the most part, and they do carry C99 genetics among others. If you are a Bros Grimm diehard, and want to avoid TGA gear, Mosca's C99 BX-1 is supposedly pretty decent. I have yet to experience their genetics however.
> 
> ...


what board is dioxide on?

what i saw of the school of dank vids were sub too stoned to wipe his own ass incoherently waxing on about the dankness of the buds
ie : look at this dank bud...now look at this dank bud.... oh hey man remember this dank bud.....now bring up a picture of this dank bud

ida beat fuck out of that cat if ida paid a ticket and drove 3000 miles...dank bud.....rofl


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## shagalicious (Jul 12, 2012)

https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/544908-i-vouched-you.html


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## W Dragon (Jul 12, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> How many TGA plants have you grown out fucktard?
> 
> Oh i just checked your previous posts you have never tried TGA. Get out of this thread you idiot your opinions have no merit.


Are you new to growing mate? definitely comes across that way. I haven't grown out any of subs gear, would I? no is the answer. Nothing to do with sub or any of his employee's, the reason is very clear why mate. I wouldn't want to pheno hunt and sex every pack of seeds in the hope of maybe finding a keeper, 3-4months from seed per crop is an expensive gamble if you don't find a keeper and even if you do find one what about the rest of the crop? growing out TGA's gear is a gamble to many including myself mate and I'm not a gambling man especially when you consider the other options out there? 
I'm a fan of serious seeds myself grow out a pack of there fems alongside a pack of TGA's gear and see the difference mate, very uniform and solid genetics that will grow through hell and back without herming on you.
I think many are quick to bash sub because they see the dice on the table and don't fancy rolling them at the prices he is charging, especially those that need and pay for reliable seed stock to have some reliable smoke at the end of their 3-4month seed run.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 12, 2012)

very true when I can buy ak-47 and deffinetly have killer smoke for same price as all the tga strains why would I bother growing his crap


W Dragon said:


> Are you new to growing mate? definitely comes across that way. I haven't grown out any of subs gear, would I? no is the answer. Nothing to do with sub or any of his employee's, the reason is very clear why mate. I wouldn't want to pheno hunt and sex every pack of seeds in the hope of maybe finding a keeper, 3-4months from seed per crop is an expensive gamble if you don't find a keeper and even if you do find one what about the rest of the crop? growing out TGA's gear is a gamble to many including myself mate and I'm not a gambling man especially when you consider the other options out there?
> I'm a fan of serious seeds myself grow out a pack of there fems alongside a pack of TGA's gear and see the difference mate, very uniform and solid genetics that will grow through hell and back without herming on you.
> I think many are quick to bash sub because they see the dice on the table and don't fancy rolling them at the prices he is charging, especially those that need and pay for reliable seed stock to have some reliable smoke at the end of their 3-4month seed run.


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 12, 2012)

I grew out TGA's jilly bean and even though the plant grew well and looked like all the pics TGA has of Jilly Bean it produced zero smell/taste its the weirdest thing I have ever came across smells like plastic, is that considered unstable?


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## The Mantis (Jul 12, 2012)

I like tga vortex and found 2 keepers phenos in a ten pack - vortex was actually the first buds to get smoked and finished in 55 days. I've also grown 10 or so packs of fems from various breeders. My fav was my dinafem blue hash - amazing plant with huge leaves and great hash taste with a hint of sweetness. The whole room of fems, i had some herms and kept some seeds to keep for a rainy day/fun. I liked a lot of the fems too but my goals are to make a few strains/lines that will thrive in my house/outside climate and to do that i need reg seeds. i have spent a couple grand i guess now on genetics and am done collecting genes. All plants only come from a few areas of the world orginally so if you work long enough you should unlock a lot of strains that are good for you. 

As for tga's stuff being stable, i have no bias and yeah the guy might be a salesman, but his genetics are pretty darn good imo and i've had no probs yet on my second run on them (no herms, probs, etc.). Fems might work better from some, that's cool and good for yall. Good thing there are lots of options. 

Blue Hash 38 days






Vortex (a11 pheno)







i'm gonna pop some ace of spades next grow, along with gear from: sannies, mr nice, bodhi, dynasty, and maybe gage green

late


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## grandaddydank (Jul 12, 2012)

shagalicious said:


> what board is dioxide on?
> 
> what i saw of the school of dank vids were sub too stoned to wipe his own ass incoherently waxing on about the dankness of the buds
> ie : look at this dank bud...now look at this dank bud.... oh hey man remember this dank bud.....now bring up a picture of this dank bud
> ...


lol thats my impression as well, the whole first day was sub pumpin his strains and ooooh the urkel and look at this vortex and I love vortex I just love vortex......... Good look on vouch, still new to riu but we are here now. Will have some of our own crosses coming soon (Pp x Sd S1/Hermed Fem, Bk (not Katsu) x Gvt), not sure about sharing just yet but who knows. just getting over some major losses (out of our control; Moms, cuts, beans, equip).

The Smoking Man

-

Life is short. Lets all try and get along.


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## Medshed (Jul 12, 2012)

I'm sure the OP had good intentions when starting this thread but unfortunately it has been rendered useless by the inevitable TGA fanboi/hater pissing match. If the OP is still watching, my suggestion for him is to comb through some actual TGA grow journals and get real, unfiltered info:
https://www.rollitup.org/search.php?searchid=21331304

FWIW I've grown (and documented) Querkle, Pandora's Box, Dairy Queen, Jack The Ripper, and am currently growing Qush. Pandora's Box will always remain in my garden. I only flowered one of them (thanks to our 3 plant limits) but have followed a few other grows that showed similar results to mine. Querkle showed 2 phenos from 2 plants and both were tasty, but I've since found better plants in the indica dominant/euphoric category. Dairy Queen showed 2 phenos from 2 plants and both were tasty too but I grew a tolerance quickly to her and won't grow her again, even though Ilove the high profile. JTR was OK based on the 1 pheno/plant I grew but I'd rather wait the extra 3 weeks for the Kali Mist high profile, which will also always be in my garden. Querkle and Dairy Queen both threw a couple of nanners VERY late in flower but did not grow balls or release pollen so I don't count that against them, nor would I dis any plant that did the same. JTR was fully seeded but that was my fault due to an experiment gone bad with Colloidal silver.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> You do know that your preferred seed producer had/has a youtube show, right? I quit watching after he took _extreme_ offense to people pointing out that his 'breeding notes' were actually just breeding articles that DJ short had written. I believe subby actually called someone an 'ass cunt' in the rant video that followed.
> 
> I also have internet access and am a member at multiple forums which allows me to do research to '_know something about a seed company_' before I'd give them my business.
> 
> ...


(SSSC (Nevil's) X NL5 X Pluton X Purple Haze X Jack) x (Romulan X Cindy 99) x Deep Psychosis.....................sounds like some unstable trash sub came up with.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> (SSSC (Nevil's) X NL5 X Pluton X Purple Haze X Jack) x (Romulan X Cindy 99) x Deep Psychosis.....................sounds like some unstable trash sub came up with.


Deffently a stretch lol


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

why wound anyone take a chance on something so unstable as tga strains? if u look at him on youtube he lets you know wats hes about. a unstable person with unstable business trying to sell unstable seeds. a seed company that shakes the hell out of his males in a 5x5 breeding closet....never knew u had to shake the hell out the males in order to produce seeds. sub par seeds from a sub par seed company with herm genetics because he says he has the eye for dank. sub has the eye for messing up a great clone only strain.


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## gudkarma (Jul 12, 2012)

i've grown my share of weed nerd gear. 
even cuts from friends they "thought" were "superb".

note quotations.

in reality, dat gear no cut da mustard (unless you run a warehouse full). 

my grinding penchant to roast weak electricity wasting gear aside , would love to have a killer JTR cut. 

proven runner. nothing but. a true dick maker... cause that's what she said 

*

check out my new 'tude order. shwing.

guess homie caught on and now has these package deals.

buy one , get one.

damn subby you so smart with those trends !


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

Clankie said:


> From the description of Jack the Ripper Jack the Ripper is a "Pluton X Purple Haze X Lambsbread X NL X Jack Herer X Romulan X Cindy 99BCGA"
> 
> So, that's like 7 sets of genetics, most of which are already hybrids, in one strain. That he then breeds with other ridiculous polyhybrids. So the only thing I really have to say about the whole thing is that with genetics like that, herms shouldn't even be considered a surprising mutation. A surprising mutation would be if it started getting up and walking around on its own. TGA claims to be about the 'science of dank' but it is pretty obvious that they are the equivalent of a 7 year old playing with his first chemistry set, just mixing everything that came in the box. There may be a lot of good potential phenos in any TGA strain, but clearly the best result for their seeds is simply to find a good mother to cut clones from, which is my optimum result from all the TGA freebies that attitude threw at me last month. However, even a hobbyist breeder should have the common sense to avoid introducing that kind of crapshoot genetics into their breeding stock.
> 
> Even furthermore, with breeding polyhybrids like that, even his best work is really just the result of other breeders' work. Any jackass (like me!) can buy two packs of stable hybrid seed from two different breeders, and then cross them, and you know you'll get mostly good phenos. But more than taking credit for anything, you should be thanking the breeders of your parent stock, who did the actual work in this case.


soooooooo true. he lets real breeders do all the work then tells all his followers he created a new strain or hybyrid but all hes done was made a cross work of others work with somebodies elses work. really not creating a new nothing jus crossing a cross with another cross which makes everything he produces very unstable.


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> soooooooo true. he lets real breeders do all the work then tells all his followers he created a new strain or hybyrid but all hes done was made a cross work of others work with somebodies elses work. really not creating a new nothing jus crossing a cross with another cross which makes everything he produces very unstable.



Basically a lot of cannabis breeders now look like rappers stealing tracks.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 12, 2012)

The napster of the seed world!


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 12, 2012)

It does cut the mustard when you top and train your plants. You can get a really decent yeild with his gear. I agree there is a ton of good shit out there but if you dont know where to look its a good starting point and will give you dank. Im not a sub lover or none of that shit. I could give a fuck less about anybody on these forumns. But i feel the need to keep spreading the word because i dont like how people are saying its trash genetics when it obviously is not true. Unless your like bluntmassa who cant tell his head from his ass then you should know the difference.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

gudkarma said:


> i've grown my share of weed nerd gear.
> even cuts from friends they "thought" were "superb".
> 
> note quotations.
> ...


speaking of trends....after dna came out with purple trainwerck sub-par then came out with his own purple trainwerck...after the everone else came out with thier own cheese hybrids...sub-par had to come out with his own cheese cross....after nevil came out with jack herer ....sub- par used the grimms brothers work from jack herer seeds "c99" to create sub par seeds from. he has ever tried making an og cross...so wat trend has sub started. from wat ive seen he's a follower even his growing and breeding notes aint even his own. everything sub uses is work of others....now he's using jamie high cbd strain to make a fake cbd crew strain.....sub's not a trend he follow them.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> Basically a lot of cannabis breeders now look like rappers stealing tracks.


only sub ....shanti doesnt steal, nevil doesnt steal, steve doesnt steal, jim ortega doesnt steal, dj short doesnt steal.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 12, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> It does cut the mustard when you top and train your plants. You can get a really decent yeild with his gear.


 like everyone else gear


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

harlequin x has anyone seen these new mutant test seeds....sub-par had too many males in the breeding room and doesnt know how many or which male or males his harlequin cutting was crossed with. then he goes and says that there not test seeds. how many seed company give his testers seeds just to grow out now wanting to know how they came out. sounds like some backyard schwagg breeding to me


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> only sub ....shanti doesnt steal, nevil doesnt steal, steve doesnt steal, jim ortega doesnt steal, dj short doesnt steal.


And Charlie Daniels isn't a rapper. Go peruse the seedbank catalogs for the miles and miles of unworked F1s. Its become "clever" to get 2 "elite" clones, reverse one and call yourself a breeder. Which is technically true, as much as John Bobbitt was an actor.

I'm not saying people don't need to start somewhere, but I'd like to at least think a "breeder" has a fundamental understanding of genetics and a desire to create a stable strain. If you want to start somewhere, get a few diff nice IBL seed packs with predictable breeding traits and a couple books on genetics. I know its no where near as "baller", but oh well.


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## Jar Man (Jul 12, 2012)

Right, like Vortex, acknowledged by a host of review sites as some of the best grass on planet earth hands down is all a bunch of overhyped BS and all these independent review sites were paid by TGA to print that. Yeah, sure. How stupid do you think people are? Why hasn't anyone mentioned Qrazy Train? Grow it myself perpetually and have had no such problems with stability, hermies or potency.


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## Jar Man (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> only sub ....shanti doesnt steal, nevil doesnt steal, steve doesnt steal, jim ortega doesnt steal, dj short doesnt steal.


They all steal, when, "steal" is in the eye of the beholder. Every breeder has stolen the efforts of the ancient breeders before them in someone's eyes.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

i was told the sub was moving his 5x5 grow room to another location.....and was told that he has some so called afg/pak male he's been working with. mybe one day the weak ass green queen cross will be released....i released the green queen cutting i got from one of my friends into the river...lol how can one call themselves a breeder if all they do is create unstable shit no one can even breed with. breeders create stable strains that can be used in a breeding program. sub produces a hybrid with seven different phenos which makes everything he creates unstable trash u cant breed.


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## Jar Man (Jul 12, 2012)

You folks bashing TGA do realize you represent a significant minority, don't you? So a majority are clueless dumbasses who'll just smoke and grow anything and you few know better?


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> They all steal, when, "steal" is in the eye of the beholder.


who's work did jim ortega use when he created kush #4, who's work did nevil use when he created maple leaf, who's work did shanti use when he created white widow, who's work did dj short use when he created blueberry, who's work had breeder steve steal when he created sweet tooth?


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## The Mantis (Jul 12, 2012)

What is the difference breeder or a pollen chucker anyhow?

it sure seems that almost every seed bank on attitude, sannies, world of seeds, carries 90-100% f1's. 

It's really hard to find anyone line breeding any more. i just went through my seed stash and realized i have 37 strains in all, but only 4 of them are f2's or higher. Only 1 ibl in herijuana, 1 f7 in sannies jack (talk about uniform seed starts), a f3, and a f2. 

If you find a quality male and are lucky/cool enough to get real 'elite' clone only clone(s) to cross it with and make seeds, more power to you. It takes a while to find just that. Put in more time to make f2's and line breed is what the "real breeders" should be doing imo.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

it's funny how all these none breeding sub followers know as much as sub does.


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## sniffer (Jul 12, 2012)

T Ray said:


> You still never answered me! How many TGA beans have you grown out personally HB? And yes, I am asking the same question to anyone who comes in a thread about something that they have no experience with.
> 
> The reason I ask is because how on earth could you possibly know something about a seed company if you have never even cracked a bean?
> 
> ...


 20 jtr beans , no keepers and a few hermi . grew out 20 vortex beans , no keepers .
poped 10 plushberry , no keepers 

all crap im my eyes


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

The Mantis said:


> What is the difference breeder or a pollen chucker anyhow?
> 
> it sure seems that almost every seed bank on attitude, sannies, world of seeds, carries 90-100% f1's.
> 
> ...


mr nice seeds is the only seeds company left that puts in the work.


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> who's work did jim ortega use when he created kush #4, who's work did nevil use when he created maple leaf, who's work did shanti use when he created white widow, who's work did dj short use when he created blueberry, who's work had breeder steve steal when he created sweet tooth?



The difference is many of them created and works new strains off of the acquired stock. They did not just reverse and sell F1s. They actually worked a line to produce a stable strain. Even if you can not discern it, there is a HUGE difference between the two practices. 

The F1s are an easy moneymaker and produce some cool stuff. They just are not a valuable part of the overall husbandry of the plants genetics, they are a side show.


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## The Mantis (Jul 12, 2012)

sniffer said:


> 20 jtr beans , no keepers and a few hermi . grew out 20 vortex beans , no keepers .
> poped 10 plushberry , no keepers
> 
> all crap im my eyes


I'd be pissed if i grew that many out with no keepers too. You try messaging him for replacements?


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## The Mantis (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> mr nice seeds is the only seeds company left that puts in the work.


what strains does mr nice currently sell that are more than f1's? 

i have medicine man right now but was under the impression it is a f1


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> mr nice seeds is the only seeds company left that puts in the work.


Not true at all. There are many local breeders, some with international exposure still actually working lines. They just don't get all the flash when the #1 (volume) seedbank is pushing elite F1s that breeders want fast cash for.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> You folks bashing TGA do realize you represent a significant minority, don't you? So a majority are clueless dumbasses who'll just smoke and grow anything and you few know better?


id rather be apart of that small minority than being apart of a larger majority of unstable hermi growers.


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## Jar Man (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> it's funny how all these none breeding sub followers know as much as sub does.


More like anyone who doesn't agree with you just HAS TO BE ignorant or never bred anything.


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## The Mantis (Jul 12, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> Not true at all. There are many local breeders, some with international exposure still actually working lines. They just don't get all the flash when the #1 (volume) seedbank is pushing elite F1s that breeders want fast cash for.


it's great that people are doing this. but, who has access to these beans?


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> The difference is many of them created and works new strains off of the acquired stock. They did not just reverse and sell F1s. They actually worked a line to produce a stable strain. Even if you can not discern it, there is a HUGE difference between the two practices.
> 
> The F1s are an easy moneymaker and produce some cool stuff. They just are not a valuable part of the overall husbandry of the plants genetics, they are a side show.


wat are u smoking on?


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## Jar Man (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> id rather be apart of that small minority than being apart of a larger majority of unstable hermi growers.


Can you think? It means the odds are heavily on the side that you're full of it or clueless. Where's the basis to suggest there would be all this majority of unstable hermie growers? Oh that's right. In your mind alone.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> More like anyone who doesn't agree with you just HAS TO BE ignorant or never bred anything.


making a cross doesnt make one a breeder when others use ur strains to created something else and call it there's make u a breeder. not even the so called king of cannabis uses tga trash and he's the number one theif of cannabis.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> Can you think? It means the odds are heavily on the side that you're full of it or clueless. Where's the basis to suggest there would be all this majority of unstable hermie growers? Oh that's right. In your mind alone.


So you are tellin me that because I'm saying Tga is a bunch of crap with a 100 different phenos in one strain that I will smoke anything?
If you look on this site alone you will find plenty of Tga hermie gear.. Mainly with the new plushberry and aos, but then Ao,jtr,jc2.


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## Jar Man (Jul 12, 2012)

sniffer said:


> 20 jtr beans , no keepers and a few hermi . grew out 20 vortex beans , no keepers .
> poped 10 plushberry , no keepers
> 
> all crap im my eyes


Because you and a small handfull say so overides mountains of others who say different? Hmmmm? Better go back to school and learn how to lie to yourself better.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> Can you think? It means the odds are heavily on the side that you're full of it or clueless. Where's the basis to suggest there would be all this majority of unstable hermie growers? Oh that's right. In your mind alone.


if ur a person who uses tga seeds...start at page one and read up to this page.


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## The Mantis (Jul 12, 2012)

It is pretty much the wild west out there right now as far as who can sell seeds etc. Just get you product to holland or uk, post them online, and rake in the dough. Just like dietary supplements, etc. 

Bottom line is that as consumers, we have the power to choose who we give our business to. If you run gear, show pics and explain why something sucks or is great. Then you can buy more or not. I ran fem gear before, found out it's not for me, and now it's in a shoe box. I like other more than some. I like subs vortex enough to grow it outside and inside another run or two and bought more of his beans. I'll def report if it herms, but so far so good. All gear can herm if you fuck it up. I just had a first time herm of my tahoe og the other day (but i let a little light in the closet). i've beat up on this tahoe og kush from cc a few times but it finally broke down. this strain has been very easy and good to me even though i only got 2/5 crack open.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 12, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> So you are tellin me that because I'm saying Tga is a bunch of crap with a 100 different phenos in one strain that I will smoke anything?
> If you look on this site alone you will find plenty of Tga hermie gear.. Mainly with the new plushberry and aos, but then Ao,jtr,jc2.


Wytes right confirmed agaent orange hermie here


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 12, 2012)

It's more than a small handful of people saying Tga is crap.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 12, 2012)

Sketchy comfirmed hermie on more than one pack on the plush


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

cant believe sub havent came by to cry.....or even delet the truth about his seed company


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

How the mighty have fallen
Subcool was worshiped around here not so long ago LOL
now all i see are negative comments about him on various threads 
what did he do to upset folk around here ?? 

i have only grown the flav from him, it was healthy no hemmys but it was nothing like the descriptions on his site


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 12, 2012)

I think its more attitude over the hermieing issue, you can just go along with a my shit dont skink its the grower fault
attitude and exspect there not to be some fallout!


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> How the mighty have fallen
> Subcool was worshiped around here not so long ago LOL
> now all i see are negative comments about him on various threads
> what did he do to upset folk around here ??
> ...


there's a thread on here called angel heart vs the flav....guess which one came out on top


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 12, 2012)

you can also go to mr. nice which is an even better starting point hes cheaper, he will give you dank, even 18 seeds per pack and if you top and train your plants you wil get good yields. but wait... you will also get good much more stable genetics and you can actually expect whats advertised. 


Da Almighty Jew said:


> It does cut the mustard when you top and train your plants. You can get a really decent yeild with his gear. I agree there is a ton of good shit out there but if you dont know where to look its a good starting point and will give you dank. .


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> there's a thread on here called angel heart vs the flav....guess which one came out on top


lol funny m8


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I think its more attitude over the hermieing issue, you can just go along with a my shit dont skink its the grower fault
> attitude and exspect there not to be some fallout!


also here lately he's has a very low germ rate. i know ppl who went 0-10 and all where different hybrids


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 12, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> How the mighty have fallen
> Subcool was worshiped around here not so long ago LOL
> now all i see are negative comments about him on various threads
> what did he do to upset folk around here ??
> ...


He's taking the heat of Cali Connection and their Budda Tahoe/ tahoe hermie feminized problems..lol


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I think its more attitude over the hermieing issue, you can just go along with a my shit dont skink its the grower fault
> attitude and exspect there not to be some fallout!


Thanks for the heads up on that m8 ... when folk have a rude attitude they do so much damage to their own business, manners cost nothing 
maybe subcool has been hanging out with swerve or something LOL


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> you can also go to mr. nice which is an even better starting point hes cheaper, he will give you dank, even 18 seeds per pack and if you top and train your plants you wil get good yields. but wait... you will also get good much more stable genetics and you can actually expect whats advertised.


nothing but the truth


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> also here lately he's has a very low germ rate. i know ppl who went 0-10 and all where different hybrids


Thats not good! Prices go up and germ rate goes down, and throw in hermie issue lol dis is not looking good


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## gudkarma (Jul 12, 2012)

i grow lots of herb.
since i found the web made mad friends, run gear for e$ko & inkognyto , & got mad strains under my belt.

i dislike TGA lots ...even though i have select packs of his gear which have some known killer phenos (JTR & Chernyobl & some freebie i forget).

& im a little stunned dude just related 20 JTR and no keeper!

*

& even if subby claims to be canna breeder elite #1 ...he's not.
& space dude is a bisexual making nanner chucking half fag.

& good strains can be run any way. not just trained for tops. 

for example : no veg & every single TGA clone (strain) i ever put to flower goes right into the "made an 1/8th of dry product" trash bin.

on the other hand, i can think of 10 strians not made by sub that blow his shit to the curb : headband , so cal master kush , blue dream , mss , sensistar , romulan , trainwreck , loompa's original diesel , the white , and ecsd.

see ^ its easy to forget about dude.


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> nothing but the truth


funny you guys say this, they are crying about hemmies over there too, but not in public LOL


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

gudkarma said:


> i grow lots of herb.
> i dislike TGA lots even though i have packs of his gear (JTR & Chernyobl & some freebie i forget).
> 
> & im a little stunned dude just related 20 JTR and no keeper.


20 seeds and not keep thats no good


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## SketchyGrower (Jul 12, 2012)

30 plushberry no keepers


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> funny you guys say this, they are crying about hemmies over there too, but not in public LOL


how many strains are have that problem at mrice seeds? other than g13hz and ortega? how many. with g13 haze it's only the lower part of the plant and u can fix that with just cutting the lowers off and it's fixed. before one talk about something they need to know the whole story and tell the whole story


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## gudkarma (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> 20 seeds and not keep thats no good


^ agreed ++++


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

I did not get any hemmies from the mr nice angelheart or subcools flav, 
the angelheart was better but that is my preference .. some folk may of preferred the flav 
angelheart showed more phenotypes than the flav lol it is very unstable just like many of the mr nice haze strains 
one of the flav plants was good, i just did not like the sour lemon haze taste, the flav was supposed to be a hash taste


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> how many strains are have that problem at mrice seeds? other than g13hz and ortega? how many. with g13 haze it's only the lower part of the plant and u can fix that with just cutting the lowers off and it's fixed. before one talk about something they need to know the whole story and tell the whole story


many haze strains show phenotype diversity, surely you know this ?


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

by the look at this thread tga has more problems than shanti. besides shanti is a breeder and sub is a crosser. which strain or hybrid has sub ever created? NONE!!!!!! tga has how may males they breed with and how many males does mns uses? which comapany produces stable seeds mns or tga? lol


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> many haze strains show phenotype diversity, surely you know this ?


haze is a hybrid not a strain.....all hazes show diversity......c99 and apollo is a haze hybrid


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> I did not get any hemmies from the mr nice angelheart or subcools flav,
> the angelheart was better but that is my preference .. some folk may of preferred the flav
> angelheart showed more phenotypes than the flav lol it is very unstable just like many of the mr nice haze strains
> one of the flav plants was good, i just did not like the sour lemon haze taste, the flav was supposed to be a hash taste


mhz/sk isnt stable ......but wat i seen from that grow where more keepers and plants fitting wat the person say their strain would do and is.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

after reading your thread i order me some mhz/afg sk


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

i was unaware this thread was a competition between mr nice and subcool 
if you are asking whos strains i would rather grow, it would be mr nice 
that is my own preference, i would not say one is better than the other 

putting any breeder on a pedestal is a bad idea
many of the most loyal growers on the mr nice forum left some time ago and formed their own private forum
many of them are breeding their own lines, 
hemmies have been common with the mango haze line, also the ssh line has had some issues
to be honest im not botherd i will still give his afghan haze a run soon


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> after reading your thread i order me some mhz/afg sk


Angelheart ! 
i like it m8, but it has a phenotype for everyday of the year LOL


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> i was unaware this thread was a competition between mr nice and subcool
> if you are asking whos strains i would rather grow, it would be mr nice
> that is my own preference, i would not say one is better than the other
> 
> ...


i never wanted to seem like a subcool vs mns.....i never ran afghz but i have ran afgsk/afghz. i ran into some problems with walkabout this year.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 12, 2012)

I'm not stressed about herms with tga every seed company has had herms just the price and instabillity of his strains and also his breeding room on his show didn't do him justice and also his rants are just stupid who wants to give a full grown man good money just to here him bitch and the way he talked about blueberry being trash and one of his strains had more blueberry phenos than DJ and DP makes him look like a joke also all the other strains I've heard him put down just to say his is better.


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> wat are u smoking on?


I got a lot of options at the moment.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

i made a nice cross...........afg/afgsk x afgsk/afghz.


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

The Mantis said:


> it's great that people are doing this. but, who has access to these beans?


It takes a little digging, but you can find them on some seed banks. If you are in a Medical Use place then its gonna be a lot easier. The problem is the number of "breeders" vs. breeders these days makes finding the good ones hard. The good news is there are more of them and they are more open then anytime since prohibition.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> I'm not stressed about herms with tga every seed company has had herms just the price and instabillity of his strains and also his breeding room on his show didn't do him justice and also his rants are just stupid who wants to give a full grown man good money just to here him bitch and the way he talked about blueberry being trash and one of his strains had more blueberry phenos than DJ and DP makes him look like a joke also all the other strains I've heard him put down just to say his is better.


yea i watch him talk down on him too. but if it wasnt for dj short he wouldnt have any breeders notes or growers notes. and his weed nerds would be even more lost.


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

the grape stomper guy .. gage green genetics, he has a few crosses using mr nice males, using afghan skunk and afghan haze males
i have them on my list too, i have seen hardly any hemmies over the years, but i have seen more recently from regular seeds


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> It takes a little digging, but you can find them on some seed banks. If you are in a Medical Use place then its gonna be a lot easier. The problem is the number of "breeders" vs. breeders these days makes finding the good ones hard. The good news is there are more of them and they are more open then anytime since prohibition.


better breeders than jim ortega, nevil and shanti? in the last 20 years name a new strain that was created without any of their strains or hybrids.


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> It's more than a small handful of people saying Tga is crap.



Saying "crap" is not fair either. Its the F1s and "sexy genetics" the market is screaming for and the A is pushing along with Fems and Autos. TGA is just producing what the market wants, I mean how much Apollo do you think they could sell these days? How much does it cost in time an effort to develop a stable strain vs. investing in cuts and making a sexy polyploidenstein? I personally give them a lot of credit for all the work they have done to get where they are, as well as the edutainment infomercials. Its good stuff and great capitalism.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> Thanks for the heads up on that m8 ... when folk have a rude attitude they do so much damage to their own business, manners cost nothing
> maybe subcool has been hanging out with swerve or something LOL


It is a bit like some of these guys think they are breeding chickens. Who has the biggest cock and all...


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> the grape stomper guy .. gage green genetics, he has a few crosses using mr nice males, using afghan skunk and afghan haze males
> i have them on my list too, i have seen hardly any hemmies over the years, but i have seen more recently from regular seeds


this year im gonna make an mhz/afgsk x afg/afgsk cross.


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> better breeders than jim ortega, nevil and shanti? in the last 20 years name a new strain that was created without any of their strains or hybrids.



Reread what I was responding too. I didn't say better, I said local who still actually put in the work.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 12, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> Saying "crap" is not fair either. Its the F1s and "sexy genetics" the market is screaming for and the A is pushing along with Fems and Autos. TGA is just producing what the market wants, I mean how much Apollo do you think they could sell these days? How much does it cost in time an effort to develop a stable strain vs. investing in cuts and making a sexy polyploidenstein? I personally give them a lot of credit for all the work they have done to get where they are, as well as the edutainment infomercials. Its good stuff and great capitalism.
> 
> Don't hate the player, hate the game.


wat work did they do on apollo or c99...wat work did they do on cheese, trainwerck or harlequin? if they're doing hard work i guess people like nevil them are lazy as hell. CLONE only breeders aint breeders in my book....anybody can do that.


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> this year im gonna make an mhz/afgsk x afg/afgsk cross.


Nordle is the afgsk used in the better crosses 

Nordle x afghan haze could be a winner  
i find with shanti's gear you only need just a pinch of haze in the cross and it will still dominate many of the phenotypes
if you like some afghan too, you need a fair amount in there for it to show itself


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 12, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> Saying "crap" is not fair either. Its the F1s and "sexy genetics" the market is screaming for and the A is pushing along with Fems and Autos. TGA is just producing what the market wants, I mean how much Apollo do you think they could sell these days? How much does it cost in time an effort to develop a stable strain vs. investing in cuts and making a sexy polyploidenstein? I personally give them a lot of credit for all the work they have done to get where they are, as well as the edutainment infomercials. Its good stuff and great capitalism.
> 
> Don't hate the player, hate the game.


How about I hate no one and call it how I see it.. Sub been running this bs for years.. I remember when he first came with this plushberry line saying Tga first kush.. I asked one simple question what is in black cherry soda that makes it a kush? His answer -" it's kush because I said its kush" then deletes the thread so no one can see how much of a ass he just made of himself. Now you take that type of attitude the fact that I've grown nothin but males out of all the gear I tried and friends of mine reporting multiple hermie problems on multiple strains.. I feel sorry for him rather then hate him.


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

From what i can make of this, it seems folk have had issues with subcool for some time
but were unable to voice them because of how much subcool was loved here by so many and put on a pedestal like so many breeders are

i think charliebud is right, its silly to blame the breeders , they are cashing in on a market of idiots and fanboys
who change opinions and loyalties like the weather

now the tide has turned so to speak , people now feel it is "ok" to speak out about subcools strains without the fear of criticism
that would explain all the negative comments about him lately.. seem's to have come on with a great snowball effect 
so many threads calling him out

will subcool become the next arjan .. the king of ladyboyz ? 
the drama continues lol


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## CharlieBud (Jul 12, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> How about I hate no one and call it how I see it.. Sub been running this bs for years.. I remember when he first came with this plushberry line saying Tga first kush.. I asked one simple question what is in black cherry soda that makes it a kush? His answer -" it's kush because I said its kush" then deletes the thread so no one can see how much of a ass he just made of himself. Now you take that type of attitude the fact that I've grown nothin but males out of all the gear I tried and friends of mine reporting multiple hermie problems on multiple strains.. I feel sorry for him rather then hate him.


Oh I feel your pain and aggravation. I just don't see him as unusual in the quality of the genetics vs. the overall marketplace. Its really amazing to look at what would happen overnight if cannabis went 100% legal and breeders, growers, and dispensaries were forced to play by the usual market rules. As well as compete with the professional agricultural community.


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## althor (Jul 12, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> How about I hate no one and call it how I see it.. Sub been running this bs for years.. I remember when he first came with this plushberry line saying Tga first kush.. I asked one simple question what is in black cherry soda that makes it a kush? His answer -" it's kush because I said its kush" then deletes the thread so no one can see how much of a ass he just made of himself. Now you take that type of attitude the fact that I've grown nothin but males out of all the gear I tried and friends of mine reporting multiple hermie problems on multiple strains.. I feel sorry for him rather then hate him.



I have been wondering, what is it that seems to cause subs gear to have such a high ratio of males? I have never seen so many males from one breeder before.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 12, 2012)

Tell me about it. I just have to look the other way now.


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## skunkd0c (Jul 12, 2012)

althor said:


> I have been wondering, what is it that seems to cause subs gear to have such a high ratio of males? I have never seen so many males from one breeder before.


i had some good luck with blues from ugorg on my most recent run 6 females from 8 seeds
don't think i have had that much luck before lol


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## racerboy71 (Jul 12, 2012)

althor said:


> I have been wondering, what is it that seems to cause subs gear to have such a high ratio of males? I have never seen so many males from one breeder before.


 well, duh, it's growers error..


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## lahadaextranjera (Jul 12, 2012)

There must be more than 12 different breeders in here !! This is where my seeds come from, unless I'm clone swapping !!


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## Jogro (Jul 12, 2012)

_*Breeder:*_ Someone who takes multiple established landrace or hybrid lines, crosses them, selects from their offspring to isolate specific desired traits from each of the parents, then recrosses (or back-crosses) and reselects from succeeding generations until the resulting progeny both have the desired traits and have been genetically stabilized into their own true-breeding line (or close to it). To do this right typically takes selections involving hundreds of plants, and at least five generations, meaning any "breeding" project intended to create a TRUE new strain will necessarily take over a year, typically closer to two years, and in some cases even longer than that. Plant count constraints mean that true breeding projects are typically not something that amateurs can undertake. 

_*Pollen-chucker:*_ The most blatant example of this is someone who takes two plants (which may not even themselves represent stable lines), crosses them into an F1 hybrid then renames the F1 into a "new" strain and sells it as such. The trend here has been for the new wave breeders to start these projects using elite "clone only" strains (which themselves are usually hybrids). 

The "better" pollen chuckers may do some backcrossing and/or selection over a few generations to try and reduce the offspring variability. 

Hybrid vigor means that its definitely possible to get exceptionally good plants this way, but without going through multiple generations of selection, they're effectively "mutts". Unless the cross was done using only F1 seeds from established true breeding lines, plants bred this way aren't stable (in the sense that many different phenotypes may occur in a pack of seeds), and since hermaphrodite-prone genes haven't been selected out over multiple generations, these plants may have a greater-than-usual chance of going hermie. 

Note that in both cases, the crosser is typically starting with genetics they didn't have a hand in creating. Ultimately all medical cannabis lines go back to landrace strains that have been selectively bred by people for literally thousands of years, and nobody alive that's breeding can honestly say that they didn't originally start off with genetics that haven't been worked over many many generations before by other breeders/growers. 

But there is quite a difference between the two categories in what is being done, and why.


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## Jogro (Jul 12, 2012)

althor said:


> I have been wondering, what is it that seems to cause subs gear to have such a high ratio of males? I have never seen so many males from one breeder before.


I've never grown his gear; so I can't say whether or not the premise here is true, or specifically why. 

What I can say is that, in nature, plants will approximate an exact 50-50 M/F ratio due to selective pressure. 

Growing indoors under artificial selective pressure to maintain females, lots of strains will actually put out more females than males. 

If a strain consistently puts out more males than females, then that's got to be an issue with the plants genetics, how the seeds are being grown, or more likely both.


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## The Mantis (Jul 12, 2012)

Jogro said:


> _*Breeder:*_ Someone who takes multiple established landrace or hybrid lines, crosses them, selects from their offspring to isolate specific desired traits from each of the parents, then recrosses (or back-crosses) and reselects from succeeding generations until the resulting progeny both have the desired traits and have been genetically stabilized into their own true-breeding line (or close to it). To do this right typically takes selections involving hundreds of plants, and at least five generations, meaning any "breeding" project intended to create a TRUE new strain will necessarily take over a year, typically closer to two years, and in some cases even longer than that. Plant count constraints mean that true breeding projects are typically not something that amateurs can undertake.
> 
> _*Pollen-chucker:*_ The most blatant example of this is someone who takes two plants (which may not even themselves represent stable lines), crosses them into an F1 hybrid then renames the F1 into a "new" strain and sells it as such. The trend here has been for the new wave breeders to start these projects using elite "clone only" strains (which themselves are usually hybrids).
> 
> ...



Well put and that was my point too. Most of all the seed producers/breeders out there have some 'elite' clone crossed with a 'proven' male. however, i've yet to find more than a few that show any pics documenting their work and/or selection process. Unless you make your own ibl or get lucky to find some, you are really at the markets'/breeders mercy. imo, the more time, pics, and documentation a breeder has the more people will trust and believe them. everyone starts somewhere.


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## Jar Man (Jul 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I think its more attitude over the hermieing issue, you can just go along with a my shit dont skink its the grower fault
> attitude and exspect there not to be some fallout!


But if so few of you are raggin relative to so many informed more growers with some actual credibility, maybe some here need to take a long look in the mirror. I did some checking around online to see if maybe something was going on with TGA I hadn't heard yet. I saw hardly anything except good reports on TGA's exceptional gear. Indeed! Y'all full of it!


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## Jar Man (Jul 12, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> From what i can make of this, it seems folk have had issues with subcool for some time
> but were unable to voice them because of how much subcool was loved here by so many and put on a pedestal like so many breeders are
> 
> i think charliebud is right, its silly to blame the breeders , they are cashing in on a market of idiots and fanboys
> ...


No such tide has turned except in your mind. The numbers who still praise TGA faaaaaaaaar, did you hear that? I said, faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the few wanna' be breeders on here. Let's hear someone actually try to say Vortex isn't really that good, or bash Qrazy Train. Most all review sites claim they're among the best of the best. They all TGA paid mouthpieces, or what?


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## SketchyGrower (Jul 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> But if so few of you are raggin relative to so many informed more growers with some actual credibility, maybe some here need to take a long look in the mirror. I did some checking around online to see if maybe something was going on with TGA I hadn't heard yet. I saw hardly anything except good reports on TGA's exceptional gear. Indeed! Y'all full of it!



[video=youtube;r2YyTpXkges]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2YyTpXkges[/video]


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> But if so few of you are raggin relative to so many informed more growers with some actual credibility, maybe some here need to take a long look in the mirror. I did some checking around online to see if maybe something was going on with TGA I hadn't heard yet. I saw hardly anything except good reports on TGA's exceptional gear. Indeed! Y'all full of it!


So u don't see no reports of hermies? Your full of it.. I see a new report everyday on hermies in subs gear.. I see even more reports about all the crazy phenos in his gear..


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 12, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> No such tide has turned except in your mind. The numbers who still praise TGA faaaaaaaaar, did you hear that? I said, faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the few wanna' be breeders on here. Let's hear someone actually try to say Vortex isn't really that good, or bash Qrazy Train. Most all review sites claim they're among the best of the best. They all TGA paid mouthpieces, or what?


Let's hear someone say cheeze quake was weak? I did
Lets hear someone say they got hermies in subs gear? I did
lets hear someone say they didn't find a keeper in 30 seeds but yet found hermies? I did
lets see how sub reacts to threads about his gear in his section when he hears about hermies? I did and yu know what he does? Close threads and deletes them lmao.


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## Trulife69 (Jul 13, 2012)

For the most part I dont think people are in here just to bash sub..I started this thread because my last cpl grows with subs seeds havn't gone so well...And to boot my buddies who popped some of his seeds ended up with herms.. and they never ran into hermies until switching to Subs stuff.
For me the first go around I might have stressed them slightly but not much and she threw nanners..Temps and RH are always on the money,good enviorment,no light leaks what soever and no nute burn..But 1st round with tga Ace of Spades...both girls threw bananas close to wk5 so I tossed the one with more bananas and just kept the other..I looked for bananas everyday and plucked them and only found maybe 12 seeds after harvest..not the end of the world but what a pain to pick bananas every couple days....Then I cleaned the entire room,No half assed either..fans,inside &outside lights,filters,pots etc...I fire up 2 more AOS and they both threw bananas around wk 4,I just was pisst and tossed them..No nute burn,Not light leak,healthy,perfect RH and temps..But hermied just like first round with AOS....So now I say F*ck the AOS and toss em out of veg. I had some vortex ready to throw into flower..4 to be exact.. I did the same routine and cleaned like a tweaker! And checked hardcore for a light leak but none,nada,zelch. I throw the vortex in..It starts off good,seems vortex can handle the nutes..I never had any burns..a cpl days after wk 5 she threw some bananas..not a ton..Now They are almost ready to go,they look good and I have found a few beans but it looks like i will make it out ok But WTF?! Even if it turns out ok,thats crap. You say look in the mirror..What do you think people do when it happens to them the first time..you blame yourself and then after the repeated process of subs seeds throwing naners it starts to point back at him...We have all read threads where people say They cant hermie a plant haha,maybe I should just tell them to get some from sub..Say what you want but his strains are unstable,I know,I have been fucking around with them since the beginning of the year. All I started the thread for was "Are his strains stable" and wanted to know what people had to say and their experiences with his shit were...Be mad if ya want but Im not chasing phenos around in circles to hopefully find that one keeper...My buddies never hermie their shit and they had the same probs but with plushberry,AOS and Heard kaboom is unstable". Im not bashing the guy,I just wish I would have paid a little more attention to what I got...Like I said,I bet you can pop that killer strain but how much of a headache do you want?? I will never purchase another seed from sub


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## Trulife69 (Jul 13, 2012)

As I said before,I didn't not start this thread to bash sub,but there has been some good education on subs stuff through the pages


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## Kite High (Jul 13, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> No such tide has turned except in your mind. The numbers who still praise TGA faaaaaaaaar, did you hear that? I said, faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the few wanna' be breeders on here. Let's hear someone actually try to say Vortex isn't really that good, or bash Qrazy Train. Most all review sites claim they're among the best of the best. They all TGA paid mouthpieces, or what?


you licking sub's nuts alot...jus sayin


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## Jar Man (Jul 13, 2012)

I could go on and on and on and on with these very same sources that prove just who's full of it here:



_"Only Organics_

_ _
_*Seasoned Members* _
_




























_
_4,493 posts _


_LocationGouranga _

_Reputation: 3,858_
_Excellent _

_Posted 16 November 2010 - 05:07 PM _
_----
Here are a few VORTEX grown in roots and fed Botanicare nutes. Apparently while these were in veg and I was living in a cave somewhere, it won the medical cannabis cup? Now, after harvest, I know why. Some of the best extreme nausea meds I've had in addition to several other pluses.


It all started with a good ol' 10 pack of TGA Vortex I had laying around for about a 6 months, heck- maybe more?.. You see I had picked it up initially thinking it would be mediocre; and all the 'hype' (Which I now think of as gospel) that Sub had been spreading around the forums documenting his elite breeding experiments was all a ploy to make seed money (much like some other breeders strain videos). After growing other breeders gear (4 new strains for 20 grows) and only finding a couple keepers, while reading and falling in love with "the book of DANK," I gotta wild idea to sprout my TGA gear I'd purchased some time earlier.

Thinking nothing of it I didnt even label the strains going in, just threw the beans with 5 other breeders gear into some towels and onto the heating pad they went (yes sub I cooked your gear and it sprouted, but I use a thermostat controller).... From percentages only I had 8 of the 10 Vortex beans pop along with a troop of LA confidential, lemon skunk, and less than impressive others.... Vegetative growth was uneventful for all as they gathered the strength and underground infrastructure for explosive flower development. Vegging everything to a height of 24" and growing in a loose SOG I unflinchingly threw all of my the potential girls and studs into 12/12 and waited like a kid for x-mas. I was in need of meds for myself and my patient and couldn't wait any longer for them to indicate sex and get this flower power show on the road.

The 8 vortex went on to produce 2 males and 6 females and when the males indicated their plans they were seperated and deprived from any real tlc (very low light, no transplant, no nutes, no ph'ing the water).. After much thought I made the chop and only kept one male long enough for some selective seed making on one branch per plant. The females had already began developing quickly as they had the power of HPS and nutrients on their side to rush them ahead of the males development."

_


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## Jar Man (Jul 13, 2012)

Kite High said:


> you licking sub's nuts alot...jus sayin


That the best you can come up with? Likewise, I'm sure!


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## Jar Man (Jul 13, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> For the most part I dont think people are in here just to bash sub..I started this thread because my last cpl grows with subs seeds havn't gone so well...And to boot my buddies who popped some of his seeds ended up with herms.. and they never ran into hermies until switching to Subs stuff.
> For me the first go around I might have stressed them slightly but not much and she threw nanners..Temps and RH are always on the money,good enviorment,no light leaks what soever and no nute burn..But 1st round with tga Ace of Spades...both girls threw bananas close to wk5 so I tossed the one with more bananas and just kept the other..I looked for bananas everyday and plucked them and only found maybe 12 seeds after harvest..not the end of the world but what a pain to pick bananas every couple days....Then I cleaned the entire room,No half assed either..fans,inside &outside lights,filters,pots etc...I fire up 2 more AOS and they both threw bananas around wk 4,I just was pisst and tossed them..No nute burn,Not light leak,healthy,perfect RH and temps..But hermied just like first round with AOS....So now I say F*ck the AOS and toss em out of veg. I had some vortex ready to throw into flower..4 to be exact.. I did the same routine and cleaned like a tweaker! And checked hardcore for a light leak but none,nada,zelch. I throw the vortex in..It starts off good,seems vortex can handle the nutes..I never had any burns..a cpl days after wk 5 she threw some bananas..not a ton..Now They are almost ready to go,they look good and I have found a few beans but it looks like i will make it out ok But WTF?! Even if it turns out ok,thats crap. You say look in the mirror..What do you think people do when it happens to them the first time..you blame yourself and then after the repeated process of subs seeds throwing naners it starts to point back at him...We have all read threads where people say They cant hermie a plant haha,maybe I should just tell them to get some from sub..Say what you want but his strains are unstable,I know,I have been fucking around with them since the beginning of the year. All I started the thread for was "Are his strains stable" and wanted to know what people had to say and their experiences with his shit were...Be mad if ya want but Im not chasing phenos around in circles to hopefully find that one keeper...My buddies never hermie their shit and they had the same probs but with plushberry,AOS and Heard kaboom is unstable". Im not bashing the guy,I just wish I would have paid a little more attention to what I got...Like I said,I bet you can pop that killer strain but how much of a headache do you want?? I will never purchase another seed from sub


I've read plenty of similarly negative posts about other breeders that's no diferent than what you say here. There are numerous small camps of disgruntled growers who didn't get what they were supposed to in their order or supposedly stable plants, weren't. Some rant on about all or mostly males or hermies showing up. Blah- blah- blah. I heard it all before many times. Y'all just got an axe to grind and a chip on your shoulder. If ya' don't like Subs gear, then don't order his beans. There's more than plenty of us who do.


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## Jar Man (Jul 13, 2012)

SketchyGrower said:


> [video=youtube;r2YyTpXkges]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2YyTpXkges[/video]


It may have flown... right up till you missed my first sentence that just rendered your brain moot.


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## CharlieBud (Jul 13, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> I could go on and on and on and on with these very same sources that prove just who's full of it here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


'Vortex' would not be one of the newer TGA strains now would it? "High Times Top 10 2007", I guess not.  Let's see those 'nannerberry' and 'tranny bubba' endorsements? Again, not saying you can't find great keeper phenos, just that the newer lines are not (as?) stable. Again, this is what the market is demanding. More strains, released faster, using clone only strains as parent stock.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 13, 2012)

Lol theres always one in a crowd! Man youhave no clue the level of growing exp i have! Or how many tga strains i have grown.
dec 2011 join date hmm right when all the sub issues started so im guessing this is a ghost account! Most likey someone with 
something to gain.


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## ink the world (Jul 13, 2012)

So I've been keeping up on the thread since I posted earlier. Made me go double check my garden for hermies.
Happy to report no nanas on any of the 4 TGA keepers or their offspring in my grow.

As usual shit gets blown out of proportion around here. I remember tooling on someone here last year for proclaiming Plushberry the greatest strain to drop in history, this was the day it was released. Overhype is the problem. People expect either too much or have unreal expectations. IE expecting polyhybrids being stable phenotype wise is unreasonable.

The bottom line is that TGA produces polyhybrids. If you're expecting pheno stability you're either an uneducated grower or have unrealistic expectations. The masses hop on the bandwagon and reality turns into hype.

My TGA gear is good, not the best I've ever had but hardly junk as some are implying. Seems to me that I've seen a couple posters here with an axe to grind w/ Sub...I've seen at least one poster harass and stalk the guy on here. 

To unknowing readers, I ask that you research some of the real hateful comments and see their past posts. Same thing with the TGA devotees. You'll find the real truth lies somewhere in the middle of the 2 camps


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## Clankie (Jul 13, 2012)

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I am pretty sure that none of Subcool's strains are actually F1 hybrids. An F1 hybrid is very strictly the combination of *two true breeding lines*, which results in a plant with all dominant genetics, and the justly revered 'hybrid vigor'. When you cross non-stabilized lines, which is generally any hybrid less than F7, the result is actually an F2 hybrid, even if it is first generation in this specific circumstance, and this generation (and all those after) will not have hybrid vigor. Real seed breeders, if they want to breed from hybrid stock, stabilize the hybrid first to arrive at a true-breeding parent line, and it is from the cross of these stabilized parent lines that will result in an actual F1 hybrid, which generally show relatively little variation (usually 2-4 phenotypes) and contain no paired recessive genes. F2 generations will show the most radically different phenotypes, as they will have the most genetic variation, and will be the first generation to contain paired recessive genes.


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## SketchyGrower (Jul 13, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> It may have flown... right up till you missed my first sentence that just rendered your brain moot.


[video=youtube;wSvhkS-GuSs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSvhkS-GuSs[/video]


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## ink the world (Jul 13, 2012)

Clankie said:


> I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I am pretty sure that none of Subcool's strains are actually F1 hybrids. An F1 hybrid is very strictly the combination of *two true breeding lines*, which results in a plant with all dominant genetics, and the justly revered 'hybrid vigor'. When you cross non-stabilized lines, which is generally any hybrid less than F7, the result is actually an F2 hybrid, even if it is first generation in this specific circumstance, and this generation (and all those after) will not have hybrid vigor. Real seed breeders, if they want to breed from hybrid stock, stabilize the hybrid first to arrive at a true-breeding parent line, and it is from the cross of these stabilized parent lines that will result in an actual F1 hybrid, which generally show relatively little variation (usually 2-4 phenotypes) and contain no paired recessive genes. F2 generations will show the most radically different phenotypes, as they will have the most genetic variation, and will be the first generation to contain paired recessive genes.


Kinda sounds like were singing the same song.
Hybrid X Hybrid= unstabilized and many phenos

My gripe is that the idea of these seeds being polyhybrids is clear. I think people expecting uniformity from the is unreasonable. The herm problem some are having is something I personally haven't encountered with the 3 TGA strains I've run


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## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

hell i have a complete feminized garden and no nanners,his stuff must suck now sounds like.but tga did gift me with 8 males on the las run with them out of a 10 pac,


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## GUN1 (Jul 13, 2012)

Clankie said:


> I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I am pretty sure that none of Subcool's strains are actually F1 hybrids. An F1 hybrid is very strictly the combination of *two true breeding line An f1 is a breeding between any 2 different lines no matter how many genetics are involved.* *which results in a plant showing dominant and/or co-dominant gentics and possibly hetrozygous for recessive genetics if parent plants carry recessive genes* , and the justly revered 'hybrid vigor'. When you cross non-stabilized lines, which is generally any hybrid less than F7, the result is actually an F2 hybrid *wrong*, even if it is first generation in this specific circumstance, and this generation (and all those after) will not have hybrid vigor. Real seed breeders, if they want to breed from hybrid stock, stabilize the hybrid first to arrive at a true-breeding parent line, and it is from the cross of these stabilized parent lines that will result in an actual F1 hybrid, which generally show relatively little variation (usually 2-4 phenotypes) and contain no paired recessive genes.*The amount of variation will depend on the amount of and inheritance of the genes carried by the parent plants. If both parents carry many co-dominant genetics the variation could be huge*. F2 generations will show the most radically different phenotypes, as they will have the most genetic variation, and will be the first generation to contain paired recessive genes.


*If subcool knows what hes doing the variation may very well be because he has parent plants homozygous for many different genes. 
In my books that is a good thing.*


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 13, 2012)

I'm surprised sub did not see this thread yet and does not want to say anything.. I asked him about his plushberry hermies and he need even answered just overlooked the question.


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## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

i know a few breeders like that.some jus qit testing and seed qality, and jus chunkem out to us and dont wannna hear it....


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## grandaddydank (Jul 13, 2012)

SketchyGrower said:


> 30 plushberry no keepers


ouch. double ouch.

The Smoking Man

-

Lets all try and get along. Life is short.


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## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

my GOD 30 beans no keeper.


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## grandaddydank (Jul 13, 2012)

yea that is awful, we just lost 3 mother plants, equip, cuts, so much more, but managed to save our bread and butter. I would just cry if I wasted a veg cycle on 30 shit beans.

On another note, I talked to a friend of mine who sells seeds worldwide, and after clearing up some stocking questions, he mentioned that most every breeder nowadays is making the transition to feminized seed, and we discussed why for a little while. He mentioned that most breeders are protecting their genetics just in general, as the demand has multiplied for regular seed. guess all us stupid yanks figured out what the deal was finally. It is truly an interesting time we live in.

The Smoking Man

-

Lets all try and get along. Life is short.


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## The Mantis (Jul 13, 2012)

Ok, so most of the people hate tga on this thread bc of the herms. Got it.

So, who is the best breeders you've had experience with AND made a record of it online? Words without pics are useless on here imo


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## Guerilla Gardener (Jul 13, 2012)

raiderman said:


> my GOD 30 beans no keeper.


 I went through Jordan of the islands about 8 years ago... got God Bud.. out of 13 seeds, I have the blue pheno, short pheno, green fuelly pheno.. I back crossed them to a male from the pack and am still growing out these seeds. Best luck Ive had with seeds ever, and the strain is a keeper... everyone loves it.


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## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

i may ytry a pac of tiers ,who knows,but yea i had a purple keeper and a green and purple pheno,that was it ,but the yie;d was high jus that doin extra week got a few nanners went ahead and pulled them.they were reg beans to.there is no stress in this growroom.so dunno.


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## Jogro (Jul 13, 2012)

Clankie said:


> I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I am pretty sure that none of Subcool's strains are actually F1 hybrids.


I'd certainly hope not, and just to be clear, when I gave my description earlier of "pollen chucker", I didn't mean to imply that all Subcool does is take two lines cross them, and sell the seeds. 

I'm pretty sure he is still doing some selection, even if its clear he's not doing it over many generations to stabilize the offspring. 



> An F1 hybrid is very strictly the combination of *two true breeding lines*, which results in a plant with all dominant genetics, and the justly revered 'hybrid vigor'.


Well, again, just to be clear here, in classical genetics nomenclature the term F1 is just a way of describing the offspring of any two parents (hybrid or inbred). It refers to any member of the first offspring generation of any cross. 

The F1 is typically a hybrid (if the parents are different) but it might not be (if the parents are similar inbred lines). 

You're right that typically the term "F1 hybrid" is used specifically to refer to the offspring of two true breeding lines, but I don't think it absolutely has to. It depends on the context. 

Anyway, this minor semantic quibble aside, I agree entirely. The "best" F1s come from crossing two inbred lines, and optimally not only will the offspring all look alike or nearly so, but they'll hopefully express the best (or at least some of the best) traits from each of the two parents. 



> When you cross non-stabilized lines, which is generally any hybrid less than F7, the result is actually an F2 hybrid, even if it is first generation in this specific circumstance, and this generation (and all those after) will not have hybrid vigor.


Again, in classical genetics nomenclature, F2 refers to any second generation cross (regardless of the genetic lineage of the parents). Its just a frame of reference from your original crosses. 

What degree of hybrid vigor (or "heterosis", to use the fancy genetics term) the direct offspring of hybrid plants will have will be dependent on the exact genetics involved. 

For example, if each of the original parents are themselves perfect F1 hybrids each formed by crossing two unique inbred lines, and you were to cross these two parents, each of their F1 offspring could look totally different. . .yet each would still be expected to have hybrid vigor. 

In other words if you were to cross (AxB) x (CxD), where A-D were each unique true-breeding strains, every relevant gene locus in the offspring would be heterozygous and you'd expect hybrid vigor in these plants. 

Forgetting for the moment what filial generation (F1, F2, etc) you "should" call these mutts, this is where the phenomenon of polyhybrids comes into play. Generate enough random variation with enough genetic potential, and sure. .. some of these plants "should" be absolutely outstanding. 



> Real seed breeders, if they want to breed from hybrid stock, stabilize the hybrid first to arrive at a true-breeding parent line, and it is from the cross of these stabilized parent lines that will result in an actual F1 hybrid, which generally show relatively little variation (usually 2-4 phenotypes) and contain no paired recessive genes. F2 generations will show the most radically different phenotypes, as they will have the most genetic variation, and will be the first generation to contain paired recessive genes.


Agreeing with this, the problem here is that some of the more interesting phenotypes REQUIRE heterozygosity (kind of like green eyes), and therefore CANNOT be stabilized into true breeding lines. This is part of the reason elite "clone only" strains exist. . .you simply can't backcross them to stabilize them. 

Yes, in theory it should be possible to create unique true-breeding parents that when crossed will reproduce ANY specific genotype (and therefore phenotype) that you like, but in practice, actually doing this can range from difficult to practically impossible. 

Since some of the genetic factors that create interesting plants may not be externally visible, it simply may not be possible to select for them using conventional breeding techniques. Also, not every phenotype is controlled by simple Mendellian genetics where one gene locus controls one phenotype. Some traits may be controlled by multiple genes that can interact in non-obvious ways, again confounding efforts to do normal selection. 

With enough genetic knowledge, and enough selections, and enough generations, these sorts of problems can be overcome to some extent, but again, this sort of thing is what separate the the "real" breeders from the wanna-bes.


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## Doobius1 (Jul 13, 2012)

U think Sub is gonna comment on this thread with all the hate? He has seen other breeders, like Swerve get attacked on here, try to defend themselves, then get gangbanged by the haters. Sad really because we can learn more from the breeders than anyone on here yet the hate keeps them away. I'm sure Sub is reading along. Guys like 15yearsofbreeding troll around after Sub obvo have a game goin. Why else beat a dead horse over and over for 6 months dude? I have 2 weeks to go on a 11 strain run, 6 tga and only nanners so far were on a Female Seeds Bubblegummer. The dankest looking and smelling shit in my room is the TGA gear. Note I did not say the biggest. Its 1/3 size of my Black Widow, Chronic, LA Con and Bubba which are mostly indica though. One thing is a few strains look/smell alike and Im afraid I got too many Space Queen leaning phenos. Time will tell if I become a fanboi or not. I just tell it like I see it and at least put my money where my mouth is. I had a 5 pack of Cheesequake that was 5 males. Not a huge deal just won't ever get to try it is all. I'll spend $50 on a bottle of wine for a nice dinner. I didnt cry all over the 'net about it. I dont agree with the whole 'femmed seeds are for pussies' that he claims is just an inside joke. More like 'femm seeds are for people with plant counts'. Didn't see the need to insult a whole group who need fem. One thing Sub has taught a lot of newb's how to grow better bud (all the while pimpin his shit.... Ya ya I get it). Anyone who runs a business pimps their shit after all


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## althor (Jul 13, 2012)

The Mantis said:


> Ok, so most of the people hate tga on this thread bc of the herms. Got it.
> 
> So, who is the best breeders you've had experience with AND made a record of it online? Words without pics are useless on here imo


 I have been enjoying my Sannie grows. I dont make records of it online but here is a pic from what I cut and trimmed last night.
Either my camera sucks (Olympus 14m) or I suck using it so its a little blurry but you get the idea...


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## Jogro (Jul 13, 2012)

GUN1 said:


> *If subcool knows what hes doing the variation may very well be because he has parent plants homozygous for many different genes.
> In my books that is a good thing.*


If the TGA parent plants were inbred lines ("true breeding"/"homozygotes"), then the F1 offspring would all be uniform, or nearly so, and there would be no issues with phenotype variation. 

But we know this isn't true. 

TGA/Subcool's strains typically all start with hybrid parents, thus explaining why many/most of his line will show a wide variety of phenotypes. We also know this, because he says this. 

"Good"/"Bad" is sort of subjective and it depends what you're after. 

If you don't mind growing lots of plants and doing a bit of selection to find a few exceptional ones, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with unstabilized polyhybrid plants. 

But if your ability to grow large numbers of plants is limited (by budget, space, legal constraints, or other factors) then this sort of polyhybrid lineage may not be for you. 

Ultimately, the question isn't how many individual lines the seeds can be traced back to. . .that's sort of irrelevant. Even most of the stable inbred lines "could" be traced back to many different strains if you went back far enough. 

The question is, in any given pack of seeds how many different phenotypes are you going to see, what variation you can expect between them, and how frequent/rare the "good" ones are. 

That's what separates the true breeders from the "hacks"/"pollen chuckers".


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## CharlieBud (Jul 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Lol theres always one in a crowd! Man youhave no clue the level of growing exp i have! Or how many tga strains i have grown.
> dec 2011 join date hmm right when all the sub issues started so im guessing this is a ghost account! Most likey someone with
> something to gain.



If you are referring to me? Umm, no. Or do you see that all my posts are against TGA? NO 

Stop being a jock ridding fan boi and STFU with those allegations. Seriously, do stick your head in the dead rez for an hour or so. Maybe you will come back making sense.


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## The Mantis (Jul 13, 2012)

Jogro said:


> If the TGA parent plants were inbred lines ("true breeding"/"homozygotes"), then the F1 offspring would all be uniform, or nearly so, and there would be no issues with phenotype variation.
> 
> But we know this isn't true.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you said but i think i remember reading somewhere that f2's will show more variation. so even a breeder under your definition would be a pollen chucker if he releases f2's? i understand you are not saying this, but definitions must hold up. how much variation?

Also, besides althor, no one has mentioned any true 'breeders' that they vouch for from experience and have documentation. Bueller?


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## CharlieBud (Jul 13, 2012)

Doobius1 said:


> U think Sub is gonna comment on this thread with all the hate? He has seen other breeders, like Swerve get attacked on here, try to defend themselves, then get gangbanged by the haters. Sad really because we can learn more from the breeders than anyone on here yet the hate keeps them away. I'm sure Sub is reading along. Guys like 15yearsofbreeding troll around after Sub obvo have a game goin. Why else beat a dead horse over and over for 6 months dude? I have 2 weeks to go on a 11 strain run, 6 tga and only nanners so far were on a Female Seeds Bubblegummer. The dankest looking and smelling shit in my room is the TGA gear. Note I did not say the biggest. Its 1/3 size of my Black Widow, Chronic, LA Con and Bubba which are mostly indica though. One thing is a few strains look/smell alike and Im afraid I got too many Space Queen leaning phenos. Time will tell if I become a fanboi or not. I just tell it like I see it and at least put my money where my mouth is. I had a 5 pack of Cheesequake that was 5 males. Not a huge deal just won't ever get to try it is all. I'll spend $50 on a bottle of wine for a nice dinner. I didnt cry all over the 'net about it. I dont agree with the whole 'femmed seeds are for pussies' that he claims is just an inside joke. More like 'femm seeds are for people with plant counts'. Didn't see the need to insult a whole group who need fem. One thing Sub has taught a lot of newb's how to grow better bud (all the while pimpin his shit.... Ya ya I get it). Anyone who runs a business pimps their shit after all


If fem seeds are for "pussies" as he says, I wonder what "trannys" are for? "asses"?


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## althor (Jul 13, 2012)

^that is funny.


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## The Mantis (Jul 13, 2012)

althor said:


> ^that is funny.


i don't think it's funny. i come here to learn, not to hear insults like on a playground. be logical and understand people can argue without insulting one another and/or calling names.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 13, 2012)

Doobius1 said:


> U think Sub is gonna comment on this thread with all the hate? He has seen other breeders, like Swerve get attacked on here, try to defend themselves, then get gangbanged by the haters. Sad really because we can learn more from the breeders than anyone on here yet the hate keeps them away. I'm sure Sub is reading along. Guys like 15yearsofbreeding troll around after Sub obvo have a game goin. Why else beat a dead horse over and over for 6 months dude? I have 2 weeks to go on a 11 strain run, 6 tga and only nanners so far were on a Female Seeds Bubblegummer. The dankest looking and smelling shit in my room is the TGA gear. Note I did not say the biggest. Its 1/3 size of my Black Widow, Chronic, LA Con and Bubba which are mostly indica though. One thing is a few strains look/smell alike and Im afraid I got too many Space Queen leaning phenos. Time will tell if I become a fanboi or not. I just tell it like I see it and at least put my money where my mouth is. I had a 5 pack of Cheesequake that was 5 males. Not a huge deal just won't ever get to try it is all. I'll spend $50 on a bottle of wine for a nice dinner. I didnt cry all over the 'net about it. I dont agree with the whole 'femmed seeds are for pussies' that he claims is just an inside joke. More like 'femm seeds are for people with plant counts'. Didn't see the need to insult a whole group who need fem. One thing Sub has taught a lot of newb's how to grow better bud (all the while pimpin his shit.... Ya ya I get it). Anyone who runs a business pimps their shit after all


someone who stands behind thier products will.. They wouldnt care about attacks as the product will be doing the talking.

For instance look at swerve he gets attacked on every forum but yet he still stands behind his product and offers to make it right mint be a while and he might talk shit doing it but it gets done. People talk about cc gear going hermie but yet look how many breeders are using cc stock to make new crosses.. Look at karma genetics all his kush strains are used from a male sfv og from swerve


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## sirstankadank (Jul 13, 2012)

Just to clear up any TGA smashing we might have started, or proliferated. Sub and TGA grows are well executed, professional, maybe not lab grade but well put together. TGA carries good genetics, and even though we personally do not purchase expensive TGA genetics anymore, our leftover TGA gear Apollo 13 x Vortex (which has been cloned from clones of clones unfortunately; mother is forever afk...) is still running, not as pretty or virile as they would have been maybe but still ok, and we wanted Bros grimm genes. 

On the other hand, after having a miserable 5 months of nothing but traumatic grow experiences, I doubt I or any of my guys will ever purchase TGA gear, at those prices you can essentially buy several 10 packs of seeds, cull through and find more production worthy Parent stock than you would have with a single TGA 5 pack. Not to mention, we have already asked to be test growers and were completely ignored by TGA. We do not hold a grudge against TGA or sub, but things could have been handled better on their end, on many fronts. Either way, no hard feelings from us in particular, just clearing the air.

Evol Bart

-

Your Momz!


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## wheezer (Jul 13, 2012)

Well, I showed the pics of the AO hermie, and spoke about some others, and shared my thoughts on the stability of the lines they have. Now lets see the good side, cause there is a good side here ya know......you can find some dank plants! I don't think anyone here can argue that this Qrazy Train, and Chernobyl look lovely, even with my shitty photography. These are just phenos that were in a 5 pack, no chosen special phenos or anything. Hope they don't hermie at the last minute! haha


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## madcityblazer (Jul 13, 2012)

Sub has the best genetics. I haven't had any problems with his genetics in the last five years. I know a lot of other people who would say the same. I would attribute most of this to "operator error". I would try to look at other factors in your setups because these genetics are the definition of excellence and stability.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 13, 2012)

Lmao^^^^ how is it stable if you have 10-20 different phenos in one pack?
Most people here have labs where shit is dialed in and somehow subs gear is the only one herming? Operator error my ass!

I wish I can show y'all how many threads subcool deleted because people are seeing this bullshit!
Best genetics seriously? He takes other people genetics and put it together how does he have the best genetics?


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 13, 2012)

wow talk about ignorant the best genetics? he crosses other peoples hard work and charges top dollar was this a joke or are you really that nieve


madcityblazer said:


> Sub has the best genetics. I haven't had any problems with his genetics in the last five years. I know a lot of other people who would say the same. I would attribute most of this to "operator error". I would try to look at other factors in your setups because these genetics are the definition of excellence and stability.


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## blindbaby (Jul 13, 2012)

my jtr and pandora hermed. i quit the gear.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 13, 2012)

Operator error must be alot of operators errors then


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 13, 2012)

wheezer said:


> View attachment 2253870View attachment 2253871View attachment 2253872View attachment 2253874View attachment 2253875View attachment 2253876View attachment 2253877View attachment 2253878Well, I showed the pics of the AO hermie, and spoke about some others, and shared my thoughts on the stability of the lines they have. Now lets see the good side, cause there is a good side here ya know......you can find some dank plants! I don't think anyone here can argue that this Qrazy Train, and Chernobyl look lovely, even with my shitty photography. These are just phenos that were in a 5 pack, no chosen special phenos or anything. Hope they don't hermie at the last minute! haha


I can't argue with that those girls look killer but one thing for sure is even nirvana has some dank bud the same as most breeders do. I just think tga is over hyped, over priced and for damn sure not stable. but those are some nice plants for sure and yes you can get killer smoke from tga seeds. but you can also make a cross on your own and get dank bud.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 13, 2012)

People that have been smoking for their whole lives when they try my querkle they tell me its the best weed they ever smoked in their life. Not only that but it commands top dollar. Theres something to be said about that. If i havent been smoking that often all i need is one hit of querkle and im toast. You get a warm sensation that rushes over your whole body and makes it go kinda numb and the euphoria is awesome.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 13, 2012)

Le say the same about my Tahoe and pre98 bubba which on a potent y level is way stronger!


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## doc111 (Jul 13, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> Let's hear someone say cheeze quake was weak? I did
> Lets hear someone say they got hermies in subs gear? I did
> lets hear someone say they didn't find a keeper in 30 seeds but yet found hermies? I did
> lets see how sub reacts to threads about his gear in his section when he hears about hermies? I did and yu know what he does? Close threads and deletes them lmao.


I typically don't weigh in on "breeder" hate or praise threads. It's so subjective that it's almost pointless to even talk about. That said, I have mixed feelings. I've only ever bought one pack of TGA gear; Vortex. I popped 2 seeds, got 1 male, 1 female. I tossed the male and grew out the female. It was some excellent bud. It yielded like crap but the bud was dank and definitely top shelf! My very limited experience with TGA genetics has been mostly positive. However, a while back I was reading one of his threads where he talks about using sucanat. Being a good scientist, I was intrigued and wanted to learn more. He mentioned that you had to use it with citric acid in order for it to "work" properly. I simply asked him how he uses it (what ratio of citric acid to sucanat, where to find citric acid, etc.). He then proceeded to jump all over my shit and basically made me feel like a fucking retard! My question was in NO WAY sarcastic or dickish. I simply wanted to know more. He deleted all of my posts, even the ones where I apologize to him for offending him (if I even did so)! I was blown away and pretty much swore I would never give someone like that even ONE SINGLE PENNY more of my hard earned money!


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 13, 2012)

That's just a question u asked imagine what th people who had something negative to say about his gear. Delete and lock!


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## CharlieBud (Jul 13, 2012)

madcityblazer said:


> Sub has the best genetics. I haven't had any problems with his genetics in the last five years. I know a lot of other people who would say the same. I would attribute most of this to "operator error". I would try to look at other factors in your setups because these genetics are the definition of excellence and stability.


And I get called out as a shill. ROFLMAO


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 13, 2012)

How a business man talks to a client can make or break a business.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 13, 2012)

How he talks and handles the issues being presented can make or break the company


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## The Mantis (Jul 13, 2012)

doc111 said:


> I typically don't weigh in on "breeder" hate or praise threads. It's so subjective that it's almost pointless to even talk about. That said, I have mixed feelings. I've only ever bought one pack of TGA gear; Vortex. I popped 2 seeds, got 1 male, 1 female. I tossed the male and grew out the female. It was some excellent bud. It yielded like crap but the bud was dank and definitely top shelf! My very limited experience with TGA genetics has been mostly positive. However, a while back I was reading one of his threads where he talks about using sucanat. Being a good scientist, I was intrigued and wanted to learn more. He mentioned that you had to use it with citric acid in order for it to "work" properly. I simply asked him how he uses it (what ratio of citric acid to sucanat, where to find citric acid, etc.). He then proceeded to jump all over my shit and basically made me feel like a fucking retard! My question was in NO WAY sarcastic or dickish. I simply wanted to know more. He deleted all of my posts, even the ones where I apologize to him for offending him (if I even did so)! I was blown away and pretty much swore I would never give someone like that even ONE SINGLE PENNY more of my hard earned money!


I would prob be the same if that happened to me. he def seems to get pretty emotional at times. and as a paying customer, who needs that?

i have already been sucked in (to all the marketing from all breeders) and have a nice sized stash of genetics. vortex right now is one of my keepers and will be unltil i find something to replace it. 2 phenos - one big yielding and the other more fire but less yield. sorry to the breeders out there, but i have no brand loyalty and will only grow what i deam is best.

but, difference between sub 99.9% of the other people on here (including me), is that he's putting himself out there and not hiding behind a computer monitor. that's balls and i respect him and everyone else in the weed game that risks their lives and freedom to distribute genetics (good or bad, breeder or pollen chucker, charity worker or overpriced). 

my hats off to all you people


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## doc111 (Jul 13, 2012)

The Mantis said:


> I would prob be the same if that happened to me. he def seems to get pretty emotional at times. and as a paying customer, who needs that?
> 
> i have already been sucked in (to all the marketing from all breeders) and have a nice sized stash of genetics. vortex right now is one of my keepers and will be unltil i find something to replace it. 2 phenos - one big yielding and the other more fire but less yield. sorry to the breeders out there, but i have no brand loyalty and will only grow what i deam is best.
> 
> ...


I am a firm believer in sharing my experiences. It's virtually the only way we can keep these guys honest. I can't bitch about his genetics, but his customer service leaves a LOT to be desired IMO. I would even be willing to accept an apology, but doubt I will ever get one. Everyone gets stressed out at times, but few of us are revered like rock stars. He seems to have FAR to many of these types of "bad days". Being in the public eye, one doesn't have the luxury of having a "bad day". I'm a very laid back and forgiving person, but I have a REAL PROBLEM with a guy who won't even accept an apology, but simply beats his chest and deletes my posts. NOT cool IMO!


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## doc111 (Jul 13, 2012)

doc111 said:


> I typically don't weigh in on "breeder" hate or praise threads. It's so subjective that it's almost pointless to even talk about. *That said, I have mixed feelings. I've only ever bought one pack of TGA gear; Vortex. I popped 2 seeds, got 1 male, 1 female. I tossed the male and grew out the female. It was some excellent bud. It yielded like crap but the bud was dank and definitely top shelf! My very limited experience with TGA genetics has been mostly positive. *However, a while back I was reading one of his threads where he talks about using sucanat. Being a good scientist, I was intrigued and wanted to learn more. He mentioned that you had to use it with citric acid in order for it to "work" properly. I simply asked him how he uses it (what ratio of citric acid to sucanat, where to find citric acid, etc.). He then proceeded to jump all over my shit and basically made me feel like a fucking retard! My question was in NO WAY sarcastic or dickish. I simply wanted to know more. He deleted all of my posts, even the ones where I apologize to him for offending him (if I even did so)! I was blown away and pretty much swore I would never give someone like that even ONE SINGLE PENNY more of my hard earned money!





stak said:


> And how is this relevant to the thread subject? What exactly does any of this have to do with the stablility of TGA gear?




I highlighted the portion which deals with "the stability of TGA gear". The rest of it, admittedly, has NOTHING to do with "the stability of TGA gear". I saw several posted comments in this thread about how he "handles" his customers (complaining or not). It WAS and still IS relevant to the discussion at hand. Thanks for playing thread police though! 

Look, I am not hating on the man. Just relaying my experiences. I was completely honest and call 'em like I see 'em. No dissing his genetics (I'm actually quite happy with my Vortex keeper). I DO apologize if you don't like what I have to say. I stand by it though.


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## shagalicious (Jul 13, 2012)

Medshed said:


> I'm sure the OP had good intentions when starting this thread but unfortunately it has been rendered useless by the inevitable TGA fanboi/hater pissing match. If the OP is still watching, my suggestion for him is to comb through some actual TGA grow journals and get real, unfiltered info:
> https://www.rollitup.org/search.php?searchid=21331304
> 
> FWIW I've grown (and documented) Querkle, Pandora's Box, Dairy Queen, Jack The Ripper, and am currently growing Qush. Pandora's Box will always remain in my garden. I only flowered one of them (thanks to our 3 plant limits) but have followed a few other grows that showed similar results to mine. Querkle showed 2 phenos from 2 plants and both were tasty, but I've since found better plants in the indica dominant/euphoric category. Dairy Queen showed 2 phenos from 2 plants and both were tasty too but I grew a tolerance quickly to her and won't grow her again, even though Ilove the high profile. JTR was OK based on the 1 pheno/plant I grew but I'd rather wait the extra 3 weeks for the Kali Mist high profile, which will also always be in my garden. Querkle and Dairy Queen both threw a couple of nanners VERY late in flower but did not grow balls or release pollen so I don't count that against them, nor would I dis any plant that did the same. JTR was fully seeded but that was my fault due to an experiment gone bad with Colloidal silver.


great info - thank you very much

i'm done with it - buying some of shanti's gear and making my own lol


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 13, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> If you are referring to me? Umm, no. Or do you see that all my posts are against TGA? NO
> 
> Stop being a jock ridding fan boi and STFU with those allegations. Seriously, do stick your head in the dead rez for an hour or so. Maybe you will come back making sense.


Lol relaxe bro you a jar have the same join date! Wasnt talking about you.


----------



## CharlieBud (Jul 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Lol relaxe bro you a jar have the same join date! Wasnt talking about you.


Cool then, was just too close to my post. Was a total "WTF who am I shilling for?" moment. 

Especially as I trust no one, and dislike most. ROFLMAO


----------



## ActionHanks (Jul 13, 2012)

I have a friend who only grows TGA, DNA, and Cali Connect, he wont give lower breeders a second glance over, and he's kind of a tool lol.

I have never had a hermie, and i run "lesser" breeders like, KC brains, female seeds, nirvana, etc whatever im getting a deal on. He on the other hand, over the course of the year has had 2 or 3 hermie (that he's told me about) not specifying what breeder however. 

I personally think all "famous breeders" are kind of douche bags. Arjan, subcool, Don, Aaron, etc they're basically the same guy just born in different time periods lol. I personally feel like some of these guys are purely commercial. Why not, they've finally figured out a way to make a living dealing in a relatively illegal market atm. 

Ive smoked some TGA vortex, and querkle before, and i was impressed. I wasnt blown away though lol, I've had better results from some lower breeders, though it could have been my friend's growing abilities. All and all, the gear is good, but its over priced. Just watch weed nerd and if you cant tell by the music that TGA is kind of a toolbag there's something wrong with you haha.


----------



## Nightmarecreature (Jul 13, 2012)

I have only grown Vortex out of the TGA lineup and it's dank! There are a lot of variables. I have seen strains with exactly the same pheno smoke like shit. Example Barney's Farm LSD one was potent and full of trichs, the other looked like home grown hay and did not get you high. I'm not a BF fan at all but if I had only tried the latter of the two I would be warning people. I think this applies to all vendors. How it's grown, how it's cured and what pheno you pick makes a huge difference.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

Nightmarecreature said:


> I have only grown Vortex out of the TGA lineup and it's dank! There are a lot of variables. I have seen strains with exactly the same pheno smoke like shit. Example Barney's Farm LSD one was potent and full of trichs, the other looked like home grown hay and did not get you high. I'm not a BF fan at all but if I had only tried the latter of the two I would be warning people. I think this applies to all vendors. How it's grown, how it's cured and what pheno you pick makes a huge difference.


i know my crirtical kush freebie is amazing plant.


----------



## doc111 (Jul 13, 2012)

Ok, I've been getting nasty vm's from a certain member because of my initial post in this thread. Evidently, just letting people know about my experience makes me a "worthless troll".


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

doc111 said:


> Ok, I've been getting nasty vm's from a certain member because of my initial post in this thread. Evidently, just letting people know about my experience makes me a "worthless troll".


i thot trolls jus ran the bridges,lol.


----------



## doc111 (Jul 13, 2012)

raiderman said:


> i thot trolls jus ran the bridges,lol.


...........and evidently saying something that someone disagrees with qualifies a person for "worthless troll" status. lol!


----------



## wyteberrywidow (Jul 13, 2012)

Thwart certain person is just but hurt because his word dnt mean nothing after he was caught lying!


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

are they buying yure seeds and payin yure bills.wish theyde send me a fun letter.


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## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

doc111 said:


> ...........and evidently saying something that someone disagrees with qualifies a person for "worthless troll" status. lol!


ea thread is a opinion based analysis based on breeders and strains, good and bad.cant get mad only glad.


----------



## Kite High (Jul 13, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> I could go on and on and on and on with these very same sources that prove just who's full of it here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you are correct....proves you are an idiot that has never grown a thing...just run around parroting ...polly wanna cracker bitch?


----------



## GUN1 (Jul 13, 2012)

Jogro said:


> If the TGA parent plants were inbred lines ("true breeding"/"homozygotes"), then the F1 offspring would all be uniform, or nearly so, and there would be no issues with phenotype variation.
> 
> But we know this isn't true.
> 
> ...


*The part I have highlighted is not true. some recessive traits have hets that may drastically change the plants traits **(codominant)**. Some codominant traits homozygous form may be detrimental but the codominant form may be very desirable. This is when breeding gets tricky and many phenotypes can be produced in an F1 breeding when codominance is present.
*


----------



## nattybongo (Jul 13, 2012)

lolz


----------



## GUN1 (Jul 13, 2012)

No high horse here if I can learn something I'm all for it its merely conversing. If one or both of us can learn something then its worth while. I will quite happily be schooled.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

learn this for yrs i bot dutch passion bluemoonshine regs,5 girls 5 males every time.. wy with tga more males at least wat i've seen and this GDP goin around.


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 13, 2012)

Some of you people are complete retards. Being mad at a breeder because they got more males in their regular seeds. SMFH Once again, if anything, that is your grower error. Stop blaming it on other people and pick up a cannabis botany book.


----------



## skunkd0c (Jul 13, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> No such tide has turned except in your mind. The numbers who still praise TGA faaaaaaaaar, did you hear that? I said, faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the few wanna' be breeders on here. Let's hear someone actually try to say Vortex isn't really that good, or bash Qrazy Train. Most all review sites claim they're among the best of the best. They all TGA paid mouthpieces, or what?


Can i have this again in English, please ? 
i did try to make sense of it
i think your enthusiasm got the better of you


----------



## GUN1 (Jul 13, 2012)

raiderman said:


> learn this for yrs i bot dutch passion bluemoonshine regs,5 girls 5 males every time.. wy with tga more males at least wat i've seen and this GDP goin around.


There may be reasons that have nothing to do with the genetetics. In some species of animal things like temperature can effect the sex of the young.
It would be very hard to pinpoint what is causing an increase in male seed and alot of work would have to be done to find out.Even hermaphrodites are a natural occurrence and most are not necessarily to do with "mutt" breeding. Alot of flowering plants have hermaphrodites I believe it is over 70% of flowering plant species. It is ensuring survival in the wild.

Maybe you just got an unlucky pick of seed


----------



## CharlieBud (Jul 13, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> Some of you people are complete retards. Being mad at a breeder because they got more males in their regular seeds. SMFH Once again, if anything, that is your grower error. Stop blaming it on other people and pick up a cannabis botany book.



Or even better, a non-cannabis botany book with training wheels.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> Some of you people are complete retards.
> 
> 
> > have u looked in the mirror lately.
> ...


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> Or even better, a non-cannabis botany book with training wheels.


DEA,lol,yure a joke,,,,i tried training wheels with tga didnt work sorry,lol.decided to grow monster plants.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

GUN1 said:


> There may be reasons that have nothing to do with the genetetics. In some species of animal things like temperature can effect the sex of the young.
> It would be very hard to pinpoint what is causing an increase in male seed and alot of work would have to be done to find out.Even hermaphrodites are a natural occurrence and most are not necessarily to do with "mutt" breeding. Alot of flowering plants have hermaphrodites I believe it is over 70% of flowering plant species. It is ensuring survival in the wild.
> 
> Maybe you just got an unlucky pick of seed


it was only with them and yes i did prob get a bad pac.i do fems DNa and grow and a bedroom packed with baseball size nugs.
i absolutely dont believe that. a male is a male and a female is a girl.cant twist


----------



## althor (Jul 13, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> Some of you people are complete retards. Being mad at a breeder because they got more males in their regular seeds. SMFH Once again, if anything, that is your grower error. Stop blaming it on other people and pick up a cannabis botany book.


I am one of those who has gotten a ridiculous amount of males out of sub's gear. I repeat I have had no hermies, and the finished product has been pretty good IMO. But I have gotten a ridiculous amount of males, so you are saying its grower error? I could possibly believe that, but then I have a 70% or higher female rate from every other breeder I have ever grown. As an example, out of my HGS mix pack 6 out of 7 have been female. I thought it was bad luck, but I keep reading others saying basically the same thing. Go through 10 seeds and get 1 or 2 females. I am very interested in why that is.


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 13, 2012)

raiderman said:


> Da Almighty Jew said:
> 
> 
> > Some of you people are complete retards.
> ...


----------



## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 13, 2012)

althor said:


> I am one of those who has gotten a ridiculous amount of males out of sub's gear. I repeat I have had no hermies, and the finished product has been pretty good IMO. But I have gotten a ridiculous amount of males, so you are saying its grower error? I could possibly believe that, but then I have a 70% or higher female rate from every other breeder I have ever grown. As an example, out of my HGS mix pack 6 out of 7 have been female. I thought it was bad luck, but I keep reading others saying basically the same thing. Go through 10 seeds and get 1 or 2 females. I am very interested in why that is.


Bad luck... A seed is a seed is a seed. 50% you get male or female.. Things that can influence are temperatures.


----------



## CharlieBud (Jul 13, 2012)

raiderman said:


> DEA,lol,yure a joke,,,,i tried training wheels with tga didnt work sorry,lol.decided to grow monster plants.


"Monster plants" are not much taller then a clothes dryer? OK


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 13, 2012)

My issue doesnt lie with hermie traits or low germ rates or even high male ratios! This all come with breeders who push
tons of seeds to the public. My issues lie with attitude from the breeder to the customer, not all of us are beginners in this
game! So why treat us as such, i think listening to customers reports on issue is valued info and shouldnt be returned in
the form of a slap to the face! I hold no il will to sub or for that matter any other breeder. I just think the way issues are
handled are wrong.


----------



## GUN1 (Jul 13, 2012)

raiderman said:


> it was only with them and yes i did prob get a bad pac.i do fems DNa and grow and a bedroom packed with baseball size nugs.
> i absolutely dont believe that. a male is a male and a female is a girl.cant twist


I am not trying to change your beliefs they are yours but many species not only plants will change sex if there isn't a male present. I'm not saying it happens all the time but it is possible. If there is a basic mendelian genetic that's causing it it would be easily bred out of lines as it keeps randomly popping up I would say its more of a polymorphic condition. 
The statement about flowering plants being hermaphrodites wasn't referring only to weed I was referring to all the worlds flowering plants and it is believed that the worlds dioecous (seperate male and female) plants came from hermaphrodite ancestors. 
My belief is that cannabis is a polymorphic subdioecious, hermaphrodite or monoecious plant that has bred to be near dioecious but are not.
Once again thats my belief and if anyone can correct me I would be happy to learn.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

GUN1 said:


> I am not trying to change your beliefs they are yours but many species not only plants will change sex if there isn't a male present. I'm not saying it happens all the time but it is possible. If there is a basic mendelian genetic that's causing it it would be easily bred out of lines as it keeps randomly popping up I would say its more of a polymorphic condition.
> The statement about flowering plants being hermaphrodites wasn't referring only to weed I was referring to all the worlds flowering plants and it is believed that the worlds dioecous (seperate male and female) plants came from hermaphrodite ancestors.
> My belief is that cannabis is a polymorphic subdioecious, hermaphrodite or monoecious plant that has bred to be near dioecious but are not.
> Once again thats my belief and if anyone can correct me I would be happy to learn.


yu speak with a man of knowldge jus that i ave the perfect growroom imo,ac,exhaust 78F temp 24/7no light leaks,no under waters ,no overwaters..i'll go with the bad pac theory,lol.but i'm stuck on fems, for yrs since they first started stablizing them..yure pretty sharp dude.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> My issue doesnt lie with hermie traits or low germ rates or even high male ratios! This all come with breeders who push
> tons of seeds to the public. My issues lie with attitude from the breeder to the customer, not all of us are beginners in this
> game! So why treat us as such, i think listening to customers reports on issue is valued info and shouldnt be returned in
> the form of a slap to the face! I hold no il will to sub or for that matter any other breeder. I just think the way issues are
> handled are wrong.


i definately agree with u with breeders jus chunkin untested beans for 100. to 125.00 for 10 regs if thats what u mean.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> "Monster plants" are not much taller then a clothes dryer? OK


sorry that was my shit plant .
is this smallenuff or feel frree to demonstrate yure skills.rdr.


----------



## Buck123 (Jul 13, 2012)

Pretty man!!


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 13, 2012)

That's not a baseball nug


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## raiderman (Jul 13, 2012)

thanx brothas,some ppl ave away of bringing out of yu,lol.


----------



## Jogro (Jul 13, 2012)

The Mantis said:


> I agree with everything you said but i think i remember reading somewhere that f2's will show more variation. so even a breeder under your definition would be a pollen chucker if he releases f2's?


Yes, assuming inbred parents, F2s will show maximal variation. 

To answer your question, "real" breeders won't release F2 hybrids, for precisely this reason.


----------



## cotchept (Jul 13, 2012)

I've had mostly good results with TGA. My Querkle did throw a few nanners and I found some of those tiny premature seeds, which are a lot more annoying than fully developed ones. That was mostly due to errors I made. Other than that JTR and Querkle were great. Running Vortex now. It seems to be very sensitive to nutes and hard to clone. We'll see how she goes.


----------



## Damnecro (Jul 13, 2012)

Querkle was fine
Agent orange spit nanners at 120days ... don't aSK
ace of spades was fine
timewreck is fine
jack the ripper is fine
space dawg is fine
plushberry died in the seedling phase.


led veg / led bud


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## Jogro (Jul 13, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *Jogro*
> 
> If the TGA parent plants were inbred lines ("true breeding"/"homozygotes"), then the F1 offspring would all be uniform, or nearly so, and there would be no issues with phenotype variation.





GUN1 said:


> *The part I have highlighted is not true. some recessive traits have hets that may drastically change the plants traits **(codominant)**. Some codominant traits homozygous form may be detrimental but the codominant form may be very desirable. This is when breeding gets tricky and many phenotypes can be produced in an F1 breeding when codominance is present.
> *


I posted earlier that in some cases heterozygosity is necessary to achieve certain phenotypes. So I agree with the first part. Absolutely, it can be the case where phenotype AB is drastically different than either AA or BB, and as you say, this phenomenon can complicate selection. As I mentioned earlier, some traits aren't controlled via single allelles, either, so you may not see 25-50-25% or 75-25% "Mendel's peas" ratios in the offspring either. 

If either parent (let alone both) isn't really "true breeding" (eg its a hybrid) then you can expect all sorts of genetic variation in the F1 offspring. In reality, some of the so-called "true breeding" lines aren't really, and they'll throw off some phenotypic variation, which can be amplified in crossing. 

But I still don't see how its possible to get significant phenotypic variation in an F1 cross from authentic true breeding parents. 

The term "true breeding" implies that every phenotypically relevant gene locus in the strain is homozygous. In other words, by definition each "true breeding" parent should contain two IDENTICAL copies of every relevant gene. 

If you cross two such lines, every offspring will necessarily inherit one identical copy of every gene from each parent and will be genetically uniform (or again, nearly so). Hence the term "TRUE BREEDING". 

In other words, if for example you were to cross AABBCCDD x aabbccdd (two true breeding lines), all the offspring will be genotypically AaBbCcDd. 

Now, because Aa might not look phenotypically like AA or aa (etc), these AaBbCcDd F1 plants may express a bunch of traits that aren't seen in either parent. Out of nowhere you have "new" traits not seen in either plant, and this is part of the so-called "hybrid vigor."

But because these F1 plants should all be genetically identical (or nearly so) each plant from this generation should be nearly the same as every other from the same generation. IE, there should be minimal phenotypic variation. 

If you were to then cross two of these F1 AaBbCcDd plants into an F2, all bets would be off. You would potentially end up with literally 81 distinct genotypes in various ratios (every possible subset variation of AA, Aa, aa, BB, Bb, bb, etc), and each genotype could, in theory, have its own distinct phenotype. 

In reality, since strains are defined by dozens of relevant allelles, not just four like my deliberately abbreviated example above, F2s produced this way can literally have THOUSANDS of different genotypes.

In practice, many of these different genotypes probably won't result in different phenotypes (eg if D is dominant over d, an AABbCcDD plant and a AABbCCDd plant may be phenotypically identical). But the genetic variation you can't see in "hidden" heterozygotes may come out to bite you later if you try to use these hybridized plants as a basis for further breeding.


----------



## GUN1 (Jul 14, 2012)

My apologies Jogro I hadn't read the sentence properly you were right in a "true breeding" homozygous cross the F1s would be very stable.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 14, 2012)

Jogro said:


> Yes, assuming inbred parents, F2s will show maximal variation.
> 
> To answer your question, "real" breeders won't release F2 hybrids, for precisely this reason.


outlaw genetics F2s are the most awsome plants yule see on this side of eternity.2 phenos.that i dont under stand .


----------



## doc111 (Jul 14, 2012)

raiderman said:


> outlaw genetics F2s are the most awsome plants yule see on this side of eternity.2 phenos.that i dont under stand .


Most of Joey Weed's gear is F2's and it's outstanding IMO!!!!!


----------



## raiderman (Jul 14, 2012)

i love joey weed,wheres his store ?hempdepot used to.


----------



## Clankie (Jul 14, 2012)

raiderman said:


> i love joey weed,wheres his store ?hempdepot used to.


I would really like someone to prove me wrong, but I am pretty sure you can't get his gear anywhere anymore.


----------



## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 14, 2012)

still no sub? i guess he's too busy moving his 5x5 grow and BREEDING ROOMS. we still here no delets? cant believe this. he's one to hide the truth ABOUT HIS UNSTABLE COMPANY and not one deleted post.


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## wyteberrywidow (Jul 14, 2012)

He can't delete this as he only can do that in his section.


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## raiderman (Jul 14, 2012)

but i will say that wat i did get was uniform and beautiful as described..its jus that i got a bad pac once.have considered a time or 2 to give it another try...but if a persons gro room isnt timed in no tellin wat yule get.ppl think i came to smash tga was wrong.i love his qurkle and got 6 girls once.but thatwas a few yrs ago,i dont know at wat his gears like now.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 14, 2012)

Clankie said:


> I would really like someone to prove me wrong, but I am pretty sure you can't get his gear anywhere anymore.


doesnt sound good.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 14, 2012)

wyteberrywidow said:


> He can't delete this as he only can do that in his section.


only Pot Roast can delete threads and i dont see it coming.


----------



## wyteberrywidow (Jul 14, 2012)

Me either as we are not doijg anything wrong and mods are in this thread so anything the doesn't seem fit will get edited,deleted whatever needs to be done.

I know this thread got out of hand a little bit but those people have since calmed down


----------



## raiderman (Jul 14, 2012)

i didnt read back to far to see the trolling..i would like to get his deep purple to go with my violator kush under one light...i believe the plushberry is jus a sensitive plant like my fem purps and needs to be in the rite hands for success.dunno,thats jus me.


----------



## Trulife69 (Jul 15, 2012)

there really wasnt much trolling..Just people either not into tga or that fanboys who say they dont mind picking off a few bananas through flower while searching for a stable mom


----------



## Jogro (Jul 15, 2012)

Its my understanding that "Joey Weed" is defunct. 



raiderman said:


> outlaw genetics F2s are the most awsome plants yule see on this side of eternity.2 phenos.that i dont under stand .


Again, to be clear here, how stable F2 plants are depends entirely on the genetics of the parent strains. 

If you're crossing polyhybrid F1s, you're going to get a gazillion phenotypes in the F2. 

But if you're crossing two plants from the same inbred line then the F1s, F2s, F3s, etc, should all be substantially similar to each other. 

So if you made your F2 by starting with someone else's stabilized or mostly stable line, then crossing two plants to make seeds, you may see very little phenotype variety in the F2. 

Also, if your F2 is a backcross of an F1 and a parent, or another cross between plants that already have highly similar genetics, then you may also see a relatively limited number of phenotypes.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 15, 2012)

Jogro said:


> Its my understanding that "Joey Weed" is defunct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i understand.thanx.rdr.


----------



## doc111 (Jul 16, 2012)

raiderman said:


> i love joey weed,wheres his store ?hempdepot used to.


Hempdepot used to carry his gear, but I believe he is out of the biz.


----------



## Nitegazer (Jul 16, 2012)

Just another grower of TGA gear with my observations. I grew out 10 Vortex and 5 Jilly Bean. 100% Germ, and ended up with 53% female: 5 female Vortex and 3 female Jilly Bean. 

I'm still working on my grow room, so there have been numerous 'light leak' events. All the 'walls' of my grow room can open, and there are still some gaps for light to get in. The space is in the basement, but light from the basement windows and occasionally a light left on in the basement (lame on my part) has leaked into the room. I am starting the 6th week of my grow and have experienced NO male flowers. 

I will say that there has been tremendous variation in the phenos. Two of the Vortex and one of the Jilly Bean are very tall and leggy with huge internodal distance and poor yeild. Two of the Vortex and Two of the Jilly Bean are outstanding plants, frosty with trichs, lots of branching and good to very good yeilds (so far). The rest of the plants are so-so, with either long internodes, fair yeilds, or moderate trich development. Of course nothing has been harvested, so some of the 'so-so' plants might end up producing a fabulous flavor or high.

In summary I have no hermie issues (when I was almost asking for trouble), but neither strain is consistent at all. I am just fine with this, since I'm just looking for a couple of mothers anyway, and a couple of the plants look very good so far. I would not recommend growing from seed for production, but there is certainly dank to be had. Check my sig to see pictures of a few of the best plants. Note that this is a sloppy grow-- I'd usually go with a scrog, but can't do that until I find my mothers.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 16, 2012)

i do dna get freakin monsters,not much variation,very stable.big yields.


----------



## Nitegazer (Jul 16, 2012)

Both of my DNA Lemon Skunk (fems) are solid plants. One of them is a tall beast, but it still has lots of trichs and will be producing a good yeild. The other is just a beautiful plant, very lush and frosty.


----------



## ink the world (Jul 16, 2012)

doc111 said:


> Hempdepot used to carry his gear, but I believe he is out of the biz.


He gut busted a little while back. Got ratted out by a neighbor... I think there's info on it here somewhere.


----------



## raiderman (Jul 16, 2012)

ink the world said:


> He gut busted a little while back. Got ratted out by a neighbor... I think there's info on it here somewhere.


i figured thats wat happened.hate to hear that.rdr.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 17, 2012)

Well i put the axe to the AO just geting to stupid with nanners and some were spreading pollen 
well off the jack cleaner 2 maybe get better luck there


----------



## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 17, 2012)

who ever made a cross with tga seeds?


----------



## gudkarma (Jul 17, 2012)

with TGA gear , i know of , heaven scent pharms , alphakronik , & breeders choice (for example)


----------



## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 17, 2012)

gudkarma said:


> with TGA gear , i know of , heaven scent pharms , alphakronik , & breeders choice (for example)


notice u didnt say dna, thseeds, greenhouse seeds, serious seeds, cali connection, big buddah nor barney's. also mr. nice seeds, sensi nor dutch passion.......i wonder y none of those companies never released a tga cross....lol. i'll tell u y.....low potency, unstable genetics and nobody likes subcool. tga is the greenhouse of north america....no real seed company would use their genetics.


----------



## Amaximus (Jul 17, 2012)

FFS, This thread is still going?


----------



## str8sativa (Jul 17, 2012)

querkle day 30






15yearsofbreeding said:


> notice u didnt say dna, thseeds, greenhouse seeds, serious seeds, cali connection, big buddah nor barney's. also mr. nice seeds, sensi nor dutch passion.......i wonder y none of those companies never released a tga cross....lol. i'll tell u y.....low potency, unstable genetics and nobody likes subcool. tga is the greenhouse of north america....no real seed company would use their genetics.


every one of those breeders suck balls except for dna genetics. and they dont use his shit because they have there own strains there working with which i would say are on opposite sides of the flavor scale, with dna and subcool anyway wouldnt bother with any of the others.. and my querkle didnt hermie on me and is super frosty the lemon pheno so its staying around


----------



## str8sativa (Jul 17, 2012)

querkle has frost out to the tips of fan leaves in the early twentys


----------



## WaxxyNuggets (Jul 17, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> notice u didnt say dna, thseeds, greenhouse seeds, serious seeds, cali connection, big buddah nor barney's. also mr. nice seeds, sensi nor dutch passion.......i wonder y none of those companies never released a tga cross....lol. i'll tell u y.....low potency, unstable genetics and nobody likes subcool. tga is the greenhouse of north america....no real seed company would use their genetics.


The more you talk the more it sounds like you just want to bash sub.... 
Check hovering's threads and see his testing done on tga strains... low potency? come on man.. 
I have only grown out 2 tga strains, and currently have my third in flower, none of which hermied and the first 2 were came out pretty potent/tasty.
I've had the pleasure of smoking dq, grown by someone better than me, and it had to be some of the dankest stuff i've gotten my hands on..

If you dont like unstable phenotype f2's, don't buy em. Is that not simple enough?


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 17, 2012)

You ever hear the term " any publicity is good publicity??" holy fuck you all made TGA popular as fuck! on the Internets largest weed forum


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## Grojak (Jul 17, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> who ever made a cross with tga seeds?



First I in no way support or even like TGA/Subcool, but ignorance is bliss. One of the best "small time" breeders and one of his best 2 strains "Lifesaver and LSD" use Jacks Cleaner as a parent. Don't preach if you don't know


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 17, 2012)

his genetics are the real deal, people are just mad he doesn't take his f1's and bx the best phenotypes or make more stable f2's/f3's/f4's aside from his spacequeen/jill f2's and spacebomb, i guess Pandora's box is a Space Dude Bx, since he used it to make JTR and then used it on a jtr fem to make Pandora's box, and it is more stable imo.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 17, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> potency, unstable genetics and nobody likes subcool. tga is the greenhouse of north america....no real seed company would use their genetics.


I don't think greenhouse is that bad. lol


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 17, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> You ever hear the term " any publicity is good publicity??" holy fuck you all made TGA popular as fuck! on the Internets largest weed forum


is it really the largest weed forum on the net?


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## headtreep (Jul 17, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> is it really the largest weed forum on the net?


I thought so but now I'm not too sure. I think they should change the name to "Troll It Up" not sure if that's been used before but it sure fits. I grow a lot of TGA genetics and even a newb with no skills can pull off some frosty shit if they follow the basics.


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 17, 2012)

headtreep said:


> I thought so but now I'm not too sure. I think they should change the name to "Troll It Up" not sure if that's been used before but it sure fits. I grow a lot of TGA genetics and even a newb with no skills can pull off some frosty shit if they follow the basics.


I have to agree I tasted this dudes Ace of Spades and Plushberry and I finished the plushberry super quick. So the proof is in the pudding.

And I'm pretty sure RIU is the biggest weed forum name another thats as big?


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 17, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> And I'm pretty sure RIU is the biggest weed forum name another thats as big?


icmag.com is pretty big they got a bunch of breeders on their too but I don't know if its bigger but I don't really know of any others that compare


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 17, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> icmag.com is pretty big they got a bunch of breeders on their too but I don't know if its bigger but I don't really know of any others that compare


How you doing anyway bluntmassa??? Livin' la vida loca ? or chillin like a villian ?


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 17, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> icmag.com is pretty big they got a bunch of breeders on their too but I don't know if its bigger but I don't really know of any others that compare


i see u on someone's forum asking for help.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 17, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> i see u on someone's forum asking for help.


wtf you talking about ?


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## lahadaextranjera (Jul 17, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> i see u on someone's forum asking for help.


?????????????????// How else do u think we became so good at growing?


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## lahadaextranjera (Jul 17, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> wtf you talking about ?



Hey Blunt !!! How's it going? I've fixed my RO problem finally !!


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 17, 2012)

lahadaextranjera said:


> Hey Blunt !!! How's it going? I've fixed my RO problem finally !!


What was wrong with it?


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## lahadaextranjera (Jul 17, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> What was wrong with it?


I got my knick knacks in a right twist for months. 

I use Canna Mono nutes in seperate bottles and I was supposed to add equal amounts but I knew that Ca was 2:1 to Mg so I measured it in EC just to realise after that the bottles were already set at Ca 15% and Mg was 7%. There was my 2:1. I was adding more Ca by EC and then locking out Mg plus others. When u buy Cal/Mag the %'s are already set. Now I just add under 2ml of each in 2 Gallons to EC 0.2 b4 nutes. More if needed but always equally now. 

I've just updated my outdoor thread and my plants look great now. It got so bad that I nearly went back on to my EC 0.45 tap water which is what I used originally.

IF I HADN'T OF ASKED I STILL WOULDN'T KNOW!!


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## BA142 (Jul 17, 2012)

Day 58 of 12/12 for my Ripped Bubba's......

Still only 4-5 nanners on 1 plant (took em off with tweezers) on my 3 phenos. 2 of them are sooo frosty with no nanners. 

My last grow was Chernobyl and I had 0 nanners....


Wanna talk about unstable? Try Dinafem.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 18, 2012)

Took down a ace of spades pink pheno and zero nanners to report  there is hope!


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## Grojak (Jul 18, 2012)

BA142 said:


> "Still only 4-5 nanners on 1 plant (took em off with tweezers) on my 3 phonos".



I can't believe people can say things like this, when did 3-4 naners become except able? I'm old school (back when there were FAR less competition and better product as a whole because of that) but I've only thrown nanners once and that was on a Bubbleberry bag seed so I didn't really care, but I also didn't pluck them I tossed the sucker.


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## CharlieBud (Jul 18, 2012)

Grojak said:


> I can't believe people can say things like this, when did 3-4 naners become except able? I'm old school (back when there were FAR less competition and better product as a whole because of that) but I've only thrown nanners once and that was on a Bubbleberry bag seed so I didn't really care, but I also didn't pluck them I tossed the sucker.


About the same time all the selfing and "elite F1s" became common. Not to mention the more people get into growing as legalization occurs, the more newbs stressing these same genetics. Its like giving a child a BB gun. May turn out just fine, but also could loose an eye.


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## Trulife69 (Jul 18, 2012)

haha thats hilarious charlie!


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 22, 2012)

my delicious seeds- Cotton candy and 1 of my Ace of spades have popped nanners/nanner. the cotton candy nuked my tent, this is one reason i cannot stand fems, so few breeders can do it right, spotted a few seeds on the ace of spades, not sure yer but cotton candy is the plant that did the deed... although it probably is, as it is in week 7 of flower as of today and needs 2 more weeks to pack on weight, truly depressing since it was very nice until this point, i guess i'll keep my new AoS keeper... this girl is TOO frosty to see any nanners if it did pop them, it smells like a beautiful bouquet of skittles, fruits and berries. best smelling plant i have grown so far, keif level is up there with some of the best i've grown too. makes me want to order another 40-50 ace of spades seeds just to stabilize this one pheno, i got the male right now to make f2's, pollinating her clone tommorow and making a BX to the mom using the best males from this f2. after that i'm finished with tga for a while, its been fun growing subs gear but the stuff is like a double edge sword.... still, after i get my 200 seeds of Bubblelicious i think i'll give timewreck a go in less than a year... smoke reports soon. i've got a critical kush from barney in the same tent, thing looks like a person right after a bad accident... been a flop though since seed.


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## UndergroundGrower (Jul 22, 2012)

Doobius1 said:


> This thread has me freakin' as I have 5 tga strains hittin their 5th week of flower. No nanners yet


man dont worry i really think that when one starts to think obout ones problems they suddenly giant more power. A young wise man once said " Don't worry be happy. "

they wont herm have Faith (and No i ant no bible thumper!)


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## Trulife69 (Jul 23, 2012)

Omgwtf Barneys Critical Kush is shitty? Bum deal,I just popped 2 beans of it and they all rooted..How far along are you with C.K.?


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 23, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> Omgwtf Barneys Critical Kush is shitty? Bum deal,I just popped 2 beans of it and they all rooted..How far along are you with C.K.?


shitty doesn't describe it, why did even grow this out? i made better bagseed than this stuff lol... much better bagseed. 1 or sample grow plant isnt enough to judge the entire strain but mine is a flop for sure.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 23, 2012)

I popped one seed of sweet tooth. Definetly not enough to make a judgement about the breeder or strain. But what do ya know garbage


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## CharlieBud (Jul 23, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> I popped one seed of sweet tooth. Definetly not enough to make a judgement about the breeder or strain. But what do ya know garbage


Well, if there were more breeders stabilizing strains, one bean would be enough, as there would not be a lot of variation. But for F1 polyhybrid horny funtime you need a larger sample due to "diversity". Once you have enough of the unstable F1 polyhybrids, then you can tell a "strain" is junk. I mean, why call these elite F1 polyhybrids a "strain" as that would indicate there was intent to create a stable breeding population. Not just cash out with sexy named mutts.

I personally can't wait for cultivar registration. Good times to come. lol

*


*


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## OGEvilgenius (Jul 23, 2012)

It`s really hard to stabilize a strain to the point where one seed and you get the keeper pheno. As long as cannabis is illegal very few varieties are going to do that, and if they do it`s almost dumb luck. 

Of course one man`s keeper is another man`s garbage, so there is always the subjective side of things too.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 23, 2012)

OGEvilgenius said:


> It`s really hard to stabilize a strain to the point where one seed and you get the keeper pheno. As long as cannabis is illegal very few varieties are going to do that, and if they do it`s almost dumb luck.
> 
> Of course one man`s keeper is another man`s garbage, so there is always the subjective side of things too.


the sweet tooth i got was not the keeper pheno it was a trash pheno. Anything i get with a really trashy pheno makes me not want to even bother with their genetics.

Very harsh smoke, when everything else in my garden tasted exquisite and smooth. Look was average. Smell was peculiar, dont really know how to describe( smelled kinda like sunblock?) High was subpar( very mental and kinda anxiety provoking). One person liked that the best out of everything i grew but i guess your right too each their own.


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## big mumma (Jul 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> As you can see theres no nute burn stress! Or any other stress and room is sealed no light leaks!


SORRY BRO....BUT YOUR PLANTS ARE DEFINITELY OVER FED.....THEM LEAVES ARE WAY TOO DARK ..AND THE LEAVES ARE CURLED SLIGHTLY ....YOU ARE TRIPPING,SUBCOOLS STRAINS ARE TOOOO GOOD FOR YOU BRO!!..overfeeding can cause fucked up plants..........GO GET SOMETHING ELSE YOU KOOK!!


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 24, 2012)

uh-oh we got another subcool lover in the house 

p.s. tga sucks the big one




big mumma said:


> SORRY BRO....BUT YOUR PLANTS ARE DEFINITELY OVER FED.....THEM LEAVES ARE WAY TOO DARK ..AND THE LEAVES ARE CURLED SLIGHTLY ....YOU ARE TRIPPING,SUBCOOLS STRAINS ARE TOOOO GOOD FOR YOU BRO!!..overfeeding can cause fucked up plants..........GO GET SOMETHING ELSE YOU KOOK!!


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## althor (Jul 24, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> the sweet tooth i got was not the keeper pheno it was a trash pheno. Anything i get with a really trashy pheno makes me not want to even bother with their genetics.
> 
> Very harsh smoke, when everything else in my garden tasted exquisite and smooth. Look was average. Smell was peculiar, dont really know how to describe( smelled kinda like sunblock?) High was subpar( very mental and kinda anxiety provoking). One person liked that the best out of everything i grew but i guess your right too each their own.



Thats how I felt about my Tangerine Dream. I know you cant judge an entire strain on one plant. But that plant was bad enough that I dont care to look for a "keeper". I have 1 Red Dragon fem seed I will pop at some point, but other than that I will never grow Barney's Farm again. If I can find a pheno that bad 1 for 1, I dont want to bother searching for the good one.


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## chuckthapollen (Jul 24, 2012)

I have grown jtr, agent org, plushberry, and deep purple. The deep purple was the only plant that didn't show nanners. The naners are sterile. They never produced seeds but scared the hell outta me the first time I saw this.
TGA has some good strains.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 24, 2012)

big mumma said:


> SORRY BRO....BUT YOUR PLANTS ARE DEFINITELY OVER FED.....THEM LEAVES ARE WAY TOO DARK ..AND THE LEAVES ARE CURLED SLIGHTLY ....YOU ARE TRIPPING,SUBCOOLS STRAINS ARE TOOOO GOOD FOR YOU BRO!!..overfeeding can cause fucked up plants..........GO GET SOMETHING ELSE YOU KOOK!!


Lol ok big mumma 

On another note you got no clue! To dark of leaves lol ok 
curled leaves wow

None of this is or was taking place in my room! Go back to where ever you came from, just another sub nut hugger!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 24, 2012)

Anotherthing big whatever i never said sub didnt have dank as a matter of fact hes got some fire! But with that comes
the nanners


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## gonzo3732 (Jul 24, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> Well, if there were more breeders stabilizing strains, one bean would be enough, as there would not be a lot of variation. But for F1 polyhybrid horny funtime you need a larger sample due to "diversity". Once you have enough of the unstable F1 polyhybrids, then you can tell a "strain" is junk. I mean, why call these elite F1 polyhybrids a "strain" as that would indicate there was intent to create a stable breeding population. Not just cash out with sexy named mutts.
> 
> I personally can't wait for cultivar registration. Good time
> 
> [/B]


Sadly you wouldnt stay in business for very long with worked lines, the money is in the latest hyped F1 and feminized beans. There are plenty of growers that have taken years making their own worked lines, but you wont see many wasting time online. With variety you get to track down your own elite pheno, then that hypes up the hybrid even more haha. Get the golden ticket? I grow tga so Im probably not welcome here, but the proof is there are tons of people growing great meds thanks to sub and crew for putting themselves out there. Yes you will find hermies and have to search for your pheno, but the fact you can usually find something worth keeping in 10 beans is more than you can expect from most seed co's out there. I dont understand this trend of bashing one breeder then worshipping someone else doing the same shit??? Most of the seeds being offered out there are just a blend of nl skunk and haze, find what ya like screw the hype


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## CharlieBud (Jul 24, 2012)

big mumma said:


> SORRY BRO....BUT YOUR PLANTS ARE DEFINITELY OVER FED.....THEM LEAVES ARE WAY TOO DARK ..AND THE LEAVES ARE CURLED SLIGHTLY ....YOU ARE TRIPPING,SUBCOOLS STRAINS ARE TOOOO GOOD FOR YOU BRO!!..overfeeding can cause fucked up plants..........GO GET SOMETHING ELSE YOU KOOK!!


One post every 2 years and THIS is how you waste it?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 24, 2012)

CharlieBud said:


> One post every 2 years and THIS is how you waste it?


Haha to funny!.....


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 25, 2012)

I have spotted what appears to be nanners on some of my querkle clones. The thing is they look like nanners but they spit out pistils. So im not quite sure what that is? I dont like it but its not harmful. Next time i will just take more clones off my urkle dominant querkle because that shows no nanners whatsoever. plus it turns a beautiful shade of purple with dark purple fan leaves. mmmmmmmmm


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## beer316 (Jul 25, 2012)

Trulife69 said:


> Just was wanting a little input from the growers out there that have run TGA strains...How stable are they? Ive read a bunch of hermie issues with his various strains and was wanting some feedback from you fellow RIU buddies


ordered once. got 3 regular chernobyl. 2 males 1 female. she is fucking unbelievable. only issue im having is keeping the branches supported. no hermie issues that i have noticed and i even have high heat. shit load of crystals. very stick buds and lighter colored hairs. cant wait until i get to smoke her but gotta be patient. i will definitely order again from them. im especially more of a seed guy. i dont really like clones as much.


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## wheezer (Jul 25, 2012)

So far so good. 36 days into flower, no hermies,... 3 different phenos of course, ...... PlushBerry!


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

unstable genetics come from making only one cross. some breeders now days just make that one cross, never backcrossing the finish produce back to the mother plant. most seed companies sell those seeds as bxs. every breeder breeds different every seed produces different product....but nowadays it's just a marketing game. look at the cannabis cup winners....most of those that win aint winners.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

pollen chucker breeders 101......find a great clone eveyone loves and cross it with a well known male or a male u been using for years. there's been how many seed companies started the way in the last 10 years? now everybody having problems because as a breeder they tried to skip some steps in the breeding. when that happens u see threads like this one. look at all these different seed companies with herm problems now.....20 years ago the only herm problems came from thai crosses.


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## typoerror (Jul 25, 2012)

where can i get your seeds?


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 25, 2012)

My querkle (space queen dom pheno) are confirmed hermie. Sterile nanners all over the place. I guess they are unstable . I got about 6 ounces on this one thats in a 7 gal pot. Its got nice big fat buds on them all organic. Will sterile hermies harm my crop at all?Also do sterile hermies harm the smoke at all? I have my room very dialed in so you guys are right. Sterile nanners on one of my querkle phenos and no nanners on anything else. Its gonna suck picking out these nanners come harvest time. I will be culling this pheno out of my garden. Im glad my urkle pheno has no bananas.I also got about 6 ounces on that one, its in a 7 gal pot.


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## T Ray (Jul 25, 2012)

Specifically for 15Yearsofbreeding.

Why is your beloved breeder passing off works of others as his own? Can we believe everything from Shanti is authentic? 

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5229684 (Even has the pic's of the MAG it's in and the actual article he copied it from.)

Saying/Typing (copy and pasting) something that is not yours on a forum is already bad (BrickTop and others), but actually getting something published in a magazine is truly sickening and arrogant. To think no one would notice is laughable. From a breeder that everyone puts on a pedestal none the less.

I sure hope you're questioning your beloved breeder about why he would stoop to such a incredibly low level to steal someone else's work. You should focus more of your outrage on that and the fact that Neville is off making new strains without MNS. Why is that?

You have some real motive here bashing TGA and it seems like its personal to almost stalkerish levels. Scary.

If you have been "breeding" for 15 years I'd love to seem some of your own work and get off Shanti's nuts. All I ever hear from you is MNS this and MNS that or SHANTI-SHANTI.

I'll admit I rock out the TGA quite a bit, but I have pic's (start to finish) to go along that show TGA has dank. Call me a TGA dickrider, I could give a fuck less. All I know is when I have grown out TGA, I have gotten results. And those speak louder than any words you have.

Results (Only popped 2 Chernobyl seeds. This is the Lime-Cut that I kept.) 






















I have yet to see a picture from you. How bout' we see some of your sweet genetics and surely they will blow my weak bud shots away.

T-Ray


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## st0wandgrow (Jul 25, 2012)

All good here. I ran one Jillybean through, finished up in about 60 days, no nanners at all. Beautiful healthy plant from start to finish.

I have 3 Cheese Quake at almost 8 weeks flower, and same results. Lush green plants covered in trichomes, and no sign of nanners.

I have grown out a ton of seeds from dozens of breeders, and my experience with TGA (thus far) has been nothing short of excellent.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

I sure hope you're questioning your beloved breeder about why he would stoop to such a incredibly low level to steal someone else's work. You should focus more of your outrage on that and the fact that Neville is off making new strains without MNS. Why is that? i have some of the test seeds neville have been working with so talk wat u know. as for him breeding new strains without mns, if u know neville then u know when he's working he doesnt like no one around.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

why show my work? there's a lot of great breeders out there whom we will never know or see their work.


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## T Ray (Jul 25, 2012)

And what about the part of Shanti and him plagiarizing? You skipped over that part. Conveniently.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

richard davis was one of the best unknown strains and how many here have every evn heard of it?


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

T Ray said:


> And what about the part of Shanti and him plagiarizing? You skipped over that part. Conveniently.


wat or who's work did they steal or lie about?


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## T Ray (Jul 25, 2012)

If you really have been breeding for 15 years, surely you have some of your own strains. Otherwise you would just be "15yearsofgrowing". And typically when you talk shit to someone about something you back it up. Your pictures would be you verifying that you even grow anything, let alone dank. Seems your alot of talk and little when it comes to showing results.

T-Ray


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

t-ray must work for greenhouse


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

T Ray said:


> If you really have been breeding for 15 years, surely you have some of your own strains. Otherwise you would just be "15yearsofgrowing". And typically when you talk shit to someone about something you back it up. Your pictures would be you verifying that you even grow anything, let alone dank. Seems your alot of talk and little when it comes to showing results.
> 
> T-Ray


if thats true as u say......how many cups have tga won? one or two right. now how many has nevil and sb won?


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## T Ray (Jul 25, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> wat or who's work did they steal or lie about?


Did you even read the thread link? Shanti clearly put a article in that magazine that is someone elses hard work. Here I actually found the claim that started here on riu.

https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/545173-shanti-baba-plagiarism-crime.html

It explains it quite clearly if you take the time to read it. It even has the exact source that shanti supposed mag article came from. And in the first source you can clearly see where shanti copied it word for word.

T-Ray


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

sandy never show pitures of his grows, ortega never took pitures of his kush#4.


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## T Ray (Jul 25, 2012)

Anyone that knows anything, knows the cups are a joke. I'm specifically talking about at least having two or more of pictures/grow logs/lab tests....something that shows what you grow is actually fire. You just come on here and bash TGA all day and have nothing but words to come to your conclusions. How about you show me what you mean?

T-Ray


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

T Ray said:


> Anyone that knows anything, knows the cups are a joke. I'm specifically talking about at least having two or more of pictures/grow logs/lab tests....something that shows what you grow is actually fire. You just come on here and bash TGA all day and have nothing but words to come to your conclusions. How about you show me what you mean?
> 
> T-Ray


sb's g13widow was in the hightimes top 10 strongest wasnt it? i didnt see not one tga strain, not a one. i dont care about tga.


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## T Ray (Jul 25, 2012)

It's interesting that you don't care, b/c in my eyes it seems you care very much. Go look at every post you make. It's either a slander towards TGA or a praise of MNS/Shanti/Neville. For someone who doesn't care you sure do type/talk a lot about TGA.

T-Ray


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

i just read that thread about sb's lies......i guess he's not a great breeder. i guess his seeds arent no good anymore. i guess him and neville will never do another cross again. as long as i know i have good stable genetics to play with im happy. but id never be called the north american arjan.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

when subcool talkes bad about ppl everyone laughs and happy about it so stop crying.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

every thing that sub has put up about breeding growing it's his words but the words of BREEDERS. go read all his breeding guides and ways of growing. he aint even the breeder of all of tga strains.


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## T Ray (Jul 25, 2012)

All I'm saying is that anything Shanti says/has said has to come under a lot more scrutiny at this point. Who knows if everything he says isn't just a bunch of bullshit? I want to believe it ain't so too, but proof is proof. 

If he has the balls to blatantly copy and publish someone else's work, why couldn't he of just told fables the whole time? Just sayin...


T-Ray


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## st0wandgrow (Jul 25, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> when subcool takes bad about ppl everyone laughs and happy about it so stop crying.


May I suggest 15 years of reading? I can barely make out what it is you're trying to say.

You are butchering the English language like no other!


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

i dont like tga, dna, cali connection or greenhouse. i even got banned from sensi forum for letting them know how i felt about there hash plant not being wat it use to be and for talking about how they lost most of their males.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

T Ray said:


> All I'm saying is that anything Shanti says/has said has to come under a lot more scrutiny at this point. Who knows if everything he says isn't just a bunch of bullshit? I want to believe it ain't so too, but proof is proof.
> 
> If he has the balls to blatantly copy and publish someone else's work, why couldn't he of just told fables the whole time? Just sayin...
> 
> ...


in the breeding game it's possible....because i asked about his white widow once and told me that his original male was lost. that happen all the time. but it's different when that person tells u a lie that it's still alive and it's been dead for 5 years. almost every seed company in the dam lost all their original plants and had to start over but if u look at their catalog u dont see no difference but the seeds ur buying arent the same.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 25, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> in the breeding game it's possible....because i asked about his white widow once and told me that his original male was lost. that happen all the time. but it's different when that person tells u a lie that it's still alive and it's been dead for 5 years. almost every seed company in the dam lost all their original plants and had to start over but if u look at their catalog u dont see no difference but the seeds ur buying arent the same.


This is probably BrickTop.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

http://youtu.be/ZHlvmdmzq0M start watching it around 11:24..........who's breeding notes are dey? not one from sub himself.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 25, 2012)

http://youtu.be/T7tUjV1B96c i wonder who's notes he's reading....lol wat a breeder


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## T Ray (Jul 25, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> http://youtu.be/ZHlvmdmzq0M start watching it around 11:24..........who's breeding notes are dey? not one from sub himself.


Clearly you heard his explanation...so no need to repeat what he said, but to take it a step further than you did, here is Sub addressing the situation 2 episodes later (about 19:25 in) and he mans up and does shit proper. Humans make mistakes, the difference it what you do after the mistakes been made.

[video=youtube;b4pb56HXzF0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4pb56HXzF0[/video]

T-Ray


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## Mithrandir420 (Jul 25, 2012)

Hey 15 years, you never answered my questions on your other thread...

So, other than talking shit, what's your point? What are you trying to accomplish with these threads? To put TGA Subcool out of business? Not gonna happen, man. The guy is too entrenched, and he's a great promoter/marketer. And despite what you would like to be true, the guy actually know his shit when it comes to soil gardening. Enough people don't care, don't know or are experienced enough to work with his seeds that it doesn't matter if they are unstable. They are still going to sell. (And from what I can tell from the reviews I have read, not all of them are hermie prone, and some are pretty potent.) To drum up business for other breeders? Then you're just a shill. To troll for fun? Well, you're OK at that but I have seen far better. You have gotten the SubHeads to circle the wagons and break out the pitchforks and torches, and that's always amusing, but hardly an accomplishment.

So what's your point man? Because so far you just look like a fairly uneducated, jealous person who is obsessed with Subcool. Before you say it, I am not a Subcool fanboy. I have bought one pack of his seeds (plushberry), and don't really plan on buying more since there are other things I want to try before TGA's stuff. So from someone who is pretty neutral... what's your point?

Also, why so focused on TGA, and not any of the dozens of other pollen chucker breeders out there?


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## stak (Jul 25, 2012)

15years, you claim you don't care about TGA but yet you troll in all of the threads? If you don't care about something then why bother reading or posting anything about it? And if you hate Sub so much why are you watching his youtube videos?


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## snodome (Jul 25, 2012)

you guys are missing the bigger picture. he actually works for tga. negative publicity is still publicity. he is doing a bang up job keeping the thread at the top and tga at the forefront of everyones minds. good or bad.


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## ink the world (Jul 25, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> i dont like tga, dna, cali connection or greenhouse. i even got banned from sensi forum for letting them know how i felt about there hash plant not being wat it use to be and for talking about how they lost most of their males.


Ah, so you're an equal opportunity douchebag.

Still haven't seen your "work" and still waiting


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## BA142 (Jul 27, 2012)

Day 68 of my Ripped Bubba's....one of the three phenos still has a few nanners but the other two are nanner free and FROSTYYYYY. Harvest in 2-3 days. 

Just gotta pick a good phenotype....you can't just throw one feminized seed in the dirt and expect a keeper. BTW this was from a 5 pack....3 females, 1 male and 1 didn't germinate. 2 keepers out of 5, and the 3rd female that spit out a few nanners is still very potent looking.

Just documenting my TGA experience....I'm not a fanboy, I just ran his gear because it's widely available in dispensaries up here. I'll probably keep one of the phenos and then try another seedbank, probably Mr. Nice.


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## Mithrandir420 (Jul 27, 2012)

snodome said:


> you guys are missing the bigger picture. He actually works for tga. Negative publicity is still publicity. He is doing a bang up job keeping the thread at the top and tga at the forefront of everyones minds. Good or bad.


ftmfw.....


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## wheezer (Jul 28, 2012)

well.....I had to cut my Jillybean down at 39 days of bloom due to hermies everywhere! I meanb that fucker got em' shootin out of every bud in more than one spot. My Plushberry on the other hand are all still clean at 39 days....go figure.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 28, 2012)

wheezer said:


> well.....I had to cut my Jillybean down at 39 days of bloom due to hermies everywhere! I meanb that fucker got em' shootin out of every bud in more than one spot. My Plushberry on the other hand are all still clean at 39 days....go figure.


yea mine was shotting them like crazy around day 49, plant was mostly milky by then so it didn't matter much but jillybean is nanner prone, i think they are sterile but you may never know.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 28, 2012)

T Ray said:


> Clearly you heard his explanation...so no need to repeat what he said, but to take it a step further than you did, here is Sub addressing the situation 2 episodes later (about 19:25 in) and he mans up and does shit proper. Humans make mistakes, the difference it what you do after the mistakes been made.
> 
> [video=youtube;b4pb56HXzF0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4pb56HXzF0[/video]
> 
> T-Ray


who's breeding notes? lol


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 28, 2012)

i have my own way of doing things, nevil has his own notes and so does shanti, dj short and all the others. everyone but sub!!!!! sub is a "this is wat he said do" type of guy. i have my own notes my own way and nobody elses......if he would follow the way nevil and the rest of them breed then his shit wouldnt be as unstable as they are.....damn lazy ass backyard breeding lead to threads like this one and many more.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Jul 28, 2012)

if tga strains where so strong like he everyone say......why didnt any of his strains make the worlds strongest list in the hightimes a few months back? because bag appeal strains are worthless.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 28, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> who's breeding notes? lol


not to mention that clown ran his mouth about blueberry saying he grew it out several times and didn't find the blueberry pheno and then goes on about one of his strains having a lot more blueberry phenos then DJ's blueberry what a joke and then he uses DJ's book for his notes when he thinks hes a better breeder then DJ short. lmao guy only wishes he could be as good as DJ short.


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## homebrewer (Jul 28, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> if tga strains where so strong like he everyone say......why didnt any of his strains make the worlds strongest list in the hightimes a few months back?


Hightimes is a rag. I'm not defending anyone but $$$ buys hightimes' time.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 28, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> Hightimes is a rag. I'm not defending anyone but $$$ buys hightimes' time.



Homebrewers right hightimes is a sham!


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 28, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> not to mention that clown ran his mouth about blueberry saying he grew it out several times and didn't find the blueberry pheno and then goes on about one of his strains having a lot more blueberry phenos then DJ's blueberry what a joke and then he uses DJ's book for his notes when he thinks hes a better breeder then DJ short. lmao guy only wishes he could be as good as DJ short.


would you say dj short produces better gear? despite his greater knowledge i would say out of the 11-12 best strains offered by TGA would probably hold their own or produce better results than the sum 11-12 dj shorts gear. if you actually care about knowledgeable breeders look into Chimera seeds, Sensi Seeds, Mr. Nice, Dr. Atomic, Serious seeds. Dj's added experience hasn't made him work harder, he still sells an instable blueberry and half his gear is blueberry hybrids. basically subcool alpha version, his seeds are more expensive too. not great results from dj in recent years, never tried his stuff back when in the prime before he lost his breeding parents.


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## ChesusRice (Jul 28, 2012)

stak said:


> 15years, you claim you don't care about TGA but yet you troll in all of the threads? If you don't care about something then why bother reading or posting anything about it? And if you hate Sub so much why are you watching his youtube videos?


*stak* posted a *visitor message* on *ChesusRice's* profile add to ignore good riddance


Excuse me
Have I ever even posted in a thread you were in?
Are you mentally unstable or something?


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 29, 2012)

ya that stak guy threatened to ignore me to in my visitor message he also posted some shit in lahada's visitor message guys a joke.


ChesusRice said:


> *stak* posted a *visitor message* on *ChesusRice's* profile add to ignore good riddance
> 
> 
> Excuse me
> ...


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 29, 2012)

I can tell you one thing I would buy from DJ long before I thought of buying from tga. and I highly doubt subcool with his poly hybrids is gonna have a more stable variety then DJ short. have you gotten a blueberry pheno from subcool? cause all I hear is tga seeds are all over the place.


Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> would you say dj short produces better gear? despite his greater knowledge i would say out of the 11-12 best strains offered by TGA would probably hold their own or produce better results than the sum 11-12 dj shorts gear. if you actually care about knowledgeable breeders look into Chimera seeds, Sensi Seeds, Mr. Nice, Dr. Atomic, Serious seeds. Dj's added experience hasn't made him work harder, he still sells an instable blueberry and half his gear is blueberry hybrids. basically subcool alpha version, his seeds are more expensive too. not great results from dj in recent years, never tried his stuff back when in the prime before he lost his breeding parents.


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## T Ray (Jul 29, 2012)

> Bluntmassa1
> 
> ....*cause all I hear is tga seeds are all over the place.*



That's kind of the problem with you talking bad about TGA. You have no experience to do so. It would be like giving a review on a product you have never used. How's that possible? Your opinion has no credibility.

T-Ray


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 29, 2012)

have you gotten a blueberry pheno from subcools seeds? or anyone for that matter


T Ray said:


> That's kind of the problem with you talking bad about TGA. You have no experience to do so. It would be like giving a review on a product you have never used. How's that possible? Your opinion has no credibility.
> 
> T-Ray


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 29, 2012)

and the only thing I said is about him talking shit about blueberry from DJ Short. I know people get good weed from him from some of the pics I've seen but not one said they had 2 alike phenos that I've heard of. but I never said all his seeds are shit I know he has some keepers


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## T Ray (Jul 29, 2012)

Haven't grown anything with BCS in it (which I'm pretty sure is what Sub said tasted more blueberry than DJ's blueberry) and haven't grown DJ's Blueberry to compare/say. Unlike you I won't say things about something I have no experience with. 

And just a FYI here is two very respected growers Dizzle Frost (of Frost brother's) and Snafu1236 both saying similar things to Subcool about DJ's Blueberry. Nanner thrower/unstable and hard to find keeper. Yet he is put on a pedestal constantly. 

https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/325961-dj-shorts-blueberry-13.html

P.S.-You notice how I am not the one forming the opinion on Blueberry (b/c I would be talking out of my ass cuz I haven't grown it). And how I sourced two respected members that do have the experience with Blueberry. 

Instead of giving your opinion with no experience, you should source others that actually have it and can back up what you say. When trying to make a point, it makes it much more credible.

T-Ray


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## T Ray (Jul 29, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> and the only thing I said is about him talking shit about blueberry from DJ Short. I know people get good weed from him from some of the pics I've seen but not one said they had 2 alike phenos that I've heard of. but I never said all his seeds are shit I know he has some keepers



Really? You do know that I have been following this thread from the beginning right? 

All from Bluntmassa1 
#1


> *not to mention that clown ran his mouth about blueberry saying he grew it out several times and didn't find the blueberry pheno and then goes on about one of his strains having a lot more blueberry phenos then DJ's blueberry what a joke and then he uses DJ's book for his notes when he thinks hes a better breeder then DJ short. lmao guy only wishes he could be as good as DJ short. *


#2



> *very true when I can buy ak-47 and deffinetly have killer smoke for same price as all the tga strains why would I bother growing *_his crap_


#3



> *their about as stable as a phillipino hooker *


#4



> *wow yall got such nice things to say about tga seeds. LMAO.............I wonder if subcools seen this thread yet. if so I bet hes crying the blues I actually thought about buying his seeds but all the nice things I've heard about him on this site I would never buy his seeds fem seeds are for pussys its more like
> fem seeds less likely to herm than tga seeds. lol *


#5



> *he must have finally realized tga sucks the big one*


Wouldn't this classify as talking shit about TGA/Subcool? That's what makes me laugh is when people who HEAR about things rant on shit they have no experience with. Not only are you talking shit about TGA without popping a seed, but also slandering Subcool personally.

T-Ray


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## T Ray (Jul 29, 2012)

Again I'll throw up some of my TGA and you throw up some of your best and we'll compare.

Here's some of my Qush. Popped 10 seeds. This is what I got. 







Here's some Chernobyl. Popped 2 seeds.








Qrazy Train. Popped 2 seeds.








Bubba Qush x Querkle. Popped 5 seeds.







So either I'm just extremely lucky or TGA has good genetics. You decide. 

T-Ray


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## T Ray (Jul 29, 2012)

Seems I'm not the only one.Here's a quote from Matt Rize that grows some of the most amazing Ice Wax I have ever seen. Just check the links. You can say he is got a in with Subcool which I agree with, but that doesn't mean he doesnt grow superdank TGA gear in a little amount of seeds.

Matt Rize


> *I only popped 10 beans and found one. I seem to have this kind of luck with TGA gear. Best wishes on your hunt, it should be an easy one.*


https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/496117-weed-nerd-335.html#post7761083

Check out these links to his work with Plushberry and his other TGA works.

[video=youtube;ZxGHtVUgfYo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxGHtVUgfYo[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE_x4eiKWPs


He rocks TGA for a reason. Just like Nugbuckets, Hovering, Geekmike, T Curtiss, Ocanabis, Murph, Budologist, Kushking and many others....cuz it's DANK! Or is it that we all are just getting lucky?


T-Ray


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## ink the world (Jul 29, 2012)

After following this thread it's become abundantly clear that the majority of the loudest voices bashing TGA haven't even grown their gear. Seriously, WTF?

How can you constantly trash something you've never even tried? It really makes your arguments worthless and shines a light on the fact that some are just hating for some personal reason or loyalty to another seed company.


I've grown out 3 TGA strains and found a keeper in each. The Apollo 13 is a hit with my patients, most requested strain right now. The Plushberry keeper is nanner free and some of the best tasting smoke I've ever had. Querkle is a hit too, people dig the insane purple hues and the sweet dank taste. All the keepers I got are top shelf according to my patients.

This isn't speculation or here say, it's a fact. My patients have had over 20 strains to sample and choose from over the last 18 months or so. The TGA keepers are in the garden by their demand. 

If your gripe is that there is pheno hunting and some work involved, I guess that's a legitimate complaint for some. If you have a small grow, maybe the hunt isn't worthwhile in a small space. If you're saying that the gear sucks, you aren't getting the sane results I and many others have.


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## wheezer (Jul 29, 2012)

children ,children, you all stop this right now or daddy will spank! 
Here's a thought...if you've grown it, show your results, hjonestly, good or bad. If you havn't grown it, you really have no lace to bash the gear IMO. I've grown almost all TGA gear now, and have posted results good and bad. My Plushberry is 4 phenos out 4, but all 4 are keepers in their own right...hard to beat that out of 5 seeds, on the other hand, I pulled 3 plants this round due to hermies. 
Here's another thought....I'll grow the ones I like, and chunk the ones I don't like haha. 
Just kiddin though guys on the children thing, I know we get pretty riled up over our opinions..........


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## Budologist420 (Jul 29, 2012)

Damn T-Ray put that troll in his place..


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 29, 2012)

how did he put me in my place I said he has some good weed but the question I asked is if him or anybody else has gotten a blueberry pheno from subcool 


Budologist420 said:


> Damn T-Ray put that troll in his place..


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 29, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> have you gotten a blueberry pheno from subcools seeds? or anyone for that matter


 if you want blueberry, i would get dr atomics blueberry jam. it tasted just like blueberries, very consistent and easy to grow like NL, not a fuss like dj's is. more pheno's that yield better too, his atomic northern lights is used in the hybrid (NL x BB).


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## maphisto (Jul 29, 2012)

i grew out some of dj shorts blueberry a while back,but i got it from clone at P.O.,it was ok kind of like a high midgrade i had posted that in their forms and others had agreed with me..i never kept it as i was looking for something better..i am however interested in TGA's Cheesequake..


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## Grojak (Jul 29, 2012)

I've grown 3 TGA strains found 2 keepers in Dairy Queen and than it's all down hill from there!!! Deep Purple has more deformities than the elephant man, 1 plant out of 5 looked good. The one JTR bean I've popped so far shot out crazy amounts of banana's around week 7/8. I'm looking to donate my Spacedawg and Chrynoble or trade with a local patient to get these off my hands, want to grow more stable strains, I didn't know much about TGA when I bought these, my bad!!


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 29, 2012)

Grojak said:


> I've grown 3 TGA strains found 2 keepers in Dairy Queen and than it's all down hill from there!!! Deep Purple has more deformities than the elephant man, 1 plant out of 5 looked good. The one JTR bean I've popped so far shot out crazy amounts of banana's around week 7/8. I'm looking to donate my Spacedawg and Chrynoble or trade with a local patient to get these off my hands, want to grow more stable strains, I didn't know much about TGA when I bought these, my bad!!


grow the chernobyl, its worth it, i haven't had one herm, it grows well outdoors too if that's your thing. it is a big plant with good yield and excellent nug. smells very sweet and definite lime candy flavor to the cured product


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## Grojak (Jul 30, 2012)

I'm actually looking to dump my Chernoybl and Spacedawg seeds after reading these forums and experiencing less than stellar genetics with DP, I'm hoping to find a local patient to trade with or donate to, I'm looking for stability for breed stock and I'm not getting that with gimpy 3 leaf plants with warped leaves.


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## dukeblue (Jul 30, 2012)

I am not buying two ten packs to find that one pheno. Thats not breeding,thats fucking pollen chucking.


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## st0wandgrow (Jul 30, 2012)

What breeder produces seeds that are identical phenotypes? I've germinated a shit-ton of seeds from dozens of breeders, and I've never come across a breeder that doesn't have some phenotype variation in a pack. I have Serious Seeds Kali Mist, and Bubblegum in my garden right now (have also germinated packs of AK47 and The Chronic) and there is as much variation from seed to seed as I've seen in my TGA gear thus far, and I think Simon and the crew over at Serious Seeds are pretty well respected in the industry.

I've only germinated 2-5 packs of TGA seeds, so maybe I've just been lucky with such a small sample size, but I just don't see where all the hate is coming from. And guess what, if I had a bad experience with his beans I wouldn't buy any more from him .... but I certainly wouldn't dedicate hours of my time on some anonymous forum trashing the dude and his company!


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## hovering (Jul 30, 2012)

[PSA]
_

*Actual TGA Grow Journals**_ are in my signature for those who care.

*your results may vary 


[/PSA]


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## Grojak (Jul 30, 2012)

st0wandgrow said:


> What breeder produces seeds that are identical phenotypes? I've germinated a shit-ton of seeds from dozens of breeders, and I've never come across a breeder that doesn't have some phenotype variation in a pack. I have Serious Seeds Kali Mist, and Bubblegum in my garden right now (have also germinated packs of AK47 and The Chronic) and there is as much variation from seed to seed as I've seen in my TGA gear thus far, and I think Simon and the crew over at Serious Seeds are pretty well respected in the industry.
> 
> I've only germinated 2-5 packs of TGA seeds, so maybe I've just been lucky with such a small sample size, but I just don't see where all the hate is coming from. And guess what, if I had a bad experience with his beans I wouldn't buy any more from him .... but I certainly wouldn't dedicate hours of my time on some anonymous forum trashing the dude and his company!



Really, you found TGA style diversity in Bubble Gum? I started 5 of those along side my Deep Purple and 4/5 look Identical, they were all topped no real branching just 2-4 tips growing vertical. The 5th I'm not sure about because I might of mixed up a DP and BG in transplanting, I have one BG that looks like an indica bush, I'm thinking that might of been a DP, the DP in question turned male so I might of made a boo boo, but I'll know once the BG in question flowers (assuming its fem)


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## homebrewer (Jul 30, 2012)

st0wandgrow said:


> I have Serious Seeds Kali Mist, and Bubblegum in my garden right now (have also germinated packs of AK47 and The Chronic) and there is as much variation from seed to seed as I've seen in my TGA gear thus far, and I think Simon and the crew over at Serious Seeds are pretty well respected in the industry.


That's a little surprising because I've grown kali mist, Ak47 and Chronic and so has a good friend of mine (grown from SS seed packs of 11). We're not dealing with clones here so one should expect some variation but overall, each one of his strains looked and smoked _a lot_ like mine. You will not get that kind of stability out of f1 polyhybrids. 

If you're comparing the folks at TGA to Simon at Serious Seeds, you might as well include me and my own remedial, pollen-chucking breeding efforts in that conversation which would be seriously ridiculous.


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## st0wandgrow (Jul 30, 2012)

Again, I've only germinated 2-5 packs of TGA, so my sample size is small ..... but thus far I am thrilled with the results.

Keep in mind that only 1 of my five Jillybeans were female, so I can't speak on the uniformity of that strain, but I got 3 females in my 5 pack of Cheesequake, and all 3 are beautiful, almost identical expressions of the strain. Every bit as uniform as the 40+ seeds I've germinated from Serious Seeds.

I can only comment on my experiences thus far, and I am very happy with TGA. My lone Jillybean is a keeper, and I will have a tough time deciding which Cheesequake(s) to cull from my garden. Straight dank!


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## st0wandgrow (Jul 30, 2012)

Grojak said:


> Really, you found TGA style diversity in Bubble Gum? I started 5 of those along side my Deep Purple and 4/5 look Identical, they were all topped no real branching just 2-4 tips growing vertical. The 5th I'm not sure about because I might of mixed up a DP and BG in transplanting, I have one BG that looks like an indica bush, I'm thinking that might of been a DP, the DP in question turned male so I might of made a boo boo, but I'll know once the BG in question flowers (assuming its fem)


Very much so. Particularly the Bubblegum. I had 5 females, and 3 distinct phenotypes. I was really hoping for a sativa leaning pheno out of the bunch, but ended up settling on an Indica dom pheno because it was clearly the best genetics of the bunch.

My experience with Kali Mist, Chronic, and AK47 were better in that there was more uniformity among the phenotypes.


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## st0wandgrow (Jul 30, 2012)

homebrewer said:


> That's a little surprising because I've grown kali mist, Ak47 and Chronic and so has a good friend of mine (grown from SS seed packs of 11). We're not dealing with clones here so one should expect some variation but overall, each one of his strains looked and smoked _a lot_ like mine. You will not get that kind of stability out of f1 polyhybrids.
> 
> If you're comparing the folks at TGA to Simon at Serious Seeds, you might as well include me and my own remedial, pollen-chucking breeding efforts in that conversation which would be seriously ridiculous.


How many TGA strains have you grown?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 30, 2012)

I have run 4 of them and only the AOS didnt herm! Dank yes but hermies confirmed, not bashing just stating a fact


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 30, 2012)

ImOnWelfare said:


> After reading like 50 pages of this thread I have come to the conclusion that all breeders suck? Is there a breeder we haven't shit on yet? Who do you guys recommend since everyone I was considering will apparently turn to hermied shit. So frustrating trying to figure out what to grow.


Try bodhi....


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## wheezer (Jul 30, 2012)

ImOnWelfare said:


> After reading like 50 pages of this thread I have come to the conclusion that all breeders suck? Is there a breeder we haven't shit on yet? Who do you guys recommend since everyone I was considering will apparently turn to hermied shit. So frustrating trying to figure out what to grow.


I've run alot of gear and so far Connoisuer Genetics and Bodhi is the only ones that I havn't found a hermie yet. I've only grown 2 of Bodhis though, but 6 of Connoisuers. Alphakronick has been good and clean too so far. I'm not the easiest on the plants either...I move em' around alot...light dep, all kinds of abuse...


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## wheezer (Jul 30, 2012)

BTW I just did a hit of Qrazy Train....mmmmmmm mmmm


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## TheOrganic (Jul 31, 2012)

Wow just finished this thread and learned that most all breeders can have hermies. I was already on this conclusion a year ago when I popped my querkle 5pack 1 male with 2 herms all females were diff phenos and I mean diff. The pheno I kept was bomb but threw sterile nanners at week 7-8 nt bad though. And plus online reading of breeders gear having a hermies.

On my present grow I popped 3 Mango haze from MNS and 2 were male and 1 hermed week 5 with clusters lower half of plant. My SSSDH(reg from connoisour) and Delahaze(fem and the most sour smelling plant Ive ever had) Were pollinated more so on the SSSDH.

Partially my fault cause I should have been looking closer and yanked that fucker out. But to sum it all up its mostly all bullshit what breeders say. They are salesmen and one thing salesmen do is bullshit. Tell ya the truth I have had the best plants from attitude fem freebies than any reg seeds so far.........BrickTop would like this.....Greenhouse seeds has outperformed MNS for me so far....still won't go back to greenhouse though just cause Ive been there. But still my helps my point that its all bullshit.

Still will pop the rest of the 12 MHaze hopefully I must have picked the bad seeds first 

Just go to attitude and get to the breeder selection close your eyes wiggle your mouse and click. Then do the same thing when sifting through there strains. And if I see the word dank related to TGA one more time I'm gonna shit myself.


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## wheezer (Jul 31, 2012)

TGA is dank!! I just wanted to see if you would really shit yourself..


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 31, 2012)

wheezer said:


> I've run alot of gear and so far Connoisuer Genetics and Bodhi is the only ones that I havn't found a hermie yet. I've only grown 2 of Bodhis though, but 6 of Connoisuers. Alphakronick has been good and clean too so far. I'm not the easiest on the plants either...I move em' around alot...light dep, all kinds of abuse...


same, i give my plants the tough love, if they cannot perform great under those conditions then they get replaced.


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## skunk421 (Jul 31, 2012)

ya man i just had same problom on week 5 with my plush i am duuunnnn with tga


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 31, 2012)

2 of my 3 AoS are shooting nanners. from middle to late in flower, 1 of them i call "berry cleaner" for its smell has not popped any nanners or balls, seems like a mix between JTR and bcs but more JTR dominant. very nice trichs and very solid dense buds! she is the keeper of this group, her smell is not as nice nor does look is not as resinous as the other 2, but better calyx/leaf ratio, buds are practically all calyx. 1 aos is purpling, seems to be 50/50 plant showing traits from both plants equally, throwing nanners, some very embedded in the buds the bcs dom is the frostiest and smallest of the 3 turning pink and red right now, calyxes are stacking and creating what look like foxtails because it has been pollinated (probably the reason) and slowed bud growth to a crawl, smells like cherry lifesavors and skittles candy. 

I'm glad i can say i've stressed these girl alot and we have a few that wont toss nanners regardless of high stress- exactly what i need in a mom (other than great finished product)

on a side note- Neither of the 2 Voids have shown any nanners and they have been move around and supercropped/trained like the AoS. 1 smells much funkier than the other, one smells like grape jelly with a hint of petrol while the other smells like rotten fruits and grape gum.

The Third dimension seems to be the most stable besides the AoS-Berry Cleaner pheno, like being trained but could use tying up.


----------



## TheOrganic (Jul 31, 2012)

I have to shit now! No really I do have to shit. Ahhhhhhh nooooooooooooooo!


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

TheOrganic said:


> Wow just finished this thread and learned that most all breeders can have hermies. I was already on this conclusion a year ago when I popped my querkle 5pack 1 male with 2 herms all females were diff phenos and I mean diff. The pheno I kept was bomb but threw sterile nanners at week 7-8 nt bad though. And plus online reading of breeders gear having a hermies.
> 
> On my present grow I popped 3 Mango haze from MNS and 2 were male and 1 hermed week 5 with clusters lower half of plant. My SSSDH(reg from connoisour) and Delahaze(fem and the most sour smelling plant Ive ever had) Were pollinated more so on the SSSDH.
> 
> ...


 see u had problems with mhz if u know anything about hazes if u would've just cut those lowers there wouldnt been no other problems. hazes are easy to fuck up if u dont know wat your doing.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 1, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> see u had problems with mhz if u know anything about hazes if u would've just cut those lowers there wouldnt been no other problems. hazes are easy to fuck up if u dont know wat your doing.


 oh! its his fault the Mhz hermed, while it is subs fault for the herms in his gear! damn kid... talk about cognitive dissonance.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> oh! its his fault the Mhz hermed, while it is subs fault for the herms in his gear! damn kid... talk about cognitive dissonance.


never said it was ur fault i was saying if u just cut the lowers that the problem u were having would've went away. listen with ur ears and not with ur eyes


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 1, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> never said it was ur fault i was saying if u just cut the lowers that the problem u were having would've went away. listen with ur ears and not with ur eyes


no you said it was his fault his mhz self pollinated, that is the breeders fault as long as it's subcool's gear though according to you. mr. nice isnt some mythic breeder where you get results every time, sometimes he sells unstable gear. hell his mhz isnt even stable IMO but that is another story. cutting the lowers would stress the plant any further, likely leading to even more balls/nanners.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

Theres alot of dumb ppl on here who if u give them advice make themselves look even dumber.


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## TheOrganic (Aug 1, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> see u had problems with mhz if u know anything about hazes if u would've just cut those lowers there wouldnt been no other problems. hazes are easy to fuck up if u dont know wat your doing.


Hmm I guess I don't know what I'm doing then. Well I have 2 other hazes that are doing fine. There's nothing haze about this MH that hermed. Also the lower flowering balls on MH were snipped of by the branch since it was small and I didn't wanna toss pollen but too late since some popped. But still I kicked outside cause I Can't have that. She/He will make good BHO.

If ya wanna bust my nuts About hazes get lost dude. I'm hard enough on myself I stated I should've look closer. Piss off


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

U can't even compare mr nice seeds to tga. U made me laugh thinking bout it. Tga is more like greenhouse seeds but regular seeds with the same out come.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Aug 1, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> U can't even compare mr nice seeds to tga. U made me laugh thinking bout it. Tga is more like greenhouse seeds but regular seeds with the same out come.


your crazy. You stooped to a new low comparing tga to greenhouse seeds.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

There's no difference between the two really. Both have a great marketing plan and both have clone only mother plants


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

Also their end product is low potency and unstable backyard breeders


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## wheezer (Aug 1, 2012)

how the hell did this bonehead eacape my "ignore button" for this long.......seeee ya...


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

Hahaha....lol


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## Grojak (Aug 2, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> your crazy. You stooped to a new low comparing tga to greenhouse seeds.



Seriously!!! TGA isn't even in the same stadium as GHS and I'm truly not a fan of GHS, but c'mon TGA can't compare to them, TGA compares better to that guy across town who accidentally pollenated his own crop.


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## ink the world (Aug 2, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> Also their end product is low potency and unstable backyard breeders


Is it possible for you to be more full of shit?

I've asked at least 5 times and you still haven't responded.


Where are the pics of your work/skills? Surely a man with your great and vast knowledge over the last 15 years would have some pictures. Put up or shut loudmouth. I have plenty of pics here, including my grows of TGA gear, let's see your work.

Without any pics you are nothing but a loudmouth that has a personal axe to grind. Pull the sand outta your vagina and post your work loudmouth. You're being called out, let's see you answer with pics not just baseless lies and bullshit uninformed opinion


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## Mithrandir420 (Aug 2, 2012)

He doesn't answer questions. Personally I think his username should be "15 months of studying online growsites".


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## Budologist420 (Aug 2, 2012)

15yearsofINbreeding


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 2, 2012)

more like 15thgenbackwoodsInbred lol


----------



## nattybongo (Aug 2, 2012)

This looks like fun. Let me try.

15yearsofgobblingcock


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## Budologist420 (Aug 2, 2012)

15yearsofbitching


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 2, 2012)

How bout 15yearsofskullfuckinYallmoms


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 2, 2012)

I see tg gays left and right nutts show'd up with private dick. Y y'all stay pissed? Where are da rest of unstable weed nerds? Trying to find a clone only plant sub hasn't fuckd up yet?


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## ink the world (Aug 2, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> I see tg gays left and right nutts show'd up with private dick. Y y'all stay pissed? Where are da rest of unstable weed nerds? Trying to find a clone only plant sub hasn't fuckd up yet?


Bla fucking bla...

Still no pics huh Sally?
Just like I said youre full of shit.

No pics, no credibility. 
Go read some more and leave the advice to those of us that actually fucking grow


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## Trulife69 (Aug 2, 2012)

15yrs, man you do seem to do a lot of TGA bashing..I simply just wanted to know other people's experience b/c of the issues I had with subs shit. His beans are not for me and I will no longer grow any of his gear. But I am not going to go to every tga post and just talk shit. Whats your deal 15yrs?? Just wondering how sub struck such a nerve with ya


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## doc111 (Aug 2, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> ya that stak guy threatened to ignore me to in my visitor message he also posted some shit in lahada's visitor message guys a joke.


lol! 

I received similar treatment from this "stak" character.


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## Doobius1 (Aug 2, 2012)

I believe he works for Mr Nice. My guess is promotions dept Shanti refers to him as 'Hey You'
Why else would someone go on like that? Never grown a TGA strain. I did. They are awesome. End of 8 weeks today, 6 strains. No nanners. My 3 vortex phenos look almost identical. My 2 black Widow phenos look nothing alike. Put your money where your mouth is 15yearsold


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## dukeblue (Aug 2, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> your crazy. You stooped to a new low comparing tga to greenhouse seeds.


So your a fan of over hyped , under yielding genetics that were basically from brothers grimm,Spice of Life and BOG?


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## intensive (Aug 2, 2012)

..with fame comes haters


Iv grown tga for a couple years now, sure a couple plants had nanners... out of many. I have experience growing many different seed companies gear but I prefer to grow flavorful stanky delicious herb. I grow tga.


if every bad beginner grower on this site didnt speak like they were overconfident weed growing superstars, I would think the world was coming to an end.


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## TheOrganic (Aug 2, 2012)

This is to much fun. 15yrsofbeingafucktardtroll


----------



## Grojak (Aug 2, 2012)

dukeblue said:


> So your a fan of over hyped , under yielding genetics that were basically from brothers grimm,Spice of Life and BOG?


To be fair BOG did use Subs Jacks Cleaner in his Lifesaver... but than again I think Jacks Cleaner was probably not a sub creation


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Aug 3, 2012)

LOL...wow this thread got a little out of hand....haha

Yummy Querkle!!!






Hate on!!!


----------



## Doobius1 (Aug 4, 2012)

Im not sure what's hotter... Your avitar or that box of Querkle


----------



## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 4, 2012)

the avatar...


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## CharlieBud (Aug 4, 2012)

Nanners are for Haters.


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## Drampire (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm about to place my first seed order and doing it up with TGA. Wanting Jack the Ripper, Vortex and Querkle. Am also getting a 10pk of mosca cinderella 99 so I'll probably have to drop 1 of tga =(. Wish the seed banks had further details on the effects. Trying to find a good head stash (jtr?) but I also want something to perk up with that has good pain relief. Ahhhh too many choices.... Am dropping my og kush I've had for the last year due to insane hermage.


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## typoerror (Aug 6, 2012)

typoerror said:


> just cut down 4 females from a 5 pack. 3 identical space queen dom pheno and 1 that was just a bit different. none showed any color and none showed any nanners. absolutely the best tasting/smelling stuff i've had.
> 
> next week i fill my flowering tent with a mix. qrazy train, qush, timewreck, dairy queen. followed by a 5 pack of ace. hope these don't hermie on me.


two qush's have gone full blown hermie @ day 29.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 6, 2012)

typoerror said:


> two qush's have gone full blown hermie @ day 29.


 ouch, newer stuff seems to be in need of more testing, maybe a new male necessary.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 6, 2012)

Ur right about needing a new male. The male he's been using shouldve been killed. U can ask sub himself about his mutant male


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## ink the world (Aug 7, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> Ur right about needing a new male. The male he's been using shouldve been killed. U can ask sub himself about his mutant male


Still waiting for pics. Bullshit artist


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## dukeblue (Aug 7, 2012)

its hater vs. fanboi lol


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## ink the world (Aug 7, 2012)

dukeblue said:


> its hater vs. fanboi lol


More like hater vs. bullshit hater.

Dude is full of shit, read through his posts and you'll see the same thing. He claims 15 years of breeding and growing, but has not 1 pic of his work.

I'm no fanboy, I do have TGA gear in my grow. If growing meds that my patients want makes me a fanboy then I'm a DNA Genetics, Female Seeds, TGA, Delicious Seeds, Reserva Privada and Mandala fanboy.

My beef is with him, I've made that very clear. I doubt the clown even grows.


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## wyteberrywidow (Aug 7, 2012)

Yikes more trannies then hunts point


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## Mithrandir420 (Aug 7, 2012)

ink the world said:


> More like hater vs. bullshit hater.
> 
> Dude is full of shit, read through his posts and you'll see the same thing. He claims 15 years of breeding and growing, but has not 1 pic of his work.
> 
> ...


He still won't answer my question either? 

What's your point 15years? What's your point?

I agree... bullshit artist. (Or it's Gypsy)


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## homebrewer (Aug 7, 2012)

Mithrandir420 said:


> He still won't answer my question either?
> 
> What's your point 15years? What's your point?
> 
> I agree... bullshit artist. *(Or it's Gypsy)*


How does Gypsy benefit from a thread like this? It's not like he has the world's largest canna-forum and a seedbank to run or anything .


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## Antlers170 (Aug 7, 2012)

how was the vortex started some a week ago just curious if u liked it or not and is it as potent as they say


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 7, 2012)

I once was ready to buy some tga seeds til one day i watched a few youtube videos. Everything subcool was saying as a breeder didn't make sense. He side a worked strain was better before it was worked and that it doesn't matter if it's the real strain or not just as long as it's dank. I watched him dance around questions by telling ppl to google articles he'd already wrote. Breeding a strain and not knowing its origin or caring if it's wat its suppose to be raise many questions, as a breeder. When he goes on rants nobody questions him, they embrace it like it's ok. The day sub stop lying is da day i stop taking. Go to his forums and see how ppl get treated. Respect is given to those who give it. I don't care who buys his seeds. But every time i here him lying imma let the truth be told. Subcool hides from the truth on these forums by deleting them and not one of his bullshit lies been deleted. He also said he's a outdoor grower...who waters a plant when it's 90 degrees outside in the middle of da day? Another lie, he doesn't know shit bout outdoor grow nor does he know anything about breeding. Nobody can name one tga hybrid that can be grown in high humidity conditions. No one can name one hybrid from tga that isn't jack herer related. Him calling himself a breeder is disrespectful to all breeders who take the time working strains. Then to watch a backyard breeder make a name off ur hard work is crazy. Subcool seeds aren't worked strains...nevilles work, grimm's work, bog's work, and shanti work.


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## typoerror (Aug 7, 2012)

better go watch a couple recent videos. he says he has no clue about outdoors and is learning as he goes. 

he didn't delete my report of hermies. 

shanti, the proven plagiarizer, good example.


on a side note, if you put this much energy into breeding the last 15 years, you would have something to show for it. you don't hate the man, you despise his success. success you wish you had...


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## kermit2692 (Aug 7, 2012)

ya 15 years...sorry...but thing is hes a stoner stoners ramble they talk, they forget what they said and then talk some more they feel good about their accomplishments and no wht he has alot to boast about i dont blame him a bit even if he imbelishes a little so what hes a good business man. ive grown outside and i watered the guerilla grow when i could and alot of times it was mid-day high heat with no ill effects...not ideal but by no means does that mean it was a lie


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## kermit2692 (Aug 7, 2012)

and p.s. to not give a company a chance that might have some killer shit you will love to keep around just based on watching youtube videos of a stoner getting high and rambling on about things he likes and cares about is kind of naive....


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 7, 2012)

Hahaha....i enjoy my success. Funny thing is i have better genetics and their more stable than anything tga has or had out. Understanding wat doesn't make a good cross makes a good breeder and knowing the male is the most Important part also makes u a good breeder. It's not those hard to find female cutting every great breeder looking for it that STUD. Females are easy to find. I grew out crosses like pineapple kush two years before dna got there hands on it. I had smoked and grew out afgt/sk x afgs/ sk....it's a strain which once cured turns black. I have it in seed form no clone only. I also have ssh x sk which is the world's best hash making plant. Nevilles Widow which is so strong Shanti himself won't release it, i only have 10 of those seeds left. Right now i'm smoking on some Richard David and it's not clone only.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 7, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> Hahaha....i enjoy my success. Funny thing is i have better genetics and their more stable than anything tga has or had out. Understanding wat doesn't make a good cross makes a good breeder and knowing the male is the most Important part also makes u a good breeder. It's not those hard to find female cutting every great breeder looking for it that STUD. Females are easy to find. I grew out crosses like pineapple kush two years before dna got there hands on it. I had smoked and grew out afgt/sk x afgs/ sk....it's a strain which once cured turns black. I have it in seed form no clone only. I also have ssh x sk which is the world's best hash making plant. Nevilles Widow which is so strong Shanti himself won't release it, i only have 10 of those seeds left. Right now i'm smoking on some Richard David and it's not clone only.


bro, your so full of shit. shanti has something "So Strong" he wont release it?


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't care if u don't believe me.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 7, 2012)

U mean to tell me that subcool is learning how to grow outdoors? Damnit man!! Hahaha all that shit he be talking and after all those magazine article he lost like a duck outta water. That's funny as hell.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 7, 2012)

The man makes i mean mixes his own potting soil because he doesn't make his own soil he uses roots. So he makes up his own potting soil mixture but can't do wat i've been doing. Hahaha!!!! Go buy all the tga seeds yall want too. Hahaha. I'll never say another bad word about him again, now i know his strains indoor bred backyard trash that can't take outdoor stress. I'm done with talkn bout....mmmm who is he? Wats his name again? Hahaha


----------



## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 7, 2012)

what do you mean his strains can't take outdoor stress, i've grown tga 3 times outdoors now and got respectable results, if you really gave a shit and did research(watching his weed nerd doesn't count) or even grew his genetics you wouldn't be bitching on a forum as if you have nothing better to do. go check budologist420's grow journal, he's got almost all tga genetics going outdoors.


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## resinousflowers (Aug 7, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> The man makes i mean mixes his own potting soil because he doesn't make his own soil he uses roots. So he makes up his own potting soil mixture but can't do wat i've been doing. Hahaha!!!! Go buy all the tga seeds yall want too. Hahaha. I'll never say another bad word about him again, now i know his strains indoor bred backyard trash that can't take outdoor stress. I'm done with talkn bout....mmmm who is he? Wats his name again? Hahaha


isnt sub releasing his own soil?he might have done it already.
sub really divides opinions.some say he's just a good salesman,some say he's a pollen chucker,and some say he's a top breeder.
i hav'nt grown any of his stuff yet,but some ppl seem to only grow his stuff these days.
i hav'nt got a problem with him.i think vaderOG and subcools channels are the best on youtube.vaderOG seems to really know his shit,he has some really nice strains too,but its hard to get his seeds.


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## Drampire (Aug 7, 2012)

Where are you selling your seeds at 15, I wanna grow some of that dunk.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 7, 2012)

Like i said he make mixtures, he uses Roots. Roots is SOIL. Worm Castings is Soil. In order for someone to make their own SOIL they would have to makeup their own dirt. He doesn't he buys roots and worm castings which is wat? SOIL. So he told another lie people believed. There's a big difference between making ur own soil and making ur own SOIL MIXTURE. Another dream sold but i'm not buying.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 7, 2012)

I never sell my seeds i pass out free 20 seed pack's at different Harvestfest and Schwag Festivals. Something TGA can never say they've done.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 7, 2012)

Just rolled up some Devil crossed with an ASH male.


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## typoerror (Aug 7, 2012)

but you care so much about subcool. you secretly in love with him?


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## dukeblue (Aug 7, 2012)

i was going to buy i bunch of TGA gear. then i saw his youtube videos which make him out to be a total tool. Imo, he is a pollen chucker who passes himself as a breeder.


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## stak (Aug 7, 2012)

dukeblue said:


> i was going to buy i bunch of TGA gear. then i saw his youtube videos which make him out to be a total tool. Imo, he is a pollen chucker who passes himself as a breeder.


you already said the same thing earlier under your other account.


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## kermit2692 (Aug 7, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> knowing the male is the most Important part


oh ok....so since sub uses the same male in almost all of his projects because he knows the importance of that as well, and has a male that he says produces trichs, makes him a good breeder then?!?!! sounds like you just dont like the guy more than anything


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## kermit2692 (Aug 7, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> The man makes i mean mixes his own potting soil because he doesn't make his own soil he uses roots. So he makes up his own potting soil mixture but can't do wat i've been doing. Hahaha!!!! Go buy all the tga seeds yall want too. Hahaha. I'll never say another bad word about him again, now i know his strains indoor bred backyard trash that can't take outdoor stress. I'm done with talkn bout....mmmm who is he? Wats his name again? Hahaha


another comment that leaves me thinking your just a troll....outdoor stress lmao..i grew outdoors first and if anything was worried about "indoor stress"...not having your temps dialed in, humidity dialed in, the fact that you can over feed easier indoors, light height, etc all those things that come with having an indoor grow are way more daunting than anything in an outdoor grow..a monkey can grow pot outdoors everything is regulated by nature....and what do you mean he uses roots lmao "he doesnt make his own soil he uses roots" that just makes no sense...


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## kermit2692 (Aug 7, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> I never sell my seeds i pass out free 20 seed pack's at different Harvestfest and Schwag Festivals. Something TGA can never say they've done.


in my last post i said you make no sense i didnt know roots is a soil name the way you wrote it out was confusing....and as for this statement of yours, sub hands out seeds for free to ppl at all the events he goes to

my bad for the three posts in a row idk how to quote from multiple posts lol


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## Devilspawn (Aug 7, 2012)

Lots of haters here. Wow. I have been growing plush. Now on gen 3 clones. Got nothing but stable girls. Fat juicy sweet smelling buds and a great tingling buzz. It's a purple pheno and current big girl looks like she will yield 3+ zips after a 6 week veg Sub. The shit is the bomb. Def gets the ladies panties off quick


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 8, 2012)

Dukeblue....must be a undercover tga special agent. But anyway...someone said that sub was good at finding male's. If that were true he would've never used that mutant and killed it. He also would have more than wat he has if that were true. Almost every thing he's produced came from that same male. So when it comes down to finding male's, meaning different studs...subcool comes in last. One male producing 10 or more different hybrids, means u only have one good male. One good male and 10 clone only mother's doesn't make u a great breeder. Great breeders work strains and dont breed for purple color. Sub is wat u call a bag appeal breeder, purple color means it's less potent.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 8, 2012)

Right now i'm smoking a mango hz joint.


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## wyteberrywidow (Aug 8, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> Sub is wat u call a bag appeal breeder, purple color means it's less potent.


Okay he is a bag appeal breader. Done now leave it alone.
Didnt you say u were not going to talk about him again? Back to behing enough already.

Please do not comment just shut up!


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## ink the world (Aug 8, 2012)

Thought you were done talking smack about the guy? Again. for at least the 3rd time; Im calling you out. I think youre completely full of shit. 

Lets see pics! Heres some of mine, i have em because I actually GROW not spend all my time spouting bullshit on a forum, So here ya go, lets see your work


Nanner free Plushberry at week 5. See all those shiny chrystaly looking things. Those are trichomes, really good medicine is covered in it. Kinda like how this will be in 3 more weeks







Heres some of that was "bred for bag appeal" Querkle, notice the trich coverage and the pretty purple color, Tastes great too Purple doesnt mean less potent all the time jackass, maybe you just need better genetics?












Gear from other breeers in my grow

Sugar Black Rose






Pineapple Express






Hashplant x Haze






Violator Kush





Sugar Black Rose


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## stak (Aug 8, 2012)

ink the world said:


> Thought you were done talking smack about the guy?


He claimed he was done and then less than two hours later he was back at it again. He couldn't even last two hours before his jealousy got the better of him. Or maybe enjoys trolling too much? He's even using a second account now (dukeblue) and repeating himself.


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## dukeblue (Aug 8, 2012)

bag appeal breeder? thats putting it nicely.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 8, 2012)

Dukeblue what's on yo mind? Notice u like wat i said and all but wats really on ur mind?


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## kermit2692 (Aug 8, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> purple color means it's less potent.


hahahaha purple doesnt just automatically mean your pot is less potent lmao....keep going guy this is comical


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## dukeblue (Aug 9, 2012)

are you a tga subcool special agent?


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 9, 2012)

That's funny...imma roll up me some nevilles widow and go watch subfool fall on his thin mints that he got from the girls scouts.


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## typoerror (Aug 9, 2012)

how come you never roll up any of your own strains?


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## vapor85 (Aug 9, 2012)

This is getting totally childish. You guy's should find another hobby instead of hating on Subcool.


----------



## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 9, 2012)

i saw a few episodes of weed nerd, annoying music half the time... who the fuck listens to megadeth anymore? they stopped being any good the moment dave mustaine went all christy and republican. not a tool fan either, i sent in a message in one episode "Play some AIC dude", he said "what's A I C?" ..... no you didnt!


----------



## nattybongo (Aug 9, 2012)

LoL, Alice In Chains? Think i've herd him play AIC before...


----------



## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 9, 2012)

nattybongo said:


> LoL, Alice In Chains? Think i've herd him play AIC before...


 i know but he said "what is A I C?" in an episode, after that i stopped watching lol. how the hell do you listen to shittalica and megadead after their last 2-3 crap albums back to back. fuck with some sepultura or racer x if anything...


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## dukeblue (Aug 9, 2012)

and how the fuck does any 50 something listen to Motorhead? im not knocking them as a band or as a live performance but we tend to outgrow bands like motorhead,white zombie and type o negative in our 20's...whats next? Kid rock or insane clown pussy?


----------



## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 9, 2012)

what should a motorhead fan move onto? justin beiber?


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## indigenou$ (Aug 9, 2012)

motorhead was dope. what are u talkin about? plus subcool is a great grower, stop hating you haters.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 9, 2012)

indigenou$ said:


> motorhead was dope. what are u talkin about? plus subcool is a great grower, stop hating you haters.


i don't think anyone here is hating on his grow skills, just the stability of the genetics he provides. motorhead is still great.


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## bluntmassa1 (Aug 9, 2012)

vapor85 said:


> This is getting totally childish. You guy's should find another hobby instead of hating on Subcool.


like what its too much fun half of yall back him up to no end its fuckin halarious.lmao


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## bluntmassa1 (Aug 9, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> i saw a few episodes of weed nerd, annoying music half the time... who the fuck listens to megadeth anymore? they stopped being any good the moment dave mustaine went all christy and republican. not a tool fan either, i sent in a message in one episode "Play some AIC dude", he said "what's A I C?" ..... no you didnt!


shit I never heard them called A I C before now and there one of my favorite rock bands but ya he plays some shitty music I stoped warching his show a while ago its kinda boring


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## Osburn (Aug 9, 2012)

During the last year, I've grown four TGA strains from seed. The Dairy Queen and Qrazy Train phenos were all over the place, but no herm issues. The Querkel phenos were pretty uniform and no herm issues. I'm running Ripped Bubba right now and half the plants I thought were females hermed two weeks into flower. I'm hoping that the Space Dawg seeds I have on deck fair better than the Ripped Bubbas. I was overall happy with the yield, taste, and potency of Dairy Queen and Qrazy Train and would buy those seeds again.


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## wheezer (Aug 10, 2012)

Osburn said:


> During the last year, I've grown four TGA strains from seed. The Dairy Queen and Qrazy Train phenos were all over the place, but no herm issues. The Querkel phenos were pretty uniform and no herm issues. I'm running Ripped Bubba right now and half the plants I thought were females hermed two weeks into flower. I'm hoping that the Space Dawg seeds I have on deck fair better than the Ripped Bubbas. I was overall happy with the yield, taste, and potency of Dairy Queen and Qrazy Train and would buy those seeds again.


This is the kind of comments this thread should be getting, honest results on what you've seen with the seeds.


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## typoerror (Aug 10, 2012)

sub must have got his bubba from swerve...


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 10, 2012)

got 1 ripped bubba female outdoors, showing signs of flowering, tossing out pistils, smells like lemon/cherry very nice so far, only 2 feet tall. 1 male, or very slow maturing lanky female. would be nice to make f2's with.


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## tip top toker (Aug 10, 2012)

wheezer said:


> This is the kind of comments this thread should be getting, honest results on what you've seen with the seeds.


Well my honest results are that the Void i grew was bullshit and utterly prone to rot. I find it strange that you pick up on a positive post to state that it is about honest results when a lot of the posts made about hermies are also honest result. People are not simply making up shit about the tga strains they've grown for shits and giggles or some personal vendetta. They've had a shit time growing them due to nanners or whatnot, and have stated as such. 

Personally i compare TGA with the likes of GHS from things i've experienced, from honest results as you put it.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 10, 2012)

Some call tga the greenhouse of the west coast. All because they both market good but sell bullshit product. They both also owe all their success wat little they do have to other hard working breeders. People of the likes of shanti, nevil, bros. Grimm, BOG, jaime, and many others. They just showing growers how to fuckup other peoples work


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 10, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> Some call tga the greenhouse of the west coast. All because they both market good but sell bullshit product. They both also owe all their success wat little they do have to other hard working breeders. People of the likes of shanti, nevil, bros. Grimm, BOG, jaime, and many others. They just showing growers how to fuckup other peoples work


vic high and bros grim still sell seeds?


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## wheezer (Aug 10, 2012)

tip top toker said:


> Well my honest results are that the Void i grew was bullshit and utterly prone to rot. I find it strange that you pick up on a positive post to state that it is about honest results when a lot of the posts made about hermies are also honest result. People are not simply making up shit about the tga strains they've grown for shits and giggles or some personal vendetta. They've had a shit time growing them due to nanners or whatnot, and have stated as such.
> 
> Personally i compare TGA with the likes of GHS from things i've experienced, from honest results as you put it.


That's the kind of comments that should be here also. I never was dickridin in here pal, in case you didn't read back far enough, like most children don't before they post, I posted my hermies in here as well, so YOUR POINT IS WHAT AGAIN??


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## ink the world (Aug 11, 2012)

Prone to rot? 
Indoors?

Yeah it's the seeds fault that your grow room humidity is off the charts.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 11, 2012)

Funny how the plants i grow can withstand high humidity. Knowing wat strain does wat means alot when breeding. Like when u use a sk male u know he's gonna add tight bud structure and eight hour flowering time


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 11, 2012)

When using an early pearl male u know it's gonna add early flowering smell and resistance to humidity


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 11, 2012)

When a strain has weak stems adding northern lights(the king of stems)


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## dukeblue (Aug 11, 2012)

man this guy has totally drank the subcool koolaid. bet hes a tga special agent too


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 11, 2012)

When u wanna add power and potency to a strain a good hz male will good al long way. I don't claim to know nothing i don't do and when u cross anything with anything u produce nothing. Knowing which genetics don't cross good isn't something every breeder know. Hazes don't cross good with some strains. From wat i've seen in the last ten years is breeders making the biggest mistakes....why? Because they don't know. Knowing how to make the right crosses to produce great stable lines....they don't know. I can put my Afg/Afgsk x Afgsk/ Afghz in any environment with no problems. Nice stable without nannas...


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## ink the world (Aug 11, 2012)

Bla bla bla loudmouth....still no pics

You really wanna argue about fucking bud rot indoors? Only a NON-GROWING fool would blame a seed for a shitty grow environment. In close to 30 fucking years of growing indoors I have NEVER had budrot indoors, nor has any grower I know.

You'd be dangerous if you knew 1/2 as much as you think
you do. Leave the advice and opinion to those of us that actually grow. and put up your pics pussy


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## st0wandgrow (Aug 11, 2012)

tip top toker said:


> Well my honest results are that the Void i grew was bullshit and utterly prone to rot. I find it strange that you pick up on a positive post to state that it is about honest results when a lot of the posts made about hermies are also honest result. People are not simply making up shit about the tga strains they've grown for shits and giggles or some personal vendetta. They've had a shit time growing them due to nanners or whatnot, and have stated as such.
> 
> Personally i compare TGA with the likes of GHS from things i've experienced, from honest results as you put it.


"Prone to rot" usually means you are dealing with very dense bud (usually a desirable trait) and do not have proper environmental controls to avoid mold/bud rot.

A dehumidifier is a wonderful little device .... give one a try sometime.


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## hammer21 (Aug 11, 2012)

Popped 5 jack the rippers got 2 females 3 of the 5 had twins and 1 twin had male and female. Tossed all twins not stable genes my guess.. Planning on cloning the keeper of jtr revegging now time will tell if she is a keeper. Popped 5 qrazy trains got 4 females 3 different phenos keeping just 1 pheno type revegging this for clones as well doing hydro. Dirt suxs.. Hope all this is worth it almost 2 months in and have not started clones or my system up yet.
One more thing one of the jtr males was mutant plant very weird the main stalk was not round but flat and had 6 nodes on each side crazy looking to bad it was male .


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 11, 2012)

i like how subcool rips off vic high and bros grim, but when you do your backyard breeding using Shanti's and nevilles genetics, its all gravy. talk about confirmation bias. 




also on a side note: the 2 voids i have going in my "stress tent" have not shown any signs of hermaphroditism, but they are lousy hybrids for sure, they got alot of the Urkel in them, which makes them slow as fuck to mature and require extra veg times, also they eat like a girl with a eating disorder, any extra and one of the voids starts getting nute burn like a motherfucker, moody bitch. if the smoke weren't bomb then i would say its one of his lackluster strains.


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## cotchept (Aug 11, 2012)

hammer21 said:


> Popped 5 jack the rippers got 2 females 3 of the 5 had twins and 1 twin had male and female. Tossed all twins not stable genes my guess.. Planning on cloning the keeper of jtr revegging now time will tell if she is a keeper. Popped 5 qrazy trains got 4 females 3 different phenos keeping just 1 pheno type revegging this for clones as well doing hydro. Dirt suxs.. Hope all this is worth it almost 2 months in and have not started clones or my system up yet.
> One more thing one of the jtr males was mutant plant very weird the main stalk was not round but flat and had 6 nodes on each side crazy looking to bad it was male .


One of my JTRs was a twin. It had a weird double main stem. I kept it and it was an awesome plant that yielded really well. The only bad part was it was a bitch to trim. 

also huge LOL @ these anti-TGA trolls. get a life. trolling a weed message board is pathetic.


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## hammer21 (Aug 11, 2012)

Someday a person will Get the (lab) DNA make up on certain strains and then produce the perfect strain free of defects and have the perfect DNA profile for every type of medical use Growing condition etc. That person will be rich......Until that day happens no one knows where any plant came from or what there DNA profile is all a crap game just got to roll the dice and hope for the best. At best any breeder can only go back Maybe 10 years on genes and they do not know where it came from it was just good stuff. marijauna has been on this planet earth for thousands and thousands of years.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 11, 2012)

Twin seeds those came from that mutant male sub's been using for years. As for me using nevilles and shanti genetic...those genetics are more stable to breed with than any other seed company.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 11, 2012)

Double stems and flat stems??? Some seem to think that flat stems are special....people like ghs.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 11, 2012)

Am i the only person who notice that tga's seeds are so dank that sub smoke's only hash and not the flowers.


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## Doobius1 (Aug 11, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> . From wat i've seen in the last ten years is breeders making the biggest mistakes....why?...


more proof your full of shit. What is it 10 or 15 years?


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 11, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> Double stems and flat stems??? Some seem to think that flat stems are special....people like ghs.


if you think mr.nice gear isnt mutant prone, guess what, IT IS. his gear is closer to landrace than modern day worked IBL's, he doesn't even do IBL's as far as i can tell. so less genetic pollution doesn't always mean less mutation because Shanti's gear has mutant plants as well, flat stems, polyploidy, unintended autoflowering, odd # leaves and buds even growing out of leafs, just like sub's gear. when i was researching mr nice gear on his forums, i came across a few threads about 30+ pages long EACH detailing customers mutants and herms... not a bad thing since i'm sure he works to correct the mistakes and listens to his customers.


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## kermit2692 (Aug 11, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> Am i the only person who notice that tga's seeds are so dank that sub smoke's only hash and not the flowers.


what does someones smoking preferences have to do with anything....your sooooo dumb dude...god what did subcool fuck your wife or something damn


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## althor (Aug 12, 2012)

kermit2692 said:


> what does someones smoking preferences have to do with anything....your sooooo dumb dude...god what did subcool fuck your wife or something damn


 Yeah, I am not quite sure what his agenda is. It would appear its to show the world what a douche is he. But for some reason I dont think that is what he is going for.


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## Mithrandir420 (Aug 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> That's funny...imma roll up me some nevilles widow and go watch subfool fall on his thin mints that he got from the girls scouts.


Subcool must have really hurt you. To obsess over him like this. To post over and over and over the same thing. Fuck dude, Subcool fucking owns you. He is so in your head that he's frikking homesteading and squatting in your mind. You can't stop posting about him because you can't stop thinking about him. You're just a puppet with an uninterested master.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Aug 12, 2012)

^^^LOL....that's perfect^^^


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## Mithrandir420 (Aug 12, 2012)

Also, on topic. Of the 5 Plushberry seeds I popped 2 were males. Of the 3 females 2 look Space Queen dominant, and one looks more indica dominant. (BCS?) All 3 are healthy and vigorous and have responded well to topping and LST.

We're going to clone this week, and hopefully put a few in to flower in a couple of weeks. Then we'll how stable these seeds are. As I only popped five and they are the only TGA seeds I have ever run, I am not going to pretend that this is going to be representative of all TGA varieties, or of even Plushberry. (Well, unless they ALL hermie.  )


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 12, 2012)

By the look at rope's seeds they using more than somebody's seed in order to make a sale. Looks like another seed company missed out on sum bag appeal seed to start a seed company. Guess all that talk about where to find great breeding plants were just a lie. Maybe one da someone use bag appeal genetics to start a company....not even the king of greenhouse ever STS anything from doctored pictured strain breeder. Remember those fake pinks and fake purplish buds in those magazines. Lol


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 12, 2012)

Not rope seeds but roor


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## NoGutsGrower (Aug 12, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> Plushberry will go herm in the WRONG conditions,


I don't know what you call wrong conditions.... but my indoor room is just about PERFECT! I grew plushberry, pink pheno week 5 hermie. Had some that stayed green that didn't start to hermie until week 8. I can't say that it was bad smoke, as it was actually very good. But I dropped it because it hermied.

out of a 10 pack I think 7 were fem/hermie


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 12, 2012)

NoGutsGrower said:


> I don't know what you call wrong conditions.... but my indoor room is just about PERFECT! I grew plushberry, pink pheno week 5 hermie. Had some that stayed green that didn't start to hermie until week 8. I can't say that it was bad smoke, as it was actually very good. But I dropped it because it hermied.
> 
> out of a 10 pack I think 7 were fem/hermie


balls or nanners? nanners are not herms but intersexing, 7 herms is rediculous.


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## NoGutsGrower (Aug 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> Am i the only person who notice that tga's seeds are so dank that sub smoke's only hash and not the flowers.


What does only smoking hash have to do with anything? I'm not defending sub's gear, just defending only smoking hash! I grow some damn good flowers yet I only smoke hash. It is much easier on my throat and no matter how good the flowers I grow are, they aren't as potent as some full melt!


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## NoGutsGrower (Aug 12, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> balls or nanners? nanners are not herms but intersexing, 7 herms is rediculous.


nanners, but I don't really see a difference. Sure the nanners aren't shaped like balls but they still work like them.


In biology, a hermaphrodite is an organism that has reproductive organs normally associated with both male and female sexes.

Intersex, is the presence of intermediate or atypical combinations of physical features that usually distinguish female from male.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Aug 12, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> Am i the only person who notice that tga's seeds are so dank that sub smoke's only hash and not the flowers.


How do you have 15 years of breeding and you make dumb ass statements like this?


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## typoerror (Aug 12, 2012)

im starting to think he's had 15yearsofliving


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## Budologist420 (Aug 12, 2012)

typoerror said:


> im starting to think he's had 15yearsofliving


That's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nattybongo (Aug 13, 2012)

We back to playing this game?
Let's try it out again:

15yearsofridingsubscock


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## bluntmassa1 (Aug 13, 2012)

nattybongo said:


> We back to playing this game?
> Let's try it out again:
> 
> 15yearsofridingsubscock


you mean 15yearsofridingshantibaba'scock don't you. lmao 

I know mr. nice is good but 15 years only talks good about them nothing about serious seeds, sensi seeds, soma seeds, dj short, paradise seeds, etc. he just talks highly of mr. nice seeds makes me think hes a mod from mr. nice forum or something.


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## nattybongo (Aug 13, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> you mean 15yearsofridingshantibaba'scock don't you. lmao
> 
> I know mr. nice is good but 15 years only talks good about them nothing about serious seeds, sensi seeds, soma seeds, dj short, paradise seeds, etc. he just talks highly of mr. nice seeds makes me think hes a mod from mr. nice forum or something.


Good point there lol.


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## dukeblue (Aug 13, 2012)

do these tga defenders wear capes and leotards when they post here?


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## tip top toker (Aug 13, 2012)

ink the world said:


> Prone to rot?
> Indoors?
> 
> Yeah it's the seeds fault that your grow room humidity is off the charts.


nothing wrong with the grow humidity, every single plant i have ever grown has been just fine including strains with far greater density than the void but this one couldn't hack it in the exact same conditions. To me that means that the strain was shit. Think what you like i'll think what i like. If 99 strains can grow in an environment just dandy and 1 can't then i personally consider it totally fair to say that it's shit in comparison to the other strains  Personally i like solid genetics, not those that have to be molleycoddled


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## ink the world (Aug 13, 2012)

Like I said earlier man, over the course of 2+ decades of growing Ive never had budrot indoors. No growers I know have ever had budrot issues indoors. 
In my group of friends that grow we've collectively grown 1,000's of strains indoors, never had budrot. Whats you humidity level?

I live on the coast of Maine, humidity here is always high. No rot issues, granted I move tons of air in and out. Now outdoors is a different story. Outdoor growers here fight rot every year.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 13, 2012)

I grow outdoors where the humidity gets as high as 80%.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 13, 2012)

Most strains being bred now aren't ready for my outdoor world that's y when u do put them in harsh conditions they act up and some even stall. All these big name hybrids but half of them i consider weak lines because most of them have never see a 100 degree day with the humidity at 60%.


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## homebrewer (Aug 13, 2012)

ink the world said:


> Like I said earlier man, over the course of 2+ decades of growing Ive never had budrot indoors. No growers I know have ever had budrot issues indoors.


Bud rot can be the result of pollen-chucked genetics, or plants just grown/bred for the drug trade, as they may lack the ability to produce some type of moldicide. Chitinases are a defense and supposedly a few terpenes have been shown to have fungicidal properties as well. 

Now I'm not saying environmental factors don't play a role with the majority of today's hybrids, but when one is producing F1 beans by chucking pollen on to clone-onlys, they're not thinking about anything else other than money.


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## wheezer (Aug 13, 2012)

Well, now that we are on this subject, I'll say this...TGA genetics are definitly more likely to get PM than alot of other genetics. I'll admit, my indoor grows in the winter, I always battle PM and always have some in my room. So yes, it's my fault mostly, but, I have lots of strains I can run all winter and get no PM. Just about every TGA strain I've grown indoors in my messy room has caught it, and usually got it worse than any others. IDK, if there is anything you can do when breeding that would cause that, other than the genetics being weak or whatever. Now I don't go round blaming the breeder for my PM issues, but I could surely praise genetics that make it through my abuse and don't catch it!!......RIGHT??


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## wheezer (Aug 13, 2012)

But, I'm not bashing TGA, just sharing my experiences....lke right now I'm high as hell on some super tasty Qrazy Train I just finished up.......YUM!!


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## ink the world (Aug 13, 2012)

wheezer said:


> But, I'm not bashing TGA, just sharing my experiences....lke right now I'm high as hell on some super tasty Qrazy Train I just finished up.......YUM!!


Thanks for sharing your experiences. That's the way to do it, with honestly and without personal attacks.

15yearsofbreeding just gets under my skin, he brings out the worst in me


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## UnionBlvd (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm medical, I bought my first seeds. Tga Plush 5 pack, 2 girls, 2 diff pheno's. We can't keep them from throwing bananas at week 5-6. We've grown plenty of diff strains side by side, with zero problems. 


Mithrandir420, plz come back and give us your results..


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## typoerror (Aug 16, 2012)

my plushberry was amazing. extremely uniform, no hermie, very resinous. if it had yielded better it would have been a keeper. 



typoerror said:


> two qush's have gone full blown hermie @ day 29.


im now going to have seeds consisting of qush x dairy queen, qush x sweet black angel, qush x og13 and qush x time wreck. probably hermie prone but i may get a gem. im looking at you qushtimewreck...


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## althor (Aug 17, 2012)

typoerror said:


> my plushberry was amazing. extremely uniform, no hermie, very resinous. if it had yielded better it would have been a keeper.
> 
> 
> 
> im now going to have seeds consisting of qush x dairy queen, qush x sweet black angel, qush x og13 and qush x time wreck. probably hermie prone but i may get a gem. im looking at you qushtimewreck...



Wow, I think this is the first post I have ever seen that included plushberry and uniform in the same post.

I havent had that luck, but I will say Plush is one of my prefered smokes.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Aug 17, 2012)

TGA has great genetics. Some of them just need to be treated with extra love and care or they will hermie. But i believe more than half the strains out there will hermie if you stress them out really bad. And the stress im talking about specifically is over feeding. Im smoking querkle right now. One of the phenos i have threw out alot of bananas this harvest that i painstakingly plucked out  But after a slow dry it smokes very good and just after a few days curing it tastes wondeful.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 17, 2012)

That's why some breeders stress test their plants under different conditions before releasing the seeds. As a seed buyer u should already know wat that plant can take. But with tga seeds you're gonna have problems because of that mutant male sub uses, but should've killed. U shouldn't have to baby a plant. Every hybrid i make can with stand stress because thats wat i'm looking for in a plant. All these new breeders just make crosses never thinking about making a hardy plant.


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## typoerror (Aug 17, 2012)

althor said:


> Wow, I think this is the first post I have ever seen that included plushberry and uniform in the same post.
> 
> I havent had that luck, but I will say Plush is one of my prefered smokes.


i know! i was not expecting that all from what i read. i also read plush berry wasn't the strongest smoke, but mine was some of the best i have ever smoked. definitely in my top two for high and number 1 for taste and smell. the few people that were lucky enough to get some from my greedy hands all said it was by far the best they ever had and are begging me to run it again.



15yearsofbreeding said:


> That's why some breeders stress test their plants under different conditions before releasing the seeds. As a seed buyer u should already know wat that plant can take. But with tga seeds you're gonna have problems because of that mutant male sub uses, but should've killed. U shouldn't have to baby a plant. Every hybrid i make can with stand stress because thats wat i'm looking for in a plant. All these new breeders just make crosses never thinking about making a hardy plant.


you mad bro?


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 17, 2012)

No i'm not mad. Sub made that choice to keep that male around for breeding. It's not me with the problems. Why be mad at some one for making their one bad choices.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Aug 17, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> That's why some breeders stress test their plants under different conditions before releasing the seeds. As a seed buyer u should already know wat that plant can take. But with tga seeds you're gonna have problems because of that mutant male sub uses, but should've killed. U shouldn't have to baby a plant. Every hybrid i make can with stand stress because thats wat i'm looking for in a plant. All these new breeders just make crosses never thinking about making a hardy plant.


so tell me which tga strain can take stress? Because i love these plants so much i'll always grow at least 1 well proably 6


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## typoerror (Aug 17, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> No i'm not mad. Sub made that choice to keep that male around for breeding. It's not me with the problems. Why be mad at some one for making their one bad choices.


yet you go on and on...


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## althor (Aug 17, 2012)

typoerror said:


> i know! i was not expecting that all from what i read. i also read plush berry wasn't the strongest smoke, but mine was some of the best i have ever smoked. definitely in my top two for high and number 1 for taste and smell. the few people that were lucky enough to get some from my greedy hands all said it was by far the best they ever had and are begging me to run it again.
> 
> 
> 
> you mad bro?


 Well, I am not going to say the females I have had have been what I consider "potent". But its certainly a good feeling buzz and the smells and tastes are really good. I may be an oddball potsmoker but I dont like to be ripped ALL the time. Alot of the time I just like a nice, smooth buzz.


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## kermit2692 (Aug 17, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> That's why some breeders stress test their plants under different conditions before releasing the seeds. As a seed buyer u should already know wat that plant can take. But with tga seeds you're gonna have problems because of that mutant male sub uses, but should've killed. U shouldn't have to baby a plant. Every hybrid i make can with stand stress because thats wat i'm looking for in a plant. All these new breeders just make crosses never thinking about making a hardy plant.


dude just go away already...pages ago you said the male is the most important thing while breeding...and subs male isnt a mutant that shouldnt be bred with, if your calling it that due to the fact that it produces trichs your just stupid that is not a mutation its awesome and he obviously picked a good male..your jealous, its ok, subs on the top rung but dont worry little guy every ladder needs a bottom rung to climb it so your needed..feel better yet?


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## Da Almighty Jew (Aug 17, 2012)

i kinda like 15yearsofbreeding. Keep on with it keeps me entertained.


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## thump easy (Aug 17, 2012)

talking about unstable i was woundering if big blue ozinator in the exzost beems back into the hood after lights are out will the light afect the plants???


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## thump easy (Aug 17, 2012)

its was my first cherry poping ex with the big blue??


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## kermit2692 (Aug 17, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> i kinda like 15yearsofbreeding. Keep on with it keeps me entertained.


well if were talking entertainment purposes hes tipping the scale but informational purposes.....eh lol...anyway who doesnt have a cool fake name after 15 years of breeding lol jkjk


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## Doobius1 (Aug 17, 2012)

My last run included Space bomb, Chernoyble, Jackthe Ripper, Agent orange, Vortex (3 phenos) and Plush (2 phenos). Its all good smoke. The only one I'm keeping around is JTR. Tastes a lot like my Sensi Jack Herer haze pheno that I lost. Both SB and AO threw a few nanners late in flower but there were no full blown herms. Lots of stress too as I moved mid grow


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## Da Almighty Jew (Aug 22, 2012)

Im kinda pissed off that basically all of subcools strains are a mix of c99 and romulan. Im thinking why try all of his strains? they are all pretty much similiar. I was looking at the space dawg and i like that but then im reading about the genetics and it is snowdog(or something from chem family) with romulan and cindy99. just like everything else. Id rather get alphakronik snowdog 2 instead of spacedawg. I bet it is better smoke too. Or if it is just as good that is good enough for me because then at least i have diferent genetics instead of a mix of a bunch of the same strains over and over.


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## stealthweed (Aug 22, 2012)

^^Thats kinda a bad argument as all Seed Companys have there signature strain like Alien Genetics Alien Kush, CC SFV/Tahoe, big budda cheese etc. thats normal seed business.and still just because its mostly Space Queen crosses one can't say they are all the same, just similar traits maybe...wonder what you guys think Qush or Ripped Bubba?Will most likely run both though hopefully get a female on both...


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## bluntmassa1 (Aug 22, 2012)

stealthweed said:


> ^^Thats kinda a bad argument as all Seed Companys have there signature strain like Alien Genetics Alien Kush, CC SFV/Tahoe, big budda cheese etc. thats normal seed business.and still just because its mostly Space Queen crosses one can't say they are all the same, just similar traits maybe..


not all breeders thats what I like about mr. nice hes got a bunch of great classic strains and serious seeds has some great smoke but a lot of there strains are crossed with ak-47 but not all also sensi seeds and dutch passion etc. most all the breeders that have been around for a while don't make crosses like tga, rare dankness,etc. where they have one good male to 15+ crosses. thats why I won't buy from these newer breeders theirs plenty of great well bred strains out there that are just as good if not better not to mention the prices these new breeders charge for a cross I can make myself with time and patience.


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## dukeblue (Aug 23, 2012)

kermit2692 said:


> well if were talking entertainment purposes hes tipping the scale but informational purposes.....eh lol...anyway who doesnt have a cool fake name after 15 years of breeding lol jkjk



Or maybe 15yearsofbreeding is not a TGA nancy boy like the lot of you. I lol at you noobs overpaying for the same lame c99 x romulan strains with a new flashy name stamped on it so the man can pay for some implant upgrades.


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## NoGutsGrower (Aug 24, 2012)

I haven't grown enough tga stuff and have heard some good reviews so I can't trash talk him, but some of you cling to his nuts way too much!!! A lot of you act like some one just called your mom a whore, when all they did was say that their crop hermied! If you grow TGA strains and they don't hermie then more power to you but quit getting butt hurt over people sharing their experiences with the strain! STRESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLUSH BERRY GOING HERMIE, IT IS IN THE GENETICS! Might as well call it HERMBERRY!


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## NoGutsGrower (Aug 24, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> TGA has great genetics. Some of them just need to be treated with extra love and care or they will hermie.


See what I mean.... How are they great genetics if they have to be treated with extra love and care to not hermie? Isn't that one of the main reasons people practice selective breeding... There are 1001 other strains out there that will grow just as good, when tested will have the same thc, cbd. etc. content. I'm still not trying to say all his genetics are bad, Just saying if they hermie they are far from great genetics... They are not even "good" genetics if they hermie... They are "WEAK" genetics if they hermie!


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## typoerror (Aug 24, 2012)

my plushberry was amazing and herm free. qush on the other hand, 2 females that were full blown hermie.


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## NoGutsGrower (Aug 24, 2012)

first two are nugs I got from subcool at the S.F. cup. Notice the tga rolling tray under them.

plush berry 10 pack


My plush berry



typoerror said:


> my plushberry was amazing and herm free. qush on the other hand, 2 females that were full blown hermie.


herm free as in no balls and no bananas, or did it have bananas? some people seem to think that doesn't count as herm... lol!

If you got one that doesn't do either, Congrats! From all the reviews I've seen you got a rare one there... It was really nice, smelled amazing and tasted awesome when I grew it. Honestly mine was better than the plushberry Subcool gave me at the S.F. Medical cup, his was still good that's why I wanted to grow it. I found another strain that's just as nice.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 24, 2012)

Subcool once said a worked strain was probably better before it was worked. As a breeder myself i couldn't believe he believd that but from the work he's done with his hybrids, wat he thinks isn't true at all. He also once said he only received one dollar per seed...hell he'd be better off giving dem away because they're as unstable as hell.


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## typoerror (Aug 24, 2012)

NoGutsGrower said:


> herm free as in no balls and no bananas, or did it have bananas? some people seem to think that doesn't count as herm... lol!
> 
> If you got one that doesn't do either, Congrats! From all the reviews I've seen you got a rare one there... It was really nice, smelled amazing and tasted awesome when I grew it. Honestly mine was better than the plushberry Subcool gave me at the S.F. Medical cup, his was still good that's why I wanted to grow it. I found another strain that's just as nice.


100% herm free and uniform as fuck too. popped five seeds and got one male. three where exactly the same in almost every way. same size, same shape, same extreme frost, same color and the same smell until week 5. the fourth one was just a bit taller but still the same structure and color. they were all space queen dom and low yielders but the taste, smell, and high was amazing. definitely one of the best smokes i have ever experienced. still got the other half of that pack to run.


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## Marley15 (Aug 24, 2012)

2nd run of plush for me, can go back to page 1 and see what I said about run #1...

This go around I cut my organic soil mix, made a big difference on the purple pheno. I've pulled 2 nanners off of her this go around, about to hit week 7. Battling high temps and mites..again. The other two are hermi free. For those of you getting hermi's how strong are you feeding her? My opinion is to back it waaay off, especially the bcs phenos. SQ phenos seem stable, especially the small super dank one.


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## Bad Karma (Aug 24, 2012)

Just picked up 20 Ripped Bubba seeds for my final California grow.
I'll let you guys know if I have any issues.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 24, 2012)

Bad Karma said:


> Just picked up 20 Ripped Bubba seeds for my final California grow.
> I'll let you guys know if I have any issues.


i got 2 of those girlies now from a 5 pack. smell pretty different, 2 phenos, 1 tall and stacked with nodes and budsites, the other is shorter bushier and sprial bud forming, showing signs of nute burn, gotta ease off nutes on the shorter more bubba pheno.


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## Daemonn789 (Aug 26, 2012)

NoGutsGrower said:


> See what I mean.... How are they great genetics if they have to be treated with extra love and care to not hermie? Isn't that one of the main reasons people practice selective breeding... There are 1001 other strains out there that will grow just as good, when tested will have the same thc, cbd. etc. content. I'm still not trying to say all his genetics are bad, Just saying if they hermie they are far from great genetics... They are not even "good" genetics if they hermie... They are "WEAK" genetics if they hermie!


This would only be true if plants didn't hermie from stress. Even what you might consider the "most elite" can go herm from stresses. Ignorant to say if a plant hermies then it's automatically bunk genetics. 

Do you believe in fem seeds?


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## Redeye Bri (Sep 7, 2012)

Long thread here. I admittedly haven't read through it all. I remember reading that he has a male that is crossed with a lot of his strains that is the culprit of a lot of hermies. So, my question is, does he have older strains or certain strains that are more stable? A lot of his stuff looks great, but I don't want to deal with hermies. Thanks.


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## matt1420 (Sep 8, 2012)

TGA Subcool has some really dank strains. I have grown quite a bit of them myself, and I can say that they are not stable. I have had no herm issues, not one. But every pack that you buy, every seed in said pack will have quite a bit of variation. They are f1 hybrids I believe, which would account for the variation. They are not worked, stable, strains! Again though, I would completely recommend buying any TGA gear if you are looking to find something special for your headstash.


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## NoGutsGrower (Sep 8, 2012)

Daemonn789 said:


> This would only be true if plants didn't hermie from stress. Even what you might consider the "most elite" can go herm from stresses. Ignorant to say if a plant hermies then it's automatically bunk genetics.
> 
> Do you believe in fem seeds?


Ohhh shit... sorry let me correct the only thing wrong with that...

Just saying if they hermie (*under light or moderate stress or in stress free conditions like tga subcool's Plush Berry*) they are far from great genetics.

Now if you were bright enough you would have read the post I replied to and understood I was talking about plush berry and strains that weren't stressed! Sorry my stoner ass got a little vague there but I didn't think you were ignorant. Judging from the like count on the post you quoted, it seems most people understood...
( Originally Posted by Da Almighty Jew 
TGA has great genetics. Some of them just need to be treated with extra love and care or they will hermie.)


I've tried fem seeds and have had great success with them! I have 2 Iced Grapefruits that are 9ft tall and packing on weight. I've take clone after clone and have never had a hermie issue. But would I start a breeding project with one.... NO! Right now my only breeding project is back crossing some Orange Og I got from Wheezer (a buddy is crossing a bunch of stuff with the Orange OG). Once those seeds are ready I have some DJ short (A breeder that stabilizes his strains before releasing them not just selling untested F1 hybrids) Azura Haze seeds I will be crossing to the Orange OG.

Once again I will say that the Plushberry Was some really nice Smoke. Ask anyone that was at the RIU BBQ. My plush berry was good smoke besides the fact the it is an UNSTABLE STRAIN!!!


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## YODA OG 0420TGA (Sep 8, 2012)

Fuck you i had dj shorts blueberry herm and the california master kush. Thoe the aos and plush are some what weak there the only tga gear i have seen herm. The qush and querkle have a 9 out of 10 are female so all strains are different so dont be straight up bashing the green avengers


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## YODA OG 0420TGA (Sep 8, 2012)

Daemonn789 said:


> This would only be true if plants didn't hermie from stress. Even what you might consider the "most elite" can go herm from stresses. Ignorant to say if a plant hermies then it's automatically bunk genetics.
> 
> Do you believe in fem seeds?


Fuck you i had dj shorts blueberry herm and the california master kush. Thoe the aos and plush are some what weak there the only tga gear i have seen herm. The qush and querkle have a 9 out of 10 are female so all strains are different so dont be straight up bashing the green avengers​


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## NoGutsGrower (Sep 8, 2012)

matt1420 said:


> TGA Subcool has some really dank strains. I have grown quite a bit of them myself, and I can say that they are not stable. I have had no herm issues, not one. But every pack that you buy, every seed in said pack will have quite a bit of variation. They are f1 hybrids I believe, which would account for the variation. They are not worked, stable, strains! Again though, I would completely recommend buying any TGA gear if you are looking to find something special for your headstash.


Looks Like I didn't even really need to reply again... Matt kinda hit the nail on the head, even if you haven't had hermie issues (although most plush berry growers have). It is not a stable strain.


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## NoGutsGrower (Sep 8, 2012)

YODA OG 0420TGA said:


> Fuck you i had dj shorts blueberry herm and the california master kush. Thoe the aos and plush are some what weak there the only tga gear i have seen herm. The qush and querkle have a 9 out of 10 are female so all strains are different so dont be straight up bashing the green avengers​



LOL... Getting a little butt hurt (tga in user name... LOL!!! fucking priceless)??? It's okay! I heard tga was leaving RIU but I swear I saw him post after he made that video saying he was leaving... he should still be around for you to suckle on his balls! That sucks you fucked up your DJ short stuff! Everyone knows you fuck up good genetics stressing them, That's why I corrected the only part of my post that was flawed! Matt1420's post should be pretty clear for you. Tga strains are F1 (untested/unstable) Dj shorts shit is back crossed and tested before sold!


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## NoGutsGrower (Sep 8, 2012)

matt1420 said:


> TGA Subcool has some really dank strains. I have grown quite a bit of them myself, and I can say that they are not stable. I have had no herm issues, not one. But every pack that you buy, every seed in said pack will have quite a bit of variation. They are f1 hybrids I believe, which would account for the variation. They are not worked, stable, strains! Again though, I would completely recommend buying any TGA gear if you are looking to find something special for your headstash.





YODA OG 0420TGA said:


> Fuck you i had dj shorts blueberry herm and the california master kush. Thoe the aos and plush are some what weak there the only tga gear i have seen herm. The qush and querkle have a 9 out of 10 are female so all strains are different so dont be straight up bashing the green avengers​


........... My DJ Short Blueberry were all almost identical, none of this different pheno shit and no hermies! Maybe I should add DJ Short to my user name..... well since I'm not growing his stuff right now and I don't suckle at his balls I probably won't!


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## Bad Karma (Sep 8, 2012)

All 20 of the Ripped Bubba seeds that I planted, sprouted.
75% of the RB's are as big or bigger than the Godberry seeds that had a weeks head start.
This is my first TGA grow, and so far, so good.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Sep 8, 2012)

i have 1 girl looking short and squat around week 3-4 of flower and smells like cherry lemonade, great trich production, no signs of PM or mold, the nute burn subsided and she's packing on weight  the other taller girl smells like coffee and fuel, really dank smell very nice looking, probably the better of the 2, 5-6 more weeks and i should have them in jars. this is what i got from a 5 pack, with 20, im sure you will find something worth keeping as headstash.


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## antimatt3r (Sep 8, 2012)

I like TGA; Querkle is a good purple strain, Agent Orange is KILLER great yields and easy.


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## kountdown (Sep 12, 2012)

I am wrapping up my first TGA grow: Cheese quake at almost 8 weeks of flower and looking like its going to need another week. From a 5 pack I got 2 females which became mothers. I've watched my first gen clones very carefully for nanners because of some the forum talk and never found any. Thought I was in the clear until I spotted seeds a week ago. Went through each clone up and down and still didn't find any nanners. I figure they must be very small and I won't find them until I go through and trim. I gotta say, its very disappointing considering I had high hopes for this strain and its the only thing I have going right now. My next group of clones is 3 weeks into flower and I will be checking them meticulously while I start the process of going to a different strain.


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## skunkd0c (Oct 1, 2012)

Jar Man said:


> No such tide has turned except in your mind. The numbers who still praise TGA faaaaaaaaar, did you hear that? I said, faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the few wanna' be breeders on here. Let's hear someone actually try to say Vortex isn't really that good, or bash Qrazy Train. Most all review sites claim they're among the best of the best. They all TGA paid mouthpieces, or what?


Typical responce from a cheerleader above 
if you enjoy strains from any breeders weather they be popular with hipsters or not that is fine 

but please stop putting them on pedastals , anyone is free to dislike any strain .. get over your hero worship already 

peace


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Oct 1, 2012)

^^
Right. If the guy deserved to be worshiped his genetics wouldn't have endless phenotypes and herm issues.


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## Redeye Bri (Oct 1, 2012)

Are any of sub's strains stable, like maybe some of his older strains such as Jillybean?


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## althor (Oct 1, 2012)

Redeye Bri said:


> Are any of sub's strains stable, like maybe some of his older strains such as Jillybean?


 No, none of them are stable, none. Doesnt mean you wont get some really nice phenos though.


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## Clankie (Oct 1, 2012)

Well, for what its worth, I now have a small amount of experience with TGA's beans, and it turned out more or less the way I thought it would. I grew the two dairy queen freebies and two chernobyl freebies from the attitude out, got two female dairy queens, one very, very short and most likely yielding around 30g, and one of average hybrid size that will be more in the 90-110g range. Both have exceptional trichome production, but were terrible cloners. No herm problems. I also ended up with a male and female chernobyl, the female being of exceptional quality. Incredible levels of frost, and a very pleasing scent, in addition to very unique foxtaily buds. This one did clone well, and will be definitely kept for future runs. Again, no herm issues. 

This is super limited experience, but based on it, I would consider running a lot of TGA's strains. I think that while you are likely to see extreme phenotype variation with most of their strains, they use many solid genetics, although it does seem like perhaps they have one or two strains with a higher-than-usual herm rate. I think you are much more likely to see herms from companies that reverse clone only strains, and perhaps breed them with strains that are themselves the progeny of reversed clone only strains. That seems like asking for trouble.

That said, TGA could definitely use a better and more public testing system. Perhaps if they had that in place, there would be less issues with the herm-prone strains; although berry strains in general seem to have slightly higher herm rates.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Oct 1, 2012)

Redeye Bri said:


> Are any of sub's strains stable, like maybe some of his older strains such as Jillybean?


his romulan dominant "The Flav" is pretty uniform, so is "The Void", very little variation in these crosses from my experience.


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## LakeShoreGirl (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm reviving the never ending thread. Just finished up with a Dairy Queen, Mandala #1, and Elephant Stomper run. Secret Jardin DR150 tent. Quantum 16 tube Badboy T5 fixture. Ocean Forest soil with Nectar For The Gods Nutrients. 20 clones in 1gallon bags backfilled in a Botanicare 4x4 tray. Day 40 nanners popping up all over the Dairy Queen. In 15 years I have never seen anything like it.....I have Jack the rippper...Agent Orange...Vortex..,and Chernobyl beans, but I'm very wary in popping them indoors. Not too happy with my first time with TGA genetics.


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## Clankie (Dec 9, 2012)

LakeShoreGirl said:


> I'm reviving the never ending thread. Just finished up with a Dairy Queen, Mandala #1, and Elephant Stomper run. Secret Jardin DR150 tent. Quantum 16 tube Badboy T5 fixture. Ocean Forest soil with Nectar For The Gods Nutrients. 20 clones in 1gallon bags backfilled in a Botanicare 4x4 tray. Day 40 nanners popping up all over the Dairy Queen. In 15 years I have never seen anything like it.....I have Jack the rippper...Agent Orange...Vortex..,and Chernobyl beans, but I'm very wary in popping them indoors. Not too happy with my first time with TGA genetics.


J
My dairy queen girls didn't herm, but weren't awesome. How did the Mandala #1 come out?


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## razzmatazz82 (Dec 9, 2012)

Querkle was pretty stable. And Plush Berry had minor herm issues but nothing too bad. Agent Orange was terrible for me.


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## truepunk87 (Jan 2, 2013)

I've only popped 4 TGA seeds, 2 Chernobyl and 2 ace of spades. Got a female from each 
Chernobyl  AOS   
No herm on these 2, but I won't be spending any more money on TGA gear when there's equal or better quality available for much less


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## dirtysouthgenetics (Jan 2, 2013)

Popped 2 AOS and 2 FLAVs and all are female..1 AOS @ 3wks....These are my first TGA seeds...very impressed ....gonnna run more TGA strains in tha future...


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## Grojak (Jan 2, 2013)

TGA are not stable, sub "prefers to let the customer find his favorite pheno" his words not mine. He's sold people on the idea that it's a good ting, but it fucking blows!!! If 10 Super Silver Haze clones from 10 people who popped MR Nice seeds you're going to see many many similarities. I've had 2 different Dairy Queens that were unlike any of the 3 phenos I grew, my keeper being very heavy Lemonade but very low yielding (thinking C99 dom) Those were 3 good females but the Deep Purple I ran was shit and the 1 that was decent hermed, JTR pollinated a room. 







LakeShoreGirl said:


> I'm reviving the never ending thread. Just finished up with a Dairy Queen, Mandala #1, and Elephant Stomper run. Secret Jardin DR150 tent. Quantum 16 tube Badboy T5 fixture. Ocean Forest soil with Nectar For The Gods Nutrients. 20 clones in 1gallon bags backfilled in a Botanicare 4x4 tray. Day 40 nanners popping up all over the Dairy Queen. In 15 years I have never seen anything like it.....I have Jack the rippper...Agent Orange...Vortex..,and Chernobyl beans, but I'm very wary in popping them indoors. Not too happy with my first time with TGA genetics.



I donated 2 packs of TGA recently to a grower, Chernobyl and Snowdawg, wasn't worth the hassle of hoping they don't herm imo


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## Xenos87 (Jan 2, 2013)

Grojak said:


> TGA are not stable, sub "prefers to let the customer find his favorite pheno" his words not mine. He's sold people on the idea that it's a good ting, but it fucking blows!!! If 10 Super Silver Haze clones from 10 people who popped MR Nice seeds you're going to see many many similarities. I've had 2 different Dairy Queens that were unlike any of the 3 phenos I grew, my keeper being very heavy Lemonade but very low yielding (thinking C99 dom) Those were 3 good females but the Deep Purple I ran was shit and the 1 that was decent hermed, JTR pollinated a room.
> 
> Subcool is one of the few people that actually listens to feedback hes every where if you know where to look. Handing out tips and putting his name and face on the genetics, sure he has alot of grower do the growing for him today but hes like 50 hes been doing this shit longer then iv been alive im 23 and love growing thats all i do but if im 50 still doing all the bitch work than i think i would need to rethink some things. He laid the foundation and is letting us do the rest unlike alot of breeders subcool stands in front of his genetics and doesnt hide behind them like most. All the weed nerds out there know what im talking about, first of all TGA doesnt sell fem seeds so you bitchin about herms means you must have some issues with your room any reg seed has herm tendicies and will do so if treated wrong. I just reacently orderd chernobyl and qrazy train planted 3 of each and was blessed with the TGA curse all 6 turned out female. And trust me i tried to get males for breeding purposes i ripped one out of my powergrower and put it in soil 1week into flower and left the spidermites on it to ensure a male, and it turned out to be the one that had the most trichoms on it. My chernobyls were small in the yield department but thats it every thing else was on point qrazy train turned purple and i even got a lime slurpee pheno on the chernobyl side here is some pics to show appreciation to subcool and to discredit all the haters first 3 are chernobyl the others are qrazy train


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## kermit2692 (Jan 3, 2013)

Grojak said:


> TGA are not stable, sub "prefers to let the customer find his favorite pheno" his words not mine. He's sold people on the idea that it's a good ting, but it fucking blows!!! If 10 Super Silver Haze clones from 10 people who popped MR Nice seeds you're going to see many many similarities. I've had 2 different Dairy Queens that were unlike any of the 3 phenos I grew, my keeper being very heavy Lemonade but very low yielding (thinking C99 dom) Those were 3 good females but the Deep Purple I ran was shit and the 1 that was decent hermed, JTR pollinated a room.


i know you have been around here a while and i think ive seen some things that made me assume your an ok grower but i have to hesitantly agree, you have another problem its not the breeder causing your hermies guy....not to mention you find variants in every pack sold by every company...ya he may say to clone out your favorite pheno but thats just because why wouldnt you not because he is the only company with multiple phenos. dude its genetics you can back cross a plant til you turn blue and you will still get variation. on his agent orange i saw 3 different plants all bud and grow very similar to each other, with very similar smells. its all a crap shoot no matter what company it is.


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## kermit2692 (Jan 3, 2013)

also seriously xeno!?! "left the spider mites on to try and force a male" ahhhhh hahahahahahahahahaha


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## homebrewer (Jan 3, 2013)

kermit2692 said:


> i know you have been around here a while and i think ive seen some things that made me assume your an ok grower but i have to hesitantly agree, you have another problem its not the breeder causing your hermies guy....not to mention you find variants in every pack sold by every company...ya he may say to clone out your favorite pheno but thats just because why wouldnt you not because he is the only company with multiple phenos. dude its genetics you can back cross a plant til you turn blue and you will still get variation. on his agent orange i saw 3 different plants all bud and grow very similar to each other, with very similar smells. *its all a crap shoot no matter what company it is*.


It really isn't a crap-shoot when a _breeder_ actually works a 'strain' instead of just crossing other's crosses. Sure, there will always be variation from seed but the degree of variation is what real breeders try to minimize. Pollen-chucked f1s have their place, so do original, worked, stable strains. It just depends on the goals of the consumer.


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## Grojak (Jan 3, 2013)

You enjoy smoking those mites, I've nothing more to say to you rookie...



Xenos87 said:


> Grojak said:
> 
> 
> > TGA are not stable, sub "prefers to let the customer find his favorite pheno" his words not mine. He's sold people on the idea that it's a good ting, but it fucking blows!!! If 10 Super Silver Haze clones from 10 people who popped MR Nice seeds you're going to see many many similarities. I've had 2 different Dairy Queens that were unlike any of the 3 phenos I grew, my keeper being very heavy Lemonade but very low yielding (thinking C99 dom) Those were 3 good females but the Deep Purple I ran was shit and the 1 that was decent hermed, JTR pollinated a room.
> ...


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## Pipe Dream (Jan 3, 2013)

I know this is an old topic, but look at the strains used to create JTR. http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Jack_the_Ripper/TGA_Subcool_Seeds/

^How could you possibly expect anything stable when it is made up of so many different ancestors? Personally, I haven't grown any TGA seeds to mention, but stable probably not.


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## Xenos87 (Jan 3, 2013)

Like i said for breading purposes only but i know its hard to read. If im going to add some ones genetics to my room and to my own personal seedbank i want to make sure they can handle anything and wont herm. The topic is if subcool genetics are stable and seeing how i spent over a 100$ on his shit i want to know what im working with. I live in a state where if all you are smokeing is spidermites your lucky, im not a little picky bitch a couple of years ago i was smoking some resin from some mids now iv got all the strains i could ever want thanks to people like subcool and all the other breaders and suppliers so i will show my appreciation for his genetics. And the fact that i didnt get one bannana on any bud no ball sacks nothing thats good enough for me iv had mutiple problems with herms from DNA but most of the time thats because of over fert or too heavy on the bat guano. But i dont talk shit on them becuase of my mistakes and iv been running DNA for over 2 years now still got chocolope,sourcream running in rotation. Some more Qrazy train and chernobyl


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## Juan0288 (Jan 4, 2013)

I grew cheese quake for almost 9 months, it produced real nice for me n flowered in 53 days for me. I rly liked ace of spades n vortex, although my space queen Dom pheno threw nanners round wk 6. I've had some Chernobyl n DQ beans for bout a yr soi cracked em recently. I'm not impressed w.the DQ in any way, although the Chernobyl I have, 2 phenos, r very frosty n my short one is the lemon lime girl. I also have 2 phenos of tres sister from top dawg at same age, one is chem d Dom n the other is Chem sister Dom, n they're just as frosty as the Chernobyl and the buds r twice as big. 

Now I know TGA dsnt select for weight, but the trich production is equal or a little higher on the chem genetics. Dnt get me wrong I'm impressed w.my lemon lime girl for sure, but the other Chernobyl has that earthy smell which isn't my cup of tea. 


I used to rly like TGA, I thought there strains sounded nice n I had good results. I liked my a13 vortex better anyway so I wldnt of kept that pheno anyway. My issue w.tga now n y I won't buy his genes anymore is subs attitude w.his customers. If u look back at his threads n posts from 08-09 he was very humble n appreciative of thanks n praises he was given, and generally had a good attitude. But 2010 n on he became rude n his responses to me felt like he thought he was better than the nxt guy. I saw the thread where he said BCS was a kush bc he sd it was. I thought that was a little arrogant from some1 askin a ? bc ppl wna know bout a new strain of urs b4 they buy it. I've seen him attack ppl for sayin they got a hermie from his beans. I guess I feel like I wld be more appreciative of my customers as I became more successful, n he does the opposite. 


I'm the kinda person who loves the subtle differences in dif strains, which is why I always find myself ordering new strains. I still have a few vortex n Chernobyl left which ill prolly run 1 day but I won't be ordering anymore beans from TGA, n like I said my grows from TGA have gone well overall but I dnt wna support some1 who I feel like thinks his shit dnt stink n he cando no wrong, n who has not only himself but a group of loyal growers that he keeps close that r rdy to lay into ppl for voicing there issues w.tga gear. I think if he acted how he did a few yrs ago I'd support all day, but ppl change n unfortunately he did for the worse imvho


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## Juan0288 (Jan 4, 2013)

A perfect example wld be I made a thread in subs section to ask if any1 cld help me identify which Chernobyl pheno was leaving to which parent, one tall w.minimal branching n the other short n bushy. I said I know the strain wasn't stable so they cldnt tell me exacts like bloom time, yield etc. so besides oriah(I believe that was correct name, I apologize if wrong), I had a cpl regulars tell me that 1, TGA strains were stable bc being stable means they wldnt herm, n then they just dismissed my ? N 3 dif ppl made remarks bout my post sayin they cldnt read it, n obv had to be derogatory in there remarks even when I apologized n explained I meant it wasn't stable in phenotypes. I also explained I use my iPhone to post so didn't see how my post looked like one big f'd up paragraph, I was at wrk. Of course I got no help besides from 1-2 ppl, but they weren't "weed nerds". They all left, it's like u gta be on subs crew to get help over there, bc I was respectful n polite yet they still blew me off bc I said Chernobyl wasn't stable.


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## Grojak (Jan 5, 2013)

Juan0288 said:


> A perfect example wld be I made a thread in subs section to ask if any1 cld help me identify which Chernobyl pheno was leaving to which parent, one tall w.minimal branching n the other short n bushy. I said I know the strain wasn't stable so they cldnt tell me exacts like bloom time, yield etc. so besides oriah(I believe that was correct name, I apologize if wrong), I had a cpl regulars tell me that 1, TGA strains were stable bc being stable means they wldnt herm, n then they just dismissed my ? N 3 dif ppl made remarks bout my post sayin they cldnt read it, n obv had to be derogatory in there remarks even when I apologized n explained I meant it wasn't stable in phenotypes. I also explained I use my iPhone to post so didn't see how my post looked like one big f'd up paragraph, I was at wrk. Of course I got no help besides from 1-2 ppl, but they weren't "weed nerds". They all left, it's like u gta be on subs crew to get help over there, bc I was respectful n polite yet they still blew me off bc I said Chernobyl wasn't stable.


He used to be a WA grower, was all the rave, than he was in Oregon all the rave I hear he is working Cali now, not long til Cali growers realize what WA peeps did a few years ago and he'll have to move out to Michigan or something as local growers realize how horrible TGA is as a whole and stop supporting it. It's funny if you look at sites that list dispensaries you can see that seeds for 5pack are like $55 tops, a year ago they were $70 lol most places in WA have them for 50 or 55


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## Trulife69 (Jan 5, 2013)

You would be blown away how many people are on the tga bandwagon in the northwest. That's mostly what everyone grows and mainly what shops carry for seeds. Theres n doubt you can find & grow some decent weed. Its more about them being stable. You can find a good pheno and grow some good weed but its a pain. So many variations and unstable bitches but if you want to pop a ton of beans and pluck a lot of bananas and spend some time searching for that 1 pheno then go for it..Not for me. Soon as I dropped tga from the grow room I couldn't be happier


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## kermit2692 (Jan 5, 2013)

Juan0288 said:


> A perfect example wld be I made a thread in subs section to ask if any1 cld help me identify which Chernobyl pheno was leaving to which parent, one tall w.minimal branching n the other short n bushy. I said I know the strain wasn't stable so they cldnt tell me exacts like bloom time, yield etc. so besides oriah(I believe that was correct name, I apologize if wrong), I had a cpl regulars tell me that 1, TGA strains were stable bc being stable means they wldnt herm, n then they just dismissed my ? N 3 dif ppl made remarks bout my post sayin they cldnt read it, n obv had to be derogatory in there remarks even when I apologized n explained I meant it wasn't stable in phenotypes. I also explained I use my iPhone to post so didn't see how my post looked like one big f'd up paragraph, I was at wrk. Of course I got no help besides from 1-2 ppl, but they weren't "weed nerds". They all left, it's like u gta be on subs crew to get help over there, bc I was respectful n polite yet they still blew me off bc I said Chernobyl wasn't stable.


lol welllllll i can see why people gave you crap "fir th way u rite" using ? for question and n for and....how old are you guy!?!?! loljk


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## Juan0288 (Jan 5, 2013)

Lol man it's tough typing on the iPhone, I just make my life a little easier. I guess that's reason to be a dick to some1, bc I abbreviate things? Gimme a break, Id rather type the way I do rather than act like a lot of ppl I see around here.


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## TooDope1904 (Jan 6, 2013)

Just got 5 regular seeds of TGA Jack Skellington seeds from SowAmazing. I'll report back when I begin my grow with them.


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## kermit2692 (Jan 6, 2013)

hey just saying the truth is people form opinions of others instantly and alot of people will immediately see you as a punk or stupid or young because you type like that..i mean removing the o and u from couldnt is not an abbreviation lol its more like speaking in slang and is probably something you got stuck in and used to doing so you dont notice how stupid it looks..wrk one letter saved yes!! loljk.. so if you were in front of me id expect you to talk like a punk gangster thug type guy or else a 14 year old kid...so thats the sound you convey when you type like that which puts you at an immediate disadvantage when speaking to people you dont know online that can only make their opinion based on your typing...my point overall in the first place tho is i highly doubt people jumped down your throat because they like tga or were "weed nerds" lmao truth is your typing style is just super annoying to read


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## kermit2692 (Jan 6, 2013)

now IIIII sound like a dick lol...believe it or not im trying to help...maybe use swype?? everyone hates it but as soon as you get fast you make less mistakes like the harder you try to make a word the worst it turns out but go fast and dont care and it works like a charm


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## Trulife69 (Jan 7, 2013)

I find it more annoying to read your comment kermit..Don't you have something better to do than to bash the guy. The only reason I come on here is to further my knowledge or share my experience's..Type how you want juan,f*ck tga and their fan club.
Now..Kermit if the way someone writes on riu is what your on these forums for then I have a thread for you..Look up "new atempt at breading!!! Jernal or gernal" Member name "thump easy"
You have to look it up man...His writing is something else..Poor bastard can't spell but it's pretty comical trying decode his posts. Haha just look at the title but he does do some neat shit.

*[h=1][/h]*


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## Grojak (Jan 22, 2013)

Trulife69 said:


> You would be blown away how many people are on the tga bandwagon in the northwest. That's mostly what everyone grows


LOL really dude, you're so unaware it's sad, you need new grower frields.


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## Trulife69 (Jan 26, 2013)

More people grow tga in the northwest than anywhere else. I didn't say people didn't grow out any other breeders. A lot of people grow other breeders shit. I was just saying tga is popular in the northwest and a ton of people grow out his shit. Go into any dispensary in the northwest and tell me what beans you can walk out with.. Sad to say,it's mostly tga beans. Think Im unaware all you want grojak but thats a good portion of what people grow up here. Just look on craigslist in the seattle area. Sure you will find other weed but 75% of it's tga. So suck a dick grojak


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 26, 2013)

Damn so hostile...


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## gagekko (Jan 26, 2013)

TGA has good genetics - there's no doubt. But maybe they should spend a little more time trying to lock down the good and weeding out the crap


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 28, 2013)

gagekko said:


> TGA has good genetics - there's no doubt. But maybe they should spend a little more time trying to lock down the good and weeding out the crap


Its all about the money! Very few care about the mj comunity! Tga isnt one of them just watch his vids lol
what a joke!


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## Greenthumbz1984 (Jan 28, 2013)

I dunno about TGA from what I read here its a resounding NO. 
However, my story differs from some of those I read... I just picked up some vortex, Jack the Ripper, and it came with a 5-pack freebie of plushberry... I got a HORRIBLE germ rate on the vortex, 4 of 10 popped, yet 3 females, no nice phenos came from there. Yet the plushberry that people seem to have trouble with 4/5 popped, 4/5 fem, 0/4 hermied. N my choice pheno was beautiful fruity smelling, tons of trichs, n heavy yielding (about 6zips on a 3foot bush).. So I guess what I'm saying is, TGA seems to be a mixed bag of results.. As I had heard only good things about the vortex, and bad about the plushberry. I am going to germ the JTR's tonight cause I'm a complete idiot/procrastinator and I flipped my plushberry n decided to wait till I came back from vacation (1.5 weeks) to take cuttings... Needless to say she was too far into flowering n I scrapped what woulda been 36 great clones... Due to not being interested in allowing them to revert to veg.. Time is of the essence, got some sugar berry clones (Joey weed) off my buddy for this round till I grow out the JTR's n start the selection process all over again... Better not be like the vortex!


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## oldschooltofu (Feb 5, 2013)

agent orange (1 girl from 5 seeds)
no hermies, big buds, weak branches, good potency

chernobyl (1girl from 5 seeds)
super super frosty, no hermies, great taste, medium potency


qrazy train (1 girl from 5 seeds)
very frosty, no herms, didnt like the taste, medium potency, low yeild, nice color. lots of sugar trim
no keeper

Dairy queen (2 girls from 5 seeds)
good yeilds, one pheno was better than the other but it threw a few nanners. very easy to become tollerant to. great taste, amazing taste. very easy to trim
didnt keep. great for morning or once a day smoke, but when i smoked it all day it was pointless at night.

AOS (3 phenos from 5 seeds) im getting better....haha
pheno 1 and 2 are exactly the same. but both are throwing nanners bad at 5-6 wks. nice color. medium yeild. have not smoked yet.
pheno 3 is much shorter but fatter buds, more indica, no purple just green. no nanners, yet. very slow growing...2+month veg time.
will not keep.
This could be some kind of stress. im still trying to figure out why they are throwing nannners...got three more half way through, hope i can fix the problem before week 6


Timewreck (1 pheno from 5 seeds)
very frosty....this is actually one of the frostyist plants i have seen in a long time. no nanners yet (in the same tent as AOS right now, but under a different hood). looking like very low yeilds (dont know if this is my fault yet), have not smoked yet.


his older strains seem to be more stable
still have 3D, spacebomb, and pandoras box to try
like many said before. the strains are worth it if willing to put in the work or selecting. would not recomend planting less than 10 seeds


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## dankydonky (Feb 5, 2013)

hey man..you're fkn unlucky dude..what a joke! lol all males


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## Fishslayer420 (Feb 5, 2013)

Great...I just ordered dairy queen. Lol


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## v1sual (Feb 7, 2013)

I grew querkle from TGA. only popped 2 seeds one female and one male. made f2's and some hybrids 
with. the female was some great smoke. superb taste and a
potent speedy high. everyone I gave some too was asking for more.
BUT.. out of the two crosses I made using the querkle male, both 
hermied. just a couple sacks towards tthe bottom , nothing too bad . IMO the genetics were worth the 
very few seeds/pollen sacks I saw . some sstrains just have that tendency .


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## bluntmassa1 (Feb 8, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Tga isnt one of them just watch his vids lol
> what a joke!


thats only if you don't mind being dumbed down a bit if you like it your hopeless,lol.


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## oldschooltofu (Feb 25, 2013)

oldschooltofu said:


> AOS (3 phenos from 5 seeds) im getting better....haha
> pheno 1 and 2 are exactly the same. but both are throwing nanners bad at 5-6 wks. nice color. medium yeild. have not smoked yet.
> pheno 3 is much shorter but fatter buds, more indica, no purple just green. no nanners, yet. very slow growing...2+month veg time.
> will not keep.
> ...



so my purple pheno AOS was a light leak from my new cool tube. i put a bigger bend in the ducting and problem solved.
my purple pheno tasts pretty good. not as tasty as chernobyl or DQ, but still quite tasty. wish i would have kept a clone. made a harsh decision....ohh well lots more strains to try. my green indica pheno is on round 2. i hope i get a better yield this time.

my timewreck is stable, but i had bug and ph issues. so i am waiting on round 2 to see if it can be a keeper yield wise. it tasts good. super tric production. very white in color. i cloned it.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Feb 25, 2013)

oldschooltofu said:


> so my purple pheno AOS was a light leak from my new cool tube. i put a bigger bend in the ducting and problem solved.
> my purple pheno tasts pretty good. not as tasty as chernobyl or DQ, but still quite tasty. wish i would have kept a clone. made a harsh decision....ohh well lots more strains to try. my green indica pheno is on round 2. i hope i get a better yield this time.
> 
> my timewreck is stable, but i had bug and ph issues. so i am waiting on round 2 to see if it can be a keeper yield wise. it tasts good. super tric production. very white in color. i cloned it.


yea dairy queen wasthe best tasting/smelling herb ive ever grown, berry danish and licorice flavour, so unique and was pronounced in blunt all the way til the roach. Had 2 girls, plan to grow some tga in the future again, got vortex, chernobyl, agent o, qrazy train and ripped bubba clones in veg, flowering some c99 f3's frome trichome jungle and autoflowers
Im breeding, as soon as i have room ill make a tent full of the clones and start a journal.


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## gagekko (Feb 26, 2013)

Dropped two freebie seeds: querkle and qleaner... Still in veg, slow growing... from the looks of it, one male and one female - got them mixed up so not sure which is which  

I think this is querkle:



And I think this is qleaner:


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## Rising Moon (Feb 26, 2013)

Querkle is notoriously slow to veg...


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## SliverMeMembers (Feb 26, 2013)

I don't post much, but I have to say that the negativity here is very disturbing. No reason to hate on ANYONE so much unless they killed people or raped kids. I'm not calling out anyone because they are criticizing Subcool and/or TGA for strain stability or the occasional hermie, it's the persistence and vitriol of the dialogue in general. If you have a valid complaint, make your case and move on. Same if you had a great grow. The arguing is childish and small.

Let me say this... I have bought seeds from all over the place. BC Bud Depot. A couple of Dutch companies. BreedBay. Attitude, etc. Many breeders... Subcool. DJ Short. DNA Genetics. Sagarmatha. Serious Seeds. Elite Genetics. Soma. Outlaw Genetics... and more. And I honestly haven't grown out 3/4 of them all because of my limited grow space. But in growing out over a dozen strains by 7-8 breeders or so over the last 5 years I'll say that I only have only found 3 "keepers" so far... Kali Mist, Jilly Bean and Querkle. Yes, my Nebula was good, as was my Lemon Skunk. The buds on my NYC Diesel were huge! But there's something special about these three that make we want to keep them forever (or until I find something even better!). 

I found the Kali early on, it's an IBL and I also have Western Wind seeds from Sagarmatha that I have yet to grow out, they're supposed to be the original lineage or so they say. It's the very best high I've found and I love the taste. I found my Querkle 3 years ago, I have a great Urkle-dominant mother I've kept. It smells skunky and musty and purply and taste great, although it doesn't really taste like grapes to me unless you vaporize it. I found my Orange Poop pheno Jilly Bean last year, and OMG! It's the fucking bomb! By FAR my favorite plant! It has a strong skunk and orange-zest smell during flower, and keeps it during the cure. Tastes like oranges too, but the hash is WILD. Great up high, very strong. Her sister plant was Space Queen dominant, very short and slow and didn't yield a lot but it was killer bud! Zero orange smell but had a weird, industrial chemical smell which was nice, but it didn't come close to the smell and taste of the Orange Poop pheno. It was probably a little bit stronger too, more couch-lock, although I found them both to be very strong!

The only hermies I found so far were from Elite Genetics. I guess he went to jail anyways. His Chemdog threw up hermies that seeded my entire crop. I could hate on him for that, but why? I had a bad experience and I won't use his gear again. I may have some killer stuff of his that I will never get to see because I had a bad experience. Or, it could have all been crap. Either way, if you have a bad experience you can't fault someone for not wanting to buy again.

Some other notes....

Was stoked to try Flo from DJ Shorts. Ordered from Attitude, got seeds in the original breeder pack, cracked my seeds, sexed them and grew out 4 identical plants. Dried and cured as I always do, the end product had no nose, tasted like yard clippings and the famous "motivating high" was nowhere to be found. All I got was some sort of muddy middle-of-the-road high. I threw it all away. This guy is supposed to be the shit, a real breeder, right?

Also tried to grow Blueberry from DJ Short. All the plants were sickly and weak, didn't want to grow. Two females in flower hermied 4 weeks in. Plants, seeds and any desire to experiment with DJ Short now gone. No hate, just the facts.

Before Jilly but after Querkle, I tried Vortex from Subcool out. First 4 seeds I cracked were MALES! I found ONE female out of the next three I cracked. She was healthy and vigorous in veg, cloned well, and was beautiful in flower, just like the pictures. Dried and cured like I always do, she lacked any kind of nice smell and didn't taste very good either. Like tree leaves again. Worse, I didn't like the high, it was a hybrid high, neither up or down, but it kind of put me in a bad mood then an hour or two later I would crash on the couch. Yuk. Amazingly, after 6 months of not touching the stuff, I opened a jar and took a whiff. I pulled out a bud and ground it up. YES! There it was, the pink-lemonade smell! I smoked it and... nothing. No taste. Same cruddy high. So I could go on about how cruddy Sub's gear is, but you know what? It was ONE pheno! I KNOW they aren't all like that. This particular plant was missing some of the terpene profile that is probably in the "keeper" phenos, so while I know that it still doesn't make me want to grow out another Vortex run. Instead, and almost hesitantly, I am growing out 4 Apollo-13 BX plants now. They're young and in veg right now, I'll probably sex them this summer. I guess I am determined to find an Apollo dominant plant to see what's it's all about.

Will I find it? Maybe! Maybe not. Either way, I know the risk. I might even get hermies. If so, note it and go to the next thing. Not gonna cry like a bitch or swag around like I'm some fuckin' gangsta ready to pop a cap in Sub's ass. It's easy to be a punk. Be a man.

Sliv


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## Budsworth (Feb 26, 2013)

I just got 5 DairyQueen beans from TGA. They came in a brown glass vile. The beans are REAL small & by the looks they are sad looking seeds. I know that dont mean crap until you grow em out. I hope i get at least 2 girls from the batch.


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## Rak on Tur' (Feb 26, 2013)

Never understood brand loyalty/ hatred. I've grown a few tga crosses, I think JTR is one of the better 8 week strains I've had. Agent orange and pandoras box was good to. That said I found ace of spades to be about average, and wasn't impressed with kaboom.

I will still buy tga stuff, overall it's been pretty good. Jc2 is what I'm trying next. I've tried a few different breeders, serious, mr nice, chimera, dj short, and Tom hill. Can't say I have gotten a total junk strain from any of them. With f13 I had a low germ rate, but knew about that going in and bought a few packs anyways. End product was with it, to me anyways.


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## apollo4 (Mar 3, 2013)

I've never got a herm with over twenty strains .they all pop too.one of my favorite breeders


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## DirtyDiesel (May 5, 2013)

Ok so I'm fairly new to grown been through a couple cycles and have down multiple statins of tga "qrazy train.. Jack the Ripper.. 3-d.. Space Jill" all had a different story to tell but mostly all strains had a hard time Germn and ones that did ofcourse u had a couple males.. I will say 3-d and qrazy train had a great ratio and awesome phenos.. But jack and Jill I found nanners and all that you are sayn.. I find Jtr is the hardest statin to gt down for me by far.. Hearing all this makes me really scard to go back to tga even though I've only tried one other strain "sky walker og" and all phenos were keepers and all beans germed.. I got jack goin now and my querkle didn't even come in.. So we will see.. But for future strain buying I may go Cali connection.. Or serious seeds.. In respects to sub the ladies I did keep we amazing smoke jus the price to get them keepers is hard to maintain.. Obviously the other two breeeders aren't cheap but it seems there is a more of a success rate there


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## Redeye Bri (May 5, 2013)

DirtyDiesel said:


> Ok so I'm fairly new to grown been through a couple cycles and have down multiple statins of tga "qrazy train.. Jack the Ripper.. 3-d.. Space Jill" all had a different story to tell but mostly all strains had a hard time Germn and ones that did ofcourse u had a couple males.. I will say 3-d and qrazy train had a great ratio and awesome phenos.. But jack and Jill I found nanners and all that you are sayn.. I find Jtr is the hardest statin to gt down for me by far.. Hearing all this makes me really scard to go back to tga even though I've only tried one other strain "sky walker og" and all phenos were keepers and all beans germed.. I got jack goin now and my querkle didn't even come in.. So we will see.. But for future strain buying I may go Cali connection.. Or serious seeds.. In respects to sub the ladies I did keep we amazing smoke jus the price to get them keepers is hard to maintain.. Obviously the other two breeeders aren't cheap but it seems there is a more of a success rate there


Why don't you try more by Reserva, given your success by them? I only popped one Sywalker and it's a definite keeper.


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## tampee (May 6, 2013)

Budsworth said:


> I just got 5 DairyQueen beans from TGA. They came in a brown glass vile. The beans are REAL small & by the looks they are sad looking seeds. I know that dont mean crap until you grow em out. I hope i get at least 2 girls from the batch.



I've had some small seeds before but they where all fully matured and looked healthy. are you saying these are premature looking or what? cause there really aint an excuse to sell someone premature seeds that's just bad quality control its not like your not getting 100's of seeds from one plant unless the guy harvested too soon which would be even worse. but I've never actually tried tga theirs just so many strains that are more interesting too me then too buy crosses I could make myself. I've also never been too disappointed with the breeders I choose too buy from that actually work their strains sure polly hybrids have their place like super silver haze but these guys are just going way too far imo. their just bottlenecking the gene pool that's why you don't see road kill skunk anymore.


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## tampee (May 6, 2013)

bluntmassa1 said:


> their about as stable as a phillipino hooker


well that about sums it up.......lol


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## John Dieselman (Mar 31, 2016)

Sub is a weed geek. I watched an interview with Sub, DJ Short, Ringo and another breeder. And was almost embarrassed for Sub...he seems like he'd be cool to hang with for about an hour...tops. but, on the other side of the coin. The man has been THE key player in moving on from OG...with genetics that are just as classic as OG. Sannies is my choice. Great breeders, genetics, and friendly. I dig friendly. . . Friendly and CHEAP AS HECK. Lastly Soliloqueen I'd sooo much better than Jilly . It's simple math. Easier to grow, cheaper, bigger yield, smell, taste, affect, jar appeal. Unless you prefer less for more. Kinda like people who prefer a dive bar, cuz worse is better? I don't get it.


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## John Dieselman (Mar 31, 2016)

I couldn't agree more Tamp. I mean "POLY~HYBRID"??? So much "breeding" going on here. I'll start laughing outloud sometimes as I'm tracing the family tree of Chernobyl or any of the Jack the Ripper strains. Overkill? IDK, I will say I'm all for it because it does make the best medicine. . But I'll take that ROAD KILL any day of the week over 3 TGA strains I've tried. It's just better FOR ME. Uplifting Happy ...uh MOTIVATED! Yep. Grows like a skunk, smells like a dead skunks ass, tastes so bad it's good with just the slightest hint of fruit. It's like this ridiculous OG Kush stuff. One of my favorites, but how many OGs do we need people hahaha. And the best OGs are the classics....SFV, FIRE , LARRY, LOUIS! After that you've got some headbands that are really good and a few OF crosses. Then it just gets RIDICULOUS. Seedfinder has something like 7000 strains. That's a lot. Give me a couple packs of Mr Nice Guy's dream and enough time and numbers and I could probably recreate any strain out there today by using three-way crosses with the following...Afghan, skunk, haze, northern lights (after they hit it with thai)


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