# Vote no on prop 19!



## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

So alot of people i know are voting NO on prop 19. If this law is passed, our medicine will be taxed to hell and back... no more 10-20 dollar grams! try about $23.19 per gram.... and up. The state is going to tax the fuck out of us... The doctor at the clinic i go to is telling everyone to vote no on 19. 

I as a grower personally could care less if its legal or not, im legal already....

Im personally not gonna vote (gotta work) but i dunno if its going to get passed this time around... maybe next time???

thoughts???


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## fdd2blk (Nov 1, 2010)

it's a law that your employer give you time off to vote. GO VOTE!!!!!!


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## jesus of Cannabis (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> *
> I as a grower personally could care less* if its legal or not, im legal already....


so why state an opinion if you dont care?


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

jesus of Cannabis said:


> so why state an opinion if you dont care?


just wondering if anyone has heard of it being taxed....


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> it's a law that your employer give you time off to vote. GO VOTE!!!!!!


i didnt know that..... shit ill vote yes i guess... make it easier on everyone else... i doubt its going to pass tho...


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## Kerovan (Nov 1, 2010)

only an idiot that was brainwashed or criminals that want to maintain a stranglehold on supply to keep the price artificially high would vote no on this.


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## Kerovan (Nov 1, 2010)

if it doesn't pass this time, there probably won't be a next time. Conservatives will say "Look, the people voted and don't want it. Quit trying to force something on them that they don't want."


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## Snickelfrits (Nov 1, 2010)

cant we even go on rollitup without having to deal with political advertising  lolz


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

Kerovan said:


> only an idiot that was brainwashed or criminals that want to maintain a stranglehold on supply to keep the price artificially high would vote no on this.


I THINK THATS THe point.... growers wont be able to sell their hard work for as much as they do to the clinics.... right now were getting thousands per pound of medical herb... the price will go way down if its legal no?


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## Kerovan (Nov 1, 2010)

the price should drop eventually if it becomes legal. How quickly and how much is anybodies guess. there are still going to be people that will pay a premium for premium smoke though. Just like alcohol where you can buy a $6 bottle of store brand whiskey or a $250 bottle of Jonnie Walker Blue.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

Kerovan said:


> the price should drop eventually if it becomes legal. How quickly and how much is anybodies guess. there are still going to be people that will pay a premium for premium smoke though. Just like alcohol where you can buy a $6 bottle of store brand whiskey or a $250 bottle of Jonnie Walker Blue.


you know what i didnt think about that!!! fuckin a your a pretty smart dude... (person?) fuck it im voting yes... i was just worried about resale value.... +rep


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## kudaross (Nov 1, 2010)

Prices would stay relative to what they are now I believe. But as soon as it's legal nationwide, you might as well say hello to $5 grams of some kill. Just my opinion.

I see this passing.


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## mojoe561 (Nov 1, 2010)

Vote yes on Prop 19... The details of the law can be worked out later in the courts. Legal weed is good no matter what the taxes.


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## fdd2blk (Nov 1, 2010)

mojoe561 said:


> Vote yes on Prop 19... The details of the law can be worked out later in the courts. Legal weed is good no matter what the taxes.


propositions can only be changed by the voters. it can NOT be fixed later. it is what it is.


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## mistaphuck (Nov 1, 2010)

Kerovan said:


> the price should drop eventually if it becomes legal. How quickly and how much is anybodies guess. there are still going to be people that will pay a premium for premium smoke though. Just like alcohol where you can buy a $6 bottle of store brand whiskey or a $250 bottle of Jonnie Walker Blue.


woot for johnnie walker


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## Warrentheape (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> So alot of people i know are voting NO on prop 19. If this law is passed, our medicine will be taxed to hell and back... no more 10-20 dollar grams! try about $23.19 per gram.... and up. The state is going to tax the fuck out of us... The doctor at the clinic i go to is telling everyone to vote no on 19.
> 
> I as a grower personally could care less if its legal or not, im legal already....
> 
> ...


I love it hearing how passionate people are over this issue but have some kinda excuse why they are not voting.
Yes, it's true that your employer can give you time off to vote.
Have you ever heard about mailing your vote in ?
If you have time to post on riu I'm pretty sure you can figure out how to vote.
Polls stay open pretty late and open pretty early. Do you work the exact hours the polls are open ?

If Prop 19 is gonna stand any chance of passing THE VOTES HAVE TO BE THERE !!!!!


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

Warrentheape said:


> I love it hearing how passionate people are over this issue but have some kinda excuse why they are not voting.
> Yes, it's true that your employer can give you time off to vote.
> Have you ever heard about mailing your vote in ?
> If you have time to post on riu I'm pretty sure you can figure out how to vote.
> ...


ok ok ill vote yes i said it already... like i said, just worried about the prices dropping... and how high the tax is going to be


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## fdd2blk (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> ok ok ill vote yes i said it already... like i said, just worried about the prices dropping... and how high the tax is going to be


dude, don't blow it, vote no.


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## bajafox (Nov 1, 2010)

jesus of Cannabis said:


> so why state an opinion if you dont care?


He does care...but he _could_ care less, he just care's enough to come on here and start yet another Prop 19 thread before Tuesday


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

bajafox said:


> He does care...but he _could_ care less, he just care's enough to come on here and start yet another Prop 19 thread before Tuesday


pretty much... just nervous thats all....


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## Sure Shot (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> The doctor at the clinic i go to is telling everyone to vote no on 19.


Now that's a unbiased opinion. LOL!
How much money do you think this doctor stands to lose if, and or when, this passes?


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> So alot of people i know are voting NO on prop 19. If this law is passed, our medicine will be taxed to hell and back... no more 10-20 dollar grams! try about $23.19 per gram.... and up. The state is going to tax the fuck out of us... The doctor at the clinic i go to is telling everyone to vote no on 19.
> 
> I as a grower personally could care less if its legal or not, im legal already....
> 
> ...


So since you're legal you don't give a fuck if other people can smoke it or not? Seems pretty selfish to me. Medical marijuana is already taxed... and where did you get the 23.19 figure? Seems like a pretty specific number. 

The reason the doctor at the clinic is telling you to vote no on 19 is because he can't make an easy living selling medical marijuana and will have to start practicing real medicine (like he should). I can't stand these Pot Docs leeching off prohibition.


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## bajafox (Nov 1, 2010)

At least you're honest

It hasn't looked good for Prop 19, it lost steam and it seems to be tipping towards No every day, we'll see tomorrow when all the votes are finally in.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> Now that's a unbiased opinion. LOL!
> How much money do you think this doctor stands to lose if, and or when, this passes?


well.... when i went, the doctor saw 3 of us at once and we were in and out of there in less than 10 min.... i only paid $42 for my card (had a coupon) and everyone else was paying $80... and the waiting room was full the whole time i was there (people kept walking in) and the girl at the front desk said its like that all day... so... alot of money???


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> ok ok ill vote yes i said it already... like i said, just worried about the prices dropping... and how high the tax is going to be


You just said the prices are going to be high now you're worried about the price dropping? What? What's wrong with the prices dropping?


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

plsfoldthx said:


> So since you're legal you don't give a fuck if other people can smoke it or not? Seems pretty selfish to me. Medical marijuana is already taxed... and where did you get the 23.19 figure? Seems like a pretty specific number.
> 
> The reason the doctor at the clinic is telling you to vote no on 19 is because he can't make an easy living selling medical marijuana and will have to start practicing real medicine (like he should). I can't stand these Pot Docs leeching off prohibition.


um... i dunno where you live.... but its not taxed where i come from... sorry...


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## fdd2blk (Nov 1, 2010)

all i did was break my back and blow out my knee. two pinched nerves, 13 screws and a plate later and i have them all fooled.


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> well.... when i went, the doctor saw 3 of us at once and we were in and out of there in less than 10 min.... i only paid $42 for my card (had a coupon) and everyone else was paying $80... and the waiting room was full the whole time i was there (people kept walking in) and the girl at the front desk said its like that all day... so... alot of money???


 LOL wow. That doctor should be investigated.


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> um... i dunno where you live.... but its not taxed where i come from... sorry...


 Uh, ever hear of a sales tax?


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

plsfoldthx said:


> You just said the prices are going to be high now you're worried about the price dropping? What? What's wrong with the prices dropping?


the price of selling your fuckin harvest is dropping!!! so making thousands of dollars selling your herb at the clinic in a day is going to be a thing of the past....


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## Sure Shot (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> well.... when i went, the doctor saw 3 of us at once and we were in and out of there in less than 10 min.... i only paid $42 for my card (had a coupon) and everyone else was paying $80... and the waiting room was full the whole time i was there (people kept walking in) and the girl at the front desk said its like that all day... so... alot of money???


Exactly!
Can you not see how a stream of money coming through your front door, would influence your opinion?
Since this is self-evident, his opinion should fall deaf upon your ears.(or at least taken with a grain of salt.)


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## irieie (Nov 1, 2010)

i dont think legalization will raise the market price. its already pretty much legal in CA and prices are higher there than in some illegal markets across the country. supply might increase due to legalization, but so will demand. if anything demand for the best buds will go up in effect raising the price. also production will become constrained to 25 ft sq, limiting the amount each grower can produce. dont worry people will always want to smoke good pot ad they will always be willing to pay for it. think about all the work and time that goes into growing a #. the price is not overly inflated in my opinion and does not have that much room to move.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

plsfoldthx said:


> Uh, ever hear of a sales tax?


um... yeah but our medicine is not taxed... they say $20 a gram and thats exactly what you pay.... $20


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

irieie said:


> i dont think legalization will raise the market price. its already pretty much legal in CA and prices are higher there than in some illegal markets across the country. supply might increase due to legalization, but so will demand. if anything demand for the best buds will go up in effect raising the price. also production will become constrained to 25 ft sq, limiting the amount each grower can produce. dont worry people will always want to smoke good pot ad they will always be willing to pay for it. think about all the work and time that goes into growing a #. the price is not overly inflated in my opinion and does not have that much room to move.


this is true... i didnt think of that when i posted the thread...


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> the price of selling your fuckin harvest is dropping!!! so making thousands of dollars selling your herb at the clinic in a day is going to be a thing of the past....


I don't sell weed.


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> um... yeah but our medicine is not taxed... they say $20 a gram and thats exactly what you pay.... $20


 Regardless if it's on your receipt or not the dispensaries pay taxes which influences the price of a gram.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 1, 2010)

plsfoldthx said:


> LOL wow. That doctor should be investigated.





fdd2blk said:


> for what?


Ya, He should be investigated,.........for employment! Maybe he needs a doorman.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

plsfoldthx said:


> Regardless if it's on your receipt or not the dispensaries pay taxes which influences the price of a gram.


i just dont think its fair if all of a sudden its legal and we have to start paying a tax on our medicine...


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> i just dont think its fair if all of a sudden its legal and we have to start paying a tax on our medicine...


 I think going to jail for your medicine is a bigger issue than having to pay a few extra bucks.


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## irieie (Nov 1, 2010)

its kinda fucked up that people are so scared due to the seemingly dire state of the economy, that they are so worried they wont even be able to sell weed. this overbearing fear of instability is gonna lead many people to vote against their best interest. cmon people we are talking about something which we have wanted for years. are you gonna give up the chance to start the process of legalization? its not gonna be perfect, but i see this as a step in the right direction. we must unite as pot smokers and work out the kinks later.


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## bajafox (Nov 1, 2010)

I wish I could vote NO on both our Governor candidates...


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

bajafox said:


> I wish I could vote NO on both our Governor candidates...


amen to that brother.... and by the way i do photography for an ebay company and i still wont vote for meggy.... or the jer bear.... man were fucked either way...


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## irieie (Nov 1, 2010)

bajafox said:


> I wish I could vote NO on both our Governor candidates...


like the lesser of two evils.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

irieie said:


> like the lesser of two evils.


who would that be???


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## irieie (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> who would that be???


thats a matter of personal preference, but either way its gonna be one of the two. the way i see it, i can either vote idealistically and say they are both shit vote for neither, OR i can say its gonna be one of them so i better choose the one who will not fuck up as much as the other one.


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## bajafox (Nov 1, 2010)

Just gotta pick the one you think will fuck up the least


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## guy incognito (Nov 1, 2010)

irieie said:


> i dont think legalization will raise the market price. its already pretty much legal in CA and prices are higher there than in some illegal markets across the country. supply might increase due to legalization, but so will demand. if anything demand for the best buds will go up in effect raising the price. also production will become constrained to 25 ft sq, limiting the amount each grower can produce. dont worry people will always want to smoke good pot ad they will always be willing to pay for it. think about all the work and time that goes into growing a #. the price is not overly inflated in my opinion and does not have that much room to move.


come on man. you make no fucking sense. demand will go up? demand for the best buds will go up? why? because people really want to smoke the best buds now, but dont because its illegal? no, if youre a hard core smoke you already smoke.

and how will production become constrained with a 25 sq ft limit? that 25 sq ft per person ON TOP OF what everyone can legally do now. If you have a medical grow it will be unaffected by this limit. If you grow illegally well I think the point is moot. You are already breaking the law, I see no reason why you would scale back to 25 feet.

If prop 19 doesn't pass I hope california breaks off and falls in the ocean.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> come on man. you make no fucking sense. demand will go up? demand for the best buds will go up? why? because people really want to smoke the best buds now, but dont because its illegal? no, if youre a hard core smoke you already smoke.
> 
> and how will production become constrained with a 25 sq ft limit? that 25 sq ft per person ON TOP OF what everyone can legally do now. If you have a medical grow it will be unaffected by this limit. If you grow illegally well I think the point is moot. You are already breaking the law, I see no reason why you would scale back to 25 feet.
> 
> If prop 19 doesn't pass I hope california breaks off and falls in the ocean.


but than all my plants will drown.... man your a sick sad person... i mean fuck us... worry about our plants that will be drowned...


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## guy incognito (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> but than all my plants will drown.... man your a sick sad person... i mean fuck us... worry about our plants that will be drowned...


It will be for the greater good though. Lose a few plants but lose a lot of ignorance as well.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

did you say loose a few plants? haha your funny guy... ever hear of the emerald triangle.... yeah i hear they only grow a few plants there.... and also try not just plants, but the best plants the country has to offer.... denver is also up there... but still miles behind cali in all aspects of our wonderfull plant


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## irieie (Nov 1, 2010)

read a book about macroeconomics it will make more sense to you. its basic principles of supply and demand, when government regulation that prohibits consumption and production is removed, consumption goes up, which means the demand goes up, and production goes up. The simultaneous shift in both the demand curve and the supply curve, will offset any possible fluctuation in price.


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## Ernestgrower (Nov 1, 2010)

If you vote No you are a selfish person. You know that this plant is not dangerous and people should not get in trouble for it. You are also supporting the mexican cartels and hundreds of people getting there fucking heads cut off.


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## topspin (Nov 1, 2010)

vote yes, jailing people for herb is insane.
If it doesn't pass, it'll be back in 12. Dems are already talking about using it to turn out vote. Which sucks becuase they are too big of pussies to support 19.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

Ernestgrower said:


> If you vote No you are a selfish person. You know that this plant is not dangerous and people should not get in trouble for it. You are also supporting the mexican cartels and hundreds of people getting there fucking heads cut off.


yummy!! mexican swag herb! haha jk


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## guy incognito (Nov 1, 2010)

irieie said:


> read a book about macroeconomics it will make more sense to you. its basic principles of supply and demand, when government regulation that prohibits consumption and production is removed, consumption goes up, which means the demand goes up, and production goes up. The simultaneous shift in both the demand curve and the supply curve, will offset any possible fluctuation in price.


I'm familiar with economics. I disagree the demand will increase much, if at all. Read a book about prohibition and how it doesn't work, as if it isn't obvious from the copious amount of marijuana consumption. The main reason demand will seem to increase is because supply will increase. I would certainly increase my consumption if I could get it significantly cheaper, especially primo bud. The only thing stopping me (and EVERYONE else that wants to smoke pot) is NOT the law, it's the price (the ARTIFICIAL price created by prohibition). 

I'm sure the price of alcohol during prohibition was approximately the same as it is now?


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## Sure Shot (Nov 1, 2010)

Ernestgrower said:


> You are also supporting the mexican cartels and hundreds of people getting there fucking heads cut off.


 

Mexico's shipment didn't make it this year! 
   
*Mexico burns marijuana haul *​


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> I'm familiar with economics. I disagree the demand will increase much, if at all. Read a book about prohibition and how it doesn't work, as if it isn't obvious from the copious amount of marijuana consumption. The main reason demand will seem to increase is because supply will increase. I would certainly increase my consumption if I could get it significantly cheaper, especially primo bud. The only thing stopping me (and EVERYONE else that wants to smoke pot) is NOT the law, it's the price (the ARTIFICIAL price created by prohibition).
> 
> I'm sure the price of alcohol during prohibition was approximately the same as it is now?


i totally agree GUY... except the fact of the price of alcohol... only cuz things were way cheaper back than.... but yeah i get what you mean


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## guy incognito (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> i totally agree GUY... except the fact of the price of alcohol... only cuz things were way cheaper back than.... but yeah i get what you mean


Well clearly I mean a relative price thats been adjusted.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> Well clearly I mean a relative price thats been adjusted.


haha i know i know... but yeah i get ya... i guess only time will tell...


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## skiweeds (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> So alot of people i know are voting NO on prop 19. If this law is passed, our medicine will be taxed to hell and back... no more 10-20 dollar grams! try about $23.19 per gram.... and up. The state is going to tax the fuck out of us... The doctor at the clinic i go to is telling everyone to vote no on 19.
> 
> I as a grower personally could care less if its legal or not, im legal already....
> 
> ...


i think it's fine if the government want to sell and tax it. only however if they still allow people to grow their own like they do now. i'd by far rather grow my own than get it from the government. im in mi not cali so i cant vote. but i never voted in my life cause 99% of all politicians are scum bags. i will vote for ron paul if he ever runs, otherwise until then i vote no. fuck the government. fuck republicans and fuck democrats even more. fuck all these bullshit government hand outs. fuck food stamps and food cards. where i live so many white trash people have them yet they can afford to buy expensive alcohol, over taxed cigarettes, and drugs including overpriced marijuana. then they blame all their problems on having to support their bastard(born out of wed lock) kids they can't stop popping out. they fuck their lives up and cry for help. fuck them and their kids, they should be helping themselves. libertarian is by far the best party. they're all for smaller government. i dream of a day when all garbage is wiped clean and out society is only made up of the elite.


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## irieie (Nov 1, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> I'm familiar with economics. I disagree the demand will increase much, if at all. Read a book about prohibition and how it doesn't work, as if it isn't obvious from the copious amount of marijuana consumption. The main reason demand will seem to increase is because supply will increase. I would certainly increase my consumption if I could get it significantly cheaper, especially primo bud. The only thing stopping me (and EVERYONE else that wants to smoke pot) is NOT the law, it's the price (the ARTIFICIAL price created by prohibition).
> 
> I'm sure the price of alcohol during prohibition was approximately the same as it is now?


the incease in demand will not come from the people who already consume it. The shift in demand will come from the higher availability and the lack of restriction. yes there are a lot of people who smoke pot now, i am not contesting that. there are also people who do not smoke pot because of the legal issues. its is a expansion in the market not an increase in percapita consumption that will shift the demand curve. on the other hand, not everyone who consumes will be able to produce. there are factors that will shift the supply as you are saying. at the same time there are factors that will also increase the demand. price is not determined by prohibition, if you really understood anything about macroeconomics, you would know that price is always determined by supply and demand.


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## mojoe561 (Nov 1, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> propositions can only be changed by the voters. it can NOT be fixed later. it is what it is.


I read an article the other day about how if Prop 19 is passed that it will be challenged in court because it doesn't wipe away prior criminal convictions.


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## Kerovan (Nov 1, 2010)

irieie said:


> the incease in demand will not come from the people who already consume it. The shift in demand will come from the higher availability and the lack of restriction. yes there are a lot of people who smoke pot now, i am not contesting that. there are also people who do not smoke pot because of the legal issues. its is a expansion in the market not an increase in percapita consumption that will shift the demand curve. on the other hand, not everyone who consumes will be able to produce. there are factors that will shift the supply as you are saying. at the same time there are factors that will also increase the demand. price is not determined by prohibition, if you really understood anything about macroeconomics, you would know that price is always determined by supply and demand.


Prohibition does affect the price since it keeps the supply artificially low due to the fact that only those that are willing to be criminals produce and sell it. If it's legal, supply will increase also. Besides the fact that in the "real world" there are a lot of other factors that determine pricing other than just supply and demand.


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## guy incognito (Nov 1, 2010)

irieie said:


> the incease in demand will not come from the people who already consume it. *The shift in demand will come from the higher availability and the lack of restriction. *


I believe higher availability and less restriction to access is called "supply". If you reread my post you quoted you will see that I say precisely this.



irieie said:


> yes there are a lot of people who smoke pot now, i am not contesting that. there are also people who do not smoke pot because of the legal issues. its is a expansion in the market not an increase in percapita consumption that will shift the demand curve. on the other hand, *not everyone who consumes will be able to produce. there are factors that will shift the supply as you are saying. at the same time there are factors that will also increase the demand.* *price is not determined by prohibition*, if you really understood anything about macroeconomics, you would know that price is always determined by supply and demand.


Correct, not everyone who consume will be able to produce, but your assumption that this will increase demand more than supply is flat out wrong. It will increase supply much more than it will increase demand.

Yes there are factors that will increase supply, as I think we've already laid out.

PRICE IS ABSOLUTELY DETERMINED BY PROHIBITION. I cannot believe anyone would think that prohibition doesn't have an effect on price. Prohibition decreases the supply. This is fundamental to what prohibition does. This is literally prohibition's function, to prohibit things.


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## irieie (Nov 1, 2010)

Kerovan said:


> Prohibition does affect the price since it keeps the supply artificially low due to the fact that only those that are willing to be criminals produce and sell it. If it's legal, supply will increase also. Besides the fact that in the "real world" there are a lot of other factors that determine pricing other than just supply and demand.


 no, price is where supply and demand meet. effects on price are really effects on supply and demand, and in most cases when there is a change in supply there is a change in demand and vice versa. thats why most consumer prices remain fairly constant over the long term, considering inflation. this stability in prices is even stronger in long established consumer markets such as marijuana consumption.


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## guy incognito (Nov 1, 2010)

Irieie - You still don't understand the most basic and fundamental principals of how prohibition works or what it's intended purpose is. It is necessarily tied to supply by its definition. Affecting supply is intrinsic to its basic properties and I don't think any further discussion can go on, and certainly wouldn't be productive for anyone, until you grasp that.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> irieie - you still don't understand the most basic and fundamental principals of how prohibition works or what it's intended purpose is. It is necessarily tied to supply by its definition. Affecting supply is intrinsic to its basic properties and i don't think any further discussion can go on, and certainly wouldn't be productive for anyone, until you grasp that.


burn.........


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## diamonddave (Nov 1, 2010)

Put your selfishness aside people and who cares if your weed goes up a couple bucks in price, think of all the people who will continue to go to jail because of bogus pot laws, if u vote to keep weed illegal and you are a pothead, then u are a hypocrite and belong in jail. Think about how prop 19 will spark a revolution for this country and most of the world, if u vote no on 19, you are a criminal and your are just as bad as the bias dea that we all hate..


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## WWShadow (Nov 1, 2010)

Economic issues aside, A lot of states are watching to see if CA passes prop 19. IF it passes other states are going to have to rethink there current status. Hell, we can't even get MMJ where I live at the moment. States atty General keeps finding reasons to throw it out, so it never makes it to the ballot.

Ppl hollering about 25' grow area, heck if you do hydro you can run 100 plants (or more) in the right system. Say you only get .5 oz's per plant that's 50 oz's what 3 maybe 4 times a year depending on the strain? so 150 to 200 oz's a year isn't enough? really?

Another thing someone posted 25 sq ft per person it's per residence. so a single person gets 25 sqft but a married couple still only gets 25 sqft. Add granma, that makes 3 still only 25 sq ft. Oh but wait, wifey & granma are med patients. They get a med grow, not included in the 25 sqft recreational grow. Hubby took a fall & blew out his knee now he is med also. 3 med grows & 25 sqft. That's a lot of potential herb! There will always be a market for quality herb. Just like there is a market for Milwaukies Best & Guiness. It's still gonna take time to get there assuming that prop 19 does pass.

It's going to take a huge movement to get the feds to reclassify MJ. IT's gotta start somewhere. CA just seems to be the place where everything gets done first these days.


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## WWShadow (Nov 1, 2010)

BrannonC said:


> Has anyone here even read the scripture? It overrides all prop 215 and medical prescriptions and amends it with Prop 19
> 
> It states that if legalized anyone can grow a 5 X 5 footprint and that is alloted on a per-household basis. Which completely cuts back on the amount you can have if you and your friend both have a prescription, or if you and your friends start a collective. Prop 19 will completely over-ride that. This means that EVERYTHING associated with growing is placed in that 5X5 footprint. Your plants, grow room, rez's, lights, nutrients, everything... Not real likely.
> 
> ...



You might want to reread prop 19. it states that it is not changing nor does it affect the current MMJ laws.


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## Dezracer (Nov 1, 2010)

BrannonC said:


> Has anyone here even read the scripture? It overrides all prop 215 and medical prescriptions and amends it with Prop 19
> 
> It states that if legalized anyone can grow a 5 X 5 footprint and that is alloted on a per-household basis. Which completely cuts back on the amount you can have if you and your friend both have a prescription, or if you and your friends start a collective. Prop 19 will completely over-ride that. This means that EVERYTHING associated with growing is placed in that 5X5 footprint. Your plants, grow room, rez's, lights, nutrients, everything... Not real likely.
> 
> ...


I've read it and what I read says that it does not ammend/override prop 215. It says that medical users under prop 215 will remain unaffected. These limitations on space are for recreational grows and not medical grows. I didn't see anything about it changing the amount you can carry either, only that it states the general public will be able to carry 1oz or less.

If you've seen this info and are certain of it's validity, copy and paste it into a post so everyone can see it. If you're not certain of exact wording, you should not be posting what you did because then it's only opinion at that point and your interpretation of what's written.

I'm not bashing you, just would like to see where it says what you claim it does.


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## IHaveADopeDick (Nov 1, 2010)

Vote NO on prop 19! If it passes the FBI will move in to California and take control! no more "Oh you have weed? Ima just take it and let you go free" now its "You have weed? oops federal charge since we're the FBI wich means more jail time cause some dumbass people want to smoke weed legally"


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> You might want to reread prop 19. it states that it is not changing nor does it affect the current MMJ laws.


AGREED! READ THE SB420. it clearly states that the current law cant be changed... i will always be able to carry a half pound on me... fuck this one oz shit. man for me all one oz equals is one fat ass super blunt (for real look it up. a super blunt is a huge ass blunt wrap that takes an oz to fill)


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## Dezracer (Nov 1, 2010)

*IHaveADopeDick* 






View Profile 





View Forum Posts 





View Journal Entries 





View Articles 





Add as Contact 






Stranger *Stranger*




*Join Date**Oct 2010**Posts**1*

*




*
Vote NO on prop 19! If it passes the FBI will move in to California and take control! no more "Oh you have weed? Ima just take it and let you go free" now its "You have weed? oops federal charge since we're the FBI wich means more jail time cause some dumbass people want to smoke weed legally



@ DopeDick: 
Not sure I'd want THAT to be my first post in a forum.​


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

Dezracer said:


> *IHaveADopeDick*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL BAD INTRO! um..... welcome to riu? but hey good call jumping right into the mix... make yourself at home. were all entitled to an opinion right? lol


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## Dezracer (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> LOL BAD INTRO! um..... welcome to riu? but hey good call jumping right into the mix... make yourself at home. were all entitled to an opinion right? lol


That's why I tried to quote it but it all ran together and looks like I posted it, lol


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## Dezracer (Nov 1, 2010)

I did the copy/paste thing to show that it was his first post but failed at separating it. All good though.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

Dezracer said:


> That's why I tried to quote it but it all ran together and looks like I posted it, lol


maybe it is you.... and you just made a new account? haha na im just messin


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## Kerovan (Nov 1, 2010)

Here is a good write up of the bill. It shows the whole bill broken down and explained for the all the people that can't seem to understand what reality is and proves that the anti 19 crowd are just spreading bs. especially concerning medical use.

http://stash.norml.org/californias-prop-19-a-word-for-word-analysis


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## Dezracer (Nov 1, 2010)

I've gone back and forth soo many times on which way I'm going to vote. Seems like everybody I talk to can bring up good points on why they feel so strongly one way or the other. I see a lot of positive things that can come of this passing as well as a lot of negative things. 

I agree with most that the street value will most likely drop except for 'top shelf' smoke. I think the value will always be there for that because I really don't see these huge facilities turning as high grade a product as smaller growers that give their gardens soo much attention. The prices that dispensaries buy at will most likely go down in order to keep prices to patients from skyrocketing after the taxes are levied. This means that if they are buying the bulk of their meds from the big facilities, they will want to pay less to the small grower as well since the prices will most likely be much lower from the big facilities.

This will potentially hurt small growers profit percentages but I think there will still be a market for them. I personally don't sell so that aspect won't affect me but I do know many who it would affect. There are many users on RIU that it would affect and most of them are posting to vote no. I imagine it's mainly for this reason but can't say I know because I've never asked them.


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## Dezracer (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> maybe it is you.... and you just made a new account? haha na im just messin


 
Aw sh*t, you caught me. No, I'm joking. Good one though, haha


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

Dezracer said:


> Aw sh*t, you caught me. No, I'm joking. Good one though, haha


lol you made an account just to stir up some shit haha jk


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## Dezracer (Nov 1, 2010)

I'm not that clever at making up a screen name. After signing up here I saw a bunch of names that I thought were awesome and decided I screwed the pooch on my screen name.


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## WWShadow (Nov 1, 2010)

Here's a question. Say prop 19 passes & I live in an apartment & can't grow because the landlord won't allow it or whatever reason. can I rent land/warehouse space to grow on/in? or:
I don't grow/use can I rent out my 5 X 5 space to someone else to grow on my land/in my basement or extra room (whatever)?


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

IHaveADopeDick said:


> Vote NO on prop 19! If it passes the FBI will move in to California and take control! no more "Oh you have weed? Ima just take it and let you go free" now its "You have weed? oops federal charge since we're the FBI wich means more jail time cause some dumbass people want to smoke weed legally"


 I didn't think it was possible, but I think you've smoked yourself stupid.


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

WWShadow said:


> Here's a question. Say prop 19 passes & I live in an apartment & can't grow because the landlord won't allow it or whatever reason. can I rent land/warehouse space to grow on/in? or:
> I don't grow/use can I rent out my 5 X 5 space to someone else to grow on my land/in my basement or extra room (whatever)?


 No because the FBI will have moved into California and taken control and you will be facing federal charges because we're teh FBI wich means more jail time cause some dumbass people want to smoke weed legally.


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## Misunot (Nov 1, 2010)

Ya know initially I was going to vote No on Prop 19. I didn't want mj to become commercialized by companies like Monsanto...But too many people are being incarcerated for possessing mj and I won't vote for that to continue. It's a waste of tax dollars to continue to fill the jails up with ppl who shouldn't be there. I'm paying more in taxes for that compared to the tax on mj when it becomes legal...

Personally, I am a medicinal user so the law won't affect me per se. So, fuck it I'm gonna vote yes on prop 19 cuz everyone should be able to enjoy nature's best herb.


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

irieie said:


> the incease in demand will not come from the people who already consume it. The shift in demand will come from the higher availability and the lack of restriction. yes there are a lot of people who smoke pot now, i am not contesting that. there are also people who do not smoke pot because of the legal issues. its is a expansion in the market not an increase in percapita consumption that will shift the demand curve. on the other hand, not everyone who consumes will be able to produce. there are factors that will shift the supply as you are saying. at the same time there are factors that will also increase the demand. price is not determined by prohibition, if you really understood anything about macroeconomics, you would know that price is always determined by supply and demand.


For someone who tells someone else to learn some macroeconomics, you sure don't know much yourself. Prohibition affects both supply and demand and doesn't affect both equally, hence there will be a shift in prices. Are you saying when alcohol was banned in the '20s and production had to be moved underground by mobsters, that they charged the same price for the booze? Or the ability to supply the alcohol wasn't affected?


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

Misunot said:


> Ya know initially I was going to vote No on Prop 19. I didn't mj to become commercialized by companies like Monsanto...But too many people are being incarcerated for possessing mj and I won't vote for that to continue. It's a waste of tax dollars to continue to fill the jails up with ppl who shouldn't be there. I personally am a medicinal user so the law won't affect me per se. So, fuck it I'm gonna vote yes on prop 19 cuz everyone should be able to enjoy nature's best herb.


 I don't understand this argument. Everything that can be commercialized will be. If weed becomes legalized companies are going to commercialize it. Hell, look at the seed banks today... nearly all the good weed you buy are commercialized strains.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

plsfoldthx said:


> I didn't think it was possible, but I think you've smoked yourself stupid.


haha could be... could be


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

plsfoldthx said:


> I don't understand this argument. Everything that can be commercialized will be. If weed becomes legalized companies are going to commercialize it. Hell, look at the seed banks today... nearly all the good weed you buy are commercialized strains.


which in the long run may be a good thing?


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## Sure Shot (Nov 1, 2010)

California Marijuana Arrests Remain Near Record Levels in 2009


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## plsfoldthx (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> which in the long run may be a good thing?


 Yes. If there wasn't demand for potent seeds would seed banks waste their time breeding potent strains? Look at beer, it was for a long time controlled by AB, Miller, and Coors, but there are tons of microbreweries popping up that are offering good, flavorful beers. Look at mexican schwag, why do people even put up with that quality of weed? Because it's all they can get.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

plsfoldthx said:


> Yes. If there wasn't demand for potent seeds would seed banks waste their time breeding potent strains? Look at beer, it was for a long time controlled by AB, Miller, and Coors, but there are tons of microbreweries popping up that are offering good, flavorful beers. Look at mexican schwag, why do people even put up with that quality of weed? Because it's all they can get.


amen....i see where your going with this.... i vote yes


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## Kerovan (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> amen....i see where your going with this.... i vote yes


If you really intend to vote yes, why do you still have this big "yard sign" telling people to vote no. You should change the title of the thread...


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

kerovan said:


> if you really intend to vote yes, why do you still have this big "yard sign" telling people to vote no. You should change the title of the thread...


i dunno how...


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## Kerovan (Nov 1, 2010)

dojaguy said:


> i dunno how...


go to "edit post" then select "go advanced" from there you can edit the title


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

Kerovan said:


> go to "edit post" then select "go advanced" from there you can edit the title


DONE!!! so yeah... feels good...


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## Kerovan (Nov 1, 2010)

hmm, apparently it only changes the title of the post and not the thread. bummer.


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## dojaguy (Nov 1, 2010)

SORRY i tried.... lol well at least we know now...


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## veggiegardener (Nov 1, 2010)

Kerovan said:


> Here is a good write up of the bill. It shows the whole bill broken down and explained for the all the people that can't seem to understand what reality is and proves that the anti 19 crowd are just spreading bs. especially concerning medical use.
> 
> http://stash.norml.org/californias-prop-19-a-word-for-word-analysis


Whoever wrote that suggests that Medical growers resume growing illegally if 25 sq. ft isn't adequate.

I'd rather YOU pay a fine.

Dontcha love "fairness"?


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## veggiegardener (Nov 1, 2010)

Misunot said:


> Ya know initially I was going to vote No on Prop 19. I didn't want mj to become commercialized by companies like Monsanto...But too many people are being incarcerated for possessing mj and I won't vote for that to continue. It's a waste of tax dollars to continue to fill the jails up with ppl who shouldn't be there. I'm paying more in taxes for that compared to the tax on mj when it becomes legal...
> 
> Personally, I am a medicinal user so the law won't affect me per se. So, fuck it I'm gonna vote yes on prop 19 cuz everyone should be able to enjoy nature's best herb.


If it passes, it won't affect your use, but growing is another matter, entirely.

I recommend voting in your own self interest, because no matter how you vote, some people will be hurt.

Hurt the sick, or hurt the shortsighted?

Vote your conscience.


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## WWShadow (Nov 1, 2010)

plsfoldthx said:


> Yes. If there wasn't demand for potent seeds would seed banks waste their time breeding potent strains? Look at beer, it was for a long time controlled by AB, Miller, and Coors, but there are tons of microbreweries popping up that are offering good, flavorful beers. Look at mexican schwag, why do people even put up with that quality of weed? Because it's all they can get.


YOu said it right there, "Micro-Breweries" the little guy busting loose & making a name with a quality product! Something mass production can't quite achieve.


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## desert dude (Nov 1, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> all i did was break my back and blow out my knee. two pinched nerves, 13 screws and a plate later and i have them all fooled.


How many of those 13 screws are loose, FDD? 

Now, before you get all annoyed, that was a joke.


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## Needofweed (Nov 1, 2010)

this post seems scripted from the start to me.


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## desert dude (Nov 1, 2010)

Needofweed said:


> this post seems scripted from the start to me.


Yeah, this post seems like satire to me. Hard to bite my tongue and stay silent here!


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## fdd2blk (Nov 1, 2010)

desert dude said:


> How many of those 13 screws are loose, FDD?
> 
> Now, before you get all annoyed, that was a joke.


6 of them. you can see them sticking out the side of my knee.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 1, 2010)

A friend sent me a link:

http://stop19.com/ten-reasons-to-vote-no/

Apparently others see it as I do.

I'm so happy.


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## desert dude (Nov 1, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> A friend sent me a link:
> 
> http://stop19.com/ten-reasons-to-vote-no/
> 
> ...


Just a bunch of paranoid bullshit. They won't even accept a comment.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 1, 2010)

*Zach Galifianakis** lights up a joint on 'Real Time With Bill Maher' during a discussion of Prop 19 ! *

[youtube]Q3P1mQzBxmg[/youtube]


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## WWShadow (Nov 1, 2010)

top 10 reason to vote no? really?
my take on all ten reasons stated in your link
http://stop19.com/ten-reasons-to-vote-no/
1. is true in a sense, it tax, regulate & control that's the title of the prop (or close enough) with out 19 a civi infraction $100.00 fine every time the cops can catch you.
2. the new cannabis related crimes are in line with the current alcohol laws. However in the privacy of your own home who is to say hwo old someone is. However if you get busted for supplying a minor it's probably going to be because one of those "friends" that happen to be under age rolled over on you for whatever reason. same reasons it happens with out 19
3.large scale production, hmm there is already some fairly large scale prosuction going on in CA already isn't there? Ok to be fair the oakland setup if it is as rumors have made it out to be it still isn't going to effect the avg home grower. 4. That one could be a sticking point. However reasonable discretion should be used. Many homes already have alcohol which as of today has been determined, by Dr.s to be the single most dangerous drug in the world more so than crack & heroine.
5. Any law can be changed eventually by the voters, otherwise MMJ wouldn't exist to begin with. 5 X 5 isn't big enough? any grower should be able to pull enough herb to keep themselves supplied with the right system.
6. Don't like schwagg-mart don't buy from schwagg-mart. If people didn't buy the crappy brickweed then ppl wouldn't be able to sell it to begin with. 
7. I think this pertains to commercial grows and not the average home grower. However the locals can allow joe average to grow more than the 5X 5 if they so choose.
8. Prop 19 CAN NOT supercede prop 215. It is even written into the proposition.
9. Unbiased Cannabis activists? Those would be the ones that don't care whether cannabis is legal or not? In a democracy you will never be able to please everyone. However should you find yourself among the majority at the voting polls you can make things change. NORML seems to be the largest activist group I know of & they are supporting it.
10. The "feds" don't rule the voters! Any time you want to make changes that go against the establishment they will bark & growl like a yappy little dog but in the end you can always over ride them at the polls. 2012 is just around the corner if that bill can improve upon 19 then great they can make it happen but it can't take away from 19 or 215

IF I lived in CA, I would definitely be voting. whether it is yes or no, I would be at the polls!
I would love to just be able just to get MMJ where I live. Californians should consider yourselves lucky! you had MMJ for over 10 years. It doesn't matter if you're for 19 or against it if you don't vote!
either way take the time to learn what prop 19 does & doesn't say. the "establishment" is spouting all the negative, lame & untrue rumors they can. big Brother has kept prohibition through out right lies & misinformation that they can't admit that they have been screwing the nation's citizens because then we might decide to look around & see where else they have been screwing us over at. Look for the truth & try not to let the governments lies blind you, don't let the fear mongers keep you from learning the truth.


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## WWShadow (Nov 1, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> *Zach Galifianakis** lights up a joint on 'Real Time With Bill Maher' during a discussion of Prop 19 ! *
> 
> [youtube]ySySC_MaeJ4[/youtube]


Roflmao, late night tv will never be the same!!


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## Sure Shot (Nov 1, 2010)

I edited in a better video with Bill Maher's opinion included


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## Sure Shot (Nov 1, 2010)

We'll know soon enough!


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## dojaguy (Nov 2, 2010)

todays the day ladies & gents............ im nervous... is anyone else as nervous as i am?....


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## WWShadow (Nov 2, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> I edited in a better video with Bill Maher's opinion included


much better vid, thx. That blond chic looks like she is just dying to hit that bad boy. The look on her face is just priceless...

After today it's all over but either way ppl are going to be crying & calling foul in some way, shape or form... Good luck to all who get out & vote!!


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## Wild (Nov 2, 2010)

I believe that if California were to set a prime example of the benefits that go hand in hand with legal cannabis, it would'nt take long for most states and other countries to follow by example. It will be each of you that influence the rest of the world. This might be the only oppurtunity that cannabis users all around the globe have to gain a foothold on what we've been rightfully wanting for so long.

Set the ball rolling Cali!


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## guy incognito (Nov 4, 2010)

That site looks just like all the other bullshit vote no sites. Not a single piece of credible evidence to support any of their outrageous claims. I guess it doesn't matter as the election's over, but I still don't like seeing propaganda bullshit like this, especially now since I believe these sites actually affected the vote for the worse.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 4, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> That site looks just like all the other bullshit vote no sites. Not a single piece of credible evidence to support any of their outrageous claims. I guess it doesn't matter as the election's over, but I still don't like seeing propaganda bullshit like this, especially now since I believe these sites actually affected the vote for the worse.


Prop 19 got fucked up. As a supporter, I didn't agree with the objections, but that doesn't change the fact that their were a lot of questions about it. Placing blame does no good. All we can do now is figure out why prop 19 didn't pass and learn from the mistakes.

Mistake #1 was obviously not exempting prop 215 from it's effects clearly enough. Rather than go into confusing details about what parts of prop 215 were exempt, it should have clearly in no uncertain terms excepted ALL of prop 215 making a clear separation between medical and recreational use.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 4, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> Prop 19 got fucked up. As a supporter, I didn't agree with the objections, but that doesn't change the fact that their were a lot of questions about it. Placing blame does no good. All we can do now is figure out why prop 19 didn't pass and learn from the mistakes.
> 
> Mistake #1 was obviously not exempting prop 215 from it's effects clearly enough. Rather than go into confusing details about what parts of prop 215 were exempt, it should have clearly in no uncertain terms excepted ALL of prop 215 making a clear separation between medical and recreational use.


Perfectly stated.


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## gupp (Nov 4, 2010)

I think one of the problems was that...again, as I've been told recently, it's not the 25 foot grow space exactly, it's the fact that it was still federally illegal and the fact that the governments could say who or who couldn't grow. I don't care if your government is good or bad, it's that eventually somebody else might come along and change it.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 4, 2010)

gupp said:


> I think one of the problems was that...again, as I've been told recently, it's not the 25 foot grow space exactly, it's the fact that it was still federally illegal and the fact that the governments could say who or who couldn't grow. I don't care if your government is good or bad, it's that eventually somebody else might come along and change it.


That's a big problem. I wish there was some sort of direct democratic process here where we could vote on national ballot measures. Unfortunately citizens can not change federal law through a direct democratic process. We only get direct democracy at state and local levels. This problem is far above my pay grade.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 4, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> This problem is far above my pay grade.


A voice can chage a community, a community can change a city, a city can change a state, a state can change a nation, a nation can change the world!


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## TokinPodPilot (Nov 4, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> That's a big problem. I wish there was some sort of direct democratic process here where we could vote on national ballot measures. Unfortunately citizens can not change federal law through a direct democratic process. We only get direct democracy at state and local levels. This problem is far above my pay grade.


Technically... there is. And funny enough, it's the same way that Alcohol Prohibition was ended. State conventions were used to ratify the 21st Amendment, primarily because of the fear of overly convoluted politics at the state legislature level. This is why I keep saying that those people in other states waiting for California to "do something and lead the way" are missing the big picture. We need to garner support and sentiment EVERYWHERE. Changing a congressional Act should be much simpler than adding an Amendment.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 4, 2010)

Considering the percentage of "bag" people in this country, a Constitutional convention would be a disaster.

The Founding Fathers knew history. Particularly Roman history.

Eventually the Plebes realize they can vote themselves bread and circuses all the way into economic collapse.

Our current system prevents this, UNLESS, the elected officials fear losing their jobs enough to vote for bread and circuses(tax cuts).

I think being a member Congress should be a privilege, with only minor compensation as it was intended.

Six weeks in Washington after harvest, and then home for the holidays.

It didn't last long.

Politicians have been milking the system for a very long time.


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## gupp (Nov 4, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Considering the percentage of "bag" people in this country, a Constitutional convention would be a disaster.
> 
> The Founding Fathers knew history. Particularly Roman history.
> 
> ...


Well I've posted it here before but no one seemed to notice..maybe I'm wrong here but from some standpoint shouldn't we address how this nation was formed then? 

I mean we all like to talk about how great the founding fathers where but what they did was pretty much put an nation on top of many others (the natives) and then explain it away by...superiority? Arrogance? Who knows?

But the point is that the nations existed previously and there needs to be some thought into what law really applies if the law that was written was done so illegally in the first place.

The US still has a rather strange relation with them, officially. I mean fireworks and casinos but shrug.

Anyway, it does seem kind of funny to me right now that we still use the Constitution, and politicians swear by it and try to adhere to it but the fact is that it was written some 250 years ago...it seems like one of the longest lasting forms of government we've seen in a while. 

It was written in an age where every other single government was essentially a monarchy, perhaps it should be revised?

Basically what I mean is that instead of treating the founding fathers like gods, which they probably wouldn't have liked, we should view them as products of their time. 

I don't think they ever imagined a fraction of the stuff that would happen, but they tried to create a document that would help give their government some structure, at least for a while. I'm not sure that they were ever setting out to create a "timeless" document.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 5, 2010)

gupp said:


> Well I've posted it here before but no one seemed to notice..maybe I'm wrong here but from some standpoint shouldn't we address how this nation was formed then?
> 
> I mean we all like to talk about how great the founding fathers where but what they did was pretty much put an nation on top of many others (the natives) and then explain it away by...superiority? Arrogance? Who knows?
> 
> ...



The roadblocks placed in the way of another Constitutional Convention make me think that they wanted a true consensus before a bunch of teabaggers go back to the drawing board, and make disagreement illegal, and ban minorities from politics.

We were very fortunate that the Founding Fathers included some of the finest political minds of the age.

Thomas Jefferson managed to maintain a close association with France throughout their revolution. A stroke of genius, that very likely saved the United States from returning to the British fold.

Anyway, any changes to the Constitution should be Amendments. Not a full rewrite. The document remains current in its goals.

If anything, I'd like to see an Amendment insuring our privacy.

(Ever had a cop enter your house because the door wasn't locked? They do it, every day, without a warrant.)

I'm married to a registered Native American. She grew up in terrible poverty, in the richest state in the Union.

The evolution of the United States included methods that are nothing new.

Immigration had been going on, East to West in Europe for thousands of years.

The various waves were fleeing enemies, or looking for better hunting.

Where they were militarily superior, they displaced their predecessors.

This pattern served the Europeans well when they landed in the Americas with firearms, versus the Natives' stone age weapons.

I'm not excusing the treatment of the natives, but believe that the events should be viewed in historical context.

There are few places in the World where the current genetic pool in any given location is the same as that of 5000 years ago.

Keep in mind that our PC society is creating people that would be clueless in the situation the Native Americans found themselves in. Against disease and an enemy that showed little regard for the rights of "inferior" beings, they survived.

For many Americans, having a few drops of Native American blood in their veins is a point of pride.

The Constitution is a very good blueprint for a free nation.

Congress has spent over two centuries misinterpreting and watering down its meaning.

I think Thomas Jefferson would have challenged George Bush to a duel, had he seen what Bush did to this country. Bush would have got his ass shot off.

A nice copy of that great document hangs over my desk.

I like the reminder that I live in a country that was once free.


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## WWShadow (Nov 5, 2010)

I think Jefferson would have challenged more than just Bush, the other Bush, Reagan, Certainly Nixon & maybe Ford. Not sure he would've wasted a bullet on Carter & he would probably just ask Clinton for lewinski's number, rofl. dang, I'm not even a democrat but I think all the ones I listed for Jefferson to call out are/were republican.

Ultimately it's a bullshit prohibition based on lies & maintained by special interest group payoffs to politicians( the last part is just my opinion) & we should be able to have it replealed based in it being unconstitutional at least.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 5, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Our current system prevents this, UNLESS, the elected officials fear losing their jobs enough to vote for bread and circuses(tax cuts).


Good comparison. I'm afraid this will all end in us electing a Commodus type leader soon.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 5, 2010)

Commodus type leader?


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## Dan Kone (Nov 5, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> Commodus type leader?


Commodus was probably the worst emperor in Roman history. He took the Roman empire at the near height of it's power and completely destroyed it to the point where it never really recovered. Even though he was the son of an emperor, he considered himself to be a man of the people attempting to relate to the lowest common denominator. He went so far as to actually become a gladiator. That would be the modern day equivalent of GW Bush joining up with vigilantes patrolling the boarder and personally shooting Mexicans trying to come here while he was president. 

The roman population had been behaving in a similar manner to the tea party folks. Except instead of wanting tax cuts, they wanted elaborate and expensive games. He bankrupted the empire giving them those games and other indulgences that Rome could not afford. That marks the beginning of the end of the Roman empire. Even though he was completely incompetent, he was VERY popular over most of his reign. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodus


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## Sure Shot (Nov 5, 2010)

Oh, thanks for clarifying!
I skimmed through that article earlier, and couldn't see where you were going.
So, basically you think we'll elect a Republican/Teabagger!


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## Dan Kone (Nov 5, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> Oh, thanks for clarifying!
> I skimmed through that article earlier, and couldn't see where you were going.
> So, basically you think we'll elect a Republican/Teabagger!


I think we will elect someone who tells the public what they want to hear and acts on it with no regard for the practical realities of running the government. Sort of like a GW Bush x 10000. 

I'm not saying only republicans have people this crazy. Only that with our current political climate they are far more likely to do so due to the power of the far right wing. If some politician suggest we declare war on Islam in general while simultaneously enacted tax cuts so big they would lead to our government collapsing, the tea party folks would cheer for it. The left wing equivalent to the Tea Party is so small and insignificant they could not do the same thing.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 5, 2010)

If something doersn't happen to turn the tide away from the ignorant direction it has taken with this election, I'm thinking we may actually see a complete collapse by 2020.

We may find ourselves with the entire world arrayed against us if we elect a teabagger.

I don't believe most of those folks understand why nukes are bad.

They think in terms of turning the Middle East to glass.

Sarah Palin may well be the successful candidate in 2012.

Count on her to get a headache, and resign as soon as she finds out she can't comprehend the problems.

There are rumors Hillary will run. I'd have to support her, because she's not only smart, but a serious bitch, with the best advisor in the world, sitting across the dinner table.

I like Obama, but in this country, charisma is everything.

The Pres sounds like someone's old history teacher.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 6, 2010)

That's a sad, but oh so true possibility!
I'ld pick Hillary over Sarah any day.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 6, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> If something doersn't happen to turn the tide away from the ignorant direction it has taken with this election, I'm thinking we may actually see a complete collapse by 2020.


I'm completely dumbfounded by the general public's political perspective. I assumed that after the economy collapsed that people would understand that the republicans were basically just ripping us all off and that tax cuts for the rich is not an economic solution to anything. How they can convince the majority of Americans to vote against their own economic interests is amazing to me. It's pretty clear that their policies only benefit the top 1% and still they've got people who live in trailer parks angry about the estate tax and upper level tax rates. It's really incredible they can pull that off. 

If these people don't start to understand what's going on, we are in real trouble. 



> I don't believe most of those folks understand why nukes are bad.
> 
> They think in terms of turning the Middle East to glass.


I actually have an uncle who has used that exact phrase when talking about what we should do about the middle east. He really nuking Mecca and Tehran would end terrorism by showing Muslims "who's boss". 



> Sarah Palin may well be the successful candidate in 2012.


It won't be Palin. She messed up too bad. But it could be someone very similar. 



> There are rumors Hillary will run. I'd have to support her, because she's not only smart, but a serious bitch, with the best advisor in the world, sitting across the dinner table.


For different times we need different types of presidents. Even though I don't like many of her policies, I think she has what it would take to get things done. I'd support her. Right now we need an LBJ type ass kicker. Everyone is currently too belligerent to listen to reason which is why Obama is having such a hard time. He still has time to figure that out, but if he doesn't soon, we'll have a crazy ass republican president in 2012.


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## mas3372 (Nov 10, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> it's a law that your employer give you time off to vote. GO VOTE!!!!!!


That is a common misconception. the law states that no person shall be denied the right to vote thats why they offer mail in ballots. In the event that you suspect you may not be able to make it to the polling place for any reason, including work, you need to request a mail in ballot incase.

I thought the same thing until this past primary and was proven wrong by the board of elections.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 11, 2010)

In California, you can become a permanent absentee voter for the price of a stamp.

We started voting from home about 15 years ago. Maybe longer. I can't actually remember the last time I went to a poll to vote.

I haven't missed an election since I first voted for President in '72.

I was told if I wanted to complain about government, I'd better be voting.

I love to bitch about the government.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 11, 2010)

Despite last week&#8217;s defeat of Proposition 19 at the polls, new taxes on marijuana are coming to California.

Pot Taxes Are Coming To California


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## zuuluu (Nov 13, 2010)

Thats selfish. Ive heard about 70 percent of people who apply for a mary j card get one but the other 30 percent r fucked. Some doctors will give one to who ever asks for one thow hehe. If it would have passed thow anyone could have goten it along with the 30 percent. If u wana bich about the price just go buy some from a dealer.


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## The Ruiner (Nov 13, 2010)

Dude...the LA one is 0.05%...if the dispensaries bitch about this I would be surprised


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## Sure Shot (Nov 13, 2010)

The Ruiner said:


> Dude...the LA one is 0.05%...if the dispensaries bitch about this I would be surprised



Albany, voters decided to impose a $25 per-square-foot tax on nonprofit medical cannabis operations. Under the measure, for-profit ventures would be taxed at a rate of 2.5 percent of gross receipts.

La Puente, voters backed taxes on existing medical marijuana dispensaries at a rate of $100 per square foot of business space or 10 percent per $1,000 of gross receipts.

Oakland, voters for the second authorized specific taxes on the retail sale of medical cannabis.The new five percent tax rate is nearly three times the supplemental sales tax rate already imposed on local dispensaries.

Rancho Cordova, voters decided to impose taxes of $600 to $900 per square foot on personal medical marijuana grows. A five-foot by five-foot indoor space could be required to pay an annual local levy of $15,000.

Richmond, voters overwhelmingly approved a five percent tax on local medical marijuana.

Sacramento, voters approved a new business tax on medical marijuana dispensaries.The specific tax rate will be determined by city officials, but may be as high as four percent of businesses&#8217; annual gross receipts.

San Jose, nearly eight out of ten voters endorsed to levy an additional ten percent tax on the area&#8217;s existing medical cannabis dispensaries.

Stockton, voters endorsed a separate 2.5 percent business tax on medical cannabis businesses.

*L.A., proposes $50 in city sales taxes on every $1,000 of "cash and in-kind contributions" to dispensaries for pot.* (To be voted on in March.)


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## veggiegardener (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm thinking taxes on non profit(NO cash exchanges hands) grows will be challenged, and overturned.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 14, 2010)

I like thinking of the sun on a rainy day, too!


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## veggiegardener (Nov 14, 2010)

Sure Shot said:


> I like thinking of the sun on a rainy day, too!


Having been through it, I figure either myself, or some other Caregiver/patient will make the case that seriously ill people are already being screwed by the medical industry.

It will be easy to prove such taxes would deprive them of their meds.

The last time, it never went to court.

They really don't want this reaching the State Supreme Court.

In particular, the Feds don't want this reaching the 9th Circuit. That would almost certainly leave the DEA with the choice of keeping quiet, or losing in front of the SCOTUS.

This isn't a guess, but based on experience.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 14, 2010)

The last time, there was no consensus that the majority(voters) wanted taxes.
It wasn't in the law books then, therefore it didn't make it to court.
Now, there has been a vote and the people have decided.
Judges are voted in and out as you know.
So, it stands to reason that judges are sensitive to voter demands.


*
In other words;

They changed the rule book.*


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## veggiegardener (Nov 14, 2010)

Judges don't "run" for office.

Every election is actually a confidence vote.

Appellate courts are about upholding constitutional law.

Suggesting they would violate the Constitution in their decisions merely opens the door to further appeals.

What those judges DON'T like is being overturned by other courts.

Once the courts join the teabaggers, the United States no longer exists as an idea.

Just a tyranny.


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## Sure Shot (Nov 14, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Once the courts join the teabaggers, the United States no longer exists as an idea.
> 
> Just a tyranny.


Amen.........


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## The Ruiner (Nov 14, 2010)

Sureshot...

my math adds up right? 

I mean...dispensaries are going to have to deal with this. I am sure that most of the operators will use this as an excuse to return less to the grower while charging more...


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## Sure Shot (Nov 14, 2010)

The Ruiner said:


> Sureshot...
> 
> my math adds up right?
> 
> I mean...dispensaries are going to have to deal with this. I am sure that most of the operators will use this as an excuse to return less to the grower while charging more...


Without a doubt. Those taxes will trickle down to everyone.
Just wish the tax cuts Republicans always scream for worked like that.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 14, 2010)

The Ruiner said:


> Sureshot...
> 
> my math adds up right?
> 
> I mean...dispensaries are going to have to deal with this. I am sure that most of the operators will use this as an excuse to return less to the grower while charging more...


Yep. Dispensaries don't care about taxes. They'll actually make more money. They'll use it as an excuse to both raise their prices and pay less for bud.


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## The Ruiner (Nov 14, 2010)

Dan Kone said:


> Yep. Dispensaries don't care about taxes. They'll actually make more money. They'll use it as an excuse to both raise their prices and pay less for bud.


Not to bring up sore spots, but I got that vibe from the couple of dispensaries (that supported 19) I visited before the election. They just didnt care what the price was...it was kind of disturbing.


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## Dan Kone (Nov 14, 2010)

The Ruiner said:


> Not to bring up sore spots, but I got that vibe from the couple of dispensaries (that supported 19) I visited before the election. They just didnt care what the price was...it was kind of disturbing.


Yep. That's why they don't care about cities/counties fining them either.

It's fucked up because they can raise prices without anyone knowing they are doing it. They just raise the price on a few strains that come in and they don't lose any money.

If the average person going into a club had any idea how arbitrary the pricing of bud was and how often prices on a strain were arbitrary raised for issues completely unrelated to quality, they'd never go to another dispensary again. It's obscene.

Added costs to dispensaries are always passed on to the customers, vendors, or both. Dispensaries rarely take the hit.


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## veggiegardener (Nov 15, 2010)

in the long haul, I think most dispensaries will disappear unless thew government passes laws that make them an institution, like pharmacies.

Many/most patients are growing their own, or are part of a cooperative, side stepping the silly prices most dispensaries charge for third rate weed.

I've heard of several large co-ops in the Bay Area, distributing their meds for $60/oz to cover the cost of growing and distribution.

Many dispensaries grew large numbers of plants last summer to further increase their profit margins.

Anybody notice a reduction in price?


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## The Ruiner (Nov 15, 2010)

HA! no....


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## veggiegardener (Nov 18, 2010)

We dropped by a couple of dispensaries on Tuesday, just to see the new edibles a friend is making.

While there, our friend showed some of my BB x WW to the owner.

He offered to take some, on consignment, at $100/oz.

When I asked what it would list at, on his "board", he said(after running his calculator, $15/$35/$250, gram/eighth/oz.

I think I'd rather give it away...


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## fdd2blk (Nov 18, 2010)

can someone please post the monthly cost to run a club? including retainers and lawyer fees. thanks. 

i'm just curious.


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## fdd2blk (Nov 18, 2010)

did you know macy's pays about 13 dollars for a 75 dollar pair of jeans? they buy them in bulk. open the box at 17 dollars, ad a price tag and fold them. then they walk to the front of the store and sell them for 75 dollars. funny how RETAIL SALES works, isn't it?


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## Sure Shot (Nov 18, 2010)

That's right.
250% mark-up is not unheard of at all.
In fact, many business's do it.
It's good business.
40% of seller's price goes to cover loss(price of weed).
40% goes to restocking, 10% goes into the overhead, and 10% goes to profit.
The salesman ends up with $25 off a $250 oz.
But, he now has another oz. on the shelf.
Only if he liquidated his product, would he ever be able to cash out.
So, it may appear he made $150 cash of your oz. When actually, he made $25 profit!


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## veggiegardener (Nov 18, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> did you know macy's pays about 13 dollars for a 75 dollar pair of jeans? they buy them in bulk. open the box at 17 dollars, ad a price tag and fold them. then they walk to the front of the store and sell them for 75 dollars. funny how RETAIL SALES works, isn't it?


You'll also find that same pair of pants for $30, on sale.

Most people only shop the higher end(non Walmart) stores during sales.

I buy my clothes at Walmart.

Better $13 for a pair of Faded Glory jeans as opposed to $40+ for Levy's.

Especially when the last three pairs of Levy's tore after just a few washings.

The FG's last until the pockets wear through.

Anyway, when will dispensaries start having sales?

Once they develop a way to advertise that reaches patients, I'll bet price slashing will become the norm.


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## faria (Dec 13, 2010)

good this type of posting and related to this topic and gain knowledge about the related marijuana


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