# 13/11 vs 12/12 ??????



## Zaehet Strife (Nov 23, 2010)

just wondering... ive been flowering for 29 days now and i just had an idea that maybe if i turn my lights on 13/11, it might increase my yeild..but could take longer to flower maybe im not sure. i looked some stuff up on it but i cant find much, and i wont change my lights until im sure i have some legit experienced feedback. anyone tried 13/11 and noticed any difference? im growing indica


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## homebrewer (Nov 23, 2010)

An experienced grower wouldn't look to his light-cycle to increase his yield, he'd concentrate on his environment and proper feeding.


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## legallyflying (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm going to try a longer rest cycle during my next veg.. nothing major 16/8 and see if I get better root development.


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## lowerarchy (Nov 24, 2010)

You'd probably increase your yield on a g/kw baisis more by going to 11/13 instead. Plants can't photosynthesize efficiently the whole 12 hours anyway...

But also what homebrewer said.


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## Zaehet Strife (Nov 24, 2010)

thanks guys!


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## MeJuana (Nov 24, 2010)

I am considering 10.5 on and 13.5 off but I was a little timid so this run I am 5 weeks in on 11.5 on 12.5 off but all is well and the buds are swellin up fine.. I went and hunted down something DJ Short wrote this is third party copy/paste _but like way cool dudes

Something DJ Short wrote.





After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.

Specifically, I find the single most powerful influence to the Indica dominant phenotype is the traditional 18/6 veggie cycle and 12/12 flowering cycle. The 18/6 veggie and 12/12 flower cycle is an attempt, however poor, to mimic the Indica-producing photoperiod. It is my belief that this light cycle strongly influences for Indica phenotypic expression.

Sativa phenotype characteristics will manifest under a more equatorial photoperiod, closer to a 13/11 veggie cycle and an 11/13 flower cycle. This is the light timing range to use to elicit more Sativa dominant expression from your plants.

As for the exact photoperiod formula that I incorporate into my growing/breeding regime, this will presently remain a trade secret. My advice is to experiment with different photoperiods, keep good notes and pay attention. Avoid the 18/6 and 12/12 photoperiods, while tweaking the times a bit differently with each breeding cycle until more desirable results in the finished product and their offspring are noted. Here's a hint: work in half-hour increments or a little less, and good luck!

Angle of light simply refers to the physical angle of light source the plant is dependent upon for growth. Perhaps the greatest difference between indoor and outdoor environments has to do with the angle of light received by the plant. This is also one of the greatest seasonal differences between the Sativa and Indica producing regions.

Outdoors, the main light source is the Sun, with minor influence coming from nearby reflective surfaces. As a plant grows taller and broader outdoors, that angle of light from the sun changes very little in relationship to the growing plant.

Seasonal changes in angle of light increase the further away from the equator one gets. At the equator there is the least amount of seasonal change in angle of light, only about 20°, whereas at the 45th parallel that change is as great as 45°. At the 45th latitude, the Summer Sun is high in the sky while during early Spring and late Fall the sunlight comes from much lower in the sky. The farther one goes from the equator, the greater the difference in seasonal changes regarding angle of light.

Indoors, the lights typically range from a few inches to several feet from the plant. As the plant grows taller, its physical relationship to the bulb's angle of light changes considerably. Most indoor grow rooms have relatively low ceilings, therefore, raising the bulbs may maintain a similar angle of light early on, but eventually the angle changes. The same differences may be noted among plants directly below the bulb and the plants off to the side of the room farther away from the bulb.

Circular light shuttles tend to emulate the arctic summer and create a confusing signal completely unknown to the equatorial Sativa. Straight-track overhead light shuttles are more conducive to inducing the Sativa phenotype.

Many indoor growers try to get their budding plants as close to the light source as possible. Though this may increase bulk production of both bud and trichome, I find that this practice tends to destroy many of the finer aromatic qualities of the herb.

Buds too close to the light tend to express nothing beyond the lower lemon/lime aromas of the fruity spectrum. Sometimes the aroma is no better than a strong chemical/astringent odor and flavor, especially those under High Pressure Sodium light systems. The finer berry flavors tend to favor more distance from the bulb, and will manifest more strongly under High Ultraviolet Metal Halide light systems, especially during the latter stages of flowering.

Something akin to a gymnasium building with high ceilings and super 5000W lights hung far from the growing plants, set at a Sativa-tweaked photoperiod, would be the ultimate indoor grow-op to coax Sativa phenotypes.

Sweet spot fantasy

Nothing will ever rival the great outdoor sweet spots for quality cannabis production. Hopefully, someday, somewhere, someone will be daring and lucky enough to get away with re-establishing some of the great genetic lines in their specific region of origin sweet spots.

Equatorial Sativa varieties are of interest for quality herb production (Thailand, Oaxaca, Colombia, Central Africa, etc.) as the Indica zones are more renowned for hashish production. Parts of Nepal tend to produce both excellent hashish and fine Sativa buds, with some plants reportedly living longer than two years!

I hope that I am able to live long enough to once again experience the joy associated with the fine herbal products from the great regional sweet spots of near ancient lore. It has been a long time and I am looking forward to the day.

_


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## john pickle (Nov 24, 2010)

yeah im doing 10-11/13-14 im not exactly sure but its somewhere in there and my girls are happier than shit in a rectum


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## Zaehet Strife (Nov 25, 2010)

ty so much for the info mejuana, i really really appreciate it man


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## homebrewer (Nov 25, 2010)

MeJuana said:


> I am considering 10.5 on and 13.5 off but I was a little timid so this run I am 5 weeks in on 11.5 on 12.5 off but all is well and the buds are swellin up fine.. I went and hunted down something DJ Short wrote this is third party copy/paste _but like way cool dudes
> 
> Something DJ Short wrote.
> 
> ...


_Equatorial regions see 12/12 year round, so why does he suggest 11/13 for flower? If anything, he has it backwards with his indica/sativa light cycles._


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## mr.bond (Nov 28, 2010)

Equatorial regions do NOT see 12/12 year round. While they vary less in seasonal changes than say, the arctic regions, they still vary. 11/13 is much closer to what the equatorial regions experience. Otherwise the sun would hover over the equator all year long, which is not the case.

Mr. Bond


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## Homergrown (Nov 28, 2010)

.......................I was wrong so I editted my post.


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## DrFever (Nov 28, 2010)

IMO growing indica i found best results last week of veg introduce flowering agents half dosage day of switching to flower left lights off 24 hrs, then went on 12 / 12 with a maintained temp of 65 lights on and with lights off temp drop to 60 humidity levels 50
3 days into this there flowering like crazy i believe that running your room like nature, Fall is colder temps but the sun is still fairly hot 
so think of it that way tempuratures people thats the ticket 

thinking most people do not have a really controlled room as to control everything so imo running 12 / 12 would be benificial as temps don't drop to drastically in the 12 hrs of dark im sure many will say by the time 12 hrs of dark passes there rooms could be in below 60 degrees if grow rooms are recieving proper fresh air from out side 

now goin to 11/ 13 i have never tryed this nor care 2


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## rowlman (Nov 28, 2010)

...what if you flower 10/10....if your plants think 10/10 is a full day, then you will gain 1 day every 6 days(with the extra 4 hours each day)...so a 60 day flower will be complete in 50 days...this is a thought i've been pondering over for a while now...seems to make sense in my twisted mind...idk


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## mae (Nov 28, 2010)

Very interesting thought, rowlman.

Might be worth a try.


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## homebrewer (Nov 28, 2010)

mr.bond said:


> Equatorial regions do NOT see 12/12 year round. While they vary less in seasonal changes than say, the arctic regions, they still vary. 11/13 is much closer to what the equatorial regions experience. Otherwise the sun would hover over the equator all year long, which is not the case.
> 
> Mr. Bond


They do not have seasonal changes at the equator and they DO have 12/12 year-round. Have you ever been to it? There are rainy seasons and dry seasons, there are hot and hotter seasons, but you do not see spring or fall or summer. Don't take my word for it, read the links below on equatorial day length:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equator


> _Such places also have a theoretical constant 12 hours of day and night throughout the year, though in practice there are variations of a few minutes due to the effects of atmospheric refraction and because sunrise and sunset are measured from the time the edge of the Sun's disc is on the horizon, rather than its centre._


http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/whys/day_equator.htm


> _*Question:* __Is the length of day and night equal at the equator?_
> _*Answer:* There are two answers depending on how you define sunrise and sunset at sea level. The complicating problem is the atmosphere which bends the sun's rays so that we see the sun sphere before it actually is on the horizon._
> _If you do not consider the atmosphere's influence and calculate sunrise and sunset when the true solar disk is on the horizon, then day and night are equal on the equator. Since the actual difference is small, many models assume 12 hours for each._
> _However, those who calculate the true times (US Naval Observatory, Greenwich Royal Observatory) add a few minutes to sunset and subtract a few for sunrise to account for the atmospheric refraction. Thus, the equatorial day is 6-8 minutes longer than the night._
> ...


http://rainforests.mongabay.com/amazon/rainforest_ecology.html


> _[FONT=arial,verdana,sans-serif][FONT=arial,verdana,sans-serif]This intensity is due to the consistent day length on the equator: 12 hours a day, 365 days per year (regions away from the equator have days of varying length). This consistent sunlight provides the essential energy necessary to power the forest via photosynthesis.[/FONT][/FONT]_


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## legallyflying (Oct 3, 2015)

Longer light cycles in flower work. Period. Regardless of regional genetics, plants will photosynthesize at favorable rates for 20 hours. They still create starches after 20 hours but at a slightly lower rate. 

Our hybrids start flowering at 14/10. Two weeks later we go 13/11 then 12/12 and the last two weeks 10/14. 

The more gradual the shift the better. Google plant circadian rythm. There is a Google scholar doc that measures leaf tissue gas exchange as an index to photosynth. 

Good info above about terps, light distance and quality. We run 16" from 1k bulbs until the last two weeks then cut the power down to 600 or 400. 

More light, more carbs, more growth. Nothing mysterious here


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## legallyflying (Oct 3, 2015)

Btw. Love Dr fevers quote "proper fresh air from outside" 

Lol. The only time our plants see outside air is when I briefly open the door. 

Does proper mean full of bugs and mold spores?


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## Gquebed (Oct 7, 2015)

There is a thread in here about the gas lamp method where flowering is done on a 6/18 routine and it is said to increase yield and it helps the girls finish faster. And theres grows online that appear to support it so... i think going 13/11 is going the wrong way. 

When i flip im going to go 10/14 and see whats happens....


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## legallyflying (Oct 9, 2015)

Here is a thought.. do you think... just by chance, that plants have evolved over 10's or thousands of years to take advantage and maximize their reproductive success given natural conditions? Gass lamp, ass lamp


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## homebrewer (Oct 9, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> Here is a thought.. do you think... just by chance, that plants have evolved over 10's or thousands of years to take advantage and maximize their reproductive success given natural conditions? Gass lamp, ass lamp


We're not dealing with 'natural conditions' indoors. We're also not concerned with 'reproductive success' either. Maybe your point is more in regards to performance, growth, or yield, but that still doesn't mean that things can't be manipulated indoors to better fit our goals.


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## legallyflying (Oct 9, 2015)

Dude, I know you are smarter than that. Unless your goal is saving electricity or just messing around to see what happens, there is absolutely no reason to go bat shit crazy with all kinds of ridiculous lighting schedules. 

The comment about natural plant evolition was mostly referring to plant circadian rythms. Plants get "used to" a particular light pattern, and it takes time. 

Here is a hint, instead of trying to figure out some magical way to increase yield.. try dialing in climate and light saturation.


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## legallyflying (Oct 9, 2015)

BTW.. reproductive success in plants is often a measure of their ability to produce flowers and opportunity for pollination. 

Indoors is "not natural" but that doesn't mean you start tweaking things that don't make a difference. 

It's not rocket science folks. And no, your not smarter than research botanists.


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## homebrewer (Oct 9, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> Dude, I know you are smarter than that. Unless your goal is saving electricity or just messing around to see what happens, there is absolutely no reason to go bat shit crazy with all kinds of ridiculous lighting schedules.
> 
> The comment about natural plant evolition was mostly referring to plant circadian rythms. Plants get "used to" a particular light pattern, and it takes time.
> 
> Here is a hint, instead of trying to figure out some magical way to increase yield.. try dialing in climate and light saturation.


It is a fact that with a gas light type schedule that one can reduce stretch and speed up cannabis flowering times. How both of those affect yield as compared to a 'normal' light cycle is not something I know. For those with time and space constraints, this light schedule manipulation can be a tool.


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## legallyflying (Oct 10, 2015)

Lol. Come on. You can't be serious. Reduce stretch through minimal temp diff in the first couple weeks of flower. I have read multiple threads on Gass lamp and they all said the same thing... bullshit. 

Anyways.. what you been up to? We are building another 48k watt flower room at the warehouse. Rec weed has been a boom for us. Who knows what the future holds but for right now.. MORE POWER!!!


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## homebrewer (Oct 10, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> Lol. Come on. You can't be serious. Reduce stretch through minimal temp diff in the first couple weeks of flower. I have read multiple threads on Gass lamp and they all said the same thing... bullshit.
> 
> Anyways.. what you been up to? We are building another 48k watt flower room at the warehouse. Rec weed has been a boom for us. Who knows what the future holds but for right now.. MORE POWER!!!


Personally, I don't mess with my light cycles, I don't think it's really necessary. But I do know folks who do and there are those who run an 11/13 for long flowering sativas to help them finish. I've messed with 11/13 for my 100+ day sativas and I don't think it sped anything up actually. 

48K expansion? Do you guys grow any longer flowering sativas?


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## churchhaze (Oct 10, 2015)

I run 13/11 with a short 730nm pulse after lights out. This increases DLI (daily light integral) by 1/12 without increasing light intensity. It also reduces the night period the plant uses it's starch reserves by 1/12th thus increasing the rate of starch metabolism at night.. This results in a higher yield.

11/13 will decrease yield for the opposite reason. It means a decrease in DLI and an increase in night length, and thus a slower metabolism of starch at night.


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## 4ftRoots (Oct 10, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> I run 13/11 with a short 730nm pulse after lights out. This increases DLI (daily light integral) by 1/12 without increasing light intensity. It also reduces the night period the plant uses it's starch reserves by 1/12th thus increasing the rate of starch metabolism at night.. This results in a higher yield.
> 
> 11/13 will decrease yield for the opposite reason. It means a decrease in DLI and an increase in night length, and thus a slower metabolism of starch at night.


I do the same thing and my yields definitely increased


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## legallyflying (Oct 11, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> I run 13/11 with a short 730nm pulse after lights out. This increases DLI (daily light integral) by 1/12 without increasing light intensity. It also reduces the night period the plant uses it's starch reserves by 1/12th thus increasing the rate of starch metabolism at night.. This results in a higher yield.
> 
> 11/13 will decrease yield for the opposite reason. It means a decrease in DLI and an increase in night length, and thus a slower metabolism of starch at night.


Botany fail. Wrong wrong wrong. Cannabis metabolism of starch occurs all day and night. Here is a novel idea, actually know something before you post it. 

Plant metabolism is largely based on temperature and the amount of starches present. It happens during the day and the night. The rate of metabolism is not based on the length of night.


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## churchhaze (Oct 11, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> Botany fail. Wrong wrong wrong. Cannabis metabolism of starch occurs all day and night. Here is a novel idea, actually know something before you post it.
> 
> Plant metabolism is largely based on temperature and the amount of starches present. It happens during the day and the night. The rate of metabolism is not based on the length of night.


You're right that plants metabolize _sugars _(glucose/sucrose) during both the day and night, but during the day those sugars are also used to synthesize starch which is stored in chloroplasts so it can be broken down at night.






http://www.botinst.uzh.ch/research/physiology/dianasantelia/research.html








http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpls.2012.00305/full











http://www.tankonyvtar.hu/en/tartalom/tamop425/0010_1A_Book_angol_01_novenyelettan/ch03s02.html






http://rsif.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/11/91/20130979






https://www.jic.ac.uk/staff/alison-smith/Control of starch_metabolism_in_leaves.html

I do see a botany fail... but it's not mine...


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## churchhaze (Oct 11, 2015)

As you can see from all those charts and studies, the rate of starch being converted to sugars *is determined by the length of the night!* The shorter the night, the quicker it uses the starch _reserves_. It knows how long the night will be, and uses starch at a rate so that it has 0 left at sunup.


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## WattSaver (Oct 11, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> As you can see from all those charts and studies, the rate of starch being converted to sugars *is determined by the length of the night!* The shorter the night, the quicker it uses the starch _reserves_. It knows how long the night will be, and uses starch at a rate so that it has 0 left at sunup.


Thank you for the articles, a couple were over my head but the one from frontiersin.org really described starch construction and use during the light cycle really well. So I would assume that this regulation would would be the same at the other far swing of a 6/18 cycle. So that brings us back to the original basic question, is there a limit of light and photosynthesis, that a plant can handle? I only pose this question because of this last summers indoor grow. First off I always start my lights at the flip at 11/13, I grow mainly sativa's, and they seem to jump into flower better at this lessor light. So this last summer I was having a bad heat problem so I said Fu-- it and dropped my light to 9 1/2 hrs. This got my temps to acceptable on the hi end. I started this at day 25 and went to the end. The plants were very happy and were more fragrant than they had ever been. I don't know if this was of the heat reduction or if the was the reduction of time under the 1K bulb. Maybe the plants got near their photosynthesis potential with the reduced light and there was no need for anymore??? 
I can tell you that the reduced light did not decrease or increase the flower time.


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## legallyflying (Oct 12, 2015)

I don't see where the rate of starch assimilation is that much greater. In the above graphs measuring starch reserves, they are all at or very near 0 at the end of the 24 hour period. 

I would hazard that increased yields seen by 13/11 is based on the fact that there is an additional hour of photosynthetic reactions from the additional hour of light, not so much based on an increase in the rate of starch reserve assimilation. My point being the rate would be somewhat negligible as the net result at the end of the night period would be zero starch reserves. Say a rate of 1.0 for 12 hours or 1.2 for 11 hours. 

No?


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## churchhaze (Oct 12, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> I don't see where the rate of starch assimilation is that much greater. In the above graphs measuring starch reserves, they are all at or very near 0 at the end of the 24 hour period.
> 
> I would hazard that increased yields seen by 13/11 is based on the fact that there is an additional hour of photosynthetic reactions from the additional hour of light, not so much based on an increase in the rate of starch reserve assimilation. My point being the rate would be somewhat negligible as the net result at the end of the night period would be zero starch reserves. Say a rate of 1.0 for 12 hours or 1.2 for 11 hours.
> 
> No?


Look at the first graph (figure A). The red curve shows a 12 hour day while the blue curve a 6 hour day. The red curve's downward slope during the night is greater than the slope of the blue curve. This is despite only accumulating a small amount of extra start during the day. (the peaks are very close). A greater slope means a greater rate of starch being converted to sugars.

The plant somehow remembers the length of previous nights and uses that information to control how fast it re-mobilizes chloroplast starch during the night. If the night goes longer than expected, the plant goes into a dormant mode where growth is stopped.


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## Andrew2112 (Oct 12, 2015)

I have been using a 13 hr veg cycle with the 13th hour coming on in the middle of the dark period to prevent flowering and keep the plants shorter and bushier. They grow at a good rate and are ready to flower with less of a stretch at the start of flowering. I have also been using 11/13 and 10/14 cycles for flowering to save money it works and I have good results. Even auto flowers grown in the flowering light cycle their entire lives perform well. I have not noticed a reduction in flowering time though.


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## rkymtnman (Oct 12, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> Look at the first graph (figure A). The red curve shows a 12 hour day while the blue curve a 6 hour day. The red curve's downward slope during the night is greater than the slope of the blue curve. This is despite only accumulating a small amount of extra start during the day. (the peaks are very close). A greater slope means a greater rate of starch being converted to sugars.
> 
> The plant somehow remembers the length of previous nights and uses that information to control how fast it re-mobilizes chloroplast starch during the night. If the night goes longer than expected, the plant goes into a dormant mode where growth is stopped.


so if the last part is true, then giving the plant extended darkness right before chop "should" have no effects since the plant is dormant. or is that not true?


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## churchhaze (Oct 12, 2015)

rkymtnman said:


> so if the last part is true, then giving the plant extended darkness right before chop "should" have no effects since the plant is dormant. or is that not true?


That's what I think. After a normal night's length of darkness, almost all the leaf starch will have been converted to sugar and burned off.


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## rkymtnman (Oct 12, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> That's what I think. After a normal night's length of darkness, almost all the leaf starch will have been converted to sugar and burned off.


it never made sense to me that 72 hrs of dark would make the plant more potent or produce more resin. i've always chopped right before lights come on.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 13, 2015)

homebrewer said:


> Personally, I don't mess with my light cycles, I don't think it's really necessary. But I do know folks who do and there are those who run an 11/13 for long flowering sativas to help them finish. I've messed with 11/13 for my 100+ day sativas and I don't think it sped anything up actually.


Same here


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 13, 2015)

The hormonal response (degree of phytochrome production/accumulation) is either on or off for indicas or indica doms (mutts).

With PURE sativas, the flowering response is not so much triggered by a hormonal respnse as it is by chronological age as Cruz realized growing out my Dalat. Everything had finished by the time it started flowering and like I told him, once it does, it takes off like a rocket....like over night. He grew it outdoors at around the 40th latitude where the photoperiod had a profound flowering effect on his mutts.

Showing about 1/2 of one Dalat.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 13, 2015)

rkymtnman said:


> it never made sense to me that 72 hrs of dark would make the plant more potent or produce more resin. i've always chopped right before lights come on.


See my sig line.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 13, 2015)

WattSaver said:


> So that brings us back to the original basic question, is there a limit of light and photosynthesis, that a plant can handle?


Yes, which I've discussed a hundred times. It's called the plant's light saturation point such that "more is less". This is a concept folks need to research.


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## fishdeth (Oct 19, 2015)

Subbed !
Just flipped a few days ago, 12/12.
So... 13/11 ?
I would like to try that I think.
Hope it won't confuse the plants too much, from 18/6 to 12/12 to 13/11 ???


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## fishdeth (Oct 19, 2015)

Errr... I meant 11/13.


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## churchhaze (Oct 20, 2015)

11/13 will reduce yield..


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## churchhaze (Oct 20, 2015)

WattSaver said:


> So that brings us back to the original basic question, is there a limit of light and photosynthesis, that a plant can handle? I only pose this question because of this last summers indoor grow.


After about 800ppfd, you start to see hard diminishing returns.


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## churchhaze (Oct 20, 2015)

So it's better (when you can) to increase daylight hours rather than light intensity.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Oct 21, 2015)

Plants are phototropic. They rely on light, Co2 and nutrients to perform. If you limit them to a set amount of lite hours, you get what you give. If you give the most you can while still predominating the bloom cycle they will crank even harder. I have found that starting at a 18/6 and going down to 12/12 by the 9th week produces more robust and prolific plants and flowers. Some strains like sativa Dom varieties need to go as low as 6/18 to force ripen.


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## WattSaver (Oct 25, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> After about 800ppfd, you start to see hard diminishing returns.


Thanks for this chart, but correct me if I'm wrong this just shows shows the rate that the plant can absorb photons, not the overall absorption a plant can handle through a light cycle and still be able to use up all the starch it made during the dark cycle. When I think of my outdoor grows where the direct sunlight is well over 800 moles/ second/ square meter. The plants during veg will make more leaf and wood than those indoors. During flower things seem to change a bit. My friend has a very sunny grow area so probable still gets 8 to 9 hrs direct, and the girls seem to get a little limp in the late afternoon to early evening not wilted but not at attention. Mine with only 5hrs direct stayed pretty much at attention. There are many differences between our grows, but I've wondered if light was the difference. I may be wrong but it seems to me there is a light saturation point during a light cycle, where less than 12 hrs of light might do the same work as a full 12 hrs. 
There was an article in Skunk mag awhile back that said 6hr of light was enough. There are some scans of the article in another thread a couple of post down on this page


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## erodas (Oct 30, 2015)

rowlman said:


> ...what if you flower 10/10....if your plants think 10/10 is a full day, then you will gain 1 day every 6 days(with the extra 4 hours each day)...so a 60 day flower will be complete in 50 days...this is a thought i've been pondering over for a while now...seems to make sense in my twisted mind...idk


I was also wondering why people stick to 24 hour cycle, when it's fully controlled environment. You could do that in vegging too.


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## Canna_Man (Nov 4, 2015)

Your flowering cycle should be 12/12 no debate about it. I think there is one or two growers who spoke about using 13/11 to get certain trait characteristics to become expressed using that alternate light cycle. But not many people large or small use that cycle for a reason. The 12/12 light cycle is used and implemented for decades because it is tried and true. The only light cycles that can be played with are for veg. Which may be 24-0, 20-4 or the other common 18-6. Other than these veg cycles the bloom cycle should be 12/12.

I think recently some scientists have been doing some pretty innovative shit regarding light cycles involving various light and dark periods throughout the week And it is called phytochrome manipulation, which uses far red light spectrums to put plants into sleep shortening the dark periods and gaining light periods which claim to increase yields exponentially. I dont have any first have knowledge and the intracacies of these methods nor do I know exactly how they work but have read a few articles and discussions from scientists expirementing with this right now. Google it and you can find information on it in several places on the web. I think it is still in the process of fine tuning and nothing is set in stone whether or not it is worth doing. 

12/12 cycle is the way to go and is the ideal period of light and dark needed to get the best results for bloom. By nature cannabis needs 12 hours of dark to bloom the best therefore the other 12 the lights should be on. When people argue that it is dark outside for only 10 hours etcc thats because although it is still "light out" and not exactly 12 hours of dark to initiate flowering is because of the type of light and spectrum the plants are getting which is the far red spectrum which is forcing the plants to go to bed and isnt the light they use to grow. We cannot see these light waves or colors like plants. That where the phytochrome expriment comes into play using these red light waves to alter the light periods gaining something like 14% more light during flowering without effecting the plants internal clocks. But google it and read up fr yourself if you want a better understanding because I dont know if I am even explaining it 100% accurately. But it is along those lines.


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## fishdeth (Nov 4, 2015)

How about the "Gas Lantern Routine" ?


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## churchhaze (Nov 4, 2015)

Canna_Man said:


> I think recently some scientists have been doing some pretty innovative shit regarding light cycles involving various light and dark periods throughout the week And it is called phytochrome manipulation, which uses far red light spectrums to put plants into sleep shortening the dark periods and gaining light periods which claim to increase yields exponentially. I dont have any first have knowledge and the intracacies of these methods nor do I know exactly how they work but have read a few articles and discussions from scientists expirementing with this right now. Google it and you can find information on it in several places on the web. I think it is still in the process of fine tuning and nothing is set in stone whether or not it is worth doing.


There are a bunch of us here that use phytochrome manipulation using 730nm leds for 5 minutes immediately after lights out to convert Pfr to Pr faster than darkness would. This is what allows us to get 13 hours of daytime without changing effective night length. The 730nm pulse after lights out increases effective night length somewhere around 1-2 hours.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-far-red-thread.867665/

If you use the 730nm pulses after lights out on a 12/12, you will actually shave off a few days from flowering as if you were using shorter nights.


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## SPLFreak808 (Nov 4, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> 11/13 will reduce yield..


Will they finish sooner?


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## Stone76 (Dec 22, 2015)

I've flowered several times on a 11/13 light cycle with excellent results. Increased yield and resin production but only with sativas or sativa dominant hybrids/phenos. Of course the pay off is an extended flowering period of 3 weeks. Anyway that's been my experience.


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## NWbordergrower91 (Dec 23, 2015)

Zaehet Strife said:


> just wondering... ive been flowering for 29 days now and i just had an idea that maybe if i turn my lights on 13/11, it might increase my yeild..but could take longer to flower maybe im not sure. i looked some stuff up on it but i cant find much, and i wont change my lights until im sure i have some legit experienced feedback. anyone tried 13/11 and noticed any difference? im growing indica


If you're using HID lighting then I wouldn't risk it. People do run 13/11 with hps, however you run the risk of naners (a slight type of herming out). If however you are up to using led, then you can get your flower cycle up to 14/10 with 0 problems. Looks into flower initiators in the LED section on here and you will be pretty amazed. I've been using them for a little while now and haven't had any problems yet.


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## Psyphish (Dec 23, 2015)

I used to use 12/12, but then I started using 11/13. I don't know if there's any difference, but if it allows me to see some unique traits that don't show up with 12/12, I'm okay with it. There's a lot of "basic" generic bud around and I try to stay different.


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