# What Is Free Will, And Does It Exists?



## BongTokinAlcoholic420 (Jan 31, 2011)

Nobody truly knows for sure, yet. But I have a hunch that we aren't in control of anything. But we are supposed to have this feeling of free will. So their really isn't any sense in arguing if it is true or not, because if it is true than that would mean you are destined to argue your sense of free will, which would be pointless to the determinist.


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## Heisenberg (Jan 31, 2011)

I would say you need to define free will and save this thread a few unnecessary posts.


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## BongTokinAlcoholic420 (Feb 1, 2011)

Free Will is you being able to make choices and think for yourself. I think we are made to think we have free will, or else mankind would have died along time ago. IMHO every event that happens in this universe was already destined to happen before it even happened. Because their is nothing their to stop that event from happening. And if their was something their to stop it then it would have stopped it. And their was always going to be something their to stop it. Other wise the event wouldn't have been or would have been changed. But I don't truly know, I mean I think I know but I can't be sure.


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## bunnyface (Feb 1, 2011)

So as I type this it has been predestined to happen. so weather I made the choice to post or not(which I did think well maybe I shouldnt as I was going to) isnt really my choice it was all ready going to happen. Is that what you mean? Is that not just Fate? OR is this a sort of the 'powers' make us think we have free will? cause thats not what I think you mean....
If I had not posted this to would of be preditermined?excuse my bad spelling, so with out sounding like I havnt got the point, there is no chance that I wasnt going to post? so I was always going to go on the net..where as I wasnt,I was going to play xbox,but had a look at the garden and theres a problem.(thats for another thread). So all that was predestine to happen. There is fate making this happen. ? so some are destine to fail. by what you say,some are always going to crash and burn,they have no control over how to change there life?
well if this is true then who/what has determined this? If this is true then the future can also be determined.we may not know it though. 
also if there was no 'free will' then bad thing are just going to happen then stop? so using WW2 as an example,,that was all just going to happen,,no one with free will to do as they please?weather they started it or had a choice to stop it. decomracy was always going to beat down fachism(if you see what I mean,)that would of all happend if there was no free will????
I hope this makes sense,,cause Im gettin confused,,
so I was always going to post,,not a choice is what your saying,,,there such a thing as fate..so you belive in fate then???is that it??
sorry,,take it easy


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## BongTokinAlcoholic420 (Feb 1, 2011)

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.


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## bunnyface (Feb 1, 2011)

ah,,okay,,fate.
Fatalism(belief in fate) is impossible to prove and impossible to disprove.
here...great read.The Dutch ay...http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sunrise/47-97-8/ka-prat.htm
hope that helps.


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## BongTokinAlcoholic420 (Feb 1, 2011)

But wouldn't I have to have been given an option to believe one or the other? And not forced to believe in one.


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## bunnyface (Feb 1, 2011)

Sorry but what?

. . who is forcing you to belive anything?
There may be 'free will' in the mind,and the idea of fate, but that dosnt mean any of it means anything on this small random rock in an expansive 'dimensional' space. Thats what I think.


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## Luger187 (Feb 1, 2011)

i think we do have free will, but are still affected by our emotions(which affects our decisions). its like constantly making decisions on what your going to do next. maybe something that happened a minute ago sparked your thought process. and by doing so, made u think of something that u would not normally think of. this might urge u to make a decision that u would not normally make.

its all somewhat random really, but it makes sense to the individual because WE are the ones making the decision, based on our experiences and beliefs. and collectively or individually, those decisions can be great or terrible.


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## BongTokinAlcoholic420 (Feb 1, 2011)

bunnyface said:


> Sorry but what?
> 
> . . who is forcing you to belive anything?
> There may be 'free will' in the mind,and the idea of fate, but that dosnt mean any of it means anything on this small random rock in an expansive 'dimensional' space. Thats what I think.


the thought came to me after having a bad dream. the dream gave me lots of anxiety and depression. but i remember thinking that this dream had to have had happened, as a result of an action i did in my past. and that action i did, i did it because their was no reason not to do it. and their was nothing their to stop me from doing it, because i thought it wouldn't do harm. but their was something their to stop all that stuff from happening, it would have happened. so i thought the whole universe had only one destination. and that gave me anxiety and depression. at least up until a month ago, after doing 800mg DXM and 20mg of Paxil, it came to me that it could be true. and that gave me very happy. but now if i think it's not true, then i get anxiety from that. because i already have it in my head that it's true.


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## bunnyface (Feb 1, 2011)

Sorry, I get you. well belive what you will. Im not saying your wrong in anyway.
A bad dream you say,,may I ask about the dream? I have great faith in dreams as a subcoinsious 'window', and dream can tell where we are going or more about a stress or somthing affecting you.
Im no expert, and will not claim to be,
MOre to your point though, Im not saying there is not cosmic life force. I cant prove this. I think we all as a mindful soicety is not to put pressure upon one single person to understand such a massive expansive universe. I dont think one enity(as we know it) can or unfortuantly will. 
take it easy


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## BongTokinAlcoholic420 (Feb 2, 2011)

yes it was an incestous dream about my sister. prior to that dream though i had been in a long state of depression and anxiety due to my purely obsessional OCD. in which i questioned my sexuality. but then somehow i believe, as a result of my ocd and my deep depression and anxiety, i "woke up" from this dream of reality. after waking up, i realized i was gay, but i had a form of ocd. this was amazing and i felt so relieved and happy. then 3 months later that dream happened and that's when shit went down hill. but luckily for me it sorta stopped after having that trip. atleast until yesterday. let me explain, when i was having these obsessive thoughts about determinism ( which at the time i had no word for it as i have never even heard of the two) i would brush them off as obsessive thoughts. it was this constant circle. of whether or not determinism is real or i'm just obsessing about it. now something happened yesterday, but before i elaborate you i want you to know that up until the "trip of dxm and paxil" the thought of determinism and how the universe could have only one destination brought me great anxiety and depression. but after the trip, i was sort of in this daze of " everything is in perfect order and the universe is pre determined. like i felt the flow of the universe in which i used to deny and just say it was an obsessive thought. so i got happiness from the thought of determinism. now yesterday the thought popped into my head that maybe this determinism is true, and that it was only an obsessive thought. and that too brought lots of anxiety and grief. i'm still feeling as though a semi truck rammed my fucking head over. it's ridiculous. because i was always aware that i could be wrong, but it never occured to me that i would just think, again, that the thought of determinism is only related to my ocd, and that it might not be true because of that. so now i'm totally fucking confused, and my life is going absolutely no where. fucking sucks, because at least before i knew that my life was destined and i had no choice but to be their. buy now holy shit this sucks...


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## BongTokinAlcoholic420 (Feb 3, 2011)

heres another thing. back when i would get anxiety from the thought of my life and the universe being predestined, i tried to push it away as an obsessive thought as i have OCD. and when that happened i would say " oh i was determined to think the determinism is a ocd trait" so like a vicious circle for a year and a half. then a month or so ago, when i had that trip, i no longer rejected it the moment and the idea the everything is predestined. in fact i became incredibly euphoric and kinda manic. so eventually i went to a state hospital. anyways a day or so ago, the thought popped into my mind "what if the determinism in which i thought was absolutely true, was just an obsessive thought." that gave me anxiety at first, but now i just don't feel that same feeling i had. it was like an amazing feeling to just be in the moment and realized that you're not in control AT ALL. i loved it, but now i believe the ocd made it go away. that's ok though because i still think human actions are a result of the past. and past can never be undone. so the future is destined in one direction. which is this one.... and if their is a god, then it would know all of this. that's also why i think we have deja vu, it's the mind trying to tell us that each moment has already happened in the future, but just hasn't shown it self to you in the moment. at least until you're in that moment. lol but i dont know


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## kingofqueen (Feb 13, 2011)

You expressed free will by making this post .


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## VER D (Feb 21, 2011)

to me free will is the right to go back and forth between good and bad instead of doing something bad one day making u a bad person the rest of your life or being a good person all the time its also the power to be able to do something bad out of good or doing something bad in order to do something good and the same goes with doing something good to do something bad


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## Coolwhip (Feb 23, 2011)

I kind of get what you are saying, but we definitely have at least the free will to choose between options, it is just the brain is pushing us towards options it likes.

You have free will to control your actions, but the brain wants what the brain wants. You don't control your brain, just your body.

Think about survival instinct, or life saving reflexes. The brain does that, you don't necessarily "decide" to catch yourself if you start to trip, or duck from a flying object.
And if "you" didn't decide to do it, then "someone else" made you do it, your brain. How can you say you have true and complete free will if sometimes you do things you didn't decide to do?

You can apply similar lines of logic to addiction. You ALWAYS reserve the right to NOT to drugs, you control your body, but sometimes your brain is really really trying to convince you to do the drugs. How can you say you have true and complete "free" will if something which is not you, is urging you to do things.

You think you truly have free will? Try to drive your car into a ditch at high speeds. I bet you can't. Your brain won't let you.

In the end of course we all know there is nothing stopping you from driving the car into the ditch, you "could" do it, but for some reason we can't. How can you say you have "free" will?

Not everything we do is predetermined, but we are more likely to decide certain options over others, thanks to our brains. But this is because of DNA, diet, upbringing, youth development, etc. Not some universal force controlling everything.

we ARE always "free" to choose the bad or worse options but it may be hard to, which is why our choices can sometimes cause emotions of guilt or happiness.

If we had truly "free" will then when we chose to do things we would be free from internal consequences such as guilt or fear or happiness, but we aren't, our brain influences the choices we make. But I wouldn't go so far as to say the choices have been made for us.


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