# Atheism



## PadawanBater (Oct 7, 2009)

To me, being an atheist is extremely enlightening. Tyler Durdens quote from Fight Club puts it in perspective... "it's only when you've lost everything that you're free to do anything". Being a believer, you are confined to your little box of conformity, you believe what your told to believe because if you don't, you won't get into the special club after you die. If you simply question it you're risking your entry. 

-for me, this is clear evidence of strike one. Only man could put such a rule into the requirement for belief. An omnipotent being wouldn't think of it and if it did, the consequences for questioning ones belief would be praised, not punished, for using that which your creater specifically gave to you in the first place. Knowledge. We wouldn't have it if we weren't supposed to use it.

Atheism increases my sense of empathy, directly affecting my sense of morality, in a *positive *way. Once one realizes, or acknowledges, that this is the only chance we get at life, you begin to realize how prescious each and every one life is, and how equal each human being is. In the grand scheme of things, petty differences like skin color, nationality, etc. don't matter. None of it matters, only peace and happiness. I know it's starting to sound like some hippy shit, but honestly, I hear so many connectons between atheism and stuff like eugenics and the holocaust.. I mean seriously, "Hitler was an atheist, therefor atheism influenced the Holocaust" type stuff... I just wanted to clear up these ridiculous misconceptions some people have about what atheism is or how it contributes to a persons life. The thing is, most atheists used to be believers, so we can talk about religion knowing how it is, knowing what it's like, personally having been there. Becoming an atheist I've learned is a huge step to gaining knowledge. If you are not an atheist, there are certain things you are incapable of learning correctly, this is just from my experience and does not go for every believer. 

That scene from the Matrix, where Morpheus is offerring Neo the red pill or the blue pill is a *perfect *representation of becoming an atheist. The blue pill (the one he swallows) is representing atheism, once you swallow it, there is no turning back. "you take the red pill, the story ends, you wake up tomorrow and believe... whatever you want to believe. You take the blue pill, you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes..." Once you become an atheist, if you do it for the right reasons, I'd be willing to bet it is almost impossible to become a believer again at some time in the future unless God was actually proven worldwide at some point. Which is why when I hear *idiots *like Kirk Cameron claim they used to be an atheist, I can only pity them, for one they just outed themselves as a moron without even realizing it, and for two because they're sitting there trying to push their belief that says lying is a sin while lying to my face. Double dose of irony in a single interaction, incredible!

Anyway, yeah, I don't roast babies, I don't worship demons, I don't hate God, I don't give a fuck what you put on my money to be honest, I just want you to keep your religious legislation away from me and my family. If there's a law that is passed that has something to do with your God or what your God said is right or wrong and I don't agree with it, I'll fight it, because I'm an American and I have that right. You have the right to fight back, but you don't have any right to pass your imaginary friends words off and make em into laws. If you do, I do too. Oh I don't?! Then fuck you  , you don't either. 

Stop spreading misconceptions about atheism religious people. You wouldn't know what atheism was if it bit you in the ass, and a lot of you from these boards show that on a regular basis.

*PEACE!*


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## The Good Doctor (Oct 7, 2009)

Techincally speaking wouldn't being atheist be the opposite of enlightenment?


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## PadawanBater (Oct 7, 2009)

The Good Doctor said:


> Techincally speaking wouldn't being atheist be the opposite of enlightenment?


Not in the least son.


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## sqhschief (Oct 7, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Not in the least son.


Holy shit I agree with your post entirely padawan. I don't think of myself as an atheist, but more of an antagonist. However, every point you made in your writing makes perfect sense. +rep


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 7, 2009)

Exactly right, Padwan.I'm glad you have the energy to spell it all out.Sometimes, arguing with these religious folks is so mentally exhausting.


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## grow space (Oct 7, 2009)

Great thread PadawanBater...


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## CrackerJax (Oct 7, 2009)

The Good Doctor said:


> Techincally speaking wouldn't being atheist be the opposite of enlightenment?


Religion is the opposite of enlightenment.


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 7, 2009)

But...it makes SO much sense....






CrackerJax said:


> Religion is the opposite of enlightenment.


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## morgentaler (Oct 7, 2009)

Think of all those people waiting for "The Rapture". Supposedly 40% of the US population believe Jesus is coming to bring them up to heaven in the next couple of decades.
But what if they've mixed up Rapture and Raptor. We've all seen the picture. Jesus riding his velociraptor.
Maybe he's coming back to take people in "The Raptor" instead. With a great gnashing of teeth, and fountains of blood, the faithful will find their way to Heaven in the bowels of a giant featherless chicken.

While the atheists will be standing around saying, "Wow, I'm so glad I didn't fall for that stuff. More cake?"


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 7, 2009)

I've posted this before, but.....
*Jesusaurus Rex*

*From Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia.*

Jump to: navigation, search
​ _Jesusaurus rex_  *Kingdom* Animal *Phylum* Chordata *Class* Reptile *Order* Dinosaur *Family* Christ *Genus* Jesusaurus *Species* _*Jesusaurus Rex*_ *Binomial Name* _Jesusaurus Rex Christ_ *Primary Armament* Teeth and Eucharist *Secondary Armament* Feet with which to stomp on you *Power Supply* Holy Trinity *HP:* &#8734; +100000 *Mana Points:* &#8734; +100000 *Strength:* &#8734; *Intelligence:* {{{intel}}} *Weight* 10 metric tonnes *Length* 150-190 meters (that's about as b) *Special Attack*  *Conservation Status* Run away from it 

_*Jesusaurus rex*_ (jeez-us-soar-us rex) (lat. "King Jesus Lizard"), also known as _J. rex_ and "The Prophet of the Dinosaurs", is one of the final forms of Jesus, and is expected to visit Earth sometime around the year 2021. Not to be confused with Raptor Jesus or Jesusaur, Jesusaurus Rex is a carnivore, and he's out with a vengeance. 


*Contents*

[hide]


1 Characteristics
2 Reactions to Jesusaurus rex
3 Recent Discovery
4 See Also
 * Characteristics*

Jesusaurus Rex has all the incredible holy powers of Jesus Christ combined with the pure ownage of a T. Rex. What could be cooler than that? However, Jesus also has an aura of ownage about him, so here's some tips to tell the two apart. Jesusaurus Rex has: 
Big Scaly feet to crush the infidels 
Divine Smile of a Thousand Pointy Teeth 
Is so cool that people often explode by looking at him 
Tap Dances 
Eats demons instead of banishing them 
Enjoy's long strides on the beach, while firing lightning with his eyelashes 
* Reactions to Jesusaurus rex*

Faced with the threat of a giant angry Jesus, former U.S. president George W. Bush has had this to say: "It is with the deepest regret that I inform you, my fellow Pelicans, that a lot of you are pretty damn screwed. That's right all you stem-cell marauders, I'm talking to you. Trying to destroy the foundations of society is going to get you devoured by the Lord... save us Satan!"
Later investigations showed that George W. Bush did not, in fact say the above quotation, and it was actually just from some fat white old guy, also known as Dick Cheney. George W. Bush's actual words were "Jesusarus will never seek a permission slip to eat the American people." When questioned about what he meant to do about the _J-Rex_, Bush responded with "No act of the Jesusaurus Rex will change our purpose, or weaken our resolve, or alter our fate. God has blessed America, and we will survive his dinosaur."
Some Christians have taken the coming of _J-Rex_ as a sign that they will finally be floating off into heaven in the Rapture, while others of different faiths have had slightly different ideas. Known Scientologist Tom Cruise has been quoted as saying "People don't know the great things Jesusaurus will do, helping the community. It will be positive and wonderful. Hey, that plane reminds me of my awesomely homoerotic movie Top Gun. I made a lot of money off that movie you know. Being rich is really nice, you know, since I get to ride in limos and eat McDonalds all day." Cruise is reported as leaving the Scientology faith because it doesn't allow him to take his Ritalin any longer. 
* Recent Discovery*

A Jesusaurus Rex was recently discovered in a Gainesville, Florida man's backyard. An excavation is currently underway to determine why it arrived far before the initial estimated arrival year of 2021. It has been said that only true believers can view the remains safely, as a number of onlookers have been turned to dust after visiting the excavation site. 
 
Recently, a Jesusaurus Rex was used to make a miraculous breakthrough in redneck science (that's the best kind, by the way). Carl Sagan examined the Jesusaurus Rex's bones and discovered through carbon dating that, shockingly, in his own words, "'*Dr. Pepper' is the best soda ever made!*" Soon after that incident, he was found raping his own daughter and arrested. 
* See Also*



Tyrannosaurus Rex
Godzilla
Passion of the Christ: The Lord Strikes Back
Nazareth Park
DinoJesus
Pogo Snake



morgentaler said:


> Think of all those people waiting for "The Rapture". Supposedly 40% of the US population believe Jesus is coming to bring them up to heaven in the next couple of decades.
> But what if they've mixed up Rapture and Raptor. We've all seen the picture. Jesus riding his velociraptor.
> Maybe he's coming back to take people in "The Raptor" instead. With a great gnashing of teeth, and fountains of blood, the faithful will find their way to Heaven in the bowels of a giant featherless chicken.
> 
> While the atheists will be standing around saying, "Wow, I'm so glad I didn't fall for that stuff. More cake?"


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## nuera59 (Oct 7, 2009)

i love dinosaurs! not to cuddle though.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 7, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Think of all those people waiting for "The Rapture". Supposedly 40% of the US population believe Jesus is coming to bring them up to heaven in the next couple of decades.
> But what if they've mixed up Rapture and Raptor. We've all seen the picture. Jesus riding his velociraptor.
> Maybe he's coming back to take people in "The Raptor" instead. With a great gnashing of teeth, and fountains of blood, the faithful will find their way to Heaven in the bowels of a giant featherless chicken.
> 
> While the atheists will be standing around saying, "Wow, I'm so glad I didn't fall for that stuff. More cake?"


Jesus gave every indication that it would all happen soon (end of world)..... and of course nothing did, and Christianity was relegated to a backwater religion, which of course, is exactly what is it was. 

Now for at least the last 1500 years, if you asked almost ANY Christian if Jesus was coming back in their life times.... "OH YES!!! I think so!"

On and on it goes...... one sheep dies, and another is born.


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## Green Cross (Oct 7, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> To me, being an atheist is extremely enlightening. Tyler Durdens quote from Fight Club puts it in perspective... "it's only when you've lost everything that you're free to do anything". Being a believer, you are confined to your little box of conformity, you believe what your told to believe because if you don't, you won't get into the special club after you die. If you simply question it you're risking your entry.
> 
> -for me, this is clear evidence of strike one. Only man could put such a rule into the requirement for belief. An omnipotent being wouldn't think of it and if it did, the consequences for questioning ones belief would be praised, not punished, for using that which your creater specifically gave to you in the first place. Knowledge. We wouldn't have it if we weren't supposed to use it.
> 
> ...


You are a godless communist, and that's fine, but why do you feel the need to peddle your propaganda here?


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## litteringand... (Oct 7, 2009)

I gotta say nice post pawda! It wasn't until I stopped believing that I realized this is it I need to make the most of it. Green cross why do you say we spread propaganda when there is a bible in every hotel? stop whining because you have no leg to stand on. no one made you read this thread. propaganda is forced upon you and you chose to open this thread to tell us this is propaganda. Poor followers of jesus stuck in the majority dozens of lobbys defending your beliefs. poor poor you  To me being an atheist means shedding that human need to have someone watching you to deny death. As an atheist I embrace death because it is natural to die and, after my work is done and I have had my experiences I welcome death. If more people were focused on just living meaningful life and less on trying to get to heaven i believe the world would be a better place. Believing in something that isn't infallable (sp) like science and nature is truly enlightening.


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## morgentaler (Oct 7, 2009)

Can you imagine the petty little god of the bible being responsible for the creation of the universe and whatever lies beyond it?
I can't.


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## alwinjames13 (Oct 7, 2009)

Atheism is the way to go!! Religion is full of false beliefs, false gods, and false hope.

Religion is not logical, it is magical. And I have yet to see real magic. +rep for this post!

At BEST one could say God may or may not exist....... but don't waste a life on fear and worship


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 7, 2009)

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vuAUI_0knfk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vuAUI_0knfk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


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## morgentaler (Oct 7, 2009)

An excellent documentary reinforcing the need to reject religion and move on:

[youtube]VABSoHYQr6k[/youtube]


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 7, 2009)

Gee, Mr. Christian,I find it interesting that the first one to start name calling is the guy who claims the moral high ground.


Green Cross said:


> You are a godless communist, and that's fine, but why do you feel the need to peddle your propaganda here?


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## morgentaler (Oct 7, 2009)

Being called godless certainly isn't an insult to us atheists.

And communism works for some people. Like most governments it can be horribly corrupted, but for small population it can work quite well.

I like the concept of rational anarchy myself, but I know that it's not something that could be realistically put to practice. But the concept is admirable.

If we're godless communists, does that make you a religious fascist?


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## litteringand... (Oct 7, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Being called godless certainly isn't an insult to us atheists.
> 
> And communism works for some people. Like most governments it can be horribly corrupted, but for small population it can work quite well.
> 
> ...


im proud to be a godless heathen! capitalism is just as corrupted all it takes is money and lobbyist just like now. by the time a bill passes through all the greedy fucks it's a watered down hey we tried half ass peice of toilet paper. much like the healthcare bill.


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## guitarzan420 (Oct 7, 2009)

It's no insult to me. I was raised a S. Blasphemist and wouldn't piss in a preachers mouth if his teeth were on fire. Spout your fire and brimstone crap elsewhere. Heaven or Hell...it's all about how you live your life here on Earth NOW!!!! There is no later. So keep putting your head down and ass up and you will eventually get screwed(just like the little Catholic boys!). It's all about Peace on Earth and showing Good Will to your fellow man/woman not just hoping.


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## Iron Lion Zion (Oct 7, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> To me, being an atheist is extremely enlightening. Tyler Durdens quote from Fight Club puts it in perspective... "it's only when you've lost everything that you're free to do anything". Being a believer, you are confined to your little box of conformity, you believe what your told to believe because if you don't, you won't get into the special club after you die. If you simply question it you're risking your entry.
> 
> -for me, this is clear evidence of strike one. Only man could put such a rule into the requirement for belief. An omnipotent being wouldn't think of it and if it did, the consequences for questioning ones belief would be praised, not punished, for using that which your creater specifically gave to you in the first place. Knowledge. We wouldn't have it if we weren't supposed to use it.


Your explanation (everything follow "-for me"), actually hints at non-atheism. Rather it hints more at the perversion of religion by man.

While I am not an atheist - I do believe in God, I think too much of religion has been perverted by man so people will unquestioningly follow their church. I think living a "good/moral" life is much simpler than put forth by churchgoers. 

I believe pursuing happiness and assisting others in their own pursuit of happiness is all that matters. If you think about it, this covers every tenet set forth by the Bible/Koran/Pentateuch etc. Respecting your self and other's is all that is needed in my mind to prove your faith to a higher being...

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:34-35


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## morgentaler (Oct 7, 2009)

There is a distinction between theism and deism though. A person can reject theistic gods and still believe there is something out there.

So you can end up with gnostic atheists, agnostic atheists, gnostic and agnostic theists, deists, etc.

So having common ground with a theist does not necessarily bring him back into the fold.


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## Moldy (Oct 7, 2009)

> [You are a godless communist, and that's fine, but why do you feel the need to peddle your propaganda here? /QUOTE]





> Jesus Christ! Just because we don't believe in talking snakes, arks, and all that shit you call us commies? Fucking religion is the main reason for most of the problems in this world. Isn't there a section for religious chatter on this site?
> 
> Propaganda? Jesus Christ!


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## PadawanBater (Oct 7, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> You are a godless communist, and that's fine, but why do you feel the need to peddle your propaganda here?


Godless, yes, definitely. Communist? Not so much, I spend money I earned everyday, I'm pretty much a practicing capitalist, even if I don't always agree with the system... But thanks for your reply anyway, I was hoping you'd make an appearance. I started this thread with you and a few other people in mind specifically, hopefully a little of it got through. I'm sorry we're not all these terrible people your friends and parents told you atheists were, but that's life...



Johnnyorganic said:


> [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vuAUI_0knfk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vuAUI_0knfk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


Best scene ever!!



morgentaler said:


> Being called godless certainly isn't an insult to us atheists.
> And communism works for some people. Like most governments it can be horribly corrupted, but for small population it can work quite well.
> I like the concept of rational anarchy myself, but I know that it's not something that could be realistically put to practice. But the concept is admirable.
> If we're godless communists, does that make you a religious fascist?


Couldn't agree more with this post, you're already becoming a strong voice on the forum, good job keep it up! Can't even give you any more rep. 



Iron Lion Zion said:


> Your explanation (everything follow "-for me"), actually hints at non-atheism. Rather it hints more at the perversion of religion by man.
> While I am not an atheist - I do believe in God, I think too much of religion has been perverted by man so people will unquestioningly follow their church. I think living a "good/moral" life is much simpler than put forth by churchgoers.
> I believe pursuing happiness and assisting others in their own pursuit of happiness is all that matters. If you think about it, this covers every tenet set forth by the Bible/Koran/Pentateuch etc. Respecting your self and other's is all that is needed in my mind to prove your faith to a higher being...
> "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:34-35


In a sense, I guess you could call me a diest, except in my own mind, the likelyhood of the Christian God or Muslim God or any of the other gods we've created is so unbelievably low, you might as well just go ahead and say I'm an atheist, like less than 1% low. Who knows though, there could definitely be some other unknown force or being out there somewhere in existence that we've never even concieved of.. Could be anything really...


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## The Good Doctor (Oct 12, 2009)

I just do not recall any story about anyone going into the woods or there own backyard and meditating on the infinite, and then coming up with. 

There is nothing. 

Then being considered enlightened, by anyone. 

Even the Buddha didn't preach atheism. Nor Daoism, Satanism, Demonism, Shamanism, Confusism, the Vedas. 

Humph. . . obviously I could go on. Even most Scientists(Einstein lncluded) believe in "an impersonal deity/creator"


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## CrackerJax (Oct 12, 2009)

The definition of everything in the end is variable to some degree.

The non religious (myself included) have many sub categories.

Is Buddhism a religion? That's a tough call. It's a way of life, but there is no worship nor diety. Certainly no one worships Buddha

But as a whole, I consider myself to be an atheist. I do believe in the creation point, but cannot say with any certainty what was behind that creation point. 

I don't believe atheists think there is "nothing". It's more the rejection of a personal G*D who created the universe for the express reason of Earth and man. It's an awful waste of space.


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## fried at 420 (Oct 12, 2009)

as an athiest for many years actually since i was 12
i never found peace in beleiving in something that is scientificly impossible
science being the study of the TRUTH
beleiving in a "mythical","magical",or "all knowing" deity is simply improbable
but hey people are entitled to religeon without being discriminated against right?
i mean it says it in the 1st ammendment

i do beleive in evolution and the "Big Bang theory"


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## CrackerJax (Oct 12, 2009)

Rock breaks scissors.... theory breaks myth


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## Mango3330 (Oct 13, 2009)

Atheism helped opened my mind to all the bullshit that other religions perched about what's good and what's bad. But I do believe in a god and heaven but not in the picture frame of any religions around the world (as far as I know).


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## krustofskie (Oct 13, 2009)

If the idea of "God" could be separated from religion, I would have a lot more time for the "God" believers.

I have space in what I believe for "God", but I want some proof, which can never be provided so I will continue not Believing in a "God"

What I have no time for, whatsoever, is organised religion who have hijacked the idea of a higher being and warped it into an image for people as a means of control.

Please people, shed the shackles of your oppressive religions, believe in a "God" if you must, but its time to realise that the religions are falsehoods to imprison your minds from logic, reason and progressive thought, that and to get your money.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 13, 2009)

It was much better when we kept our G*DS ups in the sky. Once we brought them down and made them in OUR image.... ahem.... all hell broke loose.


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## morgentaler (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm not sure which book this was in, as I listened to several audiobooks on my last road trip. Possibly The God Delusion, but if anyone else knows feel free to correct me.

It was mentioned that, while Buddha's philosophies were very open minded, he also happened to be a Prince and had the opportunity to walk away from his minimalist lifestyle at any opportunity. Had he been forced into poverty his outlook might have been very different, and the situation he was in could have been referred to as 'slumming' today.

Kind of takes the wind out of Buddhism's sails too.

edit: Now I've got this image of "Paris Hilton and Prince Buddha: The Simple Life".


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## MexicanWarlord420 (Oct 13, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> The definition of everything in the end is variable to some degree.
> 
> The non religious (myself included) have many sub categories.
> 
> ...


There's an old saying(paraphrasing because I can't remember) when meditating, if you see the buddha, kill him.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 13, 2009)

Go see the Doc! If you see things... it's a vitamin deficiency.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 13, 2009)

take me with you jesus


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## krustofskie (Oct 13, 2009)

How many atheists does it take to change a light bulb?
_Two. One to actually change the bulb, and the other to videotape the job so fundamentalists won&#8217;t claim that god did it._


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## morgentaler (Oct 14, 2009)

So, I just checked the numbers on GodChecker today, and they're sitting at about 2850 deities. They still have a way to go, and haven't even nailed the 5000+ Catholic saints, but work's work, right?

It used to be that people believed in tons of gods. The Greeks believed in a dozen major deities and hundreds of minor ones.

The Norse even had two races of Gods.

But this has declined to the point where most of the religion on the planet has arrived at a single god.

So just a friendly message to the Christians and Muslims out there.

We're waiting. See you soon. If not this generation, then the next. 

Oh, one last thing.

There will be cake.


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## Mauihund (Oct 16, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Stop spreading misconceptions about atheism religious people.
> 
> 
> Still trying to preach your religion I see. All atheists are narcissitic cowards.
> ...


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## morgentaler (Oct 16, 2009)

Why do we talk about god, and the ridiculous notion of worshiping the main character in a book of fiction?

Because religious assholes keep trying to put their murderous deity in our schools and government.
Because religious assholes think it's okay to deny people equal rights because of a passage in a 2000 year old book written by racists and homophobes.
Because religious assholes have murdered people throughout history for the singular fact that they did not worship their god.

I think those three points by themselves are an excellent case for discussing the total abolishment of this dogmatic bullshit, and the hypocrisy and sickness of it all.

When religion stops forcing itself on us, we'll stop pushing back.


* and although not all religious people are asshole, their adherence to a book that promotes exactly those asshole values puts them right in the category with the other pricks.


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## Mauihund (Oct 16, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> When religion stops forcing itself on us, *we'll stop pushing back*. !!!!



I have to admit I was deeply moved by your candor and honesty. Thank you for admitting to the atheists crusade and agenda. It's obvious to everyone else....... just god to hear you say so.




morgentaler said:


> * and although not all religious people are asshole, their adherence to a book that promotes exactly those asshole values puts them right in the category with the other pricks.



This is what I mean by you are a coward. You try to add that little "not all religious people are assholes", as if you are fooling anyone with that nugget of insight. Yeah, no one see the contempt you have for all things spiritual. You are just fine, that was so smooth.


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm not an atheist. I was; until I realized I could not be *certain* of anything in the affirmative.

Agnostic does the trick for me. All that means is I have seen no proof either way. Until I see *solid* proof I am comfortable with "*Don't know*" even "*None of the above*" for an answer.

And like a multiple choice question, I can eliminate the *obviously* wrong answers first.

Which means I do not have invisible friends.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm in the same boat JO. I don't know what created everything we are aware of. It's okay to admit you don't know. 

The probability that a G*D created the universe for us and G*D is watching everything we do and judging all of our deeds.....that I simply place at the bottom of probability.

Besides, that's why we have Obama. He judges us all, he's making a list, and checking it twice.....wait I cross myth'd... sorry.


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## morgentaler (Oct 16, 2009)

Mauihund, You're one of the zombies, so I really don't care what you think.

As long as you believe in fairies and leprechauns and invisible men in the sky you're still a six year old.


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## morgentaler (Oct 16, 2009)

@JO and CJ

Same boat here. I don't see any reason to believe in a deistic cause for the universe, but I'm open to it should evidence appear.

On the other hand this biblical nonsense which claims to know God, Xenu, or Joseph Smith's angelic buddies is just a collection of poseurs trying to make it seem like they have the number of the red phone in the office of creation.


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## Mauihund (Oct 16, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> I'm not an atheist.


Then why are you posting on a thread about atheism? 



I'm beginning to see a theme. Act one way, then say the opposite: 

Obsess over God, his word, his creation, then say you don't believe. 


Argue and debate the lack of God's existence, then state that you are ignorant of the matter (Agnostic means ignoramus). 

If you were really ignorant, you would have no right to hold an opinion.

Which is it? Are you an ignoramus, or not? 


Who are you trying to fool?


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## Mauihund (Oct 16, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Mauihund, You're one of the zombies, so I really don't care what you think.
> 
> As long as you believe in fairies and leprechauns and invisible men in the sky you're still a six year old.



You are saying this to everyone on RIU (except the superior witted atheists). 


Coward.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 16, 2009)

Nope, just you. 
There are people who go all their lives believing the lies of religion, and then one day stop to question a single point, and then shortly thereafter have found so many flaws in its reasoning (and lack thereof) that they just walk away.

And there's people who aren't really religious, but that's what's expected of them so they go through the motions.

And then there are the zombies, wandering through life hoping to suck on god's teat for as long as they can, because the thought of this life ending, with no Angels to snuggle with and cherubs to molest, scares the hell out of them.

Keep on trucking, zombie boy.

(I'd include Brazko too, but I don't think he's one of the zombies. He's just posting to make noise and get his count up)



Mauihund said:


> You are saying this to everyone on RIU (except the superior witted atheists).
> Coward.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Oct 16, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> Then why are you posting on a thread about atheism?


One could ask you the same question.

I will post anywhere I choose on this forum. Thank you very much.


Mauihund said:


> I'm beginning to see a theme. Act one way, then say the opposite:
> 
> Obsess over God, his word, his creation, then say you don't believe.
> 
> ...


You're actually suggesting I do not have the right to express my opinion?


Mauihund said:


> Which is it? Are you an ignoramus, or not?


If *those* are my only two options, I'll take ignoramus.

Between *sanctimonious blowhard* and *pompous narrow-minded fool* - which are *you*?


Mauihund said:


> Who are you trying to fool?


Certainly not you. *Apparently* you have all the answers.


----------



## litteringand... (Oct 16, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> I have to admit I was deeply moved by your candor and honesty. Thank you for admitting to the atheists crusade and agenda. It's obvious to everyone else....... just god to hear you say so.
> 
> wow, that's nice you are impressed. Are you also impressed our crusade doesn't involve invading countries and murdering those that refuse to believe? How many people have died in the atheist crusades? it's ok i'll wait. Now in a former post you called atheism a religion which would be nice cause i could use the tax break but alas it isn't I also don't pay tithing and am able to decide what morality is to me not from some infallable asshole in a stupid hat, or some equally ridiculous self proclaimed prophet. If religions had their way we would still believe in spontaneous generation FFS!
> 
> ...


I can see how you would deem that cowardly because in religion that's all that exists is blanket statements like all atheists are stupid assholes. I personally don't believe that all religious people are assholes i do find you to be one though. It isn't contempt we have for spirituality it is doubt we have for the supernatural. bottom line is until an atheist comes to your door with a "free book" at 10 am wanting to analyze your life then you can bitch. until then STFU about atheism being a religion it is in fact by definition the exact opposite. morgentaler: I agree with your reasoning to not rule out the supernatural but I too would need some proof. If the bible is so true and it is proven and it is that evolution happened how come god wouldn't acknowledge this in his writings through other people highly suspect. anyway that is for another time.


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## PadawanBater (Oct 16, 2009)

> Still trying to preach your religion I see. All atheists are narcissitic cowards.
> 
> You don't just hate God and christians, you hate anything spiritual. And everone who thinks otherwise is considered ignorant and a fool (like 99% of people on this site and in the world, ever). Very sad for you to be so condisending.
> 
> ...


Maui, you don't have any idea what atheism means. That much is clear.

Atheism is as much a religion as bald is a hair color. 

I really didn't think this was necessary, but since you obviously don't understand the difference, let me draw it out for you... Tinkerbell, Santa, the Easter Bunny... nobody starts threads about them not because it's obvious they don't exist, but because there aren't 4.4 BILLION SHEEP walking around claiming they do, passing legislation or getting their symbols FORCED onto me in my life. 

I spend so much time and energy talking about God and religion because it is so dangerous to mankind. That is the bottom line. I'm not happy about our current living situation here on planet earth, I think we owe it to the future generations to come to try to give them the best future possible. The best possible future I can imagine is one without organized religion making everyones decisions for them. If you can't understand that, that's not my problem.

This idea that God MUST exist for anyone to talk about him is probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard anyone use as an argument for the existence of God. No seriously, THE STUPIDEST. And I've been doing this for almost 4 years, that's saying something...

I won't stop "obsessing" about God till the direct and indirect consequences of having billions of blind believers follow said God stops. Not that I feel like I have shit to prove to you or anyone else anyway. 

There's a big difference between the believer who reads his religious text and gets a basic code of ethics out of it, they interpret it as metaphors and anecdotes because they know snakes don't talk and people don't live to be 900 years old, they might get a decent idea of right and wrong, and the believer who reads his religious text, interprets it word for word as the litteral word of his God, actively DENIES established knowledge because it contradicts what the religious text says, preaches in open forums about his rights to FORCE his beliefs down everyone who disagrees throats, then BITCHES endlessly about "tolerance" because atheists are BRAVE enough to call RETARDS out on their BULLSHIT. We don't face the threat of death anymore, knowledge is my weapon and you can't defeat it. Hate to break it to you, but you do not have some of these "rights" you seem to think you have, simply because you think your magic sky daddy is more special than everyone elses... Sorry, don't work that way... 

One more thing, I'm loving the irony of your use of the word "coward" when describing atheism. Yes, it's the atheist whose the coward. The ones who want peace on earth, the ones that think all human beings are equal, the ones who strive for knowledge and progress, the ones who accept that life is not eternal, the ones who are not afraid of death, yes, we're the cowards... 

Let go of the fairy tale man, take it from me, life is much more enjoyable than you could ever imagine when your mind is free to think wherever it pleases.


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## morgentaler (Oct 16, 2009)

I wouldn't even so much use the word supernatural. An unknown with a natural cause more likely.

Like Dawkins points out, even if there is a being of creation, it had to evolve to become that complex 

There's even one matrix-like posit, that we're all just part of a complex simulation, and the creator could just be the equivalent of a graduate student running cycles.

I would at least hope the grad student has better things to do than order others to kill us because we don't believe in him 

I wonder if his Hell level is like Doom.




litteringand... said:


> morgentaler: I agree with your reasoning to not rule out the supernatural but I too would need some proof. If the bible is so true and it is proven and it is that evolution happened how come god wouldn't acknowledge this in his writings through other people highly suspect. anyway that is for another time.


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 16, 2009)

By the way, *Mauihund*....

I want a refund on all the property taxes I have paid which have subsidized houses of organized religion; which do not pay property taxes. 

Further, I wish an income tax refund on all taxes paid, in turn, which subsidized houses of worship; which are classified as non-profits.

Are you *still in the dark* as to why I obsess? It's because blind, dogmatic, bible-thumpers such as yourself have had a *free reign* in this culture of ours for *far too long*. 

You're losing your stranglehold on society and all you can do is rant.

Carry on... for we will carry the day.

One more thing, kindly remove your fucking *Ten Commandments* monument from the grounds of my *state capitol* because it ain't Constitutional.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 16, 2009)

The founding fathers were trying to protect us FROM religion.


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## Green Cross (Oct 16, 2009)

Religion is the opium of the people 

Origin
This is probably the best-known quotation by Karl Marx, the German economist and Communist political philosopher. The origin German text, in _Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right_, 1843 is:
Die Religion... ist das Opium des Volkes ​This has been translated variously as 'religion is the opiate of the masses', 'religion is the opium of the masses' and, in a version which German scholars prefer 'religion is the opium of the people'. The context the phrase appears is this:
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."


​


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## morgentaler (Oct 17, 2009)

Religion is the opium of the people... I can see that..

They both have their own houses.
They both have their own pushers.
Too much of either is toxic.
and both are used to create an artificial sense of well being.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 17, 2009)

The Good Doctor said:


> Techincally speaking wouldn't being atheist be the opposite of enlightenment?


No, not really. 

*Enlightenment.*
*education that results in understanding and the spread of knowledge*

To reach 'enlightenment' is too vague of a statement to make, what will you be enlightened about? everything? impossible, you cannot recreate a simulation of an equally complex universe just as much as you can't fathom the actual size of our planet in relevance to the rest of the universe. You cannot 'know' everything, according to even our most modern sciences, it's actually rather quite impossible on many fundamental levels. I made this post in another thread and It somewhat applies here.

I think it is just as easy to know there is a god as it is for me to know there is a small black kettle orbiting a sun in the crab nebula.

The probability is so seemingly small, so tiny and insignificant that the idea is brushed aside. Yes, as improbable and not impossible, but tell me then;

English breakfast or earl gray? Find me a proof for that and I'll believe in your 'God.'

the point of posting this snipit is this: The hypothetical of god existing isn't worth much of your time on the path of 'enlightenment.'



To truly be 'enlightened' in the concept or meaning that it is generally used, is to understand why. To understand that, you need to know How as well, these things come with a thorough education in the sciences of the universe, and the philosophy and psychology of man. 

Only then will we be able to fathom what the universe is, and what it means to us.


This is truly enlightenment.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 17, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> I think it is just as easy to know there is a god as it is for me to know there is a small black kettle orbiting a sun in the crab nebula.


Ooooh, you're one of those!
*I* happen to know that it's a silver teapot orbiting that sun.
You and your protestant kettle-ites are always stirring up trouble.
There is only the silver teapot, and if you don't believe you shall be very thirsty in the long, dark, tea time of the soul.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 17, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Ooooh, you're one of those!
> *I* happen to know that it's a silver teapot orbiting that sun.
> You and your protestant kettle-ites are always stirring up trouble.
> There is only the silver teapot, and if you don't believe you shall be very thirsty in the long, dark, tea time of the soul.


*Tosses back random snarkey Hipster retort in rebuttal of your claims towards there being a greater deep space tea deity than my own.* THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!


HIIIIGHHHLAAANNDDEERRRRRRRRR!!!!~~~~~~
*Screams about other nonsense incoherently*


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## robert 14617 (Oct 17, 2009)

if you have to keep convincing your self , what is the point


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## morgentaler (Oct 17, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> *Tosses back random snarkey Hipster retort in rebuttal of your claims towards there being a greater deep space tea deity than my own.* THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!


You're from London! That explains it.
As soon as I moved from there last month, you kettle-ites probably thought the coast was clear to spread your cockmamie black kettle theory to the masses.

I'm sending my flock to track you down. The price of apostasy will be steeped! Prepare to be creamed!


----------



## PadawanBater (Oct 17, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> if you have to keep convincing your self , what is the point


It isn't about convincing yourself. It's about educating the masses. Eliminating bad information and straight up propaganda. It's about "fighting" fair. 

Religious fundamentalists, the type who want to push their fairy tale in the science classroom and the ones who claim we live in a "Christian nation" PUSH propaganda, they spend millions of dollars on things like The Discovery Institute and their little follow up "museum of natural history" that depicts dinosaurs walking along side man... Then they parade CHILDREN though there and tell em this is how it happened.. That's nothing short of BRAINWASHING. It's MIND CONTROL. I don't stand for that shit, especially if I see it online where I can actually actively say something about it, like I do on this forum. It's easy for other people with any sort of intelligence or honesty to see which side is right and which side is wrong. That's what people like Babs, fish, GC, Shroomer don't get. Their attempts are pointless, we've heard it ALL before. ALL of their arguments they've ever brought up are completely unoriginal, coppied right off talkorigins.org or answersingenesis.com... None of them realize they just parrot the same stupid shit over and over again. It's because of that, stuff like "yeah, well there's no transitional fossils..." and "we didn't come from _monkeys_"... Stuff they cover in elementary biology classes, in 10th grade.

I don't know what it is... ignorance? Absolutely, they ignore actual data and fill in the blanks with what the Bible has to say...

Arrogance? In Babs case, absolutely, she's an insanely arrogant fundie if I've ever came across one. Positive she's right in her beliefs, unwilling to see anything from another perspective, she's also pretty rude actually too. Projects a lot, sits a top her horse way up in the sky wallowing in her own unreachable self righteousness... 

Stupidity? I don't think any of them are stupid. They just can't let go of the mental block in their mind that tells them information is evil, I think some of them are deathly afraid of the thought of non existence and can't fathom an existence where that's possible. Maybe they havn't even gotten that far.. who knows. None of them ever communicate an original opinion or thought, instead they only wish to discredit evolution, the big bang, or other valid scientific theories they don't know anything about... 

The only thing left to feel is honest, genuine pity, because they don't know what they're missing, and they don't even realize it.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 17, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> You're from London! That explains it.
> As soon as I moved from there last month, you kettle-ites probably thought the coast was clear to spread your cockmamie black kettle theory to the masses.
> 
> I'm sending my flock to track you down. The price of apostasy will be steeped! Prepare to be creamed!


We fear no evil, for our kind is one with the purity and retribution of our gods great word standing before us.

You shall know fear Heathen! 

On a lighter note though, where'd you move to? What's the scoop?


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## morgentaler (Oct 17, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> We fear no evil, for our kind is one with the purity and retribution of our gods great word standing before us.
> 
> You shall know fear Heathen!
> 
> On a lighter note though, where'd you move to? What's the scoop?


Ha! No tea puns! You a not a true tea leafer believer!

Moved to PEI. It's pretty cool to see the sky at night, but all the women over 25 are religious and addicted to food. On the plus side that just means I have to look for younger women.

We may have to unite our religions of pot/kettle against the dreaded peyote tea drinkers. Crazy hippies! They don't even drink it hot!

Blasphemers.


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## morgentaler (Oct 17, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> ALL of their arguments they've ever brought up are completely unoriginal, coppied right off talkorigins.org or answersingenesis.com...


The Counter Creationist Handbook really opened my eyes to how insane some of the people are out there.

Some are really dedicated, crafting extensive documents that would sound right to someone who hasn't actually read the science before, but are extensively cherry picked. So, as long as you don't actually go read the sources and see the rest of the original document, it sounds legit.

And heavy quote mining, like the "Darwin's Eye" argument that always quotes the paragraph where he says the eye is so complex as to seem impossible to evolve.

Haven't seen one fundie yet that acknowledges that the next several pages then go on to explain that it may seem impossible, but this it how it worked.

Though i don't expect them to have actually taken the original quote from a copy of The Origin of Species. Just from a fundie website, with none of the additional text.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 17, 2009)

They aren't even human... Them with there 'different beliefs' and 'opinions.' Why can't they be like normal people and follow. By follow I mean, follow the good wold of Jesus, my, and hopefully your personal lord and savoir of course! amen.
...
......
...

On another note,
PEI sounds awesome, small crowed. If I could find peyote....I'd be quite the happy fellow, but being where I am it's even hard to score lsd.
As for the women issue, thats some pretty tough cookies right there, but good luck! There was this girl who transferred to my highschool when I was a few years younger, born and raised from PEI. She was hot as shit, proper Irish girl too, the hot type of ginger kid. Was real nice. 

Enjoy the stars. And hopefully the women.


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## Stink Finger (Oct 17, 2009)




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## PadawanBater (Oct 17, 2009)

stink finger said:


>


 
------win!


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## morgentaler (Oct 17, 2009)

I love that warning. Perfect.

When I was six or seven, a couple of door knockers showed up and tried to convert my mother. She was more tolerant then, and didn't chase them off the property.

But anyway she said she wasn't interested, and they offered her a children's bible for me to read. So I take it, all excited, and go read the thing cover to cover. And when I was done, I stuck it on the bookshelf, beside Tanglewood Tales, and Norse Legends.

Nobody had ever told me about religion, for or against. It was just another bunch of stories. But for some reason the hero murders people and animals in floods, and does all kinds of crazy, crap to them, just for spite.

And then one day at school someone asks me if I go to church. No.
_*Religious kid: Do you believe in God?*_ *
Me:* Do I believe in god? You mean the god in the bible? You're kidding, right? You know it's just a bunch of stories, right?
*Religious kid: THE BIBLE IS TRUE!*

And thus began the fight against religious jerkoffs everywhere.

You should have seen the look on one kids face when I torched a bible in front of him just to show him I wasn't going to be hit by lightning. 

Yes, that's right fundies. I burned your holy book. I fired up those lovely onionskin paper pages right after it was forced on me by my public school principal. Yes, she took a bunch of 10 year olds into the AV room and tried to convert/save us, and then made every child take a bible.

Your priests molest our children, and your evangelists rape their minds.
Religion is just looking for a hole to fill, whether it's your heart or an 8 year old.


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## DaBull (Oct 17, 2009)

Enlighten? You mean like when they arrested Galileo for saying that the Earth revolved around the Sun, or when Columbus said the earth was round. How come they didn't arrest Columbus?


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## PadawanBater (Oct 17, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Religion is just looking for a hole to fill, whether it's your heart or an 8 year old.


 
A sig worthy statement my friend!


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## Iron Lion Zion (Oct 18, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Why do we talk about god, and the ridiculous notion of worshiping the main character in a book of fiction?
> 
> Because religious assholes keep trying to put their murderous deity in our schools and government.
> Because religious assholes think it's okay to deny people equal rights because of a passage in a 2000 year old book written by racists and homophobes.
> ...


You have an issue with religion, not God. The two are not one in the same, as you are assuming.


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 18, 2009)

DaBull said:


> Enlighten? You mean like when they arrested Galileo for saying that the Earth revolved around the Sun, or when Columbus said the earth was round. How come they didn't arrest Columbus?


*Columbus was arrested*, but not for heresy, or even introducing syphilis to the Continent.

It was political; orchestrated by his enemies. For the *atrocities* Columbus committed in service to Spain were *sanctioned* by the *Catholic Church* and the Court of King Ferdinand. 

The entire matter was dropped once he was permitted to plead his case before the King.


----------



## howhighru (Oct 18, 2009)

im a TRUE believer in my HIGHER POWER and it sure doesnt have to do with fuckin ATHEISM.. get a grip man


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## krustofskie (Oct 18, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> English breakfast or earl gray? Find me a proof for that and I'll believe in your 'God.'


It has to be English breakfast all the way, wether its the silver teapot or the black kettle, they will both lead the way through the English Breakfast. Earl grey is the evil temptation of the teas-maid, you must resist.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> I'm in the same boat JO. I don't know what created everything we are aware of. It's okay to admit you don't know.
> 
> The probability that a G*D created the universe for us and G*D is watching everything we do and judging all of our deeds.....that I simply place at the bottom of probability.
> 
> Besides, that's why we have Obama. He judges us all, he's making a list, and checking it twice.....wait I cross myth'd... sorry.


 *In other words, the best theory you can come up with. *


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## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> It isn't about convincing yourself. It's about educating the masses. Eliminating bad information and straight up propaganda. It's about "fighting" fair.
> 
> Religious fundamentalists, the type who want to push their fairy tale in the science classroom and the ones who claim we live in a "Christian nation" PUSH propaganda, they spend millions of dollars on things like The Discovery Institute and their little follow up "museum of natural history" that depicts dinosaurs walking along side man... Then they parade CHILDREN though there and tell em this is how it happened.. That's nothing short of BRAINWASHING. It's MIND CONTROL. I don't stand for that shit, especially if I see it online where I can actually actively say something about it, like I do on this forum. It's easy for other people with any sort of intelligence or honesty to see which side is right and which side is wrong. That's what people like Babs, fish, GC, Shroomer don't get. Their attempts are pointless, we've heard it ALL before. ALL of their arguments they've ever brought up are completely unoriginal, coppied right off talkorigins.org or answersingenesis.com... None of them realize they just parrot the same stupid shit over and over again. It's because of that, stuff like "yeah, well there's no transitional fossils..." and "we didn't come from _monkeys_"... Stuff they cover in elementary biology classes, in 10th grade.
> 
> ...


*If you want to make me a topic of your thread, you ought to invite me first. *


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## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

Positive she's right in her beliefs, unwilling to see anything from another perspective, she's also pretty rude actually too. Projects a lot, sits a top her horse way up in the sky wallowing in her own unreachable self righteousness... 
*LOL, care to drop a link from the thread that exhibits your "theory?" You love making an ass of yourself, don't you?*


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## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

Exodus: movement of jah people! oh-oh-oh, yea-eah!
.......
Men and people will fight ya down (tell me why!)
When ya see jah light. (ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!)
Let me tell you if youre not wrong; (then, why? )
Everything is all right.
So we gonna walk - all right! - through de roads of creation:
We the generation (tell me why!)
(trod through great tribulation) trod through great tribulation.

Exodus, all right! movement of jah people!
Oh, yeah! o-oo, yeah! all right!
Exodus: movement of jah people! oh, yeah!

Yeah-yeah-yeah, well!
Uh! open your eyes and look within:
Are you satisfied (with the life youre living)? uh!
We know where were going, uh!
We know where were from.
Were leaving babylon,
Were going to our father land.

2, 3, 4: exodus: movement of jah people! oh, yeah!
(movement of jah people!) send us another brother moses!
(movement of jah people!) from across the red sea!
(movement of jah people!) send us another brother moses!
(movement of jah people!) from across the red sea!
Movement of jah people!

Exodus, all right! oo-oo-ooh! oo-ooh!
Movement of jah people! oh, yeah!
Exodus!
Exodus! all right!
Exodus! now, now, now, now!
Exodus!
Exodus! oh, yea-ea-ea-ea-ea-ea-eah!
Exodus!
Exodus! all right!
Exodus! uh-uh-uh-uh!

Move! move! move! move! move! move!

Open your eyes and look within:
Are you satisfied with the life youre living? 
We know where were going;
We know where were from.
Were leaving babylon, yall!
Were going to our fathers land.

Exodus, all right! movement of jah people!
Exodus: movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!

Move! move! move! move! move! move! move!

Jah come to break downpression,
Rule equality,
Wipe away transgression,
Set the captives free.

Exodus, all right, all right!
Movement of jah people! oh, yeah!
Exodus: movement of jah people! oh, now, now, now, now!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!

Move! move! move! move! move! move! uh-uh-uh-uh!
Move(ment of jah people)!
Move(ment of jah people)!
Move(ment of jah people)!
Move(ment of jah people)! movement of jah people!
Move(ment of jah people)!
Move(ment of jah people)!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!
Movement of jah people!


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 18, 2009)

nice quadruple post...

My theory is based on logic and probability.... urs is BLIND faith in something so convoluted and utterly lacking in logic, it pales by comparison.

But you keep swinging away.... it's amusing.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 18, 2009)

Iron Lion Zion said:


> You have an issue with religion, not God. The two are not one in the same, as you are assuming.


Of course I don't. God is imaginary.
Now, if God was actually real, and was as described in the bible, I'd have a problem with God too.

Because the Abrahamic god is a vile piece of shit.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> nice quadruple post...
> 
> My theory is based on logic and probability.... urs is BLIND faith in something so convoluted and utterly lacking in logic, it pales by comparison.
> 
> But you keep swinging away.... it's amusing.


 Yes, very amusing. Stuck on the man. 
And the logic just keeps pouring in abundance.


----------



## PadawanBater (Oct 18, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Of course I don't. God is imaginary.
> Now, if God was actually real, and was as described in the bible, I'd have a problem with God too.
> 
> Because the Abrahamic god is a vile piece of shit.


 
Do you have any insight into why these people can't understand that? 

We keep saying it over and over, we don't believe in God, we can't hate somethng we don't believe in, it's illogical to say we "hate" God... 

What, they don't believe us? They think we're lying to them about our belief? We actually do believe in him but we just don't like all his rules and we'd like to live our life as we see fit? 

The fundie train of logic is such a wild ride!


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Do you have any insight into why these people can't understand that?
> 
> We keep saying it over and over, we don't believe in God, we can't hate somethng we don't believe in, it's illogical to say we "hate" God...
> 
> ...


 *So, you don't believe in God, and we don't hate you for not believing.*
*No one gets to live their lives with no rules. I don't care who you are or what your beliefs.*
*If we all live our life individually as we see fit and expect no rules to be enforced, what a WONDERFUL and peaceful world we would live in......according to your logic.*


----------



## litteringand... (Oct 18, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *So, you don't believe in God, and we don't hate you for not believing.*
> *No one gets to live their lives with no rules. I don't care who you are or what your beliefs.*
> *If we all live our life individually as we see fit and expect no rules to be enforced, what a WONDERFUL and peaceful world we would live in......according to your logic.*


hmmm interesting point even though you are being sarcastic maybe we should try it cause after all can the world be less peaceful that way than it is now? Can you even defend that people in the middle east fighting over what god is right and who should have got to stay in the tent is good? All for religion all for naught people die every day atheism however is as harmless as weed no one has ever died in it's name. Only people killing and arresting atheist for their beliefs. If you choose to believe in god that's great good for you. Don't come here and tell us our way of life is wrong or hurts anyone else if you were a true follower you would know to let your god do the judging. That was a nice cartoon too but has an atheist ever come to your door? ever passed you a stupid pass along card? Ever even wanted to discuss your mind numbingly stupid beliefs with you? I got out of my way to avoid talking about religion to people like you because, I get better responses from my kitchen table. 
So bury your head call us all communist because another atheist was a communist before i was born like greencross does show us your awesome rationality.


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## PadawanBater (Oct 18, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *So, you don't believe in God, and we don't hate you for not believing.*
> *No one gets to live their lives with no rules. I don't care who you are or what your beliefs.*
> *If we all live our life individually as we see fit and expect no rules to be enforced, what a WONDERFUL and peaceful world we would live in......according to your logic.*


"No one gets to live their lives with no rules." - Wow! That really does sound like something you'd hear a tyranical dictator say. Point where I said "NO RULES". I said "MY RULES".

The thing is, Babs, what you see as a "rule" I see as simply common sense. I don't need a "rule" or a "law" in society to tell me what to do and what not to do. If we had no murder law, do you think I'd be out there every day, just murdering people because there's nothing in society that tells me not to? 

Wtf? Hopefully now you can see why people like me think people like you are such terrible people. Let me lay it all out for you...

-you claim your own belief system is superior to all others, without even following it yourself

-you show your true colors every time you make such stupid comments, you need someone to tell you what is right and wrong, you are incapable of figuring such things out for yourself. There is a day when we all need to grow up little girl, and make our own decisions and be held accountable for our OWN actions.

-you admit that if there were no laws, you would not be a moral person, which is why you can't imagine a peaceful world without them

-to top it all off, every single post you make is either taking something completely out of context, like you did with my last post, where I wasn't advocating any such thing as a lawless society, just that people should live by their own "rules", while still abiding by the "laws" of established society (most of them anyway), lying about established facts, projecting and making claims without ever producing anything to back it up, claiming moral superiority when you lack the knowledge needed to understand what the very word "moral" even means, or just virtual circle jerking yourself with your own little comments you think pass off for irony or witt... two more things you don't understand...


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## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

litteringand... said:


> hmmm interesting point even though you are being sarcastic maybe we should try it cause after all can the world be less peaceful that way than it is now? Can you even defend that people in the middle east fighting over what god is right and who should have got to stay in the tent is good? All for religion all for naught people die every day atheism however is as harmless as weed no one has ever died in it's name. Only people killing and arresting atheist for their beliefs. If you choose to believe in god that's great good for you. Don't come here and tell us our way of life is wrong or hurts anyone else if you were a true follower you would know to let your god do the judging. That was a nice cartoon too but has an atheist ever come to your door? ever passed you a stupid pass along card? Ever even wanted to discuss your mind numbingly stupid beliefs with you? I got out of my way to avoid talking about religion to people like you because, I get better responses from my kitchen table.
> So bury your head call us all communist because another atheist was a communist before i was born like greencross does show us your awesome rationality.


* I was going to respond to this before seeing that you accuse me of calling you a communist. There's obviously no need for further discussion.*
*Jumping straight to lies as a stance to take against me for logic never goes anywhere.*

Ever even wanted to discuss your mind numbingly stupid beliefs with you? 
*You are kidding, right? HAHAHAHAHA*
*I won't be breaking any more of this apart today, LOL. It's a BOOK!!!*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 18, 2009)

Babs has given up using the Bible.... some progress is being made/....


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## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> "No one gets to live their lives with no rules." - Wow! That really does sound like something you'd hear a tyranical dictator say. Point where I said "NO RULES". I said "MY RULES".
> 
> The thing is, Babs, what you see as a "rule" I see as simply common sense. I don't need a "rule" or a "law" in society to tell me what to do and what not to do. If we had no murder law, do you think I'd be out there every day, just murdering people because there's nothing in society that tells me not to?
> 
> ...


 *Didn't need to read the rest of yours either.*
*Why is something so simple always made to be so complex with you?*
*Rules, LOL.*
*Rules of the ten commandments are just unreasonable to the point of making it your life to mock the Bible.*
*So, when I feel there is moral merrit to kill my neighbor because they are annoying the shit out of me or otherwise making my life hell, it should be permitted.*
*Breaking down the obvious gets old. *


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## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Babs has given up using the Bible.... some progress is being made/....


 *Nah CJ, I'm the type to shove it down your throat!! LOOL, but you ARE making progress. *


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## Mauihund (Oct 18, 2009)

litteringand... said:


> I can see how you would deem that cowardly because in religion that's all that exists is blanket statements like *all atheists are stupid assholes*.


And atheism is a religion, too. You are agreeing with me about that?


Get it straight. 

I said atheist are narcissistic cowards. Say it with me..... narcissistic cowards. That's just an observation and I've tried to explain my thoughts. If I said you were a bunch of shit packing fools, that may also be an observation, but mostly it would be just my sentiment.

*It is a religion established to destroy everyone's belief in spiritual matters. That's it.* Add all the endless words and arguments you want. If the entire world suddenly stopped believing in the spiritual, you all would be happy as clams.

I don't argue for the cause of religion. I don't care about religion. I think that any religion which holds they are the superior mind, and all humanity from all history is wrong except themselves deserves to be exposed for the narcissistic system of belief it is. You agree. Got to hate them christians, right?

If you can't be sure of anything, you sure sound sure God doesn't exist. There it is again. Act one way, claim the opposite. 

You are sure God DOESN'T exist, but you say no one can be sure either way. I think arguing for you atheist is like jacking off on a public forum. Feeeeeeels so good! But your seed is just spilled in the sink.

If you and God were a young couple arguing as much as you argue with him, I'd say just get married already. *Get a room!*


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## PadawanBater (Oct 18, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> And atheism is a religion, too. You are agreeing with me about that?
> 
> 
> Get it straight.
> ...


 
I do not know if God exists. 

I've never, not once, not ever said "God does not exist". 

-seriously, what do you not understand about that? 

It's a seven word sentence... nothing could be more simple. (except maybe Babs)


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## morgentaler (Oct 18, 2009)

"God" and "god" are two different things.

"God" the pronoun is the Christian god. Most just don't call it by it's own name, probably because of the belief from the outset that their god is the only one worth believing in.

"god" is any deity.

We can be as sure one can possibly sure of anything that "God" does not exist, as there is no evidence for it. The irony is that in dismissing all other gods the Abrahamic religions devalue their own god. For if the gods with just as much proof of existence are false, what makes the Abrahamic god true?

Nothing.


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## Mauihund (Oct 18, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> I want a refund on all the property taxes I have paid which have subsidized houses of organized religion; which do not pay property taxes.
> 
> Further, I wish an income tax refund on all taxes paid, in turn, which subsidized houses of worship; which are classified as non-profits.


The world does not revolve around you. I could just picture you on the ground throwing a tantrum as you said this. 

"I wan't! I wan't! I wan't! What about me! I'm such a victim! *They* have to change thier beliefs first before I can't enjoy my life!" (That's really the point, isn't it)



Johnnyorganic said:


> Are you *still in the dark* as to why I obsess? It's because blind, dogmatic, bible-thumpers such as *yourself *have had a *free reign* in this culture of ours for *far too long*.


No one's ever called me a bible thumper before. You make me smile. 



Johnnyorganic said:


> You're losing your stranglehold on society and all you can do is rant.


Oh, no! You found me out! 

I'm not ranting. I just have no intention of letting a bunch of evolved monkeys tell me how to think and believe. Keep your religion and your beliefs to your self.



Johnnyorganic said:


> Carry on... for we will carry the day.


"We are the champions, my friend! And we'll keep on fighting, till the end!" Come on, join me in singing. 

That was a powerful rally cry. When the smoke clears at the end of the day, atheists will stand proud and declare to the world "I told you so." Real honorable. 





Johnnyorganic said:


> One more thing, kindly remove your fucking *Ten Commandments* monument from the grounds of my *state capitol* because it ain't Constitutional.



Agreed. But, it's not my ten commandments. It's God's. What have I said that would make you believe it was mine?


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 18, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> The world does not revolve around you. I could just picture you on the ground throwing a tantrum as you said this.
> 
> "I wan't! I wan't! I wan't! What about me! I'm such a victim! *They* have to change thier beliefs first before I can't enjoy my life!" (That's really the point, isn't it)


I never said any of that. Your assumption. Nothing more.

It does not change the fact that in the U.S., religion is subsidized by non-believers who have *no choice* but to comply. I find that offensive.


Mauihund said:


> No one's ever called me a bible thumper before. You make me smile.


The alternatives were *much* worse, but I edited myself.



Mauihund said:


> Oh, no! You found me out!
> 
> I'm not ranting. I just have no intention of letting a bunch of evolved monkeys tell me how to think and believe.


A rose by any other name....

Now who is throwing the tantrum?

Exactly *who* is trying to tell you how to think and what to believe? Specific examples please.


Mauihund said:


> Keep your religion and your beliefs to your self.


My *religion*. LOL!

Now you are making me smile.


Mauihund said:


> "We are the champions, my friend! And we'll keep on fighting, till the end!" Come on, join me in singing.
> 
> That was a powerful rally cry. When the smoke clears at the end of the day, atheists will stand proud and declare to the world "I told you so."


What a lovely singing voice you have.

You said it, not me.  

I would not prefer that and it would never happen anyway. I would much prefer a world where we all co-exist in harmony.


Mauihund said:


> Real honorable.


Damn straight. The 1st Amendment guarantees not *just* the freedom of religion, but the freedom *from* religion.


Mauihund said:


> Agreed. But, it's not my ten commandments. It's God's. What have I said that would make you believe it was mine?


Merely a deduction. If I was incorrect, *mea culpa*.


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## litteringand... (Oct 18, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> And atheism is a religion, too. You are agreeing with me about that?
> 
> 
> Get it straight.
> ...


ok buddy here it is:
re&#8901;li&#8901;gion&#8194;&#8194;[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.	a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.	a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.	the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.	the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.	the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.	something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.	religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8.	Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
Idiom
9.	get religion, Informal.
a.	to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b.	to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

there you go if you think any of that has to do with my beliefs than you are as dense of a person than I have ever met. Also if I say I don't think there is a god, but I don't know for sure because no one can right now how is that contradictory? that would be the same as you saying I believe but wish I could prove it. For the last damned time Atheism is not a religion you moron, you see the definition of it up there? none of it applies. What are you going to say the people at dictionary.com have a conspiracy against religion too? We don't recruit We don't really gather at least I don't I just believe differently than most end of story I don't worship the god of there being no god, I don't pay tithe. or build temples to my non existant god. I don't worship anything get that dude? NOTHING! I believe I need to live my life the best I can because I want to not because someone else tells me I should it is common sense. So that's right i don't believe and until I am given a solid shred of proof to the contrary it isn't even open for discussion. So you believe what you want to believe and I will just live my life, but don't come around telling me the way I think is a religion just because you can't wrap your small mind around life without a religion.


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## litteringand... (Oct 18, 2009)

by the way read in there were I said Green cross said that LOL you are so smart I can tell you were intelligently designed.


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## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> I do not know if God exists.
> 
> I've never, not once, not ever said "God does not exist".
> 
> ...


*LOL, post your link. We'll let others decide who is simple in mind and intellect.*
*May all your fellow atheists join the force, hahahaha.*
*Don't forget to look out for those SCARY belivers in the word of Christ!!!!*


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## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> "No one gets to live their lives with no rules." - Wow! That really does sound like something you'd hear a tyranical dictator say. Point where I said "NO RULES". I said "MY RULES".
> 
> The thing is, Babs, what you see as a "rule" I see as simply common sense. I don't need a "rule" or a "law" in society to tell me what to do and what not to do. If we had no murder law, do you think I'd be out there every day, just murdering people because there's nothing in society that tells me not to?
> 
> ...


-you show your true colors every time you make such stupid comments, you need someone to tell you what is right and wrong, you are incapable of figuring such things out for yourself. There is a day when we all need to grow up little girl, and make our own decisions and be held accountable for our OWN actions.

*How does everyone get to make their own rules and still no one is accountable genius?*
*I really don't need someone to tell me the difference between right and wrong.*
*You on the otherhand are a completely different case to be considered. *
*You're the kind of person who lets go with a NOT guilty verdict because a shrunken glove doesn't fit.*
*...and cry RACIST as an added defense.*


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 18, 2009)

Man needs God to survive!!!!


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## Babs34 (Oct 18, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> Man needs God to survive!!!!


 *Well Sunshine, they are positive they don't. They EVEN have PROOF...just ask them.*
*Our technology according to them is going to keep us from further destroying this world.*
*But they WILL find out ALL the answers in the knick of time, LOL.*


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 18, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Well Sunshine, they are positive they don't. They EVEN have PROOF...just ask them.*
> *Our technology according to them is going to keep us from further destroying this world.*
> *But they WILL find out ALL the answers in the knick of time, LOL.*


I don't think they have proof. They think science will prove God doesn't exisit, but I tell you the truth it will only prove the opposite. I don't understand why people haven't figured it out. Believing in God isn't just about believing in God, but it is a way of *living*!


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 18, 2009)

If everyone on this earth believed in God we would all be united as one.


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## morgentaler (Oct 18, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> If everyone on this earth believed in God we would all be united as one.


That's true enough.
And the clergy would live as kings in their palaces.
And there would be daily executions in each city to eliminate those who stood in the way of their desires.
And the people would be glad. And there would be much rejoicing.
For the ones still alive.


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 18, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> That's true enough.
> And the clergy would live as kings in their palaces.
> And there would be daily executions in each city to eliminate those who stood in the way of their desires.
> And the people would be glad. And there would be much rejoicing.
> For the ones still alive.


I believe in God, but I AM not part of any religion. If people really believed in God there would be no killing.


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## MexicanWarlord420 (Oct 18, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> I believe in God, but I AM not part of any religion. If people really believed in God there would be no killing.


Haha. After all the killing that's been done in the name of god and the baby jesus?

Unless your argument only people who REALLY believe in god huh? What about when God tells you to kill your family or to kill infidels?


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 18, 2009)

MexicanWarlord420 said:


> Haha. After all the killing that's been done in the name of god and the baby jesus?
> 
> Unless your argument only people who REALLY believe in god huh? What about when God tells you to kill your family or to kill infidels?


As I said before believing in God is not just about believing, it is also a way of living.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 19, 2009)

We've seen what happens when the church gets full control.... it was called the Spanish Inquisition. They were simply and COMPLETELY taking the Bible at its word..... one could argue that they were TRUE Christians.


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## Babs34 (Oct 19, 2009)

*.....more easily, one could argue that you are determined to live in the past to "prove" your point.*
*The latter would be the correct, FACTUAL version.*
*THE END.*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 19, 2009)

I merely point out the past of the church.... ur church. 

The book told them to... ur book.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 19, 2009)

CJ making friends?


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## Babs34 (Oct 19, 2009)

*You don't ever merely point out any single thing CJ.....going in circles, that's your niche.*
*"ur" book, "ur" church.*
*I've stated I believe in the good words of Christ. I don't even attend church. "So""""""""......"ur" LOGIC just keeps failing you.*
*You don't have eyes or ears in which to see or hear. You, my friend, are blind.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 19, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> CJ making friends?


* He could if he'd stop making everything about him. *


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## robert 14617 (Oct 19, 2009)

the last statement was about someone else and a book


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## Babs34 (Oct 19, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> I merely point out the past of the church.... ur church.
> 
> The book told them to... ur book.


 *and for the last time, Christ NEVER motivated killing in His name.*


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## robert 14617 (Oct 19, 2009)

http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/crusades.stm his right hand dude shure wanted to do lots of killing


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## CrackerJax (Oct 19, 2009)

Heck, Jesus never said a word. We have no idea how he felt, or if he existed. He's a historical anomaly. 

The Bible is the only source.... the Spanish Inquisition was following the Bible.


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## morgentaler (Oct 19, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *.....more easily, one could argue that you are determined to live in the past to "prove" your point.*
> *The latter would be the correct, FACTUAL version.*
> *THE END.*


Ah, so using a 2000 year old book that condones, even promotes, slavery and genocide, the rape of women and treating them as chattel, isn't living in the past?

The biblical god is the kind of fiend that would invent spider mites. ARGH!


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## Babs34 (Oct 19, 2009)

*damn those spider mites to hellllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
*seriously.*


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## litteringand... (Oct 19, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> Man needs God to survive!!!!


Which god are you talking about? after all 1 in 4 people in the world are muslim. There are many different belief systems and interpretations of whom god is? So seems like since you don't even go to church you subscribe to one major religion can we agree on that? I still think it is funny you christians must come to this thread and try and convince and others that you believe what is right. Then your contention is that man needs god to survive? LOL how could you possibly prove such an absurd statement? I bet you believe every time a cell divides it is gods hand lol unreal. Hey CJ a quadruple poster is calling you self involved lol. HAHA babs determined to "prove" his point in case you don't know how science works that usually the desired effect at the end of your research. Maybe our kids can go to school and say i don't have to show my experimentation logs or prove that hypothesis is correct god said it is imagine how far western medicine would have come with that logic. Example: This man has terminal cancer stage 4 lets anoint his head with oil and say a prayer chemo is for the secular. astonishing the way you think babs Every time you post and people like you that are not only blind faithfuls but uninformed to your own beliefs. you drive more and more people away from believing. Now how is jesus gonna afford his giant churches if you scare away that much tithing.


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## Babs34 (Oct 19, 2009)

Hey CJ a quadruple poster is calling you self involved lol. HAHA babs determined to "prove" his point in case you don't know how science works that usually the desired effect at the end of your research.

*LOL, I noticed that......cj "noting" my quadruple post. "Oh the shame"........what is the shame it if I may ask? Did I get more RIU points for doing so? If I did, feel free to take them away. I don't post to earn points.*
*And I sho as hell don't speak endlessly to idiots looking for a fight. :WINK:*


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## Babs34 (Oct 19, 2009)

*...SUCH intelligent people placing themsevles above me on IQ level......"yet" don't know meaning of "babs".......HAHAHA.*
*I'm not going to brag about my IQ at this point....PSYCH!!!*


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## Babs34 (Oct 19, 2009)

10-07-2009, 11:58 AM 
litteringand... 
Able To Roll A Joint
*Able to roll a joint*





*Join Date: Sep 2009*​
*Posts: 54 *
*




*​
*






















*​



permalink
Quote:
Originally Posted by *morgentaler*  
_Being called godless certainly isn't an insult to us atheists._

_And communism works for some people. Like most governments it can be horribly corrupted, but for small population it can work quite well._

_I like the concept of rational anarchy myself, but I know that it's not something that could be realistically put to practice. But the concept is admirable._

_If we're godless communists, does that make you a religious fascist?_

im proud to be a godless heathen! capitalism is just as corrupted all it takes is money and lobbyist just like now. by the time a bill passes through all the greedy fucks it's a watered down hey we tried half ass peice of toilet paper. much like the healthcare bill.
*And you're concerned about how many times I post? I have something to say, I post....sue me.*
*If you can speak like that which you wipe yourself with, don't complain if I speak at all.*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 19, 2009)

Babs.... I can see now that when you first started posting, you must have been restraining urself greatly. having lost in the circle of logic and ideas, u've now gone to crazy mode. 

Same results however.....


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## Babs34 (Oct 19, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Babs.... I can see now that when you first started posting, you must have been restraining urself greatly. having lost in the circle of logic and ideas, u've now gone to crazy mode.
> 
> Same results however.....


 *LOL, HAHAHAHAHA........you are just BEGGING for my attention, aren't ya?*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 19, 2009)

Ur so astute.


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## morgentaler (Oct 19, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> I don't think they have proof. They think science will prove God doesn't exisit, but I tell you the truth it will only prove the opposite. I don't understand why people haven't figured it out. Believing in God isn't just about believing in God, but it is a way of *living*!


You're a little confused. Science doesn't need to prove God doesn't exist.
You need to prove that he does.

Otherwise it's just another scheme for collecting money and pliable followers.


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## cph (Oct 19, 2009)




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## CrackerJax (Oct 19, 2009)




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## morgentaler (Oct 19, 2009)

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/091019/entertainment/portugal_literature_religion

*Nobel winner slams Bible as 'handbook of bad morals' *

LISBON (AFP) - A row broke out in Portugal on Monday after a Nobel Prize-winning author denounced the Bible as a "handbook of bad morals". [SIZE=-2][/SIZE]









Speaking at the launch of his new book "Cain", Jose Saramago, who won the 1998 Nobel Prize for Literature, said society would probably be better off without the Bible.
Roman Catholic Church leaders accused the 86-year-old of a publicity stunt.
The book is an ironic retelling of the Biblical story of Cain, Adam and Eve's son who killed his younger brother Abel.
At the launch event in the northern Portuguese town of Penafiel on Sunday, Saramago said he did not think the book would offend Catholics "because they do not read the Bible".
"The Bible is a manual of bad morals (which) has a powerful influence on our culture and even our way of life. Without the Bible, we would be different, and probably better people," he was quoted as saying by the news agency Lusa.
Saramago attacked "a cruel, jealous and unbearable God (who) exists only in our heads" and said he did not think his book would cause problems for the Catholic Church "because Catholics do not read the Bible.
"It might offend Jews, but that doesn't really matter to me," he added.
Father Manuel Marujao, the spokesman for the Portuguese conference of bishops, said he thought the remarks were a publicity stunt.
"A writer of Jose Saramago's standing can criticise, (but) insults do no-one any good, particularly a Nobel Prize winner," the priest said.
Rabbi Elieze Martino, spokesman for the Jewish community in Lisbon, said the Jewish world would not be shocked by the writings of Saramago or anyone else.
"Saramago does not know the Bible," the rabbi said, "he has only superficial understanding of it."
The author caused a scandal in Portugal in 1992 with "The Gospel According to Jesus Christ."
The book depicted Jesus losing his virginity to Mary Magdalene and being used by God to control the world.
Saramago quit Portugal at the time and moved to Lanzarote, in the Spanish Canary Islands.


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## morgentaler (Oct 19, 2009)

Weird that Darwin is in the Atheism poster, since he was devoutly religious. I guess he's not wanted in that camp any more, and we get to keep him


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## cph (Oct 19, 2009)

Not thats of any relevance... but I share a birthday with both of the men in the middle of that poster.


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 19, 2009)

I tell you the truth many people are very confused on what God is. It is a state of being, it is a way to live. God is found in people. People are the ones that choose the path to suffering, we can also choose the path to happiness. God leads people to true happiness. I do not need to prove God exists, when I already know He exists in myself. Before you judge me judge yourself. Look and see how your actions effect other people. Actually think about it. Believing in God is a state of consciousness. When I say man needs God to survive I mean man as a whole. Look at the world. Look how people act. Man certainty cannot survive the direction he is headed. We were given intelligence, we were given thought. We can choose to make the right choices. For thousands of years people have been killing people. No one wants to die. So why would anyone kill another person? They don't truly understand how valuable life is. All people have is this one life. I only have one life and you only have one life. We only get one chance. We are all flesh and blood. If people truly valued and cared about their life they would stop doing the same things that lead them to suffering and stop causing suffering on other people. If we all believe in God we will be united as one. Unfortunately many people do not really believe in God. Instead of putting God as number one in their life, they value other things such as money or a piece of stupid dirt that has been fought over for thousands of years. These things do not bring real happiness.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 19, 2009)

Well if G*D is inside all of us, there is no need for churches of any kind. We can ban all organized religions too. what's the point of all that if it's redundant?


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

cph said:


> Not thats of any relevance... but I share a birthday with both of the men in the middle of that poster.


* LOL, you guys seriously crack me up. Now atheists claim to fame is Darwin is religous? So, it MUST have relevance NOW, hehe.*
*Picking and choosing......all about convenience, sound familiar?*

*Not that there's any relevance, but the person who started this thread and is nowhere to be found bears my grandfather's name.*

*<<<playing theme song from Twilight Zone>>>>>>*
*HAHAHAHAHA, but it is true.*

*Braz, EXCELLENT videos. *


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## robert 14617 (Oct 20, 2009)

I've always been on the fence on this , I'd rather go atheist than be associated with babs, or people who have a mightier than thou attitude


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

Reminds me of a Dung Beetle Robert.... truly.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 20, 2009)

way too closed minded not willing to think outside there realm of reality


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

It isn't easy convincing ppl of a myth in a modern world.... desperation is evident.

As religion becomes more and more shoved aside for true personal responsibility... look for violence to break out from the ones who claim to be "tolerant".


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> I've always been on the fence on this , I'd rather go atheist than be associated with babs, or people who have a mightier than thou attitude


 *Yeah Robert, P is a very humble....meek person at heart.*
*It showed several times over.*


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## robert 14617 (Oct 20, 2009)

i have a problem , i require proof before i will blindly believe in anything ghost ufo's etc.....


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

same thing here.... where's the real proof? If you can't produce it, then keep ur delusions to urself.


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## morgentaler (Oct 20, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> * LOL, you guys seriously crack me up. Now atheists claim to fame is Darwin is religous? So, it MUST have relevance NOW, hehe.*
> *Picking and choosing......all about convenience, sound familiar?*


No, it's not our claim to fame. He shouldn't actually be in that poster. But, oddly enough, the creationists won't accept that he was religious, since they're convinced he was trying to "destroy" god.
He was very troubled by the fact all the evidence pointed to evolution, in conflict with what he'd been taught by the church.

Now on the other hand it's quite common for Christians to claim that the founding fathers of the US were all Christian but that's wrong too. And some atheists claim they were all atheist. But some were theist, some were deist, and some were Christian. But they all agreed that secular government was required to prevent the tyranny of the religious state.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

Charles Darwin's views on religion have been the subject of much interest. His work was pivotal in the development of evolution theory.

Charles Darwin had a non-conformist background, but attended a Church of England school. He studied Anglican theology with the aim of becoming a clergyman, before joining the Voyage of the Beagle. On return, he developed his theory of natural selection in full awareness that it conflicted with the teleological argument. Darwin deliberated about the Christian meaning of mortality and came to think that the religious instinct had evolved with society. With the death of his daughter Annie, Darwin lost all faith in a beneficent God and saw Christianity as futile. He continued to give support to the local church and help with parish work, but on Sundays would go for a walk while his family attended church. However, at the time of writing On the Origin of Species he remained a theist, convinced of the existence of God as a First Cause.


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## PadawanBater (Oct 20, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Yeah Robert, P is a very humble....meek person at heart.*
> *It showed several times over.*


 
It's odd how _other people_ can see reality quite well, you still seem to be missing most of it.

I don't start getting aggressive about anything till you show *extreme ignorance* on a subject.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 20, 2009)

anger going


Green Cross said:


> You are a godless communist, and that's fine, but why do you feel the need to peddle your propaganda here?


i would have to ask you the same question ,,why the name calling and angergoing back to the start of this thread i see the religious people get very angry in there posts


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## PadawanBater (Oct 20, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> anger going
> i would have to ask you the same question ,,why the name calling and angergoing back to the start of this thread i see the religious people get very angry in there posts


 
Thank you! All it takes is a quick read through the thread to see which side is of sound reason and logic and which side has a few holes in their ''theory''...


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

Know why the church resists having religion examined by science?

Paddy side swiped it a bit...

evolution is a theory.... and most ppl probably don't understand how strong a value the word theory actually carries in science.

What degree of strength would religion receive form actual evidence... 

One can instantly see why the church is adamant that faith cannot be examined.


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## Mauihund (Oct 20, 2009)

All atheists start out teaching themselves how to not believe in God. There is no way a child can grow up without being bombarded with religious information and individuals. We are all incultureated into a world that believes in the existence of some being that is greater then ourselves.

How hard is it to prove to yourself a negative?


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## PadawanBater (Oct 20, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> All atheists start out teaching themselves how to not believe in God. There is no way a child can grow up without being bombarded with religious information and individuals. We are all _INDOCTRINATED_ into a world that believes in the existence of some being that is greater then ourselves.
> 
> How hard is it to prove to yourself a negative?


 
There ya go buddy, fixed it for ya. 

*Everyone is born an atheist. *You do not know anything about religion until someone, usually your parents, tells you about it. "Tells you"... if only we could all be so fortunate... Sadly, most kids are actually told this stuff is the litteral truth, that there's a heaven and a hell, that it's not the end when you die, etc... and most of them believe it. Take a look around, most of those same kids grow up to become adults and _still _believe it. A lot of them simply don't question things as they mature. I know this because I have a lot of friends who are utterly shocked when we engage in conversation and it steers towards religion. I ask them questions they are incapable of answering, just like you guys are. 

85% of the world roughly is religious in one way or another, that means 1 out of 10 people are skeptical about their own personal beliefs. Then there's those correlations between intelligence levels and religion, university professors and relgion, scientists and religion, college students and religion... seems to me, and all the studies seem to agree, the smarter someone becomes, the less likely they are to hold a belief in God. *Why is that?* Can you guys answer that for me? Look around these boards, you see the same thing. People who make complete sentences for example, use correct grammar and spelling, punctuation... Those are the self proclaimed atheists. Take a look at the believers posts, misspellings, CAPS, incomplete sentences... what's that about? Maybe it's just me and my own personal observation... but I'm concluding that's not simply a coincidence either... This is highschool shit... I'm not saying everything you post MUST BE SPELLED CORRECTLY AND HAVE CORRECT GRAMMAR! no, not at all. I don't give a fuck about that honestly, that's just one more thing you inadvertently reveal about yourself.


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## Mauihund (Oct 20, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> You do not know anything about religion until someone, usually your parents, tells you about it. "Tells you"... if only we could all be so fortunate... Sadly, most kids are actually told this stuff is the litteral truth, that there's a heaven and a hell, that it's not the end when you die, etc... and most of them believe it. Take a look around, most of those same kids grow up to become adults and _still _believe it. A lot of them simply don't question things as they mature. 85% of the world roughly is religious in one way or another, that means 1 out of 10 people are skeptical about their own personal beliefs.



All this proves is that there is a very rich spiritual history of tradition that stems back to the beginning of time. Meaning, God created the heavens and the earth. Then he created humanity in his image. Most people believe this is true in one form or another. What ever percentages you toss out there, it all shows that those who do *not *believe in the presence of a greater being are the aberration. 

You can choose to believe that your ancestry tree originated from an ape. It's kind of a cool thought! I remember the evolution stories when I was a boy. Very interesting! But, they were just stories. Like Star Trek and Star Wars.







PadawanBater said:


> Then there's those correlations between intelligence levels and religion, university professors and relgion, scientists and religion, college students and religion... seems to me, and all the studies seem to agree,_ *the smarter someone becomes, the less likely they are to hold a belief in God.*_





Here we have evidence the studies were wrong.


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 20, 2009)

'Incultureated' is very cromulent.


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## morgentaler (Oct 20, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> You can choose to believe that your ancestry tree originated from an ape. It's kind of a cool thought! I remember the evolution stories when I was a boy. Very interesting! But, they were just stories. Like Star Trek and Star Wars.


Just like those math, geography, physics, and chemistry stories.

It must be awesome living in a world where everything is powered by magic and the supernatural.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 20, 2009)

Mauihund........ Ughghhhh...
You don't get content from me, just..my eyes...the bleeding..


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

I've got shirts older than that word JO.....


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## Mauihund (Oct 20, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> 'Incultureated' is very cromulent.



Cromulent is the quintessential example.  Do I win the decoder ring?


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## morgentaler (Oct 20, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> 'Incultureated' is very cromulent.


There. I embiggened it for you.


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 20, 2009)

I AM telling you the truth, God is freedom.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm already free


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## cbtwohundread (Oct 20, 2009)

live the life ya love.,.,.,love the life ya live


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

G*d is mental heroin....... after all the time spent on it...what a waste when you could have been contemplating the real mysteries of life instead of made up ones.


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## morgentaler (Oct 20, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> I AM telling you the truth, God is freedom.


Freedom from thought.
Freedom from responsibility.
Freedom from rationality.

Give me the shackles of sensibility, and I will hobble along a happy prisoner, seeing the world through rational eyes.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

It's strictly comfort thought.... nothing more. I prefer reality, even if it's served up cold and bloody.


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> It's strictly comfort thought.... nothing more. I prefer reality, even if it's served up cold and bloody.


The Lord is surely more than comfort thought.


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## Twiz420 (Oct 20, 2009)

"God" does not exist as a supernatural entity that created the cosmos and time itself. "God" was just like you and me but from another planet; possibly another universe. There where many of them that came to Earth as man kind was evolving to what we are now. Being as intelligent as they were to travel the cosmos, they altered our DNA to make the final product of what we are (thats why we cant find the missing link). Since they came from the sky and had all sorts of cool beans technological stuff we thought of them as gods.....(No I am not a Scientologist)

I find it funny that theres more evidence that can prove that this theory is correct then there is to prove the almighty "GOD" does exist. After reading this thread I also find it pretty humorous that all the people that believe in "God" thought that this was started as a deliberate and ignorant attack on their religious beliefs, and thusly started posting all sorts of arguments and started name calling. Just because most of the world believes in "God" doesn't make it true, and just because there are atheists in the world doesn't mean you need to attack them for posting their beliefs online. Go ahead and tear this post apart and call me ignorant, I know you want to. Did you ever stop and think that the original post was meant for other atheists to read and gain enlightenment from? No probably not, you saw it as a direct threat of someone trying to convert you to their way of thinking, I get it you're used to trying to convert others to believe what you do. So you think anyone expressing a different train of thought than you must be trying to convert you.


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 20, 2009)

I used to be an atheist, now I AM enlightened.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> The Lord is surely more than comfort thought.


Not really.... the only source which says it's true is the source which benefits from you believing it is true.

Comfort thought.... but hardly free comfort thought. $$$$$ ka-ching!!! Step right up!!


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## morgentaler (Oct 20, 2009)

Twiz420 said:


> ...There where many of them that came to Earth as man kind was evolving to what we are now. Being as intelligent as they were to travel the cosmos, they altered our DNA to make the final product of what we are (thats why we cant find the missing link). Since they came from the sky and had all sorts of cool beans technological stuff we thought of them as gods.....(No I am not a Scientologist)...


You have zero proof of any of this, and you expect to be taken any more seriously than the sky-god stories?

You should watch the "Discovering Ardi" documentary, which addresses the "Missing Link" issue. We continue to find fossils which take human evolution farther and farther back in time. Just because finding fossils is harder than finding change in your couch is no reason to suddenly fill in the blanks with gods or aliens.

Every week flyers are delivered to your home. If you don't see the kid delivering them, does that mean that Bigfoot has gotten into the marketing and distribution business?

There are transitional fossils for many branches of the evolutionary tree. We're simply searching for examples of proto-humans who were small in number, smart enough not to commonly be caught in the situations that made for good fossilization, and are situated in areas that are extremely inhospitable for research.


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## Twiz420 (Oct 20, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> I used to be an atheist, now I AM enlightened.


Good for you. Do you want a cookie? j/k j/k thats mean lol.
Of all the posts from believers yours where actually the most descent and not attacking of others beliefs. I can't say the same for the others who believe in "God".. I do know for a fact that you do not need to believe in god to have peace on earth. I do not believe in any form of god and I lead a very peaceful life. What needs to happen for a peaceful world is for people to stop telling each other what to believe. If you believe in "God", ancient aliens, Zeus, the almighty tea pot, or even Fonzie (if you pick Fonzie you chose correctly), thats great. Just let it bring peace to your life and don't let it intervene on other beliefs and ways of living. Only then can we live without war and ignorance.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 20, 2009)

Twiz420 said:


> "God" does not exist as a supernatural entity that created the cosmos and time itself. "God" was just like you and me but from another planet; possibly another universe. There where many of them that came to Earth as man kind was evolving to what we are now. Being as intelligent as they were to travel the cosmos, they altered our DNA to make the final product of what we are (thats why we cant find the missing link). Since they came from the sky and had all sorts of cool beans technological stuff we thought of them as gods.....(No I am not a Scientologist)
> 
> I find it funny that theres more evidence that can prove that this theory is correct then there is to prove the almighty "GOD" does exist. After reading this thread I also find it pretty humorous that all the people that believe in "God" thought that this was started as a deliberate and ignorant attack on their religious beliefs, and thusly started posting all sorts of arguments and started name calling. Just because most of the world believes in "God" doesn't make it true, and just because there are atheists in the world doesn't mean you need to attack them for posting their beliefs online. Go ahead and tear this post apart and call me ignorant, I know you want to. Did you ever stop and think that the original post was meant for other atheists to read and gain enlightenment from? No probably not, you saw it as a direct threat of someone trying to convert you to their way of thinking, I get it you're used to trying to convert others to believe what you do. So you think anyone expressing a different train of thought than you must be trying to convert you.


You don't get your post torn apart my friend, Just a nice big cyber hug. Daawwwwwwww~ 

I agree with you completely though, It also brings to mind a specific situation that was frequenting fark.com semi recently in the last few months. Its of an atheist advertisement calling to other atheists that it was okay and others like them were in the area. Lets just say, long story short, the religious types had a hay-day about it. This happens all the time and it pisses me off. Religions bash and bash and bash us. Our character, our views, our intellectuals and stances, yet when it's the other way around, not even that far; when we merely ask for concrete evidence or valid stance and backed up 'opinion' we have to have 'integral respect' for other peoples 'beliefs'. It's socially improper to question it, such a tender spot it is, quite the nice shield of ignorance they have going there. Just because we don't look at atheism as a belief doesn't mean you guys can bash us for agreeing with it based on the information gathered and evidence supporting. everywhere I look I'm advertised Jesus, allah and almost every other f&%king god as much as I am some nice converse shoes. You know the difference in that though? Religious to commercial advertising? one thing:

They do a damn good job in making me want those shoes. Why? they have evidence, research and history in making good fucking shoes. I believe in that advertisement, because of what they've shown and supported with there claims of quality. So, I go to the store and get me some physical shoes, and they sell some damn nice shoes let me tell you. All I get from the other is headache headache headache, and lets not talk about answers. You don't even ask questions; taboo, remember? But hey, it's cool because it's not advertised to me. Rather, to other religious types and those others interested. And here is my point,

Long story short, if you're religious and interested in atheistic stance then by all means, please join in. I'm interested in hearing your philosophical view points/questions and answers regarding religion and atheism, truly. If however, you are simply close minded and want to banter and yell, to prostrate yourselves before us in a tantrum like rage, professing all the glories to your god and damning us in our own 'ignorances' to your higher 'being' go some place else. We really don't care.


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## Twiz420 (Oct 20, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> You have zero proof of any of this, and you expect to be taken any more seriously than the sky-god stories?


 I don't believe the ancient alien theory personally. I just got really high and watched that show on History channel called "Ancient Aliens" and I gotta say there is a lot of artifacts that are still to this day unexplainable, and the show has some pretty descent theoretical answers.

I was posting the ancient alien theory sarcastically. I was trying to show how people will believe anything they're told when the truth hasn't been exactly found just yet. Just like with religion people only believe because of thousands of years of that being the only answer to "why are we here?"


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)




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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


>



Haha, I love it.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

If only......


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> It's odd how _other people_ can see reality quite well, you still seem to be missing most of it.
> 
> I don't start getting aggressive about anything till you show *extreme ignorance* on a subject.


 *You are an abrasive and compulsive liar...nothing more. *
*You live life to tear others apart for Christianity's PAST. You ask a question, and when someone DOES humbly answer, YOU ATTACK like a madman......and now you want to wear a halo--with the help of your atheist friends that attack without knowing what it is they even attack?*
*Don't talk to me about ignorance. You are the EPITOME of it.*
*You ask a question and then when someone answers, you ALREADY had your attack ready for display without reading.*
*NUMEROUS times throughout this and other threads you accused me of having PERSONAL beliefs that DID NOT even exist...I never even so much as alluded to a belief you accused me of. Get off your high horse.*
*You live to FIGHT and be obnoxious.*
*Lose the halo.*
*You didn't earn it....not for even a tenth of a second.*


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 20, 2009)

O-hi Babs, 
I'm giving out free digital hugs in case you didn't know. soooooo, you can *have* one. *Only* if you prrrrooommiiisee more *smiles* and no more of this arguing silly business. Okay?


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## Xeno420 (Oct 20, 2009)

The whole religion thing has to stop. Too many threads on beliefs... let's talk about getting high and growing some smoke instead.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 20, 2009)

Xeno420 said:


> The whole religion thing has to stop. Too many threads on beliefs... let's talk about getting high and growing some smoke instead.


Praise the holy space ghost, pastafarian moses unicorn ninja, Alfanzo I think we have a winner!


If there WAS a god, then he'd smoke Skunky hash.

Best of the best, better then Jack herer IMO.

I want to grow it soooo bad, fak!


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> O-hi Babs,
> I'm giving out free digital hugs in case you didn't know. soooooo, you can *have* one. *Only* if you prrrrooommiiisee more *smiles* and no more of this arguing silly business. Okay?


 *Speak to your buddies P and CJ......I'm all smiles so long as I'm not being treated the way I have been here.*

*You guys are going to be so bored when none of us believers show up for you to bash.*

*But hey.....you can always RUDELY crash their "beliefs" sight.....as is evidently done daily.*

*Gets lonely having these empty beliefs....I get it.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

Xeno420 said:


> The whole religion thing has to stop. Too many threads on beliefs... let's talk about getting high and growing some smoke instead.


 So,now someone sane drops by?
AGREED


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## morgentaler (Oct 20, 2009)

Twiz420 said:


> (if you pick Fonzie you chose correctly),



Ayyyyyyyyyyy-men.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 20, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Speak to your buddies P and CJ......I'm all smiles so long as I'm not being treated the way I have been here.[/B*


*

All I wanted to see was that you're all smiles! *


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> All I wanted to see was that you're all smiles!


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

*Awww. how sweet, P neg repped me......I'm utterly wounded now. *


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## PadawanBater (Oct 20, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Awww. how sweet, P neg repped me......I'm utterly wounded now. *


 
Talk about a blatant lie.  I am incapable of giving -rep.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 20, 2009)

Babs is either a liar or not very bright.... or both!


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Talk about a blatant lie.  I am incapable of giving -rep.


 *See below.....I took it back. Look, people need to grow up.*
*Just because you disagree or someone actually shows to have a point doesn't mean you play like you're in kindergarten.......good grief.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Babs is either a liar or not very bright.... or both!


 *Nope, you are a liar.....proof in the pudding....doesn't matter, like I said.....NEG REP AWAY.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 20, 2009)

*One word, just one word, FAITH......that made you just CRINGE.......you can't even be joked around with.*
*It's truly sad.*


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 20, 2009)

This thread is officially dead. I tried, didn't I? I guess my hugs weren't as effective as I would have liked them to be...

I'm going to go DJ myself to sleep *sniffles*


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 20, 2009)

Guys! I did something super! GET IN HERE!! You won't regret it, abandon ship baby, and onto my giant sea turtle of *happy happy* destruction!


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## Mauihund (Oct 21, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Nope, you are a liar.....proof in the pudding....*


*


I totally agree with you! Theres even a guy on here who says he is an ignoramus, but has enough information to conclude God doesn't exists. It's all a very slipery slope of self deceit. 

The heart of Atheism is destruction. They love death. Complete annihilation of all things spiritual. Very respectable.*


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 21, 2009)

I looooove death, it just gets me off. Quite hard actually. 

Why, I spend all my waking moments, much like every *other* atheist I'm sure, pondering the innate pleasures of carnage and self mutilation. 
It's what I live for, it's what we live for. What do you expect? We've renounced Jesus, our 'true' lord and savior and in such condemned our souls to damnation!
We turned our backs on the great one, and therein cast our souls to the undercarriage of the abyss. How can you possibly expect let alone fathom the minds of
these soulless obtuse cretins? Us tainted dark.

All that aside, my friend, Your ignorance honestly sickens me, disgusts me truly to my core, surprisingly with such little said. Yet, you said many out of little by that infantile 'reasoning' and fractal fortitude behind that which you *believe.* So, go hide behind your holy scriptures you minds child. You confused and ignorant one. You have no place amongst even the most bare bone intellectual, for your kind is that of ignorance and self deceit. moreso then practice, your kind of deceit is a way of life, a pattern in habit, unchanging be it from lack of notice or lack of caring. You aren't even of the kind that represents the true dogma you attempt at spouting. I've met wonderful christens, much more grand and elegant then yourself. Ones who although, I feel are truly living a lie, understand the inherent meaning to life and how it should be lived by the teachings true meanings by this 'lord and savior' you so love. If you can even call it love. I don't. One of my best and dearest friends is one of the most devout Christians I have ever met, the closest thing to Jesus and his teachings I have ever personally seen. Truly that greater then even say, a bishop, whom I have had a lucky enough chance to meet and talk with on several occasions. Via family ties. You do those whom practice truly and actually get this 'message' of your holy ghost no justice, I'm sure even *THEY* would be embarrassed of you. You're the kind that harps behind false words and misconceived stigma, ritual and superstition. You totally misunderstand the point of it all my friend, and because of this, ALL of this; your ignorance is stomach churning. Get with the program and grow up, or go home. You're the first person in quite a while who I have actually felt pity for. You're quite pathetic, you poor poor isolated creature. I cannot hate you, for to hate you would be to hate myself, and to harm myself. I love you, because I love myself and due to that I feel instead, sorrow for this supreme ignorance, you're living the real life 'fools play.' And, my friend. The last joke? It's on you.


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 21, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> I totally agree with you! Theres even a guy on here who says he is an ignoramus, but has enough information to conclude God doesn't exists. It's all a very slipery slope of self deceit.
> 
> The heart of Atheism is destruction. They love death. Complete annihilation of all things spiritual. Very respectable.


Not true. *You* said agnostic means ignoramus.


Mauihund said:


> Argue and debate the lack of God's existence, then state that you are ignorant of the matter (Agnostic means ignoramus).
> 
> If you were really ignorant, you would have no right to hold an opinion.
> 
> Which is it? Are you an ignoramus, or not?


To which I responded:


Johnnyorganic said:


> If *those* are my only two options, I'll take ignoramus.


FYI: Ignorant beats stupid any day of the week. Ignorance can be corrected. Stupid is just stupid.

By the way, you never answered *my* question: Between *sanctimonious blowhard* and *pompous narrow-minded fool*, which are *you*?


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## Mauihund (Oct 21, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Awww. how sweet, P neg repped me......I'm utterly wounded now. *



I feel your pain. JO neg repped me. Some folks are bent on hatred. They point to all there unbearable sufferings as evidence God is non-existent.


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## Mauihund (Oct 21, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> Not true. *You* said agnostic means ignoramus.


I know. It felt good.





Johnnyorganic said:


> FYI: * Ignorance can be corrected.*



Yeah! 


Prove it.





Johnnyorganic said:


> By the way, you never answered *my* question: Between *sanctimonious blowhard* and *pompous narrow-minded fool*, which are *you*?




Depends on how you want to interpret the data. No doubt you have a bias in your testing method?


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## Babs34 (Oct 21, 2009)

10-20-2009, 10:44 PM 
timsatx1 
420 TIME
*Stoner*






*Join Date: Feb 2009*​

*Posts: 614 *
*




*​

*
























*​ 



permalink
Gotohelljesusfreakwedontneedyourkindherethankyou 







__________________
My name is suicide. 

*I want above qoute under my name......says it all.*
*LOL. I have to agree with an atheist, shocking as it may be. Neg-rep is nothing more than those with small e-penises.*
*On that note, I counteract that neg-rep and likely ask openly to receive tenfold from the atheist force....for the very simple reason that I exist or dare to form any logical conclusion. *
*:::shrugging my shoulders:::: Thank God I have a life. *


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## robert 14617 (Oct 21, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> I feel your pain. JO neg repped me. Some folks are bent on hatred. They point to all there unbearable sufferings as evidence God is non-existent.


 I'm not suffering I'm enjoying life and thinking for myself no hate going on with me you should try it some time


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## morgentaler (Oct 21, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> The heart of Atheism is destruction. They love death. Complete annihilation of all things spiritual. Very respectable.


Yes, we love death so much we created this god, and called him Yahweh/Jehovah. And then we made him completely insane, so that he does things like create a perfect world where if you eat this one fruit, then you bring down disease and suffering and pain upon it. We did it as a parable to explain that if you ever question the rule of our atheist religion, you will be punished in our atheist hellfire.

We then sent the people out into the world alone, where their children mated with each other, brothers and sisters all. After a while they did some things that pissed off our Atheist God and he slaughtered the whole bunch except for one family again. He killed kittens, and bunnies, and unicorns, dinosaurs, and giant dragonflies, and all kinds of creatures for this perceived slight. And it was good.

Of course this family had to resort to inbreeding again (we love to include inbreeding in our religion. it keeps us close) to populate the earth.

Eventually there were enough descendants of this family that they were able to divide into tribes and then take slaves or wipe each other out. Our proud atheist god also made a bunch of proclamations that could get you killed at the drop of a hat, because he loved death so much.

Work on a weekend? Death!

Eat seafood? This one has a shell! Death!

Sex outside of marriage? Death! Oh, wait, wait, this one was a cleric. We can't kill him for that. Plus the girl was 12. It's totally okay for a priest to have sex with an 12 year old girl. It's like instant marriage! Now if he wasn't a cleric it would be different. He'd have to pay us a fee, and then we'd look the other way.

Oh look some more people moved into our holy atheist desert land and really want to hang around our holy pile of atheist rocks. Our atheist god say "Kill them all and leave none alive. Not even the kids or the pets."

Okay! Let's do this thing!

Shit, we've killed off most of our believers, and most of the outsiders hate us. Let's make our atheist god nicer. We'll make up some guy wandering around a hundred years ago doing great things, and meet here in Nicea where we'll edit together a bunch of random articles. We don't need eyewitness testimony or historical records. We'll just make shit up. We're athiests, we don't need evidence or rationality.

We'll also make sure the majority of our followers believe that our new and improved athiest god is a white guy from from the middle east. I know, it's hardly believeable, but we roll like that.

Onward and upward, new atheist religion!
Please send money.


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## Mauihund (Oct 21, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> I looooove death, it just gets me off. Quite hard actually.
> 
> Why, I spend all my waking moments, much like every other atheist I'm sure, pondering the innate pleasures of carnage and self mutilation. It's what I live for, it's what we live for. What do you expect? *We've renounced Jesus, our 'true' lord and savior* and in such condemned our souls to damnation!
> *We turned our backs on the great one*, and therein cast our souls to the undercarriage of the abyss. How can you possibly expect let alone fathom the minds of
> these soulless obtuse cretins? Us tainted dark.









DJBoxhouse said:


> You aren't even of the kind that represents the true dogma you attempt at spouting. I've met wonderful christens, much more grand and elegant then yourself. Ones who although, I feel are truly living a lie, understand the inherent meaning to life and how it should be lived by the teachings true meanings by this 'lord and savior' you so love. If you can even call it love. I don't.



You openly declare your contempt for all things spiritual and all those who believe, and now you are correcting me on how I exercise my faith. You really must know everything!


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## Brazko (Oct 21, 2009)

It's the attack of the Killa Negs , (and that wasn't reverse self Racism),

God Loves a Negga, and I'm just a Negga Too.., 

You people are Too Much,


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## Babs34 (Oct 21, 2009)

*LOL Braz, that's called having a personality. Don't dare do it here....so easily misconstrued as "illogical."*


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## Mauihund (Oct 21, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> I'm not suffering I'm enjoying life and thinking for myself no hate going on with me


Glad to hear it didn't apply to you. 


I was referring to the many words spoken by atheists about why God doesn't sexist. Their religious sufferings being the evidence.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 21, 2009)

I know nothing; a principle you will never be able to fully appreciate in the concept of wisdom, be it in yourself or others.


I openly express my 'contempt' If that's what we're calling it, not for the 'spiritual' but for you.
Any fraction of contempt I have is not for your 'spirituality' but rather, towards your ignorance.

I pity you, I do not look down on you from above, I look at you from far away, for yours is a mind that I choose to not bother understanding. You have given me ample comprehension as to how and why you think the things, believe the things and follow the things you do. For this, above ALL else, I pity you. 

So, shoo fly. You hold absolutely no grounds, as you have openly shown to us all. You hold no validity, no concept of any real rational or thought. You just spout garbage and expect everybody to follow. The garbage you spout is simply a fools rhetoric, spouted by a fool of a fool in a succession of fools who lacked ever more comprehension of the garbage then the next. An endless line of telephone game, never fully appreciating or grasping the message, merely spouting what was told from the last to the next. You're nothing more then a broken record with no answers.


Am I the only one who sees this fools irony? You are like a jester, A child with some string. Dancing a play for what he sees as an audience of fools. So he does his dance, his practiced dance. This rhetoric of motion, laughing all the while inside your locked room of 'fools', trying to bestow some great wisdom upon them. Yet in actuality it is just a self employed facade, a selection of manikin's and dolls crafted to keep you occupied inside a room you yourself have bothered to lock yourself away in. You sing on def ears, inside a room with nobody around, carrying a broken tongue and not the mind or wisdom to comprehend. The last laugh is on you my friend, like I said, because nobody is here to listen. We've moved on from your childish games. Abandoned your hall of idiocy that you jesters of discord have crafted for yourselves. There is just as much desire, there is just as much gained on your foolish words as speaking to a cast of trees. So, do us a favor, go speak to your trees. You fool of fools, You'd get more done truly so. 


Why can't you see?


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## Mauihund (Oct 21, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Yes, we love death so much we created this god, and called him Yahweh/Jehovah. And then we made him completely insane, so that he does things like create a perfect world where if you eat this one fruit, then you bring down disease and suffering and pain upon it. We did it as a parable to explain that if you ever question the rule of our atheist religion, you will be punished in our atheist hellfire.
> 
> We then sent the people out into the world alone, where their children mated with each other, brothers and sisters all. After a while they did some things that pissed off our Atheist God and he slaughtered the whole bunch except for one family again. He killed kittens, and bunnies, and unicorns, dinosaurs, and giant dragonflies, and all kinds of creatures for this perceived slight. And it was good.
> 
> ...




Thats very cynical. Who was it saying I should try not hating? I think you hate God and the people who believe.


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## PadawanBater (Oct 21, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Yes, we love death so much we created this god, and called him Yahweh/Jehovah. And then we made him completely insane, so that he does things like create a perfect world where if you eat this one fruit, then you bring down disease and suffering and pain upon it. We did it as a parable to explain that if you ever question the rule of our atheist religion, you will be punished in our atheist hellfire.
> 
> We then sent the people out into the world alone, where their children mated with each other, brothers and sisters all. After a while they did some things that pissed off our Atheist God and he slaughtered the whole bunch except for one family again. He killed kittens, and bunnies, and unicorns, dinosaurs, and giant dragonflies, and all kinds of creatures for this perceived slight. And it was good.
> 
> ...


 
Epic Pwnage.


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## Brazko (Oct 21, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Epic Pwnage.


Hey Paddy, I thought you had left to run errands or something., I was confused by your question, but I did answer it to the best of my ability, however, I was still a little confused by your intent and left a few questions of my own, plus a new one to if you agreed or not with GC Post that this was A Christian Nation?


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## PadawanBater (Oct 21, 2009)

Brazko said:


> Hey Paddy, I thought you had left to run errands or something., I was confused by your question, but I did answer it to the best of my ability, however, I was still a little confused by your intent and left a few questions of my own, plus a new one to if you agreed or not with GC Post that this was A Christian Nation?


Good guess, had to do some dishes really quick, I just updated that thread with a reply.


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 21, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> I feel your pain. *JO neg repped me*. Some folks are bent on hatred. They point to all there unbearable sufferings as evidence God is non-existent.









Hate.... LOL!


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2009)

It's not too late to prove to babs how wrong she was about my neg repping her...... just let me know... I have a fool proof way of showing you Babs.... even you will get it....

Or you can apologize like a mature person. You showed no maturity last night.

Let me know.....

Apologize or proof will be provided.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 21, 2009)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## Brazko (Oct 21, 2009)

(LMAO) ....++++rep (LmAO)

watch out Tho' - Maui is Coming For You..



Johnnyorganic said:


> Hate.... LOL!


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2009)

I'll give her till 6 to respond.... then I'll just assume she can't apologize for XXX reason, and I will simply prove I didn't neg rep her yesterday.

I'm always willing to help.....


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## morgentaler (Oct 21, 2009)

What's the big deal about neg rep anyway? If one or two people neg rep someone how exactly does it impact their life? Do they not get enough positive rep to balance it out?


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes, some ppl simply freak out over it....  tightly wound perhaps..... it's all shits and giggles here...


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 21, 2009)

It looks bad on them, other people may judge them based on the negative rep.

Lol, good. Reputation is a direct reflection of character, looks good on em. If they let it bug them, then let'em squirm.
Squids are awesome.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2009)

Well, I never have given a neg rep, but since babs insists upon getting a "teachable" lesson, I will oblige just this one time.

Probably the only time a neg rep carried proof of not getting a neg rep...


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## robert 14617 (Oct 21, 2009)

i have given two i regret both ,make sure its for the right reason


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2009)

She kind of insisted that I neg repped her after I said I didn't....multiple times. If my word isn't good enough for her, then I must give her the proof she desires.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 21, 2009)

the option is there for a reason ,


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## PadawanBater (Oct 21, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> She kind of insisted that I neg repped her after I said I didn't....multiple times. If my word isn't good enough for her, then I must give her the proof she desires.


 
lol I'm really interested in what this "proof" is. When are you going to post it?


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2009)

well, i'm just going to give her a real neg rep. Since I can't give anyone a rep +or- twice in 24 hrs.... it will provide the proof she so RUDELY demanded on multiple threads..... she was actually trolling after me last night with her nonsense.

As soon as I get back from the hounds walk.... I'll pop her, since she doesn't believe me.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 21, 2009)

Victory to the horde.


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## PadawanBater (Oct 21, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> well, i'm just going to give her a real neg rep. Since I can't give anyone a rep +or- twice in 24 hrs.... it will provide the proof she so RUDELY demanded on multiple threads..... she was actually trolling after me last night with her nonsense.
> 
> As soon as I get back from the hounds walk.... I'll pop her, since she doesn't believe me.


You're right, she wouldn't let it go. No matter how many times you said you didn't do it...

Justified imo.

Also, she seems to think her getting -rep is because some atheist is just out to get her, or just because someone doesn't like her beliefs or something... Could it be they -repped you because you posted something stupid, or because it was personally offensive...? It could be anything. Why jump to conclusions?

If I were going to -rep someone, it would be because their post is chalk full of stupidity or they refuse to believe fact after fact, or are blindly ignorant to something... there's been a few posts I've come across that are definitely -rep worthy, and they have nothing to do with your personal beliefs.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 21, 2009)

But they are out to get her, there was a memo sent out and everything Padawan. 
Didn't you read it?


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## morgentaler (Oct 21, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> Thats very cynical. Who was it saying I should try not hating? I think you hate God and the people who believe.


If you're so thick that you haven't realized that we don't hate something imaginary, you'll probably never get it.

If there was even the remotest possibility that that the Christian god existed, I would go to war against it.

But there is no possibility. None.

By itself the idea of the biblical God is preposterous, but then Christians themselves finish the deal by denying all other gods. Gods which are no less valid in any respect. Therefore if the other gods are false gods, all gods are false.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2009)

The Council of Jerusalem 50 AD. This is where it is decided to let gentiles become Christians (meaning they considered themselves to be Jewish). The reason for this is because they couldn't get any Jews to follow the early Christian doctrine. 
The Christian "fringe" sect realized if they couldn't convince somebody pretty quick...it would all slip away. 
Christianity has been compromising its core values for money and power practically from day one.

Then, as soon as Christianity through the fortune of being chosen by Constantine (he saw it as the perfect slave religion), as soon as the Christian religion linked up with a powerful empire, they turned back onto their brother and sister Jews with a vengeance. Nothing worse than a rejected sibling getting the upper hand. 
In one form or another the Christians have gone after the Jews ever since.

Such a sweet religion.


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## Mauihund (Oct 21, 2009)

Atheists are narcissistic cowards. It's the only belief system that defines themselves based on what they are not. Like angry teen agers, still rebelling against their parents.

They are god, so they believe they don't have a religion. They have their own conversion experiences, but they aren't a belief system. They have their own fellowship, but they aren't an organization. They have their own sacred writings (or Star Trek movies for you who can't read so good) but they have no faith. 

You are scared. I understand. Trying to stand up to God as a big show of your courage in the face of realizing your need for forgiveness. If you had the unfortunate experience of having a narcissistic coward attack and destroy your faith...... you will always be received back. His love for you won't go away. There is a God. And he loves you.

You know you can't accept spiritual advice from a bunch of monkeys who hate all things spiritual.


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## Mauihund (Oct 21, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> If you're so thick that you haven't realized that we don't hate something imaginary, you'll probably never get it.




You are deceived. You HAVE been fighting against God. 

It makes no difference weather you believe he exists or not. If you can't understand that, you'll figure it out later.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 21, 2009)

Forget this none sense guys, everybody GET IN HERE! Let's escape the idiocy.


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## Mauihund (Oct 21, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> Forget this none sense guys, everybody GET IN HERE! Let's escape the idiocy.



For a bunch of evolved....... people (I'm trying to be nice!) who think there is no religion, you all sure do spend a lot of time talking about religion.

What's up with that?


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 21, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> For a bunch of evolved....... people (I'm trying to be nice!) who think there is no religion, you all sure do spend a lot of time talking about religion.
> 
> What's up with that?


Nobody is disputing the existence of *religion*.

There is actual *proof* that religions exist.

We're making sport of the *imaginary friends*.


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## morgentaler (Oct 21, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> Atheists are narcissistic cowards. It's the only belief system that defines themselves based on what they are not. Like angry teen agers, still rebelling against their parents.


Yes, you are so right. Every child born is a coward, since every child is an atheist until indoctrinated.
80 percent of the Swiss are cowards because they don't love your vile god-thing.
You want to know what's cowardly? Living your life sucking up to something you can't possibly even be sure exists, in order to avoid punishment in a place that doesn't exist either.
And the fear of that imaginary place is so great that it's of paramount importance to get other people to believe in it to, starting from the moment they can understand the spoken word. Don't wait until they have the ability to speak for themselves. Feed it to them while they're young. Instill the word. Instill the fear. God's love is fear.



> They are god, so they believe they don't have a religion. They have their own conversion experiences, but they aren't a belief system. They have their own fellowship, but they aren't an organization. They have their own sacred writings (or Star Trek movies for you who can't read so good) but they have no faith.


I don't know any atheists that "converted" personally. Anyone I know who is an atheist just never bought into the crap. Obviously it's different in many parts of the US where it's forced on children from birth and they have to see their way through the veil of lies, but you see that as a flaw rather than a virtue.

You know what the difference is between Christianity and Star Trek? In a Star Trek movie the villain demands obedience, but in the end he is defeated. In Christianity they build him a temple and call him God.




> You are scared. I understand. Trying to stand up to God as a big show of your courage in the face of realizing your need for forgiveness. If you had the unfortunate experience of having a narcissistic coward attack and destroy your faith...... you will always be received back. His love for you won't go away. There is a God. And he loves you.


You know what scares me? The idea that you sick fucks get your hands on more children every year and poison them with nonsense before they even have a chance to question the world they live in. Turning bright futures into empty heads who serve a false morality.



> You know you can't accept spiritual advice from a bunch of monkeys who hate all things spiritual.


The funny thing is, a monkey sees the world as it is. So if someone wanted guidance in the world, they sure as hell would be better off with a handful of peanuts at the zoo exhibit than spending 5 minutes talking to you.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 21, 2009)

It's people who think the bible is the word of G8d which are the problem.... all the trouble starts with them...since the Bible is self contradicting and a piecemeal bunch of disconnected stories..... stories...not history.


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## morgentaler (Oct 21, 2009)

Weird. It wouldn't img link it despite the site allow hotlinking.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm framing that picture by the way Morgen.


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 22, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Weird. It wouldn't img link it despite the site allow hotlinking.


I embiggened it for you. One good turn deserves another.


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> You know what the difference is between Christianity and Star Trek? In a Star Trek movie the villain demands obedience, but in the end he is defeated. In Christianity they build him a temple and call him God.


Life is so beautiful in the movies. And in some movies, the princess is woken by a kiss! 




morgentaler said:


> You know what scares me? The idea that you *sick fucks* get your hands on more children every year and *poison them* with *nonsense *before they even have a chance to question the world they live in. Turning bright futures into *empty heads* who serve a *false morality*.
> 
> 
> > I believe it does scare you. How do you know it's just us sick fucks doing the indoctrination? You are spewing some smelly shit that sounds more like you were indoctrinated. Why can't other people enjoy having someone indoctrinate them, too?
> ...


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> I embiggened it for you. One good turn deserves another.




Funny! ...............


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## morgentaler (Oct 22, 2009)

I never said we were monkeys.

It's apparent that a monkey sees the world with more rationality than someone who worships invisible sky gods.

Of course some monkeys fling shit but, unlike religion, the stink of shit washes away.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

Animals(non human) in general are the only true realists.


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Animals(non human) in general are the only true realists.



Yes, the good old days. When a man could run free with his monkey in hand, and trust it will guide him into the reality of things. Where do you get this stuff?


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I never said we were monkeys.
> 
> It's apparent that a monkey sees the world with more rationality than someone who worships invisible sky gods.
> 
> Of course some monkeys fling shit but, unlike religion, the stink of shit washes away.



No, you didn't say you were monkeys, but you identify with them. It's a part of the "evolution" thing, right. I understand.

You can figure out what is apparent to a monkey, but you can't figure it out for a believing human. Your priorities are really fucked up.

And, granted, an actual monkey's shit will wash away. But I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by calling you "evolved". Cut yourself some slack. Do you really want your words to be just washed away?


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## PadawanBater (Oct 22, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> No, you didn't say you were monkeys, but you identify with them. It's a part of the "evolution" thing, right. I understand.
> 
> You can figure out what is apparent to a monkey, but you can't figure it out for a believing human. Your priorities are really fucked up.
> 
> And, granted, an actual monkey's shit will wash away. But I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by calling you "evolved". Cut yourself some slack. Do you really want your words to be just washed away?


 
You're not one of those fundies who denies they're an ape are you...?


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> You're not one of those fundies who denies they're an ape are you...?



Still trying to fit me into your narrow box of understanding, I see. Thats not very enlightened. 


i accept no labels. 



btw:
That profile pic is fitting.


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## PadawanBater (Oct 22, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> Still trying to fit me into your narrow box of understanding, I see. Thats not very enlightened.
> 
> 
> i accept no labels.
> ...


 
So what then, you're gonna do the typical "ashamed fundie" thing and deny you hold such positions? You accept that God exists, do you not? You accept that Jesus Christ is God, do you not? If not, then say you don't. Just don't be one of those guys who is too ashamed to admit what they actually believe because they know other people here in the real world will tear it to pieces. Those guys don't have any balls. At least have some balls when you defend your belief.

..about the avatar, you know what irony means, don't ya? 

I wear my badge of individuality *proudly* son.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

Religion isn't something which can be defended from straight on.

It's far too weak to stand up to real scrutiny. 

All sorts of twists and squirms must accompany it.


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> So what then, you're gonna do the typical "ashamed fundie" thing and deny you hold such positions? You accept that God exists, do you not? You accept that Jesus Christ is God, do you not? If not, then say you don't. Just don't be one of those guys who is too ashamed to admit what they actually believe because they know other people *here in the real world* will tear it to pieces. Those guys don't have any balls. At least have some balls when you defend your belief.


Bahahahaha! You said here in the real world. Thats funny.


This is all very confusing for me. First you want me to get Jesus' aproval for my posts, then you try to label me, now you are telling me how to be an acceptable fundie (what ever that means).


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## morgentaler (Oct 22, 2009)

It's easy to figure out what's apparent for you. You believe that something that there has never been any proof for is absolutely real.
You would rather look at the real world with blinders consisting of the pages of a book of 2000 year old fairy tales than accept that the stories you were brought up believing are false.
You obviously don't believe in evolution, despite the fact that all the major scientific disciplines support it. Not just biology.

Do you reject the theories of physics?
Is chemistry meaningless?
Do genetic codes lie?
Who is behind the conspiracy of geology?

If you value the word of this god so much, and have so little regard for the actual study of understanding the mechanisms of the universe, why not move to the holy land, get yourself a tent and a donkey, and spend the rest of your life wiping your ass with a handful of sand and counting down the days until Jesus floats back down from the sky?

If this was your first time showing that you don't understand evolution, then it could be attributed to mere ignorance, a lack of education in academic subjects. But its become apparent that, like so many fundamentalists, you wallow in the ignorance that religion cherishes, taking the lazy mans way of seeing the world through the supernatural.

Cling to your small gods if they give you comfort. Hold them close pray for them. Because all gods die. Even yours.



Mauihund said:


> No, you didn't say you were monkeys, but you identify with them. It's a part of the "evolution" thing, right. I understand.
> 
> You can figure out what is apparent to a monkey, but you can't figure it out for a believing human. Your priorities are really fucked up.
> 
> And, granted, an actual monkey's shit will wash away. But I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by calling you "evolved". Cut yourself some slack. Do you really want your words to be just washed away?


----------



## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Religion isn't something which can be defended from straight on.
> 
> It's far too weak to stand up to real scrutiny.
> 
> All sorts of twists and squirms must accompany it.




You know, it's considered plagiarism when you use someone else's words and don't give the reference? This isn't yours. You'd need a book for this kind of cogent thought.


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## morgentaler (Oct 22, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> You know, it's considered plagiarism when you use someone else's words and don't give the reference? This isn't yours. You'd need a book for this kind of cogent thought.


Why? Because you use one to sound like an idiot?


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## PadawanBater (Oct 22, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> *This is all very confusing for me.* First you want me to get Jesus' aproval for my posts, then you try to label me, now you are telling me how to be an acceptable fundie (what ever that means).


I realize it is, we're trying man, you just have to try a bit harder...

I don't care what you do or whose approval you think you might need or not... I was just saying that since you seem to believe in God, how do you think God would feel about your conduct in this thread? How stupid is it for you to sit there and say your God is real and this and that, then not even follow the rules you yourself say your God has? wtf? 

So again, since you totally dodged the two questions I asked you directly;

_



So what then, you're gonna do the typical "ashamed fundie" thing and deny you hold such positions? *You accept that God exists, do you not? You accept that Jesus Christ is God, do you not? If not, then say you don't.* Just don't be one of those guys who is too ashamed to admit what they actually believe because they know other people here in the real world will tear it to pieces. Those guys don't have any balls. At least have some balls when you defend your belief.

Click to expand...

_


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

No book was used.... truth flows straight off the top of my head....


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> It's easy to figure out what's apparent for you. You believe that something that there has never been any proof for is absolutely real.
> You would rather look at the real world with blinders consisting of the pages of a book of 2000 year old fairy tales than accept that the stories you were brought up believing are false.
> You obviously don't believe in evolution, despite the fact that all the major scientific disciplines support it. Not just biology.
> 
> ...




*Wow! That was fucking awesome!!!* I'll tell you what, there was so much passion in that sermon, I almost acknowledged my sins and confessed I need you to straighten out my mind. Whew!


Hmmmm? I'm a fundamentalist that thinks you are a bunch of narcissistic cowards? If that's what you want to believe, who cares? As long as I get to keep publicly calling you cowards of the self worshiping kind, you can call me what ever you want.

Prove to me that atheists are not narcissistic cowards, and I may renounce my faith. If you can prove that, then it will follow the ideas might be sound as well. You won't do it because you can't get a fine meal from a condemned restaurant.


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> I was just saying that since you seem to believe in God, how do you think God would feel about your conduct in this thread?



And, my answer is I don't know. I wasn't asking him the question. Still not seeing why this is an important question for you. 

Clearly you find my behavior in this thread unacceptable. You don't get to say God is myth, then use him to make your point. You gave up that privilege. Maybe theres a scientific way to ask that?





PadawanBater said:


> *How stupid* is it for you to sit there and say your God is real and this and that, then not even follow the rules you yourself say your God has?




Oh, grow up! Who says "how stupid" anymore?


You are not just the accuser, but the judge as well? You are going to tell me how to exercise my faith? But, you don't believe in him. Cowards!!!!! All you want is another chance to tear at flesh. 

You weren't joking around when you all agreed how much you love death. The truth was told. It should feel good to finally be seen for who you are. 

Your parents would be proud.


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> No book was used.... truth flows straight off the top of my head....


Hmmm?  ..............


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## morgentaler (Oct 22, 2009)

The burden of proof is on you to show that we are "narcissistic cowards". 
The same way as the burden of proof is on you to prove your sky god and his lovely Christian morality.

If I claim Bigfoot delivers my newspapers, I should be expected to show some evidence.

Come to think of it, your god might be Bigfoot communicating telepathic mind control to the masses. He does seem to get more sightings.


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> The burden of proof is on you to show that we are "narcissistic cowards".


Been there! Bought the bobble head monkey doll.






morgentaler said:


> The same way as the burden of proof is on you to prove your sky god and his lovely Christian morality.



Says who? 



And, it's my understanding this thread is where atheists are suppose to show what a better religion........... sorry..... system of thought it is to say G*d does not exist. 

So far, you all are failing miserably.



So, I don't have to prove shit! If you want to change the subject, start another thread. I won't promise I'll attend.


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## wm2009 (Oct 22, 2009)




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## morgentaler (Oct 22, 2009)

Took you quite a few words to say you don't have a leg to stand on.


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## PadawanBater (Oct 22, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> Been there! Bought the bobble head monkey doll.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Really dude, how many times and in how many different ways does someone need to explain to you what atheism is? 

Atheism is "I do not believe in God" it's also "I do not know if God exists". Both of those stances are ATHEISM. 

I don't really know how much more clear I can make it. Find me an atheist who says "God does not exist". I challenge you to find me ONE ATHEIST who holds that position. Most atheists hold the position of "I don't know if God exists" with varying degrees of "certainty". 

You are attacking a position NOBODY HERE HOLDS, and EVERYONE HERE AGREES WOULD BE ILLOGICAL. Do you understand that? 

Also, you are a coward, I asked you *specifically *what you believed, and you _still _couldn't answer it. That is pathetic.


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## BackwoodAssasin (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey guys, don't mean to just jump in, but I wanted to add my two cents. First off, I thought that being agnostic was the the idea of uncertainty, and atheism was the belief of no god. I could be mixed up a bit, on with the show. I don't classify myself as anything but a human being. Putting labels on peoples beliefs just groups them together to form sides of an unendable fight. It has been going on for a LONG time! "My god is the real god, yours is not real" - "There is no god, you people are wasting your lives". I could go on with the banter between groups indefinitely. There is no way for one group to win over the other, yet they wage global wars trying to beat their belief system into others. Being part of any side of this is detrimental to the individuals involved, because it takes away from free thinking. People start to believe what other people on their side say, even if they didn't agree with it originally just to try to help prove their side. It's all relative and individuality is what makes us the wonderfully diverse population we are. Do we really want to group everyone together and take that away? Just a thought.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> I do not know if God exists.
> 
> I've never, not once, not ever said "God does not exist".
> 
> ...


 *You do continue to project. *
*Simple is not understanding the very simplex explanations we believers have handed you repeatedly.*
*No matter how many times you receive the common answer, you still keep asking the same damn question....keep trying. Ritalin perhaps?*
*Your goal is to teach us something.*
*LMAO.*
*Keep trying.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> The world does not revolve around you. I could just picture you on the ground throwing a tantrum as you said this.
> 
> "I wan't! I wan't! I wan't! What about me! I'm such a victim! *They* have to change thier beliefs first before I can't enjoy my life!" (That's really the point, isn't it)
> 
> ...


 *Thirty seconds later....my point.*
No one's ever called me a bible thumper before. You make me smile. 
*You and other atheists "Defense" is a fabrication that looks good to further your supposed case.*
*Lies and fairy tales don't cut it babe.*
*You cannot backup your BS you constantly accuse others of.*


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

BackwoodAssasin said:


> Hey guys, don't mean to just jump in, but I wanted to add my two cents. First off, I thought that being agnostic was the the idea of uncertainty, and atheism was the belief of no god. I could be mixed up a bit, on with the show. I don't classify myself as anything but a human being.* Putting labels on peoples beliefs just groups them together to form sides of an unendable fight.* It has been going on for a LONG time! "My god is the real god, yours is not real" - "There is no god, you people are wasting your lives". I could go on with the banter between groups indefinitely. There is no way for one group to win over the other, yet they wage global wars trying to beat their belief system into others. Being part of any side of this is detrimental to the individuals involved, because it takes away from free thinking. People start to believe what other people on their side say, even if they didn't agree with it originally just to try to help prove their side. It's all relative and individuality is what makes us the wonderfully diverse population we are. Do we really want to group everyone together and take that away? Just a thought.



Good thoughts. 

I never had the chance to get really angry in this thread, though. Nothing was ever well stated, just a bunch of name calling. And then their was *their *arguments! Ha! 

I don't buy into the "can't we all just get along" approach. How is it anyone changes if there are no arguments? Life is filled with strife, and it exists because that's how life moves forward. Otherwise, Marie Osmond would still be fat. Or, everyone would love Odrama.


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## morgentaler (Oct 22, 2009)

Actually, they don't have to look far at all.

I am certain "God" does not exist. No more real than Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.

I don't eliminate Einstein's or Hawking's metaphors, but thanks to Christianities views of other gods I've been tipped from 99.9 to 100% when it comes to the lovable Yahweh. 




PadawanBater said:


> Find me an atheist who says "God does not exist". I challenge you to find me ONE ATHEIST who holds that position. Most atheists hold the position of "I don't know if God exists" with varying degrees of "certainty".
> 
> You are attacking a position NOBODY HERE HOLDS, and EVERYONE HERE AGREES WOULD BE ILLOGICAL. Do you understand that?
> 
> Also, you are a coward, I asked you *specifically *what you believed, and you _still _couldn't answer it. That is pathetic.


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Thirty seconds later....my point.*
> No one's ever called me a bible thumper before. You make me smile.
> *You and other atheists "Defense" is a fabrication that looks good to further your supposed case.*
> *Lies and fairy tales don't cut it babe.*
> *You cannot backup your BS you constantly accuse others of.*



Huh? I'm not atheist. I have a spirit.



edit: Never mind.


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## BackwoodAssasin (Oct 22, 2009)

I wasn't exactly saying, "can't we all just get along". I know that will never happen, it's human nature. I also don't want anyone to think I'm some hippie pacifist. All I was really saying was don't buy into other people's BS. Figure it out on your own using EDUCATED thought and fuck all the haters. The bible was a fictional novel wrote many years ago that was transformed into a means to control the general population and religious figureheads use it to leach off of weak minded people.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*Don't let that post confuse you.*
*I'm merely using your words from an earlier post to show P how repetitive the question and answer series works with him.*
No one's ever called me a bible thumper before. You make me smile. 
*Neither of us has exhibited being the Bible thumper....just lies for his ridiculous defense.*


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## JimmyPot (Oct 22, 2009)

I don't believe in a great creator.Its weird how holy rollers always say how could this world come from nothing?They can't ever answer,How did the god who created this world come from. nothing?


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*Here's your proof C*J......you are childish. You really should stay offline for at least a few hours a day.*
*It's making you nutty.*




Atheism 10-21-2009 03:04 PMHere's your proof! Enjoy!!


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## Brazko (Oct 22, 2009)

JimmyPot said:


> I don't believe in a great creator.Its weird how holy rollers always say how could this world come from nothing?They can't ever answer,How did the god who created this world come from. nothing?


 
I believe your statment to be true in a essence of sense towards the Holy Molly Rollers...

but on another NOte.. Quantum Physics + the Anomaly/Theory of being able to REtrieve DAta/infromation back from blackholes gives us an insight on how nothing can come from Nothing.. It's All Science Baby....

but on another point, a Weak minded one.., Yes, the Holy Moly Believers and the Holy Moly Deniers....., FAiL


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*Hey, whatever it takes to soothe your lonely soul.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*Don't ever demand apologies from me.*
*You have proven yourself a pompous ass here and numerous other places throughout RIU.*
*Live with what's real.*
*After all C*J, you only have ONE life to live, right?*
10-21-2009, 01




:03 PM 
CrackerJax 
The Prize Is Inside
*Mr. Ganja*




*Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: You call it Earth.
Posts: 12,990 






































































*​
permalink
It's not too late to prove to babs how wrong she was about my neg repping her...... just let me know... I have a fool proof way of showing you Babs.... even you will get it....

Or you can apologize like a mature person. You showed no maturity last night.

Let me know.....

Apologize or proof will be provided. 
__________________
#*214*   




10-21-2009, 01:22 PM 
CrackerJax 
The Prize Is Inside
*Mr. Ganja*




*Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: You call it Earth.
Posts: 12,990 






































































*​
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I'll give her till 6 to respond.... then I'll just assume she can't apologize for XXX reason, and I will simply prove I didn't neg rep her yesterday.

I'm always willing to help..... 
__________________




...........out. 




10-21-2009, 02:13 PM 
CrackerJax 
The Prize Is Inside
*Mr. Ganja*




*Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: You call it Earth.
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*​
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Well, I never have given a neg rep, but since babs insists upon getting a "teachable" lesson, I will oblige just this one time.

Probably the only time a neg rep carried proof of not getting a neg rep...  
__________________




10-21-2009, 02:19 PM 
CrackerJax 
The Prize Is Inside
*Mr. Ganja*




*Join Date: Aug 2008
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She kind of insisted that I neg repped her after I said I didn't....multiple times. If my word isn't good enough for her, then I must give her the proof she desires. 





10-21-2009, 02:38 PM 
CrackerJax 
The Prize Is Inside
*Mr. Ganja*




*Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: You call it Earth.
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*​
permalink
well, i'm just going to give her a real neg rep. Since I can't give anyone a rep +or- twice in 24 hrs.... it will provide the proof she so RUDELY demanded on multiple threads..... she was actually trolling after me last night with her nonsense.

As soon as I get back from the hounds walk.... I'll pop her, since she doesn't believe me.  
__________________




...........out.


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## Brazko (Oct 22, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Here's your proof C*J......you are f'ing childish. You really should stay offline for at least a few hours a day.*
> *It's making you nutty.*
> 
> 
> ...


 
Attack of the Negga's ....RUNnnn!!

I'm outta Here...



(disclaimer: I Am Black, the word Negga is a play on the word Nigga, which is accepted by Black people as long as pronunciation is correct and usually is exclaimed by anyone white, black, Asian, etc.. when referring to their homeboy=close friend.. the word Negga is in reference to the onslaught of negative reps being applied to the so called people of belief, which is also referred to them being of religious nature.,. this was a Joke on the play of the Two and the stereotype that is often giving to a specifci ethnic group by another.., however, in context of the nature of this forum and the humor it involves, with hopefully everyone knowing I am Black.. it was simply a jestered applied to the people who have ran wild with (-) repping people.. this has been a PSA and I apologize if I offended anyone Black or White...Thank YOU!!)


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

well, i'm just going to give her a real neg rep. Since I can't give anyone a rep +or- twice in 24 hrs.... it will provide the proof she so RUDELY demanded on multiple threads..... she was actually trolling after me last night with her nonsense.

As soon as I get back from the hounds walk.... I'll pop her, since she doesn't believe me.  
*Correction C*j...It was you who was RUDE. I posted that proof already.*
*You get nutty over the word faith alone. That's your problem, not mine.*
*I promise you C*j that if you post God instead of G*D, it won't make you an instantaneous believer. *
*Try it!!!*


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*Hey RIU.....CJ never neg reps.*
*Take his word. *
*Grow up CJ.*


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## Brazko (Oct 22, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Hey, whatever it takes to soothe your lonely soul.*


Right, That's all that Matters.. Your Soul , No Devil can take it Away from You!! Unless you Sell it to Them..


and REally this Time.., I'm Out


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

Or you can apologize like a mature person. You showed no maturity last night.

*LOL, as in mature.....like you?*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

Like in I told you the truth and you just basically called me a liar. Now of course, you know I wasn't lying. yet, you continue to blather on even though all can see U were 100% incorrect. 

Ur a small person.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*You big, bad atheist you.......lol, you show yourself smaller and smaller with each and every post. *


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

Just can't admit it can you........


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*I can go back and show you exactly where I said it wasn't even about the stupid neg-rep. LOL, THE ONLY NEG-reps I have received have been from the atheist thread......big bad atheist. "You REFUSE to believe and see logic as I call you names, I'll show you!!!" HAHAHAHAHAHA*
*Why the hell would I even care? It's about your inability to show any one, other than your fellow religous followers, even a single ounce of respect.*
*You get what you deserve C*J.*
*As I said, your whole army of atheist neg reps won't phase me.** Appease your lonely soul.*
*Very small price for me to pay for your orgasmic experience, I assure you.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Just can't admit it can you........


 *You lose, but you will just never get that.*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

U even followed me to another thread and repeated the lie/ignorance. It takes an awful lot to get me to neg rep after 12000 posts....

Ur the winner...  If someone as tolerant as I am is driven to neg rep U..... here's a hint... it's not everyone else ... it's you.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*As usual, you are so FOS. The post was merely, "Did someone just say they had.....faith?"*
*Very easy to prove that you are once again attempting to make your argument based on a LIE.*
*LOOOOOOOOL at you being tolerant. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*
*You can't stand someone who keeps attempting to make you stay on course---minus the stupid one-liner defenses.*
*That simple.*
*FOR THE RECORD C*J.......I HAD ALREADY POSTED IN THAT THREAD. I don't follow you. You, however, troll all too many on RIU as is evident.*
*But keep using lies for your defense.*


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## morgentaler (Oct 22, 2009)

Congrats on 13,000 CJ.
Do they show up at your house with a cake for that? Damn. It better be good cake.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*Congrats on your proof too, LOL.*
#*214*   




10-21-2009, 01:22 PM 
CrackerJax 
The Prize Is Inside
*Mr. Ganja*





*Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: You call it Earth.
Posts: 12,990 






































































*​
permalink
I'll give her till 6 to respond.... then I'll just assume she can't apologize for XXX reason, and I will simply prove I didn't neg rep her yesterday.

I'm always willing to help..... 
*You somehow proved you didn't neg-rep...."by" neg-repping?
That's logical!!!!*


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## Mauihund (Oct 22, 2009)

BackwoodAssasin said:


> fuck all the haters. The bible was a fictional novel wrote many years ago that was transformed into a means to control the general population and religious figureheads use it to leach off of weak minded people.




Good to see someone not being a hater around here.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

Like in I told you the truth and you just basically called me a liar. Now of course, you know I wasn't lying. yet, you continue to blather on even though all can see U were 100% incorrect. 

*You did? I know you're not lying?*
*What proof do you even think you showed any single person? How is a line of neg-reps from atheists proof that you didn't give me any other than "that" single one?*
*You demand proof all the time C*J.*
*Cough up your proof you proclaimed to have provided.*


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 22, 2009)

Why do people think that the Creator is just made up? Fake? Imaginary?
I AM just going to create a new thread.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

Babs..... u don't understand the rep system... just stop. Ur making an even bigger fool out of urself than usual.



Sunshine..... given the absolute ZERO proof of any Creator, how can you assume there is one? 

Not knowing the abc's... doesn't mean putting xyz is the correct thing to do. It should be left blank until the information is forthcoming. It's okay to say "I don't know".


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Babs..... u don't understand the rep system... just stop. Ur making an even bigger fool out of urself than usual.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My friend I tell you the truth, the Creator is real! The grass is greener on this side. You can choose to be over here too.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Babs..... u don't understand the rep system... just stop. Ur making an even bigger fool out of urself than usual.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 *Yo C*J, again, just because YOU say it, doesn't make it so.*
*It's ok for you to be embarassed for your discrepancies in showing what a hypocritical ass you make of yourself......let a load off and apologize instead of playing victim.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> My friend I tell you the truth, the Creator is real! The grass is greener on this side. You can choose to be over here too.


 
It's okay to say "I don't know".

*...just as it is okay to say you don't know what we do. *


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> My friend I tell you the truth, the Creator is real! The grass is greener on this side. You can choose to be over here too.


But Sunshine, you cannot say with any certainty that you know what the truth is.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

*.....and yet you can say with fervency that you DO know.*
*Get it?*
*Now watch you get off course again.*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

Babs... again...ur a bit thick. I have already stated that it is okay to say "I don't know". 
This indicates my position.

Is English your second language? You seem to have difficulty with the nuance of the language.


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> But Sunshine, you cannot say with any certainty that you know what the truth is.


God is truth.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

That's nice.... what does that mean? Self evident?


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> That's nice.... what does that mean? Self evident?


Why do you not see? What makes you blind?


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

What am I supposed to see? I've examined the Bible and find it unoriginal and not verifiable.

I look for verification that Jesius existed using sources other than the Bible, and find none. None...

What am I missing, other than accepting what I'm told....which is based on.... nothing at all. Just a bunch of hear say.....

I find it incredulous that anyone would accept something as important as eternal life/damnation at face value.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Babs... again...ur a bit thick. I have already stated that it is okay to say "I don't know".
> This indicates my position.
> 
> Is English your second language? You seem to have difficulty with the nuance of the language.


 *See how you are unable to stay on course without your silly name calling.*
*I'm very thin btw.*
*You say you don't know, "but" you do know that what we believe is in fairy tales........EVEN THOUGH it's been repeated HUNDREDS of times to you this has little, if anything, to do with what the Bible says.*
*"Yet" that has been your entire defense.*
*......that's your position C*J.*
*That's been your ENTIRE argument.*
*Accusing and not noting what others post.*
*I have no difficulty with the English language. I see and read clearly.*
*Try it some time. Your arguments will cease to exist.*
*You won't allow that to happen though, will you?*


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> What am I supposed to see? I've examined the Bible and find it unoriginal and not verifiable.
> 
> I look for verification that Jesius existed using sources other than the Bible, and find none. None...
> 
> ...


 .......and it just keeps going, and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> What am I supposed to see? I've examined the Bible and find it unoriginal and not verifiable.
> 
> I look for verification that Jesius existed using sources other than the Bible, and find none. None...
> 
> ...


There are other religions that could lead you to God. The best way to find God is to be charitable (loving of all people) and to show kindness (giving to others). The Bible is a bit much at times. It seems as if you do anything you are going to hell, but really thats not what it is all about. See sins are the undoing of Gods creation, nothing good really comes from them. They lead to suffering, not just for you but for others as well. Like if you commit a "sin" if usually will have negative effects. Not just for you but it will end up effecting someone else too. God gave us consciousness. Creation comes from consciousness. We can create, where everything else in this world destroys things. Of course God can create too.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> What am I supposed to see? I've examined the Bible and find it unoriginal and not verifiable.
> 
> I look for verification that Jesius existed using sources other than the Bible, and find none. None...
> 
> ...


Not true CrackerJax, There is other sources, many during the time he existed. *AND* before. Notably dozens and dozens of 'Jesus' Like stories, one namely in its time, quite a dominant presence of deity within the Egyptians religion. Horus - Read about him, quite the same as jesus, it even translates into the same name from egyptian to hebrew. Another few things to note about the correlations between Horus, your 'Christan' god, and what you know now as 'Jesus'. After this I hope all you christens will comprehend the follies of your way and worship your true Egyptian gods, you fucking heathens.

http://ct.grenme.com/index.php?title=Horus-Jesus_Correlations&printable=yes
*And Remember:* read the foot notes children, those are important. We call them citations, or for you simple folk; Evidence.

Have fun reading!~


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 22, 2009)

I used to be an atheist. I used to think that people that believed in God were nuts. I understand that people have their own opinions and they are allowed to have them. I do know that finding God has made me a better person. It is not about some religion. I know that the world would be a better place if God was on peoples mind. It really is not a bad thing and I can understand how religion would make it seem that way. Christians say you are going to hell if you do one little thing and Muslims want to blow up the earth. Of course this seems crazy. Thats because it is, but this is not really what God is. Like I said before God is in you, you are the one that needs to choose to find Him. Yes He is in everyone. Remember that God is perfection.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm arguing figurative reference rather than literal sunshine, you can't seem to grasp the difference.

If you believe in god as a way of life and proper living, cool beans! If you follow the teachings of jesus as a philosopher just like Aristotle, Plato, friedrich nietzsche well all the power to you! 

If however, you're going on like Jesus is as real as this tea i'm drinking right now, you're insane.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> Why do you not see? What makes you blind?


 *Very simple. His incessant and desperate need to be right.*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

Sunshine.... being nice to ppl and being respectful just means I was raised well. I was raised well. It doesn't mean there is a G*D required to make that possible.

Religion is not a pre requisite to living well, or being nice. I have friends and relatives who are religious and I have some who are atheist. I find the degree of faith or lack there of has little to do with how they live their lives. It has more to do with their upbringing.

Good parents.... good kids. And vice versa.

There's simply no proof of any G*D. None. It's not needed of course since proof is never given and yet.... we continue onward...since we could survive away from the trees.


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## sunshine17542 (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Sunshine.... being nice to ppl and being respectful just means I was raised well. I was raised well. It doesn't mean there is a G*D required to make that possible.
> 
> Religion is not a pre requisite to living well, or being nice. I have friends and relatives who are religious and I have some who are atheist. I find the degree of faith or lack there of has little to do with how they live their lives. It has more to do with their upbringing.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you do not see.


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## Babs34 (Oct 22, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> I'm arguing figurative reference rather than literal sunshine, you can't seem to grasp the difference.
> 
> If you believe in god as a way of life and proper living, cool beans! If you follow the teachings of jesus as a philosopher just like Aristotle, Plato, friedrich nietzsche well all the power to you!
> 
> If however, you're going on like Jesus is as real as this tea i'm drinking right now, you're insane.


 *I know I'll live to regret saying this.*
*It's not a book, it's what you feel, it's what you know. It's what speaks to the soul. *
*Quite simply, it is what mere words can't describe or explain.*
*All at the same time, it's what you beckon when time sits still and calls your name.*
*It's no myth and it's certainly nothing that was indoctrinated upon me.*


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 22, 2009)

I feel ya after a fashion Babs, I can see this 'Philosophy' speaking to my soul just as much as I see it speaking to yours, but that *is* all it is. 
You must understand this. Well, I guess you don't have to, but it'd be a shame if you didn't.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 22, 2009)

Nature is a self running system with no pre set plan or destiny apparent. Some need to have order. Some need it so bad, that they feel it's okay to invent it.


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Nature is a self running system with no pre set plan or destiny apparent. Some need to have order. Some need it so bad, that they feel it's okay to invent it.


Nicely put sir.


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## Vinvin (Oct 23, 2009)

I'm Buddhist myself. I know enough that as a Buddhist, we don't believe in a supreme being.

Buddha isn't a God, he's just an enlightened person. To me, God is just an anthropomorphic representation of reality as a whole.

You know, we're all one. One is all.


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## Babs34 (Oct 23, 2009)

DJBoxhouse said:


> I feel ya after a fashion Babs, I can see this 'Philosophy' speaking to my soul just as much as I see it speaking to yours, but that *is* all it is.
> You must understand this. Well, I guess you don't have to, but it'd be a shame if you didn't.


*That's all it is...to you. Why don't you understand that?*
*Is it really so difficult to fathom that just because your experience is not mine, that it's still possibly real?*
*If you don't get that, society no longer has a need for science.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 23, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Nature is a self running system with no pre set plan or destiny apparent. Some need to have order. Some need it so bad, that they feel it's okay to invent it.


*And you know this Cj, why?...because it has been proven?*
*The only people proving a need for such order are non-believers.*
*Why fight to disprove what you do not know?*
*Why not just allow nature to take its course--while quietly laughing at the fairy tale?*
*War does not exist on Earth simply because of religion.*
*Mankind will ALWAYS have beliefs and systems that will keep one another at war.*
*To blame religion is all too simple reasoning.*
*---narcissistic entities believing themselves omnipotent---*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 23, 2009)

Vinvin said:


> I'm Buddhist myself. I know enough that as a Buddhist, we don't believe in a supreme being.
> 
> Buddha isn't a God, he's just an enlightened person. To me, God is just an anthropomorphic representation of reality as a whole.
> 
> You know, we're all one. One is all.


I'm definitely down with the tenants of Buddhism. If there is a religion which probably hits the true mark best, meaning it meshes well with the scientific advancements we are making each day, it would be Buddhism. No other religion makes sense the way Buddhism sects do.


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## JimmyPot (Oct 23, 2009)

Brazko said:


> I believe your statment to be true in a essence of sense towards the Holy Molly Rollers...
> 
> but on another NOte.. Quantum Physics + the Anomaly/Theory of being able to REtrieve DAta/infromation back from blackholes gives us an insight on how nothing can come from Nothing.. It's All Science Baby....
> 
> but on another point, a Weak minded one.., Yes, the Holy Moly Believers and the Holy Moly Deniers....., FAiL


Yeah I know it is science.I could go on and on with this subject but its a battle I don't care about like I did when I was 20 years old.Some people need a crutch to get through life and a believe there is a reason for all this.I don't.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 23, 2009)

babs wanted this posted here so here ya go babs i love the doobies , this song changes nothing i still believe what i believe


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## morgentaler (Oct 23, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> I used to be an atheist. I used to think that people that believed in God were nuts.


Did you previously believe in things like crystals, astrology, homeopathy, or anything like that?


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## Mauihund (Oct 23, 2009)

My understanding of the purpose of this thread is to discuss the validity of the atheist beliefs. It's entitled "Atheism", so I'm feeling pretty sure I'm right. I've been wrong before.


Having had the chance to "chat" with some of atheists disciples, here's what I'm gathering. I understand that these "evolved" relatives of the apes are not the total picture for all atheists. There may be some who are willing to respect others beliefs. But, having at the heart of this belief system the abolition of all things spiritual, I don't expect that to be true. 

#1. An atheist needs to get everyone in the world to change their belief in God and their convictions on how they exercise their faith, before they can be happy. 

This is predicated on the many, many complaints made about how people have done awful things in the name of some religion or God. I'm not minimizing anything. It's necessary to keep in mind that human nature will often try to shift the blame to anyone and anything it can. It is naive to hear some madman say he killed witches because God told him to, *and believe him*. Which makes my next point. 

#2. The atheists belief that God does not exist is based primarily on the lies of other people. 

Without doing the hard work themselves, they accept stories from unknown, untrusted individuals their behavior was guided by God. From that position of trust, they use this information to formulate wrong conclusions about God and the nature of the universe.

#3. The heart of atheism is the destruction of all things spiritual. (it deserved repeating)

If it were simply someone saying I dont believe in God, there would be no conflict. My thought is, who cares? Believe, dont believe..... it makes no difference to me. But its always more then that (please refer to point #1). It is an aggressive stance to take when you say almost everyone in all the world, from the beginning of time was stupid, ignorant, deluded, and out of their mind. (interesting note that youll acknowledge the Christians were out of their minds, and still use their behavior as evidence of Gods non-existence. But I digress) 

#4. An atheist is a narcissistic coward.

Ive made this statement many times, and the fact my concerns in this subject have been ignored, it makes the point for the coward part. Suggesting your view is superior to the majority of all humanity and God puts you in the narcissistic category. I can say more on this if anyone wants. That is, if anyone is actually reading all this banter. Ha!


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## morgentaler (Oct 23, 2009)

1) Religion is based on the naivety that you dismiss as ridiculous. Maybe someday you'll get the hypocrisy of that viewpoint.

2) Atheism is based on not believing the lies of others. In the same way that you don't believe in all the other gods in the world, we don't believe in yours. Except that we don't believe it because there is no proof for it, not because we were indoctrinated with the idea that if we believe in or worship those other gods we'll burn in hellfire.

3) Not every atheist is anti-spiritual. And not every atheist is a skeptic. Some atheists believe in the power of crystals without any proof as to their efficacy at all. I, personally, am against all forms of dogmatic faith and "magical thinking". If you want to believe that farts cure cancer, go right ahead, but don't expect your viewpoint to be respected until you back it up. Since the religion of the specific, capitalized "God" judges all non-believers explicitly in its texts, it invites the full on ridicule of its faith. Your religion made the assumption of superiority long before atheists could speak without fear of immediate death.

4) Yes, you've made that statement many times. You're a child molester and a rapist of women. Look I made a statement too. Just as baseless and devoid of proof as yours. I bet you even touch yourself every time you call an atheist a monkey, or think about Adam and Eve's children having sex with each other. Once again, baseless, but it's within the realm of possibility, therefore it must be true! That's the point you're trying to make right, Short Eyes?


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## CrackerJax (Oct 23, 2009)

The funny thing is Maui takes the basic tenants of religion and simply plugs in atheist instead.

Pretty lazy intellectually....


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## Mauihund (Oct 23, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> 4) You're a child molester and a rapist of women. Look I made a statement too. Just as baseless and devoid of proof as yours.



I offered thoughts to support my claims, reasons why I came to a conclusion.


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## Mauihund (Oct 23, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> The funny thing is Maui takes the basic tenants of religion and simply plugs in atheist instead.




If the shoe fits...........


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## CrackerJax (Oct 23, 2009)

But of course, it doesn't.... the point of my post.


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## Mauihund (Oct 23, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> But of course, it doesn't.... the point of my post.




Why do you think atheism is not simply another form of faith in a system of belief?

I've claimed that you are substituting one form or religion for another. There has to be a formal view of atheism, or there would be no definition of it. 

That makes it an organization of sorts, along the line of the christian church. They all say they believe in God, but there are so many different versions. The atheists believe the negative, and there are many different versions as well.

Looks like a good comparison to me.


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## morgentaler (Oct 23, 2009)

It's almost funny that Christians get offended if anyone says their belief in god is irrational or even downright stupid. How dare someone question or mock their religion.

But look in the bible and it attacks anyone that doesn't follow their god.
Drive past churches or roadside billboards and see lovely admonitions that unbelievers will go to hell.
You can find it on TV and the radio... join up with God or expect eternal punishment.
And don't forget to send money.

Two thousand years of Christians abusing anyone that doesn't agree with them in the name of their god and we're the evil ones for calling them on this baseless, *narcissistic* religion. Why, the fact that they need their god and can't handle the criticism might even make them, gasp, narcissistic cowards.

Ooooh. I see now. He's not really on their side. He's just trying to draw attention to the hypocrisy.
An excellent Poe if I ever saw one.


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## morgentaler (Oct 23, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> There has to be a formal view of atheism, or there would be no definition of it.


There is:
a lack of belief in gods.

That's it.

I know, you're looking for something magical to explain what this "no gods" thing is.

Maybe someday you'll understand.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 23, 2009)

Atheism is the belief of using reason. This automatically disqualifies a personal G*D..... which is an unreasonable thing to believe in. Religion is also completely egotistical.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 23, 2009)

calm reson , keep talking i'm on board


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## CrackerJax (Oct 23, 2009)

Atheism is willing to say... 'I don't know". This is the inherent problem with Religion. If a person is mildly aware of science, then that person already knows that science has not unraveled the mysteries of the universe. That person can see though that science is peeling that onion of uncertainty each year and the picture is becoming clearer.

Religion states it already has all the answers. People can see quite obviously that simply isn't true. 


Hence the increasing hysteria of the religious as science takes over slowly but surely as the preferred tool of knowledge.


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## Mauihund (Oct 23, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> But look in the bible and it attacks anyone that doesn't follow their god.
> Drive past churches or roadside billboards and see lovely admonitions that unbelievers will go to hell.
> You can find it on TV and the radio... join up with God or expect eternal punishment.
> And don't forget to send money.
> ...



That will fall under point #1. If it weren't for them pesky religious folk, I'd be happy. Ahy?

Atheism should be able to stand on it's own merits. Talk about it without mentioning the christians, if you can. Atheism exists only because God exists. If he never existed, there would be no call for an atheist. 


I find it funny as hell, you who are contemptiouse of all things spiritual, getting upset because I am not acting like the believer I ought to. Maybe God is speaking through you? I'll give it some thought. 

If Jesus doesn't approve of my behavior on these threads, I'm sure you will be the first to inform me. That would make you and your disciples of destruction messengers from God. You little cherubs! Does Jesus want me to quit? Talk to him and get back to me. And thanks for letting him speak through you.

I m getting tired of this thread. So, get your last comments in before I pitch this topic with all the passion that 1% of the entire worlds population, ever, deserves.

Everything I learned about atheism, I learned on RIU. Perhaps I should be grateful. Hmmmmm?


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## Mauihund (Oct 23, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> It's almost funny that Christians get offended if anyone says their belief in god is irrational or even downright stupid. How dare someone question or mock their religion.




The only offence I've taken is having to put up with the smell of standing next to the monkey cage in order to learn more about atheism. All the fecal bombs, watching you drink one anothers piss and sniff each others asses is offensive, but still educational and entertaining.

Make a scary noise, and all the monkeys hoot and huff, swing around the threads and menace the unsuspecting. A true monkey has no boundaries. The world is your toilet. I think I've heard about enough. 

Hey! They just rang the dinner bell! Are you salivating? My bad..... wrong animal. You aren't loyal to anyone but yourself.


btw: What the hell is that white shit coming out of your mouth? Thats nasty.


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## morgentaler (Oct 23, 2009)

You're a sad little man.

If there were any evidence that it would work, I'd ask someone to pray for you.


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 23, 2009)

<Organic cups his hand over his mouth and yells into the dank* cave* where the prisoners are shown light & shadows thrown onto the walls which they are *told* is reality, chained in place by their own dogma and faith.>

Jesus of Nazareth was the bastard son of a Roman soldier!

Tiberius Julius Abdes Panthera. Look him up.


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## morgentaler (Oct 23, 2009)

You will die under Obama's new blasphemy laws.

(If you have to run, come to Canada. The weed's better anyway.)


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## Babs34 (Oct 23, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Atheism is the belief of using reason. This automatically disqualifies a personal G*D..... which is an unreasonable thing to believe in. Religion is also completely egotistical.


 *Atheism is a personal belief in ones ominipotence----L I M I T E D.*
*This qualifies YOU as gods in your grotesque view of what is humble. *


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## CrackerJax (Oct 23, 2009)

No atheist believes that so..... u r alone in that opinion.


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## Babs34 (Oct 23, 2009)

*LOL, of course they don't.........they "are" gods.*
*Do it C*J.........I DARE YOU. Type God, LOLLLLLLLLL.*
*YOU CANNOT........silly rabbit.*
*Lose the myth.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 23, 2009)

*LOL, of course they don't.........they "are" gods.*
*Do it C*J.........I DARE YOU. Type God, LOLLLLLLLLL.*
*YOU CANNOT........silly rabbit.*
*Lose the myth.*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 23, 2009)

ur boring me....


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## Babs34 (Oct 23, 2009)

*...and you are boring at least half of RIU, your point is?*
*...oh yes, you are god, hahhahaha.......how dare we question your knowledge?*
*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA*


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## Babs34 (Oct 23, 2009)

*The raw auacity. *
*Go brew your stew. *


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## morgentaler (Oct 23, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Atheism is a personal belief in ones ominipotence----L I M I T E D.*
> *This qualifies YOU as gods in your grotesque view of what is humble. *


Please don't post when you're stoned. You sound even more ridiculous.

First you get the definition of atheism wrong, and then you put the terms omnipotent and limited side by side. Two terms that don't exactly go together.

Gods are supernatural explanations of the how and why for people who don't want to put any effort into thinking about the how and why, and to act as a support system for people who don't think that this life is good enough for them.

The best part about not having an afterlife is not having to spend an eternity with wankers.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 23, 2009)

Oh, if you live long enough.... death is a sweet release from the build up of tard residue inflicted by ppl like Babs.


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## PadawanBater (Oct 24, 2009)

Guys, I seriously suggest watching this. Believers and atheists alike. This is one of the best explinations of what it's like to become an atheist, I can personally relate to this, as I'm sure a lot of you guys can too. 

Babs, pay attention to this. I'd like your opinion on what the guy says, if you wouldn't mind. 

[youtube]jyjNXdEGjO4#[/youtube]


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## Vinvin (Oct 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> I'm definitely down with the tenants of Buddhism. If there is a religion which probably hits the true mark best, meaning it meshes well with the scientific advancements we are making each day, it would be Buddhism. No other religion makes sense the way Buddhism sects do.


Yesssssssss!


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## morgentaler (Oct 24, 2009)

It's not a religion. It's a philosophy.
There's no required worship of a great sky-wanker at all.
What a lovely idea


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## CrackerJax (Oct 24, 2009)

Maybe if we had a book and ended the last chapter by saying it's all true..... maybe then.

We need a BOOK!!!!


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## Mauihund (Oct 24, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> It's not a religion. It's a philosophy.
> There's no required worship of a great sky-wanker at all.
> What a lovely idea



Budah said he never wanted to be worshiped. But he was.


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## Mauihund (Oct 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> We need a BOOK!!!!



What you need is a pair of nuts. Over 13k posts?! How much penis cream do you go through in a week? And who's your supplier?


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## morgentaler (Oct 24, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> What you need is a pair of nuts. Over 13k posts?! How much penis cream do you go through in a week? And who's your supplier?


But which two does he pick?
It's a tough call between you, Babs, and Brazko.


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## Mauihund (Oct 24, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> But which two does he pick?
> It's a tough call between you, Babs, and Brazko.



Ohhhh! Damn!


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## CrackerJax (Oct 24, 2009)

A trifecta of nuts..


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## Mauihund (Oct 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> A trifecta of nuts..





What the fuck is this?! Some kind of new tactic? Get the believer to start laughing at our funny jokes, lulling him into a false scene of security? 

I don't trust you.


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## morgentaler (Oct 24, 2009)

This poll regarding domestic partner rights was close to a 50/50 split before Pharyngula and its atheist readers noticed it:

http://birmingham.bizjournals.com/birmingham/poll/index.html

Rational people rock* 



*Not all atheists are rationalist. But all rationalists are atheists.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 24, 2009)

no, ur sense of false security comes from religion, not I.


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## DIAGORAS (Oct 24, 2009)

"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth - for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist knows that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter. He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsible persons, that the job is here and the time is now."​ 
Madalyn Murray O'Hair


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## Psychaotic (Oct 24, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> I've posted this before, but.....
> *Jesusaurus Rex*


Oh man...that had me laughing so hard I almost knocked over the bong. Thanks for making my day.


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## DIAGORAS (Oct 24, 2009)

I can definitely relate,  +rep

I see none of the sheep replied, the truth can have a nasty sting.




PadawanBater said:


> Guys, I seriously suggest watching this. Believers and atheists alike. This is one of the best explinations of what it's like to become an atheist, I can personally relate to this, as I'm sure a lot of you guys can too.
> 
> Babs, pay attention to this. I'd like your opinion on what the guy says, if you wouldn't mind.
> 
> [youtube]jyjNXdEGjO4#[/youtube]


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 24, 2009)

You're welcome...I cracked up when I read it too...read some of the other links on the same page.


Psychaotic said:


> Oh man...that had me laughing so hard I almost knocked over the bong. Thanks for making my day.


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## Mauihund (Oct 24, 2009)

DIAGORAS said:


> "An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth - for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist knows that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter. He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsible persons, that the job is here and the time is now."​
> Madalyn Murray O'Hair



And an atheist is generous, kind and forgiving of everyone! Ha!


And here I thought atheist didn't have a statement of faith.....I mean manifesto.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 24, 2009)

Sounds like common sense more than a manifesto. Don't be scared, it's just logic linked to love.


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> No atheist believes that so..... u r alone in that opinion.


*Um, ya think? *


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## DIAGORAS (Oct 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Sounds like common sense more than a manifesto. Don't be scared, it's just logic linked to love.


I think you Lost him at common sense, and confused him with logic.

To bad his faith is linked to the genie in a bottle, they sure do love their jeebus juice.


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> The funny thing is Maui takes the basic tenants of religion and simply plugs in atheist instead.
> 
> Pretty lazy intellectually....


*CJ, just because you wrote the book on 100 PLUS ways to insult an individual, just to make yourself look important, doesn't mean you've ever stated an actual case.
Maui has stated actual reasoning......with sentences. Take lessons. Observe more than repetitively chanting your ignorant insults "you" C*J deem wise. 

*


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 24, 2009)

I disagree....it may sound arrogant when I say "I am my own god," but I'm not saying "I am a god". It just means I am the master of my own destiny, for good or ill, and I do not accept the belief that there is an all powerful being manipulating the universe and everyone in it.It means I look to myself to find answers,and that I am responsible for my own actions.If I do "good", it is because I choose to, not because I am afraid of the threat of being burned for eternity as punishment by a vengeful diety for not conforming to the laws of his particular religion.
It means that I accept that there may be nothing after this life....in fact,I must assume it, since there is no concrete proof of an afterlife.It means I must make good use of the life I have now, because there are no guarantees.
I have no need to feel superior or godly.I know I am not omnipotent,in fact, just today my klutzy ass tripped over my own feet,and my big toe became tangled in the leg of my sweat pants and I crashed into the door.It was certainly humbling,because it demonstrated yet again just how omnipotent I ain't!


Babs34 said:


> *Atheism is a personal belief in ones ominipotence----L I M I T E D.*
> *This qualifies YOU as gods in your grotesque view of what is humble. *


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Atheism is the belief of using reason. This automatically disqualifies a personal G*D..... which is an unreasonable thing to believe in. Religion is also completely egotistical.


*Every last time you define yourself, or atheism for that matter, it is an indicative description of a self-righteous pompous wannabe.*
*You are hung up on religion......must be a reason.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> I disagree....it may sound arrogant when I say "I am my own god," but I'm not saying "I am a god". It just means I am the master of my own destiny, for good or ill, and I do not accept the belief that there is an all powerful being manipulating the universe and everyone in it.It means I look to myself to find answers,and that I am responsible for my own actions.If I do "good", it is because I choose to, not because I am afraid of the threat of being burned for eternity as punishment by a vengeful diety for not conforming to the laws of his particular religion.
> It means that I accept that there may be nothing after this life....in fact,I must assume it, since there is no concrete proof of an afterlife.It means I must make good use of the life I have now, because there are no guarantees.
> I have no need to feel superior or godly.I know I am not omnipotent,in fact, just today my klutzy ass tripped over my own feet,and my big toe became tangled in the leg of my sweat pants and I crashed into the door.It was certainly humbling,because it demonstrated yet again just how omnipotent I ain't!


 *Ok, I'm trying to catch up on these posts, but will backtrack later.*
*I have no problem with you being your own god Stoney. That's a right we all as human beings have..or at least SHOULD have.*
*I believe in God and believe I am somewhat a master of my own destiny.*
*You should look to yourself to find answers. I do. See how we're not so different thus far?*
*If I do good, it's simply because I want to as well....not to score points with God, or society for that matter.*
*The fear instilled Biblically with fire, etc.....I feel is just another one of man's fallacies in comprehension. I believe hell to be the TOTAL ABSENCE of God. I believe here on earth, no one, upon no one, is living with the absolute total absence..atheist or not.*
*I don't follow why it is you must assume there is no afterlife soley because you've received no "concrete" proof though.*
*The human mind cannot even comprehend eternity. I would think that fact alone would keep you open to the probabilities of an "intelligent design".....and not as prescribed by a mere book.*
*I'm clumsy as shit myself, LOL.....my life circumstances don't allow me to be anything less than imperfect. And that is the understatement.*
*Stoney, I am impressed that you are actually conversing, rather than immediately lashing out like a lunatic.*
*No offense to you for who may or may not be your friends, but I have seen that many are not capable of just conversing on a "real" and down to earth level.*
*For this reason, I shall rep thee.*
*LOL, I've never announced a rep before. *


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 24, 2009)

"Hell is the absence of God"...that sounds a lot like my mom....are you by chance a Jehovah's witness?She was until I became a teenager, but she still believes a lot of the stuff they do.
I am open to possibilities,I don't believe I know everything.But certainly no religion I've ever been exposed to or learned about has in any way convinced me of the existence of a god.And who is to say, if there were a god, it would be just one?Why not several?Who is to say the Greeks may not have had it right? 
Many creationists attack evolution and the big bang, saying it states something just came out of nothing(which it doesn't, it just offers an idea of how THIS universe may have come about),and yet they expect us to believe the exact same thing about a creator.Where did this creator come from?Who created the creator? If you attempt to ask these questions, you're told in hushed tones not to question the Lord....and that's one big way in which religion loses me. It doesn't want to offer proof or explanation,it requires you to embrace blind faith.
Science offers suggestions, and then attempts to disprove them in order to eliminate those that cannot stand up to scrutiny.It encourages people to ask questions,to learn rather than blindly accept what they are told.If there is no real proof of something,it either means the evidence to support it has not been discovered yet,or that it is false.I like that,because I know no one is attempting to pull the wool over my eyes.
As for the afterlife, I have no proof of it, so I'm not going to get my hopes up.I'm going to live like I don't have an afterlife to look forward to. And even if I'm right,it's not like I'll ever be totally gone,because I will decay and return back to the earth to be reused as the components or nutrients for some other organism...and that's good to know. If there's something more,that's a bonus.


Babs34 said:


> *Ok, I'm trying to catch up on these posts, but will backtrack later.*
> *I have no problem with you being your own god Stoney. That's a right we all as human beings have..or at least SHOULD have.*
> *I believe in God and believe I am somewhat a master of my own destiny.*
> *You should look to yourself to find answers. I do. See how we're not so different thus far?*
> ...


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

DIAGORAS said:


> I can definitely relate,  +rep
> 
> I see none of the sheep replied, the truth can have a nasty sting.


 

*You want my take on this video?* 
*OK, I will do the best I can with limited capabilities tonight, as I am extremely tired and stressed out. I hope for now, it will suffice. I just can't get too deep with it at the moment, but know I could get deep with this, LOL.*

*My mind went in a million directions as this guy spoke. Yeah, of course, I get it....imagine that.*

*You misunderstood my earlier stance with not easily being mesmerized with science. I am so easily taken in for fleeting moments with it's intricate details and sporadic chain of events.*
*The beauty alone of watching a MJ plant grow from seed to beautiful bud astounds me. I will stare at my plants for hours alone daily while flowering, LOL. When I look at nature alone, my mind is on an eternal drift.*

*As I watched this, I was taken to a place of the womb. What a spectacular creation we are. The developing fetus is an astounding chain of events. You never know just how much so until you are a woman who carries full-term and nurtures from thereon.*
*It then led me to think of how the fetus recoils during the aborting process. There is a point during gestation where all the faculties have reached a point of "just so" whereas the fetus actually FEELS the pain as the forceps are being applied to crush their skull. The fetus will, as a protective response, literally recoil. *
*I can't help but do the same while in that train of thought.*
*I am so against abortion, simply because so very many years ago, I watched a video of the actual fetus response while being "chopped." It is a vile display of human ignorance.*
*Do I feel it is a woman's choice still? Yes. And I will just leave that there.*

*In the beginning, I stated reality itself is too hard to believe on a human level.*
*Knowing that, what are we, but human?.........capable of fallacy after fallacy, yet expected to learn from it all....and to take upon the next step within reach.*
*Yet, it is my personal opinion, that step within reach, is INFINITE. Our human minds will always make us pause in amazement. Some will question further while others will strive at full-force to the next dimension.*
*The one amazed takes time to reflect more deeply on the complexity, yet the simplicity of it all... while the scientist, sees it as his next quest for the most basic answer.*
*I have had a dream for many years now that has me strapped with turmoil.*
*I always awaken at the end, while forgetting immediately everything dreamt prior to. There is this defined mathematical equation that is pictured as art in a complexity I could not describe. Every last time I have had this dream, I become so disgusted with myself that I did not take notes....I even left a notebook and pen by my side. Most often, I was just all too tired and it would have been virtually impossible for me to fully awaken to take on that task.*
*There's something about that dream that is "key" though.......and I'll just shut it on that note.*
*This guy on the video is stating that everything "fits"....and all the answers are but a few books away. That's where I just shut down and no longer take it seriously.*
*My thoughts run so much more deeply than that. You don't get that. You see it as simplicity at best and stupidity at its medium. My mind works a million miles per minute and leaves me unable to even converse so often. I can't even keep up with what is seen. I've learned to not even attempt to "keep up" any longer.*
*The human mind is just not designed to take in and absorb at full force the extrinsic value of "it" ALL.*
*Could you even imagine man using 100% of their intellect value? Think long and hard on that one.*
*See, I truly can. I have. *
*It is a point where man will fail itself moreso than bring answers....simply because the mind is oh so powerful, and with that power, comes greed. The greed brings evil upon themselves and the world.*
*You ask me what I feel.........mere words cannot even begin to touch the surface. Go beyond those words, there lies my faith, which in and of itself, is not defined by Webster's.*
*The example of the car with the complexities of all of it's combined elements that make it complete is too simplex an example when comparing to "life."*
*Years ago, I knew this man who was unable to read, yet he was able to figure out whatever it was that was wrong with your car, despite the make/model. I sat so many times with so many of my cars and watched him work on them. Was I interested in mechanics per say? Was my goal to go into the field? LOL, hell no. But it was a realm I wished to, at minimum, embark upon....if even on a "retarded" level.*
*Hey, I took a carburetor apart and put it back together. That should say "something." *
*"But"......was that my forte? Nope.*
*We, as humans, are all supposed to learn from one another---on unlimited levels, but at the "right" speed.*
*I honestly don't see one human as being so significantly more important than the next. We are all but pieces of the puzzle........and it will never be anything short of a puzzle. At minimum, there will always be that missing piece......whether it was the piece stuck to our shoe that we carried outside never to be found---or the one we just can't see.*
*Life, to me, is a never ending boundary in the flesh. The wise question to ask is.......will it lead me and mankind to the ultimate dream--as man knows the capacity of dreaming to be?*
*I know that answer to be something of a varying circumstance from yours and others.*
*I have with depth lived, dreamed and otherwise reached for an extension of this vision we call life. I don't have "the" answers, nor do I have "the" proof.*
*Although, if it came right down to it, I could, IN FACT, prove science to be SO far from even being remotely exact.*
*I have experienced miracles that science would be alluded by. To date, they would positively have no answer....their best hypothesis at hand would be "faith."*
* Am I claiming myself superior for having had this experience? No way!!!*
*.....more down to earth--so to speak?*
*Yes, quite possibly that simple.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> "Hell is the absence of God"...that sounds a lot like my mom....are you by chance a Jehovah's witness?She was until I became a teenager, but she still believes a lot of the stuff they do.
> I am open to possibilities,I don't believe I know everything.But certainly no religion I've ever been exposed to or learned about has in any way convinced me of the existence of a god.And who is to say, if there were a god, it would be just one?Why not several?Who is to say the Greeks may not have had it right?
> Many creationists attack evolution and the big bang, saying it states something just came out of nothing(which it doesn't, it just offers an idea of how THIS universe may have come about),and yet they expect us to believe the exact same thing about a creator.Where did this creator come from?Who created the creator? If you attempt to ask these questions, you're told in hushed tones not to question the Lord....and that's one big way in which religion loses me. It doesn't want to offer proof or explanation,it requires you to embrace blind faith.
> Science offers suggestions, and then attempts to disprove them in order to eliminate those that cannot stand up to scrutiny.It encourages people to ask questions,to learn rather than blindly accept what they are told.If there is no real proof of something,it either means the evidence to support it has not been discovered yet,or that it is false.I like that,because I know no one is attempting to pull the wool over my eyes.
> As for the afterlife, I have no proof of it, so I'm not going to get my hopes up.I'm going to live like I don't have an afterlife to look forward to. And even if I'm right,it's not like I'll ever be totally gone,because I will decay and return back to the earth to be reused as the components or nutrients for some other organism...and that's good to know. If there's something more,that's a bonus.


 *LOL, raised a Jehovahs witness? NO, but I did know this guy in high school who was relentlessly teased for being one. I had a fondness in my heart for the guy, what can I say?*
*I have no proof to offer you Stoney. I can not place before you even an ideal of "one" god. I still don't know why that in particular should be a line of your questioning..*
*I suppose to me it only is logical that there are not so many "heads" up there making sane decisions, as we, mankind, are all examples of that relevancy belonging to "the ideal."*
*My opinion is that if you live life like there is no tomorrow, that you miss out on what is the BIGGER picture.*
*I have no desire to define that in detail why it SHOULD take precedence upon any human soul, I only know what I know......and I know I am not delusional.*
*If you think about it, people didn't even believe us capable of having cars not too long ago....of traveling to the moon, let alone shooting rockets at the moon to find water. *
*I'm young, and it was in my lifetime that having more than one TV (black and white) in the household was considered being rich....and than along comes the cordless phone, the cell, the computer and all of its endless elements now present in the common household.*
*Time will take man places untold.*
*That's my point.*
*We evolved. We continue to evolve.*
*At what price I ask? Should it not be obvious that we are at stake of destruction as the human race is known to be?*
*Are we going to evolve with our intelligence that takes us to another dimension where we are living under the sea and past Pluto? *
*Maybe.*
*I plainly see this to be what it just is......intelligent design.*
*I see no "reason" in defining it in its entirety. I only see purpose.*
*The logic is in living...in being in touch with truth. The truth comes from within. Within is an entirely different defintion altogether.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> But which two does he pick?
> It's a tough call between you, Babs, and Brazko.


 

*Me, ME, ME Morgan.......I'll die having balls, regardless of the female genitalia. *


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> A trifecta of nuts..


 *"Ur" jus the cream on the cake....a bit bitter to the taste, but the icing no less.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> What the fuck is this?! Some kind of new tactic? Get the believer to start laughing at our funny jokes, lulling him into a false scene of security?
> 
> I don't trust you.


 *ROFLLLLLLL.........I warned you, dare not to have a personality, hehe.*


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## potsmokinbasturd (Oct 24, 2009)

Well to me atheism means you dont believe in God, hey it doesnt bother me what you believe, you probably believe in the Big Bang theory also. Ya thats a good theary, Ill tell you what. You go get the most dynamite or explosive you can get and then blow it up. If the explosion results in a timex watch then I will agree there is no God and that life in all its complexity was made by a big friggin bang. No it doesnt bother me if there are stupid people on the earth either . They can believe or NOT believe anything they want.


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## Babs34 (Oct 24, 2009)

Rational people rock* 



*Not all atheists are rationalist. But all rationalists are atheists. 

*....oh well, so much for science. *


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 24, 2009)

Well, I think you and I are a good example that not everyone arrives at the same conclusion when presented with the same story. What I believe isn't necessarily what others believe,but I know what I think makes sense.And I like to have tangible evidence.So when I look at the universe that I can personally observe,nothing jumps out as "intelligent design" to me. And even if I'm wrong,I can't see myself worshiping a creator who demands undying loyalty when he has shown no concern for his creations,who will condemn those creations he supposedly loves as children to eternal punishment for meaningless infractions and major crimes without discrimination,telling us in one breath we have free will and then smiting us for exercising it.
I have no need for such a diety,and by his inaction and indifference if he does exist,he has proven himself to be either A.fallible and not omnipotent or B.Omnipotent, but cruel. That's my take, the "truth" I feel from within. In the matter of faith, truth is subjective.
Yes, all things are possible.But are they probable? Nobody will know for sure until we see it for ourselves.Or not.


Babs34 said:


> *LOL, raised a Jehovahs witness? NO, but I did know this guy in high school who was relentlessly teased for being one. I had a fondness in my heart for the guy, what can I say?*
> *I have no proof to offer you Stoney. I can not place before you even an ideal of "one" god. I still don't know why that in particular should be a line of your questioning..*
> *I suppose to me it only is logical that there are not so many "heads" up there making sane decisions, as we, mankind, are all examples of that relevancy belonging to "the ideal."*
> *My opinion is that if you live life like there is no tomorrow, that you miss out on what is the BIGGER picture.*
> ...


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## Twiz420 (Oct 25, 2009)

potsmokinbasturd said:


> Ya thats a good theary, Ill tell you what. You go get the most dynamite or explosive you can get and then blow it up. If the explosion results in a timex watch then I will agree there is no God and that life in all its complexity was made by a big friggin bang.


If that explosion resulted in a watch I would believe in "god" no scientific theory do they mention solid complex things like watches being created from explosions. The big bang "theory" (which is fact by the way whether or not "god" exists) basically says everything already existed, just smaller than an atom. The explosion merely dispersed these building blocks throughout our known universe and the laws of physics took over. Billions of years later here we are, no almighty creator. Leading scientist believe this and some still believe in "god", but they also know that even if "god" exists the world as we know it was not created in 7 days, nor was man kind created in a poof of magical miracleness. I find it completely hilarious the believers still deny scientific facts like evolution, but I can understand why they choose not to believe in science; Ignorance is bliss.


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## Babs34 (Oct 25, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Well, I think you and I are a good example that not everyone arrives at the same conclusion when presented with the same story. What I believe isn't necessarily what others believe,but I know what I think makes sense.And I like to have tangible evidence.So when I look at the universe that I can personally observe,nothing jumps out as "intelligent design" to me. And even if I'm wrong,I can't see myself worshiping a creator who demands undying loyalty when he has shown no concern for his creations,who will condemn those creations he supposedly loves as children to eternal punishment for meaningless infractions and major crimes without discrimination,telling us in one breath we have free will and then smiting us for exercising it.
> I have no need for such a diety,and by his inaction and indifference if he does exist,he has proven himself to be either A.fallible and not omnipotent or B.Omnipotent, but cruel. That's my take, the "truth" I feel from within. In the matter of faith, truth is subjective.
> Yes, all things are possible.But are they probable? Nobody will know for sure until we see it for ourselves.Or not.


 

*I don't think that you and I were presented with the same story.*
*See Stoney, the "story" I was presented with came from the soul.*
*Thinking back, I am not really sure I even gave any real signigicant belief in God in my youth.*
*It was when I was 16 and lifeguarding at a pool (that was never even in need of a life guard) that I dared to TEST God......and He gave me more than ample proof of His existence.*
*I received the tangible evidence, make no mistake about that.*
*The words "intelligent design" don't appeal to me at all either........that's science, undefined of course.*
*I don't see God as being the slightest bit unconcerned for his creations.*
*The free will given us all is just that......to do with whatever we see fit.*
*I only see the world as being allowed to exist "as is" with supreme reason........the most important being His need to have us love Him wholeheartedly, with reason.*
*If the world had been created for "perfection" as man deems perfect, we would be nothing more than genetically inclined robots...no choice, no reason.*
**


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## potsmokinbasturd (Oct 25, 2009)

Twiz420 said:


> If that explosion resulted in a watch I would believe in "god" no scientific theory do they mention solid complex things like watches being created from explosions. The big bang "theory" (which is fact by the way whether or not "god" exists) basically says everything already existed, just smaller than an atom. The explosion merely dispersed these building blocks throughout our known universe and the laws of physics took over. Billions of years later here we are, no almighty creator. Leading scientist believe this and some still believe in "god", but they also know that even if "god" exists the world as we know it was not created in 7 days, nor was man kind created in a poof of magical miracleness. I find it completely hilarious the believers still deny scientific facts like evolution, but I can understand why they choose not to believe in science; Ignorance is bliss.


 
You are very intelligent but you are not very wise.


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## potsmokinbasturd (Oct 25, 2009)

A simple reason to at least try and believe in God is that without a God your life has no purpose or meaning. Your uniqness means nothing. And even an intelligent man such as yourself would admit that he is not 100% sure of Gods existence or non existence. So if your as smart as I think you are you will ask Jesus to forgive you for your beliefs and that you will keep on believeing in what you want. Then maybe God will show Himself to you in sum way. Peace out dude .


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## PadawanBater (Oct 25, 2009)

potsmokinbasturd said:


> A simple reason to at least try and believe in God is that without a God your life has no purpose or meaning. Your uniqness means nothing. And even an intelligent man such as yourself would admit that he is not 100% sure of Gods existence or non existence. So if your as smart as I think you are you will ask Jesus to forgive you for your beliefs and that you will keep on believeing in what you want. Then maybe God will show Himself to you in sum way. Peace out dude .


 
First, there is no such thing as "trying to believe"... please explain to me how one would "try to believe" in anything exactly. You either believe or you don't. There is no choice at all in the equation. Whether I _believe _gravity exists or not, I'll still fall to my death if I decide to walk off a building. The evidence is there, regarding God, gods, or any of the religions *ever *presented to mankind via mankinds ancient imagination (except for Scientology of course!), which is, the absense of any. I have nothing to examine to determine the validity of any such things. None. How could I possibly make a choice to believe, even if beliefs _were _based on choices to begin with... which they aren't?... 

That's the thing you guys don't get. I'm not actively _choosing_ *not *to believe in a God, I simply have not seen enough evidence for my mind to make up it's own decision whether or not it accepts these ideas as actual truth of reality or just some other imaginary idea... No different than Santa Claus, no different than the Easter Bunny... no different than Thor, or Zeus. You can at least understand that much right? Think about all the other gods you don't believe in.. then apply your own personal reasoning and logic behind why you do not accept them as real to the God you _do._ That is the reasoning of an atheist. 

I certainly beg to differ with your statement that without God there is no purpose or meaning. Meaning and purpose are both subjective. You have your own purpose, you make your own meaning. Your purpose is not the same as my purpose as we are not the same individual. That is perfectly acceptable. Religion tries to tell everyone that they all have the same meaning and purpose. I find something disturbing about that. The robot, follower mentality is disturbing. 

Life becomes much more enjoyable and beautiful looking through an atheists eyes, I can assure you. 


Here's some eye candy for my atheist friends! 

Did dinosaurs live with human beings? - as asked by a creationist (or the best Poe *thanks Morgen* I've ever seen in my life!) 

Also, Babs, Miui... this is what religion does to someones mind;

[youtube]Du-gr-t8GzA[/youtube]


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## potsmokinbasturd (Oct 25, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> First, there is no such thing as "trying to believe"... please explain to me how one would "try to believe" in anything exactly. You either believe or you don't. There is no choice at all in the equation. Whether I _believe _gravity exists or not, I'll still fall to my death if I decide to walk off a building. The evidence is there, regarding God, gods, or any of the religions *ever *presented to mankind via mankinds ancient imagination (except for Scientology of course!), which is, the absense of any. I have nothing to examine to determine the validity of any such things. None. How could I possibly make a choice to believe, even if beliefs _were _based on choices to begin with... which they aren't?...
> 
> That's the thing you guys don't get. I'm not actively _choosing_ *not *to believe in a God, I simply have not seen enough evidence for my mind to make up it's own decision whether or not it accepts these ideas as actual truth of reality or just some other imaginary idea... No different than Santa Claus, no different than the Easter Bunny... no different than Thor, or Zeus. You can at least understand that much right? Think about all the other gods you don't believe in.. then apply your own personal reasoning and logic behind why you do not accept them as real to the God you _do._ That is the reasoning of an atheist.
> 
> ...


 
Well Dinosaurs existed before humans were created. Im not a preacher so Im not trying to convince you. I just wish every 1 would cover their bases just in case Hell is a real place which unfortanately if God exist some kinda hell has to be real. Like I said you can believe what you want but just dont start putting down religion(which Im against) like sum atheiest and leave the word God in the constitution and other things which are part of our history. Believe it or not most Christians just want to help you they arent trying to turn you into a religious robot. lol By the way how did ya like my plant ?? Pretty friggin awesome. God created that 2. heeeeeeeeeee


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## OregonMeds (Oct 25, 2009)

"Believe it or not most Christians just want to help you they arent trying to turn you into a religious robot."

Public policy is affected, all our lives are affected, laws are in place which prey on those who defy morals which came from fucking cristians "morals" or "whatever".

Fuckers...


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## CrackerJax (Oct 25, 2009)

[youtube]4AuCWuZPvvY[/youtube]


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## Twiz420 (Oct 25, 2009)

potsmokinbasturd said:


> A simple reason to at least try and believe in God is that without a God your life has no purpose or meaning. Your uniqness means nothing. And even an intelligent man such as yourself would admit that he is not 100% sure of Gods existence or non existence. So if your as smart as I think you are you will ask Jesus to forgive you for your beliefs and that you will keep on believeing in what you want. Then maybe God will show Himself to you in sum way. Peace out dude .


I believed in "god" when I was a kid just as much I did the Easter Bunny and Santa, Like many other youth I started to question gods existence during my teen years. From my understanding near death experiences bring you closer to "god" and even make believers out of non believers. Yet when I died for the first time in my life for two minutes, I saw no light got no message from any one or anything. In fact its almost completely impossible for me to explain what it was like to die. All I can tell you that it is non existence, you feel nothing no pain, no torture, no happiness, no bliss. You think nothing, you see nothing, you hear and taste nothing. This experience completely confirmed for me that there is no afterlife and when its done its done. I was not revived due to some miracle of "god", but I was by a nice doctor in my local hospital. I believe that there really is no true purpose for the existence of life, It's just a result of chemical reactions in our universe, reactions that can and have been recreated here on earth. I am content with having no purpose here, it makes me feel more at peace with the world, and this lets me live my life the way I want. I don't have to follow society along any of the narrow paths it has created, I can make my own. The future of my life is mine and it isn't laid out already by some "god". I am not one who says people shouldn't believe in "god", because I know not everyone can understand or comprehend what I know and believe. I think many people should keep believing because it gives them the peace they deserve in life, and helps comfort them in bad times and when it's time to die. I say there is no purpose or reason for life to exist, but that doesn't make it meaningless, life is what you make of it and nothing more. So if you live your life the way you want, then your life did mean something, to you and those who loved you.


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## morgentaler (Oct 25, 2009)

potsmokinbasturd said:


> Well to me atheism means you dont believe in God, hey it doesnt bother me what you believe, you probably believe in the Big Bang theory also. Ya thats a good theary, Ill tell you what. You go get the most dynamite or explosive you can get and then blow it up. If the explosion results in a timex watch then I will agree there is no God and that life in all its complexity was made by a big friggin bang. No it doesnt bother me if there are stupid people on the earth either . They can believe or NOT believe anything they want.


Wow, that was so stupid you're either making a joke or have no education.


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## morgentaler (Oct 25, 2009)

So what is this special purpose or meaning?

Here's some things to consider:

How many diseases have been cured by religion?
How many people has religion put on the moon?
What technological advances has religion provided that allow you to sit at your computer and say that there is no meaning without God, instead of scrabbling around in a field looking for grubs and berries?
Apparently someone else felt there was purpose in learning something about the world and improving the plight of people instead of looking at scripture and saying "Here's all the answers."

Life is for living. If you need a god or scripture to make it worth something, you're not doing it right.





potsmokinbasturd said:


> A simple reason to at least try and believe in God is that without a God your life has no purpose or meaning. Your uniqness means nothing. And even an intelligent man such as yourself would admit that he is not 100% sure of Gods existence or non existence. So if your as smart as I think you are you will ask Jesus to forgive you for your beliefs and that you will keep on believeing in what you want. Then maybe God will show Himself to you in sum way. Peace out dude .


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## CrackerJax (Oct 25, 2009)

Religion holds us back .. pure and simple.


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## OregonMeds (Oct 25, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Wow, that was so stupid you're either making a joke or have no education.


I don't think it was a joke so...


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## morgentaler (Oct 25, 2009)

Nothing like a good, old-fashioned bible-burning get together!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569121,00.html


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## morgentaler (Oct 25, 2009)

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=192282495574

When atheists are DDOSed by Xians, what's the best response?

DDOS back. Spam the hell out of "God".


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## CrackerJax (Oct 25, 2009)

Well, I gotta give credit where credit is due..... only in North Carolina do they still insist on having a book burning WITH a BBQ dinner. Classic stuff!!  A social event!!


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## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

The next time someone says "Nobody REALLY believes in angels..."
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/survey-results-religious-beliefs

It's cute how for 2000 years each generation has expected Jesus to come for them in their lifetime.
100 generations later, and they're still sucking it up.

If anyone has the link to the survey on rapture belief I'd like to see it. There's an inordinate amount of crap to search through looking for rapture stuff on Google.
If I remember correctly 40% of americans expect the rapture to occur within the next few years and are looking forward to it.
Imagine 40% of your neighbors wishing death and destruction on many of the people they know just so they can snuggle up to Jesus. Assholes.

Ipsos also had a poll a few years ago where a significant number of people believed that Jesus was coming in 2007. He didn't.
So check again. Oh he's certainly coming in 2008. Oh damn, wrong again.
Well, we're positive he's coming in 2009! That's great folks. You've only got two more months to be shown once again, that your beliefs are ridiculous and unreasonable. Patently more so than the generational believers, even.

Though when two ideas are irrational, is one *more* irrational than the other?


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

Jesus gave every indication that he would return soon. One of the reasons why the whole thing fell apart after he died (if he ever existed at all that is).... All of the Apostles thought it would happen in their lifetimes... wrong wrong wrong.... and still wrong.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Oct 26, 2009)

potsmokinbasturd said:


> Well Dinosaurs existed before humans were created. Im not a preacher so Im not trying to convince you. I just wish every 1 would cover their bases just in case Hell is a real place which unfortanately if God exist some kinda hell has to be real.


Faith that serves solely as fire insurance appears a tad shallow to me. No thanks.


potsmokinbasturd said:


> Like I said you can believe what you want but just dont start putting down religion(which Im against) like sum atheiest and leave the word God in the constitution and other things which are part of our history.


Religion has been the source of conflict, wars, inequality, torture, slavery, and avarice since time immemorial. If anything is worthy of scorn it is religion.

Please tell me where the word 'god' appears in the U.S. Constitution. This I gotta see.


potsmokinbasturd said:


> Believe it or not most Christians just want to help you they arent trying to turn you into a religious robot.


That statement is highly debatable. I could counter by stating that Christians just want to help themselves and each other. Evangelicals, you know. How is me parting with 10% of my income helping me? Does it go into a tax-free fund I can draw off of when I retire?

You mention Christians but you neglect other world religions in this statement. Are only Christians going to heaven?


potsmokinbasturd said:


> lol By the way how did ya like my plant ?? Pretty friggin awesome. God created that 2. heeeeeeeeeee


Savory plant, Dude. But god did not create it, nature did. Rather, nature did - but you get the assist. 

There is actual evidence that nature exists.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

Fire insurance is bad enough. The scary ones want to burn it all now so they can collect.


----------



## MexicanWarlord420 (Oct 26, 2009)

[youtube]YqC73omSk4o[/youtube]


----------



## OregonMeds (Oct 26, 2009)

"if God exist some kinda hell has to be real."


wow...

Yes that stands to reason, what supreme being wouldn't have a thing for everlasting turture. We only have things like boxing and UFC for brutal entertainment but he likes to watch crazier shit.


----------



## Mauihund (Oct 26, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> "if God exist some kinda hell has to be real."
> 
> Yes that stands to reason, what supreme being wouldn't have a thing for everlasting torture.


The same kind of God who wouldn't have a problem giving all his creation more than we had back in the garden. And an enjoyable, strenghtening reason to avoid such a situation. 

He hasn't left us. Always been there. If you want release from the burden of things that can drag you to that place, He is more than gracious to accept anyone. Not my words, His.


----------



## krustofskie (Oct 26, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> Not my words, His.


Not his words but the words of men claiming it to be the words of god.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

The same kind of god that would create the eye with a blind spot? That would create diseases which do irreparable harm, or DNA which is prone to transcription errors which result in genetic defects?

Doesn't sound like a perfect god. So why worship an imperfect one?


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## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

Just in case anyone suddenly feels overwhelmed with 'the spirit' and has to go through the agonizing process of selecting a new faith.


----------



## sunshine17542 (Oct 26, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> The same kind of god that would create the eye with a blind spot? That would create diseases which do irreparable harm, or DNA which is prone to transcription errors which result in genetic defects?
> 
> Doesn't sound like a perfect god. So why worship an imperfect one?


How would your world, your "creation" be better?


----------



## sunshine17542 (Oct 26, 2009)

I want mercy from the atheists


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## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

only religion condemns. no mercy is necessary from atheism.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> How would your world, your "creation" be better?


It doesn't need to be better. Someone just needs to stop giving credit where no credit is due.


----------



## sunshine17542 (Oct 26, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> It doesn't need to be better. Someone just needs to stop giving credit where no credit is due.


Yes so this world is perfect.


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

It's not perfect ... it never was ... it never will be...


----------



## sunshine17542 (Oct 26, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> It's not perfect ... it never was ... it never will be...


I'm looking at the world that God created, not man.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

If your god was perfect he wouldn't have created it with flaws.

The world doesn't need to be perfect, but why would a perfect creator intentionally design flaws into his creations?

Is malevolence perfect?


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

No creation by a G*D is in evidence....


----------



## sunshine17542 (Oct 26, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> If your god was perfect he wouldn't have created it with flaws.
> 
> The world doesn't need to be perfect, but why would a perfect creator intentionally design flaws into his creations?
> 
> Is malevolence perfect?


There is a balance to everything.


----------



## sunshine17542 (Oct 26, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> No creation by a G*D is in evidence....


lol okay CrackerJax now your just being like Sonic pulling on Tails


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

Should I worship Sonic then?


----------



## sunshine17542 (Oct 26, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Should I worship Sonic then?


It seems to me that you know of nothing.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

It seems to us that you worship nothing.
Is that your balance?


----------



## PadawanBater (Oct 26, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> lol okay CrackerJax now your just being like Sonic pulling on Tails


 
Dude, you and your one liners are getting you nowhere. 

What is the purpose of posting things like "God is Good" or "God is Happiness" or whatever the fuck else? Hoenstly... 

Think about who you are talking to. You must know you have to come with more than that. 

Explain to me what God is, in normal coherent english, with sentence structure and grammar, please! Is that really too much to ask? Why can you not do this one simple task? 

After that, explain to me what Heaven and Hell are.

After that, how you know these things, keep in mind, *clear sentences, nothing vague, everything specific*. Don't say things that cannot be verified. Don't base conclusions off of feelings and emotions, or lack of information. 

You and Braz are the kings of doing that. If there is one thing Maui has going for him, at least the guy uses clear sentences and correct grammar... I know what he means when he posts something, for the most part. 

Almost every post you've made, it's just vague one liners that can be interpreted in many different ways, which I believe is on purpose on your part as to confuse your actual positions.

So go for it, answer those questions for me, will ya?

And one final question after that, ask yourself why your idea of what "God" "Heaven" and "Hell" is doesn't match up with Babs', Maui's, or Brazko's... isn't that a bit strange since you all claim to follow the same God and same doctrine? (as confirmed by Braz's post a few pages back, and then Maui's followup response to that post)


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## krustofskie (Oct 26, 2009)

He's fucking with us.


----------



## sunshine17542 (Oct 26, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Dude, you and your one liners are getting you nowhere.
> 
> What is the purpose of posting things like "God is Good" or "God is Happiness" or whatever the fuck else? Hoenstly...
> 
> ...


God is life. I don't know what heaven and hell are. I could guess that hell is the absence of God and heaven is being one with God. I'm not sure why my idea of God doesn't match up with other people, but that is understandable. God is knowledge you have to learn. I'm sorry for the short sentence. I know that my one liners get me no where, but I am not looking to get anywhere. I don't post short things to confuse people. I just try and make it simple.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Oct 26, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Should I worship Sonic then?


Mmmm... Cherry Limeade.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

Mmmmm. Sacrilicious.


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)




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## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

*Sunshine, take this for what it's worth.*
*I'm sure you mean well, but the goal here is to tear you apart, piece by piece. Mocking is the name of the game.*
*It's all a game....at least, to them.*
*Live and learn. God Bless. *


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> only religion condemns. no mercy is necessary from atheism.


 *Yeah, I noticed. Your sweet demeanor shines through. *


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)




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## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

*..nice double post. *
*How is it that no matter WHAT thread I post on, you are only literal seconds behind me.*
*.....damn, get a life.*


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

I have advanced powers and can post in at least 4 threads at the same time.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

*woohoo C*J......and you can give random negative reps too, you da man. *


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

Still confused on the rep system? I'm not at all surprised....


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Still confused on the rep system? I'm not at all surprised....


*You're just confused, period.*
*And you now attempt to confuse any who may read this.*
*YES, c*j will neg rep any who choose not to follow his omnipotent knowledge.*
*LOL, now ask me if I give a shit.*
*CJ.......quit posting to me.*
*You've wasted enough of my time.*


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

Everyone tried to explain it to you, but ur too dense.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

*you call "me" dense?
You're just confused, period.
And you now attempt to confuse any who may read this.
YES, c*j will neg rep any who choose not to follow his omnipotent knowledge.
LOL, now ask me if I give a shit.
CJ.......quit posting to me.
You've wasted enough of my time.*


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

Damn CJ, that one neg rep you gave her must have had a hell of an effect.
I have just under 1/3 the post count she does and a whole level more rep.
You monster!


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

Everyone kows the story Babs... ur not fooling anyone. many ppl tried to explain it to you. Then you demanded proof. Proof was given. 

I can see why ur religious. Logic is too much for you.


Morgentaler..... are u ready?


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

*That Morgan, would be because you stick with your atheist buddies like glue.*
*The ONLY people who have ever neg rep'd me are ATHEISTS....congrats......emphasis on the rats, LOL.*
*...and lmao on the entirely ridiculous notion that my "rep" is suddenly somehow destroyed.*
*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

You bring it all on urself. So sure when everyone clearly sees ur wrong.

Being vitriolic is not going to help.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

Being vitriolic is not going to help. 

*bingo, that was precisely my point.*
*You are so astute.*


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## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

*"everyone".....or just your atheist buddies. You know no truth.*
*The End.*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

You obviously don't know what it means then (vitriolic).


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## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

Babs, you really don't get the rep system at all did you, despite your raving you don't appear to have looked into it at all.

"Ganging together" does no good. You have to rep a ton of people before you have the ability to rep someone again. The majority of rep I'm getting is from people I've yet to even converse with on here, which is pretty cool since at first glance it seems like only the small group of us are reading. But there are others, and they definitely have opinions, if not voices.


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## krustofskie (Oct 26, 2009)

Wow, what a surprise. Another thread turning into the personal arena for CJ and Babs to have a lovers tiff, you both need to get a room and get it over with,


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## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> You obviously don't know what it means then (vitriolic).


 *I know exactly what it means smartass..I have an excellent vocabulary.*
*Quit being it......and quit posting to me. YOU WASTE MY TIME.*


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## morgentaler (Oct 26, 2009)

I keep picturing her standing over your bed with a sledgehammer saying "Relax CJ, I'm your number one fan."

Someone get that cockadoodie image of Kathy Bates out of my head!


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## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

krustofskie said:


> Wow, what a surprise. Another thread turning into the personal arena for CJ and Babs to have a lovers tiff, you both need to get a room and get it over with,


 *Nah Krustofskie, I just really don't want him to post to me....period.*
*I've said it enough times now. He is a waste of my time.*
*I take medicine for the pain I have and using my hands to waste that effort on him is worthless.......no worth in one-liner comebacks for the soul purpose of building his ego. *


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## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I keep picturing her standing over your bed with a sledgehammer saying "Relax CJ, I'm your number one fan."
> 
> Someone get that cockadoodie image of Kathy Bates out of my head!


 ...alright, I will slame it over your head instead. That should solve the problem.


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## krustofskie (Oct 26, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I keep picturing her standing over your bed with a sledgehammer saying "Relax CJ, I'm your number one fan."
> 
> Someone get that cockadoodie image of Kathy Bates out of my head!


Funny man, very funny. Though I'm sure Babs is lovely, shes is actually very reasonable but will defend her faith to the death, got give the girl some credit.


----------



## krustofskie (Oct 26, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Nah Krustofskie, I just really don't want him to post to me....period.*
> *I've said it enough times now. He is a waste of my time.*
> *I take medicine for the pain I have and using my hands to waste that effort on him is worthless.......no worth in one-liner comebacks for the soul purpose of building his ego. *


Don't let it get to girl, your on the internet. If he pisses you off just ignore him. I can tell you for sure CJ don't give a shit, he will never change his mind but he wont let anyone wind him up either, you can both be pig headed especially CJ.
In the end its all gravy.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 26, 2009)

*Hehe, Krustofskie, atheist or not, I love ya.*
*You were the only one on this thread deserving of an apology.*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 26, 2009)

Everything I post by definition is a promise.


----------



## PadawanBater (Oct 27, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *You're just confused, period.*
> *And you now attempt to confuse any who may read this.*
> *YES, c*j will neg rep any who choose not to follow his omnipotent knowledge.*
> *LOL, now ask me if I give a shit.*
> ...


Clearly you do, otherwise *you* would stop bringing it up. 

I think you are *obsessed* with the rep system, and further *obsessed* that CJ's had the audacity to actually give you a *well deserved *neg rep. If it were me, you'd have gotten a lot more, especially since you *refuse* to let it go. 

Stop making pointless posts just to raise your post count. If you don't have any substance to actually add to the atheist thread, simply GTFO, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out... Yeah, that sure seems like we're all here to "tear you apart" huh Babs...


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## CrackerJax (Oct 27, 2009)

Ok Paddy, you fake left... Mort... you stack up the middle with Krust and I'm throwing long for Jesuzzzz!!!!


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## PadawanBater (Oct 27, 2009)

Babs
Brazko
Maui

--------

CrackerJax
Morgen
Krustof
Padawan
JohnnyO

Can I get an observer to tell me which side appears to be more logical?


----------



## OregonMeds (Oct 27, 2009)




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## Snickelfrits (Oct 27, 2009)

well put broseph


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 27, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Clearly you do, otherwise *you* would stop bringing it up.
> 
> I think you are *obsessed* with the rep system, and further *obsessed* that CJ's had the audacity to actually give you a *well deserved *neg rep. If it were me, you'd have gotten a lot more, especially since you *refuse* to let it go.
> 
> Stop making pointless posts just to raise your post count. If you don't have any substance to actually add to the atheist thread, simply GTFO, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out... Yeah, that sure seems like we're all here to "tear you apart" huh Babs...


*Obviously needs a repeat--FROM A BELIEVERS THREAD.....imagine that. P, get a life. Neg rep me all damn day long, I ASSURE you it will NOT phase me. *
*......and just one last thing. I really don't know who is worse between you and C*J.

You basically demand that Braz apologize to you, "because" he for ONCE said something facetious in response to your many NUMEROUS tirades.

Along comes C*J demanding an apology for my thinking it was him who neg-rep'd. Funny how it happened only seconds after insulting him with the word "faith." CJ doesn't like that I can dish out the same kind of bs he can.
He actually DEMANDED that I apologize, OR ELSE.
WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

I'm done with you both. Not only a waste of my time, but insulting to my very being.......GET LOST. 
*


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 27, 2009)

It's too bad you never apologized for the initial claims that you made that he did it *without any evidence*.

See, I sent a private message to him saying that if you retracted your accusations (either before or after he provided you with proof) I would give you positive rep to counter the damage you felt had been done.

You didn't do it in either timeline, so what would have amounted to a zero state chance if I had countered it, stacked up even more.

Too bad. You need to learn how important evidence is in this world.

I would hope you are never on a jury.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 27, 2009)

_* I would hope you are never on a jury.

*_Man, you sure have that one right Morgen!! Can you imagine BEING in the same jury with Babs??!!  

Be like that Malcolm in the Middle episode.... but without the happy ending.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 27, 2009)

It's not being on the same jury that scares me. It's being in the defendants box.
If there is the potential for someone to decide your guilt or make a sentence recommendation based on faith rather than evidence, that corrupts the whole point of having a system of evidence in the first place.


----------



## Nocturn3 (Oct 27, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Babs
> Brazko
> Maui
> 
> ...


I've been keeping up, although I haven't had the chance to do much posting myself. I think the evidence speaks for itself as to who is the more logical group, but since evidence seems to be ignored, i will state that the "religious" side seems nonsensical, deluded, defensive, and basically bat-shit crazy. They are clawing desperately on to their fairy tales, and are unable to come to terms with the fact that life is short, death is final, and they are not at all important on a universal level, at least not in a way they can comprehend.

Sorry religious guys, but this is how I percieve your arguments so far. 

As for the humanists/rationalists, they have put forward some excellent, well thought out arguments, and some very valid questions, which have of course been ignored or brushed aside. Nevertheless, i'm sure anyone with an ounce of intelligence and logic is seeing what i am seeing in your posts. There are some truly smart people on here. Who says weed makes people dumb.


----------



## Green Cross (Oct 27, 2009)

I see the leftist blogger's are desperate to disparage others religious believes again. 

Can't you find a way to abolish human rights, without disproving "The creator" as referrenced, in the declaration of independence? 

Here are some other folks who need Jesus, because they obviously don't know the difference between right and wrong. 
Richmond High School gang rape: Cops arrest 2 in attack on Calif. teen girl; Bystanders did nothing.​ 
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/10/27/2009-10-27_richmond_high_school_gang_rape_cops_arrest_2_in_attack_on_calif_teen_girl_bystan.html#ixzz0V9tGXoMe​

In fact the bystanders were laughing. 

I wish i could be in that jury box!


----------



## MexicanWarlord420 (Oct 27, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> I see the leftist blogger's are desperate to disparage others religious believes again.
> 
> Can't you find a way to abolish human rights, without disproving "The creator" as referrenced, in the declaration of independence?
> 
> ...


We made a thread for atheists, then the bible thumpers came in trying to spread the word of Jesus which resulted in debate.
Save the right vs left shit for the politics section.
Not all liberals are "godless communists" and not all righties are bible thumping inbreeds, no your jewish zombie was not referenced in DOI. Our constitution gave us our rights, not your imaginary friend.


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## morgentaler (Oct 27, 2009)

From his portrayal, Jesus probably would have been a socialist.
But pointing that out would likely get you shot in some states.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Oct 27, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> I see the leftist blogger's are desperate to disparage others religious believes again.
> 
> Can't you find a way to abolish human rights, without disproving "The creator" as referrenced, in the declaration of independence?
> 
> ...


I'm not clear on what the article has to do with the topic. 

Were all the perpetrators & observers involved in this crime *Atheist *or* Agnostic*?

I can give *two examples* of crimes where the perpetrators were *religious nutjobs*: The cases of *Elizabeth Smart* and *Jaycee Lee Dugard*.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 27, 2009)

He's using "Remote Viewing" to establish the ideology of those involved. It's a secret handed down to only the highest level Christians in Xenu's army.

Maybe with his cosmic Christian powers he can explain why the ratio of Christians vs. Atheists in prisons is heavily skewed, with the prison population of atheists being smaller than the general population.

http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Percentage_of_atheists


----------



## PadawanBater (Oct 27, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *You basically demand that Braz apologize to you, "because" he for ONCE said something facetious in response to your many NUMEROUS tirades.*
> 
> 
> *WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?*


 
I've never "demanded" any such apology from Brazko. You completely fabricated that. (I will however ask that you either find the quote where I "demanded" an apology, or that you apologize for the accusation)

The most I've said about him is that it's a little tough to understand his posts, him and Sunshine like to keep things vague and unclear. 

Who the hell do I think I am? 

I guess I fancy myself a defender of reason and justice and eliminator of stupidity and ignorance. Does that make you my nemesis?? lol


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 27, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> I can give *two examples* of crimes where the perpetrators were *religious nutjobs*: The cases of *Elizabeth Smart* and *Jaycee Lee Dugard*.


If you went by population statistics alone, then 70% of crimes would be perpetrated by the religious (nutjobs aside).

Oddly, the percentage is much higher.

edit: had to run out for a minute. my stats are from 1997, so let me grab newer stats from the Bureau of Prisons. D'oh, the stats aren't directly available on the web site. Probably have to contact them directly.


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 27, 2009)

The deluded faithful of the almighty myth are constantly trying to wash their blood soaked hands of the past away. It's not possible though. You can't say, that was then , this is now. 

No ... who a person, or what an institution REALLY represents, is measured by what they do when they think no one is looking or when they have complete control over events around them.

In both cases, the church comes off as murderous thugs throughout history.

If the church could go back to the old ways and get away with it..... all past deeds indicate they wouldn't hesitate to start burning folks.... past deeds count against you in the present.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

The "Laws" of the internet.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/6408927/Internet-rules-and-laws-the-top-10-from-Godwin-to-Poe.html

How many have you seen in the forums lately?


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 28, 2009)

[youtube]f2tsO0LQUDk[/youtube]


----------



## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

I love Bill Maher, to bad too Many Atheists don't understand his Agnositc views.., 

They are pretty much the Same as his views on >>>>>>>>> 

Atheist Baby has no Chance at all.., Before they can even comprehend a God, they are turned into mindless sheep....., 
They are Going Down




CrackerJax said:


> [youtube]f2tsO0LQUDk[/youtube]


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 28, 2009)

Agnostic/Atheism are kissing cousins.

Religion is the crazy uncle everyone keeps locked up in the attic.


----------



## Green Cross (Oct 28, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Agnostic/Atheism are kissing cousins.
> 
> Religion is the crazy uncle everyone keeps locked up in the attic.


Athiesm is a religion of sorts. It's the root of "secular humanism" 

Have the Atheist done anything good? Name a few? Surely there must be groups of atheist making a difference (for better) in the world. 

Atheists make sport of insulting Christians, and practicing Jews, but they don't make fun of none believing Jews like bill maher. Why is that?


----------



## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Agnostic/Atheism are kissing cousins.
> 
> Religion is the crazy uncle everyone keeps locked up in the attic.


And we have Scientific proof of what happens to Kissing Cousins... I'm just Saying..

At least the Crazy uncle has his Porn.. Upstairs..


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> Atheists make sport of insulting Christians, and practicing Jews, but they don't make fun of none believing Jews like bill maher. Why is that?


You're dead wrong there. Bill Maher is a crackpot. Just because he's not religious doesn't mean he's immune to believing in other crazy stuff.

He's a big supporter of medical quackery. 

Pharyngula, a popular biological science and anti-bullshit website regularly tears him a new one, and I've seen PZ's posts generate 25,000 visits to a website in an hour or two, so there's no small number of people aware that he's not fully rational.

His take on religion just happens to be extremely rational.


----------



## PadawanBater (Oct 28, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> Athiesm is a religion of sorts. It's the root of "secular humanism"
> 
> Have the Atheist done anything good? Name a few? Surely there must be groups of atheist making a difference (for better) in the world.
> 
> Atheists make sport of insulting Christians, and practicing Jews, but they don't make fun of none believing Jews like bill maher. Why is that?


Atheism has never killed a single person in recorded history. 

Have athesits done anything good? No, nothing, not a thing. No atheists do anything good at all ever. You know being a good person is solely a religious character trait, and one cannot be moral without God telling them what's moral. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nontheists_(science_and_technology)

Because Mahar is not a practicing Jew. He knows its all bullshit. I beleive he's an athesit...


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 28, 2009)

* What Is Secular Humanism? *

Secular Humanism is a term which has come into use in the last thirty years to describe a world view with the following elements and principles: 


A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

Sounds terrible ....


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## Green Cross (Oct 28, 2009)

No list of humanitarian acts performed in the name of atheism? 

In your original post you said Atheism was "enlightening", but you have no examples of acts to back that enlightenment up?

And as to your claim that atheism hasn't caused any wars, are you unaware that the godless communists are responsible for much oppression - of the people - and many wars? 

Communism failed in Russia, and I see the Chinese being oppressed, no reason to try it here


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## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Because Mahar is not a practicing Jew. He knows its all bullshit. I beleive he's an athesit...


That's a Belief and it's not true.., he's actually claimed to be a lot of other things as well that are not Agnostic., but he has never claimed to be athease

I beweave..


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## CrackerJax (Oct 28, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> No list of humanitarian acts performed in the name of atheism?
> 
> In your original post you said Atheism was "enlightening", but you have no examples of acts to back that enlightenment up?
> 
> ...


Communism has embraced atheism, but only to destroy the entrenched religion already in place. 

Communism will use ANY tool at their disposal to achieve their goals, and atheism isn't a goal... it's a tool.


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## Babs34 (Oct 28, 2009)

Atheism 10-28-2009 09:01 AMYou wrote, "Neg rep me all damn day long, I ASSURE you it will NOT phase me." Remember now, you asked for this. Whining about it would be disingenuous
*...and it still doesn't phase me, LOL...have fun.*


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## TerrapinStation (Oct 28, 2009)

EXPERIENCED GROWER HELP! I am new to this so I'm not too sure when to harvest... I am looking for more a couch lock high. My outdoor potted plants are 4 months old. Have been flowering for about 6.5 weeks with super bloom for past month. If you could look at these pics and tell me a couple things... How much longer should I let it grow? AND can you tell what kind of strain it is ( name and I/S) Thanks! I live it Southern Cali so frost isn't a concern.

http://s873.photobucket.com/albums/a...view=slideshow


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## Green Cross (Oct 28, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Communism has embraced atheism, but only to destroy the entrenched religion already in place.
> 
> Communism will use ANY tool at their disposal to achieve their goals, and atheism isn't a goal... it's a tool.


Reps= for that 

Can you tell me if Larry David is an Atheistic Jew, or a believing Jew, and if all Jews feel that it's ok to do this sort of thing to other human beings? See below:


*Outrage du Jour: Larry David Pees on Jesus*

By Roy Edroso in Exploring the Right Wing Blogosphere, Featured, Religion, TV, The Arts
Wednesday, Oct. 28 2009 @ 2:10PM




&#8203;On the _Curb Your Enthusiasm_ episode aired on Sunday, Larry David took a leak, some of it got on a painting of Jesus, a Catholic saw the painting later and thought the painting had miraculously wept, etc. _Entertainment Weekly'_s PopWatch readers find this (at present) the "cringe-iest"moment in the ep, beating "Larry grips belly fat to avoid death" by six points. 
Some people are even more exercised and the profanation has the outrage mill in full churn. 
"Would he think it comedic if someone urinated on a picture of his mother?" asks preeminent Catholic scold Bill Donohue. "This might be fun to watch, but since HBO only likes to dump on Catholics (it was just a couple of weeks ago that Sarah Silverman insulted Catholics on 'Real Time with Bill Maher'), and David is Jewish, we'll never know." 
We'll probably never know how David's Judaism protects him in this case, either, but The Conservative Gentleman tries to provide a test case by painting a Hitler mustache on David's picture. "Now we have not had a serious axe to grind with Jews in the past," says the Gentleman, "but we are unsheathing and sharpening it for this one... Jews wonder why people around the world hate them, why they've been hated for thousands of years. Jews like Larry David are why." God, we've been waiting _years_ for that explanation!... 

You may read similar opinions at white power site Stormfront ("Like they won't be happy until people DO PERSECUTE them"), unless your blocking software disallows it. 
Michael Savage, in a dramatic twist, comes to the defense of the Jews against Larry David. Savage believes David "needs to be stopped before he brings terrible calamity on the Jewish People" and suggests he is "an anti-Semite in Jew's clothing," as well as "a typical Brooklyn type" who, in typical rootless-cosmopolitan manner, "migrated out to Hollywood to produce this vulgarity." Savage also blasts the negative image of Judaism promoted by _Seinfeld_, Woody Allen, etc. Please, no one tell him about Arnold Stang. 
The Conservative Beacon asks why doesn't David make fun of Muslims if he's so brave, then answers himself: "We must be ultra-sensitive and sympathetic to Muslims as a result of 9/11. We must spare their feelings." Another deathless question answered! _Curb Your Enthusiasm_ should be reclassified as educational television. 
Eventually critics bring out their biggest insult: David's work resembles that of Andres Serrano. "Larry David's 'Piss Christ,'" cries Big Hollywood. "If a crucifix submerged in urine can be high art," says Moonbattery. "why can't urinating on portraits of Jesus be high comedy?" 
Inevitably, boycotts are proposed. Christians "will turn the other cheek by not watching you and not visiting your sponsors," claims Leaving Normal. "Cancel your HBO and tell your cable provider you will not subscribe to the appropriate plan until they remove it from their package," proposes The Gray Morass. 
Others worry about fallout. "I assume another publicity hungry freak will try to top peeing on The Savior of all Mankind," says My Word and Welcome to It. Then he provides samples: "Pope answers ad on Craigslist to be a 'host' at an S & M party. We find out he likes to play the submissive male..." We hope he's registered this with the WGA. Well, it's reached Fox News, quoting a blogger who demands an apology, so we assume the outrage has reached a head and will soon decline, to be replaced by some other anti-Christian menace -- like the Hate Crimes Bill. 

Oh an be sure to boycott Time Warner while your at it!


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## TerrapinStation (Oct 28, 2009)

atheism killed himself. Whats the point of living if there is no god? you wont remember any of this. who you are doesnt matter. nihilism.


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## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

TerrapinStation said:


> EXPERIENCED GROWER HELP! I am new to this so I'm not too sure when to harvest... I am looking for more a couch lock high. My outdoor potted plants are 4 months old. Have been flowering for about 6.5 weeks with super bloom for past month. If you could look at these pics and tell me a couple things... How much longer should I let it grow? AND can you tell what kind of strain it is ( name and I/S) Thanks! I live it Southern Cali so frost isn't a concern.
> 
> http://s873.photobucket.com/albums/a...view=slideshow


TeeP.. your picture just goes to the homepage to download.., If it's an indica (short stout fat thick leaves) in flower, you may have a couple of weeks left.. If its an Sativa (tall, thin, Lanky leaves) you may have a little more than a few.. If it's a mix, then the predominance of that strain phenotype might go somewhere in between the two., It depends.. However, try downloading you pic again, but do it in another section that is more suited to help answer that question.. We have more important things to discuss over here..

, I'm just joking witcha' buddy.., but yeah, do it in another section and you will probably get a lot more input and help..


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> No list of humanitarian acts performed in the name of atheism?


I'll provide you with a list if he can not do so off hand.

http://techskeptic.blogspot.com/2007/12/atheist-charities.html

See, when atheists get together and do good deeds they don't stick a symbol on top of it and claim it in the name of a religion.

The only thing uniting them is a common will to do something good.

And there are atheists that do things that are negative, assuredly.

But I've never heard of atheists banding together to form an atheist organization to do unpleasant things in it's name.

I do welcome any samples you can provide though. It would be interesting reading.




> In your original post you said Atheism was "enlightening", but you have no examples of acts to back that enlightenment up?


I don't find enlightenment applicable to atheism, as the common definition of enlightenment tends to be a philosophical or religious construct. So I'd be surprised to see examples in that case. 



> And as to your claim that atheism hasn't caused any wars, are you unaware that the godless communists are responsible for much oppression - of the people - and many wars?


Marx's communism and the practiced communism are different beasts altogether. Soviet and Chinese communism are dogmatic faiths, equivalent to religion. They demand atheism simply as a means of eliminating organized resistance by any potentially powerful group within the totalitarian state. And as religion demands unquestioning faith, as an organization it would steal away those who would serve the dogma of the communist dialectic.

Atheism does not equal communism. The Scandinavian countries are primarily atheistic (if not adeistic), and Denmark is about as atheistic a country as one can get, and all are democracies.

They also have a much higher level of education per capita than the US, which goes hand in hand with atheism.


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

And Babs *still* keeps bringing up the neg rep that she absolutely doesn't care about whatsoever. 
There must be over 30 posts by her about it.


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

TerrapinStation said:


> atheism killed himself. Whats the point of living if there is no god? you wont remember any of this. who you are doesnt matter. nihilism.


Unless you are able to prove the existence of a god, any point of living you currently have is godless.


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## Babs34 (Oct 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> And Babs *still* keeps bringing up the neg rep that she absolutely doesn't care about whatsoever.
> There must be over 30 posts by her about it.


 *Don't be ill morgen just because you've been exposed.*
*I'm sure there will be thirty more knowing who it's coming from. ...no worries, I'll feel free to post them every time. *


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## Green Cross (Oct 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I'll provide you with a list if he can not do so off hand.
> 
> http://techskeptic.blogspot.com/2007/12/atheist-charities.html
> 
> ...


Athiest have a right to believe as they wish, but they spend a lot of time, and money trying to persuade others not to practice they're beliefs openly. They sure are a close minded, intolerant, bunch. 

SAT scores prove the intelligence of the American people has declined since the state took God out of the schools, but you're free to measure intelligence in others ways I suppose. This is a free country after all. 

I couldn't get your link to work, and didn't have much success finding any organized Atheistic Charities, but I had no problem finding many Christian ones. 

Christian Charities Rank High in Top 100 U.S. Nonprofits
Christian charities made up nearly a quarter of the 100 best nonprofit groups for financial integrity in the United States, according to a leading nonprofit management magazine.
Twenty-two Christian organizations were ranked in the 2007 Top 100 list by The NonProfit Times. Notably, three groups  Catholic Charities, USA, The Salvation Army, and Habitat for Humanity International  were among the top 10 best charities.
To make the list, at least 10 percent of an organizations income must have come from public support.
International humanitarian and development groups World Vision and Food for the Poor ranked 14th and 18th, respectively, among other Christian nonprofits that made up made up a quarter of the top 20 charities.
Well-known ministries such as Campus Crusade for Christ, Samaritans Purse and Compassion International were included in the top 50 nonprofits. Compassion, a leading child-development ministry, advanced to 48th place this year, up from 54th place a year ago.
We are grateful to God for allowing us to experience such unprecedented growth, said Dr. Wess Stafford, president of Compassion International, in a statement Friday. In addition to His unfailing guidance, God has blessed Compassion with committed sponsors and donors, whose trust and confidence are highly valued and never taken for granted.
It is through their consistent financial loyalty, that Compassion has been blessed to see generations of lives transformed, Stafford added.
In addition to a higher ranking in The NonProfit Times, Compassion was given a four-star rating for the sixth consecutive year in 2007 by Charity Navigator  one of the nations leading financial-accountability organizations.
Other Christian nonprofits that made the top 100 list included Christian Broadcasting Network, Christian and Missionary Alliance, Trinity Broadcasting Network, and Catholic Medical Mission Board.


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Correlation does not equal causation.
Show me a link between prayer and SAT scores.
It wouldn't have anything at all to do with military spending consistently getting the lions share, and school funding the shaft during Republican terms. Or the "teach to the standardized test" method of funding used to create an illusion of students better educated than they are.
There's no prayer in schools in Canada any more. Our kids certainly aren't suffering for it. Education has actually had a decent budget here for the last 50 years.

If you were more concerned about getting education back in schools instead of prayer, you might see higher scores on the SATs.

Just think how they'll drop in Texas and Kansas if they ever manage to ram 'intelligent design' down students throats as they intend.

The link is fine, and even works in your quote. I suggest you try again. 

So if 25 percent were Christian Charities, what does that make the other 75%? That seems odd in a country with 70% Christian population.

Large print makes Christians more effective? I need to try that with Atheism.


There is no proof of gods, therefore gods are irrelevant.

Hmmm. Nah, the words themselves say it all. No need to supersize them. Must just be something believers use to identify each other in forums.


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Don't be ill morgen just because you've been exposed.*
> *I'm sure there will be thirty more knowing who it's coming from. ...no worries, I'll feel free to post them every time. *


Well, if it will give you comfort I'd be happy to go Elite and give you some Negs as well so your persecution complex doesn't suffer.


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## Green Cross (Oct 28, 2009)

Perhaps the Atheist only think they are smarter than Christians, in that case the argument is moot. 

This from 
"Public-School Excuse # 1  Give Us More Money!"

....Many studies have shown that most private Catholic schools do a better job educating children than public schools. A 1990 Rand Corporation study examined big-city high schools to find out how education for low-income minority children could be improved. The study compared thirteen New York City public, private, and Catholic high schools that had many minority students. In the Catholic schools, 75 to 90 percent of the students were black or hispanic. The study found that:
The Catholic high schools graduated 95 percent of their students each year, while public schools graduated slightly more 50 percent of their senior class; Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction; 85 percent of the Catholic high school students took the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT), compared with just 33 percent of the public school students; The Catholic school students achieved an average combined SAT score of 803, while the public school students average combined SAT score was 642; and 60 percent of the Catholic school black students scored above the national average for black students on the SAT, and over 70 percent of public school black students scored below the same national average.4
Recent studies confirm many of the Rand reports findings. A 1997 study by Derek Neal, then associate professor of economics at the University of Chicago, analyzed the effect of Catholic high-school education on high-school and college graduation rates. Neal found that when inner-city students transferred to Catholic schools, their probability of graduating from high school increased from 62 percent to at least 88 percent. He also found that hispanic and black Catholic-school students were more than twice as likely to graduate college than minorities students who attended public schools.
Also, Protestant-affiliated school students consistently show superior academic results compared to public schools. The National Center for Education Statistics (NAEP) administers the National Assessment of Educational Progress(NAEP) to test the knowledge and skills of the nations students in grades 4, 8, and 12.
The NAEPs 2003 test results showed that students in the Protestant-affiliated schools (as well as Catholic-school students) consistently scored well above public-school students in math, reading, writing, history, and geography. At all three grade levels, a significantly higher percentage of Protestant and Catholic-affiliated school students scored at or above the _Basic_, _Proficient_, and _Advanced_ levels compared to public schools. Protestant and Catholic-affiliated school students also consistently scored higher on both verbal and math SAT scores compares to public-school students. Similarly, as for Catholic-school students, hispanic and black students in Protestant-affiliated schools were more than twice as likely to graduate college than minorities students who attended public schools.
Yet, the average annual tuition costs for Catholic and Protestant-affiliated schools for the 2002-2003 school year were approximately $3500-$4000 per elementary-school pupil and $5500-$6000 per Secondary school pupil. The average public-school cost per pupil was approximately $7300. 5
These studies show that Catholic and Protestant-affiliated schools give a superior education to public schools, especially for inner-city minority students. They give a better education at half the cost for elementary-grade students and about 30 percent lower cost for secondary or high-school students. Something is clearly wrong with public schools if they do an inferior job educating children for almost twice the cost of religiously-affiliated schools. Obviously, more money does not mean better education."

But what about technological achievements, and innovation, in a country that believes in a "Creator" (according to the bill of rights).

Belief in a Creator and scientific achievement seem to go hand in hand: 
"America's unparalleled technological achievements and their legacy during the years 1870 to 1970 -- the greatest era of productivity the world has ever known."

But I suppose it was the Atheists who achieved so much, in so little time?? lol


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Hey, what's wrong with Larry peeing on Jesus? I find the guy annoying and don't watch his show, but peeing on Jesus can't be any worse than shitting on the Constitution, and Christians have been doing that for years, attempting to bypass the whole bit about "separation of church and state".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> But I suppose it was the Atheists who achieved so much, in so little time??


Almost certainly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism


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## Mauihund (Oct 28, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Babs
> Brazko
> Maui
> 
> ...



Go ahead and do your mouseketeer's role call.

No one is fooled by your attempt to find something new to say. Getting someone else to do your talking will still leave you without something to say.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> Can you tell me if Larry David is an Atheistic Jew, or a believing Jew, and if all Jews feel that it's ok to do this sort of thing to other human beings? See below:


You would have to ask Larry.
Interesting to see you read stuff that leads to White Power websites and the like.

It's interesting to see how much hate people have for another group of people that are supposed to have murdered an individual that in all probability never existed, and was written into myth decades after he was supposed to have lived.


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## Mauihund (Oct 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Unless you are able to prove the existence of a god, any point of living you currently have is godless.



This is proof you are dead to all things spiritual. You have no clue what you are talking about. Still trying to hand out spiritual advice? What a dick head. 

You don't have that privilege. First, get a spirit.


----------



## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> Go ahead and do your mouseketeer's role call.
> 
> No one is fooled by your attempt to find something new to say. Getting someone else to do your talking will still leave you without something to say.


 
hahahahahaha, Where did you find that post? I must've missed that One...,

did anybody answer role call... 

here I'll tell you which side seems more logical... Paddy's Side, that is the Logical Answer .., but that would mean.., I'm being Logical. So That would be My side.., but Wait.. I don't have a Side.. WTF?  

here, this is the Logical side...kiss-ass


hmmmmm, I think this is what they mean by me not having any convictions.., I'm a Flip Flopper.., when I express an opinion they try to Flip it to their meaning and then.., They Flop....

Yes, I have no convictions to anyone's opinion..., I'm a Flip Flopper... 

but I am Willing to OVerstand your Opinion...That way I can stand solidly on what you have Said...,


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Mauihund said:


> This is proof you are dead to all things spiritual.


You use this as an insult.

You believe in imaginary things for which there is no possible proof.

You disbelieve things for which there is now solid evidence, such as evolution, because you are horrified by the thought that you might be related to a primate, and may invalidate your holy roller.

If being spiritual means being an intellectually dishonest ego masturbating twat, then you are absolutely right. I am spiritually dead, and you are a shining example of spirituality.




> You have no clue what you are talking about. Still trying to hand out spiritual advice? What a dick head.
> You don't have that privilege. First, get a spirit.


I'm hurt that I don't meet your criteria for theistic bukkake. I was so looking forward to having the seed of religion spew it's toxic load over me.


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## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I'm hurt that I don't meet your criteria for theistic bukkake. I was so looking forward to having the seed of religion spew it's toxic load over me.


Hey, Fellas... Overhere.. Morgy's down to do the Nasty!! 


I knew you were a little Freak..


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## CrackerJax (Oct 28, 2009)

I went down to ABC today and bought some spirits.


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## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

Whew... O.K. I'm Spent!! Check in Next Time.. and please send a P.M. when the Nasty is about to go down again..


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Religion. It's hard to swallow, and you spend a lot of time feeling guilty, but you get to be part of a very special secret!


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## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> I went down to ABC today and bought some spirits.


Noo., C*J.., Their Coverage Sucks (hehehe.OOhH neva mind) but, that's about as Cheap as you can Go.. 

Don't Worry, I got My Spirit through them too.. 

I just keep letting it go, So I can Catch it Again.. 

Jus' j/k.. NO Spirit>>>No Play


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## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

Umm, I do assume you reported this.., Or is this part of your Private Collection.., 

lil Freak 



morgentaler said:


> Religion. It's hard to swallow, and you spend a lot of time feeling guilty, but you get to be part of a very special secret!


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

I was only 6. I didn't know it was wrong!


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## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I was only 6. I didn't know it was wrong!


I believe we Have a Psychic on Our Hands!! Crystals, Astrology, Potions..

I should've caught the hints earlier


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

I had to see what you thought of Father Fitzpatrick. (the little kid is Patrick)


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## Brazko (Oct 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I had to see what you thought of Father Fitzpatrick. (the little kid is Patrick)


Are you Serious.. I hope your just pulling my chain and not making that bold face Lie..

We all can see it's a Costume.. We are not Atheist you Know?











p.s. shhhhhhh - I get it.. just pulling your chain..


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Well, if it will give you comfort I'd be happy to go Elite and give you some Negs as well so your persecution complex doesn't suffer.


 *Keep on showing us the hyprocrites you are. *


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## PadawanBater (Oct 28, 2009)

[youtube]p1R8w_QEvEU#[/youtube]

Great video about how the theory of evolution is real science, as opposed to intelligent design or creationism.

Enjoy!


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Keep on showing us the hyprocrites you are. *


I love it when you make absolutely nonsensical bullshit posts, which is pretty much all of them.

What's hypocritical about offering to give you the Neg Rep you want so badly?

Someone unknown gave you a red point. You immediately started freaking out. You freaked out over it pointing fingers and ranting for many posts. I'm guessing around 30 but probably more. I have no interest digging around that toddler-esque mess you pretend is writing_*1_. 

It makes you feel special, all that screaming of "Look, the atheists are out to get me!", except you'd do it in bold, two sizes to big, with someone else's writing stuck in the middle of the message.

So if you're so excited about neg points, and you want them so badly, so you can scream "Persecution!" just let me know and I'll get an Elite so you can have one.

So go ahead, and show what was hypocritical in the statement, so we can see that once again you fling common words about without understanding what you're saying. 

Maybe this will make it easier for you to understand. Children seem more willing to learn things when Elmo is involved. 














_*1_What exactly is the point of random bolding things, and randomly turning the quote functionality on and off? It takes 5 minutes to learn, and doesn't conflict with biblical teachings in any way.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 28, 2009)

Can't figure out the rep system, even after multiple explanations by multiple posters. 

Can't figure out how to post anything remotely readable.

A pattern is emerging.


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## Consciousness420 (Oct 28, 2009)

uhmm , yea in case the rest of you haven't thought it through yet, there is no 'god' as we humans have previously defined it. We live in a multiverse of configuration space all using quantum games for the primary simulation of gaining an advantage. and yes, in case you were wondering I am high as a kite right now.. hahahaa.


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

I'll totally kick your ass at Light Bikes, Tron!


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## Babs34 (Oct 28, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Can't figure out the rep system, even after multiple explanations by multiple posters.
> 
> Can't figure out how to post anything remotely readable.
> 
> A pattern is emerging.


 *LOOOOOL, figured out from your own post (which you stand by) that you get one a week.....*
*keep showing your hypocrisy, whatever does it for you.*
*Again, only atheists have given me neg-rep. I love showing you the to be the hypocrites you are.*
*That makes two now, LOL......keep me on your calender. Thus far, you have it just about to the hour, LOL.*


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## morgentaler (Oct 28, 2009)

This word, "hypocrites", I do not think it means what she think it means.

Should the person that gave me a neg rep be considered a hypocrite or doing so? No. They didn't like what I had to say. I certainly don't mind. I would have liked to have it signed, though I'm 99% certain who it was, it would still be nice for them to have stood behind their words.

Now if you want hypocritical that would be Babs and Green Cross saying we're horrible for coming in and attacking their religion and then both railing against the fact that there's no prayer in schools.

So it's wrong for us to argue against religion, but you want the right to force it on children. How delightful.

I haven't seen any evidence of someone being forced to not engage in their own prayer in school. They can feel free to show some. Of course Babs likes to exclaim about stuff like that and the Rainbow Parties with no backing evidence whatsoever. It must be nice to live in a world where you don't require proof for anything as long as it suits your viewpoint.

The important thing is that religion not be pushed upon any student by any other student, faculty member, or board ruling. There are Christian clubs in high schools and Colleges, but they are voluntary and not mandated upon the children. If you want your kids to pray in school, send them to a religious school if it's so important to you. 


Imagine is a man walked up to your children and told them that if they didn't follow his rules and provide him with the love he demanded he would torture them by setting them on fire.

You'd want him dead for abusing your children.

Now put a bible in his hand and have him tell them if they don't follow "God's" rules and provide him with the love he demands , God will torture them for eternity in Hell.

That's child abuse. Plain and simple.

How many children lie awake at night, terrified of displeasing "God" and pretending around their parents that everything is okay.

Yet putting the "fear of God" into someone is supposedly a good thing. It's sick.

Watch "Deborah 13: Servant of God" and see how this abusive concept of God, hellfire, and sin can leave a child so damaged they become an Evangelist out of the sheer terror that they might burn.

If there were even the slightest chance that demons existed, the most effective place for them to do the most damage would be by authoring a demented book of scripture, that demands families split or do violence if any of them should be unbelievers, and that the mere questioning or denying that Jesus was a Messiah earned you stripes in hell. 

If there was a creator, who crafted a universe with billions upon billions of stars, what concern would it have with this planet, peering into the lives of every living thing and demanding love and worship of it like some petty little dictator hovering over an anthill, making judgements against humanity that sound more like the ravings of misogynistic, slave driving, savages than a being of infinite grace and wisdom.

If a creator exists, it is not the small and vicious gods birthed by man.


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## PadawanBater (Oct 29, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> This word, "hypocrites", I do not think it means what she think it means.
> 
> Should the person that gave me a neg rep be considered a hypocrite or doing so? No. They didn't like what I had to say. I certainly don't mind. I would have liked to have it signed, though I'm 99% certain who it was, it would still be nice for them to have stood behind their words.
> 
> ...


 
Great post man, just wanted to say. Can't give you more rep. 

I'm starting a new thread soon, hope to see you there!


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

*Just replace a few of these words, very few, with "atheists"......look in the mirror.*
*Thankfully not all atheists are as pig headed as you three.*
American Nazi Party - Who we are
*Who we are*

Racial Greetings White Brothers and Sisters! 
The American Nazi Party is a Political-Educational Association, dedicated to the 14 WORDS. We are committed to bringing American National Socialism, first created and embodied by our late Commander George Lincoln Rockwell, out of the past Phase One activities which at the time served their purpose well, and into the 21st Century. 
Although National Socialism encompasses many various issues of concern to Aryan Americans, including a healthy environment, children's welfare, and freedom of belief without fear of System persecution...the two main tenants of National Socialism embodies the Struggle for Aryan Racial survival, and Social Justice for White Working Class people throughout our land. 
As Aryan Revolutionaries, we recognize the fact that behaving in the manner of past activities, little progress has been achieved for our Cause. That is why we have taken a new direction. In the American Nazi Party, you will find no uniforms or ranks, we do not engage in publicly exposing our Comrades to undo publicity through pointless and dangerous Rallies or Marches. We instead stress Small Cell, and Individual Activism as the path for which to build our Movement, as securely and in a responsible manner as possible. 
We are looking for Men and Women, who are willing to sacrifice for the Good of the Folk, not people who are looking for aggrandizement, titillation, or simply causing undirected and useless mayhem. This is not a game or a gang. 
It is a very serious Struggle that we are involved in for the very existence of our White Nation of people. Those who are simply intent on pranks or causing trouble should perhaps look elsewhere for stimulation. 
If you are interested in learning more about the American Nazi Party, we suggest writing to our National Headquarters and requesting an Info Pack. 
Please enclose a $5 donation to cover costs. This information will be relayed to you as quickly as possible. 
Each of us must decide just how far we will let the situation in America deteriorate, before we decide to take action to correct it. If you have had enough, and are willing to join the ranks of your ancestors who forged this land from a wilderness teeming with savages, and to keep it from returning to that state, we urge you to become involved. For your children's sake, if not for your own. For White WORKER Power! 

*Rocky J. Suhayda* - Chairman, American Nazi Party 

[email protected] 
Download Adolf Hitler's masterpiece *Mein Kampf* HERE.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

LOL
YouTube - David Bowie (feat Nine Inch Nails) - I'm Afraid Of Americans


----------



## PadawanBater (Oct 29, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/263592-simple-questions-about-beliefs.html


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

Just when we though you had maxed out, you just had to top it off with supernova of ignorance. 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nazi_Party

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Nation

*Aryan Nations (AN)* is a white nationalist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. As of December 2007 there were two main factions that claimed descent from Butler's group. Aryan Nations has been called a "terrorist threat" by the FBI,[1] and the RAND Corporation has called it the "first truly nationwide terrorist network" in the USA.[2]




They're good Christians, Babs.
And you want to pawn them off on us?

You can keep them. Maybe they can teach in your prayer school.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> This word, "hypocrites", I do not think it means what she think it means.
> 
> Should the person that gave me a neg rep be considered a hypocrite or doing so? No. They didn't like what I had to say. I certainly don't mind. I would have liked to have it signed, though I'm 99% certain who it was, it would still be nice for them to have stood behind their words.
> 
> ...


 

It must be nice to live in a world where you don't require proof for anything as long as it suits your viewpoint.
*Indeed morgen, it must be.*
------------------------------------------------
.


morgentaler said:


> * Worry about your own sexual proclivities and stick to that you phobic bitch.*
> *Thank you for showing that you are an idiot who prides herself on ignorance and homophobia, and still considers that morality.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> This word, "hypocrites", I do not think it means what she think it means.
> 
> Should the person that gave me a neg rep be considered a hypocrite or doing so? No. They didn't like what I had to say. I certainly don't mind. I would have liked to have it signed, though I'm 99% certain who it was, it would still be nice for them to have stood behind their words.
> 
> ...





morgentaler said:


> Just when we though you had maxed out, you just had to top it off with supernova of ignorance.
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nazi_Party
> ...


*I did say "just replace a FEW of those words"......you just don't read morgen.*
*Your own words (LIES) fail you every time. *


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *I did say "just replace a FEW of those words"......you just don't read morgen.*
> *Your own words (LIES) fail you every time. *


You can't turn us into christians by substituting some words Babs.

Here's something you might understand since you're obsessed with rep. 7 out of the last nine people to rep me in the past two days were people I've never interacted with on here, that were cheering me on for dealing with your nonsense.

If you want to compare atheists to *Christian White Supremacists* you only make yourself look stupid.

And yes, you do look like a hypocritical homophobe when you say your brother is a "flamer" (your word, not mine) but you ranted about bisexual women. 

You're no different than the judge who says he has black friends but won't marry black and white couples. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33332436/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity/


----------



## PadawanBater (Oct 29, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> You can't turn us into christians by substituting some words Babs.
> 
> Here's something you might understand since you're obsessed with rep. 7 out of the last nine people to rep me in the past two days were people I've never interacted with on here, that were cheering me on for dealing with your nonsense.
> 
> ...


 
this is like the globetrotters vs a preteen girlscout basketball league... 

Keep knockin' em' down Morgen! 

Check this out Babs, you too Braz and Maui...

[youtube]JvVAV09-dQ8#[/youtube]

What do you think of this chicks conduct?


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> You can't turn us into christians by substituting some words Babs.
> 
> Here's something you might understand since you're obsessed with rep. 7 out of the last nine people to rep me in the past two days were people I've never interacted with on here, that were cheering me on for dealing with your nonsense.
> 
> ...


*And morgen, you can't define ME, or my beliefs, by your blatant lies. Your entire argument has been so insanely off base.*

*Your own words prove you a liar again and again.*

*I did not call him a flamer. I said he is flaming.........as in VERY OBVIOUSLY gay......not one in the closet--know what I mean. *

*I did no such thing ranting about bi-sexual women.*
*My simple point was EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.........people are becoming bi-sexual because it's en vogue---look it up morgen.*

*And keep rolling with your lies and fabrications......I'll keep exposing them.*

*HEHE, kudos to you! YAY, you got +rep for your lies.....must be the antagonizing friends you have that frequent spiritual threads for the SOLE purpose to harangue.*

*Cj brags about "having" to neg rep to prove something, while you brag about GETTING postive rep for your lies and incessant need to badger good people.*

*Now you want to go on a black and white tangent? You're sad morgen.*

*And how very pathetic that you and cj (all your 'buddies') define your lives by the "rep" received on RIU, LOL.....it really is entertaining.*


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> *this is like the globetrotters vs a preteen girlscout basketball league... sho is chica*
> 
> *Keep knockin' em' down Morgen!* *<----cheerleader for atheist liars*
> 
> ...


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

I don't care about the rep. But as has been pointed out to you again and again you raved and ranted about one negative rep from someone you couldn't identify for post after post after post, only to accuse the wrong person of it and have to get a virtual slap to show what a spaz you are. So it's a little fun to jerk your chain about it while it's still a sore spot for you.

I don't even believe anyone had mentioned their rep until you went on your little apeshit tirade.
But you've made such a point of blathering on about the neg, I _know_ it's driving you bonkers.
Well, _more_ bonkers.

I love that your primary argument consists of correcting the tense of flamer/flaming. Bravo.

And what does it matter to you if women are becoming more open with their bisexuality. It's not like they're trying to recruit out of schools for Sunday Bisexual School.

You say it's because it's "en vogue". Well, it could also be because admitting to being attracted to the same sex isn't the life ruining, possible death sentence that it used to be. At least in the less religious states. Matthew Shepherd might disagree, or he would if he was still alive. Things can change in 10 years, but you can't bring a dead kid back to life. 

Unless of course you're a "True Believer"(tm). That whole bit about "True Believers" being able to cure with just their hands is awesome. Can they resurrect too? That would be awesome.

Only one question though... where are they?

I see a lot of doctors who went to school for 8 years or more to be able to practice medicine, yet all they had to do was truly believe in Jesus and BAM! Healing powers.
*
Mark 16:18 ...they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.*

But then the total lack of people able to do that would mean there are no true believers, and that would be sad.

Oh shit! I misread it. Now that I see the application of "they" in the sentence I see what it really means.

They (the true believers) shall lay hands on the sick, and they (the true believers) shall recover.

So the true believers are actually some kind of spiritual vampires for Jesus, sucking the life force from the ill to power the coming Tribulation.

The people must be warned. The children and bank accounts protected.

The Rapture is coming and God needs money.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

And with that lovely segue through the realm of New Testament nonsense, I'm off to bed for 3 hours.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

What do you think of this chicks conduct? 

*After two minutes of viewing?.......I think she was in the band. *


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> And with that lovely segue through the realm of New Testament nonsense, I'm off to bed for 3 hours.


 *Hehe, gotta get that beauty sleep for your future rants.......don't forget not to piss on yourself.*


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> What do you think of this chicks conduct?


She's a Poe. They were featured on Pharyngula a couple of months back. Really had people worked up because everyone knew someone like that. Shudder.

But she's definitely part of an acting troupe. They do skits on various topics such as this.

I wish I had an eidetic memory instead of a merely obsessive compulsive information addiction. 

Okay, real sleepy time now.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Hehe, gotta get that beauty sleep for your future rants.......don't forget not to piss on yourself.*


Hardly! I'm saving all my piss for Jesus!

Sweet dreams.


----------



## wakeandbake (Oct 29, 2009)

Growing up smoking weed definately opened me up to things and made me especially curious about things. I looked into alot of different religions and found that although the core messages were all good most of them had been hijacked long ago by men who wanted to control people. Religion inspires people from the heart and that is a very powerful tool for manipulation if you want to control someone. inspiration is the motivation behind action after all. I was suprised with Buddhism as it encourages you to test its teachings and not just rely on blind faith. I did used to believe in a god of some sort but now i believe in my own potential and i take responsibility for my actions both past and present. I dont hate on other religions because i think its important to inspire people to do good things but unfortunately i think religion in general, especially the whole pass the buck, 'gods will' nonsense is to blame for alot of human suffering. I think religions started when people needed to justify to themselves and others things that they couldnt explain.

Just my opinion


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## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

[youtube]DX9DoVfFEOk[/youtube]

Yes, the religious are perfectly normal....


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

I finally figured out the pattern of Braz, Maui, and the rest. 

This explains alot.....


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 29, 2009)

I believe in the Power of Good that can be generated by coupling an amalgam comprised of Law of Attraction and the Ethic of Reciprocity to a pulse processing engine fueled by my communities good will.

Can the output be the word of a God concept?

edit: changed if to of


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## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

No, it can't.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> I finally figured out the pattern of Braz, Maui, and the rest.
> 
> This explains alot.....


 *Gosh, you really are astute.*
*What's it going to take for you to finally acknowledge who is religous?**No answer expected.....you'd have nothing to mock if you were to address truth for once. *
*Keep me on that schedule ......and keep proving my point.*


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 29, 2009)

If the output cannot be the word of a God concept?

Then what can it be?


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

*never fear, cj is here to answer all*


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

The average IQ is 98.....


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 29, 2009)

Between 40 and 50 percent of people do not believe in religion and are therefore atheists?


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## robert 14617 (Oct 29, 2009)

it only states the importance not one way or the other


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## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Between 40 and 50 percent of people do not believe in religion and are therefore atheists?


No.
The graph rates the importance of religion to the individual not the belief.

Even at 10% there is still some importance, even if it's just fire insurance.


----------



## Green Cross (Oct 29, 2009)

Here's a fascinating old story (purposely avoided by the God hating Liberal media): 

Is seems, Russians learned - the hard way - that a Country cannot survive without morality, interwoven into the conciseness of the society. Morals don't come naturally, they must be learned.

The founding fathers knew, self governance is required in a free society, or Corruption and lawlessness (anarchy). become the order of the day. 

As we have seen in recent history there is little to stop children from mass murdering each other, if they lack morals and discipline. 

And I see no reason why the US should have to learn the same lessons, the hard way.

BBC August 2006 

Religion enters Russian schools 






Orthodox Christianity has enjoyed a boom since the USSR collapsed

*The Orthodox Christian religion is being made a compulsory school subject in four of Russia's regions.* 
Pupils in the Belgorod, Bryansk, Kaluga and Smolensk regions will be taught the basics of Orthodox Christianity. 
It will also be included as an optional subject in the school curriculum in 11 other regions across the country. 
Supporters say the move will help protect traditional spiritual values in Russia. Critics say it violates the constitution of the secular state. 
In the Soviet Union the teaching of religion was strictly outlawed in schools and elsewhere. 
Orthodox Christianity is Russia's main religion, but the country's Muslim community makes up more than 10% of the total population. There are 86 regions and republics in the Russian Federation. 
Responding to the regions' move, the central educational watchdog body, Rosobraznadzor, said the Church was separate from the state, so the basics of Orthodox Christianity should only be taught as an optional subject. 
The introduction of the new subject comes after lawmakers in the 15 regions backed the move. 
Russian Education Minister Andrei Fursenko also voiced support, saying "schoolchildren must know the history of religion and religious culture". 
He said it was a matter for the regions to decide. 
"This year, a textbook on the history of world religions is available for the first time. It pays a lot of attention to Russian Orthodox Christianity," he said. One of the regions named told the BBC that the lessons planned for its schools would concentrate on history rather than questions of faith, the BBC's James Rodgers reports from Moscow. Nevertheless Muslim leaders have responded by saying that they will ask for lessons on Islamic culture to be extended."


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 29, 2009)

I swear I see a big 'ol blank spot between 40 and 50.
In fact, I bet it goes on out to at least 55.

Between 40 and 55 percent of people are atheists.

edit: childish explanation - Answers may be variable.


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

It shows that almost exclusively... ppl with higher IQ's kow better...

One causality would be the smarter you are, the more control you have over ur personal environment. 

Easy answers are like ornaments on a tree. Glittery but not much real purpose. It's the tree of knowledge which is the true goal, not the ornaments which are hung there by others.


----------



## robert 14617 (Oct 29, 2009)

talk about glittery things


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## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

Ouch!!! Just in time for Halloween!!


----------



## OregonMeds (Oct 29, 2009)

Liberache would be really turned on by how gold and sparkly those preists are in the picture.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

Liberace grew up in a time period where priests had their way with kids without much repercussion. It's quite possible ol' Lib saw the gold and sparkly close up and personal like.


----------



## PadawanBater (Oct 29, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> She's a Poe.


 
Best fuckin' news I've heard in a while! I thought there was actually someone that stupid and cruel in the real world... 

...oh wait.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> H
> The founding fathers knew, self governance is required in a free society, or Corruption and lawlessness (anarchy). become the order of the day.


And they knew that theocracies are corrupt and dangerous, which is why they worded in the separation of church and state.

Of course you want prayer back in school, but you want it to be *your* prayer, for your specific sect.

Oh I could just see the fits had if Christian children went to school and spent their prayer time appeasing Jupiter on the Mount.

Canada is less religious and has significantly less crime.

European countries with higher percentages of atheism also have less crime and a higher standard of living.

The US has more people per capita in prison than any other country. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

The US has 70 percent of people identifying as Christian, yet has more religious people per capita in prisons than atheists.

Why would that be? Is religion not living up to it's promise of increased morality?

I guess it helped slave owners in the south justify the keeping of other humans as property, since the bible allows for that.

Does terrorizing children with threats of eternal hellfire really make them a good person? If you're only a good person because of the dictates of your religion, then you're not a good person at all, you're a sycophant trying to weasel your way to eternal reward.

But I digress.

As the saying goes: Don't pray in our schools, and we won't think in your churches.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

*Yes, I DO love good people.*

Florida Court Sets Atheist Holy Day | The Fillmore Gazette

*In Florida, an atheist created a case against the upcoming Easter & Passover holy days. He hired an attorney to bring a discrimination case against Christians, Jews & observances of their holy days. The argument was....it was unfair that atheists had no such recognized day(s).
The case was brought before a judge. After listening to the passionate presentation by the lawyer, the judge banged his gavel declaring, &#8220;Case dismissed.&#8221; The lawyer immediately stood objecting to the ruling saying, &#8220;Your honor, how can you possibly dismiss this case? The Christians have Christmas, Easter & others. The Jews have Passover, Yom Kippur & Hanukkah. Yet my client and all other atheists have no such holidays.&#8221; The judge leaned forward in his chair saying, &#8220;But you do. Your client, counsel, is woefully ignorant.&#8221; The lawyer said, &#8220;Your Honor, we are unaware of any special observance or holiday for atheists.&#8221; The judge said. The calendar says April 1st is April Fools Day. Psalm 14:1 states, &#8220;The fool says in his heart, there is no God.&#8221; Thus, it is the opinion of this court, that if your client says there is no God, then he is a fool. Therefore, April 1st is his day. Court is adjourned.*


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## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

For those who seem to think it's imperative to force prayer back into schools:
Since you have no regard for the constitutional separation of church and state, you might want to consider seceding from the US so that you can start your own country and draft up your own constitution.

When it's ready, please post it here. I think it would be very entertaining to see a political document scribed with random punctuation, capitalization, and font sizes, and self-contradicting passages littered throughout.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

Oh, how cute! Babs is using urban legends as proof again!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/atheist.asp

Thanks for the laugh, Babs. I can just imagine how many people have you filtered to go directly to the junk mail folder when your emails arrive.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Oct 29, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Oh, how cute! Babs is using urban legends as proof again!
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/atheist.asp
> 
> Thanks for the laugh, Babs. I can just imagine how many people have you filtered to go directly to the junk mail folder when your emails arrive.


*Ah ha ha ha ha ha!*

It all makes sense now.

Do you suppose she wonders why the Navy refuses to rescue those seven stranded castaways on *Gilligan's Island*?


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> It shows that almost exclusively... ppl with higher IQ's kow better...
> 
> One causality would be the smarter you are, the more control you have over ur personal environment.
> 
> Easy answers are like ornaments on a tree. Glittery but not much real purpose. It's the tree of knowledge which is the true goal, not the ornaments which are hung there by others.


*"so".....figure it out genius, btw, my IQ far exceeds 98----even with the holes in the brain*. 

You haven't countered nothing, because the points you made are not valid, you are basing your counter on information you don't understand, regardless the accuracy of the information, because it does not state what you are saying.. (Brazko)


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> *Ah ha ha ha ha ha!*
> 
> It all makes sense now.
> 
> Do you suppose she wonders why the Navy refuses to rescue those seven stranded castaways on *Gilligan's Island*?


 *hehe, prove it.*


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

*What you don't get and always fail to see is the simple logic put forth your way.*
*That IS what you want....a movement enforced to show recognition for your beliefs, your almighty way of "teaching" others, RECOGNITION for your role in society.*
*All of the "proof" is right here among these ridiculous atheist threads alone.*
*I needn't say any more, LOL, HAHAHAHAHAHA.*


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

As the saying goes: Don't pray in our schools, and we won't think in your churches. 

*Think outside of the box.*


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

If CJ and Babs would like to go toe-to-toe on an IQ test I can probably find one that allows comparisons.
I'd recommend using a throwaway email address when taking them though because of the spam potential.
It would be interesting to see the results.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Think outside of the box.*


That's what everyone who stays home does while you're in church.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

*ridiculous conterclaim.......NEXT.*


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

I'm still waiting for your defense of religion that states Bill Gates will give you a thousand dollars for every email you forward.
Right after the one that states having a long lost relative in Nigeria with money in trust for you is proof of Jesus.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

*I'm still waiting for you to realize that God isn't a debate.*
*Case dismissed.*


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Oct 29, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *hehe, prove it.*


Prove what? That Morgentaler is capable of *supposition*?

But if you refer to your *gullibility*, it is apparent for all to see.

Zombie saviors and urban legends are proof enough.


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

Babs is now at defcon 4 .. no more debate may be allowed. 

Nothing has to be proven. Myths may not be questioned.

Religion has all the answers already.


----------



## Babs34 (Oct 29, 2009)

*Debate amongst yourselves CJ.....tis your prerogative.*
*I clearly stated that God, NOT religion, is not a debate.*
*Your myth is the genuine genious you see as yourself.*
*Leave me out of your debate. Thanks......The End*


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

There is no evidence of G*D at all..... no point of origin has ever been established beyond myth. Science will one day find out the truth, but not in our life times. And that's okay....


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Oct 29, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Debate amongst yourselves CJ.....tis your prerogative.*
> *I clearly stated that God, NOT religion, is not a debate.*
> *Your myth is the genuine genious you see as yourself.*
> *Leave me out of your debate. Thanks......The End*


So you want no part of the debate, yet you feel compelled to *dictate* to us which topic is off limits. 

God is *highly* debatable and has been since man created him.


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

Exactly G*D didn't create man.... it's the other way around.


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *I clearly stated that God, NOT religion, is not a debate.*


Right. God is not a debate. Debate is reasoned argument. 

God is a myth. A myth is a story created to explain naturalistic phenomenon.

You finally got something right! And didn't even have to refer to your collection of insightful and humorous email.


----------



## OregonMeds (Oct 29, 2009)

She must have seen and talked to god personally...


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 29, 2009)

... and vegetables in the supermarket.
... trees.
... and long, meaningful conversations with the television set.


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 29, 2009)

look at all the lonely people
watching their lives pass them by


----------



## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

If we wanted a spokesperson we could do worse than Brother Sam

[youtube]1NE0KVEj96s[/youtube]


An Atheist Weeps for Jesus:
*If you only have time for one, make it this one:*
[youtube]6ZDIbw9qyCo[/youtube]


It's Halloween - Do you know where your demons are?
[youtube]-eZlw3gmnUY[/youtube]


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

at last..... looks like the "mythers" have retreated back into the shadow world of make believe. whew!!

The sun is shining, the birds are chirping..... I feel smarter already this morning!!


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 30, 2009)

Does anyone else?

It helps me to visualize my concept of a Higher Power.


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

Uhhhh, no.


----------



## shnkrmn (Oct 30, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Uhhhh, no.


Well, so much for feeling smarter


----------



## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

New age thinking doesn't make you smarter.... it makes you "feel" smarter..... an illusion once you meet a normal fellow.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 30, 2009)

That you may have just offended a very large segment of the world's population.

How many Dollars are you willing to bet that "New Age Thinkers" are merely an illusion?

Are you calling them ghosts?

Are you able to record for all to see a list of the drugs you imbibe besides a good herb, my friend?


----------



## shnkrmn (Oct 30, 2009)

Can you not read? CJ said that new age thinkers 'feel' smarter. It's the sensation that's illusory not the new age thinker experiencing it.



Woodstock.Hippie said:


> That you may have just offended a very large segment of the world's population.
> 
> How many Dollars are you willing to bet that "New Age Thinkers" are merely an illusion?
> 
> ...


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

Reading comprehension is another matter all together... 

*No issue is too simple that it cannot be misunderstood by others*.


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## georgi345 (Oct 30, 2009)

'haven't read through the entire thread [yet] (60 pages? yikes!), but the original post is spot-on in my opinion and i strongly support the notion of living free from the pithy prejudices of the supernatural!

life is hard and there's much that we don't (can't?) know, but to apply a salve of bogus fables (with a very limited anthropolgic literary value being about the only thing they have going for 'em) in an ultimately vain attempt to provide solace and explain away the vastness of our unknowing seems childish at best, especially in our post-enlightenment age when the possibility of extending our perceptions (radio astronomy, atomic microscopy, physics, etc) and knowledge through the project of 'science' has become an established and fruitful reality thanks to the herculean labors of some of humanities greatest minds. there will always be mystery to the world, ourselves, and our being in the world, but why trivialize and reduce that great profundity with the psychobabble of a period already thousands of years in our collective past? sure it might be fun (if that sort of self-delusion floats your boat), but what really does it do for you (believers) other than to obfuscate the pursuit of "truth" and prolong the ultimate realization that you are, in fact, mortal?

cheers
-g


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

Yes.... some ppl believe thinking with a level head is somehow not desirable. They need the fantasy.


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## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

Remember just the other day when Babs and GC were going on about morality and mass murderers being a result of no prayer in schools? They may even have been making those posts while George Sodini was on his shooting spree.

An atheist, working his murderous immorality on the world. But wait, there's a note.

"Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/full_text_of_gym_killer_blog_9hd681zrqxoYTPxXiALPON/7


As you can see George left a touching blog post, seething with Christian reasoning. Personal redemption by proxy is a wonderful system. You can do ANY horrible thing and Jesus already died for it. This may be why child rape is so often ignored in religious institutions. If God didn't want priest molesting kids he wouldn't have designed children to be so trusting, right? And they're going to be forgiven anyway, so why bother stopping them.

No wonder some people cling so heavily to the bible. When rape, murder, and torture are just part of the God process AND you come with a get-out-of-jail-free card in Jesus, what's not to love? It's a religion specifically designed for assholes. 

Or course, belief in Jesus doesn't make everyone a killer. It just gave him validation.

Kind of like when certain individuals get angry at the atheists for speaking out against Christianity, while using the defense "No one is forcing it on you", only to post in other messages that we need to put prayer back in the school system (thereby.... wait for it... *forcing* it on children.) But don't worry, Jesus also died* so you can be a hypocrite.



* Existence of Jesus not guaranteed. Results may vary. Offer not valid in some areas of conflicting faith. For entertainment and self-congratulatory ego-masturbation purposes only.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 30, 2009)

that "Atheism can be either the rejection of theism,or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities."

I believe my knowledge of physics and neurochemistry allow me to envision that every thought actually manifests itself in our universe. My mind=One of my Universes.

Therefore I when I define what does not exist, it is already too late to deny it's existence.

Hippie Tip: This makes sense if you believe in the concept of a multiverse. More is revealed in a film you can get from the wiki gods.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

It helps if ur a narcissist as well...


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## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> That you may have just offended a very large segment of the world's population.


And this is relevant to what, exactly?
A very large segment of the world's population used to think that keeping black people as slaves, or women as chattel was perfectly natural.
Having numbers does not validate a belief. It just means more people to pat each other on the back and say "Our belief is right." It's a lot easier than stopping to look for supporting evidence.


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## shnkrmn (Oct 30, 2009)

You are in over your head. "my mind=one of my universes"=solipsism. Why should we care about your personal universe; either it's mythical or we don't exist in it, or we are elements of YOUR universe, a possibility I do not care for. Hello in there, anyway.

You use the construct 'I believe' waaaaay too much.





Woodstock.Hippie said:


> that "Atheism can be either the rejection of theism,or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities."
> 
> I believe my knowledge of physics and neurochemistry allow me to envision that every thought actually manifests itself in our universe. My mind=One of my Universes.
> 
> ...


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 30, 2009)

does NOT equal 

"population used to think that keeping black people as slaves, or women as chattel was perfectly natural."

Belief is beyond the boundary of knowledge.

"I have only my sword's glow to guide me" - Knight from long ago


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## robert 14617 (Oct 30, 2009)

how you been DW?


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

WH said: I believe my knowledge of physics and neurochemistry allow me to envision that every thought actually manifests itself in our universe. My mind=One of my Universes.
==================================================================
Translation - my personal heavy drug use, not an education.


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## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

Watching "The Secret" does not constitute an education in physics and neuroscience.
In fact nothing you've said in any post that I've read would indicate any familiarity with either.


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## shnkrmn (Oct 30, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "I have only my sword's glow to guide me" - Knight from long ago


Pestered by Orcs, too? Just stop believing in them, Bilbo


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## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

This is one of the reasons I don't have any fondness for philosophy.
You can stand around all day spouting pseudo-introspective bullshit, with nothing of substance said or shown as evidence to support it, and claim to be thinking deeply about the inner workings of the universe.

I used the random philosophy generator to respond to a post by WH and even though it was completely random garbage, it still made more sense than the post it was replying to.
Philosophy is a circle jerk for people too lazy to do science.


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## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

My education in physics, neuroscience, and dairy farming leads me to believe that the longer I wait to harvest, the finer the green cheddar of the moon will taste, should the moon transmutate to cheese by the combined belief of my cheese loving minions.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm not big into any of the "soft" sciences....


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## robert 14617 (Oct 30, 2009)

i do like the soft cheeses .....


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## shnkrmn (Oct 30, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> My education in physics, neuroscience, and dairy farming leads me to believe that the longer I wait to harvest, the finer the green cheddar of the moon will taste, should the moon transmutate to cheese by the combined belief of my cheese loving minions.


There may be cheese beneath the surface. We must explore further.

Just keeping an open mind


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 30, 2009)

When my thought occurs, changes happen inside my brain.
Permanent changes. Memories.
Memory = thing

Thought becomes thing.

In the real world.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

Faulty thinking = fail


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## shnkrmn (Oct 30, 2009)

No doubt there exist thoughts so profound that most of us will not understand the language in which they are expressed. And no doubt there is also language designed to be unintelligible in order to conceal an absence of honest thought. But how are we to tell the difference? What if it really takes an expert eye to detect whether the emperor has clothes?


Richard Dawkins

who needs a random philosophy generator when there's real philosophy like this:


We can clearly see that there is no bi-univocal correspondence between linear signifying links or archi-writing, depending on the author, and this multireferential, multi-dimensional machinic catalysis. The symmetry of scale, the transversality, the pathic non-discursive character of their expansion: all these dimensions remove us from the logic of the excluded middle and reinforce us in our dismissal of the ontological binarism we criticised previously.


​


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

Wait a sec.... I'll need at least three more bong rips to read that again...


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## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Belief is beyond the boundary of knowledge.


Translation: I do not let simple things like fact distract me from my beliefs.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

A person is free to live in fantasy, but don't drag us down into the same abyss of myth and fantasy.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 30, 2009)

Who has a noose around your neck?

You don't need a noose to be dragged down anywhere.

edit: Which flavor of religion did you fail?

It looks to me like somebody took your head!


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

Religion does.... around all of our necks...


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## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

*Desert* people sought explanation for the world around them, but lacked the means to explain them. Religion provided simple answers, and a

*Woman* became managed property as a byproduct of their misogynistic, controlling belief system.

*Is* there anything redeeming in religion that can't be found elsewhere? Theres no evidence, but we'll keep

*Trolling* for answers.


The deeper meaning of my message came in the form of a revelation, a special communication, from parts unknown. It might be divine intervention, or someone possessing unique and dangerous knowledge. Can we ever really know?


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

........


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 30, 2009)

I'll just put this right here.


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## OregonMeds (Oct 30, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> No doubt there exist thoughts so profound that most of us will not understand the language in which they are expressed. And no doubt there is also language designed to be unintelligible in order to conceal an absence of honest thought. But how are we to tell the difference? What if it really takes an expert eye to detect whether the emperor has clothes?
> 
> 
> Richard Dawkins
> ...


Did this babble have meaning?
I must be too dumb to get it.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 30, 2009)

This has profound meaning to me. "No doubt there exist thoughts so profound that most of us will not understand the language in which they are expressed. And no doubt there is also language designed to be unintelligible in order to conceal an absence of honest thought. But how are we to tell the difference? What if it really takes an expert eye to detect whether the emperor has clothes?"

The rest I didn't understand.

It is not a matter of smart or dumb.

We just speak different languages.

edit: It's like everybody being in the same room speaking loudly in different dialects.

I believe translators are good.


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## shnkrmn (Oct 30, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Did this babble have meaning?
> I must be too dumb to get it.



Dear me, no, of course not; c'est Francais! It's not you at all!


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 30, 2009)

*Dirty stinking atheist creeps in the room*


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## CrackerJax (Oct 30, 2009)

Woodstock, perhaps if you thought about translators when you posted, they would form from ur thoughts and become things. then everyone could understand u.


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## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

This has been bothering me for a bit so I'd like to address it.

When confronting Christians about how nasty Jehovah/Yahweh/God is, they always use the defense that those actions are part of the Old Testament, and they only follow the New Testament and the gospels of Jesus that promise gummi bears and Jagermeister for eternity (if you join the cult)

But then they are quick to use one or more of the following to enforce their arguments:


 J/Y/G created man in his image
 J/Y/G created the universe
Reference Adam and Eve violating J/Y/G's law.
Original sin.
Invoke Noah and the Great Flood.
These are subjects of the Old Testament.

So if they don't live by the Old Testament, and the NT is where all the smart thinking is, why are they using the OT to validate their claims, especially when they dismiss any reference from it regarding the petty and violent actions of the J/Y/G.

Some treat Adam and Eve as a story, and others as literal truth. Yet there are those who consider the story of Eden to be a fable, and consider Original Sin to be real. If Eve was the one who committed the first sin, and you don't believe she was real, how exactly do you end up being born with her sin? And if you're one of those who believe that all suffering in the world is caused by "The Fall", yet will fall back on the "book of parables" defense, how exactly is it reconciled that a parable to teach people a lesson manifests in reality as all the bad stuff in the world.

Noah is invoked to counter geological evidence of tectonic plate activity and the presence of dinosaur fossils. So if Noah is real, then all the other vile and brutal actions of God, including the mass murder of innocent children and animals as retribution for the actions of a few is real.

This all makes just as much sense as them bitching about us being aggressive atheists and challenging their beliefs "Because Christians don't do that to atheists" and then profess the need to put prayer in schools, thereby forcing it on non-Christian children.

And why, when they are in danger of imminent death or dismemberment, do they pray to J/Y/G to save them? Aren't they only moments away from the eternal bliss of heaven? When a family member is dying of a terrible illness, why pray for a cure? Why not pray for a quick death and scoot them into the arms of Jesus? Maybe even trip over the life support power cord and give them a little turbo boost into the arms of the Lord.

Is it just because Heaven is boring? It doesn't take much to get a middle class Islamic teen to strap a bomb to his chest. Just tell him that holding hands with a girl will get her killed, but that he can have all the beautiful virgins he wants if he'll vaporize himself in a food court.

Apparently hanging out with Jesus for eternity is one of those "sounds good on paper" things, but nobody really wants to honor it unless they're so old they don't get up to go to the bathroom any more.
"Take me Jesus, my diaper is full."

I'll take the rationalist approach myself. Be good to friends and family. Help those who are in need. Learn what you can about the naturalistic world and dismiss any baseless supernatural claims. Have kinky godless sex at every opportunity that you can. And go out like a light switch. (Which is highly preferable to "go out like a tie caught in a paper shredder")

I'm more to the point when dissecting the incredible bullshit of the BongHits4Jesus Brigade, so thanks for indulging this ramble


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## PadawanBater (Oct 30, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> This has been bothering me for a bit so I'd like to address it.
> 
> When confronting Christians about how nasty Jehovah/Yahweh/God is, they always use the defense that those actions are part of the Old Testament, and they only follow the New Testament and the gospels of Jesus that promise gummi bears and Jagermeister for eternity (if you join the cult)
> 
> ...


 
That bit is brilliant man, you should go post that in the https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/263592-simple-questions-about-beliefs-2.html thread!


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## morgentaler (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm too confrontational for that thread 
It's already falling apart and I don't want to fan the flames


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## DJBoxhouse (Oct 31, 2009)

Roasting marshmallows was always my thing with fires.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Oct 31, 2009)

You don't smell that bad to me.
Perhaps its the part you keep hidden.


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## morgentaler (Oct 31, 2009)

http://www.au.org/media/press-releases/archives/2009/10/pat-robertsons-christian.html

And Christians wonder why people who appreciate facts and evidence won't give their beliefs the time of day.

Warning: This story contains more than the daily recommended intake of stupid. Do not swallow.


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## CrackerJax (Oct 31, 2009)

Robertson is a complete loon. Smart enough to manipulate tons of desperate ppl though.... nice


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 31, 2009)

Quick...let's all point and laugh at Pat Robertson....BUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!What a fucktard he is.


morgentaler said:


> http://www.au.org/media/press-releases/archives/2009/10/pat-robertsons-christian.html
> 
> And Christians wonder why people who appreciate facts and evidence won't give their beliefs the time of day.
> 
> Warning: This story contains more than the daily recommended intake of stupid. Do not swallow.


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## OregonMeds (Oct 31, 2009)

"&#8220;demons&#8221; sneak into bags of Halloween candy at grocery stores.
&#8220;[M]ost of the candy sold during this season has been dedicated and prayed over by witches,&#8221; Daniels wrote. &#8220;I do not buy candy during the Halloween season. Curses are sent through the tricks and treats of the innocent whether they get it by going door to door or by purchasing it from the local grocery store. The demons cannot tell the difference.&#8221;"


That's beyond fucktard, he needs to be in a straightjacket put away in a rubber room somewhere where he can't infect others any longer.


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## Johnnyorganic (Oct 31, 2009)

My Halloween candy must be demonically possessed. I keep hearing voices in my head telling me to eat it.

Maybe *Big Candy* did it so I would have to go buy some more before dark tonight.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 31, 2009)

they must be girl demons


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 31, 2009)

All hail the demon High Fructose Corn Syrup and his sticky sweetness!


Johnnyorganic said:


> My Halloween candy must be demonically possessed. I keep hearing voices in my head telling me to eat it.
> 
> Maybe *Big Candy* did it so I would have to go buy some more before dark tonight.


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## Woomeister (Oct 31, 2009)

Ive been scoffing on chocolate bats and tombstones all night...


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## Stoney McFried (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm gonna have a hell of a time keeping the old man outta my little girl's candy.Especially if there are Butterfingers.


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## Woomeister (Oct 31, 2009)

Hotel chocolat.co.uk

 
*Uh oh! 4 Halloween Tablets *

<LI class=catADDTOBASKET>£7.00 Add To Basket <LI class=catREFERENCE>Ref.: 430013 Took my family here today and we all had real hot chocolate and some yummie treats, my little boy loved saying that he ate a bats bum!!!


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## wakeandbake (Nov 1, 2009)

I think if i understand your original post then the output of this "pulse processing engine" would be future or current benefit depending upon the nature of the 'input'
I think the god concept is directed at an individual source of creation, love etc......... not the output of cause and effect


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## wakeandbake (Nov 1, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> It shows that almost exclusively... ppl with higher IQ's kow better...
> 
> One causality would be the smarter you are, the more control you have over ur personal environment.
> 
> Easy answers are like ornaments on a tree. Glittery but not much real purpose. It's the tree of knowledge which is the true goal, not the ornaments which are hung there by others.


I dont think IQ is an accurate measure of an individuals wisdom. Hitler was an intelligent guy but he certainly didnt have the wisdom to see what he was doing was wrong. IQ is a measure of a persons ability to deal logically with a given situation, but logic does not always encompass wisdom


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## morgentaler (Nov 1, 2009)

And IQ tests have been found to be culturally biased as well, but assuming two individuals are from the same general background it would be interesting to see how they fare against one another.
A more practical and extensive test involving adaptation to positive and negative feedback, memory, etc. would be a good experiment, but if you tried to attach electrodes to CJ's genitals he'd probably shoot you.

Cool avatar. It's a toss up between wanting to smoke it, or take it to my leader.
It looks like an octopus monster made of weed.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 1, 2009)

Is it true Hitler shot IV methamphetamine five times a day?

Perhaps he also drank meth in his bong water like these folks?

https://www.rollitup.org/legal-edge/263112-seven-years-two-months-bong.html

edit: 

Maybe it really does make addicts lose their minds like Hitler when they drink the bong water after they run out of beer and silver paint.

Somebody save the hippies! 

Quick! Somebody put them in jail with fines if they possess the devil's liqueur!

Only the emperor's liquor is allowed around these parts.


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## morgentaler (Nov 1, 2009)

Wikipedia doesn't give specifics but indicates it was suspected. It wouldn't have been out of place at the time. German soldiers were able to blitzkrieg in part because of the availability of amphetamines. The foot soldiers could go for 2 days at a time without sleep.
Combine traumatic stress, sleep deprivation, and weapons, and you suddenly have a recipe for war crimes.


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## OregonMeds (Nov 1, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Is it true Hitler shot IV methamphetamine five times a day?
> 
> Perhaps he also drank meth in his bong water like these folks?
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/legal-edge/263112-seven-years-two-months-bong.html


Yes it is true that he was a meth addict but I don't know the number of shots per day.

His personal doctor Theodor Morell gave him meth more than daily for sure in a few different forms but it wasn't thought of as a drug by hitler it was thought of as vitamins. Our soldiers were given meth also, so were the japanese.


He had a lot of medical problems and wouldn't have made it half as far without meth. Meth didn't make him crazy either he was crazy before, I'm sure it made things worse but it wasn't the start of the problem.


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## DEXTER MORGAN (Nov 1, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> To me, being an atheist is extremely enlightening. Tyler Durdens quote from Fight Club puts it in perspective... &quot;it's only when you've lost everything that you're free to do anything&quot;. Being a believer, you are confined to your little box of conformity, you believe what your told to believe because if you don't, you won't get into the special club after you die. If you simply question it you're risking your entry.
> 
> -for me, this is clear evidence of strike one. Only man could put such a rule into the requirement for belief. An omnipotent being wouldn't think of it and if it did, the consequences for questioning ones belief would be praised, not punished, for using that which your creater specifically gave to you in the first place. Knowledge. We wouldn't have it if we weren't supposed to use it.
> 
> ...


You will have to forgive me, but I didnt read every +600 posts in this thread. It was hard enough for me (an atheist) to get past your first post. The red and blue pill scenario isnt at all a good example. Do you think everybody who believes in Jesus quits science? Quits trying to obtain a higher education? Obviously not. I dont entirely disagree with you, but it seems like you have already put everybody into one group. Only something a small and closed minded person would do. You also said that people need to stop spreading misconceptions about atheists, well, I think you should do the same about believers. Why cant you accept the fact that we are all different? We always have been and we always will be.


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## Stoney McFried (Nov 1, 2009)

Talk to some of the believers on this site and you'll see why he worded it the way he did.


DEXTER MORGAN said:


> You will have to forgive me, but I didnt read every +600 posts in this thread. It was hard enough for me (an atheist) to get past your first post. The red and blue pill scenario isnt at all a good example. Do you think everybody who believes in Jesus quits science? Quits trying to obtain a higher education? Obviously not. I dont entirely disagree with you, but it seems like you have already put everybody into one group. Only something a small and closed minded person would do. You also said that people need to stop spreading misconceptions about atheists, well, I think you should do the same about believers. Why cant you accept the fact that we are all different? We always have been and we always will be.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 1, 2009)

Religion is polite until it is questioned.... then the hysterics begin.


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## PadawanBater (Nov 1, 2009)

DEXTER MORGAN said:


> You will have to forgive me, but I didnt read every +600 posts in this thread. It was hard enough for me (an atheist) to get past your first post. The red and blue pill scenario isnt at all a good example. Do you think everybody who believes in Jesus quits science? Quits trying to obtain a higher education? Obviously not. I dont entirely disagree with you, but it seems like you have already put everybody into one group. Only something a small and closed minded person would do. You also said that people need to stop spreading misconceptions about atheists, well, I think you should do the same about believers. Why cant you accept the fact that we are all different? We always have been and we always will be.


Not sure where I implied every believer quits science. There are plenty of _believers_ who are/were great scientists. 

What I did imply was that it takes a certain kind of of person to be a good scientist, and someone clouded by religion falls short of discovering things because of their personal conflicts of interest that their religion brings. Atheism is completely different in that it does not require one to believe *in *anything, it's simply the *lack *of a belief. A perfect example of this is how fundamentalists deny the theory of evolution because they believe it contradicts their creation story. Religion is directly responsible for limiting these peoples ability to reason and figure things out as things should be figured out, through the scientific method. Lets be honest, evolution is a fact, it's not something someone cooked up because they were pissed at authority, there is no alterior agenda the scientific theory of evolution is pushing. The only reason they deny it is because they believe if it's right, their theory* is wrong. Exactly the same with the big bang theory... 

*ID is *not *a theory in the scientific meaning of the term. It's creationism.

This thread was started because of some of the content being pushed by certain individuals on the forum. I was sick of it. So I guess that's my fault for not adding that to the beginning so the thread isn't taken out of context. 

I thought the Matrix analogy was pretty spot on... Morpheus (science, reason, logic) tells Neo if he follows the right path and takes the blue pill (becomes an atheist, loses religion and "free's his mind") it will open up his mind and let him "see how deep the rabbit hole goes" (discover the world, existence, reality, without *anything* stopping him or holding him back). 

Hollywood is shit most of the time, but every once in a while you can gain a little bit of wisdom from stuff if you know where to look for it. 

Peace. 



Stoney McFried said:


> Talk to some of the believers on this site and you'll see why he worded it the way he did.


Exactly right. I don't even know how many times I have to repeat "this does not apply to every believer"... in every single thread I enter that discusses religion, I feel like I have to add that little formality on the beginning so people don't get offended, and yet they still do...


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## PadawanBater (Nov 1, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Religion is polite until it is questioned.... then the hysterics begin.


Sig worthy quote CrackerJax.

Someone give this guy some rep on my behalf!


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## CrackerJax (Nov 1, 2009)




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## robert 14617 (Nov 1, 2009)

because i said so ...it always seemed to work on the kids


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## CrackerJax (Nov 1, 2009)

Get'em while their young and vulnerable.... that's always nice.


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## shnkrmn (Nov 1, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Sig worthy quote CrackerJax.
> 
> Someone give this guy some rep on my behalf!


I give him all I can, . . . even though we don't see I to I. . . . .


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## CrackerJax (Nov 1, 2009)

U to U....?


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## MexicanWarlord420 (Nov 1, 2009)

8===d~~~ ( . Y . )


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## morgentaler (Nov 1, 2009)

I figure the other science-minded atheists would appreciate this. Eugenie Scott talks about Ray Comforts bastardized editing of The Origin of Species for his creationist evangelizing.

*How Creationist 'Origin' Distorts Darwin*
By Eugenie C. Scott, Ph.D. 

Ray Comfort and I agree that "science is a wonderful discipline, to which we are deeply indebted." We agree that it would be nice for students to get a free copy of Darwins best-known book, _On the Origin of Species_. I'll even go further than he might: The_ Origin_ _&#8212;_like Shakespeare and the Bible&#8212;should be on every educated person's bookshelf. If you don't understand evolution, you can't be considered scientifically literate. And we agree that students should read the _Origin_ thoroughly.


Unfortunately, it will be hard to thoroughly read the version that Comfort will be distributing on college campuses in November. The copy his publisher sent me is missing no fewer than four crucial chapters, as well as Darwin's introduction. Two of the omitted chapters, Chapters 11 and 12, showcase biogeography, some of Darwin's strongest evidence for evolution. Which is a better explanation for the distribution of plants and animals around the planet: common ancestry or special creation? Which better explains why island species are more similar to species on the mainland closest to them, rather than to more distant species that share a similar environment? The answer clearly is common ancestry. Today, scientists continue to develop the science of biogeography, confirming, refining, and extending Darwin's conclusions.


Likewise missing from Comfort's bowdlerized version of the _Origin_ is Chapter 13, where Darwin explained how evolution makes sense of classification, morphology, and embryology. To take a simple example, why do all land vertebrates (amphibians, mammals, and reptiles and birds) have four limbs? Not because four limbs are necessarily a superior design for land locomotion: insects have six, arachnids have eight, and millipedes have, well, lots. It's because all land vertebrates descended with modification from a four-legged ("tetrapod") ancestor. Since Darwin's era, scientists have repeatedly confirmed that the more recently two species have shared a common ancestor, the more similar are their anatomy, their biochemistry, their embryology, and their genetics.


"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution," as a famous geneticist said. That's why evolution is taught matter-of-factly in the biology and geology departments of every respected university in the country, secular or sectarian, from Berkeley to Brigham Young. That's why the National Academy of Sciences and the American Association for the Advancement of Science wholeheartedly endorse the teaching of evolution in the public schools. That's why thousands of papers applying, extending, or refining evolution are published in the scientific research literature every year.


But there's no reason for students to refuse Comfort's free&#8212;albeit suspiciously abridged&#8212;copy of the _Origin_. Read the first eight pages of the introduction, which is a reasonably accurate, if derivative, sketch of Darwin's life. The last 10 pages or so are devoted to some rather heavy-handed evangelism, which doesn't really have anything to do with the history or content of the evolutionary sciences; read it or not as you please.


But don't waste your time with the middle section of the introduction, a hopeless mess of long-ago-refuted creationist arguments, teeming with misinformation about the science of evolution, populated by legions of strawmen, and exhibiting what can be charitably described as muddled thinking.


For example, Comfort's treatment of the human fossil record is painfully superficial, out of date, and erroneous. Piltdown Man and Nebraska Man&#8212;one a forgery, the other a misidentification, both rejected by science more than 50 years ago&#8212;are trotted out for scorn, as if they somehow negate the remaining huge volume of human fossils. There are more specimens of "Ardi" (the newly described _Ardipithecus ramidus_)than there are of _Tyrannosaurus_ _&#8212;_and any 8-year-old aspiring paleontologist will be delighted to tell you how much we know about the _T._ _rex_!


But you wouldn't learn any of this from reading Comfort's introduction. He says, "Java Man [a _Homo erectus_], found in the early 20th century, was nothing more than a piece of skull, a fragment of a thigh bone, and three molar teeth." Well, that was from a single site&#8212;excavated in the 1890s. What about the dozens of other sites where fossils of _H. erectus _are found, from China to Kenya to Georgia? Another whopper: "Java Man is now regarded as fully human." Trust me, if one sat down next to you on the bus, you would know the difference.


In fact, the fossil record for the human lineage is impressive, providing the evidence on which our understanding of the big events of human evolution is based. We and modern chimpanzees shared a common ancestor millions of years ago; the main feature separating us from our chimpanzee cousins is bipedalism, followed by toolmaking, and then brain expansion, and then the substantial elaboration of behavior we call human culture. More fossils will provide more details, but this outline of human evolution is not in serious doubt among scientists.


It's not just human evolution that Comfort misrepresents. His main gripe is the old creationist standby, the supposed lack of transitional forms in the fossil record. (Darwin addressed the objection in Chapter 9 of the _Origin, _interestingly not included in Comfort's version.) Comfort sneers at the fossil evidence for the terrestrial ancestry of whales and the dinosaurian ancestry of birds. Too bad for him that he has a knack for picking bad examples: There are splendid fossils of dinosaurs that have feathers and of whales that have legs&#8212;and even feet. Faced with ignorance like this, I'm reminded of a jeremiad: "Oh foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."


But if you are willing to use your ears to listen to what paleontologists say about transitional features and use your eyes to look at the evidence described in the scientific literature (as well as displayed in many museums and science centers around the country), you will find transitional fossils galore. There are clear transitional series from aquatic vertebrates to land vertebrates, from primitive land vertebrates to mammals, from dinosaurs to birds, from land vertebrates to whales, and of course a wonderful series of fossils leading to _Homo sapiens. _A good place to begin is a marvelous website dismissively mentioned (and erroneously described) in Comfort's introduction, the University of California Museum of Paleontology's Understanding Evolution.


This year marks the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth and the 150th anniversary of the publication of _On the_ _Origin of Species_, both occasions worth celebrating by anyone who cares about our understanding of the natural world. So it's no surprise that creationists are trying to piggyback on the festivities with cynical publicity stunts like Comfort's. But I have faith that college students are sharp enough to realize that Comfort's take on Darwin and evolution is simply bananas.


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## PadawanBater (Nov 2, 2009)

[youtube]Ri9Ftdk2n6w#[/youtube]

This is why science wins.

Brian Cox at TED FTW!!


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## DJBoxhouse (Nov 2, 2009)

Anyone ever think the simple idea that somebody is hanging out in the background, the curtains of reality, watching the 'play' unfold? It's creepy as shit if you think about it. 

Same thing with Santa, I was always scared of him, honestly. The idea that he could lay down divine retribution on the one time of year that's celebrated the most in my family based off some loose end morals and sense of belief that I was a naughty boy - and this was concluded by watching me. All.The.Time. the bitch even knew when I was asleep, even if my eyes were closed. He knew. So I thought. I found him scarier than the boogie man. When I was a child, I got scared by shadows, I turned on the light and did a thorough investigation about it rather than cowering in fear. When the lights went back off and I saw it again, I knew what it was. I just spent an hour looking at EVERYTHING in my room. Santa though, I couldn't prove it, he was a sneaky prick by all reports. gives me the heebie jeebies.


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## cooker06 (Nov 2, 2009)

even if your atheist and you die and there is (nothing)...... doesn't that nothing also equall the joining together of nothing. everyone joins in nothing still...


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## CrackerJax (Nov 2, 2009)

Nothing cannot join anything. 

There is every bit of evidence that you are recycled after death. You are an agreement of atoms, which have come together and made you who you are. Just like a frog is a frog. An agreement of atoms at the base level (though not the lowest base). 

When enough atoms have left the host (you) via dead cells which are not regenerated by stem cells, the host perishes. The atoms live on. Recycled, they form other agreements, and so on. 

If there is an immortal in the room, it is the atom. 

Science has revealed a sliver of immortality that no religion has ever come close to.


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## PadawanBater (Nov 2, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Science has revealed a sliver of immortality that no religion has ever come close to.


 
Damnit I hate feeding your ego but that deserves a nod. 

Great quote man, when you put it in that perspective, non existence doesn't really feel quite like _non existence_ anymore...


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## CrackerJax (Nov 2, 2009)

But G*D made everything seen and unforseen, so I guess G*D has it covered..... right?


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## morgentaler (Nov 2, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> If there is an immortal in the room, it is the atom.


OMG, I just came 

(kidding)

Definitely quotable.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 2, 2009)

Science isn't a rebuttal to religion. It's simply a better tool. Immensely better.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 2, 2009)

Now I'm really scared!

Thoughts become things.

edit:

and then not.

I've never seen a thread's post #### go down before.

The beastly number moves from post to post?


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## Brazko (Nov 2, 2009)

"You can Make It if You Try"



[youtube]cZ98xymQKE0[/youtube]


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## OregonMeds (Nov 2, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Nothing cannot join anything.
> 
> There is every bit of evidence that you are recycled after death. You are an agreement of atoms, which have come together and made you who you are. Just like a frog is a frog. An agreement of atoms at the base level (though not the lowest base).
> 
> ...


God has blessed you with a moment of exceptional clarity.


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## PadawanBater (Nov 2, 2009)

[youtube]mbef07aQtB8&feature=rec-HM-rn#[/youtube]

Highlighting what would happen if all atheists were to leave America. Details of who would leave, what would change, and a look at other countries with virtually no Atheism.

SOURCES:
Over 10% of American population are atheist:
http://www.atheistempire.com/referenc... 

Less than 0.25% of prisoners are atheist:
http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm 

Majority of Nobel Prize winners atheist:
The Religiosity and Religious Affiliation of Nobel Prize Winners (Beit-Hallahmi, 1989)

Majority of University professors atheist:
Religion and Spirituality among University Scientists (Ecklund, 2007)

Majority of scientists atheist:
http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Scie...

Atheist Intellectuals:
http://brainz.org/50-most-brilliant-a...
http://www.celebatheists.com/?title=C...

Atheist Celebrities:
http://www.celebatheists.com/?title=M... 

Poverty rate lower among atheists:
Society Without God (Zuckerman, 200

IQ higher among atheists:
http://www.interfaith.org/2008/06/20/... 

Illiteracy rate lower among atheists:
United Nations Human Development Report (2004)

Average Income higher among atheists:
United Nations Human Development Report (2004)

Divorce rate lower among atheists:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr... 

Teen pregnancy rate lower among atheists:
http://www.americablog.com/2009/01/re... 

Abortions lower among atheists:
Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (Paul, 2005)

STD infection lower among atheists:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news... 

Crime rate lower among atheists:
Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (Paul, 2005)

Homicide rate lower among atheists:
Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (Paul, 2005)

Percentage of atheists in the countries mentioned:
http://www.adherents.com


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## OregonMeds (Nov 2, 2009)

I don't think too many of those statitics on the percentage of athiests can be accurate in places where you could get beaten/locked up/tortured/killed for being an infidel. Even if you didn't fear that, you'd have to worry about people looking at you different or loosing business support or work or just being nagged at constantly if anyone knew.

Those people really have religion forced upon them hard and if they all (men and women) were truly free to express opinions there might be a much higher percentage of non believers just because of how bad it really is.

Just saying...


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## Stoney McFried (Nov 2, 2009)

*Celeb defections, court issues test Scientology*







By Eric Gorski The Associated Press 1:13 p.m. EST, November 2, 2009


The Church of Scientology is going through a difficult season.

Over the course of two days last week, a French court convicted the church of fraud and Oscar-winning filmmaker Paul Haggis' resignation from the church over a litany of concerns was aired publicly. On one hand, it was just another bad press week for the embattled institution founded in 1953 by the late science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard.

But for former Scientologists and scholars of the movement, the setbacks pose a greater challenge coming on the heels of defections of top-level Scientologists who lifted a veil of secrecy on the organization and alleged a culture of violence and control under Hubbard's successor, David Miscavige.

"With any organization, the loss of a substantial number of your most experienced people and chaos at the upper levels is problematic," said David Bromley, a Virginia Commonwealth University professor who studies new religious movements and has written on Scientology. "There are PR implications, the possibility of legal actions ... That dwarfs the other things."

The church has strenuously denied the allegations against Miscavige, portraying the accusers as lying disgruntled ex-employees.

Church spokesman Tommy Davis said Scientology is flourishing, with more than 8,000 Scientology churches, missions and groups in 160-plus nations. He said assets and property holdings have doubled over the past five years, including a new church in Rome and another opening this weekend in Washington, D.C.

"From our perspective, things are going pretty great," Davis said. "In fact, that's downplaying it. Actually, what's happening with the church right now is frankly spectacular. To the degree there are these various things happening, it really is a lot of noise."

One major survey of American religion shows Scientology declining in the U.S., however. The estimated number of Americans who identify as Scientologists rose from 45,000 in 1990 to 55,000 in 2001, then plummeted to 25,000 in 2008, according to the American Religion Identification Survey.

Davis said that while the church avoids membership estimates, it's "absolutely in the millions" globally and growing in the U.S.

Scientology has long been controversial. United States tax authorities granted the church tax exemption in 1993 after a nearly four-decade battle over whether it should be considered a religion. Critics say Scientology is a business, preying on people by charging exorbitant sums for services.

The church continues to fascinate, fueled by interest in celebrity adherents such as Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Kirstie Alley, as well as beliefs that don't fit into typical American religious boxes.

Hubbard taught that the "thetan," the equivalent of a spirit, can be cleared of negative energy from this and previous lives through a process called auditing. With the aid of auditors, Scientologists seek a state called "Clear" and then advance through various levels of "Operating Thetan."

The allegations of violence were leveled by four former high-ranking Scientology executives who told their stories to the St. Petersburg Times last summer. The executives said they witnessed Miscavige, chairman of the board that oversees the church, hit staff members dozens of times and urged others to do the same.

Davis called the allegations "absolutely, unquestionably false" and "sickening and outrageous." ABC's "Nightline" aired a report this month covering much of the same ground.

To critics of Scientology and ex-members who have grown increasingly vocal in recent years, it's a breakthrough -- critical voices from former members of the inner circle, not the media or outsiders.

"When you have dozens of people speaking out, it's no longer too credible to say they're all malcontents and criminals," said Jeff Hawkins, a former Scientology marketing guru who defected in 2005. "(The church) is either going to reform or collapse, and I think it's going to be the latter because they're incapable of reform or admitting any wrongdoing."

One defector, Marty Rathbun, who served on the church's board and was a top lieutenant of Miscavige's, said a growing movement of people hold to the tenets of Scientology, but reject the institutional church.

"I don't foresee another church," Rathbun said. "That was the first attack on me -- that this was a coup, that I'm trying to tap a schism or start another church ... That's not an objective of mine or a positive way to go."

Haggis, the Oscar-winning director of " Crash," was not a high-ranking Scientologist. But his defection is significant, said actor Jason Beghe, who left the church in 2007 and has become a critic.

"He was somebody the Scientology community was proud of, and therefore I'm sure he helped hold some of their base in place," said Beghe, who appeared in the film "G.I. Jane" and TV's "Everwood" and is cast in Haggis' next film, now shooting in Pittsburgh. "Anybody who is a Scientologist is harboring doubts."

It was Rathbun who obtained a copy of Haggis' critical letter to Davis and posted it on his blog. Haggis complained that Davis didn't do enough to distance Scientology from proponents of California's gay marriage ban. He criticized the church's "smearing" of the high-level defectors.

The filmmaker also wrote about the church's practice of "disconnection," in which members cut off contact with loved ones who leave or advocate against the religion -- something Davis said is not mandated.

A day after Haggis' letter went public, a Paris court convicted the Church of Scientology of fraud and fined it more than $900,000, but stopped short of banning the group's activities in France. The organization's French branch likened it to a modern-day Inquisition and said it would appeal.

Davis questioned the attention paid to the French verdict, saying that little notice was given when the church won court victories in Italy and Russia that cemented the church's presence in those countries. He said the top-level defections are not troubling, but rather a gain for the church.

Some scholars of Scientology believe the recent setbacks are momentary.

Defectors are overly optimistic about doing any real damage, said J. Gordon Melton, director of the Institute for the Study of American Religion in Santa Barbara, California, and editor of a book on Scientology.

"If five cardinals walked out of the Roman Catholic Church and turned on it and said there are bad things happening, it'd be a storm, but the church would weather the storm," Melton said. "I think Scientology is big enough to where it can and will weather the storm."

Most religions, Scientology included, experience disagreement and leadership turmoil after a founder's death and survive, said Susan Palmer, a religious studies professor at Dawson College in Montreal.

"I think they'll end up like the Mormon church or Jehovah's Witnesses, that were very controversial in our time but now are largely accepted," Palmer said.

Others think the Church of Scientology is in trouble. Along with the defections and French court setback, Scientology has been unable to stop Internet leaks of confidential material that members must pay a premium for, said Hugh Urban, a professor in the department of comparative studies at Ohio State University.

"They're really losing what has been the bread and butter," Urban said.

Meanwhile, an online betting parlor is taking wagers on the next celebrity Scientologist to leave.


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## OregonMeds (Nov 2, 2009)

Now now don't make fun of scientology... I can see it coming, people want to rip it apart but really it's no more laughable than the others, just the newest.

Pretty fucking insane granted, but even france didn't throw them out. Maybe it would have set a bad precedent in someones eyes.


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## morgentaler (Nov 2, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> I've never seen a user's post count go down before.


My post count went down?


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## CrackerJax (Nov 2, 2009)

If a thread is DELETED, everyone who posted on that thread loses their posts.


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## shnkrmn (Nov 2, 2009)

Scientology is hard not to rip on. They don't spread by going around washing the feet of the poor, do they?



OregonMeds said:


> Now now don't make fun of scientology... I can see it coming, people want to rip it apart but really it's no more laughable than the others, just the newest.
> 
> Pretty fucking insane granted, but even france didn't throw them out. Maybe it would have set a bad precedent in someones eyes.


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## OregonMeds (Nov 2, 2009)

So one more obviously rips people off than another, who's place is it to say the lord didn't want more obvious rippingoffness and a newer pile of crap for the people to choke on?


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## shnkrmn (Nov 2, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> So one more obviously rips people off than another, who's place is it to say the lord didn't want more obvious rippingoffness and a newer pile of crap for the people to choke on?


I guess straight up 'fee for service' religion really impresses me for honesty; it's a business.


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## morgentaler (Nov 2, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> If a thread is DELETED, everyone who posted on that thread loses their posts.


I wonder which one it would be, as the one that got locked after I Iet Babs have it is still there.


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## PadawanBater (Nov 2, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I wonder which one it would be, as the one that got locked after I Iet Babs have it is still there.


 
Speaking of her.. did she finally get enough of it or what? I haven't seen her around the forum for a while...


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## Johnnyorganic (Nov 2, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Speaking of her.. did she finally get enough of it or what? I haven't seen her around the forum for a while...


She declared the debate *over* as god is not debatable (she claims).

She's the one in the corner with her fingers plugged into her ears, rocking back and forth, and loudly humming *Onward Christian Soldiers*.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 2, 2009)

It can be debated....just not by her...


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## morgentaler (Nov 2, 2009)

I think once she realized we were on to the fact that she gets all her arguments from chain letter emails the game was up.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 2, 2009)

A chink in the chain mail?


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## HIGHFLY (Nov 2, 2009)

Rastafari one love


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## morgentaler (Nov 2, 2009)

I am saddened that the other atheists did not undersign the open letter to Christians 
Waaaaaah!

Okay, I'm better now.

So, think of all those people out there waiting for the Rapture. Just suppose for a second that zombie Jesus wasn't a fictional comic book hero. He was supposed to come back for his faithful right away. So suppose he did, and the reason it wasn't written down is that the only witnesses went "bye-bye to the sky-sky" and filled up all 144,000 slots. So all the Christians sitting around waiting for the sky elevator would just be pissing in the wind until oblivion or hell sucks them in.

What a predicament that would be.

Good thing the only thing they have to worry about is if their priest is molesting their kids.

Whew!


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## PadawanBater (Nov 2, 2009)

Dude, anyone seen the trailer for that new movie Legion? Haha, "the first time God lost faith in man, he sent a flood... this time... he sent ANGELS!!!"

Looks pretty fuckin' stupid if you ask me... lol


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## morgentaler (Nov 2, 2009)

It has Paul Bettany in it. I'll watch it just for that. 
I enjoyed the Prophecy movies for Christopher Walken's role, plus I don't mind it when religion is used for entertainment. Thor comics, Hercules TV show, Supernatural. It's all just as real as Jesus.


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## Johnnyorganic (Nov 2, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> It has Paul Bettany in it. I'll watch it just for that.
> I enjoyed the Prophecy movies for Christopher Walken's role, plus I don't mind it when religion is used for entertainment. Thor comics, Hercules TV show, Supernatural. It's all just as real as Jesus.


The bible would have been *much* more entertaining if it explained the virgin birth away with midichlorians...

or had wookies in it.


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## morgentaler (Nov 2, 2009)

In the King James Version they replaced the Wookies with Ewoks.


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## OregonMeds (Nov 2, 2009)

I bet if you look hard enough you'll find some desciption in the bible like a hairy beast with red eyes, and breath like fire that duth speaketh in strange toungues... 

Wookie. 

They didn't have a word for that yet is all so it got all mixed up and now we have devil where it should say wookie.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 3, 2009)

The SECRET is finally revealed....


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## morgentaler (Nov 3, 2009)

Ick. Government mandated *fraudulent *religious healthcare.

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/11/and-healthcare-reform-disaster.html


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## OregonMeds (Nov 3, 2009)

"would require insurers to consider covering"

Required sounds so strong until you see it says required to consider. That can and will mean the same as denied.


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## zelfna90 (Nov 3, 2009)

I guess im the only christian who smokes the magical herb lol


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## CrackerJax (Nov 3, 2009)

I wish every christian indulged in the weed.


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## morgentaler (Nov 3, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> "would require insurers to consider covering"
> 
> Required sounds so strong until you see it says required to consider. That can and will mean the same as denied.


Only until you get an insurance company headed by someone (not even necessarily a Christian) who believes that it's worthwhile to pay out the minimal costs of "faith healing" rather than the real science.

Let's see, $20 dollars a day to have someone stand over your bed and chant, or $500 a day for this medicine.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 3, 2009)




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## Johnnyorganic (Nov 3, 2009)




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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 3, 2009)

Can:
Zombie=Beast?
or
Beast=Secular Scientist?
or
Beast=mutant comic book character?
or
Atheist=Lacking God?

To which post in this thread is #666 attached to now?

.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 3, 2009)

All four named are beasts....


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## PadawanBater (Nov 3, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


>


 
LMFAO, Epic Win!


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## robert 14617 (Nov 3, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Can Zombie=Beast?


rob zombie




 
 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rob+zombie+dragula&search_type=&aq=0&oq=rob+zombie+# Added to 
Quicklist

3:48

*Rob Zombie* - *Dragula*


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## morgentaler (Nov 3, 2009)

It seems that incredibly bad writing and formatting skills are an integral part of wingnut culture:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/11/worst_campaign_website_ever.php?utm_source=mostactive&utm_medium=link


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## Stoney McFried (Nov 5, 2009)

Good grief.Can I get some money for waving a chicken bone over myself when I get a cold?


morgentaler said:


> Ick. Government mandated *fraudulent *religious healthcare.
> 
> http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/11/and-healthcare-reform-disaster.html


Yow, get down!


CrackerJax said:


>


I love you.


Johnnyorganic said:


>


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## Johnnyorganic (Nov 7, 2009)

Food for thought....

The Paradoxical Relationship of Religion and Science

Believers may keep up your hunger strike, but please do not claim you were not offered a Knowledge Burger.


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## morgentaler (Nov 7, 2009)

If priests have a direct line to god, does that mean when they're molesting children it's just Jesus having phone sex?


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## Twiz420 (Nov 7, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> If priests have a direct line to god, does that mean when they're molesting children it's just Jesus having phone sex?


I'd hate to see that phone bill


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## potka (Nov 7, 2009)

religion is ignorance


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## Twiz420 (Nov 7, 2009)

potka said:


> religion is ignorance


True; and ignorance is bliss, and bliss is similar to ecstasy, ecstasy is also a name for a drug; so those "jesus" wafers must be drugs!


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## potka (Nov 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted by morgentaler
> Ick. Government mandated fraudulent religious healthcare.
> 
> http://shakespearessister.blogspot.c...-disaster.html


Saw that in the newspaper not that long ago... i hate illinois


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## naked gardener (Nov 7, 2009)

I read about the first 15 pages and then skipped around till the end (sorry, but this f*#@er is loooong), and just want to say I love and appreciate the opening post and especially enjoyed the contributions of morgantaler (?) and crackerjax....right on. 

just a few quick comments....I no longer debate about religion, when you are trying to reason w someone who bases their perspective solely on myth, it is, as Stonymcfried said, mentally exhausting. Simply, some people get it, some people don't. But I don't think it's a matter of convincing or persuasion (as is it is for religious institutions trying to gain converts in order to strengthen their establishment), I think it is a matter of personal experience and conscientiousness that either will or will not lend itself to that enlightenment and freedom of thought.

In the beg. of the thread, the relationship (or lack thereof) between religion and enlightenment was briefly discussed and I just want to add that yes--enlightenment is absolutely freedom from religion (like dude said). Historically speaking the Period of Enlightenment is defined by HUMAN accomplishment and capacity--it was a celebration of MAN (generically speaking, ahem), and fostered a huge break from the est. church, (the protestant reformation) as well as ideas of democracy & a separation of church and state--meaning no man should be governed in any way based upon another mans fairytale ideas (this, credited mainly to jefferson & franklin-- both enlightenment thinkers, and widely thought to be atheists.)


Anyway, one of my favorite things you pointed out, Padawanbater, was the fact that THIS IS IT!! Not only does that simple reality clarify that all the centuries of brutal violence and horrific fates (witch hunts, crusades, inquisition, manifest destiny etc), all in the name of religion were in vain and just barbaric, not to mention all the other energy (and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$) spent on it being, well, in the end, a pretty lousy investment

But to understand that THIS IS IT is also profound in that, simply,,,,
WE ARE HERE. As a true miracle of nature (not god in the sky), ...and that is pretty amazing itself. And in not even the blink of times eye we will be gone. We are all sharing a very brief moment together. And when it's gone, it's gone for all of us, and it's gone forever...and what are we doing with it? (worshipping god? killing for god? arguing about god? judging and alienating others for god?--not me)

How can love of a god, any god, lend itself to hatred and violence toward fellow man, and oftentimes a disregard to nature....
It's all just so antithetical to any god i'd want to blindly worship anyway.

Now, some eastern philosophies are a different story--for inner spirituality (whatever that really even is) and a connection to nature and calmness (that's what i dig--i definitely feel most "spiritual" in nature)

I did not originally intend to type this long....

Wonderful thread. thanks.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 8, 2009)

Naked is going to hell...


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 8, 2009)

Naked Gardeners can understand the difficulty of using only a stick to explain circles to those that understand only squares.

I believe Atheists experience joyous freedom once released from the Mythical Shackles of Faith, 

not hate of the Gods of others, nor faith in The Devil.

Hippie tip:

The above sentence was intended to bring focus back to the original post of the thread.


----------



## shnkrmn (Nov 8, 2009)

I would say atheism is freedom from the bogus shackles of faith, not lack of faith.

Atheists de facto do not have faith in the devil.

Atheists do not hate the gods of others. One cannot hate that which does not exist.





Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Naked Gardeners can understand the difficulty of using only a stick to explain circles to those that understand only squares.
> 
> I believe Atheism to be the lack of Faith, not hate of the Gods of others, nor faith in The Devil.
> 
> ...


----------



## oogp (Nov 8, 2009)

Jesus is God/Lord  1 tim 3:16


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 8, 2009)

Rather, they believe Jesus, The Father and The Holy Spirit all form the Godhead instead.


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 8, 2009)

I think it would be a fair statement to say that Christianity, since it is a male dominant religion, if never adopted as the western world religion per se; I think it could be said that women wouldn't have had to wait till the 20th century to achieve equal rights. 
Christianity has been a very effective weight to keep women down.

Take away the religion, and all of the stories that are in the Bible condemning women as a gender, and how could equal rights have been denied all through the centuries? A western society ruled by logic and reason would have given women equal footing long long ago. And yet today, they have still not achieved it totally.


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## Johnnyorganic (Nov 8, 2009)

oogp said:


> Jesus is God/Lord  1 tim 3:16


Well, that settles it then. 

LOL! @ "The bible sez...."

Circular logic makes the baby jesus cry.


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## morgentaler (Nov 8, 2009)

http://home.flash.net/~evt/rapture.htm

Another update to the Rapture predictions.
Fun stuff. It's like having a Babs and Green Cross tamagotchi.

Now the guy is setting conditions on his predictions, since the last bunch of Rapture predictions didn't pan out.
But don't worry! If at first you don't predict the end of the world via the zombie son of an invisible woman hating, gay bashing, genocidal asshole, try, try again.

The most humorous part is that his ravings are no less and no more valid than any other Christian blather. And he even has the fucked up capitalization and page formatting to fit right in.


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## naked gardener (Nov 8, 2009)

hey crackerjax, I was already going to hell for consuming so much of the devil weed, anyway.

johnnyorganic...Your Venn Diagram is frick'n hilarious--and scary bc of it's accuracy!!! 

dude above said 'religion is ignorance'....and isn't ignorance bliss?......And isn't feeling bliss from an artificial source typically related to drug use? Do religious zealots need rehabilitation? huh. 
(really tho, I do not judge others for their beliefs--but i will judge their behaviors based on those beliefs--patient, kind, charitable Christians (or any religious people) who use their belief for positive deeds still have my respect...those who use it for self-righteousness, judgement, an excuse for alienation, and want to push that onto others (and into legislation) are the ones who, imo, could use some re-examining of their self and the world around them.)


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## Katatawnic (Nov 8, 2009)

Wow... just... WOW!  Want a forum thread that's endless and filled with mudslinging? Just start talking about religion, or lack thereof, and watch civility crash all around you. 

George Carlin said it best...

"Do you believe in God?"
"No."
**BOOM* ... Dead!*

"Do you believe in God?"
"Yes."
"Do you believe in my God?"
"No."
**BOOM* ... Dead!*

"My God has a bigger dick than your God!!!"


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## Twiz420 (Nov 8, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> Wow... just... WOW!  Want a forum thread that's endless and filled with mudslinging? Just start talking about religion, or lack thereof, and watch civility crash all around you.
> 
> George Carlin said it best...
> 
> ...


Awesomeness; George Carlin is the man R.I.P 
+rep


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## Katatawnic (Nov 8, 2009)

One of the biggest regrets I have in life is not going to see him live any of the countless times his tours went through my town.  I always took for granted that he'd be back in town (no pun intended, lol) soon, so I'd tell myself I could just go next time. Apparently his visible aging wasn't indicator enough to me that "next time" would eventually turn into "last" time.


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## sunshine17542 (Nov 8, 2009)

I love God and God loves all of you!


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## Twiz420 (Nov 8, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> I love God and God loves all of you!


God can't love if he doesn't exist


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 9, 2009)

God can't love *YOU* if he doesn't exist for *YOU*.

Don't be hatin' on others because you don't feel the love.

What I really love is when my making love center is manipulated.

If you manipulate it

I will cum.

Are there women-dominated Religions?

if not

How about women-dominated Myths?


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## CrackerJax (Nov 9, 2009)

Love may be what you seek with religion, but what you actually receive is manipulation.


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## naked gardener (Nov 9, 2009)

Hey Twiz,

Lookin again at the thread and see I ALMOST TOTALLY REPEATED YOU!!("religion is ignorance...") HAHA--SORRY, NOT INTENTIONAL--but the similarity in flow of thought is kinda eerie!! cheers.


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## morgentaler (Nov 9, 2009)

If cookies were religion:

atheism: I do not have a cookie.

agnostic deism: I'm not sure if I have a cookie.

gnostic deism: I'm sure I have a cookie.

agnostic theism: I not sure if I have a delicious cookie, but if I do please tell me how I should go about eating it so I fulfill all cookie eating requirements.

gnostic theism: I'm sure I have a cookie, and this man who says he is in direct contact with the bakery says I must eat the cookie this way or suffer eternal indigestion. Because I am sure I have a cookie the man must be right about how to eat the cookie. Because I am sure I have a cookie.


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## Twiz420 (Nov 9, 2009)

naked gardener said:


> Hey Twiz,
> 
> Lookin again at the thread and see I ALMOST TOTALLY REPEATED YOU!!("religion is ignorance...") HAHA--SORRY, NOT INTENTIONAL--but the similarity in flow of thought is kinda eerie!! cheers.


Ha ha word, it's all good; Great minds think alike


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## morgentaler (Nov 9, 2009)

http://www.astrobio.net/pressrelease/3304/uracil-made-in-the-lab

"God" was not available for comment, despite several calls to brush fires in the area.


----------



## PadawanBater (Nov 10, 2009)

Dawkins interviews crazy retarded creationist bitch Wendy Wright. I'm amazed by his composure the whole time. Your typical shit they always bring... never looking at the evidence (or denying it all together, which she shows time after time after time, even after he repeatedly brings up multiple examples... fuck!), the old bullshit arguments Dawkins has defeated thousands of times before, evolution spreads death!!! Hitler was an evolutionist! Fuck she's stupid! Claims of Christian persecution, even after Dawkins reminds her fundies have had the white house and both houses for decades... why do they always bring the exact same bullshit tot he party? Are we going to be refuting this shit for eternity?! No wonder the man has just given the fuck up with idiots like this for the most part, they just don't get it, they REFUSE to get it. This bitch is the shining example. 

Enjoy anyway...

[youtube]US8f1w1cYvs[/youtube]
[youtube]9C6yG5totN0&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]8A_-hQq6vNY&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]cXuDXkMTbps&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]Wj34lYwoDrg&feature=related [/youtube]
[youtube]_qngH3GeA4A&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]rE6HRG3rBLY&feature=related[/youtube]


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## robert 14617 (Nov 10, 2009)

she calls him close minded and scientists a small group that teach evolution


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## PadawanBater (Nov 10, 2009)

She doesn't seem to grasp the concept of "facts are not debatable" - at one point I think she said something like "well, you look at the information available and come to your conclusion, and we'll look at the information and come to our own conclusion..." - uhh, no bitch, science don't work like that. Howbout you go choose not to believe the law of gravity too... 

She seriously makes AN ASS OF HERSELF in this video, omg I'm embarrassed for her stupidity...


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## morgentaler (Nov 10, 2009)

I've been watching during breaks while laying down floorboards.
Her brain appears to be made of harder wood than the stuff going across the joists.

She keeps babbling about the lack of evidence, and then seconds later invoking the creator. It takes a special kind of mindset to say there is insufficient evidence for evolution yet still believe in an invisible being who hears your every thought and demands obedience.

As sickening as it is I'll watch it right to the end. And then file her away with the other creatards.


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## krustofskie (Nov 10, 2009)

I think this interview is from a 3 part documentary series from 2008 by Dawkins called 'The Genius of Charles Darwin'.

Here are links to the full episodes if anyone is interested.

Part 1
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...5322910215458#
Part2
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...in+-Episode+2#
Part3
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/648481


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 10, 2009)

Creationists don't understand evolution,

those that do, have their own interpretation of their holy book and loose faith in the literal interpretations of their fathers.

If you only understand squares, 

how do you pick between two equally misunderstood solutions to the question, "why am I here"?

Do you know why you picked your flavor of solution?


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## Twiz420 (Nov 10, 2009)

"Look we found something they can't explain that must mean 'god' did it"

Dawkins is the man, he has a lot of patience too; I woulda put a bullet between her eyes after part 2


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## morgentaler (Nov 10, 2009)

Since it was an interview about evolution he held back from confronting her on the religious hypocrisy of many of her claims.
The amusing thing is that if you mute it and watch her face you can see when she's just making up shit on the fly:
Her eyes bug out a little bit more and her smile widens perceptibly.

She has a tell. The cre-A-TOR better be on her side when she's playing poker or she'll get wiped out.


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## MexicanWarlord420 (Nov 10, 2009)

Best part of the video is where she said "If evolutionists had the actual evidence, then they would be displayed in musems and not illustrations."


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## shnkrmn (Nov 10, 2009)

MexicanWarlord420 said:


> Best part of the video is where she said "If evolutionists had the actual evidence, then they would be displayed in musems and not illustrations."



Which time? I lost count.


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## morgentaler (Nov 10, 2009)

The Catholic Church vs. Hitchens and Fry - a debate.

Enjoy. 

[youtube]PvZz_pxZ2lw[/youtube]

[youtube]LFTj9n40rNo[/youtube]

[youtube]O-q8US0QRs4[/youtube]

[youtube]KQRkfZzyfcU[/youtube]

[youtube]i391gBoEo58[/youtube]


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## hom36rown (Nov 11, 2009)

God is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient...

So if god knew I was going to die tomorrow, could he save me? If he could save me, doesn't that mean he was wrong about me going to die, and therefore not omniscient....if he can't save me, doesn't that mean he is not omnipotent?

Or better yet, could god make a microwavable burrito so hot, even he could not eat it?


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## CrackerJax (Nov 11, 2009)

Why would G*D create false G*Ds to precede him?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 11, 2009)

What does evolution have to do with an Atheism thread?

Does it merely demonstrate a lack of understanding by creationists?

Please remember that it is very hard for a creationist to separate from and reconcile their differences in understanding from their church dogma.

It is a personal interpretation that treads on thin religious ice.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 11, 2009)

Most Christians view evolution as the enemy and consequently group it together with Atheism automatically.


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## PadawanBater (Nov 11, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Most Christians view evolution as the enemy and consequently group it together with Atheism automatically.


 
Mrs. Wright actually did that a couple times during the interview and Dawkins had to correct her by mentioning that the *fucking church *has embraced the theory of evolution (basically saying she's an idiot because the scripture says nothing about it, and she's OBVIOUSLY denying the fact of evolution because she believes in creation and feels that it goes against her religion). Of course she misses the point completely and continues on with the rest of her bullshit..


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## morgentaler (Nov 11, 2009)

Ah, but many evangelicals believe that the Catholic Church is a nutbar cult that they don't want to be affiliated with.
It's kind of like the Moonies not letting the Raelians hang out with them.


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## shnkrmn (Nov 11, 2009)

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/11/the-vatican-embracing-the-possibility-of-advanced-extraterrestrial-life.html

The Vatican has announced that the study of life elsewhere in the universe is 'suitable.' I guess with shrinking market share here on earth, they are looking for new flocks. 'Church Universal' indeed.

"In my opinion this possibility exists," said the Reverend José Gabriel Funes, head of the Vatican Observatory and a scientific adviser to Pope Benedict XVI, referring to life on other planets."How can we exclude that life has developed elsewhere," he said in an interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano. The large number of galaxies with their own planets makes this possible, he noted.
Asked if he was referring to beings similar to humans or even more evolved than humans, he said: "Certainly, in a universe this big you can't exclude this hypothesis."
In the interview headlined, "The extraterrestrial is my brother," Funes said he saw no conflict between belief in such beings and faith in God.​


PadawanBater said:


> Mrs. Wright actually did that a couple times during the interview and Dawkins had to correct her by mentioning that the *fucking church *has embraced the theory of evolution (basically saying she's an idiot because the scripture says nothing about it, and she's OBVIOUSLY denying the fact of evolution because she believes in creation and feels that it goes against her religion). Of course she misses the point completely and continues on with the rest of her bullshit..


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## Stoney McFried (Nov 11, 2009)

LOl...onward to new frontiers,says the church.Somewhere out there, there must be entire planets who haven't heard enough of us to know better than to convert!Onward klingon soldiers!


shnkrmn said:


> http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/11/the-vatican-embracing-the-possibility-of-advanced-extraterrestrial-life.html
> 
> The Vatican has announced that the study of life elsewhere in the universe is 'suitable.' I guess with shrinking market share here on earth, they are looking for new flocks. 'Church Universal' indeed.
> 
> ...


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## CrackerJax (Nov 11, 2009)

All I know is, if the aliens do ever land here, we had better hide the priests and penguins....that will freak the aliens out and confirm that we're not ready for contact.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 11, 2009)

What is an Atheist's guess as to how many Athiests (can't spell thier either) believe in evolution in some flavor?


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## krustofskie (Nov 11, 2009)

If aliens were advanced enough to travel to us I would feel quite sorry for them. What a wasted journey to come here and find so many unethical self-destructive peoples. I would be more worried that they might take it upon themselves to do the planet and the rest of the animal species a favor and wipe the human race off the face of the planet.


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## sunshine17542 (Nov 11, 2009)

Aliens need God too


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## PadawanBater (Nov 11, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/11/the-vatican-embracing-the-possibility-of-advanced-extraterrestrial-life.html
> 
> The Vatican has announced that the study of life elsewhere in the universe is 'suitable.' I guess with shrinking market share here on earth, they are looking for new flocks. 'Church Universal' indeed.
> 
> ...


 
See, that I can respect. The guy knows what evidence means, he understands mathematical odds, the scope of the universe... he's not denying evidence, yet he still keeps his faith. While I believe his form of faith and his belief couldn't be more wrong, I can sit here and honestly say I don't give a damn what the man may believe. This right here is direct *proof *debunking claims made by believers that atheists have to force their own beliefs on them and make them conform and become an atheist. That's not the goal at all. I only care about the education part of it, the knowledge part. It's unacceptable that so many people dismiss scientific evidence* because of their beliefs, that is the problem, and always has been.

*I had a friend who dropped out of an anthropology class because she didn't believe what they were teaching her... (wow!)


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## CrackerJax (Nov 11, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> Aliens need God too


So hypothetically, if the aliens do land and YES they do believe in a G*D, but a DIFFERENT G*D. One that is obviously more in evidence by their superiority over us,.... will you bow to their new and improved G*D?

What if like our G*D, theirs demands sacrifice...will you be willing to go upon the altar?


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## Johnnyorganic (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm more inclined to believe in extraterrestrial intelligence than in the divine jesus.

But, what if... jesus was an *alien*, or *alien hybrid*?

Consider for a moment....

Immaculate conception.

The christmas star (Mothership).

The three wise men (In Black).

Turning water into wine.

Feeding the multitude with just a 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish.

Raising the dead.

Healing the sick and infirm.

Rising from the dead.

Ascending into the clouds.

Hmmmmmmm....


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## sunshine17542 (Nov 11, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> So hypothetically, if the aliens do land and YES they do believe in a G*D, but a DIFFERENT G*D. One that is obviously more in evidence by their superiority over us,.... will you bow to their new and improved G*D?
> 
> What if like our G*D, theirs demands sacrifice...will you be willing to go upon the altar?


CrackerJax you are missing the point. There is only one God. The God that created the universe.


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## sunshine17542 (Nov 11, 2009)

My atheist friends I have wonderful news! God is real! The proof is in you!


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## CrackerJax (Nov 11, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> CrackerJax you are missing the point. There is only one God. The God that created the universe.


O'rly?? since no one on earth tends to come to that conclusion, maybe U had better rethink your position. The earth does not recognize a common G*D. the aliens would have their version, and it would be superior to ours since their G*D has most obviously blessed them with deep space travel.

So, it stands to reason that if the ppl of Earth cannot agree upon a ONE G*D, the aliens would have their own version... a better version. 

So, you would NOT bow down to the NEW King on the block?


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## sunshine17542 (Nov 11, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> O'rly?? since no one on earth tends to come to that conclusion, maybe U had better rethink your position. The earth does not recognize a common G*D. the aliens would have their version, and it would be superior to ours since their G*D has most obviously blessed them with deep space travel.
> 
> So, it stands to reason that if the ppl of Earth cannot agree upon a ONE G*D, the aliens would have their own version... a better version.
> 
> So, you would NOT bow down to the NEW King on the block?


I worship my Father in heaven. The Almighty Creator of the universe. The source of all energy and everything that exists. There is God and there is nothing.


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## sunshine17542 (Nov 11, 2009)

atheists prove to me that the universe wasn't created by God. Please tell me where all of the energy that makes up everything comes from. I know that it didn't come from nothing. Go and prove it to me with science. Although I think you will be disappointed when you find out the TRUTH.


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## morgentaler (Nov 11, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> There is God and there is nothing.


Prove it.

And don't use your bullshit "The proof is inside you."

Provide real tangible proof of the existence of your god.

If you start babbling metaphysical garbage you will only prove that you don't have a leg to stand on.


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## sunshine17542 (Nov 11, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Prove it.
> 
> And don't use your bullshit "The proof is inside you."
> 
> ...


It's not bullshit. God is in YOU! You just don't want to look for it. God is a realization.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 11, 2009)

G*D is an ego trip. No thanks....

Can't answer the alien scenario eh? I'm not surprised...


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## sunshine17542 (Nov 11, 2009)

You are all fools.


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## morgentaler (Nov 11, 2009)

You believe in a magic invisible being who only exists in an old book of mythology.

And you call us fools.

You're gonna have a breakdown when you find out Santa, the Easter Bunny, and Spongebob are fictional as well.


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## sunshine17542 (Nov 11, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> G*D is an ego trip. No thanks....
> 
> Can't answer the alien scenario eh? I'm not surprised...


God is surely not an ego trip. There was nothing to answer in the alien scenario. Regardless of what I say no one here is going to believe me. So I'm actually done posting. I've told you the truth. God is real. You choose not to believe me, you choose your own path not me. Have a wonderful night.


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## morgentaler (Nov 11, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> So I'm actually done posting. I've told you the truth. God is real. You choose not to believe me, you choose your own path not me. Have a wonderful night.


Bye bye. Don't let reality hit you on the way out.


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## morgentaler (Nov 11, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> The Vatican has announced that the study of life elsewhere in the universe is 'suitable.' I guess with shrinking market share here on earth, they are looking for new flocks. 'Church Universal' indeed.


"Our continuing mission... To exploit whole new worlds. To indoctrinate new beings and new civilizations. To boldly impose our will into the sex lives of beings everywhere."

Just wait until Father O'Reilly molests little Globnort of Huffax and their whole space fleet descends on Earth with vengeance...


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## CrackerJax (Nov 11, 2009)

But ur G8D is the one G*D, so you certainly say. Not Odin or Mythra...right?

So what if the aliens show up with G*D XXX based on their superior culture and enlightenment, which would easily surpass man's (who is quite violent). 

There is something to answer..... think about it.


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## krustofskie (Nov 11, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> You believe in a magic invisible being who only exists in an old book of mythology.
> 
> And you call us fools.
> 
> You're gonna have a breakdown when you find out Santa, the Easter Bunny, and Spongebob are fictional as well.


I read what you write with a lot of interest, usually. Your sound logic and scientific evidence denounce most except the most headstrong. But this I can not take, this despicable tirade of bullshit makes me begin to doubt everything you have ever written. I expect you to rethink your claims or all manner of hell shall be poured upon you for the worst thing I have ever seen anyone write.

How dare you claim Spongebob is fictional, how very dare you.


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## krustofskie (Nov 11, 2009)

sunshine17542 said:


> atheists prove to me that the universe wasn't created by God. Please tell me where all of the energy that makes up everything comes from. I know that it didn't come from nothing. Go and prove it to me with science. Although I think you will be disappointed when you find out the TRUTH.


Prove it was, with real evidence not your personal spirituality. Comes down to the burden of proof again. I think discussed (argued) extensively (repeatedly) in this thread:-

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/2603300-burden-proof.html

If you want to know where all the energy comes from do some research on singularities and black holes, not a complete answer and may not be the answer at all but a move in what could be the right direction, no claims that something comes from nothing there. As us believers in science can admit, we don't have all the answers but where we have lack of answers we are not idiotic enough to fill in those gaps with 'Magic man done it'


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## PadawanBater (Nov 12, 2009)

Would you kill your kid if God ordered you to?

[youtube]DSW_L-6vNZY&feature=sub[/youtube]


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## CrackerJax (Nov 12, 2009)

Religion - Helping the unbalanced get through child rearing.


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## Katatawnic (Nov 12, 2009)

This guy solved it all... 

[youtube]SN3jEJFI7W0[/youtube]


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## undertheice (Nov 12, 2009)

krustofskie said:


> How dare you claim Spongebob is fictional, how very dare you.


i hate to break it to you, but spongebob is indeed a fictional character. on the other hand, the tooth fairy is a very real person. i've met him and can attest to the serious nature of his quest.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 12, 2009)

The devout often do not comprehend how long our Universe has before it runs out of steam.


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## MexicanWarlord420 (Nov 12, 2009)

God is real, because there have been many miracles I have witnessed in my life and he has spoken to me before.

Suck it, non- believers.


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## Twiz420 (Nov 12, 2009)

MexicanWarlord420 said:


> God is real, because there have been many miracles I have witnessed in my life and he has spoken to me before.
> 
> Suck it, non- believers.


Miracles are just lucky coincidences, nothing more. I'd be careful telling people "god" has spoken to you, a lot of people are on meds or locked up in a padded room for hearing and responding to "voices"


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## morgentaler (Nov 12, 2009)

I saw a 6 foot tall lizard man in my room once. Can I claim that as a miracle?
It was just a hallucination from food poisoning but since I have no proof and nobody can verify it, it should fit within the miracle criteria.

The standing question: If miracles are real why aren't faith healers or gods spontaneously regenerating amputated limbs? 

Instead miracles consist things like people staring at the sun until they suffer hallucinations from over-stimulation of the optic nerve.
Or tears that leak from a statue of the Virgin Mary, which just happen to be chicken fat when tested in a lab. I guess miracles make tasty soup.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 12, 2009)

That little voice in ur head ... it's you.
That whisper in ur ear ... it's you.
That loud booming voice from across the room ... it's you.

it's you.


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## shnkrmn (Nov 12, 2009)

MexicanWarlord420 said:


> God is real, because there have been many miracles I have witnessed in my life and he has spoken to me before.
> 
> Suck it, non- believers.



there's a sincere man.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 12, 2009)

I have actually had an out of body experience. I was able to think my way through it though....thankfully.


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## morgentaler (Nov 12, 2009)

Cool app showing size and scale of many tiny things.

Unfortunately they do not show the relative sizes of angels and heads of pins.

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/begin/cells/scale/


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## Twiz420 (Nov 13, 2009)

"I'd rather die than go to heaven!!!!"
William Murderface- Dethklok


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 13, 2009)

Really cool application.

Too bad they stop at coffee beans and carbon atoms.

Reality warps like a bubble wall when one can scale in their mind the processes and structures from the very large to the very small.


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## morgentaler (Nov 13, 2009)

*Wow, this is absolutely sickening.*

The idea that sucking up to fairy tales at the expense of other people's lives is insane.
Article copied from Pharyngula.



> *A moral conundrum, resolved with scripture*
> 
> Category: Ethics
> Posted on: November 13, 2009 11:25 AM, by PZ Myers
> ...


So much for taking morality from the bible.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 13, 2009)

The umbrella of religion offers safe cover for tons of nutcakes. That alone would make it worth it to take away the tax exemptions.


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## shnkrmn (Nov 14, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> The umbrella of religion offers safe cover for tons of nutcakes. That alone would make it worth it to take away the tax exemptions.


You want tons of UNCOVERED nutcakes????


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 14, 2009)

I dream of smothering tonnes of nut cakes with berry-flavored cream-cheese frosting.

I bake for the Cannabis Church.


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## robert 14617 (Nov 14, 2009)

you can smother my nut cake anytime hippie , and i think it is time to reevaluate the tax code as far as the church is concerned


----------



## krustofskie (Nov 14, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> You want tons of UNCOVERED nutcakes????


LOL. One way to look at it, do we really want all the lunatics out of the asylum.


----------



## PadawanBater (Nov 16, 2009)

Anyone have any info on the whole tax exemption thing? 

Is it legal to make a religion out of whatever the fuck you want? I heard of this guy who started up a 420 religion somewhere and was fighting the government for his religous rights to smoke cannabis. So for instance, if I said I believed that Craig the martian duck was responsible for my creation and in order to accept the teachings of Craig, one must quack to the sky two minutes everyday, could I go get that legally recognized by the US government... simply because the 1st amendment gives me the freedom to choose what I wish to believe? 

...you can see where I'm going with this... At what point does it go from a crazy, off the wall, totally batshit insane cult - like Craig the martian duck, and how some view Scientology, to a worldwide way of life that is regarded by many as moral?

Is this simply another case of majority rule?


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Nov 16, 2009)

The entire exemption issue for religious organizations is a crock of shit.

As I understand it, one cannot simply pull a religion out of one's ass slippity slip. There are hoops to jump through and requirements to be met.

Someone else determines what beliefs are legitimate. So yeah, Paddy. It's mob rule.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 16, 2009)

Will you let me capture the video of the extraction following hoop jumping?

How long has the Catholic's been tax exempt?

420 years?

Ever seen a Christian mob throw stones?


----------



## PadawanBater (Nov 22, 2009)

[youtube]kvzidL5KJMY[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/user/philhellenes

EPIC PWNGE! 

What say you now about the dating methods Fish, Shroomer, Babs, Maui?


----------



## robert 14617 (Nov 22, 2009)

religion is a multi billion dollar franchise that is out to protect there way of life ,and life style


----------



## growwwww (Nov 22, 2009)

To be honest, when ever religious people give me shit about being an athiest...I say hey, im not here to give you shit...But one thing, if this god does exist and at the end of my life im sat down infront of him and we go through the good shit and the bad shit, whos to say my good shit isint as good as your good shit? Same with the bad...And if he asks me why i didint believe in him, simple. Not enough evidence, somehow i think if god is who they all say he is...He would admite, respect and understand the fact that athiest dont believe in him.

Peace


----------



## morgentaler (Nov 22, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> What say you now about the dating methods Fish, Shroomer, Babs, Maui?


I don't think they'd have anything useful to say. Science is just a big conspiracy against "god", and dating methods are made up, and burning bushes are excellent thought transmission devices


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 23, 2009)

There will be no response folks. 

The white flag has been raised.

Finally.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 23, 2009)

Often the truth is more complex and interesting.

I believe Atheism is not about being right or wrong, or the color of flags, or creationism or evolution, or the validity of religion.

I believe Atheism is about not believing in Deities.


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 23, 2009)

I &#8800; Me

I = YOU


----------



## MexicanWarlord420 (Nov 23, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> The umbrella of religion offers safe cover for tons of nutcakes. That alone would make it worth it to take away the tax exemptions.


Don't forget the taliban and other insurgents that we can't kill because they're hiding in a mosque.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 23, 2009)

If I could get tax money out of the taliban ... I would.


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## krustofskie (Nov 23, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> There will be no response folks.
> 
> The white flag has been raised.
> 
> Finally.


Start a new thread and you may see them return, they have probably unsubscribed from this thread by now. Whats the point in fighting the losing battle so to say.


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 23, 2009)

I feel no need to start a thread to attract them. 

Part of me hopes they pull out of the mythput their true thinking caps on.


----------



## krustofskie (Nov 23, 2009)

From your experience from dealing with the likes of GreenCross do you think it ever possible to get them to change their way of thinking, if you do your in line for a nobel prize.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 23, 2009)

No....

I think pulling out of the myth is very hard to do when ur older. As death nears and takes loved ones, the myth, if already instilled, goes from crutch to full life support.


----------



## krustofskie (Nov 23, 2009)

So much for getting wiser with age then.


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 23, 2009)

Fear is a powerful motivator. Years of indoctrination takes its toll.

After decades of religion, ppl become akin to Patty Hearst.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 23, 2009)

Who gave anyone the right to make anyone else change their thinking?

It is not about being dumb or smart.

It is a about perception.

My reality is much different than yours.

Some humans understand only squares, not circles.

Being bright humans that enjoy squares, they understand squares more than most, and much more than I.


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 23, 2009)

Man is his own worst enemy. Everyone else's worst enemy too. Ironic huh?


----------



## PadawanBater (Nov 23, 2009)

Hippie, that's the exact *reason* we came up with the scientific method. I really can't stress enough how important it is. When we establish things based on the scientific method, those things established become true. True to me, true to you, whatever you perception of those facts may be, it does not change what they actually are. 

Reality is reality whether you believe it or not. You gotta get past the idea that it's ok to have your own pesonal perception of what you think reality actually is. That's one of the main problems believers present. They think they're right, and not even the facts can change their mind. Litterally *nothing *will. So what's the point? If someone can't determine the difference between what is real and what isn't then they should not be commenting on aspects of reality, regarding established facts, as we've defined them.

Yes the Earth used to be flat... yes facts change, progress and evolve... but that doesn't mean the truth we've all, collectively, established to be true, isn't.


----------



## morgentaler (Nov 23, 2009)

I just saw a guy on shroomtalk claim that there are 3000 scientific proofs against evolution.
Can't wait to see some of his samples.


----------



## Twiz420 (Nov 23, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I just saw a guy on shroomtalk claim that there are 3000 scientific proofs against evolution.
> Can't wait to see some of his samples.


He will probably post some of his shroom visuals as 'proof'


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Nov 23, 2009)

It's funny because what believers call *god*, I call *nature*.

They rely the theology to understand god.

I rely on science to understand nature.

It seems like a no-brainer to me. But hey! To each his own, right?


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 23, 2009)

Yes JO, I'm in the same arena of thought.

It is so easy to bring evolution into the religious doctrine. G*D invented a self running program ... nature.

It's amazing to me that the zealots cannot see the simplistic beauty of that logic. 

Ooops, there I go again, using dirty words like "logic".


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 23, 2009)

Funny thing is, , who am I kidding, logical thing is, the top three religions on this chart are my three top choices if I had to pick a religion as tolerable to coexist with.


----------



## krustofskie (Nov 23, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I just saw a guy on shroomtalk claim that there are 3000 scientific proofs against evolution.
> Can't wait to see some of his samples.


Time to make some presumptions as we seem to have a lack of non-believers in evolution around at the moment (I think Morgan and CJ have scared them off)
I will start with what could be the first of the 3000 proofs against evolution, please feel free to add as many BS proofs as you like and see if our logical minds can even come up with anywhere near as many as 3000

1) Because the bible says god made Adam and Eve in his image (apparently scientifically provable by Kent Hovind)


----------



## PadawanBater (Nov 24, 2009)

2. because things are complex, and, for the life of me, I can't figure out how they could have gotten there "by chance"
3. conditions on earth wouldn't be perfect for humans if there wasn't an intelligent designer behind creating everything just for us

...

I could go alllll day long with these man!


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 24, 2009)

Is it possible for a non-christian deity to have created everything, including natural selection?

Thoughts became things?

Things didn't get to be the way they are just by a chance.

Reality involves ganjajillions of chances every second.

How many ganjajillions are there in several billion years?

How many genes get the lucky roll of the dice today?


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 24, 2009)

It is obvious that we are here by chance. Just look at us and what we do, to each other and everything else on the planet. 

Who would design such a creature unless they hated everything else on earth, and we are some sort of revenge payback.


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## morgentaler (Nov 24, 2009)

Why would an "intelligent designer" create a sentient being that can't detect or communicate with it?


----------



## shnkrmn (Nov 24, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Why would an "intelligent designer" create a sentient being that can't detect or communicate with it?



What would Heisenberg think of that?


----------



## growwwww (Nov 24, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> What would Heisenberg think of that?



Nice pic man


----------



## shnkrmn (Nov 24, 2009)

Are you sure you would be a hindu?

http://in.reuters.com/article/southAsiaNews/idINIndia-44201720091124



CrackerJax said:


> Funny thing is, , who am I kidding, logical thing is, the top three religions on this chart are my three top choices if I had to pick a religion as tolerable to coexist with.


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 24, 2009)

No, what I said was ... a religion as tolerable to COEXIST with. I now coexist with mostly Christians, and it isn't very nice.


----------



## shnkrmn (Nov 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> No, what I said was ... a religion as tolerable to COEXIST with. I now coexist with mostly Christians, and it isn't very nice.


LOL. I didn't finish reading your sentence. my bad.double dunce.


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 24, 2009)

No worries... 

I've seen ppl back edit rather than admit a mistake was made..... kudos to ur humility.


----------



## shnkrmn (Nov 24, 2009)

I am a humble atheist who wishes the high holy holidays weren't fast upon us. . . 

Let's have a festivus party. 


"Festivus: For The Rest Of Us"




CrackerJax said:


> No worries...
> 
> I've seen ppl back edit rather than admit a mistake was made..... kudos to ur humility.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Nov 24, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> I am a humble atheist who wishes the high holy holidays weren't fast upon us. . .
> 
> Let's have a festivus party.
> 
> "Festivus: For The Rest Of Us"


LOL!

It's time for the *Airing of Grievances*!

Who wants to start?


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 24, 2009)

Well my first grievance is the same subject but completely opposite. I loathe the holidays, because I can't beat my relatives off with a stick. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy "most" of them, but in measured amounts. During the holidays however, I get inundated constantly. Think Florida, big house, tons of property, friggin Orlando ( I do hate O town). They just keep coming. I just saw my cousin off 2 days ago after a 10 day visit. I have 5 more coming in tomorrow for a week, and I expect at least 12 ppl for Xmas...ridiculous!!! Last year, I had a relative hang around for three weeks AFTER Xmas. 

The holidays pours down relatives on my arse.


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## krustofskie (Nov 24, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Well my first grievance is the same subject but completely opposite. I loathe the holidays, because I can't beat my relatives off with a stick. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy "most" of them, but in measured amounts. During the holidays however, I get inundated constantly. Think Florida, big house, tons of property, friggin Orlando ( I do hate O town). They just keep coming. I just saw my cousin off 2 days ago after a 10 day visit. I have 5 more coming in tomorrow for a week, and I expect at least 12 ppl for Xmas...ridiculous!!! Last year, I had a relative hang around for three weeks AFTER Xmas.
> 
> The holidays pours down relatives on my arse.


Stat sleep walking naked or something, see how long they hang around after a few nights of you 'sleep walking' into their room and piss in the bin (Something I have actually done while sleep walking)


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## krustofskie (Nov 24, 2009)

My grievance (way off subject but it pisses me off) Why the hell do Hot dogs come in packs of 8 but Hot dog buns come in packs of 6, stupid.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 24, 2009)

I'd like to, but instead I grin and bear it.

I do think the standards of divorce are arse backwards though. 

You should be able to divorce ur family, not ur spouse.

You CHOSE ur spouse ... 

P.S. That's so you buy more buns....


----------



## krustofskie (Nov 24, 2009)

Well it seems possible some places for children to divorce their parents, cant see why it couldn't be taken further to the rest of the family, I think them visiting would definitely reduce just for trying.

http://www.isfaq.com/legal/15007.html

(Some info for divorcing your parents)


----------



## Twiz420 (Nov 24, 2009)

krustofskie said:


> My grievance (way off subject but it pisses me off) Why the hell do Hot dogs come in packs of 8 but Hot dog buns come in packs of 6, stupid.


 "See, the thing is, life doesn't always work out according to plan so be happy with what you've got, because you can always get a hot dog."


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## shnkrmn (Nov 25, 2009)

I have a grievance with right-handed scissors. Why would anyone design something that can't be used by 1 in 10? Kind of like marriage in America


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## shnkrmn (Nov 25, 2009)

krustofskie said:


> Well it seems possible some places for children to divorce their parents, cant see why it couldn't be taken further to the rest of the family, I think them visiting would definitely reduce just for trying.
> 
> http://www.isfaq.com/legal/15007.html
> 
> (Some info for divorcing your parents)


There is a PGA tour golfer named Sean O'Hair who got a legal separation from his parents. I agree about other family members though.


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## morgentaler (Nov 25, 2009)

krustofskie said:


> My grievance (way off subject but it pisses me off) Why the hell do Hot dogs come in packs of 8 but Hot dog buns come in packs of 6, stupid.


I think it's because men have typically cooked the hot dogs, and we're expected to ruin a few 

I'm a good cook, damnit!

But then it could just be the buy more buns thing.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Nov 25, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Well my first grievance is the same subject but completely opposite. I loathe the holidays, because I can't beat my relatives off with a stick. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy "most" of them, but in measured amounts. During the holidays however, I get inundated constantly. Think Florida, big house, tons of property, friggin Orlando ( I do hate O town). They just keep coming. I just saw my cousin off 2 days ago after a 10 day visit. I have 5 more coming in tomorrow for a week, and I expect at least 12 ppl for Xmas...ridiculous!!! Last year, I had a relative hang around for three weeks AFTER Xmas.
> 
> The holidays pours down relatives on my arse.


Regarding how best to handle winter visitors who do not take Ben Franklin's advice, I may have a solution for you CJ. Not a perfect solution, but it will provide you with much more privacy.

Guest house.

Or a separate apartment built on top of the garage.

Now if those two options do not appeal for whatever reason, a much more practical solution would be to purchase a late model Airstream. They can be had quite reasonably if you know where to look. When *you* aren't using it, it could be the guest quarters. Don't stock it. They can do that. And you and the missus will have privacy. 

My folks have one and it *rocks*. They spent this past summer traveling throughout Alaska and Western Canada in it.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 25, 2009)

Hahahah!! Oh, I have had those conversations. I actually have two houses within miles of each other, ... uhh, they all fill up. Like friendly termites working through my booze, food, and hot water..... 

I'm afraid to build any more..... Maybe tear one down?


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## morgentaler (Nov 25, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Hahahah!! Oh, I have had those conversations. I actually have two houses within miles of each other, ... uhh, they all fill up. Like friendly termites working through my booze, food, and hot water.....
> 
> I'm afraid to build any more..... Maybe tear one down?


Need a house sitter? I'd be happy to taze your relatives for you


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## CrackerJax (Nov 25, 2009)

Sigh, it's all part of living in Floriduh. 

Consolation prize is outdoor winter grow.


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## PadawanBater (Nov 25, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Sigh, it's all part of living in Floriduh.
> 
> Consolation prize is outdoor winter grow.


Hows that work with the light schedule? Had I known a winter grow could take place, one would of definitely been happening!


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## CrackerJax (Nov 26, 2009)

They just stay small. Here's one from last April. Just finishing.


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## robert 14617 (Nov 26, 2009)

same here in south texas unless you veg indoors before you move them out , the only draw back is the chance of frost, i have to say this was feb last year


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## CrackerJax (Nov 26, 2009)

I had to move them a few times because of cold snaps, but those hard nights only last a couple of days down here.


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## AcridLemons (Nov 26, 2009)

A while back I saw an image of a church billboard that said, "Hell is just as real as Heaven." And indeed it is...

The reason religion is so dangerous is that it preys on both people's wants and fears. It's really such a waste of human potential. Just imagine if instead of all those hours people spend praying or in church they spent studying science or making art. What a different world we'd all be living in!


----------



## PadawanBater (Nov 26, 2009)

[youtube]nIsWZCSMSSs&feature=sub[/youtube]

Another great vid with some damn good evidence supporting evolution.


----------



## MexicanWarlord420 (Nov 26, 2009)

Nice find Bater


----------



## ANC (Nov 27, 2009)

growwwww said:


> To be honest, when ever religious people give me shit about being an athiest...I say hey, im not here to give you shit...But one thing, if this god does exist and at the end of my life im sat down infront of him and we go through the good shit and the bad shit, whos to say my good shit isint as good as your good shit? Same with the bad...And if he asks me why i didint believe in him, simple. Not enough evidence, somehow i think if god is who they all say he is...He would admite, respect and understand the fact that athiest dont believe in him.
> 
> Peace


You know, I respect you, but I'd hate for you to form an opinion on something you seem misinformed on.

I'm not realy familiar with the english text of the bible, so I can't pen you a quote. But it says that our most virtuous deeds are like dirty rags in the eyes of the lord. Meaning that doing a few good things is apparently not the ticked to nirvanna.


----------



## OC STONER (Nov 27, 2009)

i use to get these fuckers showing up at my door trying to preach to me every weekend...so on one occasion as i was about to light a bowl watching a game on the tube these fucks come a knocking at my door. usually i would tell them (respectfully) i wasnt interested or just plain ignore the fuckers until they left.by this time around i was simply tired of all the b.s ,always trying to convert me or something. so i opened my door and explained to the two youngsters i was interested in what they had to say this time around. as they were about to start rambling i pulled out my piece and took a toke. i made it a point to exhale in their direction and even offered them a toke. needless to say those fuckers acted like they saw the devil himself and left.Thankfully they skip my pad now. if i am outside or in my garage when they come through my neighborhood i make it a point to call them over.they dont even want to look my way most of the time... I HOPE I MAKE THEM AS UNCOMFORTABLE AS THEY HAVE MADE ME FOR YEARS!


----------



## OregonMeds (Nov 27, 2009)

OC STONER said:


> i use to get these fuckers showing up at my door trying to preach to me every weekend...so on one occasion as i was about to light a bowl watching a game on the tube these fucks come a knocking at my door. usually i would tell them (respectfully) i wasnt interested or just plain ignore the fuckers until they left.by this time around i was simply tired of all the b.s ,always trying to convert me or something. so i opened my door and explained to the two youngsters i was interested in what they had to say this time around. as they were about to start rambling i pulled out my piece and took a toke. i made it a point to exhale in their direction and even offered them a toke. needless to say those fuckers acted like they saw the devil himself and left.Thankfully they skip my pad now. if i am outside or in my garage when they come through my neighborhood i make it a point to call them over.they dont even want to look my way most of the time... I HOPE I MAKE THEM AS UNCOMFORTABLE AS THEY HAVE MADE ME FOR YEARS!


I just answered the door nude once, same effect.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Nov 27, 2009)

Hell On Earth is possible?

It is easy to toy with the boys.

Politely invite them in, have them sit down, ask them directly how old they believe the earth is.

The last one voluntarily left my house in fairly short order stating that he didn't know anything about cavemen or dinosaurs.

It works every time with those of flawed dogma.


----------



## OregonMeds (Nov 27, 2009)

ANC said:


> You know, I respect you, but I'd hate for you to form an opinion on something you seem misinformed on.
> 
> I'm not realy familiar with the english text of the bible, so I can't pen you a quote. But it says that our most virtuous deeds are like dirty rags in the eyes of the lord. Meaning that doing a few good things is apparently not the ticked to nirvanna.


But the bible was written by men not god, men who had absolutely no contact whatsoever with what you call a god and only wrote down stories that had been repeated by word of mouth for hundreds of years if not more. Which was then translated/mistranslated many times and then flat out changed to fit the wills of past leaders.
Even the earliest bibles have no word of god to begin with, let alone later versions and in the early versions you are a nobody and will never get into heaven no matter how hard you try because you are not from the holy land and you are simply not one of the chosen ones.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Nov 27, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> I just answered the door nude once, same effect.


That's hilarious! I prefer a *No Solicitors* sign prominently displayed. 

Anyone who chooses to ignore it gets an *earful* I can assure you.


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 27, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Hell On Earth is possible?
> 
> It is easy to toy with the boys.
> 
> ...


Uhhh, maybe this is hell. Maybe each Galaxy has a hell. A planet of carnage and blood. Death and disease, famine and pestilence. Like Earth.

When ppl die on other planets and they've been bad, maybe they are "born" here. Maybe the other planets don't have death, don't have carnage. Maybe the rest of the galaxy doesn't have to kill things to eat. Perhaps the rest of the Galaxy derives all of the needs from their respective suns. That is the galactic norm. 

We are the exception, not the rule. This is galaxy hell, in the outer perimeters, away from all other life. 

Galactic Gitmo Earth.


----------



## morgentaler (Nov 27, 2009)

[youtube]qmU5fpVkUQs[/youtube]


----------



## PadawanBater (Nov 28, 2009)

Great vid morgen, PH dishes out TOP QUALITY shit all the time! 

Here's another one from probably the most well known atheist on youtube, patcondell, and holy fuck, I almost creamed 30 seconds in!!!

[youtube]yjO4duhMRZk[/youtube]

This is especially great at this moment because in a few of the other threads, I've been seeing quite a bit of the "Christian persecution" bullshit. So eat this believers!


----------



## morgentaler (Nov 28, 2009)

I watched that earlier today. He really put the boots to theocracy there


----------



## PadawanBater (Nov 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I watched that earlier today. He really put the boots to theocracy there


 
If that's being a bigot, I stand proud.


----------



## CrackerJax (Nov 28, 2009)

Man, that guy is a hammer.


----------



## OC STONER (Nov 28, 2009)

that guy is my new idol!


----------



## growwwww (Nov 29, 2009)

Padawan, that guy fucking owns!!!


----------



## Stoney McFried (Nov 29, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Great vid morgen, PH dishes out TOP QUALITY shit all the time!
> 
> Here's another one from probably the most well known atheist on youtube, patcondell, and holy fuck, I almost creamed 30 seconds in!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## morgentaler (Nov 30, 2009)

An experiment for our supernatural-powered friends:

*http://mike.cwahi.net/experiment/experiment1.html

*Let's see if Christianity, Islam, The Secret, Mayan Prophecy, and Planet X have any influence on it.


----------



## Katatawnic (Nov 30, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> An experiment for our supernatural-powered friends:
> 
> *http://mike.cwahi.net/experiment/experiment1.html
> 
> *Let's see if Christianity, Islam, The Secret, Mayan Prophecy, and Planet X have any influence on it.


"This page does not support Internet Explorer. Please pray for a better browser.
Or download one. Whatever."

I don't use Internet Explorer, nor I don't even use WinBlow$. But I didn't pray for a better OS.


----------



## morgentaler (Nov 30, 2009)

The way they break CSS in Internet Explorer makes the boxes lopsided and drift to the left, whereas in FF and Chrome it looks just fine.

Using OSX or Linux?



Katatawnic said:


> "This page does not support Internet Explorer. Please pray for a better browser.
> Or download one. Whatever."
> 
> I don't use Internet Explorer, nor I don't even use WinBlow$. But I didn't pray for a better OS.


----------



## Katatawnic (Nov 30, 2009)

Linux n00b.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 30, 2009)

I use Seamonkey and it looks fine.


----------



## morgentaler (Nov 30, 2009)




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## CrackerJax (Dec 1, 2009)

Am I out of context?


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 1, 2009)

+ rep Tinkerbell


----------



## shnkrmn (Dec 1, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> + rep Tinkerbell


I'll bet you have your own wishing well, hippie


----------



## MexicanWarlord420 (Dec 2, 2009)

What happened to all the creationists in this thread?


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 2, 2009)

We, like many others, are silently reading, thinking and believing, because our creation does not need to be your creation.


----------



## shnkrmn (Dec 2, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Am I out of context?


Archaeologically speaking, yes. Eventually you will be deposited in a stratum.

dust to dust, baby!


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 2, 2009)

I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 3, 2009)

[youtube]lmS2Au476os[/youtube]


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 4, 2009)

Prayer ... feeling like ur doing something ... when actually ur doing nothing.


----------



## sunshine1754 (Dec 4, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Prayer ... feeling like ur doing something ... when actually ur doing nothing.


Cracker you are so funny! Prayer actually does work, when you do it right.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 4, 2009)

When you do it right!! that's rich!!  TY for that chuckle.


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 4, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> Cracker you are so funny! Prayer actually does work, when you do it right.


So what is the right way to pray?

"Dear GodThing, 
Here is a list of items that could occur by random chance or natural phenomenon. I will pray for all these items and if any one occurs, I will discount all failures, and give credit to you for the one success. Even if it actually turns out to be due to the hard work of someone else, like a scientist discovering a cure for something, or a philanthropist helping a needy family.
Thanks,
Your superstitious and irrational followers."


This method seems to be the standard.


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## SmokerOfLightning (Dec 4, 2009)

I think a more reasonable way of understanding prayer would be as an active thrust towards communication. Not verbalized comm. or inner dialouge in some form like language. more like sexual communication. (not physically...in this context anyway). Prayer is easier to (begin to) wrap your head around when understood as an active "opening up" a communion, coming together type of dynamic experience. not "i want this, so and so isnt fair, don't do that, help me with this"


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## RanTyr (Dec 4, 2009)

Coming together with what? Your inner self?

That's what meditation is for.


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## morgentaler (Dec 4, 2009)

Well, a few people suggested it, so I finally got around to making a YouTube channel.
Let the death threats from "loving Christians" commence!

[youtube]7ikG1bfc30U[/youtube]


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## Katatawnic (Dec 5, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Well, a few people suggested it, so I finally got around to making a YouTube channel.
> Let the death threats from "loving Christians" commence!
> 
> [youtube]7ikG1bfc30U[/youtube]


Glad you joined, MG! You just got your first YT subscriber a few seconds ago. 

I'll have to watch later, though. The newest version of Ubuntu has a glitch in resolving several audio drivers in the update/kernel stuff (lol), and of course mine is one of them.  Murphy's pissed at me, I tell ya!  I'm trying out the suggested workarounds right now (none have worked more than a day or two so far), while the Ubuntu team is working to find where they screwed up and fix it.

*[OT]*
Told you I'm a Linux n00b!  Speaking of... if anyone in here is even just a tad Linux Savvy, I'd be beyond grateful for some pointers with things like modifying files such as "menu.lst", etc., because some of the suggested workarounds tell you to do this, but don't explain in "stupid" terms.  *OH!* If anyone has used Linux photo, video, and sound editing software that does what the user wants without taking years to learn, please send me links via PM or my profile visitor messages page. (CD/DVD burning progs, too!) I really don't want to go back to using WinBlow$, but if I can't find good progs I'll have to use the Evil OS whenever I need to do projects... I not only need to do some projects ASAP, but I miss doing them! 

And now, we shall return to the regularly scheduled program... plus, my pipe is lonely, and calling to me.  I need sleep... second star to the right, and straight on till morning!


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## PadawanBater (Dec 6, 2009)

[youtube]fi6V4MhhH7I[/youtube]


Bahaha! Awesome!


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## Vindicated (Dec 6, 2009)

Hahah, 'just some random mutation in the genetics... oh wait not that." 

Good video man. Thanks for sharing.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 9, 2009)

Thought becomes Prayer becomes Thing.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 9, 2009)

yes, thoughts have magical powers.... look, I'm a tree.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 9, 2009)

Yep, that sure is one magical stiff limb you have there, Mr. Cracker.

See,

thought became thingy.


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## morgentaler (Dec 9, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> Cracker you are so funny! Prayer actually does work, when you do it right.


Had to come back and re-address this.

If you are aware of the "correct" way to pray, so that it works, then it's quite sad that you haven't eliminated hunger, greed, war, disease, from the world. It's prayer after all. You don't need even need to leave your house to do it!

Okay, it's time for you to spout your "Cover Your Ass" material, about what prayer is and isn't capable of. Please cite your sources.

Also feel free to show people exactly where it tells you the proper methodology for prayer.


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## krustofskie (Dec 9, 2009)

I think this is how your supposed to pray correctly?


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## morgentaler (Dec 9, 2009)

I think that's how you're supposed to give thanks afterwards.
He sure looks thankful.


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## robert 14617 (Dec 10, 2009)

I was intrigued by the title , I am discouraged by the content


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## morgentaler (Dec 10, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> I am discouraged by the content


Exactly what I thought when I read the bible


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 10, 2009)

We believe it is quite sad that more of Humanity than not now prays for hunger, greed, war and disease in the world.

Simple math problem:

How many Hippies need to pray for the elimination of hunger before it is?

thoughts become things if you believe a prayer is a thought.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 10, 2009)

who prays for hunger?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 10, 2009)

*For All The Money In The World . . .* 

The dislocation of reality 
suffered by modern urban humans,
because they are in daily contact only 
with non-living, inanimate, man-made objects
befalls, unfortunately, in its most acute form, 
humans in positions of power
who should be bearing the responsibilities
for mankind&#8217;s weal and woe.
Yet what is real for them,
what they affect and what
reciprocally affects them
and what they think about continually 
is influence and money . . .
No wonder, then, that ecologists
are regarded as &#8220;nostalgic dreamers&#8221;
when they warm that cash in paper or metal,
even in gold itself,
or numbers in a bankbook or on a balance sheet
are mere symbols
and that the real necessities of life,
such as pure air and un-poisoned water
and uncontaminated soil
and an intact protective ozone layer
above the earth&#8217;s surface,
will very soon no longer be buyable

for all the money in the world.

- Loren Eisley

Does Humanity know not how to feed itself?


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## CrackerJax (Dec 10, 2009)

[youtube]PqJpZOljjG8[/youtube]


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## Johnnyorganic (Dec 10, 2009)

^^^^Now that's what I call *comprehensive* fire insurance.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 10, 2009)

E meters ...  Holey moley ...


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## OregonMeds (Dec 10, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> I was intrigued by the title , I am discouraged by the content


Morgen said the same thing about the bible but I don't think that's enough to make the point. 

I hope he comes back to see this:


* [FONT=&quot] Cruelty and Violence in the 1st Four Books of the Bible[/FONT]*

* Genesis*

1. God likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved. 4:3-5 2. Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8
3. God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17
4. God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4
5. God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23
6. Noah kills the "clean beasts" and burns their dead bodies for God. According to 7:8 this would have caused the extinction of all "clean" animals since only two of each were taken onto the ark. "And the Lord smelled a sweet savor." 8:20
7. To free Lot from captivity, Abram sends an army of slaves to pursue and smite his captors. 14:14-15
8. God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10
9. Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. "And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled." 16:6
10. Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Pet.2:7-8. 19:7-8
11. God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family. 19:24
12. God threatens to kill Abimelech and his people for believing Abe's lie. 20:3-7
13. God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13
14. Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, is "defiled" by a man who seems to love her dearly. Her brothers trick all of the men of the town and kill them (after first having them all circumcised), and then take their wives and children captive. 34:1-31
15. "The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them." I don't know what the "terror of God" is, but I'll bet it isn't pleasant. 35:5
16. "And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." What did Er do to elicit God's wrath? The Bible doesn't say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7
17. After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to "go in unto they brother's wife." But "Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and ... when he went in unto his brother's wife ... he spilled it on the ground.... And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also." This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control. 38:8-10
18. After Judah pays Tamar for her services, he is told that she "played the harlot" and "is with child by whoredom." When Judah hears this, he says, "Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." 38:24
19. Joseph interprets the baker's dream. He says that the pharaoh will cut off the baker's head, and hang his headless body on a tree for the birds to eat. 40:19

* Exodus*

20. Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12 21. God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23
22. God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26
23. God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4
24. "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17
25. God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. 7:17-24
26. The fifth plague: all cattle in Egypt die. 9:2-6
27. The sixth plague: boils and blains upon man and beast. 9:9-12
28. "For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth." Who else but the biblical god could be so cruel? 9:14
29. God kills all Egyptian cattle with hail. 9:19-20
30. The seventh plague is hail. "And the hail smote throughout the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast." 9:22-25
31. These verses clearly show that the mass murder of innocent children by God was premeditated. 11:4-6 (see 12:29-30)
32. God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." 11:7
33. God explains to Moses that he intends to "smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. 12:12
34. After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh's heart, he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished "there was not a house where there was not one dead." Finally, he runs out of little babies to kill, so he slaughters the firstborn cattle, too. 12:29
35. To commemorate the divine massacre of the Egyptian children, Moses instructs the Israelites to "sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix" -- all the males, that is. God has no use for dead, burnt female bodies. 13:2, 12, 15
36. After hardening Pharaoh's heart a few more times, God drowns Pharaoh's army in the sea 14:4-28
37. Moses and the people sing praises to their murderous god. 15:1-19
38. "The Lord is a man of war." Indeed, judging from his acts in the Old Testament, he is a vicious warlike monster. 15:3
39. God's right hand dashes people in pieces. 15:6
40. Joshua, with God's approval, kills the Amalekites "with the edge of the sword." 17:13
41. "The Lord has sworn [God swears!] that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." 17:14-16
42. Any person or animal that touches Mt. Sinai shall be stoned to death or "shot through." 19:12-13
43. God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such "burnt offerings," he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24
44. A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15,17
45. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 21:24-25
46. If an ox gores someone, then both the ox and its owner must die. 21:28-29
47. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Thousands of innocent women have suffered excruciating deaths because of this verse. 22:18
48. "Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death." Is it really necessary to kill such people? Couldn't we just send them to counseling or something? 22:19
49. "He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed. 22:20
50. If you make God angry enough, he will kill you and your family with his own sword. 22:24
51. "The firstborn of thy sons thou shalt give unto me." (As a burnt offering?) 22:29
52. God promises to "send his fear before the Israelites" and to kill everyone that they encounter when they enter the promised land. 23:27
53. Moses has some animals killed and their dead bodies burned for God. Then he sprinkles their blood on the altar and on the people. This makes God happy. 24:5-8
54. Get some animals, kill them, chop up their bodies, wave body parts in the air, burn the carcasses, and sprinkle the blood all around -- in precisely the way God tells you. It may well make you sick, but it makes God feel good. 29:11-37
55. Have your killed and offered your bullock for a sin offering today? How about the two lambs you are supposed to offer each day? 29:36-39
56. Wash up or die. 30:20-21
57. Whoever puts holy oil on a stranger shall be "cut off from his people." 30:33
58. Those who break the Sabbath are to be executed. 31:14
59. God asks to be left alone so that his "wrath may wax hot" and he can "consume them. 32:10
60. God orders the sons of Levi (Moses, Aaron, and the other members of their tribe that were "on the Lord's side") to kill "every man his neighbor." "And there fell of the people that day about 3000 men." 32:27-28
61. But God wasn't satisfied with the slaughter of the 3000, so he killed some more people with a plague. 32:35
62. If you can't redeem him, then just "break his neck." Hey, it's all for the glory of God. 34:20
63. Whoever works, or even kindles a fire, on the Sabbath "shall be put to death." 35:2-3

* Leviticus*

64. God gives detailed instructions for performing ritualistic animal sacrifices. such bloody rituals must be important to God, judging from the number of times that he repeats their instructions. Indeed the entire first nine chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a "sweet savor unto the Lord." Chapters 1 - 9 65. Wringing off the heads of pigeons for God. 5:8-9
66. The holy law of trespass offering: Find an animal; kill it; sprinkle the blood around; offer God the fat, rump, kidneys, and caul; burn and eat it in the holy place, for "it is most holy." 7:1-6
67. The priest must sprinkle the blood of the peace offerings. 7:14
68. Be careful what you eat during these animal sacrifices. Don't eat fat or blood -- these are for God. (And he doesn't like to share!) 7:18-27
69. God gives instructions for "wave offerings" and "heave offerings." He says these offerings are to be made perpetually "by a statute for ever." Have you made your heave offering today? 7:30-36
70. Moses does it all for God. First he kills an animal; wipes the blood on Aaron's ears, thumbs, and big toes. Then he sprinkles blood round about and waves the guts before the Lord. Finally he burns the whole mess for "a sweet savour before the Lord." 8:14-32
71. More killing, sprinkling of blood, waiving animal parts, and burning carcasses "before the Lord." 9:8-21
72. Two of the sons of Aaron "offered strange fire before the Lord" and "there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord." 10:1-2
73. If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by uncovering their heads, tearing their clothes, leaving with holy oil on them, or by drinking "wine or strong drink", then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." 10:6-9
74. God's treatment for leprosy: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient's right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. 14:2-32
75. God explains the use of scapegoats. It goes like this: Get two goats. Kill one. Wipe, smear, and sprinkle the blood around seven times. Then take the other goat, give it the sins of all the people, and send it off into the wilderness. 16:6-28
76. If you upset God, he'll cause the land to vomit you out. 18:25
77. "Whosoever shall commit any of these abominations ... shall be cut off from among their people." I'm not sure what being "cut off" means exactly, but I bet it isn't any fun. 18:29, 19:8
78. Kill anyone who "gives his seed" to Molech. If you refuse, God will cut you and your family off. 20:2-5
79. "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death." Couldn't we try spanking first? 20:9
80. Both parties in adultery shall be executed. 20:10
81. "And the man that lieth with his father's wife ... both of them shall be put to death." Which? The man and his father? The father and his wife? Or the man and his father's wife? Oh heck, just kill all three. 20:11
82. If a man "lies" with his daughter-in-law, then both must be killed. 20:12
83. Homosexuals must be executed. 20:13
84. If you "lie" with your wife and your mother-in-law (now that sounds fun!), then all three of you must be burned to death. 20:14
85. If a man or woman "lie with a beast" both the person and the poor animal are to be killed. 20:15-16
86. People with "familiar spirits" (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) are to be stoned to death. 20:27
87. A priest's daughter who "plays the whore" is to be burned to death. 21:9
88. God gives us more instructions on killing and burning animals. I guess the first nine chapters of Leviticus wasn't enough. He says we must do this because he really likes the smell -- it is "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 23:12-14, 18
89. Don't do any work on the day of atonement or God will destroy you. 23:29-30
90. A man curses and blasphemes while disputing with another man. Moses asks God what to do about it. God says that the whole community must stone him to death. "And the children of Israel did as the Lord and Moses commanded." 24:10-23
91. Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community. 24:16
92. God tells the Israelites to "chase" their enemies and make them "fall before you by the sword." He figures five of the Israelites will be able to "chase" a hundred of their enemies, and a hundred will be able to "put ten thousand to flight." 26:7-8
93. God describes torments that he has planned for those who displease him. The usual stuff: plagues, burning fevers that will consume the eyes, etc. but he reserves the worst for the little children. He says "ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it", "I will send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children", and "ye shall eat the flesh of your sons .. daughters." 26:16-39
94. All "devoted" things (both man and beast) "shall surely be put to death." 27:28-29

* Numbers*

95. God displays his hospitality with the admonition: "The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." 1:51 96. Two of Aaron's sons are killed by God for "offering strange fire before the Lord." 3:4
97. God repeats his order (see 1:51) to kill any strangers who happen to come near. 3:10
98. Once again (see 1:51 and 3:10) God tells his favorite people to kill any strangers that come near. 3:38
99. Don't touch or "go in to see when the holy things are covered." God kills people who touch or look at uncovered holy things. 4:15, 4:20
100. "And when the people complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it." (He had his hearing aid on.) He then burns the complainers alive. That'll teach them. 11:1
101. "And wile the flesh [of the quails] was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague. "The Bible isn't too clear about what these poor folks did to upset God so much; all it says is that they had "lusted." 11:33
102. More plagues and pestilence sent by God. God repeats one of his favorite promises: "your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness." 14:12, 29, 14:32-37
103. God gives more instructions for the ritualistic killing of animals. The smell of burning flesh is "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 15:3, 13-14, 24
104. The Israelites find a man picking up sticks on the sabbath. God commands them to kill him by throwing rocks at him. 15:32-36
105. Because of a dispute between Korah and Moses, God makes the ground open up and it swallows Korah and his family. And then, just for the hell of it, God has a fire burn 250 men (friends of Korah?) to death. 16:20-49
106. After God killed Korah, his family, and 250 innocent bystanders, the people complained saying, "ye have killed the people of the Lord." So God, who doesn't take kindly to criticism, sends a plague on the people. And "they that died in the plague were 14,700." 16:41-50
107. God threatens to kill those who murmur. To which the people reply, "Behold, we die, we perish, we all perish .... Shall we be consumed with dying?" 17:12-13
108. According to this verse, it is wise to stay away from holy things and places -- like churches. God will kill you if you get too close. 18:3
109. God shows us how to make new friends by saying : "The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." 18:7
110. God describes once again the procedure for ritualistic animal sacrifices. such rituals must be extremely important to God, since he makes their performance a "statute" and "covenant" forever. Why, then don't Bible-believers perform these sacrifices anymore? Don't they realize how God must miss the "sweet savour" of burning flesh? Don't they believe God when he says "forever"? 18:17-19
111. Don't get near holy things or "pollute" them. If you do, God will kill you. 18:22, 32
112. The purification of the unclean. These absurd rituals, cruel sacrifices, and unjust punishments are vitally important to God. He even insists that they are to be "a perpetual statute" to all humankind. 19:1-22
113. "And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities." This verse demonstrates the power of prayer: If you ask God, he will destroy entire cities for you. 21:3
114. God sends "fiery serpents" to bite his chosen people, and many of them die. 21:6
115. God delivers the Amorites into Moses' hands. (You're in God hands with Moses.) So Moses does the usual thing, killing everyone "until their was none left alive." 21:34-35
116. God's people will kill like a lion and then "drink the blood of the slain." 23:24
117. God, who is as strong as a unicorn, will eat up the nations, break their bones, and then pierce them through with his arrows. What a guy! 24:8
118. After the people "commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab," Moses has them all killed. Then God tells Moses to hang their dead bodies up in front of him; God says that this will satisfy him. 25:1-5
119. When one of the Israelite men brings home a foreign woman, "Phinehas (Aaron's grandson) sees them and throws a spear "through the man .. and the woman through her belly." This act pleases God so much that "the plague was stayed from the children of Israel." But not before 24,000 had died. 25:6-9
120. God tells Moses how to care for his neighbors by saying: "Vex the Midianites, and smite them." 25:16-17
121. The ground swallow Korah and his companions and a fire consumes 250 men. 26:10
122. "And Nadab and Abihu died when they offered strange fire before the Lord." When you go camping avoid making any unusual fires. 26:61
123. In these chapters, God provides ridiculously detailed instructions for the ritualistic sacrifice of animals. The burning of their dead bodies smells great to God. Eleven times in these two chapters God says that they are to him a "sweet savour."
124. Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins -- Wow! [Even God gets some of the booty -- including the virgins. (31:28-29)] 31:1-54 28-29
125. God killed all the Egyptian firstborn. 33:4
126. "The revenger of blood" must murder the murderer just as soon as he sees him. 35:19, 21
127. When a murder is committed the blood pollutes the land. The only way to cleanse it is to spill more blood by killing the killer. 35:33

\


Feel free to compare to your old testament, it's all there. Us athiests are angry with organized religion, you should at least try to see why first before you judge us.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 11, 2009)

Feel free to compare to your old testament, it's all there. Us athiests are angry with organized religion, you should at least try to see why first before you judge us. 


Lol, brilliant.


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## strain stalker (Dec 11, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA


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## OregonMeds (Dec 11, 2009)

[Youtube]ZVUfLJVSdjg[/Youtube]


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## Johnnyorganic (Dec 11, 2009)

An atheist is *duly elected* to the Ashville, N.C. city council but his opponents are citing the state constitution which states, *The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.*

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20091208/NEWS01/912080327/Critics-of-Cecil-Bothwell-cite-N.C.-bar-to-atheists

Exactly *who* is being discriminated against here?

Believers? Hardly.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 11, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> An atheist is *duly elected* to the Ashville, N.C. city council but his opponents are citing the state constitution which states, *The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.*
> 
> http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20091208/NEWS01/912080327/Critics-of-Cecil-Bothwell-cite-N.C.-bar-to-atheists
> 
> ...


 
Atheist = the new [email protected]

"back of the bus!"


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## PadawanBater (Dec 11, 2009)

[youtube]PToUilTf-Ww[/youtube]


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## Dr.RR (Dec 13, 2009)

To the original poster - Thank you for taking the time to write that. I agree 100% with everything you stated. I grew up not going to church but I knew about God and Jesus and that...never read the bible. people ask me wat i am and I dont even know...i feel weird saying Atheist because ppl just flip a damn switch when they find that out... But is this what Atheism is? I agree with everythin u wrote there!


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## OregonMeds (Dec 14, 2009)

Say realist then instead of athiest, they are probably too dumb to know it means the same thing anyway and it will feel better to them.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 14, 2009)

Humanist/PEaRList/Realist/Skeptic = Atheist

Respect, Dr.RR


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## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Fantastic claims need proof. 

Where;s the beef?


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## conawaaay (Dec 14, 2009)

wow this argument is just simply mind boggling sometimes when you try to express realist views upon a Christian raised person....i have learned since one of my best friends still believes in the almighty that its sometimes best to just(pretend to) listen and nod when religious views are expressed ...and being a long time atheist(probably since the age of 11 or 12?) i have definitely had enough time to realize that its not really anything to brag about especially towards more....naive and misguided folk, i mean most religious people will most likely give you a strange look when you try to explain to them that " I am my own god in a way"
so yeah basicly after that i picked up on the fact that its really unimportant in the aspect of coexisting with your fellow meatsacks to inform what to believe or not to believe cuz everyone is different but the same in a way and nobody wants to believe that their beliefs are wrong


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

"I am my own god in a way"

Not the Belief of an Atheist.

You are something else, my friend.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Pointing out the obvious flaws in the myth is a big no no .... 

Ppl would rather be blind and comfortable rather than seeing reality and dealing with it.

Religious folks take the easy way out. And they don't like to be reminded of it, even by example.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

"Ppl would rather be blind and comfortable rather than seeing reality and dealing with it."

Blind is much more comfortable than having your feet roasted off until 

You Believe

Modern Religions use fires existing in the Souls of their Believers.


----------



## conawaaay (Dec 14, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "I am my own god in a way"
> 
> Not the Belief of an Atheist.
> 
> You are something else, my friend.


hmm like a learning teenage dirtbag?
i would like to know what i something else means btw
but i didnt really mean it as in i believe that i am my own god, it was just a stupid way for me to try to push my nonviews on a religious person.....kinda like how all my family tried to do the same on me with the whole jesus thing...and may i also get an example of what an atheist believes in?
i thought that being an atheist as a lack of belief
why did i say some shit like that to a religious person? good question, but i think in a kind of fucked up way it was my way of telling him that where as he gets his strength and whatnot from jesus, god, w/e, i get my strength from within
so does this still make me something else?
if so then please give me a name for it so i can categorize myself some more


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## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Conawaaaay, ur category is one of logic and reason. Be proud.


----------



## conawaaay (Dec 14, 2009)

cracker....you just blew my friggin mind man


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Quick!!! Grab a Bible before ur brain reforms!!!


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

Oh. 

Miscommunication occurred.

We Believe " I am my own god in a way" = ". . . but i didnt really mean it as in i believe that i am my own god" confuses Us.

"hmm like a learning teenage dirtbag?"

We absolutely Love the Insults because they are always First.

We're rubber, You're glue.

Insults are Just Failed concepts pinpointing the true Nature of the Insultor's fears.

Don't fuck with Nerthus, if You consider Bad-Assed Teenagers Spooky, my friend.

Because Everyone Knows No One is Spookier than Your Boogie Man.

The only thing scarier is Fear itself.

Write for Us what You are Afraid Of.


----------



## conawaaay (Dec 14, 2009)

ok hippie you have got to be kidding me
that was not an insult in the slightest
and actually in this case i am the rubber and the glue
and the teenage dirtbag
follow me now?


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

Explanations leading to enlightenment are quite blissful, are they not?

Thank You

May We suggest you pursue an Avatar Solution as they appear critical to the Human Forum Interface here at RIU?

Please Choose A Personality, if you would.

The Official Rules are You Can Have Only One, not a Zero.

Hippie Tip:

Nobody has defined the Personality Rules here yet, so please don't close Your Mind.


----------



## conawaaay (Dec 14, 2009)

in case you still didnt get it, and i pass out in my delirium , then im only 19, dont know much of what i really believe in myself but i would like to call myself an atheist because well frankly its just easy to say and i dont know what else i could possibly respond with(other than humanist, realist, etc)
no disrespect meant, and definitely a miscommunication on both parties so glad we cleared that one up, but i really like the retro rubber glue thing also blew my mind at first


----------



## conawaaay (Dec 14, 2009)

lol an explanation? 
wow i think that one of us has this really twisted right now so im gona end it at that maybe you can pm me sometime and let me know that the phock we are talking about haha


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 14, 2009)

Wh speaks her own language, it takes a little getting used to but eventually you won't understand her unquestioningly.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

Since You are a Teenager, 

please do not concern yourself with the reference to Nerthus, or Your Boogie Man, or Fear itself.

Please do, however 

Write for Us what You are Afraid Of.

We'll show you Ours if you show Us yours.

Perhaps this is most likely not the appropriate thread for such an Underground Conversation.

Agnostic?


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

I love the royal "we".... she means the mythers ... like herself.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

Mr. Cracker, in the interest of civilized public debate, would you please be so kind as to write down any of the Myths in which you feel comfortable stating that you Do Not Believe?

Please know that We ask this with nothing but Good Intentions.

We will Share a Myth We Believe for every Belief you do not possess.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

I don't believe in any of them.

Myths by definition are not true. Nice pieces of literature sometimes, but that's all. It does also give a window into the primitive mind.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

"I don't believe in any of them."

Please, give Us just One?


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

There are tons of them, I just don't believe in any of them past a piece of fiction.

It's counterproductive.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

"There are tons of them, I just don't believe in any of them past a piece of fiction."

Please, give Us just One?


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Hansel and Gretel ....


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

Some do not Believe there exists a Germanic Fairy Tale recorded by the Brothers Grimm Hansel and Gretel ....

Others Believe in the Myth of Industrial Espionage.

Please give Us another Myth in which you do not Believe?


----------



## robert 14617 (Dec 14, 2009)

hippie how for off topic do you plan on going?


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Yah, that makes sense. It's all clear ... thanks.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

Perhaps this is most likely not the appropriate thread for such an Underground Conversation.

We thought this was the Non Myth Believing Thread.

Please accept Our apologies.

Please give Us another Myth in which Atheists do not Believe?


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 14, 2009)

I and I believe there's a preacher practicing double speak on the athiests.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

She thinks she's doing something ...


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

Please, Give Us Another?

An Atheist Preacher by definition cannot exist

here.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Pick any fairy tale, what's the difference? You don't need me to point them out.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

Please, Give Us Another?

We will Always give you a Good One in return.

Anytime you wish to define a Myth you do not believe in by Writing IT down


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Asked and answered ... move along. Next!!


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

We Believe Mr. Cracker, that it appears to Us through your lack of definition, You Super-Secretly Believe in other Myths besides Hansel and Gretel

which is Really not a Myth about frightened children in a Dark, Dank Forest after all.

How can an Atheist Believe?

That's Fucked up.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Next!!! ......


----------



## cph (Dec 14, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> We Believe Mr. Cracker, that it appears to Us through your lack of definition, You Super-Secretly Believe in other Myths besides Hansel and Gretel
> 
> which is Really not a Myth about frightened children in a Dark, Dank Forest after all.
> 
> ...


I believe your trolling ways are getting annoying!!


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

Please define this thread.

We do not wish to smell troll-like.

We are sorry for the mistake.

We will stay on-topic from now on.

Hippie.Out


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

She's a treadmill of mixed thoughts. 

A delusional repeat offender.

Take ur meds WH....


----------



## growwwww (Dec 14, 2009)

cracker that girl in your picture is so hot


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Heh, which one?


----------



## growwwww (Dec 14, 2009)

The beer drinking one !!!!


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Yes, she's got the whole package doesn't she? The impish smile ... and BIER! ... nice boobs ... and BIER! ...cute blonde ... and BIER!


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

We now understand this Thread to Be about German Atheist Beer Drinking Troll Girl Bieg Boobs.

Correct?


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Dec 14, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Heh, which one?


I'll take *both*! 

I know.... I'm a pig.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

I've always wanted 5 boobs ... two girls and myself ... that's 5.

WH ... don't understand guys yet? 

If we're not talking about sex, we are either looking at it or thinking about it.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

*"Yule is REAL. The others are NOT."

*Others Believe Yule is an Ancient Norse Myth.

Yet Others believe we were just revealing Ourselves in https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/275656-tasteful-nekid-people-marijuana-thread.html


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

Hmmm, you obviously don't know what Yule is ...


----------



## growwwww (Dec 14, 2009)

AH minkolio becareful!!! 

wtf is that cannabis church thing? Id be careful man...

Peace id take the link off


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

"Hmmm, you obviously don't know what Yule is ."

Perhaps another Atheist is preparing to State a Myth on Paper?

Perhaps He will say what He Believes?

We Believe the Asatru Folk Assembly

Believes in more than one Holiday, my friend.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 14, 2009)

It always seems to return to YOU not knowing ...


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 14, 2009)

[youtube]z0Bp-YTWvjw[/youtube]


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 14, 2009)

"YOU not knowing"

We know what you don't know We know.

Anybody seen Alice?


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 14, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> [youtube]z0Bp-YTWvjw[/youtube]


 *That's just some goofy ass shit there P...leave it to you to find the epitome of extreme stupidity to coin good people as foolish imps. *
*Surely you have school to attend? A girlfriend perhaps? (or for that matter, boyfriend )...in other words, SOME kind of life?*
*You couldn't possibly be THAT bored?*
*HAHAHAHA---yet you continuously prove otherwise. *


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 15, 2009)

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some Believe Cream pies, seltzer bottle sand[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Public Licking[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] are best for crowd control

[/FONT]


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 15, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some Believe Cream pies, seltzer bottle sand[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Public Licking[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] are best for crowd control[/FONT]


 
... I.. I'm just not even gonna try with that one...


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 15, 2009)

WH were you looking for Alice Dee or on LSD?


----------



## Cakk (Dec 15, 2009)

Great thread PadawanBater I totally agree


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Dec 15, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *That's just some goofy ass shit there P...leave it to you to find the epitome of extreme stupidity to coin good people as foolish imps. *
> *Surely you have school to attend? A girlfriend perhaps? (or for that matter, boyfriend )...in other words, SOME kind of life?*
> *You couldn't possibly be THAT bored?*
> *HAHAHAHA---yet you continuously prove otherwise. *


Now appearing in the *Atheism* thread for a *limited* engagement....

Ladies and gentlemen, *Babs the Confessor*!


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 15, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> Now appearing in the *Atheism* thread for a *limited* engagement....
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, *Babs the Confessor*!


 *...ditto*
*and to think I gave you POSITIVE rep while you salivate to give me neg rep. ...whateva.*


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 15, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *...ditto*
> *and to think I gave you POSITIVE rep while you salivate to give me neg rep. ...whateva.*


The world of RIU doesn't revolve around you and the sitewide conspiracy to bombard you with neg rep only exists in your head. You earn each and every neg rep you get, be proud, you deserve them. 

Check the crazy coincidence, we both have the same amount of posts, but not the same amount of rep. Wonder if that means anything...


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 16, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> The world of RIU doesn't revolve around you and the sitewide conspiracy to bombard you with neg rep only exists in your head. You earn each and every neg rep you get, be proud, you deserve them.
> 
> Check the crazy coincidence, we both have the same amount of posts, but not the same amount of rep. Wonder if that means anything...


*LOL at your usual kiddy remarks. At your age, I would think the last thing you would be concerned about is "rep" that you receive online. I don't even pay attention to it, but you make a point to compare....hysterical.*

*Just yet another example of how you fabricate. What I take pride in life has nothing to do with rep points on RIU---good or bad. You get every last one of your good reps for being an atheist a/hole.....yup, be proud.*


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Dec 16, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *...ditto*
> *and to think I gave you POSITIVE rep while you salivate to give me neg rep. ...whateva.*


Ditto? You are *agreeing* with me as I *mock* you for appearing in this thread *after* you said you were done. Classic.

Apparently I over-estimated your intellect completely.

And let me get this straight, are you *asking* me to blast you? Because that's the vibe I'm getting.

Uh... okay. *Which one* of you should I zap?


----------



## robert 14617 (Dec 16, 2009)

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/julia_sweeney_on_letting_go_of_god.html
this may have already been discussed but i would like to comment on it , i liked how she reached her awakening . my road getting here is similar ....... rob


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 16, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> Ditto? You are *agreeing* with me as I *mock* you for appearing in this thread *after* you said you were done. Classic.
> 
> Apparently I over-estimated your intellect completely.
> 
> ...


*Um, no...."ditto" ---as in back at ya. *
*
"Mock" as you wish Johnny. As I said, my entity is not defined by what you and your fellow atheists label me as.
* 
*Exactly where did I say that I would never reply to any of these threads again? I've not made it a point to keep up with it, but I commented to p's post. Why the need to start up with me? I so love online warriors. *

*See how so many of you notoriously make claims 'as so' when they never existed to begin with?*

*Johnny....by all means, if you see it as your fun point of the day to neg-rep me, my life won't turn upside down. *
*I'm glad to assist in providing joy to others lives.*

*I just think it sad when people use that as a tool for a power trip.*

*But, allow me to get something straight? You seem to have a problem with my commenting on an atheist thread. Very odd, considering you and so many other "atheists" frequent the spirituality threads to "mock."*

*And btw, being an atheist does not need to mean being an asshole. *


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 16, 2009)

Asking for substative logic is not mocking. 

You perceive it as mocking because you cannot respond with the answers or logic.

Then the desperation/frustration sets in and ur maturity level is revealed, and found wanting.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Dec 16, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Um, no...."ditto" ---as in back at ya. *
> *
> "Mock" as you wish Johnny. As I said, my entity is not defined by what you and your fellow atheists label me as.
> *
> ...


Oh, I don't know *Babaloo*, maybe it was this quote:


Babs34 said:


> *Debate amongst yourselves CJ.....tis your prerogative.*
> *I clearly stated that God, NOT religion, is not a debate.*
> *Your myth is the genuine genious you see as yourself.*
> *Leave me out of your debate. Thanks......The End*


Ditto is a *repeat* of something said previously. Which means you were repeating what I stated about *you*.

I believe the word you were looking for was 'likewise.' Ask Jesus/Santa for a dictionary for x-mas.

I'm not Atheist, btw. We've been all through that, but for *you* I suppose it bears repeating. 

So for *your* benefit I say: I'm not Atheist. Ditto. 

Do you *really* want neg rep from me? I really have no cause to send it to you as yet. But remember; if I decide to do it, your subsequent complaints about it will only add to the sad comedy which is *Babs the Confessor*.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 16, 2009)

I believe in no MAN MADE G*D.

I do believe in a creation point, until science proves otherwise, but the identification of the creation origin is UNKNOWN.

Logical?


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 16, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/julia_sweeney_on_letting_go_of_god.html
> this may have already been discussed but i would like to comment on it , i liked how she reached her awakening . my road getting here is similar ....... rob


If you enjoyed that you should watch the whole monologue on Showtime, that's just a trailer.

Troy


----------



## growwwww (Dec 16, 2009)

God can suck my balls.


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 16, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> Oh, I don't know *Babaloo*, maybe it was this quote:
> 
> Ditto is a *repeat* of something said previously. Which means you were repeating what I stated about *you*.
> 
> ...


 
LOL, I'm going to give little time to this.
No need to ask Jesus for a dictionary......he's busy answering MUCH more important issues at hand.
But anywho......if you're not an atheist, what exactly are you Johny? I'm all ears.
"Ditto"......did you ever watch the movie Ghost? If not, never mind.
There you go foolishy repeating yourself........."yeah Johnny, we all LIVE for neg-rep." You're on a power trip...face it. 

Do you *really* want neg rep from me? I really have no cause to send it to you as yet. But remember; if I decide to do it, your subsequent complaints about it will only add to the sad comedy which is *Babs the Confessor*.[/QUOTE]

*Careful now, you just gave yourself away. Know I've MUCH bigger demons to defeat. *

*Yo mon.......fire it up.*


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 16, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Asking for substative logic is not mocking.
> 
> You perceive it as mocking because you cannot respond with the answers or logic.
> 
> Then the desperation/frustration sets in and ur maturity level is revealed, and found wanting.


*Oh brother C*J, your usual evasive post. I'll give it what it's worthy of, more than actually.* 
*Moreover, you can not respond to the heart, the soul, the CORE of your very being. You are stuck on making yourself your Lord...tis your right--for the moment. God help you.*

*Oh yeah, maturity level reveals itself thoroughly.*


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 16, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *"rep" that you receive online. I don't even pay attention to it, but you make a point to compare....hysterical.
> *


When you're that full of shit you leave a stain wherever you go.


----------



## fulbright (Dec 16, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> [...] No need to ask Jesus for a dictionary......he's busy answering MUCH more important issues at hand. [...]


Yeah! Like solving world hunger problems, healing the sick, and ridding the world of infidels. 

Oh shit. I suppose I better go help him out. He's not doing so well. 

I'm aware that this post is in no way constructive or helpful, and I'm sorry. I just had this itch that needed scratching. All better now.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 17, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Oh brother C*J, your usual evasive post. I'll give it what it's worthy of, more than actually.*
> *Moreover, you can not respond to the heart, the soul, the CORE of your very being. You are stuck on making yourself your Lord...tis your right--for the moment. God help you.*
> 
> *Oh yeah, maturity level reveals itself thoroughly.*



Thank you for making my point for me.........


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Dec 17, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> LOL, I'm going to give little time to this.
> No need to ask Jesus for a dictionary......he's busy answering MUCH more important issues at hand.
> But anywho......if you're not an atheist, what exactly are you Johny? I'm all ears.
> "Ditto"......did you ever watch the movie Ghost? If not, never mind.
> ...


Ghost? Jesus Christ. When Demi said 'I love you' to Patrick he said ditto meaning 'I love you.' A repeat of *exactly* what she said. Which in that example, was an example of 'back at cha.'

Now just in case you use Hollywood as teacher. It would have been more correct for Patrick to say '*likewise*,' which would convey the message, '*Patrick* loves *Demi*, which is the same as 'I love you' in this example.

So when I *mocked* you for appearing in a thread after your conclusive *'The End*,' you dittoed me. You *repeated* everything I said about your sad little self. You may have intended to throw it back onto me, but you failed.

I've stated my position many times and I think I will not repeat it for *your* benefit.

You ask for negative rep then you raise hell about it. Your little tantrum here a while back proved that.

I know if I were accommodate you now you would do the same. I'll still do it if you insist, but you need to give me a reason.

On the other hand, I'm glad you're back in this thread. It's very entertaining to watch, but I am starting to feel a little guilty for teasing the village idiot.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 17, 2009)

Ditto ...


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 17, 2009)

It's sick entertainment for the rest of us, like watching a couple cats playing with a mouse.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 17, 2009)

And I'm tying half my wits behind my back!


----------



## Brazko (Dec 17, 2009)

Don't go Comatose trying to perform theatrics, 

Remember, Logic - Both hands on the Steering Wheel, Please..


----------



## jfgordon1 (Dec 17, 2009)

Brazko said:


> Don't go Comatose trying to perform theatrics,
> 
> Remember, Logic - Both hands on the Steering Wheel, Please..


Where have you been?.. Haven't seen you around lately...


----------



## FireCoral (Dec 17, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Say realist then instead of athiest, they are probably too dumb to know it means the same thing anyway and it will feel better to them.


Personally, I prefer to be called a "Secular Humanist". This is why:

Definitions of *secular humanism* on the Web:


humanism: the doctrine emphasizing a person's capacity for self-realization through reason; rejects religion and the supernatural 
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Secular humanism is a humanist philosophy that upholds reason, ethics, and justice, and specifically rejects the supernatural and the spiritual as the basis of moral reflection and decision-making. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
A form of religion that believes in humanistic values. Placing man before God. The thought that man is practically a god.
www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/dictionary/foundations.htm
An outlook or a philosophy that advocates human rather than religious values.
137.122.14.197/BIO1120/Includes/Glossary.htm


----------



## Brazko (Dec 18, 2009)

jfgordon1 said:


> Where have you been?.. Haven't seen you around lately...


I've been around time to time, reading threads & other sections. Been busy finishing up my winter harvest. 
(the bigger the Harvest , the bigger the clean up )

sometimes I vocalize myself too much, so it's been good reading the posts of others and staying quiet. Learning while I can, then maybe I can add something new again,


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 18, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> Ghost? Jesus Christ. When Demi said 'I love you' to Patrick he said ditto meaning 'I love you.' A repeat of *exactly* what she said. Which in that example, was an example of 'back at cha.'
> 
> Now just in case you use Hollywood as teacher. It would have been more correct for Patrick to say '*likewise*,' which would convey the message, '*Patrick* loves *Demi*, which is the same as 'I love you' in this example.
> 
> ...


HEHEHE, LOLOL...I just LOVE how you really think you just taught me something there. 

One day when the mood hits me, I'll elaborate as it so notingly necessary.
AND, I'll even go very, very SLOW.

Between your charm and CJ's "wit"....I'm just blown away.
Seriously though Johny. Please do quit projecting.


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 18, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> HEHEHE, LOLOL...I just LOVE how you really think you just taught me something there.


Don't be silly, nobody actually expects you to learn anything.

They just don't want to leave your prideful ignorance unaddressed.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 18, 2009)

It takes a mighty big ego to own a personal G*D.....


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 18, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Don't be silly, nobody actually expects you to learn anything.
> 
> They just don't want to leave your prideful ignorance unaddressed.


Ya nut, are you kidding? The only way to "be" is silly when dealing with the likes of you and a few others on this thread. You don't know how to take a damned thing seriously, to the heart, that is. God forbid.  
I gave up expecting you to ascertain any single thing of value after oh about.......post three probably.
I'm a realist.


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 18, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> It takes a mighty big ego to own a personal G*D.....


Nah baby, it takes an ego from hell---literally, to BE one's own God.


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 18, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> I'm a realist.


 
...except the things you believe in have never been proven to be real, yep, sounds like a ''realist'' to me...

What the hell are you doing in the atheism thread Babs? All you do is respond to all the atheists with gradeschool remarks. Do you actually feel like challenging one of our positions, I'm talking about one of our _actual_ positions, not some bullshit like Ben Stein spouts off "we came from a mudd puddle" (ironically enough that's actually what *he *believes...), real positions about how we got here, and why we don't believe in God?

What is the point of the shit you keep pulling?


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 18, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> ...except the things you believe in have never been proven to be real, yep, sounds like a ''realist'' to me...
> 
> What the hell are you doing in the atheism thread Babs? All you do is respond to all the atheists with gradeschool remarks. Do you actually feel like challenging one of our positions, I'm talking about one of our _actual_ positions, not some bullshit like Ben Stein spouts off "we came from a mudd puddle" (ironically enough that's actually what *he *believes...), real positions about how we got here, and why we don't believe in God?
> 
> What is the point of the shit you keep pulling?


 
They've not been proven "to you." Correct yourself.

It is no wonder WHY either p.

What the hell are you doing in the atheism thread Babs? (you dare pose that infantile question)
*It's pretty damn obvious, how's that for REALISM? YOU invited me here by starting this thread. Expect the one you mock (particularly in the beginnning of your thread) to jump in from time to time. *

*Where was it I even had the pleasure of making your acquaintance? Oh yes, and know I am being facetious.... it was the SPRIITUALITY thread that you bombed with your usual juvenile demands for proof.*

*Oh yes, it was you as well that made Science your god and predictor of all things and yet at the same asinine moment stated that science is not at all responisble for finding a cure for my disease..............you are nothing short of a deluded punk. *
*And I really do hate it for you.*


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 19, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> They've not been proven "to you." Correct yourself.
> 
> It is no wonder WHY either p.
> 
> ...


 
You misunderstood what I said. I'm fine with you being here and posting, I couldn't care less to be honest. But what you're doing, like I said, is just poping in, making some stupid childish remark, then leaving again, without adding anything of substance at all. That's it. That's the stupid shit I have an issue with. Make all the comments and posts you want in here, just add something to it when you do. 

My statement was correct, you believe in things that have not been proven to be true. (even indirectly admitting as much by saying "not proven *to you*" - something that can be regarded as "proof" is not limited to individuals. Provable things are provable to *everyone*. 

Quit with your bullshit, I'm not buying it.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 19, 2009)

Yes, proof is in the eye of the beholder.


Uhhh, no. It's either capable of being proven or it isn't.

Religious myths (Bible) are not provable, except for the fact it was written, as many many religions are. By whom? No one knows....it must be true, cause it says it is ...  

Sure, you go ahead and call that proof. 

Some of us aren't fooled quite so easily.....


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 19, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "But what you're doing, like I said, is just poping in, making some stupid childish remark, then leaving again, without adding anything of substance at all"
> 
> *Like a Ghostly Moon Walking Bear?
> 
> ...


I used to enjoy your off the wall stuff but now it's just really annoying. You have gone way too far.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 19, 2009)

WH is a cubic zirconia. A bit of flash, but no value.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 19, 2009)

"But what you're doing, like I said, is just poping in, making some stupid childish remark, then leaving again, without adding anything of substance at all" - *Dunno anymore*

Like a Ghostly Moon Walking Bear?

What does Mr. Babs say exactly, anyway?

Does He, Like the rest of Humansity create spectral spirals like a butterfly or a flying through butter on a the wings of a flyer or is He just* another  Boogie Man In A Fat Rabbit Suit ?

No Value = No Spam
*


----------



## Stoney McFried (Dec 19, 2009)

Ok...how the hell do you get in an argument with Johnny O? He's one of the nicest guys on this forum. I don't agree with some of the things he does,mostly a few points in politics, I think, but we've always been able to disagree civilly. 

Babs, damn, if CJ really pisses you off so much, ignore him. Why not challenge the ideas you oppose, instead of all the name calling?
As for the being one's own god, I believe I'm originally the gal who said that...and I explained, it doesn't mean a god in an omnipotent or holy sense, but that I am the master of my own destiny,and that I don't recognize any outside entity or force guiding me on my path. That's not arrogance,it's just truth.It's accepting responsibility for one's own successes and failures,and realizing that the only way to move forward is through action on your own behalf.



Now, you've got just as much right to be in this thread challenging the views expressed as we atheists do in any other spiritual thread.But if all you're doing is calling people names and posting angry remarks with little substance, that's not exactly representing your position in a positive light.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 19, 2009)

OR .... take a position that is capable of a defense.

So far ... fail.

Please ignore me ... plz.


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 19, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Ok...how the hell do you get in an argument with Johnny O? He's one of the nicest guys on this forum.


Cough cough choke cough. Ok, used to be that way...


----------



## Stoney McFried (Dec 19, 2009)

I must have missed something.He's always nice to me.Except for that one time when I humped him and he stole my wallet and wrote a bunch of bad checks at the Bunny Ranch.


OregonMeds said:


> Cough cough choke cough. Ok, used to be that way...


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 19, 2009)

Please Try To Understand.

We Are Aware and Agree With Johnny O. on many issues, *especially the way he handles his threads.*
*
We Tolerate Many More.

*Please Put Rescue Ink Rules In Your Mind.
Please prove otherwise, Our Accusers.
Anonymous quotes can be just words without meaning*, or perhaps they could mean something entirely different in the entirely different contextual Multiverses that exist in other minds.**
*


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 19, 2009)

edited:

I don't want to flame things up again, suffice to say we didn't get along all the sudden and I learned how he could get a bit out of control.


----------



## Stoney McFried (Dec 19, 2009)

Ah....I admit, that neg rep can be a fun thing when you get it back...it's just the internet equivalent of a bitch slap.Sorry to hear you guys had a fight. I gave you some nice positive rep, which is the internet equivalent of a handjob. 
EDIT:There, I edited your quote out of my post, in the interest of keeping the peace.


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks

The negative reps I could care less about, it was that the fight never seemed to end like it should have.

Man has a very unhappy life I think atm.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 19, 2009)

Can We Have Another One When The Internet Man In A Desert Is Done, Mommy Please?

IT is not straight yet 

*IT takes two to tango with Particle Man*
 


*We Love Our Mommies.*


----------



## Stoney McFried (Dec 19, 2009)

I don't know, I won't say anything bad about either of you, because you've both been cordial to me, and you're both on my friend's list. Maybe if you talked to each other in pm, it would clear the air.


OregonMeds said:


> Thanks
> 
> The negative reps I could care less about, it was that the fight never seemed to end like it should have.
> 
> Man has a very unhappy life I think atm.


Woodstock, sometimes I wonder if you're not WeLove1 in disguise....


Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Can We Have Another One When The Internet Man In A Desert Is Done, Mommy Please?
> 
> IT is not straight yet
> 
> IT takes two to tango.


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 19, 2009)

I don't get it either, but I'm still too pissed to talk in a pm. Maybe some day.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 19, 2009)

[youtube]sNT8SMlqLJA[/youtube]


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 19, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> I don't get it either, but I'm still too pissed to talk in a pm. Maybe some day.



JO is passionate....


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 19, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> I'm a realist.


Not in this universe.

The whole invisible-man-worship thing is a just a tiny giveaway.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 19, 2009)

*Can Particle Man Worship Be Tinyly Tolerable?*


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 19, 2009)

[youtube]bGoYbjzy8-s[/youtube]


----------



## Hydrotech364 (Dec 19, 2009)

The Bible is such a fucked up book.Full of bad stories and women hating.I will never pick it up again.


----------



## Katatawnic (Dec 20, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *You get every last one of your good reps for being an atheist a/hole.....yup, be proud.*


Did I receive my good reps for being an "atheist a/hole" too? I know you've not seen me post comments that would make you inclined to refer to me as such... atheist yes, but "a/hole" no. Or does one label automatically accompany the other? 



Babs34 said:


> *Oh yes, it was you as well that made Science your god and predictor of all things and yet at the same asinine moment stated that science is not at all responisble for finding a cure for my disease..............you are nothing short of a deluded punk. *
> *And I really do hate it for you.*


In all fairness Babs, no deity has gotten people like you and me any closer to a cure than science has. It's been the opposite, in fact. How many people have died because they refused medical care that their religions frowned upon, if not outright forbade? (Christian traditions/denominations included.) These people died completely unnecessarily, due to having refused treatment proven to cure a high percentage of said treatment's recipients. (I don't even want to get into the children who've died thanks to their parents refusing treatment in order to please their deity... it makes me way to angry to have the ability to be civil! )



Stoney McFried said:


> As for the being one's own god, I believe I'm originally the gal who said that...and I explained, it doesn't mean a god in an omnipotent or holy sense, but that I am the master of my own destiny,and that I don't recognize any outside entity or force guiding me on my path. That's not arrogance,it's just truth.It's accepting responsibility for one's own successes and failures,and realizing that the only way to move forward is through action on your own behalf.


Exactly how I've viewed it since I was a child. And honestly, if I *were* to believe that there are deities that are perfect, I'd be carrying around a lot more anger about terminal and chronic illness than I already do; and it'd all be directed at these deities for allowing any unnecessary and undeserved suffering to happen in the first place, much less neglecting to put a stop to it. I can accept that genetics gets screwy sometimes, and we get sick as a result of whacky DNA combinations. I could never accept that a being creating us "in its image" could be omnipotent, as we would be as well. The image of perfection is perfection, is it not? We're far from perfect, and with reason. There is no such thing as "perfection" as we perceive it.

(Hope I'm making sense... due to the necessity to treat pain caused by aforementioned chronic illness, the thinking and speaking centers in my brain aren't communicating so well right now. LOL!)



Woodstock.Hippie said:


> *Can Particle Man Worship Be Tinyly Tolerable?*


Your posts have become more and more "_HUH?!_" inspiring as of late.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

Babs, and WH ... mental flotsam & jetsam both.


----------



## growwwww (Dec 20, 2009)

If god does exist, its the athiests who i recon would be the first people running out and preaching his existence.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

Absolutely...... that would be ... logical.

The entire premise of belief without proof is mind numbing. Once the church gets ppl to swallow that whopper, the rest is easy.

If ur sitting in that pew on the weekend, ur telegraphing ur desire to be hoodwinked ... a captive audience ripe for manipulation and a shakedown. And boy does the church shake them down....


----------



## Katatawnic (Dec 20, 2009)

Alllllllllrighty then!


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

How about U figure it out WH ... we're already there.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 20, 2009)

*Please Flesh Out The Following.

*Particle Man - ?
Triangle Man - ?
Universe Man - ?
Person Man - ?

If You want to understand what I'm about, then please take your shoes off, don't scream, and let's just calmly talk about Particle Man.

Doc?

If We're Not Careful, This Thread Will Disappear.

Whern Is The Age Of Aquarius? *

[youtube]sNT8SMlqLJA[/youtube]
*
*
What Have You Figured Out, Mr. Cracker?

Let's Discuss.*

*Consider Me Ignorant*.

*Particle Man Is You, Mr. Cracker.*


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

Finally, a judgment utters forth.


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 20, 2009)

Hippie, nobody speaks the language you're using. I'll ask you to speak clear human english as taught by the public school system in the thread.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

By the way, the band that wrote the song doesn't put anything into it at all by way of meaning. 

It's simply slick marketing. 

The band must laugh at stuff like WH posts ... all the way to the bank.


----------



## Katatawnic (Dec 20, 2009)

You must not be aware of the public school's teaching of reading (or lack thereof, I should clarify) as of late, my Padawan.


----------



## growwwww (Dec 20, 2009)

The hippie guy is jokes!!!


----------



## doc111 (Dec 20, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> *Please Flesh Out The Following.*
> 
> Particle Man - ?
> Triangle Man - ?
> ...


 Who is particle man?


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

I am!! Muhahahah!!!


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 20, 2009)

Cracker is particle man? Shit! I wish I had my hippie decoder ring, because I bet that's either really funny or a major burn if you understand it.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

Particle man cannot be singed!!!

Pssst ... it's a nonsensical song to make $$$$$$ ( oh no!)


----------



## doc111 (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Particle man cannot be singed!!!
> 
> Pssst ... it's a nonsensical song to make $$$$$$ ( oh no!)


The physicists working at the Hadron collider are "Particle Men".


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

Super scientists they are!!!

Cracking the nut of our true existence.... only science can do that.


----------



## doc111 (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Super scientists they are!!!
> 
> Cracking the nut of our true existence.... only science can do that.


In search of the "God Particle".


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

Yes, they probably cringe in private at that label ...


----------



## doc111 (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Yes, they probably cringe in private at that label ...


I hope so. I like to see a scientist cringe. Funny stuff.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

doc111 said:


> I hope so. I like to see a scientist cringe. Funny stuff.


 It's another hurdle they must jump ... trying not to spook the superstitious.

Certainly they didn't name it that ...


----------



## doc111 (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> It's another hurdle they must jump ... trying not to spook the superstitious.
> 
> Certainly they didn't name it that ...


Surely not. I think it was the cover of Time magazine or something. The big fear is that they will create a minature black hole which will grow and swallow the earth.


----------



## doc111 (Dec 20, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> *No God Particle.*
> 
> *Just Particle Man.*
> 
> *Can Triangle Man = Army Man?*


Traingle man seems like a bully to me.


----------



## sunshine1754 (Dec 20, 2009)

growwwww said:


> God can suck my balls.


Forgive them Father they know not what they say


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

doc111 said:


> Surely not. I think it was the cover of Time magazine or something. The big fear is that they will create a minature black hole which will grow and swallow the earth.



Yah, leave it to Time mag ... who ever even reads that rag anymore?? 

Trying to sell ... like everyone.

Sunshine ... grow up.


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 20, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> Forgive them Father they know not what they say


Athiests don't want forgiveness from your imaginary extremely judgemental friend though. If it were as you say all our faults are his fault because he made us imperfect when he didn't have to. He supposedly made us like this, controlled so much by chemistry in our brains and emotion rather than logic driven, thus we have every right to tell him (if there were such a thing) to suck all our balls.


----------



## doc111 (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Yah, leave it to Time mag ... who ever even reads that rag anymore??
> 
> Trying to sell ... like everyone.
> 
> Sunshine ... grow up.


I catch the cover when I'm in the checkout line. I also get all the latest John & Kate gossip!


----------



## Katatawnic (Dec 20, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> Forgive them Father they know not what they say


How could you possibly know what others do or don't know? You're not psychic; psychotic perhaps, but not psychic. *Shoo.* 



OregonMeds said:


> Athiests don't want forgiveness from your imaginary extremely judgemental friend though. If it were as you say all our faults are his fault because he made us imperfect when he didn't have to. He supposedly made us like this, controlled so much by chemistry in our brains and emotion rather than logic driven, thus we have every right to tell him (if there were such a thing) to suck all our balls.


Like I said earlier... the image of perfect is perfect, and since we're not perfect, then we can't have been "created in the image of" such a perfect being.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

doc111 said:


> I catch the cover when I'm in the checkout line. I also get all the latest John & Kate gossip!


Hah! So true! 

Smoke a bowl for science and watch this Doc. U 2 Kat 

[youtube]e7DkeQ0roAM[/youtube]


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 20, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> Like I said earlier... the image of perfect is perfect, and since we're not perfect, then we can't have been "created in the image of" such a perfect being.


Yea but they'll say he works in mysterious ways or something don't you know, like maybe "what could we have learned from being perfect"? As if he had to make us imperfect to teach a lesson.

We wouldn't have needed to learn any lessons had we been made perfect, cause we'd already be perfect.

What's funny about perfection though, is the idea a perfect being who made us imperfect sits up there judging us for his own doing and furthermore punishing those who fail on a very small temporary scale of a human life to infinite torture on a permanent scale.

That kind of thinking is what defines insanity...

And where is the perfection in infinite torture anyway? It's infinately sick, but not perfect no matter which way you look at it.


----------



## doc111 (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Hah! So true!
> 
> Smoke a bowl for science and watch this Doc. U 2 Kat
> 
> [youtube]e7DkeQ0roAM[/youtube]


That's great! I like the bacteria one. Priceless!


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

Pssst.... there is no perfection ... anywhere. It's not a goal. Only in our minds does that have traction.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

Schrodinger's cat was mine Doc !! and doesn't ... classic.


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Pssst.... there is no perfection ... anywhere. It's not a goal. Only in our minds does that have traction.


But there must be perfection because who would worship imperfection? You can fear imperfection, but it's hard to sell worshiping it.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

Ahhh, okay, yes in myth there is perfection. that's why they are myths...


----------



## Imaulle (Dec 20, 2009)

welp, I'm at that point in my life right now where I do a lot of thinking about death. No matter what answers I find, or whatever conclusion I can come to, it still depresses the fuck out of me. Even if there was a God, and Heaven and hell and all of that, what is the point? I mean really... If you're an omnipotent being... Congratulations? now what? Have fun being all powerful and all knowing for eternity... this existence was here forever before me, and will be here forever after me... that thought is what really depresses me lately.

Most Atheists that I've found will quote Einstein and say stuff like "A person starts to live when he can live outside himself." but to me, this is just like.. busy work? to keep your thoughts off the fact that whatever this is.. this existence, has no meaning. the best I can hope for is that I can just do what I want when I want and try to be happy. I'm not gona bust me ass to try to impressive everyone and lead this extraordinary life. I'll just do what I want, when I want. I guess there is just very little that matters to me...

Whatever answers I do find, I will need to find on my own. But I don't think they will be anywhere on this planet, lol. Any answers dealing with any type of afterlife, will not be found in any man made book or beliefs. Whatever this is, has nothing to do with jesus or christianity or all that complete b.s.


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 20, 2009)

Imaulle said:


> welp, I'm at that point in my life right now where I do a lot of thinking about death. No matter what answers I find, or whatever conclusion I can come to, it still depresses the fuck out of me. Even if there was a God, and Heaven and hell and all of that, what is the point? I mean really... If you're an omnipotent being... Congratulations? now what? Have fun being all powerful and all knowing for eternity... this existence was here forever before me, and will be here forever after me... that thought is what really depresses me lately.
> 
> Most Atheists that I've found will quote Einstein and say stuff like "A person starts to live when he can live outside himself." but to me, this is just like.. busy work? to keep your thoughts off the fact that whatever this is.. this existence, has no meaning. the best I can hope for is that I can just do what I want when I want and try to be happy. I'm not gona bust me ass to try to impressive everyone and lead this extraordinary life. I'll just do what I want, when I want. I guess there is just very little that matters to me...
> 
> Whatever answers I do find, I will need to find on my own. But I don't think they will be anywhere on this planet, lol. Any answers dealing with any type of afterlife, will not be found in any man made book or beliefs. Whatever this is, has nothing to do with jesus or christianity or all that complete b.s.


This message brought to you by:

The lets not forget it's a sad lonely and pointless world without god foundation. 

Bringing the brutal truth back into self enlightenment since 2009.

Sorry man hope you laughed at least.


----------



## sunshine1754 (Dec 20, 2009)

Demoniac*persons*know*not*action*or*inaction,*neither*purity*nor*yet*(correct)*conduct*nor*veracity*are*in*them.*They*say*the*universe*is*devoid*of*truth,*devoid*of*fixed*principle,*and*devoid*of*a*ruler,*produced*by*union*(of*male*and*female)*caused*by*lust,*and*nothing*else.


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 20, 2009)

Oh my god... really? 

PS: I had to look up Demoniac because I wasn't sure it was a word. It is. But I found you this link to help you right under the first hit on google:

The Jezebel Spirit
Learn how to stop Jezebel ...in less than 24 hours!
www.jonasclark.com

Try that on me I want to see if I'm a demoniac.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 20, 2009)

He's touched on nihilism inadvertently. A life examined is a wasted life. 

Just enjoy the ride, it's a short one.


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Asking for substative logic is not mocking.
> 
> You perceive it as mocking because you cannot respond with the answers or logic.
> 
> Then the desperation/frustration sets in and ur maturity level is revealed, and found wanting.


 *Try paying attention CJ. My comment had absolutely nothing to do with perception. He very clearly stated he was mocking me...HIS words.*
*As usual, you're so busy attempting to be witty, as you are maturely "accusing."*
*Save your judgements regarding my perceptions and worry about your own. *


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> WH is a cubic zirconia. A bit of flash, but no value.


 *Speak for yourself...projection at large. *


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 20, 2009)

Babs if you are saying what I think you are saying (not that cracker is whatever but maybe that you understand hippie) can you decode hippie and you "get it" ?

Please you would be loved by the whole forum if you would just follow around from time to time and translate.

please


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 20, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Ok...how the hell do you get in an argument with Johnny O? He's one of the nicest guys on this forum. I don't agree with some of the things he does,mostly a few points in politics, I think, but we've always been able to disagree civilly.
> 
> Babs, damn, if CJ really pisses you off so much, ignore him. Why not challenge the ideas you oppose, instead of all the name calling?
> As for the being one's own god, I believe I'm originally the gal who said that...and I explained, it doesn't mean a god in an omnipotent or holy sense, but that I am the master of my own destiny,and that I don't recognize any outside entity or force guiding me on my path. That's not arrogance,it's just truth.It's accepting responsibility for one's own successes and failures,and realizing that the only way to move forward is through action on your own behalf.
> ...


 *I'm not fighting with JO.*

*I will say though that when a person makes it a point to make their very first post to me cynical, I tend to stay on course. When I do it, I'm accused of "accusing." When others familiar to this thread do so, they are cheered on.*

*CJ doesn't piss me off, LOL. I'm sure he'd love to think I go to bed on pins and needles from his shared wit, alas....I either laugh or roll my eyes.*

*Oh boy, you don't want me to get started on the name calling I've "endured."*
*It's too bad that my tone is not "heard"..I'm nowhere near as angry as I've been accused.  I've found most of what is posted here as just plain silly.*
*Oh, and please don't misunderstand. I am a firm believer that we are masters of our own destiny. We all have choices daily in life that get us from point A to point B.*

*But let's be honest here. There have been numerous posts that have little substance...over and over again. I don't get the award for that.*

*A whole lot has obviously been overlooked. I'm not about to go back over several threads to attempt to show or prove/disprove any thing at all. To do so would be a ridiculous waste of time.*

*Look Stoney, when you have posted to me "as an atheist".....you don't go on tangent after tangent as to how STUPID I am....although it's probably a given that any given atheist think a "believer" stupid on that level. *
*My point being...I give back what I'm given---without expending needless negative energy day in and day out.*

*I've offered plenty in the way of substance, but let's just get to the heart of this all. No believer is going to be able to prove God as real to any of you. This thread, along with many others, serves as more of a purpose so often to mock and otherwise degrade. There's been very little in the way of substance.*

*I've never had that vibe from you, but I think it's fairly obvious who I have felt has been needlessly condascending to me. What that shows me is a need from certain individuals to uphold an image of themselves by playing off of others "supposed" stupidity.*
*No anger on my end.*
**


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 20, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> OR .... take a position that is capable of a defense.
> 
> So far ... fail.
> 
> Please ignore me ... plz.


 *LOL, it is you that CAN'T possibly ignore me.......feel free to prove me wrong.*


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Dec 21, 2009)

*Fucking incredible!*

A *mod* tells you to take it private and you go to *another* thread to do some more bitching and sucking around for sympathy rep.


OregonMeds said:


> Cough cough choke cough. Ok, used to be that way...


 There's no mystery as to what you're choking on. 


OregonMeds said:


> edited:
> 
> I don't want to flame things up again, suffice to say we didn't get along all the sudden and I learned how he could get a bit out of control.


*Mommy!* JohnnyO is being mean to me!








OregonMeds said:


> Thanks
> 
> The negative reps I could care less about, it was that the fight never seemed to end like it should have.
> 
> Man has a very unhappy life I think atm.


Save the insight for group therapy, Brokedick.


OregonMeds said:


> I don't get it either, but I'm still too pissed to talk in a pm. Maybe some day.


Like you were doing *all day* Sunday. 

PM me again and I tell your boyfriend.


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 21, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> Did I receive my good reps for being an "atheist a/hole" too? I know you've not seen me post comments that would make you inclined to refer to me as such... atheist yes, but "a/hole" no. Or does one label automatically accompany the other?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 21, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Babs if you are saying what I think you are saying (not that cracker is whatever but maybe that you understand hippie) can you decode hippie and you "get it" ?
> 
> Please you would be loved by the whole forum if you would just follow around from time to time and translate.
> 
> please


* In all fairness, it is my opinion that Hippie is merely playing a CJ.*
*I'm also betting he/she writes poetry.*


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## OregonMeds (Dec 21, 2009)

Ok thought so, I just wasn't sure if you thought you found meaning in the babble. She went full on troll though, cracker is just opinionated and bull headed like a few of us around here.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 21, 2009)

*this existence was here forever before me, and will be here forever after me &#8800; this existence, has no meaning

We Believe The First Half Of The Equation.
How Can A Secularist Believe In God?
Our Meaning Excites Us.
What Is Your Meaning?
What's Left When You're Vaporized?


*


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## PadawanBater (Dec 21, 2009)

Babs, you are making claims that you can't back up. I'm not a rep whore, I couldn't give a damn less about rep, but it actually does serve a purpose, see... People give you rep when you make a post they approve of. Look at my rep, then look at your rep, shouldn't that tell you something? You said I "irritate the crap out of many while doing so" - but it seems like you're the one who is irritating people by the things you post. It irritates me when you simply can't grasp a point. It irritates me when you get offended by something as meaningless as a random person from across cyberspace calling you an explicit word or name. It irritates me that you believe what you want to believe, hear what you want to hear, and will never change an opinion because you can't accept when you might be wrong about something. It's the way you were raised. I was raised the same way, then I grew up and out of that and realized that it's OK to be wrong about shit, because guess what, that's life, that's why there are erasers on pencils, people make mistakes, everyone does. I'm wrong about tons of shit on a daily basis, but guess what, the next time I try doing it, I'll be less wrong, and more right, which is the goal, progress. A word synonymous with screetches on a chalkboard to die hard conservatives. They hate progress. I get it, like I said before, transition is iffy... you could possibly fail, but I'm tired of looking at a system that's already failed and being content riding it all the way down, hoping someone will catch me. To me, that's the much more unsettling part, not knowing (but actually having a pretty damn good idea of, as stated earlier about how fucking ridiculously stupid our foreign policies have been the past 50 years) if someones going to be there when we fall. 

Fanatical Christianity doesn't belong in the public sector in the Unites States. Keep your cult shit in your own home away from me please. Thanks.
I was civil in the beginning, go back and check for yourself. I always give everyone the chance. But then you started taking things past civil, into the ignorantly content, that's when it got ugly. 

But there's nothing in this post that you should be offended by, no personal attacks, hardly any bad words... Though I still suspect you'll come back with something hostile...


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 21, 2009)

*Do You Believe In Universe Man?

What Do The Mod Gods Approve Of?

Do They Give A Shit?

Can God be . . . A Penguin making up the Vast new rules for the Cannabis Church ??????????

where was Alice last seen following the white rabbit with the correct time or was she is the riverbank? * 

Hippie Tip To The Mods:

Please Delete Only This Post, Not The Entire Thread,

Thank You.

- A Particle Person

Snap

No God Particle.
Just Particle Man.
Can Triangle Man = Army Man?


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 21, 2009)

Babs is hopeless. Her posts hurt my eyes. It's like watching a fight 2 rounds after it should have been called.

She's TKO'd but keeps swinging wild.


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## doc111 (Dec 21, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> *this existence was here forever before me, and will be here forever after me &#8800; this existence, has no meaning*
> 
> *We Believe The First Half Of The Equation.*
> *How Can A Secularist Believe In God?*
> ...


 Perception IS reality.


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## Imaulle (Dec 21, 2009)

I think my problem is I isolate myself too much. so I get really depressed and too negative


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## Imaulle (Dec 21, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "I get really depressed and too negative"
> 
> *We Believe That Results From Existing In A Negative Spectral Spiral.
> 
> ...


what does that mean?


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## OregonMeds (Dec 21, 2009)

I went to look for Babs's feedback after what padawan said earlier, and ran across this on her stats:


Points needed: 666


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## CrackerJax (Dec 21, 2009)

Imaulle said:


> I think my problem is I isolate myself too much. so I get really depressed and too negative


Okay, u've taken the first step and recognized a problem. Most ppl can't take solitary life, so ur "normal".

Now, U must ask, why do you isolate urself? Sometimes you must find the trust in urself, before U can find it in others.

That may be wide of the mark, but contemplate upon ur condition, and what you want out of life. You can start over, as many times as U wish to. There are no rules there, it's ur life. 


OM ... 666 ... funny!!


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## growwwww (Dec 21, 2009)

If you anyone has a negative mindset, try being healthy physically, getting sleep, filling time with hobbies like Yoga, martial arts...Have an objective, stick to it thick and thin!!!


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## CrackerJax (Dec 21, 2009)

watch some of those shows about Gotti's daughter and her kids. then U'll know ur living in clover, no matter what.


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## growwwww (Dec 21, 2009)

Nah fucking watch walking life!!! and listen to terence mckenna, read aldous huxleys book, check up on douglas adams, those 3 chaps make life worth it!!!!


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## CrackerJax (Dec 21, 2009)

The whole country is depressed right now.

If U didn't vote for Obama ... ur depressed.

If U did vote for Obama .... ur depressed ...


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## Imaulle (Dec 21, 2009)

I've been this way since I was like 14 (25 now) lol. I've tried to unisolate myself, but it all just seems pointless to me. maybe I need to see a doctor and get some anti depression meds lol. I dono. I'm not suicidal at all, I just don't care to do anything with my life.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 21, 2009)

Johnnyorganic said:


> *Fucking incredible!*
> 
> A *mod* tells you to take it private and you go to *another* thread to do some more bitching and sucking around for sympathy rep.
> 
> ...


It's always everyone elses fault, keep telling yourself that it's a good life strategy.

I like the childish pics and name calling, that's my fault too I'm sure, I must have driven you into immaturity.

BTW no mod told me to do anything, he suggested I work things out with you via pm. There is a difference.

Just for the record though, I shouldn't have said anything at all sunday publicly you are correct, that was childish of me. I should have just let you play out your bad feedback game and ignored you and never said another word. Unfortunately for us both we are equally as stubborn. I want to be known as the McCoy's and you can be the Hatfield's ok because I'm half Irish. The other half Italian or asshole whatever you prefer.


Ok go ahead with your wrath, whatcha got? Might I suggest a homophobic reference again, you could play it off the Irish/Italian asshole line.


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 21, 2009)

Imaulle said:


> I've been this way since I was like 14 (25 now) lol. I've tried to unisolate myself, but it all just seems pointless to me. maybe I need to see a doctor and get some anti depression meds lol. I dono. I'm not suicidal at all, I just don't care to do anything with my life.


I would suggest looking deep into philosophy and pick up some stuff by Carl Sagan or Richard Dawkins. 

It's finding things to appreciate that make life worth living. Everyone faces this same problem at some time in their life, except it's the religious that replace the reality of existence because it's scary to think about with a cushy warm feeling they get at the pit of their stomach when they think they communicate with their imaginary friend. 

Hold your head high, you embrace reality as it is, not as you want it to be.


----------



## growwwww (Dec 21, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> I would suggest looking deep into philosophy and pick up some stuff by Carl Sagan or Richard Dawkins.
> 
> It's finding things to appreciate that make life worth living. Everyone faces this same problem at some time in their life, except it's the religious that replace the reality of existence because it's scary to think about with a cushy warm feeling they get at the pit of their stomach when they think they communicate with their imaginary friend.
> 
> Hold your head high, you embrace reality as it is, not as you want it to be.


Respect, do this.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 21, 2009)

"I've tried to unisolate myself, but it all just seems pointless to me. maybe I need to see a doctor and get some anti depression meds"
*
Perhaps** My Young Friend, A Point Could Prove Ponderous.

Just Ask A Particle Man.

[youtube]FBnSWJHawQQ[/youtube]
*


----------



## growwwww (Dec 21, 2009)

WH what the fuck are you going on about??? So obviously american


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## OregonMeds (Dec 21, 2009)

Even we don't count hippies as americans. We have them beaten with knightsticks when possible or at least lock them up at every chance. 

(I love actual hippies though don't get me wrong, just better if they don't troll.)


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 21, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/262154-does-everyone-know-how-much.html#post3302522
Knowing The Rules Is Good.
LARDASS
CrackerJax* And His Mod Gods Are Making Me Feel Very, Very Uncomfortable.
They Have Not Responded To A Riddle.
What Does That Mean?
I Can Only Dream.
* I Will Show You Mine, If You Show Me Yours, Kind Sir. 

*This makes IT different.*


----------



## growwwww (Dec 21, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Even we don't count hippies as americans. We have them beaten with knightsticks when possible or at least lock them up at every chance.
> 
> (I love actual hippies though don't get me wrong, just better if they don't troll.)


Haha funny, same i love hippie, what does it mean to troll??


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 21, 2009)

Wow we have action in the thread and drama unfolding on a few levels. Cool. tttt
*Troll (Internet)*

*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*

Jump to: navigation, search

"Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation _DNFTT_ redirect here. For the Wikimedia essay, see "What is a troll?".
In Internet slang, a *troll* is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]








It's hard not to fit that description in a flaming war type athiest thread or even tote and talk in general but hippie blathered so much so often making zero sense so maybe it seemed to fit more than all the rest of us.


I think Cracker is a republican... I know that's not what the argument is about, but historically republicans really hate hippes. Co-incidence?


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## doc111 (Dec 21, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Wow we have action in the thread and drama unfolding on a few levels. Cool. tttt
> *Troll (Internet)*
> 
> *From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> ...


The Hippie is causing no trouble that I have seen. What is a weed forum without a far out Hippie?


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## CrackerJax (Dec 21, 2009)

Imaulle said:


> I've been this way since I was like 14 (25 now) lol. I've tried to unisolate myself, but it all just seems pointless to me. maybe I need to see a doctor and get some anti depression meds lol. I dono. I'm not suicidal at all, I just don't care to do anything with my life.


And when did you start smoking weed? 

Seriously, Paddy gives some good advice, but I'll throw in another possibility.

You said 14, which is a time of puberty and many hormonal/testosterone changes.

It's possible you need an adjustment. You may be out of balance. Today, that's easily adjusted.

Something to ponder.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 21, 2009)

Imaulle said:


> I've been this way since I was like 14 (25 now) lol. I've tried to unisolate myself, but it all just seems pointless to me. maybe I need to see a doctor and get some anti depression meds lol. I dono. I'm not suicidal at all, I just don't care to do anything with my life.


That's chronic depression personified. Suicidal thoughts don't need to be involved at all and usually aren't.

If you smoke pot all the time, don't eat very balanced (extra balanced meals) to compensate, and force yourself to be active you may have just fallen into a habit which is pulling you down hormonally and therefore mentally, all the advice people gave leading to that conclusion is right.

Also, if you started smoking regularly that young and still do I hate to suggest it but it may be time to stop any drug, let your body level out and see where you are at. If you can, I guess it depends on if you need the pot medicinally or face worse problems physically or something.

You may have a very simple easily treatable thing like social anxiety disorder who knows, I'm sure if you try without drugs for a while you'll know but you would have to stay off long enough to get past the initial grumpyness etc. There will be real mental effects while your body adjusts, again, but they're very minor and easy to manage.

Weed isn't physically addictive, but mental addiction is just as strong a thing in some especially if you are using it to offset social anxiety or anything else in your past without even realizing it.

Anti depression meds are much much harder to get right for people than other things I think anyway and trying to find the right one and the right dose may be a whole lot easier without pot in the way than with. Also antidepressants should be a last resort, but if you've let it go this long it's probably past time to try whatever you're willing to try in the best order you can manage if you want to actually get anywhere different from where you've always been.

One trip to the right doctor and they can test your homone levels, thyroid, testosterone, estrogen, blood cell count, potassium levels and on and on and everything else that commonly does this type of thing. 

Just my 2 cents anyway.


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## alexuk (Dec 21, 2009)

agree with your thread 100%


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## Imaulle (Dec 21, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> It's finding things to appreciate that make life worth living. Everyone faces this same problem at some time in their life, except it's the religious that replace the reality of existence because it's scary to think about with a cushy warm feeling they get at the pit of their stomach when they think they communicate with their imaginary friend.
> 
> Hold your head high, you embrace reality as it is, not as you want it to be.


thanks for this 

@OregonMeds

I don't actually smoke weed lol. just grow it for a little extra money on the side... I've smoked it maybe 4 times in my entire life. 

I did do ecstasy 5 times (one pill each time) over a 2 year period ending a year or so ago. but I took all the right precautions with taking a lot of vitamin C before and after. In the last year I've pretty much been drug free. I only drink maybe one night every 2 months. other then that I lead a pretty clean life ;\

I do live off of fast food and I'm constantly eating out, so I probably do need to change my diet up a bit...


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## OregonMeds (Dec 21, 2009)

Ok then you need to start smoking pot.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 21, 2009)

Diet can have a profound effect on you in many ways.

Start cooking for urself, U'd be surprised how rewarding that can be.


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## Imaulle (Dec 21, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Ok then you need to start smoking pot.


I dono.. I always felt it would make me even less motivated, and more depressed lol


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## OregonMeds (Dec 21, 2009)

It was just a joke originally, but there's one way you could find out if it could help. Since you can grow any strain you want, you could try some good up sativa that can get people up and doing things if used right or laughing at life a bit more maybe. No abuse problem means it can't hurt to try. I'd check everything else out but antidepressants first though. If your hormones or anything is as far off as it might be, just changing your diet often isn't enough to make up what's been lacking so long.

There are as many people using it as effective medicine to their benefit as there are abusing it to their detriment.


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## Babs34 (Dec 21, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Ok thought so, I just wasn't sure if you thought you found meaning in the babble. She went full on troll though, cracker is just opinionated and bull headed like a few of us around here.


 
*this existence was here forever before me, and will be here forever after me &#8800; this existence, has no meaning

We Believe The First Half Of The Equation.
How Can A Secularist Believe In God?
Our Meaning Excites Us.
What Is Your Meaning?
What's Left When You're Vaporized?*


*This makes sense and for those of you where it does not...dig deeper---if possible. *


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## Babs34 (Dec 21, 2009)

doc111 said:


> The Hippie is causing no trouble that I have seen. What is a weed forum without a far out Hippie?


Amen


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## Babs34 (Dec 21, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> I went to look for Babs's feedback after what padawan said earlier, and ran across this on her stats:
> 
> 
> Points needed: 666


 *.....and the meaning and substance here is exactly what? *

*Dear God, all of this "substance" has again overwhelmed me (rather bored me to tears) I'll read P's post later...much later.*
*Yours too CJ.......I just KNEW you couldn't ignore me. *
*Bring on the substance babe!*
*LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL...not giving a single ounce of it even a read tonight.*


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## PadawanBater (Dec 22, 2009)

Step 1: 
1) History written ahead of time is proof of God. It also creates the foundation for true prohecy. Which must be viewed by evident historical records and fulfilment.

Are you taking the Old Testament litterally or not? I hold that no "prophecy" has ever been fulfilled. How are we to know the "prophecy" wasn't written after the event? How are we to know someone didn't simply write something down, call it a "prophecy", then future generations of people tried to fulfill said prophecy, so then they actively accomplished goals in line with fulfilling the "prophecy", and it "came true". I don't see anything significant in that course of events. Nothing miraculous at all. 
 
Give me one example of a prophecy coming true in the Bible. (in as much detail as possible)


2) Anthropology Science (study of humanity and social cultures) confirms facts written in the history and manuscripts throughout time. 

Which facts?
 

3) Regarding the Bible;
a) Ancient history supports the Bible's accuracy.

What ancient history? 

b) The Gospels provide reliable accounts of Jesus as well as countless other documents of the day. There is actually more recorded proof of the life of Christ than that Julius Ceaser ever even exsisted. 

Really common talking point I hear all the time. This is infact totally untrue. Show me some proof of Jesus' existence if there's such a vast amount to choose from.
 

c) Archaeology Science backs up Biblical accounts. They are being uncovered each and every year.

What archaeology science? Like the shroud of Turin? -carbon dated to the middle ages... first signs of life? - dated to 3.8 billion years old... first plants @ 700 million years old, first "bodies" @ 600 million years old... fish to land dwelling creature transition? - dated to 400-385 million years ago... first dinosaurs? - dated to 150 million years old... first mammals? - dated to 100 million years old... first homo sapiens? - dated to 100,000 years old... You sure all that lines up with "biblical accounts"?
 

d) Textual scholarship confirms the Bible. 

...What textual scholarship?
 

e) The Bible is true to it's original form because:
.1)we have such a hugh number of MSS copies, over 24,000.

Irrelevant. Appeal to authority. 
 

.2) these copies agree with each other 99.5%.

Irrelevant. 
 

.3) The Bible's textual integrity is more certain than that of Plato's writtings and Homer's Illad.

Opinion. 
 

f) History written ahead of time is proof the Bible is not a product of man.

Again with the "prophecies"... Was Nostradamus not a man? If the Bible is not a product of man, are you making the claim that it is the direct word of God? If that's the case, you must also hold that it is therefore perfect. Is this the case?
 

g) In contrast, the book of mormon: archaeology has repeatedly failed to substantiate the book's claims of cities, persons,names or places mentioned.

Agreed, Mormonism is just as diluted as all the other man-made religions.
 

h) From a historical and legal perpective, if enough eyewitnesses are alive when the the facts are published, it's can be fairly well established the vaidity of a secular event. (see 1 Cor 15.6)

ROFL! Uhh... no, actually it does not work that way. Science doesn't give a fuck how history or law works. Science has it's own rules, and it's own laws. I'm supposed to depend on a TWENTY CENTURY OLD GAME OF TELEPHONE?!? It's stuff like that why I think to believe something like that you *must be retarded.* 
 

i) Anthropology Science (study of humanity and social cultures) confirms the Bible.

refer to 3c

Complexity, order and information point to the existence of God. The geological features we see today verify the claim that there was a world-wide flood. The fulfilled prophecies validate the claim that the Bible is the Word of God.

Holy cow! You're making the claim that *there was a worldwide flood?!* Oh man! K, where did all the water come from, and where did it go? The Bible says it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. Is that how the water got there? Are you actually saying the story of Noah and the Arc is litterally true? That a 500 year old man build a 450' long ship, stocked it with two "kinds" of every animal, and survived the worldwide flood that God himself created to destroy *all of mankind and animalkind?* 

An eternal God is the only plausible idea. If God is eternal, then He was not created. If God doesn't exist, you have a serious infinite regression problem.

Since you can't possibly show that something is "eternal" in any sense of the word, how do you expect me to believe it when you say "my God is eternal"? Explain that to me. You must believe, based on faith, that your God is eternal because the Bible says he is. 

I don't have any problem, I'm not saying I know exactly how the universe got here or exactly where we're going or if we have any other place in existence other than here on earth. I'm along for the ride whether I like it or not, and I refuse to be blinded by meaningless illogical things that couldn't possibly exist in any rational kind of existence. 

Think before claiming there is no proof. There are no valid arguments for the claim that atheism is true, so carefully consider your position. You can be an atheist if you wish, but you have to accept that position in spite of the lack of logic and evidence. That leaves you with no room to criticize beliefs that can be defended with logic and science.

There isn't one shred of tangible proof or evidence of any kind of the existence of any gods. Atheism isn't a belief, it's the rejection of a belief. You cannot honestly defend religion. You have to either choose to remain religious, or remain honest. The two are mutually exclusive. 

So you are asking me to prove the God I believe (God of the Bible) without the Bible right? and not why I believe in God (as in general)? 

Why not both? Prove God exists, the god you believe in, without the Bible, and tell me why you believe in it.

Okay according to the "Cosmological Argument", everything that has a beginning has a cause, and therefore created. Science has stated that Universe begun during the Big Bang and therefore it is created. 

[youtube]EiQbSBAWtw0[/youtube]

Time, according to physics also has a beginning, therefore it must have cause, and therefore it is created. So basically we can say, God created these things. And therefore you'd like to conclude, then God must also have been created, right? 

Dude...wtf? "So basically we can say, God created these things." <-- HUH?! You might be able to just go ahead and do that, and that's the problem. That's not how reality works. 

But Science cannot prove that God has a beginning, just like you cannot prove God's existence. If you take this statement as invalid, then your statement that says God does not exist will also not be valid. 
If you take my statement as maybe valid, then your side of the argument will also be maybe valid, but both of them cannot be true inclusive of each other, right? 

Basically the argument being presented is; "science says time and space had a beginning, and everything inside time and space was created, and God is outside time and space, so that means he wasn't created and did not have a beginning, he is eternal - but science can't prove that either, so we're both equally as correct in saying God exists and God does not exist."... 
 
-you can't measure anything outside of time/space, so it is illogical to claim anything exists outside of it

-even if you could, how would you then conclude that anything outside time/space must not have been created? Why? Couldn't it have been created, or been born or whatever elsewhere in some other universe perhaps? Why not? Only things that reside within our own universe are subject to "creation"? What the hell kind of ignorant ass position is that to hold?? 

Okay. According to the Mathematical Argument, 

the chance of the Big Bang x the chance of the 4 dimensions as our dimensions x the chance of our Law of Physics being in place of infinite number of other kinds of Law of Physics x the chance of the Earth being a habitable planet x the chance of intelligent life on this particular planet = 1/1x10^infinity, which if calculated with the limits method will equal to 0. 

Therefore, by Mathematics, there is no chance that all these things happens by chance. 

...right, the Drake equation. I'm very familiar with it. Carl Sagan talks about this shit during Cosmos. 
 
[youtube]MlikCebQSlY[/youtube]

Learn from the mothafucking master of knowledge himself. 

All possibilities = all probabilities. Life is inevitable. 

Everything has to be in the right conditions to be in working and functioning as it is right now. Therefore, by these two arguments and many others (Do you really want me to elaborate on that?), there must be an intelligent design, that is a god or gods.

Nope. I've already explained that there are natural explinations for everything you experience.
 

you must be a very sad person. God has shown himself to me several times in my life. when my 3 daughters were born, when my father past away, and when i went through a very ugly divorce. very clearly revealed, no mistaken it. i dont attend church anymore, but have always believed and had comunicatilon with him in the above instances.

simply amazing things took place in my life. 

OK, it shouldn't be that hard to explain it to me then right? 3 times?! That's amazing! You must have remembered every detail, am I right? Why be so vague about it? Explain to me what happened at each of those instances, and why you believe it was God. I would really appreciate that.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 22, 2009)

"I hold that no "prophecy" has ever been fulfilled."
You've reading to do outside of the Bible, young padawan.
Do Believe IT is possible for prophets to exist?


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## PadawanBater (Dec 22, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "I hold that no "prophecy" has ever been fulfilled."
> 
> You've reading to do outside of the Bible, young padawan.
> 
> Do Believe IT is possible for prophets to exist?


 
Nope. Prophecy is a myth.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 22, 2009)

Please then, provide an example of a non modern religious prophet you equate with Myth, Padawan.
We advise thinking carefully before responding, (I can think off hand of at least a half dozen reasons why I just wrote that)
 perhaps pondering who else could possibly be capable of receiving Humansity's radiatemanations just exactly the same way IT is done on Earth.
We promise to stay out of the realm of belief, and remain solidly in the secular scientist world for this particular discussion.*
*


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## CrackerJax (Dec 22, 2009)

38 pages in and she can't find the substance...... 

Comprehension is a key problem evidently.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 22, 2009)

Babs it's wonderful you chose what you chose.

Please note this is all real, I didn't make up the words I call attention to, or anything of the sort.

Please also keep in mind that only priests could look upon the bible or in fact any holy items, they had to be covered from the view of the general public. There is good reason, lets see why:




Passage results: 
*1 Corinthians 15 (Young's ***Literal*** Translation)*

1And I make known to you, brethren, the good news that I proclaimed to you, which also ye did receive, in which also ye have stood, 
2through which also ye are being saved, in what words I proclaimed good news to you, if ye hold fast, except ye did believe in vain, 
3for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive


Not view, not saw, not witness same word used to describe those that only heard it.




, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings


(That's right folks, it says according to the writings originally, not anything else, not even pretending to be anything else.)



4and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, ******according to the Writings,********

(yes it says according to the writings originally)


5and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve, 
6afterwards he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain till now, and certain also did fall asleep; 
7afterwards he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 
8And last of all -- as to the untimely birth -- he appeared also to me, 

 (yes he flat out admits and says "except for the whole untimely birth thing", that really sucks it was so untimely the dude wasn't around to see it he says) (If the birth was so untimely that it was important enough to write down a disclaimer you know it was really really untimely. So untimely he wasn't around when anyone who supposedly saw it were alive at all so scratch that idea nothing first hand at all left.)






9for I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I did persecute the assembly of God, 
10and by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace that [is] towards me came not in vain, but more abundantly than they all did I labour, yet not I, but the grace of God that [is] with me; 
11whether, then, I or they, so we preach, and so ye did believe. 



(Yep those are the original words, not very firm on that, whoever said it or saw it or said they saw it we will preach it as the truth so you will believe it.)
 


12And if Christ is preached, that out of the dead he hath risen, how say certain among you, that there is no rising again of dead persons? 
13and if there be no rising again of dead persons, neither hath Christ risen; 
14and if Christ hath not risen, then void [is] our preaching, and void also your faith, 



(We knew that.)



15and we also are found false witnesses of God, because we did testify of God that He raised up the Christ, whom He did not raise if then dead persons do not rise; 
16for if dead persons do not rise, neither hath Christ risen, 
17and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins; 
18then, also, those having fallen asleep in Christ did perish; 
19if in this life we have hope in Christ only, of all men we are most to be pitied.


20And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruits of those sleeping he became, 
21for since through man [is] the death, also through man



(not christ not god yes he said through man)


[is] a rising again of the dead, 



(Lets repeat that again, shall we, through man is a rising of the dead)
 

22for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, 
23and each in his proper order,

(yes he specified the order of birth and death that is a correct prophecy but he also is saying it doesn't happen the other way around)




a first-fruit Christ, 


(Yep it gets even better, not just one)



afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence, 


(No not just a "second coming crist" a bunch of em, holy shit!)



24then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power -- 
25for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --

(God loves whooping ass)


26the last enemy is done away 



(I mean killing people, sorry, not just whooping ass.)



-- death; 
27for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him, 
28and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, 

(BOW BEFORE ME I AM MASTER OF YOU LIKE SLAVES)


that God may be the all in all. 
29Seeing what shall they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? why also are they baptized for the dead? 
30why also do we stand in peril every hour? 
31Every day do I die, by the glorying of you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord: 
32if after the manner of a man with wild beasts I fought in Ephesus, what the advantage to me if the dead do not rise?

(Tells priests to lie, so you won't be killed by the invaders, people won't die for stories. Your people will at some point have to die for you and you better make them believe it's for a damn good reason)



let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die! 

(Tells priests lying works, see!)

33Be not led astray; evil communications corrupt good manners; 
34awake up, as is right, and sin not; for certain have an ignorance of God; for shame to you I say [it]. 
35But some one will say, `How do the dead rise? 
36unwise! 


(Tells priests to warn people that it's unwise to question the resurrection story)


thou -- what thou dost sow is not quickened except it may die; 


(Or you will be killed)

37and that which thou dost sow, not the body that shall be dost thou sow, but bare grain, it may be of wheat, or of some one of the others, 
38and God doth give to it a body according as He willed, and to each of the seeds its proper body. 
39All flesh [is] not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fishes, and another of birds; 
40and [there are] heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one [is] the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly; 
41one glory of sun, and another glory of moon, and another glory of stars, for star from star doth differ in glory. 
42So also [is] the rising again of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption; 
43it is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 


(Not just to lie, and how to lie, but when it's most important to really really sell the lie hard as if you didn't get it the first time.)



44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body; 
45so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam [is] for a life-giving spirit, 
46but that which is spiritual [is] not first, but that which [was] natural, afterwards that which [is] spiritual. 
47The first man [is] out of the earth, earthy;




the second man [is] the Lord out of heaven; 


(Holy fuck the first wasnt and they say so!!!!!!!!)
48as [is] the earthy, such [are] also the earthy; and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] also the heavenly; 
49and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly. 
50And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption; 
51lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed; 
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed: 




(They made it so everyone can be ressurrected, because you'll love that. Yes that's right ressurrected)

53for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality; 
54and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; 
55where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?' 
56and the sting of the death [is] the sin, and the power of the sin the law; 
57and to God -- thanks, to Him who is giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ; 
58so that, my brethren beloved, become ye stedfast, unmovable, abounding in the work of the Lord at all times, knowing that your labour is not vain in the Lord.


(Lets tell the priests who are the only ones allowed to view holy items including the bible uncovered to just keep it to ourselves that it's not true even though I just told you outright that it's not true or people won't put much effort into anything for you. Make them believe it really well though and they'll die for you.)



What's especially damning is what's left out in the version you are about to say you believe, after you say you don't believe this one. Just look for the omissions, I'll leave that work to you but you can guess many of them now I'm sure. I know you're also going to say it doesn't mean what I said here or there, ok, then just step back and take it in as a whole and completely forget about my interpretation and stick to the original words themselves.


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 22, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> *Can You Not Believe In Universe Man But Still Believe In Person Man?*
> 
> *This a very serious question.*
> 
> ...


*Throwing stones is the only substance he ever has to offer *
*MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL.....Babs has Christmas shopping to do.*
*:::little time for all this substance:::*


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 22, 2009)

How Dare You Peep Into The Minds And/Or Souls Of Priests Merely To Find Stone Soft Targets And Attempt Non-Understanding Judgment Of What Their Guiding Spirits Convey ?!?
 What Religion Flavor Were Y'all Referring To Anyway?
We Believe Beliefs Refine Into Myths As They Age.


----------



## growwwww (Dec 22, 2009)

priests are cunts, rabbis are cunts, imams are cunts...fuck them all


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 22, 2009)

couldn't we just shave them and call it a day?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 22, 2009)

couldn't we just shave them Camel Toes and call it a Happy Day?
What Flavors Shave?


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 22, 2009)

Hippie asked what religion that was, ok you asked.

That's the sick twisted stuff you find from the cristian bible not from some obscure source but from the very first google hit I got.

On what I guess must be a big resource for the cristians themselves, just they don't read it much or think of it the same or see how close it is to the muslim crap or whatever.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2015&version=YLT


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 22, 2009)

"That's the sick twisted stuff you find from the cristian bible not from some obscure source but from the very first google hit I got."
Then Let's You And I Talk About Something A Little More Anciently Pleasant To The Taste Buds If We Can Detangle Ourselves From The Obscureness That Exists Amongst All This Hateful Chatter Spewing All Over Our Walls As We Meld Minds.
Any Particular  Flavors Of Color In Which Your Mind You Prefer To Discuss?
At What Particular Particle Man Point Do Things Begin If You Do Not Believe In Universe Man?
You Must Be One Of Those Wacko Members Of One Of The Clubs Believing Person Man Evolution Is Possible.* 
*


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## OregonMeds (Dec 22, 2009)

Sure Hippie, after all that the color I see is the blood of the dead that God has planned for every living man, woman, child fetus ahead of time in the creation story. I see red because it spells out genocide and homicide and every kinda cide including planticide and insecticide not as a prediction but as gods premeditated murder plan.

How about you are you just seeing fuzzy sprinkles of sunshine?


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 22, 2009)

I Believe Them's Blue Skies Breaking Through Ahead, My Friend.
Mr. Meds, Can We Please Get Naked?
You Feel Awfully Angry.
Perhaps That Would Put You More At Ease.
Please Don't Forget Mr. Underwear, Only Vampires Truly Sparkle In The Sunshine.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 22, 2009)

Look you're using your words.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm not actually angry at all Hippie I just went with the color thing... I'm actually done smoking and listening to some tunes while having a laugh on the bible so a really good mood actually. But I have to go get some stuff done.

thanks for using those actual real words and sentences.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 22, 2009)

I knew you wouldn't get naked.
 red is such a powerful color.
happy stuffing


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## morgentaler (Dec 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> The whole country is depressed right now.
> 
> If U didn't vote for Obama ... ur depressed.
> 
> If U did vote for Obama .... ur depressed ...


 Would you rather have had McCain and his holy-rolling witch-hunter-loving VP? The economic situation in the US is the culmination of decades of waste, greed, and corruption in politics and I don't think it would have came out all that different whether R or D were in power. But having that Jesus-freak one heart attack away from control of a nuclear arsenal should scare the shit out of anyone that doesn't believe in Space Jesus and the all-you-can-eat Rapture.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 22, 2009)

The economic destruction has been done mostly by the Government, not business. Who regulates whom? 

Now we have an administration that is growing the Government at leaps and bounds and passing every entitlement they can to NON producers.

It's not sustainable, and we are going to crash. It's being set up right now. More is on the way.

Would you voluntarily buy into a health care program that billed you for 4 years before you could join, without a guarantee that the services will be what you expect?

Well my friend, that's exactly the health care ur going to receive. How atrocious is the red tape that it won't kick in for 4 years but everyone must pay ahead? This was the only way to get beyond the CBO audit parameter of 10 years. They are just letting the cement dry around ur feet before you realize ur about to be dumped in a sea of red.

Oh, and Congress exempted themselves, their staff and their families.....other FED jobs will enjoy private, real private health care as well.

Guess who has the mst choice of insurance companies to choose from? Why, the Govt. of course. But that's too good for us, we get socialized medicine while they keep their private.

Would I now vote for McCain? 

YOU BET I WOULD!! If anything it would have given us parity in washington. as it is, we're now under 1 party rule....just like China. Except China can pay their bills and aren't doing a shopping spree on the taxpayers dime.

Remember when it was an economic crisis? 

So, what's the solution from Obama? More Government and taxes...yah that'll work.

Get ready, misery is coming, and it's coming in spades. 

Explain it to ur kids and grandkids when they ask you 20 years from now.


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## jfgordon1 (Dec 22, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Would I now vote for McCain?
> 
> YOU BET I WOULD!! If anything it would have given us parity in washington. as it is, we're now under 1 party rule....just like China. Except China can pay their bills and aren't doing a shopping spree on the taxpayers dime.


I actually agree with this 

No party should rule everything. It cancels out the checks and balances...


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 23, 2009)

*Can You Not Believe In Universe Man But Still Believe In Person Man?
*
This a very serious question.
If You don't understand, please ask a question rather than throwing stones.
I'm wearing leatherized rubber armor for those that can't see through my blouse.


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## growwwww (Dec 23, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> I Believe Them's Blue Skies Breaking Through Ahead, My Friend.
> Mr. Meds, Can We Please Get Naked?
> You Feel Awfully Angry.
> Perhaps That Would Put You More At Ease.
> Please Don't Forget Mr. Underwear, Only Vampires Truly Sparkle In The Sunshine.


why the fuck do you use capital letters for every fucking word...


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 23, 2009)

I don't.
I spell very carefully most of the time in a creative writing playground with very few rules to follow other than those I make up along the way.
All caps and/or all lowercase is hard for me to fuck up. 
How Many Bowls of alphabet soup Can You Pack into your Tupperware?
That can be, at the drop of a hat.


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## growwwww (Dec 23, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> *I don't.
> 
> I spell very carefully most of the time in a creative writing playground with very few rules to follow other than those I make up along the way.
> 
> ...


You are really really cool!


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## doc111 (Dec 23, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> *Can You Not Believe In Universe Man But Still Believe In Person Man?*
> 
> This a very serious question.
> If You don't understand, please ask a question rather than throwing stones.
> I'm wearing leatherized rubber armor for those that can't see through my blouse.


Is that like believing in the evolution of creation?


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## shnkrmn (Dec 23, 2009)

doc111 said:


> Is that like believing in the evolution of creation?


It's possible that Hippie means something more along the lines of this:

In Hinduism, *Purusha* (Sanskrit _puru&#7779;a,_ &#2346;&#2369;&#2352;&#2369;&#2359; "man, Cosmic man", in Sutra literature also called _pu&#7747;s_ "man") is the "self" which pervades the universe. The Vedic divinities are considered to be the human mind's interpretation of the many facets of Purusha. According to the Rigvedic Purusha sukta, Purusha was dismembered by the devas -- his mind is the Moon, his eyes are the Sun, and his breath is the wind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purusha

On the other hand, I'm not sure how anyone can be certain what Hippie thinks


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## growwwww (Dec 23, 2009)

hippie just speaks bullshit im sorry


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## growwwww (Dec 23, 2009)

i dont mean hippies i mean this guy ont he forum lool im kinda a hippy myself


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 23, 2009)

*We Believe Humansity And IT's Religions Evolves.

Re Legion **&#8800; Re Ligion

Do Watchers use Witchcraft?

*is it possible for Irin to exist?

[youtube]b018CzxbKMY[/youtube]


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## growwwww (Dec 23, 2009)

fucking just chat shit so irrelevant you fucking idiot
Religion has evolved, and is evolving!


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## CrackerJax (Dec 23, 2009)

There is an ignore function folks ... sometimes it's for the best.


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## robert 14617 (Dec 23, 2009)

this will be my first christmas with my eyes open ,i've always hated the greed and commercialism of this season , now i can see why the church and macy's need to keep the idea of christ alive , and its the all mighty buck


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## CrackerJax (Dec 23, 2009)

It also happens to be the biggest $$$$$ maker for the church as well. Greed is everywhere.


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## doc111 (Dec 23, 2009)

growwwww said:


> fucking just chat shit so irrelevant you fucking idiot
> Religion has evolved, and is evolving!


Why so angry? Like CJ said, there is an ignore function if you don't like what someone has to say.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 23, 2009)

That's why it's there....


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## growwwww (Dec 24, 2009)

i cant find it lool its cool im not angry its just what the fuck does this guy go on about??/ like its just weird i aint hating no one, coz i dont...apart from religious twats.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 24, 2009)

Not sure where it is myself, I use it so infrequently.


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## morgentaler (Dec 25, 2009)

Oh boy, we're in for it now! Between Christian Hell and Islamic Hell we're in for a grand old time!

[youtube]5UOskXRYrS0[/youtube]


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## PadawanBater (Dec 25, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Oh boy, we're in for it now! Between Christian Hell and Islamic Hell we're in for a grand old time!
> 
> [youtube]5UOskXRYrS0[/youtube]


 
lol, with Babs, Maui, fish, Shroomer, and the rest, we've seen what Christianity can produce... Here's a little taste of what you get with Islam...

...and they dare say religion isn't dangerous...


I'm becoming more frustrated lately... time to smoke.


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## Katatawnic (Dec 25, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> this will be my first christmas with my eyes open ,i've always hated the greed and commercialism of this season , now i can see why the church and macy's need to keep the idea of christ alive , and its the all mighty buck


Not one gift exchanged in my family this year, aside from the little "bud bags" I gave my (adult! lol) sons which I'd have given them anyhow.  Did have a great visit with my family at my mom's last night, but that would've happened whether it was Xmas or not, as yesterday was my mom's return home after *many* months in the hospital and then a nursing home after quite literally knocking on death's door.  Her ability to finally come home was my reason to celebrate yesterday, and much more of a "gift" than anything material could have been to any of us. 



growwwww said:


> i cant find it lool [ignore feature]


Simple.  Go to the user's profile page, then follow the "map" (attached image) I made for Shackleford.R the other day.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 25, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> Not one gift exchanged in my family this year, aside from the little "bud bags" I gave my (adult! lol) sons which I'd have given them anyhow.  Did have a great visit with my family at my mom's last night, but that would've happened whether it was Xmas or not, as yesterday was my mom's return home after *many* months in the hospital and then a nursing home after quite literally knocking on death's door.  Her ability to finally come home was my reason to celebrate yesterday, and much more of a "gift" than anything material could have been to any of us.
> 
> 
> 
> Simple.  Go to the user's profile page, then follow the "map" (attached image) I made for Shackleford.R the other day.


 
Good to hear!!


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## PadawanBater (Dec 26, 2009)

[youtube]hFIAGGQltRE[/youtube]

"the plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live"

"faith, means making a virtue out of not thinking... it's nothing to brag about..."

"This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves, and those who consider themselves only _moderately religious_ really need to look at themselves in the mirror and realize that the solice and the comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price."


I hope someones got a response to this!


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## morgentaler (Dec 26, 2009)

Wow, what a load of insane paranoid bullshit.
There's a few going points in there, buried among so much crap.

Yes, all religion is stupid.
Yes, our politicians server only one thing - profit.
Yes, it's funny that Christians cling to the generic title "God". Are they afraid of using its name?
And then there's the Satanic masters, and the H1N1 vaccine conspiracy, and the coat of arms crap - just to name a few things.

Someone went off their meds and found the internet.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 26, 2009)

We believe in all likelihood, IT is more than one.


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## morgentaler (Dec 26, 2009)

Beware the Voltron believers and their insidious faith!

[youtube]xnbXlkNavwo[/youtube]


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 26, 2009)

theist &#8800; christian

christian is A theist


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## CrackerJax (Dec 26, 2009)

Great vids Paddy and Morgen .... once again, nail is hit by hammer of logic.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 26, 2009)

But nobody is around to hear said nail being hit, their heads are buried in the sand...


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## morgentaler (Dec 26, 2009)

The think about people with their heads buried in the sand. They're oblivious to reason, but they're also oblivious to traffic


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## LuciferKush (Dec 26, 2009)

I am an atheist. I think life is much better with this mindview, but theologians would argue quite the opposite


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 26, 2009)

Think how groovy it could be if everyone could be happy thinking life is much better with their own groovy mindviews.


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## morgentaler (Dec 26, 2009)

Well, there would be no religion, so that's a step in the right direction.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 26, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> But nobody is around to hear said nail being hit, their heads are buried in the sand...


Most of the religious posters are too far gone I admit. The likelyhood of them "awakening" is minimal. 

I post for all those folks who are reading these threads, but NOT posting. 

They deserve to hear the truth and to see the thrashing from the "mythers"

It's instructional.


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## growwwww (Dec 26, 2009)

groovy.....


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## Katatawnic (Dec 26, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> [youtube]hFIAGGQltRE[/youtube]
> 
> "the plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live"
> 
> ...


I don't think I got more than a minute into this video before I had to turn it off... and that was a minute more than I needed to view. All that ranting, screaming, and condemning is just too much for me.


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## sunshine1754 (Dec 26, 2009)

The Lord bless you and keep you; The Lord make His face shine on you, and be gracious to you; The Lord lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace


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## morgentaler (Dec 26, 2009)

Would that be before or after he encourages the genocide of a population, or the rape of teenage girls?
How about encouraging the murder of people for various "morality crimes".

Fuck your "Lord"


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## OregonMeds (Dec 26, 2009)

You left out the most important parts of that quote sunshine.

"Then the Lord spoke to Moses saying, 'Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying, "Thus you shall bless the sons of Israel. You shall say to them: 
The Lord bless you, and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine on you,
And be gracious to you;
The Lord lift up His countenance upon you,
And give you peace."'
So they shall invoke My name on the sons of Israel, and I 
shall bless them."

As much as you would like to steal it's not nice. Besides you just can't steal the lords acceptance can you? He apparently only accepts the "sons of Israel" which you aren't, and we aren't either. It must be very important, they put it in that same passage twice and unlike some things in the bible there's nothing vague about it. 

Some people would think you were intentionally leaving those two parts out just to fulfill your own desire to "fit in".


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## sunshine1754 (Dec 26, 2009)

I am surely Gods child. He loves me very much and I love Him although I don't think I could love Him as much as He does me. God doesn't like to be denied and He surely doesn't like when He is not appreciated.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 26, 2009)

You didn't answer.

Which god do you believe in then? The god of the bible was very specific about who he loved, and who he didn't, and you don't fit in. 

If you accept the bible as the word of god then why are you not listening?

HE DOESN'T ACCEPT YOU PERIOD. It says so in black and white and in no uncertain terms.

Not only that you are guilty of taking your lords words out of context intentionally, that has to be a very big sin. Everyone that has plagiarized the bible and rewritten it and left things out, those people are leading others against gods original word and must be guilty of some of the greatest sins ever. I bet there's a special treatment planned for anyone who's gone against him so blatantly and seriously.

Even questioning or murmuring any form of discontent against the god described in the original old testament, the first word of your god you have, brought plagues and death and gods slashing right hand or something really really bad like being stomped by his foot or having fire reigned down upon you.

What are you going to do?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 27, 2009)

Love Him, just like everyone else has the right to love their own personal god.
We can only change ourselves.
Feet roasting has historically worked very well, Mr. Morgentaler.
Perhaps you could try it when attempting to convert the Christians to your lack of faith.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 27, 2009)

If everyone was just loving their own personal idea of god we wouldn't have a problem with them hippie. It's the organized religions that we have a problem with, where people are misused and mislead and it affects entire nations and the world.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 27, 2009)

That's good to know about your tolerance, Mr. Meds.
Not everyone is blessed with IT.
How is your religious disorganization campaign coming along there, Mr. Underwear?
Is IT bringing you happiness and fulfillment? 
IT seems to us that sunshine merely wished you well (granted, it was in the name of something you do not believe can exist), and in return, you tried to bite her neck like a little old lady in red.
There must be bad blood We are unaware of.
We invite the young preacher boys inside, too.


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## Katatawnic (Dec 27, 2009)

_IT_ was a pretty decent novel, but the movie sucked.


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## growwwww (Dec 27, 2009)

HAHAHAH RELIGION IS THE BIGGEST JOKE!!!
fuck you vicars, suck my balls along with your imaginary friend. My trust friend, logic and intelligence which comes along with questioning is gonna get me further in this world, yes ( the only thing i can partially say is partially real ) than who gives a shit about the next worl you fuckers, just focus on shit now you fucking dickheads you got everyone hyped up about some longhaired hippie from 2000thousand years ago birthday, fuck you you pricks why dont you celebrate my brithday, cunts.


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## sunshine1754 (Dec 27, 2009)

People need God, simple as that.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 27, 2009)

Only the fearful need a made up entity.


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## Imaulle (Dec 27, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> People need God, simple as that.


people need a God because they are weak. if you truly start to think for yourself you'll find the truth: 

There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on earth.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 27, 2009)

We Believe Mystical Animism can be Good.


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## sunshine1754 (Dec 27, 2009)

God is truth


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## sunshine1754 (Dec 27, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Only the fearful need a made up entity.


I fear nothing.


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## sunshine1754 (Dec 27, 2009)

Imaulle said:


> people need a God because they are weak. if you truly start to think for yourself you'll find the truth:
> 
> There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on earth.



It would be nice if people made heaven on earth


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## shnkrmn (Dec 27, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> It would be nice if people made heaven on earth


[youtube]5zNdMc6wGtU[/youtube]


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## CrackerJax (Dec 27, 2009)

That's exactly what will happen (heaven on earth), ... as soon as religion falls away.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 27, 2009)

30 or so minutes of logical pwnage from AronRa, enjoy! (it's all worth watching, but it gets really good in part 2)

[youtube]5rdoI8B2C9g[/youtube]
[youtube]rf7L_jEz3gc[/youtube]
[youtube]Vsu_XBuGBKI[/youtube]

An excellent point made that I'd like a believer to address;

-even if you paid me I could not believe in something I see no evidence for, he touches on it in the beginning of part 2 and explains exactly how belief works. It's not something you're born with, it's not something you "choose". Belief is based on evidence, what you guys have is *faith.*


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> To Tyler Durdens quote from Fight Club puts it in perspective... "it's only when you've lost everything that you're free to do anything".


Some people would call that perfect humility, a goal of a Christian.


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> That's exactly what will happen (heaven on earth), ... as soon as religion falls away.


 
And we have a one world government right? That will just be sooo swell. It will be 7 years of hell on earth.


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## doc111 (Dec 27, 2009)

There is no way to prove one way or the other. There is a god, there isn't a god......what difference does it make? We are all going to die anyway. Maybe we go to heaven, maybe we go to hell. Maybe we just go to sleep and that's it. Who knows for sure? Neither side will ever be able to show Hard Evidence. It's all about faith which is a very abstract concept for humans. You have to believe one or the other. So in summation both sides have Faith that they are correct.


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

The more we trust our own logic and intelligence, the poorer we become. Look up fractional reserve banking this world is poorer than it has ever been. 

Think about it. We have had countless advances in manufacturing and industry...one man can move 40 tons of cargo 500 miles in a day. Does he eat better than the man who moved 1 ton 20 miles 100 years ago? (who ate ORGANIC to boot!)Shouldnt everyone be able to afford a manufactured home for example?

Inflation and Depression steals it from under our feet and gives it to the USURER, or interest collector. Protestants thought they were noble for following Luther, little do they know it is THEY who ushered in interest bearing practices!! The bible states ANY INTEREST BEARED ON MONEY BORROWED IS WRONG. USURY is ANY interest collected! WE CANNOT RELY ON OUR OWN ASTUTENESS.


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

Great. Ask the vatican to release it's funds to the poor.

Start a campaign to take back the millions of dollars your religious leaders collect on TV to pay for hookers and mansions.

Or stuff your hypocrisy where the sun doesn't shine.


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

doc111 said:


> So in summation both sides have Faith that they are correct.


No, one side makes something up and expects everyone else to believe it.

Not believing in their mythology does not require any faith.

Do you have faith in leprechauns and doppelgangers as well? What about Cujo? Spongebob? 

I don't need to have "faith" that Spongebob isn't real.


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

8deez8 said:


> Some people would call that perfect humility, a goal of a Christian.


Then why is the US, with one of the highest Christian per capitas in the world, and a politics dominated by Christian representatives, economically capitalist?

That would seem in complete contradiction to your statement.


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Feet roasting has historically worked very well, Mr. Morgentaler.
> Perhaps you could try it when attempting to convert the Christians to your lack of faith.


I'll stick to attacking their lack of reason, not their flesh.

Let's leave the torture to the torturers and their religious justifications.


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

doc111 said:


> Neither side will ever be able to show Hard Evidence.


This is HARD EVIDENCE >>>

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Bankers.htm

http://www.millenniumprophecy.com

This is my testimony

One day Ithrew in the towel and got on my knees and* sincerely* told God I was helpless, and asked for the help of Jesus. What followed was the most spiritually evidentiary thing that ever happened to me. ABSOlutely personal evidence, something Im sure Ill never be able to relate like it feels, but that's just it, you have to have it in your heart, maybe you humbly feel that you know death is your end, or whatever, when you are DESTITUTE and want atonement, you will have evidence of the Holy Ghost. Laugh it up I know I did I used to poke fun at Christians, and aquaintances would turn to Christ and I'd say "I'm too tough for that shit, they make it up when they're down, I'll always laugh at them." I was a satanic TOOL, and when I came to the Lord I felt so used by Satan, all he wants is to keep us complacent with his fluoride and pharmaceuticals to damn us all. In the bible it says of the last days "because you are neither hot nor cold, but you are lukewarm, Ill shall spit you out of my mouth". Don't go on happy with the status quo, for Christ sake Marijuana is illegal and it isn't getting any better!

Type in "Obama backwards" on youtube see if that shit doesn't scare you


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

If that's your idea of evidence, I have some lead I'd like to sell to you for only 5000 dollars a pound. With my simple alchemical formula you can change it to GOLD and make your money back in seconds!

Why aren't I keeping this formula to myself to profit off of? I want to share this wealth so that all men are equal before Jesus! (See, I use his name to add credibility here. Is it working yet?)

Cash only please, no checks or money orders! Praise Jesus! (BUY BUY BUY!)


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Then why is the US, with one of the highest Christian per capitas in the world, and a politics dominated by Christian representatives, economically capitalist?
> 
> That would seem in complete contradiction to your statement.


I said a goal, no one can achieve it. That is why we need Christ.

And if it weren't for fractional reserve banking I think capitalism could support even the most challenged person very comfortably. It's principles would not be cutthroat like they have become, because for the past 96 years we have had to compete against the rate of inflation/depression to stay afloat.


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> If that's your idea of evidence,


The history of the money changers is many pages long, maybe you should read it first


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

8deez8 said:


> I said a goal, no one can achieve it. That is why we need Christ.
> 
> And if it weren't for fractional reserve banking I think capitalism could support even the most challenged person very comfortably. It's principles would not be cutthroat like they have become, because for the past 96 years we have had to compete against the rate of inflation/depression to stay afloat.


Does Christ have a degree in economics?
It might be a bit out of date.


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

8deez8 said:


> The history of the money changers is many pages long, maybe you should read it first


Let's see. It portrays Jesus's act with the money lenders as a verified historical act, and then babbles on about history without a single citation or bibliography.

No, I'm not going to read any more of that baseless twaddle.

If you are going to try and pass something off as academically accurate, then present something acceptable to an academic environment.

Bibliographies aren't just for show.


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Great. Ask the vatican to release it's funds to the poor.
> 
> Start a campaign to take back the millions of dollars your religious leaders collect on TV to pay for hookers and mansions.


We are living in the last days. Many Christians like myself are aware that folks like George W. Bush have taken secret oaths blaspheming the Holy Spirit for their Skull and Bones initiations, etc... George Bush used to be very well spoken, then he started playing the "dumb Christian" role. He is a FAKE CHRISTIAN, just like Billy Graham. They have blasphemed the Holy Spirit in their initiations, and are sworn against God Almighty.
This is just an example. All high ranking politicians are aware of the REALITY of the secret world governments and are trying to get in line for the sake of their family, etc... Don't be so naive


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

You're ALL fake Christians. That's the nature of religion.


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Let's see. It portrays Jesus's act with the money lenders as a verified historical act, and then babbles on about history without a single citation or bibliography.
> 
> No, I'm not going to read any more of that baseless twaddle.
> 
> ...


There are 14 citations, on the very same page at the bottom--citations that span 100 years in publication dates.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 27, 2009)

> ABSOlutely personal evidence, something Im sure Ill never be able to relate like it feels, but that's just it, you have to have it in your heart.


...notice the pattern.

How do you people not understand that you *cannot base beliefs* off of personal experiences?

How many of you can remember your license plate number or your dl number? - But it's OK to *think *you felt *something* then attribute whatever it was to God, and that's that. That's essentially what your belief comes down to - "I don't know what it was, so I'm going to say it was God"

:golf clap:


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

8deez8 said:


> There are 14 citations, on the very same page at the bottom--citations that span 100 years in publication dates.


Shhhh. I'm making the same bullshit claims you made with Wormwood!


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> That's essentially what your belief comes down to


Nope. I didn't accept Christ until I had spent months researching history, secret world governments and the occult. Then I began to seek a loving God that created pot for me but Who is being stifled more every day. Yes even then I wasn't fully a Christian until I had the "personal experience". I hope you all seek Him and have one as well.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 27, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> That's good to know about your tolerance, Mr. Meds.
> Not everyone is blessed with IT.
> How is your religious disorganization campaign coming along there, Mr. Underwear?
> Is IT bringing you happiness and fulfillment?
> ...


Sunshine knew what she was doing, it wasn't just wishing well. If that's what it was she could have said happy holidays or hi or whatever but it was a bible quote thrown up in an athiest thread.

No hippie I don't get why you don't understand yet, there is no bad blood, I don't even know who sunshine is. For almost the entire history of the major religions we have now questioning them has meant a death sentence, they've gone unchecked, unquestioned, and taken over.

Now that people aren't decapitated, stoned to death, or outcast for speaking out it's time they all do. Maybe in another couple hundred years it will make a difference but I don't expect any now not even from one person. All I hope for is to make the tiniest bit of difference over the long haul.

When people do nothing at all it just lets the thing continue unchecked and given how much worse it's gotten in recent years that's proof we shouldn't just sit by.

I don't do it for fun or because of a chip on my shoulder or because I want to seem cool or smart.

I do this at my own personal cost knowing full well it will never benefit me in any other way than the piece of mind that at least I tried. There is a huge personal cost btw... Alienating yourself from 80% of the population is something that always goes well.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 27, 2009)

I am impressed by your devotion to the ideals in which you believe, and find it quite admirable indeed.

IT is not easy defending your beliefs.

We share many values in common, however time is short and there is much to prepare.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 27, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> ...notice the pattern.
> 
> How do you people not understand that you *cannot base beliefs* off of personal experiences?
> 
> ...


The same reason why anecdotal evidence is not given the same weight in court. It's an OPINION, a LAYMAN'S OPINION, based on nothing but personal feelings.

NEXT!!!!


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## sunshine1754 (Dec 27, 2009)

You guys will never realize God by asking questions all the time. You need to have Him to find Him. You have to follow His laws and do good by Him. I think it's funny that because we live in modern society the idea that God exsits is still questioned. That because we have advanced in science that means that God isn't real. That man is so great he could build this world by himself without the help of God. I see Gods work in everything, this is His world and it's His laws if you don't follow them you won't ever find Him.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 27, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> You guys will never realize God by asking questions all the time. You need to have Him to find Him. You have to follow His laws and do good by Him. I think it's funny that because we live in modern society the idea that God exsits is still questioned. That because we have advanced in science that means that God isn't real. That man is so great he could build this world by himself without the help of God. I see Gods work in everything, this is His world and it's His laws if you don't follow them you won't ever find Him.


Ok now, you are just trolling. If you want to participate in the thread you are more than welcome but you should ***participate*** in the discussion, not just spout whatever pops into your head at random.

I've addressed you personally a couple of times and you still haven't responded. Not once, not to anything. Nor answered any question I asked.

Nobody here is searching for a god, that would be a waste of your very limited lifespan.


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## sunshine1754 (Dec 27, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Ok now, you are just trolling. If you want to participate in the thread you are more than welcome but you should ***participate*** in the discussion, not just spout whatever pops into your head at random.
> 
> I've addressed you personally a couple of times and you still haven't responded. Not once, not to anything. Nor answered any question I asked.
> 
> Nobody here is searching for a god, that would be a waste of your very limited lifespan.


The whole point of life is to return to God. I choose not to answer just as you choose to ignore God.


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## 8deez8 (Dec 27, 2009)

You all claim you want evidence.

If you would even skim through "the history of the money changers" you would realize how gone our world is, how poor and blind mankind is, and how correct Bibilical prophecy is!

All our assassinated presidents were killed by the same bankers who helped benefit DuPont by making cannabis illegal worldwide, as it potentially threatened their economic stranglehold.
edited to add link: http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Bankers.htm


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## OregonMeds (Dec 27, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> The whole point of life is to return to God. I choose not to answer just as you choose to ignore God.


Ok then you ignore me and I'll ignore you, we agree, have a nice day.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 27, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> I am impressed by your devotion to the ideals in which you believe, and find it quite admirable indeed.
> 
> IT is not easy defending your beliefs.
> 
> We share many values in common, however time is short and there is much to prepare.


Time is short and there is much to prepare? Prepare for what?

Here is my version of time is short. This will drop a bomb in this thread if people actually view it.

People have claimed time and time again that Christians today aren't in any way responsible for the evils of yesterday...

If you watch this one documentary start to finish (It's in several parts you need to watch the whole thing.) without freaking out and turning it off, without panicking and thinking I am some lunatic anti jewish guy or whatever, then you will start to understand how important it is we all stand up against the evil power religion holds over us. This is not anti jewish propaganda from some kkk freaks this is actual historically correct data about a religious war going on to this day, enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0248019CAE261C1D&search_query=occupation+101

Save the screaming and ranting and calling people names, it only shows you didn't watch it. I'm no more against Jewish people than I am against Captain Crunch. (Well maybe I love captain crunch more but it tastes so good.)

What you have is everything laid out there about how religions (not just one) but two are corrupted to further some unscrupulous gains and how our government is manipulated by them also.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 27, 2009)

Time has been short for Christians for 2000 years. 

Way to have an accurate religion.....


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> You guys will never realize God by asking questions all the time.


Isn't it funny. The quest for knowledge being anathema to religion.

I'm shocked.


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## morgentaler (Dec 27, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> This is not anti jewish propaganda from some kkk freaks this is actual historically correct data about a religious war going on to this day, enjoy:


It absolutely amazes me that Israelis will stand by and let their Palestinian neighbors be treated in the same way as they were by the Germans in the 1930s, and not realize that they are repeating history.

All of this misery for a pile of useless rock that Judaism and Islam frantically claim is theirs.

At least Christians are happy with any little plot of land they can stick a church on and burn a few books or witches.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 28, 2009)

It shows that the palestinian cristians (the very first people to convert to cristianity folks) are being treated just like the Jews in Nazi Germany except maybe for the crematoriums. 

And furthermore it shows it's the political power of the cristians in the United States (And couldn't happen without that) that has made that unspeakable tretment of original cristians even possible and continuing to this day. And the media in the US is somehow exposed for what it is, how it's controlled. (part of that problem being bible thumpers silencing free speach through every means possible in the misguided thinking they are somehow helping "gods chosen people" to fulfill biblical prophecies in favor of another religious group (not their own) and directly at the expense of I guess the original cristians who they must think aren't "gods chosen people" after all.

That's amazes me... THEY BELIEVE IN JESUS TOO, GO HELP THEM BIBLE QUOTER>>>>>
You won't though, you won't even watch it and even if you did you wouldn't lift a finger to help them I know already. Please explain if you think this is part of gods plan.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 28, 2009)

"At least Christians are happy with any little plot of land they can stick a church on and burn a few books or witches. "
The Christians remaining in Bethlehem would most likely dispute your claim.


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## growwwww (Dec 28, 2009)

sunshine1754 said:


> People need God, simple as that.


Bullshit,

this is a statement that rives my inside...


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## growwwww (Dec 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> It absolutely amazes me that Israelis will stand by and let their Palestinian neighbors be treated in the same way as they were by the Germans in the 1930s, and not realize that they are repeating history.
> 
> All of this misery for a pile of useless rock that Judaism and Islam frantically claim is theirs.
> 
> At least Christians are happy with any little plot of land they can stick a church on and burn a few books or witches.


There all as bad as each other, the christians killed hhundreds of thousands with the crusades etc...

But seriously, in all honesty, i am an athiest, i dont like religion at all. I dont liek racism, sexism and cruelty to humans etc...But to compare whats going on in israel/palestine whatever to the holocaust is a dumb statement, the fact is there inter-muslim conflict going on where millions are being killed, a better thing to describe the whole middle east situation, is juts a fucking disgusting mess.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> It absolutely amazes me that Israelis will stand by and let their Palestinian neighbors be treated in the same way as they were by the Germans in the 1930s, and not realize that they are repeating history.
> 
> All of this misery for a pile of useless rock that Judaism and Islam frantically claim is theirs.
> 
> At least Christians are happy with any little plot of land they can stick a church on and burn a few books or witches.


Actually, it is the Arabs who are mistreating the Palestinians. Palestine has been offered statehood twice now. But the Arabs wish to keep the wedge in place and so deny the Palestinians a homeland.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 28, 2009)

". . . the christians killed hhundreds of thousands with the crusades. . . "

All Christians or A Flavor of A Particular Church for a particularly greenly reason?


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## OregonMeds (Dec 28, 2009)

growwwww said:


> There all as bad as each other, the christians killed hhundreds of thousands with the crusades etc...
> 
> But seriously, in all honesty, i am an athiest, i dont like religion at all. I dont liek racism, sexism and cruelty to humans etc...But to compare whats going on in israel/palestine whatever to the holocaust is a dumb statement, the fact is there inter-muslim conflict going on where millions are being killed, a better thing to describe the whole middle east situation, is juts a fucking disgusting mess.





CrackerJax said:


> Actually, it is the Arabs who are mistreating the Palestinians. Palestine has been offered statehood twice now. But the Arabs wish to keep the wedge in place and so deny the Palestinians a homeland.



You two have it wrong, you should watch the videos, there's much you don't know it shows in what you said. Palestinians were offered pathetically little and the chance to live permanently in two separate prison camps. You are both repeating the propaganda lies we in the west have been fed for a long time.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 28, 2009)

It is the Arabs which kkep the refugee camps in place, not Israel. Statehood is exactly that ... statehood. it's been offered twice and rejected twice.

Translation - middleground has been offered and rejected. The palestinians are the pawns of the Arabs and they like it this way. One of the reasons why Egypt has sealed its borders to Palestinians. The other reason is they want no more direct involvement in the affair, which on some level is the most reasoned response in that area.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 28, 2009)

Cracker watch the video if you want to know the truth. You are just spouting more propaganda again, none of it is true. We have all been lied too and are still being lied too.

If you want to know the truth just a little research will show it to you.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 28, 2009)

And that is that.

Is it sunny in Atheist happyland today?


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## morgentaler (Dec 28, 2009)

growwwww said:


> ..But to compare whats going on in israel/palestine whatever to the holocaust is a dumb statement, the fact is there inter-muslim conflict going on where millions are being killed, a better thing to describe the whole middle east situation, is juts a fucking disgusting mess.


I didn't. You should read what I said. I referred to the 30s.

That was when the relocations and property seizures were occuring. That's what's happening there right now.

Whether there is a political or religious conflict there or not, it is not justifiable for them to move in and force people out of their homes as the settlement lines are pushed forward.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't know hippie but I have reggae playing and it feels sunny inside under fake lights.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm not an atheist, but it's Real sun today and

[youtube]Gy6cqFIljQo[/youtube]


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## morgentaler (Dec 28, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "At least Christians are happy with any little plot of land they can stick a church on and burn a few books or witches. "
> The Christians remaining in Bethlehem would most likely dispute your claim.


Your point is noted, but they're a very small portion of the overall religion. 

When Islam and Judaism both claim the same piece of rock as theirs, only theirs, and then spend two thousand years condemning each other for it on a religion wide basis, it's a bit more extreme 

Christianity is generally more focused on telling people they're going to burn in hell for not worshipping their loving god, than they are focused on real estate.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 28, 2009)

"Christianity is generally more focused on telling people they're going to burn in hell for not worshipping their loving god, than they are focused on real estate"
Who owns enough real estate they can focus on telling people they're going to burn in hell for not worshiping their loving god?
Dream of living outside right next to a concrete wall of "dire necessity" in dire times.
We had no idea until we watched that NatGeo episode.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 28, 2009)

[youtube]ZFeEumPAF0s[/youtube]
[youtube]oux62TNUT_U&annotation_id=annotation_202108&feature=iv[/youtube]

Pwned.


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## morgentaler (Dec 28, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Who owns enough real estate they can focus on telling people they're going to burn in hell for not worshiping their loving god?
> 
> Try living outside next to a concrete wall of dire necessity in dire times.
> 
> We had no idea until we watched that NatGeo episode.


You're still not getting what I said.

If you go up to 100 Christians today and say "What do you think about the Christian situation in the middle east and bethlehem in particular?" most of them will have no idea what you're talking about. Very similar to if you ask them why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. They have no idea, but they'll pretend to know.

Ask a Muslim or Jew about their holy rock pile and they'll certainly have opinions on it.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 28, 2009)

You're Right.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 28, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> You're Right.


So then where's the logic in claiming the moral high ground because of someones belief in something?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 28, 2009)

"So then where's the logic in claiming the moral high ground because of someones belief in something?"

Huh?


----------



## doc111 (Dec 28, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> So then where's the logic in claiming the moral high ground because of someones belief in something?


Who says there is logic in human nature? Claiming a piece of land in the name of Something has been going on since the first human stood erect and clubbed another human over the head for a piece of meat.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 28, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "So then where's the logic in claiming the moral high ground because of someones belief in something?"
> 
> Huh?


Pat Robertson and the like, almost everyone you ever come across who believes in a god claims those who don't can't be moral, because the way they see it, they have nobody to be held accountable to but themselves, and they know how easy it is to simply say to oneself "fuck it, if I don't get caught, who cares?" -except there's one thing they don't understand about being an atheist.... We *are *accountable. To ourselves. Which really illustrates the profound irony in that it's actually *disbelief* that keeps one moral. One of my favorite bits of understanding from one of the greatest minds to ever live;

*The Socratic Paradox*

Although Socrates himself never claimed to have knowledge, he does appear to have held certain positive doctrines. Principal among these is the Socratic paradox, that no one willingly chooses to act immorally. On the face of it this appears clearly false. After all, there are all kinds of action one recognizes as wrong but which one may choose to perform if one judges that they will bring benefit to oneself. For example, someone may choose to lie, cheat, or steal if they believe they can get away with it and gain some advantage. Socrates, however, held that this betrays some confused thinking. *For in acting immorally they actually harm their own character far more than they harm their victim.* While they may succeed in stripping others of material possessions and other trappings of worldly accompishment, *genuine human happiness is a matter of inner harmony and self-mastery rather than material success.* To come to this realization, however, requires some careful reflection on the true nature of virtue; reflection which will show, according to Socrates, that *acting morally is the true route to personal flourishing.* Hence another of his paradoxical claims, that virtue is knowledge, or, in other words, *that if one truly knows what is good one cannot but choose to do it.*

-p.25 Philosophers: Extraordinary People Who Altered the Course of History



doc111 said:


> Who says there is logic in human nature? Claiming a piece of land in the name of Something has been going on since the first human stood erect and clubbed another human over the head for a piece of meat.


With knowledge comes responsibilty.


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## morgentaler (Dec 28, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "So then where's the logic in claiming the moral high ground because of someones belief in something?"
> 
> Huh?


Okay, I giggled.
That's the first post I've seen from you that gets right to the point. 
+rep!


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## morgentaler (Dec 28, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> We *are *accountable. To ourselves.


Yup.
I'm accountable to my friends, my family, any employers, acquaintances, and really anyone I encounter, even my pets.

None of them have to threaten me with an eternity of torture to prevent me from exploiting or hurting them. I treat them well because I choose to. If I act poorly towards them, I also can't justify it with a sky-god and say "My biblical morality justifies me treating you like a shit.". No, if I treat you like a shit, that's because I wasn't a very nice person at the time. The only justification I have is my own viewpoint, not the parroting of a biblical text.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 28, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Cracker watch the video if you want to know the truth. You are just spouting more propaganda again, none of it is true. We have all been lied too and are still being lied too.
> 
> If you want to know the truth just a little research will show it to you.


Oh so they haven't been offered statehood twice? Egypts border isn't sealed?


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## doc111 (Dec 28, 2009)

With knowledge comes responsibilty. [/QUOTE]I agree............now we need to convince the other 6 billion people on the planet.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 28, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Oh so they haven't been offered statehood twice? Egypts border isn't sealed?


What's the deal man I explained you don't have the full story and the answers are in the documentary I posted. Saying they were offered statehood twice and should have been ok with it is like saying if your neighbor steals your house it's ok as long as he gives you the dog shed out back and the 5 feet square of space it's on. Does that sound good to you?
No...

That's the BS we were fed about the story, half truths and lies of omission. Watch the god damned documentary damnit.


----------



## doc111 (Dec 28, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> What's the deal man I explained you don't have the full story and the answers are in the documentary I posted. Saying they were offered statehood twice and should have been ok with it is like saying if your neighbor steals your house it's ok as long as he gives you the dog shed out back and the 5 feet square of space it's on. Does that sound good to you?
> No...
> 
> That's the BS we were fed about the story, half truths and lies of omission. Watch the god damned documentary damnit.


 How credible is this documentary? How do you know it's credible? Did you make it? Do you have some sort of "Inside Knowledge" about the Israeli, Palestinian conflict? This is one of the most complicated territorial disputes in modern history. How can we expect a documentary on this highly divisive subject to not have it's own slant on the situation? Regardless of which side you root for, this is a bad situation for all sides involved with no solution which will make everybody happy.......ever!


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 28, 2009)

I didn't even watch that one.

I've known Jews and I've known Palestinians. I've seen a series of maps showing the movement of boundary lines for the last 50 years as Israel pushes into the Palestinian territories. And have seen videos of soldiers steamrolling homes as they move the fences forward and bring new settlers into the area.

It's too bad that most of the people hurt or killed on both sides are not the people causing all the pain.


----------



## doc111 (Dec 28, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I didn't even watch that one.
> 
> I've known Jews and I've known Palestinians. I've seen a series of maps showing the movement of boundary lines for the last 50 years as Israel pushes into the Palestinian territories. And have seen videos of soldiers steamrolling homes as they move the fences forward and bring new settlers into the area.
> 
> It's too bad that most of the people hurt or killed on both sides are not the people causing all the pain.


To be fair one must mention the use of teenagers strapped with explosives into crowded markets and coffeshops to kill innocent civilians. We don't need to talk about the indiscriminate firing of rockets into neighborhoods. It's all bad on both sides. Israel most definitely has blood on her hands as well. Killing is always bad.........unless it is done for one's own "Righteous Cause".


----------



## Sub Zero (Dec 28, 2009)

*"Atheism" Just another DEAD END!!!  
*


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 28, 2009)

Sub Zero said:


> *"Atheism" Just another DEAD END!!!
> *


Yes it is. 

Atheism is a dead end to ignorance and faith based oppression.

Atheism doesn't have honor killings.
Atheism doesn't support Prop 8 because a 2000 year old book doesn't like gays.
Atheism doesn't rape your children and then hide behind a shield of faith and "religious tolerance"

Edit: Oh, and I love the disclaimer. What is this? Elementary school? If you think the police are going to be interested in your posts, putting that silly garbage on your posts doesn't make you immune to prosecution. Do you still believe the story about undercover cops having to tell you if you ask "Are you a cop?"


----------



## OregonMeds (Dec 28, 2009)

If anyone at all, anyone had watched the documentary you'd see it doesn't take sides and you wouldn't question me about it. It also shows a lot of things you think for sure you do know that you don't. I'm an old fucker and I don't rely on just one documentary I've been around I give you this one documentary which best sums up what some of us have been seeing for years.

It's like all the stuff related to the drug war here and in Mexico. If you folks think you are even getting a fraction of the story here (or a fair one) in between Tiger Woods coverage and the underwear bomber you are crazy. It may not always be a conspiracy but in general we don't get balanced fair coverage and there are only seconds to say whatever someone wanted to say about the issue.

They get better news and documentaries even on the BBC. If you have that channel watch that shit and skip Tiger Woods.

Morgen there's even stuff you may not know in that documentary, the scale of abuse today is unbelievable.


----------



## Katatawnic (Dec 29, 2009)

doc111 said:


> Regardless of which side you root for, this is a bad situation for all sides involved with no solution which will make everybody happy.......ever!


Indeed!



morgentaler said:


> Edit: Oh, and I love the disclaimer. What is this? Elementary school? If you think the police are going to be interested in your posts, putting that silly garbage on your posts doesn't make you immune to prosecution. Do you still believe the story about undercover cops having to tell you if you ask "Are you a cop?"


These signatures crack me up to no end!  Anyone who thinks these statements are safety nets don't think very much.  The best one I came across on RIU was a signature saying that everything she posts is real and true to the best of her knowledge; none of it fake. I gave her rep for that alone.


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 29, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Morgen there's even stuff you may not know in that documentary, the scale of abuse today is unbelievable.


I'll be checking it out eventually. I've just been running movies I've already seen in the background all day and night while I sort though a massive amount of files. I'd miss too much playing it right now


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 29, 2009)

Wow.

Thank god for zionist tv.


----------



## doc111 (Dec 29, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> If anyone at all, anyone had watched the documentary you'd see it doesn't take sides and you wouldn't question me about it. It also shows a lot of things you think for sure you do know that you don't. I'm an old fucker and I don't rely on just one documentary I've been around I give you this one documentary which best sums up what some of us have been seeing for years.
> 
> It's like all the stuff related to the drug war here and in Mexico. If you folks think you are even getting a fraction of the story here (or a fair one) in between Tiger Woods coverage and the underwear bomber you are crazy. It may not always be a conspiracy but in general we don't get balanced fair coverage and there are only seconds to say whatever someone wanted to say about the issue.
> 
> ...


You may be an old fart but believe me bro, I take NOTHING at face value. This documentary may not take sides but there is no way possible that it gives the whole story. I'm sorry but to believe that even the best documentary gives you every bit of info on any subject is naive. I'm sure this is a fantastic documentary. Hell I may even watch it when I feel the urge. I've been to the holy land twice. Human beings will fight for this tiny strip of land until judgement day. Neither side is blameless. Both sides have commited atrocities and to say otherwise is foolish. Is one side more to blame than the other? Perhaps. The Israelis have made significant strides in halting settlements and even removing settlers. The palestinians have slowed down the suicide bombings. I doubt it will stay this way however. This is a bad, bad situation and I choose not to take sides. Israel is not going anywhere and the Palestinians need a state. What's the solution?


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 29, 2009)

All Israel asks is to be left alone and not be constantly attacked by cowards hiding behind women and children.

The ball is in the Arab court for change, not Israels. 

So don't expect a change, cause Arabs aren't good at that.


----------



## growwwww (Dec 29, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> You two have it wrong, you should watch the videos, there's much you don't know it shows in what you said. Palestinians were offered pathetically little and the chance to live permanently in two separate prison camps. You are both repeating the propaganda lies we in the west have been fed for a long time.


About propoganda lies... i think you would be the one whos repeating it, i did hikes in the middle east this years summer and went to loads of seminars and shit, some where about peace. Honestly, the whole place is just fucked up. But israelis dont as so, brutally just kill children like you see in the media man, i was there and went through gaza and well...its something i cant really describe on the internet :/ i heard stories from both kinda people, its so fucked up, the problem is these two things. Its the intra-islam conflict, between sunni and shiat or however you spell it, they are both fucking each other over so much, and making it so much harder for israel to do anything, and of course, israel is a racist state ( no doubt ) and thats a major problem. But ye ive realised i cant really continue in any decent debate on this thread because im active at such different hours...when i come to check it its moved on :/

fuck religion


----------



## growwwww (Dec 29, 2009)

morgan owns!


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 30, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> All Israel asks is to be left alone


Totally...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

http://www.google.com/search?q=history+of+israeli+preemptive+strikes&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS356&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=qRE7S-evGYSuswO4urCHBA&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CCUQ5wIwCg


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## tescu (Dec 30, 2009)

do what you gotta do


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 30, 2009)

tescu said:


> do what you gotta do


 
Does it look to you like "Israel is asking to be left alone"?


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 30, 2009)

It seems even the Israelis don't know what is going on.

Did you watch Occupation 101, Morgentaler?


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 30, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> It seems even the Israelis don't know what is going on.
> 
> Did you watch Occupation 101, Morgentaler?


Yes.
And it reaffirms what I've seen from various other sources.

Funny thing is I've never seen this viewpoint on American new channels.

I've seen it on Canadian, BBC, Al-Jazeerah, but can't think of the last time I saw CNN question what's going on there.


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 30, 2009)

"I've seen it on Canadian, BBC, Al-Jazeerah, but can't think of the last time I saw CNN question what's going on there."
A wise old hippie once winked me a clue in broad daylight as to why.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 30, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Totally...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=history+of+israeli+preemptive+strikes&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS356&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=qRE7S-evGYSuswO4urCHBA&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CCUQ5wIwCg


They didn't start that war paddy, the Arabs did.  That's what happens when you amass an army full of tanks & jets on the border of a nation you have threatened to wipe out. 9 countries amassed weapons, men and supplies along the border rattling their rusty sabers. There's nothing to wait for. The intent was quite clear.

Totally outnumbered in forces and tactically, the Israelis still managed to humiliate the Arabs, and THAT's A BIG reason why they are all still pissed today.

They were humiliated, and rightfully so. Israel should not have to give back one square meter of land.

The Arabs don't deserve it back. They caused the attack by amassing a very large army on Israel borders, and they lost. It's pretty simple.

How you could look at Israel as the aggressor there is beyond me......


----------



## robert 14617 (Dec 30, 2009)

^^^^^thats the way i remember learning of the war


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Dec 30, 2009)

What proportion of Israelis would you guess are Zionists?

"I've looked under chairs
I've looked under tables
I've tried to find the key
To fifty million fables

chorus:
They call me The Seeker
I've been searching low and high
I won't get to get what I'm after
Till the day I die

I asked Bobby Dylan
I asked The Beatles
I asked Timothy Leary
But he couldn't help me either

chorus

People tend to hate me
'Cause I never smile
As I ransack their homes
They want to shake my hand

Focusing on nowhere
Investigating miles
I'm a seeker
I'm a really desperate man

I won't get to get what I'm after
Till the day I die

I learned how to raise my voice in anger
Yeah, but look at my face, ain't this a smile?
I'm happy when life's good
And when it's bad I cry
I've got values but I don't know how or why

I'm looking for me
You're looking for you
We're looking in at each other
And we don't know what to do

chorus"

[youtube]CR-ZAnil_Mw[/youtube]


----------



## doc111 (Dec 30, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> They didn't start that war paddy, the Arabs did.  That's what happens when you amass an army full of tanks & jets on the border of a nation you have threatened to wipe out. 9 countries amassed weapons, men and supplies along the border rattling their rusty sabers. There's nothing to wait for. The intent was quite clear.
> 
> Totally outnumbered in forces and tactically, the Israelis still managed to humiliate the Arabs, and THAT's A BIG reason why they are all still pissed today.
> 
> ...


I used to read every scrap of news I could about Israel. I've studied the history and read numerous books on the subject. It's one of the most confusing and complicated bits of modern world history. The roots of the modern conflict extend back before the time of Christ. It's no wonder people have no clue what the fuck is going on over there and obviously have their history "confused". In any conflict you will always have both or all sides involved pointing the finger at the other guy. Has Israel done some things they aren't proud of? Yes. Have the Palestinians been complete fools? Yes. End of story. Anybody who takes the sides of the Palestinians is either antisemitic or simply misinformed. For the most part, Israel has been the victim. They have been attacked numerous times by their Arab neighbors. We do get fed some propaganda but in reality Israel wants to be left alone. If the palestinians would take the deal offered by the Israelis the conflict would be over. They are never going to get a better deal than what's been offered. They are not going to get rid of Israel. The Arabs say they back the Palestinians but what are they doing to help? Not much. Egypt could give up a little bit of the Sinai but they won't. Syria could give up a bit of the Golan heights, but they won't. Israel has given Gaza and the West Bank to the palestinians. The settlements have been all but halted. Israel has removed a ton of their own settlers by force! What more can they do? Roll over and die? Not gonna happen! The jews have been persecuted throughout history. They deserve to have their own very small country. The palestinians hold their destiny in their own hands. They can either make the best of it or keep up the fighting and never get what they say they want. The whole situation is a bad one and is more complicated than most people could ever imagine.


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## doc111 (Dec 30, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> What proportion of Israelis would you guess are Zionists?
> 
> "I've looked under chairs
> I've looked under tables
> ...


Technically, all the Jewish Israelis are Zionists.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 30, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> ^^^^^thats the way i remember learning of the war


You got an unfiltered education then ... well done! 

Besides all that, if you go back to the events of WW2, which initiated everything ... the Arabs for the most part ended up on the WRONG side of history, and moral judgment. 

They sided with the NAZIS!! There were, and I'm being subtle here, there were some hard feelings left over after that war, and rightfully so. 

The Arabs chose POORLY, and continue to choose POORLY.

They don't want to give their ppl human rights like Israel has done for their citizens. It's a thorn in their side of oppression.

That's two humiliations from Israel, and the Arabs can't STAND it.


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 30, 2009)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "I've seen it on Canadian, BBC, Al-Jazeerah, but can't think of the last time I saw CNN question what's going on there."
> A wise old hippie once winked me a clue in broad daylight as to why.


Yes, yes, I know why. Blah blah blah.
And I'm going to be putting you on ignore unless you give this shit up.

At least Brevity got you to stop talking like Yoda for 5 minutes.


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 30, 2009)

If anyone enjoyed 'Day of the Triffids' book or BBC miniseries in 81, the remake came out as a two parter this week and can be found on your friendly neighborhood torrent sites. It has a bigger budget, but I think I might like the 1981 show better. Then again, things often age better in memory than in reality.


----------



## growwwww (Dec 30, 2009)

theres a stupid amount of hippies coming out from israel though, there are a clan on them in London UK who are such fucking stoners its mad, all dreadlocked and so cool, they wont stop about how fucked up the whole thing is. They have all been to the army and tell me a small proportion of people ( bigger per 1k people of most countries though ) go to india after and do loadsa fucking psychadelic n shit. its nutts, honestly israelies are fucking nutts people when it comes to drugs, partying and shit, they wanna escape the mayhem!


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 30, 2009)

Jewish hippies, that's a scream!!


----------



## growwwww (Dec 30, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Jewish hippies, that's a scream!!


They aint jewish they dont keep religion or whatever its just nutts though, i have honestly never in my life met such stoned and hip guys. These fucking well built, dreaded israelis, thick accent and just so madly peaceful. Really cool guys. Im not jewish or anything just know a bunch of them in londoners hang in sort of the same circle, really top blokes, however...most of them are kinda trampy like they squat about n stuff...Do kinda need to get jobs haha


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 30, 2009)

My bad, Israeli hippies!!! I'm not Jewish either....

Everyone serves at some point, not the worst idea.


----------



## growwwww (Dec 30, 2009)

im just really really high right now, and im just thinking about it, its so nutts! haha fucking we get fed so much shit about how ruthless israelis are n shit and here are a fairly big population of massive hippies and a tradition of going to india after the army to get fucked and rave...Its madness!!!


----------



## doc111 (Dec 30, 2009)

growwwww said:


> theres a stupid amount of hippies coming out from israel though, there are a clan on them in London UK who are such fucking stoners its mad, all dreadlocked and so cool, they wont stop about how fucked up the whole thing is. They have all been to the army and tell me a small proportion of people ( bigger per 1k people of most countries though ) go to india after and do loadsa fucking psychadelic n shit. its nutts, honestly israelies are fucking nutts people when it comes to drugs, partying and shit, they wanna escape the mayhem!


I met some of those Israeli hippies while I was over there. Some of them are hardcore Jews though.


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 30, 2009)

It's too bad the entire cultural identity is based on the religion.

It really makes it hard for the individual to have a say in how they are perceived. If you were to describe yourself as an atheist Jew it would confuse some people to no end.

And when people look at the Palestinians and Israelis they only see Hamas and the militant settlers / Israeli troops.

Meanwhile civilians bear the brunt of the damage.

Question the tactics of Israel as a country, and people will brand you as anti-semetic. Though I've also had serious misgivings about American foreign policy and that doesn't make me anti-American. Any more than questioning our own treatment of Aboriginals would make me Anti-Canadian.

The current method of dealing with Hamas sounds like this quote from the Untouchables:
"You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue."

What's the solution? Dunno. But it didn't work for America in either Vietnam or Iraq.
You can't indiscriminately kill civilians when responding to a guerrilla force and expect conflict to cease. The idea that the civilian populace will reject the guerrilla forces doesn't work, because, as we've seen in the VC and Insurgents, they just drive into town, call out someone for not being true to the cause and execute them to scare the rest into submission. 

Let's just start a new Jewish homeland in Canada. There's room here somewhere.


----------



## doc111 (Dec 30, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> It's too bad the entire cultural identity is based on the religion.
> 
> It really makes it hard for the individual to have a say in how they are perceived. If you were to describe yourself as an atheist Jew it would confuse some people to no end.
> 
> ...


They don't want a new homeland. They have one called Israel. That is the historical homeland of the Jews and the center of the zionist movement. It is unfortunate that Israel has taken such a hardline approach to their own civilian populace being brutally attacked. That's reality in that part of the world. The palestinians and muslims in general don't place a high value on human life. In fact most countries from that part of the world don't place a high value on human life. It's a hard thing to imagine but one that must be experienced to be understood. I served in Somalia and can't think of a better example of this.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 30, 2009)

After what they went through in WW2, even discounting the centuries of abuse before by many civilizations (think church), they wanted and desperately needed a "home base".

They felt safe in Germany before the war. History has taught them that a home base is the only true solution to end their persecution, not as an enclave in someone else's country.

They didn't count on the Nazi Arabs.


----------



## growwwww (Dec 30, 2009)

hmm maybe some of them are "proper jews" not the ones i know but i can imagine hehe


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 31, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> They didn't start that war paddy, the Arabs did.  That's what happens when you amass an army full of tanks & jets on the border of a nation you have threatened to wipe out. 9 countries amassed weapons, men and supplies along the border rattling their rusty sabers. There's nothing to wait for. The intent was quite clear.
> 
> Totally outnumbered in forces and tactically, the Israelis still managed to humiliate the Arabs, and THAT's A BIG reason why they are all still pissed today.
> 
> ...


scary...you and I wholeheartedly agree on this topic.
Could it be the fatigue?
No, but seriously, you are right on target.
See CJ, miracles really do happen.


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 31, 2009)

robert 14617 said:


> ^^^^^thats the way i remember learning of the war


*6 day war...Israelis kicked ass!*
*....and some say there is no God.*


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 31, 2009)

doc111 said:


> Technically, all the Jewish Israelis are Zionists.


 *Zionism---the right that Israel simply exist.*
*I'd say that makes me a zionist.*


----------



## "SICC" (Dec 31, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


>



lol this pic just made my night, or morning i should say, thanks stoney


----------



## tebor (Dec 31, 2009)

Wow. Israels mighty propaganda machine is stronger than i thought.
they copied Goebbels well.


----------



## Katatawnic (Dec 31, 2009)

One day in the Garden of Eden, Eve calls out to God, "Lord, I have a problem!"

"What's the problem, Eve?"

"Lord, I know you've created me and have provided this beautiful garden and all of these wonderful animals, and that hilarious comedy snake, but I'm just not happy."

"Why is that, Eve?" came the reply from above.

"Lord, I am lonely. And I'm sick to death of apples."

"Well, Eve, in that case, I have a solution. I shall create a man for you."

"What's a 'man', Lord?"

"A man is a flawed creature, with aggressive tendencies, an enormous ego and an inability to empathize or listen to you properly. All in all, he'll give you a hard time. He'll be bigger and faster and more muscular than you. He'll be really good at fighting and kicking a ball about and hunting fleet-footed ruminants, and not altogether bad in the sack."

"Sounds great," says Eve, with an ironically raised eyebrow.

"Yeah, well. He's better than a poke in the eye with a burnt stick. But, you can only have him on one condition."

"What's that, Lord?"

"You'll have to let him believe that I made him first."


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 31, 2009)

Yah, bigotry is kewl ... shuffle off.

Know ur history folks....


----------



## shnkrmn (Dec 31, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *6 day war...Israelis kicked ass!*
> *....and some say there is no God.*


Yes, and the stench of war, blood, shit, death is as sweet incense to his sanctified nostrils.

You are bloodthirsty, babs.


----------



## growwwww (Dec 31, 2009)

to be honest, if the six day war didint happen, israel was lost, becamse palestine...more blood would have been shed, and then even more blood most probably with intra-arab conflict, the shiat and sunni....Can you not see what were on about, both are fucked up.


----------



## tebor (Dec 31, 2009)

tebor said:


> Wow. Israels mighty propaganda machine is stronger than i thought.
> they copied Goebbels well.



I don't believe this by the way.
just trying to get the Conspiracy Theorists +rep.

I came to this section to talk about Penis Power


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 31, 2009)

The Arabs need to remember that they were on the WRONG SIDE of history during WW2.

Without Arab aggression, there would be no problems at all.


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 31, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> The Arabs need to remember that they were on the WRONG SIDE of history during WW2.
> 
> Without Arab aggression, there would be no problems at all.


Name me one country who has never been on "the wrong side of history" at some point in time.

What is your point that the Arabs supported the Nazi's durring WW2? So did the Italians... so did the Japanese...


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 31, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Name me one country who has never been on "the wrong side of history" at some point in time.
> 
> What is your point that the Arabs supported the Nazi's durring WW2? So did the Italians... so did the Japanese...


So did a good number of North Americans, both in the US and Canada.


----------



## CrackerJax (Dec 31, 2009)

Uhh, you don't make the big mistakes in the first place.

I'm putting it into historical perspective. Israel came into being soon after the end of the war. Memories were QUITE fresh, and again, that's what happens when you choose poorly.
Then they get sore when they get humiliated on the battlefield when they have the superiority ... overwhelmingly.

There's a lot of insecurity projection coming from the arabs and decades of that insecurity has become habit forming. Having a model of democracy and success is a constant reminder to the Arab leaders that Israel provides something we all take for granted here in the states ... freedom for it's ppl. 

It's not really abut a treaty....




Suck it up, grow a pair and get over it.

Only the Arabs can stop the violence, no one else. No one else is the aggressor.


----------



## PadawanBater (Dec 31, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Uhh, you don't make the big mistakes in the first place.
> 
> I'm putting it into historical perspective. Israel came into being soon after the end of the war. Memories were QUITE fresh, and again, that's what happens when you choose poorly.
> Then they get sore when they get humiliated on the battlefield when they have the superiority ... overwhelmingly.
> ...


 
Take this bullshit to your Iran update thread Cracker. It doesn't have anything to do with atheism.


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 31, 2009)

PadawanBater said:


> Take this bullshit to your Iran update thread Cracker. It doesn't have anything to do with atheism.


 *Holy Shit!!! *
*You friggen HYPOCRITE!*
*But, doesn't it???? You of all people so FREELY showcase your BS hypocrisy?*
*Oh, wth......it's New Years.....NOT EVEN GOING THERE.*
*You are but a trinket of science working in action via the Saudis.*
*I see how it works for you babies....just no patience to divulge in the details.*
*One word: PATHETIC.*


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 31, 2009)

Katatawnic said:


> One day in the Garden of Eden, Eve calls out to God, "Lord, I have a problem!"
> 
> "What's the problem, Eve?"
> 
> ...


I have to give it to you Kat...I like it, in fact I LOVE it A LOT.
My personal joke (as a God-forsken Christian  no doubt) has ALWAYS been since I remember reading the Bible......if it took a MERE woman to tempt Adam, and yet the devil himself to tempt Eve, who do you suppose is the "stronger" of the sexes?
Women are tricky. Men are "tricky".....but men are JUST MEN. HAHAHAHAHA
Sorry if some, if not most, don't get my current mentality--not--I am who I am.
Learn to decipher REALITY.

"Sounds great," says Eve, with an ironically raised eyebrow

*Very "enlightening" to see women getting it on every realm...atheist or not. *


----------



## Kriegs (Dec 31, 2009)

I look at the vehemence with which the religious vent their views, and it reinforces my atheism daily.


----------



## Babs34 (Dec 31, 2009)

Kriegs said:


> I look at the vehemence with which the religious vent their views, and it reinforces my atheism daily.


 

To each their own.
For me, it reinforces the deliberate, yet precise inaccuracies/realities of Biblical history.*
*


----------



## morgentaler (Dec 31, 2009)

Genesis makes no mention that Adam ever saw the snake talk.
Seems like the only deceiver in that garden came with a vagina. 


And then there's this:
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, 
"Cursed are you above all the livestock 
and all the wild animals! 
You will crawl on your belly 
and you will eat dust 
all the days of your life. 

After there being no mention that the serpent was the devil we see the above. He certainly isn't addressing it as one of his angels. And he says they are cursed... which is odd, since if he's God he can just make it go away instead of being one of the world's most widely established reptile families.
Snakes don't eat dust. Some eat rodents, eggs, insects, and the large ones have been known to eat larger prey, with the African Rock Pythons having been known to snack upon a village child now and then.

So another fib by God in Genesis, after telling them they would surely die.

And a misrepresentation by Christians that the snake was the devil.

And somewhere in the middle east is a gate with a little fat kid with wings and a sword! Why can't I find it on Google Map?!


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## Katatawnic (Dec 31, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> I have to give it to you Kat...I like it, in fact I LOVE it A LOT.
> My personal joke (as a God-forsken Christian  no doubt) has ALWAYS been since I remember reading the Bible......if it took a MERE woman to tempt Adam, and yet the devil himself to tempt Eve, who do you suppose is the "stronger" of the sexes?
> Women are tricky. Men are "tricky".....but men are JUST MEN. HAHAHAHAHA
> Sorry if some, if not most, don't get my current mentality--not--I am who I am.
> ...


Funny that it was a "God-forsaken Christian woman" who got a kick out of that.  Remember, though, that the "devil" wasn't mentioned in the Bible yet. That character was explicitly referred to as a serpent; had it been God's adversary, it would have been made clear who was to "blame" for our "original sin" affliction. Just as for centuries Mary Magdalene was believed to be the unnamed prostitute that Jesus forgave right before Mary was introduced into his story, taught by the Church itself, who finally "recanted" only fairly recently in history (and many people still aren't aware of this)... the serpent has been assumed to be the "devil" via teachings of people who decided to interpret the writings for us.

Moving on from being so damn literal all the time...  It's indeed interesting that Eve was convinced by a so-called manipulator (you'd have to read my latest thread to see why I say "so-called"), whereas Adam only needed Eve's words rather than some creature that was (one would assume by reading the chapter) mesmerizing and cunning. Who really gave in so easily? 



morgentaler said:


> Genesis makes no mention that Adam ever saw the snake talk.
> Seems like the only deceiver in that garden came with a vagina.
> 
> 
> ...


So the battle of the sexes begins! Guess I started it with my little joke though, eh? 

And this now ties in the thread I began the other day.  I thought the debate was whether it was God or the serpent who lied, and now you're bringing vaginas into it? What a brat you are! 

I totally forgot about the whole "eating dust" thing...


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## morgentaler (Dec 31, 2009)

WTF! You west coasters are in for a surprise. As soon as the clock rolled over to Midnight a big humvee pulled up in front of the house and Jesus himself jumped out and said it's the Rapture, and we've been drafted. We're going to Jesusland!

Apparently it takes a few hours for the lower intestine to morph into a solid rocket booster to propel us up to Jesusland so I have this brief opportunity to let you know in advance what 2010 holds for you.

Happy New Year, and don't go to the bathroom! You might miss out on Jesusland!

P.S. When we get there we all get our own dinosaur! And a 2 ark garage!


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## Babs34 (Dec 31, 2009)

shnkrmn said:


> Yes, and the stench of war, blood, shit, death is as sweet incense to his sanctified nostrils.
> 
> You are bloodthirsty, babs.


*Wow, I almost missed this post.*

*Yup, that's me......blood thirsty.*
*The later description pertaining to how I know God is so entirely off basis....yet typical when assessed "supposedly accordingly."*
*May I suggest you ask a person's individual perception PRIOR to judgement?*

*Consider for just a moment that I am currently in the process for REPRIMANDING my son with consequences galore solely for finally being FED UP with passively tolearting bullying for months! His "classmate" has been dictating that he move from whatever seat he has chosen to take........a powertrip from this child, no doubt.*
*Little did I know that my son had been TAKING dictation from this little boy for months. My son is the type to hold things in again and again---thinking it the right way to handle appropriately, without "proper assesment".......*
*After being pushed to the utter extremes, he explodes! This boy had DICTATED he move from his seat "once again"........and he had it to the point where he just said, "Nope." (Let's not mention where this same boy took his $700 instrument and threw it like a frisbee)*

*Long story short......my son has been taught that no matter what the situation, he is NOT to resort to violence---UNLESS he has NO OTHER option but to !!!!.....AND that it had BETTER be because he was had NO option BUT to defend himself to the HILT!*

*That is what extent I will take even minutely "excusing" the VIOLENCE.*
*We have had EXPLICIT conversations pertaining to what will be even remotely acceptable!*

*I have basically, let my pubescent teen know, that under NO circumstances, will I PERMIT his EVEN striking another child without KNOWLEDGE he has no other choice in which to defend himself!!!*
*You've NO idea how implicitly I've made that message ABUNDANTLY CLEAR!*
*I will tell you right now that my son, AFTER having tolerated this boy's "dictations" for SO long, he FINALLY snapped and knocked the shit out of him! Another boy who had been bullied by this particular boy initiated his response.*
*Altough my son had EVERY RIGHT to DEFEND himself, I have PUNISHED him for not PROPERLY "defending" himself.*
*As a parent, a part of me wished to tell him to just kick that little boy's ass, but I am much more mature than to go that route.*
*Unless you are a parent and have had your child bullied, you don't need to even think yourself capable of replying.*
*Blood thirsty???*
*You couldn't even possibly be further from the truth.*
*I know of no Christian who will tell you that Israel is not going to be held accountable before God.*
*The biggest problem with most atheists and beliefs pertaining to Chritianity is that they pre-conceive notions as to how we believe.*
*Aside from this being a "religious" factor, I've alway been the type to advocate the under dog.*
*Israel is NOT the aggressor!!*
*For those who blindly accept them as so, I've little advice to give them, other than....DO YOUR HOMEWORK.*
**


*HAPPY NEW YEARS. *


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## Babs34 (Dec 31, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> WTF! You west coasters are in for a surprise. As soon as the clock rolled over to Midnight a big humvee pulled up in front of the house and Jesus himself jumped out and said it's the Rapture, and we've been drafted. We're going to Jesusland!
> 
> Apparently it takes a few hours for the lower intestine to morph into a solid rocket booster to propel us up to Jesusland so I have this brief opportunity to let you know in advance what 2010 holds for you.
> 
> ...


Me thinks you're just experiencing a bad trip on acid.....take two asprin and call me in the morning.


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## PadawanBater (Dec 31, 2009)

Babs, you get crazier and crazier each post! Now it's to the point of incoherent giberish...

I'll make it easy for you... (or any other believers reading along who think they might have answers to these questions)

Since this is a thread about atheism and all..


-What is the strongest secular (outside the bible) evidence that supports Christianity?

-Do you acknowledge evolution is how human beings got here? That our ancestors were once sea dwelling animals, then the descendants of them developed the tools and abilities neccessary to walk and survive on land... gills to lungs and fins to feet/wrists/ankles, and such, then later mammals emerged, then primates, then us? Or do you think everything that currently exists now has always existed in it's present form, and all animals have existed alongside eachother (cows with veloceraptors, buffalo with sabertooth tigers, etc...) since creation?

-What have you got to say about DNA and it's ability to tell us about the past?

-Is all life related or not?

-Can someone be moral without believing in a god?


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## Katatawnic (Dec 31, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *As a parent, a part of me wished to tell him to just kick that little boy's ass, but I am much more mature than to go that route.*
> *Unless you are a parent and have had your child bullied, you don't need to even think yourself capable of replying.*


My son (M) was severely bullied, at the hands of my older son (R) more than anyone else. I'm not referring to "sibling rivalry" in the least; I know the difference between brothers battling and violent abuse. When M was about 11 or 12, I did basically "get on" him about fighting back and getting R off of him once and for all. Back then, he said he chose to take it because if he fought back he'd get beaten more severely, whereas if he took it then it would end soon. We finally got to the point of separating them in the hopes of them being able to have small enough doses of each other to grow into young men who got along and even might, GASP, become friends... so R moved in with my mom, and they saw each other on holidays and several weekends/vacations a year. It was all we could do to prevent one from severely hurting the other, and harboring years of rage and hatred between them.

Fast forward, now they're 19 & 22. A couple/few months ago, M comes for a visit, and he's quite distraught. The night before, R was doing his usual *dictating* to M; how to live his life and run his household. (Mind you, R was a guest at M's home that week, but that's R's personality: boss others around and tell them how to live their lives, all the while thinking he's taking the focus off of his own behaviors and downfalls.) M and his roommates were fed up, and M told R to just knock it off. R's answer to this was, as usual, to pop M in the face.

After nineteen years of rage at having been bullied and dictated to by his brother, M responded in kind. And he believed he could literally have killed R in the process, had M's best friend not pulled him off. He wasn't distraught at having kicked R's ass, however. The torture he was going through was due solely to the sheer animalistic rage he experienced, and the primal urge to kill. (I assured him that when one is to the point of such rage and violence, one isn't rationally thinking, "I want to blacken this guy's eye a bit." There is no rationality at this point, and the urge/thought of "I want to kill!" is instinct. He knows that I wasn't "condoning" the violence; rather, assuring him that the thoughts that came with the violence are natural and normal.)

Most of all, he was furious with himself for having allowed R to dictate to and bully him all his life, believing himself to be "keeping the peace" in doing so. Had he stood up to the bullying years earlier, R would have backed off, and violence as severe as this incident would likely have never occurred. (Sure enough, R has avoided M like the plague since, and there's been genuine fear in his voice and in his eyes at the mention of his brother. BTW, R is a sociopath, so for him to suddenly act like this says something.)

It's certainly not the "mature" thing for a parent to advise one's child to kick that bully's ass. But there is absolutely no reasoning with people who do the bullying. So what is the bullied to do? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

I'm not giving you an answer or solution, nor telling anyone how to raise their kids in the least. (Though I can completely understand why your son snapped, as I do with mine. lol) Just saying it's a B.S. situation all around, and finding a solution to such issues would most likely be the end to not just "playground" bullying, but also the end to terrorism, war, etc.

SHEESH! I'm not even high, and I'm rambling like crazy today!


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## morgentaler (Jan 1, 2010)

Sociopathic kids are *no* fun. My ex-stepson showed all the signs. Zero empathy. Poor impulse control.
Wouldn't wish those experiences on anyone.


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## BongHits4Jesus (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for taking the time to sum everything up like that man. +Rep


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## Katatawnic (Jan 1, 2010)

Tell me about it... it breaks my heart that my own son is someone I can't ever be close to nor trust, yet I've also started to just become "numb" to it the last couple of years as well. It's the only way I can cope. I drove myself insane trying to "reach" him for years, but there is no reaching a sociopath. We converse like mere acquaintances, and I basically pretend I don't love him; I won't allow him the ability to use my love as a weapon against me anymore. Yet I have to admit, the "love" I feel for him now has become, honestly, not just a maternal instinct, but even a feeling of "obligation" so to speak. I know that if I hadn't given birth to him, I wouldn't have much of anything to do with him.

Zero empathy, zero impulse control, zero remorse. They don't care about how they make others feel; only how others make them feel. Other people are their projects, and nothing more. And that whole "blending in with society" thing... absolutely true! Talk about master manipulators too! I know that's why he decided he "hated" me several years ago: I'm the only person he knew that saw through his manipulations and didn't let him get past me with it. That drove him mad, and he set out to attempt to destroy me for a few years. Now we're cordial to each other, which makes it all much easier for me and my family.

Reality bites sometimes, eh?


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## BiG PuFFer (Jan 1, 2010)

if god created everyone then he created skeptics too.


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## Katatawnic (Jan 1, 2010)

"If" being the key word.


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 1, 2010)

jesus is a joke. he's nothing but a generic "messiah"


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 1, 2010)

Humanisty has been exceedingly intelligent for an exceedingly long time In Our Minds and has done very well with the tools at hand.
Don't be fooled for a second that native savages are less human than you.
We just have different realities because our perceptions are different.

Christianity is older than the modern bible books.



Babs34 said:


> To each their own.
> For me, it reinforces the deliberate, yet precise inaccuracies/realities of Biblical history.


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## morgentaler (Jan 1, 2010)

Maybe Babs can tell us the age at which it is appropriate to tell a child that they are going to be tortured for eternity if they don't love Jesus?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 1, 2010)

morgentaler, please open your mind and souless bag of worm food to the next sentence.

You appear to be a very smart man and I know you know a theist does not have to believe in the Abrahamic trio, yet you viciously attack anyone with a theist perspective with great animosity (because, as you have said, you want them to vote like you) by instantly and generically ascribing your perception of what a christian is to them and then begin throwing internet stones and ridiculing them for believing ALL of the preachings of the imaginary religion you constructed in your mind and then ascribed to them.

That is just plain mean, and not conducive to the betterment of the human race nor does it add to humansity's knowledge base.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 1, 2010)

It's not unreasonable to want those who wish to impose their worldview on EVERYONE to cease trying to do so. The problem with people of faith is they try to use their collective numbers and institutions to dictate to the rest of us. We can be regularly damned to the fiery pit but should we push back against the believers we are damned for being anti-christian and therefore somehow bigoted in some fashion. Really, it's just pure self-defense. Apparently religious folk can organize into churches and use all sorts of militaristic, expansionist imagery (Onward, Christian Soldiers, missionaries 'fighting for unsaved souls, threaten unbelievers with the fiery flames, etc), but if atheists try to gather support for their point of view, rent a billboard, hold a rally, it's considered an attack against religion (and country, in the good ole USA).

You seem to think that no harm can ensue from everyone thinking just as they wish and acting accordingly, and our society supposedly enshrines that as a individual right. Perhaps you are right. But organizations and institutions are another thing, ; they are much more powerful than individuals and create a monolithic belief system which only somewhat overlaps with the beliefs of individuals contained within them. Kind of like AARP presuming to speak for everyone over the age of 50.

There's nothing mean about pushing back against the tide of lies and myths which threatens to engulf us seculars from every side.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 1, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> It's not unreasonable to want those who wish to impose their worldview on EVERYONE to cease trying to do so. The problem with people of faith is they try to use their collective numbers and institutions to dictate to the rest of us. We can be regularly damned to the fiery pit but should we push back against the believers we are damned for being anti-christian and therefore somehow bigoted in some fashion. Really, it's just pure self-defense. Apparently religious folk can organize into churches and use all sorts of militaristic, expansionist imagery (Onward, Christian Soldiers, missionaries 'fighting for unsaved souls, threaten unbelievers with the fiery flames, etc), but if atheists try to gather support for their point of view, rent a billboard, hold a rally, it's considered an attack against religion (and country, in the good ole USA).
> 
> You seem to think that no harm can ensue from everyone thinking just as they wish and acting accordingly, and our society supposedly enshrines that as a individual right. Perhaps you are right. But organizations and institutions are another thing, ; they are much more powerful than individuals and create a monolithic belief system which only somewhat overlaps with the beliefs of individuals contained within them. Kind of like AARP presuming to speak for everyone over the age of 50.
> 
> There's nothing mean about pushing back against the tide of lies and myths which threatens to engulf us seculars from every side.


 
Exactly! Atheism is the defense. Couldn't agree more.


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## Kushkittens (Jan 1, 2010)

Great post. Go atheism!


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## "SICC" (Jan 1, 2010)

you guys are just as bad as the religious people, you try and force what you think on others, but its almost worse in the fact that you all hold yourselves above everyone else.

its like your trying to prove something you cant prove, the fact is no one know's if there is, or is not a god or whatever you wanna call it


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## Kushkittens (Jan 1, 2010)

> you guys are just as bad as the religious people, you try and force what you think on others, but its almost worse in the fact that you all hold yourselves above everyone else.
> 
> its like your trying to prove something you cant prove, the fact is no one know's if there is, or is not a god or whatever you wanna call it


Religious people deffinatly hold themselfs higher to others. Its not that atheists push thier beliefs on people, its just religion and its followers have been dominating the scene for years. I think there just tired of it nd want to throw another option out there for people. 

but ur rite, no1 can proove nething, thats why the religious and non religious will never win the arguement, its un-winable lol


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## PadawanBater (Jan 1, 2010)

[QUOTE="SICC";3600801]you guys are just as bad as the religious people, you try and force what you think on others, but its almost worse in the fact that you all hold yourselves above everyone else.

its like your trying to prove something you cant prove, the fact is no one know's if there is, or is not a god or whatever you wanna call it[/QUOTE]

How are atheists trying to force anything on anyone? What is it they're trying to force? You seem to be suggesting there is some sort of atheist agenda or something...

And think about what you're really saying with this statement;

"but its almost worse in the fact that you all hold yourselves above everyone else."

When the atheist is the *only one* saying "I don't know" and everyone else has all the answers... 

No.

Belief that an all powerful creator created the *entire universe* for humanity... to me, that's "holding yourself above everyone else" -- and the fact almost all of them claim the moral high ground - that belief in their specific god is what makes morality possible, and without such a belief in the same god, one cannot be moral - really ices the cake...


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## Kushkittens (Jan 1, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> How are atheists trying to force anything on anyone? What is it they're trying to force? You seem to be suggesting there is some sort of atheist agenda or something...
> 
> And think about what you're really saying with this statement;
> 
> ...


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## CrackerJax (Jan 1, 2010)

Pointing out logical thinking isn't a force. 

It's an opportunity.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 1, 2010)

"You seem to be suggesting there is some sort of atheist agenda or something..."

There a number of those here that do indeed have blazing agendas that have been presented and discussed above board.

A generalized atheist agenda is as whimsical as any other disorganized religious agenda.


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## growwwww (Jan 1, 2010)

[QUOTE="SICC";3600801]you guys are just as bad as the religious people, you try and force what you think on others, but its almost worse in the fact that you all hold yourselves above everyone else.

its like your trying to prove something you cant prove, the fact is no one know's if there is, or is not a god or whatever you wanna call it[/QUOTE]

Erm, most definetly not.

We are merely forcing our intolerance towards ( justified ) sexism, racism, animal torture and the conditioning of such stark ideology on young and vulnerable minds.

Im pretty sure, you look at the most absolute athiests, you look at the most absoulute religiious. Who would you truly rather be forcing what they think onto people...I truly think its clear.

About proof, well thats exactly the whole point -_-


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 1, 2010)

"Who would you truly rather be forcing what they think onto people...I truly think its clear."

Why force things down other people's throats?


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## growwwww (Jan 1, 2010)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "Who would you truly rather be forcing what they think onto people...I truly think its clear."
> 
> Why force things down other people's throats?


Very true! my bad.

But it was justy an example, to say, as if, there was a forceful militant athiests/ militant religious person...

Yah man, we dont want anyshit going down anyones throats. Apart from the girlfriends...


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## Kushkittens (Jan 1, 2010)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "Who would you truly rather be forcing what they think onto people...I truly think its clear."
> 
> Why force things down other people's throats?


forcing things down peoples throats =religion.


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## growwwww (Jan 1, 2010)

ahh shit, that was maybe one of the most innapropriate ways to finish a post, my bad. Sorry! that was not cool to say.


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## Kushkittens (Jan 1, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Very true! my bad.
> 
> But it was justy an example, to say, as if, there was a forceful militant athiests/ militant religious person...
> 
> Yah man, we dont want anyshit going down anyones throats. Apart from the girlfriends...


 
hahaha


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## PadawanBater (Jan 1, 2010)

[youtube]wzCI2yHNboI&feature=sub[/youtube]

This is pretty cool, Dawkins and Thunderf00t talking about sciency stuff.


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## Inviolate (Jan 1, 2010)

I have a question, which may or may not have been posted on this extensive thread: If a God exists and he was personal i.e. interested in our living in harmony on Earth and set everything in place for us - how would you want said deity to communicate with you such that you would have enough evidence that he/she/it exists? Would you like GOD infomercials or an angel hovering around or chains of books all in accordance with each other? At what point would you go from saying "no this is fucking insane/I'm fucking insane" to "yea that informecial convinced me, God exists." Or is there seriously no objective way of God being proven to each individual man and for man to be convinced in his own free will?


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## ThaDutchieCouple (Jan 1, 2010)

i'm a free thinker/atheist, i really don't like to classify myself into any sect.. religion is dangerous because it makes people feel like they have all the answers when they actually know nothing and continue to misinform themselves thought out life not letting other opinions even scientific fact interfere in there dreamland existence. first of all thinking that their is a more powerful being than yourself is completely giving your power away, as most believers think god is guiding your life, what about taking the reins for yourself, god is almost like a security blanket for the weak, and those who are fearful. Letting people like this "teach" children is wrong, and should not be done at all, you need to have developed rational thinking before you introduce such nonsense presenting it as the one and only truth, then stating that if you choose to think otherwise you will spend eternity in a fiery scary place called hell. what do you except a child to do? Its obvious they will believe what their elders tell them especially if it has an consequence.. I really wouldn't bother being an atheist and taking time out of my day to type this if religion doesn't effect my life and society as a whole. Its no longer a personal belief when my government is funding things church related and not taxing them whatsoever, or trying to get abortions banned because in their eyes "god doesn't make mistakes" when it comes to creating humans. Well its a woman's right to choose whether she wants to bring a child into the world or not its her body bottom line. If i was to be pregnant at 17 by accident my choices would be carrying around a baby getting fat and dealing with all the other lovely symptoms and go through labor because its "murder" and a child is a child at conception? well to people that think that fuck you, that's not right, a baby completely changes your life and it will never be the same and not to mention money for it to have a good life, so to all you pro-lifers, you should think little harder about what your standing up for..Not to mention the fact that our population is already 6 billion and we are nearly facing a water crisis..but that's a whole other conversation..I choose to think as i do because there is far more evidence supporting it, and i don't choose to believe a set of beliefs just because of a book. 

Anyone agree?

S xox


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## CrackerJax (Jan 1, 2010)

Inviolate said:


> I have a question, which may or may not have been posted on this extensive thread: If a God exists and he was personal i.e. interested in our living in harmony on Earth and set everything in place for us - how would you want said deity to communicate with you such that you would have enough evidence that he/she/it exists? Would you like GOD infomercials or an angel hovering around or chains of books all in accordance with each other? At what point would you go from saying "no this is fucking insane/I'm fucking insane" to "yea that informecial convinced me, God exists." Or is there seriously no objective way of God being proven to each individual man and for man to be convinced in his own free will?


Certainly the best way would be to send a "son" to a remote area of the planet before mass communication is invented, and then have him get killed and nobody records the event for 40 years or so, and then only one story is actually written by the ppl who were never there.

Oh wait ... that's been done. NVM...



ThaDutchieCouple said:


> i'm a free thinker/atheist, i really don't like to classify myself into any sect.. religion is dangerous because it makes people feel like they have all the answers when they actually know nothing and continue to misinform themselves thought out life not letting other opinions even scientific fact interfere in there dreamland existence. first of all thinking that their is a more powerful being than yourself is completely giving your power away, as most believers think god is guiding your life, what about taking the reins for yourself, god is almost like a security blanket for the weak, and those who are fearful. Letting people like this "teach" children is wrong, and should not be done at all, you need to have developed rational thinking before you introduce such nonsense presenting it as the one and only truth, then stating that if you choose to think otherwise you will spend eternity in a fiery scary place called hell. what do you except a child to do? Its obvious they will believe what their elders tell them especially if it has an consequence.. I really wouldn't bother being an atheist and taking time out of my day to type this if religion doesn't effect my life and society as a whole. Its no longer a personal belief when my government is funding things church related and not taxing them whatsoever, or trying to get abortions banned because in their eyes "god doesn't make mistakes" when it comes to creating humans. Well its a woman's right to choose whether she wants to bring a child into the world or not its her body bottom line. If i was to be pregnant at 17 by accident my choices would be carrying around a baby getting fat and dealing with all the other lovely symptoms and go through labor because its "murder" and a child is a child at conception? well to people that think that fuck you, that's not right, a baby completely changes your life and it will never be the same and not to mention money for it to have a good life, so to all you pro-lifers, you should think little harder about what your standing up for..Not to mention the fact that our population is already 6 billion and we are nearly facing a water crisis..but that's a whole other conversation..I choose to think as i do because there is far more evidence supporting it, and i don't choose to believe a set of beliefs just because of a book.
> 
> Anyone agree?
> 
> S xox


I'm sorry, did you say something? 

I agree with you. Crazy huh....


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## morgentaler (Jan 1, 2010)

Which god?

Any scripture with provably false statements can be used in a process of elimination.

Once we isolate the god who doesn't, and have the parameters which describe the state of that god we go from there.



Inviolate said:


> Or is there seriously no objective way of God being proven to each individual man and for man to be convinced in his own free will?


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## morgentaler (Jan 1, 2010)

So....
I just tried to track down the bible passage on prayer where it's said that you can pray for anything and it will come to pass and you can even summon the "divine" one to you. I had it before, but can't remember where it was off-hand.

I constantly see people proclaim prayer works on one side, while other people pray fervently for dying and sick family members or other causes to no effect.
So either prayer works or it doesn't.

If it works, I wondered, why is it so selective?

Is there only so much bandwidth available in the prayer tubes? When a football player gets down on one knee to pray before a play, has he diverted prayer effectiveness away from the mother whose child is dying of dysentery? If everyone stopped praying for useless, stupid shit right this moment and only prayed to end sickness, famine, and war, would it all come to an end right then and there?

Suppose any of that were possible? 

And suppose that the character of Jesus will never make an appearance until the only prayer is selfless prayer.

Of course I'm just making it all up as a hypothetical. But say I forwarded it to Pat Robertson, and he liked the idea (it doesn't benefit him so I doubt he would) and evangelized it tomorrow.
Millions of people would instantly reboot their concept of prayer and do it Pat's way.

Without evidence. Without reason.


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 1, 2010)

The thing that sucks about being an atheist.. is you can't argue with faith.

Nuts will be nuts.


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## Babs34 (Jan 2, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> SHEESH! I'm not even high, and I'm rambling like crazy today!
> *LOL, today is the first day I've laid off the smoke in um.....a REALLY long time, so forgive my rambling--my mind's all over the place. I think I should pause for a moment to toke:::::::::::*
> *One toke later "helped."*
> 
> ...


----------



## Babs34 (Jan 2, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> The thing that sucks about being an atheist.. is you can't argue with faith.
> 
> Nuts will be nuts.


 *...and what does that say when all men have them? *


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## Babs34 (Jan 2, 2010)

Kushkittens said:


> forcing things down peoples throats =religion.


 *forcing things down peoples throats=*
*control freaks!*
*No religion necessitated there.*


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## Babs34 (Jan 2, 2010)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Humanisty has been exceedingly intelligent for an exceedingly long time In Our Minds and has done very well with the tools at hand.
> Don't be fooled for a second that native savages are less human than you.
> We just have different realities because our perceptions are different.
> 
> Christianity is older than the modern bible books.


 *You mean to say I was ever wrong? *


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 2, 2010)

*"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Benjamin Franklin 

Religion is for the weak minded.. it's sad really. I don't need an invisible friend. 
*


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## Babs34 (Jan 2, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Maybe Babs can tell us the age at which it is appropriate to tell a child that they are going to be tortured for eternity if they don't love Jesus?


 *Your demented views are not recognized by me.*


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## Babs34 (Jan 2, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> It's not unreasonable to want those who wish to impose their worldview on EVERYONE to cease trying to do so.
> *So, you handle this how? By killing and fighting a "people" who have no ill-will towards you or by intelligently addressing those who are adamant on making you minced meat?*
> *Only one logical choice there as I see it.*
> 
> ...


----------



## Babs34 (Jan 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Babs, you get crazier and crazier each post! Now it's to the point of incoherent giberish...
> *Speaking of nuts, here we go again.*
> I'll make it easy for you... (or any other believers reading along who think they might have answers to these questions)
> 
> ...


----------



## Babs34 (Jan 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Exactly! Atheism is the defense. Couldn't agree more.


 *I love reading this response with that avatar---seemingly a muslim with an AK47.*

*Joining the jihad, are you?*


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## Inviolate (Jan 2, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Certainly the best way would be to send a "son" to a remote area of the planet before mass communication is invented, and then have him get killed and nobody records the event for 40 years or so, and then only one story is actually written by the ppl who were never there.
> 
> Oh wait ... that's been done. NVM...
> 
> ...


So besides that there's no other feasible method, seriously?


----------



## Inviolate (Jan 2, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Which god?
> 
> Any scripture with provably false statements can be used in a process of elimination.
> 
> Once we isolate the god who doesn't, and have the parameters which describe the state of that god we go from there.


That makes sense. I defined what I meant by "God" at the beginning of my question, no particular one of the pantheon. 

What parameters can possibly describe a God that isn't personal/faith based.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 2, 2010)

Inviolate said:


> So besides that there's no other feasible method, seriously?



How can there be..... 3 billion ppl think the way i mentioned before really happened (seriously, they actually think that happened). 

Why be redundant?


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## morgentaler (Jan 2, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *Your demented views are not recognized by me.*


You may not tell your kids they're going to burn in hellfire, but I bet you know people who do.

So, what in your experience is the age when they start telling them that?


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## morgentaler (Jan 2, 2010)

Inviolate said:


> That makes sense. I defined what I meant by "God" at the beginning of my question, no particular one of the pantheon.


The definitions of what the gods are changes according to the religion, so it's not irrelevant. Some are little more than "super heroes".




> What parameters can possibly describe a God that isn't personal/faith based.


If it's not faith based, then it must be based on evidence. If there's no evidence, then faith.

If there's no evidence, it's really very silly to believe something once you are capable of reasoning things out for yourself.

But how could you use an evidence based argument with people who see Jesus on a piece of grilled cheese sandwich and revere it?

If a person has been indoctrinated into a cult from birth that you must never question the cult, no matter how irrational the claim, unless they somehow break away from that view objectivity will not matter.

When the only evidence for the religion is the religion itself, the individual must be willing to question the religion before they can look at it objectively.

Simple enough exercise: ask a toddler who has never been told about gods where the universe came from.

If gods exist, why do people have to indoctrinate people? Why aren't you born already knowing god?


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## shnkrmn (Jan 2, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> shnkrmn said:
> 
> 
> > It's not unreasonable to want those who wish to impose their worldview on EVERYONE to cease trying to do so.
> ...


----------



## PadawanBater (Jan 2, 2010)

> -What is the strongest secular (outside the bible) evidence that supports Christianity?
> *Been there, said that. I do so hate to repeat myself*.
> *You didn't absorb "scientific" value case one....move along lil soldier.*


No Babs, you haven't. None of you have. The believers of this forum take the intellectually lazy route *every time.* Up and down the threads I see people claim "well, you can't _disprove _God doesn't exist..." <-- What kind of mentally challenged person holds a position like that?? Your side has *never proved *the existence of any god. If you think you have, you don't understand what the word "prove" means. A great quote I saw yesterday to illustrate this point; "There's plenty of evidence for the existence of God *you just have to want to seee it*". See, people claiming stupid shit like that don't actually care what reality is, because to them, if you just "want to see it" bad enough, it&#8217;ll happen, which isn&#8217;t science, or reality, at all. 

There&#8217;s nothing that provides any more insight into the bullshit you believe in than the bible. Have fun with that circle-jerk logic fest.



> -Do you acknowledge evolution is how huma.beings got here? That our ancestors were once sea dwelling animals, then the descendants of them developed the tools and abilities neccessary to walk and survive on land... gills to lungs and fins to feet/wrists/ankles, and such, then later mammals emerged, then primates, then us? Or do you think everything that currently exists now has always existed in it's present form, and all animals have existed alongside eachother (cows with veloceraptors, buffalo with sabertooth tigers, etc...) since creation?
> *Rhetorical question. Why don't you comprehend common English?*
> *<<<I do not take the Bible literally, nor do I proclaim to be the genius of the universe who will rain all answers on Lil P.*
> *P, you could spend your entire life attempting to prove "whatever it is you wish to prove".......life just keeps happening. Why not just roll with it and relax a little? No scientist in your lifetime (or ever for that matter) is going to disprove God. Why don't you get that? There will ALWAYS be something bigger than you in every sense of the word. The answers are endless. No matter how long science (as "you" see it) exists, there will ALWAYS be the next "challenge." We just don't get to have all the answers....no matter what the advancements.*


See what I mean with this bullshit... "No scientist in your lifetime is going to *disprove *God." <-- refer back to my response to the first reply for my take on that... 
 
Scientific advancement and progression is the entire reason I like the shit so much. The way we make things better through science, the way we won&#8217;t ever have all the answers, which means there will always be something to pursue is what appeals to me so much. Nobody who knows anything about science is looking for the end. What a stupid accusation to make. 


> -What have you got to say about DNA and it's ability to tell us about the past?
> *Yawn Lil P....coming from the boy whose god is science, and claims science NOT responsible for finding the cure to disease.......you wish to discuss DNA?*
> *Get back to me when you grow up. (and have expertise as a geneticist)*


Again with this same shit. Months later and you still haven&#8217;t figured out what I meant. 

When I made that comment about your illness, it was in regards to how you hold some personal grudge against *SCIENCE* as a whole because there is no cure for whatever you suffer from (even though there are probably treatments that you enjoy *because of *science, ironic and hypocritical). I pointed out how that was stupid, and you can&#8217;t hold *SCIENCE* responsible for _not finding _a cure for whatever you have. That&#8217;s it. 

You just dodge the question because you don&#8217;t have any idea what the hell I&#8217;m even talking about. DNA - Here, go do some studying; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mitochondrial_genetics


> -Is all life related or not?
> *Asking questions is wonderful, repeating them to those who do not have the answers is childish. But guess what Lil p?*
> *You have fewer answers than I.*


lmfao, I seriously doubt that claim Babs. 


> -Can someone be moral without believing in a god?
> *Repetitive, but I'll indulge......yeap, they sure can. (but not when their prime goal in life is to downplay Christians)*


I&#8217;m more moral than you and your imaginary friend.

For everyone else, here&#8217;s another great vid from Dusty, enjoy! (you seriously don&#8217;t wanna miss these, this guy has some great stuff to say!)

[youtube]6mjQL2Hh6mw[/youtube]


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## growwwww (Jan 2, 2010)

Cult of dusty is too good. Hes a true legend.

Im sure some of you have seen this,

or even checked out TED, brilliant site.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/richard_dawkins_on_militant_atheism.html

Richard Dawkin, doesnt preach athiesm here, he preaches militant athiesm 

i love it, ha.


----------



## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> No Babs, you haven't. None of you have. The believers of this forum take the intellectually lazy route *every time.* Up and down the threads I see people claim "well, you can't _disprove _God doesn't exist..." <-- What kind of mentally challenged person holds a position like that?? Your side has *never proved *the existence of any god. If you think you have, you don't understand what the word "prove" means. A great quote I saw yesterday to illustrate this point; "There's plenty of evidence for the existence of God *you just have to want to seee it*". See, people claiming stupid shit like that don't actually care what reality is, because to them, if you just "want to see it" bad enough, it&#8217;ll happen, which isn&#8217;t science, or reality, at all.
> 
> There&#8217;s nothing that provides any more insight into the bullshit you believe in than the bible. Have fun with that circle-jerk logic fest.
> 
> ...


I don't know if there is or isn't a god. I tend to believe in something greater than myself, call it what you want. This heated debate about whether god exists or not is seriously comical. A lot of you atheists are as militant in your views as some christians or muslims I know. It seems to me that both sides tend to be somewhat closed minded. One side says "There is a god and all those who don't believe are damned to an eternity of torment and anguish." The other side says "There is no god and anybody who believes in one must be a simple minded savage." I was raised into a secular family who believes in god and goes to church on occasion. They aren't fanatics or zealots by a long shot. I decided long ago that I would make up my own mind about what I believe. I think, like most of you atheists, that organized religion is full of hucksters and snake oil salesmen. I don't subscribe to one. But I feel like there is an intelligence that exists which we mere mortals cannot perceive. Not only can't we perceive it we can't even imagine it. I don't think it judges or hates. I believe that it just "IS". Call me new age or an existentialist or what the hell ever. Our arrogance as a species is constantly getting us into trouble and I try to keep my ego in check by reminding myself that god may or may not exist. We just don't know. Faith is a very abstract concept for humans. Religion is the opiate of the masses, and if it gives an individual comfort I see no problem with it. When anything, be it government or religion, tries to impose it's will through force.......it's a bad thing. Religion is a mask which some people hide behind in order to further some sort of agenda. We all have agendas.


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## growwwww (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I don't know if there is or isn't a god. I tend to believe in something greater than myself, call it what you want. This heated debate about whether god exists or not is seriously comical. A lot of you atheists are as militant in your views as some christians or muslims I know. It seems to me that both sides tend to be somewhat closed minded. One side says "There is a god and all those who don't believe are damned to an eternity of torment and anguish." The other side says "There is no god and anybody who believes in one must be a simple minded savage." I was raised into a secular family who believes in god and goes to church on occasion. They aren't fanatics or zealots by a long shot. I decided long ago that I would make up my own mind about what I believe. I think, like most of you atheists, that organized religion is full of hucksters and snake oil salesmen. I don't subscribe to one. But I feel like there is an intelligence that exists which we mere mortals cannot perceive. Not only can we perceive it we can't even imagine it. I don't think it judges or hates. I believe that it just "IS". Call me new age or an existentialist or what the hell ever. Our arrogance as a species is constantly getting us into trouble and I try to keep my ego in check by reminding myself that god may or may not exist. We just don't know. Faith is a very abstract concept for humans. Religion is the opiate of the masses, and if it gives an individual comfort I see no problem with it. When anything, be it government or religion, tries to impose it's will through force.......it's a bad thing. Religion is a mask which some people hide behind in order to further some sort of agenda. We all have agendas.


I fucking well hope the athiests are as militant as the christians and whatever - dont really understand that, and if i do, i dont think its a problem.

Think about what you are actually saying though, about the closed/open minded thing. Think and look up the "militant" atheists. Tell me are they close minded...really :S
Dont just look at shit initially, but pick up a few books of Dan Dennett, Douglas Adams, Aldous Huxley, Richard Dawkins....Tell me they are as close minded at the Miliant Christians/Jews/Islamic people. Clearly represent this to me, i truly dont understand.

Peace


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## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

growwwww said:


> I fucking well hope the athiests are as militant as the christians and whatever - dont really understand that, and if i do, i dont think its a problem.
> 
> Think about what you are actually saying though, about the closed/open minded thing. Think and look up the "militant" atheists. Tell me are they close minded...really :S
> Dont just look at shit initially, but pick up a few books of Dan Dennett, Douglas Adams, Aldous Huxley, Richard Dawkins....Tell me they are as close minded at the Miliant Christians/Jews/Islamic people. Clearly represent this to me, i truly dont understand.
> ...


.......and you probably never will.


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## morgentaler (Jan 2, 2010)

The argument here, however much it bounces around, isn't "Is there a god?". 

It's "Why do you continue to worship/believe/state-as-truth X religion/deity without no supporting evidence" which is countered by "Why do we need any evidence. As long as I believe it, it's true."

The continued insistence that god(s) are real is backed by a religious text and "the evidence is out there if you just look for it". If the evidence is there, why isn't anyone coming forward with it? The lack of comprehension of the word 'evidence' seems to be a stumbling block for some people. eg. "If you just open up your heart God shows himself to you." is not uncommon as 'proof' or 'evidence' for a deity.

If I tell you that flying cars are real, will you accept my claim that "If you just open up your heart they will show themselves to you?"

Didn't think so


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## growwwww (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> .......and you probably never will.


I use to be in a faith school and use to admire the religious people. We use to go on trips to really cool places and whatever. Until, my fascination with science/drugs came along. My own personal research debunked and de-bullshitted most of what these people who i thought were really cool had to say. WHy would you say never? its more like unlikely...In probable...
You are shiftily quoting shit here...I think its the first chapter in Richard Dawkins book, God Delussion, Which talks about how quotes are used so sneakily and misleading. It aint no fun to be done to


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## morgentaler (Jan 2, 2010)

It doesn't hurt to get faith-based opponents a little angry/worked-up too.
If they actually get mad enough to start looking for ammo to support their beliefs, they're thinking. When you're operating on the power of faith alone, you're no longer thinking. You're just absorbing what someone else has dictated to you.

Faith is why you end up with chain letters in your inbox from relatives who want you to make money off Bill Gates by forwarding email.

It's also why YouTube videos on how to make water or vegetables glow in the dark with common things like sugar and vinegar are popular.
People just see it and go "Wow! They told me it was real and now I have to show everyone!"
And then their 10 year old kid repeats the experiment and it doesn't work. Multiple times. Double checking the directions.
So, should they hold to their faith that the glow in the dark tomato was true and their kid is a moron? Or should they consider the fact that their child sought empirical knowledge of the claim that was presented and found it to be false?

Of course the slick religions add the caveat: "If you question us, we will make you suffer in this life or the next."

Wait till the guy who posted the tomato video finds that 10 year old and kicks his ass.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I don't know if there is or isn't a god. I tend to believe in something greater than myself, call it what you want. This heated debate about whether god exists or not is seriously comical. A lot of you atheists are as militant in your views as some christians or muslims I know. It seems to me that both sides tend to be somewhat closed minded. One side says "There is a god and all those who don't believe are damned to an eternity of torment and anguish." The other side says "There is no god and anybody who believes in one must be a simple minded savage." I was raised into a secular family who believes in god and goes to church on occasion. They aren't fanatics or zealots by a long shot. I decided long ago that I would make up my own mind about what I believe. I think, like most of you atheists, that organized religion is full of hucksters and snake oil salesmen. I don't subscribe to one. But I feel like there is an intelligence that exists which we mere mortals cannot perceive. Not only can't we perceive it we can't even imagine it. I don't think it judges or hates. I believe that it just "IS". Call me new age or an existentialist or what the hell ever. Our arrogance as a species is constantly getting us into trouble and I try to keep my ego in check by reminding myself that god may or may not exist. We just don't know. Faith is a very abstract concept for humans. Religion is the opiate of the masses, and if it gives an individual comfort I see no problem with it. When anything, be it government or religion, tries to impose it's will through force.......it's a bad thing. Religion is a mask which some people hide behind in order to further some sort of agenda. We all have agendas.


"Militant Atheism" is the raction to all the "Militant Belief" the past 20 centuries. Except we're not going around killing people for believing in imaginary friends. If we've put up with believers shit for that long, what makes you think opposition to this totally non violent atheist revolution that's emerged at the beginning of the 21st century (consequently around the same time widespread networking sites, ie, INFORMATION SHARING sites were primarily established) is justified? Believe what you want, like I've always said, it's when those beliefs get into my life that I have an issue with. You personally understand this, as the way you've described your specific style of belief is totally fine with me for the most part (we might have an issue if we discussed it further into the scientific arena, but for now it's fine). But this passive form of atheism that's been alive throughout the centuries has failed, I for one am sick of it. And today we have the capability to take it to the national level, and let the masses know it's OK, you don't have to submit to this perverted bullshit anymore. Like I said, this truly is a revolution. 

One thing I did want to point out... "But I feel like there is an intelligence that exists which we mere mortals cannot perceive. Not only can't we perceive it we can't even imagine it." - you admit you can't perceive it, imagine it, see it, measure it, understand it, feel it, smell it, nothing... so what is the value in believing it exists?


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## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

growwwww said:


> I use to be in a faith school and use to admire the religious people. We use to go on trips to really cool places and whatever. Until, my fascination with science/drugs came along. My own personal research debunked and de-bullshitted most of what these people who i thought were really cool had to say. WHy would you say never? its more like unlikely...In probable...
> You are shiftily quoting shit here...I think its the first chapter in Richard Dawkins book, God Delussion, Which talks about how quotes are used so sneakily and misleading. It aint no fun to be done to


I qualified my statement with the word Probably. Religion or a lack thereof has to be a personal thing. No one can tell you what you should or shouldn't believe. They may try but in reality it has to come from within. If you don't believe in god that's cool with me. Remember, I said I am not religious. I absolutely understand the thinking behind atheism and it's definitely more solid to the rational person than religion is. We aren't rational creatures however. I believe what I believe because I've been around long enough to formulate my own opinion. And at the end of the day that's all it is. The thing I take issue with is the lack of respect for each others position. I have many atheist friends whom I respect and admire deeply. I personally believe they are wrong but it's all good. Maybe I'm wrong. I also have many religious friends whom I respect and admire deeply. They know where I stand and they don't try to push me. Faith is not rational. It doesn't adhere to any science or logic. It is a profound feeling that one has which can't be explained or quantified. But it should be respected. And the lack of faith (although I believe that even with a lack of faith there is faith, faith that one is correct in their opinion) should be respected as well. And badmouth religion all you want there are good things that come from it. It ain't all crusades and jihad.


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## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> "Militant Atheism" is the raction to all the "Militant Belief" the past 20 centuries. Except we're not going around killing people for believing in imaginary friends. If we've put up with believers shit for that long, what makes you think opposition to this totally non violent atheist revolution that's emerged at the beginning of the 21st century (consequently around the same time widespread networking sites, ie, INFORMATION SHARING sites were primarily established) is justified? Believe what you want, like I've always said, it's when those beliefs get into my life that I have an issue with. You personally understand this, as the way you've described your specific style of belief is totally fine with me for the most part (we might have an issue if we discussed it further into the scientific arena, but for now it's fine). But this passive form of atheism that's been alive throughout the centuries has failed, I for one am sick of it. And today we have the capability to take it to the national level, and let the masses know it's OK, you don't have to submit to this perverted bullshit anymore. Like I said, this truly is a revolution.
> 
> One thing I did want to point out... "But I feel like there is an intelligence that exists which we mere mortals cannot perceive. Not only can't we perceive it we can't even imagine it." - you admit you can't perceive it, imagine it, see it, measure it, understand it, feel it, smell it, nothing... so what is the value in believing it exists?


I explained in my previous post that there is no value, except the understanding of our place in the universe, which I believe we all strive to understand in one way or another.


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## growwwww (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I explained in my previous post that there is no value, except the understanding of our place in the universe, which I believe we all strive to understand in one way or another.


Aye yes sir, so could one not say - letting go of the shit with virtually no proof. Is just a tiny step to what we as you say, all strive to understand, placement in the "universe" ?


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## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Aye yes sir, so could one not say - letting go of the shit with virtually no proof. Is just a tiny step to what we as you say, all strive to understand, placement in the "universe" ?


I believe that however you arrive at transcendece, a greater peace, and a greater understanding of your place in the universe is the correct way. I don't see it in black and white. I don't believe there is a wrong or right way.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> But it should be respected.


Aww man, I wholeheartedly disagree with that.

Faith should never be respected.


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## morgentaler (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I believe that however you arrive at transcendece, a greater peace, and a greater understanding of your place in the universe is the correct way. I don't see it in black and white. I don't believe there is a wrong or right way.


Well it's simple. If it gets you there it's the "right way".

If it doesn't...


Of course, you assume that people have a place in the universe to understand....


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## morgentaler (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> It is a profound feeling that one has which can't be explained or quantified. But it should be respected.


Have I ever welcomed you to the chaos? Not sure if I ever did. Welcome  I'm the bastard.

People have faith that if you rape a 10 year old virgin it will cure AIDS.

Do I respect that faith?

Others have faith that Jesus will come to the world after it is sunk into a world wide conflict, up to and including nuclear war. Some of those people are politicians.

Should I respect that faith?

A woman starved her children because she had faith that god would magically provide food to feed them.

Can't say that I respect any of those.


Could you provide me with the guidelines for distinguishing faith based beliefs and mental illness?


edit: And it scares me that any of the above views could be held by people deciding environmental and foreign policy, or in any way influencing the way children in our schools treat gay people, immigrants, etc. At least if someone is a racist without faith you can rip their argument to shreds.


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## growwwww (Jan 2, 2010)

Morgen says it like it is.

And, Doc, i donno about you,
but i think sexism is pretty wrong, i think homophobia is pretty wrong and i also think conditioning kids into shit when they are young is also pretty fucking wrong.

And i tell you what, ive met people who have actually given talks about why its so important to preach religion and to target kids at a young age. Unfourtantely these people are in schools as it happens.

Sad times.


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 2, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Morgen says it like it is.
> 
> And, Doc, i donno about you,
> but i think sexism is pretty wrong, i think homophobia is pretty wrong and i also think conditioning kids into shit when they are young is also pretty fucking wrong.
> ...


Watch the docmmentary "Jesus Camp". You can see the fear the childrens eyes ... its freaky as shit.


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## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Aww man, I wholeheartedly disagree with that.
> 
> Faith should never be respected.


If that's what you believe then I guess that makes you better than christians, muslims, or jews???? You have a right to your own opinion and I respect it.........I just don't agree with it.



morgentaler said:


> Well it's simple. If it gets you there it's the "right way".
> 
> If it doesn't...
> 
> ...


Maybe we do, maybe we don't, I can't tell you that with any certainty one way or the other. I freely admit this.



morgentaler said:


> Have I ever welcomed you to the chaos? Not sure if I ever did. Welcome  I'm the bastard.
> 
> People have faith that if you rape a 10 year old virgin it will cure AIDS.
> 
> ...


Let's be reasonable, nobody said to respect these idiots who do dumb shit in the name of religion or government or whatever.



growwwww said:


> Morgen says it like it is.
> 
> And, Doc, i donno about you,
> but i think sexism is pretty wrong, i think homophobia is pretty wrong and i also think conditioning kids into shit when they are young is also pretty fucking wrong.
> ...


I think those things are wrong too. Some religious people do and some don't. You assume that every religous person is some bible thumping zealot with a crucifix in one hand and their trusty bible in the other. They aren't. Why do you paint all religion with such a bleak brush? I think that if a person is above what it is they claim to be above, they need to act it. Don't go throwing stones at the other just because of some bad experiences or whatever.


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## growwwww (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> If that's what you believe then I guess that makes you better than christians, muslims, or jews???? You have a right to your own opinion and I respect it.........I just don't agree with it.
> 
> Maybe we do, maybe we don't, I can't tell you that with any certainty one way or the other. I freely admit this.
> 
> ...


Ive got nothing against nice people, just dont like religious people...RELIGIOUS.

Also about the place in the universe,

Pat Condell, Internet comedian/ Athiest puts it so fucking right.

I quote...

Id say the purpose of life is joy in the present moment, and anyone who tells you different is a lying conniving asshole. 


Im out ladies and gentleman.

Peace


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## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Ive got nothing against nice people, just dont like religious people...RELIGIOUS.
> 
> Also about the place in the universe,
> 
> ...


I don't believe it's that simple. Maybe it is but I just have a problem with the fact that a giant explosion happened a really, really long time ago and somehow we have this perfect little habitat where everything is in such delicate balance. It's probably my tiny brain but I believe in something far greater than us or what we can imagine. I kind of stopped trying a long time ago. It's an exercise in futility. I've been in a lot of really hairy situations too and I have prayed even though I don't really know if it goes unheard. It gave me great comfort and peace and perhaps is an analgesic to the harsh realities of death and it's finality.


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## morgentaler (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Let's be reasonable, nobody said to respect these idiots who do dumb shit in the name of religion or government or whatever.


Reasonable. That's the key word.

Since it has been reported that 40% of US citizens believe in item number 2, and hundreds of thousands at least believe in item number 1, does that mean I should respect their beliefs? Because they have numbers?

Should we created a table and mark the threshold at which we start respecting beliefs which are based on nothing?

How about:
1 million is a religion.
100,000 is a cult.
100 is a mass hallucination.
1 is mental illness.


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## morgentaler (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I don't believe it's that simple. Maybe it is but I just have a problem with the fact that a giant explosion happened a really, really long time ago and somehow we have this perfect little habitat where everything is in such delicate balance.


Perfect?
You mean this habitat that regularly snuffs out the inhabitants?
An evolutionary stable system will fall into equilibrium but when something pushes it out of equilibrium, whether it's a bad winter or a texas sized rock falling out of the sky, it's chaotic until it falls back into balance.
Earth didn't change for us, we changed for earth. And if something changes our environment too quickly for us to adapt, we'll be history too.




> It's probably my tiny brain but I believe in something far greater than us or what we can imagine. I kind of stopped trying a long time ago. It's an exercise in futility. I've been in a lot of really hairy situations too and I have prayed even though I don't really know if it goes unheard. It gave me great comfort and peace and perhaps is an analgesic to the harsh realities of death and it's finality.


Just start a list of things you pray for, and see how many actually come true.
And look at the list rationally. If you pray to pass a test and you spend two weeks studying for it, it's not a huge leap to figure out that if you knew the answers to the questions and passed that it was your doing.

If you wrote: "The monkey sniffed it's finger" for all your answers and still passed, you can probably attribute that to prayer, or a teacher under the influence of powerful drugs.


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## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Reasonable. That's the key word.
> 
> Since it has been reported that 40% of US citizens believe in item number 2, and hundreds of thousands at least believe in item number 1, does that mean I should respect their beliefs? Because they have numbers?
> 
> ...


We are fundamentally flawed and perhaps a little too easily influenced. We should all respect one another because regardless of what you or anybody believes life is precious. I've been around long enough to have learned this. Whether a gift from a benevolent entity or freak accident life is precious and everybody matters. To you these beliefs may be based on nothing but my life experiences tell me otherwise. Many are indoctrinated and have blindly accepted what they've been told. If this molds their life in a positive way and they have respect for their fellow man then it's a good thing. Perhaps one day you will see things differently. No one can say for sure what the future holds, not even those psychic hotline goons.


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## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Perfect?
> You mean this habitat that regularly snuffs out the inhabitants?
> An evolutionary stable system will fall into equilibrium but when something pushes it out of equilibrium, whether it's a bad winter or a texas sized rock falling out of the sky, it's chaotic until it falls back into balance.
> Earth didn't change for us, we changed for earth. And if something changes our environment too quickly for us to adapt, we'll be history too.
> ...


I can count on one hand the number of things I've prayed for and they've all come true or we wouldn't be having this deelightful conversation. I like your analogies. Things have happened to the earth in the past but here we sit......You said it yourself that it is easily put off balance but it does go back into balance. I don't recall me or anybody else here saying anything about it being a shangri-la. When one looks at it from a scientific point of view we see how connected everything is. How fucking ridiculous is it that we are here by accident? How fucking ridiculous is it that we're here by design? It's ridiculous to me no matter how you slice it.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I can count on one hand the number of things I've prayed for and they've all come true or we wouldn't be having this deelightful conversation. I like your analogies. Things have happened to the earth in the past but here we sit......You said it yourself that it is easily put off balance but it does go back into balance. I don't recall me or anybody else here saying anything about it being a shangri-la. When one looks at it from a scientific point of view we see how connected everything is. How fucking ridiculous is it that we are here by accident? How fucking ridiculous is it that we're here by design. It's ridiculous to me no matter how you slice it.


 
That's the problem... we are not here by accident or by design.

We are here as a result of natural processes that took place over 13 billion years. None of it is random. Random entails no direction. But I for one would call life a direction, and an acheivable goal, even for a non-conscious entity like our universe. But take it back even further, consider the evolutionary process - natural selection - on a universal level... Those universes with H and He that developed out of their own innitial "big bang" type events already set the course for life to arise. Those that don't, die out. Stars form, heavier elements form, stars explode and send those elements out into the universe to become you and me. All of it is connected, none of this process is random. It's the course reality as we've witnessed it takes. Claiming it's random is illogical until we witness other universes that don't apply the same rules to their own realities.


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## doc111 (Jan 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> That's the problem... we are not here by accident or by design.
> 
> We are here as a result of natural processes that took place over 13 billion years. None of it is random. Random entails no direction. But I for one would call life a direction, and an acheivable goal, even for a non-conscious entity like our universe. But take it back even further, consider the evolutionary process - natural selection - on a universal level... Those universes with H and He that developed out of their own innitial "big bang" type events already set the course for life to arise. Those that don't, die out. Stars form, heavier elements form, stars explode and send those elements out into the universe to become you and me. All of it is connected, none of this process is random. It's the course reality as we've witnessed it takes. Claiming it's random is illogical until we witness other universes that don't apply the same rules to their own realities.


Who makes the laws of nature? You claim no one. So that pretty much makes this an accident in my book. If an explosion happened 15 billion or some odd years ago and we are here as a result and nothing was behind that explosion, as you claim, then how can our existence not be an accident? Let's take it one further and say that life is very common in the universe and we aren't just freaks of nature as it were, it means we are part of a larger design. Random or orderly? How can it be both?


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## morgentaler (Jan 2, 2010)

And ye shall peeketh behind the curtain and findeth the word.
And the word shall be:

int main void;
int universe rnd(256^&#8734;


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## growwwww (Jan 3, 2010)

doc111 said:


> We are fundamentally flawed and perhaps a little too easily influenced. We should all respect one another because regardless of what you or anybody believes life is precious. I've been around long enough to have learned this. Whether a gift from a benevolent entity or freak accident life is precious and everybody matters. To you these beliefs may be based on nothing but my life experiences tell me otherwise. Many are indoctrinated and have blindly accepted what they've been told. If this molds their life in a positive way and they have respect for their fellow man then it's a good thing. Perhaps one day you will see things differently. No one can say for sure what the future holds, not even those psychic hotline goons.


Exactly, lifes to precious.

Lets cut the bullshit,

start doing logical things!

Doc, please!!! pick up Richard Dawkins God Dellusion. You say some interesting stuff, he so well would carve your words and make you understand a few of these things, like the idea of someone being positvely effected by religion, why these are bad thing. The book is very basic and compact, easy read aswell.


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## growwwww (Jan 3, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Who makes the laws of nature? You claim no one. So that pretty much makes this an accident in my book. If an explosion happened 15 billion or some odd years ago and we are here as a result and nothing was behind that explosion, as you claim, then how can our existence not be an accident? Let's take it one further and say that life is very common in the universe and we aren't just freaks of nature as it were, it means we are part of a larger design. Random or orderly? How can it be both?


C'mon lets not be like that, the maker of the laws of nature, even athiests are inclined to accept that they wont know what this is, but, got nothing to do with the idea of a " personal god " etc... 
They dont give a shit, because they think theres more factual studies that can be done, things like evolutionary science etc... Rather than making bullshit stories about splitting seas and miracles and shit.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_dennett_s_response_to_rick_warren.html

watch that aswell

peace


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## doc111 (Jan 3, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Exactly, lifes to precious.
> 
> Lets cut the bullshit,
> 
> ...


Logic breaks down quickly amongst illogical beings. How nice would the world be if everyone behaved logically? We all agree that religion poisons the weak minded legions of the world but what about the silent majority? The religious folk who never bother or cause harm to anyone. Religion may be detrimental to some but so is government, and heroin, and trans-fat, and cigarettes, and alcohol..........You could take religion out of the equation and it wouldn't change humanity much. It may even make things worse. Who knows how many people refrain from murdering someone else because they are taught that it's morally wrong? I'm simplifying things but I think you get my point.


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## doc111 (Jan 3, 2010)

growwwww said:


> C'mon lets not be like that, the maker of the laws of nature, even athiests are inclined to accept that they wont know what this is, but, got nothing to do with the idea of a " personal god " etc...
> They dont give a shit, because they think theres more factual studies that can be done, things like evolutionary science etc... Rather than making bullshit stories about splitting seas and miracles and shit.
> http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_dennett_s_response_to_rick_warren.html
> 
> ...


You keep talking to me as if I'm religious.

I don't know if any of that stuff happened or not............I wasn't around.


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## growwwww (Jan 3, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Logic breaks down quickly amongst illogical beings. How nice would the world be if everyone behaved logically? We all agree that religion poisons the weak minded legions of the world but what about the silent majority? The religious folk who never bother or cause harm to anyone. Religion may be detrimental to some but so is government, and heroin, and trans-fat, and cigarettes, and alcohol..........You could take religion out of the equation and it wouldn't change humanity much. It may even make things worse. Who knows how many people refrain from murdering someone else because they are taught that it's morally wrong? I'm simplifying things but I think you get my point.


No im sorry i really dont.
Logic, what is it? is that what you are talking about?
Is there any absolute morality? Is that what you are talking about.
Im sorry but you have just confused me.
Aswell, i think logic is there because of what seems illogical, rather than the illogical because of logic.
That talk kinda goes into it. I think i get what you are saying, we are running around the same point i think.
I just maybe think ur trying to be all wah wah wah im sitting on the fence lalala when i think really you may be just on one side...


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## growwwww (Jan 3, 2010)

doc111 said:


> You keep talking to me as if I'm religious.
> 
> I don't know if any of that stuff happened or not............I wasn't around.


I thought you were religious :/ or atleast not athiest, You said you dont know whether theres a personal god or not. No?? is that not what we are going on about, the idea some call " agnosticism "


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## CrackerJax (Jan 3, 2010)

The larger the supply of a commodity, the less its value.

There's no shortage of life on Earth. And that's fits the above axiom nicely.

Pretty words, but the reality is much more vicious. Life is abundant, and cheap.


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## doc111 (Jan 3, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Exactly, lifes to precious.
> 
> Lets cut the bullshit,
> 
> ...


You said "start doing logical things" and I said "logic breaks down quickly amongst illogical beings" meaning, we humans are not logical creatures. 



growwwww said:


> No im sorry i really dont.
> Logic, what is it? is that what you are talking about?
> Is there any absolute morality? Is that what you are talking about.
> Im sorry but you have just confused me.
> ...


I admit I am on the fence. I don't know if go exists or not. Agnostic is the word I think. I don't believe this sort of thing can be proven one way or the other. That's the conundrum. Nobody really knows whether we have a creator or not. I feel personally that we were created by a supreme being which has yet to reveal itself to us. Perhaps it never will. Do I think that some rapture will happen and the believers will be taken to heaven while the damned remain here in torment? No. Do I believe much of the symbolism in the bible or other religious text? No. I stated before that I have my own personal reasons for believing what I believe. I'm not going to change your views and it's doubtful that you will change mine. Faith is a personal thing which doesn't have anything to do with logic.


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## growwwww (Jan 3, 2010)

doc111 said:


> You said "start doing logical things" and I said "logic breaks down quickly amongst illogical beings" meaning, we humans are not logical creatures.
> 
> I admit I am on the fence. I don't know if go exists or not. Agnostic is the word I think. I don't believe this sort of thing can be proven one way or the other. That's the conundrum. Nobody really knows whether we have a creator or not. I feel personally that we were created by a supreme being which has yet to reveal itself to us. Perhaps it never will. Do I think that some rapture will happen and the believers will be taken to heaven while the damned remain here in torment? No. Do I believe much of the symbolism in the bible or other religious text? No. I stated before that I have my own personal reasons for believing what I believe. I'm not going to change your views and it's doubtful that you will change mine. Faith is a personal thing which doesn't have anything to do with logic.


Faith can suck my bollocks.

Peace


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## doc111 (Jan 3, 2010)

growwwww said:


> I thought you were religious :/ or atleast not athiest, You said you dont know whether theres a personal god or not. No?? is that not what we are going on about, the idea some call " agnosticism "


I address this in the above post (I was typing my response before I saw this post). No I am not atheist, and no I am not religious. I guess that makes me agnostic.


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## doc111 (Jan 3, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Faith can suck my bollocks.
> 
> Peace


See, this is what I'm talking about in regards to respect. Some of us have none yet we expect others to respect us. And what happened to the intelligent conversation we were having? "Suck my bollocks"? Really?


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## growwwww (Jan 3, 2010)

Dan Denette owns in that speech.
The critique of purpose driven life, owns.


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## growwwww (Jan 3, 2010)

Respect, defiinition has to be clear, its something that is seen as different throughout. Im not hating nice people 
and i said faith can suck my bollocks. Not you or anyoneelse. Faith, and obiviously i didint mean literally, however this one girl i met whos name was faith...wehay having a laugh matey!!!!!


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## doc111 (Jan 3, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Respect, defiinition has to be clear, its something that is seen as different throughout. Im not hating nice people
> and i said faith can suck my bollocks. Not you or anyoneelse. Faith, and obiviously i didint mean literally, however this one girl i met whos name was faith...wehay having a laugh matey!!!!!


I knew a Faith once. She was a stripper and believe me I had it in her! lol!


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## RoundTree (Jan 3, 2010)

So I'm in heaven trying to figure out which stack there gonna stuff us atheists into.....

DON'T worry we will be in the back polishing halos


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## morgentaler (Jan 3, 2010)

Now with audio! 
[youtube]DE9x2i8TX5I[/youtube]


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## growwwww (Jan 4, 2010)

Just to throw this thought out here,

and to maybe rive up a discussion.
But do you guys think that the people who claim themselves athiest, out of these. That its mostly a male dominated catagorie??

I dont know if there is data on this, or anything. or reasoning.

My based on little prediction, is that women generally careless anyway, whether its religion or no religion. I know my mother is like that, she really doesnt give a shit?

What do you guys think? women athiests a-large? or what?


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## CrackerJax (Jan 4, 2010)

G*D would be the ultimate SugahDaddy ...








It's an interesting question. I'm not aware of a gender breakdown study, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's been done.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 4, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Just to throw this thought out here,
> 
> and to maybe rive up a discussion.
> But do you guys think that the people who claim themselves athiest, out of these. That its mostly a male dominated catagorie??
> ...


I'd say the ratio is probably 2/4, but I've seen plenty of female atheists too.


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 4, 2010)

I cantt say I know ANY women atheist. Of all my lady friends, there are only a few that are even on the fence about it. However, most of my guy friends are atheist. Not to be sexist here, but I feel men typically have more logic


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## morgentaler (Jan 4, 2010)

I know women atheists. But here in Canada people are a lot more likely to admit to being atheist because you don't (usually) get death threats at two in 
the morning or in email for not loving Jesus, so it's safer to be out.

Religion is used as a way to dominate women by design though. Sex, reproduction, what they can wear, who they can associate and go with. Religions love to dictate those things to women from a very young age. It might be harder for some to escape in the more religious areas.


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## doc111 (Jan 4, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> I know women atheists. But here in Canada people are a lot more likely to admit to being atheist because you don't (usually) get death threats at two in
> the morning or in email for not loving Jesus, so it's safer to be out.
> 
> Religion is used as a way to dominate women by design though. Sex, reproduction, what they can wear, who they can associate and go with. Religions love to dictate those things to women from a very young age. It might be harder for some to escape in the more religious areas.


What country is an atheist going to be getting death threats? Besides the obvious middle eastern countries. Some people are very small minded, religious and atheist. Getting rid of religion isn't going to stop ignorance.


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## growwwww (Jan 4, 2010)

Yeah, and because of opression and that kinda stuff i think maybe women would be less likely to "come out" its interesting and yea i agree, i wouldnt be suprised if a study has been done, anybody know of anything me net is playing up so cant really look :s


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## morgentaler (Jan 4, 2010)

doc111 said:


> What country is an atheist going to be getting death threats? Besides the obvious middle eastern countries. Some people are very small minded, religious and atheist. Getting rid of religion isn't going to stop ignorance.


The US. Especially in the south.
There are even some lovely videos on youtube advocating the death penalty for atheists as soon as religion is merged with the state.

And obviously in theocratic countries like several islamic states, atheism or apostasy is punishable by the death penalty.


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## doc111 (Jan 4, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> The US. Especially in the south.
> There are even some lovely videos on youtube advocating the death penalty for atheists as soon as religion is merged with the state.
> 
> And obviously in theocratic countries like several islamic states, atheism or apostasy is punishable by the death penalty.


Sure there some crackpots in the south but to say that the entire south is backwards is not true. As for examples of places where it actually is a crime to be atheist...........well, shocker!


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## CrackerJax (Jan 4, 2010)

doc111 said:


> What country is an atheist going to be getting death threats? Besides the obvious middle eastern countries. Some people are very small minded, religious and atheist. Getting rid of religion isn't going to stop ignorance.


I agree Doc, but it does take away a shield. One less thing to hide behind....


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## doc111 (Jan 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> I agree Doc, but it does take away a shield. One less thing to hide behind....


Religion is so old and deeply ingrained in societies around the world. To dream of a world without religion is just that. The majority of people on the planet believe in some God. It will be a LONG time before people evolve and wise up enough to shed the bonds of religion. And with the negative things going on in the world people aren't about to give up their most precious safety blanket.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 4, 2010)

I don't really expect most of the ppl of the world to wake up one day with the realization that G*D is a made up creature.

Just nudge it back to a tradition so that is not allowed to alter moral or legal codes of society.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 4, 2010)

So we mustn't kick against the pricks, eh?

What about the role of resistance in that long evolution? Which side are you on, Doc?

This just in; Ugandans want to enact death penalty for homosexuals after American evangelists speak.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04uganda.html?sq=uganda&st=cse&scp=2&pagewanted=print

There's no grey area here.


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## morgentaler (Jan 4, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Sure there some crackpots in the south but to say that the entire south is backwards is not true. As for examples of places where it actually is a crime to be atheist...........well, shocker!


You know what's not true? Your statement that I said that about the south.


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## morgentaler (Jan 4, 2010)

Disgusting, isn't it?



shnkrmn said:


> This just in; Ugandans want to enact death penalty for homosexuals after American evangelists speak.


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## Babs34 (Jan 5, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> The US. Especially in the south.
> There are even some lovely videos on youtube advocating the death penalty for atheists as soon as religion is merged with the state.
> 
> And obviously in theocratic countries like several islamic states, atheism or apostasy is punishable by the death penalty.


 *Blah, blah, blah Morgen, OH BS. I have lived most my life in the south.*

*Lay off youtube dude! That crap just doesn't exist as you think! I'd of at least witnessed it with my own eyes, or for that matter, read it somewhere in the headline news. "Holy rollers" are harmless here, just goofy innocent folks in need of odd attention.*

*Please learn to decipher reality from fiction.*

*Care to share with us how Christianity ANYWHERE in America can even be remotely compared to islam---in ANY country?*

*I feel another youtube video coming on.*


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## OregonMeds (Jan 5, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *Care to share with us how Christianity ANYWHERE in America can even be remotely compared to islam---in ANY country?*
> 
> *I feel another youtube video coming on.*


You aren't very observant Babs, there is a perfect example just a couple posts above yours... (The one about Uganda and killing gays. You are responsible for that right now, it's not a good thing in case you don't know that.)

Oh sure lets encourage a backwards nation to think even more backwards, that's progress.


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## Babs34 (Jan 5, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> You aren't very observant Babs, there is a perfect example just a couple posts above yours... (The one about Uganda and killing gays. You are responsible for that right now, it's not a good thing in case you don't know that.)
> 
> Oh sure lets encourage a backwards nation to think even more backwards, that's progress.


 *LMAO Oregon!!!*
*"I" am responsible? Do elaborate.*
*I'm going to bed......it'll take you at least a full nights sleep to think about that one.  Just when I think it not possible, some of you get sadder by the post.*


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## OregonMeds (Jan 5, 2010)

Elaborate? Read the story it's self explanatory and I'm pretty sure you already know what I mean. I didn't mean you as in you personally are responsible, I mean you believers as a group are responsible. 

Palestine is another example... If this country weren't mostly ignorant cristians we wouldn't support the ongoing abuses and continued stealing of palestinians land. Because of this ignorance you all are leading us towards world war three with the Muslims. There are two sides to every story, but if you're brainwashed to never think for yourself, you will go along with anything you are told and many of your leaders support Israel blindly because you believe the bible calls for Israel to exist no matter the cost. 

You will even be so dumb as to think people will just kill themselves over almost nothing when the reality is violence in the world is directly a result of serious oppression and long term ongoing abuses. Everyone is human and everyone is the same but all religions do is divide people and allow them to think they are better than another group, which then allows you to abuse them or at a minimum turn a blind eye to it.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 5, 2010)

The Arabs look upon Israel through religious eyes as well. Take away Islam and Judaism and Christianity, and no one would pay that area any mind at all.


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> So we mustn't kick against the pricks, eh?
> 
> What about the role of resistance in that long evolution? Which side are you on, Doc?
> 
> ...


The Ugandan thing is old news. And if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that the evangelists in question tried to urge the Ugandan govt not to enact such legislation. And I'm not on either side. I'm on the side of respect for one's fellow man, something I don't see you atheists doing at the moment. Religion can be jacked up but you guys keep pointing out all the bad shit and none of the good that religion does. It ain't all damnation and lynching nonbelievers. We're intelligent people here I assume so let's try to be fair. Even if the other side doesn't play fair, it doesn't make you better to sling mud.


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> You know what's not true? Your statement that I said that about the south.


You're obviously a smart guy morgan. I can't believe you are generalizing and saying the whole south is a bunch of whackos bent on killing atheists, homosexuals, blacks, or basically anyone who doesn't believe. I am confident that you know better and are just being inflammatory. That's like me saying that every gay guy is hell bent on raping me. I mean, come on dude! You could go to just about any town in the south, stand up in the town square and shout "I'm an atheist and proud of it". The only response you are likely to get is people saying "good for you".


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## ADLpotter (Jan 5, 2010)

Ok so I read about 20 pages of this thread. Fuck there's some idiots in here and unfortunately they mostly seem to be coming from the religious side. Do your religions a favour and don't act like total fucktards!

I'm not an atheist but fuck, I don't ignore people's statements and then have a blanket answer that makes no sense if they have a truly logical argument. Try to come up with real comebacks people, just think for a second. This thread made me angry I'm gonna go have a wank and burn in hell, it's quite cosy.


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## morgentaler (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> You're obviously a smart guy morgan. I can't believe you are generalizing and saying the whole south is a bunch of whackos bent on killing atheists, homosexuals, blacks, or basically anyone who doesn't believe.


The reason you can't believe it is that I didn't say it and that's the SECOND time you've lied and said I did.

Wow, you're a real piece of work.




> I am confident that you know better and are just being inflammatory. That's like me saying that every gay guy is hell bent on raping me. I mean, come on dude! You could go to just about any town in the south, stand up in the town square and shout "I'm an atheist and proud of it". The only response you are likely to get is people saying "good for you".


This is in Ohio:
http://current.com/items/91446453_death-threats-force-removal-of-atheist-billboard.htm

Ohio could barely be called religious in comparison to Texas.

edit: another one -
http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/ap_death_threat.html

Then we could look to Matt Dillahunty, PZ Myers, Dawkins. All have received death threats for being outspoken atheists.

We have our wackos on both sides of the line. But when you have George Bush Sr. saying he thinks non-christians should be deprived of citizenship, that's some pretty motivational stuff for the people whose education stops at grade 5.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

made it through the holidays without offending my in laws who are catholic , they know i was raised baptist , so we never talk religion which is fine with me even more so now i am atheist


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## PadawanBater (Jan 5, 2010)

I love talking religion! 

What do you guys think about that bit by the way? Most of the atheists I come across are the same, they like talking about it. Most of the believers on the other hand, though there are a few, don't. Especially when you're talking to one of these people face to face, and especially again if they're right around the same age as you or younger because of the whole automatic appeal to authority. But everytime I start talking about it I find most people are agreeing with the things I'm saying, I try to make points about specific parts that make believers realize they really don't know their own religion that well. That's what I try to encourage people to do the most, above anything else, question the shit they claim to believe in. Don't believe what I have to say! Go research and read the bible for yourself, it's all in there, in black and white and it's even been translated in english for your benefit! You're reading the same bible I read...


----------



## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> What country is an atheist going to be getting death threats? Besides the obvious middle eastern countries. Some people are very small minded, religious and atheist. Getting rid of religion isn't going to stop ignorance.


This is what I said...............



morgentaler said:


> The US. Especially in the south.
> There are even some lovely videos on youtube advocating the death penalty for atheists as soon as religion is merged with the state.
> 
> And obviously in theocratic countries like several islamic states, atheism or apostasy is punishable by the death penalty.


This is what you said................



morgentaler said:


> The reason you can't believe it is that I didn't say it and that's the SECOND time you've lied and said I did.
> 
> Wow, you're a real piece of work.
> 
> ...


Now if I'm correct you are Implying that the U.S., especiall the south, is some jerkwater bunch of relilgious hicks waiting to lynch atheists and anybody else they don't agree with. I know I'm putting words in your mouth but what implication were you attempting to make? And you want to show me some examples of threats against atheists. We also have pedophiles, rapists, and serial killers here in the U.S. but to characterize the U.S. as a bunch of crazed psychos running around raping children and cutting heads off would be a bit of hyperbole don't ya think?


----------



## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> I love talking religion!
> 
> What do you guys think about that bit by the way? Most of the atheists I come across are the same, they like talking about it. Most of the believers on the other hand, though there are a few, don't. Especially when you're talking to one of these people face to face, and especially again if they're right around the same age as you or younger because of the whole automatic appeal to authority. But everytime I start talking about it I find most people are agreeing with the things I'm saying, I try to make points about specific parts that make believers realize they really don't know their own religion that well. That's what I try to encourage people to do the most, above anything else, question the shit they claim to believe in. Don't believe what I have to say! Go research and read the bible for yourself, it's all in there, in black and white and it's even been translated in english for your benefit! You're reading the same bible I read...


This is an area where you and I agree. To blindly accept anything as fact is foolish. I think religion needs to be questioned. So do peoples faith. One time I asked my grandmother, who is a devout methodist, why she believed in god? She snapped back at me in the most condescending tone imagineable, "Don't question my faith!" And this from someone I admire and look up to. From that point on I knew that organized religion wasn't for me. I think that questioning things helps one better understand and perhaps even helps to keep people and organizations honest. Which I hope is something most legit organizations and governments should be striving for.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

this is where i split, to preach or subject others to your beliefs is fucked up , you are becoming driven to recruit instead of just enlightened JMO....rob


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## PadawanBater (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Now if I'm correct you are Implying that the U.S., especiall the south, is some jerkwater bunch of relilgious hicks waiting to lynch atheists and anybody else they don't agree with. I know I'm putting words in your mouth but what implication were you attempting to make? And you want to show me some examples of threats against atheists. We also have pedophiles, rapists, and serial killers here in the U.S. but to characterize the U.S. as a bunch of crazed psychos running around raping children and cutting heads off would be a bit of hyperbole don't ya think?


lol, of course man, but look at the data. 







The south is obviously much more religious, with the exception of the Mormons in Utah. 

I don't think morgen was saying *THE ENTIRE SOUTH *is out to lynch atheists. He was just saying that in that part of the country, you have a lot more religious nuts than in other parts of the country. It's just an observation. They don't call it the "bible belt" for no reason right?


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> lol, of course man, but look at the data.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Obviously the south is more religious. I'm taking him to task on a generalization he made about the U.S. and especially the south. I just feel it's important to try and temper our statements with fact and play devil's advocate. Seeing the other side of the coin is something not everyone does well which is probably why we are so void of empathy.


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 5, 2010)

I also love to talk about it. Get a few bears in me and i can't help but bash religion


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## CrackerJax (Jan 5, 2010)

Look at that crazy Utah out there all alone in red ... 

and the correct religion is?! ... Mormons, ... that's right, Mormons... (south park classic)


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> I also love to talk about it. Get a few bears in me and i can't help but bash religion


Get a few "bears" in me and the only thing I'm bashing is my way out of the woods!


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Look at that crazy Utah out there all alone in red ...
> 
> and the correct religion is?! ... Mormons, ... that's right, Mormons... (south park classic)


I think they like to be called "Latterday Saints".


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

tiger woods that is


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> tiger woods that is


Bwahaha!!!!! That was great man!


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## CrackerJax (Jan 5, 2010)

Then U'd be BARE.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

dividing up your assets


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Then U'd be BARE.


BTW I love the new avatar! That's hilarious! Where was that taken?


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## morgentaler (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I am a tool


Look. I can put words in your mouth too!

Statistically there are more fundamentalists in the south than any other part of the US. That does not make all people in the south whackos. It just means there are more whackos. So statistically you have a higher probability of encountering those whackos.

Thanks for playing though. If you're only method of making a point is by fibbing, you're well on your way to congress.


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## morgentaler (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I'm taking him to task on a generalization he made about the U.S. and especially the south.


You know why North American atheists don't get a lot of death threats from Muslims?
Because most of the fundamentalists are very far away and a much smaller percentage of them are surfing the net or reading the news in english.

They still get them though.

Those fundies on both sides who are a bit more savvy of the law just choose to pray for your death instead. I've had those. They're so cute.


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Look. I can put words in your mouth too!
> 
> Statistically there are more fundamentalists in the south than any other part of the US. That does not make all people in the south whackos. It just means there are more whackos. So statistically you have a higher probability of encountering those whackos.
> 
> Thanks for playing though. If you're only method of making a point is by fibbing, you're well on your way to congress.


I don't really understand why you insist on baiting me by calling me a liar repeatedly. I never lied. I boldly posted what you typed and what I typed. It's out there for the world to see my friend.


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## growwwww (Jan 5, 2010)

WHoever shouted out jesus camp to me, im on the last part. Holy shit, the fear on those kids faces. Its horrible.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

what did you call me?


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## growwwww (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> what did you call me?


Jesus???


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

a fictional character ,you better try harder next time


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> a fictional character ,you better try harder next time


I think it's pretty universally accepted that Jesus was a real guy..............whether or not he was the son of God is the point which is up for debate.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

sorry doc i still haven't seen physical proof of this mans existence


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## morgentaler (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I don't really understand why you insist on baiting me by calling me a liar repeatedly. I never lied. I boldly posted what you typed and what I typed. It's out there for the world to see my friend.


You even admitted to putting words in my mouth after the fact. "I'm putting words in your mouth"... 

Well duh.


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## morgentaler (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I think it's pretty universally accepted that Jesus was a real guy..............whether or not he was the son of God is the point which is up for debate.


It's hardly universal among non-Christians.


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 5, 2010)

growwwww said:


> WHoever shouted out jesus camp to me, im on the last part. Holy shit, the fear on those kids faces. Its horrible.


you're welcome  

crazy shit, eh? And those kids will be parents one day... that's what's really scary!


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> sorry doc i still haven't seen physical proof of this mans existence


agreed. I can't point to anything but the bible...
... to some that is all you need


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

morgen your signature sucks .rob


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## growwwww (Jan 5, 2010)

Jesus backwards sounds a bit like sausage??? no?


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

the romans were meticulous about recording events why not record this person who was supposedly a thorn in there side


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Jesus backwards sounds a bit like sausage??? no?


i like sasuage


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## growwwww (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> i like sasuage


But do you like susej??


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> sorry doc i still haven't seen physical proof of this mans existence


I wasn't there either but I saw the shroud of Turin once. That probably doesn't count though huh?


----------



## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> You even admitted to putting words in my mouth after the fact. "I'm putting words in your mouth"...
> 
> Well duh.


I think you called me a liar. Not quite the same thing but I'm stoned so maybe I don't see the connection.  And I was exaggerating a little to make my point about the implication you made about my country, which is pretty secular. Not trying to be a dick but I'd appreciate it if we refrain from name calling. I haven't called anybody any names nor have I accused anybody of lying.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I wasn't there either but I saw the shroud of Turin once. That probably doesn't count though huh?


 it gives me chills but carbon dating puts it past that time sorry, i would like to be the first to say thank god we have proof of the existence of Jesus , to date there is none


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> It's hardly universal among non-Christians.


I think that most historians agree that the man existed. Maybe he existed, maybe he didn't. I wasn't around then.


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## growwwww (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I think you called me a liar. Not quite the same thing but I'm stoned so maybe I don't see the connection.  And I was exaggerating a little to make my point about the implication you made about my country, which is pretty secular. Not trying to be a dick but I'd appreciate it if we refrain from name calling. I haven't called anybody any names nor have I accused anybody of lying.


You my friend are a nuttah! this kind of nuttah - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACCDZlLLV0I


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> it gives me chills but carbon dating puts it past that time sorry, i would like to be the first to say thank god we have proof of the existence of Jesus , to date there is none


I don't understand why this is even a debate amongst you atheists. I mean, if you don't believe in a god then the existence of Jesus kinda becomes a moot point don't ya think?


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## growwwww (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I think that most historians agree that the man existed. Maybe he existed, maybe he didn't. I wasn't around then.


Theres almost no doubt that there was a male named jesus around that time of course. There is all the doubt that a male named jesus was the son of god and was resurected.


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

growwwww said:


> You my friend are a nuttah! this kind of nuttah - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACCDZlLLV0I


Sorry, I don't know what that is.


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## growwwww (Jan 5, 2010)

Dont worry, its just a jungle tune from the 90s in London, its a song about rudeboys in south london, dont worry i sometimes forget people you guys are american. Its a nutts tune for anyone into jungle in the 90s in London and it has nothing relevant to do with much, likewise with susej...


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> it gives me chills but carbon dating puts it past that time sorry, i would like to be the first to say thank god we have proof of the existence of Jesus , to date there is none


 give me somthing other than items older than 400 years ac


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## PadawanBater (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I wasn't there either but I saw the shroud of Turin once. That probably doesn't count though huh?


Shroud of Turin dates to the middle ages, 14th century I think.



doc111 said:


> I don't understand why this is even a debate amongst you atheists. I mean, if you don't believe in a god then the existence of Jesus kinda becomes a moot point don't ya think?


What evidence is there, outside the bible, that Jesus existed? Show me anything, I'm open to absolutely anything at all.


----------



## morgentaler (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I think that most historians agree that the man existed. Maybe he existed, maybe he didn't. I wasn't around then.


There is actually little to no historical (in the academic sense, not the religious sense) evidence of the existence of a religious figure Jesus Christ.

Yes, there were probably Jesus, Josephs, Marys, and Xerxes running about. But the specific individual associated with the biblical claims was edited into history after the fact, or an outright forgery.

From Wikipedia:
_Including the Gospels, there are no surviving historical accounts of Jesus written during his life or within three decades of his death.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus#cite_note-103 A great majority of biblical scholars accept the historical existence of Jesus._

You create myths after the fact. Just like Oh Henry and Paul Bunyan.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

how dare you , there was a paul bunion and a giant blue ox , i may need a minitue


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Shroud of Turin dates to the middle ages, 14th century I think.
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there, outside the bible, that Jesus existed? Show me anything, I'm open to absolutely anything at all.


I was joking about the shroud of Turin (that one fell flat). I already said numerous times that I can't prove that Jesus or God exist/ed. 



morgentaler said:


> There is actually little to no historical (in the academic sense, not the religious sense) evidence of the existence of a religious figure Jesus Christ.
> 
> Yes, there were probably Jesus, Josephs, Marys, and Xerxes running about. But the specific individual associated with the biblical claims was edited into history after the fact, or an outright forgery.
> 
> ...


Who creates myths after the fact? I'm not a historian nor am I religious.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

doc

after you stop joking and want to give real proof or substance please feel free to pm me .....................rob


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## morgentaler (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I was joking about the shroud of Turin (that one fell flat). I already said numerous times that I can't prove that Jesus or God exist/ed.
> 
> Who creates myths after the fact? I'm not a historian nor am I religious.


I didn't mean *you* you. 
Myths are built upon past events, and not like histories (which can also be distorted, but multi-point written histories are a better meter than oral histories which suffer the 'telephone game' more easily.


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## morgentaler (Jan 5, 2010)

Now this is interesting:
http://atheists.org/blog/2010/01/05/why-is-google-blocking-islam-is-search-recommendations

I ran through their test and it's accurate.
Google is hiding Islam results.


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> doc
> 
> after you stop joking and want to give real proof or substance please feel free to pm me .....................rob


How many times do I have to say it????????? I offer no proof of anything to anybody. I'm not out to change anybody's beliefs. I simply hope to change people's attitudes about respecting their fellow human beings. And playing devil's advocate can help people see the other side of the coin............something many people have difficulty with hence the lack of empathy, and respect for our neighbors.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

did i disrespect any one somehow?


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> did i disrespect any one somehow?


I don't think so. I'm just saying, I'm not religious nor do I wish to show proof of anything to anybody because I don't want to change anybody's beliefs. That would be an exercise in futility, not that it's a bad thing but beliefs are beliefs and it usually takes something profound to change them. I certainly can't offer anybody anything profound. (except some really good smoke that one might say has a profound effect on their motor skills).


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## krustofskie (Jan 5, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Dont worry, its just a jungle tune from the 90s in London, its a song about rudeboys in south london, dont worry i sometimes forget people you guys are american. Its a nutts tune for anyone into jungle in the 90s in London and it has nothing relevant to do with much, likewise with susej...


Big up to the London massive. I remember the tune, first heard it in Labyrinth Dalston lane, real oldskool D&B.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 5, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I don't think so. I'm just saying, I'm not religious nor do I wish to show proof of anything to anybody because I don't want to change anybody's beliefs. That would be an exercise in futility, not that it's a bad thing but beliefs are beliefs and it usually takes something profound to change them. I certainly can't offer anybody anything profound. (except some really good smoke that one might say has a profound effect on their motor skills).


next time you are in south texas we should get together and talk religion over some home grown .. my treat ....rob


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## doc111 (Jan 6, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> next time you are in south texas we should get together and talk religion over some home grown .. my treat ....rob


I would love that my friend.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 6, 2010)

Sounds like a party.

Perhaps we could find a cannabis church with free imbibage provided by the greensleves.


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## doc111 (Jan 6, 2010)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> Sounds like a party.
> 
> Perhaps we could find a cannabis church for free imbibage provided by the greensleves.


I love the new avatar! Speaking of avatar has anybody seen the movie? I saw it at the IMAX the other day. It was pretty good I must say. I wish I would've seen it during my mindbending drug phase.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 6, 2010)

No, I've been tempted to watch it online, but I'll wait till my 3D glasses get in.


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## doc111 (Jan 6, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> No, I've been tempted to watch it online, but I'll wait till my 3D glasses get in.


Oh you have to see it in 3D! That's the only way to trully appreciate this film IMO.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 6, 2010)

That's what I've been told.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 6, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Oh you have to see it in 3D! That's the only way to trully appreciate this film IMO.


You're right, I saw it no 3d 

Still good, but I could tell the whole time it would be much better with the full IMAX package... Go for the upgrade.


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## doc111 (Jan 6, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> You're right, I saw it no 3d
> 
> Still good, but I could tell the whole time it would be much better with the full IMAX package... Go for the upgrade.


Totally! The movie and the story are o.k. but it's the effects and the immersive effect the 3D has that really gets you into it. I mean, the effects and visuals were stunning! I loved how they rendered the forests. Very beautiful and imaginative.


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## growwwww (Jan 6, 2010)

NAhhhhhhhhhh defintely not,
i saw it in 3-d and was just like this isint hundred percent neccassary
all the 3-d thing is for, is too attract more people to the cinema to reduce piracy, and its so fucking clever. They make you think its a much better experience lalala and whatnot in the cinema and people flog to go there thinking of new technology and shit. I saw it with and without goggles, goggles first and it was pretty fucking cool either way- BUT i thought at any one point in the film the storyline was kinda cheesy and cliche, to be honest a really dissapointing film id say.


----------



## growwwww (Jan 6, 2010)

krustofskie said:


> Big up to the London massive. I remember the tune, first heard it in Labyrinth Dalston lane, real oldskool D&B.


Yes brother big tune!


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## morgentaler (Jan 7, 2010)

So PhilHellenes was slapped with a privacy violation on youtube for laughing at a video posted by a religious nutbar.
The thing is, the video was posted publicly so it was hardly a privacy violation.

Lots of people have been mirroring it, but youtube has been taking it down. So I went in with Vegas, and put my own little smiley Mohammed over the guys face in every scene. Smiley Mohammed is blasphemy, so lets see what kind of fun emails I get.

[youtube]3oPWxYhqmV8[/youtube]


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## growwwww (Jan 7, 2010)

Wait morgan,

so this gut replied to an islamic video, with a video response of him laughing??? and it got removed? or what im confused :/


----------



## morgentaler (Jan 7, 2010)

Yup. Every time a copy of the video goes back up, a bunch of "privacy violation" complaints are made and the videos are pulled.
He was responding to a publicly posted video, so there must be something in the YouTube system that is heavily automated and buggy, or there is someone in the verification process who is subverting the process for their own agenda.

Watch out for the hammerface! In the GRAVE!


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## growwwww (Jan 7, 2010)

haha this video is fucking brilliant
this guy is hilarious there are so many mirrored videos but seriously i love it LET ME SEE IF I CAN GET A TEAR OUT! haa
brilliant stuff,
cant wait to see what interesting e-mails u get -_-


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## OregonMeds (Jan 7, 2010)

It's the users doing it I think at least mostly, if you can't beat them then kill them any way you can. 

I hope they sarcifice animals too and wave the limbs around in the air and sprinkle the blood around for the lord to enjoy it's smell. Be sure not to drink any blood though it is for the lord he says so many many many many times.


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## yellowrain53 (Jan 8, 2010)

Stoney McFried said:


> But...it makes SO much sense....




awesome jesus horse


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## morgentaler (Jan 9, 2010)

[youtube]55h1FO8V_3w[/youtube]

Mmmm, sky cake. 
And to think I don't rape and murder just because I don't want to. Not because I was expecting cake!


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 9, 2010)

IT appears as if the practice of atheism is as closely linked to deity bashing as the practice of monotheistic religion is linked to atheist bashing.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 9, 2010)

sky cake why are you so good?


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> IT appears as if the practice of atheism is as closely linked to deity bashing as the practice of monotheistic religion is linked to atheist bashing.


I notice this as well Hippie. Everybody thinks that their way of thinking is the best. I wonder why that realization alone doesn't give more of us pause and enable us to open our minds more. I thought atheists would be more open minded but this site has taught me that they are no different from religious types at all. I guess human nature doesn't change much regardless of what you believe.


----------



## Stoney McFried (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm a woman and I'm an atheist. Now, I'm from Iowa, and from my town and some of the surrounding towns at least, I've observed that in general the population around here tends to be pretty backwards when it comes to religion. Still plenty of superstitious fear to be found around here,even from people you'd think would know better...i.e. doctors,lawyers,and other "educated" folks. When visiting my mother in a nearby small town,there was a billboard on the highway by the gas station that simply said "JESUS",and I just imagined the hell all those fucking Christians would raise if some other religious organization did the same thing and put "BUDDHA" or "HABONDIA".
But anyway, to answer your question,I can honestly say that outside of a few folks in my family who at least qualify as agnostic, I have never met another atheist in my immediate area. But I don't get out all that much, so I could be all wrong.


growwwww said:


> Just to throw this thought out here,
> 
> and to maybe rive up a discussion.
> But do you guys think that the people who claim themselves athiest, out of these. That its mostly a male dominated catagorie??
> ...


----------



## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I notice this as well Hippie. Everybody thinks that their way of thinking is the best. I wonder why that realization alone doesn't give more of us pause and enable us to open our minds more. I thought atheists would be more open minded but this site has taught me that they are no different from religious types at all. I guess human nature doesn't change much regardless of what you believe.



Hmm not so much, Monotheistic religions bash each other about to a much bigger degree... And aswell how can you say its a practise of athiesm...When you drop god and get on with other stuff, kick the bullshit and realise monotheism ( or belief in god ) isint your thing, essentially become an athiest you get attacked...Literally attacked by the believers, you *need *to be able to gun back at them and tell you why you have these views. Its more defence, its not athiests bouncing on religion, its athiests regularly being handed shit and religious thinkers not getting the idea...that we dont think there is a personal god and we dont religion, so we want to better ourselves off and just fucking enjoy life and get own with shit, go to labs and work and whatnot. Atleast its been this way for me and many otherrs ive heard the same.

Fuck you, you mongrels who are trying to indoctrinate me, ive made up my mind and the second i start speaking my mind, made up of more facts and more proof than you guys can offer me on a plate, my plate seems much more real and substantual to me, and truthfully to most others. They try hide the plates or force theirs down my throat. Fuck off.

A women today whilst i was waiting at the bus stop came up to me to ask me if i believed in god, she was a fucking nutcase riding her bycicle this young blonde girl with glasses i swear down her eyes were dialated like shit. I said no and she tried speaking to me, and i said no im not interested. She Persisted to ask me why i have morals and i explained to her, because we are physiologically programmed to be empathetic and to imitate what happens to others she just didint understand and went up to put a massive sign on the bustop to tell everyone to come to church on sunday and i just accepted a leaflet from her, because SHE WOULDNT GO AWAY. She cycled off and tore down the poster on the bustop ripped it in pieces and threw it in the bin.


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## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

Stoney McFried said:


> I'm a woman and I'm an atheist. Now, I'm from Iowa, and from my town and some of the surrounding towns at least, I've observed that in general the population around here tends to be pretty backwards when it comes to religion. Still plenty of superstitious fear to be found around here,even from people you'd think would know better...i.e. doctors,lawyers,and other "educated" folks. When visiting my mother in a nearby small town,there was a billboard on the highway by the gas station that simply said "JESUS",and I just imagined the hell all those fucking Christians would raise if some other religious organization did the same thing and put "BUDDHA" or "HABONDIA".
> But anyway, to answer your question,I can honestly say that outside of a few folks in my family who at least qualify as agnostic, I have never met another atheist in my immediate area. But I don't get out all that much, so I could be all wrong.


Cool, really good to hear. Truthfully speaking to my mother whos really quite a tough cookie and normally gets shit right. She just thinks and i think its true, women just have better shit to do in there time than bother with religion...Because mostly it doesnt involve them and athiesm they just dont care. Im in Britiain so the situation is diffferent from you guys in the U.S but cool to hear


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## Stoney McFried (Jan 9, 2010)

Well, my mom was a Jehovah's Witness.She couldn't go back to the church now if she wanted to, I don't think, because she broke down and had a blood transfusion when a bleeding ulcer was threatening to kill her. She still believes in a lot of the bullshit she learned from there,and is certain that after "Armegeddon",she will not be able to come back and live in the "New System" because she didn't attend church and was not a "good" witness. Once she began speaking to me of GAWD and started crying as she spoke, and I said,"Now how is this god of yours such a good thing if you break into tears because you're so afraid of him and his wrath?" But mom,well, she's never been big in the brains department.....(and I'm not saying that to be mean),she was just a really beautiful woman who didn't have to get by on much more than that through most of her life.And she's had a hard life, too.When you think about it,if this god of hers existed, he did the cruelest thing he could ever have done to her.....he took away her beauty and dinged her up pretty bad in a car wreck so she can't even really get physically fit. Now she's done some shitty stuff in her life,and maybe some folks would call it karma.....but I really don't think a lot of her shit was malice(though she could be vindictive), just ignorance.She really loved being young and beautiful.....and for her time,and in this state,she was a sexual pioneer(She once wrote down a list of over 200 lovers)....and now she's a wrinkled old lady with bad teeth and a pin in her knee and elbow and a bad hip.What kind of loving god would take a butterfly and rip off its wings like that?But still, she clings to these beliefs out of fear.Sad.


growwwww said:


> Cool, really good to hear. Truthfully speaking to my mother whos really quite a tough cookie and normally gets shit right. She just thinks and i think its true, women just have better shit to do in there time than bother with religion...Because mostly it doesnt involve them and athiesm they just dont care. Im in Britiain so the situation is diffferent from you guys in the U.S but cool to hear


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## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

Stoney McFried said:


> Well, my mom was a Jehovah's Witness.She couldn't go back to the church now if she wanted to, I don't think, because she broke down and had a blood transfusion when a bleeding ulcer was threatening to kill her. She still believes in a lot of the bullshit she learned from there,and is certain that after "Armegeddon",she will not be able to come back and live in the "New System" because she didn't attend church and was not a "good" witness. Once she began speaking to me of GAWD and started crying as she spoke, and I said,"Now how is this god of yours such a good thing if you break into tears because you're so afraid of him and his wrath?" But mom,well, she's never been big in the brains department.....(and I'm not saying that to be mean),she was just a really beautiful woman who didn't have to get by on much more than that through most of her life.And she's had a hard life, too.When you think about it,if this god of hers existed, he did the cruelest thing he could ever have done to her.....he took away her beauty and dinged her up pretty bad in a car wreck so she can't even really get physically fit. Now she's done some shitty stuff in her life,and maybe some folks would call it karma.....but I really don't think a lot of her shit was malice(though she could be vindictive), just ignorance.She really loved being young and beautiful.....and for her time,and in this state,she was a sexual pioneer(She once wrote down a list of over 200 lovers)....and now she's a wrinkled old lady with bad teeth and a pin in her knee and elbow and a bad hip.What kind of loving god would take a butterfly and rip off its wings like that?But still, she clings to these beliefs out of fear.Sad.


Damn, sorry to hear about all of that. but yeah my mums been through lots of peeps dieing when she was a child. And similarly to ur mother i suppose? but not really. My mum has always said to me when i was growing up, if god does exist, hes an absolute wanker.

Anyway, peace too all!


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## CrackerJax (Jan 9, 2010)

You know what Karma is? It's a pseudo replacement for religion by ppl who don't profess to need any. 

Karma is another mind cheat, no different from religion. 

Ur mom is no different from Patty Hearst. She has been damaged by her own church (her captors). They have instilled a FEAR in her that will be difficult to remove. 

Have pity on her, but I'm sure you already do. Ur a good person Stoney.


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## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

Oh btw this is what i was talking about, with the ways humans phsyically imitate and empathise,

watch his other talk aswell, this man is fantastic!!!!

http://www.ted.com/talks/vs_ramachandran_the_neurons_that_shaped_civilization.html

This is a fucking nutts discovery, think about it? Research into this can be so cool, and will specifty and make drug research so much more specific as it adds to the element of this unconsious brain activity that is mimicing what happens to other people, when its not happening to us? Its nutts and he also puts it into evolutionary perspective and why we are so good at spreading ideas horizontally and so quickly, truly fantastic!!!


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Hmm not so much, Monotheistic religions bash each other about to a much bigger degree... And aswell how can you say its a practise of athiesm...When you drop god and get on with other stuff, kick the bullshit and realise monotheism ( or belief in god ) isint your thing, essentially become an athiest you get attacked...Literally attacked by the believers, you *need *to be able to gun back at them and tell you why you have these views. Its more defence, its not athiests bouncing on religion, its athiests regularly being handed shit and religious thinkers not getting the idea...that we dont think there is a personal god and we dont religion, so we want to better ourselves off and just fucking enjoy life and get own with shit, go to labs and work and whatnot. Atleast its been this way for me and many otherrs ive heard the same.
> 
> Fuck you, you mongrels who are trying to indoctrinate me, ive made up my mind and the second i start speaking my mind, made up of more facts and more proof than you guys can offer me on a plate, my plate seems much more real and substantual to me, and truthfully to most others. They try hide the plates or force theirs down my throat. Fuck off.
> 
> A women today whilst i was waiting at the bus stop came up to me to ask me if i believed in god, she was a fucking nutcase riding her bycicle this young blonde girl with glasses i swear down her eyes were dialated like shit. I said no and she tried speaking to me, and i said no im not interested. She Persisted to ask me why i have morals and i explained to her, because we are physiologically programmed to be empathetic and to imitate what happens to others she just didint understand and went up to put a massive sign on the bustop to tell everyone to come to church on sunday and i just accepted a leaflet from her, because SHE WOULDNT GO AWAY. She cycled off and tore down the poster on the bustop ripped it in pieces and threw it in the bin.


See, you automatically disagree with me which more or less proves my point. You think you are right, they think they are right. To deny this is to deny fundamental human nature. I didn't mean to say this was an absolute but it is definitely the norm. Tell me that you don't know you are correct. My dear grandmother, whom I love wholeheartedly, is very religious and she will tell you to your face that she knows she is correct. And for anybody to deny this is to deny a look at their own self and way of thinking. Stop for 2 seconds and open your mind. Allow yourself to think: maybe I am wrong about everything I think about religion. It's a fact of human nature. We all think our way of thinking is the correct one.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 9, 2010)

I've come to believe that religion is a Darwin effect, and we are hard wired to be superstitious.

Breaking free from ur hard wiring is the most difficult thing you can do. Few achieve it.


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## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

doc111 said:


> See, you automatically disagree with me which more or less proves my point. You think you are right, they think they are right. To deny this is to deny fundamental human nature. I didn't mean to say this was an absolute but it is definitely the norm. Tell me that you don't know you are correct. My dear grandmother, whom I love wholeheartedly, is very religious and she will tell you to your face that she knows she is correct. And for anybody to deny this is to deny a look at their own self and way of thinking. Stop for 2 seconds and open your mind. Allow yourself to think: maybe I am wrong about everything I think about religion. It's a fact of human nature. We all think our way of thinking is the correct one.


Your just annoying, im not saying its absolute either. The truth is, if they are fucking right they cant say theres been much wrong with athiests, we arent violently doing much we arent keeping kosher or going to church or rapping our women up in burqas no. but we are still being charitable and thers a large proportion of them working high up in science ( richard dawkins gives the percentage in his talk i think less than 10percent of the top 400 chemists and biologists believe in a personal god? i cant remember exactly ) and all im saying is, as athiests when we are showing the proof we think is admirable and sufficient we will be the first ones to admit we are wrong. 

Oh and well done, it is a fact of human nature, watch Dan Denettes speech about the mind, he talks about how everyone thinks they are an expert on the consciousness etc... I think you get the right idea but i always think you are tied up in some weird fence sitting maybe directional?? I really dont know. but at the end of the day, its what i think and you shouldnt care much because its not that important.

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_dennett_on_our_consciousness.html

this talk doesnt explain consciousness well or his ideas, but u get what i mean just in teh first few minutes which his humurous intro. Hes really brilliant. Watch hsi talk on memes after which is more on topic to wht he actually talks about in that speech


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## CrackerJax (Jan 9, 2010)

Religion is one of the most successful memes ever created. It's also the most damaging to society.


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## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Religion is one of the most successful memes ever created. It's also the most damaging to society.


Yup, thats where the whole evolutionary perspective comes into play. We can see that religion once was of utmost importance, when people went to war and when people were in famine it was religion thta kept their hope and possibly led them on to survive/defend from people. But, this is all big phoney ball shti im on gonna speak about...Like terence says, like aldous says and like as we see and the world is showing...We are speeding up and become increasingly complex, religion is slowly loosing importance and is having a negative effect.

When shit gets heated we often loose apt and sight of the truth, we need to drop out and stand back. Kick the bullshit and re-assess. Enjoy life innit!! dont stress about whether ur next door neighbours a fucking muslim or a jew just get on with tings isint !!!! ahh im so high right now and listen to big tunes! enjoy life brothers!


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Your just annoying, im not saying its absolute either. The truth is, if they are fucking right they cant say theres been much wrong with athiests, we arent violently doing much we arent keeping kosher or going to church or rapping our women up in burqas no. but we are still being charitable and thers a large proportion of them working high up in science ( richard dawkins gives the percentage in his talk i think less than 10percent of the top 400 chemists and biologists believe in a personal god? i cant remember exactly ) and all im saying is, as athiests when we are showing the proof we think is admirable and sufficient we will be the first ones to admit we are wrong.
> 
> Oh and well done, it is a fact of human nature, watch Dan Denettes speech about the mind, he talks about how everyone thinks they are an expert on the consciousness etc... I think you get the right idea but i always think you are tied up in some weird fence sitting maybe directional?? I really dont know. but at the end of the day, its what i think and you shouldnt care much because its not that important.
> 
> ...


If I'm annoying you then I must be doing something right................making you think! OUCH!!! It hurts my brain! Look man, you don't have to agree with me just like I don't have to agree with you. I share many of your feelings about organized religion but when I see things like "Christianity is dangerous" or "Religion encompasses everything wrong with the world" it gives me pause. It's a blanket statement, a generalization being made. Which is a stereotype. To make blanket statements is to deny the reality of what religion is and does. Is religion perfect? Of course not but show me any human institution which is perfect. Can religion be dangerous? Of course it can but do churches feed the hungry and clothe the poor? Do priests molest little boys? Of course but does every priest molest? Come on! You are all intelligent people..............start behaving like it for a change.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 9, 2010)

Here's a perception Doc....

Man someday will leave religion behind. But not anytime soon. Man still needs it. At least for the foreseeable future.

(?)Perhaps(?) someday we will travel deep space, and one of 2 things will happen:

1.) We will discover for ourselves that superstition is no longer needed for us to be happy beings.

2.) We discover that there is a Galactic church (at which point all the atheists will commit suicide).


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## Stoney McFried (Jan 9, 2010)

Mom was just dirt poor growing up,and as she became a woman, she was really beautiful.All the old timers talk about it, and I've seen pics...she could have been a model.She also had a hell of a singing voice.However, like I mentioned, not a lot of common sense. Over the course of her life, she was raped three times,went though a string of bad relationships,partied hard,neglected her kids(I think the guilt gets to her a lot),was abused severely ( I mean, like, concentration camp level abuse...my dad was crazy),is a five pack a day smoker,got into a head on collision in 78 that fucked her up pretty good....But she just gets her mind stuck on something and you can't get her out of that way of thinking.Like I said, mom's not terribly smart, so the brainwashing religion offers was a little more effective on her than her kids.


growwwww said:


> Damn, sorry to hear about all of that. but yeah my mums been through lots of peeps dieing when she was a child. And similarly to ur mother i suppose? but not really. My mum has always said to me when i was growing up, if god does exist, hes an absolute wanker.
> 
> Anyway, peace too all!


I do have pity on her,even though she wasn't exactly super mom.After dad died,we went hungry a lot while she went out partying....and I got beat on a bit there by her...I think it was a way to get back at my dad for the things he did to her and my half brothers,because I was his favorite and wasn't mistreated.I used to resent her for it,but I don't anymore.However, I will bring it up if she starts running her mouth and trying to tell me how to raise my kids...basically letting her know she has no room to talk,because I may yell a bit sometimes, but it's nowhere near what she did as a mother.I think we end up being our own instrument of "karma".We become on the outside what we think we are on the inside a lot of the time. Imagine being one of the great beauties of your town, if not your nation,and ending up the complete opposite of what you were.And I'm sure she feels she deserves it sometimes.


CrackerJax said:


> You know what Karma is? It's a pseudo replacement for religion by ppl who don't profess to need any.
> 
> Karma is another mind cheat, no different from religion.
> 
> ...


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Here's a perception Doc....
> 
> Man someday will leave religion behind. But not anytime soon. Man still needs it. At least for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...


Ha! Perhaps your are correct. The point is though is that nobody really knows. One can suspect, believe, or even srumise, but nobody can really know. Which brings us full circle in our logic.............Thank you and goodnight!


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

Stoney McFried said:


> Mom was just dirt poor growing up,and as she became a woman, she was really beautiful.All the old timers talk about it, and I've seen pics...she could have been a model.She also had a hell of a singing voice.However, like I mentioned, not a lot of common sense. Over the course of her life, she was raped three times,went though a string of bad relationships,partied hard,neglected her kids(I think the guilt gets to her a lot),was abused severely ( I mean, like, concentration camp level abuse...my dad was crazy),is a five pack a day smoker,got into a head on collision in 78 that fucked her up pretty good....But she just gets her mind stuck on something and you can't get her out of that way of thinking.Like I said, mom's not terribly smart, so the brainwashing religion offers was a little more effective on her than her kids.
> 
> I do have pity on her,even though she wasn't exactly super mom.After dad died,we went hungry a lot while she went out partying....and I got beat on a bit there by her...I think it was a way to get back at my dad for the things he did to her and my half brothers,because I was his favorite and wasn't mistreated.I used to resent her for it,but I don't anymore.However, I will bring it up if she starts running her mouth and trying to tell me how to raise my kids...basically letting her know she has no room to talk,because I may yell a bit sometimes, but it's nowhere near what she did as a mother.I think we end up being our own instrument of karma.We become on the outside what we think we are on the inside a lot of the time. Imagine being one of the great beauties of your town, if not your nation,and ending up the complete opposite of what you were.And I'm sure she feels she deserves it sometimes.


Isn't that a bit superstitous for somebody who is an atheist?


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## Stoney McFried (Jan 9, 2010)

I should have placed quote marks around the word karma.EDIT:There, fixed it.


doc111 said:


> Isn't that a bit superstitous for somebody who is an atheist?


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## CrackerJax (Jan 9, 2010)

Ur right DOC, no one knows. Something I maintain like a daily vitamin.

The problem is we have an institution called the church which sometimes upon pain of death INSISTS it DOES KNOW.... and that's the problem.


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## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Ur right DOC, no one knows. Something I maintain like a daily vitamin.
> 
> The problem is we have an institution called the church which sometimes upon pain of death INSISTS it DOES KNOW.... and that's the problem.


Yup Cracker said it, now doc please stop repeating the same thing over and over we get it. You dont know anything for sure...okay we get it...Or do we??


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Ur right DOC, no one knows. Something I maintain like a daily vitamin.
> 
> The problem is we have an institution called the church which sometimes upon pain of death INSISTS it DOES KNOW.... and that's the problem.


Couldn't agree more.................



growwwww said:


> Yup Cracker said it, now doc please stop repeating the same thing over and over we get it. You dont know anything for sure...okay we get it...Or do we??


If you don't like what I have to say nobody is forcing you to read it. You don't even have to respond, hell you can even put me on your ignore list. What's wrong with being on the fence and challenging yours or anybody elses views? I simply acknowledge the fact that this isn't a simple issue. And challenge conventional and unconventional wisdom is what I do. Sorry if that annoys you bro, but that tells me that you are uncomfortable with what I have to say. Why is that? I can't figure that one out. If you don't want opposing viewpoints then start a thread saying "Atheism--discussion for atheists only". 

We don't all have to agree to get along do we?


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## CrackerJax (Jan 9, 2010)

Posting on a fence can lead to splinters though...


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Posting on a fence can lead to splinters though...


Perhaps but I'm not religious. I have always felt that there was something, more to this existence I guess. I can't describe it, I can't explain it. I only have my own experiences to reference when dealing with these matters. I've experienced things that defied conventional logic as I understand it. I've never seen a ghost or a UFO or the loch ness monster, but I believe we each have a soul. And when we pass I believe we live on. Not in the poetic "he lives in our hearts" way, but actually live on. Maybe it's how I comfort myself when thinking of death, I just don't know. 

Where does this leave me?


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## shnkrmn (Jan 9, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Where does this leave me?



Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.


lol! I like Pink Floyd too........


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## shnkrmn (Jan 9, 2010)

doc111 said:


> lol! I like Pink Floyd too........


Then it's all Golden!

Nothing but Blue Skies, from now on, eh?


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## PadawanBater (Jan 9, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Perhaps but I'm not religious. I have always felt that there was something, more to this existence I guess. I can't describe it, I can't explain it. I only have my own experiences to reference when dealing with these matters. I've experienced things that defied conventional logic as I understand it. I've never seen a ghost or a UFO or the loch ness monster, but I believe we each have a soul. And when we pass I believe we live on. Not in the poetic "he lives in our hearts" way, but actually live on. Maybe it's how I comfort myself when thinking of death, I just don't know.
> 
> Where does this leave me?


 
See man, I wan't to use this because I think it'll serve as a perfect example of one of the points I've been talking about. 

I totally disagree with this, my own steps in thinking of something and coming to a conclusion couldn't be any more different. But I couldn't give a fuck less *what you believe. *The most important thing is *how those beliefs *affect your behavior in society, and to a lesser degree how you came to the conclusions you did, your thought process. 

This belief is something totally personal, *as it should be*. It's between you and whatever, if any, creator there may or may not be.


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## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> See man, I wan't to use this because I think it'll serve as a perfect example of one of the points I've been talking about.
> 
> I totally disagree with this, my own steps in thinking of something and coming to a conclusion couldn't be any more different. But I couldn't give a fuck less *what you believe. *The most important thing is *how those beliefs *affect your behavior in society, and to a lesser degree how you came to the conclusions you did, your thought process.
> 
> This belief is something totally personal, *as it should be*. It's between you and whatever, if any, creator there may or may not be.


padawan says it, same i really dont care what you believe aswell. Infact if you think being rude to you im sorry, but again i dont care much. Im not saying what ur saying is right or wrong either ijust simply dont care much about it because its not doing much, which in itself i dont much about that.

Peace


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

growwwww said:


> padawan says it, same i really dont care what you believe aswell. Infact if you think being rude to you im sorry, but again i dont care much. Im not saying what ur saying is right or wrong either ijust simply dont care much about it because its not doing much, which in itself i dont much about that.
> 
> Peace


Then why even bother having the conversation in the first place?.......


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## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

Because i thought we would get somewhere...But we didint.


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## morgentaler (Jan 9, 2010)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> IT appears as if the practice of atheism is as closely linked to deity bashing as the practice of monotheistic religion is linked to atheist bashing.


Then your observational skills suck.

Those monotheistic religions have doctrine/dogma that attacks the unbeliever throughout.

Atheists are just people who believe in lots of things, but share one commonality: a disbelief in theistic gods.

I think religion is stupid, harmful, and a plague against rational thought.

Another atheist may not.

But there is no document that demands we both dislike religion.

The big 3 monotheistics have a big hate-on in their scripture for all who don't believe in Sky-God Crankypants.

Does your statement still stand?


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## morgentaler (Jan 9, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Fuck you, you mongrels who are trying to indoctrinate me, ive made up my mind and the second i start speaking my mind, made up of more facts and more proof than you guys can offer me on a plate, my plate seems much more real and substantual to me, and truthfully to most others. They try hide the plates or force theirs down my throat. Fuck off.


Yup, after 30+ years of putting up with religious shit and thinking it was better to just pretend it wasn't offensive I saw that people were taking a stand against it - that you don't have to just sit around and let some myth shape the politics and education of your culture because it has the "special consideration" of religion.

Fuck that. You want to shape the future of society? Come to me with more than a story about some people in the desert with an evil god who likes to torment them.


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Because i thought we would get somewhere...But we didint.


Where did you want to go? Did you learn anything? Was it fun? It occupied an otherwise empty space in your life for a short time. I know I have learned much and I respect each and everyone of you regardless of your beliefs or how you feel about it. 

Peace


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## morgentaler (Jan 9, 2010)

doc111 said:


> If I'm annoying you then I must be doing something right................making you think!


Even a mosquito can be annoying.
Just sayin'. 

All the good and bad that you talk about after that can be achieved without religion. Religion should simply be irrelevant to our lives.

You can do charity with or without it.

The fact that religion makes promises of a reward/punishment after this life so that it can get you to do things in this one is just pathetic. It may give hope to the poor and the uneducated, but imagine what they could do if they weren't banking on the next life being a better one.
If you're just putting in time here, trying not to piss off "god" so you can have a nice afterlife, what's the point of being in the first place?


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## morgentaler (Jan 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> 2.) We discover that there is a Galactic church (at which point all the atheists will commit suicide).


No way. If it's galactic, I'm taking reason to the universe. If it's universal, I'm taking reason to the multiverse.

Doesn't matter how big the church gets. If it's built on faith, and not reason, then someone needs to be around to oppose it.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 9, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> No way. If it's galactic, I'm taking reason to the universe. If it's universal, I'm taking reason to the multiverse.
> 
> Doesn't matter how big the church gets. If it's built on faith, and not reason, then someone needs to be around to oppose it.


lol I'll bring the weed. 

[youtube]iErLsmU_y4U&feature=sub[/youtube]

Guys, you couldn't ask for a nicer guy to critique Christianity. Here you go. I would love for some of the believers to answer the question posed at the end of this video!


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Even a mosquito can be annoying.
> Just sayin'.
> 
> All the good and bad that you talk about after that can be achieved without religion. Religion should simply be irrelevant to our lives.
> ...


What am I doing that's so annoying? Am I spouting a bunch of religious b.s.? No. Am I saying you atheists are gonna burn in hell if you don't change your ways? No. Am I touting some new age bullshit about how we're gonna become part of the cosmic energy balloon at the center of the universe?  No. Please tell me what I'm doing to annoy you. Like I said earllier, if you guys don't want your views challenged you need to make a thread called "Atheism--a discussion for atheists only".

Just sayin'


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## growwwww (Jan 9, 2010)

doc111 said:


> What am I doing that's so annoying? Am I spouting a bunch of religious b.s.? No. Am I saying you atheists are gonna burn in hell if you don't change your ways? No. Am I touting some new age bullshit about how we're gonna become part of the cosmic energy balloon at the center of the universe?  No. Please tell me what I'm doing to annoy you. Like I said earllier, if you guys don't want your views challenged you need to make a thread called "Atheism--a discussion for atheists only".
> 
> Just sayin'


You do like to highlight and enlarge and change the colour of words...thats quite annoying ha  anyway must dash!


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## doc111 (Jan 9, 2010)

growwwww said:


> You do like to highlight and enlarge and change the colour of words...thats quite annoying ha  anyway must dash!


So what? You put that little dude smiling with the big doobie in his mouth. That's annoying. Padwanbater writes all of his posts in green. That's annoying. You can't be serious bro. 

Sorry Pad, I was just using you as an example.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 9, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> lol I'll bring the weed.
> 
> [youtube]iErLsmU_y4U&feature=sub[/youtube]
> 
> Guys, you couldn't ask for a nicer guy to critique Christianity. Here you go. I would love for some of the believers to answer the question posed at the end of this video!


 no one willing to comment on the video?


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## Katatawnic (Jan 9, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> no one willing to comment on the video?


I'm more than willing to comment, now that I've viewed it.  I wholeheartedly agree with everything he said.


----------



## morgentaler (Jan 9, 2010)

[youtube]ucHIPag-m40[/youtube]

Wow. Is this caller thick.
Atheist he may be. Rational, he is not.


----------



## PadawanBater (Jan 9, 2010)

doc111 said:


> So what? You put that little dude smiling with the big doobie in his mouth. That's annoying. Padwanbater writes all of his posts in green. That's annoying. You can't be serious bro.
> 
> Sorry Pad, I was just using you as an example.


lol, no prob. I do that so people automatically recognize it's my post. I went with orange first, but that was waaaay more annoying! lol.

I guess one of the few things I can give credit to Vi for.



robert 14617 said:


> no one willing to comment on the video?


That bit at the end, specifically about dismissing parts of the bible then accepting other bits is what I'm interested in. How they justify it, what processes of elimination they go through, etc... Like profMTH said, every believer must come to terms with that decision at some point...



morgentaler said:


> [youtube]ucHIPag-m40[/youtube]
> 
> Wow. Is this caller thick.
> Atheist he may be. Rational, he is not.


lol, see guys, rationality is not required to be an atheist...


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 10, 2010)

"That bit at the end, specifically about dismissing parts of the bible then accepting other bits is what I'm interested in. How they justify it, what processes of elimination they go through, etc... Like profMTH said, every believer must come to terms with that decision at some point..."

IT can pick and choose, Right?

Or, must IT all be taken at the face value Humansity is provided?


----------



## PadawanBater (Jan 10, 2010)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> "That bit at the end, specifically about dismissing parts of the bible then accepting other bits is what I'm interested in. How they justify it, what processes of elimination they go through, etc... Like profMTH said, every believer must come to terms with that decision at some point..."
> 
> IT can pick and choose, Right?
> 
> Or, must IT all be taken at the face value Humansity is provided?


Well, the way I see it is either the bible is 100% the word of God, coming directly from his mouth, which would mean it's perfect in every way (as that's what God is and cannot be anything but perfect), or it isn't, and it was written by men who believed they were communicating with God. It's either/or, it cannot be both.

So with that, if you accept it as true, the word of God, then you must accept all of it, the entire NT along with the OT. 

If it's not, then why base your morality on it at all, why be Christian at all?


The video outlines this entire description a lot better, if you didn't watch it it might help you understand it more clearly if I'm not making any sense. (little stoned, 6:30am.. lol)


----------



## growwwww (Jan 10, 2010)

doc111 said:


> So what? You put that little dude smiling with the big doobie in his mouth. That's annoying. Padwanbater writes all of his posts in green. That's annoying. You can't be serious bro.
> 
> Sorry Pad, I was just using you as an example.


Aite chap chill out, was just having a lil gas at you, jam it. And if you find the green writing annoying, then okay...you find it annoying.

Also that video about liberal and moderate christianity would theologists not argue that some parts are more relevant today? And that if they took it for its absolute meaning some parts would just completely ruin their lives as they would be imprisoned and whatever. And they would probably quote something about if its lief or death situation you can dismiss parts? Im pretty sure thats what they would say, or if i remember rightly from high school thats what i was told -_-


----------



## doc111 (Jan 10, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Aite chap chill out, was just having a lil gas at you, jam it. And if you find the green writing annoying, then okay...you find it annoying.
> 
> Also that video about liberal and moderate christianity would theologists not argue that some parts are more relevant today? And that if they took it for its absolute meaning some parts would just completely ruin their lives as they would be imprisoned and whatever. And they would probably quote something about if its lief or death situation you can dismiss parts? Im pretty sure thats what they would say, or if i remember rightly from high school thats what i was told -_-


It's all good bro. I was just trying to make a point. Some don't like their ideas challenged and they lash out by criticizing petty things about their challenger. That's kinda what it seemed like you were doing. Don't worry though, I didn't get that worked up about it.


----------



## doc111 (Jan 10, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Well, the way I see it is either the bible is 100% the word of God, coming directly from his mouth, which would mean it's perfect in every way (as that's what God is and cannot be anything but perfect), or it isn't, and it was written by men who believed they were communicating with God. It's either/or, it cannot be both.
> 
> So with that, if you accept it as true, the word of God, then you must accept all of it, the entire NT along with the OT.
> 
> ...


This is one of the issues I have with the Bible as well. It was written by men. Supposedly these men were prophets and received the words from god. How can we know this? And don't forget there are many, many scrolls which weren't contained in the bible. They are still finding these scrolls. So that tells me that the bible could be incomplete. Keep in mind that things aren't always black and white though. Life conains a LOT of gray areas.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 10, 2010)

Many things have been tossed out at the very beginning of the Bible's inception... knowingly.

It is certainly NOT the word of G*D. Don't forget that until recently, the church taught and insisted that the Bible is indeed perfect and the true word. 

So why the change? Why change if it's true? 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ .... that's why.


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## doc111 (Jan 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Many things have been tossed out at the very beginning of the Bible's inception... knowingly.
> 
> It is certainly NOT the word of G*D. Don't forget that until recently, the church taught and insisted that the Bible is indeed perfect and the true word.
> 
> ...


 Seems like it always comes down to the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ doesn't it?


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## growwwww (Jan 10, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Seems like it always comes down to the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ doesn't it?


Dont be so silly!!! These people are purely doing it because they know the mening of life and have greater knowledge and understand of the life to come!!!


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## doc111 (Jan 10, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Dont be so silly!!! These people are purely doing it because they know the mening of life and have greater knowledge and understand of the life to come!!!


You are gonna disagree with that????????? Then why is the Catholic Church the richest corporation on the planet (I think it's actually Exxon-Mobil but the church is right there)?


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## growwwww (Jan 10, 2010)

doc111 said:


> You are gonna disagree with that????????? Then why is the Catholic Church the richest corporation on the planet (I think it's actually Exxon-Mobil but the church is right there)?


Dude im joking and being sarcastic... i sometimes forget that it doesnt convey so well over the internet


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## shnkrmn (Jan 10, 2010)

doc111 said:


> This is one of the issues I have with the Bible as well. It was written by men. Supposedly these men were prophets and received the words from god. How can we know this? And don't forget there are many, many scrolls which weren't contained in the bible. They are still finding these scrolls. So that tells me that the bible could be incomplete. Keep in mind that things aren't always black and white though. Life conains a LOT of gray areas.


While it is true that WE are still finding scrolls, it's largely known that the texts we are discovering were well known to the early church fathers. Books like the Gospels of Judas and Jesus are precisely the kinds of texts which were purged from the canon during the formative period of the church because they did not conform to the emerging uniform doctrine. The first major schism of the church dates to this period; it is amazing to me that the eastern and western churches acknowledge each other at all, so great is their difference on a fundamental element of doctrine like the concept of the trinity.

In the early 4th century, the bishops were still deciding whether Jesus was actually god or just filled with god, or a whole heckuva lot like god. They also decided self-castration wasn't in line with church teachings (First Nicaean Council).

Did you know the books of the bible actually contain numerous references to OTHER texts which are not contained within the bible? The traces of a vast ancient library are sprinkled throughout the text we know. Like the Book of the Wars of the Lord, written collaboratively by Moses, Joshua and the children of Israel. This book is now entirely lost.

This made me think of how accustomed we are to thinking of the bible in a hermetic sense; i.e. the bible exists within an entirely self-referential space in which texts reflect and are confirmed by other texts within a closed corpus of texts. So these extra-biblical textual references are surprising to learn about. They are so de-emphasized by pastoral practice in favor of the solipsism of scripture.


And the Sun stood still, and the Moon stayed,until the people had avenged themselves on their enemies. 
Is this not written in the _Book of the Upright_ (_S&#275;per haiY&#257;&#257;r_)?Joshua 10:13.

The OT is filled with these little nuggets. The NT is purged of any references to texts outside its own canon.

Scholarly Sunday wake and bake. Sorry about the ramble; just sharing.


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## doc111 (Jan 10, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Dude im joking and being sarcastic... i sometimes forget that it doesnt convey so well over the internet


True. That's why I like the little smiley dudes. They sometimes convey what is being said better than our own choice of words can. Kinda like this...........<< That's me right now. lol!


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## shnkrmn (Jan 10, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Dude im joking and being sarcastic... i sometimes forget that it doesnt convey so well over the internet


You just need to lay it on thicker. It's like being on stage; increase the amplitude of your gestures and project your voice!


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## doc111 (Jan 10, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> While it is true that WE are still finding scrolls, it's largely known that the texts we are discovering were well known to the early church fathers. Books like the Gospels of Judas and Jesus are precisely the kinds of texts which were purged from the canon during the formative period of the church because they did not conform to the emerging uniform doctrine. The first major schism of the church dates to this period; it is amazing to me that the eastern and western churches acknowledge each other at all, so great is their difference on a fundamental element of doctrine like the concept of the trinity.
> 
> In the early 4th century, the bishops were still deciding whether Jesus was actually god or just filled with god, or a whole heckuva lot like god. They also decided self-castration wasn't in line with church teachings (First Nicaean Council).
> 
> ...


This is what fascinates me about biblical history and theology in general. So much interesting stuff to learn about!


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## CrackerJax (Jan 10, 2010)

Here's how it's done in person ....

[youtube]MjMYQyhjiYA[/youtube]


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## doc111 (Jan 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Here's how it's done in person ....
> 
> [youtube]MjMYQyhjiYA[/youtube]


LMFAO!!!! Kids In the Hall!! That was a blast from the past.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 10, 2010)

They were a riot, no? I loved that show!!


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## PadawanBater (Jan 10, 2010)

lol


Here's something I just found, lmfao!

[youtube]fah5JAyLJTI[/youtube]

Man, lazy Sunday! Can't wait, I think it's about time to spark up another one!


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## growwwww (Jan 10, 2010)

Hmmm some american humour in that sarcasm video - i dont understand im an english cunt whos grown up on this 
[youtube]nKxZSwASrHM[/youtube]


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## CrackerJax (Jan 10, 2010)

I've seen that one before ... still funny as ever!!


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## CrackerJax (Jan 10, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Hmmm some american humour in that sarcasm video - i dont understand im an english cunt whos grown up on this
> [youtube]nKxZSwASrHM[/youtube]



Actually, Kids In the Hall is Canadian.


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## doc111 (Jan 10, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> lol
> 
> 
> Here's something I just found, lmfao!
> ...


Funny stuff! I hope god has a sense of humor, you know, if there is one. lol!


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## PadawanBater (Jan 11, 2010)

[youtube]aTg1OVFh_8g[/youtube]

Think of humanity. The "problems" you face in your day to day life. Racism. The things that are important to you... 

Videos like this one really put it in perspective.

Enjoy.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 11, 2010)

Well, they shouldn't have started with the Himalayas. It was basically brown and drab. They should have started at a Denny's or something like that ... maybe an IHOP.


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## morgentaler (Jan 11, 2010)

The curvature of spacetime around the guy with the big stack and the gallon of syrup is too deep to easily achieve escape velocity.



CrackerJax said:


> Well, they shouldn't have started with the Himalayas. It was basically brown and drab. They should have started at a Denny's or something like that ... maybe an IHOP.


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## CrackerJax (Jan 11, 2010)

Defeated by the evolution of a Maple tree.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 11, 2010)

its the sugar cane, maple on its own is fine add the real butter and sugar then look out gravity


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## CrackerJax (Jan 11, 2010)

Ever have Agave nectar? it's the Bomb! Best ever!


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## robert 14617 (Jan 11, 2010)

had some in tampico , and its around in diff forms here in south texas


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## mexiblunt (Jan 11, 2010)

These are the Daves I know I know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DojefyS4wWI&feature=related


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## PadawanBater (Jan 12, 2010)

[youtube]9stJ8h2ilZU[/youtube]

Here's a reply from TB to Veritas48. Epic pwnage included.


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## krustofskie (Jan 12, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> [youtube]aTg1OVFh_8g[/youtube]
> 
> Think of humanity. The "problems" you face in your day to day life. Racism. The things that are important to you...
> 
> ...


 Gives an idea of what a insignificant speck of dust we are. Good vid.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 12, 2010)

krustofskie said:


> Gives an idea of what a insignificant speck of dust we are. Good vid.


Check out Sagans _Pale Blue Dot!_

Here's a bit of it from youtube;

[youtube]1glvZcJg3oE[/youtube]

This shit should have been in this thread long ago! Arguably the most inspiring passage I've ever heard.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 12, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> [youtube]1glvZcJg3oE[/youtube]


Let's keep IT that way, eh?

Yikes!

Shut Up And Vote


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## mismos00 (Jan 13, 2010)

mexiblunt said:


> These are the Daves I know I know.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DojefyS4wWI&feature=related



Awesome, love The Kids In The Hall!

Has anyone seen their new show that premiered yesterday?

PS. There is/are no God/gods.

[youtube]pkCuc34hvD4[/youtube]


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## mexiblunt (Jan 13, 2010)

No I linked it but didn't catch it! Been stuck on my lapy this week doing very well on pokerstars. lol hard to step away on a roll.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 14, 2010)

Anybody catch Pat Robertsons retarded ass claim that the earthquake in Haiti was because they made a deal with the Devil?

No shit, he actually said it... 

[youtube]f5TE99sAbwM[/youtube]


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## mindphuk (Jan 14, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Anybody catch Pat Robertsons retarded ass claim that the earthquake in Haiti was because they made a deal with the Devil?
> 
> No shit, he actually said it...


Robertson's a tool. 

He's one of the reasons people leave religion and seek out other answers.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 14, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Robertson's a tool.
> 
> He's one of the reasons people leave religion and seek out other answers.



Napoleon III? He meant his uncle, the real Napoleon. Just wanted to sound prophetic AND brainy.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 14, 2010)

They made a deal with the devil haha that's priceless.


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## robert 14617 (Jan 14, 2010)

the deal with the devil was that to have the poorest economy in the world


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## doc111 (Jan 14, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Anybody catch Pat Robertsons retarded ass claim that the earthquake in Haiti was because they made a deal with the Devil?
> 
> No shit, he actually said it...
> 
> [youtube]f5TE99sAbwM[/youtube]


Interesting. I didn't realize that anybody paid attention to Pat Robertson. Well, he'll be happy to know he's not completely irrelevant...............yet.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 14, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Napoleon III? He meant his uncle, the real Napoleon. Just wanted to sound prophetic AND brainy.


lol totally..

"Napoleon...the III.. *or whatever*.."

Fuckin' Brilliant! lmao


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## OrganicOutdoorman (Jan 15, 2010)

Ahoy padawan....I used to be involved thick in the church when i was younger, like sunday school and that sorta shit (purely because of my parents). Never believed any of it for a second just acted to keep everyone happy...till i grew a bit older i realised the church was full of actors. Now my country is the world and my religon is to do good and be happy...by the way my entire family realised what a fuck up that whole experience was...now they are all happier than ever before because they have become spiritual and not religous (which enables you to be and to do what truly makes you happy). peace


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 15, 2010)

When I was too young to drive my life legally, I was expelled from school and served nine months in a kick-ass children's home (repeat Cannabis Offender) where we went to a different church every Sunday.

IT REALly opened my eyes.

Shut Up And Vote


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Anybody catch Pat Robertsons retarded ass claim that the earthquake in Haiti was because they made a deal with the Devil?
> 
> No shit, he actually said it...
> 
> [youtube]f5TE99sAbwM[/youtube]


He has to say crazy stuff today to get news attention....it's pathetic. 

Now he could have simply said France instead of the Devil (and would have been correct), and that may be what he meant, but that wouldn't garner the attention he craves. That guy needs deep therapy ... from some strippers.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 15, 2010)

[youtube]_rcfBaVs09w[/youtube]

Shut Up And Vote


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2010)

I think he's a character on a show, nothing more. The character is whatever the writers decide he is.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 15, 2010)

Can a character identify with a subset of humanisty?

As scientists, our minds seek the number.

Shut Up And Vote


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2010)

U'd have to ask the writers ... but I'd suggest deciphering ur words for them, else they'll just chuck it in the trash can.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 15, 2010)

IT's a good thing we're not sending them letters.

Shut Up And Vote


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2010)

[youtube]Vbovi0XHadU[/youtube]


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## mismos00 (Jan 15, 2010)

Jesus Loves You...

[youtube]-2bpc7LSRZc[/youtube]


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2010)

That's how 90% of the e-mails go too...


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## PadawanBater (Jan 15, 2010)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article5907453.ece

Opinions on the rise of atheism in America?

How long till atheists are the majority?


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## growwwww (Jan 15, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article5907453.ece
> 
> Opinions on the rise of atheism in America?
> 
> How long till atheists are the majority?


I was on the tube today ( in london ) and this suited and booted guy was on a northbound train coming away from the city, he was reading Dawkins "The selfish gene" i got on with my t-shirt which says " God may or may not exist - get over it " and i looked at him, our gazes met and gave each other a confident and sureing nod of acknowledgement to each other. It was good to see and i didint mean to quote this btw but i suppose its kinda relevant 

EDIT: I also just realised how homo-erotic this sounded but whatever!!


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2010)

It wasn't homo erotic, not really. Until you mentioned it....


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## growwwww (Jan 15, 2010)

ahaha i thought the whole " our gazes met " kinda thing was a bit odd but yeaaaa peace and love brethrens im off coz im shattered!!!! 

Cracker what is brazko??


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2010)

Who is Brazko.... a religious fellow poster who tries to use science as a tool to prove religion, but does it quite badly. That sentence was not in response to any of my posts, but I though it brilliantly circular in reasoning. 

Meltdowns are like accidents ... you can't look away.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 15, 2010)

lol, nice groww

I get the same sort of feeling when I'm driving and I see one of those Jesus fish's with the legs underneath that says "Evolve" instead.


But in regards to the question, I'd say within 40 years atheists will be the majority in the United States.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 15, 2010)

Then that means Spiritual Machines will exist in 2013.

I always wanted that tattoo.

Shut Up And Vote


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> lol, nice groww
> 
> I get the same sort of feeling when I'm driving and I see one of those Jesus fish's with the legs underneath that says "Evolve" instead.
> 
> ...


Think so? 40 years? That's a bit steep of an incline. I'd say it might take a tad longer. Tad being untethered to any number lol. 

But that is something I have "faith" in. Man will overcome the superstition one day. Man will grow up eventually, kicking and screaming the whole way I imagine. But that's what we do....so it is what shall be.


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## Katatawnic (Jan 15, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> [youtube]9stJ8h2ilZU[/youtube]
> 
> Here's a reply from TB to Veritas48. Epic pwnage included.


Scott rocks! You may notice him reading his "script" on this video, but if you watch him live in a web chat (met him on stickam.com a couple years ago), you'll see he's just as well spoken in the middle of a debate. Always keeps his cool, too. Would you imagine a soap star being that intelligent? I never would've thunk it till I met him. 



PadawanBater said:


> Anybody catch Pat Robertsons retarded ass claim that the earthquake in Haiti was because they made a deal with the Devil?
> 
> No shit, he actually said it...
> 
> [youtube]f5TE99sAbwM[/youtube]



The guy doing this "commentary" is a "hit and miss" with me... half the time he's great, the other half he's simply an asshole. I found this one to be spot on. 

[youtube]mD4w2N5_jOU[/youtube]



growwwww said:


> ahaha i thought the whole " our gazes met " kinda thing was a bit odd but yeaaaa peace and love brethrens im off coz im shattered!!!!


Yeah, it did sound a bit romantic for a moment there.


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## morgentaler (Jan 15, 2010)

growwwww said:


> EDIT: I also just realised how homo-erotic this sounded but whatever!!


You nodded at each other. A typical social response from two members of the hive acknowledging each other.

If you started licking your lips and rubbing your balls while looking hungrily into each others eyes, THAT would be homo-erotic.

And probably very confusing to the other tube riders.


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## morgentaler (Jan 15, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Think so? 40 years? That's a bit steep of an incline. I'd say it might take a tad longer. Tad being untethered to any number lol.


2 generations can be a significant gap in changing beliefs. In one generation US racial segregation of blacks/whites was almost entirely eliminated. (Though there were still slaves kept as late as 1972! Geez!)

Iran is going to be going through an interesting social upheaval over the next 20 years. There was a good article on Wired or Salon around 2 years ago, talking about the culture shift there.

Basically the clerics wanted to make Iran a bigger force in the area, so they encouraged education in the new generation, rather than stifling it. But now they have a ton of 20 somethings born in the 80s with strong critical reasoning skills, university educations, and the technical know-how to access the world through the internet, so the culture swing from fundamentalism to moderation and outright unbelief is substantial for that area.

The Iran we see in the day to day media is the politics of a generation soon to pass.

And good for that


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## CrackerJax (Jan 15, 2010)

Those changes really came about because of the US Govt. Even so, with segregation, there was a terrific fight over it, and that was WITH the law siding correctly with the blacks.

Think anyone from the Govt. is going to create new law that stymies out religion? Not without a domestic terror war response from Christians. They will not go quietly into the night. They aren't stable enough for that.

So, that leaves it coming about on it's own till there is a tipping point. This still does not mean anything will be done about religion. It just means poll numbers will change. Policy change? Tax change? I don't think so.

We will get there, but I think 40 years is a bit optimistic. In Paddy's article link it stated that most of the gains came in the 90's in the USA, all the way to 14%. A decade later it is now 15%. Sounds like much of the heavy lifting of superstition is still ahead, not behind, and if those rates hold true, it will be quite awhile. 

I hope not.... I'd like to live in a society that doesn't define their lives by a myth.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 16, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Those changes really came about because of the US Govt. Even so, with segregation, there was a terrific fight over it, and that was WITH the law siding correctly with the blacks.
> 
> Think anyone from the Govt. is going to create new law that stymies out religion? Not without a domestic terror war response from Christians. They will not go quietly into the night. They aren't stable enough for that.
> 
> ...


I dunno man, I just look around and see a big shift in a lot of interested people. Those that are seeking out answers come to the internet, with it's insane amount of information available. The internet is a powerful tool. 

Dawkins, Harris, even youtube is a great source of information. 

I think anyone with any common sense at all chooses the right path. I rarely come across intellectually challenging believers, not to say that there aren't smart people who believe in God, just that the correlation can't be ignored. 

Maybe 40 years is a bit of a stretch, but I think the number is just going to keep increasing, especially with a perpetual state of war going on, more people are asking why these conflicts take place, coming to the conclusion that a lot of it stems from religion, and deciding that an ancient belief that can't even be verified isn't worth killing other people over and sending our own people to be killed. 


Hey Kat, I'm interested in how you met Scott, I could tell immediately that guy was smart as hell, he provides some of the more quality content on youtube, he seems like an awesome dude.


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## Miss MeanWeed (Jan 16, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> You nodded at each other. A typical social response from two members of the hive acknowledging each other.
> 
> If you started licking your lips and rubbing your balls while looking hungrily into each others eyes, THAT would be homo-erotic.
> 
> And probably very confusing to the other tube riders.


LOL I've seen that in real life and I was scared


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## OregonMeds (Jan 16, 2010)

Padawan nice sig.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 16, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Padawan nice sig.


lol Thanks man! Just slapped that up there yesterday after a little back and fourth with jeff. 

I especially love how it's so above all other opinions, even with the misspelling of "one" instead of "won"... lmfao


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## shnkrmn (Jan 16, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> lol Thanks man! Just slapped that up there yesterday after a little back and fourth with jeff.
> 
> I especially love how it's so above all other opinions, even with the misspelling of "one" instead of "won"... lmfao


You should include the link to the original post too. I was tired of your old sig; I'd read that thread when it first ran. It was funny, but. Plus it didn't really say much about you.


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## morgentaler (Jan 16, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> You should include the link to the original post too. I was tired of your old sig; I'd read that thread when it first ran. It was funny, but. Plus it didn't really say much about you.


Iraq. Because it's totally not the same as Vietnam when you add sand.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 16, 2010)

[youtube]2FQO1fj1MJU[/youtube]

Shut Up And Vote


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## Katatawnic (Jan 16, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Hey Kat, I'm interested in how you met Scott, I could tell immediately that guy was smart as hell, he provides some of the more quality content on youtube, he seems like an awesome dude.


He's a real good guy.  We used to frequent Stickam, which is a web chat site. Always ended up in the same rooms; "debate" kinda stuff. Took a few months before I realized who he is, because you just don't think about it when you talk with him. I haven't been to Stickam for a while because I haven't found software that'll run my cam on Linux yet, but a friend of mine was visiting just yesterday and said that Scott hasn't been there much lately... I'm sure work keeps him pretty busy.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 21, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> He's a real good guy.  We used to frequent Stickam, which is a web chat site. Always ended up in the same rooms; "debate" kinda stuff. Took a few months before I realized who he is, because you just don't think about it when you talk with him. I haven't been to Stickam for a while because I haven't found software that'll run my cam on Linux yet, but a friend of mine was visiting just yesterday and said that Scott hasn't been there much lately... I'm sure work keeps him pretty busy.


You said he's a soap star? lol that's kinda funny

I've always wondered about his background, got any insight into that?

He's just extremely smart and articulate, really good at explaining things clearly.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 22, 2010)

My atheist friends, do I have a treat for you! 

Look what I stumbled upon;

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794

http://www.mahalo.com/trijicon-weapons-bible-codes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trijicon




> On January 18, 2010, ABC News reported Trijicon was placing references to verses in the Christian Bible in the serial numbers of sights sold to the U.S. Military.[1] Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, said the practice of including the references was started nearly 30 years previously by the company's founder, devout Christian Glyn Bindon, who died in a 2003 plane crash.[2]
> *A spokesman for U.S. Central Command, which manages military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan,* *said the inscribed sights don't violate the military's self-imposed ban on proselytizing because there is no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them.* *"This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used."*[3]
> On January 20, 2010 the BBC reported that the British Ministry of Defence, which had - when unaware of the issue - recently purchased 480 Trijicon sights for use in Afghanistan, but appreciated that the markings could cause offense, and had taken the matter up with the company.[4]
> As news of the biblical inscriptions surfaced, further armed forces became aware of controversial practice. The New Zealand SAS had purchased 260 of the scopes in 2004 and at the time was also unaware of the practice. The New Zealand SAS confirmed they will not stop using the sights as they are considered the best in the world, however has since approached the manufacturer about ways of removing the references.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trijicon#cite_note-4




 

[youtube]kz9W7z5CZVQ[/youtube]




So pretty much, this completely justifies the fanatical Muslims view of America waging a war against Islam, and further serves as a recruitement tool for AQ and the Taliban, fantastic job guys! Keep creatin' those terrorists!


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## mindphuk (Jan 22, 2010)

Padawan, I've been discussing it on another forum for the last few days. Trijicon already announced they wouldn't be on future shipments and give the military a removal instrument to take the references off existing scopes. 
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/01/21/rifles.bibles/index.html?hpt=T2


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## PadawanBater (Jan 22, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Padawan, I've been discussing it on another forum for the last few days. Trijicon already announced they wouldn't be on future shipments and give the military a removal instrument to take the references off existing scopes.
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/01/21/rifles.bibles/index.html?hpt=T2



Disaster averted.

What the fuck were they thinking?! 

Thanks for the link MP, +rep


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## krustofskie (Jan 24, 2010)

Here is a great video (imao) to show any theist that puts forth an argument against atheists. If the question they pose is in it, they need a new question as I think this clip debunks all theists arguments to my satisfaction. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeWpHpl9u-g

It would be great if someone imbed's this clip as I'm an idiot who has failed every time I have tried so I just don't bother anymore.


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## Red Icarus (Jan 24, 2010)

i'm atheist and agnostic. i dont know if a god or gods exist and i couldnt care less.. i live by a strict moral code which includes pacifism. my decisions are governed by reason and morals. i tend to put others first before myself which causes some problems but i dont think i could live any other way. i just cant stand the idea that people seem to have that atheist/agnostic people are a bunch of amoral savages who would slit your throat for fun.


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## PadawanBater (Jan 24, 2010)

krustofskie said:


> Here is a great video (imao) to show any theist that puts forth an argument against atheists. If the question they pose is in it, they need a new question as I think this clip debunks all theists arguments to my satisfaction.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeWpHpl9u-g
> 
> It would be great if someone imbed's this clip as I'm an idiot who has failed every time I have tried so I just don't bother anymore.



[youtube]FeWpHpl9u-g[/youtube]


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## Katatawnic (Jan 26, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> You said he's a soap star? lol that's kinda funny
> 
> I've always wondered about his background, got any insight into that?
> 
> He's just extremely smart and articulate, really good at explaining things clearly.


Well, it appears he was raised with an abundance of love, respect, and intellectual stimulation. I'd say he "just lucked out" with quick wits and a very good upbringing... how all kids should be raised but probably only a small fraction do.

Yeah, he was on _General Hospital_ for 4 or 5 years. Now he's now on _One Life to Live_; I almost started watching the damn show just to "support my friend" but quickly came to my senses... I don't need to get back into a daily TV show I've not watched in over 15 yrs. to be a friend to my friend.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Jan 26, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> how all kids should be raised but probably only a small fraction do.


One of the bright bubbles we tend with daydreams is what IT would look like if human potential were to be maximized in all potential aspects, beginning with identifying processes determining what we are best to be.

[youtube]b018CzxbKMY[/youtube]

*What if IT evolved and flowed up the stairs to the wooden floor of RIU?
* 
Definition

Among the competing understandings of what unites the various currents designated by "Esotericism" in the scholarly sense, perhaps the most influential has been proposed by Antoine Faivre. His definition is based on the presence in these currents of four essential traits: a theory of correspondences, the conviction that nature is a living entity, the need for mediating elements (such as symbols or visions) in order to access spiritual knowledge, and a sense of personal transmutation when arriving at this knowledge. To this are added two less crucial traits. Esotericism sometimes suggests an additional element of initiation. Finally, esotericists frequently suggest that there is a concordance between different religious traditions. It should, however, be emphasized that Faivre's definition is one of several divergent understandings of the most appropriate use of the term.


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## morgentaler (Jan 31, 2010)

Friends and family have been joining a group looking for a missing person.
So far people are clamoring for other people to pray, and some vile asshole claimed he was a paranormal detective and would use his "sensitives" to try and find her.

Snake oil, the bunch of them.

So I felt like getting a little creative:


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## CrackerJax (Jan 31, 2010)

Prayer ... a great way to do nothing and feel good ... about yourself.


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## PadawanBater (Feb 1, 2010)

Guys, I actually sat through a 10 minute prayer this morning! Went to church and everything! Holy shit do I have even more hatred for organized religion!

This motherfucker was sitting there preaching about how Christianity is right and everything else is wrong because the holy spirit is in them (Christians). The circle jerk mindfuck of unbelievably bad reasoning was astounding!

The guy brought up how submarines need huge metal hulls to be able to take the pressure 2 miles below in the Mariana Trench (lmfao!) but that there are also fish down there that don't need hulls like subs have, and that Christians are like that, and so demons can't possess Christians, because the spirit of Jesus that's within them is stronger than any demon spirit trying to influence them!

OMFG I was mad when I left this morning!

Great pic Morgen, fuck prayer, and the stupid retards who practice it. Doing NOTHING is actually better, at least you're not wasting your fuckin' time.


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## MexicanWarlord420 (Feb 1, 2010)




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## CrackerJax (Feb 1, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Guys, I actually sat through a 10 minute prayer this morning! Went to church and everything! Holy shit do I have even more hatred for organized religion!
> 
> This motherfucker was sitting there preaching about how Christianity is right and everything else is wrong because the holy spirit is in them (Christians). The circle jerk mindfuck of unbelievably bad reasoning was astounding!
> 
> ...


Oh, most certainly, once the doors close and the flock is alone..... the things said get so ridiculous. The preacher knows they'll believe just about anything.


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## PadawanBater (Feb 1, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Oh, most certainly, once the doors close and the flock is alone..... the things said get so ridiculous. The preacher knows they'll believe just about anything.


This was one of those smaller churches. When I went there were about 40 people inside. 

I could tell the pastor actually believed the stuff he was saying, and I talk to a couple people who go to this church on a regular basis, and they all seem to believe in pretty much the same way he does. 

I've sat down and spoke with em about this stuff a couple times, it's pretty enjoyable because the friendship thing comes before the atheist/believer feud. 

What I think it is is that they've been around this stuff for so long, literally their whole lives, to see anything else. It's the indoctrination. They don't know any other way, so they can't see how morality can exist without a God to set what's right and wrong for everyone (which the asshat touched on). 

They're smart people in a lot of other categories.. The conclusion I always reach is it's a mix between the indoctrination and the fear of death, non existence. Some people are not ready to accept the fate at the end of the rainbow, it's too much for them.

For me, I never gave a fuck about any of that. My reasoning was pretty much "well, lets get to the bottom of this shit, if there's no hell to fear, what's the point of fearing it? If a god is going to punish me for questioning how I got here and what I'm doing here, I would NEVER worship that god, even if it was real, even if I could prove it, and even if I would spend eternity in the hell that I knew existed as well." That one bit took me from mediocre believer (like 90% of all believers are) to full blown atheist in a matter of 2 years.

And I couldn't be happier about it.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 1, 2010)

That Pastor is a human being and is susceptible to positive reinforcement, just like everyone else. 

Years ago, my wife and I were asked to be godparents to one of my nephews and since they were Catholic, I had to be approved by the church. My relatives were not local so my wife and I went down to a local catholic church where they had a 1st generation Irish Pastor. As soon as I heard his thick accent, I smelled trouble....

Well he finally gets our message and takes us back into his office where there also happens to be a Mexican couple with their young children. The Pastor starts to question me and he asks me if I am a practicing Catholic, and I of course respond no.

Long story short, he starts to inquire about why I don't believe and I start in about the origin of the Bible, and who were the apostles really. Then I looked over at the Mexican couple who at that point stop talking amongst themselves and were beginning to listen.... I just looked at the Pastor and asked him if he really wanted me to continue. Heh...he just puffed on his pipe and signed the papers ... and that was that.

Don't want to spook the herd!!


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## upnorth2505 (Feb 1, 2010)

MexicanWarlord420 said:


>


That is about a coolest picture I have seen in a while! LOL.

I can understand why someone would be a atheist. Christian, muslim, hindu, animist, budist, jew. They can't all be right. Right?

My faith is none of the above. But I do not give up. No, I definately believe in a greater force, a creator, a collective mind/power. A cosmic force that for now is impossible to comprehend. We may never know. For now it is just a mystery of life.


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## PadawanBater (Feb 2, 2010)

[youtube]HF_AOzi1AGg[/youtube]


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 2, 2010)

[youtube]TLq_GKk_Gbs[/youtube]

hoffmann9471 Rocks "This video is dedicated to my friend Natasha = la1880 and to her charity work for blind orphans and blind children in Africa."


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

Paddy, that nailed it well ... like a coffin.


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## PadawanBater (Feb 2, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Paddy, that nailed it well ... like a coffin.


lol, same thing I thought!

Can't wait to catch the other three clips in this series, I'll post em when they're up.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

Look forward to it.... logic is a bitch ain't it..


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## hortguy (Feb 2, 2010)

The problem with Atheism is that there are NO set of morals..there are 6.8 billion people on Earth...so that's 6.8 billion sets of morals...now that could be a problem....


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

Untrue.... please don't try and go through life thinking that the bible is some sort of moral code...it isn't. Unless of course you have never read it. 

Jesus had no problem with slavery ... where's the moral code there?

The Bible has no problem with infanticide... where's the morals there?

It's nothing to emulate....


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 2, 2010)

hortguy said:


> The problem with Atheism is that there are NO set of morals..there are 6.8 billion people on Earth...so that's 6.8 billion sets of morals...now that could be a problem....


[youtube]XGK84Poeynk[/youtube]


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## morgentaler (Feb 2, 2010)

hortguy said:


> The problem with Atheism is that there are NO set of morals..there are 6.8 billion people on Earth...so that's 6.8 billion sets of morals...now that could be a problem....


If, by morality, you mean a set of rules and conduct that you only live by under fear of an invisible man torturing you by eternity... then you'd be correct.

But many people don't need the threat of eternal damnation to prevent their raping and murdering their neighbors. If you're one of the people that does, you're not the kind of person I want for a neighbor. After all, what happens if you start to lose faith.

Social altruism in pack animals existed long before any bible. The idea that you can do good for another member of the pack and it is beneficial for the pack as a whole has been a strong force for the continuation species in inhospitable environments.

If you really feel that the bible gives you some kind of moral superiority, consider that if YOU were to be taken back to the time that book was written they would almost certainly find some discretion on your part which violates that morality. And it would possibly result in your death.
Enjoy your hypocrisy.


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## PadawanBater (Feb 2, 2010)

hortguy said:


> The problem with Atheism is that there are NO set of morals..there are 6.8 billion people on Earth...so that's 6.8 billion sets of morals...now that could be a problem....



"Morality" is a concept invented and explained up by man, passed down to us for thousands of generations as an evolutionary advantage over other organisms. Altruism, empathy, sympathy, etc... all make up what we interpret morality to be. It's just that we've evolved to the point _now_ where we can explain such things with language. 

If you believe such a thing as "objective morality" exists, then you certainly have a lot of explaining to do...

-slavery
-basic ecosystems that rely on the death of one creature or organism for others to survive
-the fact that there are countless different doctrines and ideologies that claim moral superiority, and the likelihood of choosing the correct one
-the fact that I could come up with ten commandments that would put any existing gods to shame
-illogical inconsistencies (countless ones)
-the lack of evidence


As an atheist, I choose what is right and wrong based on common sense, my sense of empathy, and more often than not, what is best for the population at large, the species, because I want to make whatever small contribution to the future that I can. 

You are born with a sense of right and wrong. You weren't created with it, you were endowed with it via the natural process of evolution, because it is advantageous for you to know what is good for other members of your species and what isn't.


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## nationtoxic (Feb 2, 2010)

Religion in my opinion is made up bullshit, a way to control the masses especially back than that's why everybody was making different variants to suit there needs at the time all the leaders were treating the general public like shit and gave them something to believe that has been modified throughout the thousands of years.

Perfect example the movie 10,000 BC the pharaoh comes out and tens of thousands of slaves kneel on the ground being there was only a few thousand guards and they think hes godly but are to afraid to find out for themselves I think this is where all this derived from. Just basic control those slaves can't help themselves there uneducated and back than they believed in all the crap which was believed by word of mouth and than written down there you go the bible. 

Religion has many dark sides some of them contain no morale story but we only hear the morality of it all especially in school yes maybe it does teach you how to be a better person but obsessing about it.... not a chance


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## xXF0RE20Xx (Feb 2, 2010)

Religion is wrong period. So many wars have been caused because someone believed in something else. So many people who pray to their supposed gods, get nothing in return. Live your life based on what your know, if something good happened to you, it just happened, "god" nor "jesus" had anything to do with it. Same if something "bad" happened. Life is luck and chances.....not some thought up plan by some fucked up douche thinking it was ok to scare the population into believing it.


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## N8fACt0R (Feb 2, 2010)

Remember, diversity ( in all its forms ) gives life a better chance to continue. Please, strive to educate yourself and then formulate an opinion. A person who is unread and has no formal education has only their individual feelings and opinions to base their thoughts upon. Give yourself the chance to learn and do not close your mind to the possibilities that exist. The earth is large, but our own world is very small. - I hope the best for all of you


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

Diversity of species.... perhaps.

But believing in myths is not diversity. An incorrect conclusion or belief is simply that...incorrect. 

It's not a balancing act.


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## N8fACt0R (Feb 2, 2010)

I stand by my statement. Diversity ( in all its forms ) promotes survival.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

Nonsense. Diversity in the realms of ideals is fine, but only if correct. 

Hitler had ideas and beliefs.... did it promote survival? 

Ideas are either correct or they aren't.... it's not a tapestry where incorrect ideas hold the same fabric together...no, they fray the edges.


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## N8fACt0R (Feb 2, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Nonsense. Diversity in the realms of ideals is fine, but only if correct.
> 
> Hitler had ideas and beliefs.... did it promote survival?
> 
> Ideas are either correct or they aren't.... it's not a tapestry where incorrect ideas hold the same fabric together...no, they fray the edges.


How can any one person or for that manner any number of persons determine what is a correct ideal for any other person than themselves? This is the basis of freedom, and to believe you can determine a "universal truth" is not only egotistical, but proves that you are arguing a position that is based upon personal opinion, not fact. "We" (the population of the world) are individuals capable and in fact demanding of the ability to choose. You make the reference that Hitler did not promote life, but let me point out that while Hitler is associated with the death of many Jews, Hitler was in fact attempting to create what he believed to be a "master race" that would enable life to have a better chance of survival. You ask, Did Hitlers beliefs promote survival? In fact yes they indirectly did. While Hitler did bring about the holocaust, which as we all know resulted in many deaths, do not disregard the importance of the lesson taught to every man, woman, and child regarding the manner in which not only nations but the people of those nations need conduct themselves and handle diversity. Remember, when a bone breaks the mend is stronger than the original. PS- Im Jewish


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## PadawanBater (Feb 2, 2010)

N8fACt0R said:


> How can any one person or for that manner any number of persons determine what is a correct ideal for any other person than themselves? This is the basis of freedom, and to believe you can determine a "universal truth" is not only egotistical, but proves that you are arguing a position that is based upon personal opinion, not fact. "We" (the population of the world) are individuals capable and in fact demanding of the ability to choose. You make the reference that Hitler did not promote life, but let me point out that while Hitler is associated with the death of many Jews, Hitler was in fact attempting to create what he believed to be a "master race" that would enable life to have a better chance of survival. You ask, Did Hitlers beliefs promote survival? In fact yes they indirectly did. While Hitler did bring about the holocaust, which as we all know resulted in many deaths, do not disregard the importance of the lesson taught to every man, woman, and child regarding the manner in which not only nations but the people of those nations need conduct themselves and handle diversity. Remember, when a bone breaks the mend is stronger than the original. PS- Im Jewish


Thus the importance of *SCIENCE* my friend.

It can't be emphasized enough.

The good of something, an ideal, a theory, a medical procedure, can be measured via science. The bad ones get discarded. I agree with you that diversity is good, in that it allows us to see the way we went wrong and thus improve upon the information we have and continue to gain knowledge. 

But we have ways to weed out correct ideas from incorrect ideas. Those ideas that are incorrect, whether the people who believe in them believe they get some kind of comfort or not, they're dangerous to the rest of us, and the price we pay for it is unacceptable.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

N8fACt0R said:


> How can any one person or for that manner any number of persons determine what is a correct ideal for any other person than themselves? This is the basis of freedom, and to believe you can determine a "universal truth" is not only egotistical, but proves that you are arguing a position that is based upon personal opinion, not fact. "We" (the population of the world) are individuals capable and in fact demanding of the ability to choose. You make the reference that Hitler did not promote life, but let me point out that while Hitler is associated with the death of many Jews, Hitler was in fact attempting to create what he believed to be a "master race" that would enable life to have a better chance of survival. You ask, Did Hitlers beliefs promote survival? In fact yes they indirectly did. While Hitler did bring about the holocaust, which as we all know resulted in many deaths, do not disregard the importance of the lesson taught to every man, woman, and child regarding the manner in which not only nations but the people of those nations need conduct themselves and handle diversity. Remember, when a bone breaks the mend is stronger than the original. PS- Im Jewish


So murder is an acceptable idea? 

We determine if ideas are correct or not by EXAMINING them. All ideas are not equal.

Religion is at the bottom of the pile as far as testable ideas. 

The bottom....


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## N8fACt0R (Feb 2, 2010)

We have gained the ability to determine what is good and what is harmful through an intricate process of natural selection and trial and error. Truly, what we believe is correct is that which we believe will sustain us.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

Ur very confused.... ideas are not connected to natural selection.

You need to crack some books laddy. Lots of them.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

Religion isn't an idea... it's a myth.

And the "natural selection" has been earned by blood and persecution.

Is that how we should winnow ideas? 

Or should they be judged on merit and validity?

Religion cannot be validated..... only believed without evidence. 

Again, that's not an idea.... that's myth.

Let's just bring back Mithra then ... since it's as valid as Christianity or any other modern religion.

I think you mean memes perhaps...which is quite different. Religion as a meme has been successful,because of blood, but it doesn't mean it is a beneficial meme. And it is not beneficial, but holds us back. Put down the fairy tale and face life as it is, not as you wish it to be. That's for children.


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## Sustainable420 (Feb 2, 2010)

I tend to be more of a freethinker myself, but I know the limits of the scientific method. I'm currently an agnostic-atheist, or vice versa. The positive turning of my life thus far was reading the book 50 Reasons People Give For Believing in a God. It's not theology philosophy by any means, but it gives perspective to living on this rock.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 2, 2010)

Life is hard.... and man is scared of the knowledge of his own mortality. 

and that's why ppl are drawn to religion.... not because it's correct. Any objective reading and utilization of the simplest of logic shows it cannot possibly be correct.

It's a crutch, and I understand that many folks still need it, but I wonder how many really need it, other than that they've been indoctrinated since childhood that they do.


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## N8fACt0R (Feb 2, 2010)

LOL, I have just recently received my PHD in Philosophy from Berkeley. Perhaps you should re-read the above comment. You should focus on the part where I mentioned that it was a combination of natural selection AND trial and error. Since you failed to grasp that part of the comment I can very clearly understand why you would be confused. Perhaps this site may help you better understand some part of what I am attempting to convey.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...0_0/history_01


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## N8fACt0R (Feb 2, 2010)

Here is the link again,http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/history_01


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## krustofskie (Feb 3, 2010)

This made me laugh, enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I225Vcs3X0g&feature=rec-rev-rn-1r-3-HM


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 3, 2010)

N8fACt0R said:


> LOL, I have just recently received my PHD in Philosophy from Berkeley.


 
We, for one, are very glad someone with real paper's showed on the scene.

[youtube]DWs0xfOy6Qw[/youtube]



Woodstock.Hippie said:


> [youtube]XGK84Poeynk[/youtube]


Was Sagan A Spiritual Secularist?


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## shnkrmn (Feb 3, 2010)

An unprecedented leap in RIU bullshit. Nice work N8

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't pass the qualifying examination for admission to Berkeley's philosophy grad program.

Just sayin'



N8fACt0R said:


> LOL, I have just recently received my PHD in Philosophy from Berkeley. Perhaps you should re-read the above comment. You should focus on the part where I mentioned that it was a combination of natural selection AND trial and error. Since you failed to grasp that part of the comment I can very clearly understand why you would be confused. Perhaps this site may help you better understand some part of what I am attempting to convey.
> 
> http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...0_0/history_01


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## CrackerJax (Feb 3, 2010)

Please explain how religion passes the trial and error phase. Please exclude the violence behind the church, unless you accept that as criteria. Delusion is acceptable if it's popular enough?

lawdy...it's like shooting fish in a barrel.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 3, 2010)

I gotta rep you for being relevant for once



Woodstock.Hippie said:


> We, for one, are very glad someone with real paper's showed on the scene.
> 
> [youtube]_9Wx6-c8VSo[/youtube]
> 
> ...


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## CrackerJax (Feb 3, 2010)

Gee, G*D made a vid..... it all falls back to nonsense and man made authors.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 3, 2010)

[youtube]H-RlKtkFke4[/youtube]

DarkMatter2525 Rocks!


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## xXF0RE20Xx (Feb 3, 2010)

I overheard a conversation n the grocery store today, some lady claiming "God helped her son get off drugs". Perfect example of the weak-willed and simple minded. I dont know about anyone else, but i use crutches when my leg is broke or something..Oh and way to belittle your son too lady, no way should he get the credit, lets give it to a fairytale character. What process did that entail anyway? He quit by reading.......? Fuck if thats all it takes go to a Barnes & Nobles.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 3, 2010)

She undercuts her son..... nice.


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## PadawanBater (Feb 4, 2010)

Saw this story tonight about a 16 year old kid who shot his father in the head, then shot his mother in the head, then dragged her across the house, then because she was still alive, shot her two more times in the face, then once in the chest. Walked back in, sat next to the father and placed the gun in his hands and tried to make the scene look like a murder/suicide. 

The father was still alive.

This man forgave his son for attempting to murder him, and successfully murdering his wife, and stood in his defense at his trial after recovering.

He attributed the strength he gained to forgive his son to God.


What did you get from this story?


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## xXF0RE20Xx (Feb 4, 2010)

wow, so many things come to mind when i see this post. Whatever happened to thumpers having those "morals" your son shoots you, and kills your wife, yet god gave your the "strength of forgiveness" way to turn the other cheek. And whatever happened to "honor thy mother and father" and the age old "thou shalt not kill", and b4 u thumpers speak up and say "dont talk about it unless you know about it blah blah blah...." i went to church 16 of my 22 years....anyway, i think the father in this scenario is just as much to fault as the son here......defend the boy after he kills your wife, and hurts you, way to condone violence. Did ur son get paid afterwards?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 4, 2010)

[youtube]VWAUhadJzTk[/youtube]


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## xXF0RE20Xx (Feb 4, 2010)

haha


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## CrackerJax (Feb 4, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Saw this story tonight about a 16 year old kid who shot his father in the head, then shot his mother in the head, then dragged her across the house, then because she was still alive, shot her two more times in the face, then once in the chest. Walked back in, sat next to the father and placed the gun in his hands and tried to make the scene look like a murder/suicide.
> 
> The father was still alive.
> 
> ...



We shouldn't have kids???


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## xXF0RE20Xx (Feb 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> We shouldn't have kids???


    or at least not feed them after midnight


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## CrackerJax (Feb 4, 2010)

Bed restraints???


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 4, 2010)

We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.
 Adolf Hitler, Berlin, 1933


*Hitler Was a Christian*​ *The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalism:*​ ​ History is currently being distorted by the millions of Christians who lie to have us believe that the Holocaust was not a Christian deed. Through subterfuge and concealment, many of todays Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian in order to place his misdeeds on those with out Jesus. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. Those who would make Hitler an atheist should turn their eyes to history books before they address their pews and chat rooms.
Considering that Christianity has thus far been incapable of producing an unbiased, educated follower which speaks the truth, (I havent encountered any), I have been forced to dispel the myth by writing this essay. It is not until I bring up his speeches, my personal info on the Nazi regime and their tactics that a Christian will begin to question what their clergy told them. (I am the offspring of a German soldier. My Opa served under Hitler in WW2 and my father was raised during the time of the Nazi regime. This is important information to take into consideration for I am privy to some info that most Americans do not know. It is common for American media and education institutions to lie to their citizens concerning Nazi Germany.) So, in presenting this information I must break it into four parts: 1) Facts about Hitler and his involvement with the Church. 2) How the Church was the catalyst for anti- Semitism. 3) Facts concerning how the Nazi regime drilled these beliefs into Germanic society. 4) Quotes Hitler made which prove he had a disdain for atheism/occultism, upheld his Christian faith, and hated Jews due to his Christianity.

* Hitlers involvement with the Church:*
a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.
b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monasterys coat of arms bearing a swastika.)
c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.
d) As a young man he was confirmed as a soldier of Christ. His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal. -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and avenging for God in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.
f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie. Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party




g) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitlers birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.
Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars. (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitlers Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)
h) Due to Hitlers involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today. Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church. -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism

* How Christianity was the catalyst of the Holocaust:*
Hitlers anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Austria and Germany were majorly Christian during his time and they held the belief that Jews were an inferior status to Aryan Christians. The Christians blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus. Jewish hatred did not actually spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, On the Jews and their Lies, Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War 2. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther constantly quoting his works and beliefs.
Now, you must remember before Hitler rose to Chancellor of Germany the country was in a deep economic depression due to the Versailles treaty. The Versailles treaty demanded that Germans made financial reparations for the previous war and Germany simply was not self sufficient enough in order to pay the debt. Hitler was the leader that raised Germany out of the depression and brought them back to a world recognized power. Due to his annulment of the financial woes of the Germanic people he became their redeemer and they anointed him as the leader of the German Reich Christian Church in 1933. This placed him in power of the German Christian Socialist movement which legislates their political and religious agendas. It united all denominations, mainly the Protestant/Catholic and Lutheran people to instill faith in a national Christianity.

* How the Nazi Regime converted the people:*
a) In the 1920s, Hitlers German Workers Party (pre Nazi term) adopted a Programme with twenty-five points (the Nazi version of a constitution). In point twenty-four, their intent clearly demonstrates, from the very beginning, their stand in favor of a positive Christianity: We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession...
b) The Nazi regime started a youth movement which preached its agenda to impressionable children. Hitler backed up the notion that all people need faith and religious education: By helping to raise man above the level of bestial vegetation, faith contributes in reality to the securing and safeguarding of his existence. Take away from present-day mankind its education-based, religious- dogmatic principles-- or, practically speaking, ethical-moral principles-- by abolishing this religious education, but without replacing it by an equivalent, and the result will be a grave shock to the foundations of their existence.  Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
c) The Nazi regime began to control schools insisting that Christianity was taught.
d) The Nazi regime included anti-Semitic Christian writings in textbooks and they were not removed from Christian doctrines until 1961.
e) The Nazi regime having full blown power over the people began to forcibly convert all its military.




f) The Nazi regime forced the German soldiers to wear religious symbols such as the swastika and they placed religious sayings on military gear. An example here is this German army belt buckle (I believe my Opa had one) which reads Gott Mit Uns. For those of you who do not speak German it is translated as God With Us.
g) The German troops were often forced to get sprinkled with holy water and listen to a sermon by a Catholic priest before going out on a maneuver.
h) The Nazis created a secret service called the SS Reich that would act as spies on the dealings of other citizens. If anyone was suspected of heresy (Going not only against the Socialist party but CHURCH DOCTRINE) they would be prosecuted.

* Quotes from Hitler:*
Hitlers speeches and proclamations, even more clearly, reveal his faith and feelings toward a Christianized Germany. Nazism presents an embarrassment to Christianity and demonstrates the danger of their faith So they try to pin him on other theistic views. The following words from Hitler show his disdain for atheism, and pagan cults, and reveal the strength of his Christian feelings:
_National Socialism is not a cult-movement-- a movement for worship; it is exclusively a volkic political doctrine based upon racial principles. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship... We will not allow mystically- minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else-- in any case something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will-- not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men._ -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg on 6 Sept.1938. [Christians have always accused Hitler of believing in pagan cult mythology. What is written here clearly expresses his stand against cults.]
_We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out._ -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism. Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy. The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]
Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism: 
_"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, Gods truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."_ Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
_ "Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." _-Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is quite obvious here that Hitler is referring to destructing the Judaism alters on which Christianity was founded.)
_"The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew."_ -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (The idea of the devil and the Jew came out of medieval anti-Jewish beliefs based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this tradition up until the 20th century.)
_"With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people."_ -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is common in war for one race to rape another so that they can defile the race and assimilate their own. Hitler speaks about this very tactic here.) 
_The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present- day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation._Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
_"the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion."_ -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (See Genesis Chapter 3 where humankind is cast from Eden for their sins. Hitler compares this to the need to exterminate the Jews for their sin against Christ.)
_Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord._ Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
_The anti-Semitism of the new movement _[Christian Social movement] _was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge._ Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (This quote is very interesting for it disperses the idea that Hitler raged war due to being an Aryan supremacist. He states quite clearly that he has a problem with Jews for their belief not race. That is why many German Jews died in WW2 regardless of their Aryan nationality.)
_Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain._ Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (Here Hitler is admitting that his war against the Jews were so successful because of his strong Christian Spirituality.)
* Quotes from Other Nazis about Hitler and Religion:*
_ "Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Gobbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church, he said, although he had no real attachment to it. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide." _(_Inside the Third Reich_ by Albert Speer page 95-96) 

http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm


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## CrackerJax (Feb 4, 2010)

Bingo........


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## PadawanBater (Feb 7, 2010)

[youtube]7YYVPGwk0ac&feature=sub[/youtube]

Part 2, with just as much pwnage.


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 7, 2010)

a special image?

[youtube]R_bTiAwxYPU[/youtube]

Remember how St. Peter Was Crucified?

Hippie Tip For PadawanBater to add substance to an otherwise insubstantial post:

*The Blue Sun Corporation Is Significant For Some Fireflies.*


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## zKnOcK0uTz (Feb 7, 2010)

Padawan, I firmly believe what you have written about in this forum. Here is my opinion. I am not an athiest, I am part of the catholic church. Right now i feel as if everything i learned in catholic school about God and all that is right. In this world, there are 2 types of people, followers and leaders. A follower's interpretation of the things said in the bible, or in religion class is different than a leaders interpretation. Bob marley stated that God is not a spirit from above, he is a living man. Understanding this statement is the first step to truely understanding the purpose of religion.


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## PadawanBater (Feb 7, 2010)

zKnOcK0uTz said:


> Padawan, I firmly believe what you have written about in this forum. Here is my opinion. I am not an athiest, I am part of the catholic church. Right now i feel as if everything i learned in catholic school about God and all that is right. In this world, there are 2 types of people, followers and leaders. A follower's interpretation of the things said in the bible, or in religion class is different than a leaders interpretation. Bob marley stated that God is not a spirit from above, he is a living man. Understanding this statement is the first step to truely understanding the purpose of religion.


Hey zKnOcK0uTz, thanks for your comment.

What makes you believe Catholicism is correct? What evidence have you seen to support the validity of it?


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## Babs34 (Feb 7, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> [youtube]7YYVPGwk0ac&feature=sub[/youtube]
> 
> Part 2, with just as much pwnage.


*Well now, if that just isn't a straight shot of truth, I just don't know what is.*
 *...How could one even posibly question the non-existence of God after having viewed "this?" *


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 7, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *Well now, if that just isn't a straight shot of truth, I just don't know what is.*
> *...How could one even posibly question the non-existence of God after having viewed "this?" *


[youtube]l3VOa2F_BzM[/youtube]


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## PadawanBater (Feb 7, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *Well now, if that just isn't a straight shot of truth, I just don't know what is.*
> *...How could one even posibly question the non-existence of God after having viewed "this?" *



And yet you didn't even attempt to refute any of it.

Your absence of substance speaks volumes, again.


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## Babs34 (Feb 7, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> And yet you didn't even attempt to refute any of it.
> 
> Your absence of substance speaks volumes, again.


"Blah.....blah, blah, ba blah. 
It was just that damn boring......not worthy of adding substance to, yanno? There was really nothing to "take" from viewing it.


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## Babs34 (Feb 7, 2010)

Woodstock.Hippie said:


> [youtube]BREvUKpZTeU[/youtube]


This video has been removed due to terms of use violation???
--thinking I may have missed a worthy video--
Rock on Hippie!!!!!!!!!!


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## PadawanBater (Feb 7, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> "Blah.....blah, blah, ba blah.
> It was just that damn boring......not worthy of adding substance to, yanno? There was really nothing to "take" from viewing it.


It was 3 minutes. You can't sit through 3 minutes of video?

Here, I'll lay it all out in text for you instead...

-how could God be certain of his own omniscience?

(excluding responses like "it's possible for God to know he's omniscient because he is omniscient")

-a. if God is truly omniscient...
then God would think that he is omniscient
-b. if God is mistaken in his omniscience...
then God would still think that he is omniscient

Both scenarios lead to the same conclusion, therefore it is impossible for God to know with absolute certainty which premise he is working from, a or b.

To put it more formally;

1. If God exists, he knows the truth-value of all propositions with certainty
2. To know all propositions with absolute certainty, God must know with absolutey certainty that proposition "God is not mistaken" is true
3. If God is mistaken, he would not know that he is mistaken

Conclusion;

God cannot know the truth-value of the proposition "God is not mistaken" with absolute certainty

and so, if you take this farther and if you apply the omniscience character trait to your God, then *God cannot exist*.

I'll be awaiting your reply.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 7, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Hey zKnOcK0uTz, thanks for your comment.
> 
> What makes you believe Catholicism is correct? What evidence have you seen to support the validity of it?


Actually, he is stating that he is a follower....


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## Babs34 (Feb 7, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> It was 3 minutes. You can't sit through 3 minutes of video?
> 
> Here, I'll lay it all out in text for you instead...
> 
> ...


 *Tipsy and a few breaths away from deep sleep*
*---1) True, He does. No mistakes involved.*
*---2) Circular reasoning? God only proves Himself to those who FIRST have faith even as small as the mustard seed. (Metaphor, mind you)*
*---3) Huh?  *
*Numerous fight that sown seed with all their might.
"If" He is mistaken? God made no mistakes---intentionally known as mistakes, mishaps, or otherwise havoc as known to mankind. We created it all Padawan...yeap, ALL of it. Free will has a price. .....imagine that.*


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## CrackerJax (Feb 7, 2010)

The Bible starts out with a lie in sophistry from the get go.

Let's break it down real quick, because it should already be obvious to any who have actually THOUGHT about it.

Genesis.... Garden of Eden.... all this is yours.... blah blah blah..... paradise .... blah blah blah.... just don't eat from this one tree.... blah blah blah ..... Ooops... you ate it.... ur screwed..... blah blah blah.... 

Right? that's the Garden of Eden for dummies version.... K? That's pretty much how the story goes... 


G*D is not confined by the time space continuum.... okay....got it.

G*D is all knowing...cannot be fooled or deceived...okay....got it.

Here's the BIG LIE....

G*D was lying when he told ADAM & EVE that they could live in paradise. G*D already knew they would fail that test. G*D knew they were doomed to misery.... and yet he lies to them right up front. 

G*D waves the ILLUSION that they may live in a paradise, already knowing they will not.

And that's why the Bible isn't the word of G*D..... just made up....and not made up very well either.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 8, 2010)

I guess god wouldn't make a very ethical humanist. . . Most of its actions in the bible seem to be motivated by excessive self-regard, a very human condition.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 8, 2010)

Gee, imagine that. How could that have happened? 

It sure seems to be a self serving book doesn't it...


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## morgentaler (Feb 8, 2010)

It god existed and was human, he'd certainly deserve to be executed for his past crimes.

Oooooh... 



shnkrmn said:


> I guess god wouldn't make a very ethical humanist. . . Most of its actions in the bible seem to be motivated by excessive self-regard, a very human condition.


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## PadawanBater (Feb 8, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *Tipsy and a few breaths away from deep sleep*
> *---1) True, He does. No mistakes involved.*
> *---2) Circular reasoning? God only proves Himself to those who FIRST have faith even as small as the mustard seed. (Metaphor, mind you)*
> *---3) Huh?  *
> ...


...you did exactly what I said *NOT* to do. 

"EXCLUDING responses like "it's possible for God to know he's omniscient because he's omniscient"

*THAT* is circular logic. 

2. God only proves himself to those who first have faith?

-he's the one that dishes out the faith, is he not? Why would he create some people more susceptible to having faith and some less? (why have faith involved in belief at all? God is also the one who makes up the rules of logic, is he not? So why even bring what we define as 'faith' into it at all?)

3. Refer to the a./b. scenario I laid out earlier.

If God reaches the same conclusion either way, that is - he believes he is omniscient, whether he is in fact omniscient or is not, it does not affect the actual outcome of reality, so there is no way, even for God, to know if he is actually omniscient, or if he only believes he is. 

The rules of logic do not permit omniscience, therefore, if your God requires this character trait, your god cannot exist.

Pretty simple right?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 8, 2010)

[youtube]U7PGppVNq2g[/youtube]


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## Katatawnic (Feb 13, 2010)

Night before last, hubby brings home a Valentine's Day "goodie bag" a coworker had made and "relinquishes" it to me. (He rarely eats candy, so being full of chocolate, it was immediately mine. lol) So late into the evening I cheerfully reach into the bag to have a chocolate reward, and pull out a little scroll. It's a "dear friend" letter, much like you'd find in the "forward this to 100 friends" chain emails, and it of course was boring as hell. Getting impatient, I finally skip all the droning and just look at the "signature" at the bottom of the scroll, which says...

"Your friend, Jesus"

There are several more papers in the bag, pink and folded prettily. I already knew what they'd contain... sure enough, quotes from the Bible printed on each and every one of them!

WTF?!  This isn't Christmas or Easter! It's Valentine's Day! The last thing in the world I want is to get a "love letter" from Jesus for the one day of the year that is meant for celebrating romantic love!

I show the utmost respect to my family and friends RE: their religious beliefs. So long as others' religion doesn't directly affect me, I'm beyond tolerant; which is much more than can be said of the treatment I've received for not believing what others want me to believe along with them. I do NOT walk up to people and start in on them about religion and tell them why they shouldn't believe what they do (including in forum threads such as this one, as anyone who's read my posts can verify), so why do so many religious people feel it's their right to do it to me? Is it really too much to ask others not to spoil a 100% non-religious holiday with a "love letter" from Jesus and Bible quotes mixed in with heart-shaped chocolates?

Talk about *literally* shoving religion down one's throat! 

I was so turned off by this, I literally had no more desire for that chocolate... and I was in the middle of a munchies attack, mind you!


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## undertheice (Feb 13, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Talk about *literally* shoving religion down one's throat!


as atheists, you and i may see this as shoving religion down our throats, but take a moment to look at it from someone else's point of view. what the nonbeliever may see as an intrusion, the believer may see as merely sharing one of their most precious gifts, the joyous love of their god. on a day dedicated to love, what could be more appropriate?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 13, 2010)

just as we love you too for feeling the need to deny their gods.

[youtube]dk_RtLayZqY[/youtube]


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## Katatawnic (Feb 13, 2010)

undertheice said:


> as atheists, you and i may see this as shoving religion down our throats, but take a moment to look at it from someone else's point of view. what the nonbeliever may see as an intrusion, the believer may see as merely sharing one of their most precious gifts, the joyous love of their god. on a day dedicated to love, what could be more appropriate?


RE: the "literally shoving religion down one's throat" remark, that was a bit of a joke... Bible quotes and a "love letter" from Jesus wrapped around chocolates that would, indeed, go down one's throat.

This wasn't just sharing one's love for God. I'm not kidding when I say the scroll was a "love letter" from Jesus. Sorry, but that was just... creepy. And Bible quotes for a Valentine's Day gift? Even my fanatical aunt wouldn't make a gift bag like this for a day of celebrating romance, and she can rarely say one sentence without "God" in it.

I have no problem with people saying to me, "I'll pray for you" when I'm going through hard times, as that is how they empathize with and support others. I respectfully bow my head when family and friends wish to say grace before dinner on Christmas and Easter; even Thanksgiving as I understand they want to thank their god for all they have. I accept that they believe their god gave them life and all that goes with it, and really don't care that it says "In God We Trust" on our money, etc. So long as religion stays out of my personal life and my rights, I have absolutely no problem with it and have absolute respect for it.

That said, I have the right to enjoy a holiday of romance (BTW, I've been rather cynical for years and didn't acknowledge Valentine's Day or my birthday, etc., but decided this year to celebrate more days/things and have more fun) without receiving a letter "from Jesus" telling me how much "he" loves and longs for and waits for and desires me. It really was creepy.


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## mexiblunt (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm guessing your hubby is tolerant of his co-workers beliefs?


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## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 13, 2010)

[youtube]hOLAGYmUQV0[/youtube]


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## Katatawnic (Feb 13, 2010)

mexiblunt said:


> I'm guessing your hubby is tolerant of his co-workers beliefs?


He had no idea what was in the bag, because he never opened it. Like I said, he doesn't eat candy. He brought it home and immediately handed it to me. I always get the goodies handed out by his coworkers. 

That said, he and I are both extremely tolerant of others' beliefs and lifestyle choices that differ from ours, etc. (I didn't call up the woman who made the gift bag and blast her for it; I simply shared my disdain and creepy feeling about it with fellow atheists in an atheist thread. lol) Further, though he's far from religious, he does believe there's "some kind of higher power out there" (his words). He doesn't try to convince me of his belief, and I don't try to convince him not to believe it. We don't feel the need, nor desire, to share our personal beliefs with anyone and everyone... nor to have others' personal beliefs constantly shared with us.


----------



## mexiblunt (Feb 13, 2010)

I woulda just tossed the junk and ate the candy. Just like the good eats after my family says their prayer.


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 13, 2010)

It's simply how cults operate.


----------



## Katatawnic (Feb 13, 2010)

mexiblunt said:


> I woulda just tossed the junk and ate the candy. Just like the good eats after my family says their prayer.


Oh, I finished it off the next night. Never waste good chocolate! 



CrackerJax said:


> It's simply how cults operate.


Indeed.


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 13, 2010)

[youtube]hL2HGmMsQus[/youtube]


----------



## mexiblunt (Feb 13, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Oh, I finished it off the next night. Never waste good chocolate!
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.


 Good, I just couldn't figure why you couldn't eat the goodies?


----------



## Katatawnic (Feb 13, 2010)

Haven't you ever been so turned off by something that it just killed your appetite? Kinda like a buzz kill, if you will.


----------



## mexiblunt (Feb 13, 2010)

Not really no(maybe the food itself), I understand tho I know others like that. In this case it wouldn't have crossed my mind maybe a little chuckle for the thought and then chow down!! Things I don't believe in tend to not bug me much.


----------



## PadawanBater (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah, that kinda stuff creeps me out too!

I was in that church service a couple weeks back and a similar thing happened. There's this guy I know whose married to an ex-coworker of mine, both of them are reeeeally religious, almost on the brink of fundie, she even told me once that the theory of evolution is nothing more "than a fairy tale for adults", and suggested a few books by creationists for me to read. But they're both also the type who don't really attempt to "preach" to people, which is probably why I respect both of them much more than your typical creationist/fundie. So he sings in the church services before the actual ministry goes on, with his guitar and some other chick singin' in the background. The songs were original, made up by the guy, and daaamn, thaaat's the creepy part!

"I waaan't you... In me"
"I feeel you.. In me"

lyrics such as those...inside church... oh man, the whole time I couldn't stop thinking about how I wish I had some sort of recording device to capture this moment! lol..

Meanwhile everyone inside thinks they feel the holy spirit or whatever and believes it's OK to lose control of yourself because it's a religiously motivated moment. In what other context in any of our social lives is it acceptable to do or say whatever you want with no boundaries or limits? Such behavior is seen as acceptable in our society because religion is off limits. This is a problem. Everything should be questioned, everything. 

Furthermore, how could someone argue these types of institutions are NOT cults? It's clearly a cult. They just happen to have a lot more members than you're typical Heavens Gate... If there were 2.2 billion KKK members, would you be a racist?! You gotta learn to rise above the group mentality, and it actually takes a conscious effort to do it.

and that concludes my stoned rant about the creepy stuff in organized religion for today...


----------



## Katatawnic (Feb 13, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> The songs were original, made up by the guy, and daaamn, thaaat's the creepy part!
> 
> "I waaan't you... In me"
> "I feeel you.. In me"


I don't even sing that to my hubby, and he often asks me to sing him to sleep!  Then again, I doubt he'd be falling asleep easily if I were to sing him this song.


----------



## mexiblunt (Feb 13, 2010)

Need more of the lyrics but so far it doesn't sound much different from any other love song. Candy shop lolly pop etc we know 50 is not really singing about candy.


----------



## Katatawnic (Feb 13, 2010)

That's kinda the point, MB.


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## undertheice (Feb 13, 2010)

this may be a little of topic, but.....

last sunday i watched the super bowl with about a half-dozen of those uber religious folks, among them were two of my oldest and dearest friends. sometime during the half-time show i realized that everyone in the room was fully convinced that i was destined to spend eternity in hell. it kind of creeped me out to realize that those i am closest to believe it is unlikely i will escape eternal damnation and i can't help but wonder just how low my self-esteem must be to put myself in such a position. oh well, nobody's perfect.


----------



## Katatawnic (Feb 13, 2010)

Or you're just a glutton for punishment?  I'd say most often atheists are "outnumbered" in social settings.


----------



## mexiblunt (Feb 13, 2010)

undertheice said:


> this may be a little of topic, but.....
> 
> last sunday i watched the super bowl with about a half-dozen of those uber religious folks, among them were two of my oldest and dearest friends. sometime during the half-time show i realized that everyone in the room was fully convinced that i was destined to spend eternity in hell. it kind of creeped me out to realize that those i am closest to believe it is unlikely i will escape eternal damnation and i can't help but wonder just how low my self-esteem must be to put myself in such a position. oh well, nobody's perfect.


What brought you to that realization? The uber-religious around here would accept me no matter what and try to save me untill my dying breath. That IS creepy that yours wouldn't.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 13, 2010)

If they accepted you, they wouldn't be trying to save you. 

You can substitute "recruit" for "save". That's closer to the mark.

There is no Boogeyman....


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 13, 2010)

[youtube]FbrNl5Uq2Ig[/youtube][youtube]_dS0lxEUTus[/youtube][youtube]RIW-SSKSxng[/youtube]


----------



## morgentaler (Feb 14, 2010)

undertheice said:


> as atheists, you and i may see this as shoving religion down our throats, but take a moment to look at it from someone else's point of view. what the nonbeliever may see as an intrusion, the believer may see as merely sharing one of their most precious gifts, the joyous love of their god. on a day dedicated to love, what could be more appropriate?


And a pedophile could argue they're sharing a precious gift too...

Happy Valentine's day...


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 14, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> And a pedophile could argue they're sharing a precious gift too...
> Happy Valentine's day...


giving the gift that keeps on giving or was it killing?

Gods, that is.

Some are excellent God Killers with marvelous super-powers.

[youtube]W9roxtugaUo[/youtube][youtube]pV5ukdJFGJQ[/youtube][youtube]ZR-YaikU_x4[/youtube]

What do real-world Giant Jolly Green Vampires look like today?


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 14, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> And a pedophile could argue they're sharing a precious gift too...
> 
> Happy Valentine's day...



Cults are always right....everyone else is wrong ...


----------



## Woodstock.Hippie (Feb 14, 2010)

[youtube]evQUVYtyNJc[/youtube][youtube]OxQxphjmRFE[/youtube][youtube]RIW-SSKSxng[/youtube]

*Grownups get confused and just plain miss the point when they don't understand the rules about Monster Bites very well, don't they?*

Listen to the youngster wise beyond worlds:

Real Boogeymen come out of the movies.


----------



## undertheice (Feb 14, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> And a pedophile could argue they're sharing a precious gift too...


oh, come on now. only the most psychotic anti-religion fanatic would equate religion with such child abuse. it's comments like this that tend to marginalize the proponents of atheism and give the god fearing majority the impression that we are all a bunch of ignorant malcontents.


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 14, 2010)

Morgan is only showing that ur logic is faulty..... just as if you received a candy bag with all sorts of satanic verses and sayings included...you would be offended. But they could throw back at you the EXACT same response YOU gave....


----------



## PadawanBater (Feb 14, 2010)

undertheice said:


> oh, come on now. only the most psychotic anti-religion fanatic would equate religion with such child abuse. it's comments like this that tend to marginalize the proponents of atheism and give the god fearing majority the impression that we are all a bunch of ignorant malcontents.


Are you suggesting religion _isn't_ child abuse?


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 14, 2010)

It's an ACCEPTED form of child abuse.... true enough.


----------



## Katatawnic (Feb 14, 2010)

undertheice said:


> oh, come on now. only the most psychotic anti-religion fanatic would equate religion with such child abuse. it's comments like this that tend to marginalize the proponents of atheism and give the god fearing majority the impression that we are all a bunch of ignorant malcontents.


He didn't say that the gift bag was comparable to pedophilia. He said one "reason" (excuse) makes as much sense as the other does.



CrackerJax said:


> Morgan is only showing that ur logic is faulty..... just as if you received a candy bag with all sorts of satanic verses and sayings included...you would be offended. But they could throw back at you the EXACT same response YOU gave....


But that would be different.  "Good" vs. "evil" stigma/assumptions attached to the source, and all that jazz.


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 14, 2010)

Which is why NEITHER belongs in a bag of VALENTINE candy. Is there any holiday the religious nuts won't hijack?


----------



## Katatawnic (Feb 14, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Which is why NEITHER belongs in a bag of VALENTINE candy. Is there any holiday the religious nuts won't hijack?


 Which is what I was expressing when I posted my little story in the first place... then told it was "appropriate" behavior.


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 14, 2010)

[youtube]n7m782SdcQU[/youtube]


----------



## morgentaler (Feb 15, 2010)

undertheice said:


> oh, come on now. only the most psychotic anti-religion fanatic would equate religion with such child abuse. it's comments like this that tend to marginalize the proponents of atheism and give the god fearing majority the impression that we are all a bunch of ignorant malcontents.


Religion IS child abuse.

Teaching children to believe in and worship invisible monsters to control their social development is sick, and a violation of the trust a child puts in you.

If you don't understand this, then you don't understand religion.


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 15, 2010)

I like heroin .... everyone should like heroin.


----------



## undertheice (Feb 15, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Morgan is only showing that ur logic is faulty..... just as if you received a candy bag with all sorts of satanic verses and sayings included...you would be offended.


if the message was a positive one, i most certainly wouldn't be offended. i leave that sort of childishness to the zealots and search for the underlying intent instead of allowing my bigotry to fixate my attentions on the superficial.



PadawanBater said:


> Are you suggesting religion _isn't_ child abuse?


i'm sure you could make the case that indoctrination is a form of child abuse, but very few are not guilty of that crime. i'm afraid you would find yourself indicting not only the institutionalized clone industry known as public schooling, but every parent as well. we all attempt to imprint our own values on our offspring, it is a way of insuring our immortality. though the mythos built up around scripture may be more powerful, the ethical lessons contained are no more dangerous than any other fable and many of those lessons are an integral part of surviving within society. evil may be done in the name of any belief system, that doesn't make those beliefs evil. 



Katatawnic said:


> He didn't say that the gift bag was comparable to pedophilia. He said one "reason" (excuse) makes as much sense as the other does.


no, he was equating the harmless sharing of an ideology of love with fucking little kids. i have to ask what damage there is in such sharing. are our sensibilities so fragile that we see the simple exchange of ideas as a crime equal to rape and the destruction of a child's innocence?


----------



## morgentaler (Feb 15, 2010)

undertheice said:


> no, he was equating the harmless sharing of an ideology of love with fucking little kids. i have to ask what damage there is in such sharing. are our sensibilities so fragile that we see the simple exchange of ideas as a crime equal to rape and the destruction of a child's innocence?


Jesus is not love. Have you read the bible? All the promises of suffering for those than don't believe in him?

You drank the fucking kool-aid, but you don't need to piss it on us.


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 15, 2010)

Good and evil are made up concepts..... don't be fooled.

Adult fairy tales..... will we ever grow up as a species?


----------



## morgentaler (Feb 15, 2010)

Maybe they can explain why are states with the highest Christian presence also those with the greatest support for the death penalty.

'Thou Shalt Not Kill', except by proxy.


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 15, 2010)

Ever watch the original Star Trek....? 

There was an episode about a society run by a machine hidden from view. Landrew.... the ppl didn't think for themselves....they did rituals because it was expected of them. 

It was a terrific examination of religion...without saying as much. ol Roddenberry was a smart cookie...... chocolate chip i think.


----------



## morgentaler (Feb 15, 2010)

Star Trek was a ritual at my grandparents house as kids. 
It was on CBC at noon, every Saturday I think.

I saw every episode by the time I was six.  But I don't speak Klingon or dress up in the uniforms 

Computerized religion, people lining up to be executed because the war had been sanitized to a simulation, lots of insightful stuff hidden in there with the corny stuff.



CrackerJax said:


> Ever watch the original Star Trek....?
> 
> There was an episode about a society run by a machine hidden from view. Landrew.... the ppl didn't think for themselves....they did rituals because it was expected of them.
> 
> It was a terrific examination of religion...without saying as much. ol Roddenberry was a smart cookie...... chocolate chip i think.


----------



## morgentaler (Feb 15, 2010)

Dan Dennett on closeted atheists inside the church.

[youtube]D_9w8JougLQ[/youtube]


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 15, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Dan Dennett on closeted atheists inside the church.
> 
> [youtube]D_9w8JougLQ[/youtube]


I think the church is full of them. They go through the motions.


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## undertheice (Feb 15, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Jesus is not love. Have you read the bible? All the promises of suffering for those that don't believe in him?
> 
> You drank the fucking kool-aid, but you don't need to piss it on us.


of course i've read the bible, as well as the texts of many other major religions. from the qur'an and the book of mormon to the tao te ching and the mahabharata, there are bits of wisdom to be found amidst the fantasy, allegory and agenda driven debris in all of them. 

jesus is nothing more than a long dead jew or maybe just a gardener in some southern california suburb. the love or the hatred lies in the intent of those involved. though i certainly can't be counted among the faithful, i see no need to piss the kool-aid of atheistic hatred all over the fantasies of the believers. they may be an elitist bunch, but i see the same sort of condescending crap in the fanatical atheist community. it seems a waste of energy to despise fantasy and i would rather try to build on the positive aspects of their delusion than berate them for their ignorance.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 15, 2010)

It's not elitist to be enlightened. It's the next step for man...if he can break free from the myths which bind him.


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## morgentaler (Feb 15, 2010)

Does it appear to anyone else that Woodstock.Hippie has created another account to get around the ignore list?


----------



## PadawanBater (Feb 15, 2010)

[youtube]ee_KVA9x-GM[/youtube]

The last line in this clip is especially great!


----------



## morgentaler (Feb 15, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> [youtube]ee_KVA9x-GM[/youtube]
> 
> The last line in this clip is especially great!


Ha! It must be Leviticus day!

[youtube]LWLe7W-LNdU[/youtube]


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 15, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Does it appear to anyone else that Woodstock.Hippie has created another account to get around the ignore list?


More like getting around a BAN.

Fairly pathetic.


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## Katatawnic (Feb 15, 2010)

undertheice said:


> no, he was equating the harmless sharing of an ideology of love with fucking little kids. i have to ask what damage there is in such sharing. are our sensibilities so fragile that we see the simple exchange of ideas as a crime equal to rape and the destruction of a child's innocence?


Well, it would appear that your "my own little world" location is dead on.

I'm an extremely literal person, yet it was easy for me to discern what he meant without the dramatics.


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## morgentaler (Feb 16, 2010)

Someone finally banned the moron? That's cool 
Even if it didn't work.


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## undertheice (Feb 16, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Well, it would appear that your "my own little world" location is dead on.


congratulations!! i've been waiting for years for someone to use that against me and you're the first.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 16, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Someone finally banned the moron? That's cool
> Even if it didn't work.



Wait ... it get's better ~~~ 

She then comes back as St. Augustine and 34 posts later ... is banned again~~~! 

Lawdy.....


----------



## dbtwiztid (Feb 16, 2010)

Stoney McFried said:


> I've posted this before, but.....
> *Jesusaurus Rex*
> 
> *From Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia.*
> ...


exposingchristianity.com

joyofsatan.org


----------



## Katatawnic (Feb 16, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Someone finally banned the moron? That's cool
> Even if it didn't work.


Woodstock? 



undertheice said:


> congratulations!! i've been waiting for years for someone to use that against me and you're the first.


Happy to oblige.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 16, 2010)




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## Katatawnic (Feb 16, 2010)

Guess so!  She's been banned before and returned, though.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 17, 2010)

I guess I'm old school. If I ever get banned from here.... that's it. You won't ever have to ponder whether I'll return under another name. Not my style. Banned is banned. 

Suck it up ... move on.  Old school.


----------



## Johan Liebert (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow man, that sums up my feelings on the matter quite well. I was raised Lutheran, and my girlfriend Southern Baptist. For me it started with weed, which led to an interest in science (going to museums, reading Carl Sagan, etc.) which led me to the knowledge that any of the religions which we currently have in this world are completely and totally impossible at best, and outright lies at worst.

Atheism makes me appreciate every tree or moonlit sky. Weed helps, too. Where religion answers questions with more questions, science gives straightforward answers, whether they are attractive or not. In other words, it talks to you like an adult, not a child.


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## PadawanBater (Feb 17, 2010)

Johan Liebert said:


> Wow man, that sums up my feelings on the matter quite well. I was raised Lutheran, and my girlfriend Southern Baptist. For me it started with weed, which led to an interest in science (going to museums, reading Carl Sagan, etc.) which led me to the knowledge that any of the religions which we currently have in this world are completely and totally impossible at best, and outright lies at worst.
> 
> Atheism makes me appreciate every tree or moonlit sky. Weed helps, too. Where religion answers questions with more questions, science gives straightforward answers, whether they are attractive or not. In other words, it talks to you like an adult, not a child.



Awesome post Johan! Welcome to the forum man.

I feel the same way, it all sparked with the interest of science.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 17, 2010)

Ixnay on your weed smoking making you see the light on atheism, bro. Just proves it's the devil's evil leaf.







Where IS the pig latin thread, anyway?


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## ukgrower2110 (Feb 17, 2010)

Religion is like heroin, it makes you feel good by telling you what you want to hear, as for priests, thier just sick middle aged men who tell dying old women that if they do as he says they will go to a magical place for the rest of "eternity".

however, i have no right to tell anyone what to believe, just so far as they dont integrate thier beliefs into the legal system of the nation that they reside in, but hey, thats just my view on the matter.


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## morgentaler (Feb 18, 2010)

"The devil" is just the quest for knowledge outside the church.

That's what they want to "save" you from.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 18, 2010)

Satan is just as real as jesus ...


----------



## jfgordon1 (Feb 18, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Satan is just as real as jesus ...


You and your "god" damn one liners


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## CrackerJax (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm a stinker....


----------



## jfgordon1 (Feb 19, 2010)

pic i took today... gave me a good chuckle


----------



## shnkrmn (Feb 19, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> pic i took today... gave me a good chuckle


In god we thrust


----------



## growwwww (Feb 19, 2010)

just got back from amsterdam, whats the situation on this oh so loved and amazing thread!!!


----------



## jfgordon1 (Feb 19, 2010)

growwwww said:


> just got back from amsterdam, whats the situation on this oh so loved and amazing thread!!!


Nice! But u know... the usual. Gods not real yada yada yada


----------



## growwwww (Feb 19, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> Nice! But u know... the usual. Gods not real yada yada yada


Hah, yea in a coffeshop called Bushman i got into a debate with a lovely rasta. And he tried to tell me that actually rastafari i dont have to believe in god. And that its a common misconception. so...yea  i just thought id share that with you. and im really really fucked right now and sorry if it doesnt make sense.


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## Katatawnic (Feb 19, 2010)

growwwww said:


> Hah, yea in a coffeshop called Bushman i got into a debate with a lovely rasta. And he tried to tell me that actually rastafari i dont have to believe in god. And that its a common misconception. so...yea  i just thought id share that with you. and im really really fucked right now and sorry if it doesnt make sense.


It indeed is! I thought a belief in God implicitly factored into it.  Interesting...


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## CrackerJax (Feb 19, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> Nice! But u know... the usual. Gods not real yada yada yada



Definitions are funny things... I do believe in a G*D. Certainly a G*D like force created the universe. Now what that is ... I don't know.

I do know that a personal G*D ... man made in G*D's image .... that's just made up by us. That comes from a pre science era.

Every religion is a reflection of mans ego. That's one of the reasons for all the conflict.


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## Katatawnic (Feb 20, 2010)

I used to refer to god/dess as "the All" as I've always had a very Hermetic view about the concept. I found it's easier to just say "God" than "the All" when discussing with others; avoids confusion and needing to explain the "Seven Hermetic Principles"... though it shouldn't be difficult to grasp IMNSHO.


----------



## PadawanBater (Feb 20, 2010)

[youtube]1Mtr3Cum74A[/youtube]

So much irrefutable shit contained in this video. 

This is why it's ignorant to believe in creationism.


----------



## PadawanBater (Feb 24, 2010)




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## futurekingofcannabis (Feb 25, 2010)

why do you people sit here and argue about religion when its obvious youre not going to change each others minds. i believe in a god but if youre an atheist i dont have a problem with it. i mean people are gonna believe what their gonna believe. i dont think you will go to hell for being an atheist. for me theres enough proof out there that all of this universe could not have just exploded in existence from nothing. smoke your weed and get high off it. do you think that happened by chance if we are nothing after death than we arent any better than a fuckin termite. but if youre an atheist im not gonna sit here and dog you. each person is entitled to his own beliefs. so stop fuckin arguin and do something more productive..... like smoking a blunt


----------



## PadawanBater (Feb 25, 2010)

futurekingofcannabis said:


> why do you people sit here and argue about religion when its obvious youre not going to change each others minds. i believe in a god but if youre an atheist i dont have a problem with it. i mean people are gonna believe what their gonna believe. i dont think you will go to hell for being an atheist. for me theres enough proof out there that all of this universe could not have just exploded in existence from nothing. smoke your weed and get high off it. do you think that happened by chance if we are nothing after death than we arent any better than a fuckin termite. but if youre an atheist im not gonna sit here and dog you. each person is entitled to his own beliefs. so stop fuckin arguin and do something more productive..... like smoking a blunt


Bro, to start, a lot of these misconceptions - "something can't come from nothing" "I'm not a monkey" "this is all an accident" "your life is meaningless without God!" - have been addressed throughout this thread. Do some reading.


----------



## growwwww (Feb 25, 2010)

futurekingofcannabis said:


> why do you people sit here and argue about religion when its obvious youre not going to change each others minds. i believe in a god but if youre an atheist i dont have a problem with it. i mean people are gonna believe what their gonna believe. i dont think you will go to hell for being an atheist. for me theres enough proof out there that all of this universe could not have just exploded in existence from nothing. smoke your weed and get high off it. do you think that happened by chance if we are nothing after death than we arent any better than a fuckin termite. but if youre an atheist im not gonna sit here and dog you. each person is entitled to his own beliefs. so stop fuckin arguin and do something more productive..... like smoking a blunt


First off, i wouldnt call it an argument as such. Lets say debate.

Then i want to say. theres nothing wrong with debating religion, and how 'obvious' is it that peoples minds will not change. (however this really no goal of an athiest, its most probably moreso just for people to ask questions and research and research from source after source ) The truth is however, the religious dont really get involved in debates as such, as its normally through debates ideas and thoughts either come into light and are shown strong or weak and they change and move forward or die. Which most religions are oh so terrified of.

Lastly, its not religion athiests dont like as such. Only the religious that feel the need to kick its dogma into kids at a very young age. The kind of religious thats homophobic, the kind of religious that are cruel to animals, the kind of religious that are horrible to women and deem them subservient.

PS Im smoking a fat blunt right now whilsts watching a bit of Pat Condell


----------



## CrackerJax (Feb 25, 2010)

1.) Atheism represents logic.

2.) Religion represents superstition.



Man needs more of #1, not 2.


----------



## PadawanBater (Feb 26, 2010)

[youtube]9Cd36WJ79z4[/youtube]


----------



## myxedup (Feb 26, 2010)

Green Cross said:


> You are a godless communist, and that's fine, but why do you feel the need to peddle your propaganda here?


Ahhhhh, I know I'm like 170 pages behind in this thread, but from Padawans original post, how did this one come to the conclusion that you are a communist?

You've got to love faith as taken from Hebrews 11:1:
Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

So....... you're being assured on your hopes and the evident demonstration comes from stories in a book written by men as they were born along by holy spirit by a god who has openly admitted to the mass murder of the entire globe, who promises to repeat the occurence, and who throughout the old testament, gave demonstration of his awesome bloodthirsty ways.

You want to know why 1/3 of the angels fell. It's because they saw that God was not all wise, all loving, or even remotely just. He's simply all powerful and they would rather face death than continue to serve a bloodthirsty war god who puts on the fronts of a loving father.

I'm actually going to just repost part of something I wrote the other day on the issue of using cannabis, moral or not? 


We are told that we are made in God's image, having the capacity for emotions, free will and so many other things. As such, being in God's image that is, we desire to be admired or in power and then we are told that that is wrong therefore we are GUILTY. We are also told about Adamic sin, we are guilty and will die for a crime that someone else committed again teaching us from birth on that we are Guilty, and it all just continues on from there. It's all just a power play to make us bow to the will of whomever gets put in charge of us as they are placed there by some sovereign lord.

I'm definately the devil's advocate in this sense and if that offends some, I do apologize, But why is it that we never question the rulership of the one called GOD? If he is all loving, wise, just, and powerful, then why did satan and 33% of the sentient beings that had spent an undeterminable time with him, choose death over remaining servient to him? Does anyone ever question whether or not God is moral? 

If you were place before a dictator that was proclaimed to be wise, just, loving, and powerful and he dictated to you that you should kill 185,000 Assyrians in one night with only the same warning that every nation that they had previously conquered had dictated just before their defeat, would you be willing to end the lives of 185,000 fathers, brothers, and sons because you were told to?

If a dictator with the same traits and following told you that we needed to cleanse the land of all infidels and social deviants by placing them in camps to construct weapons of death to be used on their brothers and sisters until they died from malnurishment, abuse and tyranny, would you obey if it meant your life or would you spit in his face and cherish your demise?

Simply because something or someone is put in front of you as a leader, does not mean that you should obey them. I believe that 1/3 of the angels fell because they opposed God on issues of morality. It is reasonable to me that a majority would remain loyal in order to continue it's existance and that's why he still has a following, not because of his self proclaimed traits.


I know that for many of the people on this thread, I'm "preaching to the choir" but for all of those that will put me on ignore for admitting being an advocate to someone or something that they are automatically supposed to oppose without question, I simply ask you to ask yourself why? 

Not why to any specific question, as there are so many, but just why in general. We're created in god's image with the ability to process that which is placed before us and yet when the information is delivered to us by an "official" whether religious or government, we automatically take it without question and if anyone opposes them using any form of reasoning or rational, then the most important thing that most people see is whether they have robes or a suit on and what their background is. Unfortunately, they rarely look beyond that at the reasoning that they have.

Someone recently tried to use the metaphor of the forbidden fruit from the garden of Eden to symbolize sex and that it wasn't until after they (Adam and Eve) had partook of it, that they realized their nakedness and felt shame. If the person that had preached this had read beyond that single scripture, genesis tells us that God told Adam and Eve to be "fruitful and become many. To fill the earth and subdue it." How can that metaphor be drawn or furthermore, how can it not automatically be discredited by anyone with half a brain as someone in charge simply trying to brainwash their kids into thinking that sex is evil.

Question what you're told. It doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you an educated one.

Hope everyone is well though and that you are finding joy in whatever it is in your life that you enjoy.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 26, 2010)

Oh that's an easy one. If you want to be disparaging to an atheist....call them a communist. In their minds...they go together. 

But just because most communists are atheists....doesn't mean most atheists are communists.

In the end, he couldn't respond with reason....so he threw mud.


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## futurekingofcannabis (Feb 27, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Bro, to start, a lot of these misconceptions - "something can't come from nothing" "I'm not a monkey" "this is all an accident" "your life is meaningless without God!" - have been addressed throughout this thread. Do some reading.


first of all, science is the ones that try to tell us that matter can neither be created or destroyed. second, i never stated "im not a monkey". why dont you try reading my post before you say stuff i didnt even say.


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## mindphuk (Feb 27, 2010)

futurekingofcannabis said:


> first of all, science is the ones that try to tell us that matter can neither be created or destroyed. second, i never stated "im not a monkey". why dont you try reading my post before you say stuff i didnt even say.


Science does say that, so what? Science does not claim that matter came from nothing. Your simplistic (although admittedly popularized view) of the Big Bang ignores all of the most current thoughts and understanding of that event. Read some on Hawking's No Boundary Proposal


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## lordofweed (Feb 27, 2010)

every man got the right to know the real truth so let me Put an end to the dividing lies, and let the truth be known! Watch this series and everything will be clear as the sun in a very hot summer day. 
here is the link: http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/4542859/The_Arrivals_(Noreagaaa_Series_avi).4542859.TPB.torrent 

It's a torrent so to download the series you need to install a torrent agent like utorrent or bittorrent .......etc.

peace


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## morgentaler (Feb 28, 2010)

So truthful they had to tag the torrent with "prison break" and "heroes" to get people to find it by accident.


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## myxedup (Feb 28, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> So truthful they had to tag the torrent with "prison break" and "heroes" to get people to find it by accident.


hehe, I love it when sarcasm actually comes across as intended online


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## jfgordon1 (Feb 28, 2010)

lordofweed said:


> every man got the right to know the real truth so let me Put an end to the dividing lies, and let the truth be known! Watch this series and everything will be clear as the sun in a very hot summer day.
> here is the link: http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/4542859/The_Arrivals_(Noreagaaa_Series_avi).4542859.TPB.torrent
> 
> It's a torrent so to download the series you need to install a torrent agent like utorrent or bittorrent .......etc.
> ...


I've seen it. it's like 7 hours long, or something crazy like that. 

If God is real, i think it would be something close to this. ( How all the major religions are linked and are worshiping the same God ) However, i'm still a non-believer.

If you're into conspiracy theories... it is worth the watch i suppose


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## morgentaler (Feb 28, 2010)

Supposing that Skygod Crankypants was real, look at all the useless pricks he has in middle management.

All seeing, all knowing, all powerful... But he still needs a bunch of pedophiles and con men to act as his representatives.

The lord of all creation manifesting as nothing more substantial than a 4 year old boys imaginary talking bear.

And he needs you to believe in him.

Sounds like something that Stephen King wrote about that lives in the sewers of Derry, Maine.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 28, 2010)

The entire planet is set up on carnage! 

Who would design something like that on purpose? Unless this is hell


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## Babs34 (Feb 28, 2010)

Maybe life on earth is hell.
Note I said "maybe."


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## CrackerJax (Feb 28, 2010)

Earth fits the description. 

But hell is a made up place...


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## myxedup (Feb 28, 2010)

Hell, or Hades, or Gehenna is the common grave of mankind. Don't have a bible nearby but Eccl. 8:9 or something like that states "the living are conscious that they will die, the dead are conscious of nothing at all"

How can there be suffering in unconsciousness? Again, the church exploiting away to scare people into following them.
Yay God  lol


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## jfgordon1 (Feb 28, 2010)

Here lies all the answers...

http://whathappensafteridie.com/


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Feb 28, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> Here lies all the answers...
> 
> http://whathappensafteridie.com/


 that was funny!


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## jfgordon1 (Feb 28, 2010)

Dr. Greenhorn said:


> that was funny!


Don't even speak to me, Dr. I'm still mad at you


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## shnkrmn (Mar 1, 2010)

myxedup said:


> Hell, or Hades, or Gehenna is the common grave of mankind. Don't have a bible nearby but Eccl. 8:9 or something like that states "the living are conscious that they will die, the dead are conscious of nothing at all"
> 
> How can there be suffering in unconsciousness? Again, the church exploiting away to scare people into following them.
> Yay God  lol


Yes, but it's debatable that Ecclesiastes was an atheist! The whole theme of his writing is the futility of existence and he hardly mentions god at all. There's a conclusion that we must just fear god and obey his commandments but many scholars believe that is a later insertion. Just a lil propaganda.


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## HydroGirl (Mar 1, 2010)

If you haven't seen this video it's a must watch! If you don't have a lot of time to watch or your just impatient... skip the first 10 minutes. I love showing this video to anyone who believes in god 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912#docid=-594683847743189197

Sorry ^^ I tried posting the video here, but it would only let me paste the link


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## CrackerJax (Mar 1, 2010)

So the Bible contradicts itself.... I'm shocked.

Man isn't ready to grow up ... yet.

Some of us are ready to move forward.


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## myxedup (Mar 1, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Yes, but it's debatable that Ecclesiastes was an atheist! The whole theme of his writing is the futility of existence and he hardly mentions god at all. There's a conclusion that we must just fear god and obey his commandments but many scholars believe that is a later insertion. Just a lil propaganda.


Wasn't Ecclesiastes written by Solomon? Just never heard that one before so it kind of seemed odd to hear.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 1, 2010)

The authors of the Bible are anonymous. That truly helps the argument that it is true.

Ecc. is an old testament inclusion. Christians love to steal material. It is a testament of the JEWS, not Christians.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 1, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> So the Bible contradicts itself.... I'm shocked.
> 
> Man isn't ready to grow up ... yet.
> 
> Some of us are ready to move forward.


I'm getting awfully tired of you flipping me off EVERY TIME I read one of your post


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 1, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> The authors of the Bible are anonymous. That truly helps the argument that it is true.
> 
> Ecc. is an old testament inclusion. Christians love to steal material. It is a testament of the JEWS, not Christians.


Yet, the Jews are wrong.. and have no idea what they're talking about 

They KILLED our lord for "god's" sake


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## CrackerJax (Mar 1, 2010)

Cop the religion and kill the true authors.... yes, it's a wonderful religion.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 1, 2010)

myxedup said:


> Wasn't Ecclesiastes written by Solomon? Just never heard that one before so it kind of seemed odd to hear.


Well, the narrator claims to be 'son of David, King in Jerusalem'. The Hebrew title is Kohelet which is also the name of the narrator. But 'son of David can be read as 'descendant of David' There is stylistic and grammatical evidence in the original Hebrew which indicates a later writing than Solomon's time, although it could have been reworked in a later period as well. Some critics claim a non-Jewish origin for the thought contained in Ecc. Numerous passages resonate well with Buddhists, although that's a loooooong shot in terms of origin.

As usual, the Wiki for this kind of thing is excellent.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 1, 2010)

But it's true....


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## myxedup (Mar 1, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> The authors of the Bible are anonymous. That truly helps the argument that it is true.
> 
> Ecc. is an old testament inclusion. Christians love to steal material. It is a testament of the JEWS, not Christians.


Not trying to rip on you, but anything before Christ would obviously not be a testament for Christians as it would be hard to be a follower of someone yet to be born. The statement that Christians love to steal material certainly isn't innacurate, but to use it in regards to this case is just a case of someone going out of their way to rip on Christianity. 

And, as you already know, there's certainly no need to go out of one's way to do that, there's plenty there already hurting their cause.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 1, 2010)

I agree with your first sentence. Christianity does not however. They INSIST on copping the Old Testament.

I merely point that out.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 1, 2010)

myxedup said:


> Not trying to rip on you, but anything before Christ would obviously not be a testament for Christians as it would be hard to be a follower of someone yet to be born. The statement that Christians love to steal material certainly isn't innacurate, but to use it in regards to this case is just a case of someone going out of their way to rip on Christianity.
> 
> And, as you already know, there's certainly no need to go out of one's way to do that, there's plenty there already hurting their cause.


They change a few names... and woo-la


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## Sgt. Floyd (Mar 1, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> I agree with your first sentence. Christianity does not however. They INSIST on copping the Old Testament.
> 
> I merely point that out.


Why would Christians not cop the Old Testament?


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## CrackerJax (Mar 1, 2010)

Hoo boy.... because it has nothing to do with the new? And the new is the testament of jesus. And Jesus is the entire point of Christianity.

The old testament is for the Jews only.

Actually Jesus was strictly talking to Jews himself. Not gentiles. The entire premise only holds together if Christians admit they are a sect of Judaism.


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## Babs34 (Mar 1, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Hoo boy.... because it has nothing to do with the new? And the new is the testament of jesus. And Jesus is the entire point of Christianity.
> 
> The old testament is for the Jews only.
> 
> Actually Jesus was strictly talking to Jews himself. Not gentiles. The entire premise only holds together if Christians admit they are a sect of Judaism.


*--perfection with deliberation--rocket science, eh?*
*Jesus is the entire point of God's message to mankind..do unto others as you would have them do unto you.*

*As mankind would have it, we would prefer to have our own way, which always proves to be fruitless. God gave us freewill, not because He had no choice, but because He has no need for mindless zombies. The rich man driving the Ferrari however would freely not note this fact, whereas the humble and meek man would always exhibit praise and appreciation for this knowledge.*

*Since when do Christians not recognize themselves to be a "sect" of Judaism? It IS the ROOT of ALL their beliefs. Without question, they at minimum, recognize the fact.*

* Generally speaking, Christians do not adhere to either the OT or the New as the literal spoken truth of God via His words Himself. This is where spirituality kicks in.....an elaboration not foretold in this generation, yet coming to fruition.*

*The most simplistic orders via "God" should be evident when raised in any honorable upbringing.*

*The "Jews" were incapable of sharing with mankind by way of message God's true intentions for mankind. They instead instilled their own violent renditions of God's essence. God was displeased and used this as an example to mankind.*

*Numerous places in the Torah and OT specifically point out God's intolerance and disappointment of the fact.*

*In fact, many books within the OT foretell the coming of the savior, Jesus Christ..........as found (scientifically proven) by a a little Muslim boy------NO ACCIDENT---in the book of Isaiah noted as being WORD FOR WORD.(SCIENTIFIC)*

*Science ignorantly ignores this FACT.*

*It's all about convenience of the soul mind you.*

*Never forget, it is Christians who PROTECT the Jews. This was God's plan....as imperfect as you find it.*

****Please finally note that I do NOT take the Bible as the word of God verbatim. By the literal hands of God, the Bible was not created, but by man's selfish desire... this, we agree on.*


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## CrackerJax (Mar 2, 2010)

Try control + .... it's easier on everyone else.


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

...entirely too simplistic.


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

*Allow me to add that even to this day, a very small example.......*
*Why do "we the people" not fight for our RIGHT to medicate with a herb vs. man's chemical?*
*/////that also was a simplistic adlib, noteworthy nonetheless.*
*\....as I said, it's all about what soothes the soul, or therof lack of.*


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Mar 2, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Try control + .... it's easier on everyone else.


I tried it pretty cool never knew you could do that. I was gonna ask you how to shrink it back,..... but I figured it out on my own lol


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

*Ya'll are tripping......just wanted to play upon the southerner in me. *


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Mar 2, 2010)

you know what the secret to sucess in life for me was,, playing dumb


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

*You are pure gernius incognito. *


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## PadawanBater (Mar 2, 2010)

[youtube]BmN3ELvsdjs&feature=sub[/youtube]


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## Sgt. Floyd (Mar 2, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Hoo boy.... because it has nothing to do with the new?


Its still relevant to Christianity. Its still the "word of God", it has the story of creation, the history of God's people and the messianic prophecies. I wouldn't say it has _nothing _to do with Christianity.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 2, 2010)

Nonsense..... The two are quite separate....unless you are willing to call urself a Christian Jew as ur identity. Are you?

P.S. Neither one is the word of G*D.... more nonsense. I do understand how a primitive ppl could come up with such a myth....but popularity is not a bell weather for the truth.


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## Sgt. Floyd (Mar 2, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Hoo boy.... because it has nothing to do with the new? And the new is the testament of jesus. And Jesus is the entire point of Christianity.
> 
> The old testament is for the Jews only.
> 
> Actually Jesus was strictly talking to Jews himself. Not gentiles. The entire premise only holds together if Christians admit they are a sect of Judaism.


I missed this earlier. Its not often we get good bud where I'm at but I'm lucky enough to have 4 different unknown varieties of really good bud.

I completely agree with that. I think its the point I was trying to make. Most Christians are just too stupid or anti-Semitic to admit it.


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

It all correlates.

*Genesis (Torah) *
*022:008 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for*
*a burnt offering**: so they went both of them together.*

*Isaiah (still OT)Science will not refute the preservation of this book either. There is no mistake that a young Muslim boy, named Muhammad no doubt, found this book in a cave either.*

*Note that Muslims DO see the quran as being the word of God written from the hand of allah.*
*We Christians aren't near as nutty as you think. *

_13:_ And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 
_14:_ Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 
_15:_ Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 
_16:_ For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. 

_Chapter 9 vs. 6:_ For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 
_7:_ Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. 

*Isaiah 29:10* For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. 
*Isaiah 29:11* And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
*Isaiah 29:13* Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: 
*Isaiah 30:18* And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him. 
*Isaiah 40:3* The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 
*Isaiah 42:1* Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 
*Isaiah 42:2* He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 
*Isaiah 42:3* A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 
*Isaiah 42:4* He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 
*Isaiah 42:5* Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 
*Isaiah 42:6* I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 
*Isaiah 42:7* To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 
*Isaiah 42:8* I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 
*Isaiah 42:9* Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. 
*Isaiah 43:8* Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 
*Isaiah 43:9* Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 
*Isaiah 43:10* Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 
*Isaiah 43:11* I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 
*Isaiah 43:12* I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. 
*Isaiah 43:18* Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. 
*Isaiah 43:19* Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. 
*Isaiah 43:25* I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. 
_*I, the LORD &#8212; with the first of them and with the last &#8212; I am he*_." Isaiah 41:4
*Isaiah 46:10* Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 
*Isaiah 47:4* As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel. 
*Isaiah 48:6* Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. 
*Isaiah 48:7* They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them. 
*Isaiah 48:8* Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb. 
*Isaiah 49:6* And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. 
*Isaiah 49:7* Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. 
*Isaiah 49:8* Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; 
*Isaiah 53:6* All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 
*Isaiah 53:7* He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 
*Isaiah 53:8* He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 
*Isaiah 53:9* And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 
*Isaiah 63:11* Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? 
*Isaiah 53:5 *But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are all healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was opposed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was *led like a lamb to the slaughter.*

In the book of John verse 8:58 Jesus says: *"before Abraham was, I am".* 

*Exodus (also Torah) Chapter 3:14*
*God said to Moses, "I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you.*

*The Bible is not written BY God, but it is OF God.*


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## PadawanBater (Mar 2, 2010)

[youtube]qBJuv5TyD5o&feature=related[/youtube]

LMFAO Rick made a youtube account!!


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## PadawanBater (Mar 2, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *The Bible is not written BY God, but it is OF God.*


What does that mean exactly? God spoke to man and man wrote it down?


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> What does that mean exactly? *God spoke to man and man wrote it down?*


 ...exactly


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## mexiblunt (Mar 2, 2010)

God told me to write this down.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 2, 2010)

What language was he using?


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

mexiblunt said:


> God told me to write this down.


  God has purpose and reason...this offered neither.


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## Sgt. Floyd (Mar 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> What does that mean exactly? God spoke to man and man wrote it down?


The way I was always taught is that the works were inspired by the Holy Spirit. That was in Catholic Sunday school.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 2, 2010)

Oh, so it must be true.... 

Control....


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> What does that mean exactly? God spoke to man and man wrote it down?





Babs34 said:


> ...exactly


God created the earth and heavens... but couldn't write down a few words.

Come'on Babs... you seriously believe this?


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## 420HAZE420 (Mar 2, 2010)

The thing that you dont understand is that its only the weak and foolish christians and other religous people who set strict laws on the way they think and live.Me myself am protestant I know the truth but I dont live by what churches and other religions force people to live by.You and I are alot alike we both dont take bullshit from anyone and we believe in whats right and wrong from our own personal life experiences.Are you one of the atheist whos main argument is....."If god does exist why does he let bad things happen?" uhmm.... Becuase what kind of world would this be if everything was perfect with no problems......We would all all be so used to everything being perfect that we would eventualy stop appreciating everything all together.We would be like children who get whatever they want.

God bless all of my brothers and sisters for they are the sons and daughters of the almighty lord jesus christ


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 2, 2010)

"I know the truth". How do you know the truth and I dont? I can't tell you what's going to happen in 5 minutes....yet you can tell me what's going to happen after I die? 

I'm the kind of athiest that needs proof there is a god(religous)... and I've yet to see it.


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 2, 2010)

I sharted. What kind of "intelligent" designer wouldn't put a lid over my cornhole to prevent such a thing?


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## shnkrmn (Mar 2, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> God created the earth and heavens... but couldn't write down a few words.
> 
> Come'on Babs... you seriously believe this?


well, he didn't have a pen, did he? Or hands? oh yeah, he's created in our image. Or vice-versa. Anyway, lots of thoughts, so little time to create, you know, the whole artist deal.

[youtube]Qzf8q9QHfhI[/youtube]


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## 420HAZE420 (Mar 2, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> "I know the truth". How do you know the truth and I dont? I can't tell you what's going to happen in 5 minutes....yet you can tell me what's going to happen after I die?
> 
> I'm the kind of athiest that needs proof there is a god(religous)... and I've yet to see it.



Oh i see your the type of athiest that wants god to pop out of your wall and let you know he exist whenever you say.

You are the type of person who started looking for god as a skeptic, therefore you will never find him as you have always lacked faith in the lord and creator of all things.

God bless all of my brothers and sisters for they are the sons and daughters of the almighty lord jesus christ.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 2, 2010)

420HAZE420 said:


> Oh i see your the type of athiest that wants god to pop out of your wall and let you know he exist whenever you say.
> 
> You are the type of person who started looking for god as a skeptic, therefore you will never find him as you have always lacked faith in the lord and creator of all things.
> 
> God bless all of my brothers and sisters for they are the sons and daughters of the almighty lord jesus christ.


Why doesn't he? If he wants me to believe and not want me to burn in hell he would.

However, you're right... I was always a skeptic. I never believed. I also never believed in santa claus... ever. Guess I have always been a logical thinker.


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## mindphuk (Mar 2, 2010)

420HAZE420 said:


> Oh i see your the type of athiest that wants god to pop out of your wall and let you know he exist whenever you say.
> 
> You are the type of person who started looking for god as a skeptic, therefore you will never find him as you have always lacked faith in the lord and creator of all things.
> 
> God bless all of my brothers and sisters for they are the sons and daughters of the almighty lord jesus christ.


So your god gives us the brains for logical, rational thought but doesn't want us to use those faculties when it comes to him?


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## Sgt. Floyd (Mar 2, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Oh, so it must be true....
> 
> Control....


I'm just telling the way it was taught to me many years ago.


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

Sgt. Floyd said:


> The way I was always taught is that the works were inspired by the Holy Spirit. That was in Catholic Sunday school.


It is the Holy Spirit that inspires the comprehension of man's word.

I skipped out on so many of the class's it's not even funny. Honest truth, I paid NO attention to what was taught me......honest to God, I have no recollection, BECAUSE I paid NO attention to it. I was merely a kid who couldn't wait to go run naked through the woods and shoot bebe guns and return home with pellet wounds with pride.

My "faith" has NOTHING upon NOTHING to do with my upbringing/teachings, only of that which the Holy Spirit has shown me through life experiences. The Holy Spirit is as real as the nose on your face. One only need to barely seek the presence for it to be wholeheartedly KNOWN.

While many of you will mock that simple statement I just now made, I will simply shrug my shoulders. *I am who I am*. I am WHO I AM "because" of the Holy Spirit and how much I *dare* to behold His presence.....take my word, it's not easy to acknowledge truth. If anything, it's the hardest existence to mankind.

What is God, if not a mystery to mankind? How utterly mundane this world would be had God not given us freewill.

Athesits will relentlessly ask, why then does God allow.........(everything from A-Z?)

So many of the answers you seek are so simplex and within the reach as the toilet paper you reach for.....and yet, you remain still with the blinders. What it boils down to is prideful ignorance, an arrogant determination to willfully make your OWN rules......fine, God orained that right. Why would He not?

Why it is so troubling for the non-believer to comprehend that God did not create us in the image of robots and mindless zombies is beyond me.....yet at the same time, comprehensible.

The entire meaning of "life" holds no purpose in man's perfection, but Holy sh*&,,,,that's a book, and a mysterious one at that.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 2, 2010)

Sgt. Floyd said:


> I'm just telling the way it was taught to me many years ago.


I was taught the same thing..... which in reality is indoctrination. Breaking free is difficult. But it can be done.


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> I was taught the same thing..... which in reality is indoctrination. Breaking free is difficult. But it can be done.


LOL CJ, LOL.......and GOD hath spoken....hehe.
You missed the point.....I TRULY did NOT give a shit about "religion." I gave no thought to God.

Indoctrination... I truly didn't give a shit.


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## PadawanBater (Mar 2, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> My "faith" has NOTHING upon NOTHING to do with my upbringing/teachings, *only of that which the Holy Spirit has shown me through life experiences.* The Holy Spirit is as real as the nose on your face. *One only need to barely seek the presence for it to be wholeheartedly KNOWN.*


What were you shown? Why do you attribute this to "they Holy Spirit"? 

What is "the Holy Spirit"?

That second part I put in bold is false. What do you think we've been doing? What do you think most atheists do? We seek answers to these questions.



> While many of you will mock that simple statement I just now made, I will simply shrug my shoulders. *I am who I am*. I am WHO I AM "because" of the Holy Spirit and how much I *dare* to behold His presence.....take my word, it's not easy to acknowledge truth. If anything, it's the hardest existence to mankind.


This tells me your concerned with comfort more than what reality actually is.



> What is God, if not a mystery to mankind? How utterly mundane this world would be had God not given us freewill.


Free will and purpose are incompatible concepts. They are mutually exclusive. We either have free will and purpose - in this sense - is meaningless, or we don't and there is meaning in each of our purposes. So which is it?



> Athesits will relentlessly ask, why then does God allow.........(everything from A-Z?)


Reasonable question.



> So many of the answers you seek are so simplex and within the reach as the toilet paper you reach for.....and yet, you remain still with the blinders. What it boils down to is prideful ignorance, an arrogant determination to willfully make your OWN rules......fine, God orained that right. Why would He not?


That's one of the worst arguments a believer could pose. Take it from me, from this side, it's simply ridiculous. It's just like saying "you hate God, that's why you don't believe!". The argument here being "you want to make your own rules and not live by the ones God set". Considering that would be near the bottom of the list of priorities - that is, my own personal finite likes and dislikes in a universe where a God does exist - the argument defeats itself. If God existed as you believe he does, the rules he's set would be irrelevant to me believing in him. Fail.



> Why it is so troubling for the non-believer to comprehend that God did not create us in the image of robots and mindless zombies is beyond me.....yet at the same time, comprehensible.


Because logic does not permit it. If you gave it more than 10 minutes worth of thinking, you would come to the same conclusion. Every single one of "Gods" omni-powers is illogical.


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> What were you shown? Why do you attribute this to "they Holy Spirit"?
> 
> What is "the Holy Spirit"?
> 
> ...


 Sorry P, huge eyeroll sums it up..I've an important doctors appt to make in the early a.m. in "inclement weather".....to respond would take time I do not have now.

I will not argue and I WILL NOT fail.


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## Babs34 (Mar 2, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> Sorry P, huge eyeroll sums it up..I've an important doctors appt to make in the early a.m. in "inclement weather".....to respond would take time I do not have now.
> 
> I will not argue and I WILL NOT fail.


 *BUT..........I WILL RESPOND at a later time.*


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> LOL CJ, LOL.......and GOD hath spoken....hehe.
> You missed the point.....I TRULY did NOT give a shit about "religion." I gave no thought to God.
> 
> Indoctrination... I truly didn't give a shit.



And I clearly was not responding to ur post..... pay attention...

But my post is 100% accurate. It is indoctrination of something without proof or probability. MYTH.

Of course you don't care..... ur not a moral person. Only a moral person would be concerned.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 3, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Of course you don't care..... ur not a moral person. Only a moral person would be concerned.


In general, I don't see people that indoctrinate as "bad people" per se. However, i do believe the act of indoctrinating is immoral. How do people not get that forcing unproven belief down gullible children's throats is not right... at all?


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## 420HAZE420 (Mar 3, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> So your god gives us the brains for logical, rational thought but doesn't want us to use those faculties when it comes to him?


the proof is all around you you just wont take notice


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## morgentaler (Mar 3, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> However, i do believe the act of indoctrinating is immoral.


All people are indoctrinated.
As a north american, you've likely been indoctrinated into believing that eating bugs is yucky, while 2/3 of the world would disagree with you. Your neighbor has been indoctrinated to believe all sex outside marriage is bad.

Children are hardwired to be indoctrinated. It allows them to assimilate new information quickly. It can also be exploited.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 3, 2010)

420HAZE420 said:


> the proof is all around you you just wont take notice


Saying tree outside is proof... doesn't make it proof.

Saying the sun is proof... doesn't make it proof.

etc.

Do you at least see where we are coming from?


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## morgentaler (Mar 3, 2010)

[youtube]Jlwf-X1qHyI[/youtube]

Adam Carolla can suck a nut.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 3, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> All people are indoctrinated.
> As a north american, you've likely been indoctrinated into believing that eating bugs is yucky, while 2/3 of the world would disagree with you. Your neighbor has been indoctrinated to believe all sex outside marriage is bad.
> 
> Children are hardwired to be indoctrinated. It allows them to assimilate new information quickly. It can also be exploited.


Ohhhh morgen... you know what I was* talking about .

However, good points there.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2010)

Raise a child without religion and then when he/she is ready to enter the real world.... show them a Bible and have them read it. They would be appalled that ppl believe it to be true.

That is exactly why the Church has always insisted on getting them young .... before they can think for themselves.


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## PadawanBater (Mar 3, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Raise a child without religion and then when he/she is ready to enter the real world.... show them a Bible and have them read it. They would be appalled that ppl believe it to be true.
> 
> That is exactly why the Church has always insisted on getting them young .... before they can think for themselves.


The Church = Freddy Kruger


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## shnkrmn (Mar 3, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Raise a child without religion and then when he/she is ready to enter the real world.... show them a Bible and have them read it. They would be appalled that ppl believe it to be true.
> 
> That is exactly why the Church has always insisted on getting them young .... before they can think for themselves.


You cannot raise a child free of religion without giving them extensive knowledge of religion. Think about it; what would they be given to read? What history, philosophy? You cannot understand the modern world without basic understanding of what is a religion, how does it inform and influence culture and civilization. You can't read Kant without understanding Christ. I have no idea how atheist parents raise their children; it must be pretty challenging.

So, CJ, how would you keep this child free of religion? By indoctrination, perhaps?


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## growwwww (Mar 3, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> You cannot raise a child free of religion without giving them extensive knowledge of religion. Think about it; what would they be given to read? What history, philosophy? You cannot understand the modern world without basic understanding of what is a religion, how does it inform and influence culture and civilization. You can't read Kant without understanding Christ. I have no idea how atheist parents raise their children; it must be pretty challenging.
> 
> So, CJ, how would you keep this child free of religion? By indoctrination, perhaps?



You would educate them on various types of religions, monotheism, polytheism and athiestic religions like buddhism. You would teach them the core basics of these. Teach them that understanding and education of everything is so important. 
Eventually, when they are old enough and educated to ask questions and look at the logic behind things. You will get someone who still may ( because they find it suits them [ for some odd reason ] pick up a certain religion or a particular philosophy )
These people will most probably identify that the good things are pretty ubiqoutos among all the religions and beliefs. and among other things i recon if they were to pick a religion im sure they would go for something like buddhism or something that just really doesnt give a shit about anyone else.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> You cannot raise a child free of religion without giving them extensive knowledge of religion. Think about it; what would they be given to read? What history, philosophy? You cannot understand the modern world without basic understanding of what is a religion, how does it inform and influence culture and civilization. You can't read Kant without understanding Christ. I have no idea how atheist parents raise their children; it must be pretty challenging.
> 
> So, CJ, how would you keep this child free of religion? By indoctrination, perhaps?


Are you kidding me? 

No Philosophy worth teaching your kids outside of the Bible? Is there philosophy even in the Bible? 

I could EASILY raise a moral child without religion.


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## Babs34 (Mar 3, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> So your god gives us the brains for logical, rational thought but doesn't want us to use those faculties when it comes to him?


 He wants you to see. Many just refuse him..that simple.


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## Babs34 (Mar 3, 2010)

And in order to raise a moral child, you would be teaching them what Christ taught. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...don't steal, don't cheat, don't lie, you know---all that GOOD stuff.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 3, 2010)

> Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...don't steal, don't cheat, don't lie, you know---all that GOOD stuff.


So you're only teaching them bits and pieces of the good book then 

However, yes... those are good things to teach


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2010)

Jesus never had an original thought in his head......he had rebellious thoughts in his head....but not new ones.

The Bible is a horrible reference for morality.


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## Babs34 (Mar 3, 2010)

*LOL @both of you.*
*You both get ZEROS for comprehension.*


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## PadawanBater (Mar 3, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *LOL @both of you.*
> *You both get ZEROS for comprehension.*


Don't forget about my post Babs.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2010)

I answered it fully. Sorry if you can't understand it.


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## morgentaler (Mar 3, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> I have no idea how atheist parents raise their children; it must be pretty challenging.
> 
> So, CJ, how would you keep this child free of religion? By indoctrination, perhaps?


Mine ensured I had a big stack of books available from the moment I could flip pages by myself. And they had me reading by the time I was 4.

I had norse and greco-roman legends on the shelf when I was 6, and it started a love for mythology that had me read every book of legends the school and public libraries had to offer in later years.

But while I was still 6 some door-knockers came bothering at the door. And my mom told them to take a hike, and they asked her to at least give me a bible. (A kid's one, looked like it was aimed at the 10 to 12 year old range)

So being a good atheist parent that's exactly what she did. She gave me the bible and to read. 

It had cool artwork, and was all about this horrible villain that made life hell for his subjects. For some reason everyone thought he was the good guy. In the end nobody killed him, but he let his son be murdered to get more subjects.

It was a pretty stupid book.

All an atheist/rationalist parent has to do is teach their kids that you don't take some asshole at his word just because he says you should, and establish their ability to think critically.

The rest works itself out.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2010)

I just get tired of repeating myself..... different poster ....same illogical questions.

You could easily teach all the morals necessary within the Bothers Grimm Fairy Tales. The lessons are all in there....except no one makes the kid think it really happened... No wonder the youth perpetually mistrusts the older generations....they are brought up on a pack of lies.


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## mindphuk (Mar 3, 2010)

420HAZE420 said:


> the proof is all around you you just wont take notice


Really? Proof huh? 
Typical hackneyed non-answer of a theist.


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## mindphuk (Mar 3, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> You cannot raise a child free of religion without giving them extensive knowledge of religion. Think about it; what would they be given to read? What history, philosophy? You cannot understand the modern world without basic understanding of what is a religion, how does it inform and influence culture and civilization. You can't read Kant without understanding Christ. I have no idea how atheist parents raise their children; it must be pretty challenging.
> 
> So, CJ, how would you keep this child free of religion? By indoctrination, perhaps?


How do you raise a child free from collecting stamps? It must be hard when a letter comes with a stamp on it, you must teach him how not to remove it from the envelope and not to put it in a book to save. It must be hard to be a non-stamp collector with kids.


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## PadawanBater (Mar 3, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> *No wonder the youth perpetually mistrusts the older generations....they are brought up on a pack of lies.*


Good point. Good observation.



mindphuk said:


> How do you raise a child free from collecting stamps? It must be hard when a letter comes with a stamp on it, you must teach him how not to remove it from the envelope and not to put it in a book to save. It must be hard to be a non-stamp collector with kids.


lmao +rep


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## shnkrmn (Mar 4, 2010)

Eh, that would be a valid analogy if it weren't for the fact that 4/5ths of the people your child encounters think that if you don't collect stamps you will be doomed to the lost mail room for eternity, your child's classroom is decorated with stamps seasonally, etc. Parents like Morgentaler's would have to be extraordinarily wise and dedicated to counter the din of the faithful clamoring at their door.



mindphuk said:


> How do you raise a child free from collecting stamps? It must be hard when a letter comes with a stamp on it, you must teach him how not to remove it from the envelope and not to put it in a book to save. It must be hard to be a non-stamp collector with kids.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

No one tells the child that the stamp is supernatural and WATCHING them.....

NEXT!!

Try a bit harder..... good luck with that.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> No one tells the child that the stamp is supernatural and WATCHING them.....
> 
> NEXT!!
> 
> Try a bit harder..... good luck with that.



Well, CJ, that's why I was questioning the analogy.

Try a bit harder at what? Why so cranky?


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## FTPR33 (Mar 4, 2010)

when you die you will know!


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

Or you won't.....


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 4, 2010)




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## shnkrmn (Mar 4, 2010)

It would depend on the make of the car.


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## Babs34 (Mar 4, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Don't forget about my post Babs.


 *P, what you AND Cracker both don't seem to comprehend is that I fullheartedly comprehend your stance, and guess what?*
*It's INDOCTRINATED.*
*The worst kind of indoctrination comes from self-absorption........and P, I don't say that to be insulting to either one of you.*


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## Babs34 (Mar 4, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Mine ensured I had a big stack of books available from the moment I could flip pages by myself. And they had me reading by the time I was 4.
> 
> I had norse and greco-roman legends on the shelf when I was 6, and it started a love for mythology that had me read every book of legends the school and public libraries had to offer in later years.
> 
> ...


 Well, there you have it Morgan....."the rest works itself out." And how it does, depends on the individual.

Maybe I really am guilty of not bringing my child up correctly (as I KNOW is the opinion of "some" fellow family members.

My son is definitely at an accountable age. NEVER have I indoctrinated him with SHIT.

You know where he learns of what to value in life? BY EXPERIENCE.

Without going on a personal tangent, my son, solely for the purpose of my illness, has witnessed faith fullforce.....not with words, but via LIFE.

My child is young and impressionable and my SOLE wish is for him to encounter God entirely on his OWN. Only recently did he express an interest in reading the Bible to me. Bear in mind, he is YOUNG.......and he's a smart little boy too I might add. His inquiries tire me to death, LOL. As much as I hate to admit it, he TEACHES me in abundance!

He decided recently to share with me that after having only read Genesis, he realized that Noah was a drunk.....and all the adlib he hounded me with tired me more than some of you here do, LOL.

I don't feed my child garbage. I don't hopelessly feed his mind with psychological crap that will instill upon his psyche mental torment.

I, through my life, my emotions, my actions and sometimes in depth conversations, alot for my child a very REAL accordance with life events..

BTW, that "means" simply that I am encouraging his development to come "au naturel."

Just as God would have this little boys impressionable mind "bud".....so would I. 

I put FAITH in God's hands to guide my son by His OWN instruction....gently (and sometimes harshly) with my own "guidance."

I sometimes feel guilty that he is not being raised in a church. He HAS expressed an interest.

My reasons for not doing so are personal and beside the point.

I TRULY do NOT wish for my son to be indoctrinated by acts and enforced "semi-false instruction"..........BUT, I ask this: What is this ABUSE you refer to when speaking of children being brought up in a church environment??? Unless they are in an atmosphere involving outlandish behavior, I will not be able to logically follow your stance...


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## Babs34 (Mar 4, 2010)

but he let his son be murdered to get more subjects.

*??????????*


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## Babs34 (Mar 4, 2010)

FTPR33 said:


> when you die you will know!


 *.....the what ifs are what kill you.*


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

Yes, atheism is indoctrinated.... 

Better not tell parents who raised me Catholic for 18 years.... really teaching me atheism?


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## Babs34 (Mar 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Yes, atheism is indoctrinated....
> 
> Better not tell parents who raised me Catholic for 18 years.... really teaching me atheism?


 *LOL CJ, they are the WORST kind to turn you against God!!........the WORST.*


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## Babs34 (Mar 4, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *LOL CJ, they are the WORST kind to turn you against God!!........the WORST.*


 I should probably add that I was raised by "this" kind......nuns for teachers.....oh, the stories I could tell.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

You have the reading comprehension of a gnat.


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## Babs34 (Mar 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> You have the reading comprehension of a gnat.


*...and that says very little of you.........comprehension.*

*I'm so completely not Catholic CJ, with REASON.*


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## Babs34 (Mar 4, 2010)

......sing it
B I N G O
B I N G O
B I N G OOOOOOOOOOOO
and BINGO was his namoooooooooooo
.....one more time CJ.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 5, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> I should probably add that I was raised by "this" kind......nuns for teachers.....oh, the stories I could tell.


I spent time in a catholic convent school AND in a Baptist missionary school. Not in this country. The nuns were a little cruel, especially since I was left-handed but it was American baptists who taught me that religion is pathology.

'Oh, the stories I could tell you'.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 5, 2010)

Catholic church + little boy =


shnkrmn said:


> 'Oh, the stories I could tell you'.


I bet you could


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## shnkrmn (Mar 5, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> Catholic church + little boy =
> I bet you could


LOL. I hardly remember seeing a priest. I remember wanting to be a nun though. I thought their whole outfit was so impressive. And they were always so clean, like they never even sweated (this was in a very hot place).


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## Babs34 (Mar 5, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> Catholic church + little boy =
> I bet you could


 *..amazing how many stories that have arisen over the years.*
*I spent 6 out of 7 days surrounded by this "supposed" sex abuse. It's nowhere near as prevalent as some would have you believe.*
*..but now the nuns-----they ARE questionable!!!*

*LOL.....my teacher had to escort our class from PE to a new destination. The nun was screaming FUCK YOU as she threw erasers at the priest. *
*Many parents took their children out of school that year.*
*I just looked at it as nuns are people too (well, kind of)*

*Yeah Sknkr.....I don't know why that generation was so opposed to left-handed writing. It's as if they thought it would place an omen on you. But really, that wasn't a catholic thing.*

*I will say this...best damn education you can give your child. MOST of the students were NOT even Catholic.*


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## CrackerJax (Mar 5, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> I spent time in a catholic convent school AND in a Baptist missionary school. Not in this country. The nuns were a little cruel, especially since I was left-handed but it was American baptists who taught me that religion is pathology.
> 
> 'Oh, the stories I could tell you'.


To this day I turn writing paper 90 degrees because of the nuns and my being left handed (side of the devil!!  ) My Kindergarten teacher would turn my paper so it would be harder to write...so that I would switch to writing with my right hand. I adapted instead and write sideways now.

Hand of the devil..... uhhh okay .... myth...but with real consequences because the church is NUTTY!


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 5, 2010)

Holy baJesus... the catholic church thinks left handed people are the work of the devil ?! 







(the only "like seriously" pic i could find )


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## shnkrmn (Mar 5, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> To this day I turn writing paper 90 degrees because of the nuns and my being left handed (side of the devil!!  ) My Kindergarten teacher would turn my paper so it would be harder to write...so that I would switch to writing with my right hand. I adapted instead and write sideways now.
> 
> Hand of the devil..... uhhh okay .... myth...but with real consequences because the church is NUTTY!


To this day, I turn my paper so the top is pointing at 9 o'clock and curl my hand around like a nautilus. I try not to write at all now.

a baptist missionary beat my sister with a paddle until she was blue down to the knees. They taught violence very well. Shaming was a major pedagogical tool.

"Memories; we will enjoy them."


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## edsthreads (Mar 5, 2010)

Religion is the root of most of what is bad about society i.e wars, bombings, terrorism, extremism etc..



> Holy baJesus... the catholic church thinks left handed people are the work of the devil ?!


My partners Dad was forced to write with his left hand tied behind his back when he was younger at a Catholic school.. so I know all about that one.. He's ambidextrous now so it does have some benefits!


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## CrackerJax (Mar 5, 2010)

Yepper, my situation exactly.... 9 o'clock. I do write quite a bit however...

Now on a chalkboard, I can write both left and right equally well. Huh...

Eat left
sports right
writing left
wanking left 
strong arm right

They messed me up!!  

Heck, I've got tons of stories from my Catholic days. I went and did hard time with old school Polish nuns. Tough ol birds and when the Polish flew out of their mouths, you knew the hands weren't far behind!

And those mofo black ballet type slippers they wore..... sneak up on you like the Viet Cong! 

Bitches!!


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## mindphuk (Mar 5, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> Holy baJesus... the catholic church thinks left handed people are the work of the devil ?!
> 
> (the only "like seriously" pic i could find )


Look up the meaning of the Latin word "sinister"


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 5, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Look up the meaning of the Latin word "sinister"





> *Pronunciation:*  *si*-ni-stêr   *Hear it!* *Part of Speech:* Adjective
> *Meaning:* *1.* Evil or presaging evil, suggesting wickedness, depravity. *2.* Presaging something very bad or disastrous. *3.* (Heraldry) Sinistral, to the left of the wearer (the right of the onlooker) on a coat of arms or shield.
> *Notes:*
> 
> ...



well, i'm speechless.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 5, 2010)

Where's my 40 acres and a mule?


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## shnkrmn (Mar 5, 2010)

AND CAN WE TALK ABOUT SCISSORS??????????????

Who decided that right-handed people get their own special scissors that the rest of us can't use????

end of thread-jack


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## 420HAZE420 (Mar 5, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> Saying tree outside is proof... doesn't make it proof.
> 
> Saying the sun is proof... doesn't make it proof.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah your coming from fairytale fantasyland. Please give me your logical explanation for how everything came about, im dying to hear it


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 5, 2010)

420HAZE420 said:


> Yeah your coming from fairytale fantasyland. Please give me your logical explanation for how everything came about, im dying to hear it


I have NO IDEA... 

Not the slightest...

 That's why this is such an interesting subject! No body really knows

EDIT: btw... u have talking snakes.. and I'm in "fairytale fantasyland"


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## 420HAZE420 (Mar 5, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> "I know the truth". How do you know the truth and I dont? I can't tell you what's going to happen in 5 minutes....yet you can tell me what's going to happen after I die?
> 
> I'm the kind of athiest that needs proof there is a god(religous)... and I've yet to see it.


 
exactly my point you ignore the point and pick out some irrelevent information to post a mindless reply about.
That has nothing to do with the facts genius


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 5, 2010)

420HAZE420 said:


> exactly my point you ignore the point and pick out some irrelevent information to post a mindless reply about.
> That has nothing to do with the facts genius


What facts?

What mindless reply? 

You asked me how everything came about... and i answered honestly. I have not the slightest. At least i don't pretend to know all the answers.

Is anyone else confused by this guy's tactics ?


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## PadawanBater (Mar 5, 2010)

Typical creationist using every trick in the bag that atheists have rebutted since the shit was said.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 5, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> What facts?
> 
> What mindless reply?
> 
> ...


insisting on being wrong isn't a tactic ... is it?


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## Hayduke (Mar 5, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Typical creationist using every trick in the bag that atheists have rebutted since the shit was said.


Nice...thanks...this thread looks like fun


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## mexiblunt (Mar 7, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Yepper, my situation exactly.... 9 o'clock. I do write quite a bit however...
> 
> Now on a chalkboard, I can write both left and right equally well. Huh...
> 
> ...


Dito!! Not chathlic at all but spent 2.5 years(grade 1.5 thru 3) in chatholic school when our family moved at one point.
Eat left.
write left.
sports right.
wanking both.
hamers/drills/tools both.
strong arm right.

I can still feel the teachers rings slapping against my ears.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 7, 2010)

I wank left so ppl aren't repulsed during a handshake by my hairy palm.


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## Hayduke (Mar 7, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> I wank left so ppl aren't repulsed during a handshake by my hairy palm.


Ditto...and we appreciate it! I think my right hand must have started out as the dominant magazine page turner...which only left, well...my left!

Eat right...write really bad with my right...I think someone forced me...hockey left...bat both (more accurate right, hit further left) Right stronger.


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Typical creationist using every trick in the bag that atheists have rebutted since the shit was said.


 Ack, I can't get in depth with this today...life is short and debating and arguing for what purpose life exists is a waste of precious time.

WHY, "if" there was a "god".......WHY would he make life PERFECT in the way you seem to define it?

Can you not see that your idea of perfection is for us all to be a bunch of mindless zombies? There is NO other way for there to be peaceful coexistence upon all mankind without a superior being. You blame this on religion, but the truth P is that if it weren't religion being used to fight oneanother, it would always be something else. It is human nature to be at odds with others, simply because we will all have our own ideas of how things just "should be." According to whose ideas though?..and by what way of enforcement?

You want answers? It's so very simple. Create a bunch of robots that are programable at any given second to do your will....or instill in each individual freewill, and allow nature to take its course---novel idea.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 7, 2010)

What's the matter....can't comprehend the message? 

Read it a few times....maybe write it out as well. 

That usually always helped the remedial students I knew back in grammar school. That's how it was done. If you couldn't get the idea, the teacher had you write it out. 

Try that. 

It's simple and accurate. It distills the problem with a man made G*D.


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## Hayduke (Mar 7, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> Ack, I can't get in depth with this today...life is short and debating and arguing for what purpose life exists is a waste of precious time.
> 
> WHY, "if" there was a "god".......WHY would he make life PERFECT in the way you seem to define it?
> 
> ...


Sorry but your post seems to contradict itself...maybe it's just me??? There is just ONE of you...right?

Sounds like religion
Really?
Bad Excuse
See above
see...we can talk about it...religion screws that up
Sounds like religion
Only novel outside of the dogma...Sounds like eastern religions...nobody kills for the Buddha!


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## morgentaler (Mar 7, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> I'm so completely not Catholic CJ, with REASON.


I've never seen you use anything approaching reason yet.


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## morgentaler (Mar 7, 2010)

420HAZE420 said:


> Yeah your coming from fairytale fantasyland. Please give me your logical explanation for how everything came about, im dying to hear it


Ah yes, the troll who can define creation.
That would make you god.
Or a liar.

Guess which one we're betting on?

Next thing you're going to say that the bible is the inerrant word of god, right?


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## CrackerJax (Mar 7, 2010)

The Bible is .... whatever the church can get away with.

Back when the church held sway over global politic ... it was THE WORD ... punishable upon death for unbelievers.

Now it is the "spirit" of G*D....not the word. Can't burn ppl alive anymore.

Imagine being part of an institution which BEAT, TORTURED, and BURNED PPl ALIVE.

Just imagine....


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## Hayduke (Mar 7, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Imagine being part of an institution which BEAT, TORTURED, and BURNED PPl ALIVE.
> 
> Just imagine....


Kumbaya...


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## CrackerJax (Mar 7, 2010)

My Lord.....


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Kumbaya........


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## CrackerJax (Mar 7, 2010)

Oh Lord.....


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## mexiblunt (Mar 7, 2010)

Kumbaya.....
Someones sleeping my lord......


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## Katatawnic (Mar 7, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> To this day I turn writing paper 90 degrees because of the nuns and my being left handed (side of the devil!!  ) My Kindergarten teacher would turn my paper so it would be harder to write...so that I would switch to writing with my right hand. I adapted instead and write sideways now.
> 
> Hand of the devil..... uhhh okay .... myth...but with real consequences because the church is NUTTY!


So is that why so many lefties write with their paper sideways, and their hands twisted upside down?! I lucked out! My mom, who experienced knuckle beatings for being a leftie (in the public school system, not religious or otherwise private), taught me to write with the paper turned so that it was comfortable for my left hand to write on, and the result was my learning to write with my left hand straight. 



CrackerJax said:


> Yepper, my situation exactly.... 9 o'clock. I do write quite a bit however...
> 
> Now on a chalkboard, I can write both left and right equally well. Huh...
> 
> ...


Switch the wanking hand, and we're tied. 

My dad's family was full of old school Polish Catholics, who desperately tried to get my mom to put me in Catholic school. She adamantly refused... she had this "strange" concept of raising me to explore the world and my surroundings, and make my own choices. I love her!



shnkrmn said:


> AND CAN WE TALK ABOUT SCISSORS??????????????
> 
> Who decided that right-handed people get their own special scissors that the rest of us can't use????
> 
> end of thread-jack


OH, the fight for the measly four pair of left-handed scissors in grammar school was unreal! I finally gave up the battle, and just made myself get used to right-handed cutting. I couldn't use leftie scissors now to save my life. 



Hayduke said:


> Kumbaya...


Thanks for putting that song in my head!


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Mar 7, 2010)

what ? Kat, you too? I'm a lefty myself.  and I could never cut with the rightie scissors always used my left hand and squeezed the bladess of the scissors with my right, works for me. as far as wanking goes, I got more than enough room for 2 hands so I use 2 at one time just cause I can


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## CrackerJax (Mar 7, 2010)

Yes Kat.... I think that is why. My parents finally stepped in to stop the pressure from the nuns about my being left handed. 

I won't say the discipline didn't help me out later in life....but the penguins were a bit crazy. 

All of my teachers during my formative years would be locked up today for their behavior.


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

That usually always helped the remedial students I knew back in grammar school. That's how it was done. If you couldn't get the idea, the teacher had you write it out. 

Try that. 

Food for thought: Take your own advice and utilize throughly. 
If incapable, I'll break it down even further.


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Mar 7, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> So is that why so many lefties write with their paper sideways, and their hands twisted upside down?!


 last thread jack for the time being

..I always thought most lefties wrote this way as to not smear the fresh writing.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 7, 2010)

Sure Babs... It's me 

I'm the one who can't understand Euripides.... yah...it's me, not you. Yah...

Keep changing the subject though ... UR doing Great!!


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

Hayduke said:


> Sorry but your post seems to contradict itself...maybe it's just me??? There is just ONE of you...right?
> 
> Sounds like religion
> Really?
> ...


 
Exactly which part of once you factor out religion, man will always find reasons to be at opposition with one another did you not get?
Vietnam and Japan serve as just two countries whereas Buddhism is a dominant faith....peace abounding, eh?
In answer to your question........yes, there is just ONE of "me" that is openly admitting to believing in God.
OH THE SHAME.


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> I've never seen you use anything approaching reason yet.


"Dear, dear" Morgen.....from one who snapped and called me a CUNT "simply" for noting the real FACT that so many are trying on homosexuality for reasons of being en vogue------NOT because it is an inate trait, you are quite the one to reference "reason."

BTW, the absolute ONLY person I have EVER heard the word CUNT come from their mouth is a gay man..PERIOD, POINT BLANK......and I rest my case.


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

Dr. Greenhorn said:


> what ? Kat, you too? I'm a lefty myself.  and I could never cut with the rightie scissors always used my left hand and squeezed the bladess of the scissors with my right, works for me. as far as wanking goes, I got more than enough room for 2 hands so I use 2 at one time just cause I can


 ...you trying to say you have a big pecker?


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Yes Kat.... I think that is why. My parents finally stepped in to stop the pressure from the nuns about my being left handed.
> 
> I won't say the discipline didn't help me out later in life....but the penguins were a bit crazy.
> 
> All of my teachers during my formative years would be locked up today for their behavior.


 *The discipline did not help you C*J...do not be deluded. *


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## afrawfraw (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm growing GOD in my closet.


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Sure Babs... It's me
> 
> I'm the one who can't understand Euripides.... yah...it's me, not you. Yah...
> 
> Keep changing the subject though ... UR doing Great!!


......indeed it is.
You are the MASTA.


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> i'm growing god in my closet.


amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## afrawfraw (Mar 7, 2010)

I WISH I could believe in a god. How comforting religion must be. To feel belonging and security and to have it all explained...


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> I WISH I could believe in a god. How comforting religion must be. To feel belonging and security and to have it all explained...


 *It's a PROcess.....I do not pretend to understand any single thing in all its complexities.*


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## Katatawnic (Mar 7, 2010)

Dr. Greenhorn said:


> what ? Kat, you too? I'm a lefty myself.  and I could never cut with the rightie scissors always used my left hand and squeezed the bladess of the scissors with my right, works for me. *as far as wanking goes, I got more than enough room for 2 hands so I use 2 at one time just cause I can*


Braggart!  See, that statement coming from a woman just wouldn't sound right. 



Dr. Greenhorn said:


> ..I always thought most lefties wrote this way as to not smear the fresh writing.


Nah, I write with the top of the paper pointing to about 2 o'clock, and my hand is completely below the fresh ink. I've always thought that the paper turned bassackwards and holding the hand twisted on top of the writing is what would smear it.



Babs34 said:


> "Dear, dear" Morgen.....from one who snapped and called me a CUNT "simply" for noting the real FACT that so many are trying on homosexuality for reasons of being en vogue------NOT because it is an inate trait, you are quite the one to reference "reason."
> 
> BTW, the absolute ONLY person I have EVER heard the word CUNT come from their mouth is a gay man..PERIOD, POINT BLANK......and I rest my case.


What FACT is that, Babs? I've yet to meet anyone "trying on homosexuality" because it is "en vogue" or for any reason other than it is their preference. The fact that homosexuality is slightly more acceptable than it used to be in society indeed would factor into more people doing what feels right and good to them instead of what "societal norm" deems proper, as well as being honest about it to others. Having the courage to be oneself is a far cry from being trendy. How is it "en vogue" to be hated and ridiculed (or worse) by others, and told marriage is impossible due to one's "en vogue" lifestyle, etc.? 

RE: calling others "cunt"... if you've never heard this from anyone but a gay man, then your life must have been lived very sheltered. I've heard it come from more mouths than I'd like to have heard (not always directed at me ), male and female mouths both; the vast majority of them hetero.


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Braggart!  See, that statement coming from a woman just wouldn't sound right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Well Kat, your situation at hand is yours.....mine is what has been dealt. I have NEVER EVER been called a cunt by any single person "other than" a gay man----has nothing to do with being raised in a sheltered life.....this I can honestly ASSURE you. That is a very derrogatory word used to express hatred towards a woman. Your typical heterosexual man will use terms such as "bitch, slut, whore".........NOT CUNT. I grew up with a gay brother Kat, and along with that, his gay friends......very much a derrogatory statement via the gay man........I have noted it all too many times. AGAIN, NEVER heard it from ANY man other than a gay man......and again, positively nothing to do with a sheltered life........anything but.
And I do mean, ANYTHING but.
I see how it is so easy to misread, yet at the same time, I can't argue your choice of words here---"trying on homosexuality"....it's REAL Kat. There is an enormous growth with that expermental factor...I have PERSONALLY witnessed it all too many times for it to NOT be noted. I have had SO many female "friends" or "aquantenaces" who were otherwise straight just suddenly try on being a lesbian for size......often for the sake of pleasing their male partner................sometimes for shock value among family members.........but RARELY, if EVER, because it was their INATE belief that the same sex was FOR THEM.


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## Babs34 (Mar 7, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> Well Kat, your situation at hand is yours.....mine is what has been dealt. I have NEVER EVER been called a cunt by any single person "other than" a gay man----has nothing to do with being raised in a sheltered life.....this I can honestly ASSURE you. That is a very derrogatory word used to express hatred towards a woman. Your typical heterosexual man will use terms such as "bitch, slut, whore".........NOT CUNT. I grew up with a gay brother Kat, and along with that, his gay friends......very much a derrogatory statement via the gay man........I have noted it all too many times. AGAIN, NEVER heard it from ANY man other than a gay man......and again, positively nothing to do with a sheltered life........anything but.
> And I do mean, ANYTHING but.
> I see how it is so easy to misread, yet at the same time, I can't argue your choice of words here---"trying on homosexuality"....it's REAL Kat. There is an enormous growth with that expermental factor...I have PERSONALLY witnessed it all too many times for it to NOT be noted. I have had SO many female "friends" or "aquantenaces" who were otherwise straight just suddenly try on being a lesbian for size......often for the sake of pleasing their male partner................sometimes for shock value among family members.........but RARELY, if EVER, because it was their INATE belief that the same sex was FOR THEM.


 BTW, ever met a gay man that didn't have embedded issues with their mother? Dig deep. I don't make references to my growing up with ONE gay brother, but by speaking with NUMEROUS gay men.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 8, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> Well Kat, your situation at hand is yours.....mine is what has been dealt. I have NEVER EVER been called a cunt by any single person "other than" a gay man----has nothing to do with being raised in a sheltered life.....this I can honestly ASSURE you. That is a very derrogatory word used to express hatred towards a woman. Your typical heterosexual man will use terms such as "bitch, slut, whore".........NOT CUNT. I grew up with a gay brother Kat, and along with that, his gay friends......very much a derrogatory statement via the gay man........I have noted it all too many times. AGAIN, NEVER heard it from ANY man other than a gay man......and again, positively nothing to do with a sheltered life........anything but.
> And I do mean, ANYTHING but.
> I see how it is so easy to misread, yet at the same time, I can't argue your choice of words here---"trying on homosexuality"....it's REAL Kat. There is an enormous growth with that expermental factor...I have PERSONALLY witnessed it all too many times for it to NOT be noted. I have had SO many female "friends" or "aquantenaces" who were otherwise straight just suddenly try on being a lesbian for size......often for the sake of pleasing their male partner................sometimes for shock value among family members.........but RARELY, if EVER, because it was their INATE belief that the same sex was FOR THEM.


Well, your post stated that you'd never heard the word come from anyone's mouth but a gay man's, not that you'd only been CALLED such a gay man. I replied to what your words stated.  Further, I don't personally find cunt any more insulting than bitch, slut, whore, etc.; nor any less, mind you. If a word is said with malicious intent, the intent is there.

Experimentation is also not a new thing, nor is it growing; at least not by much. Again, it's simply being admitted to a lot more now. There is a tremendous difference. People are less afraid to admit to their desires and/or actions, because, as I stated before, homosexuality (sexuality, period) is a bit more socially acceptable as of late. Now, experimenting for the sake of shock value or pleasing one's partner, etc., isn't about being trendy; it's simply acting out in the hopes of gaining attention due to low self esteem. It's still not a "trendy" thing, though; just sad.

I don't often tell people that I'm bisexual and polyamorous because I quickly got tired of being *told by others* that I'm "only" experimenting and/or trying to be trendy, etc. The fact that I've been in a monogamous relationship for the last five years would make many think that their arguments are bolstered, their points proven. People make assumptions based on their personal preferences, lifestyle choices, and what they're told. That doesn't mean they are correct.

I've been told by people who have no idea what they're talking about that I can not be bisexual nor polyamorous because I don't want to screw every person I meet, and don't cheat on my partner. They don't understand that one doesn't have to be in a polyamorous relationship in order to be polyamorous, and that one doesn't have to be juggling many male and female partners simultaneously in order to be bisexual. I've been in monogamous relationships with men, monogamous relationships with women, and polyamorous relationships with both. (Please don't mistake polyamory for the "swinging" lifestyle, as they are completely different.) None of it was experimenting; I knew exactly what I wanted and how I felt, and I acted accordingly each time. Nor was it for shock value, nor to please anyone but myself and those whom I've loved.

I happen to be a bisexual, polyamorous woman who is in a heterosexual, monogamous relationship that is (generally, lol) secure, stable, and loving. Although the main reason my relationship is monogamous is because of how my partner feels about it, I don't feel like I'm "missing out" because I have only one partner, male or female. I guess I just don't feel so confined to "just" men, or women, or how many people I love.

Now, all that said on a very tired Sunday evening (meaning yes, I know I'm rambling and have likely repeated myself in this post), I can say with confidence that, aside from heterosexuality (as of course that is the norm), there will likely be some "experimenting" in the beginning, simply because as "sure" as so many people are about their sexuality, they likely aren't 100% sure until they've been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. I'll gladly admit that there was "tentative experimentation" with my first girlfriend, because it was the first time I'd not only admitted my feelings out loud, but more importantly acted on them. I could indeed have been "wrong" about being bisexual, and instead have only been curious, hence feeling "experimental" at first. But trust me, the only thing that subsided was my not being 100% sure that I was truly bisexual until I first experimented, and continued with that relationship for over a year. 



Babs34 said:


> BTW, ever met a gay man that didn't have embedded issues with their mother? Dig deep. I don't make references to my growing up with ONE gay brother, but by speaking with NUMEROUS gay men.


Yes, I absolutely have. How many straight men have you met that don't have issues with their mothers and/or fathers? Straight women? People, period? Having issues with one's parents is the norm, not the exception. And it's certainly not a sexual orientation related thing.


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Well, your post stated that you'd never heard the word come from anyone's mouth but a gay man's, not that you'd only been CALLED such a gay man. I replied to what your words stated.  Further, I don't personally find cunt any more insulting than bitch, slut, whore, etc.; nor any less, mind you. If a word is said with malicious intent, the intent is there.
> 
> Experimentation is also not a new thing, nor is it growing; at least not by much. Again, it's simply being admitted to a lot more now. There is a tremendous difference. People are less afraid to admit to their desires and/or actions, because, as I stated before, homosexuality (sexuality, period) is a bit more socially acceptable as of late. Now, experimenting for the sake of shock value or pleasing one's partner, etc., isn't about being trendy; it's simply acting out in the hopes of gaining attention due to low self esteem. It's still not a "trendy" thing, though; just sad.
> 
> ...


Wowza....too entirely much to digest for my being on this clock.....it's earlier for you.
Personally, I DO find "cunt" to hold a bit more derrogartory value...simply "because" it has only been heard "by" a gay man.
"Naturally" MOST have at least one or another issue with their mother/father........but BET on it, there IS a pattern like no other in the male/female role in parenthood when acknowledging a TRUE homosexual. A gay man is almost ALWAYS overly protected by his mother or has an EXTREMELY domineering mother, and either an entirely absent father or role model that exhibits absence in one way or another.
Look Kat, I appreciate your honesty here with your excursions............but truth is truth. You just ARE one or the other. When it comes to preferences, you are "either or." Bisexuality falls into play of just "playing." There IS such a thing as peference.
I've never been afraid to admit that I find the woman's body beautiful......but I haven't the inate capacity to go down on one,.......it's just not me.
I love men......for their bodies. It just so happens that nine out of ten times, their minds ROYALLY SUCK.
"However"....because I can share this heartfelt feeling with other females does not necessiate a need to have sex with them.
LOL, I have stories galore......just one tiny example----one of my best friends growing up. I used to take this girl and throw her over my shoulder at high school parties because guys would FUCK her WHILE SHE WAS PASSED OUT!!!!!!!!!!!! How could I feel good about going home semi-sober knowing she was being raped??????? I did this for 2 out of her 4 HS years.
You know how she thanked me? HAHAHHHA, I'm sorry, it's funny "now." I moved in with her at the age of 21, after having not been around her for YEARS. It turned out she was the "same ole, same ole".........in short, she was simply a slut.
The phone rang off the hook...whenver she wasn't there (she randomly gave her phone number out to EVERY GUY SHE MET).........SO, whenever she wasn't passing out an invitation to screw her, she was coming on to me!!!
She was NOT a lesbian, just a lost fucking soul in search of SOMEthing, ANYthing that would bring her gratification in one way or another. It was VERY sad.
I guarantee you though.........that girl was no lesbian and had she not been brought up in such a fucked up environment, she would have never had a single encounter with another female.
My take is that you are either inately attracted to either your own or the opposite sex.........anything else is just PLAY.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 8, 2010)

So Babs, tell me: was I just playing with the women I've loved, or just playing with the men? Let me guess... it must be the women, since I'm currently in a relationship with a man, correct?

Or did I simply grow up in a fucked up environment, else I'd never have had a single encounter with another female?

I'm awaiting your diagnonsense, Dr. Babs. You obviously know who I am and how I feel and what my preferences are (or aren't) much more than I do.

BTW, what did your parents do to your brother? Did your mother smother or neglect him? Was your father non-existent or overbearing? Why didn't you end up a screwed up lesbian from the fucked up environment your brother MUST have had?


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## Katatawnic (Mar 8, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> Look Kat, I appreciate your honesty here with your excursions............but truth is truth. You just ARE one or the other. When it comes to preferences, you are "either or." Bisexuality falls into play of just "playing." There IS such a thing as peference.
> I've never been afraid to admit that I find the woman's body beautiful......but I haven't the inate compacity to go down on one,.......it's just not me.
> I love men......for their bodies. It just so happens that nine out of ten times, their minds ROYALLY SUCK.
> "However"....because I can share this heartfelt feeling with other females does not necessiate a need to have sex with them.


Describing how *you* feel about male and female anatomy doesn't make it a *fact* for all other people.  I know it feels comfy to look that something all wrapped up into a pretty package, but it's only paper and bows. Decorations don't change the contents; they only hide them from your view.

I don't know why you feel so threatened by what isn't the societal norm, but covering your eyes and explaining it away won't make it disappear.


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Mar 8, 2010)

well, getting back to the scissors issue, was it the same everywhere as far as the color coding of the scissors was? green for lefty, red for righty?


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## Katatawnic (Mar 8, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> Personally, I DO find "cunt" to hold a bit more derrogartory value...simply "because" it has only been heard "by" a gay man.


Whoa, I just now noticed this one... so if you'd heard it "by" a straight woman, would that make it less derogatory? You really have a problem with gays. Is this a Bible thing, or resentment about your brother, or fear, or what?


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## eggsonbass (Mar 8, 2010)

For me it's simply obvious that religion is all made up. I tried to vie the whole thing a good solid run, believe me, but i just kept running into the same fucking thing- evolution. every religion on earth has evolved. woops.


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> So Babs, tell me: was I just playing with the women I've loved, or just playing with the men? Let me guess... it must be the women, since I'm currently in a relationship with a man, correct?
> 
> Or did I simply grow up in a fucked up environment, else I'd never have had a single encounter with another female?
> 
> ...


 *My mother was both overbearing and neglectful.......my father allowed her to wear the pants in all matters.*
*As for the diagnosis, it would appear you are readily prepared to diagnose my upbringing as having been "sheltered" Kat. I've lived through some rather extrodinary events in my life....."sheltered" is not an adjective that comes into play.*
*Why you are making such a play on my acknowledging to Morgen that by calling me a cunt, he was in no way adding "substance" (as I've been accused of).....well, Kat....what can I say? This too is beyond me.*
*I'm a very laid back person. What you choose to do with your personal life is your personal business.*
*I am only stating the facts. There is always a preference.*
*I am who I am because God made me that way.....and I'm still working on His will.*


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Whoa, I just now noticed this one... so if you'd heard it "by" a straight woman, would that make it less derogatory? You really have a problem with gays. Is this a Bible thing, or resentment about your brother, or fear, or what?


 *none of the above Kat.....none of the above.*
*You are reading entirely too much into the little I stated.*


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## Katatawnic (Mar 8, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *As for the diagnosis, it would appear you are readily prepared to diagnose my upbringing as having been "sheltered" Kat. I've lived through some rather extrodinary events in my life....."sheltered" is not an adjective that comes into play.*


There's a difference between sarcasm and telling others who/what they are as if you have some kind of authority on a subject about which you obviously know nothing.



> *Why you are making such a play on my acknowledging to Morgen that by calling me a cunt, he was in no way adding "substance" (as I've been accused of).....well, Kat....what can I say? This too is beyond me.*


I never stated whether or not Morgen was adding substance to any conversation by calling anyone by any name.  Reread my posts and you'll see this, but I'm not going to sit here and explain what is crystal clear in the words I typed. I'm having a discussion, not playing childish word games.



> *I'm a very laid back person. What you choose to do with your personal life is your personal business.*


Perhaps you'd come off as a "very laid back person" if you'd actually listen to what others tell you about their *personal experiences* rather than telling them that they're wrong, because you know the *facts* and therefore they can't possibly be right about *themselves*.



> *I am only stating the facts. There is always a preference.*


Facts as *you* are *insisting* on seeing them. Stubbornly, might I add. Cite your *facts* with sources, or drop the word.

Again, you proclaim to *know* what I think, feel, want, etc. Are you a genius, or psychic? Whatever it is, I bow to you... I apparently wouldn't know myself if you weren't here to correct me. Perhaps you'll figure out for me whether I'm straight or gay once and for all, while you're at it.



> *I am who I am because God made me that way.....and I'm still working on His will.*


What if his will is for you to open your eyes and stop being ignorant?




Babs34 said:


> *none of the above Kat.....none of the above.*
> *You are reading entirely too much into the little I stated.*


Let's see what you stated again...



Babs34 said:


> Personally, I DO find "cunt" to hold a bit more derrogartory value...simply "because" it has only been heard "by" a gay man.


What "little" you stated screamed volumes. I stand by my response.


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

.such a LOVELY way to start my day. 


Quote:
Originally Posted by *Babs34*  
_*As for the diagnosis, it would appear you are readily prepared to diagnose my upbringing as having been "sheltered" Kat. I've lived through some rather extraordinary events in my life....."sheltered" is not an adjective that comes into play.*_

There's a difference between sarcasm and telling others who/what they are as if you have some kind of authority on a subject about which you obviously know nothing.
I told you who you are Kat? Really? Where? If you look back on these posts where it is you who initially posted "to me"..it is crystal clear that it is "you" telling me who I am.
OK, I've hung out with far too many gay men for you to state I "obviously know nothing."

Quote:
*Why you are making such a play on my acknowledging to Morgen that by calling me a cunt, he was in no way adding "substance" (as I've been accused of).....well, Kat....what can I say? This too is beyond me.* 
I never stated whether or not Morgen was adding substance to any conversation by calling anyone by any name.  Reread my posts and you'll see this, but I'm not going to sit here and explain what is crystal clear in the words I typed. I'm having a discussion, not playing childish word games.
...and I never accused you of calling any one a name or referencing to Morgen's "substance".. YES, please do re-read. I really don't know where you got that from my above statement. I was referencing to HIM and YOU used it as an opportunity to jump in to the conversation....just to harangue me, I might add. You so completely misread. This is why I have skipped out on reading any posts on this thread for awhile now. So many of you have already formed your opinion COMPLETELY about those of us who believe in God and WHAT it is we believe. One can only bang their head against the wall so many times before waking up and smelling the coffee. There are no "discussions" on this thread. Never once have I witnessed any proclaimed Christian chime in so they could proselytize. Every last time a fellow believer dared to post, they were jumped on like prey from others. Please, there are no discussions on this thread....just attacks already formed because of pre-judgment. Questions are posed to a believer, but an honest answer is not what is sought on this thread, as has been evident. It's really getting old watching the "come-back" from the atheist to demand that a believer prove God.....otherwise they are "stupid."
That was solely my response to how confusing I found it that you were breaking apart my every sentence in defense mode....no need to be that way with me.

There is no desire on my part to bash gay people...NONE. Why you are attempting to note me as homophobic is ridiculously laughable. Again, you are telling me who I am, not vice verca.

You state that you "were having a discussion." A discussion entails asking questions when in doubt, not just emphatically and falsely accusing others of their beliefs.

Sorry if as I stated "verbatim" that I feel there is always a preference offended you...sheesh.

Quote:
*I'm a very laid back person. What you choose to do with your personal life is your personal business.* 
Perhaps you'd come off as a "very laid back person" if you'd actually listen to what others tell you about their *personal experiences* rather than telling them that they're wrong, because you know the *facts* and therefore they can't possibly be right about *themselves*.
I did listen....or rather read. Again, I don't know why you find it so offensive that you feel this need to put me on a stand. AGAIN, I told you that you were "wrong"...about what? You lost me Kat.
I told you positively nothing about *yourself.* Why are you getting so defensive with me?

Quote:
*I am only stating the facts. There is always a preference.* 
Facts as *you* are *insisting* on seeing them. Stubbornly, might I add. Cite your *facts* with sources, or drop the word.

Again, you proclaim to *know* what I think, feel, want, etc. Are you a genius, or psychic? Whatever it is, I bow to you... I apparently wouldn't know myself if you weren't here to correct me. Perhaps you'll figure out for me whether I'm straight or gay once and for all, while you're at it.
Kat, there was not a single second of my posting last night where I was being stubborn. In fact, one of the first things I said was that it was later for me than you. I was on my way to bed. I promise you the last thing on my mind was telling you who you are or ANALYZING you ..the Dr. Babs comment, along with some other choice words you threw out were just outlandish...and so very uncalled for. I wish you would see that.
When in doubt, ask me.
Had I known in advance that by my merely posting was going to create such havoc, I'd of gone to bed earlier........dayum.
Sorry.....I can't tell you if you're gay or straight. I don't have enough information to guide you there.

*I am who I am because God made me that way.....and I'm still working on His will.* 
What if his will is for you to open your eyes and stop being ignorant?
That was just low Kat. I reserve that kind of response from cj. There was no "discussion"....just one accusation after another from you.
"Ignorance" is defined by the beholder who portrays themself as knowing something to be absolute truth.....that being said, every last one of us posting here is ignorant in that case.

Post 1, 938---*....I do not pretend to understand any single thing in all its complexities.*


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

mexiblunt said:


> Kumbaya.....
> Someones sleeping my lord......


 *Kumbayaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*
..passing the peace pipe around.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 8, 2010)

Someones scared my lord, Kumbayaa, Someone's ignorant my lord, kumbayaa, someones insecure my lord kumbayaa, stop asking questions, kumbayaa. "I said CANNABIS, not Franchensense!" - GOD


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## afrawfraw (Mar 8, 2010)

What if our whole universe is a PETRI DISH?


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> Someones scared my lord, Kumbayaa, Someone's ignorant my lord, kumbayaa, someones insecure my lord kumbayaa, stop asking questions, kumbayaa. "I said CANNABIS, not Franchensense!" - GOD


 *And I said amennnnnn.*
*No misconstruing on my end.*
*Are you CJ's alter ego? or maybe just one of his disciples?*
*Loosen up that tie a bit and relax.*


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## OregonMeds (Mar 8, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> Wowza....too entirely much to digest for my being on this clock.....it's earlier for you.
> Personally, I DO find "cunt" to hold a bit more derrogartory value...simply "because" it has only been heard "by" a gay man.
> "Naturally" MOST have at least one or another issue with their mother/father........but BET on it, there IS a pattern like no other in the male/female role in parenthood when acknowledging a TRUE homosexual. A gay man is almost ALWAYS overly protected by his mother or has an EXTREMELY domineering mother, and either an entirely absent father or role model that exhibits absence in one way or another.
> Look Kat, I appreciate your honesty here with your excursions............but truth is truth. You just ARE one or the other. When it comes to preferences, you are "either or." Bisexuality falls into play of just "playing." There IS such a thing as peference.
> ...


Hi my name is babs...
"Just a lost fucking soul in search of something."


Clueless Babs, you don't even have an opinion of your own do you, and you don't realize where your opinions even came from do you?


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Hi my name is babs...
> "Just a lost fucking soul in search of something."
> 
> 
> Clueless Babs, you don't even have an opinion of your own do you, and you don't realize where your opinions even came from do you?


 
oh look, another disciple.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 8, 2010)

Oooooohhhhhh!! A pissing contest...i remember these from mensa.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 8, 2010)

And who the hell is cj? "When the fuck did we get ice cream?" - The Ringer


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## CrackerJax (Mar 8, 2010)

Babs believes what she believes....but can't defend it. Babs doesn't CARE about evidence, she just wants to feel comfort from the myth. I understand.... really I do.

It's pretty simple. Very simple. Simple.


^^^^^^

I am CJ and I have a gang.  Or so "they" say. It's better for their ego to think that is takes a concerted effort to dispel the myth of religion. It doesn't....just a bit of common sense and the discipline to not think of yourself as the center of it all.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 8, 2010)

CRACKER JAX...Got it...Sorry, I grow really good weed...


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## shnkrmn (Mar 8, 2010)

Hey, afrawfraw, nice plant!



afrawfraw said:


> CRACKER JAX...Got it...Sorry, I grow really good weed...


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## afrawfraw (Mar 8, 2010)

YOU SEE "THEM" TOO! OMG!!! HA HA HA HA! I'm a god! I have billions of fungi and bacteria in my organic soil. I use other types of fungi and bacteria to control "PESTS" that I do not want in my environment. The BILLIONS of organisms have no evidence that I exist. They are not aware of my presence at all. I could shout BOOO! It won't scare them. If the fungi against my roots multiply too quickly, I destroy them by the millions using predatory organisms. I control what lives, what dies, and what thrives...If you agree that I am a GOD, I will agree that there may be another life form controlling our universe, perhaps one that WE ARE NOT AWARE OF YET...


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Mar 8, 2010)

Funny shit shnkrmn!


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## OregonMeds (Mar 8, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Babs believes what she believes....but can't defend it. Babs doesn't CARE about evidence, she just wants to feel comfort from the myth. I understand.... really I do.
> 
> It's pretty simple. Very simple. Simple.
> 
> ...



The warm blanket of ignorance holds her like an invisible personal snuggy.

Babs, I am bi and Kat is bi and it's incredibly ignorant to think you understand something you have no knowledge of at all, and to hold your misguided opinions over the truths people try to tell you. 

Those that have the most experience in a subject are those you should think about trying to learn from and we live the life and try to explain and nothing gets through. 

If you want to know about pot are you going to ask your pastor to get your opinion, or would you maybe talk to some people with actual experience? Or would you do both and then weight each opinion based on what each person really knew or what they were just told or heard?


Maybe you can discount some people here and there, some opinions here and there, but when expert after expert agree but still nothing ever gets through to you...

That snuggie is cutting off the oxygen to your brain. I like to poke fun at you, but I'm not your enemy and have always attempted to try to open your eyes to at least some truths in life.

Listen to the pro's and those that really know, start learning to weigh opinions and think for yourself and figure things out.

Some are polite and patient about it, some lost patience with you long ago and just rip on you, and some do both and like to get a dig in every once in a while because you are really laughable but this is not some evil conspiracy or whatever. Not one person has lied to you or misdirected you.

In any subject the people to get the best information from are the people who have lived it, been there, done that. Yet you cling to the idea you know more about something, everything really.

Not just lost babs, you are full on delusional. Look it up.


I


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## Katatawnic (Mar 8, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> .such a LOVELY way to start my day.


Nice sympathy play there, Babs.

 I told you who you are Kat? Really? Where? If you look back on these posts where it is you who initially posted "to me"..it is crystal clear that it is "you" telling me who I am.
Let's see... I suggested you lived a sheltered life as you've "only" heard the word "cunt" come from a gay man's mouth, and I said you must really have a problem with gays (actually, I believe I said something to the effect of "lifestyles outside of the societal norm") to make the statements you made; those are difficult to refute as you posted those statements here, in black and white. You, on the other hand, proceeded to tell me the "facts" about myself based on your opinion about sexuality, about which you are *absolutely wrong*. Such as...



Babs34 said:


> Look Kat, I appreciate your honesty here with your excursions............but truth is truth. You just ARE one or the other. When it comes to preferences, you are "either or." Bisexuality falls into play of just "playing." There IS such a thing as peference.
> 
> I guarantee you though.........that girl was no lesbian [I'm willing to bet she never claimed to be] and had she not been brought up in such a fucked up environment, she would have never had a single encounter with another female.
> My take is that you are either inately attracted to either your own or the opposite sex.........anything else is just PLAY.





Babs34 said:


> What you choose to do with your personal life is your personal business.
> I am only stating the facts. There is always a preference.


Yeah, you're right... you never once told me who/what I am. Just the "facts" eh? 


 OK, I've hung out with far too many gay men for you to state I "obviously know nothing."
I wasn't talking about gays. I was talking about bisexuality, as a part of what is known as the GLBT Community. More to the point, I freely gave myself as an example... mind you, in the attempt to explain to you the whole "en vogue" concept you falsely have about "most" people "trying on homosexuality" nowadays. (Your words, Babs, not mine.) You see, I'm able to grasp the difference between "homosexual" and "bisexual" whereas apparently you don't. More to the point, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of one, which I am and told you so, yet you still insist that I'm wrong about myself (after all, the "fact" is that I'm "either/or" and anything else is "just" PLAY... ring any bells?).

I repeat: you obviously know nothing about what you're spouting.


 ...and I never accused you of calling any one a name or referencing to Morgen's "substance".. YES, please do re-read
And I never accused you of accusing me of calling anyone a name or referencing Morgen's "substance" either.
I really don't know where you got that from my above statement.
**sigh** From your posts.
I was referencing to HIM and YOU used it as an opportunity to jump in to the conversation....
It's a public forum discussion, to which I chose to add my points for clarification.
just to harangue me, I might add. 
Yes Babs, that's exactly what I did, exactly what I always do... go around "abusing" others just to "harangue" them. It's my M.O., dontcha know.  Do you play Victim IRL Babs, or do you reserve this just for the Internetz?
You so completely misread. 
No, that would be you. Consistently, it appears.
This is why I have skipped out on reading any posts on this thread for awhile now. So many of you have already formed your opinion COMPLETELY about those of us who believe in God and WHAT it is we believe.
And you don't ever form your opinion about those who don't believe in a god. Now I see you form your own opinion about homosexuals and bisexuals as well, put the label "fact" on your opinions, and then expect others to just nod emphatically... when they are what you claim does not exist.
One can only bang their head against the wall so many times before waking up and smelling the coffee. 
Kind of like how I've continued to give you the benefit of doubt, in spite of your outbursts and constant jabs at those who dare to contradict anything you say? Yeah, I'm done with that wall. My head hurts.
There are no "discussions" on this thread. 
No discussions that are to your liking, at any rate. *HINT:* This is a thread about atheism, yet you feel the desire or need or right (or whatever the hell it is) to repeatedly post in here with smug little remarks and (poorly) "veiled" insults.
Never once have I witnessed any proclaimed Christian chime in so they could proselytize. 
Never once have you witnessed me rush into threads about Christianity just so I can tell the Christians how wrong they are, and make stupid little jabs at them any opportunity I get.
Every last time a fellow believer dared to post, they were jumped on like prey from others. Please, there are no discussions on this thread....just attacks already formed because of pre-judgment.
Oh, please! Your role of Victim is a willing one when, again, you come into a thread about atheism in the first place.
Questions are posed to a believer, but an honest answer is not what is sought on this thread, as has been evident.
Honesty is all we've sought in this thread, from ourselves and from anyone else who "dares" to post.
It's really getting old watching the "come-back" from the atheist to demand that a believer prove God.....otherwise they are "stupid."
It's really getting old watching the "come back" from the believer to demand that an atheist prove there is no god... otherwise they are "stupid"... oh, and "damned" as well.
That was solely my response to how confusing I found it that you were breaking apart my every sentence in defense mode....no need to be that way with me. 
You broke apart my existence. But there's no need for me to "be that way" (defend myself and who/what I am) with you, eh? 

There is no desire on my part to bash gay people...NONE. Why you are attempting to note me as homophobic is ridiculously laughable. Again, you are telling me who I am, not vice verca.
Refer to my response above RE: who's telling whom who/what they are. According to you, I don't even exist.

You state that you "were having a discussion." A discussion entails asking questions when in doubt, not just emphatically and falsely accusing others of their beliefs. 
Did you do this for me, or did you simply tell me that I can't be bisexual, because, after all, the "fact" is that a person is "either/or" (gay or straight) but no in between, because that is "just PLAY."

Sorry if as I stated "verbatim" that I feel there is always a preference offended you...sheesh.
"Always" being the key word. "Fact" being another key word. "Truth" as well. *All* stated by you to me, about me. But no offense should be taken, huh Babs? SHEESH.

I did listen....or rather read. 
Apparently not. You seem to "read" what words you want to be there.
Again, I don't know why you find it so offensive that you feel this need to put me on a stand. AGAIN, I told you that you were "wrong"...about what? You lost me Kat.
You're the one who's lost. 
I told you positively nothing about *yourself.* Why are you getting so defensive with me?
**sigh** 

Kat, there was not a single second of my posting last night where I was being stubborn. 
  Sure Babs, sure. You're right, I'm wrong, end of story. Happy now? 
In fact, one of the first things I said was that it was later for me than you. I was on my way to bed. 
And I said in my first post of this particular discussion that I was tired at the end of a long Sunday day/evening, hence the probable rambling, etc. Your point?
I promise you the last thing on my mind was telling you who you are or ANALYZING you 
I call bullshit.
..the Dr. Babs comment, along with some other choice words you threw out were just outlandish...and so very uncalled for. I wish you would see that. 
I reserved myself from using choice words I truly felt and thought about your entire display of ignorance and stubbornness. Trust me on that.

When in doubt, ask me. 
In other words, give to you what you refuse to give to others.

Had I known in advance that by my merely posting was going to create such havoc, I'd of gone to bed earlier........dayum.
Break out the violin, everyone!  Are you a reincarnation of Mozart, per chance?

Sorry.....I can't tell you if you're gay or straight. I don't have enough information to guide you there.
I spoon fed you the fucking information!  My request for a diagnonsense from you was sheer sarcasm. Look it up.

That was just low Kat. I reserve that kind of response from cj.
Ah yes, the Demonic CJ... who's been kinder to me than probably anyone else on RIU, though I've never once asked for his kindness. And just a little FYI, no, he and I do not agree on everything; maybe half of our beliefs/positions are the same. I simply don't go making shots below the belt when I don't agree with him; probably why he's never been rude to me. You should try straight shooting sometime, Babs. You may find that you are better received.
There was no "discussion"....just one accusation after another from you.
*Oh.My.God.*

"Ignorance" is defined by the beholder who portrays themself as knowing something to be absolute truth.....
Such as using "fact" and "truth" and "either/or" in your statements about the honesty others freely give about their personal lives in order to help someone like you understand something instead of spouting "facts" pulled out of your ass?
that being said, every last one of us posting here is ignorant in that case.
Some are more ignorant than others. Willfully, might I add.

Post 1, 938---*....I do not pretend to understand any single thing in all its complexities.* 
Actually, it was post 1,937. And if you don't pretend, then you must be "playing for reelz" because you sure as hell "understand" that I am "either/or" but can't be in the middle... that's all just PLAY, after all.


Now, as I preview this mess, I see that you've distracted me from the fun I could have been having on this forum I've so come to love. You've taken up quite enough of my time. More than enough.

*One more little FYI:* Your belief in God has absolutely nothing to do with how infuriating you are. Rather, it's your smug attitude that gets people so damn frustrated. You make your assumptions about others based on your opinions stated as facts, with nothing to back up your facts aside from your uninformed opinions, then wonder why everyone's "haranguing" you. Cry me a goddamn river. 


*To everyone else:* I genuinely apologize for the dramatic disruption. I make no excuses. However, the *fact* is that some people simply bring out the worst in others.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 8, 2010)

Holey mackerel! That was like a dime novella!

Some good advice in there.


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Babs believes what she believes....but can't defend it. Babs doesn't CARE about evidence, she just wants to feel comfort from the myth. I understand.... really I do.
> 
> It's pretty simple. Very simple. Simple.
> 
> ...


CJ, you are so witty.

CJ, you and a few others spend more time telling me who I am and what I believe when I have made it abundantly clear I do not adhere to any religion.

And I've said endless times that there is nothing for me to defend. 
"They" follow your lead cj. You are a magnet for followers dear.

* Babs doesn't CARE about evidence, she just wants to feel comfort from the myth. I understand.... really I do.*
LOL, if I went back and cited every last time I re-directed you, among others, that I don't believe in religion, it would exceed the 50X mark....very easily.
I have the comprehension of a gnat?


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Hi my name is babs...
> "Just a lost fucking soul in search of something."
> 
> 
> Clueless Babs, you don't even have an opinion of your own do you, and you don't realize where your opinions even came from do you?


..btw, since WHEN did you EVER ask me for an opinion on any topic? You are way too busy following others lead.

Clueless Babs, you don't even have an opinion of your own do you, *and you don't realize where your opinions even came from do you? *
I'm betting you can tell me, because you just know me that well, LOL.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> And who the hell is cj?
> .....a figment of his own imagination.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> The warm blanket of ignorance holds her like an invisible personal snuggy.
> 
> Babs, I am bi and Kat is bi and it's incredibly ignorant to think you understand something you have no knowledge of at all, and to hold your misguided opinions over the truths people try to tell you.
> 
> ...


*The warm blanket of ignorance holds* *me like an invisible personal snuggy? LOL, is this your way of being poetic? BTW, the snuggy is not a myth.....got one for Christmas and I hate the damn thing. *
Babs, I am bi and Kat is bi 
*and? are congratualtions in order here?*

and it's incredibly ignorant to think you understand something you have no knowledge of at all, and to hold your misguided opinions over the truths people try to tell you. 
*It has been commanded of me countless times now to "prove" this, "prove" that. You can't even show me where I commented towards Kat by analyzing her bisexuality. *

*I LOVE how my telling about one of my best friends sleeping with another woman turned into my assesment of Kat...or you for that matter.*

*I point out that she was neither a lesbian, nor was she bi-sexual and that calls for rants on end?  *
*What's ignorant is for you to not read what I said, and instead create your own version.*

Those that have the most experience in a subject are those you should think about trying to learn from and we live the life and try to explain and nothing gets through. 

*Dude, back up and read your own words. I hung out with TONS AND TONS of gay men. My brother I reference to was one of my best friends at that time. Going out to gay bars was more entertaining to me than a straight one........you get to dance minus being come on to, while enjoying the company of others.......OH MY Oregon.........and wouldn't you guess? Most were either bi-sexual or altogether homosexual! So much for the myth of phobia on my behalf OR not knowing by way of first hand experience! The gay lifestyle was a big part of my existence......still is to some degree.*
*If you "want" my opinion, ask for it, but don't load a bunch of bullshit into a scenario that just doesn't exist.*

*Misguided opinion? About what? My friend I was referring to? Even she knew she wasn't bi-sexual. I think it's safe to say I know that situation at hand more than you. She was one of my very best friends! *

*Nothing shocks me on this thread for even more than a fleeting second at this point.*

Listen to the pro's and those that really know, start learning to weigh opinions and think for yourself and figure things out.

*Pros? Since when does being gay or bi make you a "pro." The last time I checked, you didn't get paid for it.*

start learning to weigh opinions and think for yourself and figure things out.

back up, take your advice......Oregon, you can't show me where I have enforced any such opinion. It's been COMPLETELY fabricated more than once now.

This is getting ridiculous....and I'm betting that while I post this, there are a few more ENDEARING replies coming my way......

Yes, think for yourself, rather than responding to other friends responses that were accusingly way off base.

1. 1the act of deluding *:* the state of being deluded
2 a. 2 *asomething that is falsely or delusively believed or propagatedb*. ba persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained *despite indisputable evidence to the contrary*_lso_the abnormal state marked by such beliefs
I had no need to look it up Oregon. Maybe you and others do.


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> YOU SEE "THEM" TOO! OMG!!! HA HA HA HA! I'm a god! I have billions of fungi and bacteria in my organic soil. I use other types of fungi and bacteria to control "PESTS" that I do not want in my environment. The BILLIONS of organisms have no evidence that I exist. They are not aware of my presence at all. I could shout BOOO! It won't scare them. If the fungi against my roots multiply too quickly, I destroy them by the millions using predatory organisms. I control what lives, what dies, and what thrives...If you agree that I am a GOD, I will agree that there may be another life form controlling our universe, perhaps one that WE ARE NOT AWARE OF YET...


 Don't waste your time shouting BOO, just throw some sand on top of that soil for starters.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 8, 2010)

Well, if we're going to be posting definitions, then they ought to be complete. After all, we're asserting that words actually mean something.

*deluded*

*1:* to mislead the mind or judgment of: deceive, trick
*2* _obsolete_ *a:* frustrate, disappoint *b:* evade, elude

*synonyms* see DECEIVE


*delusional*

*1:* the act of deluding: the state of being deluded
*2* *a:* something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated *b:* a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary; _also_: the abnormal state marked by such beliefs

*synonyms* DELUSION, ILLUSION, HALLUCINATION, MIRAGE mean something that is believed to be true or real but that is actually false or unreal.
DELUSION implies an inability to distinguish between what is real and what only seems to be real, often as the result of a disordered state of mind <delusions of persecution>. ILLUSION implies a false ascribing of reality based on what one sees or imagines <an illusion of safety>. HALLUCINATION implies impressions that are the product of disordered senses, as because of mental illness or drugs <suffered from terrifying hallucinations>. MIRAGE in its extended sense applies to an illusory vision, dream, hope, or aim <claimed a balanced budget is a mirage>.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 8, 2010)

Okay, babs... I'll bite. If you don't adhere to any religion, how do you come up with your strong beliefs? Just make them up?


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Nice sympathy play there, Babs.
> 
> I told you who you are Kat? Really? Where? If you look back on these posts where it is you who initially posted "to me"..it is crystal clear that it is "you" telling me who I am.
> Let's see... I suggested you lived a sheltered life as you've "only" heard the word "cunt" come from a gay man's mouth, and I said you must really have a problem with gays (actually, I believe I said something to the effect of "lifestyles outside of the societal norm") to make the statements you made; those are difficult to refute as you posted those statements here, in black and white. You, on the other hand, proceeded to tell me the "facts" about myself based on your opinion about sexuality, about which you are *absolutely wrong*. Such as...
> ...


Yeah, you're right... you never once told me who/what I am. Just the "facts" eh? 
I* sure didn't Kat, you just read into things to suit whatever it is that is making you angry. There really ARE people in REAL life Kat who have had sexual encounters not within their propensities. Had I used that word, would it have changed your demeanor, because right now you are hell on wheels and I haven't even made the first attempt to say one damn thing about you personally......this is REEEEEEEEEEDICULOUS*.


 OK, I've hung out with far too many gay men for you to state I "obviously know nothing."
I wasn't talking about gays. I was talking about bisexuality, *BUT I WAS RESPONDING TO A COMMENT MADE TO MORGEN. THE TOPIC WAS NOT BISEXUALITY.....I WAS WAY TOOOO TIRED TO ANALYZE YOU. Now, this IS an IRREFUTABLE FACT......THAT POST HAD NOTHINGGGGGGGGGG TO DO WITH YOU, DEAL WITH IT)*as a part of what is known as the GLBT Community. More to the point, I freely gave myself as an example... mind you, in the attempt to explain to you the whole "en vogue" concept you falsely have about "most" people "trying on homosexuality" nowadays. (Your words, Babs, not mine.) You see, I'm able to grasp the difference between "homosexual" and "bisexual" whereas apparently you don't. More to the point, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of one, which I am and told you so, yet you still insist that I'm wrong about myself (after all, the "fact" is that I'm "either/or" and anything else is "just" PLAY... ring any bells?).
*Oh boy, let's try on some FACTS for size Kat. You sought me out to fight..for what reason, don't know.....you certainly give me no reason to care to know. If a person even offers me a tiny ounce of respect, I will give them at least twice that respect back. Take off your blinders and realize that by my stating to Morgen at one time that there is such a thing as en vogue or "supposed" homosexuality (maybe that word would have suited you better) At this point, I think you are just bound and determined to fight....about something NON-EXISTENT. You took off with that one liner like a bat out of hell.*
More to the point, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of one, which I am and told you so, *yet you still insist that I'm wrong about myself (after all, the "fact" is that I'm "either/or" and anything else is "just" PLAY... ring any bells?).KEYWORDS: PROPENSITY AND PREFERENCES.....WE ALL HAVE THEM. Dear God, I have a feeling I will have to repeat this several times over too. MY FRIEND I am referring to you IS NOT YOU and was in NO way even remotely used to direct anything whatsoever towards your sexuality.*
*I'm seriously tripping on you and your speech here, all of it. Where did I insist upon ANY thing about you up until now? You can't show that. It does not exist.*
*REMINDER: I WAS ON MY WAY TO BED. MY RESPONSE WAS TO MYYYYYYYYYY INITIAL RESPONSE------"TO" MORGEN, AND from ANOTHER THREAD. That served as an invitation for you to waste my time responding to these ridiculous accusations?*
*I said nothing to apologize or be harangued over, and definitely, without question....NOTHING I SAID SERVED AS AN INVITATION FOR YOU TO FABRICATE MY BELIEFS. LOL, I still have yet to give them. You are all too busy summing me up before the fact......SO hypocritical from those who are concerned with Christians attempt to deny you your legal "rights." I've seen some serious judgments taught via the church, but NOT ANYTHING CAN COMPARE TO the OBNOXIOUS AND NON-EXISTENT " factual judgements" from you and other proclaimed atheists on this thread. I'm happy to say you're(as in atheists) not all like that. I got off the gay topic for a second there Kat......I guess I have to spell it out for you so as to not be accused of somehow "gay bashing."*




*Sympathy play? HAHAHAHA*
*Wrong Kat. The "sad" face was not to serve as I was tearful and immensely wounded by your so negatively responding to me right from the beginning. It is just sad, as in really pathetic.*
*I sit back and either ignore or overlook with almost every IMMATURE response from a few. No matter how many times I am willing to ignore the ignorance, it shines forth over and over, but this really takes the cake. You MISREAD and you very obviously internalized something that just DID NOT EVEN EXIST TO BEGIN WITH.*




I repeat: you obviously know nothing about what you're spouting.



 ...and I never accused you of calling any one a name or referencing to Morgen's "substance".. YES, please do re-read
And I never accused you of accusing me of calling anyone a name or referencing Morgen's "substance" either.
I really don't know where you got that from my above statement.
**sigh** From your posts.
*I was referencing to HIM and YOU used it as an opportunity to jump in to the conversation....*
It's a public forum discussion, to which I chose to add my points for clarification.
just to harangue me, I might add. 
*.HINT: FOOD FOR THOUGHT*-Yes Babs, that's exactly what I did, exactly what I always do... go around "abusing" others just to "harangue" them. It's my M.O., dontcha know.  Do you play Victim IRL Babs, or do you reserve this just for the Internetz?
*You so completely misread. *
No, that would be you. Consistently, it appears.
*This is why I have skipped out on reading any posts on this thread for awhile now. So many of you have already formed your opinion COMPLETELY about those of us who believe in God and WHAT it is we believe.*
And you don't ever form your opinion about those who don't believe in a god. Now I see you form your own opinion about homosexuals and bisexuals as well, put the label "fact" on your opinions, and then expect others to just nod emphatically... when they are what you claim does not exist.
One can only bang their head against the wall so many times before waking up and smelling the coffee. 
Kind of like how I've continued to give you the benefit of doubt, in spite of your outbursts and constant jabs at those who dare to contradict anything you say? Yeah, I'm done with that wall. My head hurts.
*There are no "discussions" on this thread. *
No discussions that are to your liking, at any rate. *HINT:* This is a thread about atheism, yet you feel the desire or need or right (or whatever the hell it is) to repeatedly post in here with smug little remarks and (poorly) "veiled" insults.
Never once have I witnessed any proclaimed Christian chime in so they could proselytize. 
*(*Never once have you witnessed me rush into threads about Christianity just so I can tell the Christians how wrong they are, and make stupid little jabs at them any opportunity I get.*)*
Every last time a fellow believer dared to post, they were jumped on like prey from others. Please, there are no discussions on this thread....just attacks already formed because of pre-judgment.
Oh, please! Your role of Victim is a willing one when, again, *you come into a thread about atheism in the first place.*
Questions are posed to a believer, but an honest answer is not what is sought on this thread, as has been evident.
*Honesty is all we've sought in this thread*, *from ourselves* and from anyone else who "dares" to post.
It's really getting old watching the "come-back" from the atheist to demand that a believer prove God.....otherwise they are "stupid."
It's really getting old watching the "come back" from the believer to demand that an atheist prove there is no god... otherwise they are "stupid"... oh, and "damned" as well.
That was solely my response to how confusing I found it that you were breaking apart my every sentence in defense mode....no need to be that way with me. 
You broke apart my existence. But there's no need for me to "be that way" (defend myself and who/what I am) with you, eh? 

There is no desire on my part to bash gay people...NONE. Why you are attempting to note me as homophobic is ridiculously laughable. Again, you are telling me who I am, not vice verca.
Refer to my response above RE: who's telling whom who/what they are. According to you, I don't even exist.

You state that you "were having a discussion." A discussion entails asking questions when in doubt, not just emphatically and falsely accusing others of their beliefs. 
Did you do this for me, or did you simply tell me that I can't be bisexual, because, after all, the "fact" is that a person is "either/or" (gay or straight) but no in between, because that is "just PLAY."

Sorry if as I stated "verbatim" that I feel there is always a preference offended you...sheesh.
"Always" being the key word. "Fact" being another key word. "Truth" as well. *All* stated by you to me, about me. But no offense should be taken, huh Babs? SHEESH.

I did listen....or rather read. 
*Apparently not. You seem to "read" what words you want to be there.*
Again, I don't know why you find it so offensive that you feel this need to put me on a stand. AGAIN, I told you that you were "wrong"...about what? You lost me Kat.
You're the one who's lost. 
I told you positively nothing about *yourself.* Why are you getting so defensive with me?
**sigh** 

Kat, there was not a single second of my posting last night where I was being stubborn. 
 Sure Babs, sure. You're right, I'm wrong, end of story. Happy now? 
In fact, one of the first things I said was that it was later for me than you. I was on my way to bed. 
And I said in my first post of this particular discussion that I was tired at the end of a long Sunday day/evening, hence the probable rambling, etc. Your point?
I promise you the last thing on my mind was telling you who you are or ANALYZING you 
I call bullshit.
..the Dr. Babs comment, along with some other choice words you threw out were just outlandish...and so very uncalled for. I wish you would see that. 
I reserved myself from using choice words I truly felt and thought about your entire display of ignorance and stubbornness. Trust me on that.

When in doubt, ask me. 
*In other words, give to you what you refuse to give to others.*

Had I known in advance that by my merely posting was going to create such havoc, I'd of gone to bed earlier........dayum.
Break out the violin, everyone!  Are you a reincarnation of Mozart, per chance?

Sorry.....I can't tell you if you're gay or straight. I don't have enough information to guide you there.
I spoon fed you the fucking information!  My request for a diagnonsense from you was sheer sarcasm. Look it up.

That was just low Kat. I reserve that kind of response from cj.
Ah yes, the Demonic CJ... who's been kinder to me than probably anyone else on RIU, though I've never once asked for his kindness. And just a little FYI, no, he and I do not agree on everything; maybe half of our beliefs/positions are the same. I simply don't go making shots below the belt when I don't agree with him; probably why he's never been rude to me. You should try straight shooting sometime, Babs. You may find that you are better received.
There was no "discussion"....just one accusation after another from you.
*Oh.My.God.*

"Ignorance" is defined by the beholder who portrays themself as knowing something to be absolute truth.....
Such as using "fact" and "truth" and "either/or" in your statements about the honesty others freely give about their personal lives in order to help someone like you understand something instead of spouting "facts" pulled out of your ass?
that being said, every last one of us posting here is ignorant in that case.
Some are more ignorant than others. Willfully, might I add.

*Post 1, 938---I thought to correct that but really fail to see the significant factor in changing that typo)....I do not pretend to understand any single thing in all its complexities.* 
Actually, it was post 1,937. And if you don't pretend, then you must be "playing for reelz" because you sure as hell "understand" that I am "either/or" but can't be in the middle... that's all just PLAY, after all.


Now, as I preview this mess, I see that you've distracted me from the fun I could have been having on this forum I've so come to love. You've taken up quite enough of my time. More than enough.

*One more little FYI:* Your belief in God has absolutely nothing to do with how infuriating you are. Rather, it's your smug attitude that gets people so damn frustrated. You make your assumptions about others based on your opinions stated as facts, with nothing to back up your facts aside from your uninformed opinions, then wonder why everyone's "haranguing" you. Cry me a goddamn river. 


*To everyone else:* I genuinely apologize for the dramatic disruption. I make no excuses. However, the *fact* is that some people simply bring out the worst in others.
[/QUOTE]
*Someone sure did take an awful lot of time to respond here and from merely glancing at it, it sure wasn't to say they could have possilbly misconstrued that my having spoken about MY FRIEND not being a lesbian, NOR bi was in no way an analogy of you Kat. But I can see from having glanced over very briefly that you are adamantly determined to attack for NOT A SINGLE REASON IN THE WORLD:::::::huge eyeroll::::::::*

*Sympathy for what Kat? No call for sympathy, just goes to show how determined you are to fight me though....which is why rather than reading more than once, I will instead reply as I go.*
Kind of like how I've continued to give you the benefit of doubt, in spite of your outbursts and *constant jabs at those who dare to contradict anything you say?* Yeah, I'm done with that wall. My head hurts.
*That's not me defined Kat, hello ...do wake up and smell the coffee. That's been your buddies to the tee---you're banging your head on another non-existent wall you without reason just toss up as grandiose evidence but can NOT back up with PROOF. Wow, LOOOL, I am beginning to sound like some of you! HAHAHAHA*

*I haven't afforded any of you the right to give me headaches, so the response to just about any thing I've ever posted here is "ur stupid." Impressive! And than when that doesn't provoke the response you desire, resort to backing up delusion with COMPLETE fabrication. ::eyeroll::*

No discussions that are to your liking, at any rate. *HINT:* *This is a thread about atheism, yet you feel the desire or need or right (or whatever the hell it is) to repeatedly post in here with smug little remarks and (poorly) "veiled" insults.*
*And it gets even RICHER, HAHAHAHA. Kat, ask P and Morgen how I ended up even being acquainted with either? Are you ready? It was on a spirituality thread discussing GOD. "That" thread was not an atheist thread and I was not posting on it to seek arguments. It was however being used by atheists to do just that...no big surprise.*
*The smug little remarks are always prompted by cj or morgen Kat....it's all in this thread alone in black and white.*

*As I said earlier, I give back what I receive and had either of them given me an ounce of respect, I would have returned to them in kind.*
*It's all in black and white. I offer no apologies for responding to their smug remarks.....look at what started YOU on a whirlwind here----morgen doing precisely what you accuse me of.*
*eyeroll:: so much for that argument too.*

*I never accused you of this either. Why so bitter?*
Never once have you witnessed me rush into threads about Christianity just so I can tell the Christians how wrong they are, and make stupid little jabs at them any opportunity I get.

Oh, please! Your role of Victim is a willing one when, again, you come into a thread about atheism in the first place.
*See above.*
Honesty is all we've sought in this thread, from ourselves and from anyone else who "dares" to post.
*Were that so Kat, you wouldn't have gone off on such extremes that never even existed to begin with and at minium, verified this "supposed willful ignorance" on "my part" and asked me what I thought rather than spell it out for me and accuse me of telling you what you think.....I'm still tripping that you have SOOOOOOOOO COMPLETELY MISREAD.....oh well.*
It's really getting old watching the "come back" from the believer to demand that an atheist prove there is no god... otherwise they are "stupid"... oh, and "damned" as well.
*Yup, that's me too Kat...nutty Christian damning you non-believers to hell.....oh brother, my eyes are beginning to hurt from the rolls.*
*So that's fair game for the atheist to demand proof, but not the believer?...another no big surprise.*

You broke apart my existence. But there's no need for me to "be that way" (defend myself and who/what I am) with you, eh? 
*How does an account of my friend from youth have a damned thing to do with you? THINK ABOUT IT.*
*One LAST time, as repeating around here has surpassed exceedingly redundant--*
*My last post before you decided to break apart and so completely misread didn't have ANY THING to do with what you posted, but EVERYTHING to do with MY response TO Morgen.......*
*I just can't believe how much you have twisted that. Your sexual preference was the furthest thing from my mind in that post.*

*A mere reference to it happening and all of that bogus adlib is nothing short of willfull judgemental behavior on YOUR part Kat, not mine.*

*If you are going to accuse me of things that just aren't so, at least do so WITH MERIT.*
Ah yes, the Demonic CJ... who's been kinder to me than probably anyone else on RIU, though I've never once asked for his kindness. And just a little FYI, no, he and I do not agree on everything; maybe half of our beliefs/positions are the same. *I simply don't go making shots below the belt when I don't agree with him; probably why he's never been rude to me.* You should try straight shooting sometime, Babs. You may find that you are better received.
*Yo Kat.....I remember exactly what thread CJ even began posting to me. Maybe I should look for it?.....Just to show you how every last one of those posts show you are in agreeance with me.....surprise, surprise. CJ loves to visit spiritual threads too, to mock their beliefs, call names, and thus exhibit his intellectual superiority...no, let me rephrase, "grace upon us" his intellectual superiority.* 

*You and CJ both Kat are now officially guilty of this. I expected it from him, not you. Every post from CJ to me from first to last has been a play on calling me stupid just because I'm not an intelligent atheist like himself. *

*Save the violin. I never asked for it.*
*Asking questions to clarify your accusations would have helped.*

*I didn't realize just how much you had been sitting back resenting me for my "behavior."*
*You really just have no idea how much you have overplayed your assumptions..exactly what they are, nothing less than.*

*Because CJ is respectful towards you does not make it the case with me. His very posts from the first to now to me have been to mock me for believing in God and he hasn't stopped since. *


*Before you reamed me for shit, you first reamed your buddy(ies).*
Never once have you witnessed me rush into threads about Christianity just so I can tell the Christians how wrong they are, and make stupid little jabs at them any opportunity I get.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 8, 2010)

Sand! Sand particles are too large to carry electrical charges...Let's stick to philosophy.

If you want to believe in god then do. Just keep your mind open to the possibility that it may not be what you expect. This is a fair point, no?

I'm usually too lit and never bored enough to argue too much. "EEW, I wasn't looking the WHOLE time" - GOD


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## afrawfraw (Mar 8, 2010)

OH! And for the record, we're all full of shit. No one knows how this fuckfest started, and no one knows how it ends. But we can speculate to make ourselves feel better...I'm not down on religions. They can be abused like anything else that's powerful, but can have positive influences as well. Being an Atheist is no walk in the park. TALK ME DOWN MAN!!! TALK ME DOWN!!!


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## Babs34 (Mar 8, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Well, if we're going to be posting definitions, then they ought to be complete. After all, we're asserting that words actually mean something.
> 
> *deluded*
> 
> ...


 Sing it girl.
Take a breath...enough.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't *care* that you first discussed homosexuality with Morgen, and not me. If you don't want others "jumping in" on your conversations, then don't have them on public boards. That simple. However, that's what you did, and I responded with an explanation of my life in the hopes of just possibly helping you to see that not all people who aren't 100% gay or straight aren't necessarily "trying on" homosexuality, or however the hell you're choosing to rephrase it now. You *did* immediately tell me that you appreciate my honesty about *my* "excursions" but that there is "either/or" and the "fact" is that there is "always" a preference: either gay or straight, but not bisexual. This was right before you brought up your friend who "wasn't" bisexual (though she hit on you, a woman; go figure). I'm not stupid, I have excellent reading comprehension, and I know exactly what you said. Interesting that I (and others) can see the timeline, yet you can't seem to recall what you said and when; never mind that it's still right there.

Whatever, Babs. I don't care. If you so desperately need to be "right" in this, then so be it... you're right, I'm wrong, I reamed you for no reason, and I'm just plain delusional. You're a really, really swell gal who hasn't deserved a single derogatory remark from anyone, ever. You've never gone Histrionic on anyone, you don't say one thing then play Victim when you're called on your statements, and you certainly don't try to rewrite recent history such as your posts that are still there for everyone to see. Everyone just has it out for you, with no reason and no provocation.

Happy?

I told you "enough" hours ago, dear. I said I'd had "more than enough" of you, to be precise. Keep proclaiming your innocence. Continued repetition will ensure that you'll be able to believe it, if no one else.

Now, where is that "ignore" feature again?


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## OregonMeds (Mar 9, 2010)

Let me point out what you said that is completely offensive, MASSIVELY ignorant, and TOTALLY wrong:



Originally Posted by *Babs34*  
_Wowza....too entirely much to digest for my being on this clock.....it's earlier for you.
Personally, I DO find "cunt" to hold a bit more derrogartory value...simply "because" it has only been heard "by" a gay man.
"Naturally" MOST have at least one or another issue with their mother/father........but BET on it, there IS a pattern like no other in the male/female role in parenthood when acknowledging a TRUE homosexual. A gay man is almost ALWAYS overly protected by his mother or has an EXTREMELY domineering mother, and either an entirely absent father or role model that exhibits absence in one way or another.

DUMB DUMB DUMB

Look Kat, I appreciate your honesty here with your excursions............but truth is truth. You just ARE one or the other. When it comes to preferences, you are "either or." Bisexuality falls into play of just "playing." 

JUST WOW...



There IS such a thing as peference.
I've never been afraid to admit that I find the woman's body beautiful......but I haven't the inate capacity to go down on one,.......it's just not me.
I love men.




.....for their bodies. It just so happens that nine out of ten times, their minds ROYALLY SUCK.
"However"....because I can share this heartfelt feeling with other females does not necessiate a need to have sex with them.
LOL, I have stories galore......just one tiny example----one of my best friends growing up. I used to take this girl and throw her over my shoulder at high school parties because guys would FUCK her WHILE SHE WAS PASSED OUT!!!!!!!!!!!! How could I feel good about going home semi-sober knowing she was being raped??????? I did this for 2 out of her 4 HS years.
You know how she thanked me? HAHAHHHA, I'm sorry, it's funny "now." I moved in with her at the age of 21, after having not been around her for YEARS. It turned out she was the "same ole, same ole".........in short, she was simply a slut.
The phone rang off the hook...whenver she wasn't there (she randomly gave her phone number out to EVERY GUY SHE MET).........SO, whenever she wasn't passing out an invitation to screw her, she was coming on to me!!!





She was NOT a lesbian, just a lost fucking soul in search of SOMEthing, ANYthing that would bring her gratification in one way or another. It was VERY sad.
I guarantee you though.........that girl was no lesbian and had she not been brought up in such a fucked up environment, she would have never had a single encounter with another female.
My take is that you are either inately attracted to either your own or the opposite sex.........anything else is just PLAY.






COME ON, READ WHAT YOU WROTE SLOWLY AND THINK. Your little experience with a confused teen isn't really relevant and gives you zero insight into the truth. This is just one example of how you lock your brain down, hold your flimsy opinion over the truth, and aren't learning shit.
period. 
We aren't playing around, it's how we are and how you are raised has nothing to do with it. Daddy didn't molest me etc, mommy didn't turn me this way, and we are not confused about any of it. Silliness.


_


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## shnkrmn (Mar 9, 2010)

_COME ON, READ WHAT YOU WROTE SLOWLY AND THINK. Your little experience with a confused teen isn't really relevant and gives you zero insight into the truth. This is just one example of how you lock your brain down, hold your flimsy opinion over the truth, and aren't learning shit.
period. 
We aren't playing around, it's how we are and how you are raised has nothing to do with it. Daddy didn't molest me etc, mommy didn't turn me this way, and we are not confused about any of it. Silliness.


_


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## Babs34 (Mar 9, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> I don't *care* that you first discussed homosexuality with Morgen, and not me. If you don't want others "jumping in" on your conversations, then don't have them on public boards. That simple. However, that's what you did, and I responded with an explanation of my life in the hopes of just possibly helping you to see that not all people who aren't 100% gay or straight aren't necessarily "trying on" homosexuality, or however the hell you're choosing to rephrase it now. You *did* immediately tell me that you appreciate my honesty about *my* "excursions" but that there is "either/or" and the "fact" is that there is "always" a preference: either gay or straight, but not bisexual. This was right before you brought up your friend who "wasn't" bisexual (though she hit on you, a woman; go figure). I'm not stupid, I have excellent reading comprehension, and I know exactly what you said. Interesting that I (and others) can see the timeline, yet you can't seem to recall what you said and when; never mind that it's still right there.
> 
> Whatever, Babs. I don't care. If you so desperately need to be "right" in this, then so be it... you're right, I'm wrong, I reamed you for no reason, and I'm just plain delusional. You're a really, really swell gal who hasn't deserved a single derogatory remark from anyone, ever. You've never gone Histrionic on anyone, you don't say one thing then play Victim when you're called on your statements, and you certainly don't try to rewrite recent history such as your posts that are still there for everyone to see. Everyone just has it out for you, with no reason and no provocation.
> 
> ...



...in your mind.


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## Babs34 (Mar 9, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> _COME ON, READ WHAT YOU WROTE SLOWLY AND THINK. Your little experience with a confused teen isn't really relevant and gives you zero insight into the truth. This is just one example of how you lock your brain down, hold your flimsy opinion over the truth, and aren't learning shit._
> _period. _
> _We aren't playing around, it's how we are and how you are raised has nothing to do with it. Daddy didn't molest me etc, mommy didn't turn me this way, and we are not confused about any of it. Silliness._


 *I'd like to clarify-it is not "my" little experience with a teen. It was my friend.*

*I'll be fair and tell you that you are understandably not following that my response was ENTIRELY relevant. You can't see that because you did not follow this other said thread, ok?*

*.....no flimsy opinion.........*
*My friend was not a lesbian, nor was she bi. Does that truly seem impossible to you?*

*In any event, it is just the way it is. She had less self-esteem than just about any I have encountered. *

*No need to be defensive. *

*LOL, HAHAHAHA.....if I had just known there were so many gay/bi sexual people posting on this thread, I would HAVE been SO much more careful with my response.*

*But as chance had it, I was falling asleep and my response TO Morgen (AGAIN, in response to ANOTHER THREAD/ANOTHER TOPIC) would be utilized to show my "supposed" lack of understanding.*

*Please save the "it has nothing to do with Daddy molested me, etc."*
*It is SO not necessary. My father didn't molest my brother either.*

*Save those comments for a homophobic. This really is SILLY.*


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

Okay, babs... I'll bite. If you don't adhere to any religion, how do you come up with your strong beliefs? Just make them up?
==================================================================

Still waiting for an answer.


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## morgentaler (Mar 9, 2010)

> Originally Posted by Babs34
> Look Kat, I appreciate your honesty here with your excursions............but truth is truth. You just ARE one or the other. When it comes to preferences, you are "either or." Bisexuality falls into play of just "playing." There IS such a thing as peference.


See, this is why I used the word cunt. Because it would stand out compared to the word bitch, which I'm sure has been used many, many times. Both are just words, but if I had called her a bitch it probably would have rolled off her too easily.


On what basis does Babs make her claim? Certainly not based on any ethology. Homosexual and bisexual behavior exists widely in the animal kingdom. For some species it's an element of social hierarchy, while in others it's pair bonding. 

But then that commentary is just as blindly ignorant as the previous call to bring prayer and religion back into school.
"Freedom of religion, as long as it's Christianity!" is the call sign of the theocrats. See how quickly they change their tunes if the morning prayer is Jewish, Islamic, Vodoun, etc.

Everyone has a worldview. For some it just stops at the tip of the nose.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

To be religious is to be egotistical, self centered.

To be Christian or Muslim is to be a cultist. Then the ego really takes off. Critical "mass" of delusion is achieved, and the world suffers for it.


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## Babs34 (Mar 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Okay, babs... I'll bite. If you don't adhere to any religion, how do you come up with your strong beliefs? Just make them up?
> ==================================================================
> 
> Still waiting for an answer.


 *CJ, you are waiting for me to bite. You are preparing for a feast...I'm done with the games.*


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## morgentaler (Mar 9, 2010)

A religion is just a cult that has survived long enough to have a schism.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *CJ, you are waiting for me to bite. You are preparing for a feast...I'm done with the games.*


Translation: You won't/can't answer my SIMPLE question.

C'mon...ur good at simple.

Answer me.... by the powah of Greyskull.... I command thee.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> See, this is why I used the word cunt. Because it would stand out compared to the word bitch, which I'm sure has been used many, many times. Both are just words, but if I had called her a bitch it probably would have rolled off her too easily.
> 
> 
> On what basis does Babs make her claim? Certainly not based on any ethology. Homosexual and bisexual behavior exists widely in the animal kingdom. For some species it's an element of social hierarchy, while in others it's pair bonding.


And with others it's just playing... ya bitch. 



> But then that commentary is just as blindly ignorant as the previous call to bring prayer and religion back into school.
> "Freedom of religion, as long as it's Christianity!" is the call sign of the theocrats. See how quickly they change their tunes if the morning prayer is Jewish, Islamic, Vodoun, etc.
> 
> Everyone has a worldview. For some it just stops at the tip of the nose.


I demand that sacred altars be erected, and magickal circles be cast in each classroom first thing every morning!


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## Babs34 (Mar 9, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> See, this is why I used the word cunt. Because it would stand out compared to the word bitch, which I'm sure has been used many, many times. Both are just words, but if I had called her a bitch it probably would have rolled off her too easily.
> 
> 
> On what basis does Babs make her claim? Certainly not based on any ethology. Homosexual and bisexual behavior exists widely in the animal kingdom. For some species it's an element of social hierarchy, while in others it's pair bonding.
> ...


*[email protected] hiding in the shadows! You started all this bullshit, LOOOL.*

See, this is why I used the word cunt. Because it would stand out compared to the word bitch,* which I'm sure has been used many, many times*. Both are just words, but if I had called her a bitch it probably would have rolled off her too easily.
*Off with the assumptions again--*
*Granted, use of the word bitch is common, but not within my social structure. Uh oh, bad choice of words.  Let me put it this way. There is only one man who has really called me a bitch (any other possibility doesn't stand out....feasibly it may have occurred at some other point in my life)*
* This particular man has SERIOUS issues with women...AND HE IS STRAIGHT, no question about that.*
*There is not a single woman he has not referred to as either a bitch, a whore or as a slut, which most often are so entirely used out of context.*
*I don't make it habit to surround myself with people who so freely and randomly misuse the word....a female dog I am not. Now, can I fork out some shit? HELL YES......and a LOL. Some of you get so intense.*

*You're right. It would have rolled off my back had you called me any of those.*
*A whore?.....never been paid for sex.*
*A slut?...Pffffffft, I'm a newfound virgin, years over now. ....by choice.*

*But now a cunt? Let's grasp also that I am definitely not a pussy, a vagina.....just as when a woman says "you are a dick"...a man is not technically not his penis. ::cough:...but that's another topic altogether.*

*The reason I find it so offensive and "because I've only heard it from a gay man's mouth" is because it sent chills down my spine!!!! *
*Ask me why.....(or just go out on a whim and create false scenarios)*
*The FIRST time I heard that word was from my brother calling my mother a cunt! When those words came from his mouth---it was worse than sitting in a theater watching the scarriest horror movie. It was indescribably intense! His voice SHRILLLLLLLLLED like NO OTHER.*
*NEVER in my life had I witnessed such HATRED. I've witnessed couples fight......I don't find it so abnormal for a couple to refer to one another as being a bitch, asshole on a rare occassion. *
*But I would find it questionable if this were just normal speech between the two.*

*Since that time, I have only witnessed it from a couple of other gay men...same affect. That's a scary display..........a site not to behold.*

*So, yes......you caught my attention Morgen. *

"Freedom of religion, as long as it's Christianity!" 
*Redundancy abounds here.....nope.*
*Freedom of religion--so long as it hurts no one.*
*Morgen, provided my initial instinct is correct that you are a homosexual--you never answered me, but instead called me a cunt---*
*Do realize that if you lived in any of these muslim countries, you and all professed homosexual/bisexual or really otherwise "sexual" acknowldegements would have you put to death!!!*
*Get with the century...Christians are not going to have you put to death. At worst, they are going to attempt to change you and in the process annoy you to death.*

* I'm not pushing for prayer in schools or to teach other parents children my personal view on who God may be. But at the same token, every parent has the right to instill their values upon their children....they are extensions of themself.*
*You have a habit of taking EXTREME examples of how religion, in general, is child abuse. You, as habit, have made it hobby to bash Christianity as null and void in any possible aspect of what is held as purely innocent and even possibly capable of adding substance to ones own existence. Is that what you are griping about now? Offered substance? This works more than just one way.*

*You wish to define sexuality leaning unto ONLY your own understanding..works both ways. I don't need to actually be a homosexual or a bi-sexual to "get it." *
*I see past so many things you would never accredit me for, but would instead conveniently ignore.*

*Now, I ask you this because I don't wish to rehash the topic of you calling me a cunt --*
*You don't think it is possible, that it doesn't happen? Can you not feasibly even acknoledge that people do perform homosexual acts, without the inate desire?*


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> To be religious is to be egotistical, self centered.
> 
> To be Christian or Muslim is to be a cultist. Then the ego really takes off. Critical "mass" of delusion is achieved, and the world suffers for it.


 *This world will suffer for having varied opinions...period.*
*This simple thread does not serve as evidence of that?*
*One need not be religous, or even believe in God to be egotistical and self-centered.*


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## Babs34 (Mar 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Translation: You won't/can't answer my SIMPLE question.
> 
> C'mon...ur good at simple.
> 
> Answer me.... by the powah of Greyskull.... I command thee.


 Simplicity is your forte .......masta.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 9, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *CJ, you are waiting for me to bite. You are preparing for a feast...I'm done with the games.*


Classic Babsian dodge. Kind of like: *"Wowza....too entirely much to digest for my being on this clock.....it's earlier for you."*

Or my favorite: *"Ack, I can't get in depth with this today...life is short and debating and arguing for what purpose life exists is a waste of precious time."*

Which really kind of leaves you without any reason for being in this thread. We are necessarily debating and arguing for what purpose life exists. If that is a waste of precious time, then what activity is more valuable?????? Why even log on to RIU????


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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

Heh, she insists on posting but can't actually defend what she posts.

What were those definitions again...?

I asked a simple question Babs to a comment YOU made.

Can't answer it because.... ur lost. You confound yourself.


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## Babs34 (Mar 9, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Classic Babsian dodge. Kind of like: *"Wowza....too entirely much to digest for my being on this clock.....it's earlier for you."*
> 
> Or my favorite: *"Ack, I can't get in depth with this today...life is short and debating and arguing for what purpose life exists is a waste of precious time."*
> 
> Which really kind of leaves you without any reason for being in this thread. We are necessarily debating and arguing for what purpose life exists. If that is a waste of precious time, then what activity is more valuable?????? Why even log on to RIU????


 You guys are too much. 
Discussing is not the same as childish name calling back and forth and assuming a stance taken for the purpose of discord......as Morgen posed it, SCHISM.


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## Babs34 (Mar 9, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Heh, she insists on posting but can't actually defend what she posts.
> 
> What were those definitions again...?
> 
> ...


I don't answer because you are not interested in my answer.

Speaking of confounding oneself, I have a life. Thanks for reminding me!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....LATA


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## Babs34 (Mar 9, 2010)

babs34 said:


> i don't answer because you are not interested in my answer.
> 
> Speaking of confounding oneself, i have a life. Thanks for reminding me!
> Hahahahahahaha.....lata


CJ, plus rep for that~~~that's my first proclaimed rep in riu land!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha


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## morgentaler (Mar 9, 2010)

Well this is interesting. I can find no trace of the posts where Babs and (I think) Roseman were both saying that America has been ruined by taking prayer out of school.

But I repeat the statement. If the kids went to school tomorrow and were asked to pray to Allah or Odin, how loud would the shrieks be from the Christian parents.


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## morgentaler (Mar 9, 2010)

Apparently because I believe gay rights I'm probably a gay man.
Since I believe in the rights of transgender people I must be transgender.
And since I believe that the sun is a ball of hydrogen gas engaged in a prolonged nuclear reaction, I must be a ball of hydrogen gas engaged in a prolonged nuclear reaction. Now how can I use that to power my car.


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## morgentaler (Mar 9, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> plus rep for that~~~that's my first proclaimed rep in riu land!


Someone gave you rep for leaving?
I can totally see that.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 9, 2010)

I tried to but apparently I'd repped her recently for some other memorable post. Ah well.

She has a life you know.


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## growwwww (Mar 9, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> You guys are too much.
> Discussing is not the same as childish name calling back and forth and assuming a stance taken for the purpose of discord......as Morgen posed it, SCHISM.


To be honest u are just giving the most back and forth arguments its irratating reading it 

peace


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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

I have a checkmate.

Of course....


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Someone gave you rep for leaving?
> I can totally see that.





shnkrmn said:


> I tried to but apparently I'd repped her recently for some other memorable post. Ah well.
> 
> She has a life you know.


That's funny right there... I don't care who you are!


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 9, 2010)

I like the word cunt.


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## OregonMeds (Mar 9, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *I'd like to clarify-it is not "my" little experience with a teen. It was my friend.*
> 
> *I'll be fair and tell you that you are understandably not following that my response was ENTIRELY relevant. You can't see that because you did not follow this other said thread, ok?*
> 
> ...


Ignorance and homophobia are so closely related and so equally dangerous to us all and our future that you'll have to excuse me if it's hard to tell the difference from this side.

It was your words that caused the problem regardless of if you had malice behind it the end result is identical.

It's not about mine or anyone elses sensitivity on the subject, only your own insensitivity and thougtlessness. I just had to call you on it because you earned it. Also I do believe you can probably see the error in your thinking here and maybe that will translate to opening your mind that you are also just as wrong and stubborn in your opinions on everything else you and the rest of us don't agree on.

You look at everything from too narrow a view and don't seem to think outside yourself or at a minimum because of many things you say you come across quite thoughtless.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Ignorance and homophobia are so closely related and so equally dangerous to us all and our future that you'll have to excuse me if it's hard to tell the difference from this side.
> 
> It was your words that caused the problem regardless of if you had malice behind it the end result is identical.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. 



Stoney McFried said:


> I like the word cunt.


*Taboo For Who?*

_Swearing is becoming more accepted in our society, but many people still consider cunt taboo. Why is this? Its time we got over such silly squeamishness, Kate Allen argues._

Most women accept that they have a cunt. As a descriptive word, it is becoming re-established, echoing its origins as the proper term for ladys bits in Old and Middle England. It first appeared in the English language a good 1500 years ago, and was regularly used in texts such as Chaucers Canterbury Tales. So why do so many people consider it taboo or shocking?

Cunt fell out of usage for several centuries, and was not a commonly used word at the beginning of the 20th century. But by the 30s it was an insult for women in American English. It picked up further currency as the straightforward term for the female genitals with the release of DH Lawrences Lady Chatterleys Lover - it was the inclusion of the word cunt more than the word fuck which was responsible for most of the controversy around its publication. In the last 30 years there has been a substantial change of meaning in the way the word is used - its now seen as an insult, in many peoples eyes the worst term of abuse. But why is being called a cunt so objectionable?

When used as a swearword, cunt seems to convey profoundly misogynist connotations - that the nastiest dirtiest word someone could come up with was the word for a womans vagina shows a deep fear of womens sexuality, argue those who object to its use.

But really cunt is no different to dick or prick its taboo comes simply from its origin as a naughty sex-related word. Opposing the use of cunt is itself sexist, because it grants more respected status to a womans genitals than to a mans. The extra level of offensiveness that many people perceive the word to carry implies a squeamishness about womens bits - this attitude is in itself sexist or even misogynist! Were beginning to get over that squeamishness, reverting the word back to its original meaning and reclaiming it as a descriptive term. This is a positive action, removing its negative connotations. Stage show The Vagina Monologues popularised this and more power to anyone supporting it.

A word is only offensive because of the meaning we give it - if we refuse to see cunt as an insult, or a derogatory term, its use cannot be objectionable to us. But can we as women be comfortable with our cunts if we also use the term as a swearword or term of abuse? It certainly seems a little schizophrenic to both celebrate the word and use it negatively. Again, we should look at the dual use of words for mens genitalia. A guy wont object if you refer to his dick during sex play - yet hell react in anger when hes called it in the street. Context is everything - to describe a penis as a dick is a statement of fact; to describe an entire human being as a dick is derogatory simply because it implies there is nothing more than that to them as a person. Why cant the same analysis apply to cunt?

Perhaps the difference lies in which gender uses the word - women rarely call each other dicks men on the other hand consider cunt the greatest slur on their person. This say the words opponents, is sure evidence of misogyny - men are afraid of cunts; they menace each other with the threat of being compared to one.

In a liberated world, with both sexes truly equal, perhaps this would not matter. Until then however, in a world where women are still oppressed and continue to fight against that, this imbalance in status surely has some relevance to what words we consider bad?

Does that mean men cant use the word cunt in an abusive way - that it should be reserved for womens use? Not necessarily. After all, if men can use it in a descriptive way, why not the other way too? The distinction seems facile. And distinguishing who can use a word on the basis of their sex seems unnecessarily discriminatory and separatist. Are you more offended when a man uses cunt as a term of abuse than when a woman does? Should you be? And does that mean a woman using dick as an insult is necessarily more offensive than a man using it? To be honest I dont know what the answer is. But Id be interested to hear what you think.

Comment on this article


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

To be religious just means you sought sanctity and found it in something, right?


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Apparently because I believe gay rights I'm probably a gay man.
> Since I believe in the rights of transgender people I must be transgender.
> And since I believe that the sun is a ball of hydrogen gas engaged in a prolonged nuclear reaction, I must be a ball of hydrogen gas engaged in a prolonged nuclear reaction. Now how can I use that to power my car.


I believe you all should give your harvests to AFRAWFRAW! I really do...

So we find comfort in fact, and others in faith...As long as we can smoke together...


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> To be religious just means you sought sanctity and found it in something, right?


Perhaps that's why I never needed religion... I found my sanctity early on via singing & performing. CJ and I were just discussing following one's passion, and how "blessed" I was by being able to do so with my career until my body gave out. I can't perform on stage anymore, but I still sing constantly, and play guitar when the arthritis allows my fingers to do so. I'm also blessed to have a 20 yr. old son who shares my passion, is a tremendously talented musician (guitar, keys, drums, harp; you name it! lol), and loves to sit and jam with Mom often. Music is my therapy. I can take all of my stress and put it up into the music. Life's B.S. may still be there, but for me music so easily relieves the stress that comes with it.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

"A Bard and a Brew will greet a pirate at any watering hole worth it's brass." - Pirate saying


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Perhaps that's why I never needed religion... I found my sanctity early on via singing & performing. CJ and I were just discussing following one's passion, and how "blessed" I was by being able to do so with my career until my body gave out. I can't perform on stage anymore, but I still sing constantly, and play guitar when the arthritis allows my fingers to do so. I'm also blessed to have a 20 yr. old son who shares my passion, is a tremendously talented musician (guitar, keys, drums, harp; you name it! lol), and loves to sit and jam with Mom often. Music is my therapy. I can take all of my stress and put it up into the music. Life's B.S. may still be there, but for me music so easily relieves the stress that comes with it.


Religion fills a lot of needs just like your music...My sanctity lies in science. Facts are reliable and only change through progress. So I have an open mind, but realize that OUR science is being discovered by HUMANS, who are flawed by nature.


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Mar 9, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> Religion fills a lot of needs just like your music...My sanctity lies in science. Facts are reliable and only change through progress. So I have an open mind, but realize that OUR science is being discovered by HUMANS, who are flawed by nature.


Good thought


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> Religion fills a lot of needs just like your music...My sanctity lies in science. Facts are reliable and only change through progress. So I have an open mind, but realize that OUR science is being discovered by HUMANS, who are flawed by nature.


ITA with this. However, upon speaking of finding personal sanctity, my thoughts went straight to emotional ("spiritual") comfort. After all, my opinion (and that of many others) is that the fulfillment religion provides most (all?) believers when all is said and done is emotional.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

After thought... One of the things I love about music is that, as emotionally provoking as it is, it still has to follow mathematical rules or it is horrendous.  You can bend the rules slightly, but even then only if it's done "right" per se; I sometimes think of it a bit analogous to changing not the numbers in an equation, but only the order in which the numbers are processed. (Well, kinda sorta, anyhow. I'm tired & high, and can't articulate well today. So sue me! lol) Music is the one thing I've known in this world to be so sheerly emotional and yet simultaneously so damn logical.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

ITA? Forgive me...I don't know this one.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 9, 2010)

In that Amount??


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## shnkrmn (Mar 9, 2010)

noooo, in total agreement. It's a new one to me too!


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

I Totally Agree.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

You could use digital binary. 1=kick, 0=cymbal...lol


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

No no no no no... not fair! Don't make me think about numbers today! Hello? Tired & high, remember?


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

The number eight is fuzzy looking...There we go.


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

It's all swirly and glowy looking, too.

I was gonna find just a simple infinity symbol image, but although this one is broken and therefore doesn't really represent infinity anymore, I still think it just looks cool.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> It's all swirly and glowy looking, too.
> 
> I was gonna find just a simple infinity symbol image, but although this one is broken and therefore doesn't really represent infinity anymore, I still think it just looks cool.


Poke! Poke! Poke!


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## Katatawnic (Mar 9, 2010)

Stop that... it tickles! 

(Oh, I sooo wish I could sleep!!!)


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## mindphuk (Mar 9, 2010)




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## CrackerJax (Mar 9, 2010)

That points it out brilliantly....


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

mindphuk said:


>


Does any one have a FAYGO? I just threw up in my mouth...


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## afrawfraw (Mar 9, 2010)

http://bookrate.wordpress.com/2006/07/22/deaths-over-history-religious-vs-nonreligous/

Things that make you go...HMMMMM


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## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Classic Babsian dodge. Kind of like: *"Wowza....too entirely much to digest for my being on this clock.....it's earlier for you."*
> 
> Or my favorite: *"Ack, I can't get in depth with this today...life is short and debating and arguing for what purpose life exists is a waste of precious time."*
> 
> Which really kind of leaves you without any reason for being in this thread. We are necessarily debating and arguing for what purpose life exists. If that is a waste of precious time, then what activity is more valuable?????? Why even log on to RIU????


 *I'll start with this one.*



shnkrmn said:


> Classic Babsian dodge. Kind of like: *"Wowza....too entirely much to digest for my being on this clock.....it's earlier for you."*
> *Kind of like, yeah.*
> *Maybe I should cry the river and list the itenerary I had that day?...or that I take the same mediation that narcoleptics use?*
> *I DO have a life....and being it's so "Sheltered"...I should have probably hit myself up with some speed, "for the sake of sensitivity" naturally.*
> ...


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## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Apparently because I believe gay rights I'm probably a gay man.
> Since I believe in the rights of transgender people I must be transgender.
> And since I believe that the sun is a ball of hydrogen gas engaged in a prolonged nuclear reaction, I must be a ball of hydrogen gas engaged in a prolonged nuclear reaction. Now how can I use that to power my car.


 ...last I heard, the Israelis are working on that.
I repped C*J, unlike him, I don't use a gold badge of pride with a paid subscription.
...indoctrination for his followers.
Nice babsian dodge with evading my quesiton.....


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## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

morgentaler said:


> Well this is interesting. I can find no trace of the posts where Babs and (I think) Roseman were both saying that America has been ruined by taking prayer out of school.
> 
> But I repeat the statement. If the kids went to school tomorrow and were asked to pray to Allah or Odin, how loud would the shrieks be from the Christian parents.


 *......"shrieking" ....I'll opt for normal conversational tone. Normal works for me.*


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## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> I have a checkmate.
> 
> Of course....


 ...relax, I'm not competing for your activity award. You still get to showcase it with pride...you earned it.


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## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Ignorance and homophobia are so closely related and so equally dangerous to us all and our future that you'll have to excuse me if it's hard to tell the difference from this side.
> 
> It was your words that caused the problem regardless of if you had malice behind it the end result is identical.
> 
> ...


*Here we go from dangers of religion in our society to dangers of phobias. What has this atheist thread proven, if not phobias via ignorance? Yea, ignorance. It's all one sided of course...your side.*

*What is dangerous to you, is equally sacred to another. Why is what YOU hold as dear of more importance than what I deem special?*
*Rid once and for all the inference of my possible growing phobia. It's only a defense mechanism on your part. Let's not even discuss the possibility of what doesn't exist......isn't that always the stance taken via the atheist? *

*Time to dispel that myth.*

*Oregon, it's hard for you to tell the difference from "your" side, because YOU are the one who is *
*there.*

*You are asking that I take introspection in hopes I will CLEARLY see your point of view as TRUTH. I tell you it is BECAUSE there was no malice, as in even the slightest ounce, that I will be disappointing you here. No one has the "right" to not be offended on the one hand, on the other, there is such a thing as consideration.....and not just for what YOU consider. I see very little.. if any at all, of that exhibited. A little introspection and questioning could have saved a lot of drama. *

*When you are up drinking your coffee, I may be off to bed after having been up for 18 hours straight and driving through 5 hours of traffic. (which was the case that day btw)..... Naturally, I EXPECT and DEMAND that you read ALL of that into consideration via your psychic powers prior to posting your very "thoughtless" response.  There are a few of you who should have just known better, and if you didn't...a little inquiry was in order before taking the leap to "true comprehension."*

*If you are seeking consideration, don't you think it wise to have at least first exhibited what you request?*
*You accuse me of looking at everything with a narrow view, while you post in a thread that reeks of them. I call that hypocrisy. You call it bringing attention to a much needed issue.*
*You are very quick to go on to accuse me of being thoughtless......while you claim you are not being oversensitive, it is of course me that is being INsensitive.*
*My "words" were misconstrued. There is no need for a forthcoming apology. If there were, I would be the first to admit and have done so already. My goal in life is not to offend others, nor is it to knock down those foolish imbeciles (aka Christians) as No. 1 danger to America. What you and others are repeatedly clamoring is "number one danger to MY belief system."*
*While you are attempting to tell me to open my narrow-minded disposition, digest in the same moment that you and others are setting the rules....fair only to you.*
*My words didn't cause the problem. It was lack of restraint and discipline with introspection altogether. It was a case of OVERSENSITIVITY. *
*You are correct in assuming there was no malice in my words. And reading into them, rather MIS-reading, only serves to cause conflict.*
*This is LIFE.....you guys make it game to blame religion (particularly Christianity) for the entire world's problems, and more importantly your own "issues." It is INATE that mankind will always be in opposition to one another....but let's waste our time and energy blaming a God, or even the "possibility" of a superior being. *

*OF COURSE it's about your sensitivity on the topic. How could it NOT be? It's YOU, your very essence.*

*Try applying that logic when posting to me.*

*If you are going to "converse" with someone, know what they are and what they stand for before banging your and their head up against a wall.*

*Life IS short. *
*There is always the other side......ALWAYS....and you can take that inference whichever way you wish. *
__________________


----------



## shnkrmn (Mar 10, 2010)

Look babs, I'm just pointing out that you have the time to post loooong statements preambled with I don't have time for this, I have responsibilities and a life and medication. You DO acknowledge questions that you seem to think we ask solely for entertainment purposes, but you DO acknowledge them by stating you don't have time to take them up because of your itinerary and . . . stuff. And a reminder: this IS the Atheism thread. It's not the hey, let's measure everybody's spiritual dick (not that you have one, dear) thread. By its title alone, this thread gives priority to atheists. I don't care about your commute, or your medications. I say again, if you really have that much going on, you should probably cut RIU out of your life; it's not productive.



Babs34 said:


> *I'll start with this one.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

Life is your entertainment while awaiting your death.


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 10, 2010)

First off, after 1700 posts or so.... it's called multiquote.

I do wear my elite status *PROUDLY*, because I actually *CONTRIBUTE* to the site financially. I, and many others help keep the servers going. I put my money where my mouth is...how about you? 

Hardly the conceit you make it out to be. 

What a negative person you are.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Look babs, I'm just pointing out that you have the time to post loooong statements preambled with I don't have time for this, I have responsibilities and a life and medication. You DO acknowledge questions that you seem to think we ask solely for entertainment purposes, but you DO acknowledge them by stating you don't have time to take them up because of your itinerary and . . . stuff. And a reminder: this IS the Atheism thread. It's not the hey, let's measure everybody's spiritual dick (not that you have one, dear) thread. By its title alone, this thread gives priority to atheists. I don't care about your commute, or your medications. I say again, if you really have that much going on, you should probably cut RIU out of your life; it's not productive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

I like tomatoes. Tomatoes grow in the same general conditions. FURTHERMORE, they grow upside down, and provide healthy fruits. They are also red. I think I've made my point.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> First off, after 1700 posts or so.... it's called multiquote.
> 
> I do wear my elite status *PROUDLY*, because I actually *CONTRIBUTE* to the site financially. I, and many others help keep the servers going. I put my money where my mouth is...how about you?
> 
> ...


 *lol, THANKS for continuing to prove a point. That substance really told me!*
I put my money where my mouth is...how about you? 
*Really now?* *You put your money where your mouth is, eh?*

*Those members who "aren't" in posession of a paid subscription are what? ....subservients perhaps?''*

* I will give you credit for making good use of it.*


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> I like tomatoes. Tomatoes grow in the same general conditions. FURTHERMORE, they grow upside down, and provide healthy fruits. They are also red. I think I've made my point.


 *I dunno....I like tomatoes myself, but my comprehension may have been a little skewed here...care to elaborate?*


----------



## fulbright (Mar 10, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *ME ME ME...and fuck everyone else....it's the atheist way. I think I may have just embarked upon the atheist theme , LOL. *


Tell me you're not serious...

Because if you are...


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

fulbright said:


> Tell me you're not serious...
> 
> Because if you are...


 hahaha, this is hysterical.
Let me guess, you are an atheist? Oh wait, I shouldn't assume, that would make me an ass.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> *I dunno....I like tomatoes myself, but my comprehension may have been a little skewed here...care to elaborate?*


a rhetorical question of course. I don't expect you to waste your time with responding.


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 10, 2010)

She's quite mental... 

Your posts are practically unreadable, but I give you some credit for TRYING to multiquote. Typing inside quotes means no one will finish your posts.

You seem to be in complete disarray in both your form and content.

I'm not surprised you didn't comprehend my elite post. 

Can't see through the hate I suppose.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> She's quite mental...
> 
> Your posts are practically unreadable, but I give you some credit for TRYING to multiquote. Typing inside quotes means no one will finish your posts.
> 
> ...


 I'm quite sane. 
What you "seem" to believe is that I really care about your simple, yes, very simple remarks.
......simple, yes simple.


----------



## fulbright (Mar 10, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> hahaha, this is hysterical.
> Let me guess, you are an atheist? Oh wait, I shouldn't assume, that would make me an ass.


I _am_ an atheist, yes. But that's not the issue. You're singling out atheists for something that can (and often does) apply to *everyone*.

Unless you're saying that there exists some branch of Humanity, or even Life itself that is impervious to selfishness?


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

Selfishness is our nature. Without self preservation we would not thrive. And I judge people all day every day. Every one does. There is the idea of you in your mind, and then there is you. There is the idea of you in my mind, and then there is you. Same for me. And every one. Our subconscious operates without our knowledge, and effects our behavior. And as a species we still think we know shit. BWAHAHAHAHAHA! And I am an Atheist too. But no one knows what the fuck, so arguing is pointless unless education is involved. The worst way to start to teach or learn is to tell some one they are wrong. And if you want to have a pissing contest, I won't reply...People acting franticly just isn't by bag baby!


----------



## shnkrmn (Mar 10, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> I'm quite sane.
> What you "seem" to believe is that I really care about your simple, yes, very simple remarks.
> ......simple, yes simple.


Your continual replies indicate that you DO care, or you would just quit. CJ can say more in two sentences than you can in 2000 words. Of course, he gets a little practice and has some talent. Plus he actually KNOWS what his message is. You mistake clarity for simpleness


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

fulbright said:


> I _am_ an atheist, yes. But that's not the issue. You're singling out atheists for something that can (and often does) apply to *everyone*.
> 
> Unless you're saying that there exists some branch of Humanity, or even Life itself that is impervious to selfishness?


*Fulbright, you evidently have not been following along.*
*I was poking fun...most won't get that...patting CJ on the head.*

*I singled out atheists for a purpose...one sole purpose.*

*Correct, life applies to us ALL.*
*Note I did state this already. *

*It is because of opposition in humanity that no such branch will ever exist....with or without the presence of religion.*


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

"Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson, considering three different explanations for why sea shells would be found at higher elevations than one should reasonably expect an ocean to have existed, in Notes on the State of Virginia


----------



## shnkrmn (Mar 10, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> "Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong."
> -- Thomas Jefferson, considering three different explanations for why sea shells would be found at higher elevations than one should reasonably expect an ocean to have existed, in Notes on the State of Virginia


You are getting rep for that, young afrawfraw.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Your continual replies indicate that you DO care, or you would just quit. CJ can say more in two sentences than you can in 2000 words. Of course, he gets a little practice and has some talent. Plus he actually KNOWS what his message is. You mistake clarity for simpleness


*LOL, you're entitled to your opinion. What you read into my posts is your take known to your thought process...which is right on target...you are right. I am wrong.*

*You missed the tone, but that's ok.*

*Generally speaking, I care, but you once again totally missed the point. **Don't let this shock you, but I really wasn't crying a river. *

*I know my message. Sometimes you just need to read in between the lines.*
*...and to your response on the "simple" comment posed to CJ, he gets it. *

* Allow me to clarify once again, I didn't just shoot you the rod.......*
*You are mistaking proper comprehension with clarity.....but that's ok.......tis human nature*


----------



## shnkrmn (Mar 10, 2010)

Nobody's interested in what's between the lines. If you can't express yourself well, practice more, so people will read, be interested and care what you have to say.

Missing tone in a forum like this? How do you craft tone when you write on the fly? You can't depend on interstitial, implicit communication.

As for crying a river, I'm pretty sure whenever you trot out a hackneyed phrase like that, one REALLY doesn't need to read the sentence containing it.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> "Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong."
> -- Thomas Jefferson, considering three different explanations for why sea shells would be found at higher elevations than one should reasonably expect an ocean to have existed, in Notes on the State of Virginia


 *...looks like you got two big fat AMENS*
*Don't let the amen offend you.*
*.....works both ways. *
* Simplicity often mimics complexity in a mirrored fashion, unveiled, one unto the other. *


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Nobody's interested in what's between the lines. If you can't express yourself well, practice more, so people will read, be interested and care what you have to say.
> 
> Missing tone in a forum like this? How do you craft tone when you write on the fly? You can't depend on interstitial, implicit communication.
> 
> As for crying a river, I'm pretty sure whenever you trot out a hackneyed phrase like that, one REALLY doesn't need to read the sentence containing it.


 ..and if you can't comprehend, quit posting to me. Why waste your time? You must care.


----------



## growwwww (Mar 10, 2010)

babs have u been to uni? studied theology or something?


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> Selfishness is our nature. Without self preservation we would not thrive. And I judge people all day every day. Every one does. There is the idea of you in your mind, and then there is you. There is the idea of you in my mind, and then there is you. Same for me. And every one. Our subconscious operates without our knowledge, and effects our behavior. And as a species we still think we know shit. BWAHAHAHAHAHA! And I am an Atheist too. But no one knows what the fuck, so arguing is pointless unless education is involved. The worst way to start to teach or learn is to tell some one they are wrong. And if you want to have a pissing contest, I won't reply...People acting franticly just isn't by bag baby!


.*.....and you get NO argument from me there.*


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

growwwww said:


> babs have u been to uni? studied theology or something?


Your reason for questioning would be?


----------



## growwwww (Mar 10, 2010)

Just curious if you have been to uni to study something like theology im unsure i was going to ask ethics and philosophy maybe?
Just because u remind me of a certain breed of privately educated people i know who then went to uni to study theology and the way you speak reminds me of the way they argue - probably unrelated just a stoned thought.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

*I would not go as far as to make that claim.*
*I have engaged in numerous hours studying religion.....primarlily Christianity/Judiasm/islam.*
*Am I professing to be an expert? Nope*

*I enjoy diving into my garden much moreso than impractically taking a nose dive to these nonsensical back and forth exchanges, however. *


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

I apologize in advance for this off topic post, but WOW!

I just had to tell someone NOT TO PISS IN THEIR WEED!

Can I get a QP of THAT PISS WEED PLEASE?
YUMMY


https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/308855-how-not-grow-mary-jane.html


----------



## growwwww (Mar 10, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> I apologize in advance for this off topic post, but WOW!
> 
> I just had to tell someone NOT TO PISS IN THEIR WEED!
> 
> ...


if u dilute ur piss alot it wont harm the plants and will be beneficial.

If ur gonna say that the stuff going into the soil mixture and through the roots is gonna be the weed. Then people grow their weed with chicken shit etc...We dont call it chicken shit weed -_-


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

Are you seriously suggesting that human waste is more beneficial in a bio-active soil?


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

I know down to the nitty gritty detail how organisms assist bacteria dominant soil (VS Fungi dominant). I know it won't smell or taste like piss, but, IF I SHAVE MY BODY AND MADE YOU A DOUGHNUT, wouldn't you want the one made by a machine, even if I were sanitary? Tell the truth now...

Human waste is not ideal...I think we know that. You thought I was ignorant, which is understandable given the setting.


----------



## growwwww (Mar 10, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> Are seriously suggesting that human waste is more beneficial in a bio-active soil?


Hm im saying that i do believe human urine does contain a fair amount of nitrogen in it. However its slightly acidic usually but to avoid the acidic problem can defintely be used if watered down say 10:1

this thread describes its use and some pros/cons

just throwing shit out there!!! dnt worry i dnt piss in my plants either man


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That's what I wanted to hear....Phew!


----------



## growwwww (Mar 10, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/organics/17800-using-urine-fertilizer.html

heres the thread im so stoned i forgot to post it even though i said 'heres a thread'


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

Just in case any one cares about organics...

https://www.rollitup.org/organics/310499-what-your-organic-soil-what.html


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

This was taken from your link, Growwwww.

"A balanced and healthy diet means balanced and healthy urine. Keep fit and eat well and you should have nutrient rich urine and happy plants."
Let's chase down some vegans and ask them for urine....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Sorry, I grow good weed. No dis-respect to the thread poster.


----------



## growwwww (Mar 10, 2010)

im sure urine can still be beneficial. 


I dont use it though i can understand though why it could be. Im sure its not anything that amazing....ha


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

growwwww said:


> im sure urine can still be beneficial.
> 
> 
> I dont use it though i can understand though why it could be. Im sure its not anything that amazing....ha


I concur. I concur.


----------



## shnkrmn (Mar 10, 2010)

Ahem.

* Atheism *


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

My plants do NOT believe in god. That is all.


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## PadawanBater (Mar 10, 2010)

What do you guys think the implication would be if we discovered other species who believed in Gods?


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> What do you guys think the implication would be if we discovered other species who believed in Gods?


That misery loves company.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

The only conclusion one could draw is that they have the intelligence of at least a chimp?


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

I guess a better question would be how it would influence each species...


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 10, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> What do you guys think the implication would be if we discovered other species who believed in Gods?



heheh.... I have mentioned this before.

What if aliens did show up ... and THEY had a book. THE book. A BETTER book....


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> heheh.... I have mentioned this before.
> 
> What if aliens did show up ... and THEY had a book. THE book. A BETTER book....


Can you imagine the looks of horror on their faces if they pre-judged based on our books and then witnessed human nature?

If it were me I would wipe the face of earth, poor some fertilizers on it, and bounce thinking I cleaned up a mess.

HA HA HA HA


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 10, 2010)

The very best you could hope for....and I do mean the very best is .... that their book IS better than ours. If it is LIKE ours....they will kill every one of us.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> The very best you could hope for....and I do mean the very best is .... that their book IS better than ours. If it is LIKE ours....they will kill every one of us.


I have a sense of humor so I hope that they wrote it as a joke and are laughing their asses off right now!


----------



## Hayduke (Mar 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> To be Christian or Muslim is to be a cultist.


Yup.



Stoney McFried said:


> I like the word cunt.


My first step mother used it when extreme emphasis was needed...usually in traffic...and usually as "ignorant cunt!"...Dumb cunt is nice too 



CrackerJax said:


> First off, after 1700 posts or so.... it's called multiquote.


No shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10 damn pages of bickering that cant even be followed if you wanted too!...about 7 or 8 posts worth reading in 100!


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 10, 2010)

HEY-DUKE .... ur not just saying that because it's me are you? Are you part of my "gang"....


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> HEY-DUKE .... ur not just saying that because it's me are you? Are you part of my "gang"....


CRACKER SIDE! Oh, wait. That didn't come out right...


----------



## mindphuk (Mar 10, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> What do you guys think the implication would be if we discovered other species who believed in Gods?


If aliens visited Earth, they would most likely try to communicate with the species here that has the most complex language. How surprised would we be when they start talking to whales?


----------



## Hayduke (Mar 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> HEY-DUKE .... ur not just saying that because it's me are you? Are you part of my "gang"....


Whoa!...easy there...I know it's weird...


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

*haha, if it's not stroking the pole, it's eachother's ego trips.*


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## CrackerJax (Mar 10, 2010)

Everything seems to go over your head Babs....

I'm shocked...


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 10, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Everything seems to go over your head Babs....
> 
> I'm shocked...


 not shocked.... in a stupor


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 11, 2010)

What would you guys do if Jesus came to Earth and raptured away all the Christians?


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 11, 2010)

I'd know I'm in heaven.


----------



## Katatawnic (Mar 11, 2010)

How fitting... this was emailed to me on my birthday. I got a kick out of it.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 11, 2010)

Just imagine Jesus NOT coming...Oh, wait...


----------



## Stoney McFried (Mar 11, 2010)

When he's having sex, does he yell,"JESUS IS COMING! JESUS IS COMING!"


afrawfraw said:


> Just imagine Jesus NOT coming...Oh, wait...


----------



## Stoney McFried (Mar 11, 2010)




----------



## Katatawnic (Mar 11, 2010)

Oh Stoney, that is sooo bad!  My mom would have a heart attack for sure, and she's not even really all that religious!


----------



## Stoney McFried (Mar 11, 2010)

Well,you know if he was real, he'd have totally been getting it on with Mary Magdelene. My mom was bitching about that the other day, when my 12 year old said, "Jesus CHRIST!" She told her to watch her mouth, and I proceeded to inform her that it's not a cuss word,because he didn't exist. It would be the equivalent of yelling,"Invisible man!" She didn't like that too much, because the fear still runs deep in her.


Katatawnic said:


> Oh Stoney, that is sooo bad!  My mom would have a heart attack for sure, and she's not even really all that religious!


----------



## Katatawnic (Mar 11, 2010)

Stoney McFried said:


> Well,you know if he was real, he'd have totally been getting it on with Mary Magdelene. My mom was bitching about that the other day, when my 12 year old said, "Jesus CHRIST!" She told her to watch her mouth, and I proceeded to inform her that it's not a cuss word,because he didn't exist. It would be the equivalent of yelling,"Invisible man!" She didn't like that too much, because the fear still runs deep in her.


My grandmother slapped my mom hard across the face for saying that once, and she was Jewish!  But she was from a generation in which good little ladies were seen but not heard, and certainly never heard saying disrespectable things. I've never said it around my mom (actually, I rarely ever say it), solely out of respect for her personal beliefs.

I always though it rather funny, though. People can say, "Oh, GOD!" and that's OK. But to say "Jesus Christ!" is taboo. Go figure.

You know, when I was a kid, long before I'd heard of Graham and assertions of others about musings of an intimate relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene, I pictured her being his "girlfriend" from the Bible Story kids' series. He may have never been depicted as married, but he wasn't a eunuch either. Even to a little girl's mind, their devotion to each other just seemed rather romantic. A way my parents would have behaved toward each other.


----------



## Stoney McFried (Mar 11, 2010)

My mom grew up in that generation too...but she certainly was promiscuous, so apparently that part of morality didn't bother her. I think maybe she thinks she's a bad person, and if she kisses god's ass a little, he won't judge her so harshly. I try to have respect for other's, but it seems like a lot of Christians certainly don't consider that I'd rather not be bombarded with their little messages. In my daughter's school, they were showing a film about different cultures and religions, which is fine... but my daughter said the film spoke about Christ like he was an actual historical figure, as in "Around the time of Jesus". I went into her school one day, and one of the secretaries has a Bible verse on the counter in the office on display in view of anyone who is standing there. I fond that offensive, because I know if someone posted the Wiccan Rede there, someone would raise a shit fit.


Katatawnic said:


> My grandmother slapped my mom hard across the face for saying that once, and she was Jewish!  But she was from a generation in which good little ladies were seen but not heard, and certainly never heard saying disrespectable things. I've never said it around my mom (actually, I rarely ever say it), solely out of respect for her personal beliefs.
> 
> I always though it rather funny, though. People can say, "Oh, GOD!" and that's OK. But to say "Jesus Christ!" is taboo. Go figure.
> 
> You know, when I was a kid, long before I'd heard of Graham and assertions of others about musings of an intimate relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene, I pictured her being his "girlfriend" from the Bible Story kids' series. He may have never been depicted as married, but he wasn't a eunuch either. Even to a little girl's mind, their devotion to each other just seemed rather romantic. A way my parents would have behaved toward each other.


----------



## Katatawnic (Mar 11, 2010)

"An ye harm none, do what ye will." I know, it's so horrible, ain't it?! 

Just to clarify, I meant my grandmother came from such a generation, not my mom; hence a Jew slapping her daughter for saying such a naughty thing.


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 11, 2010)

Ever notice that the Spanish are crazy about Christianity?

What's one of their favorite male names? Jesus.....

The taboo is only for white ppl? 

I would definitely nema my kid Jesus, and then when the teacher pronounces it Hayzues....my kid can correct them and say, ni, I pronounce it Jesus.  

Middle initial woulf have to be H of course.


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 11, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Ever notice that the Spanish are crazy about Christianity?
> 
> What's one of their favorite male names? Jesus.....
> 
> ...



Jesus H. C(racker) 

lmfao


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 11, 2010)

Exactly.... 

If I had a kid and named him Jesus, I would be tempted to send him to a Catholic school..... if he thought he could stand it. One condition...he's just got to record the nuns for me at roll call....

Hayzues...

No, it's Jesus....

Hayzues!!

No, it's Jesus...


Hayzues!!! (SMACK!!!)  Crazy penguins....


----------



## Stoney McFried (Mar 11, 2010)

I got that. My parents were "older" when they had me. Mom was 39 and dad was 47, so they were a part of that generation.


Katatawnic said:


> "An ye harm none, do what ye will." I know, it's so horrible, ain't it?!
> 
> Just to clarify, I meant my grandmother came from such a generation, not my mom; hence a Jew slapping her daughter for saying such a naughty thing.


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 11, 2010)

[youtube]fY0x_YNlhz8[/youtube]

The best 10 minutes of your day!


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 11, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> [youtube]fY0x_YNlhz8[/youtube]
> 
> The best 10 minutes of your day!


That's why religion works, not why it was started...IMO


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 11, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> That's why religion works, not why it was started...IMO


I agree.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 11, 2010)

Someone had to do it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDSnOlWx80k


----------



## Katatawnic (Mar 12, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> Someone had to do it...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDSnOlWx80k


LOL! I had this video mirrored well over a year ago, but YT took it down because it was copyrighted... never mind that the original poster/creator gave me permission to mirror it!  This one will probably be taken down sooner or later too, when YT discovers it.


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

*Uhhh, did I happen to mention that the Catholic Church is insane?*

=================================================================
Finally, we learn who is responsible for Catholic sex scandals Published on March 12th, 2010 







*&#8220;The Devil made &#8216;em do it!&#8221;* Sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that that &#8220;the Devil is at work inside the Vatican&#8221;, according to the Holy See&#8217;s chief exorcist.
Father Gabriele Amorth, 85, who has been the Vatican&#8217;s chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession, said that the consequences of satanic infiltration included power struggles at the Vatican as well as &#8220;cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon&#8221;.
He added: &#8220;When one speaks of &#8216;the smoke of Satan&#8217; [a phrase coined by Pope Paul VI in 1972] in the holy rooms, it is all true &#8211; including these latest stories of violence and paedophilia&#8230;&#8221;
Father Amorth told La Repubblica that the devil was &#8220;pure spirit, invisible. But he manifests himself with blasphemies and afflictions in the person he possesses. He can remain hidden, or speak in different languages, transform himself or appear to be agreeable. At times he makes fun of me.&#8221;
He said it sometimes took six or seven of his assistants to to hold down a possessed person. Those possessed often yelled and screamed and spat out nails or pieces of glass, which he kept in a bag. &#8220;Anything can come out of their mouths &#8211; finger-length pieces of iron, but also rose petals.&#8221;
He said that hoped every diocese would eventually have a resident exorcist&#8230;​ He&#8217;s also head of the Exorcists Union. I&#8217;d love to listen in on contract negotiations with the Pope.


----------



## jfgordon1 (Mar 12, 2010)

the devil is responsible... now i've heard it all!


----------



## Katatawnic (Mar 12, 2010)

It took all this time for them to figure out the *real* culprit? Wow, they're slow!


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> the devil is responsible... now i've heard it all!


That's nothing! I had to tell a couple people NOT to piss in their weed!

The "Devil" is an icon for the side of humanity that is not easy to stomach...


----------



## Katatawnic (Mar 12, 2010)

I'll bet at least half of them told you that you can indeed piss in your weed, and then proceeded to tell you not only why, but how to do it correctly.


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

Piss will work.... it's a test of your faith.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

Maybe I should right a book on renewable energy fertilizers...You just eat a bunch of daily vitamins, and then urinate and defecate in your hydroponic reservoir...LOL.

Or spray on colas 1 day before harvest to boost thc production and even out the "TASTE"...ROF.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

"This is 'Yellow Haze' brotha...It's the SHIT!"


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 12, 2010)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/16/AR2010021604899.html

"So should we keep the foster program going, I mean... even though we hate homosexuals?... Aren't the kids more important than our feelings?... Nah! Fuck the kids! If they're going to be living with GAY PARENTS then I'd rather they live on the streets!"

Fuck Organized Religion and the ignorant fucks that come from it!


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/16/AR2010021604899.html
> 
> "So should we keep the foster program going, I mean... even though we hate homosexuals?... Aren't the kids more important than our feelings?... Nah! Fuck the kids! If they're going to be living with GAY PARENTS then I'd rather they live on the streets!"
> 
> Fuck Organized Religion and the ignorant fucks that come from it!


DAMN! Is it COLD in here? Frigid, even


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

Funny how Christians will always say they are into Jesus and it's really about his testament, but bring up the subject of gays, and it is straight into the Old Testament, jesus thrown overboard in a hurry....not even a rubber ducky.


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 12, 2010)

Christians are the best cherry pickers on the planet!

http://www.aclu.org/blog/project/religion-%26-belief

Here's another one! Damn I bet this shit is sooooooo useful in countries in Africa! Boy am I glad American tax dollars are going to this cause! Wow!


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

A common tactic of the church.... we'll feed you ... under CERTAIN conditions.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> A common tactic of the church.... we'll feed you ... under CERTAIN conditions.


The whole thing is a fucking joke. The groups make the locals do a song and dance for necessities, then when they leave, the locals curse the stupid pinkies...


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

At least they feed them now. They used to bring swords. Now they can't get away with butchering them into submission..... so it's food.

Wonderful.....


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> At least they feed them now. They used to bring swords. Now they can't get away with butchering them into submission..... so it's food.
> 
> Wonderful.....


Personally, as a slave, I have a very small chance but starving to death affords no future. I guess there is something to be said about a last meal, though.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> Personally, as a slave, I have a very small chance but starving to death affords no future. I guess there is something to be said about a last meal, though.


How bout for April fool's day we drop a few hundred dollars worth of live turkeys in central Africa? 

I'll bring the camera and the ice cream!


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

I'll bring Les Nesman.......


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> I'll bring Les Nesman.......


WKRP can air the commentary!


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

Oh the humanity of it all..... what a classic episode!


----------



## Katatawnic (Mar 12, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/16/AR2010021604899.html


"Now we're in a position where we need to scrutinize everything," he [_Edward Orzechowski, president and chief executive of Catholic Charities, the archdiocese's social service arm_] said. "From our point of view, it's important that we don't in any way compromise our religious teaching."

Talk about cutting off someone else's nose to spite one's own face, eh?  It's things like this that make me despise organized religion.



CrackerJax said:


> Oh the humanity of it all..... what a classic episode!


I remember _WKRP_, I remember Les (if I had a favorite character on the show, I'd have to say it was him), I vaguely remember something about airborne turkeys... but that's all I recall from that episode. I was too young, and even WGN doesn't air _WKRP_ reruns anymore.  Where's _Taxi_, for that matter? What about _Soap_?! It's a travesty, I tell ya! At least I've got _That '70s Show_ reruns for now... it's quite hilarious when I'm high.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

I have no shame in admitting I want the original "V" back...


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> "Now we're in a position where we need to scrutinize everything," he [_Edward Orzechowski, president and chief executive of Catholic Charities, the archdiocese's social service arm_] said. "From our point of view, it's important that we don't in any way compromise our religious teaching."
> 
> Talk about cutting off someone else's nose to spite one's own face, eh?  It's things like this that make me despise organized religion.
> 
> ...


I'm only 31...


----------



## Katatawnic (Mar 12, 2010)

Pppfffttt... you can't make me feel any older than I already do.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 12, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Funny how Christians will always say they are into Jesus and it's really about his testament, but bring up the subject of gays, and it is straight into the Old Testament, jesus thrown overboard in a hurry....not even a rubber ducky.


"terrible" message........just horrendous.......
*8:5* Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned:* but* what sayest thou? *8:6* *This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.* But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. *8:7* So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, *He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.*

*"Book of John"*
*NEW TESTAMENT*


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 12, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> I remember _WKRP_, I remember Les (if I had a favorite character on the show, I'd have to say it was him), I vaguely remember something about airborne turkeys... but that's all I recall from that episode. I was too young, and even WGN doesn't air _WKRP_ reruns anymore.  Where's _Taxi_, for that matter? What about _Soap_?! It's a travesty, I tell ya! At least I've got _That '70s Show_ reruns for now... it's quite hilarious when I'm high.



The 70's show is hilarious I think as well. 

The WKRP episode was a Thanksgiving scenario. The station had the idea of tossing out lots of live Turkeys over a gathering of ppl ... as a promotion plug of course for the station. Les was on location with a live feed....and his commentary as it was broadcast back to the stuidio was over the top funny. 

Les was an integral part of that show. Very funny stuff....

Taxi was another classic as was Barney Miller. You can watch a bunch of that on HULU...


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 12, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> "terrible" message........just horrendous.......
> *8:5* Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned:* but* what sayest thou? *8:6* *This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.* But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. *8:7* So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, *He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.*
> 
> *"Book of John"*
> *NEW TESTAMENT*


I have no doubt that a man named Jesus lived and traipsed around saying he was God's Son. Whether he was or not....

But if dude did say this, IT IS REALLY TOO BAD NO ONE LISTENED.....FOR LIKE 2000 YEARS!

The bottom line is organized religion killed him...

If some chick said she was Allah's wife, and posed a threat to Christian influence , THE church would snuff her...It's simple numbers boys and girls. If you threaten to take power, you go away. Period. If he was god's son, can we ask GOD for an IQ test?


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> I have no doubt that a man named Jesus lived and traipsed around saying he was God's Son. Whether he was or not....
> 
> But if dude did say this, IT IS REALLY TOO BAD NO ONE LISTENED.....FOR LIKE 2000 YEARS!
> 
> ...


 ....can't help but wonder why then it is we, as a supposed Christian nation, haven't snuffed out allah. 

If ever those walls of the mosques should come tumbling down, I highly doubt it will be due to a crusade. 
Should another 2000 years come to pass, I wonder who will be accredited or :::cough::: blamed.
U.S.-Saudi oil imports
fund American mosques
"Saudi Arabia alone has spent $87 billion since 1973 to spread Islam throughout the United States and the Western hemisphere," Safa said.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

Who is snuffing whom?


Christians in Israel, neighboring areas
After World War II, Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus, was 80% Christian and Nazareth 60%. Now those percentages are 20% and 30% respectively, and are shrinking. Jerusalem Christians were a plurality in the 1920s; today, they number under 2 percent of the city's population.

In Jordan, a relatively moderate nation, 94% of the population practices Sunni Islam. The percentage of Christians in Jordan (including the West Bank) in 1952 was 18% but has fallen to under 4%, with the majority being Greek Orthodox. Two percent of the population follows other religions, including Shi&#8217;a Islam.

<LI class=quote>... in a single month during 1998, Egyptian police detained about 1,200 Christians in Al-Kosheh, near Luxor in Upper Egypt. Seized in groups of up to 50 at a time, many were nailed to crosses or manacled to doors with their legs tied together. Then they were beaten and tortured with electric shocks to their genitals while police denounced them as "infidels." 
Although the population of modern Turkey is more than 99% muslim, less than one hundred years ago, under the predecessor Ottoman Empire, it was about 30% Christian. The situation changed when some two million Armenian Christians were massacred between 1905 and 1918, a genocide which the Turkish government still denies.

In Saudi Arabia, Christians are less than 1% of the 21-million population, and the public practice of Christianity is virtually unknown since by law there are no Christians in Saudi Arabia.


----------



## shnkrmn (Mar 13, 2010)

And why should the district government be funding this anyway? Shouldn't the mighty church be funding its charitable work out of its vast coffers? It seems like the taxpayers financed it to the tune of 20 million dollars a year and the Archdiocese gets the credit????

Governments should not use churches as contractors. period.



PadawanBater said:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/16/AR2010021604899.html
> 
> "So should we keep the foster program going, I mean... even though we hate homosexuals?... Aren't the kids more important than our feelings?... Nah! Fuck the kids! If they're going to be living with GAY PARENTS then I'd rather they live on the streets!"
> 
> Fuck Organized Religion and the ignorant fucks that come from it!


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

Every time the church is used by the govt. for situations like that.... the church has violated the constitution. 

They need to be washed out of those programs forever. Like anything, let the church stand on its own merit....and dime.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 13, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Every time the church is used by the govt. for situations like that.... the church has violated the constitution.
> 
> They need to be washed out of those programs forever. Like anything, let the church stand on its own merit....and dime.


And for that matter why hasn't the government just created a bureau of feed everyone but our own (BOFEBOU) and have the same people doing the same shit. You get to control spending, and the missionaries get new shirts! Every body wins!


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

Control spending/Government. Now there is an oxymoron if I ever heard one...


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 13, 2010)

[youtube]0Rqw4krMOug[/youtube]


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

Charity differences between religious and secular people persist if we look at the actual amounts of donations and volunteering. Indeed, measures of the dollars given and occasions volunteered per year produce a yawning gap between the groups. The average annual giving among the religious is $2,210, whereas it is $642 among the secular. Similarly, religious people volunteer an average of 12 times per year, while secular people volunteer an average of 5.8 times. To put this into perspective, religious people are 33 percent of the population but make 52 percent of donations and 45 percent of times volunteered. Secular people are 26 percent of the population but contribute 13 percent of the dollars and 17 percent of the times volunteered. 
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3447051.html


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 13, 2010)

Secular contributions to mankind;

-DNA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA
-Biology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology
-Molecular Biology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_molecular_biology
-Chemistry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry
-Physics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics
-Meteorology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology
-Electricity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity
-Water Purification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purification
-Food Sanitation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation#Sanitation_in_the_food_industry
-Medicine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine
-Astronomy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy
-Education http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education

Just to name a few...

Religion provides people with a cause to give their money to, secular people clean up their mess.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

So none of those in the scientific/educational field are religous and/or believers?


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

Babs.... a completely blank slate.

if only...


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 13, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> So none of those in the scientific/educational field are religous and/or believers?


Of course they are.

Just like how atheists/secular people donate time/money... That's the point. With that previous post of yours you put believers above secular people on the morality scale. I'm pretty sure you don't actually believe that, right? - atheists/secular people are immoral?

Another minor point was that none of the contributions I listed were the result of any religious influence. 

If you want religious influences, look towards the battlefield.


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

I've lived my entire adult life as an atheist. never committed a crime, never cheated anyone, never harmed anyone in any fashion.

What's holding me together? 

It sure isn't religion.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

"simple"...your charming wit.


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

Translation: checkmate.... thanks for playing. 

As usual, you have no answer.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Translation: checkmate.... thanks for playing.
> 
> As usual, you have no answer.


 * there was a question?*
*..try harder, I don't play.*


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> Of course they are.
> 
> Just like how atheists/secular people donate time/money... That's the point. With that previous post of yours you put believers above secular people on the morality scale. I'm pretty sure you don't actually believe that, right? - atheists/secular people are immoral?
> 
> ...


 Just showing some statistics P.
I can't see why it offends you that "the church" isn't being tax'd.
Church's provide services that save people's lives....not referring to "being saved."

..interesting how my last valid point has been dodged. (pats CJ on the head...good boy)
.


----------



## shnkrmn (Mar 13, 2010)

We weren't really talking about charity, babs. The church had its hand in the government till to the tune of 20 mil a year for foster child services. That's not charity, it's business. Charity is when you take money from YOUR pocket not someone else's.



Babs34 said:


> Charity differences between religious and secular people persist if we look at the actual amounts of donations and volunteering. Indeed, measures of the dollars given and occasions volunteered per year produce a yawning gap between the groups. The average annual giving among the religious is $2,210, whereas it is $642 among the secular. Similarly, religious people volunteer an average of 12 times per year, while secular people volunteer an average of 5.8 times. To put this into perspective, religious people are 33 percent of the population but make 52 percent of donations and 45 percent of times volunteered. Secular people are 26 percent of the population but contribute 13 percent of the dollars and 17 percent of the times volunteered.
> http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3447051.html


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

The ONLY reason the church does any charity at all is because it is tax free and it works into the cult recruitment of the desperate (hungry). 

That's the school of fish the church tries to net.... the desperate. 

Babs...try and pay attention.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 13, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> We weren't really talking about charity, babs. The church had its hand in the government till to the tune of 20 mil a year for foster child services. That's not charity, it's business. Charity is when you take money from YOUR pocket not someone else's.





CrackerJax said:


> The ONLY reason the church does any charity at all is because it is tax free and it works into the cult recruitment of the desperate (hungry).
> 
> That's the school of fish the church tries to net.... the desperate.
> 
> Babs...try and pay attention.


That's funny, because I volunteer, and no one comes over to me and says, "Excuse me sir, but are you volunteering? Oh, I see. And do you believe in GOD? No? I see. So are you Agnostic, or an Atheist. Thank you for the information kind stranger!"

Does this happen to you guys?
Am I being left out, AGAIN?


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 13, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> That's funny, because I volunteer, and no one comes over to me and says, "Excuse me sir, but are you volunteering? Oh, I see. And do you believe in GOD? No? I see. So are you Agnostic, or an Atheist. Thank you for the information kind stranger!"
> 
> Does this happen to you guys?
> Am I being left out, AGAIN?


And when I donate...No one calls...WHAT THE HELL???


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

Yes, you are being left out.... 

Bet you didn't get the secret Bible decoder ring either.


----------



## sunshine17542 (Mar 13, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> I've lived my entire adult life as an atheist. never committed a crime, never cheated anyone, never harmed anyone in any fashion.
> 
> What's holding me together?
> 
> It sure isn't religion.


You have God...


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

No, actually I don't.... and that is my point. 

I think I know what you are going to say.... and that is circular logic to the maximum.

Living by reason produces a well balanced person. No need for made up hokem smokem.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> The ONLY reason the church does any charity at all is because it is tax free and it works into the cult recruitment of the desperate (hungry).
> 
> That's the school of fish the church tries to net.... the desperate.
> 
> Babs...try and pay attention.


 "ONLY" reason cj?
Yeah, try again.
Ever heard the saying you can't get blood from a turnip?


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Yes, you are being left out....
> 
> Bet you didn't get the secret Bible decoder ring either.


 
You really ARE "that" predictable.

May God strike me down if I'm lying......I just KNEW something to this affect was your next post.

Try a little normalcy next go around cj.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

sunshine17542 said:


> You have God...


 ...no, I will agree with cj here, it's not God.
via his own words.......

permalink

I've lived my entire adult life as an atheist. never committed a crime, never cheated anyone, never harmed anyone in any fashion.

What's holding me together? 

It sure isn't religion. 

.....it's HYPOCRISY and .....lying at best.


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> That's funny, because I volunteer, and no one comes over to me and says, "Excuse me sir, but are you volunteering? Oh, I see. And do you believe in GOD? No? I see. So are you Agnostic, or an Atheist. Thank you for the information kind stranger!"
> 
> Does this happen to you guys?
> Am I being left out, AGAIN?


 .....no decoder ring necessary.
We run by statistics of how many are even living in the USA. Do you find those to be on target too?


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 13, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> .....no decoder ring necessary.
> We run by statistics of how many are even living in the USA. Do you find those to be on target too?


I've been meaning to fill out one of those Census thingy's too!

The fact of the matter is, the numbers are guesstimates at best!

And as for motivation, I don't mean to bash religion (really), but I have met very few missionaries or crusaders or whatever the PC term is this year, who REALLY GOT OFF on charity. Most of them are earning a badge for their Eagle Scout Sash. Sorry. just my experience...


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

It's called multi quote.

The charity work is intertwined with missionary work.... conversion...indoctrination of those who become dependent on the charity.

A low point in morality....cloaked to look like morality. It is closer to bribery...of the worst sort.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 13, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Yes, you are being left out....
> 
> Bet you didn't get the secret Bible decoder ring either.


WHAT!? WTF! All I got was a curious mind that will not accept simple explanations. I've been an Atheist all my life, I have committed mad crimes, fucked up things in my life that were good, and generally fumbled my way through life until about 25 because hey, I've never done this shit before. Then I grew up and now I give back twice what I took for my own. BECAUSE I FELT LIKE SHIT INSIDE, not because of fear, or esprit de corps, or because some judge ordered me to. If you need a book to feel morality, then damn...

And if I'm wrong I'll shoot dice with God for my soul
(Better odds)


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

I can tell you are an atheist.

You don't use ... "if, "maybe", or "possibly" every 6th word in your sentences.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 13, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> I can tell you are an atheist.
> 
> You don't use ... "if, "maybe", or "possibly" every 6th word in your sentences.


Yes, I am. And by definition, if (See! Just by mentioning the notion I have to use one of those clumsy words) this "GOD" exhists, so is it/he/her! What an ice breaker...


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 13, 2010)

G*D would obviously be....... a Hermie.....


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 13, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> G*D would obviously be....... a Hermie.....


Sure! Why not? Male and female are how WE organize species from THIS planet...How about a species with 6 sexes to prevent inbreeding? KA-CHOW!!!


----------



## Babs34 (Mar 13, 2010)

Oh please with the pride......you're both AGNOSTIC.
I know it's oh so shameful, but by your own posts you prove it. LOOK BACK.


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 14, 2010)

To me, it is the same thing. No difference...most ppl have several interpretations of what an atheist is.

I do NOT believe in a "man G*D". that's simply too preposterous to consider as probable. No secret there.... try again. 

I do have a very open mind however and leave open the probability of some "force" which started our universe. If it turns out to be the Flying Spaghetti Monster... i have no problem with that. If I never find out.... I'm fine with that also.

I'm not the one making up stories and beliefs to get through my day. 

I use my brain for that.


----------



## Dr. Greenhorn (Mar 14, 2010)

flying spaghetti monster???? LOL 

I'm hungry now!


----------



## CrackerJax (Mar 14, 2010)

He will give you meatballs if you ask nicely.

Just don't ask where they came from.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> Oh please with the pride......you're both AGNOSTIC.
> I know it's oh so shameful, but by your own posts you prove it. LOOK BACK.


Pump your brakes!

Toyota: Moving forward. Even when you don't want to.

Agnostics are open to magical....errr, spritual beings but are un-decided.

I only suggest that we may be part of a larger community...You look back at MY posts. The whole bacteria fungi screaming boo! Was that this thread? 

Sorry, I grow nice weed...

I DO know that science will discover any such thing before religion will

A being with no parents, no flaws, no flesh?

 all that, just can't buy it, Sorry.


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

Babs34 said:


> Oh please with the pride......you're both AGNOSTIC.
> I know it's oh so shameful, but by your own posts you prove it. LOOK BACK.


PICTURES, or it DIDN'T HAPPEN!


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> PICTURES, or it DIDN'T HAPPEN!


My Mom claimed to have a Polaroid with Jesus, but I never saw it...


----------



## PadawanBater (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm an agnostic atheist. It's pretty simple. I don't believe God exists, but one _could._ Is there a more honest position to hold?


----------



## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> I'm an agnostic atheist. It's pretty simple. I don't believe God exists, but one _could._ Is there a more honest position to hold?


Does this "GOD" have organs? Or does he float like a cloud?

What do YOU want him to be?

(Totally kidding)


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## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

My Water Quality Report came in! Nice, nice, nice...

(Super Side Note should be a posting option!)


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 14, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> I'm an agnostic atheist. It's pretty simple. I don't believe God exists, but one _could._ Is there a more honest position to hold?


Right there with ya...


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## Babs34 (Mar 14, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> I'm an agnostic atheist. It's pretty simple. I don't believe God exists, but one _could._ Is there a more honest position to hold?


 *That works for me.*
*It's the "honest position to hold" that troubles all of you when inquiring for further proof.*

*Your source of frustration stems from not understanding that in what way God shows Himself to me is just naturally diametric when sourcing from another.*


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## CrackerJax (Mar 14, 2010)

PadawanBater said:


> I'm an agnostic atheist. It's pretty simple. I don't believe God exists, but one _could._ Is there a more honest position to hold?


Me too Paddy, as I just posted. A creation point MAKES sense. An invisible being lording over the Earth however is quite preposterous.

RELIGION IS ALL EGO.


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## Hayduke (Mar 14, 2010)

Stoney McFried said:


>


AHHHHaHHHHHHHHHHHH...yay this is the body of christ...put it in your mouth.

Is this what they mean by "having a relationship with christ"?...or is this just a catholic thing?



Babs34 said:


> *T*
> *God shows Himself to me is just naturally diametric when sourcing from another.*


What the hell does this mean??? Are you writing this from the Bat Cave, or the League of Justice?

Just because you see beauty...DOES NOT mean you are seeing some all powerful being!!!! A chainsaw should not overpower a supreme being.


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## Babs34 (Mar 14, 2010)

Hayduke said:


> AHHHHaHHHHHHHHHHHH...yay this is the body of christ...put it in your mouth.
> 
> Is this what they mean by "having a relationship with christ"?...or is this just a catholic thing?
> 
> ...


 .....that was just way too dramatic to even attempt to address with dialogue.

The "power" HAS been proven to me.
Merely witnessing beauty does not stand as my reasoning for belief.

.....on that note, I'm going to go hike a mountain and witness some beauty.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Me too Paddy, as I just posted. A creation point MAKES sense. An invisible being lording over the Earth however is quite preposterous.
> 
> RELIGION IS ALL EGO.


You really think creationism makes sense? I don't feel the logic, but agree that a poltergeist spying on us is definitely ludicrous


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## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

Stoney McFried said:


> When he's having sex, does he yell,"JESUS IS COMING! JESUS IS COMING!"


Or does he shout, "Oh, GOD!"? ROFLMFAO....

And when he shows up, he finds out cannabis is suddenly "BAD"?

And how will he clothe himself?

Walmart?

Saks Fifth Avenue?

If you do believe in god, pray that Jesus brings some F1 Seeds bosting 90% THC!

For us atheists who are left behind so we can grow for the demons...LOL


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## CrackerJax (Mar 14, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> You really think creationism makes sense? I don't feel the logic, but agree that a poltergeist spying on us is definitely ludicrous


Creationism is strictly an ego based anthropomorphic perspective.

I'm talking about an Earth neutral entity/ No favorites.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Creationism is strictly an ego based anthropomorphic perspective.
> 
> I'm talking about an Earth neutral entity/ No favorites.


I guess the real question is HOW this neutral thing created us...

Do you believe we were designed, Etc.

Or something more chaotic, like we are a pile of moldy cheese pizza on some other entity's floor? This of course would support Darwin's Theory of Evolution.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 14, 2010)

The real question is does such an entity act through will? Or automatically without volition? To pose the ego question, is the entity self-aware?


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## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> The real question is does such an entity act through will? Or automatically without volition? To pose the ego question, is the entity self-aware?


Or is the entity aware of our existence?

Nice.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm so lit.

Can we humble ourselves enough to consider that we may have an accidental existence?


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## CrackerJax (Mar 14, 2010)

That is the overwhelming probability.


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## Hayduke (Mar 14, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> You really think creationism makes sense? I don't feel the logic, but agree that a poltergeist spying on us is definitely ludicrous


EVIL SANTA!

And what's so bad about being the evolution of apes?? It seems so obvious


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## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

Hayduke said:


> EVIL SANTA!
> 
> And what's so bad about being the evolution of apes?? It seems so obvious


I accept the Theory of Evolution, and yes, it is quite obvious.


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## Hayduke (Mar 14, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> I accept the Theory of Evolution, and yes, it is quite obvious.


I was afraid my ape comment might be thought to be directed towards afrawfraw...it was not meant to be...just a general comment


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 14, 2010)

I accept the theory of evolution to an extent... 

i'm just not sure we came from apes


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## CrackerJax (Mar 14, 2010)

Certain types of ppl cannot accept being related to Primates. 

It is in keeping with the idea that man stands alone and is specially made.... in the image of G*D. 


If evolution is correct, the Christians must either accept that man is NOT made in the image of G*D, .... OR ... they must accept that G*D looks like the man on the far left.

It is much better for them to simply deny evolution, rather than give up the superiority complex.







^^^^^

G*D


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## mindphuk (Mar 14, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> I accept the theory of evolution to an extent...
> 
> i'm just not sure we came from apes


We didn't come from apes, we are apes. We share a common ancestor with modern non-human primates.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 14, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> Certain types of ppl cannot accept being related to Primates.
> 
> It is in keeping with the idea that man stands alone and is specially made.... in the image of G*D.
> 
> ...


Well put, CJ.


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## Dr. Greenhorn (Mar 15, 2010)

[youtube]R71FWFE1FpA&feature=related[/youtube]


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## CrackerJax (Mar 15, 2010)

Heheheh, maybe..... maybe....they learned that from US!


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## Katatawnic (Mar 15, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> We didn't come from apes, we are apes. We share a common ancestor with modern non-human primates.


Right!  Thanks for clarifying. I get so sick of people insisting that we didn't "come from apes"... well duh, that's because we didn't!  We're simply very closely related; kinda like having cousins several times removed.



CrackerJax said:


> Heheheh, maybe..... maybe....they learned that from US!


Maybe???


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## shnkrmn (Mar 15, 2010)

Apes didn't come from apes either.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 15, 2010)

We all come from my Uncle Doug.... he's a real dog.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 15, 2010)

Katatawnic said:


> Right!  Thanks for clarifying. I get so sick of people insisting that we didn't "come from apes"... well duh, that's because we didn't!  We're simply very closely related; kinda like having cousins several times removed.


I can agree with that


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## Drunkinop420 (Mar 15, 2010)

I think the last one will spark a few comments


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## Drunkinop420 (Mar 15, 2010)

I think the last one will spark a few comments

View attachment 747417

View attachment 747418

View attachment 747419

View attachment 747420



OOPs double post....


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## PadawanBater (Mar 15, 2010)

Drunkinop420 said:


> I think the last one will spark a few comments
> 
> View attachment 747417
> 
> ...


That first one's full of WIN! I'd wear that on a tshirt!


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## Swamp Fox (Mar 15, 2010)

I believe the reward for believing is much greater than not believing. It's so much more beautiful knowing god and Truth!! The truth is real. There is one Truth.
Praise God.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 15, 2010)

Swamp Fox said:


> I believe the reward for believing is much greater than not believing. It's so much more beautiful knowing god and Truth!! The truth is real. There is one Truth.
> Praise God.


You can't tell me what's going to happen in five minutes... yet you can tell me what happens when we die...

puuhhh pleeease


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## afrawfraw (Mar 15, 2010)

Swamp Fox said:


> I believe the reward for believing is much greater than not believing. It's so much more beautiful knowing god and Truth!! The truth is real. There is one Truth.
> Praise God.


Better to NOT believe than to MAKE believe

Yes, ignorance is bliss.

Just like the Cypherites. (Matrix reference)


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## afrawfraw (Mar 15, 2010)

Swamp Fox said:


> I believe the reward for believing is much greater than not believing. It's so much more beautiful knowing god and Truth!! The truth is real. There is one Truth.
> Praise God.


1) The Earth is round.
2) Our atmosphere contains NITROGEN.
3) There is a GOD.

Please circle the "One Truth"! LMAO


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## CrackerJax (Mar 15, 2010)

Swamp Fox said:


> I believe the reward for believing is much greater than not believing. It's so much more beautiful knowing god and Truth!! The truth is real. There is one Truth.
> Praise God.


Truly, to be accurate.... replace the word truth with myth. Myth isn't a dirty word by the way. Each religion claims to be the one truth, and as everyone can gather, that is not possible. There in lies a crisis. Now of course the knee jerk reaction is to say... oh.. I KNOW mine is the right one. But if you honestly think about it, you know that isn't possible.

Just be honest....


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## afrawfraw (Mar 15, 2010)

Place the yellow face mask on your mouth and nose and breath normally. Please assist yourself first, followed by children or any one else needing assistance...


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 15, 2010)

I like how we all bash on the random christian that steps foot in the door 

Take that


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## CrackerJax (Mar 15, 2010)

Yah well, posting in a way that shows he clearly doesn't understand evolution and then says he used to preach about it.... c'mon. 

How can you accept or reject something without bothering to know something about it. His flaws were glaring.... and basic.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 15, 2010)

You think it was a random troll? He only has 3 posts...
o well, hope he does some research and gets his head outa the sand..


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## CrackerJax (Mar 15, 2010)

I didn't notice his post count to be fair.... it was the content which jumped out at me.

It's an alias for sure.... no one starts out on these threads.


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## Hayduke (Mar 16, 2010)

Swamp Fox said:


> Praise God.


And pass the ammunition!


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## PadawanBater (Mar 16, 2010)

[youtube]Db4i-IZGpCY[/youtube]

No, this isn't me, but this guy's got some pretty accurate opinions, take a look.


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## jfgordon1 (Mar 16, 2010)

Are you sure this isn't you, pad? Are those bongs in the background?


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## PadawanBater (Mar 16, 2010)

lol nah, but a few of his vids I've noticed I've had extremely similar thoughts, like creepy similar... (go figure he tokes I should tell him about this forum)


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## OregonMeds (Mar 17, 2010)

If you talk to him, suggest he use the masturbating monkey video above as the background while he talks. 
No disrespect, I'm on his side as an athiest but his video is a little boring so while it was playing I was scrolling away and started that monkey up and boy oh boy is that a magical combination.


Trying to talk sense into people goes hand in hand with masturbating monkeys apparently, try it.


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## Hayduke (Mar 17, 2010)

jfgordon1 said:


> Are you sure this isn't you, pad? Are those bongs in the background?


And the v-tower/extreme? on the shelf and the blue hanging bud dryer being used as a clothes hamper!...I would say he grows too!

But yeah I made it through about 2 min...should have tried the monkey...spanking his lil' monkey at the same time!


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## Drunkinop420 (Mar 18, 2010)




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## Drunkinop420 (Mar 18, 2010)

oops second one didnt work and I found another.



View attachment 751139


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## Drunkinop420 (Mar 18, 2010)

dammmm.... still didnt get that one to work... any ways.... it says "Mary is only a virgin if you don't count Anal"


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## Katatawnic (Apr 2, 2010)

*Happy Easter!!!*


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## OregonMeds (Apr 2, 2010)

The jehova witnesses just knocked on my door, first thing they say is we saw your no soliciting sign but... We're not selling anything.
 Sounds like a joke but 100% real.

Oh god help me.
See if you can pick the significance out of this song.


[Youtube]uqzYCJgc0q0[/Youtube]


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## OregonMeds (Apr 2, 2010)

Made me want to go off on them:
http://soundcloud.com/audio-driven/alpha-omega-roaring-lion-audio-driven-vocal-mix

http://soundcloud.com/audio-driven/alpha-omega-roaring-lion-audio-driven-live-dub-mix


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## KaleoXxX (Apr 2, 2010)

my neighbor/landlady keeps putting a sign in my front yard that says "come and celebrate easter with us at *such-and-such* curch this sunday". im an atheist and have no plans to celebrate easter OR go to church. i dont care if or when gods son came back to life.

ive moved her friggin sign back into her yard 3 times over 2 days and she keeps moving it back. well i came home today and saw it was back so i took it down, crumpled it best i could and threw it out. if i see this sign again, or if she gets a new one im gonna bitch her out. chances are there will be another sign in my yard by morning


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## OregonMeds (Apr 2, 2010)

Good luck with bitching out your landlady, that's bound to go really well for you either way. 
[Youtube]fEBQQToGeX4[/Youtube]


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## Hayduke (Apr 3, 2010)

KaleoXxX said:


> my neighbor/landlady keeps putting a sign in my front yard that says "come and celebrate easter with us at *such-and-such* curch this sunday". im an atheist and have no plans to celebrate easter OR go to church. i dont care if or when gods son came back to life.
> 
> ive moved her friggin sign back into her yard 3 times over 2 days and she keeps moving it back. well i came home today and saw it was back so i took it down, crumpled it best i could and threw it out. if i see this sign again, or if she gets a new one im gonna bitch her out. chances are there will be another sign in my yard by morning


Replace the sign with a crucified stuffed bunny!


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## Katatawnic (Apr 3, 2010)

KaleoXxX said:


> my neighbor/landlady keeps putting a sign in my front yard that says "come and celebrate easter with us at *such-and-such* curch this sunday". im an atheist and have no plans to celebrate easter OR go to church. i dont care if or when gods son came back to life.
> 
> ive moved her friggin sign back into her yard 3 times over 2 days and she keeps moving it back. well i came home today and saw it was back so i took it down, crumpled it best i could and threw it out. if i see this sign again, or if she gets a new one im gonna bitch her out. chances are there will be another sign in my yard by morning


She is infringing on your rights as a paying tenant. Just because she owns the property doesn't give her the right to even *enter* your property without proper notice (barring emergencies such as gas or plumbing lines being blown or down, etc.), much less placing things on your property without your permission.

I wouldn't recommend bitching her out, though.  Even though she's "in the wrong" here, she could easily find some way to kick you out... there's almost always some legal reason to be found, if one looks hard enough.

However, you can politely remind her of your right to Quiet Enjoyment of the property for which you pay rent, as Quiet Enjoyment is what your rent is buying; that's essentially what your contract is.


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 3, 2010)

lol just keep doing funny shit (like crumpling the sign!) and wait her out! lmfao


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## OregonMeds (Apr 4, 2010)

Crumple the sign then rub poison ivy all over it.


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## growwwww (Apr 4, 2010)

Chick near my house leaves church signs on teh bustop massive ones with really fucking weird questions and she waits there and tries to convert everyone. She knows me now as the locall athiest coz i always logic slap her arguments big style. And rip her posters off.

To be honest i prefer the one of katie Price already up


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## olylifter420 (Dec 27, 2011)

So was that chick hot or sexy?

Like the vintage maid from the show "american horror".


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## Padawanbater2 (May 12, 2012)

Relevant bump


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## tyler.durden (May 13, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Relevant bump


The Atheist Bump. Developed right after The Hustle, but didn't gain the same popularity


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## Heisenberg (May 13, 2012)




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## tyler.durden (May 13, 2012)

^^ *Like a Lot*


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## Zaehet Strife (May 14, 2012)

I feel sorry that so many are so afraid of death.... they find the psychological need to tell themselves that they will exist for all of eternity.


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## Doer (May 14, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I feel sorry that so many are so afraid of death.... they find the psychological need to tell themselves that they will exist for all of eternity.


It depends what the meaning of IS, is. What does exist mean? For me, Eternity is NOW. Maybe you mean infinity?


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## Zaehet Strife (May 14, 2012)

^whatever word that is used to describe forever, infinity might be a better word to use than eternity.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (May 14, 2012)

I wonder about an infinite instant or an unending moment for the mind of a person at death,It is well established the brain dies and is no longer alive with the rest of the body at death,but do we really know what happens to the consciousness upon death? dose it go somewhere or is it just one big stretched out lucid instant, would your state of emotion or mind hold influence or significance over the state of the deceased persons infinity.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 14, 2012)

Say you get hit in the head really REALLY hard in a certain spot, and you lose the ability to make conscious decisions about motor skills. It seems as if the brain is the organic machine that allows concsciousness to take form, and when the brain is damaged or dies, so does the concsciousness. Why would concsciousness be any different from anything else in the universe? 

But i don't really know... i can't really be certain of anything, it just seems most reasonable to me, even if i don't nessisarily like the idea.


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## newbyy (Sep 2, 2012)

well being an Atheist is the most proudest thing i have ever done in my life. i do not care what others think about me or my attitude. but i know that i am damn right and i enjoy it.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 2, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I feel sorry that so many are so afraid of death.... they find the psychological need to tell themselves that they will exist for all of eternity.


I didn't have that psychological need as a child. I saw death around me (pets and such).. Oh well. They had a good run you know? It wasn't until I was tricked into believing I was immortal (lol) that I felt the fear of death.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 2, 2012)

And how did I miss this thread? Crazy..


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 3, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> And how did I miss this thread? Crazy..


I made this thread with my first account waaaay back in the day on my birthday, probably the most rep I've earned from a single thread my entire history here, I wish we had likes back then just to see how many I'd of gotten..


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## tyler.durden (Oct 3, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I made this thread with my first account waaaay back in the day on my birthday, probably the most rep I've earned from a single thread my entire history here, I wish we had likes back then just to see how many I'd of gotten..



One BILLION Likes!


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