# Things to Know About Lighting



## roosterfish (Mar 16, 2007)

ive just changed to 250 wats of them nlite cfls red and perple wud love to know if anyone cud fill me in on any ifo about um


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## mogie (Mar 16, 2007)

Contributed by: removed user 08/18/04 
submitted: July 6, 2003 

This is a compilation of basic information on fluorescent lighting that I have gathered over a period of several months. 







artwork provided by: ReSoNiC420 

*What is a fluorescent light?* 
A fluorescent light is made up of a glass tube coated with phosphor, which is filled with a mixture of gases. When electrical current is applied, it "excites" the gases, causing the tube to glow brightly. ie: to "fluores". 

*Why do  fluorescent lights have different colors?* 
The tubing is coated with phosphor, which will determine the color of the bulb. 







*What diameters of fluorescent tubes are available?*These are the most widely used diameter fluorescent tube size is T-5, T-8 T-10, T-12. Bulb sizes (meaning diameters) vary from .25 up to 1.5 inch, the larger in diameter the larger the fluorescent. 

*What length is most used?* 
There is a wide variety of lengths from 6 to 96 inch, the most widely used is a 48 inch fixture. 

*What wattage is there to use?* 
Fluorescents come in a wide range of watts any where from 4 to 214 watts that I have found. 








*Why does my bulb flicker?* 
Fluorescent tubes are rated by hours, these hours vary by the manufacture, the most common rated hours are from 6000-22000 hrs. The bulb flickering can also be caused by a poorly seated tube (poor receptacle contacts), a ballast or starter going bad or a tube wearing out such as shown in the photograph. 

*How do I dispose of these lights when they are broke?* 
Although commercially generated fluorescent lights are required by law, to be handled separately from general trash. Residents are allowed to dispose of them with the rest of their household garbage. 

*Where can I purchase fluorescent tubes, and how much do they cost?* 
Fluorescents can be purchased at all home improvement centers, hardware stores, and most pet supply stores or you can go to internet sites such as  http://www.1000bulbs.com/. The cost may vary depending were you reside, but the typical cost is a few dollar's for a pack of two bulbs. 



*Who manufactures these lights?* 
These are the most reliable companies on the market today: Sylvania, Westinghouse, General Electric. 

*What are lumens?* 
Lumens are the unit of measure that state the amount of light output produced by a light source. The higher the lumens, the greater the light output. The standard fluorescent tube should produce at least (3000-3300) lumens. 

*How can I optimize the light output?* 
You can help reflect the light out of each tube, by using metal foil tape as a reflector, attached directly to the tube as shown in this faq. click here Using clear plastic safety sleeves over the fluorescent tubes allows you to recycle the metal foil reflective tape. 


 


*What is a Kelvin scale?* 
One way light is measured is on a Kelvin scale. A Kelvin scale expresses the exact color the bulb emits. Bulbs in the range of 2700 to 6500 on a Kelvin scale is ideal for growing marijuana. Plants respond not only to the quantity of light, but also the quality. 
* artwork provided by: ReSoNiC420 (click chart to enlarge) 







*What color spectrums are available in fluorescent bulbs?* 
Fluorescent bulbs have the most range of spectrums than any other bulb. The spectrum comes in various spectrums, determined by the type of phosphor with which the bulb is coated. The following fluorescent types are as listed, along with what they may accomplish for you. 

Full spectrum fluorescent bulbs have all the colors of the Kelvin scale. This bulb is good for vegetation stage. Note: This spectrum fluorescent is used in hospitals nationwide in helping people with "depression". 

Wide spectrum fluorescent bulbs will restrict development of side branching, helps plants mature faster. This fluorescent is high in the red, orange and yellow color range. In fact, this fluorescent is the highest than all other fluorescent bulbs. As a matter of fact, this fluorescent is much like an HPS color range, which makes it the best all around choice for flowering stage. 

Daylight spectrum fluorescent bulbs are very high (if not the highest) in the blue range on the Kelvin scale. This fluorescent promotes an arctic blue look. I suggest this fluorescent during vegetation stage. 

Cool spectrum fluorescent bulbs will promote multiple side growth, nice green foliage. This fluorescent is high in the blue range, giving off a bright white appearance. I suggest this fluorescent for vegetation stage. 

Warm spectrum fluorescent, will promote extra thick stems and branches, and will give you about 5% denser buds than other spectrums. This fluorescent is high in the red range on the Kelvin scale. 

In the old school of fluorescent growing, an even mix of warm white and cool white tubes has been proven to be the best combination of light spectrums to use for flowering stage. If wide spectrum bulbs are unavailable in your area, then this is the combo to use. 









*Do fluorescent tubes need air circulation?* Fluorescent tubes do get warm, but not if they have adequate air circulation. A simple fan blowing over the fixtures as shown, will help a great deal to cool the tubes. 
If its done properly, any stray foliage that comes in contact with the tubes will not be harmed.


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## roosterfish (Mar 16, 2007)

here then is this true............*What is Lumen output of these lamps ? 
*Though given, it is irrelevent ! Lumens are for Humans not plants ! Lumens measure how we see light. Our eyes prefer green light. Green light has the most Lumens, Red and Blue the least. Most fluorescent lamps are made to look bright for humans by adding huge spikes of greeny yellow light. 
Lumens only measure how BRIGHT the light appears to us.
Lumens cannot measure light useful to plants - *PUR*

**What is the Kelvin colour temperature of these lamps ?*
The Red and Blue lamps DO have a Kelvin colour specification, but the PURple&#8482; does not. 
The Kelvin color simply describes to which temperature a block of Carbon must be heated in order to match the apparent colour of the lamp.
It does not measure the Quantity OR Quality of the light for growing plants.
PURple&#8482; does not appear in the Kelvin scale as it is a mix of TWO colours.

*What is the CRI ?*
CRI allows comparison between different lamps ability to render color, It measures how much the Red and Green and Blue reflected light, looks RIGHT to our eyes.
It does not measure the Quantity or Quality of light useful to plants - *PUR*


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## roosterfish (Mar 16, 2007)

want to know theses any gud........... 

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans Serif][SIZE=+1]*Control the shape and growth of your plants with light - Photoponics.* [/SIZE][/FONT]​Introducing *Nlite&#8482;* - a range of Quality Fluorescent lamps designed for PLANTS (also perfect for aquaria and reptiles).

Each lamp has choice of 3 colours :- *Blue* and* Red* and *PURple&#8482;*.














[SIZE=+1]*PURple&#8482; ?* YES. Introducing the Nlite&#8482; *PURple&#8482;[/SIZE]*

[SIZE=+1]*PUR *stands for *P*hotosynthetically _*U*seful_ *R*adiation.[/SIZE] 

Humans are most sensitive to green light (green curve below). Wide spectrum light with lots of green appears to us as white.
Plants use a part of the sun's spectral range to grow. This is known as the _*PLANT ACTION SPECTRUM. *(_yellow curve) 





Light energy in this range is measured as *PAR* - *P*hotosynthetically _*A*ctive _*R*adiation.
Plants look green because they reflect most green light, and absorb most red and blue.
Plants therefore respond more to light from the RED and BLUE ends of the plant action spectrum.
*PURple* lamps have this ideal spectrum shaped the way plants "see" the light. (white curve) ( a little spike of green is left to allow US to see plants lit by* PURple*) 

[SIZE=+1]*PUR* is the amount of the *PAR* that the plants use _*efficiently*._ [/SIZE]

*Nlite&#8482;* lamps are made in 3 *PUR* colours. Plants change their growth response to different levels of these *PUR* colours :- 

*PURple* - The Ultimate *100&#37; PUR.* Purple is perfect for all stages of plant growth, germination, root development, tuber and bulb formation and gives lots of internodal growth, and budsites. Great for orchids, cacti, ethnobotanicals, coral, sea plants etc. A small amount of NEAR UV ensures good production of essential oils - Great for Basil and other aromatic herbs.
*BLUE. *stimulates chlorophyll production more than any other colour, encouraging thick leaves, strong stems and compact vegatitive and leafy growth, keeps internodes close. Great for seedlings and cuttings. Perfect for plants cropped before flowering stage, such as lettuce and cress. With only blue light your plants stay short, and maturity takes much longer
*RED* encouages maturation of fruit and flowers towards the end of growth cycle. Use exclusively for the finishing period to maximise your fruit or flower yields. Perfect for flowers, peppers, and tomatoes. Too much red and no blue early on will S...t......r....e.......t.....c....h... your plants and increase internode distance.
_(Blue and Red Nlites_&#8482;_ are available __here)_
(By contrast HPS lamps give out 100% *PAR*, but only 33% *PUR* ! mostly they give out green and yellow and harmful infra red)

We recommend greater than 50 watts of *Nlite*&#8482;per 30cm x 30cm (square foot) of horizontal canopy. Light distance can be as little as 3cm, the closer the better.



All *Nlites*&#8482; are *T5HO !* Thats 48% more light than standard *T5.*
*Nlite*&#8482; Fluorescents have these Features and Benefits:- 

Low Power Operation , thus saving costs and earth resources
Low working temperature allowing more light closer to your plants because of massive heat reduction.

200W professional versions use separate ballasts to massively increase control over infra-red radiation (damages all plants), heat build-up, safety and humidity problems.
Seperate ballasts reduce future Economical and Environmental costs, only replacement lamps are needed. This significanly reduces replacement costs in subsequent grow cycles.
Separate ballasts increase light output, reduce electricity use. and run silently

Plastic shell is made of recycled material.
Reliable.
*6 MONTH GUARANTEE* against manufacturing defects.
Best Quality well engineered PLANT fluorescent lamps.
Compatible with ordinary E40 screw lighting fixture.

*FAQS*
*What is Lumen output of these lamps ? *
Though given, it is irrelevent ! Lumens are for Humans not plants ! Lumens measure how we see light. Our eyes prefer green light. Green light has the most Lumens, Red and Blue the least. Most fluorescent lamps are made to look bright for humans by adding huge spikes of greeny yellow light. 
Lumens only measure how BRIGHT the light appears to us.
Lumens cannot measure light useful to plants - *PUR*

**What is the Kelvin colour temperature of these lamps ?*
The Red and Blue lamps DO have a Kelvin colour specification, but the PURple&#8482; does not. 
The Kelvin color simply describes to which temperature a block of Carbon must be heated in order to match the apparent colour of the lamp.
It does not measure the Quantity OR Quality of the light for growing plants.
PURple&#8482; does not appear in the Kelvin scale as it is a mix of TWO colours.

*What is the CRI ?*
CRI allows comparison between different lamps ability to render color, It measures how much the Red and Green and Blue reflected light, looks RIGHT to our eyes.
It does not measure the Quantity or Quality of light useful to plants - *PUR*


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## sevenlas (Mar 26, 2007)

anyone has experience with these NLITEs...and PURple...


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## AuntieSweetLeaf (May 30, 2007)

these are hands down, the most informative posts I have ever run across on lighting, CFL in particular. thanx.


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## 1stymer (Jul 4, 2007)

you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


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## LocoMonkey (Jul 4, 2007)

Does anyone know where you can buy these in the US?


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## BCENVY (Jul 5, 2007)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.

HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.

BESIDES IT'S JUST FAWKING WRONG TO STEAL AND ALMOST AS WRONG TO CONDONE OR SUGGEST IT. BAD FORM MY FRIEND, BAD FORM!!!!!!

and on a more personal note...thanks, it's people like you that cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars a year replacing crap I find stolen, you know we can't work when you steal our stuff?!!?!?! Oh and those lights, that's called EGRESS LIGHTING, it's sole purpose is so we don't trip and kill ourselves at 5am when the fawking sun isn't even up yet. And when it's not in place OSHA comes and shuts down our job site because we are then in violation of federally mandated construction safety laws!!! Makes me sick when I have to be woken up by my Foreman because someone stole from our job site!!!!

YOU WANNA GROW POT FINE...DON'T STEAL FROM HARDWORKING PEOPLE TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BCENVY (Jul 5, 2007)

LocoMonkey said:


> Does anyone know where you can buy these in the US?


Find your local major electrical company (like one's that do large comercial jobs) find their suppliers (their suppliers usually sell to the public, just not at our discounted rate)

**EDIT**
You can find this item legally for under $200 on amazon, under "home improvement" I found it by doing a google search for "metal halide wobble light"
and if you are really interested they come in a 100w and 175w version. HTH
**END EDIT**

But honestly if you are going to be honest and pay for it, your money is far better spent on the proper ballast and reflective hood. Those lights are designed to light hallways, not the most efficient route of MH lighting if you are growing plants. 

But hey, I guess it works great if you want to take that other guys suggestion and steal it...ya know I mean free crap always works best I guess, I dunno I just hope you don't steal your supplies from hard working american men, who put in 8 hours of hard work to build America 5 days a week!!


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## Cidly (Jul 6, 2007)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


Dont steal the light... go buy one. How would you like it if someone stole your shit? Thats like the other post on here where a newbie asks where the best place is to steal weed... cmon man. we are a group of people trying to help eachother and you want to steal someones stuff. Got to another forum on stealing... dont bring that here.


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## RaoulDuke (Jul 31, 2007)

I just joined tonight. Just what I had been searching for. You are some informative mother-fuckers, very wise smokers the likes of which I have never came across beforehand. My germinated seed broke soil today, I have it directly under a daylight 100w equivalent; 27w, pushing 1300 lumens and 5500k for the low price of $6.97. Once I am ready to triple its size I will most likely go back to Home Depot for the 150w soft white for flowering stage. Depending on size I might devise another set-up with more fluorescent bulbs. Came across striped seed out of kill sack. Stoked to say the least.


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## Mjoestic (Aug 6, 2007)

i got a small closet air in air out is ok the temp during light on hours are 85F lights off 75F everything is going well i took my mother plants off 18/6 and pushed them to bud 12/12 i just got a hydro system built and will start from seeds . i got a small 150watt Hps light flowring my mothers now and seedlings under fluro in rw blocks my question is how close should i keep my HPS light to my mother plant while flowering and when i swittch it to my hydro unit can i use the same distance any info helpful i use to use all fluros now starting hps but small wattage for small 1-3 plants any help thanks..


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## LURP (Aug 7, 2007)

I guess the spirit of getting high and being cool has been replaced with something darker and sleazier.


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## i2ain2t (Aug 10, 2007)

Which light is better?

430w Sun Agro
or 
430w Hortilux

Please, I need someone's opinion!


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## galwaysman (Aug 15, 2007)

how do i get my grow room warmed up? i have a 150 watt fluro light init!?? does not seem to be warm enugh?


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## bobb (Aug 28, 2007)

are t5ho as good as hps bulbs for flowering


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## big dog (Aug 30, 2007)

can you use those metal halides they sell at home depot for street lights


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## smokey69 (Aug 30, 2007)

Hi my freinds!!
I have a qvestion abot the light from the begining to the end..
How many hours of lights is the best for the plant from the begining,
and when do a change season?? and to how many hours??
And when the plant is flowering how much light dos it need then??
Tanks for helping, if you can!! mvh smokey69


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## vince420 (Aug 31, 2007)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


 
is this a plants leafs droopy beacuse to much heat? whats wrong with it?


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## BCENVY (Sep 1, 2007)

vince420 said:


> is this a plants leafs droopy beacuse to much heat? whats wrong with it?


 
if you are asking about the plant you posted two pictures of, it appears nothing is wrong with them...they are green and healthy.

Droopy leaves is usually caused by overwatering....I believe...someone with a bit more experience than my 1 year of growing can confirm or deny this however.


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## saka (Sep 11, 2007)

hi ,i am the new grower!I have a small wardrobe growing box with 400wHPS lamp for phase 2 and luminiscent lamp 25 W=250 light sourse for phase 1 .I that good lights systems.Please help me becouse this is my firs grow and i dont want my plant DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!thx in advanse weed people


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## alan82 (Sep 19, 2007)

website is brill good work


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## Skyfish (Sep 26, 2007)

Great post very informative 
i'm gonna get me one of them purple ones
thanks for all your info


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## vince420 (Sep 27, 2007)

hey do you think i could take my plant out from my lighting system i got 2 120 w grow-lux lights one is with a metal hald and the other isnt. i also have a fan and my plant is about 3 months and 3 weeks old. i going down to the coast to visit my sister and theres no one to take care of my plant do you think i could just put my plant on the window seal for 4 days, im leaving on firday morning and coming back on monday morning, is this posible ?


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## RocklandDale (Oct 4, 2007)

Dont steel you cheap ass's, do like I do and scour craigs list for good deals then pay for them like a MAN.
Rocks MOTTO 
"the only good theif is a dead theif"
Rock


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## Mr.Dubi (Oct 11, 2007)

hey this is my first time growing and i really need some help i bassicly have a crap setup in my cuboard and im using a ordinary light bulb for now coz i cant afford a proper one but i need to know if the growlux 400 watt sodium light will do me for the whole stage? and another thing is my three week old blue mystic is having a 2 day period were there is rapid growth and a 2 week period of what appears to be none please help


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## nathan2022001 (Oct 13, 2007)

Hey guys, i need someones help 

Im a "noob", im going to attempt to grow a crop, and basically i want to know what would happend if i had only about 2400 Lumens per sq ft?

Regards,
Nathan.


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## herballuvmonkey (Oct 15, 2007)

if u dont have enuf lights ur plants will stretch to get more lite and they will be wispy. lite ,water and nutrients (i.e. food) are the 3 most important things u have to worry about when ur first growing. so spend the extra $$$ for the lites use good water and keep the nutrients in the right ratio to start then u can get to the p.h., heat co2 and other factors u need to learn to control.


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## turkster (Oct 27, 2007)

im a new-jack as well, but i did the right thing, 600W HPS cooled hood, Dig. ballets, for my closet of 3wX6dX7h,,im thinking i should be coverd with that,,so far in Veg 2 months along they look GREAT.....

Turkster..


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## Slam (Nov 4, 2007)

Great Guide!


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## FlipAPenny (Nov 4, 2007)

I think it's funny that you can tell who is posting just to see themself post.

Thanks for the report Slam!


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## Slam (Nov 4, 2007)

Lol, yeh see what you mean, but after spending half an hour reading it all would be kind of pointless not to say thanks or anything


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## FlipAPenny (Nov 4, 2007)

Slam said:


> Lol, yeh see what you mean, but after spending half an hour reading it all would be kind of pointless not to say thanks or anything


Ha Ha!!! I know exactly what you are saying there.


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## master mioda (Nov 5, 2007)

How about UVB rays spectrum lights? It is proved UVB increase THC quality and quantity. Neither CFL, MH or HPS are no UVB rays.`


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## master mioda (Nov 15, 2007)

Hi Again, I have found good article Pot potency
Just another proof of UV importance.


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## Porro365 (Dec 9, 2007)

I have just finished my first week flowering. one morning I turned the light on 40mins late and on the last day of the first week 30mins late. Have I F**Ked them.

PLEASE HELP.....


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## tahoe58 (Dec 9, 2007)

light is certainly critical....it is the energy source for the building blocks and processes to happen. feed enuf light, and supplement with sufficient water, nutes, and air....and the plant will gorw. we are currently debating the uv question here....Trichomes, THC and UVB light..... .......

****EDIT**** - in my view you have not f*cked them....they just lost some potential...temporarily....


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## Lacy (Dec 10, 2007)

*Wow tahoe. great read!!!*
*I have been researching this for a bit now. I was wondering the same thing myself.*
*I'm down to two light choices right now.*
*An 800 watt system that eks 2 bulbs at the same time. You can have either 2 MH, 2 hps or one of each. It has a built in fan but is also $400.*
*There is another 1000 watt system that takes either MH or hps but it is $350.*

*I like the idea of having 2 bulbs. More costly to run but I bet that would work nicely.*


tahoe58 said:


> light is certainly critical....it is the energy source for the building blocks and processes to happen. feed enuf light, and supplement with sufficient water, nutes, and air....and the plant will gorw. we are currently debating the uv question here....Trichomes, THC and UVB light..... .......
> 
> ****EDIT**** - in my view you have not f*cked them....they just lost some potential...temporarily....


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## tahoe58 (Dec 10, 2007)

this search for the "perfect" analog for natural sunlight is really interesting and I believe we are still not really there. the fundamental objective of the indoor growers has been yeild and speed, and not necessarily quality. that does not mean indoor stuff is crap...it just means that if you talk to oldtimers...ok, yea I'm one, the indoor weed pales in comparison to the excellent outdoor weed we had in the 70's. then add the physics of light and a couple of other principles and you start to see where the shortfall might be coming from. integral with this discussion is the debate over the "pupose" and evolution of the trichome. this has helps us better understand the how and whys? I am one that is going to try the UV thing once I get myself better organized. I also like the idea of the double HPS/MH bulb. So in my case and for my space (currently a 400W super HPS), I will be looking to put in 2 x 250W (HPS and MH) or theere is also a single dual bulb (400W or 600W) and I will likely also add the UV (either 160W or 300W).

For whatever reason, it still just is not that simple. I was looking at a bulb called the SloarMax (1000W)...and yet when you talk to other growers they say the ones they have been using are better. But it really does come down to what ur objective is. In my case, I obviously want a decent yeild, and I don't want to wait forever for it.....but my prime objective is quality of smoke.

Good luck Lacy....


Lacy said:


> *Wow tahoe. great read!!!*
> *I have been researching this for a bit now. I was wondering the same thing myself.*
> *I'm down to two light choices right now.*
> *An 800 watt system that eks 2 bulbs at the same time. You can have either 2 MH, 2 hps or one of each. It has a built in fan but is also $400.*
> ...


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## Lacy (Dec 10, 2007)

_Absolutely tahoe. I agree with you. It is sometimes difficult to get objective opinions here at times because you have those growing for profit and those growing for personal. It took me a while to distinquish the two and what intentions were behind some people's motivation but now I keep this fact in mind when inquiring. _

_When i was first introduced to this idea of having the dual system, my initial thought was that it produced less lumens so how could it be better. I'm starting to understand more each day._
_My poor plants are like "helloooooooo..we need ore lihgt in here. The system I bought last night is by sun systems not sun beam. i made it sound like a hair dryer._



tahoe58 said:


> this search for the "perfect" analog for natural sunlight is really interesting and I believe we are still not really there. the fundamental objective of the indoor growers has been yeild and speed, and not necessarily quality. that does not mean indoor stuff is crap...it just means that if you talk to oldtimers...ok, yea I'm one, the indoor weed pales in comparison to the excellent outdoor weed we had in the 70's. then add the physics of light and a couple of other principles and you start to see where the shortfall might be coming from. integral with this discussion is the debate over the "pupose" and evolution of the trichome. this has helps us better understand the how and whys? I am one that is going to try the UV thing once I get myself better organized. I also like the idea of the double HPS/MH bulb. So in my case and for my space (currently a 400W super HPS), I will be looking to put in 2 x 250W (HPS and MH) or theere is also a single dual bulb (400W or 600W) and I will likely also add the UV (either 160W or 300W).
> 
> For whatever reason, it still just is not that simple. I was looking at a bulb called the SloarMax (1000W)...and yet when you talk to other growers they say the ones they have been using are better. But it really does come down to what ur objective is. In my case, I obviously want a decent yeild, and I don't want to wait forever for it.....but my prime objective is quality of smoke.
> 
> Good luck Lacy....


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## Leijababe (Dec 10, 2007)

ok so this is all the greatest information i have read in years, but can you tell me how many hours of light the plants need. and if you had any explaination of veg stage. i know what flowering is. and how to make a mother from a plant. anything like that would be so great. thanks so much



matth82003 said:


> *Color rating*- Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum.
> 
> *How much light is needed?*
> The minimum amount of light required by marijuana plants is around 3000 lumens per square foot. However, it's not 100% accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and reflectivity of the grow box. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens/sqft, and as long as the plants do not burn, as much light can be used as you want.
> ...


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## trues (Dec 15, 2007)

i live by hps


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## SlowcalaToker (Dec 15, 2007)

Anyone have any experience with the newer LED grow lights?


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## trues (Dec 15, 2007)

led are not good at all for growin bud


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## Lacy (Dec 15, 2007)

_This is a great read. _


master mioda said:


> Hi Again, I have found good article Pot potency
> Just another proof of UV importance.


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## Lacy (Dec 15, 2007)

_My sun system 1000 swtchable MH/hps fell through. It was going to cost buddy $200 to ship it and he made a mistake when placing the ad and it quoted my only $16. I just can'y afford to pay $200 in shipping. I could buy a brand new one for that price combined._

_Now I am looking at a 400 watt system for very little and it isn't very far away to drive. I'm calling them tomorrow to see about getting it._
_I'm wondering if getting a 400 watt hps and a 400 watt MH and running them together would be close to getting a dual ballast system._

_Does anyone know? That is what I am thinking now. And at least if I get them separately, then later if I want 2 grows rooms I won't have to get more wattage._

_I have my 100 sun system coming this week so that will put my up to close to 300 watts of light. They are not looking too bad now._

_Thanks everyone _


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## Mikezxcvbnm (Dec 16, 2007)

I have a general question about yield. If I take 10 clones of AK-47 and veg. for 4 weeks with a 600 watt Metal Halide before flowering roughly how much finished product will I get. BTW I'm flowering with either a 500 or 750 HPS. What about 6 weeks ? Any info you have would be greatly appreciated


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## Puffs (Dec 18, 2007)

I've been reading alot but, I'm still confuzed... What would be the best light for veging and the best for flowering?


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## kagenical (Dec 20, 2007)

Puffs said:


> I've been reading alot but, I'm still confuzed... What would be the best light for veging and the best for flowering?


Technically, a Metal Halide (at least 50w per plant, more if you can deal with the heat) for vegging, and a HPS for flowering (same wattage recommendation)... But a HPS works for both really.


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## justsmoked (Dec 26, 2007)

kagenical said:


> Technically, a Metal Halide (at least 50w per plant, more if you can deal with the heat) for vegging, and a HPS for flowering (same wattage recommendation)... But a HPS works for both really.


ive been growing these with 650w hps through the whole grow...gonna start transition soon. i also got a florescent on the side.


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## PKNL (Jan 9, 2008)

just a simple question from what ive read and heard and experienced, a MV lamp is more efficent for lighting plants keeping the node short encuraging vegitive growth times 5 then floros ive used floros HPS and MV small town here no MH so i cant judge on that one but my question is what if any are the downsides of useing MV for veg stage,PS only on fairly mature plants no clones/seedlings


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## PKNL (Jan 9, 2008)

i got 3 plants under 3 70watt HPS . HPS is the way to go for flowering all the wayits been exactly 16 days since i started this batch and already i have nice bud formation, ive also been useing a high P low N medium K formula , i was looking over the earlyer posts about UVB and UV producing higher resin production and all , as to my preveous post the MV put out the UV so i will have further info on that after this first set is finished


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## BizarroOH! (Jan 19, 2008)

what do you guys think of using a 400 watt MH as well as a 400 watt HPS for flowering someone told me that the duel lighting was good for budding, what you you think?


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## thedoctorzoidberg (Jan 23, 2008)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


no thanks.......... stealing and growin do not go hand in hand


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## melushell (Jan 24, 2008)

trues said:


> led are not good at all for growin bud


you have any experience with that??? or you just 'know'??


LED Grow Lights.com Home Page
i am looking a lot lately into it, tough i still need to find relevant facts about the flowering stage
honestly i think it will be the future of artificial growing, NASA is already putting a lot of research into it

LED and aerogrow.....thats the future myfriends


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## evon610 (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm waiting on a 150W LED array (14Wx11) which should replace my 400W HPS with much less heat. Check out homegrownlights.com. their kits are a god deal - keeps high brightness and intensity by not spreading the LEDs out over a large area.


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## cromelf (Feb 2, 2008)

Stealing is a crime man !....lol get a job and buy one.


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## SeaMonkey Smokes (Feb 8, 2008)

I have a Q I'm on my first plant I have one 150 watt givin me 2700 lumens my plants only a week an a half old 

How long will this work HELP


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## COD4 (Feb 8, 2008)

SeaMonkey Smokes said:


> I have a Q I'm on my first plant I have one 150 watt givin me 2700 lumens my plants only a week an a half old
> 
> How long will this work HELP


 
Unless you're doing one of those SOG setups, you will want to seperate those two plants before they get roots tied up.

And is that a warm white light or a day light? Looks kinda like warm white...


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## SeaMonkey Smokes (Feb 8, 2008)

Idk why but I doesn't say anywhere on the package if it is is there any othere way to find out. The only thing it says an idk if it helps [ General Purpose ]


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## COD4 (Feb 8, 2008)

SeaMonkey Smokes said:


> Ok so I've been doing 12 on then 12 off an its growing but ur sayin I should give it more light ? ? O an PLEASE reply to the post in the { things you should know about lighting } I'm pretty sure that's what its called please look at the setup in the pic
> 
> P.s. So I just put it in dark cycle 10 min. Ago should I turn the light back on ?


If you're serious about growing a nice plant(s), you need:

a timer so your lights go on and off at the exact same time each day. You can get one at walmart for like $5 or as much as $50 depending on what you get. I just have a cheapo one for $5

And you need "daylight" bulbs. They are the ones that give off a cool blue tone of light. The warm white bulbs are for the flowering stage. During the plants first 2-3 months of life, it needs the blueish daylight bulbs. 

This is the type of bulb you need for vegatation stage: Product Information Error Page

Later, when it's time for budding, you will need to switch to either a warm white, a MH, or a MPS type light. Or put them outside, but by that time there will be more light than just 12hours so that wont work.

I'd go to the hydro store and get some fox farm soil and some grow big fertilizer too. Everyone here uses the shit including me.

And the baby plants should get 18 or more hours of light per day while in veg stage.


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## COD4 (Feb 8, 2008)

And get a small fan to to keep the plants cool, one of those rotating ones is best but w/e.

And keep the light as close as you can to the plant to keep it from streatching. Since CFL's dont get hot, you can keep them like 2" to 4" away from the plants. Closer the better.


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## A Good Keen Man (Feb 13, 2008)

Hi there ya all. Has anyone considered LED lighting? They're starting to be used for street lighting amongst other applications. The cover of High Times Dec-Jan 08 shows a suacer type arrangement that draws 90 watts equiv to 400 watt HPS setup. Must be worth some study!!

We've just got to win this war!!
More is better, much more is much better, most is best. I know, 'çause Í paid for it.


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## chrysis (Feb 20, 2008)

Is this what you are talking about, just discovered it yesterday. i have 4 -225 led panels with both red and blue mixed on the walls of my grow room, the plants that are directly in front of them seem to love them and have fan leaves that have turned sideways to catch the extra light.

I plant to take one of the panels and see if i can use it on the clones or maybe in my aerogarden which i now use to start seeds. just to see if it makes a difference if i went to an all led grow.


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## chrysis (Feb 20, 2008)

whoops, heres the link....90 Watt Super Grow UFO LED Light - eBay (item 320219397505 end time Feb-21-08 00:39:41 PST)

there is also a 300 watt one.


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## A Good Keen Man (Feb 21, 2008)

Hi there Crysis, good to see that someone is up and running with the ball. The price of the item on ebay seems to be a little steep for my likeing. And anyway, I'm sorta retired, the law bought a sudden and abrupt halt to my investigations and freebooting ways. (NZ policemen are super straight and super efficient.) (Bugger, as we say here.) Anyway, a little bit of research and tinkering should get these things out on the street for a much more acceptable price. The LEDs are not that expenceive and the control circiutry is not that complicated considering that you only want a constant light source as versus something that goes from dim to bright and back again. Do you have a pic of your panel? Did you build it yourself or was it bought?
Keep up the good work . . .
More is better, much more much better, and most is best. (Particularly when it comes to light.)
Rgds
Jo


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## chimpswin (Feb 25, 2008)

ok i have been wondering this for a long time. when you go to a large concert, you will see the stage washed with different colored lights, not the lights that move around. the non moving lights are just regular bulbs with a colored gel over them generating all the different colors on the stage. these gels are available at theatrical supply stores, from companies like rosco, gamcolor, lee filters, etc. they may be available thought pro photography shops to correct the flash's color. there are a ton of colors & intensities (how much % of light makes it from the light bulb through the filter). they make swatch samples that are free at suppliers with transmission % on a graph of the kelvin scale. i believe it is lee filters that makes a color called straw available in full cto 1/2cto and 1/4 cto that would be good at changing the spectrum of a MH light into one that resembles a hps. has anyone used a gel to change a mh spectrum to a hps spectrum?


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## chrysis (Feb 27, 2008)

If the oil from a fingerprint can make one of these bulbs explode, I think putting gel on it can only guarantee that you will be calling either the fire department or an ambulance soon afterwards. 
I wouldnt do that if i were you, maybe a glass filter or filtered lens but nothing directly touching the bulb.


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## bah (Feb 28, 2008)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't doing that simply cut out the other light rather than boost the color of the gel, to begin with?


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## CHICAGOSKUNK (Mar 10, 2008)

Ok Look I Have A Aquarium Light N A Florescent 
Stand Up Light Like For A Desk Or Sumtin But
My Plants Recently Started To Act Weird
Like The Bottom Leaves R Drying Out N Sumtimes
Da Leafs Start To Droop Down Wuts Goin On Please Anybody Help 
Its Like In A File Cabenet Box


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## Virulent Amoeba (Mar 10, 2008)

CHICAGOSKUNK said:


> Ok Look I Have A Aquarium Light N A Florescent
> Stand Up Light Like For A Desk Or Sumtin But
> My Plants Recently Started To Act Weird
> Like The Bottom Leaves R Drying Out N Sumtimes
> ...


How dry do you let the soil get between waterings?


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## jimbo123 (Mar 15, 2008)

How many CFLs/what wattage should i use for 7.5cubic feet of space. approx 4 plants


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## brandogg442200 (Mar 18, 2008)

ive heard you can bend the stem of your plant so that it will only grow as tall as you want it. Is this true? and will both male and female produce smokeable buds? also i need to know if it is good to wet the whole plant down when watering?


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## jimmyspaz (Mar 18, 2008)

chimpswin said:


> ok i have been wondering this for a long time. when you go to a large concert, you will see the stage washed with different colored lights, not the lights that move around. the non moving lights are just regular bulbs with a colored gel over them generating all the different colors on the stage. these gels are available at theatrical supply stores, from companies like rosco, gamcolor, lee filters, etc. they may be available thought pro photography shops to correct the flash's color. there are a ton of colors & intensities (how much % of light makes it from the light bulb through the filter). they make swatch samples that are free at suppliers with transmission % on a graph of the kelvin scale. i believe it is lee filters that makes a color called straw available in full cto 1/2cto and 1/4 cto that would be good at changing the spectrum of a MH light into one that resembles a hps. has anyone used a gel to change a mh spectrum to a hps spectrum?


Nah , They are just filters, and reduce lumens considerably. the most light comes from an ungelled lighting instrument.I worked in the theatre as a lighting tech and have a lot of experience with gels. Photographic gels may be a different story I don't know.


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## jimmyspaz (Mar 18, 2008)

chrysis said:


> If the oil from a fingerprint can make one of these bulbs explode, I think putting gel on it can only guarantee that you will be calling either the fire department or an ambulance soon afterwards.
> I wouldnt do that if i were you, maybe a glass filter or filtered lens but nothing directly touching the bulb.


In the theater the gels are at least 6 inches from the bulbs. Those are the bulbs you can't touch!! They can explode violently from a single spot of oily dust, I have seen it happen.


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## Enigma (Mar 18, 2008)

I'd like to point out.. if it has been missed in here.. that the T5 lamps WILL burn your plants if they come into contact.

Enigma


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## Johnnyorganic (Mar 18, 2008)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


Don't assume that because we break cannabis law, this forum is a den of thieves. You don't need a light bad enough to steal one.


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## badman2424 (Mar 22, 2008)

thanks 4 all the good light info.


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## asdfghjkl12345 (Mar 24, 2008)

i have a questionn, i live in a really hot and dry placee and my plant is not growing for sh*t, ive had it for like a week and a half and its not even and inch tall.. i leave it outside for like 10 hours of sunlight but the climate is really hot and dry so my plant is drying out i guess because its browning a little bit.. but now im putting it under a 20 watt/1125 lumens bulb like 9 inches away from the plant at night so i can reduce the hours of sunlight exposure during the day... so it wont dry out. is this a wise desicion?
or how do i keep it from drying out?


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## Enigma (Mar 24, 2008)

asdfghjkl12345 said:


> i have a questionn, i live in a really hot and dry placee and my plant is not growing for sh*t, ive had it for like a week and a half and its not even and inch tall.. i leave it outside for like 10 hours of sunlight but the climate is really hot and dry so my plant is drying out i guess because its browning a little bit.. but now im putting it under a 20 watt/1125 lumens bulb like 9 inches away from the plant at night so i can reduce the hours of sunlight exposure during the day... so it wont dry out. is this a wise desicion?
> or how do i keep it from drying out?


Keep it inside under light. It sounds like that area would kill it without some environment controls.


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## asdfghjkl12345 (Mar 24, 2008)

but do i just keep it under the 20 watt/1125 lumen bulb?
or should i get something better??


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## Enigma (Mar 24, 2008)

asdfghjkl12345 said:


> but do i just keep it under the 20 watt/1125 lumen bulb?
> or should i get something better??


T5's have been good to me. For flowering you'd want a HPS for bigger flowers.


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## Baggyslimjim (Mar 26, 2008)

I got 1900x2 lumen Fluorescents 48" t-15 bulb i use a self in a full size closet. Do i need more light? all i want is 5 females


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## DragonsBreath (Mar 27, 2008)

Every thread I read only makes me have to read and look into things more. I like the HPS since it works great for the whole life cycle.


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## Enigma (Mar 27, 2008)

Baggyslimjim said:


> I got 1900x2 lumen Fluorescents 48" t-15 bulb i use a self in a full size closet. Do i need more light? all i want is 5 females


1900? I assume that is kelvin degree reading of the light. If you are vegging use the 'blue' spectrum (6000 deg K) for better foliage and node production. The 'red' spectrum causes the plants to concentrate more on stem growth than leaves.. you want leaves.

I'm using 4 T5's ('blue' spectrum) at the moment for veg. I'm going to upgrade to 8 T5's soon. This will help when I clone the mothers.. more light = faster growth.

So if you want taller plants use 'red' lights, if you want shorter bushier plants use the 'blue' spectrum. More nodes = more places to bud.

The 48" fixture will hold 4 full-sized females comfortably.



Enigma


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## GreenCrunchies (Mar 27, 2008)

Love this thread...so informative....


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## russ8825 (Mar 28, 2008)

Got a question here. I just planted my sprouted seeds (like 7-8 seedlings) in to 16 oz cups, and i really don't have a clue about which lights to use. I'm thinking CFLs because they're inexpensive, but I don't know jack about them like how many wats, which colors ,heat or not, how many etc. Also I've been reading that you have to switch lights when it hits flowering, do you add these lights on to your current lights or or the old lights no use anymore ?


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## Enigma (Mar 28, 2008)

russ8825 said:


> Got a question here. I just planted my sprouted seeds (like 7-8 seedlings) in to 16 oz cups, and i really don't have a clue about which lights to use. I'm thinking CFLs because they're inexpensive, but I don't know jack about them like how many wats, which colors ,heat or not, how many etc. Also I've been reading that you have to switch lights when it hits flowering, do you add these lights on to your current lights or or the old lights no use anymore ?


Plants use more red light than blue light through the entire phase of life. Blue light will concentrate more on leaves, red will concentrate more on stems. There is more to this, but this is the simplified version.



CFL's can be used all the way through.

Find the bulbs that put out the most lumens per watts consumed for the most efficient.

You can use blue and red for veg and flowering. Some preffer just blue for veg and just red for flowering.. but I've seen very good results from an HPS/MH combination. Actually I think that is going to be next route for me after using just an HPS for flowering and fluoro's for veg.

Just READ READ READ.. there is TONS of information on the boards.



Enigma


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## Enigma (Mar 28, 2008)

Check this out!!!

https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/40884-buds-less-cfl-book.html


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## captnplanet (Mar 29, 2008)

has anyone done the foil tape on the backside of a cfl?


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## Enigma (Mar 29, 2008)

captnplanet said:


> has anyone done the foil tape on the backside of a cfl?


 
I don't know.. I don't think it will have any adverse affects...

I'm using T5's for veg.. I'm getting some foil tape VERY soon.. and 4 more lights.


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## Baggyslimjim (Mar 29, 2008)

no it was 1900 lumens each...
they were 2700k
i have new ones now...


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## Baggyslimjim (Mar 29, 2008)

...........


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## captnplanet (Apr 2, 2008)

Were can you find these nlites I've searched and cant find a dealer.Is there any one wHo has info


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## strictly (Apr 5, 2008)

lighting is important but i aint got no money honey. could ya get basic. what's the poor man's alternative?


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## EmtMdwestPipes (Apr 7, 2008)

How do you keep the utilities from spiking when you use the big bulbs? My wife's family is full of electricians (bonus!) and that's the one question I have before I place an order on new lights.


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 7, 2008)

strictly said:


> lighting is important but i aint got no money honey. could ya get basic. what's the poor man's alternative?


CFL's???See SeeMoreBuds' book and DVD's.


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 7, 2008)

EmtMdwestPipes said:


> How do you keep the utilities from spiking when you use the big bulbs? My wife's family is full of electricians (bonus!) and that's the one question I have before I place an order on new lights.


A 1000 watt bulb uses about the same power as one person in the household. As long as the bills are paid you should have no problem. In my experiance other things like rats, fires from poor wiring jobs and stealing power are common reasons for police activity.Can you get your electrician relatives to wire up your op?? If so, bonus!!


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## EmtMdwestPipes (Apr 7, 2008)

My brother-in-law said he'd help.....for a 'kind' price so I hope everything turns out golden green! I have a few other q's about room size (maybe another thread) but I'm only trying to grow 1-2 plants at a time.


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 7, 2008)

Sounds great!!


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## Enigma (Apr 7, 2008)

EmtMdwestPipes said:


> My brother-in-law said he'd help.....for a 'kind' price so I hope everything turns out golden green! I have a few other q's about room size (maybe another thread) but I'm only trying to grow 1-2 plants at a time.


1-2 plants at a time.. 400w HPS would do it, but I'd go 600w HPS hands down.. that could all be done in a 3x3, 2x4, 3x4 or 4x4 sq. ft. area.

High Tech Garden Supply

*600w* *HPS*, *cooltube*, electronic ballast, hangers, and *extra lamp* for under *$300*

I'm not trying to plug anything.. but that shit is a deal.


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## EmtMdwestPipes (Apr 7, 2008)

Holy crap I'm finally getting some info. Thanks peeps! 

Enigma....do you have a height recommendation for the 2x4 room? I'm either going to line my closet and use a carbon filter because it's in a safer location than my basement. I'm really paranoid about odor, actually everything but I'll start with odor and conquer that first. BUT, how high (pun intended) should the room be? I'll be able to raise and lower the lighting as necessary, I'm just trying to keep my little greenhouse...my little greenhouse.

Thanks again!!


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## Enigma (Apr 8, 2008)

EmtMdwestPipes said:


> Holy crap I'm finally getting some info. Thanks peeps!
> 
> Enigma....do you have a height recommendation for the 2x4 room? I'm either going to line my closet and use a carbon filter because it's in a safer location than my basement. I'm really paranoid about odor, actually everything but I'll start with odor and conquer that first. BUT, how high (pun intended) should the room be? I'll be able to raise and lower the lighting as necessary, I'm just trying to keep my little greenhouse...my little greenhouse.
> 
> Thanks again!!


First measure the height of the planter pots. Then give the room anywhere from 2-3 ft. for plant growth, this all depends on the method of growing (training or topping/fimming). Remember, Indica strains are usually shorter than Sativa strains.

Depending on the lamps used.. a cooltube with a 600w or 100w can be put down to about 6-12" of the canopy.. then there is the question of air circulation.

Right now I'm working with a 4x3x7 ft. area. 600w HPS & Quad 48" T5's holding mothers, clones and flowers. Highly efficient for a small area. 

You could get away with a 5-6 ft. height.

Edit: Oh, and check out my sig for some cool links.


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## cromelf (Apr 16, 2008)

Here's my ? i'm presently using a 1000hps and was wondering if i could add 1000WH to mix up the blues and orange for a bigger yield ? and i want to spred them out to give them more room.I also have a 400hps three heads are better than one ....lol


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 16, 2008)

When I added a second 1000 watter the cooling became a problem, I have to use A/C for the summer, allow for the possibility in your power usage calculations.


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## EmtMdwestPipes (Apr 16, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice RIUer's! I saw this light....they call it the LED UFO light that is supposedly equal to a 400watt HPS bulb producing very little heat and only using 90 watts of power. I know I'm new at this but that sounds like a much safer alternative to the HPS/MH bulbs----my wife is worried about the fire hazards involved....everything will be upstairs in a closet in a guest room and she's worried.


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## Alto (Apr 17, 2008)

EmtMdwestPipes said:


> Thanks for all the advice RIUer's! I saw this light....they call it the LED UFO light that is supposedly equal to a 400watt HPS bulb producing very little heat and only using 90 watts of power. I know I'm new at this but that sounds like a much safer alternative to the HPS/MH bulbs----my wife is worried about the fire hazards involved....everything will be upstairs in a closet in a guest room and she's worried.


The guy at my Hydro shop tells me that LED panels are junk.
Personally I don't know, just passing along info from a trusted source.
For 2 plants all you really need is that single 1000W (its actually enough for more plants than that!)
If you can get a MH conversion bulb for vegging you would be golden with just that one light. 
Heat would be less of an issue as would your electric bill. 
If you can, see about using GFI outlets (Ground Fault Interrupt) just tell your relative he will know.
They are the ones that you should see in your bathroom or kitchen with the little buttons on them (Test/Reset)
they will stop providing current should you get a short or something and are meant for use near H2O.
(better to not explain this to the wife as the thought of a short may cause more worry, but good your your piece of mind)
just air cool the hood using a carbon filter in the room as an intake then go from there to the hood and finally out of the room (hopefully the house)
If your electric is wired correctly you should not have much of a hazard to worry about. 
My wife worries too so my advice is trim the OP down to a manageable scale and spend more time with her and less with the kids in your Grow OP.
Does wonders.
Find time when she isn't around to tend your garden.
They will do fine all on their own for a while now and then.
If you obsess about them she could get jealous. 
Just a few tips from a guy with an anxious wife.


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 17, 2008)

I know there have been threads about those ufo style Leds on this forum , try a search. May even be in Faqs, worth checking if you are interested in those lighting fixtures. Good luck and keep us updated on your progress. Consider a journal. If I was able to post pics I would do one. Need to reinstall a program first, and must find disc( I know it's here somewhere )......
Edit- Alto posted while I was typing, I second what he says about one 1000 watter with conversion bulbs. A 600 might be enough for your space. Also he( or she) is right about a ground-fault receptacle , put one at beginning of circuit. Have fun , but don't burn down your house . That would really get the ol' lady POed!!!!


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 17, 2008)

P.S Aside to Alto,shouldn't the carbon filter go on the exhaust air, not the intake? I always assumed that the idea is to remove the odour leaving the grow room not entering it.


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## Alto (Apr 17, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> P.S Aside to Alto,shouldn't the carbon filter go on the exhaust air, not the intake? I always assumed that the idea is to *remove the odour leaving the grow room* not entering it.


thats right!
I have the carbon intake inside the grow room(IMAGE), next in line is the "in line" fan, then the "sealed" light fixture, then out of the fixture to outside the room.
I found sucking the odor thru the filter first then thru my "sealed" light fixture, then out of the room the most practical.
The Crabonair filter I have is like 16" diam. by 16" (or so) tall and I just don't have a place on the end of the exhaust line to put it where it won't be noticed.
The dryer vent style exhaust hose I'm using (4") blends in pretty well as a bathroom exhaust in the ceiling of my basement. Stealth is good.
Filter-Fan-Light-Outside seems to be used a lot.
I have another passive duct that brings fresh air into the room which is separate from the exhaust system.
It is also good to (if you are able to) place the filter near the top of your room so as to catch more heat/ Odor as heat rises.


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## jimmyspaz (Apr 17, 2008)

Oh OK I get it , Room air into filter , into light housing , out of room, that makes sense to me now, sorry about the confusion.


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## MmmmK (Apr 17, 2008)

i have a quick question. what color cfls should i use im gonna buy two and i wanna get two different colors.


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## EmtMdwestPipes (Apr 17, 2008)

I searched for the LED's but couldn't find anything....that's why I asked. I've considered a journal, I just don't know how paranoid to be, I don't exactly live in a 'friendly' state so I'm either covering my ass or fueling a split personality....I wish I could scan in my notes so you guys could see them....pages and pages. I'm just trying to get a nice amount for personal use only, I keep thinking how sad it is that I can get it everywhere but home.


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## captnplanet (Apr 20, 2008)

Does anyone know how to overdrive a ballast ?I am sure someone out there has . Happy 420! Peace pot and micro-dot!


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## captnplanet (Apr 20, 2008)

*Overdriving Fluorescent Lights*​By Jim Haworth 
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Overdriving fluorescent bulbs is a method of getting more light from each bulb than is normally obtained. It involves taking the light fixture apart and rewiring the insides. Each electronic ballast normally drives either two or four bulbs. The ballasts are then tied together in such a way that a two-bulb ballast now drives a single bulb and a four-bulb ballast drives only two bulbs, sometimes it only drives one. Usually, an extra ballast is put into the fixture and wired into the bulb circuit. For instance, if you have four bulbs in the fixture and they have a four-bulb ballast, this ballast now drives two bulbs and another four-bulb ballast is used to drive the remaining two bulbs. If the directions in this article are carefully followed, this rewiring is not dangerous and the bulbs wont blow up, they simply become brighter. The bulbs are limited by their design to draw only so much current and no more. If you double the amount of current, you wont get a bulb thats two times brighter because the efficiency drops off a bit. So even after the increased current is made available, a bulb driven by a factor of two times its normal supply, only gets 1.7 times brighter. You can do a 1x, 2x, or 3x overdrive with a four-lamp ballast, but the efficiency drops. (4x output into one bulb is only 2.4 times as bright as normal). 
Put another way; the output of the bulbs does not increase in direct ratio to the amount of power the ballast consumes. The more times you overdrive a fluorescent bulb, the less efficient it becomes, as it is starting to drift out of the bulb's optimal design parameters. 
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
The information for this article was partially gleaned from postings on forums all over the Internet. The forums included gardens (seed starting), fish/aquarium (freshwater and salt water), houseplants, pro studio photography, reptiles, electronics, and others. If you see postings here that youve seen elsewhere, keep in mind that Im just trying to bring some semblance of order out of the inherent disorder of every forum out there that deals with this subject. If you have a question about your particular application, please try some of these forums. There are people who are very knowledgeable about the process of overdriving and they are willing to help you. Many, many people have rewired their fluorescent fixtures with no explosions or house fires that I know of. There are people out there that are deathly afraid of electricity, and if you are one of them, perhaps you shouldn't rewire your lamps. If you haven't overdriven your own fixtures, please don't be a nervous nelly and post gloom and doom predictions of disaster for those who want to try this. The data took many hours to put together into a more or less readable form. Sorry theres no way to give proper credit to everyone who contributed to this huge Internet pool of information. 
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
This is a rather long article and seems to be very complicated, but really, its not bad once you get the core idea of whats involved. Dont be apprehensive. Check each step carefully and then recheck. Youll be fine! 
*Safety first! *​I must issue a warning or three. If you don't know much about working with electricity, you should read up on electrical wiring techniques. 
Dont even think about using a magnetic ballast, it wont work for overdriving fluorescent lights, and you might have a very smelly incident as the internals melt down. 
Utilizing *ODNO* (Overdriven Normal Output) fluorescent lighting technology will likely void your warranty on ballast and/or bulbs. We are not responsible for damage caused by improper use or failures due to overdriving fluorescent lights. 
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Use or install a GFCI fixture to plug your fluorescent fixture into after youve rewired it. Use a power strip with a circuit breaker on the strip if you dont have a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. This will offer a degree of protection for you, if youve made a mistake in the wiring. Always make sure a ground wire is connected to the fixture! This is for safety and it helps the lamps to start when the metal reflector is grounded. 
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Be careful if youre using this setup to power lighting for an aquarium, you know, electricity and water. Nuff said. 
*Why electronic ballasts?*​Fluorescent lights have notoriously been known for flicker and hum. This is no longer a problem with the new electronic ballasts. This is because with magnetic ballasts the fluorescent lamp actually drops out of ionization and get re-ionized 60 times a second. Electrical engineers discovered that once you speed the process up to at least 4,000 Hertz (cycles per second), the gas stays ionized (no more flicker). This is also a bit more efficient. And, since the notorious hum would now become a squeal, engineers design electronic ballast to oscillate above the range of human hearing. No more noticeable hum. 
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First, you are not rewiring the ballast. You are rewiring the outputs of the ballast (nothing internal). Electronic ballasts which operate more than one lamp often show several wiring options, so the same ballasts can be used in several configurations, thus saving the manufacturer money. What rewiring to overdrive lamps does, is cause the circuitry to see a different load drawing the current. The output transistors can do this and still be functioning within proper specifications. This is neither dangerous nor illegal; its simply the way electronic ballasts are designed. The most telling thing about the results is that, using a 2x overdrive; the ballast draws less power with one lamp than it would draw normally with 2 lamps. The two output transistors are teaming up and actually drawing less amperage than normal (with 2 lamps). 
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Put another way, when you re-arrange the output of the ballast wiring to overdrive a lamp, you are sharing the "lamp load" between the individual lamp circuits. The ballast itself is actually UNDERDRIVEN, since it is now sending LESS total current to a single lamp than it would normally be sending to two lamps. It is the lamp that gets OVERDRIVEN. The ballast is running cooler, the bulb running hotter. This does not burn out the bulb, although it's life is shortened a bit. 
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The ballasts used for overdriving are actually running below their normal capacity, sharing the duty, and drawing less than normal. I have done this with 7 different types and wattages of electronic ballasts and they ALL worked well.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
In a two-lamp fixture, overdriving (which requires a ballast that drives 2 or more lights) involves disconnecting the wires from both ends of one lamp's socket, and joining them to the wires of the remaining lamp. This results in a 32w lamp being driven to put out approximately 1.7 times as much light as normally produced. This will reduce the life of the lamp somewhat, but in the overall picture it is very economical to replace a 32w bulb-even twice as often. With fluorescent lights, over 95% of the total cost of using the bulb is the electricity, since the bulbs last so long to begin with. I used both a current meter and a light meter to compare my results. Your own eyes can DEFINITELY see the difference. 
*On the T8s and T12 bulbs, this 2-pin plug and socket are called medium bi-pin.*​<!--[if !vml]-->




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This is the way the tombstones look on the other end after the ballast is rewired on the Rapid Start system. Diagram to the left. 
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It was a pain-in-the-butt to figure out how to get the existing wires out of those push-in-and-stay-in type sockets. Do not pry the back off of the sockets. I did that once, early on, and broke the plastic socket apart doing it. I finally developed the knack of doing what I can only call a twist and wiggle technique to get the existing wires out of their slot. Although I can get most of the wires off, I still end up breaking off 10-15% of them. Since you end up with a couple of extra sockets anyhow, you can afford to mess up a few of them. As a last resort, I would have gone ahead and cut and spliced the wires if I couldnt get the wires wiggled out of the socket. Once you push that wire in, it wants to stay in. Trial and error will hopefully lead you to a useable technique.











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## Nox (Apr 21, 2008)

Quick question. I am working on a grow room design to suit my grow space. I am thinking of a fixed lighting system instead of on a pulley like I've often seen.

From reading the very first post in this thread, am I correct in understanding that it ultimatly does not matter the proximatey of the light to the plant as long as the plant is receiving around 7000-10000 lumens?

(and would a light meter tell me my lumens?)

Thanks!


----------



## Enigma (Apr 21, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> Oh OK I get it , Room air into filter , into light housing , out of room, that makes sense to me now, sorry about the confusion.


I've always used a filter on the exhaust end of the fan (cent. fan). The reason being:

I put my hand on the intake of the cent. fan and it slowed down A LOT.

I put my hand on the exhuast and it didn't slow down a bit.

I'm also using a seperate fan for my 600w cooltube in order to maintain room temps.





Enigma


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## Alto (Apr 22, 2008)

Enigma said:


> I've always used a filter on the exhaust end of the fan (cent. fan). The reason being:
> I put my hand on the intake of the cent. fan and it slowed down A LOT.
> I put my hand on the exhaust and it didn't slow down a bit.
> Enigma


I would do the same if I had a stealthy way to hide the filter on the outside of the OP.
As is, the fan is doing the job and temps are stable at around 75-80F
I know all the air being pushed into the other side of the basement is fresh and clean 
and there is no dust being pulled into my fan housing. One thing about the canfan I bought.
The seam around the middle of the unit where the two halves meet isn't sealed very well.
I used some duct tape and put a band around the seam. It pushes a LOT more air now than before.


----------



## Enigma (Apr 22, 2008)

Alto said:


> I would do the same if I had a stealthy way to hide the filter on the outside of the OP.
> As is, the fan is doing the job and temps are stable at around 75-80F
> I know all the air being pushed into the other side of the basement is fresh and clean
> and there is no dust being pulled into my fan housing. One thing about the canfan I bought.
> ...


 
I catch ya drift!


----------



## swampy13 (Apr 24, 2008)

I just want to try a couple of plants to start with can I buy lights or bulbs that will bee good enough to start from Home depot or lowes....etc....


----------



## Alto (Apr 25, 2008)

yes Swampy, CFLs
They talk all about it in the CFL Growing section


----------



## Enigma (Apr 25, 2008)

swampy13 said:


> I just want to try a couple of plants to start with can I buy lights or bulbs that will bee good enough to start from Home depot or lowes....etc....


 
For low cost personal, check out the link above.


----------



## nobustincaps (Apr 29, 2008)

stupidest question ever, do you think it would be possible to grow with a candle? or some sort of a flame that isnt that big ball of fire in the sky?
im just wandering.


----------



## Wikidbchofthewst (Apr 29, 2008)

Well, whether or not it would be POSSIBLE I have no idea, can't find any info on the net about it.

But I can tell you it would be very IMPRACTICLE. A candle typically produces 13 lumens. You never want to use less than 2500 lumens, even for one plant. So you'd need what...nearly 200 candles just to reach the MINIMUM amount of light needed to grow ONE plant? I mean, and that's bare minimum. The more light, the better.

Another big problem with that would be that it would be a SERIOUS fire hazard. Sometimes the LIGHTS can be a fire hazard, could you imagine growing with an open flame? You would never be able to safely leave your grow alone. You wouldn't be able to have a fan going because it'd blow out the flame.

lol, so yeah, if you really think it through, nothing about the idea makes much sense.


----------



## Enigma (Apr 29, 2008)

Alto said:


> I would do the same if I had a stealthy way to hide the filter on the outside of the OP.
> As is, the fan is doing the job and temps are stable at around 75-80F
> I know all the air being pushed into the other side of the basement is fresh and clean
> and there is no dust being pulled into my fan housing. One thing about the canfan I bought.
> ...


 
I'm going to test and see what happens when I get this Vortex fan setup.. the commercial veggie growers I've spoken with have given me this advice:

"Always pull through a filter, never push."


----------



## TheElkTreeFunk (Apr 30, 2008)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


I agree bro, Don't steal!!!


----------



## Stoned4life (May 3, 2008)

Any Info on LED Lighting. I started a small hydro garden ( 5 gallon container / 5 plants ) using LED lights ( Total 80 Watts / 2 red 1 blue light) on 4/15 plants are @ 6" and to me seem to be growing nicely ( roots are in resevoir) any reccommendations on flowering. Im a bit nervous that as the plants grow they will not receive ample light. Room is completely covered in mylar.


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## A Good Keen Man (May 4, 2008)

Stoned4life said:


> Any Info on LED Lighting. I started a small hydro garden ( 5 gallon container / 5 plants ) using LED lights ( Total 80 Watts / 2 red 1 blue light) on 4/15 plants are @ 6" and to me seem to be growing nicely ( roots are in resevoir) any reccommendations on flowering. Im a bit nervous that as the plants grow they will not receive ample light. Room is completely covered in mylar.


Hi there, this note is just to say that I'm very interesed in hearing how you (or anyone else for that matter) get on with the LED setup. Is the 80 Watts the actual electrical drain or an eqiv to, say CFL light output. Personally, I think that LED will be the way to go if all works out. Best of luck. PLEASE keep us informed.


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## Enigma (May 4, 2008)

There is a full LED grow going.. check the grow journal section!


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## brettearl (May 8, 2008)

does anyone have proof of using fluorescents from start to finish and getting descent bud?


----------



## Wikidbchofthewst (May 8, 2008)

brettearl said:


> does anyone have proof of using fluorescents from start to finish and getting descent bud?


In SeeMoreBuds' book he uses CFL's from start to finish and yields 8 oz.


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## colem8 (May 9, 2008)

Help. Ive been growing these Ice plants for 5 weeks now under a 400watt'er. There are 5 of them and some of them are beginning to develop these bud type things (the pics below explain better than i can). Can someone please help!! Are these male, female or to young to tell yet????
View attachment 114137

View attachment 114138

View attachment 114139

View attachment 114140


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## Wikidbchofthewst (May 9, 2008)

It's a boy!


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## TomThom1987 (May 14, 2008)

it is defently a very manly plant


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## ganjagoddess (May 20, 2008)

matth82003 said:


> *How much light is needed?*
> The minimum amount of light required by marijuana plants is around 3000 lumens per square foot. However, it's not 100% accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and reflectivity of the grow box. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens/sqft, and as long as the plants do not burn, as much light can be used as you want.
> (*note, the sun produces about 10,000 lumens/sqft, on a sunny summer day).
> 
> ...


HPS light = 150,000 lumens.

at two feet above a 4X4 growing area.

at one foot from light 75,000 lumens

at two feet 37,500 lumens/4x4

2343LUMENS per square foot. probally only 2000 or less on the edges..

Now you see just how innefficient even 1000 watt HPS lights are compared to the suns mighty beat down of over 10,000LUMENS on any given surface...

Sorry but the two paragraphs up above contradicted themselves...

I had to clarify how light works...


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## nbc06c (May 21, 2008)

I have would like to know if a 500wt light is ok for 3 plants in an open room when they're about 4 feet under the light.


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## drmpst56 (May 22, 2008)

I have a very important question. I bought some 45 watt (equivalent to 150 watt) CFL's, each 2900 Lumens for $8. But, at Home Depot they have a pack of 2) 23 watt (equivalent to 100 watt) 1600 lumens each for only $1.88. I figured if i can buy the 2) 1600 lumens (3200 lumens total) for $1.88. it would save me a shitload of money. Would it be better or as well to have a bunch of 23 watt bulbs then a few 45 watt (2900 lumens). If the 23 watt bulbs are enough to penetrate the plants, I could afford to buy alot of them rather then a few 45 watt bulbs. I bought 2 boxes today total of 6400 lumens for only $4. Would buying these 23 watt bulbs be more efficent then the 45 watt bulbs? 

2) 45 Watt = 5,800 lumens = $16
4) 23 Watt = 6,400 lumens = $4


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## Highstoner16 (May 23, 2008)

ok well i have a plant growth flouresent bulb u think that will work fine in a dresser???????????


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## jdp420 (May 23, 2008)

i cant get my temp do i realy need to cut holes in the walls


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## SmittyB.. (May 25, 2008)

(First Time Grower) Man, Where Can I Find These Purple CFL Lights. And Another ? Can These Lights Fit In Regular House Hold Fixtures? RIght Now Im Using A Basic Phillips 150 Watt Grow Clamp Light And Its Doing Really Well. I Have Compinsated The Distance From The Plants Due To The Heat Put Off. By The Way I Have 5 Small Plant THat Are About A Week and Half Old Now...


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## arieswebb (May 25, 2008)

Welcome to RIU 
IMO I would save up for a few weeks !
Don't spend 30-60...... on bulbs.
And don't spend 30-60...... on fixtures.
Now your 60-120......into lights and you have a nest of wires.

Just save up and buy a nice t5 4 foot 4 bulb set up with bulbs included mixed spectrum fro @ $179.00

This is just MHO, Good luck with your grow !

Grow on !


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## ganjagoddess (May 25, 2008)

Why spend $180 on crappy flouros when you can get a HPS 400 watter for $109.00 from

htgsupply.com


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## jayz123 (May 25, 2008)

Wud a single 27w 'cool white' CFL do to grow a single plant??? just threw the vega/grow stage


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## arieswebb (May 25, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Why spend $180 on crappy flouros when you can get a HPS 400 watter for $109.00 from
> 
> htgsupply.com


 
I was just giving my opinion,
It sounds like the new grower did not want to spend much and would like to have the light as close to the plant as they can.

The crappy flouros can do this with low $$$ you don't need as meany cooling fans or a larger area to keep things away from dangerous heat from HPS & MH

You can save $$$ with crappy flouros with less power consumption.

Keep looking at grows with flouros, HPS & MH and make a decison as to what you need and want out of a grow 

P. S

My courant CRAPPY growis a home built 24 sight areo grow & 4 mothers with a 4 foot 4 mixed bulb flouro and a 4 foot 8 mixed flouro units @ 1.5 inch's from the plants.

My CRAPPY setup pulls an average of 1 to 1.75 oz per. plant Not to crappy !
Grow on !


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## SmittyB.. (May 25, 2008)

I Actually Had Gone With A 400 Watt HPS Bulb I Had Gotten From Lowes Little Did I know That I Needed A Freaking $180 Fixture Ballast Not Including Having To Wire The Thing...


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## tazthejoker (May 26, 2008)

whats the specs on led lights they any good there suposed to do the same thing as a 400watt hps they say they use them in space for a lot of years now to grow veg does anybody have any feedback on them


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## ganjagoddess (May 26, 2008)

taz Leds have not proven themselves to be sufficient enough for growing..

I have yet to see even the $600 Pyrocon 100 or the UFO led unit outperform a 400 watt HPS...

It would take a lot of $$$ in a custom made cree X lamp unit to even begin to compare with flouros...

Stay away from LEDS for a couple more years until the technology develops...


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## SmittyB.. (May 26, 2008)

This is off subject but i hear it is bad to use bagseeds why is this?


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## jimmyspaz (May 26, 2008)

SmittyB.. said:


> This is off subject but i hear it is bad to use bagseeds why is this?


*Unknown genetics.*


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## sagincj (May 26, 2008)

SmittyB.. said:


> This is off subject but i hear it is bad to use bagseeds why is this?


Well if its all you got use them. Some bag seeds can be good i usualy go by if the smoke was good the seeds are more likely to be good.

*When you germinate bag seeds less most probably wont be good they 
*I dont think they grow as fast as seeds bought online
*Not feminized


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## 52millimeter (May 27, 2008)

PLANTS DONT GROW FROM HEAT, THEY GROW FROM LIGHT CORRECT?


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## ganjagoddess (May 27, 2008)

Correct partially, plants need to maintain certain temps to take in nutrients properly.

Some heat is needed.


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## 52millimeter (May 27, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Correct partially, plants need to maintain certain temps to take in nutrients properly.
> 
> Some heat is needed.


makes since thanks


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## jimmyspaz (May 27, 2008)

65 to 85 degrees fahrenheit is a good range of temps BTW.


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## tazthejoker (May 28, 2008)

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Dimensions: 12.25 x 12.25 x 1.5 inches 
Weight 1.5 lbs.[/FONT]
*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Frequently Asked Questions [/FONT]*​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Q*:*[/FONT]​*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Why do GlowPanels&#8482; work?[/FONT]*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A[/FONT]:​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Basic biology has taught us that a growing plant needs specific bands of red and blue light to stimulate chlorophyl production. It is also well known that blue light promotes vegetative growth and red light promotes fruiting & flowering. 

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27% Blue (60 pc): 460 (nm)
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Weight 1.5 lbs.[/FONT]


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## tazthejoker (May 28, 2008)

these are my plants after 1 month on leds i put a 100 flo for some heat to cold in closet
70 deg all day and with flo 76 deg the first one is 30days old 2nd one 28 days


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## ganjagoddess (May 28, 2008)

Those 225 led panels make me laugh...

the best so far is the prycon 100, or the UFO they are the only one that have proven themselves.

And to be honest LEDS are only capable of barely sustained Veg growth.

when it comes to flowering, the dont hold at all.


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## ganja85 (May 29, 2008)

Hey guys i found this item on ebay thats 1,000 watt Both HPS & MH SWITCHABLE GROW LIGHT kit for $285 + $30 shipping. I think THATS A VERY good price because in my local GrowDepot Shop it will cost me at around $600. So can u guys check out the link 1000 watt 1000W Both HPS & MH SWITCHABLE GROW LIGHT Kit - eBay (item 220239571777 end time Jun-02-08 20:18:52 PDT) 
and let me know if thats a good kit and if it worth the buy??? THANKS


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## ganjagoddess (May 29, 2008)

Hey ganja 85, check out a place called htgsupply.com

You can get the same thing for cheaper with alot more choices...
they also sell on ebay

here check this out

High Tech Garden Supply


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## ganja85 (May 29, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Hey ganja 85, check out a place called htgsupply.com
> 
> You can get the same thing for cheaper with alot more choices...
> they also sell on ebay
> ...


Yea i've seen them on ebay But i dont like when there is alot of choices. I'm newbie and i dont know what to choose!!!!! Want to help me??????


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## Tonado (May 29, 2008)

jayz123 said:


> Wud a single 27w 'cool white' CFL do to grow a single plant??? just threw the vega/grow stage


Sher, keep the light right down on the plant, 1 to 2 inches away. Get yourself a small white cardboard shipping box, tear it open and re-assemble so the white is on the inside and get some reflection working for you. Put that plant in the box, park the light right on top of it.

You wont set any speed records, but it will work and it will grow just fine. Try it out, let us know.


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## ganjagoddess (May 29, 2008)

ganja85 said:


> Yea i've seen them on ebay But i dont like when there is alot of choices. I'm newbie and i dont know what to choose!!!!! Want to help me??????


TOTALLY i would love too, heres my reccomendation bud.

High Tech Garden Supply

go with the digital 600 watter, and upgrade it to the euro hood, its air coolable.

Dont think you need a $100 heat extraction fan, you can gettho rig a $10 walmart fan and some black mylar to do the same thing.

the digi 600 watts are actually more efficient at light output than 1000 watters.

they can be placed closer and therefore achieve same lumens as the 1000's

just not as big as an area BUT at a whole lot less heat.

If you do go with either the 1000 (magnetic, the one I posted in the first message) or 600 (digi, the one link posted in this post) GET THE EURO HOOD upgrade.

And I reccomend using the light purely as a flowering light, dont go switchable ballast.

Also the reason I shot down the one light you showed us, isbecause the ballast was permenant on top of the fixture, you want a remote ballst with a 15' cord set.

All of which are standard at HTGsupply.com

Also use T8 flourescents from homedepot for VEGGIN, ($8.32 for a two light T8 fixture called the Shoplight you see it (get 5 of these $45), and for $30 the ten pack of 6500k daylight T8 bulbs, just make sure they are t 

$75 for veg lights
$235.00 for flowering light.

you will make great bud, buddy


Here you have both of your needed light VEG and FLOWER, and can actually get a continuous stream of plants going.


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## dannyking (May 31, 2008)

Ok so. This post is very usefull and informative. So ive got a 250w hps light in a 2.5 x 2.5 ft tent. Will this be enough to use for the whole life of my plants or should i consider getting a different light for the veg state and use my 250w hps for flowering only???? any feedback is much appreciated. Thanks.


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## jimmyspaz (May 31, 2008)

dannyking said:


> Ok so. This post is very usefull and informative. So ive got a 250w hps light in a 2.5 x 2.5 ft tent. Will this be enough to use for the whole life of my plants or should i consider getting a different light for the veg state and use my 250w hps for flowering only???? any feedback is much appreciated. Thanks.


You should be fine with that light in that area for the whole process, if you want to you could use a MH for veg but it isn't a big deal. Keep on growing.


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## ganjagoddess (May 31, 2008)

Jimmy spaz said it right there bud, since you have a rather small area it is possible you are very fine with the 250 watter HPS, you could get a MH conversion bulb, or even a new MH light all together, but its really not needed.

The HPS's spectrum isnt ideal for vegging although in fact way off, but it works none the less.


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## LollipopKA (Jun 1, 2008)

If you have not purchased a bulb yet and want to go with HPS all through veg and flower you should look into an HPS bulb with an extended blue spectrum. The blue spectrum increases the performance during the veg cycle and then bam, you have the hps for flower too. The best of both worlds 

lollipopka


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 1, 2008)

LollipopKA said:


> If you have not purchased a bulb yet and want to go with HPS all through veg and flower you should look into an HPS bulb with an extended blue spectrum. The blue spectrum increases the performance during the veg cycle and then bam, you have the hps for flower too. The best of both worlds
> 
> lollipopka


Yes indeed, I use Sunmaster super deluxe 1000 watt Hps bulbs because they have extended blue spectrums. I'm sure they arew avaiulable in lower watrtages too.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 1, 2008)

They also have DUAL arc lights, that are essentially two light in one, a MH and HPS.

anyone ever used one of these???


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## dkfansown (Jun 1, 2008)

i got a quick question. i acquired a 1500watt /600v mogul, could i splice it to a good extension cord and use a 125w cfl on it?


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## dave3 (Jun 2, 2008)

Question

I used a two foot growlux tube out of a fishtank the last time i grew anything.
I was told that was the best thing to use.
But that was twenty years ago.
Plus i did"nt know what i was doing.

Growlux tubes ??? any info ???


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 3, 2008)

I use a pair of 4' gro-lux tubes for clones. They don't really produce enough lumens for much else though. You could veg with them if you had no other option but I'm sure you couldn't flower without a lot more light.


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## dave3 (Jun 3, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> I use a pair of 4' gro-lux tubes for clones. They don't really produce enough lumens for much else though. You could veg with them if you had no other option but I'm sure you couldn't flower without a lot more light.



Cheers


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## ChronicKING (Jun 3, 2008)

Thank you very much this was more then helpful. I just switched to high pressure sodium and I can tell a difference in my crop. This site is very helpful!!!!!!!


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## powerplant (Jun 4, 2008)

does anyone know how many lumens LED lights have per watt?


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## powerplant (Jun 4, 2008)

powerplant said:


> does anyone know how many lumens LED lights have per watt?


i want to buy 4, 100watt, LED panels. each has *112, 10mm LED's on a 30x30cm panel.
color is bright red. each one will cost about 120 canadian dollars. any advice?
*


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## shax (Jun 4, 2008)

could i use 2 70w-high-pressue-sodium in a barral of green or a rubber maid set up to grow 2 or 3 plants?


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 4, 2008)

The highest output LED Siemens list is 1000 lumens for 50 watts which would be 20 lumens per watt. Most will be less between 10 and 15 lumens per watt. I hope this helps.


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 4, 2008)

powerplant said:


> i want to buy 4, 100watt, LED panels. each has *112, 10mm LED's on a 30x30cm panel.**
> color is bright red. each one will cost about 120 canadian dollars. any advice?
> *


HPS's are cheaper in the long run, you'll end paying more in total to match lumens of HPS's with LED's. See my last post in this thread for details of lumen output.


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 4, 2008)

shax said:


> could i use 2 70w-high-pressue-sodium in a barral of green or a rubber maid set up to grow 2 or 3 plants?


Sure could, make sure you have enough air flow to cool things down and you will be fine. Good luck!!


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

powerplant said:


> i want to buy 4, 100watt, LED panels. each has *112, 10mm LED's on a 30x30cm panel.
> color is bright red. each one will cost about 120 canadian dollars. any advice?
> *



DONT BUY LEDS,

SPEND THE MONEY ON a 1000 watt HPS LIGHT!!!!


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## powerplant (Jun 4, 2008)

we already done grown with HPS and HID lamps. but in canada. we moved to a new country and it seems like LED's are the way to go.... 

you see our grow room is located in a place where the laws are very different from Canada or the united states. here... its not worth risking it no matter what.
you have to agree that using 2200 watts for 12 hours a day will raise suspicions.
that brings up another question.
i was told by a friend that i should set up 4 to 6 car batteries to hook up to a ballast, to light up my growroom. is that even possible?https://www.rollitup.org/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=913097


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

no Hids cannot run off of car batteries.


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## powerplant (Jun 5, 2008)

How many CFL's do you think would do the same thing as a 1000 watt HPS?


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## ganja85 (Jun 5, 2008)

Hey guys what is the maximum number of plants i can grow under 600 hps light?????


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 5, 2008)

Well if you have one per square foot, and a 600 watt covers 4' X 4'= 16 sq. ft. I would guess 16?


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## ganja85 (Jun 5, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> Well if you have one per square foot, and a 600 watt covers 4' X 4'= 16 sq. ft. I would guess 16?


thanks man i was planning to put only 8


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

powerplant said:


> How many CFL's do you think would do the same thing as a 1000 watt HPS?


No amount



ganja85 said:


> Hey guys what is the maximum number of plants i can grow under 600 hps light?????


Depends on style, I can fit 100 plants under a 1000 watt, but we are talking different styles of growing.


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## powerplant (Jun 5, 2008)

what u mean no amount? what type of and how many of CFL's do i need to grow the same amount of bud that a 1000 watt HPS light would?


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## powerplant (Jun 5, 2008)

ARE 2 500W CFLs enough for 6 plants to produce good yield?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 6, 2008)

powerplant said:


> what u mean no amount? what type of and how many of CFL's do i need to grow the same amount of bud that a 1000 watt HPS light would?


The intensity of the Red and Blue spectrums emmited by any size CFL will never equal a HPS light, and since intesities cannot combine the CFL will never equate in effectiveness of a HID light.

So in theory the answer is no



powerplant said:


> ARE 2 500W CFLs enough for 6 plants to produce good yield?


The answer to this is actually yes, CFL's have actually been shown (unlike Leds) to be able to produce viable Bud in decent quantity although no matter the size or quantity of cfls will not equal the equivelent wattage HPS light's yeild.


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## powerplant (Jun 6, 2008)

thank you. obviously HPS are good, i have a 600watt one but i cant use it because of its high energy cost. im only gonna use it for the last week of flowering before i give the plants total darkness.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 6, 2008)

You would be better off using it for weeks 4-7 if possible

Also if you were asking about using two 500watt cfls???

then whats the worry for high energy cost.

You can run a 600 watt light for less than $25 a month???

600 watt actually equals 680 watts. sooo

680 X 12hours a day = 8160 watts = 8.16kwh/day at .10 cents per KWH = $.82 or 82 cents a day

x 30 days a month = $24.00 extra on your bill a month...

Thats really not much.


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## bigwheel (Jun 6, 2008)

Well know you talked me into it. Next grow I'm getting rid of all these cfls and buying a real light. Thanks. 

Big Wheel


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 6, 2008)

congrats Bigwheel, you will not regret it.

If I may suggest a website try htgsupply.com

either of these two lights.

Digital 600 watt. $200.00USD
High Tech Garden Supply

Magnetic 1000 watt, $240.00
High Tech Garden Supply


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## powerplant (Jun 7, 2008)

thanks for that.
but another problem is the fact that having a 600 watt light working 12 hours a day for 30 days, in a single bedroom apartment building... 
it says a 55 watt CFL (5000 K) is equal to having a 250 watt light bulb, 
so maybe i can buy 5 of these instead?
55W GROW LIGHTS 5000K COMPACT FLUORESCENT LIGHT BULBS - eBay (item 300229426816 end time Jun-09-08 09:30:38 PDT)


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 7, 2008)

When they say that what they mean it is the equivelent to a 250 Incadesent Light bulb.

If you study the intensity of the red and blue spectrum of a HID you will find that although the HID r +B spectrums are only 10-20% of the actual light emmited the intensity of it far surpasses the intensity of any number of CFL, LEDS, or Flouros.

think of it like this.

a 1000 watt HPS outputs 150,000lumens directly 0" below the bulb

following the inverse square ratio of light law.

One foot below it is 75,000 lumens

and two feet below (recommended distance for a 1000 watter) 37,500 lumens

So you have 37,500 Lumens hitting the plant canopy of all the spectrums light.

So lets say that 10% of that light is Red and Blue, that means at that distance you have 3,750 lumens of JUST red and blue light, or at 20% 7500 lumens of R+B light.

If you do the calculations on CFL's which are allowed to pratically touch the plant
you start with (on the CFL you posted)

3600lumens

Now Cfls have at most 25% of thier spectrum emmitted R+B so

at 0 feet 25% of 3600lumens is 900lumens of R+B spectrum

So you are waging 900 R+B lumens vs. 3750-7500 lumens on a HID

and since Lights cannot combine into a bigger Intensity of light you cannot add another CFL to get to 1800 lumens of R+B.

Your entire CFL light fixture will be putting out a Max of 900 lumens as per this example.

Marijuana in its flowering phase Needs MAD MAX light, in fact If you calculate the R+B from the sun, a 1000 watt HID light doesnt even come close.

thats why Outdoor Indicas can be 6 feet tall and Produce as much as a 1 lb of bud, vs a indoor under a 1000 watter will not come close unless seriously vegged to twice the size of its outdoor counterparts.


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## powerplant (Jun 7, 2008)

thats crazy. 
so whats the best light i can use that doesnt use as much electricity to run?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 7, 2008)

Truly a 400 hps light from htgsupply.com its only 109 bucks and will only cost you $15 a month extra on your bill!!!


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## ganja85 (Jun 8, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> No amount
> 
> 
> Depends on style, I can fit 100 plants under a 1000 watt, but we are talking different styles of growing.


So, my friend do u mean if i would use a rail i could fit around 60 plants??? or u use a different style of growing??


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 8, 2008)

I am able to fit 100 under a 1000 because less than a week from sprouting, they are placed very tightly together and put into 12/12 flowering.

We average between 5-9 grams a plants roughly.

With a Light rail, we could probally fit 150 plants in the same style but I would expect our output to drop per plant to 3.5-7 grams a plant.


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## ganja85 (Jun 9, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> When they say that what they mean it is the equivelent to a 250 Incadesent Light bulb.
> 
> If you study the intensity of the red and blue spectrum of a HID you will find that although the HID r +B spectrums are only 10-20% of the actual light emmited the intensity of it far surpasses the intensity of any number of CFL, LEDS, or Flouros.
> 
> ...



DAMN u r good at this!!
I have a serious newbie question for u my friend. I trying to put my grow room in my garage, i can't make it 4' by 4' because my BMW wouldn't fit in. If I will make it 2' by 8' along the wall i will have the same 16sf, and same lumen's per square foot, right? if not how it will effect my growroom?Plants?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 9, 2008)

well I am gonna assume you have a single 1000 watt HPS based on your question above.

So with a 2'X8' configuration you are gonna have some problems.

This is because the light from a HID light travels roughly (depending on reflector) the same distance in both direction meaning it is best suited for square shapes.

BUT lets say you get another 1000 watt, you are GOLDEN.

1 1000watter to cover 2x4 and another to cover the other 2x4

In there I would fit 100 plants roughly, 50 for each light.

using smaller 1 gallon sized pots or for the cheap solution GRO bags.

Also I would veg them for about 2 weeks then switch to flowering.

You could yeild about a half o a plant. maybe given Ideal conditions.

Just remeber Garages are not good places to grow, they have extreme temp fluctuations, and are easily spotted when You go to park your beemer in the garage by nosy neighboors, AND that is assuming you place to build some kind of 2 foot by 8 foot box to house all of them.

If you do plan to build a box to house them check out my diary I am starting tommorrow it will be full of DIY's, including, How to builb a professionaly framed Grow Box, How to Wire up new Outlets and install breakers, and How To HIGH DENSITY SOG.


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## ganja85 (Jun 10, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> well I am gonna assume you have a single 1000 watt HPS based on your question above.
> 
> So with a 2'X8' configuration you are gonna have some problems.
> 
> ...


Yea I forget to mention I have Lumatek 600 watt HPS/MH lights. Thanks to you I have decided to relocate my grow room. And another question for you my friend, whats the difference between T5 and T12. The reason I'm asking is because most hydroponic shops/sites sell T5 lights, and for the reason 'unknown' i bought T12 lamps. And do u think 4bulbs 4' long with cool white spectrum will be enough for my clones????


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 10, 2008)

Flouro bulbs come in the following varieties:

t5
t5HO
t8
t12

and many more but these are the only important ones

a t5HO (High Output) is capable of putting out up to 5000Lumens.
It is the Brightest Flouresent tube produced. This makes it ideal for growing and is capable of actually producing decent and viable plants on its own.
They have also been tweaked to produce usable spectrums for veg and flower.

These fixtures and lights are extremely expensive fixtures and bulbs, in alot of ways I think they are ripoffs or should only be bought if you intend to use them as your flowering light because you want/desire to use them Instead of HID's (HPS).

______________________________________________________________________

the next most predominant is the t8 flouro.
These are capable of outputting close to 3000lumens, and generally come in 5000k and 6500k (k stands for kelvin or the color tempature of the bulb) flavors.
They are very suitable for vegging, however, only IMO are the t5's even capable of flowering.

IN fact these are GREAT for veg lights

They are cheap, in abundance and found at you local home depot.
you can get a 2 light 4 foot fixture for $8.32, and a two pack of 6500k bulbs for $7.

I RECCOMEND THESE FOR SEEDLINGS AND SMALL PLANTS, and if you cannot afford a MH (metal halide HID light), then these are the best next bet for cost effectiveness, and quality..

_________________________________________________________________________

The t12

The t12 is the predeccessor to the T8, they are bigger, bulkier, and output less light than the t8.

They generally output around no more than 2500lumens.

I do not reccomend these although they will work fine for seedling and rooting clones.

____________________________________________________________


Now for your original question, yes your 4 T12's will be fine for your baybe seedling and for a little while longer than that.

However I would use your Lumatek ballast, and HPS bulb for vegging past a certain point and I reccomend if you can afford it to get either a MH bulb, or a MH conversion bulb as this would be better for vegging.

The t12's will be fine for getting your babys going as long as they all fit under the 4 bulbs.

Cheers.


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## ganja85 (Jun 10, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Flouro bulbs come in the following varieties:
> 
> t5
> t5HO
> ...


THANKS MAN. I never thought somebody would spend so much time here writing such big responses!!!!!


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 10, 2008)

My pleasure. This is a tricky sport to get down solid, but when you do... well its one of the best feelings in the world.


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## gtownfunk (Jun 12, 2008)

powerplant said:


> thats crazy.
> so whats the best light i can use that doesnt use as much electricity to run?


Probably the best you can do right now is the Procyon 100, which runs at about 125W total consumption and is equivalent to about a 400W HPS setup. This is American made and uses CREE (also American made) 3W LEDs. There are other products on the market like UFO and e.Shine which do not quite measure up to the Procyon yet.

A good site that has done independent reviews is: Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting

You can get more information about the Procyon at: Buy LED Grow Lights, Procyon 100

gtownfunk


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 12, 2008)

gtownfunk said:


> Probably the best you can do right now is the Procyon 100, which runs at about 125W total consumption and is equivalent to about a 400W HPS setup. This is American made and uses CREE (also American made) 3W LEDs. There are other products on the market like UFO and e.Shine which do not quite measure up to the Procyon yet.
> 
> A good site that has done independent reviews is: Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting
> 
> ...


How you gonna come into this thread after all that ranting I just did about shitty grow lights, CFLS, and T12 Flouros.

COMON the pryocon is a piece of shit.

400 watt equivilent my ASS.
I would rather be bitched slapped by my pimp a dozen times than waste $600 on that piece of crap.


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## josefjee5489 (Jun 13, 2008)

great info brah


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## powerplant (Jun 16, 2008)

CHECK THESE OUT 2 x Metal RED LED Grow Light panels + 2 FREE Grow Lamp on eBay, also Hydroponics, Plants Seeds Bulbs, Garden Plants, Home Garden (end time 17-Jun-08 19:30:00 BST)


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## mrbuzzsaw (Jun 16, 2008)

if you get caught on a construction site stealing mH lights only a dumb as rocks cop is not gonna know what your up to.
anyone else is gonna know your looking to grow.
you just officially put yourself on radar.


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## Fman (Jun 18, 2008)

LACY, sunbeams used to be a car. Just ask Agent 86


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 19, 2008)

*Yep, Maxwell Smart drove a Sunbeam Tiger, an Alpine with a Ford V/8 dropped in. Not bad cars, sort of the poor man's Cobra.*


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 19, 2008)

Ford V8's make me a happy girl..


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## pete (Jun 20, 2008)

can anyone help i am garbage at maths so dividing and multiplying and takin away all these lumens hurts my brain i have a 4x4 set up with reflective sheet around three sides i use 400hd for veg and a400hps for fowering at the moment i only put 4 plants in there cos i was told if they touch each other the plants will just keep stetching is this true if not how many could i get in the growspace ive been smokin years but am fairly new to growin i welcome all comments as i have never been on a more informative site thanks all


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## jimmyspaz (Jun 20, 2008)

pete said:


> can anyone help i am garbage at maths so dividing and multiplying and takin away all these lumens hurts my brain i have a 4x4 set up with reflective sheet around three sides i use 400hd for veg and a400hps for fowering at the moment i only put 4 plants in there cos i was told if they touch each other the plants will just keep stetching is this true if not how many could i get in the growspace ive been smokin years but am fairly new to growin i welcome all comments as i have never been on a more informative site thanks all


*It all depends on how big you want the plants. In my SOG type grow I allow 1 sq.ft.per plant so 4'X4'=16 sq.ft. so you could have 16 plants in your space. Or fewer, larger, plants, it's up to you.You should have enough light with your set-up for whatever you want to do in that space, Good Luck!*


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## brian mack (Jun 23, 2008)

I vegged and flowered with a mh light i used a air conditioner to keep room cool 
will the flowers come out loose and fluffy or will it tighten up???


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## REEFA (Jun 23, 2008)

*AEROGARDEN EXPERT ADVICE NEEDED!*


I Got An US aerogarden but im using it with a stepdown transformer in the UK the transformer Works a treat but ive now blown my bulbs, So The Big question is what if i was to buy UK Version bulbs and put them into the US aerogarden then use my ps2 power cord to supply the right voltage for the bulbs i really dont want to blow any more builbs , or waste any more money so tell me if im wrong, Advice would be Very Welcome


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## VirginHarvester (Jun 29, 2008)

kagenical said:


> Technically, a Metal Halide (at least 50w per plant, more if you can deal with the heat) for vegging, and a HPS for flowering (same wattage recommendation)... But a HPS works for both really.


From the grow pics I have seen on this site it looks like these bulbs are always above the plant. As the plant gets taller, especially if you are growing sativas, does the light penetrate through the canopy? Do people add supplemental lighting around the middle and bottom of the plants?

And on another note, is there really a difference between potency of indoor vs outdoor if you use good lighting?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 29, 2008)

VirginHarvester said:


> From the grow pics I have seen on this site it looks like these bulbs are always above the plant. As the plant gets taller, especially if you are growing sativas, does the light penetrate through the canopy? Do people add supplemental lighting around the middle and bottom of the plants?
> 
> And on another note, is there really a difference between potency of indoor vs outdoor if you use good lighting?


Mostly No and yes...

Even 1000 watt HPS lights can only penetrate so far into the canopy.

Some do add supplemental lighting but most dont, and its really not needed.

You just your best you can with the setup and it seems to work.

This is also why a lot of growers cut the bottom third off all branches off as they really wont make worth while buds and will just steal energy from the main colas.


As for the potency issue, well the SUN is the best light source in the solar system, and normally using the best/biggest light makes the most potent buds, also Blue light has a lot to do with quality whereas red light has more to do with quality.

Most HPS lights lack sufficient blue spectrums, whereas the sun has a pretty healthy band of blue.

The best Bud I have ever smoked was outdoor produced.

So IMO i would say outdoor buds has a much higher quality than indoor.

But Hydropoincs can create some really good bud as well, and is generally only used inside.

A plant with identical conditions one under a 1000 watt light and one grown outside. my bet is on the outside plant.

Also the Sun has a lot of UV-b, a trigger to trichome production.


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## VirginHarvester (Jun 30, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> As for the potency issue, well the SUN is the best light source in the solar system, and normally using the best/biggest light makes the most potent buds, also Blue light has a lot to do with quality whereas red light has more to do with quality.
> 
> Most HPS lights lack sufficient blue spectrums, whereas the sun has a pretty healthy band of blue.
> 
> ...


Not meaning to start a debate about which artificial light source is best. But, if some people use 400w HPS, would that be insufficient to produce close to outdoor results? What if you used HPS, and or a mix of sources to make sure you have all the colors and UV spectrums? I've never thought of indoor done well as being inferior to outdoor, at least not significantly. 

It sounds like the optimum mix of lighting indoors includes a couple of sources to give all the color spectrums(if that is the right way to say it) plus some source that includes UV- and that all those sources be configured and strong enough to saturate your plants. 

Do CFLs blue spectrum for vegging give off UV light? 

Thanks.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 30, 2008)

CFL's give off very little UV light.

And as for the 400 watt light, they can be placed closer to the plant than a 1000 so they essentially come with in the same lumen ranger per square foot as 1000's, they just have the ability to cover a smaller distance...

They is a grow journal on here where the effects of UV-B lights were tested.

And yeah alot of high end flowering rooms will always have a MH light as well. MH is a very blue light. usually at a ratio of 1mh-3HPS


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## six*113 (Jun 30, 2008)

If i had a duelspectrum cfl set up that produced 8400 lumens what would i be working with as far as veg. & flowering?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 30, 2008)

Kinda confusing question you asked there mate...

I mean you could use that light (im assuming it is one lightbulb) for both veg and flower if you have too.


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## VirginHarvester (Jul 1, 2008)

UV light- anyone know if there's an inexpensive UV light bulb you could use to supplement CFL, MH, HPS? It would be nice to find a couple UV lights that mimic the type of UV plants enjoy from the sun. Thanks.

I wonder if any of these are useful, or not?
http://www.nextag.com/uv-light-bulb/search-html


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 1, 2008)

Only get UV-B bulbs, and avoid bulbs that also put out as heat lamps.

Zoo Med ReptiSun 2.0 UVB Bulbs at Drs. Foster & Smith: Full-spectrum, fluorescent bulbs for reptiles


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## ganja85 (Jul 1, 2008)

Hey Guys I need Some help. I have 600w HPS/MH lights. I was told it cowers 4 by 4 foot area witch is 16sf. But i want to make my grow room 5' by 3' (15sf). How its gona effect my grow? Will it make it better???Worst??? Thanks


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 2, 2008)

you'll be fine.


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## jimmyspaz (Jul 5, 2008)

ganja85 said:


> Hey Guys I need Some help. I have 600w HPS/MH lights. I was told it cowers 4 by 4 foot area witch is 16sf. But i want to make my grow room 5' by 3' (15sf). How its gona effect my grow? Will it make it better???Worst??? Thanks


*Use a horizontal reflector, that gives a rectangular light pattern,and it should be good.*


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## brat (Jul 7, 2008)

wow what a great thread
thanks for all the info


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## DarkSeed (Jul 9, 2008)

they look great are u kidding?


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## jimbobjim (Jul 14, 2008)

i've just set up my 3'/2' veg room with two 108w fluorescents (the ones about a foot long ) and got them in round reflectors pointing down . just wondering if this is good or not? i know they would be better in a horizontal rather than vertical position but its the only reflectors i could get. The only reason i ask is icalculated my lumens/Sq Ft and it seems very low. 60 * 108 = 6480 *2 =12960 lumens divide that by the size of my grow room and its totally rubbish.


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## asuwere (Jul 15, 2008)

can someone please look at my thread on light i need help!


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## jimbobjim (Jul 17, 2008)

so are my calculations correct? only 2160 L/sq ft ? will this be enough for vegging? any help appreciated!


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## pppfemguy (Jul 17, 2008)

jimbobjim said:


> so are my calculations correct? only 2160 L/sq ft ? will this be enough for vegging? any help appreciated!


depends how big ur grow area is dude??


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## powerplant (Jul 19, 2008)

hi guys i need some help.
can someone check these lights out Osram HQI-BT 400 
tell me if they're good for growing. and how many i might need

another question is that. lets say i have 4, 600watt metal halide lamps. will it do the same work as, lets say 1 HPS lamp??


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 19, 2008)

powerplant said:


> hi guys i need some help.
> can someone check these lights out Osram HQI-BT 400
> tell me if they're good for growing. and how many i might need
> 
> another question is that. lets say i have 4, 600watt metal halide lamps. will it do the same work as, lets say 1 HPS lamp??


Those specific light bulbs the osram hqi-bt-400 are not good for growing they have a really high Green Output, and plants do not use green light, they use red and blue, look for normal MH or Normal HPS lamps with a high red or blue spectrum....


Also No a MH and HPS bulb are nearly identical in terms of output light, MH light is more Blue, and HPS light is more red.

1 400 watt MH = 1 400 watt HPS roughly in terms of lumens output...

HPS does put out a slight bit more though.


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## powerplant (Jul 20, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> Those specific light bulbs the osram hqi-bt-400 are not good for growing they have a really high Green Output, and plants do not use green light, they use red and blue, look for normal MH or Normal HPS lamps with a high red or blue spectrum....
> 
> 
> Also No a MH and HPS bulb are nearly identical in terms of output light, MH light is more Blue, and HPS light is more red.
> ...



so will i get the same results if i only use MH lamps?


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## pppfemguy (Jul 20, 2008)

powerplant said:


> so will i get the same results if i only use MH lamps?


nope......you could use hps through an entire grow but NOT mh through an entire grow but the ideal lighting is mh for vegging and hps for flowering u will get the best results with that lighting for your grow


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 20, 2008)

powerplant said:


> so will i get the same results if i only use MH lamps?


MH light is Blue, HPS light is RED.

Red is better for Flowering, and Blue is better for vegging.

Many do use MH for both, or HPS for Both.

HPS in flower will create denser, fatter buds....


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## pppfemguy (Jul 20, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> MH light is Blue, HPS light is RED.
> 
> Red is better for Flowering, and Blue is better for vegging.
> 
> ...


really ive never heard of ppl using mh for both vegging and flowering huh news to me


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## jimbobjim (Jul 20, 2008)

pppfemguy said:


> depends how big ur grow area is dude??


well i posted my lumen's per square feet so it doesn't matter, and in the post above i stated that my grow room is 3 feet by 2 feet. but thanks for the reply.

will this be enough for veg?


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## Oneton (Jul 20, 2008)

same size as mine bro
iused hps 400w right through with good results,
this time i have a mh as well, lookin forward to see thie results.


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## Oneton (Jul 20, 2008)

and your floro no not good,
but you can use it to add extra light lower in the room, should help the lower buds a bit


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## jimbobjim (Jul 20, 2008)

yeah dont really wanna use hps for veg, i dont really think its necessary got an hps for flowering though, gonna built a seperate room for that soon.


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## jimmyspaz (Jul 20, 2008)

*Certainly you can use MH for the entire grow. When I was first setting up my grow room I flowered out a couple of crops under one 400watt MH, I found that, as has already been said,the buds were a little looser and smaller than I now get unde 1000 watts HPS's. If yu can only have one HID lamp in a small area I would go with either a 400 or 600 watt MH. If,in the future you expand,it will be good for your veg room, after all. Good luck!*


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## lcar55 (Jul 24, 2008)

what do u think of blue and red leds.


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## richiejacob090 (Jul 25, 2008)

ok ive got this plant that is ooo ide say 1'1"-1'2". and i was wondering when will it start to flower, so i can tell the sex of the plant? its an inside plant just sittin in my window growing perfectly i was just curious....


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## ganjagoddess (Jul 25, 2008)

lcar55 said:


> what do u think of blue and red leds.


TRASH, LEDS ARE TRASH!!!



richiejacob090 said:


> ok ive got this plant that is ooo ide say 1'1"-1'2". and i was wondering when will it start to flower, so i can tell the sex of the plant? its an inside plant just sittin in my window growing perfectly i was just curious....


It may start to autoflower when it gets to be about a month old maybe a month and half, but seeing as it is in the windowseal it will be going by the sun natural shift to 12/12 lighting which depending on where you are in the world is happening rather soon.


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## jimmyspaz (Jul 25, 2008)

lcar55 said:


> what do u think of blue and red leds.


*I don't think about them at all. Buy real HID lamps, LEDs are not yet able to do the job, more development may change this,stay tuned.*


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## pppfemguy (Jul 27, 2008)

jimmyspaz said:


> *I don't think about them at all. Buy real HID lamps, LEDs are not yet able to do the job, more development may change this,stay tuned.*


yea this guy is rite led's are no good as of now but i think in the near future they will be the same or better then HID.......................p.s. dude george rush st pierre is the shit


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## rickblaine (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm working on my first grow -- a closet grow -- and am currently about five weeks into flowering. I'm using a 450 watt HPS bulb mounted under a reflector hood.

Last night, I noticed that several leaves on one of my plants were significantly burned (crispy and brown). I'd been trying to keep the tops of the plants close to the light because of the plants' height (they're about 3' tall and I've been concerned about light reaching the bottoms).

Would I be better off removing the reflector hood for the rest of this grow and letting the light bulb hang vertically in the middle of the three plants? And would that lower the temperature in the closet?


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## jimmyspaz (Jul 27, 2008)

No and no. If anything the temps at the plants would rise. How far are you plants from the light? They should be about 12 to 18 inches away.


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## pppfemguy (Jul 28, 2008)

rickblaine said:


> I'm working on my first grow -- a closet grow -- and am currently about five weeks into flowering. I'm using a 450 watt HPS bulb mounted under a reflector hood.
> 
> Last night, I noticed that several leaves on one of my plants were significantly burned (crispy and brown). I'd been trying to keep the tops of the plants close to the light because of the plants' height (they're about 3' tall and I've been concerned about light reaching the bottoms).
> 
> Would I be better off removing the reflector hood for the rest of this grow and letting the light bulb hang vertically in the middle of the three plants? And would that lower the temperature in the closet?


ur prolly burning ur plants with the light.........if ur concerned about light reaching the bottom go buy a few cfls and put em on the sides that actually helps with the side buds to develop


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## evanridesmx450 (Jul 28, 2008)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


dont steel that shits not cool... i work construction... how would you feel if i ran into your house and stole all your lights? yea stfu


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## hotsandsbaby (Jul 29, 2008)

Im new to this and am probably asking this in the wrong place, but, can you help? I am wondering why my baby was growing great buds and then all of a sudden 1 day it started getting covered in seeds, seeds all over the thing now. Could it be because 2 nites it got an extra hour of light?? Thanks!


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## ChroniConnoisseur (Jul 31, 2008)

was there a male around, hotsands? if not, then its a hermie and you have a bunch of seeds to pick out, but you can still smoke the shit.

ps; stealing from construction sites is awesome...its working at em that sucks


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## msb042 (Jul 31, 2008)

what about the led ufo? i just bought 2 led ufo! does any one have any experince with the leds


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## pppfemguy (Jul 31, 2008)

msb042 said:


> what about the led ufo? i just bought 2 led ufo! does any one have any experince with the leds


as of right now dude them leds arent as good as the mh/hps lighting system but maybe in the near future they may come out with something close but i highly doubt it like i said mh/hps is the light/lights to have for growing


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## GreatGrowth (Aug 4, 2008)

These guys have LED grow lights that DO work. www.sunshine-systems.com. My friend bought two of their growufos and one of their growpanel pros. I have seen his setup personally and those lights are high quality. These are not the same ufos as the led ufo. These do not have an external ballast/power supply. It is self contained and much brighter than the led ufo. My friend has harvested his LRs and is working on some Purple Haze. He is very happy with the results so far and his heat issue vanished instantly. One thing he did said that was interesting was he noticed better yields when he increased the dark period by an hour during flowering. Overall, he said the yields were pretty comparable to what he was used to but he cut his power bill by more than half. He was running a 600w HPS and a 1000w hortilux. Their pro light covers 50 sq feet. (Really, you can see exactly where the light falls and we measured it). LEDs are here and they do work. I was a skeptic too but now I am a believer.


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## shambasmoker1 (Aug 4, 2008)

Hey i have a question. Im planing on growing my first plant and i was reading that you need a female and male seed to grow next to eachother. I have no idea how to determine that and i only want to grow one plant. do i need to grow both, and what if it is a male. does it still grow the actual bud. i was reading that only female produce buds


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## E.T (Aug 5, 2008)

Wicked info! Really helpful, learning alot form this site! thanks ppl!


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## iloveit (Aug 5, 2008)

Heres a question that Im stuck with:

Where in the U.K. can I find a HPS bulb which I can use for the veg stage (blue spectrum)?

Ive been told the Philips son t agro is good but are these suitable specifically for the vegetative stage if not can anyone make any recommendations.

By the way if your think I should just use a fluorescent or metal halide bulb/s, that is out of the question as I have a different setup which cannot be adjusted


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## msb042 (Aug 7, 2008)

Is eight bulds of 54 watt t5, 4 red & 4 blue enough light to flower?


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## slaterhater22 (Aug 8, 2008)

DUDEZ! thank you for this


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## fukdapolice (Aug 8, 2008)

how much does light leakage affect the plant?

...let me be a little bit more clearer.. if the plants are getting most of the light(say about +80%) and that leaves 20% of light leaking out(where it is not needed) - how much would it affect the plants?


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## Blink (Aug 8, 2008)

Light getting out isn't really an issue, it's light getting in when it's supposed to be in the dark that's an issue.


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## fukdapolice (Aug 8, 2008)

ok. thanks.


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## its69 (Aug 9, 2008)

i got 250watt hps light, i'm scared to set it up, i haven't got ventilation can it catch fire or cause and explosion with the bulb or ballast?


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## jimmyspaz (Aug 9, 2008)

its69 said:


> i got 250watt hps light, i'm scared to set it up, i haven't got ventilation can it catch fire or cause and explosion with the bulb or ballast?


*More if an issue is the fact that the plants don't want temps over about 85 f./ 30 c. They won't grow if temps are too high. Also ventilation is needed to provide a source of CO2. without CO2 photosynthesis does not take place, and light is wasted. You NEED ventilation!! Plants WILL NOT GROW without!*


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## nfhu88 (Aug 13, 2008)

what would happen if the lighting was set at 24h light 24h dark? has anyone experimented


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## pppfemguy (Aug 14, 2008)

nfhu88 said:


> what would happen if the lighting was set at 24h light 24h dark? has anyone experimented


thats a thinker dude and sounds like a good experiment


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## sinsemilla666 (Aug 14, 2008)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


LOL what kind of tools do i need?


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## nfhu88 (Aug 14, 2008)

hahaha dude steeling lights and using them to grow bud is bad karma.. go buy some they're not that $$$ I got mine used for $150. thats with a brand new bulb.



sinsemilla666 said:


> LOL what kind of tools do i need?


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## captain792000 (Aug 30, 2008)

awesome post...


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## surryman (Sep 1, 2008)

Thanx to all contributors I found this most informative.
Ps.I'm sticking with my 400hps


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## Survolte (Sep 3, 2008)

So would I be good with a 400w hps bulb for all growth not just the flowering? I read through most of this and never saw it answered. Im going to start growing and just want to make sure I get everything crucial right.


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## nfhu88 (Sep 3, 2008)

Survolte said:


> So would I be good with a 400w hps bulb for all growth not just the flowering? I read through most of this and never saw it answered. Im going to start growing and just want to make sure I get everything crucial right.


well it is possible but u wont get the full potential of the plant. during the veg stage it likes more blue light while when flowering it likes more red light. in simple terms


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## Survolte (Sep 4, 2008)

yeah, well now I'm kind of confused. I read that article and it says that UV light makes more/bigger tricomes, so if I got a uv and an hps light when would i use what light?
or what about one of those hps with added uv rays, Im not sure what they are called.


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## ganjagoddess (Sep 7, 2008)

Many people throw in UV-B lights in addition to hps lighting once the plant goes into flowering.

That is also why they came out with HPS with more intense UV-B spectrums.

Personally I dont think it is super needed unless your going for the cup.

If your super paranoid just spend $100 for the light bulb with the added UV-B

But also remeber only UV-B is good uva and uvc are BAD!!!


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## 0849 (Sep 7, 2008)

dude just get a 400w hps and a mh conversion bulb best of both worlds. anyone know anything about lps lighting?


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## carp (Sep 9, 2008)

when do i put the lights on full on plants that have just got there first leves thay are in a propagator and i have had to take the seed shell off i dont no when to take the lid off the prop and give them 24 hours of flouro stips i have done
plants before but done them from full cuttings


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## Sedition (Sep 10, 2008)

Dude! Thank you so much for this! I'm trying my first grow soon and this information is perfect for me! Thanks a lot, ++Rep


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## drevil1981 (Sep 10, 2008)

Hi all-

First post, did a lot of reading and have a few questions. My buddy and I built a nice grow box that has inside dimensions of 3'1 high, 1'6 deep and 2'4 wide. It contains 1" reflective insulation and weather tight with a door a fan that brings in fresh air and an exhaust that takes air out into a HVAC duct with fabric softner to help dull the smell. I will be using the Aerogarden Deluxe. I am still to get extra lights, and an air pump with airstone. This will be my first grow and I want to do this right. My first question is Lights

I have a 160W Wonderlite is a wide spectrum light designed for orchids and other tropical plants that tend to perform poorly in standard home or office environments, Its unique spectral distribution has an excellent balance of blue, red and far-red wavelengths in the visible light spectrum (440, 660 and 740 nanometers)
---Is this a good light to use?
---And will I need other lights?

If I do need another light, I would prefer to get 2 of the same to put on both sides. I dont want to use lights that produce heat to the point of burning the plants...
---Is it better to have a HPS bulb or a full spectrum CFL?
---At which wattage would I need?
---Which are good brads to pick up at a home depot or so.

I have plenty other question but I am tkaing this one step at a time thanks


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## 7th1der (Sep 12, 2008)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


*BCENVY*, sometimes i like to "_relax_" and go on here cause i'm REAL interested in joining the club. lol You took the words right out of my FAWKING mouth when you replied. I'm not a contractor but when i was about 15 I had a mentor that took me to his buildings when he was getting them ready for new tennets, and he hated when people stole his sh!t. lol and if the lighting wasnt right and i hurt myself, he would've got his ass in deep sh!t if i would've gotten hurt. But are those lights really expensive? I got a concert to goto tonight, but Imma check on that shit when i get back.


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## Spiffy88 (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks for the awesome info! You all just saved me hours of running around!


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## ganjagoddess (Sep 14, 2008)

7th1der said:


> *BCENVY*, sometimes i like to "_relax_" and go on here cause i'm REAL interested in joining the club. lol You took the words right out of my FAWKING mouth when you replied. I'm not a contractor but when i was about 15 I had a mentor that took me to his buildings when he was getting them ready for new tennets, and he hated when people stole his sh!t. lol and if the lighting wasnt right and i hurt myself, he would've got his ass in deep sh!t if i would've gotten hurt. But are those lights really expensive? I got a concert to goto tonight, but Imma check on that shit when i get back.


I believe a wobble MH light goes for around $200 wholesale.


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## Tamzi (Sep 16, 2008)

the above Graph

im kinda thick when it comes too this tech stuff. can someone explain too me if this graph for a fluro tube is good for flowering or vegetive growth.

please and thank you.

sorry if this is a realy dumb question, but i realy need help. the tubbes i buy dont have rates, they just have this graph and i dont undertand it one bit. these lighst are too add sidelighting in a flowercab


Tamzi


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## drynroasty (Sep 22, 2008)

I believe that that spectum analysis shows the red wavelengths being higher than the blue, resulting in more vigorous flower/bloom than veg.

I think that is how it works. Take some time and read these threads man, I think all our answers are already posted somewhere.


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## drynroasty (Sep 22, 2008)

Also, I believe the usable range of light is between 400-700, and that bulb is within.


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## Nemo hic adest illius nom (Sep 23, 2008)

Lol just to chuck a spanner in to the works about light (don&#8217;t get me wrong im as dumb as homer simpson) but I watch on tv men of since struggling to explain light you have 1 group saying that light is a wave form and others saying no it is in a practical form so they agree to disagree and call it a wave practical form,
Lets all have a big spliff and think about it all LIGHT HAS NO COLOR I just had a spliff and realised that light also doesn&#8217;t move far it just passes the energy to the next electron it is the energy that moves,the color is emitted then the chain of electrons strike the surface of different electrons the collision for a fraction of a sec changes the frequency of the stactc electrons. this thermal scale every one kees seeing it as not light but it is that&#8217;s why it is used it tells u the frequency of the excited electrons in the steel the only thing is that the light is traped (as heat) in the steel (if u put it in a vacume the light would escape quicker like in a light bulb) all this about 1 light for this and 1 light for that don&#8217;t u get it it iss all the same just different frequencies ie 2700k and that the frequency can be changed in more ways than a pot head like me IE WHIT LIGHT IS WHITE NO WE ONLY SEE WHITE IF IT IS SHINED ON TO WHITE IF SHINE IT ON SOME THING ELSE THAT IS BLUE IT SHINES BLUE,PUT T THIN PICE OF READ PLASTIC OVER A WHITE LIGHT AND WHAT LIGHT IS EMMITED ??
MY THINKING IS GET GOOD WHITE LIGHT AND SURROUND THE WALLS IN THE RED REFLETIVE RAPPING PAPER SO THE LIGHT BOUNCED BACK WILL HAVE RED IN IT ,AND IN THE GREEN ROOM MAKE IT A BLUE ROOM IM SHORE IV SEEN THE WAPPING PAPER IN REFLETIVE RED AND BLUE AND SILVER,
Just a quick add on leds are the way to go they have just got to get the right frequencies
Don&#8217;t forget big business will do things the expensive way to get more cash from u im wondering if the cheap nasty leds would be better as u will have a wider band of frequencies
 light is a electron but what frequency it is vibrating depends on what it will do to its surroundings gamma and x-rays ect all light but on the frequency that can damage living matter (I here some one who hasn&#8217;t had enough splifs thinking light must have colour look at rainbows or prisms but as the electrons are passing though glass or water the collision is at a different angle and will change the frequency.
One more dimension if u put a small plastic sheaf over the elment in a light bulb what would it do(so long as the power wasn&#8217;t to high) nothing the electrons would carry on round the cable till it got used if u stripped all the plastic from all your cables in ur home and turn on power all the electrons will excape from the wire all the cables would go like fuse wire or light bulb element ,your pc is powered by light excited light electrons running through ur processor wanting to get out but has to go throught a maze some get to escape as heat.
That&#8217;s my little stone head rant and I cant even spell so im not trying to look clever (did this in word to sort spelling a bit)
nemo


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 23, 2008)

Nemo hic adest illius nom said:


> MY THINKING IS GET GOOD WHITE LIGHT AND SURROUND THE WALLS IN THE RED REFLETIVE RAPPING PAPER SO THE LIGHT BOUNCED BACK WILL HAVE RED IN IT ,AND IN THE GREEN ROOM MAKE IT A BLUE ROOM IM SHORE IV SEEN THE WAPPING PAPER IN REFLETIVE RED AND BLUE AND SILVER,


homer simpson.. red walls would be bad. when light hits a colored surface, every color of light is absorbed "except" the color of the surface, which is reflected. red walls would only reflect red light, all other colors would be absorbed. this is a bad thing because we want more light to reflect back to the plants.


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## Nemo hic adest illius nom (Sep 23, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> homer simpson.. red walls would be bad. when light hits a colored surface, every color of light is absorbed "except" the color of the surface, which is reflected. red walls would only reflect red light, all other colors would be absorbed. this is a bad thing because we want more light to reflect back to the plants.


 thought the idear was to increas the red u have main light in plant the reflected light will be the extra red u want for flowering it will only reflect what missed the plant first time round


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## Nemo hic adest illius nom (Sep 23, 2008)

Nemo hic adest illius nom said:


> thought the idear was to increas the red u have main light in plant the reflected light will be the extra red u want for flowering it will only reflect what missed the plant first time round


 here is some thing else i see program years a go where they noticed pine trees growing 1rd quicker then the rest turnd out was the overhead power cables giveing off electromagnettic radeation (getting my plants in cella this week i want to rap a ext lead cable round the pot of pne and see if there is a difference)might be why 1 light works better tan others is the emf from the large ballist
just a smokeing thought


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 23, 2008)

Nemo hic adest illius nom said:


> thought the idear was to increas the red u have main light in plant the reflected light will be the extra red u want for flowering it will only reflect what missed the plant first time round


while I agree that more red light could only help the plant, adding red walls to a room wouldn't really add more red light, but only seem that way. the walls would reflect red light and absorb all the rest, while walls painted flat white will reflect the same red light with the addition of all other colors. you're not really adding red light, but removing other light that would otherwise be reflected. A for affort! 




Nemo hic adest illius nom said:


> here is some thing else i see program years a go where they noticed pine trees growing 1rd quicker then the rest turnd out was the overhead power cables giveing off electromagnettic radeation (getting my plants in cella this week i want to rap a ext lead cable round the pot of pne and see if there is a difference)might be why 1 light works better tan others is the emf from the large ballist
> just a smokeing thought


interesting. you wouldn't happen to have the article, would you? sounds like a strange phenomenon.


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## sinsemilla666 (Sep 23, 2008)

nfhu88 said:


> hahaha dude steeling lights and using them to grow bud is bad karma.. go buy some they're not that $$$ I got mine used for $150. thats with a brand new bulb.


just kiding dude i would hardly steal some light ballast from someone, i just got mine from ebay and i love it, cheap and realy works.


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## Nemo hic adest illius nom (Sep 23, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> while I agree that more red light could only help the plant, adding red walls to a room wouldn't really add more red light, but only seem that way. the walls would reflect red light and absorb all the rest, while walls painted flat white will reflect the same red light with the addition of all other colors. you're not really adding red light, but removing other light that would otherwise be reflected. A for affort!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


no sorry cant remember what the program was about,but they did show u the rows of pine trees under the power cables and u could see they were a 3rd taller and thicker branches, following the lines of over head power cables.also can cause cancers to us so dont have a to big emf ner ur plants (when i get my plants in cella this week i will try and take reg pic of it and others in cella and compair,only got my new cuttings down thwere right now today is there 2nd day lol i might be a dady again soon


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## Nemo hic adest illius nom (Sep 23, 2008)

Nemo hic adest illius nom said:


> no sorry cant remember what the program was about,but they did show u the rows of pine trees under the power cables and u could see they were a 3rd taller and thicker branches, following the lines of over head power cables.also can cause cancers to us so dont have a to big emf ner ur plants (when i get my plants in cella this week i will try and take reg pic of it and others in cella and compair,only got my new cuttings down thwere right now today is there 2nd day lol i might be a dady again soon


 Marijuana Growing - Nemo hic adest illius nom's Album: my fist crop going in to cella this weekend - Picture
my babys for cella will take pic of my cuttings if they take and follow there progress iv got a few leds on cables for cars i want to put over 1 cutting and see if there is a difference to others,


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 24, 2008)

Nemo hic adest illius nom said:


> no sorry cant remember what the program was about,but they did show u the rows of pine trees under the power cables and u could see they were a 3rd taller and thicker branches, following the lines of over head power cables.also can cause cancers to us so dont have a to big emf ner ur plants (when i get my plants in cella this week i will try and take reg pic of it and others in cella and compair,only got my new cuttings down thwere right now today is there 2nd day lol i might be a dady again soon


put a bunch of cell phones around your plants to give them a little electro magnetic radiation. I've heard of power lines causing stronger paranormal activity. the last thing you want is cancer and haunted plants.


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## gforce420 (Sep 25, 2008)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


While this may be true I recommend not stealing them. I just searched for 1 & it's $219 for a 400W lite. Go buy one. I work construction & i have had my stuff stolen before. When you steal from a construction site you aren't stealing from wal-mart. You are stealing from someone that's prolly just trying to make a living. struggling by day to day like me. Someone that might be your best friend if you actually got to know them. It's bad Karma & it's wrong. plain & simple. We are not animals. & Crap like that just feeds into ppls stereotypes that marijuana = drugs = crime = scumbags. We're not animals. I know most ppl i know that smoke are ethical ppl & have strong morals. But in every crowd there are bad seeds. & also i know young ppl are a bit more easily influenced & perhaps more likely to do something crazy & go for instant gratification. But please understand stealing is wrong. It's not cool & it's not ok. So please if you wanna grow then by all means grow. but find a way to do it that is within your means to do & don't do anything you believe to be unethical. Don't sell yourself out just 'cause it may seem easy.


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## mykpalmer (Sep 26, 2008)

Nice work you all have a lot of time on your hands..


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## GypsyBush (Oct 2, 2008)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


Fuck man... if you need a light that bad... come steal mine...

I'll introduce to Bessie... a good ol'fashioned 12 gage kinda light.... they don't last long... but they sure carry a bang...!!!!

*If it does not belong to you... LEAVE IT ALONE...!!!! PERIOD...!!!!*​Ps. if you still want to steal lights, Pm me for the address...

GYPSY...


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## Rollbilly (Oct 5, 2008)

*Lol, @ Gypsy. That gets my vote, along with similar posts.*

*Don`t steal and attract more than your fair share of do-gooders to grass you up!!*

*First rule of growing is best adhered to..... Dont let anyone know you grow!*


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## fbinsley (Oct 7, 2008)

grat postings with good info on cfls


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## new toker (Oct 9, 2008)

first timer grower here... umm can sum1 email me back and forth i got sum questions my email is [email protected] --- well basically id like to start off with i need info on a light i can use 24/7 on 2 plants wud a 80-100 watt low pressure sodium 1 work? email me?


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## Titan4jah (Oct 14, 2008)

stealing is not good and will have a negitive effect on those plants if u use a stolen light...


ne way i use a cfl from seedling to veg, a 1000 watt mh fer veg, and a 1000watt hps for flowering seems to be the best that ive found for growing the best buds, u could leave that PURple on with the mh to help out, im sure the plants wouldent mind the extra light and spect.


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## OriginalBongster (Oct 15, 2008)

BCENVY said:


> Find your local major electrical company (like one's that do large comercial jobs) find their suppliers (their suppliers usually sell to the public, just not at our discounted rate)
> 
> **EDIT**
> You can find this item legally for under $200 on amazon, under "home improvement" I found it by doing a google search for "metal halide wobble light"
> ...


take it to the PMs


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## KillerGreenBud(K.G.B.) (Oct 17, 2008)

what about led , mixed spectrum lights? its said that a 50 watt led 12x12 gives 80000 lumes and best spectrums, htg has them, and give off very little heat ive heard that there not very good,but no reasons why. im trying 2 start my first winter indoor grow where heat and power consumption is a problem. i would love 2 hear details thanks


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## killerweedgrower (Oct 18, 2008)

I have a high output floresent fixture that holds 8 four feet bulbs. Each one puts out 5000 lumenas a total of 40,000 lumens! Each bulb only uses 54watts of electricity so basically your getting all the light with out the electric bill being to high like I am all the time. I highley recomend highoutputs for indoors because of there low heat output. Just throw your light, plants and co2 in a sealed closet with a timer and boom you got chronic


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## SayWord (Oct 18, 2008)

so whats a good red spectrum light for flowering for under a hundred bucks? anyone got any recomendations? im gonna have my girl buy it. thanks guys


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## SayWord (Oct 18, 2008)

hows this lookin?

t Friendly Check Out

1000 Watt HPS
*1000 Watt - High Pressure Sodium -2100K - Clear - LU1000/ECO - Sylvania #67307*





*Catalog Code: LU1000-67307*
1 to 5 = $40.22 Each 6+  = $37.96 Each Qty 


*Manufacturer* Sylvania Lamp Company *Manufacturer's Part #* 67307 *Bulb Finish* Clear *Wattage* 1000 *Lumens (Initial)* 130,000 *Life Hours (Avg)* 24,000 *Bulb Type* E25 *Base Type* E39 Mogul Base *Operating Position* Universal *Over all Diameter* 3.1 in. *Over all Length (M.O.L)* 15.1 in. *Color Temperature (Kelvin)* 2100 *Color Rendering Index* 22 *ANSI Code* S52 *Fixture Type* Unprotected - Enclosed Fixtures Only *Case Quantity* 6 
*Additional Information* *:* For Recycling Products *Click Here* 




Click Here for Larger Image​







Manufacturer: Sylvania Lamp Company 
Manufacturer's Part #: 67307 
LU1000/ECO 
1000 Watt - 24,000 Life Hours 
Color Temp: 2100K 
130,000 Lumens - 22 CRI 
Bulb Finish: Clear 
E25 Bulb - E39 Mogul Base 
Overall Length: 15.1 in. 
Overall Diameter: 3.1 in. 
ANSI Code: S52 
Unprotected - Enclosed Fixtures Only 
Case Quantity is 6 
Sylvania 67307 Spec Sheet





Sylvania HPS Sell Sheet


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## Mokbol (Oct 21, 2008)

mixed spectrum lights? its said that a 50 watt led 12x12 gives 80000 lumes and best spectrums, htg has them, and give off very little heat ive heard that there not very good,but no reasons why. im trying 2 start my first winter indoor grow where heat and power consumption is a problem.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 21, 2008)

I think the lumen output specs of led grow lights are exaggerated, or based on the distance of an inch from the lights. does anyone have some math to show the amount of light an led panel has compared to a cfl or tube florescent? talking about small indoor grows with heat concerns. I came up with a number of 2.532 lumens per led when I first looked into it, but I'm not sure how accurate that is. if you can fit 15 led's in a square inch and have a 12x12 panel, you have 2160 led's with 5469 lumens. sound about right? about the same as 4 100 watt cfl's.


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## itsgrowinglikeaweed (Oct 22, 2008)

The thread title is "things to know about lighting". Well, heres something to know...
Mercury in Compact Fluorescent Bulbs More Hazardous than Previously Thought
Please dont kill the mesenger I use them too.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 22, 2008)

itsgrowinglikeaweed said:


> The thread title is "things to know about lighting". Well, heres something to know...
> Mercury in Compact Fluorescent Bulbs More Hazardous than Previously Thought
> Please dont kill the mesenger I use them too.



well, yeah... doesn't it seem kinda obvious now that you think of it?


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## itsgrowinglikeaweed (Oct 22, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> well, yeah... doesn't it seem kinda obvious now that you think of it?


 Well if its so obvious, how come no one knows about it????????????????
And if its so obvious that the governments and corporations of the world are putting out so many poisonous and toxic products, then why are we all purchasing these products???


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 22, 2008)

itsgrowinglikeaweed said:


> Well if its so obvious, how come no one knows about it????????????????
> And if its so obvious that the governments and corporations of the world are putting out so many poisonous and toxic products, then why are we all purchasing these products???


here is my theory, I really think it's true and applies in so many different ways.. "people are naturally stupid". as far as I know mercury is banned from public schools, yet they still use tube florescents. what is stopping people from disposing of the cfl's in the proper way? laziness maybe? the single and only reason the environment is on peoples minds so much lately is because they want to save money. there were environmentally friendly solutions available a decade ago, but people wouldn't pay extra for it, but that has changed now. same thing with cars. people want to save money on gas, so the hybrids hit the market.

don't get me wrong. not everyone is like that, stupid and lazy. us pot heads aren't stupid, only lazy.


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## Atticnoob (Oct 23, 2008)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


It doesn't cost you money, surely it's an insurance job. Ain't steling from the hardworking people, you're really stealing from their bosses who actually paid for the stuff. Also those lights arn't on all night so therefor when you get there at 5am in the morning it's going to be dark regardless of if someone stole one of these lights or not. I dont suggest stealing but i think you should settle down and stop waving around all these false facts and figures.


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## Atticnoob (Oct 23, 2008)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


It doesn't cost you money, surely it's an insurance job. Ain't steling from the hardworking people, you're really stealing from their bosses who actually paid for the stuff. Also those lights arn't on all night so therefor when you get there at 5am in the morning it's going to be dark regardless of if someone stole one of these lights or not. I dont suggest stealing but i think you should settle down and stop waving around all these false facts and figures.


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## guitarman7311 (Oct 23, 2008)

Hey ya easy on the stealin dude, were potheads not crack heads lmao. Geeze dude Ive been workin the same job for 15 years, In never think bout stealin but Im 43 years old so Ive already learned fron my stupid mistakes in life. So dont go stealin and givin us potheads a bad name k ???????


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## GWM (Oct 26, 2008)

i have a single 100W metal halide on a singel plant in an small enclosure. enclosure is very well ventilated, temp and humid are good. is 100 watts going to get me threw veg? was going to add 100W of HPS to flower? ??


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## iBlaze DrO (Oct 30, 2008)

whats up my fellow blazers lol.. I have a question does it matter how many lights you have cause i plan on gettin like 8 or 10 CFL 40 watts..yea its a lil on the cheap side but will it produce?? btw im growin about 4 or 5 plants


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## guitarman7311 (Oct 31, 2008)

iBlaze DrO said:


> whats up my fellow blazers lol.. I have a question does it matter how many lights you have cause i plan on gettin like 8 or 10 CFL 40 watts..yea its a lil on the cheap side but will it produce?? btw im growin about 4 or 5 plants


 
Hell yup it matters sunny boy !! Dont go with cfls though. Heres my advice and I wouldnt shit a shitter, Go to walmart and grab a bout 4 of those 10 dollar grow lights they sell now. Buy a cheap roll of duct tape while u r there. Go home and tape the individual lights together, duct taping the ends to make a killer 24" grow light. To hang just wrap nylon rope around duct tape at the end in between the pair of lights . U might wanna get a 6 outlet plug because u have to plug in each light individually. They have over 1100 lumens each, With a 75 watt output each but uses only 17 watts of power. so basically 4 lights = over 4400 lumens 300 watt output and will grow your plants short green and bushy with a 7800k spectrum color. You could even buy the regular 4200 k 24" light, really just the same model 7020. The grow lights are model 7020gl. For some reason the regular bulbs are only 9 bucks. Oh ur welcome bro smoke up. My freind uses 6 of em taped together his plants are so friggin bushy !! He gets em about 8 to 12 inches tall then puts em into flower, It makes ur nodes really close together so when u put under hps light and ur plant stretches. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## iBlaze DrO (Oct 31, 2008)

guitarman7311 said:


> Hell yup it matters sunny boy !! Dont go with cfls though. Heres my advice and I wouldnt shit a shitter, Go to walmart and grab a bout 4 of those 10 dollar grow lights they sell now. Buy a cheap roll of duct tape while u r there. Go home and tape the individual lights together, duct taping the ends to make a killer 24" grow light. To hang just wrap nylon rope around duct tape at the end in between the pair of lights . U might wanna get a 6 outlet plug because u have to plug in each light individually. They have over 1100 lumens each, With a 75 watt output each but uses only 17 watts of power. so basically 4 lights = over 4400 lumens 300 watt output and will grow your plants short green and bushy with a 7800k spectrum color. You could even buy the regular 4200 k 24" light, really just the same model 7020. The grow lights are model 7020gl. For some reason the regular bulbs are only 9 bucks. Oh ur welcome bro smoke up. My freind uses 6 of em taped together his plants are so friggin bushy !! He gets em about 8 to 12 inches tall then puts em into flower, It makes ur nodes really close together so when u put under hps light and ur plant stretches. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



good lookin i plan on gettin em today


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## guitarman7311 (Nov 2, 2008)

iBlaze DrO said:


> good lookin i plan on gettin em today


 
Kewl. yes the plant in the pic was grown under them for I believe that was around 2 weeks. I had to pullem but long story there. Anyways I wish u luck and privacy. By the way that is a 9 inch pot. pretty sad I had to pull that 1 boo hoo.


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## Titan4jah (Nov 2, 2008)

iBlaze DrO said:


> whats up my fellow blazers lol.. I have a question does it matter how many lights you have cause i plan on gettin like 8 or 10 CFL 40 watts..yea its a lil on the cheap side but will it produce?? btw im growin about 4 or 5 plants


 
in my OPINION your guna waste your time inless you get at least a 4oowatt mh, i mean fer 4 plants at least. and some co2/nutes. if not your not guna get more then a half i bet. not really worth the risk but i guess we all start somewhere, goodluck with your crop bro.


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## iBlaze DrO (Nov 2, 2008)

thanks everyone for the info


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## Rollbilly (Nov 3, 2008)

K, I have been growing for `bout 7 years (on this stretch, I grew few years ago but not counting that) I just finished a series of light trials. I used to use sunlight, in a BIG shed with a perspex roof. All natural it grew adequate plants for my own needs but nothing great.
Then I moved into a place where I couldn`t really use the shed `cos theres not enough light to the garden. (too many surrounding trees).
So I grow in two double cupboards. First I tried Flourescents and I was happy for a while, again adequate plants for my needs but not great.
Then I made the foray into testing the new LED lighting. What a bloody dissapointment!! to say the least.  Not enough heat to keep them warm, and the main problem with led`s is that you can`t concentrate the light in one area. The bigger the spread of your array of lights the bigger the spread of the actual light coverage. That was crap, don`t do it.
Then I took the advice of others and went for the 400 watt hps.
Damn! It was too hot even with the fan going all the time the lights were on, two feet above the plants it still burnt the leaves.
Bottom line..... for a two by three foot cupboard I have a 250 watt HPS I use the fan set on timer to keep the heat at optimum. And my plants are the best ever!!!  I love them again. 
I still use floro`s for seedlings and cuttings in the second cupboard and thats fine, but the best lighting now is my 250 watt hps. Will never change it now.


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## GypsyBush (Nov 3, 2008)

did you have the 400 in a cool tube???

do you still have the 400??

would you try the 400 with a cool tube?

Check my sig for 2 DIY cool tube projects...

I have a 600 HPS in a tent that is 36x20x60..and I keep it 10" from my plants with zero issues... temps in the lower 70's...

best of luck...


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## SayWord (Nov 3, 2008)

how many plants you got under the 250 billy?


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## Vitus.Syndrome (Nov 5, 2008)

Am I correct is saying that if I want to do a five plant set up in a 4 by 5 area I will basically need a 1000 watt HPS. That seem like it would get stupid hot really fast. Can the lumens be to high? Can I use a lower wattage, say 600 if I use good reflectors?


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## GypsyBush (Nov 5, 2008)

Vitus.Syndrome said:


> Am I correct is saying that if I want to do a five plant set up in a 4 by 5 area I will basically need a 1000 watt HPS. That seem like it would get stupid hot really fast. Can the lumens be to high? Can I use a lower wattage, say 600 if I use good reflectors?


I use a cool tubed 600 watt HPS in my homemade tent... it's 95,000 lumens in 5 sq ft...

That's 19,000 lumens per square foot...

So I say get an aircooled reflector, a kick ass fan dedicated to your hood and slap that 1000 watter in there...

Oh and did I mention I keep my 600 TEN INCHES from my plants with 75F..?

Yeah..

best of Luck mate....


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## Vitus.Syndrome (Nov 5, 2008)

So a thousand should work, just need to hella cool it, Awesome
I wish these lights weren't so damn expensive.


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## GypsyBush (Nov 5, 2008)

Vitus.Syndrome said:


> So a thousand should work, just need to hella cool it, Awesome
> I wish these lights weren't so damn expensive.


I would deff. recommend a DIY coo tube... and a DIY Batwing reflector...

You can find them both in the GrowFAQ which is a great place ...

But here.. this is a good place to start...

* How do I build my own Cool Tube?*

Best of luck mate...


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## guitarman7311 (Nov 6, 2008)

Titan4jah said:


> in my OPINION your guna waste your time inless you get at least a 4oowatt mh, i mean fer 4 plants at least. and some co2/nutes. if not your not guna get more then a half i bet. not really worth the risk but i guess we all start somewhere, goodluck with your crop bro.


 

Yes but mh lights put out a lot of heat and I dont believe u can get a complete setup for under 50 bucks. Yes mh is better but belive me dont knock those Walmart lights till ya try em. Let ur plants grow bout a month under em and u will see how green and bushy they get. I dont suggest flowering under floros although Ive never tried. I suggest a hps 400 watter if u can afford 1 in a couple a months cause ur plants will be bushy with ur nodes under those walmart lights will only be an inch or so apart and need to stretch for maximum light. Hps lights will stretch em out and grow some narly thick buds..


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## guitarman7311 (Nov 6, 2008)

Vitus.Syndrome said:


> So a thousand should work, just need to hella cool it, Awesome
> I wish these lights weren't so damn expensive.


 
A 1000 watter is way to much. 4 plants will be great under a 400 watt hps. Get the agro bulbs with a bluer spectrum. Trust me a 400 watter will grow 4 healthy plants and cost half as much in electric. Or if ur afraid its not enuff for 5 plants get another 250 watt hps. 400 should do er though.


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## TyrannusLeo (Nov 8, 2008)

That isn't correct, search PlanetGanja and Cannabis boards and you can find a lot of threads on the advanced theories and practice of growing using LEDs, it mainly comes down to most people attempting LED grows are using inferior quality or simply not powerful enough LEDs. From what I've personally seen and heard a proper setup using high power aka class 2 LEDs (Cree Xlamps, Luxeon Rebels, and Ledengin (which come from individual wattages of 5-15W) would basically demolish all other currently availabe forms of lighting in PAR and PUR. The main arguements going back and fourth are beam angle related, underdriving vs overdriving, the use of light near 660nm to create artificial darkness. 

With that inmind however, one must note at the current prices for these higher end components, initial cost is much steeper, however once one factors in electrical costs (assuming you aren't solar, wind, etc) it does indeed even out, even at this moment. I believe in the November 2008 issue of High Times Jorge Cervantes reviewed a Spanish built UFO type LED vs a 400W HPS and a 600WHPS, the yeild to electrical price ration in this particular example was a net loss of 15% of yeild however when costs were factored in this was nearly even, and I in no way assert this is the most effective design. 

Please in no way insult the thousands of man hours being put into the serious and hobbiest application of LED technology as a long term revolution in horicultural lighting.

I my self bought a Chinese panel which is apparently underdriven unnamed brand 10mm LEDs in an array of 72 Red vs 40 Blue. I was a victim of misrepresentation, but from that mistake I have done significant amounts of research on the topic. I'll put it to you like my forum buddy Weezard put it to me, 5mm? Not It, 10mm? Not It Either, 1W, Little Bit, 5W Getting There, 15W? Can Do. He's using an array of 4x RED 15W 1x BLUE 15W underdriven so his guesstimation of total used wattage is 60, and the guy seems upright to me and he claims to have colas the size of his fist under that unperfected but raw power set up. here's a link to the thread where he responded to my questions for your own inspection 

The perfect LED grow light - Page 60 - Cannabis.com Forums Message Boards - Medical Marijuana, Cannabis Club, Dispensary, News

Those Ledengin LEDs he is using are around thirty dollars per, but colas the size of my fist with a 60W power bill sounds like the future to me.


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## Rollbilly (Nov 8, 2008)

SayWord said:


> how many plants you got under the 250 billy?


I have two large plants, and I mean a nice spread of bushy plant. And three smaller plants in one tub. The two large plants are doing bloody great!! 
I only grow for my own weed, 250w HPS is plenty. The guy I bought it off also used 400w like me, then changed to 250`s. 
I never wanted to spend money on my grows, whats the point?? Like I say, its just for my own smokes, I want it nice and cheap. 
As for the guy who suggested usng 1000w in a small space, jeeez thats just going to nuke your plants!!!


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## Rollbilly (Nov 8, 2008)

Okey and you`ll pardon my french. Bollocks to the guy who spent $1800 on led`s. 
Sorry keep it short, tell it like it is. I grow my own `cos I want cheap weed and thats what I get, and plenty of it.


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## HomeGrownHairy (Nov 8, 2008)

shambasmoker1 said:


> Hey i have a question. Im planing on growing my first plant and i was reading that you need a female and male seed to grow next to eachother. I have no idea how to determine that and i only want to grow one plant. do i need to grow both, and what if it is a male. does it still grow the actual bud. i was reading that only female produce buds


Simple. Female seeds are pink and male seeds are blue. Man, read some posts.


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## duda420 (Nov 9, 2008)

how long should the light be left on when plant is 3 weeks old? 12 hrs, all day?


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## SayWord (Nov 9, 2008)

all day, 24 hours


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## Rollbilly (Nov 10, 2008)

HomeGrownHairy said:


> Simple. Female seeds are pink and male seeds are blue. Man, read some posts.


That gotta be a joke ...right!? 
No you do not want male plants at all. The weed you want to grow comes from female only. Male plants have hardly any THC wich is your loving ingredient. If you keep the males they will polinate the females and the females will flower, no more THC for them then....There is a school of thinking that says 18 hours light start to finnish. Its popular,, but the majority is 24 hours light untel they have at least 7 sets of leaves. Again the thinking may be different in other schools. Also could be 24 hours until you have three sets of leaves that are NOT in opposite pairs on the stem. (Note.. this is the bare minimum, you are forcing flower at this stage... best bet?? at least two feet of "proper" growtth)
Then its twelve on twelve off. Make sure the twelve off has no light at all. Light leaks often cause stunted/slow growth. less yield.
Last.... you will not know wether they are male or female until you start your 12 hour cycle. Thats when they start to flower..... Males have little balls under the leaves right at the joint of the stem, females have white hairs... if your not sure they can be grown for a couple of weeks before the males start to polinate.


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## joshlouis (Nov 12, 2008)

hello ive got a uv bulb out of a sun bed and ive got a actual light bulb case and ive fitted it and its 100 watts but ive got it just on 1 plant its big and but the buds has started to come threw so ive put the light on 12/12 is that enuf heat and light sum 1 help please write back thnakl you


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## joshlouis (Nov 12, 2008)

hello ive got a uv bulb out of a sun bed and ive got a actual light bulb case and ive fitted it and its 100 watts but ive got it just on 1 plant its big and but the buds has started to come threw so ive put the light on 12/12 is that enuf heat and light sum 1 help please write back thnakl you


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## volcomrider157 (Nov 12, 2008)

quick question i have access to alot of bulbs for free right now but i dont know if they are what i want. i looked at the bulbs and they say 400W "Metal Arc" is "metal arc the same as metal halide? and if not will they still work well for growing?


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## jashua (Nov 13, 2008)

*Does anyone have experience with newer LED systems?* 
I have read that they don't waste any power on light spectrum useless to plants. Without any white, yellow, or green light, you are left with basically red and blue LEDs, (I've seen a brand with amber LEDs in the mix) and has reports of rapid, dense growth. The best part is they use very low watts (since most wattage in Halide and HPS goes to HEAT and white light.) Also it would be nice to never have to change a bulb, or hang a heavy-ass ballast. After a little online research, I've noticed maybe these LEDs are _something_, because they seem overpriced. I mean, aren't LED's dirt cheap?
The best bargain I have found is a LED panel from Sunshine Systems that costs about $140, and claims to sufficiently light 5 sq. ft. and that it 'surpasses a 250W HPS'. The Glowpanel 45 uses 45 Watts, obviously. I figure a couple of these could be a good start. 
I'm still curious, I don't want to skimp on light, but the thought of running LED panels for mere pennies... or from a solar panel, is irresistable. Apparently, this LED method is in use on the ISS, and was NASA's choice for growing in space. Super lightweight, efficient, no heat buildup... the heat factor alone changes the game... half as much nutrients and water needed.
Can someone tell me if these LED systems are patented, photosynthesis colors OR off-the-shelf red, blue, and amber LEDs from Radio Shack!?


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## guitarman7311 (Nov 13, 2008)

Well youtube has some videos of led plants. They look peretty skimpy and sad to me. Leds are not the way to go yet Im afraid. Hps is the best stand alone light for weed. The next best would be metal halide . I would suggest floros instead of leds.The grow lights walmart sells for 10 bucks each are good grow lights. 24 " long, 7800k color spectrum. uses only 17 watts , puts out 75 watts , 1100 lumens. Buy 4 or 6 of em and duct tape together, will beat any led setup. Just look at my profile pic. 2 weeks growin under 6 walmart grolites. it was really bushy to before I had to yank it Boo Hooo !. Thanks.


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## guitarman7311 (Nov 13, 2008)

Titan4jah said:


> in my OPINION your guna waste your time inless you get at least a 4oowatt mh, i mean fer 4 plants at least. and some co2/nutes. if not your not guna get more then a half i bet. not really worth the risk but i guess we all start somewhere, goodluck with your crop bro.


 
Floros are fine for your vegitative grow, sure mh lights are better but in my opinion just for a few plants floros are fine if you make a reflective cabinet . Just keep the lights no more than 2 inches from tops of ur plants. Hps for flower though if you want knarly thick buds.


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## volcomrider157 (Nov 13, 2008)

are metal halide and metal arc pretty much the same or no!?


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## jashua (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks guys & gals. I sure am anxious for next-generation LEDs, though. My plan so far is to build a fully reflective-interior cabinet and use fluorescents... I am tempted to go with HPS since my rent includes electricity. My landlord will get the bill 
But the heat issue requires more engineering.

My past roommate had a 400W HPS, 2 plant hydro set-up in our old house, but he tinkered with the irrigation & nutri daily and his plants were in constant state of shock.

Another friend had two 500W HPS and 4-6 plants that got ENORMOUS. He vegged them too long, and his bills were high. The setup filled half the room. Worst of all he used anonymous bag-seeds. The buds were big, but really fluffy and dry. Bitter taste.

Yet another friend showed me his low-budget setup. I laughed at his puny fluorescents and spindly plants. He grew in plain potting soil with Miracle-Gro. The buds were small and not very potent, but the taste was amazing! 

So... I am interested in only growing 1-2 plants, with moderate electricity. Really want to try aeroponic, but that may be a bit audacious for my first attempt. I like the taste and simplicity of soil, but may opt for speedy hydro. Either way I am limited in space. Sea of Green method may be my best option for continous supply, and I have heard that fluorescents are well-suited for this, since the plants are short.

I have heard stories about an INVERTED aeroponics system, where the root-ball is elevated and the plants grow downwards towards the floor. I have heard this lets the plant grow with gravity, not against it. Is there any truth in this? I have seen hanging soil planters like that for tomato vines. It sounds challenging with aero or hydroponic, like it would drip all over the place. Would the light source be pointing upwards? Anyone heard of this method?

I am anxious to learn pruning techniques to produce short, heavy plants. (bonsai!) I have heard that lower temps can keep plants short and fat, and CO2 helps as well. My garden may be size-restricted, but my goal is heavy, dense, and sticky! I don't want to end up with wimpy grass! I will spare no expense, surely it will cost less than my current pot-snob consumer-habit!


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## KaliKitsune (Nov 14, 2008)

master mioda said:


> How about UVB rays spectrum lights? It is proved UVB increase THC quality and quantity. Neither CFL, MH or HPS are no UVB rays.`


UV is produced in all gas lights, from fluorescents to MH to HPS to CMH to MV.

Federal mandates made the bulb manufacturers use UV-filtering glass for safety reasons. This is why you get extremely low levels of any UV wavelength from these lights. The glass is specially made to filter out UV. Bulbs that allow UV only to filter out are made from Wood's Glass, which filters out most visible spectra and allows only the near-UV to far-UV to penetrate through the glass.


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## davids (Nov 15, 2008)

Yo, first timer your a piece of shit thiefs get there fingers cut off can you dig it........


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## SmokeDr420 (Nov 17, 2008)

Does mix lighting work well??????i have a 150 watt HPS and one 23 watt cfl on the side for sidelighting since it is about a 2 and 1/2 ft topped plant so you could imagine it is bushy......i have already super cropped it twice and am getting prepared to flower now and i was just wondering if i can used mixed lighting until i flower.....will it be ok or what??? any feedback would be great>>>>>thanks 

SmokeDr420


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## SayWord (Nov 17, 2008)

as much light as you can put in there is good. i have twelve cfl's. and i have a 600w hps arriving any day. when it arrives im not gonna take the cfl's out, im gonna use them all as supplemental lighting. do the same


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## purpdaddy (Nov 17, 2008)

SayWord said:


> as much light as you can put in there is good. i have twelve cfl's. and i have a 600w hps arriving any day. when it arrives im not gonna take the cfl's out, im gonna use them all as supplemental lighting. do the same


adding that 600w hps to the cfl's,is like putting your model airplane next to a 747.cfl's are no good when you use HID's.


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## SayWord (Nov 18, 2008)

thats not true. theyre good when u put them lower off to the sides to stimulate lower growth while the hps is on top of them.


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## purpdaddy (Nov 18, 2008)

SayWord said:


> thats not true. theyre good when u put them lower off to the sides to stimulate lower growth while the hps is on top of them.


CFL's are just not a good choice for side lighting when using HID lamps.


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## tusseltussel (Nov 18, 2008)

purpdaddy said:


> CFL's are just not a good choice for side lighting when using HID lamps.


if you need side lighting cfls will work why are you saying this prove it cfls will work for side lighting.. personally i think if you grow your plant right you shouldnt need side lighting but if you need it cfls will do the job


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## purpdaddy (Nov 18, 2008)

tusseltussel said:


> if you need side lighting cfls will work why are you saying this prove it cfls will work for side lighting.. personally i think if you grow your plant right you shouldnt need side lighting but if you need it cfls will do the job


Thank you....thats what i was trying to get at.
If you are already using HID lighting,Mylar or just flat white paint the walls to distribute light properly and bye bye cfl's.
Prove it??
i have nothing to prove,,ive grown under cfl's and hid.You experiment with it.I dont have time for that.


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## KaliKitsune (Nov 18, 2008)

Depends. Some studies suggest that a balanced lighting (say HPS for the flowering but use 6500K fluoros for side lighting/spectrum enhancement) results in better growth and production.

When I get my 400w HPS working, I'll use it as the top light and my T5HO system for side lighting to make a huge light 'box'


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## purpdaddy (Nov 18, 2008)

Now yes that will work indefinitely!Its a small crop. if you got 2 or 3 600w. hids burnin,theres no point in using cfls,you just need proper reflective material on the walls.
And i am not nocking cfl's in any way cause they are very useful if you use the correct ones at the correct time.They are great for vegging and clones!


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## Barncle Bill (Nov 20, 2008)

I am running 1 six bulb HO T5 lights. That come out to 30,000 lums of 3000K light. This is for an 11 sqrft grow box. That equates to 2900 lums per sqrft. Is that enough light for flowering? I am running 8 plants with LST to maximize the room. Does anyone have any *really good results with that much light and T5 setups?* My last grow was with a 4 t5 ho system and it was ok.. but i would have like to see better results. Here is a pic of my last grow using only T5s


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## South Texas (Nov 20, 2008)

I agree with Purp.


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## purpdaddy (Nov 20, 2008)

Thank you.There is no point if you have the proper reflective materia surrounding the plants.Works a hell of alot better.


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## KaliKitsune (Nov 20, 2008)

Hey BarnacleBill

I've had great results with T5HO lighting. I use it for growing all sorts of plants. I've got all sorts of stuff besides pot growing in my closet and it all thrives.

What I'm *REALLY* curious about is the stuff used in stadium lighting. Hydrargyrum-iodide lighting. It has almost the same color temperature as the sun, and outputs UV radiation as well (but it only required to have a plate-glass filter, which can be removed for plant UVB exposure) 

Hydrargyrum medium-arc iodide lamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## herballuvmonkey (Nov 20, 2008)

You should be o.k. dude. I try to strive at a minimum for 3k lumens per sq/ft. I've never gone under it no matter what type of light I used but I've also never used t-5s. they seem kinda expensive for the output that you get. Supposedly they put out less heat but the big cfls can put out some heat in a small space so i'm not sure the t5's would be worth it seeing that they are HO. I say go to HPS at some time and get the full 50k lumens for your spot. You would be puttting somewhere in the range of 45k lmns per sq ft. Your grwth will xplode and you wont be using anymore or much more power. if ur scared of the heat factor get a fan to suck it out or a cool tube .


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## purpdaddy (Nov 20, 2008)

herballuvmonkey said:


> You should be o.k. dude. I try to strive at a minimum for 3k lumens per sq/ft. I've never gone under it no matter what type of light I used but I've also never used t-5s. they seem kinda expensive for the output that you get. Supposedly they put out less heat but the big cfls can put out some heat in a small space so i'm not sure the t5's would be worth it seeing that they are HO. I say go to HPS at some time and get the full 50k lumens for your spot. You would be puttting somewhere in the range of 45k lmns per sq ft. Your grwth will xplode and you wont be using anymore or much more power. if ur scared of the heat factor get a fan to suck it out or a cool tube .


 yea i got a 400w hid setup in a cool tube and i can lower it to like 12 inches and not burn.Works well!


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## Barncle Bill (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks for all the great advice. The lights i have are a gift from a guy that did all the warehouse for me.. So i didn"t pay anything for them.. they are $300 a pice...so i can't complain. I am looking into a 400w hps.. Heat is a little issue and so is hight. I am LST the ladies but even with that, i only have 70in to work with... and with 8 plants that might be pushing the limit of that 400w lamp. With the t5s I can get the plants all the with in 1 in without burn.. as long as they don't touch. i will post some pics of the set up so you guys could see what i am talking about. Thanks for all your help.. and i love this site!!!


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## Barncle Bill (Nov 20, 2008)

Hey BarnacleBill

I've had great results with T5HO lighting. I use it for growing all sorts of plants. I've got all sorts of stuff besides pot growing in my closet and it all thrives.

What I'm *REALLY* curious about is the stuff used in stadium lighting. Hydrargyrum-iodide lighting. It has almost the same color temperature as the sun, and outputs UV radiation as well (but it only required to have a plate-glass filter, which can be removed for plant UVB exposure) 

Kali, 
l
That might be a great idea.. i looked into this light a little more. The only thing is that it does not have a good range on the spectrum.. Most of it is 5000K to 6000K only. So that would work for veg growth but for flowering... it might be a little hard.. thats not to say it can't be done. They do put out a lot of like.. 100 lums per watt.. thats like a hps. What kind of range do they run in...do you know? Keep me posted if you find something new..


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## KaliKitsune (Nov 21, 2008)

5400K is the color temperature of noon sunlight. I'd think plants would do well for vegging under it, what you need to do is see the actual spectral bands. This type of light does have some red emission, and the color of the lamp itself (just went to look at one at the nearby high school stadium) has some red to it. It may not be optimal for flowering, like a CMH bulb would be, but it would do the job, and the extra UVB emissions will help with trichrome production.

I'm hoping to get ahold of one to test it out. Just judging from what I see, it should do an adequate job, probably better than fluorescents of equivalent wattage.


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## purpdaddy (Nov 21, 2008)

KaliKitsune said:


> 5400K is the color temperature of noon sunlight. I'd think plants would do well for vegging under it, what you need to do is see the actual spectral bands. This type of light does have some red emission, and the color of the lamp itself (just went to look at one at the nearby high school stadium) has some red to it. It may not be optimal for flowering, like a CMH bulb would be, but it would do the job, and the extra UVB emissions will help with trichrome production.
> 
> I'm hoping to get ahold of one to test it out. Just judging from what I see, it should do an adequate job, probably better than fluorescents of equivalent wattage.


Man im hearin all this talk about the lights.Why dont one of yall get one and see how it works..N.ever know you might start a new trend of lighting.I say go for it!


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## KaliKitsune (Nov 21, 2008)

When I get the money to obtain one of those lights, I will test it out.


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## Barncle Bill (Nov 21, 2008)

OK here is the set up i have and the light system that i talked about. Like i said before. Its T5 HO 6 lamp hood, The box has 2 sections. The lower is for veg and clones and the upper is for flowering only. 

Lower has 6 veg lights that seem to work very well (walmart @ $8 a pice) 
Lights are on a 24/7 cycle. 

The upper is has the HO T5s that can be lowerd to within an inch of the plants. 
if needed the lower section is removalble and i can have upto 70" of growth. 

All controled by thermostat and a 4" inline vortex fan that is attached to a 6" X 20" carbon filter that move about 80 to 100 cf. 

This is all inclosed in a sealed air tight box on wheels for easy transport. 

This whole project at the current time has run me less then $500 but i did not pay for the lights. with lights it would be just shy of 1K. 

So my question is... it this enought light for 8 plants..or do i go with HPS.. and might run into heat issues

I could always get a cool tube.. I found 150w HPS for $20 bucks each.. that is an insane price.. 2 would be more then enough i would assume. 

Let me know. Thanks guys.


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## KaliKitsune (Nov 21, 2008)

So far looks like you've done a nice job on the box construction. Looks tidy and neat, and your lighting is more than sufficient for flowering if you're running the 3000K bulbs.

The veg section could prolly stand to be a lil taller but that's personal preferences there.


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## Barncle Bill (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm going the LST so i think i should be ok... but i can always raise it as it does open up. Thanks for all your support. Send some of your work.. i would love to see your set up. I want a green house...lol


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## Jimky (Nov 21, 2008)

im a n00b i bought a 70w hps floodlight thing at home depot, whats a ballast and do i need one?


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## KaliKitsune (Nov 21, 2008)

Jimky said:


> im a n00b i bought a 70w hps floodlight thing at home depot, whats a ballast and do i need one?


Just Fucking Google It


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## Barncle Bill (Nov 21, 2008)

Here is a nice HPS all set up for you.. all you have to do is just buy it... lol and hook it up. 

http://www.e-conolight.com/Product/EProductDetail.asp?ProductFamilyID=7&FGNumber=E-MT6H151G

Can't beat $20


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## guitarman7311 (Nov 27, 2008)

Leds suk face it, Ive never seen a healthy plant grown under led. There all skimpy and sick lookin.


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## KaliKitsune (Nov 27, 2008)

guitarman7311 said:


> Leds suk face it, Ive never seen a healthy plant grown under led. There all skimpy and sick lookin.


I grow herbs that don't require lots of light, more quality of light, just fine under LEDs. They're good for orchids as well, where quality of light is important because to get them to flower they need less than 10 hours of light a day, and any intense amount of light from an HID will hurt the blooms.

But for anything with dense foliage, yes, I think LEDs aren't the way to go. Penetration is important.


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## jordisgarden (Dec 12, 2008)

just wondering i grew a few plants under a 4 ft 2 tube floro and they came out great, i went out to home cheapo and bought three 100 watt high pres sodium lamps and placed them around my plants. will this help to encourage growth on the lower branches? the only dissapointment from the floros was that i thought the buds could have been thicker and taken up more of the branches?


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 12, 2008)

rickythepitbull said:


> just wondering i grew a few plants under a 4 ft 2 tube floro and they came out great, i went out to home cheapo and bought three 100 watt high pres sodium lamps and placed them around my plants. will this help to encourage growth on the lower branches? the only dissapointment from the floros was that i thought the buds could have been thicker and taken up more of the branches?


The HPS lights will help out immensely.


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## purpdaddy (Dec 12, 2008)

rickythepitbull said:


> just wondering i grew a few plants under a 4 ft 2 tube floro and they came out great, i went out to home cheapo and bought three 100 watt high pres sodium lamps and placed them around my plants. will this help to encourage growth on the lower branches? the only dissapointment from the floros was that i thought the buds could have been thicker and taken up more of the branches?


 yes that will deffinitely encourage lower budspots and have a more "bushier" plant!And thats what you want.


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## drynroasty (Dec 12, 2008)

Looks rockin!!! I would eat off that...


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## Single White Pistol (Dec 13, 2008)

Mjoestic said:


> i got a small closet air in air out is ok the temp during light on hours are 85F lights off 75F everything is going well i took my mother plants off 18/6 and pushed them to bud 12/12 i just got a hydro system built and will start from seeds . i got a small 150watt Hps light flowring my mothers now and seedlings under fluro in rw blocks my question is how close should i keep my HPS light to my mother plant while flowering and when i swittch it to my hydro unit can i use the same distance any info helpful i use to use all fluros now starting hps but small wattage for small 1-3 plants any help thanks..


Yo, I use a 150W HPS. I'm almost a month into flowering and I keep a fan on the light. Sometimes the leaves are even touching the glass and it's cool, although you don't want that. As close as possible without touching the bulb or glass as song as you have a fan blowing the heat off the light. 

Works for me. I just hope it's enough wattage.


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## Single White Pistol (Dec 13, 2008)

So, I'm about a month into flower... How bad is it to pull them out of the tent for a few minutes to water and have a look at the buds under incandescent lights? I water them in the bath tub and I want to have a look at the buds


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## SayWord (Dec 13, 2008)

fine man. dont do it regularly n get them bak asap


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## greenacres (Dec 13, 2008)

no prob jus cant wait for that harvest huh? are they talking to ya ?


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## Single White Pistol (Dec 14, 2008)

Hahahahahahaaa!!! I love this shit. I really do. I'm on the edge of my seat everyday.


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## Jester88 (Dec 14, 2008)

nice post really informative


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## pastojibaro (Dec 15, 2008)

i was wondering if anyone has information on LED's for growing. i am going to have my first indoor grow and i want to match my outdoor production. Any information will be thanked


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 15, 2008)

pastojibaro said:


> i was wondering if anyone has information on LED's for growing. i am going to have my first indoor grow and i want to match my outdoor production. Any information will be thanked


NOTHING indoors matches outdoor production unless the indoor area is a greenhouse. Sorry, you just don't beat a giant floating fusion reactor. You can't. 

LED will work for light vegging unless you get a bunch and position and aim them to cover the area that overhead LEDs don't penetrate to. If you do the lighting like that you can then have a fair bush. As for flowering, you will have a yield that just can't compare, you WILL have to supplement with something else.


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## themoose (Dec 19, 2008)

how many plants can be grown under 1 400w hps, LST style?


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## wesnile20 (Dec 19, 2008)

Wat Brand Flo tubes would u recomend for me to get in the flowering stage and how many watts? wat bout Grolux?.. i herd highpressure soduim lights are the best for flowering but i dont got that kinda money yet..


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## purpdaddy (Dec 19, 2008)

wesnile20 said:


> Wat Brand Flo tubes would u recomend for me to get in the flowering stage and how many watts? wat bout Grolux?.. i herd highpressure soduim lights are the best for flowering but i dont got that kinda money yet..


 Then if you cant go HPS,,,go compact flourescents! Thats the next best thing.They dont take in as much energy and you can get a nice harvest if you have enough of them.i used the 150w. replacements and they did just fine!


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## winkdogg420 (Dec 19, 2008)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? Go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. They are all over large site.


are you from the u.s.?? All the wobble lights i see are giant cfls?? I was wonderiing if wobble lights were different other places??

Winkdogg


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 19, 2008)

themoose said:


> how many plants can be grown under 1 400w hps, LST style?


Up to nine with good proper training.


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## wesnile20 (Dec 19, 2008)

KOO KOO yea imma look for them 150Watts right now i jus got 2 lil cool white. n one soft white GE n there all 25Watts so that ant enough.. imma go out n look for some warm white cause my plants big it needs to be n the flower stage budd n hairs appearing..but only cause i been giveing it more dark time im assumeing...right?


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## zurces (Dec 20, 2008)

I thiNk i have a lps light how can i tell if it is or not? It looks like the end of a bat 
? And say think because it came with my first set up and i have not changed it in 2 years.............yes i know i know


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## We Love 1 (Dec 21, 2008)

1000w HID lights are great! 

Everyone should be growing medicine! Overgrow the gov'ts! 

Check out My signature to learn the secrets!

The world will be educated! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6qG4yn-Ps


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## theo99cannabis (Dec 29, 2008)

how do i post my own threads... i cant figure it out..


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## SayWord (Dec 30, 2008)

theres a new thread button somewhere


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## lorenzo08 (Dec 30, 2008)

theo99cannabis said:


> how do i post my own threads... i cant figure it out..



https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/


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## kiepeel (Jan 1, 2009)

100 watt bulb is what i use on constant grow prosses


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## all41 (Jan 1, 2009)

hey everyone im new to the community and im a curious about the hole eletricity thing and i was wondering to light my 400w hps couldn't i light it with copper and a battery lets just say rig it myself??? im open to all info give me your opinions!!!


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 2, 2009)

all41 said:


> hey everyone im new to the community and im a curious about the hole eletricity thing and i was wondering to light my 400w hps couldn't i light it with copper and a battery lets just say rig it myself??? im open to all info give me your opinions!!!


wtf have you been smoking. you don't want to mess with high voltage like that, very dangerous. it would be possible with the right equipment and a large truck battery, but the battery would be dead within an hour, if not sooner. after the first day of charging and recharging the battery after going dead and the light going out for a few hours, the battery would be trashed and wouldn't hold a charge anymore. summing it up, hps lights use a lot of power. a lot more then you can get out of a battery.


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## dillfingersbob (Jan 4, 2009)

very informative posts by all thank you so much


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## tyke1973 (Jan 4, 2009)

Very informative?Answered alot of things that i wanted to know thinking of doing a new grow room this year and thought that i might use flouresents just for cloneing and keepingmy motherplants.i agree top post nice one


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## daniel9guitar (Jan 6, 2009)

I have a 400watt HPS and am just growing under that atm. Has anyone grown only with HPS? I am going to get a MH bulb, my digital ballast takes both types of lights, but I was just wondering if anyone has grown succesfully with HPS only. Thanks


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## tusseltussel (Jan 7, 2009)

daniel9guitar said:


> I have a 400watt HPS and am just growing under that atm. Has anyone grown only with HPS? I am going to get a MH bulb, my digital ballast takes both types of lights, but I was just wondering if anyone has grown succesfully with HPS only. Thanks


 it can be done, some say it will streatch your plant but when i did it i had tight node spaceing. its also been said that you will get more females with the mh during veg, idk bout that one either, when i did it i got 3 out of 5 females......... if its what ya got use it or pick up a mh conversion bulb


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## born2killspam (Jan 7, 2009)

They do make HID bike lamps designed to run off dc batteries, but the ballasts are almost always electronic.. A magnetic ballast needs AC to make it go.. Its not magnetic field that induces current exactly, a change in a magnetic field induces current..


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## hippiepudz024 (Jan 9, 2009)

me and my friend are having a grow off, he is using a 250 watt hps and a waterfarm and i am using a 400 watt hps and 22 gallon bag of soil, check it out


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## Rayshon A26 (Jan 10, 2009)

as far as light for plant growth is concerned, would it be better to use ballasts or grow lamps. also which websites are legit for buying seeds over the internet, this will be my first time doing some growing and i dont wanna get caught up dealing with a site thats prohibit by law


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## tusseltussel (Jan 11, 2009)

Rayshon A26 said:


> as far as light for plant growth is concerned, would it be better to use ballasts or grow lamps. also which websites are legit for buying seeds over the internet, this will be my first time doing some growing and i dont wanna get caught up dealing with a site thats prohibit by law


 you want a balasted hid grow lamp mh or cfl for veg and hps for flower www.htgsupply.com

ive been growing bagseed for 8 years so i cant help with where t get em


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 12, 2009)

Rayshon A26 said:


> as far as light for plant growth is concerned, would it be better to use ballasts or grow lamps. also which websites are legit for buying seeds over the internet, this will be my first time doing some growing and i dont wanna get caught up dealing with a site thats prohibit by law


a ballast is just part of a light that powers it. you want a blueish light for veging, and an orangeish light for flowering to simulate the color of the sky and sun in the fall. you can use 6400K cfl's for veging and 2700K cfl's for flowering, but you'll need a lot of light bulbs, 2 or 3 per plant, 100 or 150 watt bulbs or bigger. hid lights are better because they put out intense amounts of light and use less power then a bunch of cfl bulbs. metal halide for veging and high pressure sodium for flowering. you can use cfl's for veg and get a high pressure sodium for flowering, or some people just use a high pressure sodium for the entire grow, from seed to harvest. if you want a good harvest, you'll need a lot of light. if you walk out of your grow room and can't see anything then you're doing good.

I've ordered from htgsupply.com with a good experience. I will definitely buy from them again. I've ordered seeds from nirvana-shop.com too. they should both be good companies to order from, just don't have it sent to the address you'll be growing at.


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## drynroasty (Jan 14, 2009)

All41


> hey everyone im new to the community and im a curious about the hole eletricity thing and i was wondering to light my 400w hps couldn't i light it with copper and a battery lets just say rig it myself??? im open to all info give me your opinions!!!,


my friend has a 172 watt hps hooked up to his hamster wheel and he trained his 3 hamsters to take turns running for 12 hours a day during the flowering cycle. If you have time, you could do that. Or get a farret, they are smarter i heard...


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## snickerboy1 (Jan 14, 2009)

i have a problem useing the write light.when i transfer my clones that grow under floresents under the 400w hps they all just keep burning up,what is the answer??.thank you.


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## IceWaterBong87 (Jan 14, 2009)

wanna read this when im sober


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## tusseltussel (Jan 15, 2009)

snickerboy1 said:


> i have a problem useing the write light.when i transfer my clones that grow under floresents under the 400w hps they all just keep burning up,what is the answer??.thank you.


its not a lighting problem its a grower problem(you)


how old are the clones how long have they been rooted do they have a big enough root system to support growth,,, have they started growing again yet, how close is your light to them probably too close too soon stick with the cfl til you see new growth it could just be a pain in the ass strain to clon aswell


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## lorenzo08 (Jan 15, 2009)

IceWaterBong87 said:


> wanna read this when im sober


you'll probably laugh then too..


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## drynroasty (Jan 15, 2009)

> All41
> Quote:
> hey everyone im new to the community and im a curious about the hole eletricity thing and i was wondering to light my 400w hps couldn't i light it with copper and a battery lets just say rig it myself??? im open to all info give me your opinions!!!,
> my friend has a 172 watt hps hooked up to his hamster wheel and he trained his 3 hamsters to take turns running for 12 hours a day during the flowering cycle. If you have time, you could do that. Or get a farret, they are smarter i heard...
> __________________


Problem is that Ferrets are illegal in California. I think it is because they are so smart they will trick their trendy owners (like all the people who bought those bug-eyed looking Chihuahuas that have that complex and think they are 12 feet tall like Napoleon Bonaparte) and get free and start a rodent revolution and eat all the "goddamn chickens". At least the chickens can spin around in their cages and fight back a little, but if the ferret has access to ACME (like Wile E. Coyote) those chickens are done for, quick-like...

If ferrets we legal in California there'd be ferrets running down the powerlines, it'd be like their freeway once they scared the crows away (sound like another cartoon). We'd all have to wear hats and carry wiffle-bats... lol


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## born2killspam (Jan 15, 2009)

> but if the ferret has access to ACME (like Wile E. Coyote) those chickens are done for, quick-like...


You never actually watched Road-Runner cartoons did you?


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## wallycork (Jan 15, 2009)

Wats up.. Considering ordering this setup and was wondering on what you guys think.

http://www.greenshorticulture.co.uk/details.asp?productid=1257&subcat=470&cat=182

My grow space is limited so ill have 4 plants. Probal indicas grown in dwc

Would that lighting be enough??Thanks


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## drynroasty (Jan 17, 2009)

wallycork



> You never actually watched Road-Runner cartoons did you?


Yes I did watch them, and they are still amongst favorites. If you are alluding to the notion that the coyote never caught the bird, I understand. But in California we just voted on prop 2 (I think) which brings into law that chickens raised for food must now have room to stand, turn, and do some yoga, as opposed to the past cages that didn't allow much movement (even more cruel).


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## tusseltussel (Jan 18, 2009)

wallycork said:


> Wats up.. Considering ordering this setup and was wondering on what you guys think.
> 
> http://www.greenshorticulture.co.uk/details.asp?productid=1257&subcat=470&cat=182
> 
> ...


400 watt digi ballast would work great for 4 plants, best in a 3x3 room but will do a 4x4


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## saint Superior (Jan 20, 2009)

good info in this post, but has anyone used those LED grow lights? im intrigued by them and was hoping someone can tell me everything i want to know


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## SayWord (Jan 20, 2009)

everything you need to know about LEDs:




*dont use them*


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## nfhu88 (Jan 20, 2009)

yeah you might want to wait 5 years before they come out with ones that will be high tech enough to sub HPS/MH.


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## KaliKitsune (Jan 21, 2009)

LEDs are fine for vegetative growth.

For flowering, they are USELESS. Get a real bulb that tosses off enough UVB to give you a fucking TAN. Nothing less than T5HO.


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## Love4Ganja (Jan 22, 2009)

Are the bigger (in diameter) fluros really that much better than the skinnier ones? And the ''daylight'' colored bulbs are good for veg but will they make my plants flower good too?


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## KaliKitsune (Jan 22, 2009)

No, the skinnier T5HO lights are far better than the fatter T12 and T8 residential ones. And daylight is better for grow but will do a fair job for flowering, as daylight spectrum bulbs put out just a tiny extra bit of UVB light so you'll have good trichomes, but smaller buds.


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## Love4Ganja (Jan 23, 2009)

KaliKitsune said:


> No, the skinnier T5HO lights are far better than the fatter T12 and T8 residential ones. And daylight is better for grow but will do a fair job for flowering, as daylight spectrum bulbs put out just a tiny extra bit of UVB light so you'll have good trichomes, but smaller buds.


 well since im being forced to use tube fluros, would it be a good idea to switch to a warm white for flowering


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## KaliKitsune (Jan 23, 2009)

Love4Ganja said:


> well since im being forced to use tube fluros, would it be a good idea to switch to a warm white for flowering


Yes. Right now I run a combination of four 6500K 'daylight' bulbs and four 3000K 'warm white. Next grow I will see what solid warm shite produces.


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## Love4Ganja (Jan 23, 2009)

what would the difference be though?


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## born2killspam (Jan 23, 2009)

Basically you get more photons/energy with redder light, and as long as a photon has 'enough' energy to power photosynthesis, any extra energy is pretty much wasted.. And the average photon from a redder bulb has enough..
Beyond that, plants have evolved to respond to various light conditions, and redder light happens during flowering season..
There are other processes at work though beyond basic photosynthesis, so certain colours of light may activate various processes.. I'm a huge fan of having MH lights in the flower room along with HPS for overall taste/potency..


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## KaliKitsune (Jan 23, 2009)

"Basically you get more photons/energy with redder light"

Not true. Blue is higher energy by many orders over red light. Red is like 1.2 eV while blue is more like 10.2 eV


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## Love4Ganja (Jan 23, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Basically you get more photons/energy with redder light, and as long as a photon has 'enough' energy to power photosynthesis, any extra energy is pretty much wasted.. And the average photon from a redder bulb has enough..
> Beyond that, plants have evolved to respond to various light conditions, and redder light happens during flowering season..
> There are other processes at work though beyond basic photosynthesis, so certain colours of light may activate various processes.. I'm a huge fan of having MH lights in the flower room along with HPS for overall taste/potency..


soo redder bulbs=bigger buds? Whats the advantage


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## Love4Ganja (Jan 23, 2009)

Ok i have a daylight bulb now. Is it really worth it to get a warm white bulb for flowering. Thats all i was gettin at


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## KaliKitsune (Jan 23, 2009)

Yes, get a warm white for flowering. Red is used for flowering and fruiting, blue, being higher energy, is used for growth.


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## born2killspam (Jan 23, 2009)

KaliKitsune said:


> "Basically you get more photons/energy with redder light"
> 
> Not true. Blue is higher energy by many orders over red light. Red is like 1.2 eV while blue is more like 10.2 eV


Thats exactly my point, exacept the ratio is more like 1.5:1, not many orders.. Blue photons take more energy to create, therefore you can create more red photons with a given amount of energy than you can blue photons.. The photon/energy relationship follows E = h/wavelength (where h=6.6*10^34m^2*kg/s)..


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## born2killspam (Jan 23, 2009)

BTW, by red I mean like 2700K, by blue I mean lik 6500K+..


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## AK47StEvY (Jan 24, 2009)

You should technically have an equal amount of red and blue light along with orange and clear white. Just use MH 4000k-6500k(vegetative) and HPS 2200k-2700k(flowering) Nothing Will go wrong with that light regime. No matter the watts its much more efficient and less costly. Gauranteed I believe. I use one 150watt HPS light fixture for two plants and i get an easy 2 to 3 z's from each plant, not to mention... CO2 added to the equation.


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## born2killspam (Jan 24, 2009)

All HIDs provide a colour range of photons.. I have no idea what you're basing your costing claim on, but its pretty baseless..
Also, I don't know if 150W over 2 plants with those proportions is intense enough to warrant CO2 addition.. Probably won't hurt, but probably isn't adding any punch either..


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## g0dloki (Jan 24, 2009)

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## THE NIZZLE (Jan 25, 2009)

hi im a newbie here and just starting my first grow ive got some kit cos i had little go at it a while ago but now i got more room and time i can do it proply now, i was just wondering if any1 could help, i have a 125w e40 energy saving bulb red one and just wondering if i could use this for my veg stage and would i need a higher watt bulb for my mothering stage im trying to make it as cheap as possible on the electric, if any1 could help would be very greatfull thanks


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## KaliKitsune (Jan 25, 2009)

THE NIZZLE said:


> hi im a newbie here and just starting my first grow ive got some kit cos i had little go at it a while ago but now i got more room and time i can do it proply now, i was just wondering if any1 could help, i have a 125w e40 energy saving bulb red one and just wondering if i could use this for my veg stage and would i need a higher watt bulb for my mothering stage im trying to make it as cheap as possible on the electric, if any1 could help would be very greatfull thanks


Read our growFAQ located at the top of our page.


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## pokesmotsrh (Jan 26, 2009)

everything i need to know about lighting thank you!


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## elenex7 (Jan 27, 2009)

if lumens and all that stuff isn't important why do they label that information all over the boxes?


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## tusseltussel (Jan 27, 2009)

elenex7 said:


> if lumens and all that stuff isn't important why do they label that information all over the boxes?


 i consider it very impostant... when its unimportant is when you use cfl's because lumens dnt add up you just get more points of light kinda like when you turn a radio real loud than turn the tv on it doesnt make the volume on the radio get louder


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## born2killspam (Jan 27, 2009)

That has nothing to do with lumens imparticular though.. My point about lumens/plants is in respect to absorbtion/reflection coefficients, not intensity plots over an area..
Lumens are guaged in terms of human sensitivity.. We see 1W of 550nm light perhaps 20x as brightly as we see 1W of 670nm light..
Plants on the otherhand see wavelengths almost oppositely.. They see longer/shorter wavelengths many times more efficiently than they see 500-600nm light..
So 550nm light carries about 680lm/W (but is pretty useless to plants) while 680nm light only carries about 40 lumens/W (but 40lumens of 670nm light is equally desirable to a plant as 680lumens of 550nm light)..
Like I said, when comparing similar spectrums, lumens are fine to use for comparision since its more like a scaling factor with matching spectrums, but the amount of photosynthesis enabled by 10000lumens of HPS light will not correlate directly to the amount of photosynthesis enabled by 10000lumens of MH light.. Making lumens/W the dumbest of all numbers to give creedence to in horticulture..
Your complaint about light superposition with cfls actually has nothing to do with lumens, but rather lux.. (Or better still, W/m^2)..
Light units and math were concieved in terms of point sources, not spiral tubes.. Its the geometry of cfls that makes it difficult to jack up the intensity.. Not only are alot of those lumens going to be converted to heat bouncing around the interior od the coil, but if you look at the diagrams in that pdf, you'll notice that the intensity plots are not designed in a way that facilitiates peak intensity addition.. (eg intensity is lower around the 130° and 230° angles, and that is where you need effective light casting if you want multiple sources to sum up effeiciently to a higher intensity..)

http://btech.lbl.gov/papers/37010.pdf


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## KaliKitsune (Jan 27, 2009)

elenex7 said:


> if lumens and all that stuff isn't important why do they label that information all over the boxes?


Because they're for LIGHTING, not GROWING.

Lumens is a measurement of GREEN LIGHT that human eyes can perceive. Plants don't use green light which is why we see most plants as green, so lumens is pretty much a useless measurement. It's only going to give you an idea of how much potential light you *MIGHT* output in the green spectrum. Lumens cannot be applied to red or blue light.


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 1, 2009)

Alright quick question. I have two 95 watt compact actinic daylight(6500k and 7500k) flourescents and two 30 watt 4200k floros. Since my grow closet is too small for a HPS bulb, because it gets exceedingly hott with one 150w bulb, will these flourescents promote good flowering for two plants? So far my plants have been under 2 weeks of flowering regime and have a lot of pistils and leaf nodes everywhere. Im growing one female AK47 and one Lemon Haze and they are both blooming very well. I know that my color temp should be below 3200k for flowerin but this is all i have for the next 5 weeks.


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## GypsyBush (Feb 1, 2009)

aircool the light...

I use a 600 hps in a 36"x20"x54" tent...


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## Lanshayol (Feb 1, 2009)

I have a 400w MH ballast system .

I am just curious .. if I were to buy a 400w HPS sodium bulb and hook it to this same ballast , could that cause a problem ?


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## born2killspam (Feb 1, 2009)

Yea, air-cool for sure.. you'll get more stray heat from any number of watts floro than you will from the same watts HID.. A decently managed 150W hps should be able to run in 5-6 cuft I'm guessing as long as you've got the height..


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## GypsyBush (Feb 1, 2009)

Lanshayol said:


> I have a 400w MH ballast system .
> 
> I am just curious .. if I were to buy a 400w HPS sodium bulb and hook it to this same ballast , could that cause a problem ?


DO NOT!

Ballast and bulb MUST match... PERIOD...

The End​


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## trailerparkboy (Feb 2, 2009)

i plan on using a 2ft 4 tube t5 with 2 6500k an 2 3000k 24 watt bulbs for my first grow of 3 plants in a closet is this enough or am i dreamin any feedback much aprreciated


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## born2killspam (Feb 2, 2009)

Its not alot, but it might grow the plants.. Alot will depend on how you train the tops, but don't expect much for yield..


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## trailerparkboy (Feb 2, 2009)

ok thanks i do have room to add lights any suggestions on training the tops


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## born2killspam (Feb 2, 2009)

Well tubes make it really tough to get much foiliage within the sweetspot of the light unless its make really even with a bunch of stout plants like sog etc..


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## trailerparkboy (Feb 2, 2009)

guess ill stick some more lights in then thanks again


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## born2killspam (Feb 2, 2009)

Until you hit 50W+ HID per sqft, always think along those lines if its feasible..


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 2, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Yea, air-cool for sure.. you'll get more stray heat from any number of watts floro than you will from the same watts HID.. A decently managed 150W hps should be able to run in 5-6 cuft I'm guessing as long as you've got the height..


 Yeah thats the problem. I dont have more than 5 feet of space and my plant is easily 4 foot tall right now. The compact floros are very powerful it seems. The Ak is just happy as could be with these two bulbs. THey emmit about 3500 lumens each so I have a total of about 9000 lumens including the other two floros.


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## born2killspam (Feb 2, 2009)

Thats not alot.. Are you already flowering, or can you top them off nice and short?? Trees grow best outdoors, but growing a tree under flouro tubes is a worst case scenario..


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 2, 2009)

I already topped her off about 6 branches high and stopped growing upward, its been flowering for 2 weeks now, ill show you a picture later. This box was intended just for some short lemon haze to grow but i somehow got a seed form my AK batch and didnt epect to have a 5 foot plant but a two foot tall plant. My plans are screwed up but i cant get rid of a valuable ak47.


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 3, 2009)

So does any one think these compact floros(2 95watt daylight aquarium bulbs) are good enough to flower 2 plants with?


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## vlunatrainwreck (Feb 3, 2009)

does any body know if you leave the lights on longer,do you get more bud or less


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## tusseltussel (Feb 3, 2009)

vlunatrainwreck said:


> does any body know if you leave the lights on longer,do you get more bud or less


 12/12 is for flower and will give you the best results more light and bigger plants is what will give you more bud


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## Yuma (Feb 4, 2009)

Great Thread, OK here is a question I have not seen yet. I ride Motorcycles and have changed all the headlights to XENON-KRYPTON 5200K HID bulbs (Blue) The company also has 3000k HID Bulbs (Purple). Now has anyone ever tryed growing with this type of light 12v. If not this ol Biker is going to try, maybe start something new."Paz" (Peace)​


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## trailerparkboy (Feb 4, 2009)

all i can find for daylight cfls in my town is 4100k (i went everywhere) an i dont realy wanna wait to have 6500k shipped should i go with the 4100k or jusy use all 2700k the whole way through


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## SMOKEYVURP (Feb 4, 2009)

Hey Trailer... Im kind of new at these Forum's, but Im really serious about getting a good size basement system started. If you could point me in the right direction as far as information on everything from medium to lights if u know what I mean. It just seems that the prices in my area(NorthEast - U.S.) are clmbing like crazy. If U find a min and want to drop what knowledge & experiences you have on a new comer to the game, It could turn out good for everyone. My email is : [email protected]. I go by V if u are interested.


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## trailerparkboy (Feb 4, 2009)

im just about to start my 1st grow man so im in the same place as u but the how to grow marijuana thread by widow maker was really helpful its in the newbie forum i think also if ur worried about cash maybe look into cfls


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## ggvccs (Feb 4, 2009)

Hi people. I'm using GE MV lamp rated 250 watts for 2 plants. This is how a 4 week old looks like. Reckon it's not the best light, but it's what I have, it's easier and cheaper because it does not require a ballast. Opinion on this vs. using 3 42watt CFL's? Thought I'd just share the image, pic take w/ phone cam.

Also, notice the lower leaves... yellow spots and downward curling... ????????

Greetings from Caracas, Venezuela.


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## born2killspam (Feb 5, 2009)

Definately not stretching, thats for sure..


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 6, 2009)

It looks good, can you include cfls? 2 maybe


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## Greenisgold (Feb 8, 2009)

ggvccs said:


> Hi people. I'm using GE MV lamp rated 250 watts for 2 plants. This is how a 4 week old looks like. Reckon it's not the best light, but it's what I have, it's easier and cheaper because it does not require a ballast. Opinion on this vs. using 3 42watt CFL's? Thought I'd just share the image, pic take w/ phone cam.
> 
> Also, notice the lower leaves... yellow spots and downward curling... ????????
> 
> Greetings from Caracas, Venezuela.


 Is that a mercury vapor light, if so get rid of it as it is one of the worst lights to grow under. If it isn't then happy growing


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 9, 2009)

Greenisgold said:


> Is that a mercury vapor light, if so get rid of it as it is one of the worst lights to grow under. If it isn't then happy growing



Says who? Mercury Vapor lights were originally used in greenhouses. They're just horrible for POT.

For varied herbs and spices, a MV bulb is just fine.


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## born2killspam (Feb 9, 2009)

I'd actually like to try it during early vegging.. If they can facilitate extremely short internode length, I'd be willing to take the hit on PAR watts..


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## Greenisgold (Feb 9, 2009)

KaliKitsune said:


> Says who? Mercury Vapor lights were originally used in greenhouses. They're just horrible for POT.
> 
> For varied herbs and spices, a MV bulb is just fine.


Who's talking herbs and spices, were talking weed like you state. MV suck compared to almost every bulb on the market.
Put that plant under cfls as they have a better spectrum and are more efficient. The only good MV bulb is a free one, even then I would not use one.


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## born2killspam (Feb 9, 2009)

Its not all about photosynthetic power.. Different parts of the spectrum stimulate different growth patterns.. Same argument you made against MV could be made against MH since HPS exists.. But hardcore growers choose to use MH during vegging atleast..


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 9, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I'd actually like to try it during early vegging.. If they can facilitate extremely short internode length, I'd be willing to take the hit on PAR watts..


Thats what i was thinking. Naturally MV lights are dark blue usually which is perect for prevegging and germinating, especially effective during this time period of growth. Use metal Hylide for vegetative stage and HPS for flowering, the best light routine possible if you have the right bulbs. 

The temp goes like this; 5500k+ during germ/prevegg, 3500-5000k during prevegg/vegetative, and 2200k-3000k during preflowering and flowering. Anybody who reads this needs to try it on a single plant and compare it with a flowered plant with this routine and compare it with what you would usually have for your lighting and you will absolutely see a difference.


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## djroach (Feb 17, 2009)

Great tips!
I am in the planning stage so, I'm looking at my options. I am looking at a self contained grow cabinet 6' w 2'd and 6' h VS a grow tent 10'w, 5' d, and 6' h.
I like the cabinet because the accessories are built in it's incognito and it locks. A no brainier. But, I don't know what kind of yield it can produce (every 60 days). I would like to produce 1 to 2 pounds of bud every 60 days or so.
I have a space in the back of the garage to put the tent. it's not as incognito and I have to buy all the internal and exterior accessories. But it is a lot larger and will get me where I want to go.
I guess my question is how much bud can I produce in a grow cabinet?


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## GypsyBush (Feb 17, 2009)

*Things to know about Lighting...

**
Thing to know # Eleventeen* 

  
  

When you least expect it... even the brightest lights can go dark... and kill your circuit breaker... and freak you out... 

... glad there was no fire...

​


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## born2killspam (Feb 17, 2009)

djroach said:


> Great tips!
> I am in the planning stage so, I'm looking at my options. I am looking at a self contained grow cabinet 6' w 2'd and 6' h VS a grow tent 10'w, 5' d, and 6' h.
> I like the cabinet because the accessories are built in it's incognito and it locks. A no brainier. But, I don't know what kind of yield it can produce (every 60 days). I would like to produce 1 to 2 pounds of bud every 60 days or so.
> I have a space in the back of the garage to put the tent. it's not as incognito and I have to buy all the internal and exterior accessories. But it is a lot larger and will get me where I want to go.
> I guess my question is how much bud can I produce in a grow cabinet?


The only goal you should be setting at this point is to learn how to grow plants as well as they can be grown.. If you get a yield that makes you happy on your first grow then congrats, but no reputable grower on this forum will tell you how much to expect.. Its possible to hit your goal in either cabinet, not easy in the smaller one, but possible.. Seriously don't expect that until you know the ropes.. 
6' height can disappear REALLY fast.. Especially on a first grow.. You'll need to pre-empt that, and that means focusing on height control fairly early..


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 20, 2009)

If you set your grow box perfectly before growing than expect higher yeilds. 6 feet of space is enough for nearly any plant you will grow and there are ways to grow your plants shorter and really flippin bushy and produce a shit load of bud with the right lighting, temperature, humidity, CO2, nutrients etc. With 2 or 3 plants you can possibly get up 3 or 4 pounds of bud matter. Expect that to be the maximum though, You can produce more but only proffessional growers do it 'right'. Of coarse it ALL Depends on the strain in the beginning. Get 3 AK47 plants and you can produce up to 3lbs every 80 days. Look for rooting hormones as well. I dont use them but ive seen it be used and omg its amazing.


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## born2killspam (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm calling shinanegens.. A pound/plant indoors in 80 days ain't gonna happen no matter how good you are, or how sweet your setup is.. To pull that off you'd need to veg for a long time, and in the area you intend to flower, because you'd need to grow them entwined in a scrog to stand any chance..
With 2 grow rooms you 'might' be able to pull it off if you vegged one room while the other flowered.. You're still far better off with more small plants..
And its true that 6' is enough to grow any plant if you know how to control it from day one.. But things can get out of hand REALLY fast if you aren't on the ball.. Figure 18" for root systems, 8" for the height of the actual light/reflector, 12" for space between tops & bulb.. Thats a minimum 3'+ consumed.. Some plants will get taller than that if they're vegged for 5 days.. You gotta know your plants.. Even experienced growers need to learn the nuances of new genetics as far as training solutions go.. Thats why permanent mother plants are so ideal.. After a few crops of the exact same clones you can peg the nuances down to a science..

Edit: To clarify on the space disappearing, some plants still want to stretch ALOT after you flip them to 12/12, and at that point you're between a rock and a hard place because topping/chopping and high stress in general after the flip will devastate yield..


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 20, 2009)

No you dont man, you have no clue do you? My last set up I had was a 6 x 3.5 x 3.5 with the perfect set up with a 600watt hps, 500 cfm intake and exhaust, humidifier and a 10 liter displacement CO2 canister with just regular nutrients and superphosphate and out of my 3 ak47s combined gave me in DRY weight 3.25 pounds of BUD not leaf, bud. The key to harvesting every 80 days that much weed is by having separate grow chambers, one for germinating and one for vegging, so there is always a plant germing always a plant vegging and always a plant flowering. By the time your flowering plants are done then your vegging plants should be ready to be put in the flower oven and the same with germing to vegging. I have already figured out how to easily produce 5 pounds every 80 days about(rough estimate could be less or more time). Im not trying to sound like an ass by arguing but im just trying to say that yes it is possible, and you should not just go doubting watever a person has to say im right on this one; because I have experienced my plants capabilites and obviously you have not.

It is true that the plants will stretch a lot while flowering, you must have and out look at whats going to happen so you do not burn or starve your plants of fresh air and CO2.


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## tusseltussel (Feb 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I'm calling shinanegens.. A pound/plant indoors in 80 days ain't gonna happen no matter how good you are, or how sweet your setup is.. To pull that off you'd need to veg for a long time, and in the area you intend to flower, because you'd need to grow them entwined in a scrog to stand any chance..
> With 2 grow rooms you 'might' be able to pull it off if you vegged one room while the other flowered.. You're still far better off with more small plants..
> And its true that 6' is enough to grow any plant if you know how to control it from day one.. But things can get out of hand REALLY fast if you aren't on the ball.. Figure 18" for root systems, 8" for the height of the actual light/reflector, 12" for space between tops & bulb.. Thats a minimum 3'+ consumed.. Some plants will get taller than that if they're vegged for 5 days.. You gotta know your plants.. Even experienced growers need to learn the nuances of new genetics as far as training solutions go.. Thats why permanent mother plants are so ideal.. After a few crops of the exact same clones you can peg the nuances down to a science..
> 
> Edit: To clarify on the space disappearing, some plants still want to stretch ALOT after you flip them to 12/12, and at that point you're between a rock and a hard place because topping/chopping and high stress in general after the flip will devastate yield..


i have definatly gotten a pound in 80 days off one plant easy you dnt need a super big room if you grow areo from seed and veg 20 days than flower for 60 with the right strain its quite simple.... not the best use of horizantal lighting but it can be done... areo grows quick... im back in soil now


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## born2killspam (Feb 20, 2009)

Like I said, with 2 rooms its perhaps doable, but you're then looking at half that yield per room per period.. Only thing I can think to say of your claim, is I'd probably be pretty miffed by what you consider 'DRY'.. Especially since you're talking about 'leaf free' AK47..
And as for tusseltussel, I'm torn.. I don't think 20 days vegging can pull that off with any plants I've seen, and I've never seen a respectable plant actually finish 60 days after 12/12.. Are there many pics on here of single 1lb indoor yielders?? I do agree that it isn't the best use of horizontal lighting though..


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## Inkslinger118 (Feb 20, 2009)

What is the best distance to keep the light from the tops of your plants.


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## born2killspam (Feb 20, 2009)

It really depends on the ventilation, genetics and light type.. Any closer than 12" with a 400W you'll probably regret.. I've never used 1kW's.. Don't shock them! Let them adjust to brighter light slowly.. Keep an eye on leaf edges.. If you lower them slowly enough then its harmless to let them tell you when its too close as long as you're vigilant..


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## Mahoney (Feb 20, 2009)

drynroasty said:


> Problem is that Ferrets are illegal in California. I think it is because they are so smart they will trick their trendy owners (like all the people who bought those bug-eyed looking Chihuahuas that have that complex and think they are 12 feet tall like Napoleon Bonaparte) and get free and start a rodent revolution and eat all the "goddamn chickens". At least the chickens can spin around in their cages and fight back a little, but if the ferret has access to ACME (like Wile E. Coyote) those chickens are done for, quick-like...
> 
> If ferrets we legal in California there'd be ferrets running down the powerlines, it'd be like their freeway once they scared the crows away (sound like another cartoon). We'd all have to wear hats and carry wiffle-bats... lol



That there's good shit.


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 21, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Like I said, with 2 rooms its perhaps doable, but you're then looking at half that yield per room per period.. Only thing I can think to say of your claim, is I'd probably be pretty miffed by what you consider 'DRY'.. Especially since you're talking about 'leaf free' AK47..
> And as for tusseltussel, I'm torn.. I don't think 20 days vegging can pull that off with any plants I've seen, and I've never seen a respectable plant actually finish 60 days after 12/12.. Are there many pics on here of single 1lb indoor yielders?? I do agree that it isn't the best use of horizontal lighting though..


You are very strange. Obviously you havent seen or smoked true Serious AK47. These plants yeild between 350 to 500 grams of dry weight bud, info given by the breeder himself. Now if you calculate that into ounces you get between 12.5oz---17.85oz. Now correct me if im wrong but... 16oz is a pound man. Oh by the way that is within easily 80 days with one plant thank you very much. Now if you know how to calculate 3 16oz plants you get 3 pounds of cannabis in 80 days in a 6ft tall x 3.5wide x 3.5deep cabinet with a 600watt-1000watt MH/HPS, including CO2, and temperatures around 75-78 degrees F* you will get that yeild easily, by flowering by the 5th or 6th week of vegetative growth, and you will be done with 7-9 weeks flowering with a grand total time period of 10-13 weeks, which is 70 to 91 days TOTAL. > Must I say more... i wont talk anymore, useless to continuosly prove my point.


PS- By having the multiple grow chambers you can harvest three pounds every 30 to 50 days because of the timing of plant growth and the plants growth stage. 

I find it very feasable to grow three pounds of bud from three plants every 80 or so days with one cabinet set up. Is is very important to prune and FIMing, super cropping and all of that to create very open and very bushed out plants to create the maximum of 32 colas on one plant, also if you are using the hydroponic set properly and efficiently then you will see even greater results; experiment with these techniques and you will see great yeilds usually all the time.


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## born2killspam (Feb 22, 2009)

> you get between 12.5oz---17.85oz


Dude which is it?? With a 600W or with a 1KW?? Now you're actually claiming up to 2.5g/Watt in that period?? You sound like you got your grow experience from a seedbank's strain description.. AK47 is great weed, and a relatively good yielder, but the leaf:bud ratio is pretty high..
If you're for real then you need a grow journal outlining this!!! You could teach the scene alot


> including CO2, and temperatures around 75-78 degrees F* you will get that yeild easily, by flowering by the 5th or 6th week of vegetative growth, and you will be done with 7-9 weeks flowering with a grand total time period of 10-13 weeks, which is 70 to 91 days TOTAL. > Must I say more... i wont talk anymore, useless to continuosly prove my point.


Yea I'd want to shut up and drift into the woodwork now too..


> I find it very feasable to grow three pounds of bud from three plants every 80 or so days with one cabinet set up. Is is very important to prune and FIMing, super cropping and all of that to create very open and very bushed out plants to create the maximum of 32 colas on one plant, also if you are using the hydroponic set properly and efficiently then you will see even greater results; experiment with these techniques and you will see great yeilds usually all the time.


So now you're getting 32 colas/plant?? Nice..


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 22, 2009)

Like I said if you do everything right in the beginning you can get what ever the plant can possibly give you, If you really want me too show you a grow journal i will have to buy myself all my shit again since i moved into a different house, and then you will have to wait the 10 to 13 weeks for me to show you what is trully feasable. Itll be hard for me cuz I cant afford shit right now and im starting completely from the chalk board and the beggining of germination, but ill fuckin try just for you man. And Ill fuckin prove you wrong in every category explained, then ill show you how you can shorten the time in between harvests with multiple grow chambers.... Until further ado i leave you this thread until then. In the end its all going to benefit me.


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## born2killspam (Feb 22, 2009)

I know the tricks of the trade, I know whats possible, and I know the best choices that can be made if you hope to achieve that..
You mentioned 3.5x3.5'.. With 12+sqft lit by a 600W for 50W/sqft,
a very respectable yield, optimized to give the most yield/veg_time (usually a week, but strain dependant) 2lb harvests would be extremely braggable.. That would be more than 75g/sqft, and more than 1.5g/Watt! And to do that, you'd need many smaller plants to keep the bulk of the growth within the lights optimum intensity range.. You can't expect outdoor results on indoor plants.. I wish you could, but you can't..


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## GypsyBush (Feb 22, 2009)

AK47StEvY said:


> Like I said ...


3 plants with 32 tops... in a 3.5' x 3.5' ????

Won't fit dude... you can barely fit one tree in there.. and you are creating a shade farm...

You can most certainly get that kind of weight... but not with 1 600 watt and most deff. not in a 3.5x3.5 space....

Sorry....

Oh.. and there is nothing that I would love more than for you to prove me wrong and teach me how to triple my yields...


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## GypsyBush (Feb 22, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> You can't expect outdoor results on indoor plants.. I wish you could, but you can't..




The jungle that was our 3 VERY BIG girls

​


AK47StEvY said:


> ...Now if you know how to calculate 3 16oz plants you get 3 pounds of cannabis in 80 days in a 6ft tall x 3.5wide x 3.5deep cabinet...


Have you ever seen a big plant?

How can you expect to fit 3 of these in such a small space...???

Won't happen buddy.. unless you squish them in... and then you won't get shit in the shade and mold...

Click on the link above and tell me how you are going to fit them in your cab....  you would be lucky to fit one in there...







​


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## born2killspam (Feb 22, 2009)

I made it up to about 60g/sqft, crowding NL#5's on a drip table and vegging for a bit too long for ~1plant/sqft.. But that stat fell when I started growing good weed I really enjoyed in nice big pots of soil.. Alot of bud that contributed to the 60g/sqft really didn't have alot of bag appeal and was grueling to manicure.. Wasn't garbage, but was pretty damn airy from growing deep in the jungle.. The happy plants may not have yielded as much bulk/area, but each and every bud was a sight to behold..


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## GypsyBush (Feb 22, 2009)

I think that small plants will make better use of artificial lighting...

SOG... with waves of these....1/2 to 3/4 Oz. lollipops.... as many pots as your tray can hold (ebb flow)...





​


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## born2killspam (Feb 22, 2009)

> The jungle that was our 3 VERY BIG girls


How have I not noticed M Blaze before this?? Impressive.. By far the most impressive indoor monster I've seen in a long time.. I misspoke saying you can't do that.. But all other things being equal, the sun would have beaten that yield..


> The tallest was about 7 foot including the pot and they were grown under 4 x 600 watt lights.
> 
> Dry weight was just over 4.5 pound which was exactly as expected so we were happy with the result.
> ...
> It took almost 16 weeks from the time we got the very big clones to the day we harvested.


Not actually the best numbers from a production calculation POV though huh Stevey?? Not bad by a long shot, but only 0.85g/Watt and it took 120days..


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## born2killspam (Feb 22, 2009)

Thats one of the nicest lollipops I've ever seen too..


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## GypsyBush (Feb 22, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> How have I not noticed M Blaze before this??


I don't know... you must have been looking the other way.... was she pretty?



born2killspam said:


> Impressive..


Isn't it.... 



born2killspam said:


> By far the most impressive indoor monster I've seen in a long time..


He does the right... he's like the INDOOR FDD.... hahahaha....



born2killspam said:


> I misspoke saying you can't do that..


Thanks you for being so.... well, you know what I mean.... 



born2killspam said:


> But all other things being equal, the sun would have beaten that yield..


100% agreed... but he did a damn fine job at a tree..inside...



born2killspam said:


> Not actually the best numbers from a production calculation POV though huh Stevey??





born2killspam said:


> Not bad by a long shot, but only 0.85g/Watt and it took 120days..





born2killspam said:


> Thats one of the nicest lollipops I've ever seen too..


That one IS mine... I prefer SOG single colas because of the bud in that picture... or one of it's dozens of sisters...

If you notice, the bud is dense from top to bottom... there is NO fluff... easiest trim job in the world... and they use the same space as the pot.. so you can really cram them in there...

Here are a few lollipops from the last harvest....


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## born2killspam (Feb 22, 2009)

You and M Blaze are like the yin and yang of indoor growing.. I bet your hands hurt less after manicuring a crop though.. When I first opened the link, the picture popped up before I could read anything, and I thought "Wow, I had no idea fdd did that shit indoors.." I honestly thought it was his for sure..

Edit: How densely do you pack those? 4"x4"/lolli??


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## GypsyBush (Feb 22, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> You and M Blaze are like the yin and yang of indoor growing..


I feel honored seeing my name and his in the same sentence... but ...

I am just a newb... and I don't know shit...



born2killspam said:


> I bet your hands hurt less after manicuring a crop though..


I get to manicure a lot.. just not at the same time... works out really well... just about the time I am getting bored... it's over...



born2killspam said:


> When I first opened the link, the picture popped up before I could read anything, and I thought "Wow, I had no idea fdd did that shit indoors.." I honestly thought it was his for sure..


Those guys... they are so awesome...!!!

I can totally see that though... that is deff.. FDD's beach (indoor pool?!) there... hahahaha...


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## born2killspam (Feb 22, 2009)

> I am just a newb... and I don't know shit...


Had me fooled.. Must just be the rep point, but I thought I recognized your name from overgrow.. Funny how the mind manufactures things.. 5-10 years from now I'll probably get confused and remember M Blazes crop as fdd's..


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## GypsyBush (Feb 22, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Had me fooled.. Must just be the rep point, but I thought I recognized your name from overgrow.. Funny how the mind manufactures things.. 5-10 years from now I'll probably get confused and remember M Blazes crop as fdd's..


I am not a kid.. nor is this my first crop or two.. but the whole indoor world is less than a year old to me...

And I TOTALLY hear what you mean...

I was a at bar once and recognized a bunch of people speaking a different language (which I speak).. but it was loud and we were drinking... so I laughed at my buddy and told him how i could hear perfect (...insert secret foreign language here) and in all reality it was english and my mind was just playing tricks on me.. hahahaha.. we had a 1/2 hour long discussion on tricks your mind can play....

but when we go inside ... there is a whole GROUP of foreigners.. speaking their native tongue... my buddy and i just started laughing and I found a way in to their table and talked with them for hours.... drinking and eating ...

Good times...


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## GypsyBush (Feb 22, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Had me fooled.. Must just be the rep point,


I do HATE BULLSHIT.. so that may account for the high rep rating...


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 22, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> 3 plants with 32 tops... in a 3.5' x 3.5' ????
> 
> Won't fit dude... you can barely fit one tree in there.. and you are creating a shade farm...
> 
> ...


Fucking crist sakes. You are all fucking noobs here arent you. No 3 32 cola plants will not fit in a 3.5 x 3.5 i know man. but you can fit three ak47s in this space easily--------> its called sea of green SOG... put a screen in there and you have a scrog set up in which you only need two plants to get three pounds from. Because you are training all the tops to grow above the screen canopy to recieve maximum amount of light energy. Thats another way for you people who dont know shit, to try out.


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## born2killspam (Feb 22, 2009)

I would try it out, but I avoid participating in shenanigans whenever possible..


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## GypsyBush (Feb 22, 2009)

AK47StEvY said:


> Fucking crist sakes. You are all fucking noobs here arent you.


I am.. you are right... I suspect you are right all the time.. so that is nothing new to you...

But I do know that SOG and SCROG are 2 completely different things... so get your facts straight before you come out all agressive and shit...

No need for that at all... but whatever... I'm gonna go smoke a bowl...


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 23, 2009)

AK47StEvY said:


> Fucking crist sakes. You are all fucking noobs here arent you. No 3 32 cola plants will not fit in a 3.5 x 3.5 i know man. but you can fit three ak47s in this space easily--------> its called sea of green SOG... put a screen in there and you have a scrog set up in which you only need two plants to get three pounds from. Because you are training all the tops to grow above the screen canopy to recieve maximum amount of light energy. Thats another way for you people who dont know shit, to try out.


Dude.....







SHUT YOUR MOUTH. You are dead wrong. That room there in my picture is a 3x4 (12 square feet) and that's over 200 colas. 3 plants in a 3.5x3.5 (12.25 square feet, LARGER ROOM) could easily have 30+ colas each, WITHOUT using a Sea of Green or Screen of Green.

You are WRONG. Go back to weed school. Those of us that have done this quite often know better. QUIT SPREADING MISINFORMATION.


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 25, 2009)

Did I not say that it is possible? I did say that you could not fit three plants in a small closet with 32 colas each (That # is supposed to be the maximum # of colas by the way(dont know how you got 200 colas)) out of frustration, but yess I have not managed three plants under a scrog grow like your two plant set up, I have grown two plants under scrog like yours and yess my set up looked almost identicle except I only had 54 colas total, and my 2 ak47s were in a 3.5 x 3.5 x 6 closet with chickenwire screen and i produced 2.75 pounds of bud in 13 weeks. I also had three ak47s in the same closet previously without supercropping and FIMing, but I did prune for yeild and topped them at 6 weeks veg.
I have also had the experience to tell the truth and recognize the "shenanigans" bullshit. I did produce 3 pounds of weed just with the three plants in sea of green but because I pruned it doubled my yeild plus i had(CO2) which increases yeild by 40% in case if you did not know that part. How much bud in dry weight do you grow with that set up, with those two plants? You are not using CO2 are you? CO2 is very important.
Good photo by the way I love your set up. 

If anything im in agreance with you man, maybe you should try to read the rest of the posts before you call me a dumbass you jackass.


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## born2killspam (Feb 25, 2009)

Your numbers are always so exact..


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## GypsyBush (Feb 25, 2009)

AK47StEvY said:


> If anything im in agreance with you man, maybe you should try to read the rest of the posts before you call me a dumbass you jackass.


I think this is a classic case of ... ooops... not fun when someone comes out in a less than cordial way , eh?!?!

But I am the one that should be eating his words...

I said you cannot fit 3 30 top plants in a 3.5' x 3.5' room...

I was the one spreading MISINFORMATION...

But I think a scrog as beautiful as yours is the exception, not the norm... especially amongst newbs...

But I ate my words... no sauce... dry... I WAS WRONG... but I know better now...

Thanks...


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 25, 2009)

If you don't know how I got so many colas, I'll tell ya. 

Scissors. Give each branch a chance to develop 4 or 5 nodes, cut, let those branch out, trim away bad/small, leave larger ones to grow, trim those again after 4 or 5 nodes.

Exponential cola production. Within 4-5 weeks you've got 200+ budsites ready. Mine in the picture actually took longer because I was only using a 400w light.


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## GypsyBush (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks Kali...

I have read about SCROGing and have followed a few SCROG journals...

Yours has to be the best looking I've seen...


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 25, 2009)

KaliKitsune said:


> If you don't know how I got so many colas, I'll tell ya.
> 
> Scissors. Give each branch a chance to develop 4 or 5 nodes, cut, let those branch out, trim away bad/small, leave larger ones to grow, trim those again after 4 or 5 nodes.
> 
> Exponential cola production. Within 4-5 weeks you've got 200+ budsites ready. Mine in the picture actually took longer because I was only using a 400w light.


 Thats sweet to know man thanks for the info. but yeah thanks for showin that pic though its awesome looking with that many bud sites pokin out like that lol.


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 25, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Your numbers are always so exact..


 Because that cabinet grow I had was only three months ago man. I didnt even join this site until the middle of smokin my herb.


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 25, 2009)

Ohh kali how long did the cutting delay your plant growth. How long is it taking you too flower those girls?


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 25, 2009)

AK47StEvY said:


> Ohh kali how long did the cutting delay your plant growth. How long is it taking you too flower those girls?


Cutting delayed growth by a couple days each cutting with about a week or so between each cutting. 

That whole grow, because of the low amount of light, took almost a year to reach that size. 

They took two and a half months for flowering.


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## born2killspam (Feb 25, 2009)

Not all tops are made equal don't forget.. 200 2-4g tops don't take as much area to grow as 90 1/2oz ones like you would need to hit 3lbs..
What do you yield off those crops Kalikitune?? It is pretty beautiful..


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 25, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Not all tops are made equal don't forget.. 200 2-4g tops don't take as much area to grow as 90 1/2oz ones like you would need to hit 3lbs..
> What do you yield off those crops Kalikitune?? It is pretty beautiful..


I got just around 2 & 1/4 pounds from those two plants.

Each cola was around 3.5-5.0 dry.


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## born2killspam (Feb 25, 2009)

Wow, you got that down to a science..


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 25, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Wow, you got that down to a science..


Actually that was like my second hydro grow, I have not much experience, just loads of teaching material I've read up on. Not QUITE down pat, yet. I'm just boozing thru different hydro types.


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## born2killspam (Feb 25, 2009)

I don't think I ever got much more than 60g/sqft.. That was with about 45W/sqft 2:1 HPS/MH, drip hydroton, ~1plant/sqft NL5..


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## valmeida (Feb 26, 2009)

Ok, I have been reading for a few days now and I have a question for all the veterans. which light would be better for a 4x4 grow area with (2) 2X4 trays with 20 plants. My options are (1) 1000 HPS over the middle or (2) 600 watt HPS side by side or (4) 400 watt HPS lights.


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 26, 2009)

valmeida said:


> Ok, I have been reading for a few days now and I have a question for all the veterans. which light would be better for a 4x4 grow area with (2) 2X4 trays with 20 plants. My options are (1) 1000 HPS over the middle or (2) 600 watt HPS side by side or (4) 400 watt HPS lights.


Get 2 600w HPS bulbs and put them side by side, about 4 feet apart from each other. That's your best bet.


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## born2killspam (Feb 26, 2009)

I agree with that, but 600W lights are pretty exclusive to grow stores, whereas 400W systems can often be purchased very cheaply at electrical/lighting outfitters.. (A few years ago I got everything I needed to put 400W systems together for $55).. There are some good deals on the net, but I wouldn't buy a light system from the local hydro stores if my life depended on it..
I would prefer 600W to 400W systems though..


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## GypsyBush (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey Kali, did you just really want to do a SCROG, or do you think there is an efficiency value in it?

I see clearly why someone restricted in number of plants but not in size, would choose this...

But I am just in awe that you had to wait that long... with your lights on...

I get it though... I run a mother & clone space that runs constantly too... though I use Fluoros there...

I am just curious... 

The lollipops are working great for me so far...

Oh... another thing... do you think there is any drawback of having such massive plants with so little room for root mass?

The container I saw looked tiny compared to the amount of plant material above...

I have heard that Cannabis will not get root bound, is this the proof?

Cheers... and I got another 3 or 4 +rep coming your way as soon as they let me... lol...

That picture is awesome!!!!


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 26, 2009)

KaliKitsune said:


> I got just around 2 & 1/4 pounds from those two plants.
> 
> Each cola was around 3.5-5.0 dry.


The reason you got that yeild is because of how many buds there are if you had half the amount of colas that you do I think you can get another 3/4 pound out of it, because the colas would grow much larger. A whole year though huh. crazy yeah the 400watt is only like 30,000 lumens+. I do believe I read in the Cannabis grow bible that for each watt ther should be 50 lumens, and it told me that 45,000 lumens + is the average amount of light that a cannabis plant requires inwhich you would get that many lumens with a 600 watt light system, I dont remember exactly but yeah... I read that 1000watts is efficient for a 4dx4wx6h area space for sure though. I would have liked to have seen your plant grown with a 1000 watts if you could keep it below 85F or 80F temperatures.


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## born2killspam (Feb 26, 2009)

STOP.. Just go get another username and we can be done with it..


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 26, 2009)

Im just saying though but yeah i know i dont need to say anymore, but i do like to admire the vigilance.


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## fishenfool06 (Feb 26, 2009)

has any body ever herd if adding a uv lamp 2 weeks before harvist ? the first time i herd it it came from a profeser at oaksterdam . anybody else herd if this?


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 27, 2009)

Only if you dont burn your plant, i would just stay with any High Pressure Sodium Bulb rather than some crazy inefficient uv lamp.


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## born2killspam (Feb 27, 2009)

Its a suppliment, not a replacement.. There is a thread on it in the advanced forum.. Ppl seem to like the results, but its pretty anecdotal as of yet.. I'd jump on the band wagon since I'm a fan of flowering with HPS&MH together as far as bud quality goes..


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 27, 2009)

fishenfool06 said:


> has any body ever herd if adding a uv lamp 2 weeks before harvist ? the first time i herd it it came from a profeser at oaksterdam . anybody else herd if this?


You want UV at the beginning of trichome production. Use it only as a supplement throughout the majority of flowering.


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## mistermark21 (Feb 27, 2009)

This is the best post ive ever seen, all i need to know in one post. Hats off to you sire


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 27, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Its a suppliment, not a replacement.. There is a thread on it in the advanced forum.. Ppl seem to like the results, but its pretty anecdotal as of yet.. I'd jump on the band wagon since I'm a fan of flowering with HPS&MH together as far as bud quality goes..


HPS/MH does give out a fair amount of UVB, mostly the HPS and if you've gotten a horticultural bulb it won't likely have the required UV filters.

For any fluorescent grower UV supplements will be a must.

There are a couple of particular studies that prove UVB radiation is a major factor in THC production. One I remember from the '80s and then another I've linked below.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=UEaTaDYGl2UC&oi=fnd&pg=PA21&dq=Cannabis+sativa+Canabinoid+alkaloids+++Lydon+et+al.+1987&ots=Svml77CR0F&sig=g3XnFqd3UTz15ryFKVIDRLkypW4#PPA28,M1

You might find that some interesting reading.


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## born2killspam (Feb 27, 2009)

Where did you read that about lack of UVB in HID?


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 27, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Where did you read that about lack of UVB in HID?


When Mercury Vapor lights first came out, they were used as primary lighting in warehouses. People kept getting sunburned from the lamps so eventually they were required to have UV filter glass for the surrounding glass to shield people from the UV emitted from the fused quartz gas bulb in the center. 

That may not hold totally true today with cheaply manufactured overseas stuff, but any bulb made in the USA you don't touch for two reasons - oils screw with the glass, and the oils cause solarization of the glass which makes it lose even more UV output over time over what the filter already eliminates, diminshing light quality overall.

I think the UV requirement is only for HID used in a non-horticultural work environment.


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## DookeyNugs408 (Feb 27, 2009)

those lights r for growing leafs and getting ur plant to the size u want it but we dont get stoned off the leafs and stems..add a uvb bulb or 2, it will produce more resin glands which is the only part off the plant containing thc...watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcpt3Be28o "THC, UVB and ME"on YOUTUBE


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 27, 2009)

You can try out the new LED set ups, they are supposed to be 3 times more powerful now... i dunno i just thought of it just now.


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## born2killspam (Feb 27, 2009)

Yea most ppl don't have good luck with those at all come flowering, but I bet you could pull 5lb with one yourself..


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 27, 2009)

Na that would be impossible to do thank you very much; but in the future LEDs will be the way to go i believe, like 5 years from now but i dont care about talkin bout that right now.


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## KaliKitsune (Feb 27, 2009)

AK47StEvY said:


> Na that would be impossible to do thank you very much; but in the future LEDs will be the way to go i believe, like 5 years from now but i dont care about talkin bout that right now.


Except the claim that a given technology "Will be here in 5-10 years" is made every 5-10 years and almost never happens.

Problem is LEDs, just like incandescents, are basically a wire of a material that gives off light when heated by electrical current. That's it. Same tech, tinier package. There's only so far you can go with a metal wire.

Now if they were to figure out a way to make a super-micro HID light, that would be awesome. If they could just make HID more efficient at lower wattages, LEDs wouldn't even be thought about.


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## AK47StEvY (Feb 28, 2009)

So true my man of the hour. The technological advancement of today we could very well see something that will be much better, im not gonna say that we will see anything; im just day dreamin. I dont want to pay an extra 60-100bucks a month because of my lights. I would never use LEDs until I knew that they were almost as good as a 400watt hps bulb, but likely to never happen.


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## born2killspam (Feb 28, 2009)

> Problem is LEDs, just like incandescents, are basically a wire of a material that gives off light when heated by electrical current. That's it. Same tech, tinier package. There's only so far you can go with a metal wire


You apparently know alot more about growing than you do about semiconductors..
LED's will definately improve/cheapen to the point of feasibility by todays standards, over the next few years.. The only question, is will something come around between now and then that totally steals the show.. 
The computer industry is filled with that.. I remember a class trip to 3M where they showed us 16MB floppy disks in the late 80's (btw, at the time my hdd was only 30MB) , but said they would never see market because of current stock surpluses, and more current technology that surpassed it.. Maybe someday something along these lines will end up in grow rooms.. http://members.misty.com/don/sulfbulb.html


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## jgreenbeast (Mar 1, 2009)

nice info on lighting.


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## NYC Diesel (Mar 1, 2009)

the sun gives varying light spectrums throughout the day, correct?


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## born2killspam (Mar 1, 2009)

Yea, and plants are tuned into that via phytochrome..


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## KaliKitsune (Mar 3, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> You apparently know alot more about growing than you do about semiconductors..
> LED's will definately improve/cheapen to the point of feasibility by todays standards, over the next few years.. The only question, is will something come around between now and then that totally steals the show..
> The computer industry is filled with that.. I remember a class trip to 3M where they showed us 16MB floppy disks in the late 80's (btw, at the time my hdd was only 30MB) , but said they would never see market because of current stock surpluses, and more current technology that surpassed it.. Maybe someday something along these lines will end up in grow rooms.. http://members.misty.com/don/sulfbulb.html


The basic form of an LED is a doped silicon carbide semiconductor wire. When electricity is introduced, electrons travelling 'fall' into electron 'holes' and give off energy as they fill in the gap.

The basic light bulb is a doped tungsten carbide semiconductor wire.

I made one of these for middle school science fair.


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## born2killspam (Mar 3, 2009)

Blue LEDs are usually silicon carbide, it has band-gaps that corresponds to blue photons.. When electrons jump the band gap by falling into a hole created by the dopant, they release exactly the amount of energy as the band-gap spans as a photon with wavelength = h/E.. Thats a major difference.. LEDs are monochromatic.. They have no spectrum, they only emit photons at the wavelength that corresponds to their band-gap energy.. Doping in semiconductors is about altering the conductive properties of an intrinsic semiconductor to facilitate these transitions..
A light-bulb works on a black-body principle.. A filament is heated and random interactions cause it to radiate photons across the spectrum (even infintely out of the visible range, thus the low efficiency).. Even though the actual transitions are random, they average out to a predictable peak energy for a given temperature..
Tungsten is some tough ass shit.. Not many other metal strands can handle that kind power dissipation in imperfectly inert atmosphere.. The purpose of doping it in filaments has nothing to do with electrical characteristics, they need to dope it in order to weaken it and make it more ductile so they can manufacture filaments..


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## GrowGreenGreen (Mar 4, 2009)

KaliKitsune said:


> Except the claim that a given technology "Will be here in 5-10 years" is made every 5-10 years and almost never happens.
> 
> Problem is LEDs, just like incandescents, are basically a wire of a material that gives off light when heated by electrical current. That's it. Same tech, tinier package. There's only so far you can go with a metal wire.
> 
> Now if they were to figure out a way to make a super-micro HID light, that would be awesome. If they could just make HID more efficient at lower wattages, LEDs wouldn't even be thought about.


As to your first point, I noticed you undermine your apparent position on the subject by your use of the word "almost." Very sneaky. I can't call you absolutely wrong, now.

Second point, about wires and their limits:
Ice cream has no bones. LED has no wires.

LED technology primer: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led3.htm

Notice there are no wires, in other words, no "filament." It doesn't so much "glow" as it "spits photons" out of a magical gap when a current passes across the gap. In other words: different, tiny tech. HID is the tech that's limited. It still needs a gas to be superheated to the point it wants to burn, but can't, so it just gets hot and glows, and 10 percent of the electricity used to run this reaction, as a side effect, is given as PAR. Ninety percent of what you put into an HID light comes out as non-Photosynthetically Active Radiation, mostly resistive heat, hence all those fans.

Please, check my profile and albums for photos.

LED works better than HID, it's just more expensive. Not a reason to hate it. While it costs to buy, it saves in electrical usage and in maintenance costs.

GrowGreenGreen.

Figure below is a fine example of the resin production I get from CFLs and LED in my Organic Soil grow.


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## born2killspam (Mar 4, 2009)

> Except the claim that a given technology "Will be here in 5-10 years" is made every 5-10 years and almost never happens.


I honestly have to agree with this.. My favorite example is video-phones, but hover-cars are definately up there.. 
It boils down to economic feasibility, the physics/engineering is out there for the application of alot of things, but cost/demand don't correlate to bring them..
HID is kind of a cross between incandescent and LED.. It does have bandgap spikes at specific wavelengths corresponding to electron transitions through the gas mixture, but the existence of the gas itself allows alot of heat to be created via molecular motion, where as an LED doesn't allow nearly as much heat production via motional interactions..


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## GanjaToad (Mar 5, 2009)

Ok, I heard this would be the best place for most my questions. I bought a sodium light today. The really big kind, 250 watt. Took it home and took it out of the box and theirs no way that was ganna fit into a my light socket. I talk to someone, about it and they said i needed a HPS ballast. I looked it up on the internet and their about $100. Any idea one wat to do from here? The plants im growing just finished germinating. Any help is appreciated.


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## AK47StEvY (Mar 5, 2009)

Dood, just go onto to amazon or something and look up a 250 watt hps light fixture and you should be able to find some pretty cheap stuff.


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## supradrifter (Mar 6, 2009)

Hi, just wanted to know what peoples experience was with useing the HPS and the fluorescent lights together? Like the HPS hanging up top and the t5 (t5 or t12, whats the best?) on the side of the walls so the center and side of the plants get more light?


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## GypsyBush (Mar 6, 2009)

OK I got a question...

Galaxy Digital HPS/MH 600 watts...

It will fire the MH just fine, but refuses to fire brand new HPS bulbs...

Any thoughts....?


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## born2killspam (Mar 6, 2009)

Ignitor is the first, and most likely thing that comes to mind.. You mean it won't fire any hps bulbs correct? 
Did it continually try to restrike a dead hps bulb for a long time before??


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## GypsyBush (Mar 6, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Ignitor is the first, and most likely thing that comes to mind.. You mean it won't fire any hps bulbs correct?
> Did it continually try to restrike a dead hps bulb for a long time before??


it was just fine at first...
then I tried to fire a few times... and fired... then not...
now it is just dead with an HPS...
Just fine with the MH...

Ignitor.... Hummm...

Are digital ballasts different?

regardless, I gotta turn it in to the shop anyways...


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## born2killspam (Mar 7, 2009)

Digital ballasts have some nuance differences, but they still require an ignitor to get an HPS arc struck.. Definately sounds like the ignitor, you could replace it yourself for about $20..


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## GypsyBush (Mar 7, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Digital ballasts have some nuance differences, but they still require an ignitor to get an HPS arc struck.. Definately sounds like the ignitor, you could replace it yourself for about $20..


It is a Galaxy commercial greenhouse unit, sealed in epoxy and still under warranty...

I'll take it back...

But thanks for the advice ...


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## skeet66 (Mar 7, 2009)

nice looking plants cant get mine to be chunky bud like that


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## BeatenByTheWorld (Mar 7, 2009)

I hope somebody can answer these questions for me because im lost and nobody thats trying to sell me something is giving me good information. I am looking at a few different lights. All 400w. One is HPS, one is MH, and one is a dual ballast with a switch. Common sense tells me to get the dual ballast, but on the back of the ballast is still says HPS on the manufacture tag. He told me the only way a MH bulb will run in a HPS fixture is with a conversion bulb which from what i hear are significantly dimmer than standard bulbs. I asked an electrician and he said you can run either bulb in any HPS ballast, and the only adverse effect this may have is a slightly shorter ballast life.

Can I save the 50$ and just buy the HPS and put and equal watt standard MH bulb in it anyways?
Does this increase the fire risk? Id rather pay 50$ than burn to death.
What is the switch on the dual ballast actually do when you move it from HPS to MH?

PLEASE help me lol Im a man who admits when hes beat... and these salesmen got me beat.


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## GypsyBush (Mar 7, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Digital ballasts have some nuance differences, but they still require an ignitor to get an HPS arc struck.. Definately sounds like the ignitor, you could replace it yourself for about $20..


Take a peek at this... I found it "enlightening"...

http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/static/articles/0506_digiballasts.asp


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## born2killspam (Mar 7, 2009)

BeatenByTheWorld said:


> I hope somebody can answer these questions for me because im lost and nobody thats trying to sell me something is giving me good information. I am looking at a few different lights. All 400w. One is HPS, one is MH, and one is a dual ballast with a switch. Common sense tells me to get the dual ballast, but on the back of the ballast is still says HPS on the manufacture tag. He told me the only way a MH bulb will run in a HPS fixture is with a conversion bulb which from what i hear are significantly dimmer than standard bulbs. I asked an electrician and he said you can run either bulb in any HPS ballast, and the only adverse effect this may have is a slightly shorter ballast life.
> 
> Can I save the 50$ and just buy the HPS and put and equal watt standard MH bulb in it anyways?
> Does this increase the fire risk? Id rather pay 50$ than burn to death.
> ...


Aside from the need for an ignitor with hps, they require more current at a lower voltage during operation.. You may get a MH to light on a magnetic HPS ballast without ignitor, but it won't be running anywhere near rated specs, is dangerous, and will kill bulbs early.. If thats what he has then yea, all thats good for is MH conversion bulbs, but the ones I've seen are meant to run with the ignitor intact..
Electronic ballasts are different, flipping a switch can properly accomodate either bulb type since the lamp current is controlled electronically, and not with physical coils meant for a single task..
Conversion bulbs though are made for ppl with non-switchable ballasts.. (And yes they do have draw-backs).. Having a switchable ballast should mean there is no need for compensation bulbs.. I don't think that is a switchable ballast, just an S51 magnetic HPS ballast with a switch tied to the ignitor.. It probably has the S51 ANSI code printed on it somewhere.. Regardless, if its big and heavy due to a bigass transformer then it is not actually a switchable ballast.. Ironically though, your seller friend is wiser than your electrician friend since he isn't running bulbs meant for M59 ballasts..


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## born2killspam (Mar 7, 2009)

The ignitor (bad term I guess for an electronic ballast), will be in the form of a voltage multiplier.. Its an array of small HV capacitors that probably looks like a string of triangles.. Definately the most uncluttered easy to work area inside there if it isn't mounted on its own board even..


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## ink slingin' in the 805 (Mar 17, 2009)

ok i think iv'e got the lighting down...... hehe, actually, iv'e had it down years ago. i am here looking for an anwser to a question and i cannot find it. i need the pro's to step up to the plate for me on this one... ok, so the amount of dark period given contributes to the introduction of the plant to flowering. now i know that happens by the dark period inflicting the plant to produce a cretian chemical that induces flowering. my question is, what exactly defines "dark period".. are we talking PITCH BLACK or just not in DIRECT light. example, if they are getting a little light from maby my kitchen light being on and lighting up my livingroom a tiny bit. i have 1 10x10 blackened flowering tent but im out of room and i need to put 5 more of my girls into flowering this week. thank you


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## tusseltussel (Mar 17, 2009)

ink slingin' in the 805 said:


> ok i think iv'e got the lighting down...... hehe, actually, iv'e had it down years ago. i am here looking for an anwser to a question and i cannot find it. i need the pro's to step up to the plate for me on this one... ok, so the amount of dark period given contributes to the introduction of the plant to flowering. now i know that happens by the dark period inflicting the plant to produce a cretian chemical that induces flowering. my question is, what exactly defines "dark period".. are we talking PITCH BLACK or just not in DIRECT light. example, if they are getting a little light from maby my kitchen light being on and lighting up my livingroom a tiny bit. i have 1 10x10 blackened flowering tent but im out of room and i need to put 5 more of my girls into flowering this week. thank you


 best to have it as dark as possible in nature they do get some moon light so most say no brighter than that but your best off goin totally dark plants outdoors are more adapted to their environment and indoors they are used to a perfect environment.


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## born2killspam (Mar 17, 2009)

Dark period seen by phytochrome would technically be when the number of incident at 730nm exceeds the number of photons at 670nm.. These are the absorbtion peaks of red phytochrome and far-red pytochrome which transition to the alternate form when a proper photon is absorbed.. 
The sun's peak is WELL below 730nm, so whenever its visible the plant will see day-time.. More far-red light could theoretically reduce darkness requirements, but thats easier said than done..


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## shaps (Mar 18, 2009)

Thats some long but very interesting reading


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## ink slingin' in the 805 (Mar 18, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Dark period seen by phytochrome would technically be when the number of incident at 730nm exceeds the number of photons at 670nm.. These are the absorbtion peaks of red phytochrome and far-red pytochrome which transition to the alternate form when a proper photon is absorbed..
> The sun's peak is WELL below 730nm, so whenever its visible the plant will see day-time.. More far-red light could theoretically reduce darkness requirements, but thats easier said than done..


WOW!!!! i really appreciate the help but DAMN!! dude did you go to weed college or are you the CEO of general electric? much respect to the one who knows his stuff, and that you do, but... that just made my head scramble into a bunch of red lights and numbers and nuggies! woah, them frozen tricromes are something else, hehe. anyways, can you break that down a little for me in layman, err, uhh, STONEDmans terms?? thanks again everyone


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## born2killspam (Mar 18, 2009)

Physics degree gives me the background I need to cover alot of internet research with a decent level of understanding.. 
What really bums me out is knowing 'what' could be done to possibly improve performance, but not knowing how to implement it.. 
Engineers may be the Oompa Loompas of science, but they do bring application to life..


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## tusseltussel (Mar 18, 2009)

ink slingin' in the 805 said:


> WOW!!!! i really appreciate the help but DAMN!! dude did you go to weed college or are you the CEO of general electric? much respect to the one who knows his stuff, and that you do, but... that just made my head scramble into a bunch of red lights and numbers and nuggies! woah, them frozen tricromes are something else, hehe. anyways, can you break that down a little for me in layman, err, uhh, STONEDmans terms?? thanks again everyone


i think what he was trying to say is that certain color light won't be ablee to be picked up be the plants i would assume thats the same spectrum as moonlight so basically as dark as possible. 

born2killspam knows his shit but i often see where its said in a way only the above avrg mind can comprehend, and a lot of us are just stoners and dnt have a clue. maybe if it was followed by a simpler explination like maybe plants only see certain spectrums of light or sumthin i don't know ive seen em post that intelligent stuff b4 and never dumb it down for ppl like me and you. it can be frustrating some ppl will come out and tell you your wrong and go off on sum silly shit and never give you the answer, 
its like a jungle sumtimes it makes me wunder how i keep from goin under


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## born2killspam (Mar 18, 2009)

I have no way of knowing what ppl's backgrounds are.. Any senior HS physics would probably mention black-body curves, and given the nature of this activity, alot of ppl have read about and blackbodies and Kelvin ratings.. These are public threads anyways, and there is this new thing called the internet that allows you to look up whatever you care to understand more about.. 
Its really hard to simplify some things without making it blatantly incorrect, and why should I spend time repeating whats all over the net with diagrams/animations.. 
Phytochrome does absorb light, but its not part of photosynthesis, its a triggering mechanism.. It has 2 basic forms.. One likes to absorb 'red' photons, usually labelled Pr, and one that likes to absorb 'far-red' photons, labelled Pfr..
Daytime has more red photons (670nm) than far-red (730nm), night-time the opposite (and obviously the general intensity is ALOT lower)..
When Pr recieves a red photon it converts to Pfr and waits for a far red photon which will convert it back to Pr..
So during the daytime, almost all phytochrome is in the Pfr form.. The active form that tells a plant to flower though is Pr, which can't really exist in daylight, or any suitable grow-light, so it needs enough dark time to shift the equilibrium of those to trigger..
Now thats a general unproofed rundown that contains alot of relevant terms that could be entered into google for concise results.. No spoonfeeding necessary..


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## Kage (Mar 19, 2009)

just got out of jail.......... i have fines, it's all bullshit... i'll post the story when i find out how, i'm kinda a noob, but... i'm going to go back if i can't pay my fines.. i didn't know where else to turn.... i have paperwork


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## EXOBANTON (Mar 21, 2009)

SASSROCK

[LEMON][MuscleIceGEL][LIME].//.[ALUMINUMFOIL]<<<DRY IN OVEN.

SMOKE OUT. 


EXTASY

...19[HOLY].19-2B


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## southern homegrower (Mar 23, 2009)

i have a 1000 watt hps with lumatek ballest. i have a air cooled great white hood if i cool it whith 66 to 70 degree air will i need a light defuser? i have asked this ? on other threads know one can give me a answer.


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## KaliKitsune (Mar 23, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> i have a 1000 watt hps with lumatek ballest. i have a air cooled great white hood if i cool it whith 66 to 70 degree air will i need a light defuser? i have asked this ? on other threads know one can give me a answer.


Well, your question doesn't make sense. What does temp of the bulb have to do with diffusing a beam of light?


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## southern homegrower (Mar 23, 2009)

well i am new to growing inside so i thought light temp was why i needed a defuser


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## born2killspam (Mar 23, 2009)

No diffusers are for spectrum mixing, and general general light spreading (diffusion).. Any barrier will 'help' keep heat away from the tops, but only with ventillation in the long run, and will also eat light.. Cool-tubes are about as effective as you get..


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## southern homegrower (Mar 23, 2009)

what do u mean when u say eat light.


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## southern homegrower (Mar 23, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> No diffusers are for spectrum mixing, and general general light spreading (diffusion).. Any barrier will 'help' keep heat away from the tops, but only with ventillation in the long run, and will also eat light.. Cool-tubes are about as effective as you get..


thanks ben asking that? for over a week


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## KaliKitsune (Mar 23, 2009)

I would like to see a cool tube made with ultra-thin materials to minimize the loss of light. Carbon assembly and super-thin lexan sheet?


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## st45h (Mar 24, 2009)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


 thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## born2killspam (Mar 24, 2009)

Theft of anything in conjunction with growing marijuana can change legal issues DRASTICALLY..


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## craigx (Mar 24, 2009)

Great posts, this is really going to help me with my grow, thanks alot to everyone who posted useful information.


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## beastinit702 (Mar 25, 2009)

thank you.


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## MeenGreen (Mar 25, 2009)

Hey guys great place here..... 

So I have 1 shop light with 2 cfl t5 cool white bulbs 28wt that are 4ft.

I also have 2 shop lights with 2 reg flourescent t12s 40 wt each.

What would work best for me?I just got done with germination and put my seeds in soil. 

Dont really have much else to work with at the time?Will one of these work?If not what is a cheap cfl to start the growing process?

Thanks to all


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## born2killspam (Mar 25, 2009)

Yea, start with both of those, then get a few bigger cfl's too.. 42W ones were $11 each last time I saw them.. Or go to a lighting/electrical place and get an hps setup for $50-100..


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## born2killspam (Mar 28, 2009)

NO!!!!! Only HPS, MH or flourescents are acceptable.. PERIOD..


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## born2killspam (Mar 28, 2009)

More watts always better.. But I'd HIGHLY advise you to look into HID.. Its actually far cheaper in the long run.. Go to electrical/lighting outfitters in the industrial area of your town, and you can get a sweet light for less than $50.. Adequate fluoros will actually cost more if you really wanna grow some dope..


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## purpdaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Lumens Per Square Foot
To determine how many lumens per square foot you have, find out the square footage of your space by multiplying the width and depth. Divide the lumens available by your square footage. This will give you lumens per square foot. For example, say your space is 3 feet deep by 4 feet wide, for a total of 12 square feet. The total lumens available from your light(s) is 45,000 lumens, which means you have 3,750 lumens per square foot.
Light Do I Need? 
Technology has advanced so much in the last 15 years that we are constantly refining the process and updating what we know works best for growing. Current theory holds that the minimum amount of lighting needed to sustain growth is around 2,000 lumens per square foot. Mid range is around 5,000 lumens per square foot. Optimal is 7,000 to 7,500 or higher lumens per square foot.
*&#12288;*
*How much light is needed for growing?*
The answer depends on if you are growing small plants, in a small space, or large plants, and have a larger space to grow in. I'll try to answer this "in general" instead of being specific to one size plant. 
Light seen and perceived with the human eye is measured in Lumens. There is an ideal amount of lumens for growing and a minimum amount of lumens. The very minimum amount of light required for smaller sized plants grown in the SH System is around 3000 lumens per square foot. Let me put emphasis on *"minimum amount"* of light. However, that's not 100% exactly accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and the reflectivity of the grow area. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens per square foot for average sized plants. As long as the plants do not show burn, as much light can be used as you want to use. (Note, the sun produces about 10,000 lumens per square foot, on a sunny mid summer day). 

*Determining lumens for your grow area:*
First determine the square footage of your area (example in a 4 foot by 4 foot area, there is 16 square feet) If you have a 1000 Watt High Pressure Sodium Light Bulb, that produces approximately 107,000 lumens. Divide this by 16 (your square footage) 107,000 divided by 16 = 6687 lumens per square foot. So just divide the total amount of Lumens, by the total amount of square feet, and that's your lumens per square foot. 

*How far away from my plants do the lights go?*
The lights in your grow room should be as close as possible to the plants without burning them. There is no such thing as too much light, unless there is overly sufficient heat to dry out and burn the leaves. A good rule is to put your hand under the light, if its too hot for your hand, chances are that the plants will be too hot too, so move the light up until your hand feels more comfortable. For seedlings or sprouts, I keep them a little further away from the light, because they are very susceptible to burning and drying out, at these young stages. 

*How do I decide which lights to use?*
Efficiency is very important when choosing a type of light. The wattage is not the most important thing, different types of light produce different amounts of lumens per watt. For example, a 300 watt incandescent will produce about 5100 lumens. (not that you can grow with incandescent bulbs) While a 300 watt Metal Halide (just an example, they do not come in 300 watts), will produce 27,000 lumens. Obviously far more efficient for growing, while still using the same amount of electricity. 

*Approximate light production:*
Incandescents: 17 lumens/watt
Mercury vapor: 45-50 lumens/watt
Fluorescents: 60-70 lumens/watt
Metal halide: 90 lumens/watt
High pressure sodium: 107 lumens/watt


*Incandescent lights: *Incandescent bulbs are the most popular type of lights in the world. They may come advertised as incandescent, tungsten, quartz, halogen, or simply standard. The important thing about incandescent bulbs when it come to growing is simply this: they suck. Using incandescent bulbs to grow plants is like trying to flag down the Space Challenger with a burnt out match! You can do it, but it won't work. There are some incandescents which are sold as "grow lights." They usually have a blue coating and usually come in 60W and 120W sizes. While they may seem like a good choice to new growers, they are next to useless; they produce some light at a usable spectrum, but only have about a 5% efficiency and generate more heat than usable light. Most of us have these in our homes right now. Don't use them for growing, instead opt for a Compact Fluorescent as a cheaper but more efficient alternative. 

*Fluorescent lights:* Fluorescents are far more useful than incandescents. They are efficient enough, and much less expensive than HID (High Intensity Discharge) lights. Compact fluorescent tubes, (commonly called CFLs) are popular with growers because of their good output to size ratio. Compared to standard 4 foot tubes, CFLs are smaller, more easily moved, and more can fit into a smaller given area. CFLs are good for small grows on a tight budget, and for novice growers, since they do not require any special sort of wiring or understanding of the necessary bulbs for a given fixture, and the small wattage ones (23, 42 and 65) are very widely available. Fluorescent lights come in many different Kelvin (spectrum or color) ratings; often the spectrums are labeled on packaging as being 'cool white' or 'warm white.' Cool white is more blue, and is good for the vegetative stages of growth. The bulbs are ultra white. Warm white light is more reddish in spectrum, and is best for the flowering stage. The bulbs are almost cream colored. 

*Color rating *- Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum for Vegging or GROWING, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum and is best for BLOOMING or FLOWERING. 


*High Intensity Discharge (HID) Lighting Systems: *

*Mercury Vapor (MV)*
Mercury vapor lights are not the most efficient light for growing. They are very bright, and relatively cheap. They do emit light at the wavelengths necessary to support your plants growth, but not nearly as good as a MH or HPS light. Much of the light emitted by MV lights is bluish-white. Street lighting is what most MV lighting is used for. 

*Metal Halide (MH)*
Metal halide lighting systems are optimal for use in the vegetative phase of growing. They emit mostly blue light, which encourages vigorous growth of foliage. They are very efficient, but can get rather expensive to start with; fluorescents may seem more appealing because of their lower price, and they are not much different when compared on a lumen-to-lumen cost level. These lights can be used through-out the grow, but leave a lot to be desired in the BLOOM stage. 

*High Pressure Sodium (HPS)*
High pressure sodium lights emit mostly orange, yellow, and red spectrum light, which is perfect for the flowering stage of the plants growth. They are (in my opinion) the most efficient type of light available for any application if you are not on a budget and can vent the grow area for heat. HPS lights can be used through-out the entire grow. They produce more dense and usually larger flowers or fruit than any other light. HPS lights are generally a little more expensive than MH systems of similar wattage. They are more commonly used by experienced commercial growers because of their ability to produce tighter denser flowers, higher lumen-output-per-watt, and will produce from start to finish. 

Just like everything else, available grow lights are evolving. Remember how the sun produces 10,000 lumens per square foot in the mid-summer. Well, today 3 105 watt CFLs in a good reflector can actually duplicate those lumens with CFLs. If you can not grow under the sun, then bring the sun inside. Yes, you can have 20,000 lumens covering the entire grow space of one of the SH systems now with their new 105 watt per bulb CFLs. Three of these bulbs in the proper reflector actually yields 20,000 lumens. 
Comparing prices to lumens, and sticking to CFLS, you can not do any better.
I always want to repeat that HID lights are much much better for growing, but they cost more and produce much more heat. CFLs are good for *small grows* on a tight budget, and for novice growers, since they do not require any special sort of wiring or understanding of the necessary bulbs for a given fixture, and the small wattage ones (23, 42 and 65) are very widely available, even at Walley World, Lows and Home Depot.
*You can run* 
hps light through both stages of growth (ok). 
mh light through both stages of growth (ok). 
run a mh light through the veg phase of growth followed by hps light through flowering (very good). 
run both mh and hps light through both stages of growth (best).
When given the choice of only one light, most marijuana growers will choose an hps grow light over mh, because hps lights are more efficient (larger harvest). 
You can't use a standard high pressure sodium bulb in a metal halide fixture, but you can use a metal halide bulb in a high pressure sodium fixture of the same wattage. 
*There are special* hps bulbs that can be used in a mh fixture and vice-versa. But these conversion bulbs cost about double the price of a standard bulb. 
*A 250 watt* fixture will supply enough light to cover a 2.5 foot by 2.5 foot grow area. (6 plants or less) 
*A 400 watt* fixture will supply enough light to cover a 4 foot by 4 foot grow area. (12 plants or less) 
*A 600 watt* fixture will supply enough light to cover a 5 foot by 5 foot grow area. (18 plants or less) 
*A 1000 watt* fixture will supply enough light to cover a 6.5 foot by 6.5 foot grow area. (30 plants or less)
In order for the heat produced by a light system not to harm the plant, a 250 watt light system should be started 18 to 30 inches above the tops of the plants, a 400 watt light system should be started 3 to 4 feet above the tops of the plants
Whatever your light source, replace bulbs after 6 to 12 months of use. If the light is on 24 hours a day replace it after 6 months. If the light is on 18 hours a day replace it after 9 months. If the light is on 12 hours a day replace it after 12 months.
Hopefully this answeres alot of you guys questions!


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## born2killspam (Mar 28, 2009)

Ideally HPS.. You want something with 3000 or so Kelvin color index ideally.. HPS are cheap if you buy them right.. Just go to a lighting place and tell them you want an HPS for your garage.. They won't ask questions... They know the game.. 
And if they do ask questions just say you want it because its the most power efficient light going..


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## born2killspam (Mar 28, 2009)

And then there is that lumens bullshit that have FUCK ALL to do with plants.. God Damn lumen talk pisses me off on pot growing forums..


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## purpdaddy (Mar 29, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> And then there is that lumens bullshit that have FUCK ALL to do with plants.. God Damn lumen talk pisses me off on pot growing forums..


 please tell me that ur high and not serious!Better pissed off than pissed on.The proper lumen/LUX output is very necissary for an optimal grow. unless you like thin spindly buds,or you have to use more bulbs.GO HID with the correct lumen output and SEE the difference.Theres so many unanswered questions here.


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## purpdaddy (Mar 29, 2009)

Halides and High Pressure Sodium lights suck down many watts but they put out a lot of &#8220;lumens,&#8221; which are the units of measurement used to describe light intensity. These lights are used in grow rooms, but also are used to illuminate warehouses, baseball diamonds, football fields, roads, parking lots and many other places where huge amounts of light are needed. 
Metal Halide (MH) light produces an intense light of a blue-white spectrum excellent for vegetative growth. High-Pressure Sodium (HPS) is an orange-tinted light that simulates the red hue of autumn and is often used as the only light source during flowering phase. The most successful growers use a combination of MH and HPS in a ratio of three HPS to every one MH bulb. This is because MH alone often results in too much stem and leaf growth, with long internodes and delayed flowering and less flowering sites. With HPS augmentation, plants are shorter with more budding sites, and tighter, thicker buds with higher yields.


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## born2killspam (Mar 29, 2009)

Why not read the thread.. Its been explained.. Lumens are for humans.. In regards to photosynthesis, lumens are a useless measure unless you're just using them as a scaling factor for 2 lights with matching spectrums..


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## purpdaddy (Mar 29, 2009)

i have read this thread many times!it has been explained again because people still askin questions that dont know. Lumens a useless measure?LMFAO!


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## born2killspam (Mar 29, 2009)

This dumbs it down pretty well.. http://www.sankey.ws/plantlumen.html


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## SunKissedBuds (Mar 30, 2009)

So ur telling me i can flower with flourescent bulbs? Wont that result in a weak harvest? Stringy like buds? Someone tell me something good! I'd rather stick with HPS for flowering although i'm having trouble finding a fixture at a local hardware store...


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## southern homegrower (Mar 30, 2009)

can any one tell me where to get something to stop my bulbs from hot starts. and what it is called?


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## purpdaddy (Mar 30, 2009)

SunKissedBuds said:


> So ur telling me i can flower with flourescent bulbs? Wont that result in a weak harvest? Stringy like buds? Someone tell me something good! I'd rather stick with HPS for flowering although i'm having trouble finding a fixture at a local hardware store...


 yes you can but i wouldnt recommend it.yes thin spindly buds!The HPS lamp is ideal for flowering.i will use nothing else.


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## southern homegrower (Mar 30, 2009)

the guy at hydro store said the bulbs will not start if they are hot. but i here different here on rollitup.


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## born2killspam (Mar 30, 2009)

If you could get enough fluoro light on them without heat problems, which is pretty much impossible unless you spend ALOT of money very stupidly, then you could grow as well as with HID.. Since that isn't going to happen yea, using fluoros will leave your plants wanting more light during flowering.. 
Point being, fluorescent spectrum isn't useless/poison light to them, the means of output is just weak..


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## purpdaddy (Mar 30, 2009)

yea youll need a fuckload of em..especially during flower.You will come out better just getting an HID setup rather then trying to accumulate enough flouros to be equivalent to the HID.Then youll for sure see a difference on the light bill!


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## born2killspam (Mar 30, 2009)

That I agree with totally.. Its ironic how much more money you'll spend collecting sufficient fluoros.. To get decent results at all you pretty much need atleast a few 42W cfls/plant, and they aren't cheap..
I got most of my HID from electrical/lighting outfitters in the industrial area of town.. Bare bones 400W HPS ballast/bulb/socket were $55 a few years back.. Just walked in, payed cash, walked out with light.. 
Another gem I found there was cheap high-bay reflectors.. My god can you get a nice even/compact light casting for base-up bulbs in those when they're close to the table..


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## purpdaddy (Mar 30, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> That I agree with totally.. Its ironic how much more money you'll spend collecting sufficient fluoros.. To get decent results at all you pretty much need atleast a few 42W cfls/plant, and they aren't cheap..
> I got most of my HID from electrical/lighting outfitters in the industrial area of town.. Bare bones 400W HPS ballast/bulb/socket were $55 a few years back.. Just walked in, payed cash, walked out with light..
> Another gem I found there was cheap high-bay reflectors.. My god can you get a nice even/compact light casting for base-up bulbs in those when they're close to the table..


400W HPS ballast/bulb/socket were $55 !! Fuckin steal! Thats right up my alley! Thats what im gonna do today,im goin check with sum of those industrial lighting suppliers today.Why didnt i think of that! THanks man!


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## born2killspam (Mar 30, 2009)

They aren't always that cheap.. I remember calling places, and the guy mentioned this special they had on.. It was Westburne Electric IIRC.. Regardless, I can't imagine paying more than 20-50% what they want at the hydro-store for the same unit in a nice white chassis, with fancy grommetted cords.. 
Just make sure there is a tap for your voltage.. Everything I've ever bought has been triple tap, but some might need 240V or even 377V (IIRC) only.. Not many contractors will be hooking these up to 120V, so its reasonable to assume that some might be made less costly by eliminating the extra taps..


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## purpdaddy (Mar 30, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> They aren't always that cheap.. I remember calling places, and the guy mentioned this special they had on.. It was Westburne Electric IIRC.. Regardless, I can't imagine paying more than 20-50% what they want at the hydro-store for the same unit in a nice white chassis, with fancy grommetted cords..
> Just make sure there is a tap for your voltage.. Everything I've ever bought has been triple tap, but some might need 240V or even 377V (IIRC) only.. Not many contractors will be hooking these up to 120V, so its reasonable to assume that some might be made less costly by eliminating the extra taps..


 Very true,very very true!didnt think of that either!


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## KaliKitsune (Mar 30, 2009)

wtfgr33n said:


> so this kind http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Other-accessories/auction-209397473.htm
> 
> arggh thats a bit much for me im only 14 years old lol..



you're only 14 years old?

How have you not been banned form this forum yet?


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## born2killspam (Mar 30, 2009)

Didn't notice that part.. I see a new username in the future if they don't ban his IP..


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## Lung Butter (Apr 1, 2009)

Will you be my friend??? We need to Valcun mind meld, or as humans do smoke a bowl.


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## southern homegrower (Apr 1, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> can any one tell me where to get something to stop my bulbs from hot starts. and what it is called?


no one can answer this ?


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## born2killspam (Apr 1, 2009)

If its not already out there it wouldn't be tough to build a suppliment for your timer that keeps it off for x amount if time in the event it loses power.. Wouldn't be nearly as complex as the timer schematic I've posted since only a short term, unprecise duration is required.. 120V or 240V? How many lights, and what types and wattages? 
Also why are you having this problem?? Why are your lights going out?


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## southern homegrower (Apr 1, 2009)

they are not going out yet. but i live in florida / lots of bad weather. just want to prevent it before i have problems. i think it will save me from having to buy as many bulbs


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## southern homegrower (Apr 1, 2009)

hydro shop man said the bulbs will not start up if they are hot.not sure if i should beleave a man that sells bulbs for a living. i think i read somthingto stp hot starts somewere on rollitup but cant find it now


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## KaliKitsune (Apr 1, 2009)

Most HID bulbs require a cool-down before restrike.


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## wildyking07 (Apr 1, 2009)

http://rapidshare.com/files/216273886/watts_Calculater.exe

I have just made this app with Visual Basic, you type in what watt your light is, how many hours a day its on and the cost and it calculates how much the cost will be, check it out cheers


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## born2killspam (Apr 1, 2009)

If ppl want me to when I'm in the mood I could draw up a schematic for a device that goes between your normal timer, and the outlet that would cut power off before it even gets to your timer for 5-10 minutes after a power restart, then kick out of pause mode and allow power as normal when the desired cool down time elapsed..
Depending on simplicity desired, I could just have it do the exact same thing each and every time it regains power, or give it a battery and a counter so it comes on immediately if the power has been down long enough that warm restriking isn't an issue..
I also think you can pay some extra money for bulbs designed for instant restrike, but that may be with MH only.. I've never been too concerned myself, but I don't live there..


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## southern homegrower (Apr 1, 2009)

KaliKitsune said:


> Most HID bulbs require a cool-down before restrike.


are u saying they willnot start if they are hot


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## southern homegrower (Apr 1, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> If ppl want me to when I'm in the mood I could draw up a schematic for a device that goes between your normal timer, and the outlet that would cut power off before it even gets to your timer for 5-10 minutes after a power restart, then kick out of pause mode and allow power as normal when the desired cool down time elapsed..
> Depending on simplicity desired, I could just have it do the exact same thing each and every time it regains power, or give it a battery and a counter so it comes on immediately if the power has been down long enough that warm restriking isn't an issue..
> I also think you can pay some extra money for bulbs designed for instant restrike, but that may be with MH only.. I've never been too concerned myself, but I don't live there..


thanks for the help but i dont think i could build it. i thought there was somthing i could buy to stop it from hapening.


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## born2killspam (Apr 1, 2009)

I spoke too soon.. Like I said, its never been an issue for me, but I knew instant restrike options were out there.. Wasn't sure if it applied to hps due to the tube length would obviously create a serious temperature gradient, but I was wrong..
The trick is in the ignitor.. You could replace your ignitors in your ballasts with instant restrike ignitors that provide more pulses to kick it into action at any temperature..
Your ballasts should be labelled somewhere with their ANSI codes.. You might need to know that to get the proper one..


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## purpdaddy (Apr 1, 2009)

ok.i had this setup but it got stole with the rest of my gow,but i was just a lil fraid to run it 24/0.how safe is this setup to do that cause i got another one coming


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## the.grindin.grinder (Apr 2, 2009)

if u were to have 10 1000 watt lights and a room 24 x 24 and all the other good stuff... how can u maximize the amount of pounds grown? how much plants will be ideal to grow the most amount of pounds of white widow and sour diesal (or how much plants per light)? whats the best spacing for growing in this room? how much pounds would u be expecting? don't worry about the lighting cost or being bait* that will be tricked. and please add any tips or secrets u may have for maximization of plants growth


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## purpdaddy (Apr 2, 2009)

the.grindin.grinder said:


> if u were to have 10 1000 watt lights and a room 24 x 24 and all the other good stuff... how can u maximize the amount of pounds grown? how much plants will be ideal to grow the most amount of pounds of white widow and sour diesal (or how much plants per light)? whats the best spacing for growing in this room? how much pounds would u be expecting? don't worry about the lighting cost or being bait* that will be tricked. and please add any tips or secrets u may have for maximization of plants growth


 Co2 will make a big difference.YOu can make ur own or just get the buckets,that will increase ur yield.


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## the.grindin.grinder (Apr 2, 2009)

rite now i figure per light there would be a area covered of 6 x 6 and 15-25 plants per light (which is better if it even makes sence?) which would make 9 6 x 6 and then save a light (and maybe add an extra light) for the 18 on 6 off room for germation, clones mothers seedlings and etc. this should total a 135-225 plants... how much pounds is that? and does this makes sense? any suggestions would be good


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## born2killspam (Apr 2, 2009)

Thats only 16W/sqft.. But you are talking 596sqft!.. Light movers are key to setups like those.. Considering whats on the line with a go that big, I'd be pulling out my calculus texts to engineer the numbers.. You'd be well advised to section an area like that off into veg/flower chambers obviously.. It would make it more feasible to adequately light a slightly smaller flowering area, and you'll need a fair amount of vegging space to accomodate your new fulltime job..
As for CO2.. Not unless you have atleast 50W/sqft.. Its pointless and would waste ALOT of money to keep that area at 1500ppm..
Problem is, 11, 000kWh/month is kind of tough to justify..


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## the.grindin.grinder (Apr 2, 2009)

ya 2 chambers is ideal... have the 9 lights in the 24x24 floor plan and put the other light in the germenation and veggin from and add a next one if anything. born2killspam or anyone what do u think is the best formation for 24x24 room with 9 lights (1000 watt) or would it be best to split it into 2 homes?


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## purpdaddy (Apr 2, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Thats only 16W/sqft.. But you are talking 596sqft!.. Light movers are key to setups like those.. Considering whats on the line with a go that big, I'd be pulling out my calculus texts to engineer the numbers.. You'd be well advised to section an area like that off into veg/flower chambers obviously.. It would make it more feasible to adequately light a slightly smaller flowering area, and you'll need a fair amount of vegging space to accomodate your new fulltime job..
> As for CO2.. Not unless you have atleast 50W/sqft.. Its pointless and would waste ALOT of money to keep that area at 1500ppm..
> Problem is, 11, 000kWh/month is kind of tough to justify..


Yea just the right amount of lightmovers would be better and distribute light more evenly.And will save u sum money

Spam.did u see my post about the hid setup? about runnin 24/0?please read and lemme know what you think..shits just been botherin me and i aint tryin to burn shit down!! oh im growin in a nice size ROOM. so heat not a real issue.im just wonderin if they get too hot to run 24/0


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## born2killspam (Apr 2, 2009)

I didn't really understand your question.. Why would it worry you?? A light setup is as safe as you install it..


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## purpdaddy (Apr 2, 2009)

im just sayin. is that setup safe to run 24/0.i never ran it 24/0.


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## born2killspam (Apr 2, 2009)

I can only assume so.. Alot of ppl run digital ballasts 24/0.. A fan on any electronics that seem to get warmer than you like can never hurt.. But unless that thing is really built ghetto inside with way underrated parts, it should do what it says it does fine.. Personally I wouldn't want to use it 24/0, but thats because I subscribe to the school of thought that plants should get atleast 4hrs sleep/day..


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## purpdaddy (Apr 2, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I can only assume so.. Alot of ppl run digital ballasts 24/0.. A fan on any electronics that seem to get warmer than you like can never hurt.. But unless that thing is really built ghetto inside with way underrated parts, it should do what it says it does fine.. Personally I wouldn't want to use it 24/0, but thats because I subscribe to the school of thought that plants should get atleast 4hrs sleep/day..


 i agree to that.Just like in nature,they need a lil rest,but im experiminting with 24/0 or i might go 19/4..yea that sounds better!Thanks man!


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## born2killspam (Apr 2, 2009)

I did a side, by side when I moved my vegging area over and was left with an empty closet.. I really didn't see any difference after 12 days between identical NL5 clones lit at 24/0, and 20/4.. That being the case, power seems savable unless you prefer the freedom of 24/7 easy access to your vegging area..
Sadly When I moved that little experiment to flower I didn't think to keep track.. It wasn't the most uniform crop since it was an early one for me, but on the other hand as I remember it, plants simply yeilded an expected proportion given their positions in the jungle..
Ended up with about 60g/sqft mix of nice bud, and really good bud with not so much bag appeal.. And I did surpass 1g/Watt bone dry..


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## Marywhanna (Apr 4, 2009)

wow this post is amazing dang nice guys


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## ThaBigBinkk (Apr 5, 2009)

Suuuuuscriibed. i think this is my biggest problem, understanding the whole light ordeal. considering i do not have the money for an HPS or MH system i was wondering.. Would having *6 CFLs, (3 - 26/watt @ 2700k & 3 - 26/watt @ 5600k) together shouldnt that be enough to cover all aspects of the spectrum in a 3' x 3' x 2' area? I'm obviously planning on keeping the plants small and only plan on vegging for the first week or so then jumping straight into a 12on/12off cycle and at which point i am going to remove the 3 - 26/watt Cfls rated at 5600k and replace them with matching 3 - 26/watt CFLs @ 2700k throughout flowering.. Good Idea/Bad Idea? Any input?


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## born2killspam (Apr 5, 2009)

You can pull a small plant off with that if your expectations aren't that high, but no 3x3 area.. And 2' height isn't alot even for a small plant.. You'll need to control it..
You're talking only 20W of small cfl per sqft (smaller are less efficient, they create more heat/light).. Probably only equivalent to 8-10W hps/sqft.. I wouldn't even think about going less than 40W cfl per sqft, and when I budgeted for that I'd realize that hid is actually the cheapest light to buy..
One of the 400W hps setups I picked up a while back at Westburne Electric for $55 would cover that area sweetly if you had more height..


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## masterkushforever (Apr 5, 2009)

hello everyone dudes what does everyone think about the duel ark thousand watt bulbs 600 watts hps 400 watts mh in one bulb i love them so far any feedback would be great i know there not for a budget grower for sure
!!


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## IgrowBIGG (Apr 6, 2009)

I really need help with my plants grow cycles and outdoor lighting. If someone could please help me thad b great because noone has responded to my posts. Link Below.


https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/180896-plant-cycles-light-lengths-plez.html


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## greenkeeper (Apr 6, 2009)

I have been doing a lot of research about how many lumens per square foot are necessary. I have read that 2000-4000 is best and also 8000 - 10000. How much light can a plant take in without just wasting unnecessary lumens/electricity?


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## born2killspam (Apr 6, 2009)

Lumens at what wavelength?? Plants measure light in photosynthetically active photons, and that correlate to lumens VERY poorly..
HPS lumens you want atleast 6000/sqft.. MH lumens perhaps 8000/sqft.. CFL spectrums and output efficiencies are too variable to say with confidence..


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## cowboylogic (Apr 6, 2009)

I have a few extra ballasts aaround a nd my flowering hood has room to put another mogal socket oposite the one installed. Its a 400hps and was thinking of adding a 400mh to it for flowering. I could even time the bulbs at different times. Like adding 6 hrs of mh during the middle the 12 hr flower cycle. Any thoughts? Thanks


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## born2killspam (Apr 6, 2009)

How many sqft??


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## cowboylogic (Apr 6, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> How many sqft??


 like 2'X4' give or take whats needed. Just a thought about adding the blueside to hps. thanks for the reply. I am very interested in this. Probaly will give it a try and I will do a journal on it.


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## ibitinga (Apr 6, 2009)

is a 1000 watt lamp way too much for a 4x4x6 space?!?!?! lets say I can make ventilation 100% efficient will it still be too much heat and kill my plants if I use a 1000w in a box that will fit only about 6 plants?!?


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## born2killspam (Apr 7, 2009)

Nope, thats a nice light for that area..


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## cowboylogic (Apr 7, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> How many sqft??


 My grow room is 4X6 but only flower in an area about 3X4. I think on my next grow I am going to give it a try. Maybe even do a journal on it.


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## michael roland (Apr 8, 2009)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


You can buy two books from http://www.shayanashop.com/Books/English/pd-821-1003-pm18/Marijuana_Growers-Insiders_guide.aspx and http://www.shayanashop.com/Books/English/pd-441-1003-pm18/Marijuana_Growers_guide-Deluxe.aspx


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## Mr.Niceguy03 (Apr 8, 2009)

What up fellas... I just ordered two Procyon 100 for my grow room, reading grest things sbout those...but I was wondering about those expensive $2000 300w and 600w Led panels like Growl Mastiff... Has anyone experimented with those type of LEDs???? Are they worth they money?????


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## vegas1 (Apr 8, 2009)

they say led is the way of the future, but I still like to build my own lights


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## born2killspam (Apr 8, 2009)

It may very well be the way of the future, but we live in the present.. Building your own HID kits is the best way to go as of April 2009..


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## KaliKitsune (Apr 8, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> It may very well be the way of the future, but we live in the present.. Building your own HID kits is the best way to go as of April 2009..



Bingo! With 150w HPS light and ballast kits for $20 you can't really beat that.

Though I've been watching the miniaturization of plasma halide lamps (not your typical sulfur lamps,) and they're getting VERY close to beating out HPS in output with better spectrum, watt for watt.

Now if they'd only fix the output maintenance and drop the price a grand or so, and I'd be down to use tic-tac sized HID lamps with a flashlight-sized ballast.


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## born2killspam (Apr 8, 2009)

I know, I'm not positive LED's will be next at all really.. There is some cool ass lighting tech out there that just isn't feasible yet..
Another possibility would be light via LED type physics, but not exactly LED, like HV band-gap emmision.. One thing worth noting is that as efficient as LEDs are, the transforming mains to the voltage they work at is going to cost a considerable portion of that efficiency..


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## KaliKitsune (Apr 9, 2009)

I think they make flat-out 120v LEDs that you can just wire in parallel and plug right into the wall.


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## born2killspam (Apr 9, 2009)

Flat-out wouldn't be the proper term.. There are components incorporated to make that power suitable, and they dissipate a decent amount of power considering whats being driven..
Probably something pretty much like this..
http://www.turbokeu.com/myprojects/acled.htm


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## ultra2008 (Apr 10, 2009)

What is the distance the *light* travels from the *light* generator to the pool?) 
these are *things* the installer should *know*. Ask the installer to show you


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## born2killspam (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm a bit confused regarding that last post..


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## Freddie Roach (Apr 10, 2009)

Im wondering are these HID dual spectrum lights good? I am getting 2 400w lights that can have MH or HPS but the guy said they have dual spectrum bulbs that can be used in veg and flowering. Is this correct or am i better off getting an HPS for flowering and an MH for flowering.


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## wannabee (Apr 10, 2009)

i've been having trouble finding a timer for my 400 w hps/mh light and bought an outdoor timer that has different settings: 2 hour, 4 hour, 6, 8 and a dusk ot dawn setting. i need 12/12 for now. can someone explain how this outdoor timer works. is there a light sensor that when the sun comes up the appliance will go on? maybe you'd need more information, i'll try to take a pic and post it. i'm going away for a couple of days so i won't be able to turn it on and off. does anyone know where one can buy a heavy duty timer (compatible with the three pronged plug of the light). i tried to put an adapter on a regular appliance timer, and it didn't work. thanks


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## southern homegrower (Apr 10, 2009)

homedepot has timers


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## born2killspam (Apr 10, 2009)

Freddie Roach said:


> Im wondering are these HID dual spectrum lights good? I am getting 2 400w lights that can have MH or HPS but the guy said they have dual spectrum bulbs that can be used in veg and flowering. Is this correct or am i better off getting an HPS for flowering and an MH for flowering.


Not really enough detail.. There are a ton of enhanced spectrum bulbs out there.. Probably cost more than they benefit, but they can't hurt.. Generally though they are pretty close to standard bulbs for that ballast type.. The dual arc bulbs are a different story.. They are broad spectrum in a non-chincy way.. I've never used them, but the dual tech seems to come at an efficiency cost from specs I've seen..


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## by1969 (Apr 10, 2009)

Don't steal it...go buy one. I bet you wouldn't like it if I stole you stuff... Can't believe people sometimes...



1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


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## born2killspam (Apr 10, 2009)

Nah let him.. Then when he gets busted he'll pay 100 fold.. Whether he gets busted stealing lights and that leads them to his grow op, or if he gets busted for growing outright and they recover stolen property on the premises thats being used for criminal purposes.. Its a prosecutor's wet dream..


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## youngGRASShopper (Apr 17, 2009)

does anyone know an example of a cheap effective grow light i could use for one plant


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## born2killspam (Apr 17, 2009)

Call the electrical/lighting places in the phone-book, and ask if they sell small street light type lights..


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## MR PIFF (Apr 17, 2009)

LED UFO GROW LIGHTS


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## MR PIFF (Apr 17, 2009)

Led ufo grow lights--google it its dope dude


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## MR PIFF (Apr 17, 2009)




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## born2killspam (Apr 17, 2009)

Ever grown buds with LED? I'm thinking not..


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## MR PIFF (Apr 17, 2009)

YO STONERSZ...ITS MR PIFF YA DIG AND YALL SHOULD NO IF U DONT ABOUT THE NEWEST TECHNOLOGY IN LIGHTING!! THAT IS LED UFO LIGHTS WHICH COME IN AS TRI BRAND SPECTRUM AND DUO SPECTRUM!! GOOGLE THIS ANDF SEE FOR YA SELF!! HOPE THIS HELPS PEOPLE WITH ANY LIGHT PROBLEMS---THESE LIGHTS USE 90 WATTS AND EMIT 400-600 WATT HPS/HID EQUILIVANCE, SO LESS ENERGY ON THE BILL, AND LESS HEAT IS PRODUCED--ITS DOPE MY CLONES GROWIN 2 MONTHS BUD AND ALL, AND I LET EM GO LONGER FOR BIGGER TASTIER SHYT CHECK IT OUT


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## born2killspam (Apr 17, 2009)

I have more faith that your grammar will improve than I do in the fact that current LED technology will grow dope well..
Why should we take lighting advice from somebody who thinks putting off harvest is beneficial??


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## KaliKitsune (Apr 18, 2009)

MR PIFF said:


> YO STONERSZ...ITS MR PIFF YA DIG AND YALL SHOULD NO IF U DONT ABOUT THE NEWEST TECHNOLOGY IN LIGHTING!! THAT IS LED UFO LIGHTS WHICH COME IN AS TRI BRAND SPECTRUM AND DUO SPECTRUM!! GOOGLE THIS ANDF SEE FOR YA SELF!! HOPE THIS HELPS PEOPLE WITH ANY LIGHT PROBLEMS---THESE LIGHTS USE 90 WATTS AND EMIT 400-600 WATT HPS/HID EQUILIVANCE, SO LESS ENERGY ON THE BILL, AND LESS HEAT IS PRODUCED--ITS DOPE MY CLONES GROWIN 2 MONTHS BUD AND ALL, AND I LET EM GO LONGER FOR BIGGER TASTIER SHYT CHECK IT OUT


Umm, you do realize they make T5HO lamps that do the exact same thing, in pure red and pure blue spectrums, right? They're called Primary Color T5HO.

Take the same idea behind LED, apply to T5HO technology, adios LED.


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## Houser (Apr 22, 2009)

youngGRASShopper said:


> does anyone know an example of a cheap effective grow light i could use for one plant


Go to you local Lowes/Home Depot and look at the new T5 florecent strip lights. They are cheap and will work fine for one plant.


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## Dowd1 (Apr 24, 2009)

Ive got a question. I went to home depot, and found they carry 400w metal halyde and high pressure sodium bulbs,just like the ones in my closet for around $22.00. my question is ,are the bulbs in home depot the same bulb as the ones in my local hydro store.I only ask because of the obvious price difference.
if they are the same why pay 60.00 for a hps bulb when i can get the same bulb from home depot for 1/3 the price


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## born2killspam (Apr 25, 2009)

They're 99% the same.. With limited funds it would be MUCH better to apply the extra $38 to other things..


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## FirstTimeGrow12 (Apr 25, 2009)

Im growing outdoors and my seeds have just germinated. Im keeping them inside in a 10 day starter box. There is gonna b about 6 plants under a 23W florecent light for 10 days. Is that gonna b alright?


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## born2killspam (Apr 25, 2009)

I'd use 2-3 23W cfls.. What kind of area do they cover as is in your pots?? The ones to the side will likely stretch alot..


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## boonanaking (Apr 27, 2009)

cool, i'm glad you put this up; it's good to know what amount of lumens etc that my lights are putting out. [fluorescent]


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## GrowSpecialist (Apr 30, 2009)

FirstTimeGrow12 said:


> Im growing outdoors and my seeds have just germinated. Im keeping them inside in a 10 day starter box. There is gonna b about 6 plants under a 23W florecent light for 10 days. Is that gonna b alright?


IMO, that would be fine. As long as its only, its only 10 days.


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## KGB27 (May 1, 2009)

*How can I optimize the light output?* 
You can help reflect the light out of each tube, by using metal foil tape as a reflector, attached directly to the tube as shown in this faq. click here Using clear plastic safety sleeves over the fluorescent tubes allows you to recycle the metal foil reflective tape.

This is a great idea that I never thought to do. I am going to start seedlings under flourescents this time in order to cut down on power consumption and I will foil tape the tops, it can only help....thanks Mogie


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## masterhydro (May 4, 2009)

I have a UFO that is equal to a 400 W HPS over my 15 plants. The biggest one is 17 inches tall. The UFO is starting to no penetrate threw all the leaves and the bottum ones are dying because of this. If I hang compact flouresents around the side of the grow area will it help the bottum leaves get more light or will it effect the light that the UFO is giving off and mess my plants up? ANY INFO APPRECIATED!!


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## KaliKitsune (May 4, 2009)

masterhydro said:


> I have a UFO that is equal to a 400 W HPS over my 15 plants. The biggest one is 17 inches tall. The UFO is starting to no penetrate threw all the leaves and the bottum ones are dying because of this. If I hang compact flouresents around the side of the grow area will it help the bottum leaves get more light or will it effect the light that the UFO is giving off and mess my plants up? ANY INFO APPRECIATED!!


Your plants will be fine with extra supplementary light.


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## Hulk Nugs (May 4, 2009)

Alright i am getting ready to make some changes in my flower room and veg room 

Right now i have :

*Flower room*
400 wat hps
4inch can fan
6inch blower

*Veg room*
600 wat mH
pc fans hahaha


I was thinking of putting the two lights together in a cooltube setup in the flower room so i would have 1000 wats (400hps,600mh) should i do this ??

If i do this i will hook up the can fan to the lights then do ducing to the ouside.

I will then get a fluoresent lights out for my veg room that will help with the heat in there. 

Just not to sure if you can have to much light, since i only have a 2x2 area, the rooms bigger then that but thats the size of the area i am growing in.

Edit: I also have a 250mh just sitting on a shelf not being used but i dont have a ballast for it....... whats the most watage i should put in a 2x2 from what i read on FAQ they said 400 is fine but if i can get more wats in there and then get bigger nugs i want to ya know hahaha.


I am trying to provide all the info you would need to think of how the setup is but if theres anymore questions let me know.


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## born2killspam (May 4, 2009)

400W hps is more than enough for 2x2, and 600W MH is way more than enough to veg for a 2x2 area.. Save some money and get a few cfls to veg with, and just put the MH away until you have a worthwhile job for it.. I'm all for mixing MH into the flower room, but 250W/sqft is equivalent to almost twice as bright as the sun ever hits the earth, and yes too much light for extended periods is bad.. They can use about 50W/sqft for an entire 12hr day fairly effectively without CO2 addition.. With CO2 they can use a bit more.. Give them more light than they have water/CO2 to process and photosynthesis starts going haywire and starts creating destructive compounds that destroy chloroplasts rather than what the plant needs..


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## That 5hit (May 4, 2009)

leds real or hype
can i grow under colored lights (red and blue) would this be the same as led 
i see a lot of led setups online and they all are red and blue 7/2 could i just by a massive amount of red and blue party bulbs and have a seed to harvest grow during my research i found out that its not about the brightness of your light but the spectrum led's do a good job at forcing the red/blue light spec. onto plants could this theory work with colored lightbulbs, it would defiantly be cheaper
and why are leds so much $$ couldn't I just buy a bunch of super bright x-mass light, about 50 leds come on each string so about 7 reds 2 blue tape all the lights together or how ever just put them together so they kind of look like the ones online.
would the light thats produce be comparable to led made now. i mean we are talking about 400 super bright xmas light focussed to one point and not the typical pointed sape but the ones that look flat at the top in theory this could and should work?????
maybe


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## KaliKitsune (May 4, 2009)

That 5hit said:


> leds real or hype
> can i grow under colored lights (red and blue) would this be the same as led
> i see a lot of led setups online and they all are red and blue 7/2 could i just by a massive amount of red and blue party bulbs and have a seed to harvest grow during my research i found out that its not about the brightness of your light but the spectrum led's do a good job at forcing the red/blue light spec. onto plants could this theory work with colored lightbulbs, it would defiantly be cheaper
> and why are leds so much $$ couldn't I just buy a bunch of super bright x-mass light, about 50 leds come on each string so about 7 reds 2 blue tape all the lights together or how ever just put them together so they kind of look like the ones online.
> ...


You would be wasting more $$$ on energy in a few months using colored light bulbs than you would spend just buying an HID or even an LED array.

Intensity of the light matters absolutely. One watt of quality light ain't going to get you a pound unless you spent decades on the plant.


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## Mr.Niceguy03 (May 7, 2009)

I agree don't steal bulbs or electricity bro.. Thats how people get busted over stupid small stuff


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

Same room...
Same grow...
Same strain...
Same res...

The ONLY difference is MH vs HPS...

Any thoughts?


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

And what do you guys make of this post?



Major Tom said:


> Holy shit I think I know why my plant was having a hard time to bloom!!!!
> 
> The fucking CLF's glow for HOURS after you turn them off!
> 
> ...


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## born2killspam (May 9, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> And what do you guys make of this post?


Most ingenuitive attempt to shift blame in the history of shifting blame.. 
Extra light time would only help the plant process that over abundance of fertilzer..


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## KaliKitsune (May 9, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> And what do you guys make of this post?


A huge honking lie. When a CFL goes off, the residual charge is barely enough to even excite the green phosphors in a CFL. The last few moments of actual light emission left is almost purely in the green range and doesn't last more than about twenty seconds.

I've *NEVER* had a problem flowering using any fluorescent lamp, even set at 14/10.

Poor fool burned the CRAP out of his plants. WAY too much nitrogen and a major imbalance of calcium and magnesium.


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## born2killspam (May 9, 2009)

Its not that there is even residual charge.. Well, I guess thats as good a general description as any.. The current stops instantly the only energy (not charge exactly) is in excited electrons within the phosphors (similar to excited electrons that drive photosynthesis).. Fluorescents are coated with phosphors that are pretty much the same as glow-in-the-dark trinkets..
Phosphorescent lighting like glow sticks are actually used in scenarios where any typical lighting would cause problems (like dark periods).. For instance, on The Unit, they used glow sticks to see while disarming a bomb that had a light activated trigger.. The excuse doesn't even fly from a theoretical POV..


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## mitch48093 (May 9, 2009)

thank you much for all the great info.....


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## kasizzle (May 10, 2009)

mitch48093 said:


> thank you much for all the great info.....


no prob dude


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## Toke+Choke (May 11, 2009)

this really helped my understand effeciency more thanks 

peace and respect


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## Big Buddy Belter (May 17, 2009)

Hey there every1

Just new to all this got a wee queery about lights, I've currently got a 400w mh and a 400w hps. Just wondering what's the best light to use? I'm using the mh for the veg stage the noo then al use the hps for flowering. But I'm a bit greedy n want maximum buddage and been told that I should jst use the hps for veg and flowering to maximize my buds. Is there any truth in this? Cheers guys


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## born2killspam (May 17, 2009)

How many square/cubic feet? What kind of cooling?? If its warranted for the spece you should use both for flowering, and the MH for vegging..


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## Big Buddy Belter (May 17, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> How many square/cubic feet? What kind of cooling?? If its warranted for the spece you should use both for flowering, and the MH for vegging..


The tent I'm using is 4ft x 4ft x 6.5ft, I'm using 100mm o/d carbon extraction and keeping the side flaps open for fresh air. Got a medium sized fan in the tent to circulate the air aswel. 
The light I'm using is a single light fitting so won't be able to hav both lights  I was going to switch the bulbs over wen it comes to flowering. Also got a humidifier in the tent to keep the humidity at 55%. Do u think it would be worth while to invest in a double light fitting system for my 400w mh and 400w hps bulbs? Oh n thanks for the reply much appreciated.


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## briwaller (May 19, 2009)

good question, i used the 400 hps for both, and got some fat tops, but, maybe i could have gotten more, i hear that more watts = bigger yield.


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## briwaller (May 19, 2009)

ya, u dont want ur girls getting 2 close to the light., i like the cfl's down below too


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## briwaller (May 19, 2009)

i got a thowy,!!!


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## KaliKitsune (May 19, 2009)

I'm going to have fun. for 5 plants I'm going to be running during flowering 832w. 432 T5HO and 400 HPS. I think I'm gonna mount one T5 to the wall, hang the other from the sliding door frame, and run the HPS a bit above and between them, hanging from the shelf bar. 166.4w per plant. I think I'm going to get some great nuggage, especially using a DWC system. The closet is only about 2 feet deep, so the mounting of the T5HO like that should be optimal for the sides and bottom growth and the HPS should provide more than enough for the tops. My two seedlings, assuming they are female, will have to sit at the outside edges, because the clones are getting all of the attention!

Here's the current setup - only using 216w T5HO for the moment. Once they get 18-24 inches tall or so, I'm going to start flowering them and kicking on the other two lights.


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

Personally, I prefer buds that came off spots on the table that got maybe 20W/sqft, never cared much for the 2oz colas etc..
And if you're going to use that much light, you should add some CO2 to help them use whatever portion of it they can.. You're talking intensities likely exceeding the brighest sun that hits the planet for 12hrs straight.. I have a pdf on photosynthesis that explains why thats not really the best idea.. 
Have you considered running partial intensity for early/late day??


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

I practically live in the office where my closet is located. They get all the CO2 they need from my fiance and myself sitting no more than 10 feet away.

And no, I've never considered partial intensity for my normal lighting, I only use that rule with UVB bulbs during flowering. Everything else gets as much power as I can throw at it. Especially since I'm doing a mixed fluorescent/HID grow. The fluorescent works great, but it produces fairly dense plants and the canopy penetration isn't as good as an HID. The maximum best effective range for my T5 is about 18-24", but with a dense plant it's more like 12-15 inches. 

I'm going for good lighting all around the plants, especially paying attention to the lower sections of the plant which tend to get poor lighting during flowering. The entire closet is say 16 square feet, so once all is set I'll put down about 50w/sqft. I will space the plants out to allow for as much growing room as possible without sacrificing light exposure. I am doing DWC, after all. It would be a shame to keep the plants small when this type of hydroponics is meant for yield.


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## kubrickzghost (May 20, 2009)

melushell said:


> you have any experience with that??? or you just 'know'??
> 
> 
> LED Grow Lights.com Home Page
> ...


Okay, then come back and sell your LED's later in the future. Until NASA figures out how to make LED's work, I'll stick with my little teenie-weenie 150W HPS's.


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

Ok, I was thinking something closer to 8sqft.. Thats a wierd closet, 2ishx8ish.. On the partial lighting aspect, could you move the HID around in there?


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Ok, I was thinking something closer to 8sqft.. Thats a wierd closet, 2ishx8ish.. On the partial lighting aspect, could you move the HID around in there?


I could move the HID around a little bit but with the support hooks holding up the wooden bar below the shelf (which is what the HPS hangs from) it makes it a pain in the ass to move to the right. Here's a pic - you can see the support hooks behind the leftmost rope (helps support the old heavy-duty power strip) and behind the HPS ballast power cord. What's strange is there are no other support hooks - on the left side of the closet the bar is free and clear from the center support hook down.

Here's two pics to give you the idea of my closet. First pic is the right side, second pic is inside, sitting down (as far back as the near-vertical T5HO in pic #1 allows,) facing the left side. It's a narrow closet, and as it is both T5HO lamps have to be slightly raised towards the center of the closet so they can both hang equally, hence the idea of mounting/suspending the T5s to the wall/from the door stud with the HPS on top.


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

What kinda height you got total?? I know you're good at this, and will get it nailed, but if a noob posted those pics with those little guys creeping towards the ceiling I'd be worried..
On that note, what kind of results do you see with T5's as compared to HID (in flowering obviously)?? I've never used them, and most of the results with them are from noobs that were just too cheap to get HID, so I can't really hold those disappointments to the lights themselves..


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

For height I'm looking at a maximum of about four feet for the plants, from the top of the bucket to the safest bottom area below the HPS. For flowering, the T5HO will work quite nicely as long as a few caveats are observed. First caveat - two to three feet is the maximum usable range of the T5HO lamp, after that my light meter barely reads above 150, which is about useless for growing anything but algae and moss and lichens. Second caveat - T5HO lamps have only about fifteen inches of maximum canopy penetration. Below that, again my light meter reads around 150. Otherwise, for flowering they work out very well. The fact that T5HO bulbs output some UVB (whereas MH and HPS bulbs have to have a borosilicate UV filter) helps out with potency. It is true T5HO gets you just a wee bit less in density and weight unless you supplement or find a creative solution to maximize light exposure/usage, but that tiny UVB output does tend to make up for it in the power of the smoke.

For vegging T5HO certainly does the trick, though, as you can see from those clones. They've only been in those buckets for two weeks as of today, and when I first got them in there they only had three or four fan leaves. Even the seedlings, with their tops an easy seven or eight inches from the lights, are not stretching out at all. Growth between internodes remains very short, far less than a centimeter per node.

I like T5HO. I don't have to worry about special ballasts or conversion bulbs to obtain the color spread that I want, plus they make UVB T5HO bulbs so you can crank up THC production and have a balanced color spectrum all in one array. I do have to worry about plants burning if they get right on the bulb but otherwise it's not an issue. They really don't produce much heat, and they're pretty much silent. Figure out creative ways of maximizing light exposure and you can get explosive growth and incredible density, I'd wager, which is why I'm going to try that full canopy of light idea. If the closet were more square, I'd try disassembling my T5HO array and extending the wire, and putting them in a vertical configuration.


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

What does your meter read at the closest point you could safely let the plants reach?? (At centre tube and edges)..
I'm a GIANT fan of MH in the flower chamber.. Sure the plants directly under hps's were denser/beefier, but the ones getting primarily MH light produced much more enjoyable bud.. I don't know if it was due to increased UVB, UVA, or just bluer light, I just know that had no regrets about pawning off the bigass industrial sized hps colas and keeping my sweet MH nugs.. My favorite buds tended to grow where they were probably getting about 20W/sqft primarily MH light..


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

UVA doesn't work with THC, according to studies. 

Let me whip out the light meter and I'll record an HD video for you so you can see the effective ranges and intensities for yourself at various spots. Give me a few minutes as this will take time to upload and whatnot.


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

err, more like half an hour. Stupid uploading speed is stuck about 25 k/s. 60 meg video to upload.


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

Ugh, it's going to take even longer - upload interrupted by someone using a microwave. 

I was at 74%, too. vimeo really needs an upload resume feature.


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

Finally uploaded!!

http://vimeo.com/4753138

It may not show immediately - they have to convert it first, but the video is only a couple of minutes long so it shouldn't take much time at all, at most ten minutes.

Enjoy the show B2KS.


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## GypsyBush (May 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I have a pdf on photosynthesis that explains why thats not really the best idea..


I would love to see it..

Could you copy and paste it over here?

Thanks!!!


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

Well, the way we measured the sun was at sea level. Where kush became landrace was quite a bit higher up, and thus the intensity is far greater up there, due to things like less atmospheric distortion, thinner air, plus the inverse law works every millimeter of the way from the sun to the surface.


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

Isn't it retarded that they chose ~2.45GHz for communication.. There is a reason MW's work in that range (water resonant frequency), and they've been around alot longer.. You're a little better off using the lowest channels, 10-11 are right smack dab in MW land..
No rush at all, I'm just curious..


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

PM me with an email address that can accept a 1.2MB pdf file, anybody who wants it.. The board doesn't support it as an attachment..


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## GypsyBush (May 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> PM me with an email address that can accept a 1.2MB pdf file, anybody who wants it.. The board doesn't support it as an attachment..


No way to copy and paste the text?


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

I'm using a trial version of Foxit right now, and that doesn't let me do that.. I'll look into a reader that can.. Alot of it will be way over ppl's heads anyways, its pretty intense biochem.. I have alot of post secondary chemistry under my belt, and alot of it baffles me, but a few key aspects will pop out at anybody who understands the bulk of what we discuss here..
For now, here are screen caps of the part I was talking about.. The file itself is roughly 30pgs, and covers chemical reactions involved in various forms of PS..


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

Thanks for the vid kali, but I won't be able to watch it until I get onto a pc from this millenium, I fried my normal pc the other day, literally.. I don't keep the case on it, and I zapped myself with a flyback, and dropped a lead carrying 20000+ volts right inside it.. I'd be pissed off about it if it was say 120V, but the HV just makes it poetically funny.. 
(It was only a P3, and for the record that 20000V just hurts, it only carries a few mA.. Kind of like a spark plug..)


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## GypsyBush (May 20, 2009)

Thanks for posting that...

I'm on it!


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Thanks for the vid kali, but I won't be able to watch it until I get onto a pc from this millenium, I fried my normal pc the other day, literally.. I don't keep the case on it, and I zapped myself with a flyback, and dropped a lead carrying 20000+ volts right inside it.. I'd be pissed off about it if it was say 120V, but the HV just makes it poetically funny..
> (It was only a P3, and for the record that 20000V just hurts, it only carries a few mA.. Kind of like a spark plug..)


You can watch the video on older computers no problem - just turn off HD by clicking on the HD off button and it should run no problems.

I just mounted one T5HO to the wall, BTW - here's a pic.


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

No video shows, maybe if I installed a newer browser for javascript, might as well get Opera on here anyway, running Win95 w/IE4 on a P1 233.. My buddy has a pc comprable to my fried one for me as soon as I get over there.. I have everything except RAM for a 2.8GHz box, but non obsolete hw costs money, and I kind of pride myself on what I can pull off with pathetic systems.. I'm actually extremely computer savvy in a way.. I mean sure I just learned what twitter is yesterday, but I've been programming/troubleshooting pc's and other systems for decades.. I really miss the days when you had to be a geek to even use a computer.. It was so peaceful..


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## KaliKitsune (May 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> No video shows, maybe if I installed a newer browser for javascript, might as well get Opera on here anyway, running Win95 w/IE4 on a P1 233.. My buddy has a pc comprable to my fried one for me as soon as I get over there.. I have everything except RAM for a 2.8GHz box, but non obsolete hw costs money, and I kind of pride myself on what I can pull off with pathetic systems.. I'm actually extremely computer savvy in a way.. I mean sure I just learned what twitter is yesterday, but I've been programming/troubleshooting pc's and other systems for decades.. I really miss the days when you had to be a geek to even use a computer.. It was so peaceful..


I remember when you had to be a geek just to get on the internet. It was much more peaceful then, too!

I didn't know P1 processors got to 233, I thought the start of 200+ MHz was with the Pentium Pro, then the Pentium II Which was just a Pentium Pro with MMX instructions added on and a slight die shrink.

2.8 GHz system - what sort of RAM? I have DDR2 and possibly DDR1 lying around I might be able to send to you. Might only be 512 MB but that's enough for a decent XP or 2K system.


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## born2killspam (May 21, 2009)

Its the last processor before P2 266.. Maybe it is a Pentium Pro, it does support mmx.. And when I was talking to the guy I mentioned this morning, he was talking about giving me some 512's for the 2.8, so he could free up his slots to upgrade himself, but I gotta help him trash some bind-weed for it.. (Thats the Borg of invasive plants btw
And yea, I'm a 2k/Linux guy.. There aren't many things XP can do that 2K cannot, except rape your system resources.. 
In the meantime, hell I just realized I can watch that vid on my xbox.. Duh..


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## KaliKitsune (May 21, 2009)

LOL Yes the XBox will play the video XD


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## born2killspam (May 21, 2009)

I was kind of an xbox modding guru, but I got banned from xbox-scene when I stated my opinion that the site had become some pathetic corporate lap-dog to M$ and a couple chip vendors..
It used to be about reverse engineering the system, not anymore.. I imagine I'll get banned from here someday if one of those fandangled nutrient concoction companies decides to throw alot of money at this site..


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## KaliKitsune (May 21, 2009)

I never got into any scene except the demoscene, which was much fun.

So I got the other light hung up today opposite the one mounted on the wall. Got a picture for ya from top down. Checkit! 400wHPS above and between dual 4-lamp T5HO arrays! GLORIOUS, isn't it?


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## born2killspam (May 21, 2009)

Nice, it looks like a machine.. Do you know the growth pattern of these plants in flowering already, do you expect a battle to keep them from encroaching on the T5's?? Oh wait, you tend to viciously clear the lower stuff and scrog right? Assuming those are intended to shine from below the canopy wouldn't you get a slightly better projection if you were to squeeze the bottoms in a bit, and tilt the top of the T5's towards the walls??


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## KaliKitsune (May 21, 2009)

I'm going to put a thin clear plastic film over the T5 lights to help prevent encroaching into the fixture, because they WILL burn the plants about 4mm away from the bulb. This time I'm not going to scrog, I'm going to let the plants do their thing, clone the bottoms or make mothers from bottom clones, and get started into a cycle. The T5s will be to accomodate lower bud growth.


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## born2killspam (May 21, 2009)

Really, 4mm?? And when you say burn you mean scorch right, not burst into flames?? JK but I would have thought like 15mm..


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## KaliKitsune (May 21, 2009)

Just scorch. No bursting into flames. They don't seem to burn until they're about a BB's thickness away.

Pic attached is the damage to the Purple Kush from letting it get that close to the light, yesterday. Note 4mm is just what I observed. I have seen the plant within 10mm no problem.


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## southern homegrower (May 26, 2009)

does a 1000 w hps use a 1000 watts per hour?


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## KaliKitsune (May 26, 2009)

southern homegrower said:


> does a 1000 w hps use a 1000 watts per hour?


It'll use a bit more than that at the ballast due to conversion inefficiency, but yes, a 1000w bulb will use 24 kilowatt-hours if left on for a day.


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## southern homegrower (May 26, 2009)

KaliKitsune said:


> It'll use a bit more than that at the ballast due to conversion inefficiency, but yes, a 1000w bulb will use 24 kilowatt-hours if left on for a day.


thanks for the info.


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## born2killspam (May 26, 2009)

'Bulb' being the key word.. A magnetic ballast can burn 10-20% more, electronic ones are more efficient, but won't have the lifespan of a plain old transformer/capacitor..


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## southern homegrower (May 26, 2009)

thanks mine is digital


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## southern homegrower (May 26, 2009)

is that the same as electronic ?


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## born2killspam (May 27, 2009)

Yes, digital = electronic in this context..


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## ceilingbeds (May 27, 2009)

about the lighting.... I am at the point where I need to make the decision about what kind of lights to buy. people have told me HPS is the best, which looks right if that lumen output is correct. But why have I heard to use a fluorescent light (t5) in the vegetation stage. They told me the t5 uses less electricity or energy so its cheaper on the utilities bill. Wouldn't I want to always be supplying it with the most amount of lumen output as possible. I came across a website that has a bunch of different categories for grow lights... I'm thinking the HPS section. the 1000 watt...but there are some differences, looking for an explanation if at all possible. and I also noticed the "dual system" it seems more expensive than HPS...I naturally assumed the more expensive the better, but figured I'd ask for an explanation on that as well. Heres the link so you know what I'm talking about. http://www.hydroempire.com/store/index.php/cPath/3?osCsid=62267078f3b56737d33b3f13c8be10b3

I also need a general explanation as to how HPS works. I hear theres a bulb, and a ballast. Like how many pieces are there, what does what, what costs what. If I wanted to buy a system used off of something like ebay or craigslist, isn't knowing how long the bulb has been used very important. How often do you normally have to replace HPS bulbs.


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## KaliKitsune (May 27, 2009)

All gas bulbs have a ballast. Fluorescents, HID, even the new plasma lights have a ballast. Most fluorescents don't get so hot due to their lower power so they work fine with a self-enclosed ballast. HID lamps have their ballast away from the bulb, because the bulb gets hot and so does the ballast. This makes for loads of heat output. 

Basic setup of any gas lamp is power cord to ballast, ballast to bulb. 

I use T5HO fluorescents because of the great quality of light and output for power used. Watt for watt, a T5HO at 54watts does 5000 lumens, most of these 50 watt MH lamps I'm looking at are doing about 3400 lumens. T5HO - 93 l/w versus the MH 68 l/w. The CRI and PUR/PAR is better on the T5HO, as well. Until you get to over 250w of power, the MH doesn't compare to the T5HO. My setup using T5HO for veg is awesome. I have nice bushes and it's only week three since I picked up and transplanted, they are almost two feet tall. I'm going to flower after the next week, then I'll kick on the HPS above. Right now, the lights are mounted sideways to keep the entire plant well-lit while they grow upwards for their last week.


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## ceilingbeds (May 27, 2009)

Great post, but I am new to this you could say, and trying to wrap my mind around it. I am only interested in these for growing marijuana...I grow my fruits, herbs, and veggies outside  lol. Did I understand this correctly. These NLites are better than HPS.

I want blue light during the vegetation stage because it supports foliage, and red light during the flowring stage because it will help mature the buds. ????


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## ceilingbeds (May 27, 2009)

sideways!!!! hella good idea.. You think it would work if you had them on the side and on the top....? throughout the whole process...?


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## KaliKitsune (May 27, 2009)

Basically if you are doing a lower-power grow, using T5HO for veg works better. If you're doing large scale, you're best off using MH. NLites would work.

And As for the sideways mount - it's the only way to maximize the potential of any linear fluorescent that I've come up with so far for multiple plants. For a singe plant vertical mounting is fine.


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## born2killspam (May 28, 2009)

Lights on the sides only after sufficient light above.. Forget grow specific lights.. call electrical/lighting outfitters in your phone book and see what they carry for HID.. Both MH and HPS are installed by contractors alot.. Saves ALOT of money..
As for the wattage, it depends on your growspace size, and ventilation..


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## Big Buddy Belter (May 28, 2009)

Hey there guys and dolls, quick we question for my 1st grow. I've currently got a 4 x 4 x 6.5 Mylar grow tent, with a 400w mh, also got a 600w hps system. Going to use both lights at flowerin stage got 8 plants chronic, ardens strawb haze and sweet tooth. Don't want to burn my babies so what's a good distance to put my lights? Oh not got an air intake yet jst relyin on the vents at the side of the tent. Any help will be greatly appreciated


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## born2killspam (May 28, 2009)

Start high enough, and work them down over a few days, and if you see problems, raise them up..


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## Big Buddy Belter (May 28, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Start high enough, and work them down over a few days, and if you see problems, raise them up..


Nice 1 that's a perfect idea


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## born2killspam (May 28, 2009)

I'd probably start them atleast 24" above.. How close you can get them will depend on temps/humidity, but without a cool tube don't go clower than 1ft with the 400W, and maybe 18" with the 600W.. Even if you don't see damage then, you will soon after..


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## ceilingbeds (May 31, 2009)

Just looking for some quick advise on a popular thread...thanks guys.

I have a 10ft. wide by 12 ft. wide by 10 ft high room. starting first yield with 6 plants, want maximum yield, and maximum potency. have great ventillation, and great reflection. also ability to set up exhaust for lights. 

I want to use three 400w HPS bulbs for flowering...always looking for more opinions on a good kelvin number for the flowering and veg stage.

And then use TFHO lights for the vegetation stage... never used those before though so need all advise on that route. 

Thanks everyone.... I KNOW THERE IS SO MUCH CONTROVERSY about lights, even in this thread...so i always ask to put your "why explanation" with anything you advise...


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## born2killspam (May 31, 2009)

1200W is only good for about 1/4 of that space.. Don't worry about kelvins, just call electrical/lighting places in your phonebook, and stack the hid (HPS/MH mix) for cheap and you won't regret it.. Aim for 40W/sqft of canopy..


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## weedTHEpeople (Jun 3, 2009)

great post! everytime i open a thread on this site i learn something new!!! rep+ most definately!


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## slyone824 (Jun 6, 2009)

i'm unsure this is the right site to ask this question, but my grow lights are not working. I have an outflowering plant which i give 21hrs light 3 dark. After the last dark period the lights won't turn on. The ballast is still running(well the fan turns on) and i even changed out the lights to make sure it didn't die on me.....has anyone ever had this problem? i check all the outlets to make sure it is plugged in and they are. any help would be appriciated. thank you


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## born2killspam (Jun 6, 2009)

Do you own a multimeter?? Is it an electronic or a magnetic ballast??


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## arya (Jun 8, 2009)

Please advise if the four T12 fluorescent light bulbs by Sylvania Grolux (two of them are 30 watts and two are 40 watts and 48 inches long) I have are adequate for seedling and vegetative growth phase of 25 seedlings?

For you to have a better idea, my grow area is 1meter by 1meter. I figured that I will be left with 9-10 female plants (with God's grace!), which should do o.k in a space 1 meter by 1 meter. 

I am considering using fluorescent bulbs instead of the 600 watt hps light that I have because they run cooler and I don't need to have the a/c crankin 18 hrs a day for the 6 weeks of veg growth. Do u recommend this or am I better off using the 600 watt hps light?

God Bless!


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## born2killspam (Jun 8, 2009)

Thats enough to veg that area, except you won't really be able to fit the light in there well.. And I think its gonna get awfully crowded in there with 25 unless you're going for a really fast flip to 12/12..


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## RncdTsdyMf (Jun 14, 2009)

is it ok for plants to be exposed to a low red night light when in their sleeping hours? thanx.


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## born2killspam (Jun 15, 2009)

Do you know how far red 730nm is?


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## ce2009 (Jun 15, 2009)

whats the lowest wattage bulb i can use?


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## bgmike8 (Jun 17, 2009)

how far will a 1000 watt hps penetrate?


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## bgmike8 (Jun 18, 2009)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


just because im a criminal doesnt mean im a scumbag that will steal shit.


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## Greeneyez77 (Jun 20, 2009)

RncdTsdyMf said:


> is it ok for plants to be exposed to a low red night light when in their sleeping hours? thanx.


Plants cannot be disturbed during sleeping hours at all and especailly with red spectrum, it messes with the photosynthesist.


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## bgmike8 (Jun 20, 2009)

actually it messes with photocyte or whatever chemical it is that tells the plant to flower. i had to tape over my ac led display so it wouldnt shine at night.


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## 420Doode (Jun 24, 2009)

Do you have an opinion on OttLite? I just got a ton of em' on sale a cuple weeks ago. They seem to be doing reel good so far.


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## Phenom420 (Jun 24, 2009)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


No shit! I thought stealing was for the crack/meth/pill heads.

I def. feel ya on this subject


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## GypsyBush (Jun 27, 2009)

I'll say this about proper lighting...


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## esc420 (Jun 28, 2009)

will these 125 watts work by leaves are dry but turned down and there wrinkled and shrivled with a darker cast


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## born2killspam (Jun 28, 2009)

Nope, thats about what I'd expect from lights like that.. Ya know how in the FAQ it says that incandescents and halogens will not work?. Well the reason thats written there and so many other places on the site is because incandescents and halogens will not work.. Its analagous to trying to use your oven element as a reading light..


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## thedano (Jun 28, 2009)

my balcony only gets 6 hours of light a day for my babies , is that enough???what should i do???


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## born2killspam (Jun 28, 2009)

Is that 6hrs direct sunlight?? eg Balcony facing generally south (assuming you're in the northern hemisphere)?? If so, I've seen that work not too badly..


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## westcoastgreens (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude, Color rendering index is a way to measure the accurateness of the light spectrum. The closer the CRI is to 100 the more perfect the light spectrum is...so this is very important to a grow!


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## born2killspam (Jun 29, 2009)

Except CRI is about apparent color too.. Nothing acyual about it..


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## thedano (Jul 1, 2009)

anybody know if i can go sun light for 6 hrs , then cfls for another few daily??? my outside area only gets that much..will it be bad with both??


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## thedano (Jul 1, 2009)

it is direct sunlight for 6 hrs straight, lot of clouds lately tho..think a few extra hrs of clfs would be ideal??


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## cowboylogic (Jul 4, 2009)

thedano said:


> anybody know if i can go sun light for 6 hrs , then cfls for another few daily??? my outside area only gets that much..will it be bad with both??


 You bet you could dude. Just make sure the outside temps are close to the temps inside. Within like 10 degrees or so. If not the temp shock may do more harm than good. But if the temps are close, go for it! Your plants will love it!


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## GypsyBush (Jul 4, 2009)

Lighting is very important... for growing and for documenting it...

Here's proper lighting being used for both...


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## colasandkilts (Jul 5, 2009)

somebody knows their stuff. i'm impressed. can you talk about LED's. Some of these BS sellers claim that an LED costs $10.00 EACH. I've never seen one that costs over 2 bucks each. I understand cool temps and low wattage use, but do they work?


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## colasandkilts (Jul 5, 2009)

Obvious that u know your stuff-are u up on LED's and what's making them costs so much?


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## GypsyBush (Jul 5, 2009)

LEDs are great for camping trips Bro...

We need the power of the SUN... but we get by with high powered lighting...

LEDs DONOT fall into the category...

If you want good results use a good light...

No LEDs I know of will give you this...


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## newatthis12 (Jul 8, 2009)

Wow. Serious Pros. just started, so plesae dont make fun. Got 2x 75w agro-lites from the depot. I've already got them germinated and they already are growing their second leaves....im on 18/6, but are these lights good enough? I ahve them about a foot and a half up. and everything seems to be going well but the stems seem very weak and thin. Given, i did start with shit seeds to practice. Btw, im on a low budget keep it in mind .

Thanks in advance
-B


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## LEDude (Jul 8, 2009)

I beg to differ.


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## born2killspam (Jul 8, 2009)

Not sure how kosher that kind of stunt is round these parts dude..


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## GypsyBush (Jul 8, 2009)

LEDude said:


> I beg to differ.


beg to differ on what?


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## born2killspam (Jul 8, 2009)

I think he wants to phase out HID.. This year anyways, and on this forum he's trying to sell snow to an eskimo.. Maybe one day LED tech will reach a point where they supass HID, or maybe something entirely new will come up and revamp everything we use now and LED will have missed their boat in this hobby.. 
I gotta admut though, LED makes some kick ass emergency/flashlights.. I've got a couple dozen dollar store units pinned up with beefy batterys..


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## GypsyBush (Jul 8, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I think he wants to phase out HID.. This year anyways, and on this forum he's trying to sell snow to an eskimo.. Maybe one day LED tech will reach a point where they supass HID, or maybe something entirely new will come up and revamp everything we use now and LED will have missed their boat in this hobby..
> I gotta admut though, LED makes some kick ass emergency/flashlights.. I've got a couple dozen dollar store units pinned up with beefy batterys..


Yeah...

I'd like to see him differ...  

I love LEDs too... but not as a grow light... period...

I just wanted to hear his argument...

I almost think he was implying you can have buds like those shots I posted from an LED grow..


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## born2killspam (Jul 8, 2009)

His arguments are well plastered all over his retail site.. No need to corrupt these forums with that jive..


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## GypsyBush (Jul 8, 2009)

WerD!!!


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## born2killspam (Jul 8, 2009)

LED grow lights would be pretty sweet lighting for a little girl's bedroom though.. That pink cast is so adorable.. +rep to anybody growing with LED who decorate the grow room in a My Little Pony theme and post pics here..


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## DillWeed (Jul 13, 2009)

I don't know anything about LED lighting, but I do know that as of today I finally have two 1000 watt HPS lights inside of my 40 square foot grow tent which roughly equates to 7500 lumens per square foot. I hope this will be adequate enough to grow the two pounds of nugs I am attempting to grow. If any of you guys that know a lot about lighting want to take a look at my journal and give me a few notes I would appreciate it. The link is in my signature below. Thanks!


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## born2killspam (Jul 13, 2009)

Don't worry about setting yield goals, not all plant yield equally for quantity or quality.. You get what you get, and that may improve with experience, but that is a good start on a lighting setup..


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## carnage (Jul 13, 2009)

I bought genaric ecolux walmart plant flouresents labled as 40w, according to the graph posted this would be 5,000 lumens each. Is this correct? 
I'm running a pair of these shrouded in aluminum for 4 plants, probally not good enough, hua?


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## born2killspam (Jul 13, 2009)

Hopefully they cast fewer lumens than the typical 40W bulb..


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## section8 (Jul 15, 2009)

I was wandering about making an un used fridge for a grow box. Its your standard fridge nothing special. I think its perfect because its all sealed up. LIghting is allready installed, By the way can anyone recomend light settings for a space of this size. i think all i will have to do is fab a few holes.


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## born2killspam (Jul 15, 2009)

Ppl have tried, most failed.. Not the best starting box apparently.. As for lighting included, hahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahah cough hahahahahahahahahahahahaah..


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## dankonia (Jul 16, 2009)

*Which do you think gives off less heat, one 1000wt hps in a vertical, air cooled tube, or one 400wt hps+ one 400wt mh in a vertical air cooled tube? I'm running the two 400s and the heat is barely manageable (84-86 degrees F). Would i be better off with the 1000wt bulb? Buying a 600wt is not in my budget rite now.*


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## born2killspam (Jul 16, 2009)

Where are the ballasts?


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## dankonia (Jul 16, 2009)

the ballsts are remote, above the flowering chamber


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## born2killspam (Jul 16, 2009)

Then I'd say the call is too tough to make, and you'd need to take area dimensions into account to pick one based on actual efficiency..


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## dankonia (Jul 16, 2009)

my area is 3*5*5, with the cool tube centered in the middle. Im more concerned with the actual temperature the light gives off, not the color or lumens.There is a lot of useful info here, but no one talks about the actual temps these lights give off.( in fareinheight as opposed to Kelvins)


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## born2killspam (Jul 16, 2009)

I think you'll enjoy the buds more, and get better lighting overall with the two.. You are sacrificing some PAR photons per watt running smaller bulbs, and 800<1000, and 400W MH only pumps as many photons out as about 300W HPS too, but you also sacrifice with distance, and I really prefer buds grown with some MH in the mix.. If at all posible though, mount those horizontally.. Even the MH which is likely spec'd BU, you can do it without issue as long as that little nipple isn't at the bottom.. If it is, metal ions will get trapped in there when it cools and that will affect bulb output..
That is still enough light for that space.. I imagine most others will disagree, but I do like things to be even and mixed a WHOLE lot..


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## thefirstissoon (Jul 19, 2009)

just a quick question people?, when running lets say 6x 600w watt hps, you cant plug it straight into a standard 15amp plug from an extension because of the watts???, so if i buy a a 3200watt contactor (http://www.elementshydroponics.com/item/483) does this allow me to connect it to straight to the plug socket, i mean does it have a plug on it ??? fanks for ya tymmm plus rep for answer! the first is gne


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## GypsyBush (Jul 19, 2009)

thefirstissoon said:


> just a quick question people?, when running lets say 6x 600w watt hps, you cant plug it straight into a standard 15amp plug from an extension because of the watts???, so if i buy a a 3200watt contactor (http://www.elementshydroponics.com/item/483) does this allow me to connect it to straight to the plug socket, i mean does it have a plug on it ??? fanks for ya tymmm plus rep for answer! the first is gne



Search google for 50 am timer box 

Plug it into your range outlet rated for 50 amps...

They also make a 30 amp version for the drier outlet...

Then a simple timer can activate the relay and control all of your lights...

But you need 50 amp or 30 amp 220v...


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## thefirstissoon (Jul 19, 2009)

thanks for the reply gypsy bush, great help  plus rep+,


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## ceilingbeds (Jul 21, 2009)

anyone using a t5ho setup. I'm switching to that in a month or so. want to know how much light i will need to grow my plants.

SO if you could just tell me the watt's of your bulbs, how many bulbs, how big the fixture... and then how big your grow room is and how many plants are growing (successfully) under your lights. thanks.


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## hurtxxurt (Jul 23, 2009)

Hey, I'm running 4 100 watt CFL's in a small closet, with aluminum foil to reflect light. I currently have 10 plants that just sprouted today. Is this sufficient enough for about two plants? I plan to pass out some of the other plants.


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## born2killspam (Jul 24, 2009)

Are you talking real 100W cfl's or is that the replacement wattage? In any case, they are good for now atleast.. Don't put them too close..


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## BLAZNBASTURD420 (Jul 28, 2009)

i saw this on amazon do you think it would work i have a 24ich grow light and a 5000k cfl is that to much im a first timer


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## JJMoney420 (Jul 29, 2009)

where can i buy 85w and up daylight cfls in canada?


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## ivydupree (Jul 30, 2009)

i'm planning on growing two plants and i have a sodium light. planning on a sylvannia grolux. is this good? i also have an infrared bulb available


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## born2killspam (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm gonna say thats fine, but how many watts?


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## GypsyBush (Jul 30, 2009)

ivydupree said:


> i'm planning on growing two plants and i have a sodium light. planning on a sylvannia grolux. is this good? i also have an infrared bulb available





born2killspam said:


> I'm gonna say thats fine, but how many watts?


Yeah but stay away from the infra-red light...


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## ivydupree (Aug 1, 2009)

4oow
i also have a uvb providing light. when and how do i reckon i should use it?


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## JJMoney420 (Aug 2, 2009)

Ive been doing a lot of reading on the forums and i think im getting closer 2 what my set up will look like

Im rolling a 1mx1mx2m grow room with 
two 125watt 6400k cfls
four 85watt 6400k cfls
four 23watt 6400k cfls
four 23watt 2700k cfls 

im just wondering if this is enough light for 4 - 8 plants?


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## GypsyBush (Aug 2, 2009)

JJMoney420 said:


> Ive been doing a lot of reading on the forums and i think im getting closer 2 what my set up will look like
> 
> Im rolling a 1mx1mx2m grow room with
> two 125watt 6400k cfls
> ...



a 250w HPS will give you MORE, BETTER buds for each watts (dollars) you burn...

like this one...


http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=54182









or this kit if you want to go on cheap side...

http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=45719







Check out this thread so you can see what people are doing with 250w HPS...

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/128751-250w-hps-club-help-guide.html


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## GypsyBush (Aug 2, 2009)

Not saying you can;t do it with a CFL setup...

Just saying you can get MORE quantity of BETTER bud from an HPS...

I'd eve go as far as recommending a cool tube with the digi...

$240 bucks for the digi and the cooltube..

and assuming you are serious....

A filter/fan combo like this will eliminate odors and give you plenty of exhaust power...

http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=52531


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## GypsyBush (Aug 2, 2009)

But that's only if you want great looking buds like these from Tom's Journal...

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/148058-250-watt-mh-grow-pics-69.html#post2755719



tom__420 said:


> Well the church is looking pretty good guys. She is still very frosty and smells great.


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## jmannn (Aug 4, 2009)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


 
just dont steal them from my construction sites. take the light from housing developments instead.


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## JJMoney420 (Aug 4, 2009)

lol aight will do, ive seen some pretty impressive plants with limited cfls i want 2 try a high wattage setup and see what comes out of em


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## born2killspam (Aug 5, 2009)

I've seen nice plants in veg stage with mediocre cfl's, but once 12/12 comes, let the insufficiency shine..


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## JJMoney420 (Aug 5, 2009)

what should i use for flowering then?


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## purplesmoke123 (Aug 5, 2009)

i was thinking of growing i have all the stuff . my lights are spiral cfl's 2 32 wats its a very small grow space
but its only one female plant ea bulb is 3000 lumens is that enough


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## born2killspam (Aug 5, 2009)

Not for flowering.. Get 4 more of those bulbs, and some fan power..


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## purplesmoke123 (Aug 6, 2009)

im sure 3 32 watts should be fine for flowering this is nothing big .just a one plant experiment
and i have a small batery powered fan whitch is definetly good enough.
when i actualy start growing im gonna post pics and ask people about their opinion and if my plant looks good


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## born2killspam (Aug 6, 2009)

Hurry up and get it done then, while you still know everything..


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## ThomasJeffersonDidit (Aug 6, 2009)

> Hurry up and get it done then, while you still know everything..


LMAO. Quality


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## kindbudz (Aug 8, 2009)

is it ok to start your plants in 24 hours light with MH 400w light? or is it better to start the mat 20 hours? anyone please help?


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## born2killspam (Aug 8, 2009)

The 4-6 hours darkness won't slow progress at all..


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## jrk152 (Aug 13, 2009)

From what I've gathered going through these forums there's not much difference. Longer daytime = more photosynthesis, but some also say that a few hours of darkness helps with root growth. Also keeps electricity costs down if that can become an issue, and also cools the grow area during the 'night' period. Can be useful if your afternoon temperatures become too hot, you can use that period as your 'night' dark period.

I've currently got 3 seedlings under a 250w MH and some CFLs on a 24/0 cycle. I'm currently germing 4 more seeds so once those sprout and become seedlings I will get the whole bunch under a 20/4 schedule. Its light overkill I know but temperatures are being kept in check so I see no harm. Hope this helps.


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## swpk (Aug 18, 2009)

thanks for the info


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## Dahmer8afew (Aug 20, 2009)

Same great info here man! Thanks much!! Quick question for all you veteran smokers out there. Have any of you smoked any strains that caused you to seriously think you were getting Down's Syndrome? LOL


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## michealjackson (Aug 20, 2009)

I am not so knowledgeable about this matter. So i have to learn it. Thanks for the post.


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## FiendNZ (Aug 20, 2009)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


agreed! i work on construction sites all the time, sure i ogle the lights and ponder the wonder they can grow but i dont steal them its WRONG, if i catch some punk stealing stuff like this which keeps myself and my work mates safe at work, and ABLE to do our job for a living, my nail gun will meet you, and you wont like it. so BACK THE *%&! off. Use your head


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## stuntin (Aug 20, 2009)

ite homies. not gonna lie, didn't really read through the 50+ pages of postings. im pretty green when it comes to growing green. so my question is menards has a 44 inch grow light that has over 4000 kelvins. but all this light to kelvin to energy per foot in may if your moms <120 lbs garb reminds me too much of homework. if i bought a little cheapie just to grow a few plants even using a reflector on the light holding dealie and i bought 2 bulbs would that be enough lighting? i don't have hundreads of washingtons to dump into this at the moment. so again. i'm well aware this is prob not recommended amongst growing all stars. but will it work for a broke joker like myself?


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## born2killspam (Aug 20, 2009)

stuntin said:


> ite homies. not gonna lie, didn't really read through the 50+ pages of postings. im pretty green when it comes to growing green. so my question is menards has a 44 inch grow light that has over 4000 kelvins. but all this light to kelvin to energy per foot in may if your moms <120 lbs garb reminds me too much of homework. if i bought a little cheapie just to grow a few plants even using a reflector on the light holding dealie and i bought 2 bulbs would that be enough lighting? i don't have hundreads of washingtons to dump into this at the moment. so again. i'm well aware this is prob not recommended amongst growing all stars. but will it work for a broke joker like myself?








Had to be done..


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## mowgly (Aug 25, 2009)

matth82003 said:


> *Color rating*- Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum.
> 
> *How much light is needed?*
> The minimum amount of light required by marijuana plants is around 3000 lumens per square foot. However, it's not 100% accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and reflectivity of the grow box. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens/sqft, and as long as the plants do not burn, as much light can be used as you want.
> ...



simple facts interesting 
thanks


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## zek (Aug 26, 2009)

GREAT collection of lighting info! Thank you!


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## Dawekta (Aug 27, 2009)

http://www.homeharvest.com/whichgrowlightisrightforme.htm
check out this site. very good article on lighting.


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## bigblock7 (Aug 27, 2009)

gotta quick question. i have one 1000w hps on a mover and 24 plants in a 4x6 table. some people tell me that my girls will not produce as much if i have the light on a mover. but these girls are trimmed and pruned very nice and have great air circulation and plenty of space to grow. i also have mylar up on all the surrounding walls. so will i be good or should i get another light n have em both hang above the ends of the table? thanks man


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## born2killspam (Aug 27, 2009)

I say fuck them, sounds good.. I got benefit from diy movers on a 4x8 table..


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## meandmyplants (Aug 28, 2009)

ok ya'll i am not trying to get off the subject but i am about to paint my new grow room flat white.....i was just wondering how long should i let it "air out" before i place the plants in there? any help will be greatly appreciated. THANX


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## jam2764 (Aug 29, 2009)

I'm about to go buy a sunleaf 200 comet flourescent light fixture. Can anyone tell me about this light? Has anyone used it before?


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## born2killspam (Aug 29, 2009)

Why would you want to do that??


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## End420Prohibition (Aug 29, 2009)

Nice lighting posts, very informative.


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## sapphire (Aug 29, 2009)

nebors got a merc vapor lt about100ft from the girls how bad is that 4 the m & what to do?


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## born2killspam (Aug 29, 2009)

Not that bad.. I've seen alot of ppl grow near street lights.. Put up a barrier if possible, but the AA credo applies to that..


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## cruisinhigh23 (Sep 3, 2009)

thanks for tha tip


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## Straight up G (Sep 3, 2009)

Hi cud ne1 tell me when 2 give nutes, is it with lights on?

And should I put any fans on say 18/6 if the light is on that regime?

+Rep4reply


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## Green Cross (Sep 3, 2009)

I remember reading this stuff 25+ years ago, where's the lighting of the future they promised us. And my flying car!


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## doc111 (Sep 4, 2009)

Green Cross said:


> I remember reading this stuff 25+ years ago, where's the lighting of the future they promised us. And my flying car!


Yeah I remember reading about sulphur plasma lighting in the '80s. I'm with you man. Why aren't we on Mars yet?


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## born2killspam (Sep 4, 2009)

I have a physics degree so I'm more than aquainted with the split between physics and engineering/marketing.. You'd be drop-jawed if you saw some prototypes for stuff that came out of the labs even 25years ago.. After that, profitability, and mass production difficulties spoil the fun..
One of the biggest exceptions is the DVD.. Those things were raced through development, they dropped production costs/time by over 99% compared with video cassettes, and back when we could still get vhs, the dvd's still cost more..


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## wayne and andrea (Sep 4, 2009)

GLS 200 wat bulbs , will this enough to budd 3 ft AK47 females ?


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## born2killspam (Sep 4, 2009)

What is that, 68W of cfl?? If so then no, but 3-4 per plant might do ok..
If you can cool it, go HID.. All around cheaper to buy and run..


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## bosshogg (Sep 10, 2009)

if your gonna do it .1 1000 hps per 4-6 veg on a 24 hours of light(youll save a week or more) then 3 1000 on a 8 hours of light cycles doesnt screw with your bills(spiking) and you should pull 3/4 to 1 lb a plant on a northern light or similar. you can use a mh for veg but not nessesary although it does help. leave the floresents for your clones.trust me the yields are great and the plants get real sticky.two things to remember plenty of fresh air and cool drink, if on hydro try frozen 2 liters of water in your res. changing every 12 hours. i keep a dozen in the freezer and it helps from over heating roots and stems. hope this helps.


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## breastman (Sep 11, 2009)

just bought 4ft 4 bulb reflector. has 2 veg bulbs & 2 bloom bulbs. plants are 3wks. can i use all four. if not are 2 sufficient for growth & 2 for flowering? also have a single 4ft full spectrum bulb. is it good for both?


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## born2killspam (Sep 11, 2009)

Use all 4.. 
(And get more if you can, but think hid)


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## FreeLeaf (Sep 16, 2009)

After reading all of this thread (took forever!)I have a couple of questions.
I have a 20sqft flowering chamber for 6 plants (max in my county in Ca without running the risk of getting shackled) and I am planning on getting a 600w hps. I would really like to get a digital ballast w/dual voltage so I don't have to have an electrician come out and hook up a 220 outlet. I am looking at the Lumatek digital 120/240 http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/printItem.asp?Source=CK&ic=HLBADILT06360
Suggestions or comments on this ballast?

Also after reading this thread their wasn't a lot of info on the difference between the HPS bulbs available. Most peeps refered to using "cool tubes" If I get the cool tube do I need a paticular type of hood to accomidate it? 

It sounds like some of these hoods are already set up for venting to help reduce the heat and keep the room at the desirable temp. 
Any suggestions on the type of hood or what to look for?

Thanks in advance guys...


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## crashingwaves (Sep 16, 2009)

Found the answer with a google search that led to posts here. The site's search function came up empty for some reason.


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## riddleme (Sep 16, 2009)

So for the last several weeks I have been reading threads in this forum and it has been interesting 

I have only asked a few questions, which were mostly about cfl's as I was considering starting with them. But based on all my research I have changed my mind and will now be using a 250 watt hps (2.5 x 2.5 x 6ft) with therapy bulbs for suppliment (links coming) I made this choice after lots of reading.

I wanted to contribute something back to the forum so thought I would share some of my research and reasoning (hope some of the more experienced will chime in if I am wrong???

a small bit of background, I am an electronics tech mostly work on computers and monitors (35 yrs) I repair electronic ballast every day (back lighting for lcd monitors) so I understand these things and I love research 

I have read Jorges book and seemorebuds and the grow bible and I have watched several dvd's, from all of this and this forum I have seen that the basics are pretty much the same and my intent is to stay with the thread and talk about lights.

For all you noobs (like me) I found it amazing that lux and lumens are the same thing only measured differently

"LUX is an abbreviation for Lumens per square meter" basically lux is metric and lumens is "american" (per sq ft) very informative explanation here,
http://www.theledlight.com/lumens.html

now for the therapy bulb, I read that the CRI of the sun at noon at the equater is 100 at 5000k (kelvin) and it made sense to me that we are all trying to re-create the properties of the sun as best we can in an indoor grow so I started looking and discovered that the best cri rating for lights is 98 for flourescent tubes (best I found for cfl's was 96) 
not that it matters but by comparrison the cri for hps is 22 and for mh it is 70.
Before anyone "yells" at me I do understand that cri is more about how we "see" color but it helped me find these bulbs and in the end that is all that really matters. What I discovered is that there is a whole industry of of folks trying to re-create the sun for different reasons than growing "human theraputical treatment" and there is one company that has come real close in making these bulbs they have several but I have picked one in particular for its increased BLUE spectrum as I want multi spectrum in my cabinet  cri =98 kelvin = 6500k lumens = over 3000 price $12.99 each.
here is a link showing specteral differences/comparisons and it has UVB which I now believe is important based on all my reading.
http://www.truesun.com/proddetail.php?prod=Lumichrome_1XX_full_spectrum_light

here are other options from the same company (manufacture) 
http://www.budgetlighting.com/lumichrome_full_spectrum_lamps.html

While for me this going to be an experiment (combination of these with my 250 watt hps) I do believe for sure these will be great bulbs for clones and seedlings 

I look forward to the opinions of more experienced growers??? 
and hope it helps others that are starting out like me


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## matsuwa (Sep 17, 2009)

hey guys, so I read that for starting off your seedlings cfl's are perfect, but my question, is there a difference if we have different spectrums of cfl at the same time? Like one tube blue light and another red?


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## RemeberMe (Sep 17, 2009)

Freeleaf, if you only have room for one light make it a 1000 hps. 400 watts difference is about $32 difference when vegging a month, and only $21 when flowering. Flowering is the main amount of time this light will be used. You only veg for about 5 weeks and flower for 10 weeks. 

Like you know this is legal so no worries about anything and you're better off maximizing your yield with the bigger light. You've already spent a lot (no doubt) so why let the additional cost of about $100 stop you from maybe doubling your yield. Also, if you can keep them outdoors most of the time (once again, no worries except some fool stealing them). Hard to get used to how legal this is but the DEA said they will not prosecute anyone growing it for their own medical usage.


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## FreeLeaf (Sep 17, 2009)

RemeberMe said:


> Freeleaf, if you only have room for one light make it a 1000 hps. 400 watts difference is about $32 difference when vegging a month, and only $21 when flowering. Flowering is the main amount of time this light will be used. You only veg for about 5 weeks and flower for 10 weeks.
> 
> Like you know this is legal so no worries about anything and you're better off maximizing your yield with the bigger light. You've already spent a lot (no doubt) so why let the additional cost of about $100 stop you from maybe doubling your yield. Also, if you can keep them outdoors most of the time (once again, no worries except some fool stealing them). Hard to get used to how legal this is but the DEA said they will not prosecute anyone growing it for their own medical usage.


Thank You for the good advice RM. Since this is an enclosed closet, temp control will become a serious issue. Time to start looking into portable A/C units. 
Getting the correct bulb(cool tube) and the correct hood seem to be very important.


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## RemeberMe (Sep 17, 2009)

Go with a hood like a Cool Sun. It seals very well so you can run a vent and get out most of the heat from a 1000. I have a 4" turbine fan (under $90) sucking from the outside, through the hood, to outside using duct. This keeps all the smell inside the grow chamber. The temp will be dropping in CA anyway so you might need that light to keep the plants warm.

Also, the ballast doesn't matter that much. Go with a cheapy on Ebay or get a shop to match the price locally (if you're in San Jose then go through South Bay Hydroponics for matching all prices including internet).

cheap ballasts http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-System-Budget-Gro-1000-Watt-HPS-Ballast-1000W_W0QQitemZ320422847352QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9ab0a378&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUN-SYSTEM-10-HPS-1000-WATT-REMOTE-BALLAST-120V-240V_W0QQitemZ400055039984QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d252377f0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


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## RemeberMe (Sep 17, 2009)

Although I guess if it is only 6 plants depending on how much room they really take up (not just the room size) maybe a 600 is all you need. The upside with a 1000 is you can space them further apart, letting stronger light get to the sides and lower buds, probably greatly increasing the yield.

If you wonder why I am dwelling so much on this aspect it's because I am considering taking a 600 ballast back (don't think they will take the bulb) and getting a 1000 instead for my grow room. A 600 is very bright but the light tapers off quick when you are trying to reach a good 4' away. Sunlight is 10000 lumens, and if the square root principle of a hps light was true I would have plenty of light from the 600 at that distance (still over 10,000) but I just don't see that with the back of hand meter (wish I had a real light meter).


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## RemeberMe (Sep 17, 2009)

OK. Got some good info on how light resonds to distance. Found this "It decreases with the square of the distance from the source ... just like Newton's law of gravity. " here ( http://www.gummy-stuff.org/M-theory3.htm ). So even 3 feet from the source leaves only 8,888 (80,000-600w divided by 9 (3 squared)). And that's just 3 ft away! So I'll be going down and trading that 600 for the 1000.


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## matsuwa (Sep 17, 2009)

nice link remember me, took me a while to get it but it makes sence. Good input.


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## FreeLeaf (Sep 17, 2009)

You are right RM. Why not go with the 1000w. Now I need to vent the hood using an inline fan and ducting. I need to vent the room of oxygen and run it through a scrubber and another line comming in replinishing the co2 and for A/C. (I live in the valley and it gets way hot in the summer). I can run a duct from the main A/C in the house. Now all I need is 2 inline fans. 1 for the hood and one to vent the room. Sound about right?


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## RemeberMe (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm lucky that cooling is not a huge issue like you. But yeah, if you can get cooling from the house then two fans sounds about right (scrubber exhaust and light exhaust). You'll have to use a big fan on the scrubber to insure no air (smell) is getting pushed out unscrubbed by the AC vent. Maybe get the AC vent set up and blowing to help gauge how big the scrub fan needs to be.


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## RemeberMe (Sep 17, 2009)

Welll I thought I was going to get the cheap ballast and bulb but got upsold. The guy stated that cheap ballast I mentioned on ebay would put out far less lumens than a digital ballast (gallaxy 1000 hps/mh). But he did match the ebay shipped price of $350 so that helped a little. I certainly wish I would have gone with the 1000 right off. I ate a little on the swap but hopefully it will come back right away


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## FreeLeaf (Sep 18, 2009)

I think I am going with the Lumatek Digital 1000w ballast. 
http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/printItem.asp?Source=CK&ic=HLBADILT10120

$315.00 + tax and shipping. 

The same ballast through HTGS is $399.00 +?


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## RemeberMe (Sep 18, 2009)

Yes, I saw the lumatex. It's only $302 with free shipping on ebay here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120470491600&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching Use Bing and Paypal to get an additionall 8% or more off ebay Buy Now orders (sign up with Bing and Paypal required). When you get to the Bing page just enter for a search of like "injectors" that will give you the little gol coin$ percentage off offer. Click on that then change the search to what ever you want (in this case the lumatek). After Bing/paypal and ebay discounts the price is down to $267. I bought the Galaxy but still might return it for the cheap lumatek.


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## lonleysmoka (Sep 19, 2009)

FreeLeaf said:


> I think I am going with the Lumatek Digital 1000w ballast.
> http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/printItem.asp?Source=CK&ic=HLBADILT10120
> 
> $315.00 + tax and shipping.
> ...



Hey freeleaf I have heard that the lumatex digital ballast is not that great. I was in a nursery last week and the guy helping me said their customers were not really satisfied with the lumatex life. I guess he was implying that things were going out on the ballast or it was burning bulbs. Just thought id throw that out there. Take it or leave it


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## RemeberMe (Sep 20, 2009)

Decided to go with the Lumatek dimmable 1000. Costs the same as other 1000s and can switch down to 500 on those hot days a 1000 would cook my plants (no AC).


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## Imakehos (Sep 24, 2009)

very helpful. nice post.


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## Straight up G (Sep 27, 2009)

I have a 400w HPS, it is approaching winter in UK now do you think I should use 24/0 to ensure my plants (Auto's) stay warm enough through the winter I was originally goin with 18/6? *+Rep*.


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## born2killspam (Sep 27, 2009)

Don't let temps drop below about 15°C.. Beyond that how are we supposed to know what the temps in your growspace are..


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## GypsyBush (Sep 27, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Don't let temps drop below about 15°C.. Beyond that how are we supposed to know what the temps in your growspace are..



I am running pretty darn cool right now, trying to keep a bug problem down until harvest in a few weeks...

Would you be able to elaborate a little more on the detriments of growing at low temps...

I'll get things warm again, but right now I am trying to get to slow down/hibernate..

lights on is 65F/18C...

lights off is 50F/10C..


I would appreciate your comments...


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## my420bud (Sep 30, 2009)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


 Lol, what do they look like? im a carpenter for comercial companys, easy acces towards that


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## my420bud (Sep 30, 2009)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


hey chill out man.. its not a great atmosphere when everyones cussing... and your not no general contractor if you have a foreman  just wanted to say lol.. becasue im a foreman and i still have people above me


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## savag3kush (Sep 30, 2009)

Question:
So i am about 3 weeks into my flowering cycle and due to me moving at the end of the month to a different state, i only have 4 more weeks of flowering i can do. I'm worried my plant wont be ripe in time. is there any way to speed up flowering? I heard cutting back the light even more from 12/12 to 10light/14 dark would help is this true and by how much? From what i have seen in books and pictures the plants seem to be advancing fast almost look like they have been flowering for 4-5 weeks. any thoughts or suggestions? thanks!!


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## FreeLeaf (Oct 1, 2009)

Thanks for the heads up. I did some reading and it seemed like most of the problems were because of incorrect bulbs being used in them. hydro wholesale assured me they matched the correct bulbs to the 1000w dimable/dual voltage/switchable lumatek ballast and it's little sister the 400w ballast that arrived in the mail yesterday. I also got two yield master 2 hoods and some other goodies. Sweeeeeeet I will take some pics when I get it up and running.


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## Pwnasaur420 (Oct 3, 2009)

What if for the first 3 weeks of growth from seed, lighting sched. has been a couple days of full light then 6 hours dark couple days full light 4 hours dark for 3 weeks.. starting today ill make sure they stay on 18-6 daily but but just curious if i for sure botched my plants or not. i was just impressed with the growth i was getting.


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## born2killspam (Oct 3, 2009)

Won't intrinsically hurt them, under strong light though plants need a bit of dark on a daily basis to use the light most efficiently.. See photosynthesis builds like a fire each day, it doesn't switch on like a light, there are dark cycle processes (that also occur in light to a lesser extent).. Basically what I'm saying is that there are equilibria that need to be maintained if you want to get the most out of your watts..


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## Brick Top (Oct 3, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Won't intrinsically hurt them, under strong light though plants need a bit of dark on a daily basis to use the light most efficiently.. See photosynthesis builds like a fire each day, it doesn't switch on like a light, there are dark cycle processes (that also occur in light to a lesser extent).. Basically what I'm saying is that there are equilibria that need to be maintained if you want to get the most out of your watts..


 

During hours of light plants multitask, they perform all their various functions at once and to do that they allocate energy for each function. 

Even under full light plants can only take in so much energy so there is of course a limited amount to divide and what that means is all functions receive a small amount of energy to use. 
&#12288;
During hours of darkness plants run on stored energy, energy that was tapped off the energy taken in during the day while the plant was multitasking, and because of the limited amount of energy shuts down all but the most important most needed most vital functions, it stops multitasking. 

It throws all its stored energy into just a few vital functions and because of that they receive a greater amount of energy for their functions than they do during hours of light.
&#12288;
Growth and THC production both are part of the vital functions carried out at night and that receive an increased amount of stored energy over the amount of lower daylight hours amount of energy they receive. 
&#12288;
That means those functions are carried out more efficiently during hours of darkness than during hours of light. 
&#12288;
That is why I never believed in the 24/0 light cycle. Plants grow more efficiently at night than they do during the day so what is gained by taking away their nights?


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## End420Prohibition (Oct 3, 2009)

Anyone heard anything or tried the 1000W Sodium/Halide Dual Super Blue Arc Tube as opposed to the regular 1000W HPS? PM if you can also cause I am so many places on RIU that I don't know that I will remember to come back and check. That darn short term memory.


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## rod4314 (Oct 13, 2009)

I cant find anything about the 1000 watt Hortilux super blue light. The cost like 180 bucks. Are they worth it?


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## slk (Oct 14, 2009)

I have some 3' Big Bud with 1000 watt light on 18/6. I have nice groth at every node. Now I am going to flush and start them on Fox Farm Big Bloom Should I change the lighting to 12/12?


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## slk (Oct 15, 2009)

Rod Stick with tried and true


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## CannabisWWger (Oct 16, 2009)

slk said:


> I have some 3' Big Bud with 1000 watt light on 18/6. I have nice groth at every node. Now I am going to flush and start them on Fox Farm Big Bloom Should I change the lighting to 12/12?


*I myself start giving them 1/4 str. of the flowering nuts. with my veg nuts. a week or so before i start the 12/12 hours of light.*

*But that is just me, do whatever works best for you but if i was you i would for sure be giving then the boom nuts.*


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## bertoberto (Oct 17, 2009)

does anyone know how many fluorescent lumens would i need for an area of 6sqft, or what is the amount of wattage i should use?


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## bestbuds09 (Oct 18, 2009)

very good information on lights, its exactly what ive picked up from doing my own research, very well put, i give you thumbs up for this info


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## Johnnyprocrops (Oct 20, 2009)

How does growing under a red spectre light from start to crop effect the growth?


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## bestbuds09 (Oct 20, 2009)

Johnnyprocrops said:


> How does growing under a red spectre light from start to crop effect the growth?


it wont be as compact and bushy as it would be under a blue spectrum light, so its always good to start off with mh (blue) and flower with hps(orange redish) that way with the blue it will be compact and very bushy and then with red it will help the buds flower nice and if you can do both from start to finish it will be perfect.


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## Johnnyprocrops (Oct 20, 2009)

Ok thanks for the info.


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## OogilyGumballs (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey i was wondering what type of lights i should use for a space 25 sqft. and roughly how many i can fit under there


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## rusto (Oct 23, 2009)

ive made the mistake of growing with a single 50 watt bulb. my grow has been extremely slow. and i cant find another buld or fixture to substitute it at my local lowes/home depot. after nearly 3 months of growing i just reached the first signs of budding (small white hairs). and i have a smaller grow area (only room for one plant). if there is any suggestions you guys have i would really appreciate them. thanks.


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## crazyeyez (Oct 27, 2009)

What about UVA and UVB like the ones u put in reptilecages...do they do any good...what about daylight bulps and blacklight?


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## highaltitude (Oct 28, 2009)

Very nice and detailed article - but is there anything on LED out here. Does anyone grow with LED. Any recent research worth sharing?
-or personal success-stories?


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## themeatman (Oct 28, 2009)

Lights, Lights. Fucking more lights. Seems to be a endless topic. I know jack shit about them, I turn the switch on they work. Heres my question to the Flurescence growers? Should there be a mix?. Cool with warm.. If so whats the ratio? 
Hers my setup. Four foot by two feet area. Six young seedlings, in six inch pots. All pots will be lined up in a row. All advise is welcomed. Thanks PotHeads.


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## vonheimler (Oct 29, 2009)

HI yall. I am growing 4 buddha white dwarfs under a 400 watt mh/hps light system. I am wondering which bulb to use. I know mh is better for vegatative growth than hps but since they are autoflowering and flower quickly maybe I should just use the hps throughout. what do ya'll think?


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## Geneticfreak (Oct 29, 2009)

just change your bulb when you change your timer to flower.


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## candlegoat13 (Nov 7, 2009)

*This was very helpfull.Now ima go buy 2 cool spectrum fluorecent bulbs and 2 warm spectrum flourecent bulbs. apprx 2 feet length for my veg/clone room.*


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## boobearski (Nov 7, 2009)

candlegoat13 said:


> *This was very helpfull.Now ima go buy 2 cool spectrum fluorecent bulbs and 2 warm spectrum flourecent bulbs. apprx 2 feet length for my veg/clone room.*


why not use florescent lighting through out your grow as long as the lumens and color you want is right?I would like to try this...will this make my grow harder?


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## 400Whps (Nov 7, 2009)

afew questions to anyone intrested
i have 1 hitatchie15wt8 coolwhite and 1 general electrics 15wt8 warmwhite in a seedling box i made, will they be fine for they're first month in there?
would phillips 40wt12 plant&aqarium (f40t12P&A) be suffecient for flowering (just a couple autflowering lr's)?

i also have a 400w hps , im wondering if anyone can say thay have used an EYEhortilux enhanced spectrum super i was given one by a friend(it costs $88.90Ca) 
is there much of a diffrence than a philips 400w alto whitch costs about 24 bucks. i really hope the price diff. is worth it for the better one


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## candlegoat13 (Nov 7, 2009)

To be honest with you idk.ive heard from others and read that hps is the way to go for flowering.i guess its quicker.



boobearski said:


> why not use florescent lighting through out your grow as long as the lumens and color you want is right?I would like to try this...will this make my grow harder?


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## weedyweedy (Nov 8, 2009)

I'm planning to buy 250W MH bulb with 15000K, is that ok? Or is 15000 kelvin too much? I will only be using one 250W bulb for a small grow.


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## lighthouse (Nov 8, 2009)

Great Information! THANK YOU


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## stickynpurple (Nov 9, 2009)

ok i been using a 120 *Incandescent* that you say suck i got one plant and i dont wanna go all expensive on lights so whats size fluorescent do you suggest i get??


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## stickynpurple (Nov 9, 2009)

Sylvania 400-Watt High Pressure Sodium Specialty Bulb would this work??


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## children of tha ganja (Nov 10, 2009)

I have a 400 watt hortilux blue mh lamp which is supposed to have a fairly good spectrum when i switched to flowering i bought a fairly cheap hps would it be better to stay with the hortilux blue or switch to the cheaper hps


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## teenski (Nov 13, 2009)

i have a 250watt hps bulb in a cool tube and a fan pushing air threw. the air that comes out is 83f i can hold the cool tube and it doesn't burn at all but the temprature in my grow closet is at 90f

why is this? is it that damn diamond reflective sheeting


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## Green age (Nov 18, 2009)

This is my first question and prob a stupid one but... I know that the light times are supposed to immitate the sun cycle and the seasons, but when do you switch the light time? Is there and in between 24-0 and 12-12 and when should it be done? THANKS


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## patient 420 (Nov 18, 2009)

I went to lowes, and they had a large selection. Including 400w high pressuse sodium, Metal Halides, and even mercury vapor bulbs


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## unlvdating (Nov 18, 2009)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.



I just cant resist to be amaze with a writer who are truly exceptional for they articles that are really interesting to a blogger like me. I will not spend time reading an article when the topic is not important or has no the significant. You did a good job for always providing relevant and meaningful article.


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## UnnamedCitizen (Nov 19, 2009)

Prior to flowering, could i use floresent or indecient? spellin SUCKS!!! but thank ya, An i love the sight!!!!


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## DannyGreenEyes (Nov 28, 2009)

Hi everyone, I'm a newbe on my first grow with a different type of question.

I have two 400w HPSs for flower, one 400w MH for veg, and I need to buy some lighting for rooting clippings till they're strong enough for the 400w MH. I plan on using four 4' Fluoro tubes and have a couple of questions about fluoros for rooting purposes only.

Does the thickness of the tubes make any difference? (T-8, T-12, etc...)

Is there any advantage to mixing the Daylight (5,000k to 6,500k) and the Soft White (2,700k to 3,000k) or should I stick with one or the other?

And I have to make a comment about the guy looking to steal lights from construction sites. Dude, WTF is wrong with you? If you're even a half way decent grower (living in a state where MMJ is legal of course) then you should be able to bring in $100k per year on 16 plants in a 2 month rotation (8 plants per harvest) plus you'd have a half lb left over every 2 months for your own head. And that doesn't count the hash/hash oil you can make from what you throw away at harvest and extra clones that you might make. Why the hell would you need to steal lights? Not to mention the fact that you're helping to decrease demand by potentially causing the loss of work hours for those construction workers. Seriously, either invest a little cash into your setup when you harvest or get out of the game. Don't bring heat down on the rest of us.

OK, sorry about that but now that it's off my chest, if anyone who can help me with those 2 questions I'd really appreciate it.


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## skate4theherb (Nov 29, 2009)

LocoMonkey said:


> Does anyone know where you can buy these in the US?


you can buy them at the cannabis club if u live in cali and have ur 215 card.the cost abvout $60 for 16-18. or you can buy them online i like http://www.nirvana-shop.com they cost about $30-$40 for ten of them. But you can also buy from this web site seed that are Feminized the down side is its 5 seeds for $30-$40. they way i do it is to buy two packs of the ten and hope for the best. 
hope this helps


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## skate4theherb (Nov 29, 2009)

galwaysman said:


> how do i get my grow room warmed up? i have a 150 watt fluro light init!?? does not seem to be warm enugh?


are you using a fan?? if so turn is off. use your Thermometer and put right next to your plants and close your grow room up for an hour or so and check it to see if it get warm or not. trapping the light heat in should help.


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## skate4theherb (Nov 29, 2009)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? Go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. They are all over large site.


really now come on!! You should never steal shit!! How would you like it if some punk kid came a took all your plants! All you money hard work down the drain!! For what just so you could have a light,that you could have just saved for and no worrys. No bad karma on your back. God and we wounder why people look at people so smoke/grow herb as bad people. Its shit like this wow!!! Grow up!! If dont have a job get someone to loan you the money and pay them back.


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## skate4theherb (Nov 29, 2009)

UnnamedCitizen said:


> Prior to flowering, could i use floresent or indecient? spellin SUCKS!!! but thank ya, An i love the sight!!!!


yes you can you just have to use a few of them and put them close to the plants. put your hand under the light and if it ok for your hand its ok for your plants. just like when u warm up milk for a baby you test on your self first. treat your plants like your baby's. check out Roseman:https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/234626-rosemans-diy-bubbleponics-tutorial.html
post #5 talks about CFL.


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## biggun (Dec 5, 2009)

I suggest you save your money and buy your own, if you go and steal your light you will be punished and your weed will be full of seeds and weak. Don't lower yourself to that pecker heads level. Don't give the honest good fun of growing a bad name. Do the right thing!!!! And enjoy your crop guilt free. Happy growing


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## T905 (Dec 14, 2009)

how high off the tree is the light soppose to be?


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## zenza (Dec 15, 2009)

Check out the Sunmaster 600 and 400 watt cool deluxe 7200k Metal halide lamps, supposed to be the best vegging lamp available. Going to use one on my next grow and then switch to 600 watt HPS for flowering


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## Bonesmalones (Dec 17, 2009)

What about leds? Are they any good for growing through all stages of growth?


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## jessehendrix10 (Dec 17, 2009)

ok so i have a 400w metal halide in a 3x3x9ft that is 2 feet 6 inches away from plants. is this ok?


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## haloman420 (Dec 23, 2009)

jessehendrix10 said:


> ok so i have a 400w metal halide in a 3x3x9ft that is 2 feet 6 inches away from plants. is this ok?


If it dont burn your hand wont burn your plants.


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## blazermc (Dec 25, 2009)

*What wattage is there to use?* 
Fluorescents come in a wide range of watts any where from 4 to 214 watts that I have found.


the only fluorescent lights i can find are ranged between 8w-32w, thats in local shops around me, dont wanna order online will take to long to come,,, its my first time, just trying out for experimental use tbh, got 2 germinated seeds, gnna plant soon, just wondering on what kind off watt fluorescent i need? im guessing wouldnt need a high wattage as off little qauntity???


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## rookie 420 (Dec 25, 2009)

I used six 26 watt cfls for veging four plants, but about 2 weeks in I knew the lumen count was seriously lacking. It bought me a little time for my 150 watt mini florolux to come in though. The only thing now is that even with using the six cfls and the 150 watt I'm still lacking lumens in my flowering. Now I don't know whether to supplement some LEDs (90 watt tri-bands) or just buy a bigger HPS, I want a good all around spectrum while in flower. If you decide to veg with cfls get the 6500k (daylight), it is the best for veg but I would not recomend them alone for flower.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 29, 2009)

matth82003 said:


> *Color rating*- Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum.
> 
> *How much light is needed?*
> The minimum amount of light required by marijuana plants is around 3000 lumens per square foot. However, it's not 100% accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and reflectivity of the grow box. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens/sqft, and as long as the plants do not burn, as much light can be used as you want.
> ...


Sorry, but there is alot of half truths in this post. There's also alot of black and white erroneous statements, disregard for the hood design, etc. 

You CAN give a plant too much light, stop the myths folks. Also, I've used a HPS from start to finish with excellent results. The MH vs HPS for this and that is more forum hype.

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 29, 2009)

haloman420 said:


> If it dont burn your hand wont burn your plants.


It's not an issue of burning your plants, it's an issue of going past their light saturation point and bleaching out the chlorophyll. Without chlorophyll production and maintenance, you don't have photosynthesis.


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## G0tPiFF (Dec 30, 2009)

very informational and helpful. good shitt


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## Highgrow420 (Jan 1, 2010)

Bonesmalones said:


> What about leds? Are they any good for growing through all stages of growth?


 Yeah , I was wondering the same thing, what kinda lumen's can u expect from LED lighting i was looking into purchasing some, very expensive though.... ALSO any idea of the life expectancy of the damn thing. if its gonna be efficiant it better last a while.. lol


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## ~sin~city~ (Jan 9, 2010)

so i gatta question !... whats the best light to start seedlings under hps?cfl?mh?

thnks
-sinner


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## ~sin~city~ (Jan 9, 2010)

im about to have some really danks babies arrive and it would be sweet to here everyones opinion, because of course evryone has there prefrences,,,
but in vegas the city of heat ...would some one have the goodness in them to let a fellow grower know there opinions!

thnks again --sinner


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## DannyGreenEyes (Jan 10, 2010)

~sin~city~ said:


> so i gatta question !... whats the best light to start seedlings under hps?cfl?mh?
> 
> thnks
> -sinner


I can answer that. You want to use CFLs or Fluoro Tubes in the 5,000k to 6,500k color spectrum until they have a nice established root system and can handle the stronger HIDs.

I've also been told that it's good to mix in a little of the 2,700k to 3,000k color spectrum, but only a little. Most of the light should be 5,000k to 6,500k.

And if heat is a problem, you may want to use CFLs & Fluoro Tubes to grow until you can afford to deal with the heat with a cool tube or a/c cooled hood for your HIDs

Hope that helps.


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## born2killspam (Jan 11, 2010)

You can use any light for seedlings, the secret is that no matter what light you use, don't put it too close.. Seedlings hate both heat and intense light! Think about it, in nature seedlings lie underneath perenial growth, sheltered from light and forced to fight for it..


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## powerplant (Jan 11, 2010)

can someone please take a look at this site http://www.bustan.ca/product_detail.asp?menuID=4&SID=24&PID=790 and tell me if any of these light fixtures are good for growing, and if they are how many plants can i grow under them?. thanks. peace.


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## mex2425 (Jan 12, 2010)

How far awy can i have a 600watt hps away from my top buds?

Itried using the hand technique and i could hold it under there with a little heat but not real hot and my top burnt.

Thanks for any help


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## Gmanmakesdub (Jan 12, 2010)

Should I get a few fluoro tubes or the compact ones for seedlight growth?


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## Enigma (Jan 13, 2010)

~sin~city~ said:


> so i gatta question !... whats the best light to start seedlings under hps?cfl?mh?
> 
> thnks
> -sinner


Any fluorescent light will do. The light rating should be near 8000K. This is best for seedlings, clones, or anything in need of soft soft soft light. When they mature a bit bring the light rating to 6500K. 6500K will work all the way through, but to be specific...

After that, you can use anything you want.

"Red" light is used more in the plants grow than blue, in about a 2:1 ratio respectively.



E


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## bbighead (Jan 14, 2010)

nice info.


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## Enigma (Jan 14, 2010)

Thanks!

Spread the rep where it applies!


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## W33DZ (Jan 15, 2010)

i have a 250MH that is currently flowering 5 easyrider autoflowers.. i just recieved a 400 HPS and wanna put it on them... Will this be ok or will it cause stress on my lady friends


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## RockyMt.Cloner (Jan 15, 2010)

How long have they been in flower?


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## W33DZ (Jan 15, 2010)

well they are autoflower so they really only have a two weekish veg period. they have been growing for about 8 weeks


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## weedninja (Jan 20, 2010)

will the red light on the power strip effect plants in the flower room when the lights are out?


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## W33DZ (Jan 21, 2010)

the red light should not be a problem i have one on mine and it doesnt seems to make any dfference


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## jberry (Jan 24, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/294339-influence-colors-plants.html


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## Am I Norml (Feb 1, 2010)

OK Ive waded through the entire thread and i see you all debating the various wattage and the various lighting systems and Ive learned quite a bit about lighting spectrum of the different types of lighting fixtures and setups. but i would like to share something i have been doing for quite some time now .. i have A light ... just one single light .. well sort of a dual setup ... it is very versitile and it only cost me 56 dollars to manufacture and ill tell you first how i use it .. through the vegetative cycle i give the girls 2 months of 16/8 thich results in about a 2 foot tall plant and very bushy .. then i use the same light for the flowering cycle but i change the center bulb to a florescent black light bulb on a 12/12 schedule .. the plants finish out about 4 feet 6 inches tall and i don't really keep track becuse its all for my use but i get a pretty substancial yield off of 8 plants that usualy lasts me till my next batch is ready .. oh well on to the pix .. Hope you guys/gals like Super Skunk 

This is the setup 







Current grow in progress







Great flora penetration







Part of the last crop







Nice fat buds







so without having to have super high electric usage and without having to run hundreds of watts of power I'm still getting stoned as fuck and having a great time .. maybe some day ill go to the bigger better setups but i think id just rather build a few more fo these lights and see how far i can push it before i have to go high pressure or metal halide ..

Side Note : my camera is a older then god piece of shit 2 megapixel i bought back when 2 meg was awesome .. it now after being wet and beat up randomly puts weird date stamps and sometimes no date stamps on pix so ignore date it is not even close to actual time pix was taken


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## garagebox (Feb 2, 2010)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


Sounds like a great idea. what happens when you get caught with it at your house?


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## Am I Norml (Feb 2, 2010)

garagebox said:


> Sounds like a great idea. what happens when you get caught with it at your house?


then your ass goes to jail for being a rotten thief .. cant say i would feel sorry for them either .. we might be potheads people but there is no excuse for thievery  congratulations .. BLEW MY BUZZ DAMN-IT !!


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## burty5 (Feb 2, 2010)

im looking for advise really i am 44 years old i was really anti drug but smoked a joint bout a month ago love it now im wanting grow my own this what i want 

1: a cycle of about one ounce per month mabe two later on

2: im concerned about growing odour live in a 1st floor flat 

3: you to advise me 

I will tell you how i think im going to do it and you tell me im right or wrong 

1: a grow box i figure 2ft X 2ft X 5 ft four plants two to go to flower and two for cuttings to keep a cycle going
since i only growing here to size n cuttings figure just need a pump n drain feeder timed 3 times a day 24 hour floresant lighting and mabe up to 12 hours sodium light im going use reptile heat mat under the container for the roots and fish tank heater and pump in the feeder resovoir for warm airiated feeding 

i will post again when we have exausted this subject and im sure i gonna get my growing room adiquate for personal use for myself 
any advise will be appreciated thankyou burty5


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## DannyGreenEyes (Feb 3, 2010)

Hi everyone. I'm sort of an advanced newbie on my first grow. I have 7 moms that are between 25" & 32" and I'm about to put them into flower. I also treated the roots with Mycorrhiza so they're larger than normal and the girls are eating a lot more than normal.

I have three 400w HIDs, 2 HPSs & 1MH. Due to heat I can usually only run 2 at a time & I was planning on using the 2 HPSs for flower but I was just told that if I don't increase the lights I'll end up with about a pound between all 7 plants. Needless to say this wouldn't make me happy. I was counting on at least a half a lb per plant and I was hoping for a lb per plant.

So now I'm thinking of getting four 1,000w HPSs with cool tubes & two 500 cfm fans and I have a few questions for the experts.

1. If you had seven plants between 5' & 8', used four 1,000w HPSs to flower them, and were about to harvest. (ball park) What might you expect to get as far as dried & cured yeild?

2. Do you think four 1,000w HPSs and maybe a few 300w CFLs for under the canopy be ideal for 7 plants of that size, or do you think I should get more 1,000w bulbs?

3. Are HPSs still the best bulbs to use for flower? (I heard somewhere about a new type of HPS, possibly a one made with ceramics, that was better than the average HPS)

+rep for any & all help.


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## Am I Norml (Feb 3, 2010)

DannyGreenEyes said:


> Hi everyone. I'm sort of an advanced newbie on my first grow. I have 7 moms that are between 25" & 32" and I'm about to put them into flower. I also treated the roots with Mycorrhiza so they're larger than normal and the girls are eating a lot more than normal.
> 
> I have three 400w HIDs, 2 HPSs & 1MH. Due to heat I can usually only run 2 at a time & I was planning on using the 2 HPSs for flower but I was just told that if I don't increase the lights I'll end up with about a pound between all 7 plants. Needless to say this wouldn't make me happy. I was counting on at least a half a lb per plant and I was hoping for a lb per plant.
> 
> ...


I personally think your lighting is overkill and i run CFL's for my whole grow  .. no wattage problems no high bills .. and smoke lots of bomb ass dope  .. Dude i understand your probably running that grow for distribution but you dont have to burn down your house to get killer weed .. just listen to your girls.. they will tell you what they need .. i have 8 plants under 5600k of CFL lights and they are going crazy .. Marijuana grow rooms should receive 1000-3000 lumen per square foot. Successful gardens usually are lit at around 2,000 lumen per square foot. .. here ill make it a little easier on you ill toss in a chart i go by it has helped me so i hope it will help you 

4'FL (Cool White-40W) 2,960 1-2
8'FL (Cool White-75W) 5,800 2-4
MH 175W 14,000 5-10
MH 400W 40,000 12-20
HPS 70W 7,600 3-6
HPS 150W 16,000 6-11
HPS 400W 50,000 15-30

there ya go .. hope i helped out and didn't have to make you listen to too much dumbshit considering I'm STONED as fuck right now ...lmfaoooooooooooooo .. Peace Bro  gotta go


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## DannyGreenEyes (Feb 3, 2010)

Am I Norml said:


> I personally think your lighting is overkill and i run CFL's for my whole grow  .. no wattage problems no high bills .. and smoke lots of bomb ass dope  .. Dude i understand your probably running that grow for distribution but you dont have to burn down your house to get killer weed .. just listen to your girls.. they will tell you what they need .. i have 8 plants under 5600k of CFL lights and they are going crazy .. Marijuana grow rooms should receive 1000-3000 lumen per square foot. Successful gardens usually are lit at around 2,000 lumen per square foot. .. here ill make it a little easier on you ill toss in a chart i go by it has helped me so i hope it will help you
> 
> 4'FL (Cool White-40W) 2,960 1-2
> 8'FL (Cool White-75W) 5,800 2-4
> ...


Thanks for the help. +rep

They make up an area of about 3' x 6', they're in 10 gallon containers. And they're bushy as hell, I FIMed each of them.

By the chart you gave, two 400w HPSs would be more than enough. But I've been told by many that more light = more yeild until the clorophyl starts getting bleached out of the leaves.

Also, because of the root treatments, these girls are eating up a storm. They each sucked 5 to 6 gallons of FF Happy Frog dry in 2 weeks. I'm interested in seeing what they do when they get more light & can increase their photosynthesis.

My main concern is that the four 1,000w bulbs may not be enough even with added 300w CFLs for under the canopy.

Also, it's very crowded in there. The plants are on top of one another. I don't know this for sure, but I'd think that would increase the light requirement.


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## jberry (Feb 3, 2010)

if it were me i would run 2 1000w super hps in a 3x6... but if it were me i wouldnt try to grow 8' plants indoors either.

anyhow, i dont see how you could do more than 2 1000 watt air cooled lights in such a small area (i dont think you have room for 4 reflectors and ducting in a 3x6), so i would go for 2 and 1 nice fan to cool them. and if needed, maybe some low watt/low heat side lighting as you mentioned.

i would concider the chart above as a very bare minimum... a 1000w hps for every 4x4 is usually a pretty good method for maximum results.... you can use slightly more light then that, but at some point you will run into heat issues, hot spots, leaf bleaching, ect... You can also get away with less light, it is possible to grow and flower a 10x10 canopy with one single 1000w light but quality and density will drop quite a bit and i have found that most people that have tried several lighting methods (including myself) use the 1000w per 4x4 method and in my opinion is kinda the standard set up.


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## Am I Norml (Feb 4, 2010)

Thanks for the + rep danny i'm always happy when i can help a fellow grower in some way


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## maxpesh (Feb 4, 2010)

I have looked into these Nlite bulbs and I have to say that they sound pretty damn good


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## Marijuato (Feb 4, 2010)

Hey there, new to growing and i have one plant under 2 4' 32-watt fluorescents, my question is if I could technically grow on one bulb instead of two since it is a single plant.


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## Northernlights#5xHaze (Feb 4, 2010)

Plants do not recognize lumens. What they do recognize is par.


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## Northernlights#5xHaze (Feb 4, 2010)

you guys are all screwed up. REMEMBER reverse square law a 1000w light is a 1000w at one foot away so a 400w light 6" away its double that and if its spinning you can get it 2" away without burning. You guys can do the math.....


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## DannyGreenEyes (Feb 6, 2010)

jberry said:


> if it were me i would run 2 1000w super hps in a 3x6... but if it were me i wouldnt try to grow 8' plants indoors either.
> 
> anyhow, i dont see how you could do more than 2 1000 watt air cooled lights in such a small area (i dont think you have room for 4 reflectors and ducting in a 3x6), so i would go for 2 and 1 nice fan to cool them. and if needed, maybe some low watt/low heat side lighting as you mentioned.
> 
> i would concider the chart above as a very bare minimum... a 1000w hps for every 4x4 is usually a pretty good method for maximum results.... you can use slightly more light then that, but at some point you will run into heat issues, hot spots, leaf bleaching, ect... You can also get away with less light, it is possible to grow and flower a 10x10 canopy with one single 1000w light but quality and density will drop quite a bit and i have found that most people that have tried several lighting methods (including myself) use the 1000w per 4x4 method and in my opinion is kinda the standard set up.


Thanks for the help. +rep

Heat is the one thing that I'm not sure of. The plants don't take up the whole closet. There's a portable A/C, a big standing fan, a small floor fan, and some shelving in there. Plus a small unused corner. The closet itself is 7' x 4' 8". And I was thinking of trying to set it up in the bedroom because I'm getting tired of pulling them out every time I want to clean or water them.

The plan for the heat if the flower room stayed in the closet was to make cool tubes out of hurricane glass. There's a thread on home made cool tubes. Put the 4 lights in two rows of two and link the lights in the rows together with a little flex duct and use a 500 cfm fan at the beginning of each row. After the 2nd light I'd use one of those Y fittings to bring the 2 lines together and out the door. I'm not sure how much heat those lights will still put off, but I have the portable A/C that can help. Without it, just two 400w lights with no cool tubes would have the temp in the 90s or low 100s without the A/C. So it can drop the temp 20 to 30 degrees in that little room.

If I set it up in the bedroom I'll also have a wall unit a/c to help with the heat, but I wouldn't have the portable A/C because it would have to stay in the closet so I can use it as a veg room. Basically the same plan as with the closet, but again I don't know how much heat the lights will put off with the cool tubes or how much using stronger fans might help. (I've seen them as strong as 1,000 cfm).

So if you had 7 sizeable plants and were starting to worry that you might have to use light LST to keep some of them from hitting the 8' ceiling or getting too close to the lights by the time you harvest, and you were going to use two 1,000w HPSs to do your flowering, how much would you expect to yeild (just ball park)?


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## Am I Norml (Feb 6, 2010)

Marijuato said:


> Hey there, new to growing and i have one plant under 2 4' 32-watt fluorescents, my question is if I could technically grow on one bulb instead of two since it is a single plant.


what i would do personally is find a way to put one up high and put one down low unless your going to lollipop it then i would go with both right over the top of the plant as close as you could get them


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## Am I Norml (Feb 6, 2010)

just keep it right off the top of the plants and they get nice amounts of light with decent penatration







and as for the growing 8 plants indoors .. count em 







i always start clones in my closet before i transplant them for the final push but due to a new way of doing things was tought to me i will now be ...after this grow .. no longer vegging my babies .. they will all go strait to SOG


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## quackdaddy (Feb 10, 2010)

Any info regarding LEDS?


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## Am I Norml (Feb 10, 2010)

quackdaddy said:


> Any info regarding LEDS?


i personally think LED's are a waste of money
my cfl's work a hell of alot better then the UFO i bought so chalk one up for trying the gimmick


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## [email protected] (Feb 11, 2010)

soo. i decided to look into my grow dresser just to check the temp and humidity and saw that my cfls are blinking lol. kinda like one of those electicity things where you touch them and the static or whatever goes to ur finger cuz my my ionic filter is blowing directly on them. weird...


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## [email protected] (Feb 11, 2010)

oh yea... i didnt mention that the lights are off lol


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## 2012junkie (Feb 11, 2010)

My question is for HPS bulbs. Is a 150w hps "grow" bulb any different than a 150w hps bulb you buy at Home Depot? Will it produce the same results? What exactly is the difference between the two if any?


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## smokedog1 (Feb 12, 2010)

hi dudes, i have 11 northern lights just had them in water for 48 hrs then planted them in all mix soil. I have a grow tent, have them sitting on heat mat, and pots are wrapped with clear film for moisture, they are under a 30watt flourecent, is this light okay rite trough vegging period, and is everything else done rite so far????


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## sourdieselismyonlyfriend (Feb 12, 2010)

i have a 1000 watt mh light system that i bought off of my buddy for about 150 bucks with an extra bulb. its a Sunmaster Warm Deluxe 1000 watt mh bulb. it says its meant for fowering light spectrum is 3200 kelvins. do you think this would be sufficient for flowering?


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## Am I Norml (Feb 13, 2010)

smokedog1 said:


> hi dudes, i have 11 northern lights just had them in water for 48 hrs then planted them in all mix soil. I have a grow tent, have them sitting on heat mat, and pots are wrapped with clear film for moisture, they are under a 30watt flourecent, is this light okay rite trough vegging period, and is everything else done rite so far????



11 plants ...one 30 watt bulb for all of them ... and your gonna try to veg them all on it ?? .... that would be ok for seedlings or even a batch of clones but to veg 11 plants on that one little bulb...in a nutshell ... Not a Chance ... your gonna want to get ALOT more cfl's last one 26 watt(100 watt) over top super close to the leaves on each plant and one underneath.. the one underneath can be small tho ..maybe a 13 watt(60 watt) on the bottom then you will get killer penetration on your plants


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## smokedog1 (Feb 14, 2010)

thanks for rply.. well i wasnt sure wat to do next, how many more lights will i need and wat colurs if it is important. yes they are only seedling at the minute. and wat do you mean by a light underneath?? when do i start vegging?? when true leaves apear?? i also have 400watt hps but i am not going to use this untill flowering.. is everything else sound ok??


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## Am I Norml (Feb 14, 2010)

smokedog1 said:


> thanks for rply.. well i wasnt sure wat to do next, how many more lights will i need and wat colurs if it is important. yes they are only seedling at the minute. and wat do you mean by a light underneath?? when do i start vegging?? when true leaves apear?? i also have 400watt hps but i am not going to use this untill flowering.. is everything else sound ok??



since you have 11 plants i would go with shop lights instead of individual cfl's get 3 or 4... 4 foot shop lights and hang them over them then have them right down on top of the plants like 2 inches above them

if you go with the banks of lights you wont have to do any under-lighting ... i sugest doing a search and read everything on cfl growing you can get off this site


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## boseke420 (Feb 15, 2010)

if you dont want to keep replacing so much money on cfls bro shop lights with aquarium or reptile lights from a pet store there worth it in the long run bro trust me


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## Am I Norml (Feb 15, 2010)

boseke420 said:


> if you dont want to keep replacing so much money on cfls bro shop lights with aquarium or reptile lights from a pet store there worth it in the long run bro trust me


glad to see another one getting with the program .. shop lights are awesome then i have a single 100 watt equivalent cfl mounted in the center of each to boost the lumen rating and penetration ...makes em grow like *weeds*


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## purplebibble (Feb 15, 2010)

useful info! thanks!


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## [email protected] (Feb 18, 2010)

Oh! Thanks.... for good lighting product information.....

Dear all,
Here we have also represents some varieties of perfect and very popular zippo lighters for lighting and more guys also using zippo lighters very easily on affordable prices...


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## Am I Norml (Feb 18, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Oh! Thanks.... for good lighting product information.....
> 
> Dear all,
> Here we have also represents some varieties of perfect and very popular zippo lighters for lighting and more guys also using zippo lighters very easily on affordable prices...



zippo lighters ?? dude that is some good shit aint it


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## sfl420 (Feb 20, 2010)

I have a question regarding lighting. My question is what cycle should I start plants on if they are going to be started inside and moved outside? I wanted to give them about a 6 week headstart inside to hopefully help the outdoor survival. If I have them at 18/6 and then put them outside where it 14/10, is that going to confuse the plants into trying to flower or is the 12 hour mark pretty much where it has to be for this? Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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## Am I Norml (Feb 20, 2010)

sfl420 said:


> I have a question regarding lighting. My question is what cycle should I start plants on if they are going to be started inside and moved outside? I wanted to give them about a 6 week headstart inside to hopefully help the outdoor survival. If I have them at 18/6 and then put them outside where it 14/10, is that going to confuse the plants into trying to flower or is the 12 hour mark pretty much where it has to be for this? Any input would be greatly appreciated.


if you start them on 18/6 it will get them vegging heavily then when you take them outside it will slow down some but as long as its not hitting the 12/12 mark you wont have to worry about flowering


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## sfl420 (Feb 20, 2010)

Am I Norml said:


> if you start them on 18/6 it will get them vegging heavily then when you take them outside it will slow down some but as long as its not hitting the 12/12 mark you wont have to worry about flowering


 
awesome! thank you


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## Am I Norml (Feb 21, 2010)

sfl420 said:


> awesome! thank you


its all good


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## 7strains2smoke (Feb 24, 2010)

wish this was around when i first started, i learned most of it myself- the hard way .


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## husqvarna (Feb 25, 2010)

does any1 know if i should drop the hours for budding for auto ak47 x lowrider2 iv got it on 18hours at the mo.


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## Am I Norml (Feb 25, 2010)

husqvarna said:


> does any1 know if i should drop the hours for budding for auto ak47 x lowrider2 iv got it on 18hours at the mo.


for a auto plant you don't have to change hours to make it bud it just does it when it becomes mature...patience is a virtue lol


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## avoidingindica (Feb 28, 2010)

my balcony has 4ft (1 meter) tall windows for almost 180 degrees. it recieves about 6-7 hours of direct sunlight a day and lots indirect.
would it be better to use the balcony or cfls in a nice sized closet???

i dont know how many lumens the sun puts out compares with the cfls if its only 6-7 hours of direct light a day


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## Am I Norml (Feb 28, 2010)

avoidingindica said:


> my balcony has 4ft (1 meter) tall windows for almost 180 degrees. it recieves about 6-7 hours of direct sunlight a day and lots indirect.
> would it be better to use the balcony or cfls in a nice sized closet???
> 
> i dont know how many lumens the sun puts out compares with the cfls if its only 6-7 hours of direct light a day


if it gets below 14 hours of daylight a day it will be flowering literally its whole life ... your choice..


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## t0keordie420 (Feb 28, 2010)

i recently saw some cfl's out there that claim to be specially for plant and aquarium growth...theyre supposed to have a spectrum tht emmits more phosphors, reds and blues they claim theese lights make a "notable difference" as they call it and will boost flowering....Does anybody have any information to support this?? do they really work?? or is it a bunch of BS?


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## Cheechburner (Mar 6, 2010)

help me out people with knowledge on lighting https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/309235-cfl-fixtures-grow-box.html


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## DieselFumes87 (Mar 13, 2010)

I have a 600w hps set up with an air cooled hood, just bought a 600w MH conversion bulb that i'll use from seed to flower. Should get the job done.


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## TreeOfLiberty (Mar 18, 2010)

*This is what irritates me a lot, you always see people talking about the color of light as in KELVINS, as if its what determines the outcome of getting HUGE BUDS, it doesn't !

It's the LUMENS !!! increase the LUMENS and the buds will come when you start 12/12 cycle.

I learned this was THE MOST IMPORTANT thing as a newbie grower when I started growing in 2007. Whether its with an HPS, MH , or Fluoros , add up the LUMENS and the buds will come. I see too many people focus on KELVINS on just about every freakin grow site on the web.

And I have vegged with both 6400 Kelvin and 3400 Kelvin T 12 (40 watt ) tube fluorescent lights, plants always grew faster and bigger with MORE lights ,which resulted in MORE LUMENS.

Kelvin is just a color spectrum of the light, the higher the Kelvin number is supposed to be better for green growth and the lower the Kelvin number is supposed to be better for flowering, but the short and simple answer that matters the most is LUMENS. More LUMENS equals more bud.

A lot of newbies are mislead thinking Kelvins is what matters the most, it bothers me to see them mislead. 
*


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## josh b (Mar 18, 2010)

nice little rerad,i learn a new thing everyday.


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## grow man (Mar 18, 2010)

I'm new here and I'm trying to find out how much watts I can run in a 2½ bedroom house with no flags..12/12 per onley..thanks.....


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## Am I Norml (Mar 19, 2010)

TreeOfLiberty said:


> *This is what irritates me a lot, you always see people talking about the color of light as in KELVINS, as if its what determines the outcome of getting HUGE BUDS, it doesn't !
> 
> It's the LUMENS !!! increase the LUMENS and the buds will come when you start 12/12 cycle.
> 
> ...


 amen brotha....the *K* of the bulb is just the spectrum....the lumen rating is the *HORSEPOWER* of the bulb ... the more horsepower the bigger the bud ...just get it in the right spectrum with the most horsepower you can aford and your in like flin


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## lucid1 (Mar 19, 2010)

grow man said:


> I'm new here and I'm trying to find out how much watts I can run in a 2½ bedroom house with no flags..12/12 per onley..thanks.....


A nice plasma TV uses about as much as a 400 watt light. A 1500 watt space heater uses as much as one and a half 1000 watt lights. Bottom line is as a personal grower that should be no red flags due to electrical consumption...


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## gloombird (Mar 19, 2010)

I noticed how LED lighting was left off of the general overview of lightin systems. They should be between flourescent and incandescent, as they are mostly useless. I've had some success, but mostly light starved plants. They seem ok in the late stages of reproductive growth. They might be the future, but the future is not now. Stick with HPS etc...


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## Kasper8124 (Mar 23, 2010)

Im using 2 250 HPS lights as of now. one light is starting to get a black ring around the base of the light. how long do these bulbs last usually ?


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## Grim187 (Mar 23, 2010)

Kasper8124 said:


> Im using 2 250 HPS lights as of now. one light is starting to get a black ring around the base of the light. how long do these bulbs last usually ?


iirc you should replace them every 6 months.



i dident see any mention of leds in the first post so i thought i would show you guys my flowering light.

its a 50watt 100 led board, its produces 121 lumen's per watt @ a 40° angle.

i still haven't hung it in my flowering room yet (waiting on vegetative growth), i have 2 x 25watt 50 led boards in my vegetative room (both rooms are 4' x 4').

the ones i built do require a ac to dc power supply but you can make them to run off of just ac power like this one.

not to mention most leds have a 150,000 hr life!

so for me atleast this was the perfect lighting setup for me.

overall budget for the lights i build was around $120 + about 3 days of work.


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## Budlong (Mar 27, 2010)

I have not been on rollitup since '07, but I am doing so now to inform anyone reading this. Do not waste your money on an LED system. I just finished a first grow with a 120 Watt tri-band, state of the art, LED grow light, purchased from a reputable company. It really is well made and I'm sure will last forever, but don't bother. I spent $300 on it, and changed out my 400W HPS in the middle of veg. At first everything looked great. The leaves were beutiful green during the end of veg. When I went to flower, the buds started OK and looked great, but then nothing. No Yeild. Zippo, Nada... Maybe 1 oz compared to 5 or 6oz with HPS in my particluar set-up Please take my advise. I am now changing back to my 400W HPS. I really wanted to believe in this technology for the reasons well advertized, i.e., less power, cooler, no identifiable radiation signature... Based on what I learned I would use only for veg, but I'm not convinced it would be any better than cfls.


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## tabsman (Mar 30, 2010)

so i use 1x 1000 watt for flowering and 1x 1000 watt for veg now how many plants are able to grow under each


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## afrawfraw (Mar 30, 2010)

TreeOfLiberty said:


> *This is what irritates me a lot, you always see people talking about the color of light as in KELVINS, as if its what determines the outcome of getting HUGE BUDS, it doesn't !
> 
> It's the LUMENS !!! increase the LUMENS and the buds will come when you start 12/12 cycle.
> 
> ...


YES! And to take it a step further, all light sources have lumen bleed at different rates. (Also reffered to as "Penetration".)

A 432w new wave T5 4-8 produces about 40,000 lumen's.
Now let's suppose we put a MH lamp at the same elevation putting out 40,000 lumens.

At 24" away from the bulbs surface (After all, the lumen's rating is from the bulb surface) the MH will have more lumens than the T5. But the MH will run hotter. This is what people need to understand.


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## afrawfraw (Mar 30, 2010)

tabsman said:


> so i use 1x 1000 watt for flowering and 1x 1000 watt for veg now how many plants are able to grow under each


It's up to you. Personally I would Veg 4 plants under the MH for 2 months, then put 2 plants at a time under the HPS for flowering. Or, you could veg 8 plants for a month, then 4 at a time for flowering because they're smaller. Make sense?


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## tabsman (Mar 30, 2010)

i have a 6 ft wx6 ft lx7 FT h flower room and have 18 in there and the same for veg and usually get 2pnds but only the tops get big and was just wondering why i cant get bigger plants so i guess i have too many in there?


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## afrawfraw (Mar 30, 2010)

tabsman said:


> i have a 6 ft wx6 ft lx7 FT h flower room and have 18 in there and the same for veg and usually get 2pnds but only the tops get big and was just wondering why i cant get bigger plants so i guess i have too many in there?


Check out my journal to see proper spacing. And even these guys are crowded, but I don't have a lot of room.


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## Meethrip (Mar 31, 2010)

Hey, ummm, hoping someone could give me some advice here.

Going to be using a 4ft high, 2ft wide and 2ft long grow box, one plant.

Was thinking of using a 50 watt High pressure sodium lamp, you think that 50 watt hps will be enough for one plant in that size room?

Taking any suggestions.

Thanks, 

Meeth


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## grow man (Apr 1, 2010)

can somone help me I have a 600 watt hps on seedlings how far dose it need to b...thanks


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## grow man (Apr 1, 2010)

how far dose a 600 watt hps need to b away from seedlings.....


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## afrawfraw (Apr 1, 2010)

18" to 24" until they are 5-10 cm. But a MH or T5 whites would be better. Orange lights are good for flowering, not veg...


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## grow man (Apr 2, 2010)

will the hps work good?


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## afrawfraw (Apr 3, 2010)

afrawfraw said:


> 18" to 24" until they are 5-10 cm. But a MH or T5 whites would be better. Orange lights are good for flowering, not veg...





grow man said:


> will the hps work good?


I take it you don't have a source of white light. HPS will grow vegging weeds, but white is more productive...

Maybe a couple 65w CFL's off to the side?

Make sure they are 6500K...

And when you get cash, invest in a T5 light. They work great! (See signature)


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## TLE (Apr 4, 2010)

FlipAPenny said:


> Ha Ha!!! I know exactly what you are saying there.


can't we all just get along ??


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## jimmyjack88 (Apr 8, 2010)

I am 50years old got my card and have had such fun growing. I am in flowering stage the first 3 days. My plants look like text school short but wide. I am using now T5 badboy 4X4 vertical, One HPS 250 watts up high like 2 feet,
and one UFO 90 watt LED (blue and red ) My plants look like mint leaves and are all togather in 3 large ceramic pots. Again I am stupid about growing but bought Nirvana seeds AK 38, El Dorado, and a couple more.I over watered but got over it. I started my plants with an aerogrower(like on TV!) my plants are just getting into the flowering stage. They look so healthy but got mystery seeds from Nirvana. I planted them. They grew. When can I tell if I have only females? I see no balls?


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## jimsremoval (Apr 9, 2010)

can some of you guys help me. this is my first grow, and i could use some advice from some of u riu veterans with the growing expeirience.. here is my grow journal. remember this is my first grow so dnt be to harsh. im growing using a hydro kit. i also have about twenty soil plants too.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/320026-lowrider-white-widow-bag-seed.html


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## Brick Top (Apr 27, 2010)

jimmyjack88 said:


> I am 50years old got my card and have had such fun growing. I am in flowering stage the first 3 days. My plants look like text school short but wide. I am using now T5 badboy 4X4 vertical, One HPS 250 watts up high like 2 feet,
> and one UFO 90 watt LED (blue and red ) My plants look like mint leaves and are all togather in 3 large ceramic pots. Again I am stupid about growing but bought Nirvana seeds AK 38, El Dorado, and a couple more.I over watered but got over it. I started my plants with an aerogrower(like on TV!) my plants are just getting into the flowering stage. They look so healthy but got mystery seeds from Nirvana. I planted them. They grew. When can I tell if I have only females? I see no balls?



The T-5 and UFO must be working wonders because a 250-watt HID light only gives you about 18 inches of decent quality light and below that the rays are weak and anything living in them is living in a low light situation. If it works for you, stick with it, but if it were me &#8230; I would get that 250-watter much closer to the plant tops and keep is as close as I could at all times. 


You asked; &#8220;Again I am stupid about growing but bought Nirvana seeds&#8230;.&#8221; and went on to mention strain names and slight over watering so I was unsure to what you were asking if you were possibly stupid for something or another. If by chance you were asking about the wisdom about purchasing from Nirvana, I will only say that there are numerous far better options to choose from and doing so next time would not be an injudicious thing for you to do. 

You also asked; &#8220;When can I tell if I have only females? I see no balls?&#8221; How eloquent of you. (JOKE) 

Depending on your setup and how you are growing like some you might possibly leave your plants in the vegetative growth phase long enough for them to develop sexual preflowers prior to a light cycle change. If so you then look at the sexual preflowers. 

If you do not veg that long after you change from a vegetative growth light cycle to a flowering light cycle it will stimulate a hormone in plants and they will then begin to flower, naturally first showing sexual preflowers. It can take a full two weeks of a flowering light cycle before a plants flowering hormones will fully kick in and of course to some degree genetic differences and conditional differences can slightly alter time for the exact same strain when grown in one setup or another &#8230; but normally you should not have to wait longer than two weeks, if that, after changing to a flowering light cycle to see sexual preflowers forming and telling you if you have males, females or some combination of each.


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## 0scar mayer (May 2, 2010)

in a 3x3 grow box would a 400 watt hps be enough to flower between 2 and 4 plants? and do any retail giants carry ballasts?


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## snow9 (May 4, 2010)

First of all I want to thank everybody here. This forum has been a very good source of info and i'm learning a lot 
I need some help and hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction. 
Just sprouted 6 seeds of different strains; snow white,big bud and edelweiss all feminised. I know these are considered to be indoor strains but I would like to grow outdoors. The sun is very bright here and we have 13.5 hours of sunshine right now which will increase by another hour in the next 2 months. The area where these ladies (hopefully) will be located is about 20 meters away from a hps which is used to light the surrounding area after sunset and it does not belong to me so I cannot switch it on/off as needed.
Will my plants veg with this cycle? The hps is quite far away so do not know how this would affect the plant.
For flowering I can always find a way to prevent the hps light from reaching the plants but I want them to veg for a while before switching.Any suggestions?


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## MT Farmer (May 7, 2010)

Hey, ok i have a light ? for all of you. i have a buddy that works for the power company and he got me a few street light setups and i was wounding about this light they come with its Ceramalux with Alto lamp technology one is a 100watt and two other 600watt. the ? is it says to only use in a hps ballast but does not say its a hps. the code on the box says "C100S54/ALTO" that is for the 100watt only one with a box. if anyone has ever used or have heard about these lights i guess all i want to know is if they would work for a grow. thanks alot and hope to talk more with all of you


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## PTSD (May 10, 2010)

I have a fluorescent 18,000 k power glo aquarium by glo, light good for coral, thoughts on veg please?


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## robert 14617 (May 18, 2010)

"C100S54/ALTO"...........google?


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## Jay_normous (May 20, 2010)

I have a question...

Whats your views on using the sun aswell as hps / mh bulbs to top up on.. Will it shock the plant due to the different colours in the spectrum..? or am i right in thinking.. More lumens the better..?

Thanks..


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## cdrippper2 (May 20, 2010)

Jay_normous said:


> I have a question...
> 
> Whats your views on using the sun aswell as hps / mh bulbs to top up on.. Will it shock the plant due to the different colours in the spectrum..? or am i right in thinking.. More lumens the better..?
> 
> Thanks..


unless you start bleaching your plants....And just to add a little something to this thread, the lumens per watt figure graphic on the first page of this thread is old. You can get 110 lumen/watt from hps,mh, and tube floros, and, as i'm rather involved in part of the "lighting" industry, They do have LED's that can hit upwards of 250lumens/watt (but are def. NOT avail to public yet). Those are "suppose" to be going mainstream in a 5yrs, assuming the world doesn't fall apart first. Also, anyone every heard of either plasma lighting, or heck, induction lighting? Induction is way to $$ for what you get, but the bulbs last 100,000 hours. Yes thats 100,000! /end of rant


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## Jay_normous (May 21, 2010)

By the terms "Bleaching" do you mean by too much light..?? If so then i don't think this will ever be the case, I live in Ireland..


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## cdrippper2 (May 21, 2010)

Jay_normous said:


> By the terms "Bleaching" do you mean by too much light..?? If so then i don't think this will ever be the case, I live in Ireland..


 To much light, yup. Anything more than 9,000-10,000 lumens per sq/ft is a waste. Heck 4,000 lumens sq/ft w HPS is blinding.


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## Jay_normous (May 28, 2010)

O.K. so is it better to start them on a certain side and slowly move them to the other side in oder to getb both spectrums..?


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## J.cun.Shallow (May 29, 2010)

I would appreciate if some one can ansewer this queastoin
I want to run a 600w hps sodium in a warbdrobe with a cool tube
I want to grow good harvesting plants
would I be better with a 400w hps


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## ganjaluvr (May 29, 2010)

grow man said:


> how far dose a 600 watt hps need to b away from seedlings.....


wow.. buddy. slow down, you should always start young seedlings or sprouts under CFL lights.. or flourescent bulbs of some sort.

starting a young plant under a 600 watt HPS isn't really good for the plant. They need to be able to get used to having the light first.. with lower wattage bulbs.. then after a week or so using CFL type of lighting.. then move them under the higher powered lights. This is done to help avoid plant shock.. due to the high and steep amounts of wattage and lumens that HPS and MH lights put out.

Just trying to help ya out man.. but hey if it works out for ya.. then good for you and I wish the best for ya. Hope things go well for you!

peace


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## robert 14617 (May 29, 2010)

J.cun.Shallow said:


> I would appreciate if some one can ansewer this queastoin
> I want to run a 600w hps sodium in a warbdrobe with a cool tube
> I want to grow good harvesting plants
> would I be better with a 400w hps


what size is your wardrobe?
 


what si


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## J.cun.Shallow (May 29, 2010)

robert 14617 said:


> what size is your wardrobe?
> 
> 
> 
> what si


thanks for the help.I have only just started researching plans for my growdrobe today. my plan is to have a veg room and flower room in the cupboard. I wanna have a perpetual grow and will grow from seed

Im no good at maths but heres the dimensions

Size H190, W157.8, D49cm.

and here is a link to the warbdrode I'm considering buying

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/6436348.htm


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## Cromx1904 (May 29, 2010)

this is the best info on lighting ive come across so far thx for the info


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## epiccolo (Jun 1, 2010)

i have a sylvania 120v spot glo light bulb i got at my hardware store. it says its for indoor growing. when i got home i googled it and found all bad news, but so far my plants seem to be doing fine. i plan to switch to metal halide in about a week or two (they are exactly one week). do these lights really not work, or is that just people who arent willing to try different things


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## leorfts (Jun 6, 2010)

epiccolo said:


> i have a sylvania 120v spot glo light bulb i got at my hardware store. it says its for indoor growing. when i got home i googled it and found all bad news, but so far my plants seem to be doing fine. i plan to switch to metal halide in about a week or two (they are exactly one week). do these lights really not work, or is that just people who arent willing to try different things


They look fine but stretching. and the light wont be enough for the other stages


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## Jay_normous (Jun 6, 2010)

Anybody know where I can get to info on running 250w M/H and 250w HPS together...
The pro and cons...? 

I've gone ahead and done it... Bit worried about the amount of energy it's using... and would like any info on this type of set up please..

My journal shows the two bulbs and my diy reflector...

Thanks for any help


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## king john (Jun 9, 2010)

let him know that u want to go pretty slow so no one gets hurt and so u dont ruin wat u have. so keep doing wat you're doing and enjoy having his company


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## king john (Jun 9, 2010)

Supporting troops that kill innocent people on a lie based war is wrong and make people who support them crime accessories.


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## Alwaystoking (Jun 9, 2010)

I've got this "Blue Buster" "Full spectrum light bulb" 1100 lumens, on the box it says 100w, on the bulb it says 75w, 120v. on the box it always says "like sunlight in your home!" The actual bulb is frosted a blue/purple tinge.

Should I use this light for the veg only?? (in combination with some cfls)


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## gwillim2006 (Jun 10, 2010)

Hi guys, just wondered if anyone could help me out here? I've just finished a 4 plant grow in an 800x800x1600 grow tent with a 250w hps light. I was pleased with the quality of my grow but I only yielded around 15g. I've been told that adding some side lights to my room could help considerably! What side lights should I fit tho? My last grow was Big Buddha Automatic, my new grow is Big Buddha Cheese. They're 5+1/2 weeks old now and just showing signs of flowering ( been on 12/12 for about 10days ). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Don't really want to buy a 400w or 600w ballist if I can make something out of house hold light fittings!!

Cheers guys


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## learntoreed (Jun 10, 2010)

A friend once told me 100w per plant is sufficient enough..


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## learntoreed (Jun 10, 2010)

> A friend once told me 100w per plant is sufficient enough..


 try to keep that in mind if you want to maximize your yield. Don't be shy with your lights, as long as you can keep it cool properly you should be able to walk away with a bigger yield.


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## mouthmeetsoap (Jun 12, 2010)

Wow, these threads are amazing! Thanks guys! Buttt...back to the stealing. I'd definitely suggest that if you are going to be "stealing" lights, steal them from city work zones rather than construction sites as construction owners pay for the lights themselves. The city uses OUR tax money, which we see very little done with nowadays, to buy their lights. We're just taking back what's ours. There are VERY HARSH consequences for getting caught though. I do not condone this. If you have the money, go buy your equipment like the rest of us. Also, I've seen good yields and quality from extremely primitive setups. Don't over-think it. Buy what you can afford, then upgrade what you can when you can after harvest.


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## PTGROWER678 (Jun 12, 2010)

Hey guys/gals, I'm about to get started on growing some outdoors and I am in a pickle. I have built a greenhouse out in the middle of the woods away from the law,parents and other civilians. The greenhouse is about 100 yards away from any electrical outlet, so running an extension cord that distance isn't ideal and i dont want anyone catching on. from what I have been able to dig up it doesnt look like there is any battery powered light sources. Now i was wondering if anyone had any ideas or words of advice etc. on how the heck i can get some more light to my ladies out in the woods, the sun isn't enough. Please respond back, i would greatly appreciate it.


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## gwillim2006 (Jun 12, 2010)

PTGROWER678 said:


> Hey guys/gals, I'm about to get started on growing some outdoors and I am in a pickle. I have built a greenhouse out in the middle of the woods away from the law,parents and other civilians. The greenhouse is about 100 yards away from any electrical outlet, so running an extension cord that distance isn't ideal and i dont want anyone catching on. from what I have been able to dig up it doesnt look like there is any battery powered light sources. Now i was wondering if anyone had any ideas or words of advice etc. on how the heck i can get some more light to my ladies out in the woods, the sun isn't enough. Please respond back, i would greatly appreciate it.


The only thing you could do really is use lamping torches, something like a million candle light torch. They will eat batteries though, so you'd need rechargables and somewhere to charge them! Hope that helps?


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## Jay_normous (Jun 12, 2010)

How does a 250w HPS & 250w MH compare against a 400w & 600w...?? I haven't a clue..


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## plotman (Jun 13, 2010)

could anyone help new grower im wondering when best time 2 change from fluorescent 2 400w lights all help welcome


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## Hazy Head (Jun 13, 2010)

plotman said:


> could anyone help new grower im wondering when best time 2 change from fluorescent 2 400w lights all help welcome


You can make the switch anytime you want! You will see a increase in growth once you switch to the HID


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## bertoberto (Jun 13, 2010)

Can I use a low wattage HPS bulb (150 Watt) with a socket that belongs to a higher wattage HPS bulb or are the sockets universal to wattage being used? Also if i am using a low wattage bulb (150 watt) it safe to plug straight into the wall or do i still have to use a ballast?


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## Jay_normous (Jun 13, 2010)

Jay_normous said:


> How does a 250w HPS & 250w MH compare against a 400w & 600w...?? I haven't a clue..


Anybody..? Anything..?


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## gwillim2006 (Jun 14, 2010)

bertoberto said:


> Can I use a low wattage HPS bulb (150 Watt) with a socket that belongs to a higher wattage HPS bulb or are the sockets universal to wattage being used? Also if i am using a low wattage bulb (150 watt) it safe to plug straight into the wall or do i still have to use a ballast?


 Don't plug your cfl into the ballast, there's a good chance it'll pop!! cfl's need to go straight into the mains! Not sure about putting a lower wattage hps, I do know you can't put a higher wattage into a lower ballest tho so be careful cos when they pop it's pretty nasty!!

Happy growing


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## Arby (Jun 16, 2010)

this was very informative thanks to the thread peace


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## wil2279 (Jun 16, 2010)

ok guys... i am trying to get an experienced growers advice here. I plan on using T5 bulbs to grow in an area about 3ft X 2ft X 3ft tall. I was planning on using 8 T5 bulbs in this area 4 6500K bulbs and 4 3000K bulbs. is this a good choice or do i not need that many bulbs? would i be better off with 4 bulbs total?


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## SkunkFunk420 (Jun 18, 2010)

wil2279 said:


> ok guys... i am trying to get an experienced growers advice here. I plan on using T5 bulbs to grow in an area about 3ft X 2ft X 3ft tall. I was planning on using 8 T5 bulbs in this area 4 6500K bulbs and 4 3000K bulbs. is this a good choice or do i not need that many bulbs? would i be better off with 4 bulbs total?


I'm using a T5 now, it's about the same dimensions you described, I only have 4 bulbs 50/50 red/blue and my plants are doing great, they are as tall as they are wide... Although they're only a few inches they're pretty bushy already. But I guess it would depend on how many plants you want to grow, if you only plan to grow 1-3, you'd be fine with the 4 bulb T5, anymore plants and you'll want more lights and watts. I'm using up an entire small closet and have only 300+ watts of flourescent power and my plants seem happy. Just make sure you have a reflective grow space and good reflectors on any lights that you use, and keep them about 2-3 inches away. I guess to answer your question though, the more light the better... Just watch the heat, my T5 only burned when the plants touch the bulbs. Good luck.


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## wil2279 (Jun 19, 2010)

SkunkFunk420 said:


> I'm using a T5 now, it's about the same dimensions you described, I only have 4 bulbs 50/50 red/blue and my plants are doing great, they are as tall as they are wide... Although they're only a few inches they're pretty bushy already. But I guess it would depend on how many plants you want to grow, if you only plan to grow 1-3, you'd be fine with the 4 bulb T5, anymore plants and you'll want more lights and watts. I'm using up an entire small closet and have only 300+ watts of flourescent power and my plants seem happy. Just make sure you have a reflective grow space and good reflectors on any lights that you use, and keep them about 2-3 inches away. I guess to answer your question though, the more light the better... Just watch the heat, my T5 only burned when the plants touch the bulbs. Good luck.


 
Thanks for the info! it is likepulling teeth on here to get people to give advice. most of the guys just want to tal about their grows, which i also understand. I have ordered a sun blaze 2ft X 8 bulb high output grow light that i will be using. I was thinking about growing about 4 plants in this cabinet under this light. I dont' want to grow 4 plants average if i would do better to only grow 2 plnats. it is my 1st grow so i am a little wet behind the ears. i am guessing that you think this is enough light for 3 or 4 plants? I bought 4 eight inch flower pots today. i was looking for 5liter pots but they didn't list volume only size of pot. they look to be between 1 and 2 gallon sized.


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## SkunkFunk420 (Jun 20, 2010)

wil2279 said:


> Thanks for the info! it is likepulling teeth on here to get people to give advice. most of the guys just want to tal about their grows, which i also understand. I have ordered a sun blaze 2ft X 8 bulb high output grow light that i will be using. I was thinking about growing about 4 plants in this cabinet under this light. I dont' want to grow 4 plants average if i would do better to only grow 2 plnats. it is my 1st grow so i am a little wet behind the ears. i am guessing that you think this is enough light for 3 or 4 plants? I bought 4 eight inch flower pots today. i was looking for 5liter pots but they didn't list volume only size of pot. they look to be between 1 and 2 gallon sized.


What size is your ligjt? (What are the dimensions in inches?) I couldn't find a good sized 8 bulb fixture. Those 8 inch pots will be fine for the first month or so. I put mine in the clear solo cups, that way I can see the speed of the root development. I'd suggest doing it like that, it's pretty interesting. And 4 plants in a well lit reflective cabinet are fine. They'll do just great. I'd say the 8 inch pots are good up until the plants are about a foot or so in height. Root's will fill a Solo cup in about 2 weeks time. You should try it.


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## wil2279 (Jun 21, 2010)

SkunkFunk420 said:


> What size is your ligjt? (What are the dimensions in inches?) I couldn't find a good sized 8 bulb fixture. Those 8 inch pots will be fine for the first month or so. I put mine in the clear solo cups, that way I can see the speed of the root development. I'd suggest doing it like that, it's pretty interesting. And 4 plants in a well lit reflective cabinet are fine. They'll do just great. I'd say the 8 inch pots are good up until the plants are about a foot or so in height. Root's will fill a Solo cup in about 2 weeks time. You should try it.


23 3/4" X 22 1/2" X 2 1/2" are the dimensions of the (sun blaze T5 28 ). http://www.growlightexpress.com/fluorescent-grow-lights-5/sun-blaze-t5-1055.html try this website... it gives you info and a good price! I am growing autos and the seeds i ordered are supposed to finish in about 7 weeks and be about 10 or 12 inches tall so i think the pots i have should be ok to finish in. what do you suggest lining the cabinet with. i had a couple people tell me to just paint it a glossy, reflective white... i saw a really reflective foil tyvek house wrap that i thought about trying...


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## SkunkFunk420 (Jun 21, 2010)

Line it with mylar. I believe that's what it's called. It's better than tin foil, or just white paint. What kind of box are you growing in? Is it like a home made wood one? If it's a crappy materia(like cardboard, lol, I've actually done it)l and crappy color (brown) on the inside then just spray paint it with a couple coats of white paint, I used flat white primer on a cardboard box and it worked great. I also use 5 gallon buckets because they are bigger and cheaper in comparison to the same size pots (like $5 at home depot). But mylars a really good reflective material, I want to get some. Hope this helps.


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## wil2279 (Jun 21, 2010)

where do you find mylar at? and yes i am building it out of plywood. going to paint and distress it so it just looks like an old cabinet.


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## FruityPebbles (Jun 29, 2010)

are t12's good for vegetative growth?


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## wil2279 (Jun 29, 2010)

thanks... yea it is going to be home made out of plywood


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## gepetto420 (Jun 30, 2010)

why no LED ?


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## sea (Jul 4, 2010)

can u use a 600w lamp with a 1000w ballast?


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## gwenwon (Jul 4, 2010)

I wonder which would you guys prefer: cheaper lights or expensive lights with longer lifespan?
Thanks


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## BigBudE (Jul 4, 2010)

sea said:


> can u use a 600w lamp with a 1000w ballast?


The quick answer is no. Sorry
BigBudE


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## sea (Jul 12, 2010)

can a 600w mh bulb or 1000w mh be used with a 1000w hps ballast?


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## greeneyedshane (Jul 12, 2010)

If during flowering the lights are off for 1 or 2 days will that in anyway hurt the plants or yeild?


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## Oneton (Jul 13, 2010)

greeneyedshane said:


> If during flowering the lights are off for 1 or 2 days will that in anyway hurt the plants or yeild?


yes they wont grow in that time (yield)
it would stress them also (hurt)
so yes dude


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## Oneton (Jul 13, 2010)

sea said:


> can a 600w mh bulb or 1000w mh be used with a 1000w hps ballast?


no and no 
unless it says on it that it can, some have duel uses but it would say on it


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## sea (Jul 14, 2010)

Oneton said:


> no and no
> unless it says on it that it can, some have duel uses but it would say on it


 its a plantmax 1000w mh


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## Oneton (Jul 14, 2010)

doesnt say here;- http://www.venturelighting.com/VLPS/stand_mh_1000WBallast.html it can so no dont do it


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## 7thtoker (Jul 17, 2010)

dont plants need "resting dark periods" ?? I read that somewhere in some marijuana lighting guide


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## Oneton (Jul 18, 2010)

7thtoker said:


> dont plants need "resting dark periods" ?? I read that somewhere in some marijuana lighting guide


https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/292985-24-0-vs-18-6-a.html 
check that out, its a good thread, but do your own reasearch (google) on the info you take from it also.
i veg 24/0 when the weather is cooler. but in the summer i 18/6 because of heat issues just. 24/0 is amazing under hps i'd say a good 30% increase in growth so i can reduce the veg time accordingly. but in saying that i find the plants are also a lot more sensitive and extra care is needed .


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## rastaman00 (Jul 20, 2010)

I have a question if any one can answer ...i was wondering if it would cause any problems if i veg my plants under a 600wat and then flower them under a 1000watt ...will this method be ok to try


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## Oneton (Jul 20, 2010)

rastaman00 said:


> I have a question if any one can answer ...i was wondering if it would cause any problems if i veg my plants under a 600wat and then flower them under a 1000watt ...will this method be ok to try


if its an hps (sodium) lamp then it would be great. just remember to raise it a bit


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## bubble hash (Jul 23, 2010)

Just new 

i use florecent lights for clones , then re-pot into 10 ltr pot , put them under a metal halide 600. Then when plants are abt3ft tall put them into flower with a 600 sodium for 8-10 weeks and get at least 5 ounce . Nutrients are canna coco a+b rhizotonic, and canazyme for veggie. Then flowering is 30 of a+b 30 canazyme 30 topmax 10 rhizo , in a 10 ltr bucket. All wiith canna coco soil


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## letmetry (Jul 28, 2010)

Whats up ppl ... Starting my first grow soon and I'm looking to see what size and how many HPS i should put in the room ( 10' by 9' ). I want to maximize all the space, any advice i can get back ASAP would be helpful.

thanx, Letmetry


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## Mouth orgasm (Jul 28, 2010)

150W/150W x 2 and i think the biggest you could go is 400W IMO I'm generally always stoned though so measurements aren't my expertise :\ make sure you line the walls with mylar/tin foil/flat white paint, happy growing


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## IAm5toned (Jul 28, 2010)

well a single 400w would cover a 4 x 4 foot area, so you fail.....

you would 4 400w and 1 150w, to get it right.....


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## Spanishfly (Jul 29, 2010)

sea said:


> can a 600w mh bulb or 1000w mh be used with a 1000w hps ballast?


You can get MH bulbs that are compatible with HPS ballasts. Saves buying 2 ballasts. But the power of bulb and ballast must match.


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## Oneton (Jul 30, 2010)

if i had that space i'd prob stick 2x600watters in or a 1000w wid a 400w mh. thats just what i'd do. what you should do depends on your style dude


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## danno48 (Jul 31, 2010)

I've got a 400w ballast rig that came with 400w HPS bulb. Went to Home Depot and got a 400w MH light to start my grow. Just screwed it into the lamp holder and everything seems to me fine. Ballast gets hot, but I think it's a digital ballast that should allow me to use either bulb as long as its 400w. Is this correct? Right now my 1 week old seedlings are under the 400w mh (about three feet above them). I've been advised not to put seedlings under mh, but they seem very happy this way. When should I switch over to the hps? I assume when I decide to flower.


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## letmetry (Aug 1, 2010)

as far as i've been told hps is best for flowering so you would be correct in that assumption. Good luck and happy growing...


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## wangyunan (Aug 3, 2010)

due to the size of my veranda and the environment surrounding it, to be too bright at night would be a huge risk for me to take. I got a 250w high pressure sodium which looks not very suspicious from outside. Problem is I got 11 plants in an area about 1 m2. I mean that I know my lighting is kinda low, so I shrinked the area and packed all my babies in that SQ METER to get'em as close to the light as they can. By the way this's my first time grow weed, 11 white russians from serious seeds, so I need to know that if my way is "Okay"?? Or I should just simply enlarge the space between them?


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## warnerwh (Aug 4, 2010)

To the OP: The guy saying you should ideally have 4 400's and a 150 is correct. Many people consider 50 watts per square foot but you can do fine with 40. Above 50 watts a square foot and diminishing returns sets in quickly.
Danno48: Don't try to cut costs too much especially on lighting. I know they are expensive but a Hortilux or Sunmaster bulb is better for growing and are worth every extra penny they cost. Don't assume your ballast will work with either MH or HPS. There are switchable ballasts and special MH bulbs designed to work in an HPS system. You want to keep the temp in the 70's for those seeds if you can, definitely under 80 degrees. A 400 watt light is overkill and puts out a lot of heat. And the seedlings are fragile. You can get fluorescent light fixtures and grow bulbs that are cheap from Home Depot but get the grow bulbs at a grow store, I wouldn't use the ones Home Depot sells. These fluorescent bulbs create very little heat. You can allow your babies to grow into and touching the fluorescent bulbs. You don't go to HPS until flower however you can do the entire grow from veg to bloom with either HPS or MH only.
Study the grow stickies in the forums. I see so many beginners that could do much better with just an hour or two of their time. The difference between a beginner and an experienced grower using the exact same setup and strains can be 4 to one for yield. Just learn about PH and nutes as well as how much nutes and you will do much better with the health of your plants and it will make a big difference in yield.


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## smithyboi (Aug 27, 2010)

i just got a 600w hps lamp with reflector and balllast, it like burns my eyes its so bright, is that normal? i mean it is FU**ING bright


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## okayimreloaded (Sep 2, 2010)

good looks cuz i was very confused when it came to the lighting


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## majors517 (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks for this valuable info on the lights.


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## streets (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm vegging plants under a 6 lamp T8 fixture, bulbs are 6500k. Is this enough for 8 plants? This is a soil grow btw. I just switched from MH to T8. I have tons of pics in my journal, links in my sig. Lemme know. Thanks in advance!!


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## letitgrow77 (Sep 3, 2010)

My ole lady forgot to plug my lights back in this morning! They have been in 18/6 for a month now, and they went a soild 8 hours without lights, they had just come off thier sleep cycle about an hour before she unplugged. Think this will have anykind of impact? And i have fixed this problem so its not going to happen again.


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## Stalwart (Sep 6, 2010)

Hi I'm Stalwart from OG and I signed up here a couple years ago but not posted but back at it so I'm baa-aack! I used to say check the light with your palm over the top of the plant and it should feel like a tropical sun ie a bit warmer than most USA'ers maybe S. Fla but not around wherever I am! LOL


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## urbangrowereastend (Sep 8, 2010)

Hi I have 8x 250W cfl's. 4x 27k and 4x 65k from plug and grow. I have used sumate reflectors and have put 2 of them right next to each other to cover a 4sq. ft area over each amazon aeroponics set up. So far they have produced 14 inches of growth in 30 days with very tight and compact internodal length. I am now 3 days into flowering and have had another 3 inches of growth. I grow in the spare room of a flat in the city and wanted a low heat and electricity consuming light set up.
So far the temps have been easy peasy to control and the growth albeit veg has been great, I was worried about out and out light penetration issues but am now more confident. They seem to be doing really well but lets wait till they start flowering, the buds are what matters. 

I know I have more than most cfl users but they do seem to work really well. 



roosterfish said:


> ive just changed to 250 wats of them nlite cfls red and perple wud love to know if anyone cud fill me in on any ifo about um


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## 9867mike777 (Sep 21, 2010)

streets said:


> I'm vegging plants under a 6 lamp T8 fixture, bulbs are 6500k. Is this enough for 8 plants? This is a soil grow btw. I just switched from MH to T8. I have tons of pics in my journal, links in my sig. Lemme know. Thanks in advance!!


 That should be plenty for vegging. In fact probably overkill.


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## budling357 (Sep 24, 2010)

majors517 said:


> Thanks for this valuable info on the lights.


I second that!


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## annahasier (Sep 27, 2010)

why no induction lamps here? 166.6 lumens p /watt and not even a mention. ck out the utube indagro videos and see the pics of the grows.


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## Buzzzz (Sep 29, 2010)

I have a 3x3x6 grow tent. I'm a dirt farmer and would like to get the best light for this size room. Where do I get the best light, reflector, ballast and most of all price??


Thanks in advance..


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## zeropercentthc (Oct 16, 2010)

letmetry said:


> Whats up ppl ... Starting my first grow soon and I'm looking to see what size and how many HPS i should put in the room ( 10' by 9' ). I want to maximize all the space, any advice i can get back ASAP would be helpful.
> 
> thanx, Letmetry


I don't know anything, but I'd use 5x5 of it for a 1000w MH vegging/cloning tent, and three 1000 watt HPS lights for the rest open space. If going by the common general suggestion of 50 watts per sq ft, you'd be looking for 4,500 watts total. Likely you'd need some big powerful ventilation with cool air intake, or an AC unit though I suppose. Though just to start with I'd go for 1000 watt HPS for flowering and CFLs for vegging and work from there. Get a 30 amp line set up to a light controller with a relay for your 1000hps if you're using a 1000 watter though.


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## Oneton (Oct 19, 2010)

zeropercentthc said:


> I don't know anything, but I'd use 5x5 of it for a 1000w MH vegging/cloning tent, and three 1000 watt HPS lights for the rest open space. If going by the common general suggestion of 50 watts per sq ft, you'd be looking for 4,500 watts total. Likely you'd need some big powerful ventilation with cool air intake, or an AC unit though I suppose. Though just to start with I'd go for 1000 watt HPS for flowering and CFLs for vegging and work from there. Get a 30 amp line set up to a light controller with a relay for your 1000hps if you're using a 1000 watter though.


he's right he, dont know anything. 1x 1000w hps does 10x10


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## zeropercentthc (Oct 19, 2010)

Oneton said:


> he's right he, dont know anything. 1x 1000w hps does 10x10


That's only 10 watts per square foot. Could you link me with information suggesting that? Of the dozens of grows I've seen posted, in cases where they provided wattage and area, the lowest I'd seen were 25 watts per sq foot. Most aimed towards 30-100 watts per sq ft. The first post of this thread suggests using at least 4000 watts for a 10x10 area (4x4ft for one 1000w HPS)


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## sparkjumper (Oct 23, 2010)

Speaking about fixtures and how the light reacts a "deep" fixture with the lamp recessed way up in the fixture tends to concentrate the light downward dispersing it very little.These types are great for vegging I've found when the plants arent as "branchy" and spread out.On the other end of the spectrum a "shallow" fixture tends to disperse the light more,that is why I like the vertizontal for flowering


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## Snow Crash (Oct 25, 2010)

Oneton said:


> he's right he, dont know anything. 1x 1000w hps does 10x10


This statement is extremely false, borderline retarded.

Let us assume our 1000w bulb is producing 120,000 lumens (a generalization of the intensity of the light) at a distance of 7 inches. At 14 inches away the lumen level is cut by 4 due to the inverse square law (same amount of energy spread across a larger area). At 21 inches it is cut by 9. At 28 inches it is cut by 16, and at 35 inches it is cut by 25. A 10x10 area would have the plants on the edges a minimum of 5 feet from the light source. Given that the bulb needs to be suspended several feet above the canopy we're talking a good 8 feet from the bulb to the edge. That's 96 inches, or about 1/188 of the available power for a grand total of about 650 lumens... 1/4 of what is required for photosynthesis.

The ideal canopy size for a 1000w is 4 feet by 4 feet. You can push it to 5x5, but realize you're adding another 9 square feet, or more than 50% of the space, which is going to translate into a lower concentration of the available energy.


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## txgreencard (Oct 27, 2010)

http://www.purplemountainorganics.com/Glow_Panel45_LED.html
Check out these led's compare to 250w hps


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## GrowGod303 (Oct 28, 2010)

I just started using this plasma grow light from stray light and its fucking awesome. I bought it off of confidentiallightingsolutions.com


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## shane sanborn (Oct 29, 2010)

GrowGod303 said:


> I just started using this plasma grow light from stray light and its fucking awesome. I bought it off of confidentiallightingsolutions.com



thats too much bux for a light holly shit 1300 hhu

bet it pays itself off pretty quick though


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## Snow Crash (Oct 29, 2010)

Yeah, $1300 is a bit much. I've seen them as low as $1,150... but still. Fuck that. Not when that money could get four 1000w systems setup. 

When they come down into the $500 to $600 range is when I'd consider picking one up. At that price the life span and energy savings that make it more economical would be incentive enough to get one.

A person can build a 70w themselves for about $400 from plasma television/projector parts, good for an area 1.5 feet cubed. Google DIY plasma lighting for some info.


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## shane sanborn (Nov 2, 2010)

testing something this reply is nothing


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## Oneton (Nov 2, 2010)

ok i got my info from reading "Indoor mariguana horticulture" by jorge cervantes 
upon revisiting the book it does say, "growers with a 10"x10" area using a 1000w halide *may* add a 1000w hps during flowering".
i didnt just make it up


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## BabyBear74 (Nov 2, 2010)

imo t5 for veg..600w hps for flower


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## delvite (Nov 3, 2010)

dammmmnnnn my bulb popped, thank gd i had a spare lol. is a 150w sodium good for sprouts, space is about 1 x 1 about 30cm from tops?


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## noT My nAmE (Nov 4, 2010)

Alright spank the newb later... hypothetically, wouldn't 4 - 90w ufo's out perform 1 - 400 hid? I know its more expensive for the lights. But if a big concern is energy consumption and heat, wouldnt this be superior?? I have one, but soon will be needing more light and convincing the old lady that 2000 watts of light wont attract attention is not really working. I would also need a air conditioner (hanging out the window) and that wont fly. plus it eats power too. 

Am I just gonna end up with a bigger yield of so-so nugs? I think less, but better pot is my goal overall, if I had too choose.

Has anybody had ANY luck with LED's? I can put that light like 4" from the plant with no ill effects. wouldn't 4 led's on a 4x4 sea of green out perform 1 400 hid? maybe with supplemental white light, like a couple cfl's?? I would still be running less power and cooler. Socal summers are crazy hot. I would have to include the price of cooling too. It just seems like a better option. Unless the nug just isnt what it could be. I mean, that IS why we're doin all this, right?


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## lovetogarden (Nov 5, 2010)

I also want to try LED light but I don't want to be wasting money on it later on. Is it really cost-effective? How about the grows, are the results way better than those grown under HID lights? I hope someone here can share his experience in using LED lights. Thanks


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## sameenashaheen (Nov 5, 2010)

We have been getting many new users lately who don't seem to know the finer points of our rules.


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## noT My nAmE (Nov 5, 2010)

sameenashaheen said:


> We have been getting many new users lately who don't seem to know the finer points of our rules.


did I miss something??


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## Snow Crash (Nov 5, 2010)

sameenashaheen said:


> We have been getting many new users lately who don't seem to know the finer points of our rules.


Says the person with one post, off topic, in a thread about lighting...

C'mon, that's just sad.

I'm unsub'd for sure.


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## noT My nAmE (Nov 5, 2010)

is it cause i'm stoned?? what just happened??


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## littlefrasure (Nov 7, 2010)

will one hps 400 watt light work for just growing a couple plants at a time?


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## evilpnut (Nov 7, 2010)

yeah it is humorous...lol but i ALWAYS say...ya can never stop learnin! U gotta read, read, read, and READ somemore!!! Good farmin'!


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## bluntburner707 (Nov 8, 2010)

i have a 5x5 flower room. how would i set somthing like this up. i was told the big thing was cuting clones from a 2week flowering plant would make it grow better for a sog. is it just putting chicken wire up to alow the to of the plant to grow out.


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## bluntburner707 (Nov 8, 2010)

i have a 5x5 flower room. how would i set somthing like this up. i was told the big thing was cuting clones from a 2week flowering plant would make it grow better for a sog. is it just putting chicken wire up to alow the to of the plant to grow out. plz help


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## bluntburner707 (Nov 8, 2010)

have a 5x5 flower room. how would i set somthing like this up. i was told the big thing was cuting clones from a 2week flowering plant would make it grow better for a sog. is it just putting chicken wire up to alow the to of the plant to grow out.


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## bluntburner707 (Nov 21, 2010)

yea its called supper croping when u cut clones from flowering plants. just google it and read


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## travish413 (Nov 21, 2010)

I found this video you might want to check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CtROw3uiVg


lovetogarden said:


> I also want to try LED light but I don't want to be wasting money on it later on. Is it really cost-effective? How about the grows, are the results way better than those grown under HID lights? I hope someone here can share his experience in using LED lights. Thanks


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## harveyjarvey (Nov 23, 2010)

Lighting question: My seeds cracked and I planted them in soil, do I start running my lights now or wait till they come above the soil. I read they use the seed as food but please let me know if it will help if I run my CFL's now or just wait till they sprout up out of the soil.

Thanks plus rep for help


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## DurtyHarry (Nov 23, 2010)

What about led? Does anyone have any info on growing with 120w quadband led? They worked fine on my first grow but I am just about to start my second grow and I don't have any way to compare. Any input is greatly appreciated thanks!!


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## zovoel (Dec 2, 2010)

Following the advice on this thread has been very helpful with my own grow. Thanks to everyone with positive input, it's greatly appreciated. Check out my CFL closet grow, putting this good info to use!

https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/296347-zovoel.html


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## martinbin (Dec 2, 2010)

You have to do Discussion on Lighting and After saw this discussion I searched about this and I found very inserting and positive view about lighting.


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## Kaylyn (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for the post! New to growing and the site. Trying to figure the lights in my closet. This definitely helps!


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## Beastie Bloom (Dec 3, 2010)

Thought this was interesting. New 1000w ballast to support low frequency bulbs.

http://tgchydro.com/hydroponics/products-page/grow-lights/grow-light-ballasts/badass-ballast-1000w-advanced-nutrients/


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## 9monthsomg (Dec 9, 2010)

Was wondering how many CFL's it takes to offer the equiv. of a 400w. mH / Hps. considering building a light bar (square) to raise and lower over plants... as they grow and wondering what the options are. I like the idea of cost diff. and cooler temps. Just exploring the options like I said.


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## Beno Brown (Dec 12, 2010)

I read somewhere that LED lights give off the least amount of heat as well as require less energy to function thus not raising your electric bill by much. Is that true?


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## fmercury (Dec 19, 2010)

Hi
I'm on my first grow and would be grateful if somebody can advise me on my lighting. I've got 1x 600hps and also 2x T5 lightwave 2700k (4 red tubes) fluorescent grow light, I would like to know if I can use both of them during flowering. Or the 600hps will be fine on it's own.

Thanks


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## trunkneck (Dec 24, 2010)

fmercury said:


> Hi
> I'm on my first grow and would be grateful if somebody can advise me on my lighting. I've got 1x 600hps and also 2x T5 lightwave 2700k (4 red tubes) fluorescent grow light, I would like to know if I can use both of them during flowering. Or the 600hps will be fine on it's own.
> 
> Thanks


The short answer is yes. You never have too much light. I would use the T5's as supplement light either in the corners or the sides etc. As long as it does not interfere with other lighting and you can get them close to the plants.


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## fmercury (Dec 24, 2010)

Thanks for your reply Trunkneck, I really appreciate.


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## Blue River (Dec 28, 2010)

Always shopping prices and found this lighting site to carry quality product, resonably priced and shipped quickly. Just an FYI for ya'all. 

http://www.gladiatorlighting.com/categories/Grow-Bulbs/


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## chazbolin (Dec 30, 2010)

ck out http://inda-gro.com/gallery/album/9#5 if you're interested in saving some energy and running one lamp from clone thru bud with induction lights. I replaced a 600 watt HPS and 2 of my 4 lamp T5's for a single 400 watt bi-spectrum inda-gro light. They run way cooler then the HPS and the kush yields over the last two grows have been running at 300 gr p/m



fmercury said:


> Hi
> I'm on my first grow and would be grateful if somebody can advise me on my lighting. I've got 1x 600hps and also 2x T5 lightwave 2700k (4 red tubes) fluorescent grow light, I would like to know if I can use both of them during flowering. Or the 600hps will be fine on it's own.
> 
> Thanks


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## collective gardener (Jan 1, 2011)

Our 2 Cents,

We have a grow op large enough to experiment with most commercially available horticultural lighting. We've done these "tests" side by side, with all other variables identical. The purpose has always been to identify any better alternatives to HID lighting. By better, I mean more efficient, cooler running, faster and/or more robust growth, with little weight given to initial cost. With 20,000 watts of HID running, even a small increase in yield and/or reduction in running and cooling costs would pay for the initial cash outlay fairly quickly.

Unfortunately, HID is still clearly the best choice for us. CFL's just don't have enough canopy penetration. Optimum growth only occurs in the top 12" of canopy. This cut our square footage yield by 70%. The node spacing was twice what it was with HID. They're just not bright enough. I would go with a tiny HID before any CFL on the market.

LED performed better than the CFL's, but still miles from HID. We used them in both veg. and flower stages and saw differences in both.

I haven't tried plasma yet, but will soon. I can't help but anticipating more of the same.

We are still burning 8-1000watt MH's, and 12-1000 HPS's. Ironically, pretty much the same settup I started growing with in 1994...just a few more lights and better bulbs. Oh...I do like to use T-5's now for cloning and the first week of veg. Of all the advances in indoor growing, lighting seems to have hit a cieling some time ago.

To anyone getting started, you just can't beat T-5 (clones, seedlings), Sun Pulse 6.4k Metal Halide for veg, and High Pressure Sodium for flowering...I like the digilux bulb. I should mention that I use the 6.4 Sun Pulse for the first 7-14 days of flowering (strain dependant). This helps keep stretching under control and improves node spacing.

This is just what works for us. I'm sure other growing styles will have better success with different settups. I am sure, though, that you will not be dissapointed with these lights.


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## ridefastdiefunmx (Jan 2, 2011)

ok i just started to grow..i have 2 26 watt daylight 6500k bulbs and two vertical fluo ..i also want to know if at what time can i tell what sex they are..i am like 1 mon and 2 wks in there nice looking i have them on continuous lighting ..what else can i do to ensure healthy and happy growth


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## collective gardener (Jan 3, 2011)

Ride Fast,

More info would be good. However, with respect to lighting (to stay on topic), your yield will increase big time if you move into an HID. Even a little 250watt self contained ballast metal halide with an HPS conversion bulb for flowering will due to get you started. At the very least get an HPS for flowering. 

Depending on the strain, you may be able to sex them right now with a good eye. If not, you can tell for sure about 2 weeks into flowering.


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## ridefastdiefunmx (Jan 4, 2011)

i have a 125 hydrofarm full spectrum 2700k warm for flowering..is that good..
i have 2 hps lights one 400 watt or 430watt? and a 750watt hps..i didnt know they made hps lights with with self contained ballast where do i get them?and what type of more info..sorry if i seem dead headed i just really dont know that much..ive read allot for like 2 months prior to starting and still reading..so letme know what details you need and ill see if i can tell you?




collective gardener said:


> Ride Fast,
> 
> More info would be good. However, with respect to lighting (to stay on topic), your yield will increase big time if you move into an HID. Even a little 250watt self contained ballast metal halide with an HPS conversion bulb for flowering will due to get you started. At the very least get an HPS for flowering.
> 
> Depending on the strain, you may be able to sex them right now with a good eye. If not, you can tell for sure about 2 weeks into flowering.


----------



## chazbolin (Jan 6, 2011)

Did you test a 400 watt bi-spectrum induction? the reason I ask is that without having to switch lamps there is definitely less stress on the plants and the growth is explosive compared to other fluoro options. I have an extra one if you're interested in it PM me. 



collective gardener said:


> Ride Fast,
> 
> More info would be good. However, with respect to lighting (to stay on topic), your yield will increase big time if you move into an HID. Even a little 250watt self contained ballast metal halide with an HPS conversion bulb for flowering will due to get you started. At the very least get an HPS for flowering.
> 
> Depending on the strain, you may be able to sex them right now with a good eye. If not, you can tell for sure about 2 weeks into flowering.


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## Outta Spacehigh Spaghetti (Jan 16, 2011)

The LED party bulbs sold at Menards are only 0.6 Watt LEDs so I suggest not buying


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## docrock (Jan 20, 2011)

Hold your hand at the top of the plant, palm down. If after 20 or so seconds it is uncomfortable or burns your hand, move the light up.


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## Stalwart (Jan 21, 2011)

A conversion from watts to btu would be useful. The light cost of glass over the lights, The light increase due to installing a half a 20 oz water bottle reflectors over cfl's?


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## Stalwart (Jan 21, 2011)

businesslights.com is about the best place to get things unless you are willing to disconnect your deliveries from your own life and then PropertyRoom.com is the bomb next to stealing from the freakin police!


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## Superdan01 (Jan 23, 2011)

been using 600w (HPS) sunmaster dual spectrum from start to finish for some time and some great results. also use 250w powerplant envirogrow lamp for cloning and mother, fanastic growth every time. peace


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## D'' (Jan 23, 2011)

my friend is running a 150 hps in a bathroom but with no ballst it is in a fixture that holds 150watt. is it safe? and is it putting off as much as if he had a ballast?


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## I already Node (Jan 23, 2011)

roosterfish said:


> want to know theses any gud...........
> 
> [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans Serif][SIZE=+1]*Control the shape and growth of your plants with light - Photoponics.* [/SIZE][/FONT]​Introducing *Nlite&#8482;* - a range of Quality Fluorescent lamps designed for PLANTS (also perfect for aquaria and reptiles).
> 
> ...


I'm not disagreeing with you or this analogy but to my understanding is, your saying don't worry about Lumens and get Purp color lighting, at least as an added color spectrum to your grow lighting situation. Post some pictures of grows aupporting this thesis; I am very interested! Especially because all the purple lighting that I have seen so far is around $7.00 for 100 watt's. 

I've got this dank bag seed grow coming up; I'm pretty sure is a girl, got her scrogged out with like 27 bud stems, under CFL's because at the moment I'm on a budget. However In a month or two I'm gonna buy a 150 watt HPS Floralux and add it to the Box! Had several successful grow's so far with CFL's but I'm alway's interested in better ways to do things. If purple light has better specs I'm all for it, as knowing LED's have supposed better penetration. 

Although, I found this thread stating in one thread that UVB specs are only good in short intervals and should be cut off completely after the trichome development has started to diminish or has gottin cloudy.

UVB Reptile Bulb


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## chazbolin (Jan 24, 2011)

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/401594-blue-dream-800w-induction-lights.html


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## patrick198 (Jan 25, 2011)

matth82003 said:


> *Color rating*- Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum.
> 
> *How much light is needed?*
> The minimum amount of light required by marijuana plants is around 3000 lumens per square foot. However, it's not 100% accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and reflectivity of the grow box. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens/sqft, and as long as the plants do not burn, as much light can be used as you want.
> ...




Great post! It's very nice. Thank you so much for your post.


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## Mr. Solo Dolo (Jan 27, 2011)

yes very helpful. thanks


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## chazbolin (Jan 28, 2011)

There's a Dr. Tesla at the door and he's asking why he wasn't invited? What should I tell him?

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/401594-blue-dream-800w-induction-lights.html




matth82003 said:


> *Color rating*- Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum.
> 
> *How much light is needed?*
> The minimum amount of light required by marijuana plants is around 3000 lumens per square foot. However, it's not 100% accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and reflectivity of the grow box. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens/sqft, and as long as the plants do not burn, as much light can be used as you want.
> ...


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## Canibitual (Jan 28, 2011)

Hey Guys, I got a funny question based on the inverse square law...

If I have a 4bulb t5ho (5k per bulb), is that 20K?, or is it just 5K spread out... (I have 2 of these on each side of a 3x3 table)

I've been reading different explanations of the square distance, and there are conflicting notes... some say 6inches away is 50% (t5ho) and some say 1ft is 50% less (HID) ... which is it? 

now if I figure ...

they're combined at 20k, what's the lums at 1ft away... is it 10k? 
they're not combined and only 5k what's the lums at 1ft away....is it only 2500?...

When My plants are small and the light is about 6inches or less away, the plants grow really well, but as soon as my table fills up with different size plants, then The lights are about 1ft away and they slow down... 

I'm basically considering changeing the t5's out and moving a 400w Mh to my veg area as I think 400w of hps is going to make the plants grow faster/bigger with more lums... (it will be vented) it would prob have to be 1.5ft away though to spread light completely over the 3x3 table... but I think it will still have more light overall... what do you guys think?


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## highonbud (Feb 4, 2011)

This Forum really helped me out thank you for posting this great information that is helping in the creation of tomorrows Marijuana industry


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## willy473 (Feb 6, 2011)

do u think i need a bigfger light than a 600 in this room


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## realmeatdildo (Feb 11, 2011)

How Long Before the 600w HPS Bulbs Lumen Output Decays to Where it Needs Replacing? 

I read the guide here that said the life of the 600 watt HPS was between 10,000 and 22,500 hours which translates to about 2.5 -5 years @ 12/12. 

However, I also read somewhere that the lumen output decays far more quickly than that and that it would be a good idea to replace bulbs after about 1 year because otherwise they are putting out fewer useable lumens and just producing heat and light without 'the juice'.

Does anyone have any idea about this, please?


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## Stalwart (Feb 13, 2011)

I tell yah what just lookin at that chart with the lumen/watt ratio for LPS makes me wonder what is wrong with them again?


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## chazbolin (Feb 14, 2011)

LPS would be one of the worst choices for growing. These lamps are considered monochromatic. The dull yellow is a result of the lamp only producing light in the 580 nm range. If you look at the radiometric light output on a graph the lamp only produces one narrow tall peak in that range. Plant pigments ignore this spectrum in search of 610-720 nm ranges for flowering. 

LPS is actually a good example why lumen/watt ratios are meaningless when discussing proper plant lighting.




Stalwart said:


> I tell yah what just lookin at that chart with the lumen/watt ratio for LPS makes me wonder what is wrong with them again?


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## bonman (Feb 23, 2011)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


Since you've let everyone on this board know you are a thief, 
why don't you just make things easier on yourself and steal your pot instead of stealing the equipment to 
grow it !

Geeze, What a low low life!


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## cheechzilla (Feb 27, 2011)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180632322664&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180632329585&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT


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## dokebi (Mar 4, 2011)

I have a quick question, what would you consider using for flowering? 

I've used hps and had successful grows, but I heard t5s had lights for blooming stage as well and will consume considerably less electricity. 

What are the positives and the negatives for a T5 and HPS?

Thanks in Advance.


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## Outta Spacehigh Spaghetti (Mar 8, 2011)

Do you know if those 0.6 bulbs nvm. I need to get a place to grow
Im thinking colorado but I dont know.
I dont even got a computer to use, this one isnt mine. Thats why I cant really get my grow set up. My parents found the grow I had set up in a hallowed out dresser. Thats because they got a key to my room because the fuck head cops gave her my keys. They where supposed to just give her the key to the car. O well, cant cry over spilt milk, I never would have made much money with it the way it was. Full of nasty ass dirt that well had pretty much every possible thing in it except what should have been in it. So I got all that cleaned out now but still cannot grow there because I have no motivation to grow there anymore. Im now thinking about growing outdoors on a near by indian reservation. Ive already driven threw it a few times and got a pretty good feeling about where I can get some water. The grow area is going to be super high tech camoflagued so that I only have to worry about traps. Traps will be things like electric fence and shit. Ive been thinking about rigging explosives to some of the ones that I got hanging on trees in my mind. Its just an idea forming in my mind for if I discover that there is a lackey in the area. Unfortunately for one thing is that I do live in ND. If only I could live somewhere like columbia, and just have my own farm. Even buy an island like Hawii, and just grow my crops there and ship it out to where evers esyest. Shit I dont know how to spell. Got to learn how to live with it I guess, not like Ill be living much longer. I treat my health so bad that I got to pop. drink pop. god I dont know what my mind is doing here, Im supposed to be talking about how I am saving up money to buy an Ipad2 so that I can have my own computer so that I dont have to worry about the shit that Im s


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## spoad (Mar 10, 2011)

Will yeild be less if you put seed into 12/12 from the start,just wondering as ive done this with a blue mystic,she seems to be just growing as well as she would under 18/6,she is about 3 weeks old and she is already 12inch,just want to no if my yeild is gonna be affected by this,thanks and peace out!!!!!!


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## Brick Top (Mar 20, 2011)

dokebi said:


> What are the positives and the negatives for a T5 and HPS?


That is sort of a broad and vague question. It leaves out a HID light with a switchable ballast that could use a 6500K or 7200K MH bulb for vegging besides a HPS for flowering and it does not mention the possibility of using a HPS bulb with an enhanced blue spectrum during flower and it does not mention the wattage of the HPS you want a comparison to. 

Unless you are talking about a low wattage HID light you will get a whole heck of a lot more light penetration from a HID light than from a T5.


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## vic smush (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks for the post. I firmly belive that lighting is one of the most important things to get dialed in one in a new grow op.


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## dannyboy602 (Apr 12, 2011)

I like to veg my plants in t5's for a month then flip them. 1000W HPS takes them right up until harvest. 
It's cheaper and it produces great results
Four wks veg time then as many wks flowering time as they need.


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## koda (May 8, 2011)

I just got my first 3 germinated and they're about 2'' tall... What temp should it be around my babies? Last night before bed it was 75f , when i got up and checked on them this morning it was 86f but i had a 6'' fan blowing a light breeze around them. Being my first grow that temp worried me because they looked { not wilted but a little droopy}. I really got more light then i need,, i have a new 400watt hps and a new 400 watt mh light that i wanted to try out, so i been burning both and have had to keep them about 4ft. above the plants so not to over heat em.


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## mr.sensiman420 (May 21, 2011)

im on my first grow and ive got 14 plants; 6 under one 150W HPS and 8 under another one. they are all on a 18/6 light schedual. about a month old range from like 8-10 inches tall each amd very bushy. most of the stunted growth was just cause from topping. actually FIMmed one of them lol  you dont need any super special lights if you know what youre doing.


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## VanishingToaster (May 23, 2011)

i've currently got not much more than seedlings, first 4 individual leaves and have only got a couple of day-glo bulbs at the moment, they use 25W but put out the equivalent of 150W each. i'm waiting on a 2ft 24W CFL 6400k striplight thing arriving. its my first full grow, just using the spare bedroom. i'm not using traditional lights, my striplight is coming from jungleseeds.com (friend of a friend suggested it) i think i'm just a bit worried for my babies, couple of questions, is it enough light for a half decent veg state? goin to be buying the blue spec light and reflector for the flowering stage. my other question is can u have too much light in a room and what sort of side effects would you get from too much and not enough light? the seedlings are growing fine at the moment, slightly stretched stems and a slightly bigger root system due to my foolish watering system earlier. i'm learning quickly lol


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## VanishingToaster (May 23, 2011)

koda said:


> I just got my first 3 germinated and they're about 2'' tall... What temp should it be around my babies? Last night before bed it was 75f , when i got up and checked on them this morning it was 86f but i had a 6'' fan blowing a light breeze around them. Being my first grow that temp worried me because they looked { not wilted but a little droopy}. I really got more light then i need,, i have a new 400watt hps and a new 400 watt mh light that i wanted to try out, so i been burning both and have had to keep them about 4ft. above the plants so not to over heat em.


should be between 20-25'C


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## BigGMoney (May 27, 2011)

koda said:


> I just got my first 3 germinated and they're about 2'' tall... What temp should it be around my babies? Last night before bed it was 75f , when i got up and checked on them this morning it was 86f but i had a 6'' fan blowing a light breeze around them. Being my first grow that temp worried me because they looked { not wilted but a little droopy}. I really got more light then i need,, i have a new 400watt hps and a new 400 watt mh light that i wanted to try out, so i been burning both and have had to keep them about 4ft. above the plants so not to over heat em.


Ventilation is key, especially if you are in a small area. Make sure you get cold air in, and get that hot air out. A small intake fan should do the trick, if placed in the right spot- just experiment with it.

I used a $10 vent fan for aircon ducting...not so strong, but kept my temps down enough.


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## Ryan0092 (May 30, 2011)

got a question for anybody willing to answer, I have two 150 watt hps running for 5 plants in a 2 metre square space is this enough light to produce an decent yield?


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## Inthecloset68 (Jun 17, 2011)

VanishingToaster said:


> i've currently got not much more than seedlings, first 4 individual leaves and have only got a couple of day-glo bulbs at the moment, they use 25W but put out the equivalent of 150W each. i'm waiting on a 2ft 24W CFL 6400k striplight thing arriving. its my first full grow, just using the spare bedroom. i'm not using traditional lights, my striplight is coming from jungleseeds.com (friend of a friend suggested it) i think i'm just a bit worried for my babies, couple of questions, is it enough light for a half decent veg state? goin to be buying the blue spec light and reflector for the flowering stage. my other question is can u have too much light in a room and what sort of side effects would you get from too much and not enough light? the seedlings are growing fine at the moment, slightly stretched stems and a slightly bigger root system due to my foolish watering system earlier. i'm learning quickly lol


For flowering you are going to want a red spectrum light like HPS or 2700K CFL. Blue spec like MH or 6500K CFL are better for vegging.


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## TwiZteDF8 (Jun 26, 2011)

I agree with BCENVY don't steal lights from construction sites. That is just stupid and highly illegal and if you did that around here you'd probably never be heard from again. Remember what goes around comes around! 

Karma is a bitch!


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## IndiansWad (Jun 28, 2011)

I think I've wasted a lot of good seeds. I did not allow them to germinate enough and I threw them in the soil under a 400 watt Mh, that was to close to my green house. I moved it farther away later on in the day. Anyway, the next day I switched to this light that I bought http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lights-of-America-24-Fluorescent-Grow-Light-Fixture/16879945 for like 10 bucks. From what I have read these "grow lights" are garbage? So from what I am reading on here I need the cool white cfls or I need some kind of t5 light? Is the flourescent light I'm running now good for anything at all? I have 9 seeds under the soil right now the last 3 days, I don't think many of them will make it. Should I buy another 10 dollar light or do I need those cfls? I already have the mh and hps for the later stages, I just need to have enough for these seedlings. Also this grow light I am running has plastic cover over it blocking direct exposure from the bulb, should I remove it? Thank you guys, its been stressful.


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## IndiansWad (Jun 28, 2011)

Which of these from walmart do i need? http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=t5+light+bulbs&ic=48_0&Find=Find&search_constraint=4044 
I've been reading on here all day and I am still confused. What lights should I add to my 24 inch flourescent light for the seeding stage thats lets off 1000 lumens, possibly into some of the vegetation stage? I just need enough to get them to sprout and grow for a short time before going to mh and hps. I think I've pretty much wasted my seeds, I tried so hard too. I don't want to buy any more flourescent lights if they are no good.


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## IndiansWad (Jun 28, 2011)

Can anyone tell me if any of these would be good? Maybe something like this daylight 32 watt t8 bulb. http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-4-Daylight-Fluorescent-Light/16880855 If anyone can give me any kind of confidence boost in what I'm doing it would be appreciated. I would like to get by without having to use the 400 watt metal halide for as long as possible. Right now my cups of dirt are getting 1000 lumens at 4200k color. I would like to go up to Walmart but I just dont know what to buy.


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## BigStalk (Jul 2, 2011)

Great thread


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## born2killspam (Jul 4, 2011)

IndiansWad said:


> Can anyone tell me if any of these would be good? Maybe something like this daylight 32 watt t8 bulb. http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-4-Daylight-Fluorescent-Light/16880855 If anyone can give me any kind of confidence boost in what I'm doing it would be appreciated. I would like to get by without having to use the 400 watt metal halide for as long as possible. Right now my cups of dirt are getting 1000 lumens at 4200k color. I would like to go up to Walmart but I just dont know what to buy.


You'll get waay better results over-all if you grab the phone book, and look in electrical, or lighting section of the Y Pages, and ask if they carry 175W MH or HPS ballasts.. If they do, then they'll also carry sockets and bulbs.. You can get a kick-ass light from places where contractors would go to buy stuff for about $50 total and your results will be MUCH better..


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## kristo92 (Jul 6, 2011)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


Well said, well said


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## CanadianDank (Jul 9, 2011)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


should take that cover off its dissipating the light


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## born2killspam (Jul 23, 2011)

Actually you should just go to the places those construction ppl buy those lights from, and buy your own hid legit.. It's much worth it in most NA jurisdictions!.. These places are typically in the YP under 'lighting' or 'electrical' (Im loyal to Westburne because of the company's fair dealings with Tesla).. You'll pay 25% of what you'd pay from a hydro store.. Don't get caught up in specialty bulbs if you don't want to.. Any hid is gonna be 10x as proctuctive as any flouro and the specialty bulbs might give you a 3% PAR bonus beyond that..) Basically if you can wire electrical connections well enough, and understand wire demands on inductive loads, and figure out a reflector solution, then you can save alot of money.. (BTW High-bay refectors typically used in commercial lighting can make kick-ass! refectors for a small area..)


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## Smoking Diva (Jul 24, 2011)

sorry guys, using a 550 watt light and growlab 120L just harvested 27 plants and only yeilded 9 oz... what is the problem??? how can i yeild atleast 16? please help!!!! dont wanna waste anymore of my precious time. This is just my second grow and feel like its taking forever to accomplish anything.


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## dbaile2 (Jul 28, 2011)

very informative post..thanks for the information bruh


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## Brittanybrutal (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi, lol so my boyfreind needs some help and you'd seem like the guy to go to. 
Well, he wants to grow some in his closet, but he's not sure what light bulbs to use and how many watts, and where to get them.
Could you help?


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## loophole68 (Aug 12, 2011)

thank goodness i didnt buy a some lights, until I took it to the counter didnt know they were oven lamps xD xD...Nice thread....


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## thelatenightpoet (Aug 22, 2011)

I need some info on if running a red and blue 13 watt incandesent bulb is good or not. running blue right now 24/7 for a lil over a week/ accidently left my red light on w/ the blue overnight. created my own hood. have a lamp that has a option on what lights i want run just by turning the knob.
any help info is good info.

POet


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## mrshawnw (Aug 22, 2011)

Okay Guys, i gotta fairly simple question. I've got a plant, its nearly up to my knee, although its august, and its slowly getting cold. I'm fearful off the plant dying after all that hard work. (i forgot to mention i started a little late this year its my first time) and i bought a growing light for tomatoes(i assume it will work for any plant) but my question is, that if i bring it in from the outdoors (its already in a pot) and start using the plant light, will it affect the plant in a negative way?


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## watchhowIdoit (Aug 22, 2011)

thelatenightpoet said:


> I need some info on if running a red and blue 13 watt incandesent bulb is good or not. running blue right now 24/7 for a lil over a week/ accidently left my red light on w/ the blue overnight. created my own hood. have a lamp that has a option on what lights i want run just by turning the knob.
> any help info is good info.
> 
> POet


 They are useless for growing. CFLs are cheap.......


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## watchhowIdoit (Aug 22, 2011)

mrshawnw said:


> Okay Guys, i gotta fairly simple question. I've got a plant, its nearly up to my knee, although its august, and its slowly getting cold. I'm fearful off the plant dying after all that hard work. (i forgot to mention i started a little late this year its my first time) and i bought a growing light for tomatoes(i assume it will work for any plant) but my question is, that if i bring it in from the outdoors (its already in a pot) and start using the plant light, will it affect the plant in a negative way?


Late start or early start outdoors is like comparing 12/12 or a veg for a few weeks indoors. Your plants are in pots so make the most of both worlds. I would take advantage of all the natural light possible and supplement with the artificial....


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## danwxm (Aug 26, 2011)

im using 135 watts of cfl and getting good yields, in soil on tomato feed, get some juicy tomatoes lol


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## UKHG (Aug 27, 2011)

15g of 4 plants??? 1/2 oz that dont seem rite


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## gkawall (Aug 27, 2011)

Hey, i need some help, this is my first time grow. it been growing good untill i noticed that a few of the bottom leaves started to get brown spots on the tips, very small but then as time went on it dried out the leaf and turned it yellow and crackly. The top portion of the plant seems healthy. is this nute burn? or something else. please lemme no so i can do something to fix it asap. Anything helps. Thanks
View attachment 1756673View attachment 1756674View attachment 1756675View attachment 1756676View attachment 1756677View attachment 1756678View attachment 1756679View attachment 1756680View attachment 1756681View attachment 1756682
PLEASE HELP ME FIND OUT WHAT´S HAPENING


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## kokonutman (Aug 27, 2011)

if u need to know how to grow then just ask the kokonutman


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## ILoveKaya (Aug 28, 2011)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


Word Up BC Envy....
I am a GC in Mass. The d-bags that steal from hardworking guys dont realize they are not stealing from Walmart or Sears. We pay for our own tools and most of them are NECESSARY for us to do our jobs so you f*ckfaces have a place to live, smoke weed and play x-box on MyFace. Your taking food from my kids mouths and if you were caught be me or my fellow contractors, you better have wished the police busted you instead!!


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## zip (Sep 6, 2011)

I had my lights too far away from my plants in flower. Using 400 hps with uncooled reflectors. Will the lowering of the lights fix my semi-stunted plants and get them back on track? they were 3 ft away and are now 18 in away from tops.


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## cam107 (Sep 9, 2011)

this is the best light info i have found to date. i am building my set up now to grow 20 
Super Critical Haze i am using hps lights and have workt out from your graphs that i will need 3000 luminoms per plant * 20= 60000. so how menny wats is that all togever?


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## GanjaGod420000 (Sep 12, 2011)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


I'm journeyman union electrician and I would disadvise anyone from doing such a nutsackish act. The things are NOT that expensive and ANY local lighting equipment retailer will have a 400W MH ballast kit for about $85 + the cost of a lamp, about $35. Jeez, get a job and quit stealin' b4 a giant, angry electrician catches you one day. Although, I have to admit, that on service calls and jobs past, when I ordered material, I have added one or two ballast kits and lamps extra. An excellant way to acquire sum bad ass lighting for your gardening needs! Peace.


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## GanjaGod420000 (Sep 12, 2011)

I absolutely agree guyz. I'm a journeyman union electrician and have beat wholesale ass for catching crackheaded dips**ts taking MY lights! If ANYBODY's gonna end up taking an extra bygod fixture and lamp, then that's gonna be me! I mean, my Lord, a 400W MH ballast kit runs about $85 and corresponding lamp, $20-$35, depending on quality. 400W HPS kit, a c**thair over a hundred bucks, lamps, the same as previously listed for MH. So, WAKE UP out there dips**ts! Don't get beaten so badly that you'll REALLY NEED to get stoned, 'cause after a job-seasoned, oft-times x-military(like myself), hard-ass, fearless construction worker gets his(or her) hands around your neck, you'll be in need of much more than weed, starting with suchures and morphine, probably.....


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## GanjaGod420000 (Sep 12, 2011)

gkawall said:


> Hey, i need some help, this is my first time grow. it been growing good untill i noticed that a few of the bottom leaves started to get brown spots on the tips, very small but then as time went on it dried out the leaf and turned it yellow and crackly. The top portion of the plant seems healthy. is this nute burn? or something else. please lemme no so i can do something to fix it asap. Anything helps. Thanks
> View attachment 1756673View attachment 1756674View attachment 1756675View attachment 1756676View attachment 1756677View attachment 1756678View attachment 1756679View attachment 1756680View attachment 1756681View attachment 1756682
> PLEASE HELP ME FIND OUT WHAT´S HAPENING


Um, to start with, what kind of lighting are you using? Your internodal spacing looks to me like you have whatever light source WAY too high above your plants. Those are going to be way too tall and not nearly bushy enough. Lower your lights and just make sure your canopy temp isn't above 75 or 80 degrees at the highest. And yes, it looks like a nute burn to me. You need to flush with at least a gallon or two of water, slowly and easily, and STOP giving the young seedlings anything, but attention and POSSIBLY a bit of diluted, very diluted, liquid seaweed. And when a leaf is over 50% blown out, like a few of yours are, snip them off to allow the plant to re-direct it's efforts to other areas that are not f'd up. If you do this, I feel confident you will probably thank me.


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## GanjaGod420000 (Sep 12, 2011)

And gkwall, as a seasoned grower, might I suggest that you invest in Jorge Cervantes Marijuana Horticulture Bible to guide you along with basic, but crucial steps in your new-found hobby, as well as bone-up on some soil mix recipes, ones that you might consider carefully transplanting your crop into. Personally, I use 5-gallon buckets, have for years, and the recipe is as follows:About 75%, (NOT MIRACLE GRO!!!), organic 3B mix, (that's potting soil), 10% perlite, 5% worm castings, 10% spangum peat moss, 5% bat guano(not really necessary until flowering, but I do it anyways), and that's it man, U may want to dilute sum liquid seaweed and fish emulsion, and pour A LITTLE BIT into that, and if you can swing it, some bone and or blood meal won't hurt in that recipe as well.


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## brendan007 (Sep 13, 2011)

has anyone got any experience with led lights?thanx


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## travelfar (Sep 30, 2011)

As seasoned growers, you can probably help with a basic question as I prepare to start myself. I have a 4'x4'x7' grow tent and a 600 watt HID light and am thinking of adding another 600 watt HID light. To provide cooling and ventilation, I have a 440cfm exhaust fan. I want to know if there is any such thing as too much light?


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## califahomegrown (Oct 10, 2011)

is it possible to flower with t5? or are they primarily for veg?


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## wonkavision (Oct 19, 2011)

Couldn't agree more BCENVY


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## StonedYa? (Oct 23, 2011)

While my plant was sleeping during flowering week 6 my lights flashed on and off a few times what is going to be the consequences of this?


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## cbusmike (Oct 31, 2011)

thank u very much this is exactly what i needed i went and got that stupid blue grow light now i know better


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## StonedYa? (Nov 1, 2011)

*I got a Growspot 12w LED 150w equivalent florabloom and vigorus veg. Would it be better to use them together as a full spectrum or use veg then flora? Which would be better?
*


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## Phaeton (Nov 9, 2011)

Too much light and the leaf turns white when the chlorophyll dies, completely different from heat which dries the leaf out and turns it brown.

One or two flashes of light during bud do not usually hurt much, repetition causes hermaphrodite and smaller buds. Some strains are more sensitive than others.

More light up to that bleaching point is better, the fuller the spectrum the better. Red and blue are trigger colors, the plant does not necessarily need only those colors for full time food, just like you cannot live on ice cream by itself.

LED's work great if enough of them can be afforded to cover the entire plant.

T5's will bud also, but again, it takes a lot of them to do it.

The meds are starting to soak in, gonna go do morning chores in the budroom now.


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## neved (Nov 9, 2011)

Hey guys...
Whats your issue on my rooms...
Flowering room


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## HydroSpace (Nov 21, 2011)

*Hey everyone, sorry i posted this in the wrong section of the site the first time.

I have a question for anyone who knows anything about lighting for hydro systems.
im geting a hydro system that's 16" x 24" x 6"
i do not have allot of money to spend on lights at all.
i was just wondering if anyone could help me out with whats the cheapest lights i can/should get
i just wanna make sure i grab everything i need when i go down to the hardware store.





*


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## einsteinus (Nov 26, 2011)

In Response to the post about using LED's to grow with compared to ....They work OK for Veg and they can be very economical however the only one's to use are professional grade high output lamps and you have to be careful and use a higher blue to red lamp ratio for veg and about 3 to 1 red to blue for flowering...also you should mix a few white and yellow one's in some of the panels as these span some of the missing freq's of light....all in all will cost you at least 3X if not even 5X more money in the beginning and you may save and I emphasize MAY becasue the power costs may be lower but I haven't seen enough grows that convince me it's really feasable..I will admit I started that way and still have a 24Watt LED grow panel stuck on my ceiling just for shits and giggles..it's still there but after reading stuff here, growing just about everywhere in the US for the last 35 years under the great one and only sun I took my own advice and went watt crazy with CFL's 5K,3500K,2700K on movable clamps and made multiple fixtures running romex on $1.29 plastic fixtures for some extra canopy boost just screw them into the ceiling screw on a few of them doublers and wa la you got a interchangable CFL canopy/clap system that pick your poison found a 65 Watt 4200 Lumen Homie Depot $16 Lowlies had 13 Watter 5K and 2.7K for a buck each hell with 40 little fixtures hanging out you can get some light to your plants including the sides.......of course I chickened out after reading and again and doing some more thinking and made sure all those CFL's are basically surrounding the HPS systems I found on amazingzon for $99 400 Watts -- as I have always said .. just listen to your plants --- they will tell you if it looks like the sun and feels like the sun then them buds will look like they have been grown under the sun---


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## einsteinus (Nov 26, 2011)

Lowes had some 5K 13 watters and some 2.7K 13 watters for $1 each get as many of those as you can afford need more 5K in the first 1-3 months and more 2.7 K from trigger to finish would not hurt if you could fit a $99 HPS 400 watter in there would make life easy


HydroSpace said:


> *Hey everyone, sorry i posted this in the wrong section of the site the first time.
> 
> I have a question for anyone who knows anything about lighting for hydro systems.
> im geting a hydro system that's 16" x 24" x 6"
> ...


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## einsteinus (Nov 27, 2011)

It may blow up ...or ...like mine it might be universal and work...if you do decide to try this make sure you video tape it for a possible UTube showing if it ends up funny!


Lanshayol said:


> I have a 400w MH ballast system .
> 
> I am just curious .. if I were to buy a 400w HPS sodium bulb and hook it to this same ballast , could that cause a problem ?


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## morrisman (Nov 27, 2011)

yes ineed very good post


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## jerrytim (Dec 11, 2011)

I am new at this site. I found this site very interesting. I am very happy to join this forum. I like it.


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## datdude11 (Dec 13, 2011)

ok i have a huge dilema here i want to grow ONE marijuana plant in a 23 inch wide and 21 inch tall growroom as far as keeping the plant small i hve it covered and watering and ventilation are not a problem but lighting is a huge problem any suggestions of what lights i can use my budgets $40 or less thanks


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## potpimp (Dec 14, 2011)

datdude11 said:


> ok i have a huge dilema here i want to grow ONE marijuana plant in a 23 inch wide and 21 inch tall growroom as far as keeping the plant small i hve it covered and watering and ventilation are not a problem but lighting is a huge problem any suggestions of what lights i can use my budgets $40 or less thanks


see if you can find a small T5 setup within your budget.


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## full of purple (Dec 14, 2011)

With one plant get atleast 4-8 23w or 42w cfls and a couple cumputer fans 3 of them 1 intake 1 outtake and one hanging to strenthen the stem


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## datdude11 (Dec 15, 2011)

thanks ill look up that T5 hopefully i can start growing that purple kush really soon


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## datdude11 (Dec 15, 2011)

ok so i looked up the T5 and it doesnt seem bright enough would it be smart to intall one of these cfls with a reflector

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Light-Bulbs-CFL-Light-Bulbs/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbmat/R-100676712/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053




http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100664506&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&MERCH=REC-_-search-2-_-NA-_-100664506-_-N&locStoreNum=589

should i use two or one and is it ok two put them in a high corner or should i figure out a way to center it


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## potpimp (Dec 15, 2011)

It's not altogether the brightness (lumens) that is important; another important consideration is the wavelength of the light. T5's give you the correct wavelength of light that your plants need - but you have to get the right bulbs, not "daylight" or "soft white" bulbs.


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## reeferman93 (Dec 16, 2011)

things to know about lighting check spectrum and lumens as far as lumens u want to try to have as close to 4500 as possible per square meter to try and match the suns intensity because the sun even at its weekest times emits almost 5k and spectrum its proven canabi consumes more of the red and blue spectrum blue having a wave length of 400-475 nm and red 620-675 nm check your bulbs and do good and have healthy crops http://hightimes.com/lightingpart1 there is u a link for more imformation and comformation of my imfo


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## datdude11 (Dec 16, 2011)

but i thought soft white was good for flowering and im only growing in veg stage for about a week because im so limited on space and i cant get my hands on any lowryder seeds


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## thegersman (Dec 19, 2011)

I've read through the sticky's but I was born in the 1950's so you see I just need some RIU family to give me their quick experience and knowledge prior to making a "bucket list" 

So I'm kinda reading that HPS grow will make better???/harder??? buds...

I am doing my first *prefab tent* grow, but nuckle head me thought I had the MH in the wing from last grow.

So... being color blind , I never had a clue I was really using my HPS, HONESTLY.

I did 24/7 for about 1-2 months, then flipped to 12/12 on November 22. 

So far, my grow is doing well:

 

What can I expect after I chop in 2012 ??????????????????

Thanks !!


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## JamCE (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks for the nice read!


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## thegersman (Jan 1, 2012)

JamCE said:


> Thanks for the nice read!


No problem


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## specialk2 (Jan 3, 2012)

We are thinking about running a complete cycle with the Hortilux Blue bulbs... from start to finish, the spectrum on the Blues are unlike any others I have seen out there. Price will eat you up though.


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## townbizz510 (Jan 3, 2012)

Great Post


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## mrmtt3 (Jan 5, 2012)

LocoMonkey said:


> Does anyone know where you can buy these in the US?


It's so simple. Use google!! Google can answer all your queries. Lolzzz


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## Arsin225 (Jan 10, 2012)

Is it a bad idea to start off with a MH 400W?

It being 35cm away, in the x axis and 5cm in the y axis

No lid, but the tub is coated flat white. There's no reflector on the lamp, however it's in the tub with the plant. Currently day 3


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## forgetfulpenguin (Jan 10, 2012)

Arsin225 said:


> Is it a bad idea to start off with a MH 400W?


Personally I would go with an HPS if I could only get one bulb but you should be able to give growing a shot if you are stuck with MH throughout the grow.

I'm not sure how big your grow area is so I'm not sure how appropriate a 400w bulb will be but again you should be able to get off the ground with a 400w (my first HID was a 400w HPS.)


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## Arsin225 (Jan 10, 2012)

forgetfulpenguin said:


> Personally I would go with an HPS if I could only get one bulb but you should be able to give growing a shot if you are stuck with MH throughout the grow.
> 
> I'm not sure how big your grow area is so I'm not sure how appropriate a 400w bulb will be but again you should be able to get off the ground with a 400w (my first HID was a 400w HPS.)


18L double tub , I have a HPS ready to go, just waiting till I want to go 12/12. I'm currently using one tub, no lid just because I feel like the plant at this stage doesn't need that much light hitting it, unless that's false in which case I'll put the reflector on tomorrow


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## Undercover Cop (Jan 10, 2012)

T5... (8 bulb for veg and two 4 bulbs for side lighting w 400w HPS for flower)
 

 
day 28

yes, they are bright enough and with the right tubes are FAR more efficient than HID for the amount of PAR light. HID lights can put out 150k+ lumens, but a huge chunk of the output spectrum is (mostly) wasted in the green/yellow/orange region (those wavelengths are used, just less efficiently. HID's put out so much light that plants are able to scrounge what they need from whats available). If you get the correct spectrum and assortment of bulbs you can take on any HID system going watt for watt. potency can be increased when using bulbs with UVb output which results in more resin content. Put an 8 bulb T5 array against a 400w HPS... or 20 T5's vs a 1kHPS. T5 will match the yield and beat the potency vs HPS. (Yes you can get a cheap ass chinese ballast and 1kHPS fixture for cheap, and Yes you will spend a fortune on the specialty bulbs, but for some the low heat T5's are the only option)
In sumary, YES T5's will work, and work well when done right.


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## overTHEman (Jan 13, 2012)

Good thread,

I'll second the vote for PAR T5s.


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## Diamonds (Jan 20, 2012)

Just a quick question about lights. I have a closet and I only want to do 2 plants at a time. I have a 250watt HPS light and I just want to be sure that's enough for both plants.


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## Undercover Cop (Jan 21, 2012)

Diamonds said:


> Just a quick question about lights. I have a closet and I only want to do 2 plants at a time. I have a 250watt HPS light and I just want to be sure that's enough for both plants.



You'll be fine as long as you have a decent reflector that has a wide enough throw to cover both the tops, you could prob keep it about 12" above the tops, which might be a little close to give good coverage for two, but if you lift it higher for better spread, you'll lose some of the light's intensity. 12-16" should be fine for good coverage of both. Dont worry you'll be ok. I used to have two 150w bulbs placed about 1ft apart and they covered a 3x3 closet with 5-6 plants. a 250w could cover 4 plants in a 2x2 pattern pretty well. your 2 could get a good size and be just fine


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## Blazin420Girl (Jan 24, 2012)

Great thread. Lots of good info. I'm starting a indoor grow soon and am looking to grow 4-6 plants and appreciate any lighting advice. Never grew b4 but very exited and inspired by the success of riu members. I hope to buy a grow tent or I intend to used a 3'x4' closet I have n my basement.


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## Undercover Cop (Jan 24, 2012)

Blazin420Girl said:


> Great thread. Lots of good info. I'm starting a indoor grow soon and am looking to grow 4-6 plants and appreciate any lighting advice. Never grew b4 but very exited and inspired by the success of riu members. I hope to buy a grow tent or I intend to used a 3'x4' closet I have n my basement.


Honestly for the value, I would get a $150 Radiion 8 bulb T5 (ebay/growzebo), then you dont have to worry about elaborate ventilation systems to deal with the heat from HID. You can slowly upgrade the bulbs as you go, and the bulbs that come with will do fine. will fit in any 4x2' area. would be the perfect size for 4 plants. IMHO


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## dmj1369 (Jan 24, 2012)

good stuff


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## swtor122 (Feb 14, 2012)

anybody know about the Lamp emitting principle&#12290;


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## NewH2gro (Feb 17, 2012)

Hey guys, thank you for all the input. I'm about 2 1/2 weeks into veg on 18/6 lighting schedule. Growth is not fast enough for my liking. Does anyone know of any possible negative side effects from increasing to 20 or 22 hours of light for a week or two, then flowering? Or would this be fine for them. I'm obviously a newb  I would like to leave them some dark time since they are already use to it. Thanks in advance for any guidance.


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## Undercover Cop (Feb 17, 2012)

If anyone is reading though this thread and is kinda new and havent really got a full grasp on the whole idea behind PAR specific Fluoros, I just spend about 4 hours total on 3 posts in the Club T5 thread for someone new who is starting off and was asking about bulb choice. Basically broke down most of the basics for newbies, explaining phosphors and PAR and all that. If someone is new and cruising through, and needs a beginners course before going all in on T5's, check out these posts on the Club T5 thread. I didnt want to just Copy/Paste it all here cuz its sooo long.

Anyway, T5 and PAR growing for beginners... (was in response to others questions so they're adressing them)






Originally Posted by *Undercover Cop*  
post #1






Originally Posted by *Undercover Cop*  
post #2






Originally Posted by *Undercover Cop*  
post #3


Anyone that wants more pretty pictures, follow my thread/sig


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## Brother Numsi (Apr 8, 2012)

I didn't see much posted about using big CFL like 200w or 250w CFL with reflectors. I'm planning my 1st grow and was considering using quite a few of the big bulbs. I'm planning on 4 plants and have a 7X7 closet. I figure 10-12 big lights with good ventilation. I'll switch bulbs for veg and flower. Any suggestions yea or nay?
Thanks.


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## ActionHanks (Apr 10, 2012)

Brother Numsi said:


> I didn't see much posted about using big CFL like 200w or 250w CFL with reflectors. I'm planning my 1st grow and was considering using quite a few of the big bulbs. I'm planning on 4 plants and have a 7X7 closet. I figure 10-12 big lights with good ventilation. I'll switch bulbs for veg and flower. Any suggestions yea or nay?
> Thanks.


Yeah go the HPS route. Now im all about CFL lighting, dont get me wrong; but im also all about dat micro/stealth grow. CFLS are nice for small grows because they are COMPACT florescent lighting. 4 plants in a 7x7? I would consider 400 or 600 watt HPS, its just going to do a better job. Also, while you might think that CFLs will knock out heat problems adding 10-12 is going to make some heat, and air cooling 1 400/600 watt bulb, will be way easier then cooling 10 125w.


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## Milovan (Apr 10, 2012)

Undercover Cop said:


> If anyone is reading though this thread and is kinda new and havent really got a full grasp on the whole idea behind PAR specific Fluoros, I just spend about 4 hours total on 3 posts in the Club T5 thread for someone new who is starting off and was asking about bulb choice. Basically broke down most of the basics for newbies, explaining phosphors and PAR and all that. If someone is new and cruising through, and needs a beginners course before going all in on T5's, check out these posts on the Club T5 thread. I didnt want to just Copy/Paste it all here cuz its sooo long.
> 
> Anyway, T5 and PAR growing for beginners... (was in response to others questions so they're adressing them)
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for taking the time out to post on lighting.
You are just too cool!


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## elija.wattson (May 3, 2012)

spots, particularly high locations, like trees and buildings. The Empire State Building is struck by lightning on average 23 times each year, and was once struck 8 times in 24 minutes. Actually, most lightning strikes are made up of multiple individual strokes, meaning that what we see as a pulsating lightning actually consists of three or four different strokes following the same pathway.
In fact, lightning favors certain


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## Undercover Cop (May 4, 2012)

What the fuck was the point of that?.....


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## Badmf (Jun 27, 2012)

Bad Karma to steal and a close friend of mine is a security guard at various sites and would love to "shoot first and not ask any questions later" hk.40 cal in ya behind or... don't do it, sugessting theft is close to being a ripper imo, I will block your posts in future.


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## ultravioletking (Jul 15, 2012)

Wow ya cheap bastids 30 bucks can get soil nutes lighti.g wire and pots... 16 on the 55w ge cfl 5 on some soil 5 for the wire and 4 or 5 on some cheap furts come on now... We shouldnt piss with karma cuz you take the light and she not only Burman ur stash but ur house too


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## Joshue (Jul 20, 2012)

I appreciate the time that you partake on sharing all this stuff and also for the information. It was really of a great value and based on facts.


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## Sunburned2 (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm with you on that brother.. as a remodeling contractor and someone with an interest in this site.. I say don't give the establishment any more reason than they already have to label marijuana users as low life drug addicts and thieves.. We are finally starting to get the message across to mainstream that pot smoking should be legal..and even cures diseases like cancer.. (thanks to Ron Paul and his supporters).. If you do decide to steal.. just think beforehand what a group of 200 pound men who lift kitchen cabinetry out of trucks all day could do to convince you that stealing is wrong... Not a pleasant picture...


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## Sunburned2 (Aug 27, 2012)

8 hours??? 5 days a week??? who?? where??


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## BOSStonn (Oct 1, 2012)

must agree w BCENVY, stealing is wrong and if i caught you stealing from my site... feel good about urself and go buy one. Homedepot and lowes have started selling HPS and MH for short $


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## Imhereforthedope. (Oct 15, 2012)

dudes a cop guys i know him b careful


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## Pablito113 (Oct 17, 2012)

This will help your karma immensly and lessen the possibility of ever getting busted for anything. Being a thief isn't just for banks and oil companies any more!!!!


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## WhiteSancho (Oct 25, 2012)

Illegal activities are bad mmkay?
But lumens are measured for our eyes not plants, like the beginning of this thread said. but then does plant growth lumen (PGL) only apply to water-based plants?


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## D1G1TALD3ATH (Oct 30, 2012)

interesting info. anyone think one would see a boost if using hps but adding blue leds then red leds during the life cycle?


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## rere (Nov 16, 2012)

Amen to that brother!


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## better2beunknown (Dec 1, 2012)

Good write up thanks for info


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## Young Contemporary Peter (Dec 15, 2012)

Any help? This is my current grow, last post on page 4 is what it looks like currently. Help?  

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/593739-cfls-week-2-3-2-a-5.html


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## Young Contemporary Peter (Dec 15, 2012)

What bulb for veg, what bulb for flowering? MH or HPS?


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## htid welshy (Dec 28, 2012)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


Agreed, but maybe you could let us know where we can get them? like any chain of hardware shop? and what ones are best? The stealing thing is wrong, but instead of blasting people try giving us info so that we can do it without having to steal them? (I'm not having a go so please don't think that) but you surely see my point? P.S, where are you working at the moment?


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 2, 2013)

to the guy above... he DID make another post, u over-looked it.

Is there anything wrong with using a 600 & 1000 on one single surge protector/hi-watt timer/and socket? by themselves too...


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## employedmale (Jan 3, 2013)

If I have a 400 watt ballast and ignighter I have been running a 400 watt MH in, I can switch the bulb to a 400 watt HPS and that's it right?


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 4, 2013)

employedmale said:


> If I have a 400 watt ballast and ignighter I have been running a 400 watt MH in, I can switch the bulb to a 400 watt HPS and that's it right?


ballasts are either one or the other. i have a 1000 mag ballast that is switchable tho. u need that to do it.


----------



## employedmale (Jan 4, 2013)

So it's just a matter of buying the bulb I want?


----------



## poseidonR (Jan 4, 2013)

if i grow 4 plants in 6 square ft. of space with 2 'lights of america' 24" flourescent "grow" lights, and 2 'lights of america' 24" flourescent lights will i be successful?


----------



## employedmale (Jan 5, 2013)

poseidonR said:


> if i grow 4 plants in 6 square ft. of space with 2 'lights of america' 24" flourescent "grow" lights, and 2 'lights of america' 24" flourescent lights will i be successful?


If other conditions are met your plants will grow fine. Your yeild will be low but in my experience flourescent lighting will produce some strong smoke.


----------



## employedmale (Jan 5, 2013)

smellzlikeskunkyum said:


> ballasts are either one or the other. i have a 1000 mag ballast that is switchable tho. u need that to do it.


I went to the grow shop, I see what you are saying smellzlike...
I have been using magnetic ballasts scavaged from gas station lighting for so long, I had no idea they were adjustable, switchable, fucking digital. Jesus, amazing.
Thanks


----------



## OldGrowth420 (Jan 6, 2013)

Micro grows like Dr.budgreengenes grow with cfls are the best!


----------



## awoodward79 (Feb 4, 2013)

Young Contemporary Peter said:


> What bulb for veg, what bulb for flowering? MH or HPS?


MH for veg, HPS for flowering... you really only need a cfl or 2 above em during early growth depending on how many plants you're running


----------



## awoodward79 (Feb 4, 2013)

hey guys ive been planning on ordering a 400w digital electronic ballast along with an hps/mh lamp but last night i stumbled upon a thread and apparently these things kick out a ton of RFI! this freaked me out as i was reading stories of people getting knocks on their door's from cable companies only days later wanting to come in to see what was going on. are there any ways to prevent this? i've read about these clips that snap onto the cables of the ballast but do they even work?


----------



## mokuro (Feb 6, 2013)

where is the topic explaining HPS/MH? I know i read a good topic explaining about them and how many Lumens your plants need (how to calculate lumens), but i cant find anymore

was it deleted?


----------



## The winds of shit (Feb 7, 2013)

Quality Quantity = Quatity Quality


----------



## Ganjagreat91 (Feb 13, 2013)

Used to use cfl now I use mh/hps much better results


----------



## old female hippie (Feb 17, 2013)

Ok, so, what is the difference in a regular HID light and a plant HID light. I have a regular 250 w MH over vegetative growth and another plant 250w over 4 others in veg and cannot tell the difference. But, the plant bulbs cost more. Is there any difference at all?


----------



## Shark Bait (Feb 20, 2013)

any t5 or t8/ t8 overdrived/supercharged users out there? I have a 4 ft by 4 ft veg space that I want to use either t5's or t8's possible even overdriving t8s. Any thoughts?

Peace


----------



## highfirejones (Feb 20, 2013)

http://www.amazon.com/Hang-A-Light-HL400PS-Halide-24-Inch-Temporary/dp/B003T0GB8I/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1361415238&sr=8-6&keywords=wobble+light

anyone no if these are crap or awesome?http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/richmedia/images/cover.gif, it's a 400 watt!, then again you need a reflector but still


----------



## highfirejones (Feb 20, 2013)

$130 with free supersaver shipping!


----------



## Gramaw (Mar 9, 2013)

BCENVY said:


> if you are asking about the plant you posted two pictures of, it appears nothing is wrong with them...they are green and healthy.
> 
> Droopy leaves is usually caused by overwatering....I believe...someone with a bit more experience than my 1 year of growing can confirm or deny this however.


Leaves will also droop when it is nearing time to be watered. The pics posted show healthy plants, I agree, so the OP was doing something right. Wrong place for a discussion on watering, though.


----------



## Gramaw (Mar 9, 2013)

Outta Spacehigh Spaghetti said:


> Do you know if those 0.6 bulbs nvm. I need to get a place to grow
> Im thinking colorado but I dont know.
> I dont even got a computer to use, this one isnt mine. Thats why I cant really get my grow set up. My parents found the grow I had set up in a hallowed out dresser. Thats because they got a key to my room because the fuck head cops gave her my keys. They where supposed to just give her the key to the car. O well, cant cry over spilt milk, I never would have made much money with it the way it was. Full of nasty ass dirt that well had pretty much every possible thing in it except what should have been in it. So I got all that cleaned out now but still cannot grow there because I have no motivation to grow there anymore. Im now thinking about growing outdoors on a near by indian reservation. Ive already driven threw it a few times and got a pretty good feeling about where I can get some water. The grow area is going to be super high tech camoflagued so that I only have to worry about traps. Traps will be things like electric fence and shit. Ive been thinking about rigging explosives to some of the ones that I got hanging on trees in my mind. Its just an idea forming in my mind for if I discover that there is a lackey in the area. Unfortunately for one thing is that I do live in ND. If only I could live somewhere like columbia, and just have my own farm. Even buy an island like Hawii, and just grow my crops there and ship it out to where evers esyest. Shit I dont know how to spell. Got to learn how to live with it I guess, not like Ill be living much longer. I treat my health so bad that I got to pop. drink pop. god I dont know what my mind is doing here, Im supposed to be talking about how I am saving up money to buy an Ipad2 so that I can have my own computer so that I dont have to worry about the shit that Im s


I can't believe no one replied to this post yet! Maybe because everyone figured it was a joke? Certainly a sad statement about the future if this is how kids nowadays actually think. Couldn't let it go without a reply. Sorry for the off-topic comment.


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## Lemon Sour (Mar 24, 2013)

Gramaw said:


> Leaves will also droop when it is nearing time to be watered. The pics posted show healthy plants, I agree, so the OP was doing something right. Wrong place for a discussion on watering, though.


Droopy leaves can also happen if the soil is compact and not airy enough. Peat has a tendency to do this if not properly broken up with perlite, coco, or other good stuff.


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## big.MF.mike (Mar 29, 2013)

has anyone ever heard of a brand called iPower? the have a good deal on amazon for a 400W lighting system. i am trying to start my first grow and im trying to find inexpensive equipment that doesn't sacrifice quality
http://www.amazon.com/iPower-GLSETX400DHMWING-400-Watt-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B005DO30MI/ref=pd_sbs_indust_2


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## Know One (May 9, 2013)

I have read that you can switch out 1000w MH bulb with 1000w HPS bulb without having to switch HPS ballast, however, I purchased the dimmable HPS light and ballast and would like to use MH bulb dimmed to 600 while in veg, and switch back to 1000w HPS bulb for flower, without different ballasts. 

Anyone know if this will work without a hitch?
Any help on this is appreciated. 
Sorry if this was already asked and answered.

Here is the light I purchased.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005HB232A/ref=pe_175190_21431760_3p_M3T1_ST1_dp_1


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## thebiglebongski (Jun 10, 2013)

im using a 600 watt MH with a cool tube, im wondering how far to keep it away if I keep the ballast at 100%, right now im at about 3 feet?


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## Javadog (Jun 11, 2013)

I use a hood and go as close as 18" or so with my 600.

Good luck,

JD


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## Kingkudzu (Jul 8, 2013)

Most Pet stores carry CFLs that provide UVB spectrum light. Seems Iquanas (sp?)..the lizard from arid zones. HAVE to have exposure to their skin or they will die. Try a high end pet stores that sells lizards. They should have them...GL bro!


master mioda said:


> How about UVB rays spectrum lights? It is proved UVB increase THC quality and quantity. Neither CFL, MH or HPS are no UVB rays.`


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## Dwizzel82 (Jul 22, 2013)

A good place to look for lighting or any other growing supplies is monstergardens.com.


----------



## kirby7151 (Jul 26, 2013)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


I SECOND THIS! GET A F**king job.... if you cant buy your own shit to grow, then dont do it..... and people wonder why americans are hated EVERYWHERE.. its shit like this, you tell man..


----------



## grasscropper (Sep 10, 2013)

Porro365 said:


> I have just finished my first week flowering. one morning I turned the light on 40mins late and on the last day of the first week 30mins late. Have I F**Ked them.
> 
> PLEASE HELP.....


No they aren't fucked. Get a timer. Set that timer to suit your schedule.


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## smoker4life78 (Sep 12, 2013)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


Stealing? You ever come to my site and steal, I'll shoot you on site!


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## ALHpancyan (Sep 13, 2013)

Yeah never fucking suggest stealing to support anything. We are suppose to be growing pot and be friendly and informative people. Besides with the deals on Amazon on APOLLO horticulture hoods and ballasts that are under 100$ no need to steal. Get a job!

Happy Growing


----------



## BeastGrow (Oct 13, 2013)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.



Nah... I'll leave that to the lowlifes (like this guy named 1stymer)


----------



## chazbolin (Oct 14, 2013)

I've got a 277v circuit laying on that lamp housing which 1stymer will ground out pretty well.


----------



## vegeing (Oct 19, 2013)

Awesome, never saw people explained thing in such detailing, you are amazing!


----------



## Shae4556 (Oct 22, 2013)

Thanks for sharing.


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## big bud 56 (Oct 29, 2013)

where are you shopping for your lights?
they are way cheaper on ebay.
use ebay for all your growing supplies.
You can compare prices for like items and get the best deals.


----------



## messibudgrower (Dec 30, 2013)

I agree

Messi BudGrower


----------



## gsmoke65 (Jan 13, 2014)

,Your not complete write,it measures how intense the light is under these primary colors,and yes these are the best color ,lol,and purple is 1 color and is measured under Kelvin 10k....Solis Tek bulb ,Thanks...


----------



## DouGhtheGrower (Jan 17, 2014)

Can i use a sylvania octron xp 14w 6500k for growing my plants? I want to grow 3 clones.....would they be good enough to grow from seedling to budding? Please let me know


----------



## Shae4556 (Jan 21, 2014)

I also agreed with you ...!


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## flightestman (Jan 25, 2014)

What do you want to know, you need the red light to have the plants make thc in flowering state, so HPS have that red light wave, that why they look orange, but you don't need them when it come to just growing them, so turn that energy into energy the plant can use to grow, then a floresent will do just fine, if you worried about cops seeing your electric bill, but not worried of the price of LED that is way to go, they also will last at least 10 years that if they are on all the time more like 20-30 years they make no heat either to burn your house down when your at home. Although some people say LEDs are not perfect yet and HPS and MH is still the way to go.


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## flightestman (Jan 25, 2014)

buy a book at barns the marijuan bible shows how far away how much luminous what wattage, and a lot of other stuff that will make you a better grower. i think the book is around 18 dollars.


----------



## warren1990 (Jan 26, 2014)

Is it OK to drop wattage from 250 to 175 after 2 weeks in veg? Or are the plants set up to receive that much light? Thanks


----------



## CantGetWrite (Feb 19, 2014)

warren1990 said:


> Is it OK to drop wattage from 250 to 175 after 2 weeks in veg? Or are the plants set up to receive that much light? Thanks


You can drop wattage at any time, but it will slow growth. Think of it as a cloudy day.


----------



## CantGetWrite (Feb 19, 2014)

ALSO NOTE: This thread was started 7 yrs ago people. It's a sticky cause there is good information in it. Look at the date something was posted before responding to a comment from someone that may not even be a member anymore.


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## CantGetWrite (Feb 19, 2014)

DouGhtheGrower said:


> Can i use a sylvania octron xp 14w 6500k for growing my plants? I want to grow 3 clones.....would they be good enough to grow from seedling to budding? Please let me know


Your going to need more wattage than that for good growth. I suggest 60-80w of CFL for only plant and 20-40w for each additional. CFL's lights do not penetrate the canopy as well as HID systems (MH/HPS). If you use multiple low wattage you can box in the plant(s) providing a well distributed light source.

That bulb may be decent for propagation, but most prop bulbs are 24w(2ft) or 48w(4ft).


----------



## TryN (Feb 22, 2014)

CantGetWrite said:


> ALSO NOTE: This thread was started 7 yrs ago people. It's a sticky cause there is good information in it. Look at the date something was posted before responding to a comment from someone that may not even be a member anymore.


Very old but very good thread!


----------



## MMMsticky420 (Feb 23, 2014)

I have 2 ipower 1000watt an 1 600 watt an they work great


----------



## AlphaPhase (Aug 17, 2014)

There's many pages in this thread so forgive me if I missed the answer to this question. 

I've been growing indoor for a while. But this question has always baffled me. 
This pertains to a 1000w hps 

Most people say get the light as close as possible without burning the plant. OK, that's a good answer. But I can usually get the light within 6" without it feeling hot on my hand. Mind you it's air cooled yadda yadda. 

So why is it that every single profession grow I've seen in person and in pictures the lights are about 30" away? What gives? 

Is 2-3 feet per 1000w hps air-cooled optimum? For the most part, even if I can get my 1000w within 8" or so to the plant tops, i always hang it about 12" or above. I'm thinking that's still too close... I wanna know from the people that could go closer with thier lights but don't, and why. Because this simple question that is so basic has been baffling me when I see what other people are doing...


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## tyke1973 (Aug 17, 2014)

just for the shoot,also becuase of the amount of lights some use if your useing say 12 lights in a room you can have them further away,because of the light the plants will receive from other lights in the room.has well has the one over the plants.

A good rule of thumb is once the plants are around 4 weeks into flower higher them a bit this will give you a better ark of light,and far better spread of light to cover the plants better.a bit light a torch beam the further away from the torch the more area it covers but never more than 1 ft 1 1/2 ft after week 4.

hope this helps stay green peace


----------



## AlphaPhase (Aug 17, 2014)

tyke1973 said:


> just for the shoot,also becuase of the amount of lights some use if your useing say 12 lights in a room you can have them further away,because of the light the plants will receive from other lights in the room.has well has the one over the plants.
> 
> A good rule of thumb is once the plants are around 4 weeks into flower higher them a bit this will give you a better ark of light,and far better spread of light to cover the plants better.a bit light a torch beam the further away from the torch the more area it covers but never more than 1 ft 1 1/2 ft after week 4.
> 
> hope this helps stay green peace


Thanks man ! That's exactly what I wanted to know, right on bud! Thanks again


----------



## mike lanza (Aug 28, 2014)

roosterfish said:


> here then is this true............*What is Lumen output of these lamps ? *
> Though given, it is irrelevent ! Lumens are for Humans not plants ! Lumens measure how we see light. Our eyes prefer green light. Green light has the most Lumens, Red and Blue the least. Most fluorescent lamps are made to look bright for humans by adding huge spikes of greeny yellow light.
> Lumens only measure how BRIGHT the light appears to us.
> Lumens cannot measure light useful to plants - *PUR*
> ...


im growing indoors today wanted to know when i first plant the seed can i start out with low lighting first or do i need full power at all times ???


----------



## Rudi I&I Automan (Sep 6, 2014)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...



HERE HERE, My good man.
im not an owner, i do work in the Personal & Private Security sector too. so inbetween festies and personal security work, building site security is delt without the police usualy and with extreme prejudise by some of my fellow team.
there cheap as chips anyway, £40 for a 400 watt light, my bulbes used to cost 4 x that.


----------



## mike lanza (Sep 6, 2014)

mike lanza said:


> im growing indoors today wanted to know when i first plant the seed can i start out with low lighting first or do i need full power at all times ???


THANKS GOOD MON


----------



## Rudi I&I Automan (Sep 7, 2014)

well you can over do it and (ye gads and little fishes), burn them with the heat, but T5's or LED's look to have covered that and ceramic 35watt metal halide display lights, now they may need some space between the plant top and bulb. use the back of your hand to detect the heat of a bulb, or lips with led/cfl's, being able to position the lights so close getting weedlings to bush babies alike. in no time

the use of a sheet of heatproof plastic or glass will stop the heat from burning them when there young.


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Sep 20, 2014)

mike lanza said:


> im growing indoors today wanted to know when i first plant the seed can i start out with low lighting first or do i need full power at all times ???


Full blast from the start for best results(think outdoors ).......IF you can keep your temps in check and aren't concerned about the added electrical costs.

Good luck grower and be safe


----------



## TheBman24 (Sep 21, 2014)

question: new to this for my seedlings and clones i have 125 watt cfl was told because its 6500k i should be keeping that 4-6 feet away because mayharm the little guys if to close is this an accurate statment?


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Sep 21, 2014)

TheBman24 said:


> question: new to this for my seedlings and clones i have 125 watt cfl was told because its 6500k i should be keeping that 4-6 feet away because mayharm the little guys if to close is this an accurate statment?


Way too far for a 125w cfl....12-16 inches is around where you want to be for seedlings. Always do a hand check to see if it may be too warm for your specific environment...

Good luck grower


----------



## mike lanza (Sep 21, 2014)

i noticed on my plant its about 3 inches i put it in my closet grow im using 2 26wt cfls in a reflection round alum, have a fan blowing on them...the leaves seem like unhealthy anyone know why the cfl is about 6 in away from plant...


----------



## mike lanza (Sep 21, 2014)

mike lanza said:


> i noticed on my plant its about 3 inches i put it in my closet grow im using 2 26wt cfls in a reflection round alum, have a fan blowing on them...the leaves seem like unhealthy anyone know why the cfl is about 6 in away from plant...


i first started it out doors for about a week and then after i put them indoor seem too grow real slow outdoors...it grew 3 inc in 3 weeks something not right


----------



## TheBman24 (Sep 21, 2014)

PSUAGRO. said:


> Way too far for a 125w cfl....12-16 inches is around where you want to be for seedlings. Always do a hand check to see if it may be too warm for your specific environment...
> 
> Good luck grower


Thanks brotha much appreciated


----------



## TheBman24 (Sep 21, 2014)

I know this is a lighting forum butisince already here ddoes anybody have any seed banks they suggest and the best way to go about it if living in the US


----------



## mike lanza (Sep 21, 2014)

TheBman24 said:


> I know this is a lighting forum butisince already here ddoes anybody have any seed banks they suggest and the best way to go about it if living in the US


yea attitude seeds the best


----------



## mike lanza (Sep 21, 2014)

mike lanza said:


> yea attitude seeds the best


u can pick n mix also get some free seeds out of it too i bought 3 seeds got 1 free sweet cheese seed


----------



## TheBman24 (Sep 21, 2014)

mike lanza said:


> u can pick n mix also get some free seeds out of it too i bought 3 seeds got 1 free sweet cheese seed


I read a lot.of different posts about attitude with a lot of people saying they've been robbed by them but sounds like you've had good experience?


----------



## mike lanza (Sep 21, 2014)

TheBman24 said:


> I read a lot.of different posts about attitude with a lot of people saying they've been robbed by them but sounds like you've had good experience?


sure have nothing but the best


----------



## Lupiuz (Oct 16, 2014)

Thanks for the info!


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## Hotshot123 (Jan 25, 2015)

roosterfish said:


> ive just changed to 250 wats of them nlite cfls red and perple wud love to know if anyone cud fill me in on any ifo about um


 I use 250 watts, my self, pull 6 oz of Critial Mass last grow. Growing Nitro Lemon Haze now, first week of Flower grow now. I have added 9 more sockets for LED'S


----------



## Hotshot123 (Jan 25, 2015)

vince420 said:


> is this a plants leafs droopy beacuse to much heat? whats wrong with it?


Doesn't look like heat, they go to sleep when lights out, and just before.


----------



## MartaStuart (Feb 13, 2015)

Only simple dlan


----------



## Wehugheog (Mar 5, 2015)

HI Do I need lights strait from sprouting or not? I have a small lite.


----------



## PSUAGRO. (Mar 5, 2015)

Wehugheog said:


> HI Do I need lights strait from sprouting or not? I have a small lite.


READ before continuing

https://www.rollitup.org/t/how-to-grow-marijuana.937/


----------



## Wehugheog (Mar 5, 2015)

Thanks! just what I need


----------



## porrista (Mar 5, 2015)

Has anyone noticed a decay in plant growth after using CFLs for consecutive grows? I experienced some decay last year on 3 consecutive grows but I'm not sure if it was due to other factors.


----------



## Humanrob (Mar 10, 2015)

porrista said:


> Has anyone noticed a decay in plant growth after using CFLs for consecutive grows? I experienced some decay last year on 3 consecutive grows but I'm not sure if it was due to other factors.


I've read that CFL's weaken over time, one poster saying that they should be replaced after each grow. Since they are toxic to the environment (mercury etc.), its just one more reason to go to LED's. 

I'm still on my first grow, but there is no way I'm replacing the dozens of 6500 and 2700 CFL's I've bought with new ones after one cycle. My hope is to invest in LED's, and then use the remaining CFL's for side and supplemental lighting.


----------



## KittyBudette (Mar 12, 2015)

mogie said:


> Contributed by: removed user 08/18/04
> submitted: July 6, 2003
> 
> This is a compilation of basic information on fluorescent lighting that I have gathered over a period of several months.
> ...


Wow......nice detailed post
Lots of good info.I use cfls only.I only grow for myself-2 plants.max.
I am about ready to harvest.I want to leave them another month.Those
buds have just started packing it on,and all under a combo of these lights


----------



## KittyBudette (Mar 12, 2015)

Cidly said:


> Dont steal the light... go buy one. How would you like it if someone stole your shit? Thats like the other post on here where a newbie asks where the best place is to steal weed... cmon man. we are a group of people trying to help eachother and you want to steal someones stuff. Got to another forum on stealing... dont bring that here.


Stealing?!? Really?I agree-don't steal stuff man....that's just low


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 13, 2015)

Humanrob said:


> I've read that CFL's weaken over time, one poster saying that they should be replaced after each grow. Since they are toxic to the environment (mercury etc.), its just one more reason to go to LED's.
> 
> I'm still on my first grow, but there is no way I'm replacing the dozens of 6500 and 2700 CFL's I've bought with new ones after one cycle. My hope is to invest in LED's, and then use the remaining CFL's for side and supplemental lighting.


I just did the math, and if I did it correct, my led lights that are just about ready to go, should last 11 years, with constant always on day after day 365 a year 12 on 12 off,, now that is a freaky long time,, LOL


----------



## Humanrob (Mar 13, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> I just did the math, and if I did it correct, my led lights that are just about ready to go, should last 11 years, with constant always on day after day 365 a year 12 on 12 off,, now that is a freaky long time,, LOL


I have no doubt that given our current choices, LEDs are the way to go for small and/or heat sensitive spaces.

When I bought my first Mac in 1994, an 8 meg RAM upgrade coast me hundreds of dollars… IIRC it was something like $500. Why the trip down memory lane? I think LED's are still somewhere in that early part of the production/cost curve. I could be wrong, but from where I'm sitting that's how it looks. 

I think LED use will grow (globally) in orders of magnitude over the upcoming years, and prices should continue to fall dramatically. I had no choice but to buy that RAM upgrade in 1994, Photoshop 3 needed it to run! I have some flexibility on the LED grow light front, so I'm going to hold off as long as I can… which all things considered, will be late fall 2015. The industry seems to be changing quickly enough that it almost doesn't make sense to do the research now, because six months from now when I'm ready to buy, the options may be significantly different. 

That said, kind of like the proverbial car wreck, I can't seem to look away from this crazy debate about lighting...


----------



## Hawk1020 (Mar 24, 2015)

1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


Yesss Lmao!!


----------



## WeedFreak78 (Mar 25, 2015)

Hawk1020 said:


> Yesss Lmao!!


6 guys working the construction site near me found a couple people tryign to steal tools one morning, beat the F out of them and didn't call the police until lunch time..just left them bloody and hurting for a few hours, no charges against the workers..hope the same happens to any thief.


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 25, 2015)

If a n Apollo 400 watt metal halide and ballast is only 100 dollars on eBay what nut would risk jail over 100 dollars


----------



## Hawk1020 (Mar 25, 2015)

WeedFreak78 said:


> 6 guys working the construction site near me found a couple people tryign to steal tools one morning, beat the F out of them and didn't call the police until lunch time..just left them bloody and hurting for a few hours, no charges against the workers..hope the same happens to any thief.


AhahAha!!


----------



## Hawk1020 (Mar 25, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> If a n Apollo 400 watt metal halide and ballast is only 100 dollars on eBay what nut would risk jail over 100 dollars


Man there's idiots everywhere. Dummies stay DUMMIES.


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 25, 2015)

Amen


Hawk1020 said:


> Man there's idiots everywhere. Dummies stay DUMMIES.


----------



## Hotshot123 (May 4, 2015)

Just bought my new 220 solarflare, replace 400w HPS, is going to replace my 250w HPS. Waiting on mail now. Love this new technology.


----------



## Hotshot123 (May 4, 2015)

Cgarden said:


> Yeah ,it's great technology. It seems the light company I bought from is impressive . One led light , more than 25 plants , amazing .http://www.ecosunlite.com/html_news/Ecosunlite-192X3W-LED-Growing-11.html


Now that is amazing. I would need to be growing for a bunch of people for something like that instead of just my self. You could have weed running out of your ears the first year.


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## wwrockyou (May 4, 2015)

Hotshot123 said:


> Now that is amazing. I would need to be growing for a bunch of people for something like that instead of just my self. You could have weed running out of your ears the first year.


"weed running out your ears" beautiful thought


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## ToneOZ (May 7, 2015)

if sanclem was around i wonder what he would think of all this led shit. lol


----------



## BnugS0130 (Jul 17, 2015)

So on the light thing? Watts is how much energy your using out he socket. Lumans is "how brite it is to the human eye" then what is actually what the plant uses? Light? Frequency of certain LIGHT? Im just an idiot? Confused i guess. Not knocking what rosterfish posted. Maybe ill read it again lol.


----------



## Hotshot123 (Jul 17, 2015)

BnugS0130 said:


> So on the light thing? Watts is how much energy your using out he socket. Lumans is "how brite it is to the human eye" then what is actually what the plant uses? Light? Frequency of certain LIGHT? Im just an idiot? Confused i guess. Not knocking what rosterfish posted. Maybe ill read it again lol.


The light the plants see is PAR, a HPS has 6PAR to one watt, where LED can have as many as 16 Per watt, to as many as 50 Per watt. That is why you can get the hps much closer to the plant than you can the led.


----------



## Shredder5kallday (Aug 8, 2015)

WeedFreak78 said:


> 6 guys working the construction site near me found a couple people tryign to steal tools one morning, beat the F out of them and didn't call the police until lunch time..just left them bloody and hurting for a few hours, no charges against the workers..hope the same happens to any thief.


Somone robbed my house I shot the called the cops he missing an arm ...


----------



## Shredder5kallday (Aug 8, 2015)

Umm what does any one thing about use 600 watt digital ballast with raptor hood room 9x9


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## Hotshot123 (Aug 9, 2015)

Shredder5kallday said:


> Umm what does any one thing about use 600 watt digital ballast with raptor hood room 9x9[/Q That is not enough light for 81 sq ft. If you mean 9'x9'. You would need about 6- 1,000w or more to cover that much space.


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## Shredder5kallday (Aug 9, 2015)

U really think its possible to pull 6 pounds off that much room


----------



## Hotshot123 (Aug 10, 2015)

BnugS0130 said:


> So on the light thing? Watts is how much energy your using out he socket. Lumans is "how brite it is to the human eye" then what is actually what the plant uses? Light? Frequency of certain LIGHT? Im just an idiot? Confused i guess. Not knocking what rosterfish posted. Maybe ill read it again lol.


PAR is what the plant see's, there is 6 PAR to ever watt of HPS, and 16 to as many as 50 per watt in an LED. If you can get a hole of an light meter, you can measure the PAR Light, at different distance, and around the light at different angles.


----------



## newbuddy (Oct 31, 2015)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


SHOOT EM THEN HANG EM


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## newbuddy (Oct 31, 2015)

Slam said:


> Lol, yeh see what you mean, but after spending half an hour reading it all would be kind of pointless not to say thanks or anything


THANK YOU!!


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## newbuddy (Oct 31, 2015)

WeedFreak78 said:


> 6 guys working the construction site near me found a couple people tryign to steal tools one morning, beat the F out of them and didn't call the police until lunch time..just left them bloody and hurting for a few hours, no charges against the workers..hope the same happens to any thief.


Shoulda tested that light out on his NUTS if he had any


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## newbuddy (Oct 31, 2015)

Hotshot123 said:


> Now that is amazing. I would need to be growing for a bunch of people for something like that instead of just my self. You could have weed running out of your ears the first year.


DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM


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## meristem (Dec 2, 2015)

dammm - thought it said "Things to know about Lightning". I was like hmmmmm....


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## Javadog (Dec 5, 2015)

Yeah, if you are ever outside and your hair starts to stand up, 
then you might want to get down near the ground....

These dudes got shocked moments later:


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## Rudi I&I Automan (Dec 8, 2015)

better then buzzzz a DBS lightning buzzzz strike to the templezzzzz, well electric shooooooooooooooooooock in my cazzzzze


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## Rudi I&I Automan (Dec 8, 2015)

newbuddy said:


> Shoulda tested that light out on his NUTS if he had any


6 on 2, should have just hilti gunned them to a lamp post and then called the police. Imagine the commotion that would follow trying to remove them now that would be a perfect home video of the whole aftermath. oh yeah, don't steal my plants and I wont hilti you to a lamp post. he knows who I mean lol it was funny at the time, but it was over 10yrs ago, and im very protective of my flowers


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## PerfectGrower (Apr 12, 2016)

We are big fans of CMH technology. 


Expensive startup costs but worth ever watt they use!


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## Camtheman88 (May 9, 2016)

Hey what up guys, I was wondering if you could check my thread I got a question concerning lighting with pics and all that good details!! I dubbing ya can find if of not I'll copy it to here


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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 12, 2016)

http://www.ecosunlite.com/html_news/CREE-CX-9-LED-Growing-to-Harvest-15.html

Cree led grow light with 3years warranty , offer good solution for growers


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## chuck estevez (May 12, 2016)

Ecosunlite CREE LED said:


> http://www.ecosunlite.com/html_news/CREE-CX-9-LED-Growing-to-Harvest-15.html
> 
> Cree led grow light with 3years warranty , offer good solution for growers


got any pics of those buds dried and cured?


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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 12, 2016)

for drying pics , we don't get from our customer .


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## chuck estevez (May 12, 2016)

Typical Answer from LED users, their grows are like fruit striped gum


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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 12, 2016)

Or pic like this ?


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## chuck estevez (May 12, 2016)

Ecosunlite CREE LED said:


> Or pic like this ?View attachment 3679723


that is a great pic, really proves my point about how ALL LED grown bud has that weird look and then no one ever posts pics after it's dried.
the bud does not have bag appeal and falls short after drying, it is what I get rid of if I get buds that look like that.


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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 12, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> that is a great pic, really proves my point about how ALL LED grown bud has that weird look and then no one ever posts pics after it's dried.
> the bud does not have bag appeal and falls short after drying, it is what I get rid of if I get buds that look like that.


That's another drying pic from another grower .


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## chuck estevez (May 12, 2016)

Ecosunlite CREE LED said:


> That's another drying pic from another grower .


right, I got it. EVERY pic of LED grows, the bud looks like big fluffballs. LED's are GREAT for vegging though.


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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (May 12, 2016)




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## widowmaker31 (May 14, 2016)

LED BudZ..... these are commercial and designed for cannabis. 

The WidoW


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## Hotshot123 (May 22, 2016)

This is a picture of a 5 1/2 oz MEDUSA grown under a 220 LED, pulling 165W from wall. Dried weight.


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## Feisty1UR (May 22, 2016)

Hotshot123 said:


> This is a picture of a 5 1/2 oz MEDUSA grown under a 220 LED, pulling 165W from wall. Dried weight.


Have you got a picture of that wonderful plant before the chop?


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## Hotshot123 (May 23, 2016)

Feisty1UR said:


> Have you got a picture of that wonderful plant before the chop?


No, it look pretty much like it does there, just standing up right, with a lot of leaves on it. ha


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## ky man (Jun 1, 2016)

Ecosunlite CREE LED said:


> View attachment 3679721
> for drying pics , we don't get from our customer .


that plant looks killer.what strain is it? ky


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## ky man (Jun 1, 2016)

Hotshot123 said:


> This is a picture of a 5 1/2 oz MEDUSA grown under a 220 LED, pulling 165W from wall. Dried weight.


I would love to know where to get seeds at from a plant like that if you can I would like a pm of where to order them seeds at..ky........I would like to try that stran out doors and see how shed grow..ky


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## ky man (Jun 1, 2016)

or mabey indoor this winter.ky


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## Ecosunlite CREE LED (Jun 1, 2016)

ky man said:


> that plant looks killer.what strain is it? ky


Auto Dinafem Moby Dick XXL

one of grower grow with our LED Panel and you can check the whole growing from start to harvest http://www.420magazine.com/forums/completed-journals/256532-mihas-automazar-leds-take-2-a-4.html


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## Hotshot123 (Jun 22, 2016)

(Medusa) I can't find how to PM, but they come from many company's. Mind came from (Seedsman)


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## JJARTS (Jul 4, 2016)

big dog said:


> can you use those metal halides they sell at home depot for street lights


But guys, why trying to innovate about lights when I see in amazon a MH 1000 W for less than $40


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## testiclees (Jul 4, 2016)

Ecosunlite CREE LED said:


> Auto Dinafem Moby Dick XXL
> 
> one of grower grow with our LED Panel and you can check the whole growing from start to harvest http://www.420magazine.com/forums/completed-journals/256532-mihas-automazar-leds-take-2-a-4.html


Nothing against your lamp but 420 is populated with the least saavy, most prone to group think, anti-science and pro advertiser led dolts than any stoner site ive visited. Theywere Pled's biggest cheerleaders than later banned them. lol clot of greedy half asses in charge there.


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## Nic Barlor (Nov 9, 2016)

Hi all, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm curious if anyone has had any experience with these German Narva HID bulbs:
the Narva NACHROMA (MH) and NATRALOX (HPS)
Here are links to the product page: http://narva-gle.com/nachroma-en.html#nachroma-veg-en
http://narva-gle.com/natralox-en.html#natralox-veg-en

If anyone has used these before, are they considerably superior to a standard Philips bulb? Worth splurging on? Thanks in advance, y'all.


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## Hotshot123 (Nov 12, 2016)

Nic Barlor said:


> Hi all, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm curious if anyone has had any experience with these German Narva HID bulbs:
> the Narva NACHROMA (MH) and NATRALOX (HPS)
> Here are links to the product page: http://narva-gle.com/nachroma-en.html#nachroma-veg-en
> http://narva-gle.com/natralox-en.html#natralox-veg-en
> ...


As far as I know all bulbs and ballast are made in China in the same factory. They put name brand on some of them, and other names on the others. I have never had a problem with the no name bulbs, when I use to use MH/HPS, so I don't think there is really much difference, if any at all.


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## Hotshot123 (Nov 12, 2016)

Hotshot123 said:


> No, it look pretty much like it does there, just standing up right, with a lot of leaves on it. ha


Just found this picture.


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## Nic Barlor (Nov 12, 2016)

Hotshot123 said:


> As far as I know all bulbs and ballast are made in China in the same factory. They put name brand on some of them, and other names on the others. I have never had a problem with the no name bulbs, when I use to use MH/HPS, so I don't think there is really much difference, if any at all.


Thanks for the reply, Hotshot.

Okay, good to know. That frees up some capital in my budget, considering the fact that the Narva bulbs are 4-5x the price of no name bulbs and about 3x as much as a Philips bulb.
I'll probably just stick with a Philips bulb for flowering and think about a no-name or a Philips for veg.



Hotshot123 said:


> View attachment 3828726
> Just found this picture.


What a magnificent specimen!


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## Michiganjesse (Nov 20, 2016)

BCENVY said:


> Find your local major electrical company (like one's that do large comercial jobs) find their suppliers (their suppliers usually sell to the public, just not at our discounted rate)
> 
> **EDIT**
> You can find this item legally for under $200 on amazon, under "home improvement" I found it by doing a google search for "metal halide wobble light"
> ...


Thanks hope they don't steal mine


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## Saskatchewan (Dec 24, 2016)

Dr Atomic in this Bitch


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## S'sloegro (Jan 31, 2017)

Will your plants tell you if you're giving them too much light(not heat)? In veg or flower?


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## Hotshot123 (Feb 1, 2017)

S'sloegro said:


> Will your plants tell you if you're giving them too much light(not heat)? In veg or flower?


From what I understand you can't give plants too much light, but the plants only need a certain amount for a certain area, if you give more light in that area then it needs, it want effect your plants as far as I know, it just will only produce a certain amount of bud, so you can put to much light on them, but it doesn't hurt the bud, just doesn't produce any more than the maximum amount of light that the plant picks up in a maximum space.. I hope you understand, it is very hard for me to explain. JMO Good luck and happy growing. And I think the answer to your question is NO.


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## RangiSTaxi (Apr 5, 2017)

Hotshot123 said:


> From what I understand you can't give plants too much light, but the plants only need a certain amount for a certain area, if you give more light in that area then it needs, it want effect your plants as far as I know, it just will only produce a certain amount of bud, so you can put to much light on them, but it doesn't hurt the bud, just doesn't produce any more than the maximum amount of light that the plant picks up in a maximum space.. I hope you understand, it is very hard for me to explain. JMO Good luck and happy growing. And I think the answer to your question is NO.


im too stone to read past your first line ill be honest

yes you can give the girls too much light , past 58,000 lux too much ...any light source, and if you disagree ill feed you to the mother in law.

god help you


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## Javadog (Apr 7, 2017)

This is not a species of plant that requires a dark period, as some do.
That much is true.


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## fosterlogan6731 (Apr 8, 2017)

Hello


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## HenshawEukrin (Sep 17, 2017)

very helpful to me,thank you


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## IsadoraNiclen (Sep 20, 2017)

sevenlas said:


> anyone has experience with these NLITEs...and PURple...


That's great


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## J.Parker (Sep 25, 2017)

Wavelengths very important thing to take in count
Happy growing


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## Robbie Holiday (Oct 12, 2017)

BCENVY said:


> Yup yup...I'm a general contractor...they are in fact all over large construction sites.
> 
> HOWEVER I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE STEALING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES...IT'S DARK, THERE'S NO ONE AROUND...THEIVES THAT ARE CAUGHT ARE GENERALLY DEALT WITH SEVERLY WHEN CAUGHT IN DARK PLACES WITH NO WITNESSES.
> 
> ...


meeee oooowwww


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## Tx-Peanutt (Nov 4, 2017)

I just picked a pair of Apollo horticulture MH / HPS grow light sunglasses must have for all indoor growers cheap investment


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## palegreenthumb11 (Apr 22, 2018)

Lacy said:


> *Wow tahoe. great read!!!
> I have been researching this for a bit now. I was wondering the same thing myself.
> I'm down to two light choices right now.
> An 800 watt system that eks 2 bulbs at the same time. You can have either 2 MH, 2 hps or one of each. It has a built in fan but is also $400.
> ...


Not to butt in, but I am pretty sure you only use 1 bulb at a time. The MH bulb is for the veg cycle and the HPS is for the flowering cyle, When I bought my setup, it had the bulb choice also. Go with one of each and use as directed above and you'll be happy! Unless I'm missing something, cuz that 800w system is pretty expensive! So maybe it IS running 2 lights.


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## Intheclosetgrower420 (Jun 26, 2018)

saka said:


> hi ,i am the new grower!I have a small wardrobe growing box with 400wHPS lamp for phase 2 and luminiscent lamp 25 W=250 light sourse for phase 1 .I that good lights systems.Please help me becouse this is my firs grow and i dont want my plant DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!thx in advanse weed people


400W has sounds like a little much for a wardrobe box as far as heat goes. Make sure you have good ventilation.


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## devile (Sep 5, 2018)

Tx-Peanutt said:


> I just picked a pair of Apollo horticulture MH / HPS grow light sunglasses must have for all indoor growers cheap investment View attachment 4037984


Your glasses look great. The following is my Mars Hydro glasses, I won this gift in their live show.


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## devile (Sep 5, 2018)

This is my happy time with my Mars ProII 320 led last year


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## Unit Farm System Supply (Sep 10, 2018)

don't forget wear the glasses when you take care your plants


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## Unit Farm System Supply (Sep 10, 2018)

devile said:


> This is my happy time with my Mars ProII 320 led last year
> 
> View attachment 4193094


wow~ you got a amazing harvest


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## Vinny1989 (Sep 10, 2018)

Unit Farm System Supply said:


> wow~ you got a amazing harvest


How much do those leds cost?


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## Vinny1989 (Sep 10, 2018)

devile said:


> This is my happy time with my Mars ProII 320 led last year
> 
> View attachment 4193094


How much do those leds cost?


devile said:


> This is my happy time with my Mars ProII 320 led last year
> 
> View attachment 4193094


How much do those mars leds cost mate?


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## Cannibas grower (Sep 11, 2018)

Vinny1989 said:


> How much do those leds cost?
> 
> How much do those mars leds cost mate?


I knew their official website, www.mars-hydro.com. you can click in to check the price. I have used the coupon code JOY to got discount for my Mars COB, I guess the coupon code is still avaliable.


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## Cannibas grower (Sep 11, 2018)

Just want to show my plants, lol, love my Mars COB too! I'm considering to get a new tent and a bigger light. Maybe Mars Pro II 320 is the good choice, because devile already has the great harvest


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## Unit Farm System Supply (Sep 11, 2018)

Vinny1989 said:


> How much do those leds cost?


Do you mean Unit Farm LED or Mars Hydro?


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## Unit Farm System Supply (Sep 11, 2018)

Cannibas grower said:


> Just want to show my plants, lol, love my Mars COB too! I'm considering to get a new tent and a bigger light. Maybe Mars Pro II 320 is the good choice, because devile already has the great harvest
> View attachment 4196620


Cob is great and popular, but Unit Farm don't have COB series, we have the great UFO series!!!!


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## Tx-Peanutt (Sep 18, 2018)

devile said:


> Your glasses look great. The following is my Mars Hydro glasses, I won this gift in their live show.
> View attachment 4193084


Awesome makes a big difference when your under the lights... congratulations on the win nothing better than free !!!


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## devile (Sep 19, 2018)

Vinny1989 said:


> How much do those leds cost?
> 
> How much do those mars leds cost mate?


About USD610/pcs, I did not remember the exact price, you can check proII 320 price on their website I think


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## devile (Sep 19, 2018)

Tx-Peanutt said:


> Awesome makes a big difference when your under the lights... congratulations on the win nothing better than free !!!


Thank you. Mars Hydro told me they have LiveShow on 20th each month to send free gifts out


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## devile (Sep 19, 2018)

Unit Farm System Supply said:


> Cob is great and popular, but Unit Farm don't have COB series, we have the great UFO series!!!!


Your UF grow bar looks great, do you need any tester?


----------



## Unit Farm System Supply (Sep 19, 2018)

devile said:


> Your UF grow bar looks great, do you need any tester?


of course, May we talk with private message?


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## romsh85 (Nov 20, 2018)

oliverblackk said:


> Thanks! Useful thread!


agree!


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## PUREWATER (Mar 16, 2019)

roosterfish said:


> ive just changed to 250 wats of them nlite cfls red and perple wud love to know if anyone cud fill me in on any ifo about um





1stymer said:


> you need a good light? go to any large construction site and steal a 400w mh wobble light. they are all over large site.


You are 1 ass hole we ran pot for years i am 62 yrs old pot when you could get 15yrs for an oz and people like you should be on crack because pot heads DONT FUCKING STEAL you pure loser pot is a good thing keep your bad with you coke heads and die


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## PUREWATER (Mar 16, 2019)

romsh85 said:


> agree!


Thank you its good to see real people here not just a fl gay bait


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## Hightz (Apr 3, 2019)

Dope


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## DustyDuke (Apr 5, 2019)

PUREWATER said:


> You are 1 ass hole we ran pot for years i am 62 yrs old pot when you could get 15yrs for an oz and people like you should be on crack because pot heads DONT FUCKING STEAL you pure loser pot is a good thing keep your bad with you coke heads and die


I have my own small masonry construction company lost $10000 in equipment last year get fuck all from insurance. Every time I buy tools or equipment I have to take a photo of barcode and note how machinery is stored and put it in a log book because of thieves I have to work an hour extra a week just for paper work. Or just small things like F clamps last week I had to set a job out with straight edges took me 4 hours to set the house out so the bricklayers could start the next day (you use clamps to hold the straight edges up with timber 2 per straight edge) that night someone decided they wanted the clamps took them only $150 in clamps but it’s the 4 hours of work that fucked me and I have tradesmen standing around not making money for 14 clamps  that $10000 is my profit it’s my kids education and health care


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## DustyDuke (Apr 5, 2019)

On a lighter note (pardon the pun) can you run an lec and led in the same tent. Has anyone done this with success? I’m getting conflicting answers on the internet like usual. My cmh is on a light rail running on an angle I’ll put a rough drawing so I hope it makes some sense. I don’t really want to buy another lec as I already have a led and on the light rail it vegs the majority of the space it’s just flowering it need a top up hope this makes sense


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## TEKNIK (Apr 5, 2019)

DustyDuke said:


> On a lighter note (pardon the pun) can you run an lec and led in the same tent. Has anyone done this with success? I’m getting conflicting answers on the internet like usual. My cmh is on a light rail running on an angle I’ll put a rough drawing so I hope it makes some sense. I don’t really want to buy another lec as I already have a led and on the light rail it vegs the majority of the space it’s just flowering it need a top up hope this makes senseView attachment 4312888


You can run led lights, all you need to watch out for is that you keep them at the same height as your other light to give the maximum spread and not shade anything. Probably one or 2 cob lights will cover that area for you


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## RangiSTaxi (Sep 28, 2019)

HELP, IM a Noob so dont over power me with info.

I just purchased 3 x https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/mean-well-usa-inc/APC-25-700/1866-1125-ND/7702576 

to go with 3 X https://www.cutter.com.au/product/ssk-1560-730_660/

i hope it will work ok?

ive never seen these https://www.cutter.com.au/product/ssk-1560-730_660/ boards before i guess that little box on them has a place for a positive and negative wire? and i just wire the driver to a plug?

I plan to run this in the middle of HLG 550 panels V1 , version one.

I feel my Cree 3590 cobs at 3500k do better than my 3000k HLG 550s thats why im thinking of adding a red supplement light to the 550s

Thank you.


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## hybridway2 (Oct 11, 2019)

Lighting's my thing. Maybe i can help someone?


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## RangiSTaxi (Oct 11, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Lighting's my thing. Maybe i can help someone?


I have got my Lights sorted now , but thank you, Im sure there will be many others which will need some advice.

Thank you for the reply


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## RangiSTaxi (Oct 11, 2019)

RangiSTaxi said:


> I feel my Cree 3590 cobs at 3500k do better than my 3000k HLG 550s thats why im thinking of adding a red supplement light to the 550s
> 
> Thank you.


The was meant to read I feel my Cree 3590 cobs at 3000k do better than my 3500k HLG 550s thats why im thinking of adding a red supplement light to the 550s, I got it around the wrong way.


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## hybridway2 (Oct 11, 2019)

RangiSTaxi said:


> The was meant to read I feel my Cree 3590 cobs at 3000k do better than my 3500k HLG 550s thats why im thinking of adding a red supplement light to the 550s, I got it around the wrong way.


Did ya do it?


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## RangiSTaxi (Oct 11, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Did ya do it?


sure did, 10 deep reds 2 far reds , will see how it goes next grow.Linear Strip, Solder less, 660nm Deep Red (10), 730nm Far Red(2)

https://www.cutter.com.au/product/ssk-1560-730_660/

Can i run it with my other light, on the same cycle , would be simpler for me (Emerson effect) or do i need to run the reds on a separate timer so that they run 15mins after lights out? to best use the 2 far reds? put them to sleep faster and shorten flowering cycle?


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## hybridway2 (Oct 11, 2019)

RangiSTaxi said:


> sure did, 10 deep reds 2 far reds , will see how it goes next grow.Linear Strip, Solder less, 660nm Deep Red (10), 730nm Far Red(2)
> 
> https://www.cutter.com.au/product/ssk-1560-730_660/
> 
> Can i run it with my other light, on the same cycle , would be simpler for me (Emerson effect) or do i need to run the reds on a separate timer so that they run 15mins after lights out? to best use the 2 far reds? put them to sleep faster and shorten flowering cycle?


Yes. Nice! Use for both i would


----------



## RangiSTaxi (Oct 11, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Yes. Nice! Use for both i would


just one more question, do I run the reds 15 minutes before lights on and if so why?


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## hybridway2 (Oct 11, 2019)

RangiSTaxi said:


> just one more question, do I run the reds 15 minutes before lights on and if so why?


No, 15 min. After lights out but don't need much. To much might cause a stretch effect.


----------



## RangiSTaxi (Oct 11, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> No, 15 min. After lights out but don't need much.


awesome thank you. thought that was the case, as I had read a post suggesting run 15 mins before as well as after, and that was news to me, i found it strange , so thought i better clarify with a expert like yourself.Thank you.


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## RangiSTaxi (Oct 14, 2019)

hybridway2 said:


> Lighting's my thing. Maybe i can help someone?


OK I could do with your help see : https://www.rollitup.org/t/veg-12-hours-white-light-12-hours-of-pure-red.998235/

Thank you


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## hybridway2 (Oct 14, 2019)

RangiSTaxi said:


> OK I could do with your help see : https://www.rollitup.org/t/veg-12-hours-white-light-12-hours-of-pure-red.998235/
> 
> Thank you


Not one i could speak on.
Is this an auto? I dont get it?
All that comes to mind is plant stress & foxtailly fluff bud here n there.
If photo plant then 5-15 min. 730nm at lights out makes sense.


----------

