# Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?



## Nevaeh420 (Dec 23, 2014)

Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?

What are your sentiments on this?

~PEACE~


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## vostok (Dec 23, 2014)

*poster has 3 000 post in 2 years and 9 peeps following ...buddy get a life*​


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## theexpress (Dec 23, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?
> 
> What are your sentiments on this?
> 
> ~PEACE~


i beleave in aliens..


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## Nevaeh420 (Dec 23, 2014)

theexpress said:


> i beleave in aliens..


What do you believe about aliens?

~PEACE~


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## theexpress (Dec 23, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> What do you believe about aliens?
> 
> ~PEACE~


i beleave they exist...


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## gorillagrower0840 (Dec 23, 2014)




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## gorillagrower0840 (Dec 23, 2014)

In all honesty there is no reason anyone _should_ believe in such stuff. Religion is unnecessary, unnatural, and doesn't actually do anything. You can do everything you do without religion, and your life will not be different if you don't believe in anything. It's easy to let go of the burden of having to believe fairy tales, all religious people should try it. And I mean _truly_ _honestly_ try it with an open mind.


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## Nevaeh420 (Dec 23, 2014)

theexpress said:


> i beleave they exist...


Yes, I believe aliens exist too.

It seems innate that aliens would exist somewhere in this huge universe.

~PEACE~


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## theexpress (Dec 23, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Yes, I believe aliens exist too.
> 
> It seems innate that aliens would exist somewhere in this huge universe.
> 
> ~PEACE~


you ever seen one..


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## Nevaeh420 (Dec 23, 2014)

theexpress said:


> you ever seen one..


Maybe... maybe not.

I saw something that I thought was an alien for a long time. Now, I don't know if it was an "above top secret" military person wearing invisible and translucent technology, or maybe even a time traveler: or maybe I did indeed see an actual alien. But, I don't have any proof of what I saw besides My eye witness testimony.

I am sure that if I took a lie detector test, the lie dectector test would say that I am being truthful in regards to seeing (maybe) and alien, or some being in the year 2012. That being was on top of My neighbors roof, I believe.

If I did indeed see an actual alien, that would be groundbreaking news. And if I had video of My encounter with that being, I am sure that I would be a rich man. 

I can only be honest with you. I have nothing to gain from lying to anyone on the internet.

But forget everything I just said to you. My question for you is if you watched My video about My encounter with that being? The video is called "The SIGNS of the TIMES". Did you watch that video I made?

~PEACE~


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## theexpress (Dec 23, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Maybe... maybe not.
> 
> I saw something that I thought was an alien for a long time. Now, I don't know if it was an "above top secret" military person wearing invisible and translucent technology, or maybe even a time traveler: or maybe I did indeed see an actual alien. But, I don't have any proof of what I saw besides My eye witness testimony.
> 
> ...


no i didnt watch it.


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## Nevaeh420 (Dec 23, 2014)

theexpress said:


> no i didnt watch it.


The SIGNS of the TIMES!






Check it out, and I also have 5 other videos of Myself where I look a lot better.

I did make a mistake in that video, I saw the black cloud of the eve of GOOD FRIDAY, and not the eve of black Friday.

~PEACE~


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## theexpress (Dec 23, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> The SIGNS of the TIMES!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


have you seen my video yet???? wepa!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## tyler.durden (Dec 23, 2014)

Wow. Yet another thread created for the purpose of repeating the christ/alien bullshit. They are getting close to being created daily. Don't you ever bore yourself, pseudo-christ? Has nothing noteworthy happened since the alien hallucination? As I've stated, way past time for new material...


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## Nevaeh420 (Dec 23, 2014)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> In all honesty there is no reason anyone _should_ believe in such stuff. Religion is unnecessary, unnatural, and doesn't actually do anything. You can do everything you do without religion, and your life will not be different if you don't believe in anything. It's easy to let go of the burden of having to believe fairy tales, all religious people should try it. And I mean _truly_ _honestly_ try it with an open mind.


Yes, I agree with you for the most part.

I would be an Atheist if I wasn't an Agnostic.

I don't see any proof for God, and Jesus seems like a logical fallacy.

~PEACE~


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 23, 2014)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> In all honesty there is no reason anyone _should_ believe in such stuff. Religion is unnecessary, unnatural, and doesn't actually do anything. You can do everything you do without religion, and your life will not be different if you don't believe in anything. It's easy to let go of the burden of having to believe fairy tales, all religious people should try it. And I mean _truly_ _honestly_ try it with an open mind.


l honestly hear what you are saying, but, I can't help notice the fairy tale comment. It is much easier to bring a person to see your views if they aren't first trying to see over your nose.


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 23, 2014)

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/cogarch3/MetaDiscuss/Symbol.html


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## tyler.durden (Dec 24, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Yes, I agree with you for the most part.
> 
> I would be an Atheist if I wasn't an Agnostic.
> 
> ...


You are misusing terms. If Jesus wasn't legit, it is not a logical fallacy. A fallacy is incorrect argument in logic and rhetoric resulting in a lack of validity, or more generally, a lack of soundness. Common examples are the Argument from Ignorance (I don't understand how this can be so, therefor it is false), and the Argument from Authority (Einstein believed this was so, so is automatically true). I gave you the list before, here it is again (you really only need to familiarize yourself with the informal fallacies) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Informal_fallacies
As you go through this list (yeah, right) you should recognize some fallacies that you use often. These can truly help one's critical thinking skills. 

Also, you are misusing the term agnostic. These terms are addressing separate questions; atheist or theist is addressing BELIEF, while agnostic or gnostic are addressing KNOWLEDGE. The possibilities are -

Agnostic Theist - Believes there is a god, but can't know for sure. Very refreshing to meet these guys.
Gnostic Theist - Not only believes there is a god, but knows FOR SURE one exists. This is most theist I've experienced.
Agnostic Atheist - They don't believe in a god, but do not know for sure. This is most atheists.
Gnostic Atheist - Not only doesn't believe in a god, but knows FOR SURE none exist. Rare, only Pad IME.

Perhaps you could read this post multiple times to improve the clarity of your thinking process, and your communication with others...


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## tyler.durden (Dec 24, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> l honestly hear what you are saying, but, I can't help notice the fairy tale comment. It is much easier to bring a person to see your views if they aren't first trying to see over your nose.


Damn! I really missed your droll wit


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## gorillagrower0840 (Dec 24, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> l honestly hear what you are saying, but, I can't help notice the fairy tale comment. It is much easier to bring a person to see your views if they aren't first trying to see over your nose.


I'm sorry I don't follow. What does that mean?


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## tyler.durden (Dec 24, 2014)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> I'm sorry I don't follow. What does that mean?


Hey dude. I am digging your posts, cool to have you in this sub-forum. Eye is saying that by using the term fairy tale, you are looking down your nose at theists, so they have to look back at you over your upraised nose  His point is that by putting forth your thoughts in a more respectful way, you're more likely to be heard and respected in turn. He takes a while to understand, but it's worth it...


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## Steele_GreenMan (Dec 24, 2014)

theexpress said:


> you ever seen one..


Please no...

Too late

You hit the buzzword

Videos will ensure (of beard face)


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## gorillagrower0840 (Dec 24, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> Hey dude. I am digging your posts, cool to have you in this sub-forum. Eye is saying that by using the term fairy tale, you are looking down your nose at theists, so they have to look back at you over your upraised nose  His point is that by putting forth your thoughts in a more respectful way, you're more likely to be heard and respected in turn. He takes a while to understand, but it's worth it...


Ah I see. But I just say what I think are good descriptions. I'm not necessarily trying to be disrespectful on purpose. But then again, I'm not too worried about people's feelings that much. The truth is the truth and if that offends people, oh well.

Just out of curiosity, what would be a different or better way of saying it?


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## gorillagrower0840 (Dec 24, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> The SIGNS of the TIMES!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I must say you are brave for posting your face on a cannabis growing forum.


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## Steele_GreenMan (Dec 24, 2014)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> I must say you are brave for posting your face on a cannabis growing forum.


He doesn't do anything illegal as far as I've seen

Finshaggy, still not illegal, but should be


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## tyler.durden (Dec 24, 2014)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> Ah I see. But I just say what I think are good descriptions. I'm not necessarily trying to be disrespectful on purpose. But then again, I'm not too worried about people's feelings that much. The truth is the truth and if that offends people, oh well.


I hear you, I'm very much the same way. Note that was his opinion, one that I rarely share 



> Just out of curiosity, what would be a different or better way of saying it?


Instead of Fairy Tales, perhaps Ancient Myths or Noble Legends of Old. Lol, I wish there was a jerk-off motion emoticon...


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## tyler.durden (Dec 24, 2014)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> I must say you are brave for posting your face on a cannabis growing forum.


Don't worry, he's never grown anything in his life...


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## skunkd0c (Dec 24, 2014)

Another great thread George


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 24, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> Hey dude. I am digging your posts, cool to have you in this sub-forum. Eye is saying that by using the term fairy tale, you are looking down your nose at theists, so they have to look back at you over your upraised nose  His point is that by putting forth your thoughts in a more respectful way, you're more likely to be heard and respected in turn. He takes a while to understand, but it's worth it...


Hi, Tyler. Thanks for the kind words and very clear explanation of what I was saying. Pretty cool! I'd pass you a bowl right now but, you know, limitations


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## oldtimer54 (Dec 24, 2014)

What ever helps you cope with today's problems or makes your life easier to live......more power to you . God ,aliens, the Pope , Obama ,Uncle Buck......who am I to judge !
Happy Holidaze !


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## eye exaggerate (Dec 25, 2014)




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## eye exaggerate (Dec 25, 2014)

"Christians have made a myriad contributions in a broad and diverse range of fields, including the sciences, arts, politics, literatures and business. According to _100 Years of Nobel Prizes_ a review of Nobel prizes award between 1901 and 2000 reveals that (65.4%) of Nobel Prizes Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference."


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## Nevaeh420 (Dec 30, 2014)

eye exaggerate said:


> "Christians have made a myriad contributions in a broad and diverse range of fields, including the sciences, arts, politics, literatures and business. According to _100 Years of Nobel Prizes_ a review of Nobel prizes award between 1901 and 2000 reveals that (65.4%) of Nobel Prizes Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference."


Regardless of how many Christians have won the Nobel prize, it doesn't make their religion any more credible, in My opinion.

~PEACE~


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## gorillagrower0840 (Dec 30, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Regardless of how many Christians have won the Nobel prize, it doesn't make their religion any more credible, in My opinion.
> 
> ~PEACE~


It's not just an opinion. It's true.


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## Nevaeh420 (Dec 30, 2014)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> It's not just an opinion. It's true.


Yes, I agree, thank you.

No miracles have ever been empirically proven by science, so the Jesus story is a myth, and also the alleged miracles that happened in the Old Testament is also mythical.

I believe it is actually a logical fallacy, but I forget the name. Its when its impossible for others, except for God or Jesus, or whomever. Maybe someone can help Me name this logical fallacy?

~PEACE~


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## gorillagrower0840 (Dec 30, 2014)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Yes, I agree, thank you.
> 
> No miracles have ever been empirically proven by science, so the Jesus story is a myth, and also the alleged miracles that happened in the Old Testament is also mythical.
> 
> ...


Maybe this helps?

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/


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## Nevaeh420 (Dec 31, 2014)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> Maybe this helps?
> 
> http://www.logicalfallacies.info/


I think its called "special pleading".

Special pleading is like saying that Jesus can perform miracles, but no one else can perform miracles... I believe? I believe its a logical fallacy, but I didn't see it mention "special pleading" in that link you gave.

Thanks for your help anyways.

~PEACE~


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 8, 2015)

Why should I believe in any religion?

~PEACE~


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 8, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why should I believe in any religion?
> 
> ~PEACE~


Why should anyone believe in any anything?


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## whitebb2727 (Jan 8, 2015)

You know my opinion. It is mainly eye, gorilla, neveah, and I that discuss these things.
Mans brain is wired for superstition. Step.on a crack break your back.

As a human we ALL are wrong from time to time.
My belief in god hurts no one. If I'm wrong when I die no harm no foul. If your wrong and wake up in hell, well that would suck.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 8, 2015)

I can't say that I hold the view that if I believe in God, I will go to 'heaven'; and that those who don't will go to 'hell'. It's just not that easy.

There are as many types of belief as there are gradations of light from the sun.


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## Mr. Shine (Jan 8, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?
> 
> What are your sentiments on this?
> 
> ~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Jan 8, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I think its called "special pleading".
> 
> Special pleading is like saying that Jesus can perform miracles, but no one else can perform miracles... I believe? I believe its a logical fallacy, but I didn't see it mention "special pleading" in that link you gave.
> 
> ...


Right, it's special pleading, which is asking for an exemption from the norm. It isn't a fallacy if one can justify the exemption. In the case of Jesus, asking for a justification will ultimately lead back to the bible, which would be an Argument from Authority...


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 9, 2015)

eye exaggerate said:


> Why should anyone believe in any anything?


Even the most skeptical Atheists have beliefs too.

For example, I would assume that even the most skeptical scientist needs to believe in scientific theories? because even if there is myraid evidence to support said theory, it is still a theory, and some theories have changed with new evidence?

Even the most skeptical Atheists believe they will wake up tomorrow and not die from a freak accident. Or the most skeptical Atheists might believe that the USA is safe from nuclear attacks. Or, maybe, the skeptical Atheists believe the sun will still be in the sky tomorrow.

Yes, all of these said things are probable, but even your own life is not guaranteed: and even the most skeptical Atheists have fundamental beliefs, in My honest opinion.

~PEACE~


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 9, 2015)

whitebb2727 said:


> You know my opinion. It is mainly eye, gorilla, neveah, and I that discuss these things.
> Mans brain is wired for superstition. Step.on a crack break your back.
> 
> As a human we ALL are wrong from time to time.
> My belief in god hurts no one. If I'm wrong when I die no harm no foul. If your wrong and wake up in hell, well that would suck.


I have read some of your posts, and I found out that you are an electronics engineer, yes?

I went to a vocational high school, where I studied electronic engineering, and it is not easy. You need to have a good understanding of science, math, physics, chemistry, etc., in order to be a proficient electronics engineer.

I studied basic electronics, like all the analog devices, and they started to teach digital logic, etc.. It takes a very smart person to understand electronics.

Anyways, to get back on subject, why should I believe in Christianity, Jesus, God, etc.? 

~PEACE~


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## gorillagrower0840 (Jan 9, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Even the most skeptical Atheists have beliefs too.
> 
> For example, I would assume that even the most skeptical scientist needs to believe in scientific theories? because even if there is myraid evidence to support said theory, it is still a theory, and some theories have changed with new evidence?
> 
> ...


Yes, but atheists tend to believe in rational things and disbelieve in irrational things. Believing things is a basic human characteristic, no matter if you are religious or not.

For example, I believe that the sun produces light. 

And I disbelieve that there are purple goblins behind me.


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## gorillagrower0840 (Jan 9, 2015)

eye exaggerate said:


> Why should anyone believe in any anything?


Why should not anyone believe in nothing?


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 9, 2015)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> Yes, but atheists tend to believe in rational things and disbelieve in irrational things. Believing things is a basic human characteristic, no matter if you are religious or not.
> 
> For example, I believe that the sun produces light.
> 
> And I disbelieve that there are purple goblins behind me.


Yes, I agree that some Atheists are more scientific, rational, logical, etc., compared to some Theists.

Would you agree that everyone has beliefs? (Besides babies).

~PEACE~


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## gorillagrower0840 (Jan 9, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Yes, I agree that some Atheists are more scientific, rational, logical, etc., compared to some Theists.
> 
> Would you agree that everyone has beliefs? (Besides babies).
> 
> ~PEACE~


Yes, I would agree that everyone has beliefs. Even if people don't realize they do. And all conscious beings for that matter, including animals, have beliefs. 

I believe even babies have beliefs, even if they don't realize it.

For example, I believe that a baby believes that if it cries it will get attention or food from someone.

A tiger believes that if he can be quiet and sneak up on prey, or if he can run fast and chase down that prey, he can kill that prey and eat it and help cure his hunger and continue to survive.


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## Skylor (Jan 9, 2015)

I see religion as giving some people hope or something to believe in.

Personally I feel churches are a waste of time. Can't believe people waste their time over there yet if that what those people wanna do with their life, well thats their right to do so.

I don't know if there is a god or not and if there is a god, how did that happen, who made god ? If I had to worship something, I rather worship the sun, least the sun gives us life and without the sun, we all be dead and gone. There used to be a sun god until we understood how the sun works. Now it can't be a "god" so god is now something we can not see....whatever, I got other stuff to think about and do...I have morals, I'm going to heaven if there is a heaven and if there isn't, yuck, I better keep trying to have fun here on Earth while I still can, lol


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 9, 2015)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> Why should not anyone believe in nothing?


Because double negative


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 11, 2015)

Skylor said:


> I see religion as giving some people hope or something to believe in.
> 
> Personally I feel churches are a waste of time. Can't believe people waste their time over there yet if that what those people wanna do with their life, well thats their right to do so.
> 
> I don't know if there is a god or not and if there is a god, how did that happen, who made god ? If I had to worship something, I rather worship the sun, least the sun gives us life and without the sun, we all be dead and gone. There used to be a sun god until we understood how the sun works. Now it can't be a "god" so god is now something we can not see....whatever, I got other stuff to think about and do...I have morals, I'm going to heaven if there is a heaven and if there isn't, yuck, I better keep trying to have fun here on Earth while I still can, lol


Are you an Agnostic? Like Me?

~PEACE~


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## quantumwot (Jan 11, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?
> 
> What are your sentiments on this?
> 
> ~PEACE~


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## quantumwot (Jan 11, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?
> 
> What are your sentiments on this?
> 
> ~PEACE~


 your bitterness lie's deep young child ..... Almost domant .

one wise thought on your behalf will sweeten the bitterness.

that is all


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 11, 2015)

quantumwot said:


> your bitterness lie's deep young child ..... Almost domant .
> 
> one wise thought on your behalf will sweeten the bitterness.
> 
> that is all


Why?

What do you believe?

For the record, I was a Christian for most of My Life, until the year 2008.

~PEACE~


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## Zenogears (Jan 11, 2015)

The beautiful thing about life, is that we get to pick whatever we want to believe in. The hilarious part, is making fun of the people who believe in ridiculous things like religion! Oh I bask in the joy of them getting so butthurt over me making fun of an idea they think is true! Hehehe!


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 11, 2015)

Zenogears said:


> The beautiful thing about life, is that we get to pick whatever we want to believe in. The hilarious part, is making fun of the people who believe in ridiculous things like religion! Oh I bask in the joy of them getting so butthurt over me making fun of an idea they think is true! Hehehe!


Haha, nice  So, the beautiful thing about life is that you can ridicule it?


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## quantumwot (Jan 11, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why?
> 
> What do you believe?
> 
> ...



God complex
A god complex is an unshakable belief characterized by consistently inflated feelings of personal ability, privilege, or infallibility. A person with a god complex may refuse to admit the possibility of their error or failure, even in the face of complex or intractable problems or difficult or impossible tasks, or may regard their personal opinions as unquestionably correct. The individual may disregard the rules of society and require special consideration or privileges ... Correct 
God complex is not a clinical term or diagnosable disorder, and does not appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders ..... So don't worry.
The first person to use the term god-complex was Ernest Jones (1913-51) ( if im correct) His description in Applied Psycho-Analysis, describes the god complex as belief that one is a god........... This god complex started off for you as "Jesus complex" ....... Correct 

have you got a god complex or a Jesus complex , ? ...... Or is it neither .. WE DECIDE!!


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 11, 2015)

quantumwot said:


> God complex
> A god complex is an unshakable belief characterized by consistently inflated feelings of personal ability, privilege, or infallibility. A person with a god complex may refuse to admit the possibility of their error or failure, even in the face of complex or intractable problems or difficult or impossible tasks, or may regard their personal opinions as unquestionably correct. The individual may disregard the rules of society and require special consideration or privileges ... Correct
> God complex is not a clinical term or diagnosable disorder, and does not appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders ..... So don't worry.
> The first person to use the term god-complex was Ernest Jones (1913-51) ( if im correct) His description in Applied Psycho-Analysis, describes the god complex as belief that one is a god........... This god complex started off for you as "Jesus complex" ....... Correct
> ...


Neither, I do not believe I am God or Jesus.

I believe I am the Christ- the Prophet- the King- the Creator- the Savior- the Messiah- the Lord- the Life- etc..

~PEACE~


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## CC Dobbs (Jan 11, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?
> 
> What are your sentiments on this?
> 
> ~PEACE~


I believe in Me and Me only as the One.

Bow to none others as they are false and make Me mad. 

Put not forth your own thoughts but take mine as your own and flourish upon high. 

Messiah that I am.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 11, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> I believe in Me and Me only as the One.
> 
> Bow to none others as they are false and make Me mad.
> 
> ...


Haha, now you are capitalizing your "M" as in Me, like I do.

~PEACE~


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## quantumwot (Jan 11, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Neither, I do not believe I am God or Jesus.
> 
> I believe I am the Christ- the Prophet- the King- the Creator- the Savior- the Messiah- the Lord- the Life- etc..
> 
> ~PEACE~


 have you got a god complex or a Jesus complex , ? ...... Or is it neither .. WE DECIDE!!




i said WE as in EVERYONE decides!!! Not u , you have failed, it is OUR ( as in WE and EVERYONE ) decision that you GEORGE MANUAL OLIVIA ARE A FALSE CHRIST ....... That is all .


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 12, 2015)

quantumwot said:


> have you got a god complex or a Jesus complex , ? ...... Or is it neither .. WE DECIDE!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what does everyone decide?

~PEACE~


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## abe supercro (Jan 12, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> So what does everyone decide?
> 
> ~PEACE~


That you're full of messianic shit, glomming onto attention while pretending to be 'special' and have original ideas. 

You brag about exploiting your time in psychiatric facilities for getting free food, blow jobs and "atta-boys", from other committed patients; Same for your time in county jail. You brag about working the system in order to gain psychiatric disability checks to live off, yet mother already puts a roof over your head. 

In general, you're not an honest human being, jesus christ. We all find ways to entertain ourselves and get ahead in life, you certainly have your methods george. In the end you won't be known so much for being staggeringly dumb, more so backwards.

~peace~


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 12, 2015)

abe supercro said:


> That you're full of messianic shit, glomming onto attention while pretending to be 'special' and have original ideas.
> 
> You brag about exploiting your time in psychiatric facilities for getting free food, blow jobs and "atta-boys", from other committed patients; Same for your time in county jail. You brag about working the system in order to gain psychiatric disability checks to live off, yet mother already puts a roof over your head.
> 
> ...


Whatever...

I plan on growing again, and that will be My job. But I can't start growing again until I save up enough money to pay the bills, buy new growing supplies, etc..

Soon enough, I will be just like all of the other growers.

~PEACE~


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## cc2012 (Jan 12, 2015)

Never been One to be "Like" everyone else Me, And Religion is outdated! and just causes Problems...Mostly...

Don't Cost a lot to start Growing again..... Few CFL's(Mh/Hps if You can sell summat and Invest a little more) and some Matt White Paint...Anything is possible IF you want it enough...

atb


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 12, 2015)

cc2012 said:


> Never been One to be "Like" everyone else Me, And Religion is outdated! and just causes Problems...Mostly...
> 
> Don't Cost a lot to start Growing again..... Few CFL's(Mh/Hps if You can sell summat and Invest a little more) and some Matt White Paint...Anything is possible IF you want it enough...
> 
> atb


I want to be fully prepared, so I don't go broke from paying the bills before I harvest.

I have all of the equipment in My house, but I probably need a new TDS meter, and PH meter: along with other things.

Plus, I need to fix My plumbing before I move back to My house, there are some broken pipes.

~PEACE~


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## abe supercro (Jan 12, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Whatever...
> 
> I plan on growing again, and that will be My job. But I can't start growing again until I save up enough money to pay the bills, buy new growing supplies, etc..
> 
> ...


I doubt you'll be like other growers. Try to start smoking weed, no don't really lol.

Budget for at least six months savings before your new grow turns around. I'd wish u luck with that endeavor, but how does one really "save" while avoiding employment? you'll need a minimum of 15k to start-up in another state on a shoe string budget.

In the meantime be the non-smoker non-grower that only talks about growing way off in the future (you've already done this for years). get somewhat drunk each evening living with mom at age 30, on psychiatric disability, and troll a cannabis forum with your misguided self aggrandizement notions about being a half-baked messiah. By all means keep-the-dream-alive, but pick one dream and drop the horseshit dude.

George You, my friend, are F'n Troll.


~peace~


----------



## Nevaeh420 (Jan 12, 2015)

abe supercro said:


> I doubt you'll be like other growers. Try to start smoking weed, no don't really lol.
> 
> Budget for at least six months savings before your new grow turns around. I'd wish u luck with that endeavor, but how does one really "save" while avoiding employment? you'll need a minimum of 15k to start-up in another state on a shoe string budget.
> 
> ...


Pro tip- if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all!

~PEACE~


----------



## gorillagrower0840 (Jan 14, 2015)

Skylor said:


> I see religion as giving some people hope or something to believe in.
> 
> Personally I feel churches are a waste of time. Can't believe people waste their time over there yet if that what those people wanna do with their life, well thats their right to do so.
> 
> I don't know if there is a god or not and if there is a god, how did that happen, who made god ? If I had to worship something, I rather worship the sun, least the sun gives us life and without the sun, we all be dead and gone. There used to be a sun god until we understood how the sun works. Now it can't be a "god" so god is now something we can not see....whatever, I got other stuff to think about and do...I have morals, I'm going to heaven if there is a heaven and if there isn't, yuck, I better keep trying to have fun here on Earth while I still can, lol


----------



## tyler.durden (Jan 14, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I want to be fully prepared, so I don't go broke from paying the bills before I harvest.
> 
> I have all of the equipment in My house, but I probably need a new TDS meter, and PH meter: along with other things.
> 
> ...


You do realize now that you've posted your identity many, many times on this forum, any house you own can be easily watched by law enforcement. Anybody you rub the wrong way can make a simple phone call and your jig would be up. Just something to keep in mind, as I doubt you've thought this through...


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 15, 2015)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> View attachment 3331821


http://gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html


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## quantumwot (Jan 15, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> . Anybody you rub the wrong way can make a simple phone call and your jig would be up. ...


 so that would be everyone then .


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## gorillagrower0840 (Jan 15, 2015)

eye exaggerate said:


> http://gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html


Your point is...?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 15, 2015)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> Your point is...?


Did you read?


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## quantumwot (Jan 15, 2015)

LMFAO !!


----------



## Zenogears (Jan 19, 2015)

eye exaggerate said:


> Haha, nice  So, the beautiful thing about life is that you can ridicule it?


No, just funny


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## quantumwot (Jan 19, 2015)

http://scentednectar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-myth-of-cannabis-as-cure-all.html?m=1


----------



## Nevaeh420 (Jan 20, 2015)

quantumwot said:


> http://scentednectar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-myth-of-cannabis-as-cure-all.html?m=1


Molecular Biologist Discovers THC Kills Cancer Cells: Dr. Christina Sanchez






~PEACE~


----------



## Mad Lab (Jan 20, 2015)

The problem with too many Atheists that comment on most religion, in this case Christianity, is that MOST arn't informed on ANY of what these theologies teach. 

It's a waste of my time personally, to argue with someone who has never studied the Bible. You form an opinion based on alot of things but not on the one thing that's important in conversation: the theology itself. Really your opinion is humorous at best.

It makes sense not to really dissect most other religions because there are red flags we know violate our subjective moral values. Also lack of evidence.

The Bible has quite a bit of evidence. Not to mention historical evidence. Most historians (even non-Christians) will tell you based on the guidelines for determining historical evidence, Jesus existed. 

Explaining the motives for the Apostles to say, use Jesus and make up a theology after he passed away isn't far fetched. That's IF the theology was useful to a person or group in power. That's IF the theology helped execute a plan for power.

Problem is, when you look at true Christianity, like Protestants (not Catholics, The Roman Empire created Catholicism because the philosophy of Jesus spread too quickly and they couldn't control it. They decided to use it to their advantage and ADD all this mumbo jumbo, mostly contradicting the very thing they base they're religion on: The Bible and the theology Jesus proposed. This is why Catholic priests wear silk robes and gold, while Jesus preached against such things and basically wore a potato sack for his clothes) (Mormons also contradict a book they sponsor: The Bible) you truly realize it's the only religion that would be HARMFUL to an empire seeking control. This is why the Roman Empire had to put it's twist on it.

People take the theology of Jesus for granted. You sit here in the United States taking for granted why you love it here: This country was set up on the morality of Jesus. You have the freedom to oppose Jesus here because of Jesus. You think you know right from wrong "subjectively" instead of "objectively".

If I placed you Atheists in Islam tomorrow you would soon beg for Jesus and his philosophy of PURE LOVE. 

People also think they are too smart for Jesus because we have great science today! Thats so funny, most mock the Bible "why doesnt it tell me more about science and not about metaphors and "fairy tales".

It's because thousands of years ago noone could comprehend science! And God could give a fuck if you understand the science of the world, thats not going to make the world better for anyone, not even yourself. It's a spiritual guide that has stood the test of time. Jesus must of had something going if he is the most known human being to exist in human history!

Just an opinion from someone who has read and STUDIED the Quran, Torah, most of translated Hindu Scriptures, Book of Mormon, and the Bible. 

Anyone who has truly studied theologies please chime in, would love to hear from you.


----------



## quantumwot (Jan 20, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Molecular Biologist Discovers THC Kills Cancer Cells: Dr. Christina Sanchez
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 i think we've discovered that if it really REALLY did cure cancer better than medical ways. ........ It would make WORLD NEWS and not a youtube vid ..... A bit like you ha


----------



## Nevaeh420 (Jan 21, 2015)

quantumwot said:


> i think we've discovered that if it really REALLY did cure cancer better than medical ways. ........ It would make WORLD NEWS and not a youtube vid ..... A bit like you ha


How many times are you going to spam the same exact thing?

I already gave you a rebuttal.

~PEACE~


----------



## Nevaeh420 (Jan 21, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> The Bible has quite a bit of evidence. Not to mention historical evidence. Most historians (even non-Christians) will tell you based on the guidelines for determining historical evidence, Jesus existed.


Even if its a fact that there was a historical Jesus, the Biblical Jesus is a fallacious myth.

The fact is that we probably don't know what the historical Jesus actually said: I highly doubt the disciples could quote Jesus verbatum, especially with lengthy speeches.

And we know that the disciples made up blatant lies anyways, because no one can perform miracles: so who is to say that they didn't make up Jesus' alleged sentiment or words?

Yes, its possible that there was a historical Jesus that the New Testament was based off of, but the Biblical Jesus is a fallacious myth, and I don't believe in Jesus because of the Bible, because the Bible is not even credible.

Most likely, the stories about Jesus are extremely exaggerated at the very least, and maybe Jesus didn't even exist at most. 

The Bible is not even credible.

~PEACE~


----------



## Mad Lab (Jan 21, 2015)

While you may contest that Jesus was a fallacy because these miracles are 'impossible', that's where I think your making a mistake. 

First off, science is a funny thing. This word you use "impossible" and "truth" are very touchy terms and in fact, any real scientist would refrain from using them. 

Why? because science doesnt teach truth. All it does is provide the best theory possible at the time which makes it the most valid. But as we all know that theory is most likely going to be proven wrong and improved or tossed out altogether in due time, as is most theory. 

So if I told you something is true today but might not be true tomorrow... was it true in the first place? not by definition. So, no.

So when you tell me Jesus could not have preformed these miracles, here is a hypothesis to throw at you. Prove it is impossible for me:

Humans use how much of their brain? 10%? Ok, well what if we unlocked the other 90%? Or even another 40%? It's just hypothesis but most would agree that these "miracles" like healing sick etc etc could most certainly be preformed. 

And there is a mythbuster type show for biblical miracles that prove science could have implemented them given the right circumstance, like one they did on parting a sea.

I think your looking too much at science my friend, when science lied to us about almost everything. Today we know it lied. But you still trust it so much.. funny. It wont make you happy or content in this world. I urge you to find what will. 

I love science. But worship it? no thanks. What I would love to debate with an Atheist about is not science vs god (thats silly, god speaks in numbers, he is science). But lets talk about what in Jesus ' overall philosophy is not true to you or violates your own objective/subjective moral values. 

The thing about if historical Jesus exist, If would have been near 'impossible' for him or the apostles to lie to the masses. They would have been stoned immediately. You claim miracles in those days, you better come through. And the odds everything was made up after his death with the apostles? Not likely men would suffer and die for nothing. Because they wouldnt have recieve any special treatment from pushing this theology. 

These non-christian historians I speak of also conclude that based on the requirements for determining historical evidence it is overly likely that the resurrection took place. Funny thing to hear an athiest or agnostic historian say "yeah Jesus was real and the ressurection was likely real, but It's unlikely the Bible wasnt altered or changed in 2000 yrs, so im not a christian"

I love the dead sea scrolls, trying to hide them from the masses for so many years. They proved that in over a 500 year period the Old Testiment was not changed at all! Amazing, no? Mankind, who changes everything in the name of power and money didnt change the book when it would have been so easy to thousands of years ago? Now THAT's a miracle.


----------



## quantumwot (Jan 21, 2015)

see the LIGHT George 




































































a cheese tomato pizza's good ...... Yes ?



sub-conciously ...... Correct .... 


peace peace peace


----------



## tyler.durden (Jan 21, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Even if its a fact that there was a historical Jesus, the Biblical Jesus is a fallacious myth.
> 
> The fact is that we probably don't know what the historical Jesus actually said: I highly doubt the disciples could quote Jesus verbatum, especially with lengthy speeches.
> 
> ...


If the bible is not credible, then how can you reason that you fulfilling some of its prophecies is support for your divinity? If it is not credible, its prophecies are mere guesses and the fact that you think you've fulfilled some of them is meaningless coincidence. I'd love to hear the explanation for this...


----------



## tyler.durden (Jan 21, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Why? because science doesnt teach truth. All it does is provide the best theory possible at the time which makes it the most valid. But as we all know that theory is most likely going to be proven wrong and improved or tossed out altogether in due time, as is most theory.


Theory is the highest form of knowledge in science, and the term does not mean the same as it does in casual, layman vernacular. Scientific theory certainly allows for incorporating new data as our technology to discover such data improves, and that is the beauty of science. It is a dynamic process, not a static one as most all religion is. You say most scientific theory is proven incorrect or tossed out, would you please provide links to credible sources to support this statement? I study science, and I don't know what you a referring to...



> Humans use how much of their brain? 10%? Ok, well what if we unlocked the other 90%? Or even another 40%? It's just hypothesis but most would agree that these "miracles" like healing sick etc etc could most certainly be preformed.


We use all of our brain, the percentage thing is a myth - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_percent_of_brain_myth



> And there is a mythbuster type show for biblical miracles that prove science could have implemented them given the right circumstance, like one they did on parting a sea.


You'd have to link to that data, I'm betting that is misinformation from bias christian website...



> I think your looking too much at science my friend, when science lied to us about almost everything. Today we know it lied. But you still trust it so much.. funny. It wont make you happy or content in this world. I urge you to find what will.


How has science lied to us about almost everything? Would you give a few examples of this?



> The thing about if historical Jesus exist, If would have been near 'impossible' for him or the apostles to lie to the masses. They would have been stoned immediately. You claim miracles in those days, you better come through. And the odds everything was made up after his death with the apostles? Not likely men would suffer and die for nothing. Because they wouldnt have recieve any special treatment from pushing this theology.


This doesn't sound right, how would ignorant, bronze age people know when they are being lied to? Please link to some credible data to support your statements here...



> These non-christian historians I speak of also conclude that based on the requirements for determining historical evidence it is overly likely that the resurrection took place. Funny thing to hear an athiest or agnostic historian say "yeah Jesus was real and the ressurection was likely real, but It's unlikely the Bible wasnt altered or changed in 2000 yrs, so im not a christian"


There are some respected scholars that believe Jesus did not actually exist. But forget about that. I have never heard of a non theist historian claim the supernatural resurrection was likely real, pretty please link to that for us...


----------



## Mad Lab (Jan 21, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> Theory is the highest form of knowledge in science, and the term does not mean the same as it does in casual, layman vernacular. Scientific theory certainly allows for incorporating new data as our technology to discover such data improves, and that is the beauty of science. It is a dynamic process, not a static one as most all religion is. You say most scientific theory is proven incorrect or tossed out, would you please provide links to credible sources to support this statement? I study science, and I don't know what you a referring to...


http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-famous-scientific-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-wrong.php

My point exactly, people don't understand that a theory is not "A 100% TRUE FACT" so to speak. The best theory is considered fact but can change or improve or be thrown out.



tyler.durden said:


> We use all of our brain, the percentage thing is a myth - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_percent_of_brain_myth


Ah, you got me there, didn't you? Well, it was pulled out of thin air and I really didn't look into it.

My point is we don't know everything. To say it's impossible for a man to walk on water or heal a sick person is just a theory. Theories based on facts are great, but they arn't always 100% true, are they?



tyler.durden said:


> You'd have to link to that data, I'm betting that is misinformation from bias christian website...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11383620



tyler.durden said:


> How has science lied to us about almost everything? Would you give a few examples of this?


I don't mean to say it that way. Scientist don't look at science like a normal everyday person with an opinion on it. A normal person's outlook on a proven fact is that it is 100% true. I can't remember but a fact is what, approx 95% true?
Failure to meet one challenge makes a law untrue, but there's always new challenges possible in the future.

Lets see the Definition of Fact:
*Fact:* In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as “true.” Truth in science, however, is never final and what is accepted as a fact today may be modified or even discarded tomorrow.
*Theory:* In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses.



tyler.durden said:


> This doesn't sound right, how would ignorant, bronze age people know when they are being lied to? Please link to some credible data to support your statements here...


I can't explain the Bronx Age to you in a post. Please research that yourself and let me know if that is ignorant.

If you say your the son of God, do you really think those ignorant people are just going to believe you? that's very ignorant of you, don't you think?

People most likely wanted proof before they believed in this messiah. Name another man in history that claimed to be a god and stood a great test of time? Jesus is unique because as ignorant as these people were at that time, why did no other crazy prophet claimed to be god and everyone believed? And proved it by the ressurection (or at least proved to history)



tyler.durden said:


> There are some respected scholars that believe Jesus did not actually exist. But forget about that. I have never heard of a non theist historian claim the supernatural resurrection was likely real, pretty please link to that for us...


Forgive me, I ment to say that some non-christians scholars state it is a historical fact that some of Jesus’ followers came to believe that he had been raised from the dead soon after his execution.

The same scholars on the subject believe the Apostles arn't lying and no motive was evident, (historically we look at the evidence we have, no room for hypothesis for what could have happened) and their would be no reason for them to die for a liar. Bart Ehrman is apparently hung up on what happened after couldnt be the same word of Jesus. Scribes would have had to change words as time passed throughout copying the gospels.

E.P. Sanders:

That Jesus’ followers (and later Paul) had resurrection experiences is, in my judgment, a fact. What the reality was that gave rise to the experiences I do not know. “I do not regard deliberate fraud as a worthwhile explanation. Many of the people in these lists were to spend the rest of their lives proclaiming that they had seen the risen Lord, and several of them would die for their cause. Moreover, a calculated deception should have produced great unanimity. Instead, there seem to have been competitors: ‘I saw him first!’ ‘No! I did.’ Paul’s tradition that 500 people saw Jesus at the same time has led some people to suggest that Jesus’ followers suffered mass hysteria. But mass hysteria does not explain the other traditions.” “Finally we know that after his death his followers experienced what they described as the ‘resurrection’: the appearance of a living but transformed person who had actually died. They believed this, they lived it, and they died for it.”[1]

Bart Ehrman:

It is a historical fact that some of Jesus’ followers came to believe that he had been raised from the dead soon after his execution. We know some of these believers by name; one of them, the apostle Paul, claims quite plainly to have seen Jesus alive after his death. Thus, for the historian, Christianity begins after the death of Jesus, not with the resurrection itself, but with the belief in the resurrection.[2]

Ehrman also says:

We can say with complete certainty that some of his disciples at some later time insisted that . . . he soon appeared to them, convincing them that he had been raised from the dead.[3]

Ehrman also goes onto say:

Historians, of course, have no difficulty whatsoever speaking about the belief in Jesus’ resurrection, since this is a matter of public record.[4]



Why, then, did some of the disciples claim to see Jesus alive after his crucifixion? I don’t doubt at all that some disciples claimed this. We don’t have any of their written testimony, but Paul, writing about twenty-five years later, indicates that this is what they claimed, and I don’t think he is making it up. And he knew are least a couple of them, whom he met just three years after the event (Galatians 1:18-19).[5]

Reginald Fuller:

The disciples thought that they had witnessed Jesus’ appearances, which, however they are explained, “is a fact upon which both believer and unbeliever may agree.[6]​
https://chab123.wordpress.com/2014/04/26/bart-ehrman-the-resurrection-of-jesus-and-the-vision-hypothesis/

http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html[/QUOTE]


----------



## Nevaeh420 (Jan 22, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> If the bible is not credible,


I am sure there is some credible information in the Bible. But, to generalize, the Bible is not a credible piece of literature: but I am sure there are some facts contained in the Bible. Even a good science fiction book will contain some facts, but the premise of the sci-fi book is fiction. I believe the same is true with the Bible, there are SOME facts in the Bible (in order to SEEM credible), but the main premise of the Bible is fiction. Do you understand this? and does this make sense?



tyler.durden said:


> then how can you reason that you fulfilling some of its prophecies is support for your divinity?


First of all, I am not claiming "divinity", because I am not claiming to be God. I believe we are all gods, and everyone is divine as anyone else.

I have not fulfilled many Bible prophecies, but I have fulfilled many Bible STORIES from the New Testament, in My subjective opinion.

But the fact is that the Bible is the most published book EVER, probably the most read book EVER, and billions of people believe the Bible is "the Word of God": regardless whether I believe the Bible has a lot of fallacious myths in it, or not.

And all of the parallels I have with the New Testament are (mostly) falsifiable- they can be proven by My records. And the Bible is considered, by the billions of Christians, to be "the Word of God," and I can literally, empirically prove that I have these said parallels with these said Bible stories. Its My opinion that I have fulfilled many Bible stories in My Life. I cannot prove every parallel I have with these Bible stories, but I have vivid, unequivocal memories of these events, because they are unprovable facts. For example, one of the parallels I have with the Bible has to do with riding a horse: I cannot empirically prove that those events happened that day in the year 2008 (I believe), but I know that it happened as a fact. Some things, you just need a little faith that I am telling the Truth.

So, because the Bible is considered as "the Word of God" to the billions of alleged Christians, I would assert that the myraid parallels I have with the New Testament is evidence that I have myraid parallels with the alleged "Word of God." And I personally believe, in My subjective opinion, that I am the fulfillment to the New Testament.

So, regardless what I believe about the credibility of the Bible, literally billions of alleged Christians believe the Bible is the credible "Word of God", and that has to say something about the Bible.

Its not what I believe, its the fact that billions of people are allegedly Christians. I am in the minority with My novel Spirituality, right now.

The majority of Christians would say I am erroneous, and their Bible is the infallible Word of God, so the majority of Christians don't care what I believe. And belief is such a powerful thing.

Is this a logical argument? Does this make sense?







tyler.durden said:


> If it is not credible, its prophecies are mere guesses


Yes, all prophecies are "mere guesses", unless you KNOW the future: but some prophecies are more plausible compared to others. I don't believe anyone knows the future for certain, because World War 3 could happen any time, and the countries could nuke humanity to extinction. But this does not seem to be as plausible as the human race will probably continue throughout the AGEs, but do we KNOW anything about the future for certain? My guess is no. Sure, I believe all of My prophecies are inevitable with enough time, but its still just My best educated guess, and its contingent upon many factors.

But, for all I know, the New Testament could have been written by aliens, or time travels, that KNEW exactly what was going to unfold in the future: because I cannot explain WHY I inadvertantly fulfilled so many New Testament stories. For example, I remember you, Tyler, saying that if you are in space, traveling towards (or away from) the earth, you will be able to see the future or the past? is this correct? So I really have no notion WHY I inadvertantly fulfilled so many New Testament stories?





tyler.durden said:


> and the fact that you think you've fulfilled some of them is meaningless coincidence.


Maybe the fact that I have so many parallels with the New Testament is "meaningless coincidence" to you, or any non-believer, but there is a lot of meaning to Me. The facts about Myself might seem unimportant to some people, but they are very important to Me. This is called being subjective. Even though I have many objective facts about Myself that I can empirically prove, its a subjective notion if people want to see the unequivocal parallels between Me and the Christ.



tyler.durden said:


> I'd love to hear the explanation for this...


Did I fulfill all of your (expectations and) dreams?

~PEACE~


----------



## Mad Lab (Jan 22, 2015)

We can argue fact vs fiction all day. We wont go anywhere will we? 

What are your spiritual beliefs? Agnostic or Atheist? 

Once a person accepts that Jesus was telling the truth, one can truly retain what the bible is trying to deliver. If that hasnt happened, of course your going to see it as a fable that you can dissect scientifically. As I said before, this isnt a science book, it is a spiritual guide. So lets stop arguing for the fact vs fiction point because a scientific fact isnt considered 100% truth so let's both agree science cant explain a supernatural force if it exists(it may in the future, you never know). Science explains natural phenomenon. 

Lets look at the book as fiction as you say. Stories that were created to dissect the human condition and provide the best remedy for it. Things noone can prove to you until you have lived life, made mistakes.

Question for you:
When you do bad things and hurt people and get away with it without ANYONE truly finding out. Do you believe that "life" or "karma" will punish you, at least somewhere down the line?

Personally, when I lived a life im not proud of, I would experience punishment from an unknown source. I doubt when I lived that life I just got unlucky so many times after doing bad things and then when i stopped, i got real lucky and good things happened to me? 

I and or anyone cant prove that when you do bad things, bad things happen to you... but wisdom is the proof to individuals that experience these things.

So do you believe nothing bad happens to you when you do bad things?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Jan 23, 2015)

100% of the brain. But, which percentage do we use consciously? (the average is split 10%, 50%, and 40%) Deeper down are functions we are not in control of. Some who have spent their lives contemplating have increased the 'readily available' percentage, and can likely see and do things that others cannot.

Anywho, the upper echelon of old would not seem to agree with today's all-or-nothing attitude toward reality.

"As the development of new technology allowed physicists to peer into unknown territory, they found data that they could model with mathematics, but not talk about, nor understand, with their traditional views of reality. Millennia before, Eastern mystics had run into similar problems with their exploration of an intuitive comprehension of reality. When physicists and Eastern mystics attempt to put their understanding into words they sound amazingly similar.

"The general notions about human understanding...which are illustrated by discoveries in atomic physics are not in the nature of things wholly unfamiliar, wholly unheard of, or new. Even in our own culture they have a history, and in Buddhist and Hindu thought a more considerable and central place. What we shall find is an exemplification, and encouragement, and a refinement of old wisdom." Robert Oppenheimer, 1954.

"For a parallel to the lesson of atomic theory...[we must turn] to those kinds of epistemological problems with which already thinkers like the Buddha and Lao Tzu have been confronted, when trying to harmonize our position as spectators and actors in the great drama of existence." Niels Bohr, 1958

"The great scientific contribution in theoretical physics that has come from Japan since the last war may be an indication of a certain relationship between philosophical ideas in the tradition of the Far East and the philosophical substance of quantum theory." Werner Heisenberg, 1958"


----------



## Mad Lab (Jan 23, 2015)

Eye, very interesting. I can't pose an opinion on something I havent researched, but it was very odd to me that nueroscience had discovered you use 100% percent of the brain.

Before I become a Christian, what really pushed me into "the light" was studying the history of mysticism and gnosticism, very interesting subject.

Most gnostic sects these days trace roots back to the children of Seth and it's relationship with the Judea deity was very evident. Throughout history these keepers of spiritual knowledge and scientific knowledge were very important to the human race fr without them we wouldn't be where we are today.

There was a controversial time after Jesus' death, where the Orthadox Christianity that the Apostles where spreading and traditional gnosticism had to split ways. While sects of these gnostics believed in the messiah (as we know, the Magi, or wise men, were the forefront of believers in Jesus). Gospels where then found containing teachings of Jesus and gnosticism but contradict the teachings in the Gospels contained now in the Bible. The new teachings of Jesus Christ seemed to have changed the view on the need of mysticism. Almost realizing that the human race at this time had reached a point that needed a change. We had made it to the point where the spiritual guidance from the Judea-Christian God had become final, and Jesus Christ put the final stamp. I view the New Testament as God saying, "Any prophets claims of new information or guidance pertaining to me is false and do not believe this false prophecy. Everything you need to live the way I want will be placed in a book by the vessel I always use to get things to you: man."

Following the Gnostics and Mystics to Magi and Celtics, it appears that after the time of Jesus is when these belief systems became more associated with occult practices and nothing to do with the true mystics, which had a spiritual connection with the Judea deity.

When you get to present day Freemasonry, this is where is it gets interesting. When entering Freemasonry you are required a few things. One of which is you must believe in a higher power. You can choose Christianity, as most do in America, or your religion of choose. The interesting part is during your induction ceremony, you place your hand on the Bible and swear to it that you will place Freemasonry above all. The first omission towards the advice of Jesus. You also receive a manual that includes the rules of your Freemason Lodge. Almost every manual has a few rules it in, including things such as:

187. If family or friends, coworkers or strangers, inquiry about your freemasonry activities or anything related to the secrets and rituals of freemasonry, you are instructed and permitted to lie. In doing so you are relinquished of sin.

or

193. If a fellow brother of freemasonry is in a situation where power lies in your hands to aid or assist, if it is in your power to assist, you must; unless the situation involves murder, of which you may decide against or for your brother. In doing so you are relieved of sin.

Which contradicts everything Christ said. Don't lie. Don't lie for someone who murdered someone. Don't choose a lesser canidate for a job because of a fraternity. If your a District Attorney dont let someone off because they are your brother, etc. If we all lived by this we would live in a world even worse than it is now.

When you get further in you realize that everything involved with freemasonry rituals are very Biblical. The stories are based around King Solomon and Hiram Abiff. They even mock Jesus and the Resurrection and Baptism etc.

Honestly I became a Christian after reading into Freemasonry. It was evident that the most elitist sect in the world today most likely have vested their beliefs into something very credible. With all the money and resources and access to history the average public doesnt, these people arnt going to all believe in something completely ludacris.

So why is the most elitist group in the world follow a religion (it most def is a religon) that opposes Christianity. Because thats what it does. It acknowledges Jesus and spits in his face, purposely.

Why would you oppose something that isnt real?

Thats when I decided to look more into this Jesus Christ... and what i found was more acceptable. The God the mystics loved so much was not a god of secrets. God would not leave the spirituality for special elite few.. sounds very illogical to me.


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## Mad Lab (Jan 23, 2015)

gorillagrower0840 said:


> In all honesty there is no reason anyone _should_ believe in such stuff. Religion is unnecessary, unnatural, and doesn't actually do anything. You can do everything you do without religion, and your life will not be different if you don't believe in anything. It's easy to let go of the burden of having to believe fairy tales, all religious people should try it. And I mean _truly_ _honestly_ try it with an open mind.


I tried it. 

I had money. women. friends. family. and i did my best everyday to be a good person, kind and generous, and as content as you could be without a god. 

Something was missing.

Only the blessed or lucky ones who acquire all of these things in life will truly find out that money, power or experience isnt what will the human experience is about. Well not the human experience that makes you happy. 

We are programed to believe and serve a higher power, because if we didn't, we'd have to serve ourselves or a human king (or material things, which is preferred by most in America). Both are not worth serving. A King cannot be without sin and respectable as such, and if you think you can be your own god well lets look at you: Are you a god worth serving? Ha, thats a joke. I surely am far from r someone I would ever want to worship.

"Dont worship anything." You probably would say. Well, it's not that easy. (You likely worship experiences or materials if you live by this). Evolutionary process programed us that way (I believe god set evolution in place with physical laws. Poof! I made a human being isnt his style. He would have used a process.) We need to be humbled and serve something better than us. If not, we have no reason to be a good person because there's no EFFECT for the CAUSE of misdeeds on this earth. It comes down to survival, and everyone becomes expendable when that's the case. We need a reason to love one and other because love becomes illogical in an atheist worldview as much as they try to argue against that.

If I forced you to worship one man in history... I wonder who you'd pick, after doing all your research. 





The day I figured it all out. Jesus .

That's the day my life truly became fulfilled.


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## eye exaggerate (Jan 25, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Eye, very interesting. I can't pose an opinion on something I havent researched, but it was very odd to me that nueroscience had discovered you use 100% percent of the brain.
> 
> Before I become a Christian, what really pushed me into "the light" was studying the history of mysticism and gnosticism, very interesting subject.
> 
> ...



Hi, Mad Lab. I'm not too sure about the motives behind those groups, I suppose I'd like to believe they are doing positive things. I'm sure there are bad things happening along side the good, just like real life. Who knows, though. Those groups have such a cloud of noise around them that it can make a person loopy when trying to peek in. I'm sure that most of it is metaphor for a 'journey' which obviously doesn't take place in a physical locale. If it is based on Gnosis then I don't think it would be a religion. Likely more of an adjunct to a person's religion.


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## Mad Lab (Jan 26, 2015)

As you say, apples and oranges. All you can do is look at rituals and philosophies taught and judge by that, if you wish to compare to your own values.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 30, 2015)

So far, no one has given Me a good argument WHY I should believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc..

Where is all of the proof for the Theists beliefs?

~PEACE~


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## Sure Shot (Jan 31, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?
> 
> What are your sentiments on this?
> 
> ~PEACE~


They are all saying the same thing in different ways. I present to you our Universe.


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## Mad Lab (Jan 31, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> So far, no one has given Me a good argument WHY I should believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc..
> 
> Where is all of the proof for the Theists beliefs?
> 
> ~PEACE~


The evidence is in living buddy. Live a little, learn a little, the day you realize you really dont all that you think you know, well that's the first step of your journey. 

Enjoy, and remember, keep asking yourself ,"If another man takes everything away from me, who am i, and why.


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 31, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> They are all saying the same thing in different ways. I present to you our Universe.


Who are "they"? and what are "they" saying that is the same?

~PEACE~


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## Nevaeh420 (Jan 31, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> The evidence is in living buddy. Live a little, learn a little, the day you realize you really dont all that you think you know, well that's the first step of your journey.
> 
> Enjoy, and remember, keep asking yourself ,"If another man takes everything away from me, who am i, and why.


I heard that a famous Atheist author, actually became a Theist, after studing the complexity of DNA, and all of the information contained in DNA.

I forget his name, or I would link you to an article.

~PEACE~


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## Sure Shot (Jan 31, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Who are "they"? and what are "they" saying that is the same?
> 
> ~PEACE~


Pick your story.  This is the "never-ending" story. Told in such a way that children will listen. For instance, use what they refer to as your third eye while looking at that earlier image. In other words see it as literary and not literal. Santa Claus is Saturn and Rudolph has a bright nose to guide the sleigh. Jingle bells has a one horse open sleigh. We are all in Santa's Workshop. The creator is the developer devil. He reaps what he sows. Imagine if you will, a wondrous journey. As a single/soul energy's travels. A good way would be floating a leaf. As the energy leaves the farther/father it has to traverse all the other bodies(Planets/Stars) in the stream. These bodies cause eddies in the current and push and pull upon the leaves that pass like wind. This action has a reaction on the vessel and the soul. Spirit and Spiral are the same. This spiral synchronizes(Sin-Chronos) with yours becoming the "DNA" strand. Together the 3 are, Mind(e), Body, Spirit. Egyptians would proudly depict their animal spirit. The Chinese are the ones whom have kept that math sacred. If you look for your sign in the Chinese zodiac you will have a way better understanding of that spirit we all wrestle with in or 20(tweens/in between signs). The other signs are for children. I know it's a lot to take in but I have just recently cracked the code, Literally! For instance, when I showed that image to a well known researcher in the field just hours ago, he was ecstatic! He has been working on this for 30 years and was a big inspiration for me. His name is Santos Bonacci. I have built my own website and there are videos on there to help grasp this. I would recommend watching my 2 minute video on Genesis first, truthtokens.com/genesis. Next go on to, truthtokens/astrology. The Old Testament is saying the same thing in different words. This is from the Old Testament.


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## Grojak (Jan 31, 2015)

Eh those that go to church every sunday miss out on so much life…. weather permitting I'm usually and hour or more into a hike up a beautiful mountain trail by the time most people get to church…. much better things to do with your life than worship false deities…


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## Sure Shot (Jan 31, 2015)

Grojak said:


> Eh those that go to church every sunday miss out on so much life…. weather permitting I'm usually and hour or more into a hike up a beautiful mountain trail by the time most people get to church…. much better things to do with your life than worship false deities…


Yes, the Norse would never bow to their VI(6)Kings. It would have belittled you, therefore been disrespectful to the "Gods".


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## Mad Lab (Jan 31, 2015)

There are more famous Atheist scientists, lawyers and philosophers that became Theists after trying to disprove the Bible and Christianity then there are famous Theists that became Atheists. 

You ask for proof but that's where your failing. As many will tell you, there is no solid proof for god and even less proof for proving there is no god. I've never heard a scientist say they think they will ever prove creation. So let's get off the proof topic and talk philosophy and theology which have nothing to do with the proof your seeking.


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## Mad Lab (Jan 31, 2015)

Grojak said:


> Eh those that go to church every sunday miss out on so much life…. weather permitting I'm usually and hour or more into a hike up a beautiful mountain trail by the time most people get to church…. much better things to do with your life than worship false deities…


I live in lake Tahoe. I possibly do more hiking than you and I dont goto church. 

What do you choose to worship Grojak? You seem to be real smart right, so don't say "i dont worship anything"

Tell us what you worship. If it's good, maybe we will all convert. ha.


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## Sure Shot (Jan 31, 2015)

[


Mad Lab said:


> There are more famous Atheist scientists, lawyers and philosophers that became Theists after trying to disprove the Bible and Christianity then there are famous Theists that became Atheists.
> 
> You ask for proof but that's where your failing. As many will tell you, there is no solid proof for god and even less proof for proving there is no god. I've never heard a scientist say they think they will ever prove creation. So let's get off the proof topic and talk philosophy and theology which have nothing to do with the proof your seeking.


Mathematics never lie


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## Sure Shot (Jan 31, 2015)

Follow Dorothy(Virgo) as the twister puts her off bearings and she lands on a witch(Libra) leaving only cup shapes that turn out to be slippers. Following the yellow brick road she gets back on path. Where she meets the lion(Leo), scarecrow(scarab), and the T(w)inMan(Gemini). She goes on to the land of Oz(x)-(Taurus), where she is led to the Wizard(Aries). Off to the West to kill the witch on a broom(Scorpio). Chased by flying mokeys shooting arrows(Sagitarius) she climbs a steep staircase(Capricorn/Goat) to find a bucket of water (Aqaurius/Lazarus). Splash the bucket of death on the witch and off to tap her slippers(Pisces) together. No place like home gentlemen, no place like home.


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## Mad Lab (Jan 31, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I heard that a famous Atheist author, actually became a Theist, after studing the complexity of DNA, and all of the information contained in DNA.
> 
> I forget his name, or I would link you to an article.
> 
> ~PEACE~


I tried to find a DNA Scientist Deist turned Atheist source (which I'm sure there are quite a few) but all that turned up on a search was Atheist DNA Scientist turned Deist. LOL.

I think Atheist spend too much time trying to disprove a religion, mostly Christianity, as opposed to trying to prove it. When you seek knowledge on a subject you need to be biased, as I was with other religions I studied. So I would suggest trying to PROVE the things you WANT to DISPROVE. Then you might get somewhere.

Here's a Atheist who became a Deist after studying DNA for his whole life. lol

http://www.christianpost.com/news/renowned-atheist-turned-deist-antony-flew-dies-at-87-44761/

_Anthony Flew, who was 87 at the time of his death, was one of the best-known atheists of his generation, arguing that people should presuppose atheism until evidence of God surfaces.

And that’s precisely what he did until 2004, when he said “the findings of more than 50 years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design.”_


Here's another:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/

_I am a scientist and a believer, and I find no conflict between those world views.
As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God's language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God's plan. 

I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked "What do you believe, doctor?", I began searching for answers. _


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## Mad Lab (Jan 31, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> [
> 
> 
> Mathematics never lie View attachment 3342805 View attachment 3342806


Not sure what you are implying. That the 'math' of DNA proves that creation came from.... not god?


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## Mad Lab (Jan 31, 2015)

Check out Ravi Zacherias debates against Atheists. I like that guy, too many Christians don't have any information regarding their beliefs, which is ignorant and makes Christianity as a whole look bad.


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## Sure Shot (Jan 31, 2015)

Do you know what the mathematics of a hex (carbon atom) is? This is Saturn.  
Do you know the mathematics of Saturn's rings? phi  A.K.A. Fibonacci Spiral

Saturn puts out more energy then it takes in.


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## Mad Lab (Jan 31, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> Do you know what the mathematics of a hex (carbon atom) is?View attachment 3342818 This is Saturn. View attachment 3342810 View attachment 3342811
> Do you know the mathematics of Saturn's rings? phi View attachment 3342819 A.K.A. Fibonacci Spiral
> 
> Saturn puts out more energy then it takes in.


But I'm not sure your point? How does that apply to what were talking about. Im not saying it doesnt, just what subject are you refering it to?


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## Mad Lab (Jan 31, 2015)

Are you saying because Saturn puts out more energy then it takes in that there is no god?


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## Fease (Jan 31, 2015)

The type of spiritual ideas I follow are mostly from a book or two I read. Very similar to metaphysical new spiritual movements happening. The book I read told me I didn't have to believe, not to pay attention to the specific words contained within it even. Nothing rings more true than that and many of the opinions contained within that book. All from a book the mentions Jesus, or J, like 400 times. Many more ideas have come to me since then but all align with my original belief in infinity and common energy. I was not a christian before that. I was atheist or perhaps agnostic. I don't necessarily believe in Jesus but if he was around I'm guessing he was an alright dude. Most of what I like in regards to religion and spirituality are related to buddhism, paganism and gnostic ideas. These ideas have helped me cure some of my ailments in life using simply the power of my mind to create well being. They've also sent me on a couple "trips' down the yellow brick road.


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## Sure Shot (Jan 31, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> But I'm not sure your point? How does that apply to what were talking about. Im not saying it doesnt, just what subject are you refering it to?


Carbon based life forms. What are you trying to conveying in the word God? *Cronos,* is Saturn. Cronos, is a God. Saturn, therefore, is a God. You call time chronology. That's Chronos'-Log. Log is the origin of law - lag. To be in rhythm, is be synchronous. Sin-Chronos. Sin(e) is a mathematical term for a wave, which is a 2d representation of a spiral(spirit). Sin is the wave you rode in on, but in this metaphor you would be not a leaf, but an apple of the tree of life. Adam and Eve were not humans. Humans were in the same story just earlier, they were not Adam(A-dom=Indivisible/Solo/Sun [Only light in the day]), or, the Eve(ning) moon. They were literary. The Sun and Moon are just as close as they appear to be. Here's a fun trick, try and pass yellow light through blue light. You'll see there is no way for it to be on the other side! There is an Ionosphere. Ionized gas is what we call fluorescent light.


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## Mad Lab (Jan 31, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> Carbon based life forms. What are you trying to conveying in the word God? *Cronos,* is Saturn. Cronos, is a God. Saturn, therefore, is a God. You call time chronology. That's Chronos'-Log. Log is the origin of law - lag. To be in rhythm, is be synchronous. Sin-Chronos. Sin(e) is a mathematical term for a wave, which is a 2d representation of a spiral(spirit). Sin is the wave you rode in on, but in this metaphor you would be not a leaf, but an apple of the tree of life. Adam and Eve were not humans. Humans were in the same story just earlier, they were not Adam(A-dom=Indivisible/Solo/Sun [Only light in the day]), or, the Eve(ning) moon. They were literary. The Sun and Moon are just as close as they appear to be. Here's a fun trick, try and pass yellow light through blue light. You'll see there is no way for it to be on the other side! There is an Ionosphere. Ionized gas is what we call fluorescent light.


I cant follow everything your saying, I'm just not that smart.

But, if your implying that creation was a metaphor and genesis was using such as a way to explain a complex mathmatical equation to a simple and unevolved human race, I dont disagree.


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## Sure Shot (Jan 31, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> I cant follow everything your saying, I'm just not that smart.
> 
> But, if your implying that creation was a metaphor and genesis was using such as a way to explain a complex mathmatical equation to a simple and unevolved human race, I dont disagree.


Awesome! Please, just 2 minutes of your time.


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## tyler.durden (Jan 31, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I am sure there is some credible information in the Bible. But, to generalize, the Bible is not a credible piece of literature: but I am sure there are some facts contained in the Bible. Even a good science fiction book will contain some facts, but the premise of the sci-fi book is fiction. I believe the same is true with the Bible, there are SOME facts in the Bible (in order to SEEM credible), but the main premise of the Bible is fiction. Do you understand this? and does this make sense?


Of course. When I talk of credibility, I am asking if you think the bible is what it is touted to be, which is the word of god, or inspired by god, or somehow divine or holy. This as opposed to ignorant, bronze age, desert dwelling men that knew little about reality, which is what the book seems to be...



> First of all, I am not claiming "divinity", because I am not claiming to be God. I believe we are all gods, and everyone is divine as anyone else.


This is complete bullshit. You say you are king of the world, kings are born because they are of divine lineage. You also claim to be anointed, the christ, the prophet, etc. ad nauseum. From Webster - Divine - : relating to or coming from God or a god. You are anointed? By whom if not god? You are the christ, what would that mean if it is not divine? You claim that you are these things and we are not. When left to more intense ranting, you claim these traits as how you are different from the rest of us, and when cornered, you back off and state we are all gods. You are a coward with a double standard and employ double-speak whenever it suits your delusion du jour...



> I have not fulfilled many Bible prophecies, but I have fulfilled many Bible STORIES from the New Testament, in My subjective opinion.


Okay. But if the bible is not credible, who cares that you fulfilled some stories from a work of fiction? If my life paralleled Harry Potter, it wouldn't mean anything. Similarly, if one's life parallels a fictional bible, it wouldn't mean anything...



> But the fact is that the Bible is the most published book EVER, probably the most read book EVER, and billions of people believe the Bible is "the Word of God": regardless whether I believe the Bible has a lot of fallacious myths in it, or not.


What does this have to do with anything? Either the bible is fallacious or it isn't, it doesn't matter what people believe...



> And all of the parallels I have with the New Testament are (mostly) falsifiable- they can be proven by My records. And the Bible is considered, by the billions of Christians, to be "the Word of God," and I can literally, empirically prove that I have these said parallels with these said Bible stories. Its My opinion that I have fulfilled many Bible stories in My Life. I cannot prove every parallel I have with these Bible stories, but I have vivid, unequivocal memories of these events, because they are unprovable facts. For example, one of the parallels I have with the Bible has to do with riding a horse: I cannot empirically prove that those events happened that day in the year 2008 (I believe), but I know that it happened as a fact. Some things, you just need a little faith that I am telling the Truth.


So what about any of this? Some stuff happened in the bible, you did similar stuff. Millions of people can claim the same thing. We've looked over your posts long ago and showed you that these similarities don't have any intrinsic significance. You display symptoms of apophenia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

*Apophenia* /æpɵˈfiːniə/ is the experience of seeing patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.

The term is attributed to Klaus Conrad[1] by Peter Brugger,[2] who defined it as the "unmotivated seeing of connections" accompanied by a "specific experience of an abnormal meaningfulness", but it has come to represent the human tendency to seek patterns in random information in general, such as with gambling and paranormal phenomena.[3]

This is a common tendency for all of us, but is often much more pronounced in schizophrenics and manic depressives. Considering all the evidence, it seems that your life fell apart, you had a psychotic break and were compelled to create this christ delusion by which you can generate some pseudo self-esteem and comfort through the notion that you are somehow special. The ludicrousness of your ideas are apparent to all but you, after all your effort you don't have one follower or anyone that takes you seriously...



> So, because the Bible is considered as "the Word of God" to the billions of alleged Christians, I would assert that the myraid parallels I have with the New Testament is evidence that I have myraid parallels with the alleged "Word of God." And I personally believe, in My subjective opinion, that I am the fulfillment to the New Testament.


This is where you are confused. You say that the bible is fictitious and you don't believe in it when it suits you, and that it is valid and you do believe in it, also when it suits you. It's one or the other, maybe even you can see this...



> So, regardless what I believe about the credibility of the Bible, literally billions of alleged Christians believe the Bible is the credible "Word of God", and that has to say something about the Bible.


This is a logical fallacy entitled Argumentum ad Populum - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

In argumentation theory, an _*argumentum ad populum*_ (Latin for "*appeal to the people*") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition is true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so." So, your logic is based on a fallacy, therefor we can discard it as faulty and untrue...



> Its not what I believe, its the fact that billions of people are allegedly Christians. I am in the minority with My novel Spirituality, right now.


Above you state it is what you believe, and here you are a few sentences later saying that you don't. Do you see how confused you are? You'll say whatever to make your point and fool yourself. You are either dishonest or insane... or perhaps both...



> The majority of Christians would say I am erroneous, and their Bible is the infallible Word of God, so the majority of Christians don't care what I believe. And belief is such a powerful thing.
> 
> Is this a logical argument? Does this make sense?


No, for all the reasons I've outlined in this post...




> Yes, all prophecies are "mere guesses", unless you KNOW the future: but some prophecies are more plausible compared to others. I don't believe anyone knows the future for certain, because World War 3 could happen any time, and the countries could nuke humanity to extinction. But this does not seem to be as plausible as the human race will probably continue throughout the AGEs, but do we KNOW anything about the future for certain? My guess is no. Sure, I believe all of My prophecies are inevitable with enough time, but its still just My best educated guess, and its contingent upon many factors.


Since you have such little education, your educated guess seems worthless...




> But, for all I know, the New Testament could have been written by aliens, or time travels, that KNEW exactly what was going to unfold in the future: because I cannot explain WHY I inadvertantly fulfilled so many New Testament stories. For example, I remember you, Tyler, saying that if you are in space, traveling towards (or away from) the earth, you will be able to see the future or the past? is this correct? So I really have no notion WHY I inadvertantly fulfilled so many New Testament stories?


Millions have, it's called coincidence...



> Maybe the fact that I have so many parallels with the New Testament is "meaningless coincidence" to you, or any non-believer, but there is a lot of meaning to Me. The facts about Myself might seem unimportant to some people, but they are very important to Me. This is called being subjective. Even though I have many objective facts about Myself that I can empirically prove, its a subjective notion if people want to see the unequivocal parallels between Me and the Christ.


Yours is a simple and common case of apophenia, apparent to almost everyone but you...



> Did I fulfill all of your (expectations and) dreams?


A display of mental illness coupled with horribly erroneous logic and double-think, all predicated on a logical fallacy? Yes, you fulfilled my expectations...


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## Fease (Feb 1, 2015)

^^^^^^^^^ up there ^^^^^
Saturn absorbed energy billions of years ago during its formation and now it is decaying and releasing energy, as is the rest of solar system in time. Nice metaphorical connecting the dots though, interesting. I'm pretty sure Saturn, the planet, isn't a god because of this?.. edit: cool video.

I question whether Christ even went around calling himself gods son or whether people decided to call him that for whatever reasons. A person wrote the bible, people rather...people. Do you know some people? I do, they write all kinds of words in sentences.

We are all special in some respect or another. Everyone is part of the puzzle. Should you subject yourself to everyone, probably not. Just saying people are indeed important pieces of the whole.

/random blurbs
/end


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## tyler.durden (Feb 1, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> I tried it.
> 
> I had money. women. friends. family. and i did my best everyday to be a good person, kind and generous, and as content as you could be without a god.
> 
> ...


Let me start out by saying that I enjoy your posts and your attitude, it's nice to see you in this sub-forum. I am also very lucky in these respects. I am quite happy, happier than I've ever been, but I am not content. I experience periods of contentment after significant accomplishments, but they always fade. I think this is proper, for if we were content I don't think we'd have the motivation to progress. For the sake of discussion, I am an agnostic atheist which is to say that I do not believe in a deity, but I cannot know if one exists or not...




> We are programed to believe and serve a higher power, because if we didn't, we'd have to serve ourselves or a human king (or material things, which is preferred by most in America). Both are not worth serving. A King cannot be without sin and respectable as such, and if you think you can be your own god well lets look at you: Are you a god worth serving? Ha, thats a joke. I surely am far from r someone I would ever want to worship.


Richard Dawkins has a nice hypothesis regarding this subject. In Darwinian terms, the need to serve and/or worship may come from the childhood need of unquestioningly obeying one's parents. The vast majority of us have this tendency for obedience at infancy, and we easily heed our parents warnings of, 'don't drink that bleach!' and 'don't jump off the roof!' Those of us born without this tendency tend not to live very long and rarely get the chance to pass on the lack of this genetic trait. As we grow into adulthood this urge seems to stay with the majority of us, and we often fill the void of the comfort that comes from our parental figures' authority by substituting governments and/or gods...



> "Dont worship anything." You probably would say. Well, it's not that easy. (You likely worship experiences or materials if you live by this). Evolutionary process programed us that way (I believe god set evolution in place with physical laws. Poof! I made a human being isnt his style. He would have used a process.) We need to be humbled and serve something better than us.


Right. I touched on this tendency above. Not all of us carry it on through adulthood...




> If not, we have no reason to be a good person because there's no EFFECT for the CAUSE of misdeeds on this earth. It comes down to survival, and everyone becomes expendable when that's the case. We need a reason to love one and other because love becomes illogical in an atheist worldview as much as they try to argue against that.


We humans seem to have evolved a tendency for morality, as many higher mammals do. Even Piranha don't eat their own, even in a feeding frenzy. There are plenty of evolutionary reasons to act in a moral manner, and if those are not enough, we have a secular system of law to help keep us in order. I know many atheist and human secularist families that are at least as ethical and moral as their religious counterparts, how can you support your assertion that love becomes illogical in an atheist worldview?



> If I forced you to worship one man in history... I wonder who you'd pick, after doing all your research.
> 
> The day I figured it all out. Jesus .
> 
> That's the day my life truly became fulfilled.


I am glad that you found fulfillment, jesus seems to be a popular way to do that...

Here is a great, short presentation on morality without the supernatural - 






Here is a good one regarding worship starting at 6:10 - 






Here's a great rationale in a nutshell for atheism -


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## tyler.durden (Feb 1, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> There are more famous Atheist scientists, lawyers and philosophers that became Theists after trying to disprove the Bible and Christianity then there are famous Theists that became Atheists.


That's interesting, could you link to that for us? I found this long list on wiki that is the converse of your point -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_nontheism


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## Sure Shot (Feb 1, 2015)

Here is Mary's(Virgo) little lamb. Every where that Mary goes that lamb is sure to follow.
That's Hickory Dickory Dock, the mouse that ran up the clock.
The monkey on your back.
All dogs go to heaven.
The water bearer(Aquarius).
Welcome, to the rabbit hole!!
Turtle Power!!


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## Mad Lab (Feb 1, 2015)

What's very unique about that "good guy Jesus" is that the words that the Apostles recorded were consistent. Most human being's are not consistent when attempting to create a theology. This is why it's easy to rule out most of the religions out there. Consistency.

Oddly enough, when dissected by any scholar, the ENTIRE Bible is consistent, which is almost one of a kind. Especially, when thinking that not one man wrote it, but many, over many centuries.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 1, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> Let me start out by saying that I enjoy your posts and your attitude, it's nice to see you in this sub-forum. I am also very lucky in these respects. I am quite happy, happier than I've ever been, but I am not content. I experience periods of contentment after significant accomplishments, but they always fade. I think this is proper, for if we were content I don't think we'd have the motivation to progress. For the sake of discussion, I am an agnostic atheist which is to say that I do not believe in a deity, but I cannot know if one exists or not...


Thank you and I enjoy your posts as well.

Speaking about happiness and contentment, I think both are unachievable for long periods of time and as you say, its very neccessary they are not.

I respect an agnostic atheist point of view. I was once one for many years and it shows wisdom and intelligence that you choose to acknowledge one can't have proof for one or the other, although you do not believe in a deity.

For many years I was very content and had periods of happiness, although there was the void we all experience as agnostic atheists. The difference between someone who believes something(deist) and someone who is not sure(agnostic atheist).This is the most valuable thing when it comes to faith, something no atheist may experience. The feeling of knowing the truth of life, which makes someone feel complete instead of just content.



tyler.durden said:


> Richard Dawkins has a nice hypothesis regarding this subject. In Darwinian terms, the need to serve and/or worship may come from the childhood need of unquestioningly obeying one's parents. The vast majority of us have this tendency for obedience at infancy, and we easily heed our parents warnings of, 'don't drink that bleach!' and 'don't jump off the roof!' Those of us born without this tendency tend not to live very long and rarely get the chance to pass on the lack of this genetic trait. As we grow into adulthood this urge seems to stay with the majority of us, and we often fill the void of the comfort that comes from our parental figures' authority by substituting governments and/or gods...


A enjoy many atheist authors but I dislike the atheists who are trying to disprove god rather than provide science to us about creation theory etc. Richard Dawkins is out to get religion and I think that affects his writing. I prefer others that focus on areas we can see more facts in. 

Regarding Dawkins answer to an objective moral law giver, I can believe that you may explain our morality by an evolutionary process as described. But I believe God has a scientific way of doing everything, including creating morality. I believe that he implemented evolution from the spark of the universes existence including physical and metaphysical laws. I believe God works in cause and effect laws we experience everyday, not so much sporadically jumping in and doing a few miracles here and there. But this is my opinion. 



tyler.durden said:


> But explaining our morality
> 
> 
> Right. I touched on this tendency above. Not all of us carry it on through adulthood...


Well we could argue objective vs subjective morality but Im sure we've both heard both sides of the argument on the subject so no need.



tyler.durden said:


> We humans seem to have evolved a tendency for morality, as many higher mammals do. Even Piranha don't eat their own, even in a feeding frenzy. There are plenty of evolutionary reasons to act in a moral manner, and if those are not enough, we have a secular system of law to help keep us in order. I know many atheist and human secularist families that are at least as ethical and moral as their religious counterparts, how can you support your assertion that love becomes illogical in an atheist worldview?


I can agree with evolution.

I shouldn't have said love is illogical in an atheist worldview. What i ment to say that the love for every human on this earth, the way Jesus teachs, is important. But illogical for the atheist who believes that the meaning of life is survival. No logic in treating every single person(or trying), even evil people or people you dont like, with love. It wouldn't be in my opinion smart for survival, thats why we dont live that way.

As an atheist, If a man with a gun walked up to my wife, a stranger and myself and told me this ,"if you dont shoot this stranger, i will shoot your wife." I would not struggle with shooting the stranger to save the person i know and love. I do not agree with this choice.

As a Christian, I would hope I would make the right decision, which would be not shoot the man, and watch my wife be killed. It's not easy, but to kill an innocent person to save an innocent life is something that should not be done. But only faith in God would justify such a noble action. Of course this situation is extreme, my point is when times truly get tough(your starving and you need to kill someone for their food or youll die), do you resort to survival or holiness?




tyler.durden said:


> I am glad that you found fulfillment, jesus seems to be a popular way to do that...
> 
> Here is a great, short presentation on morality without the supernatural -


Thank you. Yeah hes a "good guy".

Regarding the videos on morality without the supernatural, thank you, I have read much on that subject. And while I dont believe or disbelieve in evolutionary theories explaining morality, I can accept ether. I'm not sure if that's included in progressive theism but something like that.

I'm not stuck on morality with atheists as much as I am with there disbelief in an agent creating our universe or multi-universe. Even if proof exists of matter creating itself from nothing, it makes no sense that the beginning of all of these processes had no agent outside the system that set things in motion. Hard to believe the first something came from truly nothing in the same system or outside the system.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 1, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> That's interesting, could you link to that for us? I found this long list on wiki that is the converse of your point -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_nontheism


I retract my statement. I have never seen a list of every atheist turned theist or vice versa. My point to the gentlemen was that there are DNA scientists that have converted on and from both sides, so saying that a DNA scientist turned from a theist to an atheist means nothing.

But wikipedia has extremely biased writers, especially regarding religion. It is hardly a good source for a list of subjects on topic.


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## Grojak (Feb 1, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> I live in lake Tahoe. I possibly do more hiking than you and I dont goto church.
> 
> What do you choose to worship Grojak? You seem to be real smart right, so don't say "i dont worship anything"
> 
> Tell us what you worship. If it's good, maybe we will all convert. ha.


To quote the late George Carlin: "Joe Pesci, cause he looks like someone that will get shit done" you pray to Joe and he shows up with a baseball bat to take are of shit.

Worship is such a strong word, I don't worship any human being or object, I could almost say pot that is more a relationship of respect and love but not worship… I've often said my church is nature more specific wherever I'm hiking is my church, it's the reason I moved to the state I live. No I don't "worship" anything man, not a complicated concept or impossible. 

I guess I didn't answer you question but I don't have an answer for you that supports your idea of worship.


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## tyler.durden (Feb 1, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Thank you and I enjoy your posts as well.
> 
> Speaking about happiness and contentment, I think both are unachievable for long periods of time and as you say, its very neccessary they are not.
> 
> ...


That's a good way putting it, complete instead of content. I remember that feeling as I was raised as a christian. The reason I no longer yearn for it is that I believe the feeling was accomplished under false pretenses, akin to shooting heroin. It may produce a feeling of completeness but the feeling is an illusion...



> A enjoy many atheist authors but I dislike the atheists who are trying to disprove god rather than provide science to us about creation theory etc. Richard Dawkins is out to get religion and I think that affects his writing. I prefer others that focus on areas we can see more facts in.


Well, as you said any scientist worth his salt knows there is no way to disprove god in the same way there is no way to disprove smurfs, elves, dragons, or the popular Russell's Teapot and Flying Speghetti Monster. Dawkins makes a case for religion being a net negative force in the world, it is very reasoned and is difficult to argue against. I'm sure you've seen him in action, so I don't need to post anything of his...



> Regarding Dawkins answer to an objective moral law giver, I can believe that you may explain our morality by an evolutionary process as described. But I believe God has a scientific way of doing everything, including creating morality. I believe that he implemented evolution from the spark of the universes existence including physical and metaphysical laws. I believe God works in cause and effect laws we experience everyday, not so much sporadically jumping in and doing a few miracles here and there. But this is my opinion.


An interesting view, almost more deist than theist...




> Well we could argue objective vs subjective morality but Im sure we've both heard both sides of the argument on the subject so no need.


Here's a VERY interesting talk by Sam Harris on a science-based view of morality I recently viewed. Most scientists steer clear of the subject of morality, but he takes it head on. I think you'd find it interesting, and you may agree with most of it. Even just the first 15 or 20 mins shows the meat of his outlook -










> I can agree with evolution.
> 
> I shouldn't have said love is illogical in an atheist worldview. What i ment to say that the love for every human on this earth, the way Jesus teachs, is important. But illogical for the atheist who believes that the meaning of life is survival. No logic in treating every single person(or trying), even evil people or people you dont like, with love. It wouldn't be in my opinion smart for survival, thats why we dont live that way.


This makes more sense. An athiest worldview is a little misleading as atheism only tells us one thing about a person, that they lack belief in a deity. Many atheists believe whacky shit: homeopathy, alien abduction, conspiracy theory and all brand of pseudo-science. Some atheists may have the view that the meaning of life is survival, but ime atheists feel free to ascribe to life their own meaning. I personally like Ayn Rand's take on the meaning of human life - to bring forth the positive ideas in one's mind into concrete objective reality. IOW, all of the accomplishments of industry and art started off as a mere idea in someone's mind, and the arduous process of bringing that idea into the physical world is our life's purpose. Being free of creator's dictates allows non-believers to choose their own meaning for their lives, which can be very liberating...




> As an atheist, If a man with a gun walked up to my wife, a stranger and myself and told me this ,"if you dont shoot this stranger, i will shoot your wife." I would not struggle with shooting the stranger to save the person i know and love. I do not agree with this choice.
> 
> As a Christian, I would hope I would make the right decision, which would be not shoot the man, and watch my wife be killed. It's not easy, but to kill an innocent person to save an innocent life is something that should not be done. But only faith in God would justify such a noble action. Of course this situation is extreme, my point is when times truly get tough(your starving and you need to kill someone for their food or youll die), do you resort to survival or holiness?


Again, there is no one atheist worldview and many different atheists would have varying views on this dilemma. I think yours is a False Dichotomy, if you are familiar with logical fallacies -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

A *false dilemma* (also called *black-and-white thinking*, *bifurcation*, *denying a conjunct*, the *either–or fallacy*, *false dichotomy*, *fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses*, the *fallacy of false choice*, the *fallacy of the false alternative*, or the *fallacy of the excluded middle*) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option.

I would personally attempt to shoot the perpetrator of this heinous act. He may shoot me or my wife in the process, but to me this is a better alternative to the choice he offered. I'd likely have support and assistance of the stranger and/or my wife, and with my choice If any innocents die it would not be on me...




> I'm not stuck on morality with atheists as much as I am with there disbelief in an agent creating our universe or multi-universe. Even if proof exists of matter creating itself from nothing, it makes no sense that the beginning of all of these processes had no agent outside the system that set things in motion. Hard to believe the first something came from truly nothing in the same system or outside the system.


Many theists seems stuck on the erroneous premise that our universe came from nothing. Big Bang Theory says that the singularity from which our universe sprang was a highly ordered and infinitely hot, dense point of energy. The problem with positing a god set things in motion is that we now have the problem of explaining the existence of such a complex creature. As difficult as it is to explain the origins of our universe, it is much more difficult to explain the genesis of a complex creator. If the answer is that this creator has always existed, why not simply skip a step and state that the cycle of the universe has always existed, eliminating the explanatory need of a creator?


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## Mad Lab (Feb 1, 2015)

Grojak said:


> To quote the late George Carlin: "Joe Pesci, cause he looks like someone that will get shit done" you pray to Joe and he shows up with a baseball bat to take are of shit.
> 
> Worship is such a strong word, I don't worship any human being or object, I could almost say pot that is more a relationship of respect and love but not worship… I've often said my church is nature more specific wherever I'm hiking is my church, it's the reason I moved to the state I live. No I don't "worship" anything man, not a complicated concept or impossible.
> 
> I guess I didn't answer you question but I don't have an answer for you that supports your idea of worship.


We all worship something. You likely worship experiences, material things and money or something else like cannabis or partying. We all do, we are human. This subject is not even debatable. 

What do you kiss at the end of night before bed? What would destroy you if I took it away?


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## tyler.durden (Feb 1, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> We all worship something. You likely worship experiences, material things and money or something else like cannabis or partying. We all do, we are human. This subject is not even debatable.
> 
> What do you kiss at the end of night before bed? What would destroy you if I took it away?


Well, let's look at the definition - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship

1wor·ship
_noun_ \ˈwər-shəp _also_ ˈwȯr-\
: the act of showing respect and love for a god especially by praying with other people who believe in the same god : the act of worshipping God or a god

: excessive admiration for someone

*Full Definition of WORSHIP*
1
_chiefly British_ *:* a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2
*:* reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; _also_ *:* an act of expressing such reverence
3
*:* a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4
*:* extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <_worship_ of the dollar>

I don't kiss anyone or anything before I go to bed. I love my son more than anything, and I sometimes feel if he were taken away from me I would be destroyed. But I certainly don't worship my son. I don't have any experiences that match these definitions, and I don't desire to. I think most people have the urge to do these things (as most people are drawn to believe in a deity), but certainly not all. One who is overwhelmed by the need may not understand that some others are not. At the very least, it seems debatable...


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## Skylor (Feb 1, 2015)

Me sleep alone most of the time.

Worshiping to me is being obsesses with whatever U are worship. True we all need somethings, I guess I worship food and water for sure. Sex, drugs, music, TV are all nice and worship by many, let not forget cell phones, lol....I think every 20 year old worships their phone today


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## Mad Lab (Feb 1, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> Well, let's look at the definition - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship
> 
> 1wor·ship
> _noun_ \ˈwər-shəp _also_ ˈwȯr-\
> ...


Thanks for the definition. But I think you know what I mean. I wish I had time for extremely cavalier debates such as this one. Next.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 1, 2015)

Also in regards to atheism and different worldviews. Of course, nothing is black and white. Noone has the same exact belief as another, common sense. 

What I am referring to is the foundation of atheism. An atheist chooses no foundation besides science, which isn't really a spiritual guide. So we can only judge atheism based on science, of which the foundation says the meaning of life is simply survival. 

Am i saying an atheist cant be a good person? Of course I'm not. Am I saying an atheist cant love or be generous? Of course not. Am I saying an atheist cant justify morality? No, I'm not.

All I care about is a philosophy about life that is good for mankind. Because there is only one foundation with atheism, which is survival, what does this produce? People choosing whatever they want to believe is right and wrong. Problem is with atheism, there's really no such thing as right and wrong, this is subjective. 

What happens when the whole world needs to decide on what is right and wrong based on whatever their parents may have thought them to (possibly)be the right thing to do? A few may be great people, but the majority, do you really think they will make good decisions if they believe there is no punishment eternally?

I judge a philosophy based on one thing, "is it the best thing for mankind"

Do you honestly think atheism is the answer to that? If you say yes, that will be the first unintelligent thing you have said in this thread.


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## tyler.durden (Feb 1, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Thanks for the definition. But I think you know what I mean. I wish I had time for extremely cavalier debates such as this one. Next.


I did not know what you meant. Grojak stated that he understands the qualities of respect, love, and the appreciation of beauty, but that he does not experience worship. You responded stating that all humans worship and that your statement was not debatable. Since I have a similar experience to Grojak's, I thought I would share it and demonstrate not all humans have the need or desire to worship. I am showing concern for an important concept, which is the opposite of cavalier...


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## tyler.durden (Feb 1, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> ...What I am referring to is the foundation of atheism. An atheist chooses no foundation besides science, which isn't really a spiritual guide. So we can only judge atheism based on science, of which the foundation says the meaning of life is simply survival.


This is not true. Many atheists care nothing for science, and are very ignorant of the process. AFAIK, actual science has never ventured an assertion as to what the meaning of life is, it seems outside its realm. Would you link to that for us? It does observe that the main goal of life seems to be centered around passing on its genes, but I don't know of any science that speaks to the meaning of human life...



> Am i saying an atheist cant be a good person? Of course I'm not. Am I saying an atheist cant love or be generous? Of course not. Am I saying an atheist cant justify morality? No, I'm not.
> 
> All I care about is a philosophy about life that is good for mankind. Because there is only one foundation with atheism, which is survival, what does this produce? People choosing whatever they want to believe is right and wrong. Problem is with atheism, there's really no such thing as right and wrong, this is subjective.


You keep stating that the only foundation for atheism is survival. This may have been true for you when you were an atheist, but this is not a foundation of atheism. Many atheists don't believe because there they haven't come across a good argument in support of this belief, and because no empirical evidence has yet been discovered. If you can support your statement that survival is a foundation of atheism, or that atheism even has a foundation, I would love to take a look. Human morality shares many attributes, but has always shown many individual differences among cultures. The closest I've seen science come to addressing morality is contained in Sam Harris' talk that I posted earlier. It posits that the worst scenario is the the greatest possible suffering for all, hence the best scenario being the least amount of suffering for all. How we get there is a matter of debate, but all moral actions fall somewhere within this continuum...



> What happens when the whole world needs to decide on what is right and wrong based on whatever their parents may have thought them to (possibly)be the right thing to do? A few may be great people, but the majority, do you really think they will make good decisions if they believe there is no punishment eternally?


Sure. I think we always have overall, which is mainly why there are 7 billion of us on this planet (and that figure is rapidly rising). Study after study shows that the actions of non-believers are at least as moral, and oftentimes more moral than their believing counterparts. Our morality doesn't seem very different than other higher mammals, and they of course, aren't considering an afterlife. Even the punishment of death and prison doesn't seem to prohibit believers from immoral actions, as per capita, there are far more believers behind bars than atheists. If you google 'studies that support the morality of atheists', you will see a lot of these studies, they are very interesting...



> I judge a philosophy based on one thing, "is it the best thing for mankind"


That's good, it seems that idea is emerging from science, as well...



> Do you honestly think atheism is the answer to that? If you say yes, that will be the first unintelligent thing you have said in this thread.


I don't think something as simple as the lack of belief in deities can do much by itself. I also think it's fairly evident that religion is not the answer either. I think education, science, logic and rationality are things likely to bring us closer to what is best for mankind. It also seems that there is a correlation that the more people are exposed to these things, the more likely they are to be atheist...


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## Skylor (Feb 1, 2015)

I'm very open, there well might be some kind of god but then again maybe not. I tend to lean to the no god but I would not bet on it, lol.

I also would not be shock if there are a bunch of other Earths out there with all types of strange animals and who knows what, if so then who's their god ? Thats why I tent to lean to no god. How could something have power over all we can't even see ? 

Lightning spark life on Earth it seems like, if it happen here it could happen anywhere. How lightning happens, who knows, maybe thats part of God ? We can explain why lightning happens, so we brush it off, that can't be god


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## Skylor (Feb 2, 2015)

Quote " I think education, science, logic and rationality are things likely to bring us closer to what is best for mankind"

Yes I agree but not all the way. Religion is good cause it honors certain values that never change or slowly changes. When certain things have been taboo for ages and then we change things in a few decades, well that seems too risky. Change should sometimes happen but slowly, the slower the better most often, IMO. We should not be so fast to change what our forefathers believed in for thousands of years. There might be more to something that only time will show.

For the most part I agree with that Pope guy. Yeah I use birth control and abortion is alright too, lol but I see where the Pope is coming from, that sometimes man should not try to play god. If two people have sex, maybe its cause god wants them to have a child for his plans later on. Women don't get pregnant every time they have sex , birth control or not, so once U start using birth control, U are taking things in to your own hands and playing god so to say.

I feel very strongly thats its wrong to kill, that its only OK to take a life in order to save lives. These anti abortion but pro death penalty people make me sick. They are so ready to force a child on to a person but then all gone ho to kill that baby once it grows up, un real 

I like to ask the Pope his views on weed-well all drugs in fact. I wonder if he agrees that god made drugs to help us at times ? It be totally awesome if the Pope went medical with pot, well maybe not but a Pope smoking a joint, wow...gee they sip wine, so what the F


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## Sure Shot (Feb 2, 2015)

Mary had a little lamb.....
Swing Low, Sweet Chariot.......
Hi, Ho, the Dairy-O, the Rat takes the cheese......
She'll be riding 6 White(Gold) horses when she comes........
Sing along! What other ones do you know?
When your done, do a cartwheel!


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## Sure Shot (Feb 3, 2015)

Same Old Story. Same Old Song And Dance, My Friend.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 3, 2015)

I think everything a few gentlemen here have said summed up where atheists, agnostic, theists and deists get to eventually in the creation and morality conversations. 

But I think we can all agree that logic or rational will not prove any one of our stances. Saying that, and being that we are all morally conscience individuals, I think the only real conversations to have about religion is the philosophies behind them and why we may or may not agree with them. 

For instance, what Skylor mentions above is very intelligent:

_"Yes I agree but not all the way. Religion is good cause it honors certain values that never change or slowly changes. When certain things have been taboo for ages and then we change things in a few decades, well that seems too risky. Change should sometimes happen but slowly, the slower the better most often, IMO. We should not be so fast to change what our forefathers believed in for thousands of years. There might be more to something that only time will show."_

I would love to debate some of the philosophy behind Jesus, especially with tyler.

If I told you a man perfectly identified the human condition and the perfect remedy for it, you would say: that's not a man, there must be a few things i disagree with, noone knows how to live perfectly.

What if a man told you the best advice to live a life that involved having to consider the physical and mental well-being of everyone that you shared this world with, whether it's family, friends, enemies, strangers or most importantly, your own self. 

I'd say that's what everyone wants to know(or should want to know) but no man could possibly give such perfect advice. And if he did, he would have no authority, he's just a man, not a deity. 

But If you somehow agreed with every point this 'man' had to make about your own personal values and morals(or new morals you never saw were of value until explained) and he also had authority, he was God in human form, and he did the best job any man has done in history in convincing of such. 

This god, unlike 99% of man-made deities, came to earth in form of a man, to suffer as one, as we all suffer. But the one thing that set this God above others is that he did one thing that he asks of all men: he gave up being God. In fact, no other Gods seem godly if compared, because these other gods resemble humans in their actions. It is not a consistent parental love of the purist form.



But, first you'd have to agree this philosophy is perfect. We'd have to go through point by point, debating whether their is enough proof to say that the advice produces more positive than negative effects.

Example: Jesus gives advice for men and women to be married before living under the same roof. Most would say this is old advice, and God's advice should be updated. All we can really do in this case may be looking at statistics on cohabitation before marriage divorce rates. 

_"According to statistics gathered by US Attorney Legal Services, living together before getting married doesn't accomplish the goal that couples think that it will. A couple who does not live together prior to getting married has a 20 percent chance of being divorced within five years. If the couple has lived together beforehand, that number jumps to 49 percent._"

So i challenge anyone to a debate on the philosophy Jesus taught and flaws that may be associated. Show me it's not perfect. 

Please bring the verses and references you'd like to discuss. 



BTW, to everyone conversing, I enjoy your opinions and thoughts regardless of if agreement or not. Just wanna say thanks for talking about something alot of people dont take the time to research or converse about: the meaning of life.

BTW


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## Mad Lab (Feb 3, 2015)

Another example:

Jesus says to treat my body well, if not it is a sin.
*not a really bad sin, but more advice to someone so they wont have to deal with the repercussions of such actions.

Why should i? It's not hurting anyone if I eat Popeyes chicken everyday.

Answer: Science tells us what eating that will do everyday, and that would increase the risk of cancer. And although it is your body and you may not be hurting anyone physically, if you are in a hospital dying from cancer and your family has to sit there and watch you, this is hurting the people you care about not physically but mentally.

Here's the cool thing. All this advice was given before we had science to tell us what was good and what is bad.

We also never had psychology or the testing associated.

It's funny so many psychologists, after so much data as piled up, have figured out good advice to give humans that is the same advice Jesus gave without testing or science, in the frickin bronze age. Getting some things right? Maybe, but most if not all? very odd if he didnt exist or a group of guys got together and figured this stuff out or guessed.

It's like marriage counseling (good ones) give Jesus' advice but they take away Jesus LOL. We do this with so many things.


BTW- I'm addicted to Popeyes... lol I'm working on it.


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## Nevaeh420 (Feb 4, 2015)

I am claiming to be the Christ.

Can anyone debunk My facts about Myself? If you can't debunk My facts about Myself, why don't you believe (in) Me?

~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Feb 4, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I am claiming to be the Christ.
> 
> Can anyone debunk My facts about Myself? If you can't debunk My facts about Myself, why don't you believe (in) Me?
> 
> ~PEACE~


We can and have debunked your 'facts'. The problem is that you don't listen and learn. You read the corrections, ignore them, and continue to ask for them as if they were never given. Fucking pointless...


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## Mad Lab (Feb 4, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I am claiming to be the Christ.
> 
> Can anyone debunk My facts about Myself? If you can't debunk My facts about Myself, why don't you believe (in) Me?
> 
> ~PEACE~


Bottom line, you weren't really ready to ask the first question of this thread, because you weren't ready to hear an answer.

But, I guess you gotta start somewhere.. so I hope this is your start.


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## Sure Shot (Feb 5, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> I am claiming to be the Christ.
> 
> Can anyone debunk My facts about Myself? If you can't debunk My facts about Myself, why don't you believe (in) Me?
> 
> ~PEACE~


Claims require evidence. Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.


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## Nevaeh420 (Feb 5, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> Claims require evidence. Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.


Please click on the link below to see most of My evidence.

http://www.theforumsite.com/forum/topic/There-is-a-Man-claiming-to-be-Christ-with-evidence-/482442

Please read through the entire thread above to see most of My evidence.

That link is to My free online autobiography, so read it like a book.

Thanks 

~PEACE~


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## Nevaeh420 (Feb 5, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> We can and have debunked your 'facts'. The problem is that you don't listen and learn. You read the corrections, ignore them, and continue to ask for them as if they were never given. Fucking pointless...


Which of My FACTS about Myself have you debunked?

You mention that you have debunked Me quite often, but you don't state what you have debunked, so what have you debunked about Me?

As far as I can remember, Kpmarine, pointed out that I didn't fulfill many Bible PROPHECIES, but rather I fulfilled many Bible STORIES. And you, tyler, said I was intellectually dishonest for claiming to see an alien, when I don't know what an alien should look like, so now I say I saw an "alien-like being". Also, I have a theory that the earth is growing, because the earth is absorbing solar radiation, and mass is equal to energy divided by the speed of light squared: and I remember people tried to tell Me My theory was erroneous. Other than these few things, I don't believe anyone can debunk My FACTS about Myself.

What have you debunked about Me, besides these few things?

~PEACE~


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## Alpha & Omega (Feb 5, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> Claims require evidence. Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.


*Yes, I agree, just having belief just isn't enough these days eh? we are meant to be people of science now, not myth.
Proof is the only thing that cures the curiosity but then again, it also killed the cat. as they say.
just out of curiosity tho,,,,if there was 'one or many' amongst us, then why should 'they',,being 'omnipotent' provide evidence? 
hence the bible was written in parables. always gives US the choice.
Bad thing? Good Thing? Both I think.
Just my opinion..*


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## tyler.durden (Feb 5, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Which of My FACTS about Myself have you debunked?
> 
> You mention that you have debunked Me quite often, but you don't state what you have debunked, so what have you debunked about Me?
> 
> ...


Okay, George. Since you are so publicly asking AGAIN, I will bite and go through the exercise with you later tonight. I'll show you your first threads in this subforum where Mindphuk schools you on your apophenia, tearing apart all your coincidences regarding your family names, how BB and others showed you the stupidity of cutting canals into the Earth attempting to bring in ocean water, etc.. I've got a busy day, but we will go through this again, okay? Pay attention this time, apply yourself, Jessie...


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## tyler.durden (Feb 6, 2015)

This is the first thread I've seen in this subforum -
https://www.rollitup.org/t/i-found-like-a-dozen-videos-of-christ-himself-he-said-that-he-posted-on-here.600992/

I went through a lot of your older threads, and I am now dumber because of it. I've marked down individual post numbers so we can see where the debunking occurs...

From post #195 - I have a notion on how to optimize a star. Why does a planet need to ORBIT around the sun when it could stay in place and spin in place?
If we had nuclear rockets that were big enough than you could create SEASONS by moving planets closer or farther to a star, while spinning in place.
If we did this than we could fit thousands (if not millions) of planets around ONE STAR; without them bumping into eachother!
This is an incredible idea and I just thought of it YESTERDAY; while reading the part of My journal that says "there should be as many planets in the "goldy locks" zone as possible."
This idea opens up so many NEW DEMINSIONS of reality!
We can surround the sun with, maybe, millions of planets BUT the question is "is there enough astroid rocks in the solar system to make so many planets?"
Maybe thats what I'll do, I'll give planets away to people because God is a BIG God; and the more planets, the better! Right?

Post 198 Mindphuk - The orbiting is what gives the planet centripetal force to keep from falling into the sun. How exactly can you situate a massive object in space, without an orbit and keep it from being pulled into the sun?

Post 199 Mindphuk - Seasons are created by the tilt of the earth's axis, not the distance from the sun.

Post #207 - Mindphuk tearing apart another idiotic prophesy...

Post #215 - same

Post #227 - more correction for erroneous facts...

Post #347 is such great debunking, I'll post it in it's entirety -

Nowhere does it say that Christ reborn will have a mother named Mary. There are so many acronyms, many, many people have initials that mean something forward and backward. There are probably thousands of people, maybe 10s of thousands with the same initials GMO.

Olive trees are mentioned in the bible, wow, no kidding, it must be true then. /sarcasm.

The bible is a pretty big book, it mentions a shitload of things. The chance that someone has a name that means something that is also in the bible is pretty fucking high when you consider that there are almost 7 BILLION people!! Do you realize how many 7 billion is? You probably didn't do well math or statistics in school did you? Not only that but considering that people don't have just random names, people actually choose names that mean things, the likelihood that someone has a name that can refer back to the bible and/or Christ, just shot up dramatically.

We know you're fucking nuts but you seem to have some periods of lucidness so listen close. YOUR NAME IS NOT SPECIAL. It doesn't mean you are Christ reborn. This is not evidence. This is delusional reinforcement of your mental illness. It would be as if I said that anyone with the last name King is has special claim to be a ruler. What about people whose name is Lamb, or Logos, Kyrios, Adam, Light, or any derivation of these names. What about Manson (Son of Man- Look what happened to Charlie. Do you want to be like him?).

So please, just stop. Try to think through a little bit when you are on your meds and recognize that you are just playing a little word game that considering the variations and number of languages there are, you can find millions of people that are 'candidates' for being the Christ reborn, yet no one ever said that he will be recognized by his name or that his name means anything. Yeshua was a common name in his time. It didn't mean anything. If there really was a god and there is a new messiah coming, it will be his (or her) actions and deeds that will define who he is, not some contrived attempt to make his name fit some unremarkable coincidences.

Post #364 - good enough to copy and paste -



* mindphuk Well-Known Member *
Nevaeh420 said: ↑
Now, its Mindphuks turn to find out what the chances are that all these things would happen to Me since he is such a wiz kid and an expert in math.

If you actually took time to think about what I wrote, it doesn't all come down to math and statistics but a basic understanding should have helped you figure it out without me.

As I said, there are almost 7 billion people here. There are 26 letters. Assuming that each have equal probability of appearing in a name (they probably all do not, although X and Z are probably more common in China) we have 26x26x26=17576 combinations of three letters. That means that each three letter combination, assuming completely random distribution, are identical in 398,270 people. So with almost 400,000 people with the initials GMO, it is hardly unique.

First you used all of those 'coincidences' as evidence that you are Christ, now, when I point out problems with this idea, you change and say these things are 'merely icing on the cake.' You are dishonest. There is no evidence. You changed your story when you were caught out. Dishonesty is not something that we would expect in a Christ figure. You are not Christ.

Post #78 - This beautiful post by Heis sums up ALL of your logic fails

I think you have a very lax idea of what counts as evidence. The same standards that are used to discount the evidence of the bible (standards which you support apparently) can be applied to the evidence you have put forth. IOW you seem happy to criticize the mistakes of Christians while overlooking those mistakes in yourself. With that sort of approach you could 'prove' to yourself just about anything you were motivated to.

If your mother was on trial for murder wouldn't you want something more solid than her initials being G.K (guilty killer) or that she likes to drink 'redrum'? What if the prosecutor just had a strong feeling and really believed she was a killer? After all, we can prove that she is alive, trace her birthdate, ect. What if I found a prophecy that a woman with her initials and birthdate would be a monster who kills children? Would you be okay with seeing your mother get the electric chair based on this 'evidence'?

If you choose to be delusional rather than suffer the consequences of the medication that is your business I suppose. But when you disingenuously shout that you have evidence and all you have are half-baked scraps of insanity, you should be prepared to realize that your message is being impressed upon no one.

A thread that logically destroys your idea of an online gov't, skip the beginning crap and read after post #61 - https://www.rollitup.org/t/do-you-think-a-one-world-online-government-is-a-good-idea.665575/page-4

You started this thread AFTER you were corrected by a physics professor -
https://www.rollitup.org/t/georges-theory-on-how-to-move-solar-systems.745340/

Another stupid prophecy debunked, especially on post #18
https://www.rollitup.org/t/king-georges-solution-to-the-tax-problem.753683/

I could go on and on, but I think I've made my case. You come up with a lot of ideas that sound good to you, but you lack the ability to see what's wrong with them, so you ignorantly think they are good ideas. We see this often in small children. When you are corrected by educated others, you often ignore the correction and keep spamming the same erroneous drivel. The bottom line is that since you accomplish so very little irl, you need to base your worth on the ideas you hold. You fool yourself into thinking holding ideas, that you are powerless to bring to fruition (which is a good thing since most of them are retarded), makes you valuable, while in reality it is only action and accomplishment that holds any real value. There are millions of people that have better ideas to improve the world than yourself, and without action or accomplishment, they are no more special than you. I know that this will mean nothing to you, I just wanted members to have a post to reference that will save them time if they ever want to see how and when your facts and logic were debunked, how poorly your mind works, how little you actually know, and your general uselessness...


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## Alpha & Omega (Feb 6, 2015)

*Your karma did indeed run over his dogma. lol. dang, now that's a burn. Chaos rules. it keeps the balance.*


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## Nevaeh420 (Feb 6, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> This is the first thread I've seen in this subforum -
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/i-found-like-a-dozen-videos-of-christ-himself-he-said-that-he-posted-on-here.600992/
> 
> I went through a lot of your older threads, and I am now dumber because of it. I've marked down individual post numbers so we can see where the debunking occurs...
> ...


Excuse Me for sometimes being wrong when thinking outside of the box.

I try and opine My notions to My "peers", in order to see what other people believe or know, so I can adjust My (layman) theories.

~PEACE~


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## Nevaeh420 (Feb 6, 2015)

Alpha & Omega said:


> *Your karma did indeed run over his dogma. lol. dang, now that's a burn. Chaos rules. it keeps the balance.*


That was from like a few years ago, when I was manic from smoking marijuana.

~PEACE~


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## tyler.durden (Feb 6, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Excuse Me for sometimes being wrong when thinking outside of the box.
> 
> I try and opine My notions to My "peers", in order to see what other people believe or know, so I can adjust My (layman) theories.
> 
> ~PEACE~


When you post your own ideas (they are not even CLOSE to being theories, as you've been told many times), they have ALWAYS been wrong. You generally do not adjust you beliefs when corrected, as my last post clearly shows, and as evidenced by the fact that you are STILL touting the same debunked ideas that you were years ago. You asked us to show you when your ideas were debunked, so I gave you what you asked for. My guess is that you will ask again sometime down the road as you don't seem to learn...




Nevaeh420 said:


> That was from like a few years ago, when I was manic from smoking marijuana.
> ~PEACE~


That may be true, but there is no difference in you conduct now so what is your point?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 6, 2015)

Perception Is A Matter Of Perspective. What do you see in the looking glass?


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## Mad Lab (Feb 7, 2015)

Lol, oh man...

classic.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 7, 2015)

Aw, don't use the 'pot made me stupid' excuse. 

It makes the rest of us potheads look bad and we need all the positive PR we can possibly get.

lol.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 7, 2015)

Alpha & Omega said:


> *Yes, I agree, just having belief just isn't enough these days eh? we are meant to be people of science now, not myth.
> Proof is the only thing that cures the curiosity but then again, it also killed the cat. as they say.
> just out of curiosity tho,,,,if there was 'one or many' amongst us, then why should 'they',,being 'omnipotent' provide evidence?
> hence the bible was written in parables. always gives US the choice.
> ...


Very well put. 

You see the Bible for what it is, but I have a feeling you may not be a Christian A&O, or are you?

What are some of your spiritual beliefs A&O?


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## Alpha & Omega (Feb 8, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Very well put.
> 
> You see the Bible for what it is, but I have a feeling you may not be a Christian A&O, or are you?
> 
> What are some of your spiritual beliefs A&O?


*I like to think that I do see it for what it is, its my choice tho isn't it? as it is yours and everyone's. To interpret and understand it as it was meant to be understood. 
That's if its the right version we are reading in the first place tho eh? so I also like history, facts, proof. not a sceptic tho
I like to keep an open mind as its easier to drop something into it..

Religion? I am many religions bro, I like bits from every one. 
I Wasn't Christened you see? Left open to be what i wanted to be, 
Father was a archaeologist specialising in the Roman Era,. so I sort of realised as I wasn't force fed history etc...that J.C. played a big part in the history of rome etc.. both go hand in hand, History & Religion,, so my basic impressions of 'Christianity' is that if someone who had the power to turn the most powerful empire at that time around to believe in one god instead of their usual many, must of been a vey influential and great man.
But as we know the teachings and writings have been warped and re-written to be used as a object of power over man. 
So,
Without opening pandoras box and unleashing a tsunami of religious debate posts, etc..
I find that 'religion' is a more personal thing nowadays and for that reason, I cant label my beliefs with any one religion, or two, not even many.
I just believe in what I feel is right to believe in, reading in between the lines as they say.
And to make my own conclusion's through my own life's experiences whilst also observing others.
Its all about knowledge.
Very Buddhist I know but hey? we all do need some enlightening.
or 'Illuminating' might be the better word. lol.*


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## Mad Lab (Feb 8, 2015)

Well said, again. And yes, we always have a choice.

If I could have summarized my beliefs before doing the born-again thing I think that would have been very close.

What never worked for me was a few things. One being, taking a little from this religion and a little of that, throwing in some buddism and maybe a little Jesus, was that there was no authority in any of it, or most of it. Something called a spiritual buffet or a somewhat universalism approach.

It reminded me of Revelation 13 in the Bible:
_
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy._

The ten crowns was signifying different false religions and the fact he held the crown for each. This was the trick the AntiChrist would use to rise to power, universilism and the promise of peace and unity. For it doesnt matter what god the people worship, as long as it's not Jesus Christ. Because although we have a choice, the truth by definition can only be one thing, can we agree? So a spiritual buffet is great for getting along with most belief structures that are not violant but in doing so you may have 1 truth and 99 lies in your buffet. 

_7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations._


Like Buddhism, I love the philosophy, not as a religion but a lifestyle. Problem is, if we call it a religion I feel we need authority, and Buddha was just a man, no authority there.

Jesus Christ, another great philosopher. Claimed to be God. So we have authority, now we need to dissect the philosophy and see if there's a possibility. And as you say, JC proved to the world moreso than anyone else, for changing the Roman Empire would have been maybe one the most difficult task in history.

Although, saying the Romans took in Christianity is true and false. They embraced Jesus but not his philosophy. That created their own by twisting the Gospels and adding canons that did not belong. What Jesus called "the devils church" which described those who would take Jesus' theology and use it to create a different religion altogether, one of the worst sins you could commit supposedly, said Jesus. The Roman Empire had to embrace Christianity, but they wanted to use it for bloodshed and war. Roman Catholic church now became the new Roman army really, just doing so in the name of God. Nothing really changed but telling the masses the blood was in the name of God now.


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## New Age United (Feb 8, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Well said, again. And yes, we always have a choice.
> 
> If I could have summarized my beliefs before doing the born-again thing I think that would have been very close.
> 
> ...


The prophets including Siddhartha were simply philosopher's; like Plato they achieved the height of heights. The Roman Empire did not embrace Jesus they crucified him, and the Pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate Rolling Stones, ultimately sealed the fate of the Roman Empire and the Jews got the blame for everything. What the Romans embraced was what the four men assigned by Constantine to write the gospels wrote by contorting the word of Jesus to mean different things.
"Do not start a religion after me" JC
"Now is the time for humanity to abandon religion" The Dali Lama

One thing I do see is great wisdom and truth in the words of the prophets of each religion, it takes a perceptive reader to decipher the wisdom of the prophets.


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## budman111 (Feb 8, 2015)




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## Sure Shot (Feb 8, 2015)

They are all saying the same story gentlemen.
Here is the Oh so mystic tarot deck, decoded.
Read those stories again, for a picture is worth a thousand words.​
*
Judgement*, Birth ~ *The Chariot*, The Crib ~ *The Sun*, “Kid”, young goat ~ *The Lovers*, Puppy love, attraction of opposites, separation of sexes. ~ *The Moon*, Ovulation/Maturity ~ *The Star*, Out with old sign, in with the new sign. ~ *The Hierophant*, Showing new and true sign/spirit animal ~ *The Tower*, the reckoning, mistakes catching up with you ~ *The Emperor*, Ascension/Adulthood ~ *The Devil*, Temptation for Power ~ *The Empress*, Temptation for Lust ~ *Temperance*, Taming the beast within. ~ *The High Priestess*, Marriage of souls ~* Death*, Fading of old life into new life ~ *The Magician*, One man becoming 2 through magic of childbirth. ~ *Justice*, Man behind the curtain, the veiled threat. ~ *The Fool*, Man balancing unknowingly, before Justice’s (L)edged blade. No know-ledge ~ *Wheel Of Fortune*, trials ans tribulations of life. ~ *The Hermit*, knower of hermetic wisdom. Knowledge ~ *The World*, Becoming one with the Earth. ~* Strength*, gained through union of Man and Beast. ~ *Judgement*, Death ~ *The Chariot*, The Crypt/Ferry​
52 lesser cards are for the 52 weeks of the year. 13 cards in each suit, 13 weeks in each season. 4 suits for 4 seasons​
A Never-ending Story with 24 steps out of 22 cards. 2 pents for the Boatman 
*Tarot*​


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## New Age United (Feb 8, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> They are all saying the same story gentlemen.
> Here is the Oh so mystic tarot deck, decoded.
> Read those stories again, for a picture is worth a thousand words.​View attachment 3347512
> *Judgement*, Birth ~ *The Chariot*, The Crib ~ *The Sun*, “Kid”, young goat ~ *The Lovers*, Puppy love, attraction of opposites, separation of sexes. ~ *The Moon*, Ovulation/Maturity ~ *The Star*, Out with old sign, in with the new sign. ~ *The Hierophant*, Showing new and true sign/spirit animal ~ *The Tower*, the reckoning, mistakes catching up with you ~ *The Emperor*, Ascension/Adulthood ~ *The Devil*, Temptation for Power ~ *The Empress*, Temptation for Lust ~ *Temperance*, Taming the beast within. ~ *The High Priestess*, Marriage of souls ~* Death*, Fading of old life into new life ~ *The Magician*, One man becoming 2 through magic of childbirth. ~ *Justice*, Man behind the curtain, the veiled threat. ~ *The Fool*, Man balancing unknowingly, before Justice’s (L)edged blade. No know-ledge ~ *Wheel Of Fortune*, trials ans tribulations of life. ~ *The Hermit*, knower of hermetic wisdom. Knowledge ~ *The World*, Becoming one with the Earth. ~* Strength*, gained through union of Man and Beast. ~ *Judgement*, Death ~ *The Chariot*, The Crypt/Ferry​
> ...


The hermit, Knower of hermetic wisdom, how rarely people associate that with the hermit.


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## Sure Shot (Feb 8, 2015)

Let me take you up to the mountaintop and back down again via ~Moses~

*The Story Of The Ten Commandments*

The Israelites travel with Moses up to the Mountain. *THE CHARIOT*

Moses leaves the Israelites for 40 days with a Golden Calf. *THE SUN*

At the Mountain top Moses gains the Ten Commandments through a burning bush. *THE LOVERS*

1. I am the true God (Amun-Ra~ Sun Moon Earth) ~ *THE MOON*

2. Before me, other Gods you shall have not ~ *THE STAR*

3. To vanity you shall take not ~ *THE HEIROPHANT*

4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy ~ *THE TOWER*

5. Honor Thy Mother and Father ~ *THE EMPEROR*

6. You shall murder not ~ *THE DEVIL*

7. You shall not commit Adultery ~* THE EMPRESS*

8. You shall not steal ~ *TEMPERANCE*

9. You shall not bear false witness ~ *THE HIGH PRIESTESS*

10. The House of your neighbor you shall not covet ~ *DEATH
 *


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## Mad Lab (Feb 8, 2015)

New Age United said:


> The prophets including Siddhartha were simply philosopher's; like Plato they achieved the height of heights. The Roman Empire did not embrace Jesus they crucified him, and the Pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate Rolling Stones, ultimately sealed the fate of the Roman Empire and the Jews got the blame for everything. What the Romans embraced was what the four men assigned by Constantine to write the gospels wrote by contorting the word of Jesus to mean different things.
> "Do not start a religion after me" JC
> "Now is the time for humanity to abandon religion" The Dali Lama
> 
> One thing I do see is great wisdom and truth in the words of the prophets of each religion, it takes a perceptive reader to decipher the wisdom of the prophets.


The Roman Empire did not embrace JC, they embraced his philosophy hundreds of years after they put him to death. They did this because they could not stop the spread of Christianity and saw they could use it. 

"Do not start a religion after me" - which verse are you referring to?

Jesus already believed in a religion at that point, of course he was Jewish. But what he did say is any prophet after my death is not a prophet of God and to take there words with a grain of salt, except for the remaining apostles, which only included John's revelation. Jesus taught everything that needed to be taught to humanity and put a stamp of authority on it. 

Constantine did not have the remaining apostles write the gospels at one time for the New Test, they were written before, as we have Marks gospels dating over a hundred years before Constantines time. Constantine was not alive when the apostles where alive, i believe it was 200+ years later. 

So I dont agree with your opinion on him having the apostles write the gospels as he saw fit. 

And even if the scribes changed things for Constantine, they didnt write much to aide the Roman Empire, in fact it was the opposite, doesnt make much sense to me. 

It was what they added after the process of compiling the Bible. The Christians were very involved with deciding which gospels and cannons were included, it was not all Constantine.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 8, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> They are all saying the same story gentlemen.
> Here is the Oh so mystic tarot deck, decoded.
> Read those stories again, for a picture is worth a thousand words.​View attachment 3347512
> *Judgement*, Birth ~ *The Chariot*, The Crib ~ *The Sun*, “Kid”, young goat ~ *The Lovers*, Puppy love, attraction of opposites, separation of sexes. ~ *The Moon*, Ovulation/Maturity ~ *The Star*, Out with old sign, in with the new sign. ~ *The Hierophant*, Showing new and true sign/spirit animal ~ *The Tower*, the reckoning, mistakes catching up with you ~ *The Emperor*, Ascension/Adulthood ~ *The Devil*, Temptation for Power ~ *The Empress*, Temptation for Lust ~ *Temperance*, Taming the beast within. ~ *The High Priestess*, Marriage of souls ~* Death*, Fading of old life into new life ~ *The Magician*, One man becoming 2 through magic of childbirth. ~ *Justice*, Man behind the curtain, the veiled threat. ~ *The Fool*, Man balancing unknowingly, before Justice’s (L)edged blade. No know-ledge ~ *Wheel Of Fortune*, trials ans tribulations of life. ~ *The Hermit*, knower of hermetic wisdom. Knowledge ~ *The World*, Becoming one with the Earth. ~* Strength*, gained through union of Man and Beast. ~ *Judgement*, Death ~ *The Chariot*, The Crypt/Ferry​
> ...


I have seen you state this many times, well, the genesis story in different deliveries. 

But what about post-genesis?

What exactly do you believe SureShot?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 8, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> I have seen you state this many times, well, the genesis story in different deliveries.
> 
> But what about post-genesis?
> 
> What exactly do you believe SureShot?


I don't know that story, but if you will truly entertain the idea I will uncode it for you. Although, I am sure with an open mind you can find the starting point and just go from there. It's that easy. Remember that the calendar used to start in March. Know your cardinal signs. I have a few more images on my site that can help for a picture is a thousand words. And, there is much to be told. For it is a never-ending story!

Believe? Not much. This is what I know it's mathematical and verifiable. In fact, every one of these posts has been very different and each image took me hours of calculation/formation. Each revelation has just led to the next. I am relaying my work with a fellow researcher in the field. Santos Bonacci. Besides him and a few others, you people are some of the first to see this synchronisation in possible hundreds of years and still others for over a millennia. I understand your frustration and hesitation, no doubt. Actions of a wise man. Just try and discount one element of any of my depictions. For if they have error, I would be grateful at their revelation. If you are willing to listen to Santos for a bit he has many lectures devoted to cracking this. His 30 years of work were fundamental to my understanding. I have a few of his videos on my website or you can find them on YouTube. I would recommend his 2 part on Astrotheology personally.

Instead of sticking to beliefs how about simply entertaining ideas and gaining knowledge.

For instance, DId you know there is a rabbit in the moon? Perception is a matter of perspective.


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## Sure Shot (Feb 8, 2015)

Look again at the uncoded tarot deck. It is simply telling the story of one's life from womb to tomb. Starting at Chariot ending with Judgement Day. Although, more correctly starting at the end(Judgement) and ending at the start(Chariot).


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

Ok, i will spend a little time to peek into these ideas as I believe astrotheology has been around since perhaps the beginning. 

Santo's lectures are available online somewhere?

I must ask, what is the source of the stories? mathmatics? or a source telling the stories with astrology?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Ok, i will spend a little time to peek into these ideas as I believe astrotheology has been around since perhaps the beginning.
> 
> Santo's lectures are available online somewhere?
> 
> I must ask, what is the source of the stories? mathmatics? or a source telling the stories with astrology?


Yes, you can find some here on my website. truthtokens.com/astrology or just go to Recent Articles. He references much literature and is fluent in Latin and other languages. Some of the literature is easy to find, others are very rare.
Mathematics are the base to everything. Even this alphabet with which we are communicating.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> Yes, you can find some here on my website. truthtokens.com/astrology or just go to Recent Articles. He references much literature and is fluent in Latin and other languages. Some of the literature is easy to find, others are very rare.


Thank you, I will check it out, very interesting subject. 


Sure Shot said:


> Mathematics are the base to everything. Even this alphabet with which we are communicating.


I agree that mathematics are the base to everything and also the base of astrology. But what is the source providing the laws associated with the mathematics? Does a story(mathematics) explain its origins?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Good question. There you will find the "Lord" of the manor. The father has left his "phi"nger print everywhere.
The Fibonacci ratio, is the Phi-Bonacci ratio. It is the source code for all carbon life forms. It is also the Mathematics of how Saturn keeps it's rings.
Called "Ring Homomorphism". In the alphabet it is represented by the letter Q. Which is the actual mark of the "FreeMason". The highly occult 33 degrees is no longer occult. A G @ 33 Degrees is a Q _ G=Q @33 and vice versa. The line in the Q is also where this compass zeros in at. SE

Without this, it would have been left unsolved!

You need this map


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## New Age United (Feb 9, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> The Roman Empire did not embrace JC, they embraced his philosophy hundreds of years after they put him to death. They did this because they could not stop the spread of Christianity and saw they could use it.
> 
> "Do not start a religion after me" - which verse are you referring to?
> 
> ...


When he is speaking to the deciples in the gospel of John just before telling John or Peter was it that he would stay and wait until he comes again. Or no sorry that quote is a translation from the dead sea scrolls I saw in a documentary about the DaVinci code, I still have it home I won't be home till Wednesday I'll get back to you with the title. This is from the gospels however, "do not pray in the streets or in the synagogues for others to see, for men love to be seen praying" He also teaches not to worship false idols, which I imagine included himself.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

New Age United said:


> When he is speaking to the deciples in the gospel of John just before telling John or Peter was it that he would stay and wait until he comes again. Or no sorry that quote is a translation from the dead sea scrolls I saw in a documentary about the DaVinci code, I still have it home I won't be home till Wednesday I'll get back to you with the title. This is from the gospels however, "do not pray in the streets or in the synagogues for others to see, for men love to be seen praying" He also teaches not to worship false idols, which I imagine included himself.


There are many gospels that were not included in the Bible and for good reason: they are not consistent and many Christians at the time the Bible was put together did not feel they should be added. There was much nonsense written, as always, but we shouldnt acknowledge it, such as the gnostic gospels that scholars have found no credibility. 

The dead sea scrolls are great because they showed us that other Jewish sects believed that the messiah had truly come and was the son of god during the time of JC. Also, the scrolls proved the Old Testiment was not changed in over 500 years, which is amazing. 

Of course, this means nothing to those who dont believe the Bible was the end result of God's purpose. 

The verse you refer to is Matthew 6:5 it reads this:
_"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 

"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.…"_

Are you saying this is support for the statement of not forming a religion after me? I disagree. This is telling the follower that the relationship with God is not a public affection, it is private, but this in no way is telling us not to preach. Jesus is condemning hypocrites those who make an ostentatious display of praying.

And your statement on worshipping false idols, is incorrect. To make that statement you would automatically have to discredit JC as God and therefor any statement made about worshipping false idols would have no authority.



Jesus DID change his religion and I see where your going with the idea. He wanted people to see that man was worshipping incorrectly and he came to SHOW mankind how to live. This is the beauty of it really, God gave up being god - something he asks of man: DO NOT TRY TO BE GOD. Something man has trouble not doing.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> The highly occult 33 degrees is no longer occult.


Curious by what you ment in this statement? Crediting freemasonry as no longer being a occult reference?


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> Without this, it would have been left unsolved!



Can you tell me more about this artifact? As i said before I love astrotheology and I'm very interested.

When did they date this piece to?



*Also, is mathematics modeled after time or infinity? More specifically, is there an origin?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Curious by what you ment in this statement? Crediting freemasonry as no longer being a occult reference?


Occult just means hidden. I'll have to put together a demonstration to fully explain the compass and square. Let me try, though. With a compass you draw a circle. Fold this circle in half and half again. Unfold, and you have the four corners. Fold in the sides, to form a perfect square. Fold corner to corner, unfold and repeat. Now, you can unfold the flaps, and form the 8 sided pyramid that will become apparent to you. This is called the "net" of a circle.
This is the mathematics that freed the Mason "builder".

P.S.: If you cut the tip off, it is a lot easier to fold the pyramid at the end.


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Can you tell me more about this artifact? As i said before I love astrotheology and I'm very interested.
> 
> When did they date this piece to?
> 
> ...


I have tried to find any reference to a 10 point compass but have yet to find anything. Still looking. But, words are a means to meaning. Words themselves tell a story, as well as the individual letters within them.
For instance, the Norse people whom are commonly referred to as Vikings. 
It it most likely a reference to Nor ~ Se. North and South East being the two starting points in the sailor's compass. 
The Vikings, were the VI~Kings or 6 kings. The six terrestrial gods of the Midgard Realm. Two more of which were in the Asgard Realm and 2 more in the Spiritual Realm. They follow the same geometry as the Kaballah. The reason it's been so hard to deduce their exact locations before was because of this missing link to SE. It seems to have almost been a second "North" to these people. Still working on exactly how.

I would say infinity is modelled after mathematics. 
For instance, look again a the "evil" swastika. 
Dare you draw this, you will see it's true beauty.

On the top left corner write 52 for weeks in a year
On the top right corner write 7 for days in a week
On the bottom left 28 for days in a month (MOONth)
On the bottom right 13 for weeks in a season (Also months in a year originally)

Now you will see the math of our universe.
Also, you can add all those digits together and they sum 100.


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Once you understand all this and can demonstrate it yourself. With this "net", you will become "Fishers" of men.
Serious stuff gentlemen. This is the unity of all faiths. For this is the source of all faiths.
No matter if you are talking to an Eskimo, an Aborigine, or anything in between.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> I have tried to find any reference to a 10 point compass but have yet to find anything. Still looking. But, words are a means to meaning. Words themselves tell a story, as well as the individual letters within them.
> For instance, the Norse people whom are commonly referred to as Vikings.
> It it most likely a reference to Nor ~ Se. North and South East being the two starting points in the sailor's compass.
> The Vikings, were the VI~Kings or 6 kings. The six terrestrial gods of the Midgard Realm. Two more of which were in the Asgard Realm and 2 more in the Spiritual Realm. They follow the same geometry as the Kaballah. The reason it's been so hard to deduce their exact locations before was because of this missing link to SE. It seems to have almost been a second "North" to these people. Still working on exactly how.
> ...


As you state, you see true beauty in the geometrical shapes such as the sawastika, but the abuse of astrotheology has made it evil. 

Just as this knowledge likely began with the Seth and passed on to his children, these were supposedly Gods gift of knowledge to man and were ment to stay close to that connection. 

Once upon a time this knowledge needed to be hidden from evil men, hence the beginning of occult, which is as you say, hidden knowledge. So the gnostics, mystics, magi, etc kept it close, so mankind could continue to use it for good as opposed to evil. 

But therein lies another issue, although the intention is to keep the knowledge for good, man was still the keeper and no man is safe from sin, and therefor used this knowledge for evil. Not so much the power to destroy as much as using it for the power of control. Secrets are never the way to enlightenment.

Jesus Christ and many others acknowledge the occult and this valuable spiritual knowledge in the Bible, but gives advice worth noting. 

_All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you. Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Here are no coals to warm anyone; here is no fire to sit by. That is all they can do for you—these you have labored with and trafficked with since childhood. Each of them goes on in his error; there is not one that can save you. (Isaiah 47:13-15)_

I think one can get consumed in the mathematics, which i doubt can bare much fruit to their spiritual enlightenment. 

What fruit may come from the stories involved with astrotheology? Personally, I think it is a spiritual maze, to get lost in, perhaps falling away from perhaps the only savior. I dont disagree with the study of it, but one must be careful not to be consumed. 

How does the stories explain the neccessary opposing force of good? It must exist yes, but what advice does it aide to man regarding good and evil. I hope it isnt to embrace both. 

I studied quite a bit of freemason literature. It was actually what enlightened me. Not to astotheology, but Jesus.


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## CC Dobbs (Feb 9, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?
> 
> What are your sentiments on this?
> 
> ~PEACE~


There is no reason to believe in make-believe creatures or the institutions that support the continued belief in make-believe creatures.

Messiah


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

I read the information regarding our topic on your website, and would agree that based on the historical data we have that it is fairly accurate.

Although, I believe Jesus is tied in differently, not just a philosopher.

When New Age commented about Jesus not wanting his philosophy to be a religion, I dont think he is far off. Religion is not good because religion is not true, but the TRUTH can be a religion, leaving all others to be false. So, Jesus was essentially advising similar ideas as stated in your summary but giving people information that was previously held back from the masses. And also in terms where everyone could understand, not just the ruling families, but the poor as well. The poor were always left out of enlightenment, which is what God (lord of manor)(I would say Architect of Universe but I believe him to be the opposing force God created) wanted to deliver and did through Jesus.




*Its funny you mentioned Saturn. I remember reading one of Manly Hall's book and his notes about Christianity being the Sun, Islam being Venus and Judea being Saturn, the origin of the energy. Abraham being the father of each.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> There is no reason to believe in make-believe creatures or the institutions that support the continued belief in make-believe creatures.
> 
> Messiah


You must hang out with Neva...


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> As you state, you see true beauty in the geometrical shapes such as the sawastika, but the abuse of astrotheology has made it evil.
> 
> Just as this knowledge likely began with the Seth and passed on to his children, these were supposedly Gods gift of knowledge to man and were ment to stay close to that connection.
> 
> ...





The swastika is not a shape as much as it is simply the number 4 ~ 4 times. No form without function. 
You obviously didn't do the exercise, but are ready to talk about it.
Carriage before the Horse
You speak of deities created from this same understanding. "Jezeus"
Zeus's time past exactly when they tell you. Well, not the day or the hour, but the year.
We are now in the house of Cronos or Saturn. Known to you likely as Satan.
After Cronos House comes Zeus again.
This is because the Father is The Farther.
Like, a King of the Hill.
His rings stay unmolested by the lower Gods. 
We know not the day or hour of Jezeus's(Jupiter's) return, but we will mark the year as "1" when he does.


As far as good and evil. You can't define without contrast.
Try and draw with black ink on black paper.
Or white ink on white paper.
Words are simply a means to meaning and they usually fail.
Therefore, a picture is worth at least a thousand words.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

No, didnt do the excercise yet so I wouldn't know what I was ready to talk about. 

So with your last statement you lean more toward the astrolatry as opposed to astrotheology? Worshipping the stars as deities, rather than more of a deist point of view, studying the stars and accepting the Father? Or am i off base there?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> No, didnt do the excercise yet so I wouldn't know what I was ready to talk about.
> 
> So with your last statement you lean more toward the astrolatry as opposed to astrotheology? Worshipping the stars as deities, rather than more of a deist point of view, studying the stars and accepting the Father? Or am i off base there?


No, just putting in different words.
For words are simply a mean to meaning.
They usually fall short of their intent. Like arrows, you must aim high and adjust.
A rose by any other name is still the same.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> As far as good and evil. You can't define without contrast.
> Try and draw with black ink on black paper.
> Or white ink on white paper.
> Words are simply a means to meaning and they usually fail.
> Therefore, a picture is worth at least a thousand words.


Agreed. My "devil" is just an opposing force that is necessary for the good to exist. I understand that, but to embrace the "devil" is different than accepting it as a natural force. Understanding how evil the "devil" or opposing force can be is something that embracing in the wrong way can be bad in my opinion.


**Do you believe in what the higher learning of freemasonry teaches? The road to enlightenment is really just astrotheology for them.

But regarding the Architect theory and the good/evil energy embracment stuff.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

You must be versed in history as well. I would love to hear what you think about some ancient monolithic sites such as gobekli tepe.

As it relates to astrotheology, obviously.


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Yes and that is taming the beast within. A necessary step in growth and symbolised with the "Temper"ance card of the Tarot. 
(Equilibrium)


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## Mad Lab (Feb 9, 2015)

So are these gods real for you or just stories and words based on mathematics?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> You must be versed in history as well. I would love to hear what you think about some ancient monolithic sites such as gobekli tepe.
> 
> As it relates to astrotheology, obviously.


*So far, they are taking their sweet ass time with it!*
Only pieces unearthed. But, it appears to correlate having animal carvings from areas not indigenous to the area.
I have yet to plot anything out I have shared everything as soon as I have uncovered it.
For instance, the math of the Swastika. I just unlocked that less then 2 days ago.
It just came to me playing with the cycles and working out exponents of 13.
Your on this trip with me friend. Please join in, using only math and believing nothing, yet entertaining anything.
A Juggler/Fool. The Poker deck is also based off this tarot deck and these reasons for the seasons.
52 cards = 52 weeks, 13 in a suit = 13 in a season, 4 seasons = 4 suits, 3 face cards per suit = 3 signs per season.
Cardinal(Jack), Fixed(Queen), Mutable(King). Joker(365) day, 2nd Joker(Leap year).


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> So are these gods real for you or just stories and words based on mathematics?


Truth is stranger then fiction, they are real and they are math.


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

Another one that will help.
Captains of a ship keep a Log(Lag).
Rule of Law is Rull of Lag.
Lag Rull - Log Roll.
This was symbolised in log rolling contests in Europe.
Chronos is the captain now.
This is Chronos' Log or chronological.


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

"A wise man knows himself to be a fool. While a fool, thinks himself to be a wise man."


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## Sure Shot (Feb 9, 2015)

*Same OLD Story. You are the first to see this. I am publishing it now!*


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## 6ohMax (Feb 10, 2015)

I like how grown ups have imaginary friends!


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## Mad Lab (Feb 10, 2015)

Sure Shot said:


> *So far, they are taking their sweet ass time with it!*
> Only pieces unearthed. But, it appears to correlate having animal carvings from areas not indigenous to the area.
> I have yet to plot anything out I have shared everything as soon as I have uncovered it.
> For instance, the math of the Swastika. I just unlocked that less then 2 days ago.
> ...


Yeah they sure are. 

Now that I have a little more of what you lean towards, astrotheology, I now know the context of the statements regarding Jesus, etc.

As with most astrotheologists, I assume you believe that its a story that has been repeated many times, such as Eygpt etc. But is this true? Is a story that is similiar to another the same? Im not so sure. Its more of a theory that is based on observation, while possible, still nothing to take to the bank. 

And juggling the definition of truth around only goes so far. Truth is absolutely stranger than fiction, because theres no way of knowing it. 

Evolution, good idea, likely possible yes, true.. we will never know. 
The same goes for your theory on stories repeating themselves in different manners. As well as my belief of Christianity. 

But, to go as far as to say gnostics really just told the story of Jesus in the form of an allegory, and noone was ever to take it literally, it was always easy for me to believe until I read the story(bible) again and again. 

The way the story read was not similar to what most gnostics told there parables/allegory. Jesus spoke in parables in certain circumstances, yes, but the entire story was not. 

Also, the bible was taught similar to how it is now since its inception and likely didnt have the option to change its chorse from gnostic parables to literal/parable.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 10, 2015)

I think the bottom line comes to this:

What to pass down to our children. What do we want to teach them and what we do teach them how do we offer an authority. 

Atheists pass down no authority, except there own, which is not a godly model doing so in the image of a man. 

What would you, as an astrotheologist, pass down? Would it work for everyone? 

Mans fate is destruction, but whats the best way for everyone to TRY to love eachother in the meantime, as successful as possible?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 10, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> I think the bottom line comes to this:
> 
> What to pass down to our children. What do we want to teach them and what we do teach them how do we offer an authority.
> 
> ...


 

Ya. It works for everyone (So Far). I'm know I haven’t gotten to every single culture yet. Just most of them.  It's a big world after all. I will continue from one to the next, it's like key to lock. 

As far as passing down knowledge. I run a private school as well.
I'm a "jack of all trades", you might say. It took all corners of the universe to bring this together. But now, Humpty Dumpty is back together again.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 10, 2015)

I see many truths in astrotheology. Formulas with answers. 

But with any belief system, we hope that "the truth will set you free", the question is, does it?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 10, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> I see many truths in astrotheology. Formulas with answers.
> 
> But with any belief system, we hope that "the truth will set you free", the question is, does it?


Great question. I have pondered that so many a time. Now I know the truth, and yes it has freed me beyond belief!


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## Sure Shot (Feb 11, 2015)

This knowledge is hiding in plain sight.


Follow Dorothy(*Virgo*), as the twister puts her off bearings and she lands on a witch(*Libra*). Leaving only cup shapes that turn out to be slippers. Following the yellow brick road, she gets back on path. Where she meets the Lion(*Leo*), Scarecrow(*Scarab/Crab*), and the T(w)inman(*Gemini*). She goes on to the land of Oz(x)-(*Taurus*), where she is led to the Wizard(*Aries*). Off to the West to kill the witch on a broom(*Scorpio*). Chased by flying mokeys shooting arrows(*Sagitarius*) she climbs a steep staircase(*Capricorn*) to find a bucket of water (*Aqaurius*). Splash the bucket of death on the witch and off to tap her slippers(*Pisces*) together. No place like home folks, no place like home.


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## Mad Lab (Feb 13, 2015)

Tyler, your views on astrotheology?

Also, have you spent anytime studying it?


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## Sure Shot (Feb 13, 2015)

*Just finished decoding the entire Tarot deck!*




​


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## Sure Shot (Feb 13, 2015)

Watch the Hobbit. Frodo is the Ace of Cups, Gandolf is the King Of Cups, Radagast is the King Of Pentacles.


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## mainliner2 (Feb 13, 2015)

Nevaeh420 said:


> Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?
> 
> What are your sentiments on this?
> 
> ~PEACE~


 why shouldn't they?


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## New Age United (Feb 13, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> As you state, you see true beauty in the geometrical shapes such as the sawastika, but the abuse of astrotheology has made it evil.
> 
> Just as this knowledge likely began with the Seth and passed on to his children, these were supposedly Gods gift of knowledge to man and were ment to stay close to that connection.
> 
> ...


Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; the opening of the Torah. You must transcend your mind and thus your conscience if you are to attain Enlightenment; you must transcend that nagging little voice inside your head that casts you out of Paradise; the Ego is one clever little devil. Good and Evil are just perspectives in your mind but they have the power to torment your soul. Do not judge things; circumstances or situations, as being good or bad. The Eternal Present is absolutely perfect, accept perfection, accept paradise.


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## tyler.durden (Feb 13, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> Tyler, your views on astrotheology?
> 
> Also, have you spent anytime studying it?


Honestly, I had never heard the term before this thread. I perused the wiki page, it seems interesting to a degree. At the end of the day it just seems like another instance of apophenia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia


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## tytheguy111 (Feb 14, 2015)

im pretty much a atheist but i would be willing to defend the right to religion if you get what i mean 

my veiw on religion is that it has both benefits and bullshits 

look at the 30 year war were the prodistents and catholics got in a war over it 

look at the middle east right now 

it causes unneeded wars 

and personally i think its b.s. because it makes people more closed minded 

but the benefits is,

it gives people hope 

morals to follow 

and most teach to spread love not hate 


i take that into my life now i do say pretty homophobic shit and racist shit in a joking manner 

and i dont see why theres assholes that truely hate people soley based on there sexuality or race i mean are you gonna have a short life or lose sleep because someone is gay???? or the pigment of there skin??? no so why worry about it you know what i mean

i think its kinda nasty (gay sex) but i believe everyone has the right to be happy just like in the declaration of Independence that our fore fathers wrote 

"life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" the three unalienable rights in america and it should be everywhere else too


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## Mad Lab (Feb 14, 2015)

tytheguy111 said:


> im pretty much a atheist but i would be willing to defend the right to religion if you get what i mean
> 
> my veiw on religion is that it has both benefits and bullshits
> 
> ...


I like atheists who bring points such as yours and also respect certain aspects of religion. Also the other tyler in this thread.

As a Christian I am in agreement who those who make a bad name for us. For instance, condemning homosexuals and attempting to take away or not give them their rights. Or keeping them out of churches, so wrong. If a church is not open to ALL, it is likely not the church of God.

Jesus never spoke of homosexuality, so I dont much. I have many gay friends and while i dont believe any of them are truly happy(content or complete, really) i dont see them as a mortal sinner.

But, to agree with homosexual marriage, one must also agree with insestious marriage, as long as the subjects were both over 18, consentual, and not reproducing.

To say one is gross as opposed to the other is subjective and the atheist must agree to both. On the subject of reproduction, one can deny this, but when compared to homosexuality it is similiar in the sense that both are bad for reproduction. One doesnt allow it (homosexuality)(which may be worse for this agrument) and one degrades it(insest).


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## Mad Lab (Feb 14, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> Honestly, I had never heard the term before this thread. I perused the wiki page, it seems interesting to a degree. At the end of the day it just seems like another instance of apophenia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia


agreed. 

i have an interest though, because it appears to have been around as long as man. and the elite still sponsor it.

but as i said before, seems like a spiritual maze getting lost in mathematics. 

if God did or is communicating to man, it is not through this, for i doubt he would only communicate to elite, rich and/or extremely intelligent. The poor are too often discluded in false religion, doesnt make much sense.


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## tyler.durden (Feb 14, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> agreed.
> 
> i have an interest though, because it appears to have been around as long as man. and the elite still sponsor it.
> 
> ...


Humans evolved to be very good at some things, one of which is pattern recognition. We're so apt at that skill that it often goes into hyper-drive to see patterns where none exist, and as a consequence, ascribe meaning to the meaningless. Those of us trained in critical thinking can be aware of these short circuits and irrational tendencies in an attempt to avoid their pitfalls, but we are seduced by their spell if not constantly vigilant. If there was an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent creator, logic and morality suggest that they would make their presence and guidance known in a way that was conclusive and indisputable. Just as us good parents do for our young children. Better yet, just biologically instill that knowledge into every sentient creature. Anything short of these things seems ineffective and wasteful at best, and cruel and petty at worst...


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## Mad Lab (Feb 15, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> Better yet, just biologically instill that knowledge into every sentient creature. Anything short of these things seems ineffective and wasteful at best, and cruel and petty at worst...


couldnt have said it better myself. 

Which kind of reminds me of something that was always odd to me, setting science aside, i always think how interesting it is, that humans, the only 'known' intelligent lifeform that (likely) evolved to be the only intelligent creatures on the earth, that evolved with such different facial features you can tell virtually everyone in the world apart, even twins if you look close enough. 

While, almost every other creature in the animal kingdom doesn't even come close to human beings. And yes, I understand it was likely do to different races perhaps mixing so much that we got what we do today after breeding for thousands of years, similar to what we do with cannabis.

But the odds that a series a extremely unlikely (statistically) chemical accidents allowed life to form anywhere in our universe, plus the fact that the first intelligent lifeforms on earth evolved to be able to tell all XX billion people apart from eachother, when no other animal does or is require to. Did the fact we were intelligent enough to start to feel attraction to physical appearances as opposed to primate's primitive attraction to other qualities when selecting mates?


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## Alienwidow (Feb 15, 2015)

this idiots turning into the latest riu embarrassment more every day. don't post on his threads, you just make his mushroom mind more attention hungry. deuces.


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## tyler.durden (Feb 15, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> But the odds that a series a extremely unlikely (statistically) chemical accidents allowed life to form anywhere in our universe, plus the fact that the first intelligent lifeforms on earth evolved to be able to tell all XX billion people apart from eachother, when no other animal does or is require to. Did the fact we were intelligent enough to start to feel attraction to physical appearances as opposed to primate's primitive attraction to other qualities when selecting mates?


We are really not sure what the odds of life forming are. New data is suggesting that in virtually any environment capable of sustaining life, life will inevitably form - https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140122-a-new-physics-theory-of-life/
Scientists have come close to creating a-biogenesis in the lab, I believe in the not-too-distant-future that HS students will start life as part of the curriculum - http://www.wired.com/2009/05/ribonucleotides/
And other newly discovered data hypothesizes life can have easier, humbler beginnings than we previously thought - http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25471-spark-of-life-metabolism-appears-in-lab-without-cells.html

As you say, humans rely heavily on our sense of sight even though human sight is far inferior to many other animals. Many other species also rely on sight to distinguish individuals from one another, and use sight as the main sense to choose mates and such. Other species use different senses such as smell and hearing as the main senses to choose mates, but all have the same criteria: to choose the strongest, healthiest mates in order for our genes to have the best chance of survival...


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## Sure Shot (Feb 15, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> couldnt have said it better myself.
> 
> Which kind of reminds me of something that was always odd to me, setting science aside, i always think how interesting it is, that humans, the only 'known' intelligent lifeform that (likely) evolved to be the only intelligent creatures on the earth, that evolved with such different facial features you can tell virtually everyone in the world apart, even twins if you look close enough.
> 
> ...


We are not the only ones to make the connections or rely upon them. Birds won't likely fly on cloudy days, because they can't see the stars.
Bower birds build and decorate a bed chamber for mating purposes only. Some bowers are pyramid builders, others build domes that look like a straw hut. They also literally paint the interior with saliva. Flower petals are placed over the threshold for her, and are replaced as they wither!


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## Mad Lab (Feb 18, 2015)

tyler.durden said:


> As you say, humans rely heavily on our sense of sight even though human sight is far inferior to many other animals. Many other species also rely on sight to distinguish individuals from one another, and use sight as the main sense to choose mates and such. Other species use different senses such as smell and hearing as the main senses to choose mates, but all have the same criteria: to choose the strongest, healthiest mates in order for our genes to have the best chance of survival...


but why was it necessary for homosapiens to evolve from the primate criteria to what we have today? 

although primates have been found to use sight as a minor sense, they use other methods to choose mates. 

why would we have the NEED to evolve in that area? that matches with darwins theory?


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## tyler.durden (Feb 18, 2015)

Mad Lab said:


> but why was it necessary for homosapiens to evolve from the primate criteria to what we have today?
> 
> although primates have been found to use sight as a minor sense, they use other methods to choose mates.
> 
> why would we have the NEED to evolve in that area? that matches with darwins theory?


I don't know if it was _necessary _that we evolved to rely so heavily on sight, I think that is begging the question. Evolution does not have intention or a certain goal in mind. Evolution by Natural Selection (EBNS) states that with a certain frequency, when genes copy themselves they mutate. Most of these mutations are detrimental or catastrophic to the organism, so it does not survive long if at all. Every so often, one of these random mutations proves to be an advantage in a given environment, so that mutated gene out competes the current gene pool. A popular theory is that cooking our meat is a main factor in our brains growing so large: by cooking meat we didn't require the extreme enzymatic action as other primates to break down raw meat, which is the reason other primates have proportionally larger and extended stomachs where ours are naturally flatter. Cooked meat is much easier to digest. I believe that it would be more advantageous if we had much better hearing and sense of smell, as well as better sight. But we obviously have done very well with our current limitations 

Here's a fantastic Nova 3 part series that allows one to acquire a good understanding of human evolution. It has great CGI and is fast-paced, and it's packed with hundreds and hundreds of pages of knowledge in less than 3 hours. Enjoy!


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## Johnny1120 (Mar 26, 2015)

If religion makes a person feel better, gives them comfort, and helps them deal with the stress in their daily life, it does indeed serve a purpose. Put simply, religion is an attempt to wrap your head around the mysteries of the universe that you do not understand. Unfortunately like most things, once you enter people into the equation there is the tendency to deviate from trying to understand the truth of the universe to forcing what you believe on others, hence organized religion.

Everyone has a religion because everyone at their core seeks to understand the world around them. Fortunately not everyone follows organized religion. I am a graduate of Liberty University, and I started as a Christian. The more I learned about organized religion and Christianity in particular, the more I discovered I did not want to be a part of it.

Think for yourself and make up your own mind, and it is likely that you will not become involved with organized religion, but if letting others do your thinking for you gives you comfort, there is still a purpose in it.


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