# 4 Inches is all them girls need?



## Cold$moke (Jan 10, 2018)

Hey all ,
After a little research I've decided to try air pruning roots of seedlings to hopefully encourage faster root growth..

If your interested look up DR. Whitcomb air pruning roots .
Lots of neat info here.

But basically he says a tap root is a evolutionary defense for plants so they can survive harsh environments by sending its tap root down deep
In search of water.

... but he says that the tap root is unnecessary in the grow room because we provide all the plant needs and is a waste of plant energy.
He says a large fiberous root system is best

I encourage to watch the video for impressive test results and im not quoting him just giving you the jist of it.

Other studies show roots can actually sense gravity and naturally go down even around obstacles (duh)

Anyways being one that always heard you need to keep that tap root happy
I never would have thought to intentionally reduce the length of the almighty tap root.

So i took 6 seeds (freebies)
Dutch passion auto blackberry kush 1
Seedism exodus 2
Seedism lemon gold drops 1
Thseeds bubblegum 1
And blimburn green crack 1

I put them in 4inch rockwool cubes that are elevated on a rack .

They popped right around Christmas
And i observed in a day or 2 the tap root went almost straight as an arrow to the bottom of the block then a few days later another ect.

Now a little over 2 weeks the blocks are filing nicley and i intend to keep them in the blocks till its mostly roots 

Then i will transplant into the final systems..
Hopefully they will explode with roots since they will be allowed to grow as big as they like.

Which after seeing DR. Whitcombs results im quite hopefull

So i know other people have done this but has anyone here done it?

If so was it worth it?

I know after finding out about it from a youtube guy. Grow pot cheap .

His video is called the first 4 inches is all you need.
Hence the name of my title is a shout out to him

He grew some nice trees that where supposedly autos.
Ill post pics later as im busy today
Just seeing if anyone eles has done this


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 11, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Hey all ,
> 
> ...... the first 4 inches is all you need.


My wife hears that everyday.......


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## vostok (Jan 11, 2018)

if this shit is really important to you

look up grafting its a lot easier

to take an old male/female scion(rootball) and tape it to a very very young fem

that way you get all the roots you want

and about 30x? larger than normal

good luck


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## Cold$moke (Jan 11, 2018)

Its not like im putting great effort into it 

Plus to me grafting isn't the same as supercharching the plants own root system cause i would have to keep old plants that doesnt sound fun or productive to me but im not a farmer or botanist

Im just making the roots airprune themselves just as an experiment . But thats how we learn right

You are correct that I dont care enough to graft a plant .yet lol

But ill sure do the air pruning of the tap root if it makes a difference  it requires nothing from me at this point except a hand watering every other day

And after looking into mr. Whitcomb's research I see no reason why it wouldnt work ......other than i dont have a "control" plant next to them

I appreciate the input for sure! @vostok

I will post pics but theres not much to see yet just 16 day seedlings in 4 inch cubes


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## Flowki (Jan 11, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Hey all ,
> After a little research I've decided to try air pruning roots of seedlings to hopefully encourage faster root growth..


Essentially you could put small cuttings into a big air pot and water about 300mil a day for the first week, 400mil next week, and so on?. Or is this initial 4 inch volume set in stone.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 11, 2018)

In stone according to Dr. Whitecomb
Look him up its very impressive @Flowki

He will explain better than i can 
Was mainley seeing if anyone here was doing it yet


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## vostok (Jan 11, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Its not like im putting great effort into it
> 
> Plus to me grafting isn't the same as supercharching the plants own root system cause i would have to keep old plants that doesnt sound fun or productive to me but im not a farmer or botanist
> 
> ...


[email protected] after reading ur thread I went onto that YT and watched the rec. vid boring but the one at 17min with the old man was very cool 

suggesting a 4inch pot modified to alter the tap root...I think his accent was to strong for me

I goota watch again is about trees and burlap?

if so then the simple addition of a eggshell or similar would cramp that tap root..?

cheers/


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

vostok said:


> [email protected] after reading ur thread I went onto that YT and watched the rec. vid boring but the one at 17min with the old man was very cool
> 
> suggesting a 4inch pot modified to alter the tap root...I think his accent was to strong for me
> 
> ...


Even better if you look up DR . WHITCOMB
His accent is heavy but hes done the research for us glad you at least looked into it


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

Pics 
Please excuse how the seeds look ,not my best work; ) first time in rockwool. 
Popped about Christmas time.
The exodus isnt a runt i fucked with it and stunted her a bit 

 
After airpruning started (about 2 days from hiting light) there is a new bunch of roots every day. 
Will update in a week


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

vostok said:


> one at 17min with the old man was very cool
> 
> I goota watch again is about trees and burlap?
> 
> ...


The guy basically is a tree farmer and he has created the tap root modified pot THATS THE KEY. 
.
But im making due with 4 inch block as i dont want to put dirt in my room again at this point lol

. he also has made a light reflective air pots to keep roots happy from intense heat.

But the whole key to the super root is making the taproot into a horizontal rather than vertical system.

I got big plans for these girls.

Some will go to my rdwc and some will go to my
New meniscus membrane flood and drain table


This should let the roots grow in straight air within a dark humid chamber with either a pc fan or some air stones just to exchange air in the
Chamber.

Cant wait till the run im working on is done so i can rip out one rdwc and replace it with the meniscus setup. 

Thanks for stopping in vostok


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## Flowki (Jan 12, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> In stone according to Dr. Whitecomb
> Look him up its very impressive @Flowki
> 
> He will explain better than i can
> Was mainley seeing if anyone here was doing it yet


Yeah I seen the vid, warrants a side by side though. The diff between a 4 inch to 6 inch pot is minute, I don't doubt the concept (yet) but still struggle to accept 4 inch pot = the only magic volume. Seems more convenient for him to pick a ball park size and make/sell pots at that.

I've also seen vids on tap roots that basically say if they get root bound you limit root mass a lot even if you up pot. I think the general concept is to A: not use a small pot initially (4 inch+ if he's right) and B: not to let the tap root get root bound via air prune pots.


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## vostok (Jan 12, 2018)

*Four inches is all you need --Make her explode ...maybe!*


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

And those are supposed to be AUTOS


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

Flowki said:


> Yeah I seen the vid, warrants a side by side though. The diff between a 4 inch to 6 inch pot is minute, I don't doubt the concept (yet) but still struggle to accept 4 inch pot = the only magic volume. Seems more convenient for him to pick a ball park size and make/sell pots at that.
> 
> I've also seen vids on tap roots that basically say if they get root bound you limit root mass a lot even if you up pot. I think the general concept is to A: not use a small pot initially (4 inch+ if he's right) and B: not to let the tap root get root bound via air prune pots.


Could be very true.but im not a botanist so i really couldnt say..

Dr. Whitcombseems to be set on 4 inches 
It might have been due to cutting cost of a 6 inch pot but why?
If he did all the research would he not go with a 6 inch in the first place? You could be very right though.

@vostok yea thats where i found out about dr.w 
But the dr. Also has some other videos 
That are more informative as to why he does stuff. 


@Flowki i dont think there is a chance of it getting root bound for a good long while as the roots keep air pruning and making new lateral roots.

Basically like an airpot does no root encircling. 
I thought about removing the sides as well on the blocks so it could prune all 5 sides.
But algae sucks so i was trying to limit that.

But mabey next time i can make a dark dry air chamber to put the pants in ?

Anyways its just a easy fun experiment 
That doesnt take much work from me.

And if i see a notable differences in root mass and structure it will have been more then worth it in my opinion 

Thanks for stopping by


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

Again the only reason im trying is because of how many trials .
On roots that Dr. Whitcomb has done.
Everything he says makes sense to me ,a non professional .

If you look up his videos he talks of why they dont go with a deeper container i think its in a clip where he says they used to use old milk cartons to grow out of.

Keep in mind hes a tree farmer not a weed farmer lol but the theories seem sound to me


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## BloomFielder (Jan 12, 2018)

That dude grows bunk weed!!, which I would expect from autos.
But I ran this theory and to my knowledge, it was a waste of money spent on 4" Rockwood cubes and attempting to kill the tap root.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

BloomFielder said:


> That dude grows bunk weed!!, which I would expect from autos.
> But I ran this theory and to my knowledge, it was a waste of money spent on 4" Rockwood cubes and attempting to kill the tap root.


Would love to see your results


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

And just your comments about bunk weed from autos tells me much 

Ive only done one auto but it was great smoke and changed my mind on them.

How did you run his theory @BoomFielder ?

Also the guy in the video is doing supposed autos.

I have never seen anyone take an auto that big, have you? If so where?


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## Flowki (Jan 12, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Again the only reason im trying is because of how many trials .
> On roots that Dr. Whitcomb has done.
> Everything he says makes sense to me ,a non professional .
> 
> ...


I'm not saying it doesn't work (air pots or any kind of pruning pot have shown to be superior) but I struggle to accept his notion that 4 inch pot is the key to growing big plants. Obviously the tree below was not started in a 4 inch pot and is clearly not restricted. If you start seeds and allow the tap root to root bound in a small pot the tree (and as your guy showed) mj plant does not reach it's potential, I've seen the vids on that. I'm just saying I think the guy has found a ''minimum'' pruning pot size that reduces or removes that effect and took it to market. From a marketing stance where else could he go?. Air pots of bigger sizes are already well established so the smaller ''rooting'' or ''germination'' sizes is probably a good gap in the market. Crop count issues probably also played a part, I imagine tree nursery's want to fit as many into a space as possible during that low foliage root development stage. But that almost sog like approach does not suite every mj grower.


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## vostok (Jan 12, 2018)

vostok said:


> *Four inches is all you need --Make her explode ...maybe!*





Cold$moke said:


> And those are supposed to be AUTOS



_*is this not the original vid that you wanted us to watch ....bummer I'm lost?*_


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

Flowki said:


> I'm not saying it doesn't work (air pots or any kind of pruning pot have shown to be superior) but I struggle to accept his notion that 4 inch pot is the key to growing big plants. Obviously the tree below was not started in a 4 inch pot and is clearly not restricted. If you start seeds and allow the tap root to root bound in a small pot the tree (and as your guy showed) mj plant does not reach it's potential, I've seen the vids on that. I'm just saying I think the guy has found a ''minimum'' pruning pot size that reduces or removes that effect and took it to market. From a marketing stance where else could he go?. Air pots of bigger sizes are already well established so the smaller ''rooting'' or ''germination'' sizes is probably a good gap in the market. Crop count issues probably also played a part, I imagine tree nursery's want to fit as many into a space as possible during that low foliage root development stage. But that almost sog like approach does not suite every mj grower.



I hear you BUT NOW IMAGINE IF THAT TREE HAD BEEN! 
Also i didnt see anywhere where Dr.whitcomb lets a plant BECOME ROOT BOUND

If anything this is what he is fighting, GIRDLED LANKY ENCIRCLING roots 

And if you actually whatch his videos (i know it takes time to watch)
He is really agaisnt crappy nursery trees


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

vostok said:


> _*is this not the original vid that you wanted us to watch ....bummer I'm lost?*_


Yes that is the vid i mentioned in the first post.
This is where i discoverd the method

But the DR. Actually gives more in depth break down of whats going on

Im tech stupid ill try and post a link lol

Your good vostock your not lost budd
I typed a shitload in the first post lol


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## BloomFielder (Jan 12, 2018)

Will try to post pics later(maybe) grew some sinmints that way but I quite didn' see much difference as i wouldnt have: used the rockwool until the roots branched out from the sides, transfered into moist coco allowing it dry n only continue watering only the rockwool allowing the roots to run through coco freely in aeration until completely dry, then continue to water whole medium an as usual.
Never seen anyone take it to that level of "f***n roots" as he states, either, dude does an amazing job but his bud looks so bad..other grows I've seen growing autos, and yes I've seen autos hit 10-11 ft and yielding at least a pound in the outdoor suburbs but end product quality prove to stray away from em /maybe Grower error.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

The video is called
"improving plant root structure Dr. Carl whitcomb give full lecture"

Its a little dry and long but packed with tidbits


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

BloomFielder said:


> Will try to post pics later(maybe) grew some sinmints that way but I quite didn' see much difference as i wouldnt have: used the rockwool until the roots branched out from the sides, transfered into moist coco allowing it dry n only continue watering the rockwool allowing the roots run through coco until completely dry n continue to water whole medium an as usual.
> Never seen anyone take it to that level of "f***n roots" as he states, either, dude does an amazing job but his bud looks so bad..other grows I've seen growing autos, and yes I've seen autos hit 10-11 ft and yielding at least a pound in the outdoor suburbs but end product quality prove to stray away from em /maybe Grower error.


I agree on the looks of the buds

But props none the less to growing an auto that BIG i surely have never seen anyone do it.

Also its not just letting the roots grow from the sides so much as it is building a huge store of roots 

Which when allowed to be free should explode
With roots dr whitcombs example pics are crazy!

Mabey you just didnt let the roots build up enough first?

Thanks for the replies


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## Flowki (Jan 12, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> I hear you BUT NOW IMAGINE IF THAT TREE HAD BEEN!
> Also i didnt see anywhere where Dr.whitcomb lets a plant BECOME ROOT BOUND
> 
> If anything this is what he is fighting, GIRDLED LANKY ENCIRCLING roots
> ...


I agree it works but I don't think the maximum restriction is a 4 inch pot. How can that single size be true for every tree let alone plant?.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 12, 2018)

Flowki said:


> I agree it works but I don't think the maximum restriction is a 4 inch pot. How can that single size be true for every tree let alone plant?.


Whatch the video he can explain better than me as im not a botanist. 

I think it has to do with hormonal changes that happens to the tap root after it exceeds 4 inches.

Basically if you kill the main tap root it sends replacement TAP style roots 
By confining it you turn the tap root off and engage lateral roots.

Like i said im not a dr. Nor phd nor botanist nor farmer. So i might be expaining it badly ; )

Basically you want to train the root to grow horizontal in that first 4 inches 

Im sure the same result could happen with a 6 inch cube .

But im sticking to the guy that has done thousand of hours


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## twistedvinesofbud (Jan 13, 2018)

Flowki said:


> Yeah I seen the vid, warrants a side by side though. The diff between a 4 inch to 6 inch pot is minute, I don't doubt the concept (yet) but still struggle to accept 4 inch pot = the only magic volume. Seems more convenient for him to pick a ball park size and make/sell pots at that.
> 
> I've also seen vids on tap roots that basically say if they get root bound you limit root mass a lot even if you up pot. I think the general concept is to A: not use a small pot initially (4 inch+ if he's right) and B: not to let the tap root get root bound via air prune pots.



Typically a plant being root bound is a bad thing root starvation and deprivation. A plant being root bound will starve the roots and stress the plants which could reduce the potency and quality of the plant.

Has anyone ever seen a pot plant get root bound? I'm sure it can happen


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## Flowki (Jan 13, 2018)

twistedvinesofbud said:


> Typically a plant being root bound is a bad thing root starvation and deprivation. A plant being root bound will starve the roots and stress the plants which could reduce the potency and quality of the plant.
> 
> Has anyone ever seen a pot plant get root bound? I'm sure it can happen


As far as mj goes I think it's uncommon in practice. Most newb growers can't get a good enough root system to risk bounding while experienced growers have the correct pot size or style to accommodate.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 13, 2018)

I trim off any long roots at each re-potting to force them to branch out and fill the pot from top to bottom with lots of fine feeder roots. Even when moving them from little starter cups I just snip off the bottom of the root ball with sccisors or with bigger pots use a bread knife to saw the bottom off and even shave down the sides to get rid of any stringy roots.

Roots branch out just like the top portion of the plant does when it gets topped.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

All of which is disscussed in dr. Whitcombs research.

It real and its out there.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

@Dr.Who
@Odin* @Kingrow1 @Flowki @OldMedUser

Im not SAYING ANYONE OR MYSELF IS RIGHT

BUT IM WAITING......... FOR REASERCH STUDIES. THAT SHOW THIS WOULD BE BAD............

unfortunately i will keep on with my experiments

Till someone comes here with more then forum talk 
@budman111 would like to hear your side of the story as well sir

Till then its about as worthless as a untopped marijuna plant in the wild (doubt its good).

But please prove me wrong as im here to learn not bicker

Peace


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## Kingrow1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Youll just make the same amount of surface area of root hairs wether you prune or not.

Air pots might fill the volume of soil more efficiently but they dont increase yeilds over normal pots.

The main idea was so you could have bigger plants in smaller pots thus increading floor space for more plants.

Yer airpots and root pruning works a treat but dont be thinking they increase biological efficiency.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

You keep refering to air pots!

Who the hells talking about air pots!

Im going to be building the base roots to go into
A rdwc and a meniscus membrane flood and drain table. ......

Still obviously you didnt do any research on what IM talking about 

Still no proof to make me stop unfortunately
But i appreciate the responses.

Im not trying to be argumentative but please post something with a backbone that i can look up.

Your OPPINON of an air pots preformance is MOOT unless you have done the aforementioned root BUILDING IN THE FIRST STAGES OF LIFE .

Again these are not going in an AIRPOT!


Kingrow1 said:


> Youll just make the same amount of surface area of root hairs wether you prune or not.
> 
> Air pots might fill the volume of soil more efficiently but they dont increase yeilds over normal pots.
> 
> ...


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Again not trying to be a dick
But i wants facts backed up with proof. Of some kind 

The rest is just oppinon and heresay


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## Kingrow1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Simple answer is yes it works but no it dosent make a difference, if thats too complicated refer to my above post on biological efficiency.

Most likely your struggling to root a rockwool cube is all


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> Simple answer is yes it works but no it dosent make a difference, if thats too complicated refer to my above post on biological efficiency.
> 
> Most likely your struggling to root a rockwool cube is all



Oh all the sudden it works but doesnt matter


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## Kingrow1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Again not trying to be a dick
> But i wants facts backed up with proof. Of some kind
> 
> The rest is just oppinon and heresay


Prove us wrong then


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## Kingrow1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Oh all the sudden it works but doesnt matter


Why bother with it is my question? Build roots wow, still get outyeilded by those that dont bother but simply have it dialled in....


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Well the way i see it should be easy heres a root ball at about 4 weeks since it left the cloner i use kelp and humic thats why my roots are dark 

 

So after i transer a plant that i build the roots up 
I will take another pic @ 4 weeks  should be clear as day and have SOMETHING to show


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> Why bother with it is my question? Build roots wow, still get outyeilded by those that dont bother but simply have it dialled in....


 Why top a plant?
Why grow Indoors?

Unless your throwing your seeds in the woods and letting them do what ever nature intended. 

You are in fact modifying nature to reap the rewards...

Do i not make a point?

Go back 30 years and tell farmers to grow in water theyd respond to you like you are to me?


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> Prove us wrong then


If you READ my post i NEVER claimed ANYONE was right or wrong.

This is why im DOING IT to see.

Does this not make sense?

Im still wondering what the others i called out will say

Its quite comical that everyone says no but cant prove it


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## Kingrow1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Why top a plant?
> Why grow Indoors?
> 
> Unless your throwing your seeds in the woods and letting them do what ever nature intended.
> ...


I top plants to create a canopy as i yeild more under indoor lights than singke cola.

I grow indoors because its illegal and thats my best and only chance to.

Unless you have some kind of restrictions on root size then why prune roots? You do know it wont increase yeilds.....


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> I top plants to create a canopy as i yeild more under indoor lights than singke cola.
> 
> I grow indoors because its illegal and thats my best and only chance to.
> 
> Unless you have some kind of restrictions on root size then why prune roots? You do know it wont increase yeilds.....


So basically not following natures rules right 

This is the advanced section i want advanced answers .

Not people that havent tried it


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

[QUOTE="Kingrow1, post: 14008544, member: 3361

Unless you have some kind of restrictions on root size then why prune roots? You do know it wont increase yeilds.....[/QUOTE]

This part right here prooves we are not talking about the same thing because you havent researched it fully


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## Kingrow1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> So basically not following natures rules right
> 
> This is the advanced section i want advanced answers .
> 
> Not people that havent tried it


No dude you wont accept our answers so maybe this forum isnt as advaced as you require.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> No dude you wont accept our answers so maybe this forum isnt as advaced as you require.


What answers have you given?
NONE THAT CAN BE BACKED UP as proof that this wont increase yeilds

MY POINT was made when i said why do you top a plant..

Mabey in 5 years youll be pruning your roots!

Do some research before you come back and while your at it cut and paste some stuff.
For me to see.

Cause if the answers are SO unadvanced then why isnt the information there?

Give me one side by side photo
One article.
and ill shut my trap


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Honestly can you say youve tried what Dr. Whitcomb has done and saw the results for your self?
@Kingrow1


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## Kingrow1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> What answers have you given?
> NONE THAT CAN BE BACKED UP as proof that this wont increase yeilds


Ah so finally we get to the crux of the matter, you want to increase yeilds.


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## Kingrow1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Honestly can you say youve tried what Dr. Whitcomb has done and saw the results for your self?
> @Kingrow1


Yep, pure hype, you cannot increase biological efficiency with simple tricks.

Theres a reason why a lot of us do things simple like, because weve all done the whole grow progression of root makers, rockwool pruning, aero roots, uv lights, beneficial microbes, calmag etc etc 

and not one of them things ever yeilded a gram more.

How about you get a shift on and work through it all get yourself upto our level


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> Ah so finally we get to the crux of the matter, you want to increase yeilds.


Yea the same reason you top fuck


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> Yep, pure hype, you cannot increase biological efficiency with simple tricks.
> 
> Theres a reason why a lot of us do things simple like, because weve all done the whole grow progression of root makers, rockwool pruning, aero roots, uv lights, beneficial microbes, calmag etc etc
> 
> ...



Pics or bulshit hmmmm
Either way ill have PROOF in time


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> Yep, pure hype, you cannot increase biological efficiency with simple tricks.
> 
> Theres a reason why a lot of us do things simple like, because weve all done the whole grow progression of root makers, rockwool pruning, aero roots, uv lights, beneficial microbes, calmag etc etc
> 
> ...


Still not a lick of evidence

Back it up......then why dont you 

I also think this is a lie 
Cause you didnt even know what the fuck was being asked for several comments lol
Doubt you ever heard of Dr. Whitcomb 
So stfu


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## SSGrower (Jan 13, 2018)

I thought it was 6 inches?

No serious, are these fems or regulars? Are you concerned about root trauma or limitation causing higher chance of males?


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

These are fems and 1 auto.

Im not worried as these test beans where freebies. 

This is why im TESTING to see the good and bad. 

Thanks for an actual question  i will know if they all herm or dont produce well 


Thanks for stopping in i will post an update once a week


SSGrower said:


> I thought it was 6 inches?
> 
> No serious, are these fems or regulars? Are you concerned about root trauma or limitation causing higher chance of males?


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## Kingrow1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Still not a lick of evidence
> 
> Back it up......then why dont you
> 
> ...


I dont back shit up, i wait for the point where i get to say i told you so, yaknow like on them guess the sex threads where everyone thinks its male and only im saying different but i end up right and get to say i told you so.

You have a week to stop that happening


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> I dont back shit up, i wait for the point where i get to say i told you so, yaknow like on them guess the sex threads where everyone thinks its male and only im saying different but i end up right and get to say i told you so.
> 
> You have a week to stop that happening


What will happen in A week?
Please answer im begging you.

... so in other words youd rather just try and ridicule.me if i fail?

Im sure you do sit back till you see results so you dont look like an ASS . I dont have this fear.

Cause it doesnt matter if it works or doesnt I WILL HAVE FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE NOT HERESAY

And i will post it good or bad cause im not a pussy  and i Back up what i put down

I hope you get to laugh at me though .

But at least i have the balls to try and SHOW

Your the only doubter that has continued on 

the others wouldnt even reply yet mabey its not their time zone lol


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## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Kingrow1 said:


> I dont back shit up, i wait for the point where i get to say i told you so, yaknow like on them guess the sex threads where everyone thinks its male and only im saying different but i end up right and get to say i told you so.
> 
> You have a week to stop that happening



Basically , it sounds like your a pussy
That just ridicules or praises depending on whats better for you?

This is not a noob that cant tell a male from female  ive been at this for 14 years so far

And this experiment will last much longer then a week friend


----------



## dlftmyers (Jan 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Hey all ,
> After a little research I've decided to try air pruning roots of seedlings to hopefully encourage faster root growth..
> 
> If your interested look up DR. Whitcomb air pruning roots .
> ...


Interesting..Thanks for sharing


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 13, 2018)

Sorry for all the childish bickering
Please stop by in a few days for a new pic update

Thanks for stopping in 


dlftmyers said:


> Interesting..Thanks for sharing


----------



## dlftmyers (Jan 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Sorry for all the childish bickering
> Please stop by in a few days for a new pic update
> 
> Thanks for stopping in


No problem man..I'll be looking forward to the updates


----------



## Flowki (Jan 14, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> If you READ my post i NEVER claimed ANYONE was right or wrong.
> 
> This is why im DOING IT to see.
> 
> ...


Nobody is saying no. We are saying this is not a brand new concept at all.. but that the man you speak of is pretty much re spinning the concept to sell pots. You don't need to prove your 4 inch rock cube will work because we already know it does, his pots are basically ''air pots'' and your cubes are basically ''air cubes'', see the connection?. What you DO need to prove is that the same results of a 4 inch pot can not be achieved using a 6 or 8 inch pot. Forget about root fill times because obviously the bigger pot is creating more roots thus should take longer. In terms of end weight, so long as both are treated the same and up potted when they are individually ready I would not bet against both being near the same weight if the seeds are of similar expression. If they are not then results will vary either way.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 14, 2018)

Flowki said:


> Nobody is saying no. We are saying this is not a brand new concept at all.. but that the man you speak of is pretty much re spinning the concept to sell pots. You don't need to prove your 4 inch rock cube will work because we already know it does, his pots are basically ''air pots'' and your cubes are basically ''air cubes'', see the connection?. What you DO need to prove is that the same results of a 4 inch pot can not be achieved using a 6 or 8 inch pot. Forget about root fill times because obviously the bigger pot is creating more roots thus should take longer. In terms of end weight, so long as both are treated the same and up potted when they are individually ready I would not bet against both being near the same weight if the seeds are of similar expression. If they are not then results will vary either way.


DUUHH

(Edit to add ; guys i dont give a fuck about a 4 inch vs 6 inch cube pot whatever im trying to get the drs. Results without having to try "his" pots. At the same time i might buy them IF THIS WORKS. He didnt use a 6 inch cube neither will i.

Go watch the whole lecture video and tell me why you think he doesnt use a 6 inch pot cause he gives reasons for stopping at 4 inches god damn some peoples kids.)




about the cube being an "air cube" thats why im using it.

And the responses to the rest of your comments ive already answered in my previous post basically

You still did not provide me with anything i didnt already know and you still havent convinced me otherwise (im a stubborn one  )

And look in page 3 kingrow blatently said
Hes honestly tried it and it doesnt do any thing.

Also odins qoute was go ahead fuck your roots up.
So yes people DID SAY IT SHOULDNT BE DONE

Ill see for my self thanks though
Id appreciate if the naysayers dont have any photos that they just NOT post
Or
an article wrtten by ANYONE with a proper background saying it will lessen yeilds or otherwise harm the plant.

Till then please dont make this thread bigger
I havent even made it to week3 pics yet lmao

Its ok if im wrong too wouldnt be the first slice of humble pie ive had


----------



## Flowki (Jan 14, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> DUUHH
> 
> Defensive post


And once again I ask.. how is 4 inches the magical number for every single tree and plant species?. No matter the size of plant/tree in nature, no matter the root system or growth speed type.. they all achieve the best possible result in a 4 inch pot?.

Why are you saying ''if it works'' when we all clearly know IT DOES WORK (it's essentially air pruning + not water logging into anaerobic conditions) and we, or at least I are simply arguing the finer points. You seem intent on making this out to be some righteous venture against your own projected popular disbelief.

Btw, just because you are posting pics it does not give you any moral high ground in telling other people to put up or shut up. What you currently have is not hard to match or beat, I'll politely leave it there.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 14, 2018)

Flowki said:


> And once again I ask.. how is 4 inches the magical number for every single tree and plant species?. No matter the size of plant/tree in nature, no matter the root system or growth speed type.. they all achieve the best possible result in a 4 inch pot?.
> 
> Why are you saying ''if it works'' when we all clearly know IT DOES WORK (it's essentially air pruning + not water logging into anaerobic conditions) and we, or at least I are simply arguing the finer points. You seem intent on making this out to be some righteous venture against your own projected popular disbelief.
> 
> Btw, just because you are posting pics it does not give you any moral high ground in telling other people to put up or shut up. What you currently have is not hard to match or beat, I'll politely leave it there.



And i didnt say mine would beat anyones  either so piss on that one.

I asked for proof this doesnt increase yeilds by increasing root growth no one has any ,that i have seen thank you very much

Get off your ass and do the research like i did and youll have your answer

I dont know why you guys are hung up on this
Im doing it so there nothing eles to be said as far as im concerned

Good day


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 14, 2018)

And once again i ask that you do some research
Before asking the same question over and over to which i gave my OPPINON

REMEMBER IM NOT THE DR. THAT DID THE STUDY

Hopefully you can UNDERSTAND


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 14, 2018)

Sorry @Flowki 

Let me start over

I dont KNOW if the same results can be had in a 4 vs 6 inch cube ....

Im testing a 4 inch because thas as CLOSE as i can get without purchasing the dr.s pots.

Does this answer your question?


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 15, 2018)

Just as an update.
Ive added a clone to the root pruning experiment. 

These just had their longer roots pruned off.
And i will continue to prune them at 4x4 inces till it gets put into a system. 

Will have the weekly pic on Wednesday


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

13 days from being cut

Pruned the long single stringers off twice now


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

Heres the update on the seedling in the test.

Good and bad lol


Ok seedling roots are still developing. 

But due to my inexperience with rockwool
I slighlty underfed them.

And they seem a little droopy cause Im not used to how much water the blocks can hold.

Basically i should have had my feed up and waterd less.


But here are the roots. Not as fuzzy as last time 
 
Sorry for the hps lights lol


----------



## max420thc (Jan 18, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> The guy basically is a tree farmer and he has created the tap root modified pot THATS THE KEY.
> .
> But im making due with 4 inch block as i dont want to put dirt in my room again at this point lol
> 
> ...


What I like to do in rockwool cubes is take a little syringe and put a few drops of bennificial bacteria into the cube establishing a nice colony in the cube and watch them bitchs explode. 
Voodoo juice was one of my favorites to do this with.


----------



## max420thc (Jan 18, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Heres the update on the seedling in the test.
> 
> Good and bad lol
> 
> ...


Rock wool holds moisture like crazy to much , so you have to be careful watering them. Wait till it gets close to dry you can tell they start turning a lighter color before you rewater them again


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 18, 2018)

Yea plus my vpd was off in my room

I changed my humidty settings last night and they are already perking back up with the cubes fully saturated!

So i got that one licked


Also my mix has bennies in it @max420thc
But thanks for the heads up

Edit to add actually i have to double check that

I am running RAW. Grow and bloom and i cant remeber if they mix in bennies or not


----------



## 907guy (Jan 23, 2018)

I use pure rockwool start to finish, took me a round to get use to it.

I start seeds in 4” blocks, for cuttings I cut the 4” blocks into quarters.

The trick is to soak the blocks for 10 min or so and then flick/whip the extra water out of them. I put them under a dome and you shouldnt have to touch them for some time.

To rehydrate, I find it’s better to dip the bottom inch or so in your nute solution for about 5 seconds rather then do a top feed until you pot them.

Cuttings get dipped in clone x and stuck into the quartered block then into the dome for 2 weeks.

I have have almost 100% success like this, I dont even spray the dome or monitor temps/rh of the dome. It just sits in my veg tent along with everything else.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 23, 2018)

I do too 
I soak my blocks in ph water first then i shake that out and soak
In 1/4 strength BLOOM nutes 
Kelp, humic acid and b vitamins 

My clones look like shit that i tried in rockwool but 100 percent survival 
Still not giving up my aerocloner lmao

Ill got get an update pic soon


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 23, 2018)

19 days from cut

Interesting is the more i cut it it stays short like a bonsai


----------



## esh dov ets (Jan 29, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Hey all ,
> After a little research I've decided to try air pruning roots of seedlings to hopefully encourage faster root growth..
> 
> If your interested look up DR. Whitcomb air pruning roots .
> ...


wonder if this effects phenotype expression.


----------



## 3GT (Jan 29, 2018)

OK so how about a 4" fabric pot with flyscreen bottom? So the taproot comes out and gets air pruned


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 29, 2018)

esh dov ets said:


> wonder if this effects phenotype expression.


Quite possible. 

But i woulf think it doesnt hide expression. 

But mabey shows it in a different light


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 29, 2018)

3GT said:


> OK so how about a 4" fabric pot with flyscreen bottom? So the taproot comes out and gets air pruned


 Seems like it would work just fine.

Im actually glad u started doing the trials on clones because 
Im just a miserable noob with rockwool lmao
I think i should have put them in a system about 

3 weeks after they started dividing roots

As i think. I might be pushing them too hard


But im very happy with the results from the cloner and on the next test i wont put it into a 4 inch cube

But will pop the seed in a 2 inch cube and as soon as the root comes out ill let it get to a total of 4 inches then

I will try manually cutting it

The clones has had its roots trimmed almost every day and the roots are getting heavy lol


----------



## davillains (Jan 29, 2018)

sorry to butt in, thought this would be relevant ... my entry for a 16oz beer container contest (vegged 25 days)


----------



## esh dov ets (Jan 30, 2018)

davillains said:


> sorry to butt in, thought this would be relevant ... my entry for a 16oz beer container contest (vegged 25 days)


that grow from 16oz ? hydro?


----------



## davillains (Jan 30, 2018)

esh dov ets said:


> that grow from 16oz ? hydro?


There's an inch of clay pebbles at the bottom and the rest I filled with coco. I water the tray it sits on so it works like an autopot.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 30, 2018)

davillains said:


> sorry to butt in, thought this would be relevant ... my entry for a 16oz beer container contest (vegged 25 days)


Sweet little can o grass 

Its kinda relevant 

Now what would the results have been if 
You had another in a 4 inch air pot?

Imo the best way to test what im doing(ill try it when i get room lmao)


Would be to plant a clone in a 4inch pot

And one in a rootmaker pot

Then after about id say 3 weeks or so 
Tranfer into a 5 gallon pot and switch to 12. 12
Then at the end you would of course compare the plants them selves to see which yeilded more (cause if not its not worth it)

Ill grab an update on the clone roots later they are putting on a lot of weight for being cut at 4 inches lol

And i think im going to use this method to keep my veg roots from entagling with each other 
As well as helps to keep node length to a minimum 

Thanks for stopping in


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 30, 2018)

Also 
After my small amount of experiments 

I find that the root pruning does increase lateral root growth 

But i think i need to time it a little different. 
Because after a while i think it just keeps the plant compact like a bonsai tree lol

But im glad for that too as ut keeps moms and clones small (i have a small veg room )


----------



## esh dov ets (Jan 30, 2018)

davillains said:


> There's an inch of clay pebbles at the bottom and the rest I filled with coco. I water the tray it sits on so it works like an autopot.


going to try this in a solo cup challenge. it might be cheating as everyone is using soil. not against the rules tho. that's probably a bigger plant than soil from the same size.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 30, 2018)

esh dov ets said:


> going to try this in a solo cup challenge. it might be cheating as everyone is using soil. not against the rules tho. that's probably a bigger plant than soil from the same size.



I know i am  going to prune the root

But no external res or watering systems allowed


----------



## Heber (Feb 1, 2018)

I'm trying this very method, but in a 6" block picked 3rd largest Bruce banner 3 clone and put in block. Rest are in soil .


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 1, 2018)

Heber said:


> I'm trying this very method, but in a 6" block picked 3rd largest Bruce banner 3 clone and put in block. Rest are in soil .


Cool man feel free to post your stuff here

I wanted rockwool because i wanted to go to a custom flood and drain/nft setup.

But the root pruning seems to be doing the sam thing on clones as well mabey not exact but
I think the most beneficial woyld be from a seed.

But
Every time i trim the roots.
More lateral growth happens so its doing something lol

And it is keeping the clone very short and tight


----------



## 907guy (Feb 1, 2018)

Did you happen to set up a control? Just wondering if you’ve noticed any slow down in growth. Will it refocus on roots after you trim them or does it not seem to care?


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 1, 2018)

907guy said:


> Did you happen to set up a control? Just wondering if you’ve noticed any slow down in growth. Will it refocus on roots after you trim them or does it not seem to care?


I did not do a control.

Just whatching with my eyes 

To me yes,

It doeant seem to slow growth in the seedling for about 2 weeks after that at least for me they seemd to slow a little...
..but that could be to my never using rockwool before lol

I am conviced though that it will make a bigfer more fibrous root system.

The seedlings i started dont look that great thats why i havent posted any pics lol
But i need them to slow down anyway so i can empty my room.

I think the next round of trying this will be better as i will have more room to work.

Also next time im going to chop 4 in h cubes
In to 4 peices that way the roots will fill the block in a shorter amount of time.


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 1, 2018)

907guy said:


> Did you happen to set up a control? Just wondering if you’ve noticed any slow down in growth. Will it refocus on roots after you trim them or does it not seem to care?



The neat thing is 
With the clones is the plants are staying CRAZY short with really tight internodes spacing. 

And im using a shit led in my veg and its hung up way high... i figured the clones would stretch with the light being so far up but 
They have stayed really tight.


This is definitely something im going to explore for a few grows.

I will set up a control eventually when i clear up some room

Thanks for the interest


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 1, 2018)

Plus its not really fair for results on this go because im switching nutes half way though a grow wich is something i dont normally like to do.

But im done with hydro store nutes sobi need to learn the new fertilizers. 

Its wierd though because the roots on the clones 
Where growingan inch or 2 everyday...

But have slowed since i switched the.nutes?


It makez me want to buy some more RAW grow and bloom to finish the tests

The roots really seem to like the RAW nutes 

The synthetic nutes are so clean looking though
It barely colors the water which is what i want.

But i think the plants resond to the biostimulants
In the raw nutes more?


----------



## BigHornBuds (Feb 5, 2018)

Are you that guy on YouTube 
Grow weed cheap or something? 

He has a video with the same title 


Can’t say I watched it or read the thread tho.


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 5, 2018)

BigHornBuds said:


> Are you that guy on YouTube
> Grow weed cheap or something?
> 
> He has a video with the same title
> ...



Nope,
i named it that so i could give that guy props 

He is where i found out about dr whitcomb 

I figured its cooler to let people know someone eles thought about it first
And give them credit for it lol

At least thats how i do things


----------



## Nugs1 (Feb 5, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> It makez me want to buy some more RAW grow and bloom to finish the tests
> 
> The roots really seem to like the RAW nutes


RAW Nutes are awesome.... I started using them this summer and I believe due to the nutes I had a super duper crop that should have been just a decent little grow. I started some new trees from seed using the nutes from the get and they are better looking than anything I've ever grown and thats a lot.... This whole grow for me will be with the Raw line Grow and Bloom also a couple of their amendments as suggested by the feeding schedule. I'll mess with adding more and less later after a couple good grows.

I TOTALLY suggested RAW Nutes!


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 5, 2018)

Nugs1 said:


> RAW Nutes are awesome.... I started using them this summer and I believe due to the nutes I had a super duper crop that should have been just a decent little grow. I started some new trees from seed using the nutes from the get and they are better looking than anything I've ever grown and thats a lot.... This whole grow for me will be with the Raw line Grow and Bloom also a couple of their amendments as suggested by the feeding schedule. I'll mess with adding more and less later after a couple good grows.
> 
> I TOTALLY suggested RAW Nutes!



I agree i can recommend them although to be truthful

I didnt finish a run, just vegged with them

So couldnt say anything on the bloom side of things.

I switched to a full sythectic nutrient. Sense im running a high aeration setup i didnt want to brew a bad tea lol

But i will include RAW single ingredients in my testing

I have already started using raw kelp and humic with the synthetic nutes to see how they play with each other. 

The roots love the kelp and humic in there so far though


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 5, 2018)

They are just too spendy 
As i supported a hydro store for years im trying to stop lol

Now im running the 4-20 mix from chem gro
@ 25 bucks for 5 pounds


----------



## projectinfo (Feb 6, 2018)

I just keep cutting the roots and lollipop ping my mothers. Working great so far.


----------



## Nugs1 (Feb 6, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> I agree i can recommend them although to be truthful
> 
> I didnt finish a run, just vegged with them
> 
> ...


I finished out a grow this summer with just the amendments, almost the full line of it. I saw a big difference from when I was just using GH liquid nutes. 
Im in my first straight RAW run now, I'll let you know how it goes for flower..
Your right about the price its expensive but it makes a lot. I did 5 weeks of Veg from seed and I barely got into the 8 oz bag of grow powder I have.


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 6, 2018)

If i dont like this chem gro id try mega crop then bak to raw if i did not like it.


My main reason for the chem grow is its a nice clear solution barely any color to it .


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 6, 2018)

projectinfo said:


> I just keep cutting the roots and lollipop ping my mothers. Working great so far.


Dude you need to put that mom in a system and flower it out to see how nasty that beast gets lol

Obviously it boucned back from that trim up


----------



## projectinfo (Feb 6, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Dude you need to put that mom in a system and flower it out to see how nasty that beast gets lol
> 
> Obviously it boucned back from that trim up


OH yes all the little clones bounced back too. Hehehe


----------



## projectinfo (Feb 6, 2018)

I need to make new mothers before I flower these. And I've got 18 going into flower now. And not enough lights lol

I could convert my mother tent. Or just remove it for now. But still. The heat in that room would endup fucked when everything is on full blast.


----------



## jonsnow399 (Feb 7, 2018)

I read that pot plants prefer a taller, narrower container over a wide shallow one. What would be the minimum container height for best results?


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 7, 2018)

I once thought that as well till i ran a dwc in a 50 gal trash can to let the roots really hang.

I didnt notice any difference to the plants groing right next to them in nft tubes. So that kinda told me the results
but i did at one time think the height would help

Now im considering a big bare root nft table of sorts lol


----------



## Nugs1 (Feb 7, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> I read that pot plants prefer a taller, narrower container over a wide shallow one. What would be the minimum container height for best results?


I think this came from old thinking about the tap root, giving it a deeper place to go would help. But over the years this has been proven wrong. For example those 100 gallon fabric pots the commercial growers use in Cali aren't very deep at all. The current thought is about sqft of soil growing space. Just for reference the 100 gal pots are about 15 sq ft


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 7, 2018)

If you check out dr whitcomb he tells some cool stuff about roots systems


----------



## jonsnow399 (Feb 7, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> If you check out dr whitcomb he tells some cool stuff about roots systems


Yeh,I got into some of his stuff a few years ago, i need to look again. I got some of his small root pots, they are hard as hell to fill with all the little spaces inside., I jammed them last time and couldn't get the roots out without ripping roots.


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 8, 2018)

I havent used them yet good to know


----------



## 6ixtynin9 (Feb 9, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> If you check out dr whitcomb he tells some cool stuff about roots systems


I've been using the 4 (well more like 3.5ish) inch method for the past 15 years and it works wonders. Never knew that Whitcomb had a 4" system but I found out about the method by accident. 15 years ago, I tried to jam pack as many 2 gallon pots in to my closet, as possible. It didn't fit all the plants. I had a roll of window screens sitting around so i came up with the idea to cut it up and turn it into pots. My closet was 2.5 feet by 4 feet and with 100 clones, the required size to fit all of them were 3 - 4 inch pots. I made the window screen pots, transplanted the clones and vegged for 3 weeks in the closet. When the outdoor season came around and it came time to "unpot" and transplant the clones into a 2nd pot to harden off outside, I noticed there weren't many tap roots at all. Lots of very fine lateral/feeder roots. I will never forget, It was the most fibrous, dense and fluffy root mass i've ever produced. This was where I also accidentally discovered how to "air prune" roots as well. Of course I never knew what these methods were, nor what it was called at the time. I just knew I accidentally discovered something that works (as far as root mass). I should have developed and sold "window screen" pots a long time ago. Would have become a thousandaire now, LOL, but always thought weed would never become legal. Who would've known. Anyways, plants grew stronger, more vigorous, and ultimately, better yield. I just recently, about 5 years ago, found out about Carl Whitcomb and yes the man know his shit. I was actually really surprised to see that he uses this method. I literally still use the window screen pot even to this day, and transplant into squat pots (short and wide) when enough roots have developed. This gives more room for the lateral roots to expands.


----------



## jonsnow399 (Feb 9, 2018)

6ixtynin9 said:


> I've been using the 4 (well more like 3.5ish) inch method for the past 15 years and it works wonders. Never knew that Whitcomb had a 4" system but I found out about the method by accident. 15 years ago, I tried to jam pack as many 2 gallon pots in to my closet, as possible. It didn't fit all the plants. I had a roll of window screens sitting around so i came up with the idea to cut it up and turn it into pots. My closet was 2.5 feet by 4 feet and with 100 clones, the required size to fit all of them were 3 - 4 inch pots. I made the window screen pots, transplanted the clones and vegged for 3 weeks in the closet. When the outdoor season came around and it came time to "unpot" and transplant the clones into a 2nd pot to harden off outside, I noticed there weren't many tap roots at all. Lots of very fine lateral/feeder roots. I will never forget, It was the most fibrous, dense and fluffy root mass i've ever produced. This was where I also accidentally discovered how to "air prune" roots as well. Of course I never knew what these methods were, nor what it was called at the time. I just knew I accidentally discovered something that works (as far as root mass). I should have developed and sold "window screen" pots a long time ago. Would have become a thousandaire now, LOL, but always thought weed would never become legal. Who would've known. Anyways, plants grew stronger, more vigorous, and ultimately, better yield. I just recently, about 5 years ago, found out about Carl Whitcomb and yes the man know his shit. I was actually really surprised to see that he uses this method. I literally still use the window screen pot even to this day, and transplant into squat pots (short and wide) when enough roots have developed. This gives more room for the lateral roots to expands.
> View attachment 4087261


does whitcomb favor squat pots?


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 10, 2018)

I dont think the pot so much matters so long as you prune the first 4 inches of tap root to promote lateral branching.

I will start the next seeds in a way where i can just manually trim the root so it can go right into a system

Next time im only going to prune for about the first week or 3 

But i had a bump in the road so i dont know if my seeds slowed because im a rockwool noob

Or because of the root pruning. Im betting it was me lol


----------



## 6ixtynin9 (Feb 10, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> does whitcomb favor squat pots?


No, he mentions nothing about it. I favor squat pots. In my experience, when I grow in deep narrow pots, I get tall plants. When I switched to short wide pots, I get a shorter wider plant. I remember reading somewhere on Michigan State University's website that the way the root grows, influences the way the top grows. To an certain extent, plants mimic the shape of their pots. Makes perfect sense and i have seen this first hand. These are my DIY 8-9 gallon pots. Short squat bushy plants about 5 - 6 feet high, just how I like it. https://www.rollitup.org/t/best-soil-from-lowes.901731/page-4

This grow was done in narrow tall pots. Grew too tall (over 9 feet). I didn't like it. Post harvested, the space (soil) after 2 feet deep, had very little to no root growth. Wasted space and soil, as well as wasted water and nutrients.
 
Maybe it's just my opinion but in short wide pots, 1. Millions of roots expanding laterally = more surface coverage and sturdier plant. 2. Water/food gets distributed alot more evenly across the root mass, which mean more efficient watering/feeding. 3. More shallow so water gets to root faster (i even found myself using less water, and in turn, nutrients). 4. Soil dries out faster which means more frequent watering/feeding, which also means faster growth. I believe, in a way, this all leads back to the 4 inch method. The theory behind it, I think, is to eliminate the tap root growth and encourage lateral feeder root growth for a more efficient robust root system.


----------



## jonsnow399 (Feb 10, 2018)

6ixtynin9 said:


> No, he mentions nothing about it. I favor squat pots. In my experience, when I grow in deep narrow pots, I get tall plants. When I switched to short wide pots, I get a shorter wider plant. I remember reading somewhere on Michigan State University's website that the way the root grows, influences the way the top grows. To an certain extent, plants mimic the shape of their pots. Makes perfect sense and i have seen this first hand. These are my DIY 8-9 gallon pots. Short squat bushy plants about 5 - 6 feet high, just how I like it. https://www.rollitup.org/t/best-soil-from-lowes.901731/page-4
> 
> This grow was done in narrow tall pots. Grew too tall (over 9 feet). I didn't like it. Post harvested, the space (soil) after 2 feet deep, had very little to no root growth. Wasted space and soil, as well as wasted water and nutrients.
> View attachment 4087296 View attachment 4087297
> Maybe it's just my opinion but in short wide pots, 1. Millions of roots expanding laterally = more surface coverage and sturdier plant. 2. Water/food gets distributed alot more evenly across the root mass, which mean more efficient watering/feeding. 3. More shallow so water gets to root faster (i even found myself using less water, and in turn, nutrients). 4. Soil dries out faster which means more frequent watering/feeding, which also means faster growth. I believe, in a way, this all leads back to the 4 inch method. The theory behind it, I think, is to eliminate the tap root growth and encourage lateral feeder root growth for a more efficient robust root system.


Sounds reasonable to me. I just got some phat sacks transplanter 1 gallons they are shorter than I usually use (6" high x 7" diameter) so maybe I will see a difference.


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## Cold$moke (Feb 10, 2018)

The main thing is establishing a fiberous horizontal root system

After you get it built up then you can put It In whatever size pot you prefer


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 10, 2018)

I'm gonna make some homemade fabric pots, what would be a good landscape fabric or other fabric for them?


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## Cold$moke (Feb 10, 2018)

Anything really as long as roots can grow out of it easily


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## 3GT (Feb 10, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> I'm gonna make some homemade fabric pots, what would be a good landscape fabric or other fabric for them?


I use the supermarket polypropylene reusable bags ($0.50-$1) and cut/stitch them into fabric pots. Some have 2" of a plastic bottle bottom as a small Hempy reservoir.

Or I just use them as a 30L fabric pot as is.


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## 6ixtynin9 (Feb 10, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> I'm gonna make some homemade fabric pots, what would be a good landscape fabric or other fabric for them?


You can check these out. 3' x 50' is more than enough and can make you plenty.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Easy-Gardener-WeedBlock-3-ft-x-50-ft-Polyethylene-Landscape-Fabric-1042R/202043542


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## BigHornBuds (Feb 10, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> They are just too spendy
> As i supported a hydro store for years im trying to stop lol
> 
> Now im running the 4-20 mix from chem gro
> @ 25 bucks for 5 pounds


I’m going to be running tests of maga crop for the next few months . 1 fertilizer start to finish. Also going to be testing Remo & Vitagrow.


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 10, 2018)

6ixtynin9 said:


> You can check these out. 3' x 50' is more than enough and can make you plenty.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Easy-Gardener-WeedBlock-3-ft-x-50-ft-Polyethylene-Landscape-Fabric-1042R/202043542


Yes, that size will work great. I will cut the fabric into 1' x 3' strips and put two strips into a 12" square milk crate. No sewing and that roll would make 8 pots 12" x 12" x 10". When done with pot throw the fabric into the washer.


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## 6ixtynin9 (Feb 10, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> The main thing is establishing a fiberous horizontal root system
> 
> After you get it built up then you can put It In whatever size pot you prefer


I just took down some plants this morning. Thought I'd show you this. Roots from the 4 inch system. I just washed off the first half inch of coco and already, roots everywhere.
 

The first 4 inch
 

After washing off all the coco. Notice no long scraggly deep roots. Just a massive root ball. This is around 10 - 11 inches deep of root mass.


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## 6ixtynin9 (Feb 10, 2018)

jonsnow399 said:


> Yes, that size will work great. I will cut the fabric into 1' x 3' strips and put two strips into a 12" square milk crate. No sewing and that roll would make 8 pots 12" x 12" x 10". When done with pot throw the fabric into the washer.


I just hot glue all of my shit. Quick and simple. I usually keep my grow as clean as possible and never had to throw it in the washer. Just rinse it, soak it in a mild chlorine solution overnight, give it another good rinsing and reuse. But your idea sounds like it would work even better. Just a heads up, if you plan to throw it in the washer, make sure to check the quality of the fabric. Some are made better than others.


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## Cold$moke (Feb 10, 2018)

BigHornBuds said:


> I’m going to be running tests of maga crop for the next few months . 1 fertilizer start to finish. Also going to be testing Remo & Vitagrow.



Thats the last nutrient line i might try
Although i will say i was getting good results 
With RAW by npk but i just didnt want to spend the money on such a simple fertilizer 
Now that i know more about whats in it.

Basically ill have close to the same thing if i just add the bio stimulants to the chemical mix 

But the mega crop is interesting 
The only reason i didnt chose it over the chem gro. Is that i wanted a clear as possible solution.


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## Cold$moke (Feb 10, 2018)

@6ixtynin9 nice plants


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 10, 2018)

6ixtynin9 said:


> I just hot glue all of my shit. Quick and simple. I usually keep my grow as clean as possible and never had to throw it in the washer. Just rinse it, soak it in a mild chlorine solution overnight, give it another good rinsing and reuse. But your idea sounds like it would work even better. Just a heads up, if you plan to throw it in the washer, make sure to check the quality of the fabric. Some are made better than others.


Yeh, i could glue or sew them together but I don't think its necessary and I'll probably just soak and rinse, the strips should be super easy to clean.


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## davillains (Feb 11, 2018)

cracked open my 16oz can


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## Cold$moke (Feb 11, 2018)

davillains said:


> cracked open my 16oz can
> View attachment 4087881 View attachment 4087882 View attachment 4087883


Sweet


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## jonsnow399 (Feb 11, 2018)

Wasn't thinking about it but I have enough coco matting to put in my milk crates for a run or two, that should work even better than fabric.


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## Xs121 (Feb 20, 2018)

Air pruning work

4x4 rockwool SOG style = 2oz per plant


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## 907guy (Feb 20, 2018)

Xs121 said:


> Air pruning work
> 
> 4x4 rockwool SOG style = 2oz per plant
> 
> View attachment 4093318 View attachment 4093319


Never heard of a root cube lol


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## InTheValley (Feb 23, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Well the way i see it should be easy heres a root ball at about 4 weeks since it left the cloner i use kelp and humic thats why my roots are dark
> 
> View attachment 4072712
> 
> ...


at first glance, 


lol


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## Cold$moke (Feb 23, 2018)

Yea this experiment is still going but was kinda ill timed..

They will have another 8-10 weeks before they go into their system ha ha.

So they definitely will be air pruned to the max lol

But for the next run im only going to air prune for about 3 weeks tops.

As i found with my clones in the experiment 

The roots packed together so tightly after a few weeks of trimming them i was worried it was going to cuase an issue.

And after i stopped prunning which was keeping the plant VERY compact . She exploded with growth !

So im convinced its beneficial but i need to figure out the timing more 

I will say i will be keeping plants compact by root pruning in my veg room at the very least .

Im probably going to be doing this for a little while


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## 907guy (Feb 23, 2018)

My tap root gets stopped at just a few inches I just realized, I start seeds in 4” rockwool blocks and keep them in the tray until I get several roots out the bottom, which usually happens after the tap root gets air pruned.

From there they go to #1, then #3 and if I go bigger it’s either a #7 or #10, but by the end I can saw through the root mass and it’s usually solid throught the rockwool. I’ll do it to the next big one I take down and post pics.


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## Cold$moke (Feb 23, 2018)

Nice yea ill try to get some update shots for this poor thread


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## Xs121 (Feb 24, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Yea this experiment is still going but was kinda ill timed..
> 
> They will have another 8-10 weeks before they go into their system ha ha.
> 
> ...


All plant have this root to above ground ratio. As the plant grows, it continues to maintain this ratio.

As you pruned the root, it creates an imbalance in this ratio, signaling the plant to focus its growth energy to the roots thus the above ground part of the plant (stem, leaves, & branches) received less growth energy (compact size). This is just the plant way of trying to maintain or to bring back that ratio to normal.

The roots by this time though short, have developed multiple branches of its own (still trying to catch up with that ratio). So when you stopped pruning, all these root branches exploded in growth first thus creating an opposite imbalance ratio, this time, there are more roots than the above ground part. Needless to say, the above ground part of the plant will suddenly experience a growth spurt to catch up with the ratio.

Plants will always grow according to this ratio, any plants. This is true on the opposite side too, cut off too much roots and don't let it recover, parts of the above ground will die. Same with heavy pruning of branches, cut off too much of the above ground, parts of the root system will die too.


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## Cold$moke (Feb 24, 2018)

This is around the time i quit cutting the roots 

Dont mind the color its a mix of kelp and humc that just wont go away lol very annoying now that im in clear nutes
23 days go


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## Cold$moke (Feb 24, 2018)

This pic was 3 days ago so 20 days from the pic above


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## Cold$moke (Feb 24, 2018)

Heres the top the other three clones where smaller then the little guy in the above picture 
And this is them after a haircut .

 
And heres the clone from above 
Now the root nub is pretty big for 20 days later 
I think at least i could be.baked


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## Cold$moke (Feb 24, 2018)

The top pic makes them look small 

Thats 4 clones in a 10 gall tote


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## Cold$moke (Feb 24, 2018)

If anyones interested i put a journal up here

https://www.rollitup.org/t/cold-mokes-frost-heave.959456/


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## led1k (May 27, 2018)

3GT said:


> OK so how about a 4" fabric pot with flyscreen bottom? So the taproot comes out and gets air pruned


I thought fabric pots air pruned by design. No need for a screen.


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## OldMedUser (May 28, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> If anyones interested i put a journal up here
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/cold-mokes-frost-heave.959456/


Should have a link in your sig.


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## Cold$moke (May 28, 2018)

OldMedUser said:


> Should have a link in your sig.


One of these days ill figure that one out


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## Cold$moke (May 28, 2018)

led1k said:


> I thought fabric pots air pruned by design. No need for a screen.


Agreed even though my fabric pot exp is small

I have found lately that i can air prune seedlings quite EASY in rockwool in the little 2x2 blocks they airprun themselves

Then when i go to a 4 inch block (i dont use rockwool just playing with it) it roots up well

If you plant straight into a 4 inch block a single tap goes straight down then has to air prune before sending off secondary roots and it takes longer to fill the block with roots

So now im going to keep doing this for seed runs anyway 

Clones are even easier in an aero cloner

Just nip the roots at 4 inches long for a few days up to 2 weeks (after that i beleive it slows them like bonsai)


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## Anon618 (May 29, 2018)

If you let the outside of the pot dry out, won't the roots air prune themselves?


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## Cold$moke (May 29, 2018)

Not if its not a breathable pot

If its hard plastic roots will circle which isnt desired either

Check out dr whitcomb root vids 
As said the results are super easy to replicate just by sprouting your seedlings in a SMALL 2x2 sized rockwool block or similar

Then when you see the roots break off into multiple runners you up pot  now youll have a fibrous upper root system with multiple "tap" roots


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## OldMedUser (May 29, 2018)

I just cut the bottom of the rootball off with a bread knife and shave down the sides if there's long roots when I uppot. By the time they get into a final 4gal pot they are just a mass of fine feeder roots and never have long roots in the bottom at harvest.


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## led1k (May 29, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Agreed even though my fabric pot exp is small
> 
> I have found lately that i can air prune seedlings quite EASY in rockwool in the little 2x2 blocks they airprun themselves
> 
> ...


So if I want to have the tap root send out secondaries asap I would start in 1" cubes then into 4"?

Nipping roots (or pruning new growth) seems like it would slow down growth pretty much any time hence my obsessions with air pruning and LST


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## Cold$moke (May 30, 2018)

led1k said:


> So if I want to have the tap root send out secondaries asap I would start in 1" cubes then into 4"?
> 
> Nipping roots (or pruning new growth) seems like it would slow down growth pretty much any time hence my obsessions with air pruning and LST


Thats what im switching to i use the grodan mini blocks to start then into 4 inchers when the taps shoot out secondaries and it shouldn't skip a beat.(for seedlings i use an aero cloner for my cuts)


As for clones and the slowing of growth comment.

With my clone exp i put them in a dwc setup and
Basical would get almlst an inch of new root growth daily 

And i trimmed it back for about a month straight


From my observations it helps keep the plant compact but it doesnt stop new growth if that makes sense.

Now after about 2 weeks worth i noticed the top side of the plant was starting to slow and get pissed by that time there where tons of secondary roots with lots of fishbone roots

After that i think it hurts more then is beneficial



Im just now getting ready to chop the clones that where in the experiment and they did well for the abuse i put them through

But now im convinced that the root pruning at 4 inches to be beneficial

Cause they really get a large root system going alot faster at least it seemed like i didnt have a control plant in the system to compare to


But it wont hrt clones at all to nip their roots at 4 inchs for one week straight  its pretty cool to whatch as you snip the primary root it branches off and when you nip those they branch off as well 

almost like when topping for mutliple colas

Any questions let me know ill try to answer as best as i can.

Im pretty sure i have a bunch of photos in this thread


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## Cold$moke (May 30, 2018)

led1k said:


> So if I want to have the tap root send out secondaries asap I would start in 1" cubes then into 4"?
> 
> Nipping roots (or pruning new growth) seems like it would slow down growth pretty much any time hence my obsessions with air pruning and LST


Haha short answer yes.

And nipping roots wont hurt a clone for a week straight i hadnt tried cutting a seedlings roots



But on this last batch of seeds i had a few beans decapitate themselves and i got one to survive 

So it got "pruned" directly under the cotyledons

Its finally rerooted suprisingly


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## led1k (May 30, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Thats what im switching to i use the grodan mini blocks to start then into 4 inchers when the taps shoot out secondaries and it shouldn't skip a beat.(for seedlings i use an aero cloner for my cuts)
> 
> 
> As for clones and the slowing of growth comment.
> ...


It would be great if you could try the cloner with a snip vs no-snip. That would ease my mind and hopefully provide hard evidence that my obsession with air pruning is over blown.


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## Xs121 (May 30, 2018)

I grow in

  

4x4 rockwool


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## Cold$moke (May 30, 2018)

Xs121 said:


> I grow in
> 
> View attachment 4143711 View attachment 4143712
> 
> 4x4 rockwool


I just planted about 5 of those


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## Cold$moke (May 30, 2018)

led1k said:


> It would be great if you could try the cloner with a snip vs no-snip. That would ease my mind and hopefully provide hard evidence that my obsession with air pruning is over blown.


I can almost guarantee that snipping the roots will produce more roots .....

And i got my hands full atm with some seed runs

But when i get some clones going again here soon ill try and do that for ya


If not you can and post it here


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## rob333 (May 31, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Hey all ,
> After a little research I've decided to try air pruning roots of seedlings to hopefully encourage faster root growth..
> 
> If your interested look up DR. Whitcomb air pruning roots .
> ...


use to no this old girl years ago that would prune the roots off the dwc and toss it thru a salad i never seen any ill effects of her doing this nore i seen any positive


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## Cold$moke (May 31, 2018)

Haha


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## InTheValley (Jun 4, 2018)

man, i use fab pots, i dont like the mold buildup on them. salt, whatever, dont like it.. going back to plastic 1 gallons and drilling a thousand holes in them, there, now they can breathe, lol..

whats the trick with the fab pots anyways? Spray them down everyday on the outside, to attract roots?


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## Cold$moke (Jun 4, 2018)

I only ever used fab pots a few times 


As long as your media is wet roots should grow till it hits the dry bag then they will air prune ...at least in theory..

Your probably just seeing salt build up 

But i agree its one of the few things im finding out i dont like in rockwool is algae or mold what ever it is 

But i only use the rockwool for seedlings
As i hate buying media and after i find the cuts i want to keep i switch to hydro of some type


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## Thegermling (Jun 25, 2018)

I tried grow pot cheaply's 4 inch method. Here are the results.
  Having first hand experience, i'm a believer.


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## Cold$moke (Jun 28, 2018)

Thegermling said:


> I tried grow pot cheaply's 4 inch method. Here are the results.
> View attachment 4156009 View attachment 4156010 Having first hand experience, i'm a believer.


Nice one bud

I am a convert too now to dr. Whitcombs method


Doing it in hydro with clones works too 

Just nip the roots for 1 week after they hit 4 inch long roots... just eyeball 4inches and cut with clean scissors every day 

Dont go for more then 3 weeks or growth starts to slow (on the top side)


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## Cold$moke (Jun 28, 2018)

Also now with seedlings


I find if you plant in a 2 inch cube first till roots show at the bottom and let them go for a day or two and the roots will split up as well.


The experiment definitely showed that the roots behave a lot like the topside of the plant

If you cut them they will make 2 from the one cut 
Just like topping


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## whytewidow (Dec 3, 2018)

So I read through all 9 pages. The first few pages the guy saying it wont increase yield is retarded. Bigger root system equals bigger fruits. Period. As far as doing the air pruning to clones in those upside down V pots. Seems kindve useless as clones dont have taproots. But using clones in the 4inch cubes to get a nice thick knuckle inside the cube. But after you transplant to a bigger pot or table whichever I would let it veg to let the roots expand out into your media then flip. And I think 4inches is the magic number. If you run seedlings in a solo cup like most people a cup inside a cup. With holes poked in the bottom of the cup for drainage. And put the cup inside of another cup. The tap root will jus keep growing and circling inside the the outside cup. It doesnt air prune it really. But I've found using single cups with tons of holes drilled in the bottom and sides of the first two inches of the bottom of the cup and set the single cup in a tray. The taproot stops growing length wise. And it starts shooting more side(lateral root) growth. And btw a solo cup is 4 1/2" deep. But back to my cup in a cup. If you let it get a good root system in the cup. And pull the dirt and plant out and wash off all the dirt. There is a gap on the taproot. Between the first set of lateral growth roots and the next set of roots. I jus drew a retard cheap paint pic to show what i mean. The yellow line is the soil line. The first red line is the first set of lateral roots. Then theres a gap between it and the next set of lateral roots. The second red line. I think the air pruning ig done right. Does away with that gap between the lateral roots. I mean theres still a gap. But not quite as big. But anyway, if you air prune making the first sets of lateral roots closer together also air pruning lateral roots. Makes more root growth. Get your root system nice n thick inside whatever your using. Then transplant to a big pot say 5gal soft sided pot that air prunes. Let it veg and fill that pot. Then flip to flower. Makes for big trees. I think using 6 inch blocks will work too. But takes longer to fill out the block. But if you have say 6 sets of lateral root growth in the first part of the plants life. It makes for a healthier plant. Which in turn, INCREASES YIELD. And also kindve makes the plant grow faster(more vigorous) increasing root zone production.


Sry for the shotty pic. As I was in hurry.


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## Thegermling (Dec 3, 2018)

whytewidow said:


> So I read through all 9 pages. The first few pages the guy saying it wont increase yield is retarded. Bigger root system equals bigger fruits. Period. As far as doing the air pruning to clones in those upside down V pots. Seems kindve useless as clones dont have taproots. But using clones in the 4inch cubes to get a nice thick knuckle inside the cube. But after you transplant to a bigger pot or table whichever I would let it veg to let the roots expand out into your media then flip. And I think 4inches is the magic number. If you run seedlings in a solo cup like most people a cup inside a cup. With holes poked in the bottom of the cup for drainage. And put the cup inside of another cup. The tap root will jus keep growing and circling inside the the outside cup. It doesnt air prune it really. But I've found using single cups with tons of holes drilled in the bottom and sides of the first two inches of the bottom of the cup and set the single cup in a tray. The taproot stops growing length wise. And it starts shooting more side(lateral root) growth. And btw a solo cup is 4 1/2" deep. But back to my cup in a cup. If you let it get a good root system in the cup. And pull the dirt and plant out and wash off all the dirt. There is a gap on the taproot. Between the first set of lateral growth roots and the next set of roots. I jus drew a retard cheap paint pic to show what i mean. The yellow line is the soil line. The first red line is the first set of lateral roots. Then theres a gap between it and the next set of lateral roots. The second red line. I think the air pruning ig done right. Does away with that gap between the lateral roots. I mean theres still a gap. But not quite as big. But anyway, if you air prune making the first sets of lateral roots closer together also air pruning lateral roots. Makes more root growth. Get your root system nice n thick inside whatever your using. Then transplant to a big pot say 5gal soft sided pot that air prunes. Let it veg and fill that pot. Then flip to flower. Makes for big trees. I think using 6 inch blocks will work too. But takes longer to fill out the block. But if you have say 6 sets of lateral root growth in the first part of the plants life. It makes for a healthier plant. Which in turn, INCREASES YIELD. And also kindve makes the plant grow faster(more vigorous) increasing root zone production.
> 
> 
> Sry for the shotty pic. As I was in hurry.
> ...


I might try that with the solo cups. Check out these roots I did the 4 inch rockwool with some autos I grew...
 You can see the 4 inch rockwool. Wait till you see the other side...
 Other pics of the results of this method...


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## whytewidow (Dec 3, 2018)

Thegermling said:


> I might try that with the solo cups. Check out these roots I did the 4 inch rockwool with some autos I grew...
> View attachment 4243003 You can see the 4 inch rockwool. Wait till you see the other side...
> View attachment 4243004 Other pics of the results of this method...
> View attachment 4243006 View attachment 4243007



Damn that's huge. Very nice.....


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