# Is changing res water in dwc really necessary?



## BadlyDrawnBoy (Jul 24, 2017)

Theoretically, if you're keeping the water clean and roots healthy, couldn't you just keep adding fresh water to the res? ...along with nutes and (hydroguard) ... maintaining desired ph and ppm. 

For how much the plants drink later in their lifespan, it seems to me the water would be completely, newly cycled every week or multiple times a week anyway, just by adding so much fresh water to top off the res.

This is my first grow, and I'm just theorizing and planning for the best and easiest path. The plants seem so happy in the water they're in, and the water has no smell and the roots look fantastic. Seems I could just keep topping off and adding nutes to maintain the ppm range I'm going for. 

Has anyone had success doing it this way?


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## FennarioMike (Jul 24, 2017)

Eventually you should. I have run a full 4 week veg cycle without changing the nutes. I actually compared 4 buckets with Hydroguard and 4 with UC Roots and let the rez temps stay in the high 80's - low 70's and didn't change the rez once. I topped them with RO or fresh nutes depending on their uptake. They all grew great. I'll always do it this way from now on.

But that's about the duration that I myself would go before a full changeout. The plants aren't going to take up all the nutes together at the same time. It might take up one faster than another, or one not so much at all. Eventually your rez can become completely chemically unbalanced and nutes getting locked out even though your pH and PPM look ok. Eventually you want to flush out that spent shit and start over.


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## BadlyDrawnBoy (Jul 24, 2017)

That makes sense. My plants are only a bit over 3 weeks, so they aren't taking in much nutrition yet. I've changed the res once and twice on the other, but probably could have just gone the whole first month without a full res change. The ppms are only slowly dropping, so I haven't felt like i needed to add more nutes yet. But I understand about the plant using some nutrition more than others and eventually the res will have too much of something and a lot less of another. Makes sense. 

I see posts where people say their dwc is empty when they check on it because the plants drank so much. That is mainly what got me questioning the necessity for full res change, since if the plant takes all the water in a few days, there wouldn't be any water left to change out anyway, and what you add to it would be a fresh res change. But in early veg stages, that's not happening yet obviously.


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## FennarioMike (Jul 24, 2017)

Yeah I can't speak to that that so much. I veg in 5 gallon buckets but move them to a big RDWC system for flowering. In peak mine probably drink about 6 or 7 gallons a week each. So much easier changing 1 rez than multiple buckets...


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## BadlyDrawnBoy (Jul 24, 2017)

I'm just looking to get a modest yield, probably won't be doing anything more than single pot hydro or soil. I'd like to try soil next, just to compare. Seems it may be a bit cheaper overall doing soil. Loving the way the hydro is working though, seeing the white roots expanding into open water and the plant growing happy above. But I'm the type who prefers a set it and leave it type approach, so soil is probably forthcoming. Nice for a first grow to be more involved with the plant and tending to it, I do enjoy it.


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## Airwalker16 (Jul 24, 2017)

Only time I do it is going from veg to flower. you're correct in saying they drink so freaking much that you need to replace so often there's almost No reason to switch.


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## BadlyDrawnBoy (Jul 25, 2017)

Airwalker16 said:


> Only time I do it is going from veg to flower. you're correct in saying they drink so freaking much that you need to replace so often there's almost No reason to switch.


How long do you veg for? I was planning on beginning flower when they're a bit less than a foot. I'd like to keep them on the smaller size. One is 6 inches already now


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## PetFlora (Jul 25, 2017)

Depends on ho many plants your rez is feeding and how big they are


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## BlueBlazer00 (Aug 5, 2017)

BadlyDrawnBoy said:


> How long do you veg for? I was planning on beginning flower when they're a bit less than a foot. I'd like to keep them on the smaller size. One is 6 inches already now


Depending on how big your grow space is , i veg d mine for about 6 weeks before i switched to flower to fill a 4x4 grow space .


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## BionicΩChronic (Aug 11, 2017)

I do a rez change bout every 4 weeks. And when switching to flower. I run 3 in a 18gal tote with copious amounts of great white


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

BadlyDrawnBoy said:


> Theoretically, if you're keeping the water clean and roots healthy, couldn't you just keep adding fresh water to the res? ...along with nutes and (hydroguard) ... maintaining desired ph and ppm.
> 
> For how much the plants drink later in their lifespan, it seems to me the water would be completely, newly cycled every week or multiple times a week anyway, just by adding so much fresh water to top off the res.
> 
> ...


Lots of variables

How much water in your system? Larger volumes of water will last longer
Water temps - higher temps can create root root and slime
Exposure to light - light will encourage microbes to grow, creating algae and slime
I'm going to have around 80-gallons in my 4 plant RDWC. I'm going to see how the water's doing when I flip them. I'd like to go the whole grow without flushing, but I might flush when I flip.

More water has a lot of benefits

Stays fresh longer
More pH/nutrient buffer
Helps keep water temps down


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## Twerkle (Aug 16, 2017)

Not changing your water weekly or every 5 days in DWC is like buying a Ferrari and never going over 5mph!


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2017)

Twerkle said:


> Not changing your water weekly or every 5 days in DWC is like buying a Ferrari and never going over 5mph!


I'm actually going to flush every other week. I've got a lot of water (50 - 60 gallons) and only 4 plants. I'll play it by ear.


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## Twerkle (Aug 16, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'm actually going to flush every other week. I've got a lot of water (50 - 60 gallons) and only 4 plants. I'll play it by ear.


Trust me i know the pain of changing i got 120gallon rez of RO so i use between 300 to 400 gallons of prefiltered water a week. but water is cheap and why decrease your yield to penny pinch. 

the reason we grow dwc is because we get to submerge the plant in the perfect mixture of nutes at all times. if you are not changing regularly or if you are only topping of with new nutes and water you have no idea of the contents of the rez anymore. at that point might as well do soil.


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## Billy Liar (Aug 18, 2017)

It is possible to maintain a nutrient solution for the life of the plant, but it needs a carefully balanced nutrient profile for the top off water.

Bruce Bugbee from Utah University has developed it for growing tomatoes in recirculating hydroponics..

Peace
BL


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## OldMedUser (Aug 18, 2017)

I've done DWC for 16 years and have tried changing regularly and not changing for the whole grow. I've run side-by-side tubs changing one a few times and not changing the other once with no difference in results or yields. I've settled on changing once after the stretch then just take out some of the nutes and replace with RO water to lower the ppm during later flower.

There is certainly no reason to change weekly when the plants are small and barely eating anything. You are just wasting perfectly good nutes and making more trips to the hydro store to make them richer.

This whole "gonna get different nutes off balance" is just malarkey. Never seen any deficiencies even when the nutes never got changed once. Not a great plan for a brand new grower but once you can read your plants fairly well it's easy-peasy.

I use the pH Perfect nutes and long ago retired my pH pen. I grow in single RubberMaid tubs so just have to top up, check ppm and boost nutes as needed to maintain the ppm level I want every 3 days with big plants.

Now if DWC would just cut flowering time in half like it does with veg times I'd have the best of all possible worlds.


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## Billy Liar (Aug 19, 2017)

Here's a table demonstrating the rates of removal of different elements from a recirculating solution. 

 

Nutrients brands with a high Calcium content for example will cause issues as it accumulates in the solution due to it's slow removal.

Peace
BL


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## BadlyDrawnBoy (Aug 19, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I've done DWC for 16 years and have tried changing regularly and not changing for the whole grow. I've run side-by-side tubs changing one a few times and not changing the other once with no difference in results or yields.
> 
> This whole "gonna get different nutes off balance" is just malarkey. Never seen any deficiencies even when the nutes never got changed once.


That's been the main reason I have kept up with res changes. Good to know there is more leniency than I thought


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## Billy Liar (Aug 19, 2017)

Strange, I just got a notification saying my post had been quoted, when it hadn't....

@OldMedUser which nutrient brands/products have you used for your runs with no nutrient changes?

Peace
BL


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## chasingwaterfalls (Aug 19, 2017)

In my albeit limited number of dwc grows (4 now..), I've had different experiences - I think as long as you're checking the water regularly and change the res before any problem gets out of hand, you don't really need to follow a strict schedule

I've been using Lucas with GH in dwc- first with the flora series (micro+bloom) and now I'm trying the flora nova bloom for the first time.

With the flora series, I was starting to see issues with what looked like nute lockout about 2-3 weeks in. This couldve been my fault, too, from just not dialing it in - but I think I did.

With the flora nova bloom, I haven't changed out the res fully once- all I've done is a half change. My plan was to go all the way to harvest without changing the res if it can make it


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## DrGhard (Aug 19, 2017)

yes you definitely can. it is always recommended though to do at least one full ress change between veg and flowering.


the things you need to take care if you are planning not to change res are:

-res temperature: when your plants get bigger some small pieces of roots fall off into the res. this can lead ot bacteria growing in the ress, especially with temps above 20C (68F).

-overall res water quality. indipendently of the above, bacteria can develop over time in the res. always check for gunk or bad smells. if it happens you are better off changing the ress and cleaning up the pot (with H2O2 for inntance). you can also fix microbial growth in the res by pouring in H2O2, but only if you catch it at the earliest stages.

- don't use beneficials. while their utility in DWC is questionable already, keeping them in a ress that you are not intending to change will lead to a lot of gunk buildup. while in theory those are not harmful micro-organisms, they do consume oxygen and nutrients in the ress iff things get out of control.

- after harvest, you gotta clean pot and airstone very well because you gonna have a lot of salt buildups in both, if you do never change the ress over the growth cycle.


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## chasingwaterfalls (Aug 19, 2017)

Just sharing that anything is possible  :

This isn't a suggestion by any means haha, but even with a near-fatal issue, i still didn't do a full res change. Ended up losing half of one plant, but all has been well.

Lowered res temps and used hygrozyme- I know using enzymes are arguable, but worked for me!

( I had an issue with some pathogen - my res was smelling like eggs for a couple days about 30 days into veg, but I got ahead of it

Had to cut about half of one plant where it was wilting, but plants are thriving now )


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## chasingwaterfalls (Aug 19, 2017)

I think the full res change between veg and flower is required if you're using different nutes once flowering begins? Haven't seen an issue with Lucas formula so far, so I guess that makes a difference

I guess I'd do the res change when swapping nutes, at the end of the flowering stretch


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## BadlyDrawnBoy (Aug 19, 2017)

DrGhard said:


> -res temperature: when your plants get bigger some small pieces of roots fall off into the res. this can lead ot bacteria growing in the ress, especially with temps above 20C (68F).
> 
> - clean pot and airstone very well


this is definitely something to consider. each time ive changed the res so far, ive seen some loose roots floating around. nothing substantial, just a few...but like you said, i could see them decomposing and causing issues. 

and after 2 weeks, for me, the top of the airstone tubes that aren't underwater begin to grow some funky looking stuff on them. the airstones feel a bit slimey too. i could just be imagining it, but id rather be safe than sorry and clean them several times during the grow. the way the roots grow around the air tubes makes it really hard to get them out of the res. those roots are amazing!


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## Billy Liar (Aug 20, 2017)

I found the Bruce Bugbee document I referred to earlier in the thread if anyone wants a read.

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar_url?url=https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Bruce_Bugbee/publication/284231562_Nutrient_management_in_recirculating_hydroponic_culture/links/576b254408aef2a864d20f09.pdf&hl=en&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm3Ve-cCCwB76mPCRB4u_QT6mf6cVA&nossl=1&oi=scholarr&ved=0ahUKEwi9x_2Z2-XVAhVI0hoKHRA0CmwQgAMILCgAMAA

I've tried the veg top off profile and it seemed like normal healthy growth.

Peace
BL


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## OldMedUser (Aug 21, 2017)

Billy Liar said:


> Here's a table demonstrating the rates of removal of different elements from a recirculating solution.
> 
> View attachment 3997195
> 
> ...


So that's why I have never seen Ca deficiencies ever in DWC. Even 25 years ago when I only had a few tubs under my belt no problems like that ever came up. I did on occasion see Mg def and used to always dose lightly with Epsom salts to fix it. Even an old fart like me can learn something new every day.  Thanks.



Billy Liar said:


> @OldMedUser which nutrient brands/products have you used for your runs with no nutrient changes?


As mentioned above I use AN pH Perfect nutes and GOOD RO water. Must be below 20ppm in my books to rate as great. 20-50 decent and I just won't pay for anything over 50. Looking to get my own unit. So check what you get from the store or your machine to keep it low. Some guys have tap that goes up or over 400 and those ppms get left behind each time you add more crappy water until you're at 2000ppm and only 20 ppm is nutes. That's an exaggeration but that's what's going on when you use hard water to grow your plants. Builds up in plants grown in pots too and causes toxic salts buildup just like it does in hydro. If you must use hard water for whatever reason then keep track of how much water you are adding back in your top ups and change the nutes each time you've added back as much water as your rez holds. That's for hard water like 400-500 ppm. If your tap is around 200-300 then you could go 1 1/2 and if better than that then twice as much before a nute change before salts accumulation will start causing problems like lockouts and too high pH that just won't come down.

I use nothing but RO in my potted plants too and don't worry about runoff and never flush but just feed RO the last 2 or 3 weeks so they use up what's left.



chasingwaterfalls said:


> In my albeit limited number of dwc grows (4 now..), I've had different experiences - I think as long as you're checking the water regularly and change the res before any problem gets out of hand, you don't really need to follow a strict schedule
> 
> I've been using Lucas with GH in dwc- first with the flora series (micro+bloom) and now I'm trying the flora nova bloom for the first time.
> 
> ...


After 4 you're starting to get the hang of it. Feed the plants when they tell you they want more. If you're still a little nervous that you might wake up to a disaster then change more often but for sure anyone should be able to do the first 4 weeks from clone and not change. Just add small amounts of nutes to bump the ppm up as the plants get bigger and are eating more and believe me it will work just fine.

I gotta say I would ditch the GH stuff for a couple big reasons. 1) They have always been hypocrites claiming they make nutes for flowers and veggies only and bashing the hell out of AN making all sorts of outrageous claims about AN and frankly paying posters, (shills), to respond to every positive AN post with lies and false news. Remind you of anyone like say . . . The freaking orangutan running the US! lol

2) They were bought out by Scott's a couple years back. The producers of fine pot growing products like Miracle-Gro who are in bed with Mon$anto who has now merged with Bayer who's roots are deep in Hitler's Germany. They made the gas used to kill a few million Jews, Gays and anyone they didn't like.

3) They use the cheapest possible ingredients with shitty quality control so a fresh bottle of their 3-part may be twice as strong or twice as weak as the last one. Their higher end nutes are a bit better but look at who makes them and ask yourself if you want to give your money to Nazi bastards or a nice Canadian/US company like AN. Botanicare and Gavita got bought up by Scott's/Mon$atan/Bayer around the same time as GH. Coming to a walmart near you soon as pot is legal federally in the US!

I won't buy a lot of companies stuff because of their business practices like Coca-Cola, Heinz, McDonalds etc etc etc. I may not have much but I do have principles and a conscience.

If anyone wants links to some of my past grows including one where I grew two tubs side-by-side and never changed one just ask and I'll PM them to you so you can see what I'm talking about. They are on another site so I don't want t opost them here. I'm out of town in Kelowna now and for the next 3 weeks so only get on when I'm not dealing with family stuff so might take a day or two. Niece's wedding next Sat and my mom's 90th b-day the Sat after that. 

Driving into the valley on this week to attend my #2 son's court appearance for theft under $5000 so may be wishing him well in his year long stay in the Grey-bar hotel. Not his first offense but what's a tweaker to do eh. 

Good luck and good growing you guys!


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## OldMedUser (Aug 21, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Even 25 years ago when I only had a few tubs under my belt no problems like that ever came up.


That should of been 15 years. My 2nd year doing DWC. I can't get EDIT to work.


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## CannaBruh (Aug 22, 2017)

started using bleach, stopped changing res


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## OldMedUser (Aug 22, 2017)

CannaBruh said:


> started using bleach, stopped changing res


Bleach! Really! I've read lots of threads where guys are using pool shock and things like that to run sterile hydro but I sure as hell wouldn't use it. I used to use food grade peroxide to run clean DWC tubs but made a DIY chiller from a water cooler and nothing but nutes since. No beneficial bacteria crap either. In the long run it won't work either. 50 DWC tubs and 200+ plants under my belt now so I have an idea what works. First tub in 2001.

I'm hot to do DWC with AN's new certified organic hydro nutes and while here in BC will be looking to pick some up. Iguana Juice for the nutes, Big Bud, Bud Candy and Ancient Earth fulvic acid stuff. All certified by California to be organic derived.


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## CannaBruh (Aug 22, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Bleach! Really! I've read lots of threads where guys are using pool shock and things like that to run sterile hydro but I sure as hell wouldn't use it. I used to use food grade peroxide to run clean DWC tubs but made a DIY chiller from a water cooler and nothing but nutes since. No beneficial bacteria crap either. In the long run it won't work either. 50 DWC tubs and 200+ plants under my belt now so I have an idea what works. First tub in 2001.
> 
> I'm hot to do DWC with AN's new certified organic hydro nutes and while here in BC will be looking to pick some up. Iguana Juice for the nutes, Big Bud, Bud Candy and Ancient Earth fulvic acid stuff. All certified by California to be organic derived.


DWC since 2004 or 2005, I had never ran sterile until this year. I saw a guy that goes by Medgrower1 on youtube put this stuff in his fancy little cloner called "UC roots" his cuttings were exploding with roots so I got me a few of those cloners (oxycloner) and after a few clone runs I started putting it in my veg and flower girls. No gunk even in warm temps, win.

I found that it's simple enough to make, but a lot simpler to buy, 3ml/gal for plants with roots, up to 10/gal in the cloner, I've never seen roots like this, ever and my reservoirs have never ever ever been cleaner come harvest.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 22, 2017)

Chiller for the win in a flooded system. And for the $10 it cost to change the res periodically I do it. When ph starts to fall I change, that can take anywhere from 14 to 5 days. Yes I use well water so that may effect stability also.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 22, 2017)

Holy crap! I just priced ancient earth....wow! It's $45 a litre in Amazon CA. I can see why you never dump a res lol.


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## JSB99 (Aug 22, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> If anyone wants links to some of my past grows including one where I grew two tubs side-by-side and never changed one just ask and I'll PM them to you so you can see what I'm talking about.


I'd like to check out the pics! I'd like to go a little ways between res changes. My roots are white, water's constantly cold (68-70), got the roots in the dark, etc...

I haven't noticed any major drops in nutes or pH yet.

I hate the thought of dumping unused nutes.


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## BionicΩChronic (Aug 22, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'd like to check out the pics! I'd like to go a little ways between res changes. My roots are white, water's constantly cold (68-70), got the roots in the dark, etc...
> 
> I haven't noticed any major drops in nutes or pH yet.
> 
> I hate the thought of dumping unused nutes.


Don't dump just change every 4 weeks. Also young plants or seedlings (with roots in water) can actually be damaged by a rez change


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## Jimdamick (Aug 22, 2017)

BadlyDrawnBoy said:


> I'm just looking to get a modest yield, probably won't be doing anything more than single pot hydro or soil. I'd like to try soil next, just to compare. Seems it may be a bit cheaper overall doing soil. Loving the way the hydro is working though, seeing the white roots expanding into open water and the plant growing happy above. But I'm the type who prefers a set it and leave it type approach, so soil is probably forthcoming. Nice for a first grow to be more involved with the plant and tending to it, I do enjoy it.


Did soil = ok for indoor but not great (watering all the time/fungus gnats)
Went hydro indoor= great results (able to adjust your nutes/PH immediately)
Fuck soil for indoor, that's my opinion, so don't change, you'll be glad you didn't.


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## BadlyDrawnBoy (Aug 22, 2017)

Jimdamick said:


> Did soil = ok for indoor but not great (watering all the time/fungus gnats)
> Went hydro indoor= great results (able to adjust your nutes/PH immediately)
> Fuck soil for indoor, that's my opinion, so don't change, you'll be glad you didn't.


Yeah I was feeling a bit intimidated and dissuaded in the beginning of the grow, as i was still figuring things out and needing to tweak certain elements in the hydro grow. but i'm at a different place now and seeing clearly the benefits of hydro overall. if anything, i'll be progressing into more advanced hydro systems/setups, rather than switching to soil.


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## rkymtnman (Aug 22, 2017)

BadlyDrawnBoy said:


> i'll be progressing into more advanced hydro systems/setups, rather than switching to soil.


that's the spirit! 

hydro is for growing, dirt is for racing.


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## Airwalker16 (Aug 22, 2017)

Fuckin beautiful response 


OldMedUser said:


> I've done DWC for 16 years and have tried changing regularly and not changing for the whole grow. I've run side-by-side tubs changing one a few times and not changing the other once with no difference in results or yields. I've settled on changing once after the stretch then just take out some of the nutes and replace with RO water to lower the ppm during later flower.
> 
> There is certainly no reason to change weekly when the plants are small and barely eating anything. You are just wasting perfectly good nutes and making more trips to the hydro store to make them richer.
> 
> ...


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## OldMedUser (Aug 24, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'd like to check out the pics! I'd like to go a little ways between res changes. My roots are white, water's constantly cold (68-70), got the roots in the dark, etc...
> 
> I haven't noticed any major drops in nutes or pH yet.
> 
> I hate the thought of dumping unused nutes.


Unfortunately the links to my past journals are home on my desktop and I'm here for 10 more days at least. Remind me.

I certainly wouldn't toss out the nutes if everything is ship-shape otherwise. Just add some more in the proper ratios to raise the ppm when they eat some and to bump it up to a higher level when they are ready for more. After I crop the water is still clear and nutes a nice light tan colour. The The Big Bud stains them a bit.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 24, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Holy crap! I just priced ancient earth....wow! It's $45 a litre in Amazon CA. I can see why you never dump a res lol.


Gabbed with Dallas, the lady that owns the hydro store I go to in Kelowna, for about an hour yesterday and she tried to order me some of the new organic nutes like the Ancient Earth but not in Canada eh. Her supplier says AN may not even bother getting them registered for sale in Canada as the market isn't big enough to justify jumping thru the regulatory hoops to get it here. If so I'll be looking for a new line of nutes in a year when I run out of these.

She's getting me in a 500ml jug of Bud Factor X so I can run a side-by-side and see if it's worth using regular. Should be here Sat. Might go seed shopping tomorrow at Hemp City but if not then next week some time.

Big f'n forest fire started this aft that's close enough to be a threat. Hope we don't have to bug out.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 24, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Chiller for the win in a flooded system. And for the $10 it cost to change the res periodically I do it. When ph starts to fall I change, that can take anywhere from 14 to 5 days. Yes I use well water so that may effect stability also.


I got a DIY chiller good for two tubs at least. Good enough for $14. 

I use RO water only and you can bet your well water does stuff to affect the stability depending on what's in it. Could be good or bad. Has it ever been analyzed? 

My pH always used to rise over 3 days then I'd add 4 or 5 drops of concentrated sulfuric acid when I topped up. Go from 6.3ish to 5.4ish. That's actually good for them I've read all over but they don't get that with the pH Perfect and they grow fine.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 24, 2017)

chasingwaterfalls said:


> I think the full res change between veg and flower is required if you're using different nutes once flowering begins? Haven't seen an issue with Lucas formula so far, so I guess that makes a difference
> 
> I guess I'd do the res change when swapping nutes, at the end of the flowering stretch


That's when I generally do one. A week before flipping I'll give them 1-1-2, GMB and a half dose of Big Bud to "prime the pump". A week after the flip there are nice little buds forming and they seem to really plump up fast. Looking forward to getting some tubs going again. Tired of playing in the dirt.


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## Airwalker16 (Aug 25, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I got a DIY chiller good for two tubs at least. Good enough for $14.
> 
> I use RO water only and you can bet your well water does stuff to affect the stability depending on what's in it. Could be good or bad. Has it ever been analyzed?
> 
> My pH always used to rise over 3 days then I'd add 4 or 5 drops of concentrated sulfuric acid when I topped up. Go from 6.3ish to 5.4ish. That's actually good for them I've read all over but they don't get that with the pH Perfect and they grow fine.


Can you elaborate on this DIY chiller ?


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## Budley Doright (Aug 25, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Gabbed with Dallas, the lady that owns the hydro store I go to in Kelowna, for about an hour yesterday and she tried to order me some of the new organic nutes like the Ancient Earth but not in Canada eh. Her supplier says AN may not even bother getting them registered for sale in Canada as the market isn't big enough to justify jumping thru the regulatory hoops to get it here. If so I'll be looking for a new line of nutes in a year when I run out of these.
> 
> She's getting me in a 500ml jug of Bud Factor X so I can run a side-by-side and see if it's worth using regular. Should be here Sat. Might go seed shopping tomorrow at Hemp City but if not then next week some time.
> 
> Big f'n forest fire started this aft that's close enough to be a threat. Hope we don't have to bug out.


Ya I've been watching the shit show out there...bad! I spent 10 days last spring in the valley with myself driving around fishing in most of the rives awesome place! I saw the AE on amazon so the shipping may be rising the cost a bit lol.


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## JSB99 (Aug 25, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> that's the spirit!
> 
> hydro is for growing, dirt is for racing.


Personally, hydro has always been easier for me. I started off with hydro and got my hands pretty wet putting different hydro/aero grows together, and always had great results. Not so much with soil.


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## JSB99 (Aug 25, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Unfortunately the links to my past journals are home on my desktop and I'm here for 10 more days at least. Remind me.


You've got to get a remote app or cloud storage so you can access your computer/files from anywhere.

I use Team Viewer.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 25, 2017)

Airwalker16 said:


> Can you elaborate on this DIY chiller ?


It's just a water cooler that I took the guts out of the tank and I have a fountain pump in the tub that circulates the nutes up thru a coil of 3/8" tubing in that tank then back to the tub. I got the cooler for free and had the tubing already so it just cost me $14 for the little pump. I have a timer on the cooler so it doesn't get too cool and had to fiddle around with timing to get it right but it keeps the tub at 65F and can easily do another tub at least or a rez. I filled the cooler tank with antifreeze as water would actually freeze in there. 

I'm out of town so can't put up any pics but I may have in my journal.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 25, 2017)

I d


JSB99 said:


> You've got to get a remote app or cloud storage so you can access your computer/files from anywhere.
> 
> I use Team Viewer.


I don't want my illegal activities anywhere they can be accessed by who knows who.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 25, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Ya I've been watching the shit show out there...bad! I spent 10 days last spring in the valley with myself driving around fishing in most of the rives awesome place! I saw the AE on amazon so the shipping may be rising the cost a bit lol.


My grandad used to take me fishing in the Chilliwack river when I was about 3 - 8 when he passed. I know the valley and all the hidden hot spots on both sides of the Fraser river. Mid Oct to April was my fishing season for salmon and steelhead tho lots of trout the rest of the year. 50lb Chinook on the fly rod in the upper Chilliwack is hella fun!


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## Budley Doright (Aug 25, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> It's just a water cooler that I took the guts out of the tank and I have a fountain pump in the tub that circulates the nutes up thru a coil of 3/8" tubing in that tank then back to the tub. I got the cooler for free and had the tubing already so it just cost me $14 for the little pump. I have a timer on the cooler so it doesn't get too cool and had to fiddle around with timing to get it right but it keeps the tub at 65F and can easily do another tub at least or a rez. I filled the cooler tank with antifreeze as water would actually freeze in there.
> 
> I'm out of town so can't put up any pics but I may have in my journal.


Was there not a temp probe to control water temp originally? You can buy a dial temp probe for 20 bucks that you wire into power cord in series, probably work better.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 25, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> My grandad used to take me fishing in the Chilliwack river when I was about 3 - 8 when he passed. I know the valley and all the hidden hot spots on both sides of the Fraser river. Mid Oct to April was my fishing season for salmon and steelhead tho lots of trout the rest of the year. 50lb Chinook on the fly rod in the upper Chilliwack is hella fun!


Not to take away from post but yup, love my salmon fishing lol. Guided for 10 years until I sold my last big boat (pictured). Spent lots of time on the island and Alaska .


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## OldMedUser (Aug 25, 2017)

Geez. I would have loved a life like that. I took fisheries 101 as a post graduate course on my last term getting my chem diploma kind of hoping to get work with the DFO but the wife left me two young boys and shit went sideways. Got a cousin in Campbell River and would love to get over there to hang out. Almost moved there but ended up in Bumf**k, AB instead. What a waste.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 25, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Was there not a temp probe to control water temp originally? You can buy a dial temp probe for 20 bucks that you wire into power cord in series, probably work better.


I'll have to check that out thanks. I'm planning to use air cooling for the 4 tub setup I want to build when I get back home. Just channel my intake air to flow around the bases of the tubs that will be on wheeled dollies before it mixes with the room air. The chiller I will use on a couple tubs in the adjoining room that doesn't have that capability.

I do have it pretty stable once it's going and never had to mess with the timer to keep an even temp.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 25, 2017)

This is what I was thinking but if it's stable then, as they say "don't fix what ain't broken" lol. And ya not much of a fan of Alberta, it's fucking cold lol.

Edit: oh right it's a dry cold. What the fuck, it's still cold lol


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## OldMedUser (Aug 25, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Edit: oh right it's a dry cold. What the fuck, it's still cold lol


And when it ain't cold the mosquitoes and black flies are chasing you inside.


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## vorus (Dec 26, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I've done DWC for 16 years and have tried changing regularly and not changing for the whole grow. I've run side-by-side tubs changing one a few times and not changing the other once with no difference in results or yields. I've settled on changing once after the stretch then just take out some of the nutes and replace with RO water to lower the ppm during later flower.
> 
> There is certainly no reason to change weekly when the plants are small and barely eating anything. You are just wasting perfectly good nutes and making more trips to the hydro store to make them richer.
> 
> ...


I am currently planning on starting a 6 plant rdwc growth and I'll run some many ph perfect AN products in it (Sensi Grow+Bloom, B52, Voodoo Juice, Nirvana, Big Bud, Overdrive Rhino Skin, Bud Candy, Sensizyme). Now although I got the feeding chart from their website and calculated the amounts I'd need, what I'm not sure about is if they assume a weekly water change while adding these nutes or will I just top up the water, add these on top and go from there. And I've been thinking not to change the water except in between veg/flower as you suggested, but wouldn't that crank up my ppm if these amounts calculated are for freshwater weekly? 
If what you suggest is not to add the nutes according to their plan but only while topping up and checking ppm, how would I be able to calculate how much to add from each of these many nutrients each time?
Also, if I don't top up the water every few days but wait for the end of the week, I'm worried the level might get so low, but on the other hand, wouldn't adding freshwater mess with my ph levels that were perfected with these AN products? I'm kinda lost as you can see 




DrGhard said:


> yes you definitely can. it is always recommended though to do at least one full ress change between veg and flowering.
> 
> - don't use beneficials. while their utility in DWC is questionable already, keeping them in a ress that you are not intending to change will lead to a lot of gunk buildup. while in theory those are not harmful micro-organisms, they do consume oxygen and nutrients in the ress iff things get out of control.


I was planning on using Voodoo Juice with so many great reviews around, but do you think they mostly come from people who change the res water from time to time? I think changing the res fully will start becoming a problem with a scrog net on top of the plants... Well I can pump the water out and refill it if needed of course, I'd do that at least in between stages, but taking out those buckets and doing a full clean wouldn't be so easy...

Also, this page suggests that doing a full water change might cause a shock and do more harm than good, and it's better to empty 50% of the res and add that much back in the system. But in between stages I'd have to do a full change anyway... so what would you guys think about this? Would it be so much of a shock to keep the buckets without water for 10-15 minutes while the old water is getting pumped out?


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## ÒÒlegilizeitÒÒ (Dec 26, 2020)

vorus said:


> I am currently planning on starting a 6 plant rdwc growth and I'll run some many ph perfect AN products in it (Sensi Grow+Bloom, B52, Voodoo Juice, Nirvana, Big Bud, Overdrive Rhino Skin, Bud Candy, Sensizyme). Now although I got the feeding chart from their website and calculated the amounts I'd need, what I'm not sure about is if they assume a weekly water change while adding these nutes or will I just top up the water, add these on top and go from there. And I've been thinking not to change the water except in between veg/flower as you suggested, but wouldn't that crank up my ppm if these amounts calculated are for freshwater weekly?
> If what you suggest is not to add the nutes according to their plan but only while topping up and checking ppm, how would I be able to calculate how much to add from each of these many nutrients each time?
> Also, if I don't top up the water every few days but wait for the end of the week, I'm worried the level might get so low, but on the other hand, wouldn't adding freshwater mess with my ph levels that were perfected with these AN products? I'm kinda lost as you can see
> 
> ...


Lol you just replied to 3 year old posts


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## OldMedUser (Dec 26, 2020)

vorus said:


> I am currently planning on starting a 6 plant rdwc growth and I'll run some many ph perfect AN products in it (Sensi Grow+Bloom, B52, Voodoo Juice, Nirvana, Big Bud, Overdrive Rhino Skin, Bud Candy, Sensizyme). Now although I got the feeding chart from their website and calculated the amounts I'd need, what I'm not sure about is if they assume a weekly water change while adding these nutes or will I just top up the water, add these on top and go from there. And I've been thinking not to change the water except in between veg/flower as you suggested, but wouldn't that crank up my ppm if these amounts calculated are for freshwater weekly?
> If what you suggest is not to add the nutes according to their plan but only while topping up and checking ppm, how would I be able to calculate how much to add from each of these many nutrients each time?
> Also, if I don't top up the water every few days but wait for the end of the week, I'm worried the level might get so low, but on the other hand, wouldn't adding freshwater mess with my ph levels that were perfected with these AN products? I'm kinda lost as you can see


Talk about a blast from the past! lol

First thing is don't waste your money on all those supplements. All you need other than the base nutes is Big Bud and maybe some Rhino which will go bad within a year. Goes all green and gets lumps in it. It does work good with the PH Perfect tech tho. Any decent brand of CalMag will do and I use little of that and Epsom Salts are cheap. Bud Candy is overpriced sugar and really has no place in a hydro grow. I just feeds microbes in soil grows and you don't want those in a sterile hydro grow anyways. The only B vitamin the plants really need is B-1 and you can get a jar of those at the drug store, crush up a couple and toss the powder in the rez. I do that with those. zinc citrate, ascorbic acid, (vit C), a little citric acid, also from the drug store, and a couple of iron tablets. A mixed amino acid supplement too if you want more of those.

They do assume weekly water changes so you toss out perfectly good nutes and have to buy more sooner. Makes sense to them but not to my budget.

I mostly just calculated how much of each to add at top-up in my head. If my target ppm was 600 and after topping up with RO water, not tap, it was down to 450 I'd just use a bit of each to bring it back up. During vigorous veg growth I used a 3-2-1, (G,M,B), ratio of the 3-part as the plants want more of the N and less of the others. At one time I added 1ml of each to 1L of RO water to see how much ppm went up for each of the 3 parts but can't find my notes. Grow was the lowest, Bloom about 50% more than Grow and micro was 3x the Grow I believe. You could do the same then do a little basic algebra to get more exact calculations but a little common sense and basic math skills seemed good enough for me.

The ppm isn't that critical so if I was off 100 ppm either way I'd aim to go the other way at the next top-up. Good enough. If your RH is low then use less as the plants will drink a lot more water and get too many nutes if the ppm is higher. High RH then higher ppm as they drink less so get less nutes at a lower ppm.

Don't worry about the ppm dropping too low over a week. I just did the DWC in single tubs and every 3 days I'd top up with RO water then test ppm and adjust that. You should be able to do the same with RDWC.

This guy that just derided you for replying to an old post seems to have an RDWC grow so maybe check out his link to see what he's doing. He's probably just trolling for followers tho.


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## ÒÒlegilizeitÒÒ (Dec 26, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Talk about a blast from the past! lol
> 
> First thing is don't waste your money on all those supplements. All you need other than the base nutes is Big Bud and maybe some Rhino which will go bad within a year. Goes all green and gets lumps in it. It does work good with the PH Perfect tech tho. Any decent brand of CalMag will do and I use little of that and Epsom Salts are cheap. Bud Candy is overpriced sugar and really has no place in a hydro grow. I just feeds microbes in soil grows and you don't want those in a sterile hydro grow anyways. The only B vitamin the plants really need is B-1 and you can get a jar of those at the drug store, crush up a couple and toss the powder in the rez. I do that with those. zinc citrate, ascorbic acid, (vit C), a little citric acid, also from the drug store, and a couple of iron tablets. A mixed amino acid supplement too if you want more of those.
> 
> ...


Lol just being grumpy 
Wasn't sure if any of the people he replied to would still be floating around even lol
I've been considering going to a top up plan rather than complete change out.
I'm not sure id want to fill with RO and add nutes to make up EC though, I know a lot of the time those need to be in particular order and that might risk lockout.
I like to mix in my nutes in a separate storage barrel at an elevated hight, then I can dump it into my system all at once with gravity, or I have a float valve it can slowly drip fill my res as the plants drink.


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## vorus (Dec 26, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Talk about a blast from the past! lol
> 
> First thing is don't waste your money on all those supplements. All you need other than the base nutes is Big Bud and maybe some Rhino which will go bad within a year. Goes all green and gets lumps in it. It does work good with the PH Perfect tech tho. Any decent brand of CalMag will do and I use little of that and Epsom Salts are cheap. Bud Candy is overpriced sugar and really has no place in a hydro grow. I just feeds microbes in soil grows and you don't want those in a sterile hydro grow anyways. The only B vitamin the plants really need is B-1 and you can get a jar of those at the drug store, crush up a couple and toss the powder in the rez. I do that with those. zinc citrate, ascorbic acid, (vit C), a little citric acid, also from the drug store, and a couple of iron tablets. A mixed amino acid supplement too if you want more of those.
> 
> ...


WOW! What an incredibly detailed and quick reply! Wasn't expecting to cause this much work for you, but thanks a lot... I'll definitely do as you say. The nute budget had me thinking so this suggestion made my day 

After getting such a reply from you, lol's at him... but I have to admit his growth looks fantastic 
Edit: Oh hold on, that was the soil scrog I've seen... no update on the rdwc growth I guess. But nicely built nonetheless.


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## vorus (Dec 26, 2020)

ÒÒlegilizeitÒÒ said:


> Lol just being grumpy
> Wasn't sure if any of the people he replied to would still be floating around even lol
> I've been considering going to a top up plan rather than complete change out.
> I'm not sure id want to fill with RO and add nutes to make up EC though, I know a lot of the time those need to be in particular order and that might risk lockout.
> I like to mix in my nutes in a separate storage barrel at an elevated hight, then I can dump it into my system all at once with gravity, or I have a float valve it can slowly drip fill my res as the plants drink.


I first checked if he was still around  I didn't check the other user I quoted tho, and he's not... doesn't matter, OldMedUser was the one I actually wanted to learn from.


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## ÒÒlegilizeitÒÒ (Dec 26, 2020)

vorus said:


> After getting such a reply from you, lol's at him... but I have to admit his growth looks fantastic
> Edit: Oh hold on, that was the soil scrog I've seen... no update on the rdwc growth I guess. But nicely built nonetheless.


Lol appreciate the complement on my last run.
It was a beauty for sure.
This current cycle is my first hydro run actually, but things are going well and hope for a much taller canopy than my soil scrog


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## OldMedUser (Dec 26, 2020)

ÒÒlegilizeitÒÒ said:


> Lol just being grumpy
> Wasn't sure if any of the people he replied to would still be floating around even lol
> I've been considering going to a top up plan rather than complete change out.
> I'm not sure id want to fill with RO and add nutes to make up EC though, I know a lot of the time those need to be in particular order and that might risk lockout.
> I like to mix in my nutes in a separate storage barrel at an elevated hight, then I can dump it into my system all at once with gravity, or I have a float valve it can slowly drip fill my res as the plants drink.


I've done at least 50 tub DWC grows since 2001 before even Ed Rosenthal thought it was possible and now it's commonplace. I wrote to him when he had his Ask Ed column in Cannabis Culture magazine and he said he didn't think it would work. Calls himself a pot expert. lol I was the Admin at the CC forums when it shut down suddenly two years ago next month. Went by LabRat.

I never saw any problems adding small amounts of concentrated nutes directly to my tubs. I just suck up what I think I need with a syringe and slowly feed it into the tub. I'd add each separately and let the bubbles mix it while I got the next bit. Before the pH perfect nutes I'd drop in 5 or 6 drops of 96% H2SO4, (conc, sulphuric acid) to lower the pH. It would climb to 6.3 and I'd knock it back to 5.5 or so with the acid. Was so regular I'd only check the pH every 3 or 4 top-ups. I don't fret about stuff too much. I grew my first buds back in 1978 then on and off over the years until 20 years ago when I moved to northern Alberta with 6 hash plant clones and have been growing steady ever since.

My thing now is more CBD and indica strains plus getting into breeding more than just pollen chucking. Going to be using STS to make fem seeds and want to have good strain of fem autos for growing outside next year. Too far north for regular photo plants. I'm just using ProMix HP with hydro nutes and lots of pots to experiment and grow lots of smaller plants so I can search for the right phenos to breed with. May get back into DWC down the road.

I checked out your grow journal and pretty sweet! I think rather than chunk out that concrete to get more room I would have framed out a room in the corner there. A few 2x4s and some osb board and Bob's your uncle. My basement grow room is a 7x9x6.5'h cold storage room the previous owner had built. I still plan to add an 8x4 grow space to it and have a spare bedroom upstairs for vegging plants. That and the cheap price for 7.5 acres with a winterized 1990 16x80' mobile home with huge connected, heated and well insulated workshop sold me right away. Middle of nowhere but right on a 2 lane highway with 10 miles to a small town. Got my own mancave with all the toys I'll ever need. 

I'm building my own RO system as the store bought don't have what I wanted. Our water comes from a dugout on the property so needed UV and extra filtration. $550 for everything but we buy 5 jugs of RO/week for $18 so it will pay for itself in 5 or 6 months and no more hauling heavy jugs out of the store then into the house.

I laid the things out two different ways to make it fit in the corner where the water distiller is. Going to re&re it and should be able to sell it for the $500 at least. Same modle used from the store goes for $1500 and was $3000 new. Polar Bear distiller with 10USG storage tank. Feed to the kitchen sink too. I'll have a line to the grow room right after the RO filter, a 2nd line after the last carbon filter to get low ppm water for the coffee maker and then it goes thru a calcite filter to add minerals for drinking and cooking water. 150gal/day like yours. Going to use the old brine tank from the softener unit for storage in the grow room. 150L and I'll have an airstone in there so lots of O2 for the plants. Filtered down to 0.5 micron.





Just pigged out on turkey with all the trimmings so time for a bowl and maybe a small micro-dose of 'shrooms.


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## OldMedUser (Dec 26, 2020)

vorus said:


> WOW! What an incredibly detailed and quick reply! Wasn't expecting to cause this much work for you, but thanks a lot... I'll definitely do as you say. The nute budget had me thinking so this suggestion made my day
> 
> After getting such a reply from you, lol's at him... but I have to admit his growth looks fantastic
> Edit: Oh hold on, that was the soil scrog I've seen... no update on the rdwc growth I guess. But nicely built nonetheless.


Your more than welcome. It's kinda been my thing for for over a decade to help new growers and I've learned a shitload along the way.
I don't show a lot of my grows as I don't put a lot of effort into them so they're not as pretty as most. The depression has been pretty bad the last few years so it's hard to get shit done. Recently started micro-dosing magic mushrooms and I'm pretty sure it's helping but it takes a month or so to tell for sure. Fun trying anyhow.


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## Kdoggy (Dec 26, 2020)

ÒÒlegilizeitÒÒ said:


> Lol you just replied to 3 year old posts


Because his problems are no longer relavent or because the guy might not be in the forums? I dont get the attack on old posts new forum users learn from old posts weed growing is still weed growing. And when a guy hits new posts it dont matter the guy who originally posted is active so who cares? Im sure thats how he arrived here to start with googled it seems logical to just answer him not belittle him. But im sure u were joking so no harm done it just happened to be you who said it lol.


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## James beam (May 13, 2022)

Airwalker16 said:


> Only time I do it is going from veg to flower. you're correct in saying they drink so freaking much that you need to replace so often there's almost No reason to switch.


Yea man. Sorry to hack your conversation but I totally agree with you.. I only change between cycles. always have.. But occasionally if I have a suspected problem when I have pushed the ppms up to see what the plants will take would I consider a half change and then full re feed.. I would typically see 10litres of water being taken every 1 to 2 days.. Out of a 40 litre grow tank... So in effect I am changing the water by a quarter every 2 days.. So where is the sense? ... I usually go on a guide of TDS.. If it stops altering when I top up or stays the same..or the plants stop drinking.. Then I might consider a full or half change...just to eliminate that as being a potential problem... But that is the only time.. But in opinion.. . If its not broken. Why fix it?. Your plants and readings will tell you soon enough and alot of this comes down to growing strains you know for your set up... I really don't think it's a hard and fast rule for everyone who grows on water... Its just a guide or rule of thumb to be on the safe side I suppose... Cheers.


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## James beam (May 13, 2022)

chasingwaterfalls said:


> In my albeit limited number of dwc grows (4 now..), I've had different experiences - I think as long as you're checking the water regularly and change the res before any problem gets out of hand, you don't really need to follow a strict schedule
> 
> I've been using Lucas with GH in dwc- first with the flora series (micro+bloom) and now I'm trying the flora nova bloom for the first time.
> 
> ...


Sorry to add mate.. But yes I do the same.. If think you have a problem just a half change is good.. If your topping up or feeding anyway take a little more out to make it 50 percent and refill with water and full feed if due.. Works fine.. Imo..


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## James beam (May 13, 2022)

L


Kdoggy said:


> Because his problems are no longer relavent or because the guy might not be in the forums? I dont get the attack on old posts new forum users learn from old posts weed growing is still weed growing. And when a guy hits new posts it dont matter the guy who originally posted is active so who cares? Im sure thats how he arrived here to start with googled it seems logical to just answer him not belittle him. But im sure u were joking so no harm done it just happened to be you who said it lol.


Lol. Sorry man.. It wasn't an attack.. Didn't check the dates... I was browsing and it came up.. Lol... The guys probably drawing his pension now.. Lol.. Sorry


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