# Belief Without Evidence WTF?



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

how is it seriousley possible people believe in gods without evidence , anything else in life requires evidence, to believe its true , yet when it comes to believing in a god , stupid people disregard this vital point , why is this ? its truly shocking


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## dbkick (Oct 9, 2011)

without evidence?????? /me looks around......
The evidence is everywhere man!!!!!
/end sarcasm


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## dbkick (Oct 9, 2011)

I won't be sucked into another one of these long winded no point having threads again, I won't state my beliefs but I will say this, have a nice day!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

sorry to be harsh but people like this need telling straight away or they will argue blidly with no thought into anything .


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

its called faith, ive done plenty and have been shown my way


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

and i really want to keep to the main question here no wandering off , i want to know why people discard evidence when it comes down to religion, when they would never dream of it, when say it came to what medicine they should take ,


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## dbkick (Oct 9, 2011)

listen motherfucker you're the idiot if you think for a moment I'm a goddamn bible thumper, you do understand what the fuck sarcasm means don't you mr darwin?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

so for some reason you suddenly pop out 'faith ' why dont you use faith when you decide what medicine to give a ill friend , ?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

sarcasm is the lowest form of humour lets keep to topic please sunshine .


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## dbkick (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> sorry to be harsh but people like this need telling straight away or they will argue blidly with no thought into anything .


 ain't it the truth, you're definite proof of that.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

if you post keep it to question in hand please .


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## dbkick (Oct 9, 2011)

I'm guessing 95+ percent of the people here could care less about the content of this thread and I'm one of them, have a nice day.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

why do you religious people discard your every day logic n reason when following religion , its a easy thing for human mind to do , i just wander if any of you stop n think about it ?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

dbkick said:


> I'm guessing 95+ percent of the people here could care less about the content of this thread and I'm one of them, have a nice day.


err yeah see ya............freak


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so for some reason you suddenly pop out 'faith ' why dont you use faith when you decide what medicine to give a ill friend , ?


 faith is when you ask god for the answer and he give you. i was miserable, had faith and realized what meds i could start taking even though it is illegal to smoke. there faith for you


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> faith is when you ask god for the answer and he give you. i was miserable, had faith and realized what meds i could start taking even though it is illegal to smoke. there faith for you


 ok first off you need to prove 'this' god even exists before you can ask for an answer , i can ask the bogey man who lives under the stairs for an answer but it dosent mean he/it exists . 
come on dude think .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

i was miserable and asked my ball sack for an answer it made me happy so my ball sack is god


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> faith is when you ask god for the answer and he give you. i was miserable, had faith and realized what meds i could start taking even though it is illegal to smoke. there faith for you


i cant even take this seriousley .............................


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

for the answer to the boogy man ask nephilym. you want proof, i got hit by a fucking train! im talking totally fucked up 15 broken ribs 2 broken back bones(one now gone) 5 places of broken elbow,right, punctured lung laceration to the liver and 200 stitches and staples to my head. train stoped i was dead 3 ppl there(hmm odd number) one started praying and i started breathing again and saw an angel telling me it wasnt my time 3 months later im out 3 year im on my own living(hmmm 3 plus 3 plus another 3 and the one angel who gave me a message from(means he's just a messenger) one god who started this journey= 7


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJxCFa8YmbQ you just have to watch this idiot .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

seriousley , i think your just trolling coz not many people are this dumb , but i like it coz it helps my cause .


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so what happend to all the other people who got hit by a train n died ? seriosley your an idiot , you survived a train crash n you say its coz of god what do you call it when you dont survive a train crash ?


 i call it FUCKEN HELL YEAH WHERE WHEN WHAT TIME!!!!!! I CANT WAIT TO GO HOME DUDE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE MISSING HO TAKE SOME MOLLY THATS AS CLOSE AS YOUR GOING TO GET!


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> i call it FUCKEN HELL YEAH WHERE WHEN WHAT TIME!!!!!! I CANT WAIT TO GO HOME DUDE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE MISSING HO TAKE SOME MOLLY THATS AS CLOSE AS YOUR GOING TO GET!


 Wow all god lovers as hung strung as you?
Hmm guess that's what happens when you keep believing in mythical magical beings in adulthood 
Quit believing in that crap bout the same time i quit believing that a tooth fairy doesn't exist.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

You know what sativa? You must be one stupid motherfucker to seriously ask this or make this thread. You ask this everywhere and we answer this everywhere. 

I am now convinced you're a dirty little troll.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

[video=youtube;QeHVYuRnIjY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeHVYuRnIjY[/video]


silasraven said:


> for the answer to the boogy man ask nephilym. you want proof, i got hit by a fucking train! im talking totally fucked up 15 broken ribs 2 broken back bones(one now gone) 5 places of broken elbow,right, punctured lung laceration to the liver and 200 stitches and staples to my head. train stoped i was dead 3 ppl there(hmm odd number) one started praying and i started breathing again and saw an angel telling me it wasnt my time 3 months later im out 3 year im on my own living(hmmm 3 plus 3 plus another 3 and the one angel who gave me a message from(means he's just a messenger) one god who started this journey= 7


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

ALSO YOU HAVENT A CLUE, death is awsome the most amazing thing thats ever happend to me it felt great. you just were mo body no mind just a soul i still could see my body from within and threw my eyes, but it was preety great. try it. youll learn to love it.


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> [video=youtube;QeHVYuRnIjY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeHVYuRnIjY[/video]


 i dont get it, how does that relate?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> You know what sativa? You must be one stupid motherfucker to seriously ask this or make this thread. You ask this everywhere and we answer this everywhere.
> 
> I am now convinced you're a dirty little troll.


oh right funny ive never seen you answer this question all i get is FAITH lol


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> ALSO YOU HAVENT A CLUE, death is awsome the most amazing thing thats ever happend to me it felt great. you just were mo body no mind just a soul i still could see my body from within and threw my eyes, but it was preety great. try it. youll learn to love it.


Got blow up 3x in iraq Ive had my share of near death experiences buddy


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

did you watch it


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> oh right funny ive never seen you answer this question all i get is FAITH lol


I wouldn't pay attention to him. Some punk ass 18 year old fat Mexican kid that got no life and doesn't even fing grow. Pathetic...


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> ALSO YOU HAVENT A CLUE, death is awsome the most amazing thing thats ever happend to me it felt great. you just were mo body no mind just a soul i still could see my body from within and threw my eyes, but it was preety great. try it. youll learn to love it.


 yeah you come close to death dude quit going on lots of people survive horrific accidents , its not due to a freakin god saving them or a random women praying for them lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> I wouldn't pay attention to him. Some punk ass 18 year old fat Mexican kid that got no life and doesn't even fing grow. Pathetic...


yeah i know dude but hes fun to fuck wid all the same lol


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> sarcasm is the lowest form of humour lets keep to topic please sunshine .


Lol someone said that on here somewhere, ha. 

So how is it the lowest form of HUMOR?

Talk about sticking to the topic, why are you bitching about humor?


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

just cause you dont believe dont be haten. ppl like you have been around forever congrats me u this talk nothing new been here forever will be forgotten hellow goodbye life is over......................................................................................................................................................................


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> why do you religious people discard your every day logic n reason when following religion , its a easy thing for human mind to do , i just wander if any of you stop n think about it ?


Lol funny how you group all religious people together and say they all think unlogically.


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## dbkick (Oct 9, 2011)

sticking to topic, I don't give a fuck wh at you believe but believe this, OP IS A FUCKING MORON.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah i know dude but hes fun to fuck wid all the same lol


Yeah I like arguing with you.... Your stupidity is amazing.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> oh right funny ive never seen you answer this question all i get is FAITH lol


Then I guess you're one stupid motherducker.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol funny how you group all religious people together and say they all think unlogically.


seriousley hepatitus , you never have anything to say just the same old bull shit , but ill own you as usual coz your a sucker for looking stupid lol of course i think ALL religious people think unlogically , they all have a common belief in something there is no evidence for .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> I wouldn't pay attention to him. Some punk ass 18 year old fat Mexican kid that got no life and doesn't even fing grow. Pathetic...


lol you don't know how old I am, I'm guessing you're around 12. I went through a little pissed phase like you when I was around that age.

Umm where did you get off thinking I'm fat? Lol..

And the Mexican thing is just racist, wow dude I hope a fat Mexican kicks your ass, ha.

And where did you get the idea I don't grow?

Am I any more pathetic than you? I mean your the guy that stalks me, lol.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Then I guess you're one stupid motherducker.


 heres one thing to totally own you on .............give me one piece of evidence your god exists .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

btw everyone reading this , heppatitus allso believes in unicorns and mermaids


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

give him one that proves one doesn't


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> seriousley hepatitus , you never have anything to say just the same old bull shit , but ill own you as usual coz your a sucker for looking stupid lol of course i think ALL religious people think unlogically , they all have a common belief in something there is no evidence for .


I always have the same bullshit to say? Well mindless rambling is the result of your stupid threads, what do you expect from your threads? Umm when have you ever owned me? Bitch I knock your shit aside and read points that even dim witted people post. 

But fair enough answer, it's in your opinion. Some religions don't believe in anything that contradicts facts.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> btw everyone reading this , heppatitus allso believes in unicorns and mermaids


Sadly I do, because this guy says I do. I'm shocked too, I just found this out, .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> give him one that proves one doesn't


 thats the dumbest thing i ever heard , give me one that the honey monster dosent exist ? its down to the person claiming something exists to prove that it does , i could say i have a goblin in my pocket prove that i havent , lol dumb


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I always have the same bullshit to say? Well mindless rambling is the result of your stupid threads, what do you expect from your threads? Umm when have you ever owned me? Bitch I knock your shit aside and read points that even dim witted people post.
> 
> But fair enough answer, it's in your opinion. Some religions don't believe in anything that contradicts facts.


lets stay to the topic in hand , why do you believe in your god when you have not one scrap of evidence he /she/it exists ?


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> thats the dumbest thing i ever heard , give me one that the honey monster dosent exist ? its down to the person claiming something exists to prove that it does , i could say i have a goblin in my pocket prove that i havent , lol dumb


 this is just sad and immature,,,, answer the question


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## ghantron (Oct 9, 2011)

I dont believe in "god" in the sense most people do but rather it as being the metaphysical world of which we live, it defines the reoccurring characteristics which define all situations. e.g. Spatiality, time, reality, necessity, energy((virbration)until absolute 0 is reached), etc. . I dont believe of it as a conscious being, or one that makes judgment on peoples "souls". I believe it to be everywhere but not at the essence of everything but the essence of the existence and being of everything. dig?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> thats the dumbest thing i ever heard , give me one that the honey monster dosent exist ? its down to the person claiming something exists to prove that it does , i could say i have a goblin in my pocket prove that i havent , lol dumb


Oh shit that's the dumbest thing you have ever heard? You can hear his posts? Crazy.
If you wanna see something stupid, take a look at your posts.
Besides what he said doesn't make any more sense than you asking me for evidence.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lets stay to the topic in hand , why do you believe in your god when you have not one scrap of evidence he /she/it exists ?


How did I go off topic, lol. Using your logic I am now on topic.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> this is just sad and immature,,,, answer the question


 no its not , your answer is plain dumb as fuck , i repeat its not down to me to prove something dosent exist , you cant do it , its down to the person claiming something exists to come up with the evidence that it does exist , again for example , you can not prove that the goblin in my pocket does not exist , that dosent mean it does you cant prove it does , i have a three headed snake in my pants , prove it does not exist .
your claiming a god exists so prove it , i cant prove your god dosent exist , the same as i cant prove your 18 inch cock monster exists .dosent make it real sunshine .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Well since you're too stupid to have remembered my answer to your question, I will answer again. This time it will be very short because it would be a waste going into detail with you sativa. 

I follow Christ (Christian by definition) because of his morals. Done that's it.

How can I believe in something without evidence? 
Simple, just do what I do, lol.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

your making claims , prove your point


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no its not , your answer is plain dumb as fuck , i repeat its not down to me to prove something dosent exist , you cant do it , its down to the person claiming something exists to come up with the evidence that it does exist , again for example , you can not prove that the goblin in my pocket does not exist , that dosent mean it does you cant prove it does , i have a three headed snake in my pants , prove it does not exist .
> your claiming a god exists so prove it , i cant prove your god dosent exist , the same as i cant prove your 18 inch cock monster exists .dosent make it real sunshine .


wow you use the same arguments so many others have used in this sub- forum, lol.
The only difference is you dumb it down.

Childish insult - check
Deflecting question - check
Weak satire - check.


Oh by the way I don't claim god is real, I personally choose to believe he/ she/it's real.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> me and many other members on here have corrected you on so many different points , but you choose to ignore the evidence


 you have the evidence i asked for then the proof that there is no god


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> give it up dude your like a 12 year old , untill you come up with one single piece of evidence for your god even existing im going to ignore you , you are stupid , and dumb , me and many other members on here have corrected you on so many different points , but you choose to ignore the evidence , its pointless arguing with you , untill you grasp the basics .


 I must say I honestly believe I have much more inteligence than you. I'm not saying I'm the smartest person here, because I'm no where near as smart as some intelligent minds on RIU. 
But anyways how are you smart? I have just never seen a "smart" post from you, honestly.

Go ahead and ignore me, turn your back and pout. 

I'm surprised at you. How can you say I ignore evidence? What is this evidence that I ignore?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Please sativa teach me with your all knowing wisdom. Show me the evidence, I'm begging you.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

hepheastus420 said:


> please sativa teach me with your all knowing wisdom. Show me the evidence, i'm begging you.


there is no evidence , are we getting somewhere with you yet ?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> there is no evidence , are we getting somewhere with you yet ?


So why did you say I ignore the evidence?
That's strange, I ignore something that can't be ignored?


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> there is no evidence , are we getting somewhere with you yet ?


 this is why i am agnostic until we can have proof one way or the other i will be on the fence on this one so put up or shut up both of you


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Please sativa teach me the evidence that goes against my beliefs.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

where is this evidence you keep talking about sativa i really wold like to see it


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> me and many other members on here have corrected you on so many different points , but you choose to ignore the evidence , its pointless arguing with you , untill you grasp the basics ..............


It's pretty sad I have to quote you on exactly what I'm referring to. 

Alright this evidence. You say I choose to ignore it. Ignore what? Show me what I am ignoring. What basics?
I'm sorry but I can't ask any more clear, so please think really hard and answer.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> where is this evidence you keep talking about sativa i really wold like to see it


what evidence do you want ?


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> lol you don't know how old I am, I'm guessing you're around 12. I went through a little pissed phase like you when I was around that age.
> 
> Umm where did you get off thinking I'm fat? Lol..
> 
> ...


Haha yes I'm a combat vet and im 12 years old. You got me guess that makes me the baddest mother fucking 12 year old you ever knew huh.
Saying your a fat Mexican is racist?? umm what?? Since when it saying Fat Mexican racists lol. Thats not even insulting its simply describes your body type and your nationality. I think you should go educated you self there smart one. 
Show me one plant you grew hahaha you cant. Because it doesn't exist.And i did say that YOU grew not one you will steal off another website 
if you consider me commenting on one of you post every 3-5 weeks stalking. Well then child what the hell does that make you responding to my posts?? lol...

You are pathetic i know it, you know it, your mom knows it, and now RIU knows it 

Oh btw haha your the one that posted your 18 in another thread here let me look it up for you


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> Heres an example for you children , we have evidence a horse exists , we have no evidence a unicorn exists .


So you have evidence a horse exists, so that proves a god doesn't?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

hepheastus420 said:


> it's pretty sad i have to quote you on exactly what i'm referring to.
> 
> Alright this evidence. You say i choose to ignore it. Ignore what? Show me what i am ignoring. What basics?
> I'm sorry but i can't ask any more clear, so please think really hard and answer.


wtf are you going on about ?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> what evidence do you want ?


Wow, just fucking WOW. Take a look at the post above the one I just quoted.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> what evidence do you want ?


 the evidence that you keep claiming to have


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> wtf are you going on about ?


Do I have to quote you again, fuck lol.

Look at the post you quoted, on that post I quoted you. That is what I'm referring to, if you don't understand what I mean you're the most dumb person I know.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> your to stupid to even comprehend


Lol it cracks me up whenever YOU call ME stupid, haha.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> Haha yes I'm a combat vet and im 12 years old. You got me guess that makes me the baddest mother fucking 12 year old you ever knew huh.
> Saying your a fat Mexican is racist?? umm what?? Since when it saying Fat Mexican racists lol. Thats not even insulting its simply describes your body type and your nationality. I think you should go educated you self there smart one.
> Show me one plant you grew hahaha you cant. Because it doesn't exist.And i did say that YOU grew not one you will steal off another website
> if you consider me commenting on one of you post every 3-5 weeks stalking. Well then child what the hell does that make you responding to my posts?? lol...
> ...


Alright I take back what I said. You're just very immature, which is worse than just being 12.
Yes saying I'm a fat Mexican is racist in the way you use it. You used it as an insult. Everything you described me as is a negative, so why assume I'm mexican. You're probably just a closet racist, lol.


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol it cracks me up whenever YOU call ME stupid, haha.


The truth hurts


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright I take back what I said. You're just very immature, which is worse than just being 12.
> Yes saying I'm a fat Mexican is racist in the way you use it. You used it as an insult. Everything you described me as is a negative, so why assume I'm mexican. You're probably just a closet racist, lol.


 No its not lol you cant buy beer when your 12..
No im very open with it  should see the lower case t in my front yard. Hinting intruders "its time to leave"


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> The truth hurts


Alright so are you done making childish insults? Like seriously, do you see how immature you are? Just answer that for me.


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright so are you done making childish insults? Like seriously, do you see how immature you are? Just answer that for me.


 haha i love how your getting all flustered over the internet


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> You are totaly stupid you just go around in circles , im going to bed its completely pointless arguing with you , you completely skip points , and ignore evidence , there is no point in arguing with you , im still waiting for the evidence your god exists , when we have gone over this point , i will give you the evidence a horse exists .


BULLSHIT!!! i demand this evidence NOW!!!


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Ehh arguing with a bunch of dumbasses (sutra and sativa). All you guys have is childish insults and false evidence.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> You are totaly stupid you just go around in circles , im going to bed its completely pointless arguing with you , you completely skip points , and ignore evidence , there is no point in arguing with you , im still waiting for the evidence your god exists , when we have gone over this point , i will give you the evidence a horse exists .


Lol wow, I'm pretty sure I just owned you. I asked for your evidence and points, and all you did was say I ignore them. Again, how can I ignore something that can't be ignored?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> haha i love how your getting all flustered over the internet


Nah I just don't really care, I'm more sad that some people on this planet are as dim witted as you two.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> BULLSHIT!!! i demand this evidence NOW!!!


Give it up he has no evidence.... he is embarrassed, so he's just gonna "go to sleep" lol.


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ehh arguing with a bunch of dumbasses (sutra and sativa). All you guys have is childish insults and false evidence.


 Oh yes and the evidence of you growing one plant is where?? hmm at least this so call "false" evidence is still evidence. And your evidence is non existent haha 
Haha i love this straight like a 15 year old " I HATE YOU GUYS YOUR ALL DUM DUMS" *thumps foot and scrams to room* *DOOR SLAMMM*


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Give it up he has no evidence.... he is embarrassed, so he's just gonna "go to sleep" lol.


 Your not very smart are you?? all he has to do is post a pic of a horse that he took and that's evidence it exists


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol wow, I'm pretty sure I just owned you. I asked for your evidence and points, and all you did was say I ignore them. Again, how can I ignore something that can't be ignored?


 yeah what ever mate , i dont need evidence to oprove your god exists you are the one who needs evidence , i have a two headed elephant that lives in my garden shed and hes invisible . 
keep lying to yourself and spread it on to your children , im glad your gullible and im glad you cant think for yourself and im glad you and your familly will waste the only life you have , im done with you you are to stupid to waste my time on .


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## jcdws602 (Oct 9, 2011)

................


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah what ever mate , i dont need evidence to oprove your god exists you are the one who needs evidence , i have a two headed elephant that lives in my garden shed and hes invisible .
> keep lying to yourself and spread it on to your children , im glad your gullible and im glad you cant think for yourself and im glad you and your familly will waste the only life you have , im done with you you are to stupid to waste my time on .


So I claim victory? Cool.
Please stop giving examples. You claimed that I ignore evidence... Well what evidence?
How am I stupid or gullible? How do I not think for myself.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> Your not very smart are you?? all he has to do is post a pic of a horse that he took and that's evidence it exists


So sativas claim is that I ignore the evidence... right? 
Well I don't ignore a horses existence. So I want to know what evidence is it that I ignore.


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## jcdws602 (Oct 9, 2011)

Here is your GOD..................


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Hmm any chance you guys are gonna show a tiny bit of intelligence soon?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Heis, Tyler, oly, raw, canibaneer, diesel, blazenkill, pad..... Anyone (sorry if I didn't name you, just off the top of my head) please explain to me the evidence I am ignoring. Please show me how I'm gullible and dumb. I really need help, because these two guys are confusing as fuck.


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Hmm any chance you guys are gonna show a tiny bit of intelligence soon?


 Any chance you gonna show a tiny bit of evidence of your so call "grow"? That you claim.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> Any chance you gonna show a tiny bit of evidence of your so call "grow"? That you claim.


No I don't see how I can. Also I don't claim to have evidence, sativa claims he has evidence that I ignore. 
I want to see this evidence.


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## splifchris (Oct 9, 2011)

Ok... So i get there's not a god, as it big guy in the sky.... religious buz.... but there is definately life energy... in everyone... in everything god and negative and i dont know how people cant feel that in them selfs and others around them....its just energy...


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> No I don't see how I can. Also I don't claim to have evidence, sativa claims he has evidence that I ignore.
> I want to see this evidence.


 lol learn to read. I'm talking about you cannabis grow that you claim does exist.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Sativa, please admit you were wrong on your claim that I ignore evidence. Then you won't look as stupid as you do now.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> lol learn to read. I'm talking about you cannabis grow that you claim does exist.


I answered already.

No, I don't see how I can. I don't have a camera.


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Sativa, please admit you were wrong on your claim that I ignore evidence. Then you won't look as stupid as you do now.


 Haha yes "hes" the one that looks stupid  lol thats a riot.


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I answered already.
> 
> No, I don't see how I can. I don't have a camera.


Or a cell phone with one right. 
lol just admit it you dont grow and your a lying pos. Come on now its not that hard.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> Haha yes "hes" the one that looks stupid  lol thats a riot.


Are you trying to say I look stupid? Just say it.
Then explain how I look stupid.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

suTraGrow said:


> Or a cell phone with one right.
> lol just admit it you dont grow and your a lying pos. Come on now its not that hard.


Yes I'm lying..... feel better?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Alright so I'm done for now until sutra acts mature, sativa shows me the evidence I ignore, or a person with a tad bit of intelligence talks some sense into you two.


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## suTraGrow (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright so I'm done for now until sutra acts mature, sativa shows me the evidence I ignore, or a person with a tad bit of intelligence talks some sense into you two.


lol yes i'm the one pouting like a 10 year old threatening to leave unless everything is to your stats lol. Go away kid. There is a ignore option as well 
Im calling you out on your lie that you grow and im immature. Better be immature then a piece of shit liar. Gonna assume your self and cannabisguru are BFFs irl huh??


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## Heisenberg (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> dbkick you truly are a typical stupid person , you look around you , have no idea why or what you are so you happily insert 'god did it ' , you truly are a disgrace to the human race with logic like that humans would never evolve im glad there are much more clever people than you out there .


Could you possibly be any more crass and unlikable? I would rather hang out with someone who believes in God for no reason than a self righteous pompous douche like you. If every Sunday I had to choose between going to church or smoking a joint with you, i'd pick God every time. You suck at debate, you suck at conduct, and you suck at being an atheist. You are nothing more than a half-wit rebellious malcontent who blames others for the divine chip on his shoulder.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

belief without evidence , i can't disbelieve without evidence either so what is the point of this thread , i am still agnostic until one side or the other can come up with some tangible evidence


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Could you possibly be any more crass and unlikable? I would rather hang out with someone who believes in God for no reason than a self righteous pompous douche like you. If every Sunday I had to chose between going to church or smoking a joint with you, i'd pick God every time. You suck at debate, you suck at conduct, and you suck at being an atheist. You are nothing more than a half-wit rebellious malcontent who blames others for the divine chip on his shoulder.


 Gotta spread some rep before I can rep you again, lol. Very well said though, his debates do honestly suck. So does his crappy attitude. And he still didn't show me this evidence I'm ignoring, oh man worst argument I've ever had.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> belief without evidence , i can't disbelieve without evidence either so what is the point of this thread , i am still agnostic until one side or the other can come up with some tangible evidence


I respect your beliefs, and see where you're coming from. I call myself a Christian by definition. I follow Christ, but in the sense that people follow their parents rules. I honestly believe people in the bible didn't know shit about god, and have no right to teach his rules. I don't know shit about afterlife, if their is one. I don't know crap about anything to be honest. I would like to have hard facts on either side. Like either science finds out everything about our existence or "god" comes and explains everything, lol.

I'm not saying I have the same beliefs as you, I'm just saying I kinda get what your saying about no evidence.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 10, 2011)

sativa you're either retarded or a simple minded troll, but either way you yourself hasnt given any evidence or proof that god doesnt exist. and the way you go about sayin what you have to say sounds just like one of those stupid ass radical religious people. so if youre gonna argue somethin bruh bring the iq level up then do it


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## parttimer (Oct 10, 2011)

This is what you are dealing with, watch till the last comment. Then laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TUsgUPX8Pho


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## parttimer (Oct 10, 2011)

Just a simple point on the proof side of things, we have proof that a dinosaur existed and that man has been on earth for a very long time, much longer than the 12000 years that the bible claims the Earth has been around.

I do not personally believe in a magic space fairy sitting on a cloud listening to every prayer in the world at the same time and selecting which ones to listen to and which to ignore.

If it does exist, thanks for giving kids cancer and other diseases you cunt!


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 10, 2011)

parttimer said:


> Just a simple point on the proof side of things, we have proof that a dinosaur existed and that man has been on earth for a very long time, much longer than the 12000 years that the bible claims the Earth has been around.
> 
> I do not personally believe in a magic space fairy sitting on a cloud listening to every prayer in the world at the same time and selecting which ones to listen to and which to ignore.
> 
> If it does exist, thanks for giving kids cancer and other diseases you cunt!


Im not trying to fight with you, . 
I understand dinosaurs exist, what was the point if that? Like seriously, I don't see the point.
Interesting hate towards something you don't believe. Hypothetically speaking, if god is real then he didn't have to give humans life anyways. So why is it so bad to give these kids life? Why is it bad to give them a shot at heaven?
These are real questions BTW, I'm not trying to be a dick.


----------



## parttimer (Oct 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Im not trying to fight with you, .
> I understand dinosaurs exist, what was the point if that? Like seriously, I don't see the point.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 10, 2011)

parttimer said:


> Hepheastus420 said:
> 
> 
> > Im not trying to fight with you, .
> ...


----------



## olylifter420 (Oct 10, 2011)

> how is it seriousley possible people believe in gods without evidence


this is something your simpleton mind will never understand. Your small mind cannot understand complex thinking, only small bits of gathered information and techniques that you have gotten from really good atheists on here. 



> anything else in life requires evidence, to believe its true


You are truly retarded. So, when you were of age, you asked your mom, oh wait sorry, your MUM, to give you evidence that she was your mumther? You most certainly would have told that you have got to be kidding, but when nothing was produced, your so called "evidence" you should have left your home correct? You are a logical man or child right, so why stay there?



> yet when it comes to believing in a god ,


let me see if this help, what computer are you using? Dell, hp, apple? you chose it not because someone else told you to get, but because you have personal preferences that may differ greatly from the next person. Quit being a hermephadite !



> stupid people disregard this vital point


this has been discussed already. Just because people believe, you claim they are stupid, yet some of the people that did the work to help you hate on believers were believers themselves. You are stupid.



> its truly shocking


what is shocking is your craving for believer cock. All you do is call out believers. I think you have a sick philia for believers.


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## ghantron (Oct 10, 2011)

quasi-philosophical evidence god (in traditional sense) cant exist, If god were all powerful how could the presence of evil exist (devil) unless god were to allow it. If god were to allow evil then he is not a wholly good being... or the simplest one, make a rock so big god itself couldnt lift... If one is true then the god cannot be all powerful.

also evolution is a fact that is completely contradictory to the beginnings of the bible. If it lied to you once, you can be sure it will again.
our hang up on religions, and denial of science based knowledge is preventing us from progressing as a society.

the more science based knowledge(life outside our planet, evolution, heliocentric theory rejected, the world is round) that comes out the more the religion or term of god is reformed, which shows a weak understanding at best.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 10, 2011)

ghantron said:


> quasi-philosophical evidence god (in traditional sense) cant exist, If god were all powerful how could the presence of evil exist (devil) unless god were to allow it. If god were to allow evil then he is not a wholly good being... or the simplest one, make a rock so big god itself couldnt lift... If one is true then the god cannot be all powerful.
> 
> also evolution is a fact that is completely contradictory to the beginnings of the bible. If it lied to you once, you can be sure it will again.
> our hang up on religions, and denial of science based knowledge is preventing us from progressing as a society.
> ...


Here you go this is what many people believe is the reason god allows evil....
http://www.bethinking.org/suffering/introductory/q-why-does-god-allow-evil-to-exist.htm
.... Pretty much "free will".

Yes evolution is contradictory to the bible, I have nothing to say to that. I'm not ignoring evolution, I'm just saying yes, I believe evolution.


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## spandy (Oct 10, 2011)

parttimer said:


> Hepheastus420 said:
> 
> 
> > Im not trying to fight with you, .
> ...


----------



## mindphuk (Oct 10, 2011)

spandy said:


> All radiometric dating methods are based on assumptions about events that happened in the past. If the assumptions are accepted as true (as is typically done in the evolutionary dating processes), results can be biased toward a desired age. In the reported ages given in textbooks and other journals, these evolutionary assumptions have not been questioned, while results inconsistent with long ages have been censored. When the assumptions were evaluated and shown faulty, the results supported the biblical account of a global Flood and young earth. Christians should not be afraid of radiometric dating methods. Carbon-14 dating is really the friend of Christians, and it supports a young earth.
> The RATE scientists are convinced that the popular idea attributed to geologist Charles Lyell from nearly two centuries ago, The present is the key to the past, is simply not valid for an earth history of millions or billions of years. An alternative interpretation of the carbon-14 data is that the earth experienced a global flood catastrophe which laid down most of the rock strata and fossils.... Whatever the source of the carbon-14, its presence in nearly every sample tested worldwide is a strong challenge to an ancient age. Carbon-14 data is now firmly on the side of the young-earth view of history.
> 
> 
> ...


You might want to pick up a book on radiometric dating rather than rely on YEC websites for your information. We don't use carbon-14 to date rocks, EVER.


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## cannabineer (Oct 10, 2011)

Uranium/lead dating is popular for finding rock ages, and it is direct. No inferences, biases or assumptions are needed other than a) the mineral grain in question (typically zircon) didn't exchange ions, and 2) we can assay how much lead was present upon grain formation, so that we can properly assign the amount of lead formed by decay of uranium. Lead isotope ratios help here, and they too are direct.

Why does being Christian require signing on to "young Earth" theories in any case? cn


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## Harrekin (Oct 10, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Here you go this is what many people believe is the reason god allows evil....
> http://www.bethinking.org/suffering/introductory/q-why-does-god-allow-evil-to-exist.htm
> .... Pretty much "free will".
> 
> Yes evolution is contradictory to the bible, I have nothing to say to that. I'm not ignoring evolution, I'm just saying yes, I believe evolution.


One point on the free will thing...you have to remember the Bible states in Genesis that God did not give us free will, we took it and got kicked out of paradise for it. It's a massively overlooked point by Christians. 

I'm agnostic,waiting for the proof either way and depending on what's proven until then. 

One thing I think is totally hilarious is that most Christians think evolution and intelligent design both have to be mutually exclusive when in theory "God" could have used evolution in his intelligent design. 

All pure speculation obviously, but I don't see why either side refuses to budge on any points...I personally like proof tho, and until I get proof God exists or doesn't I'm gonna just keep trucking through life with what I do know and is proven to be true and trying to be the best person I possibly can be.

EDIT: Forgot to say, the idea of organised religion is completely stupid tho...believe what you personally believe,not what some dude in a frock or a story book says.


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## cannabineer (Oct 10, 2011)

Technically "the knowledge of good and evil" and free will are distinct.
I am very curious btw why "young Earth" and Christianity have been so thoroughly yoked together ... cn


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## Harrekin (Oct 10, 2011)

Because the Bible chronologically states that the Earth is roughly 12000 years old,tends to get them lumped together. 

One cannot have free will with such a restricted consciousness as to not know the difference between good and evil. They were naked until they ate the apple then chose to cover themselves up...eating the apple gave them the consciousness to make that decision rather than living in blind ignorance. Ie. They gained free will... Iv debated it with theologians and they've been stumped by it too 

Again it's just a fable but still, its a very badly invented one. 

But if people choose to believe it that's groovy,just don't expect everyone else to or even dare claim publicly its fact, cos you'll be torn open for it because it doesn't make sense. 

God however is open for debate cos it could be true (or false), I just ain't taking that leap


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## grannybonger (Oct 11, 2011)

The opium was so good then and they had no tv so just out of plain human suffering they created gods. The rest is money.


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## Harrekin (Oct 11, 2011)

grannybonger said:


> The opium was so good then and they had no tv so just out of plain human suffering they created gods. The rest is money.


Agreed on the money thing, I'm just waiting for the various doctrines to start being considered businesses, I can't understand how they arnt already to be honest. 

Case in point being the Vatican...talk about the extremely flash HQ of an international money making machine!


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## grannybonger (Oct 11, 2011)

If I may add, there is no God, otherwise we wouldn't be here, he/she would have extinguished us when he/she had the chance. Humans are just plain, wrong for this world/universe.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 11, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> how is it seriousley possible people believe in gods without evidence , anything else in life requires evidence, to believe its true , yet when it comes to believing in a god , stupid people disregard this vital point , why is this ? its truly shocking


People believe in time travel without evidence. People are just dumb.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 11, 2011)

Hey! What happened to OP Sativa? I haven't seen him post since his vessel was hit by a Glacier a few days ago. I hope he survived...


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> Hey! What happened to OP Sativa? I haven't seen him post since his vessel was hit by a Glacier a few days ago. I hope he survived...


He managed to escape, he's trapped in an ice cave now. He's hanging out with the polar bears that shit on him. But he will be back soon, no doubt about that.


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## cannabineer (Oct 11, 2011)

ew. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

grannybonger said:


> If I may add, there is no God, otherwise we wouldn't be here, he/she would have extinguished us when he/she had the chance. Humans are just plain, wrong for this world/universe.


How do you know he didn't want us to be destructive monsters?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> People believe in time travel without evidence. People are just dumb.


Says the guy that says time isn't a real thing.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> How do you know he didn't want us to be destructive monsters?


Because if he banished Satan, why has he kept us?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Says the guy that says time isn't a real thing.


Time isn't real.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Because if he banished Satan, why has he kept us?


He says there is no god. So who said I was basing my post off a religion?
Not every religion has a Satan. So ignoring religion and focusing on a god alone my question goes unanswered and always will be. 

In other words this guy doesn't believe in religion, so why is he assuming god isn't real because god wouldn't want us?


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Time isn't real.


Where's your proof? Oh look you have no proof, just like religious people. So why do you call religious people dumb when you're no different? I guess you might think of yourself as dumb, in that case I guess you can call religious people dumb. If you don't think you're dumb then you're a hypocrite.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> He says there is no god. So who said I was basing my post off a religion?
> Not every religion has a Satan. So ignoring religion and focusing on a god alone my question goes unanswered and always will be.
> 
> In other words this guy doesn't believe in religion, so why is he assuming god isn't real because god wouldn't want us?


I believe god is real and not real(not conscious), and he doesn't even know we exist.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Where's your proof? Oh look you have no proof, just like religious people. So why do you call religious people dumb when you're no different? I guess you might think of yourself as dumb, in that case I guess you can call religious people dumb. If you don't think you're dumb then you're a hypocrite.


I've given proof over and over. If you didn't read it, I'm sorry.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I believe god is real and not real(not conscious), and he doesn't even know we exist.


Ok but ignoring your beliefs, ignoring everyone's beliefs, who's to say god doesn't want us to be destructive monsters?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I've given proof over and over. If you didn't read it, I'm sorry.


I'm sorry I didn't see your proof. Besides like you any religious person can say they have proof, it doesn't mean it's legitimate proof. 
If you have proof that time doesn't exist then you should be a millionaire for proving time is an illusion only. So your proof is nothing, at least no more legitimate than a religious persons "proof" of god.


----------



## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ok but ignoring your beliefs, ignoring everyone's beliefs, who's to say god doesn't want us to be destructive monsters?


Christians. They say he banished the Devil. I know that's not _your_ belief, but it is theirs. And mine (that he doesn't want us to be monsters, or is not conscious of us). And some other religions.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm sorry I didn't see your proof. Besides like you any religious person can say they have proof, it doesn't mean it's legitimate proof.
> If you have proof that time doesn't exist then you should be a millionaire for proving time is an illusion only. So your proof is nothing, at least no more legitimate than a religious persons "proof" of god.


Time is just a measurement of deterioration and light movement. And there is a chemical on our cells, and an enzyme on our DNA that causes us to age when we get older. Time is just a measurement this thing we call "years" or "age" and the movement of the sun, and earth.


----------



## cannabineer (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> ... then you should be a millionaire for proving time is an illusion only...


Time = money, so ... no. cn


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

There's more evidence that aliens came to the planet and screwed around with our DNA to create us from basicly monkeys (wonder why there's a link missing... hmmmmmm...) than there is of a singular God, all u have to do is look at the most ancient of creation stories, the Sumerian creation story, which the Christian Bible takes most of its accounts of the creation of man, not only that but the word for God in the original writings is actually plural, but translation from language to language has dropped it, so basicly even the Christian Bible says theirs more than one God if read correctly, and u should find that interesting since almost every ancient and even most religions today still believe in multiple gods.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

grannybonger said:


> If I may add, there is no God, otherwise we wouldn't be here, he/she would have extinguished us when he/she had the chance. Humans are just plain, wrong for this world/universe.


Check this out finshaggy, he doesn't state a specific religion. So let's say there's no religions, no Satan. Why is this guy saying god would have gotten rid of us because god wouldn't want us evil people? It doesn't make sense, he doesn't know what god wants nor is he basing his thoughts off any specific religion.


The only way for his post to make sense is by putting "using Christian logic....". Then he would be saying using Christian logic god isn't real because he would have gotten rid of us already. But he didn't, so again, how does he know that a god doesn't want us to be destructive monsters?


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Time is just a measurement of deterioration and light movement. And there is a chemical on our cells, and an enzyme on our DNA that causes us to age when we get older. Time is just a measurement this thing we call "years" or "age" and the movement of the sun, and earth.


Exactly... Time is a measurement, it's not unreal. Trying to prove time isn't real is just like trying to prove god is real.
And are you saying that since we age that is enough proof that time doesn't exist?


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## RollMeOne420 (Oct 12, 2011)

the universe was created by[video=youtube;hE_OehRLH3s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE_OehRLH3s[/video]


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Christians. They say he banished the Devil. I know that's not _your_ belief, but it is theirs. And mine (that he doesn't want us to be monsters, or is not conscious of us). And some other religions.


That is my belief by the way, ha.
But grannybonger wasn't referring to a specific religion. So using his logic I came up with my question, a question that nobody could answer.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Time is just a measurement of deterioration and light movement. And there is a chemical on our cells, and an enzyme on our DNA that causes us to age when we get older. Time is just a measurement this thing we call "years" or "age" and the movement of the sun, and earth.


that measurement of deterioration and light movement got a name....time lol



tyler.durden said:


> Hey! What happened to OP Sativa? I haven't seen him post since his vessel was hit by a Glacier a few days ago. I hope he survived...


he sensed the massacre comin so he joasted lol


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## anymouse (Oct 12, 2011)

Religious people are trained that way from birth. Once you're inside that delusion it is very hard to get out because you would have to use critical thinking and be honest with yourself.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> There's more evidence that aliens came to the planet and screwed around with our DNA to create us from basicly monkeys (wonder why there's a link missing... hmmmmmm...) than there is of a singular God, all u have to do is look at the most ancient of creation stories, the Sumerian creation story, which the Christian Bible takes most of its accounts of the creation of man, not only that but the word for God in the original writings is actually plural, but translation from language to language has dropped it, so basicly even the Christian Bible says theirs more than one God if read correctly, and u should find that interesting since almost every ancient and even most religions today still believe in multiple gods.


Lol Christianity is like the target of attacks on religious people.
But how is there more proof of aliens just because the ancient people wrote it on their walls? That's not proof at all, that's like saying the bible is proof. Your post makes no sense, you claim Christianity is false by saying another religion is real, while saying because the Sumerians had proof and Christians don't.

So I'm gonna go carve drawings on cave walls of a eighteen headed gorilla, so that way hundreds of years from now people will be like, "oh man that's hard evidence".
Bah humbug to your post good sir.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

anymouse said:


> Religious people are trained that way from birth. Once you're inside that delusion it is very hard to get out because you would have to use critical thinking and be honest with yourself.


i really feel tho that people at a certain point in there life think about shit logically for a little bit when they're gettin older. some of them choose to listen to it, but most dont or try not to think about it that much until faith catches you.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

anymouse said:


> Religious people are trained that way from birth. Once you're inside that delusion it is very hard to get out because you would have to use critical thinking and be honest with yourself.


Really? Because I was older (not a kid) when I started thinking about religion. I think rationally everyday, I question my beliefs, so why do you group all religious people together and say we are all delusional people? Many of us religious people think just as rationally as you.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol Christianity is like the target of attacks on religious people.
> But how is there more proof of aliens just because the ancient people wrote it on their walls? That's not proof at all, that's like saying the bible is proof. Your post makes no sense, you claim Christianity is false by saying another religion is real, while saying because the Sumerians had proof and Christians don't.
> 
> So I'm gonna go carve drawings on cave walls of a eighteen headed gorilla, so that way hundreds of years from now people will be like, "oh man that's hard evidence".
> Bah humbug to your post good sir.


bro im fixin to blow your mind with evidence of how thats more realistic than any religions.....ima have to dig for some videos


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i really feel tho that people at a certain point in there life think about shit logically for a little bit when they're gettin older. some of them choose to listen to it, but most dont or try not to think about it that much until faith catches you.


Lol, I think pretty logically bro, .


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Check this out finshaggy, he doesn't state a specific religion. So let's say there's no religions, no Satan. Why is this guy saying god would have gotten rid of us because god wouldn't want us evil people? It doesn't make sense, he doesn't know what god wants nor is he basing his thoughts off any specific religion.
> 
> 
> The only way for his post to make sense is by putting "using Christian logic....". Then he would be saying using Christian logic god isn't real because he would have gotten rid of us already. But he didn't, so again, how does he know that a god doesn't want us to be destructive monsters?


Ok... Let;s say there is zero religion. God is the sun and earth. The direct things we see providing for us (I can describe god from a non religious aspect a lot better if you want). "God" doesn't want the "evil us" which is pollution, murder, weapons, all these things clouding and destroying the provider "god" would wipe us out. Weather or not we believe in "god" something is going to happen. There's always a bigger fish. And humans have been the biggest for too damn long.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Exactly... Time is a measurement, it's not unreal. Trying to prove time isn't real is just like trying to prove god is real.
> And are you saying that since we age that is enough proof that time doesn't exist?


No, because time is simply a measurement of that aging process and the movement of the sun and earth. "Time" is not a "real" thing.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> that measurement of deterioration and light movement got a name....time lol
> 
> 
> 
> he sensed the massacre comin so he joasted lol


EXACTLY. Time is nothing more than a measurement. It is not a real thing to be moved about in.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Ok... Let;s say there is zero religion. God is the sun and earth. The direct things we see providing for us (I can describe god from a non religious aspect a lot better if you want). "God" doesn't want the "evil us" which is pollution, murder, weapons, all these things clouding and destroying the provider "god" would wipe us out. Weather or not we believe in "god" something is going to happen. There's always a bigger fish. And humans have been the biggest for too damn long.


And added to this. Even if something bigger doesn't come along, we don't know what our new electromagnetic fields that we created in the past 100 years will do, as a thin layer over most of the earth. The earth is bound to destroy us all by itself with natural disaster.


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## Harrekin (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Time isn't real.


Time is real you mad thing, extreme gravity distorts time, thus proving it's existence


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol, I think pretty logically bro, .


you're in a odd class dude i really wouldnt even call you a christian. you believe in god and think jesus was a good dude to learn morals off of right? so its not a suprise you think logically about this shit i done talk to you enough to know that lol

this is a long vid but every one they show is interestin as fuck it even has a christian one in it, but the video is all about aliens and sacred places on earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElsLeeC6thE

with the level of knowledge our ancestors knew about objects that are normal to us like planes was nothin its not hard to think they saw shit like that and some kinda being flyin it that it had to be gods. then basically the same accounts are bein written down across the world when those different civilizations had no means to talk to one another?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Ok... Let;s say there is zero religion. God is the sun and earth. The direct things we see providing for us (I can describe god from a non religious aspect a lot better if you want). "God" doesn't want the "evil us" which is pollution, murder, weapons, all these things clouding and destroying the provider "god" would wipe us out. Weather or not we believe in "god" something is going to happen. There's always a bigger fish. And humans have been the biggest for too damn long.


Alright there you go with another belief. That's your belief, I'm saying how does he know his belief is right? He believes since he's right then god doesn't exist. I'm saying how does he know what god wants. Know it's getting confusing, so I'm gonna switch the argument on you, lol.
How do you know god doesn't want us to be destructive monsters?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> EXACTLY. Time is nothing more than a measurement. It is not a real thing to be moved about in.


you know how high your iq is?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> EXACTLY. Time is nothing more than a measurement. It is not a real thing to be moved about in.


So you're trying to prove something isn't a real thing? If you can pull that off then it turns out the majority of atheists are no better than religious people. Because if you can prove time isn't real then all along atheist believed in something that wasn't real, lol, just like they think religious people believe in something that's not real.

I think finshaggy is saying like you can grab dirt, sit on a sofa, capture gases. But can you grab time, sit on time, or capture time? I think he's saying using that logic time doesn't exist.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright there you go with another belief. That's your belief, I'm saying how does he know his belief is right? He believes since he's right then god doesn't exist. I'm saying how does he know what god wants. Know it's getting confusing, so I'm gonna switch the argument on you, lol.
> How do you know god doesn't want us to be destructive monsters?


NOOO. The earth IS going to kill us if we continue exactly how we are. There is no way we survive like this. It is not just my belief.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> you know how high your iq is?


I was only tested in 5th grade. But a couple points from genius.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So you're trying to prove something isn't a real thing? If you can pull that off then it turns out the majority of atheists are no better than religious people. Because if you can prove time isn't real then all along atheist believed in something that wasn't real, lol, just like they think religious people believe in something that's not real.
> 
> I think finshaggy is saying like you can grab dirt, sit on a sofa, capture gases. But can you grab time, sit on time, or capture time? I think he's saying using that logic time doesn't exist.


KINDA. 
The way that we understand time, it CAN be reversed, CAN be fast forwarded, we can do these things to it, and travel this way within it. The way I am proposing it. NO WE CAN'T.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

I will also explain god for you to make it more understandable to understand how I understand god doesn't want us to be monsters.

Each person, animal, bug, plant, bacteria. Is an organ within a cell.
Each group of these people, animals, bugs, etc. Comes together to make a cell.
These groups all come together to form ecosystems. These are like tissue.
The planets and the solar system is like organs.
The galaxies are like organ systems.
And god is EVERYTHING. Like we are a makeup of these things. "God made us in his own image".

Everything you do, is god. Everything that god is, is effected by everything we do. God is a everything, and everywhere. And if you burn too much, there is no more creation.
We are not to be pure destruction. Destruction is a very important part, and the monsters are necessary. But "he" does not "want" us to be "monsters".


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

anymouse said:


> Religious people are trained that way from birth. Once you're inside that delusion it is very hard to get out because you would have to use critical thinking and be honest with yourself.


This is so true when u go to church and you've got a 6 ye old they usually go to Sunday school while your in the main hall with the grown ups, in Sunday school they are saying from r young age o Jesus loves u so u should love him, and do activities relating to whatever they are doing, while too young to actually comprehend the story or wats going on they are pretty Much brainwashed into " loving him" as he "loves you". In my opinion children shouldn't be allowed in church h untilled they are old enough to comprehend the story and make the choice for themselves sheathed they wanna believe or not, and point in being for all u Christian believers that say u have to go, God doesn't judge you on your faith but how u live your life... and I'm pretty sure it says in the Bible itself to bring God into "your home" and worship him in your own way, not to bring a congragation because your then worshiping him upon others beliefes and thoughts instead of your own... man y'all are brainwashed for sure aha


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol Christianity is like the target of attacks on religious people.
> But how is there more proof of aliens just because the ancient people wrote it on their walls? That's not proof at all, that's like saying the bible is proof. Your post makes no sense, you claim Christianity is false by saying another religion is real, while saying because the Sumerians had proof and Christians don't.
> 
> So I'm gonna go carve drawings on cave walls of a eighteen headed gorilla, so that way hundreds of years from now people will be like, "oh man that's hard evidence".
> Bah humbug to your post good sir.


Lol u needa do history research, its not just 1 ancient people that have that story, the Egyptians, Greeks Romans Hopi Indian along with ajmost all native american tribes , Mayans Aztecs, they all have the same story, slight differences but if u really look at it.. all the same, Christianity gets such a bad rap cuz Christianity has brought more violence and hanus crimes to this world than any other religion put together, more murders n killings than any other religion put together all in the name of God and Jesus christ... again no your history ( not the bullshit they teach u in school, like Christopher Columbia discovered the Americas)


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> you're in a odd class dude i really wouldnt even call you a christian. you believe in god and think jesus was a good dude to learn morals off of right? so its not a suprise you think logically about this shit i done talk to you enough to know that lol
> 
> this is a long vid but every one they show is interestin as fuck it even has a christian one in it, but the video is all about aliens and sacred places on earth.
> 
> ...


Yup, my mind was just blown, lol.
Pretty awesome video dude. But the problem I see with it is that our ancestors called them angels, angels that helped them worship god. Obviously our ancestors knew more about angels or other unknown forces then we do today. My problem is that those archeologist are selfish enough to say our ancestors didn't know what they were talking about when they said they were angels. The archeologist say they weren't angels but ET beings, how can they be so ignorant to what our ancestors were trying to tell us. Honestly all this does is further my belief in god. The archeologist are a bunch of skeptics that aren't open minded enough to believe what the ancestors said about them being angels. I mean our ancestors drew the angels, and the angels looked very human not like some weird creature. And why do the archeologist automatically assume angels didn't have badass space crafts? I know that sounds crazy but we are talking about religion here, lol. 

I'm saying what if what our ancestors were telling the truth and the archeologists are leading us astray from the truth? I would rather believe our ancestors that had alot more experience than our modern day archeologist that don't know shit. 

But still awesome video, and I love seeing videos that leave more questions than answers.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I will also explain god for you to make it more understandable to understand how I understand god doesn't want us to be monsters.
> 
> Each person, animal, bug, plant, bacteria. Is an organ within a cell.
> Each group of these people, animals, bugs, etc. Comes together to make a cell.
> ...


Hmm... I see where you're coming from and have no argument with you anymore. However I still want my unanswered question answered using that other guys beliefs.
Using your beliefs my question was answered, so thanks.


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

And about that drawing your gunna do.. are u really going to do it?? I think not, ancient people drew what they saw, that's it they had no explination for what was going on but they drew it to the best of their abilities, they didn't bother with stupid shit like drawing for the fun of it, how cab I come to this conclusion, simple u made a claims to draw something on a wall but I doubt u will do it cuz its of no value of your time, now if u were out in the middle of a Forrest n being chased by something n u got away then yeah you'd have something important to draw wouldn't u, simply human psychology, if it doesn't effect u in anyway than your not gunna bother with it


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Hmm... I see where you're coming from and have no argument with you anymore. However I still want my unanswered question answered using that other guys beliefs.
> Using your beliefs my question was answered, so thanks.


That's not just my beliefs. That's the universe, that's what IS. Weather you call it god, or a funnel effect. It's real.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> This is so true when u go to church and you've got a 6 ye old they usually go to Sunday school while your in the main hall with the grown ups, in Sunday school they are saying from r young age o Jesus loves u so u should love him, and do activities relating to whatever they are doing, while too young to actually comprehend the story or wats going on they are pretty Much brainwashed into " loving him" as he "loves you". In my opinion children shouldn't be allowed in church h untilled they are old enough to comprehend the story and make the choice for themselves sheathed they wanna believe or not, and point in being for all u Christian believers that say u have to go, God doesn't judge you on your faith but how u live your life... and I'm pretty sure it says in the Bible itself to bring God into "your home" and worship him in your own way, not to bring a congragation because your then worshiping him upon others beliefes and thoughts instead of your own... man y'all are brainwashed for sure aha


Who's y'all? It better not be every religious person, or even every Christian. I know plenty of Christians that follow the same logic I do. The main thing I follow is to "bare good fruit", that's what I follow the most. And I wasn't taught religion as a young kid nor do I go to church. I follow god my way, so please be more specific when you say y'all.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Hmm... I see where you're coming from and have no argument with you anymore. However I still want my unanswered question answered using that other guys beliefs.
> Using your beliefs my question was answered, so thanks.


Where did he write his beliefs?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> That's not just my beliefs. That's the universe, that's what IS. Weather you call it god, or a funnel effect. It's real.


.... So you believe...

I mean I can say god is the sphagetti flying monster, it doesn't mean that's what it is.

Are you trying to say the world is god? If that's what you're saying then don't say it's god, say it's nature.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Where did he write his beliefs?


He's suggesting that god is a being that would have wiped us out for being bad, but since he didn't wipe us out he doesn't exist.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> And about that drawing your gunna do.. are u really going to do it?? I think not, ancient people drew what they saw, that's it they had no explination for what was going on but they drew it to the best of their abilities, they didn't bother with stupid shit like drawing for the fun of it, how cab I come to this conclusion, simple u made a claims to draw something on a wall but I doubt u will do it cuz its of no value of your time, now if u were out in the middle of a Forrest n being chased by something n u got away then yeah you'd have something important to draw wouldn't u, simply human psychology, if it doesn't effect u in anyway than your not gunna bother with it


In other words, you can't take a joke.


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Now there another qote God made us in his own image again reading it proporly from the Christian Bible it says gods created us in their own image. Ever think that it might be literal, we go from monkey to human almost instantly without any link, hence the missing link, now in the creation story ( Sumerian and many others alike) they said beings came from the sky and made us from the species already living here(monkey ape whatever) so here we have humans, now u find evidence of mating between humans and these other beings creating what we call demigods, Jesus would be 1 of these, Hercules is another well known and there are many others, even the Christian Bible states angels thought human women to be beautifully and had sexual relations with them. There's all kinds of proof around u u just need to open hour eyes n look at the bigger picture or all the story's as a whole instead of just listening to one story. Police work dude, cops don't just ask 1 whiteness for all the details but take details from every one they possibly can to get the right picture


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> Lol u needa do history research, its not just 1 ancient people that have that story, the Egyptians, Greeks Romans Hopi Indian along with ajmost all native american tribes , Mayans Aztecs, they all have the same story, slight differences but if u really look at it.. all the same, Christianity gets such a bad rap cuz Christianity has brought more violence and hanus crimes to this world than any other religion put together, more murders n killings than any other religion put together all in the name of God and Jesus christ... again no your history ( not the bullshit they teach u in school, like Christopher Columbia discovered the Americas)


Alright I see my post offended you a great deal, I'm sorry lol.

They do have alot of proof, but guess what.
So do Christians if you want to use the drawings and old buildings.
Watch that video blazinkill posted, you will see a Christian religion built buildings that are unexplainable, and they made carvings showing what they say. So why use your argument about saying Christianity doesn't have more proof than the summerians, they had equal proof. They both made drawings and built unbelievable buildings.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> .... So you believe...
> 
> I mean I can say god is the sphagetti flying monster, it doesn't mean that's what it is.
> 
> Are you trying to say the world is god? If that's what you're saying then don't say it's god, say it's nature.


No. Everything is god, to me. But everything is SOMETHING together, weather or not you want to call it god. You may call it the "universe" or you may have your own idea. But it is real.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> Now there another qote God made us in his own image again reading it proporly from the Christian Bible it says gods created us in their own image. Ever think that it might be literal, we go from monkey to human almost instantly without any link, hence the missing link, now in the creation story ( Sumerian and many others alike) they said beings came from the sky and made us from the species already living here(monkey ape whatever) so here we have humans, now u find evidence of mating between humans and these other beings creating what we call demigods, Jesus would be 1 of these, Hercules is another well known and there are many others, even the Christian Bible states angels thought human women to be beautifully and had sexual relations with them. There's all kinds of proof around u u just need to open hour eyes n look at the bigger picture or all the story's as a whole instead of just listening to one story. Police work dude, cops don't just ask 1 whiteness for all the details but take details from every one they possibly can to get the right picture


I see the huge picture dude. I was joking when I said all they have is drawings. Jeez, Christians have the same proof. Why are you talking about how people came about? I never said they came about a certain way, I never said anything about evolution. But cool insight, it makes alot of sense (no sarcasm).


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> No. Everything is god, to me. But everything is SOMETHING together, weather or not you want to call it god. You may call it the "universe" or you may have your own idea. But it is real.


Lol I know the universe is real, but how is that relevant to what we are discussing?


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Yup, my mind was just blown, lol.
> Pretty awesome video dude. But the problem I see with it is that our ancestors called them angels, angels that helped them worship god. Obviously our ancestors knew more about angels or other unknown forces then we do today. My problem is that those archeologist are selfish enough to say our ancestors didn't know what they were talking about when they said they were angels. The archeologist say they weren't angels but ET beings, how can they be so ignorant to what our ancestors were trying to tell us. Honestly all this does is further my belief in god. The archeologist are a bunch of skeptics that aren't open minded enough to believe what the ancestors said about them being angels. I mean our ancestors drew the angels, and the angels looked very human not like some weird creature. And why do the archeologist automatically assume angels didn't have badass space crafts? I know that sounds crazy but we are talking about religion here, lol.
> 
> I'm saying what if what our ancestors were telling the truth and the archeologists are leading us astray from the truth? I would rather believe our ancestors that had alot more experience than our modern day archeologist that don't know shit.
> ...


In ww2 we used an island and a landing strip, the inhabitance had never seen modern man and n airplane, when we wee there we gave them food and supplies to keep them happy then we packed up and left, they were building mock airplanes Outa draw and grass praying to them that their gods would come back and shower them with gifts, this is only 60 yrs ago people, and they thought Americans and a b-52 bomber were gods... ancient man seeing a spaceship would do the same damn thing... and they did hence why we have all these drawings and storys. Logic....


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> He's suggesting that god is a being that would have wiped us out for being bad, but since he didn't wipe us out he doesn't exist.


Well he is right in his end result. But wrong in his logic. God does not exist as a "being". But it's not simply because he hasn't wiped us out. What if god is murder? or death? or life? And we just haven't discovered that. What if he is nothing? I mean, god is just a word to describe something we can't understand. God is real, because the word "god" is just a confusing way to describe "everything" in most religions.


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Remember its alot Easier to controlle a dumb or misled public than a public that really knows what's going on


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## RawBudzski (Oct 12, 2011)

Sad more people do not think in such a manner. 


germania420 said:


> In ww2 we used an island and a landing strip, the inhabitance had never seen modern man and n airplane, when we wee there we gave them food and supplies to keep them happy then we packed up and left, they were building mock airplanes Outa draw and grass praying to them that their gods would come back and shower them with gifts, this is only 60 yrs ago people, and they thought Americans and a b-52 bomber were gods... ancient man seeing a spaceship would do the same damn thing... and they did hence why we have all these drawings and storys. Logic....


What you or your religion considers God is one big misunderstanding, regardless of what happened.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> Now there another qote God made us in his own image again reading it proporly from the Christian Bible it says gods created us in their own image. Ever think that it might be literal, we go from monkey to human almost instantly without any link, hence the missing link, now in the creation story ( Sumerian and many others alike) they said beings came from the sky and made us from the species already living here(monkey ape whatever) so here we have humans, now u find evidence of mating between humans and these other beings creating what we call demigods, Jesus would be 1 of these, Hercules is another well known and there are many others, even the Christian Bible states angels thought human women to be beautifully and had sexual relations with them. There's all kinds of proof around u u just need to open hour eyes n look at the bigger picture or all the story's as a whole instead of just listening to one story. Police work dude, cops don't just ask 1 whiteness for all the details but take details from every one they possibly can to get the right picture


I'm not Christian, if that is what you are assuming. That is my description of "Almighty God". My gods are Pan Shiva Agni Ra-Atum and Mut. My "Almighty god" is just a description of the universe working together. Your aliens fucking our ancestors thing is possible, but THAT is a weird interpretation of the bible. What I was doing was not "interpreting the bible wrong" that was just my own thinking.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol I know the universe is real, but how is that relevant to what we are discussing?


Because the thing I called "God" can literally be translated to "The universe".


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## RawBudzski (Oct 12, 2011)

I think "aliens" existing & manipulating the human species for whatever reasons is more likely than a God.. if not, more believable.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> In ww2 we used an island and a landing strip, the inhabitance had never seen modern man and n airplane, when we wee there we gave them food and supplies to keep them happy then we packed up and left, they were building mock airplanes Outa draw and grass praying to them that their gods would come back and shower them with gifts, this is only 60 yrs ago people, and they thought Americans and a b-52 bomber were gods... ancient man seeing a spaceship would do the same damn thing... and they did hence why we have all these drawings and storys. Logic....


So you guys let them worship y'all and let them believe y'all were gods? Man that's fucked up lol.

Besides you didn't come down from "the heavens" to help build unbelievable buildings for these people.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I think "aliens" existing & manipulating the human species for whatever reasons is more likely than a God.. if not, more believable.


God in most Pagan ways is just an observation of what ACTUALLY happens in nature, and the sky. The alien thing is just assumptions. Most "gods" are real.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 12, 2011)

What? All pegans aside now what.. over 100 billion billion planets estimated in the universe & life is an assumption?



Finshaggy said:


> God in most Pagan ways is just an observation of what ACTUALLY happens in nature, and the sky. The alien thing is just assumptions. Most "gods" are real.


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I see the huge picture dude. I was joking when I said all they have is drawings. Jeez, Christians have the same proof. Why are you talking about how people came about? I never said they came about a certain way, I never said anything about evolution. But cool insight, it makes alot of se]
> well I think wat what point is is were talking about God, I think ancient people mistook more advance beings as being god and that's why we get the whole God created man in his image, but I think that God is litterally a higher being or energy force we are not able to I donno see hear feel, but as a scociety we think as God as our literal creators, as in God made us human not these higher beings ancients are talking about


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Well he is right in his end result. But wrong in his logic. God does not exist as a "being". But it's not simply because he hasn't wiped us out. What if god is murder? or death? or life? And we just haven't discovered that. What if he is nothing? I mean, god is just a word to describe something we can't understand. God is real, because the word "god" is just a confusing way to describe "everything" in most religions.


Within this post^^^ me and you are on the same page. So I would like to acknowledge that. 

But it also brings up another argument that god does not mean everything. But that is a whole other argument and it would not be suitable for this thread. If you wish I will debate about that over another thread specifically made for your belief or over pm. But our beliefs about what god is has nothing to do with this thread.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I think "aliens" existing & manipulating the human species for whatever reasons is more likely than a God.. if not, more believable.


They called these aliens angels. Why would they call them angels and not acknowledge them as other worldly beings?


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## RawBudzski (Oct 12, 2011)

Imagine how the worlds top scientists feel about the rest of the population.. probably feels hopeless.. 


germania420 said:


> Hepheastus420 said:
> 
> 
> > I see the huge picture dude. I was joking when I said all they have is drawings. Jeez, Christians have the same proof. Why are you talking about how people came about? I never said they came about a certain way, I never said anything about evolution. But cool insight, it makes alot of se]
> > well I think wat what point is is were talking about God, I think ancient people mistook more advance beings as being god and that's why we get the whole God created man in his image, but I think that God is litterally a higher being or energy force we are not able to I donno see hear feel, but as a scociety we think as God as our literal creators, as in God made us human not these higher beings ancients are talking about


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## RawBudzski (Oct 12, 2011)

Huh?! Who called them angels... ? some called them monsters, some called them gods, & some called them faeries... who cares.. ?


Hepheastus420 said:


> They called these aliens angels. Why would they call them angels and not acknowledge them as other worldly beings?


you refer to christianity as if it is correct or has any more legitimacy than any other religions/cultures.. Christianity is as confused/wrong as the next religion


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> Hepheastus420 said:
> 
> 
> > I see the huge picture dude. I was joking when I said all they have is drawings. Jeez, Christians have the same proof. Why are you talking about how people came about? I never said they came about a certain way, I never said anything about evolution. But cool insight, it makes alot of se]
> ...


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Huh?! Who called them angels... ? some called them monsters, some called them gods, & some called them faeries... who cares.. ?


Don't forget some called them aliens. So how can anyone scoff at the idea of them being angels, gods, fairies, or monsters and then say they were aliens? It doesn't make sense.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Within this post^^^ me and you are on the same page. So I would like to acknowledge that.
> 
> But it also brings up another argument that god does not mean everything. But that is a whole other argument and it would not be suitable for this thread. If you wish I will debate about that over another thread specifically made for your belief or over pm. But our beliefs about what god is has nothing to do with this thread.


This thread was troll bait to begin with. If you can have a constructive conversation then go for it. You might be a little less confused if you think of pantheism as atheism dressed up with a lot of euphemistic terms and unnecessary nuance. Most of the world follows a religion which believes in a specific god who takes personal interest in your life and answers prayers. Best not to get the two confused.


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So you guys let them worship y'all and let them believe y'all were gods? Man that's fucked up lol.
> 
> Besides you didn't come down from "the heavens" to help build unbelievable buildings for these people.


No we didn't and even with today's technology we can't build to the presicion in stone as they di 5000 yrs ago, thy had a higher technology to help for sure. Lol I donno about letting them worship us but it wasvan effect that happened, yes we did come from the sky hello I said langing strips and airplanes not submarines lol


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## RawBudzski (Oct 12, 2011)

Are you serious? An advanced civilization making contact with earth would be able to persuade 90% of our population they are "god"... & that is today.. imagine ancient man.


Hepheastus420 said:


> germania420 said:
> 
> 
> > What put it in their minds that these aliens were our creators? The only explanation for that is that one alien was fucking around and was like "I am your father", lol.


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Just look at the faces on Mars, NASA has found multiple faces and sites that exactly resemble the pryamids of Giza in size and shape and positioning, ( positioned in alignement with Orion's belt, now hoe do we have real human like faces on meds and besicly the pyramids of Giza on Mars without there being somekind of intelligent life to build it? These shapes are known not to exist naturally in nature and the probability of something coming even close to resembling let alone be almost exact is like 1 to well the odd are too high to type,( its like 90000 nines) so to have a planet that is within what we call the golden zone for life and to have humanlike structure on it is evidence enough for me that there's intelligent life out there, besides that NASA has already concluded there's life besides our planet,


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Are you serious? An advanced civilization making contact with earth would be able to persuade 90% of our population they are "god"... & that is today.. imagine ancient man.
> That's what I'm saying. The aliens told us they are our creators, so atheists are calling these aliens liars while religious people believe they are telling the truth.
> 
> Who gets to say aliens weren't gods? Our ancestors had way more experience with them than we did, so I believe our ancestors more when they say they were our creators.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> Just look at the faces on Mars, NASA has found multiple faces and sites that exactly resemble the pryamids of Giza in size and shape and positioning, ( positioned in alignement with Orion's belt, now hoe do we have real human like faces on meds and besicly the pyramids of Giza on Mars without there being somekind of intelligent life to build it? These shapes are known not to exist naturally in nature and the probability of something coming even close to resembling let alone be almost exact is like 1 to well the odd are too high to type,( its like 90000 nines) so to have a planet that is within what we call the golden zone for life and to have humanlike structure on it is evidence enough for me that there's intelligent life out there, besides that NASA has already concluded there's life besides our planet,


who said there wasn't a higher being? I'm acknowledging there's a higher being that built these pyramids. The argument between us is that I believe they were angels and you believe they were aliens.


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Are you serious? An advanced civilization making contact with earth would be able to persuade 90% of our population they are "god"... & that is today.. imagine ancient man.
> That surly isn't a quote from me so why is it under my name...


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## RawBudzski (Oct 12, 2011)

I am confused.. .  Depending on the definition of "god" they could be. I believe "our" ancestors when they say we were manipulated as well.  Though, as I said I would belive it was by an Alien before the almighty god from the king james bible. <3


Hepheastus420 said:


> RawBudzski said:
> 
> 
> > Are you serious? An advanced civilization making contact with earth would be able to persuade 90% of our population they are "god"... & that is today.. imagine ancient man.
> ...


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I am confused.. .  Depending on the definition of "god" they could be. I believe "our" ancestors when they say we were manipulated as well.  Though, as I said I would belive it was by an Alien before the almighty god from the king james bible. <3
> So the only difference is that I believe they were angels and you believe they were aliens. Have you ever thought that either way they are the same thing? That's what I think at least, but then again IDK anything.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> RawBudzski said:
> 
> 
> > Are you serious? An advanced civilization making contact with earth would be able to persuade 90% of our population they are "god"... & that is today.. imagine ancient man.
> ...


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> RawBudzski said:
> 
> 
> > Are you serious? An advanced civilization making contact with earth would be able to persuade 90% of our population they are "god"... & that is today.. imagine ancient man.
> ...


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> germania420 said:
> 
> 
> > Definatly but for now ima go to bed I'm fucken beat
> ...


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Who's y'all? It better not be every religious person, or even every Christian. I know plenty of Christians that follow the same logic I do. The main thing I follow is to "bare good fruit", that's what I follow the most. And I wasn't taught religion as a young kid nor do I go to church. I follow god my way, so please be more specific when you say y'all.


Wen I say y'all I mean rehearsal super crazzy church people who are like all godly o I go to church so I an do nothing wrong trod of y'all, not litterally you u obviously have a mind and use it quite well
I promise no sarcasm in what I say to u lol bit u have to no who I'm talking about I'm sure you've come lacrosse people like that


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Yup, my mind was just blown, lol.
> Pretty awesome video dude. But the problem I see with it is that our ancestors called them angels, angels that helped them worship god. Obviously our ancestors knew more about angels or other unknown forces then we do today. My problem is that those archeologist are selfish enough to say our ancestors didn't know what they were talking about when they said they were angels. The archeologist say they weren't angels but ET beings, how can they be so ignorant to what our ancestors were trying to tell us. Honestly all this does is further my belief in god. The archeologist are a bunch of skeptics that aren't open minded enough to believe what the ancestors said about them being angels. I mean our ancestors drew the angels, and the angels looked very human not like some weird creature. And why do the archeologist automatically assume angels didn't have badass space crafts? I know that sounds crazy but we are talking about religion here, lol.
> 
> I'm saying what if what our ancestors were telling the truth and the archeologists are leading us astray from the truth? I would rather believe our ancestors that had alot more experience than our modern day archeologist that don't know shit.
> ...


i mean it coulda been angels, but why would angels need landin pads and floatin cities in order to come here? wouldnt they just have floated down from the heavens? to me aliens sounds more logical esp if they were seein ships landin and shit they would have to have a way to explain it and it makes alota sense that they would see them as god if the aliens were givin them knowledge and doin shit for them. they said back in the day when the first planes some indians saw thought they were gods and were prayin to them.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> Wen I say y'all I mean rehearsal super crazzy church people who are like all godly o I go to church so I an do nothing wrong trod of y'all, not litterally you u obviously have a mind and use it quite well
> I promise no sarcasm in what I say to u lol bit u have to no who I'm talking about I'm sure you've come lacrosse people like that


Oh yes I have come across many of those people, they annoy me to no end. I was just hoping you weren't like some other people who just flat out think all religious people are stupid, I see you are not like them though, .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i mean it coulda been angels, but why would angels need landin pads and floatin cities in order to come here? wouldnt they just have floated down from the heavens? to me aliens sounds more logical esp if they were seein ships landin and shit they would have to have a way to explain it and it makes alota sense that they would see them as god if the aliens were givin them knowledge and doin shit for them. they said back in the day when the first planes some indians saw thought they were gods and were prayin to them.


In the drawing on one of the pictures the video showed while they were talking about the drawing they drew about the aliens visiting, it showed some lines as though something was shooting up extremely fast and left behind debris and above that it showed a picture of a human with wings. It didn't show a space craft it showed an angel. But it is strange how they drew space crafts and stuff, I'm gonna look into it. What's that show called? The one you posted.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Within this post^^^ me and you are on the same page. So I would like to acknowledge that.
> 
> But it also brings up another argument that god does not mean everything. But that is a whole other argument and it would not be suitable for this thread. If you wish I will debate about that over another thread specifically made for your belief or over pm. But our beliefs about what god is has nothing to do with this thread.


"God" doesn't always mean "Everything" I agree. It is also used tom describe hard to understand things. "Lightning is Zues" "Wilderness is Pan".


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## Heisenberg (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> Just look at the faces on Mars, NASA has found multiple faces and sites that exactly resemble the pryamids of Giza in size and shape and positioning, ( positioned in alignement with Orion's belt, now hoe do we have real human like faces on meds and besicly the pyramids of Giza on Mars without there being somekind of intelligent life to build it? These shapes are known not to exist naturally in nature and the probability of something coming even close to resembling let alone be almost exact is like 1 to well the odd are too high to type,( its like 90000 nines) so to have a planet that is within what we call the golden zone for life and to have humanlike structure on it is evidence enough for me that there's intelligent life out there, besides that NASA has already concluded there's life besides our planet,


What&#8217;s the Truth Behind the Face on Mars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

K u say they drew a human with wings flying up think of it this way birds fly, why? They have wings, now if u were an ancient t man and saw a Guy fly off with a jetpack, what would be your first thought of how he is flying or how are u going to depict a man all of a sudden shooting off the ground, your probably going to draw him with wings to relate thata he was able to fly like a bird. That's my thought, even a little kid would depict it the same way if he had no knowledge of a jetpack, or similar device


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## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> What&#8217;s the Truth Behind the Face on Mars?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia


You needa look up more information on that, u can actually find real NASA officials m workers saying that its real and that when he new higher resolution pics came inthat they had to edit the images cuz it was too real, and that doesn't explain the fact that there's 3 other faces on Mars n not just that sungle location, give little bits of truth to the public and they don't bother reading about the rest


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> K u say they drew a human with wings flying up think of it this way birds fly, why? They have wings, now if u were an ancient t man and saw a Guy fly off with a jetpack, what would be your first thought of how he is flying or how are u going to depict a man all of a sudden shooting off the ground, your probably going to draw him with wings to relate thata he was able to fly like a bird. That's my thought, even a little kid would depict it the same way if he had no knowledge of a jetpack, or similar device


What if they were just depicting it as human like, but it was really some monstrous beast as actually described in the Bible. Angels as humans with wings is a semi new development. "Angels" are _celestial beings_.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> K u say they drew a human with wings flying up think of it this way birds fly, why? They have wings, now if u were an ancient t man and saw a Guy fly off with a jetpack, what would be your first thought of how he is flying or how are u going to depict a man all of a sudden shooting off the ground, your probably going to draw him with wings to relate thata he was able to fly like a bird. That's my thought, even a little kid would depict it the same way if he had no knowledge of a jetpack, or similar device


 I would have drawn a box on his back, not wings lol.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Or fire below him. Or thrust going up. Or something resembling a jet pack making movement.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 12, 2011)

germania420 said:


> You needa look up more information on that, u can actually find real NASA officials m workers saying that its real and that when he new higher resolution pics came inthat they had to edit the images cuz it was too real, and that doesn't explain the fact that there's 3 other faces on Mars n not just that sungle location, give little bits of truth to the public and they don't bother reading about the rest


So you reject that the original image was simply an example of our brains tendency to see faces in random patters, a well documented, well understood, easily demonstrated phenomenon. You also reject the backing evidence for this explanation which clearly shows that a sharper image of the region suggests no face. You instead favor the explanation that an alien race made three faces and NASA had no problem publicizing one of the faces but decided to cover up the other two. Since that time, NASA has apparently regretted their inexplicable decision to release the one photo and so decided to go back to the same area and rephotograph the site, at which point the photographs turned out to be too real so they had to doctor the pictures. To support this explanation you offer some hearsay from some unnamed officials and vague accusations about some shadowy government.

In short, you give no reason for rejecting an explanation which explains all evidence and instead favor one that makes wild unsupported assumptions to reach a predetermined conclusion.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> In the drawing on one of the pictures the video showed while they were talking about the drawing they drew about the aliens visiting, it showed some lines as though something was shooting up extremely fast and left behind debris and above that it showed a picture of a human with wings. It didn't show a space craft it showed an angel. But it is strange how they drew space crafts and stuff, I'm gonna look into it. What's that show called? The one you posted.


i dunno if they had it on that one, but one of the mayan kings on the stone that covers his tomb he's in what looks like a rocketship. look at the little breathin thing in his nose and how he's sittin and what he's holdin in this pic
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_arqueo/tumbapacal01_01.jpg

there is also a christian prophet i cant remember his name, but he's on mentioned once in the bible, but has how own book that they didnt wanna put in i guess and they describe him comin down on a floatin chariot that shook the earth and was loud as hell...FUCK i wish i could remember the name.

anyways that show is called ancient aliens if you have netflix the first two seasons are on it and most are pretty damn good. i have to admit tho they say some shit at times that im like aight dude yall are reachin now. lol they have one that tells how germany was usin alien info to try and win ww2, but we pooped on em before they could do anything with it.



Hepheastus420 said:


> I would have drawn a box on his back, not wings lol.


thats cause you know what a jetpack is. to our ancestors if they saw that it wouldnt make sense how he's able to do that so when they drew it they dont know what a jetpack is but they know what wings are and they connected the dots. or atleast thats my opinion. here is another good one about them comin to america.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tXfoplek28


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i dunno if they had it on that one, but one of the mayan kings on the stone that covers his tomb he's in what looks like a rocketship. look at the little breathin thing in his nose and how he's sittin and what he's holdin in this pic
> http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_arqueo/tumbapacal01_01.jpg
> 
> there is also a christian prophet i cant remember his name, but he's on mentioned once in the bible, but has how own book that they didnt wanna put in i guess and they describe him comin down on a floatin chariot that shook the earth and was loud as hell...FUCK i wish i could remember the name.
> ...


 His name was Enoch


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm pretty sure his book of the bible was part of the NHC, which was found, but never added back into the bible.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

I still say they would have drawn thrust or fire not wings. They knew when they were drawing a buffalo getting shot, what an arrow, and a buffalo, and directional movement were. How come they had to make stuff up when they aliens came?? "Angels" are supposed to be massive celestial beasts, not humans with wings. Read some history, or the bible, not just watch Ancient Aliens. Humans with wings is not a very old idea of angels. And definitely not the original idea of them.


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## ghantron (Oct 12, 2011)

carbon globules found in antarctic asteroid, only can be produce by (for what we know) living organisms, basic cells essentially, but still life, or a by product of it at least


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i dunno if they had it on that one, but one of the mayan kings on the stone that covers his tomb he's in what looks like a rocketship. look at the little breathin thing in his nose and how he's sittin and what he's holdin in this pic
> http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_arqueo/tumbapacal01_01.jpg
> 
> there is also a christian prophet i cant remember his name, but he's on mentioned once in the bible, but has how own book that they didnt wanna put in i guess and they describe him comin down on a floatin chariot that shook the earth and was loud as hell...FUCK i wish i could remember the name.
> ...


Lol, I'm looking at the picture and all I see is some guy sitting on a statue holding a cross type thing. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying I can't see it, lol. Is it on the top or bottom half?

You know how I said they would draw a jetpack? And you said that's because I know how it looks, well why did they draw space crafts and not wings? And why did they draw wings instead of space crafts (unless they actually were angels)? But shaking the earth sounds pretty awesome, hopefully you can remember the name, .

Germany using alien technologies? Sadly, I believe it. I mean I'm a consipiracist (not all jittery and creepy though, lol), and before you mentioned the Germany thing, I had already come across a conspiracy of Germany using alien technology. Go check out nazi UFO's, some crazy shit right there. And that was some years back, who knows what technology we have now, we just aren't allowed to see it. 

You may have answered my questions in the video you posted, but I haven't watched it yet. But I'll watch it in a little while, .


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol, I'm looking at the picture and all I see is some guy sitting on a statue holding a cross type thing. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying I can't see it, lol. Is it on the top or bottom half?


I've seen it. It's the guy that is facing his head up a little. And sitting crouched strangley.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

He's in a cock pit, and there is some sort of thrust below him. And a tip to the rocket, and he is facing up.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Here it is


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

And one of the Mayan rulers was said to be "from the stars", and the tomb he's in is booby trapped and some weird stuff. that may have been his tomb lid, I think he was a different one though. He was said to be 9ft tall or something like that though too.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> His name was Enoch


Oh ok, nevermind blazinkill of when I said I hope you can remember, lol.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Space ship, Oxygen, Fire, Smoke, Cone top, Chair, Controls.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Oh ok, nevermind blazinkill of when I said I hope you can remember, lol.


Yeah, it was Enoch. He speaks of living along side giants, and dinosaurs also. IN THE BIBLE.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

And that thing that I now see you were saying looks like "A man holding a cross" . It actually looks like the axle of a car, connected to rudders on the outside. Like look at it.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> View attachment 1832780Space ship, Oxygen, Fire, Smoke, Cone top, Chair, Controls.


Well I see it now, ha. But IDK I'm kinda skeptical of that one, but then again I have seen some drawings where it's no doubt a flying space craft. Crazy stuff, .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

http://www.ancientmysteries.eu/data_bestanden/egypt helicopter/MYSTERY UK.html
Check out this link^^^^. It's not long and boring there's just like five pictures right there that I want to show you.
on the second picture it looks like there's a blimp there too.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Yeah, agreed. There are more detailed things. BUT they did try a lot harder to make it look like someone about to launch in a ship, than they tried to make angels look like jet pack men. Like, the angel thing is an interpretation. This other thing CAN be deducted from the carving. And think, they may have only seen the ship for a week, month, or maybe even just once.


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## TogTokes (Oct 12, 2011)

This post is 100% true. There is no proof whatsoever at anytime in our or anyone elses life there is a actual god with oh so mighty powers enough to create all this we see before us today. A god so powerful he creates dinosaurs and then destroys them only to make the humans we see today. Those drug induced pieces of garbage ripping each others crops and telling fibs on a daily basis.. This is just how life and things go.. Its not magic, it is evolution. 

Now show me one thread of real evidence about any god. I believe mother earth is the higher being, not so much being just higher power. So respect that and you will have a good life.. 


Or you can just go to a church and believe in santa and give your money away and get laughed at by the rest of us.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> http://www.ancientmysteries.eu/data_bestanden/egypt helicopter/MYSTERY UK.html
> Check out this link^^^^. It's not long and boring there's just like five pictures right there that I want to show you.
> on the second picture it looks like there's a blimp there too.


2 and 3 are just like, holy shit. THOSE ARE SHIPS.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

TogTokes said:


> This post is 100% true. There is no proof whatsoever at anytime in our or anyone elses life there is a actual god with oh so mighty powers enough to create all this we see before us today. A god so powerful he creates dinosaurs and then destroys them only to make the humans we see today. Those drug induced pieces of garbage ripping each others crops and telling fibs on a daily basis.. This is just how life and things go.. Its not magic, it is evolution.
> 
> Now show me one thread of real evidence about any god. I believe mother earth is the higher being, not so much being just higher power. So respect that and you will have a good life..
> 
> ...


So..... What does that have to do with anything? You have no proof god doesn't exist, you claim he doesn't exist, where's your proof. I claim I think he exists, I don't need any proof. But if you want to make a claim that he doesn't exist show me the proof.

And you say all this then say to respect mother earth, although she is some powerful being. Prove to me she is a powerful being that can somehow make my life better just by me simply respecting her. 

"or you can go to church and believe in santa and give your money away and get laughed at by the rest of us" <<<< that right there obviously shows you have no idea of religion. You described mainstream religion, you didn't describe every religion. I know plenty of people who follow a religion without help from a church. You have no idea of religion, and I suggest either you do some research or don't post ignorant posts.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 12, 2011)

from elves to jet packs. the OP's threads usually suck the first few pages then go off on good discussions once the OP is gone...


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

TogTokes said:


> This post is 100% true. There is no proof whatsoever at anytime in our or anyone elses life there is a actual god with oh so mighty powers enough to create all this we see before us today. A god so powerful he creates dinosaurs and then destroys them only to make the humans we see today. Those drug induced pieces of garbage ripping each others crops and telling fibs on a daily basis.. This is just how life and things go.. Its not magic, it is evolution.
> 
> Now show me one thread of real evidence about any god. I believe mother earth is the higher being, not so much being just higher power. So respect that and you will have a good life..
> 
> ...


Something created this. Even if the big bang is creation god, or whatever other theory. God is just a word that means "I'm not too sure, but this thing makes/made it happen" or "I'm confused". You're right, a man in the sky didn't magically breath life into us. It wouldn't make any sense for a giant person to live walking around in space.
And what is wrong with Dinosaurs and humans? The earth was powerful enough working with the sun to make dinosaurs, and kill them. So...

God is real because you are real. Because you effect this world. You can touch materials, and peoples hearts. And those things can spread, and all together everyone and every things actions are the universe as a whole. And that is god, and it is real. Everything happens, and is now part of what is. That is god.

I don't go to church, and am not Christian. But I liked the presents as a kid, and my children will enjoy the same holiday when I have some of my own. But I won't be laughed at for it.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol, I'm looking at the picture and all I see is some guy sitting on a statue holding a cross type thing. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying I can't see it, lol. Is it on the top or bottom half?
> 
> You know how I said they would draw a jetpack? And you said that's because I know how it looks, well why did they draw space crafts and not wings? And why did they draw wings instead of space crafts (unless they actually were angels)? But shaking the earth sounds pretty awesome, hopefully you can remember the name, .
> 
> ...


that vid is cool, but isnt the one on enoch or the german one. that one gives a bit of an answer to the flyin things that were seen in the sky they thought they were birds, but when they would shoot at them the bullets would just bounce off...unless birds back then had teflon skin i doubt that was a bird. most accounts of "divine" beins or people who came in encounter with em say they came down or brought them up in flyin cities. now was it a floatin platform with buildings and shit on it? nah it was prolly a saucer and they didnt know what the fuck it was so they called it a city. some did come down with wings they said, but once again they coulda been beamin down and since they were just floatin they thought they could fly and the only things they knew that fly are birds so it makes sense if somethin was flyin they would say it had wings thats the only reference to somethin flyin they have.

ima check that link out now. on that ancient aliens they interview a dude that talked to the head of the head scientist that worked under hitler and the dude said he asked him how did they know soo much about rockets because the germans had long distance rockets way before we did and that dude said he just pointed to a row of files that were titled ufo and he said "we got help from them" AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH fuck you can help jew killin people but you cant swoop down here and throw me a iron man suit? faggot ass aliens


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

http://naturalplane.blogspot.com/2010/11/hitlers-plan-use-alien-technology.html
Here's the conspiracy that I believe 100%.

I'm gonna watch that video you posted, .


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> http://www.ancientmysteries.eu/data_bestanden/egypt helicopter/MYSTERY UK.html
> Check out this link^^^^. It's not long and boring there's just like five pictures right there that I want to show you.
> on the second picture it looks like there's a blimp there too.


WTFFFF man thats a fuckin heli right there with other crafts! ive never seen that thats wild. i found one pic i dunno if i can find the rest ima have to look through them ancient aliens episodes to find all the pics of carvins and drawins that look like astronauts. heres one i found

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ancientastronauts.jpg
that shit looks like two dudes floatin around with space helmets on. they even try and show the light spectrum they prolly saw reflectin off the helmet.

this dude chillin in a rocketship
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/387/flyingobjects2202a.jpg/sr=1

another space suit
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4A9r9yKkkNs/TADAGeQbehI/AAAAAAAAFKw/js9oc4Qyw_8/s1600/Ancient+Aliens+The+Visitors.jpg

just found this one on a ancient temple with this dude on it
http://www.book-of-thoth.com/portalsupport/coppermine/albums/userpics/5~3.jpg


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> WTFFFF man thats a fuckin heli right there with other crafts! ive never seen that thats wild. i found one pic i dunno if i can find the rest ima have to look through them ancient aliens episodes to find all the pics of carvins and drawins that look like astronauts. heres one i found
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ancientastronauts.jpg
> that shit looks like two dudes floatin around with space helmets on. they even try and show the light spectrum they prolly saw reflectin off the helmet.
> ...


Yup I'm convinced there's aliens, lol. I just watched that video you posted, it's pretty awesome. Some of there "facts" were wrong, but over all awesome show. I wanna take a swim in the devils lake, and get swallowed by the thunderbird so that I can kill it from the inside, lol. I have always been interested in the thunderbird, but I didn't know it had more history than what I one about it. So theythink it's a space craft that came out of the water? That's mind blowing, ha. All this is mind blowing. It makes we wanna become an Indian and venture off into a forest and find some aliens.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So..... What does that have to do with anything? You have no proof god doesn't exist, you claim he doesn't exist, where's your proof. I claim I think he exists, I don't need any proof. But if you want to make a claim that he doesn't exist show me the proof.
> 
> And you say all this then say to respect mother earth, although she is some powerful being. Prove to me she is a powerful being that can somehow make my life better just by me simply respecting her.
> 
> "or you can go to church and believe in santa and give your money away and get laughed at by the rest of us" <<<< that right there obviously shows you have no idea of religion. You described mainstream religion, you didn't describe every religion. I know plenty of people who follow a religion without help from a church. You have no idea of religion, and I suggest either you do some research or don't post ignorant posts.


 thats the most rediculous logic i ever heard , lol you dont have proof the bogey man exists , ive bin through this lots of times with you , but it seems your happy to ignore everything said to you , so carry on believing in something with no evidence for the rest of your life, its your waste of life not mine .


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 12, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> thats the most rediculous logic i ever heard , lol you dont have proof the bogey man exists , ive bin through this lots of times with you , but it seems your happy to ignore everything said to you , so carry on believing in something with no evidence for the rest of your life, its your waste of life not mine .


aight dude im askin you what kinda proof do you have that god doesnt exist?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> thats the most rediculous logic i ever heard , lol you dont have proof the bogey man exists , ive bin through this lots of times with you , but it seems your happy to ignore everything said to you , so carry on believing in something with no evidence for the rest of your life, its your waste of life not mine .


I don't see how it's a waste. You have been through absolutely nothing with me, all you do is bitch and complain. And your arguments are crap and will always remain crap. You say I waste my life, yet you are the little hate filled bitch that never shuts up. 
And you want to bring up the whole I'm ignoring you thing again? Listen, you have shown me no evidence that contradicts my beliefs. If you want to prove yourself right then post the evidence right here. For real, post your evidence, I want to see it. And what do you mean ignore everything said to me, besides sutra I'm sure many RIU members would say I don't ignore what they say. I take everything into consideration, even the dim witted things you say. Lol, you really should start debating like a grown up, instead of insulting religious people when you're no better.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> aight dude im askin you what kinda proof do you have that god doesnt exist?


Dude, I've asked him so many times. He just responds by saying something like "you're just ignoring me, you're stupid" or some shit like that, lol.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 12, 2011)

I've never seen the wind. I believe it's there though.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I've never seen the wind. I believe it's there though.


There's more evidence of that though.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 12, 2011)

Uh, no. Look...I've been on online boards for years, and these convos always go nowhere.There's never any *intelligent discussion*...just a bunch of shrill name-calling and, as I can see after reading a couple threads here, some SERIOUS strawmen/misinterpretation of beliefs/etc. So I'm not sure why I keep jumping in (I'll blame Wheezer's Jilly Bean). I mean...I see a couple threads here where it's obvious the OP is searching/asking serious questions, and then it degenerates into some atheist calling any believers names. Not saying *you* are this way, as I haven't read enough to know. I do know that I enjoy answering sincere questions people may have about the Bible/Christianity, so if someone has one, fire away. But I won't get into a pissing match with anyone (probably someone who considers themselves "tolerant") who wants to just bash my beliefs.


Finshaggy said:


> There's more evidence of that though.


----------



## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Uh, no. Look...I've been on online boards for years, and these convos always go nowhere.There's never any *intelligent discussion*...just a bunch of shrill name-calling and, as I can see after reading a couple threads here, some SERIOUS strawmen/misinterpretation of beliefs/etc. So I'm not sure why I keep jumping in (I'll blame Wheezer's Jilly Bean). I mean...I see a couple threads here where it's obvious the OP is searching/asking serious questions, and then it degenerates into some atheist calling any believers names. Not saying *you* are this way, as I haven't read enough to know. I do know that I enjoy answering sincere questions people may have about the Bible/Christianity, so if someone has one, fire away. But I won't get into a pissing match with anyone (probably someone who considers themselves "tolerant") who wants to just bash my beliefs.


How is there not more evidence of the wind that there is of god(A conscious creator god, as described). Explain how god is easier to see than the wind.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 12, 2011)

yo douche bag, did you ask you mum for evidence that she was your mum? clearly you would have asked her, a man of your knowledge when of age would have questioned if your mum was your mum, as for your dud and so on. SO did you ask for evidence?





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> thats the most rediculous logic i ever heard , lol you dont have proof the bogey man exists , ive bin through this lots of times with you , but it seems your happy to ignore everything said to you , so carry on believing in something with no evidence for the rest of your life, its your waste of life not mine .


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 12, 2011)

Didn't say He was easier to *see* (didja notice the part about strawmen/misinterpretation?). You can't see the wind either. You can see the effects of both though.



Finshaggy said:


> How is there not more evidence of the wind that there is of god(A conscious creator god, as described). Explain how god is easier to see than the wind.


----------



## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Didn't say He was easier to *see* (didja notice the part about strawmen/misinterpretation?). You can't see the wind either. You can see the effects of both though.


I don't care about that part, you quoted me in the end.

And you can damn well see the wind. I have long hair. Sometimes the wind makes it where I can't see anything else but "the wind" blowing my hair around. So yes, I see the wind all the time. On water, in grass. it moves everything.

God (creator, conscious god) exists only in a book, and in the minds of his followers.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Didn't say He was easier to *see* (didja notice the part about strawmen/misinterpretation?). You can't see the wind either. You can see the effects of both though.


So you "Strawmen/Misinterpreted" my posts.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok...we're done. You have NEVER seen the wind. Nor has anyone.



Finshaggy said:


> I don't care about that part, you quoted me in the end.
> 
> And you can damn well see the wind. I have long hair. Sometimes the wind makes it where I can't see anything else but "the wind" blowing my hair around. So yes, I see the wind all the time. On water, in grass. it moves everything.
> 
> God (creator, conscious god) exists only in a book, and in the minds of his followers.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Ok...we're done. You have NEVER seen the wind. Nor has anyone.


Whatever. Yes we have, the wind is obvious. You can even see exactly what it's doing in sand or dust. Ever seen a dirt devil?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

We even word things "Do you SEE THE WIND blowing that guys hair??"


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## RollMeOne420 (Oct 12, 2011)

RollMeOne420 said:


> the universe was created by[video=youtube;hE_OehRLH3s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE_OehRLH3s[/video]


Everyone needs to watch this to know the truth


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

The word "Wind" just describes "The movement of air". We've all "seen the wind"


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

RollMeOne420 said:


> Everyone needs to watch this to know the truth


That's great, with that avatar.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 12, 2011)

Holy crap dude...how are we going to have an intelligent discussion if we can't get thru Point #1? You cannot see air. You cannot see wind. You see the AFFECTS of the wind. If you were laying on top of Mt Everest on a cloudless day looking up at the sky, you wouldn't SEE the 80mph wind around you. Why the hell is that so hard to understand?



Finshaggy said:


> The word "Wind" just describes "The movement of air". We've all "seen the wind"


----------



## germania420 (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Holy crap dude...how are we going to have an intelligent discussion if we can't get thru Point #1? You cannot see air. You cannot see wind. You see the AFFECTS of the wind. If you were laying on top of Mt Everest on a cloudless day looking up at the sky, you wouldn't SEE the 80mph wind around you. Why the hell is that so hard to understand?


Not true we now have cameras that can detect light diferences caused by blowing air, in turn we can now litterally see wind, check it outvoted was on discovery channel a while back


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Holy crap dude...how are we going to have an intelligent discussion if we can't get thru Point #1? You cannot see air. You cannot see wind. You see the AFFECTS of the wind. If you were laying on top of Mt Everest on a cloudless day looking up at the sky, you wouldn't SEE the 80mph wind around you. Why the hell is that so hard to understand?


Air and wind are not the same. you are mistaken. You can see the wind happen. Look up "Dirt Devil". Like that's probably where the guy got the idea for the vacuum brand "Dirt Devil" or "Dust Devil" or whatever. "Watching the wind" in the Dirt Devils.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Holy crap dude...how are we going to have an intelligent discussion if we can't get thru Point #1? You cannot see air. You cannot see wind. You see the AFFECTS of the wind. If you were laying on top of Mt Everest on a cloudless day looking up at the sky, you wouldn't SEE the 80mph wind around you. Why the hell is that so hard to understand?


You would "see the 80mph wind" blowing the snow. Yes.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> You would "see the 80mph wind" blowing the snow. Yes.


<<<

LOL. Ok...laying on top of a boat at sea. There's no clouds. All you can see is the blue sky above you. There's a 20mph wond. You can NOT see it. You know what...nevermind. I knew it was stupid coming in here.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Didn't say He was easier to *see* (didja notice the part about strawmen/misinterpretation?). You can't see the wind either. You can see the effects of both though.


The "wind" can be measured, predicted, influenced and replicated. There's three distinctions the wind enjoys and God lacks. I agree these discussions are filled with strawmen and bad logic, and your comparison to the wind is a prime example.


#217 ARGUMENT FROM WIND
(1) You believe in wind.
(2) But you can't see it.
(3) God's the same way.
(4) It IS TOO analogous!
(5) Therefore, God exists.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 12, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> The "wind" can be measured, predicted, influenced and replicated. There's three distinctions the wind enjoys and God lacks. I agree these discussions are filled with strawmen and bad logic, and your comparison to the wind is a prime example.
> 
> 
> #217 ARGUMENT FROM WIND
> ...


It is analogous. My point was just that there is MUCH MORE evidence of the wind, than there is of a creator god, with consciousness.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 12, 2011)

Holy crap! Is there *anyone* here who understands a simple concept? And you created another strawman, as I never said that "proves God exists".



Heisenberg said:


> The "wind" can be measured, predicted, influenced and replicated. There's three distinctions the wind enjoys and God lacks. I agree these discussions are filled with strawmen and bad logic, and your comparison to the wind is a prime example.
> 
> 
> #217 ARGUMENT FROM WIND
> ...


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 12, 2011)

Well no. See, we never *got* to "you point" because you were too fixated on proving you can see the wind. Ok...my bad for dropping by. Cyas.


Finshaggy said:


> It is analogous. My point was just that there is MUCH MORE evidence of the wind, than there is of a creator god, with consciousness.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 12, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> It is analogous. My point was just that there is MUCH MORE evidence of the wind, than there is of a creator god, with consciousness.


Yes, we agree.



SoCaldrums said:


> Holy crap! Is there *anyone* here who understands a simple concept? And you created another strawman, as I never said that "proves God exists".


We understand your point, and reject it. You _can_ see wind, for all intents and purposes, unless you want to argue semantics. You simply stated "I've never seen the wind. I believe it's there though", so yes we made an assumption that you were comparing the wind to god. This assumption was backed up with the statement "You can't see the wind either. You can see the effects of both though." in which you specifically connected your statement to God.

So then, what was your point? You were simply pointed out things that are invisible? We believe and lots of things we can not 'see' yet can still prove quite conclusively, like gravity. The idea of God has many more problems than his invisibility.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 12, 2011)

> And you created another strawman,


he always does that and i have pointed it out as well. he normally ignores these rules of debate he has broken...

+ rep for pointing it out also


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## Heisenberg (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Well no. See, *we never *got* to "you point"* because you were too fixated on proving you can see the wind. Ok...my bad for dropping by. Cyas.


Your "bad" was not paying attention or thinking through your statement.



SoCaldrums said:


> I've never seen the wind. I believe it's there though.





Finshaggy said:


> There's more evidence of that though.


Looks to me like he made his point directly after your post.


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## Harrekin (Oct 12, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Your "bad" was not paying attention or thinking through your statement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Dont try argue with them Heis, you're a man of logic, these other retards use null-points and bullshit analogous arguments to try rationalise their ridiculous belief in a man sitting on a cloud just because some old book told them to.

As for the helicopters and subs in the Egyptian carvings, guys, you can circle jerk each other all you's want, but its already been proven that water eroded the actual carvings and made them look like that. Search for those pics on a non-nutball site and you'll see theres a perfectly rational explanation for them.

Everytime I go onto one of these threads Im astounded by the stupidity some people display trying to prove their God exists.

"You cant see the wind but its there so God must be real"

"Iv no proof he does exist but have you any proof he doesnt?"

What a load of complete shite, *the person making the outlandish claim has the onus of proof on them*.

Same as if I said I have a 200 ounce plant growing right now, you fuckers would say "pics or it didnt happen". So what, I turn around and say "you've no proof it doesnt exist so it must be true"?

Get a brain ffs.


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## cannabineer (Oct 12, 2011)

Seeing air and seeing wind - my $.02

There are two ways to directly see air, and one of them doesn't even require space travel. 
The one that does involves refraction. Anyone ever see that magnificent bit of video of a moonrise from orbit? The moon is squashed and offset by the prism effect of the deep stratified blister of air between moon and camera.
The one that doesn't involves looking straight up into blue sky. That blue light is scattered by molecular air.

The closest I've come to seeing wind is watching mirage, a special case of a way to visualize minute differences in refractivity that reaches its technical pinnacle in "schlieren" photography. Schlieren is a German word to describe heat shimmer, and looking at mirage through binoculars gives me a powerful sensation of seeing the wind's shape and texture.

It can be argued that this isn't seeing wind or air. Heisenberg has pointed out that this amounts to semantic hair-splitting. If for the moment, in the service of argument, I agree that this isn't seeing wind or air, I will say with confidence that i am seeing direct consequences of wind and air that vcannot be caused by anything else.

To socaldrums I'll say this: finding an equally direct way to demonstrate and characterize the presence, properties and actions of the supposed divine is not a simple problem ... indeed it has defeated some really rather good thinkers and observers for thousands of years. If you claim to have one, one of two situations obtains:
1) You're in possession of something revolutionary.
2) You're in error. 
If you're willing to share evidence for 1) without becoming impatient because someone is doing a good job of disqualifying the analogy in your first post on the topic, I invite you to do so. Otherwise, the polite thing to do is to admit that you've been a bit irascible ... and to entertain the possibility of 2). 
But your contribution must pass the test of immediacy and unambiguity. The classical arguments for, say, intelligent design (a personal favorite being the statistical rats'-nest called Fine-Tuned Universe), do not. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Dont try argue with them Heis, you're a man of logic, these other retards use null-points and bullshit analogous arguments to try rationalise their ridiculous belief in a man sitting on a cloud just because some old book told them to.
> 
> As for the helicopters and subs in the Egyptian carvings, guys, you can circle jerk each other all you's want, but its already been proven that water eroded the actual carvings and made them look like that. Search for those pics on a non-nutball site and you'll see theres a perfectly rational explanation for them.
> 
> ...


Heis is not arguing anything about religion in the post you quoted him on.

What bullshit are you talking about? We say we believe, we don't say it's fact. I have never seen someone say on RIU that it's a fact god is real. And not every religion bases their god on a man sitting on a cloud, so do a little research before you begin judging people. Some religions don't even have a god.

Circle jerk? Wow I'm now convinced you hide in the closet. I don't see how sharing pictures is anything like your favorite hobby. And if water erosion changed the pictures to look like helicopters then how can we still read their writings in their language if water erosion had such a drastic impact on their carvings? And are you trying to deny that they had contact with higher beings? You seem to think only "rationally" which is a mistake many people make. Great scientist throughout history have though irrationally and have discovered things nobody thought of. You should be more open minded and stop judging others because you have a different belief.

What stupidity? You show no sign of intelligence, all I see is you bitch and complain all the time. Besides where's the stupidity? I see belief but no stupidity. Is that it? You just think because someone follows a religion they're stupid? 

Again we don't need proof just like you don't need proof. If you want proof become an archeologist and find some proof. We don't have to prove shit to you because we only have faith. That's it, that's all we have. But that still doesn't make us stupid. How do we not have a brain? I've said this before to you but I'm 100% positive there's a bunch of religious scholars who would kick your ass in any debate so fuck off and stop talking shit about religious people.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Heis is not arguing anything about religion in the post you quoted him on.
> 
> What bullshit are you talking about? We say we believe, we don't say it's fact. I have never seen someone say on RIU that it's a fact god is real. And not every religion bases their god on a man sitting on a cloud, so do a little research before you begin judging people. Some religions don't even have a god.
> 
> ...


 Have you actually read the rest of this thread? Its packed full to the brim with people claiming God is real and anyone who denies him/her/it is wrong.

Click out of this thread back to the subforum, look at how many dumb religious threads there are slamming people who choose not to believe in something which is neither provable or unprovable.

There are even people on this thread that tried to say that because we cant see the wind but it exists that God exists.

Also I never said the Egyptians didnt have any contact with aliens or whatever, just that the carving you have does not show helicopters, it may appear to, but it has been explained away by archaeologists time and again... Google the term "palimpsest".

Faith is ok, organised religion is stupid...and claiming the existance of God as fact purely from faith is stupid also.

A religion without a God is more of a moral or belief system, not a religion. Like Buddhism for example.

Im not an athiest, Im agnostic and I simply believe that speculation in matters of faith is wasteful as it is neither provable nor unprovable. People are entitled to their faith, but to claim it as fact (like many on this very thread have) is stupid and offensive to anyone of logic and even vague intelligence.

Here hypocrite, not claiming it as fact no?



Hepheastus420 said:


> No god wants us to be with him. He doesn't punish us but we reject heaven by "sinning" so yeah that's that. I'm not sure if the devil tortures anyone because him himself is the one tortured most of all.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Have you actually read the rest of this thread? Its packed full to the brim with people claiming God is real and anyone who denies him/her/it is wrong.
> 
> Click out of this thread back to the subforum, look at how many dumb religious threads there are slamming people who choose not to believe in something which is neither provable or unprovable.
> 
> ...


No it's not fact dumbass. Do you take everything people say as fact? They were asking hypothetical questions so I gave then a hypothetical answer. I don't believe what I posted, that's just some peoples beliefs of Satan. Again how is that being a hypocrite?

I'm just saying that you should shut the fuck up if you're gonna group every religious person together and call the stupid as a whole, you judgmental prick.


----------



## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> No it's not fact dumbass. Do you take everything people say as fact? They were asking hypothetical questions so I gave then a hypothetical answer. I don't believe what I posted, that's just some peoples beliefs of Satan. Again how is that being a hypocrite?
> 
> I'm just saying that you should shut the fuck up if you're gonna group every religious person together and call the stupid as a whole, you judgmental prick.


 If something isnt fact or at least somewhat grounded in fact, then why say it at all?

Simple question, is God real or not?


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> If something isnt fact or at least somewhat grounded in fact, then why say it at all?
> 
> Simple question, is God real or not?


I BELIEVE he is real but there are no facts that he is.

Simple question for you, how was the world made?

If you can answer that question with fact then I will drop my religion right now.
So everything you have ever said or posted was a fact? Damn that's awesome; that means you have never voiced your opinion.

"these other retards use null-points and bullshit analogous arguments .." << that is not fact, yet you say it. But using your logic that means you claim it is fact. See that's hypocrisy right there. You say that others shouldn't say things as fact. You say others shouldn't say anything at all unless it's fact, but you think it's ok to state false statements.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I BELIEVE he is real but there are no facts that he is.
> 
> Simple question for you, how was the world made?
> 
> ...


 So how can you state to genuinely believe in him but not state as a fact that he is real? You either believe in him or you dont.

Iv backed up everything Iv said and showed links, etc. How is anything Iv stated false?

Science has shown how the world was made btw, big bang, gravity drawing clouds of dust together, Earth cooled down...look it up yourself, why should I have to explain it to you?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> So how can you state to genuinely believe in him but not state as a fact that he is real? You either believe in him or you dont.
> 
> Iv backed up everything Iv said and showed links, etc. How is anything Iv stated false?


Like how you said some people on here are retard, that's not fact, yet you said it. To prove it was fact is to show papers showing their mental illness, but for now it's just an opinion. So why should everyone else only get to post facts while you get to post opinions? I said I believe him, I also said I have no facts. How is this not getting through to you?


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Again Im done with this, same reason as other thread. Your arguments are completly void of logic and your arguing little pathetic details like how my posts are written as opposed to responding to the actual content. Its a lack of comprehension I think so peace, enjoy.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 13, 2011)

> these other retards use null-points and bullshit analogous arguments to try rationalise their ridiculous belief in a man sitting on a cloud


calling others retards while you yourself cannot spell is very intelligent! What bullshit arguments have been made about what each individual believes on here? What rationalizations have we done on here to prove anything to you? Who are you, that we must prove something to you?



> Im astounded by the stupidity some people display trying to prove their God exists.


Who has tried to prove anything? You are the one demonstrating your great stupidity brother. 



> You cant see the wind but its there so God must be real"


you are retarded if you actually gave that any thought.



> shite,


it's "SHIT" jackass!



> the person making the outlandish claim has the onus of proof on them.


shut the fuck up brother. Outlandish claims... You are the one going off on your little rants and diatribe blibber blabber bullshit brother. Heph has made some really good points and you have nothing to say to them except your stupid attacks and foul language. You treat others the way you wish to be treated, so fuck you.



> So what, I turn around and say "you've no proof it doesnt exist so it must be true"?


^^^^^


> Get a brain ffs





> Its packed full to the brim


"full to the brim"? Apparently you have not read this thread yourself jackass. This thread is filled with great points made by intelligent individuals who enjoy good debate. You come along and fuck shit up for everybody spewing your stupid religion hatred around here like you're some john fucking wayne! GTFOH!!!!!



> God is real and anyone who denies him/her/it is wrong.


straw man fallacy... no one has ever said that to anyone on here. We value each others opinions and respect them. You on the other hand, you think you are some billy badass who can piss all over peoples beliefs. Do that in real life and see what happens brother. you treat others the way you wish to be treated, so fuck you.



> look at how many dumb religious threads there are slamming people who choose not to believe


slamming people? LOL my fucking ass off!!!! I beg to differ, there plenty more hate driven anti religious threads on here then what your stupid statement says. 



> we cant see the wind but it exists that God exists.


again, if you gave that any thought, you are retarded sir...




> claiming the existance of God as fact purely from faith is stupid also.


why is it stupid? It is stupid that you state " the existence of God as Fact" when no one has said that. Do you not have preferences? If you do, Fuck your stupid preferences asshole, they are stupid as shit.



> Im not an athiest, Im agnostic and I simply believe that speculation in matters of faith is wasteful as it is neither provable nor unprovable. People are entitled to their faith, but to claim it as fact (like many on this very thread have) is stupid and offensive to anyone of logic and even vague intelligence.


[video=youtube;RFZrzg62Zj0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0[/video]



> If something isnt fact or at least somewhat grounded in fact, then why say it at all?


why are so many theories accepted when they have yet to be tested or proven? shut up with your stupid logic brother.



> So how can you state to genuinely believe in him but not state as a fact that he is real? You either believe in him or you dont.


you are really stupid dude, you make no sense whatsoever...



> why should I have to explain it to you?


Cause you are the asshole making your stupid asshole statements about peoples beliefs and asking us "if we believe or we dont?"



> Science has shown how the world was made


science has not proven the origins of AIDS/HIV



> Your arguments are completly void of logic and your arguing little pathetic details


Man, you want everyone on here to think you are some highly intelligent and mature individual, when all you have done is demonstrate your stupidity and immaturity. Just cause you trade posts with heis doesnt mean you are some really smart person dude. heis is, you aint.. get it, got it, good





> Its a lack of comprehension I think


this is the best statement you have said so far, you contradict yourself and accuse others of a "lack of comprehension.?

LOL


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 13, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> aight dude im askin you what kinda proof do you have that god doesnt exist?


of course i cant prove A god does not exist the same as i cant prove the bogey man , bigfoot , fairys , witches , goblins etc etc etcdont exist , but that in no way gives anny credibilty for them existing , to prove something exists you have to provide evidence for it . it really cant be any simpler .
Do you even realise how stupid your logic is here ? i could state that an invisible planet exists right next to our own wich i visit regulary , and you cant prove that it does not exist , so it is true ner ner ner ner lol its so stupid its funny .and if that what you base your beliefs on i feel really sorry for you lol


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

+1 Olylifter


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 13, 2011)

the best thing about all these threads is, after all the arguing and going round in circles ( with certain people ) there still ISNT ONE SINGLE SCRAP OF EVIDENCE BEEN PUT FORWARD FOR THE EXISTANCE OF ANY GOD , LOL


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## olylifter420 (Oct 13, 2011)

yo douche bag, did you ask you mum for evidence that she was your mum? clearly you would have asked her, a man of your knowledge when of age would have questioned if your mum was your mum, as for your dud and so on. SO did you ask for evidence?





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> of course i cant prove A god does not exist the same as i cant prove the bogey man , bigfoot , fairys , witches , goblins etc etc etcdont exist , but that in no way gives anny credibilty for them existing , to prove something exists you have to provide evidence for it . it really cant be any simpler .
> Do you even realise how stupid your logic is here ? i could state that an invisible planet exists right next to our own wich i visit regulary , and you cant prove that it does not exist , so it is true ner ner ner ner lol its so stupid its funny .and if that what you base your beliefs on i feel really sorry for you lol


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## olylifter420 (Oct 13, 2011)

the faggot high is a douche and is pretty stupid. Dont mind him any attention as that will increase its activity around here... last time everyone stopped exchanging with it and it left to feed somewhere else...






blazinkill504 said:


> and i also havent seen one piece of evidence that god doesnt exist so until then you're just goin around in circles yourself


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## olylifter420 (Oct 13, 2011)

yo douche bag, did you ask you mum for evidence that she was your mum? clearly you would have asked her, a man of your knowledge when of age would have questioned if your mum was your mum, as for your dud and so on. SO did you ask for evidence?



Originally Posted by ThE sAtIvA hIgH 
of course i cant prove A god does not exist the same as i cant prove the bogey man , bigfoot , fairys , witches , goblins etc etc etcdont exist , but that in no way gives anny credibilty for them existing , to prove something exists you have to provide evidence for it . it really cant be any simpler .
Do you even realise how stupid your logic is here ? i could state that an invisible planet exists right next to our own wich i visit regulary , and you cant prove that it does not exist , so it is true ner ner ner ner lol its so stupid its funny .and if that what you base your beliefs on i feel really sorry for you lol


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> of course i cant prove A god does not exist the same as i cant prove the bogey man , bigfoot , fairys , witches , goblins etc etc etcdont exist , but that in no way gives anny credibilty for them existing , to prove something exists you have to provide evidence for it . it really cant be any simpler .
> Do you even realise how stupid your logic is here ? i could state that an invisible planet exists right next to our own wich i visit regulary , and you cant prove that it does not exist , so it is true ner ner ner ner lol its so stupid its funny .and if that what you base your beliefs on i feel really sorry for you lol


lol all i see is you givin no proof of what you believe, but you're askin everyone that does believe to give proof that god does exist which to me is a dumbass logic. and you continue to talk shit like oh yea nobody can prove to me that god exists, but you're just as bad as a person that believes in god with no proof because you dont believe in god with no proof. dont question my logic dude because the logic you're showin is stupid as hell to be honest


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> the best thing about all these threads is, after all the arguing and going round in circles ( with certain people ) there still ISNT ONE SINGLE SCRAP OF EVIDENCE BEEN PUT FORWARD FOR THE EXISTANCE OF ANY GOD , LOL


Most Pagan gods do exist. And I talked about it already. The personification of gods, was just a way for the people that understood phenomenon, to explain it to the masses, who would NEVER understand. They had to give the lightning, wilderness, sun, and earth human attributes, so that the common people could understand and relate emotionally to the forces being presented to them.
So the gods htemselves (Zues, Pan, Aphrodite) aren't REALLY sitting in the clouds, but they do describe REAL phenomenon, that used to be called "Gods".


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Some things have to be believed to be seen....


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 13, 2011)

thats silly , i can see my mum everyday have conversation with her i can reach out and touch her why would i need anymore evidence ? everyone else around me confirms that what im seeing is actually real ,as they allso, see ,touch and can hear my mum . the same cant be said about your god .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 13, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> lol all i see is you givin no proof of what you believe, but you're askin everyone that does believe to give proof that god does exist which to me is a dumbass logic. and you continue to talk shit like oh yea nobody can prove to me that god exists, but you're just as bad as a person that believes in god with no proof because you dont believe in god with no proof. dont question my logic dude because the logic you're showin is stupid as hell to be honest


well no, i dont believe in any god so i dont need to prove my belief as i dont have a belief in something , you believe in a god but cant prove it exists .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 13, 2011)

you are a man of logic and always request evidence do you not? when you were a child how did you know she really was your mum? You would have confused your mumther with the babysitter or your sister, or aunt right? Did you ask all of them for evidence? As a child were you not taken out to the stores and other populated areas where you could have interacted with other people, confusing those people with your true parents because you also interact with them as you do with your parents. You talk to them, you exchange things and occasionally touch hands, all the same you do with your parents, aunts, uncles, siblings. Your logic is really stupid brother and you are really stupid too.




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> thats silly , i can see my mum everyday have conversation with her i can reach out and touch her why would i need anymore evidence ? everyone else around me confirms that what im seeing is actually real ,as they allso, see ,touch and can hear my mum . the same cant be said about your god .


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> thats silly , i can see my mum everyday have conversation with her i can reach out and touch her why would i need anymore evidence ? everyone else around me confirms that what im seeing is actually real ,as they allso, see ,touch and can hear my mum . the same cant be said about your god .


We actually do confirm it with her everyday of childhood. Doesn't everyone here CALL their mom, "MOM". And doesn't she reply?? THis confirms it for us for years on end.

I'm not arguing. I'm just saying we have confirmation of our moms.


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

Sativas got it. Its not the atheist job to to prove the non-existentence of god. He just wonders what scientific, philosophical, or physical evidence you have support a soley imaginary or intangible being.
But as for evidence against god. pick up a biology book, every time the bible and it disagree we can test it with science and see which one is correct. <- and to refute this statement one could say that with the new and present knowledge coming out about our ever expanding universe that the laws of science/ physics do not apply to every situation equally and therefore science cannot be taken as total truth. Agnostics have the best stance on the issue. They recognize their lack of understanding of a situation and are content with just being.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 13, 2011)

ou not? when you were a child how did you know she really was your mum? You would have confused your mumther with the babysitter or your sister, or aunt right? Did you ask all of them for evidence? As a child were you not taken out to the stores and other populated areas where you could have interacted with other people, confusing those people with your true parents because you also interact with them as you do with your parents. You talk to them, you exchange things and occasionally touch hands, all the same you do with your parents, aunts, uncles, siblings. Your logic is really stupid brother and you are really stupid too.[/QUOTE]
LMFAO you cant be serious ? animals can even distinguish parents from others


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> well no, i dont believe in any god so i dont need to prove my belief as i dont have a belief in something , you believe in a god but cant prove it exists .


this right here shows me the lack of brain power you're displayin right now. i never said i believed in a god or that i didnt, but since im comin at your for bein a hypocrite you automatically assume i do. you just said i dont believe in any god....what do they call belief without evidence? hmm faith so you're goin off faith that god doesnt exist seein as you yourself have no proof. im not tryin to be a dick, but if you cant step your debate up its not even worth me respondin anymore


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 13, 2011)

ghantron said:


> Sativas got it. Its not the atheist job to to prove the non-existentence of god. He just wonders what scientific, philosophical, or physical evidence you have support a soley imaginary or intangible being.
> But as for evidence against god. pick up a biology book, every time the bible and it disagree we can test it with science and see which one is correct. <- and to refute this statement one could say that with the new and present knowledge coming out about our ever expanding universe that the laws of science/ physics do not apply to every situation equally and therefore science cannot be taken as total truth. Agnostics have the best stance on the issue. They recognize their lack of understanding of a situation and are content with just being.


so my question is why do believers have to prove somethin but athiests dont? agnostic is where i fall cause i see it this way. NOBODY on this earth knows why we are here so im not gonna sit here and say i know how the fuck it is when thats not the case


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ou not? when you were a child how did you know she really was your mum? You would have confused your mumther with the babysitter or your sister, or aunt right? Did you ask all of them for evidence? As a child were you not taken out to the stores and other populated areas where you could have interacted with other people, confusing those people with your true parents because you also interact with them as you do with your parents. You talk to them, you exchange things and occasionally touch hands, all the same you do with your parents, aunts, uncles, siblings. Your logic is really stupid brother and you are really stupid too.



You call you're mom "Mom" and it confirms who she is. Then yes you ask her who the other people are, and her confirmation of "Aunt" "Babysitter" "Grandma" "Grandpa" "Teacher" are evidence enough for you to believe that is who they are. And other people become trustworthy enough to define your world to you also. But Your mom is the basic one.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 13, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> this right here shows me the lack of brain power you're displayin right now. i never said i believed in a god or that i didnt, but since im comin at your for bein a hypocrite you automatically assume i do. you just said i dont believe in any god....what do they call belief without evidence? hmm faith so you're goin off faith that god doesnt exist seein as you yourself have no proof. im not tryin to be a dick, but if you cant step your debate up its not even worth me respondin anymore


you really dont get it do you , its so simple a child could understand it . i DONT BELIEVE is different to I BELIEVE , i lack the belief in your god so there is no BELIEF WITHOUT EVIDENCE because i freakin LACK BELIEF , how much simpler can one make it ?


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

Give me proof that their is a man who can breath in outerspace with no clothes on. or proof against it. Not possible for a finite being, but does that mean you shouldn't be able to use reasoning to understand the situation. U understand we need oxygen (very few people can convert nitrogen after 80% o2 loss) to breath. you understand there is no oxygen in space. you understand a man cant breathe in space without added help. All i am saying is that many religious people ignore contradictory facts that go against their religious texts. If your religious text is scientifically wrong and it is what defines god, well then seems that it has the potential to be wrong about that to.


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

your lack of evidence of god is my evidence that god is not real <- thats what i think sativas getting at.


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you really dont get it do you , its so simple a child could understand it . i DONT BELIEVE is different to I BELIEVE , i lack the belief in your god so there is no BELIEF WITHOUT EVIDENCE because i freakin LACK BELIEF , how much simpler can one make it ?


What do you believe in???


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

ghantron said:


> Give me proof that their is a man who can breath in outerspace with no clothes on. or proof against it. Not possible for a finite being, but does that mean you shouldn't be able to use reasoning to understand the situation. U understand we need oxygen (very few people can convert nitrogen after 80% o2 loss) to breath. you understand there is no oxygen in space. you understand a man cant breathe in space without added help. All i am saying is that many religious people ignore contradictory facts that go against their religious texts. If your religious text is scientifically wrong and it is what defines god, well then seems that it has the potential to be wrong about that to.


He would be different than us in the aspect of breathing, but I can see your point. 

What if space is just a giant ocean, planets and suns are the molecules of water, and solid stuffs. What if there are giant fish and one day the milky way is just going to be a water drop, in the flow of a giant fishes tail.

We can't understand what will, or won't be living in space. But there's not a god that created the universe in the order stated in the bible. 
I don't care what you believe about earth or god, this planet was not the most important thing he made. He did not balance out the universe perfectly simply for earth. I do not believe in a creator god, but the one in the bible isn't real. because the stars weren't as simple as "Let there be light" then the Earth filled up the rest of the 5 days...What the fuck. No, that didn't happen.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> What do you believe in???


 i DONT , i lack the belief in any god .


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i DONT , i lack the belief in any god .


Where do you think life comes from


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Where do you think life comes from


The ground. Mostly Carbon and Water, bonded in a way that work with electricity, and strives to power itself(eat).

And plants are a manifestation of evaporation through solid materials.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you really dont get it do you , its so simple a child could understand it . i DONT BELIEVE is different to I BELIEVE , i lack the belief in your god so there is no BELIEF WITHOUT EVIDENCE because i freakin LACK BELIEF , how much simpler can one make it ?


you're right dude what im sayin is soo simple a child could understand it. too bad you're blinded by hypocrisy to see what im sayin. it makes sense tho cause you dont read what i say because if you did you woulda got that i dont believe or dis-believe.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Where do you think life comes from


 im not sure , there certainly is no evidence that a god created it .


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

. All i am saying is that many religious people ignore contradictory facts that go against their religious texts.>>>

I'm a Christian. I'm not "religious" at all, and in fact deplore organized religion. My text is the Bible. So, find ONE thing in the bible that "ignores contradictory facts"

If your religious text is scientifically wrong and it is what defines god, well then seems that it has the potential to be wrong about that to.[/QUOTE]>>>

Agreed.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> im not sure , there certainly is no evidence that a god created it .


Even in the first written text of man, and the first written religion of man. The universe created itself out of pure will. The universe is nothing more than the pure desire to be _something, _instead of nothing. Then the other religions came along and started making everything more simple minded.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> . All i am saying is that many religious people ignore contradictory facts that go against their religious texts.>>>
> 
> I'm a Christian. I'm not "religious" at all, and in fact deplore organized religion. My text is the Bible. So, find ONE thing in the bible that "ignores contradictory facts"
> 
> If your religious text is scientifically wrong and it is what defines god, well then seems that it has the potential to be wrong about that to.


>>>

Agreed.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying to find contradictions in the bible??? Because I've got at least one.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> The ground. Mostly Carbon and Water, bonded in a way that work with electricity, and strives to power itself(eat).
> 
> And plants are a manifestation of evaporation through solid materials.



...carbon / 666


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...carbon / 666


Carbon divided by The mark of the beast equals the creation of life? Makes sense, the end result and the base number divided by each other gives you your answer.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Carbon divided by The mark of the beast equals the creation of life? Makes sense, the end result and the base number divided by each other gives you your answer.


...how about the long list of unsolved physics problems? I'm going back to the op here and adding this:

*Theoretical problems

The following problems are either fundamental theoretical problems, or theoretical ideas which lack experimental evidence and are in search of one, or both, as most of them are. Some of these problems are strongly interrelated. For example, extra dimensions or supersymmetry may solve the hierarchy problem. It is thought that a full theory of quantum gravity should be capable of answering most of these problems (other than the Island of stability problem).

Quantum gravity, cosmology, and general relativity

Vacuum catastrophe
Why does the predicted mass of the quantum vacuum have little effect on the expansion of the universe?

Quantum gravity
Can quantum mechanics and general relativity be realized as a fully consistent theory (perhaps as a quantum field theory)? Is spacetime fundamentally continuous or discrete? Would a consistent theory involve a force mediated by a hypothetical graviton, or be a product of a discrete structure of spacetime itself (as in loop quantum gravity)? Are there deviations from the predictions of general relativity at very small or very large scales or in other extreme circumstances that flow from a quantum gravity theory?

Black holes, black hole information paradox, and black hole radiation

Do black holes produce thermal radiation, as expected on theoretical grounds? Does this radiation contain information about their inner structure, as suggested by Gauge-gravity duality, or not, as implied by Hawking's original calculation? If not, and black holes can evaporate away, what happens to the information stored in them (quantum mechanics does not provide for the destruction of information)? Or does the radiation stop at some point leaving black hole remnants? Is there another way to probe their internal structure somehow, if such a structure even exists?

Extra dimensions
Does nature have more than four spacetime dimensions? If so, what is their size? Are dimensions a fundamental property of the universe or an emergent result of other physical laws? Can we experimentally "see" evidence of higher spatial dimensions?

Cosmic inflation
Is the theory of cosmic inflation correct, and if so, what are the details of this epoch? What is the hypothetical inflaton field giving rise to inflation? If inflation happened at one point, is it self-sustaining through inflation of quantum-mechanical fluctuations, and thus ongoing in some impossibly distant place?

Multiverses
Are there physical reasons to expect other universes that are fundamentally non-observable? For instance: Are there quantum mechanical "alternative histories" or "many worlds"? Are there "other" universes with physical laws resulting from alternate ways of breaking the apparent symmetries of physical forces at high energies, possibly incredibly far away due to cosmic inflation? Is the use of the anthropic principle to resolve global cosmological dilemmas justified?

The cosmic censorship hypothesis and the chronology protection conjecture

Can singularities not hidden behind an event horizon, known as "naked singularities", arise from realistic initial conditions, or is it possible to prove some version of the "cosmic censorship hypothesis" of Roger Penrose which proposes that this is impossible? Similarly, will the closed timelike curves which arise in some solutions to the equations of general relativity (and which imply the possibility of backwards time travel) be ruled out by a theory of quantum gravity which unites general relativity with quantum mechanics, as suggested by the "chronology protection conjecture" of Stephen Hawking?

Arrow of time
What do the phenomena that differ going forward and backwards in time tell us about the nature of time? How does time differ from space? Why are CP violations observed in certain weak force decays, but not elsewhere? Are CP violations somehow a product of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, or are they a separate arrow of time? Are there exceptions to the principle of causality? Is there a single possible past? Is the present moment physically distinct from the past and future or is it merely an emergent property of consciousness? Why do people appear to agree on what the present moment is? (See also Entropy (arrow of time) below)

Locality
Are there non-local phenomena in quantum physics? If they exist, are non-local phenomena limited to transfers of information, or can energy and matter also move in a non-local way? Under what circumstances are non-local phenomena observed? What does the existence or absence of non-local phenomena imply about the fundamental structure of spacetime? How does this relate to quantum entanglement? How does this elucidate the proper interpretation of the fundamental nature of quantum physics?

Future of the universe
Is the universe heading towards a Big Freeze, a Big Rip, a Big Crunch or a Big Bounce? Is our universe part of an infinitely recurring cyclic model?*


...absolutely foolish to believe in just about anything it seems.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...how about the long list of unsolved physics problems? I'm going back to the op here and adding this:
> 
> *Theoretical problems
> 
> ...


That's all getting into "Quantum Physics" and other "Hypothetical Sciences". That's not related to what OP said, and it's not even based in fact. It's based in math. I'm sorry if you think math is true, but it's not. Things change in math every year, maybe even every DAY. The thoughts we have in Quantum Physics are guesses, based on and further ideas from math ideas, that can still be corrected. We are not perfect, we have not figured out this world, we can not go guessing at worm holes, what they would do and such. That is Science Fiction, so far.
Go to the NASA website. Black holes have never, ever been seen. We guess at things MAYBE being black holes because, "There's so much gravity there what else could be there but a black hole." Bullshit. We haven't been past the fuckin moon in person(not camera, person). How the fuck are we supposed to be able to guess what something is that we can't see?????


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> That's all getting into "Quantum Physics" and other "Hypothetical Sciences". That's not related to what OP said, and it's not even based in fact. It's based in math. I'm sorry if you think math is true, but it's not. Things change in math every year, maybe even every DAY. The thoughts we have in Quantum Physics are guesses, based on and further ideas from math ideas, that can still be corrected. We are not perfect, we have not figured out this world, we can not go guessing at worm holes, what they would do and such. That is Science Fiction, so far.
> Go to the NASA website. Black holes have never, ever been seen. We guess at things MAYBE being black holes because, "There's so much gravity there what else could be there but a black hole." Bullshit. We haven't been past the fuckin moon in person(not camera, person). How the fuck are we supposed to be able to guess what something is that we can't see?????


...I really wanted to show how futile it is to say that one hypothetical system is better than another hypothetical system. Science, in ways, is as much belief without proof. Both are continually changing 'entities'.


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## TogTokes (Oct 13, 2011)

you think because you were dumb enough to get hit by a train and survive that god saved you? then it seems that train also made you crazy on top of all those broken bones...


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## TogTokes (Oct 13, 2011)

Science is belief without proof eh lmao. Some of you are nut jobs.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Ok, bring it. I can't wait...because it will *have* to be one that hasn't been caught by anyone else in the last few thousand years. But here's what'll happen: you'll come up with one, I'll explain why it's not one, you'll ignore what I say, we'll yell at each other for awhile, then we'll move on while keeping our separate opinions. Or...I could just smoke some Chocalope and not bother.




Finshaggy said:


> >>>
> 
> Agreed.


Are you saying to find contradictions in the bible??? Because I've got at least one.[/QUOTE]


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## TogTokes (Oct 13, 2011)

Plain and Simple.. Santa is real so god has to be, and demons, and boogy men, and miracles, and all that other wizardry bullshit harry potter pre teen fantasy chasing child molesters. 


have fun.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

TogTokes said:


> Science is belief without proof eh lmao. Some of you are nut jobs.


...what is so hard to accept about this? You have proof, we accept that. I think everyone wants proof to some degree. But it is also fact that proof has things that still need to be proven. Go ahead with partial proofs and claim difference from 'believers'.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I really wanted to show how futile it is to say that one hypothetical system is better than another hypothetical system. Science, in ways, is as much belief without proof. Both are continually changing 'entities'.


I'm basing my statement on observation. Not math OR science OR religion.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

TogTokes said:


> Plain and Simple.. Santa is real so god has to be, and demons, and boogy men, and miracles, and all that other wizardry bullshit harry potter pre teen fantasy chasing child molesters.
> 
> 
> have fun.




...why does everyone go back to this sht? It bores me to particles.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Ok, bring it. I can't wait...because it will *have* to be one that hasn't been caught by anyone else in the last few thousand years. But here's what'll happen: you'll come up with one, I'll explain why it's not one, you'll ignore what I say, we'll yell at each other for awhile, then we'll move on while keeping our separate opinions. Or...I could just smoke some Chocalope and not bother.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Ok, just wait. I gotta do a little reading maybe. I already have it written down, but if I can't find it I'll have to do some searching. I remember it though. I'll give you the Exact place to find it and everything.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I'm basing my statement on observation. Not math OR science OR religion.




...fair enough.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Right? Freaking 8th graders.



eye exaggerate said:


> ...why does everyone go back to this sht? It bores me to particles.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

TogTokes said:


> Plain and Simple.. Santa is real so god has to be, and demons, and boogy men, and miracles, and all that other wizardry bullshit harry potter pre teen fantasy chasing child molesters.
> 
> 
> have fun.


Way over used....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you really dont get it do you , its so simple a child could understand it . i DONT BELIEVE is different to I BELIEVE , i lack the belief in your god so there is no BELIEF WITHOUT EVIDENCE because i freakin LACK BELIEF , how much simpler can one make it ?


Listen dipshit, lol. You have stated so many fucking times that I ignore the evidence you claimed to have, I kept asking for YOUR evidence and you kept saying you're stupid Heph. Then you said I'm ignoring your evidence, so again I asked what evidence is it that I'm ignoring. You answered that by calling me a dumbass, idiot, religious nutjob. So THEN you say "you're still ignoring my evidence and good points", so I ask what good evidence and good points; you then say o don't need to show you. By then other members of RIU got suspicious and started asking you what evidence; you combat your lack of evidence by calling intelligent individuals like blazinkill, oly, and spliff Chris stupid. You then say all religious people ignore your evidence that contradicts their beliefs, then everyone says WHAT EVIDENCE? And you say you're all stupid. Do you see the fucking pattern? If you don't then you're the biggest dumbass ever, ha.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 13, 2011)

at least he has "he's stupid part" right... 

LOL, biggest dumbass ever!!!! 

pretty much heph, its fun how he tries to be all smart and what not...







Hepheastus420 said:


> Listen dipshit, lol. You have stated so many fucking times that I ignore the evidence you claimed to have, I kept asking for YOUR evidence and you kept saying you're stupid Heph. Then you said I'm ignoring your evidence, so again I asked what evidence is it that I'm ignoring. You answered that by calling me a dumbass, idiot, religious nutjob. So THEN you say "you're still ignoring my evidence and good points", so I ask what good evidence and good points; you then say o don't need to show you. By then other members of RIU got suspicious and started asking you what evidence; you combat your lack of evidence by calling intelligent individuals like blazinkill, oly, and spliff Chris stupid. You then say all religious people ignore your evidence that contradicts their beliefs, then everyone says WHAT EVIDENCE? And you say you're all stupid. Do you see the fucking pattern? If you don't then you're the biggest dumbass ever, ha.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> at least he has "he's stupid part" right...
> 
> LOL, biggest dumbass ever!!!!
> 
> pretty much heph, its fun how he tries to be all smart and what not...


Yeah but it's jut mind blowing how he doesn't see how faulty his dim witted logic is.


I think we scared him off for now.......... but his stupidity can strike at any moment..... Beware!!!


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## Michael Sparks (Oct 13, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> how is it seriousley possible people believe in gods without evidence , anything else in life requires evidence, to believe its true , yet when it comes to believing in a god , stupid people disregard this vital point , why is this ? its truly shocking


 Whom are you to judge what/who someone belives in, unless they are hurting you, or inspiring you in a way you strife away from, don't worry, we are all one, though our thoughts beliefs and practices may be diverged, we are all human.


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

the atheist need not supply evidence. He relies on the believers in ability to provide adequate evidence. Hes arguing that you cannot prove god, not that he cant prove there isn't a god. He doesn't need to. if you cannot prove that *big foot is real then why should i have 'faith' he is.... *yetti *sasquach


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

and about being able to prove gods contradictions. he fought the angels for control of heaven, If god were the fully omnipotent omniscient being he was their would be no fighting. There would be god and no one would start shit, would u start shit with a omnipotent all powerful being, unh uh


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

and god creating all the animals, nope, evolution. a matter of environment and chance creating organisms.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Ahhh...a rational person! Right? Ironically, the haters probably make a show about how "tolerant" they are. "I don't judge anyne....except Christians". I'm an older dude, I smoke pot, drink beer, play in a rockin band, have gay friends, and would turn anyone here on to pretty much any herb they could name if they came to visit me...and yet because I happen to believe in the God of the Christian Bible, I've been attacked by people here who no nothing about me.



Michael Sparks said:


> Whom are you to judge what/who someone belives in, unless they are hurting you, or inspiring you in a way you strife away from, don't worry, we are all one, though our thoughts beliefs and practices may be diverged, we are all human.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

ghantron said:


> the atheist need not supply evidence. He relies on the believers in ability to provide adequate evidence. Hes arguing that you cannot prove god, not that he cant prove there isn't a god. He doesn't need to. if you cannot prove that *big foot is real then why should i have 'faith' he is.... *yetti *sasquach


You missed a vital part of this whole argument, such a vital part that without out it we would seem like the people with the faulty logic when it is really sativa (you give sativa a bad name sativahigh) with the faulty logic. 
Sativa said he has evidence that goes against my beliefs and that his evidence disproved my god. He then said I ignore his points and EVIDENCE. 
Do you now understand? (not trying to be a dick). He claimed to have evidence countless times, and now he just wants to say we are the ones that need evidence. Bullshit he claimed to have evidence so now I want to see it.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Well! There we go then! All settled.



ghantron said:


> and god creating all the animals, nope, evolution. a matter of environment and chance creating organisms.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Ahhh...a rational person! Right? Ironically, the haters probably make a show about how "tolerant" they are. "I don't judge anyne....except Christians". I'm an older dude, I smoke pot, drink beer, play in a rockin band, have gay friends, and would turn anyone here on to pretty much any herb they could name if they came to visit me...and yet because I happen to believe in the God of the Christian Bible, I've been attacked by people here who no nothing about me.


I feel for you dude, lol. Don't think all atheist on RIU are like this though. Some of them are awesome, but there's some assholes too. But the assholes are just trolls, so just bitch slap them with your logic and they will whimper away, .


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

hahaha I got u, ur right there, is no evidence against the existence of god, just like there is no evidence of murder or rape being bad, its just a matter of opinion and free choice


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

Ok, I'm about to post it. Read at the very least the first 3 things. Exodus, Deuteronomy, and I Samuel.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

I found it. I will post the contradiction that came to mind first on top. And other things that I noticed WHILE READING THE BIBLE for the second time, while I was in jail (first time was in a place for smoking weed).
Here's the two contradictions that came to mind(Exodus, Duet, and I Sam) and one that is just fucked up(the Exodus after those):

Exodus 22:18
18 Do not allow a sorceress to live.

Dueteronomy 18:11-15
11 casting spells, holding séances, or channeling with the dead. 12 People who do these things are an abomination to God. It's because of just such abominable practices that God, your God, is driving these nations out before you. 13 Be completely loyal to God, your God. 14 These nations that you're about to run out of the country consort with sorcerers and witches. But not you. God, your God, forbids it. 15 God, your God, is going to raise up a prophet for you. God will raise him up from among your kinsmen, a prophet like me. Listen obediently to him.


1st Samuel 28:7-25
7 Saul then said to his attendants, &#8220;Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.&#8221;

&#8220;There is one in Endor,&#8221; they said.

8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. &#8220;Consult a spirit for me,&#8221; he said, &#8220;and bring up for me the one I name.&#8221;

9 But the woman said to him, &#8220;Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?&#8221;

10 Saul swore to her by the LORD, &#8220;As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this.&#8221;

11 Then the woman asked, &#8220;Whom shall I bring up for you?&#8221;

&#8220;Bring up Samuel,&#8221; he said.

12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, &#8220;Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!&#8221;

13 The king said to her, &#8220;Don&#8217;t be afraid. What do you see?&#8221;

The woman said, &#8220;I see a ghostly figure[a] coming up out of the earth.&#8221;

14 &#8220;What does he look like?&#8221; he asked.

&#8220;An old man wearing a robe is coming up,&#8221; she said.

Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

15 Samuel said to Saul, &#8220;Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?&#8221;

&#8220;I am in great distress,&#8221; Saul said. &#8220;The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.&#8221;

16 Samuel said, &#8220;Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has departed from you and become your enemy? 17 The LORD has done what he predicted through me. The LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors&#8212;to David. 18 Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. 19 The LORD will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.&#8221;

20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel&#8217;s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night.

21 When the woman came to Saul and saw that he was greatly shaken, she said, &#8220;Look, your servant has obeyed you. I took my life in my hands and did what you told me to do. 22 Now please listen to your servant and let me give you some food so you may eat and have the strength to go on your way.&#8221;

23 He refused and said, &#8220;I will not eat.&#8221;

But his men joined the woman in urging him, and he listened to them. He got up from the ground and sat on the couch.

24 The woman had a fattened calf at the house, which she butchered at once. She took some flour, kneaded it and baked bread without yeast. 25 Then she set it before Saul and his men, and they ate. That same night they got up and left.



Exodus 21:20-21
20 &#8220;Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.




Here's some other verses for you, THINK about the people who wrote these things:

These first two are the most important, jesus says anyone can do anything that he can do.
Matthew 21:18-22
18 Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. "How did the fig tree wither so quickly?" they asked.

21 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. 22If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

Mark 11:12-14

12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it.(contiues the same as the other)



Isaiah 48:22-26
22Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.

23And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

24Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered?

25But thus saith the LORD, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children.

26And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Job 26:13-20
13By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. 14Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him?

Job 37:16-20
16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?19 Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness.20 Shall it be told him that I speak? if a man speak, surely he shall be swallowed up.

Acts 8:9-24
9But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

10To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

11And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

Job 38:22
21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?


Mathew 20:17
17And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,

18Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

19And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Psalms 104:2-6
2 Who cover Yourself with light as with a garment,
Who stretch out the heavens like a curtain. 

3 He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters,
Who makes the clouds His chariot, 
Who walks on the wings of the wind,
4 Who makes His angels spirits,
His ministers a flame of fire. 

5 You who laid the foundations of the earth,
So that it should not be moved forever,
6 You covered it with the deep as with a garment;
The waters stood above the mountains.

Jeremiah 10:13-16
13 When He utters His voice, 
There is a multitude of waters in the heavens: 

&#8220; And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth. 
He makes lightning for the rain, 
He brings the wind out of His treasuries.&#8221;[a]
14 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge; 
Every metalsmith is put to shame by an image; 
For his molded image is falsehood, 
And there is no breath in them. 
15 They are futile, a work of errors; 
In the time of their punishment they shall perish. 
16 The Portion of Jacob is not like them, 
For He is the Maker of all things,
And Israel is the tribe of His inheritance; 
The LORD of hosts is His name.
II Corinthians 12:2-6
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago&#8212;whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows&#8212;such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man&#8212;whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows&#8212; 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. 6 For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.
I Timothy 6:20-21
20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge&#8212; 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. 
Grace be with you. Amen.


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

I really am not trying to attack beliefs or personal choices, I just feel we should move communally in a direction that allows us to view things and make decisions based on scientific reasoning and grounded evidence. I feel it holds a society back when they are ignorant, by choice or not, of truth. By all means i think the christian religion is great for instilling morals in those that cannot reach these principles on their own.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Nah...trolls are tiring. I need to extricate myself from this insanity. I do like talking/debating such matters, but it's just so rare to find non a-holes to do it with. Not saying all here are, but the whole "I know you are but what am I?" school of "debating" sucks when I should be enjoying a Wheezer cross (or working!).



Hepheastus420 said:


> I feel for you dude, lol. Don't think all atheist on RIU are like this though. Some of them are awesome, but there's some assholes too. But the assholes are just trolls, so just bitch slap them with your logic and they will whimper away, .


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## cannabineer (Oct 13, 2011)

Gosh, everybody knows the only thing in Endor are big f'n trees and feral teddy bears who joyride on floating garden equipment.
cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Damn he edited his post so I can show you guys where he claimed he has evidence. But if you care to see just look at post number 58. The quote on that post shows where this whole argument of asking for proof from him originated. Check it out.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I found it. I will post the contradiction that came to mind first on top. And other things that I noticed WHILE READING THE BIBLE for the second time, while I was in jail (first time was in a place for smoking weed).
> Here's the two contradictions that came to mind(Exodus, Duet, and I Sam) and one that is just fucked up(the Exodus after those):
> 
> Exodus 22:18
> ...



Contradiction:

DON'T HAVE SEANCES. God hate's witches!!!! God says KILL WITCHES!!!!!!!


So...They went to have a Seance...


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Dude...can you just boil it down? I can look up the scripture. (Not trying to be rude...just makes it easier) I only read your first one..but I don't even see the contradiction there. Witches were supposed to die. Saul disobeyed that, along with enough other things that God whacked him.



Finshaggy said:


> Ok, I'm about to post it. Read at the very least the first 3 things. Exodus, Deuteronomy, and I Samuel.


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## cannabineer (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Nah...trolls are tiring. I need to extricate myself from this insanity. I do like talking/debating such matters, but it's just so rare to find non a-holes to do it with. Not saying all here are, but the whole "I know you are but what am I?" school of "debating" sucks when I should be enjoying a Wheezer cross (or working!).


Are you including post #283 in that blanket dismissal? If so, why? cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

ghantron said:


> I really am not trying to attack beliefs or personal choices, I just feel we should move communally in a direction that allows us to view things and make decisions based on scientific reasoning and grounded evidence. I feel it holds a society back when they are ignorant, by choice or not, of truth. By all means i think the christian religion is great for instilling morals in those that cannot reach these principles on their own.


 Do not act as though religious people are the only people cannot reach their set of morals alone. Nobody can install morals alone, you need at least one other person to gain morals. It just depends on who you got your morals from.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Dude...can you just boil it down? I can look up the scripture. (Not trying to be rude...just makes it easier) I only read your first one..but I don't even see the contradiction there. Witches were supposed to die. Saul disobeyed that, along with enough other things that God whacked him.


But it says not to, says to kill witches. Then someone in the bible, working for god. Clearly goes and preforms a seance with success. You asked for contradiction, and there it is.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Oh...now I read the 2nd example...and I don't see any contradiction at all. Help me out here.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Oh. My. God. Dude! He wasn't "working for god"!! Holy crap! He DISOBEYED God and was killed for it!



Finshaggy said:


> But it says not to, says to kill witches. Then someone in the bible, working for god. Clearly goes and preforms a seance with success. You asked for contradiction, and there it is.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Oh...now I read the 2nd example...and I don't see any contradiction at all. Help me out here.



That wasn't an example of contradiction. If you read the first one is contradiction. The rest is just fucked up stuff in the bible. Like look at those people's point of views, and what is going on. It's not a good book to read, and live life based on. Like morally, yeah, a little good. But it's FUCKED.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Oh. My. God. Dude! He wasn't "working for god"!! Holy crap! He DISOBEYED God and was killed for it!


Disobeyed in the course of being told to, and semi trying to fulfill gods will.


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## cannabineer (Oct 13, 2011)

TogTokes said:


> Science is belief without proof eh lmao. Some of you are nut jobs.


1) No. 
2) Yes. 
cn


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

you dont need anyone to instill morals man, it can be gleamed from reality. I am a vegetarian, have been sense second grade, I noticed life had inherent value and i stopped eating meat because it took a life so that we may have a luxury. I didn't need any one to tell me, in fact no one did. Everyone in the school ate meat and at lunch i was ridiculed, but it didn't mean i couldn't recognize right from wrong regardless of what others thought.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

It would be a "blanket dismissal" if I didn't say "not saying all here are." Didn't/wouldn't put you in that category.



cannabineer said:


> Are you including post #283 in that blanket dismissal? If so, why? cn


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Oh...so rather that do the ONE thing you claimed: finding discrepancies in the Bible, you instead post 1/2 the thing and then say it's "FUCKED". I almost though you *weren't* a troll.



Finshaggy said:


> That wasn't an example of contradiction. If you read the first one is contradiction. The rest is just fucked up stuff in the bible. Like look at those people's point of views, and what is going on. It's not a good book to read, and live life based on. Like morally, yeah, a little good. But it's FUCKED.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Disobeyed in the course of being told to, and semi trying to fulfill gods will.


LOL. Isn't he great folks? Let's give him hand! No, God never told him to seek out a witch. And he wasn't doing "god's will" at all...which is exactly why God whacked him and put David, a "man after God's own heart" on the throne. Dude...you have NO idea what the Bible says, and yet you're an "expert" on it. Seriously...I just don't have time to play that game.


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## cannabineer (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> It would be a "blanket dismissal" if I didn't say "not saying all here are." Didn't/wouldn't put you in that category.


In that case I invite you to respond. I'm not here to play Logic Trap, so be (re)assured I'll treat any post directed my way with as much or more respect as/than I was shown. 

Wind, air, black holes ... we cannot see these things directly, but we can conclusively demonstrate their presence and action at a single, rationally airtight (sic!) remove. Finding similarly direct evidence for divine activity, playing by the rules of natural philosophy ... not as easy in my experience and opinion. cn


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

I don't see where I disrespected you at all! And I'm not going to try to prove God exists to you, just as you can't prove He doesn't. I'd highly recommend a book/dvd called Creator And The Cosmos by Hugh Ross. To you. Not the bumper sticker trolls. Dude's a double PHD...I think in astrophysics and...astronomy? He also happens to be an "old-earth creationist", which puts him outside of mainstream Christian belief (so much so that many say he *isn't* a Christian). He can talk your talk though...I'm no astrophysist...hell, I can't even spell it. But dude's pretty fascinating .



cannabineer said:


> In that case I invite you to respond. I'm not here to play Logic Trap, so be (re)assured I'll treat any post directed my way with as much or more respect as/than I was shown.
> 
> Wind, air, black holes ... we cannot see these things directly, but we can conclusively demonstrate their presence and action at a single, rationally airtight (sic!) remove. Finding similarly direct evidence for divine activity, playing by the rules of natural philosophy ... not as easy in my experience and opinion. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I don't see where I disrespected you at all! And I'm not going to try to prove God exists to you, just as you can't prove He doesn't. I'd highly recommend a book/dvd called Creator And The Cosmos by Hugh Ross. To you. Not the bumper sticker trolls. Dude's a double PHD...I think in astrophysics and...astronomy? He also happens to be an "old-earth creationist", which puts him outside of mainstream Christian belief (so much so that many say he *isn't* a Christian). He can talk your talk though...I'm no astrophysist...hell, I can't even spell it. But dude's pretty fascinating .


I can tell already I don't have anywhere near the mainstream intelligence that guy has but it sounds like me when it comes to being a "unique" Christian. I don't know man, it's like when you leave church (at least for me) you see religion in a better perspective. Please don't take offense if you do go to church, and if you like church then more power to you buddy, .


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I can tell already I don't have anywhere near the mainstream intelligence that guy has but it sounds like me when it comes to being a "unique" Christian. I don't know man, it's like when you leave church (at least for me) you see religion in a better perspective. Please don't take offense if you do go to church, and if you like church then more power to you buddy, .



...getting centered in a centre, who'd a thunk it!


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## olylifter420 (Oct 13, 2011)

I fucking hate it bro.. Just this weekend at my aunts funeral, this fucking self proclaimed pastor fucked shit up big time and i was extremely irritated at that motherfucker. he claimed to be a man of God all the while this asshole was mumbling and stuttering and constantly checking the verses he wanted to speak of. Motherfucker couldnt even pronounce my aunts name properly... Fuck that disrespectful asshole


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Went to a Catholic church for 30 years. Had an awakening in the back of an ambulance. I now go to a cool, kick-back, "seeker-friendly" church that isn't part of any "religion". I always say "Jesus isn't an ism". Jesus' main target were the "religious" people. "Religion is man's attempt at reaching God. Jesus is God's way of reaching man." I don't claim to be a genius. I just have common sense. I read the Bible. I saw that it had tons of manuscript, archeological, prophetic and statistical evidence to support it. Therefore, I believe it. No one has EVER "disproved" anything in it...despite a few thousand years of trying. When I hear of people "leaving the church", 9x out of 10 they;re talking about the RCC. Don't mean to Catholic-bash, but that's true. True or not, I'd tell anyone who ever left *any* church: don't walk away from God because of the actions of someone who supposedly *represents* him." The greatest threat to Christianity is "Christians".



Hepheastus420 said:


> I can tell already I don't have anywhere near the mainstream intelligence that guy has but it sounds like me when it comes to being a "unique" Christian. I don't know man, it's like when you leave church (at least for me) you see religion in a better perspective. Please don't take offense if you do go to church, and if you like church then more power to you buddy, .


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Went to a Catholic church for 30 years. Had an awakening in the back of an ambulance. I now go to a cool, kick-back, "seeker-friendly" church that isn't part of any "religion". I always say "Jesus isn't an ism". Jesus' main target were the "religious" people. "Religion is man's attempt at reaching God. Jesus is God's way of reaching man." I don't claim to be a genius. I just have common sense. I read the Bible. I saw that it had tons of manuscript, archeological, prophetic and statistical evidence to support it. Therefore, I believe it. No one has EVER "disproved" anything in it...despite a few thousand years of trying. When I hear of people "leaving the church", 9x out of 10 they;re talking about the RCC. Don't mean to Catholic-bash, but that's true. True or not, I'd tell anyone who ever left *any* church: don't walk away from God because of the actions of someone who supposedly *represents* him." The greatest threat to Christianity is "Christians".


..............


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> LOL. Isn't he great folks? Let's give him hand! No, God never told him to seek out a witch. And he wasn't doing "god's will" at all...which is exactly why God whacked him and put David, a "man after God's own heart" on the throne. Dude...you have NO idea what the Bible says, and yet you're an "expert" on it. Seriously...I just don't have time to play that game.


Going to the witch wasn't god's will. He was trying to do something else for god, and went to the witch along that road. He shouldn't have, but did.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

Made some Keif.View attachment 1835313View attachment 1835314View attachment 1835317123


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Right. So where is there any "contradiction?"



Finshaggy said:


> Going to the witch wasn't god's will. He was trying to do something else for god, and went to the witch along that road. He shouldn't have, but did.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Right. So where is there any "contradiction?"


While attempting to commit the will of god, gods people (sometimes) disobey the will of god. But still it is the book of "what to do, and what is" not "Maybe this, and this happens. Maybe that, and that happens"


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## Finshaggy (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Right. So where is there any "contradiction?"


And instead of murdering the witch, as clearly stated you should do in the bible, he seeks her out...

AND witch hunts should be rampant. WE "Shall not permit a sorceress to live."


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## cannabineer (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I don't see where I disrespected you at all! And I'm not going to try to prove God exists to you, just as you can't prove He doesn't. I'd highly recommend a book/dvd called Creator And The Cosmos by Hugh Ross. To you. Not the bumper sticker trolls. Dude's a double PHD...I think in astrophysics and...astronomy? He also happens to be an "old-earth creationist", which puts him outside of mainstream Christian belief (so much so that many say he *isn't* a Christian). He can talk your talk though...I'm no astrophysist...hell, I can't even spell it. But dude's pretty fascinating .


Not saying you disrespected me. However I did notice that you sought thoughtful debate in re ontology. I paid attention to the discussion and though I'd provide an opening.
I became interested because the way I read the thread, you were implying that the observation of the activity of the divine was as immediately discernible as wind and air. I wanted to know if I could induce you to provide specifics. From this post the answer appears to be No. 

I'll say this, speaking for myself: One of the most offensive Biblical passages is Romans 1:20. Imo it is incorrect. It then papers over its incorrectness (and the to-me-obvious fact that God's presence in the world is not obvious) with an appeal to ridicule; in effect, "if you don't see it you're an idiot and a troll". It seems like a very poor way for supposed scribes-of-God to comport themselves. cn


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## Heisenberg (Oct 13, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Not saying you disrespected me. However I did notice that you sought thoughtful debate in re ontology. I paid attention to the discussion and though I'd provide an opening.
> I became interested because the way I read the thread, you were implying that the observation of the activity of the divine was as immediately discernible as wind and air. I wanted to know if I could induce you to provide specifics. From this post the answer appears to be No.
> 
> I'll say this, speaking for myself: One of the most offensive Biblical passages is Romans 1:20. Imo it is incorrect. It then papers over its incorrectness (and the to-me-obvious fact that God's presence in the world is not obvious) with an appeal to ridicule; in effect, "if you don't see it you're an idiot and a troll". It seems like a very poor way for supposed scribes-of-God to comport themselves. cn


I find it a typical thing to see religious folk talking as if the thing(s) that convince them of God should be obvious for all to see, but when you press them about it they either change the subject, provide you will poorly thought out arguments, or in some cases admit that the reasons are not obvious, simply faith, but they believe anyway.

As I have said before, faith is fine with me as long as you admit it and then realize what it means, but faith is in no way an obvious thing that should be apparent to everyone.

to quote myself


> *It's fine to believe something on faith IF you understand what that means. It means you are not allowed to debate your idea, because you can not support it. It means you are not allowed to use your ideas to influence any sort of social or public policy, because you have no justification. You certainly are not allowed to teach your ideas in any sort of authoritative context. You have the right to express your belief and then sit down and be quiet because your idea amounts to wild speculation. Speculation is not afforded certitude. When the idea of God acquires more support and evidence than the idea of leprechauns or the tooth fairy, you might then have something more to say.*


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## cannabineer (Oct 13, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I find it a typical thing to see religious folk talking as if the thing(s) that convince them of God should be obvious for all to see, but when you press them about it they either change the subject, provide you will poorly thought out arguments, or in some cases admit that the reasons are not obvious, simply faith, but they believe anyway.


I don't begrudge believers their faith. I don't especially like the mandate to evangelize, but I have a "live and let live" attitude that avoids unnecessary conflict. i was once a rather serious student of the New Testament, and Romans 1:20 always stuck in my craw. The text of that verse (from the NIV translation) is this:



> *20* For since the creation of the world God&#8217;s invisible qualities&#8212;his eternal power and divine nature&#8212;have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


It's a classic no-winner. Invisible/clearly seen? And if I don't see it, I am without excuse!? (only one thing to say: ) Excuuse me?
cn


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I don't begrudge believers their faith. I don't especially like the mandate to evangelize, but I have a "live and let live" attitude that avoids unnecessary conflict. i was once a rather serious student of the New Testament, and Romans 1:20 always stuck in my craw. The text of that verse (from the NIV translation) is this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



...I've thought this to be man and woman. There was an intense study involved in going from literal to metaphorical interpretation (and super fuzzy points in between). But that's just my bit. I'm not pushing anything. Eternal 'power' + Divine (receptive) nature is what I take from that. No claims on 'righthood'.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

[video]http://video.adultswim.com/squidbillies/squidvolution.html[/video]

Semantics


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> You missed a vital part of this whole argument, such a vital part that without out it we would seem like the people with the faulty logic when it is really sativa (you give sativa a bad name sativahigh) with the faulty logic.
> Sativa said he has evidence that goes against my beliefs and that his evidence disproved my god. He then said I ignore his points and EVIDENCE.
> Do you now understand? (not trying to be a dick). He claimed to have evidence countless times, and now he just wants to say we are the ones that need evidence. Bullshit he claimed to have evidence so now I want to see it.


show me a link to where ive said i have evidence a god dosent exist lol ive said many times i cant prove a god dosent exist but i lack the belief that one does then you go on shouting prove he dosent blah blah , same old rubbish wich countless inteligent people have gone over over n over again with you , i would choose to ignore you now coz i find you tedious , but im not gonna let you spread nonsense in my thread , so yeah .
and more to the point still not one scrap of evidence for your god existing lmao.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Damn he edited his post so I can show you guys where he claimed he has evidence. But if you care to see just look at post number 58. The quote on that post shows where this whole argument of asking for proof from him originated. Check it out.


ha ha ha your desperate dude ,your hysterical over a slight miswording i typed ,i was supposed to type 'your ignoring facts not evidence ,i can understand your excitment that i typed something incorrectly but it still dosent back up your argument in anyway , how could it even be possible to have evidence something dosent exist you total moron ? anyway more to the point still not one scrap of evidence your god exists lmao .


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

Dude...you make no sense. Fail. If/when you come up with a "contradiction", let me know.


Finshaggy said:


> While attempting to commit the will of god, gods people (sometimes) disobey the will of god. But still it is the book of "what to do, and what is" not "Maybe this, and this happens. Maybe that, and that happens"


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

I made a (simple) analogy. I never said that "the activity of the divine was as immediately discernible as wind an air". On the contrary, the point is that you can't see either wind or God, yet there's plenty of evidence that both exist. AFA Rom 1:20...don't know what to tell you. Pretty self-explanitory.God put enough evidence of His existence out there, and it's up to us to see/discern it. Might be "in your face", but I don't see how you can call it "incorrect".



cannabineer said:


> Not saying you disrespected me. However I did notice that you sought thoughtful debate in re ontology. I paid attention to the discussion and though I'd provide an opening.
> I became interested because the way I read the thread, you were implying that the observation of the activity of the divine was as immediately discernible as wind and air. I wanted to know if I could induce you to provide specifics. From this post the answer appears to be No.
> 
> I'll say this, speaking for myself: One of the most offensive Biblical passages is Romans 1:20. Imo it is incorrect. It then papers over its incorrectness (and the to-me-obvious fact that God's presence in the world is not obvious) with an appeal to ridicule; in effect, "if you don't see it you're an idiot and a troll". It seems like a very poor way for supposed scribes-of-God to comport themselves. cn


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

hey heppatitus your time would be better spent , on your knees praying to your invisible friend up above , couldnt you pray yourself some credibal evidence he exists so you can stop looking so stupid infront the internetz people lmao.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

You make a couple false assumptions here...at least about me. I'm not "religious" at all. I believe in the Bible. I don't wear funny hats, chant, face certain directions when I pray or fly planes into buildings when people disagree with me.So I'm not big on "religion". And I didn't say God "is obvious for all to see"...the Bible does however. *I* needed more proof than that. So I read the Bible. It has more manuscript evidence than any works of Plato or Shakespeare. Archeological evidence supports it (there's never been an archeological find that contradicts *anything* in it). The prophetic evidence is overwhelming (people wrote about Jesus' crucifixion...a punishment that hadn't even been invented yet, thousands of years before Jesus was born..along with when/where He'd be born/etc). And statistically...for one man to fulfill all the prophecies written about him would be impossible unless he was divine. So I don't have a *blind* faith (and I haven't even gotten into my own witness of things that can only be ascribed to a higher source). So that's all the evidence *I* need. You obviously need more. Well...if God can't provide it for you, I certainly can't.



Heisenberg said:


> I find it a typical thing to see religious folk talking as if the thing(s) that convince them of God should be obvious for all to see, but when you press them about it they either change the subject, provide you will poorly thought out arguments, or in some cases admit that the reasons are not obvious, simply faith, but they believe anyway.
> 
> As I have said before, faith is fine with me as long as you admit it and then realize what it means, but faith is in no way an obvious thing that should be apparent to everyone.
> 
> to quote myself


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> You make a couple false assumptions here...at least about me. I'm not "religious" at all. I believe in the Bible. I don't wear funny hats, chant, face certain directions when I pray or fly planes into buildings when people disagree with me.So I'm not big on "religion". And I didn't say God "is obvious for all to see"...the Bible does however. *I* needed more proof than that. So I read the Bible. It has more manuscript evidence than any works of Plato or Shakespeare. Archeological evidence supports it (there's never been an archeological find that contradicts *anything* in it). The prophetic evidence is overwhelming (people wrote about Jesus' crucifixion...a punishment that hadn't even been invented yet, thousands of years before Jesus was born..along with when/where He'd be born/etc). And statistically...for one man to fulfill all the prophecies written about him would be impossible unless he was divine. So I don't have a *blind* faith (and I haven't even gotten into my own witness of things that can only be ascribed to a higher source). So that's all the evidence *I* need. You obviously need more. Well...if God can't provide it for you, I certainly can't.


 lol how come there is no evidence of a flood on the scale of noahs flood , that wiped everything out lol every bone we find today would all be on the same level , it would be clear to see evidence all around us of a flood that size and where did all the water go ? 
you dont believe in religion but you believe in the bible lol and btw none of the bible can be used as credibal evidence, as it was word passed down .The bible can not be used as evidence to support that the God of the bible exists, because you must first assume that the bible's claim that God exists is true. .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxE7OOl6Qo


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> it would be clear to see evidence all around us of a flood that size and where did all the water go ?



...the serengeti


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

the serengeti lol your funny


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol how come there is no evidence of a flood on the scale of noahs flood , that wiped everything out lol every bone we find today would all be on the same level , it would be clear to see evidence all around us of a flood that size and where did all the water go ?
> you dont believe in religion but you believe in the bible lol and btw none of the bible can be used as credibal evidence, as it was word passed down .The bible can not be used as evidence to support that the God of the bible exists, because you must first assume that the bible's claim that God exists is true. .


 Yeah I picked up on that too, not religious but believes whats written in the Bible...its an interesting paradox.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

God = Supernatural. Why men have gay sex and kiss each other and hold hands in the cinema and shower together = Scientific. 
Can you put God in a laboratory and do tests on him? No, you can't. And a plus about God is that you don't need a team of scientists to work together and *Proof* anything for the masses. Believe it, or DONT. I find this post offensive. Stupid people disregard YOUR vital point? Pfffff. On a related topic, I'm going to go take a morning dump. Good day Sir.


ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> how is it seriousley possible people believe in gods without evidence , anything else in life requires evidence, to believe its true , yet when it comes to believing in a god , stupid people disregard this vital point , why is this ? its truly shocking


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

'god equals supernatural' , first prove your god exists before assuming it and then making brash statements , otherwise you have as much credibilty as if you were talking about the honey monster .
can i put your god in a labatory to do tests lol no i cant because he has done a vanishing act lol 
you are correct , the masses follow blindely with no proof , no proof needed for alot of dim people , yet other smarter people require proof and evidence .
im glad you find the post offensive , it might make you stop n think for yourself .
enjoy your dump .

ps ....believe it or dont .? err ...................dont


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

every person imet who claims they dont believe in God, deep down they do. the devil tricked some angels and he tricks us, he wants to have more power than God Almighty. the wages of sin is death. if your not under Gods law then your ways will destroy you because only through God can you live in peace, love, and harmony. people who seeks earthly pleasure before God are wrong and they know it so the devil steps in and says little things that sound good to you and seems ok but you know it aint right in Gods eyes so when you do those things you feel guilty, because you are. the devil steps in again and tells you things. boom got you again, and after round and round again you take on the views of satan which is, true free will= anything you want to do. God gave free will from the get go to choose as you wish, his ways are perfect and keeps us all happy, and perfect. Satan was wrong in his views because only with God will it be truth, peace, love and happiness, away from God is the exact opposite war, hate, sadness, anger, violence, lies etc. which is the devils way. if the devil can trick angels in heaven he can trick people on earth which he does. what we got now is the illuminati(devil worshipers) who are people who got tricked by the devil who are controlling everything and tricking us to doing evil(devils way). your blind if you cant see Gods truth. God is real, and the prophecies in the bible happened foreal and are happening today as it is written. were living in the last days and the Lord has a set date and time when hes coming in which no man knows. so isay to you, who read my post just now- repent, pray, and submit yourselves to the Lord Jesus Christ while hes being merciful to you and keeping you alive another day so that you may be saved. because once you die, the doors of mercy will be closed forever.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> every person imet who claims they dont believe in God, deep down they do. the devil tricked some angels and he tricks us, he wants to have more power than God Almighty. the wages of sin is death. if your not under Gods law then your ways will destroy you because only through God can you live in peace, love, and harmony. people who seeks earthly pleasure before God are wrong and they know it so the devil steps in and says little things that sound good to you and seems ok but you know it aint right in Gods eyes so when you do those things you feel guilty, because you are. the devil steps in again and tells you things. boom got you again, and after round and round again you take on the views of satan which is, true free will= anything you want to do. God gave free will from the get go to choose as you wish, his ways are perfect and keeps us all happy, and perfect. Satan was wrong in his views because only with God will it be truth, peace, love and happiness, away from God is the exact opposite war, hate, sadness, anger, violence, lies etc. which is the devils way. if the devil can trick angels in heaven he can trick people on earth which he does. what we got now is the illuminati(devil worshipers) who are people who got tricked by the devil who are controlling everything and tricking us to doing evil(devils way). your blind if you cant see Gods truth. God is real, and the prophecies in the bible happened foreal and are happening today as it is written. were living in the last days and the Lord has a set date and time when hes coming in which no man knows. so isay to you, who read my post just now- repent, pray, and submit yourselves to the Lord Jesus Christ while hes being merciful to you and keeping you alive another day so that you may be saved. because once you die, the doors of mercy will be closed forever.


 Just like I said in the other thread, your post is so bat shit crazy I could almost grow plants with it.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> the fbi snatched me up 1day and showed me the ''plan'' of the illuminati, and let me say, the devil himself wrote it, no doubts about it. if you ever saw it YOU WILL BE CREEPED OUT TO THE POINT OF NIGHTMARES EVERY NIGHT FOR A WEEK!


It seems you're just completely mentally unsound, would that be an accurate assumption?


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

you go ahead and think that, we'll see who's right in the end.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> every person imet who claims they dont believe in God, deep down they do. the devil tricked some angels and he tricks us, he wants to have more power than God Almighty. the wages of sin is death. if your not under Gods law then your ways will destroy you because only through God can you live in peace, love, and harmony. people who seeks earthly pleasure before God are wrong and they know it so the devil steps in and says little things that sound good to you and seems ok but you know it aint right in Gods eyes so when you do those things you feel guilty, because you are. the devil steps in again and tells you things. boom got you again, and after round and round again you take on the views of satan which is, true free will= anything you want to do. God gave free will from the get go to choose as you wish, his ways are perfect and keeps us all happy, and perfect. Satan was wrong in his views because only with God will it be truth, peace, love and happiness, away from God is the exact opposite war, hate, sadness, anger, violence, lies etc. which is the devils way. if the devil can trick angels in heaven he can trick people on earth which he does. what we got now is the illuminati(devil worshipers) who are people who got tricked by the devil who are controlling everything and tricking us to doing evil(devils way). your blind if you cant see Gods truth. God is real, and the prophecies in the bible happened foreal and are happening today as it is written. were living in the last days and the Lord has a set date and time when hes coming in which no man knows. so isay to you, who read my post just now- repent, pray, and submit yourselves to the Lord Jesus Christ while hes being merciful to you and keeping you alive another day so that you may be saved. because once you die, the doors of mercy will be closed forever.


yeah ok mate , prove any of that nonsense is true or im calling BULLSHIT .
AND CAN I JUST ASK WICH GOD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ? THERES MORE THAN JUST THE ONE YOU BELIEVE IN ( SUPPOSEDLY )


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah ok mate , prove any of that nonsense is true or im calling BULLSHIT .


icould prove it true but iwant people to see with their own eyes so they wont be in doubt even when its proved. just open up the holy bible to what Jesus says it will be like in the last days, turn on the news, and test the bible to see if its right or wrong. you can test any part of the bible if you dont believe in God and youll know first hand whether its real or not


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

Hey Diesel, trying to teach love to these cold hearted dudes is tickling my funny bone! hehehehe. What the fuck do they believe in? Let's speculate. They believe that spending all the life studying about Dinosaur bones is extremely important for man kind. What else. oOOooooo how about their men from space that anal probe them day and night? Yea that's some good comforting bullshit to believe in and care about OH! yesss and videotaping GHOSTS for youtube, very fucking important indeed. Whoops! my eggo's just popped up from the atheist toaster


diesel15 said:


> you go ahead and think that, we'll see who's right in the end.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> icould prove it true but iwant people to see with their own eyes so they wont be in doubt even when its proved. just open up the holy bible to what Jesus says it will be like in the last days, turn on the news, and test the bible to see if its right or wrong. you can test any part of the bible if you dont believe in God and youll know first hand whether its real or not


 Bullshit you can prove it, you cant prove the unprovable.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

Ahahaha I am Laughing Out Loud.


Harrekin said:


> It seems you're just completely mentally unsound, would that be an accurate assumption?


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

Ok heres one for you. Jesus supposidly healed people and even brought one dude back from the dead... how come the only place there's any reference to this is the Bible? Not think the Romans would've noticed?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Hey Diesel, trying to teach love to these cold hearted dudes is tickling my funny bone! hehehehe. What the fuck do they believe in? Let's speculate. They believe that spending all the life studying about Dinosaur bones is extremely important for man kind. What else. oOOooooo how about their men from space that anal probe them day and night? Yea that's some good comforting bullshit to believe in and care about OH! yesss and videotaping GHOSTS for youtube, very fucking important indeed. Whoops! my eggo's just popped up from the atheist toaster


WOW i dont know anyone who does any of those things , lol men from outer space lol ghosts lol and dinosaur bones ? 
i dont need to be taught love its a natural instinct im born with .


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Bullshit you can prove it, you cant prove the unprovable.


how are you going to say ''unprovable'' when anybody can prove it true by picking up the bible, reading it, test it in everyday life, and prove it.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> icould prove it true but iwant people to see with their own eyes so they wont be in doubt even when its proved. just open up the holy bible to what Jesus says it will be like in the last days, turn on the news, and test the bible to see if its right or wrong. you can test any part of the bible if you dont believe in God and youll know first hand whether its real or not


yeah sure you could , you are mad dude sheer mad .


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)




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## TogTokes (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Right? Freaking 8th graders.


 8th graders, seems you need your glasses checked, or, am i a ten year grow vet who is only 8 years old.. Screw religion this is the new chat topic.. j/k..

Anyways.. It is true guys hate to brake it to you.. Santa is Fake.. No such thing as Wizards. Therefor your god in all his Might is one big false Overlord. Not trying to be mean but you guys been getting scammed like kids for thousands of years.. 
All jesus was is a hippy who was walking around using hemp oil to help heal people.. Someone decided to make him the son of God... Whoopdiwhoo. You all need to get your heads out of your asses and see the Light, or show me some real evidence not just words and omg Miracles.. Bunch of Sissie gurls need to see the Light.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Ok heres one for you. Jesus supposidly healed people and even brought one dude back from the dead... how come the only place there's any reference to this is the Bible? Not think the Romans would've noticed?


...well, jesus, the christ...it's an energy and it does heal. Back from the dead? You mean back from the throes of one's lower nature? Sure thing. There's a big difference between jesus and christ. "christos"

...the second coming of christ, not jesus. It's adulthood from my perspective. He's to be seen as an example, look at the way his life was described. Seem familiar? The apostles are alive and well. Moses is alive and well, etc. etc... they are fundamentals of human behavior. The metaphor of his 'riding into town on a donkey' is indicative of moving into adulthood.


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 14, 2011)

Seriously, atheism has nothing to do with the big bang. 

The big bang has everything to do with the big bang.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)




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## TogTokes (Oct 14, 2011)

Atheism is BS too.. It is easier not claiming anything.. But my only claim is that you are ALL full of bullshit. No mighty Wizards in the Sky, no Lord of Darkness below. Its all a fantasy kids.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

look im not about say any names but be cautious when hearing things about God from some people because their are wolves in sheep clothing in this world.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)




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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Hey Diesel, trying to teach love to these cold hearted dudes is tickling my funny bone! hehehehe. What the fuck do they believe in? Let's speculate. They believe that spending all the life studying about Dinosaur bones is extremely important for man kind. What else. oOOooooo how about their men from space that anal probe them day and night? Yea that's some good comforting bullshit to believe in and care about OH! yesss and videotaping GHOSTS for youtube, very fucking important indeed. Whoops! my eggo's just popped up from the atheist toaster


Wouldn't it be nice for you if atheism were so easy to dismiss. Unfortunately atheism is a non-position. Knowing what someone does not believe tells you nothing about what they do believe. None of the atheists I know have ever seen a dinosaur bone or spend much time thinking about them. None of them have ever told me they think men from space probe them, and I don't know any ghost hunters. If someone believed in ghosts, wouldn't they also believe in an afterlife and therefore a God? You haven't seemed to think this through. It seems, the words coming out of our mouths are not easy to counter, and so you seek to put some there that are. What petty and transparent tricks you rely on..


In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs. 
&#8213; Sam Harris


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...well, jesus, the christ...it's an energy and it does heal. Back from the dead? You mean back from the throes of one's lower nature? Sure thing. There's a big difference between jesus and christ. "christos"
> 
> ...the second coming of christ, not jesus. It's adulthood from my perspective. He's to be seen as an example, look at the way his life was described. Seem familiar? The apostles are alive and well. Moses is alive and well, etc. etc... they are fundamentals of human behavior. The metaphor of his 'riding into town on a donkey' is indicative of moving into adulthood.


 Read the story of Lazarus, he supposidly actually brought a person back to life after they were dead...I mean seriously, the Romans wouldve known.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

While I disagree with you, you at least express an *intelligent* position...other than the Sativa moron and others who just want to throw shit against a wall. So freaking boring.



eye exaggerate said:


> ...well, jesus, the christ...it's an energy and it does heal. Back from the dead? You mean back from the throes of one's lower nature? Sure thing. There's a big difference between jesus and christ. "christos"
> 
> ...the second coming of christ, not jesus. It's adulthood from my perspective. He's to be seen as an example, look at the way his life was described. Seem familiar? The apostles are alive and well. Moses is alive and well, etc. etc... they are fundamentals of human behavior. The metaphor of his 'riding into town on a donkey' is indicative of moving into adulthood.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

I M not in disguise. I am freeeeeeeeee the way that I am. They say the Roman's didn't notice that Jesus Raised someone up from the dead, but they don't consider that any record would have been destroyed by the time the Roman Empire disintegrated. That was history, too


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah sure you could , you are mad dude sheer mad .


ok so... you sayin this aint true when it clearly is?


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> ok so... you sayin this aint true when it clearly is?


 So the FBI picked you up one day and for some reason showed you the plans of a (supposedly real) society that is so secret we dont even know if they truely exist?

You're a mental case and nothing you say should be regarded as anything more than psycho ramblings.

Id put you on ignore but I actually get a good laugh reading your mind numbingly stupid posts...I just hope its not making me stupider by reading them.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

My petty tricks are all part of the trade you guys created. I have not revealed anything on this thread that is UBER SECRET. You don't like the Bible, yet it is the most popular book in the world, 100x over harry potter. Besides, pummeling anyone here with the TRUTH of the Lord does not win for me any tastey steak or some free vacation, however I will tell you, my tricks bring to me amusement when I am in the company of those that have little in common with me spiritually. Good Day. Or is it?


Heisenberg said:


> Wouldn't it be nice for you if atheism were so easy to dismiss. Unfortunately atheism is a non-position. Knowing what someone does not believe tells you nothing about what they do believe. None of the atheists I know have ever seen a dinosaur bone or spend much time thinking about them. None of them have ever told me they think men from space probe them, and I don't know any ghost hunters. If someone believed in ghosts, wouldn't they also believe in an afterlife and therefore a God? You haven't seemed to think this through. It seems, the words coming out of our mouths are not easy to counter, and so you seek to put some there that are. What petty and transparent tricks you rely on..
> 
> 
> &#8220;In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.&#8221;
> &#8213; Sam Harris


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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

TogTokes said:


> Atheism is BS too.. It is easier not claiming anything.. But my only claim is that you are ALL full of bullshit. No mighty Wizards in the Sky, no Lord of Darkness below. Its all a fantasy kids.


Guess what, unless you claim that there is a deity, you are an atheist. You seem to be saying anyone who claims there is a diety is full of shit, and those who remain skeptical of claims of a deity are full of shit. This raises the question, what could your position be?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Read the story of Lazarus, he supposidly actually brought a person back to life after they were dead...I mean seriously, the Romans wouldve known.




...I know the story. It's a call to life...to being alive instead of just being (which in most cases involves being run by passions - hell). We wouldn't be debating all this stuff had there been an actual revival of the man. There would be the proof. But then, I think kodak came around a bit later so it's hard to tell...


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I know the story. It's a call to life...to being alive instead of just being (which in most cases involves being run by passions - hell). We wouldn't be debating all this stuff had there been an actual revival of the man. There would be the proof. But then, I think kodak came around a bit later so it's hard to tell...


 So you openly admit the Bible IS full of shit then?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> While I disagree with you, you at least express an *intelligent* position...other than the Sativa moron and others who just want to throw shit against a wall. So freaking boring.





...to disagree is a great thing. What's your take on it?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> So you openly admit the Bible IS full of shit then?


...in which context, sorry. It's a book about people, and some people are full of shit, yes.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Guess what, unless you claim that there is a deity, you are an atheist. You seem to be saying anyone who claims there is a diety is full of shit, and those who remain skeptical of claims of a deity are full of shit. This raises the question, what could your position be?


>>>

Right? "I believe in *nothing*...and anyone who believes in *anything* is stupid".


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

You can see the effect of reading the bible from a young age & taking it literally in diesels posts.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

Sorry...on what?

I'll say this...you believe (apparently) something way different than me...and I would never bash/denegrate you for it. Unlike others here. Basically, if all you've got is ridicule, you have no game, and no real purpose in life other than just being an a-hole.



eye exaggerate said:


> ...to disagree is a great thing. What's your take on it?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> You can see the effect of reading the bible from a young age & taking it literally in diesels posts.



...but I think he's trying. I felt the need to say that. Not stabbing at your post for sure!


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

Oh shit! The war against me is mounting!!! But will I convert to their Gods? 





I don't think so because they are all not like this!!! One True God, Jesus Christ


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Sorry...on what?
> 
> I'll say this...you believe (apparently) something way different than me...and I would never bash/denegrate you for it. Unlike others here. Basically, if all you've got is ridicule, you have no game, and no real purpose in life other than just being an a-hole.




...I was asking your take on literal and metaphorical apprehension of the book. I know you wouldn't bash me, as I wouldn't want to bash anyone else.


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## cannabineer (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


>


I HATE posts like this. It implies that atheists are some sort of primitive brutes. I mean, he didn't even clean&scale the thing. cn


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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> My petty tricks are all part of the trade you guys created. I have not revealed anything on this thread that is UBER SECRET. You don't like the Bible, yet it is the most popular book in the world, 100x over harry potter. Besides, pummeling anyone here with the TRUTH of the Lord does not win for me any tastey steak or some free vacation, however I will tell you, my tricks bring to me amusement when I am in the company of those that have little in common with me spiritually. Good Day. Or is it?


So it amuses you to misrepresent other's positions with absurd claims and then argue against those claims? You have no problem with creating strawmen and then patting yourself on the back when you knock them down? Are you really suggesting a books popularity means anything about it's basis in reality? Really? If Harry Potter _was_ the most popular book of all time, would you be worshiping him? If I had personal experiences that I claimed (and really believed) were proof of Santa's existence would you give those expereinces any weight yourself? We have people in every religion who say they have expieriences that prove thier God to them. Why would you discount those experiences in favor of the God that is popular in your geographic area? You haven't revealed any 'uber secrets' (or anything that resembles evidence) because you do not have any.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I HATE posts like this. It implies that atheists are some sort of primitive brutes. I mean, he didn't even clean&scale the thing. cn




...totally agreed!

-I thought of my baby at that age, no fckn way I'd even pose for a shot like that. Poor kid.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> So the FBI picked you up one day and for some reason showed you the plans of a (supposedly real) society that is so secret we dont even know if they truely exist?
> 
> You're a mental case and nothing you say should be regarded as anything more than psycho ramblings.
> 
> Id put you on ignore but I actually get a good laugh reading your mind numbingly stupid posts...I just hope its not making me stupider by reading them.


you know what ima keep it calm cause ireally dont care. ididnt include all the details and im not bout to, im over it. your blind man im not tryna be funny. go ahead and call me crazy im not phased 1bit. if you or anybody else cant see that God is real and whats in the bible is true and proven true daily by thousands of people your blind and dont want to see, therefore your going to hell for all eternity because you meaningfully chose not to believe in God and do what he says do.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

If you're asking wether I believe the bible is literally true, yes. I believe there's enough evidence to support that it is. 



eye exaggerate said:


> ...I was asking your take on literal and metaphorical apprehension of the book. I know you wouldn't bash me, as I wouldn't want to bash anyone else.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> you know what ima keep it calm cause ireally dont care. ididnt include all the details and im not bout to, im over it. your blind man im not tryna be funny. go ahead and call me crazy im not phased 1bit. if you or anybody else cant see that God is real and whats in the bible is true and proven true daily by thousands of people your blind and dont want to see, therefore your going to hell for all eternity because you meaningfully chose not to believe in God and do what he says do.


 Why'd they pick you? Did you forget to take your tablets that morning?

You remind me of the film "A Beautiful Mind".


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> If you're asking wether I believe the bible is literally true, yes. I believe there's enough evidence to support that it is.


 Just give me ONE example that proves anything in the Bible is true.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


>


utter nonsense designed for people who dont even care to actualy look up what atheism is , here ill educate you ............actually no i wont look it up for yourself and then you will see why that shit your postin is nonsence


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Why'd they pick you? Did you forget to take your tablets that morning?
> 
> You remind me of the film "A Beautiful Mind".





...perhaps then said poster will be a prof some day, huh?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> utter nonsense designed for people who dont even care to actualy look up what atheism is , here ill educate you ............actually no i wont look it up for yourself and then you will see why that shit your postin is nonsence




...no offence dude, but have you actually read a bible?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> If you're asking wether I believe the bible is literally true, yes. I believe there's enough evidence to support that it is.


 such as ?..........................


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...perhaps then said poster will a prof some day, huh?


He was a Professor first and "worked with the CIA" second, said poster above got it the wrong way round... "working with the CIA/FBI" in this context generally prevents people from becoming academics


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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> you know what ima keep it calm cause ireally dont care. ididnt include all the details and im not bout to, im over it. your blind man im not tryna be funny. go ahead and call me crazy im not phased 1bit. if you or anybody else cant see that God is real and whats in the bible is true and proven true daily by thousands of people your blind and dont want to see, therefore your going to hell for all eternity because you meaningfully chose not to believe in God and do what he says do.


If the bible was proven true daily by thousands we wouldn't be having this conversation. Again, you act as if anyone who doesn't see god must be blind, but when we ask you to point to him you can not. We ask questions that should have easy answers, instead it takes you multiple posts to say nothing.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

lets all take a deep breath and review the discussion , ...................still not a scrap of evidence any god anywhere exists .


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> You can see the effect of reading the bible from a young age & taking it literally in diesels posts.


inever read or believed in God as kid and when idid read it went in 1ear and out the other. only until igrew up, read it, tested it in real life, and proved it true did ibelieve in God and the world today is so corrupted and evil they point their dirty little fingers at me and call me a fool but its cool because the wages of sin is death and the path of righteousness is life.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

I have no uber secrets, I am a real man that desires to hide nothing that is of great use to his brothers. Now, you write well, but if you think you are so good at debunking my jokes, why did you use my own technique which you had just mocked moments before by asking about if Harry P was the most popular book ever or that crap about Santa Clause. What do children's tales have to do with an adult atheist, an adult communist, or an adult satan worshipper? 


Heisenberg said:


> So it amuses you to misrepresent other's positions with absurd claims and then argue against those claims? You have no problem with creating strawmen and then patting yourself on the back when you knock them down? Are you really suggesting a books popularity means anything about it's basis in reality? Really? If Harry Potter _was_ the most popular book of all time, would you be worshiping him? If I had personal experiences that I claimed (and really believed) were proof of Santa's existence would you give those expereinces any weight yourself? We have people in every religion who say they have expieriences that prove thier God to them. Why would you discount those experiences in favor of the God that is popular in your geographic area? You haven't revealed any 'uber secrets' (or anything that resembles evidence) because you do not have any.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> you know what ima keep it calm cause ireally dont care. ididnt include all the details and im not bout to, im over it. your blind man im not tryna be funny. go ahead and call me crazy im not phased 1bit. if you or anybody else cant see that God is real and whats in the bible is true and proven true daily by thousands of people your blind and dont want to see, therefore your going to hell for all eternity because you meaningfully chose not to believe in God and do what he says do.


 hell only exists in your mind so im not going to hell , prove it exists and i might be scared otherwise its not very scary , and btw your going to another hell coz you dont believe in allah


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lets all take a deep breath and review the discussion , ...................still not a scrap of evidence any god anywhere exists .




..."if thine eye be single". The sufis say that's what it means to see god - you'll see god in other people - Dunno, just what I've read and am starting to experience.


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## cannabineer (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I made a (simple) analogy. I never said that "the activity of the divine was as immediately discernible as wind an air". On the contrary, the point is that you can't see either wind or God, yet there's plenty of evidence that both exist. AFA Rom 1:20...don't know what to tell you. Pretty self-explanitory.God put enough evidence of His existence out there, and it's up to us to see/discern it. Might be "in your face", but I don't see how you can call it "incorrect".


OK, I overinterpreted your first post, and i assume responsibility for it. However I don't agree that there is plain/simple evidence of divine action. I have looked rather hard. So when you say "God put enough evidence " ... that is a mismatch with my experience. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, but I am familiar with and admit to the futility of proving or disproving the existence of God. I won't try to suck you into such an exercise in mutual frustration.
The question of the action, effect, influence of God on the natural and human world is a big question, one of the Really Bigs in my opinion. As far as i have been able to see, the best, most internally and externally consistent explanations for the way things are&work do not require invoking the divine. (I acknowledge that this approaches a statement of faith on my part, and I'm not here to play Battling Tops with yours.) So to formulate a natural philosophy that requires or benefits from supernatural action, which is the only way to authenticate divine signature, properly requires compelling, testable, reproducible evidence of divine supernatural action. I believe that to be fair. 

To me Romans 1:20 is the worst possible response in the face of honest inquiry. "It's right there, and if you don't see it, **** you." I expect better behavior from credible ambassadors of God. cn


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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> I have no uber secrets, I am a real man that desires to hide nothing that is of great use to his brothers. Now, you write well, but if you think you are so good at debunking my jokes, why did you use my own technique which you had just mocked moments before by asking about if Harry P was the most popular book ever or that crap about Santa Clause. What do children's tales have to do with an adult atheist, an adult communist, or an adult satan worshipper?


I called you out for using a straw man. For ignoring the real position of atheism and instead inserting ridiculous claims that you can easily make fun of. 



> A *straw man* is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet nonequivalent proposition, and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.


What I did was not a strawman. I was simply exploring the implications of your logic. You claimed the bible was more popular than harry potter, implying that it somehow means something. I simply asked if Harry Potter was more popular, would it mean anything? You cited personal experiences as part of your certainty in God. I pointed out that all Gods have people with these experiences. You do not give any credence to their claims but expect us to accept yours.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

My big question for people who follow religion is why do you need it?

Are people really that unhappy in their lives that they need to look at the "grass is greener" beyond?

I dont believe or disbelieve in God, I humbly admit that I dont know nor will I probably ever know...what I do dislike is the branding and dogma each religion uses. All scientific principles could be part of some intelligent design or it could've just been a big cosmic fluke yet religion has to point to a specific God with rules and unbelievable stories.

What I do believe in is what we humans can see and feel and hear, the "physical realm" so to speak as I have accepted that this is all humans can strive for.

Either way, Im perfectly content in my life, sure theres things I would like but I have my own family and all the food, drink, money, etc I need to live and feel no desire to search for a being that I can never prove or disprove.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

Sure. The Dead Sea is still there. Now you give ONE example of anything in the Bible that isn't true.



Harrekin said:


> Just give me ONE example that proves anything in the Bible is true.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> If the bible was proven true daily by thousands we wouldn't be having this conversation. Again, you act as if anyone who doesn't see god must be blind, but when we ask you to point to him you can not. We ask questions that should have easy answers, instead it takes you multiple posts to say nothing.


no your wrong, God is proven daily by thousands and because of the devil getting into peoples mind and fooling them into following him, thats why were having this conversation. if you dont believe in God you are blind because the truth is available to you but people decide they dont want to do it because they wanna do their own thing and have no purpose of God so he doesnt need to exist. but isay to you sir the earthly man is evil because of sin. the wages of sin is death. if every man took on the mindset of we need no purpose of God we would all be wiped clean off this earth. but if every man said he needs God. then we would florish, and their wouldnt be this nonsense you see on the news, none of it. sinners and saints see the world 2 completely different ways. my answers to an unbeliever aint going to be easy, simple, 1post answers because iwant yall to understand what im telling yall so yall arent mislead into believing something ididnt say like the last thread iwas on when mexiblunt was lead into believing zombies for example and iguess igo overboard and skim the answer. for that i appoligize. icare about yall man saints and sinners in the whole world. God aint nothing funny this is serious and iget so mad when some of yall be calling God out like that. the bible has been proven by me and countless others around the world. everthing iread in the bible happens the exact same way it says, iseen and been through it, ihave no reason to lie and i and thousands others arent crazy we know the truth. God loves us all and doesn't want anybody to go to hell, He'll forgive you for whatever it is you did in your life if your truely sorry.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Sure. The Dead Sea is still there. Now you give ONE example of anything in the Bible that isn't true.


 War in Heaven, End of Days, Noahs Flood, Zombie Jesus, Adam and Eve, Genesis, Moses' tablets, Virgin Birth, Hell...I could go on and on, it'd be a shorter list naming the things that ARE true...like people lived a long time ago.


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 14, 2011)

The following are stories from the bible and not to be taken literally:


Adam and Eve
Noah's Ark
Moses and The Red Sea
Jesus healing the blind


Oh, lets not forget Mary's immaculate conception of Jesus.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> My big question for people who follow religion is why do you need it?
> 
> Are people really that unhappy in their lives that they need to look at the "grass is greener" beyond?
> 
> ...




"Religion is a collection of behavior that is only unified in our Western conception of it. It need not have a natural unity. There is no reason to assume, and good reason not to assume, that all religious behavior evolved together at the same time in response to a single shift in the environment. This article does not look at the religion as a unified entity and seek a definition of its essence. Instead, it looks at what science needs 
to know in order to discover how and why religion came into existence as a human behavior. What does science need to know about religion, or how should religion be defined so that science can look at it? A definition that refers to observable behavior is required. Then, a preliminary hypothesis to orient observations is proposed. I suggest a preliminary hypothesis consisting of three stages in the evolution of religion: (1) a cognizer of unobservable agents, (2) a sacred category classifier, and (3) a motivator for public sacrifice. Each one of these stages is a nucleus of modern anthropological theorizing. Although they all come together in the Western folk concept of religion, this article proposes that they are independent evolutionary complexes that should not be lumped together, but should be investigated as separate types of religious behavior."

http://www.anpere.net/2007/2.pdf <---I thought this was pretty cool.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

You sound like someone whom I could sit down with some of my man Wheezer's Romulan and have a great convo. My problem here is that A) I can't type, B) it's literally costing me $ to be here (I never expected as much activity in these threads. I'm not used to it.) So I can't really do any arguments much justice. However...I will do my best to respond to anything you,Eye, Heisenburg and the few other intelligent/sincere people here ask me. I won't deal with people like Sativa...or any other "experts" who have never even opened a Bible. I honestly don't understand their motivation. I'm about as "nice" of a guy you'd ever meet. I don't jam my beliefs down people's throats. I really only participate in threads like this to defend the Biblical position when I see it grossly misinterpreted. So why people feel the need to bash me or my beliefs baffles me. If you don't believe, and my beliefs aren't harming you, stfu and go away! I mean..what is the net expectation? "Ok...you're right. I'm a fool for believing in God. I now have no hope of eternity." wtf? Why would people be that miserable that they'd want to spread it? Again...not talking about you.



cannabineer said:


> OK, I overinterpreted your first post, and i assume responsibility for it. However I don't agree that there is plain/simple evidence of divine action. I have looked rather hard. So when you say "God put enough evidence " ... that is a mismatch with my experience. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, but I am familiar with and admit to the futility of proving or disproving the existence of God. I won't try to suck you into such an exercise in mutual frustration.
> The question of the action, effect, influence of God on the natural and human world is a big question, one of the Really Bigs in my opinion. As far as i have been able to see, the best, most internally and externally consistent explanations for the way things are&work do not require invoking the divine. (I acknowledge that this approaches a statement of faith on my part, and I'm not here to play Battling Tops with yours.) So to formulate a natural philosophy that requires or benefits from supernatural action, which is the only way to authenticate divine signature, properly requires compelling, testable, reproducible evidence of divine supernatural action. I believe that to be fair.
> 
> To me Romans 1:20 is the worst possible response in the face of honest inquiry. "It's right there, and if you don't see it, **** you." I expect better behavior from credible ambassadors of God. cn


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

who are yall to say dont take this piece or that piece seriously when yall dont even believe in God in the first place? if you dont believe then stay on that side of fence but dont come on this side and say this and that arent real. if everything else in the bible is proved true then the stories are true too.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm still on the fence as to whether you're a troll like Sativa or not. So I'll give you one more chance. Find a scripture in the Bible that you feel is untrue. Be specific, and support your claim. If you Google something, we're done.



Harrekin said:


> War in Heaven, End of Days, Noahs Flood, Zombie Jesus, Adam and Eve, Genesis, Moses' tablets, Virgin Birth, Hell...I could go on and on, it'd be a shorter list naming the things that ARE true...like people lived a long time ago.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> The following are stories from the bible and not to be taken literally:
> 
> 
> Adam and Eve
> ...


>>>

Ok...now pick one and explain exactly how/why it isn't true.


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## cannabineer (Oct 14, 2011)

That would be fun, SoCaldrums.

Romulan goooood. 





cn


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

I recently posted a review elsewhere of 3 different Roms I have. Indoor, outdoor, and crossed with Agent Orange. http://www.marijuanareviews.com/romulan-private-dealer-drums-8554.html VERY trippy stuff. Get to SoCal and we'll have an...unusual day.



cannabineer said:


> That would be fun, SoCaldrums.
> 
> Romulan goooood.
> 
> ...


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Sure. The Dead Sea is still there. Now you give ONE example of anything in the Bible that isn't true.


noahs flood , nuff said


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

Your beliefs cause me to lose sleep @ night.. as a matter of fact it is coming on 10 am & I still have to get to sleep soon. So until we can convert all these thiests, unrest in the streets & in our homes !


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> no your wrong, God is proven daily by thousands and because of the devil getting into peoples mind and fooling them into following him, thats why were having this conversation. if you dont believe in God you are blind because the truth is available to you but people decide they dont want to do it because they wanna do their own thing and have no purpose of God so he doesnt need to exist. but isay to you sir the earthly man is evil because of sin. the wages of sin is death. if every man took on the mindset of we need no purpose of God we would all be wiped clean off this earth. but if every man said he needs God. then we would florish, and their wouldnt be this nonsense you see on the news, none of it. sinners and saints see the world 2 completely different ways. my answers to an unbeliever aint going to be easy, simple, 1post answers because iwant yall to understand what im telling yall so yall arent mislead into believing something ididnt say like the last thread iwas on when mexiblunt was lead into believing zombies for example and iguess igo overboard and skim the answer. for that i appoligize. icare about yall man saints and sinners in the whole world. God aint nothing funny this is serious and iget so mad when some of yall be calling God out like that. the bible has been proven by me and countless others around the world. everthing iread in the bible happens the exact same way it says, iseen and been through it, ihave no reason to lie and i and thousands others arent crazy we know the truth. God loves us all and doesn't want anybody to go to hell, He'll forgive you for whatever it is you did in your life if your truely sorry.[/QUOTE
> you sound like the guy smoking crack on every corner i go past , prove its real dude otherwise it didnt happen .


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I'm still on the fence as to whether you're a troll like Sativa or not. So I'll give you one more chance. Find a scripture in the Bible that you feel is untrue. Be specific, and support your claim. If you Google something, we're done.


 Im not trolling, I see the Bible as a useful tool for teaching morality, but taking it literally is ridiculous.
War in Heaven: The Angels split onto two sides and a war was waged in the sky. Lucifer the Fallen Star an Archangel on one side and God on the other (each with their posse of Angels). It doesnt make sense even if I was a believer. Why didnt God just wipe the "bad lads" from existance?
End of Days: All the babble about the Lamb slaying the multi headed dragon? Come on man, its prophetic and even most theologians dont take it seriously.
Noahs Flood: Two of every species on a ship because the whole world was flooded?
Zombie Jesus: I believe that there was infact a preacher named Jesus who was crucified, Roman records confirm this, but rising from the dead? Theres no evidence of this except the Bible, and something cannot prove itself correct purely because its written, its a logical fallacy.
Adam and Eve: Do I even need to go into this?
Genesis: The Universe was not created in 7 day, woman was not made from the rib of a man and we didnt all come from two white people chilling in a garden eating apples
Moses' Tablets: Where is the Arc of the Covenent now?
Virgin Birth: Impossible without believing in God
Hell: Even most theologians disagree with the fire and brimstone version in the Bible, and it doesnt make sense, God sent the loser of the "War in Heaven" to Hell to torture people? He was evil anyway apparently, so didnt he get the perfect job?

Honestly Im not trolling, personal faith is cool and Iv much respect for people who make up their own mind about what to believe...but to believe a book so full of nonsense that it makes Hollywood look uncreative just because the man in cloth told you to? Come on man, wake up and make up your own beliefs, at least then they'll be truely relevant to you.

Please bear in mind Im from Eire, its one of the most religiously Christian nations on the entire planet... I read the Bible multiple times cover to cover as a child and went to mass daily, so please dont try tell me I dont know anything about it just cos I dont believe it.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

still i await one single piece of evidence any of the thousands of gods humans have thought up of to be true , its just not happening.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Your beliefs cause me to lose sleep @ night.. as a matter of fact it is coming on 10 am & I still have to get to sleep soon. So until we can convert all these thiests, unrest in the streets & in our homes !


this is the dumbest crap iever heard in my life, are you foreal? you dont know what your saying or what the outcome will be of this. idont know if you know or not but your a satanist.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

and lol at socaldrums hes yet to come up with one single point to prove his existance of his god , yet he defends it like its his baby , its funny to me just sheer comedy .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

lol @ diesel with his threats of his imaginary hell lol


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

That's because there's only one God. Afa "Noahs Flood...enough said"...weak. I won't respond to you again. You have no game at all. You have no idea what the Bible says, yet you're SURE it's false. Go to the Answers in Genesis site if you really want to hear more articulate arguments than I can make on Noah's Flood...but you won't. You're just a mean-spirited troll with no game. Enough said.



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> still i await one single piece of evidence any of the thousands of gods humans have thought up of to be true , its just not happening.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

peace to everyone of yall. yall chose not to believe in God, thats on yall, when yall die their will be no excuses for you to run to. ihope yall reallize before its too late. good luck.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

I see you are not a familiar to this section of RIU.. but in the, Long.. Vast.. Frustrating history of these Threads. One thing Heisen, Pada, Tyler & so many others have taught us is that.. .

*ATHIESTS : 1 THEISTS : 0 *


*BOOHYAH !*


SoCaldrums said:


> That's because there's only one God. Afa "Noahs Flood...enough said"...weak. I won't respond to you again. You have no game at all. You have no idea what the Bible says, yet you're SURE it's false. Go to the Answers in Genesis site if you really want to hear more articulate arguments than I can make on Noah's Flood...but you won't. You're just a mean-spirited troll with no game. Enough said.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> and lol at socaldrums hes yet to come up with one single point to prove his existance of his god , yet he defends it like its his baby , its funny to me just sheer comedy .



The most useful lesson life has given me is that the fools often are right. -Winston Churchill

...sorry man, but it IS his child.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> That's because there's only one God. Afa "Noahs Flood...enough said"...weak. I won't respond to you again. You have no game at all. You have no idea what the Bible says, yet you're SURE it's false. Go to the Answers in Genesis site if you really want to hear more articulate arguments than I can make on Noah's Flood...but you won't. You're just a mean-spirited troll with no game. Enough said.


your bible is full of bullshite , prove one single verse is true , oh wait you cant lol its all freakin nonsense the koran makes more sense and thats full of bullshit to , id rather be a freakin muzzer than believe in the christian bible , worship the sadistic homophobic sick asss mass murdering self rightouis god of the bible , fuck no .


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

Funny thing is, but the only one that wants you to accept is your redeemer when your old wrinkly carcass gives up the ghost. This thread is beat, maybe Ill be back with some more jokes later


Heisenberg said:


> I called you out for using a straw man. For ignoring the real position of atheism and instead inserting ridiculous claims that you can easily make fun of.
> 
> 
> 
> What I did was not a strawman. I was simply exploring the implications of your logic. You claimed the bible was more popular than harry potter, implying that it somehow means something. I simply asked if Harry Potter was more popular, would it mean anything? You cited personal experiences as part of your certainty in God. I pointed out that all Gods have people with these experiences. You do not give any credence to their claims but expect us to accept yours.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> That's because there's only one God. Afa "Noahs Flood...enough said"...weak. I won't respond to you again. You have no game at all. You have no idea what the Bible says, yet you're SURE it's false. Go to the Answers in Genesis site if you really want to hear more articulate arguments than I can make on Noah's Flood...but you won't. You're just a mean-spirited troll with no game. Enough said.


 there is no evidence of noahs flood , we have the same amount of water on the planet as we did 10 000 years ago you dumb fuck , unless your god sucked the water back up his ass then re-aranged all the bones in the layers of earth to make it look like it never happend then errrrrrrrrrrrrr it never happend . fuck some people are so indoctrinated with this shit they cant think straight .


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

I always wondered this.. Since Jesus & God obviously did not hit it out of the Park w/ their 1st attempt @ teaching the people about loving thy neighbor & turning the other cheek.. Why not come back & do it again? Like, we have the World Wide Web now & I am Sure Jesus would have Millions of Followers on Twitter to get his Message out Faster.. Just saying. God sure did pick the wrong point in history to try and "Spread the Word"


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> peace to everyone of yall. yall chose not to believe in God, thats on yall, when yall die their will be no excuses for you to run to. ihope yall reallize before its too late. good luck.


And I hope the FBI dont pick you up again and teach you any more scary uber secret plans...


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Funny thing is, but the only one that wants you to accept is your redeemer when your old wrinkly carcass gives up the ghost. This thread is beat, maybe Ill be back with some more jokes later


 sounds like heinsberg dished you some interlect you couldnt comprehend , sucks dont it lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I always wondered this.. Since Jesus & God obviously did not hit it out of the Park w/ their 1st attempt @ teaching the people about loving thy neighbor & turning the other cheek.. Why not come back & do it again? Like, we have the World Wide Web now & I am Sure Jesus would have Millions of Followers on Twitter to get his Message out Faster.. Just saying. God sure did pick the wrong point in history to try and "Spread the Word"


yeah funny thing is he chose a freakin paper back book to spread his word lol could of at least put it on dvd


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

Pics or it never happened !



diesel15 said:


> the fbi snatched me up 1day and showed me the ''plan'' of the illuminati, and let me say, the devil himself wrote it, no doubts about it. If you ever saw it you will be creeped out to the point of nightmares every night for a week!


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

You and your STUPID friends that call US stupid, can't realize that maybe God doesn't want RETARDS THAT NEED THINGS PROVEN TO THEM to have a good afterlife. Yea, afterlife is for pussies you say. Well that's fine because arguing with retards is like winning the special olympics. ATHEISTS 1 CHRISTIANS 0, oh no who is the bigger retard! YOUUUUUUUUUUU



ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> how is it seriousley possible people believe in gods without evidence , anything else in life requires evidence, to believe its true , yet when it comes to believing in a god , stupid people disregard this vital point , why is this ? its truly shocking


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

Got it Right Inscribing the Commandments in Stone but his publisher Screwed him on the Bible


ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> yeah funny thing is he chose a freakin paper back book to spread his word lol could of at least put it on dvd


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

<sigh> I wish you people would just keep it simple. One at a time. Just makes it easier/more readable. Maybe number your "questions".

1) Show me the scripture in the Bible about the War in Heaven.
2) "Most theologians don't take the book of Rev seriously"?? False.
3)Check out Answers in Genesis. You won't *like* the answers, but they exist.
4) Read The Case for Christ. Written by an ex-althiest lawyer who set out to prove the Bible was false. He wound up getting converted because of the overwhelming evidence of Jesus' being raised from the tomb. You are VERY wrong here. There's TONS of evidence...not the least of which is that a band of his followers, who were weak, terrified men when they saw Him die, sudden;y became powerful, bold witnesses who all were horribly killed for that belief. What would they die horribly for something they *knew* was false?
5)Don't see a problem
6) Don't know. Not a big deal.
7)If there's a God, one who created the whole world, why would virgin birth be so hard to believe? I don't even get this argument.
 Not sure about your discription of hell, but I know this: Jesus talked about it a lot. A seperate topic of convo...but I'll ask you this: if there is no hell, why did Jesus even come here?
9) Yep...ex-RCC. Woulda bet the house. You certainly didn't read the bible *as* a Catholic. Or if you did it wasn't with their approval. Wether the RCC is Christian or not is another topic. I was one. Going to church makes you a "Christian" like standing in a garage makes you a car.



Harrekin said:


> Im not trolling, I see the Bible as a useful tool for teaching morality, but taking it literally is ridiculous.
> War in Heaven: The Angels split onto two sides and a war was waged in the sky. Lucifer the Fallen Star an Archangel on one side and God on the other (each with their posse of Angels). It doesnt make sense even if I was a believer. Why didnt God just wipe the "bad lads" from existance?
> End of Days: All the babble about the Lamb slaying the multi headed dragon? Come on man, its prophetic and even most theologians dont take it seriously.
> Noahs Flood: Two of every species on a ship because the whole world was flooded?
> ...


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

have any of you weirdos err sorrry religious folk , ever thought how big a ark would have to be to fit every animal in the world on , i mean fuck could you even consider trying to gather two of every species we have today in a orderly fashion and load them on a ship we struggle to put a crocodile on a ship lol .it would take fuckin years even with todays technology .


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 14, 2011)

Ok I'll take Noah's Ark as an example.

The people of that time had no knowledge of the world. These people had a tiny piece of land that they thought was the world. This is the reason why the world was first thought to be flat. If there was a flood, it would have came from intense rains and flooding of a river or a lake that was near Noah's home. We all know Noah couldn't have built a mamoth Ark to hold 2 of each gender of millions of species of animals. It's not possible. There is no way a female tiger is going to be in the very same ark with her prey without eating it. Especially when they ark was floating for 40 days. 

Come on. The story was seriously exaggerated to the point where it became a fable. The flood consisted of a body of water overfilling and Noah took his prized livestock with him. The idea of taking 2 of each gender of animal on his farm fits the story more because if he didn't take 2 the guy would be out of some serious food and cash. 


This is all theoretical of course.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

DEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR ! good job sailor!


RawBudzski said:


> I see you are not a familiar to this section of RIU.. but in the, Long.. Vast.. Frustrating history of these Threads. One thing Heisen, Pada, Tyler & so many others have taught us is that.. .
> 
> *ATHIESTS : 1 THEISTS : 0 *
> 
> ...


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> You and your STUPID friends that call US stupid, can't realize that maybe God doesn't want RETARDS THAT NEED THINGS PROVEN TO THEM to have a good afterlife. Yea, afterlife is for pussies you say. Well that's fine because arguing with retards is like winning the special olympics. ATHEISTS 1 CHRISTIANS 0, oh no who is the bigger retard! YOUUUUUUUUUUU


no you lose dude , big time , you have been interlectualy pawwned and now this is the best come back you have lol seriousley mate , if your gonna fight for something so bad , at least do your research , and understand the position your fighting for , other wise you just look stupid like you do now .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

oh right so your now changing what gods word says and fitting it perfectly to suit yourself , guess what , if its open to interpration like you say , i enterpratate it differently to you , making it all bull shit .


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 14, 2011)

You're stupid. 

NO you're stupid. 

NO! YOU'RE STUPID!

I'M TELLING MOM!


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

I guess you have been around RIU longer than I expected.. you stole my favorite line! & used it on me! Trolling in the rough!. *<3*


ChronicObsession said:


> DEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR ! good job sailor!


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

I can't beleive you guys weren't crusaded a few hundreds of years ago. Only a small portion of the planet had been educated about Christ or what? Since when did people crusade for those pieces of crap Ghandi or Muhammad to a large portion of the planet? ? Who is your God???


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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> You and your STUPID friends that call US stupid, can't realize that maybe God doesn't want *RETARDS* THAT NEED THINGS PROVEN TO THEM to have a good afterlife. Yea, afterlife is for pussies you say. Well that's fine because arguing with *retards* is like winning the special olympics. ATHEISTS 1 CHRISTIANS 0, oh no *who is the bigger retard*! YOUUUUUUUUUUU


Sounds a bit like special pleading to me. The best understanding of reality we have comes from an evidential approach to the truth. This evidence based way of interpreting reality is responsible for nearly everything that gives you comfort or hope in your life. You yourself demand evidence for claims that affect you or your loved ones. You don't take drugs just because some old book says they work. You wouldn't want to use hygiene products that were not held up to standards of testing. If your child was kicked out of school for being a red head and you told them you didn't understand, would you accept the excuse that maybe schools just don't want retarded redheads? I am guessing you would want rationale for this decision. To apply this standard of evidence to everything in your life but God is an inconsistency, and this inconsistency is what the OP doesn't understand. To explain it by saying God doesn't want people to have things proven to them would seem to damn you to hell along with the rest of us. Which one of us sounds like the bigger retard?


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

Thx for calling me out like that. Shows how much you know. Again I will teach you what you know. Going to hell is a gradual process. It starts while you are still alive. This is you here below now.





and the next photo is actually one I made just a moment ago especially for you and your friends. This is what your afterlife might be if you dn't jsut STFU and repent to the Lord Jesus Christ. haha!







ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no you lose dude , big time , you have been interlectualy pawwned and now this is the best come back you have lol seriousley mate , if your gonna fight for something so bad , at least do your research , and understand the position your fighting for , other wise you just look stupid like you do now .


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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Thx for calling me out like that. Shows how much you know. Again I will teach you what you know. Going to hell is a gradual process. It starts while you are still alive. This is you here below now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which one of us is saying "Wah"?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Oh shit! The war against me is mounting!!! But will I convert to their Gods?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jesus is not the one true messiah. You blaspheme the one TRUE TRUE god, God savior, the prophet Ronald McDonald.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> <sigh> I wish you people would just keep it simple. One at a time. Just makes it easier/more readable. Maybe number your "questions".
> 
> 1) Show me the scripture in the Bible about the War in Heaven.
> 2) "Most theologians don't take the book of Rev seriously"?? False.
> ...


 You offer nothing at all, it was the RCC that basically wrote the Bible...Peter being the first Pope?

I used to believe the fairy stories when I was young, so yes I read the Bible avidly as a believer.

Again your rebuttal is weak-sauce as usual, you offer no evidence to back up your claims at all and go for the sneaky ad hominem attacks as usual.

One for you, what about the Gospel of Thomas, the other Codex's and the other Dead Sea Scrolls that were EXCLUDED from the Bible and put on the Vaticans banned texts list?

At least some of them actually make sense, like how they state Jesus said Heaven is in all of us, and through being good people we'll find happiness? 

Gospel of Thomas: 

Verse 3: Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you."
Verse 77: "I am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there"

At least this book doesnt make Jesus out to be some zombie overlord, more a enlightened teacher trying to get people to live their lives to be the best people they can be...yet it was denied by the Christians because it doesnt allow the Church power over people...strange that one.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

It's clear that things got screwed up along the way. But

catholic (adj.) 
mid-14c., "of the doctrines of the ancient Church," literally "universally accepted," from Fr. catholique, from L.L. catholicus "universal, general," from Gk. katholikos, from phrase kath' holou "on the whole, in general," from kata "about" + gen. of holos "whole" (see safe (adj.)). Applied to the Church in Rome c.1554, after the Reformation began. General sense of "of interest to all, universal" is from 1550s. As a noun, attested from 1560s.

...though it may not be of interest to all, it started as an approach to unifying all people.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Pics or it never happened !


aint no pics, so it never happened then, im not trippin yall dont believe me. and for the record they didnt just out the blue start talking to me about that crap either. but it never happened so it doesnt matter anyway, right?


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> have any of you weirdos err sorrry religious folk , ever thought how big a ark would have to be to fit every animal in the world on , i mean fuck could you even consider trying to gather two of every species we have today in a orderly fashion and load them on a ship we struggle to put a crocodile on a ship lol .it would take fuckin years even with todays technology .


the bible gives the exact lengths. and yes it took many years and the people called noah crazy also.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> aint no pics, so it never happened then, im not trippin yall dont believe me. and for the record they didnt just out the blue start talking to me about that crap either. but it never happened so it doesnt matter anyway, right?


 Come on man, tell us your fantastical tale...if there is some fucked up plan to take over the world its your duty as a loving Christian to tell us first. And as a Christian you cant hold what we've said previously against us, cos your Lord teaches forgivness


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> the bible gives the exact lengths. and yes it took many years and the people called noah crazy also.


 So he fit a pair of every animal of every species in a boat 450ft long, 75ft wide and 45ft tall? I call epic raging bullshit on that dude.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

...the gnostics say that the ark is one of man's bodies. I think it also points to a zen expression (koan, I think) "before enlightenment chop wood carry water - after enlightenment chop wood carry water". The 'animals' are still with him but he's driving the boat now. It may point also to how useful one's 'lesser' traits are in the 'great work'.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Come on man, tell us your fantastical tale...if there is some fucked up plan to take over the world its your duty as a loving Christian to tell us first. And as a Christian you cant hold what we've said previously against us, cos your Lord teaches forgivness


im not telling yall nothin. but iwill say the bible speaks about the last days, which is happening as it is written. soon their will be a 1world government and they will require every person to take a ''chip in your hand or forehead'' as written, this chip is the mark of the beast. all who takes this chip will not see heaven. but if you dont take this chip you cant buy or sell anything not even food. dont believe me look it up online. their will be famine, pestilence, wars, and rumores of wars, natural disasters in divers places. as it is written, it is news articles about storms and natural things happening more frequently. look it up. fearful things which cause mens heart to fail. things wasnt like this years ago. iremember icould go to sleep without locking the door. now, you better not leave it unlocked at night. things are progressively getting worse in the world, but yall dont believe, so what isay dont matter to yall anyway.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> So he fit a pair of every animal of every species in a boat 450ft long, 75ft wide and 45ft tall? I call epic raging bullshit on that dude.


idont know where you got them numbers from but ill look in the bible and post them when icome back


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## Basshead (Oct 14, 2011)

for a while people believed in noah's ark because of the Bible. Eventually common folks wised up enough(but not all of them) to comprehend what science calls "unnatural selection". Its been written into the Bible for years at a comprehensive level for common folks. My evidence of God is Nature.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> im not telling yall nothin. but iwill say the bible speaks about the last days, which is happening as it is written. soon their will be a 1world government and they will require every person to take a ''chip in your hand or forehead'' as written, this chip is the mark of the beast. all who takes this chip will not see heaven. but if you dont take this chip you cant buy or sell anything not even food. dont believe me look it up online. their will be famine, pestilence, wars, and rumores of wars, natural disasters in divers places. as it is written, it is news articles about storms and natural things happening more frequently. look it up. fearful things which cause mens heart to fail. things wasnt like this years ago. iremember icould go to sleep without locking the door. now, you better not leave it unlocked at night. things are progressively getting worse in the world, but yall dont believe, so what isay dont matter to yall anyway.


 You realise all those "signs" you point to have been happening for thousands of years?

And the measurements are in "cubits" in the Bible of which one is roughly the length of your elbow to your finger.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Basshead said:


> My evidence of God is Nature.



...that's cool. Is your avatar indicative of your 'redness' and relation to nature? Looks Iroquois to me.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

The devil's disciples, they don't even know that they are riding along with satan the giant homo angel, it's rediculous, anyway, those guys are constantly asking for numbers and shit to PROVE wrong that a loving God exists. they question stuff in the bible all the time. what happened to trust? They trust imaginary figures like Uncle Sam Wrinkly Balls but not in a loving Creator that they can't touch or lick with their tongue?? Got disappointed with all the fairy tales that YOU had proven MADE UP? and now you want to prove that the bible is just another fairy tale because stuff that happened thousands of years ago doesn't have any PHOTOS????? ahhhhhhhh, this is a circlejerk but noone is coming up with the good stuff from inside


diesel15 said:


> idont know where you got them numbers from but ill look in the bible and post them when icome back


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 14, 2011)

ima continue to ask the same question that sativa high is, but im turnin it around on him. why dont YOU give me proof god doesnt exist. you sayin that he doesnt isnt a valid answer either. you can try and say it whatever way you want, but you're an athiest you believe none of the gods are real. now do you have anythin sayin you're right? OH SHIT you dont! so once again you're just as bad as a radical religious person just sayin "oh haha i dont see no evidence faggot morons yall are stupid" thats all ive seen from you bro and lemme tell you that aint shit in an argument


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

Genesis ch.6 v.15

... The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, the height of it thirty cubits.

a cubit can vary person to person so them #'s you got aren't stable.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> Genesis ch.6 v.15
> 
> ... The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, the height of it thirty cubits.
> 
> a cubit can vary person to person so them #'s you got aren't stable.


they said noah was 600 when he built the arc...thats the only thing i have to say to discredit that story. not to say there wasnt a flood, but noah def. didnt build that arc


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> they said noah was 600 when he built the arc...thats the only thing i have to say to discredit that story. not to say there wasnt a flood, but noah def. didnt build that arc


yeah, isee what you mean but at the same time iknow/knew people who believed in God so much they lived to see very old ages. my great great grandma up stairs watching tv right now, people dont even be believing me when isay great great so ibelieve it.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

...600 can be "final mem" - In the Sefer Yetzirah, the letter Mem is King over Water.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

and we arive at the same point ....................still not one scrap of evidence aq god exists , so frustrating for some lmao


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> the bible gives the exact lengths. and yes it took many years and the people called noah crazy also.


 yeah so how come we can dig up dinosaurs yet we cant dig up a single bone from noahs flood lol if everything was wiped out at the same time we should be able to find everything at that one level lol


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## silasraven (Oct 14, 2011)

i cant believe this is still going on. cool that the talk is mellow but somehow it just doesn't hold as much w/e. im ready to meet an atheist who doesnt care about anything but wheres my lighter for the peace pipe


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## ghantron (Oct 14, 2011)

i can imagine a dandelion with razor blades for roots, and each petal is an albino elephant... Prove it doesn't exist. you cant. but its just so irrational that you wont believe it unless you were born into a society that worshipped it. The atheist relies on the lack of scientific or rational evidence from the believer to prove god exists. A completely faith based idea is irrational, and that is where the atheist finds his home, in rational ideas which can be backed by physical not (anecdotal)evidence


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> and we arive at the same point ....................still not one scrap of evidence aq god exists , so frustrating for some lmao


...yeah, but you're still dodging questions like a politician. Have you read the bible? Do you understand the basic works in it? Do you understand that those basic works make up the 'esoteric' aspect of 'religion'. It is hidden or veiled not by people but by your own understanding. A clear understanding may come if you can move your 'creative power' into golgotha - the place of the skull - where the 'cross' is - where matter and the immaterial join.  Dude, you're not frustrating to me at all, but I can't speak for everyone.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 14, 2011)

i dont know about, but i have seen albino elephants and a rose with razors for roots brother





ghantron said:


> i can imagine a dandelion with razor blades for roots, and each petal is an albino elephant... Prove it doesn't exist. you cant. but its just so irrational that you wont believe it unless you were born into a society that worshipped it. The atheist relies on the lack of scientific or rational evidence from the believer to prove god exists. A completely faith based idea is irrational, and that is where the atheist finds his home, in rational ideas which can be backed by physical not (anecdotal)evidence


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

ghantron said:


> i can imagine a dandelion with razor blades for roots, and each petal is an albino elephant... Prove it doesn't exist. you cant. but its just so irrational that you wont believe it unless you were born into a society that worshipped it. The atheist relies on the lack of scientific or rational evidence from the believer to prove god exists. A completely faith based idea is irrational, and that is where the atheist finds his home, in rational ideas which can be backed by physical not (anecdotal)evidence


...ok, good. Now what?


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## olylifter420 (Oct 14, 2011)

tsh is a retard brother. this guy just piles up arguments from other outstanding atheists on here and puts his twist into it. well, the stupid twist if you may... he thinks he is smart and that is the funny part to it... that he dont see how dumb he looks to others, but in his mind he is extremely extremely intelligent.




eye exaggerate said:


> ...yeah, but you're still dodging questions like a politician.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read the bible? Do you understand the basic works in it? Do you understand that those basic works make up the 'esoteric' aspect of 'religion'. It is hidden or veiled not by people but by your own understanding. A clear understanding may come if you can move your 'creative power' into golgotha - the place of the skull - where the 'cross' is - where matter and the immaterial join.  Dude, you're not frustrating to me at all, but I can't speak for everyone.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> tsh is a retard brother. this guy just piles up arguments from other outstanding atheists on here and puts his twist into it. well, the stupid twist if you may... he thinks he is smart and that is the funny part to it... that he dont see how dumb he looks to others, but in his mind he is extremely extremely intelligent.


...I find him harmless. He knows he's harmless. The whole damn thing is harmless! Sorry, got a little nicholson there.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...yeah, but you're still dodging questions like a politician. Have you read the bible? Do you understand the basic works in it? Do you understand that those basic works make up the 'esoteric' aspect of 'religion'. It is hidden or veiled not by people but by your own understanding. A clear understanding may come if you can move your 'creative power' into golgotha - the place of the skull - where the 'cross' is - where matter and the immaterial join.  Dude, you're not frustrating to me at all, but I can't speak for everyone.


if he read the bible he would know that not everything in it is babblin nonsense and they do have truth in the bible. thats askin too much from him tho


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> if he read the bible he would know that not everything in it is babblin nonsense and they do have truth in the bible. thats askin too much from him tho


If you read the Bible you find a lot of crazy shit.
Bitches gettin their Dad drunk to fuck him.
2 month Ceremonies for Dad's death, but burry mom in the yard.
There's more.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Wouldn't it be nice for you if atheism were so easy to dismiss. Unfortunately atheism is a non-position. Knowing what someone does not believe tells you nothing about what they do believe. None of the atheists I know have ever seen a dinosaur bone or spend much time thinking about them. None of them have ever told me they think men from space probe them, and I don't know any ghost hunters. If someone believed in ghosts, wouldn't they also believe in an afterlife and therefore a God? You haven't seemed to think this through. It seems, the words coming out of our mouths are not easy to counter, and so you seek to put some there that are. What petty and transparent tricks you rely on..
> 
> 
> In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.
> &#8213; Sam Harris


You're right in saying atheism takes no position. However people like sativa take a position by saying god does not exist. They take a stance and request evidence while claiming they have their own evidence. If others need evidence to cover their position then why shouldn't sativa?  (smile means I'm ready for a friendly debate or conclusion).


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> If you read the Bible you find a lot of crazy shit.
> Bitches gettin their Dad drunk to fuck him.
> 2 month Ceremonies for Dad's death, but burry mom in the yard.
> There's more.


laugh out loud - there, that's for sure 10 characters...


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ha ha ha your desperate dude ,your hysterical over a slight miswording i typed ,i was supposed to type 'your ignoring facts not evidence ,i can understand your excitment that i typed something incorrectly but it still dosent back up your argument in anyway , how could it even be possible to have evidence something dosent exist you total moron ? anyway more to the point still not one scrap of evidence your god exists lmao .


 what facts am I ignoring then?
Besides I don have an argument, you do. Check post 58 to see your argument if you forgot already.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> if he read the bible he would know that not everything in it is babblin nonsense and they do have truth in the bible. thats askin too much from him tho


...I see what you're saying.  But I also see how fckn confusing that thing can be!

Hey, I just realized that I've hit 'like' homeostasis! hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> show me a link to where ive said i have evidence a god dosent exist lol ive said many times i cant prove a god dosent exist but i lack the belief that one does then you go on shouting prove he dosent blah blah , same old rubbish wich countless inteligent people have gone over over n over again with you , i would choose to ignore you now coz i find you tedious , but im not gonna let you spread nonsense in my thread , so yeah .
> and more to the point still not one scrap of evidence for your god existing lmao.


Again check post 58, you said I'm ignoring evidence. Then you said oh nevermind you're ignoring facts. Either way what am I ignoring?
And again it doesn't matter you'rean athiest. You made a stance saying you have evidence I ignore.
And again I didn't claim to have evidence, unlike you.
And again WHAT FACTS DO YOU HAVE THAT IM IGNORING? ANSWER THE QUESTION SATIVA, IF YOU DON'T ANSWER IN THE NEXT POST, EVERYONE WILL KNOW YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT LOL.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> hey heppatitus your time would be better spent , on your knees praying to your invisible friend up above , couldnt you pray yourself some credibal evidence he exists so you can stop looking so stupid infront the internetz people lmao.


Oh I look stupid? How do I look stupid? I'm asking you a question that you keep avoiding. I take no stance in this argument. So, again, how do I look stupid?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 14, 2011)

your ignoring the FACTtheres no evidence for your god


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## boneheadbob (Oct 14, 2011)

Define evidence smartypants


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

The sun is evidence of Ra. Was he real? We don't know.


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## boneheadbob (Oct 14, 2011)

Why do you hate the idea of an all powerful Creator ?
Myself I believe in the God of the Bible. If I did not have faith that God existed I would believe in Aliens from outer space seeded the planet and will be back soon to see how we did.

No way would I believe all this exists because of evolution. The five senses are a miracle, not to mention the rest of bodies. No way we evolved from mud or monkeys, Utter nonsense from the devil to take as many people to hell as he can

And you sir sativa will have a front row seat if you dont accept Jesus or at the very least accept aliens from out space who may not a lot more about God then you do


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> Why do you hate the idea of an all powerful Creator ?
> Myself I believe in the God of the Bible. If I did not have faith that God existed I would believe in Aliens from outer space seeded the planet and will be back soon to see how we did.
> 
> No way would I believe all this exists because of evolution. The five senses are a miracle, not to mention the rest of bodies. No way we evolved from mud or monkeys, Utter nonsense from the devil to take as many people to hell as he can
> ...


Why can't evolution be considered a miracle? I'm not Christian, but I have read the Bible. Evolution makes COMPLETE sense in track with the creation myth. 1st day light (Universe: Stupid to say the universe took 1 day then the Earth collectivity took 5, but it still fits) Then he goes on to create the heavens and the earth ("Gods time" is different than ours, this "day" may have been an entire age in sun terms.) then he makes plants, fish, animals, birds ect. Then finally humans. How does evolution not fit in there as a miracle to describe this phenomenon. To describe how god "did it" without presenting him as a Genie or something.


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## Michael Sparks (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> how is it seriousley possible people believe in gods without evidence , anything else in life requires evidence, to believe its true , yet when it comes to believing in a god , stupid people disregard this vital point , why is this ? its truly shocking


This video should help out, just a wee bit..... best of luck with the continuance of this thread. [video=vimeo;24071143]http://vimeo.com/24071143[/video]

Edit: After reading some of the last back and forth posts, I must says US & The SUN...... pretty good proof goofballs 

cut the bickering and unite already, jeeze we are wasting precious time


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## ghantron (Oct 14, 2011)

ur goin to hell bro


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

but I have read the Bible.>>>

Ok..I vowed to not waste my time with you, but I'm calling BS on (most)people who say that. What exactly does that mean? You've demonstrated ZERO biblical knowledge, yet somehow you're an expert because you "read it". Comprehension obviously wasn't a requirement. I've *been* reading it daily for over 20 years and *I* don't know much. I read a Geometry book in 10th grade. Couldn't tell you anything about it though.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

Oh...and what you describe is theistic evolution...which you don't believe in because there is no God. I don't put much stock in it...because if there's a God, who can do/create anything he wants, why would he start a gazillion-year (have we nailed down the exact # yet?) cruel process of "survival of the fittest" to arrive at:man? 



Finshaggy said:


> Why can't evolution be considered a miracle? I'm not Christian, but I have read the Bible. Evolution makes COMPLETE sense in track with the creation myth. 1st day light (Universe: Stupid to say the universe took 1 day then the Earth collectivity took 5, but it still fits) Then he goes on to create the heavens and the earth ("Gods time" is different than ours, this "day" may have been an entire age in sun terms.) then he makes plants, fish, animals, birds ect. Then finally humans. How does evolution not fit in there as a miracle to describe this phenomenon. To describe how god "did it" without presenting him as a Genie or something.


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## sso (Oct 14, 2011)

wow, what a stir over a fart in a teacup.

great arguments.

worlds exists = god exists .

something must have created the world, so, god. so what created god?

life on earth exists, so aliens mustave seeded it (who seeded the aliens?)

you still at that point lol.

have fun guys im gonna go play a postapocolyptic storyline shootemup


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## boneheadbob (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Why can't evolution be considered a miracle? .


 

You are right it can and it may have in another universe but this uni and this earth were made whole by the God of the Bible in seven days


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

do yall burn herbs strickly to get high or do yall use it to lively up yourselves?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> do yall burn herbs strickly to get high or do yall use it to lively up yourselves?


I smoke to connect with Shiva. And it helps medically, and it keeps me at homeostasis (never had a headache, ever. Thought I did once, but then someone described a headache to me and I was wrong. What I had was not a headache.).


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## boneheadbob (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I smoke to connect with Shiva. And it helps medically, and it keeps me at homeostasis (never had a headache, ever. Thought I did once, but then someone described a headache to me and I was wrong. What I had was not a headache.).


The same thing happened to me when I was a young man but it was about sex with another human being, not headaches


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

yeah man, smoking to strictly get high is cool and whatever but its unfulfeeling. icant even do it nomore. but when you burn and meditate on yourself/nature/God, God most importantly, ifeel so refreshed and relaxed even days after burnin. irecommend it to everyone.


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## cannabineer (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> ... I read a Geometry book in 10th grade. Couldn't tell you anything about it though.


Triangles have three poin'y parts.  cn


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## cannabineer (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> and it keeps me at homeostasis ...


Homeostasis is no good. Homey gotta keep movin.  cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> your ignoring the FACTtheres no evidence for your god


Alright, so now we are going somewhere, finally. So you say it's a fact god doesn't exist. Alright now you just screwed yourself, because now you MUST provide evidence to prove your claim.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Triangles have three poin'y parts.  cn


You're talking about a square.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

Faith is a form of trust in the creator based on evidence he left for us in the bible plus the individual experiences each and every one of us has. Does the big bang continue to produce miracles today? how about the dinosaurs. No I didn't think so. Just keep closing your ears, your eyes, and your heart while ignoring common sense that is right in front of you and you will get all the right answers? yea, good luck with that. If you need someone to teach you the bible and you still don't get it, then just sit quietly in Hell's little handbasket. this thread blows, but I keep coming back like it's an unlimited rock of crack


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)




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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Faith is a form of trust in the creator based on evidence he left for us in the bible plus the individual experiences each and every one of us has. Does the big bang continue to produce miracles today? how about the dinosaurs. No I didn't think so. Just keep closing your ears, your eyes, and your heart while ignoring common sense that is right in front of you and you will get all the right answers? yea, good luck with that. If you need someone to teach you the bible and you still don't get it, then just sit quietly in Hell's little handbasket. this thread blows, but I keep coming back like it's an unlimited rock of crack



Again, if God is 'common sense' right in front of us, then why can't you give any legit answers to those who seek him? Why do you need to rely on tricks and insults? Why does a thread full of people seeking answers 'blow'? Isn't it exciting to see so many trying to find god? Perhaps what blows is that we are not gullible and can easily point out the areas that you are. It seems you have been singing this song and dance all day. You're brain can construct a scenario where everyone else is stupid and does not see God right in front of them, but your brain forgets, you can't point to him either.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

boneheadbob said:


> Why do you hate the idea of an all powerful Creator ?
> Myself I believe in the God of the Bible. If I did not have faith that God existed I would believe in Aliens from outer space seeded the planet and will be back soon to see how we did.
> 
> No way would I believe all this exists because of evolution. The five senses are a miracle, not to mention the rest of bodies. No way we evolved from mud or monkeys, Utter nonsense from the devil to take as many people to hell as he can
> ...


ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, (or maybe aliens) 
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists. (or if not, aliens)


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## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> but I have read the Bible.>>>
> 
> Ok..I vowed to not waste my time with you, but I'm calling BS on (most)people who say that. What exactly does that mean? You've demonstrated ZERO biblical knowledge, yet somehow you're an expert because you "read it". Comprehension obviously wasn't a requirement. I've *been* reading it daily for over 20 years and *I* don't know much. I read a Geometry book in 10th grade. Couldn't tell you anything about it though.


You haven't shown much knowledge about the coloring book my nephew uses, should I hold that against you? The bible has all the earmarks of being written by ignorant men, and nothing, not one shred of knowledge or wisdom that would suggest divinity. You can study the bible your whole life and never learn a thing about gravity, thermodynamics or even basic biology. Maybe 20 years is enough and you should pick up a science book or two.



SoCaldrums said:


> Oh...and what you describe is theistic evolution...which you don't believe in because there is no God. I don't put much stock in it...because if there's a God, who can do/create anything he wants, why would he start a gazillion-year (have we nailed down the exact # yet?) cruel process of "survival of the fittest" to arrive at:man?


So not only do you deny evolution as an explanation for the complexity of life, you deny evolution is even happening? Survival of the fittest plays no role in life? The creator just created us and environmental pressures have nothing to do with anything? Do you ever slow down and think about the things you say? Do you ever try to answer your own questions before you put them out here as arguments? Have you ever been critical of yourself at all in any capacity?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

Heis don't you agree that an atheist has no stance. But when an atheist says that god does not exist, they have just taken a stance? Therefore that person requires evidence to make their claim valid....right? I'm just wondering.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

Why did my sativa thread get deleted? Could it be because it was pretty much a troll thread?


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

[video=youtube;Qlt0hkLNr3w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlt0hkLNr3w[/video]

WATCH this. 


Proves the most intelligent people on the planet reject god. The men & women who CHANGE our world for the better are usually atheists.. The though of God will Hold one back from trying to really figure out the world they live in..
\
KNOWLEDGE PREVAILS.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> [video=youtube;Qlt0hkLNr3w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlt0hkLNr3w[/video]
> 
> WATCH this.
> 
> ...


Maybe, but religious people can be just as productive.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Maybe, but religious people can be just as productive.


...I agree with that. A lot of this stuff seems to get a laugh at someone's expense. It's as though only his brand of living makes sense and is the only non-egocentric bit of the universe.

*Egocentrism* is a personality trait which has the characteristic of regarding oneself and one's own opinions or interests as most important or valid. It also generates the inability to fully understand or to *cope with other people's opinions* and the fact that reality can be different from what they are ready to accept despite any change in their personal belief.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

an earthly man is only concered with things on this earth, the things on this earth is vanity to a Godly man. dont gain the world and lose your soul people. the things on this earth seems like everything to an unbeliever, but we as people are just passing through here. your born with nothing, you leave with nothing, so why put your faith in this world when tomorrow isnt guaranteed?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> an earthly man is only concered with things on this earth, the things on this earth is vanity to a Godly man. dont gain the world and lose your soul people. the things on this earth seems like everything to an unbeliever, but we as people are just passing through here. your born with nothing, you leave with nothing, so why put your faith in this world when tomorrow isnt guaranteed?


I don't believe in "God" as in any book, but I feel I care less about the material world than A LOT of Christians and other people.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I don't believe in "God" as in any book, but I feel I care less about the material world than A LOT of Christians and other people.


Yeah you're also not supposed to judge. Well I guess you can, but it's not a good thing IMO. And you're referring to hypocrites friend.


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## mindphuk (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Heis don't you agree that an atheist has no stance. But when an atheist says that god does not exist, they have just taken a stance? Therefore that person requires evidence to make their claim valid....right? I'm just wondering.


Atheism is the lack of belief in god or gods. Someone that claims that god does not exist is also an atheist, usually referred to as a strong or explicit atheist. They would be required to make their case however since it is the belief in the non-existence of something, the cumulative lack of evidence for god or gods can be used inductively to support their argument without presenting positive evidence. One point you also need to consider is that the strong atheist does not need to make a claim. They can hold a personal belief that there aren't any gods but for sake of argument, merely reject the claim of the theist. 
It is much easier to deny the existence of specific gods with specific traits and characteristics than it is to deny the existence of any type of god imaginable. For example, any god with the characteristic of omnipotence defies logic and can safely be rejected. 

[video=youtube;sNDZb0KtJDk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk[/video]


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I don't believe in "God" as in any book, but I feel I care less about the material world than A LOT of Christians and other people.



...cool, do you wear wool or cotton?


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

CAN BE. BUT THEY ARE NOT. Fact, because once they come upon a question they are baffled by.. They use "God" as an answer & seek it no further. It has happened over & over.. Einstien stopped studying certain unknowns because he believe in a "God" & where EINSTIEN left off and Technically GAVE UP.. another scientist who did not answer the Question with "God" figured it out & furthered Einstiens studies. It happens all the time over & over in history.. Great minds stop when they accept "God" as an answer for the UNKNOWN. GOD being used as a place for what is UNKNOWN WILL ONLY HOLD YOU BACK. QUESTION YOUR WORLD


Hepheastus420 said:


> Maybe, but religious people can be just as productive.


 
So yes RELIGIOUS PEOPLE DO GOOD THINGS.. But out Greatest Accomplishments to explain our way of life till this day.. You can thank people who Questioned God, who did not just accept it so easily. Great minds do not stop @ god.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> CAN BE. BUT THEY ARE NOT. Fact, because once they come upon a question they are baffled by.. They use "God" as an answer & seek it no further. It has happened over & over.. Einstien stopped studying certain unknowns because he believe in a "God" & where EINSTIEN left off and Technically GAVE UP.. another scientist who did not answer the Question with "God" figured it out & furthered Einstiens studies. It happens all the time over & over in history.. Great minds stop when they accept "God" as an answer for the UNKNOWN. GOD being used as a place for what is UNKNOWN WILL ONLY HOLD YOU BACK. QUESTION YOUR WORLD


I do question my world. I have questioned my world so much it led me to religion. And you can't say every religious person can't reach their potential, .


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Yeah you're also not supposed to judge. Well I guess you can, but it's not a good thing IMO. And you're referring to hypocrites friend.


I know. But that defines A LOT of today's Christians.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...cool, do you wear wool or cotton?


Both. Cotton Shirts, Denim pants, and my jacket has wool inside.


----------



## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

Dear mr Heisenberg, I kinda knew where you were going for one moment, but then just a moment later I had realized that in the following illustration, you are the guy on the right, and I am on the left. Look how I a laugh right now! 








Heisenberg said:


> Again, if God is 'common sense' right in front of us, then why can't you give any legit answers to those who seek him? Why do you need to rely on tricks and insults? Why does a thread full of people seeking answers 'blow'? Isn't it exciting to see so many trying to find god? Perhaps what blows is that we are not gullible and can easily point out the areas that you are. It seems you have been singing this song and dance all day. You're brain can construct a scenario where everyone else is stupid and does not see God right in front of them, but your brain forgets, you can't point to him either.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I know. But that defines A LOT of today's Christians.


"being in a church makes one a christian about as much as being in a dealership makes one a car" - unfortunately it's usually about family money.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Atheism is the lack of belief in god or gods. Someone that claims that god does not exist is also an atheist, usually referred to as a strong or explicit atheist. They would be required to make their case however since it is the belief in the non-existence of something, the cumulative lack of evidence for god or gods can be used inductively to support their argument without presenting positive evidence. One point you also need to consider is that the strong atheist does not need to make a claim. They can hold a personal belief that there aren't any gods but for sake of argument, merely reject the claim of the theist.
> It is much easier to deny the existence of specific gods with specific traits and characteristics than it is to deny the existence of any type of god imaginable. For example, any god with the characteristic of omnipotence defies logic and can safely be rejected.
> 
> [video=youtube;sNDZb0KtJDk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk[/video]


So then a religious person does not need any evidence because they can rely on an atheists (who claims god does not exist) lack of evidence. It will go back and forth forever lol.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

They have Numbers..Statistics.. Proving, Showing you.. Our worlds most Brilliant Minds who ACTUALLY CHANGE THINGS.. not just giving a bum a few dollars.. They invent the Future for us.. So yes, Religious people can be smart & good.. but THEY OBVIOUSLY do not take their CURIOSITY a step Further like the rest of humanity who tries to progress..

I am not saying that, I am saying FOR CERTAIN that most Religious people, do not Strive to reach their TRUE POTENTIAL due to a false belief in confort of knowing the alknowing. "God" The Studies Alone, Show that God believing Scientists, could have had MORE POTENTIAL had they not stopped persueing the REAL ANSWERS, rahter than using "God" as one.


Hepheastus420 said:


> I do question my world. I have questioned my world so much it led me to religion. And you can't say every religious person can't reach their potential, .


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> CAN BE. BUT THEY ARE NOT. Fact, because once they come upon a question they are baffled by.. They use "God" as an answer & seek it no further. It has happened over & over.. Einstien stopped studying certain unknowns because he believe in a "God" & where EINSTIEN left off and Technically GAVE UP.. another scientist who did not answer the Question with "God" figured it out & furthered Einstiens studies. It happens all the time over & over in history.. Great minds stop when they accept "God" as an answer for the UNKNOWN. GOD being used as a place for what is UNKNOWN WILL ONLY HOLD YOU BACK. QUESTION YOUR WORLD
> 
> 
> 
> So yes RELIGIOUS PEOPLE DO GOOD THINGS.. But out Greatest Accomplishments to explain our way of life till this day.. You can thank people who Questioned God, who did not just accept it so easily. Great minds do not stop @ god.


people who believe in God knows things on earth is vanity, therefore choose to not go any farther if they want to aint no big deal and the last i checked you was praising some Allah, hypocrite


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Both. Cotton Shirts, Denim pants, and my jacket has wool inside.




*l* ...there's an actual debate somewhere in time about wool and cotton as a symbol of chosen poverty. I believe it still exists today.


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## mindphuk (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> CAN BE. BUT THEY ARE NOT. Fact, because once they come upon a question they are baffled by.. They use "God" as an answer & seek it no further. It has happened over & over.. Einstien stopped studying certain unknowns because he believe in a "God" & where EINSTIEN left off and Technically GAVE UP.. another scientist who did not answer the Question with "God" figured it out & furthered Einstiens studies. It happens all the time over & over in history.. Great minds stop when they accept "God" as an answer for the UNKNOWN. GOD being used as a place for what is UNKNOWN WILL ONLY HOLD YOU BACK. QUESTION YOUR WORLD
> 
> 
> 
> So yes RELIGIOUS PEOPLE DO GOOD THINGS.. But out Greatest Accomplishments to explain our way of life till this day.. You can thank people who Questioned God, who did not just accept it so easily. Great minds do not stop @ god.


 I call shenanigans. 
Einstein didn't stop anything because of his beliefs. Being uncomfortable with the probabilistic nature of the quantum world was certainly unsettling to him but I have seen no evidence that it prevented him from working on the TOE. Another reason is that Einstein's god was Spinoza's god, nature itself. He did not believe in the Jewish god or any type of supernatural entity.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> *l* ...there's an actual debate somewhere in time about wool and cotton as a symbol of chosen poverty. I believe it still exists today.


Well these are what I wear everyday. Tshirts, Jeans, a hat (probably cotton too) and this jacket.

And I don't mind being poor. I don't believe the world is about money. I know I _need_ money to fulfill everything I want to.
But even _when_ I get money, it will be being used to rid the need of money in large groups of people.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> So yes, Religious people can be smart & good.. but THEY OBVIOUSLY do not take their CURIOSITY a step Further like the rest of humanity who tries to progress..


That's the only part of your statement that slightly bothers me. Some religious people are "smart & good" and they do "take their curiosity a step further", you are referring to the close minded religious people. Please raw, show me the numbers and statistics. I'm not saying your statistics will be wrong, I just wanna see them, .


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

??? CHOOSE NOT TO GO FURTHER? So if ALL MAN was like you we would still be in the Stone Ages? What I said is the fact you live in the world you live in today is THANKS to People who did not dumb themselves down with God. THey questioned the World they live in.. YOU DIESEL ON THE OTHER HAND.. THINK IT IS AGAINST GODS LAW.. TO QUESTION THE WORLD.. you are not the future my friend, you will not create anything new or beneficial to mankind. You simply Copy & Paste what has been branded into your mind from a young age.. It is already to late for you to become someone great in regards to Real life studies..


diesel15 said:


> people who believe in God knows things on earth is vanity, therefore choose to not go any farther if they want to aint no big deal and the last i checked you was praising some Allah, hypocrite


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Well these are what I wear everyday. Tshirts, Jeans, a hat (probably cotton too) and this jacket.
> 
> And I don't mind being poor. I don't believe the world is about money. I know I _need_ money to fulfill everything I want to.
> But even _when_ I get money, it will be being used to rid the need of money in large groups of people.



...that's pretty cool. There's been a few times I've turned down jobs that seemed 'worth it' in terms of cake, but not for the loss of sleep / family / friends / life...


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## mindphuk (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So then a religious person does not need any evidence because they can rely on an atheists (who claims god does not exist) lack of evidence. It will go back and forth forever lol.


 If a theist wants to convince someone that there is a god, then yes, they must produce evidence. How can you rely on the lack of evidence for a god to support that there is a god? You make no sense.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

??? The studies on How much of the Scientific Community is Religious? the studies & comparisons of Histories Great Minds WHO Stopped Their Great Studies due to using "god" as an answer? If you have not seen them you have not seeked higher learning to your best ability. You have the www. @ your power & you refuse or do not know how to research things for your own. Why does that statement bother you.. it is a FACT that the worlds Greatest minds Do not believe in a God..Which is WHY they are the worlds greatest minds.. You cannot FIND MANY TOP LEADING SCIENTISTS who have religion or a god. Why is that? 


Hepheastus420 said:


> That's the only part of your statement that slightly bothers me. Some religious people are "smart & good" and they do "take their curiosity a step further", you are referring to the close minded religious people. Please raw, show me the numbers and statistics. I'm not saying your statistics will be wrong, I just wanna see them, .


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> ??? The studies on How much of the Scientific Community is Religious? the studies & comparisons of Histories Great Minds WHO Stopped Their Great Studies due to using "god" as an answer? If you have not seen them you have not seeked higher learning to your best ability. You have the www. @ your power & you refuse or do not know how to research things for your own. Why does that statement bother you.. it is a FACT that the worlds Greatest minds Do not believe in a God..Which is WHY they are the worlds greatest minds.. You cannot FIND MANY TOP LEADING SCIENTISTS who have religion or a god. Why is that?




...yeah, these guys did nothing for us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_scientists f.e.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> If a theist wants to convince someone that there is a god, then yes, they must produce evidence. How can you rely on the lack of evidence for a god to support that there is a god? You make no sense.


 I know it doesn't make sense..... neither does atheists, who claim god isn't real, using lack of evidence as evidence.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> ??? The studies on How much of the Scientific Community is Religious? the studies & comparisons of Histories Great Minds WHO Stopped Their Great Studies due to using "god" as an answer? If you have not seen them you have not seeked higher learning to your best ability. You have the www. @ your power & you refuse or do not know how to research things for your own. Why does that statement bother you.. it is a FACT that the worlds Greatest minds Do not believe in a God..Which is WHY they are the worlds greatest minds.. You cannot FIND MANY TOP LEADING SCIENTISTS who have religion or a god. Why is that?


I have a problem with that because you're saying my religion holds me back. I personally know it doesn't hold me back.


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## mindphuk (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I know it doesn't make sense..... neither does atheists, who claim god isn't real, using lack of evidence as evidence.


 Then you have a problem with inductive reasoning, not atheism.


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## cannabineer (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I know it doesn't make sense..... neither does atheists, who claim god isn't real, using lack of evidence as evidence.


There is a difference between showing that my stance is tenable ... and showing that yours is not. (my and yours are interchangeable)

Since both the theistic stance (absent such sillinesses as doctrinally-mandated rejections of basic science) and the atheistic stance (absent such sillinesses as inappropriate positivism) are tenable, trying to prove one by debunking the other will be fruitless. The wheel is spinning but the hamster is a figment ... cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Then you have a problem with inductive reasoning, not atheism.


I never said I had a problem with atheists. I said I have a problem with people that claim something is fact without any evidence.
And yeah I have a problem with inductive reasoning.... kinda.

I just asked heis that question because sativa said it's a FACT god doesn't exist, therefore doesn't he need evidence?


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

LMAO.. You cannot deny that. If you did not have faith in an Afterlife...being with god when you die.. that an invisible Entitiy is watching over your EVERY DAY TO DAY move... THAT HAD HELD YOU BACK FROM WHO YOU WOULD BE HAD YOU NOT HAD THAT ILLUSION..


WHY DON'T ALL THE CRAZY GOD BELIEVERS BECOME & STRIVE TO BE GREAT SCIENTISTS TO PROVE HIM TRUE? Is it too much Confidence in their God? Like, Why do I need to further mankinds technological advances when I have a god I will spend eterity w/.

think about where or who you would be...what you would strive to learn, had you not left all the UNKNOWN QUESTIONS TO.. "GOD"..Honestly IMO it is a COP OUT to learning.. Lazy fucks who don't wanna spend time learning about technical shyt instead would rather answer all the Tough questions with "God".. God created that, I don't need to understand it.. We would have no idea what Germs, Bacteria, Cells, Atoms are today had we simply said "God" was doing it all along.. You know bad weather? natural disasters? Back then we would BLAME GOD, Say it is an ACT OF GOD.. NOW DAYS, we KNOW How, Why, most likely when.. it will happen DUE TO UNDERSTANDING Weather & the world we live in.


Hepheastus420 said:


> I have a problem with that because you're saying my religion holds me back. I personally know it doesn't hold me back.


You give religious people to much credit.. they may have wrote alot of books & started many wars.. but they have not bettered mankinds way of life as scientists & people who really questioned life have.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> LMAO.. You cannot deny that. If you did not have faith in an Afterlife...being with god when you die.. that an invisible Entitiy is watching over your EVERY DAY TO DAY move... THAT HAD HELD YOU BACK FROM WHO YOU WOULD BE HAD YOU NOT HAD THAT ILLUSION..
> 
> 
> WHY DON'T ALL THE CRAZY GOD BELIEVERS BECOME & STRIVE TO BE GREAT SCIENTISTS TO PROVE HIM TRUE? Is it too much Confidence in their God? Like, Why do I need to further mankinds technological advances when I have a god I will spend eterity w/.
> ...


I never say "god did it" to answer my questions nor do I think I will be with god in the afterlife (if there's an afterlife).


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...that's pretty cool. There's been a few times I've turned down jobs that seemed 'worth it' in terms of cake, but not for the loss of sleep / family / friends / life...


I don't want "jobs". I got better ideas.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> LMAO.. You cannot deny that. If you did not have faith in an Afterlife...being with god when you die.. that an invisible Entitiy is watching over your EVERY DAY TO DAY move... THAT HAD HELD YOU BACK FROM WHO YOU WOULD BE HAD YOU NOT HAD THAT ILLUSION..
> 
> 
> WHY DON'T ALL THE CRAZY GOD BELIEVERS BECOME & STRIVE TO BE GREAT SCIENTISTS TO PROVE HIM TRUE? Is it too much Confidence in their God? Like, Why do I need to further mankinds technological advances when I have a god I will spend eterity w/.
> ...




...you're starting to sound religious.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

The Brain is not an Accurate Data Thinking Device..  has many flaws.

So you cannot completely blame yourself for being Dumb, when you are not intelligent to begin with. Think about it.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I don't want "jobs". I got better ideas.


...cool, don't get pinched! jk man


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## mindphuk (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I never said I had a problem with atheists. I said I have a problem with people that claim something is fact without any evidence.
> And yeah I have a problem with inductive reasoning.... kinda.
> 
> I just asked heis that question because sativa said it's a FACT god doesn't exist, therefore doesn't he need evidence?


Where did he say that? He is certainly welcome to believe it is a fact that a god doesn't exist. If he expects others to believe as he does, then yes, he needs to provide a reasonable argument. He doesn't need evidence per se because it is the non-existence of a thing. A good logical argument may be sufficient. Evidence is necessary to demonstrate a positive claim, not a negative one because things that don't exist do not leave evidence.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> your ignoring the FACTtheres no evidence for your god


Here you go mindphuk, appreciate it lol. It took me forever to find it.


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## mindphuk (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Here you go mindphuk, appreciate it lol. It took me forever to find it.


That is not claiming it is a fact god doesn't exist. The fact he is referring to is the lack of evidence. You created a straw man out of this comment.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Here you go mindphuk, appreciate it lol. It took me forever to find it.


Oh shit nevermind wrong post, damn it. It's somewhere but I don't feel like finding it now. Your welcome to go on a hunt for it, or you can take my word, your choice.


Without evidence it cannot be a fact.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 14, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> That is not claiming it is a fact god doesn't exist. The fact he is referring to is the lack of evidence. You created a straw man out of this comment.


Yeah my bad, wrong post.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> ??? CHOOSE NOT TO GO FURTHER? So if ALL MAN was like you we would still be in the Stone Ages? What I said is the fact you live in the world you live in today is THANKS to People who did not dumb themselves down with God. THey questioned the World they live in.. YOU DIESEL ON THE OTHER HAND.. THINK IT IS AGAINST GODS LAW.. TO QUESTION THE WORLD.. you are not the future my friend, you will not create anything new or beneficial to mankind. You simply Copy & Paste what has been branded into your mind from a young age.. It is already to late for you to become someone great in regards to Real life studies..


1st off you spoon feeding me with words inever said. 2nd you almost had me fooled, talkin bout some, you was raised a Christian, you believe in God. but for like 4posts[maximum] you praising allah. later that day/next day you said- ''f*** Jesus'' now you saying you want ALL believers to convert to UNbelievers and for these things icall you a hypocrite.


----------



## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

I think "god" is a perfect malfuction for mankinds brain to adhere to.. Mankinds uncertainty, being nieve & hopeful.. Then BAM..someone creates the IDEA of "god" something greater than themselves to which they can relax since all the pressure of Life is no longer completely up to them or on their shoulders.. they have "God" to blame & use as an answer to lifes issues.

In all honesty.. Sounds like something ingenious, Sounds like someone or something with Real Intelligence Tricked Early Man into being submissive & obedient to a higher deity.


----------



## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

When I mention Allah, or Bhuddah, or Jesus.. I am being sarcastic & showing that if ANYTHING.. people are TALKING ABOUT THE SAME GOD, rather than being idiotic & believing their god is the Real one.. As you say.. The GOD OF THE BIBLE.. that is BS TO ME. God did not publish shit nor is English his 1st language. lol


diesel15 said:


> 1st off you spoon feeding me with words inever said. 2nd you almost had me fooled, talkin bout some, you was raised a Christian, you believe in God. but for like 4posts[maximum] you praising allah. later that day/next day you said- ''f*** Jesus'' now you saying you want ALL believers to convert to UNbelievers and for these things icall you a hypocrite.


I did not say the latter part of your post.. I simply said THE PEOPLE WE HAVE TO THANK FOR OUR WAY OF LIFE & ADVANCES.. is to Non-believers.. I said that it is FACT. 93% of ELITE SCIENTIST ON THE PLANET REJECT GOD AS OF THIS DAY>> THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WILL PAVE THE WAY OF OUR FUTURE & YOUR KIDS FUTURE..

You believing in God won't save lives, it wont further the human race, it would not have gotten us to where we are.. That is proven. & I wish to share it with thoes who do not understand that.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I think "god" is a perfect malfuction for mankinds brain to adhere to.. Mankinds uncertainty, being nieve & hopeful.. Then BAM..someone creates the IDEA of "god" something greater than themselves to which they can relax since all the pressure of Life is no longer completely up to them or on their shoulders.. they have "God" to blame & use as an answer to lifes issues.
> 
> In all honesty.. Sounds like something ingenious, Sounds like someone or something with Real Intelligence Tricked Early Man into being submissive & obedient to a higher deity.


do you know how crazy this sounds??


----------



## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> When I mention Allah, or Bhuddah, or Jesus.. I am being sarcastic & showing that if ANYTHING.. people are TALKING ABOUT THE SAME GOD, rather than being idiotic & believing their god is the Real one.. As you say.. The GOD OF THE BIBLE.. that is BS TO ME. God did not publish shit nor is English his 1st language. lol


naw sir dont back now you had perfect opportunitys to say this in the thread im talkin bout but you didnt. you was being straight up, remember iasked you, who was your god? you sat there and gave me an answer, and you clearly said that you believed in a god in your response


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

You're an idiot & having been abducted by the Illuminati/FBI. I have nothing further to say to you.

Fuck ALLAH & your Bible. Still think I fallow him? 

FYI all 288 and soon to be 289 of your posts are Bat-Shit-Crazy Talk. Good thing I can view every post you have made to Validate that.


diesel15 said:


> naw sir dont back now you had perfect opportunitys to say this in the thread im talkin bout but you didnt. you was being straight up, remember iasked you, who was your god? you sat there and gave me an answer, and you clearly said that you believed in a god in your response


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> You're an idiot & having been abducted by the Illuminati/FBI. I have nothing further to say to you.
> 
> Fuck ALLAH & your Bible. Still think I fallow him?
> 
> FYI all 288 and soon to be 289 of your posts are Bat-Shit-Crazy Talk. Good thing I can view every post you have made to Validate that.


your a satanist get over yourself. ima keep it cool though cause in the end your going to burn with satan(your god if you didnt know). you gettin mad cause im telling the truth and you cant stop me. the truth hurt dont it? lol


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> the fbi snatched me up 1day and showed me the ''plan'' of the illuminati, and let me say, the devil himself wrote it, no doubts about it. if you ever saw it YOU WILL BE CREEPED OUT TO THE POINT OF NIGHTMARES EVERY NIGHT FOR A WEEK!



*BUMP FOR INSANITY.*

*I am a satanist? I think believing in a Devil or Satan is more Obsurde than Believing in a God. <3 fyi.*


----------



## mindphuk (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> your a satanist get over yourself. ima keep it cool though cause in the end your going to burn with satan(your god if you didnt know). you gettin mad cause im telling the truth and you cant stop me. the truth hurt dont it? lol


If satan punishes bad people, doesn't that make him a good guy?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

"GOD" is just an ancient word for "I don't know how it works". Or "We can only understand it if we pretend it has emotions like us."

This is such a long fight over an outdated word. Now people call it "A black hole" if we can't understand it. Like the 4th demension is a black hole...wtf?


----------



## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> If satan punishes bad people, doesn't that make him a good guy?


Satan is an angel. Not human. Therefore he has no will, he can do only the will of god.


----------



## Heisenberg (Oct 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Heis don't you agree that an atheist has no stance. But when an atheist says that god does not exist, they have just taken a stance? Therefore that person requires evidence to make their claim valid....right? I'm just wondering.


Correct, believing there is no god is beyond atheism and requires a leap of faith.



ChronicObsession said:


> Dear mr Heisenberg, I kinda knew where you were going for one moment, but then just a moment later I had realized that in the following illustration, you are the guy on the right, and I am on the left. Look how I a laugh right now!


I didn't study it too much. Did the guy on left use deflection and ad hominem attacks due to the lack of any valid counter?


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> *BUMP FOR INSANITY.*
> 
> *I am a satanist? I think believing in a Devil or Satan is more Obsurde than Believing in a God. <3 fyi.*


lol, this dude ^^ mad cause im tellin the truth and he cant handle it. fyi high school was over for awhile but iguess you aint get the memo. lol


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> "GOD" is just an ancient word for "I don't know how it works". Or "We can only understand it if we pretend it has emotions like us."
> 
> This is such a long fight over an outdated word. Now people call it "A black hole" if we can't understand it. Like the 4th demension is a black hole...wtf?



...in kairos man!


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...in kairos man!


What does that mean?


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> What does that mean?


...in the opportune moment. It's the '2nd meaning of time' to the greeks.


----------



## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...in the opportune moment. It's the '2nd meaning of time' to the greeks.



Last night's not today
and right now's not tomorrow
livin in the moment
then your times already borrowed

At first you don't succeed,
Then try it all agin.
I'ma die fore I quit,
so indeed I'ma win.


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## mindphuk (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Satan is an angel. Not human. Therefore he has no will, he can do only the will of god.


Technically, it is a title, the adversary, and not the name of any specific entity. Not necessarily an angel but a member of the divine council. It is the job of the adversary to tempt the pious but he works for God not against him. Christianity turns that on its head.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

What truth ^_^ I have seen you since POST # 1. You cannot trick the RIU community into thinking I am the wrong one here my friend. you have over 288 posts of nonsense, I have over 2,088 posts of knowldge you can look up & gain facts about. You Copy & Paste bible versus. You do not have one Original thought in your head that has to do w/ truth. I do not attempt @ debating w/ people like you, especially you.. becuase not once have I read a post by you that has any knowledgable basis.

Heisen seems like a Gift from God, (pun intended) .. with how he takes the time to try & educate you guys on the Reality of the world we live in.. While you rely on faith.. he relies on Facts & understanding.. Expland your mind if you would like to be taken seriously. 

If people on the web consider you a joke,  I mean.. cmon. where else do you have a better outlet to shine & show your true intellect. Yet you destroy your rep by chanting crazy talk. You must be even worse in real life when it comes to not understanding the world we live in.


diesel15 said:


> lol, this dude ^^ mad cause im tellin the truth and he cant handle it. fyi high school was over for awhile but iguess you aint get the memo. lol


----------



## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Technically, it is a title, the adversary, and not the name of any specific entity. Not necessarily an angel but a member of the divine council. It is the job of the adversary to tempt the pious but he works for God not against him. Christianity turns that on its head.


Yeah, but look at Islam.

Satan is a Djinn. All Angels and Demons are Djinn.

Satan is an ArchAngel. One of the Elite of gods Willess crew.

Satan can perform only the will of god, that is why he hates Adam. Because he has will, and therefore rule over the Djinn. God tells them to bow, and Satan refuses. In a way, it was gods will for Satan to revolt. "God" (a character in a book) sets up EVERYTHING. He knew what would happen, and knew what his willess soldier would do.

[video=youtube;fBGGAjMg9vw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGGAjMg9vw[/video]


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

Read "Letters from the Earth" there's a free online version.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

Only issue I have with believing in stuff like that Fin.. past the point of it only being a man made story.

Is that it seems Obsurde & Pointless. If god knew everything...before hand.. Created everything.. knowing its destination.. MAKES NO SENSE WHY WE LIVE IN THE WORLD WE DO.

Does god have a sense of humor making Life a Game?

Why not just make us all Perfect to begin with.? would that not leave him w/ alot more free time creating positive things in the universe? instead of gambling w/ humans as pets.

I see nothing wrong with the bible or god.. but when it causes someone to live a certain way & reject true knowledge & a intrest in science... I think god is working against his own plan.

If he were so smart, why did he make so many mistakes in ragards to us?


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## mindphuk (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Yeah, but look at Islam.
> 
> Satan is a Djinn. All Angels and Demons are Djinn.
> 
> ...


Who cares what Islam says? Hasatan is Hebrew, it is a title that has a definite article it is not the name of an individual angel or demon. Christianity distorted the idea of hasatan long before Islam was even in the picture. There is nothing in the Hebrew literature that supports the idea of an angel that hated Adam. Christianity and Islam took fictitious stories from bronze-age goat herders and made them even more unrecognizable yet that is what the majority of the people now believe. If they only knew the origins of their fables, they would have a much easier time dismissing them.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

Even better. HUMANS CREATED COMPUTERS.. a Much more efficient way of calculating info, mathmatical problems in the world we live in.. If we MUST CREATE something to FURTHER OUR OWN WAY OF LIFE.. why did God not give us a Better CPU upstairs? (brain)

Did he purposefully Halfass on humans to intentionally make/hope they would improve? & if he knew the outcome anyway what good would it be to do in the 1st place.. It all makes no sense when ppl use "God" as an excuse. Cause @ the end of the Day.. the God they say is perfect, all knowing... controdicts the very teachings his fallowers use to better their understanding of him.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

DING DING DING... Most people including Diesel do not even fully understand the History of their beliefs & religions. If they did, it would not seem like such a Godly Mystery. Lack of knowledge is their enemy.


mindphuk said:


> Who cares what Islam says? Hasatan is Hebrew, it is a title that has a definite article it is not the name of an individual angel or demon. Christianity distorted the idea of hasatan long before Islam was even in the picture. There is nothing in the Hebrew literature that supports the idea of an angel that hated Adam. Christianity and Islam took fictitious stories from bronze-age goat herders and made them even more unrecognizable yet that is what the majority of the people now believe. If they only knew the origins of their fables, they would have a much easier time dismissing them.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

...isn't satan set? ...or, saturn?


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## sso (Oct 14, 2011)

actually satan in islam was the only angel with free will. (or one of the few, cant remember)

and thats why he rebelled

"i am made of fire and man of simple clay, Why should I bow to he!?"

or something like that.

though in another version of the story, satan refused, because, he had made a wow,or something like that, never to love anyone as much as god.

and was told to love man the same as god (you serve those you love as they serve you (i scratch your back because i love to see you happy and know you like that and you do the same for me)

well, it was either a wow, or simply that he couldnt love man the same as god.

mjeh, stories.


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## sso (Oct 14, 2011)

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Set_(mythology)?qsrc=3044


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

I just find it funny how the Koran & the Bible are the same shit re-written by people w/ different views & agendas.. & most Christians do not understand that.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

rawbudz your so full of crap to the point where you fooled yourself. knowledge? you? you say the dumbest crap as a post, over 6000 post of crap wwwaayyy more crap than me. you think post count mean somethin to me? you out your mind man. your gullible id work you in a minute ''if'' iwas still that unbeliever of a man iused to be. inever had a issue withchu(and thats no lie)but you(being nieve) think these cats on here your friends or somethin, listen to every word they say and take it to heart. this aint hs nomore. stop being a nieve follower and lead your own life. these cats aint your friends foreal. this the internet pal, not real life, so stop acting like it is. idont and never had a issue withchu but you stepped up to me so iheld the mirror up to you.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Only issue I have with believing in stuff like that Fin.. past the point of it only being a man made story.
> 
> Is that it seems Obsurde & Pointless. If god knew everything...before hand.. Created everything.. knowing its destination.. MAKES NO SENSE WHY WE LIVE IN THE WORLD WE DO.
> 
> ...


What is the Bible but a man made story???

Then Christianity makes no sense, and I'm not Christian. So that's ok with me.

Life is not a game, lol. I've thought about that a lot. That's the human's problem. They think life is a game, it's not. There ARE NO RULES. This is real fuckin life. This is where ANYTHING can happen. This is what is real. Get out of your "game".

We are perfect. But we strive to be different than what we are. Houses and cars are not real, but we have built our lives around these non existent things. They ARE "tangible", but they are not "real.

I do not follow a book.

He did not make mistakes in regard to us, according to the bible. The mistakes are due to our free will. I am not Christian, but I still believe humans are perfect for what they adapted for. Not for what they are trying to do though.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

sso said:


> http://www.ask.com/wiki/Set_(mythology)?qsrc=3044


...yeah, lots of S's got that wrap. Saturn feels real.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

sso said:


> actually satan in islam was the only angel with free will. (or one of the few, cant remember)
> 
> and thats why he rebelled
> 
> ...


That's not true. He has no will. I wass Muslim for a period of my life. And I'm talking Christianity AND Islam.

The clay and fire part is true. But there are other things made of light...angels? Because Djinn are Angels and Demons. 


He just didn't want to bow. It was as simple as that. "I'm better than Adam".
In the back of Gods head he feels "I am better than Adam." And Satan's act was just a manifestation of this.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

The last part is good.. Humans are perfect for what they are adapted for.. not what they try/intend to be.. Beautiful. 

then again I doubt we are even perfet for what we have adapted for. ^_^ we have flaws regardless. Evolution & survivlal of the fittest is a bitch.


Finshaggy said:


> What is the Bible but a man made story???
> 
> Then Christianity makes no sense, and I'm not Christian. So that's ok with me.
> 
> ...


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

This is what democracy looks like

http://www.livestream.com/owsoccupyseattle


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> This is what democracy looks like
> 
> http://www.livestream.com/owsoccupyseattle




...they're talking about 'occupying bay street' in canada. Just fkn great, what the hell am i supposed to do with my share of beaver pelts?! Wait!...beeeeeeaverrrrr. Ahhh, that feels good to say.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> If you read the Bible you find a lot of crazy shit.
> Bitches gettin their Dad drunk to fuck him.
> 2 month Ceremonies for Dad's death, but burry mom in the yard.
> There's more.


i have read a decent amount of it and yes there is alot of crazy shit in it, but they also have alot of very good and very true morals of life that are good to live by...which is why i said what i said


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## Finshaggy (Oct 14, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i have read a decent amount of it and yes there is alot of crazy shit in it, but they also have alot of very good and very true morals of life that are good to live by...which is why i said what i said


So does Futurama, and The Smurfs.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 14, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> So does Futurama, and The Smurfs.


are we talkin about futurama and the smurfs?

and because they do means the bible doesnt? i said what i said once again because sativa said the bible is all lies...which isnt the case


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> are we talkin about futurama and the smurfs?
> 
> and because they do means the bible doesnt? i said what i said once again because sativa said the bible is all lies...which isnt the case


Oh. Ok. That's different. It's not "all lies"

It may all be factual historically, or it may be myths. We can't ever know. Like, didn't they not ever find evidence of Jews in Egypt? On the walls or anything?


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 15, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Oh. Ok. That's different. It's not "all lies"
> 
> It may all be factual historically, or it may be myths. We can't ever know. Like, didn't they not ever find evidence of Jews in Egypt? On the walls or anything?


i dunno, but the bible is a literature book not a historical book


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i dunno, but the bible is a literature book not a historical book


I think Genesis is just teaching you about raising children. And how one day they will do exactly the thing you didn't want them to.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 15, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I think Genesis is just teaching you about raising children. And how one day they will do exactly the thing you didn't want them to.


i dont need the bible to tell me that haha my kids are gonna askin jesus for help when he gets the shit smacked outa him for not listenin to me


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i dont need the bible to tell me that haha my kids are gonna askin jesus for help when he gets the shit smacked outa him for not listenin to me


Lol. But they needed to know that in the desert.


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## Harrekin (Oct 15, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i dont need the bible to tell me that haha my kids are gonna askin jesus for help when he gets the shit smacked outa him for not listenin to me


Is it not Jesus' will to forgive your children/anyone when they do wrong?

But God didn't forgive Adam and Eve...contradiction?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Is it not Jesus' will to forgive your children/anyone when they do wrong?
> 
> But God didn't forgive Adam and Eve...contradiction?


God was mean then.
Jesus was the changing point. Having a kid changed gods perspective on shit man.


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## Harrekin (Oct 15, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> God was mean then.
> Jesus was the changing point. Having a kid changed gods perspective on shit man.


Can an all powerful,wise and all knowing God change their position? Wouldn't that contradict the all knowing,wise and powerful part? And Jesus wasn't technically born,he was born on Earth but was supposedly always part of the Trinity. 

More holes than Swiss cheese...


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 15, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Is it not Jesus' will to forgive your children/anyone when they do wrong?
> 
> But God didn't forgive Adam and Eve...contradiction?


they're not gonna be prayin about what they did wrong they gonna pray they dont get smacked upside the back of their head again.


that is pretty bogus and adam didnt even do nothin, but be with the bitch when she was gettin punished. if there is a god and he is all powerful shouldnt he be able to change his position if he feels like. i mean we can do it so if we can its not hard to imagine. just cause he's all powerful and all knowin doesnt mean he cant be an asshole haha


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Can an all powerful,wise and all knowing God change their position? Wouldn't that contradict the all knowing,wise and powerful part? And Jesus wasn't technically born,he was born on Earth but was supposedly always part of the Trinity.
> 
> More holes than Swiss cheese...


Well there WAS NO TRINITY until Jesus came. So yes, this all powerful god would have to change when the son came anyways. And Jesus did calm him down quiet a bit.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

I read the Bible and he's a DICK when it's him dealing with us (Like if corporate had to come micromanage type attitude). But Jesus wasn't such a dick, so he just used the "same power" in a nicer way, and no one really saw much of god himself at that point.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> they're not gonna be prayin about what they did wrong they gonna pray they dont get smacked upside the back of their head again.
> 
> 
> that is pretty bogus and adam didnt even do nothin, but be with the bitch when she was gettin punished. if there is a god and he is all powerful shouldnt he be able to change his position if he feels like. i mean we can do it so if we can its not hard to imagine. just cause he's all powerful and all knowin doesnt mean he cant be an asshole haha


God causes Cain to kill Able. Read your Bible. Cain comes to god and says, "Why do you not respect me, I offer you adequate gifts?" And God says. "ME??!?!?! Go talk to your brother!!"

So he goes and kills his brother because his brother takes care of the herds and offers god baby animals. Cain can only offer grains and fruits, but it's all he's got.

THEN Cain goes and finds a wife. 
Just ADAM, EVE, CAIN, and ABLE. And he goes EAST to the land of NOD, and finds himself a bitch...?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What the FUCK????!?!?


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## Harrekin (Oct 15, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Well there WAS NO TRINITY until Jesus came. So yes, this all powerful god would have to change when the son came anyways. And Jesus did calm him down quiet a bit.


Dude Jesus was always there, he just came to Earth at one stage, he even said he was "returning to the Father". 

And Blazinkill, Adam ate the apple too, you can't play the "but she told me to" card.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Dude Jesus was always there, he just came to Earth at one stage, he even said he was "returning to the Father".
> 
> And Blazinkill, Adam ate the apple too, you can't play the "but she told me to" card.


Jesus said a lot of things. That doesn't mean Moses, or Jacob, or anyone did.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

DANG it! No wonder I flunked.



cannabineer said:


> Triangles have three poin'y parts.  cn


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

I must've missed where anyone here was "seeking answers". Seriously. Not trying to be a dick, but if a sincere person here wants a sincere answer about something in the Bible, I'll do my best to answer it, but all I've seen so far is: "PROVE GOD EXISTS!!".



Heisenberg said:


> Again, if God is 'common sense' right in front of us, then why can't you give any legit answers to those who seek him? Why do you need to rely on tricks and insults? Why does a thread full of people seeking answers 'blow'? Isn't it exciting to see so many trying to find god? Perhaps what blows is that we are not gullible and can easily point out the areas that you are. It seems you have been singing this song and dance all day. You're brain can construct a scenario where everyone else is stupid and does not see God right in front of them, but your brain forgets, you can't point to him either.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> You haven't shown much knowledge about the coloring book my nephew uses, should I hold that against you? The bible has all the earmarks of being written by ignorant men, and nothing, not one shred of knowledge or wisdom that would suggest divinity. You can study the bible your whole life and never learn a thing about gravity, thermodynamics or even basic biology. Maybe 20 years is enough and you should pick up a science book or two.>>>
> 
> Wasn't talking to you. Was talking to the guy who claims "the bible is fucked", but has no idea what it says.
> 
> ...


>>>

So, I'll check you off the "seeking answers" list and just put you on the dick list. Did I say I deny micro-evolution? I don't know *anybody* who does.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

Man...our founding fathers were sure stupid huh?



RawBudzski said:


> [video=youtube;Qlt0hkLNr3w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlt0hkLNr3w[/video]
> 
> WATCH this.
> 
> ...


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

But no atheists.



Finshaggy said:


> I know. But that defines A LOT of today's Christians.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

I have a general rule about never responding to someone who feels the need TO USE SO MANY CAPS...but I'll break it (and, no doubt, regret it), once.



RawBudzski said:


> LMAO.. You cannot deny that. If you did not have faith in an Afterlife...being with god when you die.. that an invisible Entitiy is watching over your EVERY DAY TO DAY move... THAT HAD HELD YOU BACK FROM WHO YOU WOULD BE HAD YOU NOT HAD THAT ILLUSION..>>>
> 
> That makes no sense to me. So...someone who believes in a creator...who created them FOR A PURPOSE, and who cares about them, will be "less productive" than someone with no such hope? Obvious nonsense.
> 
> ...


>>>

Ok...now you're embarrassing yourself. Were Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler and Mao "religious people"? And again, theres a ton of believing scientists.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

Crap...I don't know how to multi-quote^


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## Heisenberg (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I must've missed where anyone here was "seeking answers". Seriously. Not trying to be a dick, but if a sincere person here wants a sincere answer about something in the Bible, I'll do my best to answer it, but all I've seen so far is: "PROVE GOD EXISTS!!".


Most of us who are seeking answers realized that the bible has very few in the context of a deity. Even religious apologists admit that the bible was written by man. That fact is not in dispute, but it raises the question, what then are it's qualifications for being a divine work? The bible sucks at history, logic, and consistency and teaches us nothing about the mechanics of reality. The bible has nothing that sets it aside from any work of fiction, especially other religious texts which all say essentially the same thing. What is it I can find in the bible that is not in the Qur'an? The bible purports to be absolutely certain about the not only the existence of God, but the contents of his mind and will. For this, it gives not one shred of justification. Does that mean the bible is useless? Not at all, it just means when we go looking for evidence of divinity and apply objective standards of evaluation, we find nothing. So those of us who are seriously looking for answers about the idea of a deity find no worth in the bible.



SoCaldrums said:


> Man...our founding fathers were sure stupid huh?


What is your point? Many of them were deists. Theism certainly does not get credit for our country's origin, unless you count the desire to gain distance from persecution.


----------



## Heisenberg (Oct 15, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Well there WAS NO TRINITY until Jesus came. So yes, this all powerful god would have to change when the son came anyways. And Jesus did calm him down quiet a bit.
> 
> I read the Bible and he's a DICK when it's him dealing with us (Like if corporate had to come micromanage type attitude). But Jesus wasn't such a dick, so he just used the "same power" in a nicer way, and no one really saw much of god himself at that point.


The bible describes God not just as all powerful, but all knowing as well. That means he has full knowledge of the past, present and future. So when he was being a dick he would have already known about his son and the alternative way of dealing with his creations, but chose to be a dick anyway. Unless one believes a perfect being who knows everything needs to engage in trial and error type learning.


----------



## Harrekin (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I have a general rule about never responding to someone who feels the need TO USE SO MANY CAPS...but I'll break it (and, no doubt, regret it), once.
> 
> >>>
> 
> Ok...now you're embarrassing yourself. Were Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler and Mao "religious people"? And again, theres a ton of believing scientists.


Dude Hitler was a Christian...


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I read the Bible and he's a DICK when it's him dealing with us (Like if corporate had to come micromanage type attitude). But Jesus wasn't such a dick, so he just used the "same power" in a nicer way, and no one really saw much of god himself at that point.


The thing with that is in the bible when people would refer to god and what god said they would be like "in a dream I had god told me to go to this village and kill them....". But when people talk about Jesus they say exactly what he said, and many people heard what he said, not just one guy that was dreaming.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Dude Hitler was a Christian...


Dude he claimed he was Christian, a Christian wouldn't do what he did. He was more of an atheist than a Christian, I'm sure you can find somewhere that he renounced his faith. Also I'm not saying he did those things because he was an atheist, he did this things because he's a dick.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> The bible describes God not just as all powerful, but all knowing as well. That means he has full knowledge of the past, present and future. So when he was being a dick he would have already known about his son and the alternative way of dealing with his creations, but chose to be a dick anyway. Unless one believes a perfect being who knows everything needs to engage in trial and error type learning.


If his knowledge is infinite doesn't that mean he can change his mind?


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

LOL. Uh...no.



Harrekin said:


> Dude Hitler was a Christian...


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## Harrekin (Oct 15, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> If his knowledge is infinite doesn't that mean he can change his mind?


Nah I'd imagine it'd mean he wouldn have to,cos he'd know he was going to change his mind even before he decided it...ugh, confusing!


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Most of us who are seeking answers realized that the bible has very few in the context of a deity. Even religious apologists admit that the bible was written by man. That fact is not in dispute, but it raises the question, what then are it's qualifications for being a divine work? The bible sucks at history, logic, and consistency and teaches us nothing about the mechanics of reality. The bible has nothing that sets it aside from any work of fiction, especially other religious texts which all say essentially the same thing. What is it I can find in the bible that is not in the Qur'an? The bible purports to be absolutely certain about the not only the existence of God, but the contents of his mind and will. For this, it gives not one shred of justification. Does that mean the bible is useless? Not at all, it just means when we go looking for evidence of divinity and apply objective standards of evaluation, we find nothing. So those of us who are seriously looking for answers about the idea of a deity find no worth in the bible.
> 
> 
> 
> What is your point? Many of them were deists. Theism certainly does not get credit for our country's origin, unless you count the desire to gain distance from persecution.


>>>>

My point, to the3 person who I posted it to, who claimed that Christians have done nothing productive/are useless/stupid/etc, is that most of our founding fathers were Christian.

The bible sucks at history?? Show me one example. Sucks at consistency? Show me one example.

Again- I believe the bible is true because there's tons of manuscript, archeological, prophetic and statistical evidence to support it. You reject it. Fine. Have a nice life. But please don't insult my intelligence by claiming you're "searching for answers". Not one person (that I can see) in this thread *is*. You've got your shrill 8th grades idiots, and your educated individuals who just want to show how educated they are. But there's no sincere searchers here. Which means we are *all* wasting our time.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

He never "changed his mind". Don't get sucked in by people's bs. And when was God ever a "dick"?



Hepheastus420 said:


> If his knowledge is infinite doesn't that mean he can change his mind?


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Nah I'd imagine it'd mean he wouldn have to,cos he'd know he was going to change his mind even before he decided it...ugh, confusing!


Lol it is way confusing. That's why I question my beliefs alot, I also come up with different conclusions, I just found out my beliefs are closely related to the beliefs of a Mormon. And even then I'm not really close to Mormons. 

Is god always learning? He can't be. But if his intelligence is infinite he must always be learning. Or maybe he just knew he had to punish them for some reason we don't know yet.... IDK.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> He never "changed his mind". Don't get sucked in by people's bs. And when was God ever a "dick"?


 I never said he was a dick.


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

I know...but it was in your quoteback.



Hepheastus420 said:


> I never said he was a dick.


----------



## Harrekin (Oct 15, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol it is way confusing. That's why I question my beliefs alot, I also come up with different conclusions, I just found out my beliefs are closely related to the beliefs of a Mormon. And even then I'm not really close to Mormons.
> 
> Is god always learning? He can't be. But if his intelligence is infinite he must always be learning. Or maybe he just knew he had to punish them for some reason we don't know yet.... IDK.


Well at least you think about it man. Why didn't you chime in before when I said about respecting people who make their own beliefs? Wouldve saved alot of arguing,lol. 

I think most people on this thread more dislike the blind faith types.


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts. I just finished a study of Job. I can boil it down to two words: shut up. Job and his "friends" went on and on about why God does what he does/allows what he allows, and finally God jumped in and said: "Shut up! Who are *you*? Were you there when I created the world? I know what I'm doing." I have LOTS of questions about God/the bible/etc. Questions are a *good* thing...because there *are* answers. I've stated why I believe the bible is true. No one here can state why it *isn't*. 



Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol it is way confusing. That's why I question my beliefs alot, I also come up with different conclusions, I just found out my beliefs are closely related to the beliefs of a Mormon. And even then I'm not really close to Mormons.
> 
> Is god always learning? He can't be. But if his intelligence is infinite he must always be learning. Or maybe he just knew he had to punish them for some reason we don't know yet.... IDK.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Well at least you think about it man. Why didn't you chime in before when I said about respecting people who make their own beliefs? Wouldve saved alot of arguing,lol.
> 
> I think most people on this thread more dislike the blind faith types.


Oh sorry lol, I didn't even see it. I just scrolled down to the last few posts to see wherethe debate was at.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I know...but it was in your quoteback.


I never said he was a dick in any of my quotebacks. My intent wasn't meant for it to seem like I think he's a dick, simply because I don't think he's a dick. The things I say are because I honestly don't know anything about god. I have never seen him nor met him, someday I hope I do, but for now how do you expect me to be able to know why he did the things he did?


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## Harrekin (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts. I just finished a study of Job. I can boil it down to two words: shut up. Job and his "friends" went on and on about why God does what he does/allows what he allows, and finally God jumped in and said: "Shut up! Who are *you*? Were you there when I created the world? I know what I'm doing." I have LOTS of questions about God/the bible/etc. Questions are a *good* thing...because there *are* answers. I've stated why I believe the bible is true. No one here can state why it *isn't*.


No offense but you obviously didn't learn much dude, the Bible isn't supposed to be taken literally...can you not use any sort of logical reasoning towards it? You still havnt said how Noah fit all the animals in a boat with roughly the dimensions I stated before. 

I mean rationally speaking a cubit can only be so long, 36cm being the reasonable maximum. Come on man, give me something believable, convince me...no insults.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts. I just finished a study of Job. I can boil it down to two words: shut up. Job and his "friends" went on and on about why God does what he does/allows what he allows, and finally God jumped in and said: "Shut up! Who are *you*? Were you there when I created the world? I know what I'm doing." I have LOTS of questions about God/the bible/etc. Questions are a *good* thing...because there *are* answers. I've stated why I believe the bible is true. No one here can state why it *isn't*.


Why are you telling me this? Why are you trying to argue with me? I don't want to argue with you, I respect your beliefs just like I hope you respect mine. And that's exactly what I mean, I don't know why god did anything. And I have said many times that I hope god will do the right thing and he knows what he's doing, so that's that. 

Also I'm not trying to come up with a reason the bible is false, I look for wisdom in everything, including the bible.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> No offense but you obviously didn't learn much dude, the Bible isn't supposed to be taken literally...can you not use any sort of logical reasoning towards it? You still havnt said how Noah fit all the animals in a boat with roughly the dimensions I stated before.
> 
> I mean rationally speaking a cubit can only be so long, 36cm being the reasonable maximum. Come on man, give me something believable, convince me...no insults.


Here you go buddy, it's pretty legitimate and has been looked through thoroughly>>http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html 
A cubit is at least 45 cm long. It tells you more about the dimensions in the link.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> >>>>
> 
> My point, to the3 person who I posted it to, who claimed that Christians have done nothing productive/are useless/stupid/etc, is that most of our founding fathers were Christian.
> 
> ...


The Treaty of Tripoli, drafted by George Washington and signed on January 3, 1797 by John Adams, outlines our founding fathers collective attitude on Christianity fairly well.



> As the Government of the United States of America* is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion*,as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


While this says nothing about the personal beliefs of the individual founders, it does demonstrate quite clearly that they did not want the US to be a Christian republic. The secularism of the constitution is what allows religion to be a free enterprise.

If we did look closer at the founders personal beliefs, what do we find? Lets look at some quotes. Look them up if you think they may be out of context.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect." - James Madison

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies" - Benjamin Franklin

The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the Hand of Divinity itself, and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power. 
- Alexander Hamilton


These are just a scant few of course. While none of these quotes suggests the fathers were atheists (far from it) they do suggest that the fathers (most of them) did not believe Christ was divine. When you claim that most of the founding fathers were Christians, you are not commenting on any history that actually happened.

I will satisfy your request for examples of incorrect biblical history and inconsistencies with my next post. Then we will examine your proposal that the bible is backed up by manuscript, archeological, prophetic and statistical evidence.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 15, 2011)

What is it that we should all be trying to do? We should all be trying to make the world a better place. But everyone is all talk and no action. 

Their beliefs give them the excuse to sit around and talk, while doing nothing. So they can go on with their lives exactly as they were living it before.

Buying things they don't need instead of using their money responsibly to help others. They buy their new clothes without ever having to think about the people thousands of miles away who have NONE! These are just a couple examples.

Until they realize the truth, they will continue to believe what they want so they can keep living life the way they like, instead of giving back to the world, giving back to the universe.

They don't have to change because they think the world will change for them, or that it is out of their control... it is an excuse. 

And they will sit, and they will wait. And nothing will happen because none of them are going to change their behaviors. 

None of them will give up things they don't need, to people who need them. None of them will give up their comforts, to make others more comfortable. None of them will give up their fortunes, to help less unfortunates. 

It is about equalizing our happiness with the rest of the worlds, and our beliefs give us the excuse to sit and wait, to do nothing about our own behavior. To continue being selfish in the guise of self-lessness. 

Unless we change our behaviors, the world will stay in the hell it is in right now&#8230; until it may be too late.

All talk and no action. 

We must all change our behavior to be better parts of ourselves.

But no one will... because we like our beliefs, homes, our video games, our shoes and clothes, our burgers and French fries, our drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. 

To make change we must be change, but our beliefs give us the excuse to keep doing the same things over and over again without ever taking full responsibility for what we are doing, for every action we take, and how it affects EVERYONE&#8230; not just the people and places that surround you. 

No one wants to give up what they have become attached to, whether it be materialistic items we don&#8217;t need, or beliefs we don&#8217;t need; they would rather turn their back on the world and be selfish, while parading around like they are making a difference, when they keep making the same decisions about their lives over and over again. The same patterns, which will not help the world but continue to drive it deeper and deeper into self-destruction.
All talk, and no action. 


I believe to wake up, is to become utterly conscious about every single decision you make, about every single thought you think&#8230; and to take responsibility in doing what you know is right for each and every one of those decisions or thoughts. 

I can lead you to water but I cannot make you drink, I can help you hear but I cannot make you listen, I can open your eyes but I cannot make you see. He who has ears let him hear, he who has eyes let him see. 

Do what&#8217;s easy and continue to live life the way you like, the way you always have been, or do what&#8217;s hard and really truly believe in YOURSELF. not god.

dont be an excuse, be an example


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

Zaehet Strife said:


> What is it that we should all be trying to do? We should all be trying to make the world a better place. But everyone is all talk and no action.
> 
> Their beliefs give them the excuse to sit around and talk, while doing nothing. So they can go on with their lives exactly as they were living it before.
> 
> ...


I like what you're saying, but what does it have to do with the topic of the thread? I'm not trying to be a dick BTW, .


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 15, 2011)

it doesnt really, just havent been able to get anyones input on that...or views, and i figured it i posted it on here more people might read it which would result in me being able to read more about what people think about it. i know its not the right place, but i just cant seem to get anyones criticisms on it.


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## mindphuk (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> >>>>
> 
> My point, to the3 person who I posted it to, who claimed that Christians have done nothing productive/are useless/stupid/etc, is that most of our founding fathers were Christian.
> 
> ...


 You're the only one I see being shrill. 

You have nothing outside of the bible to support it's supernatural claims. The fact that some of the places mentioned in the bible actually existed at one time in no way demonstrates the veracity of the claims of the bible. In fact, archeology has shown that many of the places that were conquered by Joshua and the Israelites were already in ruins by the time of the supposed exodus. Dates and times don't match. There is virtually no evidence of the exodus in spite of the fact that the Egyptians were fastidious record keepers. It is useless to use prophecy to support your claims unless you can definitively demonstrate that additions were not made after the fact. Other than that, how about if you list some of this evidence to support the historicity of the bible.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

Zaehet Strife said:


> it doesnt really, just havent been able to get anyones input on that...or views, and i figured it i posted it on here more people might read it which would result in me being able to read more about what people think about it. i know its not the right place, but i just cant seem to get anyones criticisms on it.


Well I honestly think that most people aren't gonna do what is right because they are too lazy. I know that doesn't justify it, but it's the sad sad truth. Instead of writing down reasons why people are screwed up because of their possessions how about you make a thread that can be used as a discussion and a step by step guide to separating from our materialistic world and gain true happiness. Like the first step could be trying to convince all of RIU to join a donation service that helps aide third world countries. 
Do you get what I'm saying? People are lost and they need you to show them the path, so go ahead and show them dude. Good luck on getting people's attention, if you need help I'll bump the thread a few times until it lifts off with criticism.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> You're the only one I see being shrill.
> 
> You have nothing outside of the bible to support it's supernatural claims. The fact that some of the places mentioned in the bible actually existed at one time in no way demonstrates the veracity of the claims of the bible. In fact, archeology has shown that many of the places that were conquered by Joshua and the Israelites were already in ruins by the time of the supposed exodus. Dates and times don't match. There is virtually no evidence of the exodus in spite of the fact that the Egyptians were fastidious record keepers. It is useless to use prophecy to support your claims unless you can definitively demonstrate that additions were not made after the fact. Other than that, how about if you list some of this evidence to support the historicity of the bible.


 There's not too much historic evidence that supports the bible, but you must admit there's some.... just a little.


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## mindphuk (Oct 15, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> There's not too much historic evidence that supports the bible, but you must admit there's some.... just a little.


There's also much that contradicts the bible. Something that SoCal seems to ignore.


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## cannabineer (Oct 15, 2011)

Zaehet Strife said:


> it doesnt really, just havent been able to get anyones input on that...or views, and i figured it i posted it on here more people might read it which would result in me being able to read more about what people think about it. i know its not the right place, but i just cant seem to get anyones criticisms on it.


Zaehet, this is the most plain human down-to-earth thing I've seen you post in my short tenure as an SS&P participant. It's approachable.
If I contrast it with your previous post, I see why I've been unmoved to respond to your more usual posts. In them, you're so declarative, so sure of yourself (imo). It doesn't seem like you're inviting discussion so much as dispensing what you feel is truth. To my eyes that truth is uniformly vague in a way that makes isolating a "talking point" and building dialog around it ... not easy. I cannot critique a mirage. So I shook my head, thought "another Strife Strafe(tm)" and moved on. 
My suggestion is that if you're really inviting a discussion, post something more limted, more bounded and definite. Jm$.02. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> There's also much that contradicts the bible. Something that SoCal seems to ignore.


There's truth and there's contradictions, that's all I have to say in y'all's debate.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> There's not too much historic evidence that supports the bible, but you must admit there's some.... just a little.


There's armor at the bottom of the red sea (Egyptians). There is a burned mountain top where god sat, at Siani (Sigh uh Nie). There are Salt pillars at Gammorah. There is evidence.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 15, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> There's also much that contradicts the bible. Something that SoCal seems to ignore.


Such as no evidence of Jews in Egypt.


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## diesel15 (Oct 15, 2011)

to the person who sent the pm. let the blind lead the blind.


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## mindphuk (Oct 15, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> There's armor at the bottom of the red sea (Egyptians). There is a burned mountain top where god sat, at Siani (Sigh uh Nie). There are Salt pillars at Gammorah. There is evidence.


Link to evidence of Egyptian armor in the Red Sea dated to the time of the exodus? No one knows the route the Israelites took. There is argument over whether the correct translation is the Red Sea or the Reed Sea. Mt. Sinai likewise has never been found although there are numerous candidates. I have no idea what burned top you are talking about, a link would be helpful. Mt. Horeb was also mentioned in other places. 
There are salt pillars all around the Dead Sea area yet no one has found remnants of a city of the size that they can identify as Gomorrah or Sodom. More likely that the story was created to explain why there are salt pillars of human stature. 



Finshaggy said:


> Such as no evidence of Jews in Egypt.


Yes.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

Dude...it wasn't *you* that said it...it was someone you were quoting.



Hepheastus420 said:


> I never said he was a dick in any of my quotebacks. My intent wasn't meant for it to seem like I think he's a dick, simply because I don't think he's a dick. The things I say are because I honestly don't know anything about god. I have never seen him nor met him, someday I hope I do, but for now how do you expect me to be able to know why he did the things he did?


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

You don't want an answer. You just want to argue.



Harrekin said:


> No offense but you obviously didn't learn much dude, the Bible isn't supposed to be taken literally...can you not use any sort of logical reasoning towards it? You still havnt said how Noah fit all the animals in a boat with roughly the dimensions I stated before.
> 
> I mean rationally speaking a cubit can only be so long, 36cm being the reasonable maximum. Come on man, give me something believable, convince me...no insults.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

Dude...that wasn't directed towards you.



Hepheastus420 said:


> Why are you telling me this? Why are you trying to argue with me? I don't want to argue with you, I respect your beliefs just like I hope you respect mine. And that's exactly what I mean, I don't know why god did anything. And I have said many times that I hope god will do the right thing and he knows what he's doing, so that's that.
> 
> Also I'm not trying to come up with a reason the bible is false, I look for wisdom in everything, including the bible.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Dude...it wasn't *you* that said it...it was someone you were quoting.


Ahhhh I see lol. I was confused since quoted me and asked "when was god ever a dick?".


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 15, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ahhhh I see lol. I was confused since quoted me and asked "when was god ever a dick?".


...fkn man, ever watch porn? (hehe...)


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## cannabineer (Oct 15, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ahhhh I see lol. I was confused since quoted me and asked "when was god ever a dick?".


Might be a question better directed to Hindus ... google "Shiva lingam"  cn


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 15, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Might be a question better directed to Hindus ... google "Shiva lingam"  cn


...the eternal coupling - I even ponder this over tying knots. Sad, I know


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 15, 2011)

Shiva is nice for some humans, but just the other day "my god" got all smashed up by a lot of posters with their own hidden beliefs so I'm gonna douche out some of these idols from the collective consciousness of people that don't even exist. Exhibit 1 will begin now.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ooooh Shiva! check out this guy. Really? Who would have thought a blue snake man could be so cute? Atleast "zombie Jesus" ascended into heaven after his autoresurrection.





uh huh, yea that's cute. NEXT!










hmmm what else do you guys want to see... how about some omniscient elephant man god images!!!!!!!!!!!





how about a super monkeyman god? maybe he was just an ultra evolved ape that superceded the rest of us right?derrrrrrrrrrrrr





how about some Golden Cow to bow down too yay??





buddah





super mega cow again. Bow down to it and suck on it's multitude of tittys which vometeth milk





And on and on, many more fantastic pictures may be shown to those that need examples of what crappy gods look like. Okay? Now put that in your laboratory and smoke it! Next up is a God that is very likable around the world.... the one true mysterious God who is also the Lamb of the Father, Jesus Christ!!!!





now have fun looking at the shiny pictures ooooOOOOOooooo


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## Heisenberg (Oct 15, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Shiva is nice for some humans, but just the other day "my god" got all smashed up by a lot of posters with their own hidden beliefs so I'm gonna douche out some of these idols from the collective consciousness of people that don't even exist.


Your god is distinguished from the others how?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 16, 2011)

I love Shiva. Shiva's an OG. (Original God, lol. He is in the Holy Trinity of the first written religion)


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## Finshaggy (Oct 16, 2011)

And just to explain. I'm pretty sure that picture of Shiva as a crazy killer guy is actually symbolizing his transformation from "Rudra" to "Shiva". I just say that because that looks like Rudra on the ground, under Shiva's foot. Rudra is just baby Shiva though.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm looking at it now, and that is actually Shiva on the ground. I'm confused as shit right now.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 16, 2011)

Shiva is the one on the ground, but also the one above. Shiva wears a crescent moon for a crown, and the one above is. Shiva has 3 stripes in his forehead to symbolize the holy trinity, and sits on tiger skin to represent his conquering of lust I believe. And the guy on the ground has both of those.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 16, 2011)

what about Golden Cow? What is the difference between it and any other false God?


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 16, 2011)

Well let's see. If you can (probably doesn't) discern the difference between "god's people" which kill in the name of God, and the God itself, I would say that if you advance to the Holy Bible's new testament and actually read it (maybe again?) you would clearly see that Jesus Christ was not a proponent of war and the slaughter of people. His "followers" did it through various crusades, but hahaha, there aren't any more of those, heisenberg. Nowadays people can make rational decisions themselves. However there are many that choose the right to remain lost as individuals. Who has your back? Jesus Christ has slaughtered how many with his own hands? 0, heisenberg. Go check the "other gods", just look at the first picture? why did that giant adult smurf god cut off other smurf dude's head? Because there was candy inside???????????????


Heisenberg said:


> Your god is distinguished from the others how?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 16, 2011)

C.O. ...OLY carp man, posting pictures of kali durga like that will get your sht cut off. I'd be careful with that... and with the overuse of question marks, I'd say.


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## ghantron (Oct 16, 2011)

its the mono-atomic gold cow, dog.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 16, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Well let's see. If you can (probably doesn't) discern the difference between "god's people" which kill in the name of God, and the God itself, I would say that if you advance to the Holy Bible's new testament and actually read it (maybe again?) you would clearly see that Jesus Christ was not a proponent of war and the slaughter of people. His "followers" did it through various crusades, but hahaha, there aren't any more of those, heisenberg. Nowadays people can make rational decisions themselves. However there are many that choose the right to remain lost as individuals. Who has your back? Jesus Christ has slaughtered how many with his own hands? 0, heisenberg. Go check the "other gods", just look at the first picture? why did that giant adult smurf god cut off other smurf dude's head? Because there was candy inside???????????????


 I was hoping for something that distinguished Jesus in terms of validity or being real. If you are just saying he was nicer, then that's fine. Relatively speaking, Jesus is a pretty nice deity with pretty passive ideas, even if he is not totally above cruelty. His dad is a different story. I will grant you that your made up God as expressed via Jesus is a pretty okay guy. Fortunately the choice is not restricted to which version of God to follow, since the idea of any god has yet to gain serious plausibility. 

As for who has my back, my friends and family of course. I prefer this pragmatic approach to covering my ass rather than gambling on which hollow idea of God to worship. My loved ones have earned my trust and confidence, proven it to me many times, and to me that deserves more than faith in a nearly unintelligible system of deity worship. What message would I be sending to them if I passed over their selfless expressions of love in favor of some absurd god, especially one as cruel and unworthy as the Abrahamic God, despite Jesus's kid gloves. I have a better sense of integrity than that. This sense of integrity; this critical introspection, among other things, also affords me confidence in myself which allows me to feel okay even if no one had my back. I am an honest man; I am a responsible man; I am right with myself, which makes me a courageous man as well. When I need inspiration and fortitude, I find it within myself. When I need a helping hand or a shoulder to lean on, I find it, justly, among my friends. I fail to see how I could find anything even close to this reassurance and security from surrendering my intelect to belief in a deity, _especially_ the Christian version.


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## TogTokes (Oct 16, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I was hoping for something that distinguished Jesus in terms of validity or being real. If you are just saying he was nicer, then that's fine. Relatively speaking, Jesus is a pretty nice deity with pretty passive ideas, even if he is not totally above cruelty. His dad is a different story. I will grant you that your made up God as expressed via Jesus is a pretty okay guy. Fortunately the choice is not restricted to which version of God to follow, since the idea of any god has yet to gain serious plausibility.
> 
> As for who has my back, my friends and family of course. I prefer this pragmatic approach to covering my ass rather than gambling on which hollow idea of God to worship. My loved ones have earned my trust and confidence, proven it to me many times, and to me that deserves more than faith in a nearly unintelligible system of deity worship. What message would I be sending to them if I passed over their selfless expressions of love in favor of some absurd god, especially one as cruel and unworthy as the Abrahamic God, despite Jesus's kid gloves. I have a better sense of integrity than that. This sense of integrity; this critical introspection, among other things, also affords me confidence in myself which allows me to feel okay even if no one had my back. I am an honest man; I am a responsible man; I am right with myself, which makes me a courageous man as well. When I need inspiration and fortitude, I find it within myself. When I need a helping hand or a shoulder to lean on, I find it, justly, among my friends. I fail to see how I could find anything even close to this reassurance and security from surrendering my intelect to belief in a deity, _especially_ the Christian version.


 This. And seriously, you guys believing hardcore in God and shit. Are just wasting time when you die.. Same shit that happens to a ant when you step on it is going to happen to you.. Done and gone.. No eternal Cloud Clubs with your friends.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 16, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> lol, this dude ^^ mad cause im tellin the truth and he cant handle it. fyi high school was over for awhile but iguess you aint get the memo. lol


you wouldnt know the truth if it slapped you in the face ....and threatining people with your imaginary hell lmao lame as fuck , prove your hell exists before trying to scare people with it you weirdo .


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## TogTokes (Oct 16, 2011)

Hell yeah sure. Santa can fly and boogie men exist.. What a fkin retard.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 16, 2011)

TogTokes said:


> This. And seriously, you guys believing hardcore in God and shit. Are just wasting time when you die.. Same shit that happens to a ant when you step on it is going to happen to you.. Done and gone.. No eternal Cloud Clubs with your friends.


So if we are gone for eternity how are we wasting time? At the end what will anything we do matter? What is the point of complaining? Why don't you drop tons of acid, eat all the shrooms, shoot all the heroin, take all the x, everything until you die?


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 16, 2011)

usually the offended party will need to atleast know my name before they could track down my family and kidnap it and cut their shitt off in front my my eyes before they cut my shit off. But that's just rediculous. I can add some special photoshop effects to durka durka if I wanted. oh, and thx for telling me durkas name, now I will send my evil henchman out to blow up his family while he watches, then I crush his head under a front tire of a ford fiesta


eye exaggerate said:


> C.O. ...OLY carp man, posting pictures of kali durga like that will get your sht cut off. I'd be careful with that... and with the overuse of question marks, I'd say.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 16, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I prefer this pragmatic approach to covering my ass rather than gambling on which hollow idea of God to worship


 A truly unique picture you have painted of what faith is all about. I never saw it as hollow and empty before... you should direct movies and let your dismal creative energy flow on screen for EMO people to watch, like those that love Twilight


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## Finshaggy (Oct 16, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> what about Golden Cow? What is the difference between it and any other false God?


You almost got it right.

What is the difference between gold cow and ANY god.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 16, 2011)

sounds like you should not have won the great sperm race after your dad nutted inside of your mother. should have been one of those other sperms that got the egg, or maybe a condom could have blocked your path. Then all of the atheists at RIU could laugh how you died like a worthless sperm cell.


TogTokes said:


> This. And seriously, you guys believing hardcore in God and shit. Are just wasting time when you die.. Same shit that happens to a ant when you step on it is going to happen to you.. Done and gone.. No eternal Cloud Clubs with your friends.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 16, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So if we are gone for eternity how are we wasting time? At the end what will anything we do matter? What is the point of complaining? Why don't you drop tons of acid, eat all the shrooms, shoot all the heroin, take all the x, everything until you die?


This was the Columbine theory...

"Do you believe in god??"
"No."
"Then suffer with us."

"Do you believe in god??"
"Yes."
"Then go to heaven." Then they blew their head off.


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 16, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> This was the Columbine theory...
> 
> "Do you believe in god??"
> "No."
> ...


i tell you what they got a story on netflix about a girl that died there and it was fuckin crazy. she was a believer in god and the shit she was doin and sayin before she died was pretty wild


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 16, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i tell you what they got a story on netflix about a girl that died there and it was fuckin crazy. she was a believer in god and the shit she was doin and sayin before she died was pretty wild


What's the story called? If you can find it please post it, .


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## Finshaggy (Oct 16, 2011)

This whole show is bad ass, but click to 6:15.

[video=youtube;hIrvK7xTbAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIrvK7xTbAg[/video]


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 16, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> This whole show is bad ass, but click to 6:15.
> 
> [video=youtube;hIrvK7xTbAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIrvK7xTbAg[/video]


Damn my iPod doesn't let me see the video, can I find it on YouTube?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 16, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Damn my iPod doesn't let me see the video, can I find it on YouTube?


Yeah, search "Xavier Renegade angel damnesia vu" I got it from youtube.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 16, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Yeah, search "Xavier Renegade angel damnesia vu" I got it from youtube.


Alright I'll do that after football, .


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 16, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What's the story called? If you can find it please post it, .


its called untold stories of columbine. when i watched that shit it shocked me dude.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 16, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> This whole show is bad ass, but click to 6:15.
> 
> [video=youtube;hIrvK7xTbAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIrvK7xTbAg[/video]


Xavier was the inspiration for my 'location' paraphrase.


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## diesel15 (Oct 16, 2011)

first off iwant to apologise to rawbudzski. im sorry man, iwas wrong for saying those things. and iwant to say sorry to all the believers and unbelievers because, im on here talkin bout im a Christian and not representing 1in my actions. im sorry yall, ilove yall and if iever hurt anybody's feelings, im sorry. ijust want to post some things iread, thats all, please forgive me.
Proverbs ch.8 v.13

The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth do I hate.

33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
35 For whoso findeth me(wisdom) findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.
36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
ch9 v10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

to the believers, keep your faith and dont be fooled. to the unbelievers
ch.9 v6
Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.
ch.8 v.35
For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 16, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> first off iwant to apologise to rawbudzski. im sorry man, iwas wrong for saying those things. and iwant to say sorry to all the believers and unbelievers because, im on here talkin bout im a Christian and not representing 1in my actions. im sorry yall, ilove yall and if iever hurt anybody's feelings, im sorry. ijust want to post some things iread, thats all, please forgive me.
> Proverbs ch.8 v.13
> 
> The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth do I hate.
> ...


Chill man.... The most you called rawbudski was a satanist, he doesn't care because doesn't believe in Satan. Other than that I saw no insults come from your posts. Your good dude...


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 16, 2011)

that was very sweet diesel, truly from the heart I know it ... 
i'm from america, and the christians here do it like this. holy war!





hey heisenberg.... if other cultures throw shoes and beat people to death with shoes as a means of the ultimate disrespect, does that mean the same around the globe and even in Canada too?


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## diesel15 (Oct 16, 2011)

thanks guys, iappreciate that. but ihave to set an example for people to follow and ican only do it by putting the Lord 1st. on my own, truefully icouldn't and wouldn't do the will of God.
Psalms ch.32 v.2

Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Psalms ch.32 v.5-6

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and my iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.


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## diesel15 (Oct 16, 2011)

Psalms ch.31 v. 9-10

9 Have mercy upon me, O Lord, for I am in trouble: mine eye is consumed with grief, yea, my soul and my belly.
10 For my life is spent with grief, and my years with sighing: my strength faileth because of mine iniquity, and my bones are consumed.
15 My times are in thy hand: deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.
16 Make thy face to shine upon thy servant: for thy mercies' sake


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## Harrekin (Oct 17, 2011)

No offense Diesel, but we didn't ask for you to post your fucking scripture here, so respectfully keep it to yourself. 

That's the reason most of us hate your stupid dogma, cos you try force it down peoples throats. 

Keep your delusions to yourself.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 17, 2011)




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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 17, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> No offense Diesel, but we didn't ask for you to post your fucking scripture here, so respectfully keep it to yourself.
> 
> That's the reason most of us hate your stupid dogma, cos you try force it down peoples throats.
> 
> Keep your delusions to yourself.


He's apologizing using scriptures from the bible, lol. I do see your point though. Also diesel apologize from your heart man. God never wanted us to express ourselves strictly from the bible. You have your own emotions that your god gave you, . Use those emotions man. Peace though dude, .


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## RawBudzski (Oct 17, 2011)

Ezekiel 23:19-20
Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 17, 2011)

this bible thing isn't so bad after all.. .


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## Harrekin (Oct 17, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Ezekiel 23:19-20
> Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.


Thats probably the only genuine/100% accurate thing written in it,lmao...well that's if there was any evidence at all of the Exodus...which there isn't


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## Finshaggy (Oct 17, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Ezekiel 23:19-20
> Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.


Did only the donkey dick men buy ho's back then? Not one guy had a little dick that was going to her. That sucks for her, makes it a little easier for any kid to walk out though. I don't think it would be fun fuckin horse men all day.


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## diesel15 (Oct 17, 2011)

its cool, im not even trippin cause iused to be just like yall in not believin in God. iknow what its like, thinking you right and never lived both sides, but a fake bible site though? did you know it was fake?


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## Harrekin (Oct 17, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Did only the donkey dick men buy ho's back then? Not one guy had a little dick that was going to her. That sucks for her, makes it a little easier for any kid to walk out though. I don't think it would be fun fuckin horse men all day.


She was probably "gapped" and needed the ispin mhor (big sausage in my language) for her to enjoy it.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 17, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> its cool, im not even trippin cause iused to be just like yall in not believin in God. iknow what its like, thinking you right and never lived both sides, but a fake bible site though? did you know it was fake?


Lol. I was raised Christian until I was 13. I decided on my own at that time that it was stupid, based on conversations with Christians at my church, and how they handled conversation.
Later when I was 15 and 17 I read the Bible twice, and during those years (15,16,17) I also read translations of the Rig Veda, and Quran. Along with many other personal studies, regarding religions with and without books to refer too. 
Me not following the word of, or believing in god has nothing to do with not knowing both sides. 
I know what you said wasn't directed at me, but it seemed like what you were saying was that people who aren't Christian haven't "Seen the light". I'm more moral, and understand the true world around me better than OVER HALF the people I've met in a church.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 17, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> She was probably "gapped" and needed the ispin mhor (big sausage in my language) for her to enjoy it.


So it was _AFTER_ a couple kids, lol.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 17, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> So it was _AFTER_ a couple kids, lol.


*see haiku thread


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## RawBudzski (Oct 17, 2011)

What was fake. That verse is real, though yes the site is not supposed to be serious about scripture.. you can look up that section in the bible.. it says alot more than that.. Depending on which version you read, it has the exact thing I wrote written in the bible.


diesel15 said:


> its cool, im not even trippin cause iused to be just like yall in not believin in God. iknow what its like, thinking you right and never lived both sides, but a fake bible site though? did you know it was fake?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 18, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I was hoping for something that distinguished Jesus in terms of validity or being real. If you are just saying he was nicer, then that's fine. Relatively speaking, Jesus is a pretty nice deity with pretty passive ideas, even if he is not totally above cruelty. His dad is a different story. I will grant you that your made up God as expressed via Jesus is a pretty okay guy. Fortunately the choice is not restricted to which version of God to follow, since the idea of any god has yet to gain serious plausibility.
> 
> As for who has my back, my friends and family of course. I prefer this pragmatic approach to covering my ass rather than gambling on which hollow idea of God to worship. My loved ones have earned my trust and confidence, proven it to me many times, and to me that deserves more than faith in a nearly unintelligible system of deity worship. What message would I be sending to them if I passed over their selfless expressions of love in favor of some absurd god, especially one as cruel and unworthy as the Abrahamic God, despite Jesus's kid gloves. I have a better sense of integrity than that. This sense of integrity; this critical introspection, among other things, also affords me confidence in myself which allows me to feel okay even if no one had my back. I am an honest man; I am a responsible man; I am right with myself, which makes me a courageous man as well. When I need inspiration and fortitude, I find it within myself. When I need a helping hand or a shoulder to lean on, I find it, justly, among my friends. I fail to see how I could find anything even close to this reassurance and security from surrendering my intelect to belief in a deity, _especially_ the Christian version.


What's up heis?
Umm I would like to say that I don't follow Jesus in order for him to have my back in my life. I gain respect and love from my family and friends alone, I don't need help from anybody. However, you can take some examples from the scriptures and apply them to everyday situations; but people still make their own decisions. At least that's what I always thought Christians thought, well that's what I think . 
I also think the only thing Christians would really need Jesus for is the afterlife, if there is an afterlife. That may sound bad, but it's just coming out wrong and I don't know how to say what I'm thinking lol. I'm saying that yes Jesus had good teachings (IMO) but it's up to you to follow those teachings. But we can't just do some ritual and get into heaven. No, in the Christian religion we need Jesus to get into heaven. 

Ahh, I hope you kinda get what I'm saying lol.
On earth we make are own choices and are just as independent as anyone else. But if there is an afterlife, then we will need to depend on Jesus. 

I'm saying we don't need Jesus to cover our asses on earth, at least I don't....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 18, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> its cool, im not even trippin cause iused to be just like yall in not believin in God. iknow what its like, thinking you right and never lived both sides, but a fake bible site though? did you know it was fake?


Dude, they will always make fun of god, the bible, and Jesus.... 
Just don't let it get to you, it's not your responsibility to make sure they follow god, it's your responsibility to follow what you believe . 

If you want to get back at them, make a thread showing historic evidence that shows many of the things written in the bible held truth. Or just point out flaws in different discoveries in science... or just don't care. If you truly believe in god, you will know that they will have to deal with him, not in a bad way, but I'm pretty sure it would be awkward for them to meet god.


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## sso (Oct 18, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What's up heis?
> Umm I would like to say that I don't follow Jesus in order for him to have my back in my life. I gain respect and love from my family and friends alone, I don't need help from anybody. However, you can take some examples from the scriptures and apply them to everyday situations; but people still make their own decisions. At least that's what I always thought Christians thought, well that's what I think .
> *I also think the only thing Christians would really need Jesus for is the afterlife, if there is an afterlife.* That may sound bad, but it's just coming out wrong and I don't know how to say what I'm thinking lol. I'm saying that yes Jesus had good teachings (IMO) but it's up to you to follow those teachings. But we can't just do some ritual and get into heaven. No, in the Christian religion we need Jesus to get into heaven.
> 
> ...


sounds like you are afraid of death and need assurances its going to be allright. (course with a freaky god like that, ya´d be jumping at jesus lol)

what if i told you, you are god, everything is god and you have nothing to worry about?
actually you can infer this from some of jesus´s "teachings" though personally i think the majority of "jesus´s" "teachings" are absolute major crap 

"ok, there is this dude, he´s got 3 slaves, one slave made him alot of money, the rest didnt as much, ok class, raise your hand if you think you know who is the best slave?"

kinda cant help but think the bible was heavily edited to favor later rulers 

doesnt really fit with "if you havent got love, you havent got anything" (all joy comes from love) and lines like that.

the line "i am the way" (and whatnot) could be understood as "become like me (good and forgiving and loving dude that plays with children and is nice to women(fantastic for the times) and everyone)

"heaven is all around you" could be understood as "heaven is here, if you want it"

all great teachings, but the bible is full of crap too and obviously a mix of many different texts, edited to fit the rulers view of things (the poor should be humble and happy with their lot (so they dont stick a hayfork up your ass when you are sleeping))

did you know that when people were not allowed to read the bible (indirectly , they werent allowed to learn latin)
the line "honor your father and mother" was actually "honor your pope, your priest, your king, your lord and your mother and father" ?

believe in god (if it helps you "ye are gods" remember? "you are the light of the world")
believe in angels, believe in the afterlife, 

but why the fuck you gotta believe in the bible? ("if your kid misbehaves, take him out in the courtyard and stone him to death in front of all the village")

god of the old testament = "love me or burn! i give you free will! so you can love me or burn!" (love meaning serve me and sing hosannahs to me when i go to sleep)

god of the new testament? eh...depends on what part you read. 

but about being gods, "what i have done, ye will do and more"
i kinda think  jesus´s message was heavily misunderstood and later twisted too much.

or , it was simply just a mix from many sources, osiris, maybe teachings from buddha (lots of resemblance there)
plus others. 

doesnt really matter, if i need jesus in the afterlife, im sure he´s bound to forgive me not worshipping him in life 
after all he´s loving and forgiving and im a good man (i dont smack people till theyve smacked me at least once and arent stopping  (so according to old jesus himself i ought to be good enough)

or am i ? have i become as a child? well, i play games on the puter 

have i given up all my possessions? no, cant really do that in frigging iceland (really clever that jesus) without freezing to death in moments 
but im perfectly comfortable with just a small house, computer and a nice bed 

so im sure we can reach some sort of agreement (happy to skip having a house in heaven if its really nice there, othervise ill pick other lodgings, thank you very much, after all, my idea of heaven might not match his  though im sure his is pretty allright


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 18, 2011)

sso said:


> sounds like you are afraid of death and need assurances its going to be allright. (course with a freaky god like that, ya´d be jumping at jesus lol)
> 
> what if i told you, you are god, everything is god and you have nothing to worry about?
> actually you can infer this from some of jesus´s "teachings" though personally i think the majority of "jesus´s" "teachings" are absolute major crap
> ...


Jeez dude, that's a long post lol. I appreciate it alot man, but I don't fear death at all. I believe that god will end my existence. Heaven on earth is what I really want, but how the hell (hell, lol) can I do that? 

Why I believe in the bible? For idolizing Jesus pretty much, the same way people idolize their parents.

The old testament wasn't meant for us, those people were referred to as very evil people. They would rape children and women, steal from each other, and burn children alive for sacrafice to a false god; well god didn't like that very much so he laid the law down on them. The old testament law is fucked up because those people were fucked up....
In the new testament the only two things Jesus wanted you to live by is love god and your neighbors (in short). 
I have my personal reason to follow my beliefs, not to sound like a dick, .


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## Harrekin (Oct 18, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Jeez dude, that's a long post lol. I appreciate it alot man, but I don't fear death at all. I believe that god will end my existence. Heaven on earth is what I really want, but how the hell (hell, lol) can I do that?
> 
> Why I believe in the bible? For idolizing Jesus pretty much, the same way people idolize their parents.
> 
> ...


 And keep following them dude, more power to you...at least you dont try force us to be like you! Infact, here, +rep for you just for you not being a dick.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 18, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> And keep following them dude, more power to you...at least you dont try force us to be like you! Infact, here, +rep for you just for you not being a dick.


Lol, I appreciate the rep man, .


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## sso (Oct 18, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Jeez dude, that's a long post lol. I appreciate it alot man, but I don't fear death at all. I believe that god will end my existence. Heaven on earth is what I really want, but how the hell (hell, lol) can I do that?
> 
> Why I believe in the bible? For idolizing Jesus pretty much, the same way people idolize their parents.
> 
> ...


well, loving your neighbors and fellow man is how you create heaven on earth, dude 

whats heaven? well, the first thing that pops into mind, is that the people gotta be nice there, tolerant of differences, gentle, kind, loving, funloving,joyous, forgiving (and to themselves as well)
(. .personally i couldnt idolize jesus, any more than buddha, if god is allwise, then jesus can not have been him or heavily edited and added to his speech,some of the shit he "said" was awful stupid, buddha was a pretty wise guy but certainly not perfect of mind)
(ghandi comes to mind,"i like your jesus, but not your christians, they are nothing like him")

is that still true? well, not for all of them.

why do you believe god will end your existence?


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## sso (Oct 18, 2011)

by the way, mohammed said some doozies of wisdom, lot of crap, but he was actually quite more eloquent and wise than jesus (said quite alot of more helpful things)

(if you ignore all the bullshit (like all the "messengers" before him, he was still just a stupid man, just brighter than the rest of the monkeys with him, had some good wisdom but was also heavily colored by the crap of his time)


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## sso (Oct 18, 2011)

personally i dont follow any religion, just am of the opinion that wisdom can be learned everywhere. (and from anyone)

though its best to listen the most, to yourself  (unless you are a huge fucktard thats always making mistakes and shitting allover his own life, then i suggest you shutup and listen to wiser fools) (we are all fools, in one way or another ..)


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 18, 2011)

sso said:


> well, loving your neighbors and fellow man is how you create heaven on earth, dude
> 
> whats heaven? well, the first thing that pops into mind, is that the people gotta be nice there, tolerant of differences, gentle, kind, loving, funloving,joyous, forgiving (and to themselves as well)
> (. .personally i couldnt idolize jesus, any more than buddha, if god is allwise, then jesus can not have been him or heavily edited and added to his speech,some of the shit he "said" was awful stupid, buddha was a pretty wise guy but certainly not perfect of mind)
> ...


Yeah that's true, love your neighbors and you will find heaven. For the most part I do my duty, but there's always gonna be people full of hate.. Well in "heaven" there is no evil.. That sounds like paradise to me. 

Like I've said before, I don't know crap... So I'm not sure if Jesus is necessary for salvation, but I still do respect all other religion, and they all have good teachings. It's just I like Jesus most, IDK why lol. Yeah that saying from ghandi is amazing, it's very very true. I don't even like talking to most Christians. 
Like I've needed help before in a time of need. At that moment I had absolutely nobody in my life and was suffering from my depression, I started questioning the reason to live. So I went to a church, after the preacher was done preaching I met him in his back office. I spilled my guts to this guy, all the bad things I have done in my life, all the times I've hurt people, all the times I've been hurt, and how I don't see a reason to live... well he pretty much told me if I keep it up I'm going to hell. That's it, that's all he said. He tried using a fear tactic to get me to join his church instead of helping me. I went to this guy for help and he said I'm gonna burn, that's why I don't go to church, and that's why I also agree with what ghandi said. 
If Jesus was around (even if he wasn't the son of god) I know he would have helped me. I mean Jesus hung out with prostitutes and thieves, but he would never hang out with hypocrites, he didn't like hypocrites. Well that's what that preacher and many so called "Christians" are.. They are the ones that need to open their eyes and follow their religion the right way.

I know I'm a hypocrite too, because I screw with girls, drugs, and just everyday sins. I don't reall put up the effort to stop and so I know I disobey my beliefs. But then again I wonder if I'm a hypocrite or someone like the thief.... at least I don't judge as harshly as many religious people do...

Why do I believe god will end my existence? Well because I don't believe in hell in the way modern Christians do. 
Why would god punish us for not wanting to follow him? He wouldn't and it wouldn't make sense if he did because he is so forgiving.
Also Sheol was translated to hell, which should have been translated to grave. If you use the original wording in the bible you will find that the burning place they speak of is a place where they would literally burn (cremate) the bodies. And it's a place where they constantly had the fire lit. I believe when I die I won't be good enough to go to heaven, I believe god will send me to my grave to end my existence (there's also a passage where he says we came from ashes and we will return to ashes). 

I don't want to insult Mohammed because insulting him would be insulting some people's beliefs. But I have my reasons for not following him, he did have many wise teachings though too.




Lol sorry for the rant. When I get thinking I can't stop typing. I'm pretty sure there's many typos and stuff so yeah ignore that ha. Also my thoughts may be scrambled but hopefully you can understand my opinions.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 18, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> ghandi is amazing


-reporter to ghandi "what do you think of western civilization?"

-ghandi "I think it would be a good idea"


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## diesel15 (Oct 18, 2011)

Ezekiel ch. 23 v. 19-20

Yet she multiplied her whoredom, in calling to rememberance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issues of horses

what this chapter is talking about is, it was 2sisters, a-hO'-lah the elder and A-hol'-i-bah her sister. a-hOl'-lah played the harlot with 
6 Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses
7 Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

she didnt stop doing her whoredoms so the Lord delivered her into the hands of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted. they killed her and took her kids, and she became famous of women.

11 And when her sister A-hol'-i-bah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

she doted upon the Assyrians her neighbors, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horseman riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men(v.12).

she increased her whoredoms.

18 so she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my(the Lord) mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

yet she multiplied her whoredoms(v.19). 

so the Lord raised up her lovers against her and they shall take her, jewels, kids, burn her things, and take her whoredoms out of the land of Egypt, and the Lord will deliver her into the hands of whom she hated, 

29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms. 

the Lord did this because she gone awhoring after the heathen, and because she was polluted with their idols, and basically her sorrows were increased greatly(v.32-34). it goes on and says why God did those things and what the effect of her sins caused. and what happens when someone does adulteresses, whats going to happen to them.
icould tell yall some true stories that happened in real life both my own and whats published in recent articles that show undeniable proof of God, but im not because yall dont believe anyway. yall looking for God a way yall wont find him, and not every person who says they believe in God or is Christian really do. they think they do but they dont. isee it in some people on here too but im not about to say any names. even some preachers dont even believe in God foreal and they will fool many. if you want to know if God is real or not then pick up a bible, start reading, apply it to real, modern day life and ask yourself is this true. seek and know God for yourself that way you'll be sure.


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## mindphuk (Oct 18, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Or just point out flaws in different discoveries in science.


 I'm curious Hep, what exactly do you think that accomplishes? Maybe you wouldn't know but scientists are probably more familiar with the downfalls and problems with science than lay persons. You might not have heard of it but one of the greatest blind alleys (IMO) in modern science was the idea of phlogiston. Have you heard of it? I'm sure most science-oriented folks here have. Although I have seen this tactic used, I really don't understand how one connects the problems with science and the veracity of the claim of god. Please explain it to me if you would. TIA.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 18, 2011)

Babylon the great - metaphor of 'prostitution' - SACRED prostitution. Any covenant is a 'marriage'...perhaps implying that you are married to your flesh.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 18, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> I'm curious Hep, what exactly do you think that accomplishes? Maybe you wouldn't know but scientists are probably more familiar with the downfalls and problems with science than lay persons. You might not have heard of it but one of the greatest blind alleys (IMO) in modern science was the idea of phlogiston. Have you heard of it? I'm sure most science-oriented folks here have. Although I have seen this tactic used, I really don't understand how one connects the problems with science and the veracity of the claim of god. Please explain it to me if you would. TIA.


If they want to make fun of something he trusts so much and he's just gonna insult them, then I suggest that instead of insulting them, he could just point out the flaws in what they trust so much....


I'm not saying all atheists trust science, I'm saying those who were messing with with diesel have used science to back their claims before so diesel can attack what there flaws...

What does that accomplish? Well diesel argues with these people to try to make them believe. So if he started an argument with them over the subject of science, maybe diesel can learn a thing or two...

So just to be clear, I'm not connecting science with religion. .




It's better to argue than to just insult them for not believing in god...


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 18, 2011)

After reading some of the posts on the entire thread, I got to thinking of something. What about the Illuminatti and the New World Order? Does anybody believe in that? Does anybody believe that Uncle Sam wrinkly balls is gonna implant chips into people so small that it could be injected from an ordinary "flu" shot? Microtechnology has come a long way, and now a microtransmitter can be pretty damn small that you would need a microscope to see all of it. Does anyone here at all know, that the USA government has been working since the cold war on Pyschotronic technology, originally started by the Russians? Yes, that's right people. All the day while those that think about what Buddah to worship or what Dogma to practice, the government is preparing to shaft EVERYONE on a global level, in some more years (and now!). It is increasing today, look up pyschotronics and stop wasting time saying there is no salvation. Because, once you are under the control of the new world order, you may be lucky if you can even remember what Jesus Christ is, if not already too busy following the sodomite new world order agenda. Fucking crazy ? How about you put some evidence in your pipes and smoke it. I'm not going to bother, but you can just crack open a google and look up PSYCHOTRONICS. It's real. Much more real than witches and Durpa and Shiva and ghosts and aliens. Have fun


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## sso (Oct 18, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Yeah that's true, love your neighbors and you will find heaven. For the most part I do my duty, but there's always gonna be people full of hate.. Well in "heaven" there is no evil.. That sounds like paradise to me.
> *yes, that would be exceedingly nice.*
> Like I've said before, I don't know crap... So I'm not sure if Jesus is necessary for salvation*would you be good without him and other´s example? dunno, but i hope he doesnt need to hold everyone´s hands, poor guy would be busy till eternity *, but I still do respect all other religion, and they all have good teachings. It's just I like Jesus most, IDK why lol. Yeah that saying from ghandi is amazing, it's very very true. I don't even like talking to most Christians. *its all the judging and i am better than you attitude (thou shalt not judged, lest ye be judged )*
> Like I've needed help before in a time of need. At that moment I had absolutely nobody in my life and was suffering from my depression, I started questioning the reason to live. So I went to a church, after the preacher was done preaching I met him in his back office. I spilled my guts to this guy, all the bad things I have done in my life, all the times I've hurt people, all the times I've been hurt, and how I don't see a reason to live... well he pretty much told me if I keep it up I'm going to hell. That's it, that's all he said. He tried using a fear tactic to get me to join his church instead of helping me. I went to this guy for help and he said I'm gonna burn, that's why I don't go to church, and that's why I also agree with what ghandi said. *yes, fear god, was the "advice" i got from priests as a kid  even to a 10 year old, "fear your allloving god", was...eh,,,bit off,what else you got? lol *
> ...


*i had no trouble at all and what rant? we are having a conversation  

love, is the deepest and strongest part of you, it awakens with your heart.

love dies for those it loves, if it must, it forgives all. (it just cant be around evil, not for a long time, the hurt is too great, love does not force others to be love, its against its nature)
and love exists only in the living. we are love.

we are just full of crap too..

love is the greatest power, the power to create, to heal.

but if you love someone, you love their happiness, you love their freedom to be themselves.
you´d get sick of yourself if you tried to force them to be something else. (and they would leave, sooner or later)

look at true loving humans? and if god is love?
is actually love and nothing else, then it must be the greatest, most kindest, most forgiving and fantastic being ever, nurturing caring and never bossy 

so.

what is hate then? the devil?
so are both just emotions? (i actually control my emotions and can create emotions (yet be controlled by emotion if i let it)
hmm, so, mind body and emotions? emotions perhaps being the holy ghost?  the holy trinity?  lol
dunno, i guess there are always mysteries to be solved, but ill be damned if i start to worship that crap and be afraid of it.

*


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## sso (Oct 18, 2011)

ghandi and these guys..

humm, often people try to make something out of them that they are not.

ghandi once slept with a young girl to test his control over himself (meaning he was gonna fuck that young girl (old fart he was) if he failed to control himself)


the north vietnamese government is trying to make a sorta deity out of ho chi minh, golden statues of him, similar to buddha, and at first look, well, the dude looks very enlightened, charming bastards with some nuggets of wisdom, but if you look at his history closer, you will see all sorts of horrible cruelty.

what if that is forgotten? will we just remember his good deeds? will people still kneel infront of his statue in thousand years? will he still be thought of as a deity? (he is by some)
will his books be revered and worshipped?

i dont think so, mankind is evolving, but what other crap do we not know about jesus, mohammed (married a 9 year old) and buddha (former prince(you know what kings did))
?

what is edited out? forgotten? what is changed to fit their depiction as a deity? (quite many of the actions and words of these guys, does not fit a deity, more a bumbling human thats somewhat wise and is trying to share it, but is none the less, human! and fallible!, to be listened to and thought about what they said, but not damn revere them and worship (which blinds people))

like buddha said.

think about everything you hear, feel it out, if it rings true to you, then listen and take to heart.

if it does not ring true then no matter who said it, do not listen!

if you dont understand it, lay it aside for later understanding.

do not let crap you dont understand, control (and ruin) your life.


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## sso (Oct 18, 2011)

illumati and that crap?

well, there are idiots in cloaks that do silly rituals to goatgods 

and there are idiots that conspire for wealth and money, sometimes in groups.

they are idiots, so they like to call themselves "mysterious" names

illuminati = the illuminated (the enlightened) or something like mystero ordo (order of mystery) lol

yes, and?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 18, 2011)

sso said:


> ghandi and these guys..
> 
> humm, often people try to make something out of them that they are not.
> 
> ...




...well, sure, that's the point. Black AND white. (red and yellow)


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## tyler.durden (Oct 18, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Dude, they will always make fun of god, the bible, and Jesus....
> Just don't let it get to you, it's not your responsibility to make sure they follow god, it's your responsibility to follow what you believe .
> 
> If you want to get back at them, make a thread showing historic evidence that shows many of the things written in the bible held truth. Or just point out flaws in different discoveries in science... or just don't care. If you truly believe in god, you will know that they will have to deal with him, not in a bad way, but I'm pretty sure it would be awkward for them to meet god.


Awkward like this?

[video=youtube;6gnQz32c5EA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnQz32c5EA[/video]


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## Harrekin (Oct 18, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> After reading some of the posts on the entire thread, I got to thinking of something. What about the Illuminatti and the New World Order? Does anybody believe in that? Does anybody believe that Uncle Sam wrinkly balls is gonna implant chips into people so small that it could be injected from an ordinary "flu" shot? Microtechnology has come a long way, and now a microtransmitter can be pretty damn small that you would need a microscope to see all of it. Does anyone here at all know, that the USA government has been working since the cold war on Pyschotronic technology, originally started by the Russians? Yes, that's right people. All the day while those that think about what Buddah to worship or what Dogma to practice, the government is preparing to shaft EVERYONE on a global level, in some more years (and now!). It is increasing today, look up pyschotronics and stop wasting time saying there is no salvation. Because, once you are under the control of the new world order, you may be lucky if you can even remember what Jesus Christ is, if not already too busy following the sodomite new world order agenda. Fucking crazy ? How about you put some evidence in your pipes and smoke it. I'm not going to bother, but you can just crack open a google and look up PSYCHOTRONICS. It's real. Much more real than witches and Durpa and Shiva and ghosts and aliens. Have fun


Seriously? 

That's such a tinfoil hat theory, bat-shit crazy stuff. 

So tell me, what exactly is the powersource for these microtransmitters?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 18, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> Awkward like this?
> 
> [video=youtube;6gnQz32c5EA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnQz32c5EA[/video]




...glad I've been introduced to this! Fkn funny man.


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## Harrekin (Oct 18, 2011)

Oh and here's psychotronic: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotronic

Some crazy fuckers on this forum, the weed must make them paranoid or something.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 18, 2011)

so bat shit crazy stuff is just your opinion or you are stating a fact? back it up buddy, no pics to show that it doesn't exist or I call bullshit on your claim. Meanwhile, back in the land of rational people, I am going to post a post by Dr Barry Taff.

Back in the mid-1980&#8242;s there was a fascinating book written by Ronald M. McRae entitled _Mind War_, (St. Martins Press, N.Y., 1984) which discussed and chronicled the alleged development of psychotronic weapons, that is, weapons that use electronics to access and utilize paranormal forces to attack ones enemies. If anything within this book is real, then warfare as we currently know it may soon become obsolete. Given that this book is now almost thirty years old and no such advanced psychotronics weapons have been deployed (as far as we know), strongly suggests that the validity of such claims are more science fiction or fantasy than reality.
However, the incredible nature of these potential miraculous weapons need to be known, therefore, I feel obligated to discuss them here. First up is a Psychic Neuron Disruptor (and no, its not Klingon!), a sort of electronic paranoia inducer that interferes with the synaptic connections of our brains nerve cells to induce temporary states of confusion, disorientation, memory impairment, loss of concentration and severe paranoia utilizing a combination of ultra-low-frequency (ULF) and radio-frequency (RF) radiation. This device might be similar to what was once known as Oregon Woodpecker signals that had similar effects from an undetermined, but theorized Soviet source.
Next up is the list is a device called Lida-4&#8243; (Soviet in design) that could more accurately be referred to as radio sleep, which can put large groups or populations of individuals to sleep at-a-distance _without_ their consent through the controlled application of ULF & RF radiation. Dont we already have this? I think its called television, specifically paranormal reality shows or political debates?
Next up is the Multispectral Image Analyzer, a device which denudes or cures weapons of their potency from a distance, especially nuclear weapon systems. Interestingly, in the real world this might be referred to as lack of funding. However, if this system is even partially real, then were wasting billions of dollars on maintaining our nuclear stockpiles.
Youre going to love this next one; Photonic Barrier Modulator, which is basically an electronic amplifier and focusing device for psychotronic forces. By inserting a photograph of the desired target (object or person), the target can be disabled or destroyed at-a-distance. Allegedly, this device would be excellent for transmitting illnesses and/or death via biological disorders of new varieties. This particular weapon sounds very similar to the way radionics was supposed to work many years ago. If this device exists, why do we need any form of conventional weapons whatsoever?
The next device is a real mouthful both literally and figuratively. Its a Hyperspace Nuclear Howitzer in which a thermonuclear detonation is triggered within a specially controlled environment which then transmits all of its effects (light, thermal pulse, blast, EMP and radiation) to an unlimited number of distant sites without warning, once its receivers have been previously planted at these locations. With this type of weapon, no missile, rocket or aircraft delivery system is required. Well, if this is true, then the entire world should immediately scrap its nuclear arsenals as their obsolete and worthless.
The second to the last device is known as SADDOR, short for a SAtellite Deployed DOwsing Rod that could make all the mobile and submarine launched ICBMs obsolete even before their deployed. A really gifted psychic from any country (although presumably from the old Soviet Union) would be telepathically linked to SADDOR and could then pinpoint the exact location of any weapon system or person anywhere on earth. Given the problems weve had in the middle east finding and catching almost anyone, this is sure bet _not _to exist.
Ive saved the best for the last as its so way over the top. Its the Anti-Missile Time Warp, which is the ultimate anti-ballistic missile system, wherein fields of energy are transmitted up from the earth to intercept ICBM MIRVs in their mid-course busing or terminal course phase and literally send them backwards in time to say the Jurassic period where they would explode harmlessly, except of course for the dinosaurs. Yeah right?
Hey, maybe this is what really killed off the dinosaurs as opposed to a meteoric major impact in the Yucatan peninsula some 65 million years ago? Dont bet on it. My god, who actually thinks this stuff up? Wheres Gene Roddenberry when we need him? Pushing up daisies with the dinosaurs, unfortunately. After reading all this, youre probably scratching your head going Come on, get real, which was exactly the reaction I had when first reading this book back in 1984.
The author had pretty impressive credentials, so I was and am curious as to his sources at the time. Needless to say, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any of these weapons were successfully developed and deployed. But it does give one reason to think that such incredible, science-fiction oriented devices were even conceived of. Actually, Id be far more concerned by the HAARP system up in Alaska, as such could theoretically be a precursor to such psychtronics weapons.



Harrekin said:


> Seriously?
> 
> 
> That's such a tinfoil hat theory, bat-shit crazy stuff.
> ...


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 18, 2011)

very original , looking that up on wikipedia. that is so fail, your teacher would be ashamed


Harrekin said:


> Oh and here's psychotronic: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotronic
> 
> Some crazy fuckers on this forum, the weed must make them paranoid or something.


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## Harrekin (Oct 19, 2011)

It's only fail if it's inaccurate you gobshite 

Was the first Google hit tbh,and what powers these supposed microtransmitters? And does your tinfoil hat block it?

You're so full of shit man,go back to your bunker and pray some more.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> Awkward like this?
> 
> [video=youtube;6gnQz32c5EA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnQz32c5EA[/video]


Oh I was gonna say I feel stupid for not getting it when you said "awkward like this", but then when I quoted you I saw the YouTube link and was like Ohh now it makes sense lol.... I still can't see the movie though, what is it? Is it that little atheist stick guy who meets god?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

sso said:


> *i had no trouble at all and what rant? we are having a conversation
> 
> love, is the deepest and strongest part of you, it awakens with your heart.
> 
> ...


without Jesus? Well yeah I'm sure I could still be a good person...

Do you hurt girls?
Nope not at all, and I only do certain things with girls that at the moment I think I love her....
Do you rape girls?
Lol no way...
How are drugs bad?
Exactly what I mean by how I'm a hypocrite, I don't think they're bad but the book where I get most of my beliefs from says they're bad...
Everyday sins?
Stuff like lying, being mad, cussing, or checking out a girl..

BBQ people?
Nope I do not believe god bbqs people...
Therefore your existence shall be ended?
God says my existence will be ended, so yes...

So I'm just a clay puppet?
I can't tell you that because I don't know what happens when we die..
I believe that you won't spend eternity I a grave because your existence we be annihilated...

"Feel free to come by my heaven"
Sure thing dude, if your heaven is right then I would be honored to be invited, .


I don't know god so I can't tell you whether he is the most kindest forgiving being ever, I can only take people's word for it...

Dude common, I would love for you to not call it crap, lol. I mean it's someone's beliefs they hold dear to them, and even if those weren't my beliefs I would still not call them crap...

I love your view of love, haha....
And yeah people that believe in the trinity believe that the holy ghost is your loving emotion.... 

The devil is not hate... He has his own story lol...

Again I don't know anything, all I can do is trust that if there is a god that he will do the right thing.... 

If I sounded like a dick at all, that was not my intention, happy toking....


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

Pyschotronics works on frecuencies that are identical to what the brain utilizes everyday. What is your profession? Office drone? Management Drone? I doubt you have any background in technology engineering. you strike me as a hateful little prick that tells people to go fuck themselves on the day to day based on what they have researched and you haven't. I am not a group of people, unlike yourself as high leader of the jackass regime. I am an individual, not afraid to make opinions BY MYSELF, instead of jumping on the tin foil hat bandwagon. You are a cookie cutter slave and any government would be happpy to have millions just like you. Yes, I believe in Covert Planning. I'm sure you believe that raghead terrorists from the poorest countries flew AMERICAN airliners into 2 trade center towers in NYC and the US Government has shit for brains to avoid it in the first place. The only belief you have shared with us is your hateful, self-centered view point of denial. As if you were the professor! HAHAHA joke. Nothing new either. So what is this thread about, trolling? Hey, let's debate if Smurfs exist so Harrekin can shit out an opinion that everyone would agree on and like! This is a big boy topic, so you can GTFO with your toddler mindset and your hate against what really is possible. I am not talking about aliens, or demons or spirits, I am talking about a real threat. Read the bible much? no I wouldn't count on it. Everybody knows that the New World Order is coming except you. You are the moron sir, for believing that the technology CANNOT exist, You never even bothered to prove that it doesn't. 


Harrekin said:


> It's only fail if it's inaccurate you gobshite
> 
> Was the first Google hit tbh,and what powers these supposed microtransmitters? And does your tinfoil hat block it?
> 
> You're so full of shit man,go back to your bunker and pray some more.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

Chronic obsession,
What do we do about the illuminati?


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

harrekin, do you know what powers a radio transmitter? what powers a radio receiver? DERRRRRR perhaps it is powered from fossilized angel feces. Pyschotronics is about transmission of interference to the brain. Do you need me to get out the crayons and scan an explanation of the similarities a brain has with a radio receiver? Brains ARE programmable, how do you think homosexuality came about? People are born that way? haahahaha, maybe you need a safety helmet instead of a tinhat, silly man


Harrekin said:


> It's only fail if it's inaccurate you gobshite
> 
> Was the first Google hit tbh,and what powers these supposed microtransmitters? And does your tinfoil hat block it?
> 
> You're so full of shit man,go back to your bunker and pray some more.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 19, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Chronic obsession,
> What do we do about the illuminati?




..........



...kidding man


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

The only tool against the corruptive force that we have come to call by many names including the Illuminati is acknowledging that they exist and recognizing the tactics they use to round up mankind into a corral that leads to the slaughter house. I for example have moved away from my beloved 1st world home where I was born and now I live in South America. Trust me, living with the native indians is much easier than living around freaks that want to blow up their school or their office buildings. Plus,, marijuana is so fucking cheap outside fo the european union and United states, it's a big laugh! QPs of middies for 40 dollars, all buds smelling nice. Americans should demand to their government to reduce the prices of cannabis, as one of the things on a big list of demands!


Hepheastus420 said:


> Chronic obsession,
> What do we do about the illuminati?


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

Knowing about the "hidden enemy" before he shows his face is all we can do. They control economics and politics on a huge level that our savings accounts combined could not even reach 1 percent of their massive capital. Money is king, when it falls into the wrong hands, any kind of deprave thing can and WILL go down. Keep your eyes open and avoid the Illuminatti and their slaves like the plague!


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Knowing about the "hidden enemy" before he shows his face is all we can do. They control economics and politics on a huge level that are savings accounts combined could not even reach 1 percent of their massive capital. Money is king, when it falls into the wrong hands, any kind of deprave thing can and WILL go down. Keep your eyes open and avoid the Illuminatti and their slaves like the plague!


If we show their face, won't he just kill us faster? What do we do to stop them? If we show them it won't matter, nothing will change. All that will happen is that they won't be so discretion about what they do... They'll just admit to being a group of dictators...


We news some weapons....


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

that's why I believe in the mercy of Jesus Christ, who is the son of the Creator and also God at the same time. Funny how this escapes "common sense" that so many make poo-poo on it and continue their shallow lives crawling on their bellies when the shit hits the fan. We are not alone. The NWO is/has/and will continue persecuting millions of people until the stink of a new mountain of human carcasses reaches unto the heavens. If there is any magic, the magical thing is that everytime a new generation is born, they automatically pretend that the terrible shit that humanity just passed, like WW2 and all the little side histories packed inside, never happened. There are even people still claiming today that the Holocaust of the Jews never happened.


Hepheastus420 said:


> If we show their face, won't he just kill us faster? What do we do to stop them? If we show them it won't matter, nothing will change. All that will happen is that they won't be so discretion about what they do... They'll just admit to being a group of dictators...
> 
> 
> We news some weapons....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> that's why I believe in the mercy of Jesus Christ, who is the son of the Creator and also God at the same time. Funny how this escapes "common sense" that so many make poo-poo on it and continue their shallow lives crawling on their bellies when the shit hits the fan. We are not alone. The NWO is/has/and will continue persecuting millions of people until the stink of a new mountain of human carcasses reaches unto the heavens. If there is any magic, the magical thing is that everytime a new generation is born, they automatically pretend that the terrible shit that humanity just passed, like WW2 and all the little side histories packed inside, never happened. There are even people still claiming today that the Holocaust of the Jews never happened.


So why worry about it if Jesus is gonna take care of it for us and we can't do anything?


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

Jesus Christ came to the earth. There is a plan for Humanity that is not evil. The followers of the beast system will bring themselves to destruction before Christ comes back, the 2nd coming. All of Man's kingdoms will collapse for a new kingdom of christ on earth to take place. But that does not happen before we go through the tribulation that is here right now and ramping it up!


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

I feel that during my spare time, it is a noble cause to get into the people's faces that are in denial. It is a wake up call, and there are only a few left before the big sleep


Hepheastus420 said:


> So why worry about it if Jesus is gonna take care of it for us and we can't do anything?


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Jesus Christ came to the earth. There is a plan for Humanity that is not evil. The followers of the beast system will bring themselves to destruction before Christ comes back, the 2nd coming. All of Man's kingdoms will collapse for a new kingdom of christ on earth to take place. But that does not happen before we go through the tribulation that is here right now and ramping it up!


So what exactly do we do? Nothing right?
I mean Jesus is gonna stop them and we are useless so we shouldn't do anymore than a rabbit does. All we have to do is live life and love each other....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> I feel that during my spare time, it is a noble cause to get into the people's faces that are in denial. It is a wake up call, and there are only a few left before the big sleep


Ok so they don't see how we might possibly be run by a dictatorship, but een if they did see, what would that matter?


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

Yea you got it. now we need to convince the rest of the rabbits to do the same. I don't have any plan to attack the illuminatti, just calling them out of their closets


Hepheastus420 said:


> So what exactly do we do? Nothing right?
> I mean Jesus is gonna stop them and we are useless so we shouldn't do anymore than a rabbit does. All we have to do is live life and love each other....


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

As a believer in God, I believe that he gives any and every human some signs throught life. If they are lucky, they will rationalize that divine intervention had taken place, rather than UFOs or Scientistis did it. So if people don't listen to us about the NWO, it's kinda just like making a theater for the audience. Some people get it, some don't. But regardless, we run the most popular show in the world! Bringing the good news


Hepheastus420 said:


> Ok so they don't see how we might possibly be run by a dictatorship, but een if they did see, what would that matter?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> As a believer in God, I believe that he gives any and every human some signs throught life. If they are lucky, they will rationalize that divine intervention had taken place, rather than UFOs or Scientistis did it. So if people don't listen to us about the NWO, it's kinda just like making a theater for the audience. Some people get it, some don't. But regardless, we run the most popular show in the world! Bringing the good news


So we run a show huh? Bringing what good news? That Jesus will come and stop them? 
Well what does it matter if some people watch the show and others don't? Either way what's gonna happen is gonna happen.... It's just that some people choose to worry about something they can't change and others don't worry about something they can't change.
Now if you have a way to change what's gonna happen, then by all means I have your back and I will do whatever it takes to change the outcome or in this situation the illuminati....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

What I'm saying is blind or not whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen....


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## Heisenberg (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> harrekin, do you know what powers a radio transmitter? what powers a radio receiver? DERRRRRR perhaps it is powered from fossilized angel feces. Pyschotronics is about transmission of interference to the brain. Do you need me to get out the crayons and scan an explanation of the similarities a brain has with a radio receiver? Brains ARE programmable, how do you think homosexuality came about? People are born that way? haahahaha, maybe you need a safety helmet instead of a tinhat, silly man





ChronicObsession said:


> The only tool against the corruptive force that we have come to call by many names including the Illuminati is acknowledging that they exist and recognizing the tactics they use to round up mankind into a corral that leads to the slaughter house. I for example have moved away from my beloved 1st world home where I was born and now I live in South America. Trust me, living with the native indians is much easier than living around freaks that want to blow up their school or their office buildings. Plus,, marijuana is so fucking cheap outside fo the european union and United states, it's a big laugh! QPs of middies for 40 dollars, all buds smelling nice. Americans should demand to their government to reduce the prices of cannabis, as one of the things on a big list of demands!





ChronicObsession said:


> Knowing about the "hidden enemy" before he shows his face is all we can do. They control economics and politics on a huge level that our savings accounts combined could not even reach 1 percent of their massive capital. Money is king, when it falls into the wrong hands, any kind of deprave thing can and WILL go down. Keep your eyes open and avoid the Illuminatti and their slaves like the plague!





ChronicObsession said:


> that's why I believe in the mercy of Jesus Christ, who is the son of the Creator and also God at the same time. Funny how this escapes "common sense" that so many make poo-poo on it and continue their shallow lives crawling on their bellies when the shit hits the fan. We are not alone. The NWO is/has/and will continue persecuting millions of people until the stink of a new mountain of human carcasses reaches unto the heavens. If there is any magic, the magical thing is that everytime a new generation is born, they automatically pretend that the terrible shit that humanity just passed, like WW2 and all the little side histories packed inside, never happened. There are even people still claiming today that the Holocaust of the Jews never happened.





ChronicObsession said:


> Jesus Christ came to the earth. There is a plan for Humanity that is not evil. The followers of the beast system will bring themselves to destruction before Christ comes back, the 2nd coming. All of Man's kingdoms will collapse for a new kingdom of christ on earth to take place. But that does not happen before we go through the tribulation that is here right now and ramping it up!





ChronicObsession said:


> I feel that during my spare time, it is a noble cause to get into the people's faces that are in denial. It is a wake up call, and there are only a few left before the big sleep


So much talk and yet not one speck of credible substance, or frankly anything to indicate that you are not just suffering from diarrhea of the brain. 


That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. 
&#8213; Christopher Hitchens


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## mindphuk (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Pyschotronics works on frecuencies that are identical to what the brain utilizes everyday. What is your profession? Office drone? Management Drone? I doubt you have any background in technology engineering. you strike me as a hateful little prick that tells people to go fuck themselves on the day to day based on what they have researched and you haven't. I am not a group of people, unlike yourself as high leader of the jackass regime. I am an individual, not afraid to make opinions BY MYSELF, instead of jumping on the tin foil hat bandwagon. You are a cookie cutter slave and any government would be happpy to have millions just like you. Yes, I believe in Covert Planning. I'm sure you believe that raghead terrorists from the poorest countries flew AMERICAN airliners into 2 trade center towers in NYC and the US Government has shit for brains to avoid it in the first place. The only belief you have shared with us is your hateful, self-centered view point of denial. As if you were the professor! HAHAHA joke. Nothing new either. So what is this thread about, trolling? Hey, let's debate if Smurfs exist so Harrekin can shit out an opinion that everyone would agree on and like! This is a big boy topic, so you can GTFO with your toddler mindset and your hate against what really is possible. I am not talking about aliens, or demons or spirits, I am talking about a real threat. Read the bible much? no I wouldn't count on it. Everybody knows that the New World Order is coming except you. You are the moron sir, for believing that the technology CANNOT exist, You never even bothered to prove that it doesn't.


I thought Jeebus followers are supposed to be tolerant and love their fellow man? Instead you spout hate and vitriol with every post, not to mention ignorance. You're the one coming off as hateful, not harrekin. Even your supposed 'facts' are wrong. Since when is Saudi Arabia a poor country? How about if you for once provide some evidence to back up the shit you say rather than the illogical request for someone to prove the non-existence of a thing? So not only are you hateful but pretty fucking stupid too.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

heisenburg and mindphuck.... I haven't heard anything about what you fuckers believe in, other than what you think you know about some other individual on the internet. Bravo, Bravo! Everyone needs to see what you guys really look like so they can bow down to a pair of leaders that will take humanity to greatness!


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## Heisenberg (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> heisenburg and mindphuck.... I haven't heard anything about what you fuckers believe in, other than what you think you know about some other individual on the internet. Bravo, Bravo! Everyone needs to see what you guys really look like so they can bow down to a pair of leaders that will take humanity to greatness!


Translation: I have nothing credible to say so instead I will attempt to appear clever with an ad hominem attack, because in my world the biggest asshole wins.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

Appearing clever as you put it, is just something I do every 5 or seconds of my life. The Ad Hominem part which you disguise as a way to make me look like the douche is not clever, but a natural defense that anyone can demonstrate


Heisenberg said:


> Translation: I have nothing credible to say so instead I will attempt to appear clever with an ad hominem attack, because in my world the biggest asshole wins.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Appearing clever as you put it, is just something I do every 5 or seconds of my life.


I'm guessing you spend the other 4 seconds trying to shove your head further up your ass.



> The Ad Hominem part which you so cleverly disguise as a way to make me look like the douche is not clever, but a natural defense that anyone can demonstrate


Your douchebaggery is apparent without needing any help from me. You purported some outrageous claims which raise some serious issues without providing any substance or justification. You stated them in such a way as to suggest anyone who doesn't see these things is a fool. The nature of your claims beg for questions and validity; it is only natural for someone to ask for proof or plausibility, yet when someone does you treat them like they are the dumb kid in the corner eating glue. You say a bunch of frenzied alarmist conspiracy bullshit and then personally attack anyone asking for rationale. The things you say do not stand on their own merit. The only way you can look better is to put other people down. Behavior such as that will get you the douchebag of the year award every time.


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## mindphuk (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> heisenburg and mindphuck.... I haven't heard anything about what you fuckers believe in, other than what you think you know about some other individual on the internet. Bravo, Bravo! Everyone needs to see what you guys really look like so they can bow down to a pair of leaders that will take humanity to greatness!


Then maybe you should go back and read some of our posts rather than act like a prick and make assumptions. I've been here 'splaining my beliefs for the last few years. I guess you're just too fucking dumb to be able to figure it out. But I don't expect much from someone that believes in the magic sky wizard.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

Do you hate Quantum Theory as much as you hate Jesus Christ and the Creator?
Do you watch TV?
Do you role-play with your wife? (assuming you have one is foolish but useful in this post)
What is it like to live in a stagnant, clinical world where nothing exists but life, death, homosexuality, poverty, bigotry, addictions, violence and war?
Wow, you compare those that believe in God, Jesus Christ, who isn't some blue man or elephant god, to mental case people? I think you sir, are the originator of ad hominem here. Using latin doesn't make you appear smart, either.


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## Harrekin (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> harrekin, do you know what powers a radio transmitter? what powers a radio receiver? DERRRRRR perhaps it is powered from fossilized angel feces. Pyschotronics is about transmission of interference to the brain. Do you need me to get out the crayons and scan an explanation of the similarities a brain has with a radio receiver? Brains ARE programmable, how do you think homosexuality came about? People are born that way? haahahaha, maybe you need a safety helmet instead of a tinhat, silly man


 So you think the Government makes people gay with "mind weapons" and you call me stupid?!


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

Mind flush and the man in the funny black hat will never rest. But I can go have lunch. Do you guys need evidence of this, or may you suppose that I am too poor to enjoy a midday meal.... to be continued


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

Hahaha, so, do you even know how to read? There was a period and a new sentence started. People are programmed from watching other dumbasses, too.


Harrekin said:


> So you think the Government makes people gay with "mind weapons" and you call me stupid?!


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

disney network is teaching 12 year old girls how to dress and act like little whores. Does Disney even exist? Oh shit I'm not in Kissimee Florida, how can I prove this to you guys?????? Even TV may not be real, as I don't have one in my house. Downloading of movies probably doesn't exist either.


Harrekin said:


> So you think the Government makes people gay with "mind weapons" and you call me stupid?!


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## Heisenberg (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Do you hate Quantum Theory as much as you hate Jesus Christ and the Creator?


Petitio principii; why would I hate either?



> Do you watch TV?


 


> Do you role-play with your wife? (assuming you have one is foolish but useful in this post)


 


> What is it like to live in a stagnant, clinical world where nothing exists but life, death, homosexuality, poverty, bigotry, addictions, violence and war?


Reductio ad absurdum; my attitude is called sanity, not cynicism.




> Wow, you compare those that believe in God, Jesus Christ, who isn't some blue man or elephant god, to mental case people? I think you sir, are the originator of ad hominem here. Using latin doesn't make you appear smart, either.


How about you offer some plausibility for the quixotic things you said and bring them out of the world of fantasy before you start worrying about who appears to be smart. Latin is used for accuracy not pretense. 

ne supra crepidam sutor iudicaret


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

bringing stuff out of the world of fantasy is Dang3rous!!!!!1 and besides, who should be so bold to take you away from the thing you find most important in your life, your distinguished level of intelligence? carry on, but winning on the internet is just proving how good of a contender you really could be in the special olympics, highsinburgh









Heisenberg said:


> Petitio principii; why would I hate either?
> How about you offer some plausibility for the quixotic things you said and bring them out of the world of fantasy before you start worrying about who appears to be smart


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## Heisenberg (Oct 19, 2011)

Yes, those grapes are probably sour anyway...


Asking you to back up your outrageous accusations is not me demonstrating intellectual superiority. It is simply a request for you to demonstrate your intellectual merit for this message you feel righteous in spreading to others. I am simply asking for something that distinguishes you from a homeless mental case standing in the park with a sign that says 'the end is near'. So far, your only response is insults and deflection. If the crackhead in the park was speaking Latin it wouldn't make him any less of a derelict. You can use a computer and post pics, I am not impressed. Label your fantasy for what it is, back it up with rationale, or sit down and shut up. Otherwise you can fully expect people to call you out.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> bringing stuff out of the world of fantasy is Dang3rous!!!!!1 and besides, who should be so bold to take you away from the thing you find most important in your life, your distinguished level of intelligence? carry on, but winning on the internet is just proving how good of a contender you really could be in the special olympics, highsinburgh


i find it astonishing that you claim that your beliefs are the most important thing in your life yet you dont care enough to really think about wether your beliefs are real and if your god really exists .


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

yea, because I wrote the bible myself and I received the commandments on the mount and I died on the cross for people like Heisenburg, yea buddy, you are asking for too much don't you think? Believe in Santa Clause much? Maybe if I preached that I am a monkey that time traveled from the year 96,000,500 B.C. I might get a little more respect. Oh no that's not possible because I'm Ad Homineming everyone ... hahahaha! I laugh because this challenge to provide REAL EVIDENCE is just child's play, man. I guess the Internet is one big book written by guys in PH.Ds for you to scrutinize. ROFL


Heisenberg said:


> Yes, those grapes are probably sour anyway...
> Otherwise you can fully expect people to call you out.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

try asking a hamster what it believes, you might relate a little more to him than myself


ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i find it astonishing that you claim that your beliefs are the most important thing in your life yet you dont care enough to really think about wether your beliefs are real and if your god really exists .


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## Harrekin (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> Do you hate Quantum Theory as much as you hate Jesus Christ and the Creator?
> Do you watch TV?
> Do you role-play with your wife? (assuming you have one is foolish but useful in this post)
> What is it like to live in a stagnant, clinical world where nothing exists but life, death, homosexuality, poverty, bigotry, addictions, violence and war?
> Wow, you compare those that believe in God, Jesus Christ, who isn't some blue man or elephant god, to mental case people? I think you sir, are the originator of ad hominem here. Using latin doesn't make you appear smart, either.


You're a joke dude, you complain and speak negatively about homosexuals and then in the same sentence complain about bigotry in the world?! 

*facepalm*


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## olylifter420 (Oct 19, 2011)

> i find it astonishing that you claim that your beliefs are the most important thing in your life


i cant believe that you are still here running you stupid hate diatribe bullshit! 



> yet you dont care enough to really think about wether your beliefs are real


what the fuck is it to you shitface what others believe? do they pay your bills? Did your whore of a mum not teach you to respect others? probably not asshole, i just wish you were close by so we could meet, im pretty tired of your bullshit 



tell me how planets are made? please do so... you should know if you are such a piece of shit atheist


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

homosexuals are not people, you idiot! *facepalm* A lifestyle is distinguishable from the humanbody that adopts such trivial, unhealthy and idiotic things. Nice try.


Harrekin said:


> You're a joke dude, you complain and speak negatively about homosexuals and then in the same sentence complain about bigotry in the world?!
> 
> *facepalm*


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## olylifter420 (Oct 19, 2011)

> So you think the Government makes people gay with "mind weapons"


straw man

the government claims being "gay" can be linked to our genetic make up... just as obesity, diabetes, hypertension etc...


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## Harrekin (Oct 19, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> homosexuals are not people, you idiot! *facepalm* A lifestyle is distinguishable from the humanbody that adopts such trivial, unhealthy and idiotic things. Nice try.


You're honestly one of the dumbest people Iv ever spoken to, and Iv spoken to quite a few "special needs" people before.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 19, 2011)

yes, im pretty sure you speak to yourself and family everyday




Harrekin said:


> You're honestly one of the dumbest people Iv ever spoken to, and Iv spoken to quite a few "special needs" people before.


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## Harrekin (Oct 19, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> i cant believe that you are still here running you stupid hate diatribe bullshit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gravity condensing clouds of dust? It's pretty simple, there's evidence of it between Mars and Jupiter. 

The way you speak makes you the most un-Christ like Christian ever, it's pretty ironic.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

straw men support the gay agenda all day, every day. It's called lust, you weirdos! Noone is born a murderer with violent tendencies more often than a little boy wants to grow up with seamen on his poopdeck. And lusting for hairy buttcrack when pussy doesn't want to be your friend is just disgusting. At risk of interrupting Harrekin's rampage of anti-antigay attacks, I will show you his brainchild of what a perfect young man is.... HAHA!


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 19, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> The way you speak makes you the most un-Christ like Christian ever, it's pretty ironic.


 Dude, you wouldn't know what it's like being a real christian, you don't even have any christian friends. If you think we are a bunch of pussies that let drones like you tell us what does and doesn't exist, you are wrong.


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## resinousflowers (Oct 19, 2011)

i believe we have a energy in us that never dies.whether this is our soul that goes to heaven or hell i dont know.
but that energy is real.its the reason why we can sense ppl in the same room as us even when we cant see hear or smell them.
its also the reason why we can sense something bads going to happen.we can sense negative and positive energy,so we are more than just flesh and blood,theres more to us than that.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 19, 2011)

resinousflowers said:


> i believe we have a energy in us that never dies.whether this is our soul that goes to heaven or hell i dont know.
> but that energy is real.its the reason why we can sense ppl in the same room as us even when we cant see hear or smell them.
> its also the reason why we can sense something bads going to happen.we can sense negative and positive energy,so we are more than just flesh and blood,theres more to us than that.


*likes it*


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## olylifter420 (Oct 19, 2011)

straw man again brother, i never claimed to be "christ like."

No, that is not the way planets are made brother.

They found out while exploring Jupiter that all the theories on how planets were made are obsolete. THe way Jupiter was made has scientists baffled about how planet earth was made as well. 





Harrekin said:


> Gravity condensing clouds of dust? It's pretty simple, there's evidence of it between Mars and Jupiter.
> 
> The way you speak makes you the most un-Christ like Christian ever, it's pretty ironic.


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## Harrekin (Oct 19, 2011)

Jupiter is completely unlike Earth, it's a gas giant...Earth incase you didn't notice is not...they've also never explored anything beyond the Moon, except Mars with a remote controlled robot. 

I said you are the most un-Christ like Christian because as a Christian youre supposed to try be like Christ, otherwise youre just another fool claiming to be something you're not...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 19, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Jupiter is completely unlike Earth, it's a gas giant...Earth incase you didn't notice is not...they've also never explored anything beyond the Moon, except Mars with a remote controlled robot.
> 
> I said you are the most un-Christ like Christian because as a Christian youre supposed to try be like Christ, otherwise youre just another fool claiming to be something you're not...




H, a side note on Jupiter that I really like.

This cross with its four sides reminds us of the 4 physical elements and their 4 Tattvas; the 4 chemical elements; the 4 elements and colours of Alchemy; the 4 Solar Bodies; the 4 Paths and the 4 Tests; the four stages of the life of the human being; the 4 seasons of Nature and of the Races; the 4 types of temperament; the 4 Entrances of the Inner Palace; the 4 winds or cardinal and esoteric points; the 4 protectors of the race and Tetrasustainers of the Universe; the 4 animals of alchemy and of the Solar Gospel etc.


All these &#8220;four&#8221; are nothing but the representation of energies, forces or entelechies, which the human being must develop them or transcend them in order to achieve, within oneself, the mystery of the Saint TETRAGRAMMATON(God&#8217;s name in four letters) and which is written like this:IOD HE VAU HE.

These four words take us to the Ninth Sphere, to the famous Ignited Furnace of Vulcan, in which we must rise the Igneous Serpent of our Magical Powers; this latter is represented in the Jupiterian sign by the line that rises like a ray of light that unites us with the infinite.

The Cross is the sublime monogram of the Logos, of the Jupiter-Zeus, of Christ,our Lord; He is the Astral Light, the Christonic Power closed within ourselves and which awakes only through &#8220;The Cross&#8221;, through the Amorous Magic and which the Aztecs called Quetzalcoatl.

The metal of Jupiter-Zeus is the tin and it indicates us ductility, expansion, is the Creation within itself, as above, so below, that is why He is the Verb.

...a side of 'christianity' rarely seen. 

**nb: magical powers are procreative powers - not card tricks. "serpents" - "tadpoles"


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## olylifter420 (Oct 19, 2011)

> they've also never explored anything beyond the Moon


yeah, and im barack obama... dude, you call others stupid and ignorant when you do not know anything about the solar system and claim that you do... 

"In December 1995, NASA's Galileo spacecraft dropped a probe into Jupiter's atmosphere, which collected the first direct measurements of the atmosphere." 

"CONFLICTING THEORIES
Two theories have long conflicted: One, he noted, suggests that part of a vast whirling cloud of dust and gas called the solar nebula condensed billions of years ago to form the sun and the giant gas planets like Jupiter and Saturn.

The other theory, however, holds that Jupiter originally was nothing but the rocky core that still remains in its deepest heart, and that its exterior accreted over the eons by a constant rain of "icy planetesimals" -- frozen objects like tiny comets -- spawned far out in the Milky Way galaxy.

The probe's findings, after every tiny detail has been analyzed and all the scientific debates are in, "may help us to decide which of the two concepts is correct," Owens said. Or, as all the Galileo scientists know well, the findings may suggest another and wholly unanticipated theory.

The relative scarcity of helium posed another mystery, said Ulf von Zahn of the University of Bonn in Germany. In the sun, where hydrogen and helium together constitute 99 percent of the solar matter, helium alone is about 26 percent of that total. But on Jupiter, von Zahn said, the proportion of helium to hydrogen that the probe found is only half that. Perhaps, he said, the helium has migrated inward toward the planet's rocky core.

But if more detailed analysis of the probe's results shows that the the ratio of helium to hydrogen on Jupiter is in fact far different from the sun's, then theories of the solar nebula's role in the planet's formation will surely demand much more thought, von Zahn said.

In any case, the scientists all agreed, these first findings from the Galileo probe will lead to new ideas not only about Jupiter's formation, but about the origins of planet Earth as well."




> Jupiter is completely unlike Earth, it's a gas giant...Earth incase you didn't notice is not.


really? man, i think you are the smartest person i have ever met... i also thought the earth was flat!!!!


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## Harrekin (Oct 19, 2011)

You realise helium has roughly double the atomic mass of hydrogen? So yeah, it would've sank with gravity...also that probe barely made it through the uppermost layers of the atmosphere before tidal forces destroyed it, so anything else is speculation.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 19, 2011)

> so anything else is speculation.


thank you, if you base your beliefs on speculations, that makes you no different then believers...



> You realise helium has roughly double the atomic mass of hydrogen?


you do realize that the way you spell realize is with a "z" instead of an "s"... and no, im waiting on the chemistry lecture sir! LOL


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## Harrekin (Oct 19, 2011)

It's educated speculation,not baseless like you Bible Bashers... and for the record, only Americans bastardise the English language to put "z" in everything in place of "s".


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## olylifter420 (Oct 19, 2011)

too fucking bad bro, go back to where you came from if you aint going to follow the AMerican way...

educated speculation? really!!! Now how do you gain "education"? schooling yes, but that will only take you so far, personal experience is what counts the most when making these speculations. 

just because you have not experienced what believers have experienced does not make them ignorant or stupid or a mental health case like you say..






Harrekin said:


> It's educated speculation,not baseless like you Bible Bashers... and for the record, only Americans bastardise the English language to put "z" in everything in place of "s".


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 19, 2011)

This whole page is bahumbug!!!!


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## Harrekin (Oct 19, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> too fucking bad bro, go back to where you came from if you aint going to follow the AMerican way...
> 
> educated speculation? really!!! Now how do you gain "education"? schooling yes, but that will only take you so far, personal experience is what counts the most when making these speculations.
> 
> just because you have not experienced what believers have experienced does not make them ignorant or stupid or a mental health case like you say..


Dude I'm pretty sure I don't need to "go back to where I came from"...I'm sitting here right now  Don't start being patriotic about your education system, multiple choice exams? Get the fuck out man. 

As for "educated speculation", I was more getting to the point that scientists speculate about the inside of the gas giants because they have been educated in Astrophysics and as such can fairly reliably predict the conditions inside by their understanding of physics and chemistry, as it tends to behave the same regardless of where it is. In this scenario life experience has nothing to do with it and adds nothing. 

Why are you even getting involved you angry little man? I was questioning Chronic Obsessions bat shit crazy conspiracy theories, not his religious beliefs. If youd been keeping up, I already told Hep that it's cool he believes what he wants to, cos he thinks about it, questions it and comes up with his own thought out conclusions and (vitally) doesn't try force his personal beliefs on anyone. 

So no need to be a *constant* dick man.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 19, 2011)

no brother, i aint a dick, i treat and respond to others in the way they respond or treat me... check other threads that i post on and i aint a dick... making those conclusions are absurd.

you can remake a gaseous planet by making a soap and water bubble over a hot plate... you can clearly see how these gases collide with each other and cause the swirling winds. 

you make a claim that we have not explored any further from the moon and i called you on it... if you call that being a dick, i wonder what you have called your elders and professors.

no hard feelings brother


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## Finshaggy (Oct 20, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> This whole page is bahumbug!!!!


 [video=youtube;dy1OVL2vjck]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy1OVL2vjck&feature=fvst[/video]


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 20, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Dude I'm pretty sure I don't need to "go back to where I came from"...I'm sitting here right now  Don't start being patriotic about your education system, multiple choice exams? Get the fuck out man.
> 
> As for "educated speculation", I was more getting to the point that scientists speculate about the inside of the gas giants because they have been educated in Astrophysics and as such can fairly reliably predict the conditions inside by their understanding of physics and chemistry, as it tends to behave the same regardless of where it is. In this scenario life experience has nothing to do with it and adds nothing.
> 
> ...


I see this thread is for pooping.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 20, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> too fucking bad bro, go back to where you came from if you aint going to follow the AMerican way...
> 
> educated speculation? really!!! Now how do you gain "education"? schooling yes, but that will only take you so far, personal experience is what counts the most when making these speculations.
> 
> just because you have not experienced what believers have experienced does not make them ignorant or stupid or a mental health case like you say..


i think believers are suffering from mental problems , usually caused by religious indoctrination as a child, from there peirs .
the things you claimed to have experienced are proof its a mental problem , any sane person can see that religious experiences are the human mind halucinating .
and from the posts ive read from you i can confirm you are mentaly challenged .


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## Finshaggy (Oct 20, 2011)

Not Hallucinating. Copeing. They aren't mentally challenged. They have faith in something that inspires their lives. I'm not Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or any "faith". But what you said is stupid @Sativa.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 20, 2011)

And in true Christian communities they are always there for each other. And when there is a group of people working together to do a common thing. A "god" is there. That is god, people's/animal's/plant's ability together.


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## Harrekin (Oct 20, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> And in true Christian communities they are always there for each other. And when there is a group of people working together to do a common thing. A "god" is there. That is god, people's/animal's/plant's ability together.


Like the Westboro Baptist Church? They're true Bible following Christians that work as a group towards a common goal


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## Finshaggy (Oct 20, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Like the Westboro Baptist Church? They're true Bible following Christians that work as a group towards a common goal


That is "A God" at work. A fucked up, crazy, batshit, "God". But that is the power we as humans (animals) have, when we come together.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 20, 2011)

> i think believers are suffering from mental problems


I think from your intelligent display of stupidity, you are the one lacking in the metal department. Im pretty sure you are borderline retarded, sort of like "petarded"!!




> religious indoctrination as a child,


it seems to me and everyone else on here that you have been a victim of this "indoctrination" you spew all over the place... It is ok if your parents did not love you as a child... some parents just know their kids are going to be worthless pieces of shit and they probably lost hope on you throughout your early years..



> from there peirs .


@#$%#$%^%



> the things you claimed to have experienced are proof its a mental problem


how can they be proven jackass if it is a highly personal experience that cannot be replicated in a laboratory? ass wipe...



> any sane person


who told you, you were sane? I'd like to shoot that person in the face!



> that religious experiences are the human mind halucinating .


Hallucinating? Really? Man, you cant be any stupider brother... Im pretty sure when the brain hallucinates on its own is in dire situations, such as solitary confinement or starvation... WIthout chemical intervention, the mind cannot hallucinate... With your logic anyone who experiences something they cannot explain suffer from mental issues.. you dumb



> and from the posts ive read from you i can confirm you are mentaly challenged .


ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

seriously, if you are going to base peoples mental status by how they post, i believe you should be the first ginny pig brother...

everything you say is incoherent and retarded... well in your eyes, it may not seem that way, but to the rest of us, you should really consider taking a few rhetoric and literature classes


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## Harrekin (Oct 20, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> That is "A God" at work. A fucked up, crazy, batshit, "God". But that is the power we as humans (animals) have, when we come together.


 They are an example of a group of people who do exactly as the Bible tells them too...they still bat-shit crazy or simply "dedicated to Gods work"?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 20, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> They are an example of a group of people who do exactly as the Bible tells them too...they still bat-shit crazy or simply "dedicated to Gods work"?


"Dedicated to "Gods work" " In the most Batshit crazy way.


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## cannabineer (Oct 20, 2011)

> ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha haahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah a


Awesome! A close-up of what's in Spongebob's tighty-whities! cn
<edit> That didn't work ...


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## olylifter420 (Oct 21, 2011)

it is good to know what you think brother... i still think highly of you even though you think nothing me



> But I don't expect much from someone that believes in the magic sky wizard.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 21, 2011)

i believe in bigfoot, and they never found a body yet


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## Finshaggy (Oct 21, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> i believe in bigfoot, and they never found a body yet


There's even a show about this shit. They claim, "Bigfoot's use the power lines as pathways, since we don't build under them." Who fuckin figured that out??????


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 21, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> There's even a show about this shit. They claim, "Bigfoot's use the power lines as pathways, since we don't build under them." Who fuckin figured that out??????


 bigfoot is protected, so you really cant kill one or shoot one..but the same govt says they dotn exist LOL check it out


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## Finshaggy (Oct 21, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> bigfoot is protected, so you really cant kill one or shoot one..but the same govt says they dotn exist LOL check it out


That's hilarious. What if you think it's a fuckin bear, or gorilla, or man attacking you?


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

If religion is real why does it differ from one geographical region from another? Anyone that has raised a child with love will understand me when I say a child will believe anything you tell it regardless of how insane the idea may be.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> If religion is real why does it differ from one geographical region from another? Anyone that has raised a child with love will understand me when I say a child will believe anything you tell it regardless of how insane the idea may be.


Not true. I've tried that theory. Told my little brother to stick his hand through a headboard, told him it was liquid like water, and that his hand should push right through.
He didn't believe me, but I figured he would, and that that was the only factor in whether or not he'd be able to. So I'm still not sure if it is.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 21, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> That's hilarious. What if you think it's a fuckin bear, or gorilla, or man attacking you?


 self defense i guess LOL



BudDub said:


> If religion is real why does it differ from one geographical region from another? Anyone that has raised a child with love will understand me when I say a child will believe anything you tell it regardless of how insane the idea may be.


 what does this have to do with bigfoot? jk


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Not true. I've tried that theory. Told my little brother to stick his hand through a headboard, told him it was liquid like water, and that his hand should push right through.
> He didn't believe me, but I figured he would, and that that was the only factor in whether or not he'd be able to. So I'm still not sure if it is.


Well thats because your little brother had enough experience of his own to know the difference. How can someone have experience with something they can't see or feel (ie religion).


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 21, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Not true. I've tried that theory. Told my little brother to stick his hand through a headboard, told him it was liquid like water, and that his hand should push right through.
> He didn't believe me, but I figured he would, and that that was the only factor in whether or not he'd be able to. So I'm still not sure if it is.


 baby bigfoots are the same way


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## Finshaggy (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> Well thats because your little brother had enough experience of his own to know the difference. How can someone have experience with something they can't see or feel (ie religion).


But I'm just saying children won't believe "Anything no matter what."


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## sso (Oct 21, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> But I'm just saying children won't believe "Anything no matter what."


depends on who they ran into before you did that.

as a kid i got my lil bro to eat worms in the claim that they gave him superpowers (though to admit i had to give a little speech before he believed me)

but for sure, he never believed shit like that again lol


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> But I'm just saying children won't believe "Anything no matter what."


Tell that to a four year old when he tells you all about what Santa is bringing him for christmas, or how much money he got from the tooth fairy.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

Better yet tell it to the person somewhere in this forum who was raised in some bizarre ritualistic cult. Haven't you ever heard of that happening? When you do hear about it how do you separate what they believe and what the Bible teaches? There are plenty of bizarre and sometimes ritualistic stories in the Bible. What makes one taboo and another mainstream?


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## canniboss (Oct 21, 2011)

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

canniboss said:


> The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.


Thats a rather agnostic point of view it seems. So do you believe in any of the mainstream religions? If your answer is yes then how do you distinguish one religion from another, based on faith alone?


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## Pat the stoner (Oct 21, 2011)

I watched as my wife got brainwashed by a cult so called christian church . Along with her family we couldn't convince her of any thing rational . I have a steel plate in my head from Iraq serving our country cause I believed in something . I stood up for what I believe in with my life and still will .This so called preacher was in prison fo rape and other violent crimes for almost 20 years , but he says he was saved by jesus , I want to send him to see god if god is even real . This brain washing con man is just like charles manson with power over people who are really good people that get manipulated by sickos like this guy . She has given him all of our money cause god told him she should . F all that bulloney . I have loved her for 17 years been faithfull in our marriage and a good husband . She got bit by the wacko bug with these people who will believe anything he says cause god tells him what they all need to do. This guy threatened me and tried to scare me , but anyone who s been to war in combat knows we dont scare . The only reason I let him live is because I cant raise children from the slammer.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 21, 2011)

Man, the kids you know must be retarded or something!

My 4yr old step son is not gullible like those stupid kids you are talking about.

Dumb parents = dumb kids

We educate our son with all sortz of things. 





BudDub said:


> Tell that to a four year old when he tells you all about what Santa is bringing him for christmas, or how much money he got from the tooth fairy.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Man, the kids you know must be retarded or something!
> 
> My 4yr old step son is not gullible like those stupid kids you are talking about.
> 
> ...


Thats the point you "educate your son with sortz of things". Doesn't he take what you are telling him to be true as truth? (simple example you tell him the color blue is the color blue and he just accepts that as true). 

Did you teach him about santa or the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 21, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Not true. I've tried that theory. Told my little brother to stick his hand through a headboard, told him it was liquid like water, and that his hand should push right through.
> He didn't believe me, but I figured he would, and that that was the only factor in whether or not he'd be able to. So I'm still not sure if it is.


You are comparing the joke of a big brother to the authority of parents and society. As rightly pointed out, beliefs much more rediculous than a liquid headboard are told to and believed by children as a matter of routine. Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, even the boogieman are all examples of what a child will believe when there is authority behind the teachings. The point is, while it's okay to expose your children to what ever it is you believe, it is also important to give them the tools they need to judge the truth value of all claims, which includes critical thinking and rational analysis. Religious ideas are not what threaten our youth. Certainty in religious ideas coupled with obstruction of doubt is what threatens children and impedes progress.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 21, 2011)

So when are we going to take our fiat money to the white house gates and make a pile of 6 thousand million dollars in federal reserve notes and set it on fire?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 21, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> Man, the kids you know must be retarded or something!
> 
> My 4yr old step son is not gullible like those stupid kids you are talking about.
> 
> ...


including belief without evidence lol i feel sorry for your confuzed kids .


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## Finshaggy (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> Tell that to a four year old when he tells you all about what Santa is bringing him for christmas, or how much money he got from the tooth fairy.


I gave you a perfectly good example of a 4-5 year old not believing something.

Solids are liquids. He didn't believe it.

And Santa is a widely lied about subject, of course kids believe it. That's a given.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> Better yet tell it to the person somewhere in this forum who was raised in some bizarre ritualistic cult. Haven't you ever heard of that happening? When you do hear about it how do you separate what they believe and what the Bible teaches? There are plenty of bizarre and sometimes ritualistic stories in the Bible. What makes one taboo and another mainstream?


Ok. I NEVER DISAGREED WITH YOU.

These things CAN happen.

But they also CAN NOT happen sometimes. You're stupid to think every child is the same.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 21, 2011)

lol its hillarious people are bringing santa into this thread lol


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## Finshaggy (Oct 21, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> You are comparing the joke of a big brother to the authority of parents and society. As rightly pointed out, beliefs much more rediculous than a liquid headboard are told to and believed by children as a matter of routine. Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, even the boogieman are all examples of what a child will believe when there is authority behind the teachings. The point is, while it's okay to expose your children to what ever it is you believe, it is also important to give them the tools they need to judge the truth value of all claims, which includes critical thinking and rational analysis. Religious ideas are not what threaten our youth. Certainty in religious ideas coupled with obstruction of doubt is what threatens children and impedes progress.


I wasn't "COMPARING" at all. I was saying that EVERY child won't believe EVERYTHING.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 21, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I wasn't "COMPARING" at all. I was saying that EVERY child won't believe EVERYTHING.
> 
> You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.


 i will for you!!! Bigfoots don even belive in santa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 21, 2011)

lets forget santa anyone knows that a fat guy dressed in red does not go down every childs chimney , lets face the fact that there is no evidence for any god any human has ever invented .


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## Heisenberg (Oct 21, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I wasn't "COMPARING" at all. I was saying that EVERY child won't believe EVERYTHING.
> 
> You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.


The point being made was 



> *a child will believe anything you tell it regardless of how insane the idea may be.*


To which you said "not true". The point was made in the context of religion, so if you were not comparing the two then you were taking the statement out of context and asserting a different point that is obvious to all, children wont believe everything all the time. In fact, children often disbelieve other children, giving rise to the playground chant "nu-uh". This really has nothing to do with the idea that which religion you choose is widely based on the geographical location a person grows up in, and the purposed explanation that children believe what they are told by parents/authority. This point was backed up by several good examples of adults creating and perpetuating absurd beliefs in children. I am not sure how your brother not believing you about the headboard has any bearing or in any way counters the explanation that people's certainty in god tends to be based on parental guidance. Why does a child eventually give up belief in Santa and the tooth fairy? It's because the belief is not shared by the adults. If your brother was having deep questions about the existence of the headboard, things he could not reconcile, and he came to you for answers and discovered these answers were believed by all of the adult authority figures around him; if these answers were laden with logical tricks and subtle manipulations and included a total refusal of dispute, AND he had no way to test or verify these answers by simply seeing for himself, it would then be a proper comparison to religion.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 21, 2011)

> Thats the point you "educate your son with sortz of things". D


I meant science things, just incase you misunderstood me... My point is, your assumption about believers is your opinion and you have all the right to say it...



> Doesn't he take what you are telling him to be true as truth?


yes, but my step son is not of age to be taught things about our beliefs yet. You see, that is what makes this "indoctrination" crap that tsh loves... his small brain does not understand that most christian believers are chill people and understand that teaching them about Jesus Christ at their young age is not suitable... Once he is of age and able to think for himself and understand things for what they are, then at that point, i will let him know about the things i have been taught and he wishes to know them, all he has to do is ask... I do not force things on people, that is not fair for anyone and demonstrates poor people skills.



> simple example you tell him the color blue is the color blue and he just accepts that as true).


listen man, my step son is very intelligent for his age and cannot be fooled easily. I do not know what point you are trying to make



> Did you teach him about santa or the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy?


I did not have to teach about that because he was able to decipher it on his own... It your problem if you were let down by your parents about those fair figures you speak of. You see, if the tooth fairy or the boogie man were the same as Jesus, then i think there would have been plenty of extensive books on them.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 21, 2011)

what are you talking about dude, santa is for real yoooo!!! just go and watch the new harold and kumar kill santa movie, go, you will see with your own eyes he exists yoooo





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lets forget santa anyone knows that a fat guy dressed in red does not go down every childs chimney , lets face the fact that there is no evidence for any god any human has ever invented .


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## olylifter420 (Oct 21, 2011)

whatever you say dude is not valid amongst these sub forums.. you have tarnished your own image on here not only amongst us believers, but amongst your own atheists... many on here (atheists) wish that you would stop rambling your small brain around here till you learn to respect others... till then, no one will take you serious, if you have not noticed that by now...




ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> including belief without evidence lol i feel sorry for your confuzed kids .


[video=youtube;fmI9Kdgz6F4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmI9Kdgz6F4&feature=related[/video]


you are brian... the asshole

and really, how many volunteer hours have you done?


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## BudDub (Oct 22, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> I gave you a perfectly good example of a 4-5 year old not believing something.
> 
> Solids are liquids. He didn't believe it.
> 
> And Santa is a widely lied about subject, of course kids believe it. That's a given.


And I gave you a perfectly good response and I thought you understood it because you even liked my comment. I guess it went over your head.

"Well thats because your little brother had enough experience of his own to know the difference. How can someone have experience with something they can't see or feel (ie religion)." 





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol its hillarious people are bringing santa into this thread lol


Im bringing santa into this thread to prove my point that children will believe their parental figures no matter how insane the concept may be. And when you say things like 'I don't know what kinda stupid kids you know' your referring to all the children that believe in santa claus. Now Im comparing something like santa or the easter bunny to our modern day religions and if parents are reenforcing these ideas to their children then they're going to believe it. Is anyone beside Heisenburg actually competent enough to follow the point Im making?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 22, 2011)

BudDub said:


> And I gave you a perfectly good response and I thought you understood it because you even liked my comment. I guess it went over your head.
> 
> "Well thats because your little brother had enough experience of his own to know the difference. How can someone have experience with something they can't see or feel (ie religion)."
> 
> ...


I understand what you're getting at, but not all religious people were forced religion down their throats at a young age. And of course little kids believe everything their parents tell them, who said the kids didn't believe everything their parents told them? < serious question, I don't feel like going back pages to find who said you were wrong, I'm assuming it was finshaggy.


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## sso (Oct 22, 2011)

humm, the middle east religions (those that survived (bhaal means the lord f.e, was a widely loved god back then (well mostly feared, so much they burned babies alive to him))

well..

here is god, alone.

he makes everything and then people (or something like that)

not to raise as his children.

no,according to the dominant version of this story here in the west.

god makes humans as a crop. 

some fall into barren ground, some into good soil and others into rocks.

so, to take this logically, someone that made everything perfectly, then just took a bunch of seeds and threw them into the wind, knowing full well that some would perish, others would be choked by weeds (that he created) some would become weeds and some would grow poorly.

each seed being actually made by this guy who knew exactly what he was doing.

and what it meant to be thrown into rocky ground or choked with weeds.

and then he made the crop to have sentience, feelings and free will.

and then he commanded the crop, "obey me or burn forever!"

(so, instead of being just burned and gone, actually needs to suffer forever)

as a grower its bit difficult to understand this "god" 

and actually this story is boring me too much to go on writing about it lol


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## Finshaggy (Oct 22, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> The point being made was
> 
> To which you said "not true". The point was made in the context of religion, so if you were not comparing the two then you were taking the statement out of context and asserting a different point that is obvious to all, children wont believe everything all the time. In fact, children often disbelieve other children, giving rise to the playground chant "nu-uh". This really has nothing to do with the idea that which religion you choose is widely based on the geographical location a person grows up in, and the purposed explanation that children believe what they are told by parents/authority. This point was backed up by several good examples of adults creating and perpetuating absurd beliefs in children. I am not sure how your brother not believing you about the headboard has any bearing or in any way counters the explanation that people's certainty in god tends to be based on parental guidance. Why does a child eventually give up belief in Santa and the tooth fairy? It's because the belief is not shared by the adults. If your brother was having deep questions about the existence of the headboard, things he could not reconcile, and he came to you for answers and discovered these answers were believed by all of the adult authority figures around him; if these answers were laden with logical tricks and subtle manipulations and included a total refusal of dispute, AND he had no way to test or verify these answers by simply seeing for himself, it would then be a proper comparison to religion.


You were right in your assumption. I was removing religion from it, and saying that "Children won't believe _EVERYTHING"_ That's what I was saying. 

And they don't give up belief because it isn't shared by adults. That's STUPID, we would believe in Santa and the toothfairy until we were 18 if that was true. They figure out that it IS the parents, not that the parents don't believe. We DISCOVER it when we are still children. It's not when we learn what adults know.

You must have thought Santa was real till you were like 20 huh?


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## Finshaggy (Oct 22, 2011)

BudDub said:


> "Well thats because your little brother had enough experience of his own to know the difference. How can someone have experience with something they can't see or feel (ie religion)."


By having been to a chruch. That's how I stopped being Christian. We started going to Synaygogs and stuff for "Confirmation". 
I asked "Do Jews go to Hell"

And the answer I got was :"No"

But that contradicted the Bible. So started my unfaith.

You CAN have experience with religion. YOU just must not.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 22, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> And they don't give up belief because it isn't shared by adults. That's STUPID, we would believe in Santa and the toothfairy until we were 18 if that was true. They figure out that it IS the parents, not that the parents don't believe. We DISCOVER it when we are still children. It's not when we learn what adults know.
> 
> You must have thought Santa was real till you were like 20 huh?


I did not say children give up on Santa when they reach legal adult age. I am saying at some point a child develops enough critical thinking skills to question Santa et all, and a parent generally does not discourage this. I myself and many people i've asked all attempted to apply the same critical thinking skills to God as well and the difference was we found belief in God to be nearly universal in the authority figures around us. Questions are answered with confusing nonsense and a strong discouragement of dispute. If belief in Santa was shared by adults who donate money to him and worship him on Sundays far less children would give up the belief.

The initial point was that the particular God someone worships tends to have a great deal to do with the geographical and chronological location you were born in. This is a point that has been demonstrated quite conclusively. When and where you were born very much shapes the specific certitude you are likely to have in God. Since circumstances of birth are random, this strongly suggests a significant if not key component to the idea of God is culture. Virtually all cultures have creation myths, resurrection myths, flood myths, ect. It seems likely that the idea of God is simply our brains tendency to apply intentional agents to what we perceive as meaningful patters. Intentional agents are also something we can demonstrate and document fairly conclusively. The particulars of those agents are shaped by culture and passed down through history from parents to children. It doesn't matter how absurd the belief is, if the authority figures back it up most of the children will believe it. All of this represents several strong lines of evidence to suggest that man created God, or more aptly the specifics of God, rather than the other way around.

Now how does your example of your brother and the liquid headboard have any bearing on this theory? You claimed it was a perfectly good example of why the explanation is not true. It seems it was simply an example of how children are not blank hard drives unquestionably awaiting programming, which was never a position anyone took.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 22, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I did not say children give up on Santa when they reach legal adult age. I am saying at some point a child develops enough critical thinking skills to question Santa et all, and a parent generally does not discourage this. I myself and many people i've asked all attempted to apply the same critical thinking skills to God as well and the difference was we found belief in God to be nearly universal in the authority figures around us. Questions are answered with confusing nonsense and a strong discouragement of dispute. If belief in Santa was shared by adults who donate money to him and worship him on Sundays far less children would give up the belief.
> 
> The initial point was that the particular God someone worships tends to have a great deal to do with the geographical and chronological location you were born in. This is a point that has been demonstrated quite conclusively. When and where you were born very much shapes the specific certitude you are likely to have in God. Since circumstances of birth are random, this strongly suggests a significant if not key component to the idea of God is culture. Virtually all cultures have creation myths, resurrection myths, flood myths, ect. It seems likely that the idea of God is simply our brains tendency to apply intentional agents to what we perceive as meaningful patters. Intentional agents are also something we can demonstrate and document fairly conclusively. The particulars of those agents are shaped by culture and passed down through history from parents to children. It doesn't matter how absurd the belief is, if the authority figures back it up most of the children will believe it. All of this represents several strong lines of evidence to suggest that man created God, or more aptly the specifics of God, rather than the other way around.
> 
> Now how does your example of your brother and the liquid headboard have any bearing on this theory? You claimed it was a perfectly good example of why the explanation is not true. It seems it was simply an example of how children are not blank hard drives unquestionably awaiting programming, which was never a position anyone took.


Yes. It does have to do with that theory.
Based on the culture and religion and all that we came up with the scenario "Will children believe what is told to them, by authority figures in their lives"
Someone said, "A child will believe anything they are told."
I replied "They won't believe EVERYTHING" With that story as an example.
My point was simple, and slightly off topic. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## BudDub (Oct 23, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> By having been to a chruch. That's how I stopped being Christian. We started going to Synaygogs and stuff for "Confirmation".
> I asked "Do Jews go to Hell"
> 
> And the answer I got was :"No"
> ...


Were you a child when this happened? Because I thought we were talking about children?


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## Shannon Alexander (Oct 23, 2011)

I've been physically healed before through faith by the power of god in a christian church and I'm not even 50% sure that Jesus was anything but a prophet... People always say that they want proof but then when presented with truthful testimony about peoples experiences with miracles they always dismiss it...


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 23, 2011)

on a similar topic, go search my thread 'Gays, they are humans too'. It is just as master-debatable as this thread XD


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 23, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> on a similar topic, go search my thread 'Gays, they are humans too'. It is just as master-debatable as this thread XD


Lol, I see you like that master debater joke haha. When I was in elementary and up I would always piss off my teachers by saying that. Oh and I would scream "two stupid dogs" (cartoon).


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## Heisenberg (Oct 24, 2011)

Shannon Alexander said:


> I've been physically healed before through faith by the power of god in a christian church and I'm not even 50% sure that Jesus was anything but a prophet... People always say that they want proof but then when presented with truthful testimony about peoples experiences with miracles they always dismiss it...


"In all forms of anecdotal evidence, its reliability by objective independent assessment may be in doubt. This is a consequence of the informal way the information is gathered, documented, presented, or any combination of the three. The term is often used to describe evidence for which there is an absence of documentation, leaving verification dependent on the credibility of the party presenting the evidence."


"information that is not based on facts or careful study"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence#cite_note-Cambridge-3
"non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence#cite_note-dictionary.com-4
"reports or observations of usually unscientific observers"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence#cite_note-m-w-5
"casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence#cite_note-yourdictionary-6
"information passed along by word-of-mouth but not documented scientifically"


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## Heisenberg (Oct 24, 2011)

I think this thread is the best place for this. This is something I think we all, including myself, should try to keep in mind.



> there _is_ a tendency to belittle, to condescend, to ignore the fact, that, deluded or not, supporters of superstitions and pseudoscience are human-beings with real beliefs, who, like the skeptics, are trying to figure out how the world works and what our role in it might be. Their motives are in many cases consonant with science. If their culture has not given them all the tools they need to pursue this great quest, let us temper our criticism with kindness. None of us comes fully equipped.
> 
> the chief deficiency I see in the skeptical movement is in its polarization: Us vs. Them&#8212;the sense that _we_ have a monopoly on the truth; that those other people who believe in all these stupid doctrines are morons; that if you&#8217;re sensible, you&#8217;ll listen to us; and if not, you&#8217;re beyond redemption. This is unconstructive. It does not get the message across. It condemns the skeptics to permanent minority status; whereas, a compassionate approach that from the beginning acknowledges the human roots of pseudoscience and superstition might be much more widely accepted. -- Mr Sagan


Also keep in mind this does not describe every believer here. Some are not trying to figure out the world so much as control it and force it to conform to the ideas that give them comfort or power. But most of us are simply seeking answers.


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## Brazko (Oct 24, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I think this thread is the best place for this. This is something I think we all, including myself, should try to keep in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I could rep you I would, but the Puff Puff Pass rule is Universal. 

Outside the fact of me being raised by Carl Sagan as a kid watching PBS programs right before sesame street and Mr. Rogers..lol 

I just simply admire everything about him still to this day.

His voice is forever stuck in my head.


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## Finshaggy (Oct 25, 2011)

BudDub said:


> Were you a child when this happened? Because I thought we were talking about children?


Yes. I was in confirmation I said. Which is confirmation class. A class for _children_ to confirm their faith at the end of. I was like 10 or 11.

I've had conversations with my younger brothers, about faith that prove they know how to have thoughts of their own also.


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## BudDub (Oct 25, 2011)

Finshaggy said:


> Yes. I was in confirmation I said. Which is confirmation class. A class for _children_ to confirm their faith at the end of. I was like 10 or 11.
> 
> I've had conversations with my younger brothers, about faith that prove they know how to have thoughts of their own also.


At 10 or 11 your no longer a child but move into preadolescence.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 29, 2011)

Great new book


> *Paranormality: Why we see what isn&#8217;t there*
> Richard Wiseman is clear about one thing: Paranormal phenomena don&#8217;t exist. But in the same way space travel yields technology that transforms our everyday lives, so research into telepathy, fortune-telling and out-of-body experiences produces remarkable insights into our brains, behavior and beliefs.
> Would you like to control your dreams, convince strangers that you know all about them, and unleash the power of your unconscious mind? Then throw away your crystals and ditch your lucky charms. It is time to discover the real secrets of the paranormal.


[video=youtube;KMfyffsl_kg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMfyffsl_kg[/video]


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