# Mycorrhiza Fungi...why you should get to know them...



## Ohsogreen (Sep 7, 2008)

Sometimes, things are so well written, it would be a dis-service to paraphrase them. I ran across this page on Mycorrhizal Fungi and thought it was great info. So, here is a link to it:
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Mycorrhiza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Give it a read. Afterwards, you will have a better understanding of why these myco fungi - sold in products like Plant Sucess, Myco Magic, Sub-Culture and Super Plant Tonic - kick such serious a*s. 
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Add them in your grow and reap the benefits. These little fungi, mine out every last bit of P for Mary - so her buddage reaches maximum potential.
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They also pump up the plants immune system by making all the necessary trace minerals soluble and kill off bad bacteria as a bonus. It's a win / win formula. So, next time someone says " There's a fungus among us - Say Cool, I was hopeing for some. "
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Keep it Real...Organic.....
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## phatkix (Sep 7, 2008)

nice post. that link is perfect.


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## surryman (Sep 10, 2008)

Good on you OhSo.
The more I know................


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## Ohsogreen (Sep 24, 2008)

Just thought, I'd recycle this thread back to the top, for those who have not given it a look yet.
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Sources of these fungi include Plant Sucess (OK), Myco Magic (OK) Sub-Culture (slightly better) and Super Plant Tonic (my favorite - none better).
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I threw in a pic or two, to show the benefits of use.
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Keep it Real....Organic.....
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## Rix (Sep 24, 2008)

Hi OSG,could you have a look at this please.
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/downloads/product_information_sheets/Microbial%20Products/Nutri-Life%20Myco-Tea.pdf


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## Chookface (Sep 24, 2008)

you think sub culture is an adequate source to innoculate the roots with myco dudes?


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## GoodFriend (Sep 24, 2008)

soil secrets "earth nectar" and "earth ambrosia" a wonderful humic and fulvic acid innoccullant full of the beneficial bacteria's growers love...

cheap and effective... i recommend it =]


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## Ohsogreen (Sep 25, 2008)

Chookface said:


> you think sub culture is an adequate source to innoculate the roots with myco dudes?


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Chookface..... Yes, Sub-Culture is a decent amendment. I've noticed they now sell it in a Myco fungi only mix & a Good Bacteria only mix. Hmmmm...... 
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GH sures knows how to make a buck. They break everything down to lot's of parts - so they can make lot's of dough - selling you all the parts.
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Myco Magic, Plant Sucess and Super Plant Tonic are probably better choices. They come fully assembled. Not parts & parts with more parts available for a buck.
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If Sub-Culture is all you have access to - get it - any micro-beasties - wheter they be fungi or bacteria - will benefit your plants.
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Keep it Real...Organic......
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## Ohsogreen (Sep 25, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> soil secrets "earth nectar" and "earth ambrosia" a wonderful humic and fulvic acid innoccullant full of the beneficial bacteria's growers love...
> 
> cheap and effective... i recommend it =]


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Lumberjack_Ian..... I've seen the stuff on Wormsway's website for $ 20
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Drumsinttown has been using it on a grow, and I was wondering how it performed. I've been using Super Plant Tonic for a while now and I absolutely love the stuff. It has myco fungi, good bacteria and trace minerals - all natural and very effective. 
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The company that makes it, sells it on Ebay $ 7 a bottle (plus shipping). I'm going to buy up a few extra bottles here soon. It's becoming more known, so I exspect the price to go up soon. LOL.... 
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Keep it Real....Organic....
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## Seamaiden (Sep 25, 2008)

So, I was chattin' up my mycos today, and they thanked me for throwing some of their family out front. The plants cheered.


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## Ohsogreen (Oct 5, 2008)

Ohsogreen... Clicks his magic mouse and presto....this thread is recycled. 
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Hope it helps someone.....
Keep it Real....Organic....
...


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## thelastpirate (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanx for bumping this thread. There must be something wrong with the search function, 'cuz when I use it, I get alot of worthless, unrelated shit. I have been interested in mycorrhizae for a couple of months now, but could find very little here on RIU.
Has anyone ever tried BioTone starter Plus? I have already mixed the soil for this next grow, so it's probably a moot point, but I'm interested in any first hand knowledge opinions as to it's efficacy.
My reason for going with the BioTone over the other product with mycorrhizae only was the fact that it contained the other trace minerals (purportedly organic) as well.
I _FINALLY_ found a local source for bat guano and worm castings!!!! Joy!!! It's kinda funny when you start asking Q's about the organic ferts like guano, worm castings, kelp etc. I'm pretty sure that they know whats up. Not a whole lot of people (veggie growers) who go to this nursery know much about mycorrhizae or guano. Careful how much you let slip. I got a _"knowing look"_ from the sales clerk. But it's all good, I'm pretty sure she smokes too!


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## buffalosoulja (Oct 6, 2008)

ohso i saw a product at planetnatural.com called rooters mychorizae, here are the ingredients 
12,510 propagules/gram - Pisolithus tinctorius
317 propagules/gram - Rhizopogon rubescens
317 propagules/gram - Rhizopogon fulvigleba
317 propagules/gram - Rhizopogon villosulus
317 propagules/gram - Rhizopogon subacarelescens
2.46 propagules/gram - Glomus intraradices
2.46 propagules/gram - Glomus aggregatum
2.46 propagules/gram - Glomus mosseae 
Also if this is a good product can i mix it with my tea? Preciate the info.
Also awesome thread.


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## gangjababy (Oct 6, 2008)

yeah you can use it in your tea, there should be instructions for use on the back for hydrogardens and just follow that.


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## buffalosoulja (Oct 6, 2008)

thanx man.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 6, 2008)

You might be able to keep those microbeasties propagated by feeding them with a wee bit of molasses.


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## buffalosoulja (Oct 6, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> You might be able to keep those microbeasties propagated by feeding them with a wee bit of molasses.


I currently use molasses in my tea, will adding the mychorrzae not help then.


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## Ohsogreen (Oct 6, 2008)

buffalosoulja said:


> I currently use molasses in my tea, will adding the mychorrzae not help then.


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Buffalosoulja.... The molasses you use in your tea will provide the micro-beasties (aka- good bacteria & fungi) with a food source. They will bio-convert (eat & poop it out), making it more soluble to your plants, while increasing their numbers. It will help, so do use it.
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Hope this helps....
Keep it Real....Organic.....
.


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## buffalosoulja (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanks ohso.


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## w99illie (Oct 7, 2008)

Ohsogreen said:


> .
> Lumberjack_Ian..... I've seen the stuff on Wormsway's website for $ 20
> .
> Drumsinttown has been using it on a grow, and I was wondering how it performed. I've been using Super Plant Tonic for a while now and I absolutely love the stuff. It has myco fungi, good bacteria and trace minerals - all natural and very effective.
> ...


whats the shelf life on SPT


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## K.J (Oct 7, 2008)

Great post. I would highly recommend checking out Paul Stamet's work and his MycoGrow products at Fungi Perfecti®: MycoGrow&#8482; mycorrhizal products. I can't vouch for these specific products personally, but I have read his books and I use his MycoMedicinal products, so I can vouch for the quality of his companies work in general.

I do believe that all of his mushrooms are grown organically, but you may want to check to verify that for these specific products. *EDIT:* This from their homepage: Fungi Perfecti® is Certified Organic by the Washington State Department of Agriculture. In business since 1980, we offer an ever-expanding product line for the mushroom enthusiast.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 7, 2008)

I've just read a fascinating article about people who suffer from cluster headaches achieving amazing relief by using hallucinogenic drugs. I'm gonna have to find it and post it up here.


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## Ohsogreen (Oct 7, 2008)

w99illie said:


> whats the shelf life on SPT


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W99illie.... SPT has a shelf life of two years from the date they bottle it.
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Keep it Real...Organic.....
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## buffalosoulja (Oct 7, 2008)

ohso you know the shelf life of homemade tea? I use an air pump, with airstones. also does it matter on my ingredients?


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## Ohsogreen (Oct 8, 2008)

buffalosoulja said:


> ohso you know the shelf life of homemade tea? I use an air pump, with airstones. also does it matter on my ingredients?


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Buffalosoulja.... If you keep your tea mix bubbling, it will not go *(sour) anerobic* on you. If you bubble a mix of ingredients, like molasses, bat guano or most any organic source of NPK, once you turn off the air pump, it will go completely anerobic (sour) within about 4-5 days. 
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Unless, you introduce a small amount of dead anerobic bacteria into the active (bubbling tea). Doing that causes a immune like response. The good bacteria excrete substances to kill off the bad ones. But since the bad ones are already dead, these substances do not get used. Then later after the air pump goes off, it prolongs the life of the mix. By killing off anerobic bacteria quickly as they try to reproduce. 
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That has to be done under certain temps & pressure, and in correct ratios to work correctly. It's fairy technical. That's what BMO does with their SPT. That's part of the reason it works so well. 
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Hope this helps....
Keep it Real....Organic.....
.


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## Ohsogreen (Nov 16, 2008)

Lets recycle this thread.... myco fungi are great.... everyone should use them.....


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## Greenscreen (Nov 17, 2008)

Very cool, My bag of dirt says "Mycorise Pro inside" 
didnt look this up until I saw this thread 
apparently I was using Endomycorrhiza and didnt even realize it.
thanks ohso


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## Mong (Nov 18, 2008)

is there a type of mycorrhiza that penetrates the plant cells rather than roots, that should be avoided in cannabis plants?
ive heard of mycorhiza causing trouble by populating a whole plant, like mycelium .

ive been using a sachet of this stuff.. cant remember what its called. root magic?


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## gangjababy (Nov 18, 2008)

the mycellium are the "roots" of the mushroom, myccorizhae mycellium is the stuff that grows in symbiosis with the roots.


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## Ohsogreen (Nov 18, 2008)

Mong said:


> is there a type of mycorrhiza that penetrates the plant cells rather than roots, that should be avoided in cannabis plants?
> ive heard of mycorhiza causing trouble by populating a whole plant, like mycelium .
> 
> ive been using a sachet of this stuff.. cant remember what its called. root magic?


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Mong... *Using myco fungi to grow Mary is a good thing*. It will boost growth in a matter of days. Products like Sub Culture, Plant Success, Myco Magic...etc... are stocked by all the big hydro and garden stores - because the stuff works so well.
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Now, Growing Mushrooms next to Mary is a bad thing. The Mushrooms will rob Mary of the nutes in the root zone, as Mushroom throw out a wicked amount of runners. 
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In fact, *nothing grows well next to Mushrooms*. Even the soil used to grow Mushrooms, when removed from the Mushroom growing area - has to lay fallow (unused / undistrubed by law) for *two years* before it can be sold - as Mushroom Compost - to ensure the Mushrooms spores are no longer alive in that soil.
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The good news on that deal is - *Mushroom Compost is an excellent soil amendment*. If you find some for sale - buy it & use it. The stuff is full of micro-life and is great for Mary.
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Hope this helps....
Keep it Real...Organic....


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## NewGrowth (Nov 18, 2008)

This is a pretty cool fungus with a really cool symbiotic relationship with plants, I studied it in botany. Thanks Osho I love all your organic posts!


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## max420thc (Nov 25, 2008)

advanced nute's voodoo juice..pirana ..tarantula ..sensi zyme...are bennifical fungus and bacteria for your plants root zone..thanks for the thread..very informative..carbo load keeps the bacteria fed..before i feed the girls with nute solution i bubble all of the nutes and bacteria together for a day..then pour it on them..that way everything is getting activated and worked up ...my water buckets have fungus all over them..it looks black...and smells like a fungus...not bad or rotten though..its just from the pirahna and tarantula brewing up in the water buckets...with the air stones...the air stones turn black with fungus too...your plant can only do as good as the roots


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## Ohsogreen (Nov 26, 2008)

Max420THC... Yes, life begets life - all growers that understand this - grow the best weed - for a fact ! Microlife - aka - Microorganisms - aka - Microbeasties - are there working 24 hours a day / 7 days a week to promote the health of your plants. 
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Microbeasties....are GOOD..... 
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Keep it Real...Organic.... which equals alive & well - aka - Fat, Frosty & Chronic....
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## SimpleSimon (Nov 30, 2008)

i just read the wiki. Good stuff. I have been building my soil for a while. I have been relying on the good bacteria in the compost tea i am making. Do know if this would be a good source of mycorrhiza? Or should i go buy some in a bottle and add it to my soil. I noticed on the bottle of it they they recommend doing a root dip/bath to make sure the roots come into contact with the mycorrhiza.


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## Ohsogreen (Nov 30, 2008)

SimpleSimon said:


> i just read the wiki. Good stuff. I have been building my soil for a while. I have been relying on the good bacteria in the compost tea i am making. Do know if this would be a good source of mycorrhiza? Or should i go buy some in a bottle and add it to my soil. I noticed on the bottle of it they they recommend doing a root dip/bath to make sure the roots come into contact with the mycorrhiza.


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SimpleSimon..... If when making compost, you throw in a handful or two of healthy soil - some myco fungi are in it. When you make a compost tea, you will pass on some good bacteria & myco fungi. 
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The benefits for the bottled or prepackaged stuff are you are guaranteed you are getting both good bacteria & fungi. 
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For the money, I believe myco fungi are a very good investiment. I don't hesitate to shuck out $ 10 for a bottle of SPT. Other good sources are Sub-Culture, Myco Magic, and Plant Success.
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The nice thing about having a bottle or package is - when I harvest my compost - I'm able to sprinkle some in - prior to mixing up soil or making a compost tea. It ensures - they will be there for my plants.
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This is really the only thing I buy with any frequency - because it gets great results. After you try it on one run, you'll keep on using it - Myco's are just that Good !!
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Hope this helps....
Keep it Real....Organic...


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## Ohsogreen (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks Newgrowth... I try to contribute to the cause...... Like my signature says......


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## NewGrowth (Nov 30, 2008)

Hey Osho you got me inspired I hope I +rep you a lot. Ever checked out stuff by Paul Stamets? He is a mycologist that has done some awesome things with symbiotic mycelium. You have me doing all kinds of research on mushrooms now.
Ever thought of incorporating a shroom grow with a marijuana grow? The mushrooms produce CO2 that could be pumped into the plant room. 

Here is Mr.Stamets site he sells the beneficial mycelium spores here too. Might be worth buying for all you organic lovers! 
http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/index.html

Mushrooms can do some pretty amazing things for sure.


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## Ohsogreen (Dec 11, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> Hey Osho you got me inspired I hope I +rep you a lot. Ever checked out stuff by Paul Stamets? He is a mycologist that has done some awesome things with symbiotic mycelium. You have me doing all kinds of research on mushrooms now.
> Ever thought of incorporating a shroom grow with a marijuana grow? The mushrooms produce CO2 that could be pumped into the plant room.
> 
> Here is Mr.Stamets site he sells the beneficial mycelium spores here too. Might be worth buying for all you organic lovers!
> ...


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NewGrowth..... Thanks... I'm always glad when I get someone to reconsider organics. It is a cheaper, healther way to grow. I've never considered growing mushrooms along with Mary. But it sounds like a neat ideal, I plan on researching it more. Thanks for sharing....
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Keep it Real...Organic....


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## NewGrowth (Dec 11, 2008)

Ohsogreen said:


> .
> NewGrowth..... Thanks... I'm always glad when I get someone to reconsider organics. It is a cheaper, healther way to grow. I've never considered growing mushrooms along with Mary. But it sounds like a neat ideal, I plan on researching it more. Thanks for sharing....
> .
> Keep it Real...Organic....


I love organic weed, it just does not work out well indoors. I grow everything else organic though, all my veggies in the garden are 100% organic. I also have one of these in my kitchen  http://www.naturemill.com/

Mushroom idea is cool huh!? It would be like "organic" CO2


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## RudeBoy80 (Dec 12, 2008)

i have a package of oreganism XL which contains this fungi. Im into the 3rd week of flower. Should i use it now or wait until next round? Anyone ever heard of this suff by aurora innovations? Oreganism XL? Thanks


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## Ohsogreen (Dec 12, 2008)

RudeBoy80 said:


> i have a package of oreganism XL which contains this fungi. Im into the 3rd week of flower. Should i use it now or wait until next round? Anyone ever heard of this suff by aurora innovations? Oreganism XL? Thanks


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RudeBoy80..... The good news - *it's not too late*.... Use it as per the instructions on the package.... introducing these fungi / bacteria into your grow medium will help your plants reach their maximum potential.....
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I'd use them now, and at week 5. Then discountinue using them, since you will have a good population established, with two treatments. No need wasting them.
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Keep it Real....Organic....


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## SimpleSimon (Dec 21, 2008)

I found this, click on the more about fungi under the picture of the bottle.

http://www.bustan.ca/product_detail.asp?menuID=21&SID=83&PID=624#


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## Ohsogreen (Jan 10, 2009)

SimpleSimpon...... I was fairly stoned the first time I looked, then it hit me " Key Words " directly below pic. Then I got it.
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http://www.bustan.ca/pdfUpload/microbe-efs.pdf
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Here is the link you are referring too - I thought I should put it on, in case someone else is as stoned as I was when they click your link & forget the instructions. LOL...
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Keep it Real...Organic...


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## got2loveit (Jan 13, 2009)

i think osho has the dudeness of the DUDE and from all the posts ive been reading he is the dudest dude on RIU!! i know ive been abit lost mr osho! i have followed your advice however and my 8 day old baby looks fucking good!!! im in europe so i dont get the brands u state have to look up and see if i can find something with these properties here!!1 couldnt resist giving you the +rep you deserve!!!


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## d4n (Apr 5, 2012)

Good info in here, this deserves another bump!


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## vtguy420 (May 4, 2012)

Hey I'm using roots Organics soil with happy frog dry all purpose 5-5-5 for veg and beginning of flower. For flowering I use spikes of HP bulb food 3-8-8 around the edges of the container. I also use FF big bloom throughout. I've read a lot of the Rev in skunk mag. He says using phosphorus throughout your soil mix piss's off your mycro life and recommends keeping it in layers or pockets. Right now I'm wondering if I should get some more spt or if my other sources are enough? Yea thanks for all the info. Keepin it real..... Organic.


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## KushDog (May 4, 2012)

vtguy420 said:


> Hey I'm using roots Organics soil with happy frog dry all purpose 5-5-5 for veg and beginning of flower. For flowering I use spikes of HP bulb food 3-8-8 around the edges of the container. I also use FF big bloom throughout. I've read a lot of the Rev in skunk mag. He says using phosphorus throughout your soil mix piss's off your mycro life and recommends keeping it in layers or pockets. Right now I'm wondering if I should get some more spt or if my other sources are enough? Yea thanks for all the info. Keepin it real..... Organic.


I know someone that uses Happy frog soil, and the happy frog tomato and vegetble 7-4-5 in veg, than in flower they use happy frog fruit and flower 5-8-4 with really nice results (for how easy it is)


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## knnthc93 (May 26, 2012)

If I bubble tab water for 24 hours. Then add a tea with mycro's, will they live in tap water?


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## WyoGrow (Jun 8, 2012)

Age Old Organics has a good line of organic ferts & supplements. Including a water soluble mycorrhizae that I've used in my garden for years. Fantastic stuff. A tad spendy.... but worth it.


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## malignant (Jun 9, 2012)

knnthc93 said:


> If I bubble tab water for 24 hours. Then add a tea with mycro's, will they live in tap water?


 id go for 72 to be safe


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## jimmy1life (Jun 11, 2012)

If using chemical ferts are they useless. I bought a myco mix from kelp4less. Do you know if its worth adding a myco tea once a week while feeding chemically growing in coco coir. 
Oh I also bought a 50/50 humic fulvic mix should I combine these with myco mix.


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## knnthc93 (Jun 11, 2012)

The chem nutes would kill the mycros


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## jimmy1life (Jun 11, 2012)

Dang waste of money I guess. I'll probally still dump it on um.


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## tkopin21 (Jul 5, 2012)

so how much sugar should be used for 2 liters


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## tkopin21 (Jul 5, 2012)

so how much sugar should be used for 2 liters?


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## malignant (Jul 6, 2012)

i use 4 table spoons per gallon of molasses


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## C3Pgro (Jul 18, 2012)

I have subculture-b, I was totally oblivious that there was a subculture-m. Can anyone give me the name of a good all in one inoculate?


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## Kalyx (Jul 20, 2012)

GreenGro, OregonismXL, Great White, there are many, many, choose one with the highest diversity of microbes, opt for whole spores over propagules if you can, and they can get pricey so remember they do reproduce in the root zone. I also doubt that the liquid ones can stay viable in liquid form on the shelf forever. I think GH messed up with separating the B and M for user friendlyness. However it does show that they understand the bacteria can dominate too much with a simultaneous inoculation. GH says to basically give the M a (three week or so? been awhile since I used it) head start before the B gets a chance at colonizing every niche. The GH stuff rocks out tho, 1 week and you will be able to transplant up again if I remember right. IMO M/B is pricey but you get good benefits for the $.


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## 2easy (Jul 20, 2012)

Ohsogreen said:


> .
> Chookface..... Yes, Sub-Culture is a decent amendment. I've noticed they now sell it in a Myco fungi only mix & a Good Bacteria only mix. Hmmmm......
> .
> GH sures knows how to make a buck. They break everything down to lot's of parts - so they can make lot's of dough - selling you all the parts.
> ...


yo ohso lol... 
mycos are great not going to deny that but you did say something which upset me a little.

"GH sures knows how to make a buck. They break everything down to lot's of parts - so they can make lot's of dough - selling you all the parts."

this is actually not true of gh at all. look at there product range. flora nova. one bottle for grow one for bloom... no more 2 or 3 part formulas and its cheap and works great.
floralicious plus. this is like a super additive. it has everything, kelp sea weed, high carb proteins humic plus just about everything else that would come in about ten bottles from other companies.

same with florablend its a vegan tea and has many components liek being a zyme etc that would be broken down to 2-3 bottles by other companies.

and koolbloom for flower. other companies have 2 or 3 bloom boosters for different stages and none of them seem to work quite as well as the ol kool bloom.

i love my gh, plus its mostly organic even the flora nova is a organic synthetic mix

im sure if they split the 2 they have there reasons.


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## Kalyx (Jul 21, 2012)

GH is legit IMO. Totally agreed that Floralicious plus is an awesome super concentrated organic all in one. To me they have a product for everyone, full spectrum if you will, except 100% organic folks. That is what I am waiting for, but I am not holding my breath. Like many of us on the organic threads I still use bottled products but have learned that they are not necessary and am working towards true 100% living organics. Gardening with meals, AACT(microbes), molasses, and mycos is simple, cheap and effective.

Anyway back to my GH tangent... Their spectrum goes from cheap simple 3 part synth Flora Series all the way to GO. GO is not 100% organic (synth micros and probably chelation) although the line is called General "Organics" (General Organics-based would have been more accurate IMO). So its not 100% organic and to add more confusion they market it as vegan (which it is except for BioMarine, but so is their synth stuff). To me I could care less if nutes are vegan unless we are talking about actual veganics = BOTH plant based AND 100% organic which some do strive for and is a legit sub-realm of true living organics. The GO marketing is my main diss on GH. 

PS I did a side by side with subs agent orange GO vs AACT and living organic tea yielded more and tasted better IMO. Pics are posted on here in a few threads.

That said they are a company based in canna-mecca Cali and now GH Europe has research greenhouses in all the Euro meccas. I trust that they do their research and break things down for soild reasons in addition to "making a buck". My recommendation is to do your own research and cross reference that with any company's advice, feed chart, articles, brochures etc. A little critical thinking can save you a lot of cash at the hype filled grow shops these days. I have used all of their 'organic' offerings and they are solid gardening products that grow great meds, I always pass on any company's synth offerings in my garden though.


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## knnthc93 (Jul 22, 2012)

What about cal-mag. Would cal mag kill mycros?


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## Kalyx (Jul 24, 2012)

Most cal mag products are synthetic. An organic one (GO, Biomin Ca, fulmag) would be a gentler option. Also dilute the product into your water before adding your myco product.


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## Zoltan44x (Jul 31, 2012)

Im using An base nutes (GMB) in coco. Can I use AN's piranha (Mycorrhiza) ? Or , would it be a waste ?


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## Growop101 (Aug 2, 2012)

How long can a compost tea (aerated with bubbler) sit stangnant and still for before it becomes harmfull to the plant? Can you refridgerate it?

Also does anyone know how long a nettle tea can sit for once finished? and again this nettle tea is anaerobic (stagnant) 

I would assume you want to use the teas as fast as possible, but i will have alot so i was wondering if i could save some for another time?


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## knnthc93 (Aug 2, 2012)

Growop101 said:


> How long can a compost tea (aerated with bubbler) sit stangnant and still for before it becomes harmfull to the plant? Can you refridgerate it?
> 
> Also does anyone know how long a nettle tea can sit for once finished? and again this nettle tea is anaerobic (stagnant)
> 
> I would assume you want to use the teas as fast as possible, but i will have alot so i was wondering if i could save some for another time?


If it smells bad then I wouldnt use it.


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## knnthc93 (Aug 2, 2012)

Tried super plant tonic, wasnt impressed. Greak white is a better product


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## illtoxic (Aug 4, 2012)

Does anyone have any updated information on how well Earth Ambrosia and Nectar works?


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## Growop101 (Aug 4, 2012)

But the nettle tea smells horrible, and its suposed to. Not all organik Nutes smell good, infact most to all organic things smell bad. 
but the compost tea smells good, almost sweet. the nettles smell like fuckin shit


knnthc93 said:


> If it smells bad then I wouldnt use it.


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## Chronikool (Aug 4, 2012)

knnthc93 said:


> What about cal-mag. Would cal mag kill mycros?



I use blackstrap molasses as a calcium, magnesium and iron supplement. Mixed in with a product called 'MYCORRCIN' which among other things, helps improves calcium uptake.


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## Kalyx (Aug 5, 2012)

> illtoxic
> Does anyone have any updated information on how well Earth Ambrosia and Nectar works?​


I have talked with the guy who makes it, Michael, while working for the wholesale distributor of his product. Thank god breaking that stank stuff down was not my job, the ambrosia was always totally hydrogen sulfide headache and all. The managers finally bought the guy a mask who did have to do it. Michael didn't believe me that fulvic acid was real or any different from humic. His product is highly variable batch to batch and I would not recommend it. He claims it is real stable because the organisms (nectar) and their food source (ambrosia) are separate. 

Michael developed his myco products as land rejuvinators for depleted NM soils and also for his native tree nursery 'trees that please', then started an organic lawn care company, and now sells his products retail as well. He boasts super high spore counts and they are matched by super high prices. His powdered pure mycos mycomaxima is $88 in its smallest size at a local shop here! Michael is quite a talker if you can get him on the phone. He is very academic and tries to use big words to impress and explain that his stuff is better than everyone else's.

I used it (EN/EA) in a demo garden in side by side tests vs cheaper and pricier innoculants and it never was near the top of the heap. The plants on the cheaper and pricier ones always looked better than the local smart guys product. I don't know what it is but it made chile plants grow more kinky and asymmetrical than the other innocs they were normal in all other aspects. It is not designed for container gardening per se. He tried to make a coco based mix that was a major flop when I tested it in containers too. It was like a cow patty on top from too much compost and lack of drainage. He never gave us a second batch to test. The guy and his products are not dedicated to our industry at all, in fact he used to love going through the shop and trash talking most of the products they sell as their bread and butter.


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## illtoxic (Aug 6, 2012)

Wow thank you for the very helpful post! I notice Great White is the thing around here.... I am guessing this stuff is some good stuff ey?


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## Kalyx (Aug 7, 2012)

GW is good. It has trichoderma fungi which are a good thing but can outcompete the other fungi in the inoc. The spore count and concentration is great.


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## Closetgardner (Aug 31, 2012)

ive just bought some myco fungi,can i top dress the plants that are already in their final pots and water it in??? or is it best used while transplanting?


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## blueJ (Sep 1, 2012)

If you're already flowering there won't be enough time for the mycorizae to develop, best done @ transplants and @ the root zone.

If you're going to "topdress" try making some holes to get the granules/powder down into the root zone & then water.


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## knnthc93 (Sep 3, 2012)

Should I even ph water when working with mykros or ph wait a second then add mykros?


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## OSG (Sep 19, 2012)

Knnthc93.... Glad to see my old thread is still in play. I like to add mine to chlorine free water in a five gallon bucket and bubble them overnight using a cheap aquarium air pump. That helps increase the beneficial bacteria count, hydrates the myco fungi, and stablilizes the pH. I only adjust pH right before use, if it's below 5.5 or above 6.4. I like the pH at 6.1, which is the sweet spot for soil, hydro and coco.
.
The product I use is Super Plant Tonic by Blue Moutain Organics. It's got both beneficial bacteria and fungi, with Azomite added. It works as well as higher priced brands, and the company that makes it, does fresh batches often. IME I've seen 10 to 15 % increases in my yields, since I started using it 5 years ago. It's the only thing that comes in a bottle, that I buy on a regular basis. It runs about $ 7 a bottle plus shipping, they sell it on Ebay.
.
Here's a girl I used it on, from the week 3 of veg, and half way through flowering...... Chopped her this morning.....
.


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## Rising Moon (Nov 4, 2012)

Myco Madness!!!



These are the roots of one of my outdoor girls, inoculated with Fungi Perfecti's MycoGrow for vegetables. Epic!


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## Justin5737 (Nov 15, 2012)

Great white and myco madness woot woot, especially awesome when transplanting.


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## rory420420 (Dec 2, 2012)

I used paul staments myco pack on my 1st big grow and it was amazing..I dipped clone roots in just a lil brown dust and put em in promix and used botanicare..1st harvest was over 6lbs...I since have use it all,went to the store and got an off brand we called "the sprinkles" and its done o.k. I guess..nothing like staments myco..now trying great white (free sample with an awesome big sticker  ) so ill see what it doo...but I have all my cards on paul stament...and I read this whole thread and noticed @5 references to him also...


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## ExtremeMetal43 (Dec 3, 2012)

I also use stamets' fungiperfecti mycogrow its the cheapest and has the most trich and bacteria. Hes not a weed dude hes a mushroom dude and knows his shit. Paul Stamets.


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## Dank Raptor (Jan 11, 2013)

mycogrow is top of the line. used that stuff a few years back. Just thought I would share with everyone what I have found because it is the best I have found and the best price. Earthjuice rooters mycorrhizae. for bacteria use biozeus. I have compared them all. Let me know if you find better.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jan 11, 2013)

Mykos is just fine. and cheap


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## Sparty82 (Jan 12, 2013)

Dank Raptor said:


> I have compared them all. Let me know if you find better.


I've had great luck with the kelp4less mycorrhiza products. Works great and is fairly priced.

Kelp4less just released feed charts for hydroponic growers. Everything is calculated for a 50 gallon reservoir. 

No more buying water with mystery nutrients in it!!


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## Oldcheesekush (Jan 27, 2013)

Any ideas what I have here?


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## Dank Raptor (Jan 30, 2013)

I dont know but if it starts bruising blue you might wanna buy some more of that brand soil.


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## mushead (Feb 5, 2013)

is there a specific reason why chemical(Mineral/salt w.e) based nutes kill the myco off? i grow organically but i thought that was interesting anyway.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 5, 2013)

mushead said:


> is there a specific reason why chemical(Mineral/salt w.e) based nutes kill the myco off? i grow organically but i thought that was interesting anyway.


High amounts of Phosphorous is all you really need to worry about IMO. I run chem ferts and tons of Mykos. No problems.


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## Rrog (Feb 7, 2013)

Lucius Vorenus said:


> I run chem ferts and tons of Mykos. No problems.


Curious if you're running chem, why worry about microbes? They won't interact with the plant on any normal level. Seems like an added burden in this instance.


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## King Cobra (Feb 8, 2013)

Yeah..that's a good point actually!!


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## Rrog (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm not knocking chem ferts or hydro. To each his own. I just see a lot of growers that supply chem ferts in whatever medium, then want to feel organic by dumping microbes. Maybe like adding goldfish to a punch bowl. The fish survives for a little while, but punch isn't the natural environment, and so they die.

If the microbes don't have the close reciprocal relationship with the plant, the microbes largely go away, or at best, just float around. By adding high concentrations of liquid nutes, you have broken this relationship, and while the plant survives, it gets no protection from predation and disease that the microbes offer.


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## TrynaGroSumShyt (Feb 8, 2013)

Chemical ferts contain salts that dry out Myco's and Beneficial Organisms. Mixing the two is pointless. The salt buildup in the soil will kill them off as well as the initial feeding. Don't add myco to your organic tea's either or atleast during brewing.


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## Rrog (Feb 8, 2013)

Again, if a guy wants to grow in hydro- groovy! Enjoy it! Save some time and effort and forget the microbes, though.


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## buckaroo bonzai (Feb 16, 2013)

Oldcheesekush said:


> Any ideas what I have here? View attachment 2498718


mycillium--


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## Cann (Feb 17, 2013)

not *mycelium*, those are baby fungal fruits (sporocarps), aka mushrooms. Mycelium is the vegetative stage of fungal growth, what you are seeing in that picture is many sporocarps being produced


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## Sunnyvale (Feb 20, 2013)

Nice link


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## teoborg (Mar 7, 2013)

Is this any good? It has a very cheap price and I was wondering if its any effective at all..Any suggestions?

http://rootgrow.co.uk/shop/rhs-rootgrow-360g.html


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## teoborg (Mar 10, 2013)

I guess none is visiting this thread any more...


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## esof (Apr 1, 2013)

"Rootgrow contains a blend of both arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi and ectomycorrhizal fungi. Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi are the oldest and colonise plant roots by penetrating the cells. Ectomycorrhizal fungi form a sheath or mantle over the plant root, these fungi colonise approximately 10% of plant families and are most associated with long lived trees such as Oak and Pine." - FAQ

If you're growing annuals you'll definitely want to stick with the arbuscular mycorrhiza or 'endomycorrhiza' such as glomus intraradices or really, any from the genus 'glomus'. This particular product also contains ectomycorrhizals which are used primarily for shrubs and trees and various perennials. This product is a balanced fungal inoculate. Unfortunately, I'm not able to find information pertaining to the ratio of endo- to ecto- in this product nor the ratio of fungal spores to the clay packing/delivery method this company employs. Generally, you'll want as many fungal spores by weight as you can achieve as the delivery agents these companies employ may interfere with the soil balance you've been so carefully maintaining. I'm sure you could call the company or zip them an e:mail for these ratios. Take care.


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## AliCakes (Apr 17, 2013)

Micro fungi are wonderful. In fact my favorite new bug killer is a fungal product - Botanigard (as long as it stays away from my worm bin). But remember that we want to keep the micro fungal and bacterial colonies in equilibrium. Fungi generally bring the soil pH up and bacteria generally fix nitrogen into nitrates, bringing it down. Both are wonderful, but they need to be kept in check by one another.


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## Rrog (Apr 17, 2013)

The plant generally dictates the bacterial / fungal types and relative ratios. We don't determine this. If you dumped a great deal of fungus in a soil with MJ, in a week or two, the soil will become bacterially dominant, which is what MJ and other grasses prefer.


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## Sincerely420 (Apr 22, 2013)

http://www.mycorrhiza.com/index.php?cid=60


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## AliCakes (Jun 13, 2013)

Rrog said:


> The plant generally dictates the bacterial / fungal types and relative ratios. We don't determine this. If you dumped a great deal of fungus in a soil with MJ, in a week or two, the soil will become bacterially dominant, which is what MJ and other grasses prefer.


While I don't disagree that colonies will thrive/die off to regulate themselves to the appropriate ratios, I am unsure just how quickly the colonies come to an equilibrium. To me, that would depend on too many environmental factors to give any actual estimate. 
I don't mention this for people who inoculate soils a few times a grow, but rather, for those who want to use mycos at every watering/feeding. A local friend did not understand this and accidentally killed some beautiful six foot tall trees more than half way through budding recently. When he chopped them down, he finally measured the pH of his soil. The constant myco additions had raised the pH of his soil to over 9.0.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jun 13, 2013)

AliCakes said:


> While I don't disagree that colonies will thrive/die off to regulate themselves to the appropriate ratios, I am unsure just how quickly the colonies come to an equilibrium. To me, that would depend on too many environmental factors to give any actual estimate.
> I don't mention this for people who inoculate soils a few times a grow, but rather, for those who want to use mycos at every watering/feeding. A local friend did not understand this and accidentally killed some beautiful six foot tall trees more than half way through budding recently. When he chopped them down, he finally measured the pH of his soil. The constant myco additions had raised the pH of his soil to over 9.0.


Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have read that it is best to stop adding mycor right close to flowering or maybe just a week into, as once a colony has been established say early on in the veg stage, they will have done most of the good they are gonna do by 3 weeks into flower and once the blooming nutes hit, the higher P and K seems to harm or wipe them out or at least they don't like it from what I have read.
Looking for some feedback for sure, cause them little buggers can be expensive, in more ways than one.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## st0wandgrow (Jun 14, 2013)

ASMALLVOICE said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have read that it is best to stop adding mycor right close to flowering or maybe just a week into, as once a colony has been established say early on in the veg stage, they will have done most of the good they are gonna do by 3 weeks into flower and once the blooming nutes hit, the higher P and K seems to harm or wipe them out or at least they don't like it from what I have read.
> Looking for some feedback for sure, cause them little buggers can be expensive, in more ways than one.
> 
> Peace and Great Grows
> ...


They're applied to the root zone during transplant. I can't imagine many scenarios where you'd be transplanting during your flowering cycle, so I suppose what you're saying is correct. There would be no good reason to add mycorrhizae fungi after veg.


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## Organic Toker (Jul 19, 2013)

Nice post 

You should try to get some Trichoderma (doesn't matter which species, Harzianum is better though) for enriching the soil as well as fighting pathogenic bad bad fungi 

Beauveria, Verticillium and Metarrhiza can ward off insect pests, spray em on you leaves. The best eco-friendly thing is to put some vermi products (make your own vermicompost) and give your plants much love. These organic dudes will keep it green all the way!

eace:


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## Organic Toker (Jul 19, 2013)

ASMALLVOICE said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have read that it is best to stop adding mycor right close to flowering or maybe just a week into, as once a colony has been established say early on in the veg stage, they will have done most of the good they are gonna do by 3 weeks into flower and once the blooming nutes hit, the higher P and K seems to harm or wipe them out or at least they don't like it from what I have read.
> Looking for some feedback for sure, cause them little buggers can be expensive, in more ways than one.
> 
> Peace and Great Grows
> ...



True indeed, you can reduce the expense by culturing your mycors again into the next soil you are going to grow after you harvest. Am not sure about the blooming nutes though, am still a noob grower. But I know my microbes  Add the mycors when you are transplanting to give your plant the most nutrient absorption till bud development. I have to experiment with the flowering phase (just started growing). I work in a bio-fertilizer company so the perks of my job gave me all the beneficial microbes I need. Also keep a check of your pH as Allcakes said. 

Tryina help with what I know. Feel free to correct me if am wrong


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## AliCakes (Jul 19, 2013)

ASMALLVOICE said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have read that it is best to stop adding mycor right close to flowering or maybe just a week into, as once a colony has been established say early on in the veg stage, they will have done most of the good they are gonna do by 3 weeks into flower and once the blooming nutes hit, the higher P and K seems to harm or wipe them out or at least they don't like it from what I have read.
> Looking for some feedback for sure, cause them little buggers can be expensive, in more ways than one.
> 
> Peace and Great Grows
> ...


I add mycos at each transplant. That's it. But the friend was running some products from a company called Growers secret. The directions gave amounts to use "when needed" and the guys at the grow shop told him to use it once a week. Through veg his plants grew twice as fast as mine did. And by the time he killed them the trunks were almost as big around as my wrists are. Granted my girlie wrists are smaller than some of yours. 

Roots do stop growing vigorously be the 3rd week of flower, but the same thing could happen to your plants if you vegged longer. All I was saying is that too much of a good thing is bad. I also tend to water with a bacteria dominated IMO culture when I add mycos. Mycos are awesome, but what is even better is a soil with highly diversified micro life.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jul 21, 2013)

So whats the verdict on whether or not Chemical nutes kill off the Fungi?


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## chibzilla (Jul 29, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I made my own Mycorrhiza...

I had an old aquarium tank lined with rocks on the bottom, then filled the top with compost from outside. 

Within a week I saw white fungi growing along the sides of the tank, exactly what this mycorrhiza stuff looks like!

I wasn't educated on the subject at all so I actually re potted thinking that the fungi was going to harm my plant, Now looking back I'm so stupid to have not done some research before repotting...

My plant could be double the size it is now... Or it could have been bad fungi but I kind of doubt it...


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## BSD0621 (Aug 19, 2013)

Forgot to mention the aid the plant in becoming drought resistant.. Good for area's where there will be lack of water


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## BSD0621 (Aug 19, 2013)

And molasses with kick micro in over drive!


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## OneStonedPony (Sep 30, 2013)

It's cool to see this old thread made into a sticky. When I first started growing organically, it was one of the first ones I read. 
True living organics are the only way to grow IMHO.


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## Someacdude (Sep 30, 2013)

Great info, thank you


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Oct 17, 2013)

since things naturally multiply under good conditions and i wanna save money can someone post the way of cultivating it? or multiplying it... dont you use bran or something? and i imagine molasses is involved... or treacle, here.


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## st0wandgrow (Oct 17, 2013)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> since things naturally multiply under good conditions and i wanna save money can someone post the way of cultivating it? or multiplying it... dont you use bran or something? and i imagine molasses is involved... or treacle, here.



*Recipes*;

Through a plethora of trial and error brewing with a dissolved oxygen meter at hand we determined that a pretty reliable volume of [vermi]compost to use is 2.38% by volume of water used up to around a 250 gallon brewer.

So if you have 5 gallons you multiply that by 2.38% to get the amount of [vermi]compost to use. Then you can go to; http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm and convert it into any unit of measure which is convenient. In my opinion measuring [vermi]compost by weight is inaccurate because of varying moisture content.

Anyway to proceed we have;

5 x 2.38% = 0.119 of a gallon = 0.476 of a quart = 0.450 of a liter 
= 450.5 milliliters [450 rounded] = 1.904 cups [2 cups rounded] - Your choice

Likewise with the use of black strap molasses, a percentage of 0.50% is a good median amount to use.

These two ingredients, perhaps surprisingly, comprise the total of inputs in most of our brews these days. This simple recipe, if using an efficient ACT maker and good quality [vermi]compost results in a microbial population made up of the important three groups. This is the only recipe used to date, in all the videos on my Youtube channel &#8216;Microbe Organics&#8217;

To get these three groups the ACT maker should be run for 36 to 42 hours. The ideal temperature range is 65 to 72 Fahrenheit (18 to 22 Celsius), however a little cooler or warmer is okay. I&#8217;ve had pretty equivalent results with ambient temperatures around 100 F (38 C) and as cool as 50 F (10 C).

To spill a small secret, I&#8217;ve been pre-feeding or pre-activating [vermi]compost which is not so fresh by mixing in a small amount of wheat bran (livestock store or bulk foods department grocery store) and moistening with very diluted black strap molasses, loosely covered with cloth or paper towel 24 hours ahead of brew. (approximate ratios, wheat bran 1:30 [vermi]compost & BSM 1:300 water).

This has, so far resulted in (most of the time) attaining the desired microbial population at 24 hours brew time rather than the usual 36 to 42 hours.

Now for some of my *other recipes*;

A recipe for a balanced nutrient cycling ACT which many growers claim to have great success with is;

[vermi]compost &#8211; 2.38% 

unsulphured pure black strap molasses - 0.50% [but you can use a maximum 0.75%] 

fish hydrolysate (high quality) - 0.063% 
Do not use chemically deodorized liquid fish!

kelp meal - 0.25% max. [Less is more!] 
NOTE: This is a maximum amount of kelp and you can experiment using less. This is using regular grade kelp meal for livestock. If you have soluble kelp, I recommend using smaller amounts. As noted earlier kelp meal can initially delay bacterial multiplication and fungal growth in ACT.

soft rock phosphate granules/powder - 0.063% Consider this optional. In the past 2 years I&#8217;ve become more aware of the possibility of polonium 210 and lead content in soft rock phosphate which is radioactive. This varies depending on how it was mined and where. If you wish to use this in ACT check all available data. Look for heavy metal testing
We grind up the granules into a powder with a coffee grinder

The brew time should average around 36 hours and no longer than 48 hours. If you have a microscope then stop when the microbes desired are observed. Otherwise smell for the foodstocks being used up, possible rank odor (indicating anaerobes) and a positive earthy or mushroom-like aroma.

*Fungal Brew*;
If you want a brew which is more fungal increase the amount of fish hydrolysate to around 0.19% and you may wish to decrease the amount of molasses used so there is not a foodstock overload. Include a pinch of alfalfa meal, not using more than 0.25%. It is important to not overload a brew with foodstocks, otherwise you can easily compromise the dissolved oxygen capacity of the unit. Most importantly discontinue brewing around 18 to 20 hours. Of course if you have a microscope you can judge that for yourself.
Also, if you do not have fungi in your [vermi]compost, you won&#8217;t have it magically appear in your ACT.


http://microbeorganics.com/


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## FullOfMekraw (Oct 20, 2013)

This is my first post here so hello everyone.. I recently got turned on to Kelp4less.com They have a great myco mix. i got 4 ounces for 20 dollars and it is pure endo/ecto myco+ Trichoderma+ Beneficial bacteria there is something like 38 different species in the mix. No humic or fulvic acid weighing down the mix. So its all pure good shit!


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## BluJayz (Oct 26, 2013)

Edit: wrong post was reading too many at same time.


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## DANKSWAG (Oct 27, 2013)

I've been reviewing my notes on making my own LAB Lacto Acid Bacillus which is the base for EM1. 
Microbes cultivated and used for protecting plants from pathogens and digest nutrients in the soil to enhance growth. 

*Cultivaing bacterica *
1 cup whole grain rice
2 cups h20 sans chloride 
Shake well store in closed container that has equal air space to material volume
let set 3-5 days with top covered with paper towel room temp sans uv rays
with syringe remove 7oz clear serum from infected mixture

*Separating bacteria LAB from hood of every bacteria from a-z
*Place 7oz bacterial serum into container with 70oz of whole milk raw is possible any well do
Let set one week (7 days) as with the rice water mixture above
Cheese will form on top remove feed to animals or add to compost
remaining is your LAB separated out for use as you see fit. Approximate 1000ml 1 liter
That's freaking easy you now have your very own hard working great for everything *BACILLUS
*
*Storage
*You can keep in airtight container in fridge up to 3 years, goes dormant in one.
Or add equal parts molasses to stabilize and store for up to 3 years cool room temp.
When adding molasses stir well this now becomes 2 liters or 2000ml stabilized Bacillus




And I am being told this lacks additional needed strains and species compared to the following: 


"You are creating One form of Bacilius bacteria with the LAB.

There are 7 different strains of 4 different species of Bacilius in P3."




http://www.prolificplantprobiotic.com/
Product Claims to have:




_*Bacillus Subtilis*
- Well known cattle feed ingredient
- Spores are viable for decades; common soil inoculant: frees up nutrients from food sources
- Symbiotic with roots as a colonizer; antagonistic to pathogens
*Bacillus Licheniformis*
- Found in soil and on bird feathers
- Protease producer (especially breaks down feathers)
- Biological &#8220;laundry detergent&#8221;
- Adapts well to alkaline areas
*Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens*
- Source of the BamH1 restrictive enzyme (stifles virus and pathogens)
- Source of Subtilisin, an organic &#8220;laundry detergent&#8221;
- Causes starch hydrolysis of green plants
- Produces Barnase, an antibiotic protein
*Bacillus Pumilis*
- Anti-fungal
- Colonizes roots to prevent fungus formation
- Highly stress resistant
All are considered &#8220;rhizobacteria&#8221; for they breakdown atmospheric nitrogen into a compound easy to uptake by plants.
*Summary of P[SUP]3 [/SUP]Prolific Plant Probiotic&#8482;*

*One dose (1 inch of pellets) contains:* 

600+ million CFUs of Bacillus microbes
Micronutrient spectrum package usually depleted from soil
Amino acids spectrum package critical for plant life
Delivered on a carrier of plant roughage
Contains seven strains from the above mentioned four Bacillus species


_






Is there anyway to add these different missing strains, if needed and really missing? Won't I get a better healthier spectrum of beneficial bacteria by using this homemade LAB in composting which will introduce other strains of bacteria in which LAB will help influence the growth of other beneficial bacteria that could ultimately provide a soil web that would not need to have a product like P3 added?​


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## DANKSWAG (Oct 30, 2013)

illtoxic said:


> Does anyone have any updated information on how well Earth Ambrosia and Nectar works?


I could be wrong, but it appears to be an Myco Apply / EM1 product with a food starter (molasses). You'd be better off just purchasing EM1 as a concentrated serum and then add equal parts molasses when ready to active and utilize in a tea or other applications. You can also make your own EM1 with Rice, H20 -sans chloride, Milk (Two step process for EM1 concentrate) and Molasses which activates it.


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## DANKSWAG (Oct 31, 2013)

Hey Stowngrow,

Was hoping to see you weigh in on this, however I believe Rrog addressed for me on another thread. 
I can't wait to fully incorporate that is employ as many microbeasties I can to work for me, no money but all the food they can eat and a place to hang out and crash. 

I will be share to post results!


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## DANKSWAG (Nov 9, 2013)

FYI...

GOOD READ...

http://www.parco1.com/text/mycorrhiza/Mycorrhiza Primer.pdf


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## Farmer's Hat (Dec 4, 2013)

DANKSWAG said:


> FYI...
> 
> GOOD READ...
> 
> http://www.parco1.com/text/mycorrhiza/Mycorrhiza Primer.pdf


A good read indeed. Is there a thread with info on how to make your own organic root enhancing brew? Something that works similar to rapid start?


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## DANKSWAG (Dec 12, 2013)

Farmer's Hat said:


> A good read indeed. Is there a thread with info on how to make your own organic root enhancing brew? Something that works similar to rapid start?


Yeah that would be aloe, fulvic acid and silica. The formula I don't have in front of me...

DankSwag


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## foreverflyhi (Dec 13, 2013)

I think this thread would be alot MORE informative if we had pictures of diffrent fruitig bodies of mychorizzal.
and maybe Some BIM gathering advise?


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## DANKSWAG (Jan 3, 2014)

foreverflyhi said:


> I think this thread would be alot MORE informative if we had pictures of diffrent fruitig bodies of mychorizzal.
> and maybe Some BIM gathering advise?


it would we can either source them from members on RIU or scour the internet for them?

DankSwag


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## bluebubble (Jan 10, 2014)

myco's do work with salt nutrients, i have seen coco and promix grows and you can clearly see the roots are colonized! also i added worm tea to my dwc with brown roots and new white roots came and filled the bucket i added it with the nutrients at full stength 1.2 ec now i add the tea at 2 cups at every add back or few days, i add aquasheild and zho while brewing the tea i dont beleive the tea kills the myco powder, these 2 ideas seem to be a myth.


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## OneStonedPony (Feb 1, 2014)

That ZHO is pretty good, but I prefer Super Plant Tonic from BMO. It's got beneficial bacteria and fungi in it. In soil, peat or coco, by the time I finish a grow, the roots and fungi have completely maxed out in my 3 gallon smart pots. I think it's better than the other brands I've used, because it's got azomite (trace minerals) in it. That really seems to up the yield on everything I grown using it so far. Plus since I started using it, I recycle all my soil, peat or coco, and the resuls of each grow have just gotten better. Which is cool, because I'm spending less money on growing medium, and getting better buds. True living organics rock !


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## May11th (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm having killer results thanks to mycos. I am pretty happy with my success with roots oregonism but going to try out great white now. I use aloe and myco supplement for clones , then I usually have left over brews going which usually have alfalfa meal, kelp meal, humic acid, ewc, I get 85% success rates in clones without effort, I pick my faves and go from there. 

Make your own teas and soils and you'll have a huge Web of fungal growth after cooking for 4 months. Kickass organics


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## hyroot (Feb 2, 2014)

everything in oreganism, great white, and humic acid is in compost and worm castings. save your money... if you use companion crops like clover or bahia grass all that shit will form beneath the surface from the companion crops too.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 2, 2014)

May11th said:


> I'm having killer results thanks to mycos. I am pretty happy with my success with roots oregonism but going to try out great white now. I use aloe and myco supplement for clones , then I usually have left over brews going which usually have alfalfa meal, kelp meal, humic acid, ewc, I get 85% success rates in clones without effort, I pick my faves and go from there.
> 
> Make your own teas and soils and you'll have a huge Web of fungal growth after cooking for 4 months. Kickass organics


Mycos is all you need


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## Poe Kerbuddons (Feb 5, 2014)

So has anyone ever used or heard of anyone using myco when cooking up a super soil?


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## DANKSWAG (Feb 5, 2014)

Poe Kerbuddons said:


> So has anyone ever used or heard of anyone using myco when cooking up a super soil?


After the soil has cook...

Fungi in new soil introduced after the soil is cooked, when PH levels out. It is primarily added to the roots of a transplant into new soil.
Also granular is used to water with a few weeks after transfer. 

With ROLS once a soil web is goes through a growing cycle and fungi is established in soil with plant roots, fungi soil web is preserved by cutting stalk right at soil line leaving roots in container, then amending with cover crop and or top dress after adding new transplant which will established relationship with existing soil web and get a jump start from being in soil where there is already symbiotic relationship between fungi and soil.

Fungi need soil with plants to survive not sure how long one can wait to replant new transplant in soil after mature plant is cut, for in time the roots will die while cover crop grows to fix nitrogen and fungi may dwindle in numbers for there is no live plant to establish symbiotic relationship with.


DankSwag


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## jebcorlis (Feb 10, 2014)

Try gogo juice people


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## Lucius Vorenus (Feb 11, 2014)

All you need is Subculture B from General Hydro. It literally has everything


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## BullyManAz (Feb 11, 2014)

Are mycos ok in flowering?


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## foreverflyhi (Feb 12, 2014)

Mycos are meant to be innoculated long before flower, but yes its ok durig flowerig, although a waste of cash in my opinion, assuming ur not going to recylcle


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## forever young (Feb 22, 2014)

I am in the process of making a tea from my runoff and alfalfa meal and molasses and mycorrhizae and Iput a oxygen stone in it add a gal of RO water and it has bubbles and is foamy after only two hours is that normal?


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## SpicySativa (Mar 25, 2014)

forever young said:


> I am in the process of making a tea from my runoff and alfalfa meal and molasses and mycorrhizae and Iput a oxygen stone in it add a gal of RO water and it has bubbles and is foamy after only two hours is that normal?


It is not "normal" to make a "tea" from your runoff. It IS normal for a tea to froth. Making a tea from your runoff is kindof counterintuitive. Whatever organisms and nutrients are present in your runoff are (obviously) already present in your soil. 

And don't add the mycorrhizal product to your tea... I seriously feel like a broken record I say this so often... The mycorrhizal fungi get dusted onto your roots at each transplant (especially early in the plant's life). Anything other than this is pretty much just wasting your money. MYCORRHIZAL FUNGI NEED DIRECT CONTACT WITH ROOTS IN ORDER TO GERMINATE AND GROW. They do not germinate or grow in tea; they become food for the things that DO grow in the tea.


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## Banana444 (Apr 30, 2014)

How well do mykos survive in recycled soil?


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## st0wandgrow (May 1, 2014)

Banana444 said:


> How well do mykos survive in recycled soil?



I think that's the main benefit to no-till. You are leaving the root system, and all of the micro-life in tact which the next plant you put in there will plug right in to. Or at least that's the theory. If you pull the entire root system out, take the remaining soil and re amend you are somewhat starting over.


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## S_Caldwell (May 1, 2014)

Lots of helpful info. in here. Thanks all! I'm a new grower and am trying to learn all that I can, quickly. During my research I found this video on mycorrhizae and thought I'd share...


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## Banana444 (May 1, 2014)

I wonder how well they survive and for how long then or if they go dormant. I use promix with mykos already in it, wonder ifwhen I cook soil if it affecy the mykos mixed in. I am looking to get some powdered mycos to sprinkle on transplants, have only tried stump tea so far and heard other brands were a lot better.


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## S_Caldwell (May 5, 2014)

Hey bananas444, I'm a new grower and was curious why you would need to add more myco if you're already using the PRO-MIX with myco in it? I read on the website that you don't need to add anything to it so I was just curious.


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## Banana444 (May 5, 2014)

Not all myco products are created equal. They have different types of mycos. And the most effective method of inocculation of the rhyzosphere is dirrect contact by sprinkling, and if you do a soil drench innoculation, it may or may not be successful. Along with the fact that not all mycos work the same with different plants and there are some plants mycorisa has no effect on. I have been happy with the promix, but I would love to know what specific mycos are best for canna and use those. I will try a few of the products.


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## S_Caldwell (May 6, 2014)

Got it! Thanks  That makes sense. I'd be interested in hearing what you find out about the best myco for cannabis.


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## Bugeye (May 7, 2014)

Was thumbing through Teaming with Microbes this afternoon and it is noted on p. 151 that myco fungi are pretty much wiped out when an organic fertilizer has an NPK with any phosphorous value higher than a 10. 

Sorry if I missed this tidbit in someone else's link, didn't make through them all reading the thread.


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## Donvega11 (May 19, 2014)

A friend of mine and I got our medical permits at the same time. We used the same seed stock. Our set ups were similar, the only major difference was I used a couple myco products on a soil I mixed while he used a store bought organic potting soil and some 1-1-1 liquid fert.

5 weeks in my plants were healthy while his were barely holding themselves up. We transplanted his plants to the same soil mix I had made in within in a day there was a huge noticeable difference in the plants. The myco treatements I used had trace minerals and some organic fert, so who knows what played the biggest roll, but it was cheap and hasn't hurt anything. One was Dr Earth and the other was Organic Plant Magic


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## keysareme (Jun 2, 2014)

This guy, was talking about Mycorrhiza in 2008? yea!


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## dababydroman (Jun 5, 2014)

and can I substitute karol corn syrup for molasses?


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## Banana444 (Jun 10, 2014)

Xtreme gardening. Com has got some good mycos and other bennies for the right price. Free sampler pack.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 13, 2014)

I use mykos and great white, I believe it helps plants extend their roots "reach" so itt can pull nutrients that are far away from the roots. also the beneficial bacteria and mycro can defend youre plants against pests and if done correctly the plant can actually adjusts its own ph to whatever it wants. if correctly done. you can also establish a rhizosphere if I spelt that correctly which can only be obtained in organics.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 13, 2014)

S_Caldwell said:


> Lots of helpful info. in here. Thanks all! I'm a new grower and am trying to learn all that I can, quickly. During my research I found this video on mycorrhizae and thought I'd share...


this is brilluiant, lol I didn't no madern marvels made that episode lol, that show is excessiviely helpful


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 13, 2014)

can this be added to vermiculture?


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## 420Hazza (Jun 18, 2014)

thelastpirate said:


> Thanx for bumping this thread. There must be something wrong with the search function, 'cuz when I use it, I get alot of worthless, unrelated shit. I have been interested in mycorrhizae for a couple of months now, but could find very little here on RIU.
> Has anyone ever tried BioTone starter Plus? I have already mixed the soil for this next grow, so it's probably a moot point, but I'm interested in any first hand knowledge opinions as to it's efficacy.
> My reason for going with the BioTone over the other product with mycorrhizae only was the fact that it contained the other trace minerals (purportedly organic) as well.
> I _FINALLY_ found a local source for bat guano and worm castings!!!! Joy!!! It's kinda funny when you start asking Q's about the organic ferts like guano, worm castings, kelp etc. I'm pretty sure that they know whats up. Not a whole lot of people (veggie growers) who go to this nursery know much about mycorrhizae or guano. Careful how much you let slip. I got a _"knowing look"_ from the sales clerk. But it's all good, I'm pretty sure she smokes too!


Your totally right, I'm preparing for my second proper grow, with mostly organics nutes I'll be using my own wormcast around 10l right now increasing each week  defo will use myco thinking about great white or humboldt white widow any one tried them ?


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## Pattahabi (Jun 18, 2014)

420Hazza said:


> Your totally right, I'm preparing for my second proper grow, with mostly organics nutes I'll be using my own wormcast around 10l right now increasing each week  defo will use myco thinking about great white or humboldt white widow any one tried them ?


Do not use great white. Make sure your mykos product does not contain trichaderma spores. I use xtreme gardening's mykos. It's a straight glomus intraradices.



radicaldank42 said:


> can this be added to vermiculture?


It can, but it would be expensive worm/microbe food. Better off dusting the roots at transplant.


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## MoonAndStarz (Jun 25, 2014)

S_Caldwell said:


> Lots of helpful info. in here. Thanks all! I'm a new grower and am trying to learn all that I can, quickly. During my research I found this video on mycorrhizae and thought I'd share...


I see the video you posted is made by Pro Mix. It reminded me that they also have a mycorrhizal inoculant called PRO-MIX PUR that I've used in the past, you might want to check out if you're a fan of their products.


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## anzohaze (Jul 17, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> Do not use great white. Make sure your mykos product does not contain trichaderma spores. I use xtreme gardening's mykos.


Why shoukd you not use trichoderma


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## Pattahabi (Jul 17, 2014)

anzohaze said:


> Why shoukd you not use trichoderma


It's not that you shouldn't use Trichoderma, but know that the spores are cheap. This is why they are packed in with mycorrhizae, and when applied together it inhibits the mycorrhizal colonization of the root tip.

P-


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## anzohaze (Jul 17, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> It's not that you shouldn't use Trichoderma, but know that the spores are cheap. This is why they are packed in with mycorrhizae, and when applied together it inhibits the mycorrhizal colonization of the root tip.
> 
> P-


Ok so its good to use .... what are the better brands or ones you have experimented with i was looking at kelp 4 less endo/ecto with innoculants. Have you heard or tried them or q brand you woukd recommend i think like great white and such are over priced since there more of a big name etc


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## Pattahabi (Jul 17, 2014)

anzohaze said:


> Ok so its good to use .... what are the better brands or ones you have experimented with i was looking at kelp 4 less endo/ecto with innoculants. Have you heard or tried them or q brand you woukd recommend i think like great white and such are over priced since there more of a big name etc


You are absolutely correct, great white is way overpriced. I have used great white (junk), Zho (not bad), Mykos from xtreme gardening which I really like and I am currently using. Nothing fancy, just straight mycorrhiza intraradices.

P-



> *Abstract*
> The inoculation of maize plants with spores of _G. mosseae_ decreased the populations of the saprophytic fungi _Trichoderma koningii_ and _Fusarium solani_. However, _F. solani_ had no effect on mycorrhizal development, *whereas G. mosseae was inhibited in its extramatrical stage by T. koningii.*
> 
> Germinated spores of _G. mosseae_ did not affect growth of the saprophytic fungi on water-agar. _T. koningii_ inhibited the germination, but not mycelial development of _G. mosseae_; this inhibition was independent of the change in pH of the medium. _F. solani_ did not inhibit germination of _G. mosseae_ spores, and endophyte hyphal development was markedly stimulated. The influence of soluble and volatile substances produced by the saprophytic fungi on these effects is discussed.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0038071794902194


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## anzohaze (Jul 18, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> You are absolutely correct, great white is way overpriced. I have used great white (junk), Zho (not bad), Mykos from xtreme gardening which I really like and I am currently using. Nothing fancy, just straight mycorrhiza intraradices.
> 
> P-
> 
> ...


I was looking at extreme gardening on amazon but the reviews were Lot of outdated etc so i was skeptical but thanks ill go ahead ajd get some and try it


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## CarpeNocturnum (Jul 27, 2014)

Just tried Myke, was impressed by the explosion of growth shortly thereafter


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## cannakis (Aug 23, 2014)

h


CarpeNocturnum said:


> Just tried Myke, was impressed by the explosion of growth shortly thereafter


haha i know I Am getting so excited for what is to come from mychos!


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## Dr.Pecker (Aug 23, 2014)

I think great white is fine. I use half teaspoon per gallon of water and only use it once after transplant paid 35$ for a jar a year and a half ago still have some.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Sep 2, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> They're applied to the root zone during transplant. I can't imagine many scenarios where you'd be transplanting during your flowering cycle, so I suppose what you're saying is correct. There would be no good reason to add mycorrhizae fungi after veg.


I don't have much room in my vegg chamber.....so I go party cup > 1 or 2 gallon....when they outgrow vegg chamber they go into the flower chamber where after a week or so they go into their final 3 or 5 gallon pot......You think I should bother with the mychorrihizae on that final transplant at all ?


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## st0wandgrow (Sep 2, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> I don't have much room in my vegg chamber.....so I go party cup > 1 or 2 gallon....when they outgrow vegg chamber they go into the flower chamber where after a week or so they go into their final 3 or 5 gallon pot......You think I should bother with the mychorrihizae on that final transplant at all ?



I would say it would be worth while if you are running a no-till and you're going to stick another clone into that same bucket, which will plug right in to that root zone and fungal network. If not, I don't see the product being much benefit. Not enough time for it to penetrate the roots and the hyphae to branch out IMO.

That's my best guess SC. It would be interesting to look in to and see exactly how long it takes mycorrhizal fungi to establish itself and start working with the plant


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Sep 2, 2014)

SpicySativa said:


> It is not "normal" to make a "tea" from your runoff. It IS normal for a tea to froth. Making a tea from your runoff is kindof counterintuitive. Whatever organisms and nutrients are present in your runoff are (obviously) already present in your soil.
> 
> And don't add the mycorrhizal product to your tea... I seriously feel like a broken record I say this so often... The mycorrhizal fungi get dusted onto your roots at each transplant (especially early in the plant's life). Anything other than this is pretty much just wasting your money. MYCORRHIZAL FUNGI NEED DIRECT CONTACT WITH ROOTS IN ORDER TO GERMINATE AND GROW. They do not germinate or grow in tea; they become food for the things that DO grow in the tea.


I use airpots....when I undo an airpot and get ready for transplant the soil and roots are in a tight mold from the airpot...the roots are obviously exposed....Do you think I should sprinkle the mychorrizae on the roots themselves or sprinkle the inside soil of the new pot ? When I put the plant in the new airpot I make a mold then drop the plant inside...There is then a space between the mold of roots and soil and the inside of the new airpot.....I then drop more soil in that space between the two if that makes any sense.....So if I coated the inside of the new airpot with mychorrihizae soil would then go over that....

Would that be ok.....would the roots grow into the mychorrizae ?


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Sep 2, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> I would say it would be worth while if you are running a no-till and you're going to stick another clone into that same bucket, which will plug right in to that root zone and fungal network. If not, I don't see the product being much benefit. Not enough time for it to penetrate the roots and the hyphae to branch out IMO.
> 
> That's my best guess SC. It would be interesting to look in to and see exactly how long it takes mycorrhizal fungi to establish itself and start working with the plant


Sg....I guess I dont understand what you mean by no-till, and putting a clone in the same bucket ? Maybe I'm too tired or something....

It's an airpot with my ROLS....I take the plant and all the soil out and into a new airpot.....the old airpot has no soil left in it...I then clean the old airpot and put it away until the next new plant comes along.


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## st0wandgrow (Sep 3, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> Sg....I guess I dont understand what you mean by no-till, and putting a clone in the same bucket ? Maybe I'm too tired or something....
> 
> It's an airpot with my ROLS....I take the plant and all the soil out and into a new airpot.....the old airpot has no soil left in it...I then clean the old airpot and put it away until the next new plant comes along.



No till means that you do not dump the soil after flower. You cut the plant at the base of the stalk, top dress/re-ammend more organic nutrients/EWC, then put another plant right back in to that container. The thinking behind this is that you've already got an established soil food web (including a network of mycorrhizal fungi) that your new clone will plug right in to and take off.


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## SpicySativa (Sep 3, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> I use airpots....when I undo an airpot and get ready for transplant the soil and roots are in a tight mold from the airpot...the roots are obviously exposed....Do you think I should sprinkle the mychorrizae on the roots themselves or sprinkle the inside soil of the new pot ? When I put the plant in the new airpot I make a mold then drop the plant inside...There is then a space between the mold of roots and soil and the inside of the new airpot.....I then drop more soil in that space between the two if that makes any sense.....So if I coated the inside of the new airpot with mychorrihizae soil would then go over that....
> 
> Would that be ok.....would the roots grow into the mychorrizae ?


I do this each time I transplant:

- Grab new pot

- Put some fresh soil in the bottom of it.

- Grab your plant (still in it's old pot) and lower it into the new pot. If it's sitting at the right level, cool. If not, add or remove some soil until it looks right. Jiggle it around a little to make an indentation where it'll sit. Remove the plant (still in pot) and set aside. 

- Sprinkle a little handful of fresh worm castings into the indentation.

- Sprinkle a teaspoon or two of mycorrhizal powder/granules on top of the worm castings.

- Remove your plant from it's old pot and plop it right into that indentation.

- Add soil around the edges until the soil is level. Pack it down LIGHTLY as you go, don't just pour it in there. 

- Water thoroughly.

There you have it... Do this and you're plants will thank you.


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## fridayfishfry (Sep 28, 2014)

Very interesting. Looks like the first one is the 'white root' one and beneficial for our purposes. The 2nd for trees and rotten _leaf_ compost; and the 3rd will give you and everyone who lives with you a spot of cancy.


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## bellcore (Oct 1, 2014)

Dr.Pecker said:


> I think great white is fine. I use half teaspoon per gallon of water and only use it once after transplant paid 35$ for a jar a year and a half ago still have some.


 Same, Ive had my jar for 4 years now. It isn't that expensive as it doesn't take much.


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## Pattahabi (Oct 1, 2014)

bellcore said:


> Same, Ive had my jar for 4 years now. It isn't that expensive as it doesn't take much.


Except that it's filled with trichoderma spores which will inhibit the root colonization of the mycorrhizae. Most likely any benefit you are seeing is from the trichoderma. Not to mention it's double the price of everything else.

But hey, it has a cool label!
P-


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## greasemonkeymann (Oct 1, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> I use airpots....when I undo an airpot and get ready for transplant the soil and roots are in a tight mold from the airpot...the roots are obviously exposed....Do you think I should sprinkle the mychorrizae on the roots themselves or sprinkle the inside soil of the new pot ? When I put the plant in the new airpot I make a mold then drop the plant inside...There is then a space between the mold of roots and soil and the inside of the new airpot.....I then drop more soil in that space between the two if that makes any sense.....So if I coated the inside of the new airpot with mychorrihizae soil would then go over that....
> 
> Would that be ok.....would the roots grow into the mychorrizae ?


 here is what I do, not saying its the best way, but it seems to have the best results, when transplanting, it's important to add mychorrizae directly to the roots, the best way to do this, is this, take the plant out of the container, spray the roots with a water bottle (plain water) the roots when wet will allow the myco to stick, so from there you sprinkle the mychorrizae directly on the rootball, cover the damn thing, keep an opened cardboard box under it and you can catch the excess myco to sprinkle on the soil too, most important is root-contact, I've noticed better results from this as opposed to sprinkling the soil.
If it's been a bit since the plant was in the soil, it may be a good idea to water with an aact prior to transplanting to allow the beneficials to colonize the container.


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## Dr.Pecker (Oct 1, 2014)

greasemonkeymann said:


> here is what I do, not saying its the best way, but it seems to have the best results, when transplanting, it's important to add mychorrizae directly to the roots, the best way to do this, is this, take the plant out of the container, spray the roots with a water bottle (plain water) the roots when wet will allow the myco to stick, so from there you sprinkle the mychorrizae directly on the rootball, cover the damn thing, keep an opened cardboard box under it and you can catch the excess myco to sprinkle on the soil too, most important is root-contact, I've noticed better results from this as opposed to sprinkling the soil.
> If it's been a bit since the plant was in the soil, it may be a good idea to water with an aact prior to transplanting to allow the beneficials to colonize the container.


That sounds good to me. I also put some in the soil and add potassium when I transplant, but that's just me, everyone has their takes. One thing I can say is, not everyone's grow works the same. This is my first time with super soil and I have about 450$ into it. So if I have to burn a few spoonfuls of great white, I will risk it. I do like a cow shit grow (Composted) I am a tlo grower. ....Most of the time.


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## greasemonkeymann (Oct 2, 2014)

Dr.Pecker said:


> That sounds good to me. I also put some in the soil and add potassium when I transplant, but that's just me, everyone has their takes. One thing I can say is, not everyone's grow works the same. This is my first time with super soil and I have about 450$ into it. So if I have to burn a few spoonfuls of great white, I will risk it. I do like a cow shit grow (Composted) I am a tlo grower. ....Most of the time.


 if you like cowshit, try alpaca or rabbit, that stuff is the greatest shit ever. Mixed with a homemade EWC and you are damn set


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## grow_daddy (Nov 6, 2014)

Has anyone tried Eco-Boost from Circle Organics? http://www.biobasics.biz/collections/featured/products/eco-boost

Stuff seems to have a pretty crazy concentration of fungi.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 6, 2014)

I doubt the mycorrhizae is going to do you much good. Not really any need for any bottles like this if you have a well built soil. 

The finest horticulture sea kelp huh? 

P-


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 7, 2014)

bottled mycorrihzae is pretty much a waste of time, you want the powder form and layer thick all over youre roots, my opinion you can never overdose in bacteria and fungi.


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## grow_daddy (Nov 7, 2014)

Why would you consider the bottled stuff to be a waste of time? What specifically makes the powder preferable over liquid? Thanks!


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 7, 2014)

liquid gos into the water rite which when applied the fungi goes all over in the media, the fungi is best used when its on the roots even mixing more of the granular into the soil is worthless cause its not fully touching the roots. ive tried this side by side the granular one had better vigor and faster growth, where as the water applied version I was using humboldts mycomadness and used mykos by extreme gardens, one granular and ones for liquid application.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 7, 2014)

It's that this whole product is a waste of time. Like so many of these products they try and throw a bunch of stuff into a bottle, put a fancy label and add a hefty price tag. Propriatary liquid concentrate from 'pure' earthworm castings? Any vermiculturist will tell you there is no sure thing as pure worm castings. What are they exactracting? And why would we need that when we already have the real deal in our soil? Many of us have worms living right in our pot and are using 1/3 vermicompost.

_13 varieties of Endo/Ecto Mycorrhizae; a complex and diverse blend of living beneficial microbes comprised of more than 40 varieties totaling more than 13.89 MILLION CFUs (colony forming units) PER FLUID OUNCE_

Again, why do we need 13 endo and ecto mycorrhizal strains? And those have to actually get to the roots to be of use or they are going to become foodstock.

And then the rest of ingredients:

_liquid humates, a protein base, humic acid; amino acid, fulvic acid, yucca and the finest Horticultural Sea Kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum)._

Liquid humates, humic acid, fulvic acid - see bioag. I'm betting this is just leonardite/lignite. Protein base? Amino acid? and the Finest Horticulture Sea Kelp?

Why exactly are we buying this?


P-


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 7, 2014)

biogas fulvpower is the only bottle product that bioag has, not to mention its done with microbes and bacteria of a process of biodigestation compasred to the others that use phosphoric acid to make the humic acids. and its omri listed. its ppm neutral and ph neutral.


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## grow_daddy (Nov 7, 2014)

I don't personally know how this product ties into horticulture enough to speak on the subject, yet. I will say though that there has been significant benefit to soil health in applications where these fungi have been depleted as a result of sustained stress, for instance sports turf. Again, I'm no expert, but my hunch is that soil properly maintained through a complete nutrient program might not have much use for supplementary mycorrhizal fungi.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 7, 2014)

grow_daddy said:


> I don't personally know how this product ties into horticulture enough to speak on the subject, yet. I will say though that there has been significant benefit to soil health in applications where these fungi have been depleted as a result of sustained stress, for instance sports turf. Again, I'm no expert, but my hunch is that soil properly maintained through a complete nutrient program might not have much use for supplementary mycorrhizal fungi.


I think many of the organic crowd here work to create a soil that sustains the soil food web. Once these soils are inoculated, they do a good job of maintaining the soil biology. We inoculate at transplant and call it a day. If I am not mistaken root colonization can take up to 30 days which is why it is recommended to inoculate as early as possible. 

P-


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 8, 2014)

I completely agree. as soon as I transplant I heavy feed them with bioroot(bottled, but I got a whole gallon for free) and great white with yucca extract of course.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 8, 2014)

Make sure you add the great white directly to the root zone - not the same as watering it in. I'm pretty adamant about finding mycorrhizae products that do not contain large trichoderma counts (preferably no trichoderma) due to a couple studies I have seen where the trichoderma inhibit root colonization of VAM.

Peace!
P-


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 8, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> Make sure you add the great white directly to the root zone - not the same as watering it in. I'm pretty adamant about finding mycorrhizae products that do not contain large trichoderma counts (preferably no trichoderma) due to a couple studies I have seen where the trichoderma inhibit root colonization of VAM.
> 
> Peace!
> P-


You use the Extreme brand right?

I'm using the stuff from Fungi Perfecti right now. Not sure how that stacks up??


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## Pattahabi (Nov 8, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> You use the Extreme brand right?
> 
> I'm using the stuff from Fungi Perfecti right now. Not sure how that stacks up??


Yes, I am using the xtreme brand mykos. Without looking at the package, I believe it's the 80 spore premier product repackaged - straight glomus intraradices.

If this is the one you are using, I don't see any spore counts anywhere?

http://www.fungi.com/shop/fungi-for-healthy-gardens-and-garden-supplies.html

Peace!
P-


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 8, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> Yes, I am using the xtreme brand mykos. Without looking at the package, I believe it's the 80 spore premier product repackaged - straight glomus intraradices.
> 
> If this is the one you are using, I don't see any spore counts anywhere?
> 
> ...


On the bottle it says:

"Contains spore mass of Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, and Glomus etunicatum. (55 prop./gram each)".

Thoughts?


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## Pattahabi (Nov 8, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> On the bottle it says:
> 
> "Contains spore mass of Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, and Glomus etunicatum. (55 prop./gram each)".
> 
> Thoughts?


Disclaimer lol:


I have heard glomus intraradices and glomus mosse for cannabis. I would think that mix would be real nice. Can I ask what something like that a pound is? I think the xtreme is $17 with the good dude discount at the local dro store. Are there any other bacteria/fungi in the mix?

Couple links:

• Glomus Intraradices
• Glomus Mosseae
• Glomus Aggregatum
• Glomus Etunicatum

P-


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 8, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> Disclaimer lol:
> 
> 
> I have heard glomus intraradices and glomus mosse for cannabis. I would think that mix would be real nice. Can I ask what something like that a pound is? I think the xtreme is $17 with the good dude discount at the local dro store. Are there any other bacteria/fungi in the mix?
> ...



Nothing else in it other than what I listed above. $59.95 + shipping for a lb. sounds like the stuff you're using is a better deal. They sell the Extreme Myco at different places around me, but it is way more expensive than what you're paying!


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## Pattahabi (Nov 8, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Nothing else in it other than what I listed above. $59.95 + shipping for a lb. sounds like the stuff you're using is a better deal. They sell the Extreme Myco at different places around me, but it is way more expensive than what you're paying!


Maybe I need to double check the price, but I thought it was right around $17. I'm not sure I could shell out $60/per lb. It does sound like nice stuff though. FWIW, I so a noticable difference between Great white and the xtreme mykos.

Actually, damn! Check out Amazon! A kilo for $22.60? Shit, I might order one even though I already have some.

http://www.amazon.com/Xtreme-Gardening-RT4402-Mykos-2-2-Pound/dp/B003STB5N6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415489031&sr=8-1&keywords=mycorrhizae

Peace!

P-


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## Dr.Pecker (Nov 8, 2014)

The shop I went to had that stuff . It says it only treats 2 plants. 20 dollars for two plants?.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 8, 2014)

Dr.Pecker said:


> The shop I went to had that stuff . It says it only treats 2 plants. 20 dollars for two plants?.


No, it treats a lot more then two plants. Not sure where you saw that at, but I usually add like a tsp on small transplants and like a tbsp on larger ones.

P-


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## Dr.Pecker (Nov 8, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> No, it treats a lot more then two plants. Not sure where you saw that at, but I usually add like a tsp on small transplants and like a tbsp on larger ones.
> 
> P-


I'll take a look at again next time im in the store. That's why I was turned off by it. It might have been azos.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 8, 2014)

Dr.Pecker said:


> I'll take a look at again next time im in the store. That's why I was turned off by it. It might have been azos.


Azos is pretty strong stuff! I have a bag that I never use cause my plants damn near get nitrogen toxicity when I apply it!

P-


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 10, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> Make sure you add the great white directly to the root zone - not the same as watering it in. I'm pretty adamant about finding mycorrhizae products that do not contain large trichoderma counts (preferably no trichoderma) due to a couple studies I have seen where the trichoderma inhibit root colonization of VAM.
> 
> Peace!
> P-


actually look up vam by bioag it doesn't have trichomderma, it has a wide variety of mycorrhazae, and its extracted from live plants tather then form a lab, so its more alive and shit. look it up its a really nice product. also I do add it to the root zone I actually add like 2 tsps. to my root zone then a tblsp of mykos from extreme. but I did a test difference between the two and had better roots and vigor from my plant that was just vam added then the great white and mykos mix. and its due to the trichomderma being to aggressive.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 10, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> actually look up vam by bioag it doesn't have trichomderma, it has a wide variety of mycorrhazae, and its extracted from live plants tather then form a lab, so its more alive and shit. look it up its a really nice product. also I do add it to the root zone I actually add like 2 tsps. to my root zone then a tblsp of mykos from extreme. but I did a test difference between the two and had better roots and vigor from my plant that was just vam added then the great white and mykos mix. and its due to the trichomderma being to aggressive.


I have not usd the VAM, but I have seen nothing but quality come from Bioag. Their Fulpower and TM-7 are excellent. I'll might have to pick up a package some time. The Xtreme gardening mykos are just so damn cheap! Lol!

P-


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 10, 2014)

I know man but where im at the regular bag of mykos and vam are the same, and I know man I use the crapp outta cytoplast


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## cagerattler (Nov 12, 2014)

lol smh.


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## MJtheIndicator (Nov 14, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> Except that it's filled with trichoderma spores which will inhibit the root colonization of the mycorrhizae.
> P-


They don't outright battle one another which is a minor disinformation finding its way around the internet (in truth they are ideally symbiotic), if there is enough woody matter in the soil the trich will generally take to it. 

_Trichoderma species are frequently isolated from forest or agricultural soils at all latitudes. Hypocrea species are most frequently found on bark or on decorticated wood but many species grow on bracket fungi (e.g. H. pulvinata), Exidia (H. sulphurea) or bird's nest fungi (H. latizonata) or agarics (H. avellanea)._

Personally I feel it best to separate the trichoderma from the endo to let it populate a woody mixture first then introduce it to the endo myc mix for a balanced population which in turn fastens directly to its biological counterpart in the root > tissue of cannabis. This type of symbiosis and balance in the fungi has shown in studies of woody plants a transference of nitrogen to surrounding embryophyta via Hartig net.


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 14, 2014)

so then how would you go by doing that then?


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## MJtheIndicator (Nov 14, 2014)

Allow trich and ecto to populate woody associated amendments separately from a proprietary soil the plant grows in which would have endo mycs. Populate mulch and/or compost separately from proprietary soil then combine once you feel fungal activity is established within each on their own away from one another. Chances are they won't hate on each other if they are up to duty as usual minding their own business. If still paranoid about any disasters or lack of symbiosis take the typical route and top dress with trich/ecto affected mulch or compost.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 14, 2014)

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00572-003-0240-y

*Abstract*
The interaction between Trichoderma pseudokoningii (Rifai) 511, 2212, 741A, 741B and 453 and the arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi Glomus mosseae (Nicol. & Gerd.) Gerdemann & Trappe BEG12 and Gigaspora rosea Nicolson & Schenck BEG9 were studied in vitro and in greenhouse experiments. *All T. pseudokoningii strains inhibited the germination of G. mosseae and Gi. rosea except the strain 453, which did not affect the germination of Gi. rosea.*

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0038071794902186?np=y

*Abstract*
The effect of inoculation with the saprophytic fungi Trichoderma koningii and Fusarium solani on maize (Zea mays) and lettuce (Lactuca sativa) with or without arbuscular mycorrhizal (AM) colonization by Glomus mosseae was studied in a greenhouse trial. *Plant dry wt of non-AM inoculated maize and lettuce were unaffected by the presence of T. koningii and F. solani. In contrast, T. koningii decreased plant dry wt and AM colonization when inoculated into the rhizosphere before or at the same time as G. mosseae.*


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## MJtheIndicator (Nov 14, 2014)

Yes this is what occurs when the fungi are placed head to head, but nature isn't a battleground between the two when one has live or woody plant remnant in a compound for the trichoderma and/or ecto mycorrhiza to populate i.e. compost/mulch (pre-soil mix), so if you start by separating the various fungi as is the case in nature within a hyphal network the relationship of trichoderma and mycorrhizal associations is logical and in truth benefit from one another so long as one is segregating their specific role and asset from the start. The scholarly study on ecto and NPK tranference is rare as are controlled tests on populated live or deadwood relationships between trichoderma's surface role and endo at the vascular level; keyword mutualistic.

We can find these fungal colonies working together in nature in forests time and time again, they are not enemies nor is trichoderma a villain. What I am trying to express is a consensus wherein companies who are packaging a fungi gangbang of trichoderma, endo and ecto mycorrhiza are defeating nature's purpose by placing them in the octagon against one another. I agree this brand of product is a failure, yet in the mad rush to debunk corporate ideology raw science need not perish.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 14, 2014)

I realize the two can work together mutualistically in nature. However, as you said, 

_"What I am trying to express is a consensus wherein companies who are packaging a fungi gangbang of trichoderma, endo and ecto mycorrhiza are defeating nature's purpose by placing them in the octagon against one another."_

Which is exactly what I said in the post you quoted. I never said trichoderma was a bad guy. I said I would avoid mykos products with millions of trichoderma spores.

P-


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## MJtheIndicator (Nov 14, 2014)

Forgive me, not meant as an overreaction. There is a great deal of dialogue among growers leaning towards trichoderma being detrimental. I somewhat allude to your remark: "I'm pretty adamant about finding mycorrhizae products that do not contain large trichoderma counts (preferably no trichoderma) due to a couple studies I have seen where the trichoderma inhibit root colonization of VAM."

I didn't want to presuppose you are going about separating fungi because such a practice can come across tedious or overkill. Most of the dialogue I run across surrounds mycorrhiza vs. trichoderma and I do apoligize for assuming you avoid them based on the inhibition you mentioned.


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## Pattahabi (Nov 14, 2014)

MJtheIndicator said:


> Forgive me, not meant as an overreaction. There is a great deal of dialogue among growers leaning towards trichoderma being detrimental. I somewhat allude to your remark: "I'm pretty adamant about finding mycorrhizae products that do not contain large trichoderma counts (preferably no trichoderma) due to a couple studies I have seen where the trichoderma inhibit root colonization of VAM."
> 
> I didn't want to presuppose you are going about separating fungi because such a practice can come across tedious or overkill. Most of the dialogue I run across surrounds mycorrhiza vs. trichoderma and I do apoligize for assuming you avoid them based on the inhibition you mentioned.


No, worries, I was just clarifying my position. I understand your point. Trichoderma are definitely beneficial to a plant. It's the mass amount of trichoderma spores they put in the mykos products which I keep a close eye on. I was in the grow store a few months ago and picked up a bottle of 'mycos madness' from humboldt nutrients. Madness sure was an accurate descriptor!

_GUARANTEED ANALYSIS_
Mycorrhiza: 
Endomycorrhiza/cc
*Glomus aggregatum……………………8 spores per cc
Glomus intraradices……………………8 spores per cc
Glomus mosseae……………………….8 spores per cc
Glomus entunicatum…………………...8 spores per cc
Glomus monosporum………………..…2 spores per cc
Glomus deserticola…………………..…2 spores per cc
Glomus clarum…………………………2 spores per cc*
*Tricoderma:*
*Trichoderma koningii 187,000* spores per cc
*Trichoderma harzianum 187,000* spores per cc


I'm no microbiologist, but I'd say those glomus strains have an uphill battle.

My 2¢

P-


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## MJtheIndicator (Nov 14, 2014)

For bonsai pine soil mix their attempt might work, but for cannabis and particularly in regards to harzanium its best to segregate. Prize pumpkin growers have been separating colonies for some time now and introducing them once established with great results.


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## DonTesla (Nov 29, 2014)

@DonPetro What about our myco bro, do you know the brand or if it is Trichoderma free? REESPECT!!


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## DonPetro (Nov 29, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> @DonPetro What about our myco bro, do you know the brand or if it is Trichoderma free? REESPECT!!


Shit not sure man. I can do some digging.


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## earthling420 (Mar 7, 2015)

awesome info guys thanks. I now know how to better avoid the junk and know the shop guys are just spewing bs lol
I have some mycos off BAS and got some with trichoderma off fungiperfecti. They don't give thespore count on their website but ill be getting it monday and let yall know. im sure the one off BAS is top notch. crazy amount of myco spores 132/gram. 4 different strains


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## earthling420 (Mar 7, 2015)

ok so the one from fungi perfecti. myco grow soluble has a lot of shit lemme put up a pic


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## earthling420 (Mar 7, 2015)

Myco Grow Soluble:


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## earthling420 (Mar 7, 2015)

the brand product extreme mykos only has 80 spores per gram of one strain.. glomus intraradices.

What yall think? Would it be a bad idea to innoculate with all 3? Not at the same though...


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## earthling420 (Mar 7, 2015)

Idk. Cause the myco grow is really really low in glomus.. so I feel itd be better to wait after innoculating with mycos from BAS and then use the other with rhizos and trichoderma? how long should I wait?


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## Sagethisplanet (Mar 15, 2015)

Kalyx said:


> Most cal mag products are synthetic. An organic one (GO, Biomin Ca, fulmag) would be a gentler option. Also dilute the product into your water before adding your myco product.


Me at not all. C'mon. There is many resources with cal mag in them


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## Sagethisplanet (Mar 15, 2015)

ASMALLVOICE said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have read that it is best to stop adding mycor right close to flowering or maybe just a week into, as once a colony has been established say early on in the veg stage, they will have done most of the good they are gonna do by 3 weeks into flower and once the blooming nutes hit, the higher P and K seems to harm or wipe them out or at least they don't like it from what I have read.
> Looking for some feedback for sure, cause them little buggers can be expensive, in more ways than one.
> 
> Peace and Great Grows
> ...


Once th root is established and your in flowering, do you want theplant to work on roots or flowers?


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## harris hawk (Mar 15, 2015)

Great White is one of the best - Also look at Aryzon by Extreme Garden use both really give good results


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## Pattahabi (Mar 16, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> *Great White is one of the best* - Also look at Aryzon by Extreme Garden use both really give good results


Not imo. Take a look at the spore counts and *the price*. I use Mykos from Xtreme gardening. Straight Glomus, no trichoderma, very reasonable price considering.

http://www.amazon.com/Xtreme-Gardening-RT4402-Mykos-2-2-Pound/dp/B003STB5N6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426528187&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Plant-Revolution-PRPSGW04-Great-White/dp/B00AU8JKR6/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1426528218&sr=1-1

P-


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## cc2012 (Mar 16, 2015)

Ohsogreen said:


> Sometimes, things are so well written, it would be a dis-service to paraphrase them. I ran across this page on Mycorrhizal Fungi and thought it was great info. So, here is a link to it:
> .
> Mycorrhiza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> .
> ...


Good Read OhSoGreen, makes Me glad I picked some this stuff up(in a packet,like) added to my Strawberry Blue when transplanted at the weekend into their final pots...SOOoo it will be interesting to see how these take of? or not...Proofs in tha pudding.

atb


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## Sagethisplanet (Mar 16, 2015)

Both is best....l


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## harris hawk (Mar 17, 2015)

Sagethisplanet said:


> Once th root is established and your in flowering, do you want theplant to work on roots or flowers?


When you work on roots - you are working on flower - that's why you still use up to week 4 of flower


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## Sagethisplanet (Mar 17, 2015)

Yea till week 4. That's it. So y waste that food when YA already have an established root system??? Does it create bigger foowers, sure the bigger the roots the better however once they are established its about protecting them and not burning your plant with P and K. Turtle always beats the hair


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## Sagethisplanet (Mar 17, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> When you work on roots - you are working on flower - that's why you still use up to week 4 of flower


Agree. Then stop. Same page,,,,,,, Flower is when there are flowers,,,,,, imo when discussing..... Best of luckluck


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## radicaldank42 (Mar 21, 2015)

you want to stay away from products that have trichomderma or how ever its spelt. its an aggressive bacteria that starts to consunme the others and by the time you get it to use it its mostly all trichomdermia or whatever.


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## Rhizonaut (Apr 1, 2015)

DANKSWAG said:


> I could be wrong, but it appears to be an Myco Apply / EM1 product with a food starter (molasses). You'd be better off just purchasing EM1 as a concentrated serum and then add equal parts molasses when ready to active and utilize in a tea or other applications. You can also make your own EM1 with Rice, H20 -sans chloride, Milk (Two step process for EM1 concentrate) and Molasses which activates it.


Hey Dankswag, this is some great info. I'm very interested in feeding these microbes from soil contents rather than having them excessively sap root exudates. Molasses and rice seem to come up commonly, and I've used molasses for AACT. My question is, have you ever considered or heard of using rice as part of a soil mix itself?


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## DonTesla (Apr 2, 2015)

Rhizonaut said:


> Hey Dankswag, this is some great info. I'm very interested in feeding these microbes from soil contents rather than having them excessively sap root exudates. Molasses and rice seem to come up commonly, and I've used molasses for AACT. My question is, have you ever considered or heard of using rice as part of a soil mix itself?


Hi Rhizo,

my bro likes to add a cup to every 18Gal
Myself, I would be tempted to try a bit more maybe see how it goes.
What seemed to work well too was sprinkling the rice over an amended batch and letting mycelium flourish in dark moist peace. 
I started blending a bit of rice and oatmeal in a nutribullet and sprinkling the flourish powder over.. It leads to a fast fungi-dom frenzy. Whole rice tends to crack and go a bit yellow, no rock, but still works good.

How bout you Dank


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## Rhizonaut (Apr 13, 2015)

DonTesla said:


> Hi Rhizo,
> 
> my bro likes to add a cup to every 18Gal
> Myself, I would be tempted to try a bit more maybe see how it goes.
> ...


I'd be tempted to do the same Don. I'd guess a primary reason it's not widely practiced or considered is that people tend to build soils based on what the plant needs rather than the collective needs of the living container... While I'm (fairly certain) plants don't eat rice, I know the microbes can use the grains as sources of concentrated carbohydrates. So, in theory, the plant will be able to conserve energy otherwise expended producing carbohydrate-rich root exudates to feed the microbial life since the carb-rich food is already there for them.


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## DonTesla (Apr 14, 2015)

Rhizonaut said:


> I'd be tempted to do the same Don. I'd guess a primary reason it's not widely practiced or considered is that people tend to build soils based on what the plant needs rather than the collective needs of the living container...


Good point, Rhizo. Though we now know its not the plant we feed, so much, its the microbes and roots we must nurture..
Still looks like rice and oatmeal and therefore the increased Fungi/Mycelium remain somewhat underused by the newer guys imo. Its not a network to be underestimated though..

Somewhat similar to how myco increases root mass by 700-1100x, Once mycelium is visible to the naked eye there are 500 strands (aka microtunnels) side by side to make what looks like just one strand.. So a furry layer represents not only an interconnected, far reaching nutrient and water network way beyond the roots, its potentially millions of mini tunnels for Bacteria and other nutrient-containing microbes to safely channel thru, post-mortem, avoiding an otherwise earlier death (via larger predators)..this micro-nutrient retention avoids soil leaching and means better rhizosphere health at the final critical stages right before harvest..
Never liked furry girls before but,
That should mean better yields right!? Lol


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## Rhizonaut (Apr 15, 2015)

Don, I believe we're on the same page. I believe there's a ted talk on how mushrooms will save the world, but for the time being, I'd just like to grow the chronic. Considering the alleged superhero powers of fungi however, maybe that next level organic growth potential isn't too far out of reach! It will be some time until my next generation for my perpetual, but when the time comes I will try a few different treatments of rice and oats.

A similar topic I've been thinking on is probiotic rice. Grains containing microbial inoculants which are eaten by soil microbes... I can't help but hypothesize that the more well-fed (quality not quantity) these micro critters are, the more ready willing and able they'll be to kick a few favors to their root friends. Has anyone heard of anything in regard to this type of rice?


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## Pattahabi (Apr 22, 2015)

Key To Life said:


> We offer a great Mycorrhiza! Powder, organic, water soluble Fungi. Check it out this stuff works like a champ! http://www.keytolifegarden.com/products/31


Always cracks me up when they say soluble fungi/bacteria. I'm assuming you are referring to a carrier. What species and spore counts do your products contain?

Wait... $119 a pound? Seriously? 

P-


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## Rhizonaut (Apr 24, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> Always cracks me up when they say soluble fungi/bacteria. I'm assuming you are referring to a carrier. What species and spore counts do your products contain?
> 
> Wait... $119 a pound? Seriously?
> 
> P-


I've had very poor results with the "instant" stuff myself. At a recent indoor growing expo in Denver, I obtained a few samples of 'OG Tea - Veganic Special Sauce' (a _no-brew-necessary_ instant soluble micro inoculant claiming their 'modifications' allowed the spectrum of species to 'colonize the rhizosphere at a constant rate'). I used the solution on four of my adult plants in vegetation and they all withered and essentially died.

My best results with inoculant additives containing a variety of species have been thanks to Fox Farm's 'Happy Frog All-Purpose 5-5-5'. I've also never noticed any hinderance with Xtreme gardening's 'Mykos' (_Glomus intraradices_) or 'Azos' (_Azospirlium brasilense_), though each is a single species (fungus and bacterium respectively), and I can't help but be suspicious of the narrow approach.


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## Pattahabi (Apr 24, 2015)

Rhizonaut said:


> I've had very poor results with the "instant" stuff myself. At a recent indoor growing expo in Denver, I obtained a few samples of 'OG Tea - Veganic Special Sauce' (a _no-brew-necessary_ instant soluble micro inoculant claiming their 'modifications' allowed the spectrum of species to 'colonize the rhizosphere at a constant rate'). I used the solution on four of my adult plants in vegetation and they all withered and essentially died.
> 
> My best results with inoculant additives containing a variety of species have been thanks to Fox Farm's 'Happy Frog All-Purpose 5-5-5'. I've also never noticed any hinderance with Xtreme gardening's 'Mykos' (_Glomus intraradices_) or 'Azos' (_Azospirlium brasilense_), though each is a single species (fungus and bacterium respectively), and I can't help but be suspicious of the narrow approach.


AFAIK fungi are not soluble. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here. It's another marketing buzz word. I would never, ever put fox farms anything in my soil, period. However, I use both of those Xtreme gardening products with good results. The mykos is what I use for my mycorrhizae innoculant. I was previously using great white (lots o species) and the Xtreme Mykos blew it away. No comparison. The Azos is also a good product imo, but a little bit goes a long way. I'll often use a little when cloning - more b/c I still have the bag around than anything.

Lol, Key to Life deleted his post...

P-


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## Rhizonaut (Apr 24, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> AFAIK fungi are not soluble. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here. It's another marketing buzz word. I would never, ever put fox farms anything in my soil, period. However, I use both of those Xtreme gardening products with good results. The mykos is what I use for my mycorrhizae innoculant. I was previously using great white (lots o species) and the Xtreme Mykos blew it away. No comparison. The Azos is also a good product imo, but a little bit goes a long way. I'll often use a little when cloning - more b/c I still have the bag around than anything.
> 
> Lol, Key to Life deleted his post...
> 
> P-


Yes! I've had a bag of Azos around forever...a roommate left it to me! I mostly dust root balls (lightly) with it during transplants. I agree though about Mykos, I find _Glomus intraradices_ is often the first fungal species listed on any given inoculant variety. So if there is a single-species approach that ultimately benefits your harvest more than the 'shotgun' approach, then I'd bank that'd be the one.

Yeah, the soluble stuff I tried was only because I'd gotten it for free and was scientifically curious. I'm glad I can confirm others have noticed the same results!

I am in no way preferential to Fox Farm products. I find their 'Happy Frog' All-Purpose 5-5-5 is a nice go-to nutrient with a nice spread of micro minions, but my allegiance to them ends there! I never use liquid nutrient additives on my soil containers.


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## DonTesla (Apr 26, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> AFAIK fungi are not soluble. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong . I was previously using great white (lots o species) and the Xtreme Mykos blew it away. No comparison. The Azos is also..
> 
> 
> P-


So Xtreme Mycos is the best myco in your opinion, P?

And Rhizo, probiotic rice sounds, sound.. We should look into a bit further perhaps..


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## Pattahabi (Apr 26, 2015)

DonTesla said:


> So Xtreme Mycos is the best myco in your opinion, P?
> 
> And Rhizo, probiotic rice sounds, sound.. We should look into a bit further perhaps..


I don't know about the best. It out performed great white in my garden (anecdotal), and I find it to be a good value ($25 a kilo). I've also heard good things about Bioag's VAM, but I've not tried it. Most mykos are produced by a few companies and then repackaged under all the various names.

So a long answer short, I've used great white, zho (few samples) and xtreme mykos and I prefer xtreme mykos. 

P-


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## Indian Spices (Apr 27, 2015)

@DANKSWAG nice remark to EM

I use EM in every other watering.. it works well 

especially when you use molasses as food for the bacteria! try it out! I think you find several tutorials to make your own EM.

Another great think is Bokashi Compost! You can nearly compost all organic waste (food/ kitchen waste). After the stuff has composted for about 3 months, you can get it out of your sealed compost can, burry it in your garden and wait another month or two.. after that you may plant your girls at this spot and you will see how happy they are.

Nice for all people who have not enough space for a good old compost pile in the garden


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## iHearAll (Jun 7, 2015)

Indian Spices said:


> @DANKSWAG nice remark to EM
> 
> I use EM in every other watering.. it works well
> 
> ...


You must be after my heart stranger. I do 1:1 spent coffee grinds and peat moss fermented with EM extended. Then fermented a pail of kitchen garbage with it. Buried it. Waited two weeks and planted a fully established white widow topped and ready for the transplant. That babe yeilded awesome. Sustainable agriculture ftw. Eme is 30ml em1 + 30ml molasses + 1 liter nonchlorinated water in a plastic bottle + 7 days = new bottle of em or better known as eme. Cant extend the extended unless you want only lactobacillus


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## iHearAll (Jun 7, 2015)

iHearAll said:


> You must be after my heart stranger. I do 1:1 spent coffee grinds and peat moss fermented with EM extended. Then fermented a pail of kitchen garbage with it. Buried it. Waited two weeks and planted a fully established white widow topped and ready for the transplant. That babe yeilded awesome. Sustainable agriculture ftw. Eme is 30ml em1 + 30ml molasses + 1 liter nonchlorinated water in a plastic bottle + 7 days = new bottle of em or better known as eme. Cant extend the extended unless you want only lactobacillus


More efficiently with the bokashi compost fill a 5-7 gallon pail in layers of bokashi and garbage (1inch food then just a sprinkle of bokashi).let it ferment for 2 weeks and then burry for two weeks. It's well decomposed by then.


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## MJtheIndicator (Jun 7, 2015)

I'm delighted with all the dialogue surrounding EM and bokashi, you folks are fun.


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## DonTesla (Jun 7, 2015)

It's a great platform we stand on... Insane growth curves cause of it.
There's always someone doing and teaching what you wanna try and learn


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## IronLunG710 (Apr 24, 2016)

anyone know the relationship between myco and enzymes such as hygrozyme? just wondering if I can use em together in the same feed or if the enzymatic action might destroy any myco spores or bacteria (great white)? cant seem to find this info anywhere else so if anyone can provide a sensible answer I greatly appreciate it. Peace


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## MistaRasta (Apr 24, 2016)

IronLunG710 said:


> anyone know the relationship between myco and enzymes such as hygrozyme? just wondering if I can use em together in the same feed or if the enzymatic action might destroy any myco spores or bacteria (great white)? cant seem to find this info anywhere else so if anyone can provide a sensible answer I greatly appreciate it. Peace


Microbes produce enzymes which in turn break organic matter down. If you have them in your soil (which you do) don't waste $$$ on products like hygrozyme..

I'd be more worried about the trichoderma from great white killing your mycos than anything.


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## kilojay619 (Jun 24, 2016)

are mycorrhiza fungi active in mushroom compost?


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## DonBrennon (Jun 26, 2016)

kilojay619 said:


> are mycorrhiza fungi active in mushroom compost?


No, short answer, and more than likely not even present. Myco needs a living host root to be active


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## backtracker (Jul 12, 2016)

Plants are also home to millions of microbes that have a huge impact on plant health and growth. Beneficial bacteria that live in and on roots and leaves can help plants take up minerals and nutrients from the soil, fend off pathogens and withstand salt, heat and drought.

Previous studies have shown that a plant's genes can shape its microbiome in the lab, but far fewer studies have measured the extent to which the plant microbiome is under genetic control in the field.

"There can be thousands of different kinds of bacteria within a single leaf," said first author Maggie Wagner, who was a graduate student at Duke at the time of the study. "The question is: what factors influence the microbes that end up living inside the plant?"

To disentangle the relative effects of a plant's genes, environment and other factors, Wagner and colleagues used DNA sequencing to analyze the microbiome of a spindly wildflower called Boechera stricta where it grows wild in the Rocky Mountains.

Genetically identical lines of the plant were germinated from seed in greenhouses at Duke and then transplanted as seedlings into three experimental gardens in central Idaho.

Two to four years later, the researchers returned to harvest the plants. They sequenced the bacterial DNA in the roots and leaves of 440 individuals.

When they compared the bacterial sequences they found to databases of known microbes, the researchers detected nearly 4,000 types of bacteria living inside the plants.

Proteobacteria and Actinobacteria were the most common bacterial groups. Roots harbored two to ten times more types of bacteria than leaves.

Environmental differences among sites and between years -- such as soil pH, moisture and temperature -- had the biggest influence on the plants' bacterial makeup.

On average, 5 percent or less of the variation in microbial diversity was controlled by plant genetics. The influence of plant genes was stronger in the leaves than in the roots, and varied significantly from one site to another.

"There's a lot of interest in harnessing the power of microbiomes for plant health, especially for crop plants," said Wagner, now a postdoctoral researcher in the Department of Plant Pathology at North Carolina State University.

Agricultural companies are already coating seeds with beneficial microbes or adding them to the soil to boost the production of crops like soybean and corn and reduce our reliance on fertilizers and pesticides.

These results support the idea that it is also possible to use traditional plant breeding to shape the plant microbiome. But at least for crops in the same plant family as Boechera, such as cabbage and broccoli, breeding a better microbiome may be easier in leaves than roots, and a microbial community that breeds true in one location or set of growing conditions may not be reliably inherited in others.

"Microbiomes could be a very useful tool for improving agricultural productivity in the face of population growth and climate change," Wagner said, "but designing an effective breeding program could be a lot harder than some people think it is."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160712130223.htm


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## ugmjfarmer (Jul 13, 2016)

IronLunG710 said:


> anyone know the relationship between myco and enzymes such as hygrozyme? just wondering if I can use em together in the same feed or if the enzymatic action might destroy any myco spores or bacteria (great white)? cant seem to find this info anywhere else so if anyone can provide a sensible answer I greatly appreciate it. Peace


Great white actually consumes itself because they include a healthy dose of trichoderma. This will overtake the entire spore count choking them out. Hygrozyme also sucks; i'm not sure on their enzymatic formula but I do not put much stock in it. I use EM-1 as a replacement and I've never had better results; but this is soil not hydro. Great white sucks because *Endo* has an exchange mechanism an the inside of the root (and the hyphae extend outside the root). Endo mycorrhizae form mostly with green leafy plants and most commercially produced plants. Examples: Most Vegetables, Grasses, Flowers,Shrubs, Fruit Trees and Ornamentals.

*Ecto* lives only outside of the root. Ecto mycorrhizae form mainly with Conifers and Oaks. They are required only for a small percentage of woody type plants/trees. Trichoderma also naturally exist in coco making the situation worse for competition with endo myco. In short; I only spend my money on Endo's. VM-1 is the one you will find at your grow store, but it is waaaaay overpriced. I buy mine from a company called root naturally.


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## Jared Cox (Jul 29, 2016)

You should check out the Rev's book True Living Organics. I been growing basically this way for years with success - it's basically just pumping up your microlife for quick breakdown of nutrients and optimal myco fungi levels. Soil gets better every year if you take care of it good. Here a good article about myco fungi and TLO growing - TLO - I use slightly over a quarter of perlite in my mix to really pump up the aeration levels.


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## ledder (Sep 3, 2016)

I admit Im lazy, so I just ask here.. Anyone know any good mycorrhiza fungi product from EU area ?
Many is saying good things about "mycrogrow soluble". Any good alternatives found in EU ?


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## DonBrennon (Sep 3, 2016)

I believe this is the 'go to' product for those in the know, only contains one species of myco', but it's the only one proven to work with cannabis - http://www.xtreme-gardening.com/mykos

But

this is what I'm currently using, because I use it for more than just MJ https://www.thenutrientcompany.com/product/tnc-mycorrendo/


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## DonBrennon (Sep 3, 2016)

ledder said:


> I admit Im lazy, so I just ask here.. Anyone know any good mycorrhiza fungi product from EU area ?
> Many is saying good things about "mycrogrow soluble". Any good alternatives found in EU ?


Just looked at the one you tagged and it's one I've looked into before. It contains all sorts and is probably good for it's beneficial bacteria..............but(and this is only theoretical, hard to prove I guess).............even though it's got the correct species of myco in it that we want, because it's mixed in with the trichoderma and the other bennies, it hasn't got much chance of surviving and actually colonising your root zone. The myco fungi spores will just be food for the trichoderma.

You want something with just endo myco and only apply it by dusting the roots on transplant


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## platt (Sep 5, 2016)

++ even though it's got the correct species of myco in it that we want, because it's mixed in with the trichoderma and the other bennies, it hasn't got much chance of surviving and actually colonising your root zone. The myco fungi spores will just be food for the trichoderma.++ wa wa wa waaaa ^^.. its actually the opposite!

++You want something with just endo myco and only apply it by dusting the roots on transplant++ correct!


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## DonBrennon (Sep 5, 2016)

platt said:


> ++ even though it's got the correct species of myco in it that we want, because it's mixed in with the trichoderma and the other bennies, it hasn't got much chance of surviving and actually colonising your root zone. The myco fungi spores will just be food for the trichoderma.++ wa wa wa waaaa ^^.. its actually the opposite!
> 
> ++You want something with just endo myco and only apply it by dusting the roots on transplant++ correct!


So.....................enlighten us


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## calliandra (Sep 5, 2016)

ledder said:


> Anyone know any good mycorrhiza fungi product from EU area ?


I sourced mine from a company nearby: https://gluckspilze.com/Mycorrhiza-Soluble

Yeah I really don't need all those ectos in there. The bacteria added are just fillers too, since I get my herd from compost, and I find the endo-counts are a tad low?
But I've been using them this season all over the garden (also non-weed), and it's working fine for me though it does take a while for them to take root 

I did ask them why they would mix up such a wide variety (I mean, by and large you really don't need ectos except when planting trees?), they said being too specific at this stage would confuse people to the point of giving up, so they have this product for the general public whilst they also offer crop-specific mycos (incl. consultation) for farmers.
So while I do have a bit of an aversion to these all-in products, otoh it's not going to hurt my plants if there are spores from unneeded species in the soil AND I'm helping a small company get started.

Oh! and they also added trichoderma...  I didn't know that could cause issues, maybe I need to go back to the store and ask them about that haha


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## DonBrennon (Sep 5, 2016)

Here's what I found

http://www.scielo.org.co/scielo.php?pid=S0120-548X2006000100004&script=sci_arttext

I was wrong about the myco spores becoming food for the tricho, but if you apply myco and tricho at the same time it does affect colonisation by the myco........................here's the specific part

*EFFECT OF T. harzianum ON PROCESS MYCORRHIZATION*
Plants treated only with AMF (AMF-0) showed a significantly greater percentage of root colonization with respect to the treated plants together with AMF and _T. harzianum_ (AMF-Th, Table 1 ). The decrease in root colonization in the presence of biological control agents belonging to the genus _Trichoderma_ coincides with that reported by Mcallister _et al._ (1994b), but contrasts with that reported by Calvet _et al._ (1993). The difference found in this study can be considered as a consequence of the effect exerted _T. harzianum_ on AMF presimbiótica phase (between the germination of spores and the arrival AMF and effective invasion mycelium to root tissues period).This effect has been studied by several authors in germination tests of spores of AMF in vitro (McAllister _et al_ , 1994a;. Fracchia _et al._ , 1998 ), where it has been established that different species of _Trichoderma_ can affect the germination percentage AMF spores. In fact, they have certain reductions in the percentage of germinating spores effects antagonism _Trichoderma_ which produces soluble substances in the environment and volatile compounds that directly affect these structures (McAllister _et al._ , 1994a; Martinez _et al._ , 2004 ). Furthermore, less blistering was observed by AMF ( Table 1 ) in conjunction with plants treated AMF and _T. harzianum_ respect to plants treated only with AMF. Vesicles are structures lipid reserves and carbon compounds formed by AMF in advanced stages of colonization of root tissues of the plant, which are formed when the symbiosis is already well established (van Aarle and Olsson, 2003), so that a decrease in the formation of these structures could relate to a situation which affects the normal development of this symbiosis. Although not reported a direct relationship to the influence of other microorganisms rhizosphere on the production of vesicles by AMF, it can be considered that the pressure exerted by _T. harzianum_ by releasing compounds in the substrate is a condition that can affect the normal development of mycorrhizal colonization process, for example, in terms of the time it takes to stabilize and begin AMF intrarradical accumulation of reserve substances. In other studies it has already determined that different species of _Trichoderma_ can affect the development and operation of the intrarradical phase of the AMF (McAllister et al., 1994b).


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## DonBrennon (Sep 5, 2016)

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Does_Trichoderma_interfere_with_mycorrhizae_root_colonization

Some interesting experiences listed here too


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## calliandra (Sep 6, 2016)

Yeah the results of the Spanish guys show 50% less AM colonization and only 1/5 of vesicule formation when those _Trichoderma harzianum_ are around - whereby there were no significant differences in final effect=root colonization was almost the same. Thanks btw for the translation of that passage!

But they also found that with the presence of AM fungi, the trichoderma population was actually halved (table 2 in the article). I was relieved to see that nature has appropriate balancing systems in place so I don't need to worry my poor broken head about it haha
I mean, whilst the suggestion in the researchgate discussion thread is to add AM first, trichoderma later - and that does make logical sense - how the fuck does that get sorted out in nature, where no one stops by to do that for the plants? Easy, they control each other, whereby, nature doesn't necessarily go the quickest road, which we are always striving to find, humble short-lived mortals that we are haha 

And then, the lack of truly different growth rates after 49 days (table 3)... which, however, they relativate, as it could be due to a possible mismatch of test plant and AM species used...

Interestingly, their results reflect my experience with my hotchpotch myco mix - at first, it seems nothing is happening, then all of a sudden the plants take off, which I had just been attributing to time it takes for mycos to get established. hm!

Oh and another article linked from the researchgate discussion (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0929139300000755) confirms that mycorrhizal colonisation (=the final result in the other study) is not affected negatively by the presence of trichoderma, whereby they did find differences in bacterial populations.

From this alone it wouldn't be wrong to conclude that yes, the trichoderma do have a´n effect on AM germination, not however on the final colonization?


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## indican3 (Sep 7, 2016)

Hey everyone, came across this thread today.

I decided to pick up some mycorrhizae, specifically I just got a bag of this (1/10th the size):







I have some clones grown in peat pellets going into a 3 gallon container, I suppose the best approach is to follow the instruction of the video and coat the rootball of the clones in this stuff and then plant.


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## platt (Sep 9, 2016)

Yeah nice outcome DonBrennon.

now lets grab this hotspot, the preinfective stage


DonBrennon said:


> The difference found in this study can be considered as a consequence of the effect exerted _T. harzianum_ on AMF presimbiótica phase (between the germination of spores and the arrival AMF and effective invasion mycelium to root tissues period)


For biocontrol in dirt mediums the development of a saprophytic stage is a prerequisite until the organism reach it specific host [host` in this case equals selective medium suitable for differentiation aKa roots or even decaying roots]
Another thing i cant recall if its proven or suggested, is that mycorrhiza carry its own autoinhibitors [clever thing]. But the meat is that many critters ( bacteria & isolates of trichoderma in this case) can unlock that autoinhibited mood & let mycorrhiza run thru it target. All thanks to allelopathy and chemotactic nice moves
.


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## DonBrennon (Sep 9, 2016)

platt said:


> Yeah nice outcome DonBrennon.
> 
> now lets grab this hotspot, the preinfective stage
> For biocontrol in dirt mediums the development of a saprophytic stage is a prerequisite until the organism reach it specific host [host` in this case equals selective medium suitable for differentiation aKa roots or even decaying roots]
> ...


I have become a real nerd...............I've started to find shit like this fascinating


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## elfo777 (Sep 14, 2016)

Sorry if this has been asked before...

I have both mycorrhiza and trichoderma harzianum. Can I mix both or shall I stick with only one?


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## dojagrower (Oct 17, 2016)

Ohsogreen said:


> .
> Lumberjack_Ian..... I've seen the stuff on Wormsway's website for $ 20
> .
> Drumsinttown has been using it on a grow, and I was wondering how it performed. I've been using Super Plant Tonic for a while now and I absolutely love the stuff. It has myco fungi, good bacteria and trace minerals - all natural and very effective.
> ...


Can you give us an addy where to order from or a name


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## calliandra (Oct 17, 2016)

elfo777 said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before...
> 
> I have both mycorrhiza and trichoderma harzianum. Can I mix both or shall I stick with only one?


I'd say you can mix them, as they also coexist in nature, but make sure it's less trichos than mycos.
The two apparently have this mutual inhibition process going on; the trichos inhibit myco germination, but the mycos inhibit tricho proliferation. So my reasoning is less trichos to make sure the mycos get a chance to get started.


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## platt (Oct 18, 2016)

poor mycos, such a hard life ^


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## calliandra (Oct 18, 2016)

platt said:


> poor mycos, such a hard life ^


Yeah I know right! haha


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## platt (Oct 20, 2016)

page 12 rizhonaut's posts


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## Jared Cox (Oct 29, 2016)

Make sure your soil has low levels of salt and phosphorus to promote mycorrhizal fungi... High levels of these can dehydrate fungi similar to putting table salt on a slug.


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## elfo777 (Oct 29, 2016)

Can anyone tell me how to inoculate my plants with mycos? Is it ok to put a little bit when my seeds are germinating? Or shall I wait until I plant my seedling into the soil and then water them with myco?


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## calliandra (Oct 30, 2016)

On my current grow I did both: just a pinch for germination, which should have been enough.
But then I got weak and sprinkled the root when I went to plant it too.
I'm still working on my trust in those tiny tiny things really being there I guess haha
So I go with sprinkling the roots when planting for now - for my own peace of mind


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## NaturalFarmer (Dec 14, 2016)

*Great source of info, one of the best I have seen*
http://mycorrhizas.info/
*
A Complete How-To: On-farm AM fungus inoculum production*
http://rodaleinstitute.org/a-complete-how-to-on-farm-am-fungus-inoculum-production/
*

Quick and easy guide to AM fungus inoculum*
http://rodaleinstitute.org/quick-and-easy-guide-on-farm-am-fungus-inoculum-production/


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## Wetdog (Dec 18, 2016)

Great stuff from Rodale! ^^^

I'm using an older technique from the same place, but for smaller amounts. This involved a bed of inoculated leeks that would be dug up,30-50% of the roots cut off and then replanted. The cavities in the CBS blocks around my raised beds are perfect, holding ~1gal of mix and native soil underneath. Onions, chives and other Alliums work as well.

I also always use fresh mix for my container garlic and the roots get cut up and added back to the mix at harvest.

It's really easy to grow yer own if you garden a little.

Wet


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## NaturalFarmer (Dec 18, 2016)

I found this interesting because you often hear that radish is not a host.


"A five-way cover crop mix (winter wheat-clover-vetch-turnip-radish) significantly increased AMF."

http://igrow.org/agronomy/wheat/fall-cover-crops-boost-soil-arbuscular-mycorrhizal-fungi-which-can-lead-to/#sthash.foynEaul.dpuf


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## NaturalFarmer (Dec 18, 2016)

*Symbiosis: Mycorrhizae and Lichens*
http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/wong/BOT135/Lect26.htm


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## calliandra (Dec 19, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> I found this interesting because you often hear that radish is not a host.
> 
> 
> "A five-way cover crop mix (winter wheat-clover-vetch-turnip-radish) significantly increased AMF."
> ...


I think that may be just a commonly used cover crop mix, not all specifically good AM hosts. I often see grass + nitrogen fixer + brassica combos being used... so what they're saying to _me _is "hey! do the stuff sensible people are doing and all will be well "



Wetdog said:


> Great stuff from Rodale! ^^^
> 
> I'm using an older technique from the same place, but for smaller amounts. This involved a bed of inoculated leeks that would be dug up,30-50% of the roots cut off and then replanted. The cavities in the CBS blocks around my raised beds are perfect, holding ~1gal of mix and native soil underneath. Onions, chives and other Alliums work as well.
> 
> ...


What was it, 85% of all plants are mycorrhizal? 
So it will be good practice in _general _to cut the roots of our plants back into their soil when we recycle our pot soils, if we must  
I get this feeling that once we have the fungi back in our systems it will be more a question of making the best use of available resources like that, just by continually tending to them and fortifying their presence.
What's your impression on this?


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## NaturalFarmer (Dec 19, 2016)

I have been planting to entice whitetail on a garden plot as well and using Field peas, Hulless oat, Beet, daikon and crimson clover. The crimson clover is beautifully soft and would definitely recommend getting some.

"*We can boost fungi by boosting protozoa and the best way to do this is to plant peas in Summer. You might include three or four varieties including cowpeas, and you might toss in a sprinkle of fava beans. Boosting protozoa helps to manage bacterial overgrowth while also stimulating fungal numbers."

"the combination of oats and crimson clover is highly mycorrhizal."

"It has been shown that the generous, first exudations of annual rye serve as a superfood for soil life."

"Legumes release acids that break the bond between locked-up calcium and phosphorus in the soil, and both minerals are then available to the cash crop." 

"it is essential to have a legume beneath the cereal. "

"The daikon radish will not get much bigger than pencil-thin in this limited time frame before winter, but the first nutrients it will mine at this young stage will be boron, calcium and zinc"

"The first exudation of winter oats serves to make phosphorus (P) and potassium (K) available. However, it does not make P and K available when it is in full growth."

"If I was using 70 lbs of cereal rye per acre as my base and I decided to include winter barley at 10 lbs per acre then I would reduce the cereal rye at a rate of two-to-one. I would cut the cereal rye down to 50 lbs per acre. This ratio is essential because of the thick roots at the surface. However, if I was adding triticale, then it’s a one-to-one ratio. You really need to know the root dynamics. Triticale has a long skinny root, so if I add 10 lbs of triticale, I subtract 10 lbs of cereal rye."
*
http://www.lovehoneyberry.com/cocktail-cover-crop-secrets-part-one/
http://www.lovehoneyberry.com/cocktail-cover-crop-secrets-part-two/


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## GangusKush (Dec 19, 2016)

I've used a few different kinds of Mycorrhizal fungi over the past few years , and I firmly believe that it's best to use both granules and wettable powder, the combo of the two, such as great white shark and mykos right at the being of every transplant will drastically reduced transplant shock, the Mycorrhizal is quite literally a secondary root system!


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## mauricem00 (Dec 19, 2016)

I add it to my potting soil when I clean and recycle the soil. seems to help


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## platt (Dec 22, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> "*We can boost fungi by boosting protozoa and the best way to do this is to plant peas in Summer. *


yehaaaa!!

'kiddin



mauricem00 said:


> I add it to my potting soil when I clean and recycle the soil. seems to help


which brand or label ?


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## SahTiva (Mar 7, 2017)

The important thing to know here is endo vs ecto, endo will penetrate rootcells while ecto will not. 
While you could argue you need both, the brands that have 12 different types of mycos are just shoving un-needed shit in there for no reason.

Not trying to pick on any brands but 4oz of great white is like 30 bucks or way more at a grow store, when you can get an entire pound of the 4 main endo species for 20 bucks on amazon. Not trying to get link busted so just search on amazon (you'll thank me): 
*Endo Mycorrhizae (4 Species, 1LB Package)*

*Happy growing*


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## elfo777 (Mar 14, 2017)

Question!

I reuse my soil and was wondering if it's necessary to inoculate my plants every time? I heard mycorrhizae stays alive in the soil?


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 18, 2017)

elfo777 said:


> Question!
> 
> I reuse my soil and was wondering if it's necessary to inoculate my plants every time? I heard mycorrhizae stays alive in the soil?


Couldn't hurt.


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## NaturalFarmer (Mar 19, 2017)

Are you keeping the roots from your previous grow in the soil? Investigate a few and see how they did on the previous grow in terms of seeing any spores.


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## elfo777 (Mar 19, 2017)

NaturalFarmer said:


> Are you keeping the roots from your previous grow in the soil? Investigate a few and see how they did on the previous grow in terms of seeing any spores.
> 
> View attachment 3909131
> 
> View attachment 3909134


Yes I am, I don't keep all but I keep a reasonable amount of them in the soil. Im keeping some leaves there aswell. I bought more mycorrhizae anyway. _Glomus intraradices! 

;D_


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## calliandra (Mar 21, 2017)

elfo777 said:


> Question!
> 
> I reuse my soil and was wondering if it's necessary to inoculate my plants every time? I heard mycorrhizae stays alive in the soil?


The thing about reinnoculating is that you are putting the spores directly near the growing roots as opposed to the mycos being all over the place in your soil, especially if you're disturbing it between grows. 

Proximity helps. 
Because the plant sends out chemicals to kickstart fungal growth and guide them towards its roots, a process that is time-limited in that the fungus only has a certain amount of nutrients onboard, and needs to connect up with a plant for its carbon supply before it runs out.
So you're facilitating the establishment of the mycorrhizae by adding them in anyway.


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## elfo777 (Mar 22, 2017)

calliandra said:


> The thing about reinnoculating is that you are putting the spores directly near the growing roots as opposed to the mycos being all over the place in your soil, especially if you're disturbing it between grows.
> 
> Proximity helps.
> Because the plant sends out chemicals to kickstart fungal growth and guide them towards its roots, a process that is time-limited in that the fungus only has a certain amount of nutrients onboard, and needs to connect up with a plant for its carbon supply before it runs out.
> So you're facilitating the establishment of the mycorrhizae by adding them in anyway.


That's really helpful and interesting. Thanks.


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## SahTiva (Mar 22, 2017)

elfo777 said:


> That's really helpful and interesting. Thanks.


The common method is at every transplant, when you have them out of pot, mist the roots and sprinkle mycos directly on your roots contact is key, then repot as planned,

these are the best micos for the price imo:

https://www.amazon.com/Endo-Mycorrhizae-Species-1LB-Package/dp/B01MQ6M5B2/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1490221626&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=mycorrhizae&psc=1


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## tpc_mikey (Mar 25, 2017)

NewGrowth said:


> I love organic weed, it just does not work out well indoors. I grow everything else organic though, all my veggies in the garden are 100% organic. I also have one of these in my kitchen  http://www.naturemill.com/
> 
> Mushroom idea is cool huh!? It would be like "organic" CO2


Mine seems to do just fine indoors?


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## Diskokobaja (Mar 25, 2017)

I'm using AN ph perfrct line of nutes with pre fert soil.. How can I use it (mychro) and what brand??


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## tpc_mikey (Mar 29, 2017)

Diskokobaja said:


> I'm using AN ph perfrct line of nutes with pre fert soil.. How can I use it (mychro) and what brand??


Fox farms makes one called bushmaster i just gave my 2 there first drink with it its a mirobial brew you add to water.


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## Jared Cox (May 29, 2017)

Fox Farms Happy Frog dry fert has myco loaded plus others. I love it.


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## tpc_mikey (May 29, 2017)

Check out a product call Recharge its loaded, I have added this to my organic grow and it has proved to be a must have!!!
This girl is probably 105 to 110 days old and she has received nothing but water, all her nutrients have come from the soil and from top dressings of bat guano, kelp meal and tomato tone.


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## Diskokobaja (May 30, 2017)

Thank you sooo much guys , only problem is Im in Balkan and fox farm isnt avaible for us, and I think recharge too..


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## Nugachino (May 30, 2017)

When I've got money again. I'm seriously going to put down a couple pineapples for things like this. I wanna spread it over the whole yard too. Get all the things going.

I managed to get a bag of strawberry clover the other day. That's supposed to improve the soil too. Something about absorbing toxins. I forget. Then again. I was high as a mofo when I was told what it does.


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## calliandra (Jun 1, 2017)

Diskokobaja said:


> Thank you sooo much guys , only problem is Im in Balkan and fox farm isnt avaible for us, and I think recharge too..





Diskokobaja said:


> I'm using AN ph perfrct line of nutes with pre fert soil.. How can I use it (mychro) and what brand??


There's also These guys, closer to where you are: https://gluckspilze.com/Mycorrhiza, the "soluble" variety would be right for pot plants.
However, as long as you're using chemical nutes, you won't have much success. Every time you add those salts to your soil, you will be killing off parts of the microbial population, including those mycorrhizae. And beneficial microbes just don't establish as quickly as harmful ones, as they're setting up home for the long haul, as opposed to detrimental ones, who have a "let's party till we die" mentality. 
So basically, by using chemical ferts and mycos, you're doing a one-step-forward-one-step-back kind of dance, mainly making the people who are selling you that stuff rich 
HTH!


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## tpc_mikey (Jun 1, 2017)

Diskokobaja said:


> Thank you sooo much guys , only problem is Im in Balkan and fox farm isnt avaible for us, and I think recharge too..


Get on amazon you can get anything from there and as long as you have mail service and internet you can get it.


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## DonTesla (Jun 1, 2017)

@Diskokobaja you can also grow your own myco fungi for pennies on the dollar of normal costs!! Just need a little raised bed or select spot, a few square feet and you can bring that cost down to next to zero


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## DonTesla (Jun 1, 2017)

tpc_mikey said:


> Get on amazon you can get anything from there and as long as you have mail service and internet you can get it.


Amazon has mad restrictions still in certain countries.. even Canada, I don't get one thing off of Amazon actually. Americans have it really good in this regard.


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## Diskokobaja (Jun 2, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> @Diskokobaja you can also grow your own myco fungi for pennies on the dollar of normal costs!! Just need a little raised bed or select spot, a few square feet and you can bring that cost down to next to zero



Dude I live in Condo, on 3rd floor without elevator.. If you can see my soil smuggling action you will be amaised..


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## DonTesla (Jun 2, 2017)

Diskokobaja said:


> Dude I live in Condo, on 3rd floor without elevator.. If you can see my soil smuggling action you will be amaised..


oh shit, nice, lol, respect my friend, respect. Reminds me of the DonPetro stories I recall about him crawling under houses and through crazy tunnels to get to his lovelies..The things we do for the things we love / need eh..


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## Dutchieman420 (Jun 2, 2017)

Diskokobaja said:


> I'm using AN ph perfrct line of nutes with pre fert soil.. How can I use it (mychro) and what brand??



I am using G&B organics for citrus trees! It's done the job not only for my indoor buds but my outdoor veggies as well. Very effective and only 9$ at the hydroshop


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## BRANDON77 (Jun 3, 2017)

I recently switched from Hydro to using fox farms coco loco and ocean forest. I recently ran out of great white, and will be replacing with mykos and using compost teas (I studied this sites sticky). I plan to add in, hydrolized fish and kelp extract to my compost tea. What else can I use to bring up the micro-organisms to create a solid food web. Using soil is much different than hydro (im fairly new). Would love some advice? azos maybe?


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## redzi (Jul 1, 2017)

I have ran ocean forest with and without mykos and would have to say that they must do a decent job at getting a healthy mix of needed bacteria because I see no difference when using great white. When the plant is moving towards flowering is when I get some return on $$$ for the liquid mykos mixed with kelp extract. The down side is that the fungus gnats love it to.


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## Dutchieman420 (Jul 1, 2017)

BRANDON77 said:


> I recently switched from Hydro to using fox farms coco loco and ocean forest. I recently ran out of great white, and will be replacing with mykos and using compost teas (I studied this sites sticky). I plan to add in, hydrolized fish and kelp extract to my compost tea. What else can I use to bring up the micro-organisms to create a solid food web. Using soil is much different than hydro (im fairly new). Would love some advice? azos maybe?


There is a few different micorgs that can be beneficial. This dr Earth Nitrogen fixing soil inoculant is great to Kickstart at veg


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## BlackBean (Jul 5, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> @Diskokobaja you can also grow your own myco fungi for pennies on the dollar of normal costs!! Just need a little raised bed or select spot, a few square feet and you can bring that cost down to next to zero



DonTesla please explain. I'm very interested in this


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## DonTesla (Jul 5, 2017)

BlackBean said:


> DonTesla please explain. I'm very interested in this


I will search for my post on it and repost it for you soon as I locate it.


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## BlackBean (Jul 5, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> I will search for my post on it and repost it for you soon as I locate it.


Perfect thank you!


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## DonTesla (Jul 5, 2017)

BlackBean said:


> Perfect thank you!


As promised... 
Post 1965 in the Dons thread.


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## BlackBean (Jul 5, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> As promised...
> Post 1965 in the Dons thread.
> View attachment 3972814


You da man!


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## ANC (Jul 5, 2017)

I just make a pile of lawn clippings, after a while you can dig out pure white mycelium covered bits from the bottom.
The compost I use also comes pre-inoculated.It is pretty important if your compost contains lots of wood. (not ideal, but not a deal breaker)


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## Nugachino (Jul 5, 2017)

I'm still trying to source some myco or something that I can plant with it in it. Bloody straya mate.


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## calliandra (Jul 5, 2017)

ANC said:


> I just make a pile of lawn clippings, after a while you can dig out pure white mycelium covered bits from the bottom.
> The compost I use also comes pre-inoculated.It is pretty important if your compost contains lots of wood. (not ideal, but not a deal breaker)


That white "mycelium" in your clippings is much more likely to be actinobacteria, as fresh lawn clippings are relatively high in nitrogen - not the environment beneficial saprophytic fungi (which is the kind you will have in that woody compost) like.

100% not mycorrhizal fungi though, since by and large mycorrhizal fungi only grow in the company of living roots (although scientists _have _found switchers, who can live on their own until a root comes along).


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## ANC (Jul 5, 2017)

I will look into it. It looks just like mycelium though.


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## calliandra (Jul 5, 2017)

ANC said:


> I will look into it. It looks just like mycelium though.


Yeah actually they have an alternate name too, actino_mycetes,_ because of their strandlike morphology, so, easy to confuse with a legit fungus


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## GrowingMacGyver (Sep 19, 2017)

Did anyone type in the web address for the grow your own Mycorrhiza post? JW if anyone else was able to bring up the rest of the article?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 25, 2017)

I thought using a living cover crop would take care of mycorrhiza????


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## Nugachino (Nov 25, 2017)

The cover crop allows the mycos something to grow with.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 25, 2017)

Nugachino said:


> The cover crop allows the mycos something to grow with.


So I have to continue to use great white but the cover crop helps it out


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 25, 2017)

Great white is just soo expensive what a cheaper but equal substitute


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## calliandra (Nov 26, 2017)

In theory, if you have a no-till and get a mycorrhizal network established in there, you needn't add any more spores.

I say in theory because I haven't been able to verify this in practice yet - I'm still busy getting the basic soil food web established


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## elfo777 (Dec 26, 2017)

I just found this in my soil. It looks like mold spores, is this benefitial or not? I used myco to inoculate my roots 2 times, growing 100% organic using biobizz nutes and guanos. Im watering every 6 or 7 days so im sure it's not an humidity issue. Why are all my plants growing this mold? It looks its spreading quickly. I don't have any other plagues.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 26, 2017)

elfo777 said:


> I just found this in my soil. It looks like mold spores, is this benefitial or not? I used myco to inoculate my roots 2 times, growing 100% organic using biobizz nutes and guanos. Im watering every 6 or 7 days so im sure it's not an humidity issue. Why are all my plants growing this mold? It looks its spreading quickly. I don't have any other plagues.


Pics under normal light help!


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## greencropper (Dec 26, 2017)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Great white is just soo expensive what a cheaper but equal substitute


here are 2 good quality cheaper in bulk types available in Australia, possibly if you search Google US you may find equivalent 
https://biostim.com.au/shop/myco-gold/
https://www.mycoapply.com.au/mycoapply-maxx/


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## elfo777 (Dec 27, 2017)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Pics under normal light help!


I got a small chunk of earth from the soil, this is the most I could gather. It looks like a thin layer on top of the soil with really fluffy small white hairs. The "mold" looks really white as you can see in this pic.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 27, 2017)

Ar


elfo777 said:


> I got a small chunk of earth from the soil, this is the most I could gather. It looks like a thin layer on top of the soil with really fluffy small white hairs. The "mold" looks really white as you can see in this pic.


Are you using bokashi, bc if so that's mycelium which is very good for your soil!


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## elfo777 (Dec 27, 2017)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Ar
> 
> Are you using bokashi, bc if so that's mycelium which is very good for your soil!


I bought a product called micro vita from Top Crop nutrient brand (european), I can't find what it has but it contained a lot of beneficial bacteria and fungi (at least the label says so). Maybe it is because of that. It has taken months for me to see this. I noticed a yellow leaf fell on the soil and it was completely covered in white like in my previous pic. I thought I was developing mold. It's raining a lot here so while im not overwatering the humidity can get high sometimes.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 27, 2017)

elfo777 said:


> I bought a product called micro vita from Top Crop nutrient brand (european), I can't find what it has but it contained a lot of beneficial bacteria and fungi (at least the label says so). Maybe it is because of that. It has taken months for me to see this. I noticed a yellow leaf fell on the soil and it was completely covered in white like in my previous pic. I thought I was developing mold. It's raining a lot here so while im not overwatering the humidity can get high sometimes.


Then yes my guess would be thata mycelium growing and that's a good thing, sorry I can't really teach u more but u should Google it. If I had to put money on it that's what I'd say it is!


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## smokin away (Jan 17, 2018)

GrowingMacGyver said:


> Did anyone type in the web address for the grow your own Mycorrhiza post? JW if anyone else was able to bring up the rest of the article?


Been using this. Cheap for what it does. Like the concentrate as directed. Only takes 1/8tsp for five quart (concentrate form). Granular is great soil additive. Mix it with nutes and pH for soil. Looking for tea to sub for nutes instead.
www.theamericanrootcompany.com


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## Go go n chill (Jul 24, 2018)

Is this good stuff? It’s in my outside vegetable garden, which I amended and added FFOF. If it is good I think I’d be afraid to add it to my indoor grow because of bugs.
I’m speaki of the white web


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jul 24, 2018)

Go go n chill said:


> Is this good stuff? It’s in my outside vegetable garden, which I amended and added FFOF. If it is good I think I’d be afraid to add it to my indoor grow because of bugs.
> I’m speaki of the white web


Looks like roots to me!


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## Go go n chill (Jul 24, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Looks like roots to me!


I thought I had a better picture. It wasn’t connected to my potato plants but it is a bright white web running along my mounds


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jul 24, 2018)

Go go n chill said:


> I thought I had a better picture. It wasn’t connected to my potato plants but it is a bright white web running along my mounds


Unfortunately I can't really say without seeing it better! BUT here are some pics of mycelium growth I have had!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jul 24, 2018)

My advise just buy some bokashi or grokashi


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## jblumpkin (Jul 24, 2018)

Any fungus found not directly growing on roots is highly likely to be a saprophytic, non-mycorrhyzal organism. Not that that's a bad thing, saprophytic fungi are the main decomposers of organic matter and are important in nutrient cycling although it's not mycorrhizal fungi.


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## jblumpkin (Jul 24, 2018)

Now if you're after mycorrhizal fungi what you're looking for is AMF (arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi).AMF is a type of endomycorrhizal fungi (penetrates plant cells) that pairs with 80% of land plants including cannabis. There's a few strains of AMF you propably know already ie. Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, ect. It can be found growing directly on plant roots - it doesn't grow without a host plant, so you won't find it in multiplying in compost, manures and teas (that's saprophytic fungi you see). Because of this dependence on a host plant, AMF is more expensive to produce as lab techniques can't multiply them effectively (the spores can be manipulated but they will not complete their life cycle without a host).

On the other hand Ectomycorrhizal fungi (what's loaded in a lot of "myco blends") doesn't pair with anything but certain tree species Ecto can be propagated without a host plant so it's cheaper to produce. That's why resellers add it -- to look like more props per container. Some shady stuff going on.


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## jblumpkin (Jul 24, 2018)

There's pure AMF inoculants for sale you can find online like BioAg VAM, Mykos, Mycorrhizal Applications, ect.

However research has shown mixed results on how effective these commercial inoculants are. The most infectious part of mycorrhizal fungi, the mycelium hyphae, doesn't survive long without a host plant. In inoculants they are surely 'dead' (spores while less infectious have a hard shell that protects them and helps their shelf life). For more info about prop count vs spore count read this https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/quantifying-mycorrhizae-spores-vs-propagules-why-mike-mason-jd-mba

For a few dollars you can make your own mycorrhizal fungi trap cultures like this https://moldresistantstrains.com/diy-how-to-make-mycorrhizal-fungi-inoculant/ maybe not worth it for small-scale applications but for bigger set-ups it will deff help save some money.


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## Go go n chill (Jul 25, 2018)

Anyone ever used something called 
PB1?


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## Bubblin (Jul 25, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> My advise just buy some bokashi or grokashi


I can usually get a nice layer going in coco or soil with just a simple cover crop and recharge or great white once every few weeks, _grokashi is awesome sauce tho_.

I had a nice layer going on the noTill coco mix my snake plants are in. But I'm replacing that cover crop seed mix with a different one, the old CC had too many vine like species, weeding indoor/house plants = meh lol.


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## Go go n chill (Jul 25, 2018)

Bubblin said:


> I can usually get a nice layer going in coco or soil with just a simple cover crop and recharge or great white once every few weeks, _grokashi is awesome sauce tho_.
> 
> I had a nice layer going on the noTill coco mix my snake plants are in. But I'm replacing that cover crop seed mix with a different one, the old CC had too many vine like species, weeding indoor/house plants = meh lol.


 I use Mykos Extreme and I noticed bigger roots with it but never “the web” in my soil of my med garden


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## Bubblin (Jul 26, 2018)

Go go n chill said:


> I use Mykos Extreme and I noticed bigger roots with it but never “the web” in my soil of my med garden


mm I never get a web on the top of the medium, usually just a light white layer of fungi growing around the base of the cover crop.

Isn't Mykos only mycorrhiza?
You could try something like recharge / great white, both are loaded with many types of bacteria and fungi, including mycorrhiza.


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## pollen205 (Aug 2, 2018)

maybe stupid question but...

wil I harm some how if I add mykos,azos, biotabs mycrotex and in biobizz soil I have some mzcroriyhie so that are 3 source of this bacteria in soil
will the maybe get aggressive to each other


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## jblumpkin (Aug 9, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> maybe stupid question but...
> 
> wil I harm some how if I add mykos,azos, biotabs mycrotex and in biobizz soil I have some mzcroriyhie so that are 3 source of this bacteria in soil
> will the maybe get aggressive to each other


Not 100% sure of the answer to that, but there is some evidence that Tricoderma can interfere with Mycorrhizal fungi colonization, at least during it's early stages ResearchGate has a lot of talk about this- https://www.researchgate.net/post/Does_Trichoderma_interfere_with_mycorrhizae_root_colonization


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Ohsogreen said:


> .
> Chookface..... Yes, Sub-Culture is a decent amendment. I've noticed they now sell it in a Myco fungi only mix & a Good Bacteria only mix. Hmmmm......
> .
> GH sures knows how to make a buck. They break everything down to lot's of parts - so they can make lot's of dough - selling you all the parts.
> ...


just to chip in here as a maker of Mycos. Not all are equal. I tested a great many during an evaluation for mining restoration before I started to make my own, and many of the products we tested came back with number of viable spores so low there was a high probability no symbiosis was possible. After live testing and the taking of root samples, this was born out with many of the products failing to produce any living Mycorrhizas.
Now this might be a storage issue, or it could be a production/ manufacturer failure, but a large number of the cheaper end where literally hopeless, and many of the higher priced ones too.
there was no difference between iquid or powders both were poor.
Some cheaper products are lab grown non resonant microbes, so there is a good deal of jet lag before the microbes get up to speed on what they ought to be doing.

Additionally there a wide number of reasons to not buy Mycos, depending on how you grow. if you use large volumes of P2O5 for example, have insufficient Calcium access and so on.

I agree with the fundamentals of this discussion, growing with Mycos is to use an evolutionary advantage over non using growers. Myco grown cannabis has more trichs and so more meds as a rule than non myco plants. The reasons are simply outlined in this thread, its about stimulation, modulation and up-regulation of Innate Systemic Responses pre loaded in our plants. Mycos boost up the plants own defenses, they protect from root pathogens, and from environmental stressors.
if you are a grower who prefers to let nature rule, they are a definite tool for the box, i wouldnt plant without them.

Because i use Mycos, i dont have to apply excessive P2O5, and this sits well with me knowing I am as an outdoor grower, not participating in water table pollution, and that i am sequestering more carbon building media fertility instead


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> maybe stupid question but...
> 
> wil I harm some how if I add mykos,azos, biotabs mycrotex and in biobizz soil I have some mzcroriyhie so that are 3 source of this bacteria in soil
> will the maybe get aggressive to each other


hello
Mycorrhizal fungi organise the biome of bacteria required, additional unwanted or potentially harmful microbes are typically kept away by the epigenetic ability of the fungus to generate unique proteins and or compounds, or simply by hoarding all the resources, as in the case of calcium. 
We think Mycos are rendering insufficient access to calcium for many other fungal groups, and thus this prevents them gaining a foothold. But that is a simplified reality i suspect and it could be a suitcase full of systems that matter.
It is hard to study organisms that can literally create brand new compounds or proteins on demand when faced with new problems to manage and so understanding the full extent of the interactions is still someway off in our academic futures.

I suspect the thing in your post suffering the most will be your wallet if you are applying all of these products.


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

calliandra said:


> In theory, if you have a no-till and get a mycorrhizal network established in there, you needn't add any more spores.
> 
> I say in theory because I haven't been able to verify this in practice yet - I'm still busy getting the basic soil food web established


you are quite right. No till is about leaving the biome intact as much as it is about the soil stability.


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

elfo777 said:


> I just found this in my soil. It looks like mold spores, is this benefitial or not? I used myco to inoculate my roots 2 times, growing 100% organic using biobizz nutes and guanos. Im watering every 6 or 7 days so im sure it's not an humidity issue. Why are all my plants growing this mold? It looks its spreading quickly. I don't have any other plagues.


I suspect it is actinomycetes growing because a) you have high moisture, and b) you have lots of organic material. This white fuzz people see is more normally not mycorrhizal, but Actinomycetes which is an N fixing mold type bacteria and extremely common component of composting


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Go go n chill said:


> Is this good stuff? It’s in my outside vegetable garden, which I amended and added FFOF. If it is good I think I’d be afraid to add it to my indoor grow because of bugs.
> I’m speaki of the white web


potatoes do associate with endomycorrhizal fungi but the pic isnt clear enough. Mycos are extremely small and very hard to see with the naked eye. 
Just as an FYI and i aint saying this is whatt you are seeing here.....The three most common colonizers of potato roots detected in studys in the Adean wild are: _Funneliformis mosseae_, an unknown _Claroideoglomus_ sp., and _Rhizophagus irregularis_. it has been noted that potatoes associate with 8 of the 11 Glomeromycota families. Hope this helps


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Unfortunately I can't really say without seeing it better! BUT here are some pics of mycelium growth I have had!


very active that picture, super work


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> My advise just buy some bokashi or grokashi


word, Bokashi makes the best tasting herbs ever too, win win, 50g per 20L is enough imo.


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

jblumpkin said:


> Any fungus found not directly growing on roots is highly likely to be a saprophytic, non-mycorrhyzal organism. Not that that's a bad thing, saprophytic fungi are the main decomposers of organic matter and are important in nutrient cycling although it's not mycorrhizal fungi.


agreed, most people are seeing Actinobac and making an assumption it mycos. there is a picture above which shows both the darker near orange brown mycos surrounded by various mycetes, yeasts and related bacteria


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## Ecompost (Aug 14, 2018)

BRANDON77 said:


> I recently switched from Hydro to using fox farms coco loco and ocean forest. I recently ran out of great white, and will be replacing with mykos and using compost teas (I studied this sites sticky). I plan to add in, hydrolized fish and kelp extract to my compost tea. What else can I use to bring up the micro-organisms to create a solid food web. Using soil is much different than hydro (im fairly new). Would love some advice? azos maybe?


Different inputs result in different communities of microbes. There are some good studies which can help, I'd link you up but i cant paste URLs as a newbie.
This is all well and good data, but first you really have to know what you have first before you risk altering the balance. By far the best amendment for soil to grow short day crops is just good quality compost.


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## pollen205 (Aug 18, 2018)

Can I put mykos on top of my soil and water it from time to time
And can I do this with azos too

I go from seed to final pot so never transplant a plant...
How do I apply azos and mykos and how often


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## Greenthumbs256 (Aug 18, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> Can I put mykos on top of my soil and water it from time to time
> And can I do this with azos too
> 
> I go from seed to final pot so never transplant a plant...
> How do I apply azos and mykos and how often


I think mykos has to be in direct contact with roots in order to work


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## Ecompost (Aug 18, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> Can I put mykos on top of my soil and water it from time to time
> And can I do this with azos too
> 
> I go from seed to final pot so never transplant a plant...
> How do I apply azos and mykos and how often


put it in at seeding time, yes you can top dress it if forked in to soil and not left to the elements of weather etc. watering it in would also work


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## pollen205 (Aug 18, 2018)

I put mykos in soil and in hole when my seed will go... off course I do that, but I want to know if I top dress my soil with it and azos will the bacteria penetrate thru roots
I see from mendo dope that they put mykos on top of soil so wondering will it help 

Or maybe can I put mykos and azos in bucket and put air pump with air stone....


----------



## Ecompost (Aug 18, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> I put mykos in soil and in hole when my seed will go... off course I do that, but I want to know if I top dress my soil with it and azos will the bacteria penetrate thru roots
> I see from mendo dope that they put mykos on top of soil so wondering will it help
> 
> Or maybe can I put mykos and azos in bucket and put air pump with air stone....


if you have added it, you dont need to re-add it. If it has failed at germination, it wont work via top dress. Endophores are just that, they cant help but infect roots or plant cells, its their nature


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## Ecompost (Aug 18, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> I put mykos in soil and in hole when my seed will go... off course I do that, but I want to know if I top dress my soil with it and azos will the bacteria penetrate thru roots
> I see from mendo dope that they put mykos on top of soil so wondering will it help
> 
> Or maybe can I put mykos and azos in bucket and put air pump with air stone....


perhaps this will help

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms1046

and
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2013.00426/full


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## pollen205 (Aug 18, 2018)

so when they say put azos 1 or 2 time in week in veg how do I do that, with water or on top of soil...


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## Ecompost (Aug 19, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> so when they say put azos 1 or 2 time in week in veg how do I do that, with water or on top of soil...


I have no idea why they say add it so frequently, I dont use it, but if its a dry material, yes top dress, lightly fork it in and water to at least 2-4cm


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## pollen205 (Aug 23, 2018)

Does any body know how much time last mycro life in soil...And how often I must add more microbes to my soil..
From what I have read about organic is that beneficial life come to die in some point...I dont know why this is happening so can any one explaien why life come to die at some point and we dont put salts and not organic ammendmants and fertilazer at soil...
So what kill mzcrorazhie and other bacteria and fungi...life clock or some bad microbes....


----------



## Ecompost (Aug 24, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> Does any body know how much time last mycro life in soil...And how often I must add more microbes to my soil..
> From what I have read about organic is that beneficial life come to die in some point...I dont know why this is happening so can any one explaien why life come to die at some point and we dont put salts and not organic ammendmants and fertilazer at soil...
> So what kill mzcrorazhie and other bacteria and fungi...life clock or some bad microbes....


Question 1
Forever in the right conditions, how old is the old growth forest, well this long at least right?

Question 2
Only way to know if you need to add micros is microscoping you soil samples and or easier if you ask me, CO2 Burst rate test. This is not week 1 week 2 bullshit.

Question 3.
Aerobic microbes need Oxygen, rates over 6ppm of DO2 this is dissolved oxygen, lower rates of DO2 will kill off Mycos and Aerobic bacteria. Instead you will get Anaerobic bacteria, and this wont be good for your plant which wants to breathe O2 in and CO2 out.
Some of your bennies can flip flop between Aerobic and Anaerobic, so what once helped will now decay.
The hotter the water, the less oxygen it can carry. At 21c water holds 7ppms DO2 and no you cant add more with an air pump unless the temp changes. One more thing to save money on 
Microbes are 70% water, and they need soil moisture rates between 40-60% to function well. Either side of this and forget it, you are losing life.
Finally these organisms are tiny and work fast and hard and so die fast and hard.
There are a few way to spot things going wrong but you need a microscope and a CO2 burst rate test.

I would take a look at Microbial Feedback Loops to understand better life cycles of soil biota

hope that helps


----------



## pollen205 (Aug 24, 2018)

you help

so from now when I tap water I will take colder water not to cold but settings on cold 

Do you know will x1000 hd usb microscope or some x1000 labaratory micrsoscope will see the soil life or how many x I need 

thank you


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## Ecompost (Aug 24, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> you help
> 
> so from now when I tap water I will take colder water not to cold but settings on cold
> 
> ...


the key is balance. So get a temp gauge so you can measure root zone temps. Try to get an average around 18-21C but anyway keep it under 25C.
Plants will have a special growth marker point where consecutive days over 25C means all manner of weirdness. EG Hermies and or Bolting just two examples

I have a root temp between the rate above and a canopy average below 25C. This is an overall average not set. it does get much higher, when it does i need to work harder to lower the overall to keep my averages in check.

yes a x400 compound scope is enough. I use a 40-2500 see here https://www.microscopenet.com/omax-40x2500x-builtin-30mp-digital-camera-compound-binocular-microscope-vinyl-carrying-case-p-11101.html


and you are welcome brother


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## Budden (Sep 18, 2018)

I’ve been a loyal reader of this site for a few years now, and I’ve gathered shit tons of valuable info from it. I started with DWC, after a few grows I moved to coco and now I’m diving into organic SS. I’m getting my poop in a group, no pun intended, and came across Jobes compost starter 4-4-2 with micros. See attachment for contents. Would this be a good amendment choice?


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## AkFrost (Dec 17, 2018)

There is a Tester now a days to estimate how much micro life is in your soil. It’s called the MicroBiometer. I heard Jeff Lowenfells recommend it in one of his speeches.


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## AkFrost (Dec 17, 2018)

Here is the speech I was talking about. 



 It fits right in this forum perfectly. From what I have heard rhizophagus intraradices is the only mycorrhizae known to benefit cannabis. I am no expert by any means. If I remember right Jeff tells us what else it might be called when we go to buy it in this video. I also have Jeff’s third book on the way Teaming with Fungi. Hope you enjoy. P.S. sorry if this is repeated info I haven’t read this whole forum yet.


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## Go go n chill (Jan 14, 2019)

jblumpkin said:


> Any fungus found not directly growing on roots is highly likely to be a saprophytic, non-mycorrhyzal organism. Not that that's a bad thing, saprophytic fungi are the main decomposers of organic matter and are important in nutrient cycling although it's not mycorrhizal fungi.


Thx


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## Ecompost (Jan 27, 2019)

AkFrost said:


> There is a Tester now a days to estimate how much micro life is in your soil. It’s called the MicroBiometer. I heard Jeff Lowenfells recommend it in one of his speeches.


I dont know what this is, but you can certainly test for CO2 burst rates. I would be careful buying more bloody gadgets. It is the breathing events we can monitor, no need for a device.





Forget Jeff, its Rick Haney and Will brinton that brought this to the table. Solvita Soil CO2-Burst Test. The test reveals active carbon in soil following a controlled drying and rewetting cycle. The test measures from 0 to 120 ppm CO2-C (24hr). Allows predicting N-mineralization and accurately estimating biomass.

I am not sure we can say anything definite about nature, eg only one VAM interacts with Cannabis. may be this is true of the cultivars he grows in the conditions he grows them? Is it true on a Landrace in Afghanistan, or Kerela, Thailand, Africa, Colombia?


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## ShLUbY (Jan 28, 2019)

Ecompost said:


> I dont know what this is, but you can certainly test for CO2 burst rates. I would be careful buying more bloody gadgets. It is the breathing events we can monitor, no need for a device.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


agreed. there is so much diversity in nature, and we simply don't know the synergistic relationships that occur with cannabis and mycorrhizal fungi in the presence of bacteria or other fungi that are not in our indoor cultivation practices. it's very possible that we can't create the conditions that are favorable for other mycorrhizal fungi to infect the roots of this plant due to lack of diversity in the soil. with so much lack of research, we can not say anything is definitive at that point


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## pollen205 (Feb 1, 2019)

Can you give me some advice how can I Grow mycellium on top of my soil...
Last Grow I top dress mykos from xtreme on top of my soil and then mulch with straw...
And that give me some mycellium but only 20% of my top soil...
This Grow I want whole top soil to be with mycelium
I heard about gro kashi but I can’t GET IT in EUROPE so Like to hear some Experience grower


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## ShLUbY (Feb 1, 2019)

pollen205 said:


> Can you give me some advice how can I Grow mycellium on top of my soil...
> Last Grow I top dress mykos from xtreme on top of my soil and then mulch with straw...
> And that give me some mycellium but only 20% of my top soil...
> This Grow I want whole top soil to be with mycelium
> I heard about gro kashi but I can’t GET IT in EUROPE so Like to hear some Experience grower


just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isnt there. stop thinking about what YOU want and think about what the SOIL wants. I'd say you're already doing what you can.


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## Ecompost (Feb 10, 2019)

pollen205 said:


> Can you give me some advice how can I Grow mycellium on top of my soil...
> Last Grow I top dress mykos from xtreme on top of my soil and then mulch with straw...
> And that give me some mycellium but only 20% of my top soil...
> This Grow I want whole top soil to be with mycelium
> I heard about gro kashi but I can’t GET IT in EUROPE so Like to hear some Experience grower


make it. Grokashi is a proprietary name and means nothing. Bokashi instructions are everywhere online  I make Bokashi in Europe from non medicated cow shit, I use it at 50g per 1m3.
I also make Silicic acid based products which are awesome for freeing trapped P, also helping to reduce the numbers of bondable options for P2O5 via the formation of silicates, thereby making many other essential elements more available to our plants too, EG Ca, Mg, Cu, Mn and so on. Again you can make this with diatomaceous earth, but this is produced by Mycos, the Si I mean.

Why do you want Mycos in your top layers, what is the benefit do you think?

I might direct you to understanding the differences between decomposing and humifying microbes, you might make more sense to yourself once you know this.


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## Xs121 (Feb 17, 2019)

First time I've used endomycorrhizae in my grow, not even in soil but in perlite+hydroton combination. And I'm loving the result.

I'm not organic yet (future plan is no-till) and still using liquid fertilizer but it cut my fertilizer down to 1/16 (almost nothing) from full strength. Those fungi are pretty darn efficient in passing the nutrient to the plant.

2 weeks root growth from solo cup to 1 gallon container (huge root hairs)



2 weeks old Mycorrhizae root infection



I've read that it takes 4 months for endomycorrhizae to fully colonize and to spread out their hypae but I'm impressed with its performance in even just 2 weeks.

My future plan is to pre-culture my growing medium with endomycos and grow some grass in it and let it sit for 4 months or more before using it for my grow. Would be an interesting project.


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## DonBrennon (Feb 18, 2019)

Xs121 said:


> I've read that it takes 4 months for endomycorrhizae to fully colonize and to spread out their hypae but I'm impressed with its performance in even just 2 weeks.
> 
> My future plan is to pre-culture my growing medium with endomycos and grow some grass in it and let it sit for 4 months or more before using it for my grow. Would be an interesting project.


Like your plan. Have you got a certain species of Myco planned for use or one of the broader spectrum products?


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## Xs121 (Feb 18, 2019)

I used EcoMyc"Cannabis" Mycorrhizae though they don't list what or how many species is in their product, I suspect that this product is just a renamed of their original product 
* EcoMyc "Nature" Mycorrhizae Soil Amendment - OMRI-Listed*
which according to OMRi, it contained 4 species of Glomus


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## Grow~Master (Feb 24, 2019)

I use Alive Soil Activator, before I put down my seedlings. It's only $10 for a 1Lb bag. Find it at Gardensalive.com 

Description: Biodiversity is key to creating a healthy root zone environment for plants of all kinds, and this unique soil activator helps you create such an environment. In areas of your garden where soil is stressed, depleted, or underperforming, Alive!™ Soil Activator helps repair and prepare soil for planting. By combining beneficial bacteria and fungi necessary for plant growth, this mix will help jump-start poor soil for your garden and container plantings, while microbes help plants absorb and convert nutrients in the soil. Works perfectly for preparing soil for vegetables, fruits, countless ornamentals, shrubs, and trees. Use 1 lb per 300 sq ft, or 1 teaspoon in a 4-6" flower pot.


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## Grow~Master (Feb 24, 2019)

buffalosoulja said:


> I currently use molasses in my tea, will adding the mychorrzae not help then.


Molasses is a perfect food source for beneficial bacteria and fungus; good job.


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## Novabudd (Feb 24, 2019)

thelastpirate said:


> Thanx for bumping this thread. There must be something wrong with the search function, 'cuz when I use it, I get alot of worthless, unrelated shit. I have been interested in mycorrhizae for a couple of months now, but could find very little here on RIU.
> Has anyone ever tried BioTone starter Plus? I have already mixed the soil for this next grow, so it's probably a moot point, but I'm interested in any first hand knowledge opinions as to it's efficacy.
> My reason for going with the BioTone over the other product with mycorrhizae only was the fact that it contained the other trace minerals (purportedly organic) as well.
> I _FINALLY_ found a local source for bat guano and worm castings!!!! Joy!!! It's kinda funny when you start asking Q's about the organic ferts like guano, worm castings, kelp etc. I'm pretty sure that they know whats up. Not a whole lot of people (veggie growers) who go to this nursery know much about mycorrhizae or guano. Careful how much you let slip. I got a _"knowing look"_ from the sales clerk. But it's all good, I'm pretty sure she smokes too!


Coastal folks here have been using kelp in veggie garden for couple hundred years. We're not allowed to gather it here now . Gauno is pretty new here but the back-to-the-land farmers co-ops have been pushing it for a few years. Same with worm castings ( both are expensive here). There's a guy about hour from here with a worm farm, i've been considering starting to farm them for my own gardens. Most of the garden centres here hire school kids who usually know nothing about the products they sell. All in all, after this long rambling speech , i wouldnt worry what garden centre people thought. They just wanna sell you stuff.


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## Cali.Grown>408 (May 29, 2019)

Don’t let the soil temp get to high. Use cover crop seed or white clovers seeds. Never let medium dry out


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## PagingMrHerman (Jul 2, 2019)

What’s up everyone. I had to read this thread twice to get grasp on mycorrhizae. Admittedly the first read I was medicated. I picked up a product called endo4 that I plan on root dusting clones before sog. Usually veg for two weeks then flip. I’m hoping they have enough time to reap the benefits with a shorter time limit. 
I haven’t heard any reviews on the endo4 so if anyone has used it I’d appreciate your thoughts. 
I also picked up gardens alive soil activator and my plan is to play around with the two and see which works best. Use one on some and both on some and try to see which is better. Thanks


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## mordynyc (Sep 16, 2019)

Anyone ever use MycoSMart Endo 4? 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q252T7Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 
1/2lb for 10 bux, worth the wait. 
Same ingredients as mykos (scientists renamed glomus to something something irregularis)


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## Synch22 (Mar 2, 2020)

I planted some seeds 10 days ago and now they are in 7 days while they sprouted.
I added myco at the base where I planted the seeds.
Seedlings are growing very slowly.
Does adding myco to the soil make seedlings focus more on their roots before they show leaf growth?
Im kinda worried as in previous grows at day 7 plants were bigger and also this time I've made improvements on lot of things.
Thank u


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## PadawanWarrior (Mar 3, 2020)

Synch22 said:


> I planted some seeds 10 days ago and now they are in 7 days while they sprouted.
> I added myco at the base where I planted the seeds.
> Seedlings are growing very slowly.
> Does adding myco to the soil make seedlings focus more on their roots before they show leaf growth?
> ...


Not a bad thread to bring back from the dead, lol. Mykos kicks ass. And I've never overdone it.

I would guess transplant shock, or whatever new you're doing different this time.


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## mordynyc (Mar 3, 2020)

So i tested endo 4 it seems to make the roots furry even in paper towel. 
I snow some on after taproot now like


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## Synch22 (Mar 3, 2020)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Not a bad thread to bring back from the dead, lol. Mykos kicks ass. And I've never overdone it.
> 
> I would guess transplant shock, or whatever new you're doing different this time.


No i didnt transplant. I just planted them they are babies.


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## Superbad421 (Apr 13, 2020)

Synch22 said:


> No i didnt transplant. I just planted them they are babies.


Just give it a few days I'm sure you will notice a difference soon doesn't help if your always looking at them tho just check on them twice a day at lights on and off.


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## TonyGuyZ (Apr 25, 2020)

organic weed much smoother smoke imho


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## Midiver (May 2, 2020)

When I work at a nursery the owner said not to put that stuff in de pot because it made dem all root bound.


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## rkmcdon (May 7, 2020)

I'm using Promix MP with mycorrhizae. I'm wondering if there is any need to add additional myco's later in the grow. Any thoughts?


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## mordynyc (May 7, 2020)

rkmcdon said:


> I'm using Promix MP with mycorrhizae. I'm wondering if there is any need to add additional myco's later in the grow. Any thoughts?


Theyre supposed to touch the roots and reproduce so no


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## jacobgrows (May 26, 2020)

Mycorrhizal fungi is way overlooked in the cannabis industry. I don't really hear to many people talking about it. With both fungi and probiotic soils I've had other plants last years. Interested in seeing how long a cannabis plant will live with some treated soil.


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## mordynyc (May 26, 2020)

jacobgrows said:


> Mycorrhizal fungi is way overlooked in the cannabis industry. I don't really hear to many people talking about it. With both fungi and probiotic soils I've had other plants last years. Interested in seeing how long a cannabis plant will live with some treated soil.


I see it mentioned all the time.
All soils are probiotic and have fungi.
They can last a few years if u reveg it like a perennial in some climates. 
Longer as mother plants.


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## waterproof808 (May 26, 2020)

jacobgrows said:


> Mycorrhizal fungi is way overlooked in the cannabis industry. I don't really hear to many people talking about it. With both fungi and probiotic soils I've had other plants last years. Interested in seeing how long a cannabis plant will live with some treated soil.


Thats because the cannabis industry likes to repackage common agricultural products with a cartoon on the label and sell it to you at a HUGE markup. Mycorrhizal products are very commonly used for cannabis but grow shops rather you pay 5x as much for something with a name brand recognition instead of telling you that all mycorrhizae is produced by like 2 companies in the USA and you could be getting it for $15-20/lb when it doesn't come with a pretty graphic.


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## mordynyc (May 26, 2020)

waterproof808 said:


> Thats because the cannabis industry likes to repackage common agricultural products with a cartoon on the label and sell it to you at a HUGE markup. Mycorrhizal products are very commonly used for cannabis but grow shops rather you pay 5x as much for something with a name brand recognition instead of telling you that all mycorrhizae is produced by like 2 companies in the USA and you could be getting it for $15-20/lb when it doesn't come with a pretty graphic.


Exactly. 
Put the word hydro on it and that's another 2x markup.


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## speedwell68 (Jun 7, 2020)

waterproof808 said:


> Thats because the cannabis industry likes to repackage common agricultural products with a cartoon on the label and sell it to you at a HUGE markup. Mycorrhizal products are very commonly used for cannabis but grow shops rather you pay 5x as much for something with a name brand recognition instead of telling you that all mycorrhizae is produced by like 2 companies in the USA and you could be getting it for $15-20/lb when it doesn't come with a pretty graphic.


Spot on. In the UK Great White mycorrhizae is £40 for 114g, it is aimed at weed growers, comes in a fancy blue pot with a picture of Jaws on the front. The very same stuff sold by Amazon for general gardening is £15 for a kilo.

I am a complete convert to mycorrhizae. The started using it on a UK gardening show and raving about the benefits. Last year we tried it in the wife's vegetable garden and the difference was amazing


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## Polyuro (Jun 7, 2020)

mordynyc said:


> I see it mentioned all the time.
> All soils are probiotic and have fungi.
> They can last a few years if u reveg it like a perennial in some climates.
> Longer as mother plants.


Can you tell us a a reference to where you found research saying all soils have probiotics? I dont think you can because that is not true from what I can find but please share!


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## speedwell68 (Jun 7, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> Can you tell us a a reference to where you found research saying all soils have probiotics? I dont think you can because that is not true from what I can find but please share!


It is something that I have always believed to be so. The thing is the word soil is incorrectly used to begin with. I grow in a medium called Jack's Magic, it is a peat moss based compost mix with added calcified seaweed. But cannabis people call it soil. Soil is what you dig in the garden. If you went to a proper horticultural place they'd laugh at you for calling it soil. If a soil mix contains compost or peat then it will most certainly contain pro biotics. For example this is popular with cannabis growers...

https://foxfarm.com/product/ocean-forest-potting-soil

That is just peat and compost with added fish, blood and bone. Peat is not soil. You could buy some standard garden peat and add fish, blood and bone powder and a touch of vermiculite and you will be done at a fraction of the price. But if it has peat in it then it will contain probiotic organisms.


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## waterproof808 (Jun 7, 2020)

Microbes cover every square millimeter of every surface, if they are all "probiotic" is debatable since that term is usually reserved for bacteria that benefits the human digestive system.


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## speedwell68 (Jun 8, 2020)

waterproof808 said:


> Microbes cover every square millimeter of every surface, if they are all "probiotic" is debatable since that term is usually reserved for bacteria that benefits the human digestive system.


You are 100% correct. Pro-biotic is a poor use of language in this instance. A better term, in this case, would be beneficial micro-organisms.


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## mordynyc (Jun 8, 2020)

Anyone try DYNOMYCO?


----------



## still_smoked (Oct 30, 2020)

Is great white over rated?


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## speedwell68 (Nov 1, 2020)

still_smoked said:


> Is great white over rated?


I am sure it is a decent product, However it is totally overpriced.


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## smokin away (Nov 11, 2020)

speedwell68 said:


> I am sure it is a decent product, However it is totally overpriced.


I find Big Foot very affordable. Works good in soil. It's been around for a number of years and comes from Oregon.








Big Foot Myco | The American Root Company LLC | United States


The American Root Company is proud to offer premium mycorrhizae. Big Foot Mycorrhizae increases nutrient and water up-take. Also, combines biochar, kelp, worm castings and micronutrients to increase colonization and root growth. shop at bigfootmyco.com




www.theamericanrootcompany.com




I use the drench method with the concentrate.


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## insomnia65 (Nov 21, 2020)

speedwell68 said:


> Spot on. In the UK Great White mycorrhizae is £40 for 114g, it is aimed at weed growers, comes in a fancy blue pot with a picture of Jaws on the front. The very same stuff sold by Amazon for general gardening is £15 for a kilo.
> 
> I am a complete convert to mycorrhizae. The started using it on a UK gardening show and raving about the benefits. Last year we tried it in the wife's vegetable garden and the difference was amazing


Have you a link for that Mycorrhizae I can't find it for that price.


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## Leeski (Nov 21, 2020)

You can collect your own Mycorrhizae if there’s a half decent forest/wood near you easy to find this time of year scrape the top layer of dead leaves with you foot if that fails mykos is an option not over priced and works well imo


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## speedwell68 (Nov 21, 2020)

insomnia65 said:


> Have you a link for that Mycorrhizae I can't find it for that price.


I got it from Amazon..






Dragonfli Root Grow Mychorrhizal Fungi Granules 1kg: Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors


Great prices on your favourite Gardening brands, and free delivery on eligible orders.



www.amazon.co.uk


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## insomnia65 (Nov 21, 2020)

Leeski said:


> You can collect your own Mycorrhizae if there’s a half decent forest/wood near you easy to find this time of year scrape the top layer of dead leaves with you foot if that fails mykos is an option not over priced and works well imo


Think I will save myself some money and walk the park. Thanks.


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## Leeski (Nov 21, 2020)

Great time of year for gathering stuff I’m lucky live close to the sea so get bin bags full of seaweed dead leaves for compost and wormer loads of Biology from local forest Why spend cash on crap when with a little effort and a Little knowledge and believe me I mean a little knowledge in my case
You can get the real deal


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## natureboygrower (Nov 21, 2020)

Leeski said:


> You can collect your own Mycorrhizae if there’s a half decent forest/wood near you easy to find this time of year scrape the top layer of dead leaves with you foot if that fails mykos is an option not over priced and works well imo


I was in the woods this morning collecting stuff to overwinter in my compost pile


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## Leeski (Nov 21, 2020)

There’s a little cove bit of a hike but can even find oyster shells


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## natureboygrower (Nov 21, 2020)

Leeski said:


> Great time of year for gathering stuff I’m lucky live close to the sea so get bin bags full of seaweed dead leaves for compost and wormer loads of Biology from local forest Why spend cash on crap when with a little effort and a Little knowledge and believe me I mean a little knowledge in my case
> You can get the real deal


I put over a ton of lobster shells in our pile summer/fall 2019. I feel the same as you and am fortunate to live by the ocean as well. Man, Ive been watching the shore for a few months and I cannot source any seaweed like last fall. It's all super dirty. I've been wanting to get some forest inputs into the pile, might as well now that i cant source anything from the shoreline. 

Composting is a little work but it becomes an act of love that I'm constantly trying to improve and learn more about. There are so many different beneficial inputs you can source, just like the leaf mold you brought up. I did that just last weekend. Pound for pound leaves = manure. Pretty cool.


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## Leeski (Nov 21, 2020)

Brother from another mother lol yer I love it becomeS an obsession even chucked my local fish monger some herb for fish to make emulsion Filled all my water butt pipes with moss as kinda filter next year I should not have to buy anything with have 200ltrs comfrey tea,seaweed tea and fish emulsion


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## insomnia65 (Nov 21, 2020)

Foraging from the Sea to the Garden! - Bali Advertiser







www.baliadvertiser.biz


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## speedwell68 (Nov 21, 2020)

I'd love to be able to compost, I just don't have the time.


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## Gardenator (Nov 26, 2020)

speedwell68 said:


> I'd love to be able to compost, I just don't have the time.


You have time to throw away organic material in a trash can, then you have time to toss it in a different can for sure... tossing this compost is as easy as taking that can and dumping it into a larger bin and boom just turned your compost... throw some bokashi layers inbetween and boom compost does all its own work. You have plenty of time my friend, we all do...


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## speedwell68 (Nov 26, 2020)

Gardenator said:


> You have time to throw away organic material in a trash can, then you have time to toss it in a different can for sure... tossing this compost is as easy as taking that can and dumping it into a larger bin and boom just turned your compost... throw some bokashi layers inbetween and boom compost does all its own work. You have plenty of time my friend, we all do...


Fair point. I will give it some consideration.


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## Leeski (Dec 3, 2020)

Some new bennies from a tiny little piece of wood I found on forest floor 1wk ago won’t be using this soil till spring next year as you can see have added some cover crop


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## Growitpondifarm (Dec 3, 2020)

Wouldn’t spend a dollar more on these myko products. The fresh stuff in the forest is much better and I’m still not totally convinced that adding mycos to potting soil in a horticulture setting is super effective. Tad hussey has a great interview with a biologist that does work with gold leaf farms. He ran some interesting tests regarding myco additives and saw zero benefit in regards to yield or cannabinoid percentages. For how expensive some of these products are to see no discernible benefit Is disappointing. One positive is I no longer feel like I’m missing out as o hadn’t been adding any myco products to my soil for 3 years.


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## bodhipop (Mar 12, 2021)

Anyone know the shelf life of Mychorrizae?
I have some Root Naturally. It's four different species. I have granular as well as water soluble. They recommend to double dosage if older than 2 years but mine is around 5-6 years old. Kept in mild temps around 70 F.


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## Northwood (Mar 12, 2021)

bodhipop said:


> Anyone know the shelf life of Mychorrizae?
> I have some Root Naturally. It's four different species. I have granular as well as water soluble. They recommend to double dosage if older than 2 years but mine is around 5-6 years old. Kept in mild temps around 70 F.


I would add native fertile soil as an inoculant instead. If you're worried about pathogens or pests you can run it through a a worm bin first.


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## bodhipop (Mar 12, 2021)

Northwood said:


> I would add native fertile soil as an inoculant instead. If you're worried about pathogens or pests you can run it through a a worm bin first.


Cool, thanks for your response. I would prefer a method like that as well. Should I dig near big tree roots? Of course away from black walnut trees..


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## Northwood (Mar 12, 2021)

bodhipop said:


> Cool, thanks for your response. I would prefer a method like that as well. Should I dig near big tree roots? Of course away from black walnut trees..


No, I would dig from the soil at the rhizosphere of herbaceous plants, like the side of an old ditch along a road where the weeds are growing exceedingly thick. There you will find "endomycorrhizal" fungi which forms associations with plants like cannabis. In the forest, you will find mostly "ectomycorrhizal" fungi which form associations with trees and make delicious mushrooms that I love to eat.


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## Rico2016 (May 5, 2021)

smokin away said:


> I find Big Foot very affordable. Works good in soil. It's been around for a number of years and comes from Oregon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same here I like to use up the Xtreme garden MYKOS or the Big Foot but since Extreme Gard has the higher spore numbers I use it more. Good choices either way.


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## Hollatchaboy (May 6, 2021)

Alternative to Conventional Fertilizers: Fungi Could Manipulate Bacteria to Enrich Soil With Nutrients


Researchers have discovered a group of soil bacteria that could yield alternatives to conventional fertilizers for enriching soil and improving crop yields. A team of researchers from the Boyce Thompson Institute (BTI) has discovered a distinct group of bacteria that may help fungi and plants acq



scitechdaily.com






I thought some might be interested in this, if not already known.


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## Leeski (May 6, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Alternative to Conventional Fertilizers: Fungi Could Manipulate Bacteria to Enrich Soil With Nutrients
> 
> 
> Researchers have discovered a group of soil bacteria that could yield alternatives to conventional fertilizers for enriching soil and improving crop yields. A team of researchers from the Boyce Thompson Institute (BTI) has discovered a distinct group of bacteria that may help fungi and plants acq
> ...


Very interesting mate


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 6, 2021)

Leeski said:


> Very interesting mate


I thought so.


----------



## Obepawn (Jul 31, 2021)

Hello everyone, if you have Netflix, there’s a new Documentary called Fantastic Fungi. For those of who are not well versed of fungi and it’s role in nature please give it a watch. Fantastic documentary.


----------



## Flowtrail55 (Aug 1, 2021)

Obepawn said:


> Hello everyone, if you have Netflix, there’s a new Documentary called Fantastic Fungi. For those of who are not well versed of fungi and it’s role in nature please give it a watch. Fantastic documentary.


Just started watching with this. 
And its already super cool. 

Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## JakeBakeADK (Aug 1, 2021)

Couple years old but still a good watch for sure.


----------



## Rico2016 (Aug 17, 2021)

Obepawn said:


> Hello everyone, if you have Netflix, there’s a new Documentary called Fantastic Fungi. For those of who are not well versed of fungi and it’s role in nature please give it a watch. Fantastic documentary.


thank you I will give this advice a look!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

marleyg2 said:


> g


?


----------



## Alcoholock (Oct 15, 2021)

Since you guys have helped me so much... Bought this for under 10$ at Agway ... Powder ..water soluable..I chuck some in the middle of my soil mix and a small amount in with seed...it's 3-3-3 so ... Pretty nice for a top dress and fork)water in... Cheers


----------



## Mad878 (Oct 16, 2021)

thelastpirate said:


> Thanx for bumping this thread. There must be something wrong with the search function, 'cuz when I use it, I get alot of worthless, unrelated shit. I have been interested in mycorrhizae for a couple of months now, but could find very little here on RIU.
> Has anyone ever tried BioTone starter Plus? I have already mixed the soil for this next grow, so it's probably a moot point, but I'm interested in any first hand knowledge opinions as to it's efficacy.
> My reason for going with the BioTone over the other product with mycorrhizae only was the fact that it contained the other trace minerals (purportedly organic) as well.
> I _FINALLY_ found a local source for bat guano and worm castings!!!! Joy!!! It's kinda funny when you start asking Q's about the organic ferts like guano, worm castings, kelp etc. I'm pretty sure that they know whats up. Not a whole lot of people (veggie growers) who go to this nursery know much about mycorrhizae or guano. Careful how much you let slip. I got a _"knowing look"_ from the sales clerk. But it's all good, I'm pretty sure she smokes too!


Use bloodmeal , guano, mycorrhizae, and molasses then into bloom switch from bloodmeal to bonemeal


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 16, 2021)

Mad878 said:


> Use bloodmeal , guano, mycorrhizae, and molasses then into bloom switch from bloodmeal to bonemeal


Which type of guano?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Which type of guano?


The good kind. Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 16, 2021)

Leeski said:


> It’s all shit


Which one? The guano?


----------



## elfo777 (Oct 16, 2021)

Just wondering, if I reuse soil inoculated with mycorrhizae, is it still there? or do I need to reapply again?


----------



## Lenin1917 (Oct 16, 2021)

Doesn’t it depend on the type of mychorrhizae?ectomychorrhizae require a network of plants to function so indoors it seems they’d be fairly useless (unless you have a bed with a bunch of plants indoors) but like they’d have a great advantage outdoor inground plants. Endomychorrhizae on the other hand functions exclusively at the root zone.


----------



## Mad878 (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Which type of guano?


To begin high nitrogen guano. Then switch to high pk in bloom.


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 16, 2021)

Mad878 said:


> To begin high nitrogen guano. Then switch to high pk in bloom.


That kinda answered my question. I was talking about what type specifically though. I use SunLeaves and Down to Earth stuff. I meant Mexican, Indonesian, Madagascan, ect.

But no guano I've heard of has high K levels. It's mostly either N or P.


----------



## Mad878 (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> That kinda answered my question. I was talking about what type specifically though. I use SunLeaves and Down to Earth stuff. I meant Mexican, Indonesian, Madagascan, ect.
> 
> But no guano I've heard of has high K levels. It's mostly either N or P.


I know sun leaves has 3 different kinds of guano. Mexican(high N) Jamaican and Indonesian. I believe Mother Earth has different guanos too.


----------



## Mad878 (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> That kinda answered my question. I was talking about what type specifically though. I use SunLeaves and Down to Earth stuff. I meant Mexican, Indonesian, Madagascan, ect.
> 
> But no guano I've heard of has high K levels. It's mostly either N or P.


I use budswel 0-4-0


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 16, 2021)

Mad878 said:


> I know sun leaves has 3 different kinds of guano. Mexican(high N) Jamaican and Indonesian. I believe Mother Earth has different guanos too.


They have more than 3. I have at least 3 of their guanos. This link has some, but I don't see the Mexican on here. I have Mexican too, and that's just N.









Guano - SUNLEAVES


Learn more about Sunleaves complete system of 100% natural nutrients and fertilizers designed to promote plant growth and maximize yield.




sunleaves.com


----------



## Mad878 (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> They have more than 3. I have at least 3 of their guanos. This link has some, but I don't see the Mexican on here. I have Mexican too, and that's just N.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here your high N. https://sunleaves.com/sunleaves-sumatran-1-25lb/


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 16, 2021)

Mad878 said:


> Here your high N. https://sunleaves.com/sunleaves-sumatran-1-25lb/


I just checked. I have Mexican, Indonesian, Peruvian, and Madagascan Sunleaves guano. I also have the Down to Earth bat guano stuff that's has the same NPK as the Sumatran bat.


----------



## Mad878 (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> I just checked. I have Mexican, Indonesian, Peruvian, and Madagascan Sunleaves guano. I also have the Down to Earth bat guano stuff that's has the same NPK as the Sumatran bat.


Sunleaves Sumatran Natural Fertilizer (8-3-1) promotes strong, healthy plants and abundant growth. This high-nitrogen plant food also contains enough phosphorus and potassium to provide a well-balanced diet during the vegetative cycle,


----------



## Mad878 (Oct 16, 2021)

Mad878 said:


> Sunleaves Sumatran Natural Fertilizer (8-3-1) promotes strong, healthy plants and abundant growth. This high-nitrogen plant food also contains enough phosphorus and potassium to provide a well-balanced diet during the vegetative cycle,


During vegetation


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Oct 16, 2021)

Mad878 said:


> Sunleaves Sumatran Natural Fertilizer (8-3-1) promotes strong, healthy plants and abundant growth. This high-nitrogen plant food also contains enough phosphorus and potassium to provide a well-balanced diet during the vegetative cycle,


That's a direct quote from their website, lol.









Sunleaves Sumatran 1.25lb - SUNLEAVES


Learn more about Sunleaves Sumatran 1.25lb 100% natural fertilizer that promotes strong, healthy plants and abundant growth.




sunleaves.com


----------



## Mad878 (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> That's a direct quote from their website, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly


----------



## Mad878 (Oct 16, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> That's a direct quote from their website, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


8-3-1 is the npk


----------



## bajasti (Oct 22, 2021)

Anyone ever use green Trichoderma from contaminated mushroom spawn grains? I'm curious how one would use that in their beds/pots. I know many people encounter this while cultivating mushys..

Baja


----------



## aridynomyco (Jan 25, 2022)

Hey @garrythegardener,

You are completely right about the role mycorrhizal inoculants perform on plants. 


The hyphal network increases the root surface area of the plant and enables the plant to absorb more nutrients thanks to the wider reach of the hyphae. The hyphae effectively increase the size of the roots by 10-100X! The fungi help the plants absorb phosphorus, nitrogen, iron, zinc, copper, and other microelements and can transport them to the plant. They break down unavailable phosphorus to the plant. 


Approximately 85% of the phosphorus fertilizer applied to the plant doesn’t get absorbed because it is chemically or physically unavailable. With inoculated plants, fungi break down the unavailable phosphorus and make it available to the plant, reducing runoff pollution and allowing the plant to now absorb 90% of the applied phosphorus. This is significant since the plant relies on phosphorous for bud production. So the more available phosphorus, the more your plants will yield.


DYNOMYCO™ is a cannabis-specific mycorrhizal inoculant. It was formulated specifically for cannabis cultivation, through years of bioassays combining numerous mycorrhizal strains and cannabis varieties. It contains two species of endomycorrhizal fungi, Glomus intraradices and Glomus mosseae, at a concentration of 900 propagules per gram .

Happy Grow!!!


----------



## aridynomyco (Jan 25, 2022)

Old post, New info...

Hey guys,

Just want to remind you that *DYNOMYCO* is the fastes growing Mycorrhizal Brand in the Us Market.

Highly concentrated - DYNOMYCO™ boasts a high concentration of 900 propagules/g (3x the leading brand), creating a hyphal network which extends and protects the plant root system and enables it to better absorb nutrients and water 

Cannabis-specific - Many mycorrhizal products contain fungal species and strains that have no affiliation with cannabis (e.g. ectomycorrhizal fungi and other endomycorrhizal strains with no proven symbiotic relationship). However, DYNOMYCO™ has been formulated specifically for cannabis cultivation, and contains strains that have been scientifically researched and proven to have a mutualistic relationship with cannabis plants. 

Check out our website - www.dynomyco.com


Happy Grow!!!


----------



## Weedvin (Mar 11, 2022)

Ohsogreen said:


> Sometimes, things are so well written, it would be a dis-service to paraphrase them. I ran across this page on Mycorrhizal Fungi and thought it was great info. So, here is a link to it:
> .
> Mycorrhiza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> .
> ...


When you apply the fungi (s), it has to have a root system to do that incredible functions. I use china white millet in a five gal bag full of my mix. It grows rapidly after. 1-2 months when I cut the the millet at soil level, wait 5-7 days plant your stuff with the fungi already cultivated. It takes 3- months to get a culture living and multiplying. I'm just adding.


----------



## toomp (Mar 12, 2022)

speedwell68 said:


> I grow in a medium called Jack's Magic, it is a peat moss based compost mix with added calcified seaweed. But cannabis people call it soil. Soil is what you dig in the garden. *If you went to a proper horticultural place they'd laugh at you for calling it soil.*


just stop it.


----------



## DrBuzzFarmer (Mar 28, 2022)

This thread gave me a headache.
I have some ideas for folks:
Start a compost pile.
Get some rock dust.
Raise worms.
Stop buying products.
You cannot buy your way, or engineer your way, to Humic soil conditions.
At some point you must realize that processes are taking place that science cannot yet replicate or control.
You can go head to head with Mother Nature, and pay the costs, constantly working to maintain a healthy soil,
or you can work WITH Mother Nature, and let her do most of the work.
Your LOCAL microlife will literally blow in with the wind to populate your compost pile. They will crawl from a nearby hole in the ground to move in to your constant buffet. Mycorrhizal fungi are EVERYWHERE on the planet.
The amendments this thread is full of destroy the most fundamental benefit of Mycorrhizae. (surprise educational keyword: Glomalin)
Teas are a last ditch effort to save a crop when the health of the soil breaks down.
Used when not needed, they are like a massive hurricane to the microlife.
Fresh, finished compost is Mother Nature's way of supplying nutrition to the soil.
Any amending, or fortification, should take place in the compost pile, NOT the growing medium.
This thread should be about the amending and fortification of a compost pile.
It should mention final results of efforts taken place WELL before the growing season.
Mycorrhizal fungi work best when the soil is allowed to develop before planting, because spores must germinate, hyphae must spread, and Glomalin must be excreted from Hyphae to create the environment for Humic soil, before the life can move in and populate the soil in a healthy manner.
I'm going to get an aspirin and take a nap.
(No heat and only a little sarcasm intended  )
I will explain soil science in a story format, if it helps...


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Mar 28, 2022)

DrBuzzFarmer said:


> This thread gave me a headache.
> I have some ideas for folks:
> Start a compost pile.
> Get some rock dust.
> ...


Try breaking stuff up a little to make it easier to read.


----------



## DrBuzzFarmer (Mar 28, 2022)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Try breaking stuff up a little to make it easier to read.


It was of the nature of a slightly sarcastic soliloquy. 
Did it give you a headache?


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Mar 29, 2022)

DrBuzzFarmer said:


> It was of the nature of a slightly sarcastic soliloquy.
> Did it give you a headache?


No, but when I see a wall of text I just ignore it.


----------



## DrBuzzFarmer (Mar 29, 2022)

PadawanWarrior said:


> No, but when I see a wall of text I just ignore it.


Ahh, a scholar. 
I checked, but there's no crayon font for you.


----------



## toomp (Mar 30, 2022)

PadawanWarrior said:


> No, but when I see a wall of text I just ignore it.


He said use rock dust. 
I seen rock dust give lower yield than control on some crops
in the same study some crops gave higher yields then control
1 that got higher yields is tomatoes 
cannabis wasnt 1 of the crops but being it worked well with tomatoes do you think it works to give cannabis higher yields?


----------



## DrBuzzFarmer (Mar 30, 2022)

Rock dust is a necessary ingredient of a soil mixture that has a full spectrum of microlife, but it takes years for a sufficient quantity of rock eaters to form a colony in the soil.
Rock eaters were the first bacteria in the soil, and form the foundation of healthy soil.
Without the science, a 'test' is a way to arrive at a preconceived notion, because it's not a test at all, it's a play to make the person feel smart.
The problem is: uneducated people believe it's science, when it's a play.
edit: to be clear, it's not a purposeful deception. Rock dust does not act in the way of fertilizers, so their trials were all based incorrectly.
Positive AND negative results in such studies are worthless.


----------



## TankHankerous (Apr 12, 2022)

How can I keep my mycorrhiza colony alive if I'm supposed to give the plants a proper wet/dry cycle. I hear if the soil dries out the fungus will die but I also want to give the soil a chance to use up the moisture. 

I'm stuck between a rock dust and a hard place!


----------



## SaHt420 (Apr 14, 2022)

the white fungi growing in my mulch pile outside from year is that beneficial to my soil and i was wondering if i could farm the fungi


----------



## GenericEnigma (Apr 14, 2022)

TankHankerous said:


> How can I keep my mycorrhiza colony alive if I'm supposed to give the plants a proper wet/dry cycle. I hear if the soil dries out the fungus will die but I also want to give the soil a chance to use up the moisture.
> 
> I'm stuck between a rock dust and a hard place!


If you're running a living soil, you don't want it to get totally dry.


----------



## GenericEnigma (Apr 14, 2022)

SaHt420 said:


> the white fungi growing in my mulch pile outside from year is that beneficial to my soil and i was wondering if i could farm the fungi


White fungi in organics is typically good for plants. Those spores are pretty much everywhere, so it's not necessary to culture it.

You could jumpstart another pile of mulch with some fungus-plenty material from another mulch pile, I suppose, but I don't know how much of a benefit it would provide to do so.

My advice would be to create the best conditions for that fungus to flourish and approach it from that perspective.

Some folks get into AACT and LABS, but that's not my strong suit.


----------



## TankHankerous (Apr 14, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> If you're running a living soil, you don't want it to get totally dry.


Thanks, I'm new to growing. I noticed that a lot of time the top inch of my soil will get pretty dry. Would using a spray bottle inbetween waterings to keep the topsoil moist be a wise move or should I just water more frequently if in a living soil.

Thanks again!


----------



## GenericEnigma (Apr 14, 2022)

TankHankerous said:


> Thanks, I'm new to growing. I noticed that a lot of time the top inch of my soil will get pretty dry. Would using a spray bottle inbetween waterings to keep the topsoil moist be a wise move or should I just water more frequently if in a living soil.
> 
> Thanks again!


Well, I'd want to know more about your setup before saying anything specific.

What size pots are you using, and what kind of soil is in them?


----------



## SaHt420 (Apr 14, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> White fungi in organics is typically good for plants. Those spores are pretty much everywhere, so it's not necessary to culture it.
> 
> You could jumpstart another pile of mulch with some fungus-plenty material from another mulch pile, I suppose, but I don't know how much of a benefit it would provide to do so.
> 
> ...


yea for sure thats what i wanted to do was cultivate it to fat clumps or fungi then use it to mix into reused soil instead of buying myco just so ik for a fact soil will provide healthy symbiotic relationship between roots and soil


----------



## DrBuzzFarmer (Apr 22, 2022)

TankHankerous said:


> How can I keep my mycorrhiza colony alive if I'm supposed to give the plants a proper wet/dry cycle. I hear if the soil dries out the fungus will die but I also want to give the soil a chance to use up the moisture.
> 
> I'm stuck between a rock dust and a hard place!


Moist, not wet.
The Mycorrhizae are excreting Glomalin, which soaks the carbon of the soil, making it a 'magical' substance. The Glomalin hardens creating a sort of concrete. It also gives the carbon the property of being able to store it's own weight in water.
You have a small reprieve built into the system.
Moist, not wet.
Wet conditions only allow for anaerobic bacteria to thrive, and bad smells and death for the happy critters in your pots will result.
Moist, not wet, and the aerobic bacteria and microlife will eat sammichs beside the stalk of your plants in quiet satisfaction.


----------



## TankHankerous (Jun 7, 2022)

DrBuzzFarmer said:


> Moist, not wet.
> The Mycorrhizae are excreting Glomalin, which soaks the carbon of the soil, making it a 'magical' substance. The Glomalin hardens creating a sort of concrete. It also gives the carbon the property of being able to store it's own weight in water.
> You have a small reprieve built into the system.
> Moist, not wet.
> ...


Funny you mention Glomalin, I actually stepped in some on the way home!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jun 7, 2022)

TankHankerous said:


> Thanks, I'm new to growing. I noticed that a lot of time the top inch of my soil will get pretty dry. Would using a spray bottle inbetween waterings to keep the topsoil moist be a wise move or should I just water more frequently if in a living soil.
> 
> Thanks again!


You should have a good layer of mulch, to help keep the top of your soil moist.


----------



## TankHankerous (Jun 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You should have a good layer of mulch, to help keep the top of your soil moist.


Thanks, I live in a city so not a lot of straw around by me I can pick up off the ground and collect. I've heard about newspapers and cardboard could be good for mulch but I was wondering if the ink from the newspaper leak anything bad into the soil....? Also, are you supposed to take all the mulch out before you water and then put it back in afterwards?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jun 7, 2022)

TankHankerous said:


> Thanks, I live in a city so not a lot of straw around by me I can pick up off the ground and collect. I've heard about newspapers and cardboard could be good for mulch but I was wondering if the ink from the newspaper leak anything bad into the soil....? Also, are you supposed to take all the mulch out before you water and then put it back in afterwards?


Ok I get ya. I get malted barley straw from build a soil. It's not real expensive, and it works great.

The newspaper ink is soy based I believe, so it shouldn't hurt anything, but I still think the barley straw is worth the investment. You can water over it. No need to pull it out and put it back.


----------



## PadawanWarrior (Jun 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok I get ya. I get malted barley straw from build a soil. It's not real expensive, and it works great.
> 
> The newspaper ink is soy based I believe, so it shouldn't hurt anything, but I still think the barley straw is worth the investment. You can water over it. No need to pull it out and put it back.


You move it to top dress though right?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jun 7, 2022)

PadawanWarrior said:


> You move it to top dress though right?


It depends. If I'm using ewc yes, but I'll dump the craft blend on sometimes and let it trickle down. Only the moms get straw, and they don't grow very fast, cuz i keep the light dimmed, so they don't eat a lot. Plus I do a lot of compost teas. 

I flower in the earthbox, so no need for mulch for that.


----------



## Rico2016 (Jun 30, 2022)

bajasti said:


> Anyone ever use green Trichoderma from contaminated mushroom spawn grains? I'm curious how one would use that in their beds/pots. I know many people encounter this while cultivating mushys..
> 
> Baja


Ive been hearing tricho with mycorrhizae doesnt always mesh so good together has others had good or bad results with combination of them fighting each other or living peaceully?


----------



## Drakkainen (Oct 7, 2022)

After adding AACT to my plants 


Last photo - what is this?


----------



## radicaldank42 (Oct 8, 2022)

Drakkainen said:


> After adding AACT to my plants
> 
> View attachment 5209133View attachment 5209134View attachment 5209135View attachment 5209136View attachment 5209137View attachment 5209138View attachment 5209139
> Last photo - what is this?


algae. use h202 as a drench and it will get ride of it.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 8, 2022)

You don't need to get rid of algae in living soil. Hydro is a different story.


----------



## Drakkainen (Oct 8, 2022)

I don't think adding h2o2 is a good idea :/
It kill all microbes and fungi...
In my tea was consortium of Glomus - maybe from that is that algea


----------



## radicaldank42 (Oct 8, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You don't need to get rid of algae in living soil. Hydro is a different story.


actually algae in the soil is just as bad as algae in the hydro it does the same thing. and adding 52o2 yes cleanses the mcrobes but if youre using compst tease and bacteriums anyways you dont have to worry about that at all. caues youre replenishing them anyways and if youre not using any molasses in youre water mix youre microbes arent being fed and probably arent eve there. especially indoors. gotta be feeding something sugarry,


----------



## Drakkainen (Oct 8, 2022)

I'm using molasses 
My microbes get food every 48h


----------



## radicaldank42 (Oct 8, 2022)

Drakkainen said:


> I'm using molasses
> My microbes get food every 48h
> 
> View attachment 5209694


you can also uses dried molasses and mix it into the soil. make for a better area for them to hang onto and graze. same with hay. mix some hay into the soil and it will help feed them as well. but anyways cleanses the soild of all bacteriums and fungi is a good way make sure youre diversity is equal in the microbe life.


----------



## Drakkainen (Oct 8, 2022)

Still don't know how I can get rid of algae, while it is resident in my tea :/
When I clean everything in my soil and add AAcT algae will shows again


----------



## Drakkainen (Oct 8, 2022)

I'm in weeks 4-5 of flowering.
Should I clean now? I think not, but what do you think?


----------



## radicaldank42 (Oct 8, 2022)

you can it literally does nothing bad besides release micro oxygen bubbles into the soil and thats it. and roots love oxygen. plus clean the roots and the soil then you just put em back thru the teas. now as for the algae in the tea. sterilize everything are you using air stones in youre tea at all? how long do you brew youre tea for?


----------



## radicaldank42 (Oct 8, 2022)

Drakkainen said:


> Still don't know how I can get rid of algae, while it is resident in my tea :/
> When I clean everything in my soil and add AAcT algae will shows again


are you saying those bubbles are the algae? cause thats normal, as to how to get rid of the bubble throw in some kelp. or throw in some yucca the yucca is a water surfactant tha makes water wetter and so it will preven the bubbles from forming.


----------



## Drakkainen (Oct 8, 2022)

radicaldank42 said:


> you can it literally does nothing bad besides release micro oxygen bubbles into the soil and thats it. and roots love oxygen. plus clean the roots and the soil then you just put em back thru the teas. now as for the algae in the tea. sterilize everything are you using air stones in youre tea at all? how long do you brew youre tea for?


Good point.

But what if the algae show again after I brew new tea, I don't know where from that alga is.
Everything is clean, the only thing that's coming to my head is worm casting...

I brew my teas sometimes 2-4 days, sometimes about a week.
Feeding microbes every 48h with molasses and sometimes fish hydrolysate
I'm ordering a microscope next week, so will watch them out

Ahh NO of course the foam are good  not necessary shown in every tea.

We talking about green algae on top of.my pots


----------



## radicaldank42 (Oct 8, 2022)

fromm what i have read it could be wrong now but the bubbles are bad caseu it doesnt allow the water to fully oxydize case the air stones isnt what puts the air intho the water its the rippling of the surface of the water that does that. and if the surface is blocked by bubbles and isnt getting enough oxygen could mean that only bad stuff will brew. and if its reoccuring something isnt cleaned. and is somehow gettig contaminated by algae.


----------



## Drakkainen (Oct 8, 2022)

Brilliant! Next time will remove the foam partly.
Can I ask for checking my recipe?
Don't really know is every microbe can live together...

RO water 10-15 gal
2 bags with ewc hanging partly underwater
Trichoderma *
Mycorrhizae *
Bacillus consortium
Glomus consortium
Root excelurator *


From what I read in this topic; Trichoderma and mycorrhizae sometimes fighting each other - is this true ?
And root excelurator are the anaerobic bacterias?? It can be used ?


----------



## radicaldank42 (Oct 8, 2022)

Drakkainen said:


> Brilliant! Next time will remove the foam partly.
> Can I ask for checking my recipe?
> Don't really know is every microbe can live together...
> 
> ...


trichoderma i try to stay away from adding due to the fact it can also eat all the other fungis and bacteriums now the mycho i dont add cause it only works whenit is physically touching the roots so i use a granular mykos. in fact i dont add any bacterium specifically to my teas. for exampl i use 1cup of ewc in a panty hose with cup of outdoor forest soil(for the diversity of bacteria and fungi) then the yucca and one cup of molasses. splash in a few doses of liquid seaweed as well

so im saying i dont add any fungi or bacteriums at all. i just let it do its own thing


----------



## Drakkainen (Oct 8, 2022)

Interesting.
Will try that - I'm living close to the forest 

But the “pantyhose” part - I've read that the pantyhose got too small holes, and air from the pump, doesn't penetrate bag with ewc good
I bought some curtains, with some differently sized “holes” so air can easily goes through
I'm hanging bags above the main source of airbubbles in my brewer


----------



## radicaldank42 (Oct 8, 2022)

Drakkainen said:


> Interesting.
> Will try that - I'm living close to the forest
> 
> But the “pantyhose” part - I've read that the pantyhose got too small holes, and air from the pump, doesn't penetrate bag with ewc good
> ...


the panty hose stretch when you add the stuff inthe panty hose and you can tie it off but the sure weight plus when it become water logged. also some people use cheese cloth and panty hose is more breathable then cheese cloth.


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## Drakkainen (Oct 8, 2022)

I'm using this:


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## radicaldank42 (Oct 8, 2022)

tha would work perfectly just like the panty hose


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## Drakkainen (Oct 13, 2022)

Forgot to paste some roots after adding my tea


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## radicaldank42 (Oct 13, 2022)

looking good man definetly keep up the work. and with a h202 wash itll keep those bottom roots nice and white as well.


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## Drakkainen (Oct 19, 2022)

Lets brew some tea!


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## radicaldank42 (Oct 20, 2022)

Drakkainen said:


> Lets brew some tea!


are you using a air compressor? what does the filter look on those cause that could be where youre getting it i just tought of this.


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## Drakkainen (Oct 20, 2022)

Naah, everything is sterile - those pipes were a few minutes into boiling water. I'm sterilizing them every time I finish my tea

My air pump filter hmmm will spray him with 99% isopropyl alcohol  

Thanks for the advice  good point


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## radicaldank42 (Oct 20, 2022)

Drakkainen said:


> Naah, everything is sterile - those pipes were a few minutes into boiling water. I'm sterilizing them every time I finish my tea
> 
> My air pump filter hmmm will spray him with 99% isopropyl alcohol
> 
> Thanks for the advice  good point


it should be able to come off like a screw. or something like that cant remeber. at least the air pump i have it did.


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## Rubisco456 (Nov 18, 2022)

Drakkainen said:


> Good point.
> 
> But what if the algae show again after I brew new tea, I don't know where from that alga is.
> Everything is clean, the only thing that's coming to my head is worm casting...
> ...


I'm just going to give you a heads up, unless you have some gram stains looking at microbes under the microscope is super underwhelming. With out diagnostic medias you will not be able to ID who is living in your soil. Under a 40X objective they'll look just like little squiggles.


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## Rubisco456 (Nov 18, 2022)

radicaldank42 said:


> fromm what i have read it could be wrong now but the bubbles are bad caseu it doesnt allow the water to fully oxydize case the air stones isnt what puts the air intho the water its the rippling of the surface of the water that does that. and if the surface is blocked by bubbles and isnt getting enough oxygen could mean that only bad stuff will brew. and if its reoccuring something isnt cleaned. and is somehow gettig contaminated by algae.


IDK where you got that from but air stones are a fantastic way of getting air into water. 

Back in the day when I was doing mass algae production and microbial fermentation my team found that metal air stones (or diffusers) works superbly well, we were getting 120% more bio mass in our cultures with air stones alone. The really fine bubble dissolve into water rapidly and the aeration action also does double duty mixing the water.

You are 100% correct about the surface water mixing and foam. I've run into that recently with my own microbial fermenters, a lot of foam at the liquid air interface blocked air from entering my cultures and caused it to respire anaerobically.


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 18, 2022)

Rubisco456 said:


> IDK where you got that from but air stones are a fantastic way of getting air into water.
> 
> Back in the day when I was doing mass algae production and microbial fermentation my team found that metal air stones (or diffusers) works superbly well, we were getting 120% more bio mass in our cultures with air stones alone. The really fine bubble dissolve into water rapidly and the aeration action also does double duty mixing the water.
> 
> You are 100% correct about the surface water mixing and foam. I've run into that recently with my own microbial fermenters, a lot of foam at the liquid air interface blocked air from entering my cultures and caused it to respire anaerobically.


im talking about the bubbles that form on top of the water, and if you actually look it up air stones dont actually add oxygen to the water like how you think its the disturbance of the bubbles on the surface that oxidizes the water. and if you look up air stones do help but not as much as the agitation they get from it does.
which is why the vortex brewer does a really good job. and making one from a 5 gal bucket aint hard at allll. few sub pumps connected to the bottom of the bucket and tubes put back in at an angel.


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## Rico2016 (Dec 19, 2022)

Drakkainen said:


> I'm using this:
> 
> View attachment 5209766


Nice panties


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## radicaldank42 (Dec 20, 2022)

Rico2016 said:


> Nice panties


probably cleaner then yer own atm lolololol.


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## Rico2016 (Dec 28, 2022)

radicaldank42 said:


> probably cleaner then yer own atm lolololol.


Probably could be would you wanna check?


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## radicaldank42 (Dec 29, 2022)

Rico2016 said:


> Probably could be would you wanna check?


yea i got a phd in medicine and i can say that that looks bad. bleach and high concentrates of h202 will help get those stains out lolol


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 29, 2022)

radicaldank42 said:


> yea i got a phd in medicine and i can say that that looks bad. bleach and high concentrates of h202 will help get those stains out lolol


 That doesn't address the original problem though.


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## CaliRootz88 (Dec 29, 2022)

@Hollatchaboy 
PHD = Playa Hater Degree


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## I_dont_hike_I_saunter (Dec 31, 2022)

I haven't seen anyone mention Common Mychorizal Networks yet. Its where mychorizae of the same species link together. Its one of the reasons ill only inoculate with a single species of mychorizae in my outdoor plants so that, come flowering time, they're all communicating with eachother. 






Google Scholar







scholar.google.com





"Mycorrhizal fungi can interconnect individual plants to form common mycorrhizal networks (CMNs). Recent work has shown that these networks can transport signals produced by plants in response to herbivore and pathogen infestation to neighbouring plants before they are themselves attacked. The speed of transfer to uninfested plants is such that the mechanism is likely to have measurable benefits for plant protection. At present, the nature of the signals and the degree of plant and fungal control of their delivery are unknown. Interplant …"


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## sh0wtime (Jan 1, 2023)

I have a bag of mycorrhiza here, I was always scared to use it tho.
Not sure if you can use it together with mineral fertilizers.

After I saw the Fantastic Funghi documentary on netflix I thought I'd get some input.
Now that I've registered here maybe someone can gimme tips.
Much appreciated.


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## Rico2016 (Friday at 10:50 AM)

sh0wtime said:


> I have a bag of mycorrhiza here, I was always scared to use it tho.
> Not sure if you can use it together with mineral fertilizers.
> 
> After I saw the Fantastic Funghi documentary on netflix I thought I'd get some input.
> ...


why were you scared of a lil benny fungy?


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