# LED vs HPS



## Deadlytalon2014 (Aug 29, 2015)

Cost wise etc, Which do you suggest ? I was looking at getting this LED light, for the price it seems to fit really well into my budget. Any suggestions for something better for the same price ?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PH1MQV8/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00PH1MQV8&linkCode=as2&tag=christieheavy-20&linkId=T2ZV5MYHTRZ2J6BM


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## GIJonas (Aug 29, 2015)

Nice leds are quite good. However you could buy a cheap hps/mh setup for that price that will exceed its performance by a mile IMO.


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## Deadlytalon2014 (Aug 29, 2015)

GIJonas said:


> Nice leds are quite good. However you could buy a cheap hps/mh setup for that price that will exceed its performance by a mile IMO.


I can only veg 3 at a time / flower 3 at a time, With that being said, What would you suggest as the best route ? I am having a hard time finding a bulb / ballast / contactor / timer for a cheap enough comparable price, and I heard the LEDs use less power consumption for equal output


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## testiclees (Aug 29, 2015)

You should inquire about led in the thread i am new to led.

No one there will recommend the light that you link to.

A good led is not inexpensive. 

RIU is home to the best DIY led builders. With a little reading you could build a lamp that will easily outperform HPS, run much cooler and efficiently, produce better bud, and save electricity.


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## bf80255 (Aug 29, 2015)

Deadlytalon2014 said:


> Cost wise etc, Which do you suggest ? I was looking at getting this LED light, for the price it seems to fit really well into my budget. Any suggestions for something better for the same price ?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PH1MQV8/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00PH1MQV8&linkCode=as2&tag=christieheavy-20&linkId=T2ZV5MYHTRZ2J6BM


HPS will cost you about 150-200 for a cheap unit, bout 100 dollars a month to run 12/12 with a 1000W

an LED panel is gunna run upwards of 500 dollars and be about half the strength but will save a lot of energy and last a lot longer.... granted you dont ever feel the need to upgrade even though the LED game is changing every day.

for a newb id suggest HID


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## testiclees (Aug 29, 2015)

ya cant go wrong w hps but a ambitious newb might get into DIY cree or bridgelux which will surpass any HPS.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 29, 2015)

Deadlytalon2014 said:


> Cost wise etc, Which do you suggest ? I was looking at getting this LED light, for the price it seems to fit really well into my budget. Any suggestions for something better for the same price ?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PH1MQV8/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00PH1MQV8&linkCode=as2&tag=christieheavy-20&linkId=T2ZV5MYHTRZ2J6BM


you can get that very same 300 wat led thru marshydro for 68 dollars with free shipping, would I buy a mars light again, nope, but of all the "mistakes" I made along the way, the cheapy chineese blurple light was not the worst, it does function and you can grow bud, but if your not too late, I would do what testiclees recomends and DIY yourself a cob, a single cxa3070 cob can be build now for right at 70 dollars , and that single cob will rock star over that amazon light, and if you could build 2 of those cobs you would be at where my light is now, come take a look at my current grow and see what 2 cobs can do,, then look at testiclees or others and see what a bigger realy good led panel can do, my friend is building a new cxb 4 cobs light for less than 300 bucks, and its going to put out close to 40,000 lumens , thats pretty equal to a 400 watter HID


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## oilfield bud (Aug 30, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> you can get that very same 300 wat led thru marshydro for 68 dollars with free shipping, would I buy a mars light again, nope, but of all the "mistakes" I made along the way, the cheapy chineese blurple light was not the worst, it does function and you can grow bud, but if your not too late, I would do what testiclees recomends and DIY yourself a cob, a single cxa3070 cob can be build now for right at 70 dollars , and that single cob will rock star over that amazon light, and if you could build 2 of those cobs you would be at where my light is now, come take a look at my current grow and see what 2 cobs can do,, then look at testiclees or others and see what a bigger realy good led panel can do, my friend is building a new cxb 4 cobs light for less than 300 bucks, and its going to put out close to 40,000 lumens , thats pretty equal to a 400 watter HID



Do you think that 300w mars hydro will work for a 3x3 1/2 mother box?


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## Tim Fox (Aug 31, 2015)

Yes, but you need 18 inches of height over the top of the plant in veg, these Mars will bleach leaves if to close, Iwould use T 5 in veg


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## oilfield bud (Aug 31, 2015)

Thanks buddy


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## Jimdamick (Aug 31, 2015)

IMOP the 2 main problems you have to deal with when using LED is the light spread (footprint), and light intensity ( getting lumens to the middle of the plant). I would not recommend more than one plant under that one light, but by adding 1 more fixture, you could grow 3 (with training). Side lighting, say 3-26w flouresent lamps would be nice to get some light penetration into the middle of the plant
MH/HPS is a better all around light, but heat is their drawback, and that is a big one in small areas. So, what I would recommend is using a LED for a small grow in a small area where heat is not an issue, and HID for larger areas where you can deal with the heat.
Good luck


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## kdanna12 (Sep 1, 2015)

Deadlytalon2014 said:


> Cost wise etc, Which do you suggest ? I was looking at getting this LED light, for the price it seems to fit really well into my budget. Any suggestions for something better for the same price ?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PH1MQV8/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00PH1MQV8&linkCode=as2&tag=christieheavy-20&linkId=T2ZV5MYHTRZ2J6BM


Go with Marshydro much better LED, they may have a larger start up cost but my light runs at 90 degrees and that means no heat problems. I have my marshydro 300w on a couple clones and one plant in early veg and it's great for that. I will be using 2 700w reflector series in my 4x4 tent for the majority of the grow, but initial cost yes LED will cost you more, but with the combination of the life span heat reduction and lesser power usage it will be cheaper in the end. Plus I can't say enough about the penitration of the LED light.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 1, 2015)

I just took my Mars hydro out of my box, the Mars hydro ran to hot, go to led section and look at thread another Mars in the dumpster, none of those three or five watt LED can compete with a hid mh light, the only LED we recommend around here is cob lights, come over to led section and see for yourself


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## Tim Fox (Sep 1, 2015)

kdanna12 said:


> Go with Marshydro much better LED, they may have a larger start up cost but my light runs at 90 degrees and that means no heat problems. I have my marshydro 300w on a couple clones and one plant in early veg and it's great for that. I will be using 2 700w reflector series in my 4x4 tent for the majority of the grow, but initial cost yes LED will cost you more, but with the combination of the life span heat reduction and lesser power usage it will be cheaper in the end. Plus I can't say enough about the penitration of the LED light.


Says the guy with his first post


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## kdanna12 (Sep 1, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> Says the guy with his first post


Gotta start somewhere right


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## Tim Fox (Sep 1, 2015)

kdanna12 said:


> Gotta start somewhere right


Don't start with Chinese blurple lights that's for sure


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## kdanna12 (Sep 1, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> Don't start with Chinese blurple lights that's for sure


I've seen their ability and I'm not disappointed, it's just a different method than HID lights a requires a slightly different aproach not for all though.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 1, 2015)

kdanna12 said:


> I've seen their ability and I'm not disappointed, it's just a different method than HID lights a requires a slightly different aproach not for all though.


then sadly you have not seen what real cree cobs can do, its not a differant method, light required by the plant never changes, either you got what is needed or you dont, and those cheapy chinesse lights dont hold a candle to the new cobs, several manufactors of led ligiths like area 51 and optic are switching to the cobs,,, mars needs to get on board with it


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## Tim Fox (Sep 1, 2015)

if all you can afford is a cheapy led,, dont get it,, go with HID . Mh instead or DIY or area 51


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## D350 (Sep 6, 2015)

A little more about life expectancy of leds vs hps. 
Hps lamps can easly reach 4000-6000h with usable output.
Leds they claim 50.000h, which is bogus. They rate them at very low power. For a good light output you need to crank the leds wattage, which shortens their life expectancy a lot! You ate looking at 5000h max with no serious output degradation for a good quality led. They will work longer, but at severly reduced lumens...
I have looked into leds extensively, but due to cutlrrent costs they are not viable for larger rooms, as they cost too much.


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## hotrodharley (Sep 6, 2015)

For anyone on any kind of a budget and who is starting out talking about LED is like farting in the wind. For the capital outlay for a real LED array a beginning grower can outfit themselves quite nicely with an entire small grow operation. Especially if you buy equipment others have outgrown or no longer need or use. And if you have such experience as to grow expertly you usually don't have to ask such questions. This info intended for the less skilled.


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## BM9AGS (Sep 6, 2015)

I have 2 zelion HL LED lights on a mover for 4'x3' and 4 CXB 3070 enroute.
My experience is that my plants are doing much much better than they were on my 1000watt MH. All while I'm currently using an 88 watt draw with fans while in veg.
My .2 ct

As for Mars and the other companies.....notice how many used units are being sold on eBay....should tell you something!


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## hotrodharley (Sep 6, 2015)

I would make my own. I built a lot of electric guitars over the years and repaired many more. The solder gig is a natural for me. But I have seen more junk LED "grow lights" in the last few years so I warn to at least read up, check for reviews and like you say see how many used units are out there.

And I would be on here. Asking questions before I bought a new roll of solder. A whole lot of questions. I can solder and follow prints but that's something a monkey can do.


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## Deadlytalon2014 (Sep 10, 2015)

D350 said:


> A little more about life expectancy of leds vs hps.
> Hps lamps can easly reach 4000-6000h with usable output.
> Leds they claim 50.000h, which is bogus. They rate them at very low power. For a good light output you need to crank the leds wattage, which shortens their life expectancy a lot! You ate looking at 5000h max with no serious output degradation for a good quality led. They will work longer, but at severly reduced lumens...
> I have looked into leds extensively, but due to cutlrrent costs they are not viable for larger rooms, as they cost too much.


Well, then you must not have researched them very efficiently, Seeing how LEDs will save a large grower about $100-$200 a month on there electricity bill. The initial costs are higher yes, But the long term costs are a much different story, LEDs do last a considerable amount of time longer then HPS as well, I have used LEDs for many years, My computer is filled with LED custom lighting, and it is 3 years old without a single bulb going out yet, so do I believe LEDs can last for a lot longer ? Yes I do.

I know they are cheaper in the long run, and more expensive initially. But what I am trying to find out, is people who have actually used one or the other, and to see if they noticed a difference in yields. 

I have read countless posts online and grow journals, and have found 100s of people who swear they got larger more dense plants growing with the LEDs, I have also seen several comparison videos on Youtube, Of "Supposed" side by side comparisons between LEDs and HPS, and the LEDs again end up producing more yield. But I want advice from people who have personally had experience with them, and what they saw. 

Also can someone explain this video, that says HPS / HID is better ??? I cannot for the life of me find a video saying HPS had larger yields, literally every grow journal and video says LED grows bigger yields... Can anyone tell me more personally discovered information ?


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## smegpot (Sep 10, 2015)

I don't think the pre-fabbed LED's are the way to go, the markup is just ridiculous. I'm building a DIY LED to replace a 600'w hps. 

6 cree cxb3590 Cobs
2 HLG-120H-C350A controllers

And a few other odds and ends runs up to about $700, which is low end mark up for pre-fabbed LED's with shitty parts. 

I do think its a different grow style with LED, both have their pluses and minus's, but after years of running hot hps im ready to get on board the LED train. You can use more supplementation lighting if you need, thats the beauty with LED and small spaces, you can still have plenty of room to scale up with additional lighting.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 10, 2015)

Diy cobs are the thing I am into, it's the only type of led that makes any sense, all those cheeky Chinese blurple lights are awaste of time, if you can't get a new a51 cob or optic led , then build your cob light, I am currently using cxa3070 cobs, then again even the mentioned light builders can't come close to your cxb3590 build


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## BM9AGS (Sep 10, 2015)

smegpot said:


> I don't think the pre-fabbed LED's are the way to go, the markup is just ridiculous. I'm building a DIY LED to replace a 600'w hps.
> 
> 6 cree cxb3590 Cobs
> 2 HLG-120H-C350A controllers
> ...



You are generally correct! 

However you can get the GO Green 4xCree CXB3070 that costs about $450 and also the Osram Olson Zelion HL 2x2 that runs about $600

These are both amazing lights.


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## dandyrandy (Sep 10, 2015)

Or you can build an elcheapo Vero 29 V2 for $30 a cob or less and hit it at ~100w each. Drivers are not to bad of a price. The initial cost is much less than the cxb3590's. But efficiency is less. But still quite respectable. I'm using 8. I have around $600 in 800w.


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2015)

D350 said:


> A little more about life expectancy of leds vs hps.
> Hps lamps can easly reach 4000-6000h with usable output.
> Leds they claim 50.000h, which is bogus. They rate them at very low power. For a good light output you need to crank the leds wattage, which shortens their life expectancy a lot! You ate looking at 5000h max with no serious output degradation for a good quality led. They will work longer, but at severly reduced lumens...
> I have looked into leds extensively, but due to cutlrrent costs they are not viable for larger rooms, as they cost too much.


Hmmmm... I call 'BULLSHIT'.

In fact, the newer COB LED chips can be run very effectively and efficiently at fractions of their rated output, in which case the mean time between failure rate goes long. Really long...

Blurple panels are disco- buy them for parties with white shoes and big collars, lol

I'm personally putting these new COB LED chips to the scalability test. I'll be the judge of whether they're ready for prime time. The way I'm doing it is by matching watts with HID over the canopy.

My bet is right about ten k. Who's in, and who's just gonna talk?


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## smegpot (Sep 10, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> Diy cobs are the thing I am into, it's the only type of led that makes any sense, all those cheeky Chinese blurple lights are awaste of time, if you can't get a new a51 cob or optic led , then build your cob light, I am currently using cxa3070 cobs, then again even the mentioned light builders can't come close to your cxb3590 build


When the parts come in I will do a DIY thing on here, maybe not step by step but its pretty easy once you do your homework.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 10, 2015)

smegpot said:


> When the parts come in I will do a DIY thing on here, maybe not step by step but its pretty easy once you do your homework.


Agreed, not hard at all,


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Sep 11, 2015)

Deadlytalon2014 said:


> I can only veg 3 at a time / flower 3 at a time, With that being said, What would you suggest as the best route ? I am having a hard time finding a bulb / ballast / contactor / timer for a cheap enough comparable price, and* I heard the LEDs use less power consumption for equal output*


You heard wrong. Watts are watts. Less is not more. .


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## BM9AGS (Sep 11, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> You heard wrong. Watts are watts. Less is not more. .


Watts are watts?
So 1500 watt toaster nicrome coils should be fine for growing. Ignore the light efficiency it doesn't matter it's a byproduct anyway it's 1500 watts. Should grow a 6'x6' easily.

What school did you graduate from dirty?


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Sep 11, 2015)

BM9AGS said:


> Watts are watts?
> So 1500 watt toaster nicrome coils should be fine for growing. Ignore the light effiency it doesn't matter it's a byproduct anyway it's 1500 watts. Should grow a 6'x6' easily.
> 
> *What school did you graduate from* dirty?


You're the one comparing toasters to grow lights.


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## BM9AGS (Sep 11, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> You're the one comparing toasters to grow lights.


I'm hi lighting your logic of a watt is a watt by using a clearly ignorant statement that would be valid with your "a watt is a watt" logic.

You contended his statement of how a LED uses less power for equal output. His statement is correct. A toaster does produce light very similar to Tomas Edison's first light therefore why wouldn't that old technology hold true and be used on today's indoor lighting? 

Can you intelligently articulate your validation of how his statement is incorrect and a watt is a watt for lighting?


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## hyroot (Sep 11, 2015)

Watt is a watt. It's about efficiency and photons when comparing lighting. 

A 600w hps puts out 420 watts of heat and 180 watts of light 

Am equivalent 300w cob led puts out about 140 watts of heat and 160 watts of light. 

The more efficienct the light the more photon output it produces and the less heat it produces.


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## BM9AGS (Sep 11, 2015)

Correct however dirty was giving guidance as tho effiency does not exist with lighting.

LEDs do produce more light watt for watt over older methods of light production.

In the aspect of lighting technology a watt does not equal a watt of light output with all varieties of lights. A led does not scale the same as a tungsten filament light bulb just as ceramic MH is not the same as MH


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## hyroot (Sep 11, 2015)

BM9AGS said:


> Correct however dirty was giving guidance as tho effiency does not exist with lighting.
> 
> LEDs do produce more light watt for watt over older methods of light production.
> 
> In the aspect of lighting technology a watt does not equal a watt of light output with all varieties of lights. A led does not scale the same as a tungsten filament light bulb just as ceramic MH is not the same as MH



Lol some people right.


Hey dirty

A watt is a watt in the sense that it's the amount of power being pulled at the plug.

The amount of light being produced has nothing to do with watts.

Anything that uses any kind of power, be it electric, nuclear, combustion , etc.... all has efficiency ratings


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Sep 11, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Watt is a watt. It's about efficiency and photons when comparing lighting.
> 
> A 600w hps puts out 420 watts of heat and 180 watts of light
> 
> ...


So you're saying a 300 watt led is almost an equivalent to a 600 watt hps? I'd like to see that. 

Leds are @ about 100 lumens per watt hids are around 120 lumens per watt. 

Leds also produce an extremely minimal amount of uv light. Thats not a good quality in a grow lamp. We all know uv light has its benefits.


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Sep 11, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Lol some people right.
> 
> 
> Hey dirty
> ...


This is coming from a guy who thinks you should use red spectrum in veg and blue spectrum in flower. Yeah, some people.


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## hyroot (Sep 11, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> This is coming from a guy who thinks you should use red spectrum in veg and blue spectrum in flower. Yeah, some people.



I never said that. I said we should use full spectrum like the sun.

I said red supresses stretching in veg and blue supresses stretching flower. 

Dude wanted to know if it's ok to veg with hps. Everyone was talking out of their ass quoting an inaccurate and out of date book.


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## hyroot (Sep 11, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> So you're saying a 300 watt led is almost an equivalent to a 600 watt hps? I'd like to see that.
> 
> Leds are @ about 100 lumens per watt hids are around 120 lumens per watt.
> 
> Leds also produce an extremely minimal amount of uv light. Thats not a good quality in a grow lamp. We all know uv light has its benefits.




Lumens has no place in plant growth. Lumens is visible light to the human eye.

It depends on the led too. Led produces more photons (PAR ) per watt than hps does.

600w hps on average produces 1200 umole/s for 12 inches away where a 315 w cmh produces 1360 umole/s at the same distance. My a51 150w led produces 1050 umole/s at 12 inches away. 2 of those would match a 600w on performace.

The only benefit hps has is penetration all that green wave lengths penetrating to the lower growth


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Sep 11, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Lumens has no place in plant growth. Lumens is visible light to the human eye.
> 
> It depends on the led too. Led produces more photons (PAR ) per watt than hps does.
> 
> ...


The only benefit leds have over hps that is obvious to me is that the large area of light output-the diodes are spread out over the whole light fixture. The same benefit T5's have-the overall source of light is spread out, and thus, more useable.

And what is a umole? Are you talking about micromoles?


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Sep 11, 2015)

hyroot said:


> I never said that. I said we should use full spectrum like the sun.
> 
> *I said red supresses stretching in veg and blue supresses stretching flower. *
> 
> Dude wanted to know if it's ok to veg with hps. Everyone was talking out of their ass quoting an inaccurate and out of date book.


And you're still the only person I've heard this from. Just sayin


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## BM9AGS (Sep 11, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> The only benefit leds have over hps that is obvious to me is that the large area of light output-the diodes are spread out over the whole light fixture. The same benefit T5's have-the overall source of light is spread out, and thus, more useable.
> 
> And what is a umole? Are you talking about micromoles?


Dirty. You still haven't intelligently articulated how a watt is a watt with hid to LED lighting.

I hope you've learned now that telling the other member he's wrong with LEDs having more output per watt. Anyway.

My Zelion HL produces 1124 PPFD at 24". It uses less than 100 watts!!!!! Clearly that is more efficient than HID.

I don't think you can conceptualize that led technology can produce more light plants use than HID.


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## BM9AGS (Sep 11, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> The only benefit leds have over hps that is obvious to me is that the large area of light output-the diodes are spread out over the whole light fixture. The same benefit T5's have-the overall source of light is spread out, and thus, more useable.
> 
> And what is a umole? Are you talking about micromoles?



micromole _[umol]_
_
Same same. 
_


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Sep 12, 2015)

BM9AGS said:


> Dirty. You still haven't intelligently articulated how a watt is a watt with hid to LED lighting.
> 
> *I hope you've learned now that telling the other member he's wrong with LEDs having more output per watt. Anyway.*
> 
> ...


Yeah, I can see how I kinda contradicted myself a little there. And the whole watt is a watt is a basic comparison between two technologies that are not as far apart as you would like. Leds may be slightly more "efficient" but at what cost? And also because its negligent to tell people that a 300 watt led is the same as a 600 watt hid, cause its not. Thats just giving bad information to gullible people everywhere. 
I must not be alone when its comes to being able to "conceptualize" led technology cause most growers still prefer hid lighting. 

And you can shoot out all kinds of numbers and terms(gimmicks) that are used to get people to buy overpriced lights. I do hope you realize that these companies are swindling people with these claims so they can make money. They are using the gullible to fund there research and development departments. Or they are just flat out ripping people off. One or the two or whichever makes you feel better.


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## churchhaze (Sep 13, 2015)

Red does suppress stretch in veg. A higher R:FR ratio causes more total phytochromes to be in the form of Pfr, the active state. Cyan, green, amber, and far-red will all cause more stretch than 630-660nm red.


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## budterrorizt (Sep 14, 2015)

I ran a 600hps with 2-180w led panels on each side of it..... And there was a very large difference in production. LED's work great if you do your homework and also the time. It seemed for me at least to take a couple extra weeks in both veg and bloom. But at they same time they seemed a little happier, almost like they were gettin a little more that they needed. But of course these are just what i experienced, not everyone has the same outcome!!


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> Red does suppress stretch in veg. A higher R:FR ratio causes more total phytochromes to be in the form of Pfr, the active state. Cyan, green, amber, and far-red will all cause more stretch than 630-660nm red.


I run one each of HPS thouie and 860W CDM in my pre bloom veg. I see massive stretch everywhere...


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2015)

budterrorizt said:


> I ran a 600hps with 2-180w led panels on each side of it..... And there was a very large difference in production. LED's work great if you do your homework and also the time. It seemed for me at least to take a couple extra weeks in both veg and bloom. But at they same time they seemed a little happier, almost like they were gettin a little more that they needed. But of course these are just what i experienced, not everyone has the same outcome!!


Did your temperatures drop a bit? LED tends to run cooler, which might help explain why things took longer.


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## budterrorizt (Sep 14, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Did your temperatures drop a bit? LED tends to run cooler, which might help explain why things took longer.


When i was running just the leds by themselves , there was a considerable difference in temps, roughly 10-15 deg F, but i also have a small area as well so everything is noticed!! When i added the HPS along with the leds, my temps got up there very quickly. Just wihin a few hours my temps hit 95 with the existing ventialtion that inwas running. At that time inwas using a single 4" inline, but since adding and subtracting different things i had to bump up my ventilation quite a bit


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2015)

budterrorizt said:


> When i was running just the leds by themselves , there was a considerable difference in temps, roughly 10-15 deg F, but i also have a small area as well so everything is noticed!! When i added the HPS along with the leds, my temps got up there very quickly. Just wihin a few hours my temps hit 95 with the existing ventialtion that inwas running. At that time inwas using a single 4" inline, but since adding and subtracting different things i had to bump up my ventilation quite a bit


That difference in temperature had a lot to do with speeding up your plant's cycle.


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## churchhaze (Sep 14, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I run one each of HPS thouie and 860W CDM in my pre bloom veg. I see massive stretch everywhere...


HPS is very high in amber and also has a relatively high amount of far-red (730nm) which causes stretch. 660nm inhibits stretch.


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> HPS is very high in amber and also has a relatively high amount of far-red (730nm) which causes stretch. 660nm inhibits stretch.


Right- which is why I use one, lol- I'm trying to get the plant to stretch and grow to cover a 4' x 6' trellis!


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## chuck estevez (Sep 14, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Right- which is why I use one, lol- I'm trying to get the plant to stretch and grow to cover a 4' x 6' trellis!


you would probably like this thing
https://www.sunlightsupply.com/shop/bycategory/lec-lep-led/sun-system-grow-beast-1000-de-plus-2-lec-315


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## Darth Vapour (Sep 14, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Hmmmm... I call 'BULLSHIT'.
> 
> In fact, the newer COB LED chips can be run very effectively and efficiently at fractions of their rated output, in which case the mean time between failure rate goes long. Really long...
> 
> ...


 Actually Failure rates in the cob is hard to judge considering there new what if some one clocked the cobs ???


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## ttystikk (Sep 14, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> you would probably like this thing
> https://www.sunlightsupply.com/shop/bycategory/lec-lep-led/sun-system-grow-beast-1000-de-plus-2-lec-315


I am already using that combination; one HPS thouie and one 860W CDM- only I don't bother with a fixture.


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## D350 (Oct 15, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> So you're saying a 300 watt led is almost an equivalent to a 600 watt hps? I'd like to see that.
> 
> Leds are @ about 100 lumens per watt hids are around 120 lumens per watt.
> 
> Leds also produce an extremely minimal amount of uv light. Thats not a good quality in a grow lamp. We all know uv light has its benefits.


600W HPS has around 150 lumens/W. Very very good and expensive leds reach 100lm/W! Usually 50lm/W up.
Although reflecting losses are less with leds. To be safe, if you want to replace hps lamp, you need at least half the wattage leds. Meaning feeding them with the wattage! Not slaping 100w with 50W power.
You are right, there are too much excitement about leds. We are not there yet.


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## BM9AGS (Oct 15, 2015)

D350 said:


> 600W HPS has around 150 lumens/W. Very very good and expensive leds reach 100lm/W! Usually 50lm/W up.
> Although reflecting losses are less with leds. To be safe, if you want to replace hps lamp, you need at least half the wattage leds. Meaning feeding them with the wattage! Not slaping 100w with 50W power.
> You are right, there are too much excitement about leds. We are not there yet.


Good job making up shit.

High temp led Cree cobs are getting 240LPW


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## budterrorizt (Oct 16, 2015)

Not to bust into another arguement here but i have always understood that lumens dont really matter when comparing led to hps.... I have been through roughly 6 different led and hps setups, the best led lights are the ones that are backed by testing and knowledge and most importantly that offer the best PAR spectrum, because honestly hps sucks for full par spectrum, dont care whT bulbs and other stuff people put up, nothing compares to led when it comes to full PAR output. Most importantly.... Alot of people talk about led lights, but lets talk brands, actual wattage usuage and full testing compared to hps.... These cheap crap china lights are whats making led growing so poopy! I went down that road and it sucked.... But man when i got my hands a lumigrow and a solarstorm!! Yeah thats a huge difference!! 

One thing to inwas told by a very VERY seasoned and well known grower is this, your gonna pay damn near $1 a watt when it comes to led.... If its 49$ for a 180w ufo ..... Your wasting your time and money, not to mention embarrassing yourself and everyone else growing under led!!! 

I have had numerous grows under led, went back to hps and absolutely hate it, thats why im switching back after this harvest.... If done properly, you will otice the difference and begin to see what everyone is talking about. I gained weigt, density with the loss of heat and had fewer defcs as well, and considering i use dwc, my buckets and res stayed roughly 10-15' cooler.... And they are insulated as well. 

In a nutshell everyone has they own way of doing things, i make my fried chicken in buttermilk and cornmeal, but my gma makes it with egg and flour... But boh are very effective and taste great!!!


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## fishdeth (Oct 16, 2015)

Anyone mentioned these?
CDM... Ceramic Discharge Metal halide
1 lamp for Veg AND Flower.
315 Watts, outperforms 600W HPS/MH
Way better light spectrum, AND it runs WAY cooler than a 400W HPS/MH

I am LOVING this baby !!!


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Oct 16, 2015)

How do they compare to double ended bulbs? Or the newer ceramic metal halide, or ceramic discharge metal halide. The spectrum of the ceramic halides is about unbeatable in my opinion. >92 cri.


budterrorizt said:


> Not to bust into another arguement here but i have always understood that lumens dont really matter when comparing led to hps.... I have been through roughly 6 different led and hps setups, the best led lights are the ones that are backed by testing and knowledge and most importantly that offer the best PAR spectrum, because honestly hps sucks for full par spectrum, dont care whT bulbs and other stuff people put up, nothing compares to led when it comes to full PAR output. Most importantly.... Alot of people talk about led lights, but lets talk brands, actual wattage usuage and full testing compared to hps.... These cheap crap china lights are whats making led growing so poopy! I went down that road and it sucked.... But man when i got my hands a lumigrow and a solarstorm!! Yeah thats a huge difference!!
> 
> One thing to inwas told by a very VERY seasoned and well known grower is this, your gonna pay damn near $1 a watt when it comes to led.... If its 49$ for a 180w ufo ..... Your wasting your time and money, not to mention embarrassing yourself and everyone else growing under led!!!
> 
> ...


I knew someone would bring PAR up... again. Eye hortilux came out with new T5 bulbs. In their own advertisement against "the leading competitor" they showed their lamps, with a meter, offer *WAY LESS PAR. *They pretty much claim PAR isn't nearly as important as all you guys keep preaching... _"Its not lumens, its par". _I figure they know more than any of us since *they design freakin bulbs!* All these numbers and charts make me want to fucking bust out laughing. You guys are way over thinking this whole thing.


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Oct 16, 2015)

fishdeth said:


> Anyone mentioned these?
> CDM... Ceramic Discharge Metal halide
> 1 lamp for Veg AND Flower.
> 315 Watts, outperforms 600W HPS/MH
> ...


Agree. I'm running those exact bulbs. Spectrum is awesome. No more HPS and regular MH. Now I just run these in place of both. Awesome, effective and cheap. Kind of the opposite of leds


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## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2015)

fishdeth said:


> Anyone mentioned these?
> CDM... Ceramic Discharge Metal halide
> 1 lamp for Veg AND Flower.
> 315 Watts, outperforms 600W HPS/MH
> ...


The 315W light will perform like 400W of HPS. Don't believe the hype. Btw, it's the ballast that makes it better, I've been running the 860W CDM lamps for years.


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 16, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> Awesome, effective and cheap. Kind of the opposite of leds


You mean traditional LEDs, of course. The COB LES (Light Emitting Surface) type like Cree CXB and Bridgelux Vero 29s are expensive, no doubt, and one pretty much has to DIY. But they are awesome (efficient) and effective (frosty and near 2g/W results) beyond anything else. Yes, I'm asserting that. Thanks to @ttystikk I'm a believer in the CDM stuff, but I am headed the LES route myself. The efficiency of something like the 36V CXB3590 (CB-DD bin) is unbeatable. Maybe you're just trolling, I don't know, but it made my butthole itch when I read that.


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## MonsterDrank (Oct 16, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> if all you can afford is a cheapy led,, dont get it,, go with HID . Mh instead or DIY or area 51


AGREED.

Listen to Tim. Stay away from the cheap Chinese garbage. 

Unless you have real cash to spend on a nice light.. avoid LED. Those Mars Hydro Lights are junk.
I run both HPS and LED, but I invested close to $1k on my LED light.. at the lower price level you'd be much better off grabbing a cheap ballast and bulb. You'd get much better performance and something that probably won't break within the first year of turning it on.


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## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> You mean traditional LEDs, of course. The COB LES (Light Emitting Surface) type like Cree CXB and Bridgelux Vero 29s are expensive, no doubt, and one pretty much has to DIY. But they are awesome (efficient) and effective (frosty and near 2g/W results) beyond anything else. Yes, I'm asserting that. Thanks to @ttystikk I'm a believer in the CDM stuff, but I am headed the LES route myself. The efficiency of something like the 36V CXB3590 (CB-DD bin) is unbeatable. Maybe you're just trolling, I don't know, but it made my butthole itch when I read that.


I'm a believer in CDM lighting, but if there's something better- read more efficient- I'm all over it.


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## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2015)

MonsterDrank said:


> AGREED.
> 
> Listen to Tim. Stay away from the cheap Chinese garbage.
> 
> ...


For @Deadlytalon2014 and others new to the LED grow lighting industry; Here's the inside story, just to spell it out; us growers have discovered a better lighting system than HID. The newest COB LED chips, underdriven to boost efficiency, produce more bud per watt than anything else out there. These are NOT the 'blurple' lights you may have seen in the past.

Trouble is, the established LED manufacturers are still stuck with a supply line full of the old stuff and they don't want to/can't upgrade that fast.

Again, us growers have a solution; DIY lighting systems. You buy COB chips, drivers, heat sinks and some assorted bits like COB holders, lenses, thermal paste and wiring and build your own world class lighting system.

It's not even that expensive and the chips will last for a lifetime of growing... not sure on the drivers but they last a long time too.

In five years COB LED will be hailed by the industry as an electricity conserving messiah. At that point you won't be able to give away a used HID setup. By then the manufacturers will be up to speed producing panels with the new chips for retail and the usual hype will ensue.

Meanwhile, the DIY lights you've built will still be quietly doing their job. Cheap.

Some people will read this and laugh. Check back with me in five years and we'll see who's right.


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> For @Deadlytalon2014 and others new to the LED grow lighting industry; Here's the inside story, just to spell it out; us growers have discovered a better lighting system than HID. The newest COB LED chips, underdriven to boost efficiency, produce more bud per watt than anything else out there. These are NOT the 'blurple' lights you may have seen in the past.
> 
> Trouble is, the established LED manufacturers are still stuck with a supply line full of the old stuff and they don't want to/can't upgrade that fast.
> 
> ...


I've been making these same sort of predictions for about a year now. I could not agree more.
There are a lot of people who simply refuse to believe the day will come when "you won't be able to give away a used HID setup." - but I think those folks should think about how the local buggy-whip salesman must have felt when motorized carriages (automobiles) hit the scene. "Just a fad, it will never catch on. That's unreliable, unproven technology" they must have said. People felt the same way about computers, too. In 1980 it was assumed by most people and businesses alike that there was no real consumer market for computers. 35 years later and it is hard to imagine we ever believed such things. When I was a kid I had a rotary phone, now I have an incredible touch-screen computer in my pocket, and it makes calls too. Progress is inevitable, and COBs are going to kill everything else, soon.

Too bad we can't all just grow in the sun, like it was meant to be. It's like, free, man. Unless of course some cock-headed billionaires figure out how to sell it to us and put us in jail for unauthorized use. I'm sure they have people working on it.


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## fishdeth (Oct 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm a believer in CDM lighting, but if there's something better- read more efficient- I'm all over it.


More efficient would be cool, but with my small grow, I don't care.
This thing is WAY brighter than my backup 400W HPS/MH setup, and the spectrum is SO much better and my plants will attest to how much they like it.
In my honest opinion, it is WAY better, and I keep my old system on standby for emergency backup, but I would be SCRAMBLING to get another CDM back up and running ASAP should anything fail!
I'm just a little guy growing for wifey's meds and our own personal use, only 2 plants at a time.
I get very up close and personal with my garden and I noticed right away the dif in this lamp/ballast setup
It's the bee's knees I tell ya !


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## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2015)

fishdeth said:


> More efficient would be cool, but with my small grow, I don't care.
> This thing is WAY brighter than my backup 400W HPS/MH setup, and the spectrum is SO much better and my plants will attest to how much they like it.
> In my honest opinion, it is WAY better, and I keep my old system on standby for emergency backup, but I would be SCRAMBLING to get another CDM back up and running ASAP should anything fail!
> I'm just a little guy growing for wifey's meds and our own personal use, only 2 plants at a time.
> ...


Oh yeah. Spectrum is fantastic, isn't it?


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## house34 (Oct 19, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> I just took my Mars hydro out of my box, the Mars hydro ran to hot, go to led section and look at thread another Mars in the dumpster, none of those three or five watt LED can compete with a hid mh light, the only LED we recommend around here is cob lights, come over to led section and see for yourself


 
Grown under Mars Hydro II 700w w/ 5 watt leds.


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## harris hawk (Oct 19, 2015)

There is some talk about LED's not producing the "specifications" listed - concerning strength and spectrum - Still feel that LED's need a bit more time to "dial" in their products - and maybe in time the price will come down - don't get me wrong Led's do work like any other light system but would still choose HPS or CFL's for now


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2015)

house34 said:


> View attachment 3524221
> Grown under Mars Hydro II 700w w/ 5 watt leds.


I call bogus, a Mars light would not cover the size tent shown, Mars seems to have thier group of minions who are either new members or they have not posted much, and yet they swear by their Mars panel, the same trash most of us led guys have ditched for diy cob lights


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## Chex lemeneux (Oct 19, 2015)

house34 said:


> View attachment 3524221
> Grown under Mars Hydro II 700w w/ 5 watt leds.


think i see a nanner in there, better watch out for seeds.


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## nk14zp (Oct 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm a believer in CDM lighting, but if there's something better- read more efficient- I'm all over it.


Do cdm bulbs need different ballasts than mh/hps?


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2015)

nk14zp said:


> Do cdm bulbs need different ballasts than mh/hps?


yes


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 19, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> I call bogus, a Mars light would not cover the size tent shown, Mars seems to have thier group of minions who are either new members or they have not posted much, and yet they swear by their Mars panel, the same trash most of us led guys have ditched for diy cob lights


They do however veg better than cfls , much tighter node spacing and shorter plants are a positive of using the mars hydro for veg. Plus you can replace a cfl fixture for about the same price. I am flowering under some cheap chinese leds on one side and some more expensive ones on the other. Gonna see what I can get out of them.

You seem to try and speak for the whole forum when you talk about cobs, while many agree that cobs are the way to go I have seen plenty of success on these forums using 3w and 5w diodes. Honestly the only thing you don't get is coverage space.

Just saying, maybe you shouldn't make blanket statements it doesn't do anything but make a toxic conversation.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2015)

Siino Gardens said:


> They do however veg better than cfls , much tighter node spacing and shorter plants are a positive of using the mars hydro for veg. Plus you can replace a cfl fixture for about the same price. I am flowering under some cheap chinese leds on one side and some more expensive ones on the other. Gonna see what I can get out of them.
> 
> You seem to try and speak for the whole forum when you talk about cobs, while many agree that cobs are the way to go I have seen plenty of success on these forums using 3w and 5w diodes. Honestly the only thing you don't get is coverage space.
> 
> Just saying, maybe you shouldn't make blanket statements it doesn't do anything but make a toxic conversation.


Dude,, sadly Mars housings are about the least efficient led out there, they make more heat than they do light,, sadly, if you already own CFL's I would just keep using those,, if you need a veg light you would be FAR BETTER off building a cob fixture from 5000k cobs, several guys have build threads here for veg lights,


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> Dude,, sadly Mars housings are about the least efficient led out there, they make more heat than they do light,, sadly, if you already own CFL's I would just keep using those,, if you need a veg light you would be FAR BETTER off building a cob fixture from 5000k cobs, several guys have build threads here for veg lights,


EDIT,, these are not blanket statements,, my mars went into the trash can, you can find my thread on it, wasted money,, its not hot air, its real life experience from me,, bough one, used it,, I tried to make it better,, spent more money ( down the drain I may ad), and replaced it with real leds,,, those blurple lights are a big waste of time and money


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2015)

Siino Gardens said:


> They do however veg better than cfls , much tighter node spacing and shorter plants are a positive of using the mars hydro for veg. Plus you can replace a cfl fixture for about the same price. I am flowering under some cheap chinese leds on one side and some more expensive ones on the other. Gonna see what I can get out of them.
> 
> You seem to try and speak for the whole forum when you talk about cobs, while many agree that cobs are the way to go I have seen plenty of success on these forums using 3w and 5w diodes. Honestly the only thing you don't get is coverage space.
> 
> Just saying, maybe you shouldn't make blanket statements it doesn't do anything but make a toxic conversation.


Also it needs to be pointed out,,another new guys singing the praises of 3 and 5 watt leds, ,, just created his profile and has 22 posts, where is mars finding these people?


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 19, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> EDIT,, these are not blanket statements,, my mars went into the trash can, you can find my thread on it, wasted money,, its not hot air, its real life experience from me,, bough one, used it,, I tried to make it better,, spent more money ( down the drain I may ad), and replaced it with real leds,,, those blurple lights are a big waste of time and money


I am not going to argue, you might still be a little butthurt about your experiences but I have had plenty of great crops come out over my 2+ years using LED panels. 

Blanket statements don't help consumers pick a product that best suits their needs, and whining about your past experiences like it is golden fact for everyone is a little silly. I didn't say the LED panels I have would work for you, but I also don't discount the fact that they work.


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 19, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> Also it needs to be pointed out,,another new guys singing the praises of 3 and 5 watt leds, ,, just created his profile and has 22 posts, where is mars finding these people?


You can point out all you want, just because someone is new to THIS forum doesn't mean they just started growing yesterday. I would bet that I have leagues more experience and knowledge than you do. I apologize you don't know how to grow weed with LEDs but some of us do.

I also haven't said what brands I use other than a mars in my veg, so continue to be a toxic dickrider. Anymore dribble out of you and it'll be the ignore list.

( here is just ONE grower who has used cheap lights to achieve great things, she goes by Indica Angel and unlike my account she has been around here for quite some time. Instead of being like mr failure who needs a tampon I bring you truth. )

https://www.rollitup.org/t/cookies-and-herer-led-scrog.845825/

[here is another journal posted here, his first time with LED's but 60 grams a plant ain't bad.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/600w-mars-hydro-192x3-first-led-grow.865660/ ]

Lastly I have my own proof for you to experience
https://www.rollitup.org/t/enter-into-the-realm-of-siino-gardens.886783/


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## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2015)

nk14zp said:


> Do cdm bulbs need different ballasts than mh/hps?





Tim Fox said:


> yes


Not necessarily. The 860W CDM lamps I'm running want the old school MAGNETIC thousand watt ballast, set to run MH lamps. These are cheap and widely available.

The 315W LEC lamps are designed to run on the real innovation in the package, the digital low frequency square wave ballast. It's the square wave that makes the 315W lamp more efficient, not the lamp itself. These ballasts are generally sold with a lap as a kit.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2015)

[QUOTE="ttystikk, post: 11997352, member: 32429cdm]Not necessarily. The 860W CDM lamps I'm running want the old school MAGNETIC thousand watt ballast, set to run MH lamps. These are cheap and widely available.

The 315W LEC lamps are designed to run on the real innovation in the package, the digital low frequency square wave ballast. It's the square wave that makes the 315W lamp more efficient, not the lamp itself. These ballasts are generally sold with a lap as a kit.[/QUOTE]
Some people go with the 220 volt ballast with the cdm


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 19, 2015)

Any light you choose to grow with even sunlight will have its ups and downs and quirks, being a grower of anything even food it is our job to adapt our strategy to the environment it is in. For instance, if you go high pressure sodium it is commonly known that most of the light given off isn't even used by the plants. The heat COULD be a positive though, if you are growing in freezing temperatures outside it could stabilize the temperature throughout the winter for ya.

Now if you grab LED's, the cheaper ones put off a high amount of heat as well but the more expensive ones run a lot cooler. This could pose the opposite problem of not having enough heat in your room to maintain optimal temperatures. Also if you use LEDs I would recommend using a trellis and filling out the trellis before flowering. Maximize the light, if your bottom buds aren't up to par then next round snip off the bottom bud sites if you prefer.

Make the best decision that works for you and your goal, if you are growing for personal LEDs do a fine job and the power bill is low, commercial might wanna stick with HPS for now or grab some CoBs as they seem to have a much better footprint. If you live in a city I would suggest LEDs as well just for the fact that there are many people getting caught up from the frequency that the hps ballasts give off, it fucks with the neighbors cable and is easy to trace to you.

Do some homework first, scout out the people who have been successful with the method you want to try and then see if there are more than one achieving success. I don't advocate picking up cheap panels but if you do just be ready to replace them at a moments notice.

I bid this thread ado, don't listen to people who tell you something won't work just because it didn't work for them. The proof is in the pudding not in stories about how ones own ability to adapt wasn't up to par.

was a member since 2009, decided to come back and check it out and share my experiences again. Forgot my old email address and password that I used and so I had to make a new account. Not everything is what it seems.


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## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> Not necessarily. The 860W CDM lamps I'm running want the old school MAGNETIC thousand watt ballast, set to run MH lamps. These are cheap and widely available.
> 
> The 315W LEC lamps are designed to run on the real innovation in the package, the digital low frequency square wave ballast. It's the square wave that makes the 315W lamp more efficient, not the lamp itself. These ballasts are generally sold with a lap as a kit.
> 
> Some people go with the 220 volt ballast with the cdm


As far as I know, that little 315W ballast has to run on 208/220/240, it won't run at all on wall current. The thousand watt magnetic ballasts generally have receptacles for both 120V and 240V.


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## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2015)

Siino Gardens said:


> Any light you choose to grow with even sunlight will have its ups and downs and quirks, being a grower of anything even food it is our job to adapt our strategy to the environment it is in. For instance, if you go high pressure sodium it is commonly known that most of the light given off isn't even used by the plants. The heat COULD be a positive though, if you are growing in freezing temperatures outside it could stabilize the temperature throughout the winter for ya.
> 
> Now if you grab LED's, the cheaper ones put off a high amount of heat as well but the more expensive ones run a lot cooler. This could pose the opposite problem of not having enough heat in your room to maintain optimal temperatures. Also if you use LEDs I would recommend using a trellis and filling out the trellis before flowering. Maximize the light, if your bottom buds aren't up to par then next round snip off the bottom bud sites if you prefer.
> 
> ...


Tl;Dr

You're still shilling for obsolete gear- and your shrill tone makes people suspicious.


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 19, 2015)

LoL I had respect for you over the years TT, fortunately for me they added this ignore feature.

*Thanks for the chuckle guys, unlike you both I actually have intent to help the others.*


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## hyroot (Oct 19, 2015)

My light is bigger than yours


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 19, 2015)

hyroot said:


> My light is bigger than yours


root!  your party cup lady has more hair than mine!!!!!


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## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2015)

hyroot said:


> My light is bigger than yours


Oh, have I got a light for you, buddy...

Just you wait n see what me and my evil genius buddies are cooking up!


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Oh, have I got a light for you, buddy...
> 
> Just you wait n see what me and my evil genius buddies are cooking up!


Hopefully its one that makes you less of an asshole


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> As far as I know, that little 315W ballast has to run on 208/220/240, it won't run at all on wall current. The thousand watt magnetic ballasts generally have receptacles for both 120V and 240V.


my 315 plugs directlyinto the wall outlet and you can daisy chain upto 4 units on a 20 amp fuse...

can some one please tell me why a person can diy a bad ass led if they are knowledgable,, wile if you cant diy and buy one from big companies they cost tripple the amount and are not half as good as the diy units??? i mean a company doesnt build 1 lamp, they build them by the thousands,, that should bring the cost of building them down,, not up?? it mAkes no sence to me!!


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 19, 2015)

p.s im loving the ceramic lamps so far!!! electric bill is half what it was,, and yield is better than it was running 2 400 watt hps's...oh,, and heat has NOT been a problem,, these things run much cooler then my cooltubes that wer exaughsting heat even!!!


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 19, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> my 315 plugs directlyinto the wall outlet and you can daisy chain upto 4 units on a 20 amp fuse...
> 
> can some one please tell me why a person can diy a bad ass led if they are knowledgable,, wile if you cant diy and buy one from big companies they cost tripple the amount and are not half as good as the diy units??? i mean a company doesnt build 1 lamp, they build them by the thousands,, that should bring the cost of building them down,, not up?? it mAkes no sence to me!!


Easiest answer is cheap parts, the ones you use to make your own cost way more than the parts put into the cheap panels. Another is research that goes into this and employees. All the costs add up and are passed on to the consumer. Take away labor/research/cost of warehouse etc etc they might actually be able to put out a nice product for a decent price.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2015)

Siino Gardens said:


> You can point out all you want, just because someone is new to THIS forum doesn't mean they just started growing yesterday. I would bet that I have leagues more experience and knowledge than you do. I apologize you don't know how to grow weed with LEDs but some of us do.
> 
> I also haven't said what brands I use other than a mars in my veg, so continue to be a toxic dickrider. Anymore dribble out of you and it'll be the ignore list.
> 
> ...


Please take notice of the title of this thread " LED VERSE HPS"" not the "kumbayaaa lets all love one another thread",, its also not titled,, " please prove to me that blurple lights work",,, those are all on another forum,,, and then to compare sunlight to led,, please,, we are not kidnergardners


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## dandyrandy (Oct 19, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> my 315 plugs directlyinto the wall outlet and you can daisy chain upto 4 units on a 20 amp fuse...
> 
> can some one please tell me why a person can diy a bad ass led if they are knowledgable,, wile if you cant diy and buy one from big companies they cost tripple the amount and are not half as good as the diy units??? i mean a company doesnt build 1 lamp, they build them by the thousands,, that should bring the cost of building them down,, not up?? it mAkes no sence to me!!


The big cost of good cob led fixtures is in the constant current supplies and the cob itself. Much more markup in lower quality components. I use ~80 cfm to move air through my grow area of ~11 sq feet with 800w of vero 29's. Stays below 84° 6 inches below the led. I built mine like a coolhood. 4 per fixture. DIY you build the light to fit the area. It takes a lot more air to cool 800w of cmh.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2015)

Many,, Many of us try and do steer many a new comer to the best devices to grow with, many many of us steer them away from blurple lights,, and then we are very happy in the end, 
Then on top of that,, many of us DIY LED guys steer new comers to HID HPS MH instead of led when its felt they cant build thier own lights, at least they will be successful in thier work,,


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2015)

hyroot said:


> My light is bigger than yours


Oh man,, back to Mouser I go


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## house34 (Oct 19, 2015)

Chex lemeneux said:


> think i see a nanner in there, better watch out for seeds.


Yes it does, its a clone of a hermit plant I really enjoy the smoke it produces. This is the last one though because I didn't take any more clones.


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## house34 (Oct 19, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> I call bogus, a Mars light would not cover the size tent shown, Mars seems to have thier group of minions who are either new members or they have not posted much, and yet they swear by their Mars panel, the same trash most of us led guys have ditched for diy cob lights


Size tent shown? Those are the results I'm getting with my cheapo led's. So sue me if I don't run out and spend my money to please you. You're right I don't post much. I read and learn and when I can add some good info about things I am doing or have done I post. I wouldn't say that if it isn't truthful because someone would run out and spend there money needlessly.


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## nk14zp (Oct 20, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> my 315 plugs directlyinto the wall outlet and you can daisy chain upto 4 units on a 20 amp fuse...


Got a link to the 315s your running?


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## Tim Fox (Oct 20, 2015)

house34 said:


> Size tent shown? Thosclarihe results I'm getting with my cheapo led's. So sue me if I don't run out and spend my money to please you. You're right I don't post much. I read and learn and when I can add some good info about things I am doing or have done I post. I wouldn't say that if it isn't truthful because someone would run out and spend there money needlessly.


Is this led verses hps? , what's with all the blurple stuff


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 20, 2015)

house34 said:


> Grown under Mars Hydro II 700w w/ 5 watt leds.








Grown Under Mars Hydro 150W with 600 .25 Watt LEDs.
(anyone can make a post like this)


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 20, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Grown Under Mars Hydro 150W with 600 .25 Watt LEDs.
> (anyone can make a post like this)


damn, lets get mars to grow back the rainforests


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

Siino Gardens said:


> Hopefully its one that makes you less of an asshole


Funny, I didn't call you any names at all. I didn't insult you. I didn't even say you were wrong! I just said that your tone was itself a bit suspicious.

Now, you've come back and cussed me, so I know you aren't credible... and now everyone else knows, too. Ya did that to yourself!

And finally, you're a liar too; you'd have never responded at all if you'd kept your word and actually put me on ignore!


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> my 315 plugs directlyinto the wall outlet and you can daisy chain upto 4 units on a 20 amp fuse...
> 
> can some one please tell me why a person can diy a bad ass led if they are knowledgable,, wile if you cant diy and buy one from big companies they cost tripple the amount and are not half as good as the diy units??? i mean a company doesnt build 1 lamp, they build them by the thousands,, that should bring the cost of building them down,, not up?? it mAkes no sence to me!!


It's all about supply chains. The LED makers are loaded up with blurple chips, so they gotta move them before they can upgrade.


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> Many,, Many of us try and do steer many a new comer to the best devices to grow with, many many of us steer them away from blurple lights,, and then we are very happy in the end,
> Then on top of that,, many of us DIY LED guys steer new comers to HID HPS MH instead of led when its felt they cant build thier own lights, at least they will be successful in thier work,,


Yeah, @churchhaze tried to do the same with me, lol

It separates the lookie loos from the serious, however.


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## house34 (Oct 20, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Grown Under Mars Hydro 150W with 600 .25 Watt LEDs.
> (anyone can make a post like this)


I really don't understand you guys. I'm not selling anything, I never said that Mars II are the best lights available. I simply showed you the results that I am getting in my grow. You guys ought to get out more if you think that I'm trying to deceive you. But calling me a liar is crossing the line.


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

house34 said:


> I really don't understand you guys. I'm not selling anything, I never said that Mars II are the best lights available. I simply showed you the results that I am getting in my grow. You guys ought to get out more if you think that I'm trying to deceive you. But calling me a liar is crossing the line.


I stand by every word.


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## house34 (Oct 20, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I stand by every word.


I guess your just better than me.


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## house34 (Oct 20, 2015)

I stand by what I said. Untrimmed, trimmed and time/ date stamped. #freeyourmind


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

house34 said:


> I guess your just better than me.


What you're forgetting is that I didn't start anything.


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## house34 (Oct 20, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> What you're forgetting is that I didn't start anything.


You were saying that I was lying when I posted my original pic. I didn't lie or misrepresent anything including the lighting that I use.


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## house34 (Oct 20, 2015)

When you use the Cob leds are they different color temps or just one?


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

house34 said:


> You were saying that I was lying when I posted my original pic. I didn't lie or misrepresent anything including the lighting that I use.


Dude. It's a thread on an Internet forum. You mean to tell me (and everyone else reading this) that you can't even keep who said what in the conversation straight?

You said you were going to put me on ignore- then obviously did not. THAT'S what I'm talking about. I'm not sure we're even in the same conversation.


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## house34 (Oct 20, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Dude. It's a thread on an Internet forum. You mean to tell me (and everyone else reading this) that you can't even keep who said what in the conversation straight?
> 
> You said you were going to put me on ignore- then obviously did not. THAT'S what I'm talking about. I'm not sure we're even in the same conversation.


 No you were arguing with Siino Gardens he said he would ignore you. I posted the pictures.


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 20, 2015)

nk14zp said:


> Got a link to the 315s your running?


 he meant three 15 watt CFL's but anyways threads like these is getting old as some call it Burple chips haha do grow plants so does CFL's T5 Ho's HID , Plasma, and CMH did i forget something oh yeah Cobblins its that time of the month lol well soon Abracadabra..
I think for a new grower coming into growing it is a better option to go T5 Ho and Hid get couple completed grows then decide if you like this hobby or not due to success.. then only then decide to up grade would suck spending big money on a lighting system that will eventually live out its remainding life in a junk shed ..
A new grower should have a plan like this 
Ok i will run 1 k or 2 K Hid for couple grows this will guarntee you results if you got a green thumb take proceeds from them 2 grows mind you 2 grows with right strain and proper enviroment will land you 8 - 12 pounds 4 min per 2 k run keep 4 pounds as personal lol mind you that is 6 months more or less 2 grows with decent veg time to get a yield 
Then take the other 4 - 5 pound proceeds and decide where you want to upgrade or if not then where you want to go for a HOLIDAY hahaha


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> he meant three 15 watt CFL's but anyways threads like these is getting old as some call it Burple chips haha do grow plants so does CFL's T5 Ho's HID , Plasma, and CMH did i forget something oh yeah Cobblins its that time of the month lol well soon Abracadabra..
> I think for a new grower coming into growing it is a better option to go T5 Ho and Hid get couple completed grows then decide if you like this hobby or not due to success.. then only then decide to up grade would suck spending big money on a lighting system that will eventually live out its remainding life in a junk shed ..
> A new grower should have a plan like this
> Ok i will run 1 k or 2 K Hid for couple grows this will guarntee you results if you got a green thumb take proceeds from them 2 grows mind you 2 grows with right strain and proper enviroment will land you 8 - 12 pounds 4 min per 2 k run keep 4 pounds as personal lol mind you that is 6 months more or less 2 grows with decent veg time to get a yield
> Then take the other 4 - 5 pound proceeds and decide where you want to upgrade or if not then where you want to go for a HOLIDAY hahaha


Noobs don't pull like that their first OR second time out. 

But I still agree with the general point, that one should walk thru the growing process before running to spend thousands on grow lights.


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 20, 2015)

well a person with common sense and understanding of growing would ,,, my first indoor grow was 7 pounds 2 k 76 plants mind you i have hordicultural back ground Farming and planting etc 
Anyways from clone vegged 5 weeks it cost me 300 bucks for 2000 watts mag ballast with open wing and bulb 450 bucks for exhaust fan lets say misc and everything 1000 bucks ducting etc soil Humidifer and De huey already owned


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 20, 2015)

My post was not outright calling anyone a liar, but meant to illustrate that one must use discernment and not come to conclusions based on internet hearsay. Shitstorm detected.

I am still running series 1 Mars Blurple 5w lights myself and I wish I had invested differently. I am growing some seriously dank flowers, just not very efficiently nor in great quantity. I am reinvesting in COBs gradually to reduce electrical load. Not cost, we have cheap elec here, it is trivial, but merely to reduce circuit load and heat. I think with a good pair of COB panels I can get better quality and quantity while reducing load and therefore heat. Win win win win situation.


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## house34 (Oct 20, 2015)

house34 said:


> When you use the Cob leds are they different color temps or just one?


Anyone?


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## hyroot (Oct 20, 2015)

house34 said:


> Anyone?



Preference. 2700k , 3000k, 3500k, or 4000k. Or a mix. Right now people seem to like either 3500k or 4000k. Cree cxb 3070 or cxb 3590. Or Bridgelux Vero 29.


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## a mongo frog (Oct 20, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> My post was not outright calling anyone a liar, but meant to illustrate that one must use discernment and not come to conclusions based on internet hearsay. Shitstorm detected.
> 
> I am still running series 1 Mars Blurple 5w lights myself and I wish I had invested differently. I am growing some seriously dank flowers, just not very efficiently nor in great quantity. I am reinvesting in COBs gradually to reduce electrical load. Not cost, we have cheap elec here, it is trivial, but merely to reduce circuit load and heat. I think with a good pair of COB panels I can get better quality and quantity while reducing load and therefore heat. Win win win win situation.


Couldn't hps give you better quality and better yield then the blurple lamps your using?


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 20, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Couldn't hps give you better quality and better yield then the blurple lamps your using?


I'm running a bunch of fluoros and CFls right now too, but briefly; Yes, partly, but I doubt they would be any frostier than I'm getting. The yield would be better I'm sure. If I had to do it over again I would have started with HID, then moved to COB panels, or just waited to start growing (but due to lack of planning I just sort of stumbled into it) however, HID would be potentially even hotter and run at the same wattage I'm using now. I'm reinvesting, but I'm not going to go back in time. I've seen enough evidence to support COBs kicking ass in the ways I mentioned, and that works for me. I'm not sure why you would you suggest this? Because of the low cost of HID? I've decided I've already mis-invested, so there's no sense in throwing away good money after bad. I'm going to do it right this time, high-end COBs are a fire-and-forget solution to my needs. I'll have them rolling near the beginning of 2016.


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## a mongo frog (Oct 20, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I'm running a bunch of fluoros and CFls right now too, but briefly; Yes, and if I had to do it over again I would have started with HID, then moved to COB panels, or just waited to start growing (but due to lack of planning I just sort of stumbled into it) however, HID would be potentially even hotter and run at the same wattage I'm using now. I'm reinvesting, but I'm not going to go back in time. I've seen enough evidence to support COBs kicking ass in the ways I mentioned, and that works for me. I'm not sure why you would you suggest this? Because of the low cost of HID? I've decided I've already mis-invested, so there's no sense in throwing away good money after bad. I'm going to do it right this time, high-end COBs are a fire-and-forget solution to my needs. I'll have them rolling near the beginning of 2016.


Oh, I was just trying to help your garden is all. Just thought the HID might be your best option. Im down for you to buy Cree's. The more you buy the more money i make. So buy lots please.


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## Yodaweed (Oct 20, 2015)

Those blurple lights are junk, I am currently running 2 blurple panels, 3 600w hps, 2 area 51 rw 150's and the blurple panels yield the least and consume about 350 watts of power. The rw 150's consume 300 watts and produce like 40% more or 50% more than the 2 blurples and each 600w hps is like double the yield of any of my LED setups. LEDs footprint is a joke ,you need to spend THOUSANDS to cover a medium to small sized grow and get quality ones. Just covering a 4x4 area like my 600w hps would cost nearly 4,000$ according to area51's estimate and pricing on their new not released Cree COB series.


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 20, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Oh, I was just trying to help your garden is all. Just thought the HID might be your best option. Im down for you to buy Cree's. The more you buy the more money i make. So buy lots please.


Haha, do you own shares, or an outlet, or what? I'm looking for 8 each 3000k and 6500k 36v CXB3590 *CD bin *or higher, but I'd settle for CB.



Yodaweed said:


> Those blurple lights are junk, I am currently running 2 blurple panels, 3 600w hps, 2 area 51 rw 150's and the blurple panels yield the least and consume about 350 watts of power. The rw 150's consume 300 watts and produce like 40% more or 50% more than the 2 blurples and each 600w hps is like double the yield of any of my LED setups. LEDs footprint is a joke ,you need to spend THOUSANDS to cover a medium to small sized grow and get quality ones.


Thanks for chiming in, always a pleasure, please drive through.

What I mean is I'm pretty sure anyone who has been on this site for more than five minutes knows that blurple LEDs are suboptimal choices. *COBs are badass, HID is badass, COBs are more efficient. Period.*


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## a mongo frog (Oct 20, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Haha, do you own shares, or an outlet, or what? I'm looking for 8 each 3000k and 6500k 36v CXB3590 *CD bin *or higher, but I'd settle for CB.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes i own shares. 455 i think. So I'm part owner.


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> I'm running a bunch of fluoros and CFls right now too, but briefly; Yes, partly, but I doubt they would be any frostier than I'm getting. The yield would be better I'm sure. If I had to do it over again I would have started with HID, then moved to COB panels, or just waited to start growing (but due to lack of planning I just sort of stumbled into it) however, HID would be potentially even hotter and run at the same wattage I'm using now. I'm reinvesting, but I'm not going to go back in time. I've seen enough evidence to support COBs kicking ass in the ways I mentioned, and that works for me. I'm not sure why you would you suggest this? Because of the low cost of HID? I've decided I've already mis-invested, so there's no sense in throwing away good money after bad. I'm going to do it right this time, high-end COBs are a fire-and-forget solution to my needs. I'll have them rolling near the beginning of 2016.


True this. Love the 'fire and forget' part, too.


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Haha, do you own shares, or an outlet, or what? I'm looking for 8 each 3000k and 6500k 36v CXB3590 *CD bin *or higher, but I'd settle for CB.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


CDM more badass than HPS, but otherwise I'm in agreement here. The only remaining reason to run HID is low cost of acquisition. Once you've got your cash flow and grow op situation in order, I recommend COB LED as a second wave kind of upgrade. If you have the means, feel free to skip the first step and proceed directly to COB LED.


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## ttystikk (Oct 20, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Yes i own shares. 455 i think. So I'm part owner.


Wise investment.


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## hyroot (Oct 21, 2015)

That's not how stocks work.

If you own 455 shares in cree you must be hurting. The stock has been down for the past year. Last year it was $60 a share. Then they took a dive. Then went back up to 35 when their Taiwanese subsidiary opened. Then took another dive after that.

Cree stock took a dive yesterday. At $24 a share. Cree stock doesn't have any dividend pay outs either.


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## ttystikk (Oct 21, 2015)

hyroot said:


> That's not how stocks work.
> 
> If you own 455 shares in cree you must be hurting. The stock has been down for the past year. Last year it was $60 a share. Then they took a dive. Then went back up to 35 when their Taiwanese subsidiary opened. Then took another dive after that.
> 
> Cree stock took a dive yesterday. At $24 a share. Cree stock doesn't have any dividend pay outs either.


I think that's why he's encouraging people to buy Cree chips- because he knows his company needs the boost?

I still think it's a good long term investment.


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## nk14zp (Oct 21, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> he meant three 15 watt CFL's but anyways threads like these is getting old as some call it Burple chips haha do grow plants so does CFL's T5 Ho's HID , Plasma, and CMH did i forget something oh yeah Cobblins its that time of the month lol well soon Abracadabra..
> I think for a new grower coming into growing it is a better option to go T5 Ho and Hid get couple completed grows then decide if you like this hobby or not due to success.. then only then decide to up grade would suck spending big money on a lighting system that will eventually live out its remainding life in a junk shed ..
> A new grower should have a plan like this
> Ok i will run 1 k or 2 K Hid for couple grows this will guarntee you results if you got a green thumb take proceeds from them 2 grows mind you 2 grows with right strain and proper enviroment will land you 8 - 12 pounds 4 min per 2 k run keep 4 pounds as personal lol mind you that is 6 months more or less 2 grows with decent veg time to get a yield
> Then take the other 4 - 5 pound proceeds and decide where you want to upgrade or if not then where you want to go for a HOLIDAY hahaha


Sort of how I'm doing it. Started growing with cfls.(had to see if I had any form of a green thumb) Then got a 400w hps/mh light for the flower room. Then got a 430hps witch will go in the new flower room when finished and then put the 400 with a mh bulb in the new veg room. Also got some cob leds to play around with. But for good grows that are plug and play I think it's hard to beat hid lighting.


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## ttystikk (Oct 21, 2015)

nk14zp said:


> Sort of how I'm doing it. Started growing with cfls.(had to see if I had any form of a green thumb) Then got a 400w hps/mh light for the flower room. Then got a 430hps witch will go in the new flower room when finished and then put the 400 with a mh bulb in the new veg room. Also got some cob leds to play around with. But for good grows that are plug and play I think it's hard to beat hid lighting.


I predict that growing under COB LED will be even easier and will soon be the go-to lighting option, even for noobs.

The tech is alllllllmost there...


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 21, 2015)

Bottom line most people will go with the sure winner truly speaking i men you get quality and YIELD with HID mix HID and CMH and look the fuck out mix HID , CMH and plasma holy fucking christ yeah think
Everyone is screaming about efficency , and with that less heat ,, bottom line with all lighting every god dam one of them your going to need exhaust
stick a 600 watt cob unit into a 4 x 4 tent and see what happens with out an exhaust
Anything electronic will produce heat .. end of story
I am curious ttytsk are you using Cob presently ??
whats the cost going to be to change out or do a room 15 x 20 ??? 300 Sq feet 
12,000 watt Hid room
cost me 1800 bucks or 12,000 watts @ 2.5 - 3 pounds per 25 Sq foot or under 1 k
What's cob cost 10,000 or more ??? what about LED what would that come around to 20,000 to be compatible but make less yield , Probably ???? Remember environment , and strain, and nutrients dictates quality..
You have any links to some Cob tree grows or anyone pulling 3 pounds under 1 of them i mean tree grows
Everyone talks Efficiency and cost savings like there running some tight ship lol ,, or some corporation trying to shave costs Guess what most of the growers on this site or any other, Are hardy being consistent in there yields .. So WTF at the end of the day everyones goal is to grow there plant as fast as possible and get the biggest yields ..
We see it all the time the HID killer yet is it really the hid killer i mean we can scour the net and see LED and COB are growing and yielding but are they actually beating out HID and statistic's show that there behind in the yield end close but behind and that is comparing them to 400 watters god forbid you put them up againt THE REAL BAD AZZ 1200 WATT DE cause i guarntee you the DE will destroy a cob in growth rates and yield 
but i really want to see comparison yields same strain same enviroment etc etc and put a end to this cob, led Hid killers 
Cause if you think you did good saving 200 bucks on power ??? yet came couple pounds shy in harvest for the difference your going to go out of business


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I think that's why he's encouraging people to buy Cree chips- because he knows his company needs the boost?
> 
> I still think it's a good long term investment.


buy low and hope she goes high tech is a tricky market not a good one to go into


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 21, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Bottom line most people will go with the sure winner truly speaking i men you get quality and YIELD with HID mix HID and CMH and look the fuck out mix HID , CMH and plasma holy fucking christ yeah think
> Everyone is screaming about efficency , and with that less heat ,, bottom line with all lighting every god dam one of them your going to need exhaust
> stick a 600 watt cob unit into a 4 x 4 tent and see what happens with out an exhaust
> Anything electronic will produce heat .. end of story
> ...


You've made so many false assumptions about me and my approach that I find myself unwilling to respond at all. What's worse is that you've done it before and I did explain- and you either forgot, ignored or didn't believe me. So wait with everyone else for the thread.


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 21, 2015)

TSik i am not gunning after you and truthfully speaking people should not believe much on sites like this lots of BS be spewed around ..
LED , Cob is just another fucking light nothing special not one fucking bit about them NOTHING
here week 8 cob how many watt is this unit ??? I am now waiting for my 8 CXB3590 3000k, 185/C700A MW drivers, How many watts lol thats a hid killer with out a doubt you think here T5 HO 432 watts guess how many pounds you like the s in pounds


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## a mongo frog (Oct 21, 2015)

hyroot said:


> That's not how stocks work.
> 
> If you own 455 shares in cree you must be hurting. The stock has been down for the past year. Last year it was $60 a share. Then they took a dive. Then went back up to 35 when their Taiwanese subsidiary opened. Then took another dive after that.
> 
> Cree stock took a dive yesterday. At $24 a share. Cree stock doesn't have any dividend pay outs either.


This guy says I must be hurting. It takes a real ass hole to say shit like that. Leave it to a broke fucker to say shit like this. If your broke be humble about your shit. Please. If that doesn't work step up your gardening game. Lay off the rosin let your brain heel and do a bang up job and on an og. You don't have the balls to hit the stock market like some. Just to let everyone know, Cree inc. will be at 40 per share by this time next year. @hyroot go buy some crees and build a lamp, quite ridding everyones jock with your shit plants. And quit doing that ground cover with those other plants in your soil. Shit aint working. Happy gardening bro!!!!!


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## hyroot (Oct 21, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> This guy says I must be hurting. It takes a real ass hole to say shit like that. Leave it to a broke fucker to say shit like this. If your broke be humble about your shit. Please. If that doesn't work step up your gardening game. Lay off the rosin let your brain heel and do a bang up job and on an og. You don't have the balls to hit the stock market like some. Just to let everyone know, Cree inc. will be at 40 per share by this time next year. @hyroot go buy some crees and build a lamp, quite ridding everyones jock with your shit plants. And quit doing that ground cover with those other plants in your soil. Shit aint working. Happy gardening bro!!!!!



Did I hurt your feelings. Did the truth hurt.. Did you have to file for bankruptcy after your loss. Obviously you don't have any shares in cree. Or even do any stock investing or you wouldn't have made such an asinine comment.

Yes if you actually did own that much in cree stock you would be hurting some what. That would have been a loss of $17,000. No possible way you can predict where the stock will be in a year. Sales has no bearing on stock price.

Keep on hating on me. It just shows I'm doing something right.

BTW I started buying shares of stock in the early 90's with Disney being my first stock. I have shares of disney, Microsoft, apple , and nissan and a few medical reasearch companies. I used to have shares in playboy. Sold that recently. I never bought cree they mostly drop. Barley ever go up. They don't have dividend pay outs.

Nissan was my most recent purchase. I bought that when Sebastian Vettle left infiniti redbull for ferrrari. Vettle was also the chief engineer of design and performance for infiniti nissan aside from racing for infiniti redbull. When he left, infiniti / nissan sued Vettle so he wouldn't leave with his designs. Vettle won. Took his designs to Ferrari. I knew then nissan stock would drop. And it did. Tremendously too. Then I bought several shares. 3 months later it tripled.

So unless you know some shit like that about cree. And actuallly research theyre doings then you would make money. I doubt cree will go up. Cree just had a major recall of thousands of lights and paying off law suits from fires started by those same led t8 lights. So their stock will continue to drop.


The cover crops provide nitrogen, mycorrizhae and other fungi and bacteria. Improves cec. Take your head out of your ass you hater.


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## a mongo frog (Oct 21, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Did I hurt your feelings. Did the truth hurt.. Did you have to file for bankruptcy after your loss. Obviously you don't have any shares in cree. Or even do any stock investing or you wouldn't have made such an asinine comment.
> 
> Yes of you actually did own that much in cree atock you would be hurting some what. That would have been a loss of $17,000. No possible way you can predict where the stock will be in a year. Sales has no bearing on stock price.
> 
> Keep on hating on me. It just shows I'm doing something right.


You have no idea what your talking about. All you do is run your mouth. How could you actually say a 17,000 dollar loss. Think about what you just said. Really think about. You are not doing anything right. For you to say i don't own cree stock means your lost bro. Something could be tattooed on your forehead from this site and you wouldn't learn a thing. Gardeners like yourself will get no better then you are right now. Your lost in your own garden bro. Please stop trying to be the "guy" bro. Its embarrassing watching you work.


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 21, 2015)

problem with shares is if a company opens a secondary share happens is everything get diluted,, While an absolute increase in a company's net income is a welcome sight, investors should be focusing on what each share of their investment is producing. An increase in a company's capital base dilutes the company's earnings because they are spread among a greater number of shareholders/ holders but with secondary share in place .. you can guarntee that shares that my drop will in fact bounce back hard one just has to stay on top right now Mongo shoes in te negative but with the craze on cree 1 - 2 years from now is when he should cash out . and that is where the money will be


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## hyroot (Oct 21, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> You have no idea what your talking about. All you do is run your mouth. How could you actually say a 17,000 dollar loss. Think about what you just said. Really think about. You are not doing anything right. For you to say i don't own cree stock means your lost bro. Something could be tattooed on your forehead from this site and you wouldn't learn a thing. Gardeners like yourself will get no better then you are right now. Your lost in your own garden bro. Please stop trying to be the "guy" bro. Its embarrassing watching you work.



455 shares at $60 now at $23 . And they haven't split. The math isn't that hard.

Don't be mad you got called out on bullshit and you now look like a fool as usual. Keep hating. I'm doing something right


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## a mongo frog (Oct 21, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> problem with shares is if a company opens a secondary share happens is everything get diluted,, While an absolute increase in a company's net income is a welcome sight, investors should be focusing on what each share of their investment is producing. An increase in a company's capital base dilutes the company's earnings because they are spread among a greater number of shareholders/ holders but with secondary share in place .. you can guarntee that shares that my drop will in fact bounce back hard one just has to stay on top right now Mongo shoes in te negative but with the craze on cree 1 - 2 years from now is when he should cash out . and that is where the money will be


@hyroot doesn't know anything about that. Dudes never had the balls to drop his nuts and live the way he wants to.


----------



## a mongo frog (Oct 21, 2015)

hyroot said:


> 455 shares at $60 now at $23 . And they haven't split. The math isn't that hard.


Who bought a 63? Your the biggest joke around these parts bro. You yourself brought up the figure 63. No one else.


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## hyroot (Oct 21, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Who bought a 63? Your the biggest joke around these parts bro. You yourself brought up the figure 63. No one else.



Keep hating. BTW you might need a ladder for that hole you dug yourself into.


----------



## a mongo frog (Oct 21, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Keep hating. BTW you might need a ladder for that hole you dug yourself into.


Stop being an internet tuff guy. Don't make threats on people like that.


----------



## Darth Vapour (Oct 21, 2015)

Cree, Inc. (Nasdaq: CREE), a market leader in LED lighting, today announced revenue of $425.5 million for its first quarter of fiscal 2016, ended September 27, 2015. This represents a 1% decrease compared to revenue of $427.7 million reported for the first quarter of fiscal 2015, and an 11% increase compared to the fourth quarter of fiscal 2015. GAAP net loss for the first quarter was $23.6 million, or $0.23 per diluted share, compared to GAAP net income of $11.1 million, or $0.09 per diluted share, for the first quarter of fiscal 2015. On a non-GAAP basis, net income for the first quarter of fiscal 2016 was $22.1 million, or $0.21 per diluted share, compared to non-GAAP net income for the first quarter of fiscal 2015 of $29.6 million, or $0.24 per diluted share. During the first quarter of fiscal 2016, Cree recognized $15.9 million of costs related to the LED business restructuring that was announced on June 24, 2015. The restructuring charges included factory capacity and overhead cost reductions which are included in the GAAP results only.

"Fiscal 2016 is off to a good start, with Q1 revenue and profits above the middle of our targeted range, driven by strong demand for commercial LED lighting and a solid quarter for our LED business,” stated Chuck Swoboda, Cree Chairman and CEO. “We’re confident in our strategy and optimistic about the future, as the commercial lighting business is growing, the LED results recovered nicely in Q1 and Power and RF design momentum is strong.”


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Oct 22, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Stuff and things rant rant rant


No. There's just so many inaccuracies here I don't feel like bothering, but about half of what you're saying is just false. COBs are expensive, making light with electricity or anything else generates heat. Everything else you're saying is conjecture.



Darth Vapour said:


> buy low and hope she goes high tech is a tricky market not a good one to go into


There are long-term and short-term strategies, playing the long game with Cree might be smart, the shorter game I don't think is a good idea. Making blanket-statements (generalizations) is your jam, isn't it? I'm a little disappointed. Occasionally I think the war of rhetoric between HID and LED folk is mellowing out, then I see yesterday's posts on RIU, and I join the fray. I don't have the same goals as you folks out to make a buck. I love the plant, I grow for myself, I have to do it stealth-style. I'm not looking for fast turnaround or maxing out yield, but if I was, and growing at a small to medium scale, I'd still be all over the COBs.

"Email is just a fad, it will never replace a handwritten letter." - you, 1995, probably.


----------



## hyroot (Oct 22, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Stop being an internet tuff guy. Don't make threats on people like that.



How is that a threat? You have serious reading comprehension issues. Every post you attack me and insult me. You even jump in on my thread from time to time to attack me on a subject thats being discussed among me and others. you obviously have no clue about it when you try to attack. 

How am I being an Internet tough guy? By stating facts instead of b s. Like you. And telling you to continue hating on me because it shows how well I'm doing and how jealous you are. 

If anyone is trying to be an Internet tough guy , it would be you. If you reread your past few posts you are the one who is attacking. I just called you out on bullshit on lies that's all. Then you attacked me over and over.


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## BM9AGS (Oct 22, 2015)

You're bulling him with the truth. He can't handle the truth.


----------



## adower (Oct 22, 2015)

LEDs are cool. However I don't think they can hang with gavita hps. People are pulling 3lb per light with them.


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 22, 2015)

I look at it this way although 600 watts hid are more efficient watt per watt then a 1000 they do not come close to same yields as 1000's watt gives hahaha everyone is screaming efficiency, Everyone thinks Hid is dead ended one must remember there spending a shit more on research and development then all of LED and cree companies put together and why cause there sales are up one would think they been around the block a lot longer .. an trust me as tech gets better i wouldn't think DE is the end of the line or HID's you be wrong to say the same 
I am not here to bash LED or Cob matter of fact i plan on ordering some LED's and give it a go ( not expecting much if anything they will be a good supplemental light inbetween Nano's )
We all know the LED's and Cobs grow an we sure in the hell know that CMH , Hid and plasma grow as well.
When you break it all down even for the small time grower getting into it 700 - 1000 for a real good COB or LED unit is to much 
3/4's of growers can not even keep a plant healthy to complete its full cycle let alone worry about lighting its ironic how everyone tends to scream efficiency when in there drive way there a motor home , couple SUV's lol but worried about electrical costs ..
Everyone tends to think cause Hid produces heat that its so in efficient, wht bout this with fresh air coming in @ - 30 temps in winter my fan only kicks in 2 times in 18 hrs i got it dialed in perfect or i pump the hot air in room to heat up other rooms is this not being efficient, there many ways a grower can go for many heat is a good thing for instance my room lights out hits 50 degrees C thats cold there fore heaters are needed and with heaters comes Dehuey, and humidifiers etc etc etc know one has ever said growing weed is cheap , matter of fact its costly 
growers today are like social media jumping on every band wagon idea or cult seriously for me high temps is needed for every 5 - 10 degree rise in temps the plants metabolic rate increases what does this mean FAST GROWTH 
What makes the plant really tic ?? i know C02 and whats the right temps to keep stomata open ??? higher temps 
So where are we at here ??? 
Again people forgetting basics of plant needs and going after light spectrum and efficiency, You can have the best lights and spectrum known to man and still grow like shit if your not getting 3 - 4 " of growth daily your your missing something 
for instance here 100 days @ 3" + of growth a day giving me 11.5 feet tall by 11.5 wide plant just a example ..
Thing to ask is are cob and LED getting that growth ??? same thing should apply indoor 2 - 4 " of growth a day with everything dialed in  if your not getting that then something is not dialed in
HOTTER temps is needed for fast growth end of story 
another one this is not my grow but 5 week veg 
Are we seeing this type of grows with LED or Cob ?? i do not see it scouring the net and tube 
What i see is extremely small plants grown and flipped to flower And most importantly sure everyone shows the cob or led graphs showing efficiency
But look for true unbiased PAR tests cob vs DE then which i cannot seem to find on the tube 
And still waiting or a 5 week vegged Cob or LED grow that plants look like this cause again i cannot seem to find any most of there grows like i said are 12 " plants flipped lol not 5 footer plants with nice buds growing right on bottom of the plant


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 23, 2015)

adower said:


> LEDs are cool. However I don't think they can hang with gavita hps. People are pulling 3lb per light with them.


With 1000W of COB I am sure I could pull over 3lb without even paying attention. Are you saying a single-ended 1000W, or a DE?


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Oct 23, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> high temps is needed for every 5 - 10 degree rise in temps the plants metabolic rate increases what does this mean FAST GROWTH
> What makes the plant really tic ?? i know C02 and whats the right temps to keep stomata open ??? higher temps
> So where are we at here ???
> Again people forgetting basics of plant needs and going after light spectrum and efficiency, You can have the best lights and spectrum known to man and still grow like shit if your not getting 3 - 4 " of growth daily your your missing something
> ...





Darth Vapour said:


> Everyone is screaming about efficency , and with that less heat ,, bottom line with all lighting every god dam one of them your going to need exhaust
> stick a 600 watt cob unit into a 4 x 4 tent and see what happens with out an exhaust
> Anything electronic will produce heat .. end of story


Efficiency isn't necessarily about saving electrical costs. Yes COB gets that kind of growth. Go check out @REALSTYLES @Growmau5 @SupraSPL and @Greengenes707 COB grows on Youtube and their threads here. Never mind, I know you won't. Soon we will be at a point that COB fixtures won't necessarily need outside venting or a fortune in HVAC to keep inside that magical 77-85f temperature range, given favorable conditions in the surrounding space. When I read your posts I see you talking out both sides of your mouth, first saying COB will be too hot, then saying hotter temps are needed for optimal growth. Honestly, I think you just like to read your own posts, which is mysterious to me since you're a shitty writer. Say "Bottom line" or "End of story" again...yeesh.


----------



## genuity (Oct 23, 2015)

I know I just pulled down 2 1/2 # from my 1000 watt DE....first time also.
5x6 canopy,11 plants in 3 gal pots.

How much will a 1000 watt of cob cost? To cover that same 5x6..


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 23, 2015)

genuity said:


> I know I just pulled down 2 1/2 # from my 1000 watt DE....first time also.
> 5x6 canopy,11 plants in 3 gal pots.
> 
> How much will a 1000 watt of cob cost? To cover that same 5x6..


It will cost me about a grand to cover 4x4 but I'll run less than half the wattage, and they will run for years and years. I am sure to pull 2lb from that without much trouble. No one said they were cheap. Yet. Time and data will prove all this stuff. 1000W of efficiently-powered COB would cost around $2k and you could cover 4x8 without issue, you could rock 4x12 with 1200W


----------



## genuity (Oct 23, 2015)

I'm not worried about running something for years upon years....I run my hps bulbs for 18 months, befor I think about changing them..

So how much to cover a 5x6,and still get 2 1/2# ....plug & play setup.


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 23, 2015)

genuity said:


> I'm not worried about running something for years upon years....I run my hps bulbs for 18 months, befor I think about changing them..
> 
> So how much to cover a 5x6,and still get 2 1/2# ....plug & play setup.


5x6 is 30 sq foot, so about $800-1000 to get everything depending if you need tap and die and a drill press or if you own them already. I'll bet no AC would be needed, just venting to an external space or outside.


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## genuity (Oct 23, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> 5x6 is 30 sq foot, so about $800-1000 to get everything depending if you need tap and die and a drill press or if you own them already. I'll bet no AC would be needed, just venting to an external space or outside.


I don't use actually now...2 regular hps 1000watt & 1 DE 1000watt. Just exhaust fan.

All of that in a open room,do the cobs need to be in a more confined space?


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 23, 2015)

genuity said:


> I don't use actually now...2 regular hps 1000watt & 1 DE 1000watt. Just exhaust fan.
> 
> All of that in a open room,do the cobs need to be in a more confined space?


Not as far as I understand it. I have designed my lights but I haven't built them, shooting for January 2016 due to prior commitments. Anything I say about this is based on evidence from that list of growers I posted when I bitched out Darth Vapour  They are amassing some good information, in between arguing about this with the Gavita-lovers, haha.


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## hyroot (Oct 23, 2015)

No lights at all need to be in a confined space. Light is light. If you don't have enough coverage , add more light. 

It's about 12 cxb 3070 , vero 29 or 8-9 cxb 3590 per 4x4. To match a 1000w basically around 650-700w of cobs.

I'm modifying one of my lights to replace some cxa's with some cxb 3070's. Soon more cobs to come.


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## genuity (Oct 23, 2015)

Any GG lights up for sale anyplace?
I'm all about plugNPlay setups,and his look damn fine.


----------



## Growmau5 (Oct 23, 2015)

> same thing should apply indoor 2 - 4 " of growth a day with everything dialed in


inches of growth per day is a great metric to use if you are growing lumber. i prefer to grow buds


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## adower (Oct 23, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> With 1000W of COB I am sure I could pull over 3lb without even paying attention. Are you saying a single-ended 1000W, or a DE?


Gravitas are double ended. Are there even any 1000w cob fixtures? If so could they even match the 450$ price point?


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## a mongo frog (Oct 23, 2015)

BM9AGS said:


> You're bulling him with the truth. He can't handle the truth.


What truth bro? So you think I'm lying about Cree stock or you think Crees a bad investment? Just trust me on the stock being around 40 this time nest year. Please don't listen to your boy about this stuff. Ive made a few good buys over the years. And yes some not so good ones. But its a game i like to fuck around with. Heres the last 2 days of cree. @hyroot has no idea what i bought the stock for, he's just sandbagging me calling me a liar about not owning cree stock. I shouldn't of said that stuff about his garden, i know that. My bad. Just sounded cocky the way he came off in that post thats all.


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## Growmau5 (Oct 23, 2015)

I am a Cree INC stockholder as well. I am a little bit concerned about the stock's future due to the separation of their Power & RF into a separate entity called Wolfspeed. It could be an exciting IPO to get into, but I don't what that does to the parent company. Taking revenue generating technology out of Cree INC and moving it to a new company. ?


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## churchhaze (Oct 25, 2015)

genuity said:


> I'm not worried about running something for years upon years....I run my hps bulbs for 18 months, befor I think about changing them..
> 
> So how much to cover a 5x6,and still get 2 1/2# ....plug & play setup.


1000W of DIY cxb driven to be 50% efficient would be a good amount of light for a 5'x6'. That would be 500W of PAR (50% efficiency) over 30sqft, so 16.667W/sqft PAR so you'd be able to flower 3-4 foot plants.

I'm still not sure if it's worth upgrading from HPS for you yet, but it's good to have options on the table. I yielded over 300g on my last C99 grow from a 193W lamp in a 8sqft. If you scaled that up by 4x, that would be 1200g (2.679lb) from a 772W lamp in 32sqft.


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## hyroot (Oct 25, 2015)

On the subject of stocks. Ferrari went public on Wed. Opened at $60 a share. 

I'm a huge ferrari fan / formula one fan. Ever since my dad had a yellow 1981 308 GTS (magnum pi) when I was a little kid.


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## chuck estevez (Oct 25, 2015)

when I read what L.e.d growers write about their lights, It's sounds like as if a buddy is trying to explain to me how great a smart car is.


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## a mongo frog (Oct 25, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> when I read what L.e.d growers write about their lights, It's sounds like as if a buddy is trying to explain to me how great a smart car is.


Whats a smart car?


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## chuck estevez (Oct 25, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Whats a smart car?


everyone will be driving one in 5 yrs,lol


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## chuck estevez (Oct 25, 2015)

But, it's way more efficient than that cool ass camaro you're driving.


sound familiar,lol


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## Joe Blows Trees (Oct 25, 2015)

Leds may work, but I chose HPS since it's been proven to work and commercial grower's use em though I may try leds when they're used more widely with results from professional growers who aren't paid to say they work as well or better than HPS.


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 25, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> when I read what L.e.d growers write about their lights, It's sounds like as if a buddy is trying to explain to me how great a smart car is.





chuck estevez said:


> But, it's way more efficient than that cool ass camaro you're driving.
> 
> 
> sound familiar,lol


*It is more like this:
Nice Camaro dude,
 

Check what I got yesterday;

 *


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## chuck estevez (Oct 25, 2015)

^^^ if only a L.E.D that worked like that car could be bought from a dealer, but we all know it would be the same price as that car.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 25, 2015)

churchhaze said:


> 1000W of DIY cxb driven to be 50% efficiency would be a good amount of light for a 5'x6'. That would be 500W of PAR (50% efficiency) over 30sqft, so 16.667W/sqft PAR so you'd be able to flower 3-4 foot plants.
> 
> I'm still not sure if it's worth upgrading from HPS for you yet, but it's good to have options on the table. I yielded over 300g on my last C99 grow from a 193W lamp in a 8sqft. If you scaled that up by 4x, that would be 1200g (2.679lb) from a 772W lamp in 32sqft.


what light are you using? what led would you recommend to a person who can not diy? i am currently running testing on ceramic discharge vs hps/mh so far it looks like the ceramics are more efficient in terms of yield per watt. if i can find a decently,, not over priced led to cover a 4ftx6ft table i would really like to ad it to my test..,
i have only run 2 315 watt cmh once,(but i now understand how the plants respond to cmh so further runs will only get better) im currently about to start my second run under 3 315 watt cmh 945 watt total over the 4x6 table, next run will be under a 1k hps, 
i think a reliable testing of led is well overdue. or a non biased test.. i keep everything exept lighting the same so that results are true,non negotiable..
my first try with cmh yielded 800 grams dry trimmed n weighed off only 630 watts, i plan to re do that run in the future with a longer veg period as plants do not stretch nearly as much as they do under hps or hps/mh.. had i vegged longer i believe i could have yielded 900-1,000 grams but we will see.?
i wish i could rent a good led as i already have so many unused lamps, or buy one and return it after 8 weeks if it does not yield like hps or cmh..please give me a list of led options you believe will cover the area.. i also wonder if multiple led's rather than 1 large led will get a better yield per watt, as ive found with hps/mh running 2 600's or 3 400's seem to yield better than a 1k over the same area as you can place them closer to the canopy..my real goal is to find the best yield per watt lamp as my electric bills wer truly outrageous.. i can say that going from 2 600 watt hps to 2 cmh cut my bill in half and yield was very reasonable considering the drop from 1200-630 watts..


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Oct 25, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> ^^^ if only a L.E.D that worked like that car could be bought from a dealer, but we all know it would be the same price as that car.


That car can't be bought at a dealership that I know of, I think it is a somewhat accurate analogy.


----------



## Michael Huntherz (Oct 25, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> what light are you using? what led would you recommend to a person who can not diy? i am currently running testing on ceramic discharge vs hps/mh so far it looks like the ceramics are more efficient in terms of yield per watt. if i can find a decently,, not over priced led to cover a 4ftx6ft table i would really like to ad it to my test..,
> i have only run 2 315 watt cmh once,(but i now understand how the plants respond to cmh so further runs will only get better) im currently about to start my second run under 3 315 watt cmh 945 watt total over the 4x6 table, next run will be under a 1k hps,
> i think a reliable testing of led is well overdue. or a non biased test.. i keep everything exept lighting the same so that results are true,non negotiable..
> my first try with cmh yielded 800 grams dry trimmed n weighed off only 630 watts, i plan to re do that run in the future with a longer veg period as plants do not stretch nearly as much as they do under hps or hps/mh.. had i vegged longer i believe i could have yielded 900-1,000 grams but we will see.?
> i wish i could rent a good led as i already have so many unused lamps, or buy one and return it after 8 weeks if it does not yield like hps or cmh..please give me a list of led options you believe will cover the area.. i also wonder if multiple led's rather than 1 large led will get a better yield per watt, as ive found with hps/mh running 2 600's or 3 400's seem to yield better than a 1k over the same area as you can place them closer to the canopy..my real goal is to find the best yield per watt lamp as my electric bills wer truly outrageous.. i can say that going from 2 600 watt hps to 2 cmh cut my bill in half and yield was very reasonable considering the drop from 1200-630 watts..


If you can't DIY right now stick with the CMH, forilla.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 25, 2015)

if interested in my test check out,,,

https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-315-watt-cdl-grow.880895/page-1


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 26, 2015)

Michael Huntherz said:


> 5x6 is 30 sq foot, so about $800-1000 to get everything depending if you need tap and die and a drill press or if you own them already. I'll bet no AC would be needed, just venting to an external space or outside.


 lol wow really i do not use AC never have EVER even in 6 k rooms HID NEVER so lets be safe to say what 1000 bucks to make 1000 watt cob you know shipping odds n ends etc lol let me see here i can purchase brand new 1000 hids Mag ballasts hood and bulb for 150 bucks holy shit that just gave me 6000 watts for the price of one cob 1000 watt equivalent were not even in the same fucking league if you break it down to a science that is 
you mention look at Realstyles grow trust me i have lol and what shitty grow small buds and most importantly small plants and again small stalks with heat issues haha kind of ironic really when that is the selling point of cob so much cooler , but hey RS is a grow god do you not know him ?? he is the guy that talks like a fruitcake and grows in a fucking tent you know when you really look at his video's and he grabs some buds there the size of your fucking thumb and he goes around other sites pretending that he is a diy god of cob taking green genes , spl and who ever elses hard work and sluffing it off as he was the one that teached them lol i am a grow god just ask SPL lol WTF


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## testiclees (Oct 26, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> lol wow really i do not use AC never have EVER even in 6 k rooms HID NEVER so lets be safe to say what 1000 bucks to make 1000 watt cob you know shipping odds n ends etc lol let me see here i can purchase brand new 1000 hids Mag ballasts hood and bulb for 150 bucks holy shit that just gave me 6000 watts for the price of one cob 1000 watt equivalent were not even in the same fucking league if you break it down to a science that is
> you mention look at Realstyles grow trust me i have lol and what shitty grow small buds and most importantly small plants and again small stalks with heat issues haha kind of ironic really when that is the selling point of cob so much cooler , but hey RS is a grow god do you not know him ?? he is the guy that talks like a fruitcake and grows in a fucking tent you know when you really look at his video's and he grabs some buds there the size of your fucking thumb and he goes around other sites pretending that he is a diy god of cob taking green genes , spl and who ever elses hard work and sluffing it off as he was the one that teached them lol i am a grow god just ask SPL lol WTF



You posts are loadedwith foulest, juvenile, idiot shit. 

Your obsession with fruitcakes gives away your permanently flaccid existence.


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 26, 2015)

awe you herd RS talk kinda like nose plugged or ass plug you think ??? shit he even took out voice in his Tube videos lol


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 26, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> awe you herd RS talk kinda like nose plugged or ass plug you think ??? shit he even took out voice in his Tube videos lol


Do you have a youtube channel @Darth Vapour?


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 26, 2015)

No sir maybe once it becomes legal here in canada i probably will until then one must grow undercover ,, who knows maybe do green house grows one its legal and instead of 1 - 5 plant tree grows maybe 100 - 200 tree grows 
But what does having a Tube channel got to do with growing weed is it to make your self look better or try to sell something ? lol
i mean really shit go search Dr Fever on this site if you still can that was my other name i have some pretty big grows journals i was doing on this site well before the legaliztion of MJ in USA many people will in fact back me up and yes did stupid illegal grows you know them ones with over 700 plants in all stages 700 clones and in all stages 
But today from the legalization you got the crawling out of ever rock now huh 
spineless really no balls to be known when it was illegal but now Guru's when its legal rings hollow
have played with more soil then most growers will in a life time let alone probably thrown away more clones then most will ever grow ,, you know when you get approched to make 300,000 clones for 200,000 dollars brings anyone into a new league all together .. 
even thou i passed on it still was offered to .. but then again these people will bury you and your family in a second if something went south so again big money lure or breathing which would you choose


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## testiclees (Oct 26, 2015)

"spineless" seriously? you fucking weasel

~~~~~~~~~

This doesnt have to do with lighting but it does highlight* the idiot that is DV*

*Darth Vapour said: ↑

Fem seeds are for NOOBS that couldn't tell a male sack from a crack lol

*

Witless jackass.
testiclees, Oct 7, 2015 Report

Alexander Supertramp, Smkweeed, churchhaze and 6 others like this.


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 26, 2015)

lets look here from someone green behind the EARS check this out Micheal from july 2015 to now your a GURU grower you no your shit man 
Yo testicle i will get to you in a second hold on there 

https://www.rollitup.org/t/hello-newb-here-cloning-experiment.876256/


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 26, 2015)

testiclees said:


> "spineless" seriously? you fucking weasel
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~
> 
> ...


 Dam they are coming stupid by the year your right testicle only a witless jack ass would believe this is 22 oz of weed lmao is that 22 oz including root system ?? or stems ???

https://www.rollitup.org/t/harvest-pictures-grown-under-2-cxa3070s.886228/


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 26, 2015)

Yo testicle you want to know what 22 oz's looks like real world not fairy tale Land here one screen square half of this door screen is anywhere from 18 - 22 oz dry 3 times more then that picture above lol who is weasel now 
See i got nothing to prove here but it appears COB does Hids prove them selfs over n over n over shit look at this grow lol old bulbs used 2 year old grown bulb still kicked ass so please keep growing with your what ???? 150 watt panels and keep talking like your a grower dude seriously in the gaming world you be called a SCRUB but hey in the growing world lets just say you been schooled


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## hyroot (Oct 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Whats a smart car?



Those little piece of shit 2 seaters with a 1.5 liter engine. Made by mercedes. That can't handle a basic turn.above 20 MPH and climb hills. They're popular in europe. Years ago when I worked from a reprographics company, my boss had one.

The only thing smart about them is their fuel efficiency. They have a very small gas tank.




They're no where as smart as prius or a tesla lol


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## hyroot (Oct 26, 2015)

genuity said:


> Any GG lights up for sale anyplace?
> I'm all about plugNPlay setups,and his look damn fine.



Pacific light concepts


----------



## Darth Vapour (Oct 26, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Those little piece of shit 2 seaters with a 1.5 liter engine. Made by mercedes. That can't handle a basic turn.above 20 MPH and climb hills. They're popular in europe. Years ago when I worked from a reprographics company, my boss had one.
> 
> The only thing smart about them is their fuel efficiency. They have a very small gas tank.
> 
> ...


But you know what there among the safest designed cars on the road i cannot find pictures had one of these smart cars under m lifted truck lol it look funny as hell


----------



## a mongo frog (Oct 26, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Those little piece of shit 2 seaters with a 1.5 liter engine. Made by mercedes. That can't handle a basic turn.above 20 MPH and climb hills. They're popular in europe. Years ago when I worked from a reprographics company, my boss had one.
> 
> The only thing smart about them is their fuel efficiency. They have a very small gas tank.
> 
> ...


They don't look very safe. I have a car. Not sure if its considered a smart car. But you do plug it in. And it also has a gas tank. Actually we've only put 18 dollars of fuel in it in the 6 months we have owned it.


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## hyroot (Oct 26, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> But you know what there among the safest designed cars on the road i cannot find pictures had one of these smart cars under m lifted truck lol it look funny as hell


No they're not. They flip over easier than suzuki sidekick. They would be crushed like a a soda can in an accident. 

The safest cars are Volvo, Saab, and Mercedes. Each of those you won't even feel it if you blow out a tire. Yes I have experienced that in a Volvo s60 and a mercedes e 350. One time driving back from AZ and another driving back from Vegas.


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## hyroot (Oct 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> They don't look very safe. I have a car. Not sure if its considered a smart car. But you do plug it in. And it also has a gas tank. Actually we've only put 18 dollars of fuel in it in the 6 months we have owned it.



Is that the e prius or the volt?


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## Michael Huntherz (Oct 26, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> lets look here from someone green behind the EARS check this out Micheal from july 2015 to now your a GURU grower you no your shit man
> Yo testicle i will get to you in a second hold on there
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/hello-newb-here-cloning-experiment.876256/


You dissed RS for his youtube videos, and then talk about how a youtube channel doesn't matter. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth again.

I never claimed to be anything I'm not. But I am smart, and that counts for something. I'm also kind, which means I'll end up with more allies than you will, because you're not a very nice person.

If I'm "_*green behind the ears*_" then you're "_*wet with envy*_."
OK, Ricky, I'm going to go ahead and ignore you now.


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## a mongo frog (Oct 26, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Is that the e prius or the volt?


Its the volt. We really really like it. Obviously we would of preferred the Tesla, but well you know.........


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## hyroot (Oct 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Its the volt. We really really like it. Obviously we would of preferred the Tesla, but well you know.........



Nice. Tesla is releasing 2 models in 2016 and 2017 that are in the 30-40k range and the 50-60k range.


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## a mongo frog (Oct 26, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Nice. Tesla is releasing 2 models in 2016 and 2017 that are in the 30-40k range and the 50-60k range.


Thats cheaper then i thought they were. For some reason i thought Teslas were in the 70-80 range.


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## testiclees (Oct 26, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Yo testicle you want to know what 22 oz's looks like real world not fairy tale Land here one screen square half of this door screen is anywhere from 18 - 22 oz dry 3 times more then that picture above lol who is weasel now
> See i got nothing to prove here but it appears COB does Hids prove them selfs over n over n over shit look at this grow lol old bulbs used 2 year old grown bulb still kicked ass so please keep growing with your what ???? 150 watt panels and keep talking like your a grower dude seriously in the gaming world you be called a SCRUB but hey in the growing world lets just say you been schooled View attachment 3529381
> View attachment 3529383


bro i know you can grow...i dont doubt it at all


doesnt change the fact your mind is a juvenile wasteland of ignorance, paranoia and plain bull shit


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## a mongo frog (Oct 26, 2015)

testiclees said:


> bro i know you can grow...i dont doubt it at all
> 
> 
> doesnt change the fact your mind is a juvenile wasteland of ignorance, paranoia and plain bull shit


His info is golden i believe. Maybe he gets mad and he hates America, but I'm trying to see past that. Mainly cuz I'm American.....


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## testiclees (Oct 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> His info is golden i believe. Maybe he gets mad and he hates America, but I'm trying to see past that. Mainly cuz I'm American.....


The main thing I see is a bigoted nit wit that is good at growing weed.


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## a mongo frog (Oct 26, 2015)

testiclees said:


> The main thing I see is a bigoted nit wit that is good at growing weed.


Oh, i thought we were talking about only growing weed.


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## hyroot (Oct 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Thats cheaper then i thought they were. For some reason i thought Teslas were in the 70-80 range.



The ones out now are that price. The ones I mentioned are lower tier models that are coming soon. Same class as lexus, infiniti, mercedes e class and c class models, audi, toyota nissan etc....


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Its the volt. We really really like it. Obviously we would of preferred the Tesla, but well you know.........


I was very tempted to get a volt, do you like how she rides?


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## a mongo frog (Oct 26, 2015)

Siino Gardens said:


> I was very tempted to get a volt, do you like how she rides?


Yes i do. She rides very nice. Nothing bad to say about the volt. Haven't had to go to the gas pumps in months, and the wife drives it all the time. If your in the Bay i know a guy with a 2014 with 11,700 for 17 grand.


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## Siino Gardens (Oct 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Yes i do. She rides very nice. Nothing bad to say about the volt. Haven't had to go to the gas pumps in months, and the wife drives it all the time. If your in the Bay i know a guy with a 2014 with 11,700 for 17 grand.


Family lives in the Bay, I need a four wheel driver now cause I live in the snow land.  I appreciate it though if I still lived in the city i would scoop that fucker up so fast!


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## ttystikk (Oct 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Yes i do. She rides very nice. Nothing bad to say about the volt. Haven't had to go to the gas pumps in months, and the wife drives it all the time. If your in the Bay i know a guy with a 2014 with 11,700 for 17 grand.


Why so cheap?


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## Darth Vapour (Oct 26, 2015)

hyroot said:


> No they're not. They flip over easier than suzuki sidekick. They would be crushed like a a soda can in an accident.
> 
> The safest cars are Volvo, Saab, and Mercedes. Each of those you won't even feel it if you blow out a tire. Yes I have experienced that in a Volvo s60 and a mercedes e 350. One time driving back from AZ and another driving back from Vegas.


 watch


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## a mongo frog (Oct 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Why so cheap?


Because the guy i know buys Volts at auction that have been in a wreck. He then fixes them up to almost mint condition. And then sells them. This is just this guys hobby. He's only done like 5 or 6 cars. He's an asain machinist, so he's precise and lets you have the car checked out.


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## ttystikk (Oct 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Because the guy i know buys Volts at auction that have been in a wreck. He then fixes them up to almost mint condition. And then sells them. This is just this guys hobby. He's only done like 5 or 6 cars. He's an asain machinist, so he's precise and lets you have the car checked out.


Wish he'd ship to Colorado. I like that price.


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## kdanna12 (Oct 27, 2015)

Tim Fox said:


> then sadly you have not seen what real cree cobs can do, its not a differant method, light required by the plant never changes, either you got what is needed or you dont, and those cheapy chinesse lights dont hold a candle to the new cobs, several manufactors of led ligiths like area 51 and optic are switching to the cobs,,, mars needs to get on board with it


Looks like they were not too far off


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## MCOB (Apr 1, 2016)

How did this thread go from talking about LED to HPS?

Anyways, just an update on one of the GrowthStar growers. We like to call him Dr. D and it has nothing to do with a sexual innuendo at least I was told.

Stay tuned or like us on Facebook for more progress updates

facebook.com/growthstar


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