# Confused whether to FIM or top??



## tweeety (Feb 23, 2010)

I all-- I have 9 clones that are about 4 weeks old, growing in organic soil and under a 1000W HPS. 7 are Royal purple kush which are growing shorter and bushier, and 2 are White Widow/Durban Poison which are much taller than the rest. My question is about FIMMING versus topping....to my understanding, FIMMING is taking off the very top growth of the main stem basically right above the node if you're satisfied with the height and want the plant to branch out from there? And topping is when you cut the main stem somewhere above the 3rd node and might have half of your plant left? For the two taller plants I have, I'm thinking if I top them after the 3rd node which would make them as tall as the tops of my shorter kush plants, then can I immediately clone the top I cut off (would still have 3 or 4 nodes), dip it in some Clonex, and plant in another soil pot? I hope this makes sense....I have read through a million posts here and looked at several diagrams and just want to make sure I'm understanding this right before I go ahead and chop  Help please!


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## cruzer101 (Feb 23, 2010)

What your talking about is pruning. There are basically three different ways to do it.

First is to cut right above the two top small branches at the top of the plant, this will make two tops. This will be too small to clone.

Second is to cut at the top again but a little higher, leaving about 25% of the top of the plant, thats FIM this will make 4 or 5 tops. again too small to clone.

Third is the uncle bens method. This is where you grow the plant up to like six nodes or branches. Then cut it off way down low, after the second set of small branches. This will send the growth hormones to all four of the lower branches and create four main colas. Here you have several shoots you can clone.

Personally I grow with a screen, (scrog) I top the plants, wait a week, add my screen, wait a week then take the bottom two branches under the screen and clone them. Then I tie the plants down to the screen as they grow. I keep tieing them until about the third week of flower. Then they all stay short and I have a new batch for the next grow.


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## Tidalwavedave (Feb 23, 2010)

I would suggest try fimming if it doesnt work you can always top, thats what I did since I didnt cut enough of the new leaves to halt it growing upwards and the leaves I cut where missing the tips. So I topped it a few days later and now I have at least 4 main tops and another 8 semi tops growing out of the sides of the 4 main tops. And yea you can take the top and use it for cloning tried it last week and so far the clone is not dead but it doesnt have roots yet so its just a matter of time. Its hard to find a good description on how to fim but what I got out of it was the new leaves that point up that are growing cut them about 80% off kinda like topping but only to the newest of growth so the lower nodes that have barely grown or havnt grown at all will shoot out. Do whatever you feel comfortable doing since you can always grow more


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## tweeety (Feb 23, 2010)

Just to clarify, a node is where a fan leaf attaches to the stem and a branch grows between that, correct? At the bottoms of the plants there are 2 fan leaves and sets of brances growing on exact opposite sides, then further up they start to alternate. At the bottom where they are on equal opposite sides of the main stem, is that counted as one or 2 nodes? I'm thinking my tallest plants at 13" have 8-10 nodes each so if I top (not FIM) them above the 3rd node from the bottom, this will leave a large part of the plant you said I can clone-- I already have nine plants and just want a couple more, so can I just use the entire top of the plant, dip the bottom 1" in the clonex and plant it in a new pot? Thanks for the advice, love this site


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## cruzer101 (Feb 23, 2010)

Yes, thats correct. a node is where the fan leaf attaches to the stem and a branch grows between. while in veg you will have a set's of nodes, one on each side. as the plant matures they will alternate. So I guess I ment 2 sets of nodes when I explained uncle bens method.

My experinces with cloning I have found the lower branches to root faster. My understanding is there are more rooting hormones in them. Another thing, I have had better success with smaller cuttings like 3 inches or so. Unless you are rooting with an aero cloner the larger 4 to 6 inches work better.


I love this site too.


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## Tidalwavedave (Feb 23, 2010)

Yes the nodes are where leaves poke out at and new growth usually forms above the leaf petiole connecting point to the stem. Heres some pics of my mother plant that was a seed(even distribution). The main point of topping and fimming is forcing the plants hormones to go somewhere else and to get more tops for more bud sites.


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## Tidalwavedave (Feb 23, 2010)

First pic where I topped the plant, second pic the stem with 3 nodes 1 under ground and 2 above ground you can see where I cut the leaves off to promote ventilation, and the third pic ending result. Yes Cruzer is right its better to take clones from the lower part Ive had 100% success cloning since the hormones are already there. Also when cutting always cut at 45 degree angles and when you have the clone in whatever medium cut some of the big fan leaves tips off so it will force the plant to stop growing on those leaves and use them for energy making for new growth.


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## tweeety (Feb 23, 2010)

So if I take the 13" plants with 10 nodes and top them down to about the 3rd set of nodes from the bottom, this leaves me with a big healthy top with at least 6-8 nodes on it already-- I only have one grow room with my HPS and I don't want to try and make a bunch of babies out of the top, so can I just trim off the bottom leaves (and branches??) so I have enough of a stem to plant(about 2-3") into the soil pot I have?


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## Tidalwavedave (Feb 23, 2010)

So you decided to Top to gain a clone. I would top it so the top when your done is about 5-6" which would probably be 3-5 nodes strip the bottom nodes so you have enough stem to go into soil I would say 1-2"make sure to coat that entire part with the rooting gel since where ever the gel goes roots will follow. Then make sure its nice and tightly packed in around the stem and the soil is moist. Cut the lower set of leaves tips to promote growth. Takes between 1-2 weeks for roots to grow I like to use Rockwool so I can see if the roots have started but soil works fine. OH dont forget right after cutting dip the end in water or the gel so air doesnt rise up the stem then you can trim and do whatever. Hope this helps


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## tweeety (Feb 23, 2010)

Tidalwavedave said:


> First pic where I topped the plant, second pic the stem with 3 nodes 1 under ground and 2 above ground you can see where I cut the leaves off to promote ventilation, and the third pic ending result. Yes Cruzer is right its better to take clones from the lower part Ive had 100% success cloning since the hormones are already there. Also when cutting always cut at 45 degree angles and when you have the clone in whatever medium cut some of the big fan leaves tips off so it will force the plant to stop growing on those leaves and use them for energy making for new growth.


 Tidalwave.....so is the second pic the actual top you took off the plant? With 1 node underground and 2 above ground nodes? At the top of the picture where it's cut off, is that the top of your plant right there?? Thanks for your help, I'm starting to get it lol........


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## Tidalwavedave (Feb 23, 2010)

the first pic where my finger is, is where I topped the plant thats probly 1 1/2 weeks of growth after topping under a 600w hps then put under cfls . The second pick was to show you what a node was but cruzer beat me to it, and its the stem of the plant in the picture, there is probly 2 or more nodes under ground where I took some clones before and I just added soil to add more nutrients since shes about 3 months old in 7 gallons of soil. The last pic is the final results of the multiple tops after I topped her sorry for the bad pictures the cfl was right to the side making shadows. My avatar pic was a day or two after I topped her so you can get a sense of whats happening. Since I was filled in my room I didnt need any more clones so I didnt use that top but at a friends we topped his Blueberry and used it for cloning and it looks fine its been about 1 week since taken but no roots sorry no pics of it.


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## tweeety (Feb 23, 2010)

Well I did it!! I just topped my tallest girl that was 13" which left about 3 sets of nodes (6 branches) and 6" in height. The top was about 8 nodes and 7" long so I cut off the bottom 2 nodes and rolled the remaining stem in Clonex and put her in a pot....immediate shock, but the soil was nice and wet and I made sure the stem was coated in the Clonex. As for the plant I topped, the stem was fairly thick, like the size of a pencil and looks hollow in the middle-- do I not need to worry about doing anything to it? Pics attached, please reply!! 

P.S. sorry if the pics are hard to see, my HPS is pretty close (but not burning) the tops of the plants, my camera probly just about blew up lol


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## tweeety (Feb 23, 2010)

Can anyone comment? Do they look okay???


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## cruzer101 (Feb 25, 2010)

It looks like you tried to do the uncle bens method but you left a total of six small branches. Not four or 2 sets like I said. From what I have seen this will not create four main colas but two and a shorter plant.

When you top low like this it isnt a bad idea to cover the cut with something like pruning tar. Especially if you can see the hole or main tube the nutes flow through. 

Dont be surprised if the cuttings look like they are dying. The leaf should turn yellow, thats a sign the cutting is trying to root. Takes a couple weeks.

Good luck.


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