# The real deal about LED's



## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

This thread is not to argue about who is a better manufacturer it is SHEERLY about FACT and FACT ONLY. 

This thread is for those of us in the AMC section that are growin with LED's whatever the manufacturer that are trying to increase our yield and performance. Now you may come to realize that the led you bought is not as good as s1 elses. Thats ok were not here to claim one is better than the other. We're here to discuss facts and if that ends up actually shedding some light on what LED is actually the top LED on the market so be it. That will just be an added bonus to this thread. Lets not make it the focus of the thread though.

Lets keep the focus of this thread to methods on growing with LED's for improving quality and quantity.

Remember were here to learn and share what we have learned not talk shit because you only spent 200 bucks on a LED panel. If its producing its producing and thats what im interested in and im sure most people using them.

Personally i am using a kessil and a blackstar right now. So far i've come to find the kessil does not have the trichome production of the blackstar, however 3 kessils will blow the holy living hell out of the blackstar for yeild and they use 20 less watts total. I believe the trichome issue is due to UV. I've also learned from using these lights that more lights of a lower wattage over a larger area actually increases your saturation point for light. Meaning if you got a 300w panel and covered a 3x3 area with it versus me getting 3 slightly smaller footprint lights and convering a 3x3 area i would have actually have more wattage crammed into a smaller space. Lets take the kessils for instance.

I could choose to have 1 h350 magenta covering a 3x3 area or i could take 3 kessils and cover the 3x3 area. Slightly more pricey in the kessils case to do it this way, however not all companys are the same. With blackstar for instance i could run 2 240 panels and have better results than s1 using one of their 500 or 600w panels. Reason y is same amount of light spread more effectively over a larger area.

The formula for LED's is more lights, less wattage, more area covered, so more quantity pulled. This is what i've learned so far from doing 4 runs with these.

Alright wizard heres your thread now what you got to say man on the subject?

PS. something i need to add and its very important there will be NO comparing of LED's to ANY other light tech in this thread if i can help it, if i do it myself please feel free to call me on it its important we keep this thread that way so no HPSvLED or LEDvT5 or Plasma or whatever the fuck lighting you want to argue about does not come into play here. Its about GROWING with LED's

Keep it to LED's and lets have fun guys.


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## cannawizard (Sep 16, 2011)

*subd.. this will be a flame free zone.. troll? lol... they are scared of AMC forums


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

thats right wizard put that ban hammer in the upright position ready to bring down the pain lol  good finally a thread we can use to be informative you keep that kessil porn comn man not many of us can afford the awesome spinny pimpness you got goin on lol. you and your cool toys lol


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## davoswavos (Sep 16, 2011)

The thing your forgetting is the blackstar 500s penetrate better than 240s. It is all about what you want to accomplish if your doing sog then multiple lights over a larger area would be ideal but 1 or 2 plants under a 500 will do some great things and have a big monster plant. I do see where your going with this though the only thing led's really lack anymore is a big footprint they have coma along ways and done some great things for penetration in the last couple years though. the best thing someone to do is get what works best for there grow not everyone likes to grow the same way. And I will take more potent weed over quantity any day and I'm sure I'm not alone on that one. I grow for myself I'm not a greedy drug dealer.


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## virulient (Sep 16, 2011)

Why would the 500 penetrate better than the 240? They use the same 3w chips, just less of them no? 

Sub'd!


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

how is it going to penetrate better davos it uses the same leds powered at the same 50% rate that 500 panel is just more of the 3w leds its a larger panel thats all not more penetration. Just food for thought for ya, i've done years of research on this. The blackstars are great but that 500 wont do any more than cover slightly more than 1 240 panel will. More Led's dont mean more penetration, they would have to drive them to a higher power wich would kill reliability according to gotham, and we all like warranties. All blackstars are made with 3w cree LEDs driven to 50% power for them to achieve the "500 watts" its something like 166 leds versus the 80 in a 240 panel. They are spread out over a larger area on the panel surface the 500 panel is also bigger than the 240


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! you win a prize =) sorry about earlier i was dealing with other ignorance and it spilled over into my posting with you welcome to the thread i hope it helps you.




virulient said:


> Why would the 500 penetrate better than the 240? They use the same 3w chips, just less of them no?
> 
> Sub'd!


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## virulient (Sep 16, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! you win a prize =) sorry about earlier i was dealing with other ignorance and it spilled over into my posting with you welcome to the thread i hope it helps you.


I'd like to apologize too, I was very in-mature earlier! Thanks for, what looks to be, an awesome new LED thread!


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

your welcome, lets keep the good times rollin man


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## Myles117 (Sep 16, 2011)

awww how cute. hahaha


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

Myles117 said:


> awww how cute. hahaha



fuck u myles lol


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## cary schellie (Sep 16, 2011)

why would anyone use led when t5s are cheaper and just as cool????????????


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

t5's are cheaper, they have mercury in them have fun when one of those bulbs blows over ur plants, oh and t5's are FUCKIN HOT AS FUCK are u kidding me? Ever sit under one and train plants not fun. LEDs run WAY colder than t5's produce more nug generally speaking depending on how many t5's ur using oh and use a hell of a lot less power still.

I question whether you read the OP or not man, i specifically asked for people with LED experience only this is not a i have questions about LED's thread its a how to grow with them and increase your yield and quality dont post unless you have something regarding that subject to add. Its going to convolute this thread which is what we dont want. Your welcome to follow along though.


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## virulient (Sep 16, 2011)

I would argue that LEDs not only cut out bulb changes, use less heat, and less electricity. Not to mention most of the new lights have adjustable color output allowing you to dial in the optimal spectrum for your certain condition/stage, etc...with ease.

That being said I think Kron made this post to discuss LEDs, and the variables concerning LED grows, so I think we should stick to that topic.


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## Joedank (Sep 16, 2011)

sweet man i like this already 
So to throw this out there what is the highest / most effective to put on a mover to get uv in my room all the way across this spanView attachment 1790656
or is it a losing battle ? i was looking into a blackstar or kessil on a horizontal six foot mover....
i currently run a sunmaster cooldeluxe halide lamp for ripening.... it works nicely due to its high purple spectrum but i want to go led or some such i think???


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## Myles117 (Sep 16, 2011)

Joedank said:


> sweet man i like this already
> So to throw this out there what is the highest / most effective to put on a mover to get uv in my room all the way across this spanView attachment 1790656
> or is it a losing battle ? i was looking into a blackstar or kessil on a horizontal six foot mover....


man if you went vertical bulbs you could ligh tthat room using half the bulbs you have in there. looks like huge overkill imo


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## Joedank (Sep 16, 2011)

i am in the process of that but lets stick to the topic at hand come to my thread to see me go vert this month!!! but with all six still in the room oh shit!! i pull enough to warrent the six lamps... oh and its sealed with co2 at 1000 ppm at 75, 40% humidity... oh and 3000 watts would hardly light 150 sq ft..... trolls are out tonight...lol


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

Cool man thanks for stoppin by Ill check out your other thread, i had to edit my first post to make sure we keep this thread to about growin with LED's only, Using them as a booster for your HPS setup counts though and is important as well because LED's can add helpful UV as well as other spectrum to help boost growth over your HPS. So that being said if your lookin for UV go with the blackstar. Im doin a scrog with a waterfarm and i got a blackstar on the left side of my 3x3 cab and a kessil on the right, its a magenta. The kessil is producin just as much but trichome production is down on the kessil side versus the blackstar side and its ONE PLANT.... WTF right? Its the kessil its the only thing that makes any sense because my canopy is dead nuts even and spread out pretty nice. So grab a 240w blackstar and rock it out man cheap and produces lots of trichs, since your using it as a booster you dont need to worry about the slightly lower yield of the blackstar as that is not your main purpose with it.

Sounds cool man ill stop by your other thread.


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## Joedank (Sep 16, 2011)

blackstar it is then!! i was leaning that way but the wizard was getting me confused with his shiny new gear... glad you have had both awhile rep for you gangster!!


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

wizard has some awesome new gear but hes the uv master so he shouldnt be too worried about the kessils less uv output, dont get me wrong they pump out trichs too but not like the blakcstars, but if you added a lil UV bulbage to a kessil setup it would be super sick which i think is where wizard is going to end up going after he runs a base test if hes smart. LOL


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 16, 2011)

lol dont scare myles away im trying to convert his mercury usin ass to LED's lol


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> wizard has some awesome new gear but hes the uv master so he shouldnt be too worried about the kessils less uv output, dont get me wrong they pump out trichs too but not like the blakcstars, but if you added a lil UV bulbage to a kessil setup it would be super sick which i think is where wizard is going to end up going after he runs a base test if hes smart. LOL


*im just a nobody who reads too much and smokes even more  ...nothing fancy, just a dedicated stoner w/ enough passion to burn out stars... hahaha

ooo yyeeeaaaa


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

Joedank said:


> blackstar it is then!! i was leaning that way but the wizard was getting me confused with his shiny new gear... glad you have had both awhile rep for you gangster!!


*yea, capt kron got me looking into the blackstars.. 240s... hollah


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## virulient (Sep 17, 2011)

What do you guys think of the AdvancedLED Diamond Series? Not trying to start a "which light is best" debate, just wondering if anyone had any personal experience using one of these lights, and how they faired. Thanks!


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

View attachment 1790957

..imo.. id try them, solid company, heard good reviews on the net.. i went kessil because i wanted something different, but if im going panels.. im looking into this and blackstars


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

*Light-emitting diode*

Light-emitting diode

Red, pure green and blue LEDs of the 5mm diffused typeTypePassive, optoelectronicWorking principleElectroluminescenceInventedNick Holonyak Jr. (1962)


Electronic symbol

Pin configurationanode and cathode
 
Parts of an LED. Although not directly labeled, the flat bottom surfaces of the anvil and post embedded inside the epoxy act as anchors, to prevent the conductors from being forcefully pulled out from mechanical strain or vibration.


 
LED spotlight using 38 individual diodes for powering from mains voltage


 
Dual-wavelength LED in SMD housing


A *light-emitting diode* (*LED*) is a semiconductor light source.[1] LEDs are used as indicator lamps in many devices and are increasingly used for other lighting. Introduced as a practical electronic component in 1962,[2] early LEDs emitted low-intensity red light, but modern versions are available across the visible, ultraviolet and infrared wavelengths, with very high brightness.
When a light-emitting diode is forward biased (switched on), electrons are able to recombine with electron holes within the device, releasing energy in the form of photons. This effect is called electroluminescence and the color of the light (corresponding to the energy of the photon) is determined by the energy gap of the semiconductor. LEDs are often small in area (less than 1 mm2), and integrated optical components may be used to shape its radiation pattern.[3] LEDs present many advantages over incandescent light sources including lower energy consumption, longer lifetime, improved robustness, smaller size, faster switching, and greater durability and reliability. LEDs powerful enough for room lighting are relatively expensive and require more precise current and heat management than compact fluorescent lamp sources of comparable output.
Light-emitting diodes are used in applications as diverse as replacements for aviation lighting, automotive lighting (particularly brake lamps, turn signals and indicators) as well as in traffic signals. The advantages of LEDs mentioned above have allowed new text and video displays and sensors to be developed, while their high switching rates are also useful in advanced communications technology. Infrared LEDs are also used in the remote control units of many commercial products including televisions, DVD players, and other domestic appliances.


 
Green electroluminescence from a point contact on a crystal of SiC recreates H. J. Round's original experiment from 1907.


Electroluminescence as a phenomenon was discovered in 1907 by the British experimenter H. J. Round of Marconi Labs, using a crystal of silicon carbide and a cat's-whisker detector.[4][5] Russian Oleg Vladimirovich Losev reported on the creation of a first LED in 1927.[6][7] His research was distributed in Russian, German and British scientific journals, but no practical use was made of the discovery for several decades.[8][9] Rubin Braunstein of the Radio Corporation of America reported on infrared emission from gallium arsenide (GaAs) and other semiconductor alloys in 1955.[10] Braunstein observed infrared emission generated by simple diode structures using gallium antimonide (GaSb), GaAs, indium phosphide (InP), and silicon-germanium (SiGe) alloys at room temperature and at 77 kelvin.
In 1961, American experimenters Robert Biard and Gary Pittman working at Texas Instruments,[11] found that GaAs emitted infrared radiation when electric current was applied and received the patent for the infrared LED.
The first practical visible-spectrum (red) LED was developed in 1962 by Nick Holonyak Jr., while working at General Electric Company.[2] Holonyak is seen as the "father of the light-emitting diode".[12] M. George Craford,[13] a former graduate student of Holonyak, invented the first yellow LED and improved the brightness of red and red-orange LEDs by a factor of ten in 1972.[14] In 1976, T.P. Pearsall created the first high-brightness, high efficiency LEDs for optical fiber telecommunications by inventing new semiconductor materials specifically adapted to optical fiber transmission wavelengths.[15]
Until 1968, visible and infrared LEDs were extremely costly, on the order of US $200 per unit, and so had little practical use.[16] The Monsanto Company was the first organization to mass-produce visible LEDs, using gallium arsenide phosphide in 1968 to produce red LEDs suitable for indicators.[16] Hewlett Packard (HP) introduced LEDs in 1968, initially using GaAsP supplied by Monsanto. The technology proved to have major uses for alphanumeric displays and was integrated into HP's early handheld calculators. In the 1970s commercially successful LED devices at under five cents each were produced by Fairchild Optoelectronics. These devices employed compound semiconductor chips fabricated with the planar process invented by Dr. Jean Hoerni at Fairchild Semiconductor.[17] The combination of planar processing for chip fabrication and innovative packaging methods enabled the team at Fairchild led by optoelectronics pioneer Thomas Brandt to achieve the needed cost reductions. These methods continue to be used by LED producers.
 
The first commercial LEDs were commonly used as replacements for incandescent and neon indicator lamps, and in seven-segment displays,[19] first in expensive equipment such as laboratory and electronics test equipment, then later in such appliances as TVs, radios, telephones, calculators, and even watches (see list of signal uses). These red LEDs were bright enough only for use as indicators, as the light output was not enough to illuminate an area. Readouts in calculators were so small that plastic lenses were built over each digit to make them legible. Later, other colors grew widely available and also appeared in appliances and equipment. As LED materials technology grew more advanced, light output rose, while maintaining efficiency and reliability at acceptable levels. The invention and development of the high power white light LED led to use for illumination, which is fast replacing incandescent and fluorescent lighting.[20][21] (see list of illumination applications). Most LEDs were made in the very common 5 mm T1¾ and 3 mm T1 packages, but with rising power output, it has grown increasingly necessary to shed excess heat to maintain reliability,[22] so more complex packages have been adapted for efficient heat dissipation. Packages for state-of-the-art high power LEDs bear little resemblance to early LEDs.

 
Illustration of Haitz's Law. Light output per LED as a function of production year, note the logarithmic scale on the vertical axis.


*Continuing development*

The first high-brightness blue LED was demonstrated by Shuji Nakamura of Nichia Corporation and was based on InGaN borrowing on critical developments in GaN nucleation on sapphire substrates and the demonstration of p-type doping of GaN which were developed by Isamu Akasaki and H. Amano in Nagoya. In 1995, Alberto Barbieri at the Cardiff University Laboratory (GB) investigated the efficiency and reliability of high-brightness LEDs and demonstrated a very impressive result by using a transparent contact made of indium tin oxide (ITO) on (AlGaInP/GaAs) LED. The existence of blue LEDs and high efficiency LEDs quickly led to the development of the first white LED, which employed a Y3Al5O12:Ce, or "YAG", phosphor coating to mix yellow (down-converted) light with blue to produce light that appears white. Nakamura was awarded the 2006 Millennium Technology Prize for his invention.[23]
The development of LED technology has caused their efficiency and light output to rise exponentially, with a doubling occurring about every 36 months since the 1960s, in a way similar to Moore's law. The advances are generally attributed to the parallel development of other semiconductor technologies and advances in optics and material science. This trend is normally called Haitz's Law after Dr. Roland Haitz.
In February 2008, 300 lumens of visible light per watt luminous efficacy (not per electrical watt) and warm-light emission was achieved by using nanocrystals.[25]
In 2009, a process for growing gallium nitride (GaN) LEDs on silicon has been reported. Epitaxy costs could be reduced by up to 90% using six-inch silicon wafers instead of two-inch sapphire wafers.

*Technology*

 
The inner workings of an LED


 
I-V diagram for a diode. An LED will begin to emit light when the on-voltage is exceeded. Typical on voltages are 23 volts


*Physics*

The LED consists of a chip of semiconducting material doped with impurities to create a _p-n junction_. As in other diodes, current flows easily from the p-side, or anode, to the n-side, or cathode, but not in the reverse direction. Charge-carrierselectrons and holesflow into the junction from electrodes with different voltages. When an electron meets a hole, it falls into a lower energy level, and releases energy in the form of a photon.
The wavelength of the light emitted, and thus its color depends on the band gap energy of the materials forming the _p-n junction_. In silicon or germanium diodes, the electrons and holes recombine by a _non-radiative transition_ which produces no optical emission, because these are indirect band gap materials. The materials used for the LED have a direct band gap with energies corresponding to near-infrared, visible or near-ultraviolet light.
LED development began with infrared and red devices made with gallium arsenide. Advances in materials science have enabled making devices with ever-shorter wavelengths, emitting light in a variety of colors.
LEDs are usually built on an n-type substrate, with an electrode attached to the p-type layer deposited on its surface. P-type substrates, while less common, occur as well. Many commercial LEDs, especially GaN/InGaN, also use sapphire substrate.
Most materials used for LED production have very high refractive indices. This means that much light will be reflected back into the material at the material/air surface interface. Thus, light extraction in LEDs is an important aspect of LED production, subject to much research and development.
*
Refractive index*

 
Idealized example of light emission cones in a semiconductor, for a single point-source emission zone. The left illustration is for a fully translucent wafer, while the right illustration shows the half-cones formed when the bottom layer is fully opaque. The light is actually emitted equally in all directions from the point-source, so the areas between the cones shows the large amount of trapped light energy that is wasted as heat.[27]


 
The light emission cones of a real LED wafer are far more complex than a single point-source light emission. Typically the light emission zone is a 2D plane between the wafers. Across this 2D plane, there is effectively a separate set of emission cones for every atom.
Drawing the billions of overlapping cones is impossible, so this is a simplified diagram showing the extents of all the emission cones combined. The larger side cones are clipped to show the interior features and reduce image complexity; they would extend to the opposite edges of the 2D emission plane.


Bare uncoated semiconductors such as silicon exhibit a very high refractive index relative to open air, which prevents passage of photons at sharp angles relative to the air-contacting surface of the semiconductor. This property affects both the light-emission efficiency of LEDs as well as the light-absorption efficiency of photovoltaic cells. The refractive index of silicon is 4.24, while air is 1.00002926[28]
Generally a flat-surfaced uncoated LED semiconductor chip will only emit light perpendicular to the semiconductor's surface, and a few degrees to the side, in a cone shape referred to as the _light cone_, _cone of light_,[29] or the _escape cone_.[27] The maximum angle of incidence is referred to as the critical angle. When this angle is exceeded photons no longer penetrate the semiconductor, but are instead reflected both internally inside the semiconductor crystal, and externally off the surface of the crystal as if it were a mirror.[27]
Internal reflections can escape through other crystalline faces, if the incidence angle is low enough and the crystal is sufficiently transparent to not re-absorb the photon emission. But for a simple square LED with 90-degree angled surfaces on all sides, the faces all act as equal angle mirrors. In this case the light can not escape and is lost as waste heat in the crystal.[27]
A convoluted chip surface with angled facets similar to a jewel or fresnel lens can increase light output by allowing light to be emitted perpendicular to the chip surface while far to the sides of the photon emission point.[30]
The ideal shape of a semiconductor with maximum light output would be a microsphere with the photon emission occurring at the exact center, with electrodes penetrating to the center to contact at the emission point. All light rays emanating from the center would be perpendicular to the entire surface of the sphere, resulting in no internal reflections. A hemispherical semiconductor would also work, with the flat back-surface serving as a mirror to back-scattered photons.[31]

*Transition coatings*


Many LED semiconductor chips are potted in clear or colored molded plastic shells. The plastic shell has three purposes:
Mounting the semiconductor chip in devices is easier to accomplish.
The tiny fragile electrical wiring is physically supported and protected from damage
The plastic acts as a refractive intermediary between the relatively high-index semiconductor and low-index open air.[32]
The third feature helps to boost the light emission from the semiconductor by acting as a diffusing lens, allowing light to be emitted at a much higher angle of incidence from the light cone, than the bare chip is able to emit alone.
*Efficiency and operational parameters*

Typical indicator LEDs are designed to operate with no more than 3060 mW of electrical power. Around 1999, Philips Lumileds introduced power LEDs capable of continuous use at one watt. These LEDs used much larger semiconductor die sizes to handle the large power inputs. Also, the semiconductor dies were mounted onto metal slugs to allow for heat removal from the LED die.
One of the key advantages of LED-based lighting sources is high luminous efficacy. White LEDs quickly matched and overtook the efficacy of standard incandescent lighting systems. In 2002, Lumileds made five-watt LEDs available with a luminous efficacy of 1822 lumens per watt (lm/W). For comparison, a conventional 60100 W incandescent light bulb emits around 15 lm/W, and standard fluorescent lights emit up to 100 lm/W. A recurring problem is that efficacy falls sharply with rising current. This effect is known as droop and effectively limits the light output of a given LED, raising heating more than light output for higher current.[33][34]

In September 2003, a new type of blue LED was demonstrated by the company Cree Inc. to provide 24 mW at 20 milliamperes (mA). This produced a commercially packaged white light giving 65 lm/W at 20 mA, becoming the brightest white LED commercially available at the time, and more than four times as efficient as standard incandescents. In 2006, they demonstrated a prototype with a record white LED luminous efficacy of 131 lm/W at 20 mA. Nichia Corporation has developed a white LED with luminous efficacy of 150 lm/W at a forward current of 20 mA.[36] Cree's XLamp XM-L LEDs, commercially available in 2011, produce 100 lumens per watt at their full power of 10 watts, and up to 160 lumens/watt at around 2 watts input power.
Practical general lighting needs high-power LEDs, of one watt or more. Typical operating currents for such devices begin at 350 mA.
Note that these efficiencies are for the LED chip only, held at low temperature in a lab. Lighting works at higher temperature and with drive circuit losses, so efficiencies are much lower. United States Department of Energy (DOE) testing of commercial LED lamps designed to replace incandescent lamps or CFLs showed that average efficacy was still about 46 lm/W in 2009 (tested performance ranged from 17 lm/W to 79 lm/W).[37]
Cree issued a press release on February 3, 2010 about a laboratory prototype LED achieving 208 lumens per watt at room temperature. The correlated color temperature was reported to be 4579 K.

*Lifetime and failure*

Main article: List of LED failure modes
Solid state devices such as LEDs are subject to very limited wear and tear if operated at low currents and at low temperatures. Many of the LEDs made in the 1970s and 1980s are still in service today. Typical lifetimes quoted are 25,000 to 100,000 hours but heat and current settings can extend or shorten this time significantly. [39]
The most common symptom of LED (and diode laser) failure is the gradual lowering of light output and loss of efficiency. Sudden failures, although rare, can occur as well. Early red LEDs were notable for their short lifetime. With the development of high-power LEDs the devices are subjected to higher junction temperatures and higher current densities than traditional devices. This causes stress on the material and may cause early light-output degradation. To quantitatively classify lifetime in a standardized manner it has been suggested to use the terms L75 and L50 which is the time it will take a given LED to reach 75% and 50% light output respectively.[40]
Like other lighting devices, LED performance is temperature dependent. Most manufacturers published ratings of LEDs are for an operating temperature of 25 °C. LEDs used outdoors, such as traffic signals or in-pavement signal lights, and that are utilized in climates where the temperature within the luminaire gets very hot, could result in low signal intensities or even failure.[41]
LED light output actually rises at colder temperatures (leveling off depending on type at around &#8722;30C[_citation needed_]). Consequently, LED technology may be a good replacement in uses such as supermarket freezer lighting[42][43][44] and will last longer than other technologies. Because LEDs emit less heat than incandescent bulbs, they are an energy-efficient technology for uses such as freezers. However, because they emit little heat, ice and snow may build up on the LED luminaire in colder climates.[41] This lack of waste heat generation has been observed to cause sometimes significant problems with street traffic signals and airport runway lighting in snow-prone areas, although some research has been done to try to develop heat sink technologies to transfer heat to other areas of the luminaire.

*Colors and materials*

Conventional LEDs are made from a variety of inorganic semiconductor materials, the following table shows the available colors with wavelength range, voltage drop and material:
ColorWavelength [nm]Voltage [V]Semiconductor materialInfrared_&#955;_ > 760&#916;_V_ < 1.9Gallium arsenide (GaAs)
Aluminium gallium arsenide (AlGaAs)Red610 < _&#955;_ < 7601.63 < &#916;_V_ < 2.03Aluminium gallium arsenide (AlGaAs)
Gallium arsenide phosphide (GaAsP)
Aluminium gallium indium phosphide (AlGaInP)
Gallium(III) phosphide (GaP)Orange590 < _&#955;_ < 6102.03 < &#916;_V_ < 2.10Gallium arsenide phosphide (GaAsP)
Aluminium gallium indium phosphide (AlGaInP)
Gallium(III) phosphide (GaP)Yellow570 < _&#955;_ < 5902.10 < &#916;_V_ < 2.18Gallium arsenide phosphide (GaAsP)
Aluminium gallium indium phosphide (AlGaInP)
Gallium(III) phosphide (GaP)Green500 < _&#955;_ < 5701.9[46] < &#916;_V_ < 4.0Indium gallium nitride (InGaN) / Gallium(III) nitride (GaN)
Gallium(III) phosphide (GaP)
Aluminium gallium indium phosphide (AlGaInP)
Aluminium gallium phosphide (AlGaP)Blue450 < _&#955;_ < 5002.48 < &#916;_V_ < 3.7Zinc selenide (ZnSe)
Indium gallium nitride (InGaN)
Silicon carbide (SiC) as substrate
Silicon (Si) as substrate  (under development)Violet400 < _&#955;_ < 4502.76 < &#916;_V_ < 4.0Indium gallium nitride (InGaN)Purplemultiple types2.48 < &#916;_V_ < 3.7Dual blue/red LEDs,
blue with red phosphor,
or white with purple plasticUltraviolet_&#955;_ < 4003.1 < &#916;_V_ < 4.4Diamond (235 nm)[47]
Boron nitride (215 nm)[48][49]
Aluminium nitride (AlN) (210 nm)[50]
Aluminium gallium nitride (AlGaN)
Aluminium gallium indium nitride (AlGaInN)  (down to 210 nm)[51]WhiteBroad spectrum&#916;_V_ = 3.5Blue/UV diode with yellow phosphor *[edit] Ultraviolet and 

blue LEDs*

 
Blue LEDs.


Current bright blue LEDs are based on the wide band gap semiconductors GaN (gallium nitride) and InGaN (indium gallium nitride). They can be added to existing red and green LEDs to produce the impression of white light, though white LEDs today rarely use this principle.
The first blue LEDs using gallium nitride were made in 1971 by Jacques Pankove at RCA Laboratories.[52] These devices had too little light output to be of practical use and research into gallium nitride devices slowed. In August 1989, Cree Inc. introduced the first commercially available blue LED based on the indirect bandgap semiconductor, silicon carbide.[53] SiC LEDs had very low effiency, no more than about 0.03%, but did emit in the blue portion of the visible light spectrum.
In the late 1980s, key breakthroughs in GaN epitaxial growth and p-type doping[54] ushered in the modern era of GaN-based optoelectronic devices. Building upon this foundation, in 1993 high brightness blue LEDs were demonstrated. Efficiency (light energy produced vs. electrical energy used) reached 10%.[55] High-brightness blue LEDs invented by Shuji Nakamura of Nichia Corporation using gallium nitride revolutionized LED lighting, making high-power light sources practical.
By the late 1990s, blue LEDs had become widely available. They have an active region consisting of one or more InGaN quantum wells sandwiched between thicker layers of GaN, called cladding layers. By varying the relative InN-GaN fraction in the InGaN quantum wells, the light emission can be varied from violet to amber. AlGaN aluminium gallium nitride of varying AlN fraction can be used to manufacture the cladding and quantum well layers for ultraviolet LEDs, but these devices have not yet reached the level of efficiency and technological maturity of the InGaN-GaN blue/green devices. If the active quantum well layers are GaN, instead of alloyed InGaN or AlGaN, the device will emit near-ultraviolet light with wavelengths around 350370 nm. Green LEDs manufactured from the InGaN-GaN system are far more efficient and brighter than green LEDs produced with non-nitride material systems.
With nitrides containing aluminium, most often AlGaN and AlGaInN, even shorter wavelengths are achievable. Ultraviolet LEDs in a range of wavelengths are becoming available on the market. Near-UV emitters at wavelengths around 375395 nm are already cheap and often encountered, for example, as black light lamp replacements for inspection of anti-counterfeiting UV watermarks in some documents and paper currencies. Shorter wavelength diodes, while substantially more expensive, are commercially available for wavelengths down to 247 nm.[56] As the photosensitivity of microorganisms approximately matches the absorption spectrum of DNA, with a peak at about 260 nm, UV LED emitting at 250270 nm are to be expected in prospective disinfection and sterilization devices. Recent research has shown that commercially available UVA LEDs (365 nm) are already effective disinfection and sterilization devices.[57]
Deep-UV wavelengths were obtained in laboratories using aluminium nitride (210 nm),[50] boron nitride (215 nm)[48][49] and diamond (235 nm).[47]

*White light*

There are two primary ways of producing high intensity white-light using LEDs. One is to use individual LEDs that emit three primary colors[58]red, green, and blueand then mix all the colors to form white light. The other is to use a phosphor material to convert monochromatic light from a blue or UV LED to broad-spectrum white light, much in the same way a fluorescent light bulb works.
Due to metamerism, it is possible to have quite different spectra that appear white.

*RGB systems*

 
Combined spectral curves for blue, yellow-green, and high brightness red solid-state semiconductor LEDs. FWHM spectral bandwidth is approximately 2427 nm for all three colors.


White light can be formed by mixing differently colored lights; the most common method is to use red, green and blue (RGB). Hence the method is called multi-colored white LEDs (sometimes referred to as Red Green Blue LEDs). Because these need electronic circuits to control the blending and diffusion of different colors, these are seldom used to produce white lighting. Nevertheless, this method is particularly interesting in many uses because of the flexibility of mixing different colors,[59] and, in principle, this mechanism also has higher quantum efficiency in producing white light.
There are several types of multi-colored white LEDs: di-, tri-, and tetrachromatic white LEDs. Several key factors that play among these different methods, include color stability, color rendering capability, and luminous efficacy. Often higher efficiency will mean lower color rendering, presenting a trade off between the luminous efficiency and color rendering. For example, the dichromatic white LEDs have the best luminous efficacy (120 lm/W), but the lowest color rendering capability. Conversely, although tetrachromatic white LEDs have excellent color rendering capability, they often have poor luminous efficiency. Trichromatic white LEDs are in between, having both good luminous efficacy (>70 lm/W) and fair color rendering capability.
Multi-color LEDs offer not merely another means to form white light, but a new means to form light of different colors. Most perceivable colors can be formed by mixing different amounts of three primary colors. This allows precise dynamic color control. As more effort is devoted to investigating this method, multi-color LEDs should have profound influence on the fundamental method which we use to produce and control light color. However, before this type of LED can play a role on the market, several technical problems need solving. These include that this type of LED's emission power decays exponentially with rising temperature,[60] resulting in a substantial change in color stability. Such problems inhibit and may preclude industrial use. Thus, many new package designs aimed at solving this problem have been proposed and their results are now being reproduced by researchers and scientists.

*Phosphor-based LEDs*

 
Spectrum of a white LED clearly showing blue light which is directly emitted by the GaN-based LED (peak at about 465 nm) and the more broadband Stokes-shifted light emitted by the Ce3+:YAG phosphor which emits at roughly 500700 nm.


This method involves coating an LED of one color (mostly blue LED made of InGaN) with phosphor of different colors to form white light; the resultant LEDs are called *phosphor-based white LEDs*.[61] A fraction of the blue light undergoes the Stokes shift being transformed from shorter wavelengths to longer. Depending on the color of the original LED, phosphors of different colors can be employed. If several phosphor layers of distinct colors are applied, the emitted spectrum is broadened, effectively raising the color rendering index (CRI) value of a given LED.[62]
Phosphor based LEDs have a lower efficiency than normal LEDs due to the heat loss from the Stokes shift and also other phosphor-related degradation issues. However, the phosphor method is still the most popular method for making high intensity white LEDs. The design and production of a light source or light fixture using a monochrome emitter with phosphor conversion is simpler and cheaper than a complex RGB system, and the majority of high intensity white LEDs presently on the market are manufactured using phosphor light conversion.
The greatest barrier to high efficiency is the seemingly unavoidable Stokes energy loss. However, much effort is being spent on optimizing these devices to higher light output and higher operation temperatures. For instance, the efficiency can be raised by adapting better package design or by using a more suitable type of phosphor. Philips Lumileds' patented conformal coating process addresses the issue of varying phosphor thickness, giving the white LEDs a more homogeneous white light.[63] With development ongoing, the efficiency of phosphor based LEDs generally rises with each new product announcement.
The phosphor based white LEDs encapsulate InGaN blue LEDs inside phosphor coated epoxy. A common yellow phosphor material is cerium-doped yttrium aluminium garnet (Ce3+:YAG).
White LEDs can also be made by coating near ultraviolet (NUV) emitting LEDs with a mixture of high efficiency europium-based red and blue emitting phosphors plus green emitting copper and aluminium doped zinc sulfide (ZnS:Cu, Al). This is a method analogous to the way fluorescent lamps work. This method is less efficient than the blue LED with YAG:Ce phosphor, as the Stokes shift is larger, so more energy is converted to heat, but yields light with better spectral characteristics, which render color better. Due to the higher radiative output of the ultraviolet LEDs than of the blue ones, both methods offer comparable brightness. A concern is that UV light may leak from a malfunctioning light source and cause harm to human eyes or skin.

*Other white LEDs*

Another method used to produce experimental white light LEDs used no phosphors at all and was based on homoepitaxially grown zinc selenide (ZnSe) on a ZnSe substrate which simultaneously emitted blue light from its active region and yellow light from the substrate.[64]

*Organic light-emitting diodes (OLEDs)*

Main article: Organic light-emitting diode
 
Demonstration of a flexible OLED device


In an organic light emitting diode (OLED), the electroluminescent material comprising the emissive layer of the diode is an organic compound. The organic material is electrically conductive due to the delocalization of pi electrons caused by conjugation over all or part of the molecule, and the material therefore functions as an organic semiconductor.[65] The organic materials can be small organic molecules in a crystalline phase, or polymers.
The potential advantages of OLEDs include thin, low cost displays with a low driving voltage, wide viewing angle and high contrast and color gamut.[66] Polymer LEDs have the added benefit of printable[67][68] and flexible[69] displays. OLEDs have been used to make visual displays for portable electronic devices such as cellphones, digital cameras, and MP3 players while possible future uses include lighting and televisions.[66]

*Quantum dot LEDs (experimental)*

Quantum dots (QD) are semiconductor nanocrystals that possess unique optical properties.[70] Their emission color can be tuned from the visible throughout the infrared spectrum. This allows quantum dot LEDs to create almost any color on the CIE diagram. This provides more color options and better color rendering than white LEDs.[_citation needed_] Quantum dot LEDs are available in the same package types as traditional phosphor based LEDs.[_citation needed_] One example of this is a method developed by Michael Bowers, at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, involving coating a blue LED with quantum dots that glow white in response to the blue light from the LED. This method emits a warm, yellowish-white light similar to that made by incandescent bulbs.[71] Quantum dots are also being considered for use in white light emitting diodes in liquid crystal display (LCD) televisions.[72]
The major difficulty in using quantum dots based LEDs is the insufficient stability of QDs under prolonged irradiation.[_citation needed_] In February 2011 scientists at PlasmaChem GmbH could synthesize quantum dots for LED applications and build a light converter on their basis, which could efficiently convert light from blue to any other color for many hundred hours.[_citation needed_] Such QDs can be used to emit visible or near infrared light of any wavelength being excited by light with a shorter wavelength.

*Types*

 
LEDs are produced in a variety of shapes and sizes. The 5 mm cylindrical package (red, fifth from the left) is the most common, estimated at 80% of world production.[_citation needed_] The color of the plastic lens is often the same as the actual color of light emitted, but not always. For instance, purple plastic is often used for infrared LEDs, and most blue devices have clear housings. There are also LEDs in SMT packages, such as those found on blinkies and on cell phone keypads (not shown).



The main types of LEDs are miniature, high power devices and custom designs such as alphanumeric or multi-color.
 
Difference between 3528 and 5050 LED SMD Chips

*Miniature*

 
Different sized LEDs. 8 mm, 5 mm and 3 mm, with a wooden match-stick for scale.


Main article: Miniature light-emitting diode
These are mostly single-die LEDs used as indicators, and they come in various-sizes from 2 mm to 8 mm, through-hole and surface mount packages. They are usually simple in design, not requiring any separate cooling body.[74] Typical current ratings ranges from around 1 mA to above 20 mA. The small scale sets a natural upper boundary on power consumption due to heat caused by the high current density and need for heat sinking.
 
A green surface-mount LED mounted on an Arduino circuit board.


*Mid-range*

Medium power LEDs are often through-hole mounted and used when an output of a few lumen is needed. They sometimes have the diode mounted to four leads (two cathode leads, two anode leads) for better heat conduction and carry an integrated lens. An example of this is the Superflux package, from Philips Lumileds. These LEDs are most commonly used in light panels, emergency lighting and automotive tail-lights. Due to the larger amount of metal in the LED, they are able to handle higher currents (around 100 mA). The higher current allows for the higher light output required for tail-lights and emergency lighting.

*High power*

See also: Solid-state lighting and LED lamp
 
High-power light emitting diodes (Luxeon, Lumileds)


High power LEDs (HPLED) can be driven at currents from hundreds of mA to more than an ampere, compared with the tens of mA for other LEDs. Some can emit over a thousand lumens.[75][76] Since overheating is destructive, the HPLEDs must be mounted on a heat sink to allow for heat dissipation. If the heat from a HPLED is not removed, the device will fail in seconds. One HPLED can often replace an incandescent bulb in a torch, or be set in an array to form a powerful LED lamp.
Some well-known HPLEDs in this category are the Lumileds Rebel Led, Osram Opto Semiconductors Golden Dragon and Cree X-lamp. As of September 2009 some HPLEDs manufactured by Cree Inc. now exceed 105 lm/W [77] (e.g. the XLamp XP-G LED chip emitting Cool White light) and are being sold in lamps intended to replace incandescent, halogen, and even fluorescent lights, as LEDs grow more cost competitive.
LEDs have been developed by Seoul Semiconductor that can operate on AC power without the need for a DC converter. For each half cycle, part of the LED emits light and part is dark, and this is reversed during the next half cycle. The efficacy of this type of HPLED is typically 40 lm/W.[78] A large number of LED elements in series may be able to operate directly from line voltage. In 2009 Seoul Semiconductor released a high DC voltage capable of being driven from AC power with a simple controlling circuit. The low power dissipation of these LEDs affords them more flexibility than the original AC LED design.[79]
*[edit] Application-specific variations*


_Flashing LEDs_ are used as attention seeking indicators without requiring external electronics. Flashing LEDs resemble standard LEDs but they contain an integrated multivibrator circuit which causes the LED to flash with a typical period of one second. In diffused lens LEDs this is visible as a small black dot. Most flashing LEDs emit light of one color, but more sophisticated devices can flash between multiple colors and even fade through a color sequence using RGB color mixing.
 
Calculator LED display, 1970s.



_Bi-color LEDs_ are actually two different LEDs in one case. They consist of two dies connected to the same two leads antiparallel to each other. Current flow in one direction emits one color, and current in the opposite direction emits the other color. Alternating the two colors with sufficient frequency causes the appearance of a blended third color. For example, a red/green LED operated in this fashion will color blend to emit a yellow appearance.

_Tri-color LEDs_ are two LEDs in one case, but the two LEDs are connected to separate leads so that the two LEDs can be controlled independently and lit simultaneously. A three-lead arrangement is typical with one common lead (anode or cathode).[_citation needed_]

_RGB LEDs_ contain red, green and blue emitters, generally using a four-wire connection with one common lead (anode or cathode). These LEDs can have either common positive or common negative leads. Others however, have only two leads (positive and negative) and have a built in tiny electronic control unit.

_Alphanumeric LED displays_ are available in seven-segment and starburst format. Seven-segment displays handle all numbers and a limited set of letters. Starburst displays can display all letters. Seven-segment LED displays were in widespread use in the 1970s and 1980s, but rising use of liquid crystal displays, with their lower power needs and greater display flexibility, has reduced the popularity of numeric and alphanumeric LED displays.
*Considerations for use*

*Power sources*

Main article: LED power sources
The current/voltage characteristic of an LED is similar to other diodes, in that the current is dependent exponentially on the voltage (see Shockley diode equation). This means that a small change in voltage can cause a large change in current. If the maximum voltage rating is exceeded by a small amount, the current rating may be exceeded by a large amount, potentially damaging or destroying the LED. The typical solution is to use constant current power supplies, or driving the LED at a voltage much below the maximum rating. Since most common power sources (batteries, mains) are not constant current sources, most LED fixtures must include a power converter. However, the _I_/_V_ curve of nitride-based LEDs is quite steep above the knee and gives an _I__f_ of a few milliamperes at a _V__f_ of 3 V, making it possible to power a nitride-based LED from a 3 V battery such as a coin cell without the need for a current limiting resistor.

* Electrical polarity*

Main article: Electrical polarity of LEDs
As with all diodes, current flows easily from p-type to n-type material.[80] However, no current flows and no light is emitted if a small voltage is applied in the reverse direction. If the reverse voltage grows large enough to exceed the breakdown voltage, a large current flows and the LED may be damaged. If the reverse current is sufficiently limited to avoid damage, the reverse-conducting LED is a useful noise diode.

*Safety and health*

The vast majority of devices containing LEDs are "safe under all conditions of normal use", and so are classified as "Class 1 LED product"/"LED Klasse 1". At present, only a few LEDsextremely bright LEDs that also have a tightly focused viewing angle of 8° or lesscould, in theory, cause temporary blindness, and so are classified as "Class 2".[81] In general, laser safety regulationsand the "Class 1", "Class 2", etc. systemalso apply to LEDs.[82]
While LEDs have the advantage over fluorescent lamps that they do not contain mercury, they may contain other hazardous metals such as lead and arsenic. A study published in 2011 states: "According to federal standards, LEDs are not hazardous except for low-intensity red LEDs, which leached Pb [lead] at levels exceeding regulatory limits (186 mg/L; regulatory limit: 5). However, according to California regulations, excessive levels of copper (up to 3892 mg/kg; limit: 2500), Pb (up to 8103 mg/kg; limit: 1000), nickel (up to 4797 mg/kg; limit: 2000), or silver (up to 721 mg/kg; limit: 500) render all except low-intensity yellow LEDs hazardous.".[83]

*Advantages*


*Efficiency:* LEDs emit more light per watt than incandescent light bulbs.[84] Their efficiency is not affected by shape and size, unlike fluorescent light bulbs or tubes.
*Color:* LEDs can emit light of an intended color without using any color filters as traditional lighting methods need. This is more efficient and can lower initial costs.
*Size:* LEDs can be very small (smaller than 2 mm2[85]) and are easily populated onto printed circuit boards.
*On/Off time:* LEDs light up very quickly. A typical red indicator LED will achieve full brightness in under a microsecond.[86] LEDs used in communications devices can have even faster response times.
*Cycling:* LEDs are ideal for uses subject to frequent on-off cycling, unlike fluorescent lamps that fail faster when cycled often, or HID lamps that require a long time before restarting.
*Dimming:* LEDs can very easily be dimmed either by pulse-width modulation or lowering the forward current.[87]
*Cool light:* In contrast to most light sources, LEDs radiate very little heat in the form of IR that can cause damage to sensitive objects or fabrics. Wasted energy is dispersed as heat through the base of the LED.
*Slow failure:* LEDs mostly fail by dimming over time, rather than the abrupt failure of incandescent bulbs.[88]
*Lifetime:* LEDs can have a relatively long useful life. One report estimates 35,000 to 50,000 hours of useful life, though time to complete failure may be longer.[89] Fluorescent tubes typically are rated at about 10,000 to 15,000 hours, depending partly on the conditions of use, and incandescent light bulbs at 1,0002,000 hours.
*Shock resistance:* LEDs, being solid state components, are difficult to damage with external shock, unlike fluorescent and incandescent bulbs which are fragile.
*Focus:* The solid package of the LED can be designed to focus its light. Incandescent and fluorescent sources often require an external reflector to collect light and direct it in a usable manner.
*Disadvantages*


*High initial price:* LEDs are currently more expensive, price per lumen, on an initial capital cost basis, than most conventional lighting technologies. The additional expense partially stems from the relatively low lumen output and the drive circuitry and power supplies needed.
*Temperature dependence:* LED performance largely depends on the ambient temperature of the operating environment. Over-driving an LED in high ambient temperatures may result in overheating the LED package, eventually leading to device failure. Adequate heat sinking is needed to maintain long life. This is especially important in automotive, medical, and military uses where devices must operate over a wide range of temperatures, and need low failure rates.
*Voltage sensitivity:* LEDs must be supplied with the voltage above the threshold and a current below the rating. This can involve series resistors or current-regulated power supplies.[90]
*Light quality:* Most cool-white LEDs have spectra that differ significantly from a black body radiator like the sun or an incandescent light. The spike at 460 nm and dip at 500 nm can cause the color of objects to be perceived differently under cool-white LED illumination than sunlight or incandescent sources, due to metamerism,[91] red surfaces being rendered particularly badly by typical phosphor based cool-white LEDs. However, the color rendering properties of common fluorescent lamps are often inferior to what is now available in state-of-art white LEDs[_citation needed_].
*Area light source:* LEDs do not approximate a point source of light, but rather a lambertian distribution. So LEDs are difficult to apply to uses needing a spherical light field. LEDs cannot provide divergence below a few degrees. In contrast, lasers can emit beams with divergences of 0.2 degrees or less.[92]
*Blue hazard:* There is a concern that blue LEDs and cool-white LEDs are now capable of exceeding safe limits of the so-called blue-light hazard as defined in eye safety specifications such as ANSI/IESNA RP-27.105: Recommended Practice for Photobiological Safety for Lamp and Lamp Systems.[93][94]

*Electrical Polarity:* Unlike incandescent light bulbs, which illuminate regardless of the electrical polarity, LEDs will only light with correct electrical polarity.

*Blue pollution:* Because cool-white LEDs (i.e., LEDs with high color temperature) emit proportionally more blue light than conventional outdoor light sources such as high-pressure sodium vapor lamps, the strong wavelength dependence of Rayleigh scattering means that cool-white LEDs can cause more light pollution than other light sources. The International Dark-Sky Association discourages using white light sources with correlated color temperature above 3,000 K.[95][_not in citation given_]
*Droop*: The efficiency of LEDs tends to decrease as one increases current.[96][97][98][99]
*Applications*

 
LED lighting in the aircraft cabin of an Airbus A320 Enhanced.


 
A large LED display behind a disc jockey.


 
LED destination signs on buses, one with a colored route number.


 
LED digital display that can display 4 digits along with points.


 
Traffic light using LED


 
Western Australia Police car with LEDs used in its high-mounted brake light, its rear window and roof-mounted flashing Police vehicle lights and roof-mounted road user information display.


 
Printhead of an Oki LED printer


 
LED daytime running lights of Audi A4


 
LED panel light source used in an experiment on plant growth. The findings of such experiments may be used to grow food in space on long duration missions.


 
LED Illumination.


 
LED lights reacting dynamically to video feed via AmBX.


 
Macrophotography of an illuminated blue LED



LED uses fall into four major categories:

Visual signals where light goes more or less directly from the source to the human eye, to convey a message or meaning.
Illumination where light is reflected from objects to give visual response of these objects.
Measuring and interacting with processes involving no human vision.[100]
Narrow band light sensors where LEDs operate in a reverse-bias mode and respond to incident light, instead of emitting light.
For more than 70 years, until the LED, practically all lighting was incandescent and fluorescent with the first fluorescent light only being commercially available after the 1939 World's Fair.
*Indicators and signs*

The low energy consumption, low maintenance and small size of modern LEDs has led to uses as status indicators and displays on a variety of equipment and installations. Large-area LED displays are used as stadium displays and as dynamic decorative displays. Thin, lightweight message displays are used at airports and railway stations, and as destination displays for trains, buses, trams, and ferries.
One-color light is well suited for traffic lights and signals, exit signs, emergency vehicle lighting, ships' navigation lights or lanterns (chromacity and luminance standards being set under the Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972, Annex I and the CIE) and LED-based Christmas lights. In cold climates, LED traffic lights may remain snow covered.[101] Red or yellow LEDs are used in indicator and alphanumeric displays in environments where night vision must be retained: aircraft cockpits, submarine and ship bridges, astronomy observatories, and in the field, e.g. night time animal watching and military field use.
Because of their long life and fast switching times, LEDs have been used in brake lights for cars high-mounted brake lights, trucks, and buses, and in turn signals for some time, but many vehicles now use LEDs for their rear light clusters. The use in brakes improves safety, due to a great reduction in the time needed to light fully, or faster rise time, up to 0.5 second faster than an incandescent bulb. This gives drivers behind more time to react. It is reported that at normal highway speeds, this equals one car length equivalent in increased time to react. In a dual intensity circuit (i.e., rear markers and brakes) if the LEDs are not pulsed at a fast enough frequency, they can create a phantom array, where ghost images of the LED will appear if the eyes quickly scan across the array. White LED headlamps are starting to be used. Using LEDs has styling advantages because LEDs can form much thinner lights than incandescent lamps with parabolic reflectors.
Due to the relative cheapness of low output LEDs, they are also used in many temporary uses such as glowsticks, throwies, and the photonic textile Lumalive. Artists have also used LEDs for LED art.
Weather/all-hazards radio receivers with Specific Area Message Encoding (SAME) have three LEDs: red for warnings, orange for watches, and yellow for advisories & statements whenever issued.

*Lighting*

Main article: LED lamp
With the development of high efficiency and high power LEDs it has become possible to use LEDs in lighting and illumination. Replacement light bulbs have been made, as well as dedicated fixtures and LED lamps. LEDs are used as street lights and in other architectural lighting where color changing is used. The mechanical robustness and long lifetime is used in automotive lighting on cars, motorcycles and on bicycle lights.
LED street lights are employed on poles and in parking garages. In 2007, the Italian village Torraca was the first place to convert its entire illumination system to LEDs.[102]
LEDs are used in aviation lighting. Airbus has used LED lighting in their Airbus A320 Enhanced since 2007, and Boeing plans its use in the 787. LEDs are also being used now in airport and heliport lighting. LED airport fixtures currently include medium-intensity runway lights, runway centerline lights, taxiway centerline & edge lights, guidance signs and obstruction lighting.
LEDs are also suitable for backlighting for LCD televisions and lightweight laptop displays and light source for DLP projectors (See LED TV). RGB LEDs raise the color gamut by as much as 45%. Screens for TV and computer displays can be made thinner using LEDs for backlighting.[103]
LEDs are used increasingly in aquarium lights. Particularly for reef aquariums, LED lights provide an efficient light source with less heat output to help maintain optimal aquarium temperatures. LED-based aquarium fixtures also have the advantage of being manually adjustable to emit a specific color-spectrum for ideal coloration of corals, fish, and invertebrates while optimizing photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) which raises growth and sustainability of photosynthetic life such as corals, anemones, clams, and macroalgae. These fixtures can be electronically programmed to simulate various lighting conditions throughout the day, reflecting phases of the sun and moon for a dynamic reef experience. LED fixtures typically cost up to five times as much as similarly rated fluorescent or high-intensity discharge lighting designed for reef aquariums and are not as high output to date.
The lack of IR/heat radiation makes LEDs ideal for stage lights using banks of RGB LEDs that can easily change color and decrease heating from traditional stage lighting, as well as medical lighting where IR-radiation can be harmful. In energy conservation, LEDs lower heat output also means air conditioning(cooling) systems have less heat to dispose of, reducing carbon dioxide emissions.
LEDs are small, durable and need little power, so they are used in hand held devices such as flashlights. LED strobe lights or camera flashes operate at a safe, low voltage, instead of the 250+ volts commonly found in xenon flashlamp-based lighting. This is especially useful in cameras on mobile phones, where space is at a premium and bulky voltage-raising circuitry is undesirable.
LEDs are used for infrared illumination in night vision uses including security cameras. A ring of LEDs around a video camera, aimed forward into a retroreflective background, allows chroma keying in video productions.
LEDs are now used commonly in all market areas from commercial to home use: standard lighting and AV installations, stage and theatrical, architectural and public spaces, wherever artificial light is used.
In many countries incandescent lighting for homes and offices is no longer available and building regulations insist on new premises being fitted out at day one with LED fixtures and fittings[_citation needed_].
Increasingly the adaptability of color LEDs are finding uses in medical and educational applications such as mood enhancement and new technologies, such as AmBX, for the control of color LEDs have been developed to exploit LED versatility. NASA has even sponsored research for the use of LEDs to promote health for astronauts. [104]

*Smart lighting*

Light can be used to transmit broadband data, which is already implemented in IrDA standards using infrared LEDs. Because LEDs can cycle on and off millions of times per second, they can be wireless transmitters and access points for data transport.[105] Lasers can also be modulated in this manner.

*Sustainable lighting*

Efficient lighting is needed for sustainable architecture. In 2009, a typical 13 watt LED lamp emitted 450 to 650 lumens.[106] which is equivalent to a standard 40 watt incandescent bulb. In 2011, LEDs have become more efficient, so that a 6 Watt LED can easily achieve the same results. [107] A standard 40 W incandescent bulb has an expected lifespan of 1,000 hours while an LED can continue to operate with reduced efficiency for more than 50,000 hours, 50 times longer than the incandescent bulb.

*Energy consumption*

One kilowatt-hour of electricity will cause 1.34 pounds (610 g) of CO2 emission.[108] Assuming the average light bulb is on for 10 hours a day, one 40-watt incandescent bulb will cause 196 pounds (89 kg) of CO2 emission per year. The 6-watt LED equivalent will only cause 30 pounds (14 kg) of CO2 over the same time span. A buildings carbon footprint from lighting can be reduced by 85% by exchanging all incandescent bulbs for new LEDs.

*Economically sustainable*

LED light bulbs could be a cost-effective option for lighting a home or office space because of their very long lifetimes. Consumer use of LEDs as a replacement for conventional lighting system is currently hampered by the high cost and low efficiency of available products. 2009 DOE testing results showed an average efficacy of 35 lm/W, below that of typical CFLs, and as low as 9 lm/W, worse than standard incandescents.[106] However, as of 2011 there are LED bulbs available as efficient as 150 lm/W and even inexpensive low-end models typically exceed 50 lm/W. The high initial cost of the commercial LED bulb is due to the expensive sapphire substrate which is key to the production process. The sapphire apparatus must be coupled with a mirror-like collector to reflect light that would otherwise be wasted.

*Non-visual applications*

The light from LEDs can be modulated very quickly so they are used extensively in optical fiber and Free Space Optics communications. This include remote controls, such as for TVs and VCRs, where infrared LEDs are often used. Opto-isolators use an LED combined with a photodiode or phototransistor to provide a signal path with electrical isolation between two circuits. This is especially useful in medical equipment where the signals from a low-voltage sensor circuit (usually battery powered) in contact with a living organism must be electrically isolated from any possible electrical failure in a recording or monitoring device operating at potentially dangerous voltages. An optoisolator also allows information to be transferred between circuits not sharing a common ground potential.
Many sensor systems rely on light as the signal source. LEDs are often ideal as a light source due to the requirements of the sensors. LEDs are used as movement sensors, for example in optical computer mice. The Nintendo Wii's sensor bar uses infrared LEDs. Pulse oximeters use them for measuring oxygen saturation. Some flatbed scanners use arrays of RGB LEDs rather than the typical cold-cathode fluorescent lamp as the light source. Having independent control of three illuminated colors allows the scanner to calibrate itself for more accurate color balance, and there is no need for warm-up. Further, its sensors only need be monochromatic, since at any one time the page being scanned is only lit by one color of light. Touch sensing: Since LEDs can also be used as photodiodes, they can be used for both photo emission and detection. This could be used in for example a touch-sensing screen that register reflected light from a finger or stylus.[109]
Many materials and biological systems are sensitive to, or dependent on light. Grow lights use LEDs to increase photosynthesis in plants[110] and bacteria and viruses can be removed from water and other substances using UV LEDs for sterilization.[57] Other uses are as UV curing devices for some ink and coating methods, and in LED printers.
Plant growers are interested in LEDs because they are more energy efficient, emit less heat (can damage plants close to hot lamps), and can provide the optimum light frequency for plant growth and bloom periods compared to currently used grow lights: HPS (high pressure sodium), MH (metal halide) or CFL/low-energy. However, LEDs have not replaced these grow lights due to higher price. As mass production and LED kits develop, the LED products will become cheaper.
LEDs have also been used as a medium quality voltage reference in electronic circuits. The forward voltage drop (e.g., about 1.7 V for a normal red LED) can be used instead of a Zener diode in low-voltage regulators. Red LEDs have the flattest _I_/_V_ curve above the knee. Nitride-based LEDs have a fairly steep _I_/_V_ curve and are useless for this purpose. Although LED forward voltage is far more current-dependent than a good Zener, Zener diodes are not widely available below voltages of about 3 V.

*Light sources for machine vision systems*

Machine vision systems often require bright and homogeneous illumination, so features of interest are easier to process. LEDs are often used for this purpose, and this is likely to remain one of their major uses until price drops low enough to make signaling and illumination uses more widespread. Barcode scanners are the most common example of machine vision, and many low cost ones use red LEDs instead of lasers. Optical computer mice are also another example of LEDs in machine vision, as it is used to provide an even light source on the surface for the miniature camera within the mouse. LEDs constitute a nearly ideal light source for machine vision systems for several reasons:
The size of the illuminated field is usually comparatively small and machine vision systems are often quite expensive, so the cost of the light source is usually a minor concern. However, it might not be easy to replace a broken light source placed within complex machinery, and here the long service life of LEDs is a benefit.
LED elements tend to be small and can be placed with high density over flat or even-shaped substrates (PCBs etc.) so that bright and homogeneous sources can be designed which direct light from tightly controlled directions on inspected parts. This can often be obtained with small, low-cost lenses and diffusers, helping to achieve high light densities with control over lighting levels and homogeneity. LED sources can be shaped in several configurations (spot lights for reflective illumination; ring lights for coaxial illumination; back lights for contour illumination; linear assemblies; flat, large format panels; dome sources for diffused, omnidirectional illumination).
LEDs can be easily strobed (in the microsecond range and below) and synchronized with imaging. High-power LEDs are available allowing well-lit images even with very short light pulses. This is often used to obtain crisp and sharp still images of quickly moving parts.
LEDs come in several different colors and wavelengths, allowing easy use of the best color for each need, where different color may provide better visibility of features of interest. Having a precisely known spectrum allows tightly matched filters to be used to separate informative bandwidth or to reduce disturbing effects of ambient light. LEDs usually operate at comparatively low working temperatures, simplifying heat management and dissipation. This allows using plastic lenses, filters, and diffusers. Waterproof units can also easily be designed, allowing use in harsh or wet environments (food, beverage, oil industries).



_*Electronics portal*__*Energy portal*_

Display examples
Laser diode
LED circuit
LED lamp
LED as light sensor
Luminous efficacy
Nixie tube
Photovoltaics
Seven-segment display
Solar lamp
Solid-state lighting (SSL)


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## virulient (Sep 17, 2011)

Wow canna, what else can I say. That's amazing man, +rep and loads of respect for you man! I briefly studied this technology back in my Air Force days...in Electronic Principles. Very Very fascinating, and I can tell you this post just became an invaluable source of information! Thanks Canna!!!!

Edit : Also, thanks for the input on the Diamond series. I think I'm going to pick one up for a friends grow and see how it goes with his. I'm feeling cautiously optimistic!


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

virulient said:


> Wow canna, what else can I say. That's amazing man, +rep and loads of respect for you man! I briefly studied this technology back in my Air Force days...in Electronic Principles. Very Very fascinating, and I can tell you this post just became an invaluable source of information! Thanks Canna!!!!
> 
> Edit : Also, thanks for the input on the Diamond series. I think I'm going to pick one up for a friends grow and see how it goes with his. I'm feeling cautiously optimistic!


*please bless us with whatever findings you get  keep it green


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

*Organic light-emitting diode*

 
Demonstration of a flexible OLED device


 
A green emitting OLED device


An *organic light emitting diode* (*OLED*) is a light-emitting diode (LED) in which the emissive electroluminescent layer is a film of organic compounds which emit light in response to an electric current. This layer of organic semiconductor material is situated between two electrodes. Generally, at least one of these electrodes is transparent.
OLEDs are used in television set screens, computer monitors, small, portable system screens such as mobile phones and PDAs,watches, advertising, information, and indication. OLEDs are also used in large-area light-emitting elements for general illumination. Due to their low thermal conductivity, they typically emit less light per area than inorganic LEDs.
An OLED display works without a backlight. Thus, it can display deep black levels and can be thinner and lighter than liquid crystal displays. In low ambient light conditions such as dark rooms, an OLED screen can achieve a higher contrast ratio than an LCDwhether the LCD uses either cold cathode fluorescent lamps or the more recently developed LED backlight.
There are two main families of OLEDs: those based on small molecules and those employing polymers. Adding mobile ions to an OLED creates a Light-emitting Electrochemical Cell or LEC, which has a slightly different mode of operation.
OLED displays can use either passive-matrix (PMOLED) or active-matrix addressing schemes. Active-matrix OLEDs (AMOLED) require a thin-film transistor backplane to switch each individual pixel on or off, but allow for higher resolution and larger display sizes.

*History*

The first observations of electroluminescence in organic materials were in the early 1950s by A. Bernanose and co-workers at the Nancy-Université, France. They applied high-voltage alternating current (AC) fields in air to materials such as acridine orange, either deposited on or dissolved in cellulose or cellophane thin films. The proposed mechanism was either direct excitation of the dye molecules or excitation of electrons.[1][2][3][4]

In 1960, Martin Pope and co-workers at New York University developed ohmic dark-injecting electrode contacts to organic crystals.[5][6][7] They further described the necessary energetic requirements (work functions) for hole and electron injecting electrode contacts. These contacts are the basis of charge injection in all modern OLED devices. Pope's group also first observed direct current (DC) electroluminescence under vacuum on a pure single crystal of anthracene and on anthracene crystals doped with tetracene in 1963[8] using a small area silver electrode at 400V. The proposed mechanism was field-accelerated electron excitation of molecular fluorescence.
Pope's group reported in 1965[9] that in the absence of an external electric field, the electroluminescence in anthracene crystals is caused by the recombination of a thermalized electron and hole, and that the conducting level of anthracene is higher in energy than the exciton energy level. Also in 1965, W. Helfrich and W. G. Schneider of the National Research Council in Canada produced double injection recombination electroluminescence for the first time in an anthracene single crystal using hole and electron injecting electrodes,[10] the forerunner of modern double injection devices. In the same year, Dow Chemical researchers patented a method of preparing electroluminescent cells using high voltage (5001500 V) AC-driven (1003000 Hz) electrically-insulated one millimetre thin layers of a melted phosphor consisting of ground anthracene powder, tetracene, and graphite powder.[11] Their proposed mechanism involved electronic excitation at the contacts between the graphite particles and the anthracene molecules.
Device performance was limited by the poor electrical conductivity of contemporary organic materials. This was overcome by the discovery and development of highly conductive polymers.[12] For more on the history of such materials, see conductive polymers.

Electroluminescence from polymer films was first observed by Roger Partridge at the National Physical Laboratory in the United Kingdom. The device consisted of a film of poly(n-vinylcarbazole) up to 2.2 micrometres thick located between two charge injecting electrodes. The results of the project were patented in 1975[13] and published in 1983.[14][15][16][17]
The first diode device was reported at Eastman Kodak by Ching W. Tang and Steven Van Slyke in 1987.[18] This device used a novel two-layer structure with separate hole transporting and electron transporting layers such that recombination and light emission occurred in the middle of the organic layer. This resulted in a reduction in operating voltage and improvements in efficiency and led to the current era of OLED research and device production.
Research into polymer electroluminescence culminated in 1990 with J. H. Burroughes _et al._ at the Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge reporting a high efficiency green light-emitting polymer based device using 100 nm thick films of poly(p-phenylene vinylene).[19]

*Working principle*

 
Schematic of a bilayer OLED: 1. Cathode (&#8722, 2. Emissive Layer, 3. Emission of radiation, 4. Conductive Layer, 5. Anode (+)


A typical OLED is composed of a layer of organic materials situated between two electrodes, the anode and cathode, all deposited on a substrate. The organic molecules are electrically conductive as a result of delocalization of pi electrons caused by conjugation over all or part of the molecule. These materials have conductivity levels ranging from insulators to conductors, and therefore are considered organic semiconductors. The highest occupied and lowest unoccupied molecular orbitals (HOMO and LUMO) of organic semiconductors are analogous to the valence and conduction bands of inorganic semiconductors.
Originally, the most basic polymer OLEDs consisted of a single organic layer. One example was the first light-emitting device synthesised by J. H. Burroughes _et al._, which involved a single layer of poly(p-phenylene vinylene). However multilayer OLEDs can be fabricated with two or more layers in order to improve device efficiency. As well as conductive properties, different materials may be chosen to aid charge injection at electrodes by providing a more gradual electronic profile,[20] or block a charge from reaching the opposite electrode and being wasted.[21] Many modern OLEDs incorporate a simple bilayer structure, consisting of a conductive layer and an emissive layer. More recent developments in OLED architecture improves quantum efficiency (up to 19%) by using a graded heterojunction[22]. In the graded heterojunction architecture, the composition of hole and electron-transport materials varies continuously within the emissive layer with a dopant emitter. The graded heterojunction architecture combines the benefits of both conventional architectures by improving charge injection while simultaneously balancing charge transport within the emissive region.[23]
During operation, a voltage is applied across the OLED such that the anode is positive with respect to the cathode. A current of electrons flows through the device from cathode to anode, as electrons are injected into the LUMO of the organic layer at the cathode and withdrawn from the HOMO at the anode. This latter process may also be described as the injection of electron holes into the HOMO. Electrostatic forces bring the electrons and the holes towards each other and they recombine forming an exciton, a bound state of the electron and hole. This happens closer to the emissive layer, because in organic semiconductors holes are generally more mobile than electrons. The decay of this excited state results in a relaxation of the energy levels of the electron, accompanied by emission of radiation whose frequency is in the visible region. The frequency of this radiation depends on the band gap of the material, in this case the difference in energy between the HOMO and LUMO.
As electrons and holes are fermions with half integer spin, an exciton may either be in a singlet state or a triplet state depending on how the spins of the electron and hole have been combined. Statistically three triplet excitons will be formed for each singlet exciton. Decay from triplet states (phosphorescence) is spin forbidden, increasing the timescale of the transition and limiting the internal efficiency of fluorescent devices. Phosphorescent organic light-emitting diodes make use of spinorbit interactions to facilitate intersystem crossing between singlet and triplet states, thus obtaining emission from both singlet and triplet states and improving the internal efficiency.
Indium tin oxide (ITO) is commonly used as the anode material. It is transparent to visible light and has a high work function which promotes injection of holes into the HOMO level of the organic layer. A typical conductive layer may consist of PEDOTSS[24] as the HOMO level of this material generally lies between the workfunction of ITO and the HOMO of other commonly used polymers, reducing the energy barriers for hole injection. Metals such as barium and calcium are often used for the cathode as they have low work functions which promote injection of electrons into the LUMO of the organic layer.[25] Such metals are reactive, so require a capping layer of aluminium to avoid degradation.
Single carrier devices are typically used to study the kinetics and charge transport mechanisms of an organic material and can be useful when trying to study energy transfer processes. As current through the device is composed of only one type of charge carrier, either electrons or holes, recombination does not occur and no light is emitted. For example, electron only devices can be obtained by replacing ITO with a lower work function metal which increases the energy barrier of hole injection. Similarly, hole only devices can be made by using a cathode comprised solely of aluminium, resulting in an energy barrier too large for efficient electron injection.[26][27][28]

*Material technologies*

*Small molecules*

 
Alq3,[18] commonly used in small molecule OLEDs.


Efficient OLEDs using small molecules were first developed by Dr. Ching W. Tang _et al._[18] at Eastman Kodak. The term OLED traditionally refers specifically to this type of device, though the term SM-OLED is also in use.
Molecules commonly used in OLEDs include organometallic chelates (for example Alq3, used in the organic light-emitting device reported by Tang _et al._), fluorescent and phosphorescent dyes and conjugated dendrimers. A number of materials are used for their charge transport properties, for example triphenylamine and derivatives are commonly used as materials for hole transport layers.[29] Fluorescent dyes can be chosen to obtain light emission at different wavelengths, and compounds such as perylene, rubrene and quinacridone derivatives are often used.[30] Alq3 has been used as a green emitter, electron transport material and as a host for yellow and red emitting dyes.
The production of small molecule devices and displays usually involves thermal evaporation in a vacuum. This makes the production process more expensive and of limited use for large-area devices than other processing techniques. However, contrary to polymer-based devices, the vacuum deposition process enables the formation of well controlled, homogeneous films, and the construction of very complex multi-layer structures. This high flexibility in layer design, enabling distinct charge transport and charge blocking layers to be formed, is the main reason for the high efficiencies of the small molecule OLEDs.
Coherent emission from a laser dye-doped tandem SM-OLED device, excited in the pulsed regime, has been demonstrated.[31] The emission is nearly diffraction limited with a spectral width similar to that of broadband dye lasers.[32]

*Polymer light-emitting diodes*

 
poly(_p_-phenylene vinylene), used in the first PLED.[19]


Polymer light-emitting diodes (PLED), also light-emitting polymers (LEP), involve an electroluminescent conductive polymer that emits light when connected to an external voltage. They are used as a thin film for full-spectrum colour displays. Polymer OLEDs are quite efficient and require a relatively small amount of power for the amount of light produced.
Vacuum deposition is not a suitable method for forming thin films of polymers. However, polymers can be processed in solution, and spin coating is a common method of depositing thin polymer films. This method is more suited to forming large-area films than thermal evaporation. No vacuum is required, and the emissive materials can also be applied on the substrate by a technique derived from commercial inkjet printing.[33][34] However, as the application of subsequent layers tends to dissolve those already present, formation of multilayer structures is difficult with these methods. The metal cathode may still need to be deposited by thermal evaporation in vacuum. An alternative method to vacuum deposition is to deposit a Langmuir-Blodgett film.
Typical polymers used in PLED displays include derivatives of poly(_p_-phenylene vinylene) and polyfluorene. Substitution of side chains onto the polymer backbone may determine the colour of emitted light[35] or the stability and solubility of the polymer for performance and ease of processing.[36]
While unsubstituted poly(p-phenylene vinylene) (PPV) is typically insoluble, a number of PPVs and related poly(naphthalene vinylene)s (PNVs) that are soluble in organic solvents or water have been prepared via ring opening metathesis polymerization.[37][38][39]

*Phosphorescent materials*

 
Ir(mppy)3, a phosphorescent dopant which emits green light.[40]


Main article: Phosphorescent organic light-emitting diode
Phosphorescent organic light emitting diodes use the principle of electrophosphorescence to convert electrical energy in an OLED into light in a highly efficient manner,[41][42] with the internal quantum efficiencies of such devices approaching 100%.[43]
Typically, a polymer such as poly(n-vinylcarbazole) is used as a host material to which an organometallic complex is added as a dopant. Iridium complexes[42] such as Ir(mppy)3[40] are currently the focus of research, although complexes based on other heavy metals such as platinum[41] have also been used.
The heavy metal atom at the centre of these complexes exhibits strong spin-orbit coupling, facilitating intersystem crossing between singlet and triplet states. By using these phosphorescent materials, both singlet and triplet excitons will be able to decay radiatively, hence improving the internal quantum efficiency of the device compared to a standard PLED where only the singlet states will contribute to emission of light.
Applications of OLEDs in solid state lighting require the achievement of high brightness with good CIE coordinates (for white emission). The use of macromolecular species like polyhedral oligomeric silsesquioxanes (POSS) in conjunction with the use of phosphorescent species such as Ir for printed OLEDs have exhibited brightnesses as high as 10,000 cd/m2.[44]

*Device Architectures*

*Structure*


*Bottom or top emission:* Bottom emission devices use a transparent or semi-transparent bottom electrode to get the light through a transparent substrate. Top emission devices[45][46] use a transparent or semi-transparent top electrode emitting light directly. Top-emitting OLEDs are better suited for active-matrix applications as they can be more easily integrated with a non-transparent transistor backplane.

*Transparent OLEDs* use transparent or semi-transparent contacts on both sides of the device to create displays that can be made to be both top and bottom emitting (transparent). TOLEDs can greatly improve contrast, making it much easier to view displays in bright sunlight.[47] This technology can be used in Head-up displays, smart windows or augmented reality applications. Novaled's[48] OLED panel presented in Finetech Japan 2010, boasts a transparency of 6070%.

*Stacked OLEDs* use a pixel architecture that stacks the red, green, and blue subpixels on top of one another instead of next to one another, leading to substantial increase in gamut and color depth, and greatly reducing pixel gap. Currently, other display technologies have the RGB (and RGBW) pixels mapped next to each other decreasing potential resolution.

*Inverted OLED:* In contrast to a conventional OLED, in which the anode is placed on the substrate, an Inverted OLED uses a bottom cathode that can be connected to the drain end of an n-channel TFT especially for the low cost amorphous silicon TFT backplane useful in the manufacturing of AMOLED displays.[49]
*Patterning technologies*

Patternable organic light-emitting devices use a light or heat activated electroactive layer. A latent material (PEDOT-TMA) is included in this layer that, upon activation, becomes highly efficient as a hole injection layer. Using this process, light-emitting devices with arbitrary patterns can be prepared.[50]
Colour patterning can be accomplished by means of laser, such as radiation-induced sublimation transfer (RIST).[51]
Organic vapour jet printing (OVJP) uses an inert carrier gas, such as argon or nitrogen, to transport evaporated organic molecules (as in Organic Vapor Phase Deposition). The gas is expelled through a micron sized nozzle or nozzle array close to the substrate as it is being translated. This allows printing arbitrary multilayer patterns without the use of solvents.
Conventional OLED displays are formed by vapor thermal evaporation (VTE) and are patterned by shadow-mask. A mechanical mask has openings allowing the vapor to pass only on the desired location.

*Backplane technologies*

For a high resolution display like a TV, a TFT backplane is necessary to drive the pixels correctly. Currently, Low Temperature Polycrystalline silicon LTPS-TFT is used for commercial AMOLED displays. LTPS-TFT has variation of the performance in a display, so various compensation circuits have been reported.[45] Due to the size limitation of the excimer laser used for LTPS, the AMOLED size was limited. To cope with the hurdle related to the panel size, amorphous-silicon/microcrystalline-silicon backplanes have been reported with large display prototype demonstrations.[52]

*Advantages*


 
Demonstration of a 4.1" prototype flexible display from Sony



The different manufacturing process of OLEDs lends itself to several advantages over flat panel displays made with LCD technology.

*Lower cost in the future:* OLEDs can be printed onto any suitable substrate by an inkjet printer or even by screen printing,[53] theoretically making them cheaper to produce than LCD or plasma displays. However, fabrication of the OLED substrate is more costly than that of a TFT LCD, until mass production methods lower cost through scalability. Roll-roll vapour-deposition methods for organic devices do allow mass production of thousands of devices per minute for minimal cost, although this technique also induces problems in that multi-layer devices can be challenging to make due to registration issues, lining up the different printed layers to the required degree of accuracy.

*Light weight & flexible plastic substrates:* OLED displays can be fabricated on flexible plastic substrates leading to the possibility of flexible organic light-emitting diodes being fabricated or other new applications such as roll-up displays embedded in fabrics or clothing. As the substrate used can be flexible such as PET,[54] the displays may be produced inexpensively.

*Wider viewing angles & improved brightness:* OLEDs can enable a greater artificial contrast ratio (both dynamic range and static, measured in purely dark conditions) and viewing angle compared to LCDs because OLED pixels directly emit light. OLED pixel colours appear correct and unshifted, even as the viewing angle approaches 90° from normal.

*Better power efficiency:* LCDs filter the light emitted from a backlight, allowing a small fraction of light through so they cannot show true black, while an inactive OLED element does not produce light or consume power.[55]

*Response time:* OLEDs can also have a faster response time than standard LCD screens. Whereas LCD displays are capable of between 2 and 8 ms response time offering a frame rate of ~200 Hz, an OLED can theoretically have less than 0.01 ms response time enabling 100,000 Hz refresh rates.
*Disadvantages*

 
LEP display showing partial failure


 
An old OLED display showing wear



*Current costs:* OLED manufacture currently requires process steps that make it extremely expensive. Specifically, it requires the use of Low-Temperature Polysilicon backplanes; LTPS backplanes in turn require laser annealing from an amorphous silicon start, so this part of the manufacturing process for AMOLEDs starts with the process costs of standard LCD, and then adds an expensive, time-consuming process that cannot currently be used on large-area glass substrates.

*Lifespan:* The biggest technical problem for OLEDs was the limited lifetime of the organic materials.[56] In particular, blue OLEDs historically have had a lifetime of around 14,000 hours to half original brightness (five years at 8 hours a day) when used for flat-panel displays. This is lower than the typical lifetime of LCD, LED or PDP technologyeach currently rated for about 25,000  40,000 hours to half brightness, depending on manufacturer and model.[57][58] However, some manufacturers' displays aim to increase the lifespan of OLED displays, pushing their expected life past that of LCD displays by improving light outcoupling, thus achieving the same brightness at a lower drive current.[59][60] In 2007, experimental OLEDs were created which can sustain 400 cd/m2 of luminance for over 198,000 hours for green OLEDs and 62,000 hours for blue OLEDs.[61]

*Color balance issues:* Additionally, as the OLED material used to produce blue light degrades significantly more rapidly than the materials that produce other colors, blue light output will decrease relative to the other colors of light. This differential color output change will change the color balance of the display and is much more noticeable than a decrease in overall luminance.[62] This can be partially avoided by adjusting colour balance but this may require advanced control circuits and interaction with the user, which is unacceptable for some users. In order to delay the problem, manufacturers bias the colour balance towards blue so that the display initially has an artificially blue tint, leading to complaints of artificial-looking, over-saturated colors. More commonly, though, manufacturers optimize the size of the R, G and B subpixels to reduce the current density through the subpixel in order to equalize lifetime at full luminance. For example, a blue subpixel may be 100% larger than the green subpixel. The red subpixel may be 10% smaller than the green.

*Efficiency of blue OLEDs:* Improvements to the efficiency and lifetime of blue OLEDs is vital to the success of OLEDs as replacements for LCD technology. Considerable research has been invested in developing blue OLEDs with high external quantum efficiency as well as a deeper blue color.[63][64] External quantum efficiency values of 20% and 19% have been reported for red (625 nm) and green (530 nm) diodes, respectively.[65][66] However, blue diodes (430 nm) have only been able to achieve maximum external quantum efficiencies in the range of 4% to 6%.[67]

*Water damage:* Water can damage the organic materials of the displays. Therefore, improved sealing processes are important for practical manufacturing. Water damage may especially limit the longevity of more flexible displays.[68]

*Outdoor performance:* As an emissive display technology, OLEDs rely completely upon converting electricity to light, unlike most LCDs which are to some extent reflective; e-ink leads the way in efficiency with ~ 33% ambient light reflectivity, enabling the display to be used without any internal light source. The metallic cathode in an OLED acts as a mirror, with reflectance approaching 80%, leading to poor readability in bright ambient light such as outdoors. However, with the proper application of a circular polarizer and anti-reflective coatings, the diffuse reflectance can be reduced to less than 0.1%. With 10,000 fc incident illumination (typical test condition for simulating outdoor illumination), that yields an approximate photopic contrast of 5:1.

*Power consumption:* While an OLED will consume around 40% of the power of an LCD displaying an image which is primarily black, for the majority of images it will consume 6080% of the power of an LCD  however it can use over three times as much power to display an image with a white background[69] such as a document or website. This can lead to reduced real-world battery life in mobile devices.

*Screen burn-in:* Unlike displays with a common light source, the brightness of each OLED pixel fades depending on the content displayed. The varied lifespan of the organic dyes can cause a discrepancy between red, green, and blue intensity. This leads to image persistence, also known as burn-in.[70]

*UV sensitivity:* OLED displays can be damaged by prolonged exposure to UV light. The most pronounced example of this can be seen with a near UV laser (such as a Bluray pointer) and can damage the display almost instantly with more than 20 mW leading to dim or dead spots where the beam is focused. This is usually avoided by installing a UV blocking filter over the panel and this can easily be seen as a clear plastic layer on the glass. Removal of this filter can lead to severe damage and an unusable display after only a few months of room light exposure.
*Manufacturers and commercial uses*

 
Magnified image of the AMOLED screen on the Google Nexus One smartphone using the RGBG system of the PenTile Matrix Family.


 
A 3.8 cm (1.5 in) OLED display from a Creative ZEN V media player


OLED technology is used in commercial applications such as displays for mobile phones and portable digital media players, car radios and digital cameras among others. Such portable applications favor the high light output of OLEDs for readability in sunlight and their low power drain. Portable displays are also used intermittently, so the lower lifespan of organic displays is less of an issue. Prototypes have been made of flexible and rollable displays which use OLEDs' unique characteristics. Applications in flexible signs and lighting are also being developed.[71] Philips Lighting have made OLED lighting samples under the brand name 'Lumiblade' available online.[72]
OLEDs have been used in most Motorola and Samsung colour cell phones, as well as some HTC, LG and Sony Ericsson models.[73] Nokia has also recently introduced some OLED products including the N85 and the N86 8MP, both of which feature an AMOLED display. OLED technology can also be found in digital media players such as the Creative ZEN V, the iriver clix, the Zune HD and the Sony Walkman X Series.
The Google and HTC Nexus One smartphone includes an AMOLED screen, as does HTC's own Desire and Legend phones. However due to supply shortages of the Samsung-produced displays, certain HTC models will use Sony's SLCD displays in the future,[74] while the Google and Samsung Nexus S smartphone will use "Super Clear LCD" instead in some countries.[75]
Other manufacturers of OLED panels include Anwell Technologies Limited,[76] Chi Mei Corporation,[77] LG,[78] and others.[79]
DuPont stated in a press release in May 2010 that they can produce a 50-inch OLED TV in two minutes with a new printing technology. If this can be scaled up in terms of manufacturing, then the total cost of OLED TVs would be greatly reduced. Dupont also states that OLED TVs made with this less expensive technology can last up to 15 years if left on for a normal eight hour day.[80][81]
The use of OLEDs may be subject to patents held by Eastman Kodak, DuPont, General Electric, Royal Philips Electronics, numerous universities and others.[82] There are by now literally thousands of patents associated with OLEDs, both from larger corporations and smaller technology companies [1].

*Samsung applications*

By 2004 Samsung, South Korea's largest conglomerate, was the world's largest OLED manufacturer, producing 40% of the OLED displays made in the world,[83] and as of 2010 has a 98% share of the global AMOLED market.[84] The company is leading the world OLED industry, generating $100.2 million out of the total $475 million revenues in the global OLED market in 2006.[85] As of 2006, it held more than 600 American patents and more than 2800 international patents, making it the largest owner of AMOLED technology patents.[85]
Samsung SDI announced in 2005 the world's largest OLED TV at the time, at 21 inches (53 cm).[86] This OLED featured the highest resolution at the time, of 6.22 million pixels. In addition, the company adopted active matrix based technology for its low power consumption and high-resolution qualities. This was exceeded in January 2008, when Samsung showcased the world's largest and thinnest OLED TV at the time, at 31 inches and 4.3 mm.[87]
In May 2008, Samsung unveiled an ultra-thin 12.1 inch laptop OLED display concept, with a 1,280×768 resolution with infinite contrast ratio.[88] According to Woo Jong Lee, Vice President of the Mobile Display Marketing Team at Samsung SDI, the company expected OLED displays to be used in notebook PCs as soon as 2010.[89]
In October 2008, Samsung showcased the world's thinnest OLED display, also the first to be 'flappable' and bendable.[90] It measures just 0.05 mm (thinner than paper), yet a Samsung staff member said that it is "technically possible to make the panel thinner".[90] To achieve this thickness, Samsung etched an OLED panel that uses a normal glass substrate. The drive circuit was formed by low-temperature polysilicon TFTs. Also, low-molecular organic EL materials were employed. The pixel count of the display is 480 × 272. The contrast ratio is 100,000:1, and the luminance is 200 cd/m². The colour reproduction range is 100% of the NTSC standard.
In the same month, Samsung unveiled what was then the world's largest OLED Television at 40-inch with a Full HD resolution of 1920×1080 pixel.[91] In the FPD International, Samsung stated that its 40-inch OLED Panel is the largest size currently possible. The panel has a contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1, a colour gamut of 107% NTSC, and a luminance of 200 cd/m² (peak luminance of 600 cd/m²).
At the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in January 2010, Samsung demonstrated a laptop computer with a large, transparent OLED display featuring up to 40% transparency[92] and an animated OLED display in a photo ID card.[93]
Samsung's latest AMOLED smartphones use their Super AMOLED trademark, with the Samsung Wave S8500 and Samsung i9000 Galaxy S being launched in June 2010. In January 2011 Samsung announced their Super AMOLED Plus displays[94] - which offer several advances over the older Super AMOLED displays - real stripe matrix (50% more sub pixels), thinner form factor, brighter image and an 18% reduction in energy consumption.

*Sony applications*

 
Sony XEL-1, the world's first OLED TV.[95] (front)


 
Sony XEL-1 (side)


The Sony CLIÉ PEG-VZ90 was released in 2004, being the first PDA to feature an OLED screen.[96] Other Sony products to feature OLED screens include the MZ-RH1 portable minidisc recorder, released in 2006[97] and the Walkman X Series.[98]
At the 2007 Las Vegas Consumer Electronics Show (CES), Sony showcased 11-inch (28 cm, resolution 960×540) and 27-inch (68.5 cm, full HD resolution at 1920×1080) OLED TV models.[99] Both claimed 1,000,000:1 contrast ratios and total thicknesses (including bezels) of 5 mm. In April 2007, Sony announced it would manufacture 1000 11-inch OLED TVs per month for market testing purposes.[100] On October 1, 2007, Sony announced that the 11-inch model, now called the XEL-1, would be released commercially;[95] the XEL-1 was first released in Japan in December 2007.[101]
In May 2007, Sony publicly unveiled a video of a 2.5-inch flexible OLED screen which is only 0.3 millimeters thick.[102] At the Display 2008 exhibition, Sony demonstrated a 0.2 mm thick 3.5 inch display with a resolution of 320×200 pixels and a 0.3 mm thick 11 inch display with 960×540 pixels resolution, one-tenth the thickness of the XEL-1.[103][104]
In July 2008, a Japanese government body said it would fund a joint project of leading firms, which is to develop a key technology to produce large, energy-saving organic displays. The project involves one laboratory and 10 companies including Sony Corp. NEDO said the project was aimed at developing a core technology to mass-produce 40 inch or larger OLED displays in the late 2010s.[105]
In October 2008, Sony published results of research it carried out with the Max Planck Institute over the possibility of mass-market bending displays, which could replace rigid LCDs and plasma screens. Eventually, bendable, transparent OLED screens could be stacked to produce 3D images with much greater contrast ratios and viewing angles than existing products.[106]
Sony exhibited a 24.5" prototype OLED 3D television during the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2010.[107]
In January 2011, Sony announced the PlayStation Vita handheld game console (the successor to the PSP) will feature a 5-inch OLED screen.[108]
On February 17, 2011, Sony announced its 25" OLED Professional Reference Monitor aimed at the Cinema and high end Drama Post Production market.[109]

*LG applications*

As of 2010, LG produces one model of OLED television, the 15 inch 15EL9500[110] and has announced a 31" OLED 3D television for March 2011[111] (however as of August 2011, the 31" product is still not available). LG plans a 55 inch prototype for 2012.


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

Hey canna take a look at GLH spectra 180 series, i reccomended the blackstar as supplemental lighting more for use WITH HPS than as a standalone, the blackstars have a bit of a yeild problem compared to the GLH 180's. Irish boy has a wonderful thread goin on them. Hes running the new models now which are using 3w leds now instead of 3 1w leds bunched together. If you are looking for more of a standalone panel setup to run I'd be looking at GLH nothin wrong with blackstar you just wont yeild as much as the GLH panels. Plus GLH is local in lancaster. Blackstar is New jersey . The one thing the blackstars do REALLY nice though is blast out the trichomes, im going to pick up a GLH panel soon here to run as a test i want to see if i get the same kind of trichome development as the blackstars and if i do im going to switch over to i think a combo of panels and H350 kessils. I got so many damn options its not even funny.

heres the link to irish boys thread with the new 180's he has links to his other grows in there and if you cant find em ask and he can link you to his old model 180 grow, they are still available BTW if you decide you want to run 1w LED's versus the 3w but i think the 3w will provide more penetration for your canopy. That being said he had EXCELLENT results with the first gen panels. https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/457978-irish-boys-return-inferno-spectra-35.html


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## Myles117 (Sep 17, 2011)

I've noticed you say how some LED system lack the UV light. couldnt you use a reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb alongside the UV lacking lights to eliminate that problem altogether? I use them with my lights since only MH puts out a good amount of UV and they work great. they only 26 watt CFLs 

just a thought


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

yes indeed you could, im leaving that up to canna to test since has the uber 1337 kessil booth with spinner goin on, lol he'll find out about kessil trichome production and how UV affects it. But yea i assume it would fix the problem, UNLESS uv put out by an LED style bulb is different than UV from reptile lamps. I do not know the answer to this though sir. That is a wizard question

and to be entirely frank i dont know for a fact that its UV that has brought down trichome production on the kessils, its a theory i have but i could be totally off. I dont have enough lights to test this since i have to have em all on my plants lol. No longer do i have access to 4 kessils and my panel oh man those were the days lol.


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## nog (Sep 17, 2011)

mine are crap, except for young clones.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

nog said:


> mine are crap, except for young clones.



what did this have to do with the original topic of the thread? If you dont have anything informative to post please post that in the other LED threads this is an LED thread for AMC and it needs to stay that way. Keep it informative or add something to the topic and your more than welcome here


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## Myles117 (Sep 17, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> yes indeed you could, im leaving that up to canna to test since has the uber 1337 kessil booth with spinner goin on, lol he'll find out about kessil trichome production and how UV affects it. But yea i assume it would fix the problem, UNLESS uv put out by an LED style bulb is different than UV from reptile lamps. I do not know the answer to this though sir. That is a wizard question
> 
> and to be entirely frank i dont know for a fact that its UV that has brought down trichome production on the kessils, its a theory i have but i could be totally off. I dont have enough lights to test this since i have to have em all on my plants lol. No longer do i have access to 4 kessils and my panel oh man those were the days lol.


iv read up on UV light and THC/trichome production and its pretty aweosme stuff. UV can damage the plants and hurt the seeds if exposed. Trichomes are made by the plant to protect it from several angles one of which is UV rays form the sun. More UV light has been shown to increase trichomes formed by plant but obviously you can overdo things artificially and damge the plant. 

just found this vid and thought it was pretty cool. may just have to get one after my first batch comes out an im paid 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jszZ2GuRmR8


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## brendan007 (Sep 17, 2011)

hi all i,m using a led 90w ufo light is this sufficient to bring on my girls.thanx in advance.


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> what did this have to do with the original topic of the thread? If you dont have anything informative to post please post that in the other LED threads this is an LED thread for AMC and it needs to stay that way. Keep it informative or add something to the topic and your more than welcome here


* sorry *FOLKS!.. capt kron can get a lil cranky on the net before his pornhub sessions.. so just leave him be.. LOL*


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

brendan007 said:


> hi all i,m using a led 90w ufo light is this sufficient to bring on my girls.thanx in advance.


*its sufficient enough to do both, tho its more heavy on veg than it is on bloom.. so yea, your ufo 90w is enough to start your LED journey 

--cheers

..btw, how many plants?


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> yes indeed you could, im leaving that up to canna to test since has the uber 1337 kessil booth with spinner goin on, lol he'll find out about kessil trichome production and how UV affects it. But yea i assume it would fix the problem, UNLESS uv put out by an LED style bulb is different than UV from reptile lamps. I do not know the answer to this though sir. That is a wizard question
> 
> and to be entirely frank i dont know for a fact that its UV that has brought down trichome production on the kessils, its a theory i have but i could be totally off. I dont have enough lights to test this since i have to have em all on my plants lol. No longer do i have access to 4 kessils and my panel oh man those were the days lol.


*uumm kron,,, is there a difference w/ a pound of feathers and a pound of butter..? aside from the obvious  ..uv is uv


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

Myles117 said:


> I've noticed you say how some LED system lack the UV light. couldnt you use a reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb alongside the UV lacking lights to eliminate that problem altogether? I use them with my lights since only MH puts out a good amount of UV and they work great. they only 26 watt CFLs
> 
> just a thought


*i started on repti bulbs, and Yes.. they work  gotta get atleast the 10.0 not 5.0.. 5.0 

--cheers


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## davoswavos (Sep 17, 2011)

no they are not the same 3w chips the 240 has 3 and 2watt chips that's my biggest problem with this forum is people talking out there asses when I post I always double maybe triple check to make sure I don't sound like an idiot maybe ya'll should try it sometime.


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

davoswavos said:


> no they are not the same 3w chips the 240 has 3 and 2watt chips that's my biggest problem with this forum is people talking out there asses when I post I always double maybe triple check to make sure I don't sound like an idiot maybe ya'll should try it sometime.


*if your talking about me, thanks.. everything i type up isnt checked, so its not true.. hence i never typed it  wink wink haha

--if your talking about capt kron,, fck it.. its true.. LMFAO


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## davoswavos (Sep 17, 2011)

yeah I'm late I guess I was back on 1st page maybe irrelevant now.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

And yet you make yourself sound like an idiot anyways because there is no 2w chips in a 240w blackstar..... thank you. please come again


davoswavos said:


> no they are not the same 3w chips the 240 has 3 and 2watt chips that's my biggest problem with this forum is people talking out there asses when I post I always double maybe triple check to make sure I don't sound like an idiot maybe ya'll should try it sometime.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

Yea imma be an asshole on this thread might as well let everyone know now but if i get one hint of bullshittery going on in here ill just have the thread locked. I really dont want it to be like every other LED thread on the face of the planet. So yea im gonna be a lil cranky til we can keep this thread on track. I already see it happening. lol

Is a 90w UFO enough for my plants? Thats a question not for this LED thread thank you. You should take a look around and do some more research on them in the other threads, they will tell you what you want to know.

THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR THAT. Lets keep it to advanced LED questions thanks.



cannawizard said:


> * sorry *FOLKS!.. capt kron can get a lil cranky on the net before his pornhub sessions.. so just leave him be.. LOL*


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## stoneyluv (Sep 17, 2011)

this is pasted from gotham's web page, is it bull or do they really use 2W chips?

"The BLACKSTAR line uses 2w and 3w chipsets, delivering the most powerful LED's in the world."


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

and when you call the owner and ask him what chips are in the 240 whats he going to tell u, they use 3w chips, its an old add from AGES ago, like 2009 



stoneyluv said:


> this is pasted from gotham's web page, is it bull or do they really use 2W chips?
> 
> "The BLACKSTAR line uses 2w and 3w chipsets, delivering the most powerful LED's in the world."


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## stoneyluv (Sep 17, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> and when you call the owner and ask him what chips are in the 240 whats he going to tell u, they use 3w chips, its an old add from AGES ago, like 2009


thanks for clearing that up. it seems there are a few MFG's with outdated web sites. I should trade web site maintenance for lights!!


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

haha theres a plan stoney do it up man i bet you could talk s1 into it lol


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## johnp410 (Sep 17, 2011)

Joedank said:


> blackstar it is then!! i was leaning that way but the wizard was getting me confused with his shiny new gear... glad you have had both awhile rep for you gangster!!


Blackstar 240w only pulls 133w, supposedly. Pretty good info either way. Heres the link http://bubbleponics.com/forum/showthread.php?2690-My-first-LED-grow!-Lighthouse-Blackstar-240W-side-by-side-with-Grow-LED-Hydro-240W


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

good link man

gotham claims the blackstar pulls 120 or at least he told me that on the phone, Nice to see that it draws a bit more.


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## johnp410 (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks I try, lol. Iv'e done cfl, wanna spend a little better money on led. I was seriously considering a 90w led (2 plants at the most). I know how you feel about this thread Kron, but seriously whats your opinion on this? Is there a dependable 90w that produces good, done research and it seems to me, the good weighs evenly with the bad. I really want led because of heat issues. Thanks.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

I can honoestly say no not that i have seen i heard that GLH had a 100w or something that was somewhat affordable? that is what i would look at, the blackstar one will work but not really for flower, the smallest i would go with blackstar would be a 240 becuase those smaller ones just arent puttin down the juice i mean they use the same led's and shit and same spectrum so the nug you get will be good just not as MUCH.


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## cannawizard (Sep 17, 2011)

*i put a my wants w/ blackstar.. and avdLED for 240s/300s  ...so blackstars & diamonds coming up  thnx for the gifts kron!


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 17, 2011)

lol let me know how those diamonds work out im interested in them, whats the price like on em right now for a 300? is that the size closest to a blackstar 240? cause its either that or its GLH man and im seriously leaning towards GLH right now. at the same time the thread that was posted made me feel better about my blackstar purchase too because the guy got very similar results but the GLH beat it out i think he said by about 15-20%


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## stoneyluv (Sep 17, 2011)

johnp410 said:


> Blackstar 240w only pulls 133w, supposedly. Pretty good info either way. Heres the link http://bubbleponics.com/forum/showthread.php?2690-My-first-LED-grow!-Lighthouse-Blackstar-240W-side-by-side-with-Grow-LED-Hydro-240W





Kaptain Kron said:


> good link man
> 
> gotham claims the blackstar pulls 120 or at least he told me that on the phone, Nice to see that it draws a bit more.


you guys are kinda both correct... the "light" part draws 120. the other 13W comes from the fans i believe.


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## virulient (Sep 18, 2011)

I wanted to clear something up about comparing a few of the most popular brands of LED lights. The Blackstar 240 advertises 240w, even though it only pushes ~120w. This is due to the fact that the Blackstar uses 80x3w LED's (and I actually think the 2 white ones are 2w). The GLH Spectra 180, however, advertises their true wattage. So even though there are 100x3w LED's (presumably 300 advertis-able watts), they opt to only advertise the true power draw. The AdvancedLED is similar to GLH, in that they advertise close to the "true" wattage, but they are not spot on. 

The point of this post was not to question the quality of the Blackstar, but to clear up the advertising discrepancies between the companies. When you match up the true wattage, the price, and efficiency of the 4-5 most popular brands are actually much closer than they seem. 

Food for thought at least, if you are looking to do a side-by-side, or if you are wondering why the Blackstar500 and the Spectra180 are around the same price. They are actually much closer to each other than it might appear at first glance.

Like I said, I'm not questioning the Blackstar lights in any way. They're proven. The way they market their product is peculiar is all. Also, I think it might be a popular mis-conception that Blackstar lights perform inferior to other lights the "same" wattage, when really the comparison may not have been fair in the first place. Thanks for reading!


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## virulient (Sep 18, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> and when you call the owner and ask him what chips are in the 240 whats he going to tell u, they use 3w chips, its an old add from AGES ago, like 2009


My intent isn't to prove you wrong, just want to prevent any mis-information. Lighthouse Hydro, which seems to be the parent company to Blackstar, lists the light as containing 2w LEDs and 3w(http://www.lighthousehydro.com/led-grow-lights/blackstar-240w-led-grow-light-3w-cree.html). I think I remember reading only a few of them are 2w, , (like just the white ones) but I'm having a hard time finding the source on that part. I will edit this and add the source if I can find it again. Cheers!


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

virulient said:


> My intent isn't to prove you wrong, just want to prevent any mis-information. Lighthouse Hydro, which seems to be the parent company to Blackstar, lists the light as containing 2w LEDs and 3w(http://www.lighthousehydro.com/led-grow-lights/blackstar-240w-led-grow-light-3w-cree.html). I think I remember reading only a few of them are 2w, , (like just the white ones) but I'm having a hard time finding the source on that part. I will edit this and add the source if I can find it again. Cheers!


*can someone figure out which is which, it seems like it there can be 2 models of the same thing? one w/ 2w & another w/ 3w??

--tootles


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## maxpesh (Sep 18, 2011)

Is anyone doing a grow with these ? http://grownorthern.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=17&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=12&vmcchk=1&Itemid=12

Would be interested in anyone's advise


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## Myles117 (Sep 18, 2011)

if anyone wants to give me an early xmas present id love one of these for my veg room 


http://www.lighthousehydro.com/led-grow-lights/90w-ultra-violet-led-grow-light-cree-1-watt-led-s-51.html


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

if there are any 2 watt led's it would be an insanely small amount all the red leds and blue ones i can gaurantee are 3w the 2011 models are all supposed to be 3w, owner said on the phone to me they are 3 watt so unless he played me.... I know your just trying to clear things up no worrys


cannawizard said:


> *can someone figure out which is which, it seems like it there can be 2 models of the same thing? one w/ 2w & another w/ 3w??
> 
> --tootles


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

Ok there have been questions asked about what led's better in this thread lets stop that please not what this thread is for i will not be discussing panels in here in that aspect, discuss what you use already and if you dont already have an led and are growin with one your welcome to follow along like myles but lets not ask questions like this because this is the opening shot in a huge argument even though i know thats not what you meant it to be. I know your just after info, That kind of info can be had in the other LED threads this thread is in AMC for a reason.


maxpesh said:


> Is anyone doing a grow with these ? http://grownorthern.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=17&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=12&vmcchk=1&Itemid=12
> 
> Would be interested in anyone's advise


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## XxM1k3YxX (Sep 18, 2011)

Question. If LED's make use of UV light so much, why isn't that the same as throwing a black lite in the grow room?


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

ah now theres a good question, who said that it wasnt the same? hehe led's do provide boosted uv over hps setups, however they also provide other spectrums that HPS can't hit with an hps you can only use 20% of the light put out by the light with an led its 90% plus usable light put out by the light making it more efficient. Uv is just part of that spectrum



XxM1k3YxX said:


> Question. If LED's make use of UV light so much, why isn't that the same as throwing a black litled;e in the grow room?


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## stoneyluv (Sep 18, 2011)

unsubscribed


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## Myles117 (Sep 18, 2011)

LOL dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

lol ok bye


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## puffenuff (Sep 18, 2011)

Hey, glad I found a new LED thread! I've been using LEDs for about a year now and I love this new way of growing. The quality of my bud has never been so high with such minimal effort, it's been truly amazing. The lights I'm using come from AdvancedLED. I have one 3w extreme flower model and one of their new Diamond series models. Both are excellent, quality lights. My setup consists of the 3w 180w, the 200w Diamond, and 2 15w far red spotlights. The new diamond series panel has three different modes that you can switch between for different spectrums: one veg (blue heavy), one bloom (red heavy) and one full spectrum. I've been running in full spectrum while I allow myself to do more research on the different modes. Here's two idea's I'm thinking about testing and haven't found much research on:

1. In flowering -- Run full spectrum for 10 hours and bloom mode for last 2 hours of each day. My thoughts on this is that the red heavy lights might simulate the red and pink skies of dusk better.
OR
2. In flowering -- Run full spectrum for all 12 hours, but during the final 2 weeks or so, switch to the bloom heavy mode. My thoughts on this are that the red heavy is "most" important for flower development so hit them hard with what they need the most at the time they put on the most weight.

I also wanted to talk about the use of far red spotlights. Far red spectrum (~720nm) is supposed to promote flowering and increase flower density. I've done a few tests and it appears that it does have some effect; however, too much exposure will cause the leaves to feel more paper-like, but that's the only downside I've noticed. I've also read research that far red light exposure will change the chemical reaction that occurs when the plants transition from daylight to darkness -- without too much science explanation, it keeps the same daylight chemicals active for about two more hours while the lights are off effectively allowing the plants to think they are still under light...something like that.

I realize I didn't pose any questions, and some of you may ask for my sources which I will not go back and look up for you. Please feel free to take this into consideration and respond with any questions or input that you may have on any of the things I've mentioned.

Should be a good thread here! Keep everyone in line Kapn Kron haha


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

good job puff yea were strugglin to keep it clean in here we dont want the drama from the other threads spilling over into here we dont care if your using a chinese pos panel or a 1500$ beast of a panel. Its all about learning the growiing characteristics of the lights in here and how to maximize our yeild and quality with this new tech we are playing with.


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## XxM1k3YxX (Sep 18, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> ah now theres a good question, who said that it wasnt the same? hehe led's do provide boosted uv over hps setups, however they also provide other spectrums that HPS can't hit with an hps you can only use 20% of the light put out by the light with an led its 90% plus usable light put out by the light making it more efficient. Uv is just part of that spectrum


So In theory I could throw the black lite in with my hps and it'd be adding a new light spectrum, thats similar to LED's?


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

not similar per say, you could run a mh bulb to supplement UV spectrum to your HPS setup if you wanted, or run uv bulbs, i suppose its somewhat similar but its only a very SMALL part of LED's


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## XxM1k3YxX (Sep 18, 2011)

SO what about those LED panel you see on ebay that are like 35 bucks and say 225 with red blue white and orange are those any good?


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

ok again your asking questions this thread isn't for thats a question for the regular LED thread. This thread is for people who are growing with led's and want help maximizing yield and quality. Not getting into panel discussions but since your asking about an ebay panel ill save you the time, its crap dont buy it if its only 35 bucks. Stick to topic please


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## XxM1k3YxX (Sep 18, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> ok again your asking questions this thread isn't for thats a question for the regular LED thread. This thread is for people who are growing with led's and want help maximizing yield and quality. Not getting into panel discussions but since your asking about an ebay panel ill save you the time, its crap dont buy it if its only 35 bucks. Stick to topic please


 Sorry :3 Nd thanks!


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

no problem


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

*hahaha some bitch ass hater rated your thread donw... these RIU chumps luv your no nonsense LED info.. lol

--RIU should have an EMO thread under toke n talk.. so all the haters / fanboys / yodaNoobs / nuttsackjockies can get together and sing kumba'ya


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

haahahahah fuckin wizard hhahahaha lol



cannawizard said:


> *hahaha some bitch ass hater rated your thread donw... these RIU chumps luv your no nonsense LED info.. lol
> 
> --RIU should have an EMO thread under toke n talk.. so all the haters / fanboys / yodaNoobs / nuttsackjockies can get together and sing kumba'ya


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

*i got some <3 coming your threads way.. got a LED sponsor.. gonna pump a 20k LED grow... wow i must be really high..  --lets see where this goes...

--into the rabbit hole, Alice!!


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

wtf u beast you lol HOOK IT UP hahaha can i be a nug tester at the end? lol 



cannawizard said:


> *i got some <3 coming your threads way.. got a LED sponsor.. gonna pump a 20k LED grow... wow i must be really high..  --lets see where this goes...
> 
> --into the rabbit hole, Alice!!


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## Lucius Vorenus (Sep 18, 2011)

Whats the best LED's to use for a 4x6 room with 6 plants? Under $800-900


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

I swear to GOD IM GOING TO FUCKING SLAP U IN THE FACE WITH MY FUCKING COCK READ THE FUCKING OP THIS IS NOT A FUCKING THREAD TO TELL YOU LED NOOBS WHAT FUCKIN LIGHT TO BUY THERES A BILLION THREADS THAT YOU CAN GO AND FUCKIN ARGUE ABOUT THIS SHIT IN. THIS IS NOT THE FUCKING PLACE TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

If you got questions it better be about growing with your led, not what fucking led do i buy.

Canna put the fuckin ban hammer down on the next fucker to ask what LED to buy in here please for the love of GOD WHY DO PEOPLE NOT FUCKING READ!!!



Lucius Vorenus said:


> Whats the best LED's to use for a 4x6 room with 6 plants? Under $800-900


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## FootClan (Sep 18, 2011)

cary schellie said:


> why would anyone use led when t5s are cheaper and just as cool????????????


led usering dont like it when you say stuff like that ....lol dont you guys already have a 900 page thread on this very subject?? not enough ego boosting for one thread need another one too? here comes the hammer down....yikes


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

go troll s1 elses thread asshole, this isnt about ego boosting this thread was made to get away from the bullshit of teh other threads and your bringing it over here. Were not baggin on your precious HID's in here nor are we comparing them, this thread is for LED USERS!! so if you dont use an LED GET THE FUCK OUT


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

FootClan said:


> led usering dont like it when you say stuff like that ....lol dont you guys already have a 900 page thread on this very subject?? not enough ego boosting for one thread need another one too? here comes the hammer down....yikes


*why are you here??


**and there is no BAN HAMMER.. all sarcasm... sorry, even trolls are allowed here also  --capt RIU has ignore features.. please use them


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## virulient (Sep 18, 2011)

SO ABOUT THESE LED GROWS!! lol. I'm very excited we finally have someone here that has hands-on experience with the Diamond Series!!!!

About the Blackstar 2w vs 3w issue, I think when he says "The BLACKSTAR line uses 2w and 3w chipsets, delivering the most powerful LED's in the world." he means he has models that feature both 2w and 3w LEDs exclusively, and that they're not mixed. Very confusing wording there, and pretty much every vendor website that I can find. Nonetheless, the Blackstar 240w flowering light, from what I can tell, DOES in fact utilize all 3w LEDs. 

Apologies to anyone I confused with my mis-information!! Very confusing wording there!
























ok maybe I was high


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

virulient said:


> SO ABOUT THESE LED GROWS!! lol. I'm very excited we finally have someone here that has hands-on experience with the Diamond Series!!!!


*sit back.. the light shows are about to start... Enjoy

--if theres a bit of a delay.. thats cause we are potheads.. we can only balance so much... LMFAO


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

lol damn right wizy lol, thanks for that info virulent, his wording on adds is confusing. I am also waiting for canna to show wats crackin with the diamond series lights. Also waitin for him to send me some poo lol hurry up with that im goin def over here bro lol


cannawizard said:


> *sit back.. the light shows are about to start... Enjoy
> 
> --if theres a bit of a delay.. thats cause we are potheads.. we can only balance so much... LMFAO


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## virulient (Sep 18, 2011)

haha, You guys. I'm so glad I found RIU!


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## FootClan (Sep 18, 2011)

i cant stay away i want to be saved from my HID lights.....please save me


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

FootClan said:


> i cant stay away i want to be saved from my HID lights.....please save me


*i will try Foot, as long as you and kron dont kill each other in the process ... lmfao


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## FootClan (Sep 18, 2011)

just the mirror sight of my avator throws him into a fit i know........lol ill behaive


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

FootClan said:


> just the mirror sight of my avator throws him into a fit i know........lol ill behaive


no its your asanine and ignorant behavior that does, if you wanna tag along and actually not just run your mouth just to hear yourself talk please feel free. But if your here to troll this thread like you have single LED thread on this forum that pops up then i would appreciate it if you would take it elswhere.


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

*sweet.. now you both have kissed and made-up... lets get back to the subect at hand..


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

fuckin wiz lol what did kessil hook u up with brotha you sneaky sneaky man


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> fuckin wiz lol what did kessil hook u up with brotha you sneaky sneaky man


*dude.. ninja!?... duh? hahaha

--let me just post some pics first then we can go from there.. hehe.. gotta luv suspense..


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

err yea you had me suspended for like a week now on poo lol im still rackin my brains on ratios lol damn you for making me think i have ADD and too many things going on as it is now im forgettin shit damnit lol. I BLAME YOU!!!


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> err yea you had me suspended for like a week now on poo lol im still rackin my brains on ratios lol damn you for making me think i have ADD and too many things going on as it is now im forgettin shit damnit lol. I BLAME YOU!!!


[video=youtube;0tdsL4kvp_I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tdsL4kvp_I[/video]


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## Myles117 (Sep 18, 2011)

LOL Mr krabs


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

rofl lol hahhahhaa


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 18, 2011)

THIS IS SERIOUS MAN MY PLANTS ARE NUT DEF lol not really tho just a lil on one haha


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## cannawizard (Sep 18, 2011)

*ppl.. its serious.. kron is finally.. seriously.. loosing it... 

rofl


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## Lucius Vorenus (Sep 18, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> I swear to GOD IM GOING TO FUCKING SLAP U IN THE FACE WITH MY FUCKING COCK READ THE FUCKING OP THIS IS NOT A FUCKING THREAD TO TELL YOU LED NOOBS WHAT FUCKIN LIGHT TO BUY THERES A BILLION THREADS THAT YOU CAN GO AND FUCKIN ARGUE ABOUT THIS SHIT IN. THIS IS NOT THE FUCKING PLACE TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.
> 
> If you got questions it better be about growing with your led, not what fucking led do i buy.
> 
> Canna put the fuckin ban hammer down on the next fucker to ask what LED to buy in here please for the love of GOD WHY DO PEOPLE NOT FUCKING READ!!!


So which one is the best one to buy I wonder.

Anyone??


=)


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## virulient (Sep 19, 2011)

ahahahahahahahaha. But seriously, Kron is going to eat your face.


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## squarepush3r (Sep 19, 2011)

wtb LED subforum


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## virulient (Sep 19, 2011)

squarepush3r said:


> wtb LED subforum


X__________________

This is me signing the petition for an LED sub-forum!


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

*i will voice this to the boss  no worries


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## virulient (Sep 19, 2011)

I like the sounds of that! https://www.rollitup.org/make-your-requests/452636-can-we-get-led-lighting.html Here's a post on the subject, too.


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

virulient said:


> I like the sounds of that! https://www.rollitup.org/make-your-requests/452636-can-we-get-led-lighting.html Here's a post on the subject, too.


*L.E.D is in IMHO.. "advanced".. so im gonna petition it under AMC


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## virulient (Sep 19, 2011)

I honestly couldn't complain as long as it was somewhere 


You know Kron is going to kill us for hijacking his thread!!


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

virulient said:


> I honestly couldn't complain as long as it was somewhere


*well i just voiced it, under the staff section.. could go either if it was "approved" (indoor light/AMC)

--cheers


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## virulient (Sep 19, 2011)

Nice! Thanks, now we have a shot at least!


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## stelthy (Sep 19, 2011)

What is the verdict on Obelux LED ? the one pictured above is meant to flash on and off but I am sure with a bit of precision modding the thing could be used in say.. A Grow-Room   

Below I have added a LINK to the site I found it on :-



http://cleantechnica.com/2010/09/04/this-brilliant-led-is-20000-times-more-powerful/




The blurb reads as follows :-

In a truly staggering breakthrough in LED intensity that will have wide ramifications on electricity use worldwide, the Finnish LED producer Obelux has developed by far the most powerful LED of all time.
In response to aviation industry requests, Obelux created a flashing High Intensity LED that delivers 200,000 candelas. Current technology in the aviation beacon lighting field delivers just 10 candelas. This marks an incredible 20,000-fold improvement on the old Xenon technology.
These will be installed on over 150 meter tall buildings and masts, replacing the flashing red aviation obstacle lights that are currently in place on masts and tall buildings to warn airplanes. Boosting brightness even further, they will be in groups of three, so that each can deliver 600,000 candelas.
Energy consumption? Just 350 watts!
Surprisingly, the aviation need for better lights is actually greatest during daytime, in fog and cloud cover. This breakthrough greatly improves daytime aviation safety in poor visibility conditions.
So that they don&#8217;t create night time light pollution, the incredibly brilliant LEDs can be dimmed to as low as 2,000 candelas, while still vastly improving the visibility of obstacles, compared with today&#8217;s 10 candela warning lights.
The new LEDs meet Federal Aviation Administration and International Civil Aviation Organization regulations and will be available for the industry in January 2011. (tech data pdf)
Not only are these much brighter, but they will deliver over ten years of reliable life, which also contrasts with the yearly maintenance now needed by the traditional Xenon aviation lighting technology.
Aviation lighting is a specialized market, where extreme weather conditions effects the structure and design of these LEDs, but this technology jump will surely have huge ramifications in the general lighting market.
The company &#8211; which in typically droll Finnish understatement describes itself on its website as &#8220;solvent&#8221; &#8211; is not just a leader in making LEDs for specialized industries, but also in lighting for architecture.
With this advance in technology, the incandescent light bulb, which has so long been a unit of measure of both our carbon footprint and of our intelligence, is about to become as much a historical artifact as gas-lighting.
Source: Clean Technica 

I've also looked into high powered LEDs meant for the under-side of ships to view the Oceans floor's and cant help but wonder if anyone on RIU has ventured down this path and with what results?

The Led panel pic'd above is only 350w what are all y'all thoughts on this and the more industrial line of LEDs? - STELTHY


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

stelthy said:


> What is the verdict on Obelux LED ? the one pictured above is meant to flash on and off but I am sure with a bit of precision modding the thing could be used in say.. A Grow-Room
> 
> Below I have added a LINK to the site I found it on :-
> 
> ...


*wowza thats a LED monster waiting to be unleashed... lol.. looks very promising


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## virulient (Sep 19, 2011)

I think that technology is a few years off from being reasonably affordable (this coming from a guy who thinks a couple grand for the right light is reasonable). That being said, man, this looks impressive!! Very exciting stuff, I just think it's a ways away from us, sadly. Awesome post at any rate! Thanks for the info, very intriguing.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

you hijacking bastards lol nah not really lol its all good, I DEMAND LED SUB SECTION IN AMC!! lol, i honestly think LED is advanced you put it in indoor growing your gonna have way too many people who have done no research or read any of the current threads askin questions.


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> you hijacking bastards lol nah not really lol its all good, I DEMAND LED SUB SECTION IN AMC!! lol, i honestly think LED is advanced you put it in indoor growing your gonna have way too many people who have done no research or read any of the current threads askin questions.


*we can only hope for the best... haha.. you heard it.. hope


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

lol i hope to god they dont assign mods that know NOTHING about LED's lol that would drive me nuts.


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## FootClan (Sep 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> no its your asanine and ignorant behavior that does, if you wanna tag along and actually not just run your mouth just to hear yourself talk please feel free. But if your here to troll this thread like you have single LED thread on this forum that pops up then i would appreciate it if you would take it elswhere.


lol whatever your a dick


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

Im sorry you feel that way, i cant help it if it makes me a dick to state the truth.


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

*ill let you two go @t it, till somebody gets butthurt,, then someone will QQ.. then someone will leave.. and everything will be A-okay..

--heres the weapons.. enjoy

**popcorn..


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## FootClan (Sep 19, 2011)

i was going leave it be but he had to jump in callin me names again....lol so F*ck him its his theard not mine if he thinks hes punishing me by filling it with BS arguments with me then thats a laugh...So you wanna be a dick after i let it die so be it.....


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## hoss12781 (Sep 19, 2011)

virulient said:


> I think that technology is a few years off from being reasonably affordable (this coming from a guy who thinks a couple grand for the right light is reasonable). That being said, man, this looks impressive!! Very exciting stuff, I just think it's a ways away from us, sadly. Awesome post at any rate! Thanks for the info, very intriguing.


Upfront yes very expensive. Average it out over the long haul (if you're lights are under a 3 year or more warranty) and with power savings, reduced cost of electricity, and the money you would have spent replacing HPS or CFL bulbs and possibly ballasts over that period and it averages itself out. Used to use 2 400w hps plus heavy cfl side lighting. Switched to all LED (690w of actual output), totally replaced the old rig and the resulting product is equal in terms of weight and slightly better in quality. 

To speak to the argument earlier - is it better to have several smaller wattage panels vs. one larger. For my garden I'd rather have more smaller (130-200w actual output still using 3w chipsets) panels for the modular set up. I only grow four autos at a time and when one is done and can refocus my lights on the remaining plants (see pic)


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

your 100% correct about more panels man, i've come to realize optimum actual output from a panel style setup is going to be between 130-200watts perfect size, irish boys proved it over and over i've proved it to myself. Its why i like kessils so much what they give me even for the small footprint is more than worth it. So modular its not even funny.



hoss12781 said:


> View attachment 1795005
> 
> Upfront yes very expensive. Average it out over the long haul (if you're lights are under a 3 year or more warranty) and with power savings, reduced cost of electricity, and the money you would have spent replacing HPS or CFL bulbs and possibly ballasts over that period and it averages itself out. Used to use 2 400w hps plus heavy cfl side lighting. Switched to all LED (690w of actual output), totally replaced the old rig and the resulting product is equal in terms of weight and slightly better in quality.
> 
> To speak to the argument earlier - is it better to have several smaller wattage panels vs. one larger. For my garden I'd rather have more smaller (130-200w actual output still using 3w chipsets) panels for the modular set up. I only grow four autos at a time and when one is done and can refocus my lights on the remaining plants (see pic)


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

lol when did i call you names your funny, if i recall your the one who called me a dick, i merely stated i must be a dick for telling the truth then. Punishing you LOL your a great laugh man, the fact that you think i would get some sort of satisfaction out of trying to punish you is asanine. The only time i ever get satisfaction from punishing s1 is with skin on skin contact, and childish arguments will never draw me into such tom foolery. You would have to threaten my family for that. The fact that you think im punishing you and that im filling the thread with pointless arguments with you is enough to keep me red in the face laughing for days man. your too much



FootClan said:


> i was going leave it be but he had to jump in callin me names again....lol so F*ck him its his theard not mine if he thinks hes punishing me by filling it with BS arguments with me then thats a laugh...So you wanna be a dick after i let it die so be it.....


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## virulient (Sep 19, 2011)

hoss12781 said:


> View attachment 1795005
> 
> Upfront yes very expensive. Average it out over the long haul (if you're lights are under a 3 year or more warranty) and with power savings, reduced cost of electricity, and the money you would have spent replacing HPS or CFL bulbs and possibly ballasts over that period and it averages itself out. Used to use 2 400w hps plus heavy cfl side lighting. Switched to all LED (690w of actual output), totally replaced the old rig and the resulting product is equal in terms of weight and slightly better in quality.
> 
> To speak to the argument earlier - is it better to have several smaller wattage panels vs. one larger. For my garden I'd rather have more smaller (130-200w actual output still using 3w chipsets) panels for the modular set up. I only grow four autos at a time and when one is done and can refocus my lights on the remaining plants (see pic)


Most definitely! When I said overpriced, I meant that light in particular. I would assume they're using fewer, way more powerful LED's than the 3w we use in our grow rooms. Which could mean much better penetration by the light, but, unfortunately, as you go up past 3w LED's the price starts increasing exponentially. I DO agree with everything you said though, about the 3w LED's were using to grow as of now.


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## puffenuff (Sep 19, 2011)

Dude, no offense but we should not be relying on irishboy's journals for anything because they fucking blow. They prove nothing other than that he's in bed with GLH.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

ummmmm ok so just because s1 has bought a lot of panels from s1 that means hes in bed with them who cares man, what are you saying that his pics are photoshopped or are you just scared to admit that GLH has a worthwile product now. They used to suck, why i bought my blackstar, but irish was fuckin with em then and not gettin amazing results then he got a new panel design and started doin better i been followin him since before you even had an inkling he was in bed with GLH who cares if he does business with them.

I can tell you i doubt hes photoshopping those pics. Or are you going to accuse him of something more hanus like supplememnting with HPS and then takin pics with only the panels hung. 

The better job you do the more haters there always are.

I dont see how you could say his journal blows, i saw some pretty good lookin nug in there.

Not only that i think you miss the point of this thread sir, we are not here to say GLH is better than whatever panel you happen to be using i referenced his grow because he grows with LED"s regardless of who hes in bed with. Hes getting results using them. How does he mix his soil, compared to normal soil for HPS and shit like that. Thats what this thread is about man not saying GLH is teh shit or somthing or GO BUY GLH over everything else. I dont care what panel you use if its ebay crap or a 1800$ beast. You still need to change your growing style to grow with led's and that is what this thread is about or has that been forgotten already i just am getting tired of pointing it out, you guys want to argue like a bunch of children about who has the best panel go ahead but do it on led users unite or some shit like that not here its not what thiis thread was made for.


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## virulient (Sep 19, 2011)

puffenuff said:


> Dude, no offense but we should not be relying on irishboy's journals for anything because they fucking blow. They prove nothing other than that he's in bed with GLH.


Irishboy's got nothin on the wizard!

Seriously though, there are hundreds of other LED grow journals online if you don't like a particular grower. That being said, I assume you say Irishboy is in bed with GLH because he said he can get discounts on their products for thread-followers. He most likely saw another person's post, on a different website (I won't link in interest of not advertising for a competing forum), where the GLH owner worked directly with the growers, offered discounts to anyone who mentioned his name, and eventually hooked the guy up with multiple free lights to continue testing with. Irishboy, I assume, was simply trying to setup a similar situation for us at RIU. I think we should be thanking him for his hard work, research, and STILL caring enough to setup something beneficial for all of us.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

Hey now lol i'd be careful sayin stuff like that the wiz is more humble than you may think hes just starting with these leds too. It wont be long before hes blowin us all out the water tho, more money dirt over there lol gettin all his crazy equipment.


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## puffenuff (Sep 19, 2011)

Lol a tad bit defensive over irish aren't we? I'm just saying his journals are terribly written with very little science backing the stuff he says. Don't tell me that you know how long i've been looking at his grows...i've been following his "sponsored" grows since 09 and it was evident then that he was a GLH promoter. I'm not going to make any accusations about supplementing hps to boost his results or photoshop the pics, not even sure where you got that from? Why should I be scared that glh lights are good products? I don't fear technology lol. Pretty nugs, yes. Shitty journal, yes. I give him props for being a decent grower, but he is not some led weed mastermind that demands my respect and his journals are written like a first grader that english is their secondary language.


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## puffenuff (Sep 19, 2011)

And my comment wasn't about glh lights. It was about irish's journal and how I believe it holds no real value.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

ok man i got nothin against that im just sayin the way you stated it sounded like you had a bit of a grudge or something against those panels, i still dont see how you could say it holds no real value, maybe as a journal for unbiased comparison of panels its no real value but hes still growin with led's and it takes certain techniques to succeed properly in doing so he obviously must know some of them or be refining some of them as i have been or he wouldnt be using leds at all. LED's takes a different style to grow than HPS this is what this thread is meant to be about. Referencing irishs journal in that light, i dont see how your comment makes sense is all.



puffenuff said:


> And my comment wasn't about glh lights. It was about irish's journal and how I believe it holds no real value.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

im not arguing most of these points with you i just think your being a little bit harsh and judgmental considering the topic this thread is on and in the light that i referenced him. Ill agree with you he types a shitty journal. Next time just clarify that a bit more cause you came off pretty harsh considering the topic of this thread, if we were discussing manufacturers of lights i would see how him being in bed with GLH had more to do with the topic but in this case it was off topic.



puffenuff said:


> Lol a tad bit defensive over irish aren't we? I'm just saying his journals are terribly written with very little science backing the stuff he says. Don't tell me that you know how long i've been looking at his grows...i've been following his "sponsored" grows since 09 and it was evident then that he was a GLH promoter. I'm not going to make any accusations about supplementing hps to boost his results or photoshop the pics, not even sure where you got that from? Why should I be scared that glh lights are good products? I don't fear technology lol. Pretty nugs, yes. Shitty journal, yes. I give him props for being a decent grower, but he is not some led weed mastermind that demands my respect and his journals are written like a first grader that english is their secondary language.


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> ok man i got nothin against that im just sayin the way you stated it sounded like you had a bit of a grudge or something against those panels, i still dont see how you could say it holds no real value, maybe as a journal for unbiased comparison of panels its no real value but hes still growin with led's and it takes certain techniques to succeed properly in doing so he obviously must know some of them or be refining some of them as i have been or he wouldnt be using leds at all. LED's takes a different style to grow than HPS this is what this thread is meant to be about. Referencing irishs journal in that light, i dont see how your comment makes sense is all.


*kill them with kindness.. it works.. why do you think they shot gandhi in the face.. dude was wearing flipflops and sheets.. --- cause it works.. it drives morons insane..


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## virulient (Sep 19, 2011)

You won't find Irishboy's journals published in any Horticulture textbooks. That being said, they're not worthless by any means. There IS a middle ground. Grow journals don't need complete scientific data to be useful. Could he run more tests and publish the results? Yea. Could he spend more time making his posts more present-able? Yea. Are his posts completely garbage because he DIDN'T do these things? No.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

thank u that is all i was trying to say really. I know going into reading all his posts to take them with a grain of salt because of his GLH leanings, just like if you read most of my threads where i talk about LED's i talke about kessil and BS because i know them the best, but it by no means means that they are the best lights. They could be, yet to be proven though. I comment on other manufacturers but i wont make definitive statements unless i've used the panel or helped s1 using one of them grow something. First hand experience only.



virulient said:


> You won't find Irishboy's journals published in any Horticulture textbooks. That being said, they're not worthless by any means. There IS a middle ground. Grow journals don't need complete scientific data to be useful. Could he run more tests and publish the results? Yea. Could he spend more time making his posts more present-able? Yea. Are his posts completely garbage because he DIDN'T do these things? No.


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## puffenuff (Sep 19, 2011)

Fair enough, you guys like his journals and I don't. I guess it sounded harsh because I feel like however helpful they may be to some, they really dont "prove" anything; it's all him fumbling around trying to figure stuff out. Just remember that what works for irish isn't necessarily the led grower's law.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

totally concur on that they PROVE nothing. But thats ok man for some people its enough te get an idea what its like to get started. Course its not LED growers law thats what this thread is for remember  figuring out the best way to grow with led's period, whatever led u may be using.



puffenuff said:


> Fair enough, you guys like his journals and I don't. I guess it sounded harsh because I feel like however helpful they may be to some, they really dont "prove" anything; it's all him fumbling around trying to figure stuff out. Just remember that what works for irish isn't necessarily the led grower's law.


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## FootClan (Sep 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> no its your asanine and ignorant behavior that does, if you wanna tag along and actually not just run your mouth just to hear yourself talk please feel free. But if your here to troll this thread like you have single LED thread on this forum that pops up then i would appreciate it if you would take it elswhere.


lets see you called me Asanine and ignorant then you refered to me as Troll..... LOL like hello ??????? thats not names?? like i said i let it die and you still had to jump in and be a f*cking dick.....I made a funny comment that was true you cant stand me and the sight of my avator pissess you off i didnt dig in and start more shit i ended it with a funny line and you had to bring it back so im back now.....


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## DrFever (Sep 19, 2011)

i would seriuosly like to try LED but there so dam fckin expensive for anything with real power


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

sorry for stating facts, you trolled other threads, asanine and ignorant comments there, so sorry that i assumed you were going do the same things here. Its all i've seen you do in any LED thread, so sorry for assuming what has been known to be fact up until now. Your comment was not funny sorry you thought it was it was just a comment it didnt make me laugh as much as your last comment. I cant help the fact that you acted asanine and ignorant in those other threads. Its too late for that, if you want to change the publics opinion of you then maybe you should act a little differently is all i can say. I dont see how me quoting a fact is being a "fucking dick" also your first post in this thread was already trolling it so how could i not assume that? 


FootClan said:


> led usering dont like it when you say stuff like that ....lol dont you guys already have a 900 page thread on this very subject?? not enough ego boosting for one thread need another one too? here comes the hammer down....yikes


thats all i have to say man it put everyone off of anything you may have had to add that could have been helpful to the thread, i honestly have nothing against you personally i have a problem with the attitude you take in every LED thread i've seen you in. Its rude, onoxious and inflamitory and when i say those things lets be straight so you dont get offended again i speak only on the times when you come at people with things like the above quoted with that kind of attitude. Its not helpful and of course its going to turn people off to what you have to say man.

Im sorry that these facts have upset your day enough that you feel you need to come in here and talk trash to me to make yourself feel better. If you have any questions regarding LED's that are not shots to try to gain a reaction please feel free to post away and wiz me or s1 else will try to answer them to the best of our abilities. But if you keep comn in here the way you did with that first post its not going to help keep this thread clean and informative. If you want to have a shit talking contest with me we can make a thread if you would like called footclan v kaptain where you can bash me all day if it helps you out. I wont be participating in it though, this thread was made for informative thought on LED growing not arguments.



FootClan said:


> lets see you called me Asanine and ignorant then you refered to me as Troll..... LOL like hello ??????? thats not names?? like i said i let it die and you still had to jump in and be a f*cking dick.....I made a funny comment that was true you cant stand me and the sight of my avator pissess you off i didnt dig in and start more shit i ended it with a funny line and you had to bring it back so im back now.....


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## Green Dave (Sep 19, 2011)

Its easy guys 
If you dont like the thread then leave
The guy started a thread let him be
Its all info some good some not so much deside for your self there are no Laws in growing trial and error 
So lets all play nice


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

*i just read a bunch of garbage.. thought this was a thread full of LED intellectuals.... lol?


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## dannyboy602 (Sep 19, 2011)

Didn't read whole thread. Tomorrow def. 
Here's a pic of my LED grow. Threw in some T5's for support of lower canopy. Those bitches stretched man.
Running 3 Blackstar 600's
Growing mostly Midnight Kush.
it's all in my journal.
Sub'd
[/URL


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

your image didnt come through great, but it looks good from how small of an image it is. Ill go check out the journal, lookin around right now for somthing interesting LED related to post. Been too much BS going on in here and not enough carrying on of the thread.


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## Myles117 (Sep 19, 2011)

danny your grow looks great! only suggestion id have is to flip t5s 90 degrees so they run their long way down the row of plants. might get better coverage that way. can't wait to see how big the buds will get with all that LED and then the t5s in addition


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

Ok heres some good general info i found to follow that some of you may or may not know already about LED's. Remember they can produce UP TO 90% less heat than a typical HID setup, so there are a few good things to know about how to take measure against mold mildew and otherwise way too long in between feedings. This is copy pasted from a website, its all good pertinant information excluding something i will highlight as unconfirmed KEEP ENVIRONMENTAL TEMPERATURES IN THE RANGE OF 70°-80°F (lower temperatures = slower plant 
growth) you should also monitor the root zone temperature. When switching from a traditional plant lamp to LED 
growing light it may be necessary to add room heat or even a heat mat under your plants. Plants grow slower with 
less blooming when their environment temperature falls below 70° F. If gardening without any sunlight- hybrid 
systems are recommended for maximum growth rates.
 

LOOK OUT FOR OVERWATERING! (less heat from the light source = less water loss to evaporation) over watering 
will slow root development, which will slow and stunt growth. Over watering will also cause nutrient uptake issues (you 
are feeding your plant right?). Aeroponic and hydroponic systems will reduce your chances of over watering. Water 
plants once, then let them run low on water. This will establish the water usage for your plants when using LED plant 
lights versus natural sunlight or traditional grow lights. Maintain this new watering schedule. Keeping the root 
medium water saturated, equals no need for plant to develop a larger root system, which equals stomata closure, 
slow and stunted growth, and symptoms of over watering. (For indoor growing- using a small amount of high heat 
traditional lighting such as metal halide bulbs will help water to evaporate.)


Use a more porous medium, which will provide more oxygen to roots, giving a higher plant metabolism.

In commercial growing, monitor your CO2 levels. LED lights emit a large amount of absorbed light energy, which may 
require slight augmentation of CO2 levels (typically 300-500 PPM). Remember that although the LED grow lights 
may not appear bright to you- the wavelengths provide an intense light source for your plants.

Start with a lower amount of nutrient (400-600 PPM) or 1/2 the recommended amount. On fruiting plants: reduced 
photoperiod, equals plant stress, which equals more flowering.

*If your plants are grown indoors, without supplemental light, some plants such as tomatoes may benefit from the 
addition of a single GE 60 watt soft-white light placed anywhere in the room with the plants. This provides a boost in 
some wavelengths of light which will encourage fruiting. If there is no natural lighting available, LED/HPS (or metal 
halide bulbs) in hybrid systems are recommended for some applications.
*
this bolded section is unconfirmed by me so you may or may not want to disregard this part about a soft white bulb.

Too close will stunt growth, too far will cause stretching. When raising or lowering the LEDs, move them a few 
inches at a time and allow time to transition before moving again.

If you&#8217;re using the &#8220;professional&#8221; type LED grow light product, you may have noticed that one or more of the LEDs in 
each light cluster appears to not be lit. This is perfectly normal for this advanced product. Light comes in many 
wavelengths. Humans can only see a very limited range of light wavelengths. Over 60% of the 
light emitted for LEDs in gardening is not visible to the human eye. Plants have a preference for light wavelengths 
humans can&#8217;t see. Why do most plants look green to us? It&#8217;s because the plant is reflecting the wavelengths of white 
light (mostly yellow and green light), and absorbing the rest of the light wavelengths.


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> Ok heres some good general info i found to follow that some of you may or may not know already about LED's. Remember they can produce UP TO 90% less heat than a typical HID setup, so there are a few good things to know about how to take measure against mold mildew and otherwise way too long in between feedings. This is copy pasted from a website, its all good pertinant information excluding something i will highlight as unconfirmed KEEP ENVIRONMENTAL TEMPERATURES IN THE RANGE OF 70°-80°F (lower temperatures = slower plant
> growth) you should also monitor the root zone temperature. When switching from a traditional plant lamp to LED
> growing light it may be necessary to add room heat or even a heat mat under your plants. Plants grow slower with
> less blooming when their environment temperature falls below 70° F. If gardening without any sunlight- hybrid
> ...


*unless your running rDWC systems w/ organic compost teas, w/ fungi/bac/aro/etcetc.. mother natures back  .. then all you would really need to monitor is water temp


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

i dont get what your sayin canna


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> i dont get what your sayin canna


*im just comparing your LED notes to an organic rDWC system  --no overwatering, no ppm, just need heat for water temp, ... lol

im not sure what im saying.. 

but it feels good just to say it... hahaha


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

rofl lol i dont overwater even without an organic dwc system i run a waterfarm 24hrs a day plugged in on a big ass industrial air pump flora nova going through it 24 7 now with full organic yea no ppm foo, which is why im tellin you i need poopy recipe, lol i need my rez to want some more heat its hot and i cant run a chiller on a single waterfarm lol

i guess i kinda understand now you musta been super faded to associate that with what i said cause now it makes sense but it was WAAAAY random rofl but made sense


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> rofl lol i dont overwater even without an organic dwc system i run a waterfarm 24hrs a day plugged in on a big ass industrial air pump flora nova going through it 24 7 now with full organic yea no ppm foo, which is why im tellin you i need poopy recipe, lol i need my rez to want some more heat its hot and i cant run a chiller on a single waterfarm lol
> 
> i guess i kinda understand now you musta been super faded to associate that with what i said cause now it makes sense but it was WAAAAY random rofl but made sense


*ninja moves baby...


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

cannawizard said:


> *ninja moves baby...


lol elite green ninja moves wizard-san


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## cannawizard (Sep 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> lol elite green ninja moves wizard-san


View attachment 1795684

l33t .. 1999


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 19, 2011)

HAHAHAHAH god damn today has been a funny ass day


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## FootClan (Sep 19, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> sorry for stating facts, you trolled other threads, asanine and ignorant comments there, so sorry that i assumed you were going do the same things here. Its all i've seen you do in any LED thread, so sorry for assuming what has been known to be fact up until now. Your comment was not funny sorry you thought it was it was just a comment it didnt make me laugh as much as your last comment. I cant help the fact that you acted asanine and ignorant in those other threads. Its too late for that, if you want to change the publics opinion of you then maybe you should act a little differently is all i can say. I dont see how me quoting a fact is being a "fucking dick" also your first post in this thread was already trolling it so how could i not assume that?
> 
> 
> thats all i have to say man it put everyone off of anything you may have had to add that could have been helpful to the thread, i honestly have nothing against you personally i have a problem with the attitude you take in every LED thread i've seen you in. Its rude, onoxious and inflamitory and when i say those things lets be straight so you dont get offended again i speak only on the times when you come at people with things like the above quoted with that kind of attitude. Its not helpful and of course its going to turn people off to what you have to say man.
> ...


only read the first sentence but im sure everything you said sounded dickish no doubt......... "no one thought it was funny"?? Why did i get a LIKE for that post that you say wasnt funny?? once again prove you wrong..... oh your dick head for sure


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## virulient (Sep 20, 2011)

FootClan said:


> only read the first sentence but im sure everything you said sounded dickish no doubt......... "no one thought it was funny"?? Why did i get a LIKE for that post that you say wasnt funny?? once again prove you wrong..... oh your dick head for sure


He said you weren't funny in the third sentence. I thought you only read the first? Seems like you didn't really think that one through...


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## hoss12781 (Sep 20, 2011)

It wouldn't be an led thread without foot clan along for the troll. Its super easy folks add him to your ignore list. @ footclan - get a fucking life man. Is there really nothing better for you to do than flame out every led thread on this site? Go ahead and reply if you like I won't be able to read it.


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## ledgrowing (Sep 20, 2011)

leds are great lights buy good ones not blackstar i own 3 and there low quality less than a year two are half burnt out and its in the board exspensive to fix. and no help at all from gotham, email get ignored


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## cannawizard (Sep 20, 2011)

ledgrowing said:


> leds are great lights buy good ones not blackstar i own 3 and there low quality less than a year two are half burnt out and its in the board exspensive to fix. and no help at all from gotham, email get ignored


*really.. thnx for the input...  which ones would you consider 'good' ?


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## hoss12781 (Sep 20, 2011)

ledgrowing said:


> leds are great lights buy good ones not blackstar i own 3 and there low quality less than a year two are half burnt out and its in the board exspensive to fix. and no help at all from gotham, email get ignored


I would suggest picking up the phone during business hours. Blackstars are supposed to be under a 1 year warranty. They aren't the best in the business but certainly aren't the worst. If that fails contact the Better Business Bureau. I've seen some kickass blackstar journals but have read too many sketchy things about gotham's business practices that led me to purchase from a different company - no hate directed to the blackstar users out there, just my personal choice based on other's posts and the 1 year warranty vs the 3 year offered by others. Seriously call them man, if that doesn't work call the BBB - that usually solicits an immediate response.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Sep 20, 2011)

Whats with the Blackstar hate? Are the reps from Blackstar even on this site to answer questions?


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## FootClan (Sep 20, 2011)

whats all these threads you speak of?? the only one i remeber is the 900 page one and i didnt even enter it tell after 800 pages and i only posted something because the guy who started its first sentece was " cant think of any reason not to use leds light......So i jumped in with a sarcastic responce and then everyone started going crazy and getting all butt hurt i thought the gross over reaction was amusing......at that time i had not realized how snobby led growers could be...... I talked to some people at work and the owner of the store about the gross over reaction on the forums and he didnt seem suprised, he said he sees the same attitude from his led grower friends. He said he cant discuss anything led related with them or they freak on him... So i guess its common thing you guys getting butt hurt and blasting anyone that says anything opposed to your view point.... So knowing that i wont take it personal because you guys cant help it i guess.....And im not lumping every led grower togeather sure there is plenty of led growers that arent as i discribed(Like cannawizard dosent bias etc etc) but it sucks that you non bias non snobby growers are getting lumped in with them...... 

And as far has dick head magoo, at this point hes so jaded towards me that it dosent matter what i say or dont say i could say 2 plus 2 equals 4 and he would respond with " your ignorant troll" LOL ............


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## Devilspawn (Sep 20, 2011)

ledgrowing said:


> leds are great lights buy good ones not blackstar i own 3 and there low quality less than a year two are half burnt out and its in the board exspensive to fix. and no help at all from gotham, email get ignored


Cant say response is bad from them- HAd a power supply go bad last week and one was sent out right away- It is plug & play. Had half of array blinking for three days The contact form on their website isnt the greatest..Need to contact Vic directly and he respsnds within 24 hrs. I did order a Mag 357 because I was concerned it would totally go mid flower, so now I have both in the cab...


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## FootClan (Sep 20, 2011)

virulient said:


> He said you weren't funny in the third sentence. I thought you only read the first? Seems like you didn't really think that one through...


 oh your right i read 3 sentences....lol you totally proved that everything i said is wrong by proving that i read 3 sentences and not 1...and your point is?? oh wait there is not point........


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## virulient (Sep 20, 2011)

FootClan said:


> oh your right i read 3 sentences....lol you totally proved that everything i said is wrong by proving that i read 3 sentences and not 1...and your point is?? oh wait there is not point........


There is no point. Think about it. If I said something, that didn't make a point, that was mildly funny.....maybe it didn't warrant a response. Maybe the appropriate response is "ha", then move on with your life. You have a lot of growing up to do if you take THAT personally.


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## 808toker (Sep 21, 2011)

Anyone got anything to say about the led tube lights? i use a t-8 setup to keep my girls in veg and i saw some led lights that you can just replace your old fluro bulbs with and i wonder if they are worth the price? heres the link http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/agroled-t8-size-led-tubes-2blue-and-2red-kit-p-3418.html


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## cannawizard (Sep 21, 2011)

808toker said:


> Anyone got anything to say about the led tube lights? i use a t-8 setup to keep my girls in veg and i saw some led lights that you can just replace your old fluro bulbs with and i wonder if they are worth the price? heres the link http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/agroled-t8-size-led-tubes-2blue-and-2red-kit-p-3418.html


***

*Specifications:*
*Use*
Replaces up to a typical 600 watt HPS 

*Hi-Power LED Composition*
Engineered light response, tailored specifically to enhance and promote plant growth. This includes both water and nitrogen absorption.
Un-useable and un-desirable light spectrum components such as Infrared and Ultraviolet are excluded by design.

*Electrical Characteristics*
Operating voltage: 90 to 265 VAC
Operating frequency: Patented proprietary synchronized pulse operation.
Typical power consumption: 1335mA typical 
*Synchronization*
Light fixtures pulse rate is synchronized via standard CAT 5 cable.

*Light Pattern*
110 deg from vertical axis
*Weight and Dimensions*
Weight: 10kG (22.3lbs) shipping, 8kG (16.4lbs) hanging.
Length: 29.5 in., 79.93 cm. 
Width: 8.5 in., 21.59 cm.
Height: 5 in., 12.70 cm.
Mounting Hardware: adjustable track eyelet bolts.
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->
*Certification and Conformance*
CE, UL and CSA
*Other Characteristics*
LED estimated life span: 70,000 hrs average continuous use, to 30% decrease in initial Lumens.
Operating luminary position: any position possible
Maximum surface temperature: 85 F.
Operating temperature (indoor use only): 82 F.
Run-up time (100% of final value) : instantaneous.
Re-strike delay: none 
Integrated power supply; requires no "ballast" 

Enhanced Light Output- Unlike "broad spectrum" plant grow lights, which produce a lot of light plants can't use efficiently, LEDAgro Grow Lights enhance the colors of light used by plants for efficient and healthy growth. By boosting light plants need and delivering greater intensity through our patented delivery methods we save power and money.

**looks like its in the right nms range  no expert.. but looks like a good replacement t8 worth trying


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## dannyboy602 (Sep 21, 2011)

Myles117 said:


> danny your grow looks great! only suggestion id have is to flip t5s 90 degrees so they run their long way down the row of plants. might get better coverage that way. can't wait to see how big the buds will get with all that LED and then the t5s in addition


I know. I want them horizontal too. Gotta fix that.
Hey it's cap'n crunch....nice avi...I messed up the upload or copied the wrong link IDK. I'm not very good at tech stuff. Thx for checking out my grow and if these deliver (I'll know in a month) I'm getting more LED's. The best part so far is no heat.


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## Nikolaj06 (Sep 21, 2011)

I just have one comment on the whole blackstar issue.. They lie either about wavelengths used or LEDs used.. Cree does *not* manufacture 660 nm LED's... So they probably lie when saying it is all Cree... I hope, because 660 nm is pretty vital to have...

Also here is a very knowledgeable post about LED's.. The wattage is not really what is important anymore. If I should trust a grow light company they should write the bin range of the LEDs they use! http://www.gardenscure.com/420/lighting/117772-how-build-your-diy-led-array.html
The bin is the efficiency of the LED.. (like lumens per watt in most cases)


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## cannawizard (Sep 21, 2011)

Nikolaj06 said:


> I just have one comment on the whole blackstar issue.. They lie either about wavelengths used or LEDs used.. Cree does *not* manufacture 660 nm LED's... So they probably lie when saying it is all Cree... I hope, because 660 nm is pretty vital to have...
> 
> Also here is a very knowledgeable post about LED's.. The wattage is not really what is important anymore. If I should trust a grow light company they should write the bin range of the LEDs they use! http://www.gardenscure.com/420/lighting/117772-how-build-your-diy-led-array.html
> The bin is the efficiency of the LED.. (like lumens per watt in most cases)


*thnx for the link brah


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 21, 2011)

not sure where you got your info from but i can find 660nm cree's everywhere so lets keep it to info thats actually truthful. Good link though



Nikolaj06 said:


> I just have one comment on the whole blackstar issue.. They lie either about wavelengths used or LEDs used.. Cree does *not* manufacture 660 nm LED's... So they probably lie when saying it is all Cree... I hope, because 660 nm is pretty vital to have...
> 
> Also here is a very knowledgeable post about LED's.. The wattage is not really what is important anymore. If I should trust a grow light company they should write the bin range of the LEDs they use! http://www.gardenscure.com/420/lighting/117772-how-build-your-diy-led-array.html
> The bin is the efficiency of the LED.. (like lumens per watt in most cases)


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## cannawizard (Sep 21, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> not sure where you got your info from but i can find 660nm cree's everywhere so lets keep it to info thats actually truthful.


[video=youtube;w8A4CoKiAsc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8A4CoKiAsc&feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## hoss12781 (Sep 21, 2011)

808toker said:


> Anyone got anything to say about the led tube lights? i use a t-8 setup to keep my girls in veg and i saw some led lights that you can just replace your old fluro bulbs with and i wonder if they are worth the price? heres the link http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/agroled-t8-size-led-tubes-2blue-and-2red-kit-p-3418.html


Here is why I wouldn't buy these 

1.) We don't know which type of leds they are employing - just says red, blue and white
2.) The individual diode strength is totally weak - simple math tells us that each tube is listed as producing 22w but has 288 individual diodes - each diode is pumping out a mere .076w, you won't get any kind of decent penetration with that low a wattage, you'll want something that is driven to at least 2.1w per diode to make things run proper.
3.) No mention of warranty
4.) No fans to cool the diodes - although this may not be an issue since they are so low wattage to begin with.
5.) Total bands - you're only getting three, most 2011 model led lights from reputable companies are going to use at least 6 bands. My GLH ufo uses 12 bands. They won't hit all the right spots to encourage comprehensive growth.
6.) Price - that's really expensive for 88w of low per diode wattage led. For $260 bucks you could probably find a blackstar 240, hydroponics hut pro grow 180, or a similar wattage Grow LED Hydro unit - all of which have been, for the most part, well reviewed on this board. 

My garden met with success using mostly the hydro hut lights, but thats just me. Not trying to be mean at all, sorry if you've already purchased - hopefully I've helped steer you away as I'm quite positive this will not give you what you want. When researching which led is right for you look for the type of diode employed - cree, bridgelux, epistar are the big three. Ask about warranty - if a company really stands behind their product they'll back it for at least three years. Remember these are supposed to last 50,000 plus hours. Ask if the wattage advertised is the total chip capacity or the wattage to which the diodes are driven - there is a huge difference - see the blackstar rants. Ask for a spec sheet. Look for journals to see what others have done with the light you're considering. Hope this helps man.


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## Nikolaj06 (Sep 21, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> not sure where you got your info from but i can find 660nm cree's everywhere so lets keep it to info thats actually truthful. Good link though


Where? Give me a link to a Cree 660nm data sheet. Mouser doesn't have any, Digikey doesn't have any... Cree's website doesn't show anything when searching... Where.. Tell me *where* are those Cree High Power LED's you speak of? And don't say that you've seen growlights with them, because that is not proof...


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 21, 2011)

you should look more closely at their spectrum chart, technically its a 630-660nm led it produces most of its wavelength at less than 660nm so maybe this is what you refer to. Im not going to argue that luxeon makes better leds in that NM but all i am saying is that cree has a leds that have spectrum in the 660 range.


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## Nikolaj06 (Sep 21, 2011)

http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_xpe.asp
This is all high power LED's from Cree... Notice all reds say 620-630.
What I'm saying is that Blackstars mislead you by saying they have 660nm LED's, from Cree. Because that is simply a lie. Why are you so hostile towards this statement?
I'm not saying they do not work.
And if you are going to retaliate again. Give. me. a. f***ing. link.


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 21, 2011)

retaliate?? Seriously??? lol bro there is no retaliation whatsoever man i merely stated go look at their spectrum chart you can clearly see that the 630nm led puts out up to 660nm light like i said not as good as luxeon. So whats your beef? I said that their 630nm led puts out up to 660nm light? Shit i backed up and said that luxeon has a better led... go away man, makin my day tedious



Nikolaj06 said:


> http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_xpe.asp
> This is all high power LED's from Cree... Notice all reds say 620-630.
> What I'm saying is that Blackstars mislead you by saying they have 660nm LED's, from Cree. Because that is simply a lie. Why are you so hostile towards this statement?
> I'm not saying they do not work.
> And if you are going to retaliate again. Give. me. a. f***ing. link.


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## Nikolaj06 (Sep 21, 2011)

So you agree that Blackstar's manufacturer is lying?
And what spectrum chart?


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 21, 2011)

omfg some people just too lazy to use google now a days, im not your baby sitter use the search function to benefit yourself for once this isnt what this thread is for anyways maybe reading the OP would help you.


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## Nikolaj06 (Sep 21, 2011)

So... I just google "Their spectrum chart".....
I asked because you were not being specific!


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 21, 2011)

whats the world come to these days everyone demands that s1 else think for them =( it took me all of three seconds to find it i didnt search for spectrum chart either think about what you were talking about maybe search for that. Think about what i would have had to search for, put yourself in my shoes and use what the good lord gave you and look.

Yes im an asshole today feel free to call me one.


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## Nikolaj06 (Sep 21, 2011)

I really do not know if you are talking about Blackstar spectrum chart or a specific Cree spectrum chart... Could be both...


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## cannawizard (Sep 21, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> whats the world come to these days everyone demands that s1 else think for them =( it took me all of three seconds to find it i didnt search for spectrum chart either think about what you were talking about maybe search for that. Think about what i would have had to search for, put yourself in my shoes and use what the good lord gave you and look.
> 
> Yes im an asshole today feel free to call me one.


*surething Asshole


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## Kaptain Kron (Sep 21, 2011)

=) hahahahaha


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## ezgreentumb (Oct 22, 2011)

hey canna i have two 240 blackstars. what distance should they be in flowering from the girls.


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## Myles117 (Oct 22, 2011)

Kaptain Kron said:


> whats the world come to these days everyone demands that s1 else think for them =( it took me all of three seconds to find it i didnt search for spectrum chart either think about what you were talking about maybe search for that. Think about what i would have had to search for, put yourself in my shoes and use what the good lord gave you and look.
> 
> Yes im an asshole today feel free to call me one.


all the lord gave me is a hot body  no brains here hahahahah


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 22, 2011)

ezgreentumb said:


> hey canna i have two 240 blackstars. what distance should they be in flowering from the girls.


with your 240s you can get as close as 5.5 inches but i would suggest at least 8-10 for spectrum mixing.


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 22, 2011)

wtf myles lol buck up buddy, and stash those seeds for later you better not have had to get rid of them too -___-


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## hippy132 (Oct 22, 2011)

How about my GLH Spectra 180's V2 , how close u think during veg?


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## Kaptain Kron (Oct 22, 2011)

that would probably be more of a question for irishboy, but if i remember correctly the v2's are the fuckin insanely powerful ones with 3w chips before they lowered pSU power to them. I think ideal height as irish said was to start around 30 inches and go down to about 20-24 workin it like an inch at a time.


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