# THC breakdown temp??



## bigd1ckdaddy (May 25, 2008)

Ok, so I have been looking on here to get the temp at which THC starts to breakdown. I have seen people claim anything from 85F to ~360F. Can someone in the know please clarify. I mean really which is it? I know my vaporizer reach about 220F+ and thats right where I get the "no smoke" hit. But if I turn it lower, I don't get a very good hit. The reason I am asking is because I have heating element that will be placed in my bud dryer, but it reaches about 120F. It is taken from a Ronco Food Dehydrator.


----------



## LoudBlunts (May 25, 2008)

120f? fuck no....


if i was to use a bud dryer i would keep it a little higher than 60 no more than 70-75 TOPS.....if that!


----------



## Lord Dangly Bits (May 25, 2008)

Why use a bud drier, You are going to lock in the chloriphil and make your bud harsh, plus it will not have as nice of a smell to it. And also in my opinion it will not be as strong of weed either.


----------



## bigd1ckdaddy (May 26, 2008)

I am going to be making honey oil extract. I have a batch that went herm. and I hate smoking herms. So I figures why not just extract the thc. In this instance I don't really think the chlorophyll/taste will matter.

I just want to get the thc. If the heater/dryer is going to break down what little there is then I won't do it. But if it will just remove the water, then that is my goal.


----------



## gogrow (May 28, 2008)

this is all i could find for you bro; hope it helps 
*TEMPERATURE THC OIL BOILS

*_At what temperature does THC oil boil? What temperature should I set my vaporizer at?

Michael G.,
Internet_

THC has a boiling point of 200°C (392°F). However before the THC boils, other parts of the oil evaporate and boil.

Here are some important temperatures: At 21°C (70°F) the most volatile terpenoids start to evaporate, lending a pungent odor to the air.

At 31°C (87°F) the less volatile terpenoids start to evaporate, lending the air even more pungent odors.

At 39°C (102°F ) vir tually all of the terpenoids undergo evaporation fairly rapidly.

At 50°C (122°F) THC-Acid decarboxylates as the water molecule held in the carbonate form evaporates. This activates the THC.

At 66°C (150°F) Cannabidiol (CBD) melts and starts to evaporate.

At 185°C (365°F) Cannibinol (CBN) boils.

At 200°C (392°F) THC boils. Clear vapor from a vaporizer.


----------



## bigd1ckdaddy (May 29, 2008)

Awesome info. Thank you very much.


----------



## It's 5 o'clock somewhere (May 29, 2008)

I agree, good info....


----------



## maxtor (Oct 31, 2008)

that means u can dry your bud up to 50 degrees celcius, without any loss?, or what?...... how long can u store buds before they loose their effect?


----------



## SuperLemonMe (Feb 14, 2010)

maxtor said:


> that means u can dry your bud up to 50 degrees celcius, without any loss?, or what?...... how long can u store buds before they loose their effect?


I'd say 31 degrees. A guy on another site made a dryer that runs at 28.5 which he reckoned was when THC starts to break down

The above sounds like 31 C to me is as high as you want to go. I'd keep it to 25 or so, same as growing. At 25 C when crystal is forming on the plants, it does not degrade. At 32 I KNOW IT DOES I've looked at plants and the balls on top of the trichomes were gone, I assume they had degraded back downwards. They regrew of course 

Remember.. terpens contribute to the wide range of effects, as well as making it more enjoyable

As for storage. You should store buds in clean jars once fully dry, to cure it. Jars are best also for long term storage, so leave it in there. It just gets better and better, as long as you open it now and then.

Some strains are better than others it would seem. Blueberry is touted to have a very long shelf life.


----------



## GBW (Jul 20, 2010)

i found this too very interresting ???

Credit to http://www.drugsandbooze.com/showthread.php?t=19290


first of all, bake your pot on a sheet of tin foil at 250-260deg until when you pinch a nug it breaks apart into dust (usualy 10-15 mins for somewhat fresh stuff)

this is the process of converting 80-90% of whatever inactive alkaloids are left into thc and thcv
sometimes it can double or even triple the potency of your bud if you try smoking it after this process... it will bake out most of the smell and flavor though, so if your picky about that and dont care more for the medical sedation, then maybe its not for you. i can make an ounce last much longer this way though. Quote:
What happens is, a lot of the THC in marijuana is initially in the form of THC-COOH, a carboxylic acid. When heat is applied, a decarboxylation reaction occurs, liberating the carboxyl group as carbon dioxide, with the extra hydrogen atom coming in to bond to the now positively charged carbon atom that was left behind.

Here's my best guess at the actual mechanism:





In the first step, the heat applied excites the molecule and causes the carbon-carbon bond between the benzene ring and the carboxyl group to break and reform on the oxygen molecule in the hydroxyl part of the carboxyl group. This causes the electrons from the O-H bond to move to the hydrogen. There is now a negatively charged hydrogen ion with a lone pair and a carbon dioxide molecule, along with a THC molecule with a positive charge on the member of the benzene ring that the carboxyl group left from.
Once this happens, the hydrogen ion moves in to bond with the carbon in the benzene ring, forming THC. We now have an active THC molecule and a carbon dioxide molecule produced from an biologically inactive THC acid.
I'm guessing that this happens via an SN1 reaction because the carbocation intermediate that is formed is relatively stable due to the positive charge not just being in the benzyllic position, but actually in the benzene ring. 
Can I anyone verify this?


----------



## GBW (Jul 27, 2010)

bump???????


----------



## dtp5150 (Nov 6, 2010)

i prefer to heat my weed right before i smoke it, with my lighter.

....newbs


----------



## vanillasnake21 (Apr 5, 2012)

This seems like an interesting, but a little bit dated thread. Methods that maximize the potency of your bud are always welcome . So I did a little research, and threw in a few of my own questions.

Based on the list of temperatures that gogrow posted earlier in this thread, the first molecules that evaporate are terpenoids at 31 C , so what are terpenoids and how do they effect the high?

Source: http://cannabination.com/tag/terpenoids/
"There are numerous references in popular _Cannabis_ literature which claim that_ Cannabis_ strains can smell like mango, melon, and even grapes. Well, it might not be their imagination. The odor of cannabis comes from over 120 terpenes (a.k.a. terpenoids fragrance molecules) that are made by the plant... Terpenes have some interesting effects on humans, including modulating the effects of THC (2) and decreasing memory loss... One terpene is unique to _Cannabis_ (m-mentha-1,8(9)-dien-5-ol). All others occur in fruits, vegetables, and flowers."

Basically they contribute to the smell and flavor of the bud, they say it helps to modulate the effects of THC i.e help make the THC effects more mellow.

By 39 C most of the terpenoids have evoporated.

At 50 C, THC gets released from it's base, allowing it to flow with the air stream (hopefully toward your lungs). This is the step when THC is considered active, that is, it can bind with other molecules.

At 66 C, Cannabidiol starts to evaporate. What is cannabidiol you ask?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
[Cannabidiol] has displayed sedative effects in animal tests. Some research, however, indicates that CBD can increase alertness. It may decrease the rate of THC clearance from the body, perhaps by interfering with the metabolism of THC in the liver... Medically, it has been shown to relieve convulsion,inflammation, anxiety, and nausea, as well as inhibit cancer cell growth.[SUP][5][/SUP] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[SUP][6][/SUP] Studies have also shown that it may relieve symptoms of dystonia... Cannabidiol is shown to decrease activity of the limbic system[SUP][10][/SUP] and to decrease social isolation induced by THC.[SUP][11][/SUP] It's also shown that Cannabidiol reduces anxiety in social anxiety disorder."

I think this is a very important chemical that many of the synthetic marijuanas sold at head shops lack. They're saying it helps contribute to controlling the paranoid thoughts and stay calmer, which is a generally an agreeable quality of weed.

At 185, Cannabidiol starts to boil (Basically means the same as the previous step, except it's getting released much faster.

200, THC boils. This is a little confusing because he says it's the same as the clear vapor from the vaporizer. But it might also means the point when parts of THC molecules break away, thus destroying it's properties, not sure about this one, maybe he just worded it wrong.

My opinion: Based on all of the above, I would say that vaped weed is still the best way to get the most out of it. If you heat it up on a tinfoil like the other person suggested at 265 C, it would work in theory if the air inside the heating device is standing still, but in a stove the air behaves something like blobs in the lava lamp, rising when heated and falling when cooled at the top of the stove. Since at 265 C all the active ingredients of weed are floating around as vapor, even slightest air movements will carry them away from remaining ashes (and probably condensing on your stove). 

With all of that said, I think that the proposed method just mimics the same thing that a vaporizer does, but using a regular pipe. So to get the best out if it do this:

-- Create a small ball out of small piece of foil, put weed inside (the more broken up or grinded up the better)
-- Secure the ball and use a lighter to heat it up making sure that you evenly apply the flame to the entire ball (this is somewhat important, because if the temperature isn't equal on the ball's surface then thc will condense on the foil!) Try not to move the ball at all to keep the air inside as still as possible.
-- Allow the ball to cool for a few minutes ( still not touching it)
-- Now open it up, put the ashes in the bong and smoke away.

The reason this whole process works is because when all the vapors are released, with no air movement they are still floating very close to the ash that was formed. When we let it cool, the vapors re condense on the ash itself (since the ash becomes cold and the vapor is hot). Now all you have to do is heat it up in a bong and most of the vapors will be released into the air again.

Hope to try this very soon 
--


----------



## vanillasnake21 (Apr 5, 2012)

This seems like an interesting, but a little bit dated thread. Methods that maximize the potency of your bud are always welcome . So I did a little research, and threw in a few of my own questions.

Based on the list of temperatures that gogrow posted earlier in this thread, the first molecules that evaporate are terpenoids at 31 C , so what are terpenoids and how do they effect the high?

Source: http://cannabination.com/tag/terpenoids/
"There are numerous references in popular _Cannabis_ literature which claim that_ Cannabis_ strains can smell like mango, melon, and even grapes. Well, it might not be their imagination. The odor of cannabis comes from over 120 terpenes (a.k.a. terpenoids fragrance molecules) that are made by the plant... Terpenes have some interesting effects on humans, including modulating the effects of THC (2) and decreasing memory loss... One terpene is unique to _Cannabis_ (m-mentha-1,8(9)-dien-5-ol). All others occur in fruits, vegetables, and flowers."

Basically they contribute to the smell and flavor of the bud, they say it helps to modulate the effects of THC i.e help make the THC effects more mellow.

By 39 C most of the terpenoids have evoporated.

At 50 C, THC gets released from it's base, allowing it to flow with the air stream (hopefully toward your lungs). This is the step when THC is considered active, that is, it can bind with other molecules.

At 66 C, Cannabidiol starts to evaporate. What is cannabidiol you ask?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
 [Cannabidiol] has displayed sedative effects in animal tests. Some research, however, indicates that CBD can increase alertness. It may decrease the rate of THC clearance from the body, perhaps by interfering with the metabolism of THC in the liver... Medically, it has been shown to relieve convulsion,inflammation, anxiety, and nausea, as well as inhibit cancer cell growth.[SUP][5][/SUP] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[SUP][6][/SUP] Studies have also shown that it may relieve symptoms of dystonia... Cannabidiol is shown to decrease activity of the limbic system[SUP][10][/SUP] and to decrease social isolation induced by THC.[SUP][11][/SUP] It's also shown that Cannabidiol reduces anxiety in social anxiety disorder."

I think this is a very important chemical that many of the synthetic marijuanas sold at head shops lack. They're saying it helps contribute to controlling the paranoid thoughts and stay calmer, which is a generally an agreeable quality of weed.

At 185, Cannabidiol starts to boil (Basically means the same as the previous step, except it's getting released much faster.

200, THC boils. This is a little confusing because he says it's the same as the clear vapor from the vaporizer. But it might also means the point when parts of THC molecules break away, thus destroying it's properties, not sure about this one, maybe he just worded it wrong.

My opinion: Based on all of the above, I would say that vaped weed is still the best way to get the most out of it. If you heat it up on a tinfoil like the other person suggested at 265 C, it would work in theory if the air inside the heating device is standing still, but in a stove the air behaves something like blobs in the lava lamp, rising when heated and falling when cooled at the top of the stove. Since at 265 C all the active ingredients of weed are floating around as vapor, even slightest air movements will carry them away from remaining ashes (and probably condensing on your stove). 

With all of that said, I think that the proposed method just mimics the same thing that a vaporizer does, but using a regular pipe. So to get the best out if it do this:

-- Create a small ball out of small piece of foil, put weed inside (the more broken up or grinded up the better)
-- Secure the ball and use a lighter to heat it up making sure that you evenly apply the flame to the entire ball (this is somewhat important, because if the temperature isn't equal on the ball's surface then thc will condense on the foil!) Try not to move the ball at all to keep the air inside as still as possible.
-- Allow the ball to cool for a few minutes ( still not touching it)
-- Now open it up, put the ashes in the bong and smoke away.

The reason this whole process works is because when all the vapors are released, with no air movement they are still floating very close to the ash that was formed. When we let it cool, the vapors re condense on the ash itself (since the ash becomes cold and the vapor is hot). Now all you have to do is heat it up in a bong and most of the vapors will be released into the air again.

Hope to try this very soon 
--


----------



## delvite (Apr 5, 2012)

lols double posting is frown upon........................you may find this interesting  ........................... https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/516151-delvite-how-does-vapouriser-work.html


----------



## SnakeByte (Dec 8, 2012)

maxtor said:


> that means u can dry your bud up to 50 degrees celcius, without any loss?, or what?...... how long can u store buds before they loose their effect?


Actually with these numbers, seems it's actually the best to dry your bud at 40-42 deg C (107.6 deg F).


----------



## Fachina Swollen (Aug 22, 2013)

gogrow said:


> this is all i could find for you bro; hope it helps
> *TEMPERATURE THC OIL BOILS
> 
> *_At what temperature does THC oil boil? What temperature should I set my vaporizer at?
> ...




Hope this answers most of the questions. 

According to this chart, if you are smoking it and want the good tastes and smells, don't heat above 102 F. Look up curing and let a good balance of oxygen and bacteria convert max THC for smoking and break down the chlorophyll taste. (At 50°C (122°F) THC-Acid decarboxylates as the water molecule held in the carbonate form evaporates. This activates the THC.) means the THC-acid is converted to THC, not activate all THC. If you want to make BHO that contains other cannabinoids, dry between 123 F and 149 F. If you want the high of just THC/THCV in you BHO, dry between 366 F and 391 F. THCV boils at 220 C. So if you want to set your vaporizer, make sure it is a little over 220 C so you get the good THCV buzz. THCV is what gives the high altitude indicas such a good punch. If there is a good amount in your bud, make sure u smoke it!

I can't confirm those numbers in the chart are correct, it's just the cliff notes according to what was written.


----------



## Mattydread (Jul 19, 2014)

I know this thread is concerning mostly drying and curing temperatures, and if the resulting weed or oil is for vaporising or smoking then it doesn't matter too much if decarboxylation is completed (as it will be when it is smoked or vaporised anyway) but a lot of the info and temps on this thread are incorrect.
Decarboxylation is what converts the raw THC-acid into active THC. This is important to know if you are eating the cannabis as THC-acid has very different effect to THC (biggest difference is that THC-acid doesn't get you high).
Although some gradual decarboxylation does occur at temps as low as 50c it takes a long time and would require days to decarb at this temp (maybe even longer). The minimum temp for rapid decarboxylation (with in an hour or two) is 106c with a range of 110c to 130c considered optimal. These temps aren't recommended for drying/curing weed because you lose most of the terpenes this way, but if you are cooking cannabis to eat then these are the temps you need to hit to activate all the THC.


----------



## eugeneoregon (Sep 4, 2017)

gogrow said:


> this is all i could find for you bro; hope it helps
> *TEMPERATURE THC OIL BOILS
> *
> _At what temperature does THC oil boil? What temperature should I set my vaporizer at?
> ...


These numbers are meaningless without the pressures used during the measurements of temperatures needed to achieve a phase transition from liquid to gas. The temps you cite for THC is the Pubchem and accurate measurement however they also list this number as accurate at a deep vacuum of 20 microns (.02 mm Hg). The substances cannot boil at standard room pressures until a computed temperature of over double at least of what is listed in the table. Here is my own proof of this which measured boiling point crudely at 140C under a deep vacuum of .00075 mm Hg, also said as ¾ of one micron.


----------



## BobCajun (Sep 4, 2017)

This may help some. Looks like a fine line between hot enough and too hot.


> *High vs. Low Temperatures*
> If a user vaporizes cannabis *below 180°C (356°F)*, they will mainly inhale terpenes because cannabinoids won’t evaporate at low temperatures, according to Dr. Hazekamp. But lower temperatures can be ideal for those who want a less intense and more awake high.
> 
> Higher temperatures tend to yield more cannabinoids, as studies by researchers in the Netherlands have shown.
> ...


----------

