# Aeroponic Brown Roots



## Alpha Prime (May 7, 2010)

I have my timer set to 15 minutes on/15 minutes off, how am I still getting brown on my roots? They are not rotten or rotting, its more like a layer of browness (for lack of a better word). I recently re-added an airpump that pumps 24/7, but is there any other reason this would be happening other than the oxygen level in the water since for 15 minutes intervals it gets nothing but air?


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## ow.douglas (May 7, 2010)

Do they smell? What kind of nutes are you using?


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## Evo8Emperor (May 7, 2010)

1 min on 5 min off. I think you have your timing off. I started a aeroponics set up from stinkbuds instructions and have asked multiple ppl questions. They all tell me the same thing though make sure the timer is set to 1 min on 5 min off. Ill get some pics for ya but I have had them in for three days now and there loving it.


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## Alpha Prime (May 7, 2010)

With the timer I'm using the shortest interval is 15 minutes on or off. Where do you get timers that control shorter times and how much are they? I'm using foxfarms nutes at half strength. They do not smell but I have a very little sense of smell so I can't tell, and I'm pretty sure I wouldnt know what kind of bad smell it would smell like anyway. I was thinking of dipping it in a H2O2 dip for like 30 minutes to clean it off or so but I dont even know if that would work or not.


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## andar (May 7, 2010)

i think some nutrients turn your roots brown. if your plants look good i would ignore the brown roots.


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## kbishop06 (May 7, 2010)

Make sure your res. tempms are in the low 70's preferably 68.......High temps will cause root rot. The oxygen levels in co0ler water is far greater.


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## UrbanAerO (May 7, 2010)

Im having the same issue myself, started running 15on 30 off. They looked better, so I pushed even more 15 on / 45 off, they still look great so I might do 15 on/ 60 min off. Im going to keep cutting the time back untill i notice the plants are starving of water then leave it. I am pretty sure your overwatering, when theres not much roots its ok for 15/15 cycle but when the roots grow big they stay wet, longer. you want them to dry out just before rewatering. Hydrogen peroxide takes the brown away and cleans em up, but I cant find the high concentration peroxide anymore, so Im trying to solve the problem before it happens. Ill let you know how my starvation expiriment goes.


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## nubiebud (May 7, 2010)

Mine are brown as well. But that is from the nutrients.


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## dinobelly (May 7, 2010)

99% chance it's from the nutes, so no need to worry. If you're still freaked out, get some Stress Zyme from your local Petsmart, fish store, etc etc, it's like 3 bucks and works in place of h202 or hydrozyme - and a hell of a lot cheaper. As far as your timer is concerned, you're fine with 15 on 15 off. If you like, you could change it to 15 on 30-45 off. These guys that spend that 50-75 bucks on the 1 on 5 off timer, wasted their money. I've checked out both and there really isn't any difference in growth rates. I've included a pic of the Stress Zyme - Wally World carries the stuff too. If your roots aren't slimy, they're not rotting. Do your plants look healthy? Let's see some pics though!!


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## UrbanAerO (May 8, 2010)

What happens when you ouch the "browned root"? If it falls apart between your fingers it is some type of rot,bacteria or something. If the roots hold strong Dinobelly might be right and youhave nothing to worry about. If they're frail like mine were then your in trouble. I am interested in the Stress zyme though has anyone ever used it?


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## Alpha Prime (May 9, 2010)

I've used it for fish but how would you use it for plants, as a dip or in the res? I added an air fan to one of the holes I drilled for a pot which should deliver some cooler air. How else can I cool it besides buying a Chiller? I'll post some pix up tonight fo sho.


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## dinobelly (May 12, 2010)

UrbanAerO said:


> What happens when you ouch the "browned root"? If it falls apart between your fingers it is some type of rot,bacteria or something. If the roots hold strong Dinobelly might be right and youhave nothing to worry about. If they're frail like mine were then your in trouble. I am interested in the Stress zyme though has anyone ever used it?


Just follow the instructions on the bottle as if you were putting it in an aquarium. It's basically the same as hydrozyme, but since it's not marketed for growing, it doesn't carry the markup that most products in our growing world do.

Please tell me you all realize just how RIDICULOUSLY marked-up EVERYTHING at the hydro store - ANY hydro store - is? IE the Aeroflo......it's like $300-$900 - it can be built for less than $100 with just a tiny bit of know-how. Unfortunately we're at the mercy of a market that's driven by something that's "illegal" so the companies are able to rip people off.

Sorry, I'll step off my soap-box for the moment.


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## dipstick (May 19, 2010)

urban areo im in the same boat and tried everything if i dont find the cure im goin soil i use hydrozyme, great white, and gh flora series and still rot every damn time in my stealth hydro bubbleponic setup fuckin sux i had good luck till i started to flower and then bam root rot since even started over and bleached everything and fucking 3 weeks in and rotting as we speak


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## MediMary (May 19, 2010)

Hey bro you have brown algae... 
get some physan 20 .. dose at 3 mil per 25 gallons.. then add beneficial bacterias .. pref earthworm casting tea. 
you can get some more info here.. read page 1, then skip to page 29.. 
its a long read.. if you want you can read the whole thing
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55259&page=1
plus rep me if this saves ur ass 
peace n luv.. hope everything works out


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## CLOSETGROWTH (May 19, 2010)

Nutrients dye the roots, nothing to worry about if the plant look healthy


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## MediMary (May 19, 2010)

but if your roots are convered with a brown slime, and your ph is going up constantly, you have brown algae.
period.
GH micro dyes roots, but there isnt a brown layer of snot over um


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## dipstick (May 20, 2010)

medimary is the man, i have read and searched for hours on this shit and no one has given me the proper cure, so im clickin the link now and i will let you know how it goes


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## MediMary (May 20, 2010)

hey dipstick.. I would 86 the hygozyme..

hygrozyme= i grow slime

In my experience using enzymes before the beneficials have had a chance to take hold, is just giving the slime a buffet..
my 2 cents.
*edit* also when you go to make the earthworm casting tea. may I suggest using wiggleworm brand of castings. Good stuff


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## MediMary (May 20, 2010)

hey dipstick.. generally if your ph is going up its the brown algae, if its going down .. root rot of some sort


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## fatman7574 (May 21, 2010)

Roots turn brown as they die due to receiving in adequate levels of dissolved oxygen. roots do not breath in oxygen. roots only reciveoxygen through taking in water that contains dissolved oxygen. Roots also can be turned brown by some nutrients, typically only organic nutrients or chemical nutrients in which someone unwisely has added organic nutrients or supplements. Typically the roots that die do so from a lack of DO are roots in the center of a rootmass as little DO richwater makes it into the center of the root mass. 

Roots exposed to oxygen usually have no anerobic bacteria in close proximity. So what. Both anerobic and oxygen loving bacteria eat only the putrefied roots that are the result of root rot. They do not cause root rot. All water and soil not containing disinfectants have bacteria and enzymes present that cause the putrefication of dead roots. This putrefication of dead roots is root rot. IE when you buy things like Hygrozyme you are buying bacteria and enzymes that cause root rot as well as the aerobic bacteria and enzymes that convert the rotted roots into nitrate fertilizer. Hygrozyme fails to tell anyone this. It is hard to decptively cause people to believe Hygroxzyme prevents or cures root rot when it actually supplies in large numbers the bacteria that also cause root rot when dead roots are present. They also fail to tell you the bacteria and enzymes are naturally present in soils and water not containing disinfectants. You are just paying to get a higher concentration of the bacteria and enzymes that quickly die to normal minimal levels due to a lack of food in a chemical nutrient system. They have food only when roots start dieing or in a organic nutrient reservoir or a soil system. where they are already at high levels without hygrozyme being added. Deceptive advertising on their behalf. These supplied enxymes grow and multiplty rapidly with dead roots present as a food source and these are circulated through out the system in a recirculating reservoir. Algae require light to grow. 

So what can I say except if your running no organics add 4 drops of chlorox per gallon of water each day for two days and 2 drops per gallon after two days until harvest.

As far as a suggestion that 68 degree water is healthier than 78 degree water or that there is substantially more DO. *NOT*. Roots need little DO. They do need contact with an adequately large volumeofwater with a DO of at laest 2 ppm to recive adequate DO. This seldom happens with the roots at the cemnter of the root nasses in small tube aero, NFT or DWC sytems. Oxygen saturated water at 68 degrees F contains 9.08 ppm. at 78 it is 8.16 ppm. That is only aboat a 10% difference. That means a negligible difference. If yu can't get a high velocity or adequate large volume of water to the roots easily and quickly the DO whether it starts at 8 or 9 ppm will likely be at less than the minimum2 ppm regardless. DO will only typically diffuse through about 10 mm of flowing water.

Algae regardless of the color requires light to grow. If there is a large amount of soluble iron (Fe2+) in the water Fe2+ aeration causes the reduction of the iron to Fe+ which is soluble and precipitation of the iron occurs. Chelation of Fe2+ is suppose to stop this but that does not always occur especially if organic nutes are being used. The iron precipitate that covers the pumps and reservoirs, sprayers pipes and roots. The precipitate is a reddish brown color. It is often seen on sinks and showers but is more commonly present in untreated well water as most water treatment plants treat it with oxidants for removal if it is at high levels in the water they distribute.


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## freeze600cc (May 21, 2010)

I have my pump running the whole time they are getting light. and then once every 2 hours for 30min. during night cycle. They are doing great


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## fatman7574 (May 21, 2010)

Your point is?


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## MediMary (May 21, 2010)

hey fatman, most everything you said is correct, but some forms of brown algae DO NOT require light to grow...


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## freeze600cc (May 21, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Your point is?


ha, I missed the whole page 2. page 1 there was still discussion of pump timing lol


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## MediMary (May 21, 2010)

lol freeze.. i wondered what you were talking about as well.. i thought you posted in the wrong thread..


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## freeze600cc (May 21, 2010)

Ya I read fatmans response an was like " shit, did I post in the wrong thread?" haha.


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## dipstick (May 21, 2010)

thanks alot eneryone for the info


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## fatman7574 (May 22, 2010)

MediMary said:


> hey fatman, most everything you said is correct, but some forms of brown algae DO NOT require light to grow...


Study a bit more grasshopper. 

*Algae are photosynthetic organisms* somewhat like plants in structure at a cellular level, but rather different in many other regards. For a start, many algae are single-celled organisms, and these are the ones that form a slimy layer on solid objects such as a reservoir's walls, pumps etc. Like plants, *algae use light* to convert water, carbon dioxide, and dissolved mineral nutrients such as nitrate into the organic chemicals they use to build their bodies. No light, no algae. Brown algae as seen in reservoirs is a low light algae but it does require light. It is no different then the brown alage seen in fresh water aquariums with low lighting. Algae need light. Period.


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## MediMary (May 22, 2010)

eh fatman, maybe I am wrong, I was under the impression Brown slime algae prefers to make it's food via photosynthesis, but that it is also able to utilize chemical conversion, in other words it doesn't need light.


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## fatman7574 (May 22, 2010)

No, brown algae such as diatoms only need low light levels but they still need some light to drive the photosyntheis that makes the chemical conversions possible. To block all light requires that all light that is not reflected be absorbed. To absorb all light rays that requires a black suface as the color black is a combinations of all colors so it absorbs all light in all wave lengths (colors). 

So paint yor reservoir with flat black paint and paint flat white over that. 85% of the light and heat will be reflected from the surface by the flat white paint. The light (and its heat energy) that is not reflected away will penetrate the white paint and be absorbed by the black paint so that no light penertates. All the light that is absorbed by the back paint is converted entirely to heat energy. The alternative is to use Mylar plastic, aluminum foil or Panda wrap. 

Krylon Fusion spray paint is made to paint plastic. It is widely available.


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## OMG LS6 (May 22, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> No, brown algae such as diatoms only need low light levels but they still need some light to drive the photosyntheis that makes the chemical conversions possible. To block all light requires that all light that is not reflected be absorbed. To absorb all light rays that requires a black suface as the color black is a combinations of all colors so it absorbs all light in all wave lengths (colors).
> 
> So paint yor reservoir with flat black paint and paint flat white over that. 85% of the light and heat will be reflected from the surface by the flat white paint. The light (and its heat energy) that is not reflected away will penetrate the white paint and be absorbed by the black paint so that no light penertates. All the light that is absorbed by the back paint is converted entirely to heat energy. The alternative is to use Mylar plastic, aluminum foil or Panda wrap.
> 
> Krylon Fusion spray paint is made to paint plastic. It is widely available.


This is definitely great advice. I painted my reservoirs black but I didnt add the white which I was thinking about because of the reflecting properties. I will do that in the near future.


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## UrbanAerO (May 27, 2010)

I have Painted my aeroboxes black then white already and rezzy is a black bucket, water temps never get over 65-68. I'm thinking maybe scratches in the paint is probably letting small pinholes of light in but is that enough light to cause the brown algae? I use house and garden (aquaflakes a&b, root excel, drip clean, top booster, bud xl) techniflora magi-cal, atami bcuzz bloom, botanicare (sweet, silica blast, blast off b1, hydroplex), mad farmers nutz, Ph up& down, M.O.A.B, and superthrive. Anyone see any causes with my nutes? Timers 15 on/75 off, plant look phenomenal but roots started turning brown after I started flowering, but were perfectly white 4 weeks prior in veg. Only change in nutes from veg to flower is addition of hydroplex and bcuzz bloom. Also I am thinking of trying mad farmers oxygenator aka (hydrogen peroxide) to flush with, will this rid the brown? How much should I run with RO water?


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## fatman7574 (May 27, 2010)

You have added so many things to your resrvoir it is doubtful you will see white roots again. Why are you wasting so much money on supplements. Few ever provide enough gains to offset their costs. Few are designed to be used in combination with other supplements. Your nutrient reservoir sounds more like a soup or stew with so many thigs being used at one time.


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## MediMary (May 27, 2010)

hey fatman.. have you ever used floranova bloom?


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## fatman7574 (May 27, 2010)

Yes, it performed worse then Florabloom with Floramciro. The humic and fulvic acids used in FloraNova instead of most of the trace nutrients always vary in concentration and by ratios. They give no guaranteed analysis of the trace nutrients provided other than iron. You never get the same thing twice as there are no regulations governing quality or standards on humic or fulvic acids. They are typiccaly just extracted from brown coal with potassium hydroxide. The concenrations and ratios vary greatly in each piece of coal. There is no routine or required testing of the ratios or concentrations of trace nutrients in the acids used in Floranova or any humic or fulvic acid preparations sold for agricultural use. I suggest if you wish to use a nutrient formula with "humus" that you simply buy GH or An orDutch Master or equivalent 2 Part and add fulvic acid. Then you will have assured levels of known essentila trace nutrients in a usable form. http://www.super-grow.biz/FulvicAcid.jsp Or buy Matrix nutrients from American Agritech.


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## MediMary (May 27, 2010)

what would be your recommendation for someone wanting a good NPK nutrient that u wouldnt need other additives, and if you had to limit your additives what would be your main 2?

Currently besides beneficials which I brew from castings and alfalfa tea, I use earth ambrosia and earth nectar and botanicare aquashield( any onpinions on those procducts?)
Currently using AN micro grow bloom.
used to use techna flora bc line.
thats it for my experience for Mainline nutrients NPKs. (sorry not sure if that sounds retarded , im just saying I have only used those two lines of nutrients, not sure how to word it.)

I also have some gravity, which I have never used but was thinking of implementing this go around, and Overdrive by AN as well, once I start flowering.(any life experiences with these products as well?)

running a rdwc, is 27 gal tubs.
thanks for your input, sorry for being a prick in that other thread...


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## UrbanAerO (May 27, 2010)

Well ive been using this soup for years and consistently get 2lbs per light, however I know I can do better. I don't use all those nutes together at the same time but use a feeding schedule that changes week to week. Maybe my feeding schedue needs to a lighter mixture because its aero. I use expensive nutrients because I can afford it and do not have time to mix up a homebrew. money is not an issue for me as my turnover is monthly. Thank you the info Im going to weaken my mixture on my week 2 flower room to my clone feed mixture as roots are always white when I run it. How about the hydrogen peroxide on the roots? Will this strip the roots clean? How much have you used peroxide? If anyone has?


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## fatman7574 (May 27, 2010)

The issue with hydrogen peroxide is that it is a one shot disinfectant. It has no residual effect. This maens it disinfects as soon ans it is added but wiy thin minutes it no longer has any disinfectant abilities. Chlorine is capable of the initaial disinfrction plus any nt used up by the initial disfctio actions remanins in the solution as a disinfectant to keep the system sterile typically for 24 hours. Hydrogen peroxide does not and can not do this. Neither hydrogen peroxide nor chlorine should be used to whiten the roots but only to kill the bacteria that cause the roots to become brown.

By the way saying something like 2 lbs per light really isn't an indication of a good yield or an efficient syaytem or iany refection on the cost of the grow, unless you also include the time involved. you are just saying (16 ounces/lb * 2 lb* 28.35 grams/ounce / 1000 watts)= 0.912 grams per watt. However now consider time. If the power cost $0.25/kwh and it took 6 weeks of veg at 16 hrs/day and 6 weeks of budding at 12 hours per day [(0.25 khh* kwh/1000 watts * 1000 watts * 16 hrs/day * 7 days/wk * 6 weeks) + (0.25 kwh * kwh/1000 watts * 1000 watts * 12 hrs/day * 7 days/wk * 6 weeks)/(2lbs*16 ounces/lb* 28.35 grams/ounce]= $294 in electricity for lighting for 2 pounds. $294/(2 lbs * 16 ounces/ lb *28.35 grams/ounce)] = $0.332 gram for lighting costs assuming you use the same lighting throught out but simply change the lighting cycle.

This calculation does not take into account pumps, water, nutes, supplements, heating/cooling, ventilation CO2 etc etc etc as applies to your system. This means simple statement you supplied is inadequate for determining the quality of the grow. then there is thae fact that another person might get equal results using $20 worth of nutrients veru sus your $1000 worth of nutrients and supplements usage.

I use two 250 watt lights for every 12 square feet of budding area and get a yield every 6 weeks of just over 1 pound. That means the same yield (2 pounds) in 12 weeks with half the lighting costs. What is important is the number of kilo watt hours needed to produce each gram not just the size of the lights you used and the total yield. As can be seen your system efficiency is likely approx half that of mine. Yes I use less lighting during veg and cloning but I ma disregarding that as I calculated yourcosts on using the samelo ighting wattages. These are just ball park numbers only taking lighting and time into account. But realise your supplied info means little as you at best stated simply that you grew 0.91 grams per watt of lighting out put. I can say I grew 1.81 grams per watt of light out put. Neither really say much as all cost must be considered including nute costs per gram of buds produced.


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## MediMary (May 29, 2010)

i wonder how long fatman is going to banned for?
he gets banned at the the growing sites for talking smack to others..


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## freeze600cc (May 29, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> The issue with hydrogen peroxide is that it is a one shot disinfectant. It has no residual effect. This maens it disinfects as soon ans it is added but wiy thin minutes it no longer has any disinfectant abilities. Chlorine is capable of the initaial disinfrction plus any nt used up by the initial disfctio actions remanins in the solution as a disinfectant to keep the system sterile typically for 24 hours. Hydrogen peroxide does not and can not do this. Neither hydrogen peroxide nor chlorine should be used to whiten the roots but only to kill the bacteria that cause the roots to become brown.
> 
> By the way saying something like 2 lbs per light really isn't an indication of a good yield or an efficient syaytem or iany refection on the cost of the grow, unless you also include the time involved. you are just saying *(16 ounces/lb * 2 lb* 28.35 grams/ounce / 1000 watts)= 0.912 grams per watt. However now consider time. If the power cost $0.25/kwh and it took 6 weeks of veg at 16 hrs/day and 6 weeks of budding at 12 hours per day [(0.25 khh* kwh/1000 watts * 1000 watts * 16 hrs/day * 7 days/wk * 6 weeks) + (0.25 kwh * kwh/1000 watts * 1000 watts * 12 hrs/day * 7 days/wk * 6 weeks)/(2lbs*16 ounces/lb* 28.35 grams/ounce]= $294 in electricity for lighting for 2 pounds. $294/(2 lbs * 16 ounces/ lb *28.35 grams/ounce)] = $0.332* gram for lighting costs assuming you use the same lighting throught out but simply change the lighting cycle.
> 
> ...


The mans a genius though lol


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## fLaPzZ (May 29, 2010)

MediMary said:


> i wonder how long fatman is going to banned for?
> he gets banned at the the growing sites for talking smack to others..


It's a pity though, as he supplies really detailed info thats hard to come by.


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## MediMary (May 29, 2010)

yeah.. kinda of a jerk sometimes.. but he is smart.. he just needs to learn to play well with others


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## MediMary (May 29, 2010)

Im honestly bummed he is gone, although fdd warned him a few times, I hope its just a temp ban, he was just about to do some diagrams for us.


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## fLaPzZ (May 30, 2010)

yeah I could really do with some more pics / diagrams of his system, as I was just starting to get my head round it. I'm still gonna try and build it though.


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## MediMary (May 30, 2010)

hey flapzz thanks for the private message.
+rep for yah.. thanks bro


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## OMG LS6 (May 30, 2010)

For someone that says he has a PHD blah blah he sure spends a lot of time on forums posting info....Why is it that on every forum board there is always a guy that thinks he knows everything and has a great job and is better than everyone? Oh the internets


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## UrbanAerO (May 31, 2010)

I'd yes his efficiency may be better but he did not take into account my space is not much larger than his (10X5), I finish clone to harvest in 3 months, veg under t5 ho's for 3weeks, and my liquid cooled 1000watt hps runs on a track, and get 40 plants in one room. I get small plants with large, quality budds but good info on the peroxide, not going to use it yet but still don't know what dillution rate to use, ive heard 3%.


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## dinobelly (May 31, 2010)

UrbanAerO said:


> I'd yes his efficiency may be better but he did not take into account my space is not much larger than his (10X5), I finish clone to harvest in 3 months, veg under t5 ho's for 3weeks, and my liquid cooled 1000watt hps runs on a track, and get 40 plants in one room. I get small plants with large, quality budds but good info on the peroxide, not going to use it yet but still don't know what dillution rate to use, ive heard 3%.


Urban - tell me about the liquid cooled 1000 watt / light rail combo........thinking of doing the same thing. Any rants or raves? Do you still need to cool the room, or does the liquid cooled light combo take care of that? Thanks!


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## GreenThumbSucker (May 31, 2010)

OMG LS6 said:


> For someone that says he has a PHD blah blah he sure spends a lot of time on forums posting info....Why is it that on every forum board there is always a guy that thinks he knows everything and has a great job and is better than everyone? Oh the internets


He breathed new life into this forum. He is the single most important resource this community has. He bruised the wrong egos, apparently. If he is gone for good it is a huge loss for this board.


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## calikid96 (Jun 5, 2010)

just had that same problem I just switched from plain tap water to technefloras boost,grow,thrive,magical and suggar daddy to my 10 gal dwc at half strengh my within about an hour my roots turned from a nice white color to brown they still seem super healthy but this is my first grow so I'm not to sure


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## Mjane75 (Aug 20, 2010)

dipstick said:


> thanks alot eneryone for the info


still wont help a stupid person though.


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## Jrosek (Jul 9, 2012)

I know its been a lomg time... has anyone seen fatman or know where he hangs his hat??


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