# Aeroponic vert mini-sog



## rryyddeerr (Oct 23, 2013)

Planning on sneaking this in the corner of my flower tent. I have 15-20 cuttings taken off my girl in flower that I plan to divide between the available slots. A pump in the bucket will push water to the very top. It will splash and fall over the roots on its way back to the bucket. Plan on securing the clones with hydroton. There is rigid plastic mesh inside that will keep it in the slots.

thoughts?


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 23, 2013)

These ladies


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## Nizza (Oct 23, 2013)

great work! I can't wait to see this!


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## Nizza (Oct 23, 2013)

btw this is technically bubbleponics


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## Nizza (Oct 23, 2013)

i think unless there is a medium your pump will have to run 24/7 and cause heat issues.


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks me too. But I thought bubble ponics required bubbles. 
Running the pump on a 15 on/15 off timer. Is hydroton not considered a medium?


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## MrMeanGreen (Oct 24, 2013)

It will probably get clogged with roots, nice idea and my work with bigger piping.


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 24, 2013)

Hopefully, not. It's a 3" ID pipe. Water will just have to flow down through the roots. If the pump is only pushing a modest flow rate it shouldn't back up. If it does, I can trim and make it bigger next time. 

This is is a test run. The plan is to line the walls of a 4x4 tent with several of these linked together.


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## Bud Candy Man (Oct 24, 2013)

Do your clones have buds on them ?


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 24, 2013)

Yes, they do


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 28, 2013)

got 12 clones started in the "tree-of-green" today. mixed 5 gallons of RO with 3tsp of big bloom, tiger bloom and grow big. 500ppm, 5.5ph. pump running water through the system is 400gph. pics tomorrow.


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 29, 2013)

You know what's really funny? With a submersible pump running, my ph pen reads 11-14.5. Hilarious


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## Nizza (Oct 29, 2013)

Is the pump a magnetic drive? This isn't aero if your using hydroton, it would be a drip setup (drain to waste)


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 29, 2013)

Decided to go bare roots, as this is how my cloner is set up. They have neoprene plugs. Thanks for the clarification.


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 29, 2013)

And it's recirculating.


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## supchaka (Oct 29, 2013)

Yeah I was gonna say thats not drain to waste  Although I do prefer it, it obviously wouldnt be feasible in that setup


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## Dogenzengi (Oct 29, 2013)

Looks like a Cool idea!
Is it just a straight up pipe inside sitting on a submersed pump spilling out in the top cap?
I.E redneck kidee shower.
Redneck kidee shower - 
bury bucket put in pump with vertical pipe topped with an elbow.
fill bucket with clean River rocks and water.
Plug in pump to let kid shower, Protect cord with a GFI circuit!
Dont fry your Child!


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 29, 2013)

that sounds like it. I've got some plastic mesh thats originally designed to act as a "gutter-guard" type of product rolled up and chopped to the length of each section running up and down. it breaks the flow of water and splashes it around and will give the roots something to grab. like i said before, this is just an experiment. I'm still at the point where i don't want to throw out perfectly usable would-be clones/cuttings. these were just culled from the large number of bud sites on my plant in flower that were never going to get good light. now, hopefully, they will. 
and thanks!


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 31, 2013)

These are growing already. Pics this pm


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 31, 2013)

They seem to be enjoying the flower tent much more than the cloner


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## Abiqua (Oct 31, 2013)

Can I rip this off, hehe, but as a mini version? 

I have a 35gpm from my old cloner, will push to about 3 feet and quit, but I have been thinking of a quick vert setup for a while. I have about 100w's of LED's to shine on them in on either side. 

Damn, might just do this....
Aye carumba good chit, easy clean design, buy the shit anywhere.


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## rryyddeerr (Oct 31, 2013)

Do it up. Post up pics if you do and enlighten me with any improvements you think up?


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## Abiqua (Oct 31, 2013)

rryyddeerr said:


> Do it up. Post up pics if you do and enlighten me with any improvements you think up?


If you get a chance maybe you can answer a couple of questions, because I do have some thoughts.....fawk yeah I have some thoughts, what a cool setup. 



The CAP on top, saw that you put webbing up top to diffuse, good idea!



Medium, are you going to pack the column with hydroton? or just the sleeves right at the girls roots?
 I thought a packed column of coarse vermiculite for me could make sense.

15 on / 15 0ff outdoor timer right? I haven't seen any indoor [household] timers in 15 min increments?
How much water are you putting back in? Enough to last a week without re-topping?


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## Abiqua (Oct 31, 2013)

I have most of everything already for the build, even a 4" and 3" toilet flange to boot. 

I have a Jebao 185 gph pump with a 59" head. [don't know where the hell 35gpm came from] 

I also have a 1.5 gallon sqare bucket [same dims. as a 4 gallon] and a 3 gallon round............... don't know which to use for the reservoir. The square is shorter but not by much [8" to 10" for the 3gallon round] 

I am thinking of using 4 in pipe at maybe 25" + the reservoir height, maybe 3 to 4 girls.


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## Abiqua (Oct 31, 2013)

Have you thought about any ppm fluc-tuations from recirc-ing? Does a re-circ gain or lose ppm compared over time?


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## MrMeanGreen (Nov 1, 2013)

OP.... if your planning on running many of these, ya might want to consider tweeking the feed system a little and use a central res that feeds each pot using Archimedes principle, ie the level of your main res will be then same is all your surrounding pots. No extra pumps required and will give you easier access to maintain and monitor ppm's, ph etc. Keep the central res happy and all your pots will be happy.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 1, 2013)

Abiqua said:


> If you get a chance maybe you can answer a couple of questions, because I do have some thoughts.....fawk yeah I have some thoughts, what a cool setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


webbing extends from top to bottom. 
I have bare roots right now. Hopefully roots can grab and hold on to mesh
i want to be able to take the column down piece by piece without media falling out. Kiss
i have it running sans timer right now as I have not observed high res temps
full five gallons, so I should be able to wait a week before playing with it. As they grow, I will have to address them more frequently


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 1, 2013)

Abiqua said:


> I have most of everything already for the build, even a 4" and 3" toilet flange to boot.
> 
> I have a Jebao 185 gph pump with a 59" head. [don't know where the hell 35gpm came from]
> 
> ...


Sounds great!!


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 1, 2013)

MrMeanGreen said:


> OP.... if your planning on running many of these, ya might want to consider tweeking the feed system a little and use a central res that feeds each pot using Archimedes principle, ie the level of your main res will be then same is all your surrounding pots. No extra pumps required and will give you easier access to maintain and monitor ppm's, ph etc. Keep the central res happy and all your pots will be happy.


Exactly what I plan to put together in half my tent after my next vert scrog grow. Probably early February. I'm thinking 8-10 tubes linked together to an external res under my tent as half the tents contents and ~6 plants in soil on the opposite side. All centered around a pair of stacked, bare bulbs.


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## Red1966 (Nov 1, 2013)

rryyddeerr said:


> Thanks me too. But I thought bubble ponics required bubbles. Running the pump on a 15 on/15 off timer. Is hydroton not considered a medium?


 Yes, it is. If you get one of those modified timers, you can run 1 minute "on" and 5 "off". This worked well in a low pressure aeroponic system I built.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 2, 2013)

Wouldn't you know it? Page 186 of cervante's growers bible features a photo of a commercially produced version of this exact idea. Called "the cage" made by THC BC. 2500$ supposedly works well


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 3, 2013)

Today. They are outpacing clones taken at the same time but planted in soil by a factor of at least 3


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## MrMeanGreen (Nov 4, 2013)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-Hedgehog-Gutter-Brush-Guard-Products-Multi-Listing-All-Sizes-Clips-/181107657275?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2a2adb8a3b

This could be the answer to your potential root problem and stop all your roots grouping up on one side of your pipe. Might even give it a go myself. Put one of these down the center of your main tube, it will give the roots a medium to build around and your feed will dissipate better. Thank me later....


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 4, 2013)

From what I can tell, I already have a similar mesh product running from top to bottom of this tube. Hard to take pics at this point though. It's cut into lengths the same as each vertical section. Roots are grabbing it and water is getting tossed by it. There is nothing else in the tube other than roots. I really don't think it's going to clog up.


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## Nizza (Nov 4, 2013)

i think it would be cool to see this but with sprayers inside instead of a top drip system, i still can't really grasp this, the water is trickling down the tube over the roots?


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 4, 2013)

I considered sprayers but thought it would be better to move as much water as possible by leaving the end of the pipe open. Pump temps would be cooler with more water passing through it and there is nothing to clog. It's working. Plants are growing rapidly. Even more so than my dwc.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 7, 2013)

New rule: no mixing nutes while stoned.


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## whodatnation (Nov 7, 2013)

rryyddeerr said:


> New rule: no mixing nutes while *too* *stoned*.


Fixed that for ya  but totally agree,,, when mixing nutes that one little chore needs your undivided and complete attention,,, THEN its back to "fuck it" mode 

Love the system you got there!


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## ilikecheetoes (Nov 7, 2013)

they look overwatered to me in all the pics. maybe give them 15 minutes on/off or some kind of break. or more aeration or something?


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## Abiqua (Nov 7, 2013)

Good chit going on here, glad its working out, can't wait for the finish!


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 8, 2013)

Just like with my dwc bucket still in veg, these have developed rust colored spots and are getting curly and pissy looking. I check ph every day. I use RO supplemented with CalMg. I am using FF hydro trio. I have mixed each batch of nutes slightly stronger to keep them from burning. 
Think I can run them on just water for a day to flush? 
I did realize that the whole system was completely closed. So, I removed the plug I had installed on the lid to keep the power plugs from yanking around. That should allow for more air to get pulled up into the column. I may try to arrange for a way for air to enter the top of the column. That way, the water would actually pull fresh air down the tube as it's falling. 
I still have no idea what I'm doing with hydro. The dwc bucket plant I have looks pretty bad.spots. Wrinkles. But it's growth is still far outpacing my plants in soil. So at least it's not dying and I have some time to figure out what's pissing her off. 

And thanks for the complements.
hope everyone has a great day.


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## whodatnation (Nov 8, 2013)

Try taking it easy on the nutes and go from there. Using tap or RO water? Tap doesn't need the extra cal/mag.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 8, 2013)

RO. I'll see what they look like this afternoon. Maybe I can just water down the nutes I mixed up yesterday to replace the science project from the day before


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 8, 2013)

Cut nutes down to 400ppm in my dwc and TROG. Also drilled several holes in the top cap of the TROG and inserted some bendy straws to facilitate air intake/exchange. Got some fun pics of the ordeal.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 8, 2013)

Functioning.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 8, 2013)

Ouchy leaves.


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## Ammastor (Nov 8, 2013)

Kinda like this setup. Interesting. 

Do you aerrate your tube at all with stone to add oxygen to the water? Or is there a vent somewhere that allows for air intake? Just curious I like the setup.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 9, 2013)

Ammastor said:


> Kinda like this setup. Interesting.
> 
> Do you aerrate your tube at all with stone to add oxygen to the water? Or is there a vent somewhere that allows for air intake? Just curious I like the setup.


Refer to this post:

https://www.rollitup.org/vertical-growing/742815-aeroponic-vert-mini-sog-5.html#post9807279


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## Abiqua (Nov 12, 2013)

rryyddeerr said:


> Ouchy leaves.View attachment 2887216


I can feel the hurt, wtf is the pH? All kinds of nasty there. How did the burn start? from the tips or from petioles [leaf branch] out towards the leaves?


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## Abiqua (Nov 12, 2013)

rryyddeerr said:


> Cut nutes down to 400ppm in my dwc and TROG. Also drilled several holes in the top cap of the TROG and inserted some bendy straws to facilitate air intake/exchange. Got some fun pics of the ordeal.


Lots of awesome here. When I 1st opened my big mouth about doing a mini version, that netting is exactly what I had in mind, I have a big azt role of it, sitting here. Coincidence? 

Unfortunately I will have to wait, low on funds and need another cab for a vert. But you are proving it works! 

I have been trolling Craigslist free for a Server Rack case, side lighting with LEd Bulbs and this system, has me intrigued on idea #3 so far. 

Keep it up, good show!


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 12, 2013)

Abiqua said:


> I can feel the hurt, wtf is the pH? All kinds of nasty there. How did the burn start? from the tips or from petioles [leaf branch] out towards the leaves?


Started from toward the tips. Ph 5.8-6.2 been running a really weak nute solution for 3 days & they still look pissed. Water is probably 75-80. 
Spots are hitting lower fan leaves first. 
Im thinking Mg def.
ill shoot more pics tonight


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## powerslide (Nov 12, 2013)

Water temp is 75-80? If so that's the issue it needs to be 70 or below, you will get the rot and water has less DO the higher the temp


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## Abiqua (Nov 12, 2013)

^ you could also just add a bit of H202 for rot and DO. 


pH sounds good......are you using just Mangesium [like epsom] or a Calmag?


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 12, 2013)

Using calmag. Also using h2o2. Took out the pump I had in the res just pushing water around and put in an air stone. I am a big fan of vigorous water movement from my days as an avid keeper of aquariums. I mixed some new nutes using 4.5 gallons of RO / 8 tsp calmag/ 1tsp of h2o2/ 8 tsp of tiger bloom/ 8 tsp big bloom/ 6 ml of ph up. 900ppm 5.5 ph. 

That said, it all actually looks worse, roots are darkening and growth has come to a crawl. Fingers crossed. I got some good mothers if I gotta start over, but I don't really wanna.


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## powerslide (Nov 13, 2013)

You have the rot!! Water temps over 70 for extended periods will get it eventually. I run sterile res w/ moon dust nutes. First run I ever did was with them all the way, tried to incorporate others in and never worked that great. Back to the dust for me. But moral of the story throw some frozen bottles in the res daily to keep temps below 70


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 13, 2013)

You are right! I started a batch of Heisenbergs tea this afternoon. ALso bought some of the strong h2o2 for when I need to cleanse. Plants looked happier today. I'm hoping that all the amazing reviews that microbe tea received are deserved. We shall see. My fingers are crossed. Thanks for the help!


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## powerslide (Nov 13, 2013)

I think you are misunderstanding the point of benni's/tea. If you run that you don't use h2o2, h2o2 kills them and sterilizes everything. They are counter acting each other. I run strictly chem nutes and sterile res w/ help of h2o2


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## powerslide (Nov 13, 2013)

Thanks for the rep, I know how terrible it is to fight the rot!!


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 14, 2013)

powerslide said:


> I think you are misunderstanding the point of benni's/tea. If you run that you don't use h2o2, h2o2 kills them and sterilizes everything. They are counter acting each other. I run strictly chem nutes and sterile res w/ help of h2o2


No misunderstanding. Use of h2o2 to clear out a res in between solution changes keeps things in check. I have no intention of running them at the same time.


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## forcedaspiration (Nov 14, 2013)

Bingo ryder. Run strong h2o2 then flush and switch to the microbe tea. If you can take it apart use dish soap and warm water to scrub any bio film. Baking soda is good to use as a cleanser also. This shit is real tough to get rid of so try not to depend to much on the h2o2 to disinfect. Scrub what you are able to as well. Make sure the roots are thoroughly doused or even better submerged in H2o2 water. You may be able to survive at that temp but an external res, more water=more stable temps, especially if the remote res is away from the light heat. A chiller is really ideal or even required imho unless you are doing constant rez swaps...just a hard lesson I learned recently


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## forcedaspiration (Nov 14, 2013)

It dawned on me that you may are probably bleeding light through the white pvc. That is a huge problem and can be solved with some mylar or tinfoil Christmas wrapping. Take a piece outside and hold it up to the sun, do you see any light through the wall?


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## powerslide (Nov 14, 2013)

rryyddeerr said:


> No misunderstanding. Use of h2o2 to clear out a res in between solution changes keeps things in check. I have no intention of running them at the same time.


Sorry about the misunderstanding on my part grow on brother!!


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 15, 2013)

My guess is that there are not any leaks through the PVC. I will take a scrap piece and try to see if I can get any light through it. But as you see in this pic, very little direct light reaches the tower.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 15, 2013)

forcedaspiration said:


> It dawned on me that you may are probably bleeding light through the white pvc. That is a huge problem and can be solved with some mylar or tinfoil Christmas wrapping. Take a piece outside and hold it up to the sun, do you see any light through the wall?


Foil backed duct insulation would be great too and serve to prevent root zone temp swings.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 23, 2013)

Growth has steadily increased. They are much larger than I thought they would get. Also, I had a light leak about two weeks ago that was never a problem till I needed to be in the same room for several hours during while the plants had night. They began throwing out spiral leaves and single finger leaves soon after. I figured out what happened, fixed the leaks and they are still doing it. It's been about a week. How long does it take for a plant to get back to normal leaves?


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## MrMeanGreen (Nov 26, 2013)

curling single leaves...... sounds to me like they have revegged


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 27, 2013)

^ What he said. Could take a couple of weeks to start blooming again. Heat stress can also cause plants to reveg. Did you get your root temps under control?

Spotted leaf pics on the other page look like potassium and phosphorous deficiency. pH fluctuation can cause it, as can root rot: anaerobic bacteria (pythium, which causes root rot) will cause your pH to fall instead of slowly rise and also interfere with nutrient uptake through the roots.

Excess calcium and magnesium will both lock out potassium, so if you are overdoing it with the cal-mag - or have misdiagnosed your problem - you may be doing more harm than good. Could be exacerbated by slight phosphorus deficiency.

It looks like you're not using a dedicated hydro nutrient. Hydro has no buffer - unlike soil and coco - so it is very easy to get your nutrients and pH out of wack if you don't know exactly what you are feeding your plants. I wouldn't second-guess things by adding "a little bit of this a little bit of that" - get yourself a reliable hydro nutrient, stick to what it says on the bottle, and set you pH to about 5.3 and let it slowly drift upwards. Allowing your pH to drift will make different nutrients more or less available at different pH levels. Your plant will uptake and store what it needs, so you don't need to keep your pH dead on whatever it is.


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 27, 2013)

rryyddeerr said:


> Started from toward the tips. Ph 5.8-6.2 been running a really weak nute solution for 3 days & they still look pissed. Water is probably 75-80.
> Spots are hitting lower fan leaves first.
> Im thinking Mg def.
> ill shoot more pics tonight


^ PK. That pH is too high for hydro. I note you later adjusted it to 5.5 - make sure it doesn't creep up much over 6 or fall below 5.

In a healthy system, pH will always slowly rise. If your pH starts to fall, you have problems (root rot etc).


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 30, 2013)

wow. thanks so much for the advice and careful consideration of my grow. obviously, I'm still learning. my first grow is just about ready to harvest, so I'm relatively familiar with soil, but this hydro jazz has me scratching my head on a weekly basis. its been almost three weeks since the photo period got messed up by a light leak bad enough to do so. the leaves outside the window to my basement fell, allowing the sun to pan across my whole flower tent for a couple hours a day. once i figured it out, i remedied the situation, but the symptoms of the problem persist. my first girl that is in late flower has a decent amount of bud that seems to still be developing nicely, even though she is only producing the single, weird leaves. 
the other plants in the tower are the ones that are growing at what seems to be a crazy rate. i woefully underestimated the height they would need. 
anyway, I'm fairly certain that the spotting and leaf torture in the previous pics were a result of root rot. i have treated the problem with beneficial bacteria cultures, the recipe for which i learned about on Heisenberg's thread in the bubbleponics forum. it really helped to turn around the slowed growth rate, but the spots are still there. my suspicion is that there is still rot in root areas where i cannot reach or disassemble due to the basic construction design of the tower. 
Ph is really steady since adding the bennies too. whatever i mix it to is where it stays. i have to add about 1/3 of a gallon of nute solution every day. consumption has dropped slightly since i lollied all but the newest addition to the tower. 

I'm fairly convinced that the light leak situation has been solved also. i have added three new plants to the tent since taking action to seal out the light and none of them are showing the slightest signs of stress that the others exhibit. at least, i am very hopeful that is the case. 

thanks again.


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## rryyddeerr (Nov 30, 2013)

[video=youtube_share;k2rqUlYN1m8]http://youtu.be/k2rqUlYN1m8[/video]


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## Prawn Connery (Nov 30, 2013)

Root rot has a few tell-tale signs in addition to brown, smelly roots. Because it interferes with nutrient uptake, and because phosphorus is so important to structure and growth, you generally notice a P deficiency first: weak, red stems; brittle branches; purpling leaves; stunted growth; and then yellowing, dying leaves as other nutrients are affected. An early P deficiency then becomes an overall nutrient deficiency (at least, that's how it appears).

I mention this, because severe root rot won't just cause a few spots on your leaves. It will also spread and affect all plants connected to the infected root system.

Far more common is for those new to hydro to have a few teething problems with maintaining pH and the correct nutrient balance - especially in recirculating systems. It's even harder to control these things when you are not using a tried and tested nutrient formula - that's why I suggested using a dedicated hydro nutrient for the first few grows until you get the hang of things.

Until you are familiar with everything you are feeding your plants, it's hard to know what they might be missing, or which nutrients might be locking out others. Hydro can be tricky because without a substrate to buffer any nutrient imbalance, it quickly shows up in the plant.

There are some very good organic-based hydro nutrients out there - I use them myself - so if you prefer to remain organic, that may be an option for you.


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## rryyddeerr (Dec 1, 2013)

So, am I to understand you correctly that you don't advocate the use of Fox Farms Trio? I have heard nothing but stellar opinions about FF products.


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## Prawn Connery (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm not familiar with Fox Farm where I am, but I thought they produced mainly soil fertilisers. What you have may be fine, but if you are adding extras such as cal-mag and teas etc, then you may have inadvertently unbalanced your nutrient ratios. The presence of too much of one nutrient, for example, can lock out others and look like a nutrient deficiency when really you are overdoing it. It can also take a little while to see what works best in a particular set-up and/or with a particular strain, as not all hydro nutrients are created equal. The difference between a good nutrient and an average one can be quite measurable.


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## Prawn Connery (Dec 1, 2013)

Also, there are a couple of other things I've noticed:


rryyddeerr said:


> You know what's really funny? With a submersible pump running, my ph pen reads 11-14.5. Hilarious


^ Are you sure your pH pen is working correctly? They can be notoriously unreliable . . .



rryyddeerr said:


> Using calmag. Also using h2o2. Took out the pump I had in the res just pushing water around and put in an air stone. I am a big fan of vigorous water movement from my days as an avid keeper of aquariums. I mixed some new nutes using 4.5 gallons of RO / 8 tsp calmag/ 1tsp of h2o2/ 8 tsp of tiger bloom/ 8 tsp big bloom/ 6 ml of ph up. 900ppm 5.5 ph.



Now, cal-mag is usually pretty alkaline, and you're also adding a lot of pH Up to get to 5.5. You're using RO water - which should be pH7 - so either those Fox farm nutrients are SUPER acidic, or something is up with your pH pen.

Those plants did look like they were having pH problems, and my guess is the pH may be too high, or you are adding too much cal-mag, or possibly a combination of both.

With the organic-based nutrients I use, I need to use about 5ml (1tsp) of pH Down (not Up) per 50 litres (13 gallons) of nutrient using pH7.4 water to get to about 5.8. My organic hydro nutrients are acidic, but nowhere near as acidic as yours appear to be.


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## rryyddeerr (Dec 1, 2013)

Im going to forego using CalMag for a week and see what comes of it. Not in my soil, only hydro. 
Im confident that the ph pen i working properly. RO is 7ph and 18ppm out of the spigot. 
The Fox Farm Big Bloom is very acidic. Very.
My DWC plant is doing really well.
I am using the same ph pen and Hanna tds pen for both grows. 
As far as the ph pen acting funny as per my previous comment, Its only when there is one particular pump running in the tower res. When I unplug it, the pen reads normally. 

I am going to stick with this Nutrient brand for the time being. Many people have had great results from it. I believe there is something besides any possible shortcomings with FF products at play here, causing my plants to stress or suffer some imbalance. 
Thank you, again, for such careful consideration of my dilemma. Happy growing!


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## Prawn Connery (Dec 2, 2013)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to find fault with anything, I'm just trying to rule out possibilities. As mentioned, root rot will also lower pH, so that could be part of it. Higher reservoir temperatures can also affect pH.

It's probably worth calibrating your pH pen not just to pH7 but pH4 as well (if you haven't done so already) so that it reads the entire scale properly. Typically, when I calibrate my pH pen it may read fine at pH7, but then it will be slightly out at pH4 (sometimes as much as 0.5pH reading). It's the little things that all add up.


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