# Legalisation: Why The Idea SUCKS



## KushKrew (May 4, 2013)

Hey All, 

Well I know I'm going against the grain here...

Legalisation of reefer? Guys, have you been paying attention to what happens with commercial crops? Have you noticed how hard it is to find non-GM food?

Reefer treated like big business is a SHIT idea. You think you'll survive as a grower when competing with guys that have many many acres of mechanised land? 

Second, once legal, it'll be open for modification by assholes like Montsanto and their trans-gene technology.

Quality control my ass, we'll have all sorts of impurities, I'm willing to wager the first thing companies will do is try make it addictive, it's good money. 

Why do we not trust ourselves, the underground? Reefer is in good hands. We are taking care of it like nothing else on this planet has been taken care of. We have advanced the plant, we have a RELATIONSHIP with it.

So fucking what if they want to persecute us for it, at least they're not gassing us like they did to people for simply having a religion a while ago. They drag us through court and try break us by taking all our money. Well do this shit right and there's enough money to fight back.

Legalisation is a way to get us to roll over. 

Just my 2 cents on the topic, but as far as reefer goes, the last hands I want to see it in, is government.

Surge


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## vuttomundo (May 4, 2013)

Yes i know!

Being able to get marijuana from a safe legal source SUCKS!
Not being forced to get marijuana from dangerous criminals off the black market SUCKS!
Smoking a joint in my home and not having the cops bust down my door SUCKS!
Having the right to grow marijuana in my own home SUCKS!


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## Rak on Tur' (May 4, 2013)

vuttomundo said:


> Yes i know!
> 
> Being able to get marijuana from a safe legal source SUCKS!
> Not being forced to get marijuana from dangerous criminals off the black market SUCKS!
> ...


Dangerous criminals? That's as true as the gateway theory that DARE loves to use.


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## ILoveYouSweetLeaf (May 5, 2013)

tend to agree with you on how companies will try to dominate it add shit to it.

quote
"So fucking what if they want to persecute us for it"

will you say the same thing if you are behind thick steel bars?


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## Medical Grade (May 5, 2013)

yea did you see what they have done to tomatoes?! fuck now every one has tomatoes!


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## Rancho Cucamonga (May 5, 2013)

First off, marijuana will never be legal federally. As for what will happen with states IDK, but most states will not legalize at state level. At any time the feds could come out for or against state rights, and to be honest IMO, the only reason Obama hasn't made a move one way or another is because he doesn't want this decision made during his term, as most president's wouldn't. Almost every single head of every single government agency, almost every politician, and most of congress are against any legalization even at state levels. Even if a president wanted legal they would have to not only go through congress but they would have to go through all the LE agencies who are dead set against legalization of any kind. If I were a betting man I'd bet marijuana will not only remain illegal at the federal level and for most state's, but marijuana will not be re-scheduled and current legal rec and medical will become more restrictive and taxed higher. Medical might get to half of the states in 5-10 years, but even most of those are not true "legal" as most med states have endless restrictions and regulations. 
I believe rec marijuana will fail at every level. 

That said. I'm against LEGALIZATION THROUGH REGULATION AND TAXATION. Not only would it do the things you and I mention, but I have no desire to give federal, state, county or city governments MORE MONEY. Government at every level have a horrible track record of how they spend tax dollars. The few politicians that are for legalization of some kind are ALL in it for tax revenue, nothing more.


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## Rancho Cucamonga (May 5, 2013)

Rak on Tur' said:


> Dangerous criminals? That's as true as the gateway theory that DARE loves to use.


Weed was my gateway drug. Just saying. Although I never became addicted to hard drugs or booze. But to say it's never a gateway drug is not true. But I agree with you on the dangerous criminals thing, all my dealers over the years were the coolest people one could met. Unless you are buying weed from gangbangers there are really no "dangerous criminals" selling weed.


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## Jimdamick (May 5, 2013)

One thing I know for sure, making any money off growing it will be hard to do for the small grower. Already because of Colorado prices in CT have dropped like 20%. I grow for my head mainly, but I liked to make some money on the side. Prices these day's make it not even worthwhile growing except for yourself.


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## Rak on Tur' (May 5, 2013)

Rancho Cucamonga said:


> Weed was my gateway drug. Just saying. Although I never became addicted to hard drugs or booze. But to say it's never a gateway drug is not true. But I agree with you on the dangerous criminals thing, all my dealers over the years were the coolest people one could met. Unless you are buying weed from gangbangers there are really no "dangerous criminals" selling weed.


I won't deny that it can be the first drug a person tries, then they try something else. But how much of that is just youthful experimentation? It's just the stereotype that if a person smokes pot they automatically become a candidate for heroin use that some groups try to sell I take issues with. Same with so called criminals that some claim is rampant in the pot market. Sure, there is some. But not on any sort of massive scale. After spending 49 years on and off as a trooper I never saw the connection. In all those years I can think of only three cases were I would define the person caught as a criminal.

I agree with you totally on your statement on taxes. I have always felt a person should only be charged income taxes. Nothing more.


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## ILoveYouSweetLeaf (May 6, 2013)

Medical Grade said:


> yea did you see what they have done to tomatoes?! fuck now every one has tomatoes!


don't know if that was for me.
I was referring to what I have heard about how Monsanto sues farmers for saving seeds. how some farmers get sued because there fields can get contaminated from near bye Monsanto fields.


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## aknight3 (May 7, 2013)

cannabis is already owned by the USA if you didnt know, they patented cannabinoids in 2005 i beleive, pretty fucked up if you ask me.


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## TheGreenMaester (May 9, 2013)

aknight3 said:


> cannabis is already owned by the USA if you didnt know, they patented cannabinoids in 2005 i beleive, pretty fucked up if you ask me.


Got a link supporting this claim? I don't think you patent a class of molecules.

Either way I would like to see it legalized. Yes Montsanto does things with food crops, but what do you think they will do with cannabis? Are they involved in the tobacco industry to any extent? My belief is that people can still grow high quality cannabis even if they legalize it and it becomes a mainstream product that corporations produce en masse. The same with alcohol. There exists premium beers versus cheap brans such as Keystone or PBR.


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## Edwardo Ruffian (May 19, 2013)

Here is a link to the patent mentioned. http://www.google.com/patents/US6630507


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## Kervork (May 19, 2013)

Gubbmint wants to legalize it so they can tax it. Tobacco companies want to legalize it so they can sell it. It's all about the money which in the end will turn it into a big problem, just like tobacco.

The best thing they could do is ignore it. Fewer people would wind up smoking it then. The solution involves removing the profitability, not mass marketing. If someone wants to grow it in their back yard and secretly sell to a few friends fine. If someone wants to monocrop 100 acres and mass market, no.


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## aknight3 (May 19, 2013)

ty guy for posting link, i can promise you the USA govt DOES have a patent for marijuana cannabinoids, just look on the patent office offical website...this is not a 'claim' this is pure 100% public knowledge and fact, if you didnt already know this and your a 'pothead', you should take a close look at how you receive and process your information intake.dont worry, i wouldnt repeat something if i didnt know it to be true, this not being a claim, it is fact. later



edit nevermind, ill do it for you


_*Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants
US 6630507 B1
Abstract
*
_Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia. Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention. A particular disclosed class of cannabinoids useful as neuroprotective antioxidants is formula (I) wherein the R group is independently selected from the group consisting of H, CH3, and COCH3.


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## aknight3 (May 19, 2013)

*Publication number	US6630507 B1
Publication type	Grant
Application number	09/674,028
Publication date	Oct 7, 2003
Filing date	Apr 21, 1999
Priority date	Apr 21, 1998
Also published as	EP1071419A1
EP1071419B1
WO1999053917A1
Less «
2 More »

Inventors	Aidan J. Hampson
Julius Axelrod
Maurizio Grimaldi
Less «
2 More »
Original Assignee	The United States Of America As Represented By The Department Of Health And Human Services

U.S. Classification	514/454
International Classification	A61K31/352
A61P25/00
A61K31/05
C07D311/80
A61P25/16
G01N33/15
A61K31/09
A61P39/06
A61K31/12
A61P9/00
A61P25/28
A61P43/00
A61K31/35
Less «
12 More »
Cooperative Classification	A61K31/35
European Classification	A61K31/35

References	Patent Citations (22)
Non-Patent Citations (29)
Referenced by (10)


External Links	USPTO
USPTO Assignment
Espacenet
Less «
2 More »*


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## SlaveNoMore (May 19, 2013)

I'm a bit extreme on this one.

I say full legalization or nothing. This back and forth with the federal government is like watching a donkey show in tijuana. Hiding behind the whole "medical" thing will not last folks. The fed will do whatever it wants when it wants. Pot becomes unscheduled, unregulated and gets thrown to the free market for anyone to do with it what they will. I don't believe in compromising with any government over a person's rights to do whatever they please as long as they aren't hurting another person.


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## Rak on Tur' (May 19, 2013)

SlaveNoMore said:


> I'm a bit extreme on this one.
> 
> I say full legalization or nothing. This back and forth with the federal government is like watching a donkey show in tijuana. Hiding behind the whole "medical" thing will not last folks. The fed will do whatever it wants when it wants. Pot becomes unscheduled, unregulated and gets thrown to the free market for anyone to do with it what they will. I don't believe in compromising with any government over a person's rights to do whatever they please as long as they aren't hurting another person.


I wouldn't call your views extreme, I think that what your wanting is quite rational. I feel the same way, but I don't want the government setting plant number limits, expanding oversight, and having a special tax bracket with zero write offs.

I refuse to get a med card, I want no part of that garbage. I refuse to call myself a patient as well, that's a term for people that belong in the nut house.


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## TheGreenMaester (May 20, 2013)

Edwardo Ruffian said:


> Here is a link to the patent mentioned. http://www.google.com/patents/US6630507


That is seriously screwed up that they patented it. Somehow patenting plant life seems wrong.


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## 420marijuana (May 22, 2013)

that doesn't apply for cannabis. there are thousands of wine makers but there is always room for a specialty wine maker.


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## billberry11 (Jul 25, 2013)

make alcohol illegal and legalize cannabis the world will be a better place. my 0.02$


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## Gravity Man (Jul 29, 2013)

SlaveNoMore said:


> I'm a bit extreme on this one.
> 
> I say full legalization or nothing. This back and forth with the federal government is like watching a donkey show in tijuana. Hiding behind the whole "medical" thing will not last folks. The fed will do whatever it wants when it wants. Pot becomes unscheduled, unregulated and gets thrown to the free market for anyone to do with it what they will. I don't believe in compromising with any government over a person's rights to do whatever they please as long as they aren't hurting another person.


Agreed. Despite all of the possible negative consequences of legalizing marijuana, I'd like to see it grow and evolve into a new and more accepted role in society. Unscheduled, unregulated, uncompromised... We're talking about weed here, not assisted suicide.


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## Magnetar (Jul 29, 2013)

Let's patent H2O and O2 and CO2 and Nitrogen and everything else. Screw those idiots.


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## Highlowazupkush (Jul 30, 2013)

Fuck that shit, if they can make ten packs with joints in them, then I am 100% for it. But ill expect all those packs to be properly labelled and shit, if there is any GM shit in there then it has to be labelled right? lol. or else I won't buy that gm shit, ill just grow my own...biatches!!! growing weed on my own cuzz its legal? Fuck yea man, why the hell wouldn't I want that to be legal? Id grow that shit around the whole neighbour hood if it was legal. Id put pot plants fucking everywhere, lol, but in hard to reach places, cuzz you know.....




billberry11 said:


> make alcohol illegal and legalize cannabis the world will be a better place. my 0.02$


Not really, alcohol makes you drunk, why would you wanna make that illegal??  Are you crazy!?


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## TWS (Jul 31, 2013)

KushKrew said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Well I know I'm going against the grain here...
> 
> ...


 Your just a Black market monger growing for Profit and don't really care except about yourself.


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## ShopWhor3 (Aug 1, 2013)

im for legalization 100% I want everyone growing this magical herb and partaking in its greatness!


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## Collisto's Orbit (Aug 18, 2013)

Feds will fight legalization to the death because hemp means so much more than people getting high. Legal hemp will be real competition to the oil, chemical, timber, liquor, and pharmaceutical industries. They're all barely hiding behind the gateway theory of MJ dragging our children to the needle and tearing at the fabric of American society. We all know that shit ain't true, but they can get it passed the ignorant masses with the bought and paid for media. I believe the entire war on drugs is specifically waged to keep this competition down.


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## guest420 (Sep 22, 2013)

i dont feel like getting arrested or even harrassed for growing a plant in my back yard. so i would like for it to be legal to do as i am over the age of 21 and an adult. but you guys are forgetting, not only would there be markets selling weed and packs of joints like cigs but what about the seed banks. there would be a larger market selling seed strains. thats where the money will be.


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## GreenSummit (Sep 22, 2013)

jumping in late but im with you OP. unless it can stay out of the commercial zone, which it wont, we shouldnt do it.


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## DNAprotection (Sep 25, 2013)

ILoveYouSweetLeaf said:


> tend to agree with you on how companies will try to dominate it add shit to it.
> 
> quote
> "So fucking what if they want to persecute us for it"
> ...


we are only behind bars because we allow such...
we allow them to outlaw nature...
i have walked into fed court with 100,000+ very illegal cannabis seeds and also walked out with the same seeds after 3+ years of back and forth over what is constitutional and what isnt etc...
we are all born with certain unalienable rights, the problem is that 'we' really dont believe that any more and so 'we' are unable to hold that position where and when it counts be that in court or wherever...

https://www.rollitup.org/legalization-marijuana/729676-feds-contemplate-new-laws-regulate.html#post9646724

https://www.rollitup.org/politics/602854-monsanto-cannabis-yes-no-dna.html


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## racerboy71 (Sep 25, 2013)

DNAprotection said:


> we are only behind bars because we allow such...
> we allow them to outlaw nature...
> i have walked into fed court with 100,000+ very illegal cannabis seeds and also walked out with the same seeds after 3+ years of back and forth over what is constitutional and what isnt etc...
> we are all born with certain unalienable rights, the problem is that 'we' really dont believe that any more and so 'we' are unable to hold that position where and when it counts be that in court or wherever...
> ...


 Oh yeah.. I simply allowed myself to be locked up over a gram of weed, not once but twice.. silly lil old.me.. should of told the cops i was standing up for my rights and that I wouldn't allow them to arrest me.. yeah OK..

And I agree.. just legalize the shit already.. stop playing games with the med stuff and just reschedule it..
If you're afraid of the evil empire, Monsanto, stockpile genetics now and you won't have to worry about outside sources.. simple is simple..


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## DNAprotection (Sep 25, 2013)

racerboy71 said:


> Oh yeah.. I simply allowed myself to be locked up over a gram of weed, not once but twice.. silly lil old.me.. should of told the cops i was standing up for my rights and that I wouldn't allow them to arrest me.. yeah OK..
> 
> And I agree.. just legalize the shit already.. stop playing games with the med stuff and just reschedule it..
> If you're afraid of the evil empire, Monsanto, stockpile genetics now and you won't have to worry about outside sources.. simple is simple..


did you plead guilty?


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## JackTheBongRipper (Sep 25, 2013)

Free market forces will prevail once legalized. Lower costs, better quality. If big growers mess it up, nobody will buy, problem solved. We can still grow our own. Seeds are everywhere.


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## DNAprotection (Sep 26, 2013)

JackTheBongRipper said:


> Free market forces will prevail once legalized. Lower costs, better quality. If big growers mess it up, nobody will buy, problem solved. We can still grow our own. Seeds are everywhere.


yikes thats a bit like adding numbers and getting the wrong total cuz forgot to add in some of the numbers...

firstly there is no 'free market', its all entirely controlled by a host of different mechanisms, not the least of which are subsidies...(go say that 'free market' thing to a family farmer and see what happens)

secondly,'nobody will buy it', thats assuming a lot...what if corps created gov approved is the only legal weed and seed?

i'm not sure you really understand where you live bro...we ain't in Kansas any more...


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## Dan Kone (Sep 27, 2013)

KushKrew said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Well I know I'm going against the grain here...
> 
> ...


solution - be one of the assholes with the big crops and implement your own quality standards.


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## JackTheBongRipper (Sep 28, 2013)

DNAprotection said:


> yikes thats a bit like adding numbers and getting the wrong total cuz forgot to add in some of the numbers...
> 
> firstly there is no 'free market', its all entirely controlled by a host of different mechanisms, not the least of which are subsidies...(go say that 'free market' thing to a family farmer and see what happens)
> 
> ...


Oh boy. I think you're mistaken. Yes, amendment 64 in Colorado legalized weed, and made some conditions on it. But the point is it will be available to be sold to the general public, 21 and over, residents of Colorado. That's not an "entirely controlled" market. That's people who either will put down their money, generating tax dollars, or they won't. Market forces. It will depend on availability, quality, price, etc. Those are the market forces. Once they are in action there will be greedy city councils that will try to overtax it, and there will be prudent city councils that will see an opportunity to get tax revenue from surrounding counties that tax higher than they do. The whole situation will take time to level out, but the market forces will be the determining factor. Unless they try to criminalize it again, then the black market will set in with it's own forces. Lower quality, more expensive due to the risk factor.



DNAprotection said:


> secondly,'nobody will buy it', thats assuming a lot...what if corps created gov approved is the only legal weed and seed?


Government approved? What? It's not approved now and you can still get it on the black market almost everywhere. If they did something so stupid it would go underground again, very simple. Although, nobody is accounting for the fact that you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once it's legal and working in one state it will spread to others like medical marijuana did. Can't stop it really.


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## DNAprotection (Sep 28, 2013)

JackTheBongRipper said:


> Oh boy. I think you're mistaken. Yes, amendment 64 in Colorado legalized weed, and made some conditions on it. But the point is it will be available to be sold to the general public, 21 and over, residents of Colorado. That's not an "entirely controlled" market. That's people who either will put down their money, generating tax dollars, or they won't. Market forces. It will depend on availability, quality, price, etc. Those are the market forces. Once they are in action there will be greedy city councils that will try to overtax it, and there will be prudent city councils that will see an opportunity to get tax revenue from surrounding counties that tax higher than they do. The whole situation will take time to level out, but the market forces will be the determining factor. Unless they try to criminalize it again, then the black market will set it with it's own forces. Lower quality, more expensive due to the risk factor.
> 
> 
> 
> Government approved? What? It's not approved now and you can still get it on the black market almost everywhere. If they did something so stupid it would go underground again, very simple. Although, nobody is accounting for the fact that you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once it's legal and working in one state it will spread to others like medical marijuana did. Can't stop it really.


pretty sure all congress has to do is simply allow for individual state laws under the condition that the only cannabis 'cultivars' legal under each state law would be FDA approved /registered/permitted etc and i'm guessing that there would be some mechanism which would give genetically engineered plants the exclusive advantage within that process...just my opinion...and considering that Monsanto has done gene ohm mapping of cannabis under fed anti-bio-terrorism programs (at least) it seems they might be plenty ready for such a change in the law that in my opinion they are pushing hard for under the radar...

further if folks suddenly had a choice between further oppression and going to jail etc or just using legal gmo weed i think most would choose the road not leading to jail...


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## JackTheBongRipper (Sep 28, 2013)

You make a good point. Someone would choose a legal option over an illegal one in most cases. Especially as time progresses. Right now most people would have no problem doing illegal things to get weed because that's what most people are used to, but once there's a legal option you give them a choice. And as time goes by people become accustomed to doing things in a comfortable way, not a way that discomforts them. 

My problem is that you seem to think there's an evil cabal of Monsanto and senators or congressmen/women that are trying to poison us or something. 

[h=1]&#8216;Monsanto Protection Act&#8217; Killed In Senate: Controversial Provision Removed From Spending Bill[/h]
They don't seem to have as much influence as you suspect. 

Right now the current administration has signaled that the federal justice department won't interfere with state laws, barring several pretty sensible conditions. Such as no growing in national forests, no going over state lines, no selling or advertising to minors, etc. All very wise decisions as I saw it. 

They would have to go back on some of these decisions to "control" it as you think. States are pretty much doing their own thing right now and the federal government has to deal with it. They don't have the money or the manpower to go into every state and enforce a laundry list of conflicting laws, depending on the state, to try to enforce a single standard. It's practically and economically impossible. 

I think we can agree that we both love the fact that the federal government is somewhat befuddled right now. Their response has been less than draconian.


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## DNAprotection (Sep 28, 2013)

bro i didn't use that word 'evil', its not a word i use...im sorry if what i wrote led you or anyone else to interpret that...
and no one loves 'befuddling' gov more than me im guessing...(so we certainly agree on that)
but to me its all just big business plain and simple...

"They would have to go back on some of these decisions to "control" it as you think. States are pretty much doing their own thing right now and the federal government has to deal with it."

policy is not law...gov flip flops on policy whenever necessary or convenient etc, but all policy goes out the window when an authoritative law is passed which supplants any given policy...
please dont get the impression that im trying to argue here with you because im not, im just stating my opinion based on my own experience etc...


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## JackTheBongRipper (Sep 28, 2013)

DNAprotection said:


> bro i didn't use that word 'evil', its not a word i use...im sorry if what i wrote led you or anyone else to interpret that...
> and no one loves 'befuddling' gov more than me im guessing...(so we certainly agree on that)
> but to me its all just big business plain and simple...
> 
> ...


Well yeah, we're both doing that. And I think it's funny we're arguing in two different threads right now. High five. 

Government does flip flop, but right now, in real life, the response has not been negative. You're worrying about what-ifs in the future, but right now I'm telling you the reality is the government is relaxing laws. Why can't you enjoy that based on very recent history? 

The wheel turns, sure, but it always keeps on turning. Whatever nightmare scenario you envisage will still change eventually. 

I know you didn't use the word evil, I just like to embellish things.


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## DNAprotection (Sep 28, 2013)

cool high five back!
i know gov says policy is this or that, but honestly bro where i live they are out for all they can get to this day...nothing has changed here in regards to the boots on the ground policy, in fact its only gotten worse, it use to be that feds would only come in when the plant number reach a certain amount (like a thousand etc) and then up to the policy change there was many fed busts at over 150 etc but now we are seeing 40 plant fed busts of legal patients etc...im in norcal


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## JackTheBongRipper (Sep 28, 2013)

Ok well California is a different world compared to Colorado. Things seem to be advancing in positive directions year by year. We can now legally posses, buy from stores on Jan 1st, and grow up to 6 plants. I'm sure California will do more soon, but they are being weird with the "will they won't they" legalization problems. I honestly thought Colorado would be one of the last. Lots of conservative counties with cowboys.


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## DNAprotection (Sep 28, 2013)

i think CO is sort of being rewarded for passing stricter regs and CA is be punished for 215 etc all in the lead up to whatever the new fed laws will be...
everything i write is of course just my opinion though bro and i for sure respect yours as well...


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## GreyLord (Oct 5, 2013)

JackTheBongRipper said:


> Free market forces will prevail once legalized. Lower costs, better quality. If big growers mess it up, nobody will buy, problem solved. We can still grow our own. Seeds are everywhere.


Like we can make our own bourbon & grow tobacco? As soon as they legalise it into little packs with the tax label do you think they'll let us grow our own? In Aus. it is a much worse offense to grow tobacco than mj because it's depriving the Govt. of taxes.


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## ricky1lung (Oct 5, 2013)

I dont understand for the life of me why people prefer risking their freedom over a plant in opposition of legalization.

Who cares if it is taxed and regulated, you wont go to jail or have a criminal record for something so simple as 
smoking a joint.


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## Jack Harer (Oct 7, 2013)

Legalization (NOT decriminalization)is a win win for everyone. I forsee a model much like alcohol. You'll have your "Anheuser Bush", and you'll have your micro breweries. Either way, the gov't gets thiers, "brick weed", schwag, bunk,or whatever becomes a thing of the past, and we have a safe well regulated industry. That is unless Monsanto gets ahold of it. I'm pretty sure that the last thing our fearless leaders want is to be into the growing of anything, just the taxing of it. And it gets the organized crime element out of the biz (for the most part).


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