# Growing for terpenes?



## BoiseShortz (Mar 12, 2018)

Hi everyone, I have been growing for 10+ years alway knew that there was a specific flavor to weed that I just loved. Now with lab testing, I am pretty positive that it is a combo of Myrcene and Bisabolol (Kushy). Maybe there is already a thread about this that someone can direct me to? But if not I was wondering what growing techniques (other then genetics) can be used to enhance this flavor profile.


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## kingzt (Mar 12, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> Hi everyone, I have been growing for 10+ years alway knew that there was a specific flavor to weed that I just loved. Now with lab testing, I am pretty positive that it is a combo of Myrcene and Bisabolol (Kushy). Maybe there is already a thread about this that someone can direct me to? But if not I was wondering what growing techniques (other then genetics) can be used to enhance this flavor profile.


Remineralize your soil. Read about high brix gardening. I'm learning and trying it out now. Just bought a refractometer and having with it as well.


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## BoiseShortz (Mar 12, 2018)

Thanks for the advice, I had heard of high brix, but hadn't really looked into it. I am currently doing no-till with sprouted seed teas and compost teas. Do you think the compost tea could be messing with my calcium ratios.


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## cindysid (Mar 12, 2018)

@Dr.Who might chime in with some advice.


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## kratos015 (Mar 13, 2018)

The key to growing for terpenes is a combination of incredible soil and good genetics. In your case, you'd either want to find a clone that provides the flavor profile you're looking for or attempt to make the cross yourself. Once you've got your clone, get yourself the highest quality living soil you can source. If you can't find it, make it yourself 

Terpenes are actually the result of the constant communications all the bacteria and fungi are making with one another. So, your terpene profile will essentially be a reflection of your soil.

"
*If you’re small, smells are a good way to stand out. A team of researchers led by the Netherlands Institute of Ecology (NIOO-KNAW) has demonstrated for the first time that two different types of micro-organisms – bacteria and fungi – use fragrances, known as terpenes, to hold conversations. And that’s not all. “We actually believe that terpenes are the most popular chemical medium on our planet to communicate through.”*
"

https://nioo.knaw.nl/en/press/worlds-most-spoken-language-isterpene’

Sounds wacky at first, but consider that these "communications" are essentially the roots signaling to the microbes in the soil what it wants, and when. 

As kingzt also pointed out, minerals play a part in not just terpene production but a balanced soil. I've heard people swear by sulfer and calcium to increase terpene production, but can only find articles about calcium helping.

https://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ijb.2005.196.200

My soil is amended with basalt, oyster shell flour, and GRD for my mineral profile and I've noticed a difference since then. Those 3 not only provide me with loads of minerals (including calcium and sulfer) but the OSF buffers the peat moss. Been running this soil for over a year and the smell and taste is unreal, for anything you grow in this. I started growing my own veggies once I realized this about terpenes. If this soil can produce incredible smelling and tasting meds, it should work with veggies too right? Yes and yes! You can practically grow anything if your soil is good enough. When you cut into a cucumber/tomato/etc grown in a well balanced living organic soil, the same soil we're using on our girls, it's hard to go back to store bought veggies just like it's hard to go back to a dispensary. 

tl;dr: Look into living organic soil and grow a clone that has the flavor profile you want in it.


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## ANC (Mar 13, 2018)

Each element on the periodic table can switch on a gene, each gene can produce an enzyme, protein or whatever. That is why I always say plants need ALL the nutrients.
Some people even use seawater in their gardens as it even contains gold.


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## dopeonarope (Mar 13, 2018)

ANC said:


> it even contains gold.


as does human poo (in trace amounts)


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## Cold$moke (Mar 13, 2018)

dopeonarope said:


> as does human poo (in trace amounts)


You must drink lots of goldshlager?


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## dopeonarope (Mar 13, 2018)

haha I've never tried goldschläger, I just nosh down on heaps of turds for the trace Au


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## giglewigle (Mar 13, 2018)

interesting thread my imagination is running wild now I'm in coco atm but would love 2 have a water only. sea water do thay some how filter out the salt wouldn't all the salt kill the plants or something maybe harm the micro herd?.eather 
wayawsome thread


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## ANC (Mar 13, 2018)




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## giglewigle (Mar 13, 2018)

i still a little confused as to how it works without killing the plant but very interesting im starting to think 2 things now microbes and minarels and the possabilitys are endless fasanating vid cheers anc


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## ANC (Mar 13, 2018)

Look at the second video


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## giglewigle (Mar 13, 2018)

ANC said:


>


Cool i think that stuff he was talking about was jut an ad here lol i might get some or some ocean water next time im at the beach


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## ANC (Mar 13, 2018)

There are a number of premade sea mineral or sea trace products yea.
Which is great for people who can't get to the sea.


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## giglewigle (Mar 13, 2018)

essentially tho its not tje sea water yes its the minarels in the water and well i guess im taking away from this that our soils are really depleted if tjese minrerels iv heard of people using vegimight in soil tjat has a very high salt content


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## ANC (Mar 13, 2018)

But you can take ordinary seawater and use it diluted 1:10 a couple of times a year.


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## giglewigle (Mar 13, 2018)

ANC said:


> But you can take ordinary seawater and use it diluted 1:10 a couple of times a year.


im gunna do this u rekon if i dilluted it to tje proper amount i could foiler feed it and if that would be more effective i heard som where to day that seaweed i think im actuelly confused on it now lol but would it be more effective u rekon im defenetly going to the beach


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## Cold$moke (Mar 13, 2018)

Smells like the beach!

Now try smoking it


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## BoiseShortz (Mar 13, 2018)

I think I got some genetics that could express really well, I will do some pheno hunting for sure:
Crockett Family Farms - Turbo Diesel ((GG#4 x Pure Kush) x Sour Diesel)
HSO - 707 Headband
Barneys - Violator Kush (Kush Landrace Hybrid)
BC Bud Depot - SoCal Master Kush 

I have seen lab results for most of these and they show above average a-bisabolol. I grow directly in the ground and have really clay soil at 8000' but still get 8ft tall plants. Veggies grown in the same beds seem to taste great. I am not as concerned with yield or THC, I really grow for flavor. I think to pursue the high Brix thing better I need to establish a baseline for my soil/dirt. Can anyone recommend a good lab for soil testing? Also how do I 'like' another post?


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## giglewigle (Mar 13, 2018)

bottem right corner it says reply and like to like u click like


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## ShLUbY (Mar 13, 2018)

kratos015 said:


> The key to growing for terpenes is a combination of incredible soil and good genetics. In your case, you'd either want to find a clone that provides the flavor profile you're looking for or attempt to make the cross yourself. Once you've got your clone, get yourself the highest quality living soil you can source. If you can't find it, make it yourself
> 
> Terpenes are actually the result of the constant communications all the bacteria and fungi are making with one another. So, your terpene profile will essentially be a reflection of your soil.
> 
> ...


haha funny how you did the opposite, but same exact thing as me. i was trying to be a better veggie gardener and learned about living soil and organics... and then i thought to myself, why am I not doing this with my cannabis?!?! So, i did!


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## Cold$moke (Mar 13, 2018)

I think hydrogardens in Colorado can do it for you.

I know they say for a fee they can tailor a feed chart if you send them what they ask for .

Sounds legit for a serious farmer but lil overkill for hobby growers


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 13, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> I think I got some genetics that could express really well, I will do some pheno hunting for sure:
> Crockett Family Farms - Turbo Diesel ((GG#4 x Pure Kush) x Sour Diesel)
> HSO - 707 Headband
> Barneys - Violator Kush (Kush Landrace Hybrid)
> ...


make more posts, and get more likes, the buttons show up when you participate enough


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## BoiseShortz (Mar 13, 2018)

giglewigle said:


> bottem right corner it says reply and like to like u click like


 bottom right corner just says reply


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 13, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> bottom right corner just says reply


just wait and keep posting, the like button will show up soon


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## BoiseShortz (Mar 13, 2018)

Thanks Roger, saw your post right after I posted


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## stoned-monkey (Mar 13, 2018)

I test my soil at MSU. its $25 dollars. you can drop off or go through the mail. I suspect that any agricultural university near you does this. or just google search mail in soil test. most if not all aren't going to give you cannabis specific recommendations. 

clay soil generally has good mineral content, but low organic matter and poor drainage. what I do is add compost/manure and straw/alfalfa before and after the grow season. then once your soil is better texture and balanced profile you can just add compost/manure/straw/alfalfa as needed, I use straw as mulch too.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 13, 2018)

there's usually a county agricultural agent, if you look up his office number, i'm sure he'll know the closest test centers. you don't have to mention that its for weed, unless you live in a legal place. tell him you're growing hops to make your own beer.


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## pollen205 (Jul 6, 2018)

I am 3 week to hatrvest...
Complete bio grow ...biotabs start kit

Will I benefit from adding fresh sea water and how much ?


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## doug mirabelli (Jul 6, 2018)

I use the product terpenez. Not sure how good it is because I haven’t done a control but I find that I’ve gotten a good gene expression from my super lemon haze last harvest on it


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## DonTesla (Jul 16, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> Hi everyone, I have been growing for 10+ years alway knew that there was a specific flavor to weed that I just loved. Now with lab testing, I am pretty positive that it is a combo of Myrcene and Bisabolol (Kushy). Maybe there is already a thread about this that someone can direct me to? But if not I was wondering what growing techniques (other then genetics) can be used to enhance this flavor profile.


If you want to amplify your terpenes, use a trigger.

Insect frass, for one, and another is... use magnesium sulfate foliar at the flip, which will double your terps and increase pungency, if timed right and if right strength, and increase your vitamin and mineral production as well.

Terps and anthocyanin (a special antioxidant) are my favourite tings about the plant by far..


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## Miyagismokes (Jul 17, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> anthocyanin


So... The thing about this, while beautiful, doesn't seem to have any function to someone smoking flowers. 
Amazing stuff, to be sure. But I have a hard time seeing what use it is in cannabis....


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## Joe_doe (Jul 17, 2018)

ANC said:


> But you can take ordinary seawater and use it diluted 1:10 a couple of times a year.


ive also heard of dumping seaweed into your wormery (accounting for ph) or letting it steep into compost tea or if you have the dried a crushed variety, it can be sprinkled into your soil. Even dried seagull guano will contain that sea goodness


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## Miyagismokes (Jul 17, 2018)

Joe_doe said:


> or letting it steep into compost tea


Kelp meal is a component of basically every tea I make.
I'd get it fresh, but west coast seaweed....
Cali coast seaweed....
I dunno. Seems like it'd be contaminated as fuck.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Jul 17, 2018)

Miyagismokes said:


> Kelp meal is a component of basically every tea I make.
> I'd get it fresh, but west coast seaweed....
> Cali coast seaweed....
> I dunno. Seems like it'd be contaminated as fuck.


i'm not sure any of it's as pure as it was ten years ago, i try to get something that says "cold water" on it, not that that's a guarantee of anything, just seems like the farther north they get it from, the less shit ought to be in it


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## DonTesla (Jul 18, 2018)

Miyagismokes said:


> So... The thing about this, while beautiful, doesn't seem to have any function to someone smoking flowers.
> Amazing stuff, to be sure. But I have a hard time seeing what use it is in cannabis....


You underestimating the power of it, is all... as did i..


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## Miyagismokes (Jul 18, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> You underestimating the power of it, is all... as did i..


I guess I could be, my viewpoint is somewhat narrow. Does it survive combustion? Does it vape? Does it come through in an extract?
I'm all about cannabis as one of the most useful plants on Earth, but I provide weed to be smoked. I can't do ALL the hemp things... At least not yet.
As it stands now, it's a visual effect that adds MAD bag appeal, but it's just gonna get burnt....


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## DonTesla (Jul 18, 2018)

@Miyagismokes
Hmm, perhaps you're assuming that most ppl just smoke their medicine but really, most ppl that need it for actual medicine use the plant in _several_ ways.. creams, balms, tinctures, pills, edibles, soaps, sprays, dog treats, vape, smoke, drinks, sauces, oils, syrups, concentrates, etc etc. 

Your avenue is great and a more than worthy one, you make the world a better place...however, it may exploit only 5-10% of that whole and overall related market or so. I am just aiming to stay thinking a bit bigger picture. I don't sell any of my flowers, they are either consumed by my friends and fam for free or donated to events...but I do hope a hearty marriage of benefits may stem from our ongoing research. We will know much much much more after I do my PhD, haha, but for now, I can say that:

Anthocyanins, the largest water-soluble pigments in the plant kingdom, are a type of flavonoid, a phytonutrient found exclusively in plants. Plants with these colorful pigments have long been valued in herbal medicine for their numerous health benefits. 

Additional research shows that anthocyanins inhibit nuclear factor-kB activation, thus reducing the pro-inflammatory mediators that are linked to the initiation of degenerative diseases. *

*Karlsen A1, Retterstøl L, et al. Anthocyanins inhibit nuclear factor-kappaB activation in monocytes and reduce plasma concentrations of pro-inflammatory mediators in healthy adults, J Nutr. 2007 Aug;137(:1951-4.

and YES
It survives many cooking processes, and concentrates well.. including making Rosin, one of my faves, which yes, can go *pure* red, purple or pink.. or even blue in high ph and metallic situations..

If your customers had this, I am sure they would thank you whether recreational or not!


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## DonTesla (Jul 18, 2018)




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## BoiseShortz (Jul 18, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> If you want to amplify your terpenes, use a trigger.
> 
> Insect frass, for one, and another is... use magnesium sulfate foliar at the flip, which will double your terps and increase pungency, if timed right and if right strength, and increase your vitamin and mineral production as well.
> 
> Terps and anthocyanin (a special antioxidant) are my favourite tings about the plant by far..


I use crab meal which I believe has chitin also been using biolive and oyster shells, would insect frass have something else i might be missing? My plants are switching right now all outdoor notill, if I were using epsom salt and water for my folair do you have a recommendation for strength ratio.

I grow purple sugar snaps and all sorts of purple, black and brown tomatoes i love the high anthocyanin expressions, never really thought about it in my weed. Thanks for putting it in my head!


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## DonTesla (Jul 19, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> I use crab meal which I believe has chitin also been using biolive and oyster shells, would insect frass have something else i might be missing? My plants are switching right now all outdoor notill, if I were using epsom salt and water for my folair do you have a recommendation for strength ratio.
> 
> I grow purple sugar snaps and all sorts of purple, black and brown tomatoes i love the high anthocyanin expressions, never really thought about it in my weed. Thanks for putting it in my head!


Glad to spark a new idea!

I would use only 1/8 tsp or so per gallon, and hit them twice in the first ten days of flower, not in the heat.
Less is more, you don't want to salt your plants out and dry em out, the opposite of what you want.

As for insect frass, I would say YES.. good frass has INCREDIBLE stats. Unreal, really.

I will try to find one of my posts on it for ya!

D


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## DonTesla (Jul 19, 2018)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-dons-organic-garden.815786/page-168

See page 168 in our thread, post #3348. (Link above)

Summary:

*Insect frass*:

has* 100 Billion fungi *spores per gram

*6 trillion* cfu/gm of *microorganisms* (including bacteria, protozoa and nematodes)

*stimulates *the plants auto-immune system so it *produces more:*

*terpenes, flavinoids, *alkaloids*, *amino acids, and chitinase enzyme,

not to mention root rot, mildew and nematode defence


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## DonTesla (Jul 19, 2018)

In short, it can improve flavor, increase terpenes (which are highly valuable, extremely fragrant, and very medicinal as well), and couple companies even go as far to boast that it can shave up to 2 weeks off of your life cycle.. faster veg and flower that is, if used early and often and in the right amounts. Hard to beat that value imo!


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## Miyagismokes (Jul 19, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> In short, it can improve flavor, increase terpenes (which are highly valuable, extremely fragrant, and very medicinal as well), and couple companies even go as far to boast that it can shave up to 2 weeks off of your life cycle.. faster veg and flower that is, if used early and often and in the right amounts. Hard to beat that value imo!


One of the things I always have issue with regarding science-y stuff... 
There's multiple types of chitin and chitinases. I note you mention chitin from insect frass is "immediately available", but is chitin ever really "immediately available"? 
Wouldn't fungus chitin via mushroom compost be *more* available? Since fungus chitin is a different type of chitin, will it trigger the same SAR pathways?

I grasp insect frass being the MORE available form, since it isn't encased in calcium carbonate like crustacean chitin, but should I draw from this that fungus chitin doesn't work on the same pathways?


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## DonTesla (Jul 20, 2018)

I would say draw from both if you can... you're a step ahead with each approach the way I see it, so best to be 2 steps ahead vs just one...

Takes only 2 to 3 hours max to go from a completely limp and near dead plant that you believe is 100% done for sure, to go to fully erect and upright-perky, as seen in the pic. With frass that is.. BSF frass to be specific.

Basic fungals, on the other hand, I see as the slower yet just as intelligent and if anything the more _proactive_ approach.. it takes, say, around a couple weeks to get a real good mycelium or AMF/myco population established, but with frass, you can do it in just 2 hours, vs 2 wks.. right?

So both is best imo. I usually grow a thick yet fine white beard on every organic soil, before testing it, at least twice before using it.. folding it in each time (thin mycelium strands that go thick and dense with sheer numbers and layers).. and then I do myco too, and then I do frass.. they all have their perks and pro's.

I like to attack problems like ant farms do, from many many angles.. its hedges your bets and increases your odds for success.. without overkill, I still like to KIS, but good to be thorough too.



Miyagismokes said:


> One of the things I always have issue with regarding science-y stuff...
> There's multiple types of chitin and chitinases. I note you mention chitin from insect frass is "immediately available", but is chitin ever really "immediately available"?
> Wouldn't fungus chitin via mushroom compost be *more* available? Since fungus chitin is a different type of chitin, will it trigger the same SAR pathways?
> 
> I grasp insect frass being the MORE available form, since it isn't encased in calcium carbonate like crustacean chitin, but should I draw from this that fungus chitin doesn't work on the same pathways?


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## ANC (Jul 20, 2018)

Get your brix levels up, a meter is pretty inexpensive...
Best (only) ways is through fermented feeds. Korean farming practice is a nice easy practice that can be done at home with simple materials like rice and milk .


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## DonTesla (Jul 20, 2018)

ANC said:


> Get your brix levels up, a meter is pretty inexpensive...
> Best (only) ways is through fermented feeds. Korean farming practice is a nice easy practice that can be done at home with simple materials like rice and milk .


Yeah, Hi brix is a good thing to incorporate into the approach. LABS is really easy stuff to make and should be a weapon at our disposal, among other ferments if you like them.. and basalt and gypsum. Good GRD too. The basalt and gypsum will also add density/weight, and terps/pungency as well, respectively.


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## Miyagismokes (Jul 20, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> usually grow a thick yet fine white beard on every organic soil, before testing it, at least twice before using it.


Do you ever have fungus eat your soil?
I left some cloth pots fallow last year and when I dug them out to move them, fungus had eaten the bottom three inches of dirt, basically bleached it out.


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## docter (Jul 20, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> Hi everyone, I have been growing for 10+ years alway knew that there was a specific flavor to weed that I just loved. Now with lab testing, I am pretty positive that it is a combo of Myrcene and Bisabolol (Kushy). Maybe there is already a thread about this that someone can direct me to? But if not I was wondering what growing techniques (other then genetics) can be used to enhance this flavor profile.


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## BoiseShortz (Jul 20, 2018)

I've seen this one but still great, Kevin Jodrey always drops some amazing knowledge, I've watched most of his stuff in youtube... What a wealth of information!


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## LinguaPeel (Jul 28, 2018)

Different root exudates attract different bacteria strains. Different strains of bacteria produces different flavors depending on what carbs and proteins are fed and what minerals are available to eat them off of. You get a different flavor from every mineral in your rock dust, and every different food source. The industry is letting growers down by not coming out with this information. Growers can't do the side by sides themselves,when they are forced to grow every plant in their bedroom the same. I mean, having 2 different soils in the same room? Knowing that genetics aren't important, because all weed is so damn genetically diverse?

All the good pot grown today is so diverse, its not really a strain. Too diverse, the plant evolves. You can tell growers apart more so than the strains. The old heads can grow an SD that doesn't smell organic or hydro or like bobs crop, etc. The old heads who knew what the strains wanted to provide. Back before weed was marketed to soccer moms who hate the smell of weed.

Terpenez, zomeone mentioned, is not a soil amendment itz a plant perfume. Smellz like a fake azz attempt at recreating Lemon pinezol weed. Guezz what it makez your bud zmell like? A fake azz attempt at recreating lemon pinezol weed.


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## BoiseShortz (Aug 1, 2018)

LinguaPeel said:


> Different root exudates attract different bacteria strains. Different strains of bacteria produces different flavors depending on what carbs and proteins are fed and what minerals are available to eat them off of. You get a different flavor from every mineral in your rock dust, and every different food source. The industry is letting growers down by not coming out with this information. Growers can't do the side by sides themselves,when they are forced to grow every plant in their bedroom the same. I mean, having 2 different soils in the same room? Knowing that genetics aren't important, because all weed is so damn genetically diverse?
> 
> All the good pot grown today is so diverse, its not really a strain. Too diverse, the plant evolves. You can tell growers apart more so than the strains. The old heads can grow an SD that doesn't smell organic or hydro or like bobs crop, etc. The old heads who knew what the strains wanted to provide. Back before weed was marketed to soccer moms who hate the smell of weed.
> 
> Terpenez, zomeone mentioned, is not a soil amendment itz a plant perfume. Smellz like a fake azz attempt at recreating Lemon pinezol weed. Guezz what it makez your bud zmell like? A fake azz attempt at recreating lemon pinezol weed.


 I've read some research that even points out that things that might have been previously considered "bad" i.e. drought conditions might actually stimulate the production of certain terpenes. So what one grower might consider wrong is actually ideal for another grower looking to achieve a different taste or aroma profile. I am a firm believer that growing in the ground and with the sun (the way nature did it for millennia) is the only way for the future of this amazing plant. I fully respect people who grow indoors out of necessity but hope legal and social views change so it is no longer necessary. Just my two cents...


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## SSR (Aug 2, 2018)

ANC said:


> There are a number of premade sea mineral or sea trace products yea.
> Which is great for people who can't get to the sea.


Folks wanting to use sea water for foliar are better with these products.
They have a lot of the sodium and chlorides removed. Together these make up ~80-85% of the available minerals.
Seawater foliars done once every two weeks in Veg and transition made a difference for me.
Sea water works great applied to soil in small amounts once or twice a year depending on what you're growing and how intensively.
My pop put me onto this in the 90s and so long as you don't overdo it it works great


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## growingforfun (Aug 3, 2018)

Whoa whoa whoa, let's back up to the ocean water for the gold comments. This sparked my interest and I'm wondering what impact gold has on the plant.

I am totally willing to get some gold leaf and blend the absolute SHIT out of it an add that to my nutrient feeds if theres any reason to think it will make a differance thars positive. I actually have plenty laying around already. Plant just hit week 6 so I'd toss it in except for it's a single plant grow an I'm not risking it for no evidence..


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

Gold is completely unreactive so i can't imagine it would be of actual benefit to the plants or microbes.
Youd need to do some pretty intense reading of plant studys to figure that one out mefinks


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## DonTesla (Aug 3, 2018)

Any one able to find the links mentioned at the 43:04 mark??


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## BoiseShortz (Aug 3, 2018)

Scoured the wonderland website couldn't find any terpene profile comparisons from the golden tarp, ganjier.com doesn't exist, not sure...


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

The site he mentions is ganjier.com ive no idea where on the site the data is though

https://www.theganjier.com/


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

https://www.theganjier.com/2016/05/12/the-dosing-project-and-the-golden-tarp-test-data-make-an-impression-at-the-emerald-conference/

Try that link?


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## BoiseShortz (Aug 3, 2018)

SSR said:


> https://www.theganjier.com/2016/05/12/the-dosing-project-and-the-golden-tarp-test-data-make-an-impression-at-the-emerald-conference/
> 
> Try that link?


Thanks a bunch been trying to find this site for a minute, knew it had to be there


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> Thanks a bunch been trying to find this site for a minute, knew it had to be there



Never a problem.
I mean what i say in my sig, im not the smartest but im persistent lol


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

I have a question of my own pertinent to this thread.
I was gonna wait for the next run but heyho lol

I've never intentionally gone for terps, its always been things like giberellic acid through veg to up the THC which i assume negatively impacts terps.
Can anyone clarify that for me please


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## BoiseShortz (Aug 3, 2018)

That pdf is a really interesting read, it seems that bisabolol and myrcene are inversely correlated, which is why it is so hard to find strains high in both, this is exactly the info I was looking for when I started this thread can't express my appreciation!


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## BoiseShortz (Aug 3, 2018)

SSR said:


> I have a question of my own pertinent to this thread.
> I was gonna wait for the next run but heyho lol
> 
> I've never intentionally gone for terps, its always been things like giberellic acid through veg to up the THC which i assume negatively impacts terps.
> Can anyone clarify that for me please


https://www.rollitup.org/t/gibberellic-acid-growth-hormone-effects-on-marijuana.829286/ some good stuff in here, but also some peanut gallery stuff


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> Any one able to find the links mentioned at the 43:04 mark??


Thanks go to this man, all i did was answer his question


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/t/gibberellic-acid-growth-hormone-effects-on-marijuana.829286/ some good stuff in here, but also some peanut gallery stuff


Thanks, I'll have a read.
I discovered a lot about it on my own but always want to learn more.
Wish id signed up here years ago lol


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## BoiseShortz (Aug 3, 2018)

Same, a pretty great community of "mostly" smart people.


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

That thread you linked, it doesnt really contain what i know about GA³.
Should i post a reply to it so people can find the info in the future.

I dunno what to do but those guys had all the wrong reasons to use it and sounds like their doses were miles off lol


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## DonTesla (Aug 3, 2018)

SSR said:


> I have a question of my own pertinent to this thread.
> I was gonna wait for the next run but heyho lol
> 
> I've never intentionally gone for terps, its always been things like giberellic acid through veg to up the THC which i assume negatively impacts terps.
> Can anyone clarify that for me please


Thanks for your persistence @SSR, much appreciated!!

Cant speak to Gi. acid but if you are growing for terpenes, which is a truly worthy cause, I am happy to share some tricks.


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## BoiseShortz (Aug 3, 2018)

SSR said:


> That thread you linked, it doesnt really contain what i know about GA³.
> Should i post a reply to it so people can find the info in the future.
> 
> I dunno what to do but those guys had all the wrong reasons to use it and sounds like their doses were miles off lol


http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/35836.pdf this was really all i was talking about in there, maybe you already know but it was knew to me


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> Thanks for your persistence @SSR, much appreciated!!
> 
> Cant speak to Gi. acid but if you are growing for terpenes, which is a truly worthy cause, I am happy to share some tricks.


I want to have a try at growing for terpenes in the future. You know how it is, you get focused on yield and potency lol.

I want to share the things i know as chances show themselves, shared knowledge empowers people in ways other things can't come close to.

Thank you kindly for the offer and when the next rounds coming close I'm sure you'll get fed up with me and my questions 
Edited to add: you guys are more than welcome, its not me that deserves the thanks. You guys had obviously been doing research i just found you a couple of links


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## DonTesla (Aug 3, 2018)

I left you a PM in case you want to get a head start! @SSR


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## SSR (Aug 3, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/35836.pdf this was really all i was talking about in there, maybe you already know but it was knew to me


I've just read the PDF, thanks i missed that in the thread. It looks like it may affect the terps negatively which is a bummer but im going to say the PDF is wrong when it states that THC content was lowered. Now i can't accurately measure THC content like them but i know when my girls are more potent as do others lol.

The pdf sums up what I know quite well and in a way more sciency way than i could lol and has also taught me a bit about the genetics of it.

If GA is used for halfway through veg then it has positive effects like slightly higher growth rates (although they need time to recover from this before transition or they'll be some weak ass plants) and increased levels of THC and CBD.

The PDF misses out parts like GA can stop your plants from transitioning to flower and that plants build up a tolerance to it.
Im going to have a quick look to see if there are any journals or white papers that support what I've seen in real life, if i do ill edit this post with a link.

Re: dosage. The paper talks of 50 micromol and 100micromol dosages. The 100 coincides with what i found to have positive impacts. I may have missed it skimming that PDF but at dosages lower than the 100micromoles or too much higher than 100micromoles the GA has negative impacts.
100 micromoles is equal to 3.45g per 100 litres. I used 3.5g per 100 litres



DonTesla said:


> I left you a PM in case you want to get a head start! @SSR


Thank you sir. I'm sure you'll regret it in the future lol

Edited to add a link to support what I've said:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11738-010-0636-1


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## PhenoMenal (Aug 6, 2018)

btw, sorry to veer off-center, but check out this "Flavor chemicals of mango"(fruit) from wikipedia ...
Keen observers will note the many similarities  (this is obv nothing new to science tho but important)





ps. is it just me or are Furanones skydivers


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## PhenoMenal (Aug 7, 2018)

btw, the cannabinoid profile (and terpene etc profile) is established in the genetics of the seed.

I've grown CBD strains and used Thin Layer Chromatography (TLC - which we can do at home [rollitup link]) at only 3 weeks old to detect which seedlings are CBD-only/CBD+THC/THC-only etc. [rollitup link]

In other words you can use TLC to detect these terpenes and flavanoids etc, and do so with 3-week-old seedlings, saving months because you don't need to flower them through to harvest to find a good chemical profile.

Though, obviously youd need to use a different dye to the one we use for cannabinoids (Fast Blue B/BB), but I haven't looked into that.
It would also be slightly trickier to visualise because (individual) terpenes rarely reach above 5%, but, TLC is extremely sensitive 

An area worth investigating.

ps. Fast Blue B/BB is also used to test for phenolics in other fruit such as strawberries.[sciencedirect link]


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## DonTesla (Aug 7, 2018)

@SSR post #75 for that mango post, brotha, lol.


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## SSR (Aug 7, 2018)

Thanks @DonTesla I'm not going insane then lol


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## DonTesla (Aug 7, 2018)

SSR said:


> Thanks @DonTesla I'm not going insane then lol


lol not at all. Just forgot to make note is all. Happens all the time lol


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## BoiseShortz (Aug 9, 2018)

@DonTesla been using that insect frass as folair, seems to be working wonders. I was going to start doing some OMRI listed micro nutes (mostly for the boron and manganese), as folair too, do you think it would be dumb to mix \ do it the same evening? Or should I do them as separate feedings?


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## BoiseShortz (Aug 9, 2018)

Herb & Suds said:


> Stop posting LOL


Sorry kept getting an error message, but they must have all gone through


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## pollen205 (Nov 4, 2018)

Can some expert please help me to find terpens rich strain in eu seed banks...
Now growing afghan kush special and the smell is just wood...
I realy dont know to tell difreence betwen the strain because I buy on street and dont know what I buying.. 
But I love smell dominant weed
La confendencial from dna genetic???


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Nov 4, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> You must drink lots of goldshlager?


Almost spit my coffee out on my monitor I LOL'd so hard!


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## detgreenthumb (Nov 5, 2018)

BoiseShortz said:


> Hi everyone, I have been growing for 10+ years alway knew that there was a specific flavor to weed that I just loved. Now with lab testing, I am pretty positive that it is a combo of Myrcene and Bisabolol (Kushy). Maybe there is already a thread about this that someone can direct me to? But if not I was wondering what growing techniques (other then genetics) can be used to enhance this flavor profile.


Potassium, magnesium and sulfur are going to be your main catalysts to essential oil (THC/CBD/Terpene) production. I focus on P/K loading duringbthe back end of veg/first couple weeks of flower. Doing so will help with tighter node spacing, better lateral growth and better shoot production in the rhizosphere. Once your plant is done stretching you want to utilize less phosphorus and focus on the potassium, magnesium and sulfur. You also want to maximize UV output from your lights. CMH/QMH bulbs produce a good amount of UV-A and UV-B spectrum. Same spectrum that burns our skin causes the plant to produce more trichomes as a defense mechanism. If you really want to go the extra mile get yourself some bulbs that produce UV-C spectrum. It's by far the strongest of the UV spectrum, which in turn is something that can do the most damage to your skin (think cancer.) If you choose to go the UVC route, make sure those bulbs are only running for 15 minutes every hour and they're always off when anyone is in the room working


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## Observe & Report (Nov 5, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> use magnesium sulfate foliar at the flip, which will double your terps and increase pungency, if timed right and if right strength, and increase your vitamin and mineral production as well.


I'm calling B.S. on this @DonTesla, what evidence can you point to that foliar feeding magnesium sulfate will double the terpines produced by Cannabis?


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## mr. childs (Nov 5, 2018)

Observe & Report said:


> I'm calling B.S. on this @DonTesla, what evidence can you point to that foliar feeding magnesium sulfate will double the terpines produced by Cannabis?


i dont know about doubling... but it does seem to work. this is the one i used this year.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 5, 2018)

mr. childs said:


> i dont know about doubling... but it does seem to work. this is the one i used this year.View attachment 4227619


juniper and grapefruit.....really? Gin and Juice?


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## mr. childs (Nov 5, 2018)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> juniper and grapefruit.....really? Gin and Juice?


rollin' down the street smokin' indo sippin' on...

mixed with mega crop in a 50/50 ratio, or mixed with jacks citrus in a 50/50 ratio...


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 5, 2018)

mr. childs said:


> rollin' down the street smokin' indo sippin' on...
> 
> mixed with mega crop in a 50/50 ratio, or mixed with jacks citrus in a 50/50 ratio...


that seems like a lot, you use it every feed?


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## pollen205 (Nov 5, 2018)

Does any body know what terpenes afghan kush have??


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## mr. childs (Nov 5, 2018)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> that seems like a lot, you use it every feed?


foliar outside by itself, tablespoon to a gallon. outside i use it more to hit the mites, moths, catepillars, slugs & snails. foliar indoors, teaspoon to a gallon mixed with a little jaz rose spray or tricontanol with this mister occasionally.


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## Blue back (Nov 5, 2018)

This may have been brought up but does anyone use Terpinator? If so or not what are your thoughts of it?


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## doniawon (Nov 5, 2018)

detgreenthumb said:


> Potassium, magnesium and sulfur are going to be your main catalysts to essential oil (THC/CBD/Terpene) production. I focus on P/K loading duringbthe back end of veg/first couple weeks of flower. Doing so will help with tighter node spacing, better lateral growth and better shoot production in the rhizosphere. Once your plant is done stretching you want to utilize less phosphorus and focus on the potassium, magnesium and sulfur. You also want to maximize UV output from your lights. CMH/QMH bulbs produce a good amount of UV-A and UV-B spectrum. Same spectrum that burns our skin causes the plant to produce more trichomes as a defense mechanism. If you really want to go the extra mile get yourself some bulbs that produce UV-C spectrum. It's by far the strongest of the UV spectrum, which in turn is something that can do the most damage to your skin (think cancer.) If you choose to go the UVC route, make sure those bulbs are only running for 15 minutes every hour and they're always off when anyone is in the room working


@Heisenbeans , now you've heard the sunscreen theory twice!.

Side note: plasma, hortilux super blue mh, are also good for supp. Uv..


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 6, 2018)

mr. childs said:


> foliar outside by itself, tablespoon to a gallon. outside i use it more to hit the mites, moths, catepillars, slugs & snails. foliar indoors, teaspoon to a gallon mixed with a little jaz rose spray or tricontanol with this mister occasionally.View attachment 4227826


what strength tria do you use? i've experimented with it, like the results, ought to use up the rest of what i have stored, i guess


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## doniawon (Nov 6, 2018)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> what strength tria do you use? i've experimented with it, like the results, ought to use up the rest of what i have stored, i guess


Snowstorm from humbolts own is basically tria n a bottle, always seemed to help the frost.

Is there a way to make it at home?. 

Interested in using tria again, been stuck on sulphur for frost lately, would like to combine them.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 6, 2018)

doniawon said:


> Snowstorm from humbolts own is basically tria n a bottle, always seemed to help the frost.
> 
> Is there a way to make it at home?.
> 
> Interested in using tria again, been stuck on sulphur for frost lately, would like to combine them.


the easiest way is to use alfalfa meal, it contains a pretty good amount of tria naturally.
you can buy it in powdered form and make it up at need, have to dissolve it in polysorbate 20, then add that to water, tria won't dissolve in water by itself.

i don't actually use it during flower, it's a veg booster to me, seems to make plants at least ten% bushier, grow up to 20% faster, can cut a week or two off of veg time, and have bigger, bushier plants when you flip them. you're supposed to be able to use it in flower, and it will make buds larger, but i've never been able to figure out the timing properly, haven't gotten any mind blowing results from using it during flower


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## pollen205 (Nov 6, 2018)

Will gypsum make my soil better for terpenes production ?


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## Observe & Report (Nov 6, 2018)

It's all stoner mythology, like rusty nails, pre-chop darkness, boiling roots, and flushing.

Maybe driving a rusty nail through the stem or increasing sulfate increases terpenes, nobody has done the work to find out if it is true.


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## pollen205 (Nov 6, 2018)

Gypsum cant make soil bad anyhow or ?

And what you mean boiling roots...how can I booiled my roots...
Booiled water then water the plant ?
I heard ice cold water at the end??


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## Observe & Report (Nov 6, 2018)

People imagine all kinds of things can improve their crop. If you don't control for expectation bias or other variables then almost anything you do will seem to you to improve your crop. That's why people swear by flushing, prechop darkness, boiling roots, icing roots, organic, biodynamic, chiropractic, accupuncture, homeopathy, prayer etc...


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## raggyb (Nov 6, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> Gypsum cant make soil bad anyhow or ?
> 
> And what you mean boiling roots...how can I booiled my roots...
> Booiled water then water the plant ?
> I heard ice cold water at the end??


gypsum be calcium boo


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## pollen205 (Nov 7, 2018)

raggyb said:


> gypsum be calcium boo


What do you mran boo I dont understand


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Nov 7, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> What do you mran boo I dont understand


"boo" is a term of affection, like saying bro or buddy, although it is generally applied to your significant other, and not just a friend


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## pollen205 (Nov 7, 2018)

Glad to hear that


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## raggyb (Nov 8, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> Glad to hear that


plus you said booiled twice. I'm a little drunk


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## pollen205 (Nov 9, 2018)

raggyb said:


> plus you said booiled twice. I'm a little drunk


?


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## GreenLifeOmaha (Nov 18, 2018)

Cannabis has been crossed and spread so much that u must unlock each plants individual characteristics. No 2 seeds are the same, even clones can show different pheno expressions based on environment and organic inputs.

From our research...the more organic inputs u can add the better. We use teas and fermented plant juice for our inputs.

We use barley, yuca, alfalfa, greek yogurt, yeast, kelp, fish, benes, humic, molasses and any fruit pulp. This time of year the fruit pulp is pumpkin lol. We blend then add to a bucket with a bottle of multivitamins and dolomite lime. 2 cups to each 5g tea brew. 

Not saying do what we do, but add as many organic inputs as possible.


DO NOT PLAY AROUND WITH UV-C. Grab some lizard bulbs.


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## SSR (Jan 1, 2019)

detgreenthumb said:


> If you really want to go the extra mile get yourself some bulbs that produce UV-C spectrum. It's by far the strongest of the UV spectrum, which in turn is something that can do the most damage to your skin (think cancer.)


This has to be the single stupidist thing I've seen posted anywhere. 
For anyone reading that please note that UVc is used for sterilisation purposes because it kills living organisms outright. 

For the love of God don't put UVc in your grow room


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## Budzbuddha (Jan 1, 2019)

So a bottle of Flintstone Gummie vitamins is organic ? Seriously 

“ In ... Too .... Westing ! “ ... 

Used to pour a bottle of beer into a “ cooking “ bin of composting soil. Heard the yeast help get things moving . Did same thing into no till recipes , then cook in plastic tubs after awhile the rhizomorph stringers would show a bit. 

I will pass on adding the centrum silver .


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## ounevinsmoke (Jan 1, 2019)

SSR said:


> This has to be the single stupidist thing I've seen posted anywhere.
> For anyone reading that please note that UVc is used for sterilisation purposes because it kills living organisms outright.
> 
> For the love of God don't put UVc in your grow room


 Ozone generators also kills organic matter but people use them for Odor suppression. I've personally read a few articles explaining how some cannabis plants react to UV. Certain plants respond by creating more trichomes while others may degrade. There is no clear cut way to grow cannabis.


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## SSR (Jan 2, 2019)

ounevinsmoke said:


> Ozone generators also kills organic matter but people use them for Odor suppression. I've personally read a few articles explaining how some cannabis plants react to UV. Certain plants respond by creating more trichomes while others may degrade. There is no clear cut way to grow cannabis.


I'm fine with UV, I use it myself. UVa and UVb (to some extent) can show positive reactions but no UVc reaches plants on our planet naturally.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_germicidal_irradiation 

I know, it's Wikipedia here's another and there's plenty more if you search

http://www.cisuvc.com/ask-an-expert/what-is-uvc

Another point on UVc: I tried using it to sterilise my res's. The idea being I could avoid change outs by constantly sterilising, adding more RO and nutes as required. We'll it didn't take too long for a sediment to start forming in the res and the plants to start showing Fe deficiencies so if you're gonna do what I did you'll constantly need to supplement Fe. 

As for ozone I've used it before activated carbon filters were easily available. Pumping that shit into growrooms is also a great way to kill or mess plants up, I used it on the ducting removing air from the property only after finding that out. 
How did I find out ozone kills plants? 
Unfortunately it was the hard way.


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