# Is prohibition really about hemp?



## ford442 (Oct 23, 2011)

I have been considering lately that the government has a lot more stake in keeping hemp illegal that anything to do with marijuana. The federal government has ties to big oil and America's #1 taxed import is textiles. Anything that can be done with fossil fuels can be done more cleanly and cheaply with hemp and without hurting the environment. As long as pot is illegal they have an excuse to keep hemp from being grown. As a result of the ongoing raids in California, governor Brown has vetoed the hemp bill which would have started large scale production of hemp in the Sacramento valley for the first time since World War 2. The reason is that farmers would have faced federal prosecution for growing it. Why is an incredibly useful plant still federally illegal after decades and decades of research?


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 23, 2011)

yes it is . . . . .


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## SisterMaryElephant (Oct 25, 2011)

No, it wasn't about hemp. The prohibition of marijuana was based on racist policies of big government democrats in the 30's. Anti-Mexican and anti-black politicians targeted marijuana because migrant workers from Mexico and Jazz (mostly black) musicians smoked it. Anlsinger even lied to congress, testifiying that he tried marijuana and after a couple of hits he turned into a bat and flew around the room. 

Later, in 1970, a democrat controlled congress passed the Controlled Substances Act which made Marijuana a schedule 1 drug because hippies were smoking it and listening to rock and roll.


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## ford442 (Oct 25, 2011)

that was the face of it yes, but behind Anslinger was William Randolph Hearst who had a controlling interest in the timber industry for his multiple publications. he knew that hemp was poised to provide a cheap alternative to conventional tree paper and was already willing to print lies in his newspapers about anything that crossed his path. he also hated mexicans because he had been looted by them personally, but more than wanting to punish them, he wanted his vast fortune to stay intact. before that hemp was not suitable to make into paper, but all of this happened as soon as the decorticator machine was invented to process hemp on an industrial scale. did you know that near the same time Henry Ford built his first cars out of hemp? and that he also intended to run them on hemp methanol until the oil and steel companies stepped in?

they couldn't very well say "we want to make cannabis illegal because it interferes with our corporate interest" but they could lie and say that mexicans were going berserk on it. why lie if there is nothing to cover up?

since back then they knew that hemp could upset their apple cart big time. in the 60's and 70's they thought that hemp was just about gone for good, but indeed it was still there in the hands of a few thinking people. their old enemy right there under the noses of environment conscious individuals. so they created a 'war on drugs' scenario which pushed harmless old pot back to the top of the world's enemy number one list along with its cousin hemp. forever vilified once more the oil companies then raised their prices. here is a quote "In the 1920s, the early oil barons such as Rockefeller of Standard Oil, Rothschild of Shell, etc., became paranoically aware of the possibilities of Henry Ford&#8217;s vision of cheap methanol fuel, * and they kept oil prices incredibly low &#8211; between $1 and $4 per barrel (there are 42 gallons in an oil barrel) until 1970 &#8211; almost 50 years! Then, once they were finally sure of the lack of competition, the price of oil jumped to almost $60+ per barrel over the next 30 years."


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## SisterMaryElephant (Oct 25, 2011)

Hemp was never going to replace timber for paper, the amount of land required to replace the pulp from just one tree would make it impracticle and logistically impossible. It would mean replacing the land required to grow food with hemp for paper. BIO-Diesel made from peanut oil was going to be bigger than hemp-methanol and it was only about a decade after the MTA when synthetic rope made hemp rope obsolete. Don't get me wrong, there is still a use for hemp but it's not the panacea that some people claim. Should hemp, which contains virtually no THC be illegal? Of course not.

Regardless, the anti-corporation conspiracy theories just don't hold water. I've heard similar stories where it was "big-pharma" that did it to protect their new medicines but that fact is, it was just simple racism and ignorance that fueled it.

Today Marijuana use is still attached to the "hippy" stereotype which is slowly being replaced with the "stoner/pothead" stereotype image on the negative side and to some extent the "patient" image on the positive side. Unfortuantely, even the "patient" image is being eroded, slowly, by those that abuse the "medical" exemptions in many states. Everyone knows that getting a rec in California, for example, is a joke. Got a hangnail? Get a rec, headache? Get a rec. Pretend you hurt your leg, neck or back? get a rec, no real proof needed in most cases. 

I just hope that we can get the Federal government to give control back to the States before those without true medical needs ruin it for those with real needs. Once the States have control, some will decriminalize, for adults, like booze. The biggest hurdle, right now, is the Federal government and some in our own community that turn-off those that we need to change their minds.

YMMV...


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## wyteboi (Oct 25, 2011)

SisterMaryElephant said:


> Hemp was never going to replace timber for paper, the amount of land required to replace the pulp from just one tree would make it impracticle and logistically impossible. It would mean replacing the land required to grow food with hemp for paper.


but how long does it take to grow that one tree ? how many hemp plants could be grown in that amount of time ?

just a question ..... this aint really my subject...






soil


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 25, 2011)

hemp grows extremely fast and in very tight groups, if your really interested look up manitobe hemp fields in canada 
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/crops/hemp/bko05s03.html

[video=youtube;wspw-SdyGDE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wspw-SdyGDE[/video]


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## ford442 (Oct 25, 2011)

http://www.thc-ministry.net/untoldstory/pmpage1.html - An article from Popular Mechanics Magazine 1938

From Altahemp.com - "Ben Franklin owned a mill that made hemp paper. Thomas Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper. Until 1883, more than 75% of the world's paper was made with hemp fiber. In 1937 Popular Science magazine called hemp "The New Billion Dollar Crop." Then the big money people struck out to protect their interests. Newspaper publisher William Randolph Hearst led the crusade to ban hemp. Hearst owned millions of acres of prime timber land and a machine that simplified the process of making paper from hemp had just been invented. Hearst used his power as a publisher to create public panic about the evils of hemp and marijuana. Another big money player Pierre DuPont held patent rights to the sulfuric acid wood pulp paper process. In 1937 DuPont patented nylon rope made from synthetic petrochemicals. The big money people prevailed and near the end of 1937 Congress passed the Marijuana Tax Act. By placing a prohibitively high tax on hemp production it destroyed the industry. This was done to protect these big money interests of the timber, petrochemical, and cotton industries. Hemp was briefly re-legalized during W.W.II. The U.S. government produced the movie Hemp for Victory to encourage farmers to grow hemp. Even 4H clubs were asked to grow hemp to help their country in wartime. The parachute that saved George Bush's life in World War II was made of hemp fiber."


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## HobbyGrower72 (Nov 3, 2011)

SisterMaryElephant said:


> Today Marijuana use is still attached to the "hippy" stereotype which is slowly being replaced with the "stoner/pothead" stereotype image on the negative side and to some extent the "patient" image on the positive side. Unfortuantely, even the "patient" image is being eroded, slowly, by those that abuse the "medical" exemptions in many states. Everyone knows that getting a rec in California, for example, is a joke. Got a hangnail? Get a rec, headache? Get a rec. Pretend you hurt your leg, neck or back? get a rec, no real proof needed in most cases.


I used to think that medicinal use was the wrong approach. But then I realized, soon after alcohol's prohibition, its medical use was sanctioned. Doctors prescribed alcohol for all sorts of things just as marijuana is today. We all know what happened to the 18th amendment. 

So, if they wanna play this way, so be it. Let them have prescriptions for hang nails. I hope soon it will be legal for medicinal and recreational use. I imagine a world where purple haze cigarettes are sold next to marlboro, in fact marlboro green (not menthol) is a possibility.


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## wyteboi (Nov 5, 2011)

HobbyGrower72 said:


> a world where purple haze cigarettes are sold next to marlboro, in fact marlboro green (not menthol) is a possibility.


i already seen the "green pack" of marlboro in the early 90's. i remember mom sayin hey boy look at this , an there it was on the news...... marlboro was already producing the green pack for weed ....... i dont remember what when or why but they did...................... then a few days later i went to jail for a roach!








soil


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## Cannabisworks (Nov 5, 2011)

all of this is outlawed cause nobody can own a plant or strain. no pharma co or other can lay a patent on it so no money in it. money makes the work go round.


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## Cannabisworks (Nov 5, 2011)

i dont weant it legal either...just get rid of prhabition...why does someone or anyone feel they need to own this or regulate a natural plant. lots of other plant meds but nobodies after those ones to make illegal.
if they legalized it then they tax the hell out of it and we continue the underground growing to beat the tax man so it wont change a dam thing. look at smokes...way over taxed, especialy here in canada. look at dispensing fees on a pill. what do you think they will do to a fee for something that cost alot more than a pill and cost 40 bux to put in a small bottle. whos going to afford this..sure isnt me on dissability so ill continue to buy underground cheeper or grow my own.
they say the tax will fix everyones economy?...relay. but were broke now. so who is going to be the ones buying it if its legalized. with no jobs or money as it is...so nobody buyin means there is no tx revenue. but there will be more need for police to regulate the new laws and cost us once again more taxes. this legalizing hasnt been well thought out in my eyes


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## oldschooltofu (Nov 5, 2011)

because dupont gave money to the gov in forms of lobbying.

lobbying and campaign contributions from corps. needs to be illegal. thats what Occupy wall street needs to focus on. 
separation of corporations and State!!!


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## Balzac89 (Nov 5, 2011)

IT was originally about hemp, now its about funding for DEA and other law enforcement. With violent crime on the fall along with other crimes, the police only have drugs to focus on now with their huge amounts of cash to fight terrorism and drugs


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## Cannabisworks (Nov 5, 2011)

sorry guys...lol..


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## Shadeslay (Nov 5, 2011)

I would concur Hearst and DuPont likely had some influence in it's illegalization and I think Fords Hemp Car sealed the deal. 

One of my entries has some hemp related material. If I get off my butt I eventually want to add more instructions on how to make hemp products. 
https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog12821-marijuana-plant-hemp.html


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## ford442 (Nov 5, 2011)

interesting responses!

i am convinced now that the original prohibition of cannabis was mainly due to hemp - the articles i read point to the public at large being unaware of the issue before and after the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937. Only the AMA was aware that they were targeting a drug that doctors regularly prescribed, calling them on the fact that they had drafted the document in secret without any scientific input and using false claims of "addiction, violence, and overdosage" - later we find that the basis of the prohibition "included incorrect, excessive or unfounded arguments."

So, legalization in this case seems like a proper financial move entirely. I think that the basic fundamentals of business regulation in the United States is avoiding monopolies and allowing one business to profit on that monopolized commodity. Cannabis should have it's place in the world market.


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Jan 10, 2012)

Opium is a plant too


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## wyteboi (Jan 11, 2012)

WeedKillsBrainCells said:


> Opium is a plant too


yes it is , but there is no comparison. i dont care where the shit came from , have you ever seen how them folks live ? its worse then reefer madness , only for real. 





soil


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## wyteboi (Jan 11, 2012)

Cannabisworks said:


> they say the tax will fix everyones economy?...relay. but were broke now. so who is going to be the ones buying it if its legalized. with no jobs or money as it is...so nobody buyin means there is no tx revenue. but there will be more need for police to regulate the new laws and cost us once again more taxes. this legalizing hasnt been well thought out in my eyes


that, by no means will fix the economy ! it will just make one or two corps rich. more bonuses for the 1%

every older person an anybody that dont wanna deal with the local "drug dealer" will buy from pharma. there is no recession in "drugs". that dont happen. .... PLENTY of tax revenue.

i sure dont see how it would be possible to "add police because of new laws". i think there gonna need less police , a LOT less , so that means even more bonuses for the government. 

i think everybody but the mafia's and the CIA will benefit from it being legal. 

Government - plenty of extra money to burn and will earn them some extra votes.
Average smoker- NO MORE JAIL ! option of choosing species. price drops slightly.
Average pot dealer- the government cant compete with the mafia and the growers price, so income drops slightly and a lot less KIDS selling.


Cons ..... possible big outbreak in real drugs.





soil


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## desert dude (Jan 13, 2012)

"Anything that can be done with fossil fuels can be done more cleanly and cheaply with hemp and without hurting the environment."

I am a full-on supporter of ending the war on drugs, but this statement is absurd. Hemp oil is not going to replace petroleum. It is not cheaper.


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## desert dude (Jan 13, 2012)

SisterMary, you are not gonna fit in around here using logic and reason.


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## ford442 (Jan 13, 2012)

Hemp is not cheaper because it is currently not grown!
How many wars can be attributed to an easily grown crop that everyone has? how many lives? and how many lives will end yet over precious limited resources? 
Hempoline will not start endless bloody conflicts.


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## sonofdust (Sep 2, 2012)

The parachute that saved George Bush's life in World War II was made of hemp fiber."[/QUOTE]


I just knew there had to be a down side to hemp


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## sm00thslp (Sep 6, 2012)

There was a study somewhere that showed even with a weak economy, dispensaries were still maintaining the same amount of business, if not more (because more people were finding out about it; getting cards). Almost the same with cigarettes. People will buy it over almost anything else.

But I do believe it was made illegal due to hemp. I've always thought it started way back when Booth shot Lincoln. Could swear I read that somewhere reputable, but I don't know, so I don't necessarily believe that theory.


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## ford442 (Sep 6, 2012)

[video=youtube;ryO2JLzFPTY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryO2JLzFPTY[/video]


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## ford442 (Sep 6, 2012)

http://www.hemp-technologies.com/page33/page33.html

a nice page of facts here - and check out the hemp car of today!!


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## OGEvilgenius (Sep 8, 2012)

Far too powerful a plant. It's a threat to many industries. Large ones. Alcohol (somewhat), Pharmaceuticals, Oil, Various fibre related industries... it's a long list.


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## OGEvilgenius (Sep 8, 2012)

Balzac89 said:


> IT was originally about hemp, now its about funding for DEA and other law enforcement. With violent crime on the fall along with other crimes, the police only have drugs to focus on now with their huge amounts of cash to fight terrorism and drugs


Definitely helps justify gigantic police budgets and private prisons (aka Slave labour) as well.


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## ford442 (Sep 8, 2012)

OGEvilgenius said:


> Far too powerful a plant. It's a threat to many industries. Large ones. Alcohol (somewhat), Pharmaceuticals, Oil, Various fibre related industries... it's a long list.


right - the top ones are pharmaceuticals, alcohol, prison guards/law enforcement..


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## OGEvilgenius (Sep 11, 2012)

Also a threat to CIA black operations funding and bribes to politicians. Harder to bribe people with legit money.


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## ford442 (Sep 11, 2012)

true - we have always used illegal narcotics to bribe entities - that is why Thailand fought for us..

but, people are getting wise to this whole thing.. i just ordered some CBD derived from hemp legally.. Colorado may have legal cannabis in four months!


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## Amateur.Grower (Oct 11, 2012)

Well this won't be a complete list, but it's a start.

1. Big Pharma - Would literally lose billions overnight. Cannabis is primed to replace countless drugs. 
2. Criminal Justice System - The multi-billion dollar prison system that is becoming increasingly privatized. Police, lawyers etc. 
3. Hemp - The products that can be created with hemp are way too vast to name them all.
4. Alcohol/Tobacco - Cannabis would be a direct competitor with these two industries.
5. Ignorance - People like having something they can blame their trouble on, or their kid/friends etc. My kid would have been a doctor, but instead he smoked marijuana now he's useless. If anything, marijuana keeping people from going to college is a reality, one created by stupid laws that deny federal aid to people with drug convictions.


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## ford442 (Oct 11, 2012)

right - and those are the entities that lobby to keep cannabis illegal - prison wardens, big pharma, and alcohol are the top 3 i believe..


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## Golden Buddha (Oct 11, 2012)

Amateur.Grower said:


> Well this won't be a complete list, but it's a start.
> 
> 1. Big Pharma - Would literally lose billions overnight. Cannabis is primed to replace countless drugs.
> 2. Criminal Justice System - The multi-billion dollar prison system that is becoming increasingly privatized. Police, lawyers etc.
> ...


6. Religious Temperance Movement - There are those who believe it is their solemn duty to God to remake the world according to their vision. Carrie Nation is still running around with her Bible and hatchet. Although I suppose you could also file that one under ignorance.

 Golden Buddha


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## echlectica (Nov 4, 2012)

I am elated to be free of the notion that hemp will save anything at all. If you could replace coal and oil with Hemp some other country would have done that already. Hemp is great for fiber and has some biproducts but seriously its not the answer to every ill. Pot is illegal because that is how the government makes money from it. They can't tax it since you can grow you own in a closet, if you so wish, so they make money by giving cops something to do and through forfieture.


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## ford442 (Nov 4, 2012)

that is how cops get money, yes.
however, pot was made illegal because Randalph Hearst, DuPont, Andrew Mellon and Henry Anslinger worked together to secure their vast petrochemical/timber empires from being replaced by hemp.
it is not used for fuel yet because we killed the world hemp industry - we made every country sign a UN pact not to grow hemp.


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## echlectica (Nov 4, 2012)

ford442 said:


> that is how cops get money, yes.
> however, pot was made illegal because Randalph Hearst, DuPont, Andrew Mellon and Henry Anslinger worked together to secure their vast petrochemical/timber empires from being replaced by hemp.
> it is not used for fuel yet because we killed the world hemp industry - we made every country sign a UN pact not to grow hemp.


But many countries _are_ in fact growing,processing and selling hemp. Several of these countries, particularly in Europe have major green energy programs. If Hemp were truly viable as an energy source don't you think some country, that is not beholdant to the Oil companies, would be developing it? I think so. Look hemp is great for food and fiber and some fuel and lubricants could be made from it but honestly burning hemp seed oil is as bad as burning corn in the form of ethanol. Honestly there is no reason to _burn_ anything to produce energy and that is the direction we should be going.


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## ford442 (Nov 4, 2012)

why haven't developed nations with no connection to big oil already abandoned oil/coal for wind/solar?

hemp creates hempoline at a rate of 300 gallons per acre and burns 90% cleaner. these numbers did not appear magically. but, i guess that we can shove our heads up our collective asses and trust coal/oil for another 100 years instead. that is what big money wants. that is what we will get. who's side are you on? petrochemicals = death. hemp = renewable energy. you have not done any research it sounds like. look up hempoline vs ethanol before you kill more innocent muslims, whales, polar bears and upset the planetary weather for money. hemp was banned for decades - it needs to be legal and tested before you fucking condemn it again.


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## echlectica (Nov 4, 2012)

ford442 said:


> why haven't developed nations with no connection to big oil already abandoned oil/coal for wind/solar?


Some have... Just look at what Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark and many others are doing. Wind and solar works. Stop burning shit.


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## echlectica (Nov 4, 2012)

ford442 said:


> why haven't developed nations with no connection to big oil already abandoned oil/coal for wind/solar?
> 
> hemp creates hempoline at a rate of 300 gallons per acre and burns 90% cleaner. these numbers did not appear magically. but, i guess that we can shove our heads up our collective asses and trust coal/oil for another 100 years instead. that is what big money wants. that is what we will get. who's side are you on? petrochemicals = death. hemp = renewable energy. you have not done any research it sounds like. look up hempoline vs ethanol before you kill more innocent muslims, whales, polar bears and upset the planetary weather for money. hemp was banned for decades - it needs to be legal and tested before you fucking condemn it again.


Listen kid I knew Jack Herer and worked for him in the 80's and 90's. have no doubt that Hempoline is a great thing but a viable fuel source for the masses I doubt it. Stop believing the propaganda from both sides. I had this same discussion with him and he even agreed that it would be better to have wind and solar than to burn anything for energy.I never once defended any oil companies so your questioning of Who's side I'm on is pretty fucking offensive. Do you own a prius or ride a bike? Do you burn a shit ton of electricity to grow your weed its you thats a hypocrite. I don't know why you went there other than a weakness in your arguement, typical west coaster move. I


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## ctwalrus (Nov 4, 2012)

its about all of it... 
think about the jobs of mj being illegal create from the officers themselves to the people who train them and the people who make their uniforms. 
then hemp, the oil and lumber industries would plummet. straight fall from the sky. 
you can outproduce construction based lumber! 
the inner celulouse combined with oil derived from the hemp seed can produce a building block lighter than styrofoam and stronger than concrete.. its also self insulating.
it would be revolutionary. 
not to mention that hemp breathes co2 and replaces with oxygen at a higher ratio than any other plant tested so far. 


so many companies would go belly up over fucking night its not even funny. 
and all of the politicians credibility too.


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## ford442 (Nov 4, 2012)

if i could do that then i clearly would have already.

burning hemp would be better than burning coal yes or no?


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## ford442 (Nov 4, 2012)

didn't see you next post - generalizing millions of west coast americans a little? i have no car and i will never indoor grow. good luck moving directly from blood oil to solar panels.


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Nov 4, 2012)

wind energy is pretty terrible imo. i live in britain which is a lot smaller than america obviously, and theyre trying to pile those turbines everywhere, im talking thousands lined up. ugly things that have ruined landscapes and made ghost towns from their low frequency noise. plus they kill rare birds and theres plenty of periods of low wind when theyre effectively useless. better than nuclear i guess but gotta be something less intrusive for such a small island.


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## echlectica (Nov 4, 2012)

North america is no Island, we have vast unused deserts and plains with no one living anywhere around, Oh well sorry about the birds. And speaking of Islands Up in Scandinavia they put them out in the water along the coast lines so they are not near people and get constant wind.
Hemp is a great source for fiber and oils for polymers etc but It will never make a good fuel. 

I just remembered, that you can get more ethanol from Hemp than corn but that is the only way I would say to use it as a fuel Hemp Oil is food not fuel.


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## echlectica (Nov 4, 2012)

ford442 said:


> didn't see you next post - generalizing millions of west coast americans a little? i have no car and i will never indoor grow. good luck moving directly from blood oil to solar panels.


Your right I should not generalize everyone on the west coast because you have a weak position and resorted to a personal attack in a discussion about Hemp oil. If your going to use terms like "blood oil", I'm going to remind you then that we all have blood on our hands. You don't live under a rock so you benefit from it the same as every American, you don't get to wash your hands of it just becuase you bum rides off people or ride bike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FULpplzOy8U


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