# My 8hr flowering experiment



## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

Ok so im not sure if anyone else had attempted to actually try this new lighting schedule or if anyone read the article.
Anyhow in skunks feb/march issue there was an article on alternative lighting schedules and i was very curious if their is any validity to it and figure the best way to find out is to try it myself.

Basically the article says that a flowering or fruiting plant only needs a 6 hr light schedule so 6/18 is supposed to give you tighter bigger fatter buds in less flowering time than 12:12


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

I have 
2 bodhi apolloxsnowlotus
2 ghs chemdog
2 chuckys bride lemon skunk all under a scrog screen on 6/18.

They are in 12" tall 5x5" square pots with promix with a lil lime and coco mixed in.
I have used earth juice grow during veg for a month flushed for 4 days and now using earth juice bloom, bud candy vitathrive.

Not much to look at yet but i will put up a few pics later.


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

The second part of this experiment is the chemdog plants from ghs.
Now trust me no one hates the ghs douchebags personalities more than me but these seeds were a bday gift so i figured why not run em and see.
I popped 3 and all three are vibrant healthy and stink already so im optimistic


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## 2004play (Mar 27, 2015)

Be interesting to see a test run of the the same strain one under 12/12 one under 6/18

I've done it with 12/12 vs 11/13 and there was no difference other than saving a bit on the hydro bill


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

Ya i should have included that part lol sorry my bad.
I have the same amount of each strain cureently going under a 1000watter in a buddies room. He is old school 12/12 kinda guy and thinks im nuts.
I will try to weight my harvest vs his but he is running a bigger light with more plants so it should be comparable


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 27, 2015)

Interested in this experiment...thanks for sharing!


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

No prob 
Im super excited by the idea because as far as i can see this could be a game changer for everyone if it actually works.

Fingers crossed.
They have been under 6/18 for almost a week so only 7 more to go hopefully lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 27, 2015)

torontoke said:


> No prob
> Im super excited by the idea because as far as i can see this could be a game changer for everyone if it actually works.
> 
> Fingers crossed.
> They have been under 6/18 for almost a week so only 7 more to go hopefully lol


How much experience do you have growing the strains you are growing with the nutrients you are using? The reason I ask is that without a direct side by side for comparison purposes, will you be able to provide meaningful conclusions?


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

These strains are currently in about week 6-7 at my buddies. I will have a pretty good baseline to compare my results with. These specific strains and setup this is a complete trial.

I have grown out probably close to 50 different strains over the last 15 ys in many different environments.
From everyone ive talked to tho this light cycle is either goin to work or not there is not much middle ground possibility.

As long as the plants bud decently and manage a similar yield to 12/12 i will consider it a success.
I think the value of running your light 50% less is worth it


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## thenotsoesoteric (Mar 27, 2015)

I can't image this working, well at least in giving you a descent yield any way. If it work every grower would be using this method instead of 12/12.


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

I agree it sounds unlikely.
However before calling bullshit on an article that a magazine editor deemed feasible scientifically enough to print i figured i should try it myself.
I know many many old school guys that just do things because thats the way its always worked, and while i agree most roads in the field are already paved breakthroughs are proven all the time.
When i told my buddy about dwc five years ago he laughed and called it a fad.
If this works it will save me a shitload of hydro costs for the rest of my days. Yours aswell if you watch this thread and it works lol
And if it doesnt then we can all call bullshit and it will have cost me 6 plants


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## makka (Mar 27, 2015)

Very interested but I'm doubtful isn't this the old gas lantern routine? Or similar?


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

The article actually goes out of its way to specifically say its not the gas lantern routine. 

Im going to find a link to the article if i can and post it.


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## makka (Mar 27, 2015)

torontoke said:


> The article actually goes out of its way to specifically say its not the gas lantern routine.
> 
> Im going to find a link to the article if i can and post it.


Would be nice I wasn't aware of any others with such large time changes tbh


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

I cant find the article online anywhere.
Its the feb/march issue of skunk. The article is called "control your cannabis,deux" by joe pietri.


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## anzohaze (Mar 27, 2015)

Subbed up


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2015)

Should maybe start by saying that considering the plants will officially be one week into flower as of sunday i am surprised that when i check on them i am surprised they arent wilting or showing negative side effects.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 28, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Should maybe start by saying that considering the plants will officially be one week into flower as of sunday i am surprised that when i check on them i am surprised they arent wilting or showing negative side effects.


Would you mind posting pictures periodically?


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## Daggy (Mar 28, 2015)

Post some pics!!!


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

I will post pics.
Just not much to see right now.
Next time im in the cabinet i will take a few pics


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## Dadioski (Mar 28, 2015)

Light=energy=healthyplants=moreTHC
Don't think this can improve anything other than the electric bill. Yawn..


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

Im fine with it only helping the electric bill.
Actually thats all im hoping for but thanks for stopping by


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## Ace Yonder (Mar 28, 2015)

I'm interested to see how this goes! And for whoever was asking, this isn't gas lantern technique, however gas lantern technique is kinda like a similar flipside version of this for veg, because GLT is meant to cut veg down from 18 hours of light to 13 hours of light by using a veg cycle broken into 12 hours light, 5.5 hours dark, 1 hour light, 5.5 hours dark, the idea being that the one hour of light is enough to prevent flowering hormones from building up, and that the increased hours of dark are actually a beneficial "rest" period. I've never tried it so I can't speak to it's efficacy, but I have done a bit of research into it and it was brought up so I figured why not share. If this 6hr flower works out, I would love to try running GLT in veg and this in flower and really saving some serious moolah on the power bill. Consider me subbed up!


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## makka (Mar 28, 2015)

Ace Yonder said:


> I'm interested to see how this goes! And for whoever was asking, this isn't gas lantern technique, however gas lantern technique is kinda like a similar flipside version of this for veg, because GLT is meant to cut veg down from 18 hours of light to 13 hours of light by using a veg cycle broken into 12 hours light, 5.5 hours dark, 1 hour light, 5.5 hours dark, the idea being that the one hour of light is enough to prevent flowering hormones from building up, and that the increased hours of dark are actually a beneficial "rest" period. I've never tried it so I can't speak to it's efficacy, but I have done a bit of research into it and it was brought up so I figured why not share. If this 6hr flower works out, I would love to try running GLT in veg and this in flower and really saving some serious moolah on the power bill. Consider me subbed up!


That would be really good!
I've heard some strains don't do very well with GLR/glt is this true?
Can cause Hermie's or something like that?


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

Exactly what i was thinking ace
But if no one tries it no one will know right.
I know the glt works for veg ive seen it work a few years ago


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## chuck estevez (Mar 28, 2015)

if it was true that less light equals bigger buds, Lower wattage lights would produce huge yields, and we all know that the more light the bigger yields, so, No, just no.


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## Ace Yonder (Mar 28, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> if it was true that less light equals bigger buds, Lower wattage lights would produce huge yields, and we all know that the more light the bigger yields, so, No, just no.


By that kind of blanket logic 24 hours of light during flower would be great, right?


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> if it was true that less light equals bigger buds, Lower wattage lights would produce huge yields, and we all know that the more light the bigger yields, so, No, just no.


It was never said that less light equals more buds.
Instead they state that less hours of light produce a faster growth rate because people tend to believe the plants get nothing out of the dark period. I disagree.


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

And too much light is never bad either right?
The article says that most plants under 12/12 recieve twice as much usable light than they can process.
Wasted light equals wasted money. Thats just common sense.
I know that some of the people on here will say im wastin my time and they may be right but what if im not


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## makka (Mar 28, 2015)

I read somat other day about trying to induce red nm light in flower dark cycle?
Sure it was on riu?
As the plant can still use this spectrum or sonar I'm not to sure so don't qoute me if it works or not??
Interesting tho.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 28, 2015)

Ace Yonder said:


> By that kind of blanket logic 24 hours of light during flower would be great, right?


no, because, we ALL know the plant won't flower with 24 hrs of light.


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

Hey chuck im not arguing on something that as far as ive seen no one has actually tried.
You may be right its a waste but thats ok.
Its worth the risk to me.
I didnt write the article or have any vested interest man just trying an experiment that could help us all


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## chuck estevez (Mar 28, 2015)

torontoke said:


> It was never said that less light equals more buds.
> Instead they state that less hours of light produce a faster growth rate because people tend to believe the plants get nothing out of the dark period. I disagree.


I agree that a lot happens in the dark, i think i see the biggest change in buds size after the dark period vs the light. I guess we will see. Good for you on trying it.


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

I read an article a while ago about a team of breeders that were trying to develope a strain that actually flowered in the dark they called it the vampyre strain.
Now that seemed impossible and im not surprised i havent heard about it since. Thats a crazy idea but again if it worked id want to know about it


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

Anyway back to my cab.
These plants are under a 400mh/hps 
Temps are around 80-85 
Humidity is around 40-45
Screen has filled out pretty good considering they have only been under it for a week


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## Gaz29 (Mar 28, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Anyway back to my cab.
> These plants are under a 400mh/hps
> Temps are around 80-85
> Humidity is around 40-45
> Screen has filled out pretty good considering they have only been under it for a week


Torontoke,I'll be watching this post with interest as I'm gonna be flowering shortly and I also agree that plants NEED dark periods,it's gotta help.! Anyway i may copy your technique on next flowering, keep us updated..
Cheers..


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

Its not my technique homie
Im just being a willing guinea pig in the hopes that it works.
Its joe pietris article and i think it will either work or not. If i get a few weeks into flower and its not working i will switch back to 10/14 or 11/13
Only time will tell now.
I will keep this thread updated as it goes along.


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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)




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## torontoke (Mar 28, 2015)

Here a few pics to prove the plants are still alive and are actually under the screen and light.
I was wrong or overmedicated when i said id lose 6 plants theres actually 8 under the screen but two are tiny and were easy to not count. 
So theres 2 chemdog
2 apollo x snowlotus
3 chuckys bride x lemon skunk and 1 solo stash x phantom cookies


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## makka (Mar 30, 2015)

Are they stretchy due to the light routine?


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## torontoke (Mar 30, 2015)

No they are stretchy cus the cabinet gets super hot and i cant keep the light as close as id like.
They look way stretchier in the pics then they are tho.
The tallest stretchiest one is only 20"tall.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 30, 2015)

Just wanted to say again that I appreciate you doing this experiment and sharing with us.


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## Horsetooth (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm excited to see the results as well but I do struggle with the logic a little. Just about everywhere cannabis originates gets around 12 hours sun 12 hours night save an hour or two variance.

Are you saying cannabis has evolved to not efficiently use the resources it naturally has access too?

This would save me $350 a month if it works... DAYUM. 

CHEERING FOR YOU @torontoke!


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## torontoke (Mar 30, 2015)

Horsetooth said:


> I'm excited to see the results as well but I do struggle with the logic a little. Just about everywhere cannabis originates gets around 12 hours sun 12 hours night save an hour or two variance.
> 
> Are you saying cannabis has evolved to not efficiently use the resources it naturally has access too?
> 
> ...


No the basic argument of the article is that anything more than 6 hrs is too much light for the plants to process. 6 is supposedly the realistic amount of light actually needed by a fruiting or flowering plant.
Because the cycle is so short it is suppose to kickstart the plant into flowering faster because it only has those few hours to work with.

Again not my article but im the try it first type so we shall see


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## chuck estevez (Mar 30, 2015)

torontoke said:


> No the basic argument of the article is that anything more than 6 hrs is too much light for the plants to process. 6 is supposedly the realistic amount of light actually needed by a fruiting or flowering plant.
> Because the cycle is so short it is suppose to kickstart the plant into flowering faster because it only has those few hours to work with.
> 
> Again not my article but im the try it first type so we shall see


so, if this light schedule does speed up flowering response, I would say you should see flowers any day.right?


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## torontoke (Mar 30, 2015)

Ya thats sort of my understanding aswell.
Im not really sure what my expectations were.
Most people i asked avout this before trying it said the plants would probably wilt shivel and die and they arent. So thats step one lol


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## chuck estevez (Mar 30, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Ya thats sort of my understanding aswell.
> Im not really sure what my expectations were.
> Most people i asked avout this before trying it said the plants would probably wilt shivel and die and they arent. So thats step one lol


even if it doesn't speed it up, but they still start flowering as usual, you still win.


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## torontoke (Mar 30, 2015)

I just had to go check now to see and ya i would say the flowers are forming and the little hairs are starting to shoot out. Now i wouldnt say it looks like its further along than usually since it is only a week in.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 30, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I just had to go check now to see and ya i would say the flowers are forming and the little hairs are starting to shoot out. Now i wouldnt say it looks like its further along than usually since it is only a week in.


showing flowers after 1 week is awesome. so far so good then.


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## torontoke (Mar 30, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Just wanted to say again that I appreciate you doing this experiment and sharing with us.


Thanks man i appreciate it.
The way i see it im just taking one for the team.
I tend to be a pessimist and expect negative but the hope of the possibilities in my mind out weigh the risk.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Mar 30, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Thanks man i appreciate it.
> The way i see it im just taking one for the team.
> I tend to be a pessimist and expect negative but the hope of the possibilities in my mind out weigh the risk.


If you're afraid to fail then you won't take risks and you will never achieve anything great. Safe is boring.


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## torontoke (Mar 30, 2015)

Believe me im as big of a dreamer as they come lol
I have big plans once i finally find a house and move away.
Thats why this experiment is so important to me. Im hoping to one day be off the electrical grid and only needing half the juice would save me a fortune on batteries etc


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## torontoke (Apr 1, 2015)

Well after leaving everything alone for two days i was surprised today to find that the solo stash phantom cookies had balls bigger than mine.
So one down. The rest are all looking 100 female and are preflowering up.
I wouldnt say the flowering is sped up at all but things are alive and healthy looking.
Half a dozen shoots are now sticking out above the screen.


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## chuck estevez (Apr 1, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Well after leaving everything alone for two days i was surprised today to find that the solo stash phantom cookies had balls bigger than mine.
> So one down. The rest are all looking 100 female and are preflowering up.
> I wouldnt say the flowering is sped up at all but things are alive and healthy looking.
> Half a dozen shoots are now sticking out above the screen.


does the article say to start 6/18 or 12/12 for first 2 weeks and then step it down?


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## Soon The Light (Apr 1, 2015)

Excellent thread. Someone has to do the physical science, even if the proof looks good on paper. Sounds like one of those things you just have to try for yourself. Light during veg is one thing. Light during flowering is something else, there may be much more (or "less") to it than we know. Good luck and thanks for actually doing the work, curious to see how the experiment turns out.


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## torontoke (Apr 1, 2015)

It says that he tried it many different ways before concluding that going straight to 6/18 will work and save the most money on electricity.
On the lil write up box it says for veg you can either do 12 on 5 1/2 off 1on 5 1/2 off. Or 30 mins on/off 6 times then 5 1/2 off 1on 5 1/2 off.
Flower 6 on 18 off.
I skipped the entire veg process because i dont have room for these to get that much bigger.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 1, 2015)

did the article have any pics of a side by side with 12/12 vs 8/16? or was this just this guys theory? wish you had a time machine to fast forward 7 weeks. good luck!


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## torontoke (Apr 1, 2015)

rkymtnman said:


> did the article have any pics of a side by side with 12/12 vs 8/16? or was this just this guys theory? wish you had a time machine to fast forward 7 weeks. good luck!


You and me both man lol.
No the article shows pics but those could be from plants grown on the moon for all i know.
I did go read the writers facebook page and there were alot of side by side pics on there.
Im just the type that likes to try new things and draw my own conclusions.


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 1, 2015)

I don't think you get anywhere near the size of harvest as 12/12. My buddy, like 10 years ago, did something like this. Not because he was experimenting but because he was a little dense, to put it lightly. He decided to flower for like 6 or 8 hours because he didn't like the $100 electric bill. All he got were weak little popcorn buds from a skunk #1 that typically yielded quite well. Good luck.


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## bryleetch (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm glad somebody decided to try this, I was actually thinking about doing the same sort of thing when I first got wind of this technique but decided it'd be pointless with out any sort of a control to compare it too. If this works out for you I think I may have to follow this up with the same type deal but involving clones. 

I love any sort of experiment people post on here, whether they're 100% scientific or not... its good to see growers trying to test out things that are normally just accepted


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## torontoke (Apr 2, 2015)

These were clones of plants that are being grown out now.
Half were vegged a month the other half two weeks.
But nothing from seed.
I think i will get a good idea for the differences when its all said and done.
As long as it flowers at all i will consider it successful enough to play around with the light maybe try 8. And see if theres a significant increase etc.


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## GrowUrOwnDank (Apr 2, 2015)

I have to admit. I use different combinations. Like using a CFL and an LED on a 12/12 during late flower. The unproven theory, that the different types of light may contain a spectrum the other may not have the plant can use. Recently purchased an 150 HPS, so. I am also always thinking about ways to save $$$ on electricity. Perhaps run 2 timers and put the HPS on a 2 on 2 off for a 12 hour period and using the LED while the HPS is off during the 12 hour period? Use the HPS alone for 2 on 2 off, then use the LED and CFL to fill in? Combinations are endless though. 

If you think about it, if the plant can only absorb and process so much light during any given period? Why not use a 1 hour on and 1 hour off cycle during a 12 hour period? 

Who knows right?

Good luck OP. If the results are flat or even barely below par in terms of yield, that's a win. Some may choose to save a few dollars in electricity unless the the outcome truly suffers. What if the results are positive? WIN WIN. 

Subbed for the ride.


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## Chester da Horse (Apr 2, 2015)

GrowUrOwnDank said:


> I am also always thinking about ways to save $$$ on electricity. Perhaps run 2 timers and put the HPS on a 2 on 2 off for a 12 hour period ...


but won't you toast your HID bulb switching it on and off that much? Cost/benefit might bite you in the arse there...


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## GrowUrOwnDank (Apr 2, 2015)

Chester da Horse said:


> but won't you toast your HID bulb switching it on and off that much? Cost/benefit might bite you in the arse there...


To tell the truth. I honestly don't know. If it were to significantly deteriorate the life span of the bulb, without any increase in yield I doubt it would be worth it. Anyway. Just throwing around fleeting thoughts here. 

Good point.


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## k_elliott99 (Apr 3, 2015)

Subscribed! Lets get updated pics!


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## Mr.Goodtimes (Apr 3, 2015)

I'm sub' in, seems like an interesting concept. Thanks for logging this torontoke.

More pics would be nice


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## torontoke (Apr 4, 2015)

Sorry guys
Had planned on posting some updated pics but had a pretty serious medical emergency and wound up in the hospital
I will get some pics up as soon as i can.
Thanks for the interest


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## Ace Yonder (Apr 4, 2015)

I hope all goes well and healing happens quickly! Best wishes!


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## k_elliott99 (Apr 4, 2015)

Best wishes buddy! Get well soon!


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 4, 2015)

This will be OK for anecdotal evidence, but without a control, flowered under 12/12 at the same time, using the same nutes, etc..it's a highly uncontrolled experiment......



torontoke said:


> *These were clones of plants* that are being grown out now.
> *Half were vegged a month the other half two weeks.
> But nothing from seed.*
> I think i will get a good idea for the differences when its all said and done.
> As long as it flowers at all i will consider it successful enough to play around with the light maybe try 8. And see if theres a significant increase etc.


Because of this^..plants were vegged at different rates. Didn't you say you popped beans for this?



torontoke said:


> The second part of this experiment is the chemdog plants from ghs.
> Now trust me no one hates the ghs douchebags personalities more than me but these seeds were a bday gift so i figured why not run em and see.
> *I popped 3 and all three are vibrant healthy and stink already* so im optimistic


I've been looking into a 6/6/6/6/ flower cycle, only because it would be an easier way to regulate temps in my area, but finding any accurate testing as to whether it's a valid theory is isn't easy.


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## mainliner (Apr 4, 2015)

subadubdubed


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## bryleetch (Apr 4, 2015)

WeedFreak78 said:


> This will be OK for anecdotal evidence, but without a control, flowered under 12/12 at the same time, using the same nutes, etc..it's a highly uncontrolled experiment......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then test it yourself... thats what torontoke is doing... doesn't need to be an experiment following scientific method to the T when your just posting the results on a forum, not an academic journal.

I'm doubtful that 6/6/6/6 would work as I doubt 6 hours would be enough for the Pfr: Pr levels to reach the flowering threshold. Although your giving them the same ratio of light as 12/12, cannabis is a "short day plant" but more accurately it should be called a "long night" plant because the length of the dark period, not the light period, determines if a plant flowers or vegs. The science behind that is with the phytochromes, Pfr and Pr. Pr converts to the active form Pfr in the presence of red light (almost immediately). Pfr converts to Pr in the presence of far redlight and darkness (much more gradual). So with the 6/6/6/6 the plants would get about halfway to reach that threshold, lights would come on and revert everything back to Pfr, then lights off again for 6 hours just to end up where you started. Google will give you a better idea on the whole phytochrome thing than me but thought I'd help you out with your quest for a valid theory on this


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## torontoke (Apr 4, 2015)

WeedFreak78 said:


> This will be OK for anecdotal evidence, but without a control, flowered under 12/12 at the same time, using the same nutes, etc..it's a highly uncontrolled experiment......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The entire point of the experiment is to find out if the plants will flower using only 6 hrs of light.
Its wont matter if they were seeds or clones or how big they are.
I only need to know if they will flower


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 4, 2015)

bryleetch said:


> Then test it yourself... thats what torontoke is doing... doesn't need to be an experiment following scientific method to the T when your just posting the results on a forum, not an academic journal.
> 
> I'm doubtful that 6/6/6/6 would work as I doubt 6 hours would be enough for the Pfr: Pr levels to reach the flowering threshold. Although your giving them the same ratio of light as 12/12, cannabis is a "short day plant" but more accurately it should be called a "long night" plant because the length of the dark period, not the light period, determines if a plant flowers or vegs. The science behind that is with the phytochromes, Pfr and Pr. Pr converts to the active form Pfr in the presence of red light (almost immediately). Pfr converts to Pr in the presence of far redlight and darkness (much more gradual). So with the 6/6/6/6 the plants would get about halfway to reach that threshold, lights would come on and revert everything back to Pfr, then lights off again for 6 hours just to end up where you started. Google will give you a better idea on the whole phytochrome thing than me but thought I'd help you out with your quest for a valid theory on this


, I recently had a conversation with someone about light leaks in a flowering room, and was explaining to them, not quiet as technically..lol, about this process of light destroying the flowering trigger.. I'm a little annoyed now it didn't click when I started looking into alternate light cycles the other day. Which is probably why, as I said..."finding any accurate testing as to whether it's a valid theory is isn't easy."


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## bryleetch (Apr 4, 2015)

Maybe I'll try it out just so there's some tangible evidence because I see people considering funky light schedules like that pretty often but never someone going through with it... I've got a seedling and some CFLs I can spare lol


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## torontoke (Apr 4, 2015)

Unfortunately i am unable to take pics today but i will get some pics up in the next few days.
All the plants are definately flowering and it appears the light cycle is working. 
Not sure if the plants are further along than if they were under 12/12 but they do look like they are in second week of flower regardless of schedule.
Im begining to become optimistic about this.


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## 2004play (Apr 4, 2015)

Sounds like it's going good, look forward to seeing the pics when your up to it


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## k_elliott99 (Apr 5, 2015)

For sure get well and cant wait to see updated pics!


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## Dr. Who (Apr 5, 2015)

The idea for this whole schmear came from a paper from 1913 in France from a man named Julien Tournois....He was growing Hops and Hemp "underglass" (old term for greenhouse growing) He found that they would "flower most precociously in winter". He observed that they would flower _most _rapidly when allowed _only 6 hours of daylight._

Further intel
https://books.google.com/books?id=wh9sW9QII6kC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=Julien+Tournois&source=bl&ots=CVDfEmC5DZ&sig=-lnx1NhB-Puu5zHT4rqocBVjqy8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5V8hVe2PN4SLsAXfq4CADw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Julien Tournois&f=false
and 
https://books.google.com/books?id=c25eErZbHr4C&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=Julien+Tournois&source=bl&ots=YRtz8wMTYb&sig=8atR4ux-mp3S57Z_zTJRDaveoaA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5V8hVe2PN4SLsAXfq4CADw&ved=0CD0Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Julien Tournois&f=false

Google Julien Tournois and you will eventually find all sorts of views on this idea as it stands in regard to basic plant growth to C3 plant function manipulation....

Do NOT use logic to explain what you believe to be fact on this topic......

The OP _is _making an acceptable experiment to discover the useable information it can supply.....I am about to do a commercial size run in a side by side test to determine the commercial viability of this theory in actual application.....I will not be starting this phase for another 8 weeks.....I will cover the experiment here also.

Till that time. I AM closely following this thread!!!

WELL DONE so far! @torontoke

Doc


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## k_elliott99 (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. Who said:


> The idea for this whole schmear came from a paper from 1913 in France from a man named Julien Tournois....He was growing Hops and Hemp "underglass" (old term for greenhouse growing) He found that they would "flower most precociously in winter". He observed that they would flower _most _rapidly when allowed _only 6 hours of daylight._
> 
> Further intel
> https://books.google.com/books?id=wh9sW9QII6kC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=Julien Tournois&source=bl&ots=CVDfEmC5DZ&sig=-lnx1NhB-Puu5zHT4rqocBVjqy8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5V8hVe2PN4SLsAXfq4CADw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Julien Tournois&f=false
> ...


Be sure to update when u start the journal


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## torontoke (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. Who said:


> The idea for this whole schmear came from a paper from 1913 in France from a man named Julien Tournois....He was growing Hops and Hemp "underglass" (old term for greenhouse growing) He found that they would "flower most precociously in winter". He observed that they would flower _most _rapidly when allowed _only 6 hours of daylight._
> 
> Further intel
> https://books.google.com/books?id=wh9sW9QII6kC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=Julien Tournois&source=bl&ots=CVDfEmC5DZ&sig=-lnx1NhB-Puu5zHT4rqocBVjqy8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5V8hVe2PN4SLsAXfq4CADw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Julien Tournois&f=false
> ...


Thanks doc
I am unable to even water these girls for a lil while now so i will have to get my gf to water and take some pics for me. I will post them tonight or tomorrow.


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## torontoke (Apr 6, 2015)

Super bummed out that i couldnt get any better pics but my gf did her best.
Hopefully in the next couple days i will be able to get in the cab and make some minor changes to get the temp down a bit.
Sitting at 86 and about 30 humidity which cant be helping things much.
Still nothing wilting or dying so small miracles lol.


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## k_elliott99 (Apr 7, 2015)

Hey man tell her we said she is doing good! Everything still looks green! And we are hoping you get well soon buddy! Stay strong


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## torontoke (Apr 7, 2015)

Thanks k_elliot
I appreciate that.


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## Gaz29 (Apr 7, 2015)

torontoke said:


> The entire point of the experiment is to find out if the plants will flower using only 6 hrs of light.
> Its wont matter if they were seeds or clones or how big they are.
> I only need to know if they will flower


So are you keeping plants in a straight 12 hrs of darkness,then 6 on.? Best trying 18 darkness+6 light,that would possibly work... just sum positive input/2cents etc...but good luck what ever you do../watchn this thread with interest.


torontoke said:


> The entire point of the experiment is to find out if the plants will flower using only 6 hrs of light.
> Its wont matter if they were seeds or clones or how big they are.
> I only need to know if they will flower


Torontoke,i think that 6/8 hours light is definitely do-able but do you give them only 6hours of darkness or (makes sense to me)18 darkness n 6 hrs light..? I know your experimenting,but doesn't mj NEED @least 12 darkness before it'll flower..or are u getting flowering plants by ONLY giving them 6straight hrs of dark.? Did you give a long dark period before starting flowering?..
By the way,I'm following this thread n think what your trying is gonna be good for everyones electricity bills if it's viable.!
Keep up the good work..


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## torontoke (Apr 7, 2015)

Gaz29 said:


> So are you keeping plants in a straight 12 hrs of darkness,then 6 on.? Best trying 18 darkness+6 light,that would possibly work... just sum positive input/2cents etc...but good luck what ever you do../watchn this thread with interest.
> 
> Torontoke,i think that 6/8 hours light is definitely do-able but do you give them only 6hours of darkness or (makes sense to me)18 darkness n 6 hrs light..? I know your experimenting,but doesn't mj NEED @least 12 darkness before it'll flower..or are u getting flowering plants by ONLY giving them 6straight hrs of dark.? Did you give a long dark period before starting flowering?..
> By the way,I'm following this thread n think what your trying is gonna be good for everyones electricity bills if it's viable.!
> Keep up the good work..


Thanks man
These plants get 6 straight hours of 400watt mh light then 18 hrs of total darkness.
There is zero light leak and these plants are not tended to during the dark period.
So far i woul say that they are in fact budding and my other flower room at a different location will soon be switched to this same light cycle.


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## torontoke (Apr 8, 2015)

Today my gf reported some major wilting going on that im hoping was the girls being hungry.
I talked her through mixing up a nice snack and hopefully it was lack of food bringing em down.
I will get her to take a bunch of pics tomorrow when she goes back in for another heavy watering


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## ISK (Apr 9, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Today my gf reported some major wilting going on that im hoping was the girls being hungry.
> I talked her through mixing up a nice snack and hopefully it was lack of food bringing em down.
> I will get her to take a bunch of pics tomorrow when she goes back in for another heavy watering


I hope she can keep your gals happy until you are back on your feet again...best of wishes and get well soon!


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## k_elliott99 (Apr 9, 2015)

If she gets us more good pics and keeps em healthy give her a big kiss from the riu fam!


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## torontoke (Apr 11, 2015)

So the plants seem to be requiring wayyyy more water than the last strain i ran in this cabinet under 12:12.
I always found that soil plants could typically go 2-3 days between water easily in a pinch however these seem to be needing water every 24 hrs.
I think the pots being so small is part of the issue,
Anyway fed them proper last night and i will try to get some updated pics tonight.

I really hope i am much more mobile next week my greenthumb is itchy.


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## silusbotwin (Apr 11, 2015)

Awesome experiment! Thanks for doing this so we dont have to  I'll be following and watching from the shadows!


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## torontoke (Apr 11, 2015)

So as the first pic shows the plant up in the backcorner turned male and im glad i dragged my broken ass in to catch it.
The other plants seem to budding along nicely.
One thing id say tho is this light schedule isnt doing much for new foliar growth.
Perhaps they should have been vegged longer.

I am excited by the thought that these plants can and will flower under as little as 6 hrs so it definitely merits experimenting more with 7,8,9,10 hours to see how much yield is effected


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## makka (Apr 12, 2015)

making good progress must say


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## UnkleFester (Apr 12, 2015)

Nice stuff man, i think im just gonna watch what happens. 

Sent from my LGMS323 using Rollitup mobile app


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2015)




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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2015)

The shorter plants on the left side are shooting up through the screen. 
All the main colas are producing tons of hairs and are really starting to stink.
Going to have to buy a real carbon scrubber for this cabinet the diy homemade one just isnt keeping up.
I have replaced the plants that turned male with chemdog clones.
Ghs takes alot of negative feedback on this site but im super impressed with whatever this plant really is whether its real chemdog or not. I wont run out and buy many different ghs strains however i wouldnt be as opposed to it as before trying this chem.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 13, 2015)

Looking pretty normal so far to me.


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2015)

To me too hot diggity
Makes me not want to think about the hundreds or thousands ive wasted on the extra hours of electricity over the last bunch of years.
I know most old school guys will never believe it and try anything other than 12/12 but im done with the old ways and couldnt be happier about all the money i will be saving on batteries in the near future.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 13, 2015)

torontoke said:


> To me too hot diggity
> Makes me not want to think about the hundreds or thousands ive wasted on the extra hours of electricity over the last bunch of years.
> I know most old school guys will never believe it and try anything other than 12/12 but im done with the old ways and couldnt be happier about all the money i will be saving on batteries in the near future.


I hear ya. We still got a ways to go before any conclusions can be drawn though


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2015)

Fair enough but so far it looks to be working.
Smells like its working and thats way more than i expected so so far so good.
5-6 more weeks to go i suppose tho


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## King Arthur (Apr 13, 2015)

I am thinking of trying this with one of my crops


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2015)

My buddy told me i shouldnt post the results and say fuk it let everyone keep paying for 12 hours but i genuinely get a kick out of "trying to help the cause."
I have seen with my own two eyes that even 6 hrs will put the plants to flower so i think its safe to say it looks like anything from 6-12/12 will cause flowering to start.
Now me being the cheap ass that i am i will continue to try to use a little electricity as possible lol.

If i can cut electrical usage by 50% and or only need 50% the batteries then giddy the fuk up.


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## k_elliott99 (Apr 13, 2015)

My next dwc grow just may be 6/18 to see how it goes, you have inspired all! (With help from the lady) as always get well!


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2015)

Glad i could be of help...
When i first read the article my jaw dropped open and thought "holy fuck this could change everything"
And it seems as tho perhaps it really can change everything.
We will have to wait to see how long it takes to flower and if the yield is worthwhile but its looking too good to not get excited.
Im glad i dont listen to my firends advice and decided to share this with the group.


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## k_elliott99 (Apr 13, 2015)

I cant wait to try it in hydro and see what I get as I have 2 in 12/12 that will finish up in the next 2weeks at over 20 zips. So I am very excited to attempt this which will begin flower in 2 weeks as soon as my flower room is clear! Not having room for plants is a real struggle!!!


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## Doobius1 (Apr 13, 2015)

Nice experiment TO. Im waiting for the end though before I reset my timers


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2015)

Cant say i blame u one bit doobi. In fact i cant blame anyone for not trying it at all. It is a real risk.
If i didnt have my meds coming from somewhere else i wouldnt have risked it either. Now im glad i did do it tho for everyones sake.


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2015)

Shhhhhhh now dont tell anyone tho cus they wont believe it anywayz lol


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## bryleetch (Apr 13, 2015)

Every time I check in on this I want to try a side by side of my own more and more but I have a couple other experiments in mind as well.. decisions decisions...


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## Doobius1 (Apr 13, 2015)

For sure man my lips are sealed. If it works its nothing but spectacular. The savings could be huge. In theory you could have a special flipbox that does 6 hour cycles and one ballast could do 4 flower rooms. Theres an invention for somebody if it works


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2015)

Lol now that my friend is thinking ahead.
I would rather just run as short as possible myself.
I too was thinking in the begining that if the buds were lagging because they werent getting enough light period u could add a second light and keep your electricity usage the same but my goal isnt more quantity its same quantity just half priced lmfao.
Im kind of excited to try the whacky veg light cycle published in the mag too


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## resinhead (Apr 14, 2015)

Doobius1 said:


> For sure man my lips are sealed. If it works its nothing but spectacular. The savings could be huge. In theory you could have a special flipbox that does 6 hour cycles and one ballast could do 4 flower rooms. Theres an invention for somebody if it works


That is a very clever idea! The extra flower rooms would very likely make up for any lost yield.


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## RM3 (Apr 14, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Lol now that my friend is thinking ahead.
> I would rather just run as short as possible myself.
> I too was thinking in the begining that if the buds were lagging because they werent getting enough light period u could add a second light and keep your electricity usage the same but my goal isnt more quantity its same quantity just half priced lmfao.
> Im kind of excited to try the whacky veg light cycle published in the mag too


If it was the Gas Lantern Routine, I have been usin it for bout a year now, is totally awesome, as for flower I am currently at 8.5 on but gonna go down to 6.5 soon


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## torontoke (Apr 14, 2015)

Its not quite the gas lantern technique but im glad im not the only mad scientist type on here lol
Im seeing more and more people come out of the woodwork fed up with paying hydro costs to run 12/12


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## Gaz29 (Apr 14, 2015)

torontoke said:


> My buddy told me i shouldnt post the results and say fuk it let everyone keep paying for 12 hours but i genuinely get a kick out of "trying to help the cause."
> I have seen with my own two eyes that even 6 hrs will put the plants to flower so i think its safe to say it looks like anything from 6-12/12 will cause flowering to start.
> Now me being the cheap ass that i am i will continue to try to use a little electricity as possible lol.
> 
> If i can cut electrical usage by 50% and or only need 50% the batteries then giddy the fuk up.


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## Gaz29 (Apr 14, 2015)

How long do you reckon til they're done.. n what/how are your buddies' plants doing (he's got same strains under 12/12,right..?)
How


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## torontoke (Apr 14, 2015)

Another 5-6 weeks atleast.
My buddy just harvested all his last week they are in the drying/curing process now.
Looks and smells delicious


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)

After tasting these strains grown out at my buddies i was super excited to get in the cab for an update.
I must say some of my optimism is waning.
While all the plants are definately flowering they dont seem to growing or packing on any weight.
Will give em another week and if i dont see any size increase in the buds i will add an hour to flower and see if that helps.
I also lowered the light by 5" hopefully the temp stays managable.


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)




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## NewtoMJ (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> After tasting these strains grown out at my buddies i was super excited to get in the cab for an update.
> I must say some of my optimism is waning.
> While all the plants are definately flowering they dont seem to growing or packing on any weight.
> Will give em another week and if i dont see any size increase in the buds i will add an hour to flower and see if that helps.
> I also lowered the light by 5" hopefully the temp stays managable.


Did you get a chance to see the progress of your buddies plants at the same time in the flowering period? I've had a few just sputter till the final few weeks. I really like this experiment and want it to work, so may be my hopes talking.


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)

Ya i saw those through the whole process.
Its his house but my room lol.
I brought all the strains there and did all the work.
These in this cabinet are smaller for sure.
I just hit em with a heavy feed with some additives.
Might have something to do with the last couple weeks when my gf had to feed n water.

Hopefully they bounce back and grow like hell soon


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> After tasting these strains grown out at my buddies i was super excited to get in the cab for an update.
> I must say some of my optimism is waning.
> While all the plants are definately flowering they dont seem to growing or packing on any weight.
> Will give em another week and if i dont see any size increase in the buds i will add an hour to flower and see if that helps.
> I also lowered the light by 5" hopefully the temp stays managable.


I love the optimistic approach, but as I stated at the beginning of this thread and was ignored. I have already seen someone do a shorten duration of lights on for flower. A buddy about 10 years ago wanted to reduce his electric bill so he tried flowering out with limited hours of light (roughly 6 hours I believe) from his 1k hps and his harvest was not even half of what I pulled with a 400w hps. He also suck hard at growing and typically I still pulled more off my 400 watter than he ever did off a 1k watter. 6 hours will bud out plants but it will diminish your harvest substantially. Cheers and hopefully you have better results than my old friend.


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)

thenotsoesoteric said:


> I love the optimistic approach, but as I stated at the beginning of this thread and was ignored. I have already seen someone do a shorten duration of lights on for flower. A buddy about 10 years ago wanted to reduce his electric bill so he tried flowering out with limited hours of light (roughly 6 hours I believe) from his 1k hps and his harvest was not even half of what I pulled with a 400w hps. He also suck hard at growing and typically I still pulled more off my 400 watter than he ever did off a 1k watter. 6 hours will bud out plants but it will diminish your harvest substantially. Cheers and hopefully you have better results than my old friend.


I wasnt ignoring your previous post. I remember reading it clearly bud.
However if everyone listened to everyword ever posted on the interwebs we'd all have 12" cocks and a billion dollars in the bank and no need to ever do anything lol.
Ive had a minimum of ten old school growers that i know flat out laugh at me and make jokes about the article and me trying this experiment but what can i say im a glutton for punishment.
4-5 more weeks and i will be right there with ya except i could then say "i tried it, dont bother"

Heres to hoping we are wrong tho lol


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I wasnt ignoring your previous post. I remember reading it clearly bud.
> However if everyone listened to everyword ever posted on the interwebs we'd all have 12" cocks and a billion dollars in the bank and no need to ever do anything lol.
> Ive had a minimum of ten old school growers that i know flat out laugh at me and make jokes about the article and me trying this experiment but what can i say im a glutton for punishment.
> 4-5 more weeks and i will be right there with ya except i could then say "i tried it, dont bother"
> ...


No, I wouldn't laugh at someone when they're actively experimenting, that's where great things sometimes happen. I was just trying to prepare you for the possible out come, either way here's to positive vibes and hopefully you'll get a few ounces to puff on. Cheers.


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## chuck estevez (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3397685


those kinda look like where they should be at this time. I wouldn't mess with anything. Keep going


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)

Oh i plan to see this bitch through to the end.
One way or the other i will get an answer to whether this method works as described in the article.
The light should have be lowered already i just couldnt do it.
We shall see...


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Oh i plan to see this bitch through to the end.
> One way or the other i will get an answer to whether this method works as described in the article.
> The light should have be lowered already i just couldnt do it.
> We shall see...


Not sure of the article you read but in Jorge Cervantes' indoor grow bible he does say that he has talked with some canadian growers that use 6 on 12 off for flowering, he states he has doubts but has yet to visit their gardens to see the results. Maybe that would be a little more productive vs the 18 hours of dark.


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## USbeginnerguy (Apr 17, 2015)

thenotsoesoteric said:


> Not sure of the article you read but in Jorge Cervantes' indoor grow bible he does say that he has talked with some canadian growers that use 6 on 12 off for flowering, he states he has doubts but has yet to visit their gardens to see the results. Maybe that would be a little more productive vs the 18 hours of dark.


Wouldnt 6 on 12 off still kind of be 12/12 just broken up differently, basically 6 on 12 off 6 on? Either way TORONTOKE keep us in the loop great work and good luck!


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)

The article this technique is from is last issue of skunk magazine. The article is controlling your cannabis part deux by joe pietri.
Ive read online that him and jorge are bitter enemies so i consider his opinion biased.


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## chuck estevez (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> The article this technique is from is last issue of skunk magazine. The article is controlling your cannabis part deux by* joe pietri.*
> Ive read online that him and jorge are bitter enemies so i consider his opinion biased.


Joe has a face book page for advanced lighting if you're willing to join


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)

I went on it and read up a bunch and checked out some of the pics but i cant sign up and use my name n shit for obvious reasons.
Perhaps one day


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 17, 2015)

USbeginnerguy said:


> Wouldnt 6 on 12 off still kind of be 12/12 just broken up differently, basically 6 on 12 off 6 on? Either way TORONTOKE keep us in the loop great work and good luck!


No 6 on and 12 off does not equal 12/12, it equal 12/24. So they are completely different.


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> The article this technique is from is last issue of skunk magazine. The article is controlling your cannabis part deux by joe pietri.
> Ive read online that him and jorge are bitter enemies so i consider his opinion biased.


Werd, to be fair though Jorge's book did come out in like 2000 or so. He updates them but it's old information, I'll check out that article. Cheers man.


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## Gaz29 (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> After tasting these strains grown out at my buddies i was super excited to get in the cab for an update.
> I must say some of my optimism is waning.
> While all the plants are definately flowering they dont seem to growing or packing on any weight.
> Will give em another week and if i dont see any size increase in the buds i will add an hour to flower and see if that helps.
> I also lowered the light by 5" hopefully the temp stays managable.


Why not go straight to 8 hrs Torontoke..? I reckon eight hours will help with fattening them up.. 
Hope u took clones (ha  ,as seems these strains are good.. Wishing you luck!


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)

Gaz29 said:


> Why not go straight to 8 hrs Torontoke..? I reckon eight hours will help with fattening them up..
> Hope u took clones (ha  ,as seems these strains are good.. Wishing you luck!


Theres a pile of clones at my other room thats why these looked so lanky in the begining lol
To give the experiment a fair chance is the only reason i havent played with the timer.

Im excited they flowered and didnt herm or die so im optimistic about playing with the timer later and dialing in the maximum yield on total least amount of electric usage.
This isnt strictly about yield or i would just run a bunch critical or big bud like everyone else.


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## numberfour (Apr 17, 2015)

I'm intrigued by this, thanks for sharing and good luck.


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## _MrBelvedere_ (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> No they are stretchy cus the cabinet gets super hot and i cant keep the light as close as id like.
> They look way stretchier in the pics then they are tho.
> The tallest stretchiest one is only 20"tall.


Super hot and bad lighting? Not much of an experiment... Why not focus on growing it correctly?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

USbeginnerguy said:


> Wouldnt 6 on 12 off still kind of be 12/12 just broken up differently, basically 6 on 12 off 6 on? Either way TORONTOKE keep us in the loop great work and good luck!


That's worth looking in to.


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)

_MrBelvedere_ said:


> Super hot and bad lighting? Not much of an experiment... Why not focus on growing it correctly?


Thank you 
But i will continue to do with my experiment as i like.

As stated this isnt a cabinet i rely on to provide myself meds.
However i read an article and decided to tinker and try something out.
I understand and respect your opinion and thank you for taking the time to respond.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Thank you
> But i will continue to do with my experiment as i like.
> 
> As stated this isnt a cabinet i rely on to provide myself meds.
> ...


Stay on target. A lot of people are very interested in what you are doing so just keep going. Thanks!


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## Gaz29 (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Theres a pile of clones at my other room thats why these looked so lanky in the begining lol
> To give the experiment a fair chance is the only reason i havent played with the timer.
> 
> Im excited they flowered and didnt herm or die so im optimistic about playing with the timer later and dialing in the maximum yield on total least amount of electric usage.
> This isnt strictly about yield or i would just run a bunch critical or big bud like everyone else.


I know it's not strictly about yield ,but isn't the experiment abt successfully doing only 6hours of light AND getting close to the same product ,as you would expect with more light..?
Good work.! (following this with interest),as I'm definitely going to try it soon, but NOT made my mind up.! re: 6/10 hrs) yet ..


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## USbeginnerguy (Apr 17, 2015)

thenotsoesoteric said:


> No 6 on and 12 off does not equal 12/12, it equal 12/24. So they are completely different.


I hear you but i dont really agree because a day has 24 hrs which we both know but that is how i came up with it still being similar to 12/12 because its 6 on 12 off 6 on=24 or one day so its still getting 12 hours light and 12 hrs of dark. IMO the benefit is basically making the plant think its seeing more days because of more sunrise sunsets if you will and in essence it blooms faster? Not sure of the outcome but that's the only reasoning i can come up with. Im definitely down for some education if you feel differently have you tried this method and if so how did it work out for you and what benefits do see in this style of growing?


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 17, 2015)

USbeginnerguy said:


> I hear you but i dont really agree because a day has 24 hrs which we both know but that is how i came up with it still being similar to 12/12 because its 6 on 12 off 6 on=24 or one day so its still getting 12 hours light and 12 hrs of dark. IMO the benefit is basically making the plant think its seeing more days because of more sunrise sunsets if you will and in essence it blooms faster? Not sure of the outcome but that's the only reasoning i can come up with. Im definitely down for some education if you feel differently have you tried this method and if so how did it work out for you and what benefits do see in this style of growing?


You basically play god and make the plant's day 18 hours and not 24. So that other 6 hours you're talking about is the next day and not hours 19,20,21,22,23,24. Cheers man.


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## USbeginnerguy (Apr 17, 2015)

thenotsoesoteric said:


> You basically play god and make the plant's day 18 hours and not 24. So that other 6 hours you're talking about is the next day and not hours 19,20,21,22,23,24. Cheers man.


Oh ok i got ya. 

Sorry ToronToke didnt mean to detour the Journal Good Luck Dude


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## ttystikk (Apr 17, 2015)

Interesting stuff. Leaving the timer alone through the whole run would give the most honest results.

I have a digital short cycle timer and I've thought about running twelve off and six to eight on- just never had the guts to try it, lol

I'm very interested to see what the extended dark cycle does for the plants.

Not that you're taking suggestions, but in your shoes I'd leave the timer untouched until the whole cycle is finished.


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## torontoke (Apr 17, 2015)

USbeginnerguy said:


> Wouldnt 6 on 12 off still kind of be 12/12 just broken up differently, basically 6 on 12 off 6 on? Either way TORONTOKE keep us in the loop great work and good luck!


I would say the worst part of running a shedule that doesnt add up to a 24 hr day is that your on period would be floating so every other day the on period would be while electricity is most expensive.
Where i live the cost is almost double from 7am-6pm as it is from 6pm til 7am.

I will probably not touch the timer just to let this experiment run its course.

I dont mind people commenting or talking in this thread as long as it stays civil, im no fan of negative drama


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I would say the worst part of running a shedule that doesnt add up to a 24 hr day is that your on period would be floating so every other day the on period would be while electricity is most expensive.
> Where i live the cost is almost double from 7am-6pm as it is from 6pm til 7am.
> 
> I will probably not touch the timer just to let this experiment run its course.
> ...


That's a good point. Kwh cost is certainly much higher during normal people hours.


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## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> That's a good point. Kwh cost is certainly much higher during normal people hours.


Not here, strangely. I expected to be able to find differences in rates based on time of day but they won't charge private customers like that- here being Colorado.

They DO have a demand rate, which encourages consistent energy consumption; you're charged your peak usage over the course of a month's billing cycle, but a lower base rate. As soon as I'm on my flip schedule again, I'm on this.


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## WattSaver (Apr 18, 2015)

Just read through this whole thread. And thank you for running the experiment. I've played around with the flip time a bunch. I now go 11.5/12.5 at flip which trips flowering quicker than 12/12 especially the sativa dom strains. I've also gone 10/14 for a whole grow and couldn't really see any discernible difference, but my brain keeps going back to more light = more growth. And I think dropping an hr of light during the flower helps the maturing process. I'll be watching to see how it turns out. I have hope in the process, but still really skeptical. But I'll wait and see.


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## torontoke (Apr 19, 2015)




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## torontoke (Apr 19, 2015)

Starting to finally get a lil sugar coating on everything now.
Still not filling out as much as id like but theres still alot of time so hopefully they fatten up


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## vitamin_green_inc (Apr 20, 2015)

Interesting experiment. If the yield is less but flower time is cut down-it might equal out.

I just want to say that a recently read a "Anarchy," book, that would be considered a no-no by today's governemt. Anyway, the book was mostly about survival in a post-apolytic world. MJ and cannabis growing was in the drug section. Pretty interesting read, and it's from the 80s lol. 
Anyway, this passage was relevant to this test becuase it mention seeds getting flushed into the New York City Sewer systems. Apparently weed, grows so much down there that they have to go in and cut it or else it will block certain tunnels,pipes, drainage etc. 
the author says the plants are nearly white in color due to their lack of sunlight but they live full cycles down there. This was back in the 80s...I can't imagine how many MJ plants there are now!


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## ttystikk (Apr 20, 2015)

vitamin_green_inc said:


> Interesting experiment. If the yield is less but flower time is cut down-it might equal out.
> 
> I just want to say that a recently read a "Anarchy," book, that would be considered a no-no by today's governemt. Anyway, the book was mostly about survival in a post-apolytic world. MJ and cannabis growing was in the drug section. Pretty interesting read, and it's from the 80s lol.
> Anyway, this passage was relevant to this test becuase it mention seeds getting flushed into the New York City Sewer systems. Apparently weed, grows so much down there that they have to go in and cut it or else it will block certain tunnels,pipes, drainage etc.
> the author says the plants are nearly white in color due to their lack of sunlight but they live full cycles down there. This was back in the 80s...I can't imagine how many MJ plants there are now!


I find this a bit hard to believe, it sounds like urban mythology. I'd like to see some corroborating evidence supporting this story.


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## vitamin_green_inc (Apr 20, 2015)

Lol yeah it does sound cool though huh. I can't find anything but Urban Legends so who knows


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## Amos Otis (Apr 20, 2015)

Very late to the party here - thanks for the heads up tt. 

I'm somewhat burnt out from most things RIU, but catching up, this is a very interesting read. Props to you for the efforts, and for thinking outside your own stash jars.

Which strain was the 2nd male? So sorry that the ss/ pc beans haven't given you a girl.


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## torontoke (Apr 20, 2015)

It was a ss had tucked away in the back of my cab that i forgot to get rid of that turned male.
Its too bad to cus those ss plants were nice. 

Thinking i might look into breeding one of these days 
Maybe that will be my next experiment.

Thanks again everyone for the kind words, it makes it worthwhile feeling like im actually doing something positive and not just wasting my time.


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## Benelli (Apr 20, 2015)

First off...HAPPY 420! 

I read that article as well and it was tough to fathom. So I was pretty jacked up to see this thread. Just read through it all. Keep it up and subbed!


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## torontoke (Apr 20, 2015)

Benelli said:


> First off...HAPPY 420!
> 
> I read that article as well and it was tough to fathom. So I was pretty jacked up to see this thread. Just read through it all. Keep it up and subbed!


Thanks!
Happy 420 to everyone 
Glad to have another person interested.


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## makka (Apr 20, 2015)

Still watching good work looking good


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## NewtoMJ (Apr 21, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Thanks!
> Happy 420 to everyone
> Glad to have another person interested.


I read Joe P' s article also, it got me thinking a lot of people say dutch growers use less light in flower, what if less than 12 on is the magic formula to getting the breeder times that most of us find a little ambitious?


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## torontoke (Apr 21, 2015)

Very possible time will tell.


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## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Very possible time will tell.
> View attachment 3401216


How far along now?

I've been thinking about this from a systems point of view; what if eight hours of light, for example, produced well? This could mean that on a given circuit one could run THREE growrooms, rather than the current two on a 'flip' schedule.

This has huge energy and infrastructure cost saving implications.


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## torontoke (Apr 21, 2015)

Thats a good point too.
Theres a million positives to using 25-50% less energy. The possiblities are a game changer for everyone regardless of their system or set up.
Thats what excited me about the idea.

My longterm goal has always been get out of the city and run a cozy lil place off the grid. But the cost of enough batteries to run a decent sized room were crazy like 15k but now perhaps 7-8k is more than enough batteries 

Id call these 2-3 weeks in havent counted or looked but they seem to be developing ok. 
Not the biggest yet but i wasnt expecting monsters anyway. The pots are small and theres only a 400 watter on em for 6 hours.


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## fishdeth (Apr 22, 2015)

Very interesting!
SUBBED!


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## bryleetch (Apr 22, 2015)

Just tossed a male under this light period... this technique is already catching on!


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## torontoke (Apr 22, 2015)

Looks like the week or so that i couldnt take care of these ladies and remove the male plant quick enough may have caused these bitches to get knocked up.
Appears to be a handfull of seeds on each plant.
Not sure yet 100% but perhaps i may have accidentally created my next batch of seeds.
Not sure if they will be worth using or not.
Chemdog x solo stash, phantom cookies
Apollo13, snow lotus x ss, phantom cookies
Chuckysbride,lemon skunk x ss phantom cookies

I thought the males didnt pollinate so early into flower guess i learned the hard way


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## torontoke (Apr 22, 2015)

Anyone know if those seeds would even be usable? The ss pc male was a beauty and i know i love these females. They are what im currently smoking now from my buddies room.


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## Joedank (Apr 22, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Anyone know if those seeds would even be usable? The ss pc male was a beauty and i know i love these females. They are what im currently smoking now from my buddies room.


hell yea they are "usable" DANK i bet . accidental crosses are what this shit is built on.. chemdog and sour d were accidents too..


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## Mr.Goodtimes (Apr 22, 2015)

Id think they'd be pretty good. Only one way to find out


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## torontoke (Apr 22, 2015)

Well i was fucking bummed out that the solo stash and phantom cookies that i germinated all turned out male but perhaps this accidental pregnancy could be a good thing. 
I will definately be popping a bunch for experiments sake lol


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## GrowUrOwnDank (Apr 22, 2015)

I personally was rooting for the 6 hours to work without hurting the yield. Hey, not only for saving money, but also because it's the green thing to do. 

At the end of the day, as much as I wanted it to work, let's face it, if it did work a lot of people would probably already have been doing it. 

Nevertheless, a bit disappointed but, thanks for taking the hit and sharing first hand. After all you never know until you try.


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## torontoke (Apr 22, 2015)

GrowUrOwnDank said:


> I personally was rooting for the 6 hours to work without hurting the yield. Hey, not only for saving money, but also because it's the green thing to do.
> 
> At the end of the day, as much as I wanted it to work, let's face it, if it did work a lot of people would probably already have been doing it.
> 
> Nevertheless, a bit disappointed but, thanks for taking the hit and sharing first hand. After all you never know until you try.


Well im not willing to say the experiment has failed completely just yet.
Im not even half way through flowering. The fact that the plants actually went into flower less than a week after the switch is actually encouraging if anything.
I disagree about if this worked than more people would be doing it because most people generally scoff at anything new and say it wont work without trying.
Your free to draw your own conclusions this early if you like but i dont think the buds look like they are doing to badly. I wouldnt call them undersized for their age or anything so i will wait it out.
Thanks for watching this long tho i guess.


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## Amos Otis (Apr 22, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Looks like the week or so that i couldnt take care of these ladies and remove the male plant quick enough may have caused these bitches to get knocked up.
> Appears to be a handfull of seeds on each plant.
> Not sure yet 100% but perhaps i may have accidentally created my next batch of seeds.
> Not sure if they will be worth using or not.
> ...


It was a male solos stash that dusted the mom phantom cookies. A mesh w/ Bodhi's apollo 13 x snow lotus [ dad of goji] should be killer, and you'll have a strain unique to yourself, if things like that matter. Chuckys Bride mom was hit by some L S hermie dust, but the L S was very potent, and CB is delicious.


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## torontoke (Apr 22, 2015)

Amos Otis said:


> It was a male solos stash that dusted the mom phantom cookies. A mesh w/ Bodhi's apollo 13 x snow lotus [ dad of goji] should be killer, and you'll have a strain unique to yourself, if things like that matter. Chuckys Bride mom was hit by some L S hermie dust, but the L S was very potent, and CB is delicious.


Sounds exciting to me now.
I was bummed about these buds having seed but now im glad. Hopefully the offspring are awesome.
Guess i better think up some of my own names for these potential mixes lol


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## thenotsoesoteric (Apr 22, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Very possible time will tell.
> View attachment 3401216


100% a bean right there! Should have a few seeds from this round for sure.


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## ULEN (Apr 22, 2015)

Any chance the lighting schedule caused the seeding?


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## torontoke (Apr 22, 2015)

No there was a male plant in the back corner my gf didnt know to remove.
By the time i finally got to it there were 1/8" balls all over it.


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## USbeginnerguy (Apr 23, 2015)

this almost brings tears to my eyes lol i really wanted to to see how it all turned out but hey atleast you got some positive out of her. Another seed another day i guess. Im hoping you run this again for sure. Good luck dude


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## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2015)

It's no secret that many of today's best strains don't do well outdoors- for good reason; they were need and selected for desirable traits under indoor lighting for many generations.

Thus makes me wonder if a focused program of breeding for six hour light might create strains that make the most of it?


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2015)

USbeginnerguy said:


> this almost brings tears to my eyes lol i really wanted to to see how it all turned out but hey atleast you got some positive out of her. Another seed another day i guess. Im hoping you run this again for sure. Good luck dude


My life has been pretty upside down the last few years with waning health and the inability to work, ive learned to see the positives in everything.
I cant afford to buy seeds so this actually works out to my benefit. Now and for future projects.
Got to always see the silver lining man.

I Take disappointment with a smirk


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> It's no secret that many of today's best strains don't do well outdoors- for good reason; they were need and selected for desirable traits under indoor lighting for many generations.
> 
> Thus makes me wonder if a focused program of breeding for six hour light might create strains that make the most of it?


I shall find out soon.
Its super ironic that i was talking about maybe getting into breeding so i could supply myself an friends with good cheap genetics and a lone male pollinates within the first two weeks of flower.

I hope your right and these seeds raised on 6 hr light will thrive in the same environment.


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## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2015)

torontoke said:


> My life has been pretty upside down the last few years with waning health and the inability to work, ive learned to see the positives in everything.
> I cant afford to buy seeds so this actually works out to my benefit. Now and for future projects.
> Got to always see the silver lining man.
> 
> I Take disappointment with a smirk


There is more to be learned in failure than success. I too will smirk at it from now on- and think of you.


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## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I shall find out soon.
> Its super ironic that i was talking about maybe getting into breeding so i could supply myself an friends with good cheap genetics and a lone male pollinates within the first two weeks of flower.
> 
> I hope your right and these seeds raised on 6 hr light will thrive in the same environment.


It takes lots of iterations while selecting only the most vigorous to continue with.


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> There is more to be learned in failure than success. I too will smirk at it from now on- and think of you.


 Lol glad i could be of any help motivational or not.


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## Amos Otis (Apr 23, 2015)

torontoke said:


> My life has been pretty upside down the last few years with waning health and the inability to work, ive learned to see the positives in everything.
> I cant afford to buy seeds so this actually works out to my benefit. Now and for future projects.
> Got to always see the silver lining man.
> 
> I Take disappointment with a smirk


I have a strong suspicion that Ganja Bean Santa will be descending on your habitat soon.


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2015)

Ganja santa is welcome to visit my habitat anytime lol


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## DrunkenRampage (Apr 23, 2015)

vitamin_green_inc said:


> Interesting experiment. If the yield is less but flower time is cut down-it might equal out.
> 
> I just want to say that a recently read a "Anarchy," book, that would be considered a no-no by today's governemt. Anyway, the book was mostly about survival in a post-apolytic world. MJ and cannabis growing was in the drug section. Pretty interesting read, and it's from the 80s lol.
> Anyway, this passage was relevant to this test becuase it mention seeds getting flushed into the New York City Sewer systems. Apparently weed, grows so much down there that they have to go in and cut it or else it will block certain tunnels,pipes, drainage etc.
> the author says the plants are nearly white in color due to their lack of sunlight but they live full cycles down there. This was back in the 80s...I can't imagine how many MJ plants there are now!


that would be the anarchist cook book, which ive read cover to cover. he calls the weed white rhino or something like that. urban legend. ever see a pic of a crop of albino weed clogging a dark sewer drain?


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> It takes lots of iterations while selecting only the most vigorous to continue with.


Im nothing if not stubborn and patient.
I will eventually have a big enough room to be very selective. Hopefully one day soon i will get to become someones ganja santa myself and help out people in shitty situations like mine.
I love the idea of creating my own strains and helping others.
Mj has given me a new purpose in life and changed my outlook on humanity in general.


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## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Im nothing if not stubborn and patient.
> I will eventually have a big enough room to be very selective. Hopefully one day soon i will get to become someones ganja santa myself and help out people in shitty situations like mine.
> I love the idea of creating my own strains and helping others.
> Mj has given me a new purpose in life and changed my outlook on humanity in general.


We may have different approaches, but I feel the same way about life and weed as you do.


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## torontoke (Apr 24, 2015)

Wow am i ever gonna be a dad again lol
I give that male plant credit there are seeds everywhere. Sucks that i will end up with an ounce of the seediest bud ever but i think it will be worth it in the long run.


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## torontoke (Apr 24, 2015)

This one shows the stretching chemdog from ghs. It has grown 5-6" overnight.


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## torontoke (Apr 24, 2015)




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## torontoke (Apr 24, 2015)

I am going to count flowering time from a week after the lights were switched and flowering actually started so these are officially 4 weeks on sunday.


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## ttystikk (Apr 24, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I am going to count flowering time from a week after the lights were switched and flowering actually started so these are officially 4 weeks on sunday.


This seems strange to me, because one starts counting every other kind of run from the first day of flip. 

Doing this will just subtract a week from your count. I agree the buds may not mature as quickly- but don't you want to accurately quantify that?


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## torontoke (Apr 24, 2015)

Perhaps your right.
Ive heard of alot of people counting both ways but going from flip then sunday is 5 weeks and i will be done a week sooner.
I generally chop when ready anyway so looking at these today id say they look like they are going to go longer than the traditional 8-9 weeks of 12/12.

I guess we'll see


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## ttystikk (Apr 25, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Perhaps your right.
> Ive heard of alot of people counting both ways but going from flip then sunday is 5 weeks and i will be done a week sooner.
> I generally chop when ready anyway so looking at these today id say they look like they are going to go longer than the traditional 8-9 weeks of 12/12.
> 
> I guess we'll see


I'd expect them to take longer to finish. Quantifying that would be an important part of the experiment for me.


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## torontoke (Apr 25, 2015)

I would have expected them to take longer as well but according to the article they are supposed to finish sooner.


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## NewtoMJ (Apr 25, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I would have expected them to take longer as well but according to the article they are supposed to finish sooner.


Is it possible that the seeds are what's slowing the buds down some? Like the female knows she's was in the presence of a male because of the initial pollen, so budding slows somewhat to allow the greatest window of fertility?


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## torontoke (Apr 25, 2015)

Not from what ive ever seen or read about.
The article saying that running a 6hr light period and it speeding up the process was the part about the whole article i couldnt quite understand.
To say they would take the same amount of time would have surprised me but to say quicker....that i find hard to believe.

I was very doubtful of the whole thing to be honest.
But now being halfway through i am shocked that they actually flowered and not surprised that i think these will go at least 8-9 weeks.


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## torontoke (Apr 26, 2015)

Just read a bunch of posts by some of the people watching this thread on other threads. 
Putting this out there for you guys....up in the top right corner of the thread is an unwatch button.
Please feel free to use this and stick with the methods used by the "ancients."
I did this experiment to see if the article was full of shit or if this is a viable alternative not to be talked about and ridiculed in other threads. I was told from the beginning to keep the whole process to myself but thought it may benefit everyone so why not share it.
Im sorry that my medical situation kept me from removing the male plant in time and made this alot less sexy to all the experts but life is what it is.
Perhaps i shall stop posting to the thread and just grow these out long enough to collect the seeds and be done with all of this.

My desire to help the collective is waning fast.


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## Amos Otis (Apr 26, 2015)

torontoke said:


> J
> 
> My desire to help the collective is waning fast.


Props for the 'desire', at least. 

Perhaps it's the idea of a 'collective' that needs redefining. I've never seen a distinction between weed people and the general population regarding the % of good folks vs complete wastes of time and space.


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## ttystikk (Apr 26, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Just read a bunch of posts by some of the people watching this thread on other threads.
> Putting this out there for you guys....up in the top right corner of the thread is an unwatch button.
> Please feel free to use this and stick with the methods used by the "ancients."
> I did this experiment to see if the article was full of shit or if this is a viable alternative not to be talked about and ridiculed in other threads. I was told from the beginning to keep the whole process to myself but thought it may benefit everyone so why not share it.
> ...


People will run their mouth. Pay them no heed. I get this kind of simple assed 'feedback' all the time and I ignore it every time.

I think you're trying something different, and the way some people handle watching someone else do what they fear is to ridicule them.

If you were a conformist, you'd be wearing an uncomfortable suit and tie, going to the office in a BMW, showing off an expensive yet utterly useless watch and nursing your alcoholism while thinking of ways to cheat on your wife.

Clearly, you're a nonconformist, so they gotta take shots at you. It's much easier to do that than look at the pathetic mess they've made of their own lives.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 26, 2015)

Ive lived my entire life going by the philosophy that everyone are scumbags til they prove otherwise. However going through the worst couple years of my life ive tried to change my approach.
I generally looked at fellow "weed" folks as being likeminded and hippyish like me but this entire website has taught me that even the majority of people on here just want to argue and bitch just like everyone else.
I have all the time in the world for good people and the advice and opinions of good people but i have no room in my already dismal life for negative fuckers that get off putting others down regardless of what they believe.


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## Mr.Goodtimes (Apr 26, 2015)

Just use that ignore button.

People just use the Internet forum to vent because it is a faceless entity and their shit talk won't get them knocked in the face like real life. 

I'm still interested in this finishing out; don't worry about the internet trolls.


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## Amos Otis (Apr 26, 2015)

torontoke said:


> negative fuckers that get off putting others down regardless of what they believe.


Insecurity and failure does that to people. 



ttystikk said:


> they gotta take shots at you. It's much easier to do that than look at the pathetic mess they've made of their own lives.


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## Doobius1 (Apr 26, 2015)

Totally here for ya man. Fuck them!


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## ttystikk (Apr 26, 2015)

Besides- if I was gonna shit talk your project, I'd do it right here in your thread like a real man... while hiding right here behind my keyboard, LOL


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## torontoke (Apr 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Besides- if I was gonna shit talk your project, I'd do it right here in your thread like a real man... while hiding right here behind my keyboard, LOL


 That is what id hope everyone would do.
I didnt write the article or say it would work. I am just crazy enough to try it and see what happens.
I know the internet turns everyone into a tough guy or smarter than everyone else. I just laugh at the assumptions everyone makes about each other without even knowing who ur talking to on the other end lol

I appreciate all you guys giving positive feedback you guys are whats keeping this project going or i would just cut my loses now. 
I can barely walk with crutches yet i drag my broken ass in to keep these bitches alive just to see this through til the end.


----------



## ISK (Apr 26, 2015)

torontoke said:


> That is what id hope everyone would do.
> I didnt write the article or say it would work. I am just crazy enough to try it and see what happens.
> I know the internet turns everyone into a tough guy or smarter than everyone else. I just laugh at the assumptions everyone makes about each other without even knowing who ur talking to on the other end lol
> 
> ...


but it's the love of those bitches that motivates you to drag your broken ass to keep them alive, as painful as it may be, it's good to have a reason to move around

best of wishes on a full recovery


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 26, 2015)

ISK said:


> but it's the love of those bitches that motivates you to drag your broken ass to keep them alive, as painful as it may be, it's good to have a reason to move around
> 
> best of wishes on a full recovery


Here, here! I second the motion!


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## NewtoMJ (Apr 26, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Just read a bunch of posts by some of the people watching this thread on other threads.
> Putting this out there for you guys....up in the top right corner of the thread is an unwatch button.
> Please feel free to use this and stick with the methods used by the "ancients."
> I did this experiment to see if the article was full of shit or if this is a viable alternative not to be talked about and ridiculed in other threads. I was told from the beginning to keep the whole process to myself but thought it may benefit everyone so why not share it.
> ...


For every person saying things in other threads, send them a picture of your penis, its obvious they want to suck on it so much.

In other news, how are the seeds looking? I am still in the wheel house that they will mature quicker than normal. I've been looking all over for information on wether pollen causes a female to delay flower maturation in hopes of collecting more over time. The University of Florida was doing studies on some plant(I was really medicated at the time and can't remember the plant) while my cousin was there, he said the initial results showed up to a 5 week delay in the progression of the flowering response. From what he told me, was there is a possibility of pollen having a orgasm delaying effect on plants, the orgasm being seed production. FWIW, I think it is still highly promising, but again, I was really stoned and only remember half the conversation.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 26, 2015)

Interesting.
I dont know though because from what ive ever seen in nature outside is that flowers plants trees anything the blooms all generally finish at the same time.
Bees and the wind are constantly re pollinating in theory everyday and they all seem to bloom and cycle equally yet the amount of pollination could be night and day?
I think while the plant is flowering and creating trics it is trying to make as many as possible with what water light and nutes its getting in the hopes of being pollinated.
I think environment is what slows flowering and maybe part genetics obv.

You may be right i will look into it now for curiousities sake.


----------



## NewtoMJ (Apr 26, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Interesting.
> I dont know though because from what ive ever seen in nature outside is that flowers plants trees anything the blooms all generally finish at the same time.
> Bees and the wind are constantly re pollinating in theory everyday and they all seem to bloom and cycle equally yet the amount of pollination could be night and day?
> I think while the plant is flowering and creating trics it is trying to make as many as possible with what water light and nutes its getting in the hopes of being pollinated.
> ...


That's true, but in nature there is a possibility of more pollen. Maybe they would flower faster if there wasn't so much pollen saturation. Cannabis has been so aggressively attacked, the pollen saturation is likely lower than say oak trees. So instead of being exposed to pollen initially, causing the plant to say "hey, I need to slow down and get as many pistils covered as I can" it just goes about its way flowering more rapidly, because it knows it can pop its own pollen given enough time.


----------



## Jasbrek (Apr 26, 2015)

Mostly just lurk on here, but I have been following this thread and I hope you don't call it quits due to some asshats. I am intrigued by this method and hope for the best! Good luck, and keep doing what you are doing!


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## USbeginnerguy (Apr 26, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Just read a bunch of posts by some of the people watching this thread on other threads.
> Putting this out there for you guys....up in the top right corner of the thread is an unwatch button.
> Please feel free to use this and stick with the methods used by the "ancients."
> I did this experiment to see if the article was full of shit or if this is a viable alternative not to be talked about and ridiculed in other threads. I was told from the beginning to keep the whole process to myself but thought it may benefit everyone so why not share it.
> ...



Forget the haters people like them never invent or discover anything because their scared. Keep up the positive attitude your doing the right thing no doubt it.


----------



## Amos Otis (Apr 26, 2015)

NewtoMJ said:


> For every person saying things in other threads, send them a picture of your penis.....
> 
> .


That's one option.....but perhaps it's best to do nothing, and consider it lesson learned.


----------



## NewtoMJ (Apr 26, 2015)

Amos Otis said:


> That's one option.....but perhaps it's best to do nothing, and consider it lesson learned.


Everyone is doing it! Lol.


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## torontoke (Apr 27, 2015)

Wont catch this guy doing it lol.

So tonight i managed to exchange the exhaust fan to a slightly larger one. Hopefully that will bring the temp down a lil bit. The cabinet is sitting at 82 degrees at its hottest and goes down to 74 with light out.
I also lowered and adjusted the batwing 4" hoping to get a lil more light on these buds.

Also moved a few plants around to even out the canopy a lil bit.
Took a few cuttings off the lower growth. Pretty small for clones but they havent started to flower yet so we'll see


----------



## makka (Apr 29, 2015)

Glad this is working keep checking in lol
So how far along are u now torontoke? Since flip.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Apr 29, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Wont catch this guy doing it lol.
> 
> So tonight i managed to exchange the exhaust fan to a slightly larger one. Hopefully that will bring the temp down a lil bit. The cabinet is sitting at 82 degrees at its hottest and goes down to 74 with light out.
> I also lowered and adjusted the batwing 4" hoping to get a lil more light on these buds.
> ...


Any chance of some more pictures soon?


----------



## torontoke (Apr 29, 2015)

Will be 6 weeks on sunday.
I will take more pics later when the lights come on but not much has changed.
They are drinking a ton of water but not changing or growing imo


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## NewtoMJ (Apr 29, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Will be 6 weeks on sunday.
> I will take more pics later when the lights come on but not much has changed.
> They are drinking a ton of water but not changing or growing imo


How are those seeds looking? They getting nice and fat?


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## torontoke (Apr 29, 2015)

NewtoMJ said:


> How are those seeds looking? They getting nice and fat?


Ya the seeds are the only thing fattening up at the moment 
Thats my last glimmer of hope out of this run.
Looks like i will have several dozen of each seed lol


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## makka (Apr 29, 2015)

Aww gutted for u I hope they fatten up how long is the strain flower time? I was hoping success with this tbh but very good try at any rate


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## torontoke (Apr 29, 2015)

They all finished up around 8-9 weeks in my buddies room. Im thinking i will let em up 9 and see if the seeds are salvageable by then. I dont really care about the bud anymore thats a wash.
I will be lucky to get an oz and a half total by the looks of it.


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## Doobius1 (Apr 29, 2015)

I am kinda getting the impression you are not impressed.


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## makka (Apr 29, 2015)

Worth a shot tho eh atleast u kno fo sur now experience gained imo


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## torontoke (Apr 29, 2015)

No im not impressed but im not furious either.
I went into this with the best intentions and hopes.
But im not upset because only one plant died and the rest did flower.
Everyone told me they wouldnt even live never mind flower.
Going forward i wouldnt recommend this light schedule to anyone expecting their usual yield but they did flower.
Perhaps further experimenting is required.
There has to be a happy medium somewhere between the 6 hours i tried and the usual 12.
Theres still two or three weeks left so it could turn around but its not looking good.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 29, 2015)




----------



## torontoke (Apr 29, 2015)




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## NewtoMJ (Apr 29, 2015)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3407670 View attachment 3407671


Hmmm, they do look a little on the light-weight side. I wonder what Joe P. did to get the results he says he got.


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## torontoke (May 4, 2015)

I have no idea what joe p did that i didnt but its officially 6 weeks since these have been under 6/18 and i havent noticed any growth or increase in size of the buds in a week or two.
I squeezed one of the seed pods to see if they were firming up and it sqwished in my fingers and shot out some white liquid.
Looked like a white head zit lol.
So hopefully in the next couple weeks the seeds at least should be ready.


----------



## torontoke (May 4, 2015)

I was just talking to a buddy that does alot of breedin and tinkering an he agrees these seeds should be straight up fire.
So im excited again.
Sometimes its tough to see the positive in lifes negatives but id rather have 100 killer seeds for future use. Certainly cheaper than buying them.

Now i just need to figure out some catchy names to call these frankenbeans lol

Chemdog x solo stash/phantom cookies

Apollo13/snowlotus x solostash/phantom cookies

Chuckys beide/lemonskunk x solostash/phantom cookies

Suggestions?


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I was just talking to a buddy that does alot of breedin and tinkering an he agrees these seeds should be straight up fire.
> So im excited again.
> Sometimes its tough to see the positive in lifes negatives but id rather have 100 killer seeds for future use. Certainly cheaper than buying them.
> 
> ...


'The Dark Side'


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## NewtoMJ (May 4, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I was just talking to a buddy that does alot of breedin and tinkering an he agrees these seeds should be straight up fire.
> So im excited again.
> Sometimes its tough to see the positive in lifes negatives but id rather have 100 killer seeds for future use. Certainly cheaper than buying them.
> 
> ...


Chem x Solo = Light Saber
A13/SO X AS/PC = Worm Hole


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## torontoke (May 4, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> 'The Dark Side'


For which one lol


----------



## torontoke (May 4, 2015)

Chem x sspc i was thinking
Dawgssbizkits or scoobsnaks


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## NewtoMJ (May 4, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Chem x sspc i was thinking
> Dawgssbizkits or scoobsnaks


Nah, you need a name that's going to terrify average smokers. Two years ago when I first tried pot, I would never have smoked "Worm Hole" or "Light Saber"


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## ttystikk (May 4, 2015)

torontoke said:


> For which one lol


I was just making a joke about how they were produced...


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## torontoke (May 4, 2015)

Lol i get it now 
Ya maybe i will wait and see if they are decent enough to bother naming.
I was just too excited for my own good there for a second.


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## ttystikk (May 4, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Lol i get it now
> Ya maybe i will wait and see if they are decent enough to bother naming.
> I was just too excited for my own good there for a second.


It's good for you.


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## torontoke (May 4, 2015)

Whats good for me being excited lol


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## silusbotwin (May 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Whats good for me being excited lol


Excitement = motivation and sometimes determination


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

Im full of both already lol
And im stoked to see what these seeds bring me.
The lil baby buds under 6hrs are starting to get coated in frost now so i know what lil bud i do get will be sticky icky and the seeds should be even better.


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Im full of both already lol
> And im stoked to see what these seeds bring me.
> The lil baby buds under 6hrs are starting to get coated in frost now so i know what lil bud i do get will be sticky icky and the seeds should be even better.


Anticipation!

I still can't help but wonder how this might work on a recycle timer; six hours on, twelve off, six on, twelve off. It wouldn't follow a twenty four hour day cycle, but that's part of the beauty of the idea; you're cramming the whole blooming cycle into three quarters of the time.

It is different from the experiment you're running, but it has its possibilities as well.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 6, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Anticipation!
> 
> I still can't help but wonder how this might work on a recycle timer; six hours on, twelve off, six on, twelve off. It wouldn't follow a twenty four hour day cycle, but that's part of the beauty of the idea; you're cramming the whole blooming cycle into three quarters of the time.
> 
> It is different from the experiment you're running, but it has its possibilities as well.


I was pondering this very thing today as well. @torontoke ...not to ask you to be the guinea pig but would you consider trying this next?


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

Ok so i spent the day reading articles about breeding and the entire process.
Apparently the buds do put all their energy into making the seeds viable. So that may be why the buds arent growing or filling out

Also learnt that these seeds should be considered f1's and that makes me feel alot better about the chances of getting some nice moms.

Not sure if these will need to go the full 8-9 weeks or if they can be chopped sooner since im only after the seeds now really?
Anyone got any insight into this stuff?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 6, 2015)

I think it's reasonable to question which has had a more negative effect...the mere 6 hours of light or the 18 hours of darkness. I'm kind of inclined to think that the 18 hours of darkness could be.


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

I was already planning what the next experiment would be lol


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Ok so i spent the day reading articles about breeding and the entire process.
> Apparently the buda do put all their energy into making the seeds viable. So that may be why the buds arent growing or filling out
> 
> Also learnt that these seeds should be considered f1's and that makes me feel alot better about the chances of getting some nice moms.
> ...


I've only done a seed crop once and they seemed to take about the normal time. The buds ended up looking almost as good as normal but just full of seeds.


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

Whenever my buddy or i ever had seeded bud we never even trimmed it. We would just throw it in the bho pile and blast it.
We dod have a tahoe og get pollinated by a jesus og and we ran those seeds for a yr before giving up on it. Lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I was already planning what the next experiment would be lol


I'm all ears, spill it!


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

My buddy has given me the keys to his room and basically said here i quit.
So i have some options....
Un denounced to me he has taken my advice and a small section of the room is currently on 6/18 and he said the preflowers are huge and it looks better than normal so until i get over and see them myself im not sure yet.
However he and i have been talking for a long time about making an electrical system for his room.
5-6 large batteries and a few car alternators etc. 
we want to make a self sufficient system. 
In the meantime i will give my cabinet some thought.
I was leaning toward just doing 1 killer multiheaded scrog.
Who knows...
Im open to suggestions


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> My buddy has given me the keys to his room and basically said here i quit.
> So i have some options....
> Un denounced to me he has taken my advice and a small section of the room is currently on 6/18 and he said the preflowers are huge and it looks better than normal so until i get over and see them myself im not sure yet.
> However he and i have been talking for a long time about making an electrical system for his room.
> ...


Finish what he started...

I can't help you with the off grid stuff. Greenhouse?


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

No its a 10x6 room 4 1000w hps.
The other side is 1 1000 and a 600watter thats on 6/18 now. I will finish this run for him. And not sure about the big area. If we can take it off the grid thats a bonus. 
Ive always wanted to try building a coliseum out of square fence posts. Who knows man i will find a way to make it unusual lol i love the experimenting and finding out things through my own trial and error.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> No its a 10x6 room 4 1000w hps.
> The other side is 1 1000 and a 600watter thats on 6/18 now. I will finish this run for him. And not sure about the big area. If we can take it off the grid thats a bonus.
> Ive always wanted to try building a coliseum out of square fence posts. Who knows man i will find a way to make it unusual lol i love the experimenting and finding out things through my own trial and error.


I'm about to reveal the 1st of 2 octagon designs. You might find the 1st one interesting. I can head down and grab a few pictures if you'd like.


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

Absolutely man.
I have wanted to build one forever. I was gonna use the tables and just go numbers crazy but its too easy i think. Besides those custom jobs are too cool


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Absolutely man.
> I have wanted to build one forever. I was gonna use the tables and just go numbers crazy but its too easy i think. Besides those custom jobs are too cool


Well...I don't know if you've followed any of my journals or not but I'm trying extreme SOG 12/12 from seed techniques hoping to find a reproducible method for big yields when measured by grams per killowatt hour. At any rate, it recently occurred to me that if I stop thinking linearly that maybe some fresh ideas might pop into my head.

So here is prototype #1 still in development but should be ready in about a week...certainly far enough along that the idea is clear.
The plants I do have started were doing great but have suffered some from getting too much water. This is my 1st ever attempt at anything this crazy/strange so I gotta work out the kinks still.

         

It's far from polished but here are the specs:
Octagon is 60" in diameter measured from the inside.
I'm currently placing 3 vertical tubes on each of the 7 sides (8th side is a door).
4 Tubes is definitely a possibility but for now I'm testing with 3.

Each tube has 6 sites. Tubes are filled with hydroton. Adjustable sprinkler emitters at the top of each tube.
Bottom of the tubes are capped and have a 1/2" drain pipe running into 4" PVC that wraps around the entire outside of the octagon.
Plants are in 1.5" rockwool cubes. I'm testing 3 different ideas regarding the 45 degree elbows in an attempt to find the best option to maintain moisture but eliminate over watering....long story here and I'll spare you the details.

Two 1/2" pieces of PVC pipe form the ceiling and the carbon filter fan combo could not be easier. They are just taped together and sitting on 2 studs and exhaust out the top.

Whole thing is computer controlled with a tablet running software I wrote. Nothing fancy but it serves as the timer for the light as well as the timer for the water pump. Currently still experimenting but have it set to run for 2 minutes every hour. The software is configuration driven so I can change the settings without touching code.


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

Thats awesome man.
I was following along with one of your threads.
Im liking the idea dont know if i can afford to go that big right away but we shall see.
I will be subbed up to your thread to follow along.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (May 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Thats awesome man.
> I was following along with one of your threads.
> Im liking the idea dont know if i can afford to go that big right away but we shall see.
> I will be subbed up to your thread to follow along.


Thanks bro...wish me luck, I'll probably need it. Got a few more weeks before Chapter 2 concludes and then the 2 octagons will be my chapter 3.


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## Mr.Goodtimes (May 6, 2015)

Unwatched so I could watch again 

Looks like fun!!!!


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

Mr.Goodtimes said:


> Unwatched so I could watch again
> 
> Looks like fun!!!!


In that case welcome back???


----------



## torontoke (May 6, 2015)




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## ttystikk (May 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3412912


How long does it have left?


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## torontoke (May 6, 2015)

2-3 weeks at least.
Its been officially 6 weeks


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## torontoke (May 7, 2015)

Ok so i went to my buddies today. Those 6 plants he threw under 6/18 are simply mouth watering.
They are in smallish containers but the buds are dense as fuk.
They have been under the light schedule for approx 4 weeks and they are the tightest most solid buds ive ever seen.
Perhaps this experiment may have a silver lining.

I couldnt take pics cus the lights were off and he is a stickler for flash and lights in his dark room but i will try to get back over there during lights on for some pics.

Now im totally impressed and my hope in the project is definitely renewed.


----------



## torontoke (May 7, 2015)

Im serious
I didnt believe they were on 6/18. I went and checked his timer to make sure he wasnt fuckin with me.


----------



## Jasbrek (May 7, 2015)

What do you think would happen if you went from 18/6 to 6/12? Got a crop about to go into flower next Friday, should we try it? Would like a decent crop, but I am new to this so what the hell, why not?


----------



## ttystikk (May 7, 2015)

Jasbrek said:


> What do you think would happen if you went from 18/6 to 6/12? Got a crop about to go into flower next Friday, should we try it? Would like a decent crop, but I am new to this so what the hell, why not?


If you're new to growing, my suggestion is to get the basics down first. Then you'll have some idea of whether 'different' is actually 'better'.


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## Jasbrek (May 7, 2015)

Ok, I will stick to 12/12. Was willing to sacrifice in the name of science. Lol.


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## torontoke (May 7, 2015)

Well i must disagree.
I will never ever run a room on 12/12 ever again.
Now i understand being skeptical of 6/18 but then just go to 10/14.
Your still saving two hours per day x 60 plus days.

I cant wait til i get some pics from my buddies room none of you guys will want to ever do 12/12 either.


----------



## torontoke (May 8, 2015)

So i talked to another one of my buddies thats a designated grower and apparently two weeks ago my other buddy called him raving about how he switched to 6/18 and had preflowers formed in 4 days. So that guy decided to give it a chance and switched a room to 6/18 too and is blown away by what he sees.
The second guy said his buds are so tight you cant even squeeze them and they are only 3 weeks in.

Im so glad i decided to try this and so far thats three people that wont be running 12/12 ever again.
We are shutting down the hydro companies slowly but surely.

Im going to do my best to get some pics of both these other rooms for u guys.


----------



## Sunny Organics (May 8, 2015)

bro in order for this theory to work you must had done the following imo.
1) you took 2 clones from the same exact pheno from each strain. I say this because 1 strain can have 2 different plants with different characteristics, im sure you would know that with a 15 year experience of growing.
2) did a side by side comparison - one under 12/12 and the other on 6/18. this is also very important, because obviously you want to see if its better to run 6/18 or not... yes it could work, but is it worth it? where there any dramatic changes in the 6/18 plant compared to the 12/12 plant?
3) have them run on the same nutrient feeding and EXACT growing environments, this includes humidity and temperature. 

im really intrested in your results, if you didnt do the things i mentioned above i could be a little skeptical. i mean yeah it can work, but is it worth it in the long run? you want the best quality medicine, will this affect your quality and yeild? sorry but so many pages and so much reading haha, just my 2 cents.


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2015)

Sunny Organics said:


> bro in order for this theory to work you must had done the following imo.
> 1) you took 2 clones from the same exact pheno from each strain. I say this because 1 strain can have 2 different plants with different characteristics, im sure you would know that with a 15 year experience of growing.
> 2) did a side by side comparison - one under 12/12 and the other on 6/18. this is also very important, because obviously you want to see if its better to run 6/18 or not... yes it could work, but is it worth it? where there any dramatic changes in the 6/18 plant compared to the 12/12 plant?
> 3) have them run on the same nutrient feeding and EXACT growing environments, this includes humidity and temperature.
> ...


If this was a university or lab experiment you are 100% right.
If i wanted a true follow it to the tee comparision i would have done all that u mention and more.
However i am just a guy with more time on my hands and ideas, hopes and dreams.
Through the many pages as u put it a few other people have said the Same thing as you and i appreciate your opinion.
This idea came from a magazine article and i was curious if 6 hrs was enough to flower a plant.
It is and it does.
My plants growth seemed to slow down while they were making seeds.
Other friends that have switched to this shedule have seen massive improvements.

What started as a test to kill some curiousity i had has changed my mind on needing 12/12 to flower traditionally. Everyone is entitled to do things however they like and continue doing whats best for them or working.


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2015)

Thanks to a visit from ganja santa a few nights ago.
I have put a bunch of seeds in paper towel to germ for round 2.

I am going to run some

Heriberry
Jillybean
Chemdog
Apollo13xsnowlotus

Not sure on how many i am going to keep in my cab or what light shedule i will use. I have at least a month to decide.

After talking with a friend i will definately be trying the 6/18 shedule in his room using dwc this time and we are going to start building a coliseum/rail type system.


----------



## ttystikk (May 9, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Thanks to a visit from ganja santa a few nights ago.
> I have put a bunch of seeds in paper towel to germ for round 2.
> 
> I am going to run some
> ...


I think the poster above is correct in his suggestion to do a more formal side by side with clones in order to better validate your new discovery. This will help quantify and qualify the differences in yield between the two schedules.

I've run Jillybean and I still do! She's tasty and a lil bushy, not the fastest growing plant but worth it.

I'm very interested in seeing your coliseum grow and the rail lighting. Will the lighting be moving?


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2015)

No offense to anyone but i dont think i need to do a side by side comparison for anything.
I dont really need to be scientifically justified in saying that i have seen enough to be converted.
If i wanted to know exactly gram for gram etc then yes i would do a side by side but im not worried about how much difference there is. If this was strictly about trying to suck the maximum amount of bud out of this cabinet i would just run 6 critical mass or some other big yielding plant on 12/12. 
If someone wants to run a side by side in their room i would gladly watch along with the rest of the guys but my lil 36" x 24" x 50" cabinet isnt big enough for the type of experiment your talking about.

Only people ive found that are super focused on yields and numbers are noobs and dealers.
Im neither. I only want to keep myself occupied while doing all my r and d.


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I've run Jillybean and I still do! She's tasty and a lil bushy, not the fastest growing plant but worth it.
> 
> I'm very interested in seeing your coliseum grow and the rail lighting. Will the lighting be moving?


I was thinking about a tiered square fence post rail system well actually two that are lit by one light moving from one to the other. Perhaps three, we will see how time and money is.
I will put up a drawing of the idea later. I would appreciate some opinions on it. Especially since hot diggity has built a few.


----------



## Hot Diggity Sog (May 9, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I was thinking about a tiered square fence post rail system well actually two that are lit by one light moving from one to the other. Perhaps three, we will see how time and money is.
> I will put up a drawing of the idea later. I would appreciate some opinions on it. Especially since hot diggity has built a few.


I'm having a few issues with mine that you should probably be aware of. Give me another week or so and I'll report my findings.


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## ukmrgreen (May 9, 2015)

i always reduce from 12/12 to 8/16 the last 2 weeks to harvest then last 24 hours in total darkness


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2015)

ukmrgreen said:


> i always reduce from 12/12 to 8/16 the last 2 weeks to harvest then last 24 hours in total darkness


Well you can reduce it alot sooner than the last two weeks.
To each their own tho.


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2015)

Heres some pics from my buddies room.
Not the best pics he has shaky hands but these are in small 2gallon pots and have been under 6/18 for 4 weeks... 1000w hps


----------



## Sunny Organics (May 9, 2015)

torontoke said:


> No offense to anyone but i dont think i need to do a side by side comparison for anything.
> I dont really need to be scientifically justified in saying that i have seen enough to be converted.
> If i wanted to know exactly gram for gram etc then yes i would do a side by side but im not worried about how much difference there is. If this was strictly about trying to suck the maximum amount of bud out of this cabinet i would just run 6 critical mass or some other big yielding plant on 12/12.
> If someone wants to run a side by side in their room i would gladly watch along with the rest of the guys but my lil 36" x 24" x 50" cabinet isnt big enough for the type of experiment your talking about.
> ...


not trying to bring you down or anything bro, i really wanted to see the results from both sides 12/12 and 6/18. this is just a trial run of a 6/18 harvest not really an experiment.


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2015)

Sunny Organics said:


> not trying to bring you down or anything bro, i really wanted to see the results from both sides 12/12 and 6/18. this is just a trial run of a 6/18 harvest not really an experiment.


Fair enough.
Its not a technical experiment.
I know what these same plants averaged under 12/12 and didnt have the room or cabinet to do both 
Sorry
I will be able to give exact numbers on all these strains 12/12 vs 6/18 based on the ones in my buddies room in 4 weeks.


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2015)

He ran the same strains 12/12 and is now 4 weeks in to 6/18 so that should be a more fair comparison and closer to the experiment term.
I will post those results here too.


----------



## Doobius1 (May 9, 2015)

Dont apologize man. Thx to this thread Ive cut my lights back by an hour. I will cut them back another hour in a week. I figure give it a shot for the summer, save some hydro. I was thinking about shutting down but will just cut back. Thanks again for posting this.


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2015)

Doobius1 said:


> Dont apologize man. Thx to this thread Ive cut my lights back by an hour. I will cut them back another hour in a week. I figure give it a shot for the summer, save some hydro. I was thinking about shutting down but will just cut back. Thanks again for posting this.


Glad it is helping bro
If even an hour a day your still ahead. Slowly but surely i think reduced flower times will become the norm.


----------



## torontoke (May 11, 2015)

So im officially 7 weeks since switching the lights.
The smell in my room is intense and im most likely going to chop em sooner than later.
Like i said before im mostly interested in harvesting the seeds and perhaps running a few for the next batch.


----------



## torontoke (May 12, 2015)




----------



## torontoke (May 13, 2015)

So not much growth or news to report. All the plants seem to be focused on making sugar. Everythings getting frosty now and all the hairs are browning up. 
I was talking to my buddy last night and he told me his plants were all falling over and bending branches so he had to use a crap load of bamboo stakes to hold everything up. He said even the lil 3-4" buds are so dense and thick they are bending good size branches.

Im super excited to chop these just so i can start over except this time i will veg a lil longer.


----------



## guardogz (May 13, 2015)

Hey Toronto thanks for the experiment. I ll hit week 8 on may 14-tomorrow. mine is not scientific either but i like what i see. Intrigued by the 6/12 schedule as well. Running dinachem and freedom haze w the haze plant performing slightly better. wont be going back to 12/12. Hope those seeds work out well for ya


----------



## torontoke (May 13, 2015)

guardogz said:


> Hey Toronto thanks for the experiment. I ll hit week 8 on may 14-tomorrow. mine is not scientific either but i like what i see. Intrigued by the 6/12 schedule as well. Running dinachem and freedom haze w the haze plant performing slightly better. wont be going back to 12/12. Hope those seeds work out well for ya


Thanks 
What schedule did u use?


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## guardogz (May 13, 2015)

6/18 in the tent, 6.5/17.5 outside the tent(but still indoors). taking the plants outside for a few hours of sun when its nice out, and defn before harvest. prob need a few adjustments to really dial it in...but we know this can work(for us)


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## torontoke (May 13, 2015)

guardogz said:


> 6/18 in the tent, 6.5/17.5 outside the tent(but still indoors). taking the plants outside for a few hours of sun when its nice out, and defn before harvest. prob need a few adjustments to really dial it in...but we know this can work(for us)


Right on man
Im sold on reduced flowering times.
Id love to see some pics of urs girls if they are almost done.


----------



## torontoke (May 13, 2015)

Well i went in to check the temperature and to check how things are going.
Got to staring at the seed pod on one of the girls and couldnt help myself i had to pluck one off and check how they looked and if they are mature looking.
I threw it straight into the wet paper towel. Lets see if it germs
Lol so heres solo stash/phantom cookie x chemdog.... #1 lol


----------



## guardogz (May 15, 2015)

Ok first try at some pics. First 3 are freedom haze, slightly different ages, last two are dinachem. Have nt tasted the haze yet.


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## torontoke (May 15, 2015)

Looks awesome man.
I hope it tastes as good as it looks.


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## torontoke (May 16, 2015)

I will be going and taking a bunch of pics of my buddies room tomorrow.
His are 5 1/2 weeks in.
Mine are 8 weeks tomorrow and the seeds have definately slowed them down.  When i grew these strains out the first time they all finished between 60-65 days this time they look like they could use two more weeks but im probably gonna chop em early pick the seeds out and blast em.
I have a bunch of seed choices now to choose from for the next run.


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## guardogz (May 17, 2015)

Thanks. Took awhile to get used to the buttery start to the dc. the haze is a bit young but just had to take a taste. rt now she s got a cucumber,lime, melon aroma. burn starts out like menthol then finishes w a citrus then melon aftertaste. i think those are all young flavors. good to taste at diff weeks imo. u gonna blast w butane? lookin fwd to the pics.


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## torontoke (May 17, 2015)

I will pick out all the beans and see whats left.
More than likely i will use butane on some of it or maybe i will do the alcohol evap method not sure yet.
I dont expect to get much of anything out of this run tbh


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## torontoke (May 17, 2015)

Those seeds i put to germ were duds.
Guess they arent ready or maybe i should have let em dry out.
Officially 8wks today and no where near looking ready. Not sure i want these bitches taking up my cab for much longer but seeing as how i dont have anything else ready to go in it yet i will wait it out awhile longer.


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## NewtoMJ (May 20, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Those seeds i put to germ were duds.
> Guess they arent ready or maybe i should have let em dry out.
> Officially 8wks today and no where near looking ready. Not sure i want these bitches taking up my cab for much longer but seeing as how i dont have anything else ready to go in it yet i will wait it out awhile longer.


Yea man, let them dry for 4 - 6 weeks. I've tried fresh seeds with a 0% germ, after drying I was 100%


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## MonsterScrogger (May 22, 2015)

I cant believe how small them buds are, how far away is your light? How old is your bulb? How old is your ballast?

Something isnt right there and i dont think its just getting 6hrs of light


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

MonsterScrogger said:


> I cant believe how small them buds are, how far away is your light? How old is your bulb? How old is your ballast?
> 
> Something isnt right there and i dont think its just getting 6hrs of light


The females got pollinated early and stopped growing.
It went from an experiment to measure the difference in yield from 12/12 to 6/18 to a seed yield for my next run.
And the bulb is brand new and the ballast is a yr old.
Plants are 12" away from the bulb.
They most certainly only get 6 hrs of light
But thanks for stopping by none the less


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## ttystikk (May 22, 2015)

torontoke said:


> The females got pollinated early and stopped growing.
> It went from an experiment to measure the difference in yield from 12/12 to 6/18 to a seed yield for my next run.
> And the bulb is brand new and the ballast is a yr old.
> Plants are 12" away from the bulb.
> ...


An admirable response. Do you plan to do this experiment again? Will you use clones to eliminate the possibility of pollination ruining things again? If there was a way to help, I would. I think what you're doing has real merit.


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> An admirable response. Do you plan to do this experiment again? Will you use clones to eliminate the possibility of pollination ruining things again? If there was a way to help, I would. I think what you're doing has real merit.


Thats me man always trying to be admirable lol.
Tbh i dont much care for the negative comments but they are sometimes right.
I dont think anyone has to be a horticulturist to say the buds stopped growing once they were pollinated. The results speak for themselves.
I will be chopping these down in the next couple weeks and i have a bunch of seedlings to choose from. I just germinated a bunch of new strains that ganja santa delivered.
I will be vegging them out a little bit longer and than picking the best 4 to flower under 6/18.


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## MonsterScrogger (May 22, 2015)

I didnt mean you were giving them more than 6 hours i meant they are not small because they are only receiving 6 hours of light.

Being pollinated doesnt explain the size of them buds, id expect bigger buds under a 60w halogen


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

MonsterScrogger said:


> I didnt mean you were giving them more than 6 hours i meant they are not small because they are only receiving 6 hours of light.
> 
> Being pollinated doesnt explain the size of them buds id expect more from a 60w halogen


They are in smalll containers. And were not vegged for very long. I dont know what else to say.
I didnt expect this tiny space to produce huge anyway but i also dont really care. It was more to see if a magazine article was full of shit or not.
Again thanks for taking the time to comment.


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## MonsterScrogger (May 22, 2015)

torontoke said:


> They are in smalll containers. And were not vegged for very long. I dont know what else to say.
> I didnt expect this tiny space to produce huge anyway but i also dont really care. It was more to see if a magazine article was full of shit or not.
> Again thanks for taking the time to comment.


Just being honest, i dont understand how you can consider this a success on any level


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

MonsterScrogger said:


> Just being honest, i dont understand how you can consider this a success on any level


I dont.
I consider it about 200 dank ass seeds for the future. In fact i dont remember ever claiming it was a success. I said from the begining that it was going to be a crap yield.
I tried a different light schedule to see if it would work. It did the plants in my cabinet showed preflowers in under a week. Two friends of mine have switched their lights and have both said they will never run 12/12 ever again.
It is what it is man.


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## MonsterScrogger (May 22, 2015)

What made your 2 friends switch to 6/18? did you show them something you havent posted here??

Seriously i want to believe 6/18 is worth while but you havent posted a single thing to suggest that and yet you say youll never do 12/12 again your friends are switching too. Help me understand


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## ttystikk (May 22, 2015)

I've wondered the same. I've heard him allude to other's success with this technique but haven't seen anything more concrete. I'm not suggesting the evidence doesn't exist, I'm just curious to get the whole story.


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

Did either of you see the guys posts a few pages ago? Those plants were grown under 6/18.
My buddies switched when i told them mine werent all dead.
I really dont care what light schedule anyone else uses. I get the impression tho that when it comes to the argument of needing 12/12 most people are fixed in their ways.
I myself will never run 12/12 ever again. Doesnt mean necessarily i will do 6/18, might be 11/13 or 10/14 etc. 
the purpose of me even using this lil cabinet is experimenting and trying new things. Shame on me for sharing.
And i regret even posting this thread now.


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## ttystikk (May 22, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Did either of you see the guys posts a few pages ago? Those plants were grown under 6/18.
> My buddies switched when i told them mine werent all dead.
> I really dont care what light schedule anyone else uses. I get the impression tho that when it comes to the argument of needing 12/12 most people are fixed in their ways.
> I myself will never run 12/12 ever again. Doesnt mean necessarily i will do 6/18, might be 11/13 or 10/14 etc.
> ...


Nonono! Please don't take my comments as disbelief! If I missed some pics I'll go back and look for them. I'm very interested in this experiment and I'd love to see positive results.


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

This thread has been all over the place. Many people stopping by to put in there negative two cents. Then they fuk off n disappear now here i am again feeling like i have to defend my opinion to a new member and a guy that says any way he can help...but joins in.
I shouldnt regret posting this thread. Unlike most people who talk more than do. I put forth an effort to test a theory. Never called it anything more than an experiment.
Going based on what ive seen with my own two eyes going 6/18 in my buddies room the plants are yielding about 75% of what they did last time. 75% using half the energy is good math imo. 
I dont allude to anything i say what i think.


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## MonsterScrogger (May 22, 2015)

Pull yourself together, jesus christ


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## MonsterScrogger (May 22, 2015)

If your guy is pulling 75% with half the electricity why havent you posted anything in the thread you made called 6hr experiment?

Why are you getting all bent out of shape because people ask questions?

If this works everyone will switch its a no brainer, i just dont understand your attitude


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

Go back one page.
I posted pics of two plants from my buddies room. Both those plants are around 6 weeks in on 6/18.
Another poster on the site also put up pictures of his plants at 8 weeks under 6/18.
I have become perhaps a tad bit too sensitive when it comes to this thread because i constantly feel the need to defend an article and theory i didnt come up with.
I try to keep my personal stuff at bay and try to focus on positivity and optimism.
Trust me that my intentions with this experiment/thread was to test a theory and hopefully help people going forward.
Now health problems and a few other setbacks made this run a waste.
Live and learn. I will continue to do things that are unusual and tinker here and there and eventually one day i will have it figured out.


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## MonsterScrogger (May 22, 2015)

Good good, i hope you can post future grows using 6/18 and prove all the doubters wrong.

Ill certainly be the first to switch once im convinced its viable. Good luck


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

MonsterScrogger said:


> Good good, i hope you can post future grows using 6/18 and prove all the doubters wrong.
> 
> Ill certainly be the first to switch once im convinced its viable. Good luck


 I will take that as a challenge and i look forward to posting some pictures that are up to your standards.


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

I bought a jiffy pot greenhouse at wallyworld yesturday. Put a bunch of beans in em this morning.
Im thinking im gonna try putting them in a dwc tote this time to veg.
C99, wappa, goji, sspc, jillybean and a few jesus og.


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## NewtoMJ (May 22, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I will take that as a challenge and i look forward to posting some pictures that are up to your standards.


Don't let this monsterscrogger bother you, just another dude thinks hes some cannabis stud. I don't think the experiment failed. The plants did exactly what nature intended: produce seeds, really good looking seeds at that, I figured the bud size would diminish with such early pollination. Fuck the haters.


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

Im usually pretty good about handling critisism and keep my cool but its been one of those weeks
U know.


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## ttystikk (May 22, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Im usually pretty good about handling critisism and keep my cool but its been one of those weeks
> U know.


I hear ya man- don't let them get you down.


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## King Arthur (May 22, 2015)

You didn't have to share with any of us so thank you for that. Some people only appreciate a nice scolding and an argument.


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## torontoke (May 22, 2015)

The only reason i come on this website is to learn and share my experiences both positive and negative. 
Over the last 10plus years ive met alot of old school guys that use what they call foolproof methods and ive had my hands in on many a cash crop. But in all seriousness its not about that to me anymore.
Everyone claims to want quality over quantity anyway but yet everyones first comment is about the lower yield lol its maddening. 

I share because if it helps someone or shines a light onto a new idea it makes the group better not just me.


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## MonsterScrogger (May 23, 2015)

NewtoMJ said:


> Don't let this monsterscrogger bother you, just another dude thinks hes some cannabis stud. I don't think the experiment failed. The plants did exactly what nature intended: produce seeds, really good looking seeds at that, I figured the bud size would diminish with such early pollination. Fuck the haters.


Why am i a hater? because i ask a question as to what made him decide hell never do 12/12 again? 

Sorry i must be a truly awful person for asking such a vile question.


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## Doobius1 (May 23, 2015)

Dont be so hard on yourself. You are not an awful person....just a another no life boring sock puppet account trying to get attention...yawn

Anyone following this thread has learned something and thats why people do experiments. Good job TO!


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## MonsterScrogger (May 23, 2015)

Please share what you have learned, i for one would be most interested.

I have read the whole thread and learned nothing, except some people are way to sensitive


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## smoke and coke (May 23, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Everyone claims to want quality over quantity anyway but yet everyones first comment is about the lower yield lol its maddening.


not me. i want both.


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## skunkd0c (May 23, 2015)

Looks remarkably like the allbud pheno of super lemon haze .. hardmode4life


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## torontoke (May 23, 2015)

smoke and coke said:


> not me. i want both.


 That is the ideal scenario.
With some more fine tuning who knows whats possible. I ran an entire flower cycle of 6/18 and yes my plants seemed to stop growing the second they were pollinated. However other peoole who have since tried the 6/18 are getting better results.
What i learned so far is contrary to popular belief going into this everyone told me that the plants would wilt up and die. They didnt die obviously and in fact preflowering seemed to happen sooner than usual.
In my little cabinet my experiment hit a serious hurdle and stunted but there is reason to experiment further with a new run.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and i didnt beg anyone to read This thread or believe anything.
If you still think 12/12 is the only way to flower a plant thats fine enjoy it.


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## torontoke (May 23, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> Looks remarkably like the allbud pheno of super lemon haze .. hardmode4life


What? The pic u posted didnt show up


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## skunkd0c (May 23, 2015)

torontoke said:


> That is the ideal scenario.
> With some more fine tuning who knows whats possible. I ran an entire flower cycle of 6/18 and yes my plants seemed to stop growing the second they were pollinated. However other peoole who have since tried the 6/18 are getting better results.
> What i learned so far is contrary to popular belief going into this everyone told me that the plants would wilt up and die. They didnt die obviously and in fact preflowering seemed to happen sooner than usual.
> In my little cabinet my experiment hit a serious hurdle and stunted but there is reason to experiment further with a new run.
> ...


its quite possible that on a 6 hour photoperiod your plant received less heat damage and survived the battering a little better than it would of done under 12/12
even so with just the most basic knowledge of photosynthesis surely it is obvious that a 6 hour photoperiod will result in less photosynthesis occurring

if you were trying a 14 hour on 10 hour off photoperiod and claiming superior results at least you would have the laws of science on your side

peace


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## torontoke (May 23, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> its quite possible that on a 6 hour photoperiod your plant received less heat damage and survived the battering a little better than it would of done under 12/12
> even so with just the most basic knowledge of photosynthesis surely it is obvious that a 6 hour photoperiod will result in less photosynthesis occurring
> 
> if you were trying a 14 hour on 10 hour off photoperiod and claiming superior results at least you would have the laws of science on your side
> ...


16 pages of thread and no where does anyone claim superior results so not sure where that came from.
6 hrs definitely meant less heat tho thats common sense and its obviously less energy on the light too since were pointing out all the obvious.
Your photosynthisis assumption im not so sure about. The article that this light cycle came from claims that a plant or fruitting tree actually does its synthesisizing during the dark period so if thats true than a longer dark period may be benefitial.
I didnt start this thread to argue or try to get people to join the "dark side." 
In your garden or growroom keep doing whatever it is you do and good luck to ya.


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## makka (May 23, 2015)

i hope to see another try it was a good try just had a few hiccups thats all more the reason to try again
i had and and still have high hopes of this working well if only with certain strains the positives are so many its worth trial and error to make it work
if u do decide to try again please start a thread so i can follow along all over again as i know there is more to come and to be learnt


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## torontoke (May 23, 2015)

I will be doing this whole thing over again as soon as the next set of girls are big enough.
Not sure i will start another thread or not. Im always on here anyway so i probably will but we shall see.
Just like the canadian patient section of this site it just seems that alot of people online joined this site to argue and flex their internet dicks. I never claimed to be the science guru or said i had it all figured out.


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## MonsterScrogger (May 23, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I will be doing this whole thing over again as soon as the next set of girls are big enough.
> Not sure i will start another thread or not. Im always on here anyway so i probably will but we shall see.
> Just like the canadian patient section of this site it just seems that alot of people online joined this site to argue and flex their internet dicks. I never claimed to be the science guru or said i had it all figured out.


I feel like im in a different universe here, what exactly has offended you? 

Its a forum its about discussions i dont know why you posted on here if you dont want people to ask questions

I havent seen any malicous or nasty comments towards you at all your acting like your being picked on its ridiculous


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## torontoke (May 23, 2015)

MonsterScrogger said:


> I feel like im in a different universe here, what exactly has offended you?
> 
> Its a forum its about discussions i dont know why you posted on here if you dont want people to ask questions
> 
> I havent seen any malicous or nasty comments towards you at all your acting like your being picked on its ridiculous


I dont consider myself being picked on..
I didnt write the article or say it would work.
In fact the first page is me saying im doubtful too.
I dont have any issues answering questions and ive done my best to answer them as best as i can. This is my first time trying this light schedule so its all new to me too.
My eyes work the same as yours i can clearly see that these buds stopped growing about 4 weeks ago. Stated it infact.
However i did see other plants under bigger lights in an open area thrive under 6/18.
So to answer your other question again. I do not claim that 6/18 is the optimal light schedule. However im positive that 12/12 may not be necessary for a similar yield and quality.

More test runs and better luck and perhaps my next thread will be full of sexier buds.


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## torontoke (May 24, 2015)

So i talked to my buddy last night apparently he chopped the six plants he had goin 6/18 on friday and they are in the drying basket. So i will post they dried weights of those by tues or wed. 
We just did the same strains on 12/12 last run so that should give some more definitive numbers.
He did say they were done almost a week earlier than last time.


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## torontoke (May 25, 2015)

Ok apparently everything is in curing jars now so heres the final weigh in on my buddies room.
Last time we did 12:12 of these three strains we got
Apollo13x snowlotus #1 yielded 58 grams #2 62 grams #3 67 grams
Chemdog was 64 grams
Chuckysbride lemon skunk yielded yielded 72 grams.

This time with 6/18 with only one light over 4 plants
They yielded
Apollo13 snowlotus#1 46grams #2 44 grams
Chemdog 39 grams
Chuckysbride lemonskunk
51 grams.

So yes they definitley produced less overall yield however he said these nugs are the tightest rock hard buds hes grown.

Not sure if i would call it a success but he yielded at least 75% using only 50% of the energy so thats a positive in my books.


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## ttystikk (May 25, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Ok apparently everything is in curing jars now so heres the final weigh in on my buddies room.
> Last time we did 12:12 of these three strains we got
> Apollo13x snowlotus #1 yielded 58 grams #2 62 grams #3 67 grams
> Chemdog was 64 grams
> ...


This squares nicely with a lot of lighting theory I've been going through lately.


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## a senile fungus (May 25, 2015)

Hmm...

I wonder how 8/16 would do?

3 rooms on a flip...


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## ttystikk (May 25, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> Hmm...
> 
> I wonder how 8/16 would do?
> 
> 3 rooms on a flip...


I beat you to it- I was thinking that very same thing and said so pages ago. That you're thinking along the same lines tells me I'm not completely insane, lol


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## torontoke (May 25, 2015)

To answer you both...
My guess would be awesome.
And thats a fantastic idea for a real perpetual setup.
Now that ive done this 6:18 
Like i said much more experimenting is is needed but there is reason for optimism


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## TheBeardedStoner (May 25, 2015)

I think that in my little experiment cab I will try out an 8/16 flower cycle this next go around. Should be interesting.


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## torontoke (May 25, 2015)

TheBeardedStoner said:


> I think that in my little experiment cab I will try out an 8/16 flower cycle this next go around. Should be interesting.


Good luck man
I hope u get every gram ur hoping for.


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## TheBeardedStoner (May 25, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Good luck man
> I hope u get every gram ur hoping for.


Honestly not worried about yeild, yeah yall read that right. Though what intrigued me was the density factor, considering when I run it, it will either be done using cfls, or a 70w hps (another experiment I want to conduct), if results go to my liking I will then do at least one 8/16 run under my 600w. 

Also to ll the naysayers, think about everything that has been brought to light because of people trying new things that others said wouldnt work.


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## RestOnSundays (May 25, 2015)

Half energy bill, 75% yield. Damn. That's a real good positive.


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## RestOnSundays (May 25, 2015)

Smoke comparison yet? I usually take about a Gram from every harvest and put in my dryer for about 6 hrs. Works great. Smokes gentle and gets dry AF after letting it sit for an hour or so.


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## skinnysmoke (May 25, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Well you can reduce it alot sooner than the last two weeks.
> To each their own tho.


I agree play with the lights but also research before just trying anything. Like op stated unless your grow for major weight (dealer) play around in your garden, no one else knows it like you do.

First week 12/12, then 11/13, then 10.5/13.5, now I'm at 9.5/14.5. Diminishing light schedule I'm trying to mimic the shortening days of fall. By the time I hit week 6 of flower times will be 8/16.
This plant was also gas light veg'd 12/1.
Pineapple Express 17 days into flower, (last week) currently on day 25,pollinated also. Nothing but cfls over her about 200 watts.


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## torontoke (May 25, 2015)

I think my opinion on flowering has changed alot since this started and im not sure what the best light schedule really is and i dont want to front the blame for anyone elses tests and experiments lol.
I definitely think that everyone should seriously dial in their room to suit their purpose. If ur a cash cropper that wants every possible gram out of every square inch of space then i must say 6/18 is not for you. 
However if you truly are a quality over quantity grower than by all means experiment and find what cost/yield works best for you.
I havent sampled any of my buddies crop im hoping to stop by their and take some soon.
Im also chopping mine one day this week so i will be smoking nice again soon.


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## torontoke (May 26, 2015)

skinnysmoke said:


> I agree play with the lights but also research before just trying anything. Like op stated unless your grow for major weight (dealer) play around in your garden, no one else knows it like you do.
> 
> First week 12/12, then 11/13, then 10.5/13.5, now I'm at 9.5/14.5. Diminishing light schedule I'm trying to mimic the shortening days of fall. By the time I hit week 6 of flower times will be 8/16.
> This plant was also gas light veg'd 12/1.
> ...


Looks good to me man
And having a bunch of seeds for future runs doesnt hurt.


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## skinnysmoke (May 26, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Looks good to me man
> And having a bunch of seeds for future runs doesnt hurt.


Thanks bro. You will get your garden in order, nothing wrong with taking chances.

Trying to make it so I never have to buy seeds again. Also keep experimenting, its the best way to grow imo.


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## skinnysmoke (May 26, 2015)

I did a little research after seeing different light schedules for veg and flowering. Since you like to experiment research gas lantern for veg. The technique is old but not commonly used by mj growers. I learned of it from a grower by the name of Rm3. 

The technique was originated by farmers to help keep plants from flowering in early spring during short daylight periods. Farmers would hang lanterns and light them for 1 hr every night until daylight period was long enough to keep plants from flowering. Thus 12/1, 12 hrs of light then 5.5 hrs off, 1 hr on, 5.5 hrs off. I have run this on 3 different strains so far, including the Pineapple Express pictured above. All of them loved it ( Ghost Train Haze and Blue Moonshine ). 

I think it is something you may like.


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## torontoke (May 26, 2015)

skinnysmoke said:


> I did a little research after seeing different light schedules for veg and flowering. Since you like to experiment research gas lantern for veg. The technique is old but not commonly used by mj growers. I learned of it from a grower by the name of Rm3.
> 
> The technique was originated by farmers to help keep plants from flowering in early spring during short daylight periods. Farmers would hang lanterns and light them for 1 hr every night until daylight period was long enough to keep plants from flowering. Thus 12/1, 12 hrs of light then 5.5 hrs off, 1 hr on, 5.5 hrs off. I have run this on 3 different strains so far, including the Pineapple Express pictured above. All of them loved it ( Ghost Train Haze and Blue Moonshine ).
> 
> I think it is something you may like.


I have seen the gas lantern technique work for veg.
I met a guy years ago using it but he still flowered 12/12. In a few weeks i will have a bunch of babies going under gas lantern veg


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## skinnysmoke (May 26, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I have seen the gas lantern technique work for veg.
> I met a guy years ago using it but he still flowered 12/12. In a few weeks i will have a bunch of babies going under gas lantern veg


When I change light schedule I start at 12/12 then lessen lights on time, as flowering weeks go by. I like the gas lantern schedule don't think I'm ever switching back.

Good luck!

Also what you breeding? I got Blue Moonshine x K.C. Bio Diesel and Pineapple Express x K.C. Bio Diesel coming from this run.


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## torontoke (May 26, 2015)

Bodhi apollo13xsnowlotus got pollinated by a solostash x phantom cookie male

Ghs chemdog got the same ssxpc male

Chuckysbride x lemonskunk x sspc

Sounds like u will have some nice seeds out of urs too


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## skinnysmoke (May 26, 2015)

I will come back and post my progress with the diminishing light schedule. Glad I came across this thread.


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## skinnysmoke (May 26, 2015)

Here is a pic from today 26 day of flower Pineapple Express 12/1 for veg. Diminishing light schedule for flowering now at 9.5/14.5 
 
 
Main pulled over was growing into cfls 
 
Please excuse pics, waiting on family member to return with my hp camera


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## torontoke (May 30, 2015)

Well i finally stopped in at my buddies and grab some samples and wow im impressed by bodhi seeds.
Those apollo 13 snow lotus nugs taste like smoking a skunky cheesy. Deep giddy body buzz i cant recommend bodhi enough.
The chemdog from ghs is meh maybe high mid grade.
Doesnt have the same kick at all.

I chopped my cab and have it currently in hanging drying baskets lol took about 10 mins to do a total trim lol i threw more in the trim pile than kept.
Should dry out to maybe 30grams and about 150 seeds.

I also had about a 90% germ rate on my next patch and have about 25 seedlings under cfls for now.
Ive also officially given up on soil. Too much of a pain in the ass. Going to use a dwc clone tote and either use a bunch of large totes to flower or buckets.


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## skinnysmoke (May 31, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Well i finally stopped in at my buddies and grab some samples and wow im impressed by bodhi seeds.
> Those apollo 13 snow lotus nugs taste like smoking a skunky cheesy. Deep giddy body buzz i cant recommend bodhi enough.
> The chemdog from ghs is meh maybe high mid grade.
> Doesnt have the same kick at all.
> ...


Are you going to continue experiments with your flowering light schedule?

150 seeds good amount to do some pheno hunting with, given you have time.

My lights are going to 9/15 tonight. Some pics for ya

Whole plant Pineapple Express 28 days flowering



Up close few of tops


 

Seeded lower bud and non-seed lower bud sites




Good growing!!


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## torontoke (May 31, 2015)

Ya once these seedlings i have now are big enough i will put them under the 12:1 veg shedule for a couple weeks to bush out and then they will be flowered out in my buddies room. I may keep 1or 2 for myself.
They will be flowered 6/18 regardless where i do em.

The 150 new seeds will be saved til i move away hopefully sooner than later

Yours are lookin good man


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## torontoke (May 31, 2015)

Im buildin up a pretty good collection of seeds before i move away.
Once i move i plan to run alot but we shall see...i tend to dream to big for my own good


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## torontoke (Jun 10, 2015)

Curiousity pushed me to trying ten of the seeds produced in this experiment so far 6/10 popped and are in jiffy pots.
These lil seedlings are going into 12:1 veg tomorrow.
I topped most already and hopefully they get bushy quick.
Theres alot of different strains so i will have a good variety to pick my favorite 2-3


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## torontoke (Jun 11, 2015)

10/10
Of dark side seeds lol
5 of each
Space snax
Doggiessbizkits lol
Well see if they are as dank as they should be soon enough


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## torontoke (Jun 16, 2015)

Almost all seedlings are at least 8" tall. Topped or fim'd all of em atleast once.
The c99 and wappa are growing the fastest.
Because i had a few various seedlings die ive replaced them with my own seeds so i will have alot of plants to choose from to pick the best 2-3.
Think i will let these veg 2 weeks more than switch them to 6/18 and we will try it again.
I will try to get some pics up tonight or tomorrow.


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## torontoke (Jun 16, 2015)

My cross seedlings are magenta coloured with really dark leaves. Will be interesting to see what they look like in a few weeks.
First feeding with nutes tonight too


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## skunkwreck (Jun 16, 2015)

torontoke said:


> My cross seedlings are magenta coloured with really dark leaves. Will be interesting to see what they look like in a few weeks.
> First feeding with nutes tonight too


Subbed....can't wait to see this grow !


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## _dj (Jun 16, 2015)

So I'm totally new to this thread. I read all of page one, then skipped to page 19, and it was really awesome to go from the beginning of the story where you were only 1 week in, and still had 7 weeks to go. Now you've already harvested. I think I skipped to the end of this book lol . Great job though!

Or harvested some. I dont know what I'm talking about.


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## torontoke (Jun 19, 2015)

Ok i switched the cab to the 12:1 veg lighting schedule under a 400w mh.
Im going to add a second exhaust fan tomorrow to help cool the cab down a bit more. After i add the fan and move some stuff i will take a bunch of pics of the different strains.


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## torontoke (Jun 24, 2015)




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## torontoke (Jun 24, 2015)

The dwc tote is in serious need of some nutes.
I have since fed the crap out of these and will top em all again one more time.
Another week or two and i will pick which ones im keeping and the rest are going to my buddies room for 6/18.
Theres
Wappa
Jillybean
Ace of spades
Goji og
Solo stash phantom cookies
C99
Chemdog x ss pc
Apollo13xsnowlotus x ss pc


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## torontoke (Jun 28, 2015)

I didnt have enough net pots so i had to throw a few plabts in soil and to my surprise they are starting to take off.
I may switch the light this week.
Sex them and then make some decisions.
So far c99 and jillybean look the nicest but its early and the goji is slowly comin around.
Cross your fingers for mostly females. I dont want any seeds this time.


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## torontoke (Jun 28, 2015)

I also threw another 10 of each of my own seeds in to germ so i can get a better idea of the germ rates and male/female ratio.


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## torontoke (Jun 29, 2015)

Against what i said earlier in the thread i did stick a few jiffy pots in soil and lo and behold the soil plants are twice the size of the dwc plants again. Looks like i know which ones im keeping already lol.
I dont know what the problem is but i dont ever get that maximum stretch and branching using dwc.
Maybe they need to be moved into a bigger tote or individual buckets.


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## torontoke (Jul 2, 2015)

Well the dwc plants are finally catching up to the soil ones.
All these babies are at least 10"-14"
Switched the light last night so i have an easy date to remember.
I will give these a week or two.
Cull the males pick my 2-3 and the rest are going to flower in my buddies room.
Next batch of seeds i put to germ had 100% germ rate and are now in jiffy pots aswell.
My perpetual setup seems to be moving ok now.
Hopefully this round gives me some nice bud this time minus the seed


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## torontoke (Jul 2, 2015)




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## torontoke (Jul 2, 2015)

Cabinet is filling up by the hour lol


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## skunkwreck (Jul 3, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Cabinet is filling up by the hour lol


Hey man it's looking great


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## torontoke (Jul 3, 2015)

Thanks
Hopefully they start to preflower as quickly as last time.
Im really curious to see how many females/males i end up with total.


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## torontoke (Jul 3, 2015)

Next batch of testers
Perkin up already


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## torontoke (Jul 5, 2015)

Lost two more of the dwc plants today. I think they have been in the small tote for too long now and they need to go into bigger buckets or something. 
The remaining plants are really bushing out.


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## torontoke (Jul 11, 2015)

Update 
The soil plants are all stretching out big time. 20-24" just starting to preflower now.
The dwc plants have also started to show signs. I pulled two plants that were starting to grow balls and two that were iffy.

My seedlings were all transfered into lil plastic cups of soil.
6 of the db seeds died or were on the brink and axed.
All of the ss seedlings are alive n kickin.


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## skunkwreck (Jul 11, 2015)

You straight working it bro


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## torontoke (Jul 11, 2015)

Im trying man
Hopefully i will be movin up into a much larger space soon.
I cant wait to run a massive room and see what i can do with real square footage.


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## fishweb (Jul 12, 2015)

Interesting stuff, keep it up. I enjoy seeing people work outside of the box and try new things.


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## torontoke (Jul 12, 2015)

So now the debate is do i look for an old house with a huge basement/garage or barn.
Or do i build a place either out of shipping containers or a log kit and plan out my own hidden basement room or something?
All the pieces are falling into place.
By next summer i should have at least a 20x8x9 room.
Going to look at one place next weekend.


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## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2015)

I've seen a 12' x 16' space average a qp A DAY in bloom.


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## torontoke (Jul 12, 2015)

Well i will have 4 "patients"
With a combained script amount of almost a hundred grams a day to provide for. Plus costs etc.
It should work out to be managable and once up and running i will have lots of room and time for pheno hunting and experimenting. Lil breeding and who knows.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2015)

Got all the equipment needed now too.
10 1000w hps
6 600w hps
2 400w mh
6 t5
A mini split and even an electronic sub controller.
3 5 foot carbon filters
Trying to stockpile everything im going to need.


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## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Got all the equipment needed now too.
> 10 1000w hps
> 6 600w hps
> 2 400w mh
> ...


"Assistance" as in that's going to be more than you'll want to bite off all by yourself.


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## torontoke (Jul 12, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> "Assistance" as in that's going to be more than you'll want to bite off all by yourself.


Ya like i said i probably wont be using all of that stuff at least not right away but after things get rolling im hoping to double each harvest perpetually and build up to it.
I am not allowed to work anymore and this is my dream job anyway.
As my full time job i wont need much help except for maybe the setup and trimming but i do have a partner for that.
Plus my two closest friends are an electrician and a plumber.


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## skunkwreck (Jul 12, 2015)

Yeah that'd be a lot of work !! I believe you can do it


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## torontoke (Jul 14, 2015)

Fuk had to pull 3 males today.
1 c99
1 goji og
1 jillybean

I really cant wait til i have enough room to keep parent stock.
Both the c99 and goji were beastly males too.
Oh well in time as they say.

All the remaining plants look to be female so far. Most are already throwing out pistils already.


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## skunkwreck (Jul 14, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Fuk had to pull 3 males today.
> 1 c99
> 1 goji og
> 1 jillybean
> ...


I was starting to say bro keep that Goji male for breeding...sucks you got to cull it .


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## torontoke (Jul 14, 2015)

Ya it almost brought a tear to my eye but visions of everything else swelling up with seeds cleaned the tears up lol.
I still have one goji in a dwc tote for now and 2 beans i didnt pop.
A generous guy was kind enough to share a couple.
I saved atleast two of everything ive ever had just for what u were thinking.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Jul 15, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Got all the equipment needed now too.
> 10 1000w hps
> 6 600w hps
> 2 400w mh
> ...


Damn dude...that is a serious grocery list!


----------



## qwizoking (Jul 15, 2015)

Sorry what were the results of 6/18?
And strain?

Ive done 12-7 hours daylight on heavy sativas


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## torontoke (Jul 15, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Damn dude...that is a serious grocery list!


Ya it is.
Luckily my closest friend was a former dg for med patients and he has donated alot of that stuff to the cause.


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## torontoke (Jul 15, 2015)

qwizoking said:


> Sorry what were the results of 6/18?
> And strain?
> 
> Ive done 12-7 hours daylight on heavy sativas


We ran 3 different strains
A pack of bodhi testers...apollo13/snowlotus,
Chemdog, and chuckiesbride/lemonskunk.
They each yielded about 75% of what they yielded using 12/12 the run before.


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## torontoke (Jul 15, 2015)

And for the record @ttystikk 
While im not happy with the fact that my experiment got pollinated i wouldnt consider 75% of the yield using 50% the light/hydrocosts to be less than stellar.
To each their own and all that


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## skunkwreck (Jul 15, 2015)

torontoke said:


> And for the record @ttystikk
> While im not happy with the fact that my experiment got pollinated i wouldnt consider 75% of the yield using 50% the light/hydrocosts to be less than stellar.
> To each their own and all that


75% of the yield with 50% of the light....yep I'm gonna have to try that for sure !  I can live with a 25% loss for half the cost! !


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## torontoke (Jul 15, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> 75% of the yield with 50% of the light....yep I'm gonna have to try that for sure !  I can live with a 25% lose for half the cost! !


Thats my thinking on the subject too. Id sacrifice a lil yield for alot of savings. Now i should also say that the light in my small cabinet is only a 400mh and the results were nowhere near even that. However my buddies room was a 600hps and the extra lumens seem to really matter when using reduced flower times.


----------



## skunkwreck (Jul 15, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Thats my thinking on the subject too. Id sacrifice a lil yield for alot of savings. Now i should also say that the light in my small cabinet is only a 400mh and the results were nowhere near even that. However my buddies room was a 600hps and the extra lumens seem to really matter when using reduced flower times.


I flower under a 400w hps


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## torontoke (Jul 15, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> I flower under a 400w hps


Well tbh this run i have going right now is actually under 8 hrs of light.
I was curious to see if 8 would make any difference. 
The reason i did this experiment at all was to see if the magazine article was completely full of shit or not.
I like everyone else didnt think the plants would even flower and they did. So now im just playin with the light to find that happy medium.
6,7,8,9,10 who knows but im no longer convinced that u need to run 12/12 to harvest acceptable yields.

My buddy who switched his room and provided the numbers from his yields told me he will use 6-8 hrs from now on. Again i should also point out that we arent looking for this light schedule to replace 12/12 for cash cropping.
We are simply trying to find a cheaper way to still produce enough meds to be worthwhile.


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## skunkwreck (Jul 15, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Well tbh this run i have going right now is actually under 8 hrs of light.
> I was curious to see if 8 would make any difference.
> The reason i did this experiment at all was to see if the magazine article was completely full of shit or not.
> I like everyone else didnt think the plants would even flower and they did. So now im just playin with the light to find that happy medium.
> ...


That's cool...I don't do either one I grow just for the pure shits an giggles of it all


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## torontoke (Jul 16, 2015)

15 days of 8/16


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## skunkwreck (Jul 17, 2015)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3460975 View attachment 3460976
> 
> 15 days of 8/16


That's awesome..now did you veg any or is that 8/16 from seed ?


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## torontoke (Jul 17, 2015)

These were vegged under the 12:1 lighting shedule for approx a month.


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## torontoke (Jul 18, 2015)

The 12:1 veg lighting is 12 hrs on 5 1/2 off 1 hr on 5 1/2 off.
In case i never posted it before.


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## torontoke (Jul 21, 2015)

Been hot as fuk here the last couple weeks. Having a hell of a time keeping my cabinet cooler than 90.
My little seedling area is below my flowering area in the cabinet and the high temps werent so nice to my batch of week old seedlings. 6 died and i put 8 beans to germ and of course all 8 popped so now i had to add two more solo cups.

The flowering plants are in full on beast mode they are growing 4-6" a day and i see new shoots every couple days. The weight of the plants is starting to tip the plants over out of the dwc tote.
I will need to add bamboo to prop em up. Definitely my last kick at dwc in such a small area. Soil plants look to be a week ahead in bud formation and are starting to bulk up. Hopefully these are goin to provide some nice smoke.

I will take some more pics tonight.


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## torontoke (Jul 21, 2015)

Day 19


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## PatchKid (Jul 21, 2015)

If you're gonna flower under the same wattage light just with less hours only to get a percentage of your normal yield, why not just use a lower wattage light? For the same amount of time... idk


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## torontoke (Jul 22, 2015)

Less hydro use means lower electric bills and easier temp management.
The idea is to use as many lumens as possible for as short a period of time as possible. 
Resulting in comparable dense bud. And shorter flower times.
Lower wattage lights make loose larfy bud.

I appreciate the feedback tho thanks.


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## torontoke (Jul 23, 2015)

Room is starting to smell awesome!!
Not so awesome that i can smell it tho lol
Gonna have to make a bigger carbon filter. Im really hoping this is my last mini run in this cabinet tho.
The property search has started.

So far c99 and goji are looking the best.


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## torontoke (Jul 25, 2015)

So pulled another solo stash phantom cookie male out and brought one of every strain to my buddies room to finish out there.

Ive kept
1 goji
1 c99
1jillybean
1wappa
1ace of spades

Out of the 8 ss phantom cookies i have ran every single one has been a hearty sexy plant except males.
Since these are the male parent stock of my seeds im hoping the offspring dont have such a high male/female ratio.


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## Rotweiller (Jul 28, 2015)

How's it going torontoke 
I'm not sure how i stumbled upon your 6hr lighting experiment but i've just spent the last 2 Hours reading all 21 pages and have thoroughly enjoyed every part of it. Apart from the odd dick head with stupid comments (we All get them but they are Easy to shut up or ignore) lol...
I'm sorry you didn't get a good amount of Bud from your girls but looking on the bright side and at todays price's of Quality Seeds and the fact that you Saved money due to Reduced Power Consumption i would say you more than made up for it 
If you put the Average price Per Seed at around £7.50/$11.67 (at todays exchange rate) and multiplied that by 150 Seeds = £1.125/$1.751 that still works out at a pretty Good Grow 
Having fuked up health myself i like to look on the bright side as well 
Take care mate


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## torontoke (Jul 28, 2015)

Rotweiller said:


> How's it going torontoke
> I'm not sure how i stumbled upon your 6hr lighting experiment but i've just spent the last 2 Hours reading all 21 pages and have thoroughly enjoyed every part of it. Apart from the odd dick head with stupid comments (we All get them but they are Easy to shut up or ignore) lol...
> I'm sorry you didn't get a good amount of Bud from your girls but looking on the bright side and at todays price's of Quality Seeds and the fact that you Saved money due to Reduced Power Consumption i would say you more than made up for it
> If you put the Average price Per Seed at around £7.50/$11.67 (at todays exchange rate) and multiplied that by 150 Seeds = £1.125/$1.751 that still works out at a pretty Good Grow
> ...


Thanks alot man.
I really appreciate feedback but that goes double for the positive stuff.
As i mentioned before this wasnt about trying to get as much bud as possible so i take a lil bit of knowledge and my jar of seeds and call it time well spent.


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## TimDog (Jul 30, 2015)

I read the article in skunk mag by Joe p. I have been using parts of this method ever since. However I flower under 12/12 for two weeks before I cut back to 6-8 hrs of light. Trust me, the only difference I notice is that my crop finishes much faster than usual. I've been doing it ever since. Smoke on friends.


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## ttystikk (Jul 30, 2015)

TimDog said:


> I read the article in skunk mag by Joe p. I have been using parts of this method ever since. However I flower under 12/12 for two weeks before I cut back to 6-8 hrs of light. Trust me, the only difference I notice is that my crop finishes much faster than usual. I've been doing it ever since. Smoke on friends.


Can you provide a link to the article?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 30, 2015)

I havent been able to find a link to the actual article.
It was in skunk mag feb/march issue.
It was called control your cannabis part deux.
If i cant find it later i will take pics of my mag and post those for anyone that wants to read it.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 30, 2015)

Good f in day today!

First i get my thc cap taken off my script so i can buy decent meds again.
I find out i won the second prize in the gro king contest.
Then i go over to a buddies house and find five plants growing in his yard that even he didnt know about lol. He planted one last year on the other side of the yard. This year theres 5 on the opposite side and i claim halfsies lol.

My cabinet is hot as fuk. I cant keep the room temp down low enough to actually lower the temp in the cab.
I have one decent 4" in and a 4" and 6" out but still the temps hover 10 degrees higher than id like.
Cant wait to have an actual room and no more fukkin around with this cabinet.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 30, 2015)

Ok the following are photos i took of my skunk mag feb/march issue article written by joe pietri published in the feb/mar issue.
Hopefully they are clear enough to read if anyone wants to read it


----------



## torontoke (Jul 30, 2015)




----------



## torontoke (Jul 30, 2015)




----------



## torontoke (Jul 30, 2015)




----------



## torontoke (Jul 30, 2015)




----------



## torontoke (Jul 30, 2015)




----------



## rover (Aug 2, 2015)

This is some cutting edge shit. I just watched a "lecture" on this exact subject yesterday then I finally found someone that actually had the balls to do it. I'm excited that I'm not the only one to question what has been widely accepted as "normal" and actually do some real research. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of people's opinions with out hard evidence. Just because you say it can't work doesn't make it true. A quote that comes to mind is a perfect example :
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Albert Einstein


----------



## torontoke (Aug 2, 2015)

@rover thanks for the interest.
Im trying to find what works best for me. The theory and article seem to be more right than wrong.
I was as skeptical as anyone going into this.

Theres a few people on this forum running reduced flower times. Not many are runnin as short a cycle as i am but there are a few of us out there. More will catch on eventually.
Im done trying to talk people into it, i have nothing to gain.


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## rover (Aug 2, 2015)

Keep up the good work. I can't wait to see you get it dialed in and shut the naysayers up. People need to start looking at the evidence instead of just following old, outdated dogma


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## torontoke (Aug 2, 2015)

rover said:


> Keep up the good work. I can't wait to see you get it dialed in and shut the naysayers up. People need to start looking at the evidence instead of just following old, outdated dogma


Naaaa
Im not like that.
I dont give two shitz about what anyone else thinks. I posted this thread so that others could see that 12/12 isnt the only way to flower a plant and ive done about all i can do using this little cabinet.
I am 100% positive that this light schedule in a big area thats easier to cool down with more lumens can produce enough meds to keep me and my friends n family happy.

Heres a nug from my last harvest that even tho was small, provided me some nice smoke and a buttload of beans for future runs.


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## skunkwreck (Aug 5, 2015)

All you bro...


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## torontoke (Aug 5, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> All you bro...


Looking good and healthy man.
I wondered where u went lol.


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## skunkwreck (Aug 5, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Looking good and healthy man.
> I wondered where u went lol.


Ran outta data lol I'm back for awhile tho


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## torontoke (Aug 5, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Ran outta data lol I'm back for awhile tho


Welcome back in that case lol
So did u pop em all?


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## skunkd0c (Aug 5, 2015)

rover said:


> actually do some real research. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of people's opinions with out hard evidence. Just because you say it can't work doesn't make it true


Does this research you speak of involve growing plants yourself 
or is it more focused on reading papers ?


----------



## skunkwreck (Aug 5, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Welcome back in that case lol
> So did u pop em all?


Nah I still got some left


----------



## torontoke (Aug 5, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> Does this research you speak of involve growing plants yourself
> or is it more focused on reading papers ?


If there were tons of pics of plants as proof you still wouldnt accept that as research anyway would you?
Have you ever seen a poinsettia those are almost all grown under the 12:1 lighting cycle.
If no one ever does anything new or different nothing changes or advances. 
I appreciate anyones opinions and will gladly listen to em


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## skunkd0c (Aug 5, 2015)

torontoke said:


> research


Do you own a lab coat ?

i am only interested in seeing some pictures of plants you have grown
not really interested in research papers you have read


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## torontoke (Aug 5, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> Do you own a lab coat ?
> 
> i am only interested in seeing some pictures of plants you have grown
> not really interested in research papers you have read


I havent posted research papers.
Someone asked for a link to the magazine article which was the starting point of this thread.
Judging by the lab coat question im gonna guess your just trying to b witty.


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## skunkd0c (Aug 5, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I havent posted research papers.
> Someone asked for a link to the magazine article which was the starting point of this thread.
> Judging by the lab coat question im gonna guess your just trying to witty.


We have a plethora of scientists on this forum who conduct research with microscopes and record the results with crayon 

all that complex stuff goes way over my head though, i just like looking at pretty pictures


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## torontoke (Aug 5, 2015)

Sorry man 
No lab coat 
Very small amount of fancy words i pick up along the way.
Kinda hard to get good pics when the light are on but i will take some tomorrow. 

Heres the babiesApollo13/snowlotus x solo stash/phantom cookies
 
Chemdawg x solostash/phantomcookies

Theres 4 of each they all look about the same only 14 days old


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## torontoke (Aug 6, 2015)

Early sugar shot
Day 36


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## skunkwreck (Aug 6, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Early sugar shot
> Day 36
> View attachment 3474088


Looks great man...can't wait to see the finish !


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## WattSaver (Aug 7, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Early sugar shot
> Day 36
> View attachment 3474088


My lab coat has been at the bottom of the hamper for several yrs now. And I'd have to say I'm one of the most non-conformist growers. 

Don't believe in 12/12 haven't had 12 on in close to 3yrs.
Don't believe in HPS (yellow light) I grow using white light for the last 4yrs 
Don't believe in Nutes in brightly colored bottles, been using CRF's for over 5yrs
I believe passive hydro can hold it's own against active hydro
I believe you can use soil in a hydro grow
And several other non-conformist methods

I appreciate you bringing up this topic. I don't know if I'll actually drop my hrs to 6 until next summer so I can run the 1k bulb. But I'm curious enough to try. Currently I'm at 9 on because of heat issues. I started this run at 10 on and a few days back I dropped it to 9. The girls haven't slowed down their stretch with the reduced light.

I hope you don't mind here's a few photos. Freebie fem seeds - Amnesia on left and Afghan Kush Special on right. Grown in 2gal coco hempy buckets with soil core, food is a blend of 2 Osmocote products. Light is dual 400w CMH. Day 26 and I stressed them a bunch in transition from veg box to flower, but they've recovered well. The support wires are right at 4' above the drain tray.


 
 
And here's the next round they are Maui crosses from a breeding event a few yrs back. I have tried the Gas Light schedule before but my veg box runs on T8 bulbs and I could see a difference in growth but they did stay in veg. So I still run it 18/6. If I had a hi wattage veg area I would use the GL schedule.


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## torontoke (Aug 7, 2015)

I dont mind at all.
The more the merrier.
Your setup looks great.
I cant wait to have a big open area like that. Im getting more and more into the idea of building one of those multi cob rigs to try to combat the temps.
Honestly i will never run 12/12 again but i also wouldnt use 6/18 either.
I like the idea of 8/16 and using one light to do three areas or building a switch box to flip so that the energy use is constant to sort of out smart the smart meter.


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## Mr.Head (Aug 9, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I dont mind at all.
> The more the merrier.
> Your setup looks great.
> I cant wait to have a big open area like that. Im getting more and more into the idea of building one of those multi cob rigs to try to combat the temps.
> ...


do it. Mine cost me about $400-450 CAD but my god is it impressing me. Haven't flowered yet but great growth on everything. Wago's make it STUPID easy. If you go with Vero's and the Molex connectors it's like lego easy lol. 

Seedlings are doing killer under it. lights 3.5-4 feet above them. I always seemed to have one side of my seedlings grow faster then the others under my HPS and CFL's I had to rotate twice a day to get proper growth in my space. This Vero29 rig has them doing great and I have a cramped space right now with lots of veggies going. 

I went with Vero 29's and CEN-100-42> Expensive to get the parts here from Cali (Jameco) but it was sooo worth it.  I went with the 1 Driver per cob so I can take one off the rig and have a veg light.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 9, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> do it. Mine cost me about $400-450 CAD but my god is it impressing me. Haven't flowered yet but great growth on everything. Wago's make it STUPID easy. If you go with Vero's and the Molex connectors it's like lego easy lol.
> 
> Seedlings are doing killer under it. lights 3.5-4 feet above them. I always seemed to have one side of my seedlings grow faster then the others under my HPS and CFL's I had to rotate twice a day to get proper growth in my space. This Vero29 rig has them doing great and I have a cramped space right now with lots of veggies going.
> 
> I went with Vero 29's and CEN-100-42> Expensive to get the parts here from Cali (Jameco) but it was sooo worth it.  I went with the 1 Driver per cob so I can take one off the rig and have a veg light.


Thats sounds alot like what i was thinking on the whole led thing tho i feel like im in a catch 22 because i have no doubt that the led would be way better for this cabinet but once i move i plan to use either a big room in the basement or a shipping container and id need way more jam. Plus theres the fact that i havent worked on two years so saying money is tight is an understatement. 
We shall see tho because the temps are making me consider shutting this bitch down for now.


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## Mr.Head (Aug 9, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Thats sounds alot like what i was thinking on the whole led thing tho i feel like im in a catch 22 because i have no doubt that the led would be way better for this cabinet but once i move i plan to use either a big room in the basement or a shipping container and id need way more jam. Plus theres the fact that i havent worked on two years so saying money is tight is an understatement.
> We shall see tho because the temps are making me consider shutting this bitch down for now.


Yeah large scale LED's aren't economical yet. I hear you on the tight money


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## torontoke (Aug 9, 2015)

I have a buttload of hps and other equipment so i wouldnt even attempt to use led to flower a large scale room. I was told i need one cob per foot and my cabinet is apparently 11 sq feet so im not even sure what and how many but once i get frustrated enough i will probably go for it and build one.


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## torontoke (Aug 18, 2015)

So its been awhile since ive updated this. But sadly havent had much good luck around here. I had to take all my plants to my buddies house. Its been super humid in my shitty apartment and couldnt keep the temps in my cab under 90.
My poor gf couldnt stand being in the room when the light was on.

Not the funnest experience loading a bunch of week 6 flowering plants into the back of a lil car. But they seemed happy once unloaded.
Should have some finished bud shots soon enough.

So im planning to tear out everything in the veg and set it up with cfls and fluoros til i build the led.
I put another whack of seeds in paper towel last night.
Figure they will be ready to go around the time the temps cool down outside.


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## rover (Aug 20, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> Does this research you speak of involve growing plants yourself
> or is it more focused on reading papers ?


I've grown enough to know that most everyone on these forums are stuck in their ways to not actually try shit out for themselves and hate on the ones that do try new things. unless you have proof, meaning actual evidence that supports your statement, your opinion doesn't mean shit. Research is both reading and applying what you read.


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## Mr.Head (Aug 21, 2015)

rover said:


> I've grown enough to know that most everyone on these forums are stuck in their ways to not actually try shit out for themselves and hate on the ones that do try new things. unless you have proof, meaning actual evidence that supports your statement, your opinion doesn't mean shit. Research is both reading and applying what you read.


sometimes the proof isn't even enough. People with good results defoliating are still shat on when they have proven results from long time experience. Trial and error. I respect those that put in the work so I don't have to. 

Spreading knowledge is valuable but there will always be those that shun facts.


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## ttystikk (Aug 21, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I havent posted research papers.
> Someone asked for a link to the magazine article which was the starting point of this thread.
> Judging by the lab coat question im gonna guess your just trying to b witty.


That was me, and thank you.


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## torontoke (Aug 21, 2015)

Mr.Head said:


> sometimes the proof isn't even enough. People with good results defoliating are still shat on when they have proven results from long time experience. Trial and error. I respect those that put in the work so I don't have to.
> 
> Spreading knowledge is valuable but there will always be those that shun facts.


Those people are steadfast in doing things the traditional ways and thats up to them. Everyone is entitled to do things in their grows however they like. 
I know a guy that still uses nothing but promix and advanced nutes 12/12 and doesnt even think about changing anything because he knows exactly what he is gonna get everytime. Doesnt matter to him that things change over time and strains have evolved. 
Its never been my intent to sell people on change im more focused on trying things for myself. And perfecting things to help me going forward.


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## ttystikk (Aug 21, 2015)

I tried gaslight timing with twelve on and one hour in the middle of the dark period- and the plants basically stopped growing. They were used to the old regime of 16 on and 8 off, should I have waited out a transition period or something? I went two weeks and had to switch back...


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## torontoke (Aug 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I tried gaslight timing with twelve on and one hour in the middle of the dark period- and the plants basically stopped growing. They were used to the old regime of 16 on and 8 off, should I have waited out a transition period or something? I went two weeks and had to switch back...


Usually i switch my seedlings from 24/0 to the glr and it takes a week or two for them to get used to it and take off. Some people do find that certain strains dont respond to well to glr. I havent come across any of those myself yet. 
I use 12 on 5.5 off 1 on 5.5 off.


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## ttystikk (Aug 21, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Usually i switch my seedlings from 24/0 to the glr and it takes a week or two for them to get used to it and take off. Some people do find that certain strains dont respond to well to glr. I havent come across any of those myself yet.
> I use 12 on 5.5 off 1 on 5.5 off.


That's the same schedule I used...


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## torontoke (Aug 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> That's the same schedule I used...


Strange 
Alot of people use glr for veg and have good results. Id say either you didnt leave it long enough to respond or the strain just isnt going to work with glr. 
What strain was it? How big were they when u switched the lights?


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## ttystikk (Aug 21, 2015)

I'm also very interested in giving the plants twelve and twelve for the initial two weeks of bloom, then going to 8 on and 16 off to see what they do relative to the standard 12/12 schedule.


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## ttystikk (Aug 21, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Strange
> Alot of people use glr for veg and have good results. Id say either you didnt leave it long enough to respond or the strain just isnt going to work with glr.
> What strain was it? How big were they when u switched the lights?


8 strains involved, all responded the same way. They were 3' tall or taller.

At the time I was running 4 x 600W HPS in batwings overhead in my prebloom veg. I've since switched to one HPS thouie and one 860W CDM, both hung vertically in the middle of the space. Almost 1/4 less watts and the plants like it much better!


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## torontoke (Aug 21, 2015)

I know guys that use


ttystikk said:


> 8 strains involved, all responded the same way. They were 3' tall or taller.
> 
> At the time I was running 4 x 600W HPS in batwings overhead in my prebloom veg. I've since switched to one HPS thouie and one 860W CDM, both hung vertically in the middle of the space. Almost 1/4 less watts and the plants like it much better!


Wow 3' are awfully tall to be switching then. Most people switch em early and use the glr to get them to 3'. Could be that they were too tall and fixed into their schedule.

The plants do seem happiest when u gove them enough light without going overboard. Ive noticed in a few peoples grows that they seem to think theres no such thing as too much light but there definately is.
Something to that old saying that sometimes less is more.

I hope you do try the 12/12 followed by 8/16 i will be interested to see how it works for you.


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## ttystikk (Aug 21, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I know guys that use
> 
> Wow 3' are awfully tall to be switching then. Most people switch em early and use the glr to get them to 3'. Could be that they were too tall and fixed into their schedule.
> 
> ...


They need to get twice that tall to fill my trellis...

The lighting change was a big improvement more for placement reasons than any other factor.


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## skunkd0c (Aug 21, 2015)

rover said:


> I've grown enough to know that most everyone on these forums are stuck in their ways to not actually try shit out for themselves and hate on the ones that do try new things. unless you have proof, meaning actual evidence that supports your statement, your opinion doesn't mean shit. Research is both reading and applying what you read.


I encounter and get skooled by various folk that talk such a beautiful grow
they have various links saved to peer reviewed studies, they are a real arsenal of information, having all the latest equipment with the most fashionable brand names , having read all the popular Jeorge + Ed books, some of them take photos of the pages to prove they have read them 
some of them even have books on botany !

i am overwhelmed by this level of scientific knowledge
i will visit their grow thread to further my education and hopefully get a glimpse of all
this wonderful knowledge being put into practice 

how do i feel when i find myself viewing sick looking plants under cfls on mr scientists grow thread 

cheated, that's how i feel, i came for the education and pretty pictures 

where are the pretty pictures !


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## torontoke (Aug 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> They need to get twice that tall to fill my trellis...
> 
> The lighting change was a big improvement more for placement reasons than any other factor.


Well i wouldnt switch the lights back to glr now but try it out from when the plants are much smaller next time and by the time they are 10-12" you will see they can really take off and you wont notice any growth slowdown. If you do run a shortened light cycle please post pics and let me know how it works out.


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## torontoke (Aug 21, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> I encounter and get skooled by various folk that talk such a beautiful grow
> they have various links saved to peer reviewed studies, they are a real arsenal of information, having all the latest equipment with the most fashionable brand names , having read all the popular Jeorge + Ed books, some of them take photos of the pages to prove they have read them
> some of them even have books on botany !
> 
> ...


Sorry you feel so cheated reading my grow journal! 
Ive seen some of your huge photo dump threads and id say you post enough pics for everyone. 
Keep in mind the cabinet being used in this thread is 32" wide 22" deep and 50" high. Not exactly room for the huge monster plant pics it would require to make you happy. Your more than welcome to post pics here yourself if you like and that goes double if you try running a shortened lighting cycle.
Cheers


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## skunkd0c (Aug 21, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Sorry you feel so cheated reading my grow journal!
> Ive seen some of your huge photo dump threads and id say you post enough pics for everyone.
> Keep in mind the cabinet being used in this thread is 32" wide 22" deep and 50" high. Not exactly room for the huge monster plant pics it would require to make you happy. Your more than welcome to post pics here yourself if you like and that goes double if you try running a shortened lighting cycle.
> Cheers


i wasn't thinking of you

i like taking pictures and looking at pictures its a hobby, if you do not like doing that its all good
i would rather see a picture of someones grow than hear them talk shit for 20 mins
each to their own

if you recognized yourself in my comment , that is something for you to deal with yourself

peace


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## torontoke (Aug 21, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> i wasn't thinking of you
> 
> i like taking pictures and looking at pictures its a hobby, if you do not like doing that its all good
> i would rather see a picture of someones grow than hear them talk shit for 20 mins
> ...


Your not alone in your love of pictures. I would much rather post pics and see them aswell. 
I actually really enjoy viewing all of yours too. I was just on one of your threads. Im not butthurt bud it would take alot to get under my skin now.

Im doing my best to deal with my current situation and hopefully i will have it figured out soon enough.


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## skunkd0c (Aug 21, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Your not alone in your love of pictures. I would much rather post pics and see them aswell.
> I actually really enjoy viewing all of yours too. I was just on one of your threads. Im not butthurt bud it would take alot to get under my skin now.
> 
> Im doing my best to deal with my current situation and hopefully i will have it figured out soon enough.


i find pretty plants sexy, when i look at them it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

i never said you was butthurt, and i do not think that

sorry if you think my statement was aimed at you and only you
i was making a general statement about lots of users that skool me, and my general favor of pictures over boring data

i think your experiment is interesting, i am interested in photoperiod experiments
but i do get bored quickly reading lots of "scientific" stuff

peace


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## torontoke (Aug 21, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> i find pretty plants sexy, when i look at them it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
> 
> i never said you was butthurt, and i do not think that
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you mean.
I get the same feeling from good photos. That and it makes me want to collect and try almost every seed i see.
My collection is growing exponentially and hopefully soon i will be the guy posting those pics to motivate others like you do.
It is what it is tho. I try to not get bummed out about my current lack of growspace while im trying to move on to better things.

I was never into the science or anything else before either and i agree sometimes the jargon could easily b set aside in favour of a whack of story telling pics.

If your interested in trying new light cycles and the possibilities of it then take the leap and try something.
Doesnt have to be radical even 10/14 is two hours of light savings.
And scientific or not i guarantee that reduced lighting periods do speed up flowering times. Could mean an extra flower cycle over the course of a year.


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## skunkd0c (Aug 21, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I know exactly what you mean.
> I get the same feeling from good photos. That and it makes me want to collect and try almost every seed i see.
> My collection is growing exponentially and hopefully soon i will be the guy posting those pics to motivate others like you do.
> It is what it is tho. I try to not get bummed out about my current lack of growspace while im trying to move on to better things.
> ...


i am not trying to knock the science or anything but that part is the easy part because for most people here who are not real scientists with degrees
the science part only involves reading a few papers and posting links to them then declaring yourself an expert because of your "credible source"

sometimes the links people post me, they have not even read the papers themselves

if people were just posting a picture we could all "see" for ourselves even though i accept the picture does not tell the whole story
but it does give each person the ability to make their own judgement on what they see in a quicker time frame
than reading through a lot of data + links to data they never wrote themselves

i am not saying i am right its just my opinion, some folk might prefer exchanging data and scientific journals rather than
looking at pictures from regular growers who are not scientists or have any peer reviewed journals under their belt
i am happy to look at pictures and hear the opinions of regular growers i like to keep it as non technical as possible

peace


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## CanadianONE (Aug 22, 2015)

Well I finally got to the end of page 24. Read every last post. Keep up what your doing. I am very interested in this technique now.


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## ttystikk (Aug 22, 2015)

The article you posted above also discussed the shortening of day length during the flower cycle. I found their reasoning to be interesting; that they'd found evidence that the plants had soaked up all they could use of the light in just six hours, and the rest of the day was a waste.

I wonder if this is a timing thing or if irradiance is also a factor; then it occurred to me that I've been coming at the same energy savings from the opposite direction; my grows run between 25-30W/ft², barely half the industry standard, yet I'm getting good results.

What if one increased irradiance, but reduced day length? The DRI, daily light interval of duration x irradiance would still seem to balance in this case.

Finally, back to the all-important yield. If reducing day length significantly hurts weight, it isn't progress. Even if a seventh crop (6 crops x 8 weeks = 48 weeks) could be squeezed in, if the end result isn't more yield then again, not progress... just an extra crop's worth of work!

Yield quality must also be carefully assessed, especially considering that we aren't really interested in the leaves, stems or even the buds themselves... but rather the resin the plant creates and secretes on its surfaces.

Personally, I suspect shorter days with stronger lighting might actually be beneficial for trichome production... Again, this would need to be tested.


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## torontoke (Aug 23, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> The article you posted above also discussed the shortening of day length during the flower cycle. I found their reasoning to be interesting; that they'd found evidence that the plants had soaked up all they could use of the light in just six hours, and the rest of the day was a waste.
> 
> I wonder if this is a timing thing or if irradiance is also a factor; then it occurred to me that I've been coming at the same energy savings from the opposite direction; my grows run between 25-30W/ft², barely half the industry standard, yet I'm getting good results.
> 
> ...


Basically thats what ive been saying for months now. Thats why the buds didnt seem to want to fill out in my small overheated cabinet under a 400mh yet under both of my friends 600hps and 1000hps they were thicker and more dense.
And they did finish early and coated in resin. He even saved the fans to process they had so much on em.

I disagree with your breakdown of if it would be progress tho without achieving the same yield.
You have to remember that with both the veg and flowering savings being 50% the cost per gram goes way down so yes it sucks losing 20-25% yield you easily add a full harvest. I guess it would require alot more math to work it out completely but its late and ive been burnin all night lol.

I still think you guys were onto something months ago with the idea of a switch box using a 24 hr day to run three flower areas. Doing that over the course of a yr with an extra 3 harvests has to make the cost efficiency worthwhile.
Once i have a bigger room i will try it and see


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## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Basically thats what ive been saying for months now. Thats why the buds didnt seem to want to fill out in my small overheated cabinet under a 400mh yet under both of my friends 600hps and 1000hps they were thicker and more dense.
> And they did finish early and coated in resin. He even saved the fans to process they had so much on em.
> 
> I disagree with your breakdown of if it would be progress tho without achieving the same yield.
> ...


But that's just it- why would someone want to give up 25% of their yield if that yield is soooooo much more valuable than the power saved? From that power savings, one has to also subtract the cost of the extra square footage.

Right now, it's worth adding 50% MORE light to get 15% more yield. I'm not hating on the idea, far from it; I'm doing some hard nosed cost/benefit calculations to see where this leads.


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## WattSaver (Aug 27, 2015)

I've tried the glr but it didn't work in my setup because my veg is powered by 4 T8 bulbs 128w total for 6sf, even at 18/6 my veg is slow. Now I always start flower at less than 12/12 usually 11/13 mainly because I grow mostly sativa dom strains. After following your thread I dropped my light on time to 9hr at the end of wk 1 this grow, I'm now wk 5+ and the plants look great, buds are packing at full speed. I can't say if they are going faster than normal because I've never grown these strains before. I may try 8 or less hrs next run.


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## torontoke (Aug 27, 2015)

WattSaver said:


> I've tried the glr but it didn't work in my setup because my veg is powered by 4 T8 bulbs 128w total for 6sf, even at 18/6 my veg is slow. Now I always start flower at less than 12/12 usually 11/13 mainly because I grow mostly sativa dom strains. After following your thread I dropped my light on time to 9hr at the end of wk 1 this grow, I'm now wk 5+ and the plants look great, buds are packing at full speed. I can't say if they are going faster than normal because I've never grown these strains before. I may try 8 or less hrs next run.


That's awesome.
Post some pics so I can live vicariously through your grow.


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## WattSaver (Aug 27, 2015)

Day 36 Amnesia on left and Afghan Kush Special (supposed to be sativa dom) on the right.



Action below the canopy


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## torontoke (Aug 27, 2015)

That looks awesome man
They seem to be loving the light schedule.


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## WattSaver (Aug 27, 2015)

I'd have to agree they don't seem to show any reduced growth at 75% of the normal hrs. I just don't know if I have the balls to go to 50% the norm right yet. Maybe next summer when I'm fighting heat again I'll give 6 a try.


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## torontoke (Aug 27, 2015)

WattSaver said:


> I'd have to agree they don't seem to show any reduced growth at 75% of the normal hrs. I just don't know if I have the balls to go to 50% the norm right yet. Maybe next summer when I'm fighting heat again I'll give 6 a try.


I wouldn't go back to 6 again.
I seriously think that's pushing it a little bit to far. 8 seems to be happy number. I was at a friends the other day and he is now at week 8 of 8/16 and those buds are rock solid and as big or bigger than what he was growing prior using 12/12. Some of his improvement is probably genetic because I've been feeding him good cuttings but the lighting doesn't show any negative effects. Actually he complained they seem to be requiring more food n water than he's used to


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## skunkwreck (Sep 3, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Your not alone in your love of pictures. I would much rather post pics and see them aswell.
> I actually really enjoy viewing all of yours too. I was just on one of your threads. Im not butthurt bud it would take alot to get under my skin now.
> 
> Im doing my best to deal with my current situation and hopefully i will have it figured out soon enough.


Your beans getting real funky smelling bro...frosty also especially the Apollo 13 cross...can't get pics right now tho


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## MrStickyScissors (Sep 3, 2015)

Cool thread. But just by looking at the pics you can tell you are not getting full potential when it comes to yield. The pic you posted that said day 36 of flower early frost, I have those size flowers by around the 18th day.


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## MrStickyScissors (Sep 3, 2015)

I start at 12/12 and go to 10/14, that works for me. Now I wish you could do an exper. on if 10/14 yields the same as 12/12 from flower


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## LetsGetCritical (Sep 3, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Ok the following are photos i took of my skunk mag feb/march issue article written by joe pietri published in the feb/mar issue.
> Hopefully they are clear enough to read if anyone wants to read it
> View attachment 3469878 View attachment 3469880 View attachment 3469881


it says the plant wont flower until the days are shorter than the night?


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## torontoke (Sep 3, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Your beans getting real funky smelling bro...frosty also especially the Apollo 13 cross...can't get pics right now tho


I look forward to seeing some pics of them. Hope they turn out twice as good as ur expecting.


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## torontoke (Sep 3, 2015)

MrStickyScissors said:


> Cool thread. But just by looking at the pics you can tell you are not getting full potential when it comes to yield. The pic you posted that said day 36 of flower early frost, I have those size flowers by around the 18th day.


I completely agree with you.
As noted in here the temps in that small cabinet became a real problem even with the 8 hr light on.
In bigger areas the light cycle seems to work a lot better.
The temps eventually caused me to move the plants somewhere else that's cooler.


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## testiclees (Sep 3, 2015)

MrStickyScissors said:


> I start at 12/12 and go to 10/14, that works for me. Now I wish you could do an exper. on if 10/14 yields the same as 12/12 from flower


How long do you go 12/12 before you drop?


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## torontoke (Sep 3, 2015)

MrStickyScissors said:


> I start at 12/12 and go to 10/14, that works for me. Now I wish you could do an exper. on if 10/14 yields the same as 12/12 from flower


Even going 10/14 is an improvement over 12/12 when it comes to energy savings and when you calculate 2 hrs a day over 7-8 weeks. An extra flower cycle worth of savings for the year.
10/14 probably doesn't cut into your yield that much. I'm just glad to see more and more people using other cycles than 12/12.


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## torontoke (Sep 3, 2015)

LetsGetCritical said:


> it says the plant wont flower until the days are shorter than the night?


That isn't really unusual even in nature or in a standard 12/12 run.
The shorter day period does seem to force the plants into flowering quicker and finishing sooner.


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## MrStickyScissors (Sep 3, 2015)

testiclees said:


> How long do you go 12/12 before you drop?


The last 3 or 4 weeks.


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## TimDog (Sep 4, 2015)

I would have to agree with the skunkdoc. What is the use of trying to learn all these different technics, if you're not going to put anything to practice. I'm new to riu this year but so far I have tried the 8 on 16 off flowering method, Uncle Ben's topping technics, and flowering from seed.(Which I probably won't do again). These two things alone have both increased my yield and cut my electric bill, not to mention quickened my flowering times. Keep smoking friends!!!


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## tokalotapot (Sep 4, 2015)

LetsGetCritical said:


> it says the plant wont flower until the days are shorter than the night?


to an extent if you use 740nm light it is much different it can be lights on for 14 hours and off for 10 and wow big difference


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## tokalotapot (Sep 6, 2015)

honest opinion about light cycles is the more light you give them and the more they are sleeping is the best way to do it. dont cut the light back to 10 hours,instead bring it to 13 hours on. with added red light for 15 minutes and the( pfr-fr plant processing the light to energy) i cant say enough about this underutilized technology. i had a buddy last night stop by with his legal grow of chemdawg.lets just say he was jealous and couldnt believe mine was done before his. even though i was 3 weeks later of my flip 14on/10off and it was better buy leaps and pounds.


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## ttystikk (Sep 6, 2015)

tokalotapot said:


> honest opinion about light cycles is the more light you give them and the more they are sleeping is the best way to do it. dont cut the light back to 10 hours,instead bring it to 13 hours on. with added red light for 15 minutes and the( pfr-fr plant processing the light to energy) i cant say enough about this underutilized technology. i had a buddy last night stop by with his legal grow of chemdawg.lets just say he was jealous and couldnt believe mine was done before his. even though i was 3 weeks later of my flip 14on/10off and it was better buy leaps and pounds.


How much of what kind of light?


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## tokalotapot (Sep 7, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> How much of what kind of light?


for a pro grow y way
this is a very dialed in detail oriented 6x6 tent but here we go.
start with the the light 1000watt hortilux eye hps cooltube (if you can get away from it and use an umbrella hood it will be better but i cant )
4 uvb reptile 2.0 26 watts each
146 watts 740nm fr RED
nutes advanced the whole line. grand daddy ect
ebb N flow
co2 1400ppm
now the collaboration of all this works like hps on 14 hours for the whole cycle of flower(veg 24hr)
use the 740nm lights for 15 minutes after hps is off everynight(instant pfr-fr light to food switch)
last 4 weeks uvb every hour for 30 minutes 
and ebb N flow flooding based on my nutes rising up i water less and at the same time helps control humidity
12 buckets equal distance on plant in each bucket


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2015)

Well the tides have changed in my life folks and I'm pumped...
Just acquired a fucking awesome piece of land. Start building my forever home next spring. Monster playroom for a basement. A lot of good things will be coming over the next year. 
I have to provide meds for 4 patients and I want to get serious about breeding and helping people.

Keep paying it forward, karma does seem to come around after all.


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## skunkwreck (Sep 12, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Well the tides have changed in my life folks and I'm pumped...
> Just acquired a fucking awesome piece of land. Start building my forever home next spring. Monster playroom for a basement. A lot of good things will be coming over the next year.
> I have to provide meds for 4 patients and I want to get serious about breeding and helping people.
> 
> Keep paying it forward, karma does seem to come around after all.


Awesome news bro...congratulations !


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## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Well the tides have changed in my life folks and I'm pumped...
> Just acquired a fucking awesome piece of land. Start building my forever home next spring. Monster playroom for a basement. A lot of good things will be coming over the next year.
> I have to provide meds for 4 patients and I want to get serious about breeding and helping people.
> 
> Keep paying it forward, karma does seem to come around after all.


Congrats, brother! Keep up the good work!


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2015)

Thanks guys.
I can't wait.
Now the hardest parts going to be waiting.


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## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Thanks guys.
> I can't wait.
> Now the hardest parts going to be waiting.


...followed closely by the conundrums presented by the desire to 'do it right', lol


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## torontoke (Sep 13, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> ...followed closely by the conundrums presented by the desire to 'do it right', lol


Yup exactly right sir.
I'm building a house out of shipping containers. Hopefully with a full walk out basement.
I have enough equipment to set up a warehouse but the goal is one big area I can section off to create a breeding room a veg room and a monster flower room. We'll see how it goes but I am a perfectionist and it should be interesting anyway.


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## ttystikk (Sep 13, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Yup exactly right sir.
> I'm building a house out of shipping containers. Hopefully with a full walk out basement.
> I have enough equipment to set up a warehouse but the goal is one big area I can section off to create a breeding room a veg room and a monster flower room. We'll see how it goes but I am a perfectionist and it should be interesting anyway.


That sounds awesome, I can't wait to see your progress!


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## torontoke (Sep 18, 2015)

I must be a glutton for punishment.
 
6 green crack
11 space snacks 11/12 germ'd
Since these space snacks are the product of a shortened flower cycle pollination I've decided to try 8/16 from seed. I will only use the cfls and t5 for a week or two then I will bump up to the mh


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## torontoke (Sep 24, 2015)

Switched the cfls and t5 to 12:1 veg light cycle. Up potting them this weekend and turning on the 250


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## torontoke (Sep 28, 2015)




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## torontoke (Sep 28, 2015)




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## torontoke (Sep 28, 2015)

Couple space cookies or whatever u wanna call em lol 
These were the miracle reveg plants that popped up outdoor.
Seem to be still filling out


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## torontoke (Sep 29, 2015)

Weird genetic trait?
3 fingered leaves and even a few single blades. Hopefully they grow out of it soon.


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## skunkwreck (Oct 3, 2015)

Yeah man they have some weird growth traits...once I topped them and the two main tops started growing they started growing in a zig zag pattern just like when they go into flowering mode .


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## torontoke (Oct 4, 2015)

Got em all transplanted except for 4-5. Fucking sucks running out of soil ingredients and having no licence. Hopefully these will be ok root bound in the cups for a day or two more.
Really hoping to get some nice mothers out of this batch of beans.
The green crack are super bushy and I'm excited to see how they stretch. The cold weather is finally coming back so here's hoping I can go back to using the bigger light asap. 
Only planning to veg these long enough to take some cuts and throw em in flower.
The clones cut from these will be vegged over the winter and planted outside next May as my first real outdoor crop.


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## torontoke (Oct 9, 2015)

Day 22 from germ
Topped early and seemed to love it.


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## torontoke (Oct 9, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 10, 2015)

I'm thinking about throwing the screen back in here and switching them to flower. I miss seeing lil buds again lol 
Plus these seeds were from the last reduced light cycle so maybe they will be better suited for it?
Not sure I've they would have evolved at all yet but I guess there's only one way to find out


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## ttystikk (Oct 10, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I'm thinking about throwing the screen back in here and switching them to flower. I miss seeing lil buds again lol
> Plus these seeds were from the last reduced light cycle so maybe they will be better suited for it?
> Not sure I've they would have evolved at all yet but I guess there's only one way to find out


You gonna do six again or try the eight hour light cycle you'd discussed?


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## torontoke (Oct 10, 2015)

No I won't be doing 6 again I will use 8/16


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## torontoke (Oct 10, 2015)

I think in the future I will try running three areas on 8 each. So in theory three harvests simultaneously.
Should really fuck with the grams per watt guys lol


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## ttystikk (Oct 10, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I think in the future I will try running three areas on 8 each. So in theory three harvests simultaneously.
> Should really fuck with the grams per watt guys lol


Just you wait 'til you see what I'VE got in store for them!

Sounds like an obvious perpetual setup opportunity; run those three rooms three weeks apart, run your veg to fill one every three weeks... and use water chilling cuz the same unit will cool the water for ask three rooms. Saves serious cash over buying an AC for each one.


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## torontoke (Oct 10, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Just you wait 'til you see what I'VE got in store for them!
> 
> Sounds like an obvious perpetual setup opportunity; run those three rooms three weeks apart, run your veg to fill one every three weeks... and use water chilling cuz the same unit will cool the water for ask three rooms. Saves serious cash over buying an AC for each one.


Sounds like we definitely think alike bro.


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## torontoke (Oct 13, 2015)

Topped the plants again this morning. Just went and checked on em and they already regrew lil nubs.
Think my diy carbon filter needs new carbon this weekend too.
Entire bedroom is rank. The space snack smell like ripe fresh skunk roadkill and the green crack smells like burning rubber.
Can't make up my mind if I should flower these under a screen or throw em into my friends room and split the harvest.
I have a special bean package in the mail with some goodies too...


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## torontoke (Oct 16, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 16, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 16, 2015)

Unusual growth traits continue
3 shoots after topping


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## torontoke (Oct 18, 2015)

Here's a pic of the last day of 12:1 veg.
I'm taking a cutting or two of each tomorrow morning and flipping to 8/16.
So this is 25 days of 12:1


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## torontoke (Oct 18, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 18, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 18, 2015)

I can't believe all the differences in growth. These are all roughly the same age. Give or take 3-5days for the seedling I had to replace


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## torontoke (Oct 21, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 21, 2015)

It's a jungle in here


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## torontoke (Oct 21, 2015)

Had to raise the light 6" because the tall bitch in the left back corner is curling up from being so close to the light. Lil 90 degree hot spots were too much for it.
Hoping to find out how many fems asap


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## fandango (Oct 21, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> But that's just it- why would someone want to give up 25% of their yield if that yield is soooooo much more valuable than the power saved? From that power savings, one has to also subtract the cost of the extra square footage.
> 
> Right now, it's worth adding 50% MORE light to get 15% more yield. I'm not hating on the idea, far from it; I'm doing some hard nosed cost/benefit calculations to see where this leads.


Not sure less light equals tight buds?
here is the story.
average flower time 12x12=840 hours...lets say each kw cost .16 per hour=134.00 to run 600w hps
now turn the light back to 6 hrs=$67.00
take a 25% less yield from 300grams,you get 225grams
say one gram goes for 5.00 wholesale
loss=$375.00 per run


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## torontoke (Oct 21, 2015)

fandango said:


> Not sure less light equals tight buds?
> here is the story.
> average flower time 12x12=840 hours...lets say each kw cost .16 per hour=134.00 to run 600w hps
> now turn the light back to 6 hrs=$67.00
> ...


If your point was that running 12/12 gives a higher yield than the energy savings are worth you didn't need to do the math.
But the equation gets messed up by not everyone selling their bud.
So to me it's more about my overhead budget (elec bill) versus a surplus of extra bud. And finding a happy balance to getting enough bud to make turning the light on at all.


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## torontoke (Oct 21, 2015)

Having the light on a shorter schedule did speed up flowering by at least a week so that is another advantage that still doesn't balance out to being more worthwhile.
For maximum yield and every last available bud the 12/12 cycle is best especially for people selling 
No argument


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## torontoke (Oct 21, 2015)

After reading your post I did some math myself so there's no confusion to anyone that reads this thread.
Assuming we use fandango's numbers $0.16 per kW and $5 per gram. A flowering time for 12/12 is 60 days. A 300gram yield.

Hours. Cost. Yield. Value. 

12. 115.20. 300. $1500

8 x55days. 70.4. 225. $1125

6x55days. 52.8 200 $1000

Also should note that having the light on for an unusual light cycle could have other positives depending on what is most important to each grower.


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## torontoke (Oct 21, 2015)

The chart I want to make is one for the one light three harvests.
So instead of editing and adding a line to that chart. So assuming all the same numbers except 24 hours of light.

24x55days = 1320 hours at $.16 = $211.20

225 grams x 3 harvests 675grams x $5
$3375


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## torontoke (Oct 23, 2015)

Still no signs of sex plants are starting to preflower so it won't be long. 
So far I have 6 cuttings from that batch that hopefully are rooting up now and as soon as I sex these they are getting the boot.
My friend has agreed to let me throw the females in his extra room and still give me 60-70% of the bud.
Tbh I don't really care I'm more excited about the next bunch of beans in popping.


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## torontoke (Oct 23, 2015)

Stretch is on today


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## torontoke (Oct 25, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 25, 2015)

I'm posting way more pics than usual so I can show that 8hrs can flower a plant. Here's hoping it works lol


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## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Oct 25, 2015)

good brave work TT!


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## torontoke (Oct 25, 2015)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> good brave work TT!


Thank you oms 
I appreciate you popping in.
Not sure if call it brave but I'm a non conformist and really cheap/poor so I'm always tinkering with maximizing bang for a buck.


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## torontoke (Oct 27, 2015)

Still no signs of sex
All the preflowers are looking more female. Fingers crossed but maybe I finally ran into some luck and will get all girls this time.
Still stretching like hell.
All have basically doubled in size over the last week.


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## ttystikk (Oct 27, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Still no signs of sex
> All the preflowers are looking more female. Fingers crossed but maybe I finally ran into some luck and will get all girls this time.
> Still stretching like hell.
> All have basically doubled in size over the last week.


No signs of sex?! You and the missus are going to have to sit down and talk... 

You're on 16 dark and eight in the light, correct? I'm shocked they aren't showing sex yet if that's the case.


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## skunkwreck (Oct 27, 2015)

torontoke said:


> It's a jungle in here


Yes it is bro...looks better then mine lol


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## torontoke (Oct 27, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> No signs of sex?! You and the missus are going to have to sit down and talk...
> 
> You're on 16 dark and eight in the light, correct? I'm shocked they aren't showing sex yet if that's the case.


Yes sir on 8/16
Been 5-6 days only tho 
Should be able to see balls if there are any forming any day now.
The misus is anti sex btw or at least that's my impression or maybe just anti sex to me lol

I'm lookin to upgrade to a newer model with less mileage


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## torontoke (Oct 27, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Yes it is bro...looks better then mine lol


Thanks man


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## ttystikk (Oct 27, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Yes sir on 8/16
> Been 5-6 days only tho
> Should be able to see balls if there are any forming any day now.
> The misus is anti sex btw or at least that's my impression or maybe just anti sex to me lol
> ...



Definitely time for a trade in. Mine's dirty all the time, for some reason it doesn't bother me, lol

My ladies show sex at about ten days. Interesting that the shorter day cycle doesn't affect this.


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## torontoke (Oct 27, 2015)

Last time they showed early so I'm surprised they haven't yet tbh
But hopefully tonight when the light comes on I will see all females.
Today is feeding day so I didn't really take a close look last night.
Tonight I will get in and investigate and take some closer pics.
Maybe I will pull them out and take some individual pics to show progression


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## torontoke (Oct 27, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 27, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 27, 2015)




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## ttystikk (Oct 27, 2015)

Still no sign of girlie parts?


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## torontoke (Oct 27, 2015)

Yes lots of signs now actually
Still no nuts
I don't want to jinx it yet but looking good so far.
I had to raise the light a bit more too
Those scraggly weird viney things on the left were getting crispy


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## torontoke (Oct 27, 2015)

I got a suspicion that Santa Claus will be bringing me the parts to build a diy led for Christmas hopefully that rocks this cabinet.
I'm thinking 5 Cree cxb3070's 
200watts.


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## skunkwreck (Oct 28, 2015)

I run mine at 18/6 for veg...drop it to 12/12 and they usually show sex in 7 to 10 days...the males show about two or three days before the ladies .


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## torontoke (Oct 28, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> I run mine at 18/6 for veg...drop it to 12/12 and they usually show sex in 7 to 10 days...the males show about two or three days before the ladies .


Well my cabinet is within ten days of yours and mine was on 12:1 for veg and now is on 8/16 for flower.
I have way more plants than you but I think it will be interesting to see what the differences look like in appearance and yield.
These are only in 1 gal pots too so they shouldn't get much bigger.

What light you using skunk?


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## skunkwreck (Oct 28, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Well my cabinet is within ten days of yours and mine was on 12:1 for veg and now is on 8/16 for flower.
> I have way more plants than you but I think it will be interesting to see what the differences look like in appearance and yield.
> These are only in 1 gal pots too so they shouldn't get much bigger.
> 
> What light you using skunk?


400w HPS and mine are still in 1 gal. containers lol


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## torontoke (Oct 29, 2015)




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## torontoke (Oct 31, 2015)

Super excited.
Just put my next batch of beans in to germ. The seed fairy paid me a visit and I got more variety.
Think I'm going to go top crazy and veg these til I get my led built.
Hopefully the parts don't take to long.

2 honeybee. 
2 grandpas breath. Dvg
2 kingsblood. Immortal flowers
2 special queen 1 Royal


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## torontoke (Oct 31, 2015)

Just chopped 4 males. 
Checked yesterday no balls, check today 4 are covered in them.
Glad I found them in time.
The rest are throwing dual pistols so hopefully they don't herm now.
Tomorrow I have to change my carbon it really reeks already.
The green crack plants have the foulest stem rub scent I've ever smelt. It's like burnt rubber n roadkill. Not sure if that is a good sign yet or not


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## torontoke (Nov 1, 2015)

Fuck
2 more males today.
So far the space phantoms are exactly 50/50 m:f
The green crack male was a surprise since they are supposed to be fem seeds.


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## torontoke (Nov 1, 2015)

I'm a bit worried about the next round of beans too. 
They look really really light coloured today


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## torontoke (Nov 1, 2015)




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## skunkwreck (Nov 2, 2015)

Looking really good bro


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## torontoke (Nov 2, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Looking really good bro


Thanks man
I just hope these are worthwhile I'm dying to get to the genstash if those pop.


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## skunkwreck (Nov 3, 2015)

You should have no problems with Gen's gear...I've seen a few different folks grow his gear with amazing results ! I'm impressed with your chucks man...they're looking great bro...I'll post a pic of your work here later when I go to the spot...its watering day today


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## torontoke (Nov 3, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 3, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 6, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 6, 2015)

Day 15 since switching to flower.


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## skunkwreck (Nov 8, 2015)

It's looking nice bro...how's it going ?


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## torontoke (Nov 8, 2015)

It's going good man.
I finally figured out what parts I needed to order to make an led light for this cabinet.
Hopefully I get the parts in time to finish this run myself then next run we will all see what a 8hr led run looks like.
I think heat was my cabs main problem . We shall see.
I just ordered a bunch of bodhi strains too so next will be a small tent for breeding projects.
New crosses and creating f2's and 3's of keepers I come across.


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## torontoke (Nov 8, 2015)

Spent the last week working on house plans and tweaking blue prints. You should have seen the architects face when I said I wanted a secret room lol
So as of now my next room will be 10x20 so I should have some room for fun


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## skunkwreck (Nov 8, 2015)

Hell yeah , sounds like a plan...can't wait to see you do your thang man


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## torontoke (Nov 8, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 8, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 9, 2015)

Green crack day 18


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## torontoke (Nov 9, 2015)

Space phantom day 18


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## torontoke (Nov 9, 2015)

Space phantom #2 day 18


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## torontoke (Nov 9, 2015)

Green crack after some bending and settling.


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## skunkwreck (Nov 10, 2015)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3539259
> Space phantom day 18


How do you count your days , from the flip or from the first sight of pistils ? I count mine from first sight of the pistils .


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## VTMi'kmaq (Nov 10, 2015)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3469912 View attachment 3469913


Never read the article but was told by "friends" following the suns light pattern just made sense. great share man thanks, makes me smile that i mentioned this in a thread a few months back and got laughed at.......glad my instincts serve me well! No more nasty power bills i guess eh?


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## skunkwreck (Nov 10, 2015)

Space phantom at 19 days


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## VTMi'kmaq (Nov 10, 2015)

LONGGGGGGG neck pistols!


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## torontoke (Nov 10, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> How do you count your days , from the flip or from the first sight of pistils ? I count mine from first sight of the pistils .


I used to do that but now I just count from flip.
It seems to get me closer to the breeders rough outline of how long.
Plus there can be a week or more sometimes between so I didn't want to fudge numbers since I didn't know if this would even work.


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## ttystikk (Nov 10, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Spent the last week working on house plans and tweaking blue prints. You should have seen the architects face when I said I wanted a secret room lol
> So as of now my next room will be 10x20 so I should have some room for fun


LOL hey why build your own home if you can't have some secret rooms and passages?


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## torontoke (Nov 10, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Space phantom at 19 days


Looks awesome man.
I found is has a very unique smell to it pretty early.
How long after the switch are u counting from?


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## torontoke (Nov 10, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> LOL hey why build your own home if you can't have some secret rooms and passages?


Exactly what I said. And then I laughed and said just be thankful I nixed the elevator and waterfall entrance to it.
I grew up watching Webster and reading to many comics lol


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## ttystikk (Nov 10, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Exactly what I said. And then I laughed and said just be thankful I nixed the elevator and waterfall entrance to it.


I'm TOTALLY building a bat cave when I build my dream house.


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## skunkwreck (Nov 10, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Looks awesome man.
> I found is has a very unique smell to it pretty early.
> How long after the switch are u counting from?


I saw pistils 8 days after the flip


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## torontoke (Nov 10, 2015)

Cool
So your 8 days ahead of me.
It helps put them into better perspective now. Yours definitely looks further ahead then mine. Which makes sense since they had an extra 8 days. And we will see how they turn out comparing my 8/16 to ur 12/12


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## skunkwreck (Nov 10, 2015)

Plus I'm flowering with hps compared to your mh...its cool getting to compare grows with the same strain using different methods . Can't wait to see both our outcomes with this flower . She definitely has a unique smell , my description is some what lacking in details but like I said on my thread...sweet with a underlying funk...can't quite grasp the name of the funkiness though .


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## skunkwreck (Nov 10, 2015)

Have you run that Chemdawg x (Solo's Stash x Phantom Cookies).... I think I'm gonna pop some on my next run .


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## torontoke (Nov 11, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Have you run that Chemdawg x (Solo's Stash x Phantom Cookies).... I think I'm gonna pop some on my next run .


I popped a few just to check germ rates but I didn't have room to grow out so many at a time. I actually just put two of them into dirt last night.
Weird coincidence that u are asking.
The chemdawg was mid range at best so hopefully the ss pc bumps up the potency.


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## skunkwreck (Nov 11, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I popped a few just to check germ rates but I didn't have room to grow out so many at a time. I actually just put two of them into dirt last night.
> Weird coincidence that u are asking.
> The chemdawg was mid range at best so hopefully the ss pc bumps up the potency.


Hey great minds think alike lol


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## skunkwreck (Nov 11, 2015)

Where did you get the Chem...seed company ?


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## torontoke (Nov 11, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Where did you get the Chem...seed company ?


They were ghs fem chemdawg.
The ex bought them for me as a b day gift and I wasn't all that happy with em. But they were vigorous growers and took well to topping and they almost changed my mind on ghs until I smoked it then I wasn't impressed lol. the ss pc should make them better but only one way to find out.
My buddy actually liked the chem and went and bought three packs cus they were cheap. I've just been spoiled lately maybe...


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## skunkwreck (Nov 11, 2015)

I was thinking of grabbing some HSO's fem Chemdawg beans...heard they were pretty good .


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## torontoke (Nov 11, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> I was thinking of grabbing some HSO's fem Chemdawg beans...heard they were pretty good .


Honestly if I were buying Chem seed ever again I'd try the bodhi cobra lips which is chem x Appalachia or the love dawg.
The glg deals are just tough to beat


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## torontoke (Nov 11, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 11, 2015)




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## skunkwreck (Nov 11, 2015)

Actually I want the Chem d BX 3 by Insane Seed Posse but can't find them anywhere.... I really want a Chem d cut but can't find anyone holding it .  I got peeps in Cali checking dispensaries for a Chem cut .


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## torontoke (Nov 14, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 14, 2015)




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## skunkwreck (Nov 14, 2015)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3542887 View attachment 3542888 View attachment 3542889


They're coming along great bro .


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## torontoke (Nov 14, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> They're coming along great bro .


Thanks man
The buds are surprisingly dense this time. In my humble opinion they don't look like they only get 8 hrs of light per day.
Heat and proximity to the plants is still an issue but hopefully the cob parts show up sooner than later and they will finish under leds.


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## IlikePhish (Nov 14, 2015)

Do you think your problems with having males (especially with the feminized seeds) is a result of going 8/16?


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## torontoke (Nov 14, 2015)

IlikePhish said:


> Do you think your problems with having males (especially with the feminized seeds) is a result of going 8/16?


No they were sort of expected.
My friend ran a pack of seeds and one of the females selfed and the resulting beans are what I popped.
If the light cycle caused males then more or all would have balls.
This run I only had 25% male


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## torontoke (Nov 16, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 16, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 16, 2015)

Day 25 today since flip.
Upped the calmag a lil 
Still filling out nicely.
The up pot to 2gal seems to be making a huge difference.


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## torontoke (Nov 16, 2015)

Not many peeps stopping by to complain that I'm not taking enough pictures this time lol
Oh well I guess it's better that this turned back into my personal journal anyway.

This run I'm super excited to see even the lower buds building up and stacking the frost early. The larger pots and switching back to an a and b instead of good ol earth juice.
If early smell is any indication it looks like I'm going to have some nice New Years smoke.


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## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

I've been doing some thinking along the lines of a variation on what you're doing here, if I may;

I'm designing a modular LED system that allows me to alter the effective PPfd delivered to the canopy at will. Current consensus thinking is that 850 PPfd, give or take, is about ideal for growing cannabis indoors. It can be done with more, but returns begin to diminish. Why? Well, another thread got me thinking... this one talked about how plants actually shut down to some extent during midday because they're getting too much light to process effectively. Perhaps as we do the same indoors, the same thing happens?

So here I am, wondering if a shorter but higher intensity application of light, say as much as 1250 PPfd, might get the best of both worlds.

I'm thinking about lighting half the growroom for six hours at this high intensity, then lighting the other half the same way for the same duration, then off for the usual twelve. I'd ensure that there'd be plenty of light spillover to keep the unlit side from entering its dark phase, and overall energy savings could be substantial vs simply lighting everything all day.

Since we're using higher intensity lighting, my bet is that total yields will not drop by very much and perhaps by less than the 25% energy savings achieved in both lighting and HVAC costs.


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## torontoke (Nov 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I've been doing some thinking along the lines of a variation on what you're doing here, if I may;
> 
> I'm designing a modular LED system that allows me to alter the effective PPfd delivered to the canopy at will. Current consensus thinking is that 850 PPfd, give or take, is about ideal for growing cannabis indoors. It can be done with more, but returns begin to diminish. Why? Well, another thread got me thinking... this one talked about how plants actually shut down to some extent during midday because they're getting too much light to process effectively. Perhaps as we do the same indoors, the same thing happens?
> 
> ...


Sounds awesome
I can totally see how it makes sense. 
The reason I decided to do this experiment at all was because I thought that in a usual 12/12 with the same wattage the plants definitely seem to be under a state of no growth and maybe even show negative effects.
Everyone refers to the leaves angling up and looking happy and I've never seen that more under any cycle as I do now.
They seem rejuvenated and excited to grow and for the light to come on.
Plus there's the heat difference and lack of it with shorter cycles.
I too am building an led light. Well soon as the parts come anyway and my light is going to be a bit different than most I've seen posted on riu.

I hope you do try it and if you do and decide to journal it please post a link or tag me cus I for one would love to see it.

All it takes are for a few tiny ideas and attempts and progress happens


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## torontoke (Nov 18, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 18, 2015)




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## skunkwreck (Nov 18, 2015)

They're looking better and better every time bro


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## torontoke (Nov 18, 2015)

Lol that's what I'm hoping for.
Kinda curious how long these are gonna take. They seem further ahead than I expected. Still a lot of time to pack on weight.

Got a phone call today from a friend begging me to make f2's of the space phantom. He called in a favour for letting me use his other room. I only have like 60 of them left so I may germ a big tray and pick the best male and 4-6 females and throw them in another cabinet and let them do their thing.


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## skunkwreck (Nov 19, 2015)

Hell yeah...if you do let me know , she has become a favorite to me . I can't wait to try the smoke ,she's the only one I have left and I killed the male lol . I thought about revegging her and keeping her as a mother plant .


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## torontoke (Nov 19, 2015)

Will do
I have to now so just wait it out lol
F2 parent selecting should happen by New Years.
If smell is any indication of taste it should be pretty good.
I should have a bunch from my buddies garden by next week.
It's been curing for a week. I will post some space phantom nugs when I get some.


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## torontoke (Nov 21, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 21, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 21, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 24, 2015)

Day 36 today and I don't think they will go past 60.
I won't chop em earlier but I think they will be done.
Here's a nug shot of space phantom. This went 57 days under 8/16


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## torontoke (Nov 24, 2015)




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## skunkwreck (Nov 24, 2015)

Looks awesome bro..mine looks like it's gonna run around 60 days or so . You got what , about 3 weeks left and I'm looking around 2 more I think .


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## torontoke (Nov 24, 2015)

I still have roughly 24 days
Think I'm gonna have a nice lil bag o dank for Christmas


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## skunkwreck (Nov 24, 2015)

Lol that's what I'm looking for... that Christmas bud .


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## torontoke (Nov 27, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 27, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 27, 2015)




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## torontoke (Nov 27, 2015)

No way these are going 60 days.
Will give em 50-55 and reassess but I doubt they go that long.
These were vegged 3-4weeks using 12:1 and then flowered under 8/16.
So to anyone saying 12:1, glr, or shortened flower cycles don't work...
Your wrong


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## skunkwreck (Nov 27, 2015)

As I understood it over the years MH's finish about a week or two faster then one under a HPS . I can't prove it personally as I have never finished under an MH but that's what I've read .I'm pulling a couple of mine at day 56 , by the looks of it , its hitting dead on day 56 !


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## skunkwreck (Nov 27, 2015)

Your buds look to be the size of mine right now by those pics .


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## ttystikk (Nov 27, 2015)

torontoke said:


> No way these are going 60 days.
> Will give em 50-55 and reassess but I doubt they go that long.
> These were vegged 3-4weeks using 12:1 and then flowered under 8/16.
> So to anyone saying 12:1, glr, or shortened flower cycles don't work...
> Your wrong


Gas lantern timing caused my veg girls to basically stop growing. They didn't flip, but they weren't getting bigger. It may be that I didn't give them enough time to get used to the new schedule.


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## skunkwreck (Nov 27, 2015)

We're doing an internet side by side grow...he's using glr and a MH...I'm using 18/6 veg and 12/12 flowering under a HPS .


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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 27, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Ok so im not sure if anyone else had attempted to actually try this new lighting schedule or if anyone read the article.
> Anyhow in skunks feb/march issue there was an article on alternative lighting schedules and i was very curious if their is any validity to it and figure the best way to find out is to try it myself.
> 
> Basically the article says that a flowering or fruiting plant only needs a 6 hr light schedule so 6/18 is supposed to give you tighter bigger fatter buds in less flowering time than 12:12


Very interesting! Thanks for putting that out there.


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## ttystikk (Nov 27, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> We're doing an internet side by side grow...he's using glr and a MH...I'm using 18/6 veg and 12/12 flowering under a HPS .


There's an interesting discussion going on in the 315W LEC lamp thread about photomorphic responses when changing spectra from veg to bloom.

In other words, it's not just the light in your bloomroom that affects the stretch, it's also the light in veg and how different it is.


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## Oregon Gardener (Nov 27, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> There's an interesting discussion going on in the 315W LEC lamp thread about photomorphic responses when changing spectra from veg to bloom.
> 
> In other words, it's not just the light in your bloomroom that affects the stretch, it's also the light in veg and how different it is.


Thanks, I'll check it out.


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## torontoke (Nov 27, 2015)

I used cfl and a t5 for 3-4weks on 12:1 than a week of 12:1 with the 400mh then went straight to 8/16.
Mine seemed to stretch most during the week of mh 12:1.
If I had have left them another week they wouldn't fit in my cabinet.
I found that transplanting them and switching the light the next day gave them a good kick start. And they seem happy in the 2 gal pots now.
This time around tho I think it's easier to see that they will finish early. @skunkwreck weren't yours like 15 days ahead when I flipped?


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## skunkwreck (Nov 27, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I used cfl and a t5 for 3-4weks on 12:1 than a week of 12:1 with the 400mh then went straight to 8/16.
> Mine seemed to stretch most during the week of mh 12:1.
> If I had have left them another week they wouldn't fit in my cabinet.
> I found that transplanting them and switching the light the next day gave them a good kick start. And they seem happy in the 2 gal pots now.
> This time around tho I think it's easier to see that they will finish early. @skunkwreck weren't yours like 15 days ahead when I flipped?


10 days I believe...I'd have to scroll through my thread to be exact.


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## torontoke (Nov 28, 2015)




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## skunkwreck (Nov 28, 2015)

Looking damn good bro....looks better then mine lol


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## torontoke (Nov 28, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Looking damn good bro....looks better then mine lol


Thanks man
I'm super excited to smoke this.
Fattest buds I've gotten out of this cabinet yet and still plenty of time to fill out.
Not sure if it's because these were bred using a reduced cycle but they seem pretty happy in their environment.


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## torontoke (Nov 28, 2015)

I put a whack of beans to germ last night.
Hopefully I get a good group to pick n choose from and the next round after these shouldn't be to far behind.
I figure I got at least 3 weeks left so within a month the beans should be ready


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## torontoke (Nov 29, 2015)

I was gonna throw this pic up in the bodhi thread but it's only 3/4 bodhi.
Still love to get some feed back on it compared to its bodhi lineage.
Looks a lot different than the original ap13xsnowlotus mother.


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## whitebb2727 (Nov 29, 2015)

I'm subbed now. Looks great.

Save you some pollen and back cross some of them plants. I would think that after a few generations they would acclimate and grow better.


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## torontoke (Nov 29, 2015)

whitebb2727 said:


> I'm subbed now. Looks great.
> 
> Save you some pollen and back cross some of them plants. I would think that after a few generations they would acclimate and grow better.


Thanks for the interest sir.
I will be bx these next run.
And thanks for all the likes. I saw I had 48 notifications was like wtf lol
All likes too lol


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## whitebb2727 (Nov 29, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Thanks for the interest sir.
> I will be bx these next run.
> And thanks for all the likes. I saw I had 48 notifications was like wtf lol
> All likes too lol


Lol. Yea I sat and read through the thread.


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## torontoke (Dec 3, 2015)

Day 42 today


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## torontoke (Dec 3, 2015)

4 honeybee
4 grampas breath 
1 kings blood
20 space phantoms going in solo cups tonight. 
Finished setting up a small bx cabinet yesturday just for crosses and creating f2's.


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## torontoke (Dec 5, 2015)

Kingsblood from immortal flowers just wouldn't germ.
Scuffed em soaked em paper towel...nothing.

4 grampas breath
3 honeybee
18 space phantoms in solos.


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## skunkwreck (Dec 5, 2015)

Sounds like a nice variety... gonna seed it up ?


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## torontoke (Dec 5, 2015)

Only the space phantoms.
They are going into a separate area.
I will only keep the best 2-3 females.
And the best male.
Not the hugest quantity to pick from but hopefully there's a gem or two.


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## torontoke (Dec 7, 2015)

Day 46


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## torontoke (Dec 10, 2015)

day 50 today


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## torontoke (Dec 10, 2015)

Smoked up a friend I haven't seen in a long time and he loved the space phantom. I was having a hard time describing the scent and taste and three pulls in he says holy Fuk does that taste like grapefruit.
So I go to the grocery store and buy a grapefruit cus I've never tried one before and he is 100% right.
I'm super curious if that is the taste that comes through on all of them.
How's yours going @skunkwreck ?


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## skunkwreck (Dec 11, 2015)

They are coming along , probably got two more weeks left to finish... can't wait to try some .


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## Krusher (Dec 13, 2015)

Great thread! I am just about to begin my first grow and after reading through this entire thread I'm pretty much convinced on starting off using the 12.1 veg cycle with a reduced flower time. I'm torn between trying the GLR or straight 8/16 for flowering. The lighting I'm using is 5 2ft T5s along with a 2 LED and 2 UVB bulbs in splitters. Do you think this is enough light to try either if these methods with successful results?

I'm hoping to add an LED at tax time (not sure if I should go California Lightworks or DIY) I still need to research more on these. 

Thanks for sharing your results. Can't wait to see final weight.


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## torontoke (Dec 13, 2015)

Krusher said:


> Great thread! I am just about to begin my first grow and after reading through this entire thread I'm pretty much convinced on starting off using the 12.1 veg cycle with a reduced flower time. I'm torn between trying the GLR or straight 8/16 for flowering. The lighting I'm using is 5 2ft T5s along with a 2 LED and 2 UVB bulbs in splitters. Do you think this is enough light to try either if these methods with successful results?
> 
> I'm hoping to add an LED at tax time (not sure if I should go California Lightworks or DIY) I still need to research more on these.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your results. Can't wait to see final weight.


I'm glad you enjoyed the read sir
I would say that you definitely have enough light to veg 12:1.
Whether it will produce enough yield in flower is a question I couldn't answer.
By what you've said it sounds like you got the right idea. Veg 12:1 for a month or however long it takes for you to build an led diy cob light

Good luck


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## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2015)

Krusher said:


> Great thread! I am just about to begin my first grow and after reading through this entire thread I'm pretty much convinced on starting off using the 12.1 veg cycle with a reduced flower time. I'm torn between trying the GLR or straight 8/16 for flowering. The lighting I'm using is 5 2ft T5s along with a 2 LED and 2 UVB bulbs in splitters. Do you think this is enough light to try either if these methods with successful results?
> 
> I'm hoping to add an LED at tax time (not sure if I should go California Lightworks or DIY) I still need to research more on these.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your results. Can't wait to see final weight.


DIY your COB LED, FTW!


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## Krusher (Dec 13, 2015)

Could you point me in the direction of some good DIY COB thread builds or grows?


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## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2015)

Krusher said:


> Could you point me in the direction of some good DIY COB thread builds or grows?


The whole LED section on RIU?

Shit tons of great info and people happy to help the serious- with their help I'm building a 5kW COB LED array, no way I'd have tried it on my own!


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## torontoke (Dec 14, 2015)

Two more days of light and then I'm pulling the plug.
I will give em two days of dark then chop.
Not expecting a huge yield but I'll have enough sticky icky to get me through the holidays.
Now I just gotta find some ho ho hoes


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## ttystikk (Dec 14, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Two more days of light and then I'm pulling the plug.
> I will give em two days of dark then chop.
> Not expecting a huge yield but I'll have enough sticky icky to get me through the holidays.
> Now I just gotta find some ho ho hoes


Now that you've got the necessary mistletoe, I do not think that will be a problem!


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## skunkwreck (Dec 15, 2015)

Chopped mine yesterday lol I let a none smoker smell the Space Phantom , she called straight skunk on it...only one person said they smelled grapefruit lol maybe after a good cure the grapefruit will come out like in yours.


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## torontoke (Dec 15, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> Chopped mine yesterday lol I let a none smoker smell the Space Phantom , she called straight skunk on it...only one person said they smelled grapefruit lol maybe after a good cure the grapefruit will come out like in yours.


 I thought you still had a couple weeks? Oh well congrats on getting to harvest it anyway. Hopefully it cures well and your happy.
Cheers


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## skunkwreck (Dec 15, 2015)

torontoke said:


> I thought you still had a couple weeks? Oh well congrats on getting to harvest it anyway. Hopefully it cures well and your happy.
> Cheers


Yeah they got pulled about 9 days early..no biggie... things got jammed up so I picked them and had to move the new babies to that spot .


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## torontoke (Dec 15, 2015)

Pulled the light today 
I will give em a quick trim n hang tomorrow.
Moved the space phantoms to their new home and will put the grandpas breath and honeybee into veg pots tomorrow.
One of the honeybee babies keeled over and died so I may throw another bean in the mix.


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## ttystikk (Dec 15, 2015)

Your experiments have me thinking about an old Heath Robinson trick; lighting the plant on one side for six hours, then on the other side for another six, and then twelve in the dark.

I think I've mentioned it before, but it has me thinking about it being another way to get more yield from the plant without spending more energy.


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## torontoke (Dec 16, 2015)

Only one way to find out bud.
I personally think yield is most dependant on genetics, pot size and veg time.
This run im happy with the 8" main bud size. And these weren't vegged very long so with some more topping training and time I'm certain that 8hrs of light would flower a worthwhile yield.
When I switched from 1 gal to 2 the yield looks to have doubled.
My buddy runs his space phantoms in 5 gals. And averages about 70grams of superb bud and more popcorn and shit then he wants using 8hrs.


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## torontoke (Dec 16, 2015)

I suppose it really comes down to what it is exactly your after.
Making as much bud as possible or as much as possible as cheaply as possible.


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## torontoke (Dec 16, 2015)

My motivation in the experiment was bang for the buck and I'm convinced.
Using the glr for veg then 8/16 I'm officially using 50% of the energy used during a typical 18/6 12/12 grow.
Now as the math guy brought up ten pages ago that the energy savings per month aren't worth 20% of the yield loss to me that's irrelevant.
It's not the monthly energy savings I care about its the cost of energy storage. Or not needing more batteries.
Now if I ever get the led going and can manage it all the way I think I can things will get interesting.
Even though I don't buy into grams per watt I think 2grams per watt using 8/16 is possible.
This thread may be 800 pages by then lol but it will get there.


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## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2015)

torontoke said:


> My motivation in the experiment was bang for the buck and I'm convinced.
> Using the glr for veg then 8/16 I'm officially using 50% of the energy used during a typical 18/6 12/12 grow.
> Now as the math guy brought up ten pages ago that the energy savings per month aren't worth 20% of the yield loss to me that's irrelevant.
> It's not the monthly energy savings I care about its the cost of energy storage. Or not needing more batteries.
> ...


They're already pulling two grams per watt. Also, @Growmau5 in the LED forum is already calculating total power consumption per gram of product, which is the metric you want to use. He just posted his latest results, fascinating stuff.

Something like 2.5kWh/g... which is the metric I believe you want to strive to minimise.


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## torontoke (Dec 16, 2015)

I meant once I'm getting 2grams per watt. I'm sure that there's many guys pulling 2plus but I guarantee that's using 12/12.
We shall see I suppose.
My led will only be around 200watts and I'm hoping to yield as much as my buddy gets with a 600hps


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## ttystikk (Dec 16, 2015)

Here's that thread;

https://www.rollitup.org/t/mau5capades-builds-grow-journal.881192/page-25#post-12153784

They're killing 2gpw already.

For your interest, you must go ultra efficient. Either @SupraSPL or @REALSTYLES or both have tested panels that run at or over 70% efficiency. Panels like these cost beaucoup dinero, because they'll use six to eight times the number of chips the wattage normally calls for! Buuuuuuut... efficiency like that is worth the up front cost in your case because it directly translates to lower installed generation and storage capacity.

I think they'd both be happy to offer some suggestions about designing and powering such a setup.

Best of all, these lights still provide excellent intensity and spectrum balance so that during lights on they're getting everything they need to produce great flavors and fully express their characteristics.


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## torontoke (Dec 16, 2015)

I appreciate the help tty but honestly after that ass clown came on about nonsense in the last thread you tagged me into I think I'm done with more threads lol.
I refuse to argue stupid points like less than 12/12 gives u 50% less thc. And that was a mod Fuk me.
I've lurked in the led section before I think I soaked up all the info I needed.
Besides posting in those threads got me little to no help in the past.
I know what I need for this cabinet and I tried ordering from king brite but he emailed me that he was sold out n waiting.

I will get it sorted


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## torontoke (Dec 16, 2015)

Wow tried to do a complete trim in one go but the ol back isn't what it used to be.
Took a break and put the 2 honeybee and 4 grandpas breath in one gal pots.
I will give them a couple days of 20/4 then I will put them under the 400 on 12:1


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## skunkwreck (Dec 17, 2015)

When .my next run comes off I'll have us some beans to play with .


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## torontoke (Dec 17, 2015)

skunkwreck said:


> When .my next run comes off I'll have us some beans to play with .


 Good luck sir.
I always try to pay it forward so I appreciate the sentiment.
Seeds for the future shouldn't be a problem and hopefully by next summer I will have something special worked out for all the generous Riu members that have helped me thus far.


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## torontoke (Dec 19, 2015)

Wow space phantom smoke report.
To me it has a coffe sweet cappuccino kind of taste. Smooth and quick hitting.
3-4 good hauls and it hits behind the eyes. Slowly creeps into a body relaxing buzz. Should be nice with a lil cure.


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## skunkwreck (Dec 19, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Wow space phantom smoke report.
> To me it has a coffe sweet cappuccino kind of taste. Smooth and quick hitting.
> 3-4 good hauls and it hits behind the eyes. Slowly creeps into a body relaxing buzz. Should be nice with a lil cure.


It did it reverse for me lol but I like it better then ES/Stardawg...better smoke , bigger yields .


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## torontoke (Dec 21, 2015)

Decided to pop a few more of those chemd beans. Figure if I run another hand full might get another 1-2 keepers.


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## torontoke (Dec 25, 2015)

Merry Christmas everyone.
I keep a tight circle and don't have many friends or family so the group I communicate most with is on here and I truly hope everyone has a fantastic holiday with their loved ones or at least doing what they love.


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## skunkwreck (Dec 25, 2015)

torontoke said:


> Merry Christmas everyone.
> I keep a tight circle and don't have many friends or family so the group I communicate most with is on here and I truly hope everyone has a fantastic holiday with their loved ones or at least doing what they love.


Happy Holidays to you and yours bro .


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## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2015)

Merry Christmas!


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## torontoke (Dec 26, 2015)

Wow
I forgot I put a bunch of the chem beans in paper towel last Monday and went to grab them today lol
First time I've ever seen not only every bean pop but throw their helmets off and literally lift the wet paper towel off of themselves.
If I wasn't always so medicated I would have snapped a pic.
Hopefully they haven't been exposed to long and take.


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## torontoke (Dec 26, 2015)

Honeybee and grandpas breath are not growing very quick.
Neither seems happy in the 20/4 or something.
Gonna switch it to 12:1 tonight and see how they like that.


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## torontoke (Dec 26, 2015)

Also because I was thinking about it earlier as I was posting in a million other threads besides my own.
Either I bred the most potent plant ever or the nonsense about using anything less than 12/12 only giving you 50% of the thc is bullshit.
I have a med card and can order and buy lab tested strains that are all 15-20plus % thc and the last few days I've been more medicated than ever.
Smoking nothing but bud grown on 8/16 and I can hardly open My damn eyes lol
So learn by trying things yourself and don't listen to naysayers with no experience or proof


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## torontoke (Jan 1, 2016)

Made the mistake of giving away some herb to friends n family for Christmas. Now I have people calling me asking for more of that "laced" weed
I don't have a scale since I don't sell but I gave away a fair bit and I still have at least two zips of top buds and a grocery bag of small nugs and popcorn to process.

All in all I was kinda disappointed with the total yield since I used a 400watt mh and I got less than 0.25grms per watt. Then the other day while cleaning the cabinet I realized that I had the light on 275watts for the entire flower cycle lol.
Still less than .5 g a watt but considering the light was only on for50% of the time of a regular grow I'll take it.


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## ttystikk (Jan 1, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Made the mistake of giving away some herb to friends n family for Christmas. Now I have people calling me asking for more of that "laced" weed
> I don't have a scale since I don't sell but I gave away a fair bit and I still have at least two zips of top buds and a grocery bag of small nugs and popcorn to process.
> 
> All in all I was kinda disappointed with the total yield since I used a 400watt mh and I got less than 0.25grms per watt. Then the other day while cleaning the cabinet I realized that I had the light on 275watts for the entire flower cycle lol.
> Still less than .5 g a watt but considering the light was only on for50% of the time of a regular grow I'll take it.


You're definitely the light starvation pioneer, lol


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## torontoke (Jan 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You're definitely the light starvation pioneer, lol


Shit.....I'll take that too
As a compliment too maybe lol


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## ttystikk (Jan 1, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Shit.....I'll take that too
> As a compliment too maybe lol


Why not? I don't see anyone else doing it?


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## torontoke (Jan 3, 2016)

Gave 6 of the chem crosses to my buddy and kept two for myself.
Threw them in with the gb and honeybee. 
Supposedly my buddy is getting cuts of gg4 and bb3 next week.
If he does I will try to steal a cut or two in a couple weeks.

We saved some Chernobyl pollen as well as some gorilla and cookie wreck pollen. Thinking of maybe dusting the gg4 and bb3 with the Chernobyl but I am doubtful the cuts are even legit.
Time will tell.


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## skunkwreck (Jan 3, 2016)

Save some of that GB pollen bro


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## torontoke (Jan 3, 2016)

skunkwreck said:


> Save some of that GB pollen bro


The grandpasbreath are really slow growing. I only have two going but if there's a male I will keep some pollen for sure.


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## torontoke (Jan 4, 2016)

Not sure any of you will care all that much but pm me your email contacts if you want to keep in contact. Not sure how much longer I will be posting stuff on this site.


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## makka (Jan 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Not sure any of you will care all that much but pm me your email contacts if you want to keep in contact. Not sure how much longer I will be posting stuff on this site.


Sorry to see you will be leaving torontoke I for one will miss ya thread And wacky light styles learnt a lot from this thread about diminishing light schedules etc take it easy pal


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## torontoke (Jan 5, 2016)

Sorry guys should have re read that post a little less medicated.
I'm not planning a random rage quit or worse just won't be posting as much as I have been and didn't want to lose contact.
More of a worst case scenario.


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## kmog33 (Jan 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Your experiments have me thinking about an old Heath Robinson trick; lighting the plant on one side for six hours, then on the other side for another six, and then twelve in the dark.
> 
> I think I've mentioned it before, but it has me thinking about it being another way to get more yield from the plant without spending more energy.


We used to run our veg room like that. 20 lights 10 on 10 off at a time during veg ever other light so we had 24/0 but only ran 10k watts at a time for veg and did not see a huge difference in vigor between running them like this vs running all 20k watts all the time. 

Flower we ran all 20 though...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## torontoke (Jan 7, 2016)

Homeybee1
 
Honeybee2


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## torontoke (Jan 7, 2016)

Grandpas breath 2
Grandpas breath 1,3 are gone to a buddies room.


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## torontoke (Jan 7, 2016)

I adopted some sick kids from the same friend.
One of the straggliest looking pairs I've ever seen.
Suppose to be a gorilla wreck but I wouldn't know. Looks like it will be touch n go if I can even save these.


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## ttystikk (Jan 7, 2016)

torontoke said:


> I adopted some sick kids from the same friend.
> One of the straggliest looking pairs I've ever seen.
> Suppose to be a gorilla wreck but I wouldn't know. Looks like it will be touch n go if I can even save these.
> View attachment 3580489 View attachment 3580490


They'll be all right with a little TLC! 

OK, a lot of TLC...


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## torontoke (Jan 7, 2016)

He carried them out of his room and I asked "where the fuk did u hatch those the dash of your car?" lol.
Guys in his sixties and he used jiffy pots to take up room in the containers Cus he ran out of promix.
Sounds like a challenge but fuk it I'll try

If I can get those things going using glr than even I will be surprised.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jan 7, 2016)

torontoke said:


> He carried them out of his room and I asked "where the fuk did u hatch those the dash of your car?" lol.
> Guys in his sixties and he used jiffy pots to take up room in the containers Cus he ran out of promix.
> Sounds like a challenge but fuk it I'll try
> 
> If I can get those things going using glr than even I will be surprised.


I'm not sure about cannabis but just about any other flower or veggie that I've saved I cut about 50-60% of the growth off.
I know it sounds crazy but it works. The root mass is bigger than what's needed for the remaining growth. It grows new growth faster than than what it could heal. Especially in a good organic soil.


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## torontoke (Jan 7, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I'm not sure about cannabis but just about any other flower or veggie that I've saved I cut about 50-60% of the growth off.
> I know it sounds crazy but it works. The root mass is bigger than what's needed for the remaining growth. It grows new growth faster than than what it could heal. Especially in a good organic soil.


Ya I will need to get these out of the beechsand/promix/jiffy pots lol 
I don't have the patience to go organic but I will be cutting off some of that mess.
Maybe even just turn them into a few cuts instead of saving them whole.
They have a weird viney growth.
I asked if he topped them and he didn't know what I meant so I was kinda confused how they went horizontal


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## whitebb2727 (Jan 7, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Ya I will need to get these out of the beechsand/promix/jiffy pots lol
> I don't have the patience to go organic but I will be cutting off some of that mess.
> Maybe even just turn them into a few cuts instead of saving them whole.
> They have a weird viney growth.
> I asked if he topped them and he didn't know what I meant so I was kinda confused how they went horizontal


I'm sure they will be fine. Its a pretty strong plant.


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## ttystikk (Jan 7, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I'm not sure about cannabis but just about any other flower or veggie that I've saved I cut about 50-60% of the growth off.
> I know it sounds crazy but it works. The root mass is bigger than what's needed for the remaining growth. It grows new growth faster than than what it could heal. Especially in a good organic soil.


Oh, this works great for weed too - especially if you're cleaning up the suckers underneath and such.


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## torontoke (Jan 12, 2016)




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## torontoke (Jan 12, 2016)




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## torontoke (Jan 12, 2016)

Sick kids are slowly coming around.
Way more viney type of growth.


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## torontoke (Jan 14, 2016)

Honeybee #2 topped 
honeybee #1 fim'd tight nodes


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## torontoke (Jan 14, 2016)




----------



## ttystikk (Jan 15, 2016)

TheBeardedStoner said:


> I think that in my little experiment cab I will try out an 8/16 flower cycle this next go around. Should be interesting.


Did you ever try this schedule? What were your findings?


----------



## torontoke (Jan 15, 2016)

Think he disappeared awhile back.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 16, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Think he disappeared awhile back.


That's too bad.


----------



## ArcticOrange (Jan 16, 2016)

torontoke said:


> 16 pages of thread and no where does anyone claim superior results so not sure where that came from.
> 6 hrs definitely meant less heat tho thats common sense and its obviously less energy on the light too since were pointing out all the obvious.
> Your photosynthisis assumption im not so sure about. The article that this light cycle came from claims that a plant or fruitting tree actually does its synthesisizing during the dark period so if thats true than a longer dark period may be benefitial.
> I didnt start this thread to argue or try to get people to join the "dark side."
> In your garden or growroom keep doing whatever it is you do and good luck to ya.


This is pretty old i know but the premise here is incorrect. C3 plants do not photosynthesize OR fix carbon during lights off. It is the most inefficient time for C3 plants and based on that alone im skeptical however you have had success flowering in half the light now to truly make a comparison you can do grams per kwh might give you a nice comparison of the two.


----------



## torontoke (Jan 16, 2016)

ArcticOrange said:


> This is pretty old i know but the premise here is incorrect. C3 plants do not photosynthesize OR fix carbon during lights off. It is the most inefficient time for C3 plants and based on that alone im skeptical however you have had success flowering in half the light now to truly make a comparison you can do grams per kwh might give you a nice comparison of the two.


Ya most of the naysayers were in before I harvested multiple crops using 8/16.
The comparisons are done and it isn't for everyone, but that's ok it works for me and thats really all I could have hoped for.
The c3 argument has been brought up many times in the past yr and a half however what my eyes saw first hand beats what theory says should happen.


----------



## torontoke (Jan 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's too bad.


Ya I agree
It would be nice if he would have tried it and maybe had a 35 plus page journal.
Oh well I guess we are just left to wonder what if


----------



## ArcticOrange (Jan 16, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Ya most of the naysayers were in before I harvested multiple crops using 8/16.
> The comparisons are done and it isn't for everyone, but that's ok it works for me and thats really all I could have hoped for.
> The c3 argument has been brought up many times in the past yr and a half however what my eyes saw first hand beats what theory says should happen.


Wasn't naysaying just backing up what i saw through your post with science. Smaller buds from less light.


----------



## ArcticOrange (Jan 16, 2016)

ArcticOrange said:


> Wasn't naysaying just backing up what i saw through your post with science. Smaller buds from less light.


Now you need to get some UV going in there, that would be an experiment in on board for as UV shortens flower time as well if used corrwctly


----------



## needsomebeans (Jan 16, 2016)

Honeybee


----------



## torontoke (Jan 16, 2016)

Indeed science wins.
Less light equaled less yield.
No argument here sir, I'm not illogical lol
But I don't deem it a failure or a real negative tbh.
After running the cycles and growing the plants I'm happy with the return only 8hrs gives me.
The next experiment will be what happens to the numbers when they receive a better spectrum overall with a diy cob light.


----------



## ArcticOrange (Jan 16, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Indeed science wins.
> Less light equaled less yield.
> No argument here sir, I'm not illogical lol
> But I don't deem it a failure or a real negative tbh.
> ...


I agree that its not a failed experiment. I want to run an experiment where i would minic the sun for 10 weeks after equinox slowly shortening the days and increasing the nights. I think it may have merit for decreasing power while maintaining yield but i need more space so i can do a side by side. Ill be sure to make a journal when i do.

Also im utilizing UV differently than i have in the past as someone showed me how they shave 2 weeks off their flower time and i got very intrigued. I will be documenting that in my grow thread.


----------



## torontoke (Jan 16, 2016)

ArcticOrange said:


> I agree that its not a failed experiment. I want to run an experiment where i would minic the sun for 10 weeks after equinox slowly shortening the days and increasing the nights. I think it may have merit for decreasing power while maintaining yield but i need more space so i can do a side by side. Ill be sure to make a journal when i do.


I would gladly watch along!
I tried to be clear about my results and I have stated the claims made in the article weren't mine and I definitely saw a huge difference in yield. The article claimed same or better yield and that's not true.
However most said the plants would die hermie or produce low thc bud and they were all wrong too.
I find 8hrs gives me enough frosty bud to be worth my while and with a few more tweeks here n there I will be happy.
If anything this process has showed me to try things and modify others.
My long term goal has changed and the results I saw are why I say I won't ever run 18/6 or 12/12 again.

But that's just me and my needs certainly we all have different motivations.


----------



## torontoke (Jan 17, 2016)

Gorilla wreck seems to be a lil happier now that she's in a 2gal with fresh ss mix. Cut a lot of dead shit off yet she looks bigger than ever.


----------



## torontoke (Jan 17, 2016)

Everyone is getting cozy under the glr. Got the light turned down for a couple weeks.


----------



## skunkwreck (Jan 17, 2016)

I love those square container's


----------



## torontoke (Jan 18, 2016)

skunkwreck said:


> I love those square container's


Me too
No more wasted space.
I use the 1gal and 2gal 
I got all my buddies using them now too.


----------



## skunkwreck (Jan 18, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Me too
> No more wasted space.
> I use the 1gal and 2gal
> I got all my buddies using them now too.


Hard to find square ones in my area...US sizes are inaccurate... 1 gals. are actually .66 gal. and 3 gals. are actually 2.66 gals. So you gotta go big around here to produce anything lol


----------



## torontoke (Jan 21, 2016)

Two honeybee


----------



## torontoke (Jan 21, 2016)

Grandpas breath


----------



## torontoke (Jan 21, 2016)

Gorilla wreck orphans


----------



## needsomebeans (Jan 21, 2016)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3590727 View attachment 3590726
> Gorilla wreck orphans


Looks like they are going to make it. I've not tried gorilla glue or any of it crosses. Am I missing out on the next big thing?


----------



## torontoke (Jan 21, 2016)

needsomebeans said:


> Looks like they are going to make it. I've not tried gorilla glue or any of it crosses. Am I missing out on the next big thing?


That's what I'm hoping to find out myself.
I haven't had a chance to try anything gg related.
These were cannaventure beans my buddy bought. Looks like they will be ok and I'm not sure what the gg phenos are supposed to look like but these are both really branchy and kinda viney. Neither one is growing up more so out.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 21, 2016)

I've got a GG4 cut growing right now. I'll let you know how it turns out... in May lol


----------



## torontoke (Jan 27, 2016)

Honeybee 
Grandpas breath


----------



## torontoke (Jan 27, 2016)

Gorilla wreck rescues


----------



## torontoke (Jan 29, 2016)

Here's tonight's treat.
Cured space phantom stickyicky icy


----------



## skunkwreck (Jan 30, 2016)

^^^^^ beautiful bro


----------



## torontoke (Feb 4, 2016)

Grandpas breath


----------



## torontoke (Feb 4, 2016)

Honeybee


----------



## skunkwreck (Feb 7, 2016)

Nice looking plants...can't wait to see them flower .


----------



## torontoke (Feb 7, 2016)

skunkwreck said:


> Nice looking plants...can't wait to see them flower .


Soon enough buddy 
I don't like posting veg pics either lol
But I posted them to show that 12:1 or the glr works and they will veg.
Going into 2gal pots today probably flip them to 8/16 next week


----------



## torontoke (Feb 9, 2016)

Everything is in 2gal pots
Light switch tomorrow.
I'll post pics Friday and then the next 7 Friday's if they go that long.

Not sure which stinks more the honeybee or the gpb but both already overpower a room when I took em out to xplant.


----------



## skunkwreck (Feb 9, 2016)

Ahhh sooki now


----------



## torontoke (Feb 9, 2016)

skunkwreck said:


> Ahhh sooki now


Lol huh


----------



## torontoke (Mar 13, 2016)

The beginnings of a buttload of work this spring summer.
Bunch of beans goin outdoor this year!
11 Malawi gold
6 huckleberry 
6 Swiss cheese
2 dawgbizkits
1 cheese candy
Stretchy as f but I'll be replanting them in 1/2 gals next week.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 13, 2016)

How's it been going?


----------



## SPLFreak808 (Mar 13, 2016)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3631155
> The beginnings of a buttload of work this spring summer.
> Bunch of beans goin outdoor this year!
> 11 Malawi gold
> ...


Have fun with the malawi's man! They get pretty big imo and veg very quickly.

What is dawgbizkits? Wow lol


----------



## torontoke (Mar 14, 2016)

The malawis should get big everyone keeps warning me and telling me 5 gal pails won't be enough but that's the plan anyway.

Dawgbizkits is the offspring of my chemdawg that got pollenated by a solo stash x phantom cookie male.
So far I've only see a couple grown out and they have nice structure for outdoor trees.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 14, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> How's it been going?


Been lousy tbh but I struggle on.
Was in the hospital twice in the last month and have my foreseeable future booked with specialist appointments.
Still doing my best to stay positive tho.
Just built the first of many grow sheds the other day lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 14, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Been lousy tbh but I struggle on.
> Was in the hospital twice in the last month and have my foreseeable future booked with specialist appointments.
> Still doing my best to stay positive tho.
> Just built the first of many grow sheds the other day lol


I'm sorry to hear this, my friend. You seem like the stoic type, I had no clue. 

Keep doing what you do. That's what winning looks like.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 14, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Been lousy tbh but I struggle on.
> Was in the hospital twice in the last month and have my foreseeable future booked with specialist appointments.
> Still doing my best to stay positive tho.
> Just built the first of many grow sheds the other day lol


Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm sorry to hear this, my friend. You seem like the stoic type, I had no clue.
> 
> Keep doing what you do. That's what winning looks like.


I'm not sure I've ever considered myself stoic but I suppose it fits my current emotional state. Whether this is what winning looks like....well it certainly doesn't feel like I'm winning much.



whitebb2727 said:


> Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better.


Thanks I'm sure everything will work out. It usually does.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

torontoke said:


> I'm not sure I've ever considered myself stoic but I suppose it fits my current emotional state. Whether this is what winning looks like....well it certainly doesn't feel like I'm winning much.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks I'm sure everything will work out. It usually does.


That would be the definition of stoicism, right there. 

Get well soon, meantime don't let it stop you.


----------



## skunkwreck (Mar 16, 2016)

Hope you get to feeling better quick my man and yes you're winning....the "dawgbizkits" is a yielder....easily a zip per gal. of grow medium...just harvested two of them at 60 days...a zip per plant and in half gal. containers so outdoors they should become beasts . Far out yielded everything else in the garden ! Great cross you made there !!!!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 16, 2016)

skunkwreck said:


> Hope you get to feeling better quick my man and yes you're winning....the "dawgbizkits" is a yielder....easily a zip per gal. of grow medium...just harvested two of them at 60 days...a zip per plant and in half gal. containers so outdoors they should become beasts . Far out yielded everything else in the garden ! Great cross you made there !!!!


Appreciate the feedback but Mother Nature gets all the credit on that one all I did was bring two kids together that obviously already had a glimmer in their eye for each other lol
They look delicious.
Still interested in hearing how she smokes for you. I actually just finished a bag of it my buddy grew out up here. Nice n frosty too.
I'm hoping to throw 6 females outside this season so we'll see how she does outdoor soon. Might even sprinkle a lil pollen on one if she's sexy.


----------



## caretak3r (Mar 31, 2016)

ArcticOrange said:


> I agree that its not a failed experiment. I want to run an experiment where i would minic the sun for 10 weeks after equinox slowly shortening the days and increasing the nights. I think it may have merit for decreasing power while maintaining yield but i need more space so i can do a side by side. Ill be sure to make a journal when i do.
> 
> Also im utilizing UV differently than i have in the past as someone showed me how they shave 2 weeks off their flower time and i got very intrigued. I will be documenting that in my grow thread.


Sorry for replying to an older post, but I'm on a quest to find all the tricks to finish faster. I'm already adding uvb to my cab, but is there more technique involved in using UVB to speed up the finish from what you've been told?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

caretak3r said:


> Sorry for replying to an older post, but I'm on a quest to find all the tricks to finish faster. I'm already adding uvb to my cab, but is there more technique involved in using UVB to speed up the finish from what you've been told?


I run my ladies good n warm, this definitely speeds things up. Mid 80s warm.


----------



## RM3 (Mar 31, 2016)

caretak3r said:


> Sorry for replying to an older post, but I'm on a quest to find all the tricks to finish faster. I'm already adding uvb to my cab, but is there more technique involved in using UVB to speed up the finish from what you've been told?


check Gas Lantern Routine otherwise know as Gas Light Veg or 12/1 

Has knocked 7 to 10 days off all mine


----------



## torontoke (Mar 31, 2016)

I just run my light for 8hrs during flower and on average it shaves 5-10days off the total times we were getting using 12/12


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

caretak3r said:


> Sorry for replying to an older post, but I'm on a quest to find all the tricks to finish faster. I'm already adding uvb to my cab, but is there more technique involved in using UVB to speed up the finish from what you've been told?


Three of the best on the forum responded in half an hour. The coffee must be good today!


----------



## caretak3r (Mar 31, 2016)

Sorry to crash your thread torontoke, thanks for the hospitality  Thanks for all the feedback to all. I started a thread in the LED section trying to get this type of info but didn't quite get the response I was hoping for. I have a small flowering cab (26" w x 39"h x 33"d). I've got 6 vero 18s (3500K and 4000K) running ~1A each for ~180-200w. I'll be using them for side lighting soon (right now they are up top). I'm adding 2 v-series v22 on dimmable 3A drivers along with an old red/blue chinese panel that I'm running soft (swapped drivers for 300ma ones) on top. So I have 100W of cheap red/blues, up to 200W of 4000K v22, up to 200w of vero 18s and a t5 reptile bulb for UVB, and 730nm far reds for Pfr trigger. I will dial them up/down to what the plants respond to. I have about 30 clones that have been rooting in 12/12 for about 10 days. They are now starting to show pistils. I'll prune them all for single colas and plant them in 1Gal smarpots (about 3 to a pot). I want to run 4on/10.5 off (short night aided by the 730nm trigger) and start to lengthen the nights/off period by 10 or 15 min increments each cycle toward the end of the grow (via my own timer script that I run with a raspberry pi and relay board). I know this is a little crazy but I can do it perpetual to make up for lost yield and I'm in a situation where I need these girls to finish as fast as possible. I'll start a journal here and @ RM3's place within a week or so.


----------



## RM3 (Mar 31, 2016)

caretak3r said:


> and @ RM3's place within a week or so.


At my place ???


----------



## caretak3r (Mar 31, 2016)

also, just wanted to say thanks to torontoke for sharing this thread - It's really hard to find documented grows on shortened day cycles.


----------



## caretak3r (Mar 31, 2016)

RM3 said:


> At my place ???


well, in a manner of speaking -- at your place on the interwebs


----------



## RM3 (Mar 31, 2016)

caretak3r said:


> well, in a manner of speaking -- at your place on the interwebs


ya must have a different name there ,,,,, all good ,,,,,,,, carry on


----------



## torontoke (Mar 31, 2016)

caretak3r said:


> also, just wanted to say thanks to torontoke for sharing this thread - It's really hard to find documented grows on shortened day cycles.


I know that's why I posted mine lol
Now if I could ever get my cranky buddy to let me take some pics of my other room I'd light this thread up with some nugporn.
I'm just glad someone else found the info useful.
There's only a few of us really trying stuff and sharing our findings but more n more people are starting to ask questions.
Any way good luck with your experiment and let us know how it goes.
Post a link in here to your journal when u start one.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 8, 2016)

Sorry for the lack of updates folks but there's been a whole lot goin on in my life lately.
My health seems to have calmed down and I've been slowly working away on my off grid property so not much spare time to post as often as I used to in the past.
The last batch of beans I popped have now been transplanted into 1gal pots and another batch his been popped. 

Also my first real attempt at a pollen chuck looks to have been super successful. I helped trim a crap load of plants last week that were oozing seeds out of everywhere.
They are currently in drying baskets and hopefully I get enough beans to share some love.
Will be interesting to see the results of these crosses that were created again using an 8hr light cycle.

Next project will be creating a run of fems with cs and we will see how that goes.
Not just a guy that's was too lazy to pull the male in time anymore.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2016)

Super skunk from a pc
Motorebel Ronny James dio
Red eyed genetics lake of fire

Time to fill the cabinet up again


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 13, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Sorry for the lack of updates folks but there's been a whole lot goin on in my life lately.
> My health seems to have calmed down and I've been slowly working away on my off grid property so not much spare time to post as often as I used to in the past.
> The last batch of beans I popped have now been transplanted into 1gal pots and another batch his been popped.
> 
> ...


Glad your health is OK. I just made some cs. I'm going to start making fem beans.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 13, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Glad your health is OK. I just made some cs. I'm going to start making fem beans.


Cool what are you making?


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 13, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Cool what are you making?


I'm going to start with the mephisto Heisenbergs and dinafem blue amnesia xxl. I would love to have a few hundred auto flower seeds to throw in random outdoor places next year.

I will make some c99 and other photo seeds to. I would like to fem every strain I grow. If the smoke is good keep the beans. Build a large inventory and then refine the work.


I also have seeds saved from my teenage years. That was back when real road kill and red hair skunks were on the east coast. I would like to play around with those and see what I could find.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 13, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I'm going to start with the mephisto Heisenbergs and dinafem blue amnesia xxl. I would love to have a few hundred auto flower seeds to throw in random outdoor places next year.
> 
> I will make some c99 and other photo seeds to. I would like to fem every strain I grow. If the smoke is good keep the beans. Build a large inventory and then refine the work.
> 
> ...


Sounds good
I have a fairly good stash now myself that I'm hoping to lock in and fem.
My biggest problem is too much ambition sometimes but big homers come from big swings I suppose.


----------



## Dr. Who (Jul 4, 2016)

Dr. Who said:


> The idea for this whole schmear came from a paper from 1913 in France from a man named Julien Tournois....He was growing Hops and Hemp "underglass" (old term for greenhouse growing) He found that they would "flower most precociously in winter". He observed that they would flower _most _rapidly when allowed _only 6 hours of daylight._
> 
> Further intel
> https://books.google.com/books?id=wh9sW9QII6kC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=Julien+Tournois&source=bl&ots=CVDfEmC5DZ&sig=-lnx1NhB-Puu5zHT4rqocBVjqy8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5V8hVe2PN4SLsAXfq4CADw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Julien Tournois&f=false
> ...


Update on resulting yield.......With highly shortened lighting times...........6&7 hrs on time. I averaged over a 20% loss in yields vs "normal" lighting times of 11/13...

Once dipping into less then 9+ hrs the resulting yield loss was unacceptable for my needs....There was some quality loss also.

Gas light in veg is fine!


----------



## NewtoMJ (Jul 6, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Sounds good
> I have a fairly good stash now myself that I'm hoping to lock in and fem.
> My biggest problem is too much ambition sometimes but big homers come from big swings I suppose.


A risk never taken is just glory you left for someone else


----------



## torontoke (Aug 2, 2016)

Well as the summer season winds down I'm realizing just how much I miss having my lil experiment cab going.
I've spent the last few months working my ass off in the great outdoors but I'm burning out.
And not in a good way.
I have several plants outside and they should keep me busy and in smoke for a short time but I really need to get a perpetual going.
So today I tried to order a bunch of cob led chips and left a few email messages in the meantime it's time to pop some new beans and get ready.

Open to suggestions 
Should I go with known strains or run testers


----------



## genuity (Aug 2, 2016)

What you got to pop?
I say pop your stuff first, with a few known strains..

They are all winners


----------



## torontoke (Aug 2, 2016)

genuity said:


> What you got to pop?
> I say pop your stuff first, with a few known strains..
> 
> They are all winners


Sup bud
I've got a few to choose from that's the problem now. I wanna pop em all lol

Here's the short list
Goji x Chernobyl *
Gorilla wreck x Chernobyl *
C99 x nycd *

* would be testers

Blue lemon Thai
Purp power 
Mendo purp
Og nl 
Agent o


----------



## torontoke (Aug 2, 2016)

Still have a couple honeybee I've been saving too.
Was hoping for one of those pink ladies but I'd rather wait til I have room to keep a male if that's all I get again.


----------



## genuity (Aug 2, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Sup bud
> I've got a few to choose from that's the problem now. I wanna pop em all lol
> 
> Here's the short list
> ...


C99 x nycd & mendo purp


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2016)

I'm just happy to see you getting back into the swing, brother.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Aug 2, 2016)

I'm thinking of a sorta perpetual type grow. Three plants at a time in my cab. I will set another cab next to it. Put some led bulbs in it and grow one plant. Make a scrog screen on it. As I'm ready to flower, I will move it to the cab. 

Not exactly a huge perpetual but I think it will work.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 2, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I'm thinking of a sorta perpetual type grow. Three plants at a time in my cab. I will set another cab next to it. Put some led bulbs in it and grow one plant. Make a scrog screen on it. As I'm ready to flower, I will move it to the cab.
> 
> Not exactly a huge perpetual but I think it will work.


Should work wonderfully


----------



## torontoke (Aug 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm just happy to see you getting back into the swing, brother.


Never stopped swinging bro
Just been doing most my stuff on the down low and keeping busy.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Never stopped swinging bro
> Just been doing most my stuff on the down low and keeping busy.


Glad to hear, I've been busy too. Peep my thread, around page 129.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Glad to hear, I've been busy too. Peep my thread, around page 129.


Oh I was watching 
Saw it all as it unfolded.
I don't comment or get involved much like I used to but I stay up on the info/posters I respect


----------



## torontoke (Aug 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Glad to hear, I've been busy too. Peep my thread, around page 129.


It's been some of your setup mixed with a few of my own zany ideas that I've been working on behind the scenes.
Hopefully by next summer I'll have some big updates to drop and show.
In the meantime it's good to be back in the communal frame of mind.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 2, 2016)

torontoke said:


> It's been some of your setup mixed with a few of my own zany ideas that I've been working on behind the scenes.
> Hopefully by next summer I'll have some big updates to drop and show.
> In the meantime it's good to be back in the communal frame of mind.


Oh yeah? I can't wait to see how I've infected your thinking, lol


----------



## torontoke (Aug 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Oh yeah? I can't wait to see how I've infected your thinking, lol


I was planning some big vertical experiments already but now that the government and health Canada made their announcement I'm downright giddy with excitement lol

In a month I'll be legally allowed to go nutz. I'm allowed 25plants and to grow for someone else cousin is allowed 99 plants so should be fun once all the paperwork is done.

Been working my ass off up north so hopefully my good luck continues to build and pulls me back upright.

I put a bunch of beans in paper towel last night.
I'll post pics in a few days of the next round of contestants


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 15, 2016)

torontoke said:


> I was planning some big vertical experiments already but now that the government and health Canada made their announcement I'm downright giddy with excitement lol
> 
> In a month I'll be legally allowed to go nutz. I'm allowed 25plants and to grow for someone else cousin is allowed 99 plants so should be fun once all the paperwork is done.
> 
> ...


You know I'll be watching!


----------



## torontoke (Aug 24, 2016)

Ok cleaned out the cabinet.
Changed a few bulbs.
And I'm about ready to give it another go.
 
They all jumped out of their helmets.
Give these a week and I'll start another batch and either buy or make a tent to use til I move


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

So seeing as most of this website is full of assholes that want to argue and talk shit this will be one of the only threads I'll be posting on anymore.

When health Canada announced the rule changes on aug24 I was as happy as I remember ever being and I mistakenly ventured back into the Canadian patient section where there's nothing but gloom doom and nonsense. I won't be making that mistake again! Fuk them

Half dozen d cure babies and a few other strains are just getting going.
Bodhi testers are supposed to be in the mail aswell so hopefully soon I'll be back to updating this thread on the reg again and sharing my experiences as it goes.

Still using the glr or 12:1 for veg and 
8/16 to flower. I'm nothing if not stubborn and motivated


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> So seeing as most of this website is full of assholes that want to argue and talk shit this will be one of the only threads I'll be posting on anymore.
> 
> When health Canada announced the rule changes on aug24 I was as happy as I remember ever being and I mistakenly ventured back into the Canadian patient section where there's nothing but gloom doom and nonsense. I won't be making that mistake again! Fuk them
> 
> ...


Been a few good people run off lately.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

Thinking about upgrading the experimenting cabinet a lil bit.
Heat and proximity have been the major hurdles this far so summer was impossible even if I was home.

Thinking about buying 4 or 5 of those cheap ass citizen cobs and trying a run under led using 8/16.
Anyone got experience with em? Is it worth the time and money?

Also need a different fan in this thing the two 4" pc fans just weren't keeping up.
Can a 6" inline be turned down enough to not sound like a plane landing


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Been a few good people run off lately.


Hate to see that, especially peeps like @torontoke, because he's doing some very interesting work. Fuck the haters, they're afraid to try anything different so they shit on those who do.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Thinking about upgrading the experimenting cabinet a lil bit.
> Heat and proximity have been the major hurdles this far so summer was impossible even if I was home.
> 
> Thinking about buying 4 or 5 of those cheap ass citizen cobs and trying a run under led using 8/16.
> ...


DUDE, get yourself some COB LED- you'd kill it!

6" muffin fans can be run on a cheap speed controller so you can adjust airflow and noise. Don't try it with a Maxfan.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Been a few good people run off lately.


I try to be as easy going as possible in life. 
Drama and anger are things I don't have time left in my life for.
Having health issues and my own personal demons really changed my perspective and ended my days of want for debate.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> I try to be as easy going as possible in life.
> Drama and anger are things I don't have time left in my life for.
> Having health issues and my own personal demons really changed my perspective and ended my days of want for debate.


I'm right there with ya, brother. 

The ignore button is there for sanity, I use it regularly.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Thinking about upgrading the experimenting cabinet a lil bit.
> Heat and proximity have been the major hurdles this far so summer was impossible even if I was home.
> 
> Thinking about buying 4 or 5 of those cheap ass citizen cobs and trying a run under led using 8/16.
> ...


I'm thinking of building a rig with citizen cobs. I reckon they are pretty good.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I'm thinking of building a rig with citizen cobs. I reckon they are pretty good.


They kick butt and they're much cheaper than Cree.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> I try to be as easy going as possible in life.
> Drama and anger are things I don't have time left in my life for.
> Having health issues and my own personal demons really changed my perspective and ended my days of want for debate.


I don't mind debate. I just don't like the personal attacks.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> DUDE, get yourself some COB LED- you'd kill it!
> 
> 6" muffin fans can be run on a cheap speed controller so you can adjust airflow and noise. Don't try it with a Maxfan.


Thanks for the kind words tty 
Good to know my imprint has been left no matter how small.

I think the LEDs are the next natural progression and I am dying to try a run with them. Plus I'm kinda handy and love making shit.
My question was more specific about the cheap citizen cobs I can get them for about $14

I've been threatening to buy some cob parts forever but the tech keeps improving so fast I am afraid to waste money I sadly don't have


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> They kick butt and they're much cheaper than Cree.


Mine will most likely still have t5. A couple bulbs anyways.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Thanks for the kind words tty
> Good to know my imprint has been left no matter how small.
> 
> I think the LEDs are the next natural progression and I am dying to try a run with them. Plus I'm kinda handy and love making shit.
> ...


Use quality parts like meanwell for the drivers and it will last a long time and then you can change the cobs as they come out.

I would love to have around 6-800 watts to flower with run off solar panels. 

Maybe tax time.


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## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I don't mind debate. I just don't like the personal attacks.


Tbh I'm ok with debate aswell and when I'm wrong I'm the first person to say I'm wrong. My mistake and move on.
Most folks tho are to proud to ever concede and debates turn into personal attacks because school yard tactics are engrained


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Use quality parts like meanwell for the drivers and it will last a long time and then you can change the cobs as they come out.
> 
> I would love to have around 6-800 watts to flower with run off solar panels.
> 
> Maybe tax time.


Ya I was looking at 4 or 5 cobs citizen 1212's 
1 meanwell driver 
Should only be about 200watts total but I think they would be awesome in my lil cabinet


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## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Ya I was looking at 4 or 5 cobs citizen 1212's
> 1 meanwell driver
> Should only be about 200watts total but I think they would be awesome in my lil cabinet


Yes they would, just drive them soft, like around 50W. 

They'd substantially improve your DLI even on the short day cycles you're running.


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## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Yes they would, just drive them soft, like around 50W.
> 
> They'd substantially improve your DLI even on the short day cycles you're running.


Fuk it I'm going to order them this week and get to designing.
I'll look into muffin fans too since I never heard of them.


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Ya I was looking at 4 or 5 cobs citizen 1212's
> 1 meanwell driver
> Should only be about 200watts total but I think they would be awesome in my lil cabinet


That is about what I was looking at. 2-300 watss with a couple of 54 watt t5 bulbs. I think it would rock my cab. 

I keep wanting a big room. I think I can get by with my cab I have now. Go back to scrog growing. Three plants in the current cab and then a second 2x2 cab to start one plant in. That would keep me at the 4 limit I need to work with and allow me to stagger my harvest.

Or go with one big room and grow 4 big trees.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> That is about what I was looking at. 2-300 watss with a couple of 54 watt t5 bulbs. I think it would rock my cab.
> 
> I keep wanting a big room. I think I can get by with my cab I have now. Go back to scrog growing. Three plants in the current cab and then a second 2x2 cab to start one plant in. That would keep me at the 4 limit I need to work with and allow me to stagger my harvest.
> 
> Or go with one big room and grow 4 big trees.


I'm building up my lil piece of land right now that's where I've been all this time.
Hoping by this time next year my house is built and I will finally have my own whole room or section of the basement to dabble.
But in the meantime I need to get this cab helping ease my pains.

I don't really remember all the numbers all the time but I think your cabinet is a lil bigger than mine.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> I'm building up my lil piece of land right now that's where I've been all this time.
> Hoping by this time next year my house is built and I will finally have my own whole room or section of the basement to dabble.
> But in the meantime I need to get this cab helping ease my pains.
> 
> I don't really remember all the numbers all the time but I think your cabinet is a lil bigger than mine.


Mine is 2x4x6. It holds three five gallon pots. My biggest yields have been from scrog. Build a system like scrogco and start one at a time and stagger them in flower. I figured for the 2x2 cab I can put one 100 watt cob or a few cree house led bulbs.


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## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Fuk it I'm going to order them this week and get to designing.
> I'll look into muffin fans too since I never heard of them.


@Stephenj37826 might be very helpful in the process of picking out a specific combo of chips and driver that will rock that cab.


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## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Mine is 2x4x6. It holds three five gallon pots. My biggest yields have been from scrog. Build a system like scrogco and start one at a time and stagger them in flower. I figured for the 2x2 cab I can put one 100 watt cob or a few cree house led bulbs.


Mine is 33" wide 24" deep and 48" high. With 18" underneath for seedlings and cuts under a couple t5's and cfls.
I've been using a 400mh but I had to run it half power or the heat gets crazy in there.


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Mine is 33" wide 24" deep and 48" high. With 18" underneath for seedlings and cuts under a couple t5's and cfls.
> I've been using a 400mh but I had to run it half power or the heat gets crazy in there.


I say the cobs will be a lot better. Dimming hid really hurts the spectrum.


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## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Mine is 33" wide 24" deep and 48" high. With 18" underneath for seedlings and cuts under a couple t5's and cfls.
> I've been using a 400mh but I had to run it half power or the heat gets crazy in there.





whitebb2727 said:


> I say the cobs will be a lot better. Dimming hid really hurts the spectrum.


Running an MH at half power can cut its expected lifespan by 90%, this from Philips themselves. 

MUCH better to get a 250W lamp. Of course COB LED is by far the better option anyway.


----------



## Stephenj37826 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Mine is 33" wide 24" deep and 48" high. With 18" underneath for seedlings and cuts under a couple t5's and cfls.
> I've been using a 400mh but I had to run it half power or the heat gets crazy in there.


So your flower area is 30" tall ? Just asking to try to help.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

There's no need to fear, the MAXIMIZER is here!

Lol, couldn't help myself!

Nothing tickles me quite as much as introducing two good friends to one another and then seeing what they do together.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

Stephenj37826 said:


> So your flower area is 30" tall ? Just asking to try to help.


No worries sir 
I'm always open to advice and help.
I worded those dimensions incorrectly. The top or flower area is 48" tall. The cabinet over all is 67"
I'm only trying to improve the lighting situation for flower.
I was thinking 2 citizen 1212 at 3500k and 2 citizen 1212 at 4000k
In the shape of an x and I'd rotate it a quarter turn every couple days.


----------



## Stephenj37826 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> No worries sir
> I'm always open to advice and help.
> I worded those dimensions incorrectly. The top or flower area is 48" tall. The cabinet over all is 67"
> I'm only trying to improve the lighting situation for flower.
> ...



If I was going the citizen route for flower it would be 3000k 90cri all day. 4 1212s and an hlg 185h c1400 would be good. Hlg240 h c1750 if you want tons of light. Id go 240 as you can always dim.


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## torontoke (Sep 5, 2016)

Stephenj37826 said:


> If I was going the citizen route for flower it would be 3000k 90cri all day. 4 1212s and an hlg 185h c1400 would be good. Hlg240 h c1750 if you want tons of light. Id go 240 as you can always dim.


Thanks for the feedback
I thought mixing the spectrums would give a best of both worlds but I'm no where near educated enough on the differences.
I also thought the hlg 185 was dimmable with a fixed pot on the unit.


----------



## Stephenj37826 (Sep 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Thanks for the feedback
> I thought mixing the spectrums would give a best of both worlds but I'm no where near educated enough on the differences.
> I also thought the hlg 185 was dimmable with a fixed pot on the unit.


All hlg models come in a or b versions. A being dimmer built in the unit b being external 3in1 dimming easiest being 100k potentiometer. Also "c" version is constant current while no c is constant voltage.


----------



## Odin* (Sep 6, 2016)

@torontoke I've perused the first dozen pages of this, or so, and may God bless you in your endeavors, as well as heal your ailment(s). 

Your spirit and good nature translate well through text/your writing. Jah love, stay "good people". We need more like you in this world. You got kids? Spread "the seed".

You may have already shared this, but what, exactly, ails you? 

In direct defiance of your health concern(s), may you have innumorous healthy trips around the Sun.

Many blessings and well wishes,
Odin*


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## torontoke (Sep 6, 2016)

Odin* said:


> @torontoke I've perused the first dozen pages of this, or so, and may God bless you in your endeavors, as well as heal your ailment(s).
> 
> Your spirit and good nature translate well through text/your writing. Jah love, stay "good people". We need more like you in this world. You got kids? Spread "the seed".
> 
> ...


Thank you sir.
I truly appreciate your kind words.

My health has been deteriorating rapidly the last couple years.
My dr says I have the spinal cord of an 80yr old. Deteriorating discs, arthritis and compression fractures from a car accident. Something else is wrong upstairs and they can't figure out why I have seizures, and one good one last year destroyed my ankle when I fell.

Still I would rather not dwell on those negatives I'm thankful for every new day of sun I see and get to enjoy.
Limping and in pain is still being alive and for that I'm grateful.

blaze on I shall


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## Odin* (Sep 6, 2016)

@torontoke My neck and back are "shot", probably not where yours are, but bad. After an epidural ("ass" and disc injections failed to ease inflammation) I was told that only cutting the discs and/or fusing vertebrae would solve the problem. Bullshit. Smoking helps. I'm fortunate that I can still lift ("workout"). If you can, start a daily excercise routine. As you progress, intermittently include some weight training into your program. The only time that I am "problem free" is when I am active in the gym. The endorphins released, without any other benefit, are worth it. That being said, the increased blood flow will increase localized healing. Tendons/ligaments/cartilage are not heavily vascularized, so healing in those tissues is almost nil without "artificially" introducing blood. Also, testosterone is a powerful anti inflammatory and increases the metabolic pathways surrounding "healing" and "production". The only activities that promote testosterone production are sleep and vigorous excercise. If you are neglecting one, or both, you are at a fraction of your natural "healing factor" (yeah, like Marvel's "Wolverine").

For reference, my worst "attack" was a full spinal spasm that had me reeling on the floor for 9 hours straight. Pee'd into a milk carton and couldn't "bear down" for the next 10 days. Next episode took me off my feet for three months, when I finally "arose", I hobbled with a severe "S" in my spine. That is when I finally went to my Dr (don't go unless "I'm dying"). Not trying to be a "1 up'r". I highly doubt mine is as severe, just want to help and let you know that I "kinda" (but not to the same extent) know what you're going through.


If you need a few pointers feel free to ask. I just might know a thing, or two, about "a thing, or two".


Peace and love, brother.


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## torontoke (Sep 13, 2016)

Babies are started


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## torontoke (Sep 27, 2016)

Bodhi testers are wet
Hopefully I get good germ rates and a few fine females.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 27, 2016)

I have some disc problems. Nerve problems to. I hate it when a nerve get aggravated. The burning and stinging. I hobble with a limp when it flares up.

Got bad knees to. Did a under pinning job last year where I was on my knees and got fluid buildup and knees got swollen. Couldn't hardly walk for a few weeks.


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## torontoke (Sep 27, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I have some disc problems. Nerve problems to. I hate it when a nerve get aggravated. The burning and stinging. I hobble with a limp when it flares up.
> 
> Got bad knees to. Did a under pinning job last year where I was on my knees and got fluid buildup and knees got swollen. Couldn't hardly walk for a few weeks.


I feel your pain dude
My discs flare up every other day and there's a different pain higher up in my mid back everyday.
No one can figure it out and they all say my back looks fine cept for the fact that I'm always doubled over and limpy.
My ankle seems like it will never be the same but I guess that's expected with such a bad break.
Oh well 
Mj and percs keep me numb and zombified


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 27, 2016)

torontoke said:


> I feel your pain dude
> My discs flare up every other day and there's a different pain higher up in my mid back everyday.
> No one can figure it out and they all say my back looks fine cept for the fact that I'm always doubled over and limpy.
> My ankle seems like it will never be the same but I guess that's expected with such a bad break.
> ...


Like dead center of the back? I got lower disc problems and got a couple vertebrae that are closing up and pinching a nerve. 

I had the center back problem start a while back. I know its bad but I'm scared to go find out what is wrong.


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## ttystikk (Sep 27, 2016)

It's for people like y'all that I work so hard to build a better way. Less cost means lower prices and wider availability for all who need it.


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 27, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's for people like y'all that I work so hard to build a better way. Less cost means lower prices and wider availability for all who need it.


I just wish people around here would pull thier heads out of thier asses and legalize. Hemp was a good step and hopefully mj is to follow. 

Although I am of the belief there is no such thing as marijuana. It is all hemp. Marijuana is slang and propaganda.


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## torontoke (Sep 27, 2016)

My l2-5 are shot
Bulging and dry. Fluid has all disappeared. Arthrosis in there I've been told. 
Mid back like nipple height they said I had compression fractures but they have healed but don't feel like it.


ttystikk said:


> It's for people like y'all that I work so hard to build a better way. Less cost means lower prices and wider availability for all who need it.


And It is appreciated as always sir.


----------



## torontoke (Oct 3, 2016)

5 of 7 bodhi testers popped.
The lone remaining d cure baby is looking good.
Finally got my dr to sign my forms to legally grow but now I need to move to be able to use the forms.
My current landlord wants me out by the end of November so she can Reno and double her profit.

Guess I should have expected this since nothing good ever happens without 3 or 4 bad things simultaneously.
Oh well on to bigger and better things.
Keep burning everyone I know I will


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## torontoke (Oct 13, 2016)

30 days of 12:1 for the lone d cure
Smells like a steamy egg fart first thing in the morning.
Nice tight nodes tho excited to see what she smokes like.

4 atf x ssdd about to ready to take off I hope


----------



## torontoke (Oct 24, 2016)

Atf x ssdd testers.
20days of glr
 
D cure topped once filling out


----------



## torontoke (Nov 1, 2016)

Atf x ssdd were showing lots of stretch so I up potted them to 2gal and buried them halfway.  
I never ran straight ssdd but judging by the size of these fans I'd say they are leaning more to the ssdd side


----------



## torontoke (Nov 1, 2016)

Can't wait to move and get settled.
Got a phone call the other day from a buddy telling me that he went to shake the tarp I had above my girls up north and they were gone.
6 6' tall plants that weren't even close to being done.
Pisses me off to think that no one will get anything worthwhile from them yet some asshat thought they were still worth stealing.

So since this is not the first time this has happened to me I'm 100% never putting another plant outside.


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## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Can't wait to move and get settled.
> Got a phone call the other day from a buddy telling me that he went to shake the tarp I had above my girls up north and they were gone.
> 6 6' tall plants that weren't even close to being done.
> Pisses me off to think that no one will get anything worthwhile from them yet some asshat thought they were still worth stealing.
> ...


Unless it's your own property, at least.


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## torontoke (Nov 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Unless it's your own property, at least.


It is
My own property
Covered in no hunting/trespassing signs.
Karma will hopefully catch the culprit instead of me.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2016)

torontoke said:


> It is
> My own property
> Covered in no hunting/trespassing signs.
> Karma will hopefully catch the culprit instead of me.


Well fuck. Probably best for your karma if you don't. Sorry, man.


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## torontoke (Nov 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Well fuck. Probably best for your karma if you don't. Sorry, man.


Thanks bro
I've been kicked enough while already down that this won't really faze me. Live n learn and keep on smirking.
I'll replace those 6 girls with 12 inside soon enough.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 1, 2016)

That sucks torontoke. I got hit and lost a number of plants. For me that's the risk of guerilla growing.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 1, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> That sucks torontoke. I got hit and lost a number of plants. For me that's the risk of guerilla growing.


Summer of 02 I lost more than I'm even comfortable admitting bro.
Sadly not the first time but it will be the last.


----------



## OldMedUser (Nov 1, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Also need a different fan in this thing the two 4" pc fans just weren't keeping up.
> Can a 6" inline be turned down enough to not sound like a plane landing


I use a DIY fan controller on a 6" inline fan and it's doing the job running at half speed and is way quieter. You don't want a light dimmer but one that's for ceiling fans. I just put it in an metal electrical box, should have used a plastic one, and wired in cords on either end. To buy all the parts is probably as much or more than buying a speed controller online but I had all the parts other than the controller which was about $12.

 

How does this Gas Light thing work? I expect to be running close to 3K worth of lighting soon and with the high cost of power here in northern Alberta I wouldn't mind saving a few kwh if I can and still get good results.

Great thread!


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## thegyoseedbank (Nov 1, 2016)

Whatever works man!


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## torontoke (Nov 1, 2016)

OldMedUser said:


> I use a DIY fan controller on a 6" inline fan and it's doing the job running at half speed and is way quieter. You don't want a light dimmer but one that's for ceiling fans. I just put it in an metal electrical box, should have used a plastic one, and wired in cords on either end. To buy all the parts is probably as much or more than buying a speed controller online but I had all the parts other than the controller which was about $12.
> 
> View attachment 3820138
> 
> ...


Thanks bud
Gas light routine or 12:1 is
A 13 hr veg cycle instead of the conventional 18 or 24.
So it's 12 on 5.5 off 1 on 5.5 off
Saves at least 5 hrs a day minimum while keeping the plants in veg.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 1, 2016)

thegyoseedbank said:


> Whatever works man!


Thanks for stopping by


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## OldMedUser (Nov 1, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Thanks bud
> Gas light routine or 12:1 is
> A 13 hr veg cycle instead of the conventional 18 or 24.
> So it's 12 on 5.5 off 1 on 5.5 off
> Saves at least 5 hrs a day minimum while keeping the plants in veg.


Thanks. I knew about that schedule but never heard it called that. Just sounds like it couldn't grow as well as a full 18 hours to me. I use lower light levels and restrict nutes to stall plants when I want to slow them down and it just seems like gaslighting will do much the same thing.

Experiences?


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## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2016)

Here's a twist; instead of running veg 18 on and 6 off, a friend suggested I try 6 on and 2 off, the times a day. The theory was that plants do their best growing in the first part of the day, so replicate that.

The plants- none of which are auto flowers- in this regime are remaining in veg state. No surprise but it's always nice to have confirmation, right?

They do seem to like it and grow vigorously. I see no ill effects. I noticed a slowdown in growth rates under standard 12/1 gaslight timing, these grow easily as fast- or faster.

I don't have proof so I'm not making the claim, but they 'seem' to be growing a bit faster than when I ran 18/6. One theory is above. Another possibility is that the room doesn't get as hot over 6 hours as it would with 18 hours of continuous lighting, so plants are in better conditions.


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## whitebb2727 (Nov 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's a twist; instead of running veg 18 on and 6 off, a friend suggested I try 6 on and 2 off, the times a day. The theory was that plants do their best growing in the first part of the day, so replicate that.
> 
> The plants- none of which are auto flowers- in this regime are remaining in veg state. No surprise but it's always nice to have confirmation, right?
> 
> ...


Mid day depression. Makes sense that it works.


----------



## OldMedUser (Nov 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's a twist; instead of running veg 18 on and 6 off, a friend suggested I try 6 on and 2 off, the times a day. The theory was that plants do their best growing in the first part of the day, so replicate that.
> 
> The plants- none of which are auto flowers- in this regime are remaining in veg state. No surprise but it's always nice to have confirmation, right?
> 
> ...


I have no problem keeping temps steady under 24/0 if I wanted that but I'm a believer that plants need a sleepy time too to be as healthy as possible so stick to 18/6 or 20/4 so they get a solid few hours of sleep. I know I wouldn't want to get up after two hours, be awake for 6 then sleep for two more. I'm more of an 18/6 guy in real life. 

As the plants do most all their growing and producing sugars etc that they need to grow using light as their energy source it just doesn't seem logical that they could do as well with a broken light schedule and less hours of light. Time is wasted shutting down and getting going again and it goes against what millions of years of evolution has fine-tuned the plants genetics to want.

I'm not saying there isn't merit in either idea but put me down as skeptical.

Thanks for the response.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 1, 2016)

OldMedUser said:


> I have no problem keeping temps steady under 24/0 if I wanted that but I'm a believer that plants need a sleepy time too to be as healthy as possible so stick to 18/6 or 20/4 so they get a solid few hours of sleep. I know I wouldn't want to get up after two hours, be awake for 6 then sleep for two more. I'm more of an 18/6 guy in real life.
> 
> As the plants do most all their growing and producing sugars etc that they need to grow using light as their energy source it just doesn't seem logical that they could do as well with a broken light schedule and less hours of light. Time is wasted shutting down and getting going again and it goes against what millions of years of evolution has fine-tuned the plants genetics to want.
> 
> ...


Fair enough sir
To each their own and all that


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Mid day depression. Makes sense that it works.


My goal is tall plants and it's very effective.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 5, 2016)

Well I had to cut 3 out of 4 atf X ssdd today.
Started showing nutz.
1 female atfxssdd left and the lone d cure


----------



## torontoke (Nov 5, 2016)

Guess that's the joy of running testers.
Also went and applied for a new house today. Sort of important to me. Lol 
Need somewhere to set up the two tents I ordered off eBay.
Here's hoping they show up in plain boxes and before I have to move.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 7, 2016)

So I got the shipping info on the tents. Supposed to be on the way but we shall see.
I ordered a 4x8x6 and a 4x4x6
Plan to start seedlings in my cab then veg in the 4' and flower in the 8.
After the first cycle through I'll switch the lil cab back to seedlings,breeding and males.

Now I'm pumped to see how many square 3gals I can cram in that 8foot tent. Should be fun
I can almost smell it already.
My legal plant count will be 28 so now I need to figure out the best way to break that into a successful routine.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 7, 2016)

torontoke said:


> So I got the shipping info on the tents. Supposed to be on the way but we shall see.
> I ordered a 4x8x6 and a 4x4x6
> Plan to start seedlings in my cab then veg in the 4' and flower in the 8.
> After the first cycle through I'll switch the lil cab back to seedlings,breeding and males.
> ...


7x4=28 or seven stages of four plants each, so I'd do 3 week rotations in a perpetual cycle, 1 cycle for clones, 3 for veg and 3 for bloom. 

If you want smaller plants more often, you could try 2 week cycles, 3 in clone/veg and 4 in bloom. That seems pretty tight to me tho.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 7, 2016)

I was thinking 9+9+9
Alternate chopping 3 or 4 plants every month. Should allow the plants to have a 5week veg on average if the Ol foggy brain is doin the math right.
5weeks of veg should give me a couple zips a plant minimum.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 9, 2016)

I'm not much into the drama and arguing associated with ggg but I have to admit I'm impressed with this d cure.
Day 8 of 8/16 and she's covered in bud sites. Gonna be nice long wands The lonely bodhi tester is starting to get into gear too


----------



## torontoke (Nov 12, 2016)

Trying to update more regularly if for no one else but for myself to keep track.
Day 11


----------



## torontoke (Nov 16, 2016)

Day 16 of 8/16
Here's d cure 
Here's the lone bodhi tester.
Day 16
Looking nice and frosty early imo


----------



## torontoke (Nov 16, 2016)

Sorry for the blurry pics it is the best I can do with this shotty phone


----------



## torontoke (Nov 19, 2016)

Bodhi tester with absolutely zero side growth. Unusual nose kind of reminds me of black licorice with punch.
Going to pop the last 4 beans as soon as I get settled after the move.
I'll then try topping them early and often to see if I can force some branching.

The d cure is starting to gain some weight and both are now starting to frost up
Not bad for 19 days


----------



## JDMase (Nov 20, 2016)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3835139
> Bodhi tester with absolutely zero side growth. Unusual nose kind of reminds me of black licorice with punch.
> Going to pop the last 4 beans as soon as I get settled after the move.
> I'll then try topping them early and often to see if I can force some branching.
> ...


Looking good, can you recap what you're hoping to do and to achieve? There's so many pages now, it's hard to keep up


----------



## torontoke (Nov 20, 2016)

JDMase said:


> Looking good, can you recap what you're hoping to do and to achieve? There's so many pages now, it's hard to keep up


Lol I don't blame u
I started out trying a 6/18 flower schedule to see if the joe Pietri article from an old skunk magazine e article was full of shit or possible.
The 6/18 plants were disappointing and I tried 8/16 next and have stuck with it. Next I switched to using 12:1 for veg and then 8/16 to flower and this is were I journal it and have people tell me it won't work or that the potentcy will be crap.
And that is the Coles notes version lol
I guess the goal is maximum efficiency as I'm not a cash cropper.
I try to grow as much "good" stuff as possible for as cheap as possible with as little energy usage as possible.


----------



## JDMase (Nov 20, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Lol I don't blame u
> I started out trying a 6/18 flower schedule to see if the joe Pietri article from an old skunk magazine e article was full of shit or possible.
> The 6/18 plants were disappointing and I tried 8/16 next and have stuck with it. Next I switched to using 12:1 for veg and then 8/16 to flower and this is were I journal it and have people tell me it won't work or that the potentcy will be crap.
> And that is the Coles notes version lol
> ...


It sounds reasonable, if my outdoors ones hadnt had mould they would've been on an 8/16 and there's a bloke in Ireland that grew some massive plants right up to the end of last month. Most of the flowering would've been less than 12 hours by September time I believe. I think it's worth a go. 
I have wondered if 12/12 is the holy grail it's made out to be.. Most people say 24/0 works for autos but every one of mine hated it. 
I think the best thing we can do is imitate nature!


----------



## torontoke (Nov 20, 2016)

JDMase said:


> It sounds reasonable, if my outdoors ones hadnt had mould they would've been on an 8/16 and there's a bloke in Ireland that grew some massive plants right up to the end of last month. Most of the flowering would've been less than 12 hours by September time I believe. I think it's worth a go.
> I have wondered if 12/12 is the holy grail it's made out to be.. Most people say 24/0 works for autos but every one of mine hated it.
> I think the best thing we can do is imitate nature!


That's my belief aswell
I hate when old diehard growers say it won't work because we are supposed to mimic the sun! Where on earth is the sun out 12/12 consistently for 60-70days cus fuk the plants I'd move there and live off of solar.
I've smoked up many a naysayer over the last little while and they start to listen once their eyes start to close.
12/12 is not the only way


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

torontoke said:


> That's my belief aswell
> I hate when old diehard growers say it won't work because we are supposed to mimic the sun! Where on earth is the sun out 12/12 consistently for 60-70days cus fuk the plants I'd move there and live off of solar.
> I've smoked up many a naysayer over the last little while and they start to listen once their eyes start to close.
> 12/12 is not the only way


Pack your solar panels and move- to the equator. 12/12 or very nearly so year round.

That said, you already know I think your work is valuable.

Plus, the way you have your schedules set up, you'd only need to run off battery power for the thirty to sixty minutes for the gaslight interval in veg at night. All the rest can easily be handled by solar.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Pack your solar panels and move- to the equator. 12/12 or very nearly so year round.
> 
> That said, you already know I think your work is valuable.
> 
> Plus, the way you have your schedules set up, you'd only need to run off battery power for the thirty to sixty minutes for the gaslight interval in veg at night. All the rest can easily be handled by solar.


Lol thanks tty
I like being called out on my exaggerations lol
Yes I'm sure there's a few places on the planet lucky enough to get actual 12/12 but it doesn't change my perspective that using that as a starting point for arguing schedules is illogical and a tad short sighted.
I'm glad u find what I do valuable and I feel the same watching you push boundaries with what u do but my days of arguing and trying to sell people are done. 
There are a billion people out there and every single one thinks they are smarter then the guy next them.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 20, 2016)

Day 20 of 8/16
I'll try to get some better pics once the lights come on later


----------



## torontoke (Nov 20, 2016)

Looks like it's going to be low potentcy stuff tho


----------



## andy s (Nov 20, 2016)

Looks good my man why wouldn't people wanna save some money and maintain potency doubt you'll lose potency! Sounds great to me. Losing a couple grams for some tighter frostier buds isn't anything to complain about. That would be the only drawback if that's what people were concerned about. As long as I get some bomb I feel it's worth my time. I'll be following Bc I've debated doing 10 hours this run to save some money but if 8 works in game


----------



## JDMase (Nov 20, 2016)

My belief is that slowly reducing hours towards the end of the cycle would speed up flowering times, as in nature shorter days mean less time to reproduce, right?. I read about it previously and since then I've wanted to try it. When I next run photos im going to give it a go. I think maybe reducing an hour a day from your 20/4 or 18/6 down to your 12/12 then to something like an 8/16 once flowering is underway.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

JDMase said:


> My belief is that slowly reducing hours towards the end of the cycle would speed up flowering times, as in nature shorter days mean less time to reproduce, right?. I read about it previously and since then I've wanted to try it. When I next run photos im going to give it a go. I think maybe reducing an hour a day from your 20/4 or 18/6 down to your 12/12 then to something like an 8/16 once flowering is underway.


I see no advantage to a slow transition. I've tried it, just got less yield. 

I'm interested in an 8 hour high intensity day cycle and 16 hour dark because of the possible three way split of a given amp load. If yield loss is low vs 12/12 then maybe this is an efficiency boosting tactic.


----------



## haulinbass (Nov 20, 2016)

I tried something like this a few years ago but was doing 8 hr days and nights but abandoned it do to having to manually control the lights. couldn't find a countdown timer to flip the lights every 8 hours. the plants were flowering but no idea if the flowering cycle could be done 1/3rd faster which was the original point of the experiment.
Glad to see others trying there own experiments with light cycles


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2016)

haulinbass said:


> I tried something like this a few years ago but was doing 8 hr days and nights but abandoned it do to having to manually control the lights. couldn't find a countdown timer to flip the lights every 8 hours. the plants were flowering but no idea if the flowering cycle could be done 1/3rd faster which was the original point of the experiment.
> Glad to see others trying there own experiments with light cycles


There are now cycle timers that will support schedules other than 24 hours. 

Whether it would accelerate the blooming process is a fascinating question!


----------



## torontoke (Nov 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There are now cycle timers that will support schedules other than 24 hours.
> 
> Whether it would accelerate the blooming process is a fascinating question!


There is no question anymore sir.
I am now 100% convinced
Using glr then switching to 8/16 I save at least a week in the transition time alone.
Plus the quicker flowering shaving another handful of days I'd say I should trim 10-14days earlier then if I was doing 18/6 then 12/12.
Now whether these numbers would work with your vert setup is another question all together.

Give me a month or two and stay tuned. I got a few new ideas to put into play and we shall see what happens. The experiment is being up sized a lil bit


----------



## JDMase (Nov 21, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I see no advantage to a slow transition. I've tried it, just got less yield.
> 
> I'm interested in an 8 hour high intensity day cycle and 16 hour dark because of the possible three way split of a given amp load. If yield loss is low vs 12/12 then maybe this is an efficiency boosting tactic.


Ah that's a shame, I had heard it sped up the flowering transition, limiting shock?


----------



## JDMase (Nov 21, 2016)

torontoke said:


> There is no question anymore sir.
> I am now 100% convinced
> Using glr then switching to 8/16 I save at least a week in the transition time alone.
> Plus the quicker flowering shaving another handful of days I'd say I should trim 10-14days earlier then if I was doing 18/6 then 12/12.
> ...


Would these light cycles be effective with auto flowers? I know people say they do their own thing regardless of light cycles but surely they must react to them?


----------



## torontoke (Nov 21, 2016)

JDMase said:


> Ah that's a shame, I had heard it sped up the flowering transition, limiting shock?


No I think that diminishing light cycle would have minimal effect. I just go from 12:1 to 8/16
No slow decrease the plants start to pre flower under 12:1 and then as soon as I flip they start to flower big time. Within a day or two full on flower mode


----------



## torontoke (Nov 21, 2016)

JDMase said:


> Would these light cycles be effective with auto flowers? I know people say they do their own thing regardless of light cycles but surely they must react to them?


Highly doubtful
Autos are a whole different animal altogether. I have never tried an auto flower under anything but 18/6 and I was not impressed so I'd never run another.
I hear people say all the time that they have gotten better but half the plants genetics are crap imo and I don't have the time or patience to grow plants that should be half good


----------



## torontoke (Nov 21, 2016)

Atf X ssdd
Day 21
 

D cure 
Day21


----------



## torontoke (Nov 22, 2016)

Removed the shelf separating the cab to give these girls a lil more headroom.
22 days and they already want to fall over on themselves.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 22, 2016)

JDMase said:


> Would these light cycles be effective with auto flowers? I know people say they do their own thing regardless of light cycles but surely they must react to them?


No. Not for an auto. You need at least 18 for them and I prefer 19 myself. I run the light on times broken up. So the light is never on more than 6 hours without a break. 

Mid day depression. Anytime you can give them a break even for a few minutes helps.


----------



## JDMase (Nov 22, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> No. Not for an auto. You need at least 18 for them and I prefer 19 myself. I run the light on times broken up. So the light is never on more than 6 hours without a break.
> 
> Mid day depression. Anytime you can give them a break even for a few minutes helps.


I've never heard that. Is that autos specifically or cannabis in general? 

And as an example on a 18/6 you would turn off the light for an hour or a couple minutes every 6 hours? 
So 6:1:6:1:6:6 
Onffnffnff repeat.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 22, 2016)

JDMase said:


> I've never heard that. Is that autos specifically or cannabis in general?
> 
> And as an example on a 18/6 you would turn off the light for an hour or a couple minutes every 6 hours?
> So 6:1:6:1:6:6
> Onffnffnff repeat.


Any plant. Ever notice after a hot long day they are droopy?

Keep it at 24 hours. I have a timer that you push tabs down. 30 min increments. So 48 tabs. For 19/5 I need 10 tabs not pushed. 

you could do 5/1, 5/1, 5/1, 5/1. That would equal a 24 hours day. It doesn't have to be exact. My autos do fine and I have some vegging under the same schedule.

I see faster growth.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 22, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Any plant. Ever notice after a hot long day they are droopy?
> 
> Keep it at 24 hours. I have a timer that you push tabs down. 30 min increments. So 48 tabs. For 19/5 I need 10 tabs not pushed.
> 
> ...


I run 6 on and 2 off three times a day. Do you think cycling even faster is better?


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I run 6 on and 2 off three times a day. Do you think cycling even faster is better?


I'm not sure. I would have to run some at those intervals and see. I reckon there wouldn't be much difference in the 6/2 or 5/1.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 22, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> I'm not sure. I would have to run some at those intervals and see. I reckon there wouldn't be much difference in the 6/2 or 5/1.


There's an extra 'day' cycle and the dark period is substantially shorter. I think the boost is due to avoiding a mid day depression, but that's only someone's guess that sounds right to me.


----------



## JDMase (Nov 23, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> Any plant. Ever notice after a hot long day they are droopy?
> 
> Keep it at 24 hours. I have a timer that you push tabs down. 30 min increments. So 48 tabs. For 19/5 I need 10 tabs not pushed.
> 
> ...


I'm going to give that a go, I've got it on 20/4 already for my autos, but I think this will also help with my heat issues. 

How much faster? Can you quantify it or is it just a general observation?


----------



## whitebb2727 (Nov 23, 2016)

JDMase said:


> I'm going to give that a go, I've got it on 20/4 already for my autos, but I think this will also help with my heat issues.
> 
> How much faster? Can you quantify it or is it just a general observation?


General observation. It will help with heat.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 23, 2016)

whitebb2727 said:


> General observation. It will help with heat.


I second this. It helps both overheating and with things getting too cold.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 25, 2016)

Day 25 update 
Been busy packing and slowly moving. Getting pumped about upsizing.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 25, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Day 25 updateView attachment 3839134 View attachment 3839135
> Been busy packing and slowly moving. Getting pumped about upsizing.


I'd love to hear about your new place!


----------



## torontoke (Nov 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'd love to hear about your new place!


Nothing special
Not my dream home that's for sure dude. But I can finally set up a bigger area and use my experiment cab to veg. I have another cab to start seedlings and hopefully my lawyers get my money by February and I'm buying a house for the sole purpose of using the entire basement.
I'm allowed 30 plants now and I have two friend that are allowed 38 and 45 plants so by next spring I will have at least 100 going.
Thinking I might run a wall with your vert technique.

You might want to consider a visit north next summer lol preferably around trim time lol


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 25, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Nothing special
> Not my dream home that's for sure dude. But I can finally set up a bigger area and use my experiment cab to veg. I have another cab to start seedlings and hopefully my lawyers get my money by February and I'm buying a house for the sole purpose of using the entire basement.
> I'm allowed 30 plants now and I have two friend that are allowed 38 and 45 plants so by next spring I will have at least 100 going.
> Thinking I might run a wall with your vert technique.
> ...


Vertical walls do very well perpetual style.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Vertical walls do very well perpetual style.


So I have seen sir


----------



## torontoke (Nov 25, 2016)

I was looking at old crap on my old laptop and drooling over the old Heath Robinson posts on icmag 
Maybe a wall of vert and the other wall big ass tubes.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 25, 2016)

torontoke said:


> So I have seen sir


When you grow plants that can net a full kilo, I suggest you set aside a full day with a couple of mates. Each. Helps to do perpetual because then you can spread the work out.


----------



## torontoke (Nov 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> When you grow plants that can net a full kilo, I suggest you set aside a full day with a couple of mates. Each. Helps to do perpetual because then you can spread the work out.


You need a better system for trimming. Lol
I shouldn't overshare but I'm high af and it's a funny story that fits.
Years ago I used to run big numbers outside and one summer I harvested way more then I expected to make it. Like 5 hockey bags full of just "good bud" or tops, no way I was trimming it all alone and I didn't trust any of my friends. Decided to get a cheap motel room and hired 3 young ladies of the evening. Flat fee for the night and paid them half in cash half in bud.
I don't remember fukin them but it might have happened.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 25, 2016)

torontoke said:


> You need a better system for trimming. Lol
> I shouldn't overshare but I'm high af and it's a funny story that fits.
> Years ago I used to run big numbers outside and one summer I harvested way more then I expected to make it. Like 5 hockey bags full of just "good bud" or tops, no way I was trimming it all alone and I didn't trust any of my friends. Decided to get a cheap motel room and hired 3 young ladies of the evening. Flat fee for the night and paid them half in cash half in bud.
> I don't remember fukin them but it might have happened.


NICE! Might have to try that! Did the girls enjoy themselves?


----------



## torontoke (Nov 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> NICE! Might have to try that! Did the girls enjoy themselves?


They all complained their eyes were sticky by the morning


----------



## torontoke (Nov 28, 2016)

Day 29


----------



## torontoke (Dec 3, 2016)

Still unpacking and doing a few smaller mods to the cabinets.
Going to leave the two I currently have going in the cab to finish.
Starting another batch of seeds and they will go into the smaller veg cab til these two are done.
Then I'll cycle in the nicest of these seedlings after taking cuts.
Going to try to get my perpetual game on.
Here's the next batchGoing to look at a litter of dogs tomorrow and I'm super pumped.
Always wanted a dog but wasn't allowed in any former apartments.
Wish me luck on being able to pick one.


----------



## torontoke (Dec 4, 2016)

Apparently I'll have something else growing this year. I'm so excited


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 5, 2016)

Changed timer in veg for 12:1. I gleaned that a couple folks designed flips for 8/16. where should I look for these? Again great read!


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Changed timer in veg for 12:1. I gleaned that a couple folks designed flips for 8/16. where should I look for these? Again great read!


You're here!


----------



## Dirty Hippie (Dec 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> You need a better system for trimming. Lol
> I shouldn't overshare but I'm high af and it's a funny story that fits.
> Years ago I used to run big numbers outside and one summer I harvested way more then I expected to make it. Like 5 hockey bags full of just "good bud" or tops, no way I was trimming it all alone and I didn't trust any of my friends. Decided to get a cheap motel room and hired 3 young ladies of the evening. Flat fee for the night and paid them half in cash half in bud.
> I don't remember fukin them but it might have happened.


LOL, nothing like some Sherbourne help, or did you get them at hooker harvey's. I'd trust friends over ladies of the night. Good story though.


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You're here!


Have you made the 8/16 leap?


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Have you made the 8/16 leap?


No, I'm still doing the boring old 12/12.


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 5, 2016)

Mr.Head said:


> do it. Mine cost me about $400-450 CAD but my god is it impressing me. Haven't flowered yet but great growth on everything. Wago's make it STUPID easy. If you go with Vero's and the Molex connectors it's like lego easy lol.
> 
> Seedlings are doing killer under it. lights 3.5-4 feet above them. I always seemed to have one side of my seedlings grow faster then the others under my HPS and CFL's I had to rotate twice a day to get proper growth in my space. This Vero29 rig has them doing great and I have a cramped space right now with lots of veggies going.
> 
> I went with Vero 29's and CEN-100-42> Expensive to get the parts here from Cali (Jameco) but it was sooo worth it.  I went with the 1 Driver per cob so I can take one off the rig and have a veg light.


Do you have a build thread on this?


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 5, 2016)

My harvest master pro has the 6/18 preset would prefer the 8.


----------



## torontoke (Dec 5, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Have you made the 8/16 leap?


I think I'm one of the only few on riu running anything less than 10/14

A lot of folks are using 12:1 or glr for veg but that's less risky to the average grower.


----------



## torontoke (Dec 5, 2016)

Dirty Hippie said:


> LOL, nothing like some Sherbourne help, or did you get them at hooker harvey's. I'd trust friends over ladies of the night. Good story though.


Lol u must have trustworthy friends.
Most people I know would charge more then those ladies and not as fun to watch either lol
And the weren't from sherbourne or hooker Harvey's lol back pages dot com.


----------



## Dirty Hippie (Dec 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Lol u must have trustworthy friends.
> Most people I know would charge more then those ladies and not as fun to watch either lol
> And the weren't from sherbourne or hooker Harvey's lol back pages dot com.


lol nice. I give friends $25 and hour plus all they can smoke while trimming.


----------



## torontoke (Dec 5, 2016)

Dirty Hippie said:


> lol nice. I give friends $25 and hour plus all they can smoke while trimming.


I'm to giving of a person and usually give away too much.
Haven't needed help in a lil while now tho.
I actually like trimming and find it relaxing. Throw a hockey game on and I can sit for hours and I'm the only person that trims up to my expectations.


----------



## Dirty Hippie (Dec 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> I'm to giving of a person and usually give away too much.
> Haven't needed help in a lil while now tho.
> I actually like trimming and find it relaxing. Throw a hockey game on and I can sit for hours and I'm the only person that trims up to my expectations.


I used to work trimming full time, 12 hour days. Sucked ass. Money was good and I could smoke all day but it just got tedious. I out source my help now. My mom and brother are my first choice, then I will call friends. You got some nice beans there. popping all at once?


----------



## HandyGringo (Dec 5, 2016)

Can't really be bothered reading through 47 pages. TLR, did it work?


----------



## torontoke (Dec 5, 2016)

Dirty Hippie said:


> I used to work trimming full time, 12 hour days. Sucked ass. Money was good and I could smoke all day but it just got tedious. I out source my help now. My mom and brother are my first choice, then I will call friends. You got some nice beans there. popping all at once?


Thanks
I hope so
Should find out how many pop in a day or two


----------



## torontoke (Dec 5, 2016)

HandyGringo said:


> Can't really be bothered reading through 47 pages. TLR, did it work?


works for me


----------



## HandyGringo (Dec 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> works for me


Did it make a difference?


----------



## torontoke (Dec 5, 2016)

HandyGringo said:


> Did it make a difference?


Does what make a difference?
I'm not sure what exactly your asking or what u know about my thread.


----------



## HandyGringo (Dec 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Does what make a difference?
> I'm not sure what exactly your asking or what u know about my thread.


I'm asking about the 8 hour flowering instead of 12 hour, if it made any noticeable difference..


----------



## torontoke (Dec 5, 2016)

HandyGringo said:


> I'm asking about the 8 hour flowering instead of 12 hour, if it made any noticeable difference..


Yes
I noticed that my light is only on for 8 hours instead of 12
Using glr for veg then 8/16 the plants transition to flower is immediate. So is trichome production. 
After dialling everything in and attempting a much larger plant count I'm hopeful that I will harvest 90% of a typical 18/6 12/12 grow using 35% less energy


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> I think I'm one of the only few on riu running anything less than 10/14
> 
> A lot of folks are using 12:1 or glr for veg but that's less risky to the average grower.


I'm running 6 on and 2 off three times a day in my prebloom veg and they sure seem to like it.


----------



## torontoke (Dec 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm running 6 on and 2 off three times a day in my prebloom veg and they sure seem to like it.


Thats awesome
I'm not surprised at all.
I think the first thing I've learnt is that there's still so much to learn and try.
I bet that schedule would sure help a lot of people dealing with heat issues. Plus it would make the narcs at the power company go wtf


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Thats awesome
> I'm not surprised at all.
> I think the first thing I've learnt is that there's still so much to learn and try.
> I bet that schedule would sure help a lot of people dealing with heat issues. Plus it would make the narcs at the power company go wtf


Fortunately I live in Colorado and the local power company has made it clear they aren't interested in being an unpaid arm of law enforcement.


----------



## torontoke (Dec 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fortunately I live in Colorado and the local power company has made it clear they aren't interested in being an unpaid arm of law enforcement.


Your op is legal anyway but there's still a lot of underground guys risking their freedom.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 5, 2016)

torontoke said:


> Your op is legal anyway but there's still a lot of underground guys risking their freedom.


And I used to be one of them, so I feel their pain. 

The only reason this plant is still illegal is MONEY.


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 6, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Changed timer in veg for 12:1. I gleaned that a couple folks designed flips for 8/16. where should I look for these? Again great read!


Here we are 24ish hours later.. my plants reacted by dancing in the dark. Leaves raised to the heavens in thanks.


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 6, 2016)

I have a COB LED rack that acts like it's over powered. If I had a place to install it by itself I'd use that high intensity to try an 8/16 bloom cycle. I suspect the combination would produce some very interesting results.


----------



## torontoke (Dec 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I have a COB LED rack that acts like it's over powered. If I had a place to install it by itself I'd use that high intensity to try an 8/16 bloom cycle. I suspect the combination would produce some very interesting results.


I suspect you would be correct.
Interesting for sure
I haven't been lying or exaggerating anything sir. I gain nothing no matter 
How another person chooses to grow.


----------



## torontoke (Dec 6, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Here we are 24ish hours later.. my plants reacted by dancing in the dark. Leaves raised to the heavens in thanks.


That's awesome
What strain you got going?


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 6, 2016)

Some Jack h x nl13


----------



## ttystikk (Dec 6, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Some Jack h x nl13


Keep this up and I'm gonna go back to RDWC LOL


----------



## pinner420 (Dec 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Keep this up and I'm gonna go back to RDWC LOL


I'm excited to taste the difference in tupur though.


----------



## shrxhky420 (Dec 6, 2016)

Fuck man!!! Took me 3 fkn days to get through this piece of shit thread!!! Fuck you TT. 
LMFAO!!!
I started 12/1 a little over 2 weeks ago. Last time we chatted I told you I hadn't noticed a difference, in fact I almost bounced out like tty did...
I came home from work today and suddenly noticed tighter nodal spacing and much more preflowers... the gelato moms don't know what to make of it... the new growth loves it the older growth is just confused...
I can't wait to see what it does for transition times!!! Your flowers inspired the 12/1 switch (the ones I saw a little over 2 weeks ago).
Last night I switched to 11/13 in the den. I'm too pussy to go 8. I'm pretty sure I'll end up at 10/14.
Money's been tight so I had to dip into my led fund... in time.
My gelato, is kicking major ass right now!!! 
You know where I'll be. I'll have an update there 
Take care of yourself brother!
Before I split from here and none of you hear from me again...
I value your opinion a lot and appreciate the work you've done for everyone and for me! I know you don't need a cheerleader but I'm a fan!... I'm gonna keep picking your brain on things. Keep up the good fight, you're an inspiration!
Hurry up and buy your cob you fkr!

SH420


----------



## torontoke (Dec 7, 2016)

shrxhky420 said:


> Fuck man!!! Took me 3 fkn days to get through this piece of shit thread!!! Fuck you TT.
> LMFAO!!!
> I started 12/1 a little over 2 weeks ago. Last time we chatted I told you I hadn't noticed a difference, in fact I almost bounced out like tty did...
> I came home from work today and suddenly noticed tighter nodal spacing and much more preflowers... the gelato moms don't know what to make of it... the new growth loves it the older growth is just confused...
> ...


Your to kind sir 
I'm glad you stuck with it and I'm happy to report the cob build should be finished by New Years.I'm aiming to have the next round flowering under led. 
Hasn't been money keeping me from the upgrade so much as the time and the fact that my life has been hectic with the move and what I had going on up north.
Add the new pup to the mix and it makes for a busy me.


----------



## torontoke (Dec 8, 2016)

Day37 of 8/16

Next round in solos


----------



## torontoke (Dec 9, 2016)

So far only one didn't break the surface.
9 are in jiffys and hempy cups
The rest are in promix w myco and added perlite
I'm going to put 5 more seeds in paper towel and they are going in rock wool cubes and dwc totes.
Should make for an interesting side by side


----------



## torontoke (Jan 5, 2017)

Dank Sinatra f2's
Goji og X dank Sinatra 
 
Ssh X dank Sinatra 


Also have 4 grandpas breath and 3 space phantoms going but forgot to take pics of them when I had them out.
Guy at my local hydro store loved me today. New tent, new fan/filter speed controller and nutes.
These are getting 3-4weeks of 12;1 then flowering.
The perpetual is on hopefully 

Ordered more beans today too
Still waiting on heat sink stock from cob kits and then the new tent is getting cobs.
6 citi 1818's


----------



## pinner420 (Jan 5, 2017)

So I did leave my veg timing and it took 2.5 or 3 weeks but the girls settled in nicely and are very happy. Didn't change flower as it was -16 this past couple weeks so flower is unchanged; so as the Temps get more reasonable I'll be ready to test the density of my nugs on your 10on theory.....


----------



## torontoke (Jan 6, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> So I did leave my veg timing and it took 2.5 or 3 weeks but the girls settled in nicely and are very happy. Didn't change flower as it was -16 this past couple weeks so flower is unchanged; so as the Temps get more reasonable I'll be ready to test the density of my nugs on your 10on theory.....


So what schedule are you using for veg now?
And what exactly is my 10 on theory?


----------



## torontoke (Jan 13, 2017)

Topped the babies yet again and will be throwing them in the new tent over the weekend.
Still waiting for a restock of cob parts to be able to order 
So they go under the 400 turned down for hopefully two weeks or less.
I'll pop 12 more beans over the weekend too.
Just gotta decide which ones


----------



## torontoke (Jan 18, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Jan 23, 2017)

Ok so just a quick update 
I moved the 7 plants in 2gals into the experiment cab for now.
Got them under 12:1 for approx a week now.

I have officially thrown in the towel on building a cob light.
No single part supplier had everything in stock, either sold out of cobs or got cobs but no pin fins.
I tried and was super excited to try them but I'm not begging anyone to take my money.

I have however been reading a lot about quantum boards and after the brief convo with tty I contacted robin at northern and he told me he is getting a restock shortly and will sell me a whole package. Hopefully a couple boards and sinks driver and even wiring.
If the build goes well and I like what I see I'll build another and change the cabinet too.

Also thinking about starting another large whack of seeds to get ready for spring. Thinking by the end of February steady seedlings should turn into some big girls by mid May to go outside this summer


----------



## GroErr (Jan 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ok so just a quick update
> I moved the 7 plants in 2gals into the experiment cab for now.
> Got them under 12:1 for approx a week now.
> 
> ...


Pain in the ass trying to get components here isn't it? That's why I went pre-built with the Tasty's. Been keeping an eye on a couple of Quantum grows and the tech looks legit, hope that pans out for you, should be as good or better than COBs for flowering.


----------



## torontoke (Jan 24, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Pain in the ass trying to get components here isn't it? That's why I went pre-built with the Tasty's. Been keeping an eye on a couple of Quantum grows and the tech looks legit, hope that pans out for you, should be as good or better than COBs for flowering.


Was super frustrating!
Especially when I saw all the cob components go on super sale for xmas yet no one had any stock.
No exaggeration I started pming and emailing at the beginning of December.
Hopefully the quantum stock isn't the same story.
I hate waiting to give someone my money.


----------



## torontoke (Jan 31, 2017)

Still no word on the quantum boards I've left emails and pm's.
Something better pan out soon or I'll just buy an lec and be done with it.
I've got way to many plants vegging to keep waiting.


----------



## GroErr (Feb 1, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Still no word on the quantum boards I've left emails and pm's.
> Something better pan out soon or I'll just buy an lec and be done with it.
> I've got way to many plants vegging to keep waiting.


That's strange those guys seem to be responsive on the forums anyhow. They're hanging out in this forum below quite a bit, might get a faster response in there...
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-96


----------



## torontoke (Feb 1, 2017)

GroErr said:


> That's strange those guys seem to be responsive on the forums anyhow. They're hanging out in this forum below quite a bit, might get a faster response in there...
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-96


Boards and heat sink ordered.
Now I just need to order the driver tomorrow and hopefully by next week it's built

Still doodling design ideas and deciding whether to fuse the power cord or not.


----------



## GroErr (Feb 1, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Boards and heat sink ordered.
> Now I just need to order the driver tomorrow and hopefully by next week it's built
> 
> Still doodling design ideas and deciding whether to fuse the power cord or not.


Good stuff, those lights look great, should produce some quality bud.


----------



## Kevin Pickford (Feb 1, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No prob
> Im super excited by the idea because as far as i can see this could be a game changer for everyone if it actually works.
> 
> Fingers crossed.
> They have been under 6/18 for almost a week so only 7 more to go hopefully lol


I like the experiment!


----------



## torontoke (Feb 1, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Good stuff, those lights look great, should produce some quality bud.


There's always the chance I fuk it up too.
Hopefully those boards don't mind whacky schedules


----------



## whitebb2727 (Feb 1, 2017)

Going cob. Nice.

Think I'm about to do the same. I will run t5 and cob.


----------



## Kevin Pickford (Feb 1, 2017)

I'm not saying anything... but I just wonder how bad she gonna stretch... every strain is different.. but wouldn't be surprised to see some inches between nodes... but Only in the effort of science will we ever know lol!


----------



## torontoke (Feb 1, 2017)

Kevin Pickford said:


> I'm not saying anything... but I just wonder how bad she gonna stretch... every strain is different.. but wouldn't be surprised to see some inches between nodes... but Only in the effort of science will we ever know lol!


GLR packs nodes super tight so some stretch would actually be welcomed.
Your right tho only one way to find out.


----------



## GroErr (Feb 1, 2017)

torontoke said:


> There's always the chance I fuk it up too.
> Hopefully those boards don't mind whacky schedules


They'll be fine, less light but better quality, should do well.

I get a lot of stretch under the COBs but less than CMH. I switch from blurple LED's in veg and that triggers a pretty good stretch which I like for the same reason you ,mention. They come in very tight nodes, opening them up is not a bad thing.


----------



## Kevin Pickford (Feb 1, 2017)

torontoke said:


> GLR packs nodes super tight so some stretch would actually be welcomed.
> Your right tho only one way to find out.


Thanks for sharing and can't wait for the pics.. truly fun to see some people still trying different techs on their ladies!


----------



## torontoke (Feb 1, 2017)

Not much to see right now.
I'll post a pic of everything before i flip. But I'll probably throw a few up of the light build too


----------



## torontoke (Feb 2, 2017)

Driver is ordered and on the way too

Exciting times

Now the race is on what gets shipped here first. The seeds the quantums or the driver

Online shopping is bad for the wallet


----------



## Kevin Pickford (Feb 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Driver is ordered and on the way too
> 
> Exciting times
> 
> ...


Just blew my tax return on supplies lol.. oh well.. one of the only good investments I've found over the past 20 years that actually gets a realistic return or savings on $.. if your'e a burner lol!


----------



## whitebb2727 (Feb 2, 2017)

Kevin Pickford said:


> Just blew my tax return on supplies lol.. oh well.. one of the only good investments I've found over the past 20 years that actually gets a realistic return or savings on $.. if your'e a burner lol!


Lol. I'm fixing to do the same.

Diy cob kit. Maybe timber or cobkits.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 2, 2017)

Kevin Pickford said:


> Just blew my tax return on supplies lol.. oh well.. one of the only good investments I've found over the past 20 years that actually gets a realistic return or savings on $.. if your'e a burner lol!


I burn a lil bit !



whitebb2727 said:


> Lol. I'm fixing to do the same.
> 
> Diy cob kit. Maybe timber or cobkits.


Good luck sir
I was fixing to go citi cobs but I got tired of being dicked around for two months.
Hopefully you find that path less bumpy then I did


----------



## Kevin Pickford (Feb 2, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> Lol. I'm fixing to do the same.
> 
> Diy cob kit. Maybe timber or cobkits.


Upgrade time!


----------



## whitebb2727 (Feb 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I burn a lil bit !
> 
> 
> Good luck sir
> ...


Who did you go through?

Cobkits.com seemed to.have a good standing here.

I was thinking about getting in the 300 watt timber Cree kit. Mix it with 4 of my t5 bulbs.

516 watts in my cab.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Feb 2, 2017)

Kevin Pickford said:


> Upgrade time!


It will be a hybrid t5/ cob light.

I got to keep the pure par and 10,000k+uva bulbs. Makes for frosty buds.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 2, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> Who did you go through?
> 
> Cobkits.com seemed to.have a good standing here.
> 
> ...


Cobkits never had the cobs or heatsinks in stock at the same time.
Told me he had tons even put up a discounted X mas discount on but never had stock on his site so I could never order.
I ordered quantum boards from northern grow lights.
And a driver from arrow electronics.
Should be 240watts at the wall.


----------



## Kevin Pickford (Feb 2, 2017)

I use an 8 t5 3000&7200 Bulb kit over the new girls that come in and then slide them under the 600hps after 3 weeks still getting the supplemental from the t5 kit... but I'm always looking for the next project!


----------



## whitebb2727 (Feb 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Cobkits never had the cobs or heatsinks in stock at the same time.
> Told me he had tons even put up a discounted X mas discount on but never had stock on his site so I could never order.
> I ordered quantum boards from northern grow lights.
> And a driver from arrow electronics.
> Should be 240watts at the wall.


I like the looks of those quantum boards.

Thought about getting a couple for my veg cab.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 2, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> I like the looks of those quantum boards.
> 
> Thought about getting a couple for my veg cab.


They come in different specs for veg. Both and flower.
$75 a board and up to 150watts each.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Cobkits never had the cobs or heatsinks in stock at the same time.
> Told me he had tons even put up a discounted X mas discount on but never had stock on his site so I could never order.
> I ordered quantum boards from northern grow lights.
> And a driver from arrow electronics.
> Should be 240watts at the wall.


I think you will be very pleased.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 2, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> I like the looks of those quantum boards.
> 
> Thought about getting a couple for my veg cab.


They work well for veg, but even better for bloom.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 2, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I think you will be very pleased.


I think so too
I've been drawing up frames and trying to decide how to put it all together for a couple days.

Are your driver plugs fused?


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I think so too
> I've been drawing up frames and trying to decide how to put it all together for a couple days.
> 
> Are your driver plugs fused?


No idea.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 2, 2017)

Lol thanks tty
Guess I'll figure something out


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol thanks tty
> Guess I'll figure something out


If you mean there's a fuse on the circuit, no. That's what the breaker is for. I think the unit has some electronics designed to save it, but I'm not sure how they work.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 2, 2017)

I asked robin and he basically said I could fuse it if I wanted too.
Seemed like a good idea to me but apparently not necessary.
I think I'm going to look into fusing it for an extra level of safety.

Think I'm going to design it so the driver could be mounted on the frame or removed from the frame if necessary. Wire is fairly cheap


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I asked robin and he basically said I could fuse it if I wanted too.
> Seemed like a good idea to me but apparently not necessary.
> I think I'm going to look into fusing it for an extra level of safety.
> 
> Think I'm going to design it so the driver could be mounted on the frame or removed from the frame if necessary. Wire is fairly cheap


I have diligently tried to make all of my modules fully interchangeable. This way I can cheaply cannibalize and keep the maximum number running.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 2, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I have diligently tried to make all of my modules fully interchangeable. This way I can cheaply cannibalize and keep the maximum number running.


It's come in very handy. I have 53 modules and have been able to cannibalize enough to keep at least 48 running.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 2, 2017)

Sux that you even have to but handy that you can


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Sux that you even have to but handy that you can


Well I expected it. I'm running water cooled units and that's a big step towards the bleeding edge from where most people go. I expected some units to quit and now I know why they did. 

I'm building a 54th unit so I can run 3 modules per trellis panel times 6 panels per rack times 3 racks even.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 3, 2017)

Lol I'm running less total wattage then your fans lol

No race on delivery of parts.
Came home to the driver being here sitting on my front step.
Arrow electronics is no joke.
Packing slip even says ordered feb2 
Crazy
Been like 30hrs since I ordered it.
Wish all deliveries had that kind of turn around


----------



## Kevin Pickford (Feb 5, 2017)

Every day..just another day... closer to harvest  stay high like the times my RIU CREW! Cheers 2017!


----------



## torontoke (Feb 10, 2017)

Quantum boards are assembled and on.
Was good to have a few quiet days to do some actual work.
I'm 100% sure I waited to long to flip any of these but too late to cry about it now.

I'll post pics soon as I can but there's a couple that I have pretty high hopes for. A couple ssh X ds and atf X ssdd are some of the nicest plants I've had in a long time.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 13, 2017)

Getting a bit nervous
Been waiting on an order from Great Lakes genetics for over a week.
Been at Chicago customs since Wednesday.
Still don't understand why it had to go Michigan to Michigan to Chicago to come north.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 13, 2017)

I'm not going to go into it too much but so far I'm super impressed with the growth already after two days with the qb's.
I'll be ordering 2 more and building another light for the tent.
Total cabinet wattage including fans is below 300


----------



## GroErr (Feb 13, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Getting a bit nervous
> Been waiting on an order from Great Lakes genetics for over a week.
> Been at Chicago customs since Wednesday.
> Still don't understand why it had to go Michigan to Michigan to Chicago to come north.


Good luck, hope it gets through for you, I haven't ordered anything from outside the country since last fall so no idea whether they've tightened up checks or not. Good news is I've only ever had one shipment seized out of maybe 30, just got a note from customs in the mail a few weeks after it was supposed to arrive. That was about 2 years ago, never heard anything after that.


----------



## GroErr (Feb 13, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm not going to go into it too much but so far I'm super impressed with the growth already after two days with the qb's.
> I'll be ordering 2 more and building another light for the tent.
> Total cabinet wattage including fans is below 300


Nice, small footprint with lots of photons, nothing wrong with that. Keeping an eye on these QB's for some potential expansion...


----------



## torontoke (Feb 13, 2017)

Drag boat Jeff wasn't the friendliest nor easiest to converse with but he says its normal and can take up to a month to clear customs.
I just hope they don't all show up smashed to dust.
It was a fairly large order too.

And the qb's are worth it.
I'm not pulling out the Pom Poms and becoming a cheer leader but with what I've already seen I will order 2 more.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 25, 2017)

Glg order arrived and I popped
4 dream beaver
4 space monkey
4elfinstone
4 more cowbell
All are in 1 gal pots now and will be topped more then once. 
Quantums are in the flowering cabinet and are working awesome.
Had 3 of 6 plants show male so I had to throw in more plants.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)

Last day of mh


----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)

2nd day of quantum boards


----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)

Dank Sinatra


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 26, 2017)

Damn, those plants filled in overnight...


----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Damn, those plants filled in overnight...


Two nights but yeah
Big changes bud
I was able to remove the jet engine fan too lol


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 26, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Two nights but yeah
> Big changes bud
> I was able to remove the jet engine fan too lol


MH lighting is obsolete; you just went from back of the class to the front row, bro.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> MH lighting is obsolete; you just went from back of the class to the front row, bro.


Nah I prefer my seat at the back where I go unnoticed doin my own thing.


----------



## BobCajun (Feb 26, 2017)

This is a long thread so can you please recap how the yield and potency compared between the 6 and 12 hour photoperiods? In that article you posted images of they quoted from an early study that said hemp flowered fastest with a 6 hour day, but they didn't include the following part where it said "but growth was slower". I recall reading the full quote before. It was one of the first studies in how flowering works, by Julien Tournois.

I have also read that less than 12 hour days reduces potency. But it also said that it doesn't have to be 12 hours straight. Could be, for instance, 8 on 3 off 1 on 12 off. So you could save power that way.

BTW, here's an interesting article abstract I was just reading;



> 1. Flowering of hemp, Cannabis sativa L., variety Kentucky, occurred in all plants at photoperiods of 8-14 hours, inclusive. At photoperiods of 16-20 hours flowering was incomplete and greatly delayed. 2. Seedling plants 3-5 weeks old flowered within about 2 weeks when shifted from 16-hour to 8-hour photoperiods. Five-week-old plants required fewer 8-hour photoperiods than did 3-week-old plants for equal promotion of flowering. 3. When one branch of a two-branched plant was subjected to short photoperiods, the production of flowers was restricted to that branch. Temperatures as low as 55⚬ F. applied during the dark periods did not inhibit flowering. 4. Intensities of light from an incandescent-filament lamp greater than 0.03 ft-c. inhibited flower-bud initiation of hemp when applied daily during the 16-hour periods between successive 8-hour periods of natural light outdoors. 5. Pollination of female plants with pollen from male flowers produced on female plants resulted in seed that produced only female plants. This "female" seed was produced in such abundance that subsequent experiments were done with plants from this source. 6. The relative abundance of nitrogen in the nutrient solution did not greatly modify the extent to which male flowers were formed on female plants, but it influenced their rate of development. 7. Full intensity of natural light resulted in production of male flowers on a greater percentage of female plants than did lower intensities of natural light. 8. Transfer of plants from long photoperiods to photoperiods appreciably shorter than that critical for flowering resulted in production of male flowers on a greater percentage of female plants than occurred when they were transferred to photoperiods only slightly shorter than the critical one. 9. A low temperature during or immediately prior to photoperiodic induction resulted in more extensive production of male flowers on female plants than did a higher temperature. 10. The tendency of plants of certain female lines to form male flowers was significantly greater than that of plants of other lines, indicating that selection for abundant production of male flowers on female plants might be successful. 11. Detailed dissection of all the buds on plants that had failed to flower when grown on long photoperiods revealed the presence of a few floral primordia in the axils of certain fully expanded leaves. Both male and female flower buds were present in these positions, but they failed to continue development except when subjected to short photoperiods.
> http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/335843


An interesting thing there is that you can flower one branch by itself, unlike any other short day plant I know of.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> This is a long thread so can you please recap how the yield and potency compared between the 6 and 12 hour photoperiods? In that article you posted images of they quoted from an early study that said hemp flowered fastest with a 6 hour day, but they didn't include the following part where it said "but the yield was reduced". I recall reading the full quote before. It was one of the first studies in how flowering works. Don't recall the guy's name or anything.
> 
> I have also read that less than 12 hour days reduces potency. But it also said that it doesn't have to be 12 hours straight. Could be, for instance, 8 on 3 off 1 on 12 off. So you could save power that way.
> 
> ...


Well that's kind of a lot to summarize and turn into a Coles note version and I'm fairly certain your one of the guys that was looking to argue in another thread so take this all as just my impression of everything I've learnt since the start of the thread.

Plants will flower with only 6 hrs.
The yield suffered considerably and my first run got pollinated while I was in the hospital. Still got 55-60% of a 12 hr yield and potency didn't show a noticeable decrease.

8hrs seems to be a great middle of the road number for me.
Most of my friends and fam that also grow are now using 8hrs.
They are seeing anywhere from 80-90% of their former yields using 12 hrs.

I also use glr to veg and Indy Dom plants seem to do best. The potency Thing is a myth Imo I've noticed the opposite in fact.
Between glr and 8/16 I've chopped at least 7plus days off as well as 33% of energy usage.

It's like everything else tho every situation is different and I wouldn't recommend glr or reduced hours for anyone that grows for cash or every gram counts.
Down the road however once I have three rooms cycling 8/16 my grams per watt will be incredible


----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)

Dank Sinatra 3
 
Ds2
Ds1


----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)

Sorry pics are back and I've been photo happy 
 
  
Goji X ds


----------



## BobCajun (Feb 26, 2017)

8 hours does seem to be the minimum advisable. Thanks for the summary.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 26, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> 8 hours does seem to be the minimum advisable. Thanks for the summary.


Anytime sir
Thanks for stopping by


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 26, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Nah I prefer my seat at the back where I go unnoticed doin my own thing.


Uh huh. I'm just pointing out where it got you...


----------



## torontoke (Feb 27, 2017)

Pretty sure the purple leaved ds2 is a male. Now the dilemma should he stay or should he go now.


----------



## GroErr (Feb 27, 2017)

Looking great, glad to see you got both the lights going and seed drop! Nice summary of the 8/16 and glr environment, definitely something I'll be testing out vs. my current environment.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 27, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Looking great, glad to see you got both the lights going and seed drop! Nice summary of the 8/16 and glr environment, definitely something I'll be testing out vs. my current environment.


Thank you sir
It has been a nice break of positivity for me lately. I can't complain.
Hopefully everything continues to go smoothly.

Decided to keep the dank Sinatra male. I'll throw him in the shed and backyard. If he lives long enough I'll catch some pollen and dust some lowers.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 27, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thank you sir
> It has been a nice break of positivity for me lately. I can't complain.
> Hopefully everything continues to go smoothly.
> 
> Decided to keep the dank Sinatra male. I'll throw him in the shed and backyard. If he lives long enough I'll catch some pollen and dust some lowers.


If he stays there will be trouble...


----------



## torontoke (Feb 27, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> If he stays there will be trouble...


I know brother
He's going outside
I wouldn't mind making some seed but I don't want to ruin the whole crop


----------



## farmerfischer (Feb 27, 2017)

Yup! Them lights made up my mind 
I'm getting me some now.. The growth floors me Tt. 
And they're good for both veg" And bloom ..


----------



## torontoke (Feb 27, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> Yup! Them lights made up my mind
> I'm getting me some now.. The growth floors me Tt.
> And they're good for both veg" And bloom ..


Currently out of stock but supposed to be steady stock beginning of March onwards. 
I want two more myself.
Doing my best to not become a salesman tho. Or a cheer leader.
But from what I'm seeing already the game is changing fast.
Heat is no longer my biggest hurdle.


----------



## ttystikk (Feb 27, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Currently out of stock but supposed to be steady stock beginning of March onwards.
> I want two more myself.
> Doing my best to not become a salesman tho. Or a cheer leader.
> But from what I'm seeing already the game is changing fast.
> Heat is no longer my biggest hurdle.


Well that's a game changer, isn't it?


----------



## torontoke (Feb 27, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Well that's a game changer, isn't it?


Changed my game 
Works hand in hand with my seemingly never ending chase for total efficiency.
I'm excited about seeing the final results with my own two eyes as usual.


----------



## farmerfischer (Feb 28, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Changed my game
> Works hand in hand with my seemingly never ending chase for total efficiency.
> I'm excited about seeing the final results with my own two eyes as usual.


I'm excited to see your results as well ..


----------



## GroErr (Feb 28, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Changed my game
> Works hand in hand with my seemingly never ending chase for total efficiency.
> I'm excited about seeing the final results with my own two eyes as usual.


Just fired off a message to the folks at northern to let me know when they have one of those 2x QB board kits available. I can use another 100-200w on the end of my COBs when I have the room full and since I have some Panama sativas coming up in veg, I can use them  Saw captainmmorgan's results in the DIY thread and he killed it as usual,, first run and nice haul.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 28, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> I'm excited to see your results as well ..


If I manage to due them justice.
No ones looking forward to some qb dank as much as me


GroErr said:


> Just fired off a message to the folks at northern to let me know when they have one of those 2x QB board kits available. I can use another 100-200w on the end of my COBs when I have the room full and since I have some Panama sativas coming up in veg, I can use them  Saw captainmmorgan's results in the DIY thread and he killed it as usual,, first run and nice haul.


It was his progress and ttysticks recommendation that convinced me.
I like taking chances and this is one I'm glad I did.
I'm sure you will be impressed with yours aswell.
I'm going to order 2 more boards but I think I prefer the single heatsinks. I have mine mounted 9" apart and the gap is as bright or brighter then the rest.

To me the best part is the heat management. After being on all day I can rest my hands on the heatsinks.


----------



## GroErr (Feb 28, 2017)

torontoke said:


> If I manage to due them justice.
> No ones looking forward to some qb dank as much as me
> 
> It was his progress and ttysticks recommendation that convinced me.
> ...


Yeah I'll be fine with 2x boards on one sink, it's about the right size to cover the width of my remaining footprint and if not in use in there I can move it into a tent.

The heat management with these should be even better than COBs. Main advantage imo is being able to fill a room, cover it well with much less wattage, and not have to worry about managing the heat as it never becomes a problem.


----------



## torontoke (Feb 28, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Yeah I'll be fine with 2x boards on one sink, it's about the right size to cover the width of my remaining footprint and if not in use in there I can move it into a tent.
> 
> The heat management with these should be even better than COBs. Main advantage imo is being able to fill a room, cover it well with much less wattage, and not have to worry about managing the heat as it never becomes a problem.


Not to mention the headroom.
The thickest part is the driver 2" lol
And u can keep it super close to the canopy.


Day 10
Ds
 
 
Goji ds

Everyone's looking happy


----------



## torontoke (Mar 2, 2017)

No more even canopy now since I had to replace the males with smaller plants.

Goji 
 

Ds


 

The goji ds and ds are on day 12 of flower the rest are a week behind.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 2, 2017)

Brewing up a full ass tent for the next run. These babies should be at the perfect size for when I get the next qb light built.

  

3 space monkey
4 dream beaver
4 more cowbell
3 elfinstone
1 granpasbreath 
1 atf X ssdd
2 dank Sinatra


----------



## farmerfischer (Mar 2, 2017)

Looking good Toker!!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 2, 2017)

Thanks bud

Time to turn up the food n calmag
Was doing some heavy reading about LEDs and then the quantum threads. These things are going to be tough to find in stock again anytime soon.
I really wish I understood the details of it all better.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks bud
> 
> Time to turn up the food n calmag
> Was doing some heavy reading about LEDs and then the quantum threads. These things are going to be tough to find in stock again anytime soon.
> I really wish I understood the details of it all better.


If Steve says they're solving their supply chain issues, I'd believe him.

I think that much of my own problems with nutes under LED can be attributed to underfeeding.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 2, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> If Steve says they're solving their supply chain issues, I'd believe him.
> 
> I think that much of my own problems with nutes under LED can be attributed to underfeeding.


I have no reason to doubt it sir
But if half the people asking are any indication then it's safe to say the 100 about to be available will be gone in a few hours.

I know I can't wait to get my mitts on another pair.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 3, 2017)

Day 13 and 7for the other 2


----------



## torontoke (Mar 4, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Mar 4, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Mar 5, 2017)

So of the 5 plants in flower all are looking super happy n healthy.
Except for the tallest plant.
It's a goji og X ds in a hempy pot that is starting to show signs of a potassium deficiency. 
This is my first attempt at hempys so I'll take it slow n nurse it back to health.
Fingers crossed.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 5, 2017)

Day 15 of 8/16


----------



## torontoke (Mar 6, 2017)

Chugging along
Starting to fatten up
 
These dank sinatras are squat with a bunch of lil golf ball sized nugs that are dense as fuq. 

If they are this solid already at day 16 I can't wait to see what 30-40 more days does.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 7, 2017)

Day17
Group shot
Back right goji ds, back left space phantom, front dank Sinatra, atfxssdd, dank sinatra
 
Close up goji ds


----------



## torontoke (Mar 7, 2017)

D17
Dank Sinatra


----------



## torontoke (Mar 7, 2017)

I was thinking about starting a new thread altogether but I actually like that mine is quiet and more of a journal now.
And as much excitement as I have for these quantum boards I'm not advertising for them since they are already out of stock. They don't need my help or feedback selling these things. I am however anxious to upgrade my veg tent light asap.

The seedlings are now hitting what I'd call "plant" stage so I will be putting them on glr tomorrow and I'm hoping that they all pre flower and get bushy from being topped in the next 30-40days.
I can't see the flowering plants taking longer then that.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 8, 2017)

Day 18


----------



## GroErr (Mar 8, 2017)

The 8/16 doesn't seem to slow down flower development at all, looks about right maturity for Day 18 from flip, nice.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 8, 2017)

GroErr said:


> The 8/16 doesn't seem to slow down flower development at all, looks about right maturity for Day 18 from flip, nice.


Thank you sir
But sssshjhhh
U can't say that stuff out loud or u will be called crazy or told ur believing "broscience"

Honestly tho these plants are blowing my mind. Not only does development look on par but I can't even show it in pics yet but I've never seen lower buds as frosty and dense already.

The original experiment was based off an article saying if you give the plants "too much" light for a shorter period you can speed up flowering using less hours and I believe I've found the secret ingredient


----------



## GroErr (Mar 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thank you sir
> But sssshjhhh
> U can't say that stuff out loud or u will be called crazy or told ur believing "broscience"
> 
> ...


Fk'it, I've been called a lot worse - lol There's plenty of evidence out there that reduced (anything less than the standard 12/12) light cycles can and do have effects on flowering and expression of certain traits depending on the amount and length of flowering light. That's not bro-science. What we need is what you're doing here, putting it to practical use and understanding the effects in the real world.

I'll be trying different cycle times slowly reducing them to see what effects I get in my own environment. I have a good set of clones that I'll be keeping cycled so I can see the effects on yield, quality, terps, frost with known (control) phenos. My driver is always quality, if I can get the same or better quality with reduced light cycle times, I'd gladly give up a bit of yield and it's not looking like a huge loss there either.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 8, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Fk'it, I've been called a lot worse - lol There's plenty of evidence out there that reduced (anything less than the standard 12/12) light cycles can and do have effects on flowering and expression of certain traits depending on the amount and length of flowering light. That's not bro-science. What we need is what you're doing here, putting it to practical use and understanding the effects in the real world.
> 
> I'll be trying different cycle times slowly reducing them to see what effects I get in my own environment. I have a good set of clones that I'll be keeping cycled so I can see the effects on yield, quality, terps, frost with known (control) phenos. My driver is always quality, if I can get the same or better quality with reduced light cycle times, I'd gladly give up a bit of yield and it's not looking like a huge loss there either.


Exactly how I feel about it.
And I thought that the last couple runs were catching up yield wise and that the loses were becoming more and more acceptable for my situation anyway. But this light has changed my end goal.
Not only should it give me a comparable yield but the quality already looks better at day 18 so it goes without saying that I'm excited.


----------



## GroErr (Mar 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Exactly how I feel about it.
> And I thought that the last couple runs were catching up yield wise and that the loses were becoming more and more acceptable for my situation anyway. But this light has changed my end goal.
> Not only should it give me a comparable yield but the quality already looks better at day 18 so it goes without saying that I'm excited.


For sure, the LED's (at least COBs and the QB's) fit perfectly into this environment. Since LED's are relatively new for you I'm betting those QB's will blow you away in both quality and yield. it's looking that way already


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 8, 2017)

Ive got it preset on my harvest master im doing it this round!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 8, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Ive got it preset on my harvest master im doing it this round!


Doing what?
A reduced light cycle?


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 8, 2017)

Yep... the preprogrammed setting is called quick flower as they do this regularly in new zeland.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 8, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Yep... the preprogrammed setting is called quick flower as they do this regularly in new zeland.


Nice
Sounds interesting
How many hours on is this setting?
What strain are you planning to run?

It's been mentioned here and noticed by myself and others that indicas and Indy Doms take better to glr and reduced cycles but it also makes satys finish quicker too


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 8, 2017)

http://www.harvest-master.com/testimonials.html

I can set it however but these are the factory ones.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 8, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> http://www.harvest-master.com/testimonials.html
> 
> I can set it however but these are the factory ones.


Very cool
The idea of 6/12 has intrigued me for years. Shortening the entire day cycle should chop major time off. The only drawback would be that your on and off times would fluctuate and if u live somewhere that has a different rate u may find urself paying more. The price per kW here is almost double during the day what it is at night.

I thought that 6/18 wasn't long enough so I switched to 8/16.

I can't wait to follow along and see how it goes


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 8, 2017)

Figured id give it a shot before i go cob..


----------



## torontoke (Mar 8, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Figured id give it a shot before i go cob..


Could give it a try regardless what type of light you plan to run.
I was going to build a cob light myself but I'm glad I could never get all the parts together. 
What strain you going with?


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 8, 2017)

Im eyeballing the autocobs 55watt singles drops i found a guy getting 2 grams a watt on the regular... jack herer and black rose.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 8, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Im eyeballing the autocobs 55watt singles drops i found a guy getting 2 grams a watt on the regular... jack herer and black rose.


Cool
I've never heard of those.
I'm new to the led game. But I'm never going back lol

Not really going for maximum gram per watt myself. Getting as many great grams for as little watts as possible is more important to me.
But to each their own.


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Cool
> I've never heard of those.
> I'm new to the led game. But I'm never going back lol
> 
> ...


Especially for 55 watts per 2 sqft.


----------



## cricketkush (Mar 9, 2017)

im using a 1200 watt cob led full spec sunny crx and its amazing, its the best light ive ever used.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 9, 2017)

Day 19
Goji ds
 
Space phantom finally starting to flower

Dank sinatras


----------



## torontoke (Mar 9, 2017)

Really glad I kept that dank Sinatra male around. He's in a seperate lil cabinet just waiting for him to drop some pollen and I'm going to bag a few branches for some chucking.
I really want to hit the atf X ssdd with it and maybe a few others in my next batch.
Maybe even a ds bx


----------



## cricketkush (Mar 9, 2017)

sick af bro i can donate you some real alaskan from the valley seeds if youd like i was blessed with an abundance


----------



## torontoke (Mar 9, 2017)

cricketkush said:


> sick af bro i can donate you some real alaskan from the valley seeds if youd like i was blessed with an abundance


Thank you sir
I don't know much about the Alaskan strains. Being up here we only usually hear about rare cuts and mythical golden unicorn shit.
I was lucky to get these bodhi testers but I didn't have the best luck with them. 3 females out of 11 seeds.
Truth be told I already have more seeds then I need but my dank sinatras are looking really Indy Dom and so does this atf so I figure a chuck should result in a super Indy


----------



## cricketkush (Mar 9, 2017)

just started a strain called thunder frost og its alaskan x mob boss og it came out sativa dom my alskan was to though, everyone else i saw growing alaskan it was indi dom to, but mine looked sativa dom


----------



## torontoke (Mar 9, 2017)

cricketkush said:


> just started a strain called thunder frost og its alaskan x mob boss og it came out sativa dom my alskan was to though, everyone else i saw growing alaskan it was indi dom to, but mine looked sativa dom


When it comes to breeding all these poly hybrids I guess that can happen. All it takes is an ancestors genes to take centre stage and dominate.
Should still be awesome smoke for ya tho. I love satys and Indys just prefer the couch lock pain relief myself.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I know brother
> He's going outside
> I wouldn't mind making some seed but I don't want to ruin the whole crop


You can cut a top or limb and put in a glass of water on a window sill and it will grow long enough to get some pollen.

Looking good. Like the boards.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 9, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> You can cut a top or limb and put in a glass of water on a window sill and it will grow long enough to get some pollen.
> 
> Looking good. Like the boards.


Thanks bud
I'm very happy and excited


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks bud
> I'm very happy and excited


I will be ordering some cobs for my flower cab and maybe some boards for veg in the next week or two.

My flower will be t5/cob hybrid.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 9, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> I will be ordering some cobs for my flower cab and maybe some boards for veg in the next week or two.
> 
> My flower will be t5/cob hybrid.


That's awesome sir
I'll gladly watch


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> That's awesome sir
> I'll gladly watch


I figure get the best of both.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 9, 2017)

Technically the boards are cobs but I know what u mean.
The world needs variety my friend


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Technically the boards are cobs but I know what u mean.
> The world needs variety my friend


They're COBPCB, lol


----------



## torontoke (Mar 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> They're COBPCB, lol


Most importantly for me....

They work


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Most importantly for me....
> 
> They work


Yes they do!


----------



## cricketkush (Mar 9, 2017)

*12-1 Lighting Method*
The 12-1 lighting schedule is as follows 12 hours lights on, 5.5 lights off, 1-hour lights on, 5.5 lights off, and repeat schedule. The 1 hour on in between off period fools the plants that stay in vegetative growth state! watched a guys documentary and watched the plants grow wayyyy more with this method about to try it next go


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 9, 2017)

cricketkush said:


> *12-1 Lighting Method*
> The 12-1 lighting schedule is as follows 12 hours lights on, 5.5 lights off, 1-hour lights on, 5.5 lights off, and repeat schedule. The 1 hour on in between off period fools the plants that stay in vegetative growth state! watched a guys documentary and watched the plants grow wayyyy more with this method about to try it next go


This is called Gaslight timing, after the lighting used to first do it in English conservatories in the 1800s.

I've gone a step further and run a 6 hour on, 2 hour off regimen. I think this has produced slightly better results than either GLT or straight 18/6.


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> This is called Gaslight timing, after the lighting used to first do it in English conservatories in the 1800s.
> 
> I've gone a step further and run a 6 hour on, 2 hour off regimen. I think this has produced slightly better results than either GLT or straight 18/6.


I did the 6-2x3 clones seemed to build roots at a good clip and am staying with it.


----------



## cricketkush (Mar 10, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> I did the 6-2x3 clones seemed to build roots at a good clip and am staying with it.


so it produces good results? right now ive been doing what ive done my whole life lol and that is 18 on 6 off then 12 12 i am really interested in any other methods anyone has to list btw i got my first customer for my grow boxes!!!!!! $1200 and its got a 250 watt veg chamber that holds 10 plants in a hydro res ontop of a 1200 watt full spec cob led with a 6 plant hydro res with a dual injetion system that pumps your nutrients for you, and i went with an i ponic 614 as the humidity and temp monitor and control box, its badass!!!!!!!! i never thought id be able to do what i love as a profession, i wanted to grow, but every state i move to already has a monopoly or rules set in place where i feel like ill never have a warehouse or even a small dispo and that is truly all i want.


----------



## pinner420 (Mar 10, 2017)

Yes somewhere in the beginning of this thread there's a great youtube video explaining the feature benefits of a 12-1. I did that for four months and noticed happier plants but I'll say growth was a little slow using the t5s that I do. Then I read another thread on the 6-2 and it seemed more reasonable to give the girls a couple 2 hour naps a day.. Only 3 weeks in and Like it so far....


----------



## torontoke (Mar 10, 2017)

Day 20


----------



## cricketkush (Mar 10, 2017)

nice!!!!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 10, 2017)

cricketkush said:


> nice!!!!


Thank you sir


----------



## cricketkush (Mar 10, 2017)

you know how you first top a plant in veg and it grows two new tops. Do i top the two tops again? will it make it grow more? im sorry ive grown my whole life but i was homeless and never used the internet and was self taught i never topped plants just let them grow outside the way my grandpa taught me, this is my first indoor grow.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 10, 2017)

cricketkush said:


> you know how you first top a plant in veg and it grows two new tops. Do i top the two tops again? will it make it grow more? im sorry ive grown my whole life but i was homeless and never used the internet and was self taught i never topped plants just let them grow outside the way my grandpa taught me, this is my first indoor grow.


I usually top them twice.
The first time I top is around 2-3weeks old. I do the first real growth around the second node.
Then I wait a few weeks and top both of the new shoots.
Some people go further then that but I don't have the time for that kind of veg.
The two dank Sinatra plants I'm growing were topped once while the tall goji was topped twice.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 10, 2017)

And I wouldn't say it makes it grow more or faster it just doubles the amount of tops.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Mar 10, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Yes somewhere in the beginning of this thread there's a great youtube video explaining the feature benefits of a 12-1. I did that for four months and noticed happier plants but I'll say growth was a little slow using the t5s that I do. Then I read another thread on the 6-2 and it seemed more reasonable to give the girls a couple 2 hour naps a day.. Only 3 weeks in and Like it so far....


I use 6/2 on autos and used to use 6/2 for veg. Works great. I then ran into some strains that didn't like it. Depends on what I am running.


----------



## cricketkush (Mar 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> And I wouldn't say it makes it grow more or faster it just doubles the amount of tops.


yeah i just took 6 plants and tried it 3 ways i staked two to the ground, topped twice on two and then didnt top at all and tied to the side with the last two. we will see whats up lol also used agave nectar a few days ago dont know if its that or my micro brews but its working lol


----------



## torontoke (Mar 10, 2017)

Some guy was spouting off about bud size on qb's so I got curious and had to go check n take some perspective shots.
Had me second guessing for a second but I think these are a decent size for 20 days of only 8hrs
 
 

I just love the structure of this ds
 
I took two clones of each of these with some organic honey.
Hopefully they take I'd love to keep this around.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 12, 2017)

Day 21 and 16


----------



## torontoke (Mar 12, 2017)

The goji has gone back to green yellowing has stopped.
I'm using 2x the calmag as usual.
Think I'm getting used to the light finally


----------



## torontoke (Mar 12, 2017)

Different angle to show how fat the lowers are already.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 12, 2017)

Holy shit
I can't believe this thread has 45 thousand views.
Crazy


----------



## GroErr (Mar 12, 2017)

Every time I pop in here I picture this crazy 3 room setup using the same lights on a rail system, sliding over one room at a time every 8 hours. 24 hr 3-room perpetual with a single set of lights


----------



## torontoke (Mar 12, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Every time I pop in here I picture this crazy 3 room setup using the same lights on a rail system, sliding over one room at a time every 8 hours. 24 hr 3-room perpetual with a single set of lights


Thats exactly my end goal sir!
And because the wattage will be so minimal it will all run on wind and solar.
Starting the foundation/basement build hopefully soon.


----------



## GroErr (Mar 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thats exactly my end goal sir!
> And because the wattage will be so minimal it will all run on wind and solar.
> Starting the foundation/basement build hopefully soon.


With the QB's life expectancy, low weight and thin profile, it makes it very feasible. Didn't realize you were already under way on the build, that would be awesome


----------



## torontoke (Mar 12, 2017)

GroErr said:


> With the QB's life expectancy, low weight and thin profile, it makes it very feasible. Didn't realize you were already under way on the build, that would be awesome


Yea bud started last summer.
I don't have the biggest lot and it's not waterfront but it's part of a family group of lots on a big lake.
Got a bunch of roads cut in and built a few out building already.
Cut some of my build area cleared hopefully winter fuks off and I can go dig in and really get it going.
I'd love to get the basement done this summer but I need to finish the roads and driveway to even get a cement truck in.
By then the price of qb's or comparable tech will be low enough that I'd probably build 3-4 lights and just use one driver to power them one after another on a 3 or 4 way switch box.
Be crazy grams per watt that way.
Kinda be cheating lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2017)

I built my vertical racks to move between spaces, through light tight swinging doors.

Then the prices came down so much the project didn't make sense anymore, lol


----------



## torontoke (Mar 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I built my vertical racks to move between spaces, through light tight swinging doors.
> 
> Then the prices came down so much the project didn't make sense anymore, lol


I've never been a big fan of light movers myself.
My buddy had a rail system going between two small rooms in his garage. Major waste of time imho
For what he spent on the mover he could have just bought and ran an extra light or two.

If your hands on enough with your plants you could just as easily put them on a platform with wheels and just rotate and move them for a similar effect imo


----------



## GroErr (Mar 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I've never been a big fan of light movers myself.
> My buddy had a rail system going between two small rooms in his garage. Major waste of time imho
> For what he spent on the mover he could have just bought and ran an extra light or two.
> 
> If your hands on enough with your plants you could just as easily put them on a platform with wheels and just rotate and move them for a similar effect imo


I was thinking that way could work too, would have to be very efficient rollers/beds. Could get old fast though, my back says build a light mover - lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2017)

I've built my own light mover out of old car parts and a mountain bike. Worked well, but not as well as arrays of COB LED modules, lol


----------



## torontoke (Mar 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> View attachment 3904912 I've built my own light mover out of old car parts and a mountain bike. Worked well, but not as well as arrays of COB LED modules, lol


Lol 
I think I may have seen it all now!
You didn't even take the rubber off.

I totally agree tho your way better off just building more lights.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol
> I think I may have seen it all now!
> You didn't even take the rubber off.
> 
> I totally agree tho your way better off just building more lights.


The rubber tire was important for traction.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The rubber tire was important for traction.


hehe
Course it was
Stonermacgyverism level 10 bro
love it


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> hehe
> Course it was
> Stonermacgyverism level 10 bro
> love it


The 1987 Honda Civic windshield wiper motor and gear drive assembly turned a shaft that then turned the bike wheel. Backwards. The crossbar hung from the crankset, the lights completed one revolution about every 3 and a half minutes.

Those hoods in the pic sucked; much better with open batwing reflectors.

It pulled over 2lb/1000W, but took up a lot more than the usual 16 sq ft.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 13, 2017)

The two in the middle have gone into catch up mode. 

Space phantom


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 13, 2017)

Those quantum boards are clearly not working for you. Send them to me!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 13, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Those quantum boards are clearly not working for you. Send them to me!


This batch is going nicely 
I'm sure it's mostly the light. 
I'd be willing to sell it if the price was right. Plug n play lol


----------



## torontoke (Mar 13, 2017)

Day 23 photo bomb


----------



## torontoke (Mar 13, 2017)

Full tent of bodhi
4 more cowbell
4 dream beaver
3 space monkey
3 elfinstone
1 dank Sinatra
1 goji ds
Topped at least once some twice


----------



## torontoke (Mar 14, 2017)

Atf X ssdd
 
Space phantom
 

Day 15-18ish for these


----------



## torontoke (Mar 14, 2017)

Just had to throw up a pic of my "lil" guy. 5 months 65lbs of cuteness


----------



## GroErr (Mar 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Just had to throw up a pic of my "lil" guy. 5 months 65lbs of cuteness
> View attachment 3905882


Lol, he's already taken over the couch and pillows


----------



## torontoke (Mar 14, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, he's already taken over the couch and pillows


He's always willing to share.
A real snuggler til your not looking then he nips ya lol


----------



## GroErr (Mar 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> He's always willing to share.
> A real snuggler til your not looking then he nips ya lol


He looks a lot like my son's dog who's a cross of Bull Mastiff and Lab. Super friendly but he did that nipping when he was a pup, as soon as you weren't paying attention, bastard got me a few times


----------



## torontoke (Mar 14, 2017)

GroErr said:


> He looks a lot like my son's dog who's a cross of Bull Mastiff and Lab. Super friendly but he did that nipping when he was a pup, as soon as you weren't paying attention, bastard got me a few times


How big did ur sons dog get?
I think I was lied too by this guys breeder.
He's a cane corso. I saw the mom and many pics of the dad both were around 100lbs.
My vet laughed and said 130plus easy but I really hope not he's more then a handful already.
I'm with him 24/7 but he's gonna need some serious training


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> How big did ur sons dog get?
> I think I was lied too by this guys breeder.
> He's a cane corso. I saw the mom and many pics of the dad both were around 100lbs.
> My vet laughed and said 130plus easy but I really hope not he's more then a handful already.
> I'm with him 24/7 but he's gonna need some serious training


Being with him is great- actively training him is even better. I had my lil guy off leash trained by the time he was 6 months old. They need love and repetition and they'll reward you over and over.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Being with him is great- actively training him is even better. I had my lil guy off leash trained by the time he was 6 months old. They need love and repetition and they'll reward you over and over.


I do the best I can with what I know and I'm willing to get help with the rest.
He's great with me, sits,stays, paws, lays down and even high fives but he is jumpy and often bitey.
My gf and daughters already get pulled around by him.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I do the best I can with what I know and I'm willing to get help with the rest.
> He's great with me, sits,stays, paws, lays down and even high fives but he is jumpy and often bitey.
> My gf and daughters already get pulled around by him.


Yeah, gotta work with him to give him the idea that dragging people around isn't acceptable.

Same with the nipping.

He's trying to figure out where he stands in the pack hierarchy that is your family unit. You have to teach him that his place is at the bottom, but it's okay because he'll still get all the love and attention he needs in that position.


----------



## GroErr (Mar 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> How big did ur sons dog get?
> I think I was lied too by this guys breeder.
> He's a cane corso. I saw the mom and many pics of the dad both were around 100lbs.
> My vet laughed and said 130plus easy but I really hope not he's more then a handful already.
> I'm with him 24/7 but he's gonna need some serious training


He landed at 110, has more from the Mastif side including the jowels, friendly but very protective, great dog.

My son was great at training him, you just have to establish who the alpha male is (you) and repetitive/consistent training, never letting up until he gets whatever you're trying to teach him. Last thing you want is a 100-130 lb. dog taking over the house


----------



## torontoke (Mar 15, 2017)

Thanks for all the dog advice guys.
I'll keep on him and will take him to training. Everyone recommended I get a dog to keep me company and help keep me busy.
Was always a Rottweiler fan myself but since my best friend had to recently put his down for health problems I decided to go the mastiff route since they have the longest lifespan of the larger breeds.
Should give me lots of time to enjoy and train him.
The extra security and protection is a bonus especially since I don't live in the nicest neighbourhood and I spend a lot of time up north.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 15, 2017)

Day 25


----------



## torontoke (Mar 15, 2017)




----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2017)

Your up north is sounding more attractive every day.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Your up north is sounding more attractive every day.


I'll be going from a city with 4 million to a town with 6000 lol
That's enough appeal for me sir.

People and more specifically stupid people scare the shit out of me.

And there's the fact that I'm a crazy recluse lol


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'll be going from a city with 4 million to a town with 6000 lol
> That's enough appeal for me sir.
> 
> People and more specifically stupid people scare the shit out of me.
> ...


Keep it up and I'll make it 6001, mate!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 15, 2017)

There's a lot of reasons why you may want to return to the land north of the Great Wall yourself @ttystikk 

Eventually the rec mj thing up here will be sorted but in the meantime the med program is still better then nothing.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Keep it up and I'll make it 6001, mate!


The more the merrier is not really a saying I use tbh but for you sir I'd gladly make an exception lol

I got all the time in the world for good people like yourself.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> The more the merrier is not really a saying I use tbh but for you sir I'd gladly make an exception lol
> 
> I got all the time in the world for good people like yourself.


Comments like these contribute to global warming.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Comments like these contribute to global warming.


Don't worry I'm not always this warm n fuzzy.
Actually fuzzy I am so maybe just not so warm lol


----------



## torontoke (Mar 15, 2017)

Can't help myself I'm addicted to taking pictures lol
Still can't believe these are only on day 25
     
lol reorganizing and a heavy feed.
Looks low potentcy already


----------



## torontoke (Mar 16, 2017)

Day 26 lower


----------



## GroErr (Mar 16, 2017)

Damn, stop showing those flowers as they develop. I promised myself I'd reduce my lights-on times slowly to see the effects but seeing these you're going to make me a liar and go straight to 8/16! lol


----------



## torontoke (Mar 16, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Damn, stop showing those flowers as they develop. I promised myself I'd reduce my lights-on times slowly to see the effects but seeing these you're going to make me a liar and go straight to 8/16! lol


I'd honestly suggest doing it your way sir. Each crop lower it a half hour or so and find what truly works best for your strain/environment.
I would be willing to bet that you keep reducing tho and don't ever go back to 12/12. People might think I'm an extreme tight ass or push it to far with 8 hours but even 10 hours is a lot of savings energy wise (20%).
And I'm also fairly confident that if I can get buds like these with 8 I could match or beat my 12hr yield with 10 for sure.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 16, 2017)

I'm super curious about how long these are going to go.
I really can't see them going another 25 days and that would only be 51days from flip. Wouldn't be surprised if these are less then 50.

Guess there's only one way to find out lol


----------



## GroErr (Mar 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'd honestly suggest doing it your way sir. Each crop lower it a half hour or so and find what truly works best for your strain/environment.
> I would be willing to bet that you keep reducing tho and don't ever go back to 12/12. People might think I'm an extreme tight ass or push it to far with 8 hours but even 10 hours is a lot of savings energy wise (20%).
> And I'm also fairly confident that if I can get buds like these with 8 I could match or beat my 12hr yield with 10 for sure.


Yeah I'm interested in seeing the differences in expression of the clones as I reduce the times but not seeing much downside.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 16, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Yeah I'm interested in seeing the differences in expression of the clones as I reduce the times but not seeing much downside.


Me neither tbh
But I suppose that is obvious lol
I was planning to try a few other cycles but there really is no reason.
Long term I think that I can reasonably supply myself even with plant count limit using 8/16.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 17, 2017)

Don't Look @GroErr 
It's day 27 and 20


----------



## torontoke (Mar 18, 2017)

Day 28 and 21
I'm not sure if it's the strains or the boards but looks like I should easily hit a gram a watt. Suppose that's a much easier goal to hit now with only 200watts going.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 18, 2017)




----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

@Growmau5 uses a grams per kilowatt hour metric, which I think is a much better standard. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, Mau5!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> @Growmau5 uses a grams per kilowatt hour metric, which I think is a much better standard. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, Mau5!


Interesting
Now in gonna have to go do some reading. Thanks tty


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Interesting
> Now in gonna have to go do some reading. Thanks tty


I'm reconfiguring my room and I'm planning to run lights on both sides of my vertical trellis. I'm also seriously considering running 8 hours on one side and 8 on the other side with 4 hours overlap for a total of 12 hours on. It's a third less power and mimics the sun.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 19, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm reconfiguring my room and I'm planning to run lights on both sides of my vertical trellis. I'm also seriously considering running 8 hours on one side and 8 on the other side with 4 hours overlap for a total of 12 hours on. It's a third less power and mimics the sun.


Well you don't need to convince me it will work lol.
I no longer look like the nutty professor making claims about bro science. If 8hrs works in my tiny cabinet there's no reason your idea won't work. And I for one would love to watch n see what happens.
Maybe if you do it and it works people will notice and it will catch on.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 19, 2017)

Day 29


----------



## zoic (Mar 19, 2017)

Well it sure is hard to jump into a thread like this after 58 pages, but why not eh? It took me over a week to read it all and I am amazed at how many awesome tips, tricks and other things I have learned. And pictures .... cannot look at them while eating or I drool so much I do not need to chew my food, LOL. Now I am going to go through it again and write a solid grow diary. My current (first) grow is going OK, but there is so much more I could have done. Like all of your experiments, it was really just a test run to see if growing was even feasible. It is, yah!!!!

Now oddly one of the things that really perked my interest were the *square* growing pots. With those I could fit 12 or more on my grow shelf, instead of 5 with these stupid round pots. And yes they are hard to find at a decent price.

So super giant mega kudos to all of you for experimenting and then reporting the results. I am inspired to reach for new goals, bigger and better output and have clean medicine for my wife and I, at a much more affordable price. I am a follower for sure, lead on McDuff.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 19, 2017)

zoic said:


> Well it sure is hard to jump into a thread like this after 58 pages, but why not eh? It took me over a week to read it all and I am amazed at how many awesome tips, tricks and other things I have learned. And pictures .... cannot look at them while eating or I drool so much I do not need to chew my food, LOL. Now I am going to go through it again and write a solid grow diary. My current (first) grow is going OK, but there is so much more I could have done. Like all of your experiments, it was really just a test run to see if growing was even feasible. It is, yah!!!!
> 
> Now oddly one of the things that really perked my interest were the *square* growing pots. With those I could fit 12 or more on my grow shelf, instead of 5 with these stupid round pots. And yes they are hard to find at a decent price.
> 
> So super giant mega kudos to all of you for experimenting and then reporting the results. I am inspired to reach for new goals, bigger and better output and have clean medicine for my wife and I, at a much more affordable price. I am a follower for sure, lead on McDuff.


Thanks a lot for your kind words.
I'm flattered but don't deserve praise my friend.
Just a guy that loves weed and pushing the new limits.
I've been growing since 95 and have picked up a few tricks here n there.
If you ever need help or advice please feel free to ask away. I'm sure myself or the more knowledgable guys following along will gladly help.

Btw not sure where in Canada you are but homegrown hydroponics and most larger grow stores carry the square pots. They are almost twice as much as round but I'm all about zero wasted space.


----------



## thewanderer718 (Mar 19, 2017)

I have to agree awesome post !!!!!! you have made me change some of my ideas about light cycles.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 19, 2017)

I can honestly say no ones ideas on light cycles have changed more then mine.
Glad that others are even interested in what I do.

Not really trying to save the world one kilowatt at a time but it's the kind of side effect the planet needs.

Thanks guys for making me smile on a Stoney Sunday afternoon


----------



## zoic (Mar 19, 2017)

In am the Ottawa area. Rona actually had some 7" square pots but only 7 total in stock across all stores. It is still early and I expect as springs shows up they will beef up their inventory.

I forgot to mention the best part of this lighting information. My wife was pessimistic that it would cost more in hydro than it is worth. Now using LED's and reduced hours I expect our hydro bill will look about the same as usual. Winning .....


----------



## torontoke (Mar 19, 2017)

zoic said:


> In am the Ottawa area. Rona actually had some 7" square pots but only 7 total in stock across all stores. It is still early and I expect as springs shows up they will beef up their inventory.
> 
> I forgot to mention the best part of this lighting information. My wife was pessimistic that it would cost more in hydro than it is worth. Now using LED's and reduced hours I expect our hydro bill will look about the same as usual. Winning .....


Cool good to know
I quit checking Rona and hd myself for gardening supplies.

Now whether or not it's financially worth it....I'm not a math guy but 
I used approx 200 watts for 8hrs a day so only 1600 watts a day.
For perspective the average microwave uses that in one minute.

Not going to wager a guess on final yield but I can already see enough bud on one plant to justify the energy used for this crop.


----------



## zoic (Mar 19, 2017)

Thanks, any yield will be encouraging enough. Rona is about $10 including tax for those planters. I have a hydroponics store just a few miles away. I want to see if they have any squares, as well as nutes.

I have to say reading about all the seeds you pop and pics of so many different plants at different stages, it boggles my mind that you can keep track of it all. That would be one heck of a spreadsheet, LOL.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 19, 2017)

zoic said:


> Thanks, any yield will be encouraging enough. Rona is about $10 including tax for those planters. I have a hydroponics store just a few miles away. I want to see if they have any squares, as well as nutes.
> 
> I have to say reading about all the seeds you pop and pics of so many different plants at different stages, it boggles my mind that you can keep track of it all. That would be one heck of a spreadsheet, LOL.


Yeah I've definately tried a few strains. I like most everything I've seen from bodhi. That's pretty much every strain I have going right now.
Actually the ones in my flowering cab were given to me by a fellow member and I am excited to try the end product.

I snapped a couple pics tonight just as the light shut off. Trying to show just how frosty these are already.
Still can't do it justice.

Goji og X dank Sinatra 
 

Dank Sinatra f2


----------



## zoic (Mar 19, 2017)

Those flowers have more sugar on them than a bowl of Frosted Flakes. They're great, LOL.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Cool good to know
> I quit checking Rona and hd myself for gardening supplies.
> 
> Now whether or not it's financially worth it....I'm not a math guy but
> ...


This math is incorrect; watts are like speed on the highway when you really want distance;

200W x 8 hours = 1.6 kWh
1600W x 1 minute (1/60hour) = .0267 kWh

And most microwaves pull closer to 1100W so they don't overtax the circuit.

These numbers still clearly illustrate the efficiency of quantum boards and your short day approach.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 20, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> This math is incorrect; watts are like speed on the highway when you really want distance;
> 
> 200W x 8 hours = 1.6 kWh
> 1600W x 1 minute (1/60hour) = .0267 kWh
> ...


Good thing you're here to correct me n keep me honest.
Lol
Excitement blocks out logic sometimes.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 20, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Mar 20, 2017)




----------



## pinner420 (Mar 20, 2017)

Those are packing it on brother my favorite time is watch them shift gears and pack it on...


----------



## torontoke (Mar 20, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> Those are packing it on brother my favorite time is watch them shift gears and pack it on...


Mine too sir
These next couple weeks should be fun to watch.
Hopefully they keep packing til the end


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Good thing you're here to correct me n keep me honest.
> Lol
> Excitement blocks out logic sometimes.


It's not about picking at your mistakes at all; I've been on record here for quite some time now that I think you're on to something important and I want to make sure our convictions rest on accurate numbers.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 20, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> It's not about picking at your mistakes at all; I've been on record here for quite some time now that I think you're on to something important and I want to make sure our convictions rest on accurate numbers.


I'm far from the average bear my friend.
Please point out each and every mistake. Not gonna lie or exaggerate I medicate often and mistakes happen.
Some of the screws are coming loose too but I'm always interested in learning


----------



## torontoke (Mar 21, 2017)

Day31


Sp "orb" 

Dank Sinatra 3

Dank Sinatra 4 

Goji og X dank Sinatra  

Atf X ssdd


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 21, 2017)

Okay so what happened? Somebody let the thread get ridiculously long and now it's hopeless trying to find anything. People can start a "part 2" thread you know, like after about 30 pages. Anyway, so wtf happened when you used 8 hour photoperiod, reduced yields?


----------



## torontoke (Mar 21, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> Okay so what happened? Somebody let the thread get ridiculously long and now it's hopeless trying to find anything. People can start a "part 2" thread you know, like after about 30 pages. Anyway, so wtf happened when you used 8 hour photoperiod, reduced yields?


Welcome back 
Subtle bob
I'm saddened to hear about your displeasure in my grow journal length. I didn't think about how this decision would effect others please accept my apology.
Still not going to start a new grow journal tho. I'm actually pretty sure you were just in my journal a month and a half ago asking the same questions.

During previous runs in my cabinet and at other rooms I have I've gotten it up to 80-90% of my old yields. This current run under the quantum boards looks like it might end up my highest g per watt but I won't know for another month at least.


----------



## GroErr (Mar 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Welcome back
> Subtle bob
> I'm saddened to hear about your displeasure in my grow journal length. I didn't think about how this decision would effect others please accept my apology.
> Still not going to start a new grow journal tho. I'm actually pretty sure you were just in my journal a month and a half ago asking the same questions.
> ...


Lol, Bob's off his meds again and trolling other's threads, weird  Funny how much he has to say for someone who has yet to post anything resembling a coherent grow.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 21, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, Bob's off his meds again and trolling other's threads, weird  Funny how much he has to say for someone who has yet to post anything resembling a coherent grow.


Doesn't bother me in the least.
Theres already more then enough negativity in the world without me adding any to it.
I'm not on here to bash or bad mouth anyone. Bob and anyone else wants to ask questions is more then welcome.
I think he was under the impression that I was doing a side by side comparison or something similar.

I'm sure it's frustrating to find out it's just a grow journal.
That's ok life makes a flavour for everyone


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Welcome back
> Subtle bob
> I'm saddened to hear about your displeasure in my grow journal length. I didn't think about how this decision would effect others please accept my apology.
> Still not going to start a new grow journal tho. I'm actually pretty sure you were just in my journal a month and a half ago asking the same questions.
> ...


Oh, was that you I asked for a summary a while ago? I thought that was a 6 hour thread. Anyway apology accepted. Didn't actually notice this was in the grow journal forum. Seems more like an "advanced mj cultivation" thread. Thanks for the new summary, if that was you before. Seriously though, some of these threads are way too long for practicality.


----------



## BobCajun (Mar 21, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, Bob's off his meds again and trolling other's threads, weird  Funny how much he has to say for someone who has yet to post anything resembling a coherent grow.


Oh sure, I'm gonna write down a record of a grow in a special format, for what purpose? Ain't nobody paying me to go to all that trouble. I start clones, I grow them out, I harvest them, end of grow journal. It's the same every time.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 21, 2017)




----------



## Flowki (Mar 22, 2017)

After reading this thread I can't help but ask why a light over lap system is not the best of both worlds?, should this 6 or 8 hours light on venture be worth while.

If you currently use two lights, light 1 comes on for 6 hours. At 6 hours the next light turns on, the first light stays on for another hour or so (kind like mid day) and then shuts off while light 2 stays on for the remainder 12 hour period. If you have three lights then do it in 4 hour segments with 30min over laps. 4 lights, 2 hour segments with 15 min over laps. Or with 4 lights just have two lights on for 6, two lights off, similar to the first example.

You half the electric bill and ''if'' the more shaded side of the room don't create more stretch as a result, you would be better off than having all lights on 6 off 18. Maybe.

I only suggest this because perhaps light saturation/wasted with all lights blazing is possible?. With a lower more constant light over the full 12 hours maybe it's a better result. Or again, maybe it just creates stretch.

It would be a interesting concept for the hot summer nights. The reduction in light/ac cost (and I assume nutrient ec level reduction) may more than off set the lower yield. But then perhaps RH rises?.

The 3 room thing also sounds interesting RM. But would that not force you into midnight or early morning feeding/maintenance for one of the rooms?. You'd also be spreading the load over the day/night for the other two rooms. That sounds like it would get in the way of life quite often.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 22, 2017)

Flowki said:


> After reading this thread I can't help but ask why a light over lap system is not the best of both worlds?, should this 8 hours light on venture be worth while.
> 
> If you currently use two lights, light 1 comes on for 6 hours. At 6 hours the next light turns on, the first light stays on for another hour or so (kind like mid day) and then shuts off while light 2 stays on for the remainder. If you have three lights then do it in 4 hour segments with 30min over laps. 4 lights, 2 hour segments with 15 min over laps. Or with 4 lights just have two lights on for 6, two lights off, similar to the first example.
> 
> ...


I believe @ttystikk may be trying something similar to this eventually.

At the start of this thread I tried 6/18
But the buds failed to put on any sort of swell whatsoever.
That was back when I was using a 400mh. So I think it's safe to say the plants weren't getting "too much" light yet. Now that I've added 2 hours and ran 8/16 for awhile I'm confident I can produce enough yield to keep myself medicated.
I'm sure that the new led has helped tremendously in bringing the yield into the usual yield ballpark.

For myself long term I think the best set up will probably be three led lights over three seperate grows all being powered by one driver on a switch that triggers each one every 8hrs. Using this method the grams per watt would be pretty good imo.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 22, 2017)

Either way @Flowki 
I forgot to say thanks for stopping by and I'm just glad that more n more people are thinking outside the norm or accepted 12/12.
I'm blown away by how many views and comments my journal has received.
Feel a lot less crazy these days now that it's not just me


----------



## Budget Buds (Mar 22, 2017)

You need to defoliate those bitches a little bit , Do it right and you'll gain a little yield ....

So for everyone just tuning in , what L/D Schedule are you using ?


----------



## torontoke (Mar 22, 2017)

Budget Buds said:


> You need to defoliate those bitches a little bit , Do it right and you'll gain a little yield ....
> 
> So for everyone just tuning in , what L/D Schedule are you using ?


8/16


----------



## torontoke (Mar 22, 2017)

Day32


----------



## zoic (Mar 22, 2017)

Well that sure looks like 8/16 is working very well. I have to flip my soon due to a space shortage, and for sure I am going to try this.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 22, 2017)

zoic said:


> Well that sure looks like 8/16 is working very well. I have to flip my soon due to a space shortage, and for sure I am going to try this.


I'm not sure what kind of light you are using so I can't offer much of an opinion as to how u should run your light.
I want to be as honest as possible always so please remember that the 8/16 theory or any shortened cycle is that the plants get "too much" light while it's on.
These plants I'm running now are
At least twice the size of the ones I had last run under the 400mh. To me that's a drastic lighting difference.

8/16 will still grow you nice buds but there is a yield loss %
Now what that will be for you specifically I can't say


----------



## zoic (Mar 22, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm not sure what kind of light you are using so I can't offer much of an opinion as to how u should run your light.
> I want to be as honest as possible always so please remember that the 8/16 theory or any shortened cycle is that the plants get "too much" light while it's on.
> These plants I'm running now are
> At least twice the size of the ones I had last run under the 400mh. To me that's a drastic lighting difference.
> ...


I was thinking about that also. I am only running a 2lights x4ft LED's that are 38W and 3700 lumen. One idea I considered was 12/12 for 2 weeks and then down two 11/3, 10/4 and if that goes well I may try the 8/16. I am going to play it by ear until I can invest in a better setup. So yield wise I think I will be happy to just get anything.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 22, 2017)

zoic said:


> I was thinking about that also. I am only running a 2lights x4ft LED's that are 38W and 3700 lumen. One idea I considered was 12/12 for 2 weeks and then down two 11/3, 10/4 and if that goes well I may try the 8/16. I am going to play it by ear until I can invest in a better setup. So yield wise I think I will be happy to just get anything.


I think what he's trying to say is that if you try a shortened day schedule, you'll get better results if you don't skimp on light intensity.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 22, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I think what he's trying to say is that if you try a shortened day schedule, you'll get better results if you don't skimp on light intensity.


Just trying to be totally honest and also not come across as a salesman of a certain unavailable product


----------



## torontoke (Mar 22, 2017)




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## GroErr (Mar 22, 2017)

Still looking spot on for bud development at this stage. Think you called it when you said some of those won't go too much past 50


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## zoic (Mar 22, 2017)

Yes, I am definitely on the same page there. I have no doubt my yield will be smaller due to less available light. Better lighting is the highest priority on my need to buy list now. I also have to start looking at nukes, no doubt I can do better than tap water. I appreciate all the great insights you guys have to offer.


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## torontoke (Mar 22, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Still looking spot on for bud development at this stage. Think you called it when you said some of those won't go too much past 50


Yes sir
No way they go past 50. 
I'll be bringing out the loupe in a week or two tops.


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## torontoke (Mar 23, 2017)

Some day 33 lowers of the goji og X dank Sinatra


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## torontoke (Mar 23, 2017)

Had to do a mini cleanup on the cabinet today.
Plucked a lot of dead leaves and did a quick inspection
It's really to bad that goji ds got so zapped. I think she's starting to fade and will be first to get the chop.

 
 

The atf ssdd tester is starting to plump up, which is good. She better get real fat because there was zero stretch at all. She's only 25" tall



Dank Sinatra f2 is hands down the frostiest strain I've ever grown. It's dripping trics. This pic is the lowest bud on the plant.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 23, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Mar 24, 2017)

Day 34 and 26
Ya ya I know not about a pound but lookin decent for less then 200watts
Happy Friday all


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## torontoke (Mar 26, 2017)

Hmm
Seems to be no way to cheer this goji og plant up. It's only on day 36 but I won't be able to watch this thing suffer much longer.
It's really taken on some interesting color and scent.
 
 

The dank sinatras are getting phat!


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## torontoke (Mar 26, 2017)

Space phantom/ orb at day 30
 

This atf X ssdd is the one I can't wait to try. Was always curious about the atf


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## torontoke (Mar 26, 2017)

Not gonna lie 
Felt good to open the cabinet this morning and see this looking back at me.
 
After all the ups n downs since the start of this journal life is smelling pretty good atm


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2017)

Decided to start some backups to keep the perpetual going a lil bit better.
4 deadhead X longbottomleaf
4 tiger mountain
4 landos stash


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## SpankyandJellyBean (Mar 27, 2017)

This is an awesome experiment! Are you planning to do it again?


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## torontoke (Mar 27, 2017)

SpankyandJellyBean said:


> This is an awesome experiment! Are you planning to do it again?


To be completely honest I don't really consider it to be an experiment anymore.
Most people would say that 8 hours of lights on time isn't enough to produce decent buds or enough of them.
I simply disagree!


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## SpankyandJellyBean (Mar 27, 2017)

For biting...would have been best if this were done from day one, but might still work. If he bites, immediately let out a loud and high pitched screech. Like a puppy yipping in serious pain. He should look and act shocked since this is new. If you are sitting, stand up and make yourself big. Look him on the eye. Sit back down and let him come to you. Don't make a fuss just go back to what you were doing. From then on, every single time his mouth gets anywhere near you, react the same way. If it is working, you should start to notice him being more cautious. 

This bite inhibition response works because puppies learn from litter mates when they are being too rough thru sound. Not thru yelling, spanking, shaking or punishment. The puppy being hurt doesn't turn on the aggressor in anger.

If he is not neutered, he should be! Hormones will cause you big problems down the road unless you have serious dawg training experience.

Try to get everyone he associates with to do the same. The higher the squeal the better. Channel your inner girl as women do this better than men.

I have non aggressive methods for leash training/pulling. Let me know if you are interested.


----------



## SpankyandJellyBean (Mar 27, 2017)

Sorry, for the last post, I went back a few pages and got caught up!

Do you think the eight hour schedule would be affected by the type of lighting?

Does how you treat the plant in veg make a difference? Did you give only 8 hours in veg!


----------



## SpankyandJellyBean (Mar 27, 2017)

zoic said:


> Well it sure is hard to jump into a thread like this after 58 pages, but why not eh? It took me over a week to read it all and I am amazed at how many awesome tips, tricks and other things I have learned. And pictures .... cannot look at them while eating or I drool so much I do not need to chew my food, LOL. Now I am going to go through it again and write a solid grow diary. My current (first) grow is going OK, but there is so much more I could have done. Like all of your experiments, it was really just a test run to see if growing was even feasible. It is, yah!!!!
> 
> Now oddly one of the things that really perked my interest were the *square* growing pots. With those I could fit 12 or more on my grow shelf, instead of 5 with these stupid round pots. And yes they are hard to find at a decent price.
> 
> So super giant mega kudos to all of you for experimenting and then reporting the results. I am inspired to reach for new goals, bigger and better output and have clean medicine for my wife and I, at a much more affordable price. I am a follower for sure, lead on McDuff.


Hi,
Can u use the square yellow containers that kitty litter comes in? Haven't done hydro so I am not sure what is involved, but the buckets can be found on Freecycle, at recycling center's and from cat lovers!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 27, 2017)

SpankyandJellyBean said:


> Sorry, for the last post, I went back a few pages and got caught up!
> 
> Do you think the eight hour schedule would be affected by the type of lighting?
> 
> Does how you treat the plant in veg make a difference? Did you give only 8 hours in veg!


I'm sure that the light makes a huge difference. I've now switched to the quantum board LEDs and I'll never fire up another big bulb again.
When I was using the 400mh I found I was losing 10-20% of a reg 12/12 yield. Now with this light the loss if any is not noticeable imo.

And for veg I use the gas light routine. Most of the time my plants have pre flowered before they are switched to 8/16


----------



## torontoke (Mar 27, 2017)

SpankyandJellyBean said:


> Hi,
> Can u use the square yellow containers that kitty litter comes in? Haven't done hydro so I am not sure what is involved, but the buckets can be found on Freecycle, at recycling center's and from cat lovers!


I'm using cat litter pails for my hempy pots.
This was my first time trying them and I'm impressed. No more messy soil after I cycle the plants in my tent through.


----------



## SpankyandJellyBean (Mar 27, 2017)

I have a Mars hydro reflector 48. Do you think it is powerful enough for the 8 hour cycle? 
I am only growing one plant at a time.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 27, 2017)

SpankyandJellyBean said:


> I have a Mars hydro reflector 48. Do you think it is powerful enough for the 8 hour cycle?
> I am only growing one plant at a time.


Tbh I have never used any other led before this one so I'm not really sure.
If it's just a little power saving you are after you could always start at 12/12 and work your way down.
I started this journal with only 6 hrs and found the loss of yield unacceptable so I added.
Have you done many crops with that light yet?


----------



## SpankyandJellyBean (Mar 27, 2017)

No, actually. This is my first and I don't really trust it so I have been supplementing with CFLs. Maybe next time out I will do a bunch of experimenting with all the things I have learned here!


----------



## torontoke (Mar 27, 2017)

SpankyandJellyBean said:


> No, actually. This is my first and I don't really trust it so I have been supplementing with CFLs. Maybe next time out I will do a bunch of experimenting with all the things I have learned here!


Ah
Ok then
No u should stick to the more commonly used lighting schedules.
They are more tried and true and have way less chance of loss especially considering that you are only running one plant.
12/12 or 11/13 heck even 10/14
Once you get it going well and have a buffer to tinker then you can experiment and see what cycle provides best for you and your situation.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 28, 2017)

Day 39


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 28, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Day 39
> View attachment 3914861 View attachment 3914862


Yep. Sickly, spindly, light starved and no frost as usual.

You should send those to me immediately and I'll be sure they're quickly disposed of so you don't embarrass yourself any further.


LOL

Fine work, as usual. Seems the quantum boards work really well with short day grow strategies.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 28, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Yep. Sickly, spindly, light starved and no frost as usual.
> 
> You should send those to me immediately and I'll be sure they're quickly disposed of so you don't embarrass yourself any further.
> 
> ...


Naa
I think everyones right
These probably will be much less potentcy and hardly worth the cost of shipping. I'd feel bad wasting the mailmans time.


----------



## torontoke (Mar 30, 2017)

Bud shot from last night
Day 40 goji ds


----------



## GroErr (Mar 30, 2017)

Very nice and very mature for 40 days


----------



## torontoke (Mar 30, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Very nice and very mature for 40 days


Thanks sir means a lot coming from you.
I'm thinking 3-4 more days
Fingers crossed anyway


----------



## torontoke (Mar 30, 2017)

Day41


----------



## farmerfischer (Mar 31, 2017)

Nugged up pretty good. 
Nicely done.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 1, 2017)

Day 43


----------



## torontoke (Apr 1, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Apr 2, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Apr 3, 2017)

Day 45


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## torontoke (Apr 4, 2017)

The two dank Sinatra and goji og x dank Sinatra got chopped today.
All are hanging now and will be weighed in a few days before going into jars.

The space phantom and atf x ssdd look to have another couple weeks to go once they are dried and weighed I'll post up the final numbers for those following along.

Replaced the 3 I chopped with
1 grandpasbreath
1 more cowbell
1 dream beaver


----------



## torontoke (Apr 4, 2017)

Working on getting a better light in my veg tent. Hoping to start vegging at least a month and a half to two months.

I have a funny feeling something's going to turn up I'm done waiting.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Working on getting a better light in my veg tent. Hoping to start vegging at least a month and a half to two months.
> 
> I have a funny feeling something's going to turn up I'm done waiting.


Nice quick finish on those Sinatra's 

Are you looking at any specific techs for your veg lights?


----------



## torontoke (Apr 5, 2017)

Thanks groer
I'd say 46 days Is good I could live with that every run lol
Thinking I'm gonna go with one or two leds
Haven't decided which yet.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks groer
> I'd say 46 days Is good I could live with that every run lol
> Thinking I'm gonna go with one or two leds
> Haven't decided which yet.


Yeah I'd take 46 days any day 

Don't know what footprint you're looking to cover off but I was looking around and noticed HLG has some 5000k 135w QB kits in stock...


----------



## torontoke (Apr 5, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Yeah I'd take 46 days any day
> 
> Don't know what footprint you're looking to cover off but I was looking around and noticed HLG has some 5000k 135w QB kits in stock...


Ya I'm more then a lil frustrated with those guys and won't be ordering from them anytime soon. I will see if I can whip something up on my own.
Won't be hard to come up with something better then I currently have in there


----------



## GroErr (Apr 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ya I'm more then a lil frustrated with those guys and won't be ordering from them anytime soon. I will see if I can whip something up on my own.
> Won't be hard to come up with something better then I currently have in there


I hear you on that one, that's why I was only looking around, not sure about buying them, there at least... Those cheap blurple panels have served me well, I may just stick with those for veg if I need to replace any. I've had to replace one panel in 4 years, not bad.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 5, 2017)

GroErr said:


> I hear you on that one, that's why I was only looking around, not sure about buying them, there at least... Those cheap blurple panels have served me well, I may just stick with those for veg if I need to replace any. I've had to replace one panel in 4 years, not bad.


I have a funny feeling that the window for those guys is gonna close twice as fast as it opened.
Wouldn't really piss me off that bad and I'd wish them many millions but the bad customer service has left a real bad taste in my mouth.
The rude pm I got before I ordered my boards months ago should have told me enough. But still I said f it and got two.
Even did my best to help them and show people what they could do in a small space with less hours.
And what did I get for paying to do r and d?
I got fucked out of even being able to buy more. No Canadian shipping the last run and then even after promising they wouldn't be out again here we are.
I wish them the best of luck in all that they do but they really need to fix their supply channels and get shit in stock before redesigning and changing colours and bins of diodes.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I have a funny feeling that the window for those guys is gonna close twice as fast as it opened.
> Wouldn't really piss me off that bad and I'd wish them many millions but the bad customer service has left a real bad taste in my mouth.
> The rude pm I got before I ordered my boards months ago should have told me enough. But still I said f it and got two.
> Even did my best to help them and show people what they could do in a small space with less hours.
> ...


Yep, my experience as well, why I never pulled the trigger on those. If you can't take the time to respond to your prospects/customers, maybe you should re-think being in business...


----------



## torontoke (Apr 5, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Yep, my experience as well, why I never pulled the trigger on those. If you can't take the time to respond to your prospects/customers, maybe you should re-think being in business...


I usually try to support fellow forumers if thats even a word.
I know ttystick has some money invested in them and he's been more then nice to me since I got here. Wanted to help spread the word and make sure he makes his investment back but it seems to have gotten out of hand. Those of us using the boards pay for them and supply free r and d and sales.
Only to screw ourselves out of getting more lol naaa
I'm done with that.

I'll keep using the one I have now and get my tent sorted out.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 5, 2017)

In other news 
The early training in the tent is looking like it's gonna pay off.
Have more then a few multi headed mini beasts. Gonna keep toppin and training and seriously hoping to squeeze 8 nice sized 3gals in there next run and pull at least a lb.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 5, 2017)

I forgot to post these before chopping her yesterday.
Day 46 dank Sinatra
Very very loud
 

Now that these three have had a quick rough trim and a day and two hanging and drying it looks like a worthwhile haul indeed.

If I used roughly 160w for flower what's an acceptable yield? Who knows
My guess is 2-3zips per. times 5


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## torontoke (Apr 6, 2017)

Well pulling the 3 out have done nothing for the house smells.
Went in to do a mini clean and rearranged stuff. The space phantom is the smelly bitch. Reeks of creamy baby puke. Hopefully in a week she's getting the axe.

Seems that I caused some drama in the led section by being upset so I think I'll just stick to my own journal and the bodhi thread. Can't afford to alienate myself from any more sub sections on this site or it's not worth signing on anymore.
Not that I've been making friends by the boatload anyway lol


----------



## SSGrower (Apr 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I forgot to post these before chopping her yesterday.
> Day 46 dank Sinatra
> Very very loud
> View attachment 3919713 View attachment 3919715
> ...


forgive the assumption but looks like 8hr working out just fine.....


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## torontoke (Apr 6, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> forgive the assumption but looks like 8hr working out just fine.....


Works for me sir
Been a long uphill road getting here but I'm happy with the results so far.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 6, 2017)

So just to keep myself up to date on flip days and everything.
Currently flowering 
Space phantom "orb" is at day 39
Atf x ssdd is at day 40
Atf x ssdd is day 3
More cowbell day 2
Dream beaver day 3
Dream beaver2 day 2
Space monkey day 1
Grandpasbreath day2


----------



## GroErr (Apr 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I forgot to post these before chopping her yesterday.
> Day 46 dank Sinatra
> Very very loud
> View attachment 3919713 View attachment 3919715
> ...


Looks great, and fast as f*k! I noticed a couple of comments on smell, get used to it. LED's produce louder terps for some reason, I noticed a huge difference right away when I switched out to the COBs, don't imagine these QB's will be much different on that front. As far as yield, you're the best judge based on what you were pulling before. In your setup with mixed strains anything above 1 gpw would be a bonus imo, sounds like you should be well above that mark...


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## zoic (Apr 6, 2017)

GroErr said:


> LED's produce louder terps for some reason


Nice. That comment lifted my day. Trichs are what is all about. I am really hoping my leaves are sugar coated like Frosted Flakes. In spite of cautions I received that it takes a lot to make hash, I still have to explore and experiment myself. There is nothing I enjoy smoking more than good hash. I am so happy I switched from fluorescent to LED.


----------



## BobCajun (Apr 6, 2017)

They do look pretty fat, but I can't see all that much resin. Maybe just because it's not a macro shot. But maybe they need a lot of light energy to make a lot of resin. May be why 12 hours is more potent than 11 or less. Could just be the strain, idk. Just something that I noticed from the shots.


----------



## zoic (Apr 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Works for me sir
> Been a long uphill road getting here but I'm happy with the results so far.


I am confused. I thought you switched to 10/14 to see if it was better. Are you just sticking with 8/16 for flowering. Sorry after 1200+ posts I am probably just confused.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 6, 2017)

zoic said:


> I am confused. I thought you switched to 10/14 to see if it was better. Are you just sticking with 8/16 for flowering. Sorry after 1200+ posts I am probably just confused.


No u aren't confused.
I said I was going to switch to 10/14 this run but when I built the led I put it in right away on my old timer which was already on 8/16.
I think I recommended you try 10/14


----------



## torontoke (Apr 6, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> They do look pretty fat, but I can't see all that much resin. Maybe just because it's not a macro shot. But maybe they need a lot of light energy to make a lot of resin. May be why 12 hours is more potent than 11 or less. Could just be the strain, idk. Just something that I noticed from the shots.


I don't know what to say mr bob
All through this run I've been posting shots of even the lowers being covered in resin but perhaps my standards are lower then yours sir.
I thought these had to much shine to even show up in pictures tbh.
Wasn't really lookin to share my non potent yet super fat n smelly bud anyway so everyone wins


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No u aren't confused.
> I said I was going to switch to 10/14 this run but when I built the led I put it in right away on my old timer which was already on 8/16.
> I think I recommended you try 10/14


This is only an educated guess, but I suspect that in order to make short day bloom cycles work best, you can't also skimp on light intensity. It's gotta be plenty strong light.

@torontoke is this your experience?


----------



## torontoke (Apr 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> This is only an educated guess, but I suspect that in order to make short day bloom cycles work best, you can't also skimp on light intensity. It's gotta be plenty strong light.
> 
> @torontoke is this your experience?


Correct sir
When put on photon overload the shortened cycles do produce. And quality wise I'm more then impressed.
Pics really don't do it justice but it's easily better then what's available at my local club.
I just sampled a mid plant bud and couldn't be happier.


----------



## zoic (Apr 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No u aren't confused.
> I said I was going to switch to 10/14 this run but when I built the led I put it in right away on my old timer which was already on 8/16.
> I think I recommended you try 10/14


OK, I understand now. I just flipped mine but I am starting with 12/12 just to find out if they are all female or not. Considering my obvious lack of light I may just run with that for the first grow. Thanks again.

FWIW I think your buds look plenty frosty. If my connection had stuff that nice I would be a very happy (and stoned) guy.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 6, 2017)

zoic said:


> OK, I understand now. I just flipped mine but I am starting with 12/12 just to find out if they are all female or not. Considering my obvious lack of light I may just run with that for the first grow. Thanks again.
> 
> FWIW I think your buds look plenty frosty. If my connection had stuff that nice I would be a very happy (and stoned) guy.


I don't ever assume I'm better or worse then the next guy. If bobs used to bud with more resin then I'd love to try it myself. I'm jealous and yet happy with what I have.
Contentment my friend is a realistic goal


----------



## BobCajun (Apr 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I don't know what to say mr bob
> All through this run I've been posting shots of even the lowers being covered in resin but perhaps my standards are lower then yours sir.
> I thought these had to much shine to even show up in pictures tbh.
> Wasn't really lookin to share my non potent yet super fat n smelly bud anyway so everyone wins


I see. Didn't actually look at the rest of the thread. Got kind of tired after the first 50 pages. Next time I want to read War and Peace I'll just read this thread instead. It'll take longer but oh well.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 7, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> I see. Didn't actually look at the rest of the thread. Got kind of tired after the first 50 pages. Next time I want to read War and Peace I'll just read this thread instead. It'll take longer but oh well.


Sorry to disappoint you yet again bob.
You seem like a difficult person to get along with. 
Please don't feel obligated to honour my humble journal with your presence there's thousands of other threads that require a dose of your saltiness.


----------



## BobCajun (Apr 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Sorry to disappoint you yet again bob.
> You seem like a difficult person to get along with.
> Please don't feel obligated to honour my humble journal with your presence there's thousands of other threads that require a dose of your saltiness.


True enough, as you were then. I'll just fucking ignore your bloated threads from now on cuz you ain't even slightly enjoyable to converse with. Which is probably why you got run off everybody else's threads and have to stay in your own. Actually the only reason I posted here recently is because it showed up in my alerts from when I posted a while ago, not due to my interest in the thread. I'll just hit unwatch thread up there at top of the page. Should have done that before apparently.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 7, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> True enough, as you were then. I'll just fucking ignore your bloated threads from now on cuz you ain't even slightly enjoyable to converse with. Which is probably why you got run off everybody else's threads and have to stay in your own. Actually the only reason I posted here recently is because it showed up in my alerts from when I posted a while ago, not due to my interest in the thread. I'll just hit unwatch thread up there at top of the page. Should have done that before apparently.


 See now that's just rude sir.
Probably not untrue yet rude nonetheless 
You might think I only hang out in here but I have seen your negative comments in many threads and yet still tried to be hospitable to you. 
Unfortunately my personality is abrasive to some and not abrasive enough for others.
Have a good day and I wish u luck in your search for someone slightly enjoyable to talk to.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 7, 2017)




----------



## SSGrower (Apr 7, 2017)

I find your lighting schedule interisting and hope to incorporat what you have learned/seen. I have chosen my light cycles and flip method and will modify it as I see fit. I see it possible that changing day length (e.g. from 24 hrs, to 20 hrs) could very much be usefull. 25 years ago my technique evolved from using the old mechanical timers, I have never (until now) gone direct to flower, I would just gradually shorten day cycles/lengthen night over 14-30 days. Now I am using an arduino, I am not limited to a 24hr day and have basically limitless options for light timing. I currently run 17/7 in veg and 11/13 in flower (I like prime numbers), I don't believe I have ever seen this thing referred to as "stretch", until recently when I found it necessary to make some space and since I belive my techniqe takes longer, I flipped directly to 12/12 then to 11/12 over a couple of days. Previous experience with this strain with a gradual change did not exhibit this, I chose my method 25 years ago bc there is no place on earth where there would be such a dramatic change in lighting schedule. Stretch may have benifits I am unaware of (like bud structure?), but I prefer stalkier plants, they fit my style well.

I can appreciate your use of a different timing scheme, I think shorter cycles for both day and night is certainly worth the effort of investigating.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> See now that's just rude sir.
> Probably not untrue yet rude nonetheless
> You might think I only hang out in here but I have seen your negative comments in many threads and yet still tried to be hospitable to you.
> Unfortunately my personality is abrasive to some and not abrasive enough for others.
> Have a good day and I wish u luck in your search for someone slightly enjoyable to talk to.


I figured it was Cajun Bob you were referring to in the conversation, had to show ignored content to confirm. He either goes off or on meds about once a month and starts trolling other people's threads for a day or two, then disappears again. Not worth my breath so I put him on ignore a long time ago. Have yet to see him post anything that resembles a decent plant, yet he has so much to say about others. I have an ex like that but she wasn't on meds, thereby the ex moniker


----------



## torontoke (Apr 7, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> I find your lighting schedule interisting and hope to incorporat what you have learned/seen. I have chosen my light cycles and flip method and will modify it as I see fit. I see it possible that changing day length (e.g. from 24 hrs, to 20 hrs) could very much be usefull. 25 years ago my technique evolved from using the old mechanical timers, I have never (until now) gone direct to flower, I would just gradually shorten day cycles/lengthen night over 14-30 days. Now I am using an arduino, I am not limited to a 24hr day and have basically limitless options for light timing. I currently run 17/7 in veg and 11/13 in flower (I like prime numbers), I don't believe I have ever seen this thing referred to as "stretch", until recently when I found it necessary to make some space and since I belive my techniqe takes longer, I flipped directly to 12/12 then to 11/12 over a couple of days. Previous experience with this strain with a gradual change did not exhibit this, I chose my method 25 years ago bc there is no place on earth where there would be such a dramatic change in lighting schedule. Stretch may have benifits I am unaware of (like bud structure?), but I prefer stalkier plants, they fit my style well.
> 
> I can appreciate your use of a different timing scheme, I think shorter cycles for both day and night is certainly worth the effort of investigating.


Thanks 
There have been a few of us going back n fourth on this journal with theories and ideas.
I'm only one person trying things with a tiny ass experiment cabinet.
One thing that keeps popping back up is the idea of shortening the entire day.
I'd love to try 8 hours on and 10 or 12 off.
My timer isn't as fancy so I couldn't do it without resetting daily but I'm sure it would work and probably shorten flower times even more.
This last run plants all seemed done by day 45ish not sure if it's because these are Indy doms or the light schedule or the overpowered spectrum maybe a combo of all the above.

I hope you do try something unconventional and please post a link in here so others like myself can follow along.
And good luck with it


----------



## torontoke (Apr 7, 2017)

GroErr said:


> I figured it was Cajun Bob you were referring to in the conversation, had to show ignored content to confirm. He either goes off or on meds about once a month and starts trolling other people's threads for a day or two, then disappears again. Not worth my breath so I put him on ignore a long time ago. Have yet to see him post anything that resembles a decent plant, yet he has so much to say about others. I have an ex like that but she wasn't on meds, thereby the ex moniker


Lol I should have known better but I refuse to return to my pessimismistic former self.
Some folks just revel in the thought of sharing misery and their eyore cloud follows them around like a fart at church.
Takes a lot to get under my skin lately and that isn't going to change because of what someone on here says.
I'd sooner quit and never post again then become one of those guys. Arguing about arguing.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol I should have known better but I refuse to return to my pessimismistic former self.
> Some folks just revel in the thought of sharing misery and their eyore cloud follows them around like a fart at church.
> Takes a lot to get under my skin lately and that isn't going to change because of what someone on here says.
> I'd sooner quit and never post again then become one of those guys. Arguing about arguing.


Lol, agreed, I don't let any trolls get me going, maybe have some fun with them, then ignore them. I prefer to save my breath for pipe/vape hits


----------



## torontoke (Apr 7, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, agreed, I don't let any trolls get me going, maybe have some fun with them, then ignore them. I prefer to save my breath for pipe/vape hits


I used to have a bunch of folks on ignore and one day in the hospital I decided that I should try a new route.
Kill them with kindness and let them paint their character however they choose to.
I can only control how my reactions in all interactions make me feel. 
I Don't worry about being liked or respected online just irl where I'm sure most would act differently.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I used to have a bunch of folks on ignore and one day in the hospital I decided that I should try a new route.
> Kill them with kindness and let them paint their character however they choose to.
> I can only control how my reactions in all interactions make me feel.
> I Don't worry about being liked or respected online just irl where I'm sure most would act differently.


You're more patient than I for sure


----------



## SSGrower (Apr 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks
> There have been a few of us going back n fourth on this journal with theories and ideas.
> I'm only one person trying things with a tiny ass experiment cabinet.
> One thing that keeps popping back up is the idea of shortening the entire day.
> ...


I'm in a 3x3 myself. Here's a link to my thread. https://www.rollitup.org/t/boxed-wine-cabinet-and-cabrenet.933703/#post-13454554

I went the arduino route when a thee timers failed over what seemed like less than a month. Base cost for parts on an arduino, relays, temp/humidity, etc less than 3 timers. Since the arduino uses something called unix time, if you can figure the math out in seconds you can create any timing you wish. You better believe I will be shortening night cycles too, I just got the thing up and running to do all the timing adjustments I used to do manually during transition. I enter start date, veg days, veg light on and off times, number of days to transition and how many hours light during flower. This with the capicity to do environmental controls at a fraction the cost of a titan.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 7, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> I'm in a 3x3 myself. Here's a link to my thread. https://www.rollitup.org/t/boxed-wine-cabinet-and-cabrenet.933703/#post-13454554
> 
> I went the arduino route when a thee timers failed over what seemed like less than a month. Base cost for parts on an arduino, relays, temp/humidity, etc less than 3 timers. Since the arduino uses something called unix time, if you can figure the math out in seconds you can create any timing you wish. You better believe I will be shortening night cycles too, I just got the thing up and running to do all the timing adjustments I used to do manually during transition. I enter start date, veg days, veg light on and off times, number of days to transition and how many hours light during flower. This with the capicity to do environmental controls at a fraction the cost of a titan.


Sounds awesome I'll be watching how it goes.
I've found myself spending more than a minute zoning out thinking of all the roadblocks and problems with all sorts of scenarios. Think the hardest part about switching to a shortened overall day would be keeping track of what actual day you are on in flower.
Like if u used say 8/12 that's only a 20 hr day so you lose 4 hours per day times say a month of 30 days.
4 x 30 is 120 hours or 5 days so ur day 30 is really 25 lol 
I'm to much of a stoner to keep track I'd need to pre chart it or I'd get lost.
Now I'm curious if I switched to a cycle like that if I could cut my 46 day run back to 40

Wouldn't that be a bonus.
Good luck sir either way


----------



## torontoke (Apr 8, 2017)

Just out of curiousity @SSGrower what strains you planning to experiment with?

I've found that the different schedules tend to work best with indica or indica doms.
Sativas can be much more finicky imo however the shortened schedule does speed up their flower times. Even a gradual step down of 1/2 hour a week should shave days off the back end.


----------



## SSGrower (Apr 8, 2017)

Currently I am running a mix of hybrids hey are, clementine kush (50/50, sat/ind), night nurse (30/70), medicine man (70/30) from seed (im now out of seeds tho), and a clone of swampskunk (or skunkswamp) I dont know much about but supposed to be indica dom.
I have had a 7ft plus tall (long actually, it went around 3 sides of the cabinet), this was before I worked on any pruning or real training, I thinkmthe way I do things now would be helpul and I do enjoy the sativas as well.....


----------



## torontoke (Apr 8, 2017)

Space phantom "orb" getting chopped
 
Bodhi tester also getting chopped
Atf x ssdd
Not a yielder but damn she smells sweet
  
And that's it for that run
Next crop is now in and flipped 
 
2 dream beaver
1 more cowbell
1space monkey
1 elfinstone
1 grandpasbreath
1 space phantom
1 atf x ssdd


----------



## wilbertski (Apr 8, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Very nice and very mature for 40 days


Very mature for 40 days dude........how many days do they go for in flower these bad girls!
Nice pic by the way


----------



## torontoke (Apr 8, 2017)

wilbertski said:


> Very mature for 40 days dude........how many days do they go for in flower these bad girls!
> Nice pic by the way


Thanks
They are all chopped
Longest one was 47 days
They only had a bout a 3-4week veg


----------



## torontoke (Apr 8, 2017)

No resin here


----------



## torontoke (Apr 9, 2017)

Next round is filling in nicely


----------



## torontoke (Apr 9, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

Day3 tons of yellowish budsites already.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 10, 2017)

Nie, those look like they'll blow up nicely, looking healthy and raring to go


----------



## GroErr (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3921942


Healthy bowl 'o buds  Looking shiny, did you find the terps stronger or do you have a reference for that strain prior to the QB's? They look like fire


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Healthy bowl 'o buds  Looking shiny, did you find the terps stronger or do you have a reference for that strain prior to the QB's? They look like fire


So far every sampler has been killer.
My gf already tried to claim that dank Sinatra jar.
This was my first run with these strains. They were sent to me by a generous fellow member and I'm super happy with the results. I took cuts in flower so 50/50 on whether I can reveg them to keep her around but either way I will be running her again one way or the other.
I've read write ups on it testing out at up to 33% and while I'm skeptical it's that high it's the most potent I've had in a long time.
Wobbly high school legs special.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> So far every sampler has been killer.
> My gf already tried to claim that dank Sinatra jar.
> This was my first run with these strains. They were sent to me by a generous fellow member and I'm super happy with the results. I took cuts in flower so 50/50 on whether I can reveg them to keep her around but either way I will be running her again one way or the other.
> I've read write ups on it testing out at up to 33% and while I'm skeptical it's that high it's the most potent I've had in a long time.
> Wobbly high school legs special.


Nice, sounds like a killer pheno, hope the re-veg of those clones works out. One of the Blue Ripper phenos (F2/P3) I pulled is like that, once in a while it's nice to come across something that wobbles the legs


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Nice, sounds like a killer pheno, hope the re-veg of those clones works out. One of the Blue Ripper phenos (F2/P3) I pulled is like that, once in a while it's nice to come across something that wobbles the legs


I thought my tolerances were up at the unwobbable level lol
Fuk was I wrong!
With my back being the mess that it is I found the indy plants help most and this is probably the closest to pure indica I've seen.
Just makes me wish I had more room to really pheno hunt.


----------



## lukio (Apr 10, 2017)

interesting thread dude, thanks! Like your outlook on life too. need more of that in the world!


----------



## GroErr (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I thought my tolerances were up at the unwobbable level lol
> Fuk was I wrong!
> With my back being the mess that it is I found the indy plants help most and this is probably the closest to pure indica I've seen.
> Just makes me wish I had more room to really pheno hunt.


I find changing up strains (why I'm typically running 6-8 strains per run) regularly helps with tolerance. I also take some short 2-3 day breaks and it's amazing how quickly you become a lightweight again - lol When I was down south in early Jan I went a week and for a few weeks a single pipe would knock me on my ass.

Do you use edibles for the back issues? I find a medium dose (60-80mg) coconut oil cap, along with a pipe or two works well when I throw my lower back out.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

lukio said:


> interesting thread dude, thanks! Like your outlook on life too. need more of that in the world!


Thank you sir
I appreciate your kind words


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

GroErr said:


> I find changing up strains (why I'm typically running 6-8 strains per run) regularly helps with tolerance. I also take some short 2-3 day breaks and it's amazing how quickly you become a lightweight again - lol When I was down south in early Jan I went a week and for a few weeks a single pipe would knock me on my ass.
> 
> Do you use edibles for the back issues? I find a medium dose (60-80mg) coconut oil cap, along with a pipe or two works well when I throw my lower back out.


I've tried many edibles but didn't find much relief so I gave up.
I still roll phatties old school style.
Bong hits when pain is severe and I have a co2 oil vape pen I take everywhere I go.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I've tried many edibles but didn't find much relief so I gave up.
> I still roll phatties old school style.
> Bong hits when pain is severe and I have a co2 oil vape pen I take everywhere I go.


That sucks, if they work they seem to work well, I've only run into one person that the pills don't do much for. In that case phatties still work


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

GroErr said:


> That sucks, if they work they seem to work well, I've only run into one person that the pills don't do much for. In that case phatties still work


I went from dispensary to dispensary buying up all kinds of shit. I found most to be weak sauce tbh. I've got a garbage bag of shake and popcorn to make something with but haven't decided what yet.
Most likely it will be given away.


----------



## Thaii Ajna (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> To me too hot diggity
> Makes me not want to think about the hundreds or thousands ive wasted on the extra hours of electricity over the last bunch of years.
> I know most old school guys will never believe it and try anything other than 12/12 but im done with the old ways and couldnt be happier about all the money i will be saving on batteries in the near future.


when you say batteries, what do you mean? You say that you plan on getting off of the eletric grid? have you yet?


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

Thaii Ajna said:


> when you say batteries, what do you mean? You say that you plan on getting off of the eletric grid? have you yet?


Not yet but I'm very close.
Have all the numbers and equipment ready.
Hoping to start building this summer.
My house will not be tied to the grid at all.


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## GroErr (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I went from dispensary to dispensary buying up all kinds of shit. I found most to be weak sauce tbh. I've got a garbage bag of shake and popcorn to make something with but haven't decided what yet.
> Most likely it will be given away.


I've heard the same for edibles from dispensaries, weak as shit. Buddy gave me some candies he got and didn't do anything, nowhere near what they say the dosage is supposed to be. We should hook up sometime so you can try my caps, I'd be surprised if legit dosage coco caps don't do something for you, they've knocked 300 lb. buds on their asses.


----------



## Thaii Ajna (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Not yet but I'm very close.
> Have all the numbers and equipment ready.
> Hoping to start building this summer.
> My house will not be tied to the grid at all.


so how do you plan on getting electricity? This is something I've been interested in.


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## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

A mixture off solar and wind.
With a backup propane generator

Wood fired boiler heating rads and in floor pex tubing for heat.

Going outside in summer for cooling lol


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

GroErr said:


> I've heard the same for edibles from dispensaries, weak as shit. Buddy gave me some candies he got and didn't do anything, nowhere near what they say the dosage is supposed to be. We should hook up sometime so you can try my caps, I'd be surprised if legit dosage coco caps don't do something for you, they've knocked 300 lb. buds on their asses.


I will be making my yearly spring/summer hiatus up north and would gladly meet up and sample your coco caps lol
It could never hurt meeting more likeminded good people such as yourself.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I will be making my yearly spring/summer hiatus up north and would gladly meet up and sample your coco caps lol
> It could never hurt meeting more likeminded good people such as yourself.


Forgot your property is up north. Sounds good, for sure, PM me when you're headed up that way or the way back and we'll hook up somewhere along the route. If you give me a few days heads up I'll wip up a batch, can't try just one or two


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## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

Ok tally time
Atf x ssdd 48grams
Space phantom 71 grams
Goji ds 82 grams
Dank Sinatra 4 73 grams
Ds4. 80grams

Total 354grams 
2.21g per watt
59g per sq ft

Worthwhile run imo


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## ttystikk (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Total 354grams
> *2.21g per watt*
> 59g per sq ft
> 
> Worthwhile run imo


 
Nice!

Does this even take into account the fact that you've cut your daylight interval by a third?


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Nice!
> 
> Does this even take into account the fact that you've cut your daylight interval by a third?


Thank you sir
No I couldn't think of a way to include that.
Doesn't matter tho it's more then enough for me to consider this a viable option and worthwhile. I only grow to supply myself and it looks like I shall be well supplied indeed.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thank you sir
> No I couldn't think of a way to include that.
> Doesn't matter tho it's more then enough for me to consider this a viable option and worthwhile. I only grow to supply myself and it looks like I shall be well supplied indeed.


And with quality meds, those buds look great, you're not giving up quality or much quantity from what I can see. The cycles seem fast/faster than normal too.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thank you sir
> No I couldn't think of a way to include that.
> Doesn't matter tho it's more then enough for me to consider this a viable option and worthwhile. I only grow to supply myself and it looks like I shall be well supplied indeed.


I'm going to give this a try. Not sure why I'm waiting so long...


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

GroErr said:


> And with quality meds, those buds look great, you're not giving up quality or much quantity from what I can see. The cycles seem fast/faster than normal too.


I noticed that each stage seemed to initiate quicker and that chopped more time off in total then even I expected.
Not going to get crazy and think that these results had anything to do with me or anything I do others don't.
I used an extremely low wattage overall and the results were easy in that scenario.



ttystikk said:


> I'm going to give this a try. Not sure why I'm waiting so long...


Not sure how my results would translate to such a huge environment difference but you know I'd certainly be anxious to see how it does.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 10, 2017)

Here's a goji og x dank Sinatra I'm burnin tonight. Probably not any good tho 


Edit: it's actually pretty good after all


----------



## torontoke (Apr 11, 2017)

Day4

Big bushy one in the middle has some odd thing going on with the fans.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Day4
> View attachment 3922714
> Big bushy one in the middle has some odd thing going on with the fans.


That just looks like what happens with FIM'd leaves, if you topped and didn't quite get the whole top (aka FIM) the leaves will square off like that. They grow fine, just look a little weird.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 11, 2017)

GroErr said:


> That just looks like what happens with FIM'd leaves, if you topped and didn't quite get the whole top (aka FIM) the leaves will square off like that. They grow fine, just look a little weird.


Very possible 
Most of these were topped and a few twice.
That one looks like I may have missed.
I'm sure it will grow out of it.
I've had uglier


----------



## torontoke (Apr 12, 2017)

Day5
Going to have to do some rearranging in there today.
Probably going to space my updates out a lil further in between now that the nicer weather is slowly moving in.
We live in a pics or it didn't happen kind of world and I did everything I could to show the entire process from start to finish so no one could call bullshit Or doubt my honesty.
I can do my daily notes n updates on my phone and laptop, this was about sharing with the group or few folks that chime in.
It's been shared so now I can go back to being more of a recluse hobbit.


----------



## lukio (Apr 12, 2017)

2.21+ gpw.... very impressive, congrats dude! looks lovely


----------



## torontoke (Apr 12, 2017)

lukio said:


> 2.21+ gpw.... very impressive, congrats dude! looks lovely


Thank you sir
It was a much needed pleasant surprise and the perfect reassurance that life sorts itself out and you will in fact get back positive vibes if you put enough out there.


----------



## Thaii Ajna (Apr 12, 2017)

Very nice! Well, I wish you the best of luck in this, man


----------



## GroErr (Apr 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3923291
> Day5
> Going to have to do some rearranging in there today.
> Probably going to space my updates out a lil further in between now that the nicer weather is slowly moving in.
> ...


Thanks for that, it was great having almost daily updates and seeing the results throughout the cycle. I know it takes effort/time to do that regularly. I try and update weekly and slip the odd one in between when I have time. We all have lives to live offline and Canadians have to wring out every minute of nice weather we can get!


----------



## Thaii Ajna (Apr 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Well the tides have changed in my life folks and I'm pumped...
> Just acquired a fucking awesome piece of land. Start building my forever home next spring. Monster playroom for a basement. A lot of good things will be coming over the next year.
> I have to provide meds for 4 patients and I want to get serious about breeding and helping people.
> 
> Keep paying it forward, karma does seem to come around after all.


Wow! look at you! I know this is late but super proud of you! I hope to be where you're at some time soon.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 12, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Thanks for that, it was great having almost daily updates and seeing the results throughout the cycle. I know it takes effort/time to do that regularly. I try and update weekly and slip the odd one in between when I have time. We all have lives to live offline and Canadians have to wring out every minute of nice weather we can get!


I have to always be 100% honest for some reason and this journal almost died a few times over the last few years but I felt it was super important to post an entire grow from day 1 til chop. 
Glad that I was actually able to document a whole grow and that it may help someone or change the way people think they have to do things.
Ironic that this run included a plant that came from a seed of the first run that was accidentally pollinated while I was in the hospital.
I beat my goal of 1 gram a watt and was torn on whether I should quit while I'm ahead.
Longer intervals between updates seems like a happy medium.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 12, 2017)

Thaii Ajna said:


> Wow! look at you! I know this is late but super proud of you! I hope to be where you're at some time soon.


Well believe me I didn't always have the most optimistic outlook and slowly as my attitude and mindset changed so did the results of most of my choices.
When u put out nothing but good vibes it only makes sense that they eventually come back to you.
Good luck chasing your dreams whatever they may be!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 12, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Thanks for that, it was great having almost daily updates and seeing the results throughout the cycle. I know it takes effort/time to do that regularly. I try and update weekly and slip the odd one in between when I have time. We all have lives to live offline and Canadians have to wring out every minute of nice weather we can get!





torontoke said:


> Well believe me I didn't always have the most optimistic outlook and slowly as my attitude and mindset changed so did the results of most of my choices.
> When u put out nothing but good vibes it only makes sense that they eventually come back to you.
> Good luck chasing your dreams whatever they may be!


What do you Canucks think of the ongoing housing crisis up there?

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/wolf-richterwild-housing-speculation-drives-entire-canadian-economy.html


----------



## torontoke (Apr 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> What do you Canucks think of the ongoing housing crisis up there?
> 
> http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/wolf-richterwild-housing-speculation-drives-entire-canadian-economy.html


I never really got to into real estate since I couldn't ever afford to. But I've often wondered how they are constantly tearing one house down and replacing it with 100houses or a 150apt condo and yet the values and subsequently rents only increase. You would think the rate of build would quickly surpass birth rates and mean tons of vacant property with landlords bleeding cash.
I think a lot of people stand to lose way more money when rates inevitably rise.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> What do you Canucks think of the ongoing housing crisis up there?
> 
> http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/wolf-richterwild-housing-speculation-drives-entire-canadian-economy.html


Insanity is what it is, have no idea how my grandkids will afford a house other than if I leave them enough for the insane downpayment they'll need.

I moved my primary residence just over 4 years ago, downsized and bought a 2nd place I rent out for 1/2 the year. Both have doubled in price in that timeframe. Which sounds great, for me because one is strictly an investment property it's all good. For most, the value of your house means shit if you have to pay the same insane prices when you move. Only other way to gain is to sell and move somewhere else out of country, where real estate prices aren't as crazy. Or sell when prices are peaked and rent for a while until the market gets real.

I'm likely going to sell one place this spring and cash in because its' at or close to the breaking point imo. Prices cannot maintain at these levels and I think a ton of people are counting on interest rates at these all-time low rates forever, which has to break soon or inflation will force them up. Once that happens the market will crash hard as there will be a ton of foreclosures, a la 1991-1993.

Only saving grace right now is interest rates are so low compared to early 90's during the recession (my mortgage at the time went from 7% to 11.5% when I renewed!) but it's all relative. Low at 2.5-3.0%, but if that goes to say 4.5% on a $500,000 mortgage, you're f'd or better get 3 jobs


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 12, 2017)

Looking good friend.

I'm excited. Turkey season opens Saturday. I'm taking my 6 year old son for the first time.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 12, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> Looking good friend.
> 
> I'm excited. Turkey season opens Saturday. I'm taking my 6 year old son for the first time.


Hehe I bet he has a blast!
We have tons of turkey on our property but a neighbour told us not to bother. He said he shot one and it was so tuff even his dog couldn't chew it.
I've never had wild turkey. Is it any good or tuff like he said.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Hehe I bet he has a blast!
> We have tons of turkey on our property but a neighbour told us not to bother. He said he shot one and it was so tuff even his dog couldn't chew it.
> I've never had wild turkey. Is it any good or tuff like he said.


It is delicious.

It is tough compared to a store bought turkey.

The breast meat is tender. I slice it thin and roll in flower and fry.

The legs and thighs are really tough. I save them up and put in a croc pot for a day.

He has been squirrel hunting with me.


----------



## GroErr (Apr 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Hehe I bet he has a blast!
> We have tons of turkey on our property but a neighbour told us not to bother. He said he shot one and it was so tuff even his dog couldn't chew it.
> I've never had wild turkey. Is it any good or tuff like he said.


We have to swerve around them on the roads up my way, specially in the fall. But you know they're tough when even the locals don't bother with them. They'll pick up deer road-kill but leave the turkeys


----------



## torontoke (Apr 12, 2017)

GroErr said:


> We have to swerve around them on the roads up my way, specially in the fall. But you know they're tough when even the locals don't bother with them. They'll pick up deer road-kill but leave the turkeys


Same on my property.
My buddies dog chases packs of them almost daily.
He never gets even close so they probably have legs of steel from all the running. 


whitebb2727 said:


> It is delicious.
> 
> It is tough compared to a store bought turkey.
> 
> ...


Ya I bet the breast breaded n fried would be awesome. That's probably the only way I'd try it.
Had partridge fillet last summer and that was amazing. Lil shake n bake on it and it was even better.
Gonna try to get my license this year finally.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I never really got to into real estate since I couldn't ever afford to. But I've often wondered how they are constantly tearing one house down and replacing it with 100houses or a 150apt condo and yet the values and subsequently rents only increase. You would think the rate of build would quickly surpass birth rates and mean tons of vacant property with landlords bleeding cash.
> I think a lot of people stand to lose way more money when rates inevitably rise.





GroErr said:


> Insanity is what it is, have no idea how my grandkids will afford a house other than if I leave them enough for the insane downpayment they'll need.
> 
> I moved my primary residence just over 4 years ago, downsized and bought a 2nd place I rent out for 1/2 the year. Both have doubled in price in that timeframe. Which sounds great, for me because one is strictly an investment property it's all good. For most, the value of your house means shit if you have to pay the same insane prices when you move. Only other way to gain is to sell and move somewhere else out of country, where real estate prices aren't as crazy. Or sell when prices are peaked and rent for a while until the market gets real.
> 
> ...


Issac Newton's first law of real estate; what goes up must come down, lol

I smell a huge housing crash coming.

It's too late for a 'soft landing', it's overbuilt and prices are too high. That's because they kept the interest rates too low for too long to stimulate banking.

The banksters have led us off the cliff and it's about to be October of 1929 all over again.

Waiting to sell until next spring might be too late, but you're right when you ask what's the point if you just have to buy another place at such inflated prices.

My mom's second husband is Canadian and they were thinking of retiring in BC, somewhere between Vancouver and Whistler. I'm afraid the real estate run up is going to ruin their plans.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm afraid the real estate run up is going to ruin their plans.


 I'm afraid your probably right.
Those areas are as bad or worse then Toronto.
I just moved away from my childhood neighbourhood. In the 90's my dad could have bought the house we were living in for 75k last yr the house next door to it.(my friends) house sold for 1.2mil.
Only to be torn down in favour of a triplex that was sold as 799 x 3.
Craziness
Everyone used to laugh at me for renting but I remember my uncle losing his house in the late 80's when the rate spiked and he was already maxed.
People are often blinded by delusions of grandeur and marvel at all this supposed profit they are going to have. My sister constantly informs me of how much equity her house has earned her and I always say sure as long as u move back in with dad or live in your trailer. Otherwise all the profit/equity is getting rolled into the new place and magically it will be as overpriced as your place.
I'd rather build out of pocket and be mortgage free. Determination and will are going to be the foundation of my home not a bubbling burst any moment bank rate.


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## GroErr (Apr 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Issac Newton's first law of real estate; what goes up must come down, lol
> 
> I smell a huge housing crash coming.
> 
> ...


Real estate has always done well by me but long term, but like anything else in investments, timing is everything. Buy in the lows, sell in the highs. Right now people are forking out 1M+ at the peak of a market that's bound to take a dive. Short term gains in real estate are too risky and there seems to be a lot of speculation going on, setting up for a hard fall. A hit on interest rates which is inevitable, the economy takes a dive (or both) and boom, the banks own a bunch of real estate. Fk'rs are like vultures, protecting their downside is all they care about, not putting people out on the street.

I was talking this spring like now, the place I use in the winter but rent in the summer I can sell off and just take the profit. Not in a position to get rid of my primary residence but my mortgage is peanuts so no hurry there. I'm looking at putting it into a place Uruguay. I can get a nice place on the beach or across the road for 250k and pay it outright from the equity in that second property. Thereby the planned 2 weeks in Uruguay in January  But timing wise, it's time to sell...


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## Dr. Who (Apr 13, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> The idea for this whole schmear came from a paper from 1913 in France from a man named Julien Tournois....He was growing Hops and Hemp "underglass" (old term for greenhouse growing) He found that they would "flower most precociously in winter". He observed that they would flower _most _rapidly when allowed _only 6 hours of daylight._
> 
> Further intel
> https://books.google.com/books?id=wh9sW9QII6kC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=Julien+Tournois&source=bl&ots=CVDfEmC5DZ&sig=-lnx1NhB-Puu5zHT4rqocBVjqy8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5V8hVe2PN4SLsAXfq4CADw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Julien Tournois&f=false
> ...


In the end,,, The loss from reduced yield...made this idea a fail for any commercial enterprise......I still stick with my 11 on - 13 off sched.

Don't bother with this BS....


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> In the end,,, The loss from reduced yield...made this idea a fail for any commercial enterprise......I still stick with my 11 on - 13 off sched.
> 
> Don't bother with this BS....


So I'm a lil confused doc
You quoted yourself and then say don't bother with the bs.
So is your post bs or is it your telling everyone else don't bother with reduced schedules because they are bs?


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## Dr. Who (Apr 13, 2017)

torontoke said:


> So I'm a lil confused doc
> You quoted yourself and then say don't bother with the bs.
> So is your post bs or is it your telling everyone else don't bother with reduced schedules because they are bs?


I was kind of giving a report - how ever minor - about the end results of my test....

_Didn't we discuss on a thread somewhere (this one later?), how at around 8.5 to 9 hrs we began to lose too much yield?_

Anyway, yeah, it's that, "Don't bother to try this if you can't afford to lose yield"....The BS being that internet "master grower" that was pushing that he could run at 6 hrs and not loose yield......


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> I was kind of giving a report - how ever minor - about the end results of my test....
> 
> _Didn't we discuss on a thread somewhere (this one later?), how at around 8.5 to 9 hrs we began to lose too much yield?_
> 
> Anyway, yeah, it's that, "Don't bother to try this if you can't afford to those yield"....The BS being that internet "master grower" that was pushing that he could run at 6 hrs and not loose yield......


Ohhh ya I believe we have spoken about this before.
I totally agree 6 hrs was not enough.
However I think 8 is enough for an acceptable harvest. But that's based on my needs and being able to meet them.
Not sure if my results could be scaled up to a commercial sized grow and I have no intention of finding out because I'm not a commercial grower.
I am fairly certain tho that if I ran my light 12/12 the difference in my yield wouldn't be much higher if at all. 
We shall never know now because I'll never go back to long light cycles ever again.
Instead I'll accept any possible loss as a trade off to running a perpetual 45day harvest. Should mean an extra two crops per year to offset any difference. Either way I'm just happy I won't be out unless something catastrophic happens.


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## Bakersfield (Apr 13, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ohhh ya I believe we have spoken about this before.
> I totally agree 6 hrs was not enough.
> However I think 8 is enough for an acceptable harvest. But that's based on my needs and being able to meet them.
> Not sure if my results could be scaled up to a commercial sized grow and I have no intention of finding out because I'm not a commercial grower.
> ...


Great thread! I just discovered your post yesterday and haven't made the time to read it through.
What I've put together so far is 8 hours of flower has allowed you to harvest over 2 grams a watt.
I may have misunderstood your results but it looks to me that this method has definite potential in a commercial setting.

I've got 2 thousands I turned Sunday and I am really tempted to try it but I'm kind of apprehensive.


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2017)

Bakersfield said:


> Great thread! I just discovered your post yesterday and haven't made the time to read it through.
> What I've put together so far is 8 hours of flower has allowed you to harvest over 2 grams a watt.
> I may have misunderstood your results but it looks to me that this method has definite potential in a commercial setting.


The doc says he tried it and lost a lot of yield but yes my last crop produced 2g per watt but bear in mind I used ridiculously low 160watts in my cabinet.
To scale up my cabinet to a commercial grow would cost a fair bit more then the traditional thouie on 12/12
I truly think every grow is as individual as its owner and should be planned and used accordingly.
Just nice to have options imo


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## Bakersfield (Apr 13, 2017)

torontoke said:


> The doc says he tried it and lost a lot of yield but yes my last crop produced 2g per watt but bear in mind I used ridiculously low 160watts in my cabinet.
> To scale up my cabinet to a commercial grow would cost a fair bit more then the traditional thouie on 12/12
> I truly think every grow is as individual as its owner and should be planned and used accordingly.
> Just nice to have options imo


How many days to harvest your frosties?


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2017)

Bakersfield said:


> How many days to harvest your frosties?


45-47 depending what it is.
That's why I was so interested in that katsu wookie nu be posted finishing in 50 under 12/12. I think with glr preflowering them through veg I could get a clone run of something like that closer to 40 days.
Again I wouldn't expect a 40day plant to appease a commercial growers clientele but it would keep me medicated


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2017)

Had to pull my first male today.
Atf x ssdd tester
Literally overnight it was covered balls.
Unbelievable really
Out of 12 seeds I got 2 females.
And neither one had the wow factor I was hoping for.


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## ttystikk (Apr 13, 2017)

torontoke said:


> The doc says he tried it and lost a lot of yield but yes my last crop produced 2g per watt but bear in mind I used ridiculously low 160watts in my cabinet.
> To scale up my cabinet to a commercial grow would cost a fair bit more then the traditional thouie on 12/12
> I truly think every grow is as individual as its owner and should be planned and used accordingly.
> Just nice to have options imo


You have a system that works for your situation, that's the engineering definition of success.

This gives me much to ponder in terms of commercial viability.


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## torontoke (Apr 13, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> You have a system that works for your situation, that's the engineering definition of success.
> 
> This gives me much to ponder in terms of commercial viability.


You've been following this journal long enough sir to know that I've done everything I could to keep it legit and honest.
My results and the process that got me there is here in pictures for the haters.
My expectations were met and surpassed on my admittedly small scale.
Doc is a respected member here and I have no reason to doubt his claims or argue his results on his commercial run. No idea what the details of his grow are. 
I'm sure that the idea we have floated before would work in your setup but what the results would be is a complete unknown til someone does it.

I know this journal has already gotten to long for angry bob but eventually I will have a large enough room to try it myself. So stay tuned for the long haul if u would rather wait n see.


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## Bakersfield (Apr 13, 2017)

torontoke said:


> 45-47 depending what it is.
> That's why I was so interested in that katsu wookie nu be posted finishing in 50 under 12/12. I think with glr preflowering them through veg I could get a clone run of something like that closer to 40 days.
> Again I wouldn't expect a 40day plant to appease a commercial growers clientele but it would keep me medicated


With the reduced time to harvest I could pull an extra crop in each year.
I should look into that Katsu X Wookie cross. I did grow her cousin the Katsu X 88g13/Hashplant but it was not what I was looking for, but she was a definite comatose Indica.
I have what is the earliest plant I've ever grown going at the moment. I was given a 5 pack of SCOURGE* ( *Girl Scout cookies x Chem 4 X SKS) from GLG. I ended up with 4 girls, 3 are typical look to run 9 weeks while 1 is almost done at 39 days. She was growing just like her sibs when it seemed like she just stopped growing and ripened over the last week.
She's a long lanky little nug(mini nug) freak that has an extremely loud sweet skunk lemon terpene profile. If she smokes as good as she smells I will Reveg and play around with her. It might make some nice early chucks or it might make garbage.


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## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> You've been following this journal long enough sir to know that I've done everything I could to keep it legit and honest.
> My results and the process that got me there is here in pictures for the haters.
> My expectations were met and surpassed on my admittedly small scale.
> Doc is a respected member here and I have no reason to doubt his claims or argue his results on his commercial run. No idea what the details of his grow are.
> ...


I have a better idea; let's both do it!

With a few variants between our approaches, and then we can both learn twice as fast.


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## torontoke (Apr 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I have a better idea; let's both do it!
> 
> With a few variants between our approaches, and then we can both learn twice as fast.


I'm working on it sir and nothing would make me happier then being able to scale It up times 10.
As soon as I have a big enough area the testng will start.


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## Dr. Who (Apr 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> The doc says he tried it and lost a lot of yield but yes my last crop produced 2g per watt but bear in mind I used ridiculously low 160watts in my cabinet.
> To scale up my cabinet to a commercial grow would cost a fair bit more then the traditional thouie on 12/12
> I truly think every grow is as individual as its owner and should be planned and used accordingly.
> Just nice to have options imo


For me, yeah.....I hit the wall at about 8.5 - 8 was for sure the limit I found.....I've got the rotation so fixed now, that it would be a pain to readjust for faster finish and the actions of the differing strains run.

Yet, on long running Sativa's like my Vietnamese Black....I do a reduction in lighting times by reducing the time (on) by 15 min a week from a 12/12 start (the only plant I'll give a 12/12 start to too.). I do not begin the time reduction till week 8. This will actually make that 18 week strain finish at 16. This strain was a bitch to get to finish at all for a bit. The reduction method has made her a solid finisher....

I run that strain for Christmas.....


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## torontoke (Apr 14, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> For me, yeah.....I hit the wall at about 8.5 - 8 was for sure the limit I found.....I've got the rotation so fixed now, that it would be a pain to readjust for faster finish and the actions of the differing strains run.
> 
> Yet, on long running Sativa's like my Vietnamese Black....I do a reduction in lighting times by reducing the time (on) by 15 min a week from a 12/12 start (the only plant I'll give a 12/12 start to too.). I do not begin the time reduction till week 8. This will actually make that 18 week strain finish at 16. This strain was a bitch to get to finish at all for a bit. The reduction method has made her a solid finisher....
> 
> I run that strain for Christmas.....


Dang you're a much more patient man than I.
Wouldn't even consider running a 16-18week strain indoors myself. I'm pulling hair out trying to get consistently under 7-8weeks. 
Just goes to show you the diversity in our wants and needs.
I'm glad you at least found the same results of speeding them up if only a few weeks faster. Makes my claims a lil more believable in one sense and I appreciate that we can discuss it like civilized people.
How big was the commercial run u tried and under what kind of lighting? If you don't mind me asking.


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## Dr. Who (Apr 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Dang you're a much more patient man than I.
> Wouldn't even consider running a 16-18week strain indoors myself. I'm pulling hair out trying to get consistently under 7-8weeks.
> Just goes to show you the diversity in our wants and needs.
> I'm glad you at least found the same results of speeding them up if only a few weeks faster. Makes my claims a lil more believable in one sense and I appreciate that we can discuss it like civilized people.
> How big was the commercial run u tried and under what kind of lighting? If you don't mind me asking.



I ran it in a 30K (in bloom) building. 1K HPS, 3 strains. Ghost OG, Kosher Kush and Ex cheese..120 plants in bloom.

The com ops are now sold to a group doing the "legal" growing for disp. thing here in MI....Been doing some consulting work getting them going as they want to be online for the beginning of 2018 for the opening of the first "legal" med disp's sense Schutte took over and fucked up our disp laws.....I look at these guys and shake my head.....There is going to be the same problems as Canada is having.....

Contaminated meds, lower quality from plants harvested on a time basis or a sched. They're owned by business school idiots and not real growers....They don't give a shit about quality by harvest. It's all about the money.....Yeah I know but, I'm "helping" because they pay me a stupid amount and it spends just like every other dollar earned....I did turn them down for a full time in charge job.....I'd have to walk the first time they said to "treat the problem and harvest it anyway".......

Maybe my "problem" a year before last was not so bad....The new law making 3 legal growing levels made my already set to go buildings that were shuttered. Worth about 2.5 times what it cost me to buy and fit them out.....

I still have the new personal building we built. Projects are somewhere else.


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## torontoke (Apr 15, 2017)

I haven't quit
Just waiting through the boring doesn't look like much is happening stage.


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2017)

Been a male chopping party in the cabinet the last couple weeks.
Having the absolute worst luck with male/female ratios lately. 5 years ago I swore that almost all seeds I bought we're feminized even if they were regular.
Now it seems like reg beans were somehow male'd.

Seriously wish more of the stuff I'm after came fem

Anyway here's a few week 2 bud shots of two females I'm looking forward to.

More cowbell 
Grandpasbreath


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## mr. childs (Apr 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> 5 years ago I swore that almost all seeds I bought we're feminized even if they were regular.


 what changed? as you became a great grower have you paid less attention to your technique that produced a greater f to m ratio ?


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> what changed? as you became a great grower have you paid less attention to your technique that produced a greater f to m ratio ?


Lol I'm no where near a great grower sir.
I think it's always been the luck of the draw and while some things in life are on an upswing for me something has to be on a downswing.
I happen to love variety and possibilities so I tend to prefer reg seeds.
Bodhi being the breeder I've ran most the last couple years and even in other growers rooms I've been in the m/f ratio is far less then 50/50
Not complaining because the females that do show are nice but no one would be happier then me to see dank sinatra fems or ssdd fems


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## farmerfischer (Apr 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol I'm no where near a great grower sir.
> I think it's always been the luck of the draw and while some things in life are on an upswing for me something has to be on a downswing.
> I happen to love variety and possibilities so I tend to prefer reg seeds.
> Bodhi being the breeder I've ran most the last couple years and even in other growers rooms I've been in the m/f ratio is far less then 50/50
> Not complaining because the females that do show are nice but no one would be happier then me to see dank sinatra fems or ssdd fems


I'm not sure how true It is, but I read somewhere that temps during germination and during the seedling stage can influence the female/ male ratio.. I'll see if I can't find the literature on it..


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> I'm not sure how true It is, but I read somewhere that temps during germination and during the seedling stage can influence the female/ male ratio.. I'll see if I can't find the literature on it..


I've read tons on the subject myself but I always come back to the simplist logical way to ignore all the myths of predetermined sex. If temps determined sex then wouldn't they all be either male or female since they were all kept relatively the same temp?
If temp colour shape smell or anything else could reliably be used then there would be a giant golden statue made for the guy that proves it. Til then you can only play the hand you're dealt


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## farmerfischer (Apr 23, 2017)

Well I'm wrong kind of.. Temp and humidity influences sex during seedling stage, like during the second and third leaves.. Tryed copying and pasteing but only the word "is" pasted.lol.. Jorge servontes ( sure I spelled his name wrong) has publishing's on this topic.


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## farmerfischer (Apr 23, 2017)

Make your own fems.. Easiest way is to over ripen your female plants by letting then go two weeks longer( if it's an eight week flowering time, go to ten weeks) by doing this some plants will throw out nanners. Use the pollen on the next run of females.


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> Well I'm wrong kind of.. Temp and humidity influences sex during seedling stage, like during the second and third leaves.. Tryed copying and pasteing but only the word "is" pasted.lol.. Jorge servontes ( sure I spelled his name wrong) has publishing's on this topic.


Again my rebuttal is still valid sir
If you have 100 seedlings in the same area and they all get the same amount of light/water/air/temp then wouldn't they all be either male or female based on the environment?
It's like saying a child's sex isn't decided til elementary school which is false without the help of a surgeon and a shrink.


farmerfischer said:


> Make your own fems.. Easiest way is to over ripen your female plants by letting then go two weeks longer( if it's an eight week flowering time, go to ten weeks) by doing this some plants will throw out nanners. Use the pollen on the next run of females.


I really wish I had the time space and patience to do this but as of right now I can't.
I'd really love to get into more of my own seed runs and making crosses and f2,3's
Even some fems.
Maybe once I have enough bud stockpiled I could do a few


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## zoic (Apr 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Been a male chopping party in the cabinet the last couple weeks.
> Having the absolute worst luck with male/female ratios lately. 5 years ago I swore that almost all seeds I bought we're feminized even if they were regular.
> Now it seems like reg beans were somehow male'd.


Sad to hear you are getting so many males. I feel rather lucky with the bag seed I have been using. I have 5 out 6 that are females. I killed the male as soon as he reared his ugly head errr... balls, LOL. Since it is just my first grow I want to keep my eye on the prize.
I am 3 weeks into flower now so good times ahead.


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2017)

zoic said:


> Sad to hear you are getting so many males. I feel rather lucky with the bag seed I have been using. I have 5 out 6 that are females. I killed the male as soon as he reared his ugly head errr... balls, LOL. Since it is just my first grow I want to keep my eye on the prize.
> I am 3 weeks into flower now so good times ahead.


Keep a close eye out for bananas bud
Chances are if the bag had seed it selfed and the same could happen to your bud if u don't catch them in time.
If the bud was seeded naturally through pollination it would be loaded. Imo anyway
Not knocking your gear just rather warn ya ahead of time.
Eye on the prize is a great attitude.
Guaranteed to not get lost if u can always see where you're goin.


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## zoic (Apr 23, 2017)

Thx. I appreciate the input and I have seen lots of pics of them so I am watching closely. With all the damn stretching mine did they will be hard pressed to hide. Since 3 of the Girl Scout Cookies are in there still I am sure to get some decent bud. No idea of the actual genetics but the GSC they came from was top shelf.


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## SSGrower (Apr 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol I'm no where near a great grower sir.
> I think it's always been the luck of the draw and while some things in life are on an upswing for me something has to be on a downswing.
> I happen to love variety and possibilities so I tend to prefer reg seeds.
> Bodhi being the breeder I've ran most the last couple years and even in other growers rooms I've been in the m/f ratio is far less then 50/50
> Not complaining because the females that do show are nice but no one would be happier then me to see dank sinatra fems or ssdd fems


Any suspicion this would be due to the sharp reduction in light? Do you notice it when you pre flower?
I feel like i used to get close to 70/30 when I used to coddle them, now my environment less ideal closer to 50/50. I worry about the ruderalis "contamination" and genetic weakness in femed seeds, unfortunatly I think the greed has already contamitaed the process and question if there are any reliable sources of seed or genetics. Supposedly can get clone only strains not developed in co, so how did they get here? If they broke the law by importing they shouldnt have been able to register the plant? IMO they (dispensaries) are lying and I dont have any reason it would be any different in the mj holy land of california. The best product will continue to be produced "underground" by passionate individuals with less regard for monitary profit than the unscrupulious legal black market johnny come latelys.

I step down now. Carry on good sir


----------



## whitebb2727 (Apr 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Dang you're a much more patient man than I.
> Wouldn't even consider running a 16-18week strain indoors myself. I'm pulling hair out trying to get consistently under 7-8weeks.
> Just goes to show you the diversity in our wants and needs.
> I'm glad you at least found the same results of speeding them up if only a few weeks faster. Makes my claims a lil more believable in one sense and I appreciate that we can discuss it like civilized people.
> How big was the commercial run u tried and under what kind of lighting? If you don't mind me asking.


I know that those sativas take a long time but they worth it. I personally love long flowering sativas. The high is more complex.

I have a special haze going right now. Its a Neville's haze cross. I also have some gear from rm3 that is on the pure sativa side. 

Got several new strains running. I screw it and kept one good male and opened my cab and shook the he'll out of it. Ill have hundreds of seeds and about a dozen crosses. 

I'm working on an auto cross. It will be on the sativa side. 

Different strokes for different folks. I never really cared for couch lock indicas.


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## SSGrower (Apr 23, 2017)

zoic said:


> Thx. I appreciate the input and I have seen lots of pics of them so I am watching closely. With all the damn stretching mine did they will be hard pressed to hide. Since 3 of the Girl Scout Cookies are in there still I am sure to get some decent bud. No idea of the actual genetics but the GSC they came from was top shelf.


This is more likely a situation like @farmerfischer mentioned above imo, sometimes people let them go long to maximize wt.


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## whitebb2727 (Apr 23, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> I'm not sure how true It is, but I read somewhere that temps during germination and during the seedling stage can influence the female/ male ratio.. I'll see if I can't find the literature on it..


I find that temps in the high 70's to low 80's, blue spectrum and around 50-60% humidity produce more females.

Can I prove it? No, I can not. Just an observation.


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## whitebb2727 (Apr 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Keep a close eye out for bananas bud
> Chances are if the bag had seed it selfed and the same could happen to your bud if u don't catch them in time.
> If the bud was seeded naturally through pollination it would be loaded. Imo anyway
> Not knocking your gear just rather warn ya ahead of time.
> ...


Actually I find that not to be true. I grew nothing but bag and brick seeds for 10 years before I ever ordered any.

Heavily seeded buds will be either reg seeds produced by a male or made by a really bad (true herm) plant.

Lightly to medium seeded buds tend to produce females with a slightly higher chance of herms. 

I wouldn't worry a bit about bag seed.

Though I would still watch it.


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## SSGrower (Apr 23, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> I find that temps in the high 70's to low 80's, blue spectrum and around 50-60% humidity produce more females.
> 
> Can I prove it? No, I can not. Just an observation.


I can be convinced to agree, my higher ratios were also under a mh. No evidence but I prefer nature over nuture.


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Any suspicion this would be due to the sharp reduction in light? Do you notice it when you pre flower?
> I feel like i used to get close to 70/30 when I used to coddle them, now my environment less ideal closer to 50/50. I worry about the ruderalis "contamination" and genetic weakness in femed seeds, unfortunatly I think the greed has already contamitaed the process and question if there are any reliable sources of seed or genetics. Supposedly can get clone only strains not developed in co, so how did they get here? If they broke the law by importing they shouldnt have been able to register the plant? IMO they (dispensaries) are lying and I dont have any reason it would be any different in the mj holy land of california. The best product will continue to be produced "underground" by passionate individuals with less regard for monitary profit than the unscrupulious legal black market johnny come latelys.
> 
> I step down now. Carry on good sir


No I actually noticed the ratio going for a shit when I went to the smaller more boutique breeders and chucks?
I was referring more to when I was using the more mass produced dutchie stuff that was probably bred using nothing but fems and herms.
Again if it were light or temp causing the ratio it would be all or none wouldn't it?


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## torontoke (Apr 23, 2017)

I agree environment could cause a herm but determining sex idk
I'm sure way smarter people then I are still trying to figure that one out it would save farmers a lot of time n money


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## SSGrower (Apr 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No I actually noticed the ratio going for a shit when I went to the smaller more boutique breeders and chucks?
> I was referring more to when I was using the more mass produced dutchie stuff that was probably bred using nothing but fems and herms.
> Again if it were light or temp causing the ratio it would be all or none wouldn't it?


Not necessarily. I give you the word propenceity (sp?). Its a game of odds, ideal environment stacks odds in favor of females cause it only takes 1 male to polinate 100 females. I think its an evolutionary charicteristic more females = more seeds, but I have no proof only opinion.


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## SSGrower (Apr 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I agree environment could cause a herm but determining sex idk
> I'm sure way smarter people then I are still trying to figure that one out it would save farmers a lot of time n money


Not going to claim anything but lately been segregating based on a "feeling", this last time I put 3 aside, 2 were males.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 24, 2017)

Well all this talk of seeds has given me a kick in the rear to germ a bunch of stuff and just throw it outdoors.
So I put a few seeds in paper towel today and first week of June they are going outside.
I'll keep a close eye on them and pull all males except the best rku male.
Strains are
Heisenberg special fem
Knockout fem
Grandmastertahoe
Roadkill unicorn

Should make a nice collection of crosses


----------



## farmerfischer (Apr 24, 2017)

Alright !!! Cool beans. It's always nice to have a few flavors on hand.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 24, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> Alright !!! Cool beans. It's always nice to have a few flavors on hand.


Agreed
Hopefully something nice comes out of them.
Once they are flowering I'll post some progress pics and updates
My cup has run over so it would be nice to be able to pay forward some generosity shown to me


----------



## torontoke (Apr 25, 2017)




----------



## ScaryGaryLed (Apr 25, 2017)

double the lumens ifyou run 8. what light are u running? hps?

give em more juice, they look thrusty


----------



## torontoke (Apr 26, 2017)

ScaryGaryLed said:


> double the lumens ifyou run 8. what light are u running? hps?
> 
> give em more juice, they look thrusty


I run led boards
Plenty of juice
They are dimmed down so the plants can get used to the environment


----------



## farmerfischer (Apr 26, 2017)

Hi tt. What's the deal with haven? It's like it don't exist anymore.. Just some search engine pops up as stonerhaven.. Fucking weird


----------



## farmerfischer (Apr 26, 2017)

Just tried again and nothing there..


----------



## torontoke (Apr 26, 2017)

I'm not sure
Found that weird too
Give em a day or two they will fix it


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 26, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm not sure
> Found that weird too
> Give em a day or two they will fix it


I'm on there as well, down for me too.

Hope they aren't gone for good...


----------



## torontoke (Apr 26, 2017)

Today marks their 5 year anniversary so I'm sure it will be back


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 26, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Today marks their 5 year anniversary so I'm sure it will be back


Oops, someone forgot to pay the web hosting bill lol


----------



## torontoke (Apr 27, 2017)




----------



## zoic (Apr 27, 2017)

Well I noticed you are at the same stage of flowering as me. I also noticed this is your third run since I started my first grow, LOL. I will definitely aspire to achieve such a precise rotation once I can get more juice (light).

Before I can spend more money on better equipment I need to show the wife I can produce enough to make it all worthwhile. Now considering how well these plants a doing I think I have a chance. Selling her on the idea that better equipment produce a greater yield is going to be no problem, she is the one with the green thumb, LOL.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 27, 2017)

zoic said:


> Well I noticed you are at the same stage of flowering as me. I also noticed this is your third run since I started my first grow, LOL. I will definitely aspire to achieve such a precise rotation once I can get more juice (light).
> 
> Before I can spend more money on better equipment I need to show the wife I can produce enough to make it all worthwhile. Now considering how well these plants a doing I think I have a chance. Selling her on the idea that better equipment produce a greater yield is going to be no problem, she is the one with the green thumb, LOL.


I don't tend to take compliments very well sir but I do appreciate it.
Not really any rocket science going on.
I start twice as many plants as I plan to flower. 
After removing the now expected males it allows me to veg the left overs for longer then I ever really plan too.
The light in my veg tent is embarrassing but it works for now. I need to get the rotation going even better with bigger fuller plants.


----------



## zoic (Apr 27, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Not really any rocket science going on.


Of course not, but like anything, growing is an acquired skill. Your methods be they regular or experimental are clearly working for you. I have been inspired to try some and the results have been awesome. I have read many other threads as well and gleaned some great tips along the way. By far though, your thread is the most interesting, that is all I am trying to say.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 27, 2017)

zoic said:


> Of course not, but like anything, growing is an acquired skill. Your methods be they regular or experimental are clearly working for you. I have been inspired to try some and the results have been awesome. I have read many other threads as well and gleaned some great tips along the way. By far though, your thread is the most interesting, that is all I am trying to say.



Thanks buddy


----------



## torontoke (Apr 28, 2017)

All the seeds I started from a generous fellow member have germed and are in solo hempy cups.
Seeing as how I'm now insanely over my plant count lol as if I have one, now I'm thinking of putting even more outside in a month.
4 Heisenberg fem
6 ko fems
4 rku
6 gmt
4 landos stash
4 deadhead x lbl
4 tigermountain 

May the best male win and lots of chucks will be shared.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 30, 2017)




----------



## zoic (Apr 30, 2017)

So you germinated 32 seeds, and earlier you mentioned you usually only keep half.
Does that include the male you are going to keep?
Do you pollinate more than one female each round?

Fascinating stuff really. Again I learned something, plant more, grow less. Why waste months on a so so plant when you can just pop more seeds and pick the cream of the crop. Thanks.


----------



## torontoke (Apr 30, 2017)

zoic said:


> So you germinated 32 seeds, and earlier you mentioned you usually only keep half.
> Does that include the male you are going to keep?
> Do you pollinate more than one female each round?
> 
> Fascinating stuff really. Again I learned something, plant more, grow less. Why waste months on a so so plant when you can just pop more seeds and pick the cream of the crop. Thanks.


Lately it seems as tho I am keeping more n more each round.
Last run I flowered 5 plants and this run I'm trying 8 to bump my grams per watt up a lil more.
Unfortunately there's no way to know how many males you end up killing off so I assume at least 50%
So out of the 32 seeds u mentioned, 16 probably more will be male so gone.
Now out of those 16 8 went into my flower cabinet for 45-whatever amount of days they take and the other 8 are in my veg tent.
So since they are vegging and I have to assume 4 are male I popped another big bunch of seed and so on.

Thinking the plants in my cabinet are probably the last plants I'm flowering indoor for awhile.
I've been working on another spot and everything in my tent is going outside by June 1


----------



## torontoke (Apr 30, 2017)

The outdoor plants I will keep one beast looking male and cross my fingers he's a stud. Should leave me with enough seed and buds to smoke for a long while.


----------



## zoic (Apr 30, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thinking the plants in my cabinet are probably the last plants I'm flowering indoor for awhile.
> I've been working on another spot and everything in my tent is going outside by June 1


Cool. There are a lot of wooded areas around me so hopefully I can find a small clearing off the beaten path to start something. I need to keep it close and simple so I have enough energy to maintain it. My back yard has a "cut through" path behind the back fence so I am worried about teens that use it the path spotting my grow, free for the pickin'. I am thinking of building a grow box with lights for the backyard, to keep things hidden from view.


----------



## torontoke (May 1, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (May 4, 2017)

More cowbell week 3
 
Grandpasbreath 
 
Elfinstone
 
Dream beaver is a week and a half behind


----------



## torontoke (May 4, 2017)

Wow
Can't believe I've made 5000 posts!
Figured I'd do it here then in some random thread belonging to someone arguing about internet penis size lmao


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Wow
> Can't believe I've made 5000 posts!
> Figured I'd do it here then in some random thread belonging to someone arguing about internet penis size lmao


Congrats, bro! Puts you in a special club; people who post too much, lol


----------



## torontoke (May 4, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Congrats, bro! Puts you in a special club; people who post too much, lol


Yup
Made me realize I better up my real life game lol


----------



## zoic (May 5, 2017)

Congrats on the milestone, how is the keyboard looking, LOL.
FWIW this is real life to me. I does not matter if this Internet forum is our meeting place, or the coffee shop, or the golf course. We are all real, ergo this is real life. I spent 3 years with 20,000 posts in the Linspire forum and I would probably still be doing that if it had not turned into vaporware.


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)

zoic said:


> Congrats on the milestone, how is the keyboard looking, LOL.
> FWIW this is real life to me. I does not matter if this Internet forum is our meeting place, or the coffee shop, or the golf course. We are all real, ergo this is real life. I spent 3 years with 20,000 posts in the Linspire forum and I would probably still be doing that if it had not turned into vaporware.


The weird part is I have really dialed back my posting and I all but ignore the Canadian patient section now.
For the last year or so I tend to stick to only a couple threads.
I agree in one sense that this is just as good a meeting place but I'm not sure that most folks on here would come across the same way irl.


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)

Well I'm in a good mood so I figured I'd snap a few pics.

Here's one for the people saying reduced hours isnt getting the same "frost"

Week3 dream beaver


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)

More cowbell week 3 lower


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)




----------



## zoic (May 5, 2017)

Nice frost. I brought my magnifier upstairs yesterday to see if I had any and I was ticked pink when I discovered I did not need to magnify to see it. I used it anyway and now I can see they are still clear of course.


----------



## GroErr (May 5, 2017)

Looking great in there, not seeing any whitespace in there, should be a good haul


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Looking great in there, not seeing any whitespace in there, should be a good haul


Thank u sir
Ya she's about as full as possible 
Probably walking the tight rope leaning to overcrowded but we shall see.
This should be my last run in this cabinet at least for a lil while.
Really hoping to push a full lb out of it and then I'll walk away into the sunset with my head held high


----------



## GroErr (May 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thank u sir
> Ya she's about as full as possible
> Probably walking the tight rope leaning to overcrowded but we shall see.
> This should be my last run in this cabinet at least for a lil while.
> Really hoping to push a full lb out of it and then I'll walk away into the sunset with my head held high


Doesn't look over the top crowded, lots of airflow and you're good. Lol, pull an elbow and walk into the sunset smoking a fatty, nice!


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> The weird part is I have really dialed back my posting and I all but ignore the Canadian patient section now.
> For the last year or so I tend to stick to only a couple threads.
> I agree in one sense that this is just as good a meeting place but I'm not sure that most folks on here would come across the same way irl.


Only us honest ones.


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thank u sir
> Ya she's about as full as possible
> Probably walking the tight rope leaning to overcrowded but we shall see.
> This should be my last run in this cabinet at least for a lil while.
> Really hoping to push a full lb out of it and then I'll walk away into the sunset with my head held high


Ahhhh don't bail on me! Us good guys gotta stick together!


----------



## 666888 (May 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ok so im not sure if anyone else had attempted to actually try this new lighting schedule or if anyone read the article.
> Anyhow in skunks feb/march issue there was an article on alternative lighting schedules and i was very curious if their is any validity to it and figure the best way to find out is to try it myself.
> 
> Basically the article says that a flowering or fruiting plant only needs a 6 hr light schedule so 6/18 is supposed to give you tighter bigger fatter buds in less flowering time than 12:12


They need at least 6 hours of direct sunlight(light), they still need some light, or they will mature real quick with fuck all on them


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Only us honest ones.


I'd like to think I would come across the same way in real life.


ttystikk said:


> Ahhhh don't bail on me! Us good guys gotta stick together!


Your to kind as always tty 
Not gonna bail completely but perhaps take on a different challenge.
Every day I come across a post on a website where someone's running a reduced flowering cycle of even only 30mins less so It became more normal now to see alternative cycles. This means it's not just me anymore no need to keep doing the same ol same ol.
I'm sure I'll come up with something to keep the gears turning.

Still gotta hit my goal first which would be a ridiculously high gram per watt so we'll see.
I'm considering it a personal challenge now


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)

666888 said:


> They need at least 6 hours of direct sunlight(light), they still need some light, or they will mature real quick with fuck all on them


Thanks
I've read the thread


----------



## GroErr (May 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'd like to think I would come across the same way in real life.
> 
> Your to kind as always tty
> Not gonna bail completely but perhaps take on a different challenge.
> ...


I'm down an hour from my original 12.5/11.5. This round at 11.5/12.5 is maturing way faster than 12.5/11.5 or 12/12 which I ran last round. Almost too fast, I have a couple of phenos that if I were a newb I'd be "are they done yet?". I may keep the 11.5/12.5 another round and turn off the initiators (660nm and 730nm) next round to see if they're causing the maturation of the buds to speed up so much at this schedule. Not complaining just observing a significantly faster maturation rate. My Blue Harley and Blue Pyramid look done (day 45 yesterday) but can use at least another week to fatten and tighten up the buds. If I pulled them now they'd probably be fine potency-wise, but I'd lose a bunch of weight. The bud size and density are what they'd normally be at week 5 to 5 1/2 in past runs. Some fine tuning now and it looks like I'll be back to the quick finish times I was getting under CMH


----------



## 666888 (May 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks
> I've read the thread


I didn't


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)

666888 said:


> I didn't


Me either


----------



## ANC (May 5, 2017)

Wassup with that aircooled motor? I keep meaning to ask you.


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)

ANC said:


> Wassup with that aircooled motor? I keep meaning to ask you.


It was 2175cc of gas chugging funness 
It's since been replaced but the new one is shy.


----------



## ANC (May 5, 2017)

nice, I have a 78 1600 twinport, I haven't put 20 miles on in 4 years of ownership, it is a project car.
The engine already rebuilt, as well as all mechanicals, done. I'm slowly but surely redoing some imperfections in the paint job,
I redid the looms, as well as brake system, everything from the soft lines out, bearings, transmision fluid, a couple of hundred hours in, but on the backburner now.


----------



## torontoke (May 5, 2017)

I have a couple dubs
One is beyond drivability with air suspension huge rims kandy paint leather you name it.
The other is rough but streetable.
Been into the vw scene for a few decades.
That's how I'd love to live out my days flipping ol dubs


----------



## torontoke (May 6, 2017)

This more cowbell smells insane.
Chocolate shortbread cookie smell
 
Getting jungly in there


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2017)

ANC said:


> nice, I have a 78 1600 twinport, I haven't put 20 miles on in 4 years of ownership, it is a project car.
> The engine already rebuilt, as well as all mechanicals, done. I'm slowly but surely redoing some imperfections in the paint job,
> I redid the looms, as well as brake system, everything from the soft lines out, bearings, transmision fluid, a couple of hundred hours in, but on the backburner now.





torontoke said:


> I have a couple dubs
> One is beyond drivability with air suspension huge rims kandy paint leather you name it.
> The other is rough but streetable.
> Been into the vw scene for a few decades.
> That's how I'd love to live out my days flipping ol dubs


Been meaning to ask a die hard V Dub fan or two what y'all think of the Subaru flat 4 cylinder engine and the cars? Do you like them? Are they too foreign?

I've even met several people who have swapped a modern Subie 2.5 into various classic VW chassis, with apparently great results!

What do you guys *really* think?


----------



## torontoke (May 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Been meaning to ask a die hard V Dub fan or two what y'all think of the Subaru flat 4 cylinder engine and the cars? Do you like them? Are they too foreign?
> 
> I've even met several people who have swapped a modern Subie 2.5 into various classic VW chassis, with apparently great results!
> 
> What do you guys *really* think?


My gf has a subbie 
I keep threatening that I'm stealing the motor when the car rots.
They are amazing cars imo
Loved the sales/marketing idea to only use a few blocks so that a lot of engine parts are interchangeable. 
The subbie motors in vws are super fast but kind of a slap in the face to the die hard purists.
If I wanted a radiator in my car I'd settle for a nicer faster car first and not need to show horn it in.


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> My gf has a subbie
> I keep threatening that I'm stealing the motor when the car rots.
> They are amazing cars imo
> Loved the sales/marketing idea to only use a few blocks so that a lot of engine parts are interchangeable.
> ...


So I hear you on the purist angle.

But they are a big step into the modern world in nearly every way, considering that nearly alive when it was designed is long gone now.

I've played with my fair share of big inch '60s era American V8 iron, so I know how it feels.

That said, if I'm going to get back under the hood and tinker again, it's going to be an electric car. Maybe a fuel cell car, but that's not much different.


----------



## torontoke (May 7, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> So I hear you on the purist angle.
> 
> But they are a big step into the modern world in nearly every way, considering that nearly alive when it was designed is long gone now.
> 
> ...


I'm the worst person to really comment on the purist angle since I've already admitted to chopping up a good year dub to customize it and fit in air suspension and big rims. But there truly is something magical about the old air cooled motors.
Every conversion swap I've seen ends up looking chopped up and like it doesn't fit.
Electric motors in vws is fairly easy and straight forward but battery storage becomes an issue and again why not just start with a bigger vehicle.
Guess it all comes down to personal preference and the real reason why the person loves the vw


----------



## torontoke (May 8, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (May 8, 2017)




----------



## ANC (May 8, 2017)

They sell some awesome electric conversions for beetles.
Getting a subbie in there is loads of work and cutting. The electric kit just splines into the gearbox.


----------



## torontoke (May 8, 2017)

ANC said:


> They sell some awesome electric conversions for beetles.
> Getting a subbie in there is loads of work and cutting. The electric kit just splines into the gearbox.


I've done both
The sub conversion broke my heart. My old neighbor cut up an original 56 oval to put it in. Rad up front was a pita
The electric was noisey gutless and didn't last 3 hrs on a full charge.
The 914 block I'm running now is my favourite so far. Tons of bottom and top end.
Hauls ass and scares me tbh


----------



## ANC (May 8, 2017)

I'd rather have the 914 though, or at least a Karmann.


----------



## ttystikk (May 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3938630 View attachment 3938631 View attachment 3938633 View attachment 3938634


Pretty! What day of bloom are these?


----------



## torontoke (May 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Pretty! What day of bloom are these?


Thanks 
Last day of week 3 so day 22ish


----------



## ttystikk (May 8, 2017)

ANC said:


> They sell some awesome electric conversions for beetles.
> Getting a subbie in there is loads of work and cutting. The electric kit just splines into the gearbox.





torontoke said:


> I've done both
> The sub conversion broke my heart. My old neighbor cut up an original 56 oval to put it in. Rad up front was a pita
> The electric was noisey gutless and didn't last 3 hrs on a full charge.
> The 914 block I'm running now is my favourite so far. Tons of bottom and top end.
> Hauls ass and scares me tbh


So conversions can be done, but not necessarily worth it.

Honestly, I aspire to a Tesla Model S and just leave it stock.


----------



## torontoke (May 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> So conversions can be done, but not necessarily worth it.
> 
> Honestly, I aspire to a Tesla Model S and just leave it stock.


They have kits for everything now a days.
Whether you want to spend the money is a different matter all together lol
Oddest one I've seen yet was an electric van that had a bed and bench as a battery bank with a pair of small motors u could carry by hand in the back.
Supposedly it had an alternator on every axle and 3 in the motor area. Ran for 2 days or something crazy.
Guy sold the prototype and vanished.

The tesla is a nice car but I think it's overpriced due to some impractical options.


----------



## ttystikk (May 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> They have kits for everything now a days.
> Whether you want to spend the money is a different matter all together lol
> Oddest one I've seen yet was an electric van that had a bed and bench as a battery bank with a pair of small motors u could carry by hand in the back.
> Supposedly it had an alternator on every axle and 3 in the motor area. Ran for 2 days or something crazy.
> ...


I buy used so as to not have to pay for such expensive options.

Interesting about the guy and his van.


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2017)

Dream beaver day 23 since flip.
Starting to fill out and really push out the glitter.  
Elfinstone day23
 
 
More cowbell d 23
 
 
Grandpasbreath


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2017)

Space monkey
Is a week behind
Day 16


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2017)




----------



## GroErr (May 9, 2017)

Coming along nicely  That dream beaver looks like a frosty beatch, genetics look like quite a mix of dank lines, looks like a sat-leaning pheno you have there so likely a longer runner. Is that a first from seed or clone?


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Coming along nicely  That dream beaver looks like a frosty beatch, genetics look like quite a mix of dank lines, looks like a sat-leaning pheno you have there so likely a longer runner. Is that a first from seed or clone?


Everything is from seed bud
The 1elfinstone and both space monkeys are really sat leaning and have the skinniest fans. Someone in the bodhi thread said elfinstone usually goes 10-12 weeks I really hope the schedule pushes them quicker.
We'll see soon enough.
I tried to pick strains that were from all ends of the spectrum and after this run I'll have tried every bodhi male I think.


----------



## GroErr (May 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Everything is from seed bud
> The 1elfinstone and both space monkeys are really sat leaning and have the skinniest fans. Someone in the bodhi thread said elfinstone usually goes 10-12 weeks I really hope the schedule pushes them quicker.
> We'll see soon enough.
> I tried to pick strains that were from all ends of the spectrum and after this run I'll have tried every bodhi male I think.


Nice, never thought of the schedule but yeah that should make them all run shorter. Definitely saw accelerated maturation in my current round at 11.5/12.5, looks like I'll be pulling the lot within 8 weeks and several have been running closer to 9 weeks  A couple could be pulled now at day 50, leaving them a few more days because I think they can still gain a bit of weight.


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Nice, never thought of the schedule but yeah that should make them all run shorter. Definitely saw accelerated maturation in my current round at 11.5/12.5, looks like I'll be pulling the lot within 8 weeks and several have been running closer to 9 weeks  A couple could be pulled now at day 50, leaving them a few more days because I think they can still gain a bit of weight.


It's been my experience that a shortened schedule speeds them up significantly.
And led also helps speed them up.
The trick may be getting them to fatten up in a now much more limited time frame.
My last run the longest plant went 47 days and that was 65-75%saty but these will run longer then that.
With that guys estimation that 10-12 is the average I should get a better idea of how much the way I do things does in fact speed them up.
By looking at them tho I'd say neither one looks its actual age or maybe my opinion is biased.
That dream beaver is insane and I can't believe how much of it is already oozing trics even the stems and fan stems are covered. Has a crazy sour floor polish smell that sticks to my fingers all day if I touch it


----------



## GroErr (May 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> It's been my experience that a shortened schedule speeds them up significantly.
> And led also helps speed them up.
> The trick may be getting them to fatten up in a now much more limited time frame.
> My last run the longest plant went 47 days and that was 65-75%saty but these will run longer then that.
> ...


Yeah that was actually concerning me for the last couple of weeks as they looked like they were 7 weeks at 5 1/2 weeks from a maturation perspective (hairs receding and turning brown early). But the last few days, once they hit around day 45 they started getting the density I was expecting and continue putting on weight. I'm not trying to get to say 7 weeks from a finish perspective but under 8 weeks for most of my strains would be great and looks like I may have hit it already. The Panama's I'm running look at least a week or two ahead of where they should be which is encouraging, and fat-ass buds to boot. Yeah that dream beaver looks like it'll produce a lot of resin, starting to cover those huge leaves already


----------



## torontoke (May 9, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Yeah that was actually concerning me for the last couple of weeks as they looked like they were 7 weeks at 5 1/2 weeks from a maturation perspective (hairs receding and turning brown early). But the last few days, once they hit around day 45 they started getting the density I was expecting and continue putting on weight. I'm not trying to get to say 7 weeks from a finish perspective but under 8 weeks for most of my strains would be great and looks like I may have hit it already. The Panama's I'm running look at least a week or two ahead of where they should be which is encouraging, and fat-ass buds to boot. Yeah that dream beaver looks like it'll produce a lot of resin, starting to cover those huge leaves already


Very interesting 
I've found that the density and weight is determined much sooner.
I can tell from roughly we're my plants are right now which ones are going to really stack and pack on the weight.
From day 35-40 on I didn't see much more swell only receding and fading.
I've watched most of your runs in your thread and I'd say you have those strains worked down to all be sub 50 days which is awesome and probably could mean an entire extra run per year.
I'd expect those same strains to go 40-45days tops under 8/16 but the plants wouldn't have time most likely to really fill out.
Sort of proves my point about finding what cycle or schedule works best for your situation/strains.


----------



## GroErr (May 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Very interesting
> I've found that the density and weight is determined much sooner.
> I can tell from roughly we're my plants are right now which ones are going to really stack and pack on the weight.
> From day 35-40 on I didn't see much more swell only receding and fading.
> ...


Yeah a lot of it definitely varies by strain but I think as you reduce the cycle and the overall time to finish reduces, you'd be seeing them go through their stages (bulking, density) earlier as well. Out of the 5 clone strains I have running in there, 3 of them put most of their weight and density on in the last 7-10 days, one gets fairly dense around week 6 and just gets hard as a rock in the last week. Some strains may or may not be ideal for a really short flowering period induced by light schedule or other methods.

What I noticed this round is they're all finishing faster, the maturity showed most in the curling/browning up of the hairs, and the density/bulk developed closer to their 9 week development times when I was running 12.5/11.5 and 12/12. Most of them didn't start getting dense (bulk was there, just not solid as usual) until around day 45, but then in 5 days they went from what I'd consider fluffy to the density I was expecting them to have, that kind of threw me off a bit compared to past grows.

I have another factor which could be playing into the early maturing of the hairs which was really fast compared to any other factors. I'm running 660nm initiators and this cycle they're running for the first 2 hours of the cycle, starting at 10 minutes before lights-on. I also have 730nm at the end of the cycle running for just 10 minutes after lights out. Next round I'm going to kill those initiators and see if I can get a measurement of what role the initiators had in this early finish (if any) while still running at 11.5/12.5 for the main lights. It was a significant and noticeable change from 12/12 so I think both the reduced time of 11.5 on and the extended time of the 660 initiators played a part in the hairs maturing faster, but I think the reduced cycle time had a greater role in the overall quicker finish times. Would just like to understand how much each factored into the earlier finish and maturing differences. To me those initiators weren't doing anything to reduce the flowering time, when running at 12.5/11.5 and 12/12, but they may have had a greater effect on the maturation of the hairs being so early.

Yeah after seeing the effects/difference between even 12.5/11.5 and 11.5/12.5, I'd say most of my strains would potentially finish in the 45 day range running 8/16, but I think I'd take a significant enough hit that I'd switch back to something longer.

In my case, I'd be happy with the majority of my strains finishing in the 7-8 week range without taking a big hit on yields. So if 11/13 or 11.5/12.5 can do that for me I'm good. For me, any less than that 7-8 week finish and I'd have a hard time keeping up with veggers coming up, or flower smaller plants which wouldn't be as efficient. I have to keep reminding myself that this is a hobby and not making work of it - lol


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## torontoke (May 9, 2017)

I totally agree with the end of that post g
I think that's why some of the people who have popped into my journal have been disappointed or let down.
I'm not a cash cropper or clambering for every last gram.
For me it's total efficiency 
Generating as much high quality yield to least amount of work/energy/cost
I know that I can easily fill my own personal needs so now it's just shits n giggles while tinkering with things to see what each change does.
All the while getting better and better each crop I'm learning that when I do a serious scale up the transition should be a lot smoother with less ifs in the equation


----------



## GroErr (May 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I totally agree with the end of that post g
> I think that's why some of the people who have popped into my journal have been disappointed or let down.
> I'm not a cash cropper or clambering for every last gram.
> For me it's total efficiency
> ...


Yeah it's a different focus for sure when you're doing it for personal meds/hobby vs. cash cropping. Commercial focus = $ focus and that shit can eventually take the fun out of anything, no thanks.


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## torontoke (May 11, 2017)




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## torontoke (May 12, 2017)




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## ttystikk (May 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3941085 View attachment 3941082 View attachment 3941083


Is that a lil bit of tip burn going on?


----------



## torontoke (May 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Is that a lil bit of tip burn going on?


Yeah
The tips are a bit burnt
Not seeing all the early yellow like last time so it's not from the light.
None of the usual expected deficiencies showin yet


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Yeah
> The tips are a bit burnt
> Not seeing all the early yellow like last time so it's not from the light.
> None of the usual expected deficiencies showin yet


Tip burn is usually a sign of excess nutrient. A little bit isn't bad and is understandable if you've been battling deficiencies.

What's your RH?


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## torontoke (May 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Tip burn is usually a sign of excess nutrient. A little bit isn't bad and is understandable if you've been battling deficiencies.
> 
> What's your RH?


I'm using the same nutrients
Same amount
Changed calmag brands
Rh is 42-48%
Temps at canopy light on is 80degrees
Lights off 68degrees

New strains with a super mixed sat/indy ratio so some dialing in is definitely needed.


----------



## torontoke (May 12, 2017)

I received a private message tip from a friend/fellow member who's opinion I value a while back that I shouldn't post pics that show any yellowing or "problems" but I'm not like that.
Nowhere in this long journal do I ever claim to be more then an average grower and it shows.
It's Part of the reason I have a hard time taking compliments or positive feedback.
Even tho I've been at it a lil while now there's always hurdles and things to improve on.


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I received a private message tip from a friend/fellow member who's opinion I value a while back that I shouldn't post pics that show any yellowing or "problems" but I'm not like that.
> Nowhere in this long journal do I ever claim to be more then an average grower and it shows.
> It's Part of the reason I have a hard time taking compliments or positive feedback.
> Even tho I've been at it a lil while now there's always hurdles and things to improve on.


Your grows look great, even more so with the occasional error, it shows your human. We all make mistakes, and we can learn from those of others.


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## torontoke (May 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Your grows look great, even more so with the occasional error, it shows your human. We all make mistakes, and we can learn from those of others.


Thanks bud 
I'm happy to learn and try my damnedest to never make the same mistake twice.


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## ttystikk (May 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks bud
> I'm happy to learn and try my damnedest to never make the same mistake twice.


I know, because there's so many new ones to make! Repetition would be boring!


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## torontoke (May 13, 2017)

Day 27
More cowbell   
Dream beaver
Space monkey
 
Grandpasbreath


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## torontoke (May 15, 2017)




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## torontoke (May 15, 2017)

Been really struggling with a conundrum.
I've been asked by 2 more people if I would be their designated grower.
Just so happens that my downstairs neighbours are moving at the end of the month. I could probably take that apartment over for very little. So do I do it or just wait til I am in my own house.
The plant count and work load would be barely manageable but the trade off would be the good vibes helping more people and even larger seed popping pheno hunts.
Dilemmas


----------



## GroErr (May 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Been really struggling with a conundrum.
> I've been asked by 2 more people if I would be their designated grower.
> Just so happens that my downstairs neighbours are moving at the end of the month. I could probably take that apartment over for very little. So do I do it or just wait til I am in my own house.
> The plant count and work load would be barely manageable but the trade off would be the good vibes helping more people and even larger seed popping pheno hunts.
> Dilemmas


Looking good in there as usual  I've struggled with it myself but decided I can't pay enough attention to that until I retire or at least semi-retire. It would be a nice gig knowing that you're helping people out and as long as costs are covered, something productive to do in retirement. But atm I have a hard enough time finding time for my personal meds and helping someone out in need from time to time


----------



## torontoke (May 15, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Looking good in there as usual  I've struggled with it myself but decided I can't pay enough attention to that until I retire or at least semi-retire. It would be a nice gig knowing that you're helping people out and as long as costs are covered, something productive to do in retirement. But atm I have a hard enough time finding time for my personal meds and helping someone out in need from time to time


Thanks bud
Technically I'm retired sir
On disability pension
Not allowed to work
Really wouldn't be about the money at all to me. I'd just get way more plants and room to do what I love to do.
Problem is I have so much to do up north because that's where I really wanna be.


----------



## GroErr (May 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Technically I'm retired sir
> On disability pension
> Not allowed to work
> Really wouldn't be about the money at all to me. I'd just get way more plants and room to do what I love to do.
> Problem is I have so much to do up north because that's where I really wanna be.


Yeah so you're in a situation you could handle it but building up there will take a lot of effort/time. The additional space would be sweet and like you say you'll get some benefits even if you're just breaking even. Tough call for sure. I've always said I won't get back into commercial but medical/DG would be rewarding knowing you're helping out patients who would otherwise be scrambling to get their meds.


----------



## torontoke (May 15, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Yeah so you're in a situation you could handle it but building up there will take a lot of effort/time. The additional space would be sweet and like you say you'll get some benefits even if you're just breaking even. Tough call for sure. I've always said I won't get back into commercial but medical/DG would be rewarding knowing you're helping out patients who would otherwise be scrambling to get their meds.


I see the shit the one girl smokes
I've given away 1/2 of almost every gram I've ever grown.
Every time I see her I'm like here please don't smoke that.
Know a guy that's about to start building a compassion club too so if the craft grower thing ever gets to happen who knows.
Tough decision tho


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks
> I've read the thread


Lol.


----------



## GroErr (May 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I see the shit the one girl smokes
> I've given away 1/2 of almost every gram I've ever grown.
> Every time I see her I'm like here please don't smoke that.
> Know a guy that's about to start building a compassion club too so if the craft grower thing ever gets to happen who knows.
> Tough decision tho


Yeah, keeping an eye on how this whole rec/med legalization plays out but not holding my breath in Ontario, we've had the worst of the worst provincial politicians for years, not seeing any change on the horizon, other than getting rid of Wynne once and for all. The shit I've seen people smoke just baffles me, some are still paying top dollar for shwagg that I wouldn't put in my composter ffs.


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I received a private message tip from a friend/fellow member who's opinion I value a while back that I shouldn't post pics that show any yellowing or "problems" but I'm not like that.
> Nowhere in this long journal do I ever claim to be more then an average grower and it shows.
> It's Part of the reason I have a hard time taking compliments or positive feedback.
> Even tho I've been at it a lil while now there's always hurdles and things to improve on.


I hear that. I mean a person can hide their bad plant or mistakes. I show mine. 

I've screwed a few of them up. Lol.


----------



## torontoke (May 15, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> I hear that. I mean a person can hide their bad plant or mistakes. I show mine.
> 
> I've screwed a few of them up. Lol.


I show it all good bad and ugly.
Wanted to show the whole process and find it suspect when some guys post seedling/young plant pics then boom next post it's basically trimmed and perfect like it has a make up artist.
My girls have higher self esteem lol


----------



## whitebb2727 (May 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I show it all good bad and ugly.
> Wanted to show the whole process and find it suspect when some guys post seedling/young plant pics then boom next post it's basically trimmed and perfect like it has a make up artist.
> My girls have higher self esteem lol


Lol.

You should see my cab. A couple plants look rough. I tried flowering in 1 gallon grow bags. Its working but they need constant watering and I fell behind.


----------



## torontoke (May 15, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> Lol.
> 
> You should see my cab. A couple plants look rough. I tried flowering in 1 gallon grow bags. Its working but they need constant watering and I fell behind.


I've been having pretty good luck with the hempy pots.
I leave them alone for a weekend sometimes and they tend to stay moist.
The lil reservoir at the bottom helps.
1 gals are small tho
I've been using square 2.5's and those rectangular cat litter pails roughly 3gals


----------



## torontoke (May 15, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Yeah, keeping an eye on how this whole rec/med legalization plays out but not holding my breath in Ontario, we've had the worst of the worst provincial politicians for years, not seeing any change on the horizon, other than getting rid of Wynne once and for all. The shit I've seen people smoke just baffles me, some are still paying top dollar for shwagg that I wouldn't put in my composter ffs.


Girl I know pays $5 a gram for bottom of the bag buds.
They are those wispy shits that grow along the base. I usually go tree or bush and slip them into the trim pile. Apparently some don't.
I think the government is gonna have no choice but to allow a lot more people into the party. There simple isn't enough supply out there. All the lps claim they are still gonna provide to their patients but once rec starts and they need to fill shelves nation wide where's it supposed to come from.
Patients will be left unhigh and dry.


----------



## GroErr (May 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Girl I know pays $5 a gram for bottom of the bag buds.
> They are those wispy shits that grow along the base. I usually go tree or bush and slip them into the trim pile. Apparently some don't.
> I think the government is gonna have no choice but to allow a lot more people into the party. There simple isn't enough supply out there. All the lps claim they are still gonna provide to their patients but once rec starts and they need to fill shelves nation wide where's it supposed to come from.
> Patients will be left unhigh and dry.


Wow $5 for what we'd consider trim/popcorn for the hash bin. That's how I trim mine up, anything that doesn't count as a proper bud gets stripped into the trim bin. It's alright for meds like kief/caps and the like but $5/g is about the most I'd charge for prime bud for a rec smoker #$%! Yeah agreed, we need a better source/system for med patients. LP's are here to please investors, their focus will be moving product out the door and volume (rec), not consideration for med clients, and certainly no compassion. This has already been confirmed by their actions to-date, their inability to grow meds without pesticides, control mold (irradiation), and pricing which most med patients can't afford. I'm sure I left out some examples of their actions clearly showing they have no consideration for the med market. Only chance med patients have is coverage through insurance. But if you look at the pioneers (self-serving mind you in this case) like Loblaws/Shoppers providing some coverage, their plan covers up to $1,500/year. At LP prices and quality of shwagg, that's what, a couple of months supply for smoking? If you're making proper meds like edibles/concentrates even less. Then what... back to the BM?


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Been really struggling with a conundrum.
> I've been asked by 2 more people if I would be their designated grower.
> Just so happens that my downstairs neighbours are moving at the end of the month. I could probably take that apartment over for very little. So do I do it or just wait til I am in my own house.
> The plant count and work load would be barely manageable but the trade off would be the good vibes helping more people and even larger seed popping pheno hunts.
> Dilemmas


Think about how things would work on your planning timeline. That's my best tool to determine whether a given opportunity is right for me.


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## torontoke (May 16, 2017)

Day30
Cept for the plant in front on the right and back on the left those are easily a week behind.


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## Alexroller (May 16, 2017)

how many watts you got there and how long did you veg.?? those are some pretty badass 30 day buds...
My timer broke down and it ruined my time schedules for 2 days...i hope it doesnt turn like hermie...


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## torontoke (May 16, 2017)

Alexroller said:


> how many watts you got there and how long did you veg.?? those are some pretty badass 30 day buds...
> My timer broke down and it ruined my time schedules for 2 days...i hope it doesnt turn like hermie...


I'm running a 255watt driver dimmed down to approx 175watts
8 plants in 2-3gal 
Vegged for roughly a month 
Few tops


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## Alexroller (May 17, 2017)

What strain...
? I have 2 blue dreams humboldt and ive vegged them for at least 1.5 month...Now they are 1 week in flowering...and i can barely see some pistils...and i have 600 hps for flowering..
My timer also broke down and ruined my time schedules for 2 days...
I do it manually..but im afraid that timer may have caused some stress...


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## Alexroller (May 17, 2017)

Your buds also look perfect for just 175 watts
DAMN...


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## torontoke (May 17, 2017)

Thanks
I'm happy with the results 
Right now I'm running almost all bodhi
2elfinstone
2dream beaver
2 space monkey
1more cowbell
1 grandpasbreath


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## torontoke (May 17, 2017)

Starting to look more mature then day31


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## Alexroller (May 18, 2017)

at this stage of flowering does every strain of yours has a strong smell??? or do they get stinky later???


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## torontoke (May 18, 2017)

Alexroller said:


> at this stage of flowering does every strain of yours has a strong smell??? or do they get stinky later???


Most of these started to stink during veg.
By the second week of flower they are dank and obvious


----------



## torontoke (May 18, 2017)

Elfinstone starting to plump up a lil

Group shot day 32 and 25
Space monkey


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## Alexroller (May 18, 2017)

what heck am i doing wrong and mine doesnt smell dank???? 
Please advise me... please help me...
I must do something wrong


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## torontoke (May 19, 2017)

Alexroller said:


> what heck am i doing wrong and mine doesnt smell dank????
> Please advise me... please help me...
> I must do something wrong


Not necessarily 
Some strains don't have a strong smell.
First thing you need to do is get a new timer or two and get them back on a working cycle.


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## zoic (May 19, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Not necessarily
> Some strains don't have a strong smell.
> First thing you need to do is get a new timer or two and get them back on a working cycle.


I concur. I was worried the smell would be an issue but most times it is negligible. I stuck my head inside the closet this morning to get a whiff and it was underwhelming IMO for plant at about day 50 in flower. I have noticed it smells more when the lights are on as opposed to off.


----------



## zoic (May 19, 2017)

torontoke said:


> and those rectangular cat litter pails roughly 3gals


Brilliant, I have 5 of those in the basement and a few a the round pickle pails. I have been subbed for quite a while to this thread but for some reason I have not been getting alerts lately. I guess I will have to do some back reading.


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## ttystikk (May 19, 2017)

zoic said:


> I concur. I was worried the smell would be an issue but most times it is negligible. I stuck my head inside the closet this morning to get a whiff and it was underwhelming IMO for plant at about day 50 in flower. I have noticed it smells more when the lights are on as opposed to off.


Lights, especially hot ones, tend to evaporate terpenes. Fans shake the plants and make them rub terpenes.


----------



## ttystikk (May 19, 2017)

zoic said:


> Brilliant, I have 5 of those in the basement and a few a the round pickle pails. I have been subbed for quite a while to this thread but for some reason I have not been getting alerts lately. I guess I will have to do some back reading.


Check your 'watched threads' regularly.


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## zoic (May 19, 2017)

Thanks, this is not the only one. Also I noticed that it show I have 3 alert, but when I open it there are 7 or 8 that I have not seen yet for sure. That is OK though, you guys are not that difficult to find.


----------



## ttystikk (May 19, 2017)

zoic said:


> Thanks, this is not the only one. Also I noticed that it show I have 3 alert, but when I open it there are 7 or 8 that I have not seen yet for sure. That is OK though, you guys are not that difficult to find.


No, you'll find I'm difficult.


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## whytewidow (May 19, 2017)

That space monkey looks dank....


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## torontoke (May 19, 2017)

whytewidow said:


> That space monkey looks dank....


Smells dank too
I'm anxious to try them all.
The more cowbell has the most unique nose of them all.
Dream beaver is the loudest.
When I took it out to clean it up and flush it my whole house instantly reeked.


zoic said:


> Thanks, this is not the only one. Also I noticed that it show I have 3 alert, but when I open it there are 7 or 8 that I have not seen yet for sure. That is OK though, you guys are not that difficult to find.


hmmmm not sure if that a good thing or not lol


----------



## Alexroller (May 20, 2017)

so temperetures above 33-34 celcius kinda "evaporate" aromas and stuff???


----------



## zoic (May 20, 2017)

Alexroller said:


> so temperetures above 33-34 celcius kinda "evaporate" aromas and stuff???


That seems to be pushing the upper limit IMO. I was a bit freaked when we had a 2 day heat blast and the temps in my closet jumped from 24.x to 29.7. Fortunately I turned the heater off and installed the AC in the bedroom, so the next morning it was back down to 24.4 in the closet.


----------



## Alexroller (May 21, 2017)

my closet get as high as 36-37 celcius sometimes


----------



## torontoke (May 22, 2017)

Alexroller said:


> my closet get as high as 36-37 celcius sometimes


That's a lil bit high
Try to improve your exhaust and or get a cooler running light in there.


----------



## torontoke (May 22, 2017)

Day 36 and 29

Grandpasbreath 

More cowbell

Space monkey 
I'll snap some more pics of the others later since I'm gonna have to feed these starving ladies and try to get rid of some of the super early yellowing


----------



## zoic (May 22, 2017)

That Space Monkey looks delicious. I am going to try to track back it genetics, just for kicks, OK cuz I am bored LOL.


----------



## torontoke (May 22, 2017)

zoic said:


> That Space Monkey looks delicious. I am going to try to track back it genetics, just for kicks, OK cuz I am bored LOL.


Space monkey is gg4 x Wookiee #15 by bodhi seeds.
$70 for 11 seeds here
https://www.greatlakesgenetics.com/listing/space-monkey/1180


----------



## torontoke (May 22, 2017)

Elfinstone 
Dream beaver


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## zoic (May 22, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Space monkey is gg4 x Wookiee #15 by bodhi seeds.
> $70 for 11 seeds here
> https://www.greatlakesgenetics.com/listing/space-monkey/1180


Yes, but I take it ridiculously farther.
So Wookie by Bodhi seeds is a hybrid cross of Big Buddy’s Lavender x Appalachia
OK GG4 is a hybrid cross of Chocolate Diesel x Sour Diesel

If I keep going it can become a long list of hybrid after hybrid. I noticed that once you get a few rounds in you almost always see Skunk in the picture. Jack Herer also seems to pop in around 3 or 4 strains deep. I expect that if I keep going I will eventually hit a good land race strain.


----------



## Alexroller (May 23, 2017)

those smallish burns are because of nutrients/??
Some leaves have them too at mine..


----------



## torontoke (May 24, 2017)

Alexroller said:


> those smallish burns are because of nutrients/??
> Some leaves have them too at mine..


Yes it's usually from too much of some ingredient in the nutes.
Or it's not enough of something else.
Pretty easy to diagnose if it really bothered me.

Day 38 and 31


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## torontoke (May 25, 2017)

Grandpasbreath has filled out and looks like it will be first chopped.
 
More cowbell is not far behind

Elfinstone smells incredible 
 
Not a bad looking haul this run


----------



## torontoke (May 26, 2017)

Space monkey day 40
 
Dream beaver
 
More cowbell


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## Alexroller (May 27, 2017)

They do seem outrangeous for just 300watts man...
i wanna know something...i told you i have some problems with temps because it gets hotter and hotter here in greece ...Whats the sign that my plants are starting to get heat stressed???


----------



## 420producer (May 27, 2017)

Alexroller said:


> They do seem outrangeous for just 300watts man...
> i wanna know something...i told you i have some problems with temps because it gets hotter and hotter here in greece ...Whats the sign that my plants are starting to get heat stressed???


drinks a lot will curl upward


----------



## torontoke (May 27, 2017)

Alexroller said:


> They do seem outrangeous for just 300watts man...
> i wanna know something...i told you i have some problems with temps because it gets hotter and hotter here in greece ...Whats the sign that my plants are starting to get heat stressed???


Could be canoeing like 420producer showed.
Could be slow stunted growth 
Could be super dry soil 
Could show none of these as well
It's really about dialing in your environment and finding what works best for you.
I was having a real hard time keeping things cool with the 400mh in such a small space that's what prompted me to go led.
Now I'm running under 200watts and the plants seem much more happy and in turn that makes me happy.


----------



## zoic (May 27, 2017)

Hey tt, is that 200W (True Watt) or 200W equivalency? I just bought a Mar 300W (equivalency) and IIRC it is 132W (True Watt) LED. 
Just curious. My current grow is only 38W LED so I figure I have tripled the juice for my grow. Do this make sense?


----------



## torontoke (May 27, 2017)

zoic said:


> Hey tt, is that 200W (True Watt) or 200W equivalency? I just bought a Mar 300W (equivalency) and IIRC it is 132W (True Watt) LED.
> Just curious. My current grow is only 38W LED so I figure I have tripled the juice for my grow. Do this make sense?


Technically I'm running a meanwell 240 which is actuall 255watts draw from the plug however I have it dimmed down to about 70% or roughly 178watts.

That mars light isn't what I would have recommended you buy however I'm sure it can and will produce some bud for you.
As money allows you can always upgrade it with more efficient leds and drivers.


----------



## zoic (May 27, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback. It was a value judgement really. The 38W is currently have is $90 and the Mars is $150. The Mars will give me a 2nd flower area and should deliver a much better crop that the crappy T12 $20 fluorescent light.

The problem is no longer money but instead it is location. My wife and I want to move out of the crappy townhouse into a nice apartment, yeah no more stairs. I am remiss to spend a lot before I find out where I am going to land. I would really like one of those fan-less lights, but the weight with those giant ass heat sinks may be more than I can handle. Time will tell.


----------



## torontoke (May 27, 2017)

zoic said:


> Thanks for the feedback. It was a value judgement really. The 38W is currently have is $90 and the Mars is $150. The Mars will give me a 2nd flower area and should deliver a much better crop that the crappy T12 $20 fluorescent light.
> 
> The problem is no longer money but instead it is location. My wife and I want to move out of the crappy townhouse into a nice apartment, yeah no more stairs. I am remiss to spend a lot before I find out where I am going to land. I would really like one of those fan-less lights, but the weight with those giant ass heat sinks may be more than I can handle. Time will tell.


My light has two heat sinks and weighs less then 10 lbs
Any questions you have along the way I will gladly answer if I can. There are many knowledgable growers on this site that I'm sure can help get u going no matter where u land.


----------



## zoic (May 27, 2017)

Well I can work with 10 pounds but not over my head height easily. I tried to find it with Google and it kept giving me just the driver and datasheet. Do you have a link handy for that light, I am not necessarily done shopping yet.


----------



## torontoke (May 27, 2017)

Horticulturelightinggroup.com
I'm running basically the 265watt kit or whatever they call it.
They also have citizen cobs pretty cheap on their other site.
Northerngrowlights.com


----------



## zoic (May 27, 2017)

OK, thanks. Still checking out the site. I found one that has passive cooling so I had to go read up on that. Sounds very cool (pardon the pun). Is yours using passive cooling?


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## torontoke (May 27, 2017)

zoic said:


> OK, thanks. Still checking out the site. I found one that has passive cooling so I had to go read up on that. Sounds very cool (pardon the pun). Is yours using passive cooling?


Yeah
Mine have no fans or anything.
And even with the driver mounted on my light frame the box doesn't go above 85

I bought a cheap $9 Walmart clip on fan and attached it to the light blowing down across the plants and everything has been pretty smooth since.

Active or fan cooling can be just as good but another part that can break or become noisy.


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## torontoke (May 27, 2017)




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## torontoke (May 27, 2017)




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## zoic (May 27, 2017)

Nice. Those 2 colas in the right rear look very big.


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## torontoke (May 27, 2017)

zoic said:


> Nice. Those 2 colas in the right rear look very big.


Those are the grandpasbreath mains are 10-12" long and 4-5" wide.
One of the db on the middle left is even fatter and just oozing 
Even the spiralling elfinstone is packing on some decent size. I imagine by the time she's done that will be one monster bud


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## torontoke (May 28, 2017)

Day 42 and space monkey could easily be chopped today. At about 20% amber now 

More cowbell is also close about 10% amber but does she ever smell enticing.

Gonna leave them a couple more days and hope for more couch locky goodness to show through in the cure. By then a few others should be ready as well.

So far every strain I've tried from bodhi seeds I liked more then the last one.
Tough to pick which one I'm most looking forward too.
Good times all
Happy Sunday


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## torontoke (May 28, 2017)




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## torontoke (May 28, 2017)




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## ttystikk (May 28, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3950726 View attachment 3950727 View attachment 3950728 View attachment 3950729


Yeah... 

Terribly, terribly spindly and light starved. No yield there at all.


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## torontoke (May 28, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Yeah...
> 
> Terribly, terribly spindly and light starved. No yield there at all.


Yup
U know it
No thc no yield
Just saving energy for nothing.


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## torontoke (May 29, 2017)

So I've decided next run will include an intentional pollination.
In my veg tent I've got
More cowbell
Spacemonkey
Dream beaver 
Landos stash
Tiger mountain
Grandmaster Tahoe
Roadkill unicorn 

Last night I wet 5 rku x rks and 5 False teeth from dvg

Today I'm germing 6 lucky charms

Best male of rku and or lc pollen will be stored and select females will be hit.
Should be lots of killer crosses and name combos


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## farmerfischer (May 29, 2017)

Looking good tt!


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## torontoke (May 29, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> Looking good tt!


Thank you sir


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## torontoke (May 30, 2017)




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## GroErr (May 30, 2017)

Looking good, some nice colas/weight coming up. Not bad for 8 hours of light and using dem fancy leed lights


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## torontoke (May 30, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Looking good, some nice colas/weight coming up. Not bad for 8 hours of light and using dem fancy leed lights


Thanks g
Most importantly to me at least it will be enough to last me the next 50 or so days.
I'm excited to try em all


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## GroErr (May 30, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks g
> Most importantly to me at least it will be enough to last me the next 50 or so days.
> I'm excited to try em all


Lol, looks like enough there to build a house


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## torontoke (May 30, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, looks like enough there to build a house


Lol hmmm perhaps
Or at least draw a house 
Maybe I just said I smoke to much out loud


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## ttystikk (May 30, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol hmmm perhaps
> Or at least draw a house
> Maybe I just said I smoke to much out loud


Is there such a thing?


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## torontoke (May 30, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Is there such a thing?


I wouldn't know
So probably the worst person to ask lol
I still roll 2 gram daggers to my face and it never seems enough. Sometimes I claim I can't feel a buzz then I realize I'm saying it while being ripped all day from morning til I pass out.
I'd say I think I have a problem but that's only when I dont have any


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## ttystikk (May 30, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I wouldn't know
> So probably the worst person to ask lol
> I still roll 2 gram daggers to my face and it never seems enough. Sometimes I claim I can't feel a buzz then I realize I'm saying it while being ripped all day from morning til I pass out.
> I'd say I think I have a problem but that's only when I dont have any


How would you feel if you didn't have any?


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## torontoke (May 30, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> How would you feel if you didn't have any?


Another question I could never answer lol
I get down to my last zip and I'm in panic mode. 
Good karma has found a way of making sure I always have what I need and usually I'm the one with extra.
I can't honestly remember not having anything


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## Sassafras¥ (May 30, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Another question I could never answer lol
> I get down to my last zip and I'm in panic mode.
> Good karma has found a way of making sure I always have what I need and usually I'm the one with extra.
> I can't honestly remember not having anything


Hey bud... good read. Well, lol I'm a stoner see, and tbh I kinda skipped most of the 70s some odd pages. Sorry.  anywho did the 8 hours of light work for you? Do you think it's a total loss, if there is a difference how much weight would you say you lost by decreasing the light cycle? Rough guess.


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## torontoke (May 30, 2017)

Sassafras¥ said:


> Hey bud... good read. Well, lol I'm a stoner see, and tbh I kinda skipped most of the 70s some odd pages. Sorry.  anywho did the 8 hours of light work for you? Do you think it's a total loss, if there is a difference how much weight would you say you lost by decreasing the light cycle? Rough guess.


No worries
I know what it's like walking into such a long thread sometimes.
The pics posted the last few pages are plants all still being grown with only 8hrs of light.
I'm using 180watts in a 6 sq foot cabinet and I'm hoping to pull a solid lb after 50days
Not sure if I'm losing out on any yield tbh


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## Sassafras¥ (May 30, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No worries
> I know what it's like walking into such a long thread sometimes.
> The pics posted the last few pages are plants all still being grown with only 8hrs of light.
> I'm using 180watts in a 6 sq foot cabinet and I'm hoping to pull a solid lb after 50days
> Not sure if I'm losing out on any yield tbh


I see. Reason I asked is some where I recalled reading that you had some of the same growing at a buddies house? Could be wrong. Just thought you'd be able to tell the difference between the two separate grows on weight. Not bad for a 8 hr light cycle though!! Not at all. Not to mention just 180 watt's to boot.!! Hell yeah


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## torontoke (May 30, 2017)

Sassafras¥ said:


> I see. Reason I asked is some where I recalled reading that you had some of the same growing at a buddies house? Could be wrong. Just thought you'd be able to tell the difference between the two separate grows on weight. Not bad for a 8 hr light cycle though!! Not at all. Not to mention just 180 watt's to boot.!! Hell yeah


Yeah in the beginning before I switched to led I had a few rooms going in comparison.
6hrs wasn't enough the yield loss was over 20-30%
8hrs was giving me 80-90% of 12/12 but that was when I never looked back.
Been getting decent results with 8 and I have converted a few friends and family.
If I'm losing anything at all now it couldn't be much.
I could be considered biased tho


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## Sassafras¥ (May 31, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Yeah in the beginning before I switched to led I had a few rooms going in comparison.
> 6hrs wasn't enough the yield loss was over 20-30%
> 8hrs was giving me 80-90% of 12/12 but that was when I never looked back.
> Been getting decent results with 8 and I have converted a few friends and family.
> ...


Well hell yeah.. I like the outcome. I do believe I'm goin try it with my gals on my next go round. I have a shit load of strains in baby stages right now myself. Nightcap x Stardawg x Lemon Alien Dawg. Purple Voodoo x Stardawg x Lemon Alien Dawg. Purple Voodoo. Dr. Grinspoon. Sour Livers. White Master Kush. Velvet Pie. And a few more. Got to get my grow space cleaned up and figure out something about what I plan to do this round. I plan on a few organic and a few in dwc buckets. Maybe split the room.


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## torontoke (May 31, 2017)

Sassafras¥ said:


> Well hell yeah.. I like the outcome. I do believe I'm goin try it with my gals on my next go round. I have a shit load of strains in baby stages right now myself. Nightcap x Stardawg x Lemon Alien Dawg. Purple Voodoo x Stardawg x Lemon Alien Dawg. Purple Voodoo. Dr. Grinspoon. Sour Livers. White Master Kush. Velvet Pie. And a few more. Got to get my grow space cleaned up and figure out something about what I plan to do this round. I plan on a few organic and a few in dwc buckets. Maybe split the room.


Sound like you've got a lot of fire to run and I usually recommend everyone start with reducing cycles in smaller steps.
I've kind of taken it to the extreme of bare necessities and think that giving more light then the plants can use is the first step.
Once at the point of over saturation you can slowly dial it back to find the amount of lights on hours that suit your needs perfectly.
Might be 11.5, 11,10.5,10,9.5,9,8.5, or even 8


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## Sassafras¥ (May 31, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Sound like you've got a lot of fire to run and I usually recommend everyone start with reducing cycles in smaller steps.
> I've kind of taken it to the extreme of bare necessities and think that giving more light then the plants can use is the first step.
> Once at the point of over saturation you can slowly dial it back to find the amount of lights on hours that suit your needs perfectly.
> Might be 11.5, 11,10.5,10,9.5,9,8.5, or even 8


Yeah, planning on trying to cross a few of the ones I mentioned. Then working with those. Sounds like a plan.


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## torontoke (May 31, 2017)

Sassafras¥ said:


> Yeah, planning on trying to cross a few of the ones I mentioned. Then working with those. Sounds like a plan.


Planning a couple crosses myself and some f2's then I'll decide on some keepers and work it back.
Most people are nervous to switch to anything other then 12/12 but even 11/13 or 10/14 is savings and I'd say the difference in yield wouldn't even be noticeable.
Good luck on your project either way


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## Sassafras¥ (May 31, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Planning a couple crosses myself and some f2's then I'll decide on some keepers and work it back.
> Most people are nervous to switch to anything other then 12/12 but even 11/13 or 10/14 is savings and I'd say the difference in yield wouldn't even be noticeable.
> Good luck on your project either way


I hear that.. thanks, you to. I'm hoping to locate some Star Destroyer and or something that has the "Cube" in it.


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## torontoke (Jun 1, 2017)

Day 46


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## ttystikk (Jun 1, 2017)

Amazing!


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## torontoke (Jun 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Amazing!


Thanks brother
I'm thrilled with this group
Great genetics makes tons of difference


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## j.t.1986 (Jun 1, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No worries
> I know what it's like walking into such a long thread sometimes.
> The pics posted the last few pages are plants all still being grown with only 8hrs of light.
> I'm using 180watts in a 6 sq foot cabinet and I'm hoping to pull a solid lb after 50days
> Not sure if I'm losing out on any yield tbh


damn that would be a great yield for those dimensions, and on reduced light to boot! was thinking of a 2x3 or a 2x4 cab as my next upgrade. but if youre doing that well with those watts i might go with 2x3, as i have a 4 cob set up capable of about 200w so i wont need additional lighting.

awesome thread btw and its nice to be somehwere that makes me feel i dont smoke excessively lol.


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## torontoke (Jun 1, 2017)

j.t.1986 said:


> damn that would be a great yield for those dimensions, and on reduced light to boot! was thinking of a 2x3 or a 2x4 cab as my next upgrade. but if youre doing that well with those watts i might go with 2x3, as i have a 4 cob set up capable of about 200w so i wont need additional lighting.
> 
> awesome thread btw and its nice to be somehwere that makes me feel i dont smoke excessively lol.


Thanks a lot for the kind words.
No smoke n mirrors are being used.
The cab in the photos is 35" wide 23" deep and 56" tall. There's 2 pcb led boards in it on a meanwell 240 at 70%.
Last run was 6 plants and this time I ran 8
In 2.5-3gal Pails.
I'll post up the yields at the end as usual.
Again thanks for stopping by.


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## pinner420 (Jun 1, 2017)

The light master strikes again....


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## torontoke (Jun 1, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> The light master strikes again....


I don't know anything about all that


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## torontoke (Jun 2, 2017)

Chopped more cowbell and one elfinstone last night.
More cowbell isn't gonna be much weight but it's nice smoke.
The space monkey is amazing but again not a huge yielder. I only took a small sample nug but it's a nice trippy high.
The rest will be chopped over the weekend and I'll post weights once dry next week.

Going to clean up the cabinet and make a few minor tweaks and then she'll be refilled with the next round for a seed run.


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## torontoke (Jun 2, 2017)

Grandpasbreath pre chop

 
Dream beaver


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## zoic (Jun 2, 2017)

It is a beautiful thing.


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## torontoke (Jun 2, 2017)

zoic said:


> It is a beautiful thing.


Maybe my favourite thing ever
I'll gladly take this feeling 24/7 trimming and all.


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## torontoke (Jun 4, 2017)

On to the next episode.
Had to go to the hydroponics store yesterday and get more p and v
Pretty surprised when the guy says that'll be 93.47 lol
Won't need to buy anymore for the next few years.
40 and 50 lb bags is all they sell like wtf who shops there only Remo and Jorge Cervantes.

Managed to finish transplanting the entire next run


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## torontoke (Jun 5, 2017)

Elfinstone still kicking

Got 2 elfinstone 1 dream beaver still going.
Leaving for a few days so they will get chopped when I get home.
Moved 2 gmt 2rku 1landos stash into flower.


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## torontoke (Jun 6, 2017)

Space monkey
More cowbell 

Tiger mountain 
 
Some outdoor karma seeming to be on the upswing.
Got a dozen of these going this year.
I'd post them in the bodhi thread but my patience has peaked.
I'll Keep my amateur ass in my own journal til my last indoor crop is dry.


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## ttystikk (Jun 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Space monkeyView attachment 3956172
> More cowbell
> View attachment 3956173
> Tiger mountain
> ...


Lots of pro level goodness going on here:

Green healthy plants.

Good stealth techniques, like how you spread your plants out and don't manhandle the surroundings.

This ain't no noob thread.


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## torontoke (Jun 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Lots of pro level goodness going on here:
> 
> Green healthy plants.
> 
> ...


Thanks tty
You've always been extra nice to me and I honestly appreciate it.
Unfortunately I feel as tho most of my best intentions don't come across the way I hoped.
I've learned a lot since I started this thread and as we all know there's no deleting threads so this will be here forever to show people reduced hours can grow weed but I'm done defending the method.
Everyone is free to believe what they like.
I will never mention light hours or what day anything is ever again.
Most likely I'll just start a new journal with less detail and just the occasional photo bombs.


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## zoic (Jun 6, 2017)

Beautiful gorilla grow tt, and with space monkey, kind of punny. I think it is very cool how they just seem to blend in with the shrubbery so well. I wish I had the energy to pull that off, I can think of so many good places nearby. Hope you get an awesome yield.


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## ttystikk (Jun 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks tty
> You've always been extra nice to me and I honestly appreciate it.
> Unfortunately I feel as tho most of my best intentions don't come across the way I hoped.
> I've learned a lot since I started this thread and as we all know there's no deleting threads so this will be here forever to show people reduced hours can grow weed but I'm done defending the method.
> ...


Don't let the whiners get to you, man.

You know you're doing important work when you catch a bunch of shit from people with no imagination. I know, it happens to me all the time.


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## zoic (Jun 6, 2017)

> I'll Keep my amateur ass in my own journal til my last indoor crop is dry.


Just remember when the pundits are going blah,blah,blah there is always someone out there smarter than them, and then there is someone smarter than that person and so on. Focus on the people who give a shit and appreciate learning from your experiences.


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## torontoke (Jun 6, 2017)

zoic said:


> Beautiful gorilla grow tt, and with space monkey, kind of punny. I think it is very cool how they just seem to blend in with the shrubbery so well. I wish I had the energy to pull that off, I can think of so many good places nearby. Hope you get an awesome yield.


Thanks 
Took me half hour to find them and I put them there lol
Hopefully I actually get to harvest them myself this year.
Last years crop was chopped early by some low life weeks early.
If these get nabbed I will quit trying every summer. My ratio of harvested outdoor has steadily declined year after year.



ttystikk said:


> Don't let the whiners get to you, man.
> 
> You know you're doing important work when you catch a bunch of shit from people with no imagination. I know, it happens to me all the time.


I don't think what I'm doing is important or deserving of praise. I just get frustrated easily and my turn the other cheek attitude is almost gone.


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## torontoke (Jun 6, 2017)

zoic said:


> Just remember when the pundits are going blah,blah,blah there is always someone out there smarter than them, and then there is someone smarter than that person and so on. Focus on the people who give a shit and appreciate learning from your experiences.


I realized a long long time ago that most are smarter then me and didn't need to live those mistakes I did first hand.
But life goes on as they say and there's a new day coming tomorrow with plenty of opportunity to make even more mistakes.


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## ttystikk (Jun 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks
> Took me half hour to find them and I put them there lol
> Hopefully I actually get to harvest them myself this year.
> Last years crop was chopped early by some low life weeks early.
> ...


Okay, but I think you're doing important work.


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## ttystikk (Jun 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I realized a long long time ago that most are smarter then me and didn't need to live those mistakes I did first hand.
> But life goes on as they say and there's a new day coming tomorrow with plenty of opportunity to make even more mistakes.


And learn from them.


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## torontoke (Jun 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Okay, but I think you're doing important work.


I think the works been done.
I've filled countless pages with pics that seemed to quadruple bud size using 33% less energy while chopping weeks off of recommended flower times.
Only to be called a newb or told I shouldn't bother growing since I'm chopping early.
To quote the great divine brown "ain't no body got time for dat"


ttystikk said:


> And learn from them.


The greatest teacher we have in life are our failures and the occasional ass whopping life hands us to keep u on your toes while learning.


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## pinner420 (Jun 6, 2017)

Diamond in the rough.... Lovn it.. frosty bud pic to follow after this frosty beer..


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## torontoke (Jun 9, 2017)

Landos stashDeadhead og x lbl 
 
Space monkey


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## zoic (Jun 10, 2017)

Jeez those are beautiful plants. I have wanted to start a guerilla grow but lack a suitable location and cannot walk far so that limits my options further. Yesterday I went golfing, one last try to see if I am able. That is when I realized the perfect place. Golf courses have lots of wooded areas within them and I can use an electric cart to drive around. If I am too tired to golf, the course still lets me ride on the golf cart as long as I pay my your seat. Maybe a little late this year for a good yield but it will give me a chance to find lots and lots of good spots.


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## ttystikk (Jun 10, 2017)

zoic said:


> Jeez those are beautiful plants. I have wanted to start a guerilla grow but lack a suitable location and cannot walk far so that limits my options further. Yesterday I went golfing, one last try to see if I am able. That is when I realized the perfect place. Golf courses have lots of wooded areas within them and I can use an electric cart to drive around. If I am too tired to golf, the course still lets me ride on the golf cart as long as I pay my your seat. Maybe a little late this year for a good yield but it will give me a chance to find lots and lots of good spots.


Make sure they're in spots where no one shanks their tee shots lol


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## zoic (Jun 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Make sure they're in spots where no one shanks their tee shots lol


Of course. I am thinking BEHIND the tee box, and I have already figured out a few places. I will basically be hiding it in plain sight, if anyone is looking. Most folks are totally focused on their game, so as long as it is not somewhere someone might loose a ball, I may be able to pull it off.


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## ttystikk (Jun 10, 2017)

zoic said:


> Of course. I am thinking BEHIND the tee box, and I have already figured out a few places. I will basically be hiding it in plain sight, if anyone is looking. Most folks are totally focused on their game, so as long as it is not somewhere someone might loose a ball, I may be able to pull it off.


Beware the groundskeeping staff, lol

Make sure they don't see you headed into the bush, or they'll start following you.


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## torontoke (Jun 10, 2017)

I'd avoid the golf course myself but I'm nervous with outdoor spots.
Often thought about loading 100clones in my truck and finding quiet hidden spots along the 401 and crossing my fingers that a few make it til harvest.
Google maps is great for scouting spots


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## zoic (Jun 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Beware the groundskeeping staff, lol
> 
> Make sure they don't see you headed into the bush, or they'll start following you.


LOL, no worry, that is where a lot of guys go to pee as well. I plan on going in deep enough to avoid that too. People are always going into the bush for a number of reasons, so really nothing suspicious looking there. If and when I get around to doing this I will take pics.


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## zoic (Jun 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'd avoid the golf course myself but I'm nervous with outdoor spots.
> Often thought about loading 100clones in my truck and finding quiet hidden spots along the 401 and crossing my fingers that a few make it til harvest.
> Google maps is great for scouting spots


That sounds interesting. If you spread it out enough you would think something would make it. The golf course is one option I can work with, I hope to be there often and as a bonus I get to drive around on a motorized cart.


----------



## zoic (Jun 10, 2017)

I was wondering how old those plants are and how many weeks indoor before you planted them.


----------



## torontoke (Jun 10, 2017)

zoic said:


> I was wondering how old those plants are and how many weeks indoor before you planted them.


Bout 5 weeks
I topped them at the second node around 3weeks and gave them time to grow back out before topping them again.
Now they are bushes and should be at least 7-8' before they start to flower.
Can't really tell from the angle of the pics but the smaller ones are about 3' and the taller ones are at least 4'


----------



## zoic (Jun 10, 2017)

Well 7-8" sounds like it should produce a healthy yield. I look forward to hearing how bountiful they are for you.


----------



## torontoke (Jun 10, 2017)

Thanks zoic 
I'll throw pics of em up as they go.

Came home to the rest of the cab being done.
 
Here's my lil buddy looking not so lil anymore


----------



## zoic (Jun 10, 2017)

Man that is one beautiful dog, thanks for posting that pic. I bet a lot of people freeze in their tracks when they encounter you and your dog, LOL. Oh right, nice job on the cab, good sized buds.


----------



## torontoke (Jun 10, 2017)

zoic said:


> Man that is one beautiful dog, thanks for posting that pic. I bet a lot of people freeze in their tracks when they encounter you and your dog, LOL. Oh right, nice job on the cab, good sized buds.


He's an attention whore
I can't even pump gas without someone walking over to my truck and wanting to meet him.
His blue eyes are a hit with ladies lol
He's only 95lbs but a cuddly friendly guy

Cabinet produced some nice nugs this run.
I've sampled all but one and definitely regret not keeping cuts of most.
On the other hand I have one roadkill unicorn male for sure so the next round is getting hit and seeds shall flow.


----------



## jpdnkstr (Jun 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Beware the groundskeeping staff, lol
> 
> Make sure they don't see you headed into the bush, or they'll start following you.


I wouldn't plant on a golf course, I thought it would be a good idea too, until I started working on one... The staff should know the place like the back of their hands, so to speak. Chances are that they'll find it, probably cruising through the woods taking a canna-break themselves!


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## torontoke (Jun 11, 2017)

@ttystikk I've got a question for ya and I'm not sure how to word it or I'd throw up a thread and let everyone chime in.
When you were researching before going vertical did u find much on what the optimal plant size is? What I mean is the way that the led crew has focused in on efficiency and bang for buck but on the plant side.
Here's how the convo came up.
I was sitting around the campfire one night last week with a few folks I know and a half dozen I don't. Joints were steady circling and one guy gets preaching bout weed.
Claims his "friend" has a 40 foot container with one plant in it. Mainlined down the centre of the trailer supported by sawhorses one giant dwc res at the end. I laughed and said about a lb. Tried to explain that at some point the amount of effort the plant uses to flower buds 40 feet away from its roots has to show diminishing returns. Not to mention the obvious 6-8months veg.
More I thought about it tho I felt like an asshole because I've read a lot but can't recall ever reading if there was a guideline for efficient plant sizing. 
Total garden efficiency I guess
Time/size/energy/payoff maybe too much to include into one stat line but I think a much better measure of a grower then grams per watt?

Shouldn't of had that second phatty it's not even noon


----------



## zoic (Jun 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Time/size/energy/payoff


I think you could drive yourself crazy trying to analyze all that data and forming a sustainable conclusion. I think size is the key factor. I have seen pics of 14 footers (Colombian I think) that had a stem the size of my leg at the base. I expect that the stem on a 40 footer would be massive as it continues to add mass not only to support the weight but to provide more paths for feeding. I tend to believe that the plant will decide its size based on many factors, just like it does indoors. It would be interesting if you could find out how well it produces flowers in the extremities.


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## torontoke (Jun 11, 2017)

zoic said:


> I think you could drive yourself crazy trying to analyze all that data and forming a sustainable conclusion. I think size is the key factor. I have seen pics of 14 footers (Colombian I think) that had a stem the size of my leg at the base. I expect that the stem on a 40 footer would be massive as it continues to add mass not only to support the weight but to provide more paths for feeding. I tend to believe that the plant will decide its size based on many factors, just like it does indoors. It would be interesting if you could find out how well it produces flowers in the extremities.


That's not really much of a drive sir
More of a small jump 

I assumed that the stalk size would have to be incredible to pump 40foot budsites but the time required to grow out such a stem must be beyond worthwhile. Time is the unpurchasable grow supply.
In the time to veg that beast I'd have done two or three crops so not so efficient or am I wrong.


----------



## zoic (Jun 11, 2017)

I cannot say if your are wrong or not without some statistical analysis, if there is even a wrong or a right. Look at it the same as your 8 hours flowering experiment where there is no right or wrong, because it is an experiment. If I could do what this guy did I probably would, just to say look at this thing, really. The analysis of the outcome will likely determine whether or nor it was worthwhile. It is the same for me with my single LED bulb experiment. It is flowering but not likely to produce anything but popcorn buds and not even 5 grams I expect. It is unlikely I will try it again.


----------



## torontoke (Jun 11, 2017)

zoic said:


> I cannot say if your are wrong or not without some statistical analysis, if there is even a wrong or a right. Look at it the same as your 8 hours flowering experiment where there is no right or wrong, because it is an experiment. If I could do what this guy did I probably would, just to say look at this thing, really. The analysis of the outcome will likely determine whether or nor it was worthwhile. It is the same for me with my single LED bulb experiment. It is flowering but not likely to produce anything but popcorn buds and not even 5 grams I expect. It is unlikely I will try it again.


The 8hr experiment is actually a good comparison but I did learn that there is a light saturation level that once you go over your get diminishing return on energy used.
That was a side note to the fact that I did it to see if 8hrs would even flower.
I'm sure you could veg a plant for a year and harvest ridiculous Weight but to offset a years worth of smaller harvest I'm not sure.
Time to switch to the weak weed for me


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## ttystikk (Jun 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> @ttystikk I've got a question for ya and I'm not sure how to word it or I'd throw up a thread and let everyone chime in.
> When you were researching before going vertical did u find much on what the optimal plant size is? What I mean is the way that the led crew has focused in on efficiency and bang for buck but on the plant side.
> Here's how the convo came up.
> I was sitting around the campfire one night last week with a few folks I know and a half dozen I don't. Joints were steady circling and one guy gets preaching bout weed.
> ...


The plant you're describing is both outdoors and huge.

Since people are measuring results- and therefore dicks- using grams per watt, this doesn't translate well.

I've found that smaller plants indoors generally do a better job of filling in the canopy and there's a little more vigor with more smaller plants vs fewer larger ones.

One plant in a 40' container seems extreme.


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## ttystikk (Jun 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> That's not really much of a drive sir
> More of a small jump
> 
> I assumed that the stalk size would have to be incredible to pump 40foot budsites but the time required to grow out such a stem must be beyond worthwhile. Time is the unpurchasable grow supply.
> In the time to veg that beast I'd have done two or three crops so not so efficient or am I wrong.


I agree with your assessment about time. I dealt with it by staging batches and moving plants so my bloom space was always in bloom with plants that were the right size.


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## torontoke (Jun 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The plant you're describing is both outdoors and huge.
> 
> Since people are measuring results- and therefore dicks- using grams per watt, this doesn't translate well.
> 
> ...


Not really thinking bout it in terms of dick measuring or even comparing other grows.
I am thinking of a total statistic to compare methods in the same grow.
Plants counts being the limiting factor from running 1000solo cups vs 10 10gal pails 

The 40foot plant was inside a container with a bunch of lights. What type dude didn't know.

I think too much sometimes


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## ttystikk (Jun 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Not really thinking bout it in terms of dick measuring or even comparing other grows.
> I am thinking of a total statistic to compare methods in the same grow.
> Plants counts being the limiting factor from running 1000solo cups vs 10 10gal pails
> 
> ...


I think the advantage goes to more smaller plants. I haven't seen anything like a graph quantifying that, but I'd like to.

Plant counts are definitely a limiting factor.


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## torontoke (Jun 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I think the advantage goes to more smaller plants. I haven't seen anything like a graph quantifying that, but I'd like to.
> 
> Plant counts are definitely a limiting factor.


I truly think time is the honest equalizer when discussions of comparisons come up at all.
Size of medium/root mass is dictated by time. Yield is then dependant on root size.
Gram per day total for veg and flower added together? Seems to make more sense then gram per watt anyway 

I'm not as convinced about tiny plants huge numbers yielding more 

I guess I was hoping there was some magic graphs that I've been to high to hear about


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## torontoke (Jun 11, 2017)

Seed run has started.
2 landos stash
3 gmt
2 rku
1 rku x rks

1 of the rku already has balls.
The rest look female but it's early
Any other males will be swapped out for either landos stash, lucky charms or false teeth


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## torontoke (Jun 12, 2017)

Elfinstone nugs that sure smokes nice for being so prematurely chopped.
 
Everyone that try's it has asked where I bought it. Crazy to imagine how good it could be


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## zoic (Jun 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Elfinstone nugs that sure smokes nice for being so prematurely chopped.
> Everyone that try's it has asked where I bought it. Crazy to imagine how good it could be


See that is where I am stuck, on when is the right time to cut. It seems that may not be as cut and dry (pardon the pun) as some people want to contend. I wanted to test that and analyze it a bit, which is why I snip a bud from a plant 3-4 days before I chop it, so I can try it out first if possible. Amber trichs have eluded me so far, but at least I know to look out for them. After 65 or more days I will work it out from the size of the bulbs on the ends of the trichs.

N.B. I noticed your table has notches. Are they for all the ladies (plants) you have had on it?


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## torontoke (Jun 12, 2017)

zoic said:


> See that is where I am stuck, on when is the right time to cut. It seems that may not be as cut and dry (pardon the pun) as some people want to contend. I wanted to test that and analyze it a bit, which is why I snip a bud from a plant 3-4 days before I chop it, so I can try it out first if possible. Amber trichs have eluded me so far, but at least I know to look out for them. After 65 or more days I will work it out from the size of the bulbs on the ends of the trichs.
> 
> N.B. I noticed your table has notches. Are they for all the ladies (plants) you have had on it?


That table is actually fairly new but was supposed to come with the distressed look lol now it looks ruined. There's been a few plants on it.

I was being sarcastic about that bud being done.
Far as I'm concerned it was well done maybe went a day too long.
Truth is when u chop is personal preference.
Some folks like taking them early for a head high some wait for the couch lock just prior to deterioration. I usually chop when they are 25-30% amber regardless what day it is.
People can call me anything they want or judge my grows I'm fresh out of shits to give.


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## zoic (Jun 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I was being sarcastic about that bud being done


Thanks for sharing that, LOL. When I went back to look at it larger I could not figure out why it was not ready. Since I have much less experience I thought I might figure it out someday. I agree that when to chop is really a value judgement. Cheers!


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## torontoke (Jun 12, 2017)

zoic said:


> Thanks for sharing that, LOL. When I went back to look at it larger I could not figure out why it was not ready. Since I have much less experience I thought I might figure it out someday. I agree that when to chop is really a value judgement. Cheers!


I get chirped often because my plants finisher quicker then the so called "experts" claim is possible.
So I'm a noob or rushing....like I don't have jars squirrelled away everywhere.
U have the right idea tho
Take some early some late see which one u like better. Then u will know what to look for next time.


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## torontoke (Jun 14, 2017)

Roadkill unicorn balls
 
Everything else is looking female


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## torontoke (Jun 14, 2017)

Planning to snip a few branches off that male and saving some of the pollen to paint on to the lucky charms and whatever else I run next.
Should leave me with enough seed to never have to buy more ever again. Which means nothing because I'm addicted to trying new gear


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## torontoke (Jun 17, 2017)

This seed run has really got me back to thinking about the Seed bank idea.
Not looking to start selling crosses but more likely the bank idea I thought about in the past to stockpile and store quality genetics to keep the good positive karma going.
75% of the seeds in my stash have been gifts donations and prizes so all the more reason to share the wealth.
But I'm gonna need testers before I focus on bxing and f2

Would any of you guys actually want to run any of these?

Roadkill unicorn f2
Roadkill skunk/unicorn x. Roadkill unicorn
Gmt x roadkill unicorn
Landos stash x roadkill unicorn
Lucky charms x roadkill unicorn
Space monkey x roadkill unicorn
More cowbell x roadkill unicorn

Gmt f3
Rku x gmt
Rku/s x gmt
Landos stash x gmt
Lucky charms x gmt
Space monkey x gmt
More cowbell x gmt

I'd rather not bother making certain ones if they aren't desirable to anyone but me lol


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## budLIFE60 (Jun 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> This seed run has really got me back to thinking about the Seed bank idea.
> Not looking to start selling crosses but more likely the bank idea I thought about in the past to stockpile and store quality genetics to keep the good positive karma going.
> 75% of the seeds in my stash have been gifts donations and prizes so all the more reason to share the wealth.
> But I'm gonna need testers before I focus on bxing and f2
> ...


I'd be interested in running some of those 
I'm really into the road kill unicorn lately. Got some testers I'm running for doc d of RKUf2 Bodhi's cut x Headbanger. Would be interested to run yours side by side.


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## torontoke (Jun 17, 2017)

budLIFE60 said:


> I'd be interested in running some of those
> I'm really into the road kill unicorn lately. Got some testers I'm running for doc d of RKUf2 Bodhi's cut x Headbanger. Would be interested to run yours side by side.


I have the rku f2's from a generous fellow member. They are in flower right now.
This will be my first attempt at an intentional cross or ten.
Soon as they are dry testing shall begin and hopefully some fire will be found.

I'd like to see how those testers turn out too actually. I've never ran a headbanger cross.


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## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2017)

I'm down for some Lucky charms or space monkey crosses.


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## budLIFE60 (Jun 17, 2017)

Hope I'm lucky enough to be around to snag some from ya. Sounds like a good thing you got going on brother.

Nor have I. Hope its as good of a sativa as they say will be cool to see how it turns out with the RKU.

I'm actually going to be running 15 sunshine daydream x purple wookie from seed under either 10/14 or 8/16 light cycle for flower thanks to you. Lots of good info in this thread. Have only made it through the first 15 pages so far are you still running 8 hours of light for flower or have you switched it up? 

Will post update pics if that's cool gonna start flowering today. Will add some shots of the rku x head banger if you dont mind


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## torontoke (Jun 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm down for some Lucky charms or space monkey crosses.


Lucky charms and space monkey are in my veg tent right now.
They will be the next run and you sir are more then welcome to em.
Probably be a few months but hopefully worth it.



budLIFE60 said:


> Hope I'm lucky enough to be around to snag some from ya. Sounds like a good thing you got going on brother.
> 
> Nor have I. Hope its as good of a sativa as they say will be cool to see how it turns out with the RKU.
> 
> ...


I still only run 8hrs
Was thinking about switching it to 10 awhile back but now that I'm using the led I can keep myself well stocked with 8 so I kept doing it.
Your welcome to post updates and I'm sure everyone would love to see more pics.
Soon as beans are done I'll let everyone know


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## zoic (Jun 17, 2017)

Well I am still digging into the genetics and their effects which may result in me changing directions, but I definitely think anything with GMT (Grand Master Tahoe right?) will be a positive for muscle spasms and chronic pain. You can count me as *interested* and you can expect a detailed report of flowering.


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## torontoke (Jun 17, 2017)

Rku female from the veg tent
Going into flowering once I pull the male.
Landos stash
 
Rku


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## torontoke (Jun 17, 2017)

zoic said:


> Well I am still digging into the genetics and their effects which may result in me changing directions, but I definitely think anything with GMT (Grand Master Tahoe right?) will be a positive for muscle spasms and chronic pain. You can count me as *interested* and you can expect a detailed report of flowering.


It's a real Cali cut Tahoe og x Tahoe og bx f3 should be awesome for pain and spasms.


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## ttystikk (Jun 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Rku female from the veg tent
> Going into flowering once I pull the male.View attachment 3962540
> Landos stash
> View attachment 3962541
> RkuView attachment 3962544


Do you do any topping or training on your plants?


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## torontoke (Jun 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Do you do any topping or training on your plants?


The landos were topped early and tied back with pipe cleaners for a few weeks.
The rku were grown specifically for this seed run so they weren't topped.


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## torontoke (Jun 18, 2017)

Gmt f3 

Rku f
 
Pulled the gmt male and put the last female in.


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## torontoke (Jun 18, 2017)

No walking into the sunset for me.
Fell well below my goal this run.
Was waiting for a proper dry and after trimming out stems and popcorn larfe I was smacked back into reality.
Think I just found the limit of this cabinet yield wise.
Last time with 6 plants in the same size container roughly the same veg time total yield was higher then this run of 8.

Elfinstone 1 36 grams
Elfinstone 2 38 grams
Elfinstone 3 42 grams
Dream beaver 1 42 grams
Dream beaver 2 37 grams
More cowbell 34 grams
Space monkey 29 grams
Grampas breath 33 grams
Total 291 grams
180watts 
First runs with new genetics plays a role I'm sure but Going to say most of not reaching my goal was my own fault for not training more and I'll make a mental note and move on. Can this small of a grow yield a lb? I intend to keep trying


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## ttystikk (Jun 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No walking into the sunset for me.
> Fell well below my goal this run.
> Was waiting for a proper dry and after trimming out stems and popcorn larfe I was smacked back into reality.
> Think I just found the limit of this cabinet yield wise.
> ...


I'm sorry it didn't meet expectations.

I find failure to be more instructive than success, most of the time. I've received a lot of instruction in my time, lol


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## torontoke (Jun 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm sorry it didn't meet expectations.
> 
> I find failure to be more instructive than success, most of the time. I've received a lot of instruction in my time, lol


I had a sense this was coming.
It's a tiny space so I'm not going to get down about it sir.
Less then 6sqft is limiting and the challenge is something to work on while sampling the fruit of failure.


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## GroErr (Jun 19, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I had a sense this was coming.
> It's a tiny space so I'm not going to get down about it sir.
> Less then 6sqft is limiting and the challenge is something to work on while sampling the fruit of failure.


290g's is nothing to sneeze at in that space, if the quality's there which looks like it, it's almost enough bud to build a house (or at least get a good start on it!)


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## torontoke (Jun 19, 2017)

GroErr said:


> 290g's is nothing to sneeze at in that space, if the quality's there which looks like it, it's almost enough bud to build a house (or at least get a good start on it!)


Thanks g
It's certainly enough to last me 50ish days.
Not complaining really with my small cabinet and only 180 watts on only 8hrs I'm not ashamed of the yield but I'm certainly not bragging about the results either.
After the next couple seed runs I'm going to try 6 bigger multi topped plants and take the challenge a lil more serious.
I'll get a lb out of 6sq ft and then I'll know the exact recipe for a 100sq ft room etc.
Let downs keep us humble and hungry sir


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## GroErr (Jun 19, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks g
> It's certainly enough to last me 50ish days.
> Not complaining really with my small cabinet and only 180 watts on only 8hrs I'm not ashamed of the yield but I'm certainly not bragging about the results either.
> After the next couple seed runs I'm going to try 6 bigger multi topped plants and take the challenge a lil more serious.
> ...


Certainly no shame in that run, with that wattage and 8hr. cycles I'd be very happy with that weight.

To maximize weights you're heading in the right direction, these LED's can grow 30" of bud so a little more veg and some training to get them 30-36" high after the stretch you could pull some more weight. From seed though it's always a variable, you never know the production, how much they'll stretch, all you can do is take a best guess and let them do their thing.


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## torontoke (Jun 19, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Certainly no shame in that run, with that wattage and 8hr. cycles I'd be very happy with that weight.
> 
> To maximize weights you're heading in the right direction, these LED's can grow 30" of bud so a little more veg and some training to get them 30-36" high after the stretch you could pull some more weight. From seed though it's always a variable, you never know the production, how much they'll stretch, all you can do is take a best guess and let them do their thing.


Yes sir
I know from experience in the past before leaving 12/12 that even the second run using clones can vastly improve yield and zeroing in on specific phenos with more training veg I should be able to double some plant yields.
I'm usually running new seeds with various phenos and not the best gauge for judging what's holding back the numbers.

Lots of good smoke to enjoy in the meantime


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## zoic (Jun 19, 2017)

I feel for you, I really do. If it makes you feel any better my first chop yielded a whopping 6.8g. I do expect the remainder of the plants to be more and I am hoping one of them hits a 1/2 oz. I am not disappointed, it has been good smoke so far, and clean.


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## torontoke (Jun 19, 2017)

zoic said:


> I feel for you, I really do. If it makes you feel any better my first chop yielded a whopping 6.8g. I do expect the remainder of the plants to be more and I am hoping one of them hits a 1/2 oz. I am not disappointed, it has been good smoke so far, and clean.


Onwards and upwards sir.
Obstacles and hurdles in life are what make us enjoy the smooth sections.
The fact that it yielded anything and is good smoke is reason enough to do it again and do it better.
I'm heavily medicated literally every minute that I'm awake what do I have to complain about.


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## torontoke (Jun 20, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Jun 22, 2017)




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## torontoke (Jun 22, 2017)

Pollen is everywhere in there.
Plus it looks like I'll have a bag to save for the next round cept I'll only hit the lowers.

Landos stash x rku
Rku x rku f2
Rku x rks X rku
Gmt x rku
Should be plumping up anytime now.
Going to remove the male and bag him up tomorrow.
Then I'll spread everyone out and take a good group shot.


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## GroErr (Jun 22, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Pollen is everywhere in there.
> Plus it looks like I'll have a bag to save for the next round crept I'll only hit the lowers.
> 
> Landos stash x rku
> ...


Nice, open pollinated plants = tons of seeds  As soon as that first leaf came up on screen I saw the male flowers on it and knew what was going on, a familiar sight in my breeding tent  I collect after open pollinating, usually a bunch left to use later.


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## torontoke (Jun 22, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Nice, open pollinated plants = tons of seeds  As soon as that first leaf came up on screen I saw the male flowers on it and knew what was going on, a familiar sight in my breeding tent  I collect after open pollinating, usually a bunch left to use later.


Yes sir
I used the two nicest gmt I had in veg and well all the females I got from rku and landos stash.
That giant Indy fan is the gmt.
I'll separate all the seed into different lots and then run however many test germs and see if there's a good enough pop and growth rate to run testers and maybe I'll hit the lotto. Hit the testers with the dad pollen who knows how deep it will be worth going.

Either way that seed fairy will find her loads getting heavier and heavier.


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## zoic (Jun 22, 2017)

Jeez, when I saw all those pollen bags I figured you could go a long way with it. Do you store it in the fridge if you want to save some?


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## torontoke (Jun 22, 2017)

zoic said:


> Jeez, when I saw all those pollen bags I figured you could go a long way with it. Do you store it in the fridge if you want to save some?


Exactly.
If I find a great plant out of the testers and I paint some of that pollen on to it then it increases the chances of locking in that pheno. Plus I want to use that roadkill uni pollen on the plants in my veg tent to make the other half of the crosses.
Then I'll have a good mix of crosses to focus in on and find the best ones and bobs ur uncle.
Pollen in a fridge should stay viable at least 6-8months.
I have a gmt male in my veg tent that I might keep an eye on for more pollen.


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## hillbill (Jun 24, 2017)

I may try 10/14 if I can summon the courage but there is also a little voice saying trade the savings for more watts during lights on. I remember reading about reduced hours but the claim was that flower time increased so I didn't try it. @torontoke seems to have done and repeatedly done due diligence here. Might have to go see the Wizard for courage.


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## torontoke (Jun 24, 2017)

hillbill said:


> I may try 10/14 if I can summon the courage but there is also a little voice saying trade the savings for more watts during lights on. I remember reading about reduced hours but the claim was that flower time increased so I didn't try it. @torontoke seems to have done and repeatedly done due diligence here. Might have to go see the Wizard for courage.


I don't know if I'd call it courage that prompted me to try this. More like boredom and curiousity.
Now as far as your thoughts on using the saved hours for extra wattage.....that depends.
Depends most on what your lighting numbers are like now. This is just my hypothesis really and clearly I'm not a scientist or even a qualified bro scientist but from what I've seen over the years is most indoor growers go way overboard.
And 12 hours of way to many watts takes the plants over the line of diminishing return. I noticed that by the 9th hour during 12/12 that the plants begin shut down mode. I could visibly see that they couldn't or weren't taking in and processing those extra hours.
When I tired 6/18 with the 400mh it was obvious that it wasn't enough time to fill out completely to be worthwhile.
When I switched to 8/16 with the mh they filled in almost as much as I'd have gotten with 12/12. Once I switched to the led and the better spectrum and extra photons took over I doubt I'm losing anything besides hydro costs.
But every garden/space is different.
I've been tweaking this cabinet for a few years now and I'm finding limits to the amount of yield/physical growspace vs the amount of lights on.

Lots of trial error and repeating has occurred to lead me down the path I'm on now and I always recommend everyone choose their own path but at least people can choose knowing that their are options in the grow game.

Edit: oh and reducing hours speeds up the entire flower process but even dropping an hour or two the last few weeks can dramatically speed up finish. That's not just my opinion but most people who have tried playing around with cycles.

Thanks for popping in hillbill


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## hillbill (Jun 24, 2017)

Just reset to 10/14 and really I run COBs and still a couple a51 panels and can't really use more of those photons in my space. I am perpetual so the days will be constant. Respected people seem to do well with it. Boom! Boom! Out go the lights!


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## torontoke (Jun 24, 2017)

Tiger mountain
Deadhead og x lbl
Space monkey
 
More cowbell


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## zoic (Jun 24, 2017)

And the landscape is a flourish with beauty. 

Those are some nice looking plants.


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## torontoke (Jun 24, 2017)

Thanks bud
They are coming along nicely 
Shortest ones are around 3' tallest ones are 5-6'
Should be nice if they make it.
Fingers crossed


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## zoic (Jun 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Should be nice if they make it.


I am sure they will be nice WHEN they make it and I really hope they make it home with YOU. I wanted to do that this year but my timing was a little off. The plants are just a little over 3 weeks old, I would rather have had 6-8 weeks just to start, last month. I will just use this year to scout out some spots.


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## torontoke (Jun 24, 2017)

zoic said:


> I am sure they will be nice WHEN they make it and I really hope they make it home with YOU. I wanted to do that this year but my timing was a little off. The plants are just a little over 3 weeks old, I would rather have had 6-8 weeks just to start, last month. I will just use this year to scout out some spots.


Start vegging some next march April to go out end of may June and you will be surprised.
I was lucky the soil here is rich af
Tons of oak and other trees have been creating an awesome mix since god was young and all I did was add in a lil homemade bio char and fed them once.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I don't know if I'd call it courage that prompted me to try this. More like boredom and curiousity.
> Now as far as your thoughts on using the saved hours for extra wattage.....that depends.
> Depends most on what your lighting numbers are like now. This is just my hypothesis really and clearly I'm not a scientist or even a qualified bro scientist but from what I've seen over the years is most indoor growers go way overboard.
> And 12 hours of way to many watts takes the plants over the line of diminishing return. I noticed that by the 9th hour during 12/12 that the plants begin shut down mode. I could visibly see that they couldn't or weren't taking in and processing those extra hours.
> ...


It would be enlightening to see you run the very same space, lights and strains 12/12 just to quantify the differences.


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## torontoke (Jun 24, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> It would be enlightening to see you run the very same space, lights and strains 12/12 just to quantify the differences.


I contemplated this myself a few runs ago.
And it was suggested back near the beginning of the thread.
Prior to installing the qbs it almost happened a few times.
Perhaps now I'm just not as convinced that I can get any more out of this cabinet with such low wattage.
I could be way off tho
Maybe it's just that I've accepted that the yield from 8 hours is enough.
Thanks like I needed more to think about


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## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I contemplated this myself a few runs ago.
> And it was suggested back near the beginning of the thread.
> Prior to installing the qbs it almost happened a few times.
> Perhaps now I'm just not as convinced that I can get any more out of this cabinet with such low wattage.
> ...


Lol what are friends for?


----------



## Rooster802 (Jun 25, 2017)

I've been following this thread for a while. Don't need weight, and I'm intrigued so I took my little 32" x 32" tent and put the lights on 10/14 (ok, I'm a pussy, I'll go 8/16 if I get a decent harvest at 10/14). I don't have your experience or knowledge, just trying to find out the best way for me to grow personal use. I'm two weeks in today, and I have an OG Kush in DWC that is maturing faster and looks healthier than anything else I've run yet. But I also just switched to Jack's hydro and got my res temps under better control so who knows why? All I can say is I think for my needs a shorter light schedule is going to be work better. Thanks for writing all this shit down and not being afraid to challenge conventional wisdom. The world will always need people who aren't afraid to go against the grain, and even more difficult, publish their results in the face of overwhelming criticism. You keep doing your thing bro, you are appreciated.


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## torontoke (Jun 25, 2017)

Rooster802 said:


> I've been following this thread for a while. Don't need weight, and I'm intrigued so I took my little 32" x 32" tent and put the lights on 10/14 (ok, I'm a pussy, I'll go 8/16 if I get a decent harvest at 10/14). I don't have your experience or knowledge, just trying to find out the best way for me to grow personal use. I'm two weeks in today, and I have an OG Kush in DWC that is maturing faster and looks healthier than anything else I've run yet. But I also just switched to Jack's hydro and got my res temps under better control so who knows why? All I can say is I think for my needs a shorter light schedule is going to be work better. Thanks for writing all this shit down and not being afraid to challenge conventional wisdom. The world will always need people who aren't afraid to go against the grain, and even more difficult, publish their results in the face of overwhelming criticism. You keep doing your thing bro, you are appreciated.


Thanks a lot for that sir
It's always nice to hear positive feedback.
I wish you the best of luck on your grow and please feel free to drop by any time with updates.
I'd love to hear how 10/14 is working for you


----------



## torontoke (Jun 25, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Lol what are friends for?


Lol fair enough bud

I spent the last few days out of the city doing a lot of thinking and I've got a idea.
I'm committed to this seed run I have started and I'd like to hit a few in my veg tent next round with pollen but I'll veg a plant and take 10 clones.
5 will go in my cabinet on 8/16 
5 will stay in my tent but I'll swallow and put the timer on 12/12
Tent is roughly the same size 
Now I just need to build another light in the next 75days.

Then there will be exact numbers to directly compare and I get the bro science diploma.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol fair enough bud
> 
> I spent the last few days out of the city doing a lot of thinking and I've got a idea.
> I'm committed to this seed run I have started and I'd like to hit a few in my veg tent next round with pollen but I'll veg a plant and take 10 clones.
> ...


My expectation is that the 12/12 side will yield enough more to pay for the difference in power and time vs space used, but not a lot more.

This has me thinking... Again lol


----------



## torontoke (Jun 25, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> My expectation is that the 12/12 side will yield enough more to pay for the difference in power and time vs space used, but not a lot more.
> 
> This has me thinking... Again lol


My expectations are the exact opposite.
I think the extra 4 hours make for a slightly warmer definitely longer exposure to more photons then they can handle.
Now to get my hands on some boards with s5 chips.


----------



## torontoke (Jun 25, 2017)

Hopefully we here back from some of the other people switching to 10 and 11 and we will really have some results to measure.
We already are kind of seeing it tho.
More and more people are switching to 10,10.5,11,11.5 without the catastrophic loses the experts warned about.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Hopefully we here back from some of the other people switching to 10 and 11 and we will really have some results to measure.
> We already are kind of seeing it tho.
> More and more people are switching to 10,10.5,11,11.5 without the catastrophic loses the experts warned about.


A difference of only 5% yield would pay the extra variable costs as long as the price of the product remains high. This would not hold true if the price fell significantly.

Since I expect prices to keep falling over time, I'm placing my bets now.


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## torontoke (Jun 25, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> A difference of only 5% yield would pay the extra variable costs as long as the price of the product remains high. This would not hold true if the price fell significantly.
> 
> Since I expect prices to keep falling over time, I'm placing my bets now.


Must be the dreamer in me that lives in fantasyland my man
I never think of it financially because I only grow for me. And the only thing that matters to me really is quality and turnover.
For the commercial grower or even cash croppers in general I think anything I'm doing is sort of a moot point.
If others were paying my bills I wouldn't care how much the bills were either.

I've always looked at this from a micro management angle. How much can I do with little.
How can I make that better and turn a little to a lot.
A thread on how can I make the most money growing weed would have been a lot simpler imho and I have zero interest in starting any more debates round here.
Efficiency and profitability don't always go together maybe


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Must be the dreamer in me that lives in fantasyland my man
> I never think of it financially because I only grow for me. And the only thing that matters to me really is quality and turnover.
> For the commercial grower or even cash croppers in general I think anything I'm doing is sort of a moot point.
> If others were paying my bills I wouldn't care how much the bills were either.
> ...


For your purposes I would agree completely; since there's no sales in your situation, it doesn't make any sense to make that calculation.

Since I AM interested in developing solutions for commercial users however, I believe that knowing such calculations and break even points is potentially valuable. I'm not asking you to make any such judgements; that's my job.

I see a very promising idea and I'm excited to see where it leads. Frankly, the calculations matter for much more than Cannabis; for all the money in it, this whole industry is a tiny backwater compared to the larger agricultural market. Therefore, all the work being done to improve efficiency and reduce cost makes it that much more attractive for people growing everything from tomatoes to lettuce.


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## torontoke (Jun 25, 2017)

Ttystick I really hope you didn't think I was casting any kind of shade on growers for profit. I re read my post and it could be read from the wrong perspective.
All I meant was that I never really considered the financial side evening out after a certain wattage level.
As u said a 5% yield loss would negate any savings to a commercial grower but to a personal grower that would be a fair trade off since they probably average a certain % as extra or overage.
I'm more curious about where the actual line of diminishing return occurs because those 8hr buds didn't really leave much available space for much more.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ttystick I really hope you didn't think I was casting any kind of shade on growers for profit. I re read my post and it could be read from the wrong perspective.
> All I meant was that I never really considered the financial side evening out after a certain wattage level.
> As u said a 5% yield loss would negate any savings to a commercial grower but to a personal grower that would be a fair trade off since they probably average a certain % as extra or overage.
> I'm more curious about where the actual line of diminishing return occurs because those 8hr buds didn't really leave much available space for much more.


Nope, it's all sunny here in Philadelphia! Lol

I think the break even will change as price per unit weight changes.

I'm curious how far price would have to fall to make the short day competitive.


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## hillbill (Jun 26, 2017)

I have only gone to 11 1/2 hours in the past for the sake of Sativa to begin or to finish flower. That did no harm from just casual observation. Plant that grow outdoors here do finish with substantially less than 12 hours of daylight and much less in the hollows.


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

hillbill said:


> I have only gone to 11 1/2 hours in the past for the sake of Sativa to begin or to finish flower. That did no harm from just casual observation. Plant that grow outdoors here do finish with substantially less than 12 hours of daylight and much less in the hollows.


Oh I know sir
The last 60 plus pages of this thread is all bud grown under fewer hours then that.
But I think most people are looking for a hard number to pin down.
Each hour of light equals x amount of yield.

More runs and a controlled, this verse that type of experiment that I never bothered with since I saw first hand the difference closing in on other people's rooms.
Now I realize what I saw first hand doesn't help anyone that requires proof with their own eyes. I understand that completely.


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Nope, it's all sunny here in Philadelphia! Lol
> 
> I think the break even will change as price per unit weight changes.
> 
> I'm curious how far price would have to fall to make the short day competitive.


While the price of weed per gram will continue to plummet the cost of energy will continue to rise.
So the offset or divide might take longer to balance out.
The value of meds will fall to the point that even 12/12 growing will be hardly worth doing if profit is the goal.
Of course I'm just medicated speculating but there's a lot of if buts and coulda shoulda scenarios about to play themselves out.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 26, 2017)

torontoke said:


> While the price of weed per gram will continue to plummet the cost of energy will continue to rise.
> So the offset or divide might take longer to balance out.
> The value of meds will fall to the point that even 12/12 growing will be hardly worth doing if profit is the goal.
> Of course I'm just medicated speculating but there's a lot of if buts and coulda shoulda scenarios about to play themselves out.


I'm thinking that shorter on times will be a good way to produce the product for less cost and that falling product prices and rising power costs will both drive operators in this direction.


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm thinking that shorter on times will be a good way to produce the product for less cost and that falling product prices and rising power costs will both drive operators in this direction.


I'm expecting hate emails and threats from the power companies already.

I think we are on the cusp of weed becoming worthless. Only A handful of serious smokers are going to continue growing and by then your probably right how to do it cheapest will dominate the market.
You guys have a few legal states... up here theyre talking about every adult allowed to grow 4 100cm plants.
So who's buying after that? I would say that 99% of what's grown after next July will be horse feed but quantity always seems to dictate price over quality.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 26, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm expecting hate emails and threats from the power companies already.
> 
> I think we are on the cusp of weed becoming worthless. Only A handful of serious smokers are going to continue growing and by then your probably right how to do it cheapest will dominate the market.
> You guys have a few legal states... up here theyre talking about every adult allowed to grow 4 100cm plants.
> So who's buying after that? I would say that 99% of what's grown after next July will be horse feed but quantity always seems to dictate price over quality.


4 100cm tall plants doesn't sound like a limitless supply as much as a guaranteed excuse to hassle you granted to the mounties.

Would you believe the power companies actually want the Cannabis industry to use less power? Otherwise they have to buy or build the extra capacity. Both are very expensive. They're all kinds of on board with saving energy.


----------



## Johnei (Jun 26, 2017)

Really great thread torontoke man, and some very interesting conversation goin on here. I'm learning a lot.
Respect guys. I've got to spend the time to read back into this thread more.
Ok, carry on, don't mind me. lol


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## ThcGuy (Jun 26, 2017)

First off, great thread, it took me two days to read most of it...I did skip a few pages .

I want to try lower hours but I'm on my first grow in a very very long time so I am going to run 12/12 to get a base line weight for my set up.

Also Alberta has a price cap on power set at 6.8 cents/KWH, currently I am locked in under 5.5 cents/KWH, so cutting 4 hours a day would only save me ~25 cents/day or less than $10/month to run my 1000w HPS for the 8/16. So if cutting hours of light cost any loss of weight, it wouldn't be as efficient when compared to running 12/12. I would really like to try this though just to figure out exactly where the yield or quality starts to drop off compared to 12/12.

Great thread man, keep up the good work!


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> 4 100cm tall plants doesn't sound like a limitless supply as much as a guaranteed excuse to hassle you granted to the mounties.
> 
> Would you believe the power companies actually want the Cannabis industry to use less power? Otherwise they have to buy or build the extra capacity. Both are very expensive. They're all kinds of on board with saving energy.


Who's really going to grow 4 plants bud?
I bet everyone that runs 4 runs at least 8 
And once crops start coming in then buying stops and the prices crash.
There will be 2-5million grow experts over night. We'll see these forums flooded.

I was only joking about the power companies bro.


----------



## Johnei (Jun 26, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> I want to try lower hours but I'm on my first grow in a very very long time so I am going to run 12/12 to get a base line weight for my set up.
> 
> Also Alberta has a price cap on power set at 6.8 cents/KWH, currently I am locked in under 5.5 cents/KWH, so cutting 4 hours a day would only save me ~25 cents/day or less than $10/month to run my 1000w HPS. So if cutting hours of light cost any loss of weight, it wouldn't be as efficient when compared to running 12/12. I would really like to try this though just to figure out exactly where the yield or quality starts to drop off compared to 12/12.
> 
> Great thread man, keep up the good work!


Exactly my thoughts as well bro. Just my kw/h numbers are almost double what you mentioned in your post. Really would llike to try, but first grow back at it after sooo long, I've really gotta be sure. Testing is the only way I guess.
And the 12/12 instilled in us from days past, not every strain needs this much daylight hrs I think, we are all just using a 12/12 for a kind of protection that works with all strains, if ya know what I mean. There is room for improvement, always.
(edit- Actually, more than double kw/h $ what you posted, for me here.)


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> First off, great thread, it took me two days to read most of it...I did skip a few pages .
> 
> I want to try lower hours but I'm on my first grow in a very very long time so I am going to run 12/12 to get a base line weight for my set up.
> 
> ...


We aren't so lucky round here.
Power bills were insane years past.
33% doesn't seem like much with your rates maybe but my uncle was getting a 3000$ bill every two months 33% to him is groceries or mortgage payment.

And don't believe the hype. If reduced hours caused quality to drop off then I'd have noticed and I've tried weed from just about everywhere.


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## Johnei (Jun 26, 2017)

Hey man, sorry, but can you give me a small recap of the results of this experiment, I will read it all, but I sort of, want to know right now. lol I'm really very extremely interested... if ya feel like it.. or maybe link me to a good post back in this thread so you dont have to double type.


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

@Johnei and @ThcGuy
Thanks for joining in and the kind words


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

Johnei said:


> Hey man, sorry, but can you give me a small recap of the results of this experiment, I will read it all, but I sort of, want to know right now. lol I'm really very extremely interested... if ya feel like it.. or maybe link me to a good post back in this thread so you dont have to double type.


My best run so far in the cabinet

Yielded 355 grams plus unweighed trim using 180watts in 48days
Cab is 36"wide 22" deep and 56"tall

Edit:Coles notes for the stoners


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## Johnei (Jun 26, 2017)

That's 2grams per watt, and plants look fat! Very interesting brother. Now I read this thread from the start....

Thanks.


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

Johnei said:


> That's 2grams per watt, and plants look fat! Very interesting brother. Now I read this thread from the start....
> 
> Thanks.


I wouldn't
No need now


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## Johnei (Jun 26, 2017)

LOL!!! ... hey man, I like to read your stuff.. don't say that.

LOL!!! that was funny.

ok maybe I will or maybe I won't, I'm just not gonna tell you. lolololol


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

Males removed and 6 preggers remain.
Ended up with a fair amount of rku and gmt pollen to use next run.
Looks like I won't be buying seeds ever again


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## BobCajun (Jun 26, 2017)

Just point everyone to the summary post you gave me a while ago. Probably gonna get a lot of requests for a short version of the megathread, though admittedly less mega than Grow Err's and others'. Just saw that there was recent post in here so took a look. BTW I read on another forum that a guy has good results with a repeating 7/12 cycle. Says he gets the same yield and quality in 2 weeks less time than 12/12. The downside is an irregular timing which might make maintenance a little inconvenient.

There's another guy who does 8/12 but this guy got it down even farther with no apparent negative effects. Maybe with intense light 7 hours is like 12 hours of medium intensity light. Also it's the same intensity the whole photoperiod unlike outdoors where there are clouds and a slowly rising and setting sun. How much full intensity sunlight does an outdoor plant really get, maybe 6 hours.


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## Johnei (Jun 26, 2017)

(Light absorbtion diminishing returns after so much per day?? hmmmmmmm)
(;just me thinking out loud.)


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

BobCajun said:


> Just point everyone to the summary post you gave me a while ago. Probably gonna get a lot of requests for a short version of the megathread, though admittedly less mega than Grow Err's and others'. Just saw that there was recent post in here so took a look. BTW I read on another forum that a guy has good results with a repeating 7/12 cycle. Says he gets the same yield and quality in 2 weeks less time than 12/12. The downside is an irregular timing which might make maintenance a little inconvenient.
> 
> There's another guy who does 8/12 but this guy got it down even farther with no apparent negative effects. Maybe with intense light 7 hours is like 12 hours of medium intensity light. Also it's the same intensity the whole photoperiod unlike outdoors where there are clouds and a slowly rising and setting sun. How much full intensity sunlight does an outdoor plant really get, maybe 6 hours.


Welcome back bob.
Ya I'm not surprised others are getting good results using those cycles.
My unedumacated brain could never figure out a digital timer so I'm sol on any kind of irregular day cycle unfortunately or I'd have tried 8/12 a long time ago.
Shortening the actual entire day makes a lot of sense to me out side of the floating in and out of peak rates.


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## BobCajun (Jun 26, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Welcome back bob.
> Ya I'm not surprised others are getting good results using those cycles.
> My unedumacated brain could never figure out a digital timer so I'm sol on any kind of irregular day cycle unfortunately or I'd have tried 8/12 a long time ago.
> Shortening the actual entire day makes a lot of sense to me out side of the floating in and out of peak rates.


I just don't use it because it would be too inconvenient. I like a nice regular schedule. With an automated watering system it might be practical though. I have it so one chamber is on for 12 hours and then it goes off and the other comes on. That way less heat buildup, like half as much obviously. Probably be hard to have it like that with an irregular cycle. I find it much better with only one on at a time, or if I use 13 hours light they only overlap for an hour at a time. Maybe LESS than 12 would make denser buds, I don't know yet. Maybe too much light is a bad thing. For now I'm thinking more hours though.


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## Johnei (Jun 26, 2017)

Definitely harder to run a flip-flop setup with any of these irregular cycles, just thinkin about it now,
and I love me some low stress on ballast constant on flip flop action. Oh YEAH!
SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM!
lol


----------



## zoic (Jun 26, 2017)

Johnei said:


> LOL!!! ... hey man, I like to read your stuff.. don't say that.
> 
> LOL!!! that was funny.
> 
> ok maybe I will or maybe I won't, I'm just not gonna tell you. lolololol


It is an awesome read, "bet you can't read just once", LOL.
I have read it twice so far. Fascinating! I am going 10/14 in a few days.


----------



## Johnei (Jun 26, 2017)

zoic said:


> It is an awesome read, "bet you can't read just once", LOL.
> I have read it twice so far. Fascinating! I am going 10/14 in a few days.


Is that from day 1 flower or when? I'm so fascinated about all this.
editAddon-Fascinating x2  lol


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## zoic (Jun 26, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Who's really going to grow 4 plants bud?
> I bet everyone that runs 4 runs at least 8
> And once crops start coming in then buying stops and the prices crash.
> There will be 2-5million grow experts over night. We'll see these forums flooded.
> ...


I think you are seriously overestimating people. As long as the price is less than the LP's schwag, dealers should do fine. People will pay extra for assured quality and clean product. I think most folks do not want to be bothered growing, or even asking their doctor for a script to consume legally, IMHO


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## zoic (Jun 26, 2017)

Johnei said:


> Is that from day 1 flower or when? I'm so fascinated about all this.
> editAddon-Fascinating x2  lol


No, they are on day 24 now. I wanted a second light before pushing the envelope.


----------



## Johnei (Jun 26, 2017)

Gotya, ok thanks.


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## torontoke (Jun 26, 2017)

zoic said:


> I think you are seriously overestimating people. As long as the price is less than the LP's schwag, dealers should do fine. People will pay extra for assured quality and clean product. I think most folks do not want to be bothered growing, or even asking their doctor for a script to consume legally, IMHO


I was referring to legal rec.
Once no adult needs a drs permission or paperwork. I think research will really start.
All these years of prohibition are why people are so fixed in their conventional ways. 
If the rec price is set at $9 a gram then u can bet that most people will take a swing at running their max.
Much much mid grade weed will flood the market and while I agree top shelf bud will always have a small sliver of the market I seriously think that tiny fraction gets even smaller.


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## zoic (Jun 26, 2017)

I guess we wait and see. Top shelf is all I want to smoke so I will likely help keep that market alive at some point. For now I will just try to grow as much as I can.


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## torontoke (Jun 27, 2017)

Landos stash 
  
Rku
Gmt


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## torontoke (Jun 29, 2017)

Safe to say the male did his job.
Seed buying just stopped


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## GroErr (Jun 29, 2017)

Nice, It's a whole new world making your own seeds. For the most part now the only reason I buy new seeds is if I don't have specific genetics I want to breed 

Latest addition is Sand Storm by ACE. Only regs I've seen available with some Moroccan genetics. Cross between 2 100% indicas, Chitral Kush female x Moroccan male.


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## torontoke (Jun 29, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Nice, It's a whole new world making your own seeds. For the most part now the only reason I buy new seeds is if I don't have specific genetics I want to breed
> 
> Latest addition is Sand Storm by ACE. Only regs I've seen available with some Moroccan genetics. Cross between 2 100% indicas, Chitral Kush female x Moroccan male.


Ya I was just talking about this very thing to another member.
I go on instagram and ohhh and ahhh over all this stuff that we will never get access to up here and certainly not without a crazy pheno hunt. I've got a fairly good library of stuff to choose from and make crosses.
It's weird to be more looking forward to seeds then the bud.
Goes without saying if I have anything u would like to use in a cross just say the word sir.
Should be some nice crosses out of these too the rku/rks is super loud and gross smelling gmt and landos smell like straight kush fire


----------



## zoic (Jun 29, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Seed buying just stopped


Achieving self sufficiency is a great feeling, a feeling of freedom from having to depend on others. Congrats to you. Funny, the most interesting part of it all is going to be looking at all the pics of what you will be growing.


----------



## zoic (Jun 29, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Latest addition is Sand Storm by ACE. Only regs I've seen available with some Moroccan genetics. Cross between 2 100% indicas, Chitral Kush female x Moroccan male.


Nice. *That is so what I am looking for* that I went to order some. The first place was out of stock but I am going to keep looking. Thanks for the info GroErr.


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## GroErr (Jun 29, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ya I was just talking about this very thing to another member.
> I go on instagram and ohhh and ahhh over all this stuff that we will never get access to up here and certainly not without a crazy pheno hunt. I've got a fairly good library of stuff to choose from and make crosses.
> It's weird to be more looking forward to seeds then the bud.
> Goes without saying if I have anything u would like to use in a cross just say the word sir.
> Should be some nice crosses out of these too the rku/rks is super loud and gross smelling gmt and landos smell like straight kush fire


For sure, I find. myself getting more excited finding a killer looking/smelling male than females these days - lol When you get some of those crosses, we can exchange the best of the best phenos and cross those again, should be able to come up with some fire Canadian clone-only's that our US counterparts can drool over - lol


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## torontoke (Jun 30, 2017)

Well so much for an even canopy.
The rku and rkuxrks in the centre have pulled well ahead.
Need to do some rearranging in there later.

Landos stash looks like a fake velvet plant no joke. The seed pods are starting to open they've swollen so much.
Going to be some sweet indica doms out of these. Deep funky kush goodness.

I pinched a few of the buds early for shits n giggles and to my surprise those are easily the fattest buds in there.
Now whether they would have been the fattest anyway Is up for debate.


----------



## torontoke (Jun 30, 2017)

Bit the bullet to get the veg tent going.
Think that was the hurdle keeping me below my goal. 
So two more quantum boards are on their way. Hopefully a lil longer veg and an extra top or 5 will finally get me to a lb or 2.5g a watt.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 30, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Bit the bullet to get the veg tent going.
> Think that was the hurdle keeping me below my goal.
> So two more quantum boards are on their way. Hopefully a lil longer veg and an extra top or 5 will finally get me to a lb or 2.5g a watt.
> View attachment 3969711


Those g/w numbers are amazing.


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## torontoke (Jun 30, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Those g/w numbers are amazing.


Meh I find gram per watt the worst measurement tbh.
I think 75g a sq ft sounds better.
But I need to get there first either way


----------



## torontoke (Jun 30, 2017)

Taking off for a week ish so won't be much posted. Happy Canada day and 4th to u muricans.

Heres a pic of my pup convinced he's a person.
100lbs of ya come move me


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## ttystikk (Jun 30, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Taking off for a week ish so won't be much posted. Happy Canada day and 4th to u muricans.
> 
> Heres a pic of my pup convinced he's a person.
> 100lbs of ya come move me
> View attachment 3970143


Happy Canada Day!

Enjoy your vacay, I'll look forward to hearing about how you at your garden up to run in your absence- when you get back, of course.


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## yesum (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks for the awesome experiment and posting it here torontoke. I am currently at 9 hours 20 minutes on / 14 hours 40 minutes off flowering cycle. Doubt I will go lower. The gaslight cycle is too complex for me, going 14 hours on /10 off for veg next time. I want preflowers to show as soon as possible so I can sort the males.


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## zoic (Jul 1, 2017)

Happy Canada Day. Hope you all have a great weekend and I hope you enjoy your vaca torontoke. As far as moving a 100lb. dog, a pocket full of dog treats and he will follow you anywhere, LOL.


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## ttystikk (Jul 1, 2017)

yesum said:


> Thanks for the awesome experiment and posting it here torontoke. I am currently at 9 hours 20 minutes on / 14 hours 40 minutes off flowering cycle. Doubt I will go lower. The gaslight cycle is too complex for me, going 14 hours on /10 off for veg next time. I want preflowers to show as soon as possible so I can sort the males.


That will just flower them.


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## hillbill (Jul 1, 2017)

Many fruits and veggies can be legally grown where most people live but supermarkets and farmer markets do just fine. Price will bounce around for a while and settle at some level. You can also brew your own beer.


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## yesum (Jul 1, 2017)

Have you tried it or not? ^^ I know someone who used it and it did not flower them.


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## hillbill (Jul 1, 2017)

yesum said:


> Have you tried it or not? ^^ I know someone who used it and it did not flower them.


I'm not sure I said what you thought I said but I am a newbie at 10/14 but I am in.


----------



## Ghost717 (Jul 1, 2017)

Hi there fellas new grower here,,,i currently have a auto caramelicious 1 week old sprout on a 6/18 light schedule,,6 hours outdoors,,then 18 hours in my closet completely dark,,,reason im trying this method because i also read that outdoors 6 hours is enough light,,plus im in the caribbean ,,our tropical climate and burning sun should work great,,plant is looking great so far,,,any tips?


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## yesum (Jul 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> That will just flower them.



I assume you never tried it.


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## torontoke (Jul 1, 2017)

yesum said:


> Thanks for the awesome experiment and posting it here torontoke. I am currently at 9 hours 20 minutes on / 14 hours 40 minutes off flowering cycle. Doubt I will go lower. The gaslight cycle is too complex for me, going 14 hours on /10 off for veg next time. I want preflowers to show as soon as possible so I can sort the males.


The gaslight routine isn't very complex sir.
All it is is 12/12 but with one hour on in the middle of the off cycle.
Hence the nickname 12:1
It keeps the plants on the cusp of flowering usually except most strains will preflower eventually and sativa doms will not really like it.
Your idea of 14/10 will be very similar and I believe that's what ttystick meant.
Depending what strain u may need 14.5 or even 15 hours to keep them "vegging"
Genetics and strain have a lot to do with light cycles and what works for some may not work for others.
Good luck with it and please let us know how it goes im sincerely interested in any results.


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## yesum (Jul 1, 2017)

Ok, 15 it is then. These will be almost all heirloom sativas, so they flower less readily anyways. If you have not tried 'Relief Factor' you may want to. My Mom takes it for arthritis and I do sometimes. All natural no drugs. I know it will not rebuild your spine or whatever but does help with inflammation quite well.

The way you describe the gaslight makes it seem quite simple now I guess.


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## torontoke (Jul 1, 2017)

yesum said:


> Ok, 15 it is then. These will be almost all heirloom sativas, so they flower less readily anyways. If you have not tried 'Relief Factor' you may want to. My Mom takes it for arthritis and I do sometimes. All natural no drugs. I know it will not rebuild your spine or whatever but does help with inflammation quite well.
> 
> The way you describe the gaslight makes it seem quite simple now I guess.


Flowering is triggered by the length of dark period. The idea is to break the long period into two shorter periods so u set the light to come on for one hour in the middle of the dark period.
12on 5.5 off 1on 5.5off
It works and I still use it but it tends to work best on indica doms. Those happen to be my favourite 

Never heard of relief factor but I'll look into it for sure thanks.


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## torontoke (Jul 1, 2017)

Ghost717 said:


> Hi there fellas new grower here,,,i currently have a auto caramelicious 1 week old sprout on a 6/18 light schedule,,6 hours outdoors,,then 18 hours in my closet completely dark,,,reason im trying this method because i also read that outdoors 6 hours is enough light,,plus im in the caribbean ,,our tropical climate and burning sun should work great,,plant is looking great so far,,,any tips?


I couldn't begin to offer any advice given your radically different light source.
I wish I could use Caribbean sun.
My first run/experiment was only 6 hours indoor and from my experience it wasn't long enough.
Now that's not to say it didn't grow bud just not enough for me to recommend it as a viable option considering the amount of lost yield.
Your tropical climate hopefully shows you much better results. If it doesn't work then next time try 8. 
I'd love to hear how it goes either way.
Good luck and please keep us posted


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## zoic (Jul 2, 2017)

yesum said:


> Ok, 15 it is then. These will be almost all heirloom sativas, so they flower less readily anyways.


I am interested how this works out for you. I ran the 2nd grow at 16/8 instead of 18/6 with continuous temps average around 20C. I found they bushed out way more and had much tighter nodes. Every plant in Round 1 was a stringbean


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## ttystikk (Jul 2, 2017)

zoic said:


> I am interested how this works out for you. I ran the 2nd grow at 16/8 instead of 18/6 with continuous temps average around 20C. I found they bushed out way more and had much tighter nodes. Every plant in Round 1 was a stringbean


Surely this isn't the only change you made between runs?


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## Johnei (Jul 2, 2017)

zoic said:


> I am interested how this works out for you. I ran the 2nd grow at 16/8 instead of 18/6 with continuous temps average around 20C. I found they bushed out way more and had much tighter nodes. Every plant in Round 1 was a stringbean


I have grown at times for over 5 years straight using only 16/8, for cloning and for veg/mothers. This promotes more root growth over the tops. I have this book from a decade ago called Advanced Growing or some shit like that. It explains this in great detail and has 3 scientific tests done on growth at different hrs/day. if a strain will not flower under this low light hrs/day(because some might who knows), this works really well. I will be going back to this soon, forever.  flower trigger is quicker as well  The long night auxins are built up more. 
Just me man. I KNOW NOTHING!

(correction-Auxins are not built up more in the plant, because auxins get destroyed as soon as light hits, but the transportation pathways and mechanisms that control this auxin, are, you could say, used and weathered, and the plant gets used to this so pathways are ready for the flower trigger quicker, in my humble opinion this is what I believe.)


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## zoic (Jul 2, 2017)

No sir. Did some topping and a few were FIMmed. I put them in larger pots early so they would not get pot bound roots. Vegged them in the cooler basement and they are flowering in the tent under 2xMars300 lights. Round 3 is where all the new lights will take the grow to a new level.


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## Johnei (Jul 2, 2017)

I will take a picture of this book pages for you if you'd like.


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## hillbill (Jul 2, 2017)

Being unable to ever sit still, I have experimented from 24/0 to 15/9 and saw very similar results with 18 to 24 hours of light in veg so I do 18/6 and save any excess power. Some wanted more light than 15 hours at least with my setup.


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## ttystikk (Jul 2, 2017)

I've done 6 on and 6 off and it was okay, what surprised me was how well 6 on and 2 off did.


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## torontoke (Jul 2, 2017)

I've tried a few different alternate veg schedules myself.
I've had good luck with glr but with the leds we'll see how that changes things.

No leds needed for these
Apparently there's a bodhi fire brewing in the woods


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## Johnei (Jul 3, 2017)

The plant near the tree. NICE.. myco's  maybe tree will share. 
Amazing soil right there near that tree I bet. Good job. Good decision that spot.
I like it.

edit- and right on the slope from ground, and tree trunk where water will drop
love it bro.. perfect spot in my oponion, depending on light of course, which I think you have no problem with that I can see. Awesome. I'm jelouos..lol I need to go bushwacking.


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## torontoke (Jul 4, 2017)

Everyone is still alive and kickin
Starting to put on weight and stickiness 
Smells like something good is cooking


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## torontoke (Jul 4, 2017)

Johnei said:


> The plant near the tree. NICE.. myco's  maybe tree will share.
> Amazing soil right there near that tree I bet. Good job. Good decision that spot.
> I like it.
> 
> ...


A lot of planning went into those spots for all the reasons u listed.
Decades of oak and other trees season changes has left the ground with a perfect organic mix.
Added a lil bio char to the mix and these have been fairly self sufficient.
Bushwacking is a fun way to burn some time. Can be worthwhile too if u find good usable spots


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## BigNoobie (Jul 4, 2017)

Been reading a lot since your 6-18 experiment. Keep it going. Starting a micro myself just to see what it can do. 

Put me on the list for anything small indica you get in seeds if still available. Just gonna run bag seeds this first time.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 4, 2017)

BigNoobie said:


> Been reading a lot since your 6-18 experiment. Keep it going. Starting a micro myself just to see what it can do.
> 
> Put me on the list for anything small indica you get in seeds if still available. Just gonna run bag seeds this first time.


Thanks for stopping by.
I have added a couple hours now
Some folks still say less then 10hrs effects the potency but I still beg to differ.
Here's the bottom of a rku that is full of seed so supposedly even less frosty then an unseeded plant


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## torontoke (Jul 5, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Happy Canada Day!
> 
> Enjoy your vacay, I'll look forward to hearing about how you at your garden up to run in your absence- when you get back, of course.


Just saw this again.
The secret to 3-4days of trusting them on their own is hempy pots.
I'm using 3gal cat litter pails with a hole drilled 3" up from the bottom.
I typically water or feed every 3rd day because the pails dry out but it takes 4 or 5 days for them to get bone dry.
The built in mini res at the bottom allows a safe buffer for days away.


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## ThcGuy (Jul 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Just saw this again.
> The secret to 3-4days of trusting them on their own is hempy pots.
> I'm using 3gal cat litter pails with a hole drilled 3" up from the bottom.
> I typically water or feed every 3rd day because the pails dry out but it takes 4 or 5 days for them to get bone dry.
> The built in mini res at the bottom allows a safe buffer for days away.


I put mine in Hempy pots yesterday but I am nervous as hell! I hope I did it right as I'm going away to a wedding tomorrow and won't be back until Sunday.


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## torontoke (Jul 5, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> I put mine in Hempy pots yesterday but I am nervous as hell! I hope I did it right as I'm going away to a wedding tomorrow and won't be back until Sunday.


I think the only real problem I've had with hempys was when transplanting or up potting you really need to make sure the roots are well established so they stay together or else it will just come apart once removed from the pot.
I've even contemplated just sticking them in their final pots to avoid this but then the roots can't reach the res yet.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 5, 2017)




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## torontoke (Jul 6, 2017)




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## torontoke (Jul 7, 2017)




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## Johnei (Jul 7, 2017)

Woah take it easy on the food bro!  Looking mighty excellent!!!



{You just gave me idea.. I have nothing flowering this second, but next cycle, I'm going to do 11hrs on, 13hrs off.. that's more than enough light hours, and 13hr dark will have super auxin build up for long night flowering signals hold her in flowering hardcore. this is what i will do. So it was written, so it shall be done. LOL.. I'm even thinking of running whole cycle 10 on, 14 off.. why wouldn't it work, I see no reason. I think more night will grow the fat sticky icky, than more light hrs, especially when they sit in a room almost stagnant with 1000w HID beaming on their heads non stop, not like outdoors.. so even 10hrs light should be plenty I believe... hmmmm}


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## torontoke (Jul 7, 2017)

Johnei said:


> Woah take it easy on the food bro!  Looking mighty excellent!!!
> 
> 
> 
> {You just gave me idea.. I have nothing flowering this second, but next cycle, I'm going to do 11hrs on, 13hrs off.. that's more than enough light hours, and 13hr dark will have super auxin build up for long night flowering signals hold her in flowering hardcore. this is what i will do. So it was written, so it shall be done. LOL.. I'm even thinking of running whole cycle 10 on, 14 off.. why wouldn't it work, I see no reason. I think more night will grow the fat sticky icky, than more light hrs, especially when they sit in a room almost stagnant with 1000w HID beaming on their heads non stop, not like outdoors.. so even 10hrs light should be plenty I believe... hmmmm}


I've been taking it easy on the food.
Hence no tip burns or other visible deficiencies for the haters to knit pick about.

10 and 11 hrs both work so why wouldn't they for you?


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## torontoke (Jul 7, 2017)

Had to go back in the thread and was shocked that these are only on day 27
Some fat bitches already.
And still producing more n more trics daily.
Aren't these supposed to be slower growing now that they are full of seed @GroErr ?


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## GroErr (Jul 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Had to go back in the thread and was shocked that these are only on day 27
> Some fat bitches already.
> And still producing more n more trics daily.
> Aren't these supposed to be slower growing now that they are full of seed @GroErr ?


Hey, looking great in there so far. As far as seeded plants I find no real difference if I paint selective branches or buds. Only time I've seen a huge difference is if I open pollinate the whole plant. On open pollinated plants there's usually a noticeable difference in bud development and general growth pattern as they're focusing on growing out primarily seeds.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 7, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Hey, looking great in there so far. As far as seeded plants I find no real difference if I paint selective branches or buds. Only time I've seen a huge difference is if I open pollinate the whole plant. On open pollinated plants there's usually a noticeable difference in bud development and general growth pattern as they're focusing on growing out primarily seeds.


Exactly
That's what I thought
These were open pollinated.
Even the popcorn nugs on the bottom have 3 or 4 seeds visible yet these things are getting frostier by the day.
And size wise I'd say they are bigger too.
The buds I pinched early are easily the fattest too.
Hmmm
I'm pumped to run the offspring and see what comes out of them.


----------



## GroErr (Jul 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Exactly
> That's what I thought
> These were open pollinated.
> Even the popcorn nugs on the bottom have 3 or 4 seeds visible yet these things are getting frostier by the day.
> ...


You complaining? lol That is a bit strange for open pollinated plants. I typically open pollinate my clones (not from seed) and see a significant difference in production compared to just flowering them out or hitting a branch. Pollen is ready over here too, will be hitting a few branches on my Blue Harley and Blue Pyramid over the weekend


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## torontoke (Jul 7, 2017)

GroErr said:


> You complaining? lol That is a bit strange for open pollinated plants. I typically open pollinate my clones (not from seed) and see a significant difference in production compared to just flowering them out or hitting a branch. Pollen is ready over here too, will be hitting a few branches on my Blue Harley and Blue Pyramid over the weekend


Lol u should know me better by now
No room for complaining in my life 
I'm stoked 
These should be killer if they grow like these minus the seed.

Don't tell me about any more crosses I already wanna try them all.
And I've officially got a sickness.
Ordered two more packs last night and a freebie because the guy had a pack of those dank Sinatra f2's.
So 4 more packs on the way plus the hundreds from these plants.
Talk about a pheno hunt lol
I'm gonna need more tents


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## GroErr (Jul 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol u should know me better by now
> No room for complaining in my life
> I'm stoked
> These should be killer if they grow like these minus the seed.
> ...


Yeah, getting a decent crop + seeds is a bonus. Most of what I smoke/vape is left over from seeded buds, once I crop out the seeds it's already chopped up. Have a bunch of small jars around ready to roll or stick in a pipe. If I have too much of it around it goes into the hash bin, all of it gets used so I don't see any downside to seeded bud


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## torontoke (Jul 7, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Yeah, getting a decent crop + seeds is a bonus. Most of what I smoke/vape is left over from seeded buds, once I crop out the seeds it's already chopped up. Have a bunch of small jars around ready to roll or stick in a pipe. If I have too much of it around it goes into the hash bin, all of it gets used so I don't see any downside to seeded bud


Me either but that's because we don't sell it I guess.
Not gonna lie I'm giddy today
Smoked a few already and man I'm in a good mood. been spending money like it's my job but what a fun job.


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## GroErr (Jul 7, 2017)

Yeah, no worries about seeded bud when you're not concerned about selling it. Sounds like a good day, some tokes and spending money, nice! I'm the last man standing today at work so no goodies for me yet. I will close up shop by 4:20 though


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## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Yeah, no worries about seeded bud when you're not concerned about selling it. Sounds like a good day, some tokes and spending money, nice! I'm the last man standing today at work so no goodies for me yet. I will close up shop by 4:20 though


I think a mandatory safety meeting is in order.


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## torontoke (Jul 7, 2017)

I'd require a meeting hourly if I ever had to get another job.


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## GroErr (Jul 7, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I think a mandatory safety meeting is in order.





torontoke said:


> I'd require a meeting hourly if I ever had to get another job.


Lol, short meeting, just ensure there are no gas leaks before firing up  You smell gas? No. Meeting over, light her up!


----------



## torontoke (Jul 7, 2017)

What is it u do again g?


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## GroErr (Jul 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> What is it u do again g?


Network/systems security, try and prevent corporations from getting hacked, clean up if they do get hit. Like those recent attacks over in Europe that made it into the media, totally preventable with a patch that should have been installed across all affected systems back in March #$%!


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Network/systems security, try and prevent corporations from getting hacked, clean up if they do get hit. Like those recent attacks over in Europe that made it into the media, totally preventable with a patch that should have been installed across all affected systems back in March #$%!


I know that my own personal computer hasn't been patched, how do I go about doing it?


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## Johnei (Jul 7, 2017)

Don't use windows.
Use Linux.
..is the only 'patch'
LOL
(pig snorting laugh goes after that)


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## zoic (Jul 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Me either but that's because we don't sell it I guess.


Well some people do and that is where I got my bag seed. I only kept the ones from top drawer bud, so I do not see how male or female would have much difference in potency.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 7, 2017)

zoic said:


> Well some people do and that is where I got my bag seed. I only kept the ones from top drawer bud, so I do not see how male or female would have much difference in potency.


I'm not so sure about that.
Most bagseed is a result of unstable commercial feminized seeds and some people leaving plants in flower to long so they self seed in hopes of reproducing.
Potency isn't necessarily effected imo and males are in a class of their own.


----------



## GroErr (Jul 7, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I know that my own personal computer hasn't been patched, how do I go about doing it?


Either automatic updates if you have that on or you can download them off Microsoft's site in the support/downloads section. Those particular vulnerabilities were worse on older versions of Windows. If your computer is connected to the internet (what isn't now) you have to maintain somewhat current with supported versions that get supported patches and keep up with them. Otherwise it's the wild west, or more recently the wild east  You're safer on a tablet these days.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 7, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Either automatic updates if you have that on or you can download them off Microsoft's site in the support/downloads section. Those particular vulnerabilities were worse on older versions of Windows. If your computer is connected to the internet (what isn't now) you have to maintain somewhat current with supported versions that get supported patches and keep up with them. Otherwise it's the wild west, or more recently the wild east  You're safer on a tablet these days.


My computer only gets internet access through my phone.

Where do I go to find the updates?


----------



## zoic (Jul 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> My computer only gets internet access through my phone.


That is just how you connect to the Internet. Your phone creates a wireless hot spot and tethers the computer to the Internet through the phone. You can go to https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/ to get updates or use the Windows update wizard in your Control Panel. Feel free to message me if you need more help.


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## zoic (Jul 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm not so sure about that.
> Most bagseed is a result of unstable commercial feminized seeds and some people leaving plants in flower to long so they self seed in hopes of reproducing.
> Potency isn't necessarily effected imo and males are in a class of their own.


Understood. I was thinking more along the lines of oops, someone did not get that male out the grow soon enough and some of the flowers were pollinated accidentally. Really what I am trying to say is that bud with seeds in it can still work quite well. The Bolivian we used to smoke in the 70's was almost as good as the Maiu Wowie. That stuff had elephant seeds, about 3 times the average seed size, but it still worked great. I admit I still have a lot to learn about gender, crosses and various other things. At least I know I am in a good place to learn all this stuff.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 8, 2017)

zoic said:


> Understood. I was thinking more along the lines of oops, someone did not get that male out the grow soon enough and some of the flowers were pollinated accidentally. Really what I am trying to say is that bud with seeds in it can still work quite well. The Bolivian we used to smoke in the 70's was almost as good as the Maiu Wowie. That stuff had elephant seeds, about 3 times the average seed size, but it still worked great. I admit I still have a lot to learn about gender, crosses and various other things. At least I know I am in a good place to learn all this stuff.


As u can see in the pics of my current plants. If a male is left to open pollinate there's more than a few seeds on the bottoms. Every single bud is loaded with seed. I'd say out of an oz of this bud there should be hundreds of seeds not 5 or 6
Learning is one of my favourite things to do but as a stoner it's remembering that gets tough.


----------



## zoic (Jul 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Learning is one of my favourite things to do but as a stoner it's remembering that gets tough.


Me too. Being stoned does not seem to matter since that is the state my brain is most used to. My brain seems to be a sponge, sometimes I remember things I did not even realize I knew. Quite often the remembering comes too late to help, but it is still cool that I remember. Now if I were to take 2 muscle relaxants instead of one then I doubt I would remember what day it is. 

I can understand why you are so excited with this crop. You are going to have seeds for life and some cool new strains to pheno hunt from. I really want to try this someday but I want to wait until I have a high CBD strain to include in the genetics.


----------



## GroErr (Jul 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> My computer only gets internet access through my phone.
> 
> Where do I go to find the updates?


Depends on your operating system, the list below lists the patches that included the SMB vulnerability (MS17-010) under the various versions affected. Windows 7 is the most common but pretty well every other version except Windows 10 were affected by it.

List by OS:
http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=KB4012215

More details on the issue/ransomware that hit recently:
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/mmpc/2017/05/12/wannacrypt-ransomware-worm-targets-out-of-date-systems/


----------



## torontoke (Jul 8, 2017)

zoic said:


> Me too. Being stoned does not seem to matter since that is the state my brain is most used to. My brain seems to be a sponge, sometimes I remember things I did not even realize I knew. Quite often the remembering comes too late to help, but it is still cool that I remember. Now if I were to take 2 muscle relaxants instead of one then I doubt I would remember what day it is.
> 
> I can understand why you are so excited with this crop. You are going to have seeds for life and some cool new strains to pheno hunt from. I really want to try this someday but I want to wait until I have a high CBD strain to include in the genetics.


I really wish there were tons more research out there on cbds.
It's the Trojan horse of cannabis. Drs and legalization supporters love to bring it up but not that much is actually documented.
I've spent many a night reading article after article of nothing more then opinions and speculation. Between my broken down ass and my gf with two types of arthritis an uncle with ms we've tried a lot of different things over the years and while I'd agree that cbd can be helpful without an equal amount of thc it's almost unsmokable imo.
I'm convinced that the garlicy onion cat piss terp is cbd and it's not my cup of tea.
Would love to come across a heavy cbd heavy thc strain. Something like 15% of both would check all the boxes cept taste maybe.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 8, 2017)

Spent a few hours talking with a good friend from back in the day.
He used to be a commercial grower and went to prison a few times because of it.
Apparently he was diagnosed with cancer while inside and was put on oils and all sorts of things by his oncologist.
He was fascinated by my experiment and surprised by how much my grow methods had changed.
Anyway he brought up an excellent idea but I'm not sure how to even go about it.
He said he's been spending a lot of time resting in bed and reading more and more about crowd funding and group efforts.
He thinks I should start a go fund me or some other platform for light cycle and other environmental research.
What do u guys think? Is it possible to get some crowd funded money to build a test facility or buy one or is he way off?
I could spend the rest of my life running every cycle I could think of and perhaps time cycle manipulating genetics?

For sure I would need help writing up such a business idea and probably even more putting it into motion but I'm definitely intrigued with the idea.


----------



## GroErr (Jul 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I really wish there were tons more research out there on cbds.
> It's the Trojan horse of cannabis. Drs and legalization supporters love to bring it up but not that much is actually documented.
> I've spent many a night reading article after article of nothing more then opinions and speculation. Between my broken down ass and my gf with two types of arthritis an uncle with ms we've tried a lot of different things over the years and while I'd agree that cbd can be helpful without an equal amount of thc it's almost unsmokable imo.
> I'm convinced that the garlicy onion cat piss terp is cbd and it's not my cup of tea.
> Would love to come across a heavy cbd heavy thc strain. Something like 15% of both would check all the boxes cept taste maybe.


Some good points on the CBD strains, when I ran my Harlequin I had 4 phenos, 3 were cast-piss to the point they smelled like an old cat littler box that hadn't been cleaned in weeks. Until we have some solid research on the combinations of cannabinoids that help specific ailments, my take is to mix them up (strains) as much as possible, sift is an easy way to do that for medibles.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 8, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Some good points on the CBD strains, when I ran my Harlequin I had 4 phenos, 3 were cast-piss to the point they smelled like an old cat littler box that hadn't been cleaned in weeks. Until we have some solid research on the combinations of cannabinoids that help specific ailments, my take is to mix them up (strains) as much as possible, sift is an easy way to do that for medibles.


I've tried bud from lps dispensaries home grows and random street meds all claiming high cbd. The ammonia terp I'll call it is noticeable in most of em. Can't be coincidence. My gf and old ladies seem to get more relief from cbd while men usually comment it's nice but missing a lil kick.
This is the data that someone should be compiling and doing the work of researching. Imo


----------



## torontoke (Jul 8, 2017)




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## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Spent a few hours talking with a good friend from back in the day.
> He used to be a commercial grower and went to prison a few times because of it.
> Apparently he was diagnosed with cancer while inside and was put on oils and all sorts of things by his oncologist.
> He was fascinated by my experiment and surprised by how much my grow methods had changed.
> ...


The word Cannabis will get you kicked off the crowdfunding sites, unfortunately.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2017)

zoic said:


> That is just how you connect to the Internet. Your phone creates a wireless hot spot and tethers the computer to the Internet through the phone. You can go to https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/ to get updates or use the Windows update wizard in your Control Panel. Feel free to message me if you need more help.


I'm aware of how my PC connects to the internet, the point was that I'm reasonably sure it hasn't been affected yet.

I'll look up those patches next time I fire it up and tether.

Bottom line is that I do almost all of my computing and web surfing with my Note 4, and it works fine.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The word Cannabis will get you kicked off the crowdfunding sites, unfortunately.


Ya that's what I thought.
Year ago I tried starting one for the off grid patient medicating resort but they wouldn't even post it.
My friend said he's seen a few mj start ups getting funding and if it didn't work and I had a good enough write up I could hit instagram and where ever else to petition fellow growers perhaps.
Idk
Maybe just more stoned dreamer talk


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ya that's what I thought.
> Year ago I tried starting one for the off grid patient medicating resort but they wouldn't even post it.
> My friend said he's seen a few mj start ups getting funding and if it didn't work and I had a good enough write up I could hit instagram and where ever else to petition fellow growers perhaps.
> Idk
> Maybe just more stoned dreamer talk


I think you and I need to get together and try to set up a research fund, both of us are doing similar activities.


----------



## zoic (Jul 8, 2017)

Holy hannah this is right up my alley. My plan is to experiment with thc/cbd and keep meticulous notes of my observations. I have had CBD caps from a dispensary and a few CBD strains from Tweed. Beyond a shadow of a doubt it helped me with fatigue and pain from spasticity. Ultimately I want to create my own CBD caps once I fine tune the dosage. A friend of mine just told me he had to quit smoking due to breathing issues. He wants me to make edibles for him from his ingredients because he tried one of mine and was pleased how well it worked for him.

Loop me in if you are going to move forward. I have a lot of experience from setting up my own business and I know some people who like to invest money in various things. The fact that is cannabis related will not be an issue for them.


----------



## zoic (Jul 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I really wish there were tons more research out there on cbds.
> It's the Trojan horse of cannabis. Drs and legalization supporters love to bring it up but not that much is actually documented.
> I've spent many a night reading article after article of nothing more then opinions and speculation. Between my broken down ass and my gf with two types of arthritis an uncle with ms we've tried a lot of different things over the years and while I'd agree that cbd can be helpful without an equal amount of thc it's almost unsmokable imo.
> I'm convinced that the garlicy onion cat piss terp is cbd and it's not my cup of tea.
> Would love to come across a heavy cbd heavy thc strain. Something like 15% of both would check all the boxes cept taste maybe.


Well if you can find seeds for Good Medicine is supposed to be a 1:1 at around 15%.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 8, 2017)

zoic said:


> Well if you can find seeds for Good Medicine is supposed to be a 1:1 at around 15%.


I know where to find those.
I'll see if I can get my hands on a pack for ya. Barefoot doctor is his other high cbd strain. See what I can do.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I think you and I need to get together and try to set up a research fund, both of us are doing similar activities.


I'm all ears.
And open to suggestions as usual.
What did u have in mind.
Pm me if you'd rather not talk on here


----------



## torontoke (Jul 8, 2017)

Just doing quick google searches and there may be some meat on this bone @ttystikk 
https://mjbizdaily.com/crowdfunding-opportunities-limits/


----------



## torontoke (Jul 9, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Jul 10, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Jul 10, 2017)

Day 35 for those skinny bitches 
Things are already smelling like success is in the air. Or maybe a contact high either way happy days.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 10, 2017)

Trying a reveg in the cabinet next run.
Curious what the turn around to flower will look like time and budsize wise.
Saved the grandpasbreath and more cowbell from last run and a space monkey that is most likely not gonna make it.
They have turned into super bushes with mostly single leafs so should be interesting.

Also got a few nice lucky charm and roadkill skunk bonsai plants that will get roadkill unicorn pollen and or gmt pollen.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 11, 2017)

Well it's a beautiful sunny afternoon.
Sitting on my back deck enjoying the sound of crickets and low volume reggae.
Sweet scent of elfinstone fills the air while I think about all the details of my past grows and why this last crop yielded less then the last with 2 fewer plants.
Then I remember something and think nooo. So I go back and check.
My first run with the pcb lights was my best gperwatt at 2.2 with 6 plants. Only 150watts.
I've since turned the dimmer up thinking more equals more like everyone else and even with two more plants I got less.

I'm sure it's too simple of a solution yet this is the type of thing that will drive me insane thinking about.
Strain could have played a role.
Veg time could also even tho plants were roughly the same size.
But maybe sometimes less is more?

Time to turn the brain off
More cowbell it is


----------



## GroErr (Jul 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Well it's a beautiful sunny afternoon.
> Sitting on my back deck enjoying the sound of crickets and low volume reggae.
> Sweet scent of elfinstone fills the air while I think about all the details of my past grows and why this last crop yielded less then the last with 2 fewer plants.
> Then I remember something and think nooo. So I go back and check.
> ...


Lol, that's the kind of shit that keeps me up at night sometimes. Not sure it's applicable since running seeds can yield so inconsistently from one strain/pheno to the other. You'd almost have to run it twice with clones dimmed/full-on to establish whether it was light intensity that made the difference. only thing I noticed when stretching w/sq. ft. down to as low as 22w was longer finish times, other than that yields were quite good.


----------



## ThcGuy (Jul 11, 2017)

Hey torontoke, your grams per watt are among the best but out of curiosity what are you getting as far as grams per square foot?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 11, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, that's the kind of shit that keeps me up at night sometimes. Not sure it's applicable since running seeds can yield so inconsistently from one strain/pheno to the other. You'd almost have to run it twice with clones dimmed/full-on to establish whether it was light intensity that made the difference. only thing I noticed when stretching w/sq. ft. down to as low as 22w was longer finish times, other than that yields were quite good.


Oh it's driving me crazy.
I've got a plan in the works to finally be able to do all the necessary leg work to have the data to answer all these questions.
I'm getting more and more motivated lately.
It's kinda nice to feel the ol fires burning again.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 11, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Hey torontoke, your grams per watt are among the best but out of curiosity what are you getting as far as grams per square foot?


My grams per watt is no where near the best.
It's a terrible way to assess a grow I only use it for benchmarking.
My cabinet is roughly 2x3x5
My best run so far was only 350grams
So 59g a sq ft or 11grams per sq if u count the vertical height


----------



## ThcGuy (Jul 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> My grams per watt is no where near the best.
> It's a terrible way to assess a grow I only use it for benchmarking.
> My cabinet is roughly 2x3x5
> My best run so far was only 350grams
> So 59g a sq ft or 11grams per sq if u count the vertical height


Anything over 2 gram/watt is great in my books! I know the SOG guys are killing it but if they ever get caught.....

I just wanted to know grams per square foot because I'm trying to optimize space ( so many strains to grow so little time) not energy right now so the grams per watt thing doesn't really work for me. I'm going to have to try some Cobs in my next tent I think.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 11, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Anything over 2 gram/watt is great in my books! I know the SOG guys are killing it but if they ever get caught.....
> 
> I just wanted to know grams per square foot because I'm trying to optimize space ( so many strains to grow so little time) not energy right now so the grams per watt thing doesn't really work for me. I'm going to have to try some Cobs in my next tent I think.


If you want to maximize grams per square foot of floorspace, grow vertically.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 11, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Anything over 2 gram/watt is great in my books! I know the SOG guys are killing it but if they ever get caught.....
> 
> I just wanted to know grams per square foot because I'm trying to optimize space ( so many strains to grow so little time) not energy right now so the grams per watt thing doesn't really work for me. I'm going to have to try some Cobs in my next tent I think.


I was going to try cobs but they are expensive. Least for the amount of them I would have needed. Whatever works for you tho.
Does grams per sq ft count the vertical feet or just the floor space?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I was going to try cobs but they are expensive. Least for the amount of them I would have needed. Whatever works for you tho.
> Does grams per sq ft count the vertical feet or just the floor space?


I beat you to it! Neener neener lol


----------



## ThcGuy (Jul 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I was going to try cobs but they are expensive. Least for the amount of them I would have needed. Whatever works for you tho.
> Does grams per sq ft count the vertical feet or just the floor space?


Lol, I thought you were Cobs. My bad, I read too many grow journals.

As for grams per square foot, I've always just used floor space.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 11, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I beat you to it! Neener neener lol


Great minds or something


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 11, 2017)

Ghost717 said:


> Hi there fellas new grower here,,,i currently have a auto caramelicious 1 week old sprout on a 6/18 light schedule,,6 hours outdoors,,then 18 hours in my closet completely dark,,,reason im trying this method because i also read that outdoors 6 hours is enough light,,plus im in the caribbean ,,our tropical climate and burning sun should work great,,plant is looking great so far,,,any tips?


It will not work for autos. It will but yield will suffer greatly.

I've run numerous light cycles on autos. Even 12/12 for a seed run yielded a few joints. The same seeds under 19/5 got 3 foot tall.


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## torontoke (Jul 11, 2017)

Rku x rks
Is a sweet skunky thing Sticky too 
Gmt


----------



## torontoke (Jul 11, 2017)

Crank it up


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## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)

Landos stash 
 
Rku f2 "peach cobbler"


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)

Decided to stuff the two reveg plants In today. Curious what these are going to look like once they start budding again.

Space monkey

Grandpasbreath f2


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)

Decided to cut a few clones off the grandpasbreath just out of curiousity more then anything.
See if they are hard to root and what they grow like.
Didn't cut the others since I have more space monkey and more cowbell in the tent.
Trying some aggressive training on the lucky charms and false teeth.
Going to try to get them as busy as possible pre flip. 
That's one thing I've noticed with the pcb led. Not much stretch at all.
Thought it was strain or pot size but the roots are never grown right to the bottom of the pots and I've grown plenty saty doms and even they didn't go over 36"

Also decided I'm only going to hit a few lowers on the lucky charms and space monkey to make crosses.
I think that will be enough crosses to play with and do some pheno hunting.


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 12, 2017)

Ok, this concept has my attention!
Want to run an idea by you adventurous experimenting types - you are running an 8 hour lights on period....
What if those of use who run a typical 1000W hps hung over a 5x5 were to hang say 2 4ft T5's (one on each side of the hood), run the T5's for 4 hours at lights on and then have the 1000W come on for the next 8 hours with the T5's dropping off a half hour or so after the big lights come on. This would effectively keep us in a 12 hour cycle and greatly cut energy use.
Any thoughts on what the outcome might be from those who have been doing these light cycle experiments?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)

Interesting idea
Couple years ago I had a similar idea.
Back when I agreed with everyone that indoor growers were supposed to mimic the sun. I thought maybe if u had the light on a timed programable dimmer that started out at 30-40% and slowly intensifies til ur at peak 5hrs in then decrease back down.
Didn't have the desire to try it that badly obviously but I think it would work better than expected.
Now my guess on your idea @OneHitDone is that it would work with results similar to mine. A couple t5's aren't going to do much over a 5x5 so I'm not sure they would be worth even firing up.
That being said it's a great idea that I'd love to see someone try, perhaps with a few more t5's to help get things kickstarted.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt though this is simply my guess as to what would happen. Results may vary


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Interesting idea
> Couple years ago I had a similar idea.
> Back when I agreed with everyone that indoor growers were supposed to mimic the sun. I thought maybe if u had the light on a timed programable dimmer that started out at 30-40% and slowly intensifies til ur at peak 5hrs in then decrease back down.
> Didn't have the desire to try it that badly obviously but I think it would work better than expected.
> ...


Some 15 years ago this guy named Heath Robinson ran a setup with hanging bare 600W HPS. He ran one on one side of the plant for 6 hours, then another on the other side of the plant for 6 hours. Said he got serious weight with a lot less light per gram of yield.

I'm still thinking about it.


----------



## mr. childs (Jul 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Landos stash
> View attachment 3976561
> Rku f2 "peach cobbler"
> View attachment 3976562
> View attachment 3976563


...peach cobbler... damn... RESPECT for finding that pheno...


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Some 15 years ago this guy named Heath Robinson ran a setup with hanging bare 600W HPS. He ran one on one side of the plant for 6 hours, then another on the other side of the plant for 6 hours. Said he got serious weight with a lot less light per gram of yield.
> 
> I'm still thinking about it.


I remember it well sir 
Ran a similar pvc tube setup on overgrow and thcfarmer years ago.
Wasn't interested in saving energy back then so I ignored a lot of things I wish I'd taken better note of.


mr. childs said:


> ...peach cobbler... damn... RESPECT for finding that pheno...


Honestly don't know if any such pheno is known of but this thing smells exactly like peach cobbler. Stem rubs followed by a smile everytime.
And the best part is it's full of seed


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)

Not sure what exactly these seeds will be tho and I'm way to high to go check up on it lol the rku was an f2 so a male and femal f2
Just makes an ibl rkuf2 right?
Should be a good chance of finding this pheno again I hope


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I remember it well sir
> Ran a similar pvc tube setup on overgrow and thcfarmer years ago.
> Wasn't interested in saving energy back then so I ignored a lot of things I wish I'd taken better note of.
> 
> ...


Lol you know that dates us, right?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Lol you know that dates us, right?


Ya I've been on and off pot forums since well the internet started really.
My kids can't even remember life pre internet so it's been a while indeed.


----------



## Stealthstyle (Jul 12, 2017)

Heath was one grower i always looked forward to reading from. 2 pounds a plant etc indoors. True green thumb with a lot of hydro and engineering skills.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)

Stealthstyle said:


> Heath was one grower i always looked forward to reading from. 2 pounds a plant etc indoors. True green thumb with a lot of hydro and engineering skills.


2 lbs? I remember 60-75oz plants
Monsters that needed every branch tied to the ceiling. Those were the days.
Now we get forum trolls making penis jokes and sales reps arguing over just about everything.


----------



## OneHitDone (Jul 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Interesting idea
> Couple years ago I had a similar idea.
> Back when I agreed with everyone that indoor growers were supposed to mimic the sun. I thought maybe if u had the light on a timed programable dimmer that started out at 30-40% and slowly intensifies til ur at peak 5hrs in then decrease back down.
> Didn't have the desire to try it that badly obviously but I think it would work better than expected.
> ...


I have read quite a bit of your journal but can you give me the quick 1 liner as to the results and if 8 hour lighting cycles are producing results or not? 

My idea was to use the T5's just for "waking" the plants up and shifting them into photosynthesis mode, not actually do much photosynthesizing with the T5's.
I could be talking out my ass but all this light cycle talk has me excited lol



ttystikk said:


> Some 15 years ago this guy named Heath Robinson ran a setup with hanging bare 600W HPS. He ran one on one side of the plant for 6 hours, then another on the other side of the plant for 6 hours. Said he got serious weight with a lot less light per gram of yield.
> 
> I'm still thinking about it.


This would still keep the plant in a 12 hour photoperiod hormonally right?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)

OneHitDone said:


> I have read quite a bit of your journal but can you give me the quick 1 liner as to the results and if 8 hour lighting cycles are producing results or not?
> 
> My idea was to use the T5's just for "waking" the plants up and shifting them into photosynthesis mode, not actually do much photosynthesizing with the T5's.
> I could be talking out my ass but all this light cycle talk has me excited lol
> ...


I've never done a clone for clone comparison between 12/12 and 8/16 but I manage to grow enough to keep my jars full. 
Hopefully not to far down the road I'll have the room to do a few side by side grows to have actual hard numbers.

Your idea of using the t5's to initiate the process makes sense and would most likely help a lil bit. I forget sometimes that my plants are usually preflowered and sexed using the gaslight routine for veg.

As for heaths 6 and 6 while technically is still 12 hours it's only 12hours combined as opposed to 12 on each light.
It would have the same moving sun effect I mentioned with my idea.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 12, 2017)




----------



## ttystikk (Jul 12, 2017)

Stealthstyle said:


> Heath was one grower i always looked forward to reading from. 2 pounds a plant etc indoors. True green thumb with a lot of hydro and engineering skills.


He was my hero.


----------



## GroErr (Jul 13, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Not sure what exactly these seeds will be tho and I'm way to high to go check up on it lol the rku was an f2 so a male and femal f2
> Just makes an ibl rkuf2 right?
> Should be a good chance of finding this pheno again I hope


Male F2 and Female F2 from same strain & batch of seeds = F3
Male F2 and Female F2 from 2 different strains = F1


----------



## torontoke (Jul 13, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Male F2 and Female F2 from same strain & batch of seeds = F3
> Male F2 and Female F2 from 2 different strains = F1


Thanks g
I think I may have found that special cut u mentioned awhile back.
Trying to up the chances of creating as stable a version of these as possible


----------



## GroErr (Jul 13, 2017)

Nice, always nice to grab a special pheno, imo they exist in every cross, it's just a matter of finding Waldo  

My approach is to try multiple cross types and do some hunting for the best/closest representation of what I'm after. I've been crossing and back-crossing the Blue Ripper and Blue Harley line to see if I can lock down some specific traits. Just found the F2 father that will make the F3's in my Blue Ripper's, took 2 years and ~25+ males (culled) to find this one. On the other hand, I found 2x F2 females worthy of keeping 2 years ago in the first batch of F2's, one of those represents what I envision as Blue Ripper and the mother for the F3's. I'll back-cross and up-cross the F3's and carry on until I can comfortably say it's stable/consistent. No shortcuts really, other than maybe S1's, not my cup of tea though and no guarantee there either.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 13, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Nice, always nice to grab a special pheno, imo they exist in every cross, it's just a matter of finding Waldo
> 
> My approach is to try multiple cross types and do some hunting for the best/closest representation of what I'm after. I've been crossing and back-crossing the Blue Ripper and Blue Harley line to see if I can lock down some specific traits. Just found the F2 father that will make the F3's in my Blue Ripper's, took 2 years and ~25+ males (culled) to find this one. On the other hand, I found 2x F2 females worthy of keeping 2 years ago in the first batch of F2's, one of those represents what I envision as Blue Ripper and the mother for the F3's. I'll back-cross and up-cross the F3's and carry on until I can comfortably say it's stable/consistent. No shortcuts really, other than maybe S1's, not my cup of tea though and no guarantee there either.


Well I feel even more lucky then.
This was the nicest looking female out of 4 and I chose her for structure and stem size over smell. But now the smell is intense.
I only had two males and I went for the bigger male with more flowers. As long as there is a chance of finding more of this girl I'll hit the progeny with dads left overs and hope to get a steady stream of those "peace wobblers" 

That blue ripper sounds so nice.
I've loved that jtr since I first tried it and Chernobyl. 
If I even do another seed run after these I'll be searching for both.


----------



## GroErr (Jul 13, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Well I feel even more lucky then.
> This was the nicest looking female out of 4 and I chose her for structure and stem size over smell. But now the smell is intense.
> I only had two males and I went for the bigger male with more flowers. As long as there is a chance of finding more of this girl I'll hit the progeny with dads left overs and hope to get a steady stream of those "peace wobblers"
> 
> ...


JTR turned out to be a great cross. I have another pack of JTR that I bought strictly to see if I could find a nice male. Some good genes in that TGA gear, and one of the few who haven't crossed over to the dark side (fems or auto-only seeds).


----------



## torontoke (Jul 13, 2017)

Just what I needed more seeds


----------



## ThcGuy (Jul 13, 2017)

You planning on becoming a breeder? lol.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 13, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> You planning on becoming a breeder? lol.


Only for myself and a few others.
No intention of selling seeds but I've already given away plenty.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 13, 2017)

Plus I was really only after that blue pack but had to order something to get em.
Then the buy two get one and bam 4 more lol


----------



## GroErr (Jul 13, 2017)

Nice, there is no such thing as having enough genetics to mix up


----------



## torontoke (Jul 13, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Nice, there is no such thing as having enough genetics to mix up


You know me sir
Stockpiling for when I leave civilization.
Then if I get sick of my collection and their bagillion crosses I'll trade stuff with the other kids.


----------



## Stealthstyle (Jul 14, 2017)

Just got a delivery from the tude, boy did i get a lot of freebies!


----------



## torontoke (Jul 14, 2017)

Stealthstyle said:


> Just got a delivery from the tude, boy did i get a lot of freebies!


That's awesome
Extra special if they are actually stuff you want to grow.
I ordered from their other bank once and got like 10 freebies but gave em all away.
I'd have preferred one I wanted but who can complain about freebies


----------



## WindyCityKush (Jul 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3977593 Just what I needed more seeds


Space monkey, ds f2, Field trip, and hindu hashplant? nice scoop. you get these from shoe? 
also, i might have skipped over it, but how long did the space monkey go for you and how does she smoke for you ?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 14, 2017)

WindyCityKush said:


> Space monkey, ds f2, Field trip, and hindu hashplant? nice scoop. you get these from shoe?
> also, i might have skipped over it, but how long did the space monkey go for you and how does she smoke for you ?


Yes sir
And thanks for all the likes btw
Shoe had the only pack of ds I could find.
I gifted half my pack to a fellow member and wanted more cus I'm to stubborn to take clones. 
The space monkey was quick I believe it was 46 days from flip. 
I loved the smoke from it enough to buy a second pack. Has a slight minty Chem taste that reminded my of high school but the high is deep. Starts out right behind the eyes and slowly numbs the body.
Looking forward to seeing how much better I can grow it the second time, I will make sure they are much bigger prior to flip.


Thanks for popping in windy


----------



## torontoke (Jul 14, 2017)

Ok so I went back to when these were flipped and I'm on day 41 so this will definitely be the last week for these ladies.
Seem to be packing and stacking pretty well for seeded plants.
Heres a last group shot before they get chopped sometime within the week.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> That's awesome
> Extra special if they are actually stuff you want to grow.
> I ordered from their other bank once and got like 10 freebies but gave em all away.
> I'd have preferred one I wanted but who can complain about freebies


Oh, people will complain about anything.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Oh, people will complain about anything.


Ain't that the truth.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 16, 2017)

And this is why I don't do auto flowers lol 
More cowbell 
Tiger mountain


----------



## torontoke (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Jul 16, 2017)

Landos stash
 
Rkuxrks 
   
Lucky charms training


----------



## ThcGuy (Jul 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> And this is why I don't do auto flowers lol


I had poor results with a few Autos as well and I won't use them again. I also had hermie issues with feminized seeds so I won't use them either. I prefer regular seeds from now on.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 17, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> I had poor results with a few Autos as well and I won't use them again. I also had hermie issues with feminized seeds so I won't use them either. I prefer regular seeds from now on.


I have always had crappy luck with autos.
Being fair I never leave them under 20/4 light so they never get very big.
I prefer reg seed as well because of the selection more then anything.
Now I'm stuck with a bodhi seeds addiction


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

Chopped a test bud from landos stash and rku.
Also chopped one of the gmt.
Going to trim up one a day over the rest of the week and then I'll switch my cabinet to veg for a week or two.
Aiming for some bigger plants this rotation.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

Wow
If the sample bud is any indication then I'm gonna have tons of seed.
Pulled 7 seeds out of a bud the size of a dime.probably going to have hundreds of each strain.
See some big pheno hunts in the future


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

Pollen chuck Rd 2 
Back row: space monkey, grandpasbreath,false teeth, rku/s
Front row: lucky charms, false teeth, rku/s
Got one more lucky charms to go in tomorrow and fingers crossed these are all ladies.
I'll paint pollen onto the space monkey and lucky charms lowers and I'm done breeding til the dank Sinatra are big and ready


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2017)

OneHitDone said:


> Ok, this concept has my attention!
> Want to run an idea by you adventurous experimenting types - you are running an 8 hour lights on period....
> What if those of use who run a typical 1000W hps hung over a 5x5 were to hang say 2 4ft T5's (one on each side of the hood), run the T5's for 4 hours at lights on and then have the 1000W come on for the next 8 hours with the T5's dropping off a half hour or so after the big lights come on. This would effectively keep us in a 12 hour cycle and greatly cut energy use.
> Any thoughts on what the outcome might be from those who have been doing these light cycle experiments?


I thought of doing something similar. I flower with t5. I use 4ft 8 bulb. Thought of going to a 12 bulb. Basically 4 bulbs then 8 then 12. All 12 would be on only for 5 hours or so.


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I have always had crappy luck with autos.
> Being fair I never leave them under 20/4 light so they never get very big.
> I prefer reg seed as well because of the selection more then anything.
> Now I'm stuck with a bodhi seeds addiction


Ive got the itch too


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> I thought of doing something similar. I flower with t5. I use 4ft 8 bulb. Thought of going to a 12 bulb. Basically 4 bulbs then 8 then 12. All 12 would be on only for 5 hours or so.


Very smart idea
Should work perfect


Angus Hung said:


> Ive got the itch too


I've got 7 bodhi strains in my veg tent.
I've been tryin my damnedest to work through my stockpile but I finally see light at the end of the tunnel.
Then I can focus on my bodhi chucks


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> And this is why I don't do auto flowers lolView attachment 3979177View attachment 3979179
> More cowbell View attachment 3979187
> Tiger mountainView attachment 3979189View attachment 3979190


It looks like you used a bloom feed on it. That stunts auto flowers and quickens flower. 

Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Wow
> If the sample bud is any indication then I'm gonna have tons of seed.
> Pulled 7 seeds out of a bud the size of a dime.probably going to have hundreds of each strain.
> See some big pheno hunts in the future


Nice work im one the first month of a big pheno hunt with more cow bell. that i crossed with another more cow bell a few grows ago
i popped about 400 seeds.. and am working off about 250 keepers.. i have just flipped a male oregon lemon to breed with a bunch of bohdi strains/


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 18, 2017)

Ive got a few other strains i crossed with more cow bell, if your into trading a few when your all finished.?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> It looks like you used a bloom feed on it. That stunts auto flowers and quickens flower.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong.


Ur wrong sir but that's ok
Those outdoor plants got no food at all.
It's just me and autos
Like Cher and sonny bono


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> I had poor results with a few Autos as well and I won't use them again. I also had hermie issues with feminized seeds so I won't use them either. I prefer regular seeds from now on.


What strains? I've run more fem seeds than I can count with only one or two herms. 

With a good breeder fems don't have a higher chance of herming. 

Auto flowers can be tricky but there are things that can tint them. There are things that extend the veg time and grows them bigger.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ur wrong sir but that's ok
> Those outdoor plants got no food at all.
> It's just me and autos
> Like Cher and sonny bono


Ah. Then deficient caused the yellow and purple.


There are ways to grow them bigger. 

To each their own though.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> Ah. Then deficient caused the yellow and purple.
> 
> 
> There are ways to grow them bigger.
> ...


These were a gift tbh
I didn't realize they were autos til they stopped growing under glr and I went and double checked the package then said screw it and threw em outside.
I'll get a couple weak sauce doobies out of em and live n learn.

Not my cup of tea.
Autos needing 20hours goes against my whole way of growing


----------



## ThcGuy (Jul 18, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> What strains? I've run more fem seeds than I can count with only one or two herms.
> 
> With a good breeder fems don't have a higher chance of herming.
> 
> Auto flowers can be tricky but there are things that can tint them. There are things that extend the veg time and grows them bigger.


I grew Dutch Passions Master Kush feminized years ago, they grew huge outside but bananas through out all the bud on all my plants, I also grew Dutch Passion Mazar, outside again and had a few bananas, not as bad as the master kush but they were still there.

The auto seeds were all grown in a green house and none of them got very big at all, I don't remember all the strains but they were all from Green House Seeds, I think they were White Widow, Lemon Skunk (I think, not sure) and a couple others, none of it impressed me.

Both of these grows were outside and the a long time ago 15+ years ago for the feminized and 5+ years ago for the autos.

I don't doubt breeders have gotten better with these strains but I can't afford to experiment so I am sticking with the regulars for now.


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 18, 2017)

Iv always like the F2 potential of taking the best male and female of the ten pack and let them breed.
then you have more seeds then you can ever do with. and get random crosses.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> These were a gift tbh
> I didn't realize they were autos til they stopped growing under glr and I went and double checked the package then said screw it and threw em outside.
> I'll get a couple weak sauce doobies out of em and live n learn.
> 
> ...


No doubt.

I get it. They don't need quite 20 hours. The right ones will get 4-5 foot outdoors. 

They need 15+ indoors. I use to run my autos under 6/2 to keep temps down.



ThcGuy said:


> I grew Dutch Passions Master Kush feminized years ago, they grew huge outside but bananas through out all the bud on all my plants, I also grew Dutch Passion Mazar, outside again and had a few bananas, not as bad as the master kush but they were still there.
> 
> The auto seeds were all grown in a green house and none of them got very big at all, I don't remember all the strains but they were all from Green House Seeds, I think they were White Widow, Lemon Skunk (I think, not sure) and a couple others, none of it impressed me.
> 
> ...


Yea they are a lot better now. In my thread I grew some 3 foot autos. 

As for fem seeds I don't know what caused the ones you grew to herm. It wasn't the fact they were fem. 

All cannabis is capable of herming and its not really genetic. Its an enzyme and they are all capable of it.

This comes from years of growing bag and brick seeds. I have a couple land race sativa strains that throw nanners. I grow them every other year or so.

Dinafem, female seeds, bomb seeds and any of the top 10 or 20 fem breeders on the seed banks are stable.


----------



## ThcGuy (Jul 18, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> No doubt.
> 
> I get it. They don't need quite 20 hours. The right ones will get 4-5 foot outdoors.
> 
> ...


Yep, it could have been something I did. They just left me scratching my head since it was the only time I ever got any hermies.

And the auto's I grew out like any other seed not realizing that they had different requirements.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> No doubt.
> 
> I get it. They don't need quite 20 hours. The right ones will get 4-5 foot outdoors.
> 
> ...


Yea autos just aren't for me.
My buddy swears by then but then again he begs me for weed so that says enough about the potency for me.
He says they have come a long way but I can't get my stubborn head around the idea of growing something that's only half mj.

And idk about the fems sir
I'm after reading more n more hermie stories on almost every breeders thread lately.
I've never had a problem with them myself other then the fact that most of what I'm after is only available in regs.
As you said tho to each their own.
I can certainly understand why they have a place in some growers rooms.
With plant counts and much more valuable time on the line it's a bonus I'm sure.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Yea autos just aren't for me.
> My buddy swears by then but then again he begs me for weed so that says enough about the potency for me.
> He says they have come a long way but I can't get my stubborn head around the idea of growing something that's only half mj.
> 
> ...


Plant count is the main reason I went with fem seeds. 5 is a felony here. 4 is a misdemeanor. It was easier to run fems.

Lately I quit caring about the number and went perpetual. I've been running regs.

I've also made my own fem seeds with colloidal silver and the rodelazation method (over ripening). 

I've even grown seeds from straight herm plants. I've seen a few threads doing the same. It surprises me. Its actually a low chance of the offspring herming. Of course slightly elevated over a stable strain.

Cannabis is a weird plant. They will throw nanners for various reasons just to save the species.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> Plant count is the main reason I went with fem seeds. 5 is a felony here. 4 is a misdemeanor. It was easier to run fems.
> 
> Lately I quit caring about the number and went perpetual. I've been running regs.
> 
> ...


I figured sir
Do my best to remember we all kinda gotta go by different rules.
Fems make a lot of sense and for years they are all I'd buy but then I found them inconsistent. Once a breeder loses your trust u go to plan b.
Now that I've stockpiled enough regs I figure I can chuck n trade for the rest of my life now.
My seed buying days are done.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I figured sir
> Do my best to remember we all kinda gotta go by different rules.
> Fems make a lot of sense and for years they are all I'd buy but then I found them inconsistent. Once a breeder loses your trust u go to plan b.
> Now that I've stockpiled enough regs I figure I can chuck n trade for the rest of my life now.
> My seed buying days are done.


I agree. My seed buying days are about over. I've been crossing plants for a while now.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> I agree. My seed buying days are about over. I've been crossing plants for a while now.


Well if u ever see me running something ur interested in just ask if I have more I like to share whenever possible


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Well if u ever see me running something ur interested in just ask if I have more I like to share whenever possible


I'm always interested.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm always interested.


In what sir?


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm
> In what sir?


In beans, especially enough for a proper pheno hunt.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> In beans, especially enough for a proper pheno hunt.


I'll have tons in a few weeks


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'll have tons in a few weeks


Splendid. I have friends who live for pheno hunts!


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Splendid. I have friends who live for pheno hunts!


I'm not sure which I'm more jealous about
Having friends or being able to do proper pheno hunts


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm not sure which I'm jealous more about
> Having friends or being able to do proper pheno hunts


I'm your friend, and my friends like pheno hunts.

Now you're covered on both fronts...

That's gotta be worth a grin, bro!


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

Hahaha
Fair enough bud lol
Got a grin out of me for sure


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Hahaha
> Fair enough bud lol
> Got a grin out of me for sure


And I'm a long lost Canuck, too! Can't beat that!


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> And I'm a long lost Canuck, too! Can't beat that!


U know I got love for fellow canucks
Just don't happen to know many potheads irl. Can't talk weed with the people I know.
It's painful.....half of them call strains strands and they all whine that I won't grow blue dream. 
guess that's why I'm on here so often


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 18, 2017)

bohdis does a nice dream lotus that is worth growing


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

Angus Hung said:


> bohdis does a nice dream lotus that is worth growing


Naaaa 
I'd rather not smoke then smoke more blue dream and tbh snow lotus is my least favourite of all the males he uses.
Everyone up here raves n raves about bd but it's never blown me away.
I've tasted better and had wayyy stronger u could say I'm spoiled now or ruined 
Either way I'm picky af


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Naaaa
> I'd rather not smoke then smoke more blue dream and tbh snow lotus is my least favourite of all the males he uses.
> Everyone up here raves n raves about bd but it's never blown me away.
> I've tasted better and had wayyy stronger u could say I'm spoiled now or ruined
> Either way I'm picky af


I've run it and I'm with you. Blue Dream is NOT all that.

I do wish there was some way for me to send you a few of my clones...


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I've run it and I'm with you. Blue Dream is NOT all that.
> 
> I do wish there was some way for me to send you a few of my clones...


You and me both.
That's probably one of the hang ups on the teleportation technology no one wants to release. Don't mind me I'm not smoking blue dream lmao


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> You and me both.
> That's probably one of the hang ups on the teleportation technology no one wants to release. Don't mind me I'm not smoking blue dream lmao


I have a few you'd love; Hillbilly Hobby, a pre '98 Bubba Kush x Moonshine Haze, Blue Cheese, Blueberry x Cheese and the real live, actual Candy Cut of Jillybean.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I have a few you'd love; Hillbilly Hobby, a pre '98 Bubba Kush x Moonshine Haze, Blue Cheese, Blueberry x Cheese and the real live, actual Candy Cut of Jillybean.


Yup ur right I'd love em all.
Or at least to try em all.
I've ran jillybean in the past tho
Bubba is one of my faves and actually does help my back


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Yup ur right I'd love em all.
> Or at least to try em all.
> I've ran jillybean in the past tho
> Bubba is one of my faves and actually does help my back


I'm 99% sure you didn't run this phenomenon of Jilly. It does make a big difference.

The Hillbilly Hobby is my personal all time favorite. I'm sure you'd love it. She goes 9-10 weeks but that just means you cut her last in the run.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm 99% sure you didn't run this phenomenon of Jilly. It does make a big difference.
> 
> The Hillbilly Hobby is my personal all time favorite. I'm sure you'd love it. She goes 9-10 weeks but that just means you cut her last in the run.


I popped a whole pack of jillybean in 2013 I think it was. Did ace of spades and Chernobyl at the same time.
Tga are the hands down kings of terps.

Anything bubba seems to go 9weeks but I'd get that down a lil bit I'm sure.
We shall probably never find out tho


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I popped a whole pack of jillybean in 2013 I think it was. Did ace of spades and Chernobyl at the same time.
> Tga are the hands down kings of terps.
> 
> Anything bubba seems to go 9weeks but I'd get that down a lil bit I'm sure.
> We shall probably never find out tho


Don't be so sure. I'm looking for someone to be the repository of these cuts. I wouldn't think of burdening anyone with losers.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Don't be so sure. I'm looking for someone to be the repository of these cuts. I wouldn't think of burdening anyone with losers.


So fire up the teleporter you've built and send em over.
Unless u got a different idea I need to hear about


----------



## whitebb2727 (Jul 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Well if u ever see me running something ur interested in just ask if I have more I like to share whenever possible


Ill keep that in mind. It all looks good.


----------



## zoic (Jul 19, 2017)

torontoke said:


> u could say I'm spoiled now or ruined
> Either way I'm picky af


Or you could say your taste in cannabis is more cultured and refined now. Why waste time and energy growing middle of the road when you can grow top shelf quality.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 19, 2017)

Finally managed to get my lil veg tent cleaned out a lil bit.
Minor light upgrade In there for now.
We'll see how it does with this nursery I've got going.
Sadly not a pheno hunt but instead
6 lucky charms
6 more cowbell
6 space monkey
5 dank Sinatra
3 false teeth
3 field trip
2 Hindu hashplant

If this light does what I'm hoping my gpw is about to get unbelievably better.


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 20, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Naaaa
> I'd rather not smoke then smoke more blue dream and tbh snow lotus is my least favourite of all the males he uses.
> Everyone up here raves n raves about bd but it's never blown me away.
> I've tasted better and had wayyy stronger u could say I'm spoiled now or ruined
> Either way I'm picky af


got too do your thing man,, some people like there cucumbers pickled..


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 20, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Finally managed to get my lil veg tent cleaned out a lil bit.
> Minor light upgrade In there for now.
> We'll see how it does with this nursery I've got going.
> Sadly not a pheno hunt but instead
> ...


what have you got in there for your light?
sounds like a impressive line up,


----------



## torontoke (Jul 20, 2017)

Angus Hung said:


> got too do your thing man,, some people like there cucumbers pickled..


Exactly right sir
I don't judge how or what anyone wants in life if it makes u happy have at er.



Angus Hung said:


> what have you got in there for your light?
> sounds like a impressive line up,


Thanks I'm trying to make it through my stockpile and looking for keepers to hit with pollen then I'll do some further hunting.

I just installed 2 pcb boards running about 60watts each.
A huge step up from the t5 and led bulbs I had going.
Trying to veg these 2' pre flip


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 20, 2017)

sweet deal.. if you dont mind me asking where did you get your pcb boards?
iv got a few lights im working on retro fitting and only need the pcb boards?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 20, 2017)

Angus Hung said:


> sweet deal.. if you dont mind me asking where did you get your pcb boards?
> iv got a few lights im working on retro fitting and only need the pcb boards?


The ones in my flower cabinet are quantum boards from hlg. Impossible to get your hands on lately.
The ones in my veg tent are a bigger version that unfortunately aren't for sale.
The ones on https://www.photonfantomdesigns.com/shop/ look to be great for the $50 price tag and they are only 36v.
Depending on size and wattage there are now a few options.
Cutter just dropped a 12x12 square pcb but it's pricey.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 20, 2017)

Well I topped all the plants in my cabinet again and I imagine even with led it's going to be awhile for everything to grow out.

Got the veg tent light all set up and I'll be topping the crap out of those seedlings asap. Again it's going to be awhile for updated pictures.

I'll be around but thought I'd throw up a heads up as to why it's gonna get quiet again.


----------



## zoic (Jul 20, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I've run it and I'm with you. Blue Dream is NOT all that.


I have not grown it, but neither Blue Dream nor Green Crack has me going back for seconds. 
Girl Scout Cookies were my best so far, so I am going to do another run of them and see if I can find a mother to work with for cloning.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 20, 2017)

zoic said:


> I have not grown it, but neither Blue Dream nor Green Crack has me going back for seconds.
> Girl Scout Cookies were my best so far, so I am going to do another run of them and see if I can find a mother to work with for cloning.


Honestly bud if your after a killer cookie cross to run perpetual look into this one.
https://www.greatlakesgenetics.com/listing/more-cowbell-gsc-x-88g13-hp/626
$70 for 11 and worth every cent.
Hands down real deal cookies and killer smoke. I just popped the second half of my pack or I'd send u some.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 20, 2017)

Gooey landos stash


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 20, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3981533
> Gooey landos stash


looks pretty chronic


----------



## torontoke (Jul 20, 2017)

Angus Hung said:


> looks pretty chronic


It's alright 
Does the job


----------



## zoic (Jul 20, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Honestly bud if your after a killer cookie cross to run perpetual look into this one.
> https://www.greatlakesgenetics.com/listing/more-cowbell-gsc-x-88g13-hp/626
> $70 for 11 and worth every cent.
> Hands down real deal cookies and killer smoke. I just popped the second half of my pack or I'd send u some.


Thanks, I will definitely check that out.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

Holy shit
This seedrun has changed my respect for breeders. That's one patient group of folks.
This bag represents one branch and I'm suddenly thankful I only grew 6 plants.

This is gonna take awhile


----------



## ThcGuy (Jul 21, 2017)

Just think of the pounds of bud you will be able to grow with them. It's kind of inspirational! I might have to pollinate a few buds on each plant.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Just think of the pounds of bud you will be able to grow with them. It's kind of inspirational! I might have to pollinate a few buds on each plant.


I get a tear in my eye each time I break a bud up and it's 95% seed.
Not much "smoke" to be had out of this round. I'm trying to think positive about all the bud I'm gonna grow out of these and how many people I can help by sending some but serious lesson to be made here.
From now on I'll just paint pollen onto lowers open pollinated plants make too many seeds.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

One of these moods on a Friday
Fixing to head north n check on my outdoor girls.
Maybe build some shit while I'm up there.
Going to meet a realtor and look at some new digs. Hoping they are motivated to make something happen I know I am.


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I get a tear in my eye each time I break a bud up and it's 95% seed.
> Not much "smoke" to be had out of this round. I'm trying to think positive about all the bud I'm gonna grow out of these and how many people I can help by sending some but serious lesson to be made here.
> From now on I'll just paint pollen onto lowers open pollinated plants make too many seeds.


I had a few small problems when i did open pollination, way more seeds then needed, i left the male in for to long so they pollenated a few times and by the end of week 10 it was still trying to make more seeds.paint the lowers good once with pollen at week 3 or 4 
is my plan for this go around. 
but large pheno hunts can be more affordable when you have thousands of seeds.


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 21, 2017)

I enjoy the idea of finding the 1 in a 1000 that likely no one else has found, I believe that most all strains will have the one keeper if your planting thousands of seeds, its just a matter of finding it.


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Jul 21, 2017)

You can never have too many seeds.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> You can never have too many seeds.


Idk sir
I gotta be getting near the cross over line some time soon lol
You know u have more then enough when u start weighing them instead of counting


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Jul 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Idk sir
> I gotta be getting near the cross over line some time soon lol
> You know u have more then enough when u start weighing them instead of counting


Lmao so true


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

Angus Hung said:


> I enjoy the idea of finding the 1 in a 1000 that likely no one else has found, I believe that most all strains will have the one keeper if your planting thousands of seeds, its just a matter of finding it.


I agree 100%
And I'm glad u did all those more cowbell seeds. It's one of my new favourite smokes.
I just finished smoking the last nug I had of my last run of it.
Tasted like those chocolate shortbeard cookies unbelievable taste. Think my gf smoked more of it then me and she's picky


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 21, 2017)

iv got plenty of beans from the seeding if you would like a few.


----------



## Angus Hung (Jul 21, 2017)

me and a buddy played around w/ about 10 strains from bohdi last year and cowbell was the fav, secret cheif #2 but i think secret cheif is a sister to more cow bell (related some how)


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

Angus Hung said:


> iv got plenty of beans from the seeding if you would like a few.


Oh for sure just got my hands full with all these but once things settle back down for me around here I'd love to do a nice pheno hunt run of them.



Angus Hung said:


> me and a buddy played around w/ about 10 strains from bohdi last year and cowbell was the fav, secret cheif #2 but i think secret cheif is a sister to more cow bell (related some how)


Of all the bodhi gear I've ran I'd have to say dank Sinatra was the most potent I've had in a long time if not ever. Wobbly leg special.
Got a bunch of f2's in my tent now that I'm hoping to breed and make more since it's a dying strain.


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Jul 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Oh for sure just got my hands full with all these but once things settle back down for me around here I'd love to do a nice pheno hunt run of them.
> 
> 
> Of all the bodhi gear I've ran I'd have to say dank Sinatra was the most potent I've had in a long time if not ever. Wobbly leg special.
> Got a bunch of f2's in my tent now that I'm hoping to breed and make more since it's a dying strain.


So Dank Sinatra is that dank eh?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> So Dank Sinatra is that dank eh?


I was more then impressed.
I'm an indica lover and it is 100% Indy in every way. Lime spearmint badass

My best friend has been smoking 20yrs and I told him go easy he laughed and greened out to puking and needing a nap


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Jul 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I was more then impressed.
> I'm an indica lover and it is 100% Indy in every way. Lime spearmint badass
> 
> My best friend has been smoking 20yrs and I told him go easy he laughed and greened out to puking and needing a nap


That is fucking epic! I see Midweek Song still has some DS in stock. I may have to order a pack!


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> That is fucking epic! I see Midweek Song still has some DS in stock. I may have to order a pack!


I ordered a few weeks ago just specifically after the ds.
If it's available and u don't mind being couch locked then I highly recommend buying them up. Midweek only has em cus most people forget they sell bodhi.
And I don't remind em in case I ever want an older pack lol


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Jul 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I ordered a few weeks ago just specifically after the ds.
> If it's available and u don't mind being couch locked then I highly recommend buying them up. Midweek only has em cus most people forget they sell bodhi.
> And I don't remind em in case I ever want an older pack lol


Why is it a dying strain though? Did Bodhi lose the parents?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

I was told by an inside source that the la affie mom is refusing to take pollen so he may be forced to put ds on hold til he replaces the mom.
I'm sure it will come back but I've thought that about a lot of his crosses and they are now gone for good. 
Well in terms of buying them anyway


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Jul 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I was told by an inside source that the la affie mom is refusing to take pollen so he may be forced to put ds on hold til he replaces the mom.
> I'm sure it will come back but I've thought that about a lot of his crosses and they are now gone for good.
> Well in terms of buying them anyway


Even if he replaces the affie mom, it wouldnt be a true DS anymore correct?
What happened to Lucky Charms also?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> Even if he replaces the affie mom, it wouldnt be a true DS anymore correct?
> What happened to Lucky Charms also?


Lc uses a famous cut of the white that sin from sin city used in a few of his crosses but like a few other bodhi strains lc fell victim to bodhi losing the Appalachian papa while off on one of his seed collecting trips.
Because it was so popular there was next to no stock laying around like some of the other oldies.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 21, 2017)

And no technically the dank Sinatra would be slightly different but would have the same family genetics


----------



## torontoke (Jul 24, 2017)

More cowbell
 
Space monkey

Tiger mountain


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 24, 2017)

Things cooling off over your way yet?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 24, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Things cooling off over your way yet?


Cooling off in which way sir?
Temp wise? It's been rainy and damp this year. Not much middle ground either 35 and hotter then a shit house in Haiti or cold and rainy.


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Jul 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> More cowbell
> View attachment 3983835
> Space monkey
> View attachment 3983836
> ...


Are these ones going to be seeded?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 24, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> Are these ones going to be seeded?


No sir
Those ones are not even mentioned in the same breathe as pollen.
All girls out there thankfully


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Jul 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No sir
> Those ones are not even mentioned in the same breathe as pollen.
> All girls out there thankfully


Gotcha. Gonna be some nice smoke. That Space Monkey. Ever tried it?


----------



## torontoke (Jul 24, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> Gotcha. Gonna be some nice smoke. That Space Monkey. Ever tried it?


Last run
It was the smallest yielder but one of the most potent.
I have more in my veg tent I'm going to let them get way bigger for the next run.
Has a Chem pine terpentine flavour and stinks even during veg.


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Jul 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Last run
> It was the smallest yielders but one of the most potent.
> I have more in my veg tent I'm going to let them get way bigger for the next run.
> Has a Chem pine terpentine flavour and stinks even during veg.


Can't wait to see some harvest pics


----------



## torontoke (Jul 24, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> Can't wait to see some harvest pics


U and me both 
There's pics of my last one but she didn't get very big. 
The plants currently in my flower cab seem to be bushing up nicely not sure how much longer I'll leave them on 12:1


----------



## torontoke (Jul 24, 2017)

Here's what 5days of 12:1 under quantums looks like.
The shorties are still tied up and have at least 8 tops.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 25, 2017)

Space monkey reveg
 
Grandpasbreath reveg
Rkuxrks
  
False teeth

 
Lucky charms f2


----------



## torontoke (Jul 26, 2017)

A full week of led light on the gas light routine has once again showed me different results then those I've read about others getting.
All the fim'd and topped sections have regrown 2 or 3 new tops.
Lots of fresh new growth and I'm hoping they are big enough to give me a worthwhile yield.
Timer flipped to flower today so fingers crossed all the training and time was worthwhile.
I'll throw up another pic once they all start preflowering and showing sex.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 26, 2017)

I can't speak to the numbers created by the new light in my veg tent but so far I'm more then impressed.
These lights are twice as wide as qb's and have almost twice as many diodes but driven softly (60watts) produces next to no heat what so ever.
I can place my hand on the back of the pcb after it's been on 12hours with no heat sink.
Been talking to a few manufacturers and I think if I'm going to be setting up as large of a grow as I'm hoping next year I'll get a large batch of these made for myself, to my own specs. 
There's a few things I can think of off the top of my head to make these even better.
Depends how many I'm gonna need down the road I suppose.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 31, 2017)

Just an update so no one thinks I died or quit.


----------



## ThcGuy (Jul 31, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Just an update so no one thinks I died or quit.


Lol, I was wondering what happened with this thread.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 31, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Lol, I was wondering what happened with this thread.


It's a busy time of the year for me even tho I'm basically retired and broken down.
Plus the plants were in that in between phase.


----------



## zoic (Jul 31, 2017)

Looks awesome, but do not get lost in that jungle.


----------



## torontoke (Jul 31, 2017)

zoic said:


> Looks awesome, but do not get lost in that jungle.


Thank you sir

Excited the lucky charms looks like a girl.
Rks is definitely a male
I'll chop him tomorrow and check the rest a lil closer.
The reveg bushes are going to put out nicely I'm rather surprised how many more branches they have now vs the first run.
The more cowbell reveg in my tent isn't faring as well. I left much less foliage on it then the other 2.
Depending on how much yield I get off the reveg plants I may do that more often now.


----------



## zoic (Jul 31, 2017)

I am very interested in how that works out for you. I am very inspired to try it myself. Back in the 70's one of my buddies did it 4 times with 3 plants and the buds were so big and fat you could not hide them with your forearm.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 1, 2017)

zoic said:


> I am very interested in how that works out for you. I am very inspired to try it myself. Back in the 70's one of my buddies did it 4 times with 3 plants and the buds were so big and fat you could not hide them with your forearm.


I can believe it
Only thing I've consistently heard was that reveg seemed to take forever.
I didn't find that to be the case. In 50 days I saw plants that were no more then picked over skeletons bush out to 300% their original size. For someone on tight plant counts I could see just revegging the same plants over n over. I should wait to see what they re flower like before making an early judgement


----------



## jpdnkstr (Aug 1, 2017)

My experience with re-veg is that it is very strain specific as to how they respond. sometimes it takes a very long time for them to come around, other strains it doesn't seem to slow them down at all.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 1, 2017)

jpdnkstr said:


> My experience with re-veg is that it is very strain specific as to how they respond. sometimes it takes a very long time for them to come around, other strains it doesn't seem to slow them down at all.


Thanks for chiming in.
This time it was a space monkey and grandpasbreath in less than 50days.

I shouldn't have opened my big yap about the lucky charms today I noticed it's a dude.
And both rku x rks are also male.


----------



## Bakersfield (Aug 1, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thank you sir
> 
> Excited the lucky charms looks like a girl.
> Rks is definitely a male
> ...


I too like to Reveg when necessary.
I'll sometimes Reveg a choice plant vs taking cuttings of all new prospects when growing out a pack of regs.
Yields and vigor of the revegged plant, seem to be affected by how strong the plant was to begin with.
Another thing I have found is, reveg plants send out so many new shoots that yields will suffer unless you can cut all but a few select stems off.

Here's a revegged plant I harvested yesterday, that I think will surpass it's first run yield.
Bruce Banner #3 X Stardawg
 
I revegged this one and threw her right back into flower when the new shoots were about 4 inches long. This gal is a 3x stretcher and then some, once she stacks on the stretch.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 1, 2017)

That looks awesome
I've yet to try anything with that bb3 in it.
Does it live up to the hype?

This was my first time trying a reveg and was even more surprised that the 12:1 or glr lighting didn't seem to hinder them from reverting back to veg.
I will have a lot of lil shitty tiny branches to snip off but I wish I had kept a few others around just to see how they would do.
Clones def aren't the only way to keep stuff around that's for sure


----------



## Bakersfield (Aug 1, 2017)

This is my first strain with the BB#3 and it's great weed, but not my favorite.
I believe it's the Stardawg father that's the rockstar in the cross, giving vigor and form to her structure and possibly toning down bb#3 high.
It's affects are like smoking a heavy couch lock variety while doing lines of cocaine. Like an excited up high with bad focus, combined with a heavy body. Good for pain but it keeps me up at night.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 1, 2017)

Bakersfield said:


> This is my first strain with the BB#3 and it's great weed, but not my favorite.
> I believe it's the Stardawg father that's the rockstar in the cross, giving vigor and form to her structure and possibly toning down bb#3 high.
> It's affects are like smoking a heavy couch lock variety while doing lines of cocaine. Like an excited up high with bad focus, combined with a heavy body. Good for pain but it keeps me up at night.


I've been noticing that stardawg and similar cuts are really starting to show up and get mixed with everything.
Never really got into the chem craze to much. I tried ghs, icp and a few others but didn't much care for it. The icp chem was good but I'm thinking my taste buds are just spoiled now.
I'm usually after that lip smacking goodness that makes u say wtf and want more.
As I'm getting older my priorities have changed I guess.
I'd rather have a tad lower potency but taste so good I smoke twice as much


----------



## Bakersfield (Aug 1, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I've been noticing that stardawg and similar cuts are really starting to show up and get mixed with everything.
> Never really got into the chem craze to much. I tried ghs, icp and a few others but didn't much care for it. The icp chem was good but I'm thinking my taste buds are just spoiled now.
> I'm usually after that lip smacking goodness that makes u say wtf and want more.
> As I'm getting older my priorities have changed I guess.
> I'd rather have a tad lower potency but taste so good I smoke twice as much


I hear you on that, taste is not chems strong suit, but it's got it's hooks in me. It's as if the skunky swamp gas janitorial cleaner odors have a secret pheromone present that sucks me in.
I have not grown much in the exceptional taste department.
My best tasting so far is a Fire Alien Strawberry X Master Kush that is similar to coffee and strawberry.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 1, 2017)

Tigermelon skunk was delicious.
Pretty sure that's a chem cross that had the tasty wow factor.
I lean towards the lime terps and love when I can taste a joint on my lips ten minutes after smoking it. Drop a roach in a cig pack and those smokes now reek.
Chernobyl was the best tasting I've grown.


----------



## jpdnkstr (Aug 1, 2017)

I just wanted to chime in on the Bruce Banner # 3. I was recently gifted some clones because I've heard great things and picked some flower up in the dispensary a couple years ago and it was phenomenal. I'll try and remember to let you know how they turn out I'm really looking forward to it. It's been one of the only strains I found in a dispensary that I was impressed with...


----------



## torontoke (Aug 1, 2017)

jpdnkstr said:


> I just wanted to chime in on the Bruce Banner # 3. I was recently gifted some clones because I've heard great things and picked some flower up in the dispensary a couple years ago and it was phenomenal. I'll try and remember to let you know how they turn out I'm really looking forward to it. It's been one of the only strains I found in a dispensary that I was impressed with...


So far I've been surprised that the hyped popular strains have lived up to my expectations.
I'm a lil bit tired of all cookie n kush madness but most of it is fire.
Same as the only gg4 stuff I've tried.
I imagine the bb3 is super dank just by the high test numbers that keep coming out.
But I look forward to hearing how yours turns out.


----------



## jpdnkstr (Aug 2, 2017)

torontoke said:


> So far I've been surprised that the hyped popular strains have lived up to my expectations.
> I'm a lil bit tired of all cookie n kush madness but most of it is fire.
> Same as the only gg4 stuff I've tried.
> I imagine the bb3 is super dank just by the high test numbers that keep coming out.
> But I look forward to hearing how yours turns out.


Thank you it's funny you mentioned the gg4 because I also picked up some clippings of that the same time I picked up the BB3 the gg4 clippings have rooted and I'll keep you posted on those as well A friend of mine gave me some gg4 flower the other day that I was impressed with but it's the first time I've been impressed with any Gorilla Glue that I've seen


----------



## torontoke (Aug 2, 2017)

The only gg4 crosses I've tried are space monkey from bodhi and lake of fire from red eyed genetics. 
Not much clone availability up here as of yet.

Swapped out the lucky charms male for another unsex'd lc
Put another false teeth in for the rku/s male

Stretch? Lol maybe a lil bit this time


----------



## hillbill (Aug 3, 2017)

The Monkey stinks and the Monkey is strong! Raised 2 and have 2 girls 1 week in. Took on a serious cedar nose and had a hell of a punch. Also have a Gorilla Bubble BX2 I just chopped. Smells a little bubblegum and grape. Not really tried yet.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 3, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Aug 3, 2017)

hillbill said:


> The Monkey stinks and the Monkey is strong! Raised 2 and have 2 girls 1 week in. Took on a serious cedar nose and had a hell of a punch. Also have a Gorilla Bubble BX2 I just chopped. Smells a little bubblegum and grape. Not really tried yet.


Agreed
Space monkey was nicer then I expected.
Enough so to make me buy another pack.


----------



## hillbill (Aug 3, 2017)

I have a boy Monkey outside down the hill.


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## torontoke (Aug 3, 2017)

hillbill said:


> I have a boy Monkey outside down the hill.


Smelling some f2's about to happen


----------



## torontoke (Aug 4, 2017)




----------



## ThcGuy (Aug 4, 2017)

Nice, I can't wait to see bud formation to start in my room.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 4, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Nice, I can't wait to see bud formation to start in my room.


I hear that
It's one of my favourite parts of the beautiful cycle. Also the beginning of the smelly part


----------



## torontoke (Aug 4, 2017)

The seedlings in my tent are finally starting to show some signs of life.
Surprisingly the space monkey and Hindu hashplant are looking the furthest along.
Hopefully now that they have some real leaf they will take off so I can get topping and training.
Hoping I can get them in the 20+" range before the next flower cycle is done.

No pollen going into the cab this run.
Need to refill the smoke jars then I'll be making another round of crosses.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2017)

All in 8/16?


----------



## torontoke (Aug 4, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> All in 8/16?


My cabinet is on 8/16 the tent is on 12:1


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## ttystikk (Aug 4, 2017)

torontoke said:


> My cabinet is on 8/16 the tent is on 12:1


?


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## torontoke (Aug 4, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> ?


Not sure what your questioning sir
The flower cabinet is and has always been on 8/16
The veg tent is on 12:1 or glr
That's why those seedlings took so long I'm guessing but they seem to have weathered the storm


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## torontoke (Aug 5, 2017)

Lucky charms short front

2nd lc
False teeth 2

False teeth 1


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## ttystikk (Aug 5, 2017)

False teeth?! Why do I need my weed to remind me of my advancing decrepitude?

LOL


----------



## torontoke (Aug 5, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> False teeth?! Why do I need my weed to remind me of my advancing decrepitude?
> 
> LOL


Hey I didn't name it bro
Was a nice donation by a fellow member who thought I'd try it since I ran grandpasbreath last time lol
It's candy land x grandpasbreath from dvg.
I enjoyed the gb more then I was expecting tbh so figured why not.
I like throwing in a few random plants that I wouldn't necessarily buy but would love to sample. It's worked hit n miss over the years but it's helped me really zero in on the things I look for and worst case scenario is I end up with a few zips that linger around forever or get donated to someone in need.


----------



## ANC (Aug 5, 2017)

I think you need to tie a grid to the wall, and try and grow them flat against the wall, the stretching you have now, makes it hard to light the plants evenly.
If it is all up against a wall (you will need to start new plants to do this and train them from when they are small) it might yield a bit more.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 5, 2017)

ANC said:


> I think you need to tie a grid to the wall, and try and grow them flat against the wall, the stretching you have now, makes it hard to light the plants evenly.
> If it is all up against a wall (you will need to start new plants to do this and train them from when they are small) it might yield a bit more.


Certainly a good idea sir.
Personally I think the biggest problem is that all six of these are at different stages.
The back row is literally twice as old as the front and that's on top of the fact that there's 4 different strains in there.
The stretchy ass back plants are the reveg plants that I flowered two cycles ago.
They got 50 days of glr and now a they are flowering again.

Currently my veg tent only has an army of seedlings so hopefully my next run is all more similar in size so should be a more even canopy. It doesn't always have to be sexy to provide good smoke so it will have to do for now anyway.

Been designing a new cabinet all morning.
Might be building a bigger better cabinet real soon.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 6, 2017)

Solo cup hempy up pot day.
The rock wool cubes have made this chore much much easier.
Roots seem to like the excellorator drops I've been using. Hopefully the transplant kicks them into gear faster and they take off


----------



## torontoke (Aug 6, 2017)

Baby bodhi army lol
In their popcorn cups 
The ones far left in solos are probably going to die off so that will leave 
A row of dank Sinatra, space monkey, more cowbell and then 3 lucky charms 2 field trip 1hindu hashplant


----------



## torontoke (Aug 7, 2017)

Last runs harvest minus a few zips of manhandled bud.
All three were good smoke so I'm excited to see what shows up out of these.


----------



## ThcGuy (Aug 7, 2017)

You have enough there to last a life time! Awesome job torontoke!


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## torontoke (Aug 7, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> You have enough there to last a life time! Awesome job torontoke!


Thanks bud
Can't take much credit for letting Mother Nature do her thing.
Should last awhile
I'm happy to stop buying for at least a lil while


----------



## torontoke (Aug 8, 2017)

Testers came in the mail
I thought I said no thanks this time but wtf why not
Not like I've already got my tent full.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Testers came in the mail
> I thought I said no thanks this time but wtf why not
> Not like I've already got my tent full.
> View attachment 3991827


The perennial problem of the man who has everything; where to PUT IT?! 

LOL


----------



## torontoke (Aug 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The perennial problem of the man who has everything; where to PUT IT?!
> 
> LOL


Just gonna have to get way pickier on the seedling I have going. Runts are getting chopped. Got no time to be playing babysitter.
Worst case scenario I'll buy another tent and find a new gf when this one loses it and moves lmao


----------



## torontoke (Aug 8, 2017)

Had to chop another male today it was a false teeth.
So not that bummed out bout it.
Still got one left that isn't showing yet but I suspect tomorrow will be the day.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 8, 2017)




----------



## GroErr (Aug 8, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Just gonna have to get way pickier on the seedling I have going. Runts are getting chopped. Got no time to be playing babysitter.
> Worst case scenario I'll buy another tent and find a new gf when this one loses it and moves lmao


That's the beauty of free/diy seeds, you have so many there's no room for plants that get defs or aren't as vibrant as you'd like. Get some crappy phenos, run another pack or two looking for 1 nice plant!

That tent conversation came up with the GF, once, when I took over the laundry room unused space for extra veg space. Needless to say I won that battle. There are 2 things that there's no negotiating on for me, grow and music equipment. Anything else can be discussed


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 8, 2017)

GroErr said:


> That's the beauty of free/diy seeds, you have so many there's no room for plants that get defs or aren't as vibrant as you'd like. Get some crappy phenos, run another pack or two looking for 1 nice plant!
> 
> That tent conversation came up with the GF, once, when I took over the laundry room unused space for extra veg space. Needless to say I won that battle. There are 2 things that there's no negotiating on for me, grow and music equipment. Anything else can be discussed


Oh, I think I can come up with a couple more!


----------



## GroErr (Aug 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Oh, I think I can come up with a couple more!


Lol, probably... As I said, other items can be _discussed_, it may not go her way, but a discussion can be had


----------



## torontoke (Aug 9, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, probably... As I said, other items can be _discussed_, it may not go her way, but a discussion can be had


Lol I'm not often as open to discussing things. Usually I explain why I'm doing something followed by why she should think it's a good idea.
All disagreements end with me explaining how to use google maps if she wants to leave. 

The veg tent seems to have turned the corner a bit


----------



## torontoke (Aug 9, 2017)

Had a long deep argument/discussion with a former friend partner that's still really big in the commercial cash crop biz.
Apparently he's been traveling all over the world consulting on larger ops and making a tidy lil sum while doing it.
He says if I can manage to hit my goal he'll not only finance my book deal but also lend me the cash to put down on my dream barn.
Nothing like the shit talking of others to get you motivated and into I told u so mode.
540grams would put me at 3G per watt but I'm going to push it and aim for 600.
Thinking 6 plants 100g dry off each should be entirely do able.
Definitely won't be happening with the current ragamuffin assortment I've got going right now but hopefully 8-10 of the plants in veg take off and show themselves capable of surpassing expectations 

Stay high aim higher


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol I'm not often as open to discussing things. Usually I explain why I'm doing something followed by why she should think it's a good idea.
> All disagreements end with me explaining how to use google maps if she wants to leave.
> 
> The veg tent seems to have turned the corner a bit
> View attachment 3992250


Well ain't YOU a real peach! LOL


----------



## torontoke (Aug 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Well ain't YOU a real peach! LOL


She must think so 
Or she really can't work google maps


----------



## zoic (Aug 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> 'm happy to stop buying for at least a lil while


LOL, you keep going at that rate and you will need to open a quinoa processing facility for all those seeds.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 9, 2017)

zoic said:


> LOL, you keep going at that rate and you will need to open a quinoa processing facility for all those seeds.


Lol not likely
I'm to lazy to open any type of business.
Besides it would get in the way of being able to complain about being poor.
I'm sure they will eventually be put to good use


----------



## torontoke (Aug 11, 2017)

Lucky charms
Fingers crossed she's a girl 

Grandpasbreath re veg
 
Space monkey re veg
 
False teeth
 
   

Going to finish another shed
And check my outdoor girls this weekend.
Stay medicated folks


----------



## zoic (Aug 11, 2017)

Very nice looking tt. I will keep an eye out for pics of your outdoor girls. I have two plants outdoors as well, but just in my backyard and they are both males. 

I will just take the day one toke at a time.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 11, 2017)

More cowbell

 
 
Posting pics is taking forever so I'll post some more when I get home.
All these outdoor plants are just now starting to flower will be real close that they finish before it gets to cold.
So far tho I'm super impressed with the soil up here naturally and can't wait to see what a greenhouse up here could do.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 15, 2017)

Lucky charms
 
Gb 
 
Space monkey
 
False teeth


----------



## torontoke (Aug 15, 2017)

Veg tent is slowly but surely gaining foliage 
 
All have been topped at least once already and surprisingly none of the solos have died


----------



## torontoke (Aug 15, 2017)

Well I'm the type that likes to plan way ahead and I need to seek out some advice.
I'm by no means an electrical engineering expert so I'm not sure how to do this.
Firstly I'd like to use one driver to power 3 lights.
So assuming I build 3 exact lights and I'd like to have them switch 8/8/8.
Secondly I'd love to try a shortened overall day. So 8/12 or maybe even 7/11.
Shortened day would fluctuate between peak hours but is there a timer out that can do this?
Thinking perhaps an overall shorter day could chop another couple days.
If I can get the cabinet yielding one lb every 45 days I'd be more than happy.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 16, 2017)

Today the tent looks a lil better


----------



## ANC (Aug 16, 2017)

You could hit your target, but you need to copy my root building method. 

Those plants on the right can do with some Epsom salts


----------



## torontoke (Aug 16, 2017)

I'm not very bright so copying the methods of others never seems to go as planned.
Might not hit my target ever anyway but that's ok I'm stubborn enough to keep trying


----------



## torontoke (Aug 16, 2017)

Bodhi bubba katsu x omg testers are wet.
Threw in the whole pack for a true germ/sex ratio.

Think the lucky charms female flowering is definitely getting revegged and hit with male pollen. So far she is the first female so I have no doubt one of the 4 in my tent will be a male. Hopefully he's a good male but should be lucky charms f3's on the way soon enough.
Think I might open pollinate a batch of space monkey, more cowbell and dank Sinatra with the lucky charms aswell.
Would make some nice crosses.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 16, 2017)

Hit them with a light shower before bed
Plucked a couple more tops off


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Well I'm the type that likes to plan way ahead and I need to seek out some advice.
> I'm by no means an electrical engineering expert so I'm not sure how to do this.
> Firstly I'd like to use one driver to power 3 lights.
> So assuming I build 3 exact lights and I'd like to have them switch 8/8/8.
> ...


Digital cycle timer. There are a few out there.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Digital cycle timer. There are a few out there.


That do a day of less then 24 hours or do u need to run it into the next days cycle?
I've read the specs on most and they all seem fixed on 24 hour days or would be nightmares to program.
At least for a dummy like me


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> That do a day of less then 24 hours or do u need to run it into the next days cycle?
> I've read the specs on most and they all seem fixed on 24 hour days or would be nightmares to program.
> At least for a dummy like me


Not all of them.

http://eastwesthydro.com/environmental-controllers/titan-controls/hades-2-digital-recycle-and-light-timer-with-high-temp-shut-off-702856?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=product-feed&_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=CjwKCAjw2s_MBRA5EiwAmWIac8cxl7AyhF4RXtYt6cwnbIVuseWqLCIzX7fY7ogtC7jeJKK9IE8XlBoC1HsQAvD_BwE

http://www.aeroponicsnmore.com/Sentinel-GPS-MDT-4-Master-Digital-Timer-6944845010258.htm?gclid=CjwKCAjw2s_MBRA5EiwAmWIac3q09ypD8il-J7YfOzWLIbYMLXCOLQK7EmWIbTXqERf43wByjGHpvhoC-RgQAvD_BwE

Google 'digital recycling timer'.

For a three way setup you may need more than one unit.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Not all of them.
> 
> http://eastwesthydro.com/environmental-controllers/titan-controls/hades-2-digital-recycle-and-light-timer-with-high-temp-shut-off-702856?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=product-feed&_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=CjwKCAjw2s_MBRA5EiwAmWIac8cxl7AyhF4RXtYt6cwnbIVuseWqLCIzX7fY7ogtC7jeJKK9IE8XlBoC1HsQAvD_BwE
> 
> ...


Thanks sir
I'll look into those timers.
The 3way switch obviously would need to be a seperate set up completely but I'm curious about trying both.

Thanks again


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks sir
> I'll look into those timers.
> The 3way switch obviously would need to be a seperate set up completely but I'm curious about trying both.
> 
> Thanks again


The hard way would be to use an Arduino controller, but it would be the option with the most flexibility.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The hard way would be to use an Arduino controller, but it would be the option with the most flexibility.


Yea I was looking at those last year.
My friend suggested a simple computer program like a dos plc but I just looked at him and scratched my head.
Biggest problem I've found so far is the more options the more this project costs.
Oh well like I said just looking into it all now so I can prepare.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Yea I was looking at those last year.
> My friend suggested a simple computer program like a dos plc but I just looked at him and scratched my head.
> Biggest problem I've found so far is the more options the more this project costs.
> Oh well like I said just looking into it all now so I can prepare.


I do like the idea of cycling the same blooming watts through three different growing spaces every 24 hours.

I was kicking the idea around of doing that with my water cooled COB LED racks and running them all on the same water loop; it would cool the 'on' room while keeping the 'off' rooms warm.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I do like the idea of cycling the same blooming watts through three different growing spaces every 24 hours.
> 
> I was kicking the idea around of doing that with my water cooled COB LED racks and running them all on the same water loop; it would cool the 'on' room while keeping the 'off' rooms warm.


Yea I was thinking along those lines for the folks complaining that led runs to cool and they would need heat in winter.
Plus my grams per watt would be pretty good 
I've got more plans and ideas then I could ever get too so please feel free to give it a go I'll gladly watch and take notes.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Yea I was thinking along those lines for the folks complaining that led runs to cool and they would need heat in winter.
> Plus my grams per watt would be pretty good
> I've got more plans and ideas then I could ever get too so please feel free to give it a go I'll gladly watch and take notes.


I'm all about it- just send money!


----------



## torontoke (Aug 16, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm all about it- just send money!


No problem
I ever tell u about my long lost Nigerian uncle......


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No problem
> I ever tell u about my long lost Nigerian uncle......


If the rubber check cashes, I'm in!


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

Checked out those timers last night tty 
Says right in their manuals that they can be used for day/night or 24 hour. But can only be turned on/off once in a 24hour period.

Was super medicated and sitting on my back deck last night when my neighbours sprinklers started and I thought hmmm what kind of timers are those on? They come on multiple times a day and can even power different sections of lawn. Also a great incognito way to bullshit people when asking about the timer I'm looking for with out the weird looks or them knowing it's for the weeds


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 3996240
> 
> Checked out those timers last night tty
> Says right in their manuals that they can be used for day/night or 24 hour. But can only be turned on/off once in a 24hour period.
> ...


Lawn irrigation timers are also 24 hour units.

There are digital timers that run programs weekly. If you can make your schedule come out to 168 hours, this could be an option.


----------



## SSGrower (Aug 17, 2017)

The shortend day is still on my radar for an arduino program, may have a chance to do something in a few months. It has worked well for me to replace basic timers with it, add some environmental control, and automated light cycles. Not a programmer by any means, i couldnt find an off the shelf option for what I wanted so.... necessity mother of invention.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 17, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> The shortend day is still on my radar for an arduino program, may have a chance to do something in a few months. It has worked well for me to replace basic timers with it, add some environmental control, and automated light cycles. Not a programmer by any means, i couldnt find an off the shelf option for what I wanted so.... necessity mother of invention.


This is a project I'd love to collaborate with you on, if you're game.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Lawn irrigation timers are also 24 hour units.
> 
> There are digital timers that run programs weekly. If you can make your schedule come out to 168 hours, this could be an option.


The harvest master pro controller would do it but it's $1000 for that kind of money I'd rather just stay home and flip manually lmao. 168 week hours is the thing I'm trying to shorten but it only works out one way using a regular 24hour digital timer.
At least with my wonky math skills.
If I use a 21 hour day or 8/13,9/12 then I would need an 8 day programable timer
Numbers give me a headache


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> This is a project I'd love to collaborate with you on, if you're game.


Gonna offer him rubber cheques too.
That's ok collaborate sounds dirty when u say it 

So what's an arduino anyway I'm behind in the times.


----------



## ANC (Aug 17, 2017)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AC-220V-240V-CN101A-Digital-Power-Programmable-Timer-Switch-Relay-16A-with-4pcs-15cm-5-9/32603853583.html?spm=2114.search0302.4.2.WJkuOp

I have a couple of these guys, it has 15 slots per day you could program, it could repeat daily, alternate days etc... very clever little thing and cheap on ebay.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Gonna offer him rubber cheques too.
> That's ok collaborate sounds dirty when u say it
> 
> So what's an arduino anyway I'm behind in the times.


It's a small computer on a PC board commonly used for hobbies and electronics. Raspberry pi is another similar device that is optimised for video.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ANC said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AC-220V-240V-CN101A-Digital-Power-Programmable-Timer-Switch-Relay-16A-with-4pcs-15cm-5-9/32603853583.html?spm=2114.search0302.4.2.WJkuOp
> 
> I have a couple of these guys, it has 15 slots per day you could program, it could repeat daily, alternate days etc... very clever little thing and cheap on ebay.


Crimp on connections tho
I'm not sure I'd know how to begin wiring that thing never mind programming it.
Maybe a simpleton like me is better to stick with my disposable push pin timers


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> It's a small computer on a PC board commonly used for hobbies and electronics. Raspberry pi is another similar device that is optimised for video.


Ok so basically it's a plc controller like my friend was talking about writing up a program for.
These talks always leave me wishing I was more of a nerd years ago and kept up with all this stuff.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

Ok so after spending the last half hour reading about them it looks like I'm going to be buying an arduino kit.
Not bad really $130 and you assemble it and can build it many ways.
So many possible functions and I can pretty much program it to do all that I was looking for and then some.
Got a few light build ideas in mind and this would certainly also help with that firing up the way I would like it to work.
Thanks guys for steering me in the direction


----------



## ANC (Aug 17, 2017)

It is very simple, two wires are basically the AC in and the other two prongs are the two sides of the actual switch so they would interrupt a wire leading to a light or a contactor if required.

Lol I'm too old for this new fandangled crap, I have a bunch of old PIC processors, slap something together in Assembly and make do.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

Been 30days already
Reveg plants have a few extra main top colas going.
And the multiple topping seems to have given me a good amount of colas.
Will be interesting to see how 5 do weight wise. 
Another 20-30 days we'll see I suppose


----------



## ANC (Aug 17, 2017)

I'd pull the big fan leaves right at the top.


----------



## ThcGuy (Aug 17, 2017)

Hmmm. Might have to try this re Veg thing. How much did you hack them up when you harvested the first time?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 17, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Hmmm. Might have to try this re Veg thing. How much did you hack them up when you harvested the first time?


I've never had good results...


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Hmmm. Might have to try this re Veg thing. How much did you hack them up when you harvested the first time?


I chopped everything over 12" from the pot.
Left all the leaves I possibly could.
And maybe 6-10 small lil popcorn branches that would have went in the trim bin anyway.

Put them in my tent back on my veg cycle for 47 days and they were 32" and bushy af.
If nothing else it's a great way to save a strain you didn't clone


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I've never had good results...


You didn't have good results with revegging?
I know you said u didn't have good results with glr either.


----------



## ANC (Aug 17, 2017)

I've had one girl go 11 months outdoors.


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## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ANC said:


> I've had one girl go 11 months outdoors.


11 months?
Where do u live in a cave in northern Alaska?
That seems like a ridiculous amount of time


----------



## ThcGuy (Aug 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I chopped everything over 12" from the pot.
> Left all the leaves I possibly could.
> And maybe 6-10 small lil popcorn branches that would have went in the trim bin anyway.
> 
> ...


I like the idea of keeping the plants around until I cure and weigh up each one and then keep the one that stands out as a mother plant. I have herd that sativas are harder than I indicas to reveg, any truth to this?


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> I like the idea of keeping the plants around until I cure and weigh up each one and then keep the one that stands out as a mother plant. I have herd that sativas are harder than I indicas to reveg, any truth to this?


To be completely honest these three were all hybrids but I'd say leaning more Indy but if anything I'd say the saty might take a bit longer and I'd leave a lil more foliage on it.
I left them In for the duration of my next round of flower but I could have clipped clones off them easily half way through.


----------



## ANC (Aug 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> 11 months?
> Where do u live in a cave in northern Alaska?
> That seems like a ridiculous amount of time


Lol, Africa. Where I stay winters are temperate. After flowering, shew grew some weird leaves for a while, and then when on with normal growth.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ANC said:


> Lol, Africa. Where I stay winters are temperate. After flowering, shew grew some weird leaves for a while, and then when on with normal growth.


Forgive my ignorance, my self centred thinking fails to recognize people do in fact live outside of North America sometimes.
When I picture Africa I think sun and humidity with little rain and damp am I way off? What kind of light hours do u get there in the different seasons?


----------



## ANC (Aug 17, 2017)

We have a wide variety of climates. It gets more muggy up towards Durban side in the north east, with drier conditions on the west coast due to the cold sea currents, I stay in wine country, so it is very green and pretty, a bit like France. Except we had a drought this year, we have never had water issues for all my life until now.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

Sounds awesome
So much of the world I would love to see and my fear of airplanes will forever stop me from seeing most of it.
A friend of mine goes to South Africa every summer. He met his wife there and her family is still there. Amazing photos they bring back every trip.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> You didn't have good results with revegging?
> I know you said u didn't have good results with glr either.


Yeah. Not sure why, other than that my veg goals are different than most; I'm looking for the plants to get tall and GLR wasn't good for that.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Sounds awesome
> So much of the world I would love to see and my fear of airplanes will forever stop me from seeing most of it.
> A friend of mine goes to South Africa every summer. He met his wife there and her family is still there. Amazing photos they bring back every trip.


Get a sailboat...


----------



## torontoke (Aug 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Get a sailboat...


As fun as sailboating the ocean sounds I'll take a hard pass on that one


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Aug 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Get a sailboat...


Sailing the Great Lakes would be scary enough in bad weather, I can just imagine in the middle of the ocean! Lol


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> As fun as sailboating the ocean sounds I'll take a hard pass on that one





GrowGorilla said:


> Sailing the Great Lakes would be scary enough in bad weather, I can just imagine in the middle of the ocean! Lol


Bad weather can be avoided with modern equipment and while the challenge is certainly great, so are the potential rewards.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 18, 2017)

Field trip


----------



## SSGrower (Aug 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Gonna offer him rubber cheques too.
> That's ok collaborate sounds dirty when u say it
> 
> So what's an arduino anyway I'm behind in the times.


They run about 20-30 bucks, with about another 50 - 100 you could pick up the other components you need (relays, microchips, other hardware, wifi if you want). Program in c++, counts time in seconds, so id essentially program a calendar to match what you want to do, personally instead of 3 eight hour cycles i think 2 with a 4 hr offset would be a bit easier to manage, and mught allow for one in veg while the other is flowering (traditional non gas light method).
Torontoke, take a look at what vegaswinner (go green led?) has done also look into the garduino. Also check youtube vids by aquaporn (now how dirty you feel?)
TT, happy to work with you and happy to share, i almost think you could eliminate the need for your chiller if things were scaled properly and maybe fewer watts in summer, more in winter so excess can heat house.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 18, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> They run about 20-30 bucks, with about another 50 - 100 you could pick up the other components you need (relays, microchips, other hardware, wifi if you want). Program in c++, counts time in seconds, so id essentially program a calendar to match what you want to do, personally instead of 3 eight hour cycles i think 2 with a 4 hr offset would be a bit easier to manage, and mught allow for one in veg while the other is flowering (traditional non gas light method).
> Torontoke, take a look at what vegaswinner (go green led?) has done also look into the garduino. Also check youtube vids by aquaporn (now how dirty you feel?)
> TT, happy to work with you and happy to share, i almost think you could eliminate the need for your chiller if things were scaled properly and maybe fewer watts in summer, more in winter so excess can heat house.


Thanks for taking the time to write all that out sir.
I appreciate the feedback and advice from everyone, and will be looking into this arduino business more when the time comes to scale up the grow again.

There are so many unknowns when it comes to light timing that I just want to try everything but with plant counts and other limitations right now I can only try so much.
Eventually I will know the exact yield value of every minute of light and can dial in and focus on exactly what works best for me.
The arduino could also come in handy for a light design I've been kicking around in my notebook with a rising and setting light peak period. I'll get more into that another time when I'm closer to building it.

No need for a chiller here either but once there's 3 or 4 more lights perhaps this will be the next hurdle again.


----------



## SSGrower (Aug 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> The arduino could also come in handy for a light design I've been kicking around in my notebook with a rising and setting light peak period. I'll get more into that another time when I'm closer to building it.


Been there done that, still doing it....multi day deminishing light transition (i can set the number of days to transition from veg to flower, again non glr technique so not sure how you could incorporate that) and i have what i call peak offset which i input the number of hours after the main light comes on to turn peak light on and this is also the number of hours to shut off the peak light beforemthe main light goes out. If you look at aquaporn, he uses the dimming control on the driver to simulate sunrise and sunset.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 18, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Been there done that, still doing it....multi day deminishing light transition (i can set the number of days to transition from veg to flower, again non glr technique so not sure how you could incorporate that) and i have what i call peak offset which i input the number of hours after the main light comes on to turn peak light on and this is also the number of hours to shut off the peak light beforemthe main light goes out. If you look at aquaporn, he uses the dimming control on the driver to simulate sunrise and sunset.


Well I'm glad my idea isn't as crazy as I first thought if someone else is doing it too.
I was thinking of building an 8 board light with 8 fr cobs. The cobs would fire up for 15minutes before the first boards and stay on. The first 4 boards fire up for 2 hours then all 8 for 4 and the red shut off. Last 2 hours the last 4 boards are on with the fr that stay on til 15 mins after all boards are off.
Confusing and tough to lay out but hopefully u can decipher the idea.
Still only 8 hours but with a gradual rise and set.


----------



## SSGrower (Aug 18, 2017)

With that number of components you will probably want to use something called I2c protocol (and a thinggy called a shift register), it will facilitate controlling 144 devices or more with a single arduino. Go through the adafruit tutorials too, this will take you time, but I'm confident you'll be able to do exactly what you want. Tricks will be to compartmentalize it so adjustments and troubleshooting are easy.


----------



## SSGrower (Aug 18, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Gonna offer him rubber cheques too.
> That's ok collaborate sounds dirty when u say it
> 
> So what's an arduino anyway I'm behind in the times.


A couple of those razors and a dimmer ought to do it.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 18, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> With that number of components you will probably want to use something called I2c protocol (and a thinggy called a shift register), it will facilitate controlling 144 devices or more with a single arduino. Go through the adafruit tutorials too, this will take you time, but I'm confident you'll be able to do exactly what you want. Tricks will be to compartmentalize it so adjustments and troubleshooting are easy.


Looks like I gotta lotta reading to do this weekend.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction sir


----------



## torontoke (Aug 18, 2017)

Did a few transplants today and I'm already in love with the Hindu hashplant and wishing I popped more of them.
Bushy and already smells dank
 
More cowbell
 
Dank Sinatra
 
 

Only 3 sick looking solos left they got a week to turn around or get chucked


----------



## torontoke (Aug 19, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Aug 19, 2017)

Took a few pics as the light was going off 
The reveg grandpasbreath is going to put out pretty good this run.
Tuff to tell from the angle of the pics but she is 40+" and has a few wands forming

The false teeth is a frosty bitch
Taking a pic to show just how much is tough with the light on
 
Space monkey reveg is filling in all the early stretch


----------



## hillbill (Aug 20, 2017)

All this complexity is just not me! However, the lights have been at 10 1/4 on and 13 3/4 dark for two months with excellent results! No decrease in yield nor in potency. Just less electric. And my plants are finishing faster. This boy is done with 12/12.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 20, 2017)

hillbill said:


> All this complexity is just not me! However, the lights have been at 10 1/4 on and 13 3/4 dark for two months with excellent results! No decrease in yield nor in potency. Just less electric. And my plants are finishing faster. This boy is done with 12/12.


That's awesome hillbill
I'm glad you got a worthwhile harvest and quicker to boot.


----------



## hillbill (Aug 20, 2017)

torontoke said:


> That's awesome hillbill
> I'm glad you got a worthwhile harvest and quicker to boot.


If I hadn't stumbled across this thread I never would have tried as short of lights on time and that would have been my loss. Thank you!


----------



## torontoke (Aug 20, 2017)

hillbill said:


> If I hadn't stumbled across this thread I never would have tried as short of lights on time and that would have been my loss. Thank you!


No need to thank me sir
I didn't invent the method 
It is reassuring that my journal has "helped" anyone besides me.
A lot of good growers have offered helpful tips and opinions on here and we have all learned as we went.
Cheers bill
Enjoy the fruits of labour


----------



## j.t.1986 (Aug 23, 2017)

actually i tried a 10/14 light schedule this round as well with inspiration from this thread. the results are in line with hillbill's, yield doesnt seem to be effected much, and i think i saved about a week.One of my starfighter f2/lbl's are on track to be plucked at 50 days fully mature.

Keep up the great work!


----------



## torontoke (Aug 23, 2017)

j.t.1986 said:


> actually i tried a 10/14 light schedule this round as well with inspiration from this thread. the results are in line with hillbill's, yield doesnt seem to be effected much, and i think i saved about a week.One of my starfighter f2/lbl's are on track to be plucked at 50 days fully mature.
> 
> Keep up the great work!


That's awesome to hear
Thanks for stopping in and letting us know.
50 days is about my new "standard" aswell.
Glad to hear so many people are seeing good results


----------



## torontoke (Aug 23, 2017)

Feeling like I got kicked in the gut today.
The more cowbell plant I had outdoor and posted a few pics of had to be removed today.
Well over 7' tall 5-6' wide and more balls then ive ever seen on one plant.
Couldn't risk all the others so he had to go.
The rest are all female so not that upset about it.
Space monkey is looking decent
 
Tiger mountain
 
Deadhead x lbl


----------



## torontoke (Aug 23, 2017)

Cabinet temps must have dropped there's a fair bit more frost showing then when I left


----------



## farmerfischer (Aug 23, 2017)

Nice'n healthy tt.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 23, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> Nice'n healthy tt.


Thank you sir


----------



## farmerfischer (Aug 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Feeling like I got kicked in the gut today.
> The more cowbell plant I had outdoor and posted a few pics of had to be removed today.
> Well over 7' tall 5-6' wide and more balls then ive ever seen on one plant.
> Couldn't risk all the others so he had to go.
> ...


 I love nature pics.


----------



## zoic (Aug 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> more balls then ive ever seen on one plant.


I had 3 males this round but one looked like it had enough balls to propagate an entire
LP crop, which of course led to _events happening in my mind_. 

So do lower temps usually equal more frost? What sort of range are we talking?


----------



## mistermagoo (Aug 23, 2017)

I read the first 25 pages and said wait, I'm still in 2015 post?!??

Good read, cool info thanks a lot, good to see you're still going strong


----------



## torontoke (Aug 23, 2017)

zoic said:


> I had 3 males this round but one looked like it had enough balls to propagate an entire
> LP crop, which of course led to _events happening in my mind_.
> 
> So do lower temps usually equal more frost? What sort of range are we talking?


You took me far to literally sir
It was a play on words with "frost"
My temps have been fairly steady since I switched the light out.
76-82 almost all the time.



mistermagoo said:


> I read the first 25 pages and said wait, I'm still in 2015 post?!??
> 
> Good read, cool info thanks a lot, good to see you're still going strong


Thank you sir for stopping by I usually tell people to ignore the first year and a half or until I switched to led.
Seemed to change my dli and bring yields closer to par for 12/12


----------



## mistermagoo (Aug 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> You took me far to literally sir
> It was a play on words with "frost"
> My temps have been fairly steady since I switched the light out.
> 76-82 almost all the time.
> ...


I'll have to cycle back and give it a good read, I went led 2 years ago and will never go back ... no temperature isssues alone are a godsend , always consistent environment now.

Very intriguing info this thread, and your current outdoor girl , she looks beautiful in the woods , feel we "forget" as a solely indoor grower that these plants actually come from outside ! Who would of thought !

Hello all, nice to meet you guys


----------



## torontoke (Aug 23, 2017)

mistermagoo said:


> I'll have to cycle back and give it a good read, I went led 2 years ago and will never go back ... no temperature isssues alone are a godsend , always consistent environment now.
> 
> Very intriguing info this thread, and your current outdoor girl , she looks beautiful in the woods , feel we "forget" as a solely indoor grower that these plants actually come from outside ! Who would of thought !
> 
> Hello all, nice to meet you guys


For me it was kind of the polar opposite 
I started as an outdoor guy and never really thought about growing indoor.
Seemed a waste of money since the sun was free and the plants were three times the size. Wasn't until a few fields were ripped and one was trap camera'd and obviously compromised that I decided to try my hand at indoor.

It's been an interesting adventure with lots of twists n turns.
Always seems like there's lots to learn and cool things that make indoor more challenging.
The fact that the bud is far better in my opinion is simply a bonus


----------



## mistermagoo (Aug 23, 2017)

Do you find that different strains perform better under the lighting schedule or indica or sativa dominant strains?


----------



## farmerfischer (Aug 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> For me it was kind of the polar opposite
> I started as an outdoor guy and never really thought about growing indoor.
> Seemed a waste of money since the sun was free and the plants were three times the size. Wasn't until a few fields were ripped and one was trap camera'd and obviously compromised that I decided to try my hand at indoor.
> 
> ...


Agreed .. Nothing beats the Sun but rippers, cops and hunters those guys are a Bitch.. And growing indoors gives you way more control of the outcome of quality one can achieve and its fun trying different things even out of the box things..


----------



## torontoke (Aug 23, 2017)

mistermagoo said:


> Do you find that different strains perform better under the lighting schedule or indica or sativa dominant strains?


I'm more of an indica fan
And it suits me fine that the Indy dom plants stack node like a mf under glr and get fat in flower. But reduced hours can easily chop a week or two off of those long running sativas that I've all but given up on.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 23, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> Agreed .. Nothing beats the Sun but rippers, cops and hunters those guys are a Bitch.. And growing indoors gives you way more control of the outcome of quality one can achieve and its fun trying different things even out of the box things..


Yes sir
And those out of the box things can be surprising. If I listened to all the nay Sayers 
Then I would have never bothered trying anything. I can't comment on outdoor down south because I'm up here where we get one short ass season that never seems long enough and therefore mediocre imho bud


----------



## farmerfischer (Aug 23, 2017)

Yeah if I can get past the third week of September I'm lucky. Very short here as well ,but my fingers are crossed that we make it to the second week of October or longer.. Like last year... 
It was you and someone else that was running the 8 on cycle and seeing this pushed me to try 10 /14 and lower cost and carbon footprint. When I have the extra income I'm going to make the switch to cobs or something similar .


----------



## torontoke (Aug 23, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> Yeah if I can get past the third week of September I'm lucky. Very short here as well ,but my fingers are crossed that we make it to the second week of October or longer.. Like last year...
> It was you and someone else that was running the 8 on cycle and seeing this pushed me to try 10 /14 and lower cost and carbon footprint. When I have the extra income I'm going to make the switch to cobs or something similar .


You won't regret switching to led.
The heat savings alone make it worth it.
When I tell people I flower my cabinet with 180watts they almost all laugh and think I'm joking.


----------



## farmerfischer (Aug 23, 2017)

In the winter heat is fine but as soon as it warms up I stop the indoor because of the extra cost with the a/c. 
If I could cut down to 400 watts and not suffer any yield loss it would be awesome.. Some day I WILL make the change, Its a must ..


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> In the winter heat is fine but as soon as it warms up I stop the indoor because of the extra cost with the a/c.
> If I could cut down to 400 watts and not suffer any yield loss it would be awesome.. Some day I WILL make the change, Its a must ..


I tell people they'll need somewhere between 55-60% of the watts to achieve similar yields as they're used to from HPS.

The real reason to do it is better quality.


----------



## farmerfischer (Aug 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I tell people they'll need somewhere between 55-60% of the watts to achieve similar yields as they're used to from HPS.
> 
> The real reason to do it is better quality.


So I should look to get 600 to 700 watts to replace two 600 watt hps/mh. Lights?
Like 3 200watt drivers?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2017)

farmerfischer said:


> So I should look to get 600 to 700 watts to replace two 600 watt hps/mh. Lights?
> Like 3 200watt drivers?


Maybe 750W if you like pushing them hard.

Run your temps in the mid 80s, too.

Spread your LED lights out, as well; some of the advantage comes from better light distribution vs one or two point sources.


----------



## mistermagoo (Aug 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Maybe 750W if you like pushing them hard.
> 
> Run your temps in the mid 80s, too.
> 
> Spread your LED lights out, as well; some of the advantage comes from better light distribution vs one or two point sources.


Why does running temps in the mid 80s benefit with led?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2017)

mistermagoo said:


> Why does running temps in the mid 80s benefit with led?


HID lighting puts out a lot of infrared light which is not seen but felt as heat. Much of the reason LED lighting is more efficient is due to the fact that they emit very little infrared light, so to help the plants transpire water and draw up nutrients it's helpful to run the space warmer. This saves even more on cooling costs since the space doesn't need to be chilled as much for best results.


----------



## hillbill (Aug 24, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> HID lighting puts out a lot of infrared light which is not seen but felt as heat. Much of the reason LED lighting is more efficient is due to the fact that they emit very little infrared light, so to help the plants transpire water and draw up nutrients it's helpful to run the space warmer. This saves even more on cooling costs since the space doesn't need to be chilled as much for best results.


Keeping temps up in cool months is an overlooked part of growing with leds. I now duct air from floor vent into tent. Leave it the same now with A/C in the summer. Drainage is also in need of an increase with leds in whatever form. Cold roots cause all sorts of troubles and cold wet roots are horrid.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 24, 2017)

Here's a group shot from today.
I moved the hinduhp and field trip into the front centre spots.
 
They will need some time to stretch out and I can hopefully remove their high chairs.
Starting to really smell funky now.

The false teeth has a sweet fruity scent that I can't quite describe yet.
Not the biggest buds on her but still yummy looking.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 24, 2017)

The back left corner (tallest) is the space monkey reveg and the back right corner (fattest) is the grandpasbreath reveg.

Sm 
 
Gb 
 
ft2


----------



## ThcGuy (Aug 24, 2017)

Looking great in there!


----------



## torontoke (Aug 24, 2017)

ThcGuy said:


> Looking great in there!


Thank you sir
Smelling pretty good too
Fingers crossed it smokes even better


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 24, 2017)

hillbill said:


> Keeping temps up in cool months is an overlooked part of growing with leds. I now duct air from floor vent into tent. Leave it the same now with A/C in the summer. Drainage is also in need of an increase with leds in whatever form. Cold roots cause all sorts of troubles and cold wet roots are horrid.


Cold wet roots are great in deep water culture!


----------



## torontoke (Aug 24, 2017)

Self inflicted seed popping timeout has begun. This is ridiculous lmao


----------



## zoic (Aug 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Self inflicted seed popping timeout has begun.


Hahahaha, it may not show in that picture, but I can see the uncontrollable smile on your face, cuz you is luvin it, LOL.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 25, 2017)

zoic said:


> Hahahaha, it may not show in that picture, but I can see the uncontrollable smile on your face, cuz you is luvin it, LOL.


Naaaa even I know it's overboard
Well over 25 plants in there
That's three runs of flower in my small cab.
These things will be huge by then

I think I might be genetic drunk or at the least a hoarder


----------



## torontoke (Aug 25, 2017)

Did some snipping and tying in the veg tent.
Needs another couple days worth I'm sure but things are progressing along.
Pulled a few plants out and took some pics to show what kind of growth I'm seeing with these pcb boards and the glr light cycle.
Space monkey
 
Field trip


Dank Sinatra


----------



## Buba Blend (Aug 25, 2017)

Great stuff! 
Paged through as much as I could mostly enjoying the harvest pics.
Great crystal. I was going to keep my lights at 11.5/12.5.
Now I'm thinking of knocking off an hour each week in the last 2 or 3 weeks.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 25, 2017)

Buba Blend said:


> Great stuff!
> Paged through as much as I could mostly enjoying the harvest pics.
> Great crystal. I was going to keep my lights at 11.5/12.5.
> Now I'm thinking of knocking off an hour each week in the last 2 or 3 weeks.


If you do and u notice something either positive or negative please come back and let me know here or in the reduced hours thread I just started.
I want to get as much info about what worked vs didn't out there so no one needs to just take me for my word.
If we can compile enough data about all the details we may change the way some people think.

Edit:
Almost forgot
Thanks for dropping by and having interest.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Naaaa even I know it's overboard
> Well over 25 plants in there
> That's three runs of flower in my small cab.
> These things will be huge by then
> ...


Nah. You just need more growing space.

That just turns you into a growing addict, though...


----------



## torontoke (Aug 25, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Nah. You just need more growing space.
> 
> That just turns you into a growing addict, though...


Hahaha
Yeah too late for that


----------



## GroErr (Aug 25, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Nah. You just need more growing space.
> 
> That just turns you into a growing addict, though...


Don't we all, for sure. New grow space fills faster than a garage ffs!


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Don't we all, for sure. New grow space fills faster than a garage ffs!


Oh, you've peeked in my garage, have you?


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Hahaha
> Yeah too late for that


I'm suffering serious withdrawals, myself...


----------



## torontoke (Aug 25, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm suffering serious withdrawals, myself...


I could have never done it
I'd be back to outdoor fields at minimum

Kudos to u tho for having the will power


----------



## torontoke (Aug 26, 2017)

Wow
I'm pumped about the turn around in the veg tent.
Idk about all the numbers and details but these lights are kicking ass now.
Only got about 50-60w to each board and can't imagine how bright they would be with 100+
Think the bottle neck in my perpetual has been fixed. Should be way bigger plants now with more tops from here on out.
Exciting times!
Also called health Canada yesterday afternoon and apparently my lic has been approved and should be in the mail shortly so that's reassuring. Only held my paperwork hostage since march.

Got the renewal ready to send in the second it touches down.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 26, 2017)

Have a weird trifoliate space monkey that is showing some mutant traits.

I'll leave it for now and see if it grows out of it.
  
The bodhi testers are doing ok


----------



## torontoke (Aug 27, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Aug 27, 2017)

Pulled all the plants out today to do some trimming and cleanup.
Most were flopping around and needed some support.
Took a few pics and thought I'd throw them up.
This is the false teeth plant that is roughly 40" tall and smelling sweet 
Here's the grandpasbreath reveg for everyone that says it's a waste of time 
She's grown back a few extra buds


----------



## torontoke (Aug 28, 2017)

_Had to go back and do some day counting to see where these are at and 6/8 are on day 40 so another week or two yet.
Going to give the bodhi testers two weeks to get some legs then I think I'm going to up pot everything in the tent refill the cabinet and flower both the cab and the tent simultaneously.
Might try my hand at taking cuts off of everything first but with my luck who knows.

Should be interesting to see how those lights flower with such low wattage. Worst case scenario I'll order a bigger driver and diy a heatsink _


----------



## torontoke (Aug 28, 2017)

Gotta love being able to spend some time getting your hands dirty.
Pulled everything out of my veg tent and cleaned it out proper.
Chopped the more cowbell reveg....was depressing me to watch it suffer so much. Thing just didn't want to live.
Was also able to chop 4 plants showing early male flower formations.
Still probably my favourite perk of glr is the early sexing so less time gets wasted.
Up potted another dank Sinatra and think that cuts will be taken this time and a monocrop of ds is in the near future.
I just love the giant Jurassic leathery looking Indy leaves.

The bubba testers got a light shot of root excel and everyone else got some sensi grow and a light Epsom foliar.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 29, 2017)

One day and a noticeable amount of growth.

 
Lc

Lc front gpb in the back
 
Ft front left and back mid
Spacemonkey is the tower
 
Hindu and field trip are just starting to show now so hopefully females


----------



## GroErr (Aug 29, 2017)

Looking dank in there, too bad you're losing so much weight to the lower light cycle times  (kidding, really!)


----------



## torontoke (Aug 29, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Looking dank in there, too bad you're losing so much weight to the lower light cycle times  (kidding, really!)


Thanks bud
It's all imaginary like the voices in my head.
Only gonna be a few joints worth


----------



## whitebb2727 (Aug 29, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Cold wet roots are great in deep water culture!


That's true in soil to an extent. I don't like my root zone lower than the 60 degree range. I had to put insulated panels under my pots in the basement or I get weird problems.


----------



## ttystikk (Aug 29, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> That's true in soil to an extent. I don't like my root zone lower than the 60 degree range. I had to put insulated panels under my pots in the basement or I get weird problems.


I feel the need to qualify my statement; I was happy if the RDWC water was 65 at least once a day, usually right at the end of the dark cycle. It could then warm up into the low 70s by the end of the light cycle, which certainly didn't hurt growth.

In fact, I am of the opinion that the daily swing was beneficial.


----------



## torontoke (Aug 30, 2017)

Had to cull the Hindu hp this morning
Shitty buzz
Went and checked them this morning and he was leaned back flexing his newly formed balls. 
The field trip looks like it is a girl but I shouldn't count my chickens just yet.
So now there's room for one at the inn.

My favourite part....deciding what to put in next to replace the hhp 
May just pick the biggest in the tent but it seems to easy


----------



## torontoke (Aug 30, 2017)

After doing a few more transplants and some shuffling I couldn't resist this branchy more cowbell.
Actually reminds me a lot of the reveg'd one I just chopped the other day.
In she goes


----------



## torontoke (Sep 1, 2017)

Went on culling spree in the veg tent today.
Had one space monkey and two more cowbell showing male.
One of the mc was full on herm had female preflower on top but had balls forming mid stem.
One lucky charm and dank Sinatra also got chopped.
Strange how quickly these plants are mature enough to show sex.
Able to spread things out a lil better in the tent and pay closer attention to what's left.
I'll take cuts off everything next week for safe keeping in case I find a keeper.
Shouldn't be hard to find a few worth keeping out of 30plus

We shall see


----------



## torontoke (Sep 1, 2017)

Space monkey 
 
Lc
  
Ft


----------



## torontoke (Sep 1, 2017)

Self imposed bean break is over I managed a lil over a week lmao so since a fellow member was kind enough to send some gifts I couldn't resist.

5 Sakura f2
4 gg4 x lbl s1
3 ecsd x dd 
1 Hindu hp went into paper towel.

Everything in the tent got topped today and a solid feed. Hopefully they come back even bushier next week.


----------



## SSGrower (Sep 2, 2017)

working on the 20 hour day arduino clock and though I am still confident it can be done....it will need to be done by someone who knows how to use a data array. Basically need to set up a calendar for days that are 72000 seconds long, I fell asleep 3 times already today trying to figure it out, I give.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 2, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> working on the 20 hour day arduino clock and though I am still confident it can be done....it will need to be done by someone who knows how to use a data array. Basically need to set up a calendar for days that are 72000 seconds long, I fell asleep 3 times already today trying to figure it out, I give.


U put forward a valiant effort I'm sure.
I've been told by a few people just how big of a task the programming of those things can be. 
Would be a trade off of programming labour versus cost to just set up a small plc.
Either way I'm sure there's an even simpler way to do it and I've got time for such an idea to present itself.
Thanks for letting me know tho and saving me from buying something to break in a frustrated rage.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 3, 2017)




----------



## ttystikk (Sep 4, 2017)

It's getting into September. Shouldn't those girls be flowering by now?


----------



## torontoke (Sep 4, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> It's getting into September. Shouldn't those girls be flowering by now?


----------



## OrganicGorilla (Sep 4, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 4004808


I'm hoping for a nice October as well. Mine are at the same stage.


----------



## SSGrower (Sep 4, 2017)

torontoke said:


> U put forward a valiant effort I'm sure.
> I've been told by a few people just how big of a task the programming of those things can be.
> Would be a trade off of programming labour versus cost to just set up a small plc.
> Either way I'm sure there's an even simpler way to do it and I've got time for such an idea to present itself.
> Thanks for letting me know tho and saving me from buying something to break in a frustrated rage.


Valiant my ass!

Self serving is more like it.

The idea is still rattling around, Id really like to experiment with length of day.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 4, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Valiant my ass!
> 
> Self serving is more like it.
> 
> The idea is still rattling around, Id really like to experiment with length of day.


Can't say that I blame u for liking the idea I think it makes a lot of sense too.
Think it would speed them up?


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2017)

Well today is day 50 so time to wipe it all down and start over.
Super indica run number 1 
 
3 dank Sinatra
2lucky charms
2more cowbell
1 field trip

Crossing my fingers for at least 6 females and hopefully a dank Sinatra male.
I'm 80% sure the biggest ds is a male but we shall see.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2017)

Well in keeping with my open honest approach I noticed two things when chopping the revegged plants.
Firstly I should have done much much more defoliation and lollipoping to clean up the lowers. Think ten times the amount of bs fluff bud at the bottoms.
However one perk to revegging that I never even considered was that these plants being as old as the are have self seeded some of their lowers. Hopefully that means some grandpasbreath and space monkey s1's after they dry n cure.
Should come in handy since I finally cut them both down for good.
This time space monkey yielded a bit better but still no where near as much as gpb or even ft.


----------



## ANC (Sep 5, 2017)

lol it's spring here and mine are ahead of yours....
Ready to put the next batch outdoors.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2017)

ANC said:


> lol it's spring here and mine are ahead of yours....
> Ready to put the next batch outdoors.


Don't be shy to rub it in!
Canada sucks for outdoor
Actually I'd say North America sucks for outdoor but I'm sure there's a few folks doing alright with it.

Besides I get a pretty consistent indoor every 50 or less days


----------



## ANC (Sep 5, 2017)

Lucky you, our indoor harvest is almost 90 days out, although I am having a fresh cured sample from one of our group's other grows tonight.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2017)

ANC said:


> Lucky you, our indoor harvest is almost 90 days out, although I am having a fresh cured sample from one of our group's other grows tonight.


Need to find yourself some shorter running strains. Unless of course your happy with those. Your a much more patient person then I either way.


----------



## ANC (Sep 5, 2017)

Yeah, it is the first time our group has worked together, there were some teething issues that slowed things down.
Next batch will be 8 weeks. We just do cheese.


----------



## SSGrower (Sep 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Can't say that I blame u for liking the idea I think it makes a lot of sense too.
> Think it would speed them up?


Kind of, I think....mostly I think it would alow the plant to be more effecient, Do you notice faster veg using glr?

I havve been thinking of a 20 hour day 16/4 and 10/10. Less than 16 hrs seemed to be the bottom edge for veg but having then ability to shorten the night might alow for further reduction without going into flower, possibly resulting in fewer kw•hr used.

I ran at night last winter and it sucked, more like work than a hobby because of timing. The rotating day night would be tough to get used to.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 5, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Kind of, I think....mostly I think it would alow the plant to be more effecient, Do you notice faster veg using glr?
> 
> I havve been thinking of a 20 hour day 16/4 and 10/10. Less than 16 hrs seemed to be the bottom edge for veg but having then ability to shorten the night might alow for further reduction without going into flower, possibly resulting in fewer kw•hr used.
> 
> I ran at night last winter and it sucked, more like work than a hobby because of timing. The rotating day night would be tough to get used to.


I'm not sure I'd ever say a faster veg.
I've never done a clone of the same strain under each method to gauge the differences.
I will say that the tighter nodes and early preflowering seems to cause the transition from veg to flower to be noticeably quicker.
Some strains can take up to a week to start flowering. I notice it in 3days on average.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> Kind of, I think....mostly I think it would alow the plant to be more effecient, Do you notice faster veg using glr?
> 
> I havve been thinking of a 20 hour day 16/4 and 10/10. Less than 16 hrs seemed to be the bottom edge for veg but having then ability to shorten the night might alow for further reduction without going into flower, possibly resulting in fewer kw•hr used.
> 
> I ran at night last winter and it sucked, more like work than a hobby because of timing. The rotating day night would be tough to get used to.


That could be solved with a system that waters automatically, like RDWC.


----------



## SSGrower (Sep 6, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> That could be solved with a system that waters automatically, like RDWC.


You're seeing it from a technical perspective, I was more missing time in the garden


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 6, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> You're seeing it from a technical perspective, I was more missing time in the garden


It's been too long since you've stopped by, bro.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 8, 2017)

Dank Sinatra
Had to pull this guy today.
But I took 3 clones in case he's the only boy.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

Been paying more n more attention to topping and trying to improve yield with extra tops and forcing side growth mixed with a lil mild bondage.
From every single pic I've ever seen of bodhi's space monkey they are usually single medium large cola plants. Even my last runs reveg focused on the lone towering main.
This sm has been topped probably 6times and is only 11" tall but looks like it will have more then one cola.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

More cowbell getting stretchy


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

The current canopy
Lucky charms is still showing some rust spots but is getting better instead of worse.
She's my last soil plant and obviously doesn't like my one feed suits all grow method. She has probably 3 weeks left at least.
Still a few of unknown gender but I've got my fingers crossed


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

Here's a dry nug of false teeth.
Going into jars tomorrow to hopefully cure.
 
Has a cinnamon like smell but slight fruity skunk smoke should taste good either way.


----------



## mr. childs (Sep 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Been paying more n more attention to topping and trying to improve yield with extra tops and forcing side growth mixed with a lil mild bondage.
> From every single pic I've ever seen of bodhi's space monkey they are usually single medium large cola plants. Even my last runs reveg focused on the lone towering main.
> This sm has been topped probably 6times and is only 11" tall but looks like it will have more then one cola.
> View attachment 4007540 View attachment 4007541


i love the wild bush looks from revegging...


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i love the wild bush looks from revegging...


That thing is only a month and a half old. Came out of my 2nd pack of seed.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Been paying more n more attention to topping and trying to improve yield with extra tops and forcing side growth mixed with a lil mild bondage.
> From every single pic I've ever seen of bodhi's space monkey they are usually single medium large cola plants. Even my last runs reveg focused on the lone towering main.
> This sm has been topped probably 6times and is only 11" tall but looks like it will have more then one cola.
> View attachment 4007540 View attachment 4007541


Topping and training is not very difficult and most strains respond very well to it.

A strain that really wants to make just one cola is considered to have high apical dominance, like a lodgepole pine tree. Topping them will definitely get them to spread out.

When growing Flatlander style, I like to top the first time when there just 4 good nodes. Clean the plant up over the next few days so it grows just those four side branches and then when they get big enough, top them all again at the same height. Clean each side branch, or meristem, up so it only has 4 good nodes.

This transforms the plant's structure and gives it a much better shape for a horizontal grow under artificial light. This is almost always the best way to achieve maximum yields in a horizontal setup.

A vertical SCRoG is trained in a similar fashion, obviously with a few differences to accommodate the vertical nature of the setup.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2017)

I haven't mentioned any of this before because I've found that breeders want to let the plant express itself naturally so they can judge growth characteristics and structure.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

Thanks tty 
I don't consider myself a breeder at all but I do like to get a look at what the plant wants to naturally do and I'm still not sold on topping adding weight.
Topping without enough extra veg time seems to be your single cola yield divided by number of tops.
I'm positive with enough extra veg time it's certainly worthwhile but until I see some documented side by sides idk.
As usual I appreciate you chiming in and offering the topping tips.


----------



## GroErr (Sep 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks tty
> I don't consider myself a breeder at all but I do like to get a look at what the plant wants to naturally do and I'm still not sold on topping adding weight.
> Topping without enough extra veg time seems to be your single cola yield divided by number of tops.
> I'm positive with enough extra veg time it's certainly worthwhile but until I see some documented side by sides idk.
> As usual I appreciate you chiming in and offering the topping tips.


I agree, I used to FIM all my plants but found the same thing, no real gain overall imo. If I need to try and manage one that's growing the main straight up I'll super crop it instead. When possible, I do prefer the first run from seed au naturel to see what the structure is like naturally.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks tty
> I don't consider myself a breeder at all but I do like to get a look at what the plant wants to naturally do and I'm still not sold on topping adding weight.
> Topping without enough extra veg time seems to be your single cola yield divided by number of tops.
> I'm positive with enough extra veg time it's certainly worthwhile but until I see some documented side by sides idk.
> As usual I appreciate you chiming in and offering the topping tips.


The way the technique adds yield is by getting more of the plant's growing mass into the ideal distance range from the light source. It makes a bigger difference with point sources like HID lamps than with LED arrays.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The way the technique adds yield is by getting more of the plant's growing mass into the ideal distance range from the light source. It makes a bigger difference with point sources like HID lamps than with LED arrays.


Well I guess I'm in the greater minority because so far my experience has shown me that yield is most attributed to root mass. The size of roots can only support and flower so much bud.
Seems more of a personal choice to me of do u want to trim a 100gram cola or 100 single gram ones.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Well I guess I'm in the greater minority because so far my experience has shown me that yield is most attributed to root mass. The size of roots can only support and flower so much bud.
> Seems more of a personal choice to me of do u want to trim a 100gram cola or 100 single gram ones.


There are so many factors it can be difficult to sort out which one is the greatest contributor or limit.

I firmly believe more testing is in order to be able to qualify and quantify the effects of each of these variables.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> There are so many factors it can be difficult to sort out which one is the greatest contributor or limit.
> 
> I firmly believe more testing is in order to be able to qualify and quantify the effects of each of these variables.


I think you are def right.
If only someone would get to tracking all the real data.
Imagine knowing exactly what the wattage per gal should equal. Would eliminate a lot of the guesswork and help nail down plant counts for a lot of people.
I know I'm just medicated and riffing out loud.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I think you are def right.
> If only someone would get to tracking all the real data.
> Imagine knowing exactly what the wattage per gal should equal. Would eliminate a lot of the guesswork and help nail down plant counts for a lot of people.
> I know I'm just medicated and riffing out loud.


I know a lot of guys are happy with one zip or gallon of substrate- but I've already done over 5oz/gal.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I know a lot of guys are happy with one zip or gallon of substrate- but I've already done over 5oz/gal.


I don't doubt it for a second


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I don't doubt it for a second


Here's the weird part; I'm confident I can do it again anytime I want, but I still don't know why it works!


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Here's the weird part; I'm confident I can do it again anytime I want, but I still don't know why it works!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 4007935


LOL story of my life, right here!


----------



## torontoke (Sep 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> LOL story of my life, right here!


Lol mine too sir


----------



## torontoke (Sep 10, 2017)

Happy to say my field trip plants have finally stiffened up. I had a pipe cleaner ring around these to keep em upright.
Now they are like bamboo shoots.
Sort of topped the way tty explained. These were done on the 2nd 4th and 6th node.


Field trip is gsc forum cut x sunshine daydream


----------



## mr. childs (Sep 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I know a lot of guys are happy with one zip or gallon of substrate- but I've already done over 5oz/gal.


damn you, now we all have to see what honestly can be achieved. people thought i was crazy when i tried to do a full run in the 1 liter airpots, and i thought did something spectacular by yielding an ounce & change


----------



## torontoke (Sep 10, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> damn you, now we all have to see what honestly can be achieved. people thought i was crazy when i tried to do a full run in the 1 liter airpots, and i thought did something spectacular by yielding an ounce & change


An oz per gal is good
Once the optimum cycle is reached tho with the help of automation and technology who knows how much is possible.
There has to be a limit but how do u find it?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> damn you, now we all have to see what honestly can be achieved. people thought i was crazy when i tried to do a full run in the 1 liter airpots, and i thought did something spectacular by yielding an ounce & change





torontoke said:


> An oz per gal is good
> Once the optimum cycle is reached tho with the help of automation and technology who knows how much is possible.
> There has to be a limit but how do u find it?


Veg, veg, veg and veg some more;
 this one came out to 25oz. That's a standard 5 gallon bucket.


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## torontoke (Sep 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Veg, veg, veg and veg some more;
> View attachment 4008449 this one came out to 25oz. That's a standard 5 gallon bucket.


How long to veg something like that?
Sort of exactly my point about veg time equaling the extra yield verse just multiple tops


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> How long to veg something like that?
> Sort of exactly my point about veg time equaling the extra yield verse just multiple tops


6 months total from day of cloning to chop day.

Wasn't gonna happen without careful training and topping tho, so I'm pretty sure they work hand in hand.


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## torontoke (Sep 10, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> 6 months total from day of cloning to chop day.
> 
> Wasn't gonna happen without careful training and topping tho, so I'm pretty sure they work hand in hand.


I'm sure there is a lot of factors all working together.
So that's roughly 4months of veg?
And the screen was full pre flip


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm sure there is a lot of factors all working together.
> So that's roughly 4months of veg?
> And the screen was full pre flip


I don't like to count the first two weeks in the cloning tray as 'veg', but that's a minor quibble.

The trellis is mostly full at flip. There's a bit of room left for stretch.


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## mr. childs (Sep 10, 2017)

that was my thought, to veg for 6 months @ 24/0 and just prune constantly
to essentially have spring for six months


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> that was my thought, to veg for 6 months @ 24/0 and just prune constantly
> to essentially have spring for six months


I find 3 1/2 months is sufficient.


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## mr. childs (Sep 10, 2017)

remember people doing the party cup grows, as the craft advances will we all now try get 5 oz's from a 1 gallon by vegging at 24/0 for 3 months then flowering for 8 hours on 16 hours off? extreme possibilities


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## torontoke (Sep 10, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> remember people doing the party cup grows, as the craft advances will we all now try get 5 oz's from a 1 gallon by vegging at 24/0 for 3 months then flowering for 8 hours on 16 hours off? extreme possibilities


Extreme possibilities and very limited documented attempts.
Probably the worst thing prohibition has done is stifle research and people attempting things. 
Because of the legalities everyone is dead set on using the tried and true methods.
Hard to blame em really


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> remember people doing the party cup grows, as the craft advances will we all now try get 5 oz's from a 1 gallon by vegging at 24/0 for 3 months then flowering for 8 hours on 16 hours off? extreme possibilities


Most of my veg ran 6 on/2 off.


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## torontoke (Sep 11, 2017)

Lucky charms lower is making walking away from pollen chucking hard.
This might get revegged and hit with lc and Sinatra pollen.


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## torontoke (Sep 11, 2017)

Lc day 40ish


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Well I guess I'm in the greater minority because so far my experience has shown me that yield is most attributed to root mass. The size of roots can only support and flower so much bud.
> Seems more of a personal choice to me of do u want to trim a 100gram cola or 100 single gram ones.


That's mostly true.

I've found in my experience that no matter the technique yield is dependent on root mass and veg time. 

With topping and anything similar doesn't yield more in the same veg time.

All it does is change the ratio of buds you get.

A single cola plant will have one large bud, a number of medium buds and a lot of small ones.

Top it and you get two main colas slightly smaller, even more medium and a lot more smaller.

If that makes sense.

Now I have grown scrog with a lot of tops. It yields more but you have to veg longer.


Oh and I put some rku and lando cross in solo cups.


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## torontoke (Sep 11, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> That's mostly true.
> 
> I've found in my experience that no matter the technique yield is dependent on root mass and veg time.
> 
> ...


Thanks ebb for mostly agreeing with me lol
Hope you have some luck In that hunt....


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## whitebb2727 (Sep 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks ebb for mostly agreeing with me lol
> Hope you have some luck In that hunt....


Lol. Yea. I agree. Don't know why I said mostly. 

It all evens out in the end. Veg a couple plants for a long time or grow a bunch with little veg time. 

There is only so much a given space can provide.

I will enjoy the hunt. I like hunting of all sorts. From animals for food to diamonds in seeds.

I may do some crossing myself.


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## GroErr (Sep 11, 2017)

Purely by the numbers, the longer veg, monster plants would be the way to get the most out of a space. aka ttystick's monsters yielding at 5 zips/gallon of medium. You only lose the veg time, flowering time should be consistent across strains phenos.

To each his own of course, you have to go with your own preferences/focus. For me, what it really comes down to is variety and putting all your eggs in one basket. If that monster goes wrong you've just set yourself back a few months vs. a few weeks. And to tie up a room with a couple of monster plants means less variety which I'm not willing to trade for yields.

I think I joked with @ttystikk that if I were to go vertical monsters I'd need a 20x40' garage or the like to get the variety I like.


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## torontoke (Sep 11, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Purely by the numbers, the longer veg, monster plants would be the way to get the most out of a space. aka ttystick's monsters yielding at 5 zips/gallon of medium. You only lose the veg time, flowering time should be consistent across strains phenos.
> 
> To each his own of course, you have to go with your own preferences/focus. For me, what it really comes down to is variety and putting all your eggs in one basket. If that monster goes wrong you've just set yourself back a few months vs. a few weeks. And to tie up a room with a couple of monster plants means less variety which I'm not willing to trade for yields.
> 
> I think I joked with @ttystikk that if I were to go vertical monsters I'd need a 20x40' garage or the like to get the variety I like.


I agree but I'm interested in the actual numbers. It's a trade off and I see the pro and cons of both theories but that tells me that in most of these situations the perfect comprise is usually somewhere in the middle but where?
Would be nice to have the info charted.
This many watts to this many gals equals this amount per week or month or hour.
Anything is better then the current collection of broken info.
I'm dreaming in technicolor I'm sure


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Purely by the numbers, the longer veg, monster plants would be the way to get the most out of a space. aka ttystick's monsters yielding at 5 zips/gallon of medium. You only lose the veg time, flowering time should be consistent across strains phenos.
> 
> To each his own of course, you have to go with your own preferences/focus. For me, what it really comes down to is variety and putting all your eggs in one basket. If that monster goes wrong you've just set yourself back a few months vs. a few weeks. And to tie up a room with a couple of monster plants means less variety which I'm not willing to trade for yields.
> 
> I think I joked with @ttystikk that if I were to go vertical monsters I'd need a 20x40' garage or the like to get the variety I like.


With a properly designed perpetual op, you only 'lose' the veg time once. After that, the pipeline is full and things just keep on truckin' thru.


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## ttystikk (Sep 11, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I agree but I'm interested in the actual numbers. It's a trade off and I see the pro and cons of both theories but that tells me that in most of these situations the perfect comprise is usually somewhere in the middle but where?
> Would be nice to have the info charted.
> This many watts to this many gals equals this amount per week or month or hour.
> Anything is better then the current collection of broken info.
> I'm dreaming in technicolor I'm sure


There's an interface between the plant's own characteristics and the design of the operation they're in.


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2017)

Another dank Sinatra male has shown up to party but he wasn't invited.
Not going to add another plant I'll use the space to spread these out a lil.
I'll be adding another ds when the lucky charms comes down.


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> With a properly designed perpetual op, you only 'lose' the veg time once. After that, the pipeline is full and things just keep on truckin' thru.


I think I might be thinking bout this too much but I'm pretty sure you'd lose the veg time either way sir.
Just because you have another 4monthed veg plant behind it doesn't change the fact that you would be losing 4 months worth of work. One minor hiccup and 1/4 of the year is fucked. 
It's a risk/reward scenario for sure.
Lots of time and risk is worth it for lots of reward but there's certainly a trade off.
Maybe this topic is a bit like pissing in the wind tho since there isn't a known guideline to check for what works best for every situation.
Just medicated bantering.
I'll quit thinking now for sure....


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## zoic (Sep 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> It's a risk/reward scenario for sure.


I do not want to play devils advocate but .... are all experiments not risk/reward


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2017)

zoic said:


> I do not want to play devils advocate but .... are all experiments not risk/reward


Experiments are for sure sir.
But at what point is something no longer an experiment?
I wouldn't call using 8hrs an experiment anymore. It's simply how I grow now.
Same as ttystick and his wall o weed.
He seems to have the method down and I'm sure it's what he'll do forever now.


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## zoic (Sep 12, 2017)

Good point. It certainly looks intriguing but I cannot pull that off here.


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## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I think I might be thinking bout this too much but I'm pretty sure you'd lose the veg time either way sir.
> Just because you have another 4monthed veg plant behind it doesn't change the fact that you would be losing 4 months worth of work. One minor hiccup and 1/4 of the year is fucked.
> It's a risk/reward scenario for sure.
> Lots of time and risk is worth it for lots of reward but there's certainly a trade off.
> ...


One hiccup means one batch is affected.

If you want a crop every month, you start one every month. After however many months of veg, you flip every month. Then two months later you get a crop... every month.

The only difference between pulling monthly crops and weekly ones is how many are in process at any given time.

Since veg plants are smaller, the cost is lower and the space required is less.


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2017)

I understand how the veg and flower process works bud.
I think we are on the same page but perhaps something is lost in translation.
Was simply saying I agree with groerr that if u lose a plant u veg'd that long its more work down the drain then 10 plants only veg'd for a month.


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## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I understand how the veg and flower process works bud.
> I think we are on the same page but perhaps something is lost in translation.
> Was simply saying I agree with groerr that if u lose a plant u veg'd that long its more work down the drain then 10 plants only veg'd for a month.


This is true unless there's a plant count constraint.

Also, with a larger/longer veg, there's the opportunity to have an extra to fill in the hole where a plant failed to thrive, so the space isn't wasted.

Different way to skin the same cat, in this case responsive to max yield while minimising plant count.


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2017)

Gpb revved
 
False teeth p2


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Sep 12, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> I'm hoping for a nice October as well. Mine are at the same stage.


Ive been a little worried about mine (first grow) but the one "lagging behind" looks like yours. Thanks for inadvertently reassuring me


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2017)

Dreadfully dank dd said:


> Ive been a little worried about mine (first grow) but the one "lagging behind" looks like yours. Thanks for inadvertently reassuring meView attachment 4009481


It will be late October before it's done. Hopefully the weather holds out for all of us.
Outdoor growing in our neck of the woods is enough to make a guy stay indoors.
Good luck


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Sep 12, 2017)

A few days ago i found debris on one plant. The top cola was broken over the opposite direction but not all the way. I removed the debris and gently leaned the cola back over and have left it alone. It appears to be doing ok but i want to do what it needs to be healthy overall. Any insight? This pic was taken today, 3 days post injury


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2017)

Dreadfully dank dd said:


> A few days ago i found debris on one plant. The top cola was broken over the opposite direction but not all the way. I removed the debris and gently leaned the cola back over and have left it alone. It appears to be doing ok but i want to do what it needs to be healthy overall. Any insight? This pic was taken today, 3 days post injuryView attachment 4009494


Usually if I break a branch or top I put some honey on the split and put duct tape over it to help it stay in place. They are pretty rugged plants that can handle some abuse.
The honey seems to make it heal a lil quicker and a knuckle will form.


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## ttystikk (Sep 12, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Usually if I break a branch or top I put some honey on the split and put duct tape over it to help it stay in place. They are pretty rugged plants that can handle some abuse.
> The honey seems to make it heal a lil quicker and a knuckle will form.


Haven't heard of the honey trick before. I should try that...


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## torontoke (Sep 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Haven't heard of the honey trick before. I should try that...


Honey is a natural antiseptic and antibacterial which is why it works for cuttings too.
Keeps things clean so the plant can focus on healing

Edit: Certain types of honey also contain beneficial enzymes to help promote new growth


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Sep 13, 2017)

Thanks, I'll try that


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## torontoke (Sep 14, 2017)

Pulled another male dank Sinatra today.
Replaced him with a known female that showed in my tent.
Good thing I had to many to choose from

Here's the new girl pre flip
 

Field trip 
 
More cowbell
 
Lucky charms


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## 3GT (Sep 15, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> remember people doing the party cup grows, as the craft advances will we all now try get 5 oz's from a 1 gallon by vegging at 24/0 for 3 months then flowering for 8 hours on 16 hours off? extreme possibilities


I'll try update with photos soon but my 4'x2' drobe houses an ak47 in 2 gal coco/perlite + expanded clay bottom fabric pot/plastic Hempy hybrid with airstone. 

Veg 24/0 for 3 months under 100w bridgelux EB led strips, 

flowering 8/16 with 125w+ 125w EB strips hung vertically on each side (6/18 schedule) + 315w Philips 3100k (6/18 schedule) + 600w philips son-t (2/22 schedule) the 

315w wakes them up for 1hr by itself, then led strip side lighting comes on for 6hrs, on hours 4/6 the 600w HPs turns on for 1 hour at a time and the 315w turns off during hours 4/6 as well. 

Anyway hope that makes sense and you're awesome torontoke  cheers mate


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## torontoke (Sep 15, 2017)

Thanks for the kind words and stopping by to share your set up. Sounds like your well on your way to self sufficiency and I hope you always harvest twice what u need.


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## 3GT (Sep 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks for the kind words and stopping by to share your set up. Sounds like your well on your way to self sufficiency and I hope you always harvest twice what u need.


Thanks and you to! Thanks for the inspiration to mix up the lighting hours  awesome thread to read through


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## torontoke (Sep 16, 2017)

Mc
Field trip
Lc


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## torontoke (Sep 17, 2017)




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## torontoke (Sep 17, 2017)

These outdoor plants are looking and smelling good but I'm very doubtful they will finish in time.
Gonna give them another 2-4weeks and see where they are at.
Worst case scenario they will get dug out and put into 5 gal buckets and finished in my buddies garage. Will suck splitting the crop but what can ya do.


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## GroErr (Sep 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 4012056 View attachment 4012057 View attachment 4012059 View attachment 4012060 View attachment 4012061 View attachment 4012064 View attachment 4012065


They look great but sooo long to finish


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## torontoke (Sep 17, 2017)

GroErr said:


> They look great but sooo long to finish


I know bro I know
And the worst part is those are all usually quick finishing strains or at least they were for me indoors.
Think this is my last attempt at running outdoor plants here in Ontario without a light dep greenhouse.


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## GroErr (Sep 17, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I know bro I know
> And the worst part is those are all usually quick finishing strains or at least they were for me indoors.
> Think this is my last attempt at running outdoor plants here in Ontario without a light dep greenhouse.


Yeah if you want a guaranteed crop those are your better options. Shitty year, too much rain, not enough sun, worst combo. All the plants I've seen and outdoor guys I've talked to offline are seeing the same thing. As the amount of light diminishes, they're not going to finish any faster


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## torontoke (Sep 19, 2017)

So I found out I'll be going in for a series of spinal cord injections over the next couple months so I'm trying to spend as much time as possible getting my hands dirty.
On the bright side I'll be puffing on this lucky charms by then and everything else in the cabinet is looking Sheila like.
  
Field trip 
 
More cowbell


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## HotWaterKarl (Sep 19, 2017)

Hey man I read like the first 15 pages of this thread, but damn it is long. Would love to see some pics of buds grown in 8/16 like I believe you have standardized on, but don't want to search through 109 pages! Would you know what page you have those pics on? Also for 8/16 is there any lessons learned, main takeaways etc. especially if applied to hydro (ebb/flow)? 

In Ontario we are getting killed, especially in the north I pay over 200$/month only for ~2.2kw extra that my lights use, so this would help me a ton. Also would allow me to grow indoors in some summer months. I read earlier in the beginning of the thread(ish) that you had gotten 75% of the yield except that was on 6/18. Curious what the numbers are now that you have standardized on 8/16. Sorry if this shit has been asked 100 times before in this thread.


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## torontoke (Sep 19, 2017)

HotWaterKarl said:


> Hey man I read like the first 15 pages of this thread, but damn it is long. Would love to see some pics of buds grown in 8/16 like I believe you have standardized on, but don't want to search through 109 pages! Would you know what page you have those pics on? Also for 8/16 is there any lessons learned, main takeaways etc. especially if applied to hydro (ebb/flow)?
> 
> In Ontario we are getting killed, especially in the north I pay over 200$/month only for ~2.2kw extra that my lights use, so this would help me a ton. Also would allow me to grow indoors in some summer months. I read earlier in the beginning of the thread(ish) that you had gotten 75% of the yield except that was on 6/18. Curious what the numbers are now that you have standardized on 8/16. Sorry if this shit has been asked 100 times before in this thread.


No worries sir 
I realize it's long. Been mentioned a few times by people but it is what it is.
I'm still using only 8hrs
The yields really turned around when I switched to led around this part of the thread.
http://rollitup.org/t/my-8hr-flowering-experiment.865489/page-61#post-13447665

I realize the rates are insane here thats why I started playing with light cycles.
Thanks for stopping by and showing interest in the thread tho I appreciate it.


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## Buba Blend (Sep 19, 2017)

HotWaterKarl said:


> Hey man I read like the first 15 pages of this thread, but damn it is long. Would love to see some pics of buds grown in 8/16 like I believe you have standardized on, but don't want to search through 109 pages! Would you know what page you have those pics on? Also for 8/16 is there any lessons learned, main takeaways etc. especially if applied to hydro (ebb/flow)?
> 
> In Ontario we are getting killed, especially in the north I pay over 200$/month only for ~2.2kw extra that my lights use, so this would help me a ton. Also would allow me to grow indoors in some summer months. I read earlier in the beginning of the thread(ish) that you had gotten 75% of the yield except that was on 6/18. Curious what the numbers are now that you have standardized on 8/16. Sorry if this shit has been asked 100 times before in this thread.


What I did worked well for me.
If I saw pictures in veg I'd jump a month forward and speed scroll forward to find pics. Then going by those picks I'd estimate when harvest would be and jump forward to that date then speed scroll in both directions if necessary till I found pics. Found harvest pics fast after a few times of doing it. Click on the arrows between the pages to jump around.


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## torontoke (Sep 19, 2017)

Buba Blend said:


> What I did worked well for me.
> If I saw pictures in veg I'd jump a month forward and speed scroll forward to find pics. Then going by those picks I'd estimate when harvest would be and jump forward to that date then speed scroll in both directions if necessary till I found pics. Found harvest pics fast after a few times of doing it. Click on the arrows between the pages to jump around.


Ya that works too.
Because it's my journal I did tend to over post and maybe over share a lil bit lol.
Makes it difficult to wade through for others.
I apologize


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## Buba Blend (Sep 19, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ya that works too.
> Because it's my journal I did tend to over post and maybe over share a lil bit lol.
> Makes it difficult to wade through for others.
> I apologize


It's your journal, I and many others respect that to the max. There are some members who do not have the same respect for journals as you know. I'm not speaking about HotWaterKarl here, so he knows.
You have other things to worry about. I hate needles and hope your injection is not to painful. That procedure would have me stressing more than I already do.
Good Luck!


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## HotWaterKarl (Sep 19, 2017)

Hey not worries mate, that's fine. Wow those buds look great. I myself have started with 12/12 before and after week 4 gone down to 11/13 then week 6-8 10/14. Did not notice a difference in yield If I could do 8/16 from start thought that would be great, I will just have to man up and try it I guess. Not sure if I could survive with a loss of yields in my meds though, I guess just have to try it and see what % of yields I get. 

Yeah, and good luck with the procedure, I may be doing a similar one myself soon.


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## torontoke (Sep 19, 2017)

Buba Blend said:


> It's your journal, I and many others respect that to the max. There are some members who do not have the same respect for journals as you know. I'm not speaking about HotWaterKarl here, so he knows.
> You have other things to worry about. I hate needles and hope your injection is not to painful. That procedure would have me stressing more than I already do.
> Good Luck!


Thanks a lot
It was meant to be just my journal and I have been surprised that a lot of people have gotten interested in what I do with my tiny lil cabinet.



HotWaterKarl said:


> Hey not worries mate, that's fine. Wow those buds look great. I myself have started with 12/12 before and after week 4 gone down to 11/13 then week 6-8 10/14. Did not notice a difference in yield If I could do 8/16 from start thought that would be great, I will just have to man up and try it I guess. Not sure if I could survive with a loss of yields in my meds though, I guess just have to try it and see what % of yields I get.
> 
> Yeah, and good luck with the procedure, I may be doing a similar one myself soon.


Honestly if your considering something besides 12/12 I always recommend people start off slow and ease into it to gauge your own results. I'd start at 11/13 or even 10/14 and if your happy and curious keep reducing.
I'm able to supply myself with enough smoke for the most part but ymmv because we are all different.

And again thanks for the feedback guys
It's nice to know that my journal is helping anyone else even if it just gets your curiousity going enough to think a lil differently.


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## ttystikk (Sep 19, 2017)

torontoke said:


> So I found out I'll be going in for a series of spinal cord injections over the next couple months so I'm trying to spend as much time as possible getting my hands dirty.
> On the bright side I'll be puffing on this lucky charms by then and everything else in the cabinet is looking Sheila like.
> View attachment 4012964 View attachment 4012965
> Field trip
> ...


OUCH. Hurts just to think about it.

Hope it works out for you.

Girls look great as always!


----------



## torontoke (Sep 19, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> OUCH. Hurts just to think about it.
> 
> Hope it works out for you.
> 
> Girls look great as always!


Thanks man
not looking forward to it
I'm 225lbs and terrified of needles lmao
First they do diagnostic testing in there then blockers and something else.
I shall warn him I may need to be out or he might get bit


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## ttystikk (Sep 19, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks man
> not looking forward to it
> I'm 225lbs and terrified of needles lmao
> First they do diagnostic testing in there then blockers and something else.
> I shall warn him I may need to be out or he might get bit


A few good hash rips before the appointment might help, too.


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Sep 20, 2017)

Update on broken cola...it seems to be healing and the flower is developing along with the others so i think tragedy has been averted. Thanks for the help everyone.


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## mr. childs (Sep 20, 2017)

Dreadfully dank dd said:


> Update on broken cola...it seems to be healing and the flower is developing along with the others so i think tragedy has been averted. Thanks for the help everyone.View attachment 4013545
> View attachment 4013541


i put honey on the wounds sometimes...


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## Dreadfully dank dd (Sep 20, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i put honey on the wounds sometimes...


That was the advice i was given! And it was perfect advice. All natural and healing.


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## torontoke (Sep 20, 2017)

Dreadfully dank dd said:


> That was the advice i was given! And it was perfect advice. All natural and healing.


Mother Nature seems to provide a natural remedy for near everything. And man created duct tape for the rest 

Glad you were able to save it and I bet that cola is gonna taste extra sweet now.


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## torontoke (Sep 21, 2017)

Chopped the first lucky charms this morning. Easily the stickiest plant I've had in my cabinet yet.
I left all the bottom growth on and threw it into my tent. When she grows back she's getting cloned and hit with pollen.
As long as she smokes good I should say!
 

Put another branchy more cowbell in the open slot of the flower cab and I'm starting to get the hang of this staggered business.
The field trip continues to pack on Chrystal


----------



## torontoke (Sep 21, 2017)

The bodhi bubbak x omg testers are liking the leds and hempys.
Haven't thrown up a pic of these so figured why not.
 
Had to move n water everything today since I'm leaving tonight for a weekend in the woods. 
Tent is literally jammed to the point of not even another solo cup will fit.


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## mr. childs (Sep 21, 2017)

with the reveg of the lucky charms do you place the girl in the corner of the tent or dim down the lights? i bleached out my reveg by not dimming...


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## torontoke (Sep 21, 2017)

I stick it in the back corner. Let it get super dry and then switch it to veg nutes.
The space monkey and gpb took well to revegging but the more cowbell did not.
So I guess it's a wait n see. If the smoke doesn't live up to the hype I'll chuck it.


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## GroErr (Sep 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I stick it in the back corner. Let it get super dry and then switch it to veg nutes.
> The space monkey and gpb took well to revegging but the more cowbell did not.
> So I guess it's a wait n see. If the smoke doesn't live up to the hype I'll chuck it.


You know, I meant to do this with the Blue Harley I just pulled and forgot like a stoner. Last round I'd cut 2x clones off my Fireballs pheno which for some reason didn't take. I really wanted it and was going to re-veg, instead I cut 3x clones at week 6 and stuck them in the cloner. Voila, 2 weeks later 2 of them rooted.

So, what I meant to try and forgot was to take a clone when I'm harvesting the plant and see if they root in the cloner. I see no reason why they wouldn't as long as you leave some small plant material and popcorn buds. If they'll re-veg, they'll clone is my thinking.

Going to make a note so my stoned ass doesn't forget and grab clones from the last 2x Blue Ripper's I'm just about to harvest, wtf.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 21, 2017)

Those seeds popped.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 21, 2017)

GroErr said:


> You know, I meant to do this with the Blue Harley I just pulled and forgot like a stoner. Last round I'd cut 2x clones off my Fireballs pheno which for some reason didn't take. I really wanted it and was going to re-veg, instead I cut 3x clones at week 6 and stuck them in the cloner. Voila, 2 weeks later 2 of them rooted.
> 
> So, what I meant to try and forgot was to take a clone when I'm harvesting the plant and see if they root in the cloner. I see no reason why they wouldn't as long as you leave some small plant material and popcorn buds. If they'll re-veg, they'll clone is my thinking.
> 
> Going to make a note so my stoned ass doesn't forget and grab clones from the last 2x Blue Ripper's I'm just about to harvest, wtf.


Lol I've been there about a hundred times myself that's how I always end up running seed and not clones.
But after revegging the last couple my thinking is that if the goal is to have clones grow roots then why not use the roots it's already grown?
I'm going to transplant it to give it a rinse and kickstart but I think it will revert back to veg fairly quick.
We will know soon enough.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 21, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> Those seeds popped.


Congrats hope they are all girls!


----------



## ANC (Sep 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Another dank Sinatra male has shown up to party but he wasn't invited.
> Not going to add another plant I'll use the space to spread these out a lil.
> I'll be adding another ds when the lucky charms comes down.
> 
> View attachment 4009068


Wouldn;t mind some of that pollen


----------



## GroErr (Sep 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Lol I've been there about a hundred times myself that's how I always end up running seed and not clones.
> But after revegging the last couple my thinking is that if the goal is to have clones grow roots then why not use the roots it's already grown?
> I'm going to transplant it to give it a rinse and kickstart but I think it will revert back to veg fairly quick.
> We will know soon enough.


Yeah, re-veg is typically considered the last chance at keeping a good pheno going. I just can't afford veg space at all but I can fit 36 clones in the space of a single re-veg plant/pot. That's why I'm thinking if I can get away with cloning at harvest, if I ever get stuck it's a good backup option short of a re-veg.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Sep 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Congrats hope they are all girls!


Thanks. 

A male won't hurt my feelings.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 21, 2017)

ANC said:


> Wouldn;t mind some of that pollen


I took a clone of him before he was culled so I can make ds f3's so when I have some I'll save a lil for ya.



GroErr said:


> Yeah, re-veg is typically considered the last chance at keeping a good pheno going. I just can't afford veg space at all but I can fit 36 clones in the space of a single re-veg plant/pot. That's why I'm thinking if I can get away with cloning at harvest, if I ever get stuck it's a good backup option short of a re-veg.


Totally understand sir
I'd rather not take up all the space either but it's a harder to replace strain. The first couple were to see if I could and if it's worthwhile. Still makes for a better then nothing option.


----------



## GroErr (Sep 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I took a clone of him before he was culled so I can make ds f3's so when I have some I'll save a lil for ya.
> 
> 
> Totally understand sir
> I'd rather not take up all the space either but it's a harder to replace strain. The first couple were to see if I could and if it's worthwhile. Still makes for a better then nothing option.


Oh yeah for sure, I'm just trying to figure out if they'll clone at that stage. if I can get them cloning somewhat consistently I consider it about the same rate as re-veg. Some plants just don't seem to take to it.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 21, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Oh yeah for sure, I'm just trying to figure out if they'll clone at that stage. if I can get them cloning somewhat consistently I consider it about the same rate as re-veg. Some plants just don't seem to take to it.


I tried it with those same plants remember?
I used honey and they rooted in less then a week and stayed the same size for 45days lol


----------



## GroErr (Sep 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I tried it with those same plants remember?
> I used honey and they rooted in less then a week and stayed the same size for 45days lol


No didn't 't realize those were from a plant at harvest. Sounds like they'll take a long time to re-veg


----------



## torontoke (Sep 21, 2017)

It threw tons of single fans and really didn't grow much in any other way.
When I put it beside a seed plant I popped after taking the clone I said to myself never again lol. You would have to really really want to save that pheno imo.
I waited an entire flower cycle and said enough.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 21, 2017)

Most likely it was strain specific imo 
Because the more cowbell wouldn't reveg either or at least not at an acceptable rate.
Besides that was just my limited experience with it I've heard that others have had better results with it.


----------



## GroErr (Sep 21, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Most likely it was strain specific imo
> Because the more cowbell wouldn't reveg either or at least not at an acceptable rate.
> Besides that was just my limited experience with it I've heard that others have had better results with it.


It's a pain in the ass and long process, yet another reason to see if the clones will actually grow. Interesting that they rooted yet took forever to actually grow anything. I think it is strain or pheno specific. No different than cloning, I have some from the cloner to party cups in 8 days, some take 20. The PITA with either re-veg plants or cutting flowering clones is that stage where they go back to normal growth can vary...by weeks!

I only do the flowering clones with extreme phenos I don't want to lose and s*it happened during the normal cloning process. If it's only taking the space of a party cup I don't care how long it takes. But taking up valuable real estate in a pot, it would have to be my most prized male or something, just not worth the space otherwise, I can get a new seed going faster!


----------



## Black Thumb (Sep 22, 2017)

OKay so its 24 hours veg?


----------



## torontoke (Sep 22, 2017)

Black Thumb said:


> OKay so its 24 hours veg?


What?
I'm not sure what ur asking about so I can't help.
24hr veg works. 
But so does 20/4, 18/16, 17/7, 16/8, 15/9 or 6/2x3,5/3x3 
Or 12:1
Good luck with whatever u choose.


----------



## 10200g4l (Sep 22, 2017)

So how did things turn out. Sorry but there is 111 pages lol. I run 6k watts and this technique would really save money. If the bud quality and yield is still great.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 23, 2017)

10200g4l said:


> So how did things turn out. Sorry but there is 111 pages lol. I run 6k watts and this technique would really save money. If the bud quality and yield is still great.


Things turned out dank and delicious!

The "technique" works enough to supply myself with meds.
Unfortunately I can't offer a direct yield lost per hour but I can say that strain dependant I am still able to get an oz per gal for the most part. 
Hoping to have some much more detailed info one day but I'm working on it.

I try to recommend that people curious about trying alternate cycles ease into it and I'm confident that even going to 11/13 or 10/14 could save you a couple bucks, shave a few days off of harvest time and not effect potentcy one bit.
As always ymmv but more n more people are having good results.


----------



## 10200g4l (Sep 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Things turned out dank and delicious!
> 
> The "technique" works enough to supply myself with meds.
> Unfortunately I can't offer a direct yield lost per hour but I can say that strain dependant I am still able to get an oz per gal for the most part.
> ...


Thanks for the info. I'll definitely try it out.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 23, 2017)

Space monkey 
 
Tiger mountain


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 23, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Things turned out dank and delicious!
> 
> The "technique" works enough to supply myself with meds.
> Unfortunately I can't offer a direct yield lost per hour but I can say that strain dependant I am still able to get an oz per gal for the most part.
> ...


I'm inclined to believe your first hand experience over what some 30 year old book says.

If your potency was cut by half I'm pretty damn sure you'd have noticed by now!


----------



## torontoke (Sep 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm inclined to believe your first hand experience over what some 30 year old book says.
> 
> If your potency was cut by half I'm pretty damn sure you'd have noticed by now!


it's the most ridiculous debate 
How people can be so close minded that they can admit to not trying something yet argue with someone that not only tried it but actually still does it?
Stupidity imo 
And that's the head mod 

And I suppose that the other dozen people that have reduced their hours wouldn't notice a 50% potency reduction?
Where are the negative posts?


----------



## GroErr (Sep 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> it's the most ridiculous debate
> How people can be so close minded that they can admit to not trying something yet argue with someone that not only tried it but actually still does it?
> Stupidity imo
> And that's the head mod
> ...


All dropping down to 11.5/12.5 from 12.5/11.5 has produced for me has been stinkier, faster finishing, more potent plants not less. The referenced study produced 30+ years ago may have very well been valid, using 30+ old technology and genetics. Things have changed a little in that timeframe.


----------



## BobBitchen (Sep 24, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Oh yeah for sure, I'm just trying to figure out if they'll clone at that stage. if I can get them cloning somewhat consistently I consider it about the same rate as re-veg. Some plants just don't seem to take to it.


 
They should clone late in flower just fine, then on to re-veg


----------



## GroErr (Sep 24, 2017)

BobBitchen said:


> View attachment 4015886
> They should clone late in flower just fine, then on to re-veg


Anything will root in your garden - lol What got me thinking was the original Fireballs clones didn't take well so I cut them at 6 weeks, prior to that the most I'd taken was around week 4 and worked fine. Cut 3 and all rooted quick, still vegging the one I planted but it has new growth so expect it to do just fine. I think I have room in there to throw some 8 week harvested BR's in just to test, I have the clones but just want to establish how long they'll take to be ready. For me it's just about space, any gains are welcome!


----------



## BobBitchen (Sep 24, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Anything will root in your garden - lol What got me thinking was the original Fireballs clones didn't take well so I cut them at 6 weeks, prior to that the most I'd taken was around week 4 and worked fine. Cut 3 and all rooted quick, still vegging the one I planted but it has new growth so expect it to do just fine. I think I have room in there to throw some 8 week harvested BR's in just to test, I have the clones but just want to establish how long they'll take to be ready. For me it's just about space, any gains are welcome!


yea, if I remember correctly. my patience gave out quickly waiting for that clone to re veg. That and the lack of space thing also


----------



## torontoke (Sep 24, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm inclined to believe your first hand experience over what some 30 year old book says.
> 
> If your potency was cut by half I'm pretty damn sure you'd have noticed by now!


Thanks tty but that kind of stupidity is why this site is slowing down so much.
Who's gonna stick around and argue all the time about something as silly as that?



GroErr said:


> All dropping down to 11.5/12.5 from 12.5/11.5 has produced for me has been stinkier, faster finishing, more potent plants not less. The referenced study produced 30+ years ago may have very well been valid, using 30+ old technology and genetics. Things have changed a little in that timeframe.


See the thing that saves u from a pile of weak 50% thc meds is that u didn't cross over the magic 10 hour line.
So even 10.5 is ok it's when u go over 10 that all rational thinking goes out the window and the weed becomes useless.


----------



## 10200g4l (Sep 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks tty but that kind of stupidity is why this site is slowing down so much.
> Who's gonna stick around and argue all the time about something as silly as that?
> 
> 
> ...


Recommendations on other forums??? Serious question. 
Thanks


----------



## torontoke (Sep 24, 2017)

10200g4l said:


> Recommendations on other forums??? Serious question.
> Thanks


No someone on here in another thread.


----------



## GroErr (Sep 24, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks tty but that kind of stupidity is why this site is slowing down so much.
> Who's gonna stick around and argue all the time about something as silly as that?
> 
> 
> ...


Your tolerance must be lowering as you smoke more of the low THC stuff, that has to be the explanation. It's the only thing that makes sense why you would still get high off what you're growing


----------



## torontoke (Sep 24, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Your tolerance must be lowering as you smoke more of the low THC stuff, that has to be the explanation. It's the only thing that makes sense why you would still get high off what you're growing


No sir I'm a total newbie
My virginity grew back too
Everytime is like the first time all over again.

Everyone I know is lucky that I don't use 12/12 or they would all be put into smoke comas and never come out of it.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 25, 2017)

BobBitchen said:


> View attachment 4015886
> They should clone late in flower just fine, then on to re-veg


Maybe for you.

I swear you could get roots on a popsicle stick.


----------



## SonsOfAvery (Sep 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Things turned out dank and delicious!
> 
> The "technique" works enough to supply myself with meds.
> Unfortunately I can't offer a direct yield lost per hour but I can say that strain dependant I am still able to get an oz per gal for the most part.
> ...


Firstly apologies for not reading it all, but 111 pages was a bit much.
Just wondering if you managed to get good results with less light hours, do you still need so many dark hours?
I know the plants will need a minimum to make sure they flower, but say that was 12 and lights on was 8 total 20.
This would reduce the days needed. 
A plant that flowers in usually 60days would then only take 50.

Sorry if this has been covered already, I'm just really intrigued.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 25, 2017)

SonsOfAvery said:


> Firstly apologies for not reading it all, but 111 pages was a bit much.
> Just wondering if you managed to get good results with less light hours, do you still need so many dark hours?
> I know the plants will need a minimum to make sure they flower, but say that was 12 and lights on was 8 total 20.
> This would reduce the days needed.
> ...


No worries
It is a tad bit long now and I wouldn't read it either......now
Yes I would agree that your theory is solid and makes a lot of sense.
The tricky part would be firstly setting up a timer to run that schedule and if u live somewhere with higher daytime rates vs night a 20hr day would have your on time floating through both.
If u do manage to come up with a way of setting it up please feel free to let us know how it goes.


----------



## SonsOfAvery (Sep 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No worries
> It is a tad bit long now and I wouldn't read it either......now
> Yes I would agree that your theory is solid and makes a lot of sense.
> The tricky part would be firstly setting up a timer to run that schedule and if u live someone with higher daytime rates vs night a 20hr day would have your on time floating through both.
> If u do manage to come up with a way of setting it up please feel free to let us know how it goes.


Good to hear that it can work!
I'm currently on my first grow 3 weeks into flower, but I'm in the process of setting up a perpetual grow.
The tariff I'm on for electricity is basically pay as you go. So it's the same charge at any time. And I did recently see a 7day digital timer for only £10. 
Once I get this grow out the way and everything is good (fingers crossed) I'll look into setting up a shorter flowering cycle for my next one.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 25, 2017)

Dank Sinatra 
 
Field trip More cowbell
 
Lucky charms


----------



## torontoke (Sep 25, 2017)




----------



## jpdnkstr (Sep 25, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 4016779
> View attachment 4016780


More Cowbell?


----------



## torontoke (Sep 25, 2017)

jpdnkstr said:


> More Cowbell?


No that's field trip (gsc x ssdd)
Sorry should have added that.

Roughly 30days


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 4016779
> View attachment 4016780


Yep. Half the THC. I can see it already.


----------



## torontoke (Sep 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Yep. Half the THC. I can see it already.


Someone's gotta grow the mids


----------



## torontoke (Sep 26, 2017)

jpdnkstr said:


> More Cowbell?


This ones more cowbell

Lc69
Full house


----------



## torontoke (Sep 28, 2017)

Pictures of a seed popping addiction.
  
Veg tent is a tad bit over crowded


----------



## torontoke (Sep 29, 2017)

First time I've ever seen this mutant trait.
  
Field trip def has the cookie look


----------



## torontoke (Sep 29, 2017)




----------



## torontoke (Sep 29, 2017)

Well after finally getting my licence to grow from health Canada the other day I've decided to fire back up the baby seedling cabinet. 
Just has a dozen led cfl bulbs and a t5 but should help push the perpetual forward.

Popped 5 more dank Sinatra and 5 barefoot dr f2
Lights been on ten minutes and already got 15 cups under it lol


----------



## SonsOfAvery (Sep 30, 2017)

torontoke said:


> View attachment 4018763 View attachment 4018764 View attachment 4018765


How many days into flower are these? Starting to look frosty already!


----------



## torontoke (Sep 30, 2017)

SonsOfAvery said:


> How many days into flower are these? Starting to look frosty already!


They are all at different stages.
Some are only on day 15 of flower others in the back row are roughly 35-37days


----------



## torontoke (Sep 30, 2017)

Still growing


----------



## torontoke (Sep 30, 2017)

Lucky charms d25

More cowbell d25

Dank Sinatra d18


Went back and checked the day I flipped and had the days wrong sorry.
The field trip and cowbell were flipped on sept 5 so only 25 days not 34


----------



## torontoke (Oct 1, 2017)

It's beginning to smell a lot like Christmas and well every other day in my house lmao
 
Day 26 lower of field trip 
 
This ds is gonna be phhhhaaattt


----------



## torontoke (Oct 2, 2017)

Officially out of room completely in the veg tent so I decided today is the day.
Flipped that bitch too
Hoping that most of the plants in the cabinet will be done by the time the tent is sexed and needing more room. 
Eventually I'll just have the testers in the tent flowering and the taller monsters in the cab. 
Only one way to find out.


----------



## zoic (Oct 2, 2017)

You sure know how to pack a tent mister.


----------



## torontoke (Oct 2, 2017)

zoic said:


> You sure know how to pack a tent mister.


Thanks z
But time and enough plants can make anyone look like they know what they are doing.
Still learning and getting better everyday hopefully


----------



## torontoke (Oct 3, 2017)

This ft is smelling amazing and unlike anything I've grown. Excuse the tip burn

This is the second lucky charms but she seems to have extra frosting maybe it didn't get the less then 10hr potency memo.


Doing a heavy defoliation this afternoon and clones from the tent.
Fun times


----------



## torontoke (Oct 3, 2017)

So I took clones from the big plants in the tent in case any of them are magical keepers.
Started thinking and got curious....anyone wanna make a guess on a good over/under line for the grams per watt out of that tent?
Figure it's ideal for showing just how ridiculous a measure that metric really is.

The tent is roughly 3x2x6
There's 2 22" pcb board leds from china with Samsung lm561's
Only on a 130ish watt driver.

There's 5 3 gal plants roughly 30" tall with a min of ten tops each.
And 7 2gal plants (testers) roughly 10-18"

As plants in my main cabinet finish I'll be taking the bigger plants and moving them but the testers will stay til they are done

Should be interesting


----------



## whitebb2727 (Oct 3, 2017)

The landos are up a few inches and have big ole fat leaves.


----------



## torontoke (Oct 3, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> The landos are up a few inches and have big ole fat leaves.


Landos and rku were both Indy dom so they should be nice n dense too.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Oct 3, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Landos and rku were both Indy dom so they should be nice n dense too.


I need to get a pic up of my flower cab. No more screwing around. I got it full and thick canopy.


----------



## torontoke (Oct 4, 2017)

Tallest bushiest plant in the tent was a field trip and he got the snips today.
I expected a few of these to be male anyway just by statistics but it sucks that it had to be the biggest plant by far.
Oh well a lil more room for the rest to spread out.

Cool that it only took 2days from flip to see balls all over it already.
I expect the testers to show any day now.


----------



## whitebb2727 (Oct 4, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Tallest bushiest plant in the tent was a field trip and he got the snips today.
> I expected a few of these to be male anyway just by statistics but it sucks that it had to be the biggest plant by far.
> Oh well a lil more room for the rest to spread out.
> 
> ...


I normally have good luck on female ratio.

I had some outdoor plants get taken late in the year and I planted about 10 back the were about a foot tall. I go back a month later and one female. The rest males.

I just filled my cabinet up and every one of them was female.

Somehow I managed to grab all males for the outdoor. Lol.


----------



## torontoke (Oct 4, 2017)

whitebb2727 said:


> I normally have good luck on female ratio.
> 
> I had some outdoor plants get taken late in the year and I planted about 10 back the were about a foot tall. I go back a month later and one female. The rest males.
> 
> ...


Ahhh the old male'd pack
I've had a few of those.
$100 and u get 9males 1 runty female lol
So far with all the bodhi gear I'm running it usually balances out 50/50
Tho I am due for a few all fem runs


----------



## GroErr (Oct 4, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Ahhh the old male'd pack
> I've had a few of those.
> $100 and u get 9males 1 runty female lol
> So far with all the bodhi gear I'm running it usually balances out 50/50
> Tho I am due for a few all fem runs


Lol, unless you're looking for a male, then the ratio turns to 9:1 females


----------



## torontoke (Oct 4, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, unless you're looking for a male, then the ratio turns to 9:1 females


Yup 
I see you've met my friend Murphy and his law of opposites lmao
I'm almost convinced from now on to just cull the tallest plant right away and not get my hopes up


----------



## GroErr (Oct 4, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Yup
> I see you've met my friend Murphy and his law of opposites lmao
> I'm almost convinced from now on to just cull the tallest plant right away and not get my hopes up


Lol, hate that SOB Murphy most of the time. Once in a while though you get males like these guys and you can tell that Murphy guy to go f'himself


----------



## torontoke (Oct 4, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Lol, hate that SOB Murphy most of the time. Once in a while though you get males like these guys and you can tell that Murphy guy to go f'himself
> 
> View attachment 4021460 View attachment 4021461


Those do look good 
Always nice to flip Murphy the bird


----------



## GroErr (Oct 4, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Those do look good
> Always nice to flip Murphy the bird


Cheers, will find out soon enough, both are about a week into flowering and looking/smelling good.


----------



## torontoke (Oct 4, 2017)

GroErr said:


> Cheers, will find out soon enough, both are about a week into flowering and looking/smelling good.


Is that the rks u were breeding?


----------



## GroErr (Oct 4, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Is that the rks u were breeding?


No that one is about 10 days into flowering with a small Blue Harley clone for some open pollinated BX1's, that male is my Blue Ripper rks male. The one's in the pics were 1) Blue Harley F1 2) Sand Storm (killer smelling, stronger than the strongest smelling female I pulled)

Here's the rks male (bottom) with the Blue Harley clone from last night. I rubbed the stem last night to see if/how it had changed in smell once it started flowering, like skunk piss from a road kill the night before


----------



## hillbill (Oct 5, 2017)

My yields and potency have both gone up since I went 10/14. Maybe 15%-20% heavier on almost all strains so far. I never would have thunk it but flower times and yield and potency are all improved on shorter lighted period. My plants do get a lot of photons at about 50 watts a sq/ft. All high end led and COBs.

I was hoping to just maintain quality and yield with shorter hours. Win,win,win,win!


----------



## SonsOfAvery (Oct 5, 2017)

hillbill said:


> My yields and potency have both gone up since I went 10/14. Maybe 15%-20% heavier on almost all strains so far. I never would have thunk it but flower times and yield and potency are all improved on shorter lighted period. My plants do get a lot of photons at about 50 watts a sq/ft. All high end led and COBs.
> 
> I was hoping to just maintain quality and yield with shorter hours. Win,win,win,win!


Do you think the benefits come from the extra hours of dark? Or could they still produce the same with only 10/12. Saves 2hrs a day and still allows enough of a dark period to maintain flowering?
I'm dying to know if we can shorten the flowering cycles!


----------



## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Oct 5, 2017)

hillbill said:


> My yields and potency have both gone up since I went 10/14. Maybe 15%-20% heavier on almost all strains so far. I never would have thunk it but flower times and yield and potency are all improved on shorter lighted period. My plants do get a lot of photons at about 50 watts a sq/ft. All high end led and COBs.
> 
> I was hoping to just maintain quality and yield with shorter hours. Win,win,win,win!



interesting..i have done 10/14..never checked increase in weight..but it did grow em well..i use c obs/leds too

thanks


----------



## torontoke (Oct 5, 2017)

hillbill said:


> My yields and potency have both gone up since I went 10/14. Maybe 15%-20% heavier on almost all strains so far. I never would have thunk it but flower times and yield and potency are all improved on shorter lighted period. My plants do get a lot of photons at about 50 watts a sq/ft. All high end led and COBs.
> 
> I was hoping to just maintain quality and yield with shorter hours. Win,win,win,win!


Glad to hear that the "gamble" has paid off for you and that you are happy with the results. Somewhere on this forum is a pissed off old mod that won't believe a word of your post but as more n more of these reports surface the more sane I seem.



SonsOfAvery said:


> Do you think the benefits come from the extra hours of dark? Or could they still produce the same with only 10/12. Saves 2hrs a day and still allows enough of a dark period to maintain flowering?
> I'm dying to know if we can shorten the flowering cycles!


I don't believe it's from the extra dark but less of the over saturation that occurs after the plants have had enough light.
I think a shortened overall day would yield the same results imo but would make keeping track of days etc much more difficult.
Trickiest part would be setting up a timer to run it.



OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> interesting..i have done 10/14..never checked increase in weight..but it did grow em well..i use c obs/leds too
> 
> thanks


I didn't know you were trying different cycles!
Did it speed up those long running sativas that you love?


----------



## zoic (Oct 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks z
> But time and enough plants can make anyone look like they know what they are doing.
> Still learning and getting better everyday hopefully



Well maybe there is a sign there for me. I really felt my tent was to jammed with 5 or 6 plants. Now that there are only two I have to keep propping then up because branches would bend way over or even right to the floor. I can see how jamming more plants in there would help since that was not an issue when I had 4-5, propping one another up.


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## torontoke (Oct 5, 2017)

zoic said:


> Well maybe there is a sign there for me. I really felt my tent was to jammed with 5 or 6 plants. Now that there are only two I have to keep propping then up because branches would bend way over or even right to the floor. I can see how jamming more plants in there would help since that was not an issue when I had 4-5, propping one another up.


Like everything else in life it's finding a happy balance.
Lots of pros n cons to consider.
I'm limited most by space so I try to maximize how many are under the light while not having to many to make shadows n dark spots. 
Probably more of an issue during flower then veg but I'm sure every situation/room/tent is different.


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## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Oct 5, 2017)

[QUOTE="torontoke, post: 13822298, member: 880303

I didn't know you were trying different cycles!
Did it speed up those long running sativas that you love?[/QUOTE]

some long flower sativas will break flower at 12 hrs on..

i never write down flowering times..

you are onto something!


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## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2017)

zoic said:


> Well maybe there is a sign there for me. I really felt my tent was to jammed with 5 or 6 plants. Now that there are only two I have to keep propping then up because branches would bend way over or even right to the floor. I can see how jamming more plants in there would help since that was not an issue when I had 4-5, propping one another up.


Using a SCRoG screen will help your situation a great deal.


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## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2017)

hillbill said:


> My yields and potency have both gone up since I went 10/14. Maybe 15%-20% heavier on almost all strains so far. I never would have thunk it but flower times and yield and potency are all improved on shorter lighted period. My plants do get a lot of photons at about 50 watts a sq/ft. All high end led and COBs.
> 
> I was hoping to just maintain quality and yield with shorter hours. Win,win,win,win!


50W/ft² of COB LED is a lot of light. I think that @torontoke is onto something about the amount of light being more important than duration, and I also think that running high light intensity is the key to good results with shortened light cycles.

The study that unnamed mod keeps referring to did not use high light intensity and as such I think the study did not accurately measure what the designer of the experiment thought it did.


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## torontoke (Oct 5, 2017)

I'm only currently running 30ish watts a sqft 
My lowest grams per watt was when I had the driver cranked up to the max around 40watts per sq with 8 plants.
For my tiny cab the sweet spot is probably somewhere in that area. Will be interesting to see how the tent does with only 22w per


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## hillbill (Oct 5, 2017)

I expected some aspect of the final results to be lacking but it just did not happen. Buds are bigger than same strains under 12/12 and potency and terps are the best part of the switch to 10/14. I won't go back any time soon. i won't argue that a lot of light is needed to make it work. All LEDs and COBs.


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## GroErr (Oct 5, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm only currently running 30ish watts a sqft
> My lowest grams per watt was when I had the driver cranked up to the max around 40watts per sq with 8 plants.
> For my tiny cab the sweet spot is probably somewhere in that area. Will be interesting to see how the tent does with only 22w per


I'll be interested to see what you get in that 22w/sq./ft. config. I run at 30w/sq./ft. but did a run when I first got the COBs at one end of the room at ~22w/sq./ft. Great yields but took forever to finish, that was with clones, they went 7-10 days longer than normal.


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## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2017)

My vertical grows with my water cooled COB LED modules were 37.5W/ft². I'm thinking that the next time I run them, I'll go 10/14. See if my results jibe with that of others here.


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## torontoke (Oct 5, 2017)

GroErr said:


> I'll be interested to see what you get in that 22w/sq./ft. config. I run at 30w/sq./ft. but did a run when I first got the COBs at one end of the room at ~22w/sq./ft. Great yields but took forever to finish, that was with clones, they went 7-10 days longer than normal.


 Anything I've ever seen written on the recommended watts per sq/ft were for hps/mh and in the 50-60w range and I think modern efficient led in the 30-40 range would be easily comparable if not brighter.
But as they say the only way to find out yourself is to try it and see. The best part of trying things is that most of these changes make noticeable difference whether positive or negative.
So we shall see soon enough.


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## zoic (Oct 6, 2017)

This is very interesting. I calculated 33.75 watts/ft² for my tent (2x4x5). This round I did 12/12 for the first 28 days, then reduced to 10/14 for the next 28 days, the dropped it to 9/15 to finish (pushing Day 70 now). I was expecting to finish in 60 days or less. 
Good news is that the buds just keep getting fatter and fatter and my yield has more than doubled in Round 3. I expect I will continue this in Round 4 as well.


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## torontoke (Oct 6, 2017)

More cowbell day31 
 
Field trip day31


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## GroErr (Oct 6, 2017)

zoic said:


> This is very interesting. I calculated 33.75 watts/ft² for my tent (2x4x5). This round I did 12/12 for the first 28 days, then reduced to 10/14 for the next 28 days, the dropped it to 9/15 to finish (pushing Day 70 now). I was expecting to finish in 60 days or less.
> Good news is that the buds just keep getting fatter and fatter and my yield has more than doubled in Round 3. I expect I will continue this in Round 4 as well.


Blurples diode based panels (think you're running those right?) are a little different than COBs or QB's due to their efficiency. 40-50w/sq./ft. would be closer to the 30w/sq./ft. using COBs or QB's.


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## Rolla J (Oct 6, 2017)

My cob little rig flowers really nicely. Im testing a unit farm ufo80 led in a 2x2 175w. And i tell ya with the ufo80 i have to water more freqently and the plant seem happy but deficiencies occur more often and sooner, than when using the cob rig. I stilll dont know and been super curious what the diy pulls from the wall, will get a meter today. The ufo80 seems almost overkill tho. Yall ever think that about your lights.. Overkill?


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## Rolla J (Oct 6, 2017)

Reducing light hours on high intensity led fixture sounds pretty interesting!


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## torontoke (Oct 6, 2017)

Rolla J said:


> My cob little rig flowers really nicely. Im testing a unit farm ufo80 led in a 2x2 175w. And i tell ya with the ufo80 i have to water more freqently and the plant seem happy but deficiencies occur more often and sooner, than when using the cob rig. I stilll dont know and been super curious what the diy pulls from the wall, will get a meter today. The ufo80 seems almost overkill tho. Yall ever think that about your lights.. Overkill?


I'm in the minority usually but I'd suggest that 75% of the grows on this and other forums are ran at overkill light levels. Not surprising really, most people live under the idea or mindset that more is always more.
Wanna double your yield double your wattage, Seems like the sort of theory that would be to easy to be true if you ask me.
But still we see people wanting 9 qbs or 2 600w or 1000watters in a 4x4 then complaining bout heat or unhappy looking plants.
I guess I'm now on the opposite type of journey. Starting with as little wattage per sq and working my way back up to find the line of diminished return.
I have a hunch where it is but I've heard you need pics or it didn't happen


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## Rolla J (Oct 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I'm in the minority usually but I'd suggest that 75% of the grows on this and other forums are ran at overkill light levels. Not surprising really, most people live under the idea or mindset that more is always more.
> Wanna double your yield double your wattage, Seems like the sort of theory that would be to easy to be true if you ask me.
> But still we see people wanting 9 qbs or 2 600w or 1000watters in a 4x4 then complaining bout heat or unhappy looking plants.
> I guess I'm now on the opposite type of journey. Starting with as little wattage per sq and working my way back up to find the line of diminished return.
> I have a hunch where it is but I've heard you need pics or it didn't happen


Thats not a bad way to grow. Use the minimal about of light work your way up. Like a newbie with his cfls lol. start with one maybe 2 and end up with 20 of em during flower lol
Made a lil clip on the diy light. I ended up putting her under the ufo80 led to test out the rest of flower.


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## torontoke (Oct 6, 2017)

Rolla J said:


> Thats not a bad way to grow. Use the minimal about of light work your way up. Like a newbie with his cfls lol. start with one maybe 2 and end up with 20 of em during flower lol
> Made a lil clip on the diy light. I ended up putting her under the ufo80 led to test out the rest of flower.


I so wish that were the case.... I've got a stack of old ballasts hoods and other obsolete junk stacked up in my shed taller then me. 
I too drank the kool aid
Now I'm just trying to maximize and become as efficient per sq ft as possible.
One day I'll simply scale up and have no speed bumps or obstacles.
I do consider myself a newbie everyday tho because if I didn't learn something today then it was an inefficient use of time

Video looks good
How high are those lights above the plant looks like 3' in the video.
What strain and how many days ?


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## Rolla J (Oct 6, 2017)

Did you drink the cherry or the grape kool aid?  Lol could make a colossal size grow roow with all them lights!

3".. Naw i could bring it to about 8 inches away fine. But in the vid I'd say it was about maybe 16" away from canopy. Afghani #1 was about 18 days from flip. This what she turned out to be finished under the ufo80. Heat stressed and shitty leaves lol Was15" away and never above 82°
55 days flower


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## horribleherk (Oct 6, 2017)

I'm trying for a small efficient grow kinda like rolla j I have 200w. of blurple in a 3x3 tent using a 2x2 Scrog this costs very little to operate & im on my first grow with it so what I'm gonna yield is still a mystery but I'm about to flip started this grow aug17


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## torontoke (Oct 6, 2017)

Nice hh
I hope it yields twice what ur expecting.

Here's a snap of the 130w tent flipped Monday


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## horribleherk (Oct 6, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Nice hh
> I hope it yields twice what ur expecting.
> 
> Here's a snap of the 130w tent flipped Monday
> View attachment 4022660 View attachment 4022663


it's good to root around & see what others are up to lost 2 back to back grows over the summer right at the time I was trying to get a second grow going well I'm back on track instead of just trying to cover my ass I'll have to go back & catch your thread a little more in depth I have a cob grow I flipped a week ago as well @ 340w.


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## torontoke (Oct 7, 2017)

Beginning to get mixed emotions about plants finishing to quickly.
That field trip has me seriously worried.
Only on day 32 and I'm not sure how long I can leave this thing before it starts to go downhill.
Doesn't seem to be swelling or gaining size but she smells so enticing 
Here's some low potency lowers


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## torontoke (Oct 7, 2017)

Had to cull two bodhi tester males.
5days after flip balls were already there
Of the 5 remaining 3 are for sure females throwing single pistols 2 I'm on the fence and could just go either way.
Probably have all the males out of the tent by the end of the weekend

Edit: also should add I was wrong about all males being the tallest. The two males culled were the tallest and shortest squat runt.
So there goes that theory


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## zoic (Oct 7, 2017)

I also noticed most of the males were taller. Seems to only take a week for little balls to show up, but takes about 2 weeks to see any significant flower forming (pistils).


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## ttystikk (Oct 7, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Beginning to get mixed emotions about plants finishing to quickly.
> That field trip has me seriously worried.
> Only on day 32 and I'm not sure how long I can leave this thing before it starts to go downhill.
> Doesn't seem to be swelling or gaining size but she smells so enticing
> ...


Hmmmmmm...

Low potency frost rails, too.


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## torontoke (Oct 8, 2017)

Pulled another 3' tall field trip male out of the tent this morning.
One top was covered in balls while another throws out pistols.
Easy pass on keeping that thing around.
Looks like another tester is leaning the way of the dick too but I'll wait and check again later.

I'll be keeping my limited posts to here again for awhile. Too many experts and know it alls out there in the other threads.

Happy thanksgiving everyone


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## torontoke (Oct 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Hmmmmmm...
> 
> Low potency frost rails, too.


Who knew such a thing was even possible


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## torontoke (Oct 9, 2017)

Pulled two more bodhi tester males this morning and was shocked to see the purple stemmed lucky charms now covered in balls. Ironically I was just mentioning to someone yesterday that I wouldn't mind an lc male and boom over night it had to happen to the biggest plant in the tent.
Still have 3 testers and 2 other lc f2 in 3gals

Might just leave the lc male and let him have his way with the tent.


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## OrganicGorilla (Oct 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Pulled two more bodhi tester males this morning and was shocked to see the purple stemmed lucky charms now covered in balls. Ironically I was just mentioning to someone yesterday that I wouldn't mind an lc male and boom over night it had to happen to the biggest plant in the tent.
> Still have 3 testers and 2 other lc f2 in 3gals
> 
> Might just leave the lc male and let him have his way with the tent.


Great idea!


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## torontoke (Oct 9, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> Great idea!


Well this is definitely my last tester run for bodhi. I have to many other things I'd like to be focusing on.
I'll just stick as many other crosses into the tent as possible and hope that this lc makes many workable strains for later.
Lemonade out of lemons or some shit


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## OrganicGorilla (Oct 9, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Well this is definitely my last tester run for bodhi. I have to many other things I'd like to be focusing on.
> I'll just stick as many other crosses into the tent as possible and hope that this lc makes many workable strains for later.
> Lemonade out of lemons or some shit


Ya. Bodhi can test his own creations lol.


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## torontoke (Oct 9, 2017)

GrowGorilla said:


> Ya. Bodhi can test his own creations lol.


This has been my 3rd time running testers.
The first two times resulted in decent smoke and the chance to run stuff not currently available but neither were something I'd buy or grow. For someone with extra room testing makes more sense.
I need to stick with gear I know I like and produces.

Think this means it's time for me to focus on turning around my clone game and sticking to mono crops and dailing in on a strain or two. 
Would help me keep the tip burn away to please the haters too


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## GrayDizzle (Oct 9, 2017)

Alright, i usually just lurk around here and never post, but I just spent my spare time the last 4 days reading all 115pages of this journal, and I'm subbed. 
Absolutely great work here. I love your seed addiction.. both popping and creating . Sounds like some pretty nice crosses, especially for the folks who just want to grow their own. 
I look forward to following along your future endeavors, and wish you the best of luck!

Edit: now I'm sad that I have to wait for the next episode!


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## torontoke (Oct 9, 2017)

GrayDizzle said:


> Alright, i usually just lurk around here and never post, but I just spent my spare time the last 4 days reading all 115pages of this journal, and I'm subbed.
> Absolutely great work here. I love your seed addiction.. both popping and creating . Sounds like some pretty nice crosses, especially for the folks who just want to grow their own.
> I look forward to following along your future endeavors, and wish you the best of luck!
> 
> Edit: now I'm sad that I have to wait for the next episode!


Thanks for the kind words.
I'm flattered that anyone would use any of their free time reading my journal and taking the time to respond.
It's been an fun ride and I'm glad that more and more people are open to new ideas.

I'm always up for pot talk


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## hillbill (Oct 10, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> I'm flattered that anyone would use any of their free time reading my journal and taking the time to respond.
> It's been an fun ride and I'm glad that more and more people are open to new ideas.
> 
> I'm always up for pot talk


Enjoying shorter light periods and continue to be impressed. I've been a little over 10 hour lighted days for several months and have seen nothing but positive results, glad I just went ahead and did it. Thanks!


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## torontoke (Oct 12, 2017)

Some outdoor goodness
 
Dank Sinatra
 
Lucky charms
 
Field trip
 
More cowbell


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## torontoke (Oct 13, 2017)




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## completenoobie (Oct 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I don't know what to say mr bob
> All through this run I've been posting shots of even the lowers being covered in resin but perhaps my standards are lower then yours sir.
> I thought these had to much shine to even show up in pictures tbh.
> Wasn't really lookin to share my non potent yet super fat n smelly bud anyway so everyone wins


I really try hard to wait til I finish a thread before posting AND I know this is really old shit as well but I just can't keep my damn mouth shut here.

Dumbass Bob is just trolling or he is dumber than everybody here thinks. He either didn't click on that first pic and zoom in a little or he is fucking blind. I clicked that pic and jesus christ it has a shitload of trichs. Sure it may not be the single frostiest bud pic I have ever seen in my life, but it ranks easily at the top of the list and I have seen a lot of pics like everybody else.

the second pic in message 1227 wasn't clickable so I can't comment on the frost in that one, but the first is frosty AF no doubt about it.

Someone said earlier in this thread that the ignore button saves one's sanity and suggests using it liberally, I would absolutely recommend you and most everybody else ignore dumbBob. Pretty sure I will unless the next post of his I read really shines out above and beyond intelligence with a profound message. I have all the faith in the world that won't happen.


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## torontoke (Oct 14, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> I really try hard to wait til I finish a thread before posting AND I know this is really old shit as well but I just can't keep my damn mouth shut here.
> 
> Dumbass Bob is just trolling or he is dumber than everybody here thinks. He either didn't click on that first pic and zoom in a little or he is fucking blind. I clicked that pic and jesus christ it has a shitload of trichs. Sure it may not be the single frostiest bud pic I have ever seen in my life, but it ranks easily at the top of the list and I have seen a lot of pics like everybody else.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback 
I will always give folks the benefit of the doubt and just assume he isn’t a very socially comfortable kinda guy or his intentions aren’t as negative as they come across.
Anything out of the ordinary tends to rub some folks the wrong way if for no other reason then it’s not what they do.
I try not to assume what quality someone else is used to and I’m not one of those people that thinks I’m the best grower or smarter then the next guy.

Again tho I appreciate your input 
And flattered anyone would take the time to read my journal.


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## completenoobie (Oct 14, 2017)

idk what his problem is but it is extremely clear that he is wrong and just trying to talk shit of some kind for some reason. only a few messages later he lived up to my expectations and for my own sanitys sake, I utilized that button. I wouldn't call it feedback or input as I have nothing to contribute to this thread, I am learning from it. I just pointed out the obvious about a known idiot because I just can't keep my mouth shut sometimes. I believe his intentions are exactly as negative as they come across because it happens time and again. If it was a time or two here and there and he had some positive posts on occasion, I would agree.

On top of that, I have seen a lot of your pics both before and after that, even these last few recently and man they are extremely frosty. Seems there are a shitload of frosty bud pics on this site. I even posted a couple of mine and tho they are not nearly as frosty as most, they are still quite frosty if I do say so myself. I am not good at taking pics, I am still practicing and dialing in getting a good closeup of some buds that will do them justice versus seeing them in person. Plus I can zoom in on a good pic and inspect trichs even easier than trying to scope or loupe on plant and don't have to snip a leaf which is only a small part of the whole picture.

I am no master grower by any stretch of the imagination but love to jack with parameters in everything I do and am intrigued by your system. I hate doing things the same old way they have been done for hundred or thousands of years, I like cutting edge new shit, exploring, being different. I am a little more than half done in this thread and just trying to absorb info to lead me to what I want to try for myself.

Your results and pics say a lot to me and I am striving to do anything I can do at all to get to that level. I have grown on and off for decades and have never grown spectacular shit, mostly due to just growing schwagbagseed. Now that access to quality seeds has become so much easier and I have some supposedly good genetics I can go strain/pheno hunting and work on my grow technique to do the best I can with what I got.

I am not going to come in here and start calling bullshit and until someone has actually tried what you are doing and can prove negative results then they shouldn't either. And unless someone can post a pic of theirs versus "yours" (not yours specifically yours TT, but the general yours) they can't call yours shit or subpar unless it is obvious and tbh the pics you posted he complained about were actually way frostier than he was talking shit about. He was wrong, blind, or just purposefully saying untrue things trying to start shit. Wrong or blind are forgiveable, but when every single post you make is the same shit talking shit stirring lie, you deserve to be blocked or even banned completely from the forum altogether. Hard enough to get along with people when they aren't purposefully flaming and warring. Don't need it.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The hard way would be to use an Arduino controller, but it would be the option with the most flexibility.


well I'm still a bunch of pages from finishing this thread but I respectfully disagree with this statement. Arduino is the easiest and cheapest and most modifiable as far as non 24 hour cycles are concerned. The only thing would be using an RTC module to keep a schedule timed to a calendar.

I could easily program a simple sketch (program) to cycle a number of hours on and off and switch between 3 boards with relays super easy and even add a counter to count days. The only thing I can't do is utilize a RTC to keep a schedule based on a calendar, if it reset, it would just start over. However @SSGrower I think could easily add the code for the RTC, if not there are others here who can.

an arduino and wires and a couple relays and modules off fleabay would be less than $20 or so and the code a few minutes and super easy as far as a counter/timer goes


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## ttystikk (Oct 15, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> well I'm still a bunch of pages from finishing this thread but I respectfully disagree with this statement. Arduino is the easiest and cheapest and most modifiable as far as non 24 hour cycles are concerned. The only thing would be using an RTC module to keep a schedule timed to a calendar.
> 
> I could easily program a simple sketch (program) to cycle a number of hours on and off and switch between 3 boards with relays super easy and even add a counter to count days. The only thing I can't do is utilize a RTC to keep a schedule based on a calendar, if it reset, it would just start over. However @SSGrower I think could easily add the code for the RTC, if not there are others here who can.
> 
> an arduino and wires and a couple relays and modules off fleabay would be less than $20 or so and the code a few minutes and super easy as far as a counter/timer goes


There are digital recycle timers on the market that would suffice for the purpose, no programming required. Plug n play. I own one.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

I don't disagree with there being timers out there already that do these things at all. I have no knowledge or experience with them. I hate programmable timers, I get too confused too easily trying to set them. 

I only disagree that arduino is hard. I can't program but I can write a simple enough sketch to count seconds and turn things on and off, just not based on time or day of the week etc. arduino is way cheaper than what has been stated in this thread. I have spent way less than a hundred bucks and I have over a dozen arduino boards and hundreds of components, sensors, modules, wires, power supplies, and on and on and on. i have a huge tackle box overfilled and not enough room to stick in another resistor and it all was less than $130 for sure, I have so much it won't fit and I have some sitting on top of it.

programming a simple "count to XXX and turn something on" then "count to XXX and turn something off" is super simple and I can't utilize an RTC but simple control is super cheap and easy. Get somebody like @SSGrower to wrtie the sketch and you can have calendar control with inputs and menus and all kinds of fancy shit for $20-30 for one complete board plus whatever the code costs.

There are downsides to not having RTC and calendar control such as every reset the cycle starts from whatever is at the top of the program, so if lights just went out and the power goes out and comes right back on, the arduino resets and if the lights on is the first thing that happens, the lights come right back on. Again @SSGrower apparently already can solve that problem with his knowledge of arduino. I can't but he and others can easily. I just know it can be done and somebody with programming knowledge can do it easily enough.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

SSGrower said:


> working on the 20 hour day arduino clock and though I am still confident it can be done....it will need to be done by someone who knows how to use a data array. Basically need to set up a calendar for days that are 72000 seconds long, I fell asleep 3 times already today trying to figure it out, I give.


just as an exxample, using the 72,000 second day, let's assume you want to split the day equally into halves, do the math for any other split. turn on and delay for 36,000 seconds, turn off and delay for 36,000 seconds. No calendar needed for that. Not sure how to resolve the need for a calendar to account for accidental power off type resets as I mentioned before. super simple. any day length can be used.


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## zoic (Oct 15, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> just as an exxample, using the 72,000 second day, let's assume you want to split the day equally into halves, do the math for any other split. turn on and delay for 36,000 seconds, turn off and delay for 36,000 seconds. No calendar needed for that. Not sure how to resolve the need for a calendar to account for accidental power off type resets as I mentioned before. super simple. any day length can be used.


Is it not possible to use a simple motherboard battery to power the RTC.


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## SSGrower (Oct 15, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> just as an exxample, using the 72,000 second day, let's assume you want to split the day equally into halves, do the math for any other split. turn on and delay for 36,000 seconds, turn off and delay for 36,000 seconds. No calendar needed for that. Not sure how to resolve the need for a calendar to account for accidental power off type resets as I mentioned before. super simple. any day length can be used.


If you can set up an array to tell the light when it should be on or off that would be more robust.
tty is completely correct here:


completenoobie said:


> well I'm still a bunch of pages from finishing this thread but I respectfully disagree with this statement. Arduino is the easiest and cheapest and most modifiable as far as non 24 hour cycles are concerned. The only thing would be using an RTC module to keep a schedule timed to a calendar.
> 
> I could easily program a simple sketch (program) to cycle a number of hours on and off and switch between 3 boards with relays super easy and even add a counter to count days. The only thing I can't do is utilize a RTC to keep a schedule based on a calendar, if it reset, it would just start over. However @SSGrower I think could easily add the code for the RTC, if not there are others here who can.
> 
> an arduino and wires and a couple relays and modules off fleabay would be less than $20 or so and the code a few minutes and super easy as far as a counter/timer goes


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## ttystikk (Oct 15, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> just as an exxample, using the 72,000 second day, let's assume you want to split the day equally into halves, do the math for any other split. turn on and delay for 36,000 seconds, turn off and delay for 36,000 seconds. No calendar needed for that. Not sure how to resolve the need for a calendar to account for accidental power off type resets as I mentioned before. super simple. any day length can be used.


The issue here is that the plants really need 10.5 hours or more of uninterrupted darkness in order to flower. Ten hours isn't quite long enough.

If you wanted short days, consider 8 hours on and 12 off.

Something very similar can be fudged with a weekly digital timer; run 9 on and 12 off for 21 hours, you end up with 8 cycles every 7 days.

Lots of ways to skin this cat.


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## ttystikk (Oct 15, 2017)

Another one for the digital timer; 11:40 off and 7 on, that's 9 cycles per week.

At some point, someone would have to run these short day cycles against @torontoke's normal cycle with only 8 hours on and see which yields better, which finishes sooner, etc.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I know a lot of guys are happy with one zip or gallon of substrate- but I've already done over 5oz/gal.


define substrate if you would and your opinions or knowledge of the differences between different types, such as the difference between soils, potting mixes, coir and hydroton-like media and those hydro media like rdwc, NFT, aero, etc.

I am curious because I don't use a "substrate" per se unless pure water can be the substrate that nutes are suspended in, I use aero and have used other types including soild, potting mixes, and other hydro styles and I am absolutely convinced from what I have witnessed that aero is the absolute hands down be all to end all of the growing world. I have had 100% success with clones in aero until recently and never had that success with clones in any other medium. I have seen growth rates that far outpace any other medium. I have grown tomatoes that people say they have absolutely never tasted a better tasting tomato in their life. And again, growth rates there have been absolutely insane compared to ground dwelling plants of the same type (cuttings from the same plant).

It can sometimes be hard to manipulate and maneuver buckets but worth the trouble for me. Even easier and cleaner.

If you were forced to pick one medium for the rest of your life, what would it be?


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The issue here is that the plants really need 10.5 hours or more of uninterrupted darkness in order to flower. Ten hours isn't quite long enough.


I only used SSGrower's numbers for an example, I bow completely out of the numbers argument/discussion as I am completely ignorant and have learned more here about light schedules than ever before in 25-30 years. I was a diehard 18/6 - 12/12 fan until a few days ago. I have zero knowledge or experience to toss in my $0.02 as far as what supports/prevents flower or veg cycles.

Just giving an example of how to use less than 24 hours as a "day" and how to split it using a simple counter routine.


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## ttystikk (Oct 15, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> define substrate if you would and your opinions or knowledge of the differences between different types, such as the difference between soils, potting mixes, coir and hydroton-like media and those hydro media like rdwc, NFT, aero, etc.
> 
> I am curious because I don't use a "substrate" per se unless pure water can be the substrate that nutes are suspended in, I use aero and have used other types including soild, potting mixes, and other hydro styles and I am absolutely convinced from what I have witnessed that aero is the absolute hands down be all to end all of the growing world. I have had 100% success with clones in aero until recently and never had that success with clones in any other medium. I have seen growth rates that far outpace any other medium. I have grown tomatoes that people say they have absolutely never tasted a better tasting tomato in their life. And again, growth rates there have been absolutely insane compared to ground dwelling plants of the same type (cuttings from the same plant).
> 
> ...


Substrate is anything the roots grow in, whether inert or not.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

the reason I ask is because I am inclined to doubt the "rootball determines yield" theory. I have tiny miniature root mass sizes and fairly large plants. I have only had one harvest yet with the aero and it was a troubled one (root rot issues) but the current run is huge compared to the last and roots are just not a variable to me. I agree nutrient uptake is an important variable, hence the tiny rootballs supporting large plant mass.

I reiterate my request for your (and other's) opinion on different media and the question about choosing one for life.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Maybe this topic is a bit like pissing in the wind tho since there isn't a known guideline to check for what works best for every situation.


very well said


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## torontoke (Oct 15, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> very well said


Hopefully that won’t be the case forever.
With more n more people opening their eyes to marijuana all over the world a lot of the myths and folklore will be proven wrong by tons of testing and research.
One way or the other most of the topics that generate argument will be documented to benefit us all.
As for your question about substrate I’d probably say it depends on grower and product availability.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

HotWaterKarl said:


> Hey man I read like the first 15 pages of this thread, but damn it is long. Would love to see some pics of buds grown in 8/16 like I believe you have standardized on, but don't want to search through 109 pages! Would you know what page you have those pics on? Also for 8/16 is there any lessons learned, main takeaways etc. especially if applied to hydro (ebb/flow)?
> 
> In Ontario we are getting killed, especially in the north I pay over 200$/month only for ~2.2kw extra that my lights use, so this would help me a ton. Also would allow me to grow indoors in some summer months. I read earlier in the beginning of the thread(ish) that you had gotten 75% of the yield except that was on 6/18. Curious what the numbers are now that you have standardized on 8/16. Sorry if this shit has been asked 100 times before in this thread.



If only I had a nickel for every time I've seen this type of question in this thread and so many others that I have personally taken the time to read from post number one to the very last one. I sure am glad I don't think I am the only person on the planet and everybody always has all the time in the world to spend doing the research and reading that I should do myself.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> I realize it's long. Been mentioned a few times by people but it is what it is.


only the good best threads ever reach such maturity. do not apologize for something that has contributed so much to this endeavor. Never be ashamed of your work when so many have benefited from it.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

torontoke said:


> As for your question about substrate I’d probably say it depends on grower and product availability.


I mean stranded on a deserted island type situation. given the choice to take anything you choose but only one type, like you can't take all the soil, soilless, mix, coco, and assorted hydro mediums to last eternity, but you had to choose a single medium period to work with for the rest of your life. all products are available to place in your one and last shopping cart to last you for eternity and whatever item you choose has a bottomless, endless supply forever. One thing. @ttystikk ? anybody? anybody? Bueller?


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

mr. childs said:


> i put honey on the wounds sometimes...


wish I had seen this exchange (and the earlier advice of the same content) literally minutes earlier, I just taped up a branch sans honey right before I saw this info


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I swear you could get roots on a popsicle stick.


hey I once rooted a pencil and grew a pine tree. Learned that trick from a guy I met back during the civil war by the name of stinkbud


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## ttystikk (Oct 15, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> I mean stranded on a deserted island type situation. given the choice to take anything you choose but only one type, like you can't take all the soil, soilless, mix, coco, and assorted hydro mediums to last eternity, but you had to choose a single medium period to work with for the rest of your life. all products are available to place in your one and last shopping cart to last you for eternity and whatever item you choose has a bottomless, endless supply forever. One thing. @ttystikk ? anybody? anybody? Bueller?


I haven't tried everything yet. So far, I like RDWC and Tupur Royal Gold but that's based on very limited personal experience with the available options.

'jury is still out'


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

hillbill said:


> I expected some aspect of the final results to be lacking but it just did not happen.


this is the message I am hearing over and over and over, again and again throughout this thread, mods be damned.

fuck em and feed em fishheads if they are really that stupid. Ignorance is forgivable because it is correctable, stupid is just sinful and close mindedness is the only unforgivable sin.


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## completenoobie (Oct 15, 2017)

zoic said:


> Is it not possible to use a simple motherboard battery to power the RTC.


 the RTCs come with their very own battery on board


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## completenoobie (Oct 16, 2017)

my new favorite saying and I think it applies here

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
- Isaac Asimov


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## ttystikk (Oct 16, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> my new favorite saying and I think it applies here
> 
> "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
> - Isaac Asimov


As a child, I hungrily devoured everything of his I could find. The only reason I haven't read the Foundation series is because I wanted to start at the beginning and read all the way through it and I haven't gotten the chance. Yet!

Science isn't Democratic in the sense that we can vote on the laws of physics and the natural world, to the chagrin of those who would much rather just wish away such bothersome realities as anthropomorphic global warming.

On the other hand, knowledge itself IS Democratic; anyone can learn how the world works if they put some effort into their investigation.

We've seen the resurgence of willful ignorance as a 'legitimate' worldview and political position, legitimized of course by those who are only too happy to take advantage of the naiveté of the hoodwinked.

Ignorance is easy; it doesn't require effort or thought. Learning is hard and it doesn't come easily to most. Therefore the idea that someone who tells you how things are and what to think about them is seductive.

Critical thinking skills just might be the most valuable part of my education. Such skills are the only thing that stands between us and the chaos of social collapse. As such they need to be a centerpiece of everyone's education, starting with schoolchildren and reaching forward throughout our whole lives.


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## zoic (Oct 16, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> I mean stranded on a deserted island type situation. given the choice to take anything you choose but only one type, like you can't take all the soil, soilless, mix, coco, and assorted hydro mediums to last eternity, but you had to choose a single medium period to work with for the rest of your life. all products are available to place in your one and last shopping cart to last you for eternity and whatever item you choose has a bottomless, endless supply forever. One thing. @ttystikk ? anybody? anybody? Bueller?


A tough decision for most I am sure. I would have to choose "mushroom compost" because throughout my life it has proven to be a robust soil or soil amendment for growing anything. I introduced it into my third grow and the yield more than doubled.


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## torontoke (Oct 16, 2017)

More cowbell day 42 
 

Lucky charms lower day 43
 

Dank Sinatra f2 day 35


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## torontoke (Oct 16, 2017)

zoic said:


> A tough decision for most I am sure. I would have to choose "mushroom compost" because throughout my life it has proven to be a robust soil or soil amendment for growing anything. I introduced it into my third grow and the yield more than doubled.


Very interesting choice..
I have been giving this some deep medicated thought and tbh if I was gonna be stranded on an island I don’t think I’d bother bringing a medium.
Most likely anywhere would provide enough natural materials to concoct a working medium.
Maybe I’d bring a jar of honey and a roll of duct tape instead 
And lots of papers


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## zoic (Oct 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Most likely anywhere would provide enough natural materials to concoct a working medium.


No doubt. That is why I would choose mushroom compost, to supplement the existing soil which may be primarily just common sand. Hollowed plant stalk would work in place of papers.


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## GroErr (Oct 16, 2017)

@torontoke did you pull any of the outdoor yet? We got some wet snow this morning up here, nothing stayed though, another cold night tonight, down to 2C. Looking good from tomorrow for a week though.


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## torontoke (Oct 16, 2017)

GroErr said:


> @torontoke did you pull any of the outdoor yet? We got some wet snow this morning up here, nothing stayed though, another cold night tonight, down to 2C. Looking good from tomorrow for a week though.


No sir
None was even close enough to take early.
It’s been a few weeks so hoping that maybe this weekend some of it will be ready.
It’s getting to the something early is better then nothing stage. I’m not really counting on any of it tbh.
Will be more of a bonus


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## GroErr (Oct 16, 2017)

torontoke said:


> No sir
> None was even close enough to take early.
> It’s been a few weeks so hoping that maybe this weekend some of it will be ready.
> It’s getting to the something early is better then nothing stage. I’m not really counting on any of it tbh.
> Will be more of a bonus


I'd imagine they'd be closer now, some cool nights should tighten them up. Even if it's just hash material, a little fall bonus never hurt


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## torontoke (Oct 17, 2017)

More cowbell 
  
Lucky charms wino


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## torontoke (Oct 19, 2017)

Dank Sinatra f2
  
Space monkey 
 
More cowbell
 
Bubba k x omg testers just getting goin


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## torontoke (Oct 19, 2017)

Forgot to update that the field trip is currently hanging. Sample nug was much much better then I expected and the gf even wants more of it now.
We shall see how it compares to the next cowbell and decide which cookie cross I keep. 
The lucky charms male has bust in my tent so lc f3’s are for sure happening. And if the wino lc in my cab will reveg I’ll try for wino f3’s
Going up north to see and hang my outdoor hopefully it’s worth drying out.


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## torontoke (Oct 23, 2017)

Outdoor saga continues
 
Chopped and hung more cowbell and 2 lucky charms at day 49 seems like everything is running less then 50 days 
McLc

Sm getting some color


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## SSGrower (Dec 14, 2017)

@torontoke hope all is well, had to revisit the arduino programming to add a far red fixture to mimic sunrise/sunset and in the course figured out how to control the day length. Will be building prototype for testing, if it works it only required modifying one line of code on my existing program, essentially if you want a 20 hour day a time speed factor of 24/20 or 1.2 is used, for a 16 hour day 24/16 or 1.5, could even go to a longer day 24/30 or 0.8 for a 30 hour day.


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## Cannadab1s (Dec 14, 2017)

torontoke said:


> Dank Sinatra f2
> View attachment 4029225 View attachment 4029226View attachment 4029227
> Space monkey
> View attachment 4029228
> ...


Dank Sinatra...love it. These strain names are making it hard for me to take this growing thing too seriously lol


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## torontoke (Jan 7, 2018)

Well folks 
I think it’s time for me to move on and turn over a new leaf.
Hopefully this journal has entertained and provided a different perspective then the normal grow log.
It’s been a fun ride and I’m glad that I shared the experience with everyone, even tho I never hit my goal. I shall continue to chip away at it but in the meantime....

May all your harvests be plentiful and dank!


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## Bakersfield (Jan 7, 2018)

torontoke said:


> Well folks
> I think it’s time for me to move on and turn over a new leaf.
> Hopefully this journal has entertained and provided a different perspective then the normal grow log.
> It’s been a fun ride and I’m glad that I shared the experience with everyone, even tho I never hit my goal. I shall continue to chip away at it but in the meantime....
> ...


I was starting to wonder where you went off to..?
May the road rise to meet you.


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## SSGrower (Jan 8, 2018)

Don't let a mod quoting 40 year old government sponsored data qwell your sence of exploration. 

Rock on.


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## hillbill (Jan 8, 2018)

10/14 here and going nowhere!


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## farmerfischer (Jan 18, 2018)

@torontoke how you been o'l boy? 
anything new in the making?


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## farmerfischer (Jan 18, 2018)

hillbill said:


> 10/14 here and going nowhere!


this is my prefernce as well .. I've gone as low as 9/15 with average results but most of my strains don't like it much lower then that.. I'm going to try 4weeks at 12/12 then knock it down to 10/14 the last 4-6 weeks of flower ..


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## yesum (Jan 19, 2018)

Interesting idea on using a 9/12 schedule. I just use a mechanical timer so not gonna attempt that now. I guess it would speed up the flowering?

I am using 9 hours and 20 minutes on and 14 hours 40 minutes off. Seems to speed up my flowering by 10 to 20% over 12/12.


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## Unit Farm System Supply (Jan 19, 2018)

torontoke said:


> Well folks
> I think it’s time for me to move on and turn over a new leaf.
> Hopefully this journal has entertained and provided a different perspective then the normal grow log.
> It’s been a fun ride and I’m glad that I shared the experience with everyone, even tho I never hit my goal. I shall continue to chip away at it but in the meantime....
> ...


Pretty helpful grow journal , any plan for new run? Stoked on it


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## Anon618 (May 15, 2018)

torontoke said:


> Ok so im not sure if anyone else had attempted to actually try this new lighting schedule or if anyone read the article.
> Anyhow in skunks feb/march issue there was an article on alternative lighting schedules and i was very curious if their is any validity to it and figure the best way to find out is to try it myself.
> 
> Basically the article says that a flowering or fruiting plant only needs a 6 hr light schedule so 6/18 is supposed to give you tighter bigger fatter buds in less flowering time than 12:12


By the time i got to this thread it got quite long. In the end did you find the 6/18 better during flower? thanks!


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## lukio (May 25, 2018)

@torontoke thanks for the diary bro, its been an education  cheers!


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## Unit Farm System Supply (May 25, 2018)

lukio said:


> @torontoke thanks for the diary bro, its been an education  cheers!


lolol


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## torontoke (Jul 17, 2018)

Happy to have been the guinea pig while trying to help the community.
Hopefully at least one person besides myself was entertained.

Felt like this journal needed a better write up to end it.
Reduced light cycle flowering isnt for everyone and anyone focused on the negatives or potential loses we’re not the intended audience. In fact it was a grow journal for myself that I thought others might be interested in following along with.
There’s been much back n forth and thankfully at least one positive comment for every negative post or pm I received.

I appreciate every single person that chimed in on this journal and thank you all for taking the time.

I have since stopped using the glr to veg but still use only 8/16 to flower. Started a new journal awhile back
https://www.rollitup.org/t/shootin-fer-mids-if-im-lucky.957103/

I would rather not get into light cycle talk in my new journal and wish the best of luck to everyone in their gardens going forward.

Hopefully you all harvest twice as much as you were expecting

Tt


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## hillbill (Jul 17, 2018)

Thanks for doing the reduced hour schedule and I am 10/14 here for a year in a very firm way.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Nov 26, 2019)

Anyone tried 8/8/8?

Seed & Veg -> run FR @ EOD ~50%, then switch to 100% FR @ EOD for bloom. Or something similar?

Intiatially I thought as long as you break down Pfr into Pr by morning (utilizing 725nm) that you could induce bloom regardless the duration of the night. I've found out that it's not the only factor, though still one of the main contributors. It seems the plant has a "circadian clock" that is adjusted by the environment which includes spectrum but also additionally, temp, nutrients, ect. This "clock" builds up instructions over time and only makes minute changes per day. I'm wondering if you started out 8/8/8 from seed that you'd program this clock to accept 8hr days instead of 12hr days.

Typically the Pfr requires an extended period of darkness to revert back into Pr, but if we can blast enough 725nm to mimic the longer night duration generally required to break down the daily accumulated Pfr, as well as increase intensity of lights to match the 12hr DLI in an 8hr period, then in theory you should be able to finish in 1/3 less time.

I'm curious if we can trick the plant when it comes to the day/night length/cycle by adjusting EOD FR intensity while keeping lights consistently timed at 8hr intervals. Adjust Pfr/Pr ratios to signal seasonal changes while initiating growth under an 8hr day to program "circadian clock" to accept a shorter time duration.

Every 2 human days the plant would undergo 3 plant days, the average dark period and light period would remain at 12/12 but light intensity would increase by 1/3. Maybe a more gradual shift from seed to bloom rather than 50% - 100%. Maybe something like ...
Wk 1 - 50%
Wk 2 - 45%
Wk 3 - 40%
Wk 4 - 40%
Wk 5 - 60%
Wk 6 - 80%
Wk 7 - 80%
Wk 8 - 100%
Wk 9 - 100%
Wk 10 - 100%
Wk 11 - 100%
Wk 12 - 100%
Wk 13 - 100%

Easier to understand:
*Photoperiodism | BioNinja*
The switch to flowering is a response to the length of light and dark periods in many plants AND Methods used to induce short-day plants to flower out of season
ib.bioninja.com.au



Brain surgery (lol):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4414745/


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## hillbill (Nov 26, 2019)

In the interest of accuracy; as a result of power interruptions and timer mishap my lights on is 10 1/2 on 13 1/2 off with continued solid results.


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## torontoke (Nov 26, 2019)

Nice to see this old thread get a bump.
I’ve been taking a break from forums and getting set for the next stage of my life but felt compelled to post and chime in
I’m still very much alive and still using 8/16

Space monkey d50


Ss4 f2 day 55 had a rough start but so sweet smelling  dank Sinatra x bbhp

Hoping to be back to posting again regularly soon and I wish everyone the best of luck in life and your garden


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## Frank Nitty (Nov 26, 2019)

torontoke said:


> Nice to see this old thread get a bump.
> I’ve been taking a break from forums and getting set for the next stage of my life but felt compelled to post and chime in
> I’m still very much alive and still using 8/16
> 
> ...


At least you didn't come back empty handed!!! Or should I say,empty tented????


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## Dawgfadda (Jan 22, 2021)

Wow What a read
Super interesting stuff thanks for posting all this Going to give this a try myself once I get all set up


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## hillbill (Jan 22, 2021)

My lights just came on for their 10.5 hour schedule! I think I am 2 1/2 years with this.


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## Dawgfadda (Jan 22, 2021)

hillbill said:


> My lights just came on for their 10.5 hour schedule! I think I am 2 1/2 years with this.


 And you have no problems? Is the person that started this journal still doing it ?


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## hillbill (Jan 22, 2021)

This thread made me do it.
No troubles.
Slight power savings.
Bud is identical for strains I have grown both 12/12 as well as10.5/13.5.
This person has no journal.


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## Dawgfadda (Jan 22, 2021)

hillbill said:


> This thread made me do it.
> No troubles.
> Slight power savings.
> Bud is identical for strains I have grown both 12/12 as well as10.5/13.5.
> This person has no journal.


Thank you 
I’m going to give it a try
Thought this was his journal but I’m new only found this link in another thread.
Glad I did tho


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## puffdatchronic (Jan 22, 2021)

Very interesting, i have often cut my light down to around 10 hour's for the last few weeks out of impatience. Interesting to see that 8 hours works. Might give it a whirl someday on some clones to see if there's any difference.
My only thought is that as we are taking nature inside , for the best results we should mimic nature as much as possible and in october plants are getting just shy of 12 hours , not getting 8 until mid nov. Imo the best cycle is 12 11 or 10


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## hillbill (Jan 22, 2021)

There are hollows or ravines here that are in deep shade for some time early and late from August on. When the sun comes over the mountains it is already very intense, same with sundown. Lots of weed came from places like this across Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas etc.


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## slacker140 (Jan 22, 2021)

I just read this thread too and am about to start mine on 10/14 in a few weeks. Been vegging at 13/5/1/5 for a few weeks now.


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## led1k (Jan 23, 2021)

slacker140 said:


> I just read this thread too and am about to start mine on 10/14 in a few weeks. Been vegging at 13/5/1/5 for a few weeks now.


What's the story behind the 13/5/1/5?


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## slacker140 (Jan 23, 2021)

led1k said:


> What's the story behind the 13/5/1/5?


This is my first time using glr. But from what I've read, most people abandon glr because they find some of their strains don't like it and have bad growth and some start to flower anyways. But I live in the desert and even just one less hour of lights on helps a lot with heat. I'm more concerned with heat than how fast they can veg. So I just figured I'd start with a slightly modified glr schedule to see if it works out and if not I'll try again but using something more like 13/4.5/2/4.5 next time as I have the midnight lights on with a separate timer using only 23 watts led. So mostly anecdotal but I figured its worth a shot to keep temps down. Arizona heat and my house sucks to deal with it. Same reason I'm going for 10/14 flower. If that works I'll probably try 9/15 as well to see if it works out cause like the op I'm not so concerned with yield.


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2021)

@torontoke I surely do miss our conversations, buddy. Hope all is well with you!


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2021)

For those who haven't seen the rest of his work, @torontoke was running strong lighting in bloom but cutting the length of day way down, at one point as low as 6 hours in 24. He said he got most of the yield of 12 on/12 off with only 8 hours per 24. 

I haven't seen too many people trying to follow in his footsteps as yet, but as prices become more competitive and power bills take up a larger percentage of total costs, I expect to see more.


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## torontoke (Jan 27, 2021)

Someone gave me a heads up that this thread has been bumped so I decided to check it out.

Thanks everyone for the kind words and interest, 

I’m definitely still alive and kicking for now. 
I no longer journal or post anywhere regularly but I’m still chugging along at my own pace.

Hope everyone stays happy and positive through these trying times.
Cheers


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## led1k (Jan 28, 2021)

torontoke said:


> I no longer journal or post anywhere regularly but I’m still chugging along at my own pace.


That suckss... Why no journal or regular posts?


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## torontoke (Jan 29, 2021)

led1k said:


> That suckss... Why no journal or regular posts?


Fair question
I had to really think about how to answer this.
Really wish there was more to it but the last few years have been hectic and full of change.
At a certain time I felt like I was maximizing a 6sq ft grow and felt confident to share the entire thing with everyone. 
Now I have a much lower self esteem and have really struggled. Add the stress of doing renos on a 115 year old house by myself with a disability and one could say I’ve turned into a bit of an asshole/curmudgeon 

Never know what the future holds tho


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## hillbill (Jan 30, 2021)

torontoke said:


> Fair question
> I had to really think about how to answer this.
> Really wish there was more to it but the last few years have been hectic and full of change.
> At a certain time I felt like I was maximizing a 6sq ft grow and felt confident to share the entire thing with everyone.
> ...


This thread changed my light schedule for years now, 10 1/2 on 13 1/2 off and happy as well as productive.

Live long and prosper!


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## led1k (Jan 30, 2021)

torontoke said:


> Fair question
> I had to really think about how to answer this.
> Really wish there was more to it but the last few years have been hectic and full of change.
> At a certain time I felt like I was maximizing a 6sq ft grow and felt confident to share the entire thing with everyone.
> ...


Hang in there man! Be proud af of what you've done. Especially w/ renos and disability ffs.


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## anomalii (Jan 30, 2021)

torontoke said:


> Fair question
> I had to really think about how to answer this.
> Really wish there was more to it but the last few years have been hectic and full of change.
> At a certain time I felt like I was maximizing a 6sq ft grow and felt confident to share the entire thing with everyone.
> ...


You’re not alone


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## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2021)

torontoke said:


> Fair question
> I had to really think about how to answer this.
> Really wish there was more to it but the last few years have been hectic and full of change.
> At a certain time I felt like I was maximizing a 6sq ft grow and felt confident to share the entire thing with everyone.
> ...


Good to hear from you, brother! Renovating an ancient house while feeling with disabilities is nothing short of heroic in my book!

Stay in touch! I'd love to catch up sometime.


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