# Abortion



## heywhatsthatsmell (Dec 22, 2007)

So whats everyones thoughts on abortion Pro-life or Pro-choice thats the topic lets get it started

I am 100% pro-choice

I feel that if a mother and a father together decide that it is not the appropriate time to have a child they should beable to take advantage of the technology we have available to us. 

Reasons-

1. A developing baby is incomplete it may physically be alive but it has no life,no memories, no pain, no suffering. If the only 2 people in the world that it would directly affect decide that its not the right time they should be able to choose

2. My mother had me at around age 20 i wasn't planned, and wasn't wanted. I thus far at 19 have had a horrible horrible life i had moved in with my grandmother and things were a little better but its not until now that i have full control of my life that things are better and turning around. But even still if i could go back in time and my mom thought about having me aborted i would have agreed as to spare myself the misery i faced. 

You might be saying theres other options like foster care or adoption but ive seen what happens to so many of those kids. Ive been in juvenile facilities, counseling groups and talked to them and heard of all there troubles(i have also met some adopted people who turned out good so its not everyone) but i wouldnt want to risk 50-50

I agree with pro choice because ive seen the troubles that face the unplanned child. and can imagine what it does to the parents who can never meet there goals and spend the rest of there life struggling. What im saying is when i do decide to have a child.... my child i want him/her to have the best life i can possibly provide for them. I dont want them to face poverty because i dont have degrees and have a shitty job or any other issues of mine. 

so to beable to have an abortion and spare that child from pain and suffering and wait till your ready so you can give your child the world is very important to me

Also i want to say something in here about you fucking christians trying to get abortion outlawed......Separation of church and state your fucking beliefs and opinions need to be kept to your fucking self. I dont want to be governed by laws that part of someone elses beliefs. I believe a choice is right and to take that from me means we no longer live in a free country but one dictated by the majority religion. Its no different than me saying fine our population is to high after you have 2 children you must have an abortion everytime you get pregnant after. But that wrong right??? EXACTLY because im taking away your freedom to practice your beliefs


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## ViRedd (Dec 22, 2007)

"I am 100% pro-choice"

So why are you trying to foist this religious belief off onto the rest of us? Not a religious belief, you say? Who could be a bigger zealot than a screaming lesbian at a NOW rally carrying an "Abort All Men Now" banner? 

Vi


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## Steve (Dec 22, 2007)

stayin outta this one for sure, this argument gets UUUUGLY everytime


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Dec 22, 2007)

its def. nothing religious... everyone of us has our own values and morals. 90% of this country has some type of religious back ground that they get these morals from. i have come up with my own set of morals based upon my life experiences i have decided what i think is right and wrong which are my personal beliefs. everyone else has there religious beliefs. And in this country it is completely legal for us to have our own beliefs....BUT when a majority of our government is making things illegal based upon there religious beliefs they are no longer separating church from state. Also they are taking away people like myselfs rights. If a christian or any other religious person makes office and gets a law passed making abortion illegal than i will move away... my rights will have been taken from me and someone elses religious beliefs are being forced upon me. You may wonder how their forcing these beliefs upon me well ill explain. Having a choice allows you to do whatever it is in your beliefs. If one couple decides they dont believe in abortion and they decide to have their child and another couple chooses to abort in no way is couples decision affecting the other couple so who is the religious couple against abortion(or our religious filled government) to force their beliefs on the aborting couple????


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Dec 22, 2007)

If you want my opinions super short- IF you think abortion is wrong good for you i respect that but if you think abortion is wrong and you want a law forbidding anyone from having one then FUCK YOU get the fuck out of my country and quit trying to force your opinions on those of us who think differently


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## Lounge (Dec 22, 2007)

I think we have to many extraniouse threads in the forum right now, everyone is home on holiday and we need to keep this a GROWING forum, and our personal lives that; personal.

LOUNGE


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 22, 2007)

JUST be HONEST with yourself and ONE can see the answer...

Making abortion illegal solves nothing.. and people who stand on either side of the fence are the ONEs making the problem... when you let MAN be.. the truth rises to the top...

let people BE! Have faith in humanity... love your man.. and let the rest fall into place...

Abortion is killing a fetus right?
And WAR is killing fetus right?
And smoking is killing fetus right?
And being born leads to death.. correct?

ioveyou


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Dec 22, 2007)

i really just want someone to get on here and explain why they think that abortion should be illegal and how it isn't anti american and why they should have the right to interfere with others lives. does anyone want to tell me??????????????????


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## starchland (Dec 22, 2007)

what does religion have to with abortion? nothing, people always stand on religion as a crutch in so many aspects of life. separate church and state. and another thing, why do people care so much what choices others make? Its their Life, Its their 'problem' if you deem it so. Everyone should be Prochoice, meaning people make their own decision as to what they think is best for them. Do I tell you how to fuck your wife? No. so then why should someone else tell you whether or not to have a baby.


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Dec 22, 2007)

people in the Christian religion supposedly believe that if a child is aborted it cannot be saved and therefore never forgiven of there original sin so they will go to hell...they also think the same about still born babies


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## gardenandcats (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm pro choice. I firmly believe if your against abortion then don't have one!


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 22, 2007)

heywhatsthatsmell said:


> people in the Christian religion supposedly believe that if a child is aborted it cannot be saved and therefore never forgiven of there original sin so they will go to hell...they also think the same about still born babies


WTF you talking about the Christian religion believes that. Point me to where in the Bible it says that... I think you meant to say some Christians believe...
I don't know if abortion should be illegal but it definitely should be regulated. Some people use that as their birth control... I think it's fucked up that some whore can go sleep around with no protection and then when something bad happens go have the kid kill. And then just do it again 3 or 4 months laters or whenever it is her whoreing catches up to her.


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## bearo420 (Dec 23, 2007)

dude, who the fuck wishes they were aborted. i cant believe noone commented that he says I wish my mom aborted him. You wouldnt be here now complaining right now about the very life your living. very american of you my friend. your breathing eating, smoking, have technology of a computer, and internet, and you want to have been aborted rather than deal with all of lifes hardships. ahahahahahah theres people out there born with no legs, all kinds of imperfections, shit that makes you want to cry and heres you . are you fucking thinking right now. your thought of wanting to be aborted wouldnt have existed had your mom not followed her damned instinct to produce. cry cry cry, i cant believe my mom had me, wah wah wah. what was she thinking, hahahaha. craziest thing ever. 

dude, you need help, talk to someone , dont kill yourself, theres no after, theres just now. from dust to dust, your not going to look back as some angel at the world, your going to be in a box in the ground, getting put back into the ground to fertilize something that wants to live. 

and obviously abortion is wrong. humans are animals. instinct tells us have kids, instinct also says fuck every girl you can, so we all want sex. when its time to continue the future, you cop out and kill it. doesnt sound right to me. stop being selfish, that thing is living, were all living things, even our plants. but I guess you look at kids like plants, ill just kill this one, its too early to be flowering. human life on the level of a plant.

we are another animal plain and simple. if you cant see that then open your eyes. animals in the wild kill there kids for many reasons. and they have that choice. Im not saying you cant abort your child, you actually do have that choice, but call it what it is. your simply killing your kid , there may be a reason cause you cant handle it or afford it or its from a guy that raped you, whatever the reason, your killing the kid.

its nature. lets be honest, I dont need a doctor to tell me the thin line between oh your not really killing it cause blah blah blah, if you did nothing it would be a living breathing thing, so you stop that, you kill it. 

if it kills like a human, walks like a human, will become human, call it what it is, a killer. 

be honest. animals kill theyre kids all the times. so do crackheads. its instinct. be honest with yourself and to think if your mom had aborted you then I wouldnt have been able to have this laugh today all the way over here.


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Dec 23, 2007)

to i blaze that kush: your right should have said some but im more refering to the christians in all these rallies to make it illegal, also i agree that there needs to be regulated and there are alot of regulations as of right now.


to bearo420: first off fuck you, you dont have half a clue to how my childhood went and the shit i had to go through...easy for some little spoiled bitch to look down on someone. Second i never said a fucking thing about killing myself now im past all that anything that goes on from this point out is my problems their not problems created by my bitch of a mother. I dont believe in after life souls higher powers or any of that nonsense so if i had been aborted i obviously wouldnt or couldnt have cared. And you can say its whining that i just didnt want to put up with the hardships but why did i have to.....Now also you said that its just a way out for a scared parent well im sorry but i wouldnt want to have a child knowing that i couldnt properly take care of them.

ok i do agree with you on one thing an abortion is not birth control. to show no dicipline and control is ignorant. At that point i could agree with someone saying they were a killer. Birth control shouldnt be used as a way to help yourself but only as a way to prevent your child from dealing with major hardships


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## ToastedFox (Dec 23, 2007)

People seem to think I am very cynical when I say my opinion on this.. I see it as tell the baby can survive outside the womb of the mother, it is no different then any physical part of the mother that she should have the choice of removing if wanted.


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Dec 23, 2007)

i agree with you on that


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## bearo420 (Dec 23, 2007)

2. My mother had me at around age 20 i wasn't planned, and wasn't wanted. I thus far at 19 have had a horrible horrible life i had moved in with my grandmother and things were a little better but its not until now that i have full control of my life that things are better and turning around. But even still if i could go back in time and my mom thought about having me aborted i would have agreed as to spare myself the misery i faced. 



sounds like you want to die to me. if they aborted you youd be dead. so you want to die no?


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## twostarhotel (Dec 23, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> I don't know if abortion should be illegal but it definitely should be regulated. Some people use that as their birth control... I think it's fucked up that some whore can go sleep around with no protection and then when something bad happens go have the kid kill. And then just do it again 3 or 4 months laters or whenever it is her whoreing catches up to her.


yes bro!! people have got to start thinking more reasonably! its not about christians, or satanists, or hippies, or whores its about whats its become .
abortion has become an option for people with no disipline. it needs to be regulated ! because theres always cause and effect. and theres always people who have been victims who need help, there needs to be an all around new outlook and change.


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 23, 2007)

twostarhotel said:


> it needs to be regulated ! because theres always cause and effect.



We should also regulate

BREATHING
TALKING
EATING
WALKING
RUNNING
FUCKING

and the list goes on and on....


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Dec 23, 2007)

bearo you really are a stupid fucker if your gonna put words in my mouth than get your fuckin ass out of this thread its open for anyone who can actually make worth while points no matter what side your on. You just have no legitimate ideas so you have to try and twist what im saying.


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## twostarhotel (Dec 23, 2007)

not all those things result in having an abortion for an option
think logicaly


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## starchland (Dec 24, 2007)

the reason everyone is here because they love an argument. this argument is done to death and everyone knows it and the fact that nothing is ever decided nor does any _side_ win. were just here to be entertained through the drama and if were lucky get some peeps riled up.


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Dec 24, 2007)

of course but it also gives you practice in your arguement and persuasion skills for when it really does matter


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## IPokeSmot (Dec 27, 2007)

Pro Choice. Your body, do what you want with it.
I dont agree with using abortion as a method of birth control (Met a girl once who had 3 abortions, or so she says), for fucks sake take a PILL or close your frickken legs.


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## Pizip (Dec 27, 2007)

heywhatsthatsmell said:


> people in the Christian religion supposedly believe that if a child is aborted it cannot be saved and therefore never forgiven of there original sin so they will go to hell...they also think the same about still born babies




Im a christian and my family in general doesn't even believe in that. especially at times like this nobody christian is really worrying about this.

It's truly nothing to argue about at this point. Its that person's choice to do something like that. 

Oh and about the going to hell thing. If you really knew about this you would know that as being born and once your in your teens like 13 thats when your held accountable for your actions, and it is up to you, to repent your sins.

im just saying that because babies don't go to hell, they didn't even do anything yet. Its not their fault.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 27, 2007)

IPokeSmot said:


> Pro Choice. Your body, do what you want with it.
> I dont agree with using abortion as a method of birth control (Met a girl once who had 3 abortions, or so she says), for fucks sake take a PILL or close your frickken legs.


Pokey, what's up? Where the fuck you been?


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## goatamineHcL (Dec 27, 2007)

pro choice all the way we have too many people on the planet as it is we dont need peopl;e having babies they cant take care of


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## IPokeSmot (Dec 27, 2007)

whazzuuuuuuuuuuuup. been a busy girl this year  
i try to poke (heh) in every now and then.


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## Mr.Sleepy (Dec 28, 2007)

100 years ago if a mother and father made the decision to have a child then decided they didn't wnat it that was tuff shit...they had the kid....were exiled...fucking raised that little bastard and the family became stronger....or fell apart due to low income or something...100 years ago abortion was throwing your baby off a cliff....now adays thats murder....but so is abortion....just has a pretty name that sounds all nice and sciency is all. hell whats not to love though rite....i mean get screw happy with everyone and anyone you want and the only consequences you'll have are a couple of sore bumps that puss but hey with a little ointment for fifteen dollars that'll go away a kid'l be there for 18 years minimum.....but yah....abortion is merely an excuse to spread the seed....and plaguehahaha...


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## Mr.Sleepy (Dec 28, 2007)

P.s. this thread is retarded....and pokey needs to find a singles website not a growing site ....


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## oneyearorange (Dec 28, 2007)

You know they might take your right to choose away girls, but they will never take your right to get drunk and throw your self down a flight of stairs away! Cuz you cant arrest gravity fucko! Yeah thats right, thank the "I" man for that! Not Imus! Isac fucking Newton! That fucker has given us so much joy. Whether it's America's funniest home video's, babies falling down, or really cheap abortions. 

That one was deliciously evil wasn't it? It was funny yet sad. Kind of like being tit fucked by a clown.


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## oneyearorange (Dec 28, 2007)

Dave Attel quote above!


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## ViRedd (Dec 28, 2007)

The heartbeat of a fetus can be detected at 18 days. If we, as humans, have decided to eliminate life in the womb because of inconvenience, how soon will we be deciding to rid ourselves of other life that we deem inconvenient? Think about it ... How about that 80-year-old who is infirmed. How about that handicapped child? How about those homeless people living in the cardboard boxes and under bridges? Ahh, yes ... in another time, in another place, this was tried ... and the results were millions upon millions of human beings being sacrificed to the higher good of the State in Nazi Germany. 

If we are aborting human beings in the womb because we consider them to be less than human, isn't that the same mentality as that possessed by the slave masters as they filled the cargo holds to capacity with Africans to be used as mere oxen to plow our fields and pick our cotton?

Think about it ...

Vi


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## oneyearorange (Dec 28, 2007)

I dont know about you but when those 80 year olds get behind the wheel thats reason enough for me.


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## natrone23 (Dec 28, 2007)

Oh what a slippery slope.....................first your aborting a fetus........next your killing millions in gas chambers...........How long has abortion been around ? have americans started to kill handicapped children or killed grampa because he was old?................................Oh yes i have a similar analogy.........first you start to smoke pot then the next thing you know kids are shooting heroin into their veins, going physcotic and jumping out of windows and killing people...............(Oh wait its always good to throw in Nazi reference in there too)............and remember first kids smoke pot (remember slipery slope) then they become Nazis..........See its an obvious progression


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## natrone23 (Dec 28, 2007)

Before you can even light that after sex smoke, there is third person in the room


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## twostarhotel (Dec 28, 2007)

hahahahaha oh shit thats funny


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## Hanky (Dec 28, 2007)

well.. i'm not going to build on anything anyone said yet to avoid flaming.. So here's how I see it.
Abortions should be legal. But it should be STRICTLY regulated and the fetus' should go to medical research. The whole problem people have is that in their minds you're killing a child. This isn't very thought out because if you think of it that way then not having sex in the first place is killing a child. The child has no memories, experiences, etc. So if you stop the baby from being born before it even realizes it's alive is no different than just not getting pregnant in the first place.. At least for the baby and isn't this supposed to be about the baby?
As for the religious part of the issue.. Suck it up everyone. It's not the religion making decisions for people. People are making decisions. Rather they learned the morals used to make those decisions through their religion or not doesn't matter... It's still their decision.
So.. yer.. :S.


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## starchland (Dec 29, 2007)

ViRedd said:


> The heartbeat of a fetus can be detected at 18 days. If we, as humans, have decided to eliminate life in the womb because of inconvenience, how soon will we be deciding to rid ourselves of other life that we deem inconvenient? Think about it ... How about that 80-year-old who is infirmed. How about that handicapped child? How about those homeless people living in the cardboard boxes and under bridges? Ahh, yes ... in another time, in another place, this was tried ... and the results were millions upon millions of human beings being sacrificed to the higher good of the State in Nazi Germany.
> 
> If we are aborting human beings in the womb because we consider them to be less than human, isn't that the same mentality as that possessed by the slave masters as they filled the cargo holds to capacity with Africans to be used as mere oxen to plow our fields and pick our cotton?
> 
> ...


a heartbeat sure, but no memories or feeling


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 29, 2007)

ViRedd said:


> The heartbeat of a fetus can be detected at 18 days. If we, as humans, have decided to eliminate life in the womb because of inconvenience, how soon will we be deciding to rid ourselves of other life that we deem inconvenient? Think about it ... How about that 80-year-old who is infirmed. How about that handicapped child? How about those homeless people living in the cardboard boxes and under bridges? Ahh, yes ... in another time, in another place, this was tried ... and the results were millions upon millions of human beings being sacrificed to the higher good of the State in Nazi Germany.
> 
> If we are aborting human beings in the womb because we consider them to be less than human, isn't that the same mentality as that possessed by the slave masters as they filled the cargo holds to capacity with Africans to be used as mere oxen to plow our fields and pick our cotton?
> 
> ...


Yeah but there's already too many people in this world to let an unwanted kid who will probably have a shitty life in. It's the woman's choice, who are we to judge what she does with her body? And don't come at me with the, well if that's ok why can't she kill her 5 yr old who is unwanted. Until it comes out of her body, I say it is hers to do what she wants with....Morally though, I'm right there with you. If I accidently got a girl pregnant, no way would I let her have an abortion.


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## ViRedd (Dec 29, 2007)

"Morally though, I'm right there with you. If I accidently got a girl pregnant, no way would I let her have an abortion."

Good. And that's exactly what it is, a moral decision. The decision to abort is an immoral decision.

Abortion transcends the need for personal responsibility. Abortion is anti-human and anti-Man. 

"Oh what a slippery slope.....................first your aborting a fetus........next your killing millions in gas chambers...........How long has abortion been around ? have americans started to kill handicapped children or killed grampa because he was old?"

How long have gas chambers been around?

Abortion is a mindset that IS the beginning of the slippery slope.

I'm talking about a mindset here, not debating politics or religion. 

Vi


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 29, 2007)

since your talking about mindset...

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MORALS 

MORALS ARE MADE UP.. just like LAWS and RELIGION and other MIND MADE creations.. when you believe th mind, you are delusional!!

SO what else is there besides the mind?

STOP thinking for just 1 second and start to experience truth.. truth is not something anybody can share with you.. TRUTH is YOU...

stop lying to yourself and saying that abortion is WRONG or ABORTION is right..

YOUR stance on abortion is the problem.. it does not matter which side of the argument you stand on.. both sides are a distraction from the truth..

people who are the truth would probably never have an abortion nor would they ever judge somebody who did have an abortion...

just like the truth would probably never KILL another being.. if it mentthe deathof itself.. because.. LIFE goes on forever... 

NOW stop arguing with yourself.. and go inside to the stillness and find become the truth

iloveyou


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## ViRedd (Dec 29, 2007)

i love you too, GK.

"NOW stop arguing with yourself.. and go inside to the stillness _*and find become the truth"*_

???? 

Vi


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 29, 2007)

ViRedd said:


> i love you too, GK.
> 
> "NOW stop arguing with yourself.. and go inside to the stillness _*and find become the truth"*_
> 
> ...




good point

thanks


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 29, 2007)

ViRedd said:


> "I am 100% pro-choice"
> 
> So why are you trying to foist this religious belief off onto the rest of us? Not a religious belief, you say? Who could be a bigger zealot than a screaming lesbian at a NOW rally carrying an "Abort All Men Now" banner?
> 
> Vi


This arguement holds no water, as he said "pro-choice" not "EVERYBODY GET ABORTED!"


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 29, 2007)

bearo420 said:


> dude, who the fuck wishes they were aborted. i cant believe noone commented that he says I wish my mom aborted him. You wouldnt be here now complaining right now about the very life your living. very american of you my friend. your breathing eating, smoking, have technology of a computer, and internet, and you want to have been aborted rather than deal with all of lifes hardships. ahahahahahah theres people out there born with no legs, all kinds of imperfections, shit that makes you want to cry and heres you . are you fucking thinking right now. your thought of wanting to be aborted wouldnt have existed had your mom not followed her damned instinct to produce. cry cry cry, i cant believe my mom had me, wah wah wah. what was she thinking, hahahaha. craziest thing ever.
> 
> dude, you need help, talk to someone , dont kill yourself, theres no after, theres just now. from dust to dust, your not going to look back as some angel at the world, your going to be in a box in the ground, getting put back into the ground to fertilize something that wants to live.
> 
> ...


 
Plants and humans _are_ equal levels of life...
No plant=no food + no oxygen. Can you make food from sunlight?


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 29, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> since your talking about mindset...
> 
> THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MORALS
> 
> ...


 
GK, I love you man, and you are so right on with your beliefs...but do you not find it a bit hypocritical that you then intend to impose upon others the thoughts that you possess? Are you not delusional to _not_ believe in the mind? Are not all sides important? Is not the mind and society and physical and metaphysical aspects (as well as any others that may exist) as important as being truth?


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 29, 2007)

oneyearorange said:


> You know they might take your right to choose away girls, but they will never take your right to get drunk and throw your self down a flight of stairs away! Cuz you cant arrest gravity fucko! Yeah thats right, thank the "I" man for that! Not Imus! Isac fucking Newton! That fucker has given us so much joy. Whether it's America's funniest home video's, babies falling down, or really cheap abortions.
> 
> That one was deliciously evil wasn't it? It was funny yet sad. Kind of like being tit fucked by a clown.


 
Lol. So what, before the Enlightenment, gravity didn't exist?


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 29, 2007)

ViRedd said:


> The heartbeat of a fetus can be detected at 18 days. If we, as humans, have decided to eliminate life in the womb because of inconvenience, how soon will we be deciding to rid ourselves of other life that we deem inconvenient? Think about it ... How about that 80-year-old who is infirmed. How about that handicapped child? How about those homeless people living in the cardboard boxes and under bridges? Ahh, yes ... in another time, in another place, this was tried ... and the results were millions upon millions of human beings being sacrificed to the higher good of the State in Nazi Germany.
> 
> If we are aborting human beings in the womb because we consider them to be less than human, isn't that the same mentality as that possessed by the slave masters as they filled the cargo holds to capacity with Africans to be used as mere oxen to plow our fields and pick our cotton?
> 
> ...


Yo. We already are ridding ourselves of inconvienence. Have been. We don't live anything like we used to because of _convience_. ( I mean like, hunting for food, making all our own stuff, and actually living with the Earth, not making it our bitch...well, I suppose someone was making it their bitch pretty early, else all this stuff wouldn't be here)

Houses. Heat. Air Conditioning. Indoor plumbing. Grocery stores. Cars. Gas stations. Guns. Missiles. Electricity. Think about it...




(The guns and missiles are a bit morbid, but it really was because killing people in other fashions (such as hand to hand, or hitting them with something, or bow and arrows) were not effecient enough, therefore inconvienent. thus, more expedient options were created)


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 29, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> GK, I love you man, and you are so right on with your beliefs...but do you not find it a bit hypocritical that you then intend to impose upon others the thoughts that you possess? Are you not delusional to _not_ believe in the mind? Are not all sides important? Is not the mind and society and physical and metaphysical aspects (as well as any others that may exist) as important as being truth?


Hello WHAT..

I am going to try and answer your post...

.but do you not find it a bit hypocritical that you then intend to impose upon others the thoughts that you possess?
1. I am usually not trying to impose my thoughts and often my thoughts are merley sign posts POINTING at what can otherwise NOT be talked about BUT only pointed at. 

When I do impose my thoughts onto others, I am probably doing it because I feel insecure about a *thought*... the thought is probably NOT true and I need HELP from other MINDS to maintain my delusion... THIS is what MOST talking IS.... talking is usually support for others or trying to get support from others for MAINTENANCE of our own delusion - false identity.
IT is a really twisted world of drones.. iloveyou So I would say it is INSECURITY on my part not hypocritical BUT i could be wrong..

Are you not delusional to _not_ believe in the mind?
TO realize what it IS that can witness the mind.. that which neither believes or disbelieves the mind... to become what ONLY loves, is NOT delusional.. THE MIND can never present ONE with the truth.

IT is just a DOING TOOL... it constantly has thoughts it is presenting TO you... UNFORTUNATELY most people have forgtten that these thoughts are just coming in automatically and now they think they ARE actually thinking.. People actually think that they think.. LOL... and they actually think they have a CHOICE..

BUT the only choice is to STOP thinking... to stop reacting to thought.. and then ONE awakens... does this make sense to YOU?

iloveyou
Are not all sides important?
None of the sides are important

Is not the mind and society and physical and metaphysical aspects (as well as any others that may exist) as important as being truth?
The mind would say yes or it might say no... what is the difference...
It does not matter to one that has transcended the mind... the "argument" is nothing but an exercise for the mind... from the perspective of one who is enlightened.. 

and for somebody who is not enlightened... the "argument" BUILDs and BOLSTER the false sense of identity based in the tiny PEANUT called mind..

iloveyou

How do I know what reality is?
When I stop thinking, everything I have left is real.

How do I know when i am not in reality?
When I suffer or I am agitated or I am not settled, I am not in reality, I am resisting what is.


iloveyou


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 29, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> Hello WHAT..
> 
> I am going to try and answer your post...
> 
> ...


quite. Though, i would like to respond, for to me it has not become so simple as of yet. I realize, as I go through my thoughts (I know that thoughts are unconcious and that they just arrive. still, I often think. I don't feel comfortable enough with the world's situation as is to turn of my thinking very often (even though it is quite enjoyable it doesn't seem to solve much when difficulties arise), that I often am hesitant to rest simply...Simple and complicated are elements of perception. Ecstacy and enlightenment, bliss and perfection are only because of perspective.


1. I am usually not trying to impose my thoughts and often my thoughts are merley sign posts POINTING at what can otherwise NOT be talked about BUT only pointed at. 

I agree. It's not often that I attempt to convince or impose upon others, but I realize that it may be perceived as such, since I am not in the minds of others.

TO realize what it IS that can witness the mind.. that which neither believes or disbelieves the mind... to become what ONLY loves, is NOT delusional.. *THE MIND can never present ONE with the truth.*

Aye, agreed. But this, I feel, isn't something that can be acheived without experience. I've only reached the point where I realize it's difficult to acheive truth, as it is only perspective. EVERYTHING is perspective. And I wish to be able to perceive as much variation as fits my state of mind at the time.

IT is just a DOING TOOL... it constantly has thoughts it is presenting TO you... UNFORTUNATELY most people have forgtten that these thoughts are just coming in automatically and now they think they ARE actually thinking.. People actually think that they think.. LOL... and they actually think they have a CHOICE..

BUT the only choice is to STOP thinking... to stop reacting to thought.. and then ONE awakens... does this make sense to YOU? 

Yes, thinking is natural and automatic. I do not think to think, as that gets me nowhere. This I have experienced. But, to me, there is a choice. The choice is what to do. Some believe that this is no choice at all if you follow yourself. Which I can agree with, but not entirely as it is a single perception. Are there not, at times, conflicting options that may both correspond with the person's awakened self? 

If thought is automatic and you do not react to it...how do you act? Thought can even become unconcious, yet even so remains evident. How is one to know when reactions to the mind are existent or absent? I find myself completely shut off from thought at times, yet I am at a loss as to how to maintain this as a way of life. To me it is an element in the cycle, that may be acheived or lost with no particular place upon the path...perhaps, for lack of another word, "infinite" manners in which to acheive. I do not know. I can not _know_ (as in the concious form), yet it is possible that I may know (as the unconcious form).


Are not all sides important?
None of the sides are important

Isn't nothing as evident as everything?


(I cede, perhaps, it is my inability to cease catagorizing into "this" and "that" that perhaps i cannot view longtime awareness. I don't know)


How do I know what reality is?
When I stop thinking, everything I have left is real. 

If you aren't thinking, how do you...understand (I don't feel like english has an adequate word for what i wanted to say)




How do I know when i am not in reality?
When I suffer or I am agitated or I am not settled, I am not in reality, I am resisting what is. 

To me, reality is perception, perception is reality. Therefore, what you perceive is what is. If you are agitated or unsettled, it is how it is. ...This even applies to itself. And so I am hesitant to accept this as truth, as the way that _I_ see it, this is your perception of reality. I do not try to discredit it. I do not say that it is wrong. I only state that it _may_ be incomplete. I believe, from inter- and intra-personal experience (as well as a bit of historical evidence, though i recognize the possibilty for incomplete knowledge from past occurances), that a reality is what one makes it for themself. And what is, is. Perception may change from person to person, mind to mind, thought to thought, moment to moment; but the change is inherent and included. 




...while writing i realized the inadequacies of the mind. yet i feel it would be rash and rushed to forsake it without further understanding.....stability is important as well, for otherwise you may disrupt yourself and (depending on a view of time) slow yourself in self-progression.


----------



## Garden Knowm (Dec 29, 2007)

YES!!!!!

iloveyou


----------



## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 29, 2007)

Love you too man   :love:


----------



## ViRedd (Dec 30, 2007)

And now back to the abortion issue ... 

I still contend that the desire to abort, or being against abortion is not a religious issue. It is an anti-Man and Pro-Man issue. 

WhatAmIdoing sez:

"This argument holds no water, as he said "pro-choice" not "EVERYBODY GET ABORTED!" 

Call it what you want. The term "pro-choice" is used by the pro-abortionist lobby and their propaganda outlets because its a comfortable term to use in place of Pro-Death. Ask yourself why it is that you/we never see an abortion depicted on TV. Abortion is nothing more than a form of population control. Those in favor of population control have commandeered popular opinion through their propaganda mills ... namely the Democratic Party and the controlled media. Do a little research. Who founded Planned Parenthood? What were her goals? What were her politics? Do a simple google search for the answers.

Here's a little info on Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood: 


Abortion Facts - Information on abortion you can use​ 
A Plan for Peace​ 
_MARGARET SANGER_
(founder of Planned Parenthood)​ 
Summary of address before the New Historical
Society, January 17th, New York City ​ 
First, put into action President Wilson's fourteen points, upon which terms Germany and Austria surrendered to the Allies in 1918. 

Second, have Congress set up a special department for the study of population problems and appoint a Parliament of Population, the directors representing the various branches of science: this body to direct and control the population through birth rates and immigration, and to direct its distribution over the country according to national needs consistent with taste, fitness and interest of the individuals. 

The main object of the Population Congress would be: 

*a.* to raise the level and increase the intelligence of the population. 
*b.* to increase the population slowly by keeping the birth rate at its present level of fifteen per thousand, decreasing the death rate below its present mark of 11 per thousand. 
*c.* to keep the doors of immigration closed to the entrance of certain aliens whose condition is known to be detrimental to the stamina of the race, such as feebleminded, idiots, morons, insane, syphilitic, epileptic, criminal, professional prostitutes, and others in this class barred by the immigration laws of 1924. 
*d.* to apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring. 
*e.* to insure the country against future burdens of maintenance for numerous offspring as may be born of feebleminded parents, by pensioning all persons with transmissible disease who voluntarily consent to sterilization. 
*f.* to give certain dysgenic groups in our population their choice of segregation or sterilization. 
*g.* to apportion farm lands and homesteads for these segregated persons where they would be taught to work under competent instructors for the period of their entire lives. 

As I said in another post ... In another time, in another place, millions were sacrificed in the name of the God State.

The agendas of Planned Parenthood, in its original intent was very much akin to Huxley's _"Brave New World."_ If you haven't read the book, I highly recommend it. Also read Orwell's _"1984."_ Another good one is Orwell's _"Animal Farm." _

Vi





</IMG>


----------



## Garden Knowm (Dec 30, 2007)

ViRedd said:


> I still contend that the desire to abort, or being against abortion is not a religious issue. It is an anti-Man and Pro-Man issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GREAT, whatever it takes for you to be happy..

make it an issue between micky mouse and donald duck..

make it an issue between your belly button and your anus

I HAVE AN IDEA.. HOW ABOUT WE DON'T MAKE IT ANYTHING EXCEPT WHAT IT *IS*!!!

and since you don't know what it is.. just sit on the side line... and keep your pie hole shut until you realize that you can't know what it is..

this is just a suggestion of course

iloveyou VI!


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## twostarhotel (Dec 30, 2007)

in a wonderful world of christians, they belive that if all things went as planned, couple married as virgins, had kids then they got married as vigins.
i cant think of any reason they would choose abortion for anything.
so if one came up there thinking, what the hell?
there are no anti abortion specific bible verses i can think of so the only way it became a religious idea has gotta be because the idea of the whole thing has become so corrupted and manipulated, there just thinking this woudlnt have happend if you listend to me


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 30, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> GREAT, whatever it takes for you to be happy..
> 
> make it an issue between micky mouse and donald duck..
> 
> ...


lol. 




and now some random words so this post is at least ten characters long....


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## ViRedd (Dec 31, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> GREAT, whatever it takes for you to be happy..
> 
> make it an issue between micky mouse and donald duck..
> 
> ...


But, I DO know what abortion is, GK. Its an extermination of a life. 

Saline solution is great, isn't it?


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## DMTER (Dec 31, 2007)

I just found out im gonna be a dad a week ago and there is NO WAY i could ever have an abortion knowing that it is my creation. Its true im terrified and not really ready but I think its important to take responsibility for your actions and not just run away. I am pro-choice I just believe there needs to be strict guidelines for abortions like a little girl gets raped she should be able to have the choice (the reason i think its ok is an 11 year old girl has alot of risks of death and complications and has no control over getting raped) now a rich slutty chick gets pregnent she needs to own up to it and take care of the little tike. If you have a kid you need to take care of it even if you dont want to are you gonna kill your dad because he gets dementia and needs you to take care of him? These are just my thoughts and please dont get all in my shit if you dont agree with me im just sharing how I feel PEACE.


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## kochab (Dec 31, 2007)

DMTER said:


> I just found out im gonna be a dad a week ago and there is NO WAY i could ever have an abortion knowing that it is my creation. Its true im terrified and not really ready but I think its important to take responsibility for your actions and not just run away. I am pro-choice I just believe there needs to be strict guidelines for abortions like a little girl gets raped she should be able to have the choice (the reason i think its ok is an 11 year old girl has alot of risks of death and complications and has no control over getting raped) now a rich slutty chick gets pregnent she needs to own up to it and take care of the little tike. If you have a kid you need to take care of it even if you dont want to are you gonna kill your dad because he gets dementia and needs you to take care of him? These are just my thoughts and please dont get all in my shit if you dont agree with me im just sharing how I feel PEACE.


I agree with you 100% People are using abortion as a form of birth control and that is just plan stupid. Hey here is a thought if you dont want to get pregnant dont have sex, there are responsibilities for your every action think about it. There are people out there who cant have kids at least give them a chance, you got yours. And for the person that obviously knows nothing about Christianity if a child is killed or dies for what ever reason it goes to heaven, if you know nothing on this subject you may want to read your bible. Oh and here is a thought if you dont have one get one. Stop whinnying about your child hood not everyone has a good one but you know what that is the wonderful thing about being an American you make yourself what you want to be when you get older. People are looking for an easy way out and that is not even right life is not easy learn to deal with it. If you dont want kids get fixed dont kill an innocent life because you are too stupid to do something to prevent it. I think the people that get raped it is anther story, there choice was taken away, but there are plenty that have had kids out of a rape and you know what yes its hard but most of the time every one turns out alright. If something is happening with the pregnancy and it is going to kill you or the child then yes you should have a choice, but for someone that is too stupid to make the correct choice from the beginning then you already made your choice live with it. If you dont think you are capable of being a parent then give it to someone that is at least give them the chance that was given to you. To live.
This is not Kochab this is his wife.


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## ViRedd (Jan 1, 2008)

Finally, some reasonable people posting on the subject. 

Vi


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## kochab (Jan 1, 2008)

oneyearorange said:


> I dont know about you but when those 80 year olds get behind the wheel thats reason enough for me.



just remember that you will be 80 at one time in your life hummmm should we kill you
this is not kochab this is his wife


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## oneyearorange (Jan 1, 2008)

kochab said:


> just remember that you will be 80 at one time in your life hummmm should we kill you
> this is not kochab this is his wife


Dude believe me when I'm to old to walk, drive, wipe my own ass I will definatley bite a bullet.


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 1, 2008)

oneyearorange said:


> Dude believe me when I'm to old to walk, drive, wipe my own ass I will definatley bite a bullet.



not me... when I am old I am gonna enjoy shitting my pants... smoking cigarettes... and making obscene gesture to your wife.. and probably kochab's wife 

iloveyou


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## natrone23 (Jan 2, 2008)

kochab said:


> just remember that you will be 80 at one time in your life hummmm should we kill you
> this is not kochab this is his wife


kochabs wife do you really believe that he believes we should kill old people because of their poor driving? You need to go and find a sense of humor because that is pathetic


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## oneyearorange (Jan 2, 2008)

Dude I'm serious! I want to kill all old people!


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## kochab (Jan 2, 2008)

humm lets see I think he answered that for you.~kochabs wife

garden knowm, ill be shooting rocks @ you from my rocker with a slingshot......~kochab


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## starchland (Jan 2, 2008)

driving is key to a successful life, if you cant drive, then you should be killed.


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## ViRedd (Jan 2, 2008)

Driving is "key" to a successful life? Please define "success." Thanks ...

Vi


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 2, 2008)

kochab said:


> garden knowm, ill be shooting rocks @ you from my rocker with a slingshot......~kochab



do you really think that scares me...???

YOU CLEARLY don't understand... how fooking jacked up i will be on VIAGRA.



iloveyou


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## iblazethatkush (Jan 2, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> do you really think that scares me...???
> 
> YOU CLEARLY don't understand... how fooking jacked up i will be on VIAGRA.
> 
> ...


Fuck yeah. I like your style. I'm gonna be all jacked up on viagra and extacy when I'm old...Not to mention weed and pills...Think about it, we're going to be a cool ass generation of old people...Not like old people today. Old people nowadays are lame b/c they grew up in the 40's and 50's. My grandma is the only cool old person I know, she's still toking strong...Wait, how the fuck did I get off on this tangent. (I'm very high right now)...Oh yeah, don't kill old ppl. It'll be cool when we're old. We won't have to work or do shit and we'll still like getting high. It will be fun.


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## oneyearorange (Jan 2, 2008)

I love old people and would never harm one. I am always the first to hold the door for an old person or help them into there car. Even though they can't see over the steering wheel in there car I still love them.


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## oneyearorange (Jan 2, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> But, I DO know what abortion is, GK. Its an extermination of a life.
> 
> Saline solution is great, isn't it?


Oh yeah and, dude no one wants to see picture's of you when you were a baby. It's uncalled for.


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## iblazethatkush (Jan 2, 2008)

WTF I didn't need to see that.


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## oneyearorange (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey I didn't originally post that shit.


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## EarthlyPassions (Jan 2, 2008)

DMTER said:


> I just found out im gonna be a dad a week ago and there is NO WAY i could ever have an abortion knowing that it is my creation. Its true im terrified and not really ready but I think its important to take responsibility for your actions and not just run away.


Congratulations, I'm sure that if you put your heart into it you'll do a good job of things. Remember to sleep when the baby sleeps, and that everything your babies' momma/wife/girlfriend says that upsets you is just the hormones talking. 


DMTER said:


> I am pro-choice I just believe there needs to be strict guidelines for abortions like a little girl gets raped she should be able to have the choice (the reason i think its ok is an 11 year old girl has alot of *risks of death and complications* and has no control over getting raped) now a rich *slutty chick* gets pregnent she needs to own up to it and take care of the little tike.


This is where it gets complicated. What if the young girl (thirteen is a more realistic age, as fertility kicks in around twelve) consented to the advances of her older boyfriend? Does this make her a slut enough to be punished with childbirth and pregnancy, as well as the dangers you mentioned? 

Obviously, she is still a child, and should not be held responsible. But then again, she probably knew where babies come from at that age, I certainly did, and she did choose to have sex. 
This is where I see her not thinking about babies and consequences, but simply wanting to please her boyfriend and hopefully enjoy this wonderful activity called sex that everyone is talking about.

It's so simple to forget what it's like to get caught up in the moment, to make an honest mistake, or to simply risk things for the sake of living in the moment. How miserable life would be if we were all caught, right now, for all the *illegal* things we might be doing in our lives. (growing pot anyone?)

It's human to make bad decisions, and to want a way out when we do. Who are we to deny someone else a chance to fix their mistakes?


DMTER said:


> If you have a kid you need to take care of it even if you dont want to are you gonna kill your dad because he gets dementia and needs you to take care of him?


Of course not, I'll take him to a nursing home so he can get proper care, and visit him when I can.
Also, it's not a kid, it's an embryo, in over 80% of abortion cases,(first trimester=no heartbeat).


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## closet.cult (Jan 3, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> The heartbeat of a fetus can be detected at 18 days.





starchland said:


> a heartbeat sure, but no memories or feeling


That didn't stop them from keeping Terri Shivo alive for like 16 years on life support. 

Seriously, It feels emotionally wrong to end the life of a little developing person. And if you can't do that for any reason, congratulations, you are exibiting responsibility for your actions as an adult.

Opponants of abortion wil only ever make a case for murder. Any other ideological reason will fail to pass thru legislation. But there is a real difference in killing a thinking, aware person and terminating the cellular division process of a bunch of stem cells, isn't there?

In the end, remove the straw man argument of the diseased spreading whore and consider a middle class, married couple who have just discovered they are pregnant and would have to bring up a child in a debt-ridden, two income household, subsequently reduced to one income.

I believe a compassionate nation would allow for a window of time for this couple to meditate on this major life choice and make the best decision for their future.

Any regulation on the proceedure of abortion sounds alot like punishment to me for someone who just had to make a very emotional decision they must live with for the rest of their life.


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 3, 2008)

closet.cult said:


> That didn't stop them from keeping Terri Shivo alive for like 16 years on life support.
> 
> Seriously, It feels emotionally wrong to end the life of a little developing person. And if you can't do that for any reason, congratulations, you are exibiting responsibility for your actions as an adult.
> 
> ...



godam!!!! you are one sane mother fluffa.... 

in this post.. i feel a breath of fresh air just blew into this thread..

i want to stand on a chair and clap as you enter the room and maybe nominate you for the peace prize..

iloveyou

KILLING babies is wrong...
TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO IS THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME WE CAN PLAY WITH CIVILIZATION... 

imagine a balloon.. and when you squeeze one end, all the air goes to another end and pops up in this weird as bubble shape.. it looks like the balloon is gonna pop and it looks painful.. this is what happens when you try and stop a man from doing what he is GOING to do.. it manifests in an even uglier form....

it is a very delicate balance

CC you are compassion


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## tckfui (Jan 3, 2008)

I think everyone should have an abortion, at least once!


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## closet.cult (Jan 3, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> godam!!!! you are one sane mother fluffa....
> 
> in this post.. i feel a breath of fresh air just blew into this thread..
> 
> ...


very delicate. thanks GK.


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 3, 2008)

tckfui said:


> I think everyone should have an abortion, at least once!


Hahaha! AFTER the pic!

Yea nobody who is making a pro-choice speech likes to be interrupted with a picture like that.

100% pro-life


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## Lounge (Jan 3, 2008)

Science and the Supreme Courts cannot agree on when a fetus is legally a "person". So we actually have nothing to talk about.

I've been in a situation where I've had to make hard choices. Each person has to do whats right in their own hearts and by their own standards, since everyone ultimately has to answers to their own conscience. 

Lounge; leaving the thread, enjoy the .02


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## starchland (Jan 3, 2008)

by successful I mean pegging your hot wife in the ass nightly while her DD titties sway back and forth, 8mpg escalade sitting on 22s in the driveway, prescribed to 3 pills we dont know what the fuck for


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 4, 2008)

starchland said:


> by successful I mean pegging your hot wife in the ass nightly while her DD titties sway back and forth, 8mpg escalade sitting on 22s in the driveway, prescribed to 3 pills we dont know what the fuck for



great picture..

ladies and gentleman.. welcome to america...

well, gotta go to my border patrol meeting to shoot any terrorists that might be coming in across the border.. see y'all later!!

iloveyou


----------



## threatlevelorange (Jan 4, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> well, gotta go to my border patrol meeting to shoot any terrorists that might be coming in across the border.. see y'all later!!
> 
> iloveyou


Yea that is pretty funny. Welcome to America. you forgot being overweight being socially acceptable, along with inactivity. 

Although, GK....its almost as if you make a mockery over this country's border security. Has it REALLY been that long since 9/11 that you can crack jokes about such things?


----------



## ViRedd (Jan 4, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> WTF I didn't need to see that.


Its not very pleasant being hit over the head with a 2x4, is it blaze? 

Vi


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 4, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> Its not very pleasant being hit over the head with a 2x4, is it blaze?
> 
> Vi


Crowd turns heads, eagerly awaiting a reply....


OOoooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOoooooo


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## kochab (Jan 4, 2008)

threatlevelorange said:


> Although, GK....its almost as if you make a mockery over this country's border security.
> 
> Has it REALLY been that long since 9/11 that you can crack jokes about such things?


see here is the thing..... our countries border control IS a mockery. when someone can come onto your own soil, and use YOUR plane to kill YOUR people, their either a badass or are up against a punk ass. Im no anti-american by any means or manners but our border patrol arent doing the job that they should be when things like that happen.

If you cant crack jokes about it to keep all our spirits up about it, then you just gave in to the terrorist


----------



## Garden Knowm (Jan 4, 2008)

kochab said:


> If you cant crack jokes about it to keep all our spirits up about it, then you just gave in to the terrorist



plus, there is no such thing as BORDER CONTROL..

there may be "attempted border control" 

but there is no *border control*

there is no war on terror..

there is no war on drugs..

These are just terms that people USE to point a finger at a BIG 'OL abstract messy blob of shit..

honesty would solve the problem. and at the least, take all the stree outta of the situation..


EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED IN 9-11... it had nothing to do with border patrol..

2 planes crashed into 2 buildings and a lot of shit burned and people died, were burned, jumped to their death, etc.. and then the rest of the world REACTED went inside their head and turned it into something THAT it is NOT... and now we as a society are dealing with the STORY that we made up...


There is no one to blame... people who take responsibility for themselves KNOW this..

iloveyou


----------



## Garden Knowm (Jan 4, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> Its not very pleasant being hit over the head with a 2x4, is it blaze?
> 
> Vi



how's it feel to believe that you hit people?

who would you be if you did not BELIEVE you hit people?

when is the last time you smelled the bar of soap that you bathed with.. or listened to the sounds of the toilet flushing.. or stayed still enough to hear your own heart beat... ?

iloveyou


----------



## kochab (Jan 4, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> when is the last time you smelled the bar of soap that you bathed with.. or listened to the sounds of the toilet flushing.. or stayed still enough to hear your own heart beat... ?
> 
> iloveyou


so tell me gk....have you had any instances to bring you close enough to death to realize what the little things in life mean to you? 
I try to appreciate the little things i used to let myself take for granted. I stay happy overall no matter what is going on and I try to co exist peacfully with everyone. i believe that they have just as much right to be here as I.


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## tckfui (Jan 4, 2008)

I still stand by what I said earlier... having an abortion is somthing we should all experience at least once!!!


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## kochab (Jan 4, 2008)

tckfui said:


> I still stand by what I said earlier... having an abortion is somthing we should all experience at least once!!!


so meaning that we should all have 1 abortion, 
or we should have all been *ABORTED* once


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## tckfui (Jan 4, 2008)

hmmm.... BOTH!!!


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## kochab (Jan 4, 2008)

tckfui said:


> hmmm.... BOTH!!!


there was some song by sum 41 with a line in it about..... "my mom told me she should have had an abortion".


----------



## threatlevelorange (Jan 4, 2008)

kochab said:


> If you cant crack jokes about it to keep all our spirits up about it, then you just gave in to the terrorist


That's so cliche I can't believe you said it. That saying died years ago. Perhaps you could make some jokes about where we are headed?


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## ViRedd (Jan 4, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> *how's it feel to believe that you hit people?*


I didn't hit anyone GK. I don't exist ... but the _energy of_ _thought_ does exist. If I posted a picture of a burned-alive infant, burned with saline in it's mother's womb, and someone feels as though he/she got hit with a 2x4 as a result, it's not my fault. If they gain a different perspective on the issue as a result of the image I posted and come to the realization that a human being in the womb is more than just mere protoplasm, or a bloody tissue mass, then the intent of posting it was accomplished. Oh, not to worry though ... I doubt that that infant existed either.

Vi


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## decoboy104 (Jan 4, 2008)

100$ prolife


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## ViRedd (Jan 4, 2008)

decoboy104 said:


> 100$ prolife


Great ...

What amazes me about Internet pot sites are the number of "free spirits" and "Left Wingers" who think they have a monopoly on smoking pot. I've seen it plenty of times, decoboy ... once one clear-thinker takes a stand for what's right in these forums, other clear-thinkers come out of the woodwork to take a stand too. The general consensus on these sites is that if one smokes pot, then one MUST be in bed with Planned Parenthood, Hillary Clinton and the entire cadre of the lock-step socialists who have succeeded in ramming their agenda down the throats of the majority of Americans. Well, not just Americans ... as I don't mean any offense to those who post here from other countries, as they have major problems with these people as well. The Left does NOT have the majority on most issues ... they just have the biggest and loudest mouth.

Vi


----------



## starchland (Jan 5, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> Great ...
> 
> What amazes me about Internet pot sites are the number of "free spirits" and "Left Wingers" who think they have a monopoly on smoking pot. I've seen it plenty of times, decoboy ... once one clear-thinker takes a stand for what's right in these forums, other clear-thinkers come out of the woodwork to take a stand too. The general consensus on these sites is that if one smokes pot, then one MUST be in bed with Planned Parenthood, Hillary Clinton and the entire cadre of the lock-step socialists who have succeeded in ramming their agenda down the throats of the majority of Americans. Well, not just Americans ... as I don't mean any offense to those who post here from other countries, as they have major problems with these people as well. The Left does NOT have the majority on most issues ... they just have the biggest and loudest mouth.
> 
> Vi


so they should speak up then shouldnt they


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## ViRedd (Jan 5, 2008)

starchland said:


> so they should speak up then shouldnt they


Of course they should speak up ... but with logical positions.

Vi


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## AmythePothead (Jan 5, 2008)

i didnt even read all the replies because i knew i would just get more pissed off....but what is up with all this "pro choice"...um yeah you had a choice in the first place, to close your legs or use birth control. Even most idiots know how babes are made. If you dont want a baby, then do what you need to do before you get pregnant, instead of just choosing to kill a baby because you dont feel/want to take care of it. Yes, it doesnt have feeling or memories, but that doesnt mean you should kill it and take away its chance for a life, just because you were irresponsible. And what does it matter if it has memories or not...once your dead your dead and it doesnt really matter much. What pisses me off most about people that scream abortion is their choice , is that they are trying to get out of taking responsibility for their actions in the first place. Grow the fuck up already. There are millions of people out there who cant have kids, and are looking for babies. Give them yours if you dont want it. Taking a life that isnt even yours to take , is not the only answer for your fuck up.


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## justin2937 (Jan 5, 2008)

twostarhotel said:


> there are no anti abortion specific bible verses i can think of


I'm not a religious person, but I believe that falls under the 6th Commandment, "Thou Shalt Not Murder". Regardless if the fetus is capable of life on its own, lack of memory, pain, etc, it is still alive.

Definition of life - Life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still debated, nonetheless, a fetus matches ALL of those criteria.


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## bobharvey (Jan 5, 2008)

oh well, it's legal for now...so there's really nothing prolifers can do about it


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 5, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> they just have the biggest and loudest mouth.
> 
> Vi



are you sure about that... you deserve at least ONE TITLE ....


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## ViRedd (Jan 5, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> are you sure about that... you deserve at least ONE TITLE ....


You know what GK ... you are becoming a Med Lite. Like Med, you are resorting to throwing mud instead of intelligently offering positive input to the discussions at hand. No, I'm not saying that you are a total asshole like Med ... and that's why I said Med-LITE. 

i love you too .. 

Vi



</IMG>


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## closet.cult (Jan 5, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> You know what GK ... you are becoming a Med Lite. Like Med, you are resorting to throwing mud instead of intelligently offering positive input to the discussions at hand. No, I'm not saying that you are a total asshole like Med ... and that's why I said Med-LITE.
> 
> i love you too ..
> 
> Vi</IMG>


agreed.

where did the peaceful, psuedo zen-like comments go. all i get is passive agressive, condescending insults to my opinions, these days.


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 5, 2008)

closet.cult said:


> agreed.
> 
> where did the peaceful, psuedo zen-like comments go. all i get is passive agressive, condescending insults to my opinions, these days.




LOL... I was wondering when that was going to come.. VI.. says that to me about once every 6 months..

something like...
"now that's not very loving"


I have been a bot inconsistent for the past few days...


I really did not mean to hurt anybodies feelings.. and I am not assuming that I did... 

I do enjoy a little banter and try to tangle with those that I think can handle the sparing..

Where I have gone wrong... or where I have really strayed from my GAME... is tangling with newbies.. VI and I go way back... and he knows me.. and I know him...

so we accept one another... recently I have tangled with people who are new to the site and our relationship really is not one that can handle this level of TIT 4 TAT without *opinions being formed*...


please forgive anything that seemed aggressive.. especially the MOM comments.. LOL

iloveyou


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 5, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> You know what GK ... you are becoming a Med Lite. Like Med, you are resorting to throwing mud instead of intelligently offering positive input to the discussions at hand. No, I'm not saying that you are a total asshole like Med ... and that's why I said Med-LITE.
> 
> Vi
> 
> ...


pretty resourceful med... killing 2 birds with one stone... bravo... 


now take it back.. take it all back or the rabbit gets it! 

iloveyou


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 5, 2008)

AmythePothead said:


> i didnt even read all the replies because i knew i would just get more pissed off....but what is up with all this "pro choice"...um yeah you had a choice in the first place, to close your legs or use birth control. Even most idiots know how babes are made. If you dont want a baby, then do what you need to do before you get pregnant, instead of just choosing to kill a baby because you dont feel/want to take care of it. Yes, it doesnt have feeling or memories, but that doesnt mean you should kill it and take away its chance for a life, just because you were irresponsible. And what does it matter if it has memories or not...once your dead your dead and it doesnt really matter much. What pisses me off most about people that scream abortion is their choice , is that they are trying to get out of taking responsibility for their actions in the first place. Grow the fuck up already. There are millions of people out there who cant have kids, and are looking for babies. Give them yours if you dont want it. Taking a life that isnt even yours to take , is not the only answer for your fuck up.



I just want to say that I have been taking this thread very lightly because of the elusive nature of the argument. If I was going to start rolling heads, I would start off with the EXACT words from the above quote.


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 5, 2008)

bobharvey said:


> oh well, it's legal for now...so there's really nothing prolifers can do about it


Uhhh. Not have an abortion? Does that count? That's like saying "well, AIDS exists so there is nothing people who don't want HIV can do about it."

Smooth, Bob. Its as if you just publicly announced that you could give a shit if you were sucked into a vaccum.


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 5, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> You know what GK ... you are becoming a Med Lite. Like Med, you are resorting to throwing mud instead of intelligently offering positive input to the discussions at hand. No, I'm not saying that you are a total asshole like Med ... and that's why I said Med-LITE.
> 
> i love you too ..
> 
> ...


AHhaha! i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you i love you...and in case I missed you...i love you, too.





Seriously, though. If you put that in every post, to EVERY ONE...how much water do all the rest of your words mean?


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 5, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> You know what GK ... you are becoming a Med Lite. Like Med, you are resorting to throwing mud instead of intelligently offering positive input to the discussions at hand. No, I'm not saying that you are a total asshole like Med ... and that's why I said Med-LITE.
> 
> i love you too ..
> 
> ...


In his defense I don't think Med is an asshole. Then again, I'm pretty new on the block.


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## MagusALL (Jan 5, 2008)

i think thats a personal decision each one of us must make. it is not for me to judge others on what they decide to do with their life and the lives of their unborn children, while still a fetus. it isnt the governments decision either. each of us has our own morals and therefore we must all be at peace with ourselves. being too young o in a bad situation, these are all things that test our moralities. some will choose to abort while others will choose to make the best of the situation. all in all i think it is a womans choice since it is her body. but honestly, just take precautions and dont get yourself into a situation where you have to decide someones life. it isnt fair to anyone.


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## MagusALL (Jan 5, 2008)

med is def an asshole.


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## el_maco (Jan 5, 2008)

i support abortion, glad they have just made it legal here
also i think both parents authorization should be required to have a child


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 5, 2008)

MagusALL said:


> i think thats a personal decision each one of us must make. it is not for me to judge others on what they decide to do with their life and the lives of their unborn children, while still a fetus. it isnt the governments decision either. each of us has our own morals and therefore we must all be at peace with ourselves. being too young o in a bad situation, these are all things that test our moralities. some will choose to abort while others will choose to make the best of the situation. all in all i think it is a womans choice since it is her body. but honestly, just take precautions and dont get yourself into a situation where you have to decide someones life. it isnt fair to anyone.


It's a reasonable stance. If I ran, I wouldn't put a ban to it. I would leave it to states. I guess it comes down to whether or not you consider it murder or not. If yes, the rules change.


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 5, 2008)

el_maco said:


> i support abortion, glad they have just made it legal here
> also i think both parents authorization should be required to have a child


Hahahahhahahaha! Both parents had sex, bro.


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## MagusALL (Jan 5, 2008)

i mean, who says the government can change the definition of murder? murder is killing someone that is alive. you must then define life. life is defined as the period between birth and death. some would say it is defined as between conception and death. the cells are living but the baby cannot survive without the host mother to provide its basic life functions. is that truly a living organism? i dont know. but id be devastated if my girl ever got an abortion. my babies will be mighty and great no matter how young and poor i may be. deal with your decisions, no matter what they are. live your life according to your rules, and stand by your morals. thats the only issue here. religion should have no part in this. this is a legal and moral matter. legally, murder is defined as killing someone that is alive. but if you murder a pregnant woman it is a double murder and you will be charged as such. there is no linear legal aspect to this situation. it is a difficult problem. but it aint my problem. my seed is precious. the life i create should never be destroyed.


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## ViRedd (Jan 6, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> pretty resourceful med... killing 2 birds with one stone... bravo...
> 
> 
> now take it back.. take it all back or the rabbit gets it!
> ...


~lol~ ... OK, I take it back! 

All I was trying to do, was to point out to you, that you're treading on Med's territory ... and there is, IMHO, only room for one Med on this site. In fact, there isn't room for him here either until he stops his insane, inane personal attacks. But who am I to say ... I'm not a Mod here. If I were, I'd edit every single personal attack out of Med's posts until he caught on that personal attacks wouldn't be tolerated on this site. If that didn't work, I'd ban him from the site. For life!

Now with the above said ... you didn't "hurt" my feelings in the least, GK. After 41 years in commissioned sales, which is akin to eating rejection on a daily basis for all those years, my skin is seven feet thick. So, your "Med-lite" type of comments just bounce off. I just thought you would like to see that the person you REALLY are was being sabotaged by your negative comments. I mean that in a loving way ... 

Vi


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## bearo420 (Jan 6, 2008)

2. My mother had me at around age 20 i wasn't planned, and wasn't wanted. I thus far at 19 have had a horrible horrible life i had moved in with my grandmother and things were a little better but its not until now that i have full control of my life that things are better and turning around. But even still if i could go back in time and my mom thought about having me aborted i would have agreed as to spare myself the misery i faced. 



to think this all started from someone who was basically saying hed rather be dead.


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Jan 6, 2008)

yo you fuckin cocksucker i told you once dont put words in my mouth stay the fuck out of here


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## MagusALL (Jan 6, 2008)

wtf is going on in here?


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 6, 2008)

MagusALL said:


> wtf is going on in here?


I ........have.......no.........idea.........


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## kochab (Jan 7, 2008)

heywhatsthatsmell said:


> yo you fuckin cocksucker i told you once dont put words in my mouth stay the fuck out of here


somebody deserves to be suspended, for something like that. any user on this forum has just as much right as the next to participate in a topic on this forum. quit being an ass to people please. this is an abortion thread involving mature serious intellect. If you dont posses the self control to show some then please be quiet, you arent aiding to the discussion


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## kochab (Jan 7, 2008)

MagusALL said:


> legally, murder is defined as killing someone that is alive. but if you murder a pregnant woman it is a double murder and you will be charged as such.



ok i just started paying attention to this thread since my wife posted in it and got it subscribed to me anyways....lol
but yeah i just saw this posted above and remembered about that law. so saying in the states that have the same law, then abortion should be charged as manslaughter upon the mother having the abortion. seems fair to charge a criminal with killing an unborn baby then it must only be fair to charge the mother. unless you are the pot calling the kettle black.


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 7, 2008)

kochab said:


> ok i just started paying attention to this thread since my wife posted in it and got it subscribed to me anyways....lol
> but yeah i just saw this posted above and remembered about that law. so saying in the states that have the same law, then abortion should be charged as manslaughter upon the mother having the abortion. seems fair to charge a criminal with killing an unborn baby then it must only be fair to charge the mother. unless you are the pot calling the kettle black.


Very good point. You know, maby it is justified as manslughter. I can see that. The thing is, no one would ever be convicted because while a murderer on the loose killing pregnant women IS going to be reported, the victim (fetus) in an abortion case doesn't have a chance to report the crime. If a woman hides her pregnancy (which is likely in abortion cases), no one would know the difference. Out of sight, out of mind...as they say. Perhaps that's why so many people don't care about abortion, it didn't get them, so whats the harm?


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## kochab (Jan 7, 2008)

threatlevelorange said:


> it didn't get them, so whats the harm?


im rolling on my floor at this moment right now because of this comment.

what about those cases we have all heard about where the babys mother goes and has an abortion although the father wanted the baby......... can that bitch not be charged with manslaughter????? I mean wtf type of place do we live in when your old lady can go kill your child as long as it isnt born yet and get away with it scotch free?
sorry, but id have to killa bitch for some shit like that. old lady or not, mother of the baby or not, if anybody kills my kid, THEY DYIN and i wouldnet care if they were the president
the reason im so strong on this subject is because one of my friends had this happen to him, and he let her get away with it. more specifically the fucking GOVERNMENT let her get way with it......


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Jan 7, 2008)

kochab said:


> somebody deserves to be suspended, for something like that. any user on this forum has just as much right as the next to participate in a topic on this forum. quit being an ass to people please. this is an abortion thread involving mature serious intellect. If you dont posses the self control to show some then please be quiet, you arent aiding to the discussion


of course everyone has a right to participate but not to be a dick and twist what im sayin i told him that awhile ago


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## EarthlyPassions (Jan 7, 2008)

kochab said:


> im rolling on my floor at this moment right now because of this comment.
> 
> what about those cases we have all heard about where the babys mother goes and has an abortion although the father wanted the baby......... can that bitch not be charged with manslaughter????? I mean wtf type of place do we live in when your old lady can go kill your child as long as it isnt born yet and get away with it scotch free?
> sorry, but id have to killa bitch for some shit like that. old lady or not, mother of the baby or not, if anybody kills my kid, THEY DYIN and i wouldnet care if they were the president
> the reason im so strong on this subject is because one of my friends had this happen to him, and he let her get away with it. more specifically the fucking GOVERNMENT let her get way with it......


If those men want to have a baby so badly, let them figure out a way to carry it around for nine months, wreak havoc on their mental-hormonal state, risk the permanent damage or incontinence or death, and suffer through the agony of childbirth. Not to mention, the change in metabolism, the loss of calcium in your bones, post-partum depression (sometimes permanent and or severe.)
Till they do that, they have no right to force a women to have a baby. 

Anyone has the right to kill a person if threatened with permanent injury, disfigurement, or death, it's referred to as self-defense. Pregnancy includes the risk of all of these things. So unless this right is rendered null when a women becomes pregnant, it doesn't matter if the 'unborn child' is a person or not. Women have the right to protect themselves regardless.


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## kochab (Jan 8, 2008)

EarthlyPassions said:


> If those men want to have a baby so badly, let them figure out a way to carry it around for nine months, wreak havoc on their mental-hormonal state, risk the permanent damage or incontinence or death, and suffer through the agony of childbirth. Not to mention, the change in metabolism, the loss of calcium in your bones, post-partum depression (sometimes permanent and or severe.)
> Till they do that, they have no right to force a women to have a baby.
> 
> Anyone has the right to kill a person if threatened with permanent injury, disfigurement, or death, it's referred to as self-defense. Pregnancy includes the risk of all of these things. So unless this right is rendered null when a women becomes pregnant, it doesn't matter if the 'unborn child' is a person or not. Women have the right to protect themselves regardless.


bottom line if that bitch was so worried about getting pregnant then she should have done something to prevent it in the first place, but instead of taking her birthcontrol like he wanted, she stopped to GET pregnant. THEN decided that she wasnt going to raise this baby because that would fuck her teenage partying up, and went and had an abortion without his prior knowing.
now granted he did NOT want a baby, But he didnt need that child he was supposed to be guiding in the world to be killed just because he isnt ready.

and if it wansnt killing then they wouldent give criminals additional charges for killing women carrying an unborn fetus. 

this thread is becoming an argument based on belief not on what IS. and the law states several places where killing an uborn fetus is ILLEGAL, in many states. But they ignore the fact that the mother is doing the same thing because of un-just reasons.
earthly-passions, im not saying that there arent some cases for it, it just shouldnt be because someone isnt willing to take care of it when there are so many people willing to take the child as their OWN children.


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 8, 2008)

kochab said:


> this thread is becoming an argument based on belief not on what IS.



i would love to talk about or at least POINT to what "IS"


but first I must insist that the LAW and what IS are not the same...

What IS includes the LAW

the law is far from including what "IS"

iloveyou

and there are NO bitches on planet EARTH.. it is JUST you.. everybody is you.. start loving them now.. or continue to pound your head against a brick wall.. IT is just you, that you are hurting....

iloveyou

IF you know you are right.. then have compassion and acceptance for those who are not in the KNOW.... you know that killing a baby is wrong.. making a law is not going to stop this problem.. stopping people is not going to stop this problem... being patient and understanding to those who are in this horrible mess and nurturing them is what will bring the truth...

Peoples lack of faith in their fellow man only breeds more discontent and more problems...

iloveyou

does any woman want to kill her baby.... let the truth surface... when you push.. people push back.. when you embrace.. people embrace back..


You will loose youself in the war against abortion and you will become a hateful person.. you will become what you so dislike in others... there is no such thing as the "good fight"..

don't let other people turn you into a hateful person.. be loving NO MATTER what...be loving and kind and accepting because YOU know that is what we all want from each other... 

YOU KINDNESS to all human beings will be your greatest gift to humanity and yourself..

iloveyou


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## bearo420 (Jan 8, 2008)

yo, dude, i quote what you wrote in the first post of this thread. no twisting there, that was a complete quote. i thought it was sad then and do now. But regardless, as much as you didnt want to be born, it was the right thing to do, because killing unborn babies is wrong. and i dont need scientists to tell me that. its obvious were animals like any other, and life is a natural thing that your stopping. STOPPING, Hence ending life. SO its wrong.


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 8, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> i would love to talk about or at least POINT to what "IS"
> 
> 
> but first I must insist that the LAW and what IS are not the same...
> ...



TLO really thinks these statements are more philosopical than political. I'm actually getting a little tired of hearing this whole "we are all one" rhetoric. Just because you have (in any of the threads I have participated in) absolutely no political insight, you feel you still have to post for some reason. Don't take this the wrong way, though. I think you COULD contribute if you wanted to. Just stop being so vague and subjective. At any rate this isn't really an objective topic. Your either pro life, or pro death...and no one will change their mind on this one not in a million years, no matter how many issues people may flip flop on.....this is just not one of those.


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## heywhatsthatsmell (Jan 8, 2008)

bearo you finally put your opinion in good for you i was pissed your saying i want to kill myself wtf thats just how you took it


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## ViRedd (Jan 8, 2008)

Abortion is the pinnacle of human arrogance.

Vi


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## EarthlyPassions (Jan 8, 2008)

kochab said:


> bottom line if that bitch was so worried about getting pregnant then she should have done something to prevent it in the first place, but instead of taking her birthcontrol like he wanted, she stopped to GET pregnant.


Men can also take responsibility, if he didn't want her to get pregnant, then why didn't he ensure it himself by using a condom? That would be the responsible thing to do.


kochab said:


> THEN decided that she wasnt going to raise this baby because that would fuck her teenage partying up, and went and had an abortion without his prior knowing.
> now granted he did NOT want a baby, But he didnt need that child he was supposed to be guiding in the world to be killed just because he isnt ready.


So he left the responsibility of contraceptives completely up to a partying teenager, then becomes upset when she realizes she'd made a mistake of trying to force fatherhood on someone who did not want a child, was not ready for one herself, and terminated the pregnancy. Brilliant, sounds like they're both irresponsible teenagers that would have made poor parents.


kochab said:


> and if it wansnt killing then they wouldent give criminals additional charges for killing women carrying an unborn fetus.


I left room for argument that it could be considered killing. I personally don't feel that way. To me there isn't much difference to removing an embryo or pulling up weeds. Yes, it's alive. Yes, it will be dead now that you've uprooted it. But it felt no pain, cannot think, and is not able to want for it's life. And your garden is so much more pleasant for it.

Of course they will charge someone that killed a pregnant women with more than one death. The women that died, and most likely, her family, wanted to keep the fetus, and develop it into another person, but not only is the mother lost, but so is the new addition to the family. Her loved ones would want the murderer to suffer for both of those losses.


kochab said:


> this thread is becoming an argument based on belief not on what IS. and the law states several places where killing an uborn fetus is ILLEGAL, in many states. But they ignore the fact that the mother is doing the same thing because of un-just reasons.


(See above.)
Whether or not it is un-just is debatable. I say the sheer discomfort and risks of pregnancy and child birth are reason enough to justify an abortion if one is wanted.


kochab said:


> earthly-passions, im not saying that there arent some cases for it, it just shouldnt be because someone isnt willing to take care of it when there are so many people willing to take the child as their OWN children.


Actually, adoption rates have been in a steady decline for years. And many of the parents willing to adopt only want white babies. Even then, many will not except anything other than infants, healthy infants, which are they are assured has no mental defects.
In an age of sperm banks and ovum donations, fertility drugs and test tube babies; why pay money to adopt an infant that is twice as likely to commit suicide, no matter how well you raise it? 

Picture attached is chart on current adoption rates in America.
Please take note: Exits are _not_ children that are adopted, they are children who grow up in the system, never adopted, and leave when they turn 18.
As you can see, that is the most common result of children put up for adoption, they go through life unwanted, grow up, and then leave.


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## tckfui (Jan 8, 2008)

haven't we already agreed that in order to have an opinion, one must have A have had an abortion performed at least once before, and B have been aborted at least once before... because I can swear I remember us all coming to a rational agreement saying that these were the rules, and that people fitting these requirements are the only ones we shale listen to?


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## ccodiane (Jan 8, 2008)

tckfui said:


> haven't we already agreed that in order to have an opinion, one must have A have had an abortion performed at least once before, and B have been aborted at least once before... because I can swear I remember us all coming to a rational agreement saying that these were the rules, and that people fitting these requirements are the only ones we shale listen to?


I guess we can't talk about weed since none of us has been killed and smoked.


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## tckfui (Jan 8, 2008)

THAT IS CORRECT!!! 
I, of course... have been killed on several occasions... but only smoked once :/


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## EarthlyPassions (Jan 8, 2008)

tckfui said:


> THAT IS CORRECT!!!
> I, of course... have been killed on several occasions... but only smoked once :/


Well, that's a shame, sounds like you're not having a very good time with this whole 'living' thing. You might want to try smoking more. It's really very pleasant.


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## kochab (Jan 8, 2008)

ive been smoked several times....enjoyed it every one. my old lady gets crazy on the microphone.....

gk_ignorance is the poison of all mankind, those that CHOOSE to remain ignorant deserve to have every wise person in the world to turn them away. every person here has wisdom to offer if we chose to stand aside and be willing to consider the thoughts that they offer instead of being concerned about projecting our own.

i speak of my friends fiancee that aborted their child without consent so rudely because he didnt feel that he was ready to raise a child, but still wanted the child badly and COULD have given the child a great start in life. It pisses me off because she was so unconcerned about him and also had no concern for the life she was terminating. and was only concerned about herself when she had the abortion instead of letting one of the several people we know would have taken the baby happily. I have no care for those that choose to stay ignorant.

but i started posting in this thread to discuss this topic, not debate it. If i am ignorant i would like to be enlightened to the truth of the matter.

being kind has its small amounts of greatness, but being fucked stands out quick to everyone.
everyone dosent offer the same love that is projected from some. and because so the world is on an never ending unbalance instead of being perfectly flowing together, we will never be able to stop it. not even if you could get the entire world to be silent for 5 minutes. Think about that. How hard would it be to get the entire plant to be SILENT for 5 MINUTES. a tecnically impossible task, and you speak of _*everyone loving everyone*_.......you may wanna project this idea to another species, theyre arent enough humans willing to listen


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## ccodiane (Jan 8, 2008)

This is a subject that should be left to the states, and the citizens of those states. For the courts to have intervened is to allow the federal government to take the choice out of the hands of the people. Federalism is the cornerstone of this great democracy.


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## ViRedd (Jan 9, 2008)

ccodiane said:


> This is a subject that should be left to the states, and the citizens of those states. For the courts to have intervened is to allow the federal government to take the choice out of the hands of the people. Federalism is the cornerstone of this great democracy.


 
^^^ Amen to that. ^^^


From Kochab's last post:

"It pisses me off because she was so unconcerned about him and also had no concern for the life she was terminating. and was only concerned about herself when she had the abortion instead of letting one of the several people we know would have taken the baby happily."

As I said before, abortion is the height of human arrogance. 

Vi
​


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## bearo420 (Jan 9, 2008)

treat it like when you drop a potato chip on the floor. follow the 5 month rule. you can kill it cause its still clean within the 5 seconds or months. right? 



czarchasm


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## ViRedd (Jan 9, 2008)

bearo420 said:


> treat it like when you drop a potato chip on the floor. follow the 5 month rule. *you can kill it* cause its still clean within the 5 seconds or months. right?
> czarchasm


Your terminology, not mine. 

Vi



</IMG>


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## kochab (Jan 9, 2008)

ccodiane said:


> This is a subject that should be left to the states, and the citizens of those states. For the courts to have intervened is to allow the federal government to take the choice out of the hands of the people. Federalism is the cornerstone of this great democracy.


ring a ding, fucking ding. i think someone else just said it better than i ever could have dreamed of.......


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## girlyhits (Jan 10, 2008)

I don't feel abortion should be legal but I also know it's never going to be reversed. I also don't judge women who have made the choice to have an abortion under difficult situations, I simply wouldn't make the same choice and didn't. I was 18 and single when I had my first son so I have some experience. 

I value life and believe that life begins at conception. This is not from a religious standpiont but from a sonigram while I was pregnant at 11 wks. 11 wks. - I could still have a suction abortion at that piont. But what I saw was a complete but tiny baby. Little finger and little toes. The start of human life and it's amazing and beautiful. 

I do believe in choice but that choice is there for both men and women before they make the decision to have sex. We know that sex makes babies so what we really are talking about here is a lack of responsiblity. Before you freak out at me for using the 'responsibility' word in conjuction with sex, keep in mind I had an unplanned pregnancy. But I took responsibility - I had and raised an amazing son. 

Let's talk of chioce more. With abortion the woman is the only party that has the choice. The father doesn't have any say. But boy we love to make them responsible if we choice to keep the baby. So we are the ONLY ones making life altering choices for 3 parties (mother, father and baby). How is it right that both people choose to have sex but after the woman can choose if he's a father or not. 

That's why I don't even receive child support (even from my ex-husband) I made the choice to have kids and I will be responsible for them. I don't expect others to go to that extreme but a little more personal responsiblity in this country when it came to human life would be great. The women who get repeat abortions do make me sick.

I am stone so forgive me if I rambled.


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## tckfui (Jan 10, 2008)

does anybody think bero is kinda weird for having britany spears little sister as his avatar   ??


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## kochab (Jan 10, 2008)

tckfui said:


> does anybody think bero is kinda weird for having britany spears little sister as his avatar   ??


i think that you are kinda weird for knowing who the fuck that was. lol


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## tckfui (Jan 10, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing after writeing that post 
but I'm still a youngin I'm alowed to know stupid shit like that


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 11, 2008)

ViRedd said:


> Your terminology, not mine.
> 
> Vi
> 
> ...


Vi, I don't think you can even take someone seriously in a political conversation when they have an avatar like that. Shouldn't you be posting threads about "does size matter," rather than debating one of the most controversial and subjective social politcal issues since the dawn of mankind?
Seriously, get a job where you don't have time to post here.

BTW- that was directed at the obvious target, no one else.


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## bearo420 (Jan 11, 2008)

kochab said:


> i think that you are kinda weird for knowing who the fuck that was. lol


 
definitely was laughing at this. Only reason I know is cause everytime I check my email theres news articles about that little girl being knocked up. Shes a nickelodeon star, i felt it was perfect ironic current event. I feel bad now that Ive changed my avatar to the olsen twins sharing cum cause britneys sister was funny too. Im outta her age group. Im dating a 20 year old though, so freaking hot too, HAHA. But you know the legal age is 15 in most countries by the way : )


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## bearo420 (Jan 11, 2008)

threatlevelorange said:


> Vi, I don't think you can even take someone seriously in a political conversation when they have an avatar like that. Shouldn't you be posting threads about "does size matter," rather than debating one of the most controversial and subjective social politcal issues since the dawn of mankind?
> Seriously, get a job where you don't have time to post here.
> 
> BTW- that was directed at the obvious target, no one else.


 
dude, save yourself the misery and abort yourself then, my avatars will only get worse. youve got 500 posts. way more than me talking about get a job, ive got 2 and thankfully I dont need to direct anything at targets this is entertainment. 

and by the way my large cock does matter. so you know...also. was that a freudian style revelation though, your small penis makes you hate guys who can talk freely on the subject, lol, i bet its true : ) I can see you shivering in fear of clicking on a link about that subject. Like I wish I could digg out my girl. But oh well, i can spend my nights on a website acting intelligent.


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## ViRedd (Jan 12, 2008)

So, what does that have to do with the topic of discussion here ... which is abortion?

Vi


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## iblazethatkush (Jan 12, 2008)

I like your avatar. That is an effective way of preventing abortions...


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## bearo420 (Jan 12, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I like your avatar. That is an effective way of preventing abortions...


 
now that was good thinking / funny. sarah silverman the comedian said it too, its crazy hearing a girl say it. " i practice safe sex, I just swallow"


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## threatlevelorange (Jan 13, 2008)

bearo420 said:


> and by the way my large cock does matter.But oh well, i can spend my nights on a website acting intelligent.


Hehehhe...back on topic here.


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