# friend hardcore defoliated couple plants... need some input



## ricky6991 (Feb 19, 2013)

Ok so have 12 plants that were hardcore bushy so we decided to do some "trimming". Well i have done a ton of reading on defoliating and its very touchy subject. I began removing what i thought was alittle over the edge of big fan leafs blocking all lower buds from my lollipoped plants... i did fair amount but there was still plenty of green left on branches and the plant. I did strictly what was blocking the inner parts of plant.

Well i turn around and my buddy completely trimmed 2 plants of EVERY fan leaf. Moved the big buds around to get inside and cut fan leafs... there is nothing but sugar leafs on the plant. He swears that online thats how its supposed to do it. Keep in mind this is day 2 of week 4 into flowering an other than lollipoping them after week 1 of flower that was only cutting done on these plants. Yes, you can now see lower buds getting tons of light but i dont see how buds thicken without the frigen leafs. Also, wont plant try to grow new leafs now instead of budding? Im stressing out. Plants look like they are about to be hung to dry. MY PLANTS ARE 6FT. If they die im loosing a lb between the 2.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/625261-my-pineapple-express-6k-watt.html

Thats my post of updates to see what thet look like before today. If you guys wanna enlighten me as to if they will recover with loss of yeild or hermi or if this is how your supposed to do it?

Tmr ill post pictures when lights off.


----------



## rooky1985 (Feb 19, 2013)

Sounds like the two may result in a loss of yield but hopefully they won't die. I have done selective trimming but I can't comment on extreme defoliation as described because I have never tried. Only thing to do now is let them grow out and see what happens, you will have a good test to prove the extreme defoliators either right or wrong.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 19, 2013)

Idk how to feel about it cause so many mixed feelings on it... i dont wanna be the tester in this stupid ass debate. I keep my leaves green and trim half dead ones or severe burned ones. Sometimes huge old fan leafs after the 12/12 stretch... i agreed to do decent amount NOT all of them. But yet on many forums people are constantly saying to do this during flowering. Problem is it was NOT ever done during veg so plants were not "used" to the stress as people would say.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 19, 2013)

I always remove lots of leaves from my plants, i like to keep the thicker growth, any weak thin lower growth i tend to remove
better air flow through the canopy, more colas filling the grow space
i tidy the plants up most of the grow, in the later stages of veg, and through most of the flowering period i will remove leaves
and any other growth that i don't like the look of, although my plants still have leaves left on them, as many fan/ larger healthy leaves as i can keep

i think it is good to experiment and find what suits your own environmental conditions 
i have seen folk recently on a few forums picking all the leaves off their plants
and calling it defoliation, this is a pretty new term to me


defoliating ?
i have never tried to pick all the leaves off at once lol, it is not something that makes sense to me to even try
i doubt the plants will suffer too much, the leaves will grow back, personally i would not remove growth unless
it was necessary to open up the canopy , or unless it looked weak
any leaves that can be saved or tucked under i will tuck them under

all of these grows below, the plants had many leaves removed during late veg and
most of the flowering period 

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/240168-barneys-sweet-tooth-nft-grow.html

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/458333-mr-nice-angel-heart-v.html

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/438137-jamaican-grape-nft-1800w-3-a.html

peace


----------



## Rare D MI (Feb 19, 2013)

This is exactly why I have criticized this shit from the start. It can be useful, but by and large it will ruin a lot of people's crops. I'm not gonna get into another one of these threads, because I always get them locked, but I'm sorry your friend is an idiot, but also glad that this situation is out there so that people can see how harmful information like this can be to have out there. If not done properly, it will crush your yield instead of increase it. I'm sorry you haven't fan leaves as you enter peak flower. That is unfortunate.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 19, 2013)

Exactly... all the threads i have read from 2007 to now through google lol has all been peoples opinions an no facts just people bull shitting back and forth. I blame him not the people on google saying that it should be done because the buds will use the nutes directly instead of having them stored in leaves just to then be moved to buds. Or another one was the leafs are only useful through veg to grow roots and now roots will transfer food strait to bud.

I do things with this kid so obviously his opinion needs to be addressed just like if i had suggestion he would listen but he wants to do it to the rest of plants if the buds get bigger within the next 5 days compared to other plants which i left plenty of green... im scared buds will get bigger than other plants in next 5 days time cause the light hitting them BUT not lasting second half of flower. 

On top of that i had a burning problem which i just hoped to solve about 4 days ago and now with no leaves on it the buds will suffer rather than a leaf taking the hit?


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 19, 2013)

Hopefully all the people who are "pro" defoliating can chime in on some advice of what is to come within next week of time based off experience. Every post online for this topic has 20pages or so. Lets see when its put to the test what happens. Sadly, my 6ft plants which easily i know would yielded me 8oz each are now the test subjects on what happens to plant without fan leafs or "blockers of energy" lol. 

That or people say "well you dont remove them all" or "gotta start in veg to train them"... if you look online defoliating is known for removing ALL fan leaves. Just clear that up now since im an experiment. All plants are clones off same plant and grew exactly same. Hydro off same single rez.

If they survive an buds get much bigger than other plants than screw it im for it but i dont see it happening. When i do a video or pics tmr you guys prob shred tear for me.


----------



## Thundercat (Feb 19, 2013)

I am pro pruning, and do some trimming at various points in the plants life. I have not tried commpletely striping a plant, mostly due to the amount of stress I would think it would cause. The way I see this is if these plants are similar in size you've got a half way decent experiment on your hands. You might find that those 2 plants actually ended up weighing more, and we can all be like WTF I can't believe it. Or they night not, another thing to look at is the total quality of the buds over the whole plant. Try to notice if the ones that were defoliated actually had denser nugs at the bottom then the other plants. 

My take on it is even if the leaves aren't getting light they are storing food for the plant. Lower stems however I do usually remove, I run a single cola SOG and typically lollipop my plants up about 40%. I only remove the branches for the most part though, and I spread it out over a week or so. I'll leave the leaves for the plant to use, and to soak up any spare light that does make it through the canopy. Other then that I only typically take leaves off if they are completely in the way(because my tray is to full) or if they are damaged or dead. Just my 2 cents but thats where I'm at for now.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 19, 2013)

Yea, they all same size. 6 are all tall and spaced out and other 6 on opposite side of room are more bushy and shorter. Weird for being same strain but i divided them up. All pots are same, all nutes are from same rez, growing medium is all same, sealed room with monitored co2 at 1450ppm, same distance from light, humidity is at 42% to 35%, temps pretty steady from 82-86* max.

So yea i guess pictures are in order for tmr and then we see how it goes every 3 days ill put new pics. I WILL NOT be removjng more if they do come back lol. I would rather have meds than be able to do an experiment that people will hate on if results vary from their likings anyways.


----------



## akula (Feb 20, 2013)

It's a good thing that cannabis is such a resilient plant because our community of stoner growers sure tries hard to fuck everything up. Hope your grow survives this, but it sure shows the sad state of our community. Think of this same post over at the hydro tomato community.... 

In other news, maybe your friend could give us some input on his favorite kool-aide to use for flavored weeeed.


----------



## B166ER420 (Feb 20, 2013)

Lol......cannabis plants ARE a lot like humans......if you give me a good haircut,im a happy mofo!.....give me a bad hair cut,take too much off,IM PISSED!!......sorry to hear about your bad haircut


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 20, 2013)

B166ER420 said:


> Lol......cannabis plants ARE a lot like humans......if you give me a good haircut,im a happy mofo!.....give me a bad hair cut,take too much off,IM PISSED!!......sorry to hear about your bad haircut


the only difference between a good haircut and a bad haircut is 2 weeks, Let's hope for this kid's sake it's true for plants too.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

Ok first 3 pics are what he did to the 2 plants... 4th picture is the set of 6 i did. As you can see i left alot of green BUT i was still uncomftable with what i did. The videos are way better to look at. They are uploading now.

Ok now for some speculation since we did the "trimming" when lights just turned on, they sat in light all day yesterday and had almost a full night since i snapped pic/videos... the lower buds have DEFINITELY gotten noticeable difference in both sets of plants. But that is what i figured would happen at first and then think they will not progress like the ones with leaves will.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMtNJ48Rqzg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Above is showing the obvious 2 plants he cut up... some of the 6 in that video he began to do when i said something so they are not as bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTjOL_1kVBY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Above is vid 2. These are the 6 i did.

Oh yes, forgot to say THIS IS A LEGAL MEDICAL ROOM. Videos make me nervous. People like to report shit that doesnt need reporting.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

http://youtu.be/fMtNJ48Rqzg

http://youtu.be/nTjOL_1kVBY


----------



## B166ER420 (Feb 20, 2013)

Man,all you can do now is leave well enough alone....at least you'll be able to see a side by side comparison...imo it will be ok,maybe a little loss on the defoliated ones
LOL...like i said they're like humans,those yellowing leaves are like scabs....they'll come off when they're ready..don't be picking at'em!...lol.peace


chuck estevez said:


> the only difference between a good haircut and a bad haircut is 2 weeks, Let's hope for this kid's sake it's true for plants too.


I haven't seen too many KID'S with a growroom that clean....lol.....but we know what your saying.peace


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2013)

For starts, beautiful room!

Contrary to popular thought, buds don't need light, fan leaves do....... or ANY leaf that has a decent amount of surface area for conducting photosynthesis. This is just common sense.

Your friend needs to get his head out of cannabis forums and into a good book on botany.

Good luck,
UB


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks... yeah its hydro so no real need to be inside room much. Poly everything. Setup the enviroment control and feed schedual and let the plants do the rest. My rez and control bucket are outside room to keep in cold temps and darkness. I have it sealed with co2 burner so they dont even need me talking to them lol!

As for the plants that were cut up, im just nervous if the leafs get nute burn then what? Buds get any food locked out to them? Its not like there is a bunch on there.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2013)

akula said:


> It's a good thing that cannabis is such a resilient plant because our community of stoner growers sure tries hard to fuck everything up. Hope your grow survives this, but it sure shows the sad state of our community.


You can bet that if a grower finally realizes the hard way that some kewl technique is actually bullshit.....they'll be off and running trying desperately to find some "new" way to fuck it all up again. It's mind boggling.

I guess apples just create themselves. Silly why commercial apple growers don't understand what pot growers have known for years - that you'll get more and better quality apples if you just remove 1/2 of the foliage. 

UB


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> As for the plants that were cut up, im just nervous if the leafs get nute burn then what?


Ricky, can we talk some common sense here, cause and effect? You feed plants based on their NEEDS, not some forum paradigm, chart, or schedule. Plants are dynamic living things. Now, since you butchered your faves it stands to REASON that they will require less elements, nutes, to sustain them as opposed to when they are bulking up such as late adulthood or during the stretch. It's a balancing act. You've got the growing drills/hardware together, now just use some common botanical sense. 

Just in case you're not getting it yet, back off the nutes. They don't require much nutrition now cause there is not much photosynthesis going on. Again, you guys focus on buds when you should be focusing on the root system and foliage, retaining as much as possible until harvest. Don't you think that not only your flower production has been compromised, but the very foundation of your plant, it's roots, has too? It's already been said....finish them up and let them be.



> Buds get any food locked out to them? Its not like there is a bunch on there.


The ONLY food buds get is the simple and complex carbos the leaves make via photosynthesis and deliver to them via the phloem. Where are you getting this stuff that buds need plant food, nutritional salts? Your actions and those of your friends obviously aren't driven by what makes a plant tick. Get Mel Frank's book and learn some botany.

UB


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

UB, that was actually my question... IF my leaves that are there now continue to burn then will the bud be able to eat still or since the leaf is burned then the plant cannot eat therefore, bud growth will stop an MAYBE only mature at current size... my nute burn issue is cause the system leaves nute solution behind in the bucket which roots were always sitting in. I have since raised the roots out of the solution but they will grow back into it im sure. Only way for me to avoid this again is less veg time(these 9 week veg, now on 4 week)

You didnt understand the way i said it BUT you did answer it lol... pretty much without fan leafs the bud cannot break down its nutrients and progress. At the point they are at now my only home is to give it a week or so for new or existing leaves to grow which will then allow buds to get nutrients it needs.

Which then brings me to ANOTHER issue... plant will now focus its energy into GROWTH for leaves and not budding like it was used to doing. So that can make it re-veg, or hermi from the hormone change. So this entire thing just had wasted up to 2 CRUCIAL weeks of what should be bud growth and will now be vegitative growth... sound right? Thats my thoughts of whats to come from my understanding.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> UB, that was actually my question... IF my leaves that are there now continue to burn then will the bud be able to eat still or since the leaf is burned then the plant cannot eat therefore, bud growth will stop an MAYBE only mature at current size... my nute burn issue is cause the system leaves nute solution behind in the bucket which roots were always sitting in. I have since raised the roots out of the solution but they will grow back into it im sure. Only way for me to avoid this again is less veg time(these 9 week veg, now on 4 week)


HUH? What little green material left still needs nutrition and water. Don't take the roots out of the water! Question, do you have some level headed friend that is a gardener? I mean has experience gardening, as in tomatoes, landscaping plants, annuals. You need to hand off your room to someone that understands plant culture.



> You didnt understand the way i said it BUT you did answer it lol... pretty much without fan leafs the bud cannot break down its nutrients and progress.


The bud doesn't break down anything unless you mean the healthy and functioning leaves located within the flowering vicinity or the collection of flowers, like the small bud fan leaves and single bud leaves. They're still producing carbos, unless you yanked them off too!



> At the point they are at now my only home is to give it a week or so for new or existing leaves to grow which will then allow buds to get nutrients it needs.


Sorry, but you're not going to get new leaf production, and that goes for new roots too. The plant is now (hormonally) focused, engineered, to finish the flowering process. In fact, what it is really "programmed" to do now is produce seeds. The stress induced by the leaf removal just might trigger an AC/DC reaction. Watch for hermies.

If you want more leaves, then you have to give up the flowering response and revert back to the vegetative stage. There are well defined stages that cannabis goes thru that involve chronological age changes and hormonal responses.

Again, what's done is done. Finish the garden up and chalk it up to yet another popular misguided cannabis myth. 

UB


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

I do thank you for the help on what your saying... but they cannot sit in nute water 24/7. They are in a flood and drain system so not air stone ect. Therefore, they only sit in water 4 times a day for 15min. 

I do know that you know that and must have thought i was doing a bubbler or dwc setup. So try to be nice here lol. I know your knowledgeable for sure so even when you kinda say some rude things ill still listen to your advice cause i know you dont mean harm. Prob sick of same responses always... as for plants not growing new leaves for the buds then wtf, these plants will stay this size and im fucked then.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2013)

What is the function of a leaf?

Primary function of the leaves:

Leaves are the physical "platform" for the process of photosynthesis. The cells in the leaf contain chloroplasts; these contain chlorophyll which converts carbon dioxide and water to simple glucose sugars in the presence of sunlight. This food is used (and stored) by the plant to grow *and reproduce*. As plants are able to produce "food" they are *normally referred to as "producers"*.

Other functions of leaves are:

- To increase the photosynthesising surface area of the plant to maximise the production of food.
- To provide a large surface area for transpiration and gaseous exchange (through the stomata).
- To assist in the collection of water for the plant; some leaves are funnel-shaped in order to actively collect water which is then directed to the roots. Leaves also form a canopy of the tree collecting rainwater from a larger area which is then led (through run-off) to the root zone of the plant.
- The leaves provide shade and shelter to the stem and root system below.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_function_of_the_plant_leaf

Your production has been pretty much shut down.

UB


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> I do thank you for the help on what your saying... but they cannot sit in nute water 24/7. They are in a flood and drain system so not air stone ect. Therefore, they only sit in water 4 times a day for 15min.


Misread you. What I've been advising is to finish them up like you normally would, perhaps watching for hermies and not pushing them with too much nutes which they don't need nor can utilize right now. Be happy with what you've got. It's a nice crop.

Sorry to come off as rude, but I just don't get it when folks burn a lot of money and work on supplies and a grow room before they learn what makes a plant tick. Don't put the cart before the horse. 

UB


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

UB, thanks for the tips and the sarcasm... ive read tons of your post and your extremely smart guy when comes to plants ect. I will still take in info your put out there but geez yes this is my second grow ever. Im sorry to have posted something not worthy of your advanced sections. I posted here because i seen what a big deal defoliating has been and now whether i like it or not i am living through a "test" of how wrong or right this could do be for the plant. So far yes im scared shitless my plants are fucked cause he trimmed so all fan leafs off and seeing how wrong it is rather than right. The good that comes of this is when people research this they will see my thread with video and picture updates until the harvest.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> ..... The good that comes of this is when people research this they will see my thread with video and picture updates until the harvest.


You're still not listening. This kind of nonsense would not happen at all if folks would FIRST learn what makes a plant tick. I even bothered to educate you on the function of a leaf and you're humming about some "test" that may or not help this community? Screw the cannabis community. Most of these guys couldn't find their butts with both hands, reason why they listen and write about a bunch of crap day in and day out.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

Definitely understandable... thats the thing about the internet. Its not all facts and after awhile its easy for people who are getting started to see a hype or see so much talk about something like this and think "there must be some reasoning to it" whereas from everything ive read. There is not at all. Its 100% acts as a negitive... so many threads on this subject and all not finished with side by side comparisons except 1. Its the same one i think everyone uses as an example for every new thread about it...

For anyone tagging along for the ride now, my plants were NOT defoliating throughout veg or at all period. This was week 4 of flower they were defoliated as per another thread a friend read online stating the buds get all the light and leaves were not needed cause they already grew the roots for plants and there job is done in flowering. This thread can be used as for an example of what happens when a plant is defoliated(stripped of all fan leaves) in flowering stage.


----------



## Nizza (Feb 20, 2013)

I agree with ub, the plant will use up the leafs that are no good and when they are 50% dead is the only time I remove em, to avoid bugs. Your plant will naturally let the leafs that aren't helping die and revert the energy somewhere else . Oh yeah idk if u know uncle Ben, but you spelled efficiency wrong in your sig
Edit: efficiacy is the capability to produce an effect. Lol learn something new every day


----------



## lemmis (Feb 20, 2013)

I apologize beforehand if im using any terminology or wording that "parrots" anyone elses posts here. Just using common sense and nothing else, ie all the research we should do to understand our plants functions and needs, how can we know whats better for our plants than nature? In other words, if a plant grows leaves, how can we say this is wrong? A little common sense can go a long way. Dont beat it up if ya love it. This post might not be in exact allignment with this thread but after reading so many on this defoliating topic i had to throw in my 2 cents. Peace


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> You're still not listening. This kind of nonsense would not happen at all if folks would FIRST learn what makes a plant tick. I even bothered to educate you on the function of a leaf and you're humming about some "test" that may or not help this community? Screw the cannabis community. Most of these guys couldn't find their butts with both hands, reason why they listen and write about a bunch of crap day in and day out.


Just saying, its already done the damage and now atleast when people look topic up they will see... not doing it for a test. Hell, if i wanted to do a test for the community i wouldnt have stopped him at 2 of 12 plants. Trust me seeing them makes me cringe and upsets me cause i know the value im loosing. I am listening to you and reading what you saying as someone who is plenty more knowledgeable than myself to learn from.


----------



## ProfessorPotSnob (Feb 20, 2013)

Oh the joys of having multiple hands in the garden , works fine when there is a Chief .. No Chief and your warriors will do as they like ... Sounds like a case of too many warriors and no Chief ..

Next time Bitch Slap anyone who does such , I surely would .. But then again those that visit my garden are guests and they know how to act accordingly !


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 20, 2013)

ProfessorPotSnob said:


> Oh the joys of having multiple hands in the garden , works fine when there is a Chief .. No Chief and your warriors will do as they like ... Sounds like a case of too many warriors and no Chief ..
> 
> Next time Bitch Slap anyone who does such , I surely would .. But then again those that visit my garden are guests and they know how to act accordingly !


kinda one of my rules is to not let ANYONE into my room. I treat it like a lab. I wear different clothes and shoes just to go in there. Friends only invite unwanted things into your garden.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

Well him and i are in this together as you can see good chunk of money in it... we both learning all the time. IMO, i do more readin on dailly basis and although i may not completely know plants in and out functions, i do know stripping the plant nakid is stupid an he read something an believed it not knowing about fan leafs importance because what he read states otherwise.

Not saying i dont care what he did cause i bugged when it happened BUT i cannot act as if i know whats right and wrong and he does not. Live and learn, in this case it costed us about a lb worth in 2 plants(expected anyways, i WISH they swell up an grow but according to facts of nature thats just not likely.


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 20, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> *Well him and i are in this together* as you can see good chunk of money in it... we both learning all the time. IMO, i do more readin on dailly basis and although i may not completely know plants in and out functions, i do know stripping the plant nakid is stupid an he read something an believed it not knowing about fan leafs importance because what he read states otherwise.
> 
> Not saying i dont care what he did cause i bugged when it happened BUT i cannot act as if i know whats right and wrong and he does not. Live and learn, in this case it costed us about a lb worth in 2 plants(expected anyways, i WISH they swell up an grow but according to facts of nature thats just not likely.


 Guess those 2 plants are HIS now.lol


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

I lol-ed at that... it was a thought at one time but im sure my time will come when i do something to cost us.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> IMO, i do more readin on dailly basis and although i may not completely know plants in and out functions, i do know stripping the plant nakid is stupid an he read something an believed it not knowing about fan leafs importance because what he read states otherwise.


Suggests your friend is looking for love in all the wrong places. 

[video=youtube;FAyDmJvjxbg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAyDmJvjxbg[/video]


----------



## Thundercat (Feb 20, 2013)

I'm really eager to see how much difference there is just because! There has been so much talk about how much will be lost, and all your plants are similar in size so you should be able to get a decent average per plant. My guess is that they are each within 1-2 oz of the average but only time will tell.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

If they dont grow anymore than im expecting quite the loss from the 2... my tops alone are 2liter bottle thick when done. Right now they are not close to that. So if i growth is done for the 2 of them right now (not even halfway through flower) then its a HUGE hit.


----------



## keebo3000 (Feb 20, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Just saying, its already done the damage and now atleast when people look topic up they will see... not doing it for a test. Hell, if i wanted to do a test for the community i wouldnt have stopped him at 2 of 12 plants. Trust me seeing them makes me cringe and upsets me cause i know the value im loosing. I am listening to you and reading what you saying as someone who is plenty more knowledgeable than myself to learn from.


I did it. Won't do it again. wasnt worth the energy.... and for all those who told me so. so.


----------



## Thundercat (Feb 20, 2013)

I wanna say first that I'm not in favor of defoliating just in case I was unclear earlier. 

I'm gonna guess they aren't done growing, but by cutting as much off as he did at once it may have stunned the growth for a few days. Obviously it probably also decreased the overall potential of the plants.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

Your see to be done before any buds though an then you let them grow througout flower without touching them?

Ill be putting pictures up every day or every other day. Then at end of post an cutdown time i will be sure to go back and put one picture per day in order to see difference.


----------



## keebo3000 (Feb 20, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Your see to be done before any buds though an then you let them grow througout flower without touching them?
> 
> Ill be putting pictures up every day or every other day. Then at end of post an cutdown time i will be sure to go back and put one picture per day in order to see difference.


i defoliated all thru veg... then on day 21 of flower and let them grow after that.....


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 20, 2013)

And your yeilds were always bigger before defoliating and after you stopped doing so?


----------



## keebo3000 (Feb 20, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> And your yeilds were always bigger before defoliating and after you stopped doing so?


 no actually the yield was larger by a half an O .. not enough to justify the work. imo


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 20, 2013)

keebo3000 said:


> no actually the yield was larger by a half an O .. not enough to justify the work. imo


[video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/6Zy297Xgr8Q[/video]


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 21, 2013)

@ricky6991 --First let me say you got one clean & professional looking room 

..read most of the thread, and i'm assuming you are around week5 of flower? And you stated you see some nute burn on the remaining small leaves? Well like UB advised, just lower the nutrient ppms  Since the large fan leaves were removed (the plant's processing sites / factories), your roots are just sucking up "nutes" sending it upwards towards any remaining leaf site on the plant (so those remaining leaf(s) are over burdened with concentrated levels) --hence the nute burns.. 

About the defoliation thing your friend applied on those plants, it's never been proven to be a working method, the science behind its application doesn't make sense since you need leaves to process the "energy" needed for the plant to flourish.. 

The growers who insist that it works may have something that probably wasn't thoroughly examined; like maybe it was the strain(phenotype) used during those grows, which actually thrives under those conditions? Some environmental unknowns that led to certain outcomes? Too many blanks, too many what ifs.. Until someone can actually put some real science behind "defoliation" for cannabis, then for now its just another pseudo method which actually does more harm than good~

This is the advanced cultivation section, ---plucking fan leaves, saying "shits gonna yield more" because buds (floral bouquets) are exposed to the light ---just don't make botanical sense  

So ricky6991, just finish out your current run, from the the pictures you posted, they look like they will yield okay (probably better) if you had just left them alone... Honestly, nature knows best, so why mess with that system that took millions of years to evolve 

.2s


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 21, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> @ricky6991 --First let me say you got one clean & professional looking room
> 
> ..read most of the thread, and i'm assuming you are around week5 of flower? And you stated you see some nute burn on the remaining small leaves? Well like UB advised, just *lower the nutrient ppms*  Since the large fan leaves were removed (the plant's processing sites / factories), your roots are just sucking up "nutes" sending it upwards towards any remaining leaf site on the plant (so those remaining leaf(s) are over burdened with concentrated levels) --hence the nute burns..
> 
> ...


What he said, emphasis mine. How quickly folks jump to some conclusion when in fact the results was induced by some other factor (s).

UB


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 21, 2013)

Monday is start of week 5. As for lowering nute ppm, i cant do that cause my other plants eat crazy amount and im not sacrificing the other 10. If that means these 2 stay where they are then it is what it is...

My buddy who did the 'defoliating' i talked to an told him i wasnt comftable doing it anymore and as to why and he completely understood an actually said he would take the loss himself for those 2. Not that i would have him do that cause one day ill mess up im sure. Accidents happen. Think he read up on it some more after that day an now knows... ill have a pic up today


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

The correct canopy management will benefit the overall crop, when plants are grown tightly in a given space
i would consider canopy management to be removal , or bending, of any growth including leaves 
a crop consists of the number of plants grown, or another way to look at is, the total amount of branches produced by all plants in the crop in the grow space
each branch will compete for light and has the potential to become a cola 
nature does not know best, cultivation is the art of helping plants to know what is best 
indoor plants grown under a central light do not grow in the shape nature intended, they can grow top heavy and shade themselves , this is not desirable
training/ canopy management can help to organize the plants into the best shape to produce the maximum amount of cola

it is just as extreme to pick all the leaves off your plant as it is to think that picking off any leaves at all will always harm the crop
finding the correct balance for your grow is something that you will find with time and experience the plants will show you what they like and what
they do not like
it is unfortunate that some growers have a bad experience with their plants and are too frighted to get back on the horse so to speak and experiment more

there would be nothing worse for this industry collectively than all growers growing their plants using the exact same methods 
this would cause a stagnation of ideas and new discoveries with completely average uncle ben style plants for everyone
it is far better to experiment make some mistakes along the way and learn from those mistakes 

better luck next time 

peace


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 21, 2013)

@skunkdoc--- I acknowledge what you said, true.. there is a distinguishable line between (unplanned extreme defoliation & systematic canopy management) , I'm just here to point out that; at least, know what you are doing before hand.. so you get the desired results you wanted~ 

--I won't argue the sentiment I mentioned about "Nature knowing best" --each person is entitled their own opinion 
But I think cultivation is more in line of procuring results from applying the correct sciences, to achieve results that supersede current norms~
"Helping plants know what is best"... is like stating that nature's design wasn't adequate enough after so many years of evolution.. hhmm, just seems like human ego right there.. 

I was thinking that your statements were based purely on cannabis progression, but then you go flaming UB... Oh well~


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> @skunkdoc--- I acknowledge what you said, true.. there is a distinguishable line between (unplanned extreme defoliation & systematic canopy management) , I'm just here to point out that; at least, know what you are doing before hand.. so you get the desired results you wanted~
> 
> --I won't argue the sentiment I mentioned about "Nature knowing best" --each person is entitled their own opinion
> But I think cultivation is more in line of procuring results from applying the correct sciences, to achieve results that supersede current norms~
> ...


If it is your belief that all cannabis plants grow perfectly without any kind of intervention from the grower, then perhaps you should live in Jamaica and just throw seeds in the ground
don't worry about any kind of fertilizer any kind of training, or any phenotype selection pray to jah Rastafari to grow them for you .. good luck

It is my opinion that the pictures of the plants uncle Ben has posted are average. This is not flaming, it is me stating my opinion 
uncle Ben is obsessed with this topic a simple search will testify to that fact, rather than offering constructive criticism, uncle Ben uses insults and copies nonsense from grow books and re-posts it, something similar to what Brick Top would do 

You are free to agree or disagree with my opinions but labeling my comments as flaming would indicate to me that you are defending your friend uncle Ben, this is an admirable action but unnecessary since he was not under attack he knows very well how obsessed he is with this topic, and i am sure he can speak for himself

It is a pity, i would hope that your loyalties to your friend can be put aside so that you have an open mind to the opinions of everyone and not just a select few 
nothing worse than a close minded cheerleader < That is just me thinking out-loud, i would not want to be accused of flaming anyone, especially elite members of the RIU grow hierarchy LOL

happy seed chucking 

peace


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 21, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> there would be nothing worse for this industry collectively than all growers growing their plants using the exact same methods


That's absurd. It's not about methods pinhead, it's about science. How you deliver salts and water is immaterial as long as it gets done and done right - aquaponics, DWC, soil-less, organics, ebb-flo....doesn't really matter. You tell a group of my professional growers that you pluck leaves claiming it makes them yield more and you'll get laughed out of the room.



> this would cause a stagnation of ideas and new discoveries


"NEW" discoveries? Oh bullshit. Don't play that juvenile elitism game with me. With every new crop of noobs comes the same old, re-hashed, Joe Cool drills thinking they've re-discovered the wheel when in reality I and other seasoned growers end up unfucking the mess you make because of your "new discoveries".



> with completely average uncle ben style plants for everyone


That's an insult and nothing more than a cheap politically skewed shot on your part and one of the reasons why I'm giving you a good spanking. Folks know a well grown plant when they see one. Let's see yours.



> it is far better to experiment make some mistakes along the way and learn from those mistakes


Yep, and like I've said a million times, guys like you have to learn the hard way.

So, go pluck yourself......


----------



## Bud Brewer (Feb 21, 2013)

Another nonsense thread these are not fruit tree's or even fruit these are flowers every pod is like a flower leaf that does get energy from the light directly even thru the thc trichs they act as a magnifying glass a lot goes on in the bud.

There are lots of high demand strains that have very little leaf yet grow big fat bud naturaly with no leaf.

Bud doesn't develop well or at all in low light situations I have posted many pics showing that. 

I have big three foot bushes left after harvesting at least two pounds from two plants it's still drying.

I'm going to reflower with many two week old looking tops I cut the couple of oz's of good popcorn after a few days of light to finish the bud, now I should go thru another cycle with no veg time and still get a huge harvest.

Rick your plants will be fine you should get more out of the two and not lose anything, stripping everything off a big plant at once will shock them it should be done over a couple of days still better than topping my clones are way behind the defoliated and natural ones.

You have noticed lower bud Is more developed that will continue they will grow more leaves anyway they just got some shock from doing to much at once.

I think you will be pleasently surprised in the end no need to worry.

I defoliated many times in veg heavily did a half defoliation at 21 days and again a couple of weeks before chop.

I'd post pics but they are a pain from my phone they are in outdoor came indoor in my sig.


----------



## dopeboi69 (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm with skunkd0c on this one. if we all followed uncleben's methods we would all have very average plants. experiment for yourself. I have, and I like the results I get which are achieved with methods contrary to uncleben's. simple as that


----------



## akula (Feb 21, 2013)

dopeboi69 said:


> I'm with skunkd0c on this one. if we all followed uncleben's methods we would all have very average plants. experiment for yourself. I have, and I like the results I get which are achieved with methods contrary to uncleben's. simple as that


I know right. Who cares about years botany when we got stoners with science exploration level: toddler? I mean botany standards are really holding us back. 

Would we have Rollitup members advancing techniques like using Oxyclean to enhance their cannabis if they had looked into the science and botany behind it? *
HELL NO! *

Would we have Rollitup memebers advancing techniques like using Centrum Silver Vitamins if they had bothered with science or botany? 
*HELL NO!*

How about mixing Zoloft in their own piss??? I know you know the answer, would we have these awesome discoveries if they had bothered with the science??? *
HELL NO!!*

So come on, who need science?? Not us, we gotz results and a brain. 

So I am going to try and sprinkle some mercury on my leaves and show some results!!! Fuck science, that's fer nerds! Whos with me????


----------



## PJ Diaz (Feb 21, 2013)

I agree that UB is definitely obsessed with defoliation. I just don't understand why. I'm not obsessed with "his" four cola topping method.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> That's absurd. It's not about methods pinhead, it's about science. How you deliver salts and water is immaterial as long as it gets done and done right - aquaponics, DWC, soil-less, organics, ebb-flo....doesn't really matter. You tell a group of my professional growers that you pluck leaves claiming it makes them yield more and you'll get laughed out of the room.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



as i have said before your plants are average at best, please do not try to give me advice
it is embarrassing that you persist with your pretend copy and paste knowledge
when you have something to show that is a bit more impressive get back @ me

top tip > you should just post links to where you get your opinions from then i can see them first hand from whatever book or website you quote from 
would save you some time

peace


----------



## zVice (Feb 21, 2013)

yeah leaves fucking rawk
leaves them alone right


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

akula said:


> I know right. Who cares about years botany when we got stoners with science exploration level: toddler? I mean botany standards are really holding us back.
> 
> Would we have Rollitup members advancing techniques like using Oxyclean to enhance their cannabis if they had looked into the science and botany behind it? *
> HELL NO! *
> ...



i hope all the growers hiding behind internet science degrees , are growing using LEDS in Aeroponics 
some pics would be nice 
it just would seem hypocritical if you were using HID'S and soil and claiming to be an elite scientist just my opinion

unless its a scientist that got hit on the head in the 1970's and never recovered ? 

peace


----------



## akula (Feb 21, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> i hope all the growers hiding behind internet science degrees , are growing using LEDS in Aeroponics
> some pics would be nice
> it just would seem hypocritical if you were using HID'S and soil and claiming to be an elite scientist just my opinion
> 
> ...


Don't have the slightest goddamn clue what the hell your talking about science degrees, aeroponics, HIDs and LEDs..... But I think you are agreeing with me in my mantra of "FUCK SCIENCE"! Am I right man? 

Leave matching the science of botany into our experiments for the nerds. Am I right. That frees us up and the universe becomes our oyster. I dont see those science/botany nerds flavoring their weed with wild berry kool-aide am I right? Screw them idiots. 

As for pics, I am still trying to find enough old fashion thermometers to collect enough mercury to spray on my crop. Thos little fuckers are sure hard to find now. Maybe the Goodwill has some old ones laying around.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

akula said:


> Don't have the slightest goddamn clue what the hell your talking about science degrees, aeroponics, HIDs and LEDs..... But I think you are agreeing with me in my mantra of "FUCK SCIENCE"! Am I right man?
> 
> Leave matching the science of botany into our experiments for the nerds. Am I right. That frees us up and the universe becomes our oyster. I dont see those science/botany nerds flavoring their weed with wild berry kool-aide am I right? Screw them idiots.
> 
> As for pics, I am still trying to find enough old fashion thermometers to collect enough mercury to spray on my crop. Thos little fuckers are sure hard to find now. Maybe the Goodwill has some old ones laying around.



no mate i am saying, fuck the little bullshitters that talk big and post pictures of average plants, its quite boring 
good luck finding your pictures and good luck with your science degree


----------



## PJ Diaz (Feb 21, 2013)

The world used to be flat. Now it's round. Fact.


----------



## akula (Feb 21, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> The world used to be flat. Now it's round. Fact.


Flat Earth was not a scientific theory but a mythical religious one. In some ancient cultures people did believe their world was flat, but they based it on nothing but on their myths and perception. Even when science in those cultures proved that it was not flat, many of the uneducated refused to believe in anything but a flat Earth because it fit into their religious paradigms. It was their only reality even with it being contrary to indisputable evidence to show otherwise. So this is not really a very good argument against using science instead of individual perceived perceptions.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

akula said:


> Flat Earth was not a scientific theory but a mythical religious one. In some ancient cultures people did believe their world was flat, but they based it on nothing but on their myths and perception. Even when science in those cultures proved that it was not flat, many of the uneducated refused to believe in anything but a flat Earth because it fit into their religious paradigms. It was their only reality even with it being contrary to indisputable evidence to show otherwise. So this is not really a very good argument against using science instead of individual perceived perceptions.


you seem to be having an argument with yourself 
or at least attempting to put words in the mouth's of others
what scientific degrees do you hold currently , and what scientific degrees are you studding for ?


----------



## akula (Feb 21, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> you seem to be having an argument with yourself
> or at least attempting to put words in the mouth's of others
> what scientific degrees do you hold currently , and what scientific degrees are you studding for ?


You talk real funny. How in the world could I argue with myself while putting words into someone elses mouth?? Lol that funny. 

But I am starting to think you might be a sock puppet. You dont sound anti-science to me at all. I will not tell you of any science degree I may or may not have you tricky-tricky little sock puppet science nerd. I will not tell you, you are trying to trick me.


----------



## NnthStTrls (Feb 21, 2013)

You've got nothing to worry about. Nice looking grow. Good job. Peace.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

akula said:


> You talk real funny. How in the world could I argue with myself while putting words into someone elses mouth?? Lol that funny.
> 
> But I am starting to think you might be a sock puppet. You dont sound anti-science to me at all. I will not tell you of any science degree I may or may not have you tricky-tricky little sock puppet science nerd. I will not tell you, you are trying to trick me.


you are telling me you are laughing at my comments, but at the same time you are attempting to insult me
i am a stranger on the internet, did i upset you ?
i stated that you are attempting to be smart, you have succeeded in nothing more than a poor attempt at sarcasm and a few child like insults 

either you are someone who is genuine and holds a degree in botany or another related science or you are studding for such a qualification 
you should be proud of such an achievement

however if you are not qualified in these areas and you are re-posting information you found with google while pretending to be a follower of science this seems stupid and disingenuous to me
i would rather see and hear from genuine folk that are not pretending to be scientists 

zomg i can insult strangers on the interwebz lolz


----------



## akula (Feb 21, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> you are telling me you are laughing at my comments, but at the same time you are attempting to insult me
> i am a stranger on the internet, did i upset you ?
> i stated that you are attempting to be smart, you have succeeded in nothing more than a poor attempt at sarcasm and a few child like insults
> 
> ...


OHHHH....

So you are not really anti-science, you just dont believe that people that have no degree in botany cannot properly discuss scientific issues in botany because reading scientific data is only digestible while at a scientific university? That doesn't sound very anti-science to me. Hmm I think you have been a fraud here when you claimed you were anti-science. But whatever. 

*OK so skunkd0c* has proposed a new Rollitup rule. If you dont have a degree an a specific topic, you are unable to address it....even if you are well versed and correct. 

So now I am going to check everyone's cannabis growing degree from now on or skunkd0c shall revoke your privilege to speak about growing cannabis. I have thought about enrolling in Portlandsterdam University so I am good-to-go. 

As for all you science nerds....get your paper work and show us your botany degree or you cannot speak.....even if you are right. 

Oh yeah skunkd0, that post about the flat Earth I posted....I dont have a degree in mythology or history, but have taken some astronomy classes once...should I delete my post since I do not posses a degree? How about PJ? I am guessing he doesn't either. 

skunkd0...give us your rules and rullings please.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

akula said:


> OHHHH....
> 
> So you are not really anti-science, you just dont believe that people that have no degree in botany cannot properly discuss scientific issues in botany because reading scientific data is only digestible while at a scientific university? That doesn't sound very anti-science to me. Hmm I think you have been a fraud here when you claimed you were anti-science. But whatever.
> 
> ...


for someone that is laughing you really seem upset


----------



## akula (Feb 21, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> for someone that is laughing you really seem upset


Upset? About what? I am going with your proposal to only allow people with the proper documented qualifications to participate in discussions. I mean this is your idea man. Are you now balking? First you turn out not to be anti-science even though you led me to believe you were. And now you chastise me for jumping on your bandwagon. WTF man? Yeah maybe I should be upset....you are nothing but a big old meanie and are not a truthful person. 

Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice and you are no longer my friend. 

YEAH!

Screw skunkd0c idea of having proper documented qualifications! He is a tyrant, a meanie and a liar....plus I think he is a sock puppet posing as a science hater. Dont trust this man. He might be FBI!!!!


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

You are upset about something, your posts are very child-like silly insults
you like to let your imagination run away with itself in an effot to create some drama for yourself 

i only asked you what your qualifications were, from this you have invented a fabricated story


why not just simply say you are not qualified, why all the drama ?
do you suffer from ADHD ?

ok you are not a scientist, that is great, i am not a scientist either 
now what ?
more insults, or perhaps you found the pictures of your plants ?


----------



## akula (Feb 21, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> You are upset about something, your posts are very child-like silly insults
> you like to let your imagination run away with itself in an effot to create some drama for yourself
> 
> i only asked you what your qualifications were, from this you have invented a fabricated storyo
> ...


No degree...guess that means we should forget your plan for new rules.

You sure do seem smart as all get out. But I still think you FBI.


Ok no more wacking the kitten, back to the discussion at hand.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

akula said:


> No degree...guess that means we should forget your plan for new rules.
> 
> You sure do seem smart as all get out. But I still think you FBI.
> 
> ...



i wish you would just talk normal, all the silliness , you do not need to hide behind anything, just be yourself  
now what about your plants, i would love to see them


----------



## akula (Feb 21, 2013)

Pe


skunkd0c said:


> i wish you would just talk normal, all the silliness , you do not need to hide behind anything, just be yourself
> now what about your plants, i would love to see them


You want me to post pics of something I have grown? You would like to see that you say? Funny thing is since I am a legal medical grower I'm not exactly allowed to post public pics of my grow room. Not that I think they really monitor that type of thing, but would be my motivation exactly? A dick size contest? Is that what you want? To compare dicks? You would like me to possibly jeopardize my legal grow status along with my patients medicine to have a dick size contest with you? Let me think about that one.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 21, 2013)

akula said:


> Pe
> 
> You want me to post pics of something I have grown? You would like to see that you say? Funny thing is since I am a legal medical grower I'm not exactly allowed to post public pics of my grow room. Not that I think they really monitor that type of thing, but would be my motivation exactly? A dick size contest? Is that what you want? To compare dicks? You would like me to possibly jeopardize my legal grow status along with my patients medicine to have a dick size contest with you? Let me think about that one.


what you need to do first is calm down
you seem to misinterpret everything, injecting your own negative thoughts , i see this as firstly a trolling mechanism to create a little drama 
but now i really do think you are paranoid and it is not just nihilistic sarcasm

it would be nice to see how you have implemented the scientific data that you speak off to the benefit of your plants
if posting pictures is a security risk to you that is a shame
perhaps if you learn more about how computers work, you can learn to attain a reasonable amount of anonymity on the internet 
i find sharing pictures with other growers enjoyable, i can learn from others and i hope they can learn from me 
it is a shame you are hostile to this sharing process 

i am quite happy to post pictures of the plants i have grown, and am happy to take on-board constructive criticism
i guess my love of the plant exceeds my fear of the uk government i do not share their opinion on the status of this plant

peace


----------



## PJ Diaz (Feb 21, 2013)

akula said:


> Pe
> 
> You want me to post pics of something I have grown? You would like to see that you say? Funny thing is since I am a legal medical grower I'm not exactly allowed to post public pics of my grow room. Not that I think they really monitor that type of thing, but would be my motivation exactly? A dick size contest? Is that what you want? To compare dicks? You would like me to possibly jeopardize my legal grow status along with my patients medicine to have a dick size contest with you? Let me think about that one.


Since when is it against the medical laws to post pics of your grow online? That's a new one on me, if it's true..


----------



## Thundercat (Feb 21, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Since when is it against the medical laws to post pics of your grow online? That's a new one on me, if it's true..


Thats what I was thinking. I'm not medical and don't know the laws, but unless tons of people on this website are all ignoring that, it seems like lots of medical growers post here.


----------



## Beachside (Feb 21, 2013)

Arrogance is quite common in science. A well read and intellegent person has all the right to not only defend the truth but also to chastise those charletens who spread disinformation, ESPESIALLY those who deny scientific procedure! I love how having a degree makes someone an elitist in your eyes.... How very sad your life must be. It has never in history been so easy to educate yourself. If you don't have a degree or are not working toward one it is because you are either too lazy to make the effort, too dim witted to understand the value of knowledge, or so arrogant you think you know enough. 

At any rate there is a name for the particular affliction these fools carry through there meager existence. The Dunning Kruger Effect. Dunning and Kruger had gone and proven that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy

This research has been recently revisited and consequentially reaffirmed by a few universitys and it was shown that the affliction is much more common when pretaining to sciences. A very blatant example is the discontinuity between scientists and the population at large concerning climate change. 

Something to consider.... If partaking in an illogical course of action seams to provide a positive response, one should first reevaluate the peramiters of their scenario.


Im sorry but I had to add this.... It is fairly telling when one of the pro-defoliation sheep say that a bud is made up of leaves! A little botany would have taught you that a flower is made up of petals, sepals, and either stamens, pistils or both. Flowers with both stamens and pistils are called perfect (or hermaphrodite for you pot heads). Cannabis is unlike a majority of plants in that it has imperfect flowers. Not only that but cannabis flowers are lacking a set of petals. They only contain sepals and sex organs. A collection sepals is known as a calyx. Petals and sepals do not photosynthasize. They attract pollinators. if defoliation helps you grow better plants you have a lot of learning to do starting with grow room design!


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 21, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> If it is your belief that all cannabis plants grow perfectly without any kind of intervention from the grower, then perhaps you should live in Jamaica and just throw seeds in the ground
> don't worry about any kind of fertilizer any kind of training, or any phenotype selection pray to jah Rastafari to grow them for you .. good luck
> 
> It is my opinion that the pictures of the plants uncle Ben has posted are average. This is not flaming, it is me stating my opinion
> ...


--I have no loyalties but to this plant  sorry for insinuating that you were "flaming" , lol and i'm no ones cheerleader~ but i'am game for watching cheerleaders prance around in Jamaica chucking seeds  I' am always open-minded since you should always view everything "out side the box", and no, I don't pray to Jah to grow my plants, that's for lazy people 

#cheers

since you mentioned cheerleaders..
[video=youtube;FIfbghHdG1s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIfbghHdG1s[/video]


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> i am quite happy to post pictures of the plants i have grown, and am happy to take on-board constructive criticism


Where are your plants? Like I said last night (which got canned) I think you're another RIU troll....a 15 year old poser.

Put up or shut up,
UB


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

Beachside said:


> At any rate there is a name for the particular affliction these fools carry through there meager existence. The Dunning Kruger Effect. Dunning and Kruger had gone and proven that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:
> 
> tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
> fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
> fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy


You nailed the psychology I've observed for years in cannabis forum groups, witness some of the characters posting in this thread. Nicely done. akula explained the prevalent Troll-It-Up "confirmation bias" in one of the other defoliation threads. Seems like we've been beating this dead horse for a lonnnnnnnnnggggggg time. There are those that understand what makes a plant tick, and there are those that don't. That's just the way it is. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/533009-psychology-wrong-answers-aka-asch.html



> Cannabis is unlike a majority of plants in that it has imperfect flowers. Not only that but cannabis flowers are lacking a set of petals. They only contain sepals and sex organs. A collection sepals is known as a calyx. *Petals and sepals do not photosynthesize.* They attract pollinators. if defoliation helps you grow better plants you have a lot of learning to do starting with grow room design!


Someone gets it.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

Bud Brewer said:


> Another nonsense thread these are not fruit tree's or even fruit these are flowers every pod is like a flower leaf that does get energy from the light directly even thru the thc trichs they act as a magnifying glass a lot goes on in the bud.


They're both fruiting bodies. An apple produces seeds. Cannabis produces seeds. The carbos, food, that produces flowers and fruit is manufactured by the leaves. 

Take a botany class. You're really coming off as some ignorant fool.

UB


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 22, 2013)

Originally Posted by Bud Brewer 
Another nonsense thread these are not fruit tree's or even fruit these are flowers every pod is like a flower leaf that does get energy from the light directly even thru the thc trichs they act as a magnifying glass a lot goes on in the bud.

Whats in red made me damn near piss my pants I was laughing so hard...


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> no mate i am saying, fuck the little bullshitters that talk big and post pictures of average plants, its quite boring


The "little bullshitters", eh? 'Pot calling kettle black' comes to mind.

Who in the hell are you? Where are your plants, big shot?

UB


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> Originally Posted by Bud Brewer
> Another nonsense thread these are not fruit tree's or even fruit these are flowers every pod is like a flower leaf that does get energy from the light directly even thru the thc trichs they act as a magnifying glass a lot goes on in the bud.
> 
> Whats in red made me damn near piss my pants I was laughing so hard...


No shit. You read some of the stuff in these groups and you can only shake your head and gaffaw! Where in the hell do these goofballs get this stuff? Are they posting so stoned that all common sense and judgement is poof, gone?

UB


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 22, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> kinda one of my rules is to not let ANYONE into my room. I treat it like a lab. I wear different clothes and shoes just to go in there. Friends only invite unwanted things into your garden.


Damn straight Chucky.....


----------



## Bud Brewer (Feb 22, 2013)

Uncle Bmeat this is not fruit learn something from this century you don't know shit can't grow shit giving retarded advice you got from the stone age.

Do you want to see my plants again your favorites bigger than anything you have ever done outdoor or in even with a whole summer and endless sun a roots you can't compare that's sad for you stuck in the past.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

Bud Brewer said:


> Uncle Bmeat this is not fruit learn something from this century you don't know shit can't grow shit giving retarded advice you got from the stone age.
> 
> Do you want to see my plants again your favorites bigger than anything you have ever done outdoor or in even with a whole summer and endless sun a roots you can't compare that's sad for you stuck in the past.


What was that!? hah!


----------



## Bud Brewer (Feb 22, 2013)

The Truth Bmeat.


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 22, 2013)

A one hit wonder for a one hit blunder. This one is for you Bud Brewer....


[video=youtube;WFrmapGCuhs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFrmapGCuhs[/video]




There is a difference between repeatable results and shit house luck..........


----------



## B166ER420 (Feb 22, 2013)

IGNORE THE RETARDS!!!!!!!!.........if your saying "shit, he better not be talking about me" ....then it IS YOU......the damage is done!....this thread needs to be closed.peace


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 22, 2013)

Bud Brewer said:


> Uncle Bmeat this is not fruit learn something from this century you don't know shit can't grow shit giving retarded advice you got from the stone age.
> 
> Do you want to see my plants again your favorites bigger than anything you have ever done outdoor or in even with a whole summer and endless sun a roots you can't compare that's sad for you stuck in the past.


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 22, 2013)

Most would be surprised at what fun new things us old crusty fucks can come up with....



[video=youtube;BDiXPx2OqPI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDiXPx2OqPI[/video]



And yes I know this is troll bait, so my apologies in advance.......lol


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm not sure how defoliation is labeled "advanced" cultivation..., I just spent the last 6 hours looking for any substantial (clinical/peer reviewed) write-ups on cannabis & defoliation (most noteworthy-- were studies based on "pruning") online.. 

Anyone got any links? or books to recommend??

@alex.. love that song!


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 22, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> @alex.. love that song!


 someone who admits to liking Toni basil,lol


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> Most would be surprised at what fun new things us old crusty fucks can come up with....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is funny! Those guys are some really good musicians! Me? I'd like to try a little of this speed!

[video]http://player.vimeo.com/video/56534375[/video]


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 22, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> someone who admits to liking Toni basil,lol


/facepalm... lets just keep this between us... haha


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 22, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> That is funny! Those guys are some really good musicians! Me? I'd like to try a little of this speed!
> 
> [video]http://player.vimeo.com/video/56534375[/video]


Each and every one of them are Grammy award winning musicians. Most all of us have probably heard them in one of our favorite songs. Many would be surprised who is under some of those wraps!


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 22, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> T
> 
> [video]http://player.vimeo.com/video/56534375[/video]


 That is so badass,like superman. The music sounds like a depeche mode remix.


----------



## keebo3000 (Feb 22, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> I'm not sure how defoliation is labeled "advanced" cultivation..., I just spent the last 6 hours looking for any substantial (clinical/peer reviewed) write-ups on cannabis & defoliation (most noteworthy-- were studies based on "pruning") online..
> 
> Anyone got any links? or books to recommend??
> 
> @alex.. love that song!


 sure do. ed rosenthal's closet cultivation  pretty good read does suggest trimming fan leaves in small areas.... so far the best book so far( nothing to do with defoliation) is TLO by the rev


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 22, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> I'm not sure how defoliation is labeled "advanced" cultivation..., I just spent the last 6 hours looking for any substantial (clinical/peer reviewed) write-ups on cannabis & defoliation (most noteworthy-- were studies based on "pruning") online..
> 
> Anyone got any links? or books to recommend??
> 
> @alex.. love that song!


I find it catchy too! Its all good, some is just better than others....


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 22, 2013)

Thanks keebo, I actually own a copy, so let me take a look at what mr. Rosenthal wrote


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> Each and every one of them are Grammy award winning musicians. Most all of us have probably heard them in one of our favorite songs. Many would be surprised who is under some of those wraps!


I can believe that. Their horn section is really polished.


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 22, 2013)

If they are in a town near you then its a must see show.


----------



## keebo3000 (Feb 22, 2013)

akula said:


> Flat Earth was not a scientific theory but a mythical religious one. In some ancient cultures people did believe their world was flat, but they based it on nothing but on their myths and perception. Even when science in those cultures proved that it was not flat, many of the uneducated refused to believe in anything but a flat Earth because it fit into their religious paradigms. It was their only reality even with it being contrary to indisputable evidence to show otherwise. So this is not really a very good argument against using science instead of individual perceived perceptions.


edison had to giva away a free light post before people would belive in electricity ... scientific enough?


----------



## keebo3000 (Feb 22, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> [video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/6Zy297Xgr8Q[/video]



maybe my scale is broken??? [video=youtube_share;hfquW-m_UdU]http://youtu.be/hfquW-m_UdU[/video]


what he said.


----------



## dopeboi69 (Feb 22, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> The "little bullshitters", eh? 'Pot calling kettle black' comes to mind.
> 
> Who in the hell are you? Where are your plants, big shot?
> 
> UB


 that's funny cuz we all have seen your plants, and they are average at best. you better be able to handle some criticism when you post that many pics on the net. don't get all butt hurt when I say this as it's not an insult. we CAN call you out on your mistakes and imperfections because they are for everyone to see. you CAN'T call us out on anything because we aren't the ones handing out advice, at least I'm not.........


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

dopeboi69 said:


> that's funny cuz we all have seen your plants, and they are average at best. you better be able to handle some criticism when you post that many pics on the net. don't get all butt hurt when I say this as it's not an insult. we CAN call you out on your mistakes and imperfections because they are for everyone to see. you CAN'T call us out on anything because we aren't the ones handing out advice, at least I'm not.........


You just got a spanking for lieing. Keep it up kid, and you'll get another one from me. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/584390-leaving-lower-branches-2nd-harvest-2.html


----------



## akula (Feb 22, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> Since when is it against the medical laws to post pics of your grow online? That's a new one on me, if it's true..


Well less then a year ago a large farm was raided by the Feds and local authorities. The search warrant was obtained specifically because of pictures published in a newspaper story earlier. They cited publicizing the pictures were grounds to pull each growers card since it was against the stated regulations. The farm owner was arrested on federal charges and supposedly every individual grower had their legal grow status pulled. 

But I'm sure you know better since you live in California and there is no mmp then the one in your state right? Even before this story I was warned about posting pics on CL that could be considered publicising my grow site. Since I belong to a clone exchange, I do it anyways. But like I said, why would I just to appease someone here? No motivation for me.


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 22, 2013)

Again, there is a difference between repeatable results and shit house luck....


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

akula said:


> Well less then a year ago a large farm was raided by the Feds and local authorities. The search warrant was obtained specifically because of pictures published in a newspaper story earlier. They cited publicizing the pictures were grounds to pull each growers card since it was against the stated regulations. The farm owner was arrested on federal charges and supposedly every individual grower had their legal grow status pulled.
> 
> But I'm sure you know better since you live in California and there is no mmp then the one in your state right? Even before this story I was warned about posting pics on CL that could be considered publicising my grow site. Since I belong to a clone exchange, I do it anyways. But like I said, why would I just to appease someone here? No motivation for me.


If you're not willing to pay for an anon service, use the TOR Project. It's excellent.

https://www.torproject.org/

UB


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 22, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> Again, there is a difference between repeatable results and shit house luck....


Kinda like what I told sir ganja the other day, After plucking all the leaves off and feeding that advanced nutrient crap, His plants need 2 weeks of plain water and rest to recover from the stress. lol


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 22, 2013)

**Read, what Rosenthal wrote, makes sense. But let me get back to the OPs reason for starting this tread.. His homie applied "unplanned extreme defoliation"--- that is whats not making any sense to me, not the practice of systematic leaf pruning for planned canopy management  What his friend did, most likely will not help the overall finish~ Unless.. Cannabis can use it's root system like some parasitic plants (achieving all energy requirements from the roots), when the fan leaves were removed, then I guess it might be plausible~ But I doubt it..


----------



## ultraviolet pirate (Feb 22, 2013)

uncle ben, you have years of experience under your belt and trees the size of men. why the fuck would anyone listen to you?


----------



## akula (Feb 22, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> If you're not willing to pay for an anon service, use the TOR Project. It's excellent.
> 
> https://www.torproject.org/
> 
> UB


Oh I know all about TOR and use it quite extensively in places like SR. 

Like I said it is not something they really enforce and I post pics of clones on CL. That farm was just on the radar because it was so large and the newspaper story was just a big fuck you and so the state retaliated. I'm just a guy with a few patients, they don't care about me. But I'm not gonna play reindeer games with trolls looking for dick comparisons contests with only my dick. I actually believe I have posted pics before here at rollitup up but not to appease trolls.


----------



## dopeboi69 (Feb 22, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> You just got a spanking for lieing. Keep it up kid, and you'll get another one from me. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/584390-leaving-lower-branches-2nd-harvest-2.html


oh I lied? about what? Oh and you said that side lighting doesn't work, that is absolutely WRONG as well. try again idiot, but be more specific this time.


----------



## grapeoptimo (Feb 22, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> I'm not sure how defoliation is labeled "advanced" cultivation..., I just spent the last 6 hours looking for any substantial (clinical/peer reviewed) write-ups on cannabis & defoliation (most noteworthy-- were studies based on "pruning") online..
> 
> Anyone got any links? or books to recommend??
> 
> ...


Have you ever listened to Heavy T's grow show? DFZradio.com Anyways, they are a radio show and I have heard them say that defoliation has personally worked for them to increase yields. I'd like to say 2 things about that statement. 1st. Not massive defoliation, 30% of the fan leaves at max is what they have said, an 2nd If it increases the amount of light that gets to the lower bud sites and the plant pulls its energy from the roots then I think it can increase yield. Who knows tho, I've been practicing it somewhat, when I'm not lazy or doing other things.


----------



## HeartlandHank (Feb 22, 2013)

dopeboi69 said:


> that's funny cuz we all have seen your plants, and they are average at best. you better be able to handle some criticism when you post that many pics on the net. don't get all butt hurt when I say this as it's not an insult. we CAN call you out on your mistakes and imperfections because they are for everyone to see. you CAN'T call us out on anything because we aren't the ones handing out advice, at least I'm not.........


UB's O Haze... average? you're crazy.


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 22, 2013)

grapeoptimo said:


> Have you ever listened to Heavy T's grow show? DFZradio.com Anyways, they are a radio show and I have heard them say that defoliation has personally worked for them to increase yields. I'd like to say 2 things about that statement. 1st. Not massive defoliation, 30% of the fan leaves at max is what they have said, an 2nd If it increases the amount of light that gets to the lower bud sites and the plant pulls its energy from the roots then I think it can increase yield. Who knows tho, I've been practicing it somewhat, when I'm not lazy or doing other things.


Cool, I'll check out that website~ Yea, my only issue is with massive defol, but I will for sure try defol experiments in the future just to see the results first hand.


----------



## dopeboi69 (Feb 22, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> UB's O Haze... I wouldn't call that average bud.


I like how you guys act like there isn't 10,000 other people who do the exact same thing and even better every 2 weeks.........
But whatever, the closed mindset is why we are typing on our computers in the first place. So it's not like anything is gonna change.


----------



## HeartlandHank (Feb 22, 2013)

dopeboi69 said:


> I like how you guys act like there isn't 10,000 other people who do the exact same thing and even better every 2 weeks.........
> But whatever, the closed mindset is why we are typing on our computers in the first place. So it's not like anything is gonna change.


dopeboi, you are making assumptions. . it's clearly a very pure sativa. BX from O Haze, so he says, but i believe him. There is nothing "average" about that. That's all I'm saying.


----------



## shnkrmn (Feb 22, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> someone who admits to liking Toni basil,lol





cannawizard said:


> /facepalm... lets just keep this between us... haha


Well, she was awesome in Easy Rider:

[youtube]twBsqfymTYk[/youtube]


----------



## Bud Brewer (Feb 22, 2013)

That Haze uncle Bmeat grew outside all year it could have been a massive tree but it wasn't because he topped it he got four nice colas in a whole season better call guinness.

Just have to remind everbody ub defoliated half a plant once and didn't notice a difference now that makes him an expert.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 22, 2013)

Ok to get this thread back on track... seems to be getting bigger leafs than few days ago. Thats plus. Buds have moved towards light deffinetly. No difference in bud growth though. Bottom buds that were prett much hairs have gotten some thickness but nothing to noticeable... updated my thread in hydro section with alot of pics.
This is week 4 day 5... plenty of time left i guess. I did lower nutrient levels too


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 22, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> **Read, what Rosenthal wrote, makes sense. But let me get back to the OPs reason for starting this tread.. His homie applied "unplanned extreme defoliation"--- that is whats not making any sense to me, not the practice of systematic leaf pruning for planned canopy management  What his friend did, most likely will not help the overall finish~ Unless.. Cannabis can use it's root system like some parasitic plants (achieving all energy requirements from the roots), when the fan leaves were removed, then I guess it might be plausible~ But I doubt it..


He was reading the post about defoliation on that other forum its the only write i have found for defoliating really. It says to completely remove ALL fan leafs. So its not leaf management like you said. The defoliating way is to remove all fan leafs every so often... doing canopy management isnt really defoliating cause most people do that anyways... what you said about the roots system is prett much what the guy doing write up was descibing DOES happen an why they are not needed in flowering.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

Why have my posts been selectively removed from this thread ?
moderators you really need to remain impartial even when your boy is getting a slap
what happened to freedom of speech ?

this thread has been selectively edited by moderators in an attempt to favour friends of moderators 
what a shame the game was rigged from the start tut tut @ mods


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 22, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> *
> 
> http://player.vimeo.com/video/56534375​
> 
> ...


Now thats some bad ass shit....

edit:the gliding video is what I meant.....


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> Now thats some bad ass shit....


Tor is quite useful but painfully slow, many folk still like to encrypt any sensitive data before they send it 
sending a home address or anything sensitive over TOR will be seen as plain text at the TOR exit node
you can use PGP or something similar to encrypt sensitive data if you are extra paranoid before you send it over TOR

peace


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> Why have my posts been selectively removed from this thread ?
> moderators you really need to remain impartial even when your boy is getting a slap
> what happened to freedom of speech ?
> 
> ...


--Just wanna say its not me doing the editing


----------



## cannawizard (Feb 22, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> He was reading the post about defoliation on that other forum its the only write i have found for defoliating really. It says to completely remove ALL fan leafs. So its not leaf management like you said. The defoliating way is to remove all fan leafs every so often... doing canopy management isnt really defoliating cause most people do that anyways... what you said about the roots system is prett much what the guy doing write up was descibing DOES happen an why they are not needed in flowering.


--Been looking at that factoid about other plants, and Cannabis root system might actually have that trait (not sure, but i'm betting its a good place to start looking)


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> --Just wanna say its not me doing the editing


Its sad these threads always end up the same way whatever site they are on 

personally i do not think these plants look that great, they look skinny to me, lol he claims 10-12 oz
they look smaller than that to me , anyway 
maybe this is where some folk got their ideas from 
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163

still even though i do not think it is a good idea to pick all the leaves off myself, i still like to see folk experiment
i do not understand why all the scientist's among us throw a fit, what other folk do with their plants is none of their businesses especially if they are not asking for help
if the guy is happy with his results let him be

perhaps it is just as case of some folk having the know-it-all mentality being compelled to give advice 

[video=youtube;nkZdTHmX0TQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkZdTHmX0TQ[/video]


peace


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> Its sad these threads always end up the same way whatever site they are on
> 
> personally i do not think these plants look that great, they look skinny to me, lol he claims 10-12 oz
> they look smaller than that to me , anyway
> ...


or maybe, just maybe, he has seen it a thousand times from every NEW grower that thinks they reinvented the wheel and figures if he can teach one, it's worth the fighting. I for one have saved hundreds,if not thousands following ub's advise.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> or maybe, just maybe, he has seen it a thousand times from every NEW grower that thinks they reinvented the wheel and figures if he can teach one, it's worth the fighting. I for one have saved hundreds,if not thousands following ub's advise.


like i said it makes no sense to get upset about something that is not your business
i am able to disagree with people without getting upset in the process
perhaps this is more about how folk conduct themselves and what message they send out when they display ignorance and arrogance by the truck load
if someone is failing to get his message across and is sick of helping lots of newbies with the same problem , then he can either give up. or perhaps try preaching a different gospel
either way this is none of my concern, i am not responsible for the emotional stability of strangers on the internet 

i am happy you have saved money, although i am a little worried that you needed to come to a forum and ask for help in order to save thousands
are you unable to do your own research ? perhaps this is knowledge UB gave you that saved you thousands is special knowledge that only he knows ? 

peace


----------



## Ninjabowler (Feb 22, 2013)

I had a friend tell me to defol in bloom over a month in and i did it. Four plants, two different strains, 2 TW and 2SB. I did one of each. Then i cut down the four plants all at the same time and the ones that i had defoliated in bloom were very noticably lighter, not just the weight of the taken leaves either, much more.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 22, 2013)

They less than half way into flower... im looking for 7.5 lb total. I only need 4 to cover my expenses that built the room... i think its realistic 8oz a plant. Which is why i said i would lose a lb if these 2 plants sucked an died. These plants gets buds thick like soda bottles for tops so i know they have bunch of growing.

My stems are not super thick because they were never trained. No stress whole life. Look at people who scrog or supercrop, you always see big knuckle or thick stem. Thats all from manipulation IMO. True, if i had trained these i would get more BUT the point of these 12aret o get 4lb so just let them grow out how they wanted to cause i easily get that. I had 2 veg rooms and a matching flower room to build while these were going so didnt have much time for them.

I will easily get 10-12oz if i setup my scrog like i want to for next batch. Clones are fully rooted and monday they go in veg. Just gotta get a plan to move them from veg to flower after they started into a screen in veg room, or i do 24 in my room without scrog compared to 12 with scrog.... if i dont figure out easy solution then i wont bother scrog as even a 4lb per 12 will be fine and will get without touching them except to lollipop.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 22, 2013)

Btw that is the exact thread which is copy and pasted everywhere on internet lol


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> like i said it makes no sense to get upset about something that is not your business
> i am able to disagree with people without getting upset in the process
> perhaps this is more about how folk conduct themselves and what message they send out when they display ignorance and arrogance by the truck load
> if someone is failing to get his message across and is sick of helping lots of newbies with the same problem , then he can either give up. or perhaps try preaching a different gospel
> ...


when i wanted to learn to grow, a friend told me to go read everything UB posted. Good enough?


----------



## HeartlandHank (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> he claims 10-12 oz
> they look smaller than that to me


Yeah, I said the same thing. I just don't buy it. Those plants look more like 6-7 oz.


----------



## akula (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> still even though i do not think it is a good idea to pick all the leaves off myself, i still like to see folk experiment
> *i do not understand why all the scientist's among us throw a fit, what other folk do with their plants* is none of their businesses especially if they are not asking for help
> if the guy is happy with his results let him be


How ironic you would wonder this in a thread that was started by a guy worried about his plants because his partner read some newbs post on defoliation ,and completely misinterpreted it, and ripped the thing to shreds. This is exactly why people ask for evidence to back the science behind an experiment prior to them writing it as the new great cannabis technique. 

I am all for experimentation, but the first part of experimentation should be at least some basic research as to the science behind your hypothesis of your experiment. Especially if you are going to publish this, like cannabis grow forums, for others to read. For example; if I hypothesize that covering my plants leaves with tar and feathers may make them create a "higher" end product, I may want to at least do a simple google search to find out what function the leaves provide. In that search I will find out that leaves use a process of taking nutrients and light (called photosynthesis) to produce sugars used in the plants sinks (calyxes/buds). I might then want to rethink my experiment based on blocking part of that process to create a better end product. It doesn't take a scientist to do this. Again this is why we have fools on this forum grabbing anything from oxyclean and zoloft-piss to dump on their plants.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> when i wanted to learn to grow, a friend told me to go read everything UB posted. Good enough?


If it works for you and you are happy that is great, i would rather learn for myself than follow a specific guide
but then again when i started growing there was no internet 

some folk appreciate the spoon-fed approach, others find piecing together all the information part of the pleasure, each to their own 
peace


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

akula said:


> How ironic you would wonder this in a thread that was started by a guy worried about his plants because his partner read some newbs post on defoliation ,and completely misinterpreted it, and ripped the thing to shreds. This is exactly why people ask for evidence to back the science behind an experiment prior to them writing it as the new great cannabis technique.
> 
> I am all for experimentation, but the first part of experimentation should be at least some basic research as to the science behind your hypothesis of your experiment. For example; if I hypothesize that covering my plants leaves with tar and feathers may make them create a "higher" end product, I may want to at least do a simple google search to find out what function the leaves provide. In that search I will find out that leaves use a process of taking nutrients and light (called photosynthesis) to produce sugars used in the plants sinks (calyxes/buds). I might then want to rethink my experiment based on blocking part of that process to create a better end product. It doesn't take a scientist to do this. Again this is why we have fools on this forum grabbing anything from oxyclean and zoloft-piss to dump on their plants.



this guide tells them to rip all the leaves off, leaving just a few have you read it lol ? 
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163
starting in veg, 

if harm comes to their plants so be it, they will learn hopefully from their mistakes

did you work out how to use TOR yet, ? lol
i am not fond of your colorful vivid analogies such a flare for the dramatic
kind of like those hyperactive kids that talk to much 

you should not let what others do upset you, worry about your own plants, you can point them in the right direction, i think you know the rest


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> Yeah, I said the same thing. I just don't buy it. Those plants look more like 6-7 oz.


glad you said that m8, even though it is pretty hard to guess the weight of a plant, i normally under estimate myself
i really did not think they looked anywhere near 12 oz, i have taken down many large plants, 10 oz plants in my space look much bigger than that
20 oz needed 2x 600 to cover it 

peace


----------



## akula (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> did you work out how to use TOR yet, ? lol
> i am not fond of your colorful vivid analogies such a flare for the dramatic
> kind of like those hyperactive kids that talk to much


You know for someone who like to throw around claims that everyone is being a big bad meanie to them, you sure have are full of a lot of passive-aggressive insults you lay all around to everyone. This one thread is just completely full of them. Are you female by any chance? I have known many females that behave exactly this way. 

Regardless I am done with you. All you seem to do here is argue with *everyone *using your passive-aggressive insults while crying about how *everyone *picks on you. I dont have time for that kind of crap. I do apologize for my fucking with you earlier, I figured you took it as a light hearted joke, but now I realize you took it very seriously.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

akula said:


> You know for someone who like to throw around claims that everyone is being a big bad meanie to them, you sure have are full of a lot of passive-aggressive insults you lay all around to everyone. This one thread is just completely full of them. Are you female by any chance? I have known many females that behave exactly this way.
> 
> Regardless I am done with you. All you seem to do here is argue with *everyone *using your passive-aggressive insults while crying about how *everyone *picks on you. I dont have time for that kind of crap. I do apologize for my fucking with you earlier, I figured you took it as a light hearted joke, but now I realize you took it very seriously.


you are too scared to share pictures, what use are you ?
you follow uncle ben around like a little cheerleader lol a little yes man anyone is free to use the search function to verify this

stop being a runt, be yourself, get over your fears learn how to use TOR, and get those pics posted and please stop the dramatic drivel 

are you suggesting i am female as an insult ? 
is it an insult to be female ?
i do sometimes fear i am talking with a bunch of teenagers


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> If it works for you and you are happy that is great, i would rather learn for myself than follow a specific guide
> but then again when i started growing there was no internet
> 
> some folk appreciate the spoon-fed approach, others find piecing together all the information part of the pleasure, each to their own
> peace


 Just following the links he posts can have you reading for a year, sorry my friend didn't tell me to read everything you wrote, MMMMMMMm wonder why that is?
for someone who cries about Ub being grumpy, I think your a bit of a hypocrite.


----------



## ElfoodStampo (Feb 22, 2013)

I think ripping leaves off the plant creates an optical illusion. All the buds look bigger because they don't have enormous fan leaves to compete with anymore. 
If your charging batteries with solar power, do you get a faster or more intense charge by ripping out solar cells?
IDK


----------



## HeartlandHank (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> If it works for you and you are happy that is great, i would rather learn for myself than follow a specific guide
> but then again when i started growing there was no internet
> 
> some folk appreciate the spoon-fed approach, others find piecing together all the information part of the pleasure, each to their own
> peace


I enjoy being able to feel like I'm learning or getting something done while laying in bed (reading a how-to). But I too learn better by doing. I found these forums extremely helpful with equipment choices, info on genetics, room design,, stuff like that. You don't want to learn what size fan you need from experience.. you want to find the right size without spending more or using more electricity than you need. Carbon filter size... you don't want to learn that it was too small to control odor when your door gets kicked in. 

The problem with these cannabis forums is that there is so much bad information being put out there. It's not because there are not good growers on RIU.. It is because there are not many good growers on RIU who care to try and scream louder than the trolls to be heard. 

When you decide you are going to write up that "HHank's how to %^&%*&" you just put yourself out there to be challenged.
While these challenges in a group of professionals would bring forth great things.... in our cannabis forums here it turns into screaming matches, insults, trolling.

I think you would be better served picking up a simple grow book... rosenthal.. cervantes.. whatever. Then just jump in with some bagseed under a T8 strip ($20) from the HDepot. 

I am very very high at the moment and rambling but there has to be something of worth in there.


----------



## elkukupanda (Feb 22, 2013)

ElfoodStampo said:


> I think ripping leaves off the plant creates an optical illusion. All the buds look bigger because they don't have enormous fan leaves to compete with anymore.
> If your charging batteries with solar power, do you get a faster or more intense charge by ripping out solar cells?
> IDK


There is a hormonal response when the plant is hurt and also the nitrogen level to ethylene ration dramatically changes so there is a response of fruit growth all of the sudden, however, keep in mind that all the food that was stored within those leaves its gone... long story short... less yield by time ratio..


----------



## akula (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> you are too scared to share pictures, what use are you ?
> you follow uncle ben around like a little cheerleader lol a little yes man anyone is free to use the search function to verify this
> 
> stop being a runt, be yourself, get over your fears learn how to use TOR, and get those pics posted and please stop the dramati
> ...


No I think your a greasy no life troll that can't handle when people fight back so you cry like a little bitch. And your too stupid to figure out when someone just fucking with you. No wonder why so many have put you on ignore.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

chuck estevez said:


> Just following the links he posts can have you reading for a year, sorry my friend didn't tell me to read everything you wrote, MMMMMMMm wonder why that is?
> for someone who cries about Ub being grumpy, I think your a bit of a hypocrite.


well its a pity you feel that way, each to their own 
happy growing


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

akula said:


> No I think your a greasy no life troll that can't handle when people fight back so you cry like a little bitch. And your too stupid to figure out when someone just fucking with you. No wonder why so many have put you on ignore.


you can sulk all you want, the fact is you are a follower and a runt, that is too scared to even post a picture of his grow


----------



## chuck estevez (Feb 22, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> I enjoy being able to feel like I'm learning or getting something done while laying in bed (reading a how-to). But I too learn better by doing. I found these forums extremely helpful with equipment choices, info on genetics, room design,, stuff like that. You don't want to learn what size fan you need from experience.. you want to find the right size without spending more or using more electricity than you need. Carbon filter size... you don't want to learn that it was too small to control odor when your door gets kicked in.
> 
> The problem with these cannabis forums is that there is so much bad information being put out there. It's not because there are not good growers on RIU.. It is because there are not many good growers on RIU who care to try and scream louder than the trolls to be heard.
> 
> ...


 well said.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 22, 2013)

HeartlandHank said:


> Yeah, I said the same thing. I just don't buy it. Those plants look more like 6-7 oz.


You guys do too many drugs... nowhere in this thread it say 10-12oz... i said so many times in this thread 8oz was what i was expecting each. I WANTED more but who the fuck doesnt... so yes what i WANT is 7.5lb. But a minimum id say i get i 8oz each. AFTER, what he did on those 2 we just wait and see how it goes which is point of this thread. It started off by seeing if people who do this would chime in. You would think after tons of pages in multiple other threads on this topic people who HAVE done this would chime in. Instead people just come and bicker. I just wanted to hear if they would recover based off EXPERIENCED people that DEFOLIATED... tons of people on posts for defoliating but so few EXPERIENCED in the matter.

From here on out the threads purpose since clearly only couple posts have had an experienced answer for me based on defoliating, is to see pictures showing how all fans were stripped and if/how it recovers and compares in yield. So if your here to bicker on same thing that has been bickered about in other threads in this month alone then go elsewhere... 

You wanna comment then comment on why you think they will/ wont recover based off EXPERIENCE on growing or defoliating, comment about the plants or how much an ass my buddy is. Idk comment about anything REGARDING THE THREAD. Just dont please bicker about beat up subjects or you pulling a statement out of your ass cause you dont read well.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 22, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> You guys do too many drugs... nowhere in this thread it say 10-12oz... i said so many times in this thread 8oz was what i was expecting each. I WANTED more but who the fuck doesnt... so yes what i WANT is 7.5lb. But a minimum id say i get i 8oz each. AFTER, what he did on those 2 we just wait and see how it goes which is point of this thread. It started off by seeing if people who do this would chime in. You would think after tons of pages in multiple other threads on this topic people who HAVE done this would chime in. Instead people just come and bicker. I just wanted to hear if they would recover based off EXPERIENCED people that DEFOLIATED... tons of people on posts for defoliating but so few EXPERIENCED in the matter.
> 
> From here on out the threads purpose since clearly only couple posts have had an experienced answer for me based on defoliating, is to see pictures showing how all fans were stripped and if/how it recovers and compares in yield. So if your here to bicker on same thing that has been bickered about in other threads in this month alone then go elsewhere...
> 
> You wanna comment then comment on why you think they will/ wont recover based off EXPERIENCE on growing or defoliating, comment about the plants or how much an ass my buddy is. Idk comment about anything REGARDING THE THREAD. Just dont please bicker about beat up subjects or you pulling a statement out of your ass cause you dont read well.



dude, before you go off on one, we were talking about the plants in the link, below this guy claims the plants he defoliated average 10-12 oz
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163
not your plants
so maybe its you that does too many drugs ? lol its ok i forgive you for your mistake 

peace


----------



## ElfoodStampo (Feb 22, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> There is a hormonal response when the plant is hurt and also the nitrogen level to ethylene ration dramatically changes so there is a response of fruit growth all of the sudden, however, keep in mind that all the food that was stored within those leaves its gone... long story short... less yield by time ratio..


So then the only appropriate time to do it would be what,, like the last 3-4 days? Perhaps it could be an alternative to flushing??
Thanks for the info,


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 22, 2013)

Lol, ok im sorry. Had no idea where it was coming from lol. My fault. Thanks for easy response too.


----------



## elkukupanda (Feb 22, 2013)

ElfoodStampo said:


> So then the only appropriate time to do it would be what,, like the last 3-4 days? Perhaps it could be an alternative to flushing??
> Thanks for the info,


Why would you want to defoliate? First time double harvesting and i'm loving it. Try to keep as many leaves as possible so you can collect more for your time. Flushing? why? maybe you are over fertilizing your plants so unless that is what happened i wouldn't bother... I'm going to rely more on drying and curing it good...


----------



## HeartlandHank (Feb 22, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Lol, ok im sorry. Had no idea where it was coming from lol. My fault. Thanks for easy response too.


No, you were right. I have been doing too many drugs lately. I'm going to eat healthy and stay sober for the weekend though.


----------



## hotrodharley (Feb 22, 2013)

Between all the frigging nutrient posts and people butchering plants it's lucky man didn't start cultivating it until a few thousand years ago. It would have died with the dodo if we had started sooner.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

ricky6991 said:


> Ok to get this thread back on track... seems to be getting bigger leafs than few days ago. Thats plus. Buds have moved towards light deffinetly. No difference in bud growth though. Bottom buds that were prett much hairs have gotten some thickness but nothing to noticeable... updated my thread in hydro section with alot of pics.
> This is week 4 day 5... plenty of time left i guess. I did lower nutrient levels too


Friend, it's what is to be expected, they look pathetic but thanks for having the balls to post them. 

I rest my case....


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> like i said it makes no sense to get upset about something that is not your business
> i am able to disagree with people without getting upset in the process
> perhaps this is more about how folk conduct themselves and what message they send out when they display ignorance and arrogance by the truck load
> if someone is failing to get his message across and is sick of helping lots of newbies with the same problem , then he can either give up. or perhaps try preaching a different gospel
> ...


You don't grow cannabis nor have you ever. You're another poser. RIU is full of them.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

ElfoodStampo said:


> If your charging batteries with solar power, do you get a faster or more intense charge by ripping out solar cells?
> IDK


Well done ~


----------



## ElfoodStampo (Feb 22, 2013)

elkukupanda said:


> Why would you want to defoliate? First time double harvesting and i'm loving it. Try to keep as many leaves as possible so you can collect more for your time. Flushing? why? maybe you are over fertilizing your plants so unless that is what happened i wouldn't bother... I'm going to rely more on drying and curing it good...


Srry man I was just toying with the info you gave me that breaking stems and leaves or whatever produced a response in the plant to create bud. If that's the case then removing energy deposits would (i think) cause the plant to go to the next source of sugar, the inner leaves of the buds. So simultaneously you finish out the plant while gaining extra weight. Thats what was going through my brain. But as usual I am quite high right now.I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing.. Thanks again.


----------



## ricky6991 (Feb 22, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Friend, it's what is to be expected, they look pathetic but thanks for having the balls to post them.
> 
> I rest my case....


Ahhh, some faith lol... im hoping they get somewhat bigger.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 22, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> i would rather learn for myself than follow a specific guide
> but then again when i started growing there was no internet


I assume that was after you and the U.S.S. Enterprise crew came across the S.S. Botany Bay, an old-style, pre-warp sleeper ship from Earth that contains several celestial cannabis bodies in stasis....as that nasty Uncle Khan went after the beautiful Lieutenant Marla McGivers, the big breasted ship's historian who has a passion for strong-willed posers who appear to be bucking for the level of Captain.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Feb 23, 2013)

akula said:


> Well less then a year ago a large farm was raided by the Feds and local authorities. The search warrant was obtained specifically because of pictures published in a newspaper story earlier. They cited publicizing the pictures were grounds to pull each growers card since it was against the stated regulations. The farm owner was arrested on federal charges and supposedly every individual grower had their legal grow status pulled.
> 
> But I'm sure you know better since you live in California and there is no mmp then the one in your state right? Even before this story I was warned about posting pics on CL that could be considered publicising my grow site. Since I belong to a clone exchange, I do it anyways. But like I said, why would I just to appease someone here? No motivation for me.





akula said:


> Oh I know all about TOR and use it quite extensively in places like SR.
> 
> Like I said it is not something they really enforce and I post pics of clones on CL. That farm was just on the radar because it was so large and the newspaper story was just a big fuck you and so the state retaliated. I'm just a guy with a few patients, they don't care about me. But I'm not gonna play reindeer games with trolls looking for dick comparisons contests with only my dick. I actually believe I have posted pics before here at rollitup up but not to appease trolls.


Hmm.. It sounds like you can't really back up your claims of posting pics of your "legal" medical grow being against regulations, aside from some general hearsay. I expected you might link me to your local ordinance for me to review. Instead you talk about some likely misinformation from a newspaper article. Obviously they were busted because they weren't really legal. It sounds like you might be concerned too, because you might not actually really be fully legal yourself. Hmm..

Oh, and speaking of posers, here comes one now..



elkukupanda said:


> Why would you want to defoliate? First time double harvesting and i'm loving it. Try to keep as many leaves as possible so you can collect more for your time. Flushing? why? maybe you are over fertilizing your plants so unless that is what happened i wouldn't bother... I'm going to rely more on drying and curing it good...


Seriously dude, get through one harvest before you keep talking shit and acting like some expert. It doesn't count as a double harvest when you do the first harvest two weeks early. White Widow is an 8 week strain at least, not a 6 week strain like you harvested this bud at:






https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/603718-6-weeks-zeed-10.html#post8699152

It's supposed to look like this, by the way:


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 23, 2013)

akula said:


> No I think your a greasy no life troll that can't handle when people fight back so you cry like a little bitch. And your too stupid to figure out when someone just fucking with you. No wonder why so many have put you on ignore.


You hit the nail right on the head. He just wants to stir the pot, then set back and watch the fight. Same old shit, just a different day and thread....PJ pretty much rolls the same way. I recommend ignoring them both....


----------



## Thundercat (Feb 23, 2013)

I think we need to ignore all these people that make a game of trolling, and abusing others. There are way to many of them, and they are not all new guys. Ub you have some fantastic knowledge, but you need to loose the attitude. It makes you look juvenile the way you attack people for having their own views/ideas. You are not the king of cannabis, and if you don't like a thread topic, or what the OP has to say just skip that thread. The only reason I can see that you would choose to behave in such a manner is if your just really bored. Perhaps all you guys that bring negativity to these threads should all take some time off of the internet and focus on your real lives. I am very selective about which threads I post on, and what advice I give or don't. Rather then try to shove my believes down others throats I choose to live and let live. I choose to encourage people, that includes encouraging them to experiment to "find whats best for them". If they choose to do something and it turns out bad then that sucks lesson learned, we've all done it at some point. 

At the top of this page UB tells the OP his plants look pathetic, first I completely disagree, they surely look pretty decent. Using this negativity to reinforce your beliefs doesn't make you any more right, and it does erode your credibility. You could have simply said thanks for posting the pics, you didn't need to tear this guy down. We all know how you feel about this topic, so if you don't have anything useful to bring to the discussion why bother?

Several of you keep getting mad at skunkdoc, when he has said multiple times he doesn't think defoliation makes sense. The only other thing he has commented on is all of your childish behavior, silly arguments, and negativity. He has also simply stated that some people have to learn for themselves. The OP said his partner has offered to take any "loss" himself, and when/if there is a loss he will have learned he went over board. 
_
What are you all gonna say if those 2 plants weigh more?_ I'm not saying they will but as I've added to this thread before I don't think your gonna loose as much as you think. Unlike others I will state that, that is my *Opinion*, and I hope for the sake of your harvest that I'm correct. If I'm wrong then it won't be the first time this week and I'll live with it. So if they did happen to some how weigh more, was it not because of the defol? Was it because of some other factor, if so what? 

I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone, only provide a level headed view of the situation, and offer some on topic questions to maintain the direction of the conversation.


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 23, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> You don't grow cannabis nor have you ever. You're another poser. RIU is full of them.


You have seen many pictures of my plants in various threads. are you seriously that absent minded ?
your insults carry no weight they simply display your lack of tolerance to the opinions of others
you are a botanist, right ? a man of science , and this is how you conduct yourself, with language like 





Uncle Ben said:


> Look you little piece of shit 15 year old troll....hand the keyboard back off to your big brother and go to bed.UB






this is how teenagers communicate with each other on YouTube, i guess this is how Internet botanist's communicate too, but seriously whom are you trying to be now ? 
with your not so witty retorts, something about you reminds me of Walter Mitty

your plants are full of yellow and half dead leaves your colas are not very large your plants are basically average, yet you carry on like a guru with your hilarious topping to get 4 colas guide

you have been called out as a fraud by many growers on this forum, on various threads
your views are outdated, you are ignorant you inhibit progress , you maybe of some help to non growers/newbies to get them started
that is where your views should stay, in the newbie section


you are the culprit that makes claims that everyone should grow like you,
you preach rather than teach, and get nasty when you are corrected which is well documented again through various threads and posts on RIU

either you are considerably arrogant or you think everyone is blind 
you have the great skill of selective blindness, ignoring posts when you are corrected, choosing very carefully which posts you respond to

since it is you that claims to know everything because you are a scientist, i would say the onus is on your to provide expert pictures of expert plants, since you are an expert
to the contrary all you have done is provide insults and mediocre plants with dead leaves on them
step up, or quit the bullshit chump .. impress me


----------



## akula (Feb 23, 2013)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> You hit the nail right on the head. He just wants to stir the pot, then set back and watch the fight. Same old shit, just a different day and thread....PJ pretty much rolls the same way. I recommend ignoring them both....


Yeah I am one step ahead already done. I am seeing there is a subset of people here that follow UB around and try to troll him. If you agree with something he says, then you become a target. I don't have time for trolls like those and don't bother with people who are stuck in being envious of others, so much so they become anti-fans and it engulfs them. It's almost like a sickness.


----------



## Beachside (Feb 23, 2013)

You are all a bunch of fucking losers! Look at you all posting all day all week long about drivel that you should have learned in middle school! Then the most moronic attack someone for pushing scientific fact. I would say lay off the pipe and go take some classes at UC Davis but I am quite sure that you rejects from the real world have yet to graduate high school. You are so fucking stupid you can't even see why a professional would be so pissed at your misrepresentation of logic. But please go beat the shit out of your plant... You know best. The bullshit rhetoric started in the early am on a weekday and continued all day long.... Get the fuck out of your mothers basement and get a fucking life! You are arguing against well proven science... You are a luddite, a moron and egomaniac. I am glad people like you all are out there! Otherwise people wouldn't drive all the way out here to cali to buy their meds! Hahahahahahaha 

But seriously. Your lives sound pitiful! Go to school and when you do you might learn to respect knowledge and appreciate the work of others before you. Maybe then you can get a job so instead of going online and playing with your little dick all day you could actually help make the world a better place. Or you could just be a worthless, greedy, self serving son of a bitch who only cares about making money. But as I see it now you are neither. Looser Internet wannabes.... Please enlighten me with all you experience growing in a box with house fluorescent light! Hahahahahahaha here is a little science... The peramiters of your experement are inherently FUBAR! If you think you are helping anyone guess again. All you are accomplishing is documenting, in painstaking detail, you ignorence and inadequacy concerning the growth of the one plant in the world which grows everywhere. I gaurantee the majority of you could not get an orchid to bloom if you had ten years to try!


----------



## skunkd0c (Feb 23, 2013)

Beachside said:


> You are all a bunch of fucking losers! Look at you all posting all day all week long about drivel that you should have learned in middle school! Then the most moronic attack someone for pushing scientific fact. I would say lay off the pipe and go take some classes at UC Davis but I am quite sure that you rejects from the real world have yet to graduate high school. You are so fucking stupid you can't even see why a professional would be so pissed at your misrepresentation of logic. But please go beat the shit out of your plant... You know best. The bullshit rhetoric started in the early am on a weekday and continued all day long.... Get the fuck out of your mothers basement and get a fucking life! You are arguing against well proven science... You are a luddite, a moron and egomaniac. I am glad people like you all are out there! Otherwise people wouldn't drive all the way out here to cali to buy their meds! Hahahahahahaha
> 
> 
> But seriously. Your lives sound pitiful! Go to school and when you do you might learn to respect knowledge and appreciate the work of others before you. Maybe then you can get a job so instead of going online and playing with your little dick all day you could actually help make the world a better place. Or you could just be a worthless, greedy, self serving son of a bitch who only cares about making money. But as I see it now you are neither. Looser Internet wannabes.... Please enlighten me with all you experience growing in a box with house fluorescent light! Hahahahahahaha here is a little science... The peramiters of your experement are inherently FUBAR! If you think you are helping anyone guess again. All you are accomplishing is documenting, in painstaking detail, you ignorence and inadequacy concerning the growth of the one plant in the world which grows everywhere. I gaurantee the majority of you could not get an orchid to bloom if you had ten years to try!



what a lovely small wall of text, are you a gangsta by any chance ?


----------



## Bud Brewer (Feb 23, 2013)

What I find amusing is all the people who argue for week's about something they have never done but use and incourage other training methods like topping that slows a plant to a crawl check out my defoliation test the topped ones are so far behing the defoliated or natural ones and doesn' t have much better branching but defoliated and natural are even and twice the size of topped ones.

Rick I have posted on page five from someone who has defoliated more than half a plant once unlike Ub.

Your plants will be fine at worst you come up even most likely a bit more bud.

They got a little shock from taking all the leaves at once off a big plant I do it over a couple of days I did a half defoliation at three weeks flower and again a couple of weeks before chop I should have taken more off mine they are supper leafy.


----------



## bird mcbride (Feb 23, 2013)

Mj can be highly resiliant given the correct enviroment. Unless the plant is severed at the base there is always the possibility that the plant can not only make a comeback but go on to produce bud. It can even grow roots from a branch so even stumping, under the corret circumstances, mj could make a comeback.


----------



## Beachside (Feb 23, 2013)

Hi skunkdoc, who would have guessed ignorence and racism go hand in hand. Enjoy your worthless existence, I hear life is grand with an IQ less then 70.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 23, 2013)

skunkd0c said:


> *You have seen many pictures of my plants in various threads.* are you seriously that absent minded ?
> your insults carry no weight they simply display your lack of tolerance to the opinions of others
> you are a botanist, right ? a man of science , and this is how you conduct yourself, with language like
> 
> ...


I have only read posing type drivel. Never saw any photos other than your stupid Spock avatar, this after searching your profile and finding no existent galleries, journals, or photo albums. Put up or shut up kid. Where are your plants?

Recommend you change your posting name to save face and start all over. I will destroy what little is left of your lame persona.

UB


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 23, 2013)

Bud Brewer said:


> Rick I have posted on page five from someone who has defoliated more than half a plant once unlike Ub.


BB, you'll never be happy until you feel I have enjoined in your madness. Aint gonna happen bro, I march to a different drummer driven by botany.......so give up your fixation with me and go about your business. You've convinced yourself, OK? Is that not enough?

I really don't care what you do. 

Good luck,
UB


----------



## Vincent VonBlown (Feb 23, 2013)

Removing leaf?

Hmmm, well most growers problem is getting the leaf to stay on. So it's best to strive for as for as much leaf health as you can early on.

So, if you are in the catagory that you feel that your plants don't maintain that vibrant radiant leaf health. It's probably not as benificial to remove any leaf.

Another factor will be plant size (as will plant/leaf density), taking into consideration if you are growing very small plants (like I am at the moment) Because of the compact size, defoliation is most likely not an option for me.

Strain difference, sativas tend to keep growing and making more leaf, some strains are more capable of producing well with limited leaf.


----------



## Vincent VonBlown (Feb 23, 2013)

And also I think it's ridiculous, for any one person to think they know it all, whoever they may be.


Even me


----------



## Malevolence (Feb 24, 2013)

ElfoodStampo said:


> If your charging batteries with solar power, do you get a faster or more intense charge by ripping out solar cells?


Dumb analogy. Plants are living entities capable of adapting and change according to their situation and environment. Batteries are just fuckin batteries.

Also, OP your defoliated plants don't look that bad from the pics you posted.


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Feb 24, 2013)

Malevolence said:


> Dumb analogy. Plants are living entities capable of adapting and change according to their situation and environment.


Especially around cannabis forums where some 'make' them change beyond the physical laws of nature, horticulture and botany...or they just 'think' they do.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Feb 24, 2013)

Beachside said:


> You are all a bunch of fucking losers! Look at you all posting all day all week long about drivel that you should have learned in middle school! Then the most moronic attack someone for pushing scientific fact. I would say lay off the pipe and go take some classes at UC Davis but I am quite sure that you rejects from the real world have yet to graduate high school. You are so fucking stupid you can't even see why a professional would be so pissed at your misrepresentation of logic. But please go beat the shit out of your plant... You know best. The bullshit rhetoric started in the early am on a weekday and continued all day long.... Get the fuck out of your mothers basement and get a fucking life! You are arguing against well proven science... You are a luddite, a moron and egomaniac. I am glad people like you all are out there! Otherwise people wouldn't drive all the way out here to cali to buy their meds! Hahahahahahaha
> 
> But seriously. Your lives sound pitiful! Go to school and when you do you might learn to respect knowledge and appreciate the work of others before you. Maybe then you can get a job so instead of going online and playing with your little dick all day you could actually help make the world a better place. Or you could just be a worthless, greedy, self serving son of a bitch who only cares about making money. But as I see it now you are neither. Looser Internet wannabes.... Please enlighten me with all you experience growing in a box with house fluorescent light! Hahahahahahaha here is a little science... The peramiters of your experement are inherently FUBAR! If you think you are helping anyone guess again. All you are accomplishing is documenting, in painstaking detail, you ignorence and inadequacy concerning the growth of the one plant in the world which grows everywhere. I gaurantee the majority of you could not get an orchid to bloom if you had ten years to try!


Nice spanking! You laid it out 1,2,3....

Yep, this IS a perfect example of FUBAR, both in mind and spirit.

Best,
UB


----------



## Thundercat (Feb 24, 2013)

When exactly did race get involved in all this nonsense? I thought this thread was about plants.


----------



## Coho (Feb 24, 2013)

this is not directed at anyone specific:


----------



## potroastV2 (Feb 24, 2013)

Closed by the whiney leaf-strippers.


----------

