# My First Grow! DIY DWC & Grow Area, SNOW WHITE FEM FROM SEED!



## tmsculli (Aug 29, 2009)

Hello all

After months of research, months of preparation, months of building and assembling, today I finally start my first grow. 

*Seeds*

For my first grow, I will be using 5 feminized Snow White seeds from the Nirvana seed bank. I highly recommend them to anyone who needs seeds in the US. They were very discreet and quick. 

*Grow Area*

My grow area is a small bathroom closet that is 55.5" x 22" x 8' that is inside my room. I picked this area because I am the only person that ever goes into that bathroom and I will be able to keep it hidden. The area had no door, and had 3 shelves that were 2ft apart. I am also going to be using a 20" x 22" x 4' Veg box that will be used for my mother. I went in, took out the shelves and molding, and put the box I built snug into the hole it was made for it. (I love it when things fit) I then realized that the top of the box, and the side support that I removed would make for a perfect surface for a shelf and then another area. So I made a shelf over top of it. I then found a large closet door and put it into the door area. Sadly their was a large 4" gap on the top and left sides of the door. I then decided to lift the door up so that there was now a 4" hole on the bottom, that is now my passive air intake for the closet. I then built a small frame on the left side out of a 2x4 and called it a done deal. The door opens well and closes snug. I then lined the inside with mylar and threw in the towel.





















































*Grow System*

As it said in the title, this is a DIY DWC grow and I am loving every minute of it. I decided to focus most of my research on hydroponics and more specifically DWC. I built a main tank out an 18 gallon rubbermaid tote that has 5 net pots in the top. I also made a single plant tank out of a 5 gallon bucket that is going to be my mother tank in the veg box. Both of the lids are covered in aluminum foil tape to reflect the light. They also both have drain plugs in the bottom that are currently waiting on a little bit of marine caulk to finish the job. The big tote is using an Aqua Culture 20-60 gallon double outlet air pump *AND* a Tetra Whisper 100 Gallon double outlet air pump. Attached are small air stones, one 12" bubble wand, and one 6" air stone circle. The air is boostin'. The bucket is running with an Aqua Culture 20-60 Gallon double outlet air pump and a 6" air stone circle that is doing just great. 




























*Lights*

I am going with CFLs for this grow obviously for the small size, safety, efficiency but most importantly, the low heat. In the veg box I am running a power strip with 6 600 Lumen 14W "daylight" bulbs on splitters. On the other side, I have a power strip with two of the 1-to-3 socket converters on it. There are 2 800 lumen 14W "daylight" bulbs on each one making 4 in total. There are also two 2600 Lumen (can't remember the Watts, but it was quite a bit) on a splitter between the daylighters. This power strip hangs from a simple reflector made from a piece of duct that was unbent. This hangs from the shelf above it with some low grade chain. On either side of the power strip, there are 2 more independently hanging 2600 Lumen bulbs. I am hoping to drop these inside the plants for closer light since the heat is so low on them.











In the Veg Box






Main area















Alright, I think that is enough info as of right now. I am proud to say that last evening started the extravaganza and was coined DAY 1.


*DAY 1*

The seeds soaked in ph adjusted water overnight under the main area grow lights. The temperature was recorded at 76* F and the humidity was at 53%. I also adjusted a bowl of water down to about 5.5 and soaked 5 rockwool cubes.

Since it is just an overnight thing, I am counting today as day 1 too, plus I think I started soaking my seeds in the early AM hours. Regardless, today I went in and took a look at them and I already had some opening and root tip pointing out. So today I have been keeping them in the light and letting them soak still.


Even if the above is organized, don't let it fool you. I know what I have researched, not what I have learned from experience which tends to stick better for me. So, this is my first grow and I will be needing help. Along the trip if anyone has any questions, comments, concerns etc please direct them my way because I need it!!!

That being said, the first question:

My camera is currently uploading some high res pictures of my seeds to my computer. I will attach them to the bottom but I was wondering if I was ready to chuck them in the rockwool cubes? I have one complete crack, 3 popped open with a tip, and 1 with a very small opening. 



























Germination Station!

Should I chuck them into the rockwool now, or just the one that cracked maybe?

Thanks guys I can't wait to hear from you all!


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## tmsculli (Aug 29, 2009)

BUMP for my question at the bottom, can anyone help me out?


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## tmsculli (Aug 29, 2009)

ON top of that, the drain plug that I made will NOT stop leaking. I have tried seals and every sealant imaginable and it is still leaking.


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## skunkman98536 (Aug 29, 2009)

cool

shud be interesting to watch!


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## morganmegan (Aug 29, 2009)

Should start soil for first grow it is much easier.... very nice setup though. I tried Hydro on my first 10 beans and they all died or where so stressed out they hermied. Much easier with soil for the first time.


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## tmsculli (Aug 29, 2009)

I have fem seeds so hopefully I won't be having any huge issues like that. I honestly think I will be doing alright. My ph is good, my temps are good, and they have enough light to blind a small child.

I am so excited, I just planted them in the rockwool and turned everything on. I have the lights as low as I felt safe and the water level pretty high. 

For starting with seeds, how far below the net cups should the water level be?

Thanks!


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## Thought (Aug 29, 2009)

You can put seeds directly into the Rockwool and let them germ in there, in the first place. Now is just fine. PH adjusted water in the cubes, they have a high PH. Drop em in there and leave em be for a bit, they will be fine.


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## tmsculli (Aug 29, 2009)

Yea the water was adjusted to a low ph and they soaked over night. The seeds were planted into the cubes about 3 hours ago, so far so good. Temp is 73* and humidity is 48%

Everything sound okay? I am really paranoid that they are going to dry out. I have enough bubble power to inflate a house though...


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## tmsculli (Aug 29, 2009)

I currently have the above lighting situation (the one with the hood) above my rockwool cubes about 1.5" from the surface of my box. Is this okay? Since im not using it yet, should i swap out the 4 2700k guys and put in more 6500k daylight guys?


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## tmsculli (Aug 30, 2009)

I also have been reading things about humidity domes. Should I have one on my ladies while they are seeds in rockwool? I just made some up out of dasani bottles that are probably going to work, but I have no idea if they are supposed to be on them or not =/


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## tmsculli (Aug 30, 2009)

Day 2

Everything looks just ducky. The ps is solid, the rockwool is still moist, the temp is good, hopefully ill get some sprouts in the next few days.


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## tmsculli (Aug 31, 2009)

Day 3 

Still no sprouts or anything like that. I gave the rockwool a little bit more water last night. Biggest problem is this, I woke up and my power was tripped. I have a lot of stuff plugged into one outlet with a portable GFI plugged into it. I can't decide if I should run power from another farther away outlet too, or just loose the GFI or what. ONce they are actual plants the lighting can't be fucking up like that anymore.


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## tmsculli (Aug 31, 2009)

Mid-Day 3

Just checked on them again and looked into the rockwool to see that my ladies are slowly, but surely on their way! I see the seeds shell cracking and starting to get closer to the surface. I predict tomorrow morning I will have atleast one little lady on my hand. I am also going to keep updating this with close up HD pictures. I mess around with photography and have a pretty decent camera. I am hoping I can get some great close-up bud shots later in the process.

They are uploading now, I will link them to the site once they finish. 


I guess I'll stop having to talk to myself once we see a few sprouts eh?

Someone humor me! =P


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## tmsculli (Aug 31, 2009)

Here are my babies:

Tank






Didn't take them in a specific order, I am going to start doing day by day numbered pictures to look back on, it should be really cool.































This one the seed looks like it is pushing itself back out of the rockwool, that sounds like a seedling to me? Right?




























How do they look? I have never seen pictured updated daily like this so I don't know if what I have is correct.


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## SmokeDoggy (Aug 31, 2009)

Lights are too high - not a problem right now but once they are sprouting up out of the rockwool, get the lights down and the fans going to keep it all cool. High lights will make your plant long and stretchy, plus CFLs lose MAJOR lumens every inch or so. Read the CFL forums, you should try to keep them 2-3 inches from the leaves if possible.


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## tmsculli (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks for the tip. I did have them much lower but raised them because I got nervous. I will put them bacl thanks!


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## kanabiis420 (Aug 31, 2009)

the dasani bottles to make domes over sounds like a good idea to increase the moisture for them to sprout, but maybe not needed in your case if everything seems to going ok, as it looks. Nice.


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## tmsculli (Sep 1, 2009)

Can't sleep so I checked on my girls, and one decided to come up and say hello!

I have one beautiful little sprout with what appears to be many more on the way. I will post pictures tomorrow after class

Oh, I also swapped out two of the 2700k guys for 4 of the 6500k cfls


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## purpdaddy (Sep 1, 2009)

Help the lil guy pop up..use a toothpick or sumthin.the head can break off..happened to me last grow.Be very gentle.


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## seedmadness.com (Sep 1, 2009)

purpdaddy said:


> Help the lil guy pop up..use a toothpick or sumthin.the head can break off..happened to me last grow.Be very gentle.



hope it's not a guy lol


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## purpdaddy (Sep 1, 2009)

Oh yea take that back..dont wanna jinx you. Help the lil ladie out!


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## tmsculli (Sep 1, 2009)

Day 4

I woke up this morning to two beautiful little sprouts above the rockwool, but with some other bad information. I think that I may have dried out one or more of the other seeds. I'm not yet positive, but I think at least one of them is going to be ruined. I wish that I got all 5 of them to sprout, but I am pretty sure I screwed up.

It's hard to get a picture of, but the one seed looks like the initial stem that comes out is shriveled.


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## tmsculli (Sep 1, 2009)

Here are some pics from today












and the other












Still not sure about the others, I lowered the lights, made them all 6500k and set that up. Not sure about the dried out ones or not. I am just going to let them go and they are either dead, or alive, simple as that.


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## tmsculli (Sep 1, 2009)

So, the two sprouts that I have look great. The lights are nice and close and they look happy. The others I can't tell what is going on. I think that I may have dried a few of them out and they have died. I am hoping that at least one more makes it.

5 would be a little much, but I was hoping to deal with it.


I do have a question though. I have the 20x22x4' box that has the capability of being 100% dark. I was thinking about not having a mother plant. Do you think I can just veg, then clone right before I flower? I want to flower one plant at a time to keep a small but kinda steady flow.

What do you think I should do?


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## purpdaddy (Sep 1, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> So, the two sprouts that I have look great. The lights are nice and close and they look happy. The others I can't tell what is going on. I think that I may have dried a few of them out and they have died. I am hoping that at least one more makes it.
> 
> 5 would be a little much, but I was hoping to deal with it.
> 
> ...


It wont work out like that bro,,do research on Sea Of Green..Thats the op you need to shoot for if you wanna clone..or like a miny SOG.


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## tmsculli (Sep 1, 2009)

Oh is SOG kinda like grow it all clip, flower, grow clones, rinse repeat?

I'll definitely do more research though, thanks for the suggestion purp.


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## tmsculli (Sep 2, 2009)

Day 5

Sad to report that we do have casualties. I was hoping that I would be doing a stellar first grow and impress the hell out of everyone, but of course, I'm not haha. Two of my seeds did dry up in the rockwool. That is completely my fault. I should have watered them more. I had read too many times that over watering is the biggest noob killer for plants, so I was afraid.

That being said, I have 2 extremely healthy sprouts, and one seed that I think may make it. The seed has all sorts of green stuff coming out so it looks happy. I am happy to only have 3 plants now though. I am going to re-work my lighting fixtures and make it so that each plant has its own 3 6500k daylight bulbs above and to the sides of it for maximum light. 

I have the middle seed that may grow directly under 4 6500k cfls with 2 more 6500cfls on the side, if it doesn't sprout, I will be upset haha.

So, my camera just died so I can't upload pictures this second. I am going to charge it for a minute and then put them up on here. 



I also made another carbon filter yesterday and took my time with it. I think it may work. My fan didn't bog down much at all, but the suction from it still seems pretty weak. 

I have the 8" inline 500cfm fan 8' in the air in the ceiling venting into the attic. I also have a 75cfm 4" fan pushing area from the bottom area to the top, and a small fan circulating air. Do you think that the 8" is even doing anything? I guess there is no real way to tell until I get to time where stuff smells? What do you think?


Also, one more question. I have humboldt nutes and was wondering when to add them. Should I wait until the 3rd one sprouts, or should I try and take advantage of the health of the other 2?

Thanks guys!

please, questions, comments, etc!


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## purpdaddy (Sep 2, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Day 5
> 
> Sad to report that we do have casualties. I was hoping that I would be doing a stellar first grow and impress the hell out of everyone, but of course, I'm not haha. Two of my seeds did dry up in the rockwool. That is completely my fault. I should have watered them more. I had read too many times that over watering is the biggest noob killer for plants, so I was afraid.
> 
> ...


Hey man it woulod be a good idea to add a couple lower kelvin bulbs to get a more dual spectrum.You say you got 3 on each plant right? well iwould add another lower kelvin bulb or take one 6500K out and pput the lower kelvin bulb in its place.Thats what you mist go when using cfls.
When you flower,do the opposite.


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## tmsculli (Sep 2, 2009)

I have 4 2700k bulbs sitting around that I can use. I thought that the 2700 were good for flowering and the 6500 were good for vegging? Is it just best to have all of the spectrum? 

Anyone try those "all spectrums of light" cfls? What is the deal with them?

I may do 2 6500 and 1 2700 per plant.


pics should be up in a few minutes


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## tmsculli (Sep 2, 2009)

Here are today's pictures:

Sprout 1












Sprout 2



















QUESTION:


The lights are very close to the sprouts so I am not stretching them, but they are bending a bit. It looks like they are bending to make the top of the leaves exposed to the light.

Does this mean that I should rig them up so that the light is directly above the plant?


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## tmsculli (Sep 2, 2009)

Oh and Bigpurp, you are seemingly my go-to guy on this forum, I really appreciate the help that you have given me bro.

Stay Smokin'


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## tmsculli (Sep 2, 2009)

I just checked on them again. The last seed that I thought may still be alive I think is no good. There are small leaves coming out of the seed, but they are all shriveled. THey are still a little green though. I am leaving it in another day, if nothing happens, then I will trash it. If I am only left with two, I am going to be making a small container to grow two of them better


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## BlackRoses (Sep 2, 2009)

Keep the seed dude, some seeds just take a little longer to develope..
that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad seed or a bad strain.. I've had seeds that were under developed then turn out to be large yielders.. 
It's true what they say.. what doesn't kill a seed, only makes it stronger 
sometimes you need to give it a helping hand too.. make it slightly wet, then press it gently but not to break it (sounds dirty I know)... this will weaken it a bit, thus making it easier for the leaves to breakout..

Peace and good luck bro,


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## tmsculli (Sep 2, 2009)

Yea I just downsized everything. I am pretty sure 3 are no good, but I may put them into a separate thing and mess with them and see what happens. I now have 2 plants in the top of a 5 gallon bucket. It makes everything easier. I have more room, easier to work with, more effective and focused lighting too


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## tmsculli (Sep 2, 2009)

They are shriveled my man, brown skinny frail tap root only about 1/4" long. Done son =/

Gotta make it count with these two


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## purpdaddy (Sep 3, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Here are today's pictures:
> 
> Sprout 1
> 
> ...


Yes or move them around more to get even light distribution to all plants.Sprouts lookin A1 bro.


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## tmsculli (Sep 3, 2009)

Okay, so I have some huge issues that I need very quick help with.



1) My temp is too high. I am chilling around 80-84*F a lot and I can't get it down. I have fans and vents and open doors and it wont go down. I know a lot of that is because the lights are close, but people told me to put them that close. I backed them up and hopefully that helps, but I am hoping the plants wont stretch.

2) Confused with watering. My plants are not yet getting watered from the reservoir and bubbles below. I am having a hard time telling when to water them. I know a huge noob thing is over watering, so I am trying to avoid that.

3) They look terrible. I got home and the left ones leaves are pointed directly up and it is leaning, and the other is almost completely bent over. 


I moved back the lights, put on another fan, opened my door and watered them. Anything else I should do. Pics will be up in a minute

Thanks guys


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## purpdaddy (Sep 3, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Okay, so I have some huge issues that I need very quick help with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1-Raising the light wont lower the temp.The light is still there putting out as much heat as it did before you moved it.My temps runnin 82-83 my last grow it got on the 90s.You ok in that area
2-At this point the RW needs to stay saturated,thats why we use feeder tubes and a sprinkler hub.It waters the plants for you and keeps the RW saturated.
3-You need to lower the light back so they wont stretch your problems are elswhere..Whats the ph and what strength nutes you using and what nutes?Man they were lookin damn good..make sure the light is directly on top of em andif they leanin that much they must be stretchin meanin the light was still too low..please post pics..you prolly just trippin.


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## tmsculli (Sep 3, 2009)

I wanted to do bubbleponics, but I can't afford it. I dropped $700 on my setup and supplies for my first grow and that is soooooo much. I keep trying to find information on watering. People seem so scattered about it. I can't tell if I am over or under watering them. I am using NO nutes as of right now. My ph is good between 5.5 and 6.0 I check it twice a day and only adjust it once a day max.


Here are pics of what is going on


The new setup because I am down from 5 plants to 2

















Vertical Leaves? - Looked it up, looks like heat stress.....











Drooooopyyyyy













I don't want to fail this grow guys, what the heck is going on =[


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## tmsculli (Sep 3, 2009)

Reading around it is looking like this:

The pointy leaves, the droopy stem, the redness of the stem, all of them point to these.


-Too much heat
-Not enough light
-Too much water


How is it possible that I could not have enough light? There are 4 6500k and 2 2700k bulbs under that sheild all very close to the plants. Each plant has 2 6500s directly above it and then 2700s are kinda in the middle.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 3, 2009)

use a toothpick or stick sumthin in there to straghten em up..they lookin pretty good actually!


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## purpdaddy (Sep 3, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Reading around it is looking like this:
> 
> The pointy leaves, the droopy stem, the redness of the stem, all of them point to these.
> 
> ...


 It is none of that man,trust me they just need sumthin to hold em up!Plenty of light for now,You just trippin.The color is in the genetics of the strain.They Ok


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## tmsculli (Sep 3, 2009)

I just took out those 2 2700s cuz it stopped me from getting the 6500s closer. I replaced them with 2 6500s and then i laid 2 2700s along the side. I am going to work, hopefully its all good when I get home.

Thanks purp, I am just nervous haha


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## purpdaddy (Sep 3, 2009)

Do what i said before you go to work or theyll continue to grow in that direction!


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 3, 2009)

You enthusiasm at the start was infectious, as soon as i had finshed reading you grow i went upstairs and checked on my babies.

Anway dont worry about the heat that much and get you self a bottle sprayer and spray the cube every two days.

I wouldn't personnally keep the rock wool saturated, keep it damp and dont worry about giving it a squeeze to check, you know when something is damp and when something is soaked. 

You have easy enough light, i bought up my first lot on 3 18watt 2700k and they are massive now.

Have a look at getting in to LST (low stress trainning) i know your just starting but it is a good thing to get into with cfl's you will get a lot more yeild, but that is for later down the line.

I am in for the long haul with ya.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 3, 2009)

bloatedcraig said:


> You enthusiasm at the start was infectious, as soon as i had finshed reading you grow i went upstairs and checked on my babies.
> 
> Anway dont worry about the heat that much and get you self a bottle sprayer and spray the cube every two days.
> 
> ...


There is no way u have ANYTHING massive with 3-18w 2700k cfls.
Good thing to start with cfls?What OTHER kind of lighting were you using..and its necessary to keep the RW WET so you know the entire RW plug is wet down to the bottom giving the sprout plenty of food to eat,It also needs to be oxygenated(feedertubes delivers highly oxygenated nutes from the res to the plant with air pump and bubble disk/bar)),,even water around it on the hydroton..you really need the hub and feedertubes,,you can get the hub at homedepot to lowes and everything else at petsmart for really cheap


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 3, 2009)

purpdaddy said:


> There is no way u have ANYTHING massive with 3-18w 2700k cfls.
> Good thing to start with cfls?What OTHER kind of lighting were you using..and its necessary to keep the RW WET so you know the entire RW plug is wet down to the bottom giving the sprout plenty of food to eat,It also needs to be oxygenated(feedertubes delivers highly oxygenated nutes from the res to the plant with air pump and bubble disk/bar)),,even water around it on the hydroton..you really need the hub and feedertubes,,you can get the hub at homedepot to lowes and everything else at petsmart for really cheap


went on to a 400 watt hps afterwards i am just trying to explain that he is ok for know.

Probably should have kept the rockwool out of the hydroton for now and just sprayed the rockwool


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## purpdaddy (Sep 3, 2009)

bloatedcraig said:


> went on to a 400 watt hps afterwards i am just trying to explain that he is ok for know.
> 
> Probably should have kept the rockwool out of the hydroton for now and just sprayed the rockwool


 Yea or do that until they roob but u still gotta water em,why not let the feedertubes do that for u.Delivers highly oxygenated nutes to the roots
which will make them root faster which will make em grow faster.
Yea that 400w will do the trick!!Im using a 400w. setup but yea hes cool for now but is gonne need more bulbs or light intensity time to come.


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## tmsculli (Sep 3, 2009)

BloatedCraig, thanks for the pointers. I will have to look into LST and see what that is all about. This time around I just want to run the cycle start to finish, after that I will start messing around with different techniques with my clones afterwards. 

Purp, like I said before, I want to do the feeder tubes, but I really can't afford it right now. I can't find a decent pump around 100-150gph that isn't going to wreck my finances. Things are tight right now because of the $700 I already have into this. 


My issue with watering is this:


My lights dry out my rockwool extremely quickly. If I were to keep them moist at all times, I would definitely be overwatering the sprouts and possibly cause some damage. I am going to keep playing it by ear and seeing what happens I guess. 

Thanks for the kind words and advice, I really appreciate it.


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## tmsculli (Sep 3, 2009)

Well, this surely won't break the bank.


What do you guys think about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/EcoPlus-Submersible-Water-Pump-185gph/dp/B0018WVNXC/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1252025452&sr=8-17


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## purpdaddy (Sep 3, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Well, this surely won't break the bank.
> 
> 
> What do you guys think about this one?
> ...


Hell yea bro all you need is a trickle!


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## tmsculli (Sep 3, 2009)

Done:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0019TKZC4/ref=pd_luc_mri?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

I haven't found anything near the price of that pump in stores so I am going to order it. Earliest it says it can get here is Tuesday, I guess that will have to do.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 3, 2009)

and you can always use it over and over..now u neet tubing and the sprinkler hub.Theres a pic of one SH site.


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## tmsculli (Sep 3, 2009)

Sprinkler hub? What's that? Is that the connection from the pump to the irrigation hub? I have tubing out the ass here haha, hopefully something fits.

Also, can you close the outputs on that hub? I only have 2 plants right now, I feel like 6 is over doin' it haha

But, here is good news!

I decided to take the rockwool out of the hydroton, and I was happy and excited to see a small skinny whit root hanging from the bottom on BOTH of the plants!


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## purpdaddy (Sep 4, 2009)

heres a pic of the DIG-6 irrigation manifold..


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## tmsculli (Sep 4, 2009)

Purp, I linked one in an above post. You had me scared that I needed another thing. i ordered the hub and the pump, they should be here by Tuesday!

Day 7

I just checked on my ladies and things look 1/2 good. The left sprout is thriving. It is large, tall, healthy, green as hell, and is starting to produce its second set of leaves. The other, not so much. The other is short, weak, bent, vertical leaves, and some slight yellowing on the tips of the 2 leaves.

Pics are uploading as usual, will post them in a few minutes.

Hopefully when you see the pics you may be able to help me fix the runt =/

Thanks!


EDIT:

So, this question has been answered. I have found enough sources pointing to this problem that I think I can assume what it is. The runt is overwatered. The rockwool always was the "soggiest" out of all of them. Also, last night I noticed that the main root was dangling about 1/16" below the net pot. That means that within the past few days it was only a bit shorter than that. The hydroton in the netpot is nice and moist at the bottom, so that means that the root was probably watering the plant adequately on its own. Sadly, I didn't know this and kept watering it.

Am I correct in assuming that now that I have a root down out of the net cup that I should no longer top water?


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## purpdaddy (Sep 4, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Purp, I linked one in an above post. You had me scared that I needed another thing. i ordered the hub and the pump, they should be here by Tuesday!
> 
> Day 7
> 
> ...


 Ok now go to petsmart or somewhere where they sell tubing for fish tanks and get that blue or clear tubing..dont need much.Thats it..you gotta AUTO-FEEDER now!


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## tmsculli (Sep 4, 2009)

The healthy lady:

















The drowning lady:




























Funny thing is that this whole time I thought that the vertical leaves was a bad thing. I re-checked my Jorge Cervantes Medical Bible and found that leaves will often position themselves in odd ways to be the most efficient. The small yellow spotting around the edge was the big deal, which was overwatering.

Now that I know what is wrong, hopefully I can fix it, nurse that lady back to health and get these things rollin!


What do you guys think?


Oh! Purp, I was thinking last night, is that pump that I bought going to be too big/intense for a 5 gallon bucket setup? I moved them to the bucket to be more efficient, but if necessary I could always use the tub again adn then just plug the excess holes.


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 4, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Things are tight right now because of the $700 I already have into this.


I know how you fell mate, the start up cost is ridiculous. 

I have put a lot of money in to my setup, the plants get more money than my children hahaha.

Hopefully one day we will reap the rewards.


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## tmsculli (Sep 4, 2009)

Craig, oh man I agree haha. My problem is that I am a DIY guy, with high creativity, too much $$ for my age, impulse buyer, and too lazy to return shit I don't use.


Once I get everythign rolling the stuff that I really can not use I need to return and try and get something back. 


And hey, we will both see the benefits eventually. Not to mention that the start-up costs no longer matter! Huzzah for my current college business education! Not only do they not "matter" in decision making or effecting anything else, but we won't give 2 shits once we have some pretty ol' buds starin' at us =P

One day at a time.


Oh, and I don't know why I can't find this anywhere, but how long is this grow probably going to take? Also, any ideas on what I could expect to yield?


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## newbganjafarma (Sep 4, 2009)

Hey tmsculli wud up? i was reading ur journal from first page to last i noticed u have a really nice setup there that u worked on man looks AWSOME! how old are ur babies rite now? i got about 6 babies of my own for the first time also 5 of them are 28 days old and one is not even a week yet jus sum days... if u wanna cheak it out heres the link bro https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/228952-first-grow-gods-haze-pics.html tell me wa u think or if u got n e suggestions feel free id love to give u an suggestion but it looks like ur doing real good rite now.. o yea and i jus wanted to no iv seen ppl using those brown balls also wtf are those?


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## tmsculli (Sep 4, 2009)

Thanks for the looks brother, I have class in 15 minutes, but I will check your grow when I get back. They just hit 7 days old today and are doing pretty well. Sadly I only had 2 of 5 make it to seedlings, but it is my first time. 

Thanks for the comments on my set-up, I put a whole lot of blood, sweat, tears, and $$$$$$$$$$$ into it haha. I haven't received any feedback on my room actually so I have no idea if it is somewhere like I need to be wiht all of this.

The "brown balls" are called hydroton. They are a growing medium used in hydroponics. They fit together loosely and allow roots to form easily through and around them and they also absorb and hold water very well.

At hydro stores it is kind of expensive, but you can order it off of amazon for dirt cheap.



Thanks again for the comment, peace bro


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## WonderWhatsNext (Sep 4, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Thanks for the looks brother, I have class in 15 minutes, but I will check your grow when I get back. They just hit 7 days old today and are doing pretty well. Sadly I only had 2 of 5 make it to seedlings, but it is my first time.
> 
> Thanks for the comments on my set-up, I put a whole lot of blood, sweat, tears, and $$$$$$$$$$$ into it haha. I haven't received any feedback on my room actually so I have no idea if it is somewhere like I need to be wiht all of this.
> 
> ...


Man your setup is nice, I think your doing a bang up job with those ladies. I'm subscribed to this one and if you have any questions just send me a pm man, looking real nice


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## tmsculli (Sep 4, 2009)

Thanks Wonder, that is really good to hear. I appreciate the offer and will definitely take you up on it if need be. You have any specialties I should be aware of haha


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 4, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Craig, oh man I agree haha. My problem is that I am a DIY guy, with high creativity, too much $$ for my age, impulse buyer, and too lazy to return shit I don't use.
> 
> 
> Once I get everythign rolling the stuff that I really can not use I need to return and try and get something back.
> ...


It takes about 4 week veg then anything from 7 to 11 week flowering and another 2 to 3 week drying and curing, might be ready for christmas.

Thats the killer it takes so pissing long.


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## tmsculli (Sep 4, 2009)

Yay xmas buds!


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## cruzer101 (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey man,

Thanks for dropping by my journal. or should I say journals. You said you read quite a bit.
I just thought I would take you up on your offer and take a peek at your ladies.

I think I can help. 

Well, first I want to say there are a lot of people here who feel the same way but opinions are going to clash so what ever advice you get I would advise you research what you read before taking action.

IMHO you don't need all those lights right now. from seedling to there first set of three point leaves they would do fine under one or two of those CFL's about a foot away. During that time you must get water to the roots. Just water. Seedlings have enough nutrients stored in them to get them to last a couple weeks. I watch them and when they start to go light green I start with about 200 ppm of nutes and add more light. I go with that for a week then 400 to 500 PPM and stop there. 500 would be about half whats recommended from the manufactures.

By running a low nute load all through the grow, keeping your pH around 5.7 in veg and 6.0 in flower you will allow your plants to grow properly by using the available nutrients. Manufactures just want to sell nutrients I believe the amount they recommend is the max you would go under optimal situations. Not your first grow.


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## phreakygoat (Sep 5, 2009)

all very sound advice. 
nutrient labels are misleading to an extreme, my hydro shop owning buddy can attest to that. some nutes, like flora nova, actually give the full breakdown of levels needed for different stages (on the bottle that is), and I still go half strength on that.



cruzer101 said:


> Hey man,
> 
> Thanks for dropping by my journal. or should I say journals. You said you read quite a bit.
> I just thought I would take you up on your offer and take a peek at your ladies.
> ...


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## tmsculli (Sep 5, 2009)

I was always told that in a cfl grow you want to keep your lights about 1" from the foliage. They are not overheating the area, or hurting the plant, so I think that works well. I will keep searching around to see otherwise so thank you for the idea to look up a bit. Also, since this is my first grow I wanted to go kinda by the books, you know? That way, in future grows, if I change something, a single variable, I can compare the outcomes to see whether that worked or not. If i messed around with nutes this early or other things, I could risk messing up my grow by noob things such as overwatering and too much heat PLUS the nutes. Too many variables to take down. That being said, I want to try this for future grows!! I didn't mean to seem like an ass in the above, I'm very stoned, haha. I want to mess around with nutes and such early on later, but for now, nothing until 2nd set of leaves.


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## cruzer101 (Sep 6, 2009)

I understand completely, As a matter of fact, with that way of thinking, I believe you will be successful. You know, I am the same way. 
I need to see it myself. I killed half of my first crop but after that, 100% success.

Good luck bud.​


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## tmsculli (Sep 6, 2009)

Haha, exactly! It is a sad thing to be such a stubborn man haha. 

Well, I just checked on them, and it seems that the one is dead. Now I just looked in the cube and the root is still white, and it is a little hairy, so I figured I would keep it in there as kind of a shits and giggles thing to be honest. The healthy one is amazing. it has a second set of leaves and looks great. I will be posting pictures later, but a "he can't know about it!" person just came over.


Weeeeeee!!


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## SPLIFFtime (Sep 6, 2009)

good luck dude. i am bout to start my first grow any day now. i too went with the dwc. from what i read and "seen" ensure that the bubbles are able to splash the gorw med. good luck dude.


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## tmsculli (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks for stopping by brother. Yea, I did extensive research and believe me my bubbles are crankin'. I have the Tetra Whisper 100 gallon tank air pump dual output connecting back to one tube into a 6 inch diameter bubble disk. It's in a 5 gallon bucket so there is a full layer of giant bubbles.

Good look to you too


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## tmsculli (Sep 7, 2009)

Day 10

I am officially down to one lady. I am uploading pictures now, but I have a question. The leaves are drooping a bit which I believe is part of overwatering. This is obviously because the root system is getting larger and is now hanging into the water. I need to lower the water so that it is about 1.5-2" from the bottom of the root, right?


pics will be up shortly


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## tmsculli (Sep 7, 2009)

Miss Daisy:























What do you guys think? I know I am being super paranoid about all of it. In my head I see droopy leaves and yellowing leaves. If you say they are fine, I trust you guys, so am I okay?


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## tmsculli (Sep 7, 2009)

So, I just checked on her again and I saw a small brown tip to the first set of leaves, well only on one of the leaves. If my memory isn'y lying, which it def could be, doesn't this mean either light burn, or N deficiency? If that is the case, maybe it is time to start her on some nutes?

Here are some close up shots.


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 7, 2009)

There is no way on gods green earth that little plant needs nutes man. Maybe some sort of root stimulant, try Rhizotonic or SUPERTHRIVE anything with vit B init.


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 7, 2009)

Whatever happens if this goes tits up (touch wood it wont) dont give up, try coco its a piece of piss. My first grow check it out.

DWC or bubbleponics has got to be one of the hardest ways to grow, after airoponics that is. 

You have the added problem with having to deal with the water temp, as if you didn't have enough to worry about.

Got to show case the girls when ever you can right hahahah.


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## tmsculli (Sep 7, 2009)




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## tmsculli (Sep 7, 2009)

Dang man those look great. Do you mean coco the strain or coco the medium? haha


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 7, 2009)

coco the medium buddy. All i have done is soak the rockwool cubes, put the seeds in. They grew with PH adjusted water for two week. Put them in coco with water quarter nutes (coc a+b) and a bit of superthrive, did the same every two days till they where ready to 12/12 then use half strength nutes and cut the superthrive out (superthrive cauces furry buds apparently) till now (4 weeks since 12/12). Now i am using ripen and molassess.

Easy stuff man. SO FAR.


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## tmsculli (Sep 7, 2009)

Haha, simple? That somehow sounds complicated to me, but probabbly a great idea. I dunno, I started messing around with some shitty seeds I found in my weed that was pretty fresh and started to germ those. I am going to try out some new shit and see what happens as I take care of Little Miss Snow White.


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## tmsculli (Sep 7, 2009)

No one has any help with the browning of the leaf tips? I am paranoid and need to be reassured.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 8, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> No one has any help with the browning of the leaf tips? I am paranoid and need to be reassured.


 The plants are fine,the round leaves are supposed to get yellow and die off.They doin just fine.Unless you see sumthin i dont


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## tmsculli (Sep 8, 2009)

Purp, it is not those that I am worried about. My large, real set of leaves is browning. It started off two days ago small on one leaf and now it is on both large leaves and more of it. I will post pics shortly, but you can look at the ones above to see what is going on.

What is this?!?! =/


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## tmsculli (Sep 8, 2009)

For size comparisson
















root porn






















bottom left is indoor


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## purpdaddy (Sep 8, 2009)

whats the ph ant what nutes you using and what strength..you should be giving them the lightest dose


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## purpdaddy (Sep 8, 2009)

they feel like plastic?


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## tmsculli (Sep 8, 2009)

Purp, she is not on any nutes at all. ph is around 6


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## cruzer101 (Sep 8, 2009)

bottom left is indoor


Is the bottom right humidity?
JK

Lookin good man.


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## tmsculli (Sep 8, 2009)

Hahhaa, damnit Cruzer, I was hoping no one was going to call me out on that. I forgot how clear that shot was so when i linked it I obviously couldn't see it. I decided to add the caption anyway =P

The browning is getting a little worse still guys..


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## purpdaddy (Sep 8, 2009)

Thats it..you got all kionds of defficiencies starting..start them on the lightest dose..1/4 of full strength..thats your prob!Man u should start feeding when the first two set of full leaves develope..


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## purpdaddy (Sep 8, 2009)

Why you not feeding them??They hungry!


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## tmsculli (Sep 8, 2009)

I have askled about nutes on here plenty of times and everyone told me that I was no where near ready for them, but I thought taht I was. I knew that yellowiung and browning was N defficiency but I was told no nutes yet. 

It's only the one plant now purp, so the 1/4 dose should still be word?


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## tmsculli (Sep 8, 2009)

So I have about 4.2 gallons of water in there, multiplied by the 3.## something to get to liters, gave me 16.## Liters. Dosage was 1ML/L so that would be 16ML, so I put in 4mL.


Officially nuted.


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## tmsculli (Sep 8, 2009)

Oh, and purp, my drip hub came today, you guys never told me how god damn small that thing is bro! haha

pump should be here tomorrow!


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## purpdaddy (Sep 9, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Oh, and purp, my drip hub came today, you guys never told me how god damn small that thing is bro! haha
> 
> pump should be here tomorrow!


The smaller the better man man you dont want roots entangling a BIg object..and yea 1/4 dose..youll be straight after they shake back.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 9, 2009)

The BubbleHead Gang 

Stealth Hydro Bubbleponics Systems 

Go to these two threads for ACCURATE info as i see someone been leading you the wrong way


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## tmsculli (Sep 9, 2009)

I have read both of those through and through my friend, I just like to be reassured, and no one seemed to help. Oh well.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 9, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> I have read both of those through and through my friend, I just like to be reassured, and no one seemed to help. Oh well.


Noone seemed to help?am i reading this correctly?


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## tmsculli (Sep 9, 2009)

Not with the nute situation, no. 


BUT that is in the past man! So many people HAVE helped me, and that is all that matters brother man. 


my pump and drip hub are here and assembled, so hello bubbleponics come tomorrow morning.

Also, those seeds I was messing around with are germinating really nicely. Tomorrow I will be going away from the 5 gallon personal bucket for my last Snow White, and setting up the tub again. I am going to be running the 21 gallon tote, the 100gallon air pump, a 60 gallon air pump, and a shit ton of cfls.

It's kinda like starting all over, but my one snow white lady is looking damnnn good. 

I'll post some pictures shortly


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## purpdaddy (Sep 9, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Not with the nute situation, no.
> 
> 
> BUT that is in the past man! So many people HAVE helped me, and that is all that matters brother man.
> ...


 Well..i never saw your post or you never pmd the prob to me..what is it i may can help


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## newbganjafarma (Sep 9, 2009)

Hey wuts up bro .. plants looking real good and healthy especially those roots too thats so kool that u can see ur roots the way u did it.. pretty interesting i like your setup.. keep up the good work man! I also did a update on mine got sum new pics also take a look if u'd like https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/228952-first-grow-gods-haze-pics.html


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## tmsculli (Sep 10, 2009)

Big Purp, you are my go to guy sir. I didn't think that there was a problem, so I didn't ask. Please don't take that above post personally, I really did not mean for it to be presented that way. (I have had some serious shit going on in the real world). 

Farmer, thanks for checking up on me brother, I actually was looking at your stuff the other day, looks great.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 10, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Not with the nute situation, no.


 No man by far am i taking this in the wrong way im cool calm and collected,i just thought you posted a question about your nutes and didnt get a reply or final answer to a problem you were having that i could help


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## tmsculli (Sep 10, 2009)

Well, I have a VERY serious question right now, so help is appreciated!!

I just got my pump and hub set up for my bubbleponics. I have everything rigged up great (pics are uploading now)

THe only issue is this. The hub said 2gph drip. That sounds fine I guess, but once in the netpot with the plant, I am afraid that it is going to drown it. I don't think I can adjust anything on it. there is currently only the one port open and only going to one plant.


Is it supposed to water this much? It makes it so that a steady stream is coming fgrom the bottom of my net pot.


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## tmsculli (Sep 10, 2009)

Here is the pump working with no hose on it


















i was high...






Here are some Day 13 pics from yesterday






















The rest of the pictures are uploading now, I will post the pump situation pics once they finish!


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## tmsculli (Sep 10, 2009)

Day 14 



























Day 14 Root Porn








My Bubble action







Water pump line














THIS IS WHAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT. Look how thick the constant stream is....


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 10, 2009)

Should be fine man, it doesn't really matter all thah much as you are pumping oxygenated water onto the roots so your not going to downed them.


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## tmsculli (Sep 10, 2009)

Oh really is that how it works? Excellent! Now I am excited!

So, I was germing some of those shitty seeds, and they almost ALL popped. So now I had to make some changes. Since the little seedlings can't start off in the same system as my lady, because she has nutes in her, the Lady I have now, the snow white, is in her bucket with her ridiculous air pump and her drip system. I put her in the box I made with a newly designed lighting fixture. The reflection of the box is better than the walls, but I don't have a hood for it yet, so I have to make one up for it.

I am now trying to figure out how to permanently plug those damn drain holes that I drilled still. I don't even need them to drain, I just wnat them to not leak. I have tried 10 different times and no success.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 10, 2009)

bloatedcraig said:


> Should be fine man, it doesn't really matter all thah much as you are pumping oxygenated water onto the roots so your not going to downed them.


Thats exactly what i was going to say..as long as the wayer stays well oxygenated.


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## tmsculli (Sep 10, 2009)

Nice, well that makes me feel a hell of a lot better =]

I am building another tub now for the middie babies and later for clones etc.


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## tmsculli (Sep 11, 2009)

Day 15

Everything looks really really good today. I just got back from my 8am class and checked on lil miss Snow White and all is well. She is happy as can be, little shaking in the fan breeze waving at me. Root growth is absurd, and I am already seeing the leaf growth in very noticable portions. Bubbleponics really does boost this process incredibly. This is true to the point that I am going to buy another pump and hub to use with my other babies in the tote rather than just spoil Snow White.


I was thinking that the box I made was going to go to waste, but after moving it in there I am really really happy with the results. The box is lined in mylar, and I built another reflective hood. It retains heat very well and keeps everything concise and organized.

Remember when I kept freaking out about my intake and exhaust in the beginning? Well, now I have learned that I should not underestimate my calculations and abilities. I actually had to turn off the 8" fan on the ceiling to keep the temps where they should be. The little 4" 75cfm fan that is on top of the box is cranking, quiet, and makes me very happy that it is working so well. Hopefully I can keep this up =]


Now, it's time for the bat signal...


BIG PURPPPPP
BLOATED CRAIGGGGGG

You guys have both been my guidance counselors through this, along with a few others, but you two are the ones that are here every day checking on me. I really appreciate it and I have a question that is very very important.


Purp, I took your advice and on Day 13, I did the 1/4 nute solution. Since then, the browning on the leaves has not gotten worse, and I don't think that I have seen too much else developing. That being said, how do I know when to give more nutes? I could obviously wait until I see another problem, and then fix it, but I would rather just be prepared and have things set up in advance for smooth sailing. Is there a time limit that the nutes stay in the solution, or does that change per plant and system? I know that with the bubbleponics set up now, that nutrient solution and water are being pumped into the plant much faster than before.

So my question for you guys is this:

What is the deal with nutes? Out of all the research I have done, they seem to confuse me the most out of everything else that there is with growing. There are no current problems, but I know that I will get some if I don't get the answers I am looking for soon to figure out how the nute situation works. Do I need to get a ppm meter? Is that the best/trusted way to keep track of concentration of the nutes over time?

Thanks a lot guys!


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## purpdaddy (Sep 11, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Day 15
> 
> Everything looks really really good today. I just got back from my 8am class and checked on lil miss Snow White and all is well. She is happy as can be, little shaking in the fan breeze waving at me. Root growth is absurd, and I am already seeing the leaf growth in very noticable portions. Bubbleponics really does boost this process incredibly. This is true to the point that I am going to buy another pump and hub to use with my other babies in the tote rather than just spoil Snow White.
> 
> ...


No new growth? When the water gets too low in the res,,then you change it or add more water with nutes


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## tmsculli (Sep 11, 2009)

There is new growth, but I don't know how much growth I should be seeing, let me upload the pics and you can compare to yesterdays and advise accordingly?


I just ordered my ppm meter and ph meter too.


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 11, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Day 15
> 
> Everything looks really really good today. I just got back from my 8am class and checked on lil miss Snow White and all is well. She is happy as can be, little shaking in the fan breeze waving at me. Root growth is absurd, and I am already seeing the leaf growth in very noticable portions. Bubbleponics really does boost this process incredibly. This is true to the point that I am going to buy another pump and hub to use with my other babies in the tote rather than just spoil Snow White.
> 
> ...


When you are doing a activie hydro you should be working with ppm a lot closer than if you was growing in soil.

Also i think you are suppoesed to add fresh water and nutes ever two weeks because the plants use up more of some nutes than they do of others and after two week the solution becaomes unbalanced.

Start feeding the little buggers after two weeks with quarter strength nutes (i would have said for bubbleing). Then 2 weeks later half, then hit the flowering switch then three quarters for two week then hammer the arse out of them with full for the remaineder of the flowering period.

That is the easiest way to do it if you dont want to messy around with ppm or EC. PPm i think should be 400, 800, 1200, 1600 to 1800, but dont take my word for it, check the FAQ at the top or ask ROSEMAN he will know.


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## tmsculli (Sep 11, 2009)

Bloated, sounds good man. I just ordered my meter so hopefully I will get that soon. I am kind of afraid of the whole water/nute change deal haha.


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## tmsculli (Sep 11, 2009)

Here is how she stands as of 20 minutes ago.


If you scroll back and compare to the older pics, am I looking okay? I am hoping I am not stunting her growth because of lack of nutrients.

Also, how high should I try to keep the water at this point, with a full root system adn all?


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## purpdaddy (Sep 11, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Bloated, sounds good man. I just ordered my meter so hopefully I will get that soon. I am kind of afraid of the whole water/nute change deal haha.


 Its not that hard,,i mix up enouigh nutes for 7 days,,in 7 days i drain and replenish with new nutes and water..that simple


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 11, 2009)

this is not my info it is something i have on the conputer (original author Shabang)

It's simple to find out if you are using too much food or not enough by watching the nutrient concentration levels in your tanks day to day. Don't be concerned with the exact reading, rather watch how it rises and falls from each day to the next. The differences between when you put the solution into the tank and the readings you get several hours later or the next day are what tell you if your plant is eating, drinking or happy. 

Start with 1.00 EC (or a SAFE nutrient strength). Next day, if it reads 1.4, it means your plants have been using water and your nutrient solution is becoming more concentrated. This means the concentration of nutrients is too high, so you dilute. 

If the meter reads lower than the previous day, 0.7 say, it tells you that the plants are eating nutrients faster than they are drinking water, so you should increase your nutrient strength. If it remains the same, your feeding schedule is on target for now. The nutrient/water intake fluctuates with the growth of the plant, so you must continually monitor it day to day. 

Your plants will tell you the optimum nutrient levels. When they are receiving optimum food and water, the readings remain constant. The more you do it, the easier it gets. The reason no one can tell you what PPM/EC levels to use is because every garden is different and every plant has different requirements due to their particular environment. That's why you have a ball park starting figure, but after that your plants will tell you almost exactly what they require.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 11, 2009)

yea man you can keep track of how much they eatin with the ec/ppm meter...But i dont worry about that until flower..That is a good way though..


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## tmsculli (Sep 11, 2009)

I just want to make sure that I am still on the right path. I guess on sunday I will do a swap of water and new nutes and run the weeky deal like you said. 

Once I get my meter I am going to be following what you said craig, that explained it pretty well. Thanks again guys.


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## tmsculli (Sep 12, 2009)

Day 16

Just checked on her and everything looks good. My ph, temps, humidity, air flow, and water level look great. No additional browning or yellowing of the leaves, and there is some decent growth showing. Roots look good as well.

The little seeds that I started on two different days are starting to sprout! It is Day 3 for the two that have sprouted and I am really looking forward to having some fun with them because I didn't pay so much money for them.

Pictures!

The New Guys

















Snow White










































Root Porn










So, I think that everything is looking good. Anyone have any other thoughts on this? Questions, comments and concerns are all welcome!!


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 13, 2009)

looking well buddy, once the roots reach the water why dont you turn off the feeder pipes as they no use anymore.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 13, 2009)

bloatedcraig said:


> looking well buddy, once the roots reach the water why dont you turn off the feeder pipes as they no use anymore.


 Not just that but the feedertubes keeps the RW too wet and can cause stem rot.RW holds alotta water and oxygen.


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## tmsculli (Sep 13, 2009)

Oh, the roots are definitely already in the water. I didn't know that you stopped using it after a while. I thought that you just kept it on all the time? Damnit, that makes me upset that I bought another pump and hub then. 


So I should take out my pump and move it over to my sprouts then eh?


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 13, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Oh, the roots are definitely already in the water. I didn't know that you stopped using it after a while. I thought that you just kept it on all the time? Damnit, that makes me upset that I bought another pump and hub then.
> 
> 
> So I should take out my pump and move it over to my sprouts then eh?


Someone else would probably tell you other wise, but the hub isn't really needed anymore is it.

It was only used to deliver water to the roots when they couldn't reach.


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## tmsculli (Sep 13, 2009)

So in my search for 6500k online I have found a shit load of difference in wattage and pricing. Do I really need to get multiple 105W bulbs that are almost 40$ a piece? I am thinking about the 30-65w guys taht are cheaper, It would be cheaper for me to just have multiple of them I think.


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## tmsculli (Sep 13, 2009)

Well after that little shopping stint, I now have 6 of THESE GUYS headed my way.


I think this was a good buy, could turn up productivity and yield a lot. 65W real and 300Equivalent. I am taking out all the other ones that are useless spectrums. I will be running 3 6500k and 1 2700k for my Snow White and then the other 3 6500k and some other hodge podge of lights for the little guys.


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## tmsculli (Sep 14, 2009)

Day 18

Last night I had a little bit of a scare. I saw an ant in my grow area, so i quickly looked up what to do. I found that Chili Powder is evidently a great deterring factor for ants. I sprinkled that all around my plant and I havent seen him since.

Also, I think that my chain of deficiencies is still continuing. I did a full dump and refill with new 1/4 strength nutes yesterday, but then found that I was doing something wrong. UPon waking up this morning I found that my plant still had slight yellowing and some other marks. These are just various deficiencies, so I needed more nutes. I checked the bottle again and changed from the clones/seedlings dosage to the vegetative stage dosage. I am still running 1/4 strength though. Also, I no have the Grow and Micro Nutrients in my reservoir. I am getting pretty far into this grow and I thought that it was about time to keep moving that forward.

3 of those seeds I was messing with became seedlings and survived, so that is cool. I need to get another 5 gallon bucket so they can grow up in that instead of the big ass 18 gallon tote that is in there now. 

Pictures well be up shortly.


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## tmsculli (Sep 14, 2009)

Here she is


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## tmsculli (Sep 14, 2009)

Am I behind the 8-ball guys? I keep looking at other journals, and their 2 week girls are 3 times the size of my 18 day old lady =/


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 14, 2009)

Dont ask me buddy, i thought i was behind the 8 ball, finger on the button, bang on the money. I have a big plant and it has 6 colas and today i checked and everyone of the colas has bud rot to a extreme, lost some right money.

I will check in on you later, it is a dark dark day.

Dont worry man you are looking good. Think about getting some SUPERTHRIVE


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## tmsculli (Sep 14, 2009)

Craig, I am really sorry to hear that brother. Don't get down on yourself. It's a learning process brother. You have taught me plenty, so use your own advice and a little bit of some others on where you messed up and start p another round. Sunk Costs don't matter my man, you didn't lose anything, you just gained experience.


Now, I just got home to find that my extra net pots (yipeee, sigh.) and my TDS meter have arrived. I read up on the meter and took a few readings hoping you guys could help me analyzing them a bit. 


I try to keep my systems with a ph of ~6. I am waiting on my ph gauge to come, but as of now, I am using the colored bars and it has stopped me from shooting for perfect numbers and riding the "rollercoaster" as Roseman would say. 

I took the ppm of my 6ph res for my little ladies that has no nutes in it and I got a reading of 199ppm.
I then took the ph of my Snow White's rez, and found that her ph was shattered. So, I fixed it and brought it back to 6, and let it sit for a while. Then I went back and got a reading frm the meter and it said that my ppm was 249.

Now, I am just going to be doing some simple rounding to make this a little easier:

Nute-less grow tank - 200ppm
Nute-ful grow tank - 250ppm

This means that I have 50ppm of nutrients in my solution, right? If the water and the ph adjusting solutions together accounted for 200, then the other 50 must be the nutes, right?


This being said, are these numbers okay? I am running 1/4 strength grow and micro nutes at the moment. I had some deficiencies showing up and the ph fuck up, so hopefully this will settle everythign back out solid so I can take control of it again.

If anyone has any questions, comments, concerns, feel free to let me know.


Oh, and the middie-girls are doing well. 3 of the seeds survived and have made some pretty good looking seedlings. I have them under some little humidity domes and they are basically just to save me some money during the learning experience.


What do you guys think?


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 15, 2009)

dont forgoet in normal water it has already got a ppm because of the stuff the water companies put in the water (clorine, calcium and other shite) so unless you have a water purifier you will always have a starting number. that is why people get osmosis pumps to clean the water so you can put more nutes in.


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## tmsculli (Sep 15, 2009)

Oh yea I know this craig. That is why I said that my tap water + my ph solution = 199ppm. my water + ph solution + nutes = 249ppm.

Right?


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 15, 2009)

bang on, will get you some more info from another thread i am following.


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 15, 2009)

Check this guy's shit out, halfway down there is the values of ppm he is using.

Read the whole thing though interesting stuff.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/116859-harvest-pound-every-three-weeks.html


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## purpdaddy (Sep 15, 2009)

I would be atleast at 400-500 ppm by now.
Man please tell me those arent incandecsents you using for lighting.
Whats the red stuff you sprinkled on em?
See how the veins are RAISED,that means it is trying to release moisture and cant,Too much moisture ar too much heat or a combo!.Whats the temps runnin?


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## purpdaddy (Sep 15, 2009)

You need to push that RW down a lil more in the cups too.


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 15, 2009)

looks like sprinkles of fine coco


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## tmsculli (Sep 15, 2009)

Purp temps stay in the 70s and I am ashamed that you think I am using wrong lighting haha calls all of thmbudddy. You saying the rockwool for my sprouts is too high? I will put another teaspoon of grow and micro today and get it up a by higher


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## Dapps420 (Sep 15, 2009)

Yes sir, I'm fairly new to the community, but I learn fast, if you want, take a look at my girls, they are o only 7 days old, but for starters your Rock Wool should not be poking out like that, Bury it at least 1-2" underneath your Hydroton. and your lighting does not seem to be up to par as far as I can see. Try investing in an HPS or MH lamp... Afterall the box you built, with the exaust and reflectors is very nice, you might as well do it the right way if your going to do it... The issue is that the lamps will run you a little bit of $$. 

In any case I'm not sure if your situation is salvageable, but perhaps someone with more knowledge can help out. If its 18 days already and its still in that tiny cup, that may be a problem too. The plant will only get as big as you let the roots get. You should have started in JUST Rockwool, then after a few days when you see roots coming out of the bottom, transplant it into a BIGGER medium (weather that be larger RW Insert or Hydroton) but once you transplant and you do it correctly you should see an explosion of vegitative growth, becuase the roots are blowing up. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this situation... No pun intended.


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## MeisterYo (Sep 15, 2009)

Dapps420 said:


> Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this situation... No pun intended.


Right on Dapps.

I would change things about your setup. If you are going to full flower and plan on growing a big plant or big plants, I would not use a 5 gal for all of them. 

I would switch to several smaller 3-4gal square buckets to fit several and lollipop them to fill out the area of the box in colas.

Lollipoping is kind of like growing a big plant but you remove any growth that won't get light and the plants look like dumdums

If you are staying with that bucket I would grow a mom and then SOG the bucket. SOG would be growing single cola plants. so they don't crowd each other

I am not sure how tall you can get and still stay in the box. but get an HPS 250+watt. Or check out the dual tube that has both hps and mh in one reflector. 

If you are for whatever reason trying to avoid an HID lighting system. then you could try to make your own phototron. mount some 12" fluorescents in the corners of the box, brighten it up with minimal heat. Then you could also have different spectrums in opposing corners or duel spectrum in every corner. 

And they can do tap water for a couple weeks before they need nutes. When you start them on liquid nutes designed for hydro, step them up slowly, to avoid nute burn.

There is a less loss in yield from slightly under feeding a plant then there is from burning it with nutes, which it is recommended that you flush a plant out when it gets a bad burn. Most of my plants get burnt tips on their leaves but its not enough to slow them down.

Also rock wool at the bottom and hydroton on top to try to prevent algae growth on the rock wool. I am moving away from rock wool personally to no rooting medium and hydroton only. Rock wool changes your ph, they say it doesn't if you do the whole soaking thing, but I still think it does. How ever if your tap water has a low ph it stands to reason that maybe you want to have ph changing rock wool.

Not sure if any of my post will help, I just felt like typing.


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## Roseman (Sep 15, 2009)

Man, that was a lot of reading.

You can go here and post an invite to the BubbleHeads to come see your grow:
Questions about Bubbleponic Growing Thread
and get more visitors to your thread.

Please also visit here:
Roseman's DIY Bubbleponics-DWC Tutorial

your seeds and mine popped at the same time and we have the same kind of grow and you will learn a lot about pH, CFLs and things like you need some covers on your cups, the cubes are too high and you can put those CFLS two inches near..


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## tmsculli (Sep 15, 2009)

Wow woo wee wow.

Okay, from the top I suppose.

Big Purp, I am almost insulted that would ever think that I was growing with incandescent bulbs. It's all CFL, all of it. Proper spectrums too. Also, I stated above that the fine red powder is chilli powder. I was told that it was a good deterent for ants from plants and I saw an ant near my grow area so I took that precaution.


Why does everyone think that this grow is doomed? I thought it was a little slow, but not completely lost! What is so terrible about this?

Also, I am almost 1k deep in this project, I CAN NOT spend more money. I know taht I could have saved money by buying the HID system etc in the first place, but I didn't expect things to get as serious as they now have. 

I am sticking with CFLS.

Also, the 5 gallon bucket is for a mother and I am going to be doing SOG in the tub from her, that was the plan and still is. Those little sprouts are just to mess around with a learn a bit more. 


Roseman, I have read damn near every thread that you have made on this site and have used you for a reference numerous times. 


What am I doing that is so wrong? I feel liek you are all so shocked and angry at me and I'm not quite sure why. 


I did a lot of research, and put in a lot of effort, and a shit load of money. While the spending may fool you, I am still a noob! This is my first grow. I do appreciate and want EVERYONE'S input, but I would like it to be constructive and not telling me to overhaul, cut my losses, and start again, that is not helpful to me.

That being said 
Mesiter, you have some great ideas up there, but like I said before, I'm not sure why what I am doing is so wrong? 


I'm not sure what I am expecting from everyone, but I for the first time on this forum, feel kind of uncomfortable and I don't want that to happen seeing as this is my #2 resource for information next to Jorge Cervantes indoor bible.


Any and all future comments and such are still appreciated and I hope to hear more from you all soon.



Now, I am going to take the advice of someone above (I think purp) and crank the ppm in the 5 gallon tank to 500. Also, I am going to clean out some of the hydro, and get the rockwool deeper into the cup on my mother and the little seedlings. 

The plant looks good though guys. It is a little droppy, but I'm assuming it just needs more nutes, I feel like if I get it up to 500ppm I can get it going again, because it looks upset, not dead hah.


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## Roseman (Sep 15, 2009)

Bro, you have a grow to be very proud of, you asked for advice and suggestions, so I offered some.


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## tmsculli (Sep 15, 2009)

Well, I just checked on her to find that I have made the biggest noob mistake that I have ever seen. The air line connection came undone inside the tank and I was running with no air. I have no idea how this happened, or when it happened. The roots have a few small black specs on them, but nothing intense. I am going to do a full change of water and nutes. 

Is there anything else that I should try adn do to save her? I will take pictures once my camera is done charging.


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## tmsculli (Sep 15, 2009)

NO NO NO Roseman I did not mean that to be aimed aggressively at anyone and I apologize if you took it that way. Sorry, kinda cranky. Had early boring classes and my blackberry kept telling me people were commenting my thread, so I checked it and was a little overwhelmed.


I apologize to anyone else who felt like I was being rude or mean.


That aside, can I save my babyyyyy!?! haha


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## tmsculli (Sep 15, 2009)

Ugh, I am so jumbled this morning. I also meant to give this new information.


I took out the rockwool of the seedlings and lowered it down to only one small layer of hydroton at the bottom and then surrounded and covered it and tossed in the feeder tube. 

On the mother, I kept the roots safe, while dumping out almost all of the hydroton, leaving a small bit at the bottom and then surrounded and covered it as you all had said.


I am curious how long this no O2 deal has been going on. It sucks because besides that I think I was doing everything else right =/


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## MeisterYo (Sep 15, 2009)

Don't take suggestions as harsh criticisms. You are doing great. Do worry about every little thing. The reason its called weed, is because technically it is one, or was one at least. They are hard to kill but also hard to get 3grams a watt. That being said.

The air hose thing is more of an issue when you have a large root ball submerged in nutrient solution with no air.

You seem to have a great plan. mom in a bucket and clones SOG in the 5gal. You do have room for a veg for mom and a separate flower for other bucket, right? Or are you gonna build another box?

The only other suggestion really was just trying to suggest cheap solution to more lumens. I made my floro light for $20 bulbs installed. I stand it on end and side light with them. heat is a minimal increase. 

Keep up the good work.


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## Roseman (Sep 15, 2009)

It will revive, I bet ya!


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 15, 2009)

Yo man stop panacking, everything going well, you have people insterested in your thread and i was the same bought the wrong things from the start and got seriously into, you are paying for the knowledge you are gaining.


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## tmsculli (Sep 15, 2009)

Meister I am extremely interested in the lighting situation that you are talking about. Can you link some pics? Or just give a better description, I don't quite get what you are talking about. Also, you said "SOG in the 5gallon bucket" is that a better idea? I was going to be doing my SOG in one of my 18 or 21 gallon totes. The "Mother Box" as I'll call it is light proof, but obviously does not need to be. I can't exactly come up with exactly how I plan on flowering to be honest. I bought a really nice light timer and then lost the manual, so I have no fucking idea how to use it. I will be getting a simple one from the store I guess soon. I have a lot of black-out tarp at my disposal though. Since the mother box is light proof, If I just light proof the door of the closet and the seems with that tarp as kind of a buffer I think that it will be pitch black. I will obviously need to start messing around and setting that up very soon.

Roseman, thanks for the optimism brother. I just cranked out a bunch of important work in the past 20 minutes. I took the mother out, adjusted the rockwool like I stated before, sprayed the roots and netpot with Ph'd water to get the bits of debris and such off. I have no idea what they are from. Then I made a new mixture of water and nutes, sitting at about 300ppm. I am still running 1/4 strength nutes, I know this can't be right. Should I double up to 1/2 strength? Or should I do it up and go for the big dose? I think that keeping the low nutes in there for today may be good to minimize changes and stress that the plant has been going through having no O2 etc. Am I correct in thinking this?

Craig, I know man, I know. It sucks, haha. I actually have pretty serious anxiety that I choose to not be medicated for because I don't want to become a zombie of sorts when it mixes with my adderall etc etc etc 

haha.

I am all about the learning experience man. Also, I love building shit, so I can't imagine staying with CFLs for life, but for this small rental house situation at college, it's perfect for me. I can't wait to move into my own place and take a master closet or a spare bedroom and do some real work, but I have 2 more years to go!


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## tmsculli (Sep 15, 2009)

Shit, I forgot to mention that I also changed up the lighting on the little sprouts. The set-up was terrible to be honest. I now have my daylight bulbs lining right above them with one small 2600k bulb in the back. Hopefully my real 6500k bulbs will be here soon. I feel like vegging this long on those damn 3500k "daylight" bulbs that were sold to me as 6500k could be a huge reason for the slow growth too. I have 6 65W 6500k cfls on the way, then I can get serious =]


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## tmsculli (Sep 16, 2009)

Last night around 12 she was droopy and getting really yellow. I figured it was almost the end, so I jacked up her nutes. She is now at half strength nutes, not sure of the ppm. Also, Roseman, you are correct, seedling growth under bubbleponics is mind-blowing. Those seedlings are HUGE. The first set of leaves are bigger than any of my snow whits were and they already have second leaves. I chucked in some 1/4 strength nutes for them last night too.

Woke up to find her still drooping, but much much less yellow! This is a great sign, hopefully the recovery continues. Also, I am seeing some new growth at the top and the bottom of the plant. Very thick green leaves are starting to sprout up.


and off to class....


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## MeisterYo (Sep 16, 2009)

This is kind of what I had in mind for a cheap phototron.

Basic frame of a box with dual 4' floros on each corner. Like I said you could do both spectrums cool and warm bulbs. 

I made one using just two corners. It works well to support the growth while the tops still get the bulk of the light.


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## tmsculli (Sep 16, 2009)

My old roommate left me some black lights that are a foot long I think. I have two of them. I could just get proper flouro for those right? I definitely like the idea of going greater lengths with the mother because it will pay off more in the end with my clones. 

Thanks for the tip Mister. I have a bunch of shit to do today, hopefully I can get to it soon though.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 16, 2009)

MeisterYo said:


> This is kind of what I had in mind for a cheap phototron.
> 
> Basic frame of a box with dual 4' floros on each corner. Like I said you could do both spectrums cool and warm bulbs.
> 
> I made one using just two corners. It works well to support the growth while the tops still get the bulk of the light.


 Cool lil box bro.Theyll bounce back


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## tmsculli (Sep 16, 2009)

Day 20


Well I just checked on her and I think that the work I did late last night was clutch and is going to pay off. ph is good, ppm is around 465 right now, and everything looks....better? haha

Pictures uploading now!

Oh, and those seedlings are blowing my mind, it is almost foolish to not use bubbleponics for seedlings haha.


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## tmsculli (Sep 16, 2009)

Here she is as of now:





































Root Shot, is this fungus or rot, or what? It has not gotten any worse though..and it doesn't appear too bad. There has still been root growth in the past day


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## newbganjafarma (Sep 16, 2009)

wow man thats a neat system u got there bro... how da hell u do that? so u jus got a buncha balls holding the plant up together and then at the bottem u have a bucket of water thats always full? and the roots jus take water wen ever? or how does it work thats pretty impressive


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## purpdaddy (Sep 16, 2009)

lookin hella better man..id topp em now


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## tmsculli (Sep 16, 2009)

Newb, the system that I am using is called DWC (Deep Water Culture) there is a shit ton of information all over this board about it. The seed is planted in rockwool which is then covered and surrounded by the hydroton (balls) that you see in the picture. So the plant is in he rockwool actually. That all sits in a net pot. While seedlings, I used a system Roseman and Purp informed me of called Bubbleponics. This system not only has an air pump in the reservoir below, but also a water pump that delivers the water through a slow drip irrigation hub directly to the plants roots. This causes extremely quick growth while seedlings and in the future as well. But yea, that is kind of like DWC in a nutshell. The reservoir holds the water and nutrients and you have an air pump to keep the water O2 rich and aggitated.

Purp, I'm glad someone else thinks that we are looking a little better over here =] You really think that it is time to top her? She is sooo tiny. I haven't looked into topping much, but I wasn;t aware that it was something that was done at such a young age of the plant. 

EDIT: Purp, I sware you are thinking this thing is bigger than it is because of my closeup shots, this thing is tiny brother, I'll have to get a measurement for you. If I am in the wrong and I should be topping at this point, let me know and teach me and I will do it up! haha Also, should I be topping this plant if it is going to be my mother?


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## newbganjafarma (Sep 16, 2009)

hey purp daddy wen u topped it... did u cut it in a angle? or jus straight cut?


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## tmsculli (Sep 16, 2009)

She looks good purp, but she is only about 2.5" tall, maybe 3. Although I have realized this...

The dark green foliage that I said I saw growing I thought was just new leaves or branches etc, I think that they may be bud poins actually. It's weird, the plant seems to be going along with the natural processes just fine, it's just so god damned tiny.

The sprouts are incredible, sprouted full new leaves in under 4 hours. All 3 already have roots poking from the net pot with a spidery root hairy mess inside too. These three, for being simple bagseed, and free, I can't believe that I think they will be a better grow than the 50$ seeds I got =/

Oh well, I just want me some ganjaaaaaa


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## MeisterYo (Sep 16, 2009)

The question on whether to top or not is really based on your available grow height. If you want to keep them at 30" tall depending on the strain you would need to top at 12" to 18". 

If you are just momming it out no need to top it yet, I prefer the phototron pruning method(pinching terminal buds). But I would rather not explain it. I found it on RIU so after a good search you may find it.

If you are worried about unhealthy roots, make a quantine bubbler for one plant to flush it and run hydrogen peroxide to clean up the roots. Some people add it to the normal nutes but I don't know the exact effect of H2O2 on the nutrient.
Search H2O2 

She is looking good. IDK what that debris on her is. Looks like spicy ground pepper or something.

Bubble on man.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 16, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> She looks good purp, but she is only about 2.5" tall, maybe 3. Although I have realized this...
> 
> The dark green foliage that I said I saw growing I thought was just new leaves or branches etc, I think that they may be bud poins actually. It's weird, the plant seems to be going along with the natural processes just fine, it's just so god damned tiny.
> 
> ...


Yea but the object of topping is to get extra stalks growing to increase the overall yeild at the end..I topp mine at 2nd-3rd node...keeps em short and bushy.


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## tmsculli (Sep 16, 2009)

Yea I have done a bit of research and think that topping would be a good thing to do, but to be honest I am very nervous about doing it. I almost want to wait a bit linger so that the parts become more separate and distinct making the cutting easier.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 17, 2009)

If you gonna topp,you supposed to do it while they still young and are able to grow out the extra stalks.Its too easy man.just tryin to increase your yeild.I promise itll only help em.


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## Roseman (Sep 17, 2009)

newbganjafarma said:


> wow man thats a neat system u got there bro... how da hell u do that? so u jus got a buncha balls holding the plant up together and then at the bottem u have a bucket of water thats always full? and the roots jus take water wen ever? or how does it work thats pretty impressive


 Roseman's DIY Bubbleponics-DWC Tutorial


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## tmsculli (Sep 17, 2009)

Purp, I trust you and am going to do it right now, haha I just want to find THE BEST tutorial and pictures on exactly what to do. I have seen hundreds, but I want to make sure. 

Roseman, thanks for linking that, I was far too stoned to do that for him hahahha



Day.....21

She looks GREAT! Green green green greennnnnn

It is so relieving. I checked the roots and there was some massive growth over the past 24 hours. More hair growth than total length, but that means that the main taps that had that....stuff...on them, didn't really hurt the rest. I am still only running 1/2 strength nutes. After I get the pictures up, can you guys advise me about whether I should go to full strength or not, or give me a ppm to aim for. 


Alright, so as stated before, today is topping day. I am going to find the smallest, sharpest, cutting utensil in the house and do it up. I will post before and after pics. 

Wish me luck!!


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## Roseman (Sep 17, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Purp, I trust you and am going to do it right now, haha I just want to find THE BEST tutorial and pictures on exactly what to do. I have seen hundreds, but I want to make sure.
> 
> Roseman, thanks for linking that, I was far too stoned to do that for him hahahha
> 
> ...


 
do you need some pics and advice on TOPPING, PRUNING, FIMMING?


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## purpdaddy (Sep 17, 2009)

[youtube]22RXgjb-Uyw[/youtube]


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## tmsculli (Sep 17, 2009)

Roseman, I think I figured it all out, and if I didn't, well it's too late now. I looked at a bunch of good resources and decided to trust myself. Whether I should ever trust myself again in the future will be judged by your reactions to the last few pictures...

So without further waiting....... (wanted to say adue..but have no idea how to form that word)

Day 21 picture fiesta!
















































TOPPING:


Alright, here are pictures of me trying to get a good shot of "before" of what exactly I was trying to cut:












Snip








"We the jury, of RIU, believe that this topping is...."












[Starfox] Mission Complete![/Starfox]


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## purpdaddy (Sep 17, 2009)

Good job bro!

Theyll start to branch out more since the topp.


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## tmsculli (Sep 17, 2009)

On the last picture, that little tiny node next to the stem, that is what is going to start growing right? There is also one on the other side obviously.


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## tmsculli (Sep 17, 2009)

Big Purp! Thank you sir, I am sooooo relieved that I did a good job. What do you think of the recovery process? I think she is starting to look a little fiesty and start shooting up soon.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 17, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> On the last picture, that little tiny node next to the stem, that is what is going to start growing right? There is also one on the other side obviously.


Yes on each side of the stalk!Then later on you can topp those and make more branches!


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## tmsculli (Sep 17, 2009)

Sounds like a plan good sir. 


So, I'm not sure if I told you guys, but I ordered all kinds of shit and it is starting to show up and will all help my grow. 

- REAL 6500k bulbs, 65 real Watts, 6 of them (spiral cfls)
- PH meter
- PPM Meter (received)
- Buffer Solutions (bought and found out I don't need =/)
- Water Pump
- Irrigation Hub

yeaaaaaaaaaaa


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## purpdaddy (Sep 17, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Sounds like a plan good sir.
> 
> 
> So, I'm not sure if I told you guys, but I ordered all kinds of shit and it is starting to show up and will all help my grow.
> ...


Sounds like a winner..Add a couple low low K bulbs to have full spectrum.
60%-40% ratio..Then reverse the order during flower.


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## Roseman (Sep 17, 2009)

*tmsculli* ought to join the BubbleHeads


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## tmsculli (Sep 17, 2009)

I want to! I even have the bubbleheads logo on my photobucket! I tried to put it in my signature, but it said it was too long? Also, I have no idea how to physically join the group as far as clicking "join here" etc.

And Purp, I have 2500k, 2700k, 3000k, and 3500k guys lighting them all now, so with the 6500ks in there I will be able to get a nice covering of the spectrum.


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## Roseman (Sep 17, 2009)

Join up with us.


SpongeBob Squarepants grows hydroponically!
He grows with tiny bubbles, just like you and me! 

















































We ARE Family,
We are *The BubbleHeads!*

If you want to learn from the greats, 
PurpDaddy, Mostly Crazy, Bongtok4u,, db297, JonnyBtreed, Southern Grower, HomeGrown Hairy, ACGrower, MajPat, tSunami13, BlueyBong, Paranoid420, LongHornFan, SmokeNchoke, hubebaba, peterman990, xpac7007, chnk915, and hundreds of other skilled bubbleponic growers, then learn from *THE BUBLEHEADS.*

If you can teach DWC and Bubbleponics, am willing to help the new members here, and want to be part of a family, then join us.


Show your logo, show your pride, and show your intelligence and ability to do what most people can not do and that is grow Hydroponically with Feeder Tubes and a Water Pump!

We're not Dirt Bags!
We are *The* *BubbleHeads*!!!!!






THE BUBLEHEAD GANG!
We are NOT DirtBags!!! We can grow in water!

Right click the BubbleHead Logo, save it to your computer, then upload it to your signature.

By adding this bubblehead Logo to your signature, and claiming membership to the BubbleHeads, you agree to be very helpful to Newbies with DWC and Bubbleponics with patience and caring and make all other BubbleHeads proud to be a member of the gang. If you do not know the answer, go get someone else from the BubbleHead Gang to help. 
Send this invitation to anyone you like and be sure that they know DWC and Bubbleponics and are willing to help newbies.

May the Bubble Force be with us all.
God Bless our Chief BubbleHead, *Mostly Crazy*!


The BubbleHeads are dedicated to helping others learn to grow in water, simple, fast and easy.



Helpful links:

BubbleHead Logo Post # 10672

CFL Tutorial -

What is Bubbleponics Post # 9835

8 Step Recovery Post # 9838

Start Nutes - Drain and Replinish # 10395

10 Days, 12 days, 15 days, 20 days Post # 9

Temps, Humidity Post # 8491

HARVESTING CURING Post # 6623

Roseman and purpdaddys guide for my Bubbleponics setup from Stealth Hydroponic

Roseman's DIY Bubbleponics-DWC Tutorial
BUBBLEHEADS know how to grow!


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## purpdaddy (Sep 17, 2009)

copy and paste this in you signature or use as an avatar!Welcome!


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## danelboones (Sep 17, 2009)

I think I might be able to offer some assistance or ideas if your ok with that.

Why not use the whole room you put your grow box in? The tighter the space, the more issues it seems to me? It works OK but can slow your learning curve because it opens up the potential for more problems IMO. I have used 4x4 and 4x8 tents. Air flow is critical as you can get hot zones and, with the tents have to consider outgassing. 

Why CFL's? 
I started with CFL's also. I had five 36" bars that had six sockets each with a double adapter on each. They work fine but do not give the best results IMO. Because of their shape they don't distribute the light as evenly as a regular Floro allowing you to get an even lower canopy. Lot's of waisted light and by the time you add enough of them, you could have bought a nice HID in cost and electric. No matter if it's a 250W, 400W, or 600W, my plants explode when I move them under a HID. My preference is a 600W and I also use 1000W. The difference between a 400 and a 600 is HUGE and my cloning phase, with floro's takes them past the value of a 400W for me. Adding more 400's lights does not equal the depth penetration of a larger W ballast. I look at 400's like CFL's. Sure, everybody uses them and they work great.

Stick to proven methods. No shortcuts or reinventing what works until you know what your doing so you know the difference.

I have never NOT used RO water. IMO that was your first problem. I soak my RW in 100ppm nutes for my cuttings. Then it's a week before I need to consider watering them again. If your supposed to give your plants 100 - 150 ppm of usable nutes but you've already given them 199ppm of ? iron, chlorine, etc... See what I'm saying? 
Mist them every few days with a couple ML's of grow nutes per quart. 

ALWAYS check and re-check your PH and PPM. Meters are a MUST! Sure, people say... But it's just a guess. Once you have it figured out you won't need them as often, I guess. I keep one in each rez giving me readings 24/7. They are worth the money and my most valued tool. Spare no expense.

Bubblers are tuff. I've done dirt, ebb&flo and various forms of areo and have yet to come close to the growth rate of any listed with a bubbler. It seems to me that the RW has to stay, almost dry in a bubbler even after roots drop. When well rooted a soaked RW cube is no longer an issue. Loose the drip line and use a squirter to water the cube when needed. Just a ML or two will keep you golden, not soaked, just moist. The more bubbles, the more roots. Once the roots start to poke through the rocks, lower your water 2" below net pot and let the bubbles cracking at the top of the water act as a areo. Change the rez once a week if you want. Seems to me I get a boost of growth at each rez change.

Forget about all the extras and stick with a good A&B nutrient. No Superthrive or whodoo voodoo. Just the basics until you see what it takes to grow properly then you can expieriment.

I think your second problem after RO is/was heat from your lamps. In one pic I see you had a tent of lights surrounding your seedlings. Room temp maybe 80 but the radiant heat from those CFL's is the main culprit IMO and drowning them. I would advise to raise the lights up.

CHILI POWDER. Forget about it. Get some ant spray and spray around the outside of the grow box. Terro will wipe out the whole ant community. Get a fly strip now also, just so you'll know what's there. Mice ate 100$ worth of AK-47 seeds of mine in a basement grow.

I wouldn't top that plant yet! It's not even a plant yet. It's struggling and suffering enough as is. Why would you want to stress it out more? 
This is a good point in hand. Use some discretion in following advice. Sure everybody says top at 3 or 4 full leaves, like yours, but yours is NOT healthy and THRIVING. Same as giving 3 week nutes to a three week old plant that is more like a 1 week old plant from the guy giving advice.
I run big plants and I top them when they are ready. Not when I'm ready or by their AGE. On topping young plants you want to wait until they are healthy and growing rapidly. I wait until secondary branching is WELL established so there is not really a lag in growth after taking the tops. I also raise my floros up more than most to get a little stretching. I know the shortest, most nodes per inch is cool, but all that cool is just going to get chopped off as they get bigger. I try to keep the thick stalk while getting a inch or two separation in between the nodes. 

ENVIRONMENT is EVERYTHING! Not nute loads. 

Example. I'm at 3 weeks of 12/12. My plants are 5' tall with several main colas each. HEALTHY and thriving with no burned tips. My nute schedule following AN's "Light feeding schedule" with a 15 gal rez calls for;

3.5 oz A
3.5 oz B
2.17 oz MET
2.17 oz H2
2.17 oz F1
6.53 oz B-52
2.00 oz Carbo
11.0 oz Sensi
.75 oz Piranah
.75 oz Tarantula
6.80 oz BB

I just changed my 15 gal rez with;

3oz ea A&B
6ML BB
1oz Carbo
4ML of all the rest above.
I do not use Sensi, Piranha or Tarantula. 
I will continue to raise the doses until they don't want it and I can tell this by their leaves curling, folding, color, turned down, etc... I can see these things before I get brown tips. I also judge this by their water to nute consumption from reading the PPM meter.

I write that just to show how little of the recommended nute load I am using. My first year of growing I tried to half the nutes recommended and everything was trash. 
Stick with base nutes and add extras as you choose in very small doses and examine results before adding more or others.

I hope I haven't come across as a know it all as I'm still green myself. Not trying to talk down, just read your thread and thought, hey, I did that at first also. Hope you can glean something use full from it.

Don't sweat these mistakes and problems. I look back on my beginning efforts with GREAT fondness. You can only loose your virginity once! When you get it figured out, these trials will mean the world to you. I wish I could do it again. Have fun with it.


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## danelboones (Sep 17, 2009)

<I can see these things before I get brown tips.>


Burned tips are caused from the leaves not being able to cool themselves, not too high of nutes. Your leaves looked water logged to me but your stem wasn't shrunk, has to be the heat from the bulbs. That would also explain the early yellowing. ????


My first post here, I think. (this one #2)

I've enjoyed your thread, thanks.


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## tmsculli (Sep 17, 2009)

Haha, danel, welcome to RIU and I appreciate the input. As stated many times before I am well invested into my current methods and I don't wish to alter them as of now. I like cfls, it limits my ventilation, my fan use, and additional ducting etc. I am in a rental house and the modifications I have made to the property as of now are already going to be a bitch to fix. I made my decisions for all parts of my grow before hand and altered a bit as I went. I feel as though you may not have read my entire thread, because many comments that you made were about things that I realized and changed or fixed. 

I did order meters.
I did use the whole closet.
I did move my lights back.
I did increase air movement.
I did lower my temps.

I don't wish to come off as a dick either, but it's frustrating when people come into my $1,000 adventure and tell me to just toss another 600 at it and everything will be just ducky. I like my current set up and so far it works for me. Hell yea I want to get out of a fucking closet, but I can't currently do that in these conditions.


So thanks again for taking a look at everything, and tossing me some feedback. I'm sure I will read this post multiple times and pull some valid information from it.

Thanks


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

Roseman, do I past the IMG code, or the html code? Either way, it is still saying my sig is too long.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 18, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Roseman, do I past the IMG code, or the html code? Either way, it is still saying my sig is too long.







just highlight that..copy..and paste it in the signature.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 18, 2009)

Why does AN nutrients have so many damn additives?Thats the reason why i dont like em.


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## Roseman (Sep 18, 2009)

THE BUBLEHEAD GANG!
We are NOT DirtBags!!! We can grow in water!

Right click the BubbleHead Logo, save it to your computer, then upload it to your signature.


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

Haha Jesus, you guys probably think I'm retarded. I never realized that there was a spot to UPLOAD the picture directly. I kept uploading it to server sites and then trying to put it in with HTML. Doing to much work, fucking story of my life.


Roseman, have a question for you. I am still shaky on nutes especially with the previous conditions that my lady has been in. As stated before the last nute change put her at half dose of grow and half dose of micro nutes. Would you need a picture to diagnose whether I should add full dose or do you want me to get some ppm values for you. Last I checked the ppm was almost 500, but it has probably diluted by now.


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

So my ph meter came last night, but I don't have my buffer solutions yet, they should come today. I was reading the back of the packaging and it said that I needed to get some HI70300 Storage Solution for 30 minutes to reactivate my electron. I didn't know about that so I just ordered some online now, but do I need it? Regardless, the payment is in, I guess this is just me asking if I can be impatient and use it without the storage solution. I don't plan on using it before the calibration though obviously.


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

So, I just re-read the back of the package, I don't need that solution actually because my tip is not dry (tehe) 
damnit


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## Roseman (Sep 18, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Haha Jesus, you guys probably think I'm retarded. I never realized that there was a spot to UPLOAD the picture directly. I kept uploading it to server sites and then trying to put it in with HTML. Doing to much work, fucking story of my life.
> 
> 
> Roseman, have a question for you. I am still shaky on nutes especially with the previous conditions that my lady has been in. As stated before the last nute change put her at half dose of grow and half dose of micro nutes. Would you need a picture to diagnose whether I should add full dose or do you want me to get some ppm values for you. Last I checked the ppm was almost 500, but it has probably diluted by now.


BubbleHead Brother, what ever I can do for you, just let me know. I think any plnat with three nodes can handle a full dose of nutes, but half a dose is better if that small.
Give us a description again or point me to a thread of yours.


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## Roseman (Sep 18, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> So my ph meter came last night, but I don't have my buffer solutions yet, they should come today. I was reading the back of the packaging and it said that I needed to get some HI70300 Storage Solution for 30 minutes to reactivate my electron. I didn't know about that so I just ordered some online now, but do I need it? Regardless, the payment is in, I guess this is just me asking if I can be impatient and use it without the storage solution. I don't plan on using it before the calibration though obviously.


just dip it in vinagar.


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

Ah! Vinegar! Alright, well I will do that tonight when I get my buffer solution for the time being. 

Here are some pics of her today. I think she is doing well and I may not need to make any changes for a bit.

And Roseman, feels good to be part of a team =P










































That is a standard sized bic too btw.


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

There are a few small brown dots showing up and the pics make it look a little yellowish, maybe a little more nutes would be good....

She is currently at a ph of 6 and ppm is 409. Water level is good and there has been some very expansive root growth. Really fresh, white, hairs are sprouting and stretching out nicely.


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## Roseman (Sep 18, 2009)

They ae vry beautiful babies, very healthy looking.
I'd put some COVERS over the rocks to prevent algae.


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

Ah, good idea brother, I will get on that right now. Sadly, there is only one lady =/ 

I know it sucks. I started with 5 fem seeds, had 3 sprout, and 2 died =/

Learn as I go I guess. Although, the bagseed I am messing around with have been raised on the bubbleponics and they are looking to be some giants, hpefully I can get some females


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

Yay! So my roommate's dad is an electrician and our house desparately needs some electrical help. The outlets in my bathroom that the closet I grow in has only one working outlet. I have extension chord hell.

Well, I was not going to have him do anything for me, but now he has to because I am on the same circuit as the rest of what needs to be fixed. I thought a bit and roommate said his dad is cool, so I am just going to have him help me out. He is going to throw atleast one outlet (hopefully gfi) right outside of the closet so that will be much safer, stealthier and just overall better.


I'm pretty excited.



Now, on a different note, I have been thinking about how to black out the bottom area for flowering. The box blacks out completely, so the mother vegging all the time will not leak any light which is good. The closet gets mad dark, but since there is a passive intake at the bottom of the door (look back at my pictures from early on building if you dont remember) some light will be getting in. I was thinking that I could hang a blackout material from the shelf, with some weight on the bottom of it and have it hang down and black it all out. I would make it so that it rolls up and stores nicely right under the shelf. 

I was looking at the standard black plastic roll taht I have, but I kind of want something with a bit more weight to it. I have a black comforter that leaks 0 light and I could drape that, but I think it will lock in heat and such.

Not sure what other ideas I could do at this point. I could always make a front piece that gets inserted for the dark cycle. The thing is that I won't always be here at switches, hence why we all get timers, so why am I planning this like I can move it as I go? That's stupid. haha


Anyone have any better ideas?


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

So this all took a giant turn for the shitter. The bulbs I got, one came broken, so that is getting replaced, but I am not replacing the one that dropped and shattered everywhere. I can't figure out a design for how to get these lights to hang horizontal, so that the side of the bulb faces the plants and be under a reflector. The reflector was turning and leaning because it was too heavy. this means that I should hold the reflector from all four sides I guess. Regardless, I can't come up with shit, I am incredibly overwhelmed and the shitty set up that I just threw together is hopefully good enough with no reflectors for a day or two


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## purpdaddy (Sep 18, 2009)

Hell yea bro,,another BubbleHead.! Welcome to the crew!


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## tmsculli (Sep 18, 2009)

Any ideas for a light frame bro? it's stressing me out fucking incredibly hard


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## Blue Moonshine1 (Sep 18, 2009)

good grow man!!!!


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## tmsculli (Sep 19, 2009)

Blue, thanks brother, appreciate you taking a look!

Thanks for the hearty welcome purp =P



So I have a question. I don't have reflectors set up as of now. My mother has 2 65W 6500k, 1 30W 2700k and 1 20W 3500k bulb hanging above it with no reflectors. Is that enough light for now until I get a solid reflector design going?


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## purpdaddy (Sep 19, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Any ideas for a light frame bro? it's stressing me out fucking incredibly hard


Connect small pvc pipe together to make a stand or they sell frames for a homemade closet you can use that.All kinds of ways man.


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## purpdaddy (Sep 19, 2009)

​*DH Light Stand  *

Made of 1 1/4&#8221; round aluminum tubing.&#8194; The DH&#8200;Light Stand is 68&#8221; high and is adjustable in height.&#8194;The DH Light Stand comes in two different widths, 53&#8221; and 70&#8221;.&#8194; They are both strong enough to hold most any size reflector. You can hang two lights on the 70&#8221; model.


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## Roseman (Sep 19, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Blue, thanks brother, appreciate you taking a look!
> 
> Thanks for the hearty welcome purp =P
> 
> ...


 
That is ENOUGH but it is not PLENTY enough to finish the grow during Flowering.


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## milowerx96 (Sep 19, 2009)

If you are still haveing leaks try using a hot glue gun. I use it for all my on the fly leak repairs!!!!!


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## tmsculli (Sep 19, 2009)

Yea, I want to make sure that it is adjustable. Sadly, the box is only like 20" wide max, looks like I am going to be building something up. I am just more worried about the adjustable aspect of it


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## tmsculli (Sep 20, 2009)

I can't remember where I found it, but I found a picture where a guy made a reflector out of wood and then lined it with mylar, I think that may have the strength that I am looking for.


Plants are looking great, no pictures today, but soon!


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## tmsculli (Sep 21, 2009)

So, lying in bed I just got an image of the reflectors I am going to make. I am going to take a 2x4 and cut it to the width of my reflectors. I am going to buy 6 of the insulated and wired sockets from Lowes too. I am going to drill holes in the wood spaced out evenly for the socket portions to go into. Then measure out the locations of the holes and cut them through on the reflector. SCrew the reflector to the 2x4 and put the sockets all in the holes from the front. Link the wiring up in the back and output it to one standard power cable. Then I'm going to bend out the reflector to be almost more flat. The new lights are longer and will stick out beyond the reflector. 


I'll try and get this done in the next few days, hopefully it will work out!


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## Roseman (Sep 21, 2009)

I saw a dude put these in a Surge Protector, side by side:









Or try two of these :





in one of these:​






One in each side. There is a socket on the bottom of this that u can not see.​

One of those equals 3 sockets all 90 degrees apart. ​


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## tmsculli (Sep 21, 2009)

Thanks Roseman, I have hundreds of all of those random electronic dealies and connectors all over and have tried a bunch of combinations.


Luckily, I dont need them! I finished my first wellmade reflector that is great for the new larger lights. I am uploading pics now, but it really turned out nicely. Once these pics get up I'll do a quick DIY kind of rundown for it, and then catch you guys up on my ladies!


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## tmsculli (Sep 21, 2009)

Alrighty, Day 25


A bunch of my above posts have been questions and concerns about my new lighting set up, and trying to get a good reflector that works with it. Well, In trying to make one I found that if I was trying to hang the lights with the sides facing down, that I would have to counter the weight to make the reflector balance well as it hangs.

After a few designs here is what I came up with:


I started off just with the standard reflector that you guys have seen in all of my old pictures. Then I cut a 2x4 to the proper length that is the length of the Reflector. Then I took my hole saw and cut 3 holes in the wood and through the sheet metal. I took some nails and nailed them together well.







Then I went ahead and took the "outdoor sockets" that they sell at home depot for 3.88. The ones with the light bulb screw in and then the two wires already attached to it. I got more of those and I bought an 89c extension cable with a decent gauge.

I put those sockets through the holes and it fit like a glove.







Then I took the wiring from the back and spun them all together in some wirenuts























Then I took 2 of my 65W 6500k cfls, and one of my 2700k cfls and set them up.

When I hung the reflector, I still had some terrible leaning and it was not working at all. Then I decided to use the slack from the chain to attach farther forward on the reflector. This created a triangle shape of the chain and gave some upward pull to the sagging front of the reflector.

Now all the lights fit great and the angle on the reflector is really good.







Here is how it is looking from a little farther back.







So far so good, I really like how it looks adn how strong it is. 


Next trick is to make a slightly different one for the other tank, I'll do another run through of that when it goes down.








As for my lady, she is doing quite well. There has been a lot more root growth and expansion that makes me very happy. Also, my topping must have worked because I now have 2 small shutes starting to come up and out from the top of my baby. The color is really good now. I was worried that it was a bit too dark for a while, possibly an N toxicity, but I think everything is good now. She is nice and happy I think.

























Soooo, what do you guys think?!


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## tmsculli (Sep 21, 2009)

Dang guys, no one has anything to say? I thought the reflector was kinda cool =/


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## 7uckytoker (Sep 22, 2009)

I DO I DO I DO I DO!!!! LOL Very Nice Setup you got going on,so i notice this is in the bathroom closet right, well this is the right side of the entry is there not another like 1.5 x.15 " side on the left? Is that going to be used for anything? Very Nice Job and Welcome to the BUbble Heads. I Joined i hope if I'm allowed to or not. We aint no Dirt Bags.... I hate the bloody mess it leaves... Congrats and Im subscribed..


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## tmsculli (Sep 22, 2009)

Lucky, thanks for the kind words brother!

Yea, if you take a look at some of the earlier pages you will see what is going. Actually, on the very first page I have pictures of the area. The area that you just saw in the recent pictures is my MOther Box which was built to fit snuggly into the little side nook of roughly 20"x18"x4'. In the rest of the closet to the right, so the area right in front of the door when you open it is where I am growing 3 bag seed just for fun/learning. That is what is going on as of now. Ultimately, I plan on running SOG. I am going to have one more small bubbleponics set up for my early clones. That way I will have my mother vegging in her box, the young clones in one tub vegging out, and then the bigger clones are going to be grown and flowered in that main area.


Just rolled out of bed so I am not sure how coherent that thought process was. If you take a look at some pictures from before you will see how I ahve the whole thing layed out.


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## Knickers (Sep 22, 2009)

Hey mate, check out my ghetto DWC CFL grow linked in my sig. The reflector has since been lined with smooth foil, and it is a very light weight setup. Subscibed!


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## tmsculli (Sep 22, 2009)

Knickers said:


> Hey mate, check out my ghetto DWC CFL grow linked in my sig. The reflector has since been lined with smooth foil, and it is a very light weight setup. Subscibed!


Looks good man. like I said in your thread, it's funny how I never thought of a design even close to that haha. Different people, different ideas. Thank God we're not all the same haha.


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## fraiserblaze (Sep 22, 2009)

so i just actually took the time to read your entire thread .WOW your doin a hell of a job man. a little ambitious for me perhaps however i admire your courage. your lady is lookin awesome !!!
its cool to see that you have support from a few guys here on RIU nice to see some people are here to help. anyhow best of luck to you ill be keeping an eye on how your doin.
great job man keep up the good work !!!!!!!! peace out man 
Fraiserblaze


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## tmsculli (Sep 22, 2009)

Thanks Frasier, it is always good to hear reassuring words my friend. No matter how well I am doing, I am always going to be making some mistakes, or thinking that I am. Either way, the answers, and the support are both needed and appreciated.

Damn my father and his ambition =/

hahaha


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## tmsculli (Sep 22, 2009)

Well, in the middle of my girls' daily check up one of my brand new bulbs burned out. Sadly I am not having all that great of an experience with these bulbs, but the customer service is extremely good. I had one shipped broken and they replaced it and sent out UPS to pick up the old one. This burned out one they are just sending me the replacement.

Just a little damper on things for now. Luckily the replacement for the broken one should be here Friday so that will hold off for a bit.


back to my girls. 

pics soon


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## tmsculli (Sep 23, 2009)

Today is Day 27 for miss Snow White, but since I didn't do pics yesterday, I will post yesterday's, and then today's.

so these are day 26























Day 27 (Today)

Yesterday I did a full water and nute swap on my mother. I moved her up from 1/2 strength nutes to 3/4 and she has taken to it well. The branches from where I topped are starting to come through nicely as well.



















On an additional note, my bagseed bubble ladies (I hope) are doing amazing. here are some pics of them


Day 11 for these 

#1






#2






#3






#3 is the runt and I think it may be a mutant, haha. The leaves are crooked and appear to almost be torn, but they weren't. Check it out...












The trio

















Delicious Root Porn


















It seems like it is all getting easier now. I think that is because I haven't had to go into flower seeing as it is a mother haha. The little ones are going to be run straight through and flowered. Hopefully they will be mid flower when I can take some cuts and get those working as well. start my SOG flow


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## tmsculli (Sep 23, 2009)

Also, notice that one of the roots was growing down into the feeder tube. I pulled it out. It was impressive, about 6 or 7" inches down into it haha


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## Roseman (Sep 23, 2009)

I have NEVER seen a healthier leaf on any plant, ever.
Those are as healthy looking as can be.
GREAT Grow, great setup and system too!


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## tmsculli (Sep 23, 2009)

Roseman, you almost made me blush over the internet sir. I was just looking at the rankings on the board and saw you so high up, and now you are here telling me this. 


I really really really appreciate the support and compliments brother. Do you remember where it all started?!?!! Page 1! 5 feminized seeds, then down to 3 sprouts, then down to 2 sprouts, then down to 1.

I ended up having to throw all my eggs in one basket and all my money in to the economy, and then go balls deep haha.


Thank you sir.


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## Roseman (Sep 23, 2009)

yea, I worried about you growin in that BOX, but you did your homework, and look now! Wow! From student to teacher in a short time too!
Congratulations.


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## tmsculli (Sep 23, 2009)

Haha, thank you for being MY teacher brother.


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## MeisterYo (Sep 23, 2009)

Very nice. They look happy.


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## tmsculli (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks Meister. I try to keep em happy, hopefully I can keep it up =]


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## Roseman (Sep 24, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Well, in the middle of my girls' daily check up one of my brand new bulbs burned out. Sadly I am not having all that great of an experience with these bulbs, but the customer service is extremely good. I had one shipped broken and they replaced it and sent out UPS to pick up the old one. This burned out one they are just sending me the replacement.
> 
> Just a little damper on things for now. Luckily the replacement for the broken one should be here Friday so that will hold off for a bit.
> 
> ...


I posted a IF YOU BREAK A BULB post in my DIY Tutorial two days ago, and I dropped a light and broke it last night! Fecal Matter Ocurs!


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## tmsculli (Sep 24, 2009)

Fecal Matter Occurs.....clever hahahaha


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 27, 2009)

haven't checked in for a while, but everything looks like it's going really well man.


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## tmsculli (Sep 27, 2009)

Craig! Thanks man, it's good to hear from you again. Yea everything is going really really well to be honest. I am just about to upload a few pictures for the day. The Snow White mother is getting gigantic and is so healthy. The bag seed kids are also doing incredibly well.

The MOther is getting really strong though, I am thinking it may almost be time to get a full 100% understanding of cloning this woman and get some smoke out of her!


Well, pictures coming shortly...


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## tmsculli (Sep 27, 2009)

You should all take a look at the pictures from days 26 and 27...because....the day 30 pictures look like a different plant.. haha


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## tmsculli (Sep 27, 2009)

Alright, so scratch those thoughts of cloning. I picked up my Grow Bible and it says not to do it to any mother under 2 months old. So, I am half way there!

Anywho, Day 30...check her out. She is lookin short and squatty, just how I like em =P



















And here are some shots of the babies, they are on Day 15





























weeeeeeee


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## purpdaddy (Sep 27, 2009)

Lookin real nice there bro..keep it up!


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## tmsculli (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks brother. I have noticed a little bit of spotting on some of the little ones and a very slight bit on the mother. Should I be concerned or assume that everything is okay because the rest of the plant is doing well?


Also, I just made a little rig to get side and bottom lighting for my mother. I am going to keep rotating her daily to get the air flow and the lighting nice and even


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## PotHead3 (Sep 27, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Roseman, you almost made me blush over the internet sir. I was just looking at the rankings on the board and saw you so high up, and now you are here telling me this.
> 
> 
> I really really really appreciate the support and compliments brother. Do you remember where it all started?!?!! Page 1! 5 feminized seeds, then down to 3 sprouts, then down to 2 sprouts, then down to 1.
> ...


yeah man everytime roseman post in my thread. i get exited and read every detail what she gotta say.. then think for myself. Thanks roseman. you been great for me too. but wish i had plants looking as those.


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## tmsculli (Sep 27, 2009)

Pothead, thanks for the kind words brother. Roseman surely is the MAN, and hopefully he will be helping me and many others for plenty of time to come!


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## cruzer101 (Sep 27, 2009)

Hey Tm,

I saw you took a peek at the dream team, Yea nothin like the great outdoors.
Your grow is looking very healthy, I am happy for ya, even if your a stubborn shit like me.

.


BTW I liked your parabolic reflector design. Very efficient. 
I think I will try and do it too with the 400 watt.​


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## tmsculli (Sep 27, 2009)

Cruzer,

Thanks man I am glad you like the design. It is very simple and cheap. The piece at Home Depot is like 8$ and then I just bent it to shape. It could work really well with two 2x4s on each end going width wise making it a perfect arch and then having the bulb in the middle of them in a cool tube or what have you. If you end up doing it link me some pictures, I would really like to take a look at it.


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## cruzer101 (Sep 27, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Cruzer,
> 
> Thanks man I am glad you like the design. It is very simple and cheap. The piece at Home Depot is like 8$ and then I just bent it to shape. It could work really well with two 2x4s on each end going width wise making it a perfect arch and then having the bulb in the middle of them in a cool tube or what have you. If you end up doing it link me some pictures, I would really like to take a look at it.


Yea, I was thinking like wings off the cool tube.
I will let you know.

I dot a depot down the street, what is it aluminum?


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## purpdaddy (Sep 28, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Thanks brother. I have noticed a little bit of spotting on some of the little ones and a very slight bit on the mother. Should I be concerned or assume that everything is okay because the rest of the plant is doing well?
> 
> 
> Also, I just made a little rig to get side and bottom lighting for my mother. I am going to keep rotating her daily to get the air flow and the lighting nice and even


You should be concerned of what is causing the spotting cause it can become a problem that can kill the crop..aslong as the numbers are right.(ph,temp,nute strength,humidity,lighting)you should be straight


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## tmsculli (Sep 28, 2009)

Cruzer, yea, I have one right down the street too. I found it with all of the ducting and metal stuff used for ventilation etc. Right next to the ducting converters to get from 4" to 6" etc. I honestly don't know what it is made out of. I would assume aluminum though


Purp, I am a bit concerned, but it does not seem to have spread anywhere. I am checking ph, temps, lighting, and ppm everyday and nothing seems to be far out of the ordinary. It has been a little hot in there lately because I am in the transition stage of Fall for the house. This means no more AC, but not exactly 75* outside either so it's harder to regulate at this point. Nothing crazy though, the temps are still within a very moderate range at all times. It was foolish to wait this long, but I finally started recording my ppm, ph, and water level of the two tanks every day. Hopefully I can get enough data soon to make some good decisions as far as getting nute dosages perfect etc.





Day 31

Okay kids, I have a fun fact for you. I have read around allll over and obviously, especially with CFLs (since heat doesn't become much of a problem), that the more lights the better. Now, that being said, I found a post by ROSEMAN that I found very very interesting. He said something along the lines of this:

"I don't know how many lights I am going to use later, or even now. I have about 12 spares sitting around. My goal is to teach, and show that you can get a good crop from 3 lights, and you can get a good crop from 10."

This statement got me wondering a little about some stuff. Now, a few pages back, you will see that...I believe it's BloatedCraig, but I could be wrong, suggested lining the corners of my grow box with fluorescents of various spectrums. I liked this idea, but I don't have the money or time to spend getting that all together. I didn't do anything about it for a while, but the other day I looked at the mother and noticed that she is beautiful. The top is growing, the leaves are green and happy, but there is some sag and sadness to the lower levels. Noticing this, I grabbed a single socket that I have wired up to a long extension chord. In this I put one bulb splitter, and in each of those, I inserted another bulb splitter. I then put in the 4 bulbs. I have 2 800 lumen 3500k bulbs, and 2 650 lumen 3000k bulbs. I put one of each kind on each side. Now, obviously 360* lighting would be optimum, but I have been rotating her daily to change air flow, and try to get a strong stem and branches all around because the fan is only on one side. So, with this I built a rig that hangs down behind the bucket and gives excellent top to bottom light coverage covering almost exactly half of the plant. 


Here is the kicker. Anyone who can spare another 30$ for their grow, that doesn't have surrounding lighting, needs to do it. 


I just checked on her and spun her around. In less than 24 hours, the difference in growth and happiness of those lower levels is almost shocking. I happily spun her around a few minutes ago and I am hoping to get the same growth on that side. 


I took pictures of the extra lighted side, and the non extra lighted side to show you guys. Sadly, my camera is currently charging, but as soon as it is done I will upload them.

I really urge all cfl growers to do this because in 1 day I saw very visible, tangible growth and health progression.


Pics soon!


Oh, I am also thinking that my bagseeds are 2 sativas and an indica. The one that I thought was the runt, I am starting to think is just an indica-esque kinda plant. The other two are starting to get long and branchy so I am excited to have both spectrums going.


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## tmsculli (Sep 28, 2009)

Eeek! Sorry about the giant post guys. God forbid I give you that much text to read with no pictures to make you not care about the long reading. I promise they will be up soon!


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## tmsculli (Sep 28, 2009)

So, the pictures don't do the difference much justice. Hopefully it is still a little noticeable for you guys though



Side with no extra lighting:












Extra lighting:













If you look at the farther away shots it is more noticeable. Just even in terms of how wide the stance of it is getting.


Regardless I think she is healthy as a horse. Comments? Questions? Concerns?


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## Bob Smith (Sep 28, 2009)

Congrats man, plants are looking good.

I'm actually doing a concurrent grow to yours with some seeds I germed on 9.18 and am growing in bubblers - I'll be checking into this thread as a way to track my progress.

That being said, I'm not a noob (but took about ten years off), so a couple of ideas/suggestions, if I may:

1) You're never going to find the max appetite/PPM for your plants without experimenting and taking your nutes up until your plants let you know that they're maxed out - I'm vegging under a 400W, so it's slightly different for me, but I hit them with nutes until the first one of the lot tells me that she's "full" (for instance, I germed 15 seeds of three different varieties, and started 12 in a bubbler at 400PPM and the other three in my cloning bubbler at 1000PPM, just to see what they could take - so far, the cloning seeds are beating the pants off of the conservatively fed seeds, FYI).
2) Recording pH and PPM readings every day is a must, especially for your first grow.
3) I know you're strapped for cash, but IMHO the best purchase that you could make is an HID light (I know others have brought this up, just wanted to emphasize that light is of paramount important for quality smoke).

That's about it, I'm trying to put together an abridged journal somewhat like yours - until then, best of luck to you and your ladies.


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## tmsculli (Sep 28, 2009)

Sir Bob, thank you very much for taking a look at my journal. Yea, it has become very apparent to me that a HID is in my future, but not too near. I know it's possible to get good yields under cfls so I want to try it out. I have an arsenal of them, so if anyone can get a good yield out of cfls, I'm hoping it would be me. Depending on how well and organized I get the SOG going I will be able to save my money from work instead of chucking 2/3 of it into bud haha.

Nutes are definitely my weakness in growing. I think it's because it is something that I have to figure out for myself. It's odd that I am having trouble with this, seeing as I usually am not too keen on being told what or how to accomplish something. Regardless, I am not going about it the best way, but I don't think the wrong way either. I have decided that the spots on the little ones are going to spread and that I am burning them a bit. I added a gallon of water to it to try and get the ppms down a bit. I am going to be looking for a bit more perk in them later tonight which I think would be visible if they were being nute-nuked before.

Thanks for taking a look brother and be sure to keep stopping by. Also, when you get it up and running link me your journal so I can check it out.


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 29, 2009)

It's funny looking at the pictures of peoples grow room, there are wires going everywhere. I am a electrician with a bit of OCD (obbsessive compulsive disorder) and all i want do i get the clips and tyraps out and tidy the wires. I swear on my life it is the first thing i look for when someone posts a picture. If the wires aren't right it gets on my tits.

Nice grow man it's coming along well and get those wires sorted out hahahaha.


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## tmsculli (Sep 29, 2009)

Haha, the reason I don't have anything sorted out nicely is because I have been moving everything around so much recently I am still in the process of making another relfector hanger hood dealy for the little tank. My damn drill dies after 2 minutes and cant shove a hole saw through a 2x4, POS. So yea, once I get that sorted out, I have another project that is going to take some adjusting and such. I have to get the bottom area ready for 12/12. I have to come up with a brilliant plan to make it pitch haha. 


THanks for checking in again craig. Did you ever get your grow back together? I know that for a while you were saying that your shit hit the fan.... did it ever splatter around so that you could scoop it up into a bucket, put a ribbon on it and call it pretty?


Anywho, Day 32, the bitch is HUGE. she is growing like a champion. It is becoming more nad more important now for me to keep check on water levels and such. I have a questions actually. If I just put fresh nutes in recently, and the ppm seems to be decent and holding relatively even, can I just add fresh water (ph'ed of course) to the bucket? I don't want to add water and then have it mess all sorts of things up. I was never sure if I was allowed to add water without doing a full swap out and clean out and new nutes etc.


But yea, she is incredibly tall now, I would say grew over 2" last night


I'm lazy and studying for exams, so.....no pics today =P


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## MeisterYo (Sep 29, 2009)

Looking awesome in here.


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## tmsculli (Sep 29, 2009)

Meister! Good to hear from you brother. I am loving it man. I just keep going in there and I am all smiles. I do have a question though guys. The little ones are a little darker and not looking as perky. Also, like I said before, they are experiencing what I have diagnosed as nute burn. I keep trying to get the ppms down and diluting it out to see how that works out. I was also wondering if I was going to have issues with them being as close together as they are? They are all growing well, but maybe they should be growing faster?

Any ideas?


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 30, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Haha, the reason I don't have anything sorted out nicely is because I have been moving everything around so much recently I am still in the process of making another relfector hanger hood dealy for the little tank. My damn drill dies after 2 minutes and cant shove a hole saw through a 2x4, POS. So yea, once I get that sorted out, I have another project that is going to take some adjusting and such. I have to get the bottom area ready for 12/12. I have to come up with a brilliant plan to make it pitch haha.
> 
> 
> THanks for checking in again craig. Did you ever get your grow back together? I know that for a while you were saying that your shit hit the fan.... did it ever splatter around so that you could scoop it up into a bucket, put a ribbon on it and call it pretty?
> ...


Just about pulled it together in the end, got 7 ounce dry off three plants and sold it for 130 a ounce not bad.

Listen though after reading yours and many other DWC grows i think i am swapping from coco to your way, what size container do i need and what size air pump, got a small airpump but dont know if it will do.

Dont think i am going to bother with the feeder tubes and pump i dont thinhk it nessessary.


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## tmsculli (Sep 30, 2009)

bloatedcraig said:


> Just about pulled it together in the end, got 7 ounce dry off three plants and sold it for 130 a ounce not bad.
> 
> Listen though after reading yours and many other DWC grows i think i am swapping from coco to your way, what size container do i need and what size air pump, got a small airpump but dont know if it will do.
> 
> Dont think i am going to bother with the feeder tubes and pump i dont thinhk it nessessary.


Nice, not bad at all for something that you thought was shot to shit. 

Are you talking about a container like for multiple plants, or for a mother? For Mothers obviously 5 gallon buckets are the way to go. As far as for multiple plants, like 4 or 5, 18 gallon is the tank of choice. THey don't seem to sell them near me so I was stuck with 2 21 gallons and a 16 gallon. (I messed up a lot and kept remaking them =P) As far as the air pump goes, I initially used the 60 gallon tank pumps from walmart that everyone recommends. For an 18 gallon tub you should grab two of these and you will be set. Also, from my experience, air stones, the little guys, aren't worth your time in a big tank. Unless you are splitting them and having them all pushing a lot of air under almost each plant, I don't think they work too well. I am very partial to the circle stones to be honest. I have 2 6" circles one running from each pump in my tank currently and it is plenty. 

Now, for my mother, I wanted to go balls deep , so I bought the Whisper 100-150 gallon air pump. I have that guy going into a single 6" air circle and it fucking cranks. I love it, it is also extremely quiet. 


And as far as "bubbleponics" goes, I would honestly say to do it man. I have now started from seed with and without it and the difference is incredible. I'll post some comparison pics over time. It really does boost the speed of growth and seems to promote immaculate health to young seedlings into young plants. 


here are some comparisons:

With NO WATER LINES it took 4 days to get a sprout above ground from germ






With bubbleponics, this was Day 4

















Day 10, no bubbleponics:












Day 10 w/ bubbleponics







And for shits and giggles lets go up as far as I have pictures

Day 16 no bubbleponics:











Day 16 with bubbleponics







I mean, it's a crazy difference for not too much additional investment. I was not a believer either until I did it. it shocked the hell out of me to be honest man.






NOWWW


I have a question!!!


My mother is looking amazing and doing some serious gulping of the liquid.

I have records from 3 days now and the ppms have gone from 535, 587, 508 respectively with 508 being right now, and the water has dropped from 7.5" to 5.5". I just added a gallon of fresh H2O and phd it out, but I am still kinda confused on seeing the trends to notice when I should feed etc.

Can anyone help me out a bit more with that?


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## tmsculli (Sep 30, 2009)

I dunno craig, that last picture for 16 days makes bubbleponics pretty tasty lookin. Believe me, because the proof is right behind me in the closet. hahaha


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## Roseman (Sep 30, 2009)

Sometimes a picture says a thousand words.
I wish I could post that info and pics all over this site.


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## tmsculli (Sep 30, 2009)

haha, doesn't it? I think I may start a quick little thread in the DWC forum just to try and recruit a few more bubble-buddies =P

Just post those comparison pictures and see how many converts we get haha


I am uploading a video of my grow today instead of pics!


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## tmsculli (Sep 30, 2009)

DAy 33

in the video I say the wrong day, its 33 for mamma dukes


enjoy!

***If you click on the picture it will take you to the video on photobucket, you should be able to watch it from there.


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## bloatedcraig (Sep 30, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> I dunno craig, that last picture for 16 days makes bubbleponics pretty tasty lookin. Believe me, because the proof is right behind me in the closet. hahaha


You have convinced me mate i will go buy a pump and some feeder tubes the next vist, that is a shit hot comparison pal.

As for the ppm, if the value is going up and the water is going down then the plant is drinking more water than nutrients, so what is happening is there is less water so your ppm is going up due to the concentration of nutes.

If the water is going down and the ppm is staying around the same value as it was at the beginning then the plant is taking water and nutes at the same ratio.

If the ppm is going down but the water is staying around the same it is feeding more than drinking.

I think that is the idea.

To be honest though if you are changing your nutes every week (i tihnk its a little excessive, but safe) you shouldn't have to worry too much about it.


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## tmsculli (Sep 30, 2009)

Cool, thanks for breaking that down for me brother, really appreciate it. Did you check out miss Goliath in the video? haha the little ones are on day 18 now


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## don doobie (Sep 30, 2009)

Yeah man nice plants keep up the good work


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## Braceman04 (Sep 30, 2009)

Hey guys...been reading the thread and was wondering what nute schedule you're currently using on your setup. I have a similar one with sprouts on day 3. I know to wait til the second or so set of leaves before feeding but with your success I was just wondering. Thanks for an advice.


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## tmsculli (Sep 30, 2009)

Don Doobie, thanks for stopping by brother. Kind words are always appreciated. Keep stopping in to watch them boom!

Braceman, nutes are definitely my weakness, but I will explain what I have done thus far. Since this is my first grow, I waited a bit too long to get nutrients to my mother. I grew her for a while with no nutes at all. If you read back into my journal you will find posts where I talked about my first dosage etc. I started off with just grow nutes at 1/4 strength. I changed the nutes and water once a week. After 2 weeks, when I started to see some substantial foliage growth, I did another new tank. This time I put in 1/4 strength GROW and MICRO nutrients. I am using 3 part Humboldt nutrients by the way, not sure if I noted that above. Week 3 I bumped up to 1/2 strength GROW and MICRO nutrients. You need to realize that under-doing it can be okay, you still have time to "save" the plant, but if you nuke it with nutes, you may never see it standing up again. Go slow and gradual until you get nice and comfy. Week 4 I bumped up to 3/4 strength of both GROW and MICRO nutes and that is where I am currently sitting. The little ones are on the exact same schedule as the mother was and so far so good!

Thanks for taking a look brother! If you have any more questions or comments etc let me know!


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## Shackleford.R (Sep 30, 2009)

pulling up a chair.. i'll have some words here and there. need to make my way through the thread to be caught up!


Shack


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## Knickers (Sep 30, 2009)

Looking good matey!


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## tmsculli (Sep 30, 2009)

Ah, Shack! It's great to see that you will be taking a peak! It's a lot of reading, but the HD pictures make it worth it =P

Can't wait to get some nice macro HD bud shots...nom nom nom


Knickers, thanks for stopping by man! keep checking in I update almost every day!


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## cruzer101 (Sep 30, 2009)

Hey tm,

Grows looking good man, I like the video. Root Porn Yea! 

Anyway I made it to the depot and got materials. I found the sheets just like you said in the ducting area, cool. Problem was my depot didn't have the smaller size, It looks like stainless steel but it will reflect fine I am sure. I found something to use though. A rolled piece of 10" ducting it looks like. I also picked up some aluminum sticks for braces. I will let you know when I get it together.

Thanks again for the idea.


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## tmsculli (Oct 1, 2009)

o0o0 Sounds nice Cruzer, I am really excited to see how your reflector turns out


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## tmsculli (Oct 1, 2009)

bloatedcraig said:


> You have convinced me mate i will go buy a pump and some feeder tubes the next vist, that is a shit hot comparison pal.
> 
> As for the ppm, if the value is going up and the water is going down then the plant is drinking more water than nutrients, so what is happening is there is less water so your ppm is going up due to the concentration of nutes.
> 
> ...



Okay, so I just checked on my ladies and my mother's data is as follows.

From yesterday to today, ppm has dropped from 508 to 382, water level has stayed the same and ph is good. This means that she is feeding more than drinking correct? So does this mean that I need to give her more nutes since she is hungry, or does it mean that what I have going is good?


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## tmsculli (Oct 1, 2009)

I am in the process of making everything light tight and getting it ready for flowering now. The little ones are going to start 12/12 this weekend I think. Also, I haven't really looked intensely into how much more they are going to grow. My vertical space is limited, so I think I may rig up a nice screen to SCROG is out. It will be a top screen with 4 legs, almost like a table, that is connected to the tote and easily moved/removed etc.

No plan as of now. Headed to wally mart though, and we all know that it's like a creative pot heads fun house in there.


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## Roseman (Oct 1, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Okay, so I just checked on my ladies and my mother's data is as follows.
> 
> From yesterday to today, ppm has dropped from 508 to 382, water level has stayed the same and ph is good. This means that she is feeding more than drinking correct? So does this mean that I need to give her more nutes since she is hungry, or does it mean that what I have going is good?


it means you should replace any missing water, do a ppm test again, then repalce the missing nutes to go back to what you have calculated to be a 
full dose of nutes.


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## tmsculli (Oct 1, 2009)

Roseman, I honestly am not sure what I would consider a full dose of nutes to be. Would it be where she was hanging out for a while? I hate that I keep having to ask questions about nutes, but for some reason I just don't get them. I have read chapters and chapters on them in books and it just won't click. =/


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## Budskee420 (Oct 1, 2009)

Very nice set up for a first time. I decided to go soil for my first grow. Could you tell me what kind of light fixtures t hose are? They look EXTREMELY convenient o use since they seem to plug directly into a power strip and hold 2 bulbs. I was looking for something like that earlier today at lowes but all I found were a couple of clamp lamps. So if you could send me a link to what kind o fixtures they are I would very much appreciate it. Keep up the great looking grow man! ^^


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## wonderblunder (Oct 1, 2009)

looking good.


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## Roseman (Oct 1, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Roseman, I honestly am not sure what I would consider a full dose of nutes to be. Would it be where she was hanging out for a while? I hate that I keep having to ask questions about nutes, but for some reason I just don't get them. I have read chapters and chapters on them in books and it just won't click. =/


 
Brother Bublehead, let me help you a little.



If you use a ppm (TDS - EC) meter, you should first read and follow the instructions on your nutrients. 

When I first got started with my most recent grow, I started with 1/4 dose nutes to be safe. I started 1/4 dose (the reccommended amount) AFTER I first saw the first two nodes, not counting the round leaves. A day or two after I saw the second node or 4th leaf, (two sets of two leaves, not counting those first two round leaves), I introduced 1/4 strenght nutes. I increased them to half strenght, or a 2nd dose of 1/4 strenght nutes two days later when I saw the 3rd node. I could safely do this with the Stealth Hydro Nutes. They are not too strong to cause damage at that strenght, especially using CFLS to grow. HID light users can use higher NPK nutes, or stronger strenght nutes. 
A day or two later, I saw a 4th node, and increasing the strenght of the nutes again by adding another 1/4 dose, bringing me to FULL-Strenght nutes. 
That is when I measured my ppm, but by then, the plants were eating the nutes too. My ppm was only 200 then, and 75 to 100 of that was my well water. In no way am I saying that is what your ppm should be too. I am just telling you what mine was. I was trying for a weaker strenght feeding to make sure I did not burn them up and be emabarrassed. In past grows, I did use more nutes, strongers doses, more often.

*After ten days passed, I did a Drain and Replinish. I added back a full dose of nutes and my ppm was 280 that day, telling me my target ppm to stay at the same level during the early VEG or GROW cycle. 
*As I daily added a half of gallon of water, and a 1/12 packet of nutes, my ppm grew to 330, or bounced between 220 and 340 as they ate. (Before the feeding, it was 220, after the feeding it was up to 340) 

By the time I was in my 3rd week, and they were drinking a full gallon of water a day, and I was adding back 1/6 dose of nutes, my ppm was between 360 to 440 daily. But that number is not important to me or you. *What is important is tracking it, writing it down daily, to determine how much more nutes I should add or not add. *

Let me rephrase this.
Do not worry about the exact number, or any number from a chart or from me and my grow. Instead watch, record, and track how it rises or falls from day to day. *The differences between what you have in there on one day, and the readings you get the next day will tell you how much your plants are eating.* Of course, you do this daily, at the same time of day.

And remember, just because a gallon of water is gone, does not mean they also ate 1/6 of the nutes. Maybe you had HIGH HEAT and they were very thirsty but not as hungry. 

*First, determine the ppm of your water sourse. Say it is 100 ppm. Then fill the tank with the proper amount of water and a complete dose of nutes and read the ppm. Say it is 350 for example. If tomorrow a gallon of water is gone, and the ppm says higher than 350, or is still close to 350, then they did not eat and they do not need more nutes, they only need more water. Your reservoir's water and nute solution is more concentrated, telling you to add more water only. 
*
If the ppm went down to say 250 from 350, and a gallon of water is gone, they need a gallon of water, plus enough additonal nutes to bring the ppm back up to 350. And that is the real purpose and use of a ppm meter, to determine that need and how much.

No one can tell you what your ppm should be. It will vary from garden to garden, and vary from different nutrients too. 

If your plants are very happy, and drinking and eating at the same level, then the ppm will remain the same daily. 
If for example, 1/8 of the water is gone, and 1/8 the nutes are gone, then the concentration remains the same and the ppm will remain the same.

I would like to offer a ppm chart as a rule of thumb or ball park target ppm, but each grow or garden is going to be different.

These numbers are based on EC readings, .500 readings, TDS readings converted from EC or the common Hannah Chart:

Seedlings, Early Sprouts 100 to 250 

Early Vegging 300 to 400

Full Vegetation 450 to 700

Early Blooming 750 to 950

Full Mature Blooms 1000 to 1600


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## tmsculli (Oct 1, 2009)

Budskee, thanks for the kind words brother. Actually, they are all homemade fixtures. The ones that are the power strip ones were thrown together from every day things and items easily purchased at any hardware store. The most basic fixture is a power strip w/ a surge protector. You then buy two prong plug to light bulb converters. from there you can get single bulb splitters allowing 2 bulbs per plug. Then you can just wire tie the bulbs to the strip to make sure they don't fall and that is about it. When I upgraded my lights to larger ones there was no more need for so many and it was no longer safe to have them hanging from a surge protector. I took it upon myself to design, build, and wire the fixtures that I currently use. Hope that helps you out brother.


Wonderblunder, thanks for taking a look man, kind words are always appreciated, stay smokin my friend.


Obi Wan, oops, I mean Roseman. I have read that post before, I am pretty sure most of that was from another thread I chased you too. It makes a bit more sense to me now. I think I may just be too stubborn to let myself embrace how it works. I have a TDS meter and have been recording the data now for a few days. Sadly I didn't have meters from the start so I was not recording it the entire time. I am still not to a full dose of nutes on my little ones or my mother. I am kind of afraid to I suppose. I guess next full drain and fill I will go full dose grow and micro on her. Obviously recording my water's ppm first. Then with a loaded dose in her I can take the reading and that is going to be the proper "maximum capacity" of sorts correct? So that is the number that I should be relating my daily numbers to as well as the ones that are directly before it. I think I understand it a bit more. Thanks brother



Now, I am pissed. I hate wally mart. I will never go back again. I dealt with 6 different employees today, I kept giving them chances. I was being so nice, asking simple questions, but received nothing, but blank stares and comments that I would expect from a 6 year old. For example, when asked "Excuse me sir, where are your fans?" He answered "Welcome to Walmart" "Fans, sir?" he answered "This is shirts"

I turned around. I continued to have similar experiences before going to the manager, asking her, not being impressed by her, and then telling them all to go to hell.



that being said, I still don't have my fucking fans. I guess I am sucking up the price and getting them online. I need them now.


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## tmsculli (Oct 1, 2009)

Gotta love ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350258972841&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_1182

Two massey 4" fans headed my way. 15$ a piece isn't horrendous, I'll live.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 1, 2009)

Tmsculli, looking good buddy - as far as your nute questions go, you're correct in your diagnosis of whether the plants are taking in more nutes than water and vice versa; I know I've told you this before, but for a mature mother plant (and it's prolly different for you because you're not under HIDs) I'm running anywhere from 1250 to 1500 PPMs with no problems - different people can get there different ways, and you're obviously choosing the safer way, but you can go WAY up from 500 PPMs (for the mother; seedlings at 500PPM is reasonable).

BTW, I started a journal today if you're interested.


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## cruzer101 (Oct 1, 2009)

Dude, I got those fans at Wallmart for $10


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## tmsculli (Oct 1, 2009)

Cruzer, the less than educated staff at walmart finally informed me that they only had 3 fans total in the store. They are out of season, and no longer exist. Whatever, it really sucks that I have to pay so much for them, but I need them. At least you showed me what I wanted, so I am still happy that I found fans that will work. OH!!!! Cruzer, I just got finished making the main part of my second reflector. This one is even nicer. I think you will be very impressed. One more stop to the depot tomorrow and she will be done. Although, I am tripping chocolate shrooms tomorrow after my finance exam, so I may not work on it hahahaha


Bob, thanks for stopping in again. Yea, I am definitely taking the safe route. I am just too paranoid to lose her haha. I think that now she is healthy as a horse and I can crank up to full nutes. This weekend I will do a full swap on her and get her up to full dose grow and micro nutes. I will also take the little ones up to 3/4 to get them up to around the 500ish level. I am going to take it slow still though. Those little bag seed ones are something to do before I can clone from the mother. I want to start flowering on Monday, so they should be done by around mid December I would think. I can start taking clones from my mother November 2 too. 

On that note, I have another question. I want this to be pretty perpetual. I have heard about the clippings every 2 weeks to get it all going, but does that mean that I need to have separate tanks for each stage? I would think so because these different stages of growth will need different nutrient levels, correct? Do you guys think there is a middle ground? I have no problem with having a tank set up for initial clones, but what about like...the intermediate ones? 

I feel like I am talking in circles, I can't quite get out what I want to say. I think what I want to ask is this:

EXAMPLE: (imaginary)

Today I took 4 cuttings and put them into a system
2 weeks later i take another 4 cuttings, can I put these clones in the same system as the now 2 week old clones, or do they need their own tank? Can I get one system set up for weeks like....2, 4 and 6 adn then have another tank for flowering?


=/


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## tmsculli (Oct 1, 2009)

Oh, Bob, I am very interested, toss up a link brother!


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## Bob Smith (Oct 1, 2009)

Here you go, kid..............and in regards to your question regarding perpetual harvest, yeah, you'll need the different stages in their own tubs for the different nute levels.

Unless, of course, you go with one strength of nutes throughout veg, which wouldn't be ridiculous and is quite feasible.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/250027-bubblelicious-new-york-power-diesel.html


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## cruzer101 (Oct 1, 2009)

Yea, I pretty much run one strength nutes during flower.

Chocolate shroom? Man its been a while since I shroomed.

Starting a new reflector huh? cool. I am still working on this one.
I attached some photos, 1st is the reflectors I am using now, pretty weak.

The pics of my progress. The alimnum sticks will be the support.
I plan on inserting the CFL's through the sides, so far I am at 4.5 pounds in material. 
The yo yo hangers max at 22 lbs.


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## miztaj (Oct 1, 2009)

Man sculli glad to see your grow tuning out nicely.Just finished reading from the begining and the story looks good even with the rough start.Just started my seedlings in a dwc tub yesterday but really thinking about grabbing a pump and hub next week. I'll be watching the rest of the way thru.


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## pwizzle (Oct 2, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Nice, not bad at all for something that you thought was shot to shit.
> 
> Are you talking about a container like for multiple plants, or for a mother? For Mothers obviously 5 gallon buckets are the way to go. As far as for multiple plants, like 4 or 5, 18 gallon is the tank of choice. THey don't seem to sell them near me so I was stuck with 2 21 gallons and a 16 gallon. (I messed up a lot and kept remaking them =P) As far as the air pump goes, I initially used the 60 gallon tank pumps from walmart that everyone recommends. For an 18 gallon tub you should grab two of these and you will be set. Also, from my experience, air stones, the little guys, aren't worth your time in a big tank. Unless you are splitting them and having them all pushing a lot of air under almost each plant, I don't think they work too well. I am very partial to the circle stones to be honest. I have 2 6" circles one running from each pump in my tank currently and it is plenty.
> 
> ...


perfect example i say!!!
bubbleheads all the way.
yes i was on a submarine, but this isn't the case lol
all your base are belong to bubbleponics.


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 2, 2009)

How hard is it to find a decent box to start with, most of them have shit lids that will leak or are see through or have holes in the bottom. I live in the UK and they dont do rubbermaid's over here, apparently the rubbermaid ruffneck is supposed to be the dog's bollocks.


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## purpdaddy (Oct 2, 2009)

what happened to the others?The ones u had before you got the pump and feedertubes?Are they still alive?


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

Bob, I'll take a deep look into that later today, and thanks for the idea about the nutes, I may look into that.


Cruzer, I may be asking you a few more questions about your perpetual cloning cycle when I get to that point, good to know I have someone to ask about. That reflector looks great! Good call on those metal shafts for the support. I actually had the same thought trend and in the second one I am making I have 2x4s on either end nailed into it making it a very wide arch with 90* down turns on the side. The chocolate shrooms have been delayed until saturday, sadly my Finance exam has not. I have that at 2:30 =/

Miztaj, thanks for stopping by man. Yea, I would recommend the pump man, it works, it really does. If you have any questions just let me know man. 


Pwiz, I'm glad you are as excited about it as I am man haha. All your base are belong to us. The Wizard needs food, badly!!!


Craig, I had no idea you were across the pond m8. haha. That is terribly unfortunate about the no rubbermaid. Walmarts here are lined with them floor to ceiling. They are trying to pump out the leftover "off to college" stock that they had. There is another company that makes a very very similar product called "Sterlite" maybe you can see if you have them in the UK. The ruffneck is indeed the cat's pajamas, that is what I am using now. it seals really well and they are like 6$ for an 18gallon one.



Purp, what you talkin bout mang? I started with 5 fem seeds, 3 sprouted, 2 died, left with my 1 mother that is the ballin ass big one. I planted 3 bagseed with the feeder tubes, they are the ones in the other pictures that aren't the mother. I'm not too sure what other ones you are talkjing about. Glad you stopped by though man, I was thinking yesterday that I hadn't heard from you in a while.





FUCK THIS EXAM I AM TERRIFIED

bollocks


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## purpdaddy (Oct 2, 2009)

the ones from page 14 man..I been really bust with work and aint really had no time to get on here but i can say i am very proud of the BUBBLEHEADS.


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

Brother the ones on page 14 are all pictures of the same plant. That is my mother. it is in one 5 gallon bucket, that's it


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 2, 2009)

Alright man found a place in the UK that import rubbermaid's (in the internet amazing) got a ruffneck on it's way. Cost me £15.00 notes like (that about $30.00) but hopefull i only need to buy one. Its 57litre's which i think might be a little large.


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

Good deal craig. 57 Liters is relatively close to perfect, some may say small depending on how many plants you are doing in it. There are 3.79L per US Gallon. 57 / 3.79 = 15.04 US Gallons. Most people use the Rubbermaid Roughneck 18 Gallon ones so you should be fine brother. Good to hear it man, hope everything works out. 

Oh, and you will only need one haha, just don't be an idiot and not think all the steps through first haha.


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

I need help guys, my baby has some leaf not-normalness.

I can't decide if it is a K, or Zn deficiency. It is also very possible that it is light burn. I woke up and lights were too low, she had a growth spurt over night again. Pics are uploading now, hopefully you guys can help me.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 2, 2009)

Without even seeing the pics, if she shot up and got too close to the light, and you think it's light burn, it's prolly light burn.

That being said, bring on the pics.

Oh, and Craig, I was using Rubbermaids (like most others on here seem to do), but have been futzing around with connecting 5 gallon plastic buckets together - much easier to make light proof and much more sturdy, IMHO.


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

Okay, Day 35


She looks healthy. Look













BUTTTT


I found these marks.


















Now, like I said before, my bible shows that it could be a K or Zn deficiency. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't deficiencies usually start from the bottom up? These marks are ONLY on the top high leaves and on one side that was closer to the wrap-around lights. This leads me to believe it's light burn. You guys know how I am, I get paranoid and even if I think I am correct, I need the reassurance, so let me know what's up!


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

Ah, and I forgot, I have been building that second reflector for the main tub. I am almost done. Here is what I have so far.






















The bulb that is in there is one of my 65 actual Watt 6500k cfls. I am going to put two of them in there and then 2 of the 2700k guys most likely.


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

There are your pics Bob.


GO BOB GO! GO BOB GO!


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## Bob Smith (Oct 2, 2009)

#1, those marks aren't enough for even a paranoid soul to worry that much about - you've found them early, which is great.

#2, that's without a doubt light burn - if the burning on the tips was on the whole plant and every leaf, then it could be nute burn, but seeing as the burn marks are concentrated in an area which was near the light, it's clearly light burn.

See my previous post for "if it looks like light burn, and smells like light burn, it's prolly light burn".

Still looking good though, just remember to raise your lights a touch each night before you go to sleep.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 2, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> There are your pics Bob.
> 
> 
> GO BOB GO! GO BOB GO!


Lol, thanks man - one of these days I'll actually stick with my initial plans.

Decided (a couple of hours ago) to switch to individual 5 gallon buckets connected to a reservoir as opposed to doing 18 gallon Rubbermaids.

Kinda stoked on it, actually.


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks Bob. That was exactly what I was looking for haha. I am a well educated person on many subjects, but regardless of the knowledge I have I love to be reassured.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 2, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Thanks Bob. That was exactly what I was looking for haha. I am a well educated person on many subjects, but regardless of the knowledge I have I love to be reassured.


No worries mate; like a lot of things in life, growing weed is simple, but it's not easy.

Keep at it, you're on an awesome course - I wish I would've known about the Internet ten years ago, that woulda been something


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

Oh god I couldn't imagine not having millions of people's opinions, experiences, and pictures at your fingertips and successfully learning how to grow haha.


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

ROSEEEEEMANNNNNNN


I just did something that will hopefully make you proud and hopefully is something that was a great thing for me to do. 

So, I wanted to make sure I had my nute situation correct for my mother so here is what I did.

I found the ppm of my tap water and found that it is = 200ppm

I filled a 5 gallon bucket with 3 gallons of fresh water. There are 3.79L per US Gallon. 3 x 3.79 = 11.37L in my 5 gallon bucket.

Then I looked at my nutes. For full veg stage, it says that I should have 2mL/L of both Grow and Micro nutrients. 

11.37L x 2mL = 22.74 mL of each type of nute necessary would be a full dose. 

30mL = 1 fluid ounce = 2 Tablespoons
15ml = .5 fluid ounces = 1 tablespoon

22.74mL / 30mL = .758 so 22.74mL = 75.8% of a fluid ounce.

~75% = 1.5 Tablespoons

So, I put in 1.5 tablespoons of both my Grow and Micro nutrients into the water and mixed it up. 

I took the ppm and it was 470.

This is not proper ph though, so I adjusted the ph down to 5.9 and then measured again. Now it was 500ppm.

So in optimum conditions for my mother plant there should be 9" of water, 500ppm, and proper ph (obviously)

If I am correct, this means that my nutrients and ph solution are 300ppm. 


Now that I have all of my base information like Roseman told me to do, I can continue keeping track of my water height, ppm, and ph. This way I can track it and keep it all at optimum conditions.


Is this correct?!


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## Roseman (Oct 2, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> ROSEEEEEMANNNNNNN
> 
> 
> I just did something that will hopefully make you proud and hopefully is something that was a great thing for me to do.
> ...


 
Yes, I am proud and man, I am flattered too.

PPM is not an easy thing to explain. I am no rocket scientist, or botanist or horoculturist. I used to have a high IQ but 41 years of daily smoking has taken its toll on me. Honestly, I never tried to explain ppm, it just semed too complicated and these charts people use giving a ppm amount seem so foollish to me, saying have 850 in VEG, and I think how do you know what nutes he is using, or what ppm was already in his water, or how the pH Up or the pH Down or any catalysts or supplements are included in the ppm................

yet everyday here, newbies say, get that ppm up, or get that ppm down........go to 1200 ppm now, make me laugh. 
You did the research, you did the work, you did the calculations, you did the math......I applaud you bro. You calculated how much was target ppm, and now you can know every day, if they are eating a lot, eating a little and how much they are eating without guessing by how much water they drank. You can play with it, and experiment by adding a very small amount, 25 ppm, for example, and when and if you see a little yellow leaf tip curling, back off, remove a gallon and add a gallon of plain water back.. 

The grow I am doing in my tutorial, I am being way over cautious feeding them, so I am not embarrassed. But normally, I push that ppm like I push
the gas pedal on the Interstate Highway, til it is time to hit the brakes. LOL. 

Good luck , I'm still watching your grow.


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## tmsculli (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks brother, I appreciate it. I wish we could have a secret bubbleheads meeting conference somewhere and all meet up and swap our delicious bubble-birthed-bud.


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## Roseman (Oct 2, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Thanks brother, I appreciate it. I wish we could have a secret bubbleheads meeting conference somewhere and all meet up and swap our delicious bubble-birthed-bud.


 
yes, it'd be nice, but some narc would show up and bust us all.


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## cruzer101 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hey man, Cool reflector, I wish I could use wood like that but it is just too heavy. 
I bet it was not easy drilling those holes.

On another note, the PPM thing. My opinion is your tap has some nutrients in it, you just dont know what it is. You can find your water company on the net and they publish whats in the water. At least you have an idea.

Thing is starting with 200ppm and adding nutrients to get to 500ppm you say you are really giving it 300ppm when your not. It is 500ppm. 
Of what? you just dont know. 

Of course you could do what i do and get a few 5 gallon bottles and go fill them up once a week with distilled or R/O. Then you know what you are starting with.

My opinion, That dont look like a light burn. leaf has to be pretty close for that to happen.​


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## Knickers (Oct 2, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Ah, and I forgot, I have been building that second reflector for the main tub. I am almost done. Here is what I have so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I plan on doing my next very similar, but I'm feeling that I'd rather have the bulbs mounted alng the long side like your current reflector, but make it so that it hands flat/level.


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## purpdaddy (Oct 3, 2009)

Luv the lil DIY reflector..why didnt i think of that...So simple!


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## tmsculli (Oct 3, 2009)

The first one that I made does hang relatively flat. The additional chain that is hooked to the front gets pulled up and tight to make it so that the lights are almost completely horizontal across it. The reason i did this set up for the second one is because this reflector is going to be over the main tank which is going to have more plants in it. I wanted the lighting to be a bit more spread out.


I do have a question though guys. How do you think I should set this up for the perpetual SOG deal? I can't exactly get a plan in my head about it./


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## cruzer101 (Oct 3, 2009)

Hey bud,

I was messin around last night with the reflection of the sheet metal and when you said you were trying to spread the light 
I thought I would show you what I found out. When the metal is bent like a half circle VS spreading it out it does not reflect
as much. I turned off all the light in the room but one and tested it. 







Check it out It seems like by flattening it out a bit I get much more reflection.








Now I am just using one light but i thought you might want to know this.​


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## Roseman (Oct 3, 2009)

I think that is one of the most brilliant test I have ever seen on this site. And to see it with our own eyes!

I applaud you, bro.


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## tmsculli (Oct 3, 2009)

Wow Cruzer, that is pretty cool man. Good to know if I ever fab up any in the future. Had a wicked ride on those chocolate boomers today. Had my shit rearranged again haha. Didn't check on my girls all day until now. They are fine though


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## MRsteverson (Oct 3, 2009)

looking good... i usually put the rockwool all the way to the bottom of the cup then i cover the rest with a neoprene insert. i figgure rockwool and hydroton are both medium and i saw no use for both..


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## cruzer101 (Oct 4, 2009)

Roseman said:


> I think that is one of the most brilliant test I have ever seen on this site. And to see it with our own eyes!
> 
> I applaud you, bro.


Just trying to help out.
But thanks man. 

You should see my DYI chiller.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 5, 2009)

Tmsculli, what kind of "round" air stones are you using? Asking because I'm not very happy at all with the blue bars that I get from Wal-Mart, and since I'm re-designing my system to go into five gallon buckets, I was curious as to what airstone you were using because you seemed to be a big fan of it.

Of course, if memory serves you're also going with a much larger pump (like a 100-150) versus the 20-60s that I plan on having per bucket, so that obviously helps out your airstone tremendously.

Thanks in advance for your help, kiddo.


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## tmsculli (Oct 5, 2009)

Hey Bob, I am just using 6" round airstones that I found at a pet store. Nothing too special about them. Now, I have the powerful air pump and two of the smaller ones that you plan on having. THe smaller ones are plenty strong enough to take care of a single circle stone.


DAY 39



Everything looks good. I am waiting for my damn mini fans to get here so that I can switch to flower. I can't have it be dark in there and have ventilation, so I need those small fans so I can work it all out. Since I am letting the smaller plants get taller because I'm waiting to flower, I made a screen last night to do a SCROG. I found an old box fan and cut out all but every 4th little plastic bar. This gave me a bunch of rectangles about 2"x3". It is perfect size for the rubbermaid tub. I just need to figure out how to keep it where I want it now. I may hang it, or build some legs for it to go to the ground. I'll get pics up soon so you guys can see what I am talking about.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks for your answer; I'm still unsure what I'm gonna go with, I guess I'll run out and buy a few different ones and compare them.

BTW, that old fan cover for a SCROG sounds pretty cool, good job.


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## tmsculli (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks Bob and today is just awesome.


Finally done my hell exam week!!! yay!!!!

Also......I found the instruction manual online for my light timer!!!!

So once those fans get here it is flowering time kids.


Ill take pics of the screen for you guys. You can let m eknow if it will work out


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## tmsculli (Oct 5, 2009)

Alright, here is the screen I made.













Like I said I can't decide whether I want to hang it or give it legs, but I will figure it out. Can't do any work today, friends keep stopping by and then I have to work later.

You think this will work for me guys? I'm really starting to get excited about getting some bud!


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 5, 2009)

you want it on legs man, if you susspend it the plant could push it up. Try getting some pvc pipe and some bends to make a frame, go to a hardware store. (dont forget the pvc cement)


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## Bob Smith (Oct 5, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Alright, here is the screen I made.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that you've got a great idea, and I've never done SCROG so I don't know whether it will make a difference or not, but those squares look to be materially smaller than the standard trellis that most use - someone who's done SCROG can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know if those squares are large enough for the bud sites to grow through.

Another issue with the smaller size and rigidity of it is that I'd be concerned about it hurting the plant(s).

Just some random thoughts.


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## tmsculli (Oct 5, 2009)

Yea, I was a bit worried about it hurting them too which is why I was going to make the holes bigger. If I make the holes bigger then there will be enough room for them to get wound through it without getting hurt. Someone else help me out though with some definite yesses or nos on where I should go from there with it.

I hear you on that pvc craig. I am broke now, and not allowing myself to throw more money at it, so pvc may have to wait and some homemade legs may have to do for now.



on an amazing note my fans came. So i calibrated my timer, set up my fans, finished blacking out the box, and at 7:00pm we start darkness gentlemen.


yay!!!!


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## cruzer101 (Oct 5, 2009)

Naw, that square size is fine. Legs or hang dont matter. Just tie it down.
At first train under the screen then up through and tie to the screen. You will never get one bud per hole, all you can do is try.


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## tmsculli (Oct 5, 2009)

Cruzer, thanks for the input. I was looking through how you were doing it the other day, but I wanted to be sure. Do you weave it in and out of it, or do you just bring it up through and then tie it down? 


Also, if there is anything else that I should know about flipping into flowering or anything like that please let me know. This is my babies first night alone. I hope they sleep okay.


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## cruzer101 (Oct 5, 2009)

It dosent really matter, you are just restricting the height. as the plant grows you need to train the side branches too. keep training and keep them close to the screen untill the second week of flower is finished. Then the stretching is done. let them go.

Just make sure when you do make a tie down the grow tip is not pointing down. You want it sideways or up on an angle.


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## tmsculli (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks Cruzer, good to know.


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## tmsculli (Oct 6, 2009)

Day 40 Veg on Mother & Day 1 Flower for the little ones


So they survived their first night in the dark and with their new full strength nutes of all 3 persuasions, they are thriving. They were wilting a bit this week so I was hoping that I would get this response form them. My blackout job works perfectly and everything is going pretty well.


My only questions are about my screen. Should I cut it out so I will use 4 of those little squares into 1 big one? Also, at what height should I use it? I think I may want to start using it now to be honest. I am running out of vertical room and once I get that other reflector in there it will be pretty limited.


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## tmsculli (Oct 6, 2009)

I just set up the reflector. It looks great. I am missing one wiring setup to get the 4th bulb in there so there are only three for now. It reflects it around very very well and is nice and sturdy. I'll get pictures up tomorrow most likely.

Oh, also, some of the leaves are starting to look and feel almost a bit...plasticy? like...thin plastic almost cellophane. Any ideas?


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## cruzer101 (Oct 6, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> at what height should I use it?


I have found 25% of total height works well.
So if your light it 4 feet away, 1 foot in height.


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## tmsculli (Oct 6, 2009)

25% eh? Well that means I need it.....last week. Hahaha Alrighty, looks like I am figuring out how to secure that bad boy tomorrow afternoon. Funny thing is, it is night 2 of well....night...and I just realized that these seeds aren't sexed. I have no idea if they are male or female. I would hate to have all 3 of them be males =/


OPTIMISM =]

Keep 'em happy and chlorophyl will do the rest


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## cruzer101 (Oct 7, 2009)

As long as they are in separate pots you can still pull a male. Its harder to do in hydro cause the roots get tangled. You will be OK, just cut it up. Maybe a good time to start learning how to clone. Get some gel and practice on a weed from the yard.

After 2 weeks flower you will want to remove all the lower growth. Anything that isn't past the screen goes. That means you will have several clones. Just make sure you number or name the plants and keep the cuttings labeled so if one is male you toss the cuttings you got from him.

Then you will be set with all females.​


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## tmsculli (Oct 7, 2009)

Cruzer, thanks for the tips, but I actually am not going to clone these guys. I am only even growing these to calm my nerves and give me something to do while big momma gets ready. She will be ready to clone at the end of the month so I can start having some guaranteed female Snow White strong indica clones going at that time. I am going to try and get the screen in now, but I'm still a little scared and confused about it man. I already have clonex and all that fun stuff and I have cloned bamboo from my backyard haha.

I just need a guide on screening these guys up. like I said, I'm just a little scared about bending them and such.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 7, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Cruzer, thanks for the tips, but I actually am not going to clone these guys. I am only even growing these to calm my nerves and give me something to do while big momma gets ready. She will be ready to clone at the end of the month so I can start having some guaranteed female Snow White strong indica clones going at that time. I am going to try and get the screen in now, but I'm still a little scared and confused about it man. I already have clonex and all that fun stuff and I have cloned bamboo from my backyard haha.
> 
> I just need a guide on screening these guys up. like I said, I'm just a little scared about bending them and such.


Why would you need to bend them? Pretty sure you want to place the screen above them and let them grow into it (about 75% coverage, from what I've read) and then flower them - don't think that you should be manipulating them to fit into the screen.


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## masterd (Oct 7, 2009)

nice grow son, really starting to take some form, actually on the last steps of building my DWC/bubbler system, keep up the good work hope everything goes smoothely thoughout the flower stage mate.


id comment on the SCROG but i dont know enough about it and id probably be leading u in the wrong direction but a good place to find good info is in the FAQ at the top of the page(its got just about everything.....


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## tmsculli (Oct 7, 2009)

Yea, Bob this is why I am confused, I can't seem to find exactly what to be doing. I just set it up and pulled a few bud spots up but I don't know if it was right. Any changes will have to be made tomorrow afternoon though or possibly late this afternoon before the lights go out at 7, we will see how things go. Hopefully I come home to a great explanation haha.


Thanks for the kind words master, best of luck to you


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## masterd (Oct 7, 2009)

SCROG - check that out fair bit of info their for ya mate....


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 7, 2009)

Got the pump, the pots, the maniford the airstone and the feeder pipes and some canna nutes. Just waiting on white widow seeds and a box then it's full steam ahead man.

Hope everything is goingwell with your grow man, are you finding that you are having to top your res up all the time with more water and nutes or are you just changing it once a week.


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## tmsculli (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks masterd, it seems that I am doing this all wrong. I was unaware that it took previous training as well as having the plant grow into the screen as opposed to just plopping a screen on it. I am not sure how what I am doing is going to work out then, I guess we will see.


Craig, sounds good man I hope your beans get to you quickly. I haven't noticed much rapid water level change at all to be honest, I just kind of got into the habit of swapping once a week I guess.


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## tmsculli (Oct 7, 2009)

Okay, so here is my SCROG setup, I really hope I didn't do anything drastically wrong. please let me know if I have guys.


Also you see my new reflector, I am missing one bulb, but it still is doing extremely well.




























Earlier I kinda pulled up some of the bud spots and made it so that they were right above the screen. I just feel bleh about this hole scrogging deal, a little confused even after reading information that many people have showed me.


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## cruzer101 (Oct 7, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Why would you need to bend them? Pretty sure you want to place the screen above them and let them grow into it (about 75% coverage, from what I've read) and then flower them - don't think that you should be manipulating them to fit into the screen.


Why even use a screen then? cause it looks pretty?

I am sorry but you are wrong. 
Yes you bend the stalks, you either tie them to the screen or run them under it.

Keep veg training untill the screen is about half way full then flip to 12/12. Then keep training for two more weeks. Your screen will fill out to about 80% full. keep them close to the screen untill the end of the second or even third week of flower. That depends on if they still stretching. Once they are done stretching then let them go. You will have an even layer of buds.

Be sure when you do tie them you leave enough space for the stalk to fill out.


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## tmsculli (Oct 7, 2009)

Well today is day 3 of flowering already. I put the screen up how it is in the pictures, is that an okay height? They were never trained before hand though so is it okay to just plop that on to it? 


Basically, Cruzer, is what is shown in the pictures above an acceptable looking thing. Meaning is there a super special thing that I need to do


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## cruzer101 (Oct 7, 2009)

Yea, sure its acceptable.
No theres no special thing you need to do.

let the tips grow a couple inches and then either weave them through the next square or tie them. its simple really. Even if you bend one too far and the stalk folds your still alright as long as it don't snap. 

Actually thats called super cropping. pinch the stem and bend it there until it folds and tie it. Its a way to get the same results without a screen. Its better to use a screen first though. That way you get used to bending them and get an idea how far you can go.

As the plant gets older you will see it gets harder to bend the stalk. Then what you do is bend it halfway, tie it. and in a few days bend it the rest of the way.


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## tmsculli (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks a lot cruzer! I think that puts it all in a little bit of a better perspective for me. I will be sure to bend a few stalks down tomorrow afternoon when I check on them.


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## masterd (Oct 7, 2009)

yeah without the bending and weaving SCROG is just SOG with ur plants tangled in a screen, hopefully you get enough stretch to be able to do right.

anyway man good luck once again, and that FAQ i sent you to is a life saver, i think ive read all of it about 4 or 5 times, its got info on everything, i always give it a quick scratchin over before asking questions in a forum...

good luck with it all mate cant wait to see it in a couple of weeks


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## Knickers (Oct 8, 2009)

I would have gone and cut some wire fencing to get a good wire screen. The cut bits of plastic look evil to me... I think they will enjoy tearing the leaves on your plants :/ It's not too late though...


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## tmsculli (Oct 8, 2009)

Yea, the plastic makes me a little nervous too, but I don't have any choice. I literally am broke right now. Growing has taken all of my money, so now I can't dump in any money that I don't have, so that's good. 

If it is doing more harm then good then I will cut it out and take it down, but hopefully I can get some decent results from it.


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## tmsculli (Oct 8, 2009)

Okay, so I just took a bunch of pictures while talking to myself, asking the questions I wish to ask as captions for you guys haha. 

they are uploading now and then hopefully I can get some stuff figured out.


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## tmsculli (Oct 8, 2009)

The SCROG baby pictures are on the way, but for now, take a look at big momma!

This is day 39 for her


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## tmsculli (Oct 8, 2009)

Alrighty, bare with me. This is day 3 of flower for these little ones. The pictures show me holding and pointing to certain bud spots etc and showing possible bends. I basically want to know if the proposed positions and such that I am doing in the pictures are correct.







^ This one isn't tall enough at the bud point, so could I gently tie it up right behind it so that it is facing up?







^ These ones with the multiple points, I can just lay this down and gently tie them up? 







^ Like that?














I also don't even know the sex yet, I'm sure someone can tell, but I am not going to be sure until I see some pistils.



Here is the main question I guess though:

In topping, you cut the top point to allow light to get to the lower two points and grow. Is the goal of this kind of to do the same thing? Instead of cutting off branches though, you just lay them down to allow sunlight to get to all of the points? While this may be really obvious, I just want to make sure that I am going into this with the right goal. Also, I may not even know the right bud spots haha.

If anything above seems good, bad, indifferent, just please let me know!

Thanks guys!


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## spr0ck3t (Oct 8, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> My mother is looking amazing and doing some serious gulping of the liquid.


Ok sorry, i am really enjoying your post and its very informative!

But this line made me chuckle...


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## tmsculli (Oct 8, 2009)

Haha, thanks sprocket...I can't even remember when that line was posted, which means I was most likely stoned. Thanks for stopping by man, keep checkin in!


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## cruzer101 (Oct 8, 2009)

If you want to weave them then you need to let them get tall enough so when you do bend you can go through the next hole in the screen and back up the next hole. 

If you are going to tie to the screen then sure. thats a good place to start. Point them in the direction you have most room.


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## Knickers (Oct 8, 2009)

And just on the screen; if you're broke you can just go and cut up an old fence for the required wire = free?


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## tmsculli (Oct 8, 2009)

I have fencing rolled up in my backyard, but I couldn't cut it. I tried wire cutters and all kinds of shit, it is too thick. Thanks for the heads up cruzer. I think I am going to tie it so I will get working on that thanks.


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## purpdaddy (Oct 8, 2009)

MAD PROPS BRO!!

You commin along GREAT!

Keep it up and i promise youll reap a nice harvest


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## tmsculli (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks big purp, it's good to hear from you again! Always good to have your approval. Man I am hoping I have a good harvest. I have fallen into pretty deep shit on all sides of life lately and sadly this grow may be my only way out. I pray that I can keep everything together and just keep on keepin on.


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## diggitydank420 (Oct 8, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Thanks big purp, it's good to hear from you again! Always good to have your approval. Man I am hoping I have a good harvest. I have fallen into pretty deep shit on all sides of life lately and sadly this grow may be my only way out. I pray that I can keep everything together and just keep on keepin on.


I know how you feel, bro. I was about $300 away from a down payment for a car back in June. Then I was hit by a car on my bicycle and didn't work for about 6 weeks so all of that money went bye-bye. And of course business at work has gone waaaaay down so I'm just barely scraping by. Sure, I could save myself about $200-300/month if I stopped buying weed, but my first harvest is still 5 weeks away! But it'll be all good after that since I'll be chopping 6 plants every 3 weeks. I'm hoping for about 1/2-3/4oz per plant in my little SOG setup.


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## tmsculli (Oct 8, 2009)

Yea, this project started as a way to save me money and instead it took all of it. My first harvest should be in the middle of December. I have bought about $2k in weed for me and my buddies since this spring, those fuckers never paid up. I'm not buying shit until this harvest is done, hopefully they'll end up bringing some around for me.

The funny thing is that it's just a vicious cycle. You make money and want to spend more of it on your grow to make your grow better and bigger and the best bud ever all in the name of saving. Seems that sometimes it would have been cheaper to just buy weed hahha.

No where near as fun though. It's tough, but we'll make it through brother. I'm going back into work tomorrow and telling them to give me 4 or 5 shifts a week. I originally wanted only 3 so I had time to study but the fact of the matter is that I was dreaming. I never study, I would just waste my money smoking all the time, so I may as well work more, make more, and have less time to sit on my ass smoking. It also will make the few chances I have to sit on my ass and smoke that much better.


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## infexion1134 (Oct 8, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Yea, this project started as a way to save me money and instead it took all of it


Exactly, the learning curve is fun as it sucks you in. There is always something bigger and better that you want $$$
Awesome grow tmsculli


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## tmsculli (Oct 9, 2009)

Good morning everyone

Hey infexion, thanks for stopping by man. The learning curve is definitely a bitch, but it's a lot of fun. To be honest, there is not too much that I would buy for the grow I have going now. The money tends to be spent on things that I am not sure if I need, but people tell me that it helps. Like right now, I think that I have subpar exhaust. That being said, I dont have plant problems, temp problems or anything like that. If I had money I would probably spend 180$ on an inline fan and do it up haha.


Just checked on them and everything looks great. I just spent a good half hour tediously bending and zip-tying and weaving and blah blah. SCROGing is turning into to being a lot of fun. I like that something I am doing is having a direct change in the natural processes of the plant for the better. Kind of like topping --> easy things make huge gains you know?

I just took a bunch of pictures of the new work I've done with them that will be uploaded in a minute or so. 

I am still curious about the sex of these little ones. I am going to take some macro shots of the points and see if anyone can tell. I know what a male pre-flower is supposed to look like and even though I can't see one, I'm not necessarily seeing giant hairs either, ya dig?


So yea, things look good. Pictures on the way.


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## tmsculli (Oct 9, 2009)

Alright, here is Day 4 of Flower for the little ones. Just wanted to show some of the new training that I did and possibly see if you guys can read the sex:






















































How are they looking?

Also, I am uploading pictures of Snow White Mother now. I just had a quick question. I know the general rule of thumb is 2 months before cloning from a mother, but are there exceptions? She is incredibly healthy with a ridiculously thick stem and great looking leaves. I was just wondering if I could start getting some clones working or if I should wait until the end of the month.


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## tmsculli (Oct 9, 2009)

Here is big momma on Day 40 of veg


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## Bob Smith (Oct 9, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Alright, here is Day 4 of Flower for the little ones. Just wanted to show some of the new training that I did and possibly see if you guys can read the sex:
> 
> How are they looking?
> 
> Also, I am uploading pictures of Snow White Mother now. I just had a quick question. I know the general rule of thumb is 2 months before cloning from a mother, but are there exceptions? She is incredibly healthy with a ridiculously thick stem and great looking leaves. I was just wondering if I could start getting some clones working or if I should wait until the end of the month.


Looking good buddy, looking good - would love to help you on the early sexing, but that was something that I never bothered with - bought a cheapo microscope from Radio Shack and couldn't do it, so I've always just waited until I saw hairs or balls (not the preferred method, I know, but works for me).

As far as your mom goes, you can for sure take clones off of her - you could've cloned her weeks ago, based on how large she is now (of course, it depends on how many clones and how large you want them, so obviously that needs to be taken into account).

And Tmsculli, there's something to be said for making things work with less money - I've spent oodles and oodles of it with nothing to show so far (but I do have a lot of cool gadgets now).

Keep on growing, I'm sure both of our little adventures will pay off big time, eventually.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 9, 2009)

Oh, and make sure you study - good grades in college are kinda important.

Also get an internship if you can this summer.

And don't do drugs or sleep with loose women.

That is all.


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## tmsculli (Oct 9, 2009)

Bob, you're the man my friend. I love being the opposite of the stereotypical stoner. I graduated highschool top 20 out of 700 with straight A's and a 4.3GPA. I did extracurriculars out the ass and got into a very good University. Full time student taking 5 classes each semester while working part time and so far I have gotten Dean's List every semester. This semester is definitely my hardest, trying to keep above a 3.2 atleast but it is going to be tough. I went to an interview with JP Morgan Chase the other day for a summer internship so that looks a bit promising. I work hard and I play hard, I guess that's just how I roll haha.

I'm nervous to pop into cloning just yet because I don't know what to do with them to be honest haha. I want to have a semi perpetual deal going with a small amount, but I don't think I have the space to do it. I wanted to only do 2 clones at a time getting a harvest once every...month and a half or 2 months maybe? I honestly guess I haven't thought into it too much. I was looking around and found diggitydank's 3 gallon dwc tub and I think I may make one of those for my clones since they will take up such little space. 


Anyone have any suggestions on how to setup my cloning? I could use pointers on timing, placement, setup etc.


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## tmsculli (Oct 9, 2009)

Hmmm, I just got an idea. What if I were to use plastic containers that are relatively small like cups, or those plastic painting pails you can get really cheap. I could do one clone per with a humidity dome on top, and have an air pump splitting between the two cups. This way I don't need to make space for anything else or set up new lights because my box for my mother will have a bit of room for them in there.


Does this sound like it may work?


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## Bob Smith (Oct 9, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Bob, you're the man my friend. I love being the opposite of the stereotypical stoner. I graduated highschool top 20 out of 700 with straight A's and a 4.3GPA. I did extracurriculars out the ass and got into a very good University. Full time student taking 5 classes each semester while working part time and so far I have gotten Dean's List every semester. This semester is definitely my hardest, trying to keep above a 3.2 atleast but it is going to be tough. I went to an interview with JP Morgan Chase the other day for a summer internship so that looks a bit promising. I work hard and I play hard, I guess that's just how I roll haha.
> 
> I'm nervous to pop into cloning just yet because I don't know what to do with them to be honest haha. I want to have a semi perpetual deal going with a small amount, but I don't think I have the space to do it. I wanted to only do 2 clones at a time getting a harvest once every...month and a half or 2 months maybe? I honestly guess I haven't thought into it too much. I was looking around and found diggitydank's 3 gallon dwc tub and I think I may make one of those for my clones since they will take up such little space.
> 
> ...


Well at your age I certainly wasn't the opposite, but as I get older I am much, much more driven then I was before - I agree, work hard and play hard, get the most out of life - I've been playing "catch-up" for the last ten years to make up for the fact that my grades in college stunk and I didn't do any internships, and in an EXTREMELY competitive field like mine, not going Ivy and doing two or three internships at Goldman means you're WAY behind the curve.

Anyways, as far as your cloning question, give a little executive summary of what you're thinking, and I could certainly help you out with that - "perpetual harvest is my bag, baybay".

How long did you want to veg before flowering, how many plants can you flower at a time, how often are you looking to harvest, how many plants can you veg at a time - I think those questions just about cover it.

BTW, you might be the one to make it work, and I admittedly don't know dick about SCROG, but I'm not sure how compatible SCROG is with a perpetual harvest, and truthfully don't think it would work that great, based on my limited understanding.


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## tmsculli (Oct 9, 2009)

Goldman meaning Goldman Sachs? A business man like myself I see? haha


You may have missed the middle post, I kinda answered your questions a bit. i think we posted around the same time.

Either way this is kind of what I'm looking for.



1.) I want to have enough smoke to chill on in between harvest for personal and some friends, maybe make a few bones, but far from anything serious. personal consumption is the main focus.

2.) Due to my limited space, I was thinking of only doing 2 or 3 plants at a time, but that could change because of veg times like you said. Since I have such a strong mother, maybe I could just go 6 clones, veg for a very short time, just until we get some roots and then start flowering. Eliminating the screen is a huge possibility. I did it this time for these ones since they are coming from seed and it is my first flower cycle. The last thing I wanted was the amazon in my closet and no where to put it, if you get my drift.

3.) The flower and veg thing is the main issue. In my Mother Box, like I said in my previous post, I may be able to veg indepent containers with a single clone each, but I would say no more than 3 at a time. If that seems possible, I could veg 3 at a time, move them to the flower site and flower those 3, take new cuttings and rinse and repeat. I feel like 3 plants may be the perfect amount for me.

4.) The when I would like to harvest deal is kind of up in the air. If I can get a big harvest and keep it airtight and fresh for a while, then I wouldn't need more than I have. Basically, since it is for mostly personal use, I just want to have some tree at all times haha. I never want to run dry staring at my plants every day like I do now.


take a glance at the post before the one above this which i post now. It explained the answers to those questions a bit before you asked them haha.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 9, 2009)

All right, let's start from scratch - how large is your veg area and how large is your flowering area?

Because those are the two main constraints to what you're trying to do - in a perpetual SOG setup, four plants per square foot (with about a week of veg time) is a good number to go off of.

All the plant numbers and things of that nature aren't really relevent because you could grow ten small plants in the space it takes to grow one big plant, so let's go with pure area first - numbers?


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## tmsculli (Oct 9, 2009)

Bob, I didn't want to quote myself and drag all the pictures in here as well, but my opening post for the thread has all of that info in it with pictures that may give you a better idea of what I am working with.

The thing is that I have the mother box which is obviously a veg area. Now, this being said, the remainder of the closet can obviously be used as either a veg or a flower area. I made it so that it is light tight so I am currently flowering in there, but I vegged them in that area since seed. This is basically where my dilemma and confusion kicks in.


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 9, 2009)

got my shit and put it together, does this mean i can be a bubble head now hahaha. 

Cheers for the advice wouldn't have done this if it wasn't for your comparison pics.

The only problem i have now is the air pump doesn't kick out enough power for my 12" air stone, better get to the shop and spend MORE money.


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## tmsculli (Oct 9, 2009)

yay Craig! those are some hefty net pots you've got there my friend. One thing I noticed though, in picture #3, are those drip line outputs? If so, I guess you are trying to just not have those extra 4 dripping into nothing? I may be wrong, but since they are all outputs you will be pushing water into each other at those points. Not sure how much pressure that could create to maybe get a problem, but it may be something you want to look at. I would say cut 2" pieces of the hose that are plugged shut and put one on each port you don't plan on using. As far as the pump goes, which one did you get? the 60 gallon fish tank ones are usually okay for a 5 gallon bucket, but for something that size like what you and I are using, you would want 2 of those or 1 like 100 gallon air pump or something around those lines. Looks good though man, keep it up!


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 9, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> yay Craig! those are some hefty net pots you've got there my friend. One thing I noticed though, in picture #3, are those drip line outputs? If so, I guess you are trying to just not have those extra 4 dripping into nothing? I may be wrong, but since they are all outputs you will be pushing water into each other at those points. Not sure how much pressure that could create to maybe get a problem, but it may be something you want to look at. I would say cut 2" pieces of the hose that are plugged shut and put one on each port you don't plan on using. As far as the pump goes, which one did you get? the 60 gallon fish tank ones are usually okay for a 5 gallon bucket, but for something that size like what you and I are using, you would want 2 of those or 1 like 100 gallon air pump or something around those lines. Looks good though man, keep it up!


Ye man the pots are a little big, they only had 5" and i wanted 4. I am not the sort of person that can wait around for things. Even though i am having to wait around for those pissing seed's.

They didn't have a irrigation hub either so i bought that 8 way dripper, i blocked them 4 off cause i dont need them, the water comes out a little faster than i wanted but hey we will see what happens when i get the ball rolling. I can alway just let them drip straight into the water if i have too much pressure.

Cheers buddy.


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## tmsculli (Oct 9, 2009)

Sounds good man, I just wanted to run some possibilities by you to make sure you have assessed them. Keep me updated brother.


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## tmsculli (Oct 10, 2009)

Alright guys, I need some help. I have done a lot of research about cloning, but I'm not sure how I should set mine up with my situation I have going here. Bob and I went back and forth for a few posts above about it and didn't really come to any real conclusion.

What do I need to get cloning? Can I just pop them in some phed rockwool in a humidity dome and go for the gold? Do I need to have bubbles going, like meaning the air pump etc? I was thinking about taking two clones and starting them off in little cups as long as I don't need to air bubbles and such.

If any of you guys have a good idea please let me know

thanks


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## Knickers (Oct 10, 2009)

Instead of blocking the four dippers you're not using just let them run into the res. This might reduce pressure and let the others drip slower? I'm not a scientist but that sounds logical to
me


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## cruzer101 (Oct 10, 2009)

If you are going to flower in DWC then it makes sense to root in something that will work in the DWC right? 
You could use just about anything that will fit in the net pot. I would recommend rapid rooter cubes. 
I find it much easier to get roots with them. 

I have moved to the neoprene collars. I insert the cutting, drop it in my DIY ezcloner and in two weeks I got roots. 
I can get roots in one week with rooter cubes.​


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## tmsculli (Oct 11, 2009)

I have a shit ton of rockwool and no money, haha so I am stuck with using them. What is this DIY cloner you speak of? I really still need some ideas as to where in my set up and how I should go about cloning for all of this.


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## diggitydank420 (Oct 11, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> I have a shit ton of rockwool and no money, haha so I am stuck with using them. What is this DIY cloner you speak of? I really still need some ideas as to where in my set up and how I should go about cloning for all of this.


You can use my 3 gallon setup for cloning. That's what I use.


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## tmsculli (Oct 11, 2009)

Yea I was going to do that because I only want to take like 3 clones at a time, but the problem is I don't have space for it. I also would like to not have to keep spending money. I was thinking about making some independent cloner humidity domes. Make one per plant out of like a two liter or something. they are small enough that I can fit them in the veg box with the mother. Would this work? Then I could just transfer them once they root into the main system, right? I may be wrong though. Is it not a good idea to try and do this without 2 separate systems going? Meaning, having the one tote for flowering, but I am going to need another full system to veg the young clones in?

knfjbajfea ugh


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## tmsculli (Oct 11, 2009)

Basically I need to know if it is a pipe dream for me to want to veg my clones in the same little box as the mother of if I need to figure something else out. I mean, if I use the 3 gallon thing it will be light enough that I can put it on the shelf, and it's also hotter up there so humidity would stay up. Maybe that is the way to go.


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## diggitydank420 (Oct 11, 2009)

Hey, it works for me, bro! Here's my veg/clone cab as of just about 3 minutes ago (LST moms on the left and clones on the right)


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## purpdaddy (Oct 12, 2009)

You can veg you clones in the same box with no prob..

Lookin good diggitydank


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## tmsculli (Oct 12, 2009)

See like I said I know it will work, and it is what I do want to do, but I don't think I have the space for it. I'll see what happens. I think I want to wait longer before jumping into it too. I have these into flower and it's a learning process within itself. I'd like to make sure everything is settled before biting off more than I can chew I think.


So, this is Day 7 of Flower for the little ones. I am almost positive that all of them are female. I have not seen any balls or nubs and I'm seeing very similar growth to that of my feminized snow white mother. I am really starting to get the hang of the scroging and I think I like it. I'm hoping that doing it this way is going to give a higher yield than my original plan which was to basically focus on the main cola of each plant. Here are some pictures of them filling out with a few shots of the ones that are starting to grow very nicely.



























It is also day 43 for my mother. She is gigantic, and pretty happy. I admit I have been paying less attention to her since I am flowering the little ones, but I think that's okay. She is eating and drinking a lot, but I am not confident in myself to add nutes mid week to get back to full, so I think I am just going to keep waiting it out and doing full swaps each week. I will most likely do a swap on both systems tomorrow or wednesday. I am interested in cloning, but like I said above, I think I may wait a bit and see what happens with this. Here are a few shots of her.
















Does everything look okay? If any of you guys have questions, comments, concerns, as usual....speak up!

Later


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## tmsculli (Oct 12, 2009)

Purp, you mean veg them in the same hydro system, or in the same box as in the mother box? The only thing with the mother box is that I would only have room for doing independent like single cup clone systems. I mentioned it, and kind of like the idea, but no one has given me any feedback on how well this would work. I guess I could just try it haha. God knows that plants not going anywhere, she's gonna be rooted to the damn closet if she gets any bigger haha.


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## infexion1134 (Oct 12, 2009)

Looking great tmsculli, the scrog looks interesting. I hope it works out good for you. I may try that next time so i'm def keeping an eye on this thread


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 12, 2009)

Everything is looking well man, cant belive it has been 43 days allready since i started following this thread. 

I can say this with all honesty this thread has turned my way of growing around, hopefully for the better.

Got my self a new 140 gallon a hour air pump coming, a couple of years this would not have got me excited but at this moment in time i couldn't thing i anything i want more ( it's got 4 out lets WOOOW!!!!)

Pots are deffinatley too BIG man but you live and learn.


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## tmsculli (Oct 12, 2009)

Infexion, thanks for stopping by brother. Yea, the SCROG is...interesting to say the least haha. Being strapped for cash I innovated and we will see if I strike out or not haha.


Craig, it's so weird for me to hear that too man. Like realizing that I will have my own home grown bud in December is a wild thought to me haha. The setup looks good man, keep it up. Four outlets sounds intense you are going to be bubbling up a storm brother.


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## purpdaddy (Oct 13, 2009)

December is my chopping month also!Atleast thats what im shooting for.


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## tmsculli (Oct 13, 2009)

mmmm CHristmas bud


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## tmsculli (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm actually feeling a little pessimistic about things today guys. I woke up and saw that the lights had come on on schedule and everything was fine. I went to class and them came back to do my afternoon ph, water, blah blah etc. The lights were off. The damn breaker popped again. I am almost positive it popped only like 40 minutes before, so maybe it won't be too bad. What can happen from things like this? Also, I'm still unsure of the sex of these plants. It has been 8 days, shouldn't I be seeing some definite sex? I also found that I was a little rough with some spots, I broke a branch, and found another one bruised a little bit from bending and tying down too tight. 

I'm just a little unsure and not positive that I am where I should be being at day 9 of flower. I guess I will just have to wait and see?


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 13, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> I'm actually feeling a little pessimistic about things today guys. I woke up and saw that the lights had come on on schedule and everything was fine. I went to class and them came back to do my afternoon ph, water, blah blah etc. The lights were off. The damn breaker popped again. I am almost positive it popped only like 40 minutes before, so maybe it won't be too bad. What can happen from things like this? Also, I'm still unsure of the sex of these plants. It has been 8 days, shouldn't I be seeing some definite sex? I also found that I was a little rough with some spots, I broke a branch, and found another one bruised a little bit from bending and tying down too tight.
> 
> I'm just a little unsure and not positive that I am where I should be being at day 9 of flower. I guess I will just have to wait and see?


Some people say the messing with the lighting schedual can cause the plant to hermie, on the other hand some people say that hermie is due to weak genetic's and nothing to do with stress, look hard enough and you will find a aguement for both on here.

Take it easy man sounds like your having a shit day, we all have them, for godness sake though when the buds get big and thick, check DEEP down for bud rot. Because nothing destroys you more than losing a third of your crop just before harvest TRUST ME ON THAT ONE.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 13, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> I'm actually feeling a little pessimistic about things today guys. I woke up and saw that the lights had come on on schedule and everything was fine. I went to class and them came back to do my afternoon ph, water, blah blah etc. The lights were off. The damn breaker popped again. I am almost positive it popped only like 40 minutes before, so maybe it won't be too bad. What can happen from things like this? Also, I'm still unsure of the sex of these plants. It has been 8 days, shouldn't I be seeing some definite sex? I also found that I was a little rough with some spots, I broke a branch, and found another one bruised a little bit from bending and tying down too tight.
> 
> I'm just a little unsure and not positive that I am where I should be being at day 9 of flower. I guess I will just have to wait and see?


How much are you running on that breaker and what size is it?

Seems weird, I don't think you're drawing that much electric, are you?


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## tmsculli (Oct 13, 2009)

THanks craig, you are probably right. Just a rough one I guess. That stress then caused me to fuck up the nute concentration TWICE on my mother. Wasted a good 4 TBSP of Micro and Grow =/ I'm sure you will keep reminding me about that rot =P

Bob, no I'm not, but this house is shit. The fucking electric makes no sense and is terrible. We have been tripping things every once in a while either up here in my closet, or down in the garage because of a stereo, or fridge etc. The house only has one GFI and it didnt seem to reset anything anyway. I have a portable GFI in the outlet I just though.

Hopefully it won't happen again. I'll let it go this time, if I find it dark one more time then I will make some serious changes and make it more dependable.



For the most part though I am just nervous that I am behind schedule on my SCROG deal, I reallllllly want this to go through man haha.



Also, have any of you guys taken any thought to my cloning questions? About the individual clone containers?


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## Bob Smith (Oct 13, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Yea I was going to do that because I only want to take like 3 clones at a time, but the problem is I don't have space for it. I also would like to not have to keep spending money. I was thinking about making some independent cloner humidity domes. Make one per plant out of like a two liter or something. they are small enough that I can fit them in the veg box with the mother. Would this work? Then I could just transfer them once they root into the main system, right? I may be wrong though. Is it not a good idea to try and do this without 2 separate systems going? Meaning, having the one tote for flowering, but I am going to need another full system to veg the young clones in?
> 
> knfjbajfea ugh


Yeah, that cloning idea will work - any clear plastic that acts as a "greenhouse" can be used for cloning. Just go get yourself a $2 bag of jiffy pellets to root them in and that'll work fine.


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## tmsculli (Oct 13, 2009)

Is it okay to go from Jiffy pellets into a hydro system? I have a shit ton of rockwool and would rather use that to be honest. 

So I am thinking a 2 liter bottle, cut at about 2/3 the way up, refit the top into the bottom. Then what? Do I keep like...1/4" of water in the bottom with the rockwool sitting there and the then obviously the clone is in the rockwool.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 13, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Is it okay to go from Jiffy pellets into a hydro system? I have a shit ton of rockwool and would rather use that to be honest.
> 
> So I am thinking a 2 liter bottle, cut at about 2/3 the way up, refit the top into the bottom. Then what? Do I keep like...1/4" of water in the bottom with the rockwool sitting there and the then obviously the clone is in the rockwool.


Yeah, rockwool's fine, forgot that you already had it.

And you don't want it sitting in water because it'll get too wet and cause stem rot - just keep it nice and saturated for the first couple of days, and then start taking the top off for a little bit at a time to harden the clone off.

You want the rockwool to be wet but not soaked, if that helps at all.

Trust me, cloning's not hard at all - you're gonna laugh to yourself when you realize how easy it is.


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## tmsculli (Oct 14, 2009)

Awesome, I think I'll try that today. Thanks man


sadly, the lights were off again, it tripped. I'm wondering if I should remove my "portable gfi" maybe that is what is causing it? I have no idea how to fix this situation sadly.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 14, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Awesome, I think I'll try that today. Thanks man
> 
> 
> sadly, the lights were off again, it tripped. I'm wondering if I should remove my "portable gfi" maybe that is what is causing it? I have no idea how to fix this situation sadly.


Firstly, good luck with the cloning, but it's really, really easy - you probably did it in second grade where you put a piece of potato into a glass of water - it's the exact same concept.

And as far as the electric goes, I'd much rather have electrical issues as opposed to the "plumbing" issues I'm having right now - if it helps, I know the name of a good electrician


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## tmsculli (Oct 14, 2009)

Haha, I wish I could just get shit done in this house, but I can't. I seriously did plan on doing my own shit, but I couldn't because the house was built in a way that reaps zero ability to expand and improve. I will have to figure out something.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 14, 2009)

AWESOME SCRoG!! After seeing your technique up close, i think i'm going scrog for my DIY tent. sadly that grow won't start till January it looks like :/ , i'm waiting till after the holidays so my girl doesnt go unattended for 3-4 days at a time in november and december. looking VERY good and very healthy. cloning is a snap by the way, i had 100% success rate my first time out with NO rooting hormone. just a couple drops of superthrive in the res (and i probably didn't need it) i cloned in AeroGarden (which is my recommended method if you have the funds and the means) it took me about 2 weeks before i saw roots, what i call "pre-roots" or the little white nubs of where a root is going to be showed up around day 8 or 9. best of luck to you!

Happy Growing!

Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 14, 2009)

Thanks for checking up on me shack, the kind words are always appreciated. Yea, the SCROG seems to be working well, although I am being seemingly pessimistic about it at this point. I have a bit of a holiday vacation issue too, so hopefully I can get it all done before then. I can't wait to see what it all comes together like considering you are probably going crazy designing and thinking and crafting etc haha. 4 months of pure thought and creation time could do amazing things to a grow setup haha.


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## tmsculli (Oct 14, 2009)

So I found two really perfect containers for my clones. I'll get pictures soon, but probably not tonight. I just took two cuttings, dipped them in some clonex and chucked them in the rockwool. We'll see how all that goes I suppose.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 14, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> So I found two really perfect containers for my clones. I'll get pictures soon, but probably not tonight. I just took two cuttings, dipped them in some clonex and chucked them in the rockwool. We'll see how all that goes I suppose.


you remembered to soak your rockwool first, right? that is why i haven't (yet) bothered with rockwool, rapid rooters/jiffy pellets are pH balanced and ready to go.

i have to agree about the 4 months.. my original design i envisioned is already changing!! i'm starting with a shelf unit, so i can easily add in an extra shelf for my screen. it should be a seriously delicious cab given the amount of time i have to plan haha.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 14, 2009)

Yea shack I did soak them in 5.5 before hand for a while.

Thanks for making sure though good sir. I am sure it's going to keep on changing, designing shit is half the fun.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 14, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Yea shack I did soak them in 5.5 before hand for a while.
> 
> Thanks for making sure though good sir. I am sure it's going to keep on changing, designing shit is half the fun.


I'll be sure to read back to pick up what I've missed, you said you're in flower now? How long was your veg time? That is one of the missing pieces of my SCRoG plan, how long do i veg?? And you opted for LST versus topping for the SCRoG?


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 14, 2009)

Alright.. haha i've done my reading!! I may set myself up for a two chamber tent! haha i doubt it, but i'm considering a top area for mother and clones and then the lower area i have setup up as grow/flower space, and re-purpose it as a flowering chamber. i could flower at least two small clones, topped and SOG.. hmm.. . . i may repost this in my own thread! 

killer work man, very "thought-provoking" 

+rep!


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 15, 2009)

Thanks shack, sorry I couldn't answer your questions before you had to dig for them. 

I will agree that this thread is confusing though. The problem is that I am only actually growing One Snow White, all the other 4 died. The Snow white is my mother which has been vegging now for 46 days. The 3 plants that are SCROGed up were all bagseed that I planted after I had my mother set and the other seedlings (snow white) had died. They vegged for exactly 3 weeks (21 days) before flipping them to flower. They have been flowering now for 10 days. I did not originally plan on the SCROG, so I topped all of them. The mother and the little ones all have vertical limitations so i decided to top them. 

I'm glad you find this thought provoking, because it beats on my brain all the time too. I have just made so many changes and done so many things that there are too many possible ideas. I really can't wait for 2 more years so I can be out on my own and not have to worry about stealth as much. I want to let my creativity and skills connect and make some serious stuff happen.

On another note, The clones I took yesterday don't look all that great to be honest. One looks okay, and the other looks super droopy. I opened up the containers and let them chill for a bit before putting them back under the lights. I'm not even sure that I took great cuttings, but I tried to do the best from what I have learned.

I am currently uploading pics of the clones, and the little ones in the scrog.


That being said, I think that I might finally be seeing some sex signs. I think that I have 1 male, but I am not positive. It just seems to have 2 little bumps that I haven't seen on the other plants. I keep trying to compare it to my mother plant, since she is fem, but that doesn't help much because she was not put into flower at all.f


Pics are on their way up shortly, hopefully you guys can give me some pointers!

How long vegging should be is debated, and I personally think it just depends on how tall of plants you can have. I think that the plants (correct me if I'm wrong) grow from 3 to 4 times the size they are when they start flowering. Most people will say to let them veg at least two weeks just to make sure that you have solid roots and a good stable plant. I think I agree with that. The only reason that I flowered so late is because I physically didn't know how I was going to go about doing it haha.


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## tmsculli (Oct 15, 2009)

Okay here we go:



Decent clone






Clone dome






Sad clone










Now to the SCROG







See that little bump? This is my male I think ^


Here are just some other ones













































How does everything look so far guys?


Also, I think I might be nute-nuking my mother. She has some fancy looking speckling of light color on the top leaves, what does that mean? I'll grab a picture for you guys in a second


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 15, 2009)

its still a LITTLE early to sex, its 50/50 from what i can see.. what you think are males, could be females that haven't grown their hairs yet. in my experience, you check on your plants one day and BAM! there are hairs EVERYWHERE. you will definitely know at that point. from what i can see, i'm guessing female. also your clones look fine, they look droopy for a few days as they struggle to develop roots. just remember to let them breathe, if the leaves are consistently in a humid environment then they have no real need to push for roots. make sense? rooting is a bit of a struggle so don't be afraid to let them struggle a bit.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 15, 2009)

THanks for clearing that up shack. That is why I definitely wanted to get some other opinions on it before I went pulling it. I'll just keep on waiting and seeing I suppose, no harm to me =]

As far as the clones go that is good ot know too. Sadly since I can't get to the veg area without ruining the flower area, I won't be able to get into there and let them breath during the night cycle. If only being able to do it once or twice while the other ones are on day cycle isn't going to be enough then I will have to move them and figure something else out.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 15, 2009)

hmmph... when i say let them breathe... i just mean to slip the humidity domes off for a bit.. not long 10 minutes... 15.... hour if you got it. wherever they are with the domes, leave em there and slip off the dome. that's all i meant by "breathe"


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 15, 2009)

Yea, that's what I was talking about too, I just wasn't sure how often i was going to have to do that. Thanks man, you are giving me some hope for these haha.


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## Retikx (Oct 16, 2009)

Cool setup, id remove the image of your finger print though.

Just a thought.


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## tmsculli (Oct 16, 2009)

Retikx, thanks for taking a look, but I think I'll be alright. 


Shack, clones look like shit haha, I think I may need to take a different route.


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## purpdaddy (Oct 16, 2009)

supercropping will also keep them low too.I HIGHLY recommend that and toppng..its a must to have a nice yeild.
Look into it man...seems like it wouldnt work but its encourages lower growth like topping does..where you got sum of the tie straps at,,u can supprcrop there.


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## tmsculli (Oct 16, 2009)

Well I am using tying instead of weaving because the plastic squares are not as friendly on the plants. The zip ties are just my replacement for string and actually, I like them better I think. I can loosely tie something down about half way without harming it and then by the next day, the plant is used to it. I can tighten the zip tie and bring it down completely. 


I will look into supercropping though and see what that is all about.

Clones are dead, haha they flopped over and broke in half. I am not comfortable growing them in there, I need to figure something else out. Also, I have been thinking about time in this house. This little grow should be done by mid december which is perfect because I leave for a week in canada in january. When I get back, I was thinking about just flowering out my mother completely. I know this sounds kinda stupid, but I have to move out May 31, and moving this shit around is not going to be easy I will definitely clip some clones and move them, but I refuse to move a mother around haha. I will have to remove the top shelf and let her grow up, but that thing would flower out a beast.


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 16, 2009)

Those clone have too many leafs on buddy, if you have all them leaf's then the clone has to work really hard to take enough water to feed them.

Another trick when cloning is to cut the leaf's in half so there is less to feed but still enough for photosynthesis.

Have you thought about sticking the cutting straight into bubbling fresh water and leaving it, might be a thought. Get a airstone and a sandwich box and bubble some water with the clones poking through the lid.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 16, 2009)

good call craig! when cloning the only leaves you really should leave intact are the top set, and those like craig said should be trimmed in half


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 16, 2009)

See I couldn't find anyhting like that guys. All the branches I saw were single big leaves or little bud trees like what I cut. I did hear about the leaf cutting and I definitely should have done that. Craig, I don't quite understand what you are talking about with the shoe box bubbler. I do have a 5 gallon bucket that I think I may get bubbling for them and rig up some lights for them


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 17, 2009)

Not a 5 gallon, i am just on about a small tupa wear box that you put things in and put in refrigerator. Just a small box of bubbleing water. 

With regards to finding something like what we are talking about with the clones, just get a clone a trim the excess off. Leave the top leaf's.


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## tmsculli (Oct 17, 2009)

Okay Craig, that makes sense now. I can probably splice off of the air pump and get some bubbling in a tupperware thing for sure. Thanks man, i also may run to the grocery store and get one of those ones that holds turkeys and shit. It is thinner plastic and has a lid so It can be the humidity dome too.


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## tmsculli (Oct 17, 2009)

Alright, well I whipped something up and took some new cuts, we'll see how it works haha. I'll get pictures up after my camera is done charging


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 17, 2009)

Good luck buddy, let me know how the cloning goes.

My white widow has come and in the rockwool i will start a thread as soon as i have finished the grow room setup.


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## tmsculli (Oct 17, 2009)

Sounds good man, keep us posted!

I just used a little Gladware container, put two square holes in the top for the rock wool, put some water in it and ran a single air stone into it.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 17, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Sounds good man, keep us posted!
> 
> I just used a little Gladware container, put two square holes in the top for the rock wool, put some water in it and ran a single air stone into it.


You honestly don't need the rockwool for cloning, and will probably make things a little more difficult if you have another failure, because you'll be introducing another variable into the mix (the wetness of the rockwool).

Honestly, all you need is for some bubbling water and the splashes from said bubbling water to "agitate" the stems of the cuttings, and in about five to seven days you'll see little "nubbies" coming off of them.

As Craig said, you need to remove the excess leaves, as the plant does not photosynthesize until it starts growing roots.

Other than that, some bubbling water with the stems getting misted gets it done every time.

Good luck kiddo.


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 18, 2009)

Am with bob, you should have just drilled some hole's for the stem's to poke through.


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## tmsculli (Oct 18, 2009)

Just killed another set of clones. I don't like where and how I am doing it at all. It's too thrown together and not somewhere I can watch it and take care of it. I don't think I'm going to fuck with cloning until these are done because I don't have anywhere to put them. I have to be logical. I seriously just do not have the room or capacity on other levels to grow clones right now.


On another sad note...Houston....we have balls.


That one that I smelled male on a few days ago has some pretty nice balls. I mean, those things are lookiing good. Just kidding, that's gross. But seriously, neither my mother or the other plants have anything like them, so I am pretty sure I can conclude its a male. I did take a picture that I can show you guys that is a clear ball. I guess that means I have to untie and pull him outta there huh? It's a shame because that was the runt the whole time out of the three haha.


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## tmsculli (Oct 18, 2009)

Balls Balls Balls



























Balls Deep


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## tmsculli (Oct 18, 2009)

I just want at least one person to reassure me that those are indeed balls and this is a male plant before I rip him up. Until then, it's study time.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 18, 2009)

eh... looks like it brotha. sorry! (wait for another opinion i'm slightly on the fence)


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 18, 2009)

Is that really fencable? I spotted it the first time I posted pics and it just keeps getting mroe apparent to me. I think the more convincing thing to me is that my fem seed mother and the the other two plants have nothing like it. That being said, I still don't have any hairs. I'll wait for some more votes:


Man: 1
Fence: 1 
Female: 0


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## ReefersMcNasty (Oct 18, 2009)

i've only done one outdoor grow but it looks like the 3 males i got.


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## diggitydank420 (Oct 18, 2009)

Dude!!!!

DON'T PULL THAT PLANT YET!!! When you see multiple "balls" then you *know* it is a male. 

I seriously think everyone worries too much about pulling males out so early. I have grown males out on purpose before and pollen is not an issue for at least two weeks after showing its sex.

Don't do until you know for a FACT that it is a male.


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## tmsculli (Oct 18, 2009)

Yea, diggity, I was thinking the same thing to be honest. It's not worth the possibility of being wrong, you know? For all I know that plant could just be showing sex sooner or possibly in a more odd way than the other ones. I don't really lose anything from keeping it there until I see a sack and some balls. hahaha


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## Knickers (Oct 19, 2009)

Looks like a male but you could wait a little longer.


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 19, 2009)

I made a right balls on my last grow by pulling too earlly and someone then noticed a pistel after the deed was done. That ball could shoot pistels out of the middle, leave it a bit longer.


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## Bob Smith (Oct 19, 2009)

Almost assuredly a male, but there's no opportunity cost to let it go another week to make sure.

I'll take bets if anyone's interested, though.


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## tmsculli (Oct 19, 2009)

Haha, Bob, opportunity cost, you would =P

Yea, it's definitely a guy, thing is covered in balls right now haha. Still not pulling it yet though because I still haven't seen any hairs from the other ones.


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## tmsculli (Oct 20, 2009)

Hope everyone is doing well today. I just want to address a few things that may be starting to show their ugly head right about now.


For the little ones:

Today is day 15 of Flower for them and I still have yet to see any hairs. I do have the one plant that is surely chok' ful o' balls at the moment, but I am leaving him in for a bit just to make sure. I don't see any signs of sex, or anything else. I just wanted to double check and make sure I am doing this right. I know this is the worst question that I have ever asked on here, but am I doing the SCROG correctly? The buds grow from the various colas correct? Upon bending and tying, you allow sunlight to penetrate to the lower levels and have growth at each branch break. This is kind of like topping where the two smaller sites under the topped cola grow out. Now, these new growths are where the bud is going to grow correct? I feel so stupid asking that question, but I just want reassurance on that haha. I have many successful little "sprouts" you could call them from nodes all up and down the branches of these plants, but I wanted to make sure that this is what I am supposed to be doing. Also, I am going to change their nutes today and put them onto the nute levels for the 3rd week of flowering. Finally, for my flowering plants, I currently have two 65 real watt (300 equivalent) 6500k cfls, two 42 real watt (150 equivalent) 2700k cfls, and one 13W 3500k cfl. I know that the 3500k is not really that beneficial, but my other 2700k bulbs died. Is this ratio enough for these plants? I am thinking that I need to get more 2700k bulbs in there, but I am not sure how much of the 6500k I should be sacrificing. I could make it all 2700k, but I know that you are supposed to have a mixed spectrum.


On to the mother:

She is fine for the most part, but a little bit cramped. I know that you can trim and prune mothers and I have read about it quite a bit, but I'm not sure if I should do it or not. Also, height is going to start being an issue with her. Do you just continuously top all of the colas to keep the plant low, or is this going to cause too many branches to form and actually make it taller. It is a very indica plant, and she is nice and squatty because I kept lighting so close. Maybe she won't be growing too much higher? She is on day 51 of vegging.

I am going to post some pics up in a bit. Let me know if you guys have any thoughts on the issues noted above.

Thanks guys


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## tmsculli (Oct 20, 2009)

Ooops, good thing I checked, the "early flowering stage" is 1-3 weeks, so I still have another week at this nutrient level. I am not exactly sure how to top it all off though, so I may just see how well they survive this next week without a change.


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## tmsculli (Oct 20, 2009)

So I just deleted my photobucket account. I kept getting errors that I have never seen before and I freaked out. My mind could only go to the thoughts that someone has realized I post pictures of marijuana growing every day or something. So, now I need to figure out how to get RIUs uploader to work for me because it never has before.


*Ah, okay, so my pictures are too large in size and file-size by astronomical amounts. I like the HD and large pictures though, so I am just going to upload elsewhere.


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## tmsculli (Oct 20, 2009)

success
Some random SCROG shots of it filling in





















Balls

















here is my current lighting situation for flowering






Porn


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## tmsculli (Oct 20, 2009)

Sorry for so many posts today guys, but I just have a lot on my mind. I think I just may have thought up a great place and way I suppose to start some of these clones. 


I have the original 5 gallon bucket that has the big hole in the bottom that I never use. I also have a lid for a 5 gallon bucket with some big net pot holes in it that does not get used.

Now, if you look back a bit, you will see the clear plastic cylinders I tried to clone in last time. I really like them and I think that they will be beneficial with this too. I found out that the two cylinders fit in the bucket very easily next to each other with plenty of surrounding room.

Someone mentioned recently that cloning directly into the hydroton works really well too. I am thinking about trying this, but a bit differently. I want to use Net pots filled with hydroton as my holders, but they wont be hanging in anything. They will be sitting in the bottom of the bucket. This just allows me to try the hydroton method without having a bubble system going. Also, they stand up much better than just a piece of rockwool does. 


Alright, so lets try and paint a little picture for you guys.


5 gallon bucket, completely empty. 2 net pots filled with hydroton are placed on top of the small white screw on lids for the clear cylinders. The cutting is placed inside the hydroton, and the cylinder is screwed into the base. That right there is a solid humidity dome. Now, I need the final step in getting it humid in there. Those holes in the bucket lid are perfect. I am going to lay a power strip across the top with the outlets facing down. Two of them line up with the holes very well. I then plan on taking 2 of my cfls, strapping them up to that and letting her rip. It all comes apart very easily and I don't need to get more room in my closet for it because it's stealth. 


So, will this work? I know that many people have suggested that I use a bubble system, but I just can't afford that set up right now. This is all stuff that I have laying around the house and I feel like it will work. 

What do you guys think?


Alright, here are some pics of what I threw together:

































I have one of my 65W 6500k CFLs in there. Is that too much? I have it running right now to see how hot everything gets. All of the other bulbs that I have are not "effective" spectrums and not very large. Damn all you people at work, I want to make sure this is okay because I am so antsy! =P

hmm impatient? Time for a bowl.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 20, 2009)

wish i had more to say at this time. i'm still here and watching. screen looks good! my understanding of SCRoG is that all of those nodes you expose to the light grow up as tops and essentially cover your screen in mini-colas. it would be interesting to give the screen the once over and top all those newly formed nodes.. but why chance it your first time out? what do you think?


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 20, 2009)

Shack, I'm so stoned that I just pictured you sitting in a ballin' ass lounge chair "watching" my grow, smokin', with nothing really to say haha. 

But seriously, I think topping the small points would be very interesting. That is actually a crazy concept. I am getting some of the new growth chutes that are looking like small original branches. I may start tying them down haha.

That would be a really interesting comparison to do. For half a screen top as many as you can, and the other you leave it.


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## JN811 (Oct 20, 2009)

Hey tmsculli, Just went through your thread, very nice job! I've also done a ton of research and am about to start my first grow. Was wondering how big your grow box is and how many plants you got under that SCRog. I have a pretty small closet, about 2 1/2 width by 5 1/2 length and trying to figure out how many plants I can fit in that space and if I should build a box or not. I bought a 400 watt Hps. BTW I think I'm going to go with soil for this grow just because I want it to be succesful. o yea just wanted to add the breeds of seeds are 1 ak48 and 6 Ice. All input welcome, thanks


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 20, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Shack, I'm so stoned that I just pictured you sitting in a ballin' ass lounge chair "watching" my grow, smokin', with nothing really to say haha.
> 
> But seriously, I think topping the small points would be very interesting. That is actually a crazy concept. I am getting some of the new growth chutes that are looking like small original branches. I may start tying them down haha.
> 
> That would be a really interesting comparison to do. For half a screen top as many as you can, and the other you leave it.


haha well it's a very large computer desk chair with a worn out cushion. BUT CLOSE!

TOP 'EM! my only concern is they won't have enough time to recover from the topping and would be too small as they start to flower. even though there are two tops, both are small they aren't heavy yielders, may hurt your harvest. at least consider topping two or three, you have a whole screen! if they grow out big and sturdy like the non topped colas, it might be a worthy cause. (haha by the way, i'm making you test this theory before i start my own grow.. DO IT! just fuckin around man, i smoked a little myself haha)


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 21, 2009)

JN811 - Thanks for stopping in man. I have my single mother plant in a box that is roughly 2'x2'x4' and the remaining closet area is roughly 4'x2'x4'. Flowering I have 3 plants under the SCROG. I smoked some siiick ICE the other day, have fun with that one man, It'll toss you on your ass for a bit.

Shack, maybe I'll take a different approach. Instead of topping the well growing ones, ill top like 3 of the smaller ones and see what happens. The few big growing ones I want to leave be because after tossing all this time and money in here, I needs me some bud!


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## tmsculli (Oct 21, 2009)

SHAAAAAACK


Dude, I think I have an idea. I just took a look at them and noticed that some of the growths....bud spots I guess?....are getting massive and look like full branches. I was thinking about continuing to top the end of the plant, like normal topping. Even though they are all tied down, I would still benefit from "topping" the plant. It will cause two more colas to form per each end. I think that this may be more effective than topping the independent growth chutes because the plant grows more length wise than those fill in.

You agree maybe?

Either way, I'm definitely down to top something for a bit of a comparison, but it will need to be done damn soon, like today. I just want some feedback on it before I do it.


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## tmsculli (Oct 21, 2009)

Oh, and I am pulling the male right now. He is definitely balls deep and is taking up valuable screen space. His big leaves are covering growth chutes that need not be covered.


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## tmsculli (Oct 21, 2009)

Alright, so the above ground is all clean, and I'm glad I did it, I know how somewhere to navigate with these branches. Sad this is they are all root locked and tangled so hard. I am leaving the chopped stalk and roots in there. I am afraid of damaging the females. Should I cut them from the stalk or just leave them be? It will all be cleaned out in december after harvest, do you think it can wait?


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 21, 2009)

EEK! you might be alright and you might not be. the stalk could stay viable and you'd need to keep trimming to keep pollen sacs out of the grow room. or the stalk could die and you have no problems, or the stalk could die and the roots die, and suddenly the roots are rotting in your res and spreading bacteria... risky business.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 21, 2009)

Yea man, I'm not really sure what to do about it. I'll just keep a close eye on it and see how it goes I guess. I had to chop it though, the sacks were getting really large with many balls per stalk. 


On a better note, I decided to try out my new cloning system for shits and giggles. I just took two cuttings and started it up. I'm thinking that I keep taking too small of cuttings, but we'll see.


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## masterd (Oct 21, 2009)

IMHO, cut the male roots out, all of them, the females shouldnt stress to much about it, its better than loosing them to root rot


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## tmsculli (Oct 21, 2009)

Yea, I really need to figure out exactly what to do. I definitely don't want to hurt the other two plants though. I am going to have to do some more research. Also, when the roots start to die, I can just remove them very carefully and pay attention to it a lot.


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## masterd (Oct 21, 2009)

its not as easy as it sounds, the roots dont mind being chopped, believe me worked with all sorts of plants for a long time, itll just take a day or 2 for the roots to catch up before the growth on top starts up(in hydro, soil takes a bit longer)


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## tmsculli (Oct 21, 2009)

Yea, I believe you man, I do...I'm just indecisive as fuck haha. I will most likely end up doing it because I don't think I have any other choice


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## tmsculli (Oct 21, 2009)

Dang guys, I have asked a shit ton of questions and done a bunch of stuff in the past few days with little replies =/

Those who have, I appreciate it, even if you are just loungin =P 

I knew I shouldn't have put this damn journal in the proper place haha, they never get traffic there. 

I have been thinking though. Am I looking a little skimpy for starting week 3 of flowering? I have seen a bunch of grows that by this time have masses of hairs and some upward growth of the bud. I don't see anything as of now. First off, if you think everything is fine, that's good, but if you don't, any ideas on how I can change it up to fix it?


bored as shit.


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## JN811 (Oct 21, 2009)

thanks a lot man, ill check in from time to time and let you know how their doing


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## tmsculli (Oct 21, 2009)

Sounds good brother


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## masterd (Oct 22, 2009)

yeah by week 3 they should have REALLY shown sex, like u said fair few pistils and what not, but last yr 1 had 2 plants that didnt show any pistils for about 4 weeks then within a day or so of my freak out wondering what was going on they had an outburst of pistils, i had 3 other plants of the same seed and they just grew normal, hope its all good and theyre just "late bloomers" 

is it absolutely dark in there at night?


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## tmsculli (Oct 22, 2009)

Yea, I was thinking that it may not be 100% dark, but it has to be because that male showed sex and grew it's sexual parts very well and quickly. I may try to throw some more shit together to make it even more dark although I'm pretty sure it is already pitch in there.


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## tmsculli (Oct 22, 2009)

So I got some more of the black tarp and covered up anywhere else I could fathom a sliver of light coming out of. I'm hoping that this will make a difference and it will work out.


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## Knickers (Oct 22, 2009)

Take some more close up HD pics of the node points and post so it can be checked out maybe?


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## tmsculli (Oct 23, 2009)

Knickers, good call I will go do that right now. LIke I said I blacked it out pretty intensely last night, I wonder if there have been any significant changes. Pictures in a minute.


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## tmsculli (Oct 23, 2009)

Nice, so I just checked on them and whether it just happened to happen over night, or that I finally got it ark enough in there, I definitely have some hairs. Also, the stems are starting to get so thick that I am almost breaking off some important pieces trying to bend them and tie them down. I think I am going to be done tying them now and just let them grow. I have plenty of bud points and I hope they will all grow up nicely. Pictures are uploading, they should be up soon. Oh, also, the blackout tarp I used also kept in a bit more of the heat so the temps were actually closer to correct than usual. At night the temps definitely dip a bit, so hopefully this will keep them more to where they should be.


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## tmsculli (Oct 23, 2009)

Here you go. This is day... 18 of Flower



















































































Yea, and like I said, I am done bending, I'm not risking breaking some serious bud spots. My lights can go up plenty high. I am just going to let them go from now on. I will probably still move fan leaves out of the way from blocking other buds etc, but not much more than that.


How's it look?


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## tmsculli (Oct 23, 2009)

Shit, when I closed down my old account I fucked up alllllllll the pictures from the previous pages. I still have them, but none of them are uploaded. Damnit.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 23, 2009)

looking gooooood really nice screen!! i'd say you more or less done training. remember the guys that want to to break on you, just coax them little at a time, each day bring them down a little bit more. don't forget to trim the big fan leaves shading bud sites. your discretion, lop 'em off completely, or the cut each blade in half so they cast quite as much shadow. 
nicely done my friend!


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 23, 2009)

Wow, Shack, I have never thought of trimming the leaves. I didn't know that was an option I suppose. I have been just shoving them down under the screen. I will definitely get in there and trim it up tomorrow.

Thanks man


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 23, 2009)

don't get too trim happy. its best to trim 50% of a leaf rather than the whole thing. it's a plant after all and you need the leaf surface to conduct photosynthesis.
Stop by my DIY thread.. the tent is complete!!! (well pics up in like 15 minutes.. but you will see them soon enough!)


Shack


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## Knickers (Oct 23, 2009)

Looking good mate! I wouldn't be scared to continue training a bit more either.


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## tmsculli (Oct 24, 2009)

Damn Shack, I may have just fucked up pretty hard. I'll be honest, I almost trimmed all of the fan leaves off. Now, I did realize that they needed it for photosynthesis, so I didn't trim the small sets or many of the medium sets. I think I should still be fine, or at least I hope =/


I'll check on that right now!


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## tmsculli (Oct 24, 2009)

Looking at it again after doing it, I think I really did trim too much. Here are some pictures of the aftermath. It looks like I am about to harvest there are so few leaves =[ FUCK.
















































You guys think I'll be alright?


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## Knickers (Oct 24, 2009)

Fuck thats too much :/ Fingers crossed I guess... I have no idea if they will make it?


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 24, 2009)

youre on day or week what of flower? you have this working to your advantage, at this stage they start to stretch, and part of that stretch is new leaf growth. so leave it be, and it should actually fill in appropriately, appropriate meaning your bud sites have the most leaf, so those should in theory grow tall above the new fan leaf development.


Shack


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## Knickers (Oct 24, 2009)

Well that certainly sounds good Shak! Hopefuly at the worse it will just stunt their growth for a little bit.


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## tmsculli (Oct 24, 2009)

Shack, I was actually thinking the exact same thing at the time of trimming. Kind of that it needs the light, and the only leaves available to process it are those which are going to bud. I fucking hope that works too man. Knickers, don't scare me like that! =P haha

Hopefully it still looks happy tomorrow.

Oh, and today is day 19 of flowering.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 24, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Shack, I was actually thinking the exact same thing at the time of trimming. Kind of that it needs the light, and the only leaves available to process it are those which are going to bud. I fucking hope that works too man. Knickers, don't scare me like that! =P haha
> 
> Hopefully it still looks happy tomorrow.
> 
> Oh, and today is day 19 of flowering.


Day 19 and they just started showing female pre-flowers?? You have a good bit of stretch coming your way. No worries, you should do just fine. My last grow stretched about 6-7" in just the second week and about another 4" or 5" the next week. I had to LST the two shoots to fit it under my light! I was full sativa though, yours look strongly indica, expect just a little less than that for stretch. You should be alright.. JUST NO MORE TRIMMING! once your screen fills out up top, feel free to pinch off fan leaves under the screen, they'll just rob everything up top thats actually exposed to the light. BUT!! HOLD OFF ON TRIMMING THOSE!! let the plant use those as energy stores and in a week or so as they start to look limp and discolored, trim those. Make sense??


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 24, 2009)

Yea, thanks Shack. Yea. I think that I may have had a small light leak that stopped them from really getting into some strong flowering. Oddly the male was in the exact same conditions and showed perfect preflowers earlier than the ladies did. Regardless, I understand... no more trimming. haha. I think that I will be fine. The independent chutes are just going to have to really on their respective fan leaves to get any light for em. They are pretty squatty though, definitely indica dominant. I can't want to flower some Snow White clones, that mother is fucking squatty as hell.


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## diggitydank420 (Oct 24, 2009)

Trim NOTHING ELSE. Let your plant grow. The plant will eat the leaves and they will fall off on their own. Trust me on this.


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## tmsculli (Oct 25, 2009)

I promise, no more trimming haha. Honestly, it looks like it's doing well. I am just about to switch to week 4 nutrient levels for them.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 25, 2009)

you know an extra dose of seedling strength nutrient added to your week 4 bloom nutrient might help the plant recover a little bit. give the extra "umpf" it needs to recover. i could be wrong about this, so wait for a second opinion, i just think given the state its not a HORRIBLE idea.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 25, 2009)

seedling strength meaning some additional "Grow" nutrients? the 1st of the three parts that is.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 25, 2009)

yeah thats what i was suggesting. you're using the FloraSeries? seedling strength according to your feed chart of the FloraGro (if that's what you're using) in addition to whatever you're mixing up for your bloom nutrients. no more than seedling strength though, just wanting to give the plant what it needs to get some healthy green growth to come back, really won't take much.


Shack


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## bloatedcraig (Oct 25, 2009)

do you struggle to keep your ph under control. Mine seems to be creeping up all the time and it's getting on my tit's.


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## tmsculli (Oct 26, 2009)

Shack, I am using Humboldt nutrients, besides that I know nothing to be honest. If they don't look like we are seeing some progress tomorrow I will probably do that and add some more in there.

Craig, I don't have problems keeping my ph under control at all. I can go a few days even without needing to adjust it. How is everything going for you?


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## tmsculli (Oct 26, 2009)

Fuck, I just woke up with a bad gut feeling and it was right. There was a "night" phase tonight for my girls, they were drooping downwards, but it wasn't a light leak free time. I got interrupted earlier by a friend and had to get out quickly and then I had to go to work. I guess I just forgot to seal it up all the way. I ran in there are got it sealed up so I guess the next 4 hrs will go nicely.

I am so stoned but I can't fall back asleep.


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## tmsculli (Oct 26, 2009)

So that was a little scare I had last night, but there was definitely still some good bud development from yesterday to today. I am just about to take some pictures, because I have something I want to ask. The main colas are budding up nicely, but most of the chutes along the branches aren't growing as much and most don't even have hairs yet. Pictures will be up very shortly.

Alright, so my camera is charging, sorry about the wait with that, but I did do some work to my ladies. Today is Day 57 of vegging for my Snow White Mother. I have kind of neglected her a bit while I have been focusing on the flowering ladies. I regret doing this because I watched some deficiencies form and didn't act upon them. Well, today I did finally. It wasn't too intense of neglect, she was on the same nutes for two and a half weeks, I usually change nutes once a week. So I got her a new dose and some fresh water and hopefully she will bounce back a bit. I also topped her colas and did some side trimming because she is just too damn gigantic haha. 

The little ladies actually look really good. The foliage growth has increased a lot and it doesn't look like I fucked up as bad as we had thought. One sad thing did happen though, one of the stronger budding colas did get broken off accidentally, but that just means that SHACK!!! the experiment begins! hahaha So now I have a freshly topped flowering stem and I think it may have happened another place too. I am praying that we can get some fast growth and get to getting. Also, I was thinking that I may have to keep them flowering longer because of the slow start with it, is that probably true? Meaning that I am just now seeing hairs all over, and some spots are still missing them. I am on day 21 of flowering. I did start them on their next phase of flowering nutrients yesterday that they will be at until the end with flushing etc.

Going to see if I can get the camera alive enough to take a few shots real fast.


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## tmsculli (Oct 26, 2009)

Alright, here are the little ladies. Day 21 of Flowering:




















































And here is my Snow White Mother, Day 57 for her:

















Sadly she's not looking all that pretty. She has some light burn from the other day so I raised them and topped a bunch like I was talking about earlier. Also, she has had that speckling for a while now and again, I know I should have done something about it sooner, but I didn't. Regardless, everything should be good now. I am excited to see her recover. 




Also, here is some more good news. I am not really all that broke anymore haha. That means that I will be making a small bubble cloner within the next few days to get this Snow White show on the road. 


Haven't heard from a lot of the earlier journal followers in a long time, you guys still alive? Roseman? Purp?


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 26, 2009)

looks like a good recovery there on the screen! BADASS!!! lol I had a feeling there was a lot of life left in those girls. I'm sure the root systems are massive on those ladies, almost "duh" moment that they would recover when you consider that. DWC is pretty sweet, growth rate is ridiculous, thats part of the reason i'm moving to soil haha. looking to see if the slightly slower growth rate of soil does better with CFL.

oh and purp hasn't even been up on his own thread for a bit either. who knows what the deal is.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 26, 2009)

Yea Shack I was really excited about it too. I hope that my little night cycle issue last night didn't shaft anything too badly. I wish there was an easier way to get that closet completely blacked out, but there isn't. I can get it blacked out, but it requires a lot of things that take a long time to set up and hang etc. I will definitely have to come up with a better idea for it in the future.

But yea, the growth on it looks pretty promising I think


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## tmsculli (Oct 26, 2009)

Alright, so I found a tupperware container that I am going to turn into my little bubble cloner. I do have a question for you guys though. I was pretty sure that I have seen threads before showing clones just hanging into a DWC cloning system and working. These clones were cut and then put in the lid of the container using neoprene collars, and the water level was about 1" below the stem. The bubbles burst water blah blah. Now, can I do this with no neoprene collars? I have this container, and I just screwed 6 1/4" holes in the lid. I was thinking that I could cut cardboard pieces with a slit into the center, and make it a bit wider in the center. Will this work? So basically, the stem is in the hole, and the cardboard cutout holds it there.


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## Knickers (Oct 26, 2009)

Don't use cardboard as it can breed mold and fungus. Use polystyrene cut into circles a timcy bit wider than the netpots so they have a tight fit. Cut I line from the outside half way through and widen the end slightly making a middle hole in the disk. Stretch it open and slide your cuttings in from the side. It's relatively waterproof, reflects light, and is largel sterile.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 26, 2009)

knickers got that one spot on. also be careful with your 1/4" holes in the lid. picture it, the stem hangs through the hole, cool that works. then roots develop when it comes time to pull it out of the cloner, you can EASILY damage the roots, or possibly have too much root mass (fingers crossed lol) to pull through such a small hole. rely on the collar to hold your cutting in place, not the hole in the lid. make your holes slightly smaller than your collars.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 26, 2009)

True. Well, the set up didn't work anyway. I need to get another air pump to use for it. I tried splicing one of the other ones and it lost too much power. I'll just have to buy stuff and build it, no more being cheap.


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## tmsculli (Oct 27, 2009)

Giant touche on that Shack. Sorry, that last post I was the highest I think I have ever been haha. I didn't even remember replying. But yea, the holes would be an issue with the root so that is a good point. I also noticed that the container I was using I think was just too small. The reason that I wanted to use the holes and collars was to avoid needing to use a net pot. The net pots are too large for the container and would defeat the purpose. Basically, they wouldnt be able to hang above the water level because the container was only maybe 4" tall itself. Like I said I will get one of those 3 gallon rubbermaids and another air pump and make a very nice one. Hopefully I can do that this weekend. I have two exams this week so I am going to be a bit busy with that.


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## tmsculli (Oct 27, 2009)

The little ladies have shown some great growth. There are plenty of new leaves and the buds are starting to develop at the chutes too, not just the main colas. I did notice an issue with my mother though. While the ladies are in night mode, she still has her lights going, and she is locked in pretty hard. In order to stop the light leaks, I think I may have been sacrificing some circulation. She looks much better with her new nutes, but I still need to change up some stuff. The vent fan at the top of her box does work well, but with the giant reflector there, I think that much of the heat is just getting trapped and never getting up to the fan. To fix this I am just going to buy a short length of simple ducting and just run it down and hang it just below the reflector to suck up that extra heat. This will definitely work. Intake is also an issue when she is all sealed up. I have 2 fans in the box, but they eventually are just circulating the hot, used air all over the box. The thing is, that if I try to leave open a tiny slit for air to get to the fan, I will have a small light leak. Now, I have an idea to run a tube from behind the main fan in the box, which is on the floor, out of the box, and under the door to get fresh air. I will be able to seal up around it 100% and I think it will keep some better air flow in there.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 27, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Giant touche on that Shack. Sorry, that last post I was the highest I think I have ever been haha. I didn't even remember replying. But yea, the holes would be an issue with the root so that is a good point. I also noticed that the container I was using I think was just too small. The reason that I wanted to use the holes and collars was to avoid needing to use a net pot. The net pots are too large for the container and would defeat the purpose. Basically, they wouldnt be able to hang above the water level because the container was only maybe 4" tall itself. Like I said I will get one of those 3 gallon rubbermaids and another air pump and make a very nice one. Hopefully I can do that this weekend. I have two exams this week so I am going to be a bit busy with that.


this might help you a little my friend... very simple design and can function just as well without netpots, just the neoprene collars. the foam will fit into a hole about 1/4" smaller in diameter than the collar.. net pots are just for well.. i dont know why this guy used net pots lol.

eHow Easy Cloner


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 27, 2009)

LAfreshhh said:


> HI im LAfreshhh an i have a FREE smoke tape coming out 10/30/09 come join the session just drop me you email an ill send you a link to your free copy. thanks peace love unity respect
> 
> [email protected]
> myspace/LAfreshhh
> facebook/LAfreshhh


I DUB THEE SPAM!


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 27, 2009)

Yup, I just reported it. Going to check out that link right now shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 27, 2009)

Shack, I don't get it. I know how to make a cloner, what's special about this one? haha I'm not trying to be rude at all, maybe I am missing what exactly you were trying to point out to me. 


I was trying to avoid buying the collars, but it looks like I am going to have to do it.


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 27, 2009)

lol nothing special... haha just felt like sharing. i really dont know... probably that bowl from earlier spurred me posting that link..  lol



Shack


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## jdinaso1225 (Oct 27, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Hello all
> 
> After months of research, months of preparation, months of building and assembling, today I finally start my first grow.
> 
> ...


u can leave ur seeds soaking or put them in ur rockwool.i let mine soak till i have a root come out.i use rapid rooters instead of rockwool.i soak and sit in the dark for 2-4 days in warm temperature then out them in my rapid rooters and place them in grow media and leave water on them.
good luck and if u want to see photos i will send to u.


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## tmsculli (Oct 27, 2009)

J, I am 60 days deep haha, sprouts are far from my issue sir haha.


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## tmsculli (Oct 28, 2009)

Checked on them earlier today and everything looks good. My little vent tube idea made the box for the mother much cooler so I am glad it worked. The flowering ladies are looking good. They had a slight yellowing to them so I added some more Micro nutrient because it was the highest in Nitrogen. Hopefully that will also help get the smaller chutes to grow more.

Fuck, now I'm studying for 5 hours.

enjoy the world series


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## tmsculli (Oct 29, 2009)

**Crickets**


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## tmsculli (Oct 29, 2009)

So I am realizing that I think I need more lights. I currently have 227 total watts on the two plants. this includes 2 6500k, 2 2700k, and a 4000k bulb. I am afraid of getting fluffy buds so i guess I need to go and buy some more 2700k bulbs. Is it okay to pull those 6500k bulbs? i know you are supposed to cover the entire spectrum the whole time, but I feel like I have way too much 6500k going on in there.

Also, I'm not sure how else to set them up under that hood, I may have to rig some shit up and try and keep it cheap


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 29, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> So I am realizing that I think I need more lights. I currently have 227 total watts on the two plants. this includes 2 6500k, 2 2700k, and a 4000k bulb. I am afraid of getting fluffy buds so i guess I need to go and buy some more 2700k bulbs. Is it okay to pull those 6500k bulbs? i know you are supposed to cover the entire spectrum the whole time, but I feel like I have way too much 6500k going on in there.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure how else to set them up under that hood, I may have to rig some shit up and try and keep it cheap


uh.. i'm drawing a blank... OH RIGHT GOT IT!
thats plenty of light 5 bulbs for the two plants? for sure good.
what you want to do though is emphasize the 2700k. 
you only need like ONE 6500k to really even things out.
that one 6500k adds in some sort of UV effect, and encourages resin production.
(^^that fact has been filtered down so many times before it got to my ears, i'm not really sure what the deal is, i just understand balance the spectrum for better buds)
if you're looking for more answers than i have, research research research!

all i got for now, good luck.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 29, 2009)

Thanks Shack, yea that is what I ended up doing. I went ahead and bought 4 23W 2700k bulbs for $7.98 at the Depot, not bad at all. I also picked up a few more Y splitters. I took out one of the 6500ks and tried to set it all up decently. I have the one 6500k close to the middle laying on it's side. Around it now I have those 4 23W 2700k bulbs and 2 42W 2700k bulbs. I was doing reading and I scared myself that I would ruin my buds. It was only like 17$ total, so hopefully the improvement is pretty good. The glow now is much more red as it should be for flowering. I also lowered the lights down and got them closer to the buds like I had heard recommended in some readings I did. I am hoping for the best. I am just too scared and for some reason I can't tell if I am on the right track with these.

Also, my MOther is becoming a bit of an issue. She is really big and I think she is getting unhappy in that box. I am debating on what to do with her I would love to have her just Veg in the main area of the bathroom, but I'm not sure how I would set up the lighting.

Can't really think of too much. She still has that speckling, and now she has some dark dark leaves, which I know is N overdose. I am going to chuck some more water her way and hope things look up a bit. I'll post pictures in a bit


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 29, 2009)

if you're mom is getting big, just give her a haircut. you don't have to clone EVERYTHING that comes off of her. but if she is taking up the space, trim her up. no harm at all, she's a mom she expects it 


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 29, 2009)

Alright here are my ladies.

This is mammadukes at Day 60























And the Flowering ladies are on day 24 of Flowering

Here is the new flowering lighting situation


























































What do you guys think?


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 29, 2009)

Spaghetti anyone? AWESOME root structure you have there. EVERYTHING looks healthy on those girls, leaf, stem, pistils, and jesus the roots especially!! I see you had some issues with mama bear, no worries, thats a big vigorous plant, balance your pH levels and keep the your nutrient levels in check, i'm sure you'll have no problems. all in all, VERY good looking grow!! (i added some duct work to my tent, to bring temps down... sort of worked, they havent gone up since i added it lol)


Shack


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## tmsculli (Oct 29, 2009)

Thanks for the support Shack. Yea, I'm not exactly sure what her problem is haha, but hopefully Mamma will recover soon. My theory is that she is a fucking brick shit house of a plant and she is not going anywhere. I feel like she may be able to survive nuclear winter haha.


I'm glad you think that my flowering ladies look good. Do I still look a bit behind on flowering for this far in? I feel like it's not a big deal if I'm behind right? It just means that I will have to flower longer?


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 29, 2009)

they are just starting to recover from the "Trimming Disaster of 2009" haha jk bro. That's why they may look "behind", just had to recover from the trim and maybe delayed a little. Now that they have recovered though, the next few days should be very exciting. Should explode with pistils over the next few days. Just keep at it, also that extra bit of nitrogen (grow nutrient) could have confused them a little, next res change go by whatever your feeding schedule prescribes and they should be alright. They have definitely recovered and don't look like they need the extra "grow" nutrient. All things considered you're right on track!


Shack


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## Knickers (Oct 29, 2009)

What Shack said lol. I'm looking forward to some exciting updates!


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Oct 30, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> I'm glad you think that my flowering ladies look good. Do I still look a bit behind on flowering for this far in? I feel like it's not a big deal if I'm behind right? It just means that I will have to flower longer?


these ladies look good man. i would say max they look two weeks behind but that is very much strain an stress dependant. all in all they look good nice lil pistil startin up. just like rusty up there said in the next week or two i bet your gunna see crazy development. im growing nirvana's snow white right now as well. i just hit week 5. i can try and figure out the pic shit if u wanna try to compare. you did the scrog so its not exactly the same mine sit around 40in. but it may give you a sorta idea on how behind you are. from my experience maybe two weeks max and i have a feeling this really is a 8-9 week strain instead of the 9-11 weeks stated.


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Oct 30, 2009)

so in other words im willing to bet you will be done right around the 9 week mark especially with how fast DWC usually is. i had to switch to ebb and flow cuz the roots became too big too fast and it kept my last run at like 28in. finished.


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## tmsculli (Oct 30, 2009)

Shack, it was a disaster, it's all good. Luckily I played God and destroyed them, and then fixed them. They LOVEEEE the new lights. They are perky as hell and a lot of growth over night. 

Smoke, the mother is Snow White, the flowering ladies are bag seed, if you read through the journal (I dare you, so many posts =P) you'll notice I fucked up and killed 4/5 snow white and I just have the one as my mother haha.

Thanks for the kind words though guys, I'm looking forward to them turning around a bit too.


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## tmsculli (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, they are still doing really well, but I think that the SCROG may not have actually been that productive. Regardless how many times I clipped and bent and such, the lower colas are not growing anywhere near the level that the top colas are. Starting to think this is gonna be a lil' baby harvest haha. If the scrog doesn't fill out nicely, then I will definitely be done with it. Actually, I think I may be done with it in general. It's a cool concept, but it's not working how I expected. It also makes it really difficult to do my daily maintenance to them and big momma.


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## Knickers (Oct 31, 2009)

Well I think you knew from the beginning thus was hardly the ideal scrog. You've had to use a pretty difficult screen and have had ups and downs with your plant. Simply having it flowering before the screen is half full is a problem, so anyhing afterwards is a learning experience eh.

I really think you should find some chicken wire and set up a bigger/easier scrog next round, and don't flip to 12/12 until your screen is adequately full. Or do you have plans?


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## tmsculli (Oct 31, 2009)

Well the thing is that the flowering plants are just bag seed. The only reason that I even started growing them is because I was too impatient to wait for my mother to grow so that I could clone from her haha. Now that she is ready, well ready by now, I am in a bit of a situation. I have some dank mother potential, but no cloning regime set up yet. I also didn't even have them grow into the scrog to be honest. I didn't know that is how it was done. They were grown, and I trained them to the scrog as opposed to them growing into it. The biggest thing is that my space is just too small to deal with it. I can literally BARELY get to my mother to work on her because that fucking screen is in the way. That is another reason that I have found myself neglecting my mother; I just physically can't stand the extensive effort needed to even take a ph test. That being said, after these are done, I'm going pure clone. I want to run 4 clones at a time, and I think I may just do the one cola deal. If I get the clones flowering soon enough they shouldn't get all that big. I think I will be satisfied with that instead of scroging again.

Also, I think that my dad is making me stay in this house for my Senior year too. I wanted to get a new place, but he says this one is too cheap and convenient. It's his dollar, so it's his word. That means that I can keep my grows going perpetually for at least a year which is going to be a lot of fun. Basically, come January, once this crop is gone and done with, I will be kicking into a nice Snow White perpetual system that I can hopefully get balls deep into.


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## tmsculli (Oct 31, 2009)

I also noticed today that I am starting to get some speckling and some yellowing around some of the colas. i think that is due to that extra micro nutrient. I am going to do a new dose of nutes tomorrow most likely and try to set them straight.


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## dustbowlio (Oct 31, 2009)

hey there Tmsculli it Looks like your about to be in need of some HEALTHY CLONES. Ive been watchin your grow for some time now maybe we can help each other..cloning is sooo easy... Im where you were on page 1 . I have some of Nirvanas Blue Mystic and a few others, that i havnt started a thread on yet. But I do have Thread on a CLONE from a BUDDED plant that im REVEGGING here at my RIU. theres also some great links and info.. https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/256595-cloning-bud.html Check these out.. I havnt cloned in it yet but the seedlings did great!! An inexpenseve yet Affective investment .. Heres a couple pics of my make do wally world set up for my one clone untill one of these kits got here. http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/propagation-kits-c-83_327.html

hope the best for your grow..


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## dustbowlio (Oct 31, 2009)

ohh And I didnt want to piss up your thread, Ha Ha
 But I was hoping to strike some interest from some of these others that have been following ..


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Oct 31, 2009)

looks like a spammy attempt to hijack a thread lol.


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## dustbowlio (Oct 31, 2009)

SURE IS ha ha ha


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Oct 31, 2009)

hehe it works too! it got me to take a peek. mostly because it showed up in the new post section though


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## tmsculli (Nov 1, 2009)

Not very appreciated brother. Please don't troll around, although I think I like your little clear plastic tub area haha.


Regardless, Day 28 Flower for the ladies and they are loving these new lights. Here are some pictures. The biggest buds are in the way back where I can't get a close up picture































^This is the big one, I can't get a close up shot sadly







What do you guys think?


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## dustbowlio (Nov 1, 2009)

NOT VERY APPRICIATED!!??? I offer my help with the next phase of your grow!!! And thats what i get??? Did you even read anything i said? your a JERK..


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Nov 1, 2009)

now your really not appreciated. haha
any ways lookin good sculli. not too many hairs but it looks like it'll some dense nugs. im excited for you!!!! so when are you gunna clone up some SW's? I'm tellin ya, your gunna love how hairy an crystaly they get!!!


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## dustbowlio (Nov 1, 2009)

Thats OK Im used to it..


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## cruzer101 (Nov 1, 2009)

WOW

OK I will tell ya this, Most people will say you just cut off 1/4 of your yield. You need leaf to create buds. In a scrog you remove some leaf yea. you take the leaf under the screen and all the lower shoots that didnt make it passed the top of the screen.

The leaf above the screen is kept because that leaf is getting light. Now light will penetrate one leaf and still get to the leaf under it but thats it. The leaf under that where there is no light becomes nutrient storage for the plant. It doesnt help the plant at this point but it doesn't hurt either. Later in the grow when the plant does not get what it needs from you it moves the nutrients in the lower leaf to where it needs it. Thats when they turn yellow and die.
So, now you have a better idea of what they do. Cut off the extra and leave some for what they are intended for.

OK, now. all is not lost. I will share something with you.
I had a grow years ago in my yard, I had plants that were just starting to bud and I wanted some smoke for a party i was going to. I stripped all the leaf off one of the plants. all the leaf. I figured it would die but I wanted smoke.

That plant took a while but it came back, the leaf that grew was smaller and the buds larger then the other five plants in the end. I called that one Elephant bud to give you an idea. (this was way before all the strains of today)

So here is what I recommend you do, Look closely at all those ties you made. Some look to small once these start to fill out the stems are going to need more room. Just from looking at the pics I would say they will need twice the room that you left them.

Stretching has stopped. Now you will be growing colas. Do not top anything.

If you still need to remove a male and can see the root system give it a tug, you may be able to pull it out, dont be afraid to get your hands in there and separate them.
If you need to cut one to make it happen cut the living root. It will grow back.
Leave as much as possible but you dont want to leave dead root in there.

Thanks for doing what you did man. I will love to see what happens. I have often though of Elephant man and SCROG but never had the balls to cut it that close.

Oh yea, One last thing. Most monitors are 1028 wide and you need a bit of margin. When you resize your pics dont go over 900 pix wide. That way your journal is more uniform and people dont have that dam scroll bar at the bottom of the page. I crop and then resize. I use the 800 x 600 option makes things much eaiser to read.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 1, 2009)

nothing to say right now, but i'm still here! those pics look good to me bro. just keep at it, and don't stress, when you garden in a negative state of mind you naturally make worse decisions, through neglect or lack of care. when you're positive, you send off those vibes through careful attention to detail. don't sweat it bro, you're just growing a weed in a closet.. just think of the smoke later, learned my lesson from my first grow, don't bring negativity to your grow room.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 1, 2009)

Dustbowlio, I apologize. I meant that if you were trolling, which is what I first figured, it was not appreciated. That information about the cloning that you provided was interesting and did give me a bit more insight into the process. I have a pretty set plan about cloning, but I think that I may take some of what you showed me into consideration. My words get away from me sometimes and I feel bad about it. I'm a full time student and work as a server. I didn't exactly pick the best low-stress to accompany my schooling, but hey, dealers take cash, and that's what serving gets me =P

Smokey, thanks for taking a look buddy. THe hairs are actually getting pretty intense to be honest. I know I'm behind, but I think I'm still doing just fine. As I think we have discovered before, all this means is more time, no negatives really. If I said I was on day 15 of Flower instead of 28 you would all say I was pretty on track haha. I am really really really ready to start my SW clones brother, but as stated above, school runs my life. It is going to give me a fucking piece of paper so I can live a decent life how I see fit, so I keep it as top priority. Exams are hectic and cash is skimping a bit. That being said, I promise that before next weekend I will have an effective, SERIOUS, balls deep cloning effort going on for these ladies. I paid all that money for a named strand that I personally picked, and I'm excited to be chillin on bag seed? haha.

Cruzer, yea I forgot that you didn't see the masacre 09 or whatever the hell Shack called it haha. It was a bold, terrible, move on my part, but it happened. It's funny that you said this though, because I am noticing some pretty big things from these plants after all of that stress. I guess I forgot to post about it, but I did chop, pull and get all the roots etc out from that male. I took Roseman's advice and just cut that shit out. There have been 0 consequences to doing this and it was no hiccup for my growing process. You give me hope with this elephant theory, haha, we will see what happens I guess. I just know that getting that big fucking 6500k out of there and getting a fuck-load of smaller 2700ks in there was the best idea yet. I also have come up with a little bit of maneuverability for them to be honest. To attempt to get close light to most of the colas, they are all on connections of at least 3 of the splitters. This way I can spin and screw tighter, or looser, to move the light. It's actually pretty cool. I also have my reflector with the left side down lower than the right because the middle plant, taking up most of the left part of the screen, is growing a little bit slower and I definitely trained it down better than the right plant. As for the pictures, I apologize. I had no idea that people were having issues with them, no one has said anything. =/ I'm a bit of a techy and always have my resolutions around 1280x1400 or so, with widescreen, if not 32" or my 47" TVs as my monitor haha, so "Scroll bar? What scroll bar?" hahaha. I'll start resizing them, my bad. Dang downsides of an HD camera I suppose.

Shack, I knew you were here, you left crumbs all around your lounger. The city came in and said that I needed to get the carpets steam cleaned, I blame you!


LOooooooong response post. I'm cranking on Ritalin supposed to be studying for my FInance exam tomorrow morning.

Good night gentleman. Actually, no I lied. I have been thinking haha. I am staying in this house another year, and I will make sure the landlord doesn't do a between lease renewal inspection (he hasnt for 3 years) so I am good to keep it all going. I am thinking about this spring chopping the shelf that is above the flowering area and chucking a tent in there. This would be a DIY homemade tent and I think I will like it a lot. I can get better circulation and I can take better care of mamma dukes Snow White too this way.


Okay, now I'm done.


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## rreign (Nov 1, 2009)

Hey Hey sculli!! I have spent most of my day going back and forth reading your entire thread! I am very happy to see that through all of the ups and downs, that you are currently doing so well. I too will be growing Snow White pretty soon, so you can see why this thread really caught my eye. I just really had one question. I will be growing the Snow White in a cabinet that is *72" tall x 36" wide x 18" deep. That seems about the size that your box is/was. If I keep her short and bushy, do you think I will be fine for a good grow/harvest?*


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Nov 1, 2009)

haha i completely understand how midterm weeks can be. trust me that bio1107 exam then a 4 hour lab had me a bit edgy. not to mention the sociology exam when we hae no book so its all about studying note. pain in my ass but like you said my cousin addy helps me through the long nights of reading and the een longer days of work an class... any how keep it up man


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## tmsculli (Nov 1, 2009)

Rreign, thanks for stopping by brother. I can't wait to get my Snow White clones going, the mother is a very robust plant. If you keep her topped, you will have no problem keeping her in that box. They do grow extremely even on all sides though if cared for properly. You may want to think about making some even square shape as your box base as opposed to a rectangle. As long as you veg with your lights close enough to limit stretching, and you top at least once rather early on, you should have no problem growing in there brother. Now, flowering is a new story. In flowering the plant can up to quadruple in size I believe. Now, if you top properly during veg, by the time you flip to flower, you CAN have enough room to do it, but you will need to make sure that you keep a good eye on her and you are going ot want to flower as soon as possible.

hope that helps a bit brother.


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## purpdaddy (Nov 1, 2009)

Im TriZzZollin in this BiTch! Sup sculli..i been watchin u,,just got my cpu back..porn fest tomorrow night


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## tmsculli (Nov 1, 2009)

PURP!

glad you're alive sir! GOod to hear from ya


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Nov 1, 2009)

they very much will quadruple size if you dont keep them in check... but even stretched they fill out nicely and are pretty white. i believe nirvana when they say its a close relative to the original GreenHouse White Widow...


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Nov 1, 2009)

lord knows i can improve my setup and they still look like a fresh mountain after a snow. hehe im so excited i cant stay outta my tent!!!!


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Nov 1, 2009)

purpdaddy said:


> Im TriZzZollin in this BiTch! Sup sculli..i been watchin u,,just got my cpu back..porn fest tomorrow night


 
haha love it!!!


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## rreign (Nov 2, 2009)

thanks sculli. I was actually just thinking about this little idea I had. If I just topped her early on the kept her sides pruned a little short while turning often, then I could eliminate the need for a bigger space during flowering. Well in theory anyway. I planned on pushing her to flower at about 3 weeks pending her size. I will also be growing buubleponically ( I think I just made up a new word, lol) I'll refer back to this post and purpl's diy as often as I can. Thanks again


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## tmsculli (Nov 2, 2009)

Sounds good brother, that is what I recommend too. Keep me posted on how it all comes together.

Smokey, I can't wait to see that "snow" haha


Well, I finally got time to buy the stuff for cloning gentleman. Sadly, I did not have time to build the system or to take clones, but I will definitely get it together tomorrow.


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## tmsculli (Nov 4, 2009)

Just did my daily checkup and everything looks awesome. Some pics are uploading right now, I'll have them up soon.

I did get the shit to make the cloner, but I forgot to get some sort of top for it as a humidity dome sadly. I may have to do some more work later to figure that out. Although, I do still have those two small domes, I can at least get two going....


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## tmsculli (Nov 4, 2009)

Alright, so I cut the 4 holes in the lid for the cloner, and took some black plastic spray paint and painted the clear tub black. That is outside drying now.


Here is a shot of big momma on Day 65 of her veg







Everything looks good with her and I can't wait to start cloning


Here are the little ladies, day 30 of Flowering for them

































Sadly the nicest looking buds are the hardest to get pictures of. I think we are coming along nicely now though.

What do you guys think?


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## SmokeyMcChokey (Nov 4, 2009)

Nice!!!!!!!


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## purpdaddy (Nov 4, 2009)

check me out sculli. updated with pics


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 4, 2009)

those look AWESOME definitely a healthy flowering plant. given the recovery time needed and the growth you have there. you should have a VERY successful SCRoG harvest!


Shack


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## Bob Smith (Nov 4, 2009)

Tmsculli, you're doing fine (much better then me, but I didn't have the Internet) for your first grow.

It's all a learning experience, and you weren't gonna come out and be See More Buds on your first try.

You get some smokeable herb and learn, it's a success, and it looks like you're on that track.


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## tmsculli (Nov 4, 2009)

Smokey, thanks brother, I'm thinking they look pretty good too =]

Purp, those things are wild looking haha. I can't wait wait wait...mmmmmm I am sitting in my room basking in the smell haha. I can't imagine what yours smells like haha.

Shack, thanks for the kind words sir, I am really glad that this turned around for me. Some of these buds are really starting to boom. I also have started to see more of the smaller and lower colas that are along the screen hairing and bulking up. I have been trimming some half leaves etc trying to maximize the light getting to those smaller ones too. If I can manage to get a few of those smaller colas and not just the few main ones, I will be in good shape.

Bob, it has been a rollercoaster man, but what fun is having everything handed to you? haha I love this shit and I can't believe that I am doing as well as I have been so it is really fun to keep up with. I still know nothing about any of the systems or styles, etc used in your grow so I can't wait to watch that one develop further either.


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## purpdaddy (Nov 4, 2009)

commin up nice sculli..give em a lil time theyll swell up alot!I Predict BIg BUDZ in the NEAR future!


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## Bob Smith (Nov 4, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Smokey, thanks brother, I'm thinking they look pretty good too =]
> 
> Purp, those things are wild looking haha. I can't wait wait wait...mmmmmm I am sitting in my room basking in the smell haha. I can't imagine what yours smells like haha.
> 
> ...


Lol..........I don't get everything handed to me, I just try to buy it 

Should have my clones in the tent in a few days and flowering within about ten, so check in then.

Will post pics when I find my damn USB cord.


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## tmsculli (Nov 5, 2009)

Buds are starting to get serious, thrilled.


Beyond that, today is cloner day. I built it, it works, I am still a little iffy on my dome solution, so I may need to run to the store real fast, but I will have pictures and active clones today for you guys.


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## tmsculli (Nov 5, 2009)

Alright, so here is what I have going on. My only brain fart is with lighting. I can't decide whether I want the lighting to be inside the plastic, or outside and how exactly to do it. Hopefully you guys can have a look and give me some advice











































So the tote is a little 5 gallon tote. I painted the bottom black with plastic bonding paint. 4 holes, air line, pump blah blah etc. I've done that all before.

Now, the humidity dome was my problem, so I solved it, and I think I like what I have. I found a 10'x20' wrap of thin clear plastic wrap for painting for $2.89 at the depot. Brought that back, hacked off a chunk and attached it to the back wall. Then I needed something to hold it up on the other side. I took a metal wire hanger, unbent it into a large "n" or sorts and plugged the ends into a rectangular piece of styrofoam that was the packaging for one of my big 6500k bulbs. Lay the plastic over the top and it works perfectly.

Like I said, now what? Haha...where should I put the lights?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 5, 2009)

Tm, not for anything, but if you're rooting those clones in a DWC system, you don't need a humidity dome.

Don't waste your money - will just lead to increased stem rot and the clones not being that "hardy".


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## Bob Smith (Nov 5, 2009)

Also, I wouldn't root them in the hydroton - have the stem sticking down into the "bubble-fied" air by itself.

If rooting in hydroton then you may need a humidity dome, because the stem won't be as exposed to the moisture as it would be if it was just "hanging" (the correct word escapes me right now) in the reservoir. ("suspended" is what I wanted to use).

I'd get some cheapo styrofoam plates and cut out a little hole in the middle, and have them sitting in that - no medium, just straight water and clones.


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## bloatedcraig (Nov 5, 2009)

Alright man it craig from across the pond, have not been in touch but always check in on ya. 

Take bob advice on the suspended way. And if you are going to use the plastic curtain you want the buld on the inside for sure.

My grow of the white widow is into it second week and i cant believe the size compared to my last coco grow, it takes the piss. Every day they seem to be a inch taller.

And to be honest it's down to you, if i hadn't stumbble'd across your grow i wouldn't have even thought about dwc.

DONT FORGET WHAT I TOLD YOU ABOUT MY FIRST GROW, ONCE THOSE BUD'S SWELL UP CHECK FOR BUD ROT. That shit nearlly broke me.

Take it easy man.


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## tmsculli (Nov 5, 2009)

Well the whole cloning this is an epic failure. I honestly don't fucking care anymore, it is sooooo fucking frustrating. The system works, sure, but the lighting got too hot, it kept falling, the plastic wouldnt stay up and the end all be all reason for unplugging it all and sacrificing my 20 minute old clones is that I couldnt get the bottom dark anymore. I have no way to make it completely light sealed up there so I don't know what I'm going to do. The only other thing that I can think of is to make another box just to do cloning in. Actually, I have a 21 gallon tote with lid that I haven't used yet for anything. The smaller system that I just made will fit inside of it. Do you think I can do that, and have a light hang from the top or something?

Also, so you are telling me to clone with just the stems in hydroton? I know you guys are all saying neoprene collars, but I don't want to order anything else, I can't do it. I have a fuck load of rockwool, a fuckload of hydroton, and I know that people have done it before in any combination of those ways. How should I do this? I have honestly never been more pissed off and upset about not being able to get something to work. 



It's DEFINITELY quittin' time for the day. I hate that I spent 4 hours building it all and getting it all together, and then it doesn't work. cool.






I need to smoke a bowl.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 5, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Well the whole cloning this is an epic failure. I honestly don't fucking care anymore, it is sooooo fucking frustrating. The system works, sure, but the lighting got too hot, it kept falling, the plastic wouldnt stay up and the end all be all reason for unplugging it all and sacrificing my 20 minute old clones is that I couldnt get the bottom dark anymore. I have no way to make it completely light sealed up there so I don't know what I'm going to do. The only other thing that I can think of is to make another box just to do cloning in. Actually, I have a 21 gallon tote with lid that I haven't used yet for anything. The smaller system that I just made will fit inside of it. Do you think I can do that, and have a light hang from the top or something?
> 
> Also, so you are telling me to clone with just the stems in hydroton? I know you guys are all saying neoprene collars, but I don't want to order anything else, I can't do it. I have a fuck load of rockwool, a fuckload of hydroton, and I know that people have done it before in any combination of those ways. How should I do this? I have honestly never been more pissed off and upset about not being able to get something to work.
> 
> ...


Tm, you're talking to the king of putting in lotsa work and then dealing with failures - the word "leak" ring any bells? 

Anyways, just relax, all's not lost - I'm sure you'll get cloning, it's really not that difficult.

Anyhow, yes, if money was no object, I'd tell you to buy some neoprene collars (they're about $.25 a piece, FWIW), but instead you could get some small styrofoam bowls and drill a hole in the middle - tape around the stem so that no light gets through, and voila, a homemade neoprene collar.

And as far as the hydroton, I'm saying "no", you don't need that - my cloner (which is 20 for 20 in its first run) simply has the stems hanging down below the lid of the rez. The hydroton would interfere with the bubbles bursting directly onto the stems, which will mean that you'll need a humidity dome and your rooting will be slower.

So, to clone and get roots, you simply need your reservoir, your cuttings, and then a method to suspend the cuttings at the level of the top of the reservoir while also keeping the rootzone dark. For the third, use either neoprene or those styrofoam bowls (or whatever else you have handy, plastic plates, etc.).

It's not that big a deal, kid - smoke a bowl, relax, and then tackle it tomorrow.

The good news for you is that your mom's so damn big that you can get as many clones as you could possibly need.


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## Knickers (Nov 5, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Tm, you're talking to the king of putting in lotsa work and then dealing with failures - the word "leak" ring any bells?
> 
> Anyways, just relax, all's not lost - I'm sure you'll get cloning, it's really not that difficult.
> 
> ...


Yup Bob has this one spot on. As for the neoprene collars and styrofoam bowls, just get any polystyrene thicker than around 5mm, cut it to a tincy bit wider than your net pots, cut a split up the side of it into the middle so you can slide your clones in and out without damaging them, and then wedge the disk in the top of your net pot. I dont have access to eoprene collars so I use polystyrene and it works great 

Chin up sculli! I'm starting my grow and I have 2 germinated seeds and no where to plant them! Yay for fuckups!


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## tmsculli (Nov 5, 2009)

haha thanks guys. Just too much damn stress I suppose. I shouldn't let something that I choose to do for fun piss me off, it doesn't make any sense. The biggest problem is lighting with it. Bob, I think ill do that styro plate deal, not having to have a humidity dome is great. Ill take my system chuck it in one of those 21 gallon totes and see what happens I guess


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## cruzer101 (Nov 5, 2009)

dude, have you thought of just getting another sterlite tub turn it upside down and set it on top? You could use the tub later to put the top in while changing res. How about shots of the girls?


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## tmsculli (Nov 5, 2009)

I don't know what you are talking about Cruzer. Are you saying as the dome? I went to the depot and none of the containers I saw seemed to fit well or looked good to me so I got the plastic. Now I am just going to use one of my 21 gallon totes as a little box and have it light tight etc.

I'll get some new pictures up tomorrow for you guys, today was a bit stressful haha.


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Here are the girls day 32 of Flowering.


















































































Healthy as a boot.


I also made some styrofoam plate collars just a minute ago. They look really good. I think I am going to try and get that cloner set up in one of my larger totes in a little bit. my 12:20 class got cancelled so I have A LOT of time to kill haha.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 6, 2009)

all this building and such... all you need to clone is your rockwool cube, spray bottle and a humidity dome.

line up your cubes in something like this





for extra care it has a warming mat underneath to stimulate roots

plug in your cuttings and then top feed water for the next few days, and maybe occasionally lift the lid to mist and keep a humid environment.

i think people overthink cuttings their first time out. in culinary school, before we could use a food processor, they made us chop pounds of onions with a knife. 
the idea is to learn the process, and the techniques involved. once you have a grasp on what is happening and what you're looking for as a finished product, then you take the shortcuts.

what i'm saying is take your cuttings and propagate the old school way, like they would at a nursery. plug em into rockwool and leave them in a humidity dome.
when you have a high success rate with that, THEN build a cloner to do exactly what you want and how you want it be done.

(although the DWC is pretty cool)


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 6, 2009)

also just looked through your pictures, now would be an OK time to trim anything green UNDER your screen. all you want under the screen at this point are stems. should give a boost to whats happening up top. less energy wasted on leaves/nodes/buds that aren't getting any light.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Hey Shack, the main reason why I have not been successful with cloning is not that I don't know how or that I can't get a proper system going which I think is what most of you guys are thinking. The issue is lighting. Remember, I was unable to light proof my veg area, so instead of normally blocking light OUT of your flower area, I had to lock light IN my veg box. In doing this it caused some issues. Mainly, I can't use the rest of the closet for anything else because I can't seal off the light well enough. The veg box seals fine, so with just those in there, I'm perfect, but with cloning, I need lights. This is the issue. That is why I just took my cloner system and put it in a 21 gallon tote. Putting the entire system in there should allow me to lock the light in and not screw anything else up. I really wanted to do a simple dome like that, but I have just not been able to get this shit to work out haha. Now I have a bubblecloner made so I am going to make it work.

Also, I'm not too sure if I have much growth underneath. What all should I be trimming? Fan leaves and such?


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Oh, and how high above the water should my clone stems be? I know they should be getting splashed, so like.. an inch or so?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 6, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Oh, and how high above the water should my clone stems be? I know they should be getting splashed, so like.. an inch or so?


An inch should be good for them.

A good test is to have your cloner running with the holes uncovered - if within a minute or two the outside of the holes are all fairly covered in water, you're good.


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Cool, I'm uploading some pictures of the system now.I am really happy with this one guys, I think this may actually work haha. *crosses fingers*


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Alright, here is what I have going on. I have my 5 gallon cloner I made from a few posts up, but now it is inside a 21 gallon tote to trap in most of the light. This allows me to keep it in the main area of the bathroom instead of in the closet, which is exactly what I needed. I have cut styrofoam plates as my collars and they seem like they will work well. I cut a hole in the top center of the lid and put one of my 65W 6500k bulbs up through that and locked it into place by screwing it into the base. Then I ran a power strip across the top and made sure everything was centered. I think we are ready to roll gentleman.


Check it out:


























I really like this, I think it will work well. Once I get a bit of feedback, hopefully instantly from shack and bob (  ) I will take some cuttings and get rolling!


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## Bob Smith (Nov 6, 2009)

That'll work fine, as long as that light's not a power hazard.

And you're gonna want a larger hole in the middle of the plates for the stems - looks like you made the slit but forgot to make the hole.

Other then that, you're good to go.


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

See, I made a hole on a set of 4 I made ten minutes ago and took a small cutting to see if it fit and it slid through. I'm afraid of making it too big. Ill poke it a bit more and get it to open up more.



oh snap. that's what she said?


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Oh, and Power Hazard meaning what exactly? The light is a decent amount away from all the holes, and from the bottom, which was my main concern. Also, it's screwed in really really well, I made sure it can't fall through. Are there some possible problems I'm overlooking? Surely point them out to me please because burning down a rental property wouldn't go over too well eh? haha


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## Bob Smith (Nov 6, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Oh, and Power Hazard meaning what exactly? The light is a decent amount away from all the holes, and from the bottom, which was my main concern. Also, it's screwed in really really well, I made sure it can't fall through. Are there some possible problems I'm overlooking? Surely point them out to me please because burning down a rental property wouldn't go over too well eh? haha


Sorry, meant "fire hazard", and I was referring to the mogul (is that what it's called?) of the light going through the plastic to get to the surge protector - not sure if that's safe or not, but if you're cool with it, we're cool with it


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Damnit, I just realized that my PH meter was evidently dry the past few days because I lost the cap. Today I finally got it into the re-wetting special formula or whatever to restart the electrode. After that I calibrated it and checked it against my little water test color ph kit. Now accurate, I went to take my daily readings and realized that my mother and my flowering girls were both at a ph of about 5.2. This means that I was obviously aiming for the same number (usually 5.9) and the meter was off by X amount. So, it was only a few days I hope, but now that I have caught it I am going to keep a much better eye on it. 

I have had the bulb running in that tote for a while now and there is not much heat at all. Should I try and put some small holes in the top for passive heat rising?


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

alright, sounds good Bob. I honestly think it may be okay.

It is starting to get a little hot in there though. Should I do some passive intake and exhaust holes in there? I know it's supposed to be hot in there, but I'm not trying to melt them. I could do a computer fan if I wanted, but not sure if it is going to be necessary.


EDIT:

Trying to edit them so that I don't keep posting more and more. It's way too hot in that tote. Already above 80*. I don't have any computer fans around, but I did find an old Xbox that no one wants anymore that I think im gonna rip open and take the fan out of.


EDIT:

(10 minutes later) 

Got the fan out, easy as hell. So now I just need a 12v power pack guy correct?


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 6, 2009)

that cloning tub makes me smile. lol. maybe drill a few holes, but try to be systematic about it. if you put holes up top, you'll need a few down below to create airflow, just holes in the top won't do anything. you need an entrance and an exit. looks like she should work like a charm. congrats!


Shack


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## Bob Smith (Nov 6, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> alright, sounds good Bob. I honestly think it may be okay.
> 
> It is starting to get a little hot in there though. Should I do some passive intake and exhaust holes in there? I know it's supposed to be hot in there, but I'm not trying to melt them. I could do a computer fan if I wanted, but not sure if it is going to be necessary.
> 
> ...


Definitely get some ventilation going if possible - 80s okay and won't hurt them too bad, but something around 75 would be primo.


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

it hit 100 haha. This XBOX fan is fucking awesome haha. I got it wired up nicely. I think I'm going to do some passive intake and then this fan for exhaust. Sound good guys? I'm getting really excited, i think this is going to work!


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## Bob Smith (Nov 6, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> it hit 100 haha. This XBOX fan is fucking awesome haha. I got it wired up nicely. I think I'm going to do some passive intake and then this fan for exhaust. Sound good guys? I'm getting really excited, i think this is going to work!


Yeah, that should be fine for that small of a space - good luck buddy


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Fan is in and works great. It's a little noisy, but not a big deal to me at all. I am making sure that the air stone is secured to the bottom then we are gonna kick this guy into gear.


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Cuts are made, leaves are halved, stems are on 45* and split in the center.


in the mix.

have to go to class now, I'll post pics of them when I get back.


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

So, I'm not going to class, but my clones are already flopped over. They look terrible. The leaves are already feeling kinda soggy and stuff. This has happened almost immediately every time I have attempted to clone. Does this mean I am getting the wrong size cuttings or what? Do I have the wrong height? part of the plant? diameter of the stem? too many leaves? I can't figure it out to be honest.

What can I do?

I have read everything there is to read on cloning, but for some reason this just seems like there is something stupid stopping me from succeeding.

Here is what they looked like 20 minutes ago, right after their cut.








now all but one of them are flopped over.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 6, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> So, I'm not going to class, but my clones are already flopped over. They look terrible. The leaves are already feeling kinda soggy and stuff. This has happened almost immediately every time I have attempted to clone. Does this mean I am getting the wrong size cuttings or what? Do I have the wrong height? part of the plant? diameter of the stem? too many leaves? I can't figure it out to be honest.
> 
> What can I do?
> 
> ...


Are you sure that the stems are getting misted very well?

If so, just relax, they'll come back - there's often some shock when they get cut off of their mama - just make sure the stems are staying wet under the styrofoam and you'll be fine.

Just let it happen, grasshopper.

EDIT: what do you mean the stems are "halved"? Also, are you taking the cutting and immediately making sure that it's in water, to prevent any air bubbles from forming in the stem? I assumed you knew that once the cutting is made the exposed root tip has to be put into something (cloning gel, a glass of water, I use my mouth/spit) to prevent an air bubble from forming - are you doing this?


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Yea I submerge it immediately in water. The halving I was referring to is cutting the 45* angle, and then from the pointy part, cut up about 1/4". Evidently it hastens root growth. So is it common for them to flop over and then come back?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 6, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Yea I submerge it immediately in water. The halving I was referring to is cutting the 45* angle, and then from the pointy part, cut up about 1/4". Evidently it hastens root growth. So is it common for them to flop over and then come back?


Yes, it is - the technical term for it is "wilting".

Honestly, I've never done that cut up the stem bit, but in the essence of KISS, I'd say it's unnecessary and is probably not very recommended for your first time.

I'd go as simple as possible, and then if you wanna try out new stuff for future runs, then go for it.

You should have as few variables as possible for your first attempt, IMHO.


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

I agree, which is why I wanted to just do a simple humidity dome, but too many factors were against me. I think I may just be doing it all wrong to be honest. I guess I'll leave them in there and see what happens, but they look terrible.


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

Hmm, so after I told myself I wouldn't make those holes in the collars bigger again, I did, and they are a bit too big, but I'm dealing with it. I was thinking, the neoprene collars are kinda thick aren't they? Maybe I should use multiple plates? Regardless, I'm ordering some fucking collars right now haha. I don't have enough money to be doing this kinda shit, but I have to.


EDIT

The holes I have cut for the net pots are 3", does that mean that I should be getting the 3.75" collars to stop them from falling in? I know many of them are advertised as fitting in the net pot of that size, but that is not what I'm looking for.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 6, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Hmm, so after I told myself I wouldn't make those holes in the collars bigger again, I did, and they are a bit too big, but I'm dealing with it. I was thinking, the neoprene collars are kinda thick aren't they? Maybe I should use multiple plates? Regardless, I'm ordering some fucking collars right now haha. I don't have enough money to be doing this kinda shit, but I have to.
> 
> 
> EDIT
> ...


As long as the collar is bigger then the hole, you're fine - I have 1" holes and 1.5" collars and they work fine.


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## tmsculli (Nov 6, 2009)

It seems I may have screwed up then guys. 2" is evidently the standard for cloning, but when I built the cloner lid, I didn't know this. I cut the 3" holes for my netpots, but now I'm not using net pots haha. The 3.75" collars have too big of a center hole to work with clones. Maybe I can buy some 2" collars and then have them sit on the plates to that they fill up the rest of the space?


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## Knickers (Nov 6, 2009)

Sculli mang don't bother with the neoprene. Go to your closest grocer, find a polystyrene box that's 1/2" thick and use that. The thick and soft styrafoam will work better than thin hard plates and it will cost nothing.

As for humidity domes, I cloned 5 cutting in my AG without any humidity dome. These clones were treated like shit, yet 4/5 still rooted even with no dome. Mist them twice a day at least in the first week just to keep them going, and they'll do their thing.


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## tmsculli (Nov 7, 2009)

Not sure I know what type of box you are talking about. I could definitely do a roam up and down each aisle in Acme haha. I'm not worrying about humidity domes because I'm doing the dwc deal though.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 7, 2009)

I think he is talking about the cheap styrofoam coolers. That's not a bad idea, I say fuck it, leave em be and let them do their thing, cloning takes time. You'll start to see white nubs along the stem in a few days, then a few days later full blown roots, few days later you'll see some hairs on those roots. Just wait it out brotha once you see some new growth up top you know you've done it. You're off to a good start don't stress!! Happy cloning!


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 7, 2009)

Woke up and they were all shriveled and flopped over. Epic Fail. hahaha

Ugh, it's so fucking annoying. For something that all the books say "most people have a 100% success rate" I sure do fucking suck at it 

Buds are getting huge, happy about that.


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## ReefersMcNasty (Nov 7, 2009)

when i took clones off of my outdoor plants i just cut them, dipped them in rooting hormone and put them into small cups with peat, perlite and vermiculite and left them in my basement with low light for about a week and they exploded with roots. you could try that and then rinse the roots and put it into the DWC.


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## Knickers (Nov 7, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Woke up and they were all shriveled and flopped over. Epic Fail. hahaha
> 
> Ugh, it's so fucking annoying. For something that all the books say "most people have a 100% success rate" I sure do fucking suck at it
> 
> Buds are getting huge, happy about that.


Look at my first attempt at cloning in hydro mate

It funked up and looked terrible but it worked out fine.

Are you misting them? You must mist them twice a day at least in the early stages.

Yes I'm talking about FREE styrafoam boxes. A lot of fruit and vegetables is packed into them and the boxes are thrown out. Just go grab some. Shit the styrafoam packaging from your TV or whatever is usually quite thick. My current collars are made out of the styrafoam that was in the box with the last microwave I bought


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## tmsculli (Nov 8, 2009)

Yea I have a shit ton of styrofoam from my 65W cfls. hmm I tried making one today and it didn't go too well. Maybe I'll just pop a hole in the center instead of making a cut in from the side....

I may deal with it tomorrow and try to get it going, but I should study all day before work. 

sleep.


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## Knickers (Nov 8, 2009)

No you should use the split up the side to plant/transplant your ladies. It just has to be an incision so you can twist the styrafoam and have an easy path to the centre of the circle. I used a hacksaw blade (sans frame) as it made clear cuts without tearing.


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## tmsculli (Nov 8, 2009)

Cool, I'm taking a small break from studying now to do my ph, ppm, temp, blah blah on my ladies. I won't be able to get serious with this cloning deal until tuesday afternoon. 1. School 2. Weed 3. Work.

Priorities in order now.


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## Knickers (Nov 8, 2009)

But are you still misting these ones? Pics? Surely all s not lost?!


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## tmsculli (Nov 9, 2009)

Those ones were DEFINITELY truly lost knickers. I will admit, I was not misting them, so maybe that is the piece of the puzzle I was missing? Like I said, I won't have time to get another go at it until maybe tomorrow afternoon. I will be very careful this run though. I am going to try and do everything as close to text book as I can and see what happens. I am uploading some close up shots I took yesterday of them now, and then I will put up new pictures from today. In some of the pictures you will see that I have buds forming with crystals, but no hairs. This is only apparent with 2 or 3 of the buds though. This being said, I took those pictures yesterday, and decided to add another light closer to those hairless ones. I woke up, bam, we've got hairs. haha

pics up very shortly.


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## tmsculli (Nov 9, 2009)

alright, these are from yesterday which was day 34 of Flower. Some pictures are dark and blurry, but many are really good. I was messing around wiht the 238921391 settings trying to get the best macro set up.





























































































See those smaller ones that are bud with no hair? I fixed that, so the newer pictures will show that. They will be up in a bit.

How are they looking?


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## tmsculli (Nov 9, 2009)

I'm really starting to get some significant bud formation on the lower levels and that makes me happy. I was originally unsure about the yield I was going to be getting. I was only seeing development around the main colas, which frustrated me because I spent all that time and effort doing the screen and didn't seem to be gaining anything from it. Now that I have been trimming some leaves in half and focusing on spreading light more evenly to the lower spots, I am really pleased. I don't want to ask that noob question, but at what point can you start estimating yield? Well, pictures for today are uploading now and will be up in about 10 minutes.


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## tmsculli (Nov 9, 2009)

Day 35 Flower (today)




































































Notice the one's that were almost all green bud are now growing some hairs. 

Anyone have any comments? How am I doing? Am I still appearing to be set for about the middle of December?


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 9, 2009)

i'd say you are doing pretty damn well! that trim job up top seems to be paying off for you. what is your ppm for nutrient solution? if you really want them to start bulking up you should set a goal of about 1400-1500 ppm to really get the buds bulking up and piling on the trichomes. although, you're looking pretty damn frosty, and this is from some bagseed? those leaves look VERY sativa, so you might be late December or early January. Then again, that's all up to you, just need to keep an eye on bud size, "hair color", and (i dont think i ever will, anytime soon) trichome color. Purp can help you out with that more than i can, he takes trichomes MUCH more seriously than most anyone i've seen. Keep up the good work, you're doing well!!


Shack


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## Bob Smith (Nov 9, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> i'd say you are doing pretty damn well! that trim job up top seems to be paying off for you. what is your ppm for nutrient solution? if you really want them to start bulking up you should set a goal of about 1400-1500 ppm to really get the buds bulking up and piling on the trichomes. although, you're looking pretty damn frosty, and this is from some bagseed? those leaves look VERY sativa, so you might be late December or early January. Then again, that's all up to you, just need to keep an eye on bud size, "hair color", and (i dont think i ever will, anytime soon) trichome color. Purp can help you out with that more than i can, he takes trichomes MUCH more seriously than most anyone i've seen. Keep up the good work, you're doing well!!
> 
> 
> Shack


Never grown under fluoros before, but I'd be willing to wager that PPMs that high would burn the bejesus outta those plants - those are 1000HPS PPMs, not very suitable for fluoros.

Just my $.02,


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## tmsculli (Nov 9, 2009)

Thanks Shack, good to hear from you as usual. I haven't gotten my data for today yet but it fluctuates between like 1000ppm and 1200ppm. Currently it is 1040. I definitely want to do a res swap with new water and nutes this weekend. After I have it at full dosage, then do you just slowly increase to punch up the ppm. I know you have to do this carefully and make sure you don't hurt the plants, but is there any set in stone way to go about doing this? Yea, these are from bagseed. It's funny that you say sativa, because many people earlier on were screaming indica. Now, they used to be very short and squatty and broad leaved, but now they are getting a little spindly. Maybe it has something to do with my light height throughout all of it. I never had any stretching at all so it never got a chance to get lanky. That sucks that I may be looking at such a late harvest time, but I won't sacrifice the bud for an early harvest. I would love to harvest at peak obviously. People always stress the whole trichome thing, but like you said, the hair coloration, curling etc has a lot to do with it too. I'm sure purp will be in here to coach me on it as I get closer haha.


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## tmsculli (Nov 9, 2009)

Bob, what would the difference in lighting do to affect the ppm that the plants can handle? I guess the more and "better" light such as an HPS is going to cause more photosynthesis and production of buds at a faster rate than with cfls. So therefore they can handle using up the additional nutrients? I guess that kind of makes sense.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 9, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Bob, what would the difference in lighting do to affect the ppm that the plants can handle? I guess the more and "better" light such as an HPS is going to cause more photosynthesis and production of buds at a faster rate than with cfls. So therefore they can handle using up the additional nutrients? I guess that kind of makes sense.


Correctamundo.


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## tmsculli (Nov 9, 2009)

NOICE.


god damn, I don't want to study for marketing anymore. I am sick of it. I just want to pamper my ladies =/


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 9, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Never grown under fluoros before, but I'd be willing to wager that PPMs that high would burn the bejesus outta those plants - those are 1000HPS PPMs, not very suitable for fluoros.
> 
> Just my $.02,


I hovered around 1200-1300 in my last flouro/DWC/drip grow, what i'm saying is based upon what purp and gypsy were always preaching, 1400 ppm. Gypsy was flowering under HPS that was his ppm, and purp was flowering under CFL with the same ppm. I'm sure there is science behind both sides of this, but what it really comes down to is what the plant can handle. I would slowly slowly eek your way towards about 1300 and if they look healthy, bump it a little further. but in reality you would like to see that 1400 mark in the last 2-4 weeks before flush/ripening thats when they put on the most weight. So take your time easing there if you decide to, growing is an art form, we all paint our picture differently.


Shack


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## Knickers (Nov 9, 2009)

Different plants can handle different ppm, there's ya science!


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## tmsculli (Nov 10, 2009)

Well, I just did a full nute swap on the flowering girls. They are 100% and hopefully this will help them take off a bit. Even with full doses, the tank is only at 1000ppm, so I may try to climb a bit later this week and see what happens. The Mother is getting huge and not liking being all cramped up so I need to do some big pruning and hopefully get some clones off of her. I am looking at it now and I just have one more question about my cloner. How much bubble action do I need? I know that the underside of my inserts (styrofoam, whichever you choose) should be wet on the bottom from the spray. That being said, are we talking moist, or like...soaked. If we need soaked, then I need to buy a better airstone. I am just making sure that what I have will suffice. I am going to take 2 cuttings now and put them in my new thicker styrofoam collars, be sure to mist them, and see what happens.

Possibly pictures later, as of right now I'm juggling this and getting stuff together for work.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 10, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Well, I just did a full nute swap on the flowering girls. They are 100% and hopefully this will help them take off a bit. Even with full doses, the tank is only at 1000ppm, so I may try to climb a bit later this week and see what happens. The Mother is getting huge and not liking being all cramped up so I need to do some big pruning and hopefully get some clones off of her. I am looking at it now and I just have one more question about my cloner. How much bubble action do I need? I know that the underside of my inserts (styrofoam, whichever you choose) should be wet on the bottom from the spray. That being said, are we talking moist, or like...soaked. If we need soaked, then I need to buy a better airstone. I am just making sure that what I have will suffice. I am going to take 2 cuttings now and put them in my new thicker styrofoam collars, be sure to mist them, and see what happens.
> 
> Possibly pictures later, as of right now I'm juggling this and getting stuff together for work.


Soaked.

You need some serious bubbling action for clones, otherwise they'll dry out.


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## tmsculli (Nov 10, 2009)

Alright, I took some really good cuttings. I think this attempt is going to be a success. I moved my double outlet pump, 1 of the 2 I used on the flowering tank, into the cloner and took the cloner's smaller air pump and put it in the main tank. Now the clones are bubbling seriously and the flower tank still has plenty of bubbles. 

These cuts are much healthier, all on 45*, didn't use clonex this time, made sure not to flip them upside down, immediately got them into water, all lower branches were cut off, all leaves were cut in half, and I misted them. I think we are good guys. haha. Pics are uploading now.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 10, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Alright, I took some really good cuttings. I think this attempt is going to be a success. I moved my double outlet pump, 1 of the 2 I used on the flowering tank, into the cloner and took the cloner's smaller air pump and put it in the main tank. Now the clones are bubbling seriously and the flower tank still has plenty of bubbles.
> 
> These cuts are much healthier, all on 45*, didn't use clonex this time, made sure not to flip them upside down, immediately got them into water, all lower branches were cut off, all leaves were cut in half, and I misted them. I think we are good guys. haha. Pics are uploading now.


Sounds like you're just about good to go - I'm rooting for ya.


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## tmsculli (Nov 10, 2009)

Rooting....clever Bob haha


Alright, here are some pictures my friends:


Big Momma, Day 71 of her vegetative life in a box:

















Can't get a real picture of her where she looks like a plant haha, but you get the idea. There are branches, leaves, etc.


My girls on day 36 of flowering:




























































Alright, oh and while these ictures have been uploading, my clones are starting to wither. It's 80 in the box, but I think that the light just may be too much. It's too big, evidently give off too much heat and I think it is the reason why my clones keep dying. You guys think I should downsize?


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## tmsculli (Nov 10, 2009)

Here are two pictures of the clones 15 minutes ago













Like I said now they are withering a bit, so I went ahead and pulled the big light and put something smaller in. Hopefully they will bounce back.


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## Knickers (Nov 10, 2009)

Good move changing the lights. Even the 2x26w AG lights need to be a good 4-5" from the plants. I'm also not a fan of cutting leaves in half as it's like taking away half of the plants reserves. What's your humidity with 80degF temps? I'd estimate it isn't high enough, so yeah move those lights away and get those temps closer to the 70s.

Apart from that looking at your mother it's not like it matters if these 2 clones die too, she's damn near a shrub lol.

As the the styrafoam, I'll post ya a pick of how it should look as soon as my home net connection is back up. Uploading and posting pics from a phone is a pita.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 10, 2009)

by the looks of your mother you can be clipping some HUGE clones, like 2-3' tall and with much larger leaves. 
umm... lost my train of thought. those clones look like they'll be pretty successful though. hopin for ya!


Shack


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## infexion1134 (Nov 10, 2009)

If your interested this product is good for cloning.
It keeps the cuttings always moist.
http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Single-membrane-fogger-transformer/dp/B000AIFXHW


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## Knickers (Nov 10, 2009)

Also I wouldn't give up on clonex, it will likely help


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## tmsculli (Nov 10, 2009)

Shack and Knickers, yea she is a damn shrub haha. It's awesome, I love how robust she is. I just keep clipping and it grows larger and it weirder directions haha. 


Infexion, thanks for the link. I know that misters are a great way, foggers too. Sadly I'm a broke college student who is all about DIY. Can't throw anymore bones, we are working on what I have.


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## tmsculli (Nov 10, 2009)

Knickers, I wasn't sure if I should use clonex if I wasn't putting the clone into a medium persay. Do you think it is too late to dip them in now? They are definitely still alive though, whch is awesome. i just checked on them. I am sure the humidity is too low too. The temps are definitely better with the 2 smaller lights, but I'm sure humidity is still not high enough. I'll have to throw my meters in there tomorrow and see what's up.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 10, 2009)

are you clipping just the top 2 nodes of a branch? my suggestion was that you cut further down the branch, and give yourself some thing hardier to clone.
i realized i said 2-3' i meant, 2-3 INCHES but now that i rethink, possibly closer to 3-4 inches.
glad to see you might have this all worked out, keep em misted and a close eye, you'll be successful!


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 10, 2009)

Yea, we'll see how it goes. If this doesn't work I may be at the end of my rope, not sure what I'll end up doing. Probably something terribly expensive and irrational.


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## Knickers (Nov 10, 2009)

Nah dude we'll be able to get it working, don't you worry!


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## tmsculli (Nov 11, 2009)

Just checked on the clones. 1 looks great, 2 are 90% dead one is like..70% dead. I put a clear cup over the healthy one for a humidity dome. I'll be back after this class in like 2 hours and I'll do some more work with them.


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## Knickers (Nov 11, 2009)

Mist them all first and put cups over all of them! They can still bounce back damnit!


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## Knickers (Nov 11, 2009)

Alright mate heres the styrafoam I'm using right now:

A good 2cm thick, and its quite aerated and fluffy






The hacksaw blade I use.. the wide edge is a clean cut, however I taper the disk slightly to wedge into the cups, so the bottom edge is a bit rough.






The clean cut from the edge to the centre of the disk. The cleaner the better as youre really stuffing the styrafoam disk into those cups!






The hole in the middle was originally only say 3mm wise, but the plants easily grow and stretch the opening and secure themselves into position






And its supporting this weight eaaaasily, and these plans will be in a scrog which will help with weight anyway


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## Roseman (Nov 11, 2009)

Hey, why did the pics on your Comparison thread, DWC Vs Bubbleponics, disappear?

I noticed many of your pics disappeared.


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## Knickers (Nov 11, 2009)

2am, short temper may have gotten the best of me, so first I'll check if that post is directed at my Roseman?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 11, 2009)

Knickers said:


> 2am, short temper may have gotten the best of me, so first I'll check if that post is directed at my Roseman?


Yeah, pretty sure he was referring to tmsculli's comparison thread.


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## tmsculli (Nov 11, 2009)

Ah, yea. I got really paranoid half way through the journal because I started getting errors on photobucket that I had never seen before. I had my profile on there with all my real info and I got a little freaked out. I cancelled the account and made a new one. I didn't really think it through I suppose. I still have all the pictures, but I would just have to re-upload them. 

Knickers, the styrofoam I have here is about the same thickness as that. You guys keep telling me not to use net pots though, so I guess I'm not going to be cutting them to fit the cup. Regardless, I think the collars I made up are working now, but thanks for the heads up with it. I'm gonna go in there now and see how they are looking. I think that at least 2 of them are done. I may chuck them and cut some new ones. I'm also going to put clear cups on all of them as individual humidity domes.

Also, Shack, you said something about getting some serious clones cut. You guys are confusing me and hopping all over. Originally I was told small stem, very few leaves, leaves in half. Now it's sounding like thicker stem, more branches, more leaves, full leaves? Haha, I'm not frustrated or anything about it, I'm just confused and want the best output.


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## Knickers (Nov 11, 2009)

You dont want small stems and underdeveloped growth. Go for clones that have a good 3mm-4mm stem at least. You dont have to use the tip of the branch to clone, its fine to make 2-3 clones out of 1 single branch if its long enough.

You don't have to use net pots, but I find it a lot easier to use net pots as it gives a wider edge against which to jam the styrafoam disks, and alsi provides some added support to the roots of the plants as they grow through it. Obviously though if youre transplanting from a cloner to your veg/flower system and not transferring the net pots then this is going to be a problem, and is the most important reason why its not always appropriate to use net pots.


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## tmsculli (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks Knickers, even if I don't understand your devil units of measurement, I'm sure I can get it done =P


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## tmsculli (Nov 11, 2009)

Alright, so one of the clones I took looked decent, the others were shit. I went ahead and chucked the 3 bad ones. I made 3 new cuts. I got a little bit thicker stems with some better growth, just some overall more healthy sectors. I used clonex this time and they are also each under their own humidity dome. Rounnnnnnd 2: Ding Ding


Oh, and buds are getting pretty tasty looking. I do have a question though. On some of the colas, the bud is growing really really thin. Is there any real reason for this? Or does it just kinda happen? I'm asking just because some are huge and thick while those are thin, more green, less hairs, and growing slower.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 11, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Alright, so one of the clones I took looked decent, the others were shit. I went ahead and chucked the 3 bad ones. I made 3 new cuts. I got a little bit thicker stems with some better growth, just some overall more healthy sectors. I used clonex this time and they are also each under their own humidity dome. Rounnnnnnd 2: Ding Ding
> 
> 
> Oh, and buds are getting pretty tasty looking. I do have a question though. On some of the colas, the bud is growing really really thin. Is there any real reason for this? Or does it just kinda happen? I'm asking just because some are huge and thick while those are thin, more green, less hairs, and growing slower.


Assuming they are receiving the same amount of light, nutes, etc., this is simply a case of genetics - some are better, some are worse - take clones from the ones that are growing fat buds quickly.


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## Roseman (Nov 11, 2009)

Knickers said:


> 2am, short temper may have gotten the best of me, so first I'll check if that post is directed at my Roseman?


"my Roseman" ???? I didn't see any recent post directed at me???


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## Roseman (Nov 11, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Ah, yea. I got really paranoid half way through the journal because I started getting errors on photobucket that I had never seen before. I had my profile on there with all my real info and I got a little freaked out. I cancelled the account and made a new one. I didn't really think it through I suppose. I still have all the pictures, but I would just have to re-upload them.
> 
> Knickers, the styrofoam I have here is about the same thickness as that. You guys keep telling me not to use net pots though, so I guess I'm not going to be cutting them to fit the cup. Regardless, I think the collars I made up are working now, but thanks for the heads up with it. I'm gonna go in there now and see how they are looking. I think that at least 2 of them are done. I may chuck them and cut some new ones. I'm also going to put clear cups on all of them as individual humidity domes.
> 
> Also, Shack, you said something about getting some serious clones cut. You guys are confusing me and hopping all over. Originally I was told small stem, very few leaves, leaves in half. Now it's sounding like thicker stem, more branches, more leaves, full leaves? Haha, I'm not frustrated or anything about it, I'm just confused and want the best output.


well, you are reposting pics now, could you go back to your thread and post the comparison pics???


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## tmsculli (Nov 11, 2009)

Roseman, I think he meant to say "was that post directed at ME Roseman" not my. Also, it wasn't it was directed at me haha. All is well.

I can definitely do that, I'll get on it. 

Bob, I'm only taking clones from my snow white momma so no worries on taking clones from the stronger growing bud ones.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 11, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Roseman, I think he meant to say "was that post directed at ME Roseman" not my. Also, it wasn't it was directed at me haha. All is well.
> 
> I can definitely do that, I'll get on it.
> 
> Bob, I'm only taking clones from my snow white momma so no worries on taking clones from the stronger growing bud ones.


If memory serves, it's your bagseed flowering, no? Who knows how good it'll be, so I'd highly recommend taking some clones from the good ones, just in case you wanna keep that strain alive.

Obviously your call, but I'd definitely do that.


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## tmsculli (Nov 11, 2009)

Bob, yea, I honestly have NEVER thought about that. I think I am so stuck in my mindset of "ew bagseed crap not good headies blah blah" and "mmm named strand expensive fem seeds this is great" you know?

Sadly I'm out of slots in my bubbler. hmmm


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## Knickers (Nov 11, 2009)

Ok I have an important request!

Can you please take pics detailing each major step of your cloning process? Maybe we can "spot" the problem because 1/4 just aint good enough! Also, pleeease take pics of anything before you want to throw it. A clone can take 1-2 weeks to show roots, so throwing out anything before then might be premature. Anyway, sounds like you have 1 success! Nubs/bumps on the stem at all?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 11, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Bob, yea, I honestly have NEVER thought about that. I think I am so stuck in my mindset of "ew bagseed crap not good headies blah blah" and "mmm named strand expensive fem seeds this is great" you know?
> 
> Sadly I'm out of slots in my bubbler. hmmm


You're about five weeks into flowering, yeah?

If so, I'd definitely take a clone off of the biggest and best flowering plant you've got - would be a pity if it turned out to be great smoke and you lost it forever.

The clone will take a while to root and revert back to veg growth, but that's not the worst thing in the world.

However, the longer you delay, the longer it's gonna take to root and grow.


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## tmsculli (Nov 11, 2009)

Bob, LIke I said, I have no where to put one of the clones from her. Also, I would hate to still be fucking around killing clones and waste one from my flowering girls. I do agree though, getting a clone from her wouldnt be a bad idea.


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## Fred Flintstoner (Nov 11, 2009)

subscribed my DIY DWC Brotha


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## Knickers (Nov 11, 2009)

Heres an idea, just take a clone the old fashioned way. A good starter potting mix (or hey... some alright dirt you scooped from someones gaden bed) in a tray you can put a clear plastic cup over. Voila!


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

Hey Fred, thanks for stopping by man. It's a shame all my older pictures are gone, you aren't aware of half of the stupid shit that I have had going on in this grow haha. Knickers, I don't wanna transfer from soil to hydro man. Also, if I did anything I would do that one method that is on this site somewhere that is just cloning 100% in water. That's it. The guy has a 100% success rate with it.


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

They're Alive!!!


I am very happy to say that I have 4 clones that have survived the night. Still no nubs or anything, but they are alive, not even wilting! I did raise the water level in their tub a bit to get more splashing up to them and like I said yesterday I also now am using clear cups as humidity domes for them. It seems to be working well so I am hoping for the best. 

The Flowering ladies are making me excited man. I went through and did a serious trim job today cutting out the bulk of clumped up leaves in the center etc that were blocking light from the lower levels. I didn't remove more than half leaves from any of the branches and I didn't hurt any buds or branches in the act. I just looked at bud points that were slow growing, moved around the top growth until the shadow on top of the slow bud went away, then I looked at what I was moving and trimmed accordingly. I am hoping that this will significantly increase my yield. I am worried that they may be a bit behind though. Can it work like that? Is it possible that I harvest the top buds that are full and nicely trichomes etc and leave the lower levels to get larger? I haven't figured out if trichomes is a time thing or an environmental conditions thing. Basically, if a top cola is growing and budding well and eventually gets to cloudy trichomes, does this mean that most of the plant will be on the same page? Or, does this mean that the lower level buds that didn't receive as prime of conditions originally will now have the proper sunlight to grow etc.


Regardless, I'll toss some pictures up in a minute


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

Alright, so here are some pictures of my clones. These were taken yesterday morning so this is their 2nd day. I am almost afraid to start a day count, but I am praying these ones hold on strong!

Here is what the setup looks like








Inside








And here are the ladies.






















If you notice, none of them look too similar. I did this on purpose. I decided that instead of trying to bug people forever and have them tell me what is the "perfect clone" I would just try different things that I have heard and see what works. I have one that is skinny with few leaves, I have one that is short with a fat stem, I have a tall one, and I have a thicker one with a lot of leaves. So far they are all created equal, so we will see what happens.



Pictures of the flowering ladies are uploading now.


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

Day 38 of flower for my ladies. I'm not sure I could be having a better run. Ever since that nute swap they have grown significantly larger and faster, the lame buds are now developing nicely, and all the numbers are steady and perfect. For the past 3 days I have had a ph when I test it of 5.88. The ppms have been dropping ~ 50 a day, and the water level has dropped .25" a day. They must have a very strict diet because they are following it perfectly.

Some pictures have shitty lighting due to zooming in and flash area etc.



































































































nom nom nom

What do you guys think?


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## Roseman (Nov 12, 2009)

I think your crop looks just like mine. I am 4 weeks, 4 days into 12/12 now, how about you?


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## bloatedcraig (Nov 12, 2009)

Alright buddy, do you not think now looking back that you should have vegged a bit longer to fill the screen up before flowering.


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

Roseman, I am 38 days into flowering so 5 weeks and 3 days.

Craig, yea well the problem in general is just that I didn't know that I was going to be doing a SCROG at first. So it's not necessarily the fact that I didn't let them veg enough into the screen, but more so that I let them veg, and then plopped the screen on top haha. I definitely now know that you are supposed to have the screen there BEFORE so that they grow into it. Well, you live and learn man. Also, craig, you are always warning about bud rot, but what is it? How do you get it? My buds look beautiful, but you have always kept me on edge about that haha.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 12, 2009)

you have no concern for bud rot, from what i can see. (sorry for speaking for you craig) but every grower has run into one problem along the way, craig's bud rot was my light leaks. make sense? haha something goes wrong in our own grows and suddenly we're warning everyone the dangers of this or that. they look healthy and AWESOME to me, already getting some good frost on those baby buds. you're in for a few more weeks, my sativa flowered for about 2 1/2 months, and uh.. most people told me i could have given her more time. i learned that lesson the hard way, thats why no more sativa for me indoors, maybe one day when i move outside.

tl;dr awesome grow, keep at it, and keep on those ppm's, maybe pick up some bloom booster to dose in a little bit as the ppm starts to drop between res changes.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

Shack, funny you say that, I was thinking the other day about how Murphy comes to visit each grower at least once and shows them his law book. 


I think they look good too, but the ppms actually can't start getting bumped up yet. Just using the recommended dosage on the bottle and being up at 1000ppm I got a tiny bit of downward leaf curl and some coloring. I'm gonna let them chill for a bit. Maybe in like a week and a half I'll swap again and then crank them out. 

I really want to get this harvested before Xmas, but I won't sacrifice the better bud by doing it. I wanted the short flower time, that's why I got the Snow White, so the clones should be a lot of fun and much faster because snow white has a very moderate grow time. I'm 38 days into Flower right now, you think I'll need over another month? I was shooting for like...middle of December. Like I said, I'm going by the plant, not a calendar.


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

Cool, how about no more spam, faggot. gtfo


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 12, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Cool, how about no more spam, faggot. gtfo


hehe


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

Gotta love it


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

Damnit, I think the clones are dying guys. If the tip of the cutting turns brown, are we still in business? They are looking more floppy and much less happy. I think the problem is that my airstone is not bubbling enough. I need to go out to a good store and get another really nice circle bubbler like I use for my mother and the flower tub. The bottom of the styrofoam is definitely not wet enough anymore which makes me think that it's the airstone itself that is dying. The more it gets used, the more it deteriorates and the worse it bubbles. Hpefully I can get something better in there soon.


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## tmsculli (Nov 12, 2009)

Yea, just checked it again. All of the stem tips are browning and the bubble wand is doing great......right in the middle. I put it on a diagonal now and basically I am sacrificing two of the clones. The two holes that are now getting great bubbles should still work out unless the brown tip means it has gone too far.


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## Knickers (Nov 12, 2009)

Damn spam, ridiculous how some people are so rude and selfish.... .... .....

Sculli mang this cloning thing is getting on my nerves now lol! Crank up this bubbles son! If you simply can't get more bubbles on the stem, then submerge them in the water. The water is oxyginated so the plants won't suffocate, and cloning plants in water is about the second oldest method after just putting them in soil.


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## tmsculli (Nov 13, 2009)

Yea I know man, if it's pissing you off imagine how I feel?!?! I know I just need more bubbles, but I don't have the time or money to make that happen at the moment. Sadly the shitty pet store right next to me never has good air stones.

Also, if the tip of it is brown, is it still good to go? Now the bubbles are good enough on at least 2 of them, but they are tossing water at a brown tipped stem, is this a futile effort?


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## tmsculli (Nov 13, 2009)

Well, to my surprise, none of the clones are dead, and none are looking badly at all to be honest. That being said, still had brown tips, soooooo I chopped them off. I did it quickly in one clean cut and chucked it right back in the water. I am hoping that this fresh cut will get things rolling now that I have the system set up more properly. 
Big Momma is finally happy again. She is getting her color back and all the pruning I did made her very happy.
The Flowering ladies are doing well too. Not too much noticeable growth from last night, but they are still cranking along. I was thinking about getting additional suplements, nutrients, and boost type things. Do you guys recommend any? Like a solution for faster buds, bigger buds, healthier buds, something like that. Is there a product that really is worth buying that makes a noticeable difference? In my grow bible there is a comparison in which the grower put sugar in the reservoir in the last 6 weeks of the grow, and the bud weight increased by 20% I know I am beyond the 6 week point, but I'm curious if adding some now would help?

yea I know, someone is going to bust my balls about offering to buy those, but not an airstone. I'll buy a nice airstone, I promise haha. Although, if these clones keep on cranking how they are I may not need them.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 13, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Well, to my surprise, none of the clones are dead, and none are looking badly at all to be honest. That being said, still had brown tips, soooooo I chopped them off. I did it quickly in one clean cut and chucked it right back in the water. I am hoping that this fresh cut will get things rolling now that I have the system set up more properly.
> Big Momma is finally happy again. She is getting her color back and all the pruning I did made her very happy.
> The Flowering ladies are doing well too. Not too much noticeable growth from last night, but they are still cranking along. I was thinking about getting additional suplements, nutrients, and boost type things. Do you guys recommend any? Like a solution for faster buds, bigger buds, healthier buds, something like that. Is there a product that really is worth buying that makes a noticeable difference? In my grow bible there is a comparison in which the grower put sugar in the reservoir in the last 6 weeks of the grow, and the bud weight increased by 20% I know I am beyond the 6 week point, but I'm curious if adding some now would help?
> 
> yea I know, someone is going to bust my balls about offering to buy those, but not an airstone. I'll buy a nice airstone, I promise haha. Although, if these clones keep on cranking how they are I may not need them.


Putting sugar or anything like that (molasses, etc.) in a DWC reservoir is a massive problem.

Imagine cleaning the equivalent of maple syrup out of your reservoir.

Also, I have the same "Bible" (page 280, was actually looking through that chapter last night, ironically enough), and I wonder how legitimate that comparison was - one nug up against another doesn't really seem statistically significant to me, truthfully.

And others will disagree with me, but it's always been my feeling that all the "magic additives" are 95% marketing hype.

Hell, I'm got some Bloombastic, Shooting Powder, and tons of other shit for you for free if you're ever out my way - I've got free samples coming outta my ears.

BTW tmsculli, check out my journal when you get a chance - posted a link to some videos I made.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 13, 2009)

sugar in the tank?! more than likely was he using unsulphured molasses? i would keep away from that in hydro unless you're doing organics with your nutes already.
what happens with molasses (this is in soil) it gets into the root zone and all the beneficial bacteria/microbes living in the soil get a good snack of carbohydrate from the molasses. in turn, the bacteria/microbes create a waste byproduct, (carbon, n-p-k other good things, depending on the microbe/bacteria) this waste byproduct is EASILY absorbed by the roots and straight up the plant. all carbohydrates do in the root system is feed the microbes, wakes them up and gets them back to work feeding your root system. the reason people say it "bulks" is because in the last few weeks of bloom most people are flushing, and that means a lot of the nutrients in the root zone are locked up, there isn't an easy means for them to absorb these nutrients. so you add molasses, and suddenly BAM!! its a buffet for the root system, and the get that last bit of what's left in the soil.

for hydro, i would avoid it. also floranectar from GH, a "sweetener" does not sweeten your buds, trust me.. I KNOW! i would say floralicious and koolbloom by Gen Hydro are worth the dollars. 

floralicious gives your ladies micronutrients so i use it more as a curative, leaves start yellowing in flower i add a little in, instead of "grow" nutrient so that it doesnt shock the plant, but gives it a LITTLE of what it needs you can opt for one part Floralicious Plus or 2 part Floralicious Grow and Floralicious Bloom. if you're using it as a curative i would go for the two part, just in case you need a little grow micronutrient, and just add the bloom in with every res change, worth the money IMO. 

koolbloom is worth the money, its actually a phosphorus/potash boost which during bloom the plants need more of to make bigger blooms. 
koolbloom like i said above, its worth it, it actually has a chemical makeup that makes it worthy during flower. i started and finished flower with liquid, Gen Hydro recommends you start with liquid and finish with dry, something about the dry bulks better i guess... i don't know... long story short, KoolBloom and Floralicious

hope this helps and doesnt confuse you! any questions let me know.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 13, 2009)

Bob and Shack, this is precisely why I asked. While I doubt that Jorge Cervantes would put a trick picture in there, I do believe that details were left out and other variables were at play. That being said, I wont do it haha. 

Bob, if you PM me where "your way" is we can maybe make this happen haha. I'll check your thread in a minute.

Shack, thanks for that explanation, I appreciate it. I'll have to look into Koolbloom and Floralicious. 

I guess I think I need them just because I feel like they are still slow growing and small. For my first grow it's obviously awesome, but I tend to be a go upper-moderately big or go home.


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## cruzer101 (Nov 13, 2009)

"Koolbloom and Floralicious" Yea, good stuff.
You dont have to use it but My guess/estimate would be you will increse your yield by about 20%

I agree, leave the sugar out of it.


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## tmsculli (Nov 14, 2009)

Woke up
Got outta bed
Checked the box,
The clones are dead.


If you didn't get that song reference, I don't blame you, but yea, clones are dead. My bubbles stopped bubbling gentleman. I'm not sure if it was the pump or the stone, but most likely the pump. For some reason it is just substantially weaker than it used to be. Weak to the point that this dual outlet pump was making pussy bubbles from one of the small single air stones. It would usually make that thing errupt. So, now I will be buying yet another air pump, and a very large and nice air stone for the cloner. 

Biggggg night for the buds last night. No idea why, but those ladies cranked out some mass last night. I'll post pics shortly.


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## tmsculli (Nov 14, 2009)

alright, so I went out and got a really nice 60 gallon air pump, and 2 of those big round air stones that I like. I have the cloner bubbling like crazy now, but I am testing the different combos of stones etc to see which way is the best.


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## tmsculli (Nov 14, 2009)

Set it up and took a clone from the better looking Flowering girl and from Big Momma, now I'm late for work. If they survive I will have pics of them tomorrow.


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## Knickers (Nov 14, 2009)

After all that the pump dies lol. Take some bigger clones next time too, 2-4" long should be like 4-8" long IMO. I'm glad you've cloned that bagseed too, let's hope this is your first success!


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## Bob Smith (Nov 14, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Set it up and took a clone from the better looking Flowering girl and from Big Momma, now I'm late for work. If they survive I will have pics of them tomorrow.


Tmsculli, great call on getting a clone from that bagseed - really a smart move, even if you decide that the weed's not that great and you don't keep it (it's nice to know you can if you want).

I'm actually having some cloning issues right now as well, but that's because I'm trying to clone in my E&F table under my 1000HPS with no humidity dome - challenging to say the least, but I'm gonna get it.


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## Knickers (Nov 14, 2009)

Just keep them misted Bob and they'll make it. I can imagine its a pain to do by hand but it will work. The easier but more expensive option is maybe to try a good cloning wax? It acts as a sealant on the plant to reduce moisture loss, same principal as a humidity dome but you just spray it on like a foliar feed.


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## Roseman (Nov 14, 2009)

Man, when I look at those trichs, those beautiful plants, and think way back, about 3 months ago, to when PurpDaddy Was begging you to get a water pump.......
begging you to get the hub........................

you've gone from Grower's grade shcool to completing college friend.

Very impressive.


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## tmsculli (Nov 15, 2009)

Well, I'm going to my PHD in cloning and failing out miserably, Roseman haha.

So, guys, the clones are dead again. That thing is bubbling like a champion. It's a 60 gallon air pump in a 5 gallon res. There are plenty of bubbles. You guys said that if I have enough bubbles I don't need humidity domes, but I can't get them to survive for 20 minutes without the domes. I am really, realllllllly, frustrated and upset about this. I have no idea what I am doing wrong. They have good ventilation, good lighting, not too much heat, plenty of bubbles, 45* cuts, clonex, and a little bit of terrible luck evidently. I am almost to the point where I say fuck it and just play the bagseed game forever, over and over, and suck it up that I wasted 60$ on seeds that never got used and smoked. I'm not bad at things, I'm just not haha. I have never put so much effort, time, and money into something in my life and failed as miserably as this. These fucking clones just will not stay alive.


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## tmsculli (Nov 15, 2009)

Alright, well I got it set up so that I have even more bubbles now, and I raised the water level much higher. Took four new cuttings from the Mother. I decided not to sacrifice another bud from my flowering plants until I get cloning down and know almost certainly that they won't die. HOpefully everything works out better this time.


Also, a while ago I lost the little rubber cap for my ph meter. Now, every day, I have to soak it in the activating solution for a half hour and recalibrate it because the electrode dries out. Is there anything I could do so that I don't have to do this every day?


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## infexion1134 (Nov 15, 2009)

Maybe set it in a shot glass or something similar?


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## tmsculli (Nov 15, 2009)

Yea, I was thinking maybe just keep it sitting in the activating liquid at all times, I doubt it could hurt. It's just frustrated and very time consuming to have to do it every day and not be sure if I am getting correct readings or not.


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## tmsculli (Nov 15, 2009)

Alright, so here are some pictures for today.

Big Momma, Day 76

She is looking much healthier and happier lately, even though I have taken 12 cuttings from her in the last week.

















I wish I could take a picture of her where she looks like a fucking plant instead of....a mass of leaves.. haha

Here are the flowering ladies. Day 41 of Flower for them. They are looking good, but I have noticed that the buds that just happen to be getting good lighting on all sides are growing much faster and fatter. I knew that 360* lighting was the way to go, but I was unaware of the massive difference. I will definitely figure out some sort of additional lighting for the next time around.













































































yup.


Oh! I called the Radio Shack down the street from me the other day and they have a bunch of those magnifiers that everyone gets from there. I will be picking one up this next week.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 15, 2009)

you're not giving your clones NEARLY enough time. rooting takes 7-9 days even the BEST of conditions. stop plugging them in and pulling them the second they wilt.LEAVE EM! lol
it's really not as hard as you think, you're just "overthinking" a little bit. relax let em do their thing. if bubble cloning isn't working for you. plug em in rockwool and put them in a tray with a clear lid.
mist them in the tray daily and you will clone. bubble cloning should be done AFTER you understand the process. i cloned in aerogarden because it did the hard work for me. 

here is a link to my AG cloning attempt 

https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/195196-shacks-aerogrow-8.html

(RIU is having some troubles loading on my computer, so i wasn't able to format that link for you)

i followed the process pretty damn closely, the only difference between cloning there and your clones is that the AG had a drip feed that i took advantage of, otherwise its just a mini bubble cloner.

hope it helps you out my brotha!


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 15, 2009)

Yea, I am definitely overthinking it, I overthink everyhting, but you don't understand shack, I am only pulling these things when they are dead as door nails. I am talking about no consistency 100% laid out on the top and shriveled up at the tip.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 15, 2009)

hmmmmmmmm something funny is going on then. if only i was there looking at the cloner i could say "well theres your problem" lol
dome 'em up! that or look into "plant wax" somehow you need to find a way to help the leaves retain moisture to keep the clone alive until it grows roots and becomes a plant.


Shack

PS 
i'm not sure that link above is working, some bullshit with the RIU servers today
Shack's AeroGrow
i'm linking you to page 8, about halfway down the page the first 6 clones go in (all 6 rooted)
read back if you want, pretty good discussion from some other growers/members


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## Knickers (Nov 15, 2009)

Dammit sculli post pics as I said man! Anyway, domes wax and misting is all the same shit. If you're doing it right it doesn't matter which one you're doing.

That said, look at my AG cloning attempt too. Those plants surely looked more dead than any of yours and they bounced back and rooted!


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## tmsculli (Nov 15, 2009)

I've looked at everyone's everything guys haha. I am misting, doming, and bubbling. I got it all. The ones I have now seem to be doing well, including one that is in rockwool because I decided to give that a try too. Knickers, what do you want pictures of?


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## Knickers (Nov 15, 2009)

Everything dude . If you've seen everyones everything (lol slut) and are keeping them moist then there should simply be no problem. You're saying there is, so I think you should post up pics of anything possibly relevant so you can sort it out.


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## tmsculli (Nov 16, 2009)

Well, Knickers, I decided I'm not posting pictures of these clones until tomorrow haha. They are doing really well, and I don't wanna jinx it *knocks on wood*



now, today is day 42 of flower here they are










































































Some of those buds are plumping up really nicely.


Here is big momma, day 77 of her vegging


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## Fred Flintstoner (Nov 16, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Set it up and took a clone from the better looking Flowering girl and from Big Momma, now I'm late for work. If they survive I will have pics of them tomorrow.


hehe, thats when you know you love to grow plants


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## bloatedcraig (Nov 17, 2009)

alright, plants looking nice man. Here is a pic of mine at 3 weeks old


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## tmsculli (Nov 17, 2009)

Fred, toooo many times have I missed the bus or been late for work because I was tending to my ladies haha.

Craig, those look beautiful man. Bubbleponics is a wonderful thing, eh? haha.

Keep it up man.


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## cruzer101 (Nov 17, 2009)

Hey bud,

Just thought I would pop in and see whats up. 
Looks like that mother is kickin out plenty of clones for you.

Lookin at your flowering girls, nice, By now I would think those stalks are twice the size as they were when you tied them. At this point in the grow I usually check to make sure the ties are not restricting the growth. You can remove them if you need to, the plant will pretty much stay there while the buds grow.


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## tmsculli (Nov 18, 2009)

Hey Cruzer, thanks for stopping by brother. Yea, they have definitely grown a lot haha. Next time I will do a proper scrog and let them grow into the screen instead of forcing a screen on them haha. I looked around and didnt see any ties that seemed to be hurting the plant at all. Honestly I think everything is going pretty well. I'm a little sad that there was so much vertical growth above the screen which makes it muuch harder to get the lower bud spots which is the entire reason for doing a scrog. That being said, I still think I'm going to get a good yield and some good smoke. I'm also thinking that I may be able to harvest the more ripe top buds and then let the lower ones fatten up a bit, but no one has really given me any feedback on that idea.


Well, the clones have now survived three days. I took 4 from Snow White, and 1 of them died, and I took one from the flowering girls and chucked it in some rockwool. The 3 Snow White and the 1 flowering one are all still alive and looking pretty happy. HOpefully everything will keep up and this will work out nicely with great timing to drop those in the system when these girls come out.

I couldn't do my daily data and maintenance to the girls because friends were over, so I was left with some harsher data this morning. The flower tub was down to 5.3 ph and was down an inch of water with a ppm spike up to 1010. Actually, none of it was terrible, so that is good. I added a gallon of fresh water and also through in another ounce of the Flower nutrients. My full nute base was 1000ppm, and I was thinking of getting to like 1200. So I wanted to add 1/5 of the ppm. I went ahead and just added ~1/5 of the flower strength nutes just to see what happens. I was afraid to add the other part nutrients because I was not sure of their effects on the plant, but I figured that the Flower nutrients could probably only help unless completely overloaded. After adding the water and the nutes, the ppm was at 1150, so it wasn't too far off. Is what I did okay? I am going to see if I get a reaction from them, and then debate on how much else to push them like you guys have been suggesting I do.


The mother was down to only 4" of water with a ph of 5.6 and 1060 ppms. Adjusted her back out to 5.85, 950, and 6.5" and she seems happy. 

I really need to get that magnifying glass from Radio Shack because some of these buds are starting to look ripe while others definitely need more time. Is it okay to harvest buds periodically to try adn harvest them all at the proper time? Some have 100% white hairs, while others have 1/2 curled darker hairs, which means that the growth of the crop as a whole is not equal.


Just a few things running through my head, maybe you guys can help me clear it up a bit.


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## tmsculli (Nov 18, 2009)

Alright, here are the clones, on day 3 for them






This one is in the worst shape, but not terrible.












This is the one from the flowering girls that is in rockwool, not set in the bubbler.












With their hats on


Here are the flowering girls, Day 44 of Flower



















































































Now, there are a few buds that are very tall, but incredibly thin, with scarce bud growth. Kinda like they are growing balls of buds instead of a full bud together.

Check it out. They are getting better each day, but why are they like this in the first place?












Oh well, here is an undershot







now, here are some of Big Momma












These pictures actually make her look like a plant!







here you can see my top job that I did early on made a squatty shrub


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 18, 2009)

Awesome pics! Glad to see the cloning is working out for you! I have no doubt all clones will be a success!!
As for a staggered harvest? SURE! There is nothing wrong with that, don't take too much though, just snip a few decent looking buds in about a week or so, dry em, smoke em, if they're good come back for more. check out the GrowFAQ for some dry/curing methods for test buds like that.
With that said, from what I see you could stand to wait another week possibly two before pulling ANY buds off those girls. I think you'll miss out on some good bulking action that is probably going to occur for the next week (or 2... or 3...) 
I've pointed it out before, those girls are VERY sativa, so they like to pack the weight on slow. That bud you refer to as long, but only balls instead of solid nug, the next few weeks will change all of that. Especially with you stepping up the ppm the way you have. which by the way, what you did is totally cool... if your ladies can handle it. the plant is the ultimate judge. what you told us you did sounds fine to me, i don't think it will hurt your plant. but as you said yourself, you'll just have to see how she reacts.

keep up the good work, you are kicking ass so far!


Shack


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## Roseman (Nov 18, 2009)

I saw your questions on stressing them. On page 53 here is how I stress them, to get more trichs and buds.
Roseman's DIY Bubbleponics Tutorial - Marijuana Growing

I'll be back later to answer your questions, bro.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 18, 2009)

Glad to see that you seem to have cloning under control - now that wasn't too hard, was it?


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## bloatedcraig (Nov 18, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Fred, toooo many times have I missed the bus or been late for work because I was tending to my ladies haha.
> 
> Craig, those look beautiful man. Bubbleponics is a wonderful thing, eh? haha.
> 
> Keep it up man.


I think it is absolutley crazy the speed they grow at, compared to my last grow.


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## [email protected] (Nov 18, 2009)

MMMM looking tasty for a CFL grow. I like it.


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## tmsculli (Nov 18, 2009)

Shack, yea I figured I am still a bit far away from even the top buds let alone the whole crop. I was thinking about doing the harvest when ripe per bud kinda deal because I am really in no rush to get them out. If I was SOGing than I would have shit to do, but at this point I have no problem with letting them chill a bit. I am hoping that those skinny ones do something because that's way too much stem room haha.

Roseman, I already read that this morning haha, that is actually the reason I asked you those questions, is because I was reading it and had a few thoughts about it. haha

Bob, don't you dare jinx me now boy.

Craig, that shit is ridiculous haha. Definitely a believe it when you see it kinda deal. Remember back a few months...you weren't even close to being sold on it haha.

Doja, thanks for stopping by brother. I appreciate the comment man, I'm trying to milk the most out of these cfls that I can haha.


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## Knickers (Nov 18, 2009)

4 day old clones has to be a record right? 

Anyway sounds like youre getting back on track with the plan my man. Keep it up!


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## tmsculli (Nov 18, 2009)

Haha, yea Knickers, it is. Surely no world record, but within this bathroom, it is setting records every second. hahaha


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## purpdaddy (Nov 19, 2009)

Sculli you gonna have a shit pile of bud man!

Plants look AWESOME! Many branches!


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## tmsculli (Nov 19, 2009)

purpdaddy said:


> Sculli you gonna have a shit pile of bud man!
> 
> Plants look AWESOME! Many branches!


That's the plan my man! Thanks for the kind words, I'm tryin' my best brother!


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## tmsculli (Nov 19, 2009)

ugh, waiting for 30 minutes to go by so I can have my working ph meter. Then I can do my daily dealings with them haha.

I will go snap some shots of them now though, clones too!


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## tmsculli (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm so fucking pissed at my ph meter. I don't trust it anymore, and don't know what to do. I am activating it and calibrating it properly according to the instructions, but the readings just don't make sense. I am afraid to risk my plants' health fucking with phs that aren't correct.


On a different note, here are some pics. 

Day 45 of Flower

























































TRIPPY






Those skinny buds are starting to fill in pretty nicely like Shack had suggested they would. I also see 0 negative effects from that additional nutrient load. That being said, the ppms dropped back down with no change in water level so they really liked the extra nutrients and ate them right back up. I'm thinking about tossing in another ounce of the Flower today.

Clones day 4



























No roots yet, but they are still alive, which is all I can ask for at this point haha.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 19, 2009)

don't be afraid to leave the domes on the clones for a little bit each day. no more than a hour at the most. just encourages the plant to seek other sources of hydration i.e. grow roots. just enough to remind the plants who's boss and that they need to grow roots to survive lol. everything looks awesome. happy to hear the girls enjoyed the extra snack!


Shack


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## Bob Smith (Nov 19, 2009)

They're fine, they're gonna root - the flowering one will take longer, so be patient.


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## tmsculli (Nov 19, 2009)

Uhhh I've had the domes on 24/7 and been opening them maybe like...3 times a day for a few minutes...


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 19, 2009)

oops!! i meant leave the domes OFF for like a hour each day!
sorry about the confusion. taking them off here and there a few minutes each day is well enough.
i have no doubt these will root, if they've made it this far, they're going to be successful.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 19, 2009)

Ohhh, I figured that's what you meant, but I wasn't completely positive. I hope that they make it man, but I don't see much yet. One of them has a small white soggy kinda tip strand thingy, that's it. One of them is starting to get a brown tip.


Hopefully they will keep on trucking


Blitzted as shit,

tmsculli


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## tmsculli (Nov 20, 2009)

Buds are plumping and clones are....chillin there....so...yea.


huge finance exam in a few hours, time to get my study grind on.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 20, 2009)

Cost of capital = (e/(e+d))*cost of equity + (d/(d+e)*[cost of debt]*(1-t).

That shit's cake, bro.


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## tmsculli (Nov 20, 2009)

Actually, this exam is only on the Stock Market, which is awesome because that is what I am most interested in. Sad thing is that a lot of it actually is pretty hard at times. Having a hard time breaking down the formulas, but it's the only way to do it. For a while I was completely lost because you never used the same equation from problem to problem, but now I am starting to see how to manipulate them a bit. Just using equations like:

Pt=Do (1+g)^t / (R-g)
Dt=Do(1+g)^t
R=D1/Po + g
Po = D1/(1+R)^1 + D2/(1+R)^2 + D3/(1+R)^3.... =SUM(Dn/(1+R)^n

blah blah blah

Then just like the terminology of the market. Broker, Trader, Dealer, Member, NYSE, NASDAQ, aspects of markets, 3 types of market efficiency etc.

fun fun fun

In the last 3 hours I have had a great breakthrough with it and my F mentality has bumped to a C or so which is great.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 20, 2009)

I'd come out there and take it for you - you should've let me know earlier, would've sent you some of my CFA study stuff.

Looks like you're just doing basic valuations - if you get stuck, just remember that the intrinsic value of any security is simply the discounted future value of its cash flows.

Knowing that concept, you can generally back into whatever answer you need - just don't forget to discount the future values back to present by using the discount rate.

Good luck.


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## tmsculli (Nov 20, 2009)

Haha, I love that I know almost exactly what you are talking about haha. 

Thanks man,



Oh, and the clones look good still, no real changes. I am leaving the domes off for a few hours today and going to see what happens. I just got lost in my closet staring at those buds for 10 minutes, they are getting really fucking big guys haha. I know they aren't THAT big, but I feel like for a first grow and also after Trim-Tragedy 2009, this is some seriously good shit haha.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 20, 2009)

Honestly, if the domes are working for you, then great, but I've never used domes in my bubble cloner or the E&F clone that I got to successfully root.

Regardless, if you're going to use the domes, take them off for longer and longer each day to harden the clones and prevent any stem rot from excessive moisture.

Good luck; now time to go build my fluorescent palace.


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## tmsculli (Nov 20, 2009)

Well, I had them off for about 3 hours today and....they look terrible. This leads me to think that those plants weren't even thinking about rooting previously and were just living off of the humidity and the misting. I hopefully saved them and things will still work out.

My ph meter is also fucked. I'm so sick of that thing. I don't trust it and being at this crucial spot in the grow and not being able to avoid stress by keeping my plants smooth is terrible. I am going off of instinct and forecasts I kinda thought up from looking at the old info. That being said, they are still really healthy and I don't see any problems. 


Now, what kind of ph meter do you guys suggest? I liked the one I have, but ever since I lost that rubber cap I'm never positive if it's reading correctly and calibrating properly. I would like to buy a nicer one, but the money is going to fucking suck. Do any of you guys have any brands or specific meters they suggest? It would really help me out.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 20, 2009)

I have a $30 Hanna off of eBay that works like a charm.

Eventually I'm gonna upgrade to a meter in each reservoir which measures EC/pH/PPM and never needs calibrating, but my cheap eBay ones are working fine.

That'd be my suggestion.


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## tmsculli (Nov 20, 2009)

I have that same 30$ hannah, the white one with the small rubber cap?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 20, 2009)

Negative - mine's red with a black cap.


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## tmsculli (Nov 20, 2009)

Ah, I know the one you are talking about. How often do you have to calibrate yours? Also, does it have that small rubber black cap? it's probably the same one. Basically, I lost that cap, so now the electrode dries up on me and i don't trust it. Do you think it's worth getting another one?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 20, 2009)

Definitely worth getting another one, and after not calibrating for a month and realizing how off I was, I'm planning on calibrating every two weeks, if not more often.

Takes about two minutes and is well worth it - pretty easy for me as well - once I calibrate to the 7.01, the 4.01 comes out exactly on, so I'm not fiddling with them for very long.


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## tmsculli (Nov 20, 2009)

See, I was told to calibrate mine to 6.88 and 4.01 because of the air temp? I dunno man haha. Wonder if I can find any cheap ones


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## Bob Smith (Nov 20, 2009)

This is the one I have, works great.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SALE-NEW-HANNA-HI98107-98107-PH-METER-TESTER-CHECKER_W0QQitemZ310182622325QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4838533475

And as far as the calibration goes, I don't really care about .1 difference either way - going to the hundredth is kinda silly, IMHO.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 20, 2009)

as far as calibration goes, i use the 7.01 fluid. i don't even deal with 4.01. you're look for 5.5 - 6.5 in your res, so why deal with the 4.01 is the way i look at it.
i picked up a cheap one off amazon and it works just fine.


Shack


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## Knickers (Nov 20, 2009)

Go liquid ph stylez.. If mine isn't workin I just rinse and go again :/


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## tmsculli (Nov 20, 2009)

Knickers, it's beyond that at this point man, I've been messing with it for a week. I'm gonna have to get a new one =/

liquid ph stylez? does that mean the little drops in the water tube? That is what I have been using haha


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## Knickers (Nov 21, 2009)

Yeah thats what I'm talkin bout!

Obviously has the major drawback of not being able to calibrate etc, but it's served me well, and generations before.


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## tmsculli (Nov 21, 2009)

Yea, I used it for the first...25 or 30 days of growing with just my Snow White mother. It did serve me well indeed, but I want it to be more accurate I guess, especially because I keep track of all of my plant data in a spread sheet. I will most likely order another one today. It sucks, but I'll get over it I guess. the only thing that I realize now is that the one that Bob has that I like is really wide, so it can't fit into the calibration fluid container, which means, I'd need to put it in another container, which means that I need to get more haha.


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## tmsculli (Nov 21, 2009)

Twas painful to toss that $55 at the world, but the deed is done. Now I just have to remember to hustle the hell out of myself at work, work my charm and get some good tips haha.


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## tmsculli (Nov 21, 2009)

God damnit, something happened last night I guess, because the clones look terrible. The leaves are really dark and curled up and shitty. They are still alive, but shitty. Making me think it had something to do with the water or bubbles because the one in Rockwool looks just fine. 

I'll chuck some pics up shortly.

Also, the flowering girls are loving this additional Flower nute. I can't get the ppms that high because they just keep eating that shit up. Either way, I am definitely seeing gains due to the additional nutrients.


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## tmsculli (Nov 21, 2009)

Clones day 6:






















Flowering ladies, day 47 of Flower:


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## Roseman (Nov 21, 2009)

Well,,,the flowering ladies look great!


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## tmsculli (Nov 21, 2009)

Haha, there you go Roseman, keep it on the bright side.


Shack, you were definitely correct on that call about them being more Sativa and blooming later. Actually, I am thinking that the left plant is very very sativa and the one on the right has a bit more indica in it, but still very sativa. The right plant is staying low, making big fat bulky buds and the left plant is stretching vertically a lot and filling in tall skinnier buds at a slower pace.

weed is weed.



and currently, I have none.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 21, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> weed is weed.
> 
> and currently, I have none.


haha i hear that!! i'm ready to get my next grow started. smoked my last joints from last harvest last night!!

oh and don't be surprised if the one you consider to be more sativa never gets FAT nugs. Sativa's are known for slightly more airy/wispy buds than the dense, bulky indica nugs. BUT under the right conditions you could definitely pull of some serious sativa nuggage. (which you may very well have!! it looks GREAT!)

oh and check my DIY Grow Tent thread, i posted a great find on a 120mm PC Fan WITH Power Cord (no wiring required) might come in handy if you ever need to rethink your grow space. 


Shack


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## Knickers (Nov 22, 2009)

Your clones got too hot by the looks of it mate


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## tmsculli (Nov 22, 2009)

Shack, I'll definitely take a look man. I'm definitely completely unsure as to where I am going progression wise in growing, but I can still benefit from the information.


Knickers, see, but only the ones in the bubbles got fucked up. Could it possibly be that the bubbles maybe stopped and then they had no moisture and heated up? Maybe I accidentally pinched the air line and didn't realize it. There would be no way to prove it because I move the air pump off of the lid to open it up, which means that I would have released the pinch. I looked in and saw bubbles, but there may not have been any before.. hmmm


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## tmsculli (Nov 22, 2009)

Oh Oh! I also wanted to say this. Those flowering ladies have a very very distinct scent. The big buds are crazy. If you gently with one finger tap a bud, your finger will be incredibly sticky and smell like lemon! It smells so delicious!


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## Roseman (Nov 22, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> God damnit, something happened last night I guess, because the clones look terrible. The leaves are really dark and curled up and shitty. They are still alive, but shitty. Making me think it had something to do with the water or bubbles because the one in Rockwool looks just fine.
> 
> I'll chuck some pics up shortly.
> 
> Also, the flowering girls are loving this additional Flower nute. I can't get the ppms that high because they just keep eating that shit up. Either way, I am definitely seeing gains due to the additional nutrients.


Do you have a cat? LOL, sorry, it ain't funny.

What did happen to them?


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## tmsculli (Nov 22, 2009)

I have 2 cats, but I don't get it at all. haha

I have no idea.


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## Roseman (Nov 22, 2009)

I was thinking maybe the cat pissed on the clones!


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## tmsculli (Nov 22, 2009)

Ah, nope, cats aren't allowed in there haha. Sadly, those 3 clones are gone now. They looked fucking terrible today, all shriveled, no substance to them. 5th times the charm? Fuck man. Here we go again.


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## cruzer101 (Nov 22, 2009)

This must not be the month for clones man.
I just lost some too. I think I had the heat mat to high.


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## tmsculli (Nov 22, 2009)

Sorry to hear that Cruz. 

I just took 3 new cuttings and did them the best that I could. I am hoping that Murphy will go away and bug someone else for a while. Hoping for the best.


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## tmsculli (Nov 23, 2009)

Hey guys, just a little update for ya. I had one clone die overnight, so I pulled it and replaced it with a new one. I also decided to take another cutting and put it in rockwool and have that in there too. So, now I have 3 Snow White clones in the bubbler, 1 Snow White clone in rockwool, and 1 Clone from the bagseed I'm flowering now. I am getting more confident with all of it and I should have some good results soon. Hopefully the one flower cutting in the rockwool will show some roots soon. She had a little too much moisture and got a little bogged down today, so I'm trying to dry her out a bit.

The Flowering girls look great. Starting to see some more of the hairs draw back and color, but still have a while to go. No huge noticeable growth, but definitely still growth. The sharp lemon scent is becoming more and more apparent by the day, I hope this has a nice citrusy taste to it! I have been tossing 1 fluid ounce of the Bloom nute in there every other day, which bumps the ppm from about 1000 to around 1200. I have been doing that about every other day, and I see a tiny tiny bit of downward curl from a few leaves, so I am going to let them chill for a bit longer before trying to push again. I am too nervous to pump up to like 1200 or 1300 and keep it there not to mention I'm not positive how to maintain such levels.

I have also realized that Big Momma needs some loving. She likes her box, and fills it in nicely. She also doesn't grow any taller and likes her distance from the reflector hood. The top is lush and bushy as hell, but the bottom is getting very sparse and shitty. I really need to get some type of side lighting in that box at some point. As of now I can't afford it, so it won't be any time too soon, but it will need to be done at some point. I'm thinking probably what someone suggested months ago to me. Probably get two 2' t5 6500k fluorescents and have them in the back right and back left corners lighting from the bottom of the plant up. I would do all 4 corners, but this way I save money and I also already rotate my plant every day. As long as I keep rotating this shouldn't be a problem at all. Again, I have no idea when this will happen, but it should happen at some point. Do any of you guys know a low price good fluorescent setup that will work here? I have done readings on HID, HPS, T5 etc, but I always get overwhelmed and confused when it comes to ballasts and such. I am looking for a small skinny 2' fluoro tube on the fixture that has the ballast or whatever on it. If any of you guys have any ideas, just let me know.


Have a lot of shit coming up for classes in the next month. Finishing out semesters blows. Hopefully I will still have enough time to keep up with the ladies and keep you guys updated.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 23, 2009)

my advice! go to lowes or home depot and pick up their cheap black light fixtures. then just purchase appropriate sized fluros of the spec you want. 
i had a couple lying around that i use in my "music room" and for when we have house parties. picked up the the right spec and BAM! had some supplemental lighting where/when i needed it.
i think this is a MUCH cheaper option than buying from an online grow shop, or any other light fixture "designed for growing" they're all the same damn thing. a fluorescent light fixture.
when they add the stupid marketing tags "perfect for seed starting" or "supplemental plant lighting" thats what jacks up the price.
black light fixture.. like 20 bucks, replacement "grow" bulb like 3 or 4. versus a 40-60 per light fixture.
AND!! when you have a party, you have black lights at the ready!

thats my cents!


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 23, 2009)

Shack, I'm actually a Marketing student and know all about selling people shit based on a tag or a label haha. I'm also a server currently so I'm all about forcing those add ons. "Would you like to add 4 shrimp to that for $6.99?" "Hell yea I would!"


People are fucking stupid haha.


But yea, I planned on getting those standard general set ups for them, but know nothing about the sizes, the different T values and all that jazz.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 23, 2009)

T5 T8 etc all has to do with the diameter of the tubes you're working with. i THINK most of the fixtures i'm talking about are T8. the the only other concern is bulb length. well, also spectrum, obviously. easy stuff to figure out.


Shack


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## willzgotskillz (Nov 24, 2009)

well my take on all this is you all make way to much work out of it for one stop wasting your money on floros and just get a hps already they are CHEAP keep it simple dwc is the way to go and yes use feeder tubes at first check ph daily add water as needed and feed with nutes its that easy i have 4 grows under my belt all have been successful doing those simple things i use a 600hps with a walmart blower fan and a homemade bubbleponics also from walmart about 20 bucks works perfect JUST KEEP IT SIMPLE ITS JUST A WEED!


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## tmsculli (Nov 24, 2009)

Well Will, you are obviously an expert on everything here, but I can't seem to figure out how to give this journal to you =/


If you had read the thread you would have known that I have significant reasoning for avoiding HPS and other better lighting systems. You're giant run on sentence with no capitalization or punctuation was difficult to follow, but I did successfully come up with the conclusion that you didn't read most of this thread.


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## tmsculli (Nov 24, 2009)

Shack, sounds good brother. Like I said, it is going to be plenty down the road, so there is no rushing into it now.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 24, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Well Will, you are obviously an expert on everything here, but I can't seem to figure out how to give this journal to you =/
> 
> 
> If you had read the thread you would have known that I have significant reasoning for avoiding HPS and other better lighting systems. You're giant run on sentence with no capitalization or punctuation was difficult to follow, but I did successfully come up with the conclusion that you didn't read most of this thread.


LMFAO!!! YOU GET 'EM SCULLI!!! lol


Shack


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## masterd (Nov 25, 2009)

lookin good son, should be moving in a week so i can set my DWC and get crankin, gunna clone some ice into it to start off with.... god damn T i hope i dont have anywhere near as much trouble with cloning as youve had mate, you must of bought a big bag of "bad luck with clones".... never had trouble before, i usually just snip a bit off my plants and chuck it in some dirt with some sand around the cutting... literally 100% success rate, but i cant do that into DWC, ive also helped a mate clone into rockrwool and every one we did survived so it should be good.....

anyway heaps wacked and shit and ive just ranted shit all over ur grow journal... point of this message is.... its looking god damn good, buds forming nicely, got the clones coming along(hopefully) and all that shit son!.... keep cultivating!!!


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## Bob Smith (Nov 25, 2009)

Tmsculli, as someone who just bought some fluoros, I can tell you that in the store (Lowes), the T5s looked MUCH brighter then the T8s or T12s; that being said, I picked up 4 2-light fixtures (4') and 12 bulbs for $90 of the T8s, whereas the T5s were $55 for a 2-light, 2' fixture.

Made much more sense to me to just go with the T8s.


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## bloatedcraig (Nov 25, 2009)

Yo man always love checking in, why not sack the clones off and start another seed grow now and clone when the plant is in veg. With the weed you are going to have, sell a bit and get one of those areocloners (they have a ridiculouse sucess rate). 

You asked a while ago what bud rot was, it is when moisture gets locked in next to and inside the buds and starts to make them go moldy. For gods sake dont be scared to grad your buds and have a look right inside. When i discovered mine its was too late to avoid a big kick in the bollocks, i firstly smelled something in the grow room then i started looking at a bud and as i was looking at it the thing just started pulling away in my hand. It may be good to note that my buds looked beutifull on the outside, they rotted from the inside out.

By the way looking good.


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## tmsculli (Nov 25, 2009)

Thanks for all the kind words guys.

Good to hear from you again masterd. Yea dude cloning sucks haha

Bob, thanks for the tip


Craig, how are those ladies holding up? These clones are getting annoying and I wouldnt mind constantly going from bag seed every time. I just feel like I'm wasting my money because I'm not doing anything with the giant snow white mother I have. I almost don't even want to clone, it's just really annoying. I'm honestly doing nothing wrong, and it won't work, what the hell else am I supposed to do?


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## purpdaddy (Nov 25, 2009)

Hows everything sculli?

i started a lemon skunk grow..bareley starting to crack


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## Knickers (Nov 25, 2009)

I hate to be the rude one to say it sculli, but you obviously are doing something wrong :/

Take it back to basics mate, it should not take this many tries to get a clone to root. You can do eeet!


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## tmsculli (Nov 25, 2009)

Purp, it's going well man, just still not digging cloning.


Knickers, I evidently am, but I can't figure what I'm doing wrong. I have even stopped doing the bubbler for some, just the standard humidity dome deal, and still no luck. I'm getting mad because I could have just had seeds ready to flower by the time these ones are done, instead I'm waiting on these fucking clones. Even the ones in the bubbler are just weird. They look healthy, and have been alive for quite some time, but no nubs, no roots, no nothing. The bottom of the stems start to brown, and I'm assuming I am not going to get roots from a brown stem like that.


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## Knickers (Nov 25, 2009)

Ok my first step would be to fuck off the humidity dome and mist the bitches. I think its obvious here that it isnt a problem of lack of moisture, of they would just straight up die. Now all the humidity dome groupies will flame me, but Ive never used them to clone any other type of plant, so why would I use them for weed? Havent used them yet and havent had issus, though Ive only done "hydro" cloning once, and that wasnt 100%, but 80% aint bad.


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## masterd (Nov 25, 2009)

my advice big T, throw out all the knoledge you have of cloning(if u cant forget it bang ur head really hard on the wall for an hour or stick a pencil up ur nose(worked for chris off family guy, he forgot maths) and then go to the faq, get a new cloning tek and follow it like a christian preaching the bible, dont miss a word.....

this works for me when i cant get something right and dont know whats wrong... well except for the banging the head against the wall or the sticking the pencil up my nose(i need my maths)


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## tmsculli (Nov 27, 2009)

I woke up this morning and Big Momma is brown and smelling like shit. Her ph is okay, the bubbler are going, plenty of water, I guess it was lack of fresh air, my ventilation must not have been up properly. Regardless, I think she may be done guys. I can't get any clones to work, so what's the point of having her if I'm not taking clones from her? Half of me wants to save her and half of me wants to toss her out.


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## Roseman (Nov 27, 2009)

Good Luck to ya!


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## tmsculli (Nov 27, 2009)

Sales Pitch? haha

I do ALL of those things buddy, just not in the mystic cloner. 

Regardless, are you sure you didn't misread that. The clones are still alive, the mother is damn-near dead.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 27, 2009)

mama got issues? i must have missed the post! umm.. nothing to say on that.
just wanted to expand on Roseman and what you've said. You say you have a slow fan on them? 
I guess that just has yet to be pictured? That could make ALL the difference in your cloning regiment.
Other than that uh... nothing to say lol... this post is kinda pointless. good turkey? lol PEACE NIGGA!!!


Shack


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## Roseman (Nov 27, 2009)

you said:

* I can't get any clones to work,* 

so I was just trying to help you. 

Sales Pitch? No, I don't have anything to sell.

Unsubscribed.


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## Shackleford.R (Nov 27, 2009)

roseman, you got a little sass in you huh?
don't think he meant anything by it brotha, it was followed by a "haha"
but one love man, i'll stay outta this beef. just here to watch and help out where i can.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Nov 27, 2009)

No, Shack, you're exactly right. I apologize you took it like that Roseman, that was FAR from my intent. I was 100% joking. I threw that "haha" in there as my disclaimer, but I do understand it may not be completely clear to everyone. I apologize brother.

Shack, I have a passive intake and a computer fan exhaust. THey have the domes though, so the air flow doesn't do anything I would think.


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## tmsculli (Nov 28, 2009)

Well, the flowering girls look great. They just keep getting bigger and those hairs still haven't fallen back at all, so I can only expect them to get bigger. Big Momma is lookin rough, but I'm tryin to save her. She just had no air flow and got too hot. Burned up and killed a lot of the leaves, not sure if I'll be able to bring her back. Clones are all dead expect for 1. If the mother dies then I'm surely just done with clones forever. I'll make a multi plant veg tank in that box and will just run everything from seed. Not a big deal to me really.


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## rreign (Nov 28, 2009)

Just stoppin in to check on your progress skulli..... great job!!


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## tmsculli (Nov 28, 2009)

Thanks for popping in rreign. I have definitely had a few bumps this week, but nothing too catastrophic so far. Not sure if mamma is gonna make it, but I hope she does.


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## tmsculli (Nov 29, 2009)

Well guys, this really fucking sucks, but Big Momma is history. Due to my small mistake it cost me the entire plant. So, my wonderful $50 seed investment actually yielded me 0 smoke. It is obvious for us to all see that I can't clone for shit, so who needs a mother? I guess I will be pulling her from her box and chucking something else in there. I think I'm gonna toss a few seeds in some rockwool, get the bubbleponics back together and start up some fresh seeds. Sounds more fun to me than watching clones die every day haha.


The flowering ladies are huge. The more I lift the lights, the more 2 of the branches stretch, so they are damn near hugging the lights at the top. I almost want to get some string to tie them sideways a bit. I'll get pictures up for you guys later.


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## purpdaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Tie em up and bend em man alotta peeps do that!

You can bend em to make grow in the direction u want em to.


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## tmsculli (Nov 30, 2009)

Alright guys, so a lot has happened over the past few days and I haven't been around much, but here is a nice little update for you guys. 

I am sad to say that my Snow White mother, the only survivor of the original 5 snow white sisters, is officially dead. It was completely my fault, and now I have learned from my mistakes. I altered how I was doing the intake for her veg area, and didn't realize that after changing the method that I would be with family for a few days due to the holiday. Regardless, it's over now, and I have that whole box to have fun with now!!

All, but one of the clones has died. The survivor is not domed, is farther from the light, is getting misted a lot, and is getting plastered with bubbles. I am hoping that she will root up, it would make my day. I am going back to the KISS method now that I have that big open veg box though. I am going to buy a simple, easy, cheap plastic clone dome kinda thing, chuck some cuttings in rockwool, and let them sit in there in the veg box. This way they won't get too hot, they won't be in a small area etc. I am hoping that keeping it simple will help me out. The reason I hadn't kept it simple before was because I literally had no other options. I know that the cloning failures have frustrated you all just as much as me, but it's because the way that I was doing it was the best that I was able to conjure up given those circumstances. Regardless, it's all in the past!

So, what's the plan? Well, I have those 2 delicious ladies flowering up amazingly and they should be ripe for the picking in about 2 weeks. Christmas weed, christmas weed, mmm mmm mmm mmm mmmmm. That sentence was funnier to me than you because I typed it to the tune of jingle bells. Try it out. Anyway, they are doing great, and are in that tub that has 9 holes in. I tossed a few seeds in some water to start germing them up, just some more bagseed. I am going to keep perpetually growing bag seed and every few weeks or so, transfer more into the flower tub. Doing it this way I should be able to get a nice perpetual grow going even though I'm going from seed each time. I will be using a 5 gallon bucket with 4 holes in the top and bubbleponics to start the seedlings out. I am thinking that I want to make some sort of barrier between the root systems of each plant in there. I may not need it, because they won't be too big before they get transferred to the flower area, so we will see how that works out.

Sorry for that wordy post guys, my adderall is crankin' right now haha.



Here are the ladies as of Day 77 total growth and day 56 of Flower. Shack is definitely right, they are taking longer than expected most likely because they turned out to be a bit more sativa, but that is not a big deal.

I tied over one of the taller stalks to get some more even growth on it and get it away from the lights, but the rest are still just hanging out. I have been eyeing up the buds in relation to what amounts look like weighed out, trying to guess my yield. I know there are incredible amounts of end factors, but I'm thinking somewhere are 2.5 oz. What do you guys think? There is a shit ton of bud in there haha.


































































































Mmm

Definitely time to get that microscope!


Question though for you guys. I know before I talked about harvesting the bigger buds first and letting the smaller ones grow longer, but it looks like most of the lower, smaller, buds are the ones that are getting the most receding hairs. Is this going to still be possible?


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## tmsculli (Dec 1, 2009)

The girls are looking great. After I took those pictures in my last post, I tied down the two tall stalks almost completely horizontal and overnight this has inspired great vertical growth of buds. Kinda like LSTing that single branch I guess. 

I knew I would get impatient before harvest so I purposely let two lower growth buds grow under the screen. One got clipped today, adn the other will be clipped the next time I feel liek I can't wait haha. After clipping it and just hung it to dry with a slow fan on it. Is there anything else I need to do? I know it's not going to smoke well, because it's full of nutes and not dry, but can I just chuck that shit in the pipe and smoke it now? haha.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 2, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> The girls are looking great. After I took those pictures in my last post, I tied down the two tall stalks almost completely horizontal and overnight this has inspired great vertical growth of buds. Kinda like LSTing that single branch I guess.
> 
> I knew I would get impatient before harvest so I purposely let two lower growth buds grow under the screen. One got clipped today, adn the other will be clipped the next time I feel liek I can't wait haha. After clipping it and just hung it to dry with a slow fan on it. Is there anything else I need to do? I know it's not going to smoke well, because it's full of nutes and not dry, but can I just chuck that shit in the pipe and smoke it now? haha.


Couple things:

Don't think those are gonna be ready to cut in two weeks - I'd say New Years at the earliest, but get a microscope and check it out.

The nutes won't affect taste - I've never flushed and never had any impact on my taste - flushing is for soil grows (and overferted ones at that), not bubbles (this is of course only my opinion based on my experiences, others will disagree).

Finally, growing from bagseed each time is a beat call - you need to have an idea of each plant's genetic makeup before you start growing it, as much as is possible - you're gonna get duds and weak herb from certain plants (certain plants will be strong with good herb), so I'd keep on cloning until I got it right, so I'd only have the strong plants with the good herb - also, I'd find some more indica dominant seeds to grow, especially since you're keeping them short (heavier yields and lower flowering time).

Anyhow, good luck, and sorry to hear about your mama.


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## tmsculli (Dec 2, 2009)

You've got some good points Bob. Really, you think it's even going to be later than that? New Years, really? That sounds a bit far, but I guess the damage I did early on kinda screwed me. Hmm, I really wanted to get it smokeable before my trip leaving on Jan 2, I will have to wait and see I suppose. Good to know that I don't really need to flush, I wasn't too sure of that. Bob, also the pictures don't really do the 'garden' justice. There are a lot of buds on there that I would bet are almost ready to go, but obviously there are plenty that aren't. I really do want cloning to work man, hopefully I can save the one remaining Snow White clone that I have now. I have one living clone that I am keeping alive and hope I can root it because I would love to grow her into another mother, and then get clones from her. I know bagseed isn't really 'safe' in any of those senses, but it may be what I have to do for a bit. I just get so upset when I know that I could shorten my grow time and hold onto good strains forever with cloning, but that I couldn't pull it off. Nothing more to do now than try my best and wait. I have 4 seeds germing that I'll get working soon regardless of whether or not that clone starts working out for me.


So, that bud that dried over night was kinda dry this morning so I smoked it up. It was a little harsh, and still a bit too wet, but it got me baked. Huge head high and good smiles and laughing. Definitely excited to smoke it in full force. I'm assuming the combination of the more Sativa strand and the early 'clearer' trichromes would explain the more head high than rock stone body?


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## Shackleford.R (Dec 2, 2009)

that's how my sativa was. my girl and i smoked my unknown sativa and were just WOW!! lol don't know how to describe it. we'd jam and draw and all sorts of creative shit. it's definitely one that gets the mind going, instead that overall body don't wanna move stone. take bob's advice... i harvest (compared to your grow, work with me on this) probably about 2 1/2 weeks from where you are now, and i could have gone twice that. if nothing else the weight! they bulk up towards the end of their lifecycle. to get a better idea of what is should look like google/youtube some outdoor grows, that are primarily sativa strain. the colas on those things can get as fat as 1 liter soda bottle, if not more. that's what your girls WANT to do, so they will try their hardest. let 'em bloom and you WILL be rewarded.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Dec 2, 2009)

Dude, I could believe that they get super fat as soda bottles. Right now there are two buds in there are have a diameter of ~2" while many of the others are really tall and skinny. I have seen that they are starting to fill in nicely along the sides though which is good. Also bending down those two branches has started awesome vertical growth on them.


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## purpdaddy (Dec 3, 2009)

Yup its really time to get a scope now!Lookin greaat bro


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## tmsculli (Dec 3, 2009)

Purp you better help me keep an eye on these ladies to get a ballin timed harvest


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## tmsculli (Dec 4, 2009)

Ladies look absolutely great. They don't like being pushed on the ppms though, so I am just going to keep them moderate. They have had downturned leaf tips for a week or so now and I haven't pushed them much so I'm not going to push my luck. They are sitting at 5.8ph, 1250ppms and just got a new gallon of fresh aqua so I hope they will keep on keepin on. Starting to see a lot more frosty popping out so I hope that continues. I am going to do the cold night trick before harvest though. Whenever I feel liek they are about ready for harvest, I am going to turn on the AC and keep it around 58 in the house. That will put them into survival mode and kick out some more trichs.


Clone is still alive and pumpin, still no roots though. I found a heating pad and stuck it under the little tank to try and warm up the water. I read that clones like warmer rooting areas, so maybe this will help.


School is ridiculous right now, but almost done the semester. Once that is all over hopefully I can do some big things for my girls.


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## Shackleford.R (Dec 5, 2009)

not only will the survival thing create more trichs. often times induces a "purpleing" or "blueing" of the buds. saw a photo on here somewhere of a dude that grew bagseed and kept his temps LOW at night so they would color up, just to make his bagseed look purty! if you wanted to do that, keep it cold at night for the last week. and on the last day put them in darkness for 24 hours.

or don't! it's your grow!

glad to hear all is doing well. have you stopped by my tent grow? i have some seedlings popping up finally!! link is in my signature.


Shack


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## tmsculli (Dec 5, 2009)

Yea shack I do know about the color changes. A buddy of mine's brother grows outdoor and was a little late this year. The random weather we get around here made it drop to like 50 a few days before his harvest and it was awesome. Shit got incredibly frosty over night and got purple. Nothing like trying to push bagseed, but selling it for 10 more a g because it's "that purple shit" hahaha.


No I haven't actually, but I will right now!


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## tmsculli (Dec 5, 2009)

Well, the last Snow White clone has perished, and the tote-o-clones has been made out of order for the time being. 


On a much much much better note, I finally went to radio shack and got my microscope!!!

I checked out the higher buds and many of them still have clear trichomes and need more time. I did find that many of the lower buds are much more frosty and are at the milky stage. I am thinking that this means by the time that the top buds are at about a 2/3 milky 1/3 amber level, the bottom buds are going to be a strong amber. I feel like this will be fine and could be fun because the smokes for them could be significantly different even though they are off the same plant. Am I correct in my thinking of this?


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## purpdaddy (Dec 7, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Purp you better help me keep an eye on these ladies to get a ballin timed harvest


u know ill always check in u bro...this one and another are the only threads i visit besides my own...

I dont go from thread to thread helping anymore,I got 2 infractions from fucking with smartasses that didnt wanna listen..You can always PM me and it sends to my email and i check it on my phone.So u can ALWAYS get in touch with me bro


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## tmsculli (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks brother I really really appreciate that. I am going to need to show you some pictures soon and try and get some help because I am starting to get a little unsure of what steps to take next. I have many lower buds that have cloudy trichs, and brown receding hairs. That means that they are good to go, but the upper buds are completely on different pages. Some upper buds are cloudy and still white hairs, some are clear trichs with brown hairs. actually, I have even just recently had some more vertical growth on some buds where the stem is now showing and I am assuming bud is going to be filling it in? I'll have to show you pictures of what I am talking about, but I have two branches that are about 6" long each and are almost completely bare. They have small small bud development and some hairs, but they are far from filling in. Is it common to harvest and still have giant bare branches like this? Should I try and let them fill in and see how that goes? Then again I come back to my first question from a few weeks back....is it possible and safe to do incremental harvest to certain parts of the plant that seem like they are ready to be harvested before the rest?



Sorry for all the questions, but it's another stage of the growing cycle that I have yet to experience. I asked a lot during germ, now I never ask again about it. I asked a lot during veg, now...never again. Flower, I asked A LOT, now...maybe just a bit more. Harvest, I only know what I have read and I need to couple that with experience that you guys guide me through.


Thanks guys


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## purpdaddy (Dec 7, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Thanks brother I really really appreciate that. I am going to need to show you some pictures soon and try and get some help because I am starting to get a little unsure of what steps to take next. I have many lower buds that have cloudy trichs, and brown receding hairs. That means that they are good to go, but the upper buds are completely on different pages. Some upper buds are cloudy and still white hairs, some are clear trichs with brown hairs. actually, I have even just recently had some more vertical growth on some buds where the stem is now showing and I am assuming bud is going to be filling it in? I'll have to show you pictures of what I am talking about, but I have two branches that are about 6" long each and are almost completely bare. They have small small bud development and some hairs, but they are far from filling in. Is it common to harvest and still have giant bare branches like this? Should I try and let them fill in and see how that goes? Then again I come back to my first question from a few weeks back....is it possible and safe to do incremental harvest to certain parts of the plant that seem like they are ready to be harvested before the rest?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Harvest the ones that are ready and let the others finish....

We can go PM if you want for the drying/curing proces...its a necessity!


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## tmsculli (Dec 7, 2009)

Well, what if they are buds that are lower on the stem? Should I just cut them off and dry them in a rack I make. I originally planned on hanging the stems to dry them, but if I am going to be clipping buds at various times I'm gonna have to make a drying screen. I don't mind doing it in this. It's my grow journal and it's information that helps me with my grow haha, so as long as you are cool about helping me through this thread, I'm fine with it too!


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## purpdaddy (Dec 7, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Well, what if they are buds that are lower on the stem? Should I just cut them off and dry them in a rack I make. I originally planned on hanging the stems to dry them, but if I am going to be clipping buds at various times I'm gonna have to make a drying screen. I don't mind doing it in this. It's my grow journal and it's information that helps me with my grow haha, so as long as you are cool about helping me through this thread, I'm fine with it too!


Sure no prob man just shooting the option out there..but yea make a drying rack or you can dry them in anything really..a drying screen will work..put a small oscillating fan over em and in when they crispy to the touch..turn the fan off a lil while...see if they crispy enough...just to where you hear a crackle or light crunch when touched(not too dry,not too wet).Then the curing process begins!.7-30 days


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## tmsculli (Dec 8, 2009)

Damn purp, I completely forgot about curing too. Man, I really want this bud ASAP. I may end up doing a very small harvest so that I can have it in time for my trip and let the rest cure while I'm gone and have a friend open the jars once a day for me.

Today is Day 63 of Flower for these ladies and they sadly definitely still need time. In fact, in the past few days I found that some branches that were covered 100% in fat bud have now grown an additional inch or so taller and now that stem portion is starting to fill in with bud. I have those two big stems that I keep talking about that are also filling in slowly, but surely. I haven't posted pics in a while so here are a few. For some reason I feel like these pictures are not good representation of what I have going on, but it will work.













^This is one of the tall empty branches that I bent over and tied down. There are two of them and over the past week they have been starting to fill in nicely from bottom to top. They are about 1/2 filled in so at least I know they will eventually completely fill in. 







^This is the bud that is actually my fattest most plump, but then decided to grow another inch or inch and a half stem on top that is now slowly filling in with bud.









































































^ I have changed my lighting a lot during the flowering cycle. It has been how it is now for about 2 weeks and I saw huge improvement in the grow.


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## purpdaddy (Dec 8, 2009)

Looks great bro...there s a window of ripeness for the trichs during harvestMeaning that if you wait too long to harvest you can lose potency..YOu ot the scope so check em out and harvest the ones that are ready,if not let em go a lil longer.

Cure for atleast 1 week before starting to smoke.Then smoke a bud a week later and repeat the process to see how curing the bud longer (full 30 days)makes it taste better!


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## tmsculli (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks purp, good to know. Now, I read that the various states of the trichomes "coloring," if you will, are responsible, in part, for the type of high. Peak of harvest is cloudy trichs correct? I know many people like to do cloudy with a side of amber and all that fun stuff. I have looked through the scope a bunch and at various buds. Sadly, it is kind of hard for me to get in and look at each independent bud to check for ripeness because of the lighting and all being in the way. I will definitely start doing a bit of an incremental harvest then. Just start harvesting the ones that are nice and cloudy with receded brown hairs and go from there.


Oh, purp, I also wanted to ask when you think I should do the temperature change. If you don't know what I am referring to I apologize. I am talking about making the bud drop into it's "Oh shit we really need to pollinate" mode. I am going to crank the AC one night and drop temps to about 50*F or so to make them push out some more trichs and also get a little bit of purpling. I know you are supposed to do that 2 days before harvest, but what about during an incremental harvest? If I were to do it tonight, if it works, tomorrow I should have purple frosty buds all over, but still only some of them would be ripe for harvest. Is it okay to leave those purple frosty guys in there for another week or maybe even more to allow their trichs to get a bit more cloudy and let more hairs recede?

Sorry if that is a little complicated brother, hopefully you understand what I am referring too.


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## purpdaddy (Dec 8, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Thanks purp, good to know. Now, I read that the various states of the trichomes "coloring," if you will, are responsible, in part, for the type of high. Peak of harvest is cloudy trichs correct? I know many people like to do cloudy with a side of amber and all that fun stuff. I have looked through the scope a bunch and at various buds. Sadly, it is kind of hard for me to get in and look at each independent bud to check for ripeness because of the lighting and all being in the way. I will definitely start doing a bit of an incremental harvest then. Just start harvesting the ones that are nice and cloudy with receded brown hairs and go from there.
> 
> 
> Oh, purp, I also wanted to ask when you think I should do the temperature change. If you don't know what I am referring to I apologize. I am talking about making the bud drop into it's "Oh shit we really need to pollinate" mode. I am going to crank the AC one night and drop temps to about 50*F or so to make them push out some more trichs and also get a little bit of purpling. I know you are supposed to do that 2 days before harvest, but what about during an incremental harvest? If I were to do it tonight, if it works, tomorrow I should have purple frosty buds all over, but still only some of them would be ripe for harvest. Is it okay to leave those purple frosty guys in there for another week or maybe even more to allow their trichs to get a bit more cloudy and let more hairs recede?
> ...


Man to view the trichs better...

takt a clipping of a small trim leaf and put it on something that you can see it better on...thats how i always looked at mine if COULDNT see em on the tree cause of the light or position..but..try it.

NO MAN DONT DROP THE TEMPS LIKE THAT IT WILL PUT INTO TEMP STRESS JUST LIKE OVER NUTTING CAUSES YELLOWING,CURLED LEAVES.!!!!!!!!!!!!
Itll turn purple yes but that is an indication that there is LOW TEMP STRESS!!!!
PLEASE DONT DO THAT!!!!


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## purpdaddy (Dec 8, 2009)

A GUY posted a pic in my thread of a purple leaf..but iot was not from genetics like mine will be but from stress you can CLEARLy see!..check it out and tell me if u want yours lookin like that..When the plant is stressed ;trichome production is put to a hault or COMPLETE stop until recovered.


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## tmsculli (Dec 8, 2009)

Purp, a lot of people do the temp drop as I have said, so it can't be all that bad. Maybe the temperature I gave was too low, but it was just a random temp I threw out. I know that it is usually done at the end of the grow like I said, which means that if it does cause stress that maybe it doesn't matter at that point. I do agree that probably doing it with an incremental harvest is not a good idea. I was not going to do it for the purpling though purp, because what you said was actually not entirely true I think. The temperature drop (one that is within a certain range) makes the plants think that it is getting close to winter because of the cold weather. This makes the plant go into what I have called "oh shit" mode where they pull out all the stops to do the only thing that they are on the earth to do, which is get pollinated by a male. To increase chances of pollination, they increase trichome production to make the bud stickier and increase the chances of catching pollen. While this is what I am looking for, yes it does also cause cause a slight purpling of the bud, not the leaves necessarily. I think that we may be talking about two different conditions purp.


Regardless, I will take your advice and hold off on it for now until I learn a bit more about it.


I did build a nice little drying rack though actually. I took the tote that I had my clone system in and took all that shit out. I found a square screen shelf and it fit perfectly in the box. I lined the bottom of the tote with aluminum foil to catch any resin and the rack is about 5" from the bottom of the tote. The tote has 2 passive intake holes at the bottom and one computer fan exhaust at the top. This draws the air from the bottom to the top through the screen, drying the bud. I also took one of my small Mackey fans and placed it outside one of the passive intake holes just to expedite the airflow a little bit. I think that it should work pretty well.


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## purpdaddy (Dec 8, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Purp, a lot of people do the temp drop as I have said, so it can't be all that bad. Maybe the temperature I gave was too low, but it was just a random temp I threw out. I know that it is usually done at the end of the grow like I said, which means that if it does cause stress that maybe it doesn't matter at that point. I do agree that probably doing it with an incremental harvest is not a good idea. I was not going to do it for the purpling though purp, because what you said was actually not entirely true I think. The temperature drop (one that is within a certain range) makes the plants think that it is getting close to winter because of the cold weather. This makes the plant go into what I have called "oh shit" mode where they pull out all the stops to do the only thing that they are on the earth to do, which is get pollinated by a male. To increase chances of pollination, they increase trichome production to make the bud stickier and increase the chances of catching pollen. While this is what I am looking for, yes it does also cause cause a slight purpling of the bud, not the leaves necessarily. I think that we may be talking about two different conditions purp.
> 
> 
> Regardless, I will take your advice and hold off on it for now until I learn a bit more about it.
> ...



instead of dropping the temp to make em do that..we start "WITH HOLDING" nutrients,,,meanin giving them a lower PPM to make all the stored food in the foliage to be used up not by stressing with temps...
But what did i say was untrue? Pleasecorret me if u think im wrong bro but trust me this aint my first rodeo,,not nearly.


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## purpdaddy (Dec 8, 2009)

i don't want mine lookin like this...maybe after i chopit,,,but i dont see heavy trich production on here..i could see if it was really frosty and dank lookin...but it looks like mid


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## tmsculli (Dec 8, 2009)

Purpling on the leaves is not what I'm talking about though. Every time that I have seen it done there are just small purple flowerings on the bud, and that's it. I do know that temp stress causes the plant to seize, but I don't think that what I was talking about would throw it into that deep of a stress.

Either way it's all good brother, I'm not trying to argue I'm trying to learn. I by no means meant to offend you or your knowledge of this because I know you have been through all of it before.


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## purpdaddy (Dec 8, 2009)

Ohhh.....ok man i see what u saying about lowering the temps but we WITHHOLD the nutes...just another way of doing it and better by NOT stressing it..You can do it either way,,but i would say it slows production down a lil but,,try it and see!


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## tmsculli (Dec 8, 2009)

I just read a lot about trying to make the plants work a little bit harder during the end of the grow. Obviously this causes stress, but as long as the stress is minimal, and more importantly, that it is regulated, it can be useful in the grow. It is true that certain stressing conditions do cause the plant to produce more trichomes, but in the intense conditions like you are saying it is definitely a bad thing. 

Now, withholding the nutes is kind of just like flushing right? I was told a bit ago that I was not going to have to worry about flushing. As of right now the girls are a little mad at me for overfeeding. They have some down curled leaves because I have been trying to push their limits a bit. I got up to 1380 and then they looked pretty upset so I backed it down around 1100. Should I just slowly bring the ppms down until the end of the grow?


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## purpdaddy (Dec 8, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Either way it's all good brother, I'm not trying to argue I'm trying to learn. I by no means meant to offend you or your knowledge of this because I know you have been through all of it before.


No ma bro,anytime i talk to you,even if i seem to come off lil stiff,remember im NOT,im typing with a smile on my face(never meant to comeoff rude or argue,WE JUSTDEBATE!LOL)
I take time out to check you cause u one of the people of that takes heed and is willing to learn


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## tmsculli (Dec 8, 2009)

THanks man, that means a lot. 

I take heed and am willing to learn about growing with every ounce of learning power I have.


Sadly, I am fucking struggling right now and an emotional wreck trying to study for the 3 exams that I have tomorrow. Fuck man, talk about plant stress, people stress is the fucking worst!


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## purpdaddy (Dec 8, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Now, withholding the nutes is kind of just like flushing right? I was told a bit ago that I was not going to have to worry about flushing. As of right now the girls are a little mad at me for overfeeding. They have some down curled leaves because I have been trying to push their limits a bit. I got up to 1380 and then they looked pretty upset so I backed it down around 1100. Should I just slowly bring the ppms down until the end of the grow?



Flushing is using NO nutes and is done after you are ready to harvest to get the fert taste out the foliage..Fluhing is an option..you aint gotta do it.I didnt flush my last grow and it taste the same as my first grow..Flushing is for people that keep alotta trim on the buds.The trim leaves makes it taste bad so thats the reason behindthat..I trim as close as i can to the bud

Lets say you runnin 1500ppm....lower to 1000 or lower until you see yellowing leaves,,This is done in the last couple weeks before harvest


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## tmsculli (Dec 8, 2009)

Alright, well I am definitely within those last couple of weeks I would say so I think I may start slowly working them down over the next few weeks. Thanks brother.


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## tmsculli (Dec 11, 2009)

So I spent some time this morning looking around at the buds and checking the trichs. I found a few branches that were very cloudy trichs and recessed hairs so I decided to give it a little incremental harvesting. I went ahead and chopped what is probably about a 1/4, but it looks really good. My drying system works great too and made my little sample from last week taste great. So what is the general rule of thumb for this? Dry for 3-5 days until its a tiny bit crunchy and then cure from a week to a month?


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## tmsculli (Dec 11, 2009)

Hello All, today is day 66 of Flower for my girls and like I said above, I decided to start and do a tiny little harvest of what I saw was ready to go. Here are some pictures of the girls that are still up and the few chopped buds.
























































































There you go. How do you think everything looks guys? I really really like the dryer that I set up. The small bud I harvested last week to test the system out dried really nicely and evenly and I had no issues. Hopefully everything keeps looking up at this point. I have two finals next week and then I am done for 2 months wooooottttt!

Cheers


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## Shackleford.R (Dec 11, 2009)

mmmmmmm!!!
you'll be harvesting the rest soon. the leaves appear at the end of their life. they look like they're about to "give it their all" haha if that makes sense. thats one of the things i look at for harvest. as the leaves start to turn yellow and curl and just not look as healthy. means the plant is taking the last of what it can get from those leaves. keep an eye on the health of the leaf as well as trichomes. 

i would say harvest in a couple weeks. they should be getting the last of their weight pretty soon, and those will soon curl, yellow and eventually die and need to be pruned back. that's when i would harvest when the about 50-75% of the upper leaves start to turn. any later than that, you risk missing the peak of potency on the buds.

i don't know this for fact. but my general gardening knowledge leads me to believe it's a good idea. it's how i harvested (my smoke was good) would have been better if not for mistakes along the way...

"too long, didn't read" = everything looks awesome and on track for a harvest in the next couple weeks. your first cut/trimmed buds look nice!! +rep


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Dec 11, 2009)

won't let me rep you.. remind me someday . . .


Shack


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## tmsculli (Dec 11, 2009)

Hahaha, thanks Shack. Yea the ones that I pulled really did look like they were ready to go. I didn't pull much, so even if it is a bit early for them it's not that big of a deal. Glad everything seems to be going according to plan still haha. Yea, did it tell you you have to spread the wealth a little bit on that rep? haha


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## Shackleford.R (Dec 12, 2009)

Yeah it did!! Lol I've had issues with that since I joined. Fucking RIU won't let me rep where it's due. Even when I'm checking 15 threads per day. 


Shack

PS
I hating posting from my iPhone. Lol girls ain't ready to leave the club. 
Grow in peace! Much love!


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## purpdaddy (Dec 12, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> So what is the general rule of thumb for this? Dry for 3-5 days until its a tiny bit crunchy and then cure from a week to a month?


DING DING DING!

YOu won the prize! LOL

thats it bro.


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## tmsculli (Dec 12, 2009)

Haha, purp and shack, you guys are the shit. I really appreciate that you have stuck through this with me and helped me the whole way. The dryer is drying those babies up nicely and the rest are still plumping up just fine. I did notice that on many of the branches that still have vertical growth that can be filled above the current bud area and the trichomes are already milky. Should I wait for that vertical room to fill in with bud or should I harvest it? The bud that is below the additional vertical growth has receded hairs and milky trichs.

Patience is a virtue, so I'm going to slowly be impatient and take a little bit at a time. haha


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## tmsculli (Dec 12, 2009)

Oh and one thing, it's about the smell. The plants as a whole, like the room, smells fantastic, but the bud itself doesn't smell good at all. I have smelled certain med strains, and I've smelled plenty of weed, and I have never smelled anything close to this. It's not a bad smell, but it's not particularly pleasant either. Does the smell end up becoming more "weed" like after curing?


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## tmsculli (Dec 13, 2009)

Well my dryer is a pimp, and that is all there is to it. I let the first bud I harvested dry for 3 days and I think it was a bit too crispy, so I am going to go with 2 from now on (of course outliers may occur). I have that first little like 1/8th o harvest curing now in some Ball canning jars I got. I decided that stoners, grandmas, and shroomers are keeping ball canning alive, and that's good. haha. I also found that there was a pretty hefty branch that had the cloudiest trichomes that I had ever seen and fully receded hairs. I went ahead and chopped that and manicured it and chucked it in the dryer. The rest is still coming along nicely. I still have a lot of open vertical growth on the few branches that decided to grow on me again, so it may still be some time. I just wanted to make sure that I had something ready for my trip 

I will most likely be chopping the rest right around christmas time regardless of how they look at that point. This is because I will be gone for a week in early January and need to have it chopped, manicured, and dried before I leave. One of my house-mates can definitely deal with opening a few canning jars once a day, but they have made it clear to me that they would rather not have to have responsibility with the plants meaning monitoring levels etc, which is completely understandable.

I honestly think that by Christmas they will be looking really good and be ready to roll anyway. They are already frosting up a whole lot and plumping nicely.


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## tmsculli (Dec 15, 2009)

Guys, this bud is fucking monster. It's a one hit and done delicious lemony treat. I couldn't have asked for it any other way.


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## bloatedcraig (Dec 15, 2009)

Nice to hear that it is all been worth while, with that HD camera you use i can just about smell it if i get close enough to the screen.


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## tmsculli (Dec 15, 2009)

haha thanks Craig it's great to hear from you. Yea I honestly have really impressed myself and I'm very proud as well as pleased. Sure I screwed up my clones and wasted the 50$ I spent on those Snow White seeds, but it's all a learning experience. This bagseed has done great things and like I said before, the bit that I have smoked of it has gotten me the best sativa head high that I have ever had. I have a friend that is rich as hell and he chills on med strains every day of the week. I have smoked well over my fair share of strains and none have had this strong of a head high. I am shocked at the quality of this bud and now am incredibly curious how much a good strain matters. As my conditions are now, lights and all, I am re-creating nature the best I can. THis combined with shitty seeds gave me great bud. I'm curious of how much a strong hearty strain combined with these conditions will make a difference. I'm going to be looking to order a multi-pack of nice strains this January to start all over with.

I have harvested about 8g so far and everything is perfect. My dryer speed dries even thick dank buds to the core in under 3 days, it's amazing. I also bought Ball canning jars, sadly you can't buy them in less than 12s. I decided that Grandmas, Stoners, and Shroomers are the only reason Ball is still alive. Three groups of people doing what they love that needs Ball canning jars haha.


Alright I'm procrastinating studying for my last final of the semester I will talk to you gentleman later. THe girls look amazing. There are a lot of buds that are ready to go now, but I can't get to them. Also, a lot of the vertical growth seems to not be filling in with bud. I can't decide what to do. I was thinking maybe to chuck some more FLower nutes in there and hope to get a last minute boost out of them. The issue is that there are huge lower buds about 1.5" diameter and about 2" or 2.5" tall that are cloudy and have rededed hairs, but up top they sprouted another 2" of stem where buds are very very very slowly forming. I don't want to waste the perfect bud underneath waiting for the top bud. I'll give it probably about another week, but I'm not going to risk perfect bud to maybe get some more, you know? 


What do you guys think?


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## Knickers (Dec 16, 2009)

Lookin lovely sculli! Can't spread rep here either it seems lol


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## tmsculli (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks for checking back man. Yea it seems you need to spread rep to way more people than I originally had thought


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## JN811 (Dec 17, 2009)

hey just found this thread good job man looking nice! On my first grow as well, have a sw flowering for about a month. Anyways, I want to build my own bubbleponics system for my next grow.. how much did everything end up costing you for the materials?


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## tmsculli (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks for checking it out man! GOd don't make me think of the number haha. Honestly, the bubbleponics system is pretty cheap to build, I just messed up so much that I spent a shit ton of money in doing so. 

I would say about 8$ for the 18g tub, 25$ for a water pump online, 25$ for a good air pump, $7 for a good airstone, and then you have netpots, airlines, etc.


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## Shackleford.R (Dec 18, 2009)

let's see some pics!


Shack


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## tmsculli (Dec 18, 2009)

Shack, so stoneeeddddddddd. Fine, I'll go get my camera. I harvested more today. One of the buds is bigger than my iPod...... hahaha


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## tmsculli (Dec 20, 2009)

Jesus, sorry guys I got way too baked these first 2 days of my winter break haha. Here are some pictures from a bit ago. They are some good bud shots, some harvest shots and all that good stuff. In harvesting a little at a time like this I have definitely put my plant under stress and now won't see any more growth or completion for another 2 weeks or more. Luckily almost all of the bud is looking perfect and ready to go so today I chopped about half and tomorrow I will finish the job. I will get a final weight for you all as soon as I can and get some mason jar shots for you.


Thanks again for all of your help guys, but it seems that this journey is almost at an end. My only question now is what is the easiest and best way to make hash? haha

Pictures are uploading now gentleman.


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## tmsculli (Dec 20, 2009)

Here you go, they are in no particular order.


























































I'll get some final harvest pics up later this week.


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## tmsculli (Dec 20, 2009)

Sorry some of the pictures suck guys, camera must have been acting up. This is seriously some of the best weed that I have ever smoked and any of my friends. None of them know it's mine, but they all say it's the best bud they have ever had haha. I did some research and I think that it may be a red-headed step child of a power or sour diesel. The lemony taste and bud structure I found made it look like that a bit.


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## Shackleford.R (Dec 20, 2009)

looks like she is trying re-veg. do you have any light leaks? all in all, looks like a damn good harvest. 
chop that bitch soon!!


Shack


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## tmsculli (Dec 20, 2009)

Shack, Nope, no light leaks at all. The problem is definitely that of stress I think. I chopped too much too early throwing it into shock and wanting to reveg those chopped branches. I chopped half today and I'll do the rest tomorrow. I am thinking maybe like 1.5 oz dried, which is less than I was expecting, but not terrible surely. Hopefully that is a low ball number and I will be pleasantly surprised =]


Also think I'm going to be using the blender method to make me some hash within the next week, I'll keep you guys posted on how that all goes.


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## purpdaddy (Dec 21, 2009)

Lookin DANK brother! 
good job...in the fifth pic,right corner,looks like a male pollen sack..tell me what that is cause u deff. dont want no seeds in ur shit.


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## tmsculli (Dec 21, 2009)

purpdaddy said:


> Lookin DANK brother!
> good job...in the fifth pic,right corner,looks like a male pollen sack..tell me what that is cause u deff. dont want no seeds in ur shit.


Yea I thought the same thing. It's not a pollen sack. That one giant branch did a bunch of weird shit haha. I just harvested and found out that it was actually growing tall skinny buds off the sides instead of growing a big bud up the stem. Either way, it's all good.


Everything is all harvested and manicured guys. I can't believe it's over haha, I fucking did it 

I am going to try and make hash soon, so I'm sure I'll ask about that.

And of course I'll get you guys some harvest shots and a final dry weight


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## purpdaddy (Dec 22, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Yea I thought the same thing. It's not a pollen sack. That one giant branch did a bunch of weird shit haha. I just harvested and found out that it was actually growing tall skinny buds off the sides instead of growing a big bud up the stem. Either way, it's all good.
> 
> 
> Everything is all harvested and manicured guys. I can't believe it's over haha, I fucking did it
> ...


Hell yea bro please cause i put some WORK into u!LOL
U did it well bro im sure


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## tmsculli (Dec 22, 2009)

Haha, I know you did purp and I appreciate it more than you can imagine.


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## purpdaddy (Dec 23, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> Haha, I know you did purp and I appreciate it more than you can imagine.


I know ya do brother thats why i helped ya!


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## tmsculli (Dec 28, 2009)

hey guys, hopefully you all had a great christmas, I know I did. The grow was a complete success and I ended up with 2.8oz from those two bagseed plants. I don't think that I did too badly at all. The weed is great and everything worked out really well. After my trip I'll be setting up another grow, most likely with a nicer fem indica strain, but I'll keep you guys posted!


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## purpdaddy (Dec 29, 2009)

tmsculli said:


> hey guys, hopefully you all had a great christmas, I know I did. The grow was a complete success and I ended up with 2.8oz from those two bagseed plants. I don't think that I did too badly at all. The weed is great and everything worked out really well. After my trip I'll be setting up another grow, most likely with a nicer fem indica strain, but I'll keep you guys posted!


Glad everything went well for ya bro..good work


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## tmsculli (Dec 30, 2009)

Ya man and I just ordered the feminised indoor mix from nirvana. I leave for my trip this weekend, so it will make the three week shipping time feel a little less painful haha.


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## bloatedcraig (Dec 30, 2009)

Good work man, don't lose that enthusasim.


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## Knickers (Jan 13, 2010)

2 weeks has passed... suup?


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