# Water: The Most Essential Compound



## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound". 


*What is "Hard Water"?*

Perhaps you have on occassion noticed mineral deposits on your cooking dishes, or rings of insoluble soap scum in your bathtub. These are not signs of poor housekeeping, but are rather signs of _hard water_ from the municipal water supply. Hard water is water that contains cations with a charge of +2, especially Ca2+ and Mg2+. These ions do not pose any health threat, but they can engage in reactions that leave insoluble mineral deposits. These deposits can make hard water unsuitable for many uses, and so a variety of means have been developed to "soften" hard water; _i.e.,_remove the calcium and magnesium ions.
*Problems with Hard Water*

Mineral deposits are formed by ionic reactions resulting in the formation of an insoluble precipitate. For example, when hard water is heated, Ca2+ ions react with bicarbonate (HCO3-) ions to form insoluble calcium carbonate (CaCO3), as shown in Equation 1.



 
*(1)*


This precipitate, known as _scale,_ coats the vessels in which the water is heated, producing the mineral deposits on your cooking dishes. In small quantities, these deposits are not harmful, but they may be frustrating to try to clean. As these deposits build up, however, they reduce the efficiency of heat transfer, so food may not cook as evenly or quickly in pans with large scale deposits. More serious is the situation in which industrial-sized water boilers become coated with scale: the cost in heat-transfer efficiency can have a dramatic effect on your power bill! Furthermore, scale can accumulate on the inside of appliances, such as dishwashers, and pipes. As scale builds up, water flow is impeded, and hence appliance parts and pipes must be replaced more often than if Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions were not present in the water.
*Some Strategies to "Soften" Hard Water*

For large-scale municipal operations, a process known as the "lime-soda process" is used to remove Ca2+ and Mg2+ from the water supply. Ion-exchange reactions, similar to those you performed in this experiment, which result in the formation of an insoluble precipitate, are the basis of this process. The water is treated with a combination of slaked lime, Ca(OH)2, and soda ash, Na2CO3. Calcium precipitates as CaCO3, and magnesium precipitates as Mg(OH)2. These solids can be collected, thus removing the scale-forming cations from the water supply. 
To see this process in more detail, let us consider the reaction for the precipitation of Mg(OH)2. Consultation of the solubility guidelines in the experiment reveals that the Ca(OH)2 of slaked lime is moderately soluble in water. Hence, it can dissociate in water to give one Ca2+ ion and two OH- ions for each unit of Ca(OH)2 that dissolves. The OH- ions react with Mg2+ ions in the water to form the insoluble precipitate. The Ca2+ ions are unaffected by this reaction, and so we do not include them in the net ionic reaction (Equation 2). They are removed by the separate reaction with CO32- ions from the soda ash.



 
*(2)*


Household water softeners typically use a different process, known as ion exchange. Ion-exchange devices consist of a bed of plastic (polymer) beads covalently bound to anion groups, such as -COO-. The negative charge of these anions is balanced by Na+ cations attached to them. When water containing Ca2+ and Mg2+ is passed through the ion exchanger, the Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions are more attracted to the anion groups than the Na+ ions. Hence, they replace the Na+ ions on the beads, and so the Na+ ions (which do not form scale) go into the water in their place. 



*Figure 1*

When hard tapwater passes through the ion exchanger (left), the calcium ions from the tapwater replace the sodium ions in the ion exchanger. The softened water, containing sodium ions in place of calcium ions, can be collected for household use.

Unfortunately, many people with high blood pressure or other health problems must restrict their intake of sodium. Because water softened by this type of ion exchange contains many sodium ions, people with limited sodium intakes should avoid drinking water that has been softened this way. Several new techniques for softening water without introducing sodium ions are beginning to appear on the market.


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## YungMoolaBaby (Jan 20, 2010)

Nicely done. Bookmarked.


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

*Reverse Osmosis:*​ 

*What is Osmosis?*
Osmosis is based upon the fundamental pursuit for balance. Two fluids containing different concentrations of dissolved solids that come in contact with each other will mix until the concentration is uniform. When these two fluids are separated by a semi permeable membrane (which lets the fluid flow through, while dissolved solids stay behind), the fluid containing the lower concentration will move through the membrane into the fluid containing the higher concentration of dissolved solids (Binnie e.a., 2002).
After a while the water level will be higher on one side of the membrane. The difference in height is called the osmotic pressure.​ 
*What is Reverse Osmosis?*​ 
By applying a pressure that exceeds the osmotic pressure, the reverse effect occurs. Fluids are pressed back through the membrane, while dissolved solids stay behind.​ 
To purify water by Reverse Osmosis membrane, the natural osmosis effect must be reversed. In order to force the water of the brine stream (high salt concentration) to flow towards the fresh stream (low salt concentration), the water must be pressurized at an operating pressure greater than the osmotic pressure. As a result, the brine side will get more concentrated.
The operating pressure of seawater is around 60 bar.​ 





​ 

*1. Water flows from a column with a low dissolved solids content to a column with a high dissolved solids content*​ 

*2. Osmotic pressure is the pressure that is used to stop the water from flowing through the membrane, in order to create balance*​


*3. By pursuing pressure that exceeds the osmotic pressure, the water flow will be reversed; water flows from the column with a high dissolved solids content to the column with a low dissolved solids content*​








​ 






​


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

What is distilled water?
Distilled water is also called steam-distilled water. Distilled water is water which has been heated to the boiling point so that impurities are separated from the water, which becomes vapor or steam at 212 degrees farenheit(100C.). Steam is then cooled and condensed back into pure liquid form. The impurities remain as residue in the steam kettle(to be periodically removed). This distillation system removes waterborne biological contaminants such as bacteria, parasites and viruses, organic and inorganic chemicals, heavy metals, volatile gasses, cysts, and other contaminants. Pure water contains no solids, minerals, or trace elements. It is clean, natural, and healthy. Steam distilled water is the standard by which all other waters are measured.


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

YungMoolaBaby said:


> Nicely done. Bookmarked.


Thank you.


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

Deionization
Deionized water, also known as _demineralized water_[2] (_DI water_, _DIW_ or _de-ionized water_; can also be spelled _deionised water_, see _Spelling differences_), is water that has had its mineral ions removed, such as cations from sodium, calcium, iron, copper and anions such as chloride and bromide. Deionization is a physical process which uses specially-manufactured ion exchange resins which bind to and filter out the mineral salts from water. Because the majority of water impurities are dissolved salts, deionization produces a high purity water that is generally similar to distilled water, and this process is quick and without scale buildup. However, deionization does not significantly remove uncharged organic molecules, viruses or bacteria, except by incidental trapping in the resin. Specially made strong base anion resins can remove Gram-negative bacteria. Deionization can be done continuously and inexpensively using electrodeionization.
Deionization does not remove the hydroxide or hydronium ions from water. These are the products of the self-ionization of water to equilibrium and therefore are impossible to remove.

Source: Wikipedia


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

Now that we've discussed the different types of water purification growers use I want to talk about some of the myths and facts about water. 

A lot of people let their water sit out for a period of time, usually 24 hrs to a few days. Some people run an airstone in their water as they are letting it sit. This does a couple of things. Chlorine evaporates out of water pretty quickly since chlorine is a gas at room temp. An airstone can help this chlorine evaporate a little quicker and oxygenates the water at the same time. Letting water sit out doesn't do much to eliminate Chloramine. Chloramine is a newer chemical used to treat municipal water supplies. It's basically a combination of Chlorine and Ammonia. It doesn't evaporate so filtering with a brita or some other type of carbon filter is necessary to remove it. Reverse osmosis also removes chloramine. 

Hard water is another problem many of us face. As discussed previously, hard water is basically dissolved Calcium and Magnesium ions. But these are elements needed by our plants you say. This is true but the problem is we don't really know how much of these elements are in our water. Too much of either can cause problems as well. You won't see it after one watering but over time these elements can build up in your soil or other medium and cause lockouts and all sorts of problems. You cannot reduce the hardness of water with a brita or similar carbon water filter. You can reduce water hardness by boiling it but how much it reduces the hardness is not clear and without proper laboratory testing equipment it is near impossible to know what and how much gets left behind. Steam distillation and reverse osmosis are the best methods for removing dissolved solids in water. 

Why do I care how hard or pure my water is? Most of us don't give it a second thought, whether we are drinking it ourselves or watering our plants. In simple terms, the more "junk" that's in your water the less useable nutrients the plant will be able to take up through the roots. This is especially of concern to hydroponic growers. 

It's also important to note that the hardness of your water can change dramatically throughout the year. For example, my municipal water supply is drawn from 4 different sources depending on the time of year and amount of rainfall. The sources municpal water companies draw from vary from wells to reservoirs so the water quality may not remain consistent depending on where the water is coming from. If using municipal tapwater it's not a bad idea to request a water analysis from your water company. Most water companies are required to provide this info on request, free of charge. It's also a good idea to check the tds periodically if you use tapwater that is borderline in hardness.


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

What are Toal Dissolved Solids?

"Dissolved solids" refer to any minerals, salts, metals, cations or anions dissolved in water. This includes anything present in water other than the pure water (H20) molecule and suspended solids. (Suspended solids are any particles/substances that are neither dissolved nor settled in the water, such as wood pulp.)
In general, the total dissolved solids concentration is the sum of the cations (positively charged) and anions (negatively charged) ions in the water.
Parts per Million (ppm) is the weight-to-weight ratio of any ion to water.
A TDS meter is based on the electrical conductivity (EC) of water. Pure H20 has virtually zero conductivity. Conductivity is usually about 100 times the total cations or anions expressed as equivalents. TDS is calculated by converting the EC by a factor of 0.5 to 1.0 times the EC, depending upon the levels. Typically, the higher the level of EC, the higher the conversion factor to determine the TDS. NOTE - While a TDS meter is based on conductivity, TDS and conductivity are not the same thing. For more information on this topic, please see our FAQ page.
*Where Do Dissolved Solids Come From?*


Some dissolved solids come from organic sources such as leaves, silt, plankton, and industrial waste and sewage. Other sources come from runoff from urban areas, road salts used on street during the winter, and fertilizers and pesticides used on lawns and farms.
Dissolved solids also come from inorganic materials such as rocks and air that may contain calcium bicarbonate, nitrogen, iron phosphorous, sulfur, and other minerals. Many of these materials form salts, which are compounds that contain both a metal and a nonmetal. Salts usually dissolve in water forming ions. Ions are particles that have a positive or negative charge.
Water may also pick up metals such as lead or copper as they travel through pipes used to distribute water to consumers.
Note that the efficacy of water purifications systems in removing total dissolved solids will be reduced over time, so it is highly recommended to monitor the quality of a filter or membrane and replace them when required.
*Why Should You Measure the TDS Level in Your Water?*

The EPA Secondary Regulations advise a maximum contamination level (MCL) of 500mg/liter (500 parts per million (ppm)) for TDS. Numerous water supplies exceed this level. When TDS levels exceed 1000mg/L it is generally considered unfit for human consumption. A high level of TDS is an indicator of potential concerns, and warrants further investigation. Most often, high levels of TDS are caused by the presence of potassium, chlorides and sodium. These ions have little or no short-term effects, but toxic ions (lead arsenic, cadmium, nitrate and others) may also be dissolved in the water.
Even the best water purification systems on the market require monitoring for TDS to ensure the filters and/or membranes are effectively removing unwanted particles and bacteria from your water.
The following are reasons why it is helpful to constantly test for TDS:
Taste/HealthHigh TDS results in undesirable taste which could be salty, bitter, or metallic. It could also indicate the presence of toxic minerals. The EPA's rescommended maximum level of TDS in water is 500mg/L (500ppm). Filter performanceTest your water to make sure the reverse osmosis or other type of water filter or water purification system has a high rejection rate and know when to change your filter (or membrane) cartridges. HardnessHigh TDS indicates Hard water, which causes scale buildup in pipes and valves, inhibiting performance. Aquariums/AquacultureA constant level of minerals is necessary for aquatic life. The water in an aquarium or tank should have the same levels of TDS and pH as the fish and reef's original habitat. HydroponicsTDS is the best measurement of the nutrient concentration in a hydroponic solution. Pools and spasTDS levels must be monitored to prevent maintenance problems. Commercial/IndustrialHigh TDS levels could impede the functions of certain applications, such as boilers and cooling towers, food and water production and more. Colloidal silver waterTDS levels must be controlled prior to making colloidal silver. Coffee and Food ServiceFor a truly great cup of coffee, proper TDS levels must be maintained. 
Car and window washingHave a washer with a spotless rinse? An inline dual TDS monitor will tell you when to change the filter cartridge or RO membrane. 





_*Chart values represent national U.S. averages. Actual TDS levels for geographic regions within the U.S. and other countries may vary._
_Click here for the U.S. EPA's list of National Secondary Drinking Water Regulations._
Choose a TDS meter based on usage.
View differences between HM Digital handheld TDS/EC meters.
*How Do You Reduce or Remove the TDS in Your Water?*

Common water filter and water purification systems:
Carbon filtrationCharcoal, a form of carbon with a high surface area, adsorbs (or sticks to) many compounds, including some toxic compounds. Water is passed through activated charcoal to remove such contaminants. Reverse osmosis (R.O.)Reverse osmosis works by forcing water under great pressure against a semi-permeable membrane that allows water molecules to pass through while excluding most contaminants. RO is the most thorough method of large-scale water purification available. DistillationDistillation involves boiling the water to produce water vapor. The water vapor then rises to a cooled surface where it can condense back into a liquid and be collected. Because the dissolved solids are not normally vaporized, they remain in the boiling solution. Deionization (DI)Water is passed between a positive electrode and a negative electrode. Ion selective membranes allow the positive ions to separate from the water toward the negative electrode and the negative ions toward the positive electrode. High purity de-ionized water results. The water is usually passed through a reverse osmosis unit first to remove nonionic organic contaminants. 

Source: HM Digital


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## gogrow (Jan 20, 2010)

i have never seen this comprehensively covered..... sticky-ed


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

gogrow said:


> i have never seen this comprehensively covered..... sticky-ed


Thank you very much. I am humbled and honored to have a thread stickied. I hope people enjoy it and learn a little something in the process.


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## sagensour (Jan 20, 2010)

if u get the water to pure like DI water or 2ppm water. Will that leach out ur nutes more than 150ppm tap water if I watered with 10% run off in soil.


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## gogrow (Jan 20, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Thank you very much. I am humbled and honored to have a thread stickied. I hope people enjoy it and learn a little something in the process.


I've wondered about my water lately... we buy distilled water for our baby's bottle, but we use well water straight out the ground.... its not hardwater, but its that stinky eggwater, so i'm lead to believe that its high in sulfur.... been wanting to do a comparison and start using distilled water on one plant.... i might now



sagensour said:


> if u get the water to pure like DI water or 2ppm water. Will that leach out ur nutes more than 150ppm tap water if I watered with 10% run off in soil.


now you're the "water guru", and will get loads of questions like this.... have fun


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

sagensour said:


> if u get the water to pure like DI water or 2ppm water. Will that leach out ur nutes more than 150ppm tap water if I watered with 10% run off in soil.


I'm not aware of any studies on this so to give you a definitive answer would be irresponsible of me. I think the benefit comes from the fact that you aren't putting "unknown quantities" of "unknown" mineral salts and compounds into your growing medium. I doubt that the purer water is going to actually leach nutes out noticeably quicker though. This is an interesting read:

http://gardenline.usask.ca/plants/ppwater.html



gogrow said:


> I've wondered about my water lately... we buy distilled water for our baby's bottle, but we use well water straight out the ground.... its not hardwater, but its that stinky eggwater, so i'm lead to believe that its high in sulfur.... been wanting to do a comparison and start using distilled water on one plant.... i might now
> 
> 
> 
> now you're the "water guru", and will get loads of questions like this.... have fun


Give it a try. Your plants may like distilled or r/o better. I get my water from the grocery store machine. It's about $.25 per gallon if you bring your own jug and it comes out about 10-15 ppm. My plants like it much better than my tapwater (which is extremely hard) but I have to add cal-mag back in and depending on what kind of fertilizer you are using you may need to add something like it as well. 

I'm hardly a guru but I am honored and happy to help out where I can.


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## FoolBloom (Jan 20, 2010)

This is a really awsome thread, I've been wondering lately as well about my water. I live in the boonies and have nice tasting clean water so assumed it was good for my girls. I just had flashbacks of college bio classes lol. 

Good job doc


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

FoolBloom said:


> This is a really awsome thread, I've been wondering lately as well about my water. I live in the boonies and have nice tasting clean water so assumed it was good for my girls. I just had flashbacks of college bio classes lol.
> 
> Good job doc


Thank you.


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## Straight up G (Jan 20, 2010)

Doc I am using bottled water with a starting PPM of 100 or so, do you think there are vital elaments missing or in short supply with the use of this water*?*


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## Straight up G (Jan 20, 2010)

hey at least I'm on cue, right gogrow? lol


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

Straight up G said:


> Doc I am using bottled water with a starting PPM of 100 or so, do you think there are vital elaments missing or in short supply with the use of this water*?*


I think most bottled water is o.k. for growing. Does it have a breakdown of what's in it?


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## doc111 (Jan 20, 2010)

Physical Properties of Water
​
We live on a planet that is dominated by water. More than 70% of the Earth's surface is covered with this simple molecule. Scientists estimate that the *hydrosphere* contains about 1.36 billion cubic kilometers of this substance mostly in the form of a liquid (water) that occupies topographic depressions on the Earth. The second most common form of the water molecule on our planet is ice. If all our planet's ice melted, sea-level would rise by about 70 meters.​







Water is also essential for life. Water is the major constituent of almost all life forms. Most animals and plants contain more than 60% water by volume. Without water life would probably never have developed on our planet.​











Water has a very simple atomic structure. This structure consists of two hydrogen atoms bonded to one oxygen atom (*Figure 8a-1*). The nature of the atomic structure of water causes its molecules to have unique electrochemical properties. The hydrogen side of the water molecule has a slight positive charge (see *Figure 8a-1*). On the other side of the molecule a negative charge exists. This molecular polarity causes water to be a powerful solvent and is responsible for its strong *surface tension* (for more information on these two properties see the discussion below).​
























*Figure 8a-1*: The atomic structure of a water (or dihydrogen monoxide) molecule consists of two hydrogen (*H*) atoms joined to one oxygen (*O*) atom. The unique way in which the hydrogen atoms are attached to the oxygen atom causes one side of the molecule to have a negative charge and the area in the opposite direction to have a positive charge. The resulting polarity of charge causes molecules of water to be attracted to each other forming strong molecular bonds.​






When the water molecule makes a physical *phase change* its molecules arrange themselves in distinctly different patterns (*Figure 8a-2*). The molecular arrangement taken by ice (the solid form of the water molecule) leads to an increase in volume and a decrease in density. Expansion of the water molecule at freezing allows ice to float on top of liquid water.​

















































*Figure 8a-2*: The three diagrams above illustrate the distinct arrangement patterns of water molecules as they change their physical state from ice to water to gas. Frozen water molecules arrange themselves in a particular highly organized rigid geometric pattern that causes the mass of water to expand and to decrease in density. The diagram above shows a slice through a mass of ice that is one molecule wide. In the liquid phase, water molecules arrange themselves into small groups of joined particles. The fact that these arrangements are small allows liquid water to move and flow. Water molecules in the form of a gas are highly charged with energy. This high energy state causes the molecules to be always moving reducing the likelihood of bonds between individual molecules from forming.​





Water has several other unique physical properties. These properties are:​






Water has a high *specific heat*. Specific heat is the amount of energy required to change the temperature of a substance. Because water has a high specific heat, it can absorb large amounts of heat energy before it begins to get hot. It also means that water releases heat energy slowly when situations cause it to cool. Water's high specific heat allows for the moderation of the Earth's climate and helps organisms regulate their body temperature more effectively.
Water in a pure state has a neutral *pH*. As a result, pure water is neither *acidic* nor *basic*. Water changes its pH when substances are dissolved in it. Rain has a naturally acidic pH of about 5.6 because it contains natural derived carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide.
Water *conducts* heat more easily than any liquid except mercury. This fact causes large bodies of liquid water like lakes and oceans to have essentially a uniform vertical temperature profile.
Water molecules exist in liquid form over an important range of temperature from 0 - 100° Celsius. This range allows water molecules to exist as a liquid in most places on our planet.
Water is a universal *solvent*. It is able to dissolve a large number of different chemical compounds. This feature also enables water to carry solvent nutrients in *runoff*, *infiltration*, *groundwater flow*, and living organisms.
Water has a high *surface tension* (*Figures 8a-3 *and* 8a-4*). In other words, water is adhesive and elastic, and tends to aggregate in drops rather than spread out over a surface as a thin film. This phenomenon also causes water to stick to the sides of vertical structures despite gravity's downward pull. Water's high surface tension allows for the formation of water droplets and waves, allows plants to move water (and dissolved nutrients) from their roots to their leaves, and the movement of blood through tiny vessels in the bodies of some animals.





















*Figure 8a-3*: The following illustration shows how water molecules are attracted to each other to create high surface tension. This property can cause water to exist as an extensive thin film over solid surfaces. In the example above, the film is two layers of water molecules thick.​











​














*Figure 8a-4*: The adhesive bonding property of water molecules allows for the formation of water droplets (Photo © 2004 Edward Tsang).​
​








Water molecules are the only substance on Earth that exist in all three *physical states of matter*: *solid*, *liquid*, and *gas*. Incorporated in the changes of state are massive amounts of heat exchange. This feature plays an important role in the redistribution of heat energy in the Earth's atmosphere. In terms of heat being transferred into the atmosphere, approximately 3/4's of this process is accomplished by the evaporation and condensation of water.
The freezing of water molecules causes their mass to occupy a larger volume. When water freezes it expands rapidly adding about 9% by volume. Fresh water has a maximum density at around 4° Celsius (see *Table 8a-1*). Water is the only substance on this planet where the maximum density of its mass does not occur when it becomes solidified.






Source: Physical geography.net​ 

​


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## blaze another1 (Jan 21, 2010)

got a ? on blue stone quarry water i live in a big blue stone area with pools of water you think thats good for watering.Having tryed it yet alway carried water long way thanx


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## Straight up G (Jan 21, 2010)

really pleased you got this thread stickied doc, you are one of my favourite RIU members


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## doc111 (Jan 21, 2010)

blaze another1 said:


> got a ? on blue stone quarry water i live in a big blue stone area with pools of water you think thats good for watering.Having tryed it yet alway carried water long way thanx


There's only one way to find out. Give it a try on a plant or 2 keep track of your results somewhat and you should be good. If this water is standing in pools it may have stuff you don't want in your garden though. I personally would stay away from using water from outdoors unless you are doing an outdoor grow. Bringing things from the outside into your growroon is not usually a good idea IMO.


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## doc111 (Jan 21, 2010)

Straight up G said:


> really pleased you got this thread stickied doc, you are one of my favourite RIU members


 Thank you. I've been wanting to do a decent "Water" thread for a while. I just finally got off my ass and did it.


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## blaze another1 (Jan 21, 2010)

thats what i thought thanx everything i do in out


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## edwardtheclean (Jan 21, 2010)

yea this is alot of info, good work bro


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## doc111 (Jan 21, 2010)

edwardtheclean said:


> yea this is alot of info, good work bro


Thank you. Most people don't give their water a second thought yet plants are made up of mostly water as are we. I know that my horrible tapwater gave me fits until I figured out that it was around 600ppm! I see a lot of people that focus so much on their nutes, pH, soil,lights, etc. and they don't even think that their water could be the problem. Fortunately most people's tapwater will work just fine for growing. Some less fortunate ones, like myself, have to seek out other sources of water for our plants. I can't even give my tapwater to my dog!


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## cantoke (Jan 22, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Thank you. Most people don't give their water a second thought yet plants are made up of mostly water as are we. I know that my horrible tapwater gave me fits until I figured out that it was around 600ppm! I see a lot of people that focus so much on their nutes, pH, soil,lights, etc. and they don't even think that their water could be the problem. Fortunately most people's tapwater will work just fine for growing. Some less fortunate ones, like myself, have to seek out other sources of water for our plants. I can't even give my tapwater to my dog!


Thanks for the info thats what ive thought all along alot of people say tap water is good enough but most is crap. i use an RO system with a carbon pre-filter its for aquariums and produces water at about 14 to 20 PPM and the girls love it i grow hydro DWC and it makes all the difference in the world solves a lot of problems i was having in the old day with tap water. It is nice to see someone put it out there with the science to back it up you number one doc.


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## doc111 (Jan 22, 2010)

cantoke said:


> Thanks for the info thats what ive thought all along alot of people say tap water is good enough but most is crap. i use an RO system with a carbon pre-filter its for aquariums and produces water at about 14 to 20 PPM and the girls love it i grow hydro DWC and it makes all the difference in the world solves a lot of problems i was having in the old day with tap water. It is nice to see someone put it out there with the science to back it up you number one doc.


Thanks. I seldom saw any threads about water on here and figured since I had firsthand experience with crappy tapwater that I would do a thread to help answer peoples questions about water and the different purification methods commonly used by growers. It always surprises me to see how many people have no idea what hard water is.


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## Jay_normous (Jan 23, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Thanks. I seldom saw any threads about water on here and figured since I had firsthand experience with crappy tapwater that I would do a thread to help answer peoples questions about water and the different purification methods commonly used by growers. It always surprises me to see how many people have no idea what hard water is.


What about rain water..? also if you rain a air pump in the container.. would this be better..?


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## doc111 (Jan 23, 2010)

Jay_normous said:


> What about rain water..? also if you rain a air pump in the container.. would this be better..?


Rain water is usually ok to use but it depends on where you live. In some areas with a lot of industry and factories you can have acid rain which has dissolved sulfates, heavy metals and other junk. Normally though, the pH of rainwater is ideal and it has a bit of dissolved Nitrogen in it. That being said, I don't bring anything from outside into the growroon. Rainwater or anything brought in from the outside can have bugs, spores and many other things you may not want in your growroom. I would personally stick with something that I know is clean but if you are short on money or whatever then just be careful. You can boil your rainwater which would kill anything that might be in it. Also, make sure you check your pH and watch out for problems. Best of luck to you my friend. 

Edit: An airstone is a good idea but it only helps chlorine dissipate a little quicker and oxygenates your water. It won't change your water quality though.


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## Jay_normous (Jan 23, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Rain water is usually ok to use but it depends on where you live. In some areas with a lot of industry and factories you can have acid rain which has dissolved sulfates, heavy metals and other junk. Normally though, the pH of rainwater is ideal and it has a bit of dissolved Nitrogen in it. That being said, I don't bring anything from outside into the growroon. Rainwater or anything brought in from the outside can have bugs, spores and many other things you may not want in your growroom. I would personally stick with something that I know is clean but if you are short on money or whatever then just be careful. You can boil your rainwater which would kill anything that might be in it. Also, make sure you check your pH and watch out for problems. Best of luck to you my friend.
> 
> Edit: An airstone is a good idea but it only helps chlorine dissipate a little quicker and oxygenates your water. It won't change your water quality though.


Thanks for clearing that up for me.. 
I've been using it for the last 2 years with no problems yet, although i do boil the kettle and add the contains to it during the winter..


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## connorbrown (Jan 23, 2010)

Should I use rainwater? I mean, it has natural nitrogen and stuff. I thought that was good for the plant. But maybe not?


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## tusseltussel (Jan 23, 2010)

hello i use tap water my water comes out with a ppm of 25...... i never have trouble its good stuff. but maybe you could clear this up for me . i was told to never use distilled or r\o water because it is lacking in buffers and other vital minerals that promote healthy growth... do you know if this is true. ive heard a lot of ppl talkin bout it. than there is all the addatives ppl use makes me wonder if they just used good ol tap water, would they need all those addatives??? i dnt use any and havnt for a long long time with no ill effects, i think its kinda like a placebo, you think its better because it tells you that on the bottle


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## doc111 (Jan 23, 2010)

connorbrown said:


> Should I use rainwater? I mean, it has natural nitrogen and stuff. I thought that was good for the plant. But maybe not?


It's not that simple. Rainwater does contain a little bit of Nitrogen which you are already giving to your plants I'm sure. Some rainwater can be full of pollutants and other garbage. It may be fine for use indoors where you live but just be careful......anytime you bring in anything from the outdoors you risk bringing in bugs and other nasty sfuff that you may not want in your garden. Give it a try but maybe boil it before you use it. In a lot of places rainwater Is good for your plants but not if you live down wind from a lot of factories.


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## connorbrown (Jan 23, 2010)

I live out in the middle of the woods, so I'm not worried about acid rain. But yeah, I run the water through a screen and then boil it just to make sure there are no bugs or anything.


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## doc111 (Jan 23, 2010)

tusseltussel said:


> hello i use tap water my water comes out with a ppm of 25...... i never have trouble its good stuff. but maybe you could clear this up for me . i was told to never use distilled or r\o water because it is lacking in buffers and other vital minerals that promote healthy growth... do you know if this is true. ive heard a lot of ppl talkin bout it. than there is all the addatives ppl use makes me wonder if they just used good ol tap water, would they need all those addatives??? i dnt use any and havnt for a long long time with no ill effects, i think its kinda like a placebo, you think its better because it tells you that on the bottle


25 ppm is very low and only a little higher than most r/o water. There is a myth that distilled water leaches nutrients out of the soil and even out of the body if you drink it. This is a myth and is absolutely not true. If you have good tapwater I would use it. If your tapwater is good it will have a little bit of Calcium and Magnesium which your plants need. If it's too hard what can happen is over time these minerals can build up in your soil and cause lockout. 25 ppm is very good tapwater and I wouldn't even consider distilled or r/o if mine were that good. As for natural buffers I have been using r/o for a few grows now and I have been having very good results. I have to add cal-mag but other than a little bit of magnesium deficiency in the beginning I have had no problems with it. It works way better than my crappy tapwater which is around 600ppm!

Are you growing in soil? Do you have to add cal-mag or anything?


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## tusseltussel (Jan 23, 2010)

doc111 said:


> 25 ppm is very low and only a little higher than most r/o water. There is a myth that distilled water leaches nutrients out of the soil and even out of the body if you drink it. This is a myth and is absolutely not true. If you have good tapwater I would use it. If your tapwater is good it will have a little bit of Calcium and Magnesium which your plants need. If it's too hard what can happen is over time these minerals can build up in your soil and cause lockout. 25 ppm is very good tapwater and I wouldn't even consider distilled or r/o if mine were that good. As for natural buffers I have been using r/o for a few grows now and I have been having very good results. I have to add cal-mag but other than a little bit of magnesium deficiency in the beginning I have had no problems with it. It works way better than my crappy tapwater which is around 600ppm!
> 
> Are you growing in soil? Do you have to add cal-mag or anything?


 never add anything and yes in soil but ive used the same tap water in hydro too. thanks for clearing up the myth. 

have you seen the charts.... someone posted a link maybe a year ago where you could look up your water specs, each town has to monitor ther water and that info can be found online and is public information if you wanna know how much arsnic is in yer water..... dnt remember the link but google is good at finding things like that.


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## doc111 (Jan 23, 2010)

tusseltussel said:


> never add anything and yes in soil but ive used the same tap water in hydro too. thanks for clearing up the myth.
> 
> have you seen the charts.... someone posted a link maybe a year ago where you could look up your water specs, each town has to monitor ther water and that info can be found online and is public information if you wanna know how much arsnic is in yer water..... dnt remember the link but google is good at finding things like that.


I seem to recall seeing that link. I've looked mine up and it's not listed. Probably because it's so crappy! Our water company draws from 4 different wells at different times of the year so the quality fluctuates a bit. The lowest I've tested it was around 300ppm which is still awful. I wouldn't mind finding that website though and posting the link in this thread. Thanks for the idea.


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## FootClan (Jan 23, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I seem to recall seeing that link. I've looked mine up and it's not listed. Probably because it's so crappy! Our water company draws from 4 different wells at different times of the year so the quality fluctuates a bit. The lowest I've tested it was around 300ppm which is still awful. I wouldn't mind finding that website though and posting the link in this thread. Thanks for the idea.


Hey all......How does one test the hardness of there tap water? is there a cheap way to test it at home? and whats the highest your ca & mg ppm can be? whats the lowest? 

Also i accidently watered a batch of clones with water that was treated first by a water softner. Does this mean that the water contained too much soidum? isnt that really bad for plants and meduim? also was that water within proper ca mg levels for growing even though is may of had too much sodium? Or was is just bad on all accounts a loose loose? the plants seem fine and only 1 didnt make it im not sure if that had anything to do with it......the rest are now 2 days into 12/12


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## doc111 (Jan 23, 2010)

FootClan said:


> Hey all......How does one test the hardness of there tap water? is there a cheap way to test it at home? and whats the highest your ca & mg ppm can be? whats the lowest?
> 
> Also i accidently watered a batch of clones with water that was treated first by a water softner. Does this mean that the water contained too much soidum? isnt that really bad for plants and meduim? also was that water within proper ca mg levels for growing even though is may of had too much sodium? Or was is just bad on all accounts a loose loose? the plants seem fine and only 1 didnt make it im not sure if that had anything to do with it......the rest are now 2 days into 12/12


A TDS meter is one way to test for hardness. These meters can be bought relatively inexpensively. They give the ppm (parts per million) which will tell you the relative hardness of the water. Unfortunately they don't tell you exactly what or how much of each dissolved solid that's in your water. You can request a report from your water company. Most are obligated to do this free of charge. As for sodium softened water.  You should not use this for growing! Plants need some sodium (very minscule amounts) for growth but the sodium in softened water is too much. It may not hurt your plants outright but you will have problems down the road. You would probably be better off just using hard water (depending on how hard it is). I don't know what the cutoff levels for Ca and Mg in water are. If I come across this info I will post it in this thread.


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## idlehands80 (Jan 23, 2010)

great post! my tap water has a ph ranging from 7-7.5 and the hardness avg for my area is 61ppm. I cant afford any special filtration systems or anything so what is the best way to prepare my water. What should I add to lower the ph until I get some ph+/- and the hardness is slightly high, so what can I do to help with that or is it not that bad?


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## FootClan (Jan 24, 2010)

doc111 said:


> A TDS meter is one way to test for hardness. These meters can be bought relatively inexpensively. They give the ppm (parts per million) which will tell you the relative hardness of the water. Unfortunately they don't tell you exactly what or how much of each dissolved solid that's in your water. You can request a report from your water company. Most are obligated to do this free of charge. As for sodium softened water. You should not use this for growing! Plants need some sodium (very minscule amounts) for growth but the sodium in softened water is too much. It may not hurt your plants outright but you will have problems down the road. You would probably be better off just using hard water (depending on how hard it is). I don't know what the cutoff levels for Ca and Mg in water are. If I come across this info I will post it in this thread.


I think im going to do the water machine out front of the groccry store that sounds like a good idea.


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## doc111 (Jan 24, 2010)

idlehands80 said:


> great post! my tap water has a ph ranging from 7-7.5 and the hardness avg for my area is 61ppm. I cant afford any special filtration systems or anything so what is the best way to prepare my water. What should I add to lower the ph until I get some ph+/- and the hardness is slightly high, so what can I do to help with that or is it not that bad?


That is a pretty low ppm. If you are growing in soil you don't need to adjust your pH if it's close to neutral pH (7.0). If you are concerned about it though, you can use lemon juice or vinegar to lower your pH. Water that has a neutral pH won't alter the pH of the growing medium. If it were me I wouldn't mess with your water at all. Sounds like it's about perfect for growing. 



FootClan said:


> I think im going to do the water machine out front of the groccry store that sounds like a good idea.


That's what I use. It's around $.25 per gallon if you bring your own jugs and it comes out around 10-15 ppm. If you have a lot of plants you can try a mix of 50% tapwater and 50% r/o water.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 24, 2010)

i use rain water and it has a ppm of around 3 with a ph of 5.8. i use a 65 gallon tank and a 55 gallon sitting under the eave of the house. i basically just collect the drips from the edge of the house. i realize the risk of bringing outdoors indoors but i think the benefits outweigh the risk. my only concern is what chemicals are being leeched out of the roofing. im sure something from the roof is being added being that i am collecting solely from the roof. i have been using rainwater for 3 weeks now and havent seen any ill side effects. i would like to start thinking about how i can make it a little safer any ideas? my babies drink 15 gallons a week and boiling is not practical. what are cheap RO systems running for? yearly costs?

thanks doc111 for this great thread. remember food *water* and shelter.


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## doc111 (Jan 24, 2010)

aeviaanah said:


> i use rain water and it has a ppm of around 3 with a ph of 5.8. i use a 65 gallon tank and a 55 gallon sitting under the eave of the house. i basically just collect the drips from the edge of the house. i realize the risk of bringing outdoors indoors but i think the benefits outweigh the risk. my only concern is what chemicals are being leeched out of the roofing. im sure something from the roof is being added being that i am collecting solely from the roof. i have been using rainwater for 3 weeks now and havent seen any ill side effects. i would like to start thinking about how i can make it a little safer any ideas? my babies drink 15 gallons a week and boiling is not practical. what are cheap RO systems running for? yearly costs?
> 
> thanks doc111 for this great thread. remember food *water* and shelter.


r/o filters go for under $100 dollars on e-bay. I am not sure how much they cost to operate. I understand that they waste a lot of water so it may not be practical to run rainwater through one. Plus you need water pressure so you'd have to get a pump that is powerful enough to force your rainwater through the membrane. I doubt you are getting much leaching going on since the rainwater doesn't sit on the roof. It has a very brief contact time and probably doesn't pick up too much junk. Look into some sort of UV-C light to disinfect your water. I will do a search and see if I can't find something that might work. Make sure you are disinfecting your rain drum regularly and you should be ok.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 24, 2010)

thanks man. other than a uv light what would u recommend to disinfect water? i have seen uv filters at pet stores.


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## doc111 (Jan 24, 2010)

aeviaanah said:


> thanks man. other than a uv light what would u recommend to disinfect water? i have seen uv filters at pet stores.


The methods to disinfect things are:

1. Heat  (Boiling, Cooking, Autoclave)
2. Chemical (Chlorine, Chloramine, Ethylene gas, Iodine, etc.)
3. Microfiltration 
4. Radiation (UV, Gamma, etc.)

Find what's most practical for your application, budget and size of garden .


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## Kriegs (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks, Doc for this thread. As a carbonate chemist in my own right, it makes me insane when people try to argue water, pH and equilibrium chemistry with a mix of zero knowledge and internet bromides, often vociferously with a little ad hominem throw in. You, on the other hand, obviously know your stuff.

Here's a discussion on chloramine in the garden that raises some good points:

http://blog.pennlive.com/gardening/2007/12/chloraminetreated_water_in_the.html 

A number of regular gardening sites suggest adding a few drops per gallon of humic acid supplement to neutralize chloramine. It's also worth knowing that commercial potting soils are predominantly composted wood and sphagnum, and are just loaded with humic acids already. There's always the "aquarium drops" to knock this stuff out, too.

The vast majority of public water systems no longer use straight chlorine, so the old "degassing" thing is mostly dead. Some small town systems might still do this. Most water system web sites will tell you what they do for treatment and raw sources. 


Just FYI, all -- if you're getting bottled water with some PPM in it and the source is from Florida, as many are.. That PPM is primarily calcium carbonate. Same thing if you're harvesting "blue pool" water from nature, as one poster suggested. Probably not a problem..


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## doc111 (Jan 24, 2010)

ganjahype84 said:


> thank now i know more!
> 
> 
> *dutch seeds*
> *dutch cannabis*


You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it. 



Kriegs said:


> Thanks, Doc for this thread. As a carbonate chemist in my own right, it makes me insane when people try to argue water, pH and equilibrium chemistry with a mix of zero knowledge and internet bromides, often vociferously with a little ad hominem throw in. You, on the other hand, obviously know your stuff.
> 
> Here's a discussion on chloramine in the garden that raises some good points:
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link and the compliment. I plan on doing a more in depth look at chloramine in a future post. My town still uses chlorine instead of chloramine so I won't be able to do any of my own tests. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of well documented scientific data to guide us. And I read a lot of hype about chloramine and the potential problems it can cause so I've wondered if it has any ill effects on cannabis.


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## Kriegs (Jan 24, 2010)

doc111 said:


> You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
> 
> Thank you for the link and the compliment. I plan on doing a more in depth look at chloramine in a future post. My town still uses chlorine instead of chloramine so I won't be able to do any of my own tests. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of well documented scientific data to guide us. And I read a lot of hype about chloramine and the potential problems it can cause so I've wondered if it has any ill effects on cannabis.


You're welcome - I look forward to your follow-up.


For my part, my tap water comes out at pH 8.0 that I'm quite sure is due to the lime fraction they use. I do let my water sit for at least a day nonetheless out of habit. I don't worry about it otherwise, don't "ph down", and have never noticed anything but very happy plants after a solid watering. I get excoriated on this site regularly for it, too.

I've also germed about 30 seeds in this toxic soup lol, and have never had one fail yet. Seems if it was that toxic, it would zap that little endosperm to death. Virtually every creature in nature gets more chemical-resilient with age so, if the little endo can handle it...


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## doc111 (Jan 24, 2010)

Kriegs said:


> You're welcome - I look forward to your follow-up.
> 
> 
> For my part, my tap water comes out at pH 8.0 that I'm quite sure is due to the lime fraction they use. I do let my water sit for at least a day nonetheless out of habit. I don't worry about it otherwise, don't "ph down", and have never noticed anything but very happy plants after a solid watering. I get excoriated on this site regularly for it, too.
> ...


Check back periodically. I plan on doing a few different articles and perhaps some experiments.


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## majikmerlin (Jan 24, 2010)

Great thread! lots of info


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## AquafinaOrbit (Jan 24, 2010)

Well if you by chance see this could you explain to me the differences between Spring, Well, and Distilled Water in terms of which would be best for a plant?


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## doc111 (Jan 25, 2010)

AquafinaOrbit said:


> Well if you by chance see this could you explain to me the differences between Spring, Well, and Distilled Water in terms of which would be best for a plant?


Any water that doesn't have too much in the way of dissolved solids is good for growing. It depends on the quality of the well water. Some well water is very good and some can be downright nasty. Bottled water is almost always good for growing but isn't practical to use for most people because of cost. Distilled is good but you may need to add cal-mag or another similar calcium/magnesium supplement.


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## sickman (Jan 25, 2010)

Great thread! 

I have a scenario that hasn't been cover yet: The tap water in my area is pretty hard so I installed a water softener as soon as I moved in. Aware of the sodium issues, I use potassium instead of salt for ion exchange. Also this unit has a charcoal filter. 

Will the potassium have ill affects on a grow show?

1st post! No more lurking!


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## doc111 (Jan 26, 2010)

sickman said:


> Great thread!
> 
> I have a scenario that hasn't been cover yet: The tap water in my area is pretty hard so I installed a water softener as soon as I moved in. Aware of the sodium issues, I use potassium instead of salt for ion exchange. Also this unit has a charcoal filter.
> 
> ...


Potassium won't. Too much potassium will. Look out for magnesium, manganese, zinc, or iron deficiencies.


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## tehnick (Jan 27, 2010)

I think I have a fairly simple question. My tap water is well water and has a ppm between 64-66, and a PH of 7.9 out of the faucet. Is it possible that I could have some deficiencies in the water on some minerals? Should I treat the water with Cal-Mag?


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## doc111 (Jan 27, 2010)

tehnick said:


> I think I have a fairly simple question. My tap water is well water and has a ppm between 64-66, and a PH of 7.9 out of the faucet. Is it possible that I could have some deficiencies in the water on some minerals? Should I treat the water with Cal-Mag?


It is possible. Are you experiencing signs of a deficiency? If so then It could be Calcium/magnesium. It also depends on your growing medium and your nutes. Check your nutes to see if they have any Cal/Mag. If not then I'd say you will probably have to add some cal-mag.


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## XxTwoJointsxX (Jan 27, 2010)

Really interesting thread brother...

But what i have in my area is Ca mg/l of 90... is that good enough for my plants or should i be doing something about it?

easy brother


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## doc111 (Jan 27, 2010)

XxTwoJointsxX said:


> Really interesting thread brother...
> 
> But what i have in my area is Ca mg/l of 90... is that good enough for my plants or should i be doing something about it?
> 
> easy brother


I'm not sure about that unit of measure. I will look it up and see what I can find.


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## doc111 (Jan 27, 2010)

XxTwoJointsxX said:


> Really interesting thread brother...
> 
> But what i have in my area is Ca mg/l of 90... is that good enough for my plants or should i be doing something about it?
> 
> easy brother


Double check your measurement. Hardness of water is generally expressed in ppm. If you have a Calcium level of 90 mg/l that would probably be some very hard water and I would recommend you use something with less Ca in it. At least cut it with some distilled or r/o.


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## XxTwoJointsxX (Jan 27, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Double check your measurement. Hardness of water is generally expressed in ppm. If you have a Calcium level of 90 mg/l that would probably be some very hard water and I would recommend you use something with less Ca in it. At least cut it with some distilled or r/o.


Our local water board expresses it in CaCO3, Ca mg/l,  &#730;clarke,  &#730;german,  &#730;french, bit strange but thats what it gives, i think I will need to cut it with bottled wated as i dont really know where to get distilled water from, unless you have any suggestions, im only growing two plants, what do you reckon???

peace

ps my fonts are going crazy


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## doc111 (Jan 27, 2010)

XxTwoJointsxX said:


> Our local water board expresses it in CaCO3, Ca mg/l, &#730;clarke, &#730;german, &#730;french, bit strange but thats what it gives, i think I will need to cut it with bottled wated as i dont really know where to get distilled water from, unless you have any suggestions, im only growing two plants, what do you reckon???
> 
> peace
> 
> ps my fonts are going crazy


Check your local supermarket. Most of them have those water machines where you can bring your own jugs and get them filled. Those are reverse osmosis (r/o) filters. The water is very cheap and perfect for growing. Although you may need cal-mag or a similar supplement depending on your soil and nutes. Do you notice a lot of limescale buildup on your faucets and around sinks and tubs?


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## Jay_normous (Jan 27, 2010)

What is the best water for our great plants.

Rain water from countryside away from cities, filtered and boiled and then loaded up with a load of air..with an air atone before serving.. NO?
All i know planet earth wouldn't survive without it..


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## doc111 (Jan 27, 2010)

Jay_normous said:


> What is the best water for our great plants.
> 
> Rain water from countryside away from cities, filtered and boiled and then loaded up with a load of air..with an air atone before serving.. NO?
> All i know planet earth wouldn't survive without it..


Yes rainwater is usually good for growing. If it's filtered and boiled why not just use r/o water though? Cheaper you say? Perhaps but it seems like a lot of trouble to go through to water your plants (unless you only have 1 or 2). Fact is most water is fine for growing. Even most tapwater is fine. There are a relative few who have really hard water or nasty well water or use a water softener. If you are in any of these categories, I would say that rainwater, r/o, or distilled is probably your best bet. I feel obligated to caution anybody who uses rainwater for indoor growing.  Beware of creepy crawlies and other nasty things that may hitch a ride in your water. If you are boiling it then you probably won't have to worry about it but make sure the pH of your rainwater isn't out of wack. Happy growing.


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## doc111 (Jan 31, 2010)

Here is an interesting article I found:



*Water and Plant Growth* 
By Mark Longstroth 
Southwest Michigan District Horticultural & Marketing Agent​




I want to explain the importance of water in plants and how they grow. First, I need to review some basic plant physiology so that we are all on the same page and you can understand how I look at plants. My basic model of a plant is a leaf stuck in a straw, at the opposite end of the straw is a cotton wick, the root. That is your basic plant: leaves, stems, roots. All plant tissues consist of cells, which can be imagined as a wet cardboard box (the cell wall) with a water balloon (the plant cell) inside. The balloon itself (the cell membrane) is leaky. Water and other small molecules can move through it. This explains why the box is wet! In addition, there are proteins in the membrane that can quickly move salt ions, usually potassium, into the cell. Other proteins move sugars in and out of the cell. This allows the cell to be saltier and sweeter that the water around it. Water moves from a solution of low concentration into a higher concentration solution to dilute it. Since the cell can actively move salts into the cell, water moves into the cell as some water leaks out, and a balance between inflow and outflow occurs.
Plants can make virtually everything they need from water and air with a few nutrients that the roots absorb from the soil. The plant uses sunlight to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. It discards the oxygen as a waste product. The plant uses the hydrogen to make sugar from carbon dioxide in the air. Both plants and people use oxygen in the air to burn sugar and make energy to live. The sole purpose of the leaves is to harvest light and make sugar. Take a moment to consider the structure of a leaf. It is wide and flat, which it can catch a lot of light but the large surface area means water loss is a problem. It has a waxy cuticle to reduce water loss. The leaves get water from the roots. Air enters the leaves through small holes in the leaves called stomates. When the stomates are open they let air in but they also lose water through evaporation. This is an important point to remember because if those stomates close to conserve water, photosynthesis and sugar production stops. It does not matter how much sunlight you have, if the plants are drought stressed growth stops! That's why they irrigate in a desert. Water is the single most limiting factor in plant growth. 
Water is truly vital for growth. Plants grow in two ways, cell division and cell expansion. Cell division creates more cells and cell expansion is the increase in cell size. Cells grow by taking up water. Imagining plant cells as a wet cardboard box with a water balloon (the plant cell) inside makes a lot of sense. The cell takes up water and swells, pushing against the inside of the box causing it to swell. Young cells expand and produce new cell wall at the same time. Eventually, the cell wall becomes so thick that the cell can no longer expand and growth stops. If water is reduced during growth, final cell size is reduced. This means fewer, smaller leaves, smaller fruit, shorter, thinner stems and fewer roots. Drought stress results in a smaller, weaker plants. 
Just as we can look at leaves as organs, which harvest light, roots are organs, which absorb water. This is their primary function. Most of the water is taken up at the root tips. There is a zone of active cell division at the root tip where new cells are formed. Directly behind the tip is a region known as the zone of elongation where the new cells grow by increasing in length. This elongation pushes the root into the soil. There are no barriers to water movement in these young tissues and water can move freely into and out of the root. Behind the zone of elongation is the zone of differentiation, where the cells develop into different cell types. In the center of the root is woody xylem tissue, which carries water from the roots to the stems. Around the xylem is a layer of cells called the endodermis. These cells have thick waxy barrier between them. This barrier is called the 'Casparian Strip' and prevents water loss. In order to enter the plant, water has to enter the plant cells of the Casparian Strip in order to get into the roots. This barrier is not only effective in keeping water in the root but also prevents its easy entry into the plant. You can test this if you have any potted plants. When potted plants wilt you can water them. You could also cut a stem off the plant and place the stem in a glass of water. The cut stem will return to normal much faster than the potted plant because it does not have to pull water through the roots. As the soil dries out, root growth slows. The zone of elongation becomes shorter and the casparian strip reaches almost to the root tip. This reduces both water loss and water uptake by the root.
Many plants have root hairs on their roots. These are tiny rootlets from the outermost cells of the roots, which penetrate the soil around the roots, increasing the root's surface area, which increases the absorption of water and nutrients. In most root systems, most of the roots are located in the uppermost soil layer. As the soil dries out during the growing season root growth moves deeper and deeper in the soil. This means that the plant is able to draw water from a larger volume of soil.
Water has to enter the plant cells to get into the roots, but plant cells do not actively take up water. The water moves into the cells because they are full of salts and sugars. Root cells receive sugars from the leaves and actively absorb salts from the soil. This concentration of salts and sugars causes water from the soil to move into the cell. This water is then pulled to the xylem by the active transport of salt ions into the xylem. The stem of the plant is simply a plumbing system. The inner layers are the wood or xylem, which carries water from the roots up to the leaves. 
Water in the xylem is drawn up the through the stem by suction from the leaves because water is evaporating through the stomates into the air. If water flow into the roots cannot keep up with evaporation from the leaves then the stomates begin to close. This usually happens every day. The stomates open at dawn in response to light and photosynthesis begins in the leaves. By the late morning, the roots are struggling to keep up with the demand for water from the leaves and the stomates begin to close and photosynthesis declines. Later in the day, in the mid- to late afternoon when the roots have caught up, the stomates open and photosynthesis increases. 
There are several bottlenecks that impede water flow from the soil to the roots. One, is the soil-root contact, which is not continuous and as the root dries out it shrinks away for the soil particles. Another is that water has to flow through the soil to the roots. Water can flow through wet soil fairly quickly, but the flow slows as the soil dries. Finally there is the barrier inside the root (the Casparian Strip). In essence, there is a continuous path of water through the soil and the plant then out the leaves into the air. Soil and plant scientists call this the Soil-Plant-Air-Continuum (SPAC). The movement of soil nutrients towards the roots is with the water that is being drawn to the roots by the plant's uptake of water. We call this movement of water and the nutrients dissolved in it mass flow. That's how water moves in the soil and into the roots. 
The stem of the plant is simply a plumbing system. The inner layer the wood or xylem carries water from the roots up to the leaves. In the leaves most of the water is evaporated out to the air. This water is not really wasted because it cools the leaves as it evaporates. If you do not think the plant gets hot, go stand in the sun all day in a dark green suit and see how much you sweat. Both you and the plant are cooling yourselves by evaporation. When the plant's loss of water through evaporation exceeds the amount of water coming into the leaves from the roots, the leaves begin to wilt. To go back to my analogy of a plant cell as a wet cardboard box filled with a balloon when we let water out of the balloon the box will sag. This is what happens when plants wilt. The hydraulic pressure in the cells is no longer enough to hold the cells erect. The guard cells around the stomates in the leaves close the stomates when they wilt. When the guard cells are plump and full, they hold the stomates open.
A tiny amount of water is used in photosynthesis to make sugar. The rest is used to carry the sugar through the plant to where it is needed. Leaf cells load the sugar they have made into the phloem, which is made up of long cells laid end to end. The phloem is the other half of the plants plumbing system. Where the xylem carries water and nutrients, the phloem carries sugar. Unlike the xylem, which is an open system, the phloem is a closed system. When water flows into it after the sugar it creates pressure that moves the plant sap to the various organs that use it for growth. This could be to new leaves and shoots, to the fruit or the roots for new root growth and to provide energy for the root's metabolism. The cells that are using the sugar unload it from the phloem. If these cells are actively growing they will also absorb some of the water. The water that is not absorbed is evaporated or diffuses back into the xylem where it is drawn off to evaporate somewhere else.
Now, lets look at how the plant grows and uses water over the course of the year. In the early spring, as the ground begins to warm, the roots begin to grow. The roots use sugar, which was stored in the roots the previous year, for this growth. Many growers will put on fertilizer at this time so the roots can absorb it. But the roots take up very little, because plants with no leaves don't use water. As the buds begin to grow they use sugar that was stored in the buds. The new leaves do not have a waxy cuticle, so water is lost fairly rapidly. Now the plant begins to take up water from the soil. The roots and shoots are growing at the same time. There is plenty of water and sugar to go around. The roots grow where the conditions are best. Most root growth takes place in the moist warm surface soil early in the year. If the soil is saturated with water, as in flooded fields, the roots may drown. As the soil dries, the roots grow downward. If the soil remains wet, because of a wet spring, a high water table, or a low spot in the field, then the root system will remain shallow. 
After bloom as the fruit begins to grow, the shoots, fruit and new leaves demand lots water and almost all the sugar that the leaves produce so that root growth slows. At this time the root system of the plant is about as big as it is going to get during the growing season. The early period of fruit growth is very important in determining final fruit size. For about a month after bloom the fruit grows by cell division. Later, the fruit grows by cell enlargement. So, two factors influence fruit size, cell number and cell size. Bigger fruits have more cells, so the final fruit size is determined in the month after bloom. Lack of water reduces the growth of new shoots and leaves. This means that there is less sugar to be used for fruit growth. Fruits compete with the shoots and leaves for both water and sugar and are often at the end of the line. If there is a heavy crop only those leaves nearest the fruit will supply the energy needed for growth. Among the fruit, fruit from the early blooms is the largest and gets first call on nutrients. For good sized fruit, we need to maintain a good flow of water from the roots to the leaves. Since the root system is no longer rapidly growing the soil needs to recharged with water by rain or irrigation to keep the root system moist.
As the soil dries, the volume of water moving to the stems decreases and it becomes harder to maintain growth. As growth slows, first fruit growth stops, then shoot growth stops. The energy from the leaves is not being used to maintain top growth but is transported to the roots to maintain root growth into moist soil as the roots grow. Roots cannot grow in dry soil. Plants in sandy soil or plants that have shallow root systems from flooding or soil restrictions are at a real disadvantage because they cannot maintain contact with the soil if it dries out rapidly. 
As the drought stress increases, we begin to see visible signs, such as wilting during the day. Stem growth stops. This actually happens one to two weeks before we notice it, because new leaves continue to emerge after the shoot stops growing. There may be three or four leaf buds already formed in the shoot tip. The shoot tip stops forming new leaves, but those already formed continue to grow and emerge. Sometimes we notice that leaves in the middle of the shoot are smaller or have pointed tips. These are signs that water was limited when these leaves were expanding so they did not grow to their full potential. If drought stress continues, the older leaves will turn yellow and drop off. This reduces the leaf area, reducing water loss, but also decreasing the plant's ability to make sugar and stunts the plant.
As long as we maintain soil moisture throughout the growing season the roots will be able to maintain an adequate flow of water to the leaves to maintain growth. By the time of final fruit swell, most of the shoot and leaf growth for the season has stopped. Fruit growth takes all the plants energy. Sugar and water are used to produce large, juicy fruit. After harvest the plant begins to prepare for next years growth. Sugar is stored as starch in the bark of the shoots and in the roots. At this time, root growth begins again and the roots will be actively growing if the soil is moist. If the soil is dry and drought stress continues then food reserves for next seasons growth are reduced and the root system is small and weak. This can result in decreased growth next year because the root system is small and there is little energy available for growth. Fall is also the time when plants prepare for the coming winter and stress can reduce winter hardiness and also weaken growth in the spring making it more susceptible to spring frost.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 31, 2010)

hey doc, like i said earlier. what is the best additive safe for plants to disinfect water with? i went to the store and saw all kinds of chlorines for pools but was unsure if it was safe enough to use for plants. have any idea?


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## doc111 (Jan 31, 2010)

aeviaanah said:


> hey doc, like i said earlier. what is the best additive safe for plants to disinfect water with? i went to the store and saw all kinds of chlorines for pools but was unsure if it was safe enough to use for plants. have any idea?


I am only aware of a couple of safe means of chemical disinfection for water: Chlorine and Iodine. Too much of either of these will more than likely create problems for you. The good thing about Chlorine is that it evaporates from the water relatively quickly. Unfortunately it's depndant on how much water you're disinfecting and how much chlorine you use. I honestly don't think that chemical disinfection is the way to go. You could look into one of those handheld water purifiers for camping. They work good but they only filter a relatively small amount of water per day. I found this website which sells UV water disinfecting systems. They are a bit pricey but if you have a lot of plants this shouldn't be too big a problem. 

http://www.expertwatersolutions.com/ultraviolet.html


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## Klaat (Jan 31, 2010)

What do you think about well water?? It has to be much better than city water. Mine is hard and has mg, ca, and fe in it. Just seeing what your thoughts are, on this issue.


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## gogrow (Jan 31, 2010)

Klaat said:


> What do you think about well water?? It has to be much better than city water. Mine is hard and has mg, ca, and fe in it. Just seeing what your thoughts are, on this issue.



it all depends on what your well water is like.... it could be too high in sulphur or iron.... or it could be some damn good water.... it all depends on your source for the well


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## doc111 (Feb 1, 2010)

gogrow said:


> it all depends on what your well water is like.... it could be too high in sulphur or iron.... or it could be some damn good water.... it all depends on your source for the well


Exactly!^^^^^^


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## Klaat (Feb 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Exactly!^^^^^^


Well hopefully it's the "damn good water!" I'll let yall know!


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## doc111 (Feb 3, 2010)

Klaat said:


> Well hopefully it's the "damn good water!" I'll let yall know!


I'm interested to know how it turns out.


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## Tyrannabudz (Feb 5, 2010)

Hydrogen monoxide


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## doc111 (Feb 6, 2010)

Tyrannabudz said:


> Hydrogen monoxide


Do you mean "Dihydrogen Monoxide"? Yeah, that's the same thing as water. 

Next!!!


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## TheOldRat (Feb 7, 2010)

the Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions that are in normal water before it is soffened are replaced by 
the Na+ ions (which do not form scale) ...by using a water softener.

is this a good thing or no?


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## doc111 (Feb 8, 2010)

TheOldRat said:


> the Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions that are in normal water before it is soffened are replaced by
> the Na+ ions (which do not form scale) ...by using a water softener.
> 
> is this a good thing or no?


Softened water isn't good to use for growing.


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## doc111 (Feb 8, 2010)

A hydrogen bond is the attractive force between the hydrogen attached to an electronegative atom of one molecule and an electronegative atom of a different molecule. Why is this important you ask? To really understand why water is so important and what gives it its special properties one must look at water on the molecular level. Hydrogen bonding is so important that life as we know it simply would not exist without this seemlingly insignifcant little attractive force. I found this article which I think really explains hydrogen bonding far better than I ever could. It's a long read but if you want to better understand the "Most essential compound" this is a great article. It was too long to copy and paste but I provided the link. Enjoy:

http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/states/water.html

This website also provides links to some good reads about water (I recommend you smoke a fatty before tackling some of them).


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## BudsworthII (Feb 12, 2010)

Doc...great thread. Currently on my first grow. Organic soil. I'm bubbling tap water for now...and using pH down to bring into the 6.2-6.5 range. I'm probably going to get an RO filter...but it's months away. 

In all my research on organic grows, I keep finding that maintaining your micro-herd in the soil alive and thriving is one of the most important things. While bubbling gets rid of Chlorine...Chloramine not so much. I'm using FF Ocean Forest. I'm just concerned that the Chloramine is going to kill any beneficial little guys in my soil.

A couple of things:

1) Do you think I'm okay until I can get an RO filter?
and
2) Can you help me read this thing? http://www.denverwater.org/WaterQuality/QualityReports/
I'm looking at the 2009. I don't know what is acceptable on there for plant consumption...and what is not. It's a one page brochure type of thing.

Thanks for your help.


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## doc111 (Feb 12, 2010)

BudsworthII said:


> Doc...great thread. Currently on my first grow. Organic soil. I'm bubbling tap water for now...and using pH down to bring into the 6.2-6.5 range. I'm probably going to get an RO filter...but it's months away.
> 
> In all my research on organic grows, I keep finding that maintaining your micro-herd in the soil alive and thriving is one of the most important things. While bubbling gets rid of Chlorine...Chloramine not so much. I'm using FF Ocean Forest. I'm just concerned that the Chloramine is going to kill any beneficial little guys in my soil.
> 
> ...


Your water looks pretty good as far as I can tell. Chloramine is pretty conroversial. I've seen articles saying that it is bad for growing and others that say there is no evidence it hurts anything. I'm not a scientist so I've done no experiments of my own in this area (my tapwater is disinfected with chlorine anyway). Grocery stores have water machines which are r/o filtered. If you bring your own jug they are usually about $.25 per gallon. I think you will be ok until you get an r/o filter of your own if you decide not to go that route. You can get r/o filters for cheap on e-bay too. Best of luck and thanks for the compliment. 

P.S. You can try using molasses which is supposed to help keep your beneficials happy.


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## mismos00 (Feb 12, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I am only aware of a couple of safe means of chemical disinfection for water: Chlorine and Iodine. Too much of either of these will more than likely create problems for you. The good thing about Chlorine is that it evaporates from the water relatively quickly. Unfortunately it's depndant on how much water you're disinfecting and how much chlorine you use. I honestly don't think that chemical disinfection is the way to go. You could look into one of those handheld water purifiers for camping. They work good but they only filter a relatively small amount of water per day. I found this website which sells UV water disinfecting systems. They are a bit pricey but if you have a lot of plants this shouldn't be too big a problem.
> 
> http://www.expertwatersolutions.com/ultraviolet.html



What about Hydrogen Peroxide... or bleach even (is that close to chlorine?)... (I think that's what the guy above was referring to, but he typed monoxide instead.)


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## doc111 (Feb 12, 2010)

mismos00 said:


> What about Hydrogen Peroxide... or bleach even (is that close to chlorine?)... (I think that's what the guy above was referring to, but he typed monoxide instead.)


What about hydrogen peroxide? I'm pretty sure he was being clever (Hydrogen or Dihydrogen monoxide is the same thing as water). Hydrogen peroxide is H202. Very similar name and a very similar molecule. That's pretty much where the similarities end. Bleach is Sodium Hypochlorite (NaOCl). The molecule for bleach contains 1 atom each of Sodium (Na), Oxygen (O), and Chlorine (Cl). To answer your question, bleach contains chlorine. 

P.S. I'm not really sure about using Hydrogen peroxide for disinfecting water. I'm sure it would work but is it safe?


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## BudsworthII (Feb 12, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Your water looks pretty good as far as I can tell. Chloramine is pretty conroversial. I've seen articles saying that it is bad for growing and others that say there is no evidence it hurts anything. I'm not a scientist so I've done no experiments of my own in this area (my tapwater is disinfected with chlorine anyway). Grocery stores have water machines which are r/o filtered. If you bring your own jug they are usually about $.25 per gallon. I think you will be ok until you get an r/o filter of your own if you decide not to go that route. You can get r/o filters for cheap on e-bay too. Best of luck and thanks for the compliment.
> 
> P.S. You can try using molasses which is supposed to help keep your beneficials happy.


Thank you so much.

I've always been told that we have pretty good water here. I am contemplating the water machines at the stores though. I currently just have clippings that I'm trying to get to root...and 5 Mandala Safari Mix seeds that I just put in soil last night...

...and really...I know my anxieties are just first time growers excitement. I'm trying not to over do anything. But that's got my brain spinning from trying to suppress it all. 

Really...thank you for such a great thread.


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## doc111 (Feb 12, 2010)

BudsworthII said:


> Thank you so much.
> 
> I've always been told that we have pretty good water here. I am contemplating the water machines at the stores though. I currently just have clippings that I'm trying to get to root...and 5 Mandala Safari Mix seeds that I just put in soil last night...
> 
> ...


No problem. I'm always glad to help.


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## mismos00 (Feb 12, 2010)

doc111 said:


> What about hydrogen peroxide? I'm pretty sure he was being clever (Hydrogen or Dihydrogen monoxide is the same thing as water). Hydrogen peroxide is H202. Very similar name and a very similar molecule. That's pretty much where the similarities end. Bleach is Sodium Hypochlorite (NaOCl). The molecule for bleach contains 1 atom each of Sodium (Na), Oxygen (O), and Chlorine (Cl). To answer your question, bleach contains chlorine.
> 
> P.S. I'm not really sure about using Hydrogen peroxide for disinfecting water. I'm sure it would work but is it safe?


Well it's just hydrogen and oxygen and I've definitely heard of people using it, both for disinfecting and to increase oxygen to the roots. Couldn't be worse than Chlorine or Iodine.


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## doc111 (Feb 12, 2010)

mismos00 said:


> Well it's just hydrogen and oxygen and I've definitely heard of people using it, both for disinfecting and to increase oxygen to the roots. Couldn't be worse than Chlorine or Iodine.


Just Hydrogen and Oxygen huh? You are correct. People do use H2O2 for disinfection of things. I don't think chemical disinfected water is preferable over say UV disinfection especialy when used for growing. Hydrogen peroxide in it's concentrated form can be very dangerous. Too much of it can kill off beneficials and can fry your plant. The stuff you buy at the pharmacy is only like 3%. I've never used it for growing but I've been told that it's pretty much useless. Remember, Hydrogen played a key role in bringing the Hindenburgh down. It was Oxygen that basically caused the Apollo 1 capsule to burn violently killing all 3 astronauts. Hydrogen and Oxygen are not harmless. I am not an expert on using peroxide for growing so I can't answer all of your questions about why people use it. It's an oxydizer so it gives of oxygen thereby delivering more oxygen to the roots. If you wish to use it just be careful of highly concentrated forms and maybe try it on only 1 plant to see how it affects it. Best of luck to you my friend.


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## mismos00 (Feb 12, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Just Hydrogen and Oxygen huh? You are correct. People do use H2O2 for disinfection of things. I don't think chemical disinfected water is preferable over say UV disinfection especialy when used for growing. Hydrogen peroxide in it's concentrated form can be very dangerous. Too much of it can kill off beneficials and can fry your plant. The stuff you buy at the pharmacy is only like 3%. I've never used it for growing but I've been told that it's pretty much useless. Remember, Hydrogen played a key role in bringing the Hindenburgh down. It was Oxygen that basically caused the Apollo 1 capsule to burn violently killing all 3 astronauts. Hydrogen and Oxygen are not harmless. I am not an expert on using peroxide for growing so I can't answer all of your questions about why people use it. It's an oxydizer so it gives of oxygen thereby delivering more oxygen to the roots. If you wish to use it just be careful of highly concentrated forms and maybe try it on only 1 plant to see how it affects it. Best of luck to you my friend.


Thanks, and yes, those chemicals in pure gas form can be flammable and quite volatile, but I don't think it is poisonous or toxic like chlorine and iodine. I've gargled with H2O2... don't think it would be wise to do the same thing with chlorine or iodine.


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## doc111 (Feb 12, 2010)

mismos00 said:


> Thanks, and yes, those chemicals in pure gas form can be flammable and quite volatile, but I don't think it is poisonous or toxic like chlorine and iodine. I've gargled with H2O2... don't think it would be wise to do the same thing with chlorine or iodine.


If your tapwater is disinfected with chlorine then you've not only gargled with it but you probably ingest it quite regularly whether you realize it or not. Iodine is in almost all table salt so you are undoubtedly ingesting it as well. The H2O2 you gargled with is like 3% tops. It's all about levels. Almost anything in too high a concentration or high enough a dose is dangerous. Certain things are more toxic than others but when you take a rather harmless element and combine it with another relatively harmless element you can get something which is not so harmless. Like I said, do some research on Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). I think you will find that pharmacy H2O2 is not concentrated enough to be of any real benefit. The stuff you get at the hydro shop is more like 30% (maybe more, I've never used it). It can be dangerous so do your homework and be sure not to use too much of it.


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## doc111 (Feb 12, 2010)

I found a site with some information about the dangers of highly concentrated H2O2. It is used in growing but there is as much criticism as there is praise. Be informed and never discount a chemical as "harmless" because its constituent parts and highly dilluted forms are deemed as "safe". Here is the link:

http://www.solvaychemicals.us/static/wma/pdf/6/6/0/4/HH-2323.pdf


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## edwardtheclean (Feb 13, 2010)

my plants drink plenty of water, i also have good grows only changing the water and cleaning the container twice a full grow, in a hydro system of course,


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## doc111 (Feb 13, 2010)

edwardtheclean said:


> my plants drink plenty of water, i also have good grows only changing the water and cleaning the container twice a full grow, in a hydro system of course,


That's what they do. Cleanliness is a preventive measure. If cleaning your res. twice per grow keeps problems from occurring then it sounds like you're all good.


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## riddleme (Feb 13, 2010)

I did a lot of research into H202 and this is a permalink to my post with what I found

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/284736-goin-loco-first-colorado-medical-5.html#post3604625

Like you said it can be very dangerous if misused cause it kills things

but used properly has a lot of benefits 

By the way Doc this is a great thread, thanks for doing this!


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## doc111 (Feb 13, 2010)

riddleme said:


> I did a lot of research into H202 and this is a permalink to my post with what I found
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/284736-goin-loco-first-colorado-medical-5.html#post3604625
> 
> ...


Thank you my friend, for the link and the compliment. It was my pleasure. I've not used H202 for growing but the firefighter in me knows a little something about dangerous chemicals. I'm fairly sure that the concentrations used for our purposes will cause some skin irritation and burning and same with the eyes. It won't kill you but I just don't want people thinking it is harmless because their knowledge of peroxide is the brown bottle that mom kept under the sink and put on our scrapes. At that concentration peroxide is fairly benign and also useless for growing, or so I'm told. The stuff at the hydro shop you should be a little bit more careful with.


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## Potato42 (Feb 18, 2010)

Great info in here! In wanting to find out more about my tapwater, I found I could contact my local supplier for an CCR, or Consumer Confidence Report which outlines just about anything I could want to know about my tapwater. This is good news because I don't have to guess about what is in it, nor do I have to pay for testing equipment or someone to run tests on it. The only downside is the report is only released once a year, and the test data will be from the previous cycle. I am only looking for general information anyway so that shouldn't be too big a deal.

You can start your search as I did here http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/ccr/whereyoulive.html?OpenView

I couldn't find mine in the list so after a quick google search and phone call I had a .pdf file in my email! Give it a try and see what's in your water.


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## edwardtheclean (Feb 20, 2010)

whats the best option for a hydro grower? distilled water is a dollar a gallon, id like to get the osmosis system but its 250, im sure ill spend that in water here soon. buying gallon after gallon after gallon....


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## kappainf (Feb 21, 2010)

Doc always puts up some nice threads, cheers.


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## Teereg (Feb 22, 2010)

Oh....so bunch of knowledge here about proper growing. Thanks. I've learned a lot. It is nice to know man that there are certain ways how you gonna successfully grow marijuana. Yeah!


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## Teereg (Feb 23, 2010)

Very comprehensive and informative...thanks a lot!
But too much water is bad for the plants, right?


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## tat2ue (Feb 23, 2010)

Doc,,,My water basically comes from the end of the line from the Mississippi river. Its ppm out of the tap is 190 to 210 and the ph varies from 6.8 up to as high as 8.0+ at times.My water really sucks so whats my best alternative?? Keep in mind the total gallons for all my nute tanks are around 180 gallons total. And i refill and top them off straight from the hose and add an off the shelf chemical that remove chlorine and chloramine from ponds and fish tanks. I have been treating my water this way for about a year and have not had any water related problems yet. Thanks for any help Hydro Master


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## travon (Feb 24, 2010)

this is what I've been looking for,great sticky


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## doc111 (Feb 25, 2010)

Potato42 said:


> Great info in here! In wanting to find out more about my tapwater, I found I could contact my local supplier for an CCR, or Consumer Confidence Report which outlines just about anything I could want to know about my tapwater. This is good news because I don't have to guess about what is in it, nor do I have to pay for testing equipment or someone to run tests on it. The only downside is the report is only released once a year, and the test data will be from the previous cycle. I am only looking for general information anyway so that shouldn't be too big a deal.
> 
> You can start your search as I did here http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/ccr/whereyoulive.html?OpenView
> 
> I couldn't find mine in the list so after a quick google search and phone call I had a .pdf file in my email! Give it a try and see what's in your water.


Thanks for the link.



edwardtheclean said:


> whats the best option for a hydro grower? distilled water is a dollar a gallon, id like to get the osmosis system but its 250, im sure ill spend that in water here soon. buying gallon after gallon after gallon....


You should be able to use the machines at the grocery store. It's r/o filtered, it's much cheaper than distilled and nearly as pure. 



kappainf said:


> Doc always puts up some nice threads, cheers.


Thank you. 



Teereg said:


> Oh....so bunch of knowledge here about proper growing. Thanks. I've learned a lot. It is nice to know man that there are certain ways how you gonna successfully grow marijuana. Yeah!


Thank you.



tat2ue said:


> Doc,,,My water basically comes from the end of the line from the Mississippi river. Its ppm out of the tap is 190 to 210 and the ph varies from 6.8 up to as high as 8.0+ at times.My water really sucks so whats my best alternative?? Keep in mind the total gallons for all my nute tanks are around 180 gallons total. And i refill and top them off straight from the hose and add an off the shelf chemical that remove chlorine and chloramine from ponds and fish tanks. I have been treating my water this way for about a year and have not had any water related problems yet. Thanks for any help Hydro Master


I'm told that anything above 250 ppm may not be optimal for growing. Yours is under that and the pH can be adjusted easily. If you aren't having problems I say don't change a thing. Happy growing. 



travon said:


> this is what I've been looking for,great sticky


I'm glad you enjoyed it. I've been away on business for a week or so so I apologize for not getting back to everyone sooner. It's good to be back.


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## Straight up G (Feb 26, 2010)

Hey doc it me again, the leaves on my buds are red-edged can I ask you I am thinking of flushing for 3 weeks! before I chop, I have already flushed for a week to try and fix the problem but is not working so with 2 weeks left of the flush and the lowest PPM water I can get is 105 PPM how do I get zerowater without r/o?, *more importantly is this what you would do?*

*Thankyou SUG*


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## doc111 (Feb 26, 2010)

Straight up G said:


> Hey doc it me again, the leaves on my buds are red-edged can I ask you I am thinking of flushing for 3 weeks! before I chop, I have already flushed for a week to try and fix the problem but is not working so with 2 weeks left of the flush and the lowest PPM water I can get is 105 PPM how do I get zerowater without r/o?, *more importantly is this what you would do?*
> 
> *Thankyou SUG*


It may just be the strain. Flushing is a personal preference. I typically give a week to 10 days of flush but I haven't noticed much difference with or without flushing. 105 ppm is very low and should be fine for flushing.


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## travon (Feb 26, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Now that we've discussed the different types of water purification growers use I want to talk about some of the myths and facts about water.
> 
> A lot of people let their water sit out for a period of time, usually 24 hrs to a few days. Some people run an airstone in their water as they are letting it sit. This does a couple of things. Chlorine evaporates out of water pretty quickly since chlorine is a gas at room temp. An airstone can help this chlorine evaporate a little quicker and oxygenates the water at the same time. Letting water sit out doesn't do much to eliminate Chloramine. Chloramine is a newer chemical used to treat municipal water supplies. It's basically a combination of Chlorine and Ammonia. It doesn't evaporate so filtering with a brita or some other type of carbon filter is necessary to remove it. Reverse osmosis also removes chloramine.
> 
> ...


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## doc111 (Feb 26, 2010)

travon said:


> doc111 said:
> 
> 
> > Now that we've discussed the different types of water purification growers use I want to talk about some of the myths and facts about water.
> ...


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## ThyCheeseLord (Feb 27, 2010)

hey, can you help me. i have to grow my weed out in the woods and i was wondering if i could set up a drip water system from a river into the plants, would this work or would it rot the roots or something? the plants will be under a polytunnel type greenhouse i am building so they wont get any rain water.


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## doc111 (Feb 27, 2010)

ThyCheeseLord said:


> hey, can you help me. i have to grow my weed out in the woods and i was wondering if i could set up a drip water system from a river into the plants, would this work or would it rot the roots or something? the plants will be under a polytunnel type greenhouse i am building so they wont get any rain water.


I don't see why it wouldn't work. As long as the river isn't badly polluted or something I don't see why it wouldn't work.


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## businessmen (Feb 28, 2010)

On my water report what is the hardness ppm? Averages 378. TDS avg-713 PH 7.6 calcium only 104 and magnesium 29. Could I get lockout? Sulfate 244 sodium 44
Could this b a nutrient lockout from my hard water- please take a look at this thread. 

https://www.rollitup.org/organics/299899-ayone-had-problems-indonesian-bat.html 

Im at the end of my rope. But I just still having a hard time jumping on the fancy water bandwagon. Nobody worries too much about it when growing anything else in their gardens. I mean, our hard water, clay soil, and alkalinity is renowned here but.... Ive only gotta get the plant thru 3 months. Thank you, and great thread.


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## doc111 (Mar 1, 2010)

businessmen said:


> On my water report what is the hardness ppm? Averages 378. TDS avg-713 PH 7.6 calcium only 104 and magnesium 29. Could I get lockout? Sulfate 244 sodium 44
> Could this b a nutrient lockout from my hard water- please take a look at this thread.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/organics/299899-ayone-had-problems-indonesian-bat.html
> ...


That's pretty hard water. If you haven't been able to come up with a solution it may be time to try switching your water. You can get r/o water at most grocery stores for around $.25 per gallon. You will need some sort of cal-mag product because you will most likely get these deficiencies if using r/o or distilled water. From reading through your thread it sounds like you've been doing way too much stuff to those poor plants. There is such a thing as loving your plants to death. Don't try to compare your houseplants to cannabis. Water quality isn't usually an issue but if you are having problems you may be one of those rare cases.


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## businessmen (Mar 1, 2010)

THanks I just moved and my water mighta been a little better before. I know I got real desperate with the last batch when they were dying. Im just baffled. Never had a problem I cant diagnose. Thank you for taking a look! I even did flush them occasionally with rainwater or R/O from the store. I always thought the problem with hard water is salt accumulation. So you normally just want to give an occasionall flush.


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## businessmen (Mar 1, 2010)

Just called my old water district, TDS was 500 something, 512 I think. Dont know if that was last year or this years average. Last year was the end of a 4 yr drought. This year very rainy. The water report for my house now that said 713 was last year.


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## doc111 (Mar 1, 2010)

businessmen said:


> THanks I just moved and my water mighta been a little better before. I know I got real desperate with the last batch when they were dying. Im just baffled. Never had a problem I cant diagnose. Thank you for taking a look! I even did flush them occasionally with rainwater or R/O from the store. I always thought the problem with hard water is salt accumulation. So you normally just want to give an occasionall flush.


No problem. Hard water can be extremely challenging to deal with. Unfortunately it's not as simple as giving an occasional flush with r/o. 



businessmen said:


> Just called my old water district, TDS was 500 something, 512 I think. Dont know if that was last year or this years average. Last year was the end of a 4 yr drought. This year very rainy. The water report for my house now that said 713 was last year.


Those numbers are well into the extremely hard range. It's no wonder you are having problems. Try doing a mix of r/o and your tapwater until you acheive around 150ppm and you shouldn't have any problems. If so you should be able to adjust accordingly knowing that your water isn't the problem. Best of luck my friend.


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## CWL (Mar 1, 2010)

Well never thought about water , but i use the condensation thats pumped from the furnance, its pumped straight into a jub in my room, it saves my from filling up jugs and walking them to the room...so would this water be ok?


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## doc111 (Mar 2, 2010)

CWL said:


> Well never thought about water , but i use the condensation thats pumped from the furnance, its pumped straight into a jub in my room, it saves my from filling up jugs and walking them to the room...so would this water be ok?


Be careful using that water. It can contain high amounts of copper, lead, bacteria and other nasty stuff. You can try running it through a brita filter. That should remove most of the nasty stuff.


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## CWL (Mar 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Be careful using that water. It can contain high amounts of copper, lead, bacteria and other nasty stuff. You can try running it through a brita filter. That should remove most of the nasty stuff.


 Thanks all just go back to the tap water...


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## Gardenmaster1 (Mar 2, 2010)

I often use the water from my dehumidifier in my grow room and it's about 5ppm.


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## sagensour (Mar 2, 2010)

Gardenmaster1 said:


> I often use the water from my dehumidifier in my grow room and it's about 5ppm.


 
Nice thread and thank you. Some of this fluid/water from coils or heat exchanger are made just like rain water, however I'd rather use rain water since coil/exchanger water can contain acids and such. So can rain water though. I use city water that I filter with carbon with KDF filter

The best way to test for hardness/calcium is with a Grains Per Gallon testkit. Thats the best way. PPM/TDS is very hard to break apart when looking for specific componds. Although it is possible.

Water is the universal solvent. This means, water breaks apart whatever it touches and takes apiece of what it touches with it. An attraction. 

Total Dissolved Solids are the only thing that actually gets dissolved into the water, like salt and suger etc. Dissolved sollids have EC value. Use R/O or DI tank get rid Dissolved Solids.

Undisollved solids are compounds that dont break apart or dissolve in water. Most things like organics(Sand,rock,hair)They have no EC value or very very little EC value. Sediment filters work for Un-dissolved solids. 

The water, as it travels from the clouds will come through the sky and the ground and then it starts its solvent process.(picking up shit)
If you live in a non-polluted area like in the woods or the bay, you will most likely have lower Total Dissolved Solids(TDS) out of a well.
If you live in an area with lots of industry with floating soluable chemicals around in the air(LA), you will most likely to have a higher TDS out of a well.

Most chemicals break down and become soluable into the water and become a Total Disolved Solids. Sometimes the water has a higher TDS(pollution) when it hits the ground from the sky and then it gets cleaned by compounds in the ground and it comes out cleaner(lower TDS) than it when it entered. 


Really, water is just highly solvent H20 and should have a virgin TDS of 0TDS/PPM.

As H20 travels through the sky or the earth it will loss or gain dissolved or undissolved solids. Since H20 is a solvent it mave have picked up diffrent material or componds depending on where its at. You may like these compounds and you may not.

In N.Y. the TDS maybe @ 100PPM and in SF the TDS maybe 100PPM, but that doesnt mean that they have the same amount of certain dissolved solids. Make sense? 

No water with the same TDS is the same. Never! I would recommend a Reverse Osmosis for areas with a high TDS and a Carbon KDF Filter with areas that have low TDS

Low being 50ppm or less and high being above 50.

Hope that helps Yo! SS


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## doc111 (Mar 2, 2010)

*Hard Water*

*Hard water* is usually defined as water which contains a high concentration of calcium and magnesium ions. Measurements of hardness are given in terms of the *calcium carbonate equivalent*, which is an expression of the concentration of hardness ions in water in terms of their equivalent value of calcium carbonate. Water is considered to be hard if it has a hardness of 100 mg/L or more as calcium carbonate. 







_Hard water causes bathtub rings._​ 

*Softening* is the removal of hardness from water. This is not a required part of the water treatment process since hard water does not have any health consequences. However, hard water is problematic for a variety of reasons. Hard water makes soap precipitate out of water and form a scum, such as the ring which forms around bathtubs. In addition to being unsightly, the reaction of hard water with soap results in excessive use of soaps and detergents. Hard water may also cause taste problems in drinking water and may shorten the life of fabrics washed in hard water. Finally, hard water harms many industrial processes, so industries often require much softer water than is usually required by the general public.








_Calcium carbonate scale on a piece of pipe._​ 

Excessively hard water will nearly always have to be softened in order to protect the water treatment plant equipment and piping systems. At a hardness of greater than 300 mg/L as calcium carbonate, scale will form on pipes as calcium carbonate precipitates out of the water. The scaling can damage equipment and should be avoided. 



*Sources of Hardness*

Hardness generally enters groundwater as the water percolates through minerals containing calcium or magnesium. The most common sources of hardness are limestone (which introduces calcium into the water) and dolomite (which introduces magnesium.) Since hardness enters water in this manner, groundwater generally has a greater hardness than surface water. There are also regional variations in hardness, shown by the map below.





 

Since they are the two most widespread and troublesome ions in hard water, it is often said that hardness is caused by calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+) ions dissolved in water. However, hardness can be caused by several other dissolved metals as well, including strontium (Sr2+), iron (Fe2+), and manganese (Mn2+). You will notice that all of the hardness-causing ions are divalent cations, meaning that they have a charge of positive two. Metals such as sodium (Na+) and potassium (K+) with a charge of positive one do not cause hardness. 



*Types of Hardness*

As mentioned above, hardness in water is caused by a variety of divalent cations, primarily calcium and magnesium. These cations have a tendency to combine with anions (negatively charged ions) in the water to form stable compounds known as *salts*. The type of anion found in these salts distinguishes between the two types of hardness - carbonate and noncarbonate hardness. 

*Carbonate hardness compounds*
*Noncarbonate hardness compounds*
Calcium carbonate (CaCO3)Magnesium carbonate (MgCO3)Calcium bicarbonate (Ca(HCO3)2)Magnesium bicarbonate (Mg(HCO3)2)Calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2)Magnesium hydroxide (Mg(OH)2)
Calcium sulfate (CaSO4)Magnesium sulfate (MgSO4)Calcium chloride (CaCl2)Magnesium chloride (MgCl2

As you can see in the table above, *carbonate hardness* is caused by metals combined with a form of alkalinity. *Alkalinity* is the capacity of water to neutralize acids and is caused by compounds such as carbonate, bicarbonate, hydroxide, and sometimes borate, silicate, and phosphate. In contrast, *noncarbonate hardness* forms when metals combine with anything other than alkalinity.

Carbonate hardness is sometimes called *temporary hardness* because it can be removed by boiling water. Noncarbonate hardness cannot be broken down by boiling the water, so it is also known as *permanent hardness*. In general, it is important to distinguish between the two types of hardness because the removal method differs for the two. 

When measuring hardness, we typically consider *total hardness* which is the sum of all hardness compounds in water, expressed as a calcium carbonate equivalent. Total hardness includes both temporary and permanent hardness caused by calcium and magnesium compounds. 



*Hardness Problems*

In addition to having different removal methods, carbonate and noncarbonate hardness can cause different problems. Carbonate hardness is the most common and is responsible for the deposition of calcium carbonate scale in pipes and equipment. The equation below shows how this deposition is formed in the presence of heat:


Calcium bicarbonate &#8594; Calcium carbonate + Water + Carbon dioxide
Ca(HCO3)2 &#8594; CaCO3 + H2O + CO2​ 

In addition to the scale (calcium carbonate) produced, carbon dioxide resulting from this reaction can combine with water to give carbonic acid which causes corrosion of iron or steel equipment. 

In contrast, noncarbonate hardness is the culprit in forming soap scum. Noncarbonate hardness reacts with the carbonate alkalinity found in soap and detergents in this reaction:


Calcium sulfate + Sodium carbonate &#8594; Calcium carbonate + Sodium sulfate
CaSO4 + NaCO3 &#8594; CaCO3 + Na2SO4​


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## doc111 (Mar 2, 2010)

sagensour said:


> Nice thread and thank you. Some of this fluid/water from coils or heat exchanger are made just like rain water, however I'd rather use rain water since coil/exchanger water can contain acids and such. So can rain water though. I use city water that I filter with carbon with KDF filter
> 
> The best way to test for hardness/calcium is with a Grains Per Gallon testkit. Thats the best way. PPM/TDS is very hard to break apart when looking for specific componds. Although it is possible.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post.............I think. You are correct about water being the universal solvent. That doesn't mean that everything dissolves in water. Hard water is caused by water picking up minerals as it travels through the ground and bedrock. TDS gives you the Total Dissolved Solids so you have no idea how much calcium and magnesium is in the water. It may be all calcium and no magnesium. Hardness has very little to do with industry. In industrialized areas you are more likely to have acid rain, heavy metals and sulfur compounds in your water. I have to say I disagree with your assertion that 50 ppm and over is very hard water. Usually water isn't classed as hard until it reaches around 200 ppm. In fact I have a book by Ed Rosenthal called the Marijuana Garden Saver. It recommends you adjust your water up to 150ppm with cal/mag if you are using distilled-r/o or soft tapwater (you would want to adjust the ppm down if using hardwater). I wrestled with cal-mag deficincies until I started doing this. Ever since I've had no problems with these deficiencies so I would say it's pretty sound info in my experience.


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## sagensour (Mar 2, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Thanks for the post.............I think. You are correct about water being the universal solvent. That doesn't mean that everything dissolves in water. Hard water is caused by water picking up minerals as it travels through the ground and bedrock. TDS gives you the Total Dissolved Solids so you have no idea how much calcium and magnesium is in the water. It may be all calcium and no magnesium. Hardness has very little to do with industry. In industrialized areas you are more likely to have acid rain, heavy metals and sulfur compounds in your water. I have to say I disagree with your assertion that 50 ppm and over is very hard water. Usually water isn't classed as hard until it reaches around 200 ppm. In fact I have a book by Ed Rosenthal called the Marijuana Garden Saver. It recommends you adjust your water up to 150ppm with cal/mag if you are using distilled-r/o or soft tapwater (you would want to adjust the ppm down if using hardwater). I wrestled with cal-mag deficincies until I started doing this. Ever since I've had no problems with these deficiencies so I would say it's pretty sound info in my experience.


I never said Industry effects hardness. Your correct, not all solids become dissolved by the ultimate solvent(water). I also didnt say exactly that 50ppm and over was VERY hard or VERY high in TDS, its just high to me when Im feeding my plants some unknown dissolved solid. I'd rather not. If your feeding with R/O water then I can understand your point with haveing to add Calmag supplement since calcium and magnesium are some of the most abundent solids sources in water. When you use R/O dont you remove those solids?....Yes, then ofcourse you will have to add back in the Cal Mag. 

What if water was @ 200ppm with a GPG of 1. Is it still hard water??????Lemme know.


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## businessmen (Mar 2, 2010)

I think you forgot carbon filtration in your examples of filtration


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## doc111 (Mar 3, 2010)

What is Activated Carbon?
Activated carbon (AC) is a natural material derived from bituminous coal, lignite, wood, coconut shell etc., activated by steam and other means, and each one have different adsorption properties (e.g. bituminous carbon for high chlorine reduction capacity). Some manufacturers use various blends of carbon to achieve specific water quality and contaminants reduction (e.g. coconut shell carbon for "sweet taste").




Activated carbon surface properties are both hydrophobic and oleophilic; that is, they &#8220;hate&#8221; water but &#8220;love&#8221; oil. When flow conditions are suitable, dissolved chemicals in water flowing over the carbon surface &#8220;stick&#8221; to the carbon in a thin film while the water passes on.
This process is called _*adsorption.* _As a result of the adsorption process,activated carbon is an effective method in removing chlorine and it's by-products (TTHM's) and volatile organic compounds (carbon based VOC's). Both, man-made and naturally occurring including among others:


alachlor
atrazine
benzene
carbofuran
carbon tetrachloride
chlorobenzene
2,4-D
dibromochloropropane (DBCP)
O, P-dechlorobenzines
forms of dichloroethylens

1, 2-dechloropropane
cis-1,3-dichloropropylene
toxaphene
chlordane
radon
lindane
simazine
PCB's
toluene
xylenes etc., etc.
What other chemicals AC by it's self is not reducing?
None carbon based anions (-) and cations (+) such as arsenic, fluorides, some heavy metals, nitrate, etc.
What forms does it come in?
Most popular forms of activated carbon used in the treatment of POU drinking water filters are *granular* activated carbon (GAC), *extruded* solid carbon block (CB) and *powdered* activated carbon (PAC).
What is granulated activated carbon (GAC)? 




All activated carbon forms including granulated activated carbon (GAC) have a tremendous surface area resulting from its porous structure. GAC filters degree of effectiveness depends on the flow rate of the water and contact time with the water. If flow rate is excessive their efficiency could be as low as 0% and if the flow rate is slow their efficiency can match and or exceed those of different carbon forms.
For comparative purpose, a teaspoon of activated carbon have surface area the size of a football field.
What are the advantages of GAC vs. other form of carbon?
On a large scale such as municipal water treatment pools (gravity filters) for taste, odor and chemical reduction GAC is cheaper, very effective and can be re-used.













Powdered activated carbon used in CB and PAC cartridgesFine granule carbon used in GAC cartridgesCoarse mesh carbon used for industrial and municipal gravity water filters
Can I make my own GAC water filter?
Sure. If you are a bit handy you can make a GAC water filter using standard 3" PVC pipe, fittings and few accessories for less than five dollars. If you intend to market your "invention" you must apply a fancy label around the pipe and come up with some catchy name such as "spring", "natural water", "pure", something on that order. Kidding, take a little break from this boring technical stuff however don't leave, it's getting more interesting or, for quick and easy to understand the filtration principle go to Doulton's filtration principle.
Can silver impregnated GAC remove bacteria?
*No form of carbon filter removes bacteria*. In fact under quite normal operating condition all carbon forms can and do become perfect breeding grounds for bacteria, including pathogenic bacteria. Silver based GAC's are effective in controlling bacterial growth and multiplications (bacteriostatic) only for a short time because the silver is in form of a "spray" over a small percent of granules (usually 1.05% of the total GAC content). As the water passes the granules "rub off" each other leaching the silver prematurely. As we mentioned earlier, a POU filter containing silver based GAC must register that device with EPA, that does not mean is approved by EPA.
My inexpensive GAC water filter is rated for 10.000 gallons while more expensive "block" water filters are only rated for 500 gallons, why are they so much more expensive?
First of all your 10K filter is rated for chlorine reduction which if properly designed and used will do the job for that quantity, a more expensive "block" filter rates their "life-span" on specific contaminants reductions such as lead, THM's etc. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Granted that you use your 10K chlorine reduction filter within short time you are fine, otherwise you are taking chances of bacterial and chemical "dumping" contaminations.
What micron pore rating is my GAC filter?
These filters cannot be measured in micron pore size due to their granular state. They are measured in mesh size similar to that of your window screen. Coarse carbon is used in different applications while in domestic POU finer mesh is used followed by a cloth like "filter" to prevent granule escaping.





What is "channeling" or "dumping" means?
"Channeling" is water passing through least resistant path of the granule bed avoiding contact time with carbon resulting lower effectiveness. "Dumping" is sudden change in your water pressure releasing the trapped contaminants into your glass. "Dumping" can occur also if your carbon filter media is exhausted (over used). Some times this is visible as a "gray" water but most often is not. This happen with pressure filter cartridges.
Sounds like the GAC water filters are terrible buy?
Not quite. If your water is municipally supplied a well designed GAC filter with changeable cartridge is all you'll need, don't forget to change the cartridge at least every 6 months. Avoid those "high capacity" throw away filters unless you use that capacity within 6-9 months.
Why should I buy expensive carbon block water filter instead of less expensive pitcher-style or faucet-mounted water filters?
Let me ask you a question. *Do you want your drinking water to be cleanest, semi-clean or just somewhat clean?* Those gadgets are made with small amount of GAC and ion exchange media. The most popular pitcher-style "filter" was developed many years ago in Germany to strip the water from calcium and magnesium (hardness). Why? In those days car batteries required periodic refill with water. The distilled water being so acidic was eating the lead cells while hard water was shorting the cells. Of all GAC filters these are the least effective and cheapest to buy however, the most expensive to use on ongoing basis (low capacity "filters"). NSF standard 42 have 3 classes for chlorine reduction; class I is >75% reduction, class II is 50-75% reduction and class III is 25-50% reduction. Most of those filters falls under class III. It's like "you get what you pay for" rule.
*Conclusion:* In most cases, pre and post-filtration, including a ceramic filter element will improve the effectiveness of the GAC filter.
- Top of Page -​*Extruded Carbon Block (CB)*





Of all carbon forms *solid carbon block* (CB) filters are the most efficient and cost effective methodof removing volatile organic carbon compounds (VOC's, insecticides, pesticides and industrial solvents) from drinking water.​By adding various ion exchange media (e.g. zeolite, activated alumina or other media) *heavy metal*, *MTBE*, *nitrate* and other water treatment effects can be achieved.

CB's are made of single or various blends of carbons combined with plastic polymers which are pulverized to a fine dust then shaped in varieties of forms under high pressure (600 to 800 tons). Unlike the other carbon forms, the CB's are industrial grade filters. They are made in various sizes and micron ratings (nominal), are physically strong therefore they do not "channel" nor "collapse"under pressure change, however once carbon block is exhausted for chemical removal have to be changed according to the manufacturers specifications.

Most 1/2 micron nominally rated CB filters are effective in cysts and asbestos reduction (not removal). CB's are the best choice for POU filters.

CB filters by itself have to be used on microbiological safe water.
The best CB filter is inside Doulton ceramic shell and Aquasana filtration system. 
Can my 1/2 micron CB protect me against bio-terrorism on our water supplies?
Not at all. For that you'll need a laboratory grade RO system, a filter with 1/2 micron or less absolute ANSI standard pore size, distillers and UV's to some extent.
*Powdered Activated Carbon (PAC)*

As with CB's, molded or powdered activated carbon (PAC) are very effective method of removing volatile organic compounds (insecticides, pesticides and industrial solvents) from drinking water. 
As with all carbon forms change these filters often and do not wait until quality of the water taste has deteriorated.
The best and only PAC filter made in USA is Multi-Pure solid carbon block.
NOTE: All POU activated carbon water filters should be used on microbiologically safe water only. 
At last, here we are, more tech stuff which you have been patiently waiting for.
What is it all this stuff about microns, pore size ratings, nominal, absolute etc. means?
Pore size - Absolute vs. Nominal Microns (µm) Pore Ratings>>


Source: DoultonUSA


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## doc111 (Mar 3, 2010)

businessmen said:


> I think you forgot carbon filtration in your examples of filtration


Hadn't forgotten...........I just hadn't gotten to it yet.


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## doc111 (Mar 3, 2010)

*Water in Plants - Plant Biology*



The movement of molecules, specifically water and any solutes, is vital to understand in light of plant processes. This will be more or less a quick review of several guiding principles of water motion in reference to plants. 
*Molecular Movement*


*Diffusion*Diffusion is the net movement of molecules or ions from an area of higher concentration to an area of lower concentration. Think of it as a rebalancing. The molecules or ions are said to be moving along a diffusion gradient. If molecules or ions moving in the opposite direction are said to be moving against a diffusion gradient. Diffusion will continue until a state of equilibrium is reached. Rates of diffusion are affected by temperature and the density of the involved molecules among other things. In the leaves, water diffuses out via the stomata into the atmosphere.
*Osmosis*Osmosis in plant cells is basically the diffusion of molecules through a semipermeable, or differentially permeable, membrane from a region of higher solute concentration to a region of lower solute concentration. The application of pressure can prevent osmosis from occurring. Plant physiologists like to describe osmosis more precisely in terms of potentials. Osmotic potential is the minimum pressure required to prevent fluid from moving as a result of osmosis. Fluid will enter the cell via osmosis until the osmotic potential is balanced by the cell wall resistance to expansion. Any water gained by osmosis may help keep a plant cell rigid or turgid. The turgor pressure that develops against the cell walls as a result of water entering the cells vacuole. This pressure is also referred to as the pressure potential. The crunch when you bite into a celery stick is as a result of the violation of the cells turgor pressure. The osmotic potential and pressure potential combined make up the water potential of a plant cell. If there are two cells next to each other of different water potentials, water will move from the cell with the higher water potential to the cell with the lower water potential. Water enters plant cells from the environment via osmosis. Water moves because the overall water potential in the soil is higher than the water potential in the roots and plant parts. If the soil is desiccated then there will be no net movement into the plant cells and the plant will die.
*Plasmolysis*Plasmolysis is the loss of water via osmosis and accompanying shrinkage of the protoplasm away from the cell wall. When this occurs, the cell is said to be plasmolyzed. This process can be reversed if the cell is placed in fresh water and the cell is allowed to regain its turgor pressure. However, as with anything living, there is a point of no return and permanent or fatal damage to the cell can occur.
*Imbibition*Imbibition is the swelling of tissues, alive or dead, to several times their original volume. This is a result of the electrical charges on materials in suspension (colloidal) such as minerals, cellulose and starches attracting highly polar water molecules which then move into the cell. This swelling process is the initial step in the germination of seeds.
*Active Transport*Active transport is the energy assisted movement of substances against a diffusion or electrical gradient. This process requires enzymes and a proton-pump embedded in the plasma membrane. The pumps are energized by ATP moleculesa cellular energy storage molecule.
*Water and its Movement Through the Plant*

Roughly 90% of the water that enters a plant is lost via transpiration. Transpiration is the loss of water vapor through the leaves, just to refresh you. In addition, less than 5% of the water entering the plant is lost through the cuticle. Water is vital to plant life, not just for turgor pressure reasons, but much of the cellular activities occur in the presence of water molecules and the internal temperature of the plant is regulated by water. Recall that the xylem pathways go from the smallest part of the youngest roots all the way up the plant and out to the tip of the smallest and newest leaf. This internal plumbing system, paired with phloem and its nutrient transportation system, maintains the water needs and resources in the plant. The issue of the processes by which water is raised through columnsof considerable height at timeshas been studied and debated for years in botany circles. The end result is the cohesion-tension theory. 
*The Cohesion-Tension Theory*
Polar water molecules adhere to the walls of xylem tracheids and vessels and cohere to each other which allows an overall tension and form columns of water in the plant. The columns of water move from root to shoot and the water content of the soil supplies the columns with water that enters the roots via osmosis. The difference between the water potentials of the soil and the air around the stomata are capable of producing enough force to transport water through the plantfrom bottom to top and thus goes the cycle. 
*Transport of Food Substances (Organic Solutes) in Solution*

Phloem is responsible for transporting food substance throughout the plant. As with water movement in plants, the movement of organic solutes in plants has been studied and debated for years. The currently accepted hypothesis is the pressure-flow hypothesis for the translocation of solutes. 
*The Pressure-Flow Hypothesis*

This is essentially a source and sink hypothesis. Food substances that are in solution flow from a source, which is generally where water is taken up by osmosis (roots; food storage tissues, such as root cortex or rhizomes; and food producing tissues such as mesophyll in leaves), and the food substances are then given up at a destination or a sink where the food resources will be utilized in growth. The idea is that the organic solutes are moved along concentration gradients existing between sources and sinks. 
At the source, phloem-loading occurs and sugars are moved by active transport into the sieve tubes of the smallest veins. The overall water potential in the sieve tube drops and then water enters the phloem cells via osmosis. The resulting turgor pressure from the movement of the water is enough to drive the solution through the sieve network to the sink . The sugar is unloaded at the sink via active transport and water then exits the ends of the sieve tubes. The pressure drops as the water exits, which causes a mass flow from the higher pressure at the source to the now lowered pressure at the sink. Much of the water that exits the sieve tubes will diffuse back into the xylem where it can be recirculated, transpired once it reaches the source. In a nutshell the mass flow is caused by drops in turgor pressure at the sink as the sugar molecules are removed. This generates the next push of materials toward the sink. 
*Regulation of Transpiration*

It is the responsibility of the stomata to regulate transpiration and gas exchange via the actions of the guard cells. The pores of the stomata are closed when turgor pressure in the guard cells is low, and they are open when turgor pressure is high. Changes occur when light intensity, carbon dioxide concentration or water concentration change. The guard cells of the stomata use energy to take up potassium ions from adjacent epidermal cells.The uptake opens the stomata because water potential in the stomata drops and water moves into the guard cells and increases turgor pressure. When the potassium ions are released, the water then leaves the cells as the water potential shifts again. There is evidence that stomata will close with water stresses, but there also seems to be some indication that hormones are involved cause a loss of potassium ions from the guard cells and thus a pore closure. 
Most plants keep their stomata open during the day and close them at night. However, there are plants that do the opposite and open their stomata during the night when overall water stress is lower. These plants have a specialized form of photosynthesis called CAM photosynthesis since the standard source of carbon dioxide is shut off as the stomata are closed during daylight hours. There are desert plants that are able to store carbon dioxide in their vacuoles in the form of organic acids that are converted back into carbon dioxide during the daytime for standard photosynthetic processes. As mentioned earlier, there are also adaptations such as sunken stomata which reduce the loss of water. Submerged or partially submerged plants generally do not have stomata on the underwater portions of their leaves. 
High humidity will reduce transpiration rates while low humidity accelerates the process. There is a direct correlation between temperature and water movement out of the leaf. At high temperatures the rate of transpiration increases, while the opposite occurs at lower temperatures. 
*Mineral Requirements for Growth*

Many external factors will affect growth rates and quality. The minerals available in the local soil is one such source of external input. Essential plant elements include: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, potassium, nitrogen, sulphur, calcium, iron, magnesium sodium, chlorine, copper, manganese, cobalt, zinc, molybdenum, and boron to name the most common. Other minerals are required but they vary greatly from plant to plant. For example some algae need large amounts of iodine and silicon, while some loco weed species need seleniumwhich is poisonous to cattle on its own. 
*Macronutrients and Micronutrients*

When any of these elements are lacking in the soil and the deficiencies are not compensated for by adding fertilizer compounds of compost the plant will demonstrate characteristic symptoms of mineral deficiencies. Most commercial fertilizers are some ratio of nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium and thus are able to compensate for a wide variety of issues. As an example of uses for the essential element in plants we will look at a few elements and how they are utilized:
*Nitrogen*used in the building of proteins, nucleic acids and chlorophyll
*Potassium*responsible in the process of enzyme activation, usually found in the Meristems
*Calcium*vital part of the middle lamella and has a direct role in the movement of substances through cell membranes
*Phosphorus*vital role in respiration and cellular division also used in the synthesis of energy compoundsATP and ADP
*Magnesium*central component of the chlorophyll molecule and involved in enzyme activation
*Sulphur*structural component of many amino acids
*Iron*integral in chlorophyll production and plays role in respiration
*Manganese*enzyme activator
*Boron*role in calcium ion use, not clearly understood

As you can see by scanning through the list, all of these elements are involved to one degree or another in vital life sustaining processes!


Source: Biology online


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## businessmen (Mar 3, 2010)

Actually sorry, I notice after I said that, you had a few sentences on the first page. Just meant to remind in case anyone wanted to know about it.


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## doc111 (Mar 3, 2010)

businessmen said:


> Actually sorry, I notice after I said that, you had a few sentences on the first page. Just meant to remind in case anyone wanted to know about it.


No worries my friend.


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## kappainf (Mar 6, 2010)

Hey doc, what kind of portable RO unit would you recommend?


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## doc111 (Mar 7, 2010)

kappainf said:


> Hey doc, what kind of portable RO unit would you recommend?


I don't have a brand preference. They are pretty much the same. The stealth r/o systems are popular. You can find a ton of reasonably priced r/o filters on e-bay. I've seen them for as low as $79!


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## smokie927 (Mar 13, 2010)

very comprehensive post,this is the second one i've seen like this so far. I suggest keep it simple and get,"HANNA". Measures everything. The EC like most advanced nutrient measuring controllers is converted into TDS(total dissolved solids) Which is your ppm. Nice post Doc. Stay up Oregon.


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## doc111 (Mar 14, 2010)

smokie927 said:


> very comprehensive post,this is the second one i've seen like this so far. I suggest keep it simple and get,"HANNA". Measures everything. The EC like most advanced nutrient measuring controllers is converted into TDS(total dissolved solids) Which is your ppm. Nice post Doc. Stay up Oregon.


I agree that people should keep it simple. Especially if you are new at this. The purpose of this thread is to educate people about the water they use, problems people run into with their water, to show them their purification options, etc.


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## Silky Shagsalot (Mar 15, 2010)

smoke is a young jerk who thinks he knows it all, lol. the last s in kiss is smoke. LOL!!!


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## Wordz (Mar 15, 2010)

smokie927 said:


> very comprehensive post,this is the second one i've seen like this so far. I suggest keep it simple and get,"HANNA". Measures everything. The EC like most advanced nutrient measuring controllers is converted into TDS(total dissolved solids) Which is your ppm. Nice post Doc. Stay up Oregon.


naww i think the post was great i feel sorry you wanted it simpler. Idiocracy here we come


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## doc111 (Mar 15, 2010)

Silky Shagsalot said:


> smoke is a young jerk who thinks he knows it all, lol. the last s in kiss is smoke. LOL!!!


Damn kids!!!  lol!


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## BlueTrain (Mar 16, 2010)

excellent thread. appreciate the info.


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## doc111 (Mar 16, 2010)

BlueTrain said:


> excellent thread. appreciate the info.


I appreciate that and I'm glad you found it helpful.


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## Tyrannabudz (Mar 16, 2010)

Hydrogen Monoxide rocks!


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## doc111 (Mar 16, 2010)

Tyrannabudz said:


> Hydrogen Monoxide rocks!


...........Dihydrogen monoxide, aqua, l,eau, das wasser, it's all good!


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## monkz (Mar 16, 2010)

Doc man havnt spoken ina while, im likin the thread very informative!
I buy water which has traces of many minerals but the real reason i buy it is coz its at a ph of 6.2 which is much better than dam tap water,
what u think?


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## doc111 (Mar 16, 2010)

monkz said:


> Doc man havnt spoken ina while, im likin the thread very informative!
> I buy water which has traces of many minerals but the real reason i buy it is coz its at a ph of 6.2 which is much better than dam tap water,
> what u think?


What's happening bro? I haven't seen you on here in a while. Thanks for the compliment. Bottled water is usually fine for growing. It typically has a little bit of calcium and magnesium to make it taste better which your plants need. And the pH is within range (although a bit on the low side). How's your grow going?


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## monkz (Mar 16, 2010)

Not bad man i just started a new grow about 3 weeks ago
got 3 snow white
2 white widow
2 blue widow
2 black widow

i harvested my other grow about 6weeks ago the WW and applejack we're my fav

as for the ph being low i thought 6.2 was ok, what do you recommend?


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## doc111 (Mar 16, 2010)

monkz said:


> Not bad man i just started a new grow about 3 weeks ago
> got 3 snow white
> 2 white widow
> 2 blue widow
> ...


No, your pH is fine. I try to keep mine at 6.5 but that's just me. If 6.2 is working for you then don't change a thing! I see you have an all widow grow going. I really enjoyed my white widow.


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## caregivers (Mar 25, 2010)

This an absolute must read for every hydroponic grower. Such an informative in depth look at water and its components. I thought I knew basically all there is about water but dang still learned a thing or two in this thread. +rep


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## doc111 (Mar 25, 2010)

caregivers said:


> This an absolute must read for every hydroponic grower. Such an informative in depth look at water and its components. I thought I knew basically all there is about water but dang still learned a thing or two in this thread. +rep


Always glad to hear it. Water is so important, yet so taken for granted by a lot of people.


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## BombaY (Apr 7, 2010)

haha nice nice


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## captkron0201 (Apr 8, 2010)

so this might sound really stupid but i just want a definite answer before i move forward...if i was to boil a bunch of water, pour it back into my watering bottles and let it return to room temp before giving it to my plants, that would be the best kind of water i could feed my babies?????


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## Someguy15 (Apr 8, 2010)

captkron0201 said:


> so this might sound really stupid but i just want a definite answer before i move forward...if i was to boil a bunch of water, pour it back into my watering bottles and let it return to room temp before giving it to my plants, that would be the best kind of water i could feed my babies?????


lol bacteria wise maybe... dissolved solids no way. By boiling off water your just concentrating whats left in the pot. The process you are thinking of is steam distillation. Your better off buying steam distilled water then trying to setup the equipment yourself. Hence why everyone who wants near 0 ppm water uses R/O units vs. distillation.


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## captkron0201 (Apr 9, 2010)

Someguy15 said:


> lol bacteria wise maybe... dissolved solids no way. By boiling off water your just concentrating whats left in the pot. The process you are thinking of is steam distillation. Your better off buying steam distilled water then trying to setup the equipment yourself. Hence why everyone who wants near 0 ppm water uses R/O units vs. distillation.


awesome thanks for the info


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## gunnjabsgrow (Apr 10, 2010)

i was just doing a water change in my piranha tank and the stuff i mix in the water is called 'nutrafin, tap water conditioner'.
i add 1ml per gallon to remove chlorine and chloramine

i never thought of it for the plants, but would it work?
i am not suggesting it, or recommending it, i and just wondering. could be good


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## Someguy15 (Apr 10, 2010)

gunnjabsgrow said:


> i was just doing a water change in my piranha tank and the stuff i mix in the water is called 'nutrafin, tap water conditioner'.
> i add 1ml per gallon to remove chlorine and chloramine
> 
> i never thought of it for the plants, but would it work?
> i am not suggesting it, or recommending it, i and just wondering. could be good


I used something similar for a couple months. Noticed no difference at all using it so I just stopped. Still nothing. Plus they tend to remove nitrates and nitrites, something we want in solution...


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## daisy2687 (Apr 15, 2010)

I read to about page 7 and decided to take a look at my municipal water supply. I didnt get time to read the rest of the thread so please excuse me if it's been answered already.

Like someone else asked earlier my hardness is measured by mg/L and mine is 23 mg/L. My general understanding is mg/L is the definiton of ppm and interchangeable. Correct me if I'm wrong.

My main concern is it says my ph is 8.3 and they use soda ash to make it 'less corrosive' which I assume means make it less acidic. Is this bad for my plants?


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## doc111 (Apr 15, 2010)

daisy2687 said:


> I read to about page 7 and decided to take a look at my municipal water supply. I didnt get time to read the rest of the thread so please excuse me if it's been answered already.
> 
> Like someone else asked earlier my hardness is measured by mg/L and mine is 23 mg/L. My general understanding is mg/L is the definiton of ppm and interchangeable. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> My main concern is it says my ph is 8.3 and they use soda ash to make it 'less corrosive' which I assume means make it less acidic. Is this bad for my plants?


I am still working on a conversion from mg/L to ppm. I honestly don't know how hard that is. It sounds like it's pretty hard to me. pH is easy to fix but hardness is a different story. Have you noticed any problems with your plants?


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## daisy2687 (Apr 15, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I am still working on a conversion from mg/L to ppm. I honestly don't know how hard that is. It sounds like it's pretty hard to me. pH is easy to fix but hardness is a different story. Have you noticed any problems with your plants?


I think your conversion factors would involve density of the dissolved solids but we're talking ppm. Parts per million. I think for our purposes it's a straight conversion (meaning the density of the solids plays a very small role in this equation)

My thinking is it makes a straight conversion easily because H2O has a weight of 18. This is a pretty happy place for a lot of our solids in TDS. They will have pretty similar densities too.

No problems with plants except for burned tips. Always had burned tips, assumed it was from chloramide or w/e


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## doc111 (Apr 15, 2010)

daisy2687 said:


> I think your conversion factors would involve density of the dissolved solids but we're talking ppm. Parts per million. I think for our purposes it's a straight conversion (meaning the density of the solids plays a very small role in this equation)
> 
> My thinking is it makes a straight conversion easily because H2O has a weight of 18. This is a pretty happy place for a lot of our solids in TDS. They will have pretty similar densities too.
> 
> No problems with plants except for burned tips. Always had burned tips, assumed it was from chloramide or w/e


I mean I have an idea of what is considered "hard water" as expressed in ppm but not mg/L. Around here the water company uses ppm for their measurments. I'm wanting to find out what the cutoff concentrations for "hard" and "soft" water as expressed in mg/L. I've been extremely busy with work and haven't had a lot of time to do any research. Perhaps the best thing you can do is to do a comparison. Grow a couple of plants using your tapwater and do another group using distilled or r/o water. See which group is the healthiest and has the least issues. When using r/o or distilled you will most likely need some sort of cal-mag supplement.


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## onelung09 (Apr 16, 2010)

i have a question what is carbon filtered water do and what ozanated water as well


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## doc111 (Apr 16, 2010)

onelung09 said:


> i have a question what is carbon filtered water do and what ozanated water as well


Carbon filtration is a means for purifying water. Carbon filters remove many impurities in water such as organic compounds, some heavy metals and such. It doesn't really do anything to neutralilze pathogens (disease causing organisms such as bacteria and viruses). It also does not reduce hardness. Ozonated water is just as its name suggests: water that has been purified using ozone. Ozone is useful in destroying pathogens and breaking down some chemicals. It is also being used as an experimental treatment for certain cancers and HIV. Here is an article I found that touches on ozonated water a little bit:

http://www.sharinghealth.com/beckprotocol/ow.html


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## daisy2687 (Apr 16, 2010)

Doc111 any thoughts on my water supply using soda ash to raise the ph to 8.3? Soda ash is a name for sodium carbonate. Should I take this in to consideration some how?


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## doc111 (Apr 17, 2010)

daisy2687 said:


> Doc111 any thoughts on my water supply using soda ash to raise the ph to 8.3? Soda ash is a name for sodium carbonate. Should I take this in to consideration some how?


It depends on how your water company treats your water. If it is using soda ash strictly for purposes of pH adjustment then you may have an excess of sodium in your water. Sodium in small amounts isn't harmful to plants, in fact they actually use miniscule amounts of it. If soda ash is being used for the purposes of reducing hardness then the Ca and Mg ions are basically being exchanged for Na ions. Some companies then remove the excess Na from the water. Some don't. In either case there is a good chance that your water may have too much Na for your plants. If you aren't experiencing any problems then it's probably safe to assume that your water company is removing most of the Na after treatment with soda ash. 

This is an interesting question and unfortunately different municipalities use different methods based on the water chemistry being treated. This makes it very difficult to predict what problems a person may run into when using tapwater for their plants.


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## daisy2687 (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for the quick replys. The website explicitly says they use it to adjust the PH because the water is drawn from a 'natural source' (we run off 1 resevoir for 250,000 people) and would cause corrosion if not adjusted.

Do you know what symptoms I should be looking for as far as excess Na goes? General salt buildup and lockouts? Or is there a specific Na toxicity

And to add our area has been listed in top 10 best drinking water in the US several times. So they must be putting some effort in to controlling minerals that affect taste and ppm of TDS (which if my 4 hours of research has said mg/L is nearly identical to ppm of TDS. That puts me at 23mg/L or 23ppm)



doc111 said:


> It depends on how your water company treats your water. If it is using soda ash strictly for purposes of pH adjustment then you may have an excess of sodium in your water. Sodium in small amounts isn't harmful to plants, in fact they actually use miniscule amounts of it. If soda ash is being used for the purposes of reducing hardness then the Ca and Mg ions are basically being exchanged for Na ions. Some companies then remove the excess Na from the water. Some don't. In either case there is a good chance that your water may have too much Na for your plants. If you aren't experiencing any problems then it's probably safe to assume that your water company is removing most of the Na after treatment with soda ash.
> 
> This is an interesting question and unfortunately different municipalities use different methods based on the water chemistry being treated. This makes it very difficult to predict what problems a person may run into when using tapwater for their plants.


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## doc111 (Apr 18, 2010)

daisy2687 said:


> Thanks for the quick replys. The website explicitly says they use it to adjust the PH because the water is drawn from a 'natural source' (we run off 1 resevoir for 250,000 people) and would cause corrosion if not adjusted.
> 
> Do you know what symptoms I should be looking for as far as excess Na goes? General salt buildup and lockouts? Or is there a specific Na toxicity
> 
> And to add our area has been listed in top 10 best drinking water in the US several times. So they must be putting some effort in to controlling minerals that affect taste and ppm of TDS (which if my 4 hours of research has said mg/L is nearly identical to ppm of TDS. That puts me at 23mg/L or 23ppm)


23 ppm is very low. The r/o water I use is generally between 10-15 ppm. I've never used softened water before so I've never seen Na toxicity but it is my understanding that it will cause multiple deficiency signs since it blocks most other nutrients even at small concentrations. I'm curious to know if you need cal-mag. 23 ppm is very low and I would think you would need to supplement cal-mag.


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## daisy2687 (Apr 18, 2010)

I've thought about it and could probably use a little bit, but I dont see any deficiences.. Only problem is some heat stress from one day (apparently closet doors add 15 degrees to your temps lol).

I've looked at my local hydro shop and its way overpriced. Any suggestions?


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## doc111 (Apr 18, 2010)

daisy2687 said:


> I've thought about it and could probably use a little bit, but I dont see any deficiences.. Only problem is some heat stress from one day (apparently closet doors add 15 degrees to your temps lol).
> 
> I've looked at my local hydro shop and its way overpriced. Any suggestions?


If you aren't getting any deficiencies then I wouldn't worry about it. It costs about $18 a quart where I'm from. Not terrible, but not cheap either. There are a few brands of it. You could order it off of the internet.


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## illtoxic (Apr 30, 2010)

So doc where would you suggest the best water comes from? Local grocery store bottled water?


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## doc111 (Apr 30, 2010)

illtoxic said:


> So doc where would you suggest the best water comes from? Local grocery store bottled water?


LOL! I wish it were that simple. I don't think there is such a thing as "best water". The best water IMO has a very low ppm, and is well aerated. Bottled water is almost always excellent for growing our favorite plant. It typically has a good pH and has some trace minerals in it like calcium and magnesium. I personally use r/o water from one of the grocery store machines. It's much cheaper than bottled or distilled ($.25 per gallon) and it comes out at like 10-15 ppm with a pH around 6.8. I like it because the plants basically get only what I give them. I also like it because my tapwater is utter crap! 600ppm most of the year and not suitable for drinking, let alone growing.

In summary, the best water for growing is whatever works best for your situation. Happy growing.


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## illtoxic (May 5, 2010)

Thanks for the insight! Sure helped me alot!


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## doc111 (May 5, 2010)

illtoxic said:


> Thanks for the insight! Sure helped me alot!


No problem. Always glad to help.


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## 7718 (May 16, 2010)

great info i have been having problems with ? progressively getting worse through flowering. lowest fan leaves brown at the edges and keep browning until fall off. this works its way up the plant but only on fan leaves. i just had my well water tested and ph7.4, hardness 5gpg, iron 0.8-1.0ppm, tds 186ppm, i am using biobizz soil and nutrients which is supposed to lower the ph. i just got a R O and was wondering if this should solve all my water/ nutrient issues? THANKS FOR ANY HELP


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## doc111 (May 17, 2010)

7718 said:


> great info i have been having problems with ? progressively getting worse through flowering. lowest fan leaves brown at the edges and keep browning until fall off. this works its way up the plant but only on fan leaves. i just had my well water tested and ph7.4, hardness 5gpg, iron 0.8-1.0ppm, tds 186ppm, i am using biobizz soil and nutrients which is supposed to lower the ph. i just got a R O and was wondering if this should solve all my water/ nutrient issues? THANKS FOR ANY HELP


186 ppm isn't terrible and pH is easily adjusted but is your water softened? The r/o filter is definitely worth a shot. Just make sure you get some cal-mag or some sort of calcium and magnesium supplement.


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## buzzpopper (May 26, 2010)

Hey Doc thanks for the great thread.

I have hard water. Currently running between 350/400 ppm @ 7.1/7.5 ph. I have been adjusting the ph to 6.0/6.5. I am currently using powder fertilizer that a local here makes Veg is at 20-6-16 and Bloom 9-21-12. I also add a B vitamin supplement. I use the B vitamin with both the Veg and Bloom nutes and my solution is running at 1500/1800 ppm depending on water levels in the solution box. Now 1500/1800 is pretty middle of the road for my culinary herbs and they do fantastic without any issues. Cannabis is also fine during the Veg stage. This is although my first go round using 5 gallon bucket for flower. I had always let mother nature do it before. 

I have used this system before for melons and tomatoes and never had any issues with salts I guess this could be due to rapid water uptake during fruiting. I have not ever used distilled or R/O water for the NFT hydro unit. What should TDS be running for bucket system with cannabis?


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## doc111 (May 27, 2010)

buzzpopper said:


> Hey Doc thanks for the great thread.
> 
> I have hard water. Currently running between 350/400 ppm @ 7.1/7.5 ph. I have been adjusting the ph to 6.0/6.5. I am currently using powder fertilizer that a local here makes Veg is at 20-6-16 and Bloom 9-21-12. I also add a B vitamin supplement. I use the B vitamin with both the Veg and Bloom nutes and my solution is running at 1500/1800 ppm depending on water levels in the solution box. Now 1500/1800 is pretty middle of the road for my culinary herbs and they do fantastic without any issues. Cannabis is also fine during the Veg stage. This is although my first go round using 5 gallon bucket for flower. I had always let mother nature do it before.
> 
> I have used this system before for melons and tomatoes and never had any issues with salts I guess this could be due to rapid water uptake during fruiting. I have not ever used distilled or R/O water for the NFT hydro unit. What should TDS be running for bucket system with cannabis?


I'm not a hydro guy but the little I know about hydro it's going to depend on what the strain likes and how big your plants (what stage they are in) are. It's my understanding that r/o or distilled water is even more important for hydro growers. By using purer water you are able to give the plants exactly what they need and there is no garbage in the water that will build up in your medium or interfere with nutrient uptake. Hope this helps, but you should probably check in the hydro forum for an answer to you TDS question. I don't want to give you incorrect information.


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## buzzpopper (May 27, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I'm not a hydro guy but the little I know about hydro it's going to depend on what the strain likes and how big your plants (what stage they are in) are. It's my understanding that r/o or distilled water is even more important for hydro growers. By using purer water you are able to give the plants exactly what they need and there is no garbage in the water that will build up in your medium or interfere with nutrient uptake. Hope this helps, but you should probably check in the hydro forum for an answer to you TDS question. I don't want to give you incorrect information.


Thanks for the response.


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## doc111 (May 27, 2010)

buzzpopper said:


> Thanks for the response.


No problem. Sorry it took me so long and that I couldn't be more of a help.


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## blower (May 29, 2010)

So then boilig tap water and then let cool then feed. Works the same as letting water sit over 24 hours and then to fed?


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## tagee (May 30, 2010)

water is the key! thanks for the in-depth info!! respect


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## doc111 (May 30, 2010)

blower said:


> So then boilig tap water and then let cool then feed. Works the same as letting water sit over 24 hours and then to fed?


Boiling will evaporate Chlorine and kill bacteria. It also reduces hardness a little bit. 



tagee said:


> water is the key! thanks for the in-depth info!! respect


Thank you!


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## skookum (May 30, 2010)

Cl2 dissipates in the presence of Free Oxygen and Sunlight. That is why you have to keep adding Cl2 to your pool. What comes out of your tap should be 2 ppm at most after break point and residual. I worked at a water treatment plant I know this shit. Anyway set it outside in the sunlight and the Cl2 will go away in 24 hours. I use city water straight in my misters in the greenhouse and my Girls are Great. The early leaf of while knock you on your ass. Don't be so fucking intense. Remember what this all about. If your city puts fluoride in the water you will have Girls with great teeth at most.


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## doc111 (May 30, 2010)

*Chlorine - Cl*​ 



*Chemical properties of chlorine - Health effects of chlorine - Environmental effects of chlorine *​

*Atomic number*
17
*Atomic mass*
35.453 g.mol -1
*Electronegativity according to Pauling*
3.0
*Density*
3.21*10 -3 g.cm -3 at 20 °C 
*Melting point*
-101 °C
*Boiling point*
-34.6 °C
*Vanderwaals radius *
0.127 nm
*Ionic radius*
0.184 (-2) nm ; 0.029 nm (+6)
*Isotopes*
4
*Electronic shell *
[Ne] 3s23p5
*Energy of first ionisation*
1255.7 kJ.mol -1
*Energy of second ionisation*2298 kJ.mol -1*Energy of third ionisation*3822 kJ.mol -1*Standard potential*
- 1.36 V
*Discovered by*
Carl Wilhelm Scheele in 1774​




*Chlorine*​ 
Discovered in 1774 by Carl Wilhelm Scheele, who mistakenly thought it contained oxygen. Chlorine was given its name in 1810 by Humphry Davy, who insisted that it was in fact an element.​ 
The pure chemical element has the physical form of a diatomic green gas. The name chlorine is derived from chloros, meaning green, referring to the color of the gas. Chlorine gas is two and one half times as heavy as air, has an intensely disagreeable suffocating odor, and is exceedingly poisonous. In its liquid and solid form it is a powerful oxidizing, bleaching, and disinfecting agent.
This element is a part of the halogen series forming salts. It is extracted from chlorides through oxidation and electrolysis. Chlorine gas is greenish-yellow and combines readily with nearly all other elements. 
_Applications_
Chlorine is an important chemical in water purification, in disinfectants, in bleach and in mustard gas.​ 
Chlorine is also used widely in the manufacture of many products and items directly or indirectly, i.e. in paper product production, antiseptic, dyestuffs, food, insecticides, paints, petroleum products, plastics, medicines, textiles, solvents, and many other consumer products. 
It is used to kill bacteria and other microbes from drinking water supplies.
Chlorine is involved in beaching wood pulp for paper making, bleach is also used industrially to remove ink from recycle paper. 
Chlorine often imparts many desired properties in an organic compound when it is substituted for hydrogen (synthetic rubber), so it is widely use in organic chemistry, in the production of chlorates, chloroform, carbon tetrachloride, and in the bromine extraction. 
_Chlorine in the environment_
In nature it is only found combined with other elements chiefly sodium in the form of common salt (NaCl), but also in carnallite, and sylvite. Chlorides make up much of the salt dissolved in the earth's oceans: about 1.9 % of the mass of seawater is chloride ions.
The amount of chloride in soils varies according to the distance from the sea. The average in top soils is about 10 ppm. Plants contain various amount of chlorine; it is an essential microutrient for higher plants where is concentrates in the chloroplasts. Growth suffers if the amount of chloride in the soil fall below 2 ppm, but it rarely happens. The upper limit of tolerance varies according to the crop. 
*Health effects of chlorine*​ 
Chlorine is a highly reactive gas. It is a naturally occurring element. The largest users of chlorine are companies that make ethylene dichloride and other chlorinated solvents, polyvinyl chloride (PVC) resins, chlorofluorocarbons, and propylene oxide. Paper companies use chlorine to bleach paper. Water and wastewater treatment plants use chlorine to reduce water levels of microrganisms that can spread disease to humans (disinfection).​ 
Exposure to chlorine can occur in the workplace or in the environment following releases to air, water, or land. People who use laundry bleach and swimming pool chemicals containing chlorine products are usually not exposed to chlorine itself. Chlorine is generally found only in industrial settings.​ 
Chlorine enters the body breathed in with contaminated air or when consumed with contaminated food or water. It does not remain in the body, due to its reactivity.​ 
Effects of chlorine on human health depend on how the amount of chlorine that is present, and the length and frequency of exposure. Effects also depend on the health of a person or condition of the environment when exposure occurs.​ 
Breathing small amounts of chlorine for short periods of time adversely affects the human respiratory system. Effects differ from coughing and chest pain, to water retention in the lungs. Chlorine irritates the skin, the eyes, and the respiratory system. These effects are not likely to occur at levels of chlorine that are normally found in the environment.​ 
Human health effects associated with breathing or otherwise consuming small amounts of chlorine over long periods of time are not known. Some studies show that workers develop adverse effects from repeat inhalation exposure to chlorine, but others will not.​ 
*Environmental effects of chlorine*​*
*

Chlorine dissolves when mixed with water. It can also escape from water and enter air under certain conditions. Most direct releases of chlorine to the environment are to air and to surface water.​ 
Once in air or in water, chlorine reacts with other chemicals. It combines with inorganic material in water to form chloride salts, and with organic material in water to form chlorinated organic chemicals.​ 
Because of its reactivity chlorine is not likely to move through the ground and enter groundwater.​ 
Plants and animals are not likely to store chlorine. However, laboratory studies show that repeat exposure to chlorine in air can affect the immune system, the blood, the heart, and the respiratory system of animals.​ 
Chlorine causes environmental harm at low levels. Chlorine is especially harmful to organisms living in water and in soil.
More info about the effects of gases such as chlorine in freshwater ecosystems​ 




Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/cl.htm#ixzz0pRAlGOK8​


Source: Lenntech


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## MediMary (May 30, 2010)

cool article


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## doc111 (May 31, 2010)

MediMary said:


> cool article


Thank you.


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## king john (Jun 9, 2010)

1. c is for carbon. Organic molecules contain carbon and hydrogen. Any other atoms in an organic molecule are called heteroatoms, they can be very important, but carbon and hydrogen is what makes it organic.


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## doc111 (Jun 9, 2010)

king john said:


> 1. c is for carbon. Organic molecules contain carbon and hydrogen. Any other atoms in an organic molecule are called heteroatoms, they can be very important, but carbon and hydrogen is what makes it organic.


Uhhhhhhh, OK? This is a thread about water, not about organic molecules, but thanks anyway friend.


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## learntoreed (Jun 10, 2010)

Bookmarked for sure, thank yoU!


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## rockinlespaul (Jun 15, 2010)

I've always used natural spring water from the machine at the bigger grocery stores. It's always seemed to work quite well.

Great thread, thank you!


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## doc111 (Jun 16, 2010)

rockinlespaul said:


> I've always used natural spring water from the machine at the bigger grocery stores. It's always seemed to work quite well.
> 
> Great thread, thank you!


The water in the machines at the grocery stores is usually r/o filtered tapwater from the local municipal water supply. That's what I use and the plants love it!


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## vairocks (Jun 23, 2010)

wen i bury my seedlings in2 d soil...m i supposed to start waterin dem frm dat stage...??? if nt pls b humble n explain d watering stage...  !!!


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## doc111 (Jun 24, 2010)

vairocks said:


> wen i bury my seedlings in2 d soil...m i supposed to start waterin dem frm dat stage...??? if nt pls b humble n explain d watering stage...  !!!


Yes you want to get the soil moist, not wet. It needs to stay moist, not wet, until the seed sprouts. I use a spray bottle and just mist the soil so that the surface stays moist. Once the seedling is a week or 2 old I start to let the medium dry out a bit before watering again. Hope this helps.


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## 12tree (Jun 24, 2010)

Has anyone seen the documentary "GasLand" on HBO? These people have flammable tap water. It's a very disturbing movie about natural gas mining out west.


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## doc111 (Jun 24, 2010)

12tree said:


> Has anyone seen the documentary "GasLand" on HBO? These people have flammable tap water. It's a very disturbing movie about natural gas mining out west.


I've not seen that particular documentary although I am familiar witht the phenomenon of flammable tapwater.


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## vairocks (Jun 24, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Yes you want to get the soil moist, not wet. It needs to stay moist, not wet, until the seed sprouts. I use a spray bottle and just mist the soil so that the surface stays moist. Once the seedling is a week or 2 old I start to let the medium dry out a bit before watering again. Hope this helps.


 cheers bro...no mater hw much u surf d net der r always sm bits missin wen its info...thanx once agn mate..  

grow with power \w/


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## doc111 (Jun 24, 2010)

vairocks said:


> cheers bro...no mater hw much u surf d net der r always sm bits missin wen its info...thanx once agn mate..
> 
> grow with power \w/


No problem my friend.


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## john7894 (Jun 27, 2010)

Does anyone know how often to feed the plants during flowering. Sorry if this has been brought up in this thread, but I too do not want to read 127 pages. Quickly on my system: I have a bucket-drain ebb and flo hydroponic system that is controlled by one resi and a brain going to the different buckets. When we feed, the brain pumps the nutrients for an hour and then drains. My nutrients and pH are good, but how often should I feed. I have read that you should feed 2 or 3 times a day with the system I have. 
My friend and I are arguing about when we should feed. We both agree that we should only feed while the lights are on and that we should feed first right when they wake up for their 12-hour day. He believes we should feed again three hours later so the roots have about 8 hours left to dry out in the light (to avoid root rot). I believe that we should spread out the 2nd feed to about 6 hrs after the first to dry out the roots in between the two feeds. We are both new to growing for the most part and an advanced growing opinion would be great!


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## doc111 (Jun 27, 2010)

john7894 said:


> Does anyone know how often to feed the plants during flowering. Sorry if this has been brought up in this thread, but I too do not want to read 127 pages. Quickly on my system: I have a bucket-drain ebb and flo hydroponic system that is controlled by one resi and a brain going to the different buckets. When we feed, the brain pumps the nutrients for an hour and then drains. My nutrients and pH are good, but how often should I feed. I have read that you should feed 2 or 3 times a day with the system I have.
> My friend and I are arguing about when we should feed. We both agree that we should only feed while the lights are on and that we should feed first right when they wake up for their 12-hour day. He believes we should feed again three hours later so the roots have about 8 hours left to dry out in the light (to avoid root rot). I believe that we should spread out the 2nd feed to about 6 hrs after the first to dry out the roots in between the two feeds. We are both new to growing for the most part and an advanced growing opinion would be great!


I don't do hydro but it was my understanding that the water you flood with always has nutes in it. I don't want to give you the wrong info so you should probably post in the hydroponics subforum. Best of luck and happy growing.


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## Someguy15 (Jun 27, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I don't do hydro but it was my understanding that the water you flood with always has nutes in it. I don't want to give you the wrong info so you should probably post in the hydroponics subforum. Best of luck and happy growing.


 What media? Pure hydroton you can flood them things up to 8 times a day in flowering, no problem. Start at 4, spread them evenly, first one being like 30 mins after lights on. Then try working your way up to 8x a day when they get larger, as long they don't start drooping from over-watering or anything like that.


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## doc111 (Jun 28, 2010)

Someguy15 said:


> What media? Pure hydroton you can flood them things up to 8 times a day in flowering, no problem. Start at 4, spread them evenly, first one being like 30 mins after lights on. Then try working your way up to 8x a day when they get larger, as long they don't start drooping from over-watering or anything like that.


No offense, but this is a water thread, not a hydroponics thread. I have no problem giving information that I have the answer to but I am not a hydro guy. I realize that water is a bit more important to the hydroponic grower but I believe some soil growers could benefit from some of the information in here. 

BTW what are you talking about "media"?


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## Someguy15 (Jun 28, 2010)

doc111 said:


> No offense, but this is a water thread, not a hydroponics thread. I have no problem giving information that I have the answer to but I am not a hydro guy. I realize that water is a bit more important to the hydroponic grower but I believe some soil growers could benefit from some of the information in here.
> 
> BTW what are you talking about "media"?


 Media is the term used for what your roots grow in...air (aero), water (dwc), hydroton, soil, perilite, ect...


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## john7894 (Jun 29, 2010)

sorry guys. I should have posted it somewhere in the hydro section. again my apologies. 
The medium I am using hydroton on bottom half of the bucket and rockwool cubes on the top half. I should have mentioned that. I guess my question is Can I get root rot from over watering? We are really trying to avoid that. And really 8x a day? I was thinking 3 times a day maximum.


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## doc111 (Jun 30, 2010)

Someguy15 said:


> Media is the term used for what your roots grow in...air (aero), water (dwc), hydroton, soil, perilite, ect...


I know that. I see now that you quoted me but were actually talking to john7894. That's why I was confused. Back to the topic at hand...............water!


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## Someguy15 (Jun 30, 2010)

Here's one related to water for you. Is it a requirement to use dechlorinated water when applying Mycorrhizae spores in drenches to roots? I know they are not alive until they make contact with the roots, does chlorine interfere with these processes?


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## robert 14617 (Jun 30, 2010)

thanks doc....rob


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## doc111 (Jun 30, 2010)

Someguy15 said:


> Here's one related to water for you. Is it a requirement to use dechlorinated water when applying Mycorrhizae spores in drenches to roots? I know they are not alive until they make contact with the roots, does chlorine interfere with these processes?


I wouldn't say it's a requirement but it's probably a good idea. Chlorine doesn't eliminate all bacteria it comes in contact with. It also depends on the concentration of chlorine in your water. My gut tells me that the effect would be minimal at the concentrations found in most tapwater but here is an article that gives a different perspective. 

http://www.growingedge.com/magazine/back_issues/view_article.php3?AID=190127



robert 14617 said:


> thanks doc....rob


My pleasure.


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## Ludokruis (Jul 1, 2010)

if i first boil my water till it steams for a few mins will it be better for my plant or not


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## doc111 (Jul 1, 2010)

Ludokruis said:


> if i first boil my water till it steams for a few mins will it be better for my plant or not


probably not. It depends on why you are boiling your water. If you are using rainwater or some outdoor source then boiling may be necessary. If you have hard water boiling may reduce a little bit of the hardness. Aside from those 2 things boiling will probably do you absolutely no good.


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## Someguy15 (Jul 1, 2010)

doc111 said:


> probably not. It depends on why you are boiling your water. If you are using rainwater or some outdoor source then boiling may be necessary. If you have hard water boiling may reduce a little bit of the hardness. Aside from those 2 things boiling will probably do you absolutely no good.


 Not to nitpick.... but boiling the water away would likely INCREASE the hardness as the pure water vaporizing will leave solids behind. but like u said boiling is good to sterilize rainwater. Companies who need 0 ppm water rarely use distilling... R/O is cheaper/more effective for the cost.


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## doc111 (Jul 1, 2010)

Someguy15 said:


> Not to nitpick.... but boiling the water away would likely INCREASE the hardness as the pure water vaporizing will leave solids behind. but like u said boiling is good to sterilize rainwater. Companies who need 0 ppm water rarely use distilling... R/O is cheaper/more effective for the cost.


It depends on the type of hardness. Some minerals will precipitate out at higher temps. Boiling also reduces the amount of dissolved Oxygen in the water so I don't recommend doing it unless it's necessary (ie. rainwater or pond water). If you do boil your water it might be beneficial to run an airstone in it for a day or 2 after boiling.


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## Ludokruis (Jul 2, 2010)

ok cool cool so using tap water will be the best then ill just leave it in my grow room so it gets to room temp


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## doc111 (Jul 5, 2010)

Ludokruis said:


> if i first boil my water till it steams for a few mins will it be better for my plant or not


Not really. Unless you are doing it to disinfect your water because you are using water from an outdoor source, ie. rainwater, lake water. Boiling may reduce certain things like bicarbonates so unless you are attempting to remove chemicals that are known to be in the water and can be removed by boiling, there really is no benefit.


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## CWB (Aug 17, 2010)

ok im sorry i know this may have been mentioned already but really the fact of the matter is this thing is 21 pages long and i dont have the attention span to sit here and read threw it all but anyways im just wondering if anyone can tell me how often you should water your plants ? and if the watering pattern changes at all threw the plants life ?


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## doc111 (Aug 17, 2010)

CWB said:


> ok im sorry i know this may have been mentioned already but really the fact of the matter is this thing is 21 pages long and i dont have the attention span to sit here and read threw it all but anyways im just wondering if anyone can tell me how often you should water your plants ? and if the watering pattern changes at all threw the plants life ?


You're new so I'm gonna cut you a break, but you really shouldn't come into a thread saying "This thread is too long to read." It's very offensive to the people who have taken the time to compile this work. There is no need to read the entire thread anyway. I have posts titled to help people find the info they need simply by skimming the thread. 

This thread isn't a "How to" for watering plants but rather about water purity and purification methods primarily. To answer your question though, nobody can tell you how often to water. It's dependent on a lot of factors; Indoor or outdoor, size of lights, temp, humidity, size of plants, size of containers/root mass etc. My best advice is to water when the plants need it. As you gain experience you will be better able to 'read' your plants and they will tell you what they need and when they need it. Invest in a moisture meter. They are only a couple of bucks and are an essential tool for any gardener IMO. You can also wait until the top inch or 2 of soil dries out or wait until the container feels light. Best of luck and happy growing.


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## lovetogarden (Aug 17, 2010)

Thanks doc for giving us a very comprehensive post about water and the different methods on how to understand the properties present in it. I was just thinking that probably one of the reasons why some growers have a hard time in achieving success in their garden especially in hydroponics growing is because they lack proper knowledge about essential water properties that may have an adverse effect on the plants that they are growing. Thanks again and I really learned a lot from all the info that you shared here


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## luv (Aug 18, 2010)

Wow that was a lot of reading, but made it through my first thread here. Lots of really good info. Thanks for your hard work. 

If you haven't seen "Gasland" yet, I highly recomend it especially if you get your water from a well in an area they are fracking. Some of the chemicals (glycol i think it was), will destroy the r/o membrane.

On a side note, did you know water is not a conducter of electricity. Its the crap in the water that conducts electricity.


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## doc111 (Aug 18, 2010)

lovetogarden said:


> Thanks doc for giving us a very comprehensive post about water and the different methods on how to understand the properties present in it. I was just thinking that probably one of the reasons why some growers have a hard time in achieving success in their garden especially in hydroponics growing is because they lack proper knowledge about essential water properties that may have an adverse effect on the plants that they are growing. Thanks again and I really learned a lot from all the info that you shared here


Thank you very much and welcome to RIU!


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## doc111 (Aug 18, 2010)

luv said:


> Wow that was a lot of reading, but made it through my first thread here. Lots of really good info. Thanks for your hard work.
> 
> If you haven't seen "Gasland" yet, I highly recomend it especially if you get your water from a well in an area they are fracking. Some of the chemicals (glycol i think it was), will destroy the r/o membrane.
> 
> On a side note, did you know water is not a conducter of electricity. Its the crap in the water that conducts electricity.


I'm honored that you read my thread first and made your very first post here. Welcome to RIU!

I've been doing a little bit of reading about fracking. Scary shit if you ask me. Fortunately for me there are no fracking operations anywhere close to where I live. And you are correct about water not being a conducter of electricity. Few people know this and this is the principle behind EC/ppm meters. A meter typically has 2 probes and sends an electrical current from one probe and measure how much current flows to the other probe. A reading of zero means that the water is extremely pure and won't conduct a current between probes.


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## luv (Aug 18, 2010)

doc111 said:


> I'm honored that you read my thread first and made your very first post here. Welcome to RIU!


Water is one of the bggies so I figured I would do it first. 
There is a source of water that has not yet been touched on though, here is a link to a suppliers website.
http://www.ecoloblue.com/home-office
straight out of Star Wars, though a bit pricey


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## hitman8 (Aug 19, 2010)

Doc,

I have a well where we get our water from. I believe it goes through a R/O filter in the front of the house. When i measured my ph and ppm i got 7.3 for ph and 450ppm. I had bought 50 clones, all looked green and healthy when i got them. Now my leaves on the bottom are starting to get yellow. New leafs coming in look green and healthy. Almost every clone has at least 1 yellow leaf? what would you advise me to do doc. Your help would be most greatly appreciated?

thank you

also my temps are 76 during the 18 hour ontime and 69 during the 6 hour off time. My humidity is around 60% and im using 8bulb T5 just raised them from 8" to 12" today (due to panic about yellow leafs).


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## jeffbelize (Aug 19, 2010)

Doc111 I have been growing for over 20 years and this has to be the best info i have ever read!...Most growers look at every thing but water...I live where the water sucks and i have invested in R/O filters,softners,iron filters and pre/filters,i spend well over $1000 a year on filters..When i first moved here 12 years ago i grew inside with rockwell,my first crop just got fried because of my water and i had to start using rain water(we get lots of that)But now i grow in a large green house and i cant save enought water for all summer so i invested in filters...My water comes out of the well at 680ppm,and over 8ph...i have never had it tested but you can bet its salt....Even in the green house i always have trouble with iron lock up because of the ph...I start every year with two kinds of lime,cotton seed,fish meal,and a little chicken compost to get the soil ready...then i water with teas i make,ending with bat and seabird G for flowering...Who would have ever thought bad water in the coast range of the northwest Oregon?..But even rain water is getting high ph...I seen the other day on TV are oceans are just one big soup of trash..What have we done?


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## doc111 (Aug 20, 2010)

hitman8 said:


> Doc,
> 
> I have a well where we get our water from. I believe it goes through a R/O filter in the front of the house. When i measured my ph and ppm i got 7.3 for ph and 450ppm. I had bought 50 clones, all looked green and healthy when i got them. Now my leaves on the bottom are starting to get yellow. New leafs coming in look green and healthy. Almost every clone has at least 1 yellow leaf? what would you advise me to do doc. Your help would be most greatly appreciated?
> 
> ...


Sorry it took me so long to respond. I've been busy trimming. As long as your new growth is healthy you should be ok. Older leaves don't usually recover. Keep an eye on it and consider doing something about your water. If you are getting 450ppm and that water is coming from an r/o filter, you probably have a bad membrane. You should have 10-20 ppm max if you have an r/o filter. Either that or the faucet you are using isn't on the reverse osmosis filter. Best of luck and happy growing.


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## doc111 (Aug 20, 2010)

jeffbelize said:


> Doc111 I have been growing for over 20 years and this has to be the best info i have ever read!...Most growers look at every thing but water...I live where the water sucks and i have invested in R/O filters,softners,iron filters and pre/filters,i spend well over $1000 a year on filters..When i first moved here 12 years ago i grew inside with rockwell,my first crop just got fried because of my water and i had to start using rain water(we get lots of that)But now i grow in a large green house and i cant save enought water for all summer so i invested in filters...My water comes out of the well at 680ppm,and over 8ph...i have never had it tested but you can bet its salt....Even in the green house i always have trouble with iron lock up because of the ph...I start every year with two kinds of lime,cotton seed,fish meal,and a little chicken compost to get the soil ready...then i water with teas i make,ending with bat and seabird G for flowering...Who would have ever thought bad water in the coast range of the northwest Oregon?..But even rain water is getting high ph...I seen the other day on TV are oceans are just one big soup of trash..What have we done?


Thank you very much! Sounds like you and I had very similar situations. My tapwater is municipal but it is over 600 ppm for a good part of the year! I had some clones I'd worked with for a while and I almost lost 10 of them after I moved into my current house, just because the water was so crappy! Welcome to RIU and happy growing my friend.


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## doc111 (Aug 20, 2010)

luv said:


> Water is one of the bggies so I figured I would do it first.
> There is a source of water that has not yet been touched on though, here is a link to a suppliers website.
> http://www.ecoloblue.com/home-office
> straight out of Star Wars, though a bit pricey


That's pretty cool! Star Wars indeed! Thanks for the link.


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## luv (Aug 22, 2010)

doc111 said:


> That's pretty cool! Star Wars indeed! Thanks for the link.


 thank you for starting this thread


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## doc111 (Aug 22, 2010)

luv said:


> thank you for starting this thread


My pleasure.


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## aeviaanah (Sep 9, 2010)

doc i need some help. i think we may have discussed this before 

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/365721-help-me-clarify-npk-ppm.html


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## grasshopper360 (Sep 11, 2010)

I get my water from a water dispensary in town. It does all the different filtrations like reverse osmosis and ultraviolent filtrations and only spend $0.25 a gallon. The Ph is usually at around 6.5. I have to go back every 2 days to fill my gallon jugs up, but well worth the effort for the best worry free H2O for my babies so far. All I have to do is add plant food and feed.


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## doc111 (Sep 12, 2010)

grasshopper360 said:


> I get my water from a water dispensary in town. It does all the different filtrations like reverse osmosis and ultraviolent filtrations and only spend $0.25 a gallon. The Ph is usually at around 6.5. I have to go back every 2 days to fill my gallon jugs up, but well worth the effort for the best worry free H2O for my babies so far. All I have to do is add plant food and feed.


That's how I roll too!


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## Dazedlimey (Sep 15, 2010)

Awesome thread  .......anyone know if this piece of kit is worth the $120 http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/22001044/Images/9/sky976.jpg


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## aeviaanah (Sep 15, 2010)

i get my water from the faucet  i probably have high salt buildup in my soil. if i flush i will cause hermies  hey doc come check out the grow


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## doc111 (Sep 17, 2010)

aeviaanah said:


> i get my water from the faucet  i probably have high salt buildup in my soil. if i flush i will cause hermies  hey doc come check out the grow


Will do my friend.


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## drew nettleton (Sep 17, 2010)

have you ever collected rain water is it good or bad how long would it last for


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## doc111 (Sep 17, 2010)

drew nettleton said:


> have you ever collected rain water is it good or bad how long would it last for


I have, for outdoor plants. I know of people who do it for indoor gardens but you should be cautioned about potential pH problems with rainwater as well as hitchikers. Aside from that it's usually great for plants! As for how long it lasts..............who knows?


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## aeviaanah (Sep 18, 2010)

ive collected rain water last harvest...it lasted all through veg and through flower. was good but as the doc says make sure you sterilize it before bringing it indoors....adjust the ph as well. ppm of my rain water collected from eaves was 3ppm.


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## doc111 (Sep 18, 2010)

aeviaanah said:


> ive collected rain water last harvest...it lasted all through veg and through flower. was good but as the doc says make sure you sterilize it before bringing it indoors....adjust the ph as well. ppm of my rain water collected from eaves was 3ppm.


I'm glad you brought up the ppm of your rainwater. That is right about the same ppm as distilled or really good r/o water. You may need to supplement with some cal-mag if you choose to use rainwater. Again, it all depends on your nutes and growing medium.

Another benefit of rainwater is it's free! Unfortunately, some places have little, or very unreliable rainwater so I wouldn't try to rely on it as my sole source unless you live in an area with plenty of rainfall, like the pacific northwest.


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## aeviaanah (Sep 18, 2010)

True, have you came across a cheap decent RO filter?


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## doc111 (Sep 18, 2010)

aeviaanah said:


> True, have you came across a cheap decent RO filter?


e-bay has units for as cheap as $79 last I checked. I'm about to purchase one so i don't have to haul jugs to the grocery store!


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## aeviaanah (Sep 18, 2010)

doc111 said:


> e-bay has units for as cheap as $79 last I checked. I'm about to purchase one so i don't have to haul jugs to the grocery store!


i hear ya...ive always thought of possibly using tap water in veg give a good flush with filtered water then finish using filtered water throughout flower.


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## doc111 (Sep 18, 2010)

aeviaanah said:


> i hear ya...ive always thought of possibly using tap water in veg give a good flush with filtered water then finish using filtered water throughout flower.


I'd be interested to see how that goes.


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## billboe59 (Sep 19, 2010)

Read your article on the Essentials of water... I have a koi pond, would the use of this water work better than water from my refrig water filter?


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## doc111 (Sep 19, 2010)

billboe59 said:


> Read your article on the Essentials of water... I have a koi pond, would the use of this water work better than water from my refrig water filter?


Indoor or out? Bringing water from outdoors into an indoor garden *can* cause problems. There is the potential to bring hitchhikers, algae, etc. I would check the ppm and pH of it before using it and if it's ok you could most definitely use it. I don't know that it would necessarily be better than filtered. 

Have you ever heard of _aquaponics?_ Check this article out and it should give you some insight. Fish waste is a good organic fert.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics


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## Dazedlimey (Sep 22, 2010)

Dazedlimey said:


> Awesome thread  .......anyone know if this piece of kit is worth the $120 http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/22001044/Images/9/sky976.jpg


Thanks for the response guys


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## Weerdoe (Sep 23, 2010)

your a sore loser doc!


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## doc111 (Sep 23, 2010)

Dazedlimey said:


> Thanks for the response guys


I didn't see your post. Sorry. I have looked at that gizmo here recently. It's expensive but I've been told that it's well worth the money.


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## doc111 (Sep 23, 2010)

Weerdoe said:


> As for water there is a simple solution distilled water is simply hydrogen and oxygen that if not used correctly like any other water can leech minerals and trace elements out of your soil if that is what is used and this is easily remedied with correct feeding I use distilled h2o with h2o2 (peroxide) I've always wondered how that works on a molecular level. But yeah totally healthy and leaves out all the shit doc111 mentioned.


Got a link to back up these claims???


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## Weerdoe (Sep 24, 2010)

don't hate foo you know i was right, that's why you edited my responses out of the thread


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## doc111 (Sep 24, 2010)

Weerdoe said:


> no, nor do I wish to spend my time looking for them for you, seeing as i have the knowledge and opinion in my head. Also there are no claims made here I see facts of what distilled water consists of and a fact of what any water, especially distilled(look up the polarity of water, you'll figure it out if you look enough)can do to soil, and a fact that any descent gardener knows. why, I only back your info on no minerals and stuff.


Dude, I can't even understand what you're saying. I am well aware of what distilled water consists of (they teach you that when you get your masters degree in chemistry)and I have a post about distilled water in the beginning of the thread. I have also had a few discussions throughout the thread about distilled water. I'm not pimping anything here. This thread is solely for purposes of educating growers who are interested in water quality, different types of filtration and what the differences are, and a few other things related to water. Thanks for voicing your opinion (whatever it was), and if you don't like the information in this thread you are free to disregard all of it.


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## aeviaanah (Sep 24, 2010)

lol. whats up doc?


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## budling357 (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks for the informative h2o info.


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## doc111 (Sep 25, 2010)

budling357 said:


> Thanks for the informative h2o info.


No problem my friend.


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## doc111 (Sep 25, 2010)

aeviaanah said:


> lol. whats up doc?


Just fending off trolls. You?


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## aeviaanah (Sep 25, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Just fending off trolls. You?


 lol...just gettin through this grow...having a great season! outdoors are lookin good, so are indoors. come by and check out the update.


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## doc111 (Sep 25, 2010)

aeviaanah said:


> lol...just gettin through this grow...having a great season! outdoors are lookin good, so are indoors. come by and check out the update.


I'm there!


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## lencoo12 (Sep 25, 2010)

gogrow said:


> i have never seen this comprehensively covered..... sticky-ed


 Thank you very much. I am humbled and honored to have a thread stickied. I hope people enjoy it and learn a little something in the process.


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## diesel7309 (Sep 26, 2010)

amazing fantastic post,,


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## doc111 (Sep 27, 2010)

diesel7309 said:


> amazing fantastic post,,


Thank you my friend.


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## justpassingthrough (Oct 9, 2010)

Doc, thanks very much for continuing to maintain this thread. I'm new to this stuff, I think that a lot of the trouble I'm having getting started is water-related, and I'm looking for practical solutions. I get what you're saying about grocery-store RO, but that doesn't really work for me, as the cost is significantly higher here and the distance to haul it long. So I need to figure out the right way to process my water on-site without breaking the bank with capital costs. I read this thread hoping to find a little more detail on how to attack the problem, but so far you've been a little light in that regard.

I'm working with well water, very hard e.g. 750ppm. I haven't had it analyzed, though I think that's going to happen soon. The calcium content is obvious from shower-head cloggage and the carbonate residue left on pots, and I think the iron is high as well, judging from the rust ring at the water line in the toilet. I have both a conventional salt (NaCl) softener and a consumer-grade RO. The question is whether these pieces in the right combination can solve the problem.

Reading the RO unit's specifications, they set ceilings on Mn (<.05ppm), Fe (<.1ppm) and TDS (<10gpg). That suggests that feeding hard water directly into the RO is going to fuck it up, probably by clogging the membrane. Preconditioning the water with the softener is going to yank out that stuff and add the undesirable Na, but since their specifications don't say anything about sodium that should be okay, and suggests that it'll in turn be removed by the RO. In fact, in the footnotes in the RO specs they say their ratings are based on a "supply TDS 250ppm softened tap water".

So does hooking it up in that order make sense to you, both in terms of the desired water chemistry and component longevity?


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## doc111 (Oct 9, 2010)

justpassingthrough said:


> Doc, thanks very much for continuing to maintain this thread. I'm new to this stuff, I think that a lot of the trouble I'm having getting started is water-related, and I'm looking for practical solutions. I get what you're saying about grocery-store RO, but that doesn't really work for me, as the cost is significantly higher here and the distance to haul it long. So I need to figure out the right way to process my water on-site without breaking the bank with capital costs. I read this thread hoping to find a little more detail on how to attack the problem, but so far you've been a little light in that regard.
> 
> I'm working with well water, very hard e.g. 750ppm. I haven't had it analyzed, though I think that's going to happen soon. The calcium content is obvious from shower-head cloggage and the carbonate residue left on pots, and I think the iron is high as well, judging from the rust ring at the water line in the toilet. I have both a conventional salt (NaCl) softener and a consumer-grade RO. The question is whether these pieces in the right combination can solve the problem.
> 
> ...


Well, thank you for reading and posting. Unfortunately, the methods I've outlined here are it for the most part. This is where creativity comes in. Mixing r/o with tap water to bring it into the desired range is always an option. I saw that you have a water softener and an r/o filter. You should be all set. I have read that Na softened water is hard on the r/o membrane but not much worse than really nasty hard water. The water softener basically replaces the Ca and Mg ions with Na ions. The r/o filter will remove most of the Na ions but if there is too much left behind you could have some Na related problems. A little bit (sorry, I don't know the cutoff concentrations right off the top of my head) of Na is fine for plants but too much and you're screwed! One of the keys to making your membrane last longer is to make sure the rate of waste to filtered water is in the correct range. Another is to make sure you are changing your sediment and carbon prefilters at recommended intervals, if not sooner since your water is ridiculously bad. Are you using your r/o water at this point?


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## justpassingthrough (Oct 9, 2010)

No. We've been using straight well water to maintain our mothers (in dirt), and experimenting with both well and bottled RO water in our aerocloner, but the results have been shit. My thinking now is that running the mothers on pH-adjusted well water without any added nutes is leaving them in a state too rough to yield viable cuttings for the cloner. So we're going back to first principles, cleaning up the water, adding commercial veg nutes, and see if mom's condition improves enough for us to start to get good clones.


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## doc111 (Oct 9, 2010)

justpassingthrough said:


> No. We've been using straight well water to maintain our mothers (in dirt), and experimenting with both well and bottled RO water in our aerocloner, but the results have been shit. My thinking now is that running the mothers on pH-adjusted well water without any added nutes is leaving them in a state too rough to yield viable cuttings for the cloner. So we're going back to first principles, cleaning up the water, adding commercial veg nutes, and see if mom's condition improves enough for us to start to get good clones.


Your well water is way too hard IMO. You will more than likely need to do something to fix it. You are one of the smart ones. Many people just don't believe that poor water quality will have noticeable effects on their grow. I found out the hard way and struggled for months before I took a look at my water. I think the way you are thinking of doing it (running your well water through a softener and then through the r/o filter) will probably be your best bet. Remember to change out those prefilters (in your case I'd consider doing it at least every 6 months). This is the sinlgle best thing you can do to preserve the life of the membrane. Best of luck and happy growing.


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## Worthington (Oct 11, 2010)

Very nice writeup sir, thank you for this.


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## Medi 1 (Oct 11, 2010)

good info. and did you know ro water does not remove all chloramines,. only partial. needs an upgraded filter to remove all of it.
for the hydro logic ones its a kdf 85 filter you need.


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## doc111 (Oct 11, 2010)

Medi 1 said:


> good info. and did you know ro water does not remove all chloramines,. only partial. needs an upgraded filter to remove all of it.
> for the hydro logic ones its a kdf 85 filter you need.


From what I understand a simple carbon filter will remove most chloramines and every r/o unit I've ever seen has at least one carbon prefilter.


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## Medi 1 (Oct 11, 2010)

well i sell water systems and they dont remove all of it. says partial right from factory. we sell the hydro logic and needs an upgraded kdf85 for all of it. there is a diff in the carbon to.


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## doc111 (Oct 12, 2010)

Medi 1 said:


> well i sell water systems and they dont remove all of it. says partial right from factory. we sell the hydro logic and needs an upgraded kdf85 for all of it. there is a diff in the carbon to.


This is the first I'm hearing of this. I just bought an r/o filter and it doesn't say anything about only removing "partial chloramine". I'm not saying I don't believe you but I find it hard to believe that a Brita will remove most chloramine but a carbon prefilter for an r/o system won't. I have read that r/o does remove most chloramine and I've read that it doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised if this is some sort of ploy from snake oil salesmen trying to make an extra buck off of growers. Thank you for posting.

Here is an article I found which says that a simple carbon filter* DOES* remove chloramine. http://www.pwgazette.com/problemchloramines.htm 

Unfortunately I don't work in a lab anymore or I could test this. It does go on to say that the contact time is going to determine how well chloramine is removed. After saying all that they then go on to recomend a "special" carbon filter to do the job better. It sounds supsiciously like snake oil to me but who knows?


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## Medi 1 (Oct 12, 2010)

who says brita removes chloramines? and like i said there is a diff in the quality of the carbon used in the systems....this is right in your link....

In choosing carbon for chloramine removal, a specially prepared carbon called catalytic carbon is far superior to regular carbon. there was more to the link saying the same as well.

there is a diff in carbon as we know this from making exhaust filters as well. the ones we use have a 2 year gaurantee. not many filter give that. not water but the exhaust smell filters. so my point was that not all carbon is equal.

ive gtot a chart ill show later after work...no time right now. has all what teh filters remove.

sorry for the typos here, my spell check deal isnt working


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## doc111 (Oct 12, 2010)

Medi 1 said:


> who says brita removes chloramines? and like i said there is a diff in the quality of the carbon used in the systems....this is right in your link....
> 
> In choosing carbon for chloramine removal, a specially prepared carbon called catalytic carbon is far superior to regular carbon. there was more to the link saying the same as well.
> 
> ...


I've read a lot of different websites and and articles and I've seen a lot of conflicting info. r/o filters and carbon filters* DON'T* remove everything. No filter does. Of course some are going to be better than others but how much better? Is it worth it to pay more money for a filter that removes .00000001% more chloramine from the water (I just threw that number in as an example). For some it may be worth it. I've seen companies make claims that their membranes are superior or that their carbon filter is superior because it's manufactured using some special process with special materials. Words can be manipulated in such a way as to make a product seem like it is somehow superior when in actuality it isn't. And the thing is they get away with it because of the wording. As long as the claim isn't completely false. Go ahead and put up a link or whatever. I welcome the sharing of information but I just want to caution people; just because a company makes a claim doesn't necessarily make it true.


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## Medi 1 (Oct 12, 2010)

ya i can agree that there is alot of the ...mine is better shit out there. and im not a saleman for them. i just use them and our shop sells them. selling isnt my deal. my water is near perfect from the tap but im trying the filter out to see if i do get a difference.

heres one of the charts i have. not sure if you can read what filters are for what models to the left or not.


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## justpassingthrough (Oct 13, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Your well water is way too hard IMO. You will more than likely need to do something to fix it. You are one of the smart ones. Many people just don't believe that poor water quality will have noticeable effects on their grow. I found out the hard way and struggled for months before I took a look at my water. I think the way you are thinking of doing it (running your well water through a softener and then through the r/o filter) will probably be your best bet. Remember to change out those prefilters (in your case I'd consider doing it at least every 6 months). This is the sinlgle best thing you can do to preserve the life of the membrane. Best of luck and happy growing.


Update: That's what I'm going with - running the >750ppm well water first through a conventional NaCl softener (after which the TDS is still about the same, which makes sense, as it's just swapping Na ions for those coming out of the ground), then running it through the consumer-grade RO unit (membrane + 3 filter stages) to strip out the Na, after which the TDS, according to my cheap little EC meter, is close enough to zero. This little under-sink-style unit, really just built for generating drinking water, is supposed to be good for 50 gallons/day, so I think it's going to be fine for the forseeable future. I've had it for years - installed it when we moved to this house, but mothballed it because it wasn't producing any volume. At the time I didn't bother to figure out why, but now it's clear that it was because the supply pressure wasn't high enough. I've jacked up my pressure tank and jet pump, and things seem to be working well now.


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## doc111 (Oct 13, 2010)

justpassingthrough said:


> Update: That's what I'm going with - running the >750ppm well water first through a conventional NaCl softener (after which the TDS is still about the same, which makes sense, as it's just swapping Na ions for those coming out of the ground), then running it through the consumer-grade RO unit (membrane + 3 filter stages) to strip out the Na, after which the TDS, according to my cheap little EC meter, is close enough to zero. This little under-sink-style unit, really just built for generating drinking water, is supposed to be good for 50 gallons/day, so I think it's going to be fine for the forseeable future. I've had it for years - installed it when we moved to this house, but mothballed it because it wasn't producing any volume. At the time I didn't bother to figure out why, but now it's clear that it was because the supply pressure wasn't high enough. I've jacked up my pressure tank and jet pump, and things seem to be working well now.


I'm glad to hear it's working out for you. Those r/o units have a minimum and maximum operating pressure. If you get it running correctly it should give you plenty of nice pure water for your ladies. You can drink it if you want to as well.


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## Medi 1 (Oct 13, 2010)

ya i realy doidnt need it as im already near perfect water here in B.C but i did want to see how big a deal no chloramines would be to my microbes sicne im big intpo using those and saving money on nutes. it has taken alot to get the water back down to norml. it was as tap at 7.4 then afetr filter went to 9.4...ouch. so they said i needed more water run through even if the instructions said 15 min was enough.,..ive run about 1.5 hours now and im back down to 7.4..i still want it to be 7. ppm is now 0, but was only 20 before.


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## doc111 (Oct 13, 2010)

Medi 1 said:


> ya i realy doidnt need it as im already near perfect water here in B.C but i did want to see how big a deal no chloramines would be to my microbes sicne im big intpo using those and saving money on nutes. it has taken alot to get the water back down to norml. it was as tap at 7.4 then afetr filter went to 9.4...ouch. so they said i needed more water run through even if the instructions said 15 min was enough.,..ive run about 1.5 hours now and im back down to 7.4..i still want it to be 7. ppm is now 0, but was only 20 before.


That's another one of those things I'm reading conflicting things on. Some say chloramines kill beneficials, but not all of them and not enough of them to make a serious dent in the population. Others say it absolutely decimates the microbe populations and damages the mycos and all that. Who knows. I called the manufacturer of my r/o unit and they said that their carbon block filters are rated by the EPA to remove like 99.9% of chloramine so that's good to know.


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## Medi 1 (Oct 13, 2010)

nice. ya even if they kill off only some, then it alloows the bad ones and fungi to take over and usualy why we get mildew or bugs. a healthy plant wont get them other wise. they will be able to fight them off on its own. 
i haver evven seen a conflicting sheet here now on the hydro logics, saying the filter gets some then sdays all in another pamphlet here.....who to believe hey. well at least we have the resources to find out wherre i work. so hopefully ill have my real unbiased answer from a user of the stuff. ya we sellt hem but if its not what they say i wont back anyone.


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## doc111 (Oct 13, 2010)

Medi 1 said:


> nice. ya even if they kill off only some, then it alloows the bad ones and fungi to take over and usualy why we get mildew or bugs. a healthy plant wont get them other wise. they will be able to fight them off on its own.
> i haver evven seen a conflicting sheet here now on the hydro logics, saying the filter gets some then sdays all in another pamphlet here.....who to believe hey. well at least we have the resources to find out wherre i work. so hopefully ill have my real unbiased answer from a user of the stuff. ya we sellt hem but if its not what they say i wont back anyone.


I'll be interested to see how it turns out. It's hard to trust what any company says that is also trying to sell you something, know what I mean? How any filter company can say their product catches everything is beyond me. I've never seen any filter that got 100% of what it was filtering. Some get really really close but seldom get all of it.


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## Medi 1 (Oct 13, 2010)

ill agree 100% on that one. id say pretty dam hard here to do that as well. im actualy going to call them over the next day or 2 and see what the rep tells me a a retailer of his stuff and then do my testing on my own and see how close we are to what they claim.
we have alot of products youd never see in my garden but if someone buys it or asks about it ill be honest to how to use it....anyways im baked and ramblin now.....lol


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## doc111 (Oct 14, 2010)

Medi 1 said:


> ill agree 100% on that one. id say pretty dam hard here to do that as well. im actualy going to call them over the next day or 2 and see what the rep tells me a a retailer of his stuff and then do my testing on my own and see how close we are to what they claim.
> we have alot of products youd never see in my garden but if someone buys it or asks about it ill be honest to how to use it....anyways im baked and ramblin now.....lol


lol! I don't mind rambling! Keep me posted on how this turns out please.


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## GRiMCreeper (Oct 16, 2010)

maybe i overlooked it....anything in there about well water ? lol i ask laughing as i want to blame my well water for my mishaps as it couldnt possibly be my fault im having possible, overwatering, overfeeding problems...lol


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## doc111 (Oct 18, 2010)

GRiMCreeper said:


> maybe i overlooked it....anything in there about well water ? lol i ask laughing as i want to blame my well water for my mishaps as it couldnt possibly be my fault im having possible, overwatering, overfeeding problems...lol


Well water is one of those things that can either be as pure as the driven snow, or downright nasty! Unfortunately, well water, even wells in relative close proximity can yield wildly different qualities of water. If you are on a well and can't get it tested, note how it smells (sounds funny, but a lot of well water smells like rotten eggs, indicating the presence of sulphur compounds). Is there rust or limescale on toilets and faucets? If not, you can also check it with a TDS meter, which won't tell you what's in it but it will give you an idea of how pure it is.


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## fabfun (Oct 22, 2010)

dude maybe u should take a note of the advice you gave to another newbie, so i posted your response to another thread to refresh your memory



*Weerdoe* 






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Dude, you have 5 posts to wonderblunders 2.5 thousand, your a stranger--he's Mr.Ganja Sooooooooooo, I have found when one starts to judge they become judged themselves. From one noobie to another Don't be Dickish<which is not an actual word>yourself. Just some advice.Peace, weed and uh somethin else I think....oh well lets smoke.​


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## doc111 (Oct 22, 2010)

fabfun said:


> dude maybe u should take a note of the advice you gave to another newbie, so i posted your response to another thread to refresh your memory
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This guy had a couple of posts removed from the thread. He got pretty "Dickish" so the mods came in and put the smackdown on him!


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## fabfun (Oct 22, 2010)

ouch so they dusted off the mod hand on him
well it amusing when someones post are not consistent with other post they make and they become a contradiction 

hard to treat their remarks with credibility 




doc111 said:


> This guy had a couple of posts removed from the thread. He got pretty "Dickish" so the mods came in and put the smackdown on him!


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## doc111 (Oct 22, 2010)

fabfun said:


> ouch so they dusted off the mod hand on him
> well it amusing when someones post are not consistent with other post they make and they become a contradiction
> 
> hard to treat their remarks with credibility


It's all good. I was simply having a hard time understanding his posts and he flew off the handle. It happens.


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## groovedaddy (Oct 22, 2010)

I am currently using the condensate water from my A/C. I have a portable air conditioner that averages about 2 1/2 gallons a day of condensate (more than I can use) in my grow room. Is this good water? I just assumed it would be.


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## doc111 (Oct 22, 2010)

groovedaddy said:


> I am currently using the condensate water from my A/C. I have a portable air conditioner that averages about 2 1/2 gallons a day of condensate (more than I can use) in my grow room. Is this good water? I just assumed it would be.


It's more or less distilled water and many people use it with no problems but A/C coils and dehumidifier coils cant contain some harmful heavy metals and harbor pathogens and mold spores, etc. The insidious thing about heavy metals is that they don't usually make you sick right away. They build up in your body over time and can cause a host of vague symptoms like headaches and gastrointestinal issues up to severed mental health problems and certain cancers. I personally wouldn't use it.


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## groovedaddy (Oct 22, 2010)

doc111 said:


> It's more or less distilled water and many people use it with no problems but A/C coils and dehumidifier coils cant contain some harmful heavy metals and harbor pathogens and mold spores, etc. The insidious thing about heavy metals is that they don't usually make you sick right away. They build up in your body over time and can cause a host of vague symptoms like headaches and gastrointestinal issues up to severed mental health problems and certain cancers. I personally wouldn't use it.


I always thought heavy metal was a damn good movie! Seriously though thanks for the heads up and awesome thread


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## sparkjumper (Oct 23, 2010)

All it took was one look at my dogs waterbowl to know I needed an R/O system.I'm sure its been mentioned already in this massive thread but too much calcium locks out magnesium,locks it out cold you might say.I didnt start really farming trichomes until I started using R/O water


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## Medi 1 (Oct 25, 2010)

minimum 3k per sq foot???...thats good lighting not min. a 10k lumen light is week. even a 400 mh has about 30k. how does a cfl grow them if we need min 3k. thsoe dont come anywhere enar that but yet they grow. so like i said, that isnt a min number, thats the average to good lumen level we use. what light you sue that can get a foot print of 10k per sq foot


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## 420Marine (Oct 25, 2010)

Question RE: viscosity in water....I've heard people mention putting dish soap (a drop or two from what I understand) to make the water more "viscus" How exactly does this end up helping the plant?


BTW great thread. :-]


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## doc111 (Oct 25, 2010)

420Marine said:


> Question RE: viscosity in water....I've heard people mention putting dish soap (a drop or two from what I understand) to make the water more "viscus" How exactly does this end up helping the plant?
> 
> 
> BTW great thread. :-]


Thank you!

That's a really good question! Water has _surface tension_. Dish soap is a surfactant which has chemical properties that increase the surface area of water and decrease the surface tension. Surfactants have a couple of uses for us growers. They are used to prevent water from beading up and just rolling off the surface of the leaf when applying foliar feeds and pesticides. They also increase the lateral movement of water in the soil, thus wetting dry pockets and helping increase nutrient and water uptake. I won't go into the science behind it all but I will post a link so you can do further reading if you'd like. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_tension


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## 420Marine (Oct 26, 2010)

thanks for that answer...gave a great flush last night with the dish deterrent soap..they look amazing today like they really drank it up...again thanks.


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## doc111 (Oct 26, 2010)

420Marine said:


> thanks for that answer...gave a great flush last night with the dish deterrent soap..they look amazing today like they really drank it up...again thanks.


No problem.


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## sycoscribble (Oct 26, 2010)

i have well water, which is not good for feeding due to a not so great quality, but a pur 3-stage water filter should take care of all that and be fine shouldnt it? 
thank you, and sorry if that was asked/answered somewhere else.


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## Medi 1 (Oct 26, 2010)

ya doc i never heard that one of using it in the medium. only as a foliar. i asked at work today to the guys making our nutes and they said yes to the dry pockets in the soil. nice...


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## doc111 (Oct 27, 2010)

Medi 1 said:


> ya doc i never heard that one of using it in the medium. only as a foliar. i asked at work today to the guys making our nutes and they said yes to the dry pockets in the soil. nice...


It's an old school remedy. I prefer to use something like sm-90 which is an actual wetting agent. Back when I started growing we didn't have wetting agents and all these nutes and air cooled hoods. I love progress!


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## OJ Da Juicyman (Oct 27, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Thank you very much. I am humbled and honored to have a thread stickied. I hope people enjoy it and learn a little something in the process.


Definitely learned something, the pictures help understand all these processes a lot better.


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## doc111 (Oct 28, 2010)

sycoscribble said:


> i have well water, which is not good for feeding due to a not so great quality, but a pur 3-stage water filter should take care of all that and be fine shouldnt it?
> thank you, and sorry if that was asked/answered somewhere else.


As long as it's a _reverse osmosis_ filter, yes, it should take care of all of that junk.


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## rene112388 (Oct 29, 2010)

you will never be half the man doc is


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## Peter Navin (Oct 30, 2010)

Hi i'm on my second grow ,the first one was dredfull,i'm 5 weeks in,i have 10 plants,i was hoping for some advice on how much water should i give the plants everyday,and how many times a day ?


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## MrChronicMan (Oct 30, 2010)

this would be helpful if in a language everyone understood.


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## doc111 (Oct 30, 2010)

MrChronicMan said:


> this would be helpful if in a language everyone understood.


Sorry, I don't speak "moron".


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## doc111 (Nov 1, 2010)

Ok, I haven't added anything to this thread for a while but I came across this website and it had a lot of really useful information. It's too long to copy & paste so I'll just put up the link. Enjoy!


http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education/quality-water-filtration-method.htm


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## BOBY G (Nov 1, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Sorry, I don't speak "moron".


You are a moron........


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## gogrow (Nov 1, 2010)

BOBY G said:


> You are a moron........


a new one already??? bye


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## BOBY G (Nov 1, 2010)

gogrow said:


> a new one already??? bye


Fuck you crack head.


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## fabfun (Nov 1, 2010)

seems like he never will learn




gogrow said:


> a new one already??? bye


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## gogrow (Nov 1, 2010)

BOBY G said:


> Fuck you crack head.


it IS you.... hehe


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## doc111 (Nov 1, 2010)

gogrow said:


> it IS you.... hehe


Wow! So full of hate!


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## fabfun (Nov 1, 2010)

Get a fucking life u pathetic loser get out of your mommas basement and get some air 



jacu said:


> hello again crack coke head. I am going to seriously fuck you up. So stay awake and start snorting.


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## gogrow (Nov 1, 2010)

fab, I'm on it; please stop... 


thread closed so I can clean it and keep the plenty of useful info that is here.


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## fabfun (Nov 12, 2010)

*fuck you ludacris*



froy said:


> see you later cock boy/sucker. Roflmfao........................


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## newworldicon (Nov 12, 2010)

fabfun said:


> *fuck you ludacris*


This looks like an interesting debate going on here.....hahahaha!!


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## fabfun (Nov 12, 2010)

just that assfuck luda trying to get docs thread shut down he would rather u not see this valuaable info so he can play games 




newworldicon said:


> This looks like an interesting debate going on here.....hahahaha!!


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## gogrow (Nov 12, 2010)

and with a few keystrokes, everything is gone  

sorry doc, its gotta stay closed now


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## fabfun (Mar 27, 2011)

glad this thread got reopened lots of good info here


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## Tragic420 (Apr 1, 2011)

i got clear water from a stream will that help or make things worse? the in the stream is bout 18'' deep and flowing over rocks... has some melted snow it....most of that has cleared now,,, got 20 gallons of it


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## doc111 (Apr 1, 2011)

Tragic420 said:


> i got clear water from a stream will that help or make things worse? the in the stream is bout 18'' deep and flowing over rocks... has some melted snow it....most of that has cleared now,,, got 20 gallons of it


As long as it's not polluted it should be good for growing. The only thing I feel I should caution you about is using water from an outdoor source inside. It's really easy to bring hitchikers (bugs, spores, etc.) into your nice, clean indoor environment. Just be careful and you should be good. Some people boil water that they bring in from the outside. That can be a real pain in the ass if you have a lot of plants.


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## fabfun (Apr 2, 2011)

speaking of which i glad u told me to get my new wells water tested 
didnt realize at the time this is also my water for plants so im going to definitely have this done 

and i would never bring anything from outside into my grow room now for outdoor plants it would be fine but as doc said to much shit out there that would love to mess up your grow 





doc111 said:


> As long as it's not polluted it should be good for growing. The only thing I feel I should caution you about is using water from an outdoor source inside. It's really easy to bring hitchikers (bugs, spores, etc.) into your nice, clean indoor environment. Just be careful and you should be good. Some people boil water that they bring in from the outside. That can be a real pain in the ass if you have a lot of plants.


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## SwaggCheff1 (May 12, 2011)

my plants only drink aquafina lol


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## Kingrow1 (May 22, 2011)

Ok so i just read the whole thread back to front! Wow this is good, no great! I know a bit about my water but this blew me away. I live in an area of soft water, always round pH7 and most of the rock in the whole country is slate so i guess this is why we have soft water and low mineral content. The pH is down to the great water companies and we are prized for having tasty refreshing tap water. I didn't realise the importance of cal/mag to water. I recently been having what looked like cal mag problems and couldn't work out why. Must be the water, i'd sumarise that this is what is lacking in my water and causing me to add to my plants from the first few weeks onwards?

So if i was to check this what would i need, will an ec tester do it? or is there anything else i should consider?

On a note about the brita filters, are they reverse osmosis filters? What would the filtered water ppm's be approximatly? Says they are loose granular carbon filling with an ion exchange? We live in an area where chlorine disapates from the water in 24hours, the good kind of chlorine so to say but was under the impression this was not harmfull to plants or humans?

Sorry if i have lots of questions but your thread was very eyeopening, i use to drink bottled mineral water but now might change to somthing better. Brita seems to get a bad rap on here but i would only be filtering my tap water.

One last question, i run the biobizz grow and bloom with seaweed extract, says that a ppm/ec meter will not read organic nutrients, is this true? Am seriously considering buying a hanna ph,tds/ec all in one meter as well.


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## doc111 (May 23, 2011)

Kingrow1 said:


> Ok so i just read the whole thread back to front! Wow this is good, no great! I know a bit about my water but this blew me away. I live in an area of soft water, always round pH7 and most of the rock in the whole country is slate so i guess this is why we have soft water and low mineral content. The pH is down to the great water companies and we are prized for having tasty refreshing tap water. I didn't realise the importance of cal/mag to water. I recently been having what looked like cal mag problems and couldn't work out why. Must be the water, i'd sumarise that this is what is lacking in my water and causing me to add to my plants from the first few weeks onwards?
> 
> So if i was to check this what would i need, will an ec tester do it? or is there anything else i should consider?
> 
> ...


Thank you! Cal-Mag deficiencies are very common in cannabis so if your water is relatively soft you could be experiencing one or both. Cal/Mag (there are several different brands) is a good thing to have on hand. An EC/PPM tester is a good indicator of overall water quality (hardness) but it does not tell you what is in your water. You'll need a detailed analysis from a laboratory with special testing equipment in order to give you a complete break down of what is in your water. Your water company may provide one for you at no charge. It never hurts to ask. Brita filters are NOT reverse osmosis filters. They will remove some inorganic impurities but don't really affect the overall hardness of the water. Chlorine is typically not harmful to plants but some people who grow organically are concerned about it killing off beneficial microbes and fungi. Chlorine is actually needed by plants and animals in miniscule quantities. Chlorine does evaporate relatively quickly but Chloramine does not. Chlorine and Chloramine disinfection are both highly controversial topics amongst growers, especially organic growers. I've never been able to find a study that shows the affect these chemicals have on soil microbes. Neither chemical is harmful to humans in small quantities. That is true that ppm/ec meters won't read organic nutes. The reason for this is they are not broken down into ionic forms that the plants can use. They will alter the ppm's a bit but it doesn't give you an accurate idea of the nutrient capacity. Hope this helps and welcome to RIU.


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## Kingrow1 (May 23, 2011)

Thanks doc, i have since done a lot of reading on water, pretty complicated subject but my understanding is a lot clearer now. Once again thanks and great site/info. I think i do have cal/mag issues and will proceed to buy a hanna all in one meter to clear this up. I will probably have more questions one day but probably best i do a bit or growing and learning first. What can i say for all the great info on this thread and answering my questions but thanks a million.


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## Oldreefer (May 23, 2011)

Great water breakdown doc.....as a retired chemical consultant, it was always essential that water used in factories MUST be checked occasionally so we could advise on various surfactants required to allow any chemicals to their jobs as designed....Vegetables and MJ are no different.....


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## rantz (May 25, 2011)

Wow! Awesome thread man! I've got some reading to do!


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## kingpin7658 (May 25, 2011)

hey doc great thread mad props! i was wondering if i used 9.5 ph water essentia bottled water.. http://www.essentiawater.com/ what do you think? its either this water or aquarium water from fishes! please help


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## Kingrow1 (May 26, 2011)

Hiya again, yes it's me, the one who asks all the questions, well i'm sorry but i got a wondering mind and nature!lol! Anyway i have a slightly more advanced question for you doc and it is spurned on from reading the threads about the water filters and my new found knowledge of reverse osmosis and distilled water. This may sound crazy but i can't find the answer anywhere so here gose-

Q. Say i made pure water from a reverse osmosis machine and its ppm was '0' (i am guessing its EC would also be '0'), it would have all its salts removed thus its '0'ppm, so if i wanted to reconstitute this back to normal drinking water that was good for humans to drink and plants too (not forgetting the little green fellas, we love you weed plants!) would this be possible by adding the relevant ratios of just calcium, magnesium and sodium? 

Q. What of the other minerals and stuff in mineral water like potassium, bicarbonates etc

I know it might sound stupid or off the beaten track but i had a crazy idea involving a RO machine and a bunch of salts, i could basically replicate any mineral water in the world from my home tap water. I know noone really dose this when their tap water is of great quality but hell i get weird urges to do pointless stuff. Thanking you in advance, your humble servant KINGROW the First.


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## Knox (May 26, 2011)

Great thread doc! The importantce of water can be paramount. I know too many people who will sink hundreds of dollars into snake oils but overlook the simple investment of an R/O Filter. Keep up the good work.


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## chettersbud1 (Jun 1, 2011)

Can u water with nute water during the day for outdoor plants beyween 3-5 p.m????


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## fabfun (Jun 5, 2011)

sorry guys but doc111 got banned but if u will pm me your ? i can relay them to him offsite


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## MediMary (Jun 5, 2011)

fabfun, He ain't banned.. I can still rep him.


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## fabfun (Jun 5, 2011)

he is banned it is a new kind of ban where they dont even tell u why or how long 
trust me we talk daily he is banned



MediMary said:


> fabfun, He ain't banned.. I can still rep him.


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## Kingrow1 (Jun 5, 2011)

Holy sh!t man, how do you get banned from here! That sucks! Heya fabfun, we have met before i think! Anyway can you shed some light on my last post on this thread? I kinda wanted to back engineer water, bear with me, first make tap water into ro water with 0ppm or there abouts and then add the salts back into the water. I was planning on getting real technical, can this be done? What salts will i have to obtain and their chemical name ie CaO2, as i can obtain most things through the internet.

Sounds stupid and a waste of time but technically i should be able to produce any mineral water from around the world and tip top water for my plants. I did look into this but what do you know, no info on the net. Hmm are the salts needed in water able to dissolve etc etc Ask the doc if he got time to write this down so you can let me know or if you know.

Please help as the info on this seems very scarce. I know from reading mineral water and this thread that cal, mag, potassium, sodium, bicarbonates etc etc are the main ingredients and suppose trace elements like iron etc might not need to be worried about. Yours faithfully KINGROW the First.


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## fabfun (Jun 5, 2011)

yes we meet sort of on peacefulkids thread 
i will copy and paste your post here and forward it to doc offline 
should be able to get u help by later tonight

as for how do u get banned here well it really isnt that hard lately 



Kingrow1 said:


> Holy sh!t man, how do you get banned from here! That sucks! Heya fabfun, we have met before i think! Anyway can you shed some light on my last post on this thread? I kinda wanted to back engineer water, bear with me, first make tap water into ro water with 0ppm or there abouts and then add the salts back into the water. I was planning on getting real technical, can this be done? What salts will i have to obtain and their chemical name ie CaO2, as i can obtain most things through the internet.
> 
> Sounds stupid and a waste of time but technically i should be able to produce any mineral water from around the world and tip top water for my plants. I did look into this but what do you know, no info on the net. Hmm are the salts needed in water able to dissolve etc etc Ask the doc if he got time to write this down so you can let me know or if you know.
> 
> Please help as the info on this seems very scarce. I know from reading mineral water and this thread that cal, mag, potassium, sodium, bicarbonates etc etc are the main ingredients and suppose trace elements like iron etc might not need to be worried about. Yours faithfully KINGROW the First.


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## Kingrow1 (Jun 5, 2011)

Thanks for the help and passing the post on, i am seeing water in a whole new light, they just don't teach this stuff in science at school, well sort of but they don't put the god damn peices together for you! Anyway at least this might give the doc somthing to do whilst being banned, hopefully they let him back real quick! 

If i knew how i would make my own mineral water now and again, this thread has made me shell out for a trident pH/ec/temp meter, not cheap but i will be able to ec and pH water. This i think would be a good start to making mineral water as well as distilled water and the right mineral salts. Maybe i can make some evian as the ingredients are printed on the label.

This site rock for info, only been on here few months and already growing much better weed and almost problem free. FREE DOC111!


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## MediMary (Jun 5, 2011)

Kodank was just banned a couple days ago and his rep bar is gone... 
I just got off a ban yesterday.. well send doc my best.


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## Kingrow1 (Jun 5, 2011)

MediMary said:


> I thought you and doc had a falling out fabfun, I saw that whole thread over at riddles site where you asked to have your account deleted and everyone was calling you out.... Kodank was just banned a couple days ago and his rep bar is gone...
> this whole thing seems fishy... Im going to go reread those posts and see whats up.


Yer great site but lots of arguaments and disagreements, weed smokers are the worst for this!lol!


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## MediMary (Jun 5, 2011)

I went back and reread that thread, it seems from the wording that doc and fabfun are still cool....
I have no idea the circumstances around everything I just saw a lot of people talking bad about fabfun- I shouldn't have even commented..
thats interesting about the ban thing.. when was doc banned?


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## fabfun (Jun 5, 2011)

MediMary said:


> I went back and reread that thread, it seems from the wording that doc and fabfun are still cool....
> I have no idea the circumstances around everything I just saw a lot of people talking bad about fabfun- I shouldn't have even commented..
> thats interesting about the ban thing.. when was doc banned?


dont believe all others say 
always seek the truth or disregard all
as for doc he wasnt arguing so he is not sure why 
but it was about a week ago 
but he is still around lurking in the shadows with me 
and im sure he will see the ? asked about water advice

if anyone cares to ask me more they can pm me and i will answer ?
or relay to doc 

and this is first thread i have posted on recently but didnt want people to think doc was ignore anyone asking for advice cuz i know he wouldnt


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## MediMary (Jun 5, 2011)

yeah, I got no problem with you.... your online persona always seemed cool.lol

I just thought at first you and doc had the falling out so I wondered what the fuck, but I just need to learn to read better.


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## Kingrow1 (Jun 5, 2011)

Yer fabfun you are ok by my standards but a real d!ck if you don't help me with my question! Nah only joking, who am i to judge lets just grow some sh!t, i mean talk about water!lol


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## fabfun (Jun 5, 2011)

i know you didnt bro
as for me and doc
hell no we are brothers 
and have never had a falling out and he supports me as i do him
there are some good people in this crazy online world 
and i have some friends that will always be willing to help
doc111 is one as is bricktop and a few others but i wont mention their names
but they know who they r cuz we r in the shadows together



MediMary said:


> yeah, I got no problem with you.... your online persona always seemed cool.lol
> 
> I just thought at first you and doc had the falling out so I wondered what the fuck, but I just need to learn to read better.


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## fabfun (Jun 5, 2011)

haha i am a dick but i am trying to get the man u asked the one who did this thread to answer it for u which he will i promise u
but while we talking growing why dont u tease us throw up some pics to bait doc he cant resist that shit lol




Kingrow1 said:


> Yer fabfun you are ok by my standards but a real d!ck if you don't help me with my question! Nah only joking, who am i to judge lets just grow some sh!t, i mean talk about water!lol


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## Kingrow1 (Jun 5, 2011)

You wana see me naked! Didn't know you were like that!lol! 

Nah only joking again, i did some pics a week ago or so and will post the link here. I get problems just like the rest but i ain't no novice. I'm only running on 325 watts on enviro light and not those small p!ssy things. Normall 450watts but got heat issues at the mo. I keep it small scale and low key cause the law here is just as strict as the mods on here (please don't ban me for that!lol!) I got every aspect covered and recently had cal/mag probs and probably pH which led me to this thread! Give me a month to work through these problems and get a bigger fan and i'll post pics again then, as for now heres a link to my garden -


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## fabfun (Jun 5, 2011)

Kingrow1 said:


> You wana see me naked! Didn't know you were like that!lol!
> 
> Nah only joking again, i did some pics a week ago or so and will post the link here. I get problems just like the rest but i ain't no novice. I'm only running on 325 watts on enviro light and not those small p!ssy things. Normall 450watts but got heat issues at the mo. I keep it small scale and low key cause the law here is just as strict as the mods on here (please don't ban me for that!lol!) I got every aspect covered and recently had cal/mag probs and probably pH which led me to this thread! Give me a month to work through these problems and get a bigger fan and i'll post pics again then, as for now heres a link to my garden -



post them here bro and if u need some advice i will get it for u 
trust me doc dont mind at all


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## Kingrow1 (Jun 5, 2011)

I can't deleted them off a my camera as you do and only got the thread above to show, were about week or so ago i think, click the link its just a riu thread and my pics are at the top! Have a look dude as i can't post pics to this thread.

This thread is the help i need, i got pH and wtaer ec covered as of my trident meter today and thats will cover the cal/mag as well. I use bio bizz grow and bloom, occassional maxicrop seaweed and westlands seedling and flowering compost. Use tap water which is low ppm and ph7 and above, welsh water is one of the finest in the world. Plants are good except need my big 250watt envirolite in there to double the yeild more or less. I would use hps but not practical and i love the small scale and flourescents, especially the t8's and t5's, would marry one if i could! I hate small cfl's though 18w cfl dont grow sh!t but thats my opinion, people will still use them. Hope you like my grow.


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## fabfun (Jun 5, 2011)

did u mix the lime in soil or add to it 



Kingrow1 said:


> I can't deleted them off a my camera as you do and only got the thread above to show, were about week or so ago i think, click the link its just a riu thread and my pics are at the top! Have a look dude as i can't post pics to this thread.
> 
> This thread is the help i need, i got pH and wtaer ec covered as of my trident meter today and thats will cover the cal/mag as well. I use bio bizz grow and bloom, occassional maxicrop seaweed and westlands seedling and flowering compost. Use tap water which is low ppm and ph7 and above, welsh water is one of the finest in the world. Plants are good except need my big 250watt envirolite in there to double the yeild more or less. I would use hps but not practical and i love the small scale and flourescents, especially the t8's and t5's, would marry one if i could! I hate small cfl's though 18w cfl dont grow sh!t but thats my opinion, people will still use them. Hope you like my grow.


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## fabfun (Jun 5, 2011)

hey t-8s and t-5s even cfls well give great results i see so many say u cant do shit without a hps well that thought goes out the window it is not so much about lighting but in the actual grower

a person with the passion to grow can amke it work with a pic of chuck norris and a lite bright




Kingrow1 said:


> I can't deleted them off a my camera as you do and only got the thread above to show, were about week or so ago i think, click the link its just a riu thread and my pics are at the top! Have a look dude as i can't post pics to this thread.
> 
> This thread is the help i need, i got pH and wtaer ec covered as of my trident meter today and thats will cover the cal/mag as well. I use bio bizz grow and bloom, occassional maxicrop seaweed and westlands seedling and flowering compost. Use tap water which is low ppm and ph7 and above, welsh water is one of the finest in the world. Plants are good except need my big 250watt envirolite in there to double the yeild more or less. I would use hps but not practical and i love the small scale and flourescents, especially the t8's and t5's, would marry one if i could! I hate small cfl's though 18w cfl dont grow sh!t but thats my opinion, people will still use them. Hope you like my grow.


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## Kingrow1 (Jun 6, 2011)

fabfun said:


> did u mix the lime in soil or add to it


With the lime i bought some fine grade garden lime or dolomite, first i pestle and mortared it to get it finer grade and mainly a fine powder. I added it to water and the top layer of soil and watered in also with a small pinch of epsom salts. Purple stalks and stems started to dissapear in 48 hours so knew that was the root of my problem. Now i mix with the soil before repotting, about a level teaspoon per 2 litres of soil less for seedlings.

Just got my trident meter and when i calibarated it it read pH7 solution as pH6.8, should i be worried? Also it reads ppm in 100's so 1820 ppm is coming out at like 1.9. Hmm not as accurate as i thought but still i suppose good enough for plants. Wish i had gone with the hanna meter now as i'm sure it would be more accurate. 

Ok so my water is like pH8 and the ppm is definatly under 100ppm as it reads 0ppm. Good drinking water but not so great for marijuana. Here might be my pH problems and why i have to add so much cal.mag?

I read a lot on aquatic plants and the balance of cal/mag seems to need to be the same, i.e. 200ppm of cal needs roughly 150 to 200 ppm of mag. Raise the cal more to 400ppm and you will get mag problems even though the plant is getting 150ppm of cal still, because garden lime is mainly cal with a little mag i have been under the assumption to add a little mag to the waterings to make up for the low amount of mag in the garden lime. 

God damn growing MJ is getting far too technical, i miss not knowing this sh!t but suppose i get far less problems now. Sorry for long posts. Peace


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## THC888 (Jun 8, 2011)




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## happy Northerner (Jun 11, 2011)

very informative thread, just got me a little confussed, 

im about to do my first grow, and and trying to do it right the first time, 

i have no idea whats what with my water, 

so if i were to send a sample off to here http://www.acornwater.com/showprod.php?id=48

and then come back with the results would you be able top give me some advice , i would be very grateful .
i like in the, north east of ''England'' so have no idea if i have hard or soft,

i dont get any scale/lime build up in m,y kettle it gets used alot , so that might mean i have very soft water ? which is bad , so really after a testing kit, and the link above is the only 1 i can find .

kind regard's


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## PeacefulKid1992 (Jun 18, 2011)

THC888 said:


>


 Why should we? Can you answer that?


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## fabfun (Jun 18, 2011)

PeacefulKid1992 said:


> Why should we? Can you answer that?


why not? sounds like i good ideal to me


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## kmksrh21 (Jun 18, 2011)

Probably nothing is wrong with tap water at ph 6.3... Where I live the tap water is 7.4 ph... not good... So I strictly use ph 6.5 distilled store bought water. Great thread BTW... Just sayin'


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## kmksrh21 (Jun 19, 2011)

I liked what you had to say about this thread being a sticky... it's deserving, as far as the beef between you and DOGG I don't know what sparked that, but I blaze a big  for all y'all.


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## fabfun (Jun 19, 2011)

kmksrh21 said:


> I liked what you had to say about this thread being a sticky... it's deserving, as far as the beef between you and DOGG I don't know what sparked that, but I blaze a big  for all y'all


never met him so i think it a member doc had problems with and guy got banned and has trolled him and me since with fake profiles 
only reason i can think for a newbie to be so rude 

so i guess he asked where's the beef


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## kmksrh21 (Jun 19, 2011)

That's what I was thinking... everytime I see a new member with minimal posts being rude and abnoxious right off the bat, I just assume it's someone who has been banned in the past and can offer nothing positive towards the main reasons I joined and actively follow this site. To grow some bomb ass ganja!! Which is my priority anywayz


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## fabfun (Jun 27, 2011)

kmksrh21 said:


> That's what I was thinking... everytime I see a new member with minimal posts being rude and abnoxious right off the bat, I just assume it's someone who has been banned in the past and can offer nothing positive towards the main reasons I joined and actively follow this site. To grow some bomb ass ganja!! Which is my priority anywayz


well since doc aint here to deal with the haters i guess i will take his place
so bring it


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## kmksrh21 (Jun 27, 2011)

Give em hell!!


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## fabfun (Jun 27, 2011)

kmksrh21 said:


> Give em hell!!



i will do my best hope it isnt needed 
but if so oh well


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## fabfun (Jun 27, 2011)

kmksrh21 said:


> Give em hell!!


so many petty people have tried to get this thread closed cuz they hating on doc 
shit dont be jealous and if haters got no one to hate on feel free to hate on me i can take it im a big boy


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## lime73 (Jun 28, 2011)

"WHAT'S UP DOC!" 

how's everything bro?


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## fabfun (Jun 28, 2011)

lime73 said:


> "WHAT'S UP DOC!"
> 
> how's everything bro?



doc isnt here so i am filling in for him 
whats up bro
just slapping down the haters


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## Kingrow1 (Jun 28, 2011)

When is doc back? If ever?


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## luckybleu (Jul 3, 2011)

i take all my water from a 30 gal fish tank ,i keep ph at around 6.5 plants love it


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## [email protected] (Jul 4, 2011)

waters A particular stretch of sea or ocean, especially that of a state or country: _escorted out of British waters._

A clear, colorless, odorless, and tasteless liquid, H2O, essential for most plant and animal life and the most widely used of all solvents. Freezing point 0°C (32°F); boiling point 100°C (212°F); specific gravity (4°C) 1.0000; weight per gallon (15°C) 8.338 pounds (3.782 kilograms).
Naturally occurring mineral water, as at a spa. Often used in the plural.
he valuation of the assets of a business firm beyond their real value.
To reduce the strength or effectiveness of: _"It seemed clear by late autumn that the ban would be significantly watered down or removed altogether before the trade bill became law"_ (George R. Packard).
water under the bridge

 A past occurrence, especially something unfortunate, that cannot be undone or rectified: _All that is now just water under the bridge._


​
​
​​
​
​


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## dannyboy602 (Jul 17, 2011)

What has amazed me from the time I started studying plant biology is how a plant can move massive amounts of water in some cases, against gravity, through xylem cells, in an unbroken column of water from the root tips to the very top of the canopy. 
It is a kind of miracle. If water molecules did not have the ability to stick together, oh how different the world would be.


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## Kingrow1 (Jul 17, 2011)

You can put a sealed bag on a tree branch for 24hours and the bag will have a lot of water in it the next day, good trick for the desert or when no water is around and the water is pure too, plants are amazing.


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## omri (Jul 25, 2011)

what should the water temprature be for the resivoir for an indoor grow 70 72 75 does anybody know


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## Kingrow1 (Aug 1, 2011)

THIS THREAD SEEMS DEAD!!!!!!!!

Where the hell is doc111?????

Come back and finish what you started dude, i get involved in water, you give me a small science lesson then when i have questions you have dissapeared!!!!

Very rude dude and seems like only you had a comprehensive knowledge of water unlike the rest of this site who seem to just verge on a small basic understanding of water.

Seriously dude my questions are stacking up and google just dont have the answers i need, freaking read tons of sites and scientific papers and still i have not found some answers to my questions!!!

Someone call doc111 and ask him to get his ass back on this thread or close the thread for good, just a blag hoping that some one has answers to questions here. Even if you answered my questions i could keep this thread going with the knowledge i know about water but i have yet to slot the final peices into place!!!!

Bicarbonates are troubling me and i fail to see the inportance of why they are normally directly correlated to cal/mag and if pH'ing water takes these out of the equation with regards to soil alkalinity and even if there are safe levels of bicarbonates that we shouldn't exceed for water we give our plants.

I need a discussion not your wimpy little exscuses for leaving this thread open ended. I have little respect for someone who leaves me hanging after taking so much time and effort to disect the intracacies of the most essential compound water.

You taught me so much but yet not enough, sort your sh!t out and grow up, need help here not fresh air which is what i'm getting plenty of waiting for your sorry ass. Seriously annoyed that resources on this site manage to dwindle away, some of us never take anything for granted like you have with this thread.

Fabfun, sorry i know you tried but Doc111 is seriously hacked me off!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrr


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## 420Marine (Aug 1, 2011)

RIU has been dead man lately all the old gurus seem to have pulled up shop either do to "rats" or just politics in other forums...kinda silly yes but it's true. I wish I had the answers for you but hopefully someone can help you out.


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## Kingrow1 (Aug 1, 2011)

420Marine said:


> RIU has been dead man lately all the old gurus seem to have pulled up shop either do to "rats" or just politics in other forums...kinda silly yes but it's true. I wish I had the answers for you but hopefully someone can help you out.


If someone knows which site and username doc111 is using please post it here, he truly was a water GURU and the nicest kind, still had so much to learn from him, doc111 i will track you down somehow. Peace


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## n0va59 (Aug 5, 2011)

wow is all I can say !!! I have been just using tap water left sitting out for a few days...guess I have a lot to learn...although my plants don't seem to be bothered by it...Ocassionally I use my goldfish water...


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## edsweed (Aug 12, 2011)

*ive tried rain water and tap water during a session and found that the rain water wasnt that great.. tap water did better in producing a better , healthier plant. nutes also kept the same for both.*


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## Kingrow1 (Aug 12, 2011)

edsweed said:


> *ive tried rain water and tap water during a session and found that the rain water wasnt that great.. tap water did better in producing a better , healthier plant. nutes also kept the same for both.*


thats because rainwater dosent have much of anything in it and tap water more than likely contains all the goodies like calcium and magnesium with a few other choice ingredients. Peace


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## Kingrow1 (Aug 12, 2011)

ellunitiko said:


> You all are fucking ignorant. Youre supposed to use rubbing alcohol not water. Fucking die all of you


Rubbing Alcohol contains 97.5-100% by volume of pure, concentrated ethanol (ethyl alcohol) or isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol).

Peacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubbing_alcohol#cite_note-0


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## inmoralast (Aug 14, 2011)

I have a quick question. If roots are looking for water lower in the ground when we water them from above ground then why not develop methods of watering under the roots??? 
Kinda like the earthbox but on a bigger scale to be able to grow a very robust monster 10 foot plant


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## Kingrow1 (Aug 14, 2011)

inmoralast said:


> I have a quick question. If roots are looking for water lower in the ground when we water them from above ground then why not develop methods of watering under the roots???
> Kinda like the earthbox but on a bigger scale to be able to grow a very robust monster 10 foot plant


Roots will travel sideways if you leave the container shallow, could have a mega long container although i feel it would be hard to water.

An earth box in principle isnt hard to build, people build bigger ones, there are ways. I believe ten foot isnt that big either for a monster plant, can go much bigger if you want. Peace


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## doc.111 (Aug 23, 2011)

hm417308919kathy said:


> Nicely done,thank you .


You're welcome, and I'm back!!!!!!!


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## Kingrow1 (Aug 23, 2011)

Hey the Doc's back!


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## 25 years away (Aug 26, 2011)

Is my water usable as it comes out of the tap? Ph 7.03/ TDS 380ppm. It is crystal clear, tastes great, has no smell or color to it! Will be running a drain to waste system using coco as my medium, and Humboldt nutes. 3- 400w MH for veg. & 4- 1000w HPS for flowering. Room A/C at 72F w/ RH at 45%
TIA


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## doc.111 (Aug 30, 2011)

25 years away said:


> Is my water usable as it comes out of the tap? Ph 7.03/ TDS 380ppm. It is crystal clear, tastes great, has no smell or color to it! Will be running a drain to waste system using coco as my medium, and Humboldt nutes. 3- 400w MH for veg. & 4- 1000w HPS for flowering. Room A/C at 72F w/ RH at 45%
> TIA


If you're not experiencing any problems and are happy with your results then it must be usable.

Hard water usually tastes pretty good. These fancy bottled waters like Dasani and Smart Water are nothing more than distilled or reverse osmosis filtered tap water with Ca and Mg added back in for taste. You won't always be able to tell simply by taste alone whether or not water is suitable for growing. My tapwater is extremely hard yet it tastes pretty good. Best of luck my friend.


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## bestballer (Aug 31, 2011)

thnx for the info


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## Crazy Tweeds1971 (Aug 31, 2011)

So britta dosent actually take out minerals that you would want to keep ?Ive heard so many diff things. Theres no obvious problems with my water seeing how I can keep a plant to be green and healthy its whole life but threw the years Ive done the britta thing(got sick of buying filters) the let water sit on the counter for 36hrs then water thing(getting sick of cummin up short when watering need to wait 36hrs before you can resume watering) and ofcorse plain water from the faucet PHed and immediatly watered( witch is what id like to go back to doing because of its simplicity) Now is there any reason why or why not use it straight from the faucet?? If theres really a good reason to use britta I could go back to that as well. I always wondered what the better way is.


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## doc.111 (Sep 1, 2011)

Crazy Tweeds1971 said:


> So britta dosent actually take out minerals that you would want to keep ?Ive heard so many diff things. Theres no obvious problems with my water seeing how I can keep a plant to be green and healthy its whole life but threw the years Ive done the britta thing(got sick of buying filters) the let water sit on the counter for 36hrs then water thing(getting sick of cummin up short when watering need to wait 36hrs before you can resume watering) and ofcorse plain water from the faucet PHed and immediatly watered( witch is what id like to go back to doing because of its simplicity) Now is there any reason why or why not use it straight from the faucet?? If theres really a good reason to use britta I could go back to that as well. I always wondered what the better way is.


Brittas are good at reducing the amount of Chlorine and they also reduce a little bit of Chloramine as well. They will also reduce some harmful things like lead and other heavy metals. They do NOT do anything to reduce Calcium or Magnesium (hardness). There are MANY growers who simply draw their water straight from the tap and water straight away without any waiting or aerating. The only way to know if your water is acceptable for doing this is to try it. Fact is most tapwater is fine for growing straight out of the tap. Many organic growers are concerned with Chlorine and Chloramine killing off beneficials, but this is a controversial topic and there is little to no evidence to support the fact that Chlorine and Chloramine have a significant effect on micro critters. It's true enough that these chemicals are in fact disinfectants but they are used in such miniscule quantities (generally) that they probably won't have any appreciable difference on most peoples' grow. Good luck my friend.


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## Medi 1 (Sep 1, 2011)

brita is a home drinking filter not a gardenijng quality. and like he said if 6yoiu dont grow organic and 99% dont even if they think they do. then filters dont bennefit or matter. most foods even if they say organci arent. they are organic based. and yes if then you do need filtered water and reg over the counter carbon ones dont do it. if its chloramine.

why is is a controveral topic on microbes get killed by chormines.. they do. all of us nute makers use filtered water. if you dont it wont work as the co makes it to work. if you dont filter water there is crap in it from tapos that effects how the food works. then you call the co or spam the net saying the food sux.....lol.
people will spend 400 on crap fem seed and get hermies all day long but nobody seems to pay attention to waster and filters for a couple hundred that last a long time. just for 1 the cal source isnt good for growing and will block other we add in a bottle. how much it effects will depend on each water source


buddy above with brita..it wasnt doing anything for you anyways as they use cheep carbon and wont deal with the chloramiens anyways. if orgqanci will depend on level of organics in the food and type and what amount of chloramine was in tap water. may not kill them all and it may. but ive seen many grows done well without filters and done for many years on my own.


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## Kingrow1 (Sep 1, 2011)

I think a Brita filter is composed of some material with a super large surface area, it either filters or bonds certain elements to it like lead, aluminium etc etc. I believe there was some dispute since some used some kind of silver in them. After looking at them i didnt even want to drink water from them ever again. Peace


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## doc111 (Sep 2, 2011)

Kingrow1 said:


> I think a Brita filter is composed of some material with a super large surface area, it either filters or bonds certain elements to it like lead, aluminium etc etc. I believe there was some dispute since some used some kind of silver in them. After looking at them i didnt even want to drink water from them ever again. Peace


I think Brittas are basically activated carbon/sediment filters. They don't really do much for us growers but if it makes a grower feel better about their smoke............


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## Kingrow1 (Sep 2, 2011)

doc111 said:


> I think Brittas are basically activated carbon/sediment filters. They don't really do much for us growers but if it makes a grower feel better about their smoke............


I'll agree with you there, they dont do much.


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## doc111 (Sep 2, 2011)

Kingrow1 said:


> I'll agree with you there, they dont do much.


Did ya notice I got my old account back?


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## Kingrow1 (Sep 3, 2011)

No i didnt but about time dude. Thats good news.

You got your account back,Peace


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## Crazy Tweeds1971 (Sep 3, 2011)

excellent thanx for the info!


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## Kingrow1 (Sep 4, 2011)

What else can water hold for plants? I have read that iron in water is unabsorbable by plant roots? Dose water supply any other nutes in great quantities such as sulphur or are the quantities generally to low for plant use or just plain unabsorbable?? Peace


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## BC KushMaster (Sep 5, 2011)

Water, the fluid of life, makes up more than 80 percent of the weight of the living plant. Within the cells, life processes take place in a water solution. Water also dissolves nutrients in the soil, and this solution is absorbed by the roots. About 99 percent of the water absorbed passes from the roots into the conduits (xylem) of the stem, where it is distributed to the leaves via the xylem of the leaf veins. Transpiration is the evaporation of water from the leaves. The flow of water from the soil, through the plant to the air, is called the transpiration stream. Les then one percent of the water absorbed is broken down to provide electrons (usually in the form of hydrogen) which, along with carbon dioxide, are used to form carbohydrates during photosynthesis. The rest of the water is transpired to the air.

Watering

Water provides hydrogen for plant growth, and also carries nutrients throughout the plant in the transpiration stream. However, it is not true that the more water given a plant, the faster it will grow. Certainly, if a plant is consistently under-watered, its growth rate slows. However, lack of water does not limit photosynthesis until the soil in the pot is dry and the plant is wilting.

The amount of water, and how often to water, varies with the size of the plants and pots, soil composition, and the temperature, humidity, and circulation of the air, to name a few variables. But watering is pretty much a matter of common sense.

During germination, keep the soil surface moist. But once the seedling are established, let the top layer of soil dry out before watering again. This will eliminate any chance of stem rot. Water around the stems rather than on them. Seedlings are likely to fall over if watered roughly; use a hand sprinkler.

In general, when the soil about two inches deep feels dry, water so that the soil is evenly moist but not so much that water runs out the drainage holes and carries away the soil's nutrients. After a few trials, you will know approximately how much water the pots can hold. Marijuana cannot tolerate a soggy or saturated soil. Plants grown in constantly wet soil are slower-growing, usually less potent, and prone to attack from stem rot.

Over-watering as a common problem; it develops from consistently watering too often. When the plants are small, they transpire much less water. Seedlings in large pots need to be watered much less often than when the plants are large or are in small pots. A large pot that was saturated during germination may hold enough water for the first three weeks of growth. On the other hand, a six-foot plant in a six-inch pot may have to be watered every day. Always water enough to moisten all the soil. Don't just wet the surface layer.

Under-watering is less of a problem, since it is easily recognised. When the soil becomes too dry, the plant wilts. Plant cells are kept rigid by the pressure of their cell contents, which are mostly water. With the water gone, they collapse. First the bottom leaves droop, and the condition quickly works its way up the plant until the top lops over. If this happens, water immediately. Recovery is so fast, you can follow the movement of water up the stem as it fills and brings turgor to the leaves. A plant may survive a wilted condition of several days, but at the very least some leaves will drop.

Don't keep the pots constantly wet, and don't wait until the plant wilts. Let the soil go through a wet and dry cycle, which will aerate the soil and aid nutrient uptake. Most growers find that they need to water about once or twice a week.

When some soils get particularly dry, the water is not absorbed and runs down the sides and out the bottom of the pot. This may be a problem the first time you water the soil, or if you allow the soil to get very dry. To remedy, add a couple of drops of liquid detergent to a gallon of water. Detergent acts as a wetting agent and the water is absorbed more readily. First water each pot with about one cup of the solution. Allow the pots to stand for 15 minutes, then finish watering with the usual amount of pure water.

Use tepid water; it soaks into the soil more easily and will not shock the roots. Try to water during the plant's morning hours. Water from the top of the pot. If you do want to water from the bottom with trays (not recommended), place a layer of pebbles or gravel in the trays to insure drainage. Don't leaves the pots sitting in water until the pot is heavily saturated. The water displaces the soil's oxygen, and the plants grow poorly.

Tap water in some areas highly chlorinated, which does not seem to harm Cannabis; and many fine crops are raised with water straight from the tap. But chlorine could possibly affect the plants indirectly, by killing some beneficial micro-organisms in the soil. Chlorine also makes the water slightly acidic. However, neither effect is likely to be serious. Some growers have asked whether they should use pet-shop preparations that are sold to remove chlorine from water in fish tanks. These preparations generally add sodium, which removes the chlorine by forming sodium chloride (table salt). This solution does not harm the plants, although repeated use may make the soil too saline. Probably the best procedure is to simply allow the water to sit in an open container for a few days. The chlorine is introduced to water as the gas Cl2, which dissipates to the air. The water temperature also reaches a comfortable level for the plants.

Hard (alkaline) water contains a number of minerals (e.g., Ca++, Mg++, K+) which are essentially nutrients to the plants. Water softeners remove these minerals by replacing them with sodium, which forms slightly salty water. It is much better to water with hard water, because artificially softened water may prove harmful after some time. Occasionally, water may be acidic (sulphurous). Counteract this by mixing one teaspoon of hydrated lime per quart water and watering with the solution once a month.

Water and Potency

We've seen no studies that have evaluated potency in relation to water. A few studies have mentioned the fact that plants that received less water were slightly more potent. Water stress has been practiced by several marijuana-growing cultures. In parts of India, watering is kept to a minimum during flowering.

To limit watering, water with the usual amounts but as infrequently as possible. To encourage good growth, yet keep watering to a minimum, wait until the plants are a few months old before you curtail watering. Give the plants their normal water and note the number of days before they begin to wilt. As the plants get larger, the water needs increase, but this generally stabilises by the time of flowering


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## GunRunner (Sep 19, 2011)

This is the most informative article on water ever!!! Made me even consider building a a distiller for my next grow, planing to use only home-distilled water 

Good job! and +Rep (Soon as I figure out how)


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## Kingrow1 (Sep 20, 2011)

ztlights said:


> How to install *T8 LED Tubes*
> We know that fluorescent tube has its own ballast which can either be of the inductive or electronic type which is used to drive the tube itself. In a standard energy saving light bulb of the CFL type this is actually contained within the bulb itself but with traditional fluorescent tubes this is normally separate and located inside the light fitting.
> Conversely with our T8 LED Tubes the driver is actually part of the* LED tube* itself so the LED tube is a totally integrated stand alone unit which can simply be wired up to the mains. This means that if you are fitting an LED tube to a conventional fitting then you need to make a few simple modifications to the wiring.
> How to fit an* LED tube light* to a conventional fluorescent tube fitting?There are 7 steps replace fluorescent tube for LED tube.
> ...


Get your LED ass outa here pal! Peace


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## Kingrow1 (Sep 20, 2011)

ztlights said:


> How to install *T8 LED Tubes*
> We know that fluorescent tube has its own ballast which can either be of the inductive or electronic type which is used to drive the tube itself. In a standard energy saving light bulb of the CFL type this is actually contained within the bulb itself but with traditional fluorescent tubes this is normally separate and located inside the light fitting.
> Conversely with our T8 LED Tubes the driver is actually part of the* LED tube* itself so the LED tube is a totally integrated stand alone unit which can simply be wired up to the mains. This means that if you are fitting an LED tube to a conventional fitting then you need to make a few simple modifications to the wiring.
> How to fit an* LED tube light* to a conventional fluorescent tube fitting?There are 7 steps replace fluorescent tube for LED tube.
> ...


Get your LED ass outa here pal! Peace


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## dickkhead (Sep 27, 2011)

whats the best water to put into my aeroponic system? I own a water ionizer fro my drinking water will this help?

thanks!


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## doc111 (Sep 28, 2011)

dickkhead said:


> whats the best water to put into my aeroponic system? I own a water ionizer fro my drinking water will this help?
> 
> thanks!


It all depends on the quality of the water you are using to begin with. Are you using tapwater? Is it city water or well? It's probably a good idea to have your water tested if you have any doubts about it. I don't think your ionizer will do you much good if the water you are putting through it is crap to begin with. With aero and hydro, water quality is a bit more critical since it IS the growing medium.


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## RawBudzski (Sep 28, 2011)

I would purchase your water if you have doubts. 
I personally have never had issues with Tap if I allow it to sit for 24+ hours. I used to Buy all my water, then I realized how tough the plant actually is.


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## dickkhead (Sep 28, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I would purchase your water if you have doubts.
> I personally have never had issues with Tap if I allow it to sit for 24+ hours. I used to Buy all my water, then I realized how tough the plant actually is.


 No issues with my water I live in northeast it's town water not well. Want the best results that's all! Maybe I'll veg with tap and last few weeks of flowering se Poland spring while I'm flushing?


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## kingmarteen (Oct 9, 2011)

Water is most important for human life. Seventy percent part of human body that made by water which make it healthy and well fitted. It make well to cells and bones of body.


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## Kingrow1 (Oct 10, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I would purchase your water if you have doubts.
> I personally have never had issues with Tap if I allow it to sit for 24+ hours. I used to Buy all my water, then I realized how tough the plant actually is.


I found out my tap water is a little soft so add cal/mag most times and never had a problem again, is funny how people automatically think their plants dont like tapwater when in reallity most tap water is fine or just needs some small adjustment. Wish they would just check with the water suppliers first!lol!

I see no difference in plant growth or health between leaving the water to sit for 24hours and straight out of the tap. I only let my tap water sit during the winter to bring it up to room temperature but it dosent make my plants any better, levels of chlorine in my water are within defined limits and so miniscule that they change nothing. Peace


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## Plant Guru (Oct 10, 2011)

Having been a state certified water quality treatment operator for years in California and now a horticulturist, I can add that the presentation here was straight to the point, accurate and well done. The quality of water is too often ignored in both plants and people. Getting plants to uptake nutrients properly in poor quality water is a real issue. Because RO water, which I like to use with indoor plants has the micro nutrients (as well as macro) removed, it is important to use plant nutrients that focus on restoring the needed micro nutrients. All plant nutrient contain and advertize their content of macro (NPK)... keep an eye out for those trace nutrients like iron, magnesium, boron, calcium, zinc. these micro nutrients and others are vital.


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## rollandtoke (Nov 8, 2011)

thanks for all the great info guys! another great thread to learn even more about the steps


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## lime73 (Nov 9, 2011)

Whatz up doc!!! 

Nice to see you are still helping out man


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## Chong9 (Nov 29, 2011)

Hi and thanks for this great thread

I was hoping for a little direction based on your info. I am using dwc and likely to use advanced nutrients sensi as my basic nute but i dont know about how best to prep the water other than ph adjust and bubble for a little extra chlorine kick. Im unsure if i should soften the water somehow or treat it for anything else. Any help would be much appreciated, Thanks
This is the info i have on my tap water-

Hardness Level - Hard 
Hardness Clark - 15 
Hardness French -22 
Hardness German -12 
Aluminium - 5.88 &#956;gAl/l 
Chlorine -0.22 mg/l 
Coliform bacteria -0 
Colour - 0.58 mg/l Pt/Co 
Conductivity - 498.11 &#956;S/cm at 20°C  
E.coli bacteria - 0 
Fluoride - 0.04 mgF/l 
Iron - 10.25 &#956;gFe/l 
Manganese - 3.95 &#956;gMn/l 
Nitrate- 38.08 mgNO3/l 
Odour - 0 
Pesticides- 0 &#956;g/l 
pH - 7.47 
Sodium - 17.88 mgNa/l 
*Plumbing Metals* 
Copper -0.068 mgCu/l 
Lead -1.03 &#956;gPb/l 
Nickel - 3.56&#956;gNi/l


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## Remidianz (Dec 1, 2011)

10characters


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## doc111 (Dec 2, 2011)

Chong9 said:


> Hi and thanks for this great thread
> 
> I was hoping for a little direction based on your info. I am using dwc and likely to use advanced nutrients sensi as my basic nute but i dont know about how best to prep the water other than ph adjust and bubble for a little extra chlorine kick. Im unsure if i should soften the water somehow or treat it for anything else. Any help would be much appreciated, Thanks
> This is the info i have on my tap water-
> ...


That's pretty hard but not terrible. You should be alright with it but keep an eye out for problems. If you run into any, you may want to soften your water up a bit with some R/O or distilled. Happy growing my friend!


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## BlazedMonkey (Dec 5, 2011)

Hey wanted to get an opinion. 

My water looks like this 

PH 7.7
Chloride 144
Alkalinity 136
Hardness 168
Calcium 40
Magnesium 16
Sodium 97
Potassium 5
Silica 10
Total Dissolved Solids: 474


Now 474 to my understanding is pretty high/hard. I saw some problems last grow and i suspect it could be because of Salt buildup. I used FFOF soil last grow. 

I would love to go Hydro or similar however ive heard that its even more crucial to have good water. 

What is the best/cheapest way for me to grow? Would i be better off running DWC and buying gallon jugs of distilled? Hempy and use my tap water and hope that the constant flushing will keep the salt levels below toxic? Should i pony up and buy a RO? (id really prefer not to buy an RO at this point)

What do you guys think?


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## escotofly (Dec 6, 2011)

Water is most important element for human and all. The seventy percents part of human body is build on water. It provide well stamina to human health and make it great.


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## dickkhead (Dec 6, 2011)

Draw your water 48 hours before testing it, and have an air stone in it. Then have it tested and I gaurantee that chlorine will discipitate an be fine to use for DWC or watering your plants


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## mr. green thumb 01 (Dec 7, 2011)

can someone please tell me if its better to use a DI with your RO or no DI. I think I read if its for drinking its better no DI but what about for plants. I tried to shoot doc a pm but im so impatient..


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## trichomedome (Dec 7, 2011)

Comprehensive covering, very interesting read top notch doc 111


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## mr. green thumb 01 (Dec 8, 2011)

Cool, he answered me! And just to let everyone know thats searching about RO reverse osmosis with or without a DI deionizer. ( I couldn't find a answer on my search) His professional opinion is that the DI is unnecessary and just the RO is fine.


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## doc111 (Dec 8, 2011)

BlazedMonkey said:


> Hey wanted to get an opinion.
> 
> My water looks like this
> 
> ...


That water is pretty hard but not impossible to work with. You could try a hardwater formula (GH makes Hardwater Micro for their 3 part line). Constant flushing SHOULD help. Your Ca and Mg numbers aren't what concerns me though. Your Sodium number seems a bit high to me. Believe it or not, plants actually need a miniscule amount of Na. Unfortunately, it builds up quickly and locks out other nutrients. Have you checked to see if a nearby grocery store has self serve water filter machines? Those use R/O filtration and the water is pretty cheap (usually around $.25/gallon). You can mix it with your tap to bring your TDS down, at least until you determine what is causing your problems and what the best course of action would be. 



dickkhead said:


> Draw your water 48 hours before testing it, and have an air stone in it. Then have it tested and I gaurantee that chlorine will discipitate an be fine to use for DWC or watering your plants


The small amount of Chlorine in tapwater isn't usually a problem for growers in any medium. Some organic growers claim it kills off beneficials. Plants, like all living things, require a small amount of Chlorine for normal growth, so a little bit is actually beneficial.


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## BlazedMonkey (Dec 8, 2011)

doc111 said:


> Your Sodium number seems a bit high to me. Believe it or not, plants actually need a miniscule amount of Na. Unfortunately, it builds up quickly and locks out other nutrients. Have you checked to see if a nearby grocery store has self serve water filter machines? Those use R/O filtration and the water is pretty cheap (usually around $.25/gallon).


Yah i figured it was the sodium. Last grow my pots didnt drain very well. Pretty sure theres an RO machine at the store so i might go up there and grab some if i need it or if i decide to go closed system hydro.


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## doc111 (Jan 5, 2012)

mactheknife said:


> weed growing 101 beginers free step-by-step guied to grow weed>>>>>http://generalreview.yolasite.com/ check out you mite find it helps !!!!​


Please don't spam stickies.


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## plainjanename (Jan 7, 2012)

To the "Water Guru" :

I have been experiencing yellow leaf tips at about week 3 on only new growth which I feel may be due to using hard water for the first 3 weeks, building up minerals and causing "lockout" of some nutrient. I have recently switched to store bought RO water. I have a thread and wondered what your opinion was. Thank you. Here is my thread https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/501103-yellowing-tips-new-growth-mag.html


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## mackdown (Jan 9, 2012)

So what is the best water to use? Ive been using bottled mineral water I buy at the store. Is this too hard? Should I be using something else?


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## doc111 (Jan 10, 2012)

plainjanename said:


> To the "Water Guru" :
> 
> I have been experiencing yellow leaf tips at about week 3 on only new growth which I feel may be due to using hard water for the first 3 weeks, building up minerals and causing "lockout" of some nutrient. I have recently switched to store bought RO water. I have a thread and wondered what your opinion was. Thank you. Here is my thread https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/501103-yellowing-tips-new-growth-mag.html


My apologies for the slow response. 

I checked your pics and I don't think you are experiencing a Magnesium deficiency. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you. Just keep an eye on it and if it worsens then you may need to act. Your plants look pretty good from what I can see and yellow leaf tips are not typically a problem (so long as it doesn't worsen). Some people claim that yellowing tips is nute burn. I have a couple of strains that get yellow tips no matter what I do, so it could be genetic. All in all, your grow looks pretty good. Happy Growing my friend, and don't hesitate to hit me up if it gets worse.


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## doc111 (Jan 10, 2012)

mackdown said:


> So what is the best water to use? Ive been using bottled mineral water I buy at the store. Is this too hard? Should I be using something else?


lol!

This is one of those questions that has no easy answer. IMO, "the best" water to use is whatever works best FOR YOU. Many people use bottled mineral/spring water with good results. The only way to know if it is too hard (which I highly doubt that it is) would be to use a TDS tester so you can get an idea of the ppm's. What is considered "the best" is always highly subjective. Everybody has their own opinion on what is "the best" nutrient, lights, strains, etc. It is no different for water. Best of luck to you my friend.


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## plainjanename (Jan 13, 2012)

doc111 said:


> My apologies for the slow response.
> 
> I checked your pics and I don't think you are experiencing a Magnesium deficiency. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you. Just keep an eye on it and if it worsens then you may need to act. Your plants look pretty good from what I can see and yellow leaf tips are not typically a problem (so long as it doesn't worsen). Some people claim that yellowing tips is nute burn. I have a couple of strains that get yellow tips no matter what I do, so it could be genetic. All in all, your grow looks pretty good. Happy Growing my friend, and don't hesitate to hit me up if it gets worse.


Hey, no worries, appreciate the response. It seems to be getting a bit worse on only a couple of the plants, but flower production doesn't seem to be slowed down at all. The newer growth seems to be coming out more solid green since the RO switch. I used pure RO for a watering, then mixed tap water with RO for the next watering. Its weird because all plants of the same strain aren't showing it, just a few, and I have treated them all in the same manner. Anyways thank you for your response. One question though if you could: If I mix RO with tap water would I still be required to add CALMAG to the water in your opinion?


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## 48martin (Jan 13, 2012)

Wow.. Great thread! Used RO water from the grocery store machine on the last soil grow and it was great. IMHO
The one drawback was lugging those 3 gallon containers around. Any advice on what to look for in a small home (portable) RO system? Saw a few on Ebay around $100
Thanks and awesome thread!


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## doc111 (Jan 14, 2012)

48martin said:


> Wow.. Great thread! Used RO water from the grocery store machine on the last soil grow and it was great. IMHO
> The one drawback was lugging those 3 gallon containers around. Any advice on what to look for in a small home (portable) RO system? Saw a few on Ebay around $100
> Thanks and awesome thread!


Thank you!

It depends on your needs. There are R/O units that sell for under $100 on ebay. Larger units with multiple membranes (which put out more Gallons Per Day), more efficient units that put out less waste water................it's all about what suits your needs.


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## doc111 (Jan 14, 2012)

plainjanename said:


> Hey, no worries, appreciate the response. It seems to be getting a bit worse on only a couple of the plants, but flower production doesn't seem to be slowed down at all. The newer growth seems to be coming out more solid green since the RO switch. I used pure RO for a watering, then mixed tap water with RO for the next watering. Its weird because all plants of the same strain aren't showing it, just a few, and I have treated them all in the same manner. Anyways thank you for your response. One question though if you could: If I mix RO with tap water would I still be required to add CALMAG to the water in your opinion?


It depends on the amount of Cal and Mag in your tapwater, the needs of your individual plants and the amount of Cal and Mag in your nutrients/grow medium. Many people mix R/O with their tapwater (usually REALLY HARD tapwater) in order to bring the ppm's into a more desirable range. Just experiment with different things and see what works the best.


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## hoffa (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm curious to hear, your take on using structured water?


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## doc111 (Jan 16, 2012)

hoffa said:


> I'm curious to hear, your take on using structured water?


Sorry, I can't comment since I've never used it and know very little about it.


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## hoffa (Jan 17, 2012)

You will find more info here.




https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/133940-structured-water.html


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## hoffa (Jan 17, 2012)

When i water, i always freeze the water, to re-structure it. Thaw the water naturally, then add nuts, or just water at room temp tho.


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## hoffa (Jan 17, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctQ86-cFUmQ


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## TheTruSmokr (Jan 22, 2012)

Sweet post


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## nubbis1020 (Jan 24, 2012)

Hey doc. I am having a water related problem with my plants and was wondering if you would be able to help me out. If I provide the necessary info.


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## doc111 (Jan 25, 2012)

nubbis1020 said:


> Hey doc. I am having a water related problem with my plants and was wondering if you would be able to help me out. If I provide the necessary info.


Feel free to pm me.


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## nubbis1020 (Jan 25, 2012)

lmao nvm..I figured it out.


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## 48martin (Jan 29, 2012)

Does it help when watering your plants in soil to have a water pump/air stone condition the water before feeding. I see a lot of people using that with Teas and wondered if it would help put O2 in water even without additives before feeding your plants. Is there any real benefit or just a waste of money.


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## doc111 (Jan 30, 2012)

48martin said:


> Does it help when watering your plants in soil to have a water pump/air stone condition the water before feeding. I see a lot of people using that with Teas and wondered if it would help put O2 in water even without additives before feeding your plants. Is there any real benefit or just a waste of money.


This is one of those questions with no real good answer. Most growers want to do everything they can to help their plants along. Aerating the water in hydro is a really good idea (if not essential) but for soil it's probably not necessary. That said, aquarium pumps and airstones are mad cheap! I aerate my water before watering my soil plants and have been doing so for nearly 20 years. I've tried it both ways (aerated and un-aerated) and there has been no noticeable difference in health, quality or yield. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's personal preference whether to aerate or not. If you use a well aerated, high quality potting mix you shouldn't NEED to aerate your water, but it never hurts. Hope this helps.


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## 48martin (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks for the quick reply. Thanks again for the great info!




doc111 said:


> This is one of those questions with no real good answer. Most growers want to do everything they can to help their plants along. Aerating the water in hydro is a really good idea (if not essential) but for soil it's probably not necessary. That said, aquarium pumps and airstones are mad cheap! I aerate my water before watering my soil plants and have been doing so for nearly 20 years. I've tried it both ways (aerated and un-aerated) and there has been no noticeable difference in health, quality or yield. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's personal preference whether to aerate or not. If you use a well aerated, high quality potting mix you shouldn't NEED to aerate your water, but it never hurts. Hope this helps.


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## doc111 (Feb 7, 2012)

fashion master said:


> The four main elements needed to live are carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen. In addition to these, we need small amounts of phosphorus, calcium, sodium, potassium, magnesium, chlorine and sulphur. There are also trace elements needed such as iron, cobalt, iodine and selenium.
> 
> The main compounds needed are water, carbohydrates (as energy source), fats (as stored energy in the body), nucleic acids (used to store and copy genetic information, and proteins (huge variety of purposes). There are also more specialised proteins, fats and carbohydrates present in small quantities which have very specific purposes. There is also carbonated hydroxylapatite, which is the calcium compound in bones. There are also specialised organic molecules such as hormones, neurotransmitters and vitamins.


Ummm, thank you for the information, but this thread is about WATER.

Welcome to RIU.


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## tui (Feb 14, 2012)

Hey people, Its a weed been growing for thousands of years you don't need a degree to grow good weed just the fundamentals water food light and common sense


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## tui (Feb 14, 2012)

I have been growing my own on and of for thirty years outside with just a little common sense


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## loophole68 (Feb 14, 2012)

tui said:


> I have been growing my own on and of for thirty years outside with just a little common sense


Haha reminds me of some growers who even used methods that would get them flamed today... only if internet existed those days.
But as technology advances, so does science


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## doc111 (Feb 15, 2012)

tui said:


> I have been growing my own on and of for thirty years outside with just a little common sense


That's great!

Outdoor growing is NOT the same as indoor growing............not even close. This thread is about helping growers understand the water they use. The different types of water, the impurities which can cause growers problems, the filtration and purification methods which growers can employ should their water quality be sub-par, etc. Just because a grower has grown for 30 years without problems doesn't mean others are in the same boat. Some folks simply want to plant a seed, water it, maybe feed it a little and harvest it. Others want to experiment with different techniques and are constantly striving for improvements in yield and quality. We are all different and our situations are different. 

BTW, welcome to RIU.


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## doc111 (Feb 16, 2012)

haven.hatty said:


> * I see a lot of people using that with Teas and wondered if it would help put O2 in water even without additives before feeding your plants. Is there any real benefit or just a waste of money. *


I will refer you to a previous post (post #432).



doc111 said:


> * This is one of those questions with no real good answer. Most growers want to do everything they can to help their plants along. Aerating the water in hydro is a really good idea (if not essential) but for soil it's probably not necessary. That said, aquarium pumps and airstones are mad cheap! I aerate my water before watering my soil plants and have been doing so for nearly 20 years. I've tried it both ways (aerated and un-aerated) and there has been no noticeable difference in health, quality or yield. I guess what I'm htrying to say is it's personal preference whether to aerate or not. If you use a well aerated, high quality potting mix you shouldn't NEED to aerate your water, but it never hurts*. *Hope this helps*.


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## DRHBONES (Mar 18, 2012)

I always try to use rain water i get an EC reading of 0.03 which is good guess it depends where you live though. If I have to use tap water it reads 0.25 on the EC meter and it is soft water so I add H2O2 to help "clean" some of the disolved salt as the extra Oxygen molecule displaces and binds to some of these elements. Link for more info...www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/peroxide-garden.html


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## lahadaextranjera (Mar 23, 2012)

Hey! What a great thread/journal. I have also wondered about my water. I had to buy a RO filter as the tap water was EC 0.45. I tried to switch to coco and was unsure about whether to add tap water to EC 0.2 or mono nutes, Ca to EC 0.2, then Mg to EC 0.4 then N (for veg) to EC 0.5 then the nutes. One person even told me to do both? 
If I only add mono nutes, isn't EC 0.4 too high in Ca and Mg for my veg period if I'm on EC 0.8 - 1.0 ??I've gone back to soil in the meantime. 

What shall I add ?? Please help !!! Thank you


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## Watson26 (Mar 23, 2012)

*[url]http://www.companionplantingguide.com*[/URL]
How hard water differ from drinking water??


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## dirtycows (Mar 23, 2012)

I have a question about water... Ive been using the water you can get refills at the vending (crystal w/e) machine is that good or what?


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## dirtycows (Mar 24, 2012)

Anyone? Hmm


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## 48martin (Mar 24, 2012)

Used it before I got a portable RO system. Worked great for me but was a pain in the but lugging water around town.


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## doc111 (Mar 24, 2012)

48martin said:


> Used it before I got a portable RO system. Worked great for me but was a pain in the but lugging water around town.


Totally agree! Great water for growing......PIA lugging heavy ass jugs around!


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## doc111 (Mar 24, 2012)

lahadaextranjera said:


> Hey! What a great thread/journal. I have also wondered about my water. I had to buy a RO filter as the tap water was EC 0.45. I tried to switch to coco and was unsure about whether to add tap water to EC 0.2 or mono nutes, Ca to EC 0.2, then Mg to EC 0.4 then N (for veg) to EC 0.5 then the nutes. One person even told me to do both?
> If I only add mono nutes, isn't EC 0.4 too high in Ca and Mg for my veg period if I'm on EC 0.8 - 1.0 ??I've gone back to soil in the meantime.
> 
> What shall I add ?? Please help !!! Thank you


I don't do coco or hydro............sorry. Try the hydro forum my friend!


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## lahadaextranjera (Mar 24, 2012)

doc111 said:


> I don't do coco or hydro............sorry. Try the hydro forum my friend!



No!! Help!! I've switched back to soil but want to use the best water I can. My last line was referring to soil. 
Please help !!


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## dirtycows (Mar 25, 2012)

Agree is a pain pushing water. But ive got no ro system, and its all i got besides posin tap water. Thx


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## cbdsthcs (Apr 28, 2012)

great thread man. iv been working on a 5 stage ro system and this help out, you ever hear of viktor schauberger or his work on the quantum energy effects of water. its pretty much the next step after ROing engineers have been use a couple of his design for treating crop water


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## HinduWiff (May 1, 2012)

Thanks so much!!!!


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## lowblower (May 2, 2012)

Im so glad your still answering post on here Mr. Ganja !! very interesting read. Can you answer this question please water guru !!?

Ive got two types of water i can use from two different stores, heres the mineral analysis (in mg/litre)

1) 
Calcium = 52.18
Magnesium = 5.37
Potassium = 2.87
Sodium = 28.65
Bicarbonate = 162.0
Chloride = 16.53
Sulphate = 49.90
Nitrate = 3.78
pH = 7.93

2)
Calcium = 10.0
Magnesium = 2.5
Sodium = 9.0
potassium = 2.0
Bicarbonate = 25.0
Chloride = 12.0
Sulphate = 10.0
Nitrate = 11.0
pH = 6.2

The pH isnt that relevant because i got my pH up and down additives, but can you tell me if there is a type of water here that i really should avoid ?? Theyre both really different. Would it be best to mix them together 50:50 ?? 
Thanks !


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## doc111 (May 2, 2012)

lowblower said:


> Im so glad your still answering post on here Mr. Ganja !! very interesting read. Can you answer this question please water guru !!?
> 
> Ive got two types of water i can use from two different stores, heres the mineral analysis (in mg/litre)
> 
> ...


I would be inclined to use the second one. It has much lower Na. The Nitrate seems a bit high, but probably manageable. I would use the second one as a starting point and then you can mix the 2 if you don't like what you are seeing. If you are doing soil, don't worry too much about pH. As long as you are using properly pH adjusted soils (usually well limed) you shouldn't have to worry about your pH.


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## lowblower (May 3, 2012)

Thanks so much for the quick reply


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## ubermench (May 7, 2012)

a little known fact,totally pure water will kill you if you drink too much of it.as it has no mineral content what so ever,it will pull minerals out of your body,and cause a severe electrolite imbalance.I learned this while working briefly in a boiler room which used "dry steam"the water used must be 100% mineral free.


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## rebelfied (Jun 6, 2012)

Hey guys n gals. Thought I could post some tips regarding water. Popcicle sticks are a good " meter" for telling u its time to water. Simply stick the stick 2-3" below the soil surface after u water. Then after a day or so check ur stick for wetness. If its stil slightly damp ur still good to go. If drier or all dry its time to water. 

Also i use tap water and well water. I have 3-5 one gallon milk jugs sitting open to evapprate any chlorine in the jug. My water is usually good so i rarely check ph. This helps me save time and money using the two tricks. 

Happy growing hope this might help someone.


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## Sir.Ganga (Jun 10, 2012)

doc111 said:


> I don't do coco or hydro............sorry. Try the hydro forum my friend!


Hey doc this has been one of the most informative thing I have read, not only here but the net as whole! Clear, concise and all in one spot!

I run hydro and this has been very useful, plants have the same relationship to water in all mediums.

I currently am doing a test with tap versus r/o, side by side and wil see if there are any benifets to the outcome in quantity. I have no issues really but have read that even if your plants look healthy, water issues can result in a loss of weight overall.

What do ya think will the r/o make a difference?

Thanks again


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## doc111 (Jun 10, 2012)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Hey doc this has been one of the most informative thing I have read, not only here but the net as whole! Clear, concise and all in one spot!
> 
> I run hydro and this has been very useful, plants have the same relationship to water in all mediums.
> 
> ...


I like r/o because I can monitor precisely what I'm giving my plants. I saw a difference when I switched, but it was really out of necessity since my tapwater was over 600 ppm for most of the year.


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## Angelaent (Jun 19, 2012)

Very well composed article, Enjoyed that.


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## ca legal (Jul 3, 2012)

I have not read this whole thread yet so I apaologize if this question was already asked. Well I keep hearing people say not to use deionized water but I have not found anyone who can say why?? Is there a reason we shouldn't use deionized water? My friend has used it for years and has great results with it. I bought an RO system but I can't stand the water waste. I don't like wasting 60 gallons of water to get 20 gallons of RO water. It just bothers me to be wasteful when I don't have too. I am condiering a deionized water system but before I do that I wanted to see what your thoughts are? Thanks in advance-


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## muaythaismoker (Jul 3, 2012)

great info very well put btw im new here looking for some chat buddies to learn more hit me up ppl tell ya a lil about myself 28 married father of 3 have grown outdoors scince i was a teenage diddnt know shit but i still did alright when thieves diddnt find em but got serious 2 yrs ago indoors for good quality meds n thanks to u guys learned alot so i decided to join in on the chatter !i dont know anything about how these threads work or what stickies r so if any one could help me out so i dont do anything im not supposed to or look dumb i would appreciate it ! thanx again for the info nicley done well educated !


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## muaythaismoker (Jul 3, 2012)

i use a 55 gal drum and catch rain water from my the eve of my house works great ! i diddnt know ro systems wasted 2/3 of the water i wanted to get one ,not any more my rin water works great!


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## muaythaismoker (Jul 3, 2012)

*

i use a 55 gal drum and catch rain water from my the eve of my house works great ! i diddnt know ro systems wasted 2/3 of the water i wanted to get one ,not any more my rin water works great!​




*


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## RokerijNoord (Jul 8, 2012)

muaythaismoker said:


> *
> 
> i use a 55 gal drum and catch rain water from my the eve of my house works great ! i diddnt know ro systems wasted 2/3 of the water i wanted to get one ,not any more my rin water works great!​
> 
> ...


*

*
*

I'm guessing though...and again just a guess. That rain water may not always work great. If living in a highly industrial area wouldn't the clouds containing all the water vapor mix with the pollutants and cause a low PH level. I guess acid rain...But I know that acid rain is also a phenomenon so i'm not saying your feeding them acid rain just saying you might want to check your PH levels before feeding your babies . First post I believe. lol
*


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## Walter9999 (Jul 10, 2012)

muaythaismoker said:


> *
> 
> i use a 55 gal drum and catch rain water from my the eve of my house works great ! i diddnt know ro systems wasted 2/3 of the water i wanted to get one ,not any more my rin water works great!​
> 
> ...


Ditto on the rain barrel's. I've got two hooked together in series and I Use a Women's nylon over the spigot on the barrels when filling my empty recycled milk bottles to keep any gremlins out of the vessel.


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## codexcannabis (Jul 12, 2012)

brilliant post mate, much appreciated


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## Badmf (Jul 13, 2012)

Great idea to consider the water as it is what controls the nutes as far as adding or having a def. of something essential. Rain water is great but if it is collected from your roof what did it pick up off the roof? Boiling it is a waste of time,It would kill organisms but won't remove most chemicals, it has extra oxygen molecules which invigorate roots. But it won't keep in that state. the Ozone factor. RO systems do have various ratios of waste but you could use it for your lawn etc it won't do any harm. Many bottle machines use filters which don't get the maintenace they should!! I see folks carting away this stuff as if its manna from heaven. Most here are located outside coin laundries. Also keep in mind nutrient man'fers formulate off "tap" so they adjust according to what they believe they are starting with now some know you may use R/O and have seperate formulas for that. GH is one. Your food crops are using tap and whatever rain comes upon them, its not an answer in total but part of the issue. Simply do an easy experiment with some potted plants, feed one tap plus whatever nute at the same rate Ph etc as the ones using RO and /or distilled et al. and chart the differnces if any. Is it worth invessting time resources to change you will have an answer right there. No time for this. Just want an answer. Well I have grown with tap and its 8.3 and varies from 330-390 throughout the year. I have several R/O units and have run them. The benefit of RO is better drinking water for you. Bottles waste a lot of energy transporting etc and who needs more plastic residues? Landfill too. I havehad very sucessful grows with tap based waters, I have had some nightmares with RO as I had to figure which elements needed to be added back. Cal Mag etc. and at what rate. It made my grow a science project from hell! I wanted a simple fix, something that would be easy to do without chemicals so I use some RO mixed with tap around 60/40 to add back the missing. It works well. No nute defs and healthy plants. I do filter for paticulate matter as hydro units can get clogged up. I will run a set of experiments to show what happened with tap vs etc. Need to find that cam, I think it has legs, always somewhere else. anyways I am rooting some Bubba bx2 and Herijuanas and will devote a few to a pot to see what the outcome is. Great post BTW Good info and a wake up to thise who overlooked the water, ahhh. Yes the water.


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## doc111 (Jul 18, 2012)

doc111 said:


> Physical Properties of Water
> ​
> We live on a planet that is dominated by water. More than 70% of the Earth's surface is covered with this simple molecule. Scientists estimate that the *hydrosphere* contains about 1.36 billion cubic kilometers of this substance mostly in the form of a liquid (water) that occupies topographic depressions on the Earth. The second most common form of the water molecule on our planet is ice. If all our planet's ice melted, sea-level would rise by about 70 meters.
> 
> ...





scotwilson said:


> one thing you left buddy ph value
> 
> ph value of water is 7
> 
> ...


I didn't forget, it's just embedded in a broader post. Post #19 on the second page (which I quoted above your quote) deals with pH towards the bottom. Welcome to RIU.


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## MightyBlaze (Jul 18, 2012)

All this scientific knowledge!


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## Strawberrychocolope (Jul 20, 2012)

ram some volvic down them pure freshness


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## hotrodharley (Jul 21, 2012)

Nicely done. And that is from a dialysis nurse. Our patients' lives revolve around water as does the entire dialysis process. You covered the subject extremely well.


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## Joshue (Jul 21, 2012)

Seemingly water had played an important role on every aspect of life which is also a necessary tool in enriching bio-life.


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## Lendar (Jul 22, 2012)

I have been reading this thread for days, now I want to say thanks to doc. This thread should read every grower.


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## hotrodharley (Jul 24, 2012)

Lendar said:


> I have been reading this thread for days, now I want to say thanks to doc. This thread should read every grower.


I think I know what you are saying and I agree. I think. Water. Earth - the Blue Planet. The Water Planet. People keep freaking on nutes on this site it seems but ignore water and air the most.


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## MightyBlaze (Aug 13, 2012)

Good to see we have a chemist who has everything covered!


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## newstrainnewpain (Aug 14, 2012)

good reading


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## Sanyapt (Aug 16, 2012)

Íåïëîõî  èíòåðíåò ðåñóðñ   ñîâåòóþ   ðåêîìåíäóþ


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## Dr. Kundilini (Aug 19, 2012)

doc111, Excellent thread. Seems I have been reading for hours. So much info, tips, comments about the basic cornerstone of life. Simple water is really not so simple and you are helping inform people and debunk the myths that seem to get legs on some of the forums. All the information on this thread didn't just appear. It took many hours to gather, process and post. Thanks you for all your efort.


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## Medicine4Me (Aug 22, 2012)

Nice post doc111!

I always was of the opinion that light was the most important part of the recipie for great growing. I don't have hard water, but I have learned to stop letting the water stand 48 hours. Sometmes the water smelled rank. Now I just use ph down and fresh water plus nutrients. 

Water is sacred!


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## ODanksta (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks Hitler

http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2011/04/hitler-put-fluoride-in-water-of.html


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## Warriorbuds (Sep 1, 2012)

I think my 1 and only plant is going to die because of feeding it tap water......had no idea a)my water was that hard/bad? b)that water is that important to plant life! Leafs have all gone yellow and died and/or are dying off, and I just performed an emergency flush with boiled water last night.....any ideas on saving this plant guys? Please help a new newbie out!!! TY
Great site!


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## captainmorgan (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm on a well and softener and bought one of these 60 GPD 3 stage refurbed R/O units today,$95 and $22 shipping.The aquarium community seems really high on these.
http://www.spectrapure.com/email/customer-appreciation.html


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## MightyBlaze (Sep 15, 2012)

haha I love this thread.


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## youngpablo (Sep 18, 2012)

Hey there guyz and galz.....have a noob question....is it ok for you to use Poland spring water ??? Ive used it on my last micro grow and the one before that which was a total screw-up....but for some reason i think it works great...never had t adjust the ph on it....just not sure if what to add cal/mag etc...ive heard natural spring water usually has alot of minerals it might be a lil pricey depending on the amount of plants ..but i just want a concrete answer..is POLAND SPRING GOOD TO GROW??


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## youngpablo (Sep 19, 2012)

Hello!?!?!? Anybody home?!?!?....anybody with some knowledge bout this...pleae shed some light...maybe somebodys used it before ??? Poland spring natural spring water ???? Is it any good???


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## youngpablo (Sep 23, 2012)

Bump anybody????


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## uksecretsensi (Sep 24, 2012)

doc111 said:


> Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".
> 
> 
> *What is "Hard Water"?*
> ...


Or use hardwater nutes e.g. Dutch pro a+b for hardwater. Works fine for me.


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## uksecretsensi (Sep 24, 2012)

youngpablo said:


> Hey there guyz and galz.....have a noob question....is it ok for you to use Poland spring water ??? Ive used it on my last micro grow and the one before that which was a total screw-up....but for some reason i think it works great...never had t adjust the ph on it....just not sure if what to add cal/mag etc...ive heard natural spring water usually has alot of minerals it might be a lil pricey depending on the amount of plants ..but i just want a concrete answer..is POLAND SPRING GOOD TO GROW??


Iv never used it personally but have heard great things about it. Hope this helps.


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## Bob Bongloaded (Sep 24, 2012)

Re: "Polish Spring Water"

If the guy lives in Poland next to a spring it's probably best choice. If it's in bottles it's probably no better than tapwater and sometimes worse...but always, more expensive.


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## uksecretsensi (Sep 24, 2012)

Bob Bongloaded said:


> Re: "Polish Spring Water"
> 
> If the guy lives in Poland next to a spring it's probably best choice. If it's in bottles it's probably no better than tapwater and sometimes worse...but always, more expensive.


Yes I agree with bob. I was under the assumption he lived next to a polish spring. There r many polish where I live in the UK. Most of them who I know grow weed. They r always going on about spring water in Poland but I guess there are more countries than Poland with freshwater springs.


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## youngpablo (Sep 25, 2012)

Sorry for not being more clear on my question guys ....i live in new York city...and i meant Poland spring as in the bottled. water they sell around these parts ....sorry ....i wish i was in Poland


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## youngpablo (Oct 9, 2012)

Seems like nobody wants to play with me.....j/k..... how bout zero water...have u ..guys had any experince with it...im tlking about that water filtration gallon that looks like brita ....but better supposedly


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## mrcourios (Oct 9, 2012)

youngpablo said:


> Seems like nobody wants to play with me.....j/k..... how bout zero water...have u ..guys had any experince with it...im tlking about that water filtration gallon that looks like brita ....but better supposedly


Get yourself a R/O unit,this company is highly rated and they run specials quite often. I got a 90 gpd refurb unit for $117 shipped,no more lugging water home for me.

http://spectrapure.com/index.htm


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## youngpablo (Oct 11, 2012)

Sorry bud R/O system is outta the question...for now.... im just tryin to get this crop off the ground so i can later invest much bigger and better..i know u get what u pay for. ..and sorry for nitpicking buuut i just need an economical way to start up and get some good water..and yes i know buying gallons of water from the supermarket every other day is really not that cheap but its easier for me cuz i basically work for tips {no im not a stripper}..and it doesnt seem to hurt me as much spending 3-4 bucks a week on water


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## youngpablo (Oct 11, 2012)

What im trying to say is this : im in NY tap water is shitty high ph and such..with poland spring water my plants seemd to love it buuuut i saw somewhere that its very soft water bout 20ppm ...anybody...just anybody give me some sort of recipe for some good water in NY...btw should be getting a tds / ppm meter soon ...and the ph for poland spring looks on point when i check it


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## blazeofglory07 (Oct 12, 2012)

Man very nice post. Water is actually more complicated than it seems and i see a lot of growers lose plants that are capable of a lot more than they got! Props and a bookmark man.


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## Sir.Ganga (Oct 17, 2012)

Hey doc...one of the best reads on this site for sure! Very informitive and not bias one way or the other. Clear and conscise, good on ya!

I have a different opinion on R/O. I was shown what was in my tap water over 20yrs ago and was shown the proper application of using an r/o system.

Firts of all what I learnt is you plants do not care if your water has 200,300,400 ppms to start its what in that 200,300 or 400ppm that should warrant an r/o system.

Generlly in western Canada's cities you have mainly minerals like calcium, iron, flouride and of course chlorine (chlorimine) that are in your taps. I was shown that most of these are at a size that plants can not use or uptake and do not affect the general growth of the plants until they are let build up in your medium.

Now Im not saying that r/o should not be used but unless you have a legitimate reason there is no real benifet. Well water, dugouts, farms or other water sources that have other elements or contaminants may require a system and should be used for everything including cooking drinking cleaning and of course growing.

My tap water runs at 300-350ppm year round, this number is now my new point of zero, if your looking for a certain ppm, say 1000ppm then my set point for my ppm is 1350.

Basically using an r/o will effectively drop your ppm to zero but if you really do not have too is there a real benifet and is it something else to take care of.

This..of course is my opinion, which I have based on multiple tests on the subject and unless I move to a farm of smaller town I will not use one.
_________________________


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## Brandawg92 (Oct 17, 2012)

Wow fifty pages, and I'm gonna be the first to say this? 

Well Doc, you do know about water purification. But the problem is that cannabis needs more than we can give it. Count your hydro nutes, if theyre any good ther should b 15 nutrients. 

Cannabis needs i think somewhere between 21 and 25 some including:
aluminum
chlorine
silicone
Iodine
vanadium

Anyways, most of these are contaminants in tap water. So, since i know no other way to supply these i use tap water once in a while, but usually just distilled. 

Any thoughts?


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## Brandawg92 (Oct 24, 2012)

Bumpity bump bump


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## bubbles6302 (Oct 24, 2012)

Just finished reading this and i must say very imformative im impressed a pat on the back for all the people that supplied information . 

I have a r/o unit that does 190lpd 
http://www.hydrogarden.com/Ko-Bespoke/stockdetails.asp?product=1/BY CATEGORY AND SUB/ENVIRONMENTAL/REVERSE OSMOSIS/0/09-455-015.htm
When i bought it i never knew how they worked and when i got it fitted and ran water through it to water my ladies with i was shocked at the speed of the water through the unit it would of took a few hours just to fill up 1 of my 5 litre bottles . Just wondering are all R/O units the same? Also do i really have to buy a water storage vessel to collect the water from te R/O unit? bloody thing cost me nearly £300


----------



## bubbles6302 (Oct 24, 2012)

Just finished reading this and i must say very imformative im impressed a pat on the back for all the people that supplied information . 

I have a r/o unit that does 190lpd 
http://www.hydrogarden.com/Ko-Bespok...09-455-015.htm
When i bought it i never knew how they worked and when i got it fitted and ran water through it to water my ladies with i was shocked at the speed of the water through the unit it would of took a few hours just to fill up 1 of my 5 litre bottles . Just wondering are all R/O units the same? Also do i really have to buy a water storage vessel to collect the water from te R/O unit? bloody thing cost me nearly £300


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## Brandawg92 (Oct 25, 2012)

Brandawg92 said:


> Wow fifty pages, and I'm gonna be the first to say this?
> 
> Well Doc, you do know about water purification. But the problem is that cannabis needs more than we can give it. Count your hydro nutes, if theyre any good ther should b 15 nutrients.
> 
> ...


Still would like some input...


----------



## dray86man (Nov 4, 2012)

Brandawg92 said:


> Still would like some input...


Municipal tap water is fine for cannabis and as you point out, contains many micronutrients.

Why anyone on a municipal water system would go to the expense of using RO or distilled water is curious to me.


Doc, thanks for citing your sources in this great thread.


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## purpslovindude (Nov 11, 2012)

doc111 said:


> Thanks. I seldom saw any threads about water on here and figured since I had firsthand experience with crappy tapwater that I would do a thread to help answer peoples questions about water and the different purification methods commonly used by growers. It always surprises me to see how many people have no idea what hard water is.


The timing of me finding this thread is perfect. I was debating on switching from buying r.o water to using tap to cut cost, but after reading all this about hard water, i think i will stay paying for perfect water, lol!!! I too have extremely hard water and dont wanna chance it with my ladies. Thanks so much Doc youve helped someone else now right at the right time.


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## Brandawg92 (Nov 11, 2012)

Science is not to read and repeat, its finding the questions that are hard to find an answer to. And unfortunately I dont have the means to figure this out yet. 

All I can say is I take this with a grain of salt and will not solely give mine distilled water


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## ArCaned (Dec 10, 2012)

Great thread, loads of interesting and useful info here.


Thanks!


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## Mike32539 (Dec 10, 2012)

I use well water at home which is apparently hard water because deposits are left on the shower head, tea kettle etc. 
We use Nestle' Pure Life water for drinking/cooking. This is what is on the label-> "We use reverse osmosis or distillation & enhanced with a balance of minerals for taste. ingredients, purified water, calcium chloridge, sodium bicarbinate, magnesiam sulfate".
Is this okay to use on my plants? Thanks in advance -Mike


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## super smoking puffer (Jan 23, 2013)

i use bottled water and it works well for me you know the big 10$ refillables


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## GanjaHead420 (Jan 24, 2013)

I love water!


----------



## bobbyturtle (Jan 26, 2013)

*rain water!*


----------



## troyboyny7 (Feb 9, 2013)

think i might have severly over water too much nutrients maybe I am new at cultivation and I am seeking information tips and help from those who are experts atgrowing plants, I have searched the internet and I left with a shrinking list of top botanists. Today I am
asking you for help in saving my crop. My plant leaves have a white powdery spots on them, and they
are wilting, I have trimmed the dead and dying leaves and have topped them off, it has been over two
weeks since then and have not seen any new growth, just the other day I transplanted them into a
larger container with a mix of Rexius Forest Organic Pot Soil 0782Fra Potting Soil, Perlite by Sunleaves,
Espoma VM8 Organic Vermiculite, and now grow them under a mix of LED wholesalers 2501QUAD
Blue/Red/Orange/White 225 LED 13.8 Watt Square Grow Light Panel 110 Volt, 4 clfs 75 w, and 2 small
grow tubes, if you would like more information I can email you additional info, pictures and or video. If
you have no information to provide to me, perhaps you know where I will get the help my plants need,
thank you. Support federal reform to legalize NOW!


----------



## kagecog (Feb 10, 2013)

Definitely some great info right here!


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## Bryon240 (Feb 14, 2013)

i am asking when growing in soil do i ph the water i give my regular water days....and ph to 5.5 on fert days...my water is from a deep well,300 plus feet,i have a ph of 10.3 out of the tap.thanks


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## Bryon240 (Feb 14, 2013)

troyboyny7 i had a white spots on my leaves that were a little fuzzy....i put 1.5 TBS of baking soda,1.5 TBS NEEM OIL organic, and a shot of palmolive(2-3 drops) mix in 1 gallon of warm to hottish water....shake vigurously...then spray to cover all leaf surface....my leaves are all shiny and healthy...good luck


----------



## turbodiesel (Feb 26, 2013)

great info


----------



## knotmyself (Mar 20, 2013)

great info thanks


----------



## sephiclo (Mar 23, 2013)

Thank you, this helped a lot.


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## john1woohoo (Apr 14, 2013)

great post. water n ph matter !


----------



## ChristineAR (Apr 25, 2013)

Ahh, this thread so helpful. Thanks!


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## themutherfunkindthatsme (Apr 29, 2013)

this is great thread but slippery slope since were already programmed to water water water or in cannabis growers case feed feed feed, unlike leaves, roots breath oxygen and like to feed or open for uptake when the ec is pretty low(< 2), so she loves here water but needs to dry out and get mediums ec down, otherwise she wont open xylem which forces pressure up into plant when salts in medium are less than salts in root system, this thread is amazing.. and the reason i bring up ec is generally no matter how many salts are in medium, once theres moisture they become available. For those still hungry www.maximumyield.com/inside-my-com/features-articles/item/112-electrical-conductivity-and-monitoring-plant-nutrition there's a thread here on ec but for the most part is from link, and no worries if u don't meter no prob just be sure she gets just to that point of bone dry no further, and alternate feeds with beneficials to keep salts leeched and ec low so she can feed when time, if not alternating feeds with beneficials during veg because you're either outdoors or using high intensity lights 600w or 1000w's be sure to flush at beginning of flower and about half way through, sorry for being slightly off topic not intended... with more and more growers everyday posting new grows all over, its become a real habit of seeing repercussions of over watered/nuted plants and google your cities public water site which posts ph and mineral quality control, unless you use well water.. always allow water to sit in non airtight for 48-72hrs letting most chlorine evaporate, and find trusted source of cal mag if using r.o., and for yourself getblk.com/ does a body good, id use it on plants if i could, cheers on thread thnx


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## alrachid (May 15, 2013)

Wow I honestly never really gave all of that much thought. A lot of good information here, thank you I appreciate it.


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## bigbaby420 (May 21, 2013)

appreciate the reeducation on the simple complexity of water..


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## NotDetermined (May 25, 2013)

Hi Guys, 

I'm getting ready for growing and I've got everything sorted out but there is one big problem that has occurred and this might sound pretty ridiculous but I can only water it at 6 am and then water it again at 5, from 5 on I have no problem watering it every 2 hours or so but the problem is from the morning to 5 without watering... There is a lake near me, I found a great place to plant... Should I plant it next to the lake due to me not being able to water it before 5 so that it gets water naturally from the lake and it won't necessarily being over watered because I wont water it for a good chunk of the day. If not I doubt it but are their any solutions to this?

Thanks guys


----------



## jahvibesallday (Jun 21, 2013)

so distilled is the way to go?


----------



## ScouseChonga (Jun 22, 2013)

Hi, I'm thinking of using sparkling water. Is this good or bad??


----------



## MrHighlife (Jun 24, 2013)

Thank you so much good information!


----------



## sunni (Jun 24, 2013)

ScouseChonga said:


> Hi, I'm thinking of using sparkling water. Is this good or bad??


i would highly advise against that


----------



## PeaceGrow (Jun 26, 2013)

I found this to be one of the most helpful post yet, because H20 is the most important compound, I have always agreed!!! thanks so much!!


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## junior870 (Jul 9, 2013)

i ain't trying to be one of "those" guys but as long as you water you're plant's, they will thrive


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## chiefrokaho (Jul 10, 2013)

Is there a way to lower the ph of my water WITHOUT taking all the minerals out of it? Its good well water jus alot of limestone around here i guess. I want to stay organic so if anyone says pour bleach in it i might blow a gasket! lol Thx for any replys


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## Magnetar (Jul 10, 2013)

chiefrokaho said:


> Is there a way to lower the ph of my water WITHOUT taking all the minerals out of it? Its good well water jus alot of limestone around here i guess. I want to stay organic so if anyone says pour bleach in it i might blow a gasket! lol Thx for any replys


PH Down or Phosphoric acid and citric acid.


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## stonedirish (Aug 16, 2013)

So distilled water is okay to use then yea? Because that's what I have been using.


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## Waterman17 (Aug 27, 2013)

Thank You Doc 111. One of the best threads i have read in a long time. 

I have been growing organically in soil so far with mediocre results but no real deficiencies using straight tap water. In my particular situation i am sitting with very hard water EC 0.7 and PH of 9.0. I have been running a COCO grow as well and have been blown away by the growth. So far no signs of Def's but i am worried...All this reading about Water quality makes you crazy. 

I would like to keep it as simple as possible and would appreciate answers to the follwoing:
Should i Install RO to control exactly what is in my nutrient mix. I will have to add CALMAG because RO takes this out as well.

Should i Mix RO and Tap water to get EC's down to about 0.2.

If there was a perfect water profile you could pick for Soil and for Hydro what would you pick?

Thanks


----------



## Toltec (Aug 27, 2013)

What about well water.. ours is some of the cleanest in the US. It taste clean and has no smell... super clear, our well is 800 feet down/ 7000 foot elevation


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## Superstealthaus (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey doc looked through many many pages in this sticky and can't find anything about the old 'aircon run off water' myth, that being that it is purified and my household ac pumps out a constant ph of 6.4


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## chiefrokaho (Aug 30, 2013)

What the hell?!


----------



## haight (Sep 2, 2013)

Mike32539 said:


> I use well water at home which is apparently hard water because deposits are left on the shower head, tea kettle etc.
> We use Nestle' Pure Life water for drinking/cooking. This is what is on the label-> "We use reverse osmosis or distillation & enhanced with a balance of minerals for taste. ingredients, purified water, calcium chloridge, sodium bicarbinate, magnesiam sulfate".
> Is this okay to use on my plants? Thanks in advance -Mike


Sodium bicarbonate AKA as baking soda will raise your ph. Better check it before you put too much in.


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## PetFlora (Sep 4, 2013)

Been studying water for many years, decided to incorporate the various elements needed to make water most bio-available- flooming+ river rock + magnetics

Check out my thread to follow along


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## CyberSmoke (Sep 8, 2013)

I have been using the condensation water screened from my indoor air conditioner which drops out 5 gallons almost every 24 hours of pure water with a ph of 6.5 / 6.7 .. of course i readjust as needed after adding nutrients..
I also bubble that water with a air stone for 24 hrs and have had fantastic results, my veg plants leaves reach up for the lights like never before


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## MISSPHOEBE (Sep 10, 2013)

_... and heres lil ol me just realizing theres a "Ph down" for growing and a different "Ph down" for Flowering.......
........... how come I never noticed that before...........¿¿¿??? DUH!_


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## Growing guru (Oct 11, 2013)

Lol like you guys said he didn't even mention ac run off which is better than r/o for me I use gh nutes and after mixing them with ac run off my ph is six oh every time. A beginner reading this shit would say omg then his head would explode. Good effort but simplify the shit and tell the people what they should be using and how to use it man get an r/o if you can't collect ac runoff. Also aerators do not oxygenate water for shit don't believe me get a d/o meter and test it. You want oxygenated water chill it down to about 68 degrees then stick your d/o meter in there


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## sold777 (Oct 19, 2013)

So good thank you doc111.
regards


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## perdidobandito (Oct 22, 2013)

Neat information


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## Hyatuso (Oct 24, 2013)

Doc I have to say this is an impressive post. Good, solid information and was a very good read. Thankyou.


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## robbyie66 (Nov 5, 2013)

stupid question. what should the ph level for growin indoor autos I believe 6.6-7.0 am I wrong If so please let me know!!! dont wont to start off wrong..... tnx everyone.....


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## Lank902 (Nov 12, 2013)

Thanks so much for this post Doc. Much needed information for any level of grower I'd think, more so for me since I'm just starting out.

I've been reading a lot of people talking about how important it is to flush your plants a week before you harvest, to get rid of the nutrients. If I'm just using my normal tap water do I still need to do this ? Or is this only something you need to do if you're adding all sorts of store bought nutes to the grow ? Big bud, some of these others, etc ,

Here's my water specs for where I live, measured in milligrams per litre. I don't have any idea how this works out with this threads ppm readings though, anyone else have a thought if this is ok maybe ?

Alkalinity- raw- <1.0 treated - 18.0
Calcium- raw- 1.06 treated- 4.2
Chloride- raw-7.2 treated- 8.8
Fluoride- raw- <0.10 treated- 0.62
Hardness (CaC03)- raw- 4.4 treated- 12.5
Hardness (Grains)- raw- 0.31 treated- 0.90
Sodium- raw- 4.3 treated- 0.41

Any help would be appreciated !!


 


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## AB Bud Soon (Nov 17, 2013)

I also have some questions about water quality (well water...not municipal supply). Here are the h2o test results. Unfortunately from 2011, but at least it gives me a place to start looking at what I'll need to do. This will be for 1000+ plant mmj warehouse grow.

pH=8.5
Calcium: 4.6mg/l
Magnesium: 0.8 mg/l
sodium: 482 mg/l
Potassium: 1.4 mg/l
Iron: 0.05 mg/l
Manganese <0.005mg/l
Chloride: 2.6 mg/l
Fluoride: 1.5 mg/l
Nitrate-N: <.05 mg/l
Nitrite-N: <.02 mg/l
Sulfate (SO4): 517 mg/l
Hydroxide: <5 mg/l
Carbonate: 16 mg/l
Bicarbonate: 629 mg/l
P-Alkalinity (as CaCO3) : 13 mg/l
T-Alkalinity (as CaCO3) : 542 mg/l
TOTAL DISSOLVED SOLIDS: 1330 mg/l
Hardness: 15 mg/l
Ionic Balance: 98%

I'm no water expert by any means. But from looking at some of these numbers, I think I will have to go with a good RO system and some pHDown. 

Any feedback would be awesome


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## rockogtr (Feb 15, 2014)

thanks found this very helpful, im going to have to test my water and account for that as well before i start buying things for my first grow


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## grassgirl69 (Feb 27, 2014)

I've always used water straight out of my brita filter just because I knew the water was hard in my area. My plants have always came out wonderfully!


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## youknowthekid! (Mar 5, 2014)

So without reading more in depth, a good RO filter will make water better on all accounts for drinking and watering plants? High sodium concentrations for fat persons consideration aside, the water is perfect right?


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## growkid5709 (Mar 20, 2014)

Sorry if i have posted this in the wrong place but i am a new grower and my plant is 6 days old web should i start it on nutes also it is getting cery tall any help would be great thanks


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## pixils (Mar 20, 2014)

DOCwhat is your feelings on natural spring water or Poland springs distilled water thank you in advance


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## pixils (Mar 21, 2014)

People who used distilled water must add ca and mg. if not you will your weed will not carry the proper
t
r
u
I
n
t
s


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## aussiecloud (Mar 22, 2014)

lol, I piss on my plants and they love it.


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## tstick (Jun 8, 2014)

Hi. Thanks for the great thread.

I decided to do an experiment and so I bought one of these:

http://familybedrock.com/garden-hose-filter

I think the plants like it and there is no salt residue on the soil….fairly cheap.


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## bravedave (Jun 11, 2014)

Ok, my head is going to explode after reading all this. So I am looking for generalities. I have a well that produces pretty hard water, thus I have a salt based water conditioner. In "general" should this conditioned water be fine for my plants? Better if I filter it? I also live near a lake...in general, if filtered, would this water be fine for my plants?


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## Dat Dank (Jun 11, 2014)

aussiecloud said:


> lol, I piss on my plants and they love it.


They probably do. I heard urine is high in nitrogen.


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## tstick (Jun 11, 2014)

bravedave said:


> Ok, my head is going to explode after reading all this. So I am looking for generalities. I have a well that produces pretty hard water, thus I have a salt based water conditioner. In "general" should this conditioned water be fine for my plants? Better if I filter it? I also live near a lake...in general, if filtered, would this water be fine for my plants?


I would filter it all just to be safe. That little inline filter I bought (link in my last post) would probably be good. They cost about $40.00 and supposedly last a long time. -my 2 cents.


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## bravedave (Jun 12, 2014)

tstick said:


> I would filter it all just to be safe. ....


Thanks for the response. I actually read through these 28 pages one more time once the ticking stopped in my head... and the second time was a charm. As I too can get a gallon of RO water locally for next to nothing and the fact that my needs are small...I am going that route. While also, like you advise, getting a filter to have on hand.


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## arhdhath (Jun 15, 2014)

Hard water is another problem many of us face.


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## Rod Roc (Jun 19, 2014)

aussiecloud said:


> lol, I piss on my plants and they love it.



LOL that would give your cannabis plants some nutrients


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## TJ Hill (Jun 26, 2014)

doc111 said:


> Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".
> 
> 
> *What is "Hard Water"?*
> ...


Great article nice to see the science that can make all things better.


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## TJ Hill (Jun 26, 2014)

Thanks! Doc this movement needs more like you! New member, hospice RN, and it is so great to see the science that can make all things better. More please


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## rob333 (Jun 26, 2014)

what happens when u just piss on em ??


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## rene112388 (Jun 30, 2014)

I feel this has been mentioned in the 500 Or so messages but im sorry i havnt. The time...i have two questions and a referrance to a page numbrr would be awsome...what about rain water (ive heatd its tops)? And About leaving your contsiner open, if you had water that was acidic, woldnt the reducing the preddure by letting it out of the pipe effect the carbonic acid-CO2 equilibrium and raise the Ph?


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## Silky Shagsalot (Jun 30, 2014)

anyone ever try using magnetized water???


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## Mader89 (Jul 28, 2014)

gogrow said:


> I've wondered about my water lately... we buy distilled water for our baby's bottle, but we use well water straight out the ground.... its not hardwater, but its that stinky eggwater, so i'm lead to believe that its high in sulfur.... been wanting to do a comparison and start using distilled water on one plant.... i might now
> 
> 
> 
> now you're the "water guru", and will get loads of questions like this.... have fun


Did you try the comparison?


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## jasonzbtzl (Aug 11, 2014)

I have a question about water and PH. I called my local water plant to find out what the PH is of the water coming out of the tap. The guy told me its around 7.8-7.9. My question is this, if it is put into Big City Hydro Coco does that drop the PH any? If so is there anyway short of testing runoff to determine what the PH my seedling are getting will be?


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## Jim Aise (Aug 15, 2014)

doc111 said:


> Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".
> 
> 
> *What is "Hard Water"?*
> ...


----------



## 2Hearts (Aug 22, 2014)

My water is 7,8 to 8,0 with ppm of well under 100ppm and shows no ill effect when used in indoor soil. I like this thread as ph means more hydgrogen or oxygen alters ph, at a base level.

This thread did advise to find out my water quality by calling up. They dont use chloramides either and water plant straight from the tap, lucky me.


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## jasonzbtzl (Aug 29, 2014)

Paul Walter said:


> get high with me
> Organic, grown in greenhouse or natural sunlight.
> 
> Clean medical grade.
> ...




and the DA would like to present exhibit A....


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 2, 2014)

Great info...thanks!


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## 2layz2p (Sep 5, 2014)

Very informative, I love a good read for helpful things with my garden as I grow organically, did you have anything on rain water or did i pass over it...? i am running on very little sleep...but I was just thinking about all the contaminants that maybe in our rain water, acid's, salts, etc I don't want to kill off my microbes so I use RO water, I add cal/mag to the point of 120 ppm, I wonder if this is a good idea or not? I never really have any probs with mag deficiencies. Again thanks for a very informative / valuable read.


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## JRayV (Sep 16, 2014)

I got this stuff called ClorAm-X to treat my tap water as an alternative to hauling around 5 gallon jugs.

http://www.hikariusa.com/solutions/waterconditioner/cloram-x/


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## dfjshrd (Sep 17, 2014)

This is a really awsome thread, I've been wondering lately as well about my water. I live in the boonies and have nice tasting clean water so assumed it was good for my girls. I just had flashbacks of college bio classes lol.


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## cues (Sep 17, 2014)

Oxygen is the most important compound.


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## Dankfactory (Oct 11, 2014)

Why, what a Sciency thread. I'm a saltwater reef aquaria fanatic and am likely even more active on the reef tank forums than I am on the grow boards. Point being that you simply can't keep a successful reef tank without knowing your municipal tap like the back of your hand and testing for a ludicrous number of elements and pollutants. I keep a monthly chart of test results and invested in a Spectrapure Maxcap UHE 100 GPD RODI to ensure my shit is sparkling when it exits that output line. That's for the aquariums.
With that said, I use straight up Ph'd untreated Hard water tap for my garden and have been doing so for years( in dirt )
My tap is loaded with Chloramines and everything else that is supposed to render flower quality to the briny depths of mediocrity.
I don't buy it. Unless you're growing DWC or Hydro where you lack bennies, chances are your water is absolutely fine straight out of the Tap. Don't take Cannabis cultivation too seriously Its an extremely basic set of rules to adhere to in order to produce quality.
* noticed there's a few unquoted sources here which can be found: 
http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edudev/LabTutorials/Water/FreshWater/hardness.html
http://www.lenntech.com/library/reverse-osmosis/whatisro.htm

Some good info in the thread, but I think some are/were under the impression that this was a write up instead of some cutting and pasting with a few Bold/italics mixed in.


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## jay57 (Oct 16, 2014)

doc111 said:


> Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".
> 
> 
> *What is "Hard Water"?*
> ...


Amazing my man, nice job!


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## sunny747 (Oct 31, 2014)

I just had a thought. have you guys ever seen the experiments where the scientist says nice things to the water and it forms beautiful patterns? I've never been convinced this is true because I can't create the affect myself, but it would be cool to try on our mj water


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## az2000 (Nov 29, 2014)

Dankfactory said:


> Why, what a Sciency thread. ... Some good info in the thread, but I think some are/were under the impression that this was a write up instead of some cutting and pasting with a few Bold/italics mixed in.


I don't understand why this thread was "stickied." Reduces the significance of stickied threads, IMO.


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## Gary Jarcia (Dec 1, 2014)

I had been boiling water for the longest time for lack of a better solution. Recently I added a reverse osmosis filter, and all my troubles are gone. My first DWC grow with boiled tap water was problematic to say the least. I live in Colorado and all the water here is runoff so it picks up pesticides, herbicides, chemicals, fertilizers, waste, & god knows what else. The water here is rediculously high in chloramine, damn near to the point of toxic. Not to mention that the salts in hard water can cause elephant foot and kill your shit.


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## kupihea (Dec 13, 2014)

Thanks for this wealth of information.


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## Dankfactory (Dec 22, 2014)

az2000 said:


> I don't understand why this thread was "stickied." Reduces the significance of stickied threads, IMO.


Apparently when you simply cut and paste documents someone else wrote, verbatim, and call it a " write up," the forums will go Wild with adoration.


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## FiddlersGreen (Jan 13, 2015)

i have question that i know is to basic for this thread but ive been unable to find an answer so ima ask anyway
how bad (how high a pmm) can my water be before an RO system (or something comparable) is a requirement?


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## Countyboy88 (Jan 19, 2015)

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not yet. But, im wondering if anyone has tried using aquarium water treatment products to treat their water and if its a good idea or not? 

I just picked up some jungle brand "start right." And will report my findings in a couple weeks or so. Theres a ton of stuff at wally world in the fish section including ph regulating tablets and stuff. 

Im no scientist, so i might be missing something. please let me know if there is anything potentially harmful that im missing.

I got the start right specifically for its claim of killing off chlorine and chloramine. I have city water that im sure has stuff in it. Usually i bubble my water with an airstone for about a day before using. During the bubbling, if you smell the water, you can smell that chlorine/pool type smell. Ysterday i used a lil less than the recommended dose, (15 drops for about 2.5 gallons instead of 10 drops per g.) started bubbling, checked back in a few hrs and no chlorine smell at all. So far im impressed and i used it for a watering last night. 

Im asking particularly for the organic/AACT folks as well as hydro folks. Currently im an organic/soil guy but am getting ready to try a pilot run of a homemade DWC bucket so i want to make sure everything is proper for that going forward.


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## Sagethisplanet (Feb 1, 2015)

Brita is good R/O has naddda so cal/ mag a must. Tap thru the Brita and 24 hours to rid chlorine is really perfect. Unless water is such er hard


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## queenB14 (Feb 14, 2015)

Hello all!! I am a new member!!! Couldn't find where to introduce myself so I will do it here. I am a pretty seasoned vet. with regards to ions and properties of organic compounds. I went to school for biochemistry. So I must say that was a pretty well explained lesson about water Doc111. Good job and thank you. My question is with my Pre Evolution. I just purchased one because my hydrologic ro 1000 was not keeping up well with the heavy chlorine that the city puts in my water. The problem is that the inlet and the outlet of the pre-evolution are broken. right out of the box. I have read that this is a problem, but can be fixed easily and all will be well. Any suggestions on what kind of adapter I need to get this up and running. My back is killing me from having to run to a local spring, and my plants are suffering from the city water.


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## bellcore (Feb 26, 2015)

Hey folks, can anyone comment on my water? I grow in Sunshine mix #4 with GH Flora three part. I do not PH:

Frostbite Falls, MN (as of 8/12/0:

pH 7.5
Sodium, Na 10
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 90
Magnesium, Mg 29
Total Hardness, CaCO3 346
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.2 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 7
Chloride, Cl 20
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 371
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 304

Thanks man!


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## churchhaze (Mar 20, 2015)

bellcore said:


> Hey folks, can anyone comment on my water? I grow in Sunshine mix #4 with GH Flora three part. I do not PH:
> 
> Frostbite Falls, MN (as of 8/12/0:
> 
> ...


Yep.. looks like water to me.


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## bellcore (Mar 20, 2015)

Heh. Thanks Churchy. Actually the PH meter arrived yesterday and my tap water is 8.1. Stocked up on some PH down and I should be good to go.


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## married 2 juanna (Apr 17, 2015)

Hey doc any chance u would know the reason my ladies are not taking in water and drying out? 


We live on a planet that is dominated by water. More than 70% of the Earth's surface is covered with this simple molecule. Scientists estimate that the *hydrosphere* contains about 1.36 billion cubic kilometers of this substance mostly in the form of a liquid (water) that occupies topographic depressions on the Earth. The second most common form of the water molecule on our planet is ice. If all our planet's ice melted, sea-level would rise by about 70 meters.​







Water is also essential for life. Water is the major constituent of almost all life forms. Most animals and plants contain more than 60% water by volume. Without water life would probably never have developed on our planet.​











Water has a very simple atomic structure. This structure consists of two hydrogen atoms bonded to one oxygen atom (*Figure 8a-1*). The nature of the atomic structure of water causes its molecules to have unique electrochemical properties. The hydrogen side of the water molecule has a slight positive charge (see *Figure 8a-1*). On the other side of the molecule a negative charge exists. This molecular polarity causes water to be a powerful solvent and is responsible for its strong *surface tension* (for more information on these two properties see the discussion below).​
























*Figure 8a-1*: The atomic structure of a water (or dihydrogen monoxide) molecule consists of two hydrogen (*H*) atoms joined to one oxygen (*O*) atom. The unique way in which the hydrogen atoms are attached to the oxygen atom causes one side of the molecule to have a negative charge and the area in the opposite direction to have a positive charge. The resulting polarity of charge causes molecules of water to be attracted to each other forming strong molecular bonds.​






When the water molecule makes a physical *phase change* its molecules arrange themselves in distinctly different patterns (*Figure 8a-2*). The molecular arrangement taken by ice (the solid form of the water molecule) leads to an increase in volume and a decrease in density. Expansion of the water molecule at freezing allows ice to float on top of liquid water.​

















































*Figure 8a-2*: The three diagrams above illustrate the distinct arrangement patterns of water molecules as they change their physical state from ice to water to gas. Frozen water molecules arrange themselves in a particular highly organized rigid geometric pattern that causes the mass of water to expand and to decrease in density. The diagram above shows a slice through a mass of ice that is one molecule wide. In the liquid phase, water molecules arrange themselves into small groups of joined particles. The fact that these arrangements are small allows liquid water to move and flow. Water molecules in the form of a gas are highly charged with energy. This high energy state causes the molecules to be always moving reducing the likelihood of bonds between individual molecules from forming.​





Water has several other unique physical properties. These properties are:​




​
Water has a high *specific heat*. Specific heat is the amount of energy required to change the temperature of a substance. Because water has a high specific heat, it can absorb large amounts of heat energy before it begins to get hot. It also means that water releases heat energy slowly when situations cause it to cool. Water's high specific heat allows for the moderation of the Earth's climate and helps organisms regulate their body temperature more effectively.
Water in a pure state has a neutral *pH*. As a result, pure water is neither *acidic* nor *basic*. Water changes its pH when substances are dissolved in it. Rain has a naturally acidic pH of about 5.6 because it contains natural derived carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide.
Water *conducts* heat more easily than any liquid except mercury. This fact causes large bodies of liquid water like lakes and oceans to have essentially a uniform vertical temperature profile.
Water molecules exist in liquid form over an important range of temperature from 0 - 100° Celsius. This range allows water molecules to exist as a liquid in most places on our planet.
Water is a universal *solvent*. It is able to dissolve a large number of different chemical compounds. This feature also enables water to carry solvent nutrients in *runoff*, *infiltration*, *groundwater flow*, and living organisms.
Water has a high *surface tension* (*Figures 8a-3 *and* 8a-4*). In other words, water is adhesive and elastic, and tends to aggregate in drops rather than spread out over a surface as a thin film. This phenomenon also causes water to stick to the sides of vertical structures despite gravity's downward pull. Water's high surface tension allows for the formation of water droplets and waves, allows plants to move water (and dissolved nutrients) from their roots to their leaves, and the movement of blood through tiny vessels in the bodies of some animals.





















*Figure 8a-3*: The following illustration shows how water molecules are attracted to each other to create high surface tension. This property can cause water to exist as an extensive thin film over solid surfaces. In the example above, the film is two layers of water molecules thick.​











​














*Figure 8a-4*: The adhesive bonding property of water molecules allows for the formation of water droplets (Photo © 2004 Edward Tsang).

​






​
Water molecules are the only substance on Earth that exist in all three *physical states of matter*: *solid*, *liquid*, and *gas*. Incorporated in the changes of state are massive amounts of heat exchange. This feature plays an important role in the redistribution of heat energy in the Earth's atmosphere. In terms of heat being transferred into the atmosphere, approximately 3/4's of this process is accomplished by the evaporation and condensation of water.
The freezing of water molecules causes their mass to occupy a larger volume. When water freezes it expands rapidly adding about 9% by volume. Fresh water has a maximum density at around 4° Celsius (see *Table 8a-1*). Water is the only substance on this planet where the maximum density of its mass does not occur when it becomes solidified.






Source: Physical geography.net​

​[/QUOTE]

ost: 3683573, member: 143140"]Thank you. [/QUOTE]
Hey your a foctor


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## ebcrew (Apr 30, 2015)

So what household or local store bought product can help with "hard water"?


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## Dankfactory (May 9, 2015)

Apparently some are still under the impression that this is a "write up." All of the info contained in this thread, was, verbatim, simply cut and pasted and has no relevance to cannabis cultivation requirements. 

Just to reiterate before the "Hey Brah! Nice Write Up!!!!!!!!" party ensues. 

My tap is loaded with Chloramines.


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## Dankfactory (May 9, 2015)

ebcrew said:


> So what household or local store bought product can help with "hard water"?


Why would you want to avoid using Hard water? It's one of the best options for cannabis cultivation.


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## ebcrew (May 9, 2015)

Dankfactory said:


> Why would you want to avoid using Hard water? It's one of the best options for cannabis cultivation.


I posted that a while ago and i honestly dont remember why, it must of been something i read on here regarding hard water being bad.


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## Silky T (May 21, 2015)

HELP! I think I messed up. I've been adding a pinch of vinegar to my distilled water because it comes back too red on the pH meter without it, but it makes it a light yellow, which means low pH. I've been using it anyway and doesn't seem to cause a problem. But here's the problem...

I've been concerned that it's TOO LOW because it's below the lowest number which is 6.8. Soooo, long story short, I tried the baking soda trick. I put "just a pinch" in a half gallon of water. Now it's a color I can't figure out whether it's good or bad. (photo below). Well, on second look, it actually looks dead on 6.8. Is this okay for watering 3-week old babies?

Can anyone tell me what pH number this registers? I don't know if this water is the right pH or not. I'm not too fond of vinegars and baking sodas in my water, I'm actually experimenting. But I really didn't think _a pinch of baking soda_ could change a half gallon of water from light yellow to this! HELP! Before I burn my plants! Dang! I rotated that pH meter pic so you could read it without getting whiplash. Sorry, I don't know how it kicked back.

I've also sent along photos of my 3-week mark on my ladies. I've already messed one up experimenting and it's growing skinny and thin. I'm hoping she kicks back in.


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## Silky T (May 21, 2015)

Raise your hand if you feel like you're in science class.


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## Silky T (May 21, 2015)

blaze another1 said:


> got a ? on blue stone quarry water i live in a big blue stone area with pools of water you think thats good for watering.Having tryed it yet alway carried water long way thanx


What's the question?


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## Silky T (May 21, 2015)

doc111 said:


> Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".
> 
> 
> *What is "Hard Water"?*
> ...


Dankfactory- comments?


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## SSHZ (May 21, 2015)

To review, hard water can interfere with plants ability to absorb certain nutes. You can still have success with hard water, but it can and will become more difficult into flowering. Most hard water has calcium carbonate and mg carbonate, which is in a form that plants can't use. This eventually leads to calcium locking out (plants can't absorb) which then affects nitrogen uptake. It spirals downward from there.


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## Silky T (May 21, 2015)

SSHZ said:


> To review, hard water can interfere with plants ability to absorb certain nutes. You can still have success with hard water, but it can and will become more difficult into flowering. Most hard water has calcium carbonate and mg carbonate, which is in a form that plants can't use. This eventually leads to calcium locking out (plants can't absorb) which then affects nitrogen uptake. It spirals downward from there.


How can everyone be so downright personal and confident about water? I mean, some people live strickly by the rule of tap water only and hard water is okay to the other extreme that hard water can interfere with the plants ability to absorb certain nutes? How can each end of the spectrum have the same results? It's downright confusing to us newbies. I guess on one hand you can't go too wrong with your tap water as long as you let it sit for 24-48 hours first, but it's when you start with the problem that I'm having with trying to get the pH right, that it gets a bit overwhelming.


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## SSHZ (May 25, 2015)

Letting water sit for a period does only one thing- it lets the chlorine evaporate back into a gas. Other than that, it does nothing else to improve water's impurities.

Tap water in some parts of the country can be fine, while others can be terrible. That's why, unless you have your water tested and know what's in it- it's best NOT to use it without filtering it first. 

You are the perfect example why not to use plain tap water i.e. pH swings, heavy metals, arsenic, etc. You need to do more research and read further about this subject to understand what I'm telling you is 100% correct. Here's a good start:

http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education3/3-water-plants.htm


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## Silky T (May 25, 2015)

SSHZ said:


> Letting water sit for a period does only one thing- it lets the chlorine evaporate back into a gas. Other than that, it does nothing else to improve water's impurities.
> 
> Tap water in some parts of the country can be fine, while others can be terrible. That's why, unless you have your water tested and know what's in it- it's best NOT to use it without filtering it first.
> 
> ...


I said exactly that in a previous post in response someone else's post about tap water. I said there's no way of knowing what your tap water has in it unless you have it tested. Water varies even from one county to the next. I felt like it was going to hurt someone's feelings when I said it so I deleted it. The person had kinda been helping me with my grow so I didn't want to rock the boat. If you know what I mean. I'll check out that website now, thanks.


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## dcoukeking (Jun 4, 2015)

In nature water can naturally occur in three states; it can exist as a liquid (water), a gas (water vapour) and as a solid (ice). At standard temperatures and pressures, water exists in a state of dynamic equilibrium between it's liquid and gaseous states. Ice, the solid form of water, only exists at relatively low temperatures (below water's freezing point of zero degrees Celsius). 



Although under standard conditions water in its liquid state is the most commonly recognised form, it is not, theoretically the predicted state for water to exist in. If water's similarity to other analogous hydrides is considered then water should exist as a gas under standard conditions, and not as a liquid. For example hydrogen sulphide, which is chemically very similar to water, and is also a hydride, does not exist as a liquid under standard conditions, but as a gas. This property is a result of the polarity of water, described below, which leads to hydrogen bonding and strong interactions between water molecules.


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## squirt1961 (Jun 4, 2015)

doc111 said:


> What are Toal Dissolved Solids?
> 
> "Dissolved solids" refer to any minerals, salts, metals, cations or anions dissolved in water. This includes anything present in water other than the pure water (H20) molecule and suspended solids. (Suspended solids are any particles/substances that are neither dissolved nor settled in the water, such as wood pulp.)
> In general, the total dissolved solids concentration is the sum of the cations (positively charged) and anions (negatively charged) ions in the water.
> ...


So what should I want my TDS reading to be looks like lower number the better for my plants tested today 156ppm is that good I'm using distilled water in an aerogarden


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## KushyKari (Jun 22, 2015)

I used bottled water for the first few wks on this harvest. I didn't notice a change when I started using my hose water. I like to bend my hose so a lot of oxygen fills the bottle as I'm filling. I water by hand a gallon at a time. People think I'm crazy,but I love taking the time with my girls. I make sure the water ph is specific on the dot of what I want. I've heard it's bad to let tap water sit as well. Better to fill and use immediately. When your watering over 50 girls it's really hard to stick with bottled water. The hose is more logical. Much easier and cheaper


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## MickFoster (Jul 2, 2015)

Forgive me if this has already been covered - but after the first few pages of reading the info from the original thread starter I wasn't able to read over 600 more replies. My tap water does not have chlorine - our city converted to chloramines over 10 years ago. I understand that chloramines do not evaporate like chlorine and was wondering if it was still ok for a grow in coco as is or do I have to use r/o water. My tap water ppm is around 150.


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## Rrog (Aug 13, 2015)

Unless you are in a polluted area, rain = RO for our purposes 

If you happen to be growing in a natural soil, RO is groovy.


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## 2Hearts (Aug 14, 2015)

MickFoster said:


> Forgive me if this has already been covered - but after the first few pages of reading the info from the original thread starter I wasn't able to read over 600 more replies. My tap water does not have chlorine - our city converted to chloramines over 10 years ago. I understand that chloramines do not evaporate like chlorine and was wondering if it was still ok for a grow in coco as is or do I have to use r/o water. My tap water ppm is around 150.


My water company list their water as 4ppm/l chloramines or less (the whole chloramine/chloromides thing is confusing and little info). This seems such a low level and at this low level i doubt it causes any problems but without a decent scientific survey etc etc i wouldnt give it the all clear.

Of the top of my head it is produced in a few ways, my particular water company state that they do not add the chemical but that it forms in very low doses as the result of adding new ammonia chemical systems on top of the old trusted chlorine systems i.e. Chlorine compounds + Ammonia compounds = Chloramines. I believe you can just buy a premade chemical salt and drop it in as well.

It does break down over time but until that point it is absorbable by the plant as a chemical element, it seems a lot less worrying but could be a consideration in larger hydro res's if left to build up. My water company also advise not to use tap water for hydro, and aquarium but that it is harmless for humans and soil plants i.e. dont panic its still safe to water your lawn.

A real point is that many people with chloramines in their water grow great plants inside and out and there are a lot more harmfull chemicals like fluoride etc. On the other hand any decent aquatic plant grower or aquariumist would never touch tap water till it has passed through an RO machine, these guys need way tighter controls on ph, temp, nutrients and alkalinity and more so coral growers. 

I only know what i read on the stuff and peace of mind, an RO, machine round our parts cost £100


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## squirt1961 (Aug 17, 2015)

Does anyone know of an inexpensive RO system I can install myself. Distilled water was OK for just a few plants but next grow is gonna be biggger to impractical to use distilled water next time. Actually I guess I'm really looking for recommendations


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## ScrappyD (Aug 24, 2015)

From the few pages I read (couldn't read all 31 pages lol) it sounds like using tap water coming from a water softener is a bad idea due to the sodium/salt the water comes with. Do most people who have a water softener use other methods? In my area it would be considered odd for you to not have a softener because of how hard the water is. I've heard people say they use a hose, but if your hose is outside, how do you take water in the winter? If you still use the hose, do you get worried that your neighbours see you fill gallons of hose water every few days in the winter? And I'm also guessing you can still get Chloramine and other not great minerals in hose water as well?

I used to just buy the 5 gallon water jugs, though when you're in flower and feed each plant a gallon every other day or so, it gets pricey 


p.s. GREAT THREAD and GREAT INFO!


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## redzi (Sep 8, 2015)

I remember working at a small print shop years ago. They had to run "distilled" water in their printing press. What they used was a large filter that they leased ..it looked like a large extra fat industrial gas bottle about 5 feet high and twice as fat and it's shell made of fiberglass. It ran 110V through it and that electrical charge is what made solids stick to a membrane. Distilled water use to be a lot more expensive whey they actually heated it up to steam and condensed it back to water. I have just received a ppm meter along with chlorine test strips and I would just like to see what would happen running tap water through activated charcoal that has been used for odor control. The pellets are large and could be crushed to smaller size pieces...exposing surface area that has not attached itself to a contaminate. I just want to use soft chlorine free water to make teas with...the water around here comes from a lake with lots of lime stone.

I looked up local companies that supply filtration systems like the one some print shops use, they are some of the same companies that supply drinking water and dispensers to businesses. Just tell them you have a reef tank with expensive coral and need a compact system.


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## tick tack toe (Sep 9, 2015)

Need some advice from water people  In trying to learn why my grows never seem to work out, water is my next variable to figure out. In my grows, a few weeks into flower, my leave start turning. It looks like a mag or phosphorus deficiency. I watch my ph going in, I've tried lower feeds spacing regular feeds but still same thing. I added epsom salt last grow but sadly ... far too much. 

I've been researching my water (got an EC meter) and see that my base line is ec 0.7 and ph around 7.8. My city water supply says that I have 87.8mg/l of calcium and 13.5mg/l of magnesium. It is stated as hard water. 

How should I approch this? do I need a r/o filter ... should I just top up on mag with epsom salts ... and not screw up with too much  I'm growing in coco under LED lights.


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## 2Hearts (Sep 9, 2015)

Hard water ferts


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## squirt1961 (Sep 10, 2015)

2Hearts said:


> Hard water ferts


I just saw a whole house RO system for $99.00 I might buy it next payday. Price is pretty good I thought. I'll post my review here once installed and checked out


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## 2Hearts (Sep 10, 2015)

squirt1961 said:


> I just saw a whole house RO system for $99.00 I might buy it next payday. Price is pretty good I thought. I'll post my review here once installed and checked out


Yer they are about that for a small one here, getting very available for the hobbyist grower.


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## squirt1961 (Sep 10, 2015)

2Hearts said:


> Yer they are about that for a small one here, getting very available for the hobbyist grower.


Cool I'm in ne Ohio and our public water here sucks I'm definitely gonna get an RO system


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## Labs Dexter (Oct 13, 2015)

I missed some pages too. I buy mineral water is that any good the ph is 6.2 my plants seem to absorb the neuts better too but wondering if hard water is okay my tap ph is 7.3 and I know is hard because have to change kettle every 6 months or so.. Just a curiosity because my back is getting worse and carrying ten liters is painful.. Any thoughts


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## borbor (Oct 22, 2015)

I'm blessed with wonderful tap water, which is great for me, but I buy RO water at the store, those 5 gallon water cooler type containers cost me 10 bucks each, but now I have 4 and refill them for 39 cents a gallon whenever I feel like it, it's not expensive in the long run, and you pretty much know that the molecules in your water are hydrogen and oxygen at a 2 to 1 ratio and that's it, which is nice, just a pain in the ass to measure out gallons at a time to distribute nutrients without leaving nutrient solution unused sitting around for a couple of days, I waste a little pouring into one gallon containers over my bathtub


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## squirt1961 (Oct 28, 2015)

borbor said:


> I'm blessed with wonderful tap water, which is great for me, but I buy RO water at the store, those 5 gallon water cooler type containers cost me 10 bucks each, but now I have 4 and refill them for 39 cents a gallon whenever I feel like it, it's not expensive in the long run, and you pretty much know that the molecules in your water are hydrogen and oxygen at a 2 to 1 ratio and that's it, which is nice, just a pain in the ass to measure out gallons at a time to distribute nutrients without leaving nutrient solution unused sitting around for a couple of days, I waste a little pouring into one gallon containers over my bathtub


Good idea I'll have to check it out I've been buying distilled water for 88 cents a gallon but can't find 5gallon containers for sale I think I'll look into 5 gallon containers of RO just have to find em. I also mix my nutes in one gal jugs and sometimes they sit for a few days till I do my water change. Does this effect the mix by sitting around? In the meantime I guess I should mix nutes right when I'm ready to use. Always did it early so I had plenty of time to adjust PH if needed.


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## Rrog (Oct 28, 2015)

Supercharged water, eh? 30% more growth, huh? 

Better have a really good looking label lol


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Oct 28, 2015)

Rrog said:


> Supercharged water, eh? 30% more growth, huh?
> 
> Better have a really good looking label lol




I think it's good for spider mites as well.


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## Rrog (Oct 28, 2015)

See! THAT'S a great looking label. The fact that it's bullshit becomes irrelevant. 

It would be much better to buy bullshit, in fact. 

How good is it when your product is worse than bullshit ??


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## The Nine (Nov 1, 2015)

Not read the whole thread due to the enormous size..has anyone used one of these?
http://h2o3inc.com
Sounds like what people are looking for round here


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## Ali Baba (Nov 2, 2015)

http://phys.org/news/2015-11-pineapple-genome-insight-photosynthesis-drought-tolerant.html


An New form of Photocinthesis that could double the amount of water a plant can keep. Making it more durable and less likely to die from drought. Something that is trying to be genetically induced to plants in the future.... I want it NOW.


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## Rrog (Nov 2, 2015)

I'm not into changing DNA and eating it


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Nov 2, 2015)

Did you mean Photosynthesis?

If so what new "form" are you talking about? As far as I know the only correct definition of Photosynthesis is: 

*The complex process by which carbon dioxide, water, and certain inorganic salts are converted into carbohydrates by green plants, algae, and certain bacteria, using energy from the sun and chlorophyll.*

Which part of that has anything to do with how much water a plant can process?

If we're talking GMO you won't find many on this board in favor of it.


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## Ali Baba (Nov 2, 2015)

its the changing of plants pores closing at day and opening at night. Normal plants with out this form of pineapple photosynthesis is excreting water un necessarily. Causing them to die in hotter weather.


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## Rrog (Nov 2, 2015)

This sounds like bullshit. Let's figure out what's better for a plant. 'cause we know better

And then let's smoke and eat this frankensteined thing. Who's first?


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## squirt1961 (Nov 8, 2015)

This might've been answered before but I can't find it.

Question: my tap water after sitting in gallon jugs left open for a few days has a TDS reading of 172. Is this OK for use in hydro system? I've been using distilled water but with 4 plants each in a 5 gallon dwc with drippers is getting to be inconvenient and I can't afford an RO system at this time or in near future because of limited budget.


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## Dankfactory (Nov 14, 2015)

squirt1961 said:


> This might've been answered before but I can't find it.
> 
> Question: my tap water after sitting in gallon jugs left open for a few days has a TDS reading of 172. Is this OK for use in hydro system? I've been using distilled water but with 4 plants each in a 5 gallon dwc with drippers is getting to be inconvenient and I can't afford an RO system at this time or in near future because of limited budget.


You can use hard water in hydro. I would never attempt it in DWC, especially without a chiller!!! But to each his own. GH has a hard water line, however youll be directly supporting Monsanto buy buying any of their products which is an immediate dealbreaker for me personally, not to mention their gear is simply run of the mill in regards to quality.

Im in DWC and personally would never, ever run anything but RO with a chiller in line. My res never gets above 67 degrees. I havent seen the slightest hint of pythium in ages, not to mention cool water holds exponentially more D02 than a sans chiller system, resulting in _drastically_ heavier yields. 
Honestly if you cant afford a chiller, much less a hundred dollar RO unit, I would go to dirt.


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## GregtheGrowernotShower (Jan 4, 2016)

Hey everybody can someone please help me identify the problem with these leaves?

http://m.imgur.com/a/ubrJe


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## Labs Dexter (Jan 4, 2016)

It looks like start of calcium buddy,

*Calcium(Ca)*
Plants lacking Calcium balance can result in the soil becoming too acidic. Calcium deficiency can be fixed by foliar feeding (adding liquid fertilizer directly to plant leaves) one teaspoon of dolomatic lime per quart of water until the plant's condition approves







Hope it helps


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## GregtheGrowernotShower (Jan 4, 2016)

Labs Dexter said:


> It looks like start of calcium buddy,
> 
> *Calcium(Ca)*
> Plants lacking Calcium balance can result in the soil becoming too acidic. Calcium deficiency can be fixed by foliar feeding (adding liquid fertilizer directly to plant leaves) one teaspoon of dolomatic lime per quart of water until the plant's condition approves.


Thanks, should I trim the leaf most effected and begin treatment?


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## Labs Dexter (Jan 4, 2016)

GregtheGrowernotShower said:


> Thanks, should I trim the leaf most effected and begin treatment?


I would say yes because I'm a fan of defoliation lmao.

but being a good man and telling you the right thing( is to let them just fall off, I don't think it will recover but please don't remove) just cut the dead tips off like when doing a clone. 

So what ever energy that leaf has left can be reused.

And( start treatment asap mate), new growth should be greener and happy.

Good luck, and if you put it in the plant problems thread you will get a better answer from someone who has had this issue before and get a better results in help. 

I buy bottled water so I eliminate the cal mag issues. I haven't had it really to know how to help you properly... I don't know if I made sense loool


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## GregtheGrowernotShower (Jan 4, 2016)

Labs Dexter said:


> I would say yes because I'm a fan of defoliation lmao.
> 
> but being a good man and telling you the right thing( is to let them just fall off, I don't think it will recover but please don't remove) just cut the dead tips off like when doing a clone.
> 
> ...


Yeah mate it makes sense. Thanks a lot you helped more than enough!! I will begin treatment first thing in the morning when I get the dolomite. I posted to plant problems forum but noone responded, probably most people are sleeping. Thank you again!


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## Labs Dexter (Jan 4, 2016)

GregtheGrowernotShower said:


> Yeah mate it makes sense. Thanks a lot you helped more than enough!! I will begin treatment first thing in the morning when I get the dolomite. I posted to plant problems forum but noone responded, probably most people are sleeping. Thank you again!


You can try UK growers thread the one with sarcasm on it there are good bunch there and allways willing to help mate if any thing else comes up or just banter lol


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## GregtheGrowernotShower (Jan 4, 2016)

Labs Dexter said:


> You can try UK growers thread the one with sarcasm on it there are good bunch there and allways willing to help mate if any thing else comes up or just banter lol


Awesome thanks for the info, I have just one more question, sorry for posting here but couldnt find a way to pm you. 

Should I add nutriets to the soil or what should I do if its too acidid? Im going to apply that dolomite/water mixture directly to the leaves but wont it come back if I dont fix the soil?


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## potenttoker (Jan 5, 2016)

Some good information in here infact the whole forum is full of great info!


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## squirt1961 (Jan 5, 2016)

Yes it is there is so much info just on this site. Very helpful especially the members this is a great place for info and personal help.
I can't say it enough thank you all for all the help in the past and future if it wasn't for rollitup I would've had every plant I grew would've died or at least not been harvestable.
The members on here are so helpful.
Keep growing and Sharing


----------



## Big Mike2016 (Jan 9, 2016)

Good Thread


----------



## greenghost420 (Jan 17, 2016)

this is a great thread! i didnt feel like thumbing thru to see if anyone threw one of these up so ill do the honors...


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## Nevertell1987 (Jan 22, 2016)

So my question is has anyone use sulfur water before that eggs smelling water, will it make buds smell bad or taste bad if used close to end? Here is my problem I run well water through a charcoal filter from well but didn't replace it so my water smells like sulfur but it also get ran through reverse osmosis as well, so the water is like 2 ppm but has smell still, good or bad any thoughts. Just seen great but can anybody give me straight answer please?


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## bravedave (Jan 22, 2016)

A little sulphur smell has worked just fine for me. Plants like it. No they will not cause your weed to smell like it.


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## Nevertell1987 (Jan 22, 2016)

bravedave said:


> A little sulphur smell has worked just fine for me. Plants like it. No they will not cause your weed to smell like it.


Thanks so you have used before that's good for me


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## Infinite Whisper (Mar 12, 2016)

*Hi, J/W if Spring water is alright to use to water my plants ?*
Ive read a bit about distilled water but not much about spring water ?
Also, what are the differences ?


----------



## bravedave (Mar 12, 2016)

Infinite Whisper said:


> *Hi, J/W if Spring water is alright to use to water my plants ?*
> Ive read a bit about distilled water but not much about spring water ?
> Also, what are the differences ?


No to "distilled". Most spring water will be just fine. Spring water can contain beneficial chemicals. Depending onthe spring you may want to check PH initially. Distilled is rather sterile and I think is low in O2.


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## southern kush (Mar 18, 2016)

So your saying do not use distilled water? I'm new at this and have purchased a box from BC Northern Lights, so far I am not impressed. I just lost my 3rd batch, I'm thinking bout changing this bastard to dirt. Hydro can't be for a beginner?


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## bravedave (Mar 18, 2016)

southern kush said:


> So your saying do not use distilled water? I'm new at this and have purchased a box from BC Northern Lights, so far I am not impressed. I just lost my 3rd batch, I'm thinking bout changing this bastard to dirt. Hydro can't be for a beginner?


Promix peat mix is easy. Yeah, don't use distilled. If you are going to buy water go with Walmart RO


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## southern kush (Mar 18, 2016)

bravedave said:


> Promix peat mix is easy. Yeah, don't use distilled. If you are going to buy water go with Walmart RO


So the Promix is or is not for Hydro? And thanks for the info.


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## bravedave (Mar 18, 2016)

southern kush said:


> So the Promix is or is not for Hydro? And thanks for the info.


Not. Its peat based medium.


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## squirt1961 (Mar 18, 2016)

I used distilled water for my first 4 hydro grows with no problems I've since switched to RO I got a whole house system for $125.00 at home depot


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## PerfectGrower (Apr 12, 2016)

Any new or unknown water source should be sent to a lab. To get it analyzed will cost you around $50. 


Better safe than sorry in a lot of cases


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## Martin von Strauss (Apr 26, 2016)

So will leaving your resovoir open for 24 to 48 hours after filling with tap water, soften the water, or will it just get rid of the chlorine. And if I don't let chlorine evaporate and use hard water on my plants, what's the worst that could happen?


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## Martin von Strauss (Apr 27, 2016)

No worries bro, I use tap too. Just let it sit out to remove the chlorine, and even out to room temp. You and your girls should be fine


----------



## HazednConfused (Apr 27, 2016)

T


Martin von Strauss said:


> No worries bro, I use tap too. Just let it sit out to remove the chlorine, and even out to room temp. You and your girls should be fine


Thanks bro, that's good to know.


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## MisterBlah (Apr 30, 2016)

Martin von Strauss said:


> So will leaving your resovoir open for 24 to 48 hours after filling with tap water, soften the water, or will it just get rid of the chlorine. And if I don't let chlorine evaporate and use hard water on my plants, what's the worst that could happen?


It will reduce the chlorine concentration, that's it. 

If you use hard water, just use a fertilizer that is lower in calcium and magnesium.


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## Lostnz (May 7, 2016)

well here's my TAP WATER WHAT YOU GUYS THINK?


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## squirt1961 (May 7, 2016)

Lostnz said:


> View attachment 3675416well here's my TAP WATER WHAT YOU GUYS THINK?


Not that bad i have same meter i like all the options on it


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## AnimalMother1974 (Jul 6, 2016)

squirt1961 said:


> I just saw a whole house RO system for $99.00 I might buy it next payday. Price is pretty good I thought. I'll post my review here once installed and checked out


With that $99 you can by 99 gallons of distilled water from the Walmart


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## squirt1961 (Jul 6, 2016)

My RDWC system uses 38gallons each water change so that doesn't go very far. RO system is still on my wish list. I keep adding lights and more accessories plus keeping nute supply steady pretty much been taking up my budget for now.


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## ThaMagnificent (Jul 10, 2016)

My ppm 500 reading for tap is 110. Not bad but I think I have some signs of chlorine toxicity on my plants so I bought a tall boy to filter the Chloramine. We'll see...


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## AnimalMother1974 (Jul 10, 2016)

ThaMagnificent said:


> My ppm 500 reading for tap is 110. Not bad but I think I have some signs of chlorine toxicity on my plants so I bought a tall boy to filter the Chloramine. We'll see...


Your city doesnt use chlorine?


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## ThaMagnificent (Jul 10, 2016)

AnimalMother1974 said:


> Your city doesnt use chlorine?


Chlorine is the old way. They found Chloramine preserves the water longer because it doesn't do what chlorine does...evaporate


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## AnimalMother1974 (Jul 10, 2016)

ThaMagnificent said:


> Chlorine is the old way. They found Chloramine preserves the water longer because it doesn't do what chlorine does...evaporate


What city are you in?


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## ThaMagnificent (Jul 10, 2016)

AnimalMother1974 said:


> What city are you in?


Chicago


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## thewanderingjack (Jul 30, 2016)

So much fuss... obviously the better the water the better you can grow your plants... at the same time, like all other aspects of growing... cannabis is very forgiving.

Yes, severe problems with your water can have truly terrible effects on your plants, as it can on your body (even showering in really "hard" water dries up the skin, much less drinking it), but small level of contaminants is "ok."

I use straight city water, I don't even wait for the chlorine to evaporate. I know I have a significant mineral/salt content in my water because I've put a cup of it on my heater and seen the residue. I know there's chlorine and flourine... not sure what else might be added plus in the pipes... my plants are doing well (considering all the other issues they've faced,,, like temps in the 50s-60s).

So far the one plant I harvested was great (despite being harvested early, only 6 weeks veg, 4 weeks flowers... got almost 1/2 oz)... no harsh taste or anything like that (despite a quick dry/no cure and slight Nitrogen burn from my last feeding).

Certainly use the best resources that you can... it never hurts (except it seems people who try too hard _can_ spend A LOT more money and encounter more problems), and though I would agree that the best resources will get you the best product... you can grow great bud even with less than ideal conditions.

For my next grow I plan to use rain/collected fog water as much as possible, as my area gets a lot, both for plant health and because it'll save me a few bucks.


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## Rrog (Jul 30, 2016)

Rainwater in Chicago... Hard to say


----------



## GreatwhiteNorth (Jul 30, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Rainwater in Chicago... Hard to say


I hear it can be high in Lead.


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## Douglas.Curtis (Aug 2, 2016)

I've used reverse osmosis water in hydroponics for 15+ years. I cook with it, drink it and use it for drinking water for my pets.

It's the only water I'll use with hydro due to it being clean and not affecting pH. Clean hydro starts with r/o clean water.


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## 4nikator (Oct 20, 2016)

Is rain a good source of water? 

My tap water is 7.6 and my rain barrel water is 6.8 to 7.0. Now misting and watering with rain and wonder if it is best source?


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## Loudpakker219 (Oct 22, 2016)

doc111 said:


> Now that we've discussed the different types of water purification growers use I want to talk about some of the myths and facts about water.
> 
> A lot of people let their water sit out for a period of time, usually 24 hrs to a few days. Some people run an airstone in their water as they are letting it sit. This does a couple of things. Chlorine evaporates out of water pretty quickly since chlorine is a gas at room temp. An airstone can help this chlorine evaporate a little quicker and oxygenates the water at the same time. Letting water sit out doesn't do much to eliminate Chloramine. Chloramine is a newer chemical used to treat municipal water supplies. It's basically a combination of Chlorine and Ammonia. It doesn't evaporate so filtering with a brita or some other type of carbon filter is necessary to remove it. Reverse osmosis also removes chloramine.
> 
> ...


Whats good ?


----------



## Nic Barlor (Nov 8, 2016)

Hi, I am looking to buy a 2-stage water deionizer that pushes my water through a carbon filter and then some "resin" filter.
The seller says the water comes out at around 6.8 pH, that I can get up to 10L/h (2.64 gal/h) from the filter, and that the deionizing filter can handle up to 350L of water before needing to be replaced.

My city's tap water isn't really that hard (never measured the EC/TDS, but I don't have a lot/any mineral deposits in my sinks/shower).
Would this be a worthy investment (for $34.40 + shipping) for watering plants in coco-coir? Would I have to give the plants a CalMag supplement at some point? Would I have to give them CalMag regardless of deionization?

Thanks in advance for helpin' out a noob!


----------



## A.K.A. Overgrowem (Nov 8, 2016)

Nic Barlor said:


> Hi, I am looking to buy a 2-stage water deionizer that pushes my water through a carbon filter and then some "resin" filter.
> The seller says the water comes out at around 6.8 pH, that I can get up to 10L/h (2.64 gal/h) from the filter, and that the deionizing filter can handle up to 350L of water before needing to be replaced.
> 
> My city's tap water isn't really that hard (never measured the EC/TDS, but I don't have a lot/any mineral deposits in my sinks/shower).
> ...


Rain.


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## Nic Barlor (Nov 8, 2016)

A.K.A. Overgrowem said:


> Rain.


Okay, I live in an apartment with a 4'/5' deep balcony, so I could theoretically put a big 200L (or a 50L) plastic drum out there and create a rainwater collecting system, but what about when it doesn't rain?
The upcoming summer months here are very wet, but that still doesn't assure me a water supply during the drier winter months.

Edit: thanks for the tip.


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## Rrog (Nov 8, 2016)

If you can't use your municipal water, get a simple RO system.


----------



## A.K.A. Overgrowem (Nov 8, 2016)

Nic Barlor said:


> Okay, I live in an apartment with a 4'/5' deep balcony, so I could theoretically put a big 200L (or a 50L) plastic drum out there and create a rainwater collecting system, but what about when it doesn't rain?
> The upcoming summer months here are very wet, but that still doesn't assure me a water supply during the drier winter months.
> 
> Edit: thanks for the tip.


That is when I fill in with $.25 a gal. RO. water from a machine


Nic Barlor said:


> Hi, I am looking to buy a 2-stage water deionizer that pushes my water through a carbon filter and then some "resin" filter.
> The seller says the water comes out at around 6.8 pH, that I can get up to 10L/h (2.64 gal/h) from the filter, and that the deionizing filter can handle up to 350L of water before needing to be replaced.
> 
> My city's tap water isn't really that hard (never measured the EC/TDS, but I don't have a lot/any mineral deposits in my sinks/shower).
> ...


I grow in soil, that said. I use good ferts and depending on strain often do not have to supplement with cal.-mag.. Using RO. water with brand X Fertz. I would say needing to supplement is more probable than not (watch your plants closely). Untested tap water can fool U, tap water leaves no build up in my area, yet tests out at above 380 ppm. I collect all the rain water I can/need for my 2 plant grow, at any storm. I store it in larger dark wine bottles with corks ( I got from a resteraunt ) in dark under kitchen counter. Good luck.


----------



## Nic Barlor (Nov 8, 2016)

Rrog said:


> If you can't use your municipal water, get a simple RO system.


I've looked into that, but I can't find a new RO system for under $250 or even used for under $188 where I live. Plus, my budget can't really accommodate one. :/



A.K.A. Overgrowem said:


> That is when I fill in with $.25 a gal. RO. water from a machine
> 
> I grow in soil, that said. I use good ferts and depending on strain often do not have to supplement with cal.-mag.. Using RO. water with brand X Fertz. I would say needing to supplement is more probable than not (watch your plants closely). Untested tap water can fool U, tap water leaves no build up in my area, yet tests out at above 380 ppm. I collect all the rain water I can/need for my 2 plant grow, at any storm. I store it in larger dark wine bottles with corks ( I got from a resteraunt ) in dark under kitchen counter. Good luck.


Once I get an EC/TDS meter + pH meter, I'll collect some rainwater and see what I'm working with. I live in a very polluted city, so let's see..
And I'll test the tap water, evidently.


----------



## A.K.A. Overgrowem (Nov 8, 2016)

Nic Barlor said:


> I've looked into that, but I can't find a new RO system for under $250 or even used for under $188 where I live. Plus, my budget can't really accommodate one. :/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 All the crap comes down in the first 10 mins. of a rain. Wait a bit then put out your buckets.


----------



## Nic Barlor (Nov 8, 2016)

A.K.A. Overgrowem said:


> All the crap comes down in the first 10 mins. of a rain. Wait a bit then put out your buckets.


Oh yeah, good point. Thanks


----------



## Alexroller (Nov 9, 2016)

ΑΝΥΟΝΕ.... i have 4 ladies in flowering mode...i transplanted to smartpots...and i started feeding nutrients....i need help... do i feed them instead of watering...or do it water with tap water and then feed and then tap water??? i mean is there a schedule?? or can i feed every day like i water??? 

I also would like to know if i mix the nutrients with tap water or distilled one??? thanks in advance...


----------



## A.K.A. Overgrowem (Nov 9, 2016)

Alexroller said:


> ΑΝΥΟΝΕ.... i have 4 ladies in flowering mode...i transplanted to smartpots...and i started feeding nutrients....i need help... do i feed them instead of watering...or do it water with tap water and then feed and then tap water??? i mean is there a schedule?? or can i feed every day like i water???
> 
> I also would like to know if i mix the nutrients with tap water or distilled one??? thanks in advance...


Read, read, read, You have a long way to go.


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## Rrog (Nov 9, 2016)

And start a new thread instead of hijacking this one. You'll get more help


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## GroDank101 (Nov 12, 2016)

Is R/O water or Carbon Filtered water best?


----------



## cobshopgrow (Feb 12, 2017)

RO Water, as that is 0ppm (or near to), carbon filtered should be just the ion exchange, CA , MG ions exhanged to something else, mostly NA.
But there is one type filter who do CA to MG.

Edit: Carbon filter is just , filter, no ion exchange)
Wrong info from me!

RO is still 0 ppm


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## squirt1961 (Feb 12, 2017)

RO is the best since closest to 0 ppms


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## Rrog (Feb 12, 2017)

RO is most like (unpolluted) rainwater


----------



## Flowki (Mar 6, 2017)

Rrog said:


> RO is most like (unpolluted) rainwater


Natural rain water is 0ppm?


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## Douglas.Curtis (Mar 6, 2017)

Flowki said:


> Natural rain water is 0ppm?


The further away you get from people/manufacturing, the cleaner the rain water is. Lots of places have chemicals in the rain water.


----------



## Flowki (Mar 6, 2017)

Douglas.Curtis said:


> The further away you get from people/manufacturing, the cleaner the rain water is. Lots of places have chemicals in the rain water.


I see thnx


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## Rrog (Mar 6, 2017)

Flowki said:


> Natural rain water is 0ppm?


Rain and RO are close. Neither are truly pure, and have miscellaneous insignificant ions in there. Both are pH neutral.


----------



## Flowki (Mar 6, 2017)

Rrog said:


> Rain and RO are close. Neither are truly pure, and have miscellaneous insignificant ions in there. Both are pH neutral.


Right, I dunno why but I always assumed water had a little but of X minerals in it, aLmost like it's raining calmag ;p. I feel dumb now ^^.

On a side question. Collecting rain water with a barrel hooked upto a drain pipe etc. how safe is this type of water to use?, I'd imagine the rain water would pick up certain things when running off the roof or through the gutter system and also would it not stagnate if left in a barrel for too long?.
Have been meaning to get around to collecting some rain water but that's what puts me off.


----------



## Rrog (Mar 6, 2017)

Flowki said:


> On a side question. Collecting rain water with a barrel hooked upto a drain pipe etc. how safe is this type of water to use?, I'd imagine the rain water would pick up certain things when running off the roof or through the gutter system and also would it not stagnate if left in a barrel for too long?.
> Have been meaning to get around to collecting some rain water but that's what puts me off.


Any water with organic material in it will start to decompose and grow algae. But fresh rainwater would only be limited by air pollution in your area.


----------



## Flowki (Mar 7, 2017)

Rrog said:


> Any water with organic material in it will start to decompose and grow algae. But fresh rainwater would only be limited by air pollution in your area.


So would keeping it in the dark and using within a week be fool proof?.


----------



## Rrog (Mar 7, 2017)

I think you'll be fine if it's a clean pail / drum and dark, as you said.


----------



## monty thiessen (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks for this informational and detailed post . ı ejoy reading


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## kanda (Mar 29, 2017)

What effect does flouride have?


----------



## Rrog (Mar 29, 2017)

It sucks


----------



## Jacobson Wyatt (Apr 3, 2017)

I trust that the three most critical components that exist are nitrogen, carbon and oxygen. Nitrogen is to a great degree significant in light of the fact that it is such a huge piece of the nourishment web. Carbon is essential since it is additionally some portion of the sustenance web because of the way that it assumes such an imperative part in the structure of every living thing and numerous nonliving things. Carbon additionally gives our common fuel. Oxygen is critical in light of the fact that it is basic in many procedures that empower life and in the change of vitality. Oxygen can likewise consolidate with such a variety of various components to shape various mixes. 

Nitrogen is indispensable in our reality. Around four fifths of the air we inhale is nitrogen. In particular, nitrogen is a standout amongst the most essential components since it is the base of the sustenance web and it is included in a principal cycle. Free nitrogen noticeable all around is consumed by plants and changed over to plant proteins. It is then eaten by creatures that change over it to creature proteins and return it to the dirt as nitrogen waste. At that point bacterial activity causes the nitrogen mixes to end up noticeably free nitrogen once more. Subsequently, plants require nitrogen to survive, the creatures require the plant proteins to survive, and we thusly require creatures and plants to survive.


----------



## spankysmith87 (Apr 12, 2017)

Hello Everyone

True said , water plays very important role in everyone life . Without water no one can live on this earth as well as plants too.

Great Post !


----------



## Graz (Apr 29, 2017)

I wish our good Dr111 well. I have noticed that he has not posted in a while. I just completed all 697 posts i this thread. Very good information. I believe I will be mixing my R/O and tap water for my girls


----------



## TheHeat (May 4, 2017)

What is the TLDR version of the first posts?


----------



## JanieWilliams (May 18, 2017)

Water is the really very essential element in human life.


----------



## Lil Kai (May 18, 2017)

Loving this thread, water is totally overlooked by some!


----------



## stnr420 (Jun 8, 2017)

Ive been using recycled dehumidifier water for years...7 ppm 6.8-7 ph


----------



## jensenbeach1 (Jun 14, 2017)

I have some plants in soil that I have been giving nothing but RO water to. I will be moving outside in next week or two using well water with a ppm of about 450. I was curious as if there were such a thing as hardening off a plant to a water, say I start using tap water 200-250 (after 24 hours of course) to get the plant used to heavy metals or excess stuff it may not need. Not sure if this is necessary or im thinking too much into it. I just like to gradually ease them into a change i feel 0 to 450 is a major jump, especially if i start adding nutrients


----------



## Swims_GD (Jun 18, 2017)

jensen.... u think far too into this. lol

couple years, you'll leave them to do there thing.


----------



## jensenbeach1 (Jun 18, 2017)

Swims_GD said:


> jensen.... u think far too into this. lol
> 
> couple years, you'll leave them to do there thing.


Lmao just thinking of all the possibilities throwing it out there for someone for reassurance/answer any doubts. I have another question its been almost a week no watering no wilt and droop i didnt overwater in the beginning havent seen any sign of overwatering. Im wondering if im going too long in between waterings still regardless of how the plant looks ive been lifting the pots for weight and they seem to have some weight still. Ive just get small spells of thin yellow leaves seems to me then goes away. Could this be from "underwatering" though plant s have yet to ask for water?


----------



## jensenbeach1 (Jun 18, 2017)

I see growth and roots at the bottom it doesnt seem stunted at all


----------



## Swims_GD (Jun 19, 2017)

recurring yellowing sounds like your on your nitrogen threshold. 

try and water less more often, the top half of your soil takes the water and nutrients first, i would figure if your pots are taking a while to dry out your top half of soil is gonna be really dry by the time you water next.

if its bone dry your plant isn't taking up any nutrients from the top half, so any nitrogen is unavailable. i would imagine that not very good for the bacteria and micro organisms either. once you find the style your plants love, stick to it. 

if you have any problems after that, or you've changed it up a bit, you have a 'base regime' to go back too that you know your plants will thrive on.

imo. up the N/ just slightly to stop the recurring yellowing and water with less but more often.

feeling pretty stoned right now so im hoping this all makes sense because i feel like im rambling a lot


----------



## jensenbeach1 (Jun 19, 2017)

Swims_GD said:


> recurring yellowing sounds like your on your nitrogen threshold.
> 
> try and water less more often, the top half of your soil takes the water and nutrients first, i would figure if your pots are taking a while to dry out your top half of soil is gonna be really dry by the time you water next.
> 
> ...


No it does, and it youre right it gets bone dry on the top sometimes i add very little to the top just to moisten it up. Ive heard microorganisms only live on 2 inches and it needs to stay moist been trying to figure out how people keep that possible. I agree I need to water more often and less I am shocked they are lasting this long w.o more water especially w.o showing signs of overwatering. I think the issue was I usually soak the soil before i transplant and it was the first watering since then probably wasnt dried fully then i fully saturated again. With the roots just starting in the pot taking awhile for it to get used up. I was told its good to presoak to prevent dry pockets in the soil. I think youre right with the drying out and nute issue its probably why I keep think im having a recurring issue, just everytime it reaches that threshhhold. The roots looked great no brown or anything nice and full thats why I was curious if theres such a thing as underwatering while no signs of actual underwater actually occur(drooping anyways). Im going to get them on a less water more often starting this next watering. Im doing 1 dixie and 1/2 cup dixie water per 1 gallon pot pouring slowly and I typically then dont see any run off. May have just went too gung ho early on the first watering since transplant fully saturated it


----------



## Swims_GD (Jun 19, 2017)

as long as your plants are looking healthy you've usually nothing to worry about. just little tweaks here and there.

When your making your changes do them gradually and 1 at a time so you know if it starts to go wrong where to go back to that works.

treat each change like a restoration point on your computer.


----------



## PhenoMenal (Sep 22, 2017)

I have a Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2 question ... I know it has a lot of good uses, antimicrobial etc just to name one so Im not debating its usefulness, but I'm just confused about how it "provides extra oxygen" to the plant, when 99% of a hydro res is water/H2O? Especially when adding such a tiny amount which is typically just a few milliliters. (plus the roots already have good aeration in clay pebbles, coco, aeroponics etc, plus the res probably also has an air bubbler)


----------



## Rrog (Sep 22, 2017)

Your intuition is correct. It's a meaningless claim. Meaningless, in that it doesn't affect the plant's metabolism


----------



## splitopenmelt (Sep 30, 2017)

stnr420 said:


> Ive been using recycled dehumidifier water for years...7 ppm 6.8-7 ph


I've been using this lately with mixed results. Some plants show signs of cal/mag def. or nute lockout, not sure which. I give them aloe and coconut water every third watering and they all get the same compost tea so I'm not sure which factor I could be overlooking. I haven't tested my water, I have a meter on the way.

Any tips or tricks you can offer on treatment of recycled dehu water?


----------



## Kingrow1 (Sep 30, 2017)

splitopenmelt said:


> I've been using this lately with mixed results. Some plants show signs of cal/mag def. or nute lockout, not sure which. I give them aloe and coconut water every third watering and they all get the same compost tea so I'm not sure which factor I could be overlooking. I haven't tested my water, I have a meter on the way.
> 
> Any tips or tricks you can offer on treatment of recycled dehu water?


Aloe and coconut water lolol


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## splitopenmelt (Sep 30, 2017)

Kingrow1 said:


> Aloe and coconut water lolol


Yes. Aloe and coconut water. Quite a few use these for micros, enzymes, hormones and K. 

At a glance:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/coconut-water-yup.495589/


----------



## stnr420 (Sep 30, 2017)

splitopenmelt said:


> I've been using this lately with mixed results. Some plants show signs of cal/mag def. or nute lockout, not sure which. I give them aloe and coconut water every third watering and they all get the same compost tea so I'm not sure which factor I could be overlooking. I haven't tested my water, I have a meter on the way.
> 
> Any tips or tricks you can offer on treatment of recycled dehu water?


Well its pretty much like r/o water there is nothing in it....so i always ad 3-5 ml of cal mag per gallon of water to remineralize it along with my base nutes...but im in promix which is inert so your situation may be different...and the ph of your water is critical so that meter is a necessity imo....


----------



## Queefsniffer (Oct 2, 2017)

Man, so much to think about when growing, it's a little overwhelming really


----------



## John Levy (Oct 4, 2017)

Great post.


----------



## SureThing (Oct 4, 2017)

This thread has some wonderful information in it!


----------



## SureThing (Oct 4, 2017)

blaze another1 said:


> got a ? on blue stone quarry water i live in a big blue stone area with pools of water you think thats good for watering.Having tryed it yet alway carried water long way thanx


Great question!!!


----------



## Kerovan (Oct 4, 2017)

Queefsniffer said:


> Man, so much to think about when growing, it's a little overwhelming really


It's easy to overthink also. If you are growing in a good soil like Fox Farms don't worry about the water. If you are hydro, then you may want to think of your water, but it's not necessary in a decent soil.


----------



## Barbara H. Weiser (Oct 6, 2017)

Wow Great Thread. This thread is very informative and helps new comers to take care of their buds carefully. Thanks for such a awesome thread.


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## deno (Oct 6, 2017)

I've got well water, high in manganese. I collect rain water that tests PH of 5.5, so pretty pure. I've read that rain water has low buffering, so will not affect the PH of soils. I'm not sure I fully understand this. Should I be adjusting the PH, and what should be the target? Any comments on buffering? Hope this is an appropriate subject for this thread. I can't seem to find any good threads on PH.


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## Rrog (Oct 7, 2017)

If it's soil, use the water and go have a toke.


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## grassy007 (Oct 7, 2017)

How soon before the light cycle comes on do you people water? An hour? Two hours? Half an hour, 15 minutes? I've been watering about an hour before start of the next light cycle. I was thinking about watering 2 hours before the light comes on to give plenty of time for the roots to drink up. I'm in the flowering stage in soil. I let my soil get semi dry between waterings (3 days).


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## Puff_Dragon (Oct 8, 2017)

Thanks for the posts. Living in a hard water area I now collect my feeding water from my house gutters (via the classic water barrel) instead of letting it slip down the drains


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## Rrog (Oct 9, 2017)

Pollution aside, rain water = RO water, largely


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## Kerovan (Oct 9, 2017)

grassy007 said:


> How soon before the light cycle comes on do you people water? An hour? Two hours? Half an hour, 15 minutes? I've been watering about an hour before start of the next light cycle. I was thinking about watering 2 hours before the light comes on to give plenty of time for the roots to drink up. I'm in the flowering stage in soil. I let my soil get semi dry between waterings (3 days).


Never water before the lights come on, especially during flowering. During flowering the plants need their 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness. Uninterrupted is the key. I water when they need it and only during the light cycle.


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## DaNuggz (Oct 9, 2017)

Thanks for posting this! Definitely bookmarked. I used variety bottled waters but I always felt there were different complexities to them


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## grassy007 (Oct 9, 2017)

Kerovan said:


> Never water before the lights come on, especially during flowering. During flowering the plants need their 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness. Uninterrupted is the key. I water when they need it and only during the light cycle.


Just why so? Outdoor growers water just before the sun comes up. Why would opening a tent an hour before (for 5 minutes) for watering be so terrible. Do you really think a flowering plant is going to freak out because it got 11 hours and 30 minutes uninterrupted darkness instead of 12 hours every 3 days or so?


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## Kerovan (Oct 9, 2017)

grassy007 said:


> Just why so? Outdoor growers water just before the sun comes up. Why would opening a tent an hour before (for 5 minutes) for watering be so terrible. Do you really think a flowering plant is going to freak out because it got 11 hours and 30 minutes uninterrupted darkness instead of 12 hours every 3 days or so?


Yes, it can freak it out. It can cause the plant to become a hermaphrodite. And there is no benefit to watering in the dark. The only reason you might want to do that is if you use a sprinkler system, then you may not want the water drops on the leaves in direct sunlight where they can magnify the light causing a slight chance of a sunburn in that spot.


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## grassy007 (Oct 10, 2017)

Kerovan said:


> Yes, it can freak it out. It can cause the plant to become a hermaphrodite. And there is no benefit to watering in the dark. The only reason you might want to do that is if you use a sprinkler system, then you may not want the water drops on the leaves in direct sunlight where they can magnify the light causing a slight chance of a sunburn in that spot.


You're overstating your point about keeping plants in the dark for 12 hours (after flowering has started). You exclaim "no more no less, note even by one second" (paraphrased). Gimme a break. My flowers are female and are well on their way, and they get like 10-60 minutes off their sleep cycle when I water them before the lights come on. Understood?

I agree, that, at trying to start the flowering stage, if you grossly ignore the 12/12 rule during the flowering startup stage, your plant may turn into a hermaphrodite. However, if you keep said plant in total darkness for 36 hours straight (shortcut), it will go into the flowering stage. A good two weeks into flowering, it's not going to change to an hermaphrodite if they get less than exactly 12 hours of darkness. Wanna bet?

My plants are showing me they're not going anywhere but further into the flowering stage, as female. I firmly believe, that, I could interrupt their sleep cycle by 2 hours, and they still wouldn't go back to the vegetative stage (some do this on purpose to start their 8 month harvested plant into a new growing cycle, but more light time) nor will less than exactly 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness suddenly turn a healthy flowering plant into a hermaphrodite.

The determination of a plant to propagate its species is pretty powerful and overlooks many shortcomings to its environment.


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## Kerovan (Oct 10, 2017)

grassy007 said:


> You're overstating your point about keeping plants in the dark for 12 hours (after flowering has started). You exclaim "no more no less, note even by one second", gimme a break. My flowers are female and are well on their way, and they get like 10 minutes off their sleep cycle when I to water them before the lights come on. Gimme a break, will ya?


If you are such an expert then why did you even come here and ask the question? Gimme a break, I did not "exclaim no more no less, not even by one second". And you have given no reason whatsoever for doing it in the dark. It has absolutely no benefit, and does carry risk when you break up the light cycle in flowering. If you want to do it that way, fine. They are your plants and it's your time. Next time don't ask a question if you don't want to hear an opinion that differs from yours. Plus you asked about doing it a couple of hours before lights on, big difference than giving them light 10 minutes early.


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## grassy007 (Oct 11, 2017)

If such an expert....then, take it easy. You're uptight about growing weed in a tent.


What type questions are appropriate?

No light after midnight or your plants become hermaphrodites.

I was polling growers, not elite snobs.


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## Rrog (Oct 11, 2017)

This thread is about water not light cycles


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## grassy007 (Oct 11, 2017)

Sorry for my light cycle post and *water*ing. Back on subject.

"If there's magic on this earth, it is contained in water." Anonymous


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## SdMEDgrower (Oct 30, 2017)

Is 300ppm tap water considered Hard water? Is that perks per million low enough to feed to my plants with?? I use RO water but I hate having to fill up the 5 gal jugs everyday!


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## PeterCanna9 (Nov 13, 2017)

So true. Great info, thanks for sharing


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## Toxic Avenger (Nov 23, 2017)

SdMEDgrower said:


> Is 300ppm tap water considered Hard water? Is that perks per million low enough to feed to my plants with?? I use RO water but I hate having to fill up the 5 gal jugs everyday!


By water treatment standards it would be considered rather hard. I used to work in a conventional water treatment plant we would range typically anywhere between 120-180ppm. Anything under 100 ppm total hardness is soft by drinking water standards.

Sometimes minerals are added to water to prevent it from being aggressive and in other cases the source water is very hard and the cost of removing the calcium-magnesium /non carbonate hardnes is exorbitant.

RO or nano filtered water makes for a nice blank canvas. it's not like the Mg and Ca are plant available like they are in your ferts/ solution.


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## frizfrazjaz (Nov 23, 2017)

Toxic Avenger said:


> By water treatment standards it would be considered rather hard. I used to work in a conventional water treatment plant we would range typically anywhere between 120-180ppm. Anything under 100 ppm total hardness is soft by drinking water standards.
> 
> Sometimes minerals are added to water to prevent it from being aggressive and in other cases the source water is very hard and the cost of removing the calcium-magnesium /non carbonate hardnes is exorbitant.
> 
> RO or nano filtered water makes for a nice blank canvas. it's not like the Mg and Ca are plant available like they are in your ferts/ solution.


My tap runs between 15-25 ppm. I’m in soil and I read to add cal/mag until ppm’s are between 125-150. I don’t know if that’s a sweet spot for plants, but mine completely turned around in a week. I’d been having problems for about a year.


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## ANC (Nov 23, 2017)

Outdoors I like watering my plants before sunset, it gives the water the most time to sit around. As daytime humidity is low and it can get quite warm. This way the pot starts off nice and cold in the morning.

P.S. look up Grander water if you want to see something else.


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## Toxic Avenger (Nov 24, 2017)

frizfrazjaz said:


> My tap runs between 15-25 ppm. I’m in soil and I read to add cal/mag until ppm’s are between 125-150. I don’t know if that’s a sweet spot for plants, but mine completely turned around in a week. I’d been having problems for about a year.


How are you determining that your ppm are at 15 -20 ppm? You should have no trouble getting that info from your local water plant. Call there and ask for the average ph and total hardness. It may fluctuate seasonally a little but you should get a reliable base line and the numbers will be based on chemical titration and lab grade probes as opposed to grow store ppm pens. 15 -20 ppm is extremely soft for tap water. If it truly is that soft I'm guessing it is RO or nano (membrane).


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## frizfrazjaz (Nov 24, 2017)

Toxic Avenger said:


> How are you determining that your ppm are at 15 -20 ppm? You should have no trouble getting that info from your local water plant. Call there and ask for the average ph and total hardness. It may fluctuate seasonally a little but you should get a reliable base line and the numbers will be based on chemical titration and lab grade probes as opposed to grow store ppm pens. 15 -20 ppm is extremely soft for tap water. If it truly is that soft I'm guessing it is RO or nano (membrane).


I test it with my meter and it’s never went outside those readings. It basically is like ro, I guess. Is there anything I should add for drinking purposes?


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## Toxic Avenger (Nov 26, 2017)

free chlorine residual.


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## TheHero (Dec 4, 2017)

Hello. I bought a dehumidifier and it works great. But, why could condensate water be @ ph 5 or lower? I didnt wash tank, could that be a reason?


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## Rrog (Dec 4, 2017)

Your pH meter may have an issue with testing pure water


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## Toxic Avenger (Dec 4, 2017)

TheHero said:


> Hello. I bought a dehumidifier and it works great. But, why could condensate water be @ ph 5 or lower? I didnt wash tank, could that be a reason?


Ph is a measure of hydrogen ion consintration. Assuming the probe is representational, I'd say the condensate is acidic. Rain water is normally 5ish. Beer 3.

The probe isn't measuring the purity of the water.


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## TheHero (Dec 5, 2017)

I tested it with cheap ebay ph tester and aquarium water tester (adding red liquid to water, mixing and comparing mixed liquid with colors on datasheet which represent ph value.


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## Rrog (Dec 5, 2017)

It’s very pure water, so CO2 from the air is likely the culprit. A weak Carbonic Acid is all. 

Add a drop of anything and the pH will swing wildly, as there’s no pH buffering in such pure water


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## TheHero (Dec 5, 2017)

I have a room that vents only when temperature exceeds limit, so I use "sugar - yeast" CO2 booster, probably thats the reason why my destilled water is so acidic. But If i NEED to lower my ph, could I use this to mix with water I use for plants?


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## Rrog (Dec 5, 2017)

That water is only registering acidic because you have very few acidic molecules in all that water.

It’s essentially neutral. It’s not nearly acidic enough to influence anything. It’s very very weakly acidic.


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## Toxic Avenger (Dec 5, 2017)

TheHero said:


> I have a room that vents only when temperature exceeds limit, so I use "sugar - yeast" CO2 booster, probably thats the reason why my destilled water is so acidic. But If i NEED to lower my ph, could I use this to mix with water I use for plants?


Mix up equal parts and record the ph difference. Rrog is 100% correct regarding buffer. I'm not sure I'd agree that water with a ph as low as 4 is essentially neutral. Ph is a logarithmic scale so a difference of one unit is exponentially different(times ten) in terms of hydrogen ion consintration. 0-14 makes 7 neutral. I would speculate it will not be acidic enough to act as a ph down.


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## TheHero (Dec 6, 2017)

Ok, that`s understood. Are there any alternatives to ph down and up sollutions? I cannot buy those where I live and ebay takes it`s time.
And aproxximately how much will 250ml bottle from ebay/amazon will last? I mean, how much ML i need, on 5L bucket to lower ph from 8 to 7, for example, aproxx?

What about dry - powder type ph down solutions?

Another thing, If I want to calibrate my cheap ebay ph meter, I could use destilled watter from shop and it should be 7 ph, right?

Sorry for so many questions.


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## Rrog (Dec 6, 2017)

It is soooooooo weakly acidic that it is virtually neutral. 

Understand that starting at pH 7 and add just a few molecules of acid and your pH 7 is now a 4. Add a tiny amount of base and now you’re at pH 9. An almost insignificant change in acid/base molecules caused WILD apparent shift in pH.


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## “Cambo” (Dec 29, 2017)

I’ve been using Kroger spring water for many years. Seems to work perfect!


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## John Levy (Dec 29, 2017)

Well good too much information but with water sunlight is also one of the major factor for the growth of cannabis. i also have a marijuana grow and due sunlight is one of the essential component. For water don.t use it in excess because too much water can make problem and made the soil weak.


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## ThatCrispyKid (Feb 27, 2018)

I feel like I just learned so much.. good thread


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## Beachwalker (Mar 27, 2018)

100% pro-water..! It's good stuff 

Interesting thread, thanks


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## RetiredGuerilla (Mar 29, 2018)

Just add dolomite lime to your mix and forget the PH test kits. I have never owned a PH test kit in the 30 plus years i been a grower and my shit is renowned for its quality.


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## charface (Mar 31, 2018)

Looks like the thread i need
I don't have time to read all 38 pages and I've browsed the net and all info conflicts very convincingly.

So.

Im installing an iror, sulfur, mag filter
In my house.

I don't have hard water but I have iron bacteria.
My ppm is between 70-100 usually.
Ph typically above 8

I don't want the bacteria in my iron filter.

Usually i just shock the well but the people at the budgetwater tell me this is not a good idea and that I should install a chem injection prior to holding tank.

Reason being, if I shock the well that stuff dies and falls to the bottom eventually becoming food for the next bloom and could also ruin/plug my pump.

Kink of makes sense but isn't still a problem to just let it grow in my well
While treating the holding tank?

Anyway, 
I own a solution tank and injection setup but if I can simply shock the well every few months I would rather not install it. 

Im not sure the source of the problem
Only that it arose years after the well was installed and even repaired a few times.

Its about 300ft

Thanks


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## RetiredGuerilla (Mar 31, 2018)

charface said:


> Looks like the thread i need
> I don't have time to read all 38 pages and I've browsed the net and all info conflicts very convincingly.
> 
> So.
> ...


You probably already know this but the 8+ PH is super good for the human body.


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## charface (Mar 31, 2018)

RetiredGuerilla said:


> You probably already know this but the 8+ PH is super good for the human body.


Didn't know that, but lower than 7.5 is bad for my iron filter. Good to know its good for me too though


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## weedfarmer71 (Mar 31, 2018)

Great information guys!


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## pollen205 (Apr 22, 2018)

This is my first grow and I still read and learn.
I bought a biotabs fertilizer that says you do not need to correct the ph and ec value.
Biotabs did not plead hard water so I'm still trying to get that information
They say only tap water.
But I still wonder how to go with water. The water in my house is blurry if it is not in the coolest option but it's crystal clear then 
Is it recommended that such a cold water is going right away or waiting for a few hours

Please help me how to deal with water and biotabs


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## charface (Apr 22, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> This is my first grow and I still read and learn.
> I bought a biotabs fertilizer that says you do not need to correct the ph and ec value.
> Biotabs did not plead hard water so I'm still trying to get that information
> They say only tap water.
> ...


I made a tank in my room with a float valve and bubbler so the water refills the tank as I use it. 
My well water is freezing cold.

However I got away with just using it for years. In fact outdoors I use the cold hose water. 

I just feel better with the slightly warmer water.


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## pollen205 (Apr 23, 2018)

thx you @charface 
one more question.
if I boil water for 20-30 min will chloramin and chlorine evaporate...and if I do that does it kill something beneficial in the water ?


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## Started small (May 3, 2018)

I use this and it's always 6.1 pH and just add nutrients water is the key


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## Mustangmike (May 7, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> thx you @charface
> one more question.
> if I boil water for 20-30 min will chloramin and chlorine evaporate...and if I do that does it kill something beneficial in the water ?


It takes a long time to destroy chloramines by boiling depending on volume hours with chloramine present there shouldn’t be organisms in the water the presence of chlorine usually indicates the absence of microorganisms because the chloramines kill them.


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## Steela (Sep 2, 2018)

Do you know anything about using bore water?


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## Mustangmike (Sep 2, 2018)

Steela said:


> Do you know anything about using bore water?


Have it tested bore water can be easily infiltrated by surface contamination


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## Blue back (Sep 15, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> thx you @charface
> one more question.
> if I boil water for 20-30 min will chloramin and chlorine evaporate...and if I do that does it kill something beneficial in the water ?


You don't need to boil. City water here in GR Mich. Is perfect to work with. Just leave the water open to air for 24. Always check PH it's crucial and easy to fix. Don't use boiled water.


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## pollen205 (Sep 16, 2018)

Blue back said:


> You don't need to boil. City water here in GR Mich. Is perfect to work with. Just leave the water open to air for 24. Always check PH it's crucial and easy to fix. Don't use boiled water.


I am organic grower from Europe so I dont ph...
I dont use boiled water I just put air pump for couple of hours to get chlorine out


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## BrewersToker (Sep 19, 2018)

Reading this awesome thread made me realize, once again, how blessed I am to have Lake Michigan water at my disposal. Seeing all the issues many, many folks have with water makes me feel very lucky to have such clean water that I have taken for granted my entire life. 
My alma mater is heavily involved in maintaining the water quality both in the lake, and the mass wetland ecosystem that surrounds my area. My city makes water quality a huge priority, and has even provided water purifiers for older homes here to peotect against lead. Between Lake Superior (Northern Wisconsin) and Lake Michigan (Eastern coastline) we have two water sources that make agriculture almost effortless. Some of the best earth in the world is a 50 miles eastern slice of the state that runs from Green Bay south to the Illinois border. It is truly amazing.
Water is life, and we see it every single day in Wisconsin, no doubt.


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## BrewersToker (Sep 19, 2018)

Not to mention the lake ecosystems, which sustain an incredible variety of life, which keep the delicate balance between land and water in place.


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## aridpaella85 (Nov 4, 2018)

BrewersToker said:


> Reading this awesome thread made me realize, once again, how blessed I am to have Lake Michigan water at my disposal. Seeing all the issues many, many folks have with water makes me feel very lucky to have such clean water that I have taken for granted my entire life.
> My alma mater is heavily involved in maintaining the water quality both in the lake, and the mass wetland ecosystem that surrounds my area. My city makes water quality a huge priority, and has even provided water purifiers for older homes here to peotect against lead. Between Lake Superior (Northern Wisconsin) and Lake Michigan (Eastern coastline) we have two water sources that make agriculture almost effortless. Some of the best earth in the world is a 50 miles eastern slice of the state that runs from Green Bay south to the Illinois border. It is truly amazing.
> Water is life, and we see it every single day in Wisconsin, no doubt.


Totally agreed, clean water is absolutely essential for healthy plants, and people.


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## A.K.A. Overgrowem (Dec 3, 2018)

Can I foliar feed Cal-Mag.?


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## Beachwalker (Dec 3, 2018)

A.K.A. Overgrowem said:


> Can I foliar feed Cal-Mag.?


I have and I had pretty good results foliar feeding a mag deficiency. I believe I mixed 5 milliliters per gallon but you might want to check that figure cuz it's been awhile.

I also added cal-mag at 5 ml / gallon to all waterings, so I'm not totally sure the foliar spray had much effect, could have been the added Cal Mag to the waterings, I suspect it was both?

Regardless leaves didn't turn green again but they stop yellowing and stayed on the entire length of flowering, good luck!


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## MyFloridaGreen360 (Dec 11, 2018)

No Doubt water is a precious compound for mankind.


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## MyFloridaGreen360 (Dec 27, 2018)

Yes i percept your information and you done awesomely


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## Rrog (Dec 27, 2018)

charface said:


> Didn't know that, but lower than 7.5 is bad for my iron filter. Good to know its good for me too though


It’s irrelevant what pH you toss in your mouth. The pH of the stomach defines everything. Drink a glass of water at pH 8 and your stomach acid (pH2) will counter that quickly. Your stomach has systems and buffers in place to maintain pH. Same as your blood. Same as your urine.

You can’t effectively change the pH of any of these thru diet. Thank god


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## pollen205 (Jan 10, 2019)

I will invest in brita filter since ro system are not in a budget right now...
If you have some better filter system then brita please let me know...
So just wondering for now with my current method - air stone method do I evaporate anything else except chlorine...
Have tds meter too but I don't know how much ppm is my gold for organic grow... Little help ?? 
And will 4 h of bubbling water be enough to get that shit out...
Also like to know is there some budget test for chlorine


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## boysetsfire (Jan 19, 2019)

Guys, I was thinking...if pH level of soil is for exp. 5.5 and I want to fix it to be 6.5, should I water a plant with pH 7.5 water to make it around 6,5? Or it doesn't work that way?


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## Rrog (Jan 20, 2019)

If it’s natural soil the microbes will set the pH where they want it.

If you’re bottle feeding nutes to a medium, then microbes are not in charge and who knows.


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## boysetsfire (Jan 20, 2019)

Rrog said:


> who knows


Really? 
I'm "bottle feeding" my plant, yes, but how do you mean "who knows"? There must be some answer which is more precise.


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## Rrog (Jan 20, 2019)

You’re actively changing the micro-herd and whatever is living in there is trying to change it. More correctly, the microbes (normally) are responding to the needs of the plant. 

If it was real nutritious soil, you’d leave it alone. Microbes swarm and take care of all of that. I’m sorry for a lecture - that’s not what you came here for. 

If you have active runoff, you would have to measure that, relative to the pH you’re adding. Dial in the water pH until the runoff is the pH you want


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## pollen205 (Jan 27, 2019)

Stupid question but must ask

I can’t sleep when my pump for dechlorinate water is on...the sound od bubbless and pump is too loud...
Is it ok if I turn the pump off ar night and water dont move for that 8-10 h


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## Rattlehead121 (Feb 12, 2019)

So as far as a watering schedule goes, is it better to water 500ml every second day or 1000ml every 4? What is the right amount of water for soil in a 2gal pot


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## Cwrighty9420 (Mar 9, 2019)

Quick question, I recently changed soil from bio bizz light mix to plagron light mix and I was just wondering wether I should ph my water now I’ve changed to this brand?, I never has the need to ph my water when using bio bizz as it has a ph buffer inside the soil and I never had any problems however I’ve never used plagron before and I’m unsure as to wether it will buffer my ph for me like bio bizz or I’m gonna have to do it manually? Anyone?


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## Hydro4life (Mar 13, 2019)

Hey guys, was going to start a new post but just thought I'd throw a question up on this thread...

I'm about to invest in a reverse osmosis filtering system. I bought one a while back with a small resoviour but once that 7 litres or whatever was used from the resoviour the flow drops down to a really slow trickle. Not ideal for res changes haha. 
So my question is whats a good ro system that provides a constant flow.?? i will require up to 150 litres a day but dont want to wait all day to get it lol.

Thanks in advance.


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## Cwrighty9420 (Mar 14, 2019)

Does this look overwatered to anyone?


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## pollen205 (Mar 20, 2019)

Non grow question...

When I leave water in glass jar over night I see some crystalys in top of that jar...
Can you please explain me what they are...? what happen in that water
I think is beneficil but yust like to know sience behind that...


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## SupaStona (May 7, 2019)

Wow, this thread contains a lot of great information! When I first started growing I paid little attention to my nute reservoir. I added in the nutes per the manufacturer suggestions, oxygenated my solution and kept it chilled between 68-70F. Aside from that I never monitored PH, TDS or EC. I always had great results. 

Then one day I decided I should get more technical with my nute solution. I bought a pH controller, monitored TDS like crazy, and ran full RO water. I can’t tell you the reason why, but I’ve never had more problems with my plants than ever. 

Now I’m back to just running plain old tap water with nutes per recs and my oxygenators. Things are back to normal. Any insight as to why I ran into so many issues when using RO water and maintaining optimal pH/TDS?


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## Rrog (May 7, 2019)

RO water has few ions and is therefore susceptible to huge pH shifts. 

Tap and well water have a lot of ions, especially Ca, Na, Fe, and Mg. These are Stong ions and tend to buffer the solution pH. No pH swings. Very stable. 

Microbes also tend to buffer the soil, but you’re using nutes, so the microbes aren’t as much in use


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## EezyTimez (May 10, 2019)

After I made my feed my pH balance was at 6.1 my water comes out at 8.2 so by adding my organic nutrients it lowers the pH alone and I don't have to adjust it ..I was happy to go with 6.1 would you guys agree ? So basically always do pH last as nutrients can change level


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## Hydro4life (May 15, 2019)

EezyTimez said:


> After I made my feed my pH balance was at 6.1 my water comes out at 8.2 so by adding my organic nutrients it lowers the pH alone and I don't have to adjust it ..I was happy to go with 6.1 would you guys agree ? So basically always do pH last as nutrients can change level


Are you growing in hydro or soil? And yes adjust ph after adding nutes as they will change your ph.


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## EezyTimez (May 16, 2019)

Hydro4life said:


> Are you growing in hydro or soil? And yes adjust ph after adding nutes as they will change your ph.


I'm growing in sloil .. biobizz all mix to be percise mate


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## Hydro4life (May 17, 2019)

EezyTimez said:


> I'm growing in sloil .. biobizz all mix to be percise mate


I grow dwc. But grew in soil years ago. I think off memory, ideal soil ph is 6.5 but soil is a good buffer and doesnt have to be as precise as hydro. If it was me id go with the 6.1 ph as it will make life much easier for you. But observe plants closely for a while for calcium and magnesium deficiencies. If you get cal/mag deficiency then you may want to up the ph a little.?


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## EezyTimez (May 17, 2019)

Hydro4life said:


> I grow dwc. But grew in soil years ago. I think off memory, ideal soil ph is 6.5 but soil is a good buffer and doesnt have to be as precise as hydro. If it was me id go with the 6.1 ph as it will make life much easier for you. But observe plants closely for a while for calcium and magnesium deficiencies. If you get cal/mag deficiency then you may want to up the ph a little.?


Ok I'll check them all tomorrow for signs of cal/mag defficiency and see what's needing done if there is I'll up it to 6.5.... Thanks mate


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## Rongoa-tane (Jun 7, 2019)

Oh my I will eventually read through this thread but i would like to know if you can use water from the dehumidifier??..


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## Blue back (Jun 7, 2019)

Rongoa-tane said:


> Oh my I will eventually read through this thread but i would like to know if you can use water from the dehumidifier??..


I've heard before that you can but why would you want to. Just don't use A/C water. A friend of mine got the two confused (which is very easy to do) watered with A/C water and damn near killed everyone he put it on. Dumb ass!!


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## Rongoa-tane (Jun 8, 2019)

Blue back said:


> I've heard before that you can but why would you want to. Just don't use A/C water. A friend of mine got the two confused (which is very easy to do) watered with A/C water and damn near killed everyone he put it on. Dumb ass!!


Heya bud thanks for the reply.. I did use the dehumidifier water..i phd it.. it was in the alkalined area so I used ph down to get it to 6.3.. watered my clones and 24hrs later they still look alive so I guess il carry on using the dehumidifier water.. saves me from walking to the other side of the house to empty it down the toilet.. churr.


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## Hydro4life (Jun 9, 2019)

Rongoa-tane said:


> Heya bud thanks for the reply.. I did use the dehumidifier water..i phd it.. it was in the alkalined area so I used ph down to get it to 6.3.. watered my clones and 24hrs later they still look alive so I guess il carry on using the dehumidifier water.. saves me from walking to the other side of the house to empty it down the toilet.. churr.


Hey bro,
I looked in2 this a while back and cant remember exactly why some say not 2 use it...? I think it was to do with a type of metal that will be in the water from your dehumidifier....? I did a basic ppm test and found it at zero. So if their is any nasties in it then cant be too much, surely??
Just use some cal/mag with it if you do cause it'l essentially be like ro water. Churrrrr.


----------



## Rongoa-tane (Jun 10, 2019)

Churr bro I see we visited the same place before mine was only a young 3.5month bed and brekky..What was urz hold the keys..??. Lol. Anyway thanx for the info bro must go see the local grow store for some cal.mag..


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## Rongoa-tane (Jun 10, 2019)

Churr bro I see we visited the same place before mine was only a young 3.5month bed and brekky..What was urz hold the keys..??. Lol. Anyway thanx for the info bro must go see the local grow store for some cal.mag..


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## Jmass420 (Jun 18, 2019)

Cwrighty9420 said:


> Does this look overwatered to anyone?


Definitely looks over watered/ overfed to me the leaves should be reaching up not drooping and definitely no yellowing at this stage


----------



## andrea.rosales (Jul 21, 2019)

I've Bookmarked this post


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## DuBR (Jul 22, 2019)

YungMoolaBaby said:


> Nicely done. Bookmarked.


(California Raids)
That’s why Canadians are all down here illegally? Someone is a rat. How they get busted.
Canadian Lobbyists money all over, Kamala Harris that damn Canadian. Bunch of horse shit. Probably had those fire set to end competition. 
Make all my peeps homeless. 
So you can sell BS cannabis in America. 

How did some Trans’ Canadian HollyWeed get sold her in Cali, isn’t that illegal to cross national boarders with cannabis?


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## BerrySweetJuice (Aug 11, 2019)

Tho like every element of growing the best you can do with all of thee aspects and their vast intricacies the better the final buds will B, it still seems overkill to purify your water da best considering I've seen quality buds grown with water from their local tap and irrigation of their homes. And rainwater with outdoors , which brings to mind - isn't that even polluted nowadays?


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## Powertech (Aug 22, 2019)

Damn, if I hadn’t just started a grow, I would totally do a side by side comparison with different water. I’ll pick one from this crop to clone, maybe do 6 plants, 3 with tap water and 3 with RO water


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## SickboyDilligaf (Aug 29, 2019)

doc111 said:


> Thank you very much. I am humbled and honored to have a thread stickied. I hope people enjoy it and learn a little something in the process.


That’s allot to take in. In short what’s best feeding water for cannabis


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## Butterflyboy5 (Aug 29, 2019)

Do my plants look healthy or overwatered???


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## Butterflyboy5 (Aug 29, 2019)

Butterflyboy5 said:


> Do my plants look healthy or overwatered???


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## Jmass420 (Aug 30, 2019)

Nice color no signs of overwatering to me what strains are you running


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## Butterflyboy5 (Aug 30, 2019)

Gg4 larry bird gelato strawberry banana super glue blue cookies thin mints mendo breathe


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## Powertech (Aug 30, 2019)

Butterflyboy5 said:


> Gg4 larry bird gelato strawberry banana super glue blue cookies thin mints mendo breathe


Couldn’t decide huh?


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## SickboyDilligaf (Aug 30, 2019)

Let me ask this again and I will proofread it before I post it. What is the best temperature for your water to be when you water your plants in soil ?!


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## Butterflyboy5 (Sep 17, 2019)

Powertech said:


> Couldn’t decide huh?


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## Flushbuddies (Sep 22, 2019)

I am on week 3 of flowering , all the sudden my whole plant starts turning yellow . I sense it could be a nutrient lock so i put her under the bathtub tap and rinsed her right out . Anyone experiencing these issues and am i missing something?


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## Flushbuddies (Sep 22, 2019)

I am on week 3 of flowering , all the sudden my whole plant starts turning yellow . I sense it could be a nutrient lock so i put her under water and rinsed her out . Any suggestions ? Doesnt look good .


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## Manzanilla (Oct 28, 2019)

Great stuff!
What about the waste water from an air conditioning unit?
I have started using it to feed my planst as the pH level is ideal without adjustment (but require adjustment when nutrients are added).


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## Blue back (Oct 28, 2019)

Manzanilla said:


> Great stuff!
> What about the waste water from an air conditioning unit?
> I have started using it to feed my planst as the pH level is ideal without adjustment (but require adjustment when nutrients are added).


 Do Not do that. Friend of mine ruined his crop doing that.


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## Blue back (Oct 28, 2019)

SickboyDilligaf said:


> Let me ask this again and I will proofread it before I post it. What is the best temperature for your water to be when you water your plants in soil ?!


Luke warm


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## Manzanilla (Oct 29, 2019)

Ok will stop immediately.


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## SickboyDilligaf (Oct 29, 2019)

Manzanilla said:


> Ok will stop immediately.


I’ve used waters from my dehumidifier. Plants seem to like it. It’s from the air. Can’t be bad. I researched it first. No one tried to steer anyone away from it.


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## SickboyDilligaf (Oct 29, 2019)

Blue back said:


> Luke warm


67 degrees seems to be what’s on the internet and you tube.


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## Shami7426 (Oct 30, 2019)

doc111 said:


> What is distilled water?
> Distilled water is also called steam-distilled water. Distilled water is water which has been heated to the boiling point so that impurities are separated from the water, which becomes vapor or steam at 212 degrees farenheit(100C.). Steam is then cooled and condensed back into pure liquid form. The impurities remain as residue in the steam kettle(to be periodically removed). This distillation system removes waterborne biological contaminants such as bacteria, parasites and viruses, organic and inorganic chemicals, heavy metals, volatile gasses, cysts, and other contaminants. Pure water contains no solids, minerals, or trace elements. It is clean, natural, and healthy. Steam distilled water is the standard by which all other waters are measured.


Does this mean I can boil my tap water let it cool off and that will be better than jus letting the water stand for a few days to evaporate chlorine, my water is slightly hard


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## BerrySweetJuice (Dec 11, 2019)

So what happens bad to the plant if you use regular tap water? The finished buds can still turn out good if you water it with regular water right?


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## BerrySweetJuice (Dec 11, 2019)

And for outdoors fresh natural rain water makes for some good sweet all naturally flushed out nugs too ive seen.


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## Toxic Avenger (Dec 12, 2019)

The calcium and magnesium in tap water are more or less non plant available. Boiling water as a pre treatment is unnecisary. If the water is chlorinated I'd just use an air stone. If it's over 400mg/l total hardness I'd look at hard water nutrient line.
i use my aquarium as pretreatment. The 110gal tank needs refilling every week and a half or so. The ph is rather high coming out and the EC is slightly higher than the tap water I use to top the tank up. The goldfish in the tank contribute to the nitrogen as well as the biodiversity which allow me to back off on inputs slightly. In flush the ph is of less consequence but RO water or something with a flushing agent will strip nutrients faster. In flush I make the call if a plant is fading too fast I'll feed it tank water. If the plant looks too green at flush I'll use aerated tap water with or without agent to pull those nutes out. The tank water feeds the soil biology which can be undesirable at finish IMO (don't wanna start flush no flush drama. RO is great but for flush as it is a blank slate and aggressive ie wants to absorb. 
I prefer the taste of RO because my tap water sucks hairy balls....aesthetically speaking. The drinking water office lets us know when to boil it....makes alright coffee upshot is there's lots of blonds in the area due to the free cl2.lol.


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## Midiver (Jan 31, 2020)

Thank you for this educational article about water, very interesting.
I am a al als also concerned about water quality on my plants and in the aquarium. 
I use to grow orchids, rain water was considered almost because unlike plastic bottled distilled water it did not plasticizers. Distilled water being so pure has a osmosis effect and will draw plasticizers out of the container. Rain water is also distilled water, with a slightly acid pH.
I understand fertilizers are alkaline and can raise the pH to a point that the plant (like orchids) cannot absorb nutrients effectively and may eventually kill them. Tap water is treated with phosphates. These phosphates keep the water in an alkaline state to protect municipal metal water pipes from erosion. Tap water can have a pH of 7.4 or higher. Tap water also has the toxin fluoride which cannot be removed by any other way than distillation. The buildup of fluoridein Flora has been shown to B detrimental., I'm stopping now cuz I'm typing oit, I'm sure there are typos Galore I'm sorry on my cell phone I need to get to my PC. Long story short if you can use Rainwater do it


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## ToffeeKindle (Feb 10, 2020)

Man this was so helpful, I think I understand a lot better. I just installed an RO system in my house and will be trying my next run with that and I suppose cal/mag, as it will be LED also. My tap water is pretty hard, so this solidifies my thinking. Cheers


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## Jacq036 (Feb 16, 2020)

Wow, love this thread. I just read it all of it. I wish I was able to to thank the original author, doc but unfortunately I see he hasn't been around for a while now. I'm saddened by this.

Thank you anyway


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## G Bear (Feb 25, 2020)

sorry if this was covered earlier. i joined today and haven’t had a chance to read through this entire thread yet. im planning to start a grow in a little over a week and am trying to cram as much knowledge between now and then.

anyway, i have a fish tank and do weekly water changes. would it be a good idea to use that water? the tank is established, running for years....the beneficial bacteria in the filter should help water quality and the waste will add nitrates. ive used it to water houseplants and tomatoes, why not use it for this grow? 

if this has already been covered, my apologies. i have a whole lot of reading to do on everything involved.


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## Nizza (May 19, 2020)

G Bear said:


> sorry if this was covered earlier. i joined today and haven’t had a chance to read through this entire thread yet. im planning to start a grow in a little over a week and am trying to cram as much knowledge between now and then.
> 
> anyway, i have a fish tank and do weekly water changes. would it be a good idea to use that water? the tank is established, running for years....the beneficial bacteria in the filter should help water quality and the waste will add nitrates. ive used it to water houseplants and tomatoes, why not use it for this grow?
> 
> if this has already been covered, my apologies. i have a whole lot of reading to do on everything involved.


I would say this is ok if the system you are using is organic~ but will only help during vegetation stages mostly. I think the keywords you are searching for is "aquaponics" to try to get some real insight on this!
love the zappa pic man, what a GOD!


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## SF220 (Jun 1, 2020)

I have a humidifier in my room. Should I bother ph'ing the water that I put in it?


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## G Bear (Jun 1, 2020)

SF220 said:


> I have a humidifier in my room. Should I bother ph'ing the water that I put in it?


no


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## G Bear (Jun 1, 2020)

Nizza said:


> I would say this is ok if the system you are using is organic~ but will only help during vegetation stages mostly. I think the keywords you are searching for is "aquaponics" to try to get some real insight on this!
> love the zappa pic man, what a GOD!


ive only been on this site a few months and have seen a few zappa avatars/fans. love frank zappa. would be very interested to hear his take on many things happening in society today.


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## Sweetmesss (Jun 16, 2020)

Question, what about the water in your dehumidifier. Are you able to use that for plants? I mean you can but I'm more questioning what's actually in it then and the quality of the water


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## Rakin (Jun 17, 2020)

Sweetmesss said:


> Question, what about the water in your dehumidifier. Are you able to use that for plants? I mean you can but I'm more questioning what's actually in it then and the quality of the water



I used to use my dehumidifier water added to tap water + nutes and end up with perfect ph. The dehumidifier was kept clean, had good filters and the water always tested good. But for a long time people was saying not to do it or it would kill the plants from the copper coils or whatever. I think its most important to keep the res clean and not pour it on the plants when its really cold.


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## RonnieB2 (Jun 20, 2020)

I have a bored well and the TDS readings are a lot better than filtered water. Im lucky to have such good water that has good ph and TDS 0.008ppm


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## Sweetmesss (Jun 21, 2020)

RonnieB2 said:


> I have a bored well and the TDS readings are a lot better than filtered water. Im lucky to have such good water that has good ph and TDS 0.008ppm


I might have a bored well as well. Is that what they do for more rural homes but aren't hooked up to any City provided well.

I don't have a meter to test the water.


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## spek9 (Jun 21, 2020)

Sweetmesss said:


> I don't have a meter to test the water.


Buy one, or take a sample to your local health department or a private company for testing.


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## Sweetmesss (Jun 21, 2020)

spek9 said:


> Buy one, or take a sample to your local health department or a private company for testing.


I was thinking about doing that. How much does something like that cost usually? Or what do I even tell them


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## spek9 (Jun 21, 2020)

Sweetmesss said:


> I was thinking about doing that. How much does something like that cost usually? Or what do I even tell them


I don't know where you are, but in the areas I've lived in within Canada, the local health department will test the water for free. Since that's all I've ever done, I have no idea what it would cost if you don't have the same option.

All I did was simply state I need a water analysis performed. They then gave me a sample bottle with instructions. Filled it up, took it back, got results within a couple of weeks.


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## RonnieB2 (Jun 21, 2020)

Sweetmesss said:


> I might have a bored well as well. Is that what they do for more rural homes but aren't hooked up to any City provided well.
> 
> I don't have a meter to test the water.


Yes you definitely have a well. A bored well is a large hole like you see in old movies and TV. Its big enough for a person. A drilled well is a small hole just big enough for a pipe. You should get a sample and if there is a pet store that sells saltwater fish, take the sample in and ask them to test it. Or test it yourself. I use a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter. It tests 0.08 tds, which is better than filtered water. One thing for sure. Well water is way better than city water


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## RonnieB2 (Jun 21, 2020)

The health department is also a great idea. its probably free or cheap


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## spek9 (Jun 21, 2020)

RonnieB2 said:


> Yes you definitely have a well. A bored well is a large hole like you see in old movies and TV. Its big enough for a person. A drilled well is a small hole just big enough for a pipe. You should get a sample and if there is a pet store that sells saltwater fish, take the sample in and ask them to test it. Or test it yourself. I use a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter. It tests 0.08 tds, which is better than filtered water. One thing for sure. Well water is way better than city water


The good thing about having a health department or private organization test the water is that you'll get a full blown analysis. It lists the PPM of every element in the water. This allows you to get an idea of how much Ca and Mg is in your water for example, which allows you to specifically tailor your nutrient mix.


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## RonnieB2 (Jun 21, 2020)

spek9 said:


> The good thing about having a health department or private organization test the water is that you'll get a full blown analysis. It lists the PPM of every element in the water. This allows you to get an idea of how much Ca and Mg is in your water for example, which allows you to specifically tailor your nutrient mix.


Agreed. Hell, Im calling my health department tomorrow lol


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## Sweetmesss (Jun 21, 2020)

spek9 said:


> I don't know where you are, but in the areas I've lived in within Canada, the local health department will test the water for free. Since that's all I've ever done, I have no idea what it would cost if you don't have the same option.
> 
> All I did was simply state I need a water analysis performed. They then gave me a sample bottle with instructions. Filled it up, took it back, got results within a couple of weeks.


That sounds awesome. Maybe even the department of agriculture would do it as well. But I suspect you might actually have to pay if you go through the USDA. Don't know. Will definitely look into it. We have a lot of farmers out here. 

You guys are amazing. I appreciate you sharing your wisdom with us.


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## Azlaundry (Jun 22, 2020)

For the best options co post tea is a much better choice yiu csn fins the best Compost tea online for sale to make it fast snd easy. Or u csn find it online at Firestyle seed banks


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## Sweetmesss (Jun 23, 2020)

Azlaundry said:


> For the best options co post tea is a much better choice yiu csn fins the best Compost tea online for sale to make it fast snd easy. Or u csn find it online at Firestyle seed banks


I have been reading a lot about boogie Brew. Josh seems amazing


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## Azlaundry (Jun 23, 2020)

Sweetmesss said:


> I have been reading a lot about boogie Brew. Josh seems amazing


Anything that gives u amzing plants im all for


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## Sweetmesss (Jun 23, 2020)

Azlaundry said:


> Anything that gives u amzing plants im all for


True that homie. I'm just more worried especially if I'm doing a super soil recipe. Oh well that's probably for a different post


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## Lemon69 (Jul 8, 2020)

Very informative thread doc! 

Ty for postng this info, makes me wonder if others here know just how important the water being used is? hmm


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## TOKERS1987 (Jul 22, 2020)

I use rain water. Is it good for plants


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## seymour b (Sep 18, 2020)

Sweetmesss said:


> That sounds awesome. Maybe even the department of agriculture would do it as well. But I suspect you might actually have to pay if you go through the USDA. Don't know. Will definitely look into it. We have a lot of farmers out here.
> 
> You guys are amazing. I appreciate you sharing your wisdom with us.


Your county will most likely have a state agricultural extension that can handle this. They can test water and soil if needed.


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## KnewpKnewp87 (Oct 27, 2020)

This is an incredibly in-depth article. I do very much appreciate it.

However, using rain water basically antiquates... Plus its something everyone has access to for free. 

Some people take the engineering approach and it has real value, however the ecological one (allowing natural processes to occur in conjunction with the science we have) has gotten me more, better tasting fruit with less work and less money.


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## Massiveamounts (Nov 5, 2020)

Ty for this btw.


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## Chumlee1990 (Nov 8, 2020)

Coconut powder water is the key ,,,I get nice plant like the ones you see in magazines still can’t beat mine ,,Bam bam,si bloom,recharge,frosty tea,fire,prime,Moab,,,man that’s some dank dank ,likethe25AGfromdispo...
Thank me later ,,,that’s all you need o lastly si bloom silica drops ph to 6.0 so easy with less headache


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## Cryoes (Sep 20, 2021)

Go to your aquarium. Get some water out of it. You are welcome.


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## CatHedral (Sep 20, 2021)

Cryoes said:


> Go to your aquarium. Get some water out of it. You are welcome.


Most aquarium operators know what is what.


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## Cryoes (Sep 20, 2021)

https://studylib.net/doc/9001367/what-is--hard-water- When an entire community is so daft they have a 43 page long thread which is literally a copy pasta article.

This article is not really informative in the correct way and isn't even used to relate to plant growth.

Imagine being such a slimy piece of shit you plagiarize.

Next time give credit to the people that actually did the work.









Total Dissolved Solids - TDS - in Drinking Water


Total Dissolved Solids, or TDS, is a common measurement to test how pure water is. Reverse osmosis can reduce total dissolved solids to improve drinking water.




www.premierwatermn.com





Another stolen passage from here... Your sources are far from correct and you literally just ran around copy pasting things.. what an actual joke.

Literally word for word ripped quotes that take .5s to find using google. Shameful.




All you need to know about your water is you want the ph to be 5.8-6.2 .... you do not need 99% of the information you give..
Infact it would be more usefull to have an article explaining how to adjust your PH so your plants can efficiently absorb nutrients.

I don't feel like going through most of the articles you ripped as they aren't even related to horticulture...


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## Dank bnk (Nov 4, 2021)

doc111 said:


> Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".
> 
> 
> *What is "Hard Water"?*
> ...


Great job bud


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## vancouverseedcanada (Nov 15, 2021)

THANK YOU FOR THIS!


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## Holla4me (Dec 28, 2021)

Hey guys. Very comprehensive information on water. Why don’t you just use rain water. I’m on a farm. No other water than rain water. Would it not be easier than buying water or trying to fix bore water that is too heavy in minerals ?


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## DillWeed (Dec 31, 2021)

garrythegardener said:


> I think too much or too little water can be equally bad for marijuana plants. How much water any individual plant needs depends on several factors, including the stage of its life cycle, soil type, and temperature. As per my experience, cannabis plants have to be watered every two to three days


I completely agree with you. I grow indoors with soil and organic nutes. Once the plants are in their adult stage (last 2 weeks of vegging and all 9-12 weeks of flowering) I water them exactly every other day. I use 2 gallon pots and each plant gets a 1/2 gallon of water on each feeding. Regular water, then nutes, then regular water, then nutes, every other time. I’ve been having great results for over a decade doing it this way. I use tap water that evaporates/dechlorinates for 48 hours and then add PH down to make the water’s PH exactly 6.5 or so. This feeding cycle works like a charm when the plants are full grown adults… however, when they are smaller it is much more random. Sometimes seedlings and/or freshly rooted clones need a little water every day, sometimes they can go several days without more. It all depends on the medium, lighting, temperature, humidity levels, etc. there are so many factors. I’ve definitely lost some young plants due to overwatering and/or under watering them over the years. I have a very good system with adult plants and have nothing but success with them… it’s just those damn kids that drive me up the wall, haha!


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## vancoast_com (Jan 3, 2022)

Water is a must for successfully producing marijuana and hemp, so ensuring there is enough for the growing season and tapping into an irrigation system are critical tasks for cannabis cultivators. The task is even more important this year, when many parts of the country are facing drought conditions.


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## greenaffiliates (Jan 3, 2022)

Too much or too little _water_ can be equally bad for _marijuana_ plants. How much _water_ any individual plant needs depends on several factors .


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## miegaliusvz (Jan 4, 2022)

Sometimes it depends upon water Molecules In the liquid phase, water molecules arrange themselves into small groups of joined particles. The fact that these arrangements are small allows liquid water to move and flow. Water molecules in the form of gas are highly charged with energy


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## dudeoflife (Jan 5, 2022)

TLDR; Just get a reverse osmosis filter, have complete control of your grow.

I cruised through 5 years of growing with sporadic problems here and there with deficiencies, lockouts, etc with tap water, and it CAN work. But once you jump on the R.O. bandwagon, no turning back. With a couple cheap pens you have control down to the PPM for every nutrient, and will produce a consistent product. Why waste time with workarounds? 

The time I had spent troubleshooting PH fluctuations, nute lockouts, lesser yields, dying clones, etc- the $150 invested for a 3 stage system yielded a return almost instantly -- in soil, hydro, promix, coco -- across the board.


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## miegaliusvz (Jan 7, 2022)

It's the changing of plants' pores closing at day and opening at night. Normal plants without this form of pineapple photosynthesis are excreting water unnecessarily by fishing kayaks. Causing them to die in hotter weather.


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## ardiem (Jan 22, 2022)

doc111 said:


> Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".
> 
> 
> *What is "Hard Water"?*
> ...


 I have been getting my H2O from the watermill express. Have to add Cal/mag, but the growth improvement. Have hard H2O in house.


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## KennyV (Feb 15, 2022)

All I can say is that if you don't work for HM then they sure as hell need to hire you $$$. I feel like I been schooled this night. BROVO FOR YOU and a big THANKS for you KNOWLEDGE sharing. I sure know more than I did. I do have problems " I am a grower and I use RODI water , when it come out of my rodi it is 0ppm , my water runs from 130 to 145 ppm and of course it is hard water , I used it last year on my plants , none got much size to them for the hard water had my nutrients locked out of my plants , partly because of the soil I used as well. But I have 6 plants growing right now and the rodi water I am using on them is causing issues like I have never seen on cannabis before. Of course I am using cal/mag w/iron Humbolt brand . I am not sure of exactly what to do at this point because I am like beat coming and going. Hard water versus ro/di .I sware it looks like I have major pest issues but I assure you I do not. I have searched with a loup and nothing under leaves nor top of them but it looks like pest are eating and eating away at my plants. Take a look at these photos and if you know for sure what my deal is I would appreciate my 420 friends very much. This for sure aint my first grow as I am old school really. I know stop using the stuff and buy bottled water right ? But everyone says go for ro/di it good for your plants but use cal/mag " I AM "... Looking for answers before spring hits in about 2 1/2 months from now. O yeah , I did have some fungus knats Fox Farm ocean forest soil with a mix of pro mix hp w/ micorriz. "" don't have the correct spelling "" you all know what I have. Hey my 420 friends and HM employee's I would accept help from anyone that has the solution to my problems. Take a look at this.


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## Lenin1917 (Mar 2, 2022)

Why do people feel the need to overcomplicate things. You’ve got hard water with high ec? Filter it, get an initial measure on your ph adjust to to 6-7(soil) 5.6-6.2(hydro) if you’re using salts make your adjustments after mixing. That’s it, obviously rain waters fine.


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## SoulMan63 (Mar 19, 2022)

doc111 said:


> I'm not aware of any studies on this so to give you a definitive answer would be irresponsible of me. I think the benefit comes from the fact that you aren't putting "unknown quantities" of "unknown" mineral salts and compounds into your growing medium. I doubt that the purer water is going to actually leach nutes out noticeably quicker though. This is an interesting read:
> 
> http://gardenline.usask.ca/plants/ppwater.html
> 
> ...


Thanks 


doc111 said:


> I'm not aware of any studies on this so to give you a definitive answer would be irresponsible of me. I think the benefit comes from the fact that you aren't putting "unknown quantities" of "unknown" mineral salts and compounds into your growing medium. I doubt that the purer water is going to actually leach nutes out noticeably quicker though. This is an interesting read:
> 
> http://gardenline.usask.ca/plants/ppwater.html
> 
> ...


doc111 I want to thank you for the sticky. I’ve been using machine filtered water also. So I should add some cal/ mag?


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## blueberrymilkshake (Mar 19, 2022)




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## TankHankerous (Apr 6, 2022)

blueberrymilkshake said:


> View attachment 5104266


I've seen this meme a lot on this forum. Is it tongue in cheek sarcasm or is Cal Mag really the one stop shop cure all we all could use a little sprinkle of?


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## blueberrymilkshake (Apr 6, 2022)

TankHankerous said:


> I've seen this meme a lot on this forum. Is it tongue in cheek sarcasm or is Cal Mag really the one stop shop cure all we all could use a little sprinkle of?


I put it in my Cheerios, it's also the cornerstone of a balanced diet.


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## TankHankerous (Apr 6, 2022)

A wise farmer once said, "a little Cal Mag never hurts"


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## PadawanWarrior (Apr 6, 2022)




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## buckaclark (Apr 6, 2022)

blueberrymilkshake said:


> I put it in my Cheerios, it's also the cornerstone of a balanced diet.


It's what plants need


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## PadawanWarrior (Apr 6, 2022)

buckaclark said:


> It's what plants need


No. Brawndo's got what plants crave.


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## blueberrymilkshake (Apr 6, 2022)

Is calmag really just brawndo?


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## PadawanWarrior (Apr 6, 2022)

blueberrymilkshake said:


> Is calmag really just brawndo?


No Brawno's got electrolytes.


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## blueberrymilkshake (Apr 6, 2022)




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## Budzbuddha (Apr 6, 2022)

Jus fucking piss all over them ….. they gets water *and NPK *


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## PadawanWarrior (Apr 6, 2022)

Budzbuddha said:


> Jus fucking piss all over them ….. they gets water *and NPK *


Careful. One of the masters here use urine for N.


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## blueberrymilkshake (Apr 6, 2022)

_*Multiple people feel personally attacked*_


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## Chanelno1 (Apr 25, 2022)

S


doc111 said:


> What is distilled water?
> Distilled water is also called steam-distilled water. Distilled water is water which has been heated to the boiling point so that impurities are separated from the water, which becomes vapor or steam at 212 degrees farenheit(100C.). Steam is then cooled and condensed back into pure liquid form. The impurities remain as residue in the steam kettle(to be periodically removed). This distillation system removes waterborne biological contaminants such as bacteria, parasites and viruses, organic and inorganic chemicals, heavy metals, volatile gasses, cysts, and other contaminants. Pure water contains no solids, minerals, or trace elements. It is clean, natural, and healthy. Steam distilled water is the standard by which all other waters are measured.


 As a first time grower it's all about the pH balance in the water as I am not using tap water but bottled water and testing the pH and then adding a dash of lemon-would this be right-my pH is 6.8?


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## Jroey (May 3, 2022)

I mean really tho.. if ur not trying to win a canabis cup does it really matter?? Mix some nutes grow some tree and let's not act like the plant itself does t wanna live.. or am I trippin? Is it not called "weed" because it really wants to grow like a weed anywhere anyway?? Is my plant gonna Kiel over if I give some water from my hose?? I have zero growing experience I'm on my first 6 as we speak my ph is good my ppm Is high but does it really matter during ur learning process?? Or Is it more fine tuning for better yield and quality moving forward?? Please let me kno


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## themarzian (May 18, 2022)

I never thought water could be so important. Thought it was mostly nutrients.. great research done.


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## TankHankerous (Jun 9, 2022)

I just want to chime in and say that I'm on my 3rd grow. The first 2 I used Happy frog/ocean forest soil with bottled nutes... I came to harvest both times but these mugs looked scary, spooky, and sickly. Anyway I'm onmy 3rd grow this time with happy frog/ ocean forest and this time i used earthworm castings, I added more perlite and then I also top dressed with dr earth ferts. I will say this, my plant are so gosh darn happy it makes me happy. I love the idea of feeding the soil and it takes what it needs


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2022)

Anyone know how much is to much or to low of Copper? I know the MCL for human consumption is 1.3, what's ii for cannabis, and what's to little for cannabis? I have no idea what that 1.3 stands for, 1.3 ppm? My local water is .14 for Copper.


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