# I believe in God but not the Bible



## BigBlunt72 (Feb 15, 2012)

I believe that God leads each of us on a personal level as he guides us towards our fate. The Bible is irrelevant and completely bullshit it is a mind control device and continues to control the masses today. 






Don't believe the Hype.


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## Clonex (Feb 15, 2012)

I believe that Religion was more of an "olden times" law,
Kind of a mentor on how you should live ,
The Bible , in it's many forms is no more than "Chinese Whisper"
Now , i believe Religion does help "people who need something to believe in"
I also believe it is childish to believe that some God created all,
More an act of Physics ,
Clonex..


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## Voidling (Feb 15, 2012)

Religion has set back civilization a lot, dark ages and witch burning


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## BigBlunt72 (Feb 15, 2012)

Yes there is no religion but there is God who exist as the force who guides you to your eventual fate.


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## 2layz2p (Feb 15, 2012)

see.... the bible said you guys would do this....


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## PbHash (Feb 16, 2012)

BigBlunt72 said:


> Yes there is no religion but there is God who exist as the force who guides you to your eventual fate.


Based on what? I never understood why and how people can dismiss religion/bible but still believe in a God. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


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## budlover13 (Feb 16, 2012)

BigBlunt72 said:


> I believe that God leads each of us on a personal level as he guides us towards our fate. The Bible is irrelevant and completely bullshit it is a mind control device and continues to control the masses today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All one has to do is accept that the Bible was edited by the Romans circa 70AD. Kinda like if the Constitution and Bill of Rights were allowed to be edited by the British.

Congrats on seeing through the propaganda and may God Bless you.


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## budlover13 (Feb 16, 2012)

Voidling said:


> Religion has set back civilization a lot, dark ages and witch burning


Religion yes. Belief, not really imo.


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## Cannikid (Feb 16, 2012)

BigBlunt72 said:


> I believe that God leads each of us on a personal level as he guides us towards our fate. The Bible is irrelevant and completely bullshit it is a mind control device and continues to control the masses today.


I agree with you. But it is always going to be human nature to believe in a higher power. If everyone kept open minded instead of believing that their proposed way is the only right way we would be in a better place. Why do people always have to push their religion onto to others? Why can't they just take no for an answer and have a laugh that they are going to heaven and I'm going to hell.


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## PbHash (Feb 16, 2012)

Cannikid: I think it is human nature to be lazy. Unanswered questions?, just add a little God. Parents told you God was real? Dont do your own research and go with what is easy and believe what you are told.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 16, 2012)

PbHash said:


> Cannikid: I think it is human nature to be lazy. Unanswered questions?, just add a little God. Parents told you God was real? *Dont do your own research and go with what is easy* and believe what you are told.



...have you done any studying, at all - for yourself, about what you dismiss?

It is an aspect of life, this 'religion' thing. It is an aspect of a person. You'd like to come across as an intellectual, I am sure, but the O.R. slices you do work against you. Due-diligence?


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## ginjawarrior (Feb 16, 2012)

budlover13 said:


> Religion yes. Belief, not really imo.


how can you say it wasnt belief that fueled all that?

the only reason why they did those things back then was the belief they were right

now modern christians have slightly differing beliefs but its still holding them back like lack of belief of big bang theory or non belief of evolution

you cannot seperate religion from belief one tiny bit


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 16, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> how can you say it wasnt belief that fueled all that?
> 
> the only reason why they did those things back then was the belief they were right
> 
> ...



...curious to know what is wrong with believing in something? Pretty simple question


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## ginjawarrior (Feb 16, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...have you done any studying, at all - for yourself, about what you dismiss?
> 
> It is an aspect of life, this 'religion' thing. It is an aspect of a person. You'd like to come across as an intellectual, I am sure, but the O.R. slices you do work against you. Due-diligence?


i know you think your the only one that has done any sort of spiritual searching or that has had any experience of religion and differing beliefs but i think you'll find pretty much everyone here has walked their own paths including their own experiences on why they feel how they feel

reading a bunch of different works by "guru's" with an unquestioning mind doesn't mean your better informed. more gullible maybe but not more informed


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## edsthreads (Feb 16, 2012)

I only believe in proven facts - i.e science


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## ginjawarrior (Feb 16, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...curious to know what is wrong with believing in something? Pretty simple question


when people believe they have a personal conversation with god then you have a very dangerous situation as when they look into themselves for guidance from god any answer that they come up with is by definition "ordained by god"
now that arguably is fine if they believe that being nice to everyone is all their god wants

but what if they believe that their god wants them to kill the jews? or muslims? or stone women? or homosexuals? or that children are possessed? 
or if say they were the POTUS and they believed they were in the end times of revelations and that it was their destiny to press that big red button.

what is right in beliefs like that?


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 16, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> i know you think your the only one that has done any sort of spiritual searching


...I was asking a clarifying question. You owned the judgment. And, I don't claim anything. Like the other people in here I am posting my experience with the matters being discussed. What's up man? Just walking my own path. Is it only the atheists in here that can reply en mass with some fire?

FO-RUM


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 16, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> when people believe they have a personal conversation with god then you have a very dangerous situation


...well duh, so in return we'll sling sht? That's no solution.


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## ginjawarrior (Feb 16, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...well duh, so in return we'll sling sht? That's no solution.


you asked the question dont you like the answer? pretty simple question


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## ginjawarrior (Feb 16, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...*have you done any studying, at all - for yourself*, about what you dismiss?
> 
> It is an aspect of life, this 'religion' thing. It is an aspect of a person. *You'd like to come across as an intellectual*, I am sure, but the O.R. slices you do work against you. *Due-diligence?*





eye exaggerate said:


> ...I was asking a clarifying question. You owned the judgment. And, I don't claim anything. Like the other people in here I am posting my experience with the matters being discussed. What's up man? Just walking my own path. Is it only the atheists in here that can reply en mass with some fire?
> 
> FO-RUM


your coming across as a holier than thou spiritualist walk your path all you want but dont pretend your the only one walking

and dont worry im more than honest about being a bastard when i want to be (see my sig)


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 16, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> your coming across as a holier than thou spiritualist walk your path all you want but dont pretend your the only one walking



...You should keep this comment away from fire 

...no. I am trying to learn. Have a bit of fun. Then, trying to learn again. It's like a sickness, really.

...just don't think for one second that I'm not going to have some words of my own if I feel there are some being thrown around.


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## mindphuk (Feb 16, 2012)

BigBlunt72 said:


> I believe that God leads each of us on a personal level as he guides us towards our fate. The Bible is irrelevant and completely bullshit it is a mind control device and continues to control the masses today.


So what god do you believe in? With hundreds to choose from I'm having problems deciding which god is really God.


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## eye exaggerate (Feb 16, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> So what god do you believe in? With hundreds to choose from I'm having problems deciding which god is really God.



...just look for the one with the official seal - yuk yuk

)


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## Clonex (Feb 16, 2012)

The op believes in a god he can't see and not in a book he can see.
Ironic.


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## BigBlunt72 (Feb 16, 2012)

There is only one Almighty God that guides us


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## mindphuk (Feb 16, 2012)

BigBlunt72 said:


> There is only one Almighty God that guides us


Okay, but which one is it? You say there is a god but without telling us anything about him (or her) except that he is 'almighty', a meaningless attribute. Is your god nice? Does the god you believe exist have personal relationships with lowly humans? What about animals, aliens? How do you know anything about this god if it wasn't written down for you to learn about? Did he himself tell you about himself?


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## Zaehet Strife (Feb 16, 2012)

I think that back when religion first started out, it was easy for people to accept. Imagine not having any luxeries that you have today, no running water... not even a toilet. Imagine what life felt like... you get up, you work every single day just to survive, and then you die. There were many slaves who lived out their intire lives like this. Imagine not knowing why this was happening, how horrable utterly pointless would life would seem?

Imagine the reaction that people had, when they were given the idea that they have this thing called a soul. What is a soul they ask? They were told that everyone has one, and that if you do what you need to do, if you help everyone and do what is right... when you die you will be reborn again, you will live for eternity, and you will be happy.

Imagine how easy it would be to take that idea and believe in it, imagine how much easier life would be with that thought looming around you. 

It is so much easier to continue living with the thought that "if i do right, when i die, this will aaaalllll be worth it"

I think religion is nothing but a crutch, to help people get through life... a life that is without inherant meaning or purpose. (_that does not mean someone cannot give their own life meaning and purpose_... but that is easier said than done, especially when all you are living for is to survive)

_Im my opinion, i like to give my own life my own meaning. I have a purpose in this life, but i have the ability to choose what that is.
_
I think there are far too many people in this world who dont want to take the responsability in thinking for themselves, which is why we have so many people fallowing the words and beliefs of others rather than of themselves. 

If there is anything i believe in, it would be that life is what you make it. 

We all pretend to know things that we do not... except for a very few people, who have the courage and ability to realize and accept the absurdity of existence and purpose. The true seekers, who want nothing more than to be completely honest with themselves.

I would like to be one of the faithful billions... but all i see... is an excuse for the belief.




"Uncertianty in the presence of vivid hopes, fears and dreams may be very painful... but must be endured if we wish to live life without the support of others comforting fiarytales"


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## olylifter420 (Feb 16, 2012)

*

I think that back when religion first started out, it was easy for people to accept. ​
​
*


How can you be so sure of that statement? were you there when for the genesis of it?


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## cannabineer (Feb 16, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...curious to know what is wrong with believing in something? *Pretty simple question*


I don't believe it is.  cn


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## skunkpunk13 (Feb 16, 2012)

its stated that only god is infallible man is fallible, this meaning only god can be correct himself not mans interpretation of what he or it is... forgo, the bible is incorect.


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## PbHash (Feb 17, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...have you done any studying, at all - for yourself, about what you dismiss?
> 
> It is an aspect of life, this 'religion' thing. It is an aspect of a person. You'd like to come across as an intellectual, I am sure, but the O.R. slices you do work against you. Due-diligence?


How is 18+ years of going to church, 3 undergrad mythology/religion classes along with a bunched anthropology classes. Ill say thats a good start. How about you? You say my O.R. slices work against me, I'm not sure I know what that means, I'm not sure i want want to mind someone who seems to struggle in forming proper sentences and word usage.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Feb 17, 2012)

BigBlunt72 said:


> I believe that God leads each of us on a personal level as he guides us towards our fate. The Bible is irrelevant and completely bullshit it is a mind control device and continues to control the masses today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OKKKKK one question .....how would you even know about a god if it wasnt for the bible or any other religious book ? you are not born with a knowledge that a god exists its passed onto you through teachings so how would you even know a god exists without people teaching you about religion from the bible etc ?


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## budlover13 (Feb 17, 2012)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> OKKKKK one question .....how would you even know about a god if it wasnt for the bible or any other religious book ? you are not born with a knowledge that a god exists its passed onto you through teachings so how would you even know a god exists without people teaching you about religion from the bible etc ?


For ME, my belief in God comes from my background in engineering/mathematics and the inability to believe that this universe could/would work without intelligent design. (Coupled with a rather liberal dose of church as a child  )


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## PbHash (Feb 17, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> i know you think your the only one that has done any sort of spiritual searching or that has had any experience of religion and differing beliefs but i think you'll find pretty much everyone here has walked their own paths including their own experiences on why they feel how they feel
> 
> reading a bunch of different works by "guru's" with an unquestioning mind doesn't mean your better informed. more gullible maybe but not more informed





ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> OKKKKK one question .....how would you even know about a god if it wasnt for the bible or any other religious book ? you are not born with a knowledge that a god exists its passed onto you through teachings so how would you even know a god exists without people teaching you about religion from the bible etc ?


Yes yes yes! Just like if you were born in Pakistan you would very likely be Muslim, not out of your own conclusions but bc your parents told you it is correct.


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## colonuggs (Feb 17, 2012)

we are all products of our environment.

we believe what we are told to believe as children.... we are like sheep, having thoughts and beliefs inbeded in our hard drives

God is a mind thought.... made up to give people hope & comfort through hard times


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## boneheadbob (Feb 17, 2012)

Men of intelligence have debated the issue on both sides for thousands of years therefore I am left to my own intelligence to make the decision.

Thank goodness I am a alky and addict and not super smart, 

Once I hit bottom and asked Jesus for help, he removed the scales from my eyes and I was able to read and understand the Word. The Bible came alive to me and I was able to see that it is like a tapestry with the threads woven in a way that brings life to the Word.

That may sound crazy, yet it is the truth


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## ink the world (Feb 17, 2012)

PbHash said:


> Yes yes yes! Just like if you were born in Pakistan you would very likely be Muslim, not out of your own conclusions but bc your parents told you it is correct.


I agree to a large extent. I believe that our image of God differs due to our geographic location and the dominant religion of that area. 

I spent most of my schooling in Catholic schools, theology every day church twice a week at school plus Sundays with the family. I don't take the Bible literally, too many contradictions for me. I believe in a God just not the angry vengeful one portrayed in some of the Bible


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## boneheadbob (Feb 17, 2012)

edsthreads said:


> I only believe in proven facts - i.e science


good luck, science has to rewrite the book every ten or twenty years
yet the Bible has withstood the test of time


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## ink the world (Feb 17, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> good luck, science has to rewrite the book every ten or twenty years
> yet the Bible has withstood the test of time


Thing is that the Bible is the word of man not God. 
If it truly is the word of God then he is quite self contradictory, the Bible has way too many contradictions in it for me to take it literally as the word of God. 

Look at how the 10 commandments are contradicted MANY times just in Leviticus.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Feb 17, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> good luck, science has to rewrite the book every ten or twenty years
> yet the Bible has withstood the test of time


What absolute bullshit , your ignorance and dumbness is gobsmacking , the bible has not withstood anything , the simplest of questioning of the bible ,proves its absolute nonsense .
the reason science is ever changing is because its forever being questioned and re- questioned wich is absolutely amasing brilliance .it means the answers we have are up to date .
unlike the bible , science never claims to absolutely know about anything , it simply states'we have tested something to all our knowledge and this is what we have found , please feel free to do your own experiments and prove us wrong ' , the bible claims its the word of god and must be adhered to without questiong or reasoning .
how can you possibly think the bible has withstood the test of time ? the more time thats gone on , the more we have realised how stupid the bible is , i figured out the bible was lies when i was forced to read the lords prayer at 5 years old .


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## colonuggs (Feb 17, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> good luck, science has to rewrite the book every ten or twenty years
> yet the Bible has withstood the test of time


And yet the Bible has been rewritten and added on to as time went on....Christianity was not even a religion until 2000 yrs ago as the new testiment was not even written yet....the man known as Jesus was a Jew....the pictures you see of him with light skin & blue eyes is a false image.... try brown eyes ,dark skin

think if you lived by the Cairan....we are infidels


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Feb 17, 2012)

who cares ? if jesus was a real man he tricked all you gullible fools , without any evidence at all lol .
i can undestand people of his time falling for the bullshit coz you know they had a very limited understanding of the world they lived in ,they thought a lightining strike was an act of god or a tsunami was an angry god , but anyone who believes this shit today is not of a normal mind .


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## PbHash (Feb 17, 2012)

Sometimes it actually hurts me to read the absolute ignorance of people. How could you think the Bible has never changed and at the same time criticize science for"changing", if you think science shouldn't be ever changing, explain how we have gotten where we are in medicine . The truth never changes, only our understanding of it. 

At one time we believed lizards were created in fire. I dare anyone to prove


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

be negative and in a shitty mood, things go wrong.

be angry all the time and you will fuck things up.

positive and happy, funnily things go right, more often than not.


blaming or thanking god for any of that, is something i find rather redundant (since, it was never "god" that helped in my bad times, it was people. nor was i thinking about god at all when i was happy)

dont see the point of god.

unless you feel better about having some invisible ally on your side, though, what gets you through the day, are good people.

having lots of good people around is lucky.

..

jesus. jesus had some good lines (though you could check out buddhism and other stuff and find similar lines (and older, its just a basic truth, love, friendship, sharing and caring, make for heaven.))

but, i kinda doubt the "water into wine" trick would have raised more than a few eyebrows today..


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> be negative and in a shitty mood, things go wrong.
> 
> be angry all the time and you will fuck things up.
> 
> ...


The question is why are you alive and what's going to happen to the planet. You'll see and come begging for God to save you, unless you are part of the Illuminati. Have fun trying to lead the blind.


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

might be great to have god 


but all we got are people (Furry or not)


fate smate.

its all just people.

all our life is just people, the rest is just scenery.

what?

you think god is guiding some people ? (or the devil some? lol?)

nudging this pebble here so it will fall in the right place?



well, sure, ive seen the darndest things, amazing bad luck and amazingly good luck.

probably are spirits.

but god.

god would perhaps be more like the sun, giving life and leaving life to it.

after all it could create life and everything, how are we going to connect to something like that? emotionally or mentally?

and worship is so pointless.

like ants worshipping people. (we´d feel bit funny about it yeah?)


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

PbHash said:


> Sometimes it actually hurts me to read the absolute ignorance of people. How could you think the Bible has never changed and at the same time criticize science for"changing", if you think science shouldn't be ever changing, explain how we have gotten where we are in medicine . The truth never changes, only our understanding of it.
> 
> At one time we believed lizards were created in fire. I dare anyone to prove


Ignorance is free. Wisdom is valuable, yet it is underated by ignorant minds. Medicine is quite funny, don't be fooled. Ask the united states dentists why they have capped millions of teeth with mercury amalgams for many, many years. Ask food corporations why they let MSG get into major public food consumption sources. We need a god, because humans just want to kill for money, like president Obama might kill for a steamy bucket of crispy chicken.


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> like ants worshipping people. (we´d feel bit funny about it yeah?)


So, any animal has the brain capacity to worship something, even the dolphins?
Pay attention to what is written and common knowledge. God made man in his image.


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> The question is why are you alive and what's going to happen to the planet. You'll see and come begging for God to save you, unless you are part of the Illuminati. Have fun trying to lead the blind.



why i am alive? dunno, dont remember beginning.

or even if there was a beginning.

beg god to save me?

from what? myself? other people? god?

illuminati? 

what a bunch of pathetic fools, grasp control tighter and like sand it falls out of your hands, you Cant control people , no one accepts being a total slave. not for long.


god? i met him in a dream (isnt that how you meet god apart from the burning bushes? lol)

felt like a guy to me.

older, sure, larger.

perhaps one to protect you if you asked.

dont they say we are the children of god?

i know i love my children , straying afar or not.

and ive always felt wrong for punishing them and always found better ways to do it later and if im clever enough for that, wouldnt god be?



jehova was always a harsh cruel god, the god of desertdwellers (About a dwelling as harsh as you can find.)


why are you dwelling so hard on that image of "god" ?


because some satanists got into office? lol.

happen to the planet?

whatever WE do to the planet.

worshipping god on bended knee.

IS NOT GOING TO DO FUCK ABOUT IT (Except make ya feel better)


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> who cares ? if jesus was a real man he tricked all you gullible fools , without any evidence at all lol .
> i can undestand people of his time falling for the bullshit coz you know they had a very limited understanding of the world they lived in ,they thought a lightining strike was an act of god or a tsunami was an angry god , but anyone who believes this shit today is not of a normal mind .


I imagine that living with a person like you must be quite difficult. It appears that you are needy for evidence to propel you all the time, like a robot.


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> So, any animal has the brain capacity to worship something, even the dolphins?
> Pay attention to what is written and common knowledge. God made man in his image.



you are really jumping to conclusions here.

any animal has the capacity to worship something?

no

.

no animal worships anything

only humans have brain capacity enough to be that stupid


("HELP HELP, THE VOLCANO IS ERUPTING; LETS THROW FRUITS; GOLD AND PEOPLE INTO IT TO PLEASE THE GODS AND MAKE THEM STOP" (you are really just the "advanced" version of those people)


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

here is the point.


pray

why? if i want something, i get it from the world, people to love, food to eat and so on.


have faith

in what?

that the sky wont fall on me? on that people are nice? (eh, im nice to them and generally im treated nice)


worship?

why?

does a Higher being NEED worship.


does it make other people be more nice? 

does it make chance of earthquakes less?

any less chance on asteroids?


so come on, give me a reason to be religious? to believe in god?


the afterlife?


I have experienced it.

its cool, its ok and the people there were funny and nice.


didnt meet no god.


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> why i am alive? dunno, dont remember beginning.
> 
> or even if there was a beginning.
> 
> IS NOT GOING TO DO FUCK ABOUT IT (Except make ya feel better)


Bro, sounds to me like you've just accidentally defecated on yourself. How about I go to sleep and you call your nurse and change your bedsheets. When you finally recover from your episode of denial diarrhea, please go to church and stop wasting our time with your rant of bullshit about how you condemn people that follow god.


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> here is the point.
> 
> 
> pray
> ...


Your anger and crying suggest that you are reaching out to the world for help, but noone wants to help you. You act as a rabid doggy, noone will touch this disorder with a 30 foot pole


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

i met him in a dream. asked me a question, "whats the source of evil" i said "money" (no sharing and caring) and he said "right"


like i said, just felt like a big older guy, rather nice.


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> i met him in a dream. asked me a question, "whats the source of evil" i said "money" (no sharing and caring) and he said "right"
> 
> 
> like i said, just felt like a big older guy, rather nice.


I never read anywhere that God said money is the root of evil. That's Hollywood's feeling about money, now I know where you get your education about God. The TV, Harry Potter and Spiderman. You think that some human force is going to save the world and bring real freedom to all the nations. Very cute indeed, keep wishing for that and pushing your sloppy anti-god propanda. You have a lot of work to do.


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> Bro, sounds to me like you've just accidentally defecated on yourself. How about I go to sleep and you call your nurse and change your bedsheets. When you finally recover from your episode of denial diarrhea, please go to church and stop wasting our time with your rant of bullshit about how you condemn people that follow god.


*
go to sleep. sure. 
**go to church, be stupid, for all i care, but just dont expect me not to state my opinions the way you are allowed to spout your nonsense.
*
*you good , christian, you  man of god *



ChronicObsession said:


> Your anger and crying suggest that you are reaching out to the world for help, but noone wants to help you. You act as a rabid doggy, noone will touch this disorder with a 30 foot pole


*why am i pissed? because i need weed for medicine and i get hounded like a dog for it and punished by people i find moronic to the Nth degree.

you? i find just slightly moronic.

i find it good that you seek the good.

good luck in that 
*


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> I never read anywhere that God said money is the root of evil. That's Hollywood's feeling about money, now I know where you get your education about God. The TV, Harry Potter and Spiderman. You think that some human force is going to save the world and bring real freedom to all the nations. Very cute indeed, keep wishing for that and pushing your sloppy anti-god propanda. You have a lot of work to do.


never read it, but i said it.

you think god never talks no more and you think he said everything right at the start?


but yeah, i think humans will save the world,

you

you are gonna hide in your closets and say your prayers


cause that


is going to save everything


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> *
> go to sleep. sure.
> **go to church, be stupid, for all i care, but just dont expect me not to state my opinions the way you are allowed to spout your nonsense.
> *
> ...


Weed for medicine? LOL bro, how about stop crying here. That's no way to get your drug. you don't have coin or the balls to smoke weed during your predicament, and you're basically blaming god, like he is your extra Daddy? LOL you just need to save up for some boxes of tissues and start planting seeds and behold the miracle of not being a lazy, whiney bitch! Good luck in that.


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> never read it, but i said it.
> 
> you think god never talks no more and you think he said everything right at the start?
> 
> ...


You laugh at praying like I laugh at open same sex gayness, 2 dudes kissing and what not. Keep being prejudice so the world doesn't stop spinning!


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

no, i got plenty of weed, i just hate the fact that the "moral right" is forcing their views on me.




boy have you got issues,.


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> no, i got plenty of weed, i just hate the fact that the "moral right" is forcing their views on me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well bro it's called stepping up under pressure. if you let people discover that you smoke like a chimney and it happens to be marijuana, that's a personal problem that you can fix by moving away. Good luck with that.


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> You laugh at praying like I laugh at open same sex gayness, 2 dudes kissing and what not. Keep being prejudice so the world doesn't stop spinning!



*


ive seen prayers work instantly.
*

twice in a row..


but..

do you really think praying is gonna fix people?


more than being nice to them?


you think this piece of shit version of you is gonna get into heaven?



what is heaven?


nice people? yeah? and lots of them?

everything you need, cause everyone is caring and sharing?

yeah?


where do you

fit into that description?


and yeah, you totally fit the profile for a homohater too

i bet if i saw your picture, you´d look like a closetqueer too (hey, deal with it man, fucking other men is ok! you like it so dont worry about it and just do it!)


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> well bro it's called stepping up under pressure. if you let people discover that you smoke like a chimney and it happens to be marijuana, that's a personal problem that you can fix by moving away. Good luck with that.



this pressure is rather universal.

and not condoned by god in any "book" btw.

but you are right, its totally useless being mad at monkeys.


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> *
> 
> 
> ive seen prayers work instantly.
> ...


Wow, you must work for the FBI. What you know about me is quite impressive. Although know this, if I ever saw you, you would never be part of my real fanclub. So fap off and keep prayin'! I'll worry about my own flaws and you work on your relationship with God! Peace.


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> Wow, you must work for the FBI. What you know about me is quite impressive. Although know this, if I ever saw you, you would never be part of my real fanclub. So fap off and keep prayin'! I'll worry about my own flaws and you work on your relationship with God! Peace.


lol, oh you dont know, we might become best friends! 

and you dont know who i am 

or what i am, really 

or even if i was serious  on any of it 

have a good one man  may all your nice prayers be instantly fulfilled and you get the big hug from daddy god as you want and deserve


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> lol, oh you dont know, we might become best friends!
> 
> and you dont know who i am
> 
> ...


Well I really feel the love when two warring sides can come to a peaceful conclusion. Have a good night man, and whichever path you take, may it lead you to eternal peace


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## sso (Feb 17, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> Well I really feel the love when two warring sides can come to a peaceful conclusion. Have a good night man, and whichever path you take, may it lead you to eternal peace



all you need is love  nicely put man.

though id kinda renege on the eternal peace part, sounds kinda boring , though i do not want any trouble (but skiing madly down some slope halfdrunk, sounds kinda nice to me (oh i almost never drink, got bored with it)

but yeah, right back at ya dude and much more, we all deserve it.

everything we want.

under heaven and under love.

everything we need.

as soon as we want it.

(and have tired of exploring the sins, boring as they become sooner or later.)


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## ChronicObsession (Feb 17, 2012)

sso said:


> all you need is love  nicely put man.
> 
> though id kinda renege on the eternal peace part, sounds kinda boring , though i do not want any trouble (but skiing madly down some slope halfdrunk, sounds kinda nice to me (oh i almost never drink, got bored with it)
> 
> ...


Sins are boring, man. Regardless of having to prove ourselves "worthy" to get into heaven, just trying to live without sin which damages the mind and body can bring great results. I wish I had total control over my body's instinct to seek pleasure, I would get a lot more work done and reap the rewards through work, not free sex with a whore or drinking into oblivion in public < been there.


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## 0blivious (Feb 19, 2012)

Ok so it's like 6am not slept yet but will come back to this thread as I want to chime in.

Was raised church of England but don't really put all that much weight in the bible, mainly due to the fact that any written historic text is written by a human and therefore subject to interpretation by that human, influenced by their experiences and thought process (and because we can't read the "original text" for ourselves)

Also, if you look into it Christianity seems to be pagan sun worship (which is actually worship of a samerian god called shamash, also known as the god of justice hence the expression "god is just" (sp?)) There are also huge ssimilarities in many religious texts that COULD be referenced to samerian texts / tablets which are THE oldest recorded language / writings that are like 3000 years BEFORE CHRIST and who worshiped a multitude Of gods.

Now personally I think believing in religion / god is just fine if it makes you happy, I'm more a faith in a higher power than myself type of guy I don't want or need labels like "god" thrown about especially when many of the larger religions break there own "commandments" even at the highest level of believers, hell look at the dark ages or the crusades for example!

Another thing that gets me is the fact that many "religions" operate like businesses and horde profits and I mean major money, look at the Vatican and its wealth compared to its acts of charity.

Oooh oooh and I have a massive and I mean massive problem with ANY religion that uses its beliefs as an excuse for war or killing, seriously?! At least be honest about your brutality and murder, don't hide behind "religion" because it's a touchy subject.

Right bed time now but will come back later as this could be a great thread and I need to be able to think coherently to debate this properly but for now think on this...... If hitler had won world war 2 what would historic texts say about him in 3000 years? Just remember history is written by the victors....

Obli out....puff puff!


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## BA142 (Feb 19, 2012)

0blivious said:


> Right bed time now but will come back later as this could be a great thread and I need to be able to think coherently to debate this properly but for now think on this...... If hitler had won world war 2 what would historic texts say about him in 3000 years? Just remember history is written by the victors....
> 
> Obli out....puff puff!


Well historic texts generally have SOME historical documents to back them up. The Bible is just 2000 years of people shoving the same thing down their kids throats until it became normal


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## blazinkill504 (Feb 19, 2012)

ChronicObsession said:


> Sins are boring, man. Regardless of having to prove ourselves "worthy" to get into heaven, just trying to live without sin which damages the mind and body can bring great results. I wish I had total control over my body's instinct to seek pleasure, I would get a lot more work done and reap the rewards through work, not free sex with a whore or drinking into oblivion in public < been there.


didnt god say once you're in heaven you're his servant for enternity? that dont sound like a peachy place to me if i got some all mighty dude tellin me what to do all the time and i dont get to see my fam and friends and thats IF we all make it.


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## 0blivious (Feb 19, 2012)

BA142 said:


> Well historic texts generally have SOME historical documents to back them up. The Bible is just 2000 years of people shoving the same thing down their kids throats until it became normal


Thats true BA but who created those historical documents? Those who where writing the history at that time in whatever way they saw fit, add a detail here, omit a few there etc.

The bible, in many ways, can be likened to Facebook. Now before you rip me a new one please understand that I don't mean in terms of the message the bible puts across (and there really are some good ones) but in its ability to be used as a crutch and a way to deal with everyday life by giving a focal point

Look at the state of everyday life 2000 years ago, no social housing and benefits to help your starving kids, disease everywhere, policing systems being abused, politicians bought and sold and no where for the Average commoner to turn for help, hell the Romans built the colloseums to GIVE the people something else to focus on so they didnt have mass social upheaval.

Is this not a similar to the way Facebook sucks us in and keeps our attention? Sure you see a post or two on current events and world issues but ooh I need help on my farm or MUST let the world know how cute this dancing bear pic is. 

Do you see my point? Focus on this and not us, live your life by these rules and "commandments" (while we flaunt and ignore them *cough* Vatican *cough).

This is just my $0.02 but I've done my due diligence and have my own opinions, you all have free will and will excersise that how you feel fit to. I just have gripes with any religion that hides behind its self and dictates what we have access to an interprets gods word to ALL MANKIND as they see fit (big shiny brass balls in my opinion).

But as I said, free will n all that...


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Mar 17, 2012)

BigBlunt72 said:


> I believe that God leads each of us on a personal level as he guides us towards our fate. The Bible is irrelevant and completely bullshit it is a mind control device and continues to control the masses today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wich god are you talking about , and how did you find out about this god ?


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## BA142 (Mar 17, 2012)

0blivious said:


> Look at the state of everyday life 2000 years ago, no social housing and benefits to help your starving kids, disease everywhere, policing systems being abused, politicians bought and sold and no where for the Average commoner to turn for help, hell the Romans built the colloseums to GIVE the people something else to focus on so they didnt have mass social upheaval.


Sounds like you just described life in 2012. Just replace the Roman Colosseum with the internet and mainstream media. 

Religion is halting progress. A lot of hate for gays and minorities comes straight from the Evangelical community...retarded outdated laws that remain because of Religous beliefs, not to mention the total lack of separation of church and state within the Republican party.

I don't have a problem with individuals practicing any sort of belief system....but in this country Christianity takes an overwhelming majority of respect and it's really fucking annoying for non Christian's


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## richinweed (Mar 17, 2012)

PbHash said:


> Cannikid: I think it is human nature to be lazy. Unanswered questions?, just add a little God. Parents told you God was real? Dont do your own research and go with what is easy and believe what you are told.


....how true...im infact not a follower, i dont and wont have blind faith in any so called idol/god/government, I do tho beleive in mother earth as our cradle and our creator, so im spiritual but not god fearing ,god is only an old form of governance and taxation(bible)....and i find that many people of any faith are weak people whome can be convinced of anything as long as you can add a little god!


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## Islam (Apr 26, 2012)

I see religion as a gateway to God. Religion helps people understand and appreciate the power of God and create brotherhood for humanity. People tend to merge barabaric cultural practices with religion. Why can humanity not get along when religion tells man to do good? People tend to be fucked in the head and think what they were taught by other rebels is religious. Suicide bombing, beheadings, pedophilia in churches, Zionists- PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM. We need to get along, stop watching propaganda on tv, read our religious books PROPERLY and not follow what others say and start socializing. 

[video=youtube;WibmcsEGLKo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo[/video]


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## cannabineer (Apr 26, 2012)

Islam, I think most people view religion as a gateway to God, a "user interface". The troubles appear when one makes independent (extrareligious) inquiries into how to ID the god in question. There's such an extensive menu and no "try before you buy" option ... and more critically, no guarantee of a Divine in texts that are not ultimately self-referent. cn


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## DreamTime (Apr 26, 2012)

Islam said:


> I see religion as a gateway to God. Religion helps people understand and appreciate the power of God and create brotherhood for humanity. People tend to merge barabaric cultural practices with religion. *Why can humanity not get along when religion tells man to do good?* People tend to be fucked in the head and think what they were taught by other rebels is religious. Suicide bombing, beheadings, pedophilia in churches, Zionists- PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM. We need to get along, stop watching propaganda on tv, read our religious books PROPERLY and not follow what others say and start socializing.


I think it's a "do as I say not as I do" problem. Using Christianity as an example: God gives his people the 10 commandments and tell them "thou shalt not kill" and a little bit latter tells his followers to commit genocide and kill all the Canaanites and take their land. Thats an extremely inconsistent and contradictory message. Religions have solved the dilemma by declaring that anything their god does is good by definition. This has the net result of making good as a moral principle effectively meaningless. So while most religious text would admonish us to be good, they are full of examples of God acting badly. At least if we apply our own moral code to god.



Islam said:


> Suicide bombing, beheadings, pedophilia in churches, Zionists- PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM.


Couldnt agree with you more


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 26, 2012)

Islam said:


> I see religion as a gateway to God. Religion helps people understand and appreciate the power of God and create brotherhood for humanity. People tend to merge barabaric cultural practices with religion. Why can humanity not get along when religion tells man to do good? People tend to be fucked in the head and think what they were taught by other rebels is religious. Suicide bombing, beheadings, pedophilia in churches, Zionists- PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM. We need to get along, stop watching propaganda on tv, read our religious books PROPERLY and not follow what others say and start socializing.
> 
> [video=youtube;WibmcsEGLKo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo[/video]


YOU BASTARD! I was gunna post this lol glad to see some like minded people though.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 26, 2012)

Im sure some being created this universe according to his or her design, starting with the big bang, not knowing what was to become of it but knowing something good was to become of it... But we should not worship whoever that being may be, shouldnt worship any being what so ever. Why would God want us to be weak and dependent on him? You think God would be proud of raising a race of blind sheep that cannot think for themselves? Guaranteed if you die and you approach a God-like being and you bow down to it, that being would show little respect for you because your submissive and weak, when God wants you to be strong and independent! 

That being said, I dont think there is one God nor a group of Gods dictating everything, because if they know exactly whats gunna happen then whats the point of life? A TV like re-run for the Gods? God doesnt know whats gunna happen, God is more human than you know, he makes mistakes and learns from them just like we do, for if God stopped evolving then WE would stop evolving. I myself hope that perfection is never achieved because that would mean we would have nothing more to accomplish, therefore God is not perfect, and thats a good thing. 

I confuse people when I talk about God, I refer to god as a him or a her or a group of him and hers. But the Bible and Charlie Chaplin are right when they say God is not in one man, not a group of men but in all men. God is everywhere, everyone, and everything but God exists in you the most. God is your inspiration and will power to achieve your dreams. God is happiness and bliss and everything leading to it.

Anywhoo... I'll end with this... There is no Hell, even Pope John Paul made a public apology at the Vatican saying they made up hell as a means of control, not that any thick headed christian listend to him... Hell is only a state of mind, like depression. Hell is being cut off from happiness, Hell is being cut off from God.

P.S... God wants you to be God


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## Wednesday (May 11, 2012)

BigBlunt72 said:


> I believe that God leads each of us on a personal level as he guides us towards our fate. The Bible is irrelevant and completely bullshit it is a mind control device and continues to control the masses today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you read the entire Bible, though? It's really not as "controlling" as people tend to say. It's pretty standard to any religion...do unto others as you'd like done unto you..don't murder people or fuck their wives or steal their car. That kind of thing. I think that the people who have manipulated it to do terrible things just happen to use the Bible. If they hadn't had it to use, they would have found another way to manipulate people. Look at our society today. As the Bible is slowly losing it's place in our society, politicians and governments look for new ways to rile the people up and silence them when necessary.


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## Heisenberg (May 11, 2012)

Wednesday said:


> Have you read the entire Bible, though? It's really not as "controlling" as people tend to say. It's pretty standard to any religion...do unto others as you'd like done unto you..don't murder people or fuck their wives or steal their car. That kind of thing. I think that the people who have manipulated it to do terrible things just happen to use the Bible. If they hadn't had it to use, they would have found another way to manipulate people. Look at our society today. As the Bible is slowly losing it's place in our society, politicians and governments look for new ways to rile the people up and silence them when necessary.


Matthew 10:37

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.


Seems kinda controlling to me. Jesus wants us to love him more than our family. Is your boss that controlling? Were your teachers that controlling? Do you know anyone in your life in any way who is that controlling?


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## Wednesday (May 11, 2012)

DreamTime said:


> I think it's a "do as I say not as I do" problem. Using Christianity as an example: God gives his people the 10 commandments and tell them "thou shalt not kill" and a little bit latter tells his followers to commit genocide and kill all the Canaanites and take their land. Thats an extremely inconsistent and contradictory message. Religions have solved the dilemma by declaring that anything their god does is good by definition. This has the net result of making good as a moral principle effectively meaningless. So while most religious text would admonish us to be good, they are full of examples of God acting badly. At least if we apply our own moral code to god.
> 
> 
> 
> Couldnt agree with you more


That's a little off. God didn't just say "Alrighty go kill 'em, what the hell." There were many, many wars going on back then. People today, societies today, are so much different than they used to be, and people don't often take that into account. We are always aiming to exert our individuality and express our own personal views and opinions. Back then, though, people were actual members of "families". Identified by their family name. Part of clans and tribes acting as one whole. People go on about the deaths of innocent women and children in the Bible, but these were not just "individual" people. They were a part of a bigger entity. Those innocent cute little babies grow up, taught by the parents of their own culture. If they hadn't all been destroyed at once, it would only have been a matter of years before those children grew up and came back to war again. And let's not forget the Canaanites were busy sacrificing their own children anyway. This wasn't an ethnic cleansing. God tells his people to accept the foreigner as he would his neighbor. Aside from normal wars, that would have happened anyway, the selected groups of people that God orders the complete destruction of were corrupt in ways that we today would put people to death for too. Wars over land have always and will always happen. More often than not in the Bible, when a war is fought, it's usually like somebody asks God "Hey. If we fight these people, are we gonna win?" And God is either like "Ya, go ahead. I got your back." Or he's like "No, leave those people be, they ain't hurtin' nothin." It's not like every time war broke out God told the Israelites to kill all the women, children, cattle, etc. It happened a handful of times and only when the people the Israelits were fighting were so corrupt they couldn't possibly live next to the Israelites without doing something horrible.


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## boneheadbob (May 11, 2012)

The Bible is filled with wisdom from the King of Kings who has given us an instruction book for life. 

Has anyone ever done an in depth study of the five senses? Each one is proof beyond a doubt that we had an intelligent designer and I believe that ID to be the God of the Bible.

No way the five senses evolved.


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## boneheadbob (May 11, 2012)

All the terrible parts of the Bible did not make sense to me untill the scales were removed from my eyes.

But dont dwell on the bad stuff. Dwell on the good stuff, the good news.
Jesus Christ died for the sins of humanity so whomsoever would believe would have eternal life.

Eternal life is no cheap trinket and its free but Jesus will not enter unless you open the door and invite Him in.


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## tyler.durden (May 11, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> The Bible is filled with wisdom from the King of Kings who has given us an instruction book for life.
> 
> Has anyone ever done an in depth study of the five senses? Each one is proof beyond a doubt that we had an intelligent designer and I believe that ID to be the God of the Bible.
> 
> No way the five senses evolved.


Have you studied evolutionary theory at all? If so, what were your sources? Would you please give links to why our senses couldn't have evolved? Thanks!


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## Wednesday (May 11, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> All the terrible parts of the Bible did not make sense to me untill the scales were removed from my eyes.
> 
> But dont dwell on the bad stuff. Dwell on the good stuff, the good news.
> Jesus Christ died for the sins of humanity so whomsoever would believe would have eternal life.
> ...


It was really hard for me to make it through the terrible war stories too. I was always so "But what about the *children*?!" But then I think about some poor Israelite bastard marrying a Canaanite woman and he comes home and he can't find her cuz she's gone and killed the baby again... Some things just can't be allowed if you want a peaceful society to live in.


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## tyler.durden (May 11, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> All the terrible parts of the Bible did not make sense to me untill the scales were removed from my eyes.
> 
> *But dont dwell on the bad stuff. Dwell on the good stuff, the good news*.
> Jesus Christ died for the sins of humanity so whomsoever would believe would have eternal life.
> ...


I've posted this before, but I love this line of reasoning. I liken this to a Joker quote from the original Batman film franchise:

"Joker here. Now you fellas have said some pretty mean things. Some of which were true, under that fiend Boss Grissom. He was a thief, and a terrorist. On the other hand, he had a tremendous singing voice..."


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## mindphuk (May 12, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> The Bible is filled with wisdom from the King of Kings who has given us an instruction book for life.
> 
> Has anyone ever done an in depth study of the five senses? Each one is proof beyond a doubt that we had an intelligent designer and I believe that ID to be the God of the Bible.


Proof is a pretty strong word. I have quite significant doubt that there was a designer, let alone intelligent. 


> No way the five senses evolved.


Actually they did. However, since you're the one with proof, I will let your prove I'm wrong rather than waste my time explaining how we might have evolved five senses naturally. Interestingly, your God's favorite species, man, seems to have been short-changed in the sense department. Not only did we get stuck with only five senses when we could have echolocation or sense magnetic or electric fields, we have such inferior capabilities of sight, smell and hearing compared to other species.


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## Heisenberg (May 12, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Proof is a pretty strong word. I have quite significant doubt that there was a designer, let alone intelligent.
> Actually they did. However, since you're the one with proof, I will let your prove I'm wrong rather than waste my time explaining how we might have evolved five senses naturally. Interestingly, your God's favorite species, man, seems to have been short-changed in the sense department. *Not only did we get stuck with only five senses when we could have echolocation or sense magnetic or electric fields, we have such inferior capabilities of sight, smell and hearing compared to other species.*


You are forgetting that God removed the scales from his eyes. Perhaps now he can see the full spectrum, and we could even have these scales on our other senses. You can not prove that bob lacks echolocation.


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## mindphuk (May 12, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> You are forgetting that God removed the scales from his eyes. Perhaps now he can see the full spectrum, and we could even have these scales on our other senses. You can not prove that bob lacks echolocation.


By 'we' I am referring to me and others like me who have never been touched with this special knowledge that seems hidden from us normal folk. Bob may indeed be superhuman but he is special because he has proof that no one else seems to have.


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## boneheadbob (May 12, 2012)

I should have made it more clear that I am speaking of my life experiances & my opinion. Afterall, the most intelligent people in the world debate the issue and neither side can prove themselves beyond any doubt despite what some think. 

I have respect for those of you who hold to Darwins theory however I am just as positive you are wrong as you are positive that I am wrong. 

To me personally life is so astounding and unreal and the more I "study" it the more I see the Creator behind the curtain. Even planting veggies astounds me. Some seeds are so tiny I need to put my glasses on. It grows into a huge tomato plant and that alone is something that needed a Creator IMHO.

The idea that reproduction and the senses evolved over millions of years is too much for me to buy into after living half a century in a world in which everything devolves.


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## st0wandgrow (May 12, 2012)

*The idea that reproduction and the senses evolved over millions of years is too much for you to buy into ..... but a bearded man living in the clouds seems reasonable?*


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## budlover13 (May 12, 2012)

i just had a good coming of age talk with my 12 1/2 year old son in which God was discussed. He is an avid reader and knows my opinion on the fact that the Romans edited the Bible as a political propaganda tool circa 70 AD and agrees that this must be kept in mind while reading. i told him that IMO, the Bible is the greatest book in the world because of it's age, influence on history, wisdom, etc. and he decided he wanted to read it, front to back, as a family (him, my 2nd wife *not his bio mom*, and myself). So we are.


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## boneheadbob (May 12, 2012)

st0wandgrow said:


> *The idea that reproduction and the senses evolved over millions of years is too much for you to buy into ..... but a bearded man living in the clouds seems reasonable?*


The Creator of the Universe is not a bearded man, but I understand your point.. So yes the beared man sounds reasonable especially compared to the fairy tale where frogs become prince charming


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## st0wandgrow (May 12, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> The Creator of the Universe is not a bearded man, but I understand your point.. So yes the beared man sounds reasonable especially compared to the fairy tale where frogs become prince charming



I will respect your belief here, Bob. The bottom line is that none of us really know the "truth". But, I try to apply some logic and reason to all that I encounter, and the notion of a god not only doesn't pass my sniff-test, there is absolutely no proof of it what so ever. Science does indeed leave some glaring holes in the big picture, but at least there are some tangible, tested theories to hang my hat on.

As others have mentioned .... believing in a deity is intellectual laziness, imo. Offer me up something other than a book written (and re-written) by a bunch of goat herders who had no other explanation for the world around them other than "god" and you might have my ear (for a minute).


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## budlover13 (May 12, 2012)

st0wandgrow said:


> I will respect your belief here, Bob. The bottom line is that none of us really know the "truth". But, I try to apply some logic and reason to all that I encounter, and the notion of a god not only doesn't pass my sniff-test, there is absolutely no proof of it what so ever. Science does indeed leave some glaring holes in the big picture, but at least there are some tangible, tested theories to hang my hat on.
> 
> As others have mentioned .... believing in a deity is intellectual laziness, imo. Offer me up something other than a book written (and re-written) by a bunch of goat herders who had no other explanation for the world around them other than "god" and you might have my ear (for a minute).


It's all in perception imo. i'm a 38 year old man with a past in surveying/engineering and i see an intelligent Creator's work all around me because i can't fathom all the mathematic synchronicity(sp?) that is all around us without someone having put it in motion with a plan. Remember, i'm blue-print oriented and have seen how quickly things can go bad because of an error in math.


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## st0wandgrow (May 12, 2012)

budlover13 said:


> It's all in perception imo. i'm a 38 year old man with a past in surveying/engineering and i see an intelligent Creator's work all around me because i can't fathom all the mathematic synchronicity(sp?) that is all around us without someone having put it in motion with a plan. Remember, i'm blue-print oriented and have seen how quickly things can go bad because of an error in math.


And I'm just a dumb fuck that hated math and science growing up, and yet I believe in the theory of evolution.

Ironic, isn't it?

Have a great weekend budlover!


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## Heisenberg (May 12, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> To me personally life is so astounding and unreal and the more I "study" it the more I see the Creator behind the curtain. Even planting veggies astounds me. Some seeds are so tiny I need to put my glasses on. It grows into a huge tomato plant and that alone is something that needed a Creator IMHO.
> 
> The idea that reproduction and the senses evolved over millions of years is too much for me to buy into after living half a century in a world in which everything devolves.





budlover13 said:


> It's all in perception imo. i'm a 38 year old man with a past in surveying/engineering and i see an intelligent Creator's work all around me because i can't fathom all the mathematic synchronicity(sp?) that is all around us without someone having put it in motion with a plan. Remember, i'm blue-print oriented and have seen how quickly things can go bad because of an error in math.


I realize you guys are stating your opinion and not trying to write some textbook with official answers. Here is my opinion on your opinions.

You guys are essentially saying, "I can't explain this, therefore I can explain this." Your only justification for using god as an explanation is ignorance. Not saying you guys are ignorant...I am saying that you are pointing to ignorance, to the lack of knowledge, and using that lack of knowledge as a basis to draw a conclusion. Can you think of any other area where the argument from ignorance turned out to be valid? This is what we call non-logic.

Do you not see the irrationality in going from 'unexplained' to 'explained by god' with no logic in the middle?

And of course this brings up the problem of infinite regress. If the universe is so complicated as to need a creator, wouldn't that creator be even more complicated himself? If this creator is more complicated, and we have already established that complication needs a design, then who designed the creator? Did he have an even more complicated designer which needs designing? Or was the creator brought about by random natural events? It would seem odd to accept randomness in the case of the creator but not the universe, since the creator is even more complicated. When we think about it this way, we see creationism compounds the problem rather than supplying us with answers.



The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that essentially relies on a lack of imagination in the audience.


The general form of the argument is as follows.


Major premise: One can't imagine (or has not imagined) how P could be so.
Minor premise (unstated): If P were so, one could imagine (or would have imagined) how.
Conclusion: Not-P.

As an example, creationists incessantly use some difficult-to-explain facet of biology as "proof" of a creator. The problem is that, though there is no non-design explanation for how precisely a certain organ could have evolved at the moment, one may be discovered in the future. Contrary to the instincts of many creationists, lack of an explanation does not justify confecting whatever explanation one would prefer. The inexplicable is just that, and does not justify speculation as proof.


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## budlover13 (May 12, 2012)

st0wandgrow said:


> And I'm just a dumb fuck that hated math and science growing up, and yet I believe in the theory of evolution.
> 
> Ironic, isn't it?
> 
> Have a great weekend budlover!


i wasn't implying anything about education or intelligence. Just pointing out how my experiences affect my perception.

i think this weekend WILL be great. Able to medicate for the first time since Jan 7th AND just in time to medicate for the annual family Mother's Day lunch tomorrow so i can deal with it lol. Also got my son's Boyscout community service event bagging food for care packages at the community homeless shelter today. After that i'm going to a buddy's place to BBQ, smoke, drink a couple beers and watch the Nascar race .

i think this may very well be a GREAT weekend!


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## boneheadbob (May 12, 2012)

Actually it is much simpler then that, my friend.

I drank and drugged from 15 to 35 and it got worse and worse untill I was on the pity pot wanting to die. Drinking all the time, a real sad site to see, then I read something my ex wrote that made me go to AA.

A week later I met Christians, asked Christ into my life, asked for help quitting drinking and I felt something well up inside of me at that moment and I have not had a drink since then, coming up on 20 years.

I am aware that many believe my experiance was not really JC and that it was physcological however I feel just as strong that it was Jesus and nothing has shaken my faith.




Heisenberg said:


> I realize you guys are stating your opinion and not trying to write some textbook with official answers. Here is my opinion on your opinions.
> 
> You guys are essentially saying, "I can't explain this, therefore I can explain this." Your only justification for using god as an explanation is ignorance. Not saying you guys are ignorant...I am saying that you are pointing to ignorance, to the lack of knowledge, and using that lack of knowledge as a basis to draw a conclusion. Can you think of any other area where the argument from ignorance turned out to be valid? This is what we call non-logic.
> 
> ...


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## Heisenberg (May 12, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> Actually it is much simpler then that, my friend.
> 
> I drank and drugged from 15 to 35 and it got worse and worse untill I was on the pity pot wanting to die. Drinking all the time, a real sad site to see, then I read something my ex wrote that made me go to AA.
> 
> ...


Well Bob, if you do not expect your experience to mean anything to anyone else besides you, then there is no problem. I did not have your experience so there is no way for me to say you are wrong or right. But for the same reason, I did not have your experience, It can not mean anything to me.


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## mindphuk (May 12, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> Actually it is much simpler then that, my friend.
> 
> I drank and drugged from 15 to 35 and it got worse and worse untill I was on the pity pot wanting to die. Drinking all the time, a real sad site to see, then I read something my ex wrote that made me go to AA.
> 
> ...


Please, don't think I am making light of your recovery from booze but I too was in AA & NA. I too had what I thought were spiritual experiences but never Jesus because I was never brought up believing in Jesus. Others have personal spiritual experiences of gods of their religion whether Hindi, Muslim, or whatever. Why is that? If Jesus is the real god, then we should all have Jesus experiences regardless of our upbringing, don't you think?

AA teaches us very quickly that in order to recover from alcoholism, we MUST have a spiritual awakening. When I went to meetings, abstinence from all mood altering substances was required, including cannabis. I don't drink anymore but I do smoke as I'm sure you do since you're here. It's funny how god is so concerned over whether people drink or not that he intervenes in their life to help them stop but he won't intervene for other similarly or even more important things. 

Sorry, but personal spiritual experiences are not going to be convincing to others. In any conversation where we are tasked with trying to convince others that our ideas are correct, i.e. debates, internal thoughts and feelings are worthless.


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## trichome fiend (May 12, 2012)

[youtube]UF3yb1g30Io[/youtube]


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## RawBudzski (May 12, 2012)

*God should have picked a better publisher.*


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## boneheadbob (May 12, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Well Bob, if you do not expect your experience to mean anything to anyone else besides you, then there is no problem. I did not have your experience so there is no way for me to say you are wrong or right. But for the same reason, I did not have your experience, It can not mean anything to me.


You dont help many people in AA by preaching. All you can do is share your story. What you were like, what happened and what you are like now.
My experiance may not mean much here but it may bring hope to suffering alkies in the proper setting and I dont beat people with the Bible


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## mindphuk (May 12, 2012)

boneheadbob said:


> You dont help many people in AA by preaching. All you can do is share your story. What you were like, what happened and what you are like now.
> My experiance may not mean much here but it may bring hope to suffering alkies in the proper setting and I dont beat people with the Bible


In the AA meetings around here it is highly frowned upon to speak of a specific deity whether it is Jesus, Yahweh, Allah or Ganesh.


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## bombasticson (May 12, 2012)

You are speaking blasphemy... There is no God without the bible. Funny that you say this because I always said I believe in the bible but not religion because religion is what currupts peoples minds... Look at those arabs the believe that when they die they will have 1000 virgins, did you know thats not even in the muslim bible that was created by the muslim religion they twist things in religion but the bible is the only source to wisdom.


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## tyler.durden (May 12, 2012)

bombasticson said:


> You are speaking blasphemy... There is no God without the bible. Funny that you say this because I always said I believe in the bible but not religion because religion is what currupts peoples minds... Look at those arabs the believe that when they die they will have 1000 virgins, did you know thats not even in the muslim bible that was created by the muslim religion they twist things in religion but the bible is the only source to wisdom.


There are so many gods, the one that means the most to any individual depends on when and where they are born: Zeus to the ancient Greeks, Wotan to the Vikings, Vishnu to the Hindus, and the popular Abrahamic god of the jews, christians, and muslims. So, there is obviously god without the bible, LOTS of them. Any claim to absolute truth has the potential to corrupt minds, especially when it is packaged to be so easy and convenient (believe in A and happily live forever, believe in not-A and we'll set you on fire). There is little 'wisdom' in the bible that is original, most of its lessons are similar to many other religions and cultures, some of which predate the bible by centuries. So, we can see the the bible isn't the _only_ source to wisdom...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 12, 2012)

bombasticson said:


> You are speaking blasphemy... There is no God without the bible. Funny that you say this because I always said I believe in the bible but not religion because religion is what currupts peoples minds... Look at those arabs the believe that when they die they will have 1000 virgins, did you know thats not even in the muslim bible that was created by the muslim religion they twist things in religion but the bible is the only source to wisdom.


"I believe in the bible but not religion" ... You have the same logic as this guy 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

Though I am not atheist, I only recently found out about the Amazing Atheist and he may be annoying at times but I like his opinions on religion. You cannot separate the bible and christianity.


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## bombasticson (May 12, 2012)

...All of those other bibles dont add up man, the king james bible in revelations tell you exactly what will take place in the end times and sure enough everything that was said in the bible is turning out to be true. The bible said that Israel would always be at war, also said that there will come a time when the whole world is unified which has already started with facebook and twitter. What other bible can tell you things that actually happen


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## mindphuk (May 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> "I believe in the bible but not religion" ... You have the same logic as this guy
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY
> 
> Though I am not atheist, I only recently found out about the Amazing Atheist and he may be annoying at times but I like his opinions on religion. You cannot separate the bible and christianity.


There's hope for you yet.  
I also find him annoying at times but he is usually spot-on.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 13, 2012)

Just thought i would share.


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## InCognition (May 14, 2012)

Lets cut to the chase here.


Absolute belief in God = closed minded

Absolute belief in no God = closed minded

Close minded = ignorant

Ignorant = don't really know what you're talking about

Don't really know what you're talking about = stop talking for your own sake


On another note, what is the bible or any of it's counterparts worth? There seems to be hundreds of variants of the so called "Bible", under hundreds of different religions. We are all one people, regardless of our location/race/age/etc.... so a lot of people fucked up along the way when they decided to write hundreds of conflicting versions of what is essentially a "law book for morality".

If someone thinks for one second, the piece of dirt they were born on, or their race, somehow binds them to one out of the many specific "rule books", we call the bible/koran/etc., they got their head so far up their ass, it's not worth trying to explain anything logical with that individual.


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## MellowFarmer (May 18, 2012)

Hi Chief, I've honestly been wondering this and please forgive my assumptions? I am assuming by your name that you are a Native American? If I am right, I don't get why you are not more spiritually aligned with the more common Native Spirituality of Nature instead of believing another white men's lie? I get these weird ponderings stuck in my head, again I apoligise for assumptions.


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## cannofbliss (May 18, 2012)

here you'll appreciate this video then... 

[video=youtube;qahB7mYhLxs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qahB7mYhLxs&amp;ob=av3e[/video]


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## cockbag123 (May 18, 2012)

the bible is the book that tells us there is a god. without that book nobody would know the word "god" or believe in a superhuman force living in the clouds or whatever. you seem confused. for the record i think any belief in a big man in the clouds or the bible or the chruch is absolutely ridiculous and a waste of time that could be spent living. on the other hand i do stick to some of the simple values of the book, dont kill ppl, dont be an asshole and try to be a decent human being. i was a devout christian in my younger years and no amount of praying etc ever helped me with shit. i did it all myself. and dont give me this shit that god gave me the willpower to do it myself. because i did. the end.


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## MellowFarmer (May 18, 2012)

This is hands down the best most applicable metaphor - pass it on so we may all get along?

_Beliefs are like penises. I don't give a rat's ass if you want to worship it and talk about it to your friends just please Don't whip it out and wag it in our faces or our children's_


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## polyarcturus (May 18, 2012)

the bible is a tool wriiten by man distributed by man and made in mans "image" making it faulty in the first place. i dont believe in god the way most poeple do but if i was the first sentence of this post explains exactly how to correctly worship god. YOU WORSHIP HIM, NOT THE BIBLE. so forget about the bible because it is a tool to control masses. even if it is true, god would hate his own books by now. they are start of so many deaths.....


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 18, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> Hi Chief, I've honestly been wondering this and please forgive my assumptions? I am assuming by your name that you are a Native American? If I am right, I don't get why you are not more spiritually aligned with the more common Native Spirituality of Nature instead of believing another white men's lie? I get these weird ponderings stuck in my head, again I apoligise for assumptions.


White mans lies? I am no follower of white lies. From what my spiritual friend told me he said that Natives had it right about spirituality and the "creator". I'd like to think that they had it right too, just by the fact that they were free of disease, they took care of mother earth and she took care of them. In a way my spiritual beliefs are a lot like my ancestors, everything is one, a collective consciousness. I just wish our culture wasnt destroyed, theres so much I could of learned from it. I have yet to meet a spiritually in touch native in my neck of the woods (besides my spiritual friend) they are all christian and I find it sickening that so many of us natives submit to jesus even though jesus was so savagely forced upon us.


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## MellowFarmer (May 18, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> White mans lies? I am no follower of white lies. From what my spiritual friend told me he said that Natives had it right about spirituality and the "creator". I'd like to think that they had it right too, just by the fact that they were free of disease, they took care of mother earth and she took care of them. In a way my spiritual beliefs are a lot like my ancestors, everything is one, a collective consciousness. I just wish our culture wasnt destroyed, theres so much I could of learned from it. I have yet to meet a spiritually in touch native in my neck of the woods (besides my spiritual friend) they are all christian and I find it sickening that so many of us natives submit to jesus even though jesus was so savagely forced upon us.


I have this feeling, only because of where I was born along with a natural sense towards what I've seen of Native Spirituality that my Quebecois Grand Mother was basically screwing the pool boy, a Native lad (French & Indian War? My neck of woods originally, Canada border) and of course I will never prove he is really my Great grandfather and I'll never prove it and it is likely wishful day dream thinking especially considering my grandmother's dumping in an orphanage with her siblings doesn't seem to scream _pool boy _ :blush: I guess I am fortunate. As some comedian, Chappelle? pointed out, it is rare to see 1 'Indian' and a miracle to see 2 and the ones I knew were Real MoFo's true to the core to their culture (I did meet them in college at my Native Studies Class) Any way, thank you for your response, I too wish the same


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## BigJon (May 18, 2012)

The best religions deny being religions and deny that they're better than any philosophy.


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## st0wandgrow (May 18, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> White mans lies? I am no follower of white lies. From what my spiritual friend told me he said that Natives had it right about spirituality and the "creator". I'd like to think that they had it right too, just by the fact that they were free of disease, they took care of mother earth and she took care of them. In a way my spiritual beliefs are a lot like my ancestors, everything is one, a collective consciousness. I just wish our culture wasnt destroyed, theres so much I could of learned from it. I have yet to meet a spiritually in touch native in my neck of the woods (besides my spiritual friend) they are all christian and I find it sickening that so many of us natives submit to jesus even though jesus was so savagely forced upon us.


Free of disease?

Can you connect the dots for me please?


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## cockbag123 (May 18, 2012)

polyarcturus said:


> the bible is a tool wriiten by man distributed by man and made in mans "image" making it faulty in the first place. i dont believe in god the way most poeple do but if i was the first sentence of this post explains exactly how to correctly worship god. YOU WORSHIP HIM, NOT THE BIBLE. so forget about the bible because it is a tool to control masses. even if it is true, god would hate his own books by now. they are start of so many deaths.....


and thats another good point. all religion does is cause war... god bless


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 18, 2012)

st0wandgrow said:


> Free of disease?
> 
> Can you connect the dots for me please?


Im not that cultured, but from what I learned my ancestors were very clean and healthy people. I dont know if they were totally free of disease but they had very little thats for sure. We quickly caught what ever illnesses the Europeans brought over during their long and filthy ship ride over here and our immune system couldnt defend against it because the diseases were foreign to us. I think thats the story lol.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 18, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I have this feeling, only because of where I was born along with a natural sense towards what I've seen of Native Spirituality that my Quebecois Grand Mother was basically screwing the pool boy, a Native lad (French & Indian War? My neck of woods originally, Canada border) and of course I will never prove he is really my Great grandfather and I'll never prove it and it is likely wishful day dream thinking especially considering my grandmother's dumping in an orphanage with her siblings doesn't seem to scream _pool boy _ :blush: I guess I am fortunate. As some comedian, Chappelle? pointed out, it is rare to see 1 'Indian' and a miracle to see 2 and the ones I knew were Real MoFo's true to the core to their culture (I did meet them in college at my Native Studies Class) Any way, thank you for your response, I too wish the same


Im guessing your living in America? Theres a lot more Natives here in western Canada, same with the rest of Canada I guess, I guess thats because they focused on brain washing us instead of genocide lol. Its not true that I never met a spiritual native, I have but they were more passionate about dancing and singing instead of spirituality, because a lot of that knowledge was lost I guess. Theres even some trickery in some of the ritual I took part in like with sweat lodges. Though you do feel super clean and great after the intense steam, the blue flashes of light (in darkness) were not spirits, it was some kinda of powder that the elder threw on to the stones. And a few of the younger guys would cry and moan and then try to say that it was the spirits communicating through them. I knew one of them to be a jokester so I didnt believe that one bit. But there might of been a bit of a spiritual experience in that sweat lodge because you do feel great afterwards, I dont know though. It seems that Native Americans from the U.S are more cultured and kept a good chunk of their spiritual knowledge from what I seen of them. I seen a bunch of spiritual Native quotes online from elders and chiefs and they say so much with very few words, those are the natives I have yet to meet.


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## ginjawarrior (May 19, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> White mans lies? I am no follower of white lies. From what my spiritual friend told me he said that Natives had it right about spirituality and the "creator". I'd like to think that they had it right too, just by the fact that they were free of disease, they took care of mother earth and she took care of them. In a way my spiritual beliefs are a lot like my ancestors, everything is one, a collective consciousness. I just wish our culture wasnt destroyed, theres so much I could of learned from it. I have yet to meet a spiritually in touch native in my neck of the woods (besides my spiritual friend) they are all christian and I find it sickening that so many of us natives submit to jesus even though jesus was so savagely forced upon us.


while they didn't have the immune system for the diseases the european brought over i very much doubt they were disease free


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 19, 2012)

ginjawarrior said:


> while they didn't have the immune system for the diseases the european brought over i very much doubt they were disease free


Read what I said to st0w.


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## MellowFarmer (May 22, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Im guessing your living in America? Theres a lot more Natives here in western Canada, same with the rest of Canada I guess, I guess thats because they focused on brain washing us instead of genocide lol. Its not true that I never met a spiritual native, I have but they were more passionate about dancing and singing instead of spirituality, because a lot of that knowledge was lost I guess. Theres even some trickery in some of the ritual I took part in like with sweat lodges. Though you do feel super clean and great after the intense steam, the blue flashes of light (in darkness) were not spirits, it was some kinda of powder that the elder threw on to the stones. And a few of the younger guys would cry and moan and then try to say that it was the spirits communicating through them. I knew one of them to be a jokester so I didnt believe that one bit. But there might of been a bit of a spiritual experience in that sweat lodge because you do feel great afterwards, I dont know though. It seems that Native Americans from the U.S are more cultured and kept a good chunk of their spiritual knowledge from what I seen of them. I seen a bunch of spiritual Native quotes online from elders and chiefs and they say so much with very few words, those are the natives I have yet to meet.


Thank you Chief! You have solved one of those things that linger in my head as just not making sense! I grew up Right on the border -The Tribe (PM me if you want more specifics) is literally half on our side, half on yours and I never met any Natives there who gave any inclination they preferred their own culture, but I was young, I still can't say anything except it wasn't apparent. It was in college in CA,where I met these Natives, again in a Native American Studies class so That isn't really saying All in the are were. But it has been in my head as a stark difference between growing up and college so I say your Theory holds a bit of water.


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## eye exaggerate (May 22, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Im guessing your living in America? Theres a lot more Natives here in western Canada, same with the rest of Canada I guess, I guess thats because they focused on brain washing us instead of genocide lol. Its not true that I never met a spiritual native, *I have but they were more passionate about dancing and singing instead of spirituality, because a lot of that knowledge was lost I guess.* Theres even some trickery in some of the ritual I took part in like with sweat lodges. Though you do feel super clean and great after the intense steam, the blue flashes of light (in darkness) were not spirits, it was some kinda of powder that the elder threw on to the stones. And a few of the younger guys would cry and moan and then try to say that it was the spirits communicating through them. I knew one of them to be a jokester so I didnt believe that one bit. But there might of been a bit of a spiritual experience in that sweat lodge because you do feel great afterwards, I dont know though. It seems that Native Americans from the U.S are more cultured and kept a good chunk of their spiritual knowledge from what I seen of them. I seen a bunch of spiritual Native quotes online from elders and chiefs and they say so much with very few words, those are the natives I have yet to meet.


...they still dance to get into a trance state. It's like that old rave scene but with mountains and chicken's foot necklaces instead of roller rinks and neon sticks


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 22, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...they still dance to get into a trance state. It's like that old rave scene but with mountains and chicken's foot necklaces instead of roller rinks and neon sticks


lol I guess your right. I do find the drumming and our scream style of singing empowering in a way.


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## Cannikid (May 22, 2012)

Had no idea this thread was still going on. End all debate: Why do all religions have the same basic core values? They are super basic ie; be nice to each other, don't lie. These basic core values are the only ones that are emphasized today, but that was not always the case. Modern day religions have become a joke and there are examples of it everyday across the world. For example of some of these heads of religion not following what they preach, look at the accusations of child molestation among the Catholic clergy. Even more ridiculous examples of religion picking and choosing what to follow are every where. Ever pick up the Old Testament? The Jewish follow the same biblical events as Christians they just don't believe Jesus Christ was the massiah. From there Christianity decided to branch off and not believe in the Sabboth day and do away with other values they did not agree with. They don't follow the diet of Kosher foods as decreed by Moses because they believe the are no longer under the laws of Moses. Even though those were not the rules of Moses but could be said that they were the rules of God. These are just a few contradictions many can be found between Old and New Testaments. There are so many similarities between religions and I think this is due to years of devotion and self reflection that lead to the ultimate human condition. We are all instilled with these laws even if we were not brought up around religion. I believe religion and the books of faith are meant to teach the masses good values through stories and worship. These events in the bible could possibly be true, but why don't we treat it like history and learn from it instead of fighting over it. Why are the Jewish people right and the Muslim people wrong, at least that's what the US thinks because we are supporting them and have been for ages. Excuse my babbling that's what happens when you start thinking of such a deep topic while high. Just so many connections.


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## newbyy (Sep 2, 2012)

actually god can be found in science too. but not a personal god. as Einstein says, god is the fundamental principals of Physics. and as Michio Kaku says. god is a particle resonating Through 11th dimensional Hyperspace. and therefor it is not believing in god but knowing about Science


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## dwight smokum (Sep 27, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Please, don't think I am making light of your recovery from booze but I too was in AA & NA. I too had what I thought were spiritual experiences but never Jesus because I was never brought up believing in Jesus. Others have personal spiritual experiences of gods of their religion whether Hindi, Muslim, or whatever. Why is that? If Jesus is the real god, then we should all have Jesus experiences regardless of our upbringing, don't you think?
> 
> AA teaches us very quickly that in order to recover from alcoholism, we MUST have a spiritual awakening. When I went to meetings, abstinence from all mood altering substances was required, including cannabis. I don't drink anymore but I do smoke as I'm sure you do since you're here. It's funny how god is so concerned over whether people drink or not that he intervenes in their life to help them stop but he won't intervene for other similarly or even more important things.
> 
> Sorry, but personal spiritual experiences are not going to be convincing to others. In any conversation where we are tasked with trying to convince others that our ideas are correct, i.e. debates, internal thoughts and feelings are worthless.


 i can relate to most everything you've said..1st off i'm 18 years sober in aa but to me personally all the religious stuff is laughable.. that doesnt mean i'd laugh at or about anyones beliefs. far from it. got all the respect in the world for all people to think any way they want to. had a real hard time the higher power thing for several years but it finally worked itself out. just for today my hp is the concept,group,etc, of alcoholics anonymous. my job is to keep an open mind because i dont know shit. i'm a different person today than i was 18 yrs ago. dont believe it has anything to do with the bible or religion....a bunch of sober drunks taught me about love and it saved my ass....great thread fellows!


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## budlover13 (Sep 27, 2012)

i once had a close friend and supervisor tell me "I ain't no alcoholic! Alcoholics go to meetings. I'm a fucking DRUNK! The only meeting i need is that cold beer meeting my mouth!"

RIP Jim Lukens. i love and miss you you crooked-dick, cantankerous, old, son of a bitch!


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## Doer (Oct 2, 2012)

How does one even know about God to believe it? What do you believe God is? 

What would you think of it, if there were no bible?


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## MonsterBuzz (Oct 6, 2012)

i dont believe in any religion. But i do believe that there is an ultimate creator.

lol but who created the creator???


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## Geronimo420 (Oct 6, 2012)

I believe in God but not the Bible well this is actually the opposite of my own belief I really believe theres a Bible & no God


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## cannabineer (Oct 7, 2012)

MonsterBuzz said:


> i dont believe in any religion. But i do believe that there is an ultimate creator.
> 
> lol but who created the creator???



...turtles all the way down.  cn


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## HigherGround (Oct 20, 2012)

*I believe there isn't some story book ending like the bible says. Our minds cannot comprehend what happens because our minds don't ever leave our surrounds while where alive and are not meant to. We need to spend more time thinking of making life better for everyone to live better. And less time in an after life that doesn't exist. We exist today and now! You can continue to believe story's about living after you die with your friends and family waiting for you. Or just relies that a man put that in a book to explain things that he has no understanding of. To try and make sense of something he has no relation to. By saying there is a supernatural being, a "GOD", you can then make up whatever you want and say it's GOD's will. Better listen or your going to hell not the happy place. A great way to govern lots of people and make them fill at peace with there life in hopes of continuing to live in the after life. Think of religion as man made, as it is. Take GOD out of the equation and you have a government. A set of guidelines with a mysterious and intriguing story. A story so intriguing it stuck in peoples head. You can go on and on about diff. religions and how a king decided what went into the bible that we read today of all the 40+ authors. But, that would take a life time and I'd rather ENJOY MY LIFE! If theirs a GOD I'm sure it isn't raciest and only likes Americans because there christian. Lol. *


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## gioua (Oct 20, 2012)

HigherGround said:


> * If theirs a GOD I'm sure it isn't raciest and only likes Americans because there christen. Lol. *



Christians are worldwide. Not JUST here in the US.. infact... I recall it being started in another country before US was a thought


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## FresnoFarmer (Oct 20, 2012)

American's are christen?


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## HigherGround (Oct 20, 2012)

I to was once a follower of Christ. Totally joking. You know you wont go to hell if you have a sense of humor. Lol! I k ow theirs Christians everywhere. I'm all for the people that would loose there mind s if they didn't have a purpose to attend church. And look down on all the people that don't share there correct way of worshiping that they do. I know G.O.D. majored in accounting. Got to have that 10%. What about those poor children that get rapped by there pastors. Where was a G.O.D.! Sleeping!?! Get real! Take control of your life and actions. Your going to be waiting a long time for G.O.D to show up and save you.


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