# flowering on 6 light / 18 dark question



## Relaxed (Jul 30, 2009)

Ok I've now seen in writing now 2 very well thought of seedbanks that use 6/18 flower with great results. Can the experienced openly discuss please? Pros/cons.... Sounds like a great way to save electricity. I got not problem mentioning my internet reading....Subcool and Elite seedbanks.


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## KP2 (Jul 30, 2009)

you sure it wasn't 18/6 veg cycle? please paste the articles here.


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## hippiepudz024 (Jul 30, 2009)

weird ive never heard of that before, Maybe its good, you should leave some pics or links to website's that support this information +rep


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## Relaxed (Jul 30, 2009)

I know for a fact about Elite but I am not going to his web site to search for obvious reasons in flower not veg. Very clear on that one....He mentioned it reduces bud growth very little vs electicity bills and used it 100% of the time so his pics. of awesome plants used that way. If you dare search the Elite web site it's in there in a thread someplace where he talks about his growing op?

I saw the comment on a Subcool thread as few days ago but my search has not come up with the person or link. I asked in a Subcool thread for reference help to be determined.


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## RickWhite (Jul 30, 2009)

Are you talking about doing 12 hours light with 4 hours dark to get three light cycles in a 48 hour period? Craventes mentiones that in the bible but I can't figure out how to make the timer do it.


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## chitownsmoking (Jul 30, 2009)

6 hours of artificial light is not gonna yield you too good


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## Boulderheads (Jul 30, 2009)

I heard from an old grower that you could do a 6 on 12 off schedule and would not affect yield much. I think they make digital timers that you can program for each day and have it repeat. So that way you could program everything in accordance to when you needed the lights to come on. First week would go something like this

Day 1 On 12:00am-6am Off 6am-6pm On6pm-12:00am
Day 2 Off 12:00am-12:00pm On 12:00pm-6:00pm Off 6:00-12:00am
Day 3 Off 12:00am-6:00am On 6:00am-12:00pm Off 12:00pm-12:00am
Day 4 On 12:00am-6am Off 6am-6pm On6pm-12:00am
Day 5 Off 12:00am-12:00pm On 12:00pm-6:00pm Off 6:00-12:00am
Day 6 Off 12:00am-6:00am On 6:00am-12:00pm Off 12:00pm-12:00am
Day 7 On 12:00am-6am Off 6am-6pm On6pm-12:00am

If you notice the cycle repeates every 3 full days


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## Boulderheads (Jul 31, 2009)

In a 7 day period you would have 10 light cycles...does that mean you could take a 60 day plant and finish it in 42???


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## Boulderheads (Jul 31, 2009)

I would love to see a side by side comparison of the same strain, same lights, same everything except 1 be 12/12 the whole way through, and 1 take on the 6 hours on 12 off approach


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## superdave5 (Jul 31, 2009)

interesting!


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## RickWhite (Jul 31, 2009)

Wat would be the benefit of depriving your plants of light?


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## Boulderheads (Jul 31, 2009)

I was told the plants can do everything they need to with only 6 hours. So if they can do their job in 6, why give them 12 is the thought. I am not claiming this as fact, only that an older wiser person than I told me this. You could harvest that much faster, by cycling the lights that way. Hopefully someone will want to try, if I had the space for a separate flower cab I would def cut some clones and try it out. Hopefully someone has tried this before and can let us all know.


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## nellyatcha (Jul 31, 2009)

Boulderheads said:


> I heard from an old grower that you could do a 6 on 12 off schedule and would not affect yield much. I think they make digital timers that you can program for each day and have it repeat. So that way you could program everything in accordance to when you needed the lights to come on. First week would go something like this
> 
> Day 1 On 12:00am-6am Off 6am-6pm On6pm-12:00am
> Day 2 Off 12:00am-12:00pm On 12:00pm-6:00pm Off 6:00-12:00am
> ...


 
yea i seen some shit like that before but thats supposed to make it yield more, but also add more time to flowering by a week or 2 from what i read


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## Boulderheads (Jul 31, 2009)

Gotcha.. you remember where you read that by chance. Not saying you are wrong I would just like to see for myself


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## Relaxed (Aug 1, 2009)

I like the discussion that has started. Someone with a larger grow op needs to chim in and help us do a side by side research project on this topic. Marketing research is in effect here......Clearly Seedbanks are using this idea and most likely for less electric cost vs. bud end result take appears to be very good. Maybe they are using 1000 watt grow ops or less? Appears we have a plant that does it's work and a lot of it's work based on dark cycle starting to reproduce vs. die. Such as light grows leaves while dark grows roots and maybe bud? While i understand bigger and better lights produce more and thicker bud there just may be a correlation between how plants grow in the dark part that helps even steven some of the grow cycle. We are dealing with nature here boys/girls so let's open our eyes to the dark cycle part as well in research. I have friends with masters in horticulture that would sure to be a great assistance to the topic as we are dealing with a plant that has same characteristics as reproducing legal annuals/perennials like roses of plants in every garden center like hd or lowes. Getting deep hear but let's explore together. Maybe we are on to a compromise of good bud and half the light cost (great cost in summer) to explore....Help me with this guys...


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## Gdaddy (Aug 1, 2009)

I'm not scared, I just had the same disccusion over at potpimp. Interesting shit
http://elitegenetics.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/958319-how-many-1ks-could-i-run-


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## Boulderheads (Aug 1, 2009)

Cool!! Yeah I say the more brains we get on this subject the better. It would be beneficial to have someone compare 400w 600w 1000w and possibly even some t5's during flower on the different light cycles. This way we could determine whether it was subject to light intensity. Maybe the plants can only get away with 6 hrs. if 600w or more is used. Maybe it works accross the entire scale. Anyway, I think we need to get some sort of comparison going here. I will be ready to try come november with a 1000.. so if anyone else can help out I say lets make this thing happen, unless someone can validate or deny this claim is even plausible.


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## Boulderheads (Aug 1, 2009)

Hey Gdaddy, check out the discussion over on that site you listed. He is saying he uses 18 hours off... I wonder if he would think my time schedule would make any difference. The reason that most of us do 12/12 is cuz the plant needs ATLEAST 12 hours of darkness to stay in flower mode. I wonder if elite trimmed his 18 hrs off to 12 hrs off if he would see the increase in yield come back. Maybe my theory is stupid, but I was thinking you might be able to trick the plant into flowering faster....(plants don't read a calendar like we do, they go from lights on to lights off = 1day.... So if you could use my light schedule you could make the plant think 10 days had passed when in reality only 7 human days had passed. Anyways feel free to pick that idea apart.


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## Gdaddy (Aug 1, 2009)

See a friend of mine tried this a few yeard ago and i don't remember it having any affect on flowering time or quality only the yeild was decreased from the previous 12/12, but it wasn't my operation and I wasn't really involved so maybe I'm wrong and the flowering time was shortened. I know the quality was the same as his other harvests because I bought and smoked plenty of it seemed the same, and i definitely remember him saying he got less than usual but saved a ton on electric so it worked out ok. I don't know it was a while ago and i guess the details are kind of fuzzy.

Anyway I'm definitely interested in it. i've got some going into flowering in about a month under a 1000k and i got DESTROYED by the electric co. last time around, ended up paying around $2000 in just electric by the time I was finished, and didn't recoup anyways near that much. This time i vegged under flouros and am going to start out at 12/12 in flower and knock it back to 10/14 or so after a few weeks. Any less than that makes me a little nervous because I HAVE to come out ahead on $ this time around or I'm fucked, so I'm going to be a little cautious.


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## Relaxed (Aug 1, 2009)

Good stuff...For this type experiment you might contact a nut. company like Adv. Nuts. and maybe even Remo and talk to him about your experiment. Ask if they have researched this tool and tieing them in by publicity using their nut line. Positioned correctly they might provide free nuts. on a test like this? Sure they would like the pub. At the end of the day we know using less light hrs is less cost but it's the trade off in how much bud? If the dark cycle is that important maybe not?


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## DaveTheNewbie (Aug 1, 2009)

im dubious, but open minded and keen to hear from someone who knows


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## shadywolf (Aug 1, 2009)

good questions by all. i have been using a 10hr day, had to as i had light leaking in when i started on 12/12, so they were back and fourth veg flwr veg flwr.
so cut out the light and put on the 10/14 to force start flowering.plants on a 6 hour day will def reduce your yeild by as mch as half. wat you must take into account is although plants can do wat they need to in a 6 hr day they also need to recieve as much energy as possible to have full ripe buds which is why we leave on the big fan leaves for the energy given from the light.imagine it this way feed yourself for 8 weeks with half your normal food intake what happens? you will feel less healthy tired etc etc same with the plants my friend they need plenty of energy to give a strong healty crop.
obviously with different watt lights you will get different results but come on think about it your growing for 1 of 2 reasons money or personal and either way you want the best crop poss. dnt starve your plants of what they crave they wont be happy and will let you know about it.


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## RickWhite (Aug 1, 2009)

If your electric bill is that high you are likely using an old malfunctioning ballast. To reduce electric cost, get a good electronic ballast.

The point of the 12 hour dark period is to cause a photochemical response by the plant that causes flowering. Once that is accomplished, the plant should be supplied with as much light as possible. Are there diminishing returns? Maybe - I don't know. A large seed bank has a different goal in mind so that isn't really relevant info.

I could be wrong but it sounds like depriving a flowering plant of as much light as possible is an unsound practice. I think the question should be can we somehow shorten the dark period and not adversely affect the flowering hormones.


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## fried at 420 (Aug 1, 2009)

thats wat i do is 18/6 now cuz im vegging seedlings


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## fried at 420 (Aug 1, 2009)

then ima switch it for flowering for 6/18


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## Gdaddy (Aug 1, 2009)

Well my ballast is basically brand new, only used for one grow cycle so far. I wish I had gotten a 600w electronic, it would be enough for my space and would have helped keep the temp in check, but i went with the 1000w instead because i thought I should get the more powerful set up since the cost was basically the same.

The deal with the electricity bill is around here, maybe everywhere for all I know, the more you use the more they charge per killowatt. Say for an example 10c per killowatt up to x amount, after that amount they charge 17c per kw, then 22c per kw after another usage limit, I can't remember if those figures are correct but just an example. I was growing in the middle of winter and my house as electric heat plus I was vegging 24/0 under a 1000w for 2 months and then 12/12 for another 2 1/2 months so all of a sudden my bill tripled even though I wasn't using triple the amount of electricity. It fucking sucked.


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## Relaxed (Aug 1, 2009)

Gdaddy said:


> Well my ballast is basically brand new, only used for one grow cycle so far. I wish I had gotten a 600w electronic, it would be enough for my space and would have helped keep the temp in check, but i went with the 1000w instead because i thought I should get the more powerful set up since the cost was basically the same.
> 
> The deal with the electricity bill is around here, maybe everywhere for all I know, the more you use the more they charge per killowatt. Say for an example 10c per killowatt up to x amount, after that amount they charge 17c per kw, then 22c per kw after another usage limit, I can't remember if those figures are correct but just an example. I was growing in the middle of winter and my house as electric heat plus I was vegging 24/0 under a 1000w for 2 months and then 12/12 for another 2 1/2 months so all of a sudden my bill tripled even though I wasn't using triple the amount of electricity. It fucking sucked.


holly shit think u should check out t5s for veg save $$ with good results


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## Boulderheads (Aug 1, 2009)

I know my OD crop does not get more than 6-8 hours of direct sunlight at all, cuz all the surrounding vegetation is twice as tall. They look wonderful even though they don't get full sun all day. Maybe as someone mentioned before, if you have a large room and run 1 light for 6 hours, then the other for 6 hours. This way they are getting 12 hrs of light, but only 6 of direct, 6 indirect. And you could keep the 12 hours the same but still use half the power than using both lights at the same time. I am sure this is going to take lotsa experimentation. But I am in for the long haul. Lets try to figure this out.


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## RickWhite (Aug 1, 2009)

Gdaddy said:


> Well my ballast is basically brand new, only used for one grow cycle so far. I wish I had gotten a 600w electronic, it would be enough for my space and would have helped keep the temp in check, but i went with the 1000w instead because i thought I should get the more powerful set up since the cost was basically the same.
> 
> The deal with the electricity bill is around here, maybe everywhere for all I know, the more you use the more they charge per killowatt. Say for an example 10c per killowatt up to x amount, after that amount they charge 17c per kw, then 22c per kw after another usage limit, I can't remember if those figures are correct but just an example. I was growing in the middle of winter and my house as electric heat plus I was vegging 24/0 under a 1000w for 2 months and then 12/12 for another 2 1/2 months so all of a sudden my bill tripled even though I wasn't using triple the amount of electricity. It fucking sucked.


Ok, first the optimal light phase for vegging is 18 hours. Beyond that you get little in return.

Also, your vegging area should typically be 1/4 the size of your flowering area. You should read up on the sea of green method.

It sounds like there is a lot you coud improve uppon before shortening light cycles.

An experienced grower would take cuttings and root them for 3 weeks, veg for 2 weeks under say a 400W MH and them switch to 12/12 for 8 weeks. Your plants will continue to grow very fast for 2 weeks after switching to 12/12.

Also, look into light movers. They save on electric and hit the plants with light from varying angles.


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## Boulderheads (Aug 1, 2009)

Gdaddy said:


> Well my ballast is basically brand new, only used for one grow cycle so far. I wish I had gotten a 600w electronic, it would be enough for my space and would have helped keep the temp in check, but i went with the 1000w instead because i thought I should get the more powerful set up since the cost was basically the same.
> 
> The deal with the electricity bill is around here, maybe everywhere for all I know, the more you use the more they charge per killowatt. Say for an example 10c per killowatt up to x amount, after that amount they charge 17c per kw, then 22c per kw after another usage limit, I can't remember if those figures are correct but just an example. I was growing in the middle of winter and my house as electric heat plus I was vegging 24/0 under a 1000w for 2 months and then 12/12 for another 2 1/2 months so all of a sudden my bill tripled even though I wasn't using triple the amount of electricity. It fucking sucked.


Try getting a gas water heater, or switching to a tankless. Also switch out your electric dryer and electric stove for gas or propane. Add a pellet stove for the winter time to reduce electric consumption. just some ideas.


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## Gdaddy (Aug 2, 2009)

RickWhite said:


> Ok, first the optimal light phase for vegging is 18 hours. Beyond that you get little in return.
> 
> Also, your vegging area should typically be 1/4 the size of your flowering area. You should read up on the sea of green method.
> 
> ...


 
Now I'm vegging in a cabnet under flouros, which is working out fine but maybe a little slower than I would like. I've never really heard of the 1/4 for vegging, i've got a 10x5 space that i'm going to use to veg at 18/6 for a couple weeks under the 1000w mh before I put them in flower under the 1000w hps. The 1000w is what i've got to work with, and it works great except it eats electricity like mad, i can't get another H.I.D light for veg right now and the flouros are fine. My last grow was from seed and i didn't keep a mother. This time I grew a mother and took about 12 clones. I'm going to keep them alot smaller than last time.


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## RickWhite (Aug 2, 2009)

Gdaddy said:


> Now I'm vegging in a cabnet under flouros, which is working out fine but maybe a little slower than I would like. I've never really heard of the 1/4 for vegging, i've got a 10x5 space that i'm going to use to veg at 18/6 for a couple weeks under the 1000w mh before I put them in flower under the 1000w hps. The 1000w is what i've got to work with, and it works great except it eats electricity like mad, i can't get another H.I.D light for veg right now and the flouros are fine. My last grow was from seed and i didn't keep a mother. This time I grew a mother and took about 12 clones. I'm going to keep them alot smaller than last time.


OK, in that case grow under the fluoros - those you leave on 24 hours. If you only have the one HID do just like you said. Obviously you will need to move the plants into the flower room when they crowd.

Now if you are growing from seed, that is a whole other matter.


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## hightimesreader (Apr 10, 2018)

Relaxed said:


> Ok I've now seen in writing now 2 very well thought of seedbanks that use 6/18 flower with great results. Can the experienced openly discuss please? Pros/cons.... Sounds like a great way to save electricity. I got not problem mentioning my internet reading....Subcool and Elite seedbanks.


i have/had an old issue of high times from the mid 90`s and i believe according to ed rosenthal, u can use the 6 on 18 off cycle, the plant does everything in approx 6 hrs it needs to do like stated in a comment below, ive always used it with success, but this time im trying 11 on and 13 off. but 6 on 18 off works also, i also veg under 24 hrs tho


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## hightimesreader (Apr 10, 2018)

i have/had an old issue of high times from the mid 90`s and i believe according to ed rosenthal, u can use the 6 on 18 off cycle, the plant does everything in approx 6 hrs it needs to do like stated in a comment below, ive always used it with success, but this time im trying 11 on and 13 off. but 6 on 18 off works also, i also veg under 24 hrs tho


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## farmerfischer (Apr 11, 2018)

hightimesreader said:


> i have/had an old issue of high times from the mid 90`s and i believe according to ed rosenthal, u can use the 6 on 18 off cycle, the plant does everything in approx 6 hrs it needs to do like stated in a comment below, ive always used it with success, but this time im trying 11 on and 13 off. but 6 on 18 off works also, i also veg under 24 hrs tho


If you want to see an active reduced light cycle .. check out @torontoke journals. He's running a 8 /16 schedule .. I run a 10/14 schedule..


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## Gquebed (Apr 22, 2018)

I too run a 10/14 flowering sched.
No loss on yield. Plants finish about a week earlier.


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## farmerfischer (Apr 22, 2018)

Gquebed said:


> I too run a 10/14 flowering sched.
> No loss on yield. Plants finish about a week earlier.


I went as low as 9/15 and most of the plants did fine.. I'm currently doing my normal time 10/14 .. kind of a muti-strain sea of green..


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## charface (Apr 22, 2018)

Page 146 marijuana botany
Robert connell clarke

Not going to copy it all but in the paragraph concerning factors influencing thc production he says.

"research has shown (valle et al. 197 that twice as much thc is produced under a 12 hour photoperiod than under a 10 hour photoperiod"

Not saying he is the end all be all but figured it was at least worth posting here.


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## Gquebed (Apr 22, 2018)

charface said:


> Page 146 marijuana botany
> Robert connell clarke
> 
> Not going to copy it all but in the paragraph concerning factors influencing thc production he says.
> ...


What? Hahahahahahaha
Does that guy even know what a THC is ffs?
If he did he wouldnt write something so stupid as twice as much thc is produced at 12 hours, opposed to 10 hrs.

So i googled the book. It was written in 1981. Nuff said...


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## farmerfischer (Apr 22, 2018)

charface said:


> Page 146 marijuana botany
> Robert connell clarke
> 
> Not going to copy it all but in the paragraph concerning factors influencing thc production he says.
> ...


Was he using mixed spectrums during flower?


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## charface (Apr 22, 2018)

Gquebed said:


> What? Hahahahahahaha
> Does that guy even know what a THC is ffs?
> If he did he wouldnt write something so stupid as twice as much thc is produced at 12 hours, opposed to 10 hrs.
> 
> So i googled the book. It was written in 1981. Nuff said...


I understand what you mean. 
I assumed there was a formula involved. Not as simple as lights on thc starts pouring immediately and runs consistent until lights out. 

Like I said take it for what its worth.


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## charface (Apr 22, 2018)

I would be interested in reading the research he pointed to in that quote


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## charface (Apr 22, 2018)

I think this is the research he was pointing to. 

Whatever Cannabis sativa l is
https://www.realhemp.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/15-Effect-Of-Light-Quality-On-Cannabinoid-Content-Of-Cannabis-Sativa-L-Cannabaceae.pdf


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## charface (Apr 23, 2018)

It does make sense that with modern equipment and tech you guys can overcome yesterdays limitations.


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