# vegetable glycerin tincture for tank system e-cig?



## indcolts77 (May 25, 2013)

Anyone ever do it with success and without killing your e-cig? My reasoning is this:

The e-juice is made with tobacco leaves soaked in vegetable glycerin and then strained and flavored. THC will dissolve in the glycerin. I would dissolve my homemade iso hash in the glycerin on low heat for about 24 hours, strain, and have some THC infused e-juice, right? It makes sense to me but my two concerns involve if I would get high? And if it would fuck up my e-cig? 

I have an Ego-T refillable e-cig, not one of those disposable non refillable ones..it uses a little tank witjout a cartridge, you literally put the juice right into that clear chamber, connect the pieces, and puff...its exactly like a Gpen pretty much but only takes VG based juice... bought it for my girl and I WAS going to get a G-Pen before my local dispensaries got shut down...all of em thanks to Measure D passing in Los Angeles... now I no longer have access to wax and don't want to make my own BHO bc I'm afraid I won't purge it right or blow my face off...Iso hash is way easier to make and won't seperate from the glycerin like the oil/BHO would

Any help is appreciated


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## indcolts77 (May 25, 2013)

Here are some pics...it delivers nicotine really well and the flavors are great... nice big puffs of smoke and nice little buzz


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## Comatoke (May 25, 2013)

sounds right to me, dont see why that wouldnt work, unless the ecig itself has some sort of filtering system for the smoke.


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## vacpurge (May 25, 2013)

not only did glycerin make me think of this very good song, but the song is also 4:20 long... too much of a coincidence not to post!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU6KhFWvKPM


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## indcolts77 (May 25, 2013)

Comatoke said:


> sounds right to me, dont see why that wouldnt work, unless the ecig itself has some sort of filtering system for the smoke.


No theres no filter or else the nicotine wouldn't get delivered... I'm basically trying to sub the nicotine with THC ...thanks for the reply brotha, I'm a little more confident now that someone agrees with my reasoning haha



vacpurge said:


> not only did glycerin make me think of this very good song, but the song is also 4:20 long... too much of a coincidence not to post!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU6KhFWvKPM


Definitely agree and thats all time classic, nice call haha so you think it'll work?


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## d3dm4n (May 25, 2013)

get the flavoring with 0mg nicotine... i have a tsunami e cig and i just use a syringe with my c02 hash oil put it in the tank then warm up the tank by holding it in my hand for a while then take some of the 0mg tsunami juice put it in and shake the tank ... it never really mixes but it does make the oil turn a little better consistency so i get bigger rips


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## oakley1984 (May 25, 2013)

it works what you are attempting to do, but poorly.


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## indcolts77 (May 26, 2013)

d3dm4n said:


> get the flavoring with 0mg nicotine... i have a tsunami e cig and i just use a syringe with my c02 hash oil put it in the tank then warm up the tank by holding it in my hand for a while then take some of the 0mg tsunami juice put it in and shake the tank ... it never really mixes but it does make the oil turn a little better consistency so i get bigger rips


Thanks man, I was gonna do this too but I don't have access to oil anymore...I make qwiso without having to cook or heat anything which is better for me....I'm going to have to heat the hash and glycerin for a bit but I'm gonna use my outside grill on low when I have a chance.....I know making oils you need specific temperatures and what not and I'm just not willing to do all that lol...I have access to the 0mg stuff you're talking about at my local headship...gonna use that and mix it with my tincture....thanks braj


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## Grow Goddess (May 26, 2013)

Vegetable glycerine is water based. I have tried mixing RSO with vegetable glycerine and some of the components of the RSO would mix with the VG and others would not. I have not idea which compounds were mixing and which were not. I don't think vegetable glycerine is the right way to go. Unless you can actually extract 100% pure THC. Vegetable glycerine is a good base. RSO already has a good base (oil based). I am not finished with testing my current experiments with a different compound to make RSO usable in a tank style e-cigarette. I will report back with my final analysis in about a month. So far, after a couple weeks of using my current mixture, it is the best cannabis vaporizing experience I have had. However, I have not tried too many different styles of vaporizing cannabis. 




This is the RSO I have been using. The following photos are before mixing with the compound to work in a tank style e-cigarette.


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## Grow Goddess (May 26, 2013)

Your ego-T looks almost identical to what I am using. I think they are the same actually. I am using a Dream Vapor Electronic Cigarette. They cost almost $35 after tax and shipping.

Thanks for mentioning the ego-T, I see that there are a lot of accessories that will work with my Dream Vapor, at least it appears to be so. http://dreamvapor.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=52


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## indcolts77 (May 26, 2013)

Hey Grow Goddess, your dream vapor is the same thing as my Ego-T marketed under a different name...so thank you for confirming that its possible...

Two things tho...Whats RSO and what base do you use to mix it with to work in the ecig? And can you give me your recipe on how to make it? It looks like great stuff and once you mix it with your base it looks like it'll work for sure in mine....I have plenty of trim, buds, and hash to work with 

Thanks and +rep for your experiment


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## Grow Goddess (May 26, 2013)

indcolts77 said:


> Hey Grow Goddess, your dream vapor is the same thing as my Ego-T marketed under a different name...so thank you for confirming that its possible...
> 
> Two things tho...Whats RSO and what base do you use to mix it with to work in the ecig? And can you give me your recipe on how to make it? It looks like great stuff and once you mix it with your base it looks like it'll work for sure in mine....I have plenty of trim, buds, and hash to work with
> 
> Thanks and +rep for your experiment


RSO is concentrated cannabis oil. I have people get offended for saying RSO and others get offended for not saying RSO. RSO is just easier to say. I try to describe my products to where people have a better idea of how it was made, so they will know what they are getting. I consider RSO a method of making concentrated cannabis oil. 

The finished product RSO has gone through the decarboxylation process. RSO or BHO that has been decarboxylized is better to work with for any vaporizer in my opinion. It does not require any heat to activate the THC. 

I interact a lot with cancer patients. RSO is the most popular method of using cannabis as an alternative treatment for cancer. It has become quite common. 

I love the RSO so much all of the best buds from my crops go into making the concentrated cannabis oil. I am starting to enjoy the tank style pen vaporizer so much I may not even smoke buds anymore!

I am still fiddling around with a couple of different mixtures. I would like to wait until I choose the most preferred mixture before announcing the formula. I hope you understand. 

I learned about RSO after watching the video (YouTube) Run From the Cure. Before that, the only concentrated cannabis I ever had was hash. After watching the video it really motivated me to try to make the oil. I found it very hard to believe that a dose the size of a grain of rice could keep someone buzzed for up to 12 hours, let alone cure some cancers, or control cancer. I made some oil, it was potent just like the video said it would be. 

When I was involved with our local compassion clubs in MI, I met a cancer patient who was looking for an alternative treatment for his cancer. He wanted to try the oil after he saw the video. I offered to treat him for free. He is now cancer free! I couldn't believe it and neither could he. This patient had been ran through the medical system with many different treatments for 11 years at the time we began treatment. He was ready to give up, having been so tired of chemotherapy, bone marrow transplants, radiation treatments, and more. After 6 months of taking 1/2 gram per day of the oil, he had bloodwork and a scan. They could find no signs of the cancer. This patient had Hodgkin's Lymphoma. Whether it was God that took his cancer away, the cannabis oil, or something else, you will have to judge for yourself. I truly believe the cannabis oil made a difference. 

When I get my formula for e-cannabis oil to a satisfactory level, I will post detailed information.


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## indcolts77 (May 26, 2013)

Wow that is fuckin awesome...I actually read up on RSO while waiting for your reply and it seems relatively easy to make. I'm going to give it a shot for sure and if it can cure cancer, I'm sure it could help prevent it as well and i am too ready to take it everyday for preventative purposes as well as the pain relieving effects i seek. I read it has many other benefits such as revitalizing organ tissue and seeking and destroying cancer cells. I'm sold on your testimony, thanks for being an awesome person and treating that man for free. Respect.

The reason im trying the glycerine is because that is what the ego-t ejuice is made out of (im just going to buy the plain unflavored ejuice from the headshop and try to dissolve hash into it at a low heat level, both to speed up the process and decarb the thca) ...I figured i would stick to what the pen is already made for....but yea I totally understand you not releasing the formula yet...ill let you figure it out for us haha ;P just messing around. really I do understand but please please don't forget about me and let me know once your formula is complete! I'm gonna try the Vegetable glycerin for now and if I fuck it up oh well I can always buy another pen for $25...ill let you know how it goes with the glycerin! Good luck on your experiment!


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## Grow Goddess (May 26, 2013)

I am all for helping people. Don't waste your money on the glycerine. I will PM you some information. Please report back on how it works with your hash. 

For me RSO is the way to go, but I am very interested in knowing how it works with other types of concentrated cannabis. 

Yes, you are right. I truly believe it does prevent some cancers. I believe in taking one to three small maintenance doses per day (size of a grain of rice). 

It takes anywhere from two to three ounces of bud to fill a two teaspoon size syringe (10ml, or 10cc) with RSO.


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## d3dm4n (May 27, 2013)

indcolts77 said:


> Thanks man, I was gonna do this too but I don't have access to oil anymore...I make qwiso without having to cook or heat anything which is better for me....I'm going to have to heat the hash and glycerin for a bit but I'm gonna use my outside grill on low when I have a chance.....I know making oils you need specific temperatures and what not and I'm just not willing to do all that lol...I have access to the 0mg stuff you're talking about at my local headship...gonna use that and mix it with my tincture....thanks braj



ne time... I love my oil filled tank lol I use to anywhere I want... I got yelled at, at the airport by a cop that i didnt notice was near for smoking "an e cig" in the airport... didnt tell him it wasnt exactly an e cig lol


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## indcolts77 (May 27, 2013)

@gg I responded to your PM but I don't know if it went through BC I'm posting through my phone...if not just know I appreciate the info a d will report to you once I get going! 

@d3dm4n that's what I'm going for man, I'm glad to hear the stealth aspect works!


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## Grow Goddess (May 27, 2013)

@indcolts77Message received, looking forward to your results.


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## Kanivers (May 28, 2013)

I have experimented with VG and PG mixtures with straight flowers and BHO for a tank system e cig. I find it inferior to just using a concentrate pen like a G pen. You have to vape too much e liquid to get any effects. With the concentrate pen it's one and done!


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## PsychedelicSam (May 28, 2013)

I do it. I have the same set up as the op. The key is to NOT strain it. It will remain a suspension. Straining it will remove the suspended oil and that's your real potency for vaping it. Shake it well before use. Also it helps if you let it cure for a couple of weeks in a dark cabinet, shaking daily. Because of the specific properties of glycerin, it takes a while for the bonding to complete. You also need a minimum potency of 3g (reefer) per ounce of glycerin for enough potency. That's hard to attain with whole reefer but very easy with hash oils and you can easily attain a great effect on just a few puffs. I recently made a batch of 9g/oz using a Green Dragon made from kief and I feel the first hit and am buzzed good at 5. With hash oils, there's no need to reduce any solvents and it's better than hash for extraction. 

Your cut is important, too. Nearly everything you use will dilute it, pg, flavor juice, alcohol, so you have to keep that in mind. If you're adding a few drops of some non-thc product into a milliliter, that's diluting it. The secret is to use a few drops of Green Dragon instead. It mixes well and is one of the recommended additives but this adds more potency to your mix instead of less. You never want to use more than 25% of the Dragon in the blend but you'll find that it will help dissolve your hash oil into the glycerin. Adding alcohol to glycerin creates pg and it vaporizes well. I use my pen almost everyday and 1.5ml has lasted me two weeks.


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## Grow Goddess (May 28, 2013)

The amber colored oil shown in these pictures, we compared them in a G-Pen. It is high quality RSO. We compared it against the tank style e-cigg vaproizer with a 20-30% propylene glycol to RSO mixture. Hands down, the diluted RSO in the tank style e-cigg was better, smoother, and seemed more potent. It was just all around better. The G-pen did work with the straight RSO, but the draws were very harsh. Kind of like it was over cooking the oil. 

The tank style e-pen with the PG/RSO mixture compared to pure RSO in the Eclipse vaporizer, well the oil in the eclipse is more tasty. I guess you could say it is more heavy duty. That is about it. The e-cigg vape won on every aspect, potency, convenience, buzz effect, etc. 

Me personally, I do not have use for the VG. Just concentrated cannabis and PG work great for me. This is reference to RSO, I do cannot say how it would be with other concentrates i.e. BHO, hash, etc. 

I must say, with the RSO I use the Eclipse vaporizer, the taste is awesome! The problem is that it is a PIA to use. It is not as enjoyable as I would like it to be. Mostly because of the need for a torch lighter and it is easy to overheat. 


I love my tank style e-cigg vaporizer. It makes me very happy.


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## vacpurge (May 28, 2013)

just when I thought ive seen it all... pretty cool.


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## WarMachine (May 30, 2013)

Great threat! Can't wait for more updates so I can try this on my Vaporall pen(G Pen Knock Off I believe)! I really like using it but I noticed it just burns (no pun, OK some pun) right threw the wax/hash/oil. I also have a Medstick which is more discreet. Keep up the good work!


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 1, 2013)

indcolts77 said:


> Hey Grow Goddess, your dream vapor is the same thing as my Ego-T marketed under a different name...so thank you for confirming that its possible...
> 
> Two things tho...Whats RSO and what base do you use to mix it with to work in the ecig? And can you give me your recipe on how to make it? It looks like great stuff and once you mix it with your base it looks like it'll work for sure in mine....I have plenty of trim, buds, and hash to work with
> 
> Thanks and +rep for your experiment


Thanks for pointing out the ego-t. I just purchased some of their accessories. Can't beat the prices I found. It is really cool that they have new batteries with variable voltage. Can't wait to get my new variable voltage battery. I am going to crank up the volts. I think it is the extra little kick I need for my vape set up. 

That lead me to finding some other pen type vaporizers. They are not stealthy, but they look like the King Kong in pen vapes! I think I will be trying one of those bad boys out in the near future. http://highdesertvapes.com/products/DID-Clone-Rebuildable-Atomizer.html The video shown on this page link, I got to have one of those!! Poking around on this website, they have some really cool stuff and their prices are reasonable too!.


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 1, 2013)

I apologize for the hijacking, but this is something I would like to share. 

I couldn't help it. I just keep spending money on this stuff. I have a good excuse though. I am doing it for our community  for the greater good. 

After blowing some money and ordering some standard 510 batteries that do have adjustable voltage, well, that just was not enough after having seen a King Kong looking vaporizer. So I picked one out and this one is huge! You can check the resistance of whatever device you choose to vape from right on the unit. Then you can adjust your volts and wattage to what will work best for the vaping device you attach. 

As soon as I get it and try it out, I will surely report back.



I spent the entire day researching. There are far more products out there available for e-ciggs than for mj. It seems to be worthwhile to make the cannabis oil work in an e-cigg vaporizer. There are so many different attachments for me to try. Like dual coil elements. Can't wait!

[video=youtube;n7DnXw0MqTs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7DnXw0MqTs[/video]


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## Kanivers (Jun 4, 2013)

I don't know why anyone in their right mind would want to vape RSO. RSO is really just for consumption not smoking or vaping. Its super green and full of bitter chlorophyl. Btw check out the cooking with cannibis section in the forum. There is a whole post about this called cooking an e cig recipe. Adding alcohol to VG does not turn it into PG by the way. They are two completely different substances. One is the byproduct of petroleum (PG) the other is organic. They are both alcohol sugars and humectants. VG is thicker and more viscous. PG is less. PG is a better solute then VG so it's easier and faster to infuse it. VG gives a smoother hit with more vaper but less flavor. PG gives more throat hit but more flavor. That's why e gigs are usually PG because it gives a harsher hit and better flavor which is what smokers are looking for. People usually blend the two to get the best of both worlds. VG also gums up the wick/ tank systems quicker so people cut it with PG. I hope this helps people make a better decision.


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## Skoad (Jun 28, 2013)

I have multiple ecig mods. Egos are nice starter batteries but dont provide the power I wanted. Ive been vaping for years now. My favorite mod is the Provari by far. Its costly but definitely the most reliable and durable mod Ive got. Most mods wont survive being dropped on concrete multiple times but my Provari barely has a scratch after a dozen or so concrete drops. 

If I can ever find a good step by step guide for making THC ejuice with only an 1/8th ill give it a go. Cant really afford to waste much more than that for something I may not get to work. If I can get it to work though, ive got dozens of ecig tanks I can test it on.

- Also, if anyone wants to try out the ecig mod posted above (iTaste SVD) you can get it cheapest at FastTechdotCom, but will take a good 7-14 days to get it(I ordered an SVD from there along with several other mods).


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## Guzias1 (Jun 28, 2013)

Grow Goddess said:


> I am still fiddling around with a couple of different mixtures. I would like to wait until I choose the most preferred mixture before announcing the formula. I hope you understand.



hey growgoddess! your info has been excellent, thank you!

nowww. its been about a month. whats the the latest and greatest? thanks!


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## motorcity57 (Jul 15, 2013)

I am going to try and make some THC juice for my e-cig, I've been on the e-cig about 4 years now, I already mix my own nic juice. I only vape menthol, so I get my own menthol crystals, I use 50/50, VG, PG. I get the strongest unflavored nic juice on the market. it is 10% nicotine, I also add some tobacco flavor, reminds me of a Newport, my old brand. maybe this post will get me some tips for my brew, looks to have gone dead for awhile. great place to find vendors for vape mods or anything else vape try the e-cig forum http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/, I get most my stuff from myfreedomsmokes.


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## Guzias1 (Jul 18, 2013)

SOOOOOOOOO, i am still interested here :] 

i've come down to this off grow goddess:

20-30% PG with the rest being RSO (concentrated oil) 
[h=3]fill up my 510 cartomizer, puff away..
ok.. ordered some parts, i reallyyy want to do this! i feel this is the new sneak-a-toke, i likeee the idea of adding flavors/aromas.. *

Propylene Glycol*  a colorless, viscous, hygroscopic liquid, C 3  H 8  O, used chiefly as a lubricant, as an antifreeze, as a heat transfer fluid, and as a solvent for fats, oils,
waxes, and resins.[/h]


seems like vegetable glycerin dont cut it..


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## Fadedawg (Jul 19, 2013)

Guzias1 said:


> SOOOOOOOOO, i am still interested here :]
> 
> i've come down to this off grow goddess:
> 
> ...


Here is the MSDS for vegetable glycerin and propylene glycol. Note the inhalation :

*Section 11: Toxicological Information Vegetable glycerrin*

Routes of Entry: Absorbed through skin. Eye contact.

Toxicity to Animals:

WARNING: THE LC50 VALUES HEREUNDER ARE ESTIMATED ON THE BASIS OF A 4-HOUR EXPOSURE. Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 4090 mg/kg [Mouse]. Acute dermal toxicity (LD50): 10000 mg/kg [Rabbit]. Acute toxicity of the mist (LC50):>570 mg/m3 1 hours [Rat].

Chronic Effects on Humans: May cause damage to the following organs: kidneys.

Other Toxic Effects on Humans: Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation.

Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals:

TDL (rat) - Route: Oral; Dose: 100 mg/kg 1 day prior to mating. TDL (human) - Route: Oral; Dose: 1428 mg/kg

Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans:

Glycerin is transferred across the plancenta in small amounts. May cause adverse reproductive effects based on animal
data (Paternal Effects (Rat): Spermatogenesis (including genetic material, sperm morphology, motility, and count), Testes,
epididymis, sperm duct). May affect genetic material.

Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:

Acute Potential Health Effects: Low hazard for normal industrial handling or normal workplace conditions. Skin: May cause skin irritation. May be absorbed through skin 

Eyes: May cause eye irritation with stinging, redness, burning sensation, and tearing, but no eye injury. Ingestion: Low hazard. Low toxicity except with very large doses. When large doses are
ingested, it can cause gastrointestinal tract irritation with thirst (dehydration), nausea or vomiting diarrhea. It may also affect behavior/central nervous system/nervous system (central nervous system depression, general anesthetic, headache, dizziness, confusion, insomnia, toxic psychosis, muscle weakness, paralysisconvulsions), urinary system/kidneys(renal failure,p. 5 hemoglobinuria), cardiovascular system (cardiac arrhythmias), liver. It may also cause elevated blood sugar. 

*Inhalation: Due to low vapor pressure, inhalation of the vapors at room temperature is unlikely. Inhalation of mist may cause respiratory tract irritation. 
*
Chronic Potential Health Effects: 

Ingestion: Prolonged or repeated ingestion may affect the blood(hemolysis, changes in white blood cell count), endocrine system (changes in adrenal weight), respiratory system, and may cause kidney
injury.

*Section 11: Toxicological Information for Propylene glycol*

Routes of Entry: Absorbed through skin. Eye contact.

Toxicity to Animals:

Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 18500 mg/kg [Rabbit]. Acute dermal toxicity (LD50): 20800 mg/kg [Rabbit].
Chronic Effects on Humans: May cause damage to the following organs: central nervous system (CNS).

Other Toxic Effects on Humans:

Hazardous in case of ingestion. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant, permeator), of inhalation.

Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available.

Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans:

*May affect genetic material (mutagenic). May cause adverse reproductive effects and birth defects (teratogenic) based on
animal test data.
*
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:

Acute Potential Health Effects: 

Skin: May cause mild skin irritation. It may be absorbed through the skin and cause systemic
effects similar to those of ingestion. 

Eyes: May cause mild eye irritation with some immediate, transitory stinging, lacrimation, blepharospasm, and mild transient conjunctival hyperemia. There is no residual discomfort or injury once it is washed
away. 

Inhalation: May cause respiratory tract irritation. 

Ingestion: It may cause gastrointestinal tract irritation. It may affect behavior/central nervous system(CNS depression, general anesthetic, convulsions, seizures, somnolence, stupor, muscle contraction or spasticity, coma), brain (changes in surface EEG), metabolism, blood (intravascular hemolysis, white blood cells - decreased neutrophil function), respiration (respiratory stimulation, chronic pulmonary edema, cyanosis), cardiovascular system(hypotension, bradycardia, arrhythmias, cardiac arrest), endocrine system (hypoglycemia), urinary system (kidneys), and liver. Chronic Potential Health Effects: Skin: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause allergic contact dermatitis.

Ingestion: Prolonged or repeated ingestion may cause hyperglycemia and may affect behavior/CNS (symptoms similar to that
of acute ingestion). 

*Inhalation: Prolonged or repeated inhalation may affect behavior/CNS (with symptoms similar to ingestion),
and spleen
*


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## Guzias1 (Jul 19, 2013)

sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. 


this is terrible news fd! why the hell are soooooooooo many people smoking these e-cigs packed with this? 

i wonder if they show warning labels about this on their products. 

fd, why why whyyyy do you get me down with this info! thank you though...


what do you suggest is better to create a juice to fill these e-cigs with? 

thanks again!


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## Fadedawg (Jul 20, 2013)

No juice is required. We use straight cannabis oil or shatter in a 510 cart, which works well. We also have a couple more pens to test, that have special carts specifically for oil.

Poison is in the dosage. Those most likely to suffer, are those who abuse its use.


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## osirhc (Oct 16, 2013)

Fadedawg said:


> No juice is required. We use straight cannabis oil or shatter in a 510 cart, which works well. We also have a couple more pens to test, that have special carts specifically for oil.
> 
> Poison is in the dosage. Those most likely to suffer, are those who abuse its use.


Found this thread through Google and made an account just now - i have recently bought the eGo C Twist (510) and have been smoking the VG oils with nicotine so I can cut back on smoking tobacco. I bought a second cartridge for other purposes because I would really love to vape cannabis oil or shatter with my pen. In your opinion, which is the best 510 cart for use with either cannabis oil or shatter or both? Also, how do you fill shatter into the tank? Do you mix it with anything? Sorry for the noobie questions lol just very curious and extremely interested in being able to vape cannabis oil on the go (and if I do not have to mix PG or VG with cannabis oil then even better!)


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## Fadedawg (Oct 18, 2013)

osirhc said:


> Found this thread through Google and made an account just now - i have recently bought the eGo C Twist (510) and have been smoking the VG oils with nicotine so I can cut back on smoking tobacco. I bought a second cartridge for other purposes because I would really love to vape cannabis oil or shatter with my pen. In your opinion, which is the best 510 cart for use with either cannabis oil or shatter or both? Also, how do you fill shatter into the tank? Do you mix it with anything? Sorry for the noobie questions lol just very curious and extremely interested in being able to vape cannabis oil on the go (and if I do not have to mix PG or VG with cannabis oil then even better!)


I get the shatter on a wire and heat the wire until it drops off into the cart.


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## Grow Goddess (Nov 9, 2013)

Kanivers said:


> I don't know why anyone in their right mind would want to vape RSO. RSO is really just for consumption not smoking or vaping. Its super green and full of bitter chlorophyl. Btw check out the cooking with cannibis section in the forum. There is a whole post about this called cooking an e cig recipe. Adding alcohol to VG does not turn it into PG by the way. They are two completely different substances. One is the byproduct of petroleum (PG) the other is organic. They are both alcohol sugars and humectants. VG is thicker and more viscous. PG is less. PG is a better solute then VG so it's easier and faster to infuse it. VG gives a smoother hit with more vaper but less flavor. PG gives more throat hit but more flavor. That's why e gigs are usually PG because it gives a harsher hit and better flavor which is what smokers are looking for. People usually blend the two to get the best of both worlds. VG also gums up the wick/ tank systems quicker so people cut it with PG. I hope this helps people make a better decision.


You are right, when it comes to low quality or long soaked in the solvent. 
RSO can be used for more than just eating when made correctly. Did you not see the picture I posted? Green? 

Here, let me post another picture for you. Looks very vaporizable to me. Just a simple frozen extract, no extra filtering. The solvent used is 99% isopropyl alcohol. For me, what I don't understand is why someone would prefer to smoke joints over vaporizing quality oil.

   

Edit: These are the techniques I use to get my oil to come out like this. 
https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog30912-how-i-make-rso-concentrated.html


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## Grow Goddess (Nov 9, 2013)

Fadedawg said:


> Here is the MSDS for vegetable glycerin and propylene glycol. Note the inhalation :
> 
> *Section 11: Toxicological Information Vegetable glycerrin*
> 
> ...


I am so sick and tired and worn out from defending the truth and valid information! 

The propylene glycol you reference is used in anti freeze. The Propylene Glycol I speak of, well, most of us are consuming it every day, whether you know it or not. The propylene glycol I speak of is Propylene Glycol USP medical/food grade. It is used in all kinds of food processing and medicines. I liter of pop contains more propylene glycol USP than what I use in my vaporizer weekly or monthly depending upon how much I use my vape. If you are so worried about it, you should be campaigning against the food and beverage industries. 

It is used as a main ingredient in e-cigarette oils. It is safer than aspirin. I only purchase my mixing products from e-cigarette oil companies. I make sure that it is Propylene Glycol USP. Sometimes it is also labeled as kosher. 

Here is a link to where you can get all of the proper tools. (my apologies for where this information is stored). I will be vaporizing oil for the rest of my life and ingesting RSO as well. http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1026-my-experience-with-portable-vaporizers-pen-vaporizers-for-concentrated-cannabis-oil-and-e-cigarette-oil/#commentsStart

I assure you of this, smoking joints is far more dangerous for your body than vaporizing the oil I make and use. 

View attachment 2888037

Peace and God bless. RSO is the way to go!

People have replied back to me using my methods in vaping, they tried quizo hash and BHO. They said it worked great. When I get a chance, I will do the quizo hash test myself. It may prove to be more enjoyable than my current RSO mixture.


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## Grow Goddess (Nov 9, 2013)

Guzias1 said:


> sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
> 
> 
> this is terrible news fd! why the hell are soooooooooo many people smoking these e-cigs packed with this?
> ...


Yes, it is terrible. It is terrible that people will provide false information that over 11,000 have currently read. 

How do you guys feel? Just think, you are discouraging people from doing things safer and healthier. I call this anti-progress. I have invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours into this. I wonder how much time was really put into the false information that was posted? thirty seconds? I would feel awful for attempting to debunk quality information. 

Why the e-cigarettes don't put warning labels on them? They do! The warning is not about the PG USP or VG. Anyway, are you suggesting for people to take toxic pills from the pharmas to quit smoking? Keep in mind, those are known to cause serious side effects. Is that what you would consider to be safe? Or do you recommend to people to continue smoking radiated toxic crap tobacco? E-Cigarettes are probably the safest way for many to quit smoking. I am sure e-cigarettes have saved many lives. It is possible due to the false information, someone chose to not go with e-cigarettes and has possibly died. 

Again, you are right, this is very disturbing and it bothers me.


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## qwizoking (Nov 9, 2013)

Lol a quick wash using frozen iso doesn't sound anything like rso.....I believe that's known as qwiso.........just saying
But I guess you can call it or any other hash rso if you wish


Looks pretty good though btw
How did you keep it so runny though It looks like straight goo..


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## Shawns (Nov 9, 2013)

I thought RSO (Rick Simpson Oil) was black lol but if you really think about it RSO is really just black oil, its the exact same process as honey oil or qwiso only you don't freeze anything


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## Grow Goddess (Nov 9, 2013)

qwizoking said:


> Lol a quick wash using frozen iso doesn't sound anything like rso.....I believe that's known as qwiso.........just saying
> But I guess you can call it or any other hash rso if you wish
> 
> 
> ...


Back to defending the truth. It has become endless. The arrogance and ignorance is just overwhelming. You obviously did not read the information in my link. Did some fairy explain the process to you after I do the frozen extraction? That is the ignorance I am speaking of. You just assume and calculate in your own head as to how I finish my process. Then laugh about it? It is not funny to me. 

Qwiso hash is not decarbed. RSO is decarbed. Let me post the link again. This is how I make RSO. Well, at least that is my old style. I don't know if you all could handle my new process with pictures. https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog30912-how-i-make-rso-concentrated.html 

One piece from my journal entry link *"After all of the solvent has been filtered, I move to the rice cooker and follow Rick's directions from there."*

Are you saying that qwiso hash is cooked down in a rice cooker? I don't think so.... If you would have taken the time and looked beyond my pictures in the previous post, you would have seen the link to my entire process. Yes, I did add the link in my edit, but that was placed well before your post against me. 

How do I make the oil look the way it does? There are three technical answers to that question. That is a good question I must say. Two of the answers are very important and very medicinal. I fear to supply the answers here on this thread. I don't want to leave good quality information to have somebody falsely go against it then leave more bad information for 11,000 other people to read. I guess you could just say, experience..... 

I apologize that I just don't have the patience to deal with these types of BS. I am feeling very irritated and am just not in the mood to play games. I can usually handle things with tact and compassion. 

I guess I just have nothing more to add to this thread. I will have to stick to my blogs and journals for a while. Open forums have become very frustrating for me.


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## Guzias1 (Nov 9, 2013)

superrr strong feelings grow goddess. i respect your work and contributions, but we are stepping into unknown territories. 

as people have concerns with solvent extracts effecting our health. i feel this is right up there with things to be aware of. 

everything in a certain amount is toxic ya?

i am alllll for these weed juice mixes, i would loveeeeeeeeeee to have years of backed up proof that shows vaping this stuff all day is a much healthier way to smoke over any other way..

but we still young test lab rats right?


like i says, im allll for this way of vaping. but, the lack of long term info really puts caution towards my approach. 


but more importantly, 
thanks again!


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## lizmath (Jan 25, 2014)

Grow Goddess said:


> I am all for helping people. Don't waste your money on the glycerine. I will PM you some information. Please report back on how it works with your hash.
> 
> For me RSO is the way to go, but I am very interested in knowing how it works with other types of concentrated cannabis.
> 
> ...



Hi Grow Goddess, 

I thank the Universe every day that there are angels like you walking on this earth.

I have been on RSO since November and am about to start on my second batch. I have rectal cancer with mets in the lungs and liver, so I thought that, if I vaped the RSO, I might reach the ones in my lungs quicker. I bought an EGO T yesterday but now I need to know how to make the tincture. You can imagine how excited I am to see your post - please can I get that information from you about making an RSO tincture.


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

Somthing to understand about e-cigs is that they only vapourise, when you smoke a joint they burn, when you burn there is a chemical reaction from THCA to THC, if you try to vapourise anything that is normally burnt you will not get the thc and thca is not a psycotrop it will not get you hi !!!! In order to het that hit its imperative to recreate that burning reation, transform the thca to thc, it is known as Decarboxylation! this is how it is done:
Measure the amount you plan to use and grind it much the same as for a joint, heat an oven to 240°F (use a good ovan thermometer) no hotter ! place your mix in a pyrex tray even it out thinly and place it in the preheated oven, once in keep the temperature constant for 1 HOUR !!! Now the decarboxylation is done you can place your mix in a jar and cover with high grade alcohol and shake (everclear in the usa or Spirytus in europe would be the best but any alcohol over 40% will work just takes more time), Use the following estimated amounts of cannabis for 300 ml of alcohol, Leaf 3 to 4 ounces, Trim 2 ounce Trim Smoke and Bud 1 to 1 1/2 ounces
Kief and Hash 6 to 8 grams, place your jar in a freezer, remove it 2 or 3 times a day and shake vigorously, repeat this for a week, once done try your tinture start with a few drops on the tongue, depending on the original strength it can be very strong so go slowly ! for the e liquide you can evaporate some of the alcohol to find your desired strenth, a few drops for every ml in your favorite juice and ......!!!!tried and tested ! hope this answers your questions and happy vap. James


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## qwizoking (Jan 30, 2014)

Its decarbed upon vaporizing bro
And there are much better methods


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## Fadedawg (Jan 30, 2014)

Hee, hee, hee, Joe and I just emulsified 24 grams of winterized BHO into 39 grams of V glycerin. Big vapor cloud, and gives good head. What could be sweeter?


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

Get into science !! [h=2]Easy Steps to Decarboxylation[/h]Consumer grade ovens are not always exact so I decided to shoot for a decarboxylation temperature of around 240° Fahrenheit. This should produce quick results without losing any medicinal potency. 30 minutes seemed like a nice round number for a first test and should give the kief and trim plenty of time to come up to temperature.
Kief has a tendency to ball up in the bag which could lead to uneven temperatures and possibly uneven decarboxylation. Before I put it in the oven, I loosened up the clumps with a fork. While most of the trim was already fairly broken up from its time in the kief tumbler, there were still some budlets in the trim that I wanted to break apart.
A few minutes in the Cuisinart works great for breaking up trim and also works well on buds if you have a bunch of joints to roll. The static from the plastic separated out some low grade kief which loosely clung to the lid of the Cuisinart. I brushed this back into the trim.
I placed a pizza stone on the middle rack of the oven and set the oven dial to bake at as close to 240° Fahrenheit as possible. Ovens lose a lot of heat when the door is opened and sometimes the temperature spikes with little explanation. The pizza stone absorbs the heat and helps maintain a constant temperature. In order to track my temperature accurately I used a thermometer with a heat resistant cord. I placed the thermometer on the pizza stone and the digital readout on the counter next to the oven where it could be monitored.
Once the temperature reached about 240° and did not appear to be increasing I placed a small Pyrex bowl of kief and another of the trim on the pizza stone. I set my timer for 30 minutes and continued to monitor the temperature. A Pyrex lasagna dish would be perfect for larger quantities. As expected, the temperature fell a few degrees from opening the door and then came back up to temperature. Throughout the half hour the temperature rose and fell several times for no apparent reason but stayed between 229° and 245° Fahrenheit.
After 30 minutes I removed both Pyrex containers with an oven mit and placed them on the counter to cool. Both the kief and the trim had noticeably fluffed up and gave off a slightly roasted scent. I took a few grams of each and packaged them for lab testing.
I returned the Pyrex dishes to the oven and set the timer for another half hour. I was pretty sure that 30 minutes had been enough to mostly decarboxylate the kief and trim, but just in case I wanted a backup test at a full hour. Either way I had to be patient and wait a few days for the test results to come back.
[h=2]Results of Decarboxylation Experiment[/h]The following charts show the results of the 30 minute and 60 minute decarboxylation experiments. Also included are the lab results from testing done prior to any artificial decarboxylation to establish a starting point. Note that because of the age of both the kief and the trim, decarboxylation had begun to take place to some degree naturally. This may not be your starting point, but should not affect the results of the experiment much.
[h=3]Kief[/h]
CompoundBefore Decarb30 Min Decarb60 Min DecarbTHCA 24.5% 2.6% .1%THC 3.8% 25.4% 25.5%CBDA .6% .3% .3%CBD 0% 1% .1%CBN .4% 1% 1.4%Moisture 0% 0% 0%Total Cannabanoids 29.3% 30.3% 27.4%
[h=3]Cannabis Trim[/h]
CompoundBefore Decarb30 Min Decarb60 Min DecarbTHCA 6.5% 2.9% .2%THC .6% 4.8% 6.9%CBDA .2% .2% .1%CBD 0% 0% .1%CBN 0% 0% 0%Moisture 3.4% 4.5% 0%Total Cannabanoids 7.3% 7.9% 7.3%
_Testing provided by SC Labs_
As you can see from the two charts, 30 minutes was not quite enough to completely decarboxylate either the kief or the trim. At 30 minutes the kief was about 90% decarboxylated but the trim was only about 60% decarboxylated. This difference is likely because the trim had a higher starting moisture content. After 60 minutes however, both keif and trim samples were close enough to 100% decarboxylation for my satisfaction.
So there you have it. 240° F for 60 minutes should be enough to decarboxylate any cannabis with a reasonably low moisture content. For material with higher moisture content, the time can be extended but the temperature should not be increased. If you are concerned about losing organic compounds, lower heat can be used but the time should be extended to compensate


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

the temperature of your e cig is no higher than 250°F propylene glycol evapoates at 210°F wich will carry thca as the temperature is no way high enough to transform thca to thc you can argue with scientiffic facts if you want, the Decarboxylation (and yes that is the true name) will occur in the e cig atomizer at about 5% of its poential strength !!! there are many ways many stories abot how to get hi with an e cig the decarb shown above has been done in high level scientific labs and has proved to be the most successful way !


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## qwizoking (Jan 30, 2014)

Crazy talk.....


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

maybe another way you will understand: to vapourise weed hash ect you need a temperature of 180º-220ºC (356º-428ºF), again your e cig is no more than 250°F how can you think it will decarb at such a low temperature ??


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## qwizoking (Jan 30, 2014)

No I understand fine lol.....
Why don't you review your sources


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

what sources ? most that i have seen are fauls and misleading ! i am a chemist by profession, what can i say more, you could just say ignorance is bliss, a simple question would be why are there so many topics on this conversation ? if it was as easy as that why isn't there a vapourable hi already? can you honestly say you get hi on mixing bho with vg ? two compounds with negative polarities, maybe with a homogenizer it would be possible ! but then you wil allways come back to the problem of decarb, again the temperature to vape weed is 390ish° right ? your e cig is no more than 250 right ? i leave the rest with you, maybe one day you will get curious and try a decaeb i am sure the day you do you will not be disappointed


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## qwizoking (Jan 30, 2014)

Lmao...
Are you trolling? Serious question...


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

trolling ? not sure i undertand ?


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

ok no i am not trolling you !!! just trying to get my point accross and really a valid one at that


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## qwizoking (Jan 30, 2014)

OK well first add a c to the temps you suggested and that's what the coil runs at....these pens can get quite hot 
Now decarbing doesn't happen with a set temp but rather speeds exponentially with increasing temp, just curing your weed decarbs it. when vaporized the carboxyl group is broken..
Now chemist you are not..that much seems obvious..I don't know much about ecigs I'm just getting into em..but I do know chemistry

Hence the sig below


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## greenghost420 (Jan 30, 2014)

any chemist that spells false fauls is prob the kind of chemist that makes shake n bake.....meth.


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

chemist i am biochemist more to the point, the COOH group will be partially broken,the carboxylic acids will not be given sufficien heat to release the carbon atom, a splif after all burns over 900°c the method i mentioned has been tesed in laboratories around the world for medical research it decarboxylates to give an optimal psychoactive compound, i am not sure about your info about increasing temperature ? there has been some talk about this in protodecarboxylations, at last an interesting reply


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

si vous voulez en peut parler ma langue, greenghost vous êtes une pauvre con !!!!


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## qwizoking (Jan 30, 2014)

Lol...
I'm not even gonna respond anymore..use this site to learn not spread misinfo..


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

as you like all i can say is there is a significant difference,we have been working for many years tried may ways and nothing comperes to this method for the time being wish you well


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## Decarboxyla (Jan 30, 2014)

before i leave just to TROLL the only reason i came to this site was i saw "because this is REAL chemistry" seems to be american kitchen chemistry, Y'a _*rien de pire que l'ignorance*_ vive la educacion Français.............


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## criminalogic (Feb 2, 2014)

I believe tha same BS was stated about being able to deliver nicotine thru e-cigs... 
**Bonding with PG or VG Creates a what is called a "Solution" which can be Vaporized at a much lower temps.. Also it does get hot passing tha coil and obviously is capable when alot of fools are putting str8 oil into wicking ecig atomizers :\ lol
I am not a chemist but THC etc will vary easily bond with PG or VG No? That's what I read.
***i soaked 50\50 high grade cannabis & USP glycerin and it tasted and smelled grate (vary hashy) but it smelled and tasted horrible in a e-cig =( Im sure i couldn't feel anything either.. Potency would be vary low using even high grate bud as i did, and it also absorbs Chlorophyll etc and is why I'm sure it is unusable in a ecig unless highly flavored... Only way I could see it really working is using a milk frother\heat to blend high grade oil with pg\vg at no less than 50% extract.... So unless your using a concentrate don't waste your time ;p lol
I would agree with decarbing which is a key step in RSO no? Also vary simple while making extract, bonding your solution or even after by heating....


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 6, 2014)

Glycerin is an extremely polar molecule, to desolve thc in it would be like water in oïl, you would need to create clathrates around the thc, there is a possibiliy for homogeneous mixing but even then after time ? i think it would separate out.
It appears to me that e cigs atomize rather than vaporise due to the temperture, as tests show that a standard 3.7v e cig with a 2 ohm resistance will give around 150°C (wet), at 250°C glycerol will decompose producing toxins like acrolein and many others, so for all those people trying to vaporise thc, it boils at around 200C, leaving a dangerous unmeasurable 50°gap !! For me i find the best solution being tintures, as said not the best tast but highly concentrated and well flavoured they work, i have got the concentration to 2% being 4 dropps the 10ml disguised with koolada and other strong flavours.... Just to emphasize, cannabis produces phyto cannabinoids in a carboxylic acid form that are not orally active,to enable them to pass the blood brain barrier, they must first be decarboxylated, to remove the COOH carboxyl group of atoms, which exits in the form of H20 and CO2...................


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 6, 2014)

Oh and yes RSO is decarboxylated by the heating prosses but not the same results have been achieved, the freezing is very important as a lot of the thc is locked in the cell walls the freezing and shaking breaks the walls helping to release more thc


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## Guzias1 (Feb 6, 2014)

Ughmmm. I get plenty high hitting my mix. I've tried all ohms. Voltages. The high definitely gets delivered. Adjusting the hit can give you a nice soft vape, to a nice big heavy hit


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## Guzias1 (Feb 6, 2014)

Sounds like you are a punk trying to get everyone to burn the mixture, imo...


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 7, 2014)

what are you mixing ? if bho please explain more! if rso then yes i agree you will get a hit, can you explain your mixing technic, have you tried comparing standard combustion with vaping ? mixing rso with vg could be helped by using ethyl malto much the same as with pure tobacco absolute, and no we are not trying to get everyone to burn there mixes, only trying to resolve the problem, stop people waisting time and money, and to share ideas


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 7, 2014)

you are fast to react ! mr ganja after reading a few of your posts: i think the idea to encourage people to make bho is quite stupid, half the people have no idea as to what they are doing and most of them don't care about residues as long as they get high, measures should be taken to explain the dangers, as i beleive you do, you seem to be quite into bho so please explain how do you get this in your e cig ? oh and i totally agree about your family life not that it has anything to do with me or the topic


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## Guzias1 (Feb 7, 2014)

Decarboxyla said:


> no we are not trying to get everyone to burn there mixes\





who are these we? is this a joke being pulled? makes me question this idea even further..


as for my mix. i prefer a some bho winterized, mixed with some PG. ratios can be played with across the entire spectrum. you can make a potent mix, or a light hitter you can puff on 24/7.. 


i stay away from the vg. as it has been very difficult make a pleasurable batch.. 


look into these pages..


https://www.rollitup.org/concentrates-extracts/740152-propjoe-juice-propylene-glycol-thc.html


https://www.rollitup.org/concentrates-extracts/757775-best-vape-pen-ever.html


now now. as for bho and its making. it leaves a deep dark anger in me when i hear about an accident.. 


i was one of those half people that had no fucken idea on what i was doing. i honestly started out under a rock.. 
i have pulled nearly every fuck up you can pull, and have learned a great deal along the way.. 


why did i get into this madness? why do i encourage this art? :] 


this shit is expensive!!! i come from no money. i grew up taking shit apart, putting it back together, broke things, sometimes fixed them! 
i knew i was getting ripped off left and right paying 20-40 $ a half gram.. and i didnt like that.. but i reallyyyyy liked what i was smoking.. 


this site is to help spread knowledge info. 


i started off in sr verdes concentrate corner. and its beem a marvelous journey ever since.. 
i like to think of myself as a creative tinkerrerrerrerrerrr..
as for the danger.... ya. that comes with life.. users make the decisions..


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## Guzias1 (Feb 7, 2014)

Decarboxyla said:


> oh and i totally agree about your family life not that it has anything to do with me or the topic


what is this talking about??????? where did i mention my family life? i gots like no family


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 8, 2014)

Interesting links, but basically burning on a dry coil in a bowl ! the popjoe juice lol, people have been trying this since the e cigs came out, renowned for blocking and blowing the atomisers, the best method for this is homogeneous mixing and still not suitable for tank systems, as it separated and gloges the system, another point to be made, if you measure two equal partes, one part smoked, and one (temporarily) mixed with pg and vaped, if people were to be honest with themselves and others, the psychotropic effects should or not be the same.. What we are trying to do is make a stable juice for tank systems ! thanks for the links and my mistake about family.................


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## Guzias1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Tests prove the mix don't separate, and delivers an excellent vape.. Sure, the cheap $5 tanks will burn out and or get clogged.. 

but its not like I haven't seen that before , ... (bong downstem) (pipe) ( joint) 

hmmm. Seems like you speak of resin build up .. Oh noooooo


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 8, 2014)

ok so done the exeriment as suggested ! just to see the result ! after an hour the solution has started to separate, not sure what we have done different, whats more we are using labourity material !!! we get far better results using a homogenizer with a T-17 generator shaft !!! http://www.catscientific.com/homogenizer-drives/ for more info..
All this defeats the object the idea behind the e cig is to eliminate nasty toxins, not to add ! 
Most sites with the same topic, recognise the importance of decarboxylation when using tintures with e cigs, for some reason here is not the case..
After 5 years of experimentation from crock pots to chloroform, the alcohol extraction (metioned in my first post) dirty as it is, seems to be the most efficient, safe, non toxic way (organic alcohol) for the general public to make tintures, that is to say these are my and fellow friends experiences..


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 8, 2014)

Decarboxyla said:


> Interesting links, but basically burning on a dry coil in a bowl ! the popjoe juice lol, people have been trying this since the e cigs came out, renowned for blocking and blowing the atomisers, the best method for this is homogeneous mixing and still not suitable for tank systems, as it separated and gloges the system, another point to be made, if you measure two equal partes, one part smoked, and one (temporarily) mixed with pg and vaped, if people were to be honest with themselves and others, the psychotropic effects should or not be the same.. What we are trying to do is make a stable juice for tank systems ! thanks for the links and my mistake about family.................


Yes, that is correct. As soon as I started e-cigarettes I immediately realized that I must make cannabis work in the device. You are wasting your time, money, and extracts. I have it fully mastered. I have exceeded vaporizing now. Dry coil? I don't do that. The PG USP is to prevent that from happening. 

Are you using really dirty oil or something? I hate to be the one to break the bad news, but I am 100% confident. 

Decarbed or non decarbed oil works awesome in e-cigarettes. It only takes me 5 minutes to convert my RSO or QWISO to e-cannabis oil. None of my coils get hot. The only time I have seen my coils get hot with my oil is when it is used with Persei or Omicron type products that are meant to be used with the oil straight and they suck as far as I am concerned. Yes, they are great for recreational use, but I am far past that. Like I said, I am past vaporizing. I am to gaseous form now. It can be achieved with vaporizers and there are other ways to achieve it too. It is this simple, premium high quality oil, preferably winterized, if you want to vaporize it and taste the strains, use an iClear 30. If you want gaseous form, use the iClear 30b. Of course you will need to mix your concentrate with PG USP. It only takes 1 to 5 minutes to blend. I can't imagine the need for anything more than high quality oil, PG USP, a coffee mug warmer, and a small metal cup. I just simply mix it with a syringe. I put it on and off the heat twice to be sure it is mixed well stirring with my 1CC syringe. I suck it up into the syringe, inject it into my iClear 30b, I use an SVD, APV, MOD vaporizer. Don't buy the crappy one from Hong Kong that is $37, get the quality kit for $89 from High Desert Vapes, batteries, and a charger, that is all you need. Like I said, I have exceeded vaporizing. Gaseous form of mj was put on a bill for Michigan for a reason, I now understand why. It is the freaking whoop. 

Sounds like you may be running a dispensary or something, testing for sale purposes. Here is all you need to know. http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1026-my-experience-with-portable-vaporizers-pen-vaporizers-for-concentrated-cannabis-oil-and-e-cigarette-oil/#commentsStart

Me personally, for making e-cannabis oil, I don't need anything else other than what I have described. My oil that I made for experimental purposes is well over 6 months old in a 30mL bottle, I still have it. It took 3 months before it started to separate. All I did was shake it and it didn't separate for another month or so. 

I must agree with Guzias1. Good quality oil, winterized, mixed with PG USP with a small amount of heat from a coffee mug warmer is all you need. I am not saying leave it on the coffee mug warmer. I leave it on for a minute or so, remove from heat, mix, put back on the heat, mix again, and you are good to go. At least when it comes to high quality oil or QWISO.


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 8, 2014)

final words, i am not trying to discredit any of the extraction methods, only trying to state that a décarboxylation prior to other extraction methods could help the final product for electronic cigarettes with tank systems, i have been testing with an evic, protank 3, and for the last 2 months the aspire nautilus, which imo is unbeatable as tank systems go.......


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 8, 2014)

sorry i didn't see your reply before my last post ! thank you for your answer, i have no time to reply in detail for the moment, WORK ! are there any lab results for this method ?


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 8, 2014)

Decarboxyla said:


> final words, i am not trying to discredit any of the extraction methods, only trying to state that a décarboxylation prior to other extraction methods could help the final product for electronic cigarettes with tank systems, i have been testing with an evic, protank 3, and for the last 2 months the aspire nautilus, which imo is unbeatable as tank systems go.......


decarbed or non decarbed oil before vaporizing: well that is difficult to explain. The best I can explain it is comparing indica to sativa. The non decarbed oil that I have tried (QWISO) is more of an instant buzz in some cases, less taste, but it can seem more potent or intense. Where as the decarbed oil (RSO) that is more unique. It exceeds indica. You can vape more of it, it is more comfortable. It can be more tasty only if correctly used in an electronic vaporizer. Must be of high quality with precision temperature settings. Non decarbed oil does not require such precision, but the precision is greatly preferred. 

I am not familiar with the aspire nautilus, but I am very familiar with the ProTank 3. For e-cannabis oil, I do not recommend the ProTank 3. Actually, when it comes to e-cannabis, I don't recommend glass. Glass helps bring out the taste of the PG USP and causes bad burning on the throat. There is a solution to this problem and that is why I recommend the iClear 30 series clearomizers. There is a lot of metal which masks any taste or negative effects of the PG USP. You can't even tell the PG USP is in the mix if you have everything tuned in just right. I think the ProTank 3 sucks for e-cannabis. Just the leaking problem alone is bad enough, not to mention the harshness. Switch to an iClear 30b if you like the bottom coil units and you will see a big difference especially if you are using top notch oil. 

Just trying to help people whether it is for business or personal. I just want to help patients get the best medicine. 

I have tested ounces, if not pounds of oil. So far the best is the $89 SVD with the $15 iClear 30b. I got the $89 SVD from High Desert Vapes and I purchased the iClear 30b from Ziggy's Vapes. The best batteries are the AW brand. I prefer the 18350 because the unit will be as small as possible, but you can simply telescope the battery cover down to where it will accept the larger 18650 battery or you can go in between and go with the 18490. Any 18 mm 3.7 volt battery will work for the SVD as far as I know right now. 

The ProTank 3 may be good for e-cigarettes. It is really cool that it has a 510 tip and you can put different drip tips on it, but it just does not compare to the iClear 30b. 
http://www.ziggysvapes.com/iclear-30b-dual-coil-clearomizer-sale-12-75-fully-instock/ mine came with the rotatable tip and that is the way I prefer it. I immediately ordered 2 more as soon as I saw how good they are and also got a 5 pack of replacement coils for $15. The only downside to the 30b that I have seen so far is you have to hold it horizontal and store it horizontal (laying down flat). If it is left standing upright it will leak. Also, if you hold it upside down it will eventually leak out the tip. Now the ProTank 3, it just leaks period and burns the shit out of my throat. I believe that is because of the glass and the coils are not as good as the iClear 30b coils. With the 30b, the coils are criss crossed. The ProTank 3 coils are stacked in the same direction. I prefer the criss crossing of the coils.


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 8, 2014)

Decarboxyla said:


> sorry i didn't see your reply before my last post ! thank you for your answer, i have no time to reply in detail for the moment, WORK ! are there any lab results for this method ?


Lab results, no. Experience and wisdom, yes.


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 8, 2014)

just a quick reply about bho, my main concern is the possibilité of polymerization, and is why i haven't really experimented with this kind of extraction, and yes pro tanks are not so good !! the nautilus however is another world, the i clear not a bad vape apart from the tank cracking with certain juices !


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 8, 2014)

you might find this an interesting read http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=23532


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 8, 2014)

Decarboxyla said:


> just a quick reply about bho, my main concern is the possibilité of polymerization, and is why i haven't really experimented with this kind of extraction, and yes pro tanks are not so good !! the nautilus however is another world, the i clear not a bad vape apart from the tank cracking with certain juices !


Please show some proof. I have read on many forums and even comments that the original innokin products made with plastic are some of the only products that do not crack or melt when using certain e-juice. Like cinnamon. I really don't recommend the iClear 30 for e-ciggs. The extra metal with the rotatable tip absorbs teh sweet flavorings. Sometimes it can give off a sour hit, but that is only the 30 top fed unit. I have only heard that their units do not crack or melt. Unless it is an imitation. They are out there.


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 8, 2014)

Decarboxyla said:


> the temperature of your e cig is no higher than 250°F propylene glycol evapoates at 210°F wich will carry thca as the temperature is no way high enough to transform thca to thc you can argue with scientiffic facts if you want, the Decarboxylation (and yes that is the true name) will occur in the e cig atomizer at about 5% of its poential strength !!! there are many ways many stories abot how to get hi with an e cig the decarb shown above has been done in high level scientific labs and has proved to be the most successful way !


This did concern me, so I only made a small amount of QWISO, with no heat. I added my PG USP and vaped it like decarbed RSO. It offered a very potent buzz. One hit and I fel t it. 
Yes, you are probably right scientifically, but there is something missing from the equation. So that would be false information. 

Let's go to the correct information. PG USP must lower the required temperature to convert THCa into THC (decarbing). Did they take PG USP into account when the stucy was done? 

This is not to you personally, this goes out to the science community: Wisdom far outweighs science. Science can be used as a tool in many ways. To hide the truth, lie, and to deceive. Maybe not in this case, but just about everything else in our lives.


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 8, 2014)

Decarboxyla said:


> Get into science !! *Easy Steps to Decarboxylation*
> 
> Consumer grade ovens are not always exact so I decided to shoot for a decarboxylation temperature of around 240° Fahrenheit. This should produce quick results without losing any medicinal potency. 30 minutes seemed like a nice round number for a first test and should give the kief and trim plenty of time to come up to temperature.
> Kief has a tendency to ball up in the bag which could lead to uneven temperatures and possibly uneven decarboxylation. Before I put it in the oven, I loosened up the clumps with a fork. While most of the trim was already fairly broken up from its time in the kief tumbler, there were still some budlets in the trim that I wanted to break apart.
> ...


Not intending to pick on you, and I do like the chart you have provided by SC Labs. It is a great opportunity to provide the truth. Even a dang lab test and I must defend the truth. I don't believe the lab intended to provide false information nor do I believe the poster intended any false information. 

Let us look at the THC. It shows before decarb .6% okay, 30 min decarb then 4.8%. That is when it should have been stopped. That is when damage to the product started to take place. Now it would be the same if you were making oil. Actually I am more referring to oil and this chart is a good example. 

At the 60 minute decarb the material has been tarnished, and damaged. The proof is right there on the chart. The total cannabanoids from the 30 min decarb is 7.9% but at the 60min decarb, raising the THC to 6.9% the total cannabanoids is only 7.3%. From what I recall, THC is a cannabanoid. How can this be? I know how, the material has been damaged at 60 minutes. At the 30 minutes the product needed to be preserved and allowed to naturally decarb from that point. I am sure it is much quicker with buds vs. oil placed into a sealed container. If this product would have been allowed to achieve its fullest potential, I am confident that the THC would have exceeded 7% and the CBDs would have exceeded 8%. I know this to be true, at least when it comes to oil. 

So here you have a lab result that shows you how to damage your product. It provides 100% correct information, which is very misleading because it does not provide any experience in actually making and consuming the product. How I made my discovery is with my oil. I never got into cooking cannabis. It has been over three years now and it has been nothing but oil for me. I have learned that if I gently purge my oil and allow it to cure for 6 weeks in a cool dark place, the potency can nearly double. 

Just an example of how lab results can be very misleading. 

I hope I am making sense. Sometimes it is not easy to really say what you are trying to say in typed responses.

Edit: as you can see the results I spoke of are the same with the kief and trim charts. Decarbing at its highest potential is a little bit more complex than just applying heat.


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 9, 2014)

hi, i have used and still have the i clear 30 s and personally have not had any problems, but being a polycarbonate tank, it's susceptible to certain juices, such as hot cinnamon (health alerts on that one), i don't use such concentrates, do you ? but i am quite fond of flavour arts cinnamon ceylon, in all forums you kinda see good sides bad sides, and hear reportes about all kinds of crap, what i said about the i clear cracking was not personal experience just reading experience, whilst still on the tank topic the pro leak tank, i find quite good for thicker tintures and juices vg base ! i totally recomend the nautilus, nothing comes near it (for tanks) imo of 5 years of vaping !! 
So lets get down to this chart, and i truly appreciate your comments, i posted this chart as i and friends (we) have tried many variantes, from no decarb, to 2 hour lower temperatures !! using Spirytus 96.5% vodka, tried chlorofil with quite good results, glycerin (no comment), and even acetone and ripped out every molecule there was, with the uncarbed tintures there was a quite recognisable difference in terms of hit, taste wise i found it easier and softer for me the sign of less thc, the 2 hour low temperature decarb was to much ! burned taste with little effect, you are quite right on your assumption of 30 mins, exactly my beleifs, but the chart indeed shows correct information and as my experence goes the one hour decarb seems to work the best, as to why, well science is not everything, i agree on a purge and have noticed a fine difference !! 
Here in europe i have not come accross BHO or QWISO i am sure they are there but to be honest i am a light smoker ! turned to the e cig to reduse as many toxins as possible, i grow organic, the idea of using butane no thanks i don't have access to ultra high purity butane and that does not come in tins at the local store or on ebay!! However if i was to do BHO etc and pay for the higher grade butane i would also invest in the Tamisium Essential Oil Extraction method maybe a little expencive but more the way to do things ! oh and as for the temperature yes pg 80 vg 20 usp, it was recorded with a thermal image at 150°C 3.7v 2ohms, i have done the same test with a probe at 2 ohms 3.2 to 5v pg vg mix and got results from 110 to 180°C not that the probe is very accurate! 
As for the mixing problems we have encountered i think it must be a problem with the oils we used, not very reliable sources !! and for that i must apologize! however the fact that thc is not soluble in glycerines due to there polar molecular structure is right, the fact you mix bho with pg shows the signs of clathrates, if anyone can inform me it would be appreciated. For the time being i will stay with the decarb alcohol freeze method, with a little homogeneous mixing to finish, it works and its clean free from terpenes , the Tamisium is however getting very tempting !!!!!


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 10, 2014)

I must agree about the VG not mixing with cannabis concentrates. Honestly, I can only think of one possible reason why somebody would want to use VG. That would be to dilute their concentrate so it is not as potent? Otherwise, I cannot think of any reason what so ever beyond that. When it comes to e-ciggs, the only purpose of the VG is as a base. When it comes to cannabis oils, that is the base product, and in a way it replaces the VG. Forget about nicotine, you can order it all without nicotine, VG is necessary for e-ciggs, that is why I consider it to be the main base product. What the hell would I want that diluted into my concentrate for! Using the correct equipment with high quality extracts, you won't taste any PG USP what so ever. I know I have not. Excluding plastic and glass, especially glass. When you go to metal, it hides all of the sweetness of the PG USP. The thicker the metal, the better. For some reason, with my strains, the metal in the iClear 30 and 30b does not absorb or mask the nice sweet flavor of my concentrate. Don't get me wrong, I do like some of the plastic clearomizers. Most of my oil I put into an iClear16 (not all). It has a really nice candy peach flavor. A lot of that I believe is from using Strawberry Cough. Like you, I have not tried BHO, at least I have not made any, I did try a sample and was not impressed. I have tried samples of oil made like mine and I was also not impressed. So, I can't blame BHO, but the cost to make it properly, well, at least in my opinion, is to use the 99% pure industrial tank butane not to mention the other items required, now that can take you into the thousands of dollars. I have not seen any BHO product that exceeds what I can do with alcohol and a freezer. Now a cryo freezer would be awesome. Now that is an investment I may consider! It is amazing what you can do with a little dry ice, but you must be careful, dry ice can be dangerous. Hey man, let's just get this straight, I am rambling here, and I am totally baked! LOL I just watched a video last night and it showed how to make a cross joint, I never saw that before so I had to hurry up and make one myself. I quit smoking, but I gotta try a cross joint so I can say that I did. It was pretty cool man and the roach today was killer. The main stem was TGA Qush, short heavy indica phenotype and my own personal 4-G, very old bag seed strain was the horizontal cross. That sucker is down to a little stump now!  It was pretty good. 

The video is on facebook so I don't know if this link will work, but here you go. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=138073306385842&set=vb.136940799832426&type=2&theater

   

First try and S U C C E S S ! 
It was just something different and kind of cool. I don't see myself going out of my way to do it all the time. 

Oops! went a little off topic here!

 

Edit: Cool, I guess the link does work. Just watched the video again, and it seems I left out one part, I suppose I would have anyway and that was the piece of cardboard at the end. To each their own.


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## XRE (Feb 11, 2014)

Grow Goddess said:


> Please show some proof. I have read on many forums and even comments that the original innokin products made with plastic are some of the only products that do not crack or melt when using certain e-juice. Like cinnamon. I really don't recommend the iClear 30 for e-ciggs. The extra metal with the rotatable tip absorbs teh sweet flavorings. Sometimes it can give off a sour hit, but that is only the 30 top fed unit. I have only heard that their units do not crack or melt. Unless it is an imitation. They are out there.


All innokin plastic tanks will crack with certain juices. Natural citrus, hot cinnamon, anise flavorings, etc. The type of plastic tanks that don't crack will have a frosted cloudy look to them, although there aren't that many around these days since most manufacturers are finally switching to glass for everything.

For people looking for the best performance using concentrates out of an ecig style device, looking into rebuildable atomizers is the way to go.

All the tanks people are using for concentrate vaping are cheap chinese tanks, with little coils and wicks which don't perform that great, and gunk up quickly. They have come along way since when clearos first came out (clearos being the name for that category of atomizer)

The power levels most people are vaping their concentrates is aroud 8 watts of power. All my ecigs are currently running around 30-50 watts of power. Those I use for nicotine not concentrates, but my concentrate rig is running at around 20 watts of power, and delivers hits that are absolutely mind blowing.

Look into rebuildable dripping atomizers, called an "RDA" in the ecig world. There are a million different models available, but many that are good quality and easy to work with can be had under $20. With these you actually wrap the coils yourself, which gives you the ability to improve performance past any commercially available product. 

It takes a bit of investment in time getting the hang of it, but there are many tutorials on youtube that make it easy for new people. 

To achieve the high power levels I talked about earlier you need a mechanical mod, which has no wiring or boards, and just supplies straight power from the battery. You also need a battery rated for high-amp draw, I use Sony VTC4s that can handle 30 amps, and have a rated capacity of 2000mAh.

If you don't want that hassle, you can still use rebuildables on APVs (like the itaste SVD shown earlier) for power levels of 12-20 watts depending on the model and configuration.

This was an easy transition for me since I've been heavily involved with ecigs for several years, and I already had the skills and knowledge required to get a high-performance device. Once I figured out the easy mix of PG, PGA (alcohol) and BHO everything came together.

Not my video, but it shows the type of vapor production the higher-end stuff can give you. Imagine that vapor laced with BHO instead of Nicotine and you start getting the idea. His clouds are towards the end, no need to watch the whole video (although it does show the process of rebuilding, albeit more complex than it needs to be)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1orqmjjgMMA


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 11, 2014)

i went through a few years of wrapping coils with a fogger most of the time using Kanthal wire, fun cheap, easy to do low ohms, keeping in mind that standard e go type batteries won't work under 1.5 ohms so a better mod is required ! I stopped about a year ago as my nicotine craving was no longer there, i started at 36mg working my way down to 5mg in the space of 3 years, i was a 2 PAD smoker for 30 years, you can imagine ! i used a vamo mod and went for the evic not so long ago, works good although some silly gimmicks, puff counter ??? 
The more vg the more vapor but less taste, some people create allergies mainly to pg, personally no probs, i mix depending on my juice, normally around 70 30, my favourite juices are still tobacco "tribeca clones", i use pure tobacco absolute in nearly all my recipes, but sometimes go for irish coffee ect and fruit juices...
Funny i never thought i would ever stop smoking joints i have a passion for growing, 100% organic ! and living in the south of france a good climate for outdoor growing, i started getting into tintures when i stopped smoking and finally stopped the joints a few years ago ! health wise its done wonders, and with the hit i get from my extracts even if it isn't quite the same i am happy with that, at 50 years old i feel fitter than when i was 20 !!!!! 
When making a thc juice i evaporate all the alcohol , leaving a thick dark oil, the oil i then mix with ethyl maltol crystals, quarter tsp per 2g oil and mix that with 2ml pg at low heat ! then homogenize, i find 2 or three drops of this solution per 5 ml juice fine for an all day vape, the evenings well depends on the day, but the skys the limit "lol" my juices do seperate after time but in general i make very small quantities and if need be a remix works.. 
you talked about batteries for me the panasonic or the sanyo 18650 being a so called 3400mha gives me everything i need and again the Nautilus is a dream imo the best tank on the market !


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## Decarboxyla (Feb 11, 2014)

propylene glycol (C3H8O2) boils at 188°C it will decompose around 250°C 
Now what is the idea behind the e cig ? for me and millions of others to kick the killer, tobacco ! looking on youtube you can see those huge quantities of vapor (mainly vg), WHY ?? i suppose it's like most things everyone wants better, or what they think is better, kinda kidish, look how much vapor i can make, or you can use the variable voltages, watts, ohms to concerve battery life and improve taste, to heat the coils at temperatures over 250°C can create toxins (acrolein is one major concern), as well as those huge clouds, not only that it will destroy the taste and kill your battery, why ?? Same story with everything, cars that exceed the speed limit 3 fold not good for the enviroment pocket or health ! The mods are great but not to showoff, clouds of vapor doesn't mean good...


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 11, 2014)

@XRE:
I watched half of the video, no need to see the rest.

One reason is I see no purpose for a giant vapor cloud, actually it is kind of obnoxious. I realize many are in to that, and it could somewhat be considered a sport (competition). I am perfectly content with a simple iClear 16 and a eGo C Twist VV battery. Actually, I prefer the iClear 16 from Hong Kong, those are crystal clear, unlike the American version. Again, I see no proof that the American version cracks. The American version is smoked compared to the Honk Kong ones. I have heard people that use the cinnamon e-cigg oils state that the plastic on the iClear tanks have not cracked like all the others have. Even with the other oils that commonly crack plastic. I cannot say whether or not that is true, I don't use flavored e-cigg oils that commonly crack the plastic. I would be afraid to. 

Back on topic, somewhat, The unit in the video is completely unacceptable for e-cannabis, period. Why? All of that wicking. The point of switching to the iClear 30b (bottom coil with pretty much no wick) is so I don't waste half of my concentrate. Using the unit in the video, you would waste 3/4 of your concentrate because it will get trapped in the wicks. Either way, you have to clean your wicks, unless you want your vape to taste like crap. 

Dude, you need to try a regular MOD like an SVD with your concentrate converted to e-cannabis oil. Preferably top shelf oil that has been winterized. Then you will understand where I am coming from. 

I have to agree with Decarboxyla for the most part. I think mechanical vapes have a lot of potential. I may even design and build my own. 

When it comes to e-cannabis, I prefer very minimal to zero vapor exhale. At least with my concentrates and my equipment. That is when it tastes the best and provides me with my most preferred buzz. 

Thanks for sharing the video, it was interesting.


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## XRE (Feb 11, 2014)

Totally understandable position, different strokes for different folks and all that 

Before getting into rebuildables I used VV/VW APV with commercial attys, but for my nicotine vaping purposes it did not suffice and the performance I got from RDAs finally allowed me to quit cigarettes.

The beauty of rebuildables is that you can configure it any way you like. I actually have built some totally wickless coils for the sole purposes of solid concentrate vaping, vaped great but you run into issues with the conentrate running off the coil once it becomes liquid due to the heat. I had some ceramic cups that I pulled from old CE2 clearos, built a coil inside, and it catches all the run-off and vapes it up.

When I made concentrate liquids I first dissolve it in ethanol, and then mix the ethanol in with PG. Perhaps this step more completely dissolves the concentrate instead of simply keeping it in suspension, which allows it to bypass the wicks better, not sure, but I haven't had any issues with severe gunking or anything. It gunks up quicker than my nicotine juice but that's to be expected.


There is also a new product in the ecig world called vapin donuts. They are tiny donut shaped ceramic heating elements. These seem to be the best option yet for concentrates- no (exposed) metal, and non-conductive.. I haven't tried them yet, they are extremely new and the initial sample run is sold out, and it's going to be months before the full scale production hits and these become widely available. Seems to hold promise though.

I use a dripper for my concentrate fluid, and I have very stubby silica wicks that barely go past the coil, so it's very similar to the coil head in your clearo, just more powerful. I don't use mine as a way to stealth-consume bho or anything, just a different high and different vape experience, so this setup wouldn't be good for people that take their bhojuice out in public. I mean it would work, but be more suspicious looking than a normal ecig. 

The main advantage to me is I can get massive hits from my ecigs, instantly. No heating a nail, no preparing a dab. Just drip some juice a press a button, and still get super powerful vapes. It's basically just my electronic oil rig for when I want to grab a quick pick-me up, not meant to be a portable of stealth rig.

I knew it wouldn't be for everybody, but I figured I'd put the info up in case someone is interested in a new setup


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 11, 2014)

Don't get me wrong. i do appreciate you showing that. It is another piece of the pie so to speak. I am interested in all options. I have not used a mechanical vape yet, but going by what I have seen in various videos, I think I like the Kraken the best only for rebuilding your own coils. Basically the same as what you showed, but with a tank. 

This is like the video you showed, but this unit has a tank. You can have single or double coil, you build it yourself with whatever gauge wire. This unit does interest me more so for an APV when it comes to e-cannabis. I could say more, but I will keep that to myself for now. As for glass, when it comes to e-cannabis, well, I have made my investments and glass in my opinion does not go well with e-cannabis (concentrate mixed with PG USP). Two big reasons why, taste, the glass brings out much of the PG USP taste, metal is the opposite, it hides/masks the PG USP taste. The second reason I don't care for glass with e-cannabis is it burns the crap out of my throat. At first it doesn't seem that way, but over time, it does. I must admit, the Kraken does look tempting to me. Mechanical vapes look tempting to me too, but I need to design something to go with the mechanical vape for it to be acceptable to me. I would love to be able to work with that. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVkIY_gNQ_0

Here is what first clued me in with the glass. I had this custom made. Luckily it accepts the 510 drip tips. I have one that was also custom blown glass. I can use the glass drip tip on other devices, such as the ProTank 3 and others. That made me realize that the glass really aids in the burning effect on the throat. For e-cigarettes, I prefer plastic or poly... and for e-cannabis I prefer a lot of metal.



iClear 30 top coil


iClear 30b bottom coil


I have tried many clearomizers, glass, plastic, and metal. I have gone through many ounces of pure oil doing the testing. My two favorites are the iClear 30 and the iClear 30b. The iClear 30 top fed for tasting the strains and the iClear 30b bottom fed for more of a gaseous vape like nitrous oxide at the dentist and more continuous hits also longer lasting coil.


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## XRE (Feb 11, 2014)

Hard to tell but the glass one posted above that you noted as tasting off looks to be a carto-tank. There is a center steel tube with threads on the bottom that can be slid in and out of the tank, right? If so your problem probably lies with using a cartomizer, they have a cotton batting around the coil, which works great for eliquid, but for hash oils and other things can cause problems.

Where as the other tanks you mention having good luck with use the clearo coil-head type sysem with sillica wick. I suspect that is the cause of the difference, as the tank material (especially if it's glass) shouldn't have an effect on anything. The actual vaporizaion takes place on the coil which is insulated from the tank, so I'd bet your problems are elsewhere. 

The kraken is a great atty, if might be tricky with concentrate stuff because it's designed as a genesis atty, which uses rolled up stainless steel mesh (very similar to stainless screen people use on their BHO tubes) as the wicking material. I haven't tried concentrates with ss mesh yet, but I would worry about flavor suffering. Genesis devices are also very difficult to setup for people not used to rebuilding, as you have problems with the coil shorting out against the wick. When this happens you get an awful metallic taste, and using concentrates might make this more likely. Worth a shot, although it might be a gamble if you are risking the money for concentrate use only.

You can wick genesis devices with silica, to get it more similar to how the iclears work, but genesis devices usually have wicking issues when using silica since they are designed for a wick with different properties.

If you want a rebuildable tank that uses silica like your iclears, you should look into the Kayfun style atties. They are becoming quite popular because they are one of the few non-mesh rebuildable tanks out there. They work great with silica or cotton, but for concentrate purposes again I'd stick to silica.

You can still use these with the variable wattage/voltage APVs, you just have to make sure your resistance levels are at least 1.4 ohms or so depending on the device.

If you ever plan to give it a shot feel free to PM me with any questions you have and I'll do my best to point you in the right direction.


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 12, 2014)

I am positive it is not the cartomizer. I will prove it with a picture.



This is a Kanger Tech ProTank3. I took the metal drip tip off (510) and put the custom glass 510 drip tip. It made the burning worse with the glass drip tip, very noticeable. The glass tip did add flavor, but increased the burning effect. Thick metal is my preference with e-cannabis. 


You seem to be quite familiar with the mechanical vapes. What is your opinion of the wicking that is used for the Kracken? Do you know if you can replace that type of wick with the silica wick? I do not own a Kracken. 

Are you familiar with mechanical vapes that can be fully variable wattage and voltage? I think I am going to get me a mechanical vape. What is your opinion on the magnetic power buttons instead of the spring loaded ones? 

I would like to know your thoughts and opinions. 

Thank you


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## XRE (Feb 13, 2014)

Grow Goddess said:


> I am positive it is not the cartomizer. I will prove it with a picture.
> 
> View attachment 2992723
> 
> ...


Oh yeah that's a protank, I was talking about that other one (in that picture it's the bottom left tank, sitting next to your mod) I was mistaken and thought you were talking about that one when it was in a picture earlier.

The stainless mesh wicks for the kraken work great for nicotine liquid, but I haven't tried them with concentrate liquid. I suspect it wouldn't work well, but you never know. Silica work generally doesn't work well with genesis devices (like the Kraken) but some people have had limited success. But if you are new to rebuilding it's going to be lot of work and there is no promise it will wick properly.

Mechanical mods by nature aren't vv or vw, but you can get a kick module which is what I'm assuming you have seen. It's basically a small chip that you simply add on top of your battery in a mechanical mod, to turn it into a variable wattage device. These are limited to 12 watts I believe so high power is desired they aren't the best choice, but if you are OK with those power levels they work great because you get regulated constant vaping voltage.


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## Grow Goddess (Feb 13, 2014)

Very good, you definitely know your e-cigg devices. If I were going to choose a kick it would be the kick 2. Not for higher power, but for the higher precision of the lower power settings. Kick 2 has pretty good ratings, the kick 1, well, not so good. That is just one option. There are others. More so in the marijuana world. That really helps that the wicking works with the kracken for e-ciggs. It may work wonders for e-cannabis, I wish I knew. 

Are you not familiar with the magnetic power buttons? I can't say that I have tried one, but supposedly they last a lifetime compared to a spring. 

Mechanical mods can be great for e-ciggs, but there must be some form of power adjustment in order to accommodate e-cannabis in my opinion. At least for now, until we learn how to do a pure extraction of 100% THC. I may send some PM's, you seem quite informed about this stuff. Mechanical mods is the only portable vaporizer equipment that I have not tried yet. I think I may go for it. 

Thanks, I appreciate the insight and feedback.


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## nommosan (Feb 17, 2014)

Very interested in this thread, it's why I joined... Recently quit smoking with the help of ecigs (kanger protank mini 2) and of course as a UK smoker of tobacco spliffs for 20 + years, I needed to separate the two. I use a volcano but I'm very interested in experimenting with some tank mods to be able to add some kind of concentrate tincture...that would be very handy


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## ak420grw (Feb 23, 2014)

Someone's probably going to tell me that I'm an absolute moron for doing this but I've had good results mixing 1/3 grain alcohol tincture and 2/3 e-cig juice. Doesn't get you super high but it does give you a nice light vape buzz. The e-cig juice I use lists grain alcohol as an ingredient anyway so I figure it's fairly safe, but I could be wrong.


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## charface (Feb 23, 2014)

ak420grw said:


> Someone's probably going to tell me that I'm an absolute moron for doing this but I've had good results mixing 1/3 grain alcohol tincture and 2/3 e-cig juice. Doesn't get you super high but it does give you a nice light vape buzz. The e-cig juice I use lists grain alcohol as an ingredient anyway so I figure it's fairly safe, but I could be wrong.


Not gonna call ya an idiot but are they listing trace amounts. 
I can see using the alcohol to extract then
cooking off the alcohol once it is infused
with tincture
or even before but not into yourself.

I have witnessed unpurged iso hash smoked and it was scary. 
Like cant breath for a long time and puking.

Wait,,,,, 
Are you fukin wit me? :screwy:


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## krakajax (Mar 3, 2014)

first time poster, so are you vaping straight rso?


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## BusBlast (Mar 12, 2014)

Hey guys, Lurker here.. decided to register because it seems you guys were touching on what I'm doing and it got me a little excited.

Currently, I'm simply heating bho and PG, then mixing them together. Usually use a ratio of 1g:1ml Very simple, works well, pretty potent. Nothing's lasted longer than a few days, but I've yet to see any separation.


Now, I also use Mechanical Mods and RDA's. Currently, I'm just dripping 1-2 drops onto a cotton wicked subohm coil.. works very well. I am very, very versed in the "E-Cig" world... I don't even call them E-Cigs, I'm more of a hobby-level enthusiast that is only into Mechanical Mods. That being said, I probably wouldn't suggest a tank RBA (like Kraken) to be used in this fashion. I actually had a Kraken and didn't care for it.. I am 100% into dripping atomizers, which I find to be perfect cuz I like my "e-cannabis" to be potent for 1-2 drops to be effective. Long story short.. I love Mechs and Drippers and steering to the extreme side of the hobby. I also believe these devices should be powerful enough to do what I've been doing (and seem to handle it just fine)

Some posts here have made me curious, however.

Some say that the device's coils will not get hot enough for the THC? I find myself getting pretty ripped off 1-2 drops.. so I'm a bit confused. Perhaps since I run subohms, my coils heat up quicker and hotter? I'm talking like.. .25 ohms here.. Like the other guy said.. my wattage/amperage/resistance gets pretty insane sometimes... Pretty much blows a ego/spinner/vv/vw out of the water

Also, I have no idea what decarbing does, or if it's relevant to what I'm doing... should this be something I should look into?


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## Grow Goddess (Mar 13, 2014)

Running such low ohms (sub ohm), what size batteries are you using? 

What gauge wire are you using to build your coils? When running dual coil. 

I am all ears on any good 18mm battery, less than 80mm long, that will release more than 5 amps. I haven't done that much research on batteries yet. Some of my carts I will have to get a different battery for my mechanical. The largest battery my mechanical will accept is the AW 18650 2600mAH protected. It would be nice to find a battery that can release (edit it would be nice to find something same length or shorter that would release 8 to 12 amps) more than 5 amps that is the same size or shorter.



I must say, nobody is blowing the doors off my eGo C Twist or APV MOD! Especially with a RDA. It is all personal preference. I look at it as there are 3 types of vaporizers. 4 types if you want to count junk and scams. The 3 would be a VV pen vape (great for stealth), an APV MOD - to me these are mandatory as a vape enthusiast they help in every single aspect except for stealth some rigs for example a titanium KISS cart is meant for a digital vape a mechanical vape will not run it as well not to mention they make unbelievable carts for APVs like an iClear 30b I like the bottom fed units since they basically have not wick which means no waste as long as it does not leak, third would be a mechanical vape they work completely differently. I have to admit that the mechanical vape is my favorite to use, but as an example of them working different is when you push the power button it sends a high pulse to the cart and that causes it to have a different effect. It is a great improvement when running the standard KISS cart. I like all of them, each has their different qualities and benefits. 


This is a little mechanical vape with an 18350 battery. It can telescope to accept 18650 batteries. It has a 510 - 601 adapter so I can use the regular KISS cart on it. I must say, it is impressive, especially with a mechanical vape. It is almost like they were meant for each other. 


The unit on the left is a Kraken clone. The benefit with that is when using metal wicking you can simply rinse your wicks with alcohol and get your oil back. Not to mention you can rebuld it without having to remove any oil. 


I have been starting to steer away from wicking systems. I really like the bottom fed units like the one on the left, an iClear 30b. The unit on the right is a pen battery with a titanium KISS. The only problem with the bottom fed units is that they are prone to leaking so you need to keep it sideways. A new unit was just released that has upper air control so it shouldn't leak at all. Can't wait to try it, basically no wicking. Pretty much dual coils submerged in a tank full of e-cannabis oil. It gives an extraordinary gaseous hit. It is very difficult to describe it. 



Just a standard top fed dual coil iClear 30. I have tried all kinds of vaporizing devices and this is the only unit that I have tried where I can literally taste the individual strains I used to make the oil. 


Different devices have different effects on the taste. Even the same cart and switching from an electronic vape to a mechanical vape can have big changes on the taste. You may not even realize it. I took a few too many pokes on my e-cigg oil using my mechanical vape with my iClear 16 for e-ciggs!! It was just so smooth I didn't realize I was taking in that much oil! 


I haven't had the time to do the research. If you have some answers to my questions with my mechanical vape, in regards to the battery, it would be appreciated. I will happily answer one of your questions. 

Decarbed oil, not decarbed oil: You are right, you can get high vaporizing non decarbed oil as long as you are able to vaporize it, doesn't matter what ohms you are running as far as I know. There is a big difference in the buzz between the two. Non decarbed oil the buzz comes on faster. It reminds me of a sativa buzz. Decarbed oil the buzz comes on slower and it reminds me more of an indica buzz. Same strains to make each type of oil. 

It has almost been a year now that I have dedicated my grow room to testing vaporizers strictly meant for oil. Never been a fan of vaping buds. It is healthier and I do recommend it vs. smoking. I just wasn't satisfied until I started vaporizing cannabis oil. Vaporizing e-cannabis oil and vaping straight with the KISS cart and a mechanical vape.


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## Grow Goddess (Mar 15, 2014)

Here is a tool I really like to use with my e-cannabis. It has a big effect on the flavor since it is constructed with quality glass. One of the newest rigs on the market, Aero Tank. Dual coil, bottom fed, with air intake control, sealed 510 threads with no leakage to battery. If one of the coils goes bad, it is no big deal at all, you won't even lose juice. Simply flip the unit over like you are going to fill it. Remove the heating coil and thread in a new one. You will only lose about a drop of oil and the coils are only about $3 each. 

Still breaking it in, but so far I am very pleased with it and is currently on my favorite list. Only time will tell at this point whether or not it is worthy to keep around. It really makes me happy that I am able to use it on my 3.7Volt mechanical vape. I enjoy using the mechanical vapes.


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## doublejj (Mar 31, 2014)

I hope somebody posted in there somewhere that it's not propylene glycol. they should use "*Polyethylene glycol (PEG)" *


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## Grow Goddess (Apr 7, 2014)

doublejj said:


> I hope somebody posted in there somewhere that it's not propylene glycol. they should use "*Polyethylene glycol (PEG)" *


My avatar may say New Member, but I have been registered here since 2009 and have been growing premium dank for 15 years. 

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, at least if you live in North America, or if you are Amish, but then you wouldn't be on a computer, I live in an area where there are a lot of Amish families.

You are mass consuming Propylene Glycol USP every day. You eat food from this country, yes? Well actually the whole continent. PG USP is in your food, beverages, and in your medicine too. If you live in North America it is completely unregulated and fully approved by the FDA.

I am not saying it is good for you, but it works better than PEG going by the feedback I have received. Do your research and be sure to look up the proper chemical Propylene Glycol USP medical/food grade. That is why it is used in e-cigarettes.

1 year of my e-cigg habit by far exceeds an entire lifetime use with cannabis oil mixed with PG USP and vaporized.

I am not referring to PG, I am talking about PG USP. Sometimes it is called PG USP Kosher.

Maybe you live in Europe where PG USP is highly regulated. 1 liter of soda pop is allowed to contain 1mL (one gram) of PG USP in Europe.

Who knows what else is in our food here in NA. You think they have to disclose the chemicals that are used in processing? You are mistaken. There are plenty of more dangerous chemicals in our food than what we know.

Did you know that the Obama administration just increased the allowable radiation levels found in seafood by 100% so we can still purchase seafood that was caught in radiation effected waters in Japan. In Japan, that food is considered toxic, not even worthy to feed to the livestock. If you want to worry about people taking poison, you can start with our FDA and the food allowed into the USA.

Personally, I would put PG USP at the bottom of my list of things to worry about. You may want to start with the cancer causing pesticides in and on our food.

Then again, you may be like the others and somehow you are not affected by any of this. Must be magic. I wish I had the time to grow my own food, raise my own livestock, make my own beverages, and not have any worry about any contaminants.

If you really want to go against PG USP, you are barking up the wrong tree. If you want to go against it when it comes to vaporizing, you should be talking on the e-cigarette forums. E-cigarettes are becoming quite popular in the USA.


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## Grow Goddess (Apr 7, 2014)

Personally, I would much rather use something that is common in medicine for use in vaporizers such as Propylene Glycol USP. 

Here is some fun information about PEG, which is used in laxatives... 

But, to each their own is suppose 

*Medical uses*

PEG is the basis of a number of laxatives (e.g., macrogol-containing products, such as Movicol and *polyethylene glycol 3350*, or SoftLax, MiraLAX,ClearLAX, or GlycoLax). Whole bowel irrigation with polyethylene glycol and added electrolytes is used for bowel preparation before surgery or colonoscopy. The preparation is sold under the brand names *GoLYTELY*, *GaviLyte C*, *NuLytely*, *GlycoLax*, *Fortrans*, *TriLyte*, *Colyte*, *Halflytely*, *Softlax*, *Lax-a-Day*, *ClearLax* and *MoviPrep*. In the United States, *MiraLAX* and *Dulcolax Balance* are sold without prescription for short-term relief of chronic constipation. Miralax is currently FDA approved for adults for a period of seven days, and is not approved for children.[6] A 2007 comparison showed that patients suffering from constipation had a better response to PEG medications than to tegaserod.[7] These medications soften the fecal mass by osmotically drawing water into the GI tract. It is generally well tolerated, however, side effects are possible bloating, nausea, gas, and diarrhea (with excessive use).

When attached to various protein medications, polyethylene glycol allows a slowed clearance of the carried protein from the blood. This makes for a longer-acting medicinal effect and reduces toxicity, and allows longer dosing intervals. Examples include PEG-interferon alpha, which is used to treat hepatitis C, and PEGfilgrastim (Neulasta), which is used to treat neutropenia. It has been shown that polyethylene glycol can improve healing of spinal injuries in dogs.[8] One of the earlier findings, that polyethylene glycol can aid in nerve repair, came from the University of Texas (Krause and Bittner).[9] Polyethylene glycol is also commonly used to fuse B-cells with myeloma cells in monoclonal antibody production.

PEG is used as an excipient in many pharmaceutical products. Lower-molecular-weight variants are used as solvents in oral liquids and soft capsules, whereas solid variants are used as ointment bases, tablet binders, film coatings, and lubricants.[10]

PEG is also used in lubricating eye drops.


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## doublejj (Apr 9, 2014)

"PEG is used as an excipient in many pharmaceutical products. Lower-molecular-weight variants are used as solvents in* oral liquids and soft **capsules*, whereas solid variants are used as ointment bases, tablet binders, film coatings, and lubricants.[10]

PEG is also used in lubricating *eye drops**."*
If PEG is used as a base for eye drops & oral liquids & soft capsules, it can't be bad to consume.
P.S. and PG is used in antifreeze....


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## gotank420 (Apr 13, 2014)

Grow Goddess said:


> Please show some proof. I have read on many forums and even comments that the original innokin products made with plastic are some of the only products that do not crack or melt when using certain e-juice. Like cinnamon. I really don't recommend the iClear 30 for e-ciggs. The extra metal with the rotatable tip absorbs teh sweet flavorings. Sometimes it can give off a sour hit, but that is only the 30 top fed unit. I have only heard that their units do not crack or melt. Unless it is an imitation. They are out there.


Cinnamon flavors and certain other flavors can crack tanks


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## Grow Goddess (Apr 13, 2014)

doublejj said:


> "PEG is used as an excipient in many pharmaceutical products. Lower-molecular-weight variants are used as solvents in* oral liquids and soft **capsules*, whereas solid variants are used as ointment bases, tablet binders, film coatings, and lubricants.[10]
> 
> PEG is also used in lubricating *eye drops**."*
> If PEG is used as a base for eye drops & oral liquids & soft capsules, it can't be bad to consume.
> P.S. and PG is used in antifreeze....


Please get off the antifreeze trip. Yes, PG is used in antifreeze. Where do I mention straight PG? 

Again, medical/food grade PG USP is not the same chemical. Get your facts straight before advising. 

Go whine to the FDA. PG USP is used in the manufacture of food and beverages. 

There are restrictions on PEG. PEG is more dangerous to use for more than 9 days straight.


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## Grow Goddess (Apr 13, 2014)

gotank420 said:


> Cinnamon flavors and certain other flavors can crack tanks


In most cases, yes this is true. That carries no value to me. I don't put cinnamon flavors in my e-cannabis or my e-cigarettes. I have tried $1,000 worth of different equipment and many different e-cigarette oils. In some cases, plastic is more preferred in regards to taste. With some flavors, they taste better with metal. Other flavors taste better with glass. It is all personal preference. 

I have heard of plastic tanks cracking, but I cannot say that I have heard of an innokin cracking. Funny, a statement is not proof. Got a picture? Just saying...

Either way, it does not effect me. 

If I saw an e-cigg oil that cracked plastic. Well, I sure as hell would not want to be vaporizing that oil! 

Here is what I am vaping and it works awesome!

A quick frozen rinse QWISO , 99% iso, this is what I am using and mixing with PG USP for my e-cigg vape.


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## Bublonichronic (Apr 16, 2014)

Finally got around to making some vg/bho for the atmos c-cig, took forever on pretty high heat to get it to mix at about 50/50 ratio and even then there was a dark residue layer on top of the golden vg that seemd to be wicked up first and tasted pretty hashy, these things are pretty cool a couple rips and I can get pretty stoned, last a good while too


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## Olympus Mons (May 28, 2014)

VG and cannabis oil will separate over time. Skunk Farms has to use a homogenization process to get the VG and BHO to stick together. For people who are allergic or just don't care for PG I would recommend PEG 400 as it blends really well with cannabis oil and stays mixed for a long time. I like the hit it gives also.


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## murdergrow (May 30, 2014)

Grow Goddess said:


> Please get off the antifreeze trip. Yes, PG is used in antifreeze. Where do I mention straight PG?.


Antifreeze originally used ethylene glycol but it would kill pets when they drank puddle of antifreeze. the reason propylene glycol is in antifreeze now is because it is a less harmful substance to ingest than ethylene glycol


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## murdergrow (May 30, 2014)

doublejj said:


> I hope somebody posted in there somewhere that it's not propylene glycol. they should use "*Polyethylene glycol (PEG)" *


The O.pen Vape cartridges(OrganaLabs and Bakked) contain co2 oil mixed with propylene glycol for consistency. Some DIY ecig juice bases(targeted to nic and thc users) conatin a mix of PG and different grades of PEG. there is nothing wrong with vaping PG and saying that it is only PEG used and not PG is misinformation


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## qwizoking (May 30, 2014)

VG is horrible for you, peg isn't ready, leaving pg


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 1, 2014)

That would be PG USP medical/food grade. Sometimes you will see it as Kosher PG USP.

Nothing else added. To mix with your concentrate, get plain PG USP.

I order mine from reputable e-cigg companies.

Edit:
It has been a little over a year now of no combustion. After a year, there is no going back! Combustion and the stink. I just can't imagine going back. 

They keep coming out with cool new products that can be used with e-cannabis.


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## moon47usaco (Jun 2, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> VG is horrible for you, peg isn't ready, leaving pg


How could vegetable glycerin be bad for you... Granted it does not mix with thc oil without laboratory grade equipment but i would think that the most natural solution would provide less of a health risk... ??


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## qwizoking (Jun 2, 2014)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein
No saying the word natural or organic just makes people feel better


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 4, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein
> No saying the word natural or organic just makes people feel better


Can you please enlighten us a bit more? Can you verify that the Vegetable Glycerine used in the e-cigg industry is the synthetic form which can contain Acrolein? 

Since I am an e-cigg user, I have some interest. As far as I have found, non-synthetic VG does not contain Acrolein.


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## qwizoking (Jun 5, 2014)

Reread wherever you heard that..
VG turns into acrolein when heated. It shouldn't already be in it


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## BWG707 (Jun 5, 2014)

From what I've read it takes temps of 554F plus, to make VG turn into acrolein.


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## qwizoking (Jun 5, 2014)

Yes this is true?
Coincidentally about the same temp as a lighter.. coils run a fair bit hotter than that and can often burn vg, especially if used incorrectly


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 5, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> Yes this is true?
> Coincidentally about the same temp as a lighter.. coils run a fair bit hotter than that and can often burn vg, especially if used incorrectly


Sorry, but I must disagree. 
They do not run that hot when used correctly. Unless it is some total piece of junk. I have not seen a coil of mine red hot yet. 
If you are using an e-cigg for e-cannabis or e-cigg oil and your coils are glowing, something is very wrong. You will know if your VG is burning, it will taste very bad. 

I looked into it and the only VG that I could find that would convert to acrolein after heating to and over 554 deg F is the synthetic form of VG. 

VG like PG USP is used in many food and beverage applications as well as medications.


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## BWG707 (Jun 5, 2014)

There have been several studies done concerning this. Check out some of the Ecig forums, lots of info there. When atomizers coils are coated in a vaping solution the temps are drastically reduced.


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## qwizoking (Jun 5, 2014)

If its glowing its not 500 degrees lol
And I specifically said "when used incorrectly" like people new to them.
So your saying only if the compound came from man will acrolein be produced? Well that's not true at all lol..
And yes I know how hot they run. I've posted several studies and measured my kangertech protank

But I'm not gonna argue this. Everyone that's ever used one has had a hot hit


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 7, 2014)

Not looking to argue, looking to learn. The articles I came across only mentioned the synthetic form of VG converting to acrolein. 

What were the temperatures you measured? What type of measuring device did you use for your KangerTech unit? I am curious, I wouldn't mind knowing the exact temperatures mine is running. Been considering investing into a quality laser thermometer for many uses. Not sure if it will work for measuring the coil temps though, but willing to give it a try. 

So far with the new KangerTech bottom coils I have not gotten a hot hit yet. Not even close. I believe it is because the coils are at the bottom submerged. 

With the top fed units, yes I would get a hot hit now and then. Lack of patience waiting for the wicking to absorb more oil I suppose. Also, most would eventually leak out the mouthpiece, this is with e-cigg oil. 

Lately for my e-ciggs I have been using the Aspire CE5 BDC. I don't care for this one as much for e-cannabis, but I do like it for my e-cigg oils. I don't get any leakage out the tip, it is sealed.


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 7, 2014)

See, no issue with using VG here. I only use PG USP in my e-cannabis mix! 

I just tried the KangerTech Aerotank Mega and AeroTank Mini. 

I can say they have offered the best vaping experience I have ever had. Still just a first impression, but, they seem to be superior. Really have a medical quality feel to them. Especially the Mega on the SVD

KangerTech AeroTank Mega with 3.5 grams of oil. 


Left: KangerTech AeroTank Mega on SVD. Right: KangerTech AeroTank Mini on eGo C Twist 650 VV pen.


The AeroTank Mega and Mini comes with a glass tank and a full metal tank. Pretty cool!


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## skepler (Jun 7, 2014)

murdergrow said:


> The O.pen Vape cartridges(OrganaLabs and Bakked) contain co2 oil mixed with propylene glycol for consistency. Some DIY ecig juice bases(targeted to nic and thc users) conatin a mix of PG and different grades of PEG. there is nothing wrong with vaping PG and saying that it is only PEG used and not PG is misinformation


The O.pen Vape cartridges I've seen claim to use Poly-Ethylene Glycol, not Poly-Propylene Glycol. Someone said the PEG mixture is less likely to separate in time. I developed an allergy to PEG after three month usage in cannabis vaping, and switched to PG only. I don't need a long shelf life for my mixtures. Mostly I vape qwiso straight in an e-vaping device. I like the Seego V-Hit B, and their Glacier model.


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## moon47usaco (Jun 10, 2014)

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/177551-pg-vg-peg.html

Testing of VG at temperatures well above normal operating limits revealed no detectable Acrolein...
As stated here before there are several other articles and testing around the web to support this...

Note 280c = 536f thats really hot for any coil used properly and they did testing up to 300c...

As with PG you need to be sure you are using medical grade (as in USP for PG) and not just something listed as food grade if you intend to vape safely... =]


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## Lex Talionis (Jun 11, 2014)

Grow Goddess:

I've really been enjoying your threads and responses; your knowledge on this subject is amazing! Thank you.

I have been using a similar mixture as you with some purchased "Red Dragon Oil" and actually my normal vaping e-liquid with hints of caramel and vanilla in an Aspire Nautilus BDC (bottom dual coil) tank and have been loving it! Have you ever seen those? One thing I like about them, is that the bottom coil has around 4 tiny holes and it vapes extremely well. Their Vivi Nova-S tanks are also nice, but unfortunately have a plastic inner tube instead of a glass like the Nautilus tank has. The BDCs on the Novas have a convenient little ring on the inside of the atomizer, which really helps prevent leakage.

I've been wanting to make my own e-liquid since everything I've seen on the market is ridiculously expensive. I can't wait to experiment using your methods!


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## qwizoking (Jun 11, 2014)

I keep hearing about these things leaking?? 
Never happened to me


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## murdergrow (Jun 11, 2014)

Youre right, they are now using PEG. I checked out their web page and they had a whole spiel on PEG v PPG. I even checked my most recent containers the carts came in and they said PEG. Im wondering when they switched. And why. If you go back far enough you will see that at one point they used PG over PEG. If i happen to run across an original package for an Open cart I will upload a pic to show that they used PG before they switched to PEG. I bet they changed when they changed their packaging. or maybe when rec laws went into action. i dunno

How much qwiso can you load/how many hits can you get per load out of that seego? i still like the tanks over skillet type vapes, when trying to be discrete i wouldnt want to have to be loading my vape all night. id like how with enclosed tanks you can fill then vape for days. except for straight co2 oil i dont know how to load oil into a cart w/o having to cut it w something like PG to keep it fluid



skepler said:


> The O.pen Vape cartridges I've seen claim to use Poly-Ethylene Glycol, not Poly-Propylene Glycol. Someone said the PEG mixture is less likely to separate in time. I developed an allergy to PEG after three month usage in cannabis vaping, and switched to PG only. I don't need a long shelf life for my mixtures. Mostly I vape qwiso straight in an e-vaping device. I like the Seego V-Hit B, and their Glacier model.


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## murdergrow (Jun 11, 2014)

So i dont know what is wrong with me. I used the wayback machine to check out Open Vape's older website and as far as I can tell from their FAQ(as of 7/13) they have been using PEG since the beginning. I could have sworn they used PG at some point. Maybe it was the generic open cart i got from garden of the gods in denver a couple years ago that had the PG. I dunno im confused now.

Anyway when i need to make my oil more viscous for vaping out of a tank/clearomizer i use PG USp like GG


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## skepler (Jun 12, 2014)

murdergrow said:


> Youre right, they are now using PEG. I checked out their web page and they had a whole spiel on PEG v PPG. I even checked my most recent containers the carts came in and they said PEG. Im wondering when they switched. And why. If you go back far enough you will see that at one point they used PG over PEG. If i happen to run across an original package for an Open cart I will upload a pic to show that they used PG before they switched to PEG. I bet they changed when they changed their packaging. or maybe when rec laws went into action. i dunno
> 
> How much qwiso can you load/how many hits can you get per load out of that seego? i still like the tanks over skillet type vapes, when trying to be discrete i wouldnt want to have to be loading my vape all night. id like how with enclosed tanks you can fill then vape for days. except for straight co2 oil i dont know how to load oil into a cart w/o having to cut it w something like PG to keep it fluid


With the V-hit B one can get a good 4-6 hits, with the Glacier; 8-12 ridiculous hits, for under $20... I found the PEG in the O.pen Vape catridges last August, that was post-rec in CO, but no availability until this year.


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## murdergrow (Jun 13, 2014)

skepler said:


> With the V-hit B one can get a good 4-6 hits, with the Glacier; 8-12 ridiculous hits, for under $20... I found the PEG in the O.pen Vape catridges last August, that was post-rec in CO, but no availability until this year.


opens have been around for around 2yrs at least. i dont understand your comment on availability


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## skepler (Jun 13, 2014)

murdergrow said:


> opens have been around for around 2yrs at least. i dont understand your comment on availability


Simply that rec was legalized, but no legal outlet could sell it for a year.


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## murdergrow (Jun 13, 2014)

skepler said:


> Simply that rec was legalized, but no legal outlet could sell it for a year.


evergreen apothecaries on broadway in denver has been selling open vapes to rec customers since day 1. others too. most the places that were selling them before rec went into effect and now offer rec sales sell them to the public as well


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 14, 2014)

I wouldn't waste my money on an O-Pen. 

Going by the looks, it appears to be an outdated e-cigg. It basically drips to an automizer. 

I would prefer the KangerTech AeroTank Mini with a pen battery. It is capable of operating with a 1.5ohm coil on a standard 510 eGo pen battery. I prefer the variable voltage pen batteries, but sometimes I do like the small standard pen for stealth and convenience. 

The mini is high quality stainless steel, you can use the glass or stainless steel tank, has a 510 drip tip, eGo threads, and you can get 1.5 ohm and 2.0 ohm coils that are interchangeable with other KangerTech products. The tank is kind of heavy. It is really nice that it has adjustable air flow. With the adjustable airflow and VV battery you can tune it in just right for the best taste.

I have a very high tolerance and this is the first pen attachment that gets me as baked as the larger tank units on an APV vape. It is a little expensive, but you get a quality rig with cool options. 

Of course I only use PG USP medical/food grade with my QWISO oil. Typically my mix is about 30% PG USP and 70% concentrate. 

Left: SVD with KangerTech AeroTank Mega. Right: eGo C Twist with KangerTech AeroTank Mini
 

KangerTech AeroTank Mini - Standard size lighter


KangerTech AeroTank Mini with standard 650mAh 510 eGo battery


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## murdergrow (Jun 14, 2014)

GG i agree w you. the opens were a nice novelty when they were first released, but ecig technology def wasnt where it is today. I use a kanger protank3 mini for my nic juices and the atmos nano for my oils. both on a vv ego twist


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## skepler (Jun 18, 2014)

We had no recreational shops nor sales available on the western slope until well into 2014, although rec went legal
January 2013. I did not know Denver has had rec available for a year and a half now.


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## murdergrow (Jun 20, 2014)

skepler said:


> We had no recreational shops nor sales available on the western slope until well into 2014, although rec went legal
> January 2013. I did not know Denver has had rec available for a year and a half now.


amendment 64 passed on 11/6/12 but rec stores were not allowed to open until 1/1/14. i live on the western slope. there are rec shops in cb, durango, ridgeway, and telluride i think. otherwise youre right the western slope is pretty dry as far as stores go. im not sure when they were allowed to sell rec but i do know the stores in cb have been open as medical shops way before amendment 64 even passed.

rec shops can carry some very very nice product if you know where to look but always going to cost you an arm and a leg, and your first born


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## skepler (Jun 20, 2014)

I'm in the Roaring Fork Valley. The rec prices are through the roof. I kept my medical registration for that reason.


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## Scarlet (Jun 21, 2014)

Hello folks, just looking for some reliable information, and if what I am asking was already posted, please excuse me and maybe answer again for me. There are too many posts to read thru. My hubby is a medical user. We have made Ricks oil many times, and my husband uses it when we have it. I would like for my hubby to be able to use an e-cig system to get his medicine, but not sure what is the best way to do this. I would ask Rick personally, but he's out of the country at the moment, so that option is closed. I have checked into VG and PG, but I'm not a chemist, or even close to one, so most of that information is over my head. I would like to be able to make my own mix for the e-cig, for him to vape, but just need a recipe to mix up for him. Any serious answers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 21, 2014)

Scarlet said:


> Hello folks, just looking for some reliable information, and if what I am asking was already posted, please excuse me and maybe answer again for me. There are too many posts to read thru. My hubby is a medical user. We have made Ricks oil many times, and my husband uses it when we have it. I would like for my hubby to be able to use an e-cig system to get his medicine, but not sure what is the best way to do this. I would ask Rick personally, but he's out of the country at the moment, so that option is closed. I have checked into VG and PG, but I'm not a chemist, or even close to one, so most of that information is over my head. I would like to be able to make my own mix for the e-cig, for him to vape, but just need a recipe to mix up for him. Any serious answers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


I will do my best to help. 

Using the oil in an e-cigarette will not make up for ingesting the oil medicinally speaking. Ingesting the oil processes through the body differently than when smoking or vaporizing. 

If your husband is using the oil for minor health issues, like arthritis or back pain, or simply wishes to vaporize along with ingesting RSO, you don't have to be a chemist to make it work with e-ciggs. 

You can use RSO or nondecarbed concentrated cannabis oil like QWISO hash. The taste and buzz is a little different. You can taste decarbed oil vs. nondecarbed oil. A personal preference as to which is preferred. 

It is possible to ask Rick Simpson, but not sure he could help. He is on FaceBook. 

It is really easy to make e-cannabis oil. I kind of prefer to make mine with QWISO, but RSO has the same quality and uses the same process to convert to e-cannabis oil. 

Simply melt the concentrate with minimal heat, like with a coffee mug warmer, remove from heat, add in some PG USP medical/food grade here is a link to where you can get some https://highdesertvapes.com/products/USP-Kosher-Proplyene-Glycol-(PG).html and mix well. You may need to put it back onto the mug warmer, but not for too long, the PG USP will evaporate quickly. Suck up the solution into a syringe and inject into your favorite e-cigarette device and you are good to go. 

I recommend the eGo C Twist VV pen battery and the KangerTech AeroTank Mini. I also recommend a quality MOD/APV vape like the innokin SVD with the KangerTech AeroTank Mega. Best rigs I have used yet.


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## Scarlet (Jun 21, 2014)

Thank you for your help. I have just a few more questions if you don't mind answering them. Do you recommend the regular feeder, or the bottom feeder? Do the wicks gum up? If they do, what do you clean them with? My hubby ingests a small amount of RSO, or smokes it in a bong. We also collect crystal or THC in a kiff box, and I make cooking oil with it, and bake with it, substituting it for butter in banana bread. His concern is that it's not always convenient to smoke a joint, so that is why the interest in the concentrate for the e-cigs.
Thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated.


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## Grow Goddess (Jun 22, 2014)

Scarlet said:


> Thank you for your help. I have just a few more questions if you don't mind answering them. Do you recommend the regular feeder, or the bottom feeder? Do the wicks gum up? If they do, what do you clean them with? My hubby ingests a small amount of RSO, or smokes it in a bong. We also collect crystal or THC in a kiff box, and I make cooking oil with it, and bake with it, substituting it for butter in banana bread. His concern is that it's not always convenient to smoke a joint, so that is why the interest in the concentrate for the e-cigs.
> Thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated.


As far as what type of coils to use, that depends on the manufacturer really. There are good top fed units as well as good bottom fed units. I am a fan of the new KangerTech AeroTank products. The AeroTank Mini for a pen is the best I have seen so far, hands down. Same goes for the AeroTank Mega. The Mega is the best of them all as far as I am concerned. My favorite vaporizer to attach the Mega to is the innokin SVD, full kit that comes with 2 clearomizers. Just the SVD with no accessories I have found to be imitations. AT least the ones I came across. Always purchase from a reputable seller. I have links to all of the products I have tested and use in my blogs at MMMA. 

When using the top fed units, the wicks can and do gum up. I simply clean them with 100 proof vodka or 151 everclear. 

With my AeroTank Mega (bottom fed), one fill of 3.8 grams, I vape until the tank is empty, and I just throw out the coil. The oil is too valuable to put a half clean coil back in with a refill. The replacement coils are cheap enough anyway, just a little over $2.00 each. 

Recently I have been starting to experiment with reclaim. Cleaning the coils and parts and get as much reclaim as I can. Clean up the oil and see what it might be good for. At the least it will be good for topicals.


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## green_machine_two9er (Jul 1, 2014)

I have been playing with vegetable glycerin tincture for a while now. Yes you can smoke it but to truly work best in the ecig type products if you use a mix of Vegetable AND Propylene Glycerin. 
However while I testing for purposes of a smokable product I personally used sublingually works best For Migraines, Pain management, insomnia, and anxiety. 
My method
- 4 oz High Grade Buds, maybe some close trim as well, ground and decarbed.
- Roughly 2 cups vegi glyc..
- Crock pot
-mason jar
-cheesecloth or some filter material.

I put all my ground pot into MAson jar and fill with glycerin so it just covers are the weed. Screw the lid on very tight then I put into crock pit which is half full of water And place a towel in bottom so the jar doest comin into hard contact with ceramic . I turn on low for 3-5 days Removing jar to shake at least once a day. I then turn to warm setting for another week. I think it takes a while to extract into glycerin.
Then just strain through cheesecloth. 

"secret migraine cure"
Brush teeth and gums vigoursly. use 3-5 ml onto gums and try not to swallow just soak. ( eventually you will and the stuff taste like candy anyway)

I also put in my coffee


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## forever215 (Aug 23, 2014)

Sorry to start up a kind of dead post now but I do have a question. I am using 503 ejuce with no nicotine in it and according to there website the liquid is a mix of PG and VG which from what I have gathered from trying to read all 8 pages both should mix fine with the oil. But when I try to mix under low heat in a little glass dish on a mug warmer it does not mix at all. The oil will break down and look like it is mixing but then once it starts cooling all the oil gathers into little balls and separates. How do I get it to mix properly?


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## GrowinDad (Aug 24, 2014)

There is no perfect way and many trying to find one. My experience... anything with VG does not hold. PEG seems to work better from what I have heard, but have not tried yet.

I find if i use RSO and PG I get the best results with no extreme separation


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## green_machine_two9er (Aug 24, 2014)

forever215 said:


> Sorry to start up a kind of dead post now but I do have a question. I am using 503 ejuce with no nicotine in it and according to there website the liquid is a mix of PG and VG which from what I have gathered from trying to read all 8 pages both should mix fine with the oil. But when I try to mix under low heat in a little glass dish on a mug warmer it does not mix at all. The oil will break down and look like it is mixing but then once it starts cooling all the oil gathers into little balls and separates. How do I get it to mix properly?


i use a sealable crock pot half full of water, VG only poured over product in mason jar. put on low heat for 35 days shaking jar once a day. i only add the PG before use in e cigs. i have had a jar of VG tincture sitting around for 3 months and still perfect consistancy and has not seperated one bit. works great as sublingual in that form or can must add some PG and have great stuff for vapor pen.
good luck, also just a thought but that 503 e juice i have never heard of, maybe it has something else in it? i would go wtih food grade Vegetabel gylcerim, avail at health food stores or online and get the PG seperate.


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## forever215 (Aug 24, 2014)

Thanks yeah the 503 is a local dealer out here in nor-cal and I can order straight VG or PG flavored or unflavored from him. When you are making the VG your using plant matter right not the RSO? I am using what I before reading this and a couple other things as ISO oil but I have heard that's not the right term? I just want to be able to smoke the oil I have on the go easily lol I guess I will have to do different after this croptober to make it e cig worthy. I am a prop 215 patient and I'm not concerned with the smell or anything else just the ease of use on the go not having to fill the little cup with oil every time I have to take a hit.


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## olscratchy (Sep 20, 2014)

I dont think this has been asked, Can bubble hash-cold water extraction be used? If so how? 
I have just started vaping to help quit smoking & have been enjoying it, I am upgrading to an iStick by eleaf with dual coil kanger tanks. They just released a Turbo model with 2 dual coil atomizers, 4 coils, looking forward to trying that one. any advice on voltage,wattage settings & ohms? Thanks for this thread!!


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## maybeachemist (Dec 17, 2014)

Ok so i registered here because someone recommended isopropyl alcohol.
this is a terrible idea- the stuff is extremely toxic to your liver. (to give credit where it's due the idea to decarb at way lower temperatures due to oven temp fluctuations is dead on)

if you want to make green dragon or any alcohol based thc extract use ethanol, some grain alcohol stuff (eg everclear). the reason ethanol works at all is because it's slightly longer (CH3CH2OH) and has fewer oxygens than H20, therefore preventing hydrogen bonds from forming with other polar things in the mixture. hence avoid any dilution of h20 possible (95% or better), esp as the boiling point is much higher than ETOH. Also, using something which doesn't have a flame at all to heat might allow you to drive the shit out of the reaction and concentrate the product quite well 

second. THC doesn't 'bind' to your pg/vg. thc is a lipid, so you need some sort of lipid-type solvent. so you want something ideally with a lot of carbons and not too many nitrogens and oxygens on it. ideally you want something like butane which is why BHO extraction works so well. your pg/vg mixture is working as a solvent. i can't explain in chemical terms why this seems this way (because VG and PG are isomers) but vg is more 'oily' so at least in theory should work better as a solvent. we need some experimentation here. think of this as making tea with something which is not water-soluble.

aside: if pg is really polyethylene glycol (which is the opposite of what it says on my e liquid in front of me) it would make a terrible solvent for THC due to the amount of oxygens in it- would probably be quite polar.

third. when decarboxylating THC, lechatlier's principle applies- the product of the reaction includes water. so you can safely decarboxylate in any situation where water will be leaving your mixture- which will always occur above the BP of water. I see no reason why 9 minutes at 190F won't work . THC decarboxylates spontaneously as it dries out over time due to the same reason.

just like any reaction, boiling for a longer period of time will give you better results as you drive the reaction forward. i see no reason not to boil with a thermometer for as long as possible at some temperature well below the combustion of THC.

aside no 2: if you do get separation, the THC will be in the less dense layer (iirc on top)/the one which is more 'oily' and less water like. separation in this sense is a good thing, just remove that layer


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## Fadedawg (Dec 18, 2014)

olscratchy said:


> I dont think this has been asked, Can bubble hash-cold water extraction be used? If so how?
> I have just started vaping to help quit smoking & have been enjoying it, I am upgrading to an iStick by eleaf with dual coil kanger tanks. They just released a Turbo model with 2 dual coil atomizers, 4 coils, looking forward to trying that one. any advice on voltage,wattage settings & ohms? Thanks for this thread!!


We routinely extract kif and bubble in a Terpenator using a 1 1/2 X 6" column on a Mk III. I typically use four 10 second floods and change the pot after every column. Here is what it looks like when no heat is used on the lower pot during recovery, except an occasional de-ice.


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## TieDyedTransplant (Dec 20, 2014)

Fadedawg said:


> We routinely extract kif and bubble in a Terpenator using a 1 1/2 X 6" column on a Mk III. I typically use four 10 second floods and change the pot after every column. Here is what it looks like when no heat is used on the lower pot during recovery, except an occasional de-ice.



What kind of yield are you getting with the 6" column GW? I am guessing it holds about 120g of kif. 

I have been running my mk iii since August and freaking love it! 

Thanks for all your help and info brother.


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## hoova (Dec 30, 2014)

green_machine_two9er said:


> I have been playing with vegetable glycerin tincture for a while now. Yes you can smoke it but to truly work best in the ecig type products if you use a mix of Vegetable AND Propylene Glycerin.
> However while I testing for purposes of a smokable product I personally used sublingually works best For Migraines, Pain management, insomnia, and anxiety.
> My method
> - 4 oz High Grade Buds, maybe some close trim as well, ground and decarbed.
> ...


is this tincture able to be vaped?


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## hoova (Dec 30, 2014)

I've been getting this stuff from the dispensary called liquid sunshine. I suspected it to be shatter mixed with vg so I attempted to make some. I heated the vg up first to around 140 then added the shatter. the shatter just turned into a gooey ball and wrapped around anything I mixed it with and seperated from the start. how do I get wax and vg to mix?


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## skepler (Dec 30, 2014)

hoova said:


> I've been getting this stuff from the dispensary called liquid sunshine. I suspected it to be shatter mixed with vg so I attempted to make some. I heated the vg up first to around 140 then added the shatter. the shatter just turned into a gooey ball and wrapped around anything I mixed it with and seperated from the start. how do I get wax and vg to mix?


VG and wax or shatter don't mix. PEG or PG do mix with a gentle heating. I find 1:1 seems to be a good ratio with PG. The PEG has a flavor many don't like.


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## hoova (Dec 30, 2014)

yeah i learned it doesnt mix the hard way by wasting a bunch. I dont know how people on other forums got it to mix though. The stuff i get for my vape from the dispensary is like a golden brown color and real thick. Like i can hold the stuff upside down and it takes awhile before it even moves. What do you suspect this to be? and if you know do you know how i could make it? also i read somewhere that someone mixed green dragon with VG and vaped it. Is this possible? Is it safe to vape alcohol?


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## skepler (Dec 31, 2014)

Y


hoova said:


> yeah i learned it doesnt mix the hard way by wasting a bunch. I dont know how people on other forums got it to mix though. The stuff i get for my vape from the dispensary is like a golden brown color and real thick. Like i can hold the stuff upside down and it takes awhile before it even moves. What do you suspect this to be? and if you know do you know how i could make it? also i read somewhere that someone mixed green dragon with VG and vaped it. Is this possible? Is it safe to vape alcohol?


You can get Kosher food grade PG from High Desert Vapes, https://highdesertvapes.com/
It mixes well 1:1 with wax/shatter at 120-140°, makes a viscous liquid, color depends on how fresh the starting material was. Goes yellow to brown over time. Don't vape any alcohol unless its from liquor, food grade ethanol.


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## hoova (Dec 31, 2014)

so green dragon (everclear) can be vaped?


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## GrowinDad (Jan 2, 2015)

No! You would not want to vape straight green dragon. The idea with ethanol is to use it for the extraction (QWET) that you can then mix into PG. But because ethanol is no toxic, a 100% purge is less essential.

Green dragon is a tincture to be taken orally.


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## srichard722 (Jan 2, 2015)

sorry too stoned to read all 9 pages to see if any one has saw this video...im going to try this after my harvest


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## GrowinDad (Jan 2, 2015)

Don't bother. Shit will not be strong enough. A tincture like that has too little weed in too much VG to vape. Do the math...


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## jondamon (Jan 3, 2015)

srichard722 said:


> sorry too stoned to read all 9 pages to see if any one has saw this video...im going to try this after my harvest



Made it with 10g of buds. 

Wish I never made it! 

QWISO/QWET/WINTERIZED BHO into either straight PG or PEG. 


J


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## srichard722 (Jan 3, 2015)

jondamon said:


> Made it with 10g of buds.
> 
> Wish I never made it!
> 
> ...


well thank you for testing it...bummer i knew it sounded to easy to be true....ill just make some good ole hash after harvest i guess


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