# PF tek - Shotgun Terrarium - GT & Cambodians Cubensis



## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 22, 2010)

finally got the time to make a journal thread about my 2010-2011 cubensis cultivation.

i knocked up 12 half pint jars (no lip) on Nov. 7th around 2 p.m.
with golden teacher spores. i got the spores from microtech.
i will post link later. 
(i still have a 12 cc cambodian syringe which i will knock up 12 more jars in the next day or two.)
i bought two 12 cc syringes (one:GT and other: Cambodian cubensis) about 30 bucks for both syringes including shipping and handling.


today is day 15 into incubation after inoculation.


there is no signs signs of contamination in any of the 12 jars (GT).
only thing is that two of the jars only got 2 inoculation points set so it will take a lot longer to colonize (hope they dont contam.) =/

they are incubating in a closest thats never really used.
the temp is at 75-76 degrees F.
everything looks awesome and will expect to be fruiting within the next week or two.
im guessing itll be around Dec. 1st.

here are some pictures of colonization...
1st picture----Day 4
2nd Picture-----Day 6
3rd Picture------Day 10

i will post most images in the next day or so.


*please post any critiques, comments, thoughts, suggestions..etc.*

thank you all for checking it out!!!

-BBQ


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## 420God (Nov 22, 2010)

Nice! I'm doing Pink Buffalo from micro-supply and I have a syringe of Golden Teacher I'm doing next.

Looks like it's going well, good luck!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 22, 2010)

hell yeah bruv and thank you!!!.

im surprised how fast the golden teachers are colonizing in 76 degrees.
i cant wait to see how fast the cambodians are (seeing how they are the 2nd fastest colonizing cube)
but it probably wont be much a difference.

good luck to you as well


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## glShemp (Nov 22, 2010)

Good luck with your grow!


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## dankillerbs (Nov 22, 2010)

Arent those pint jars bro? Half pints are the shorter jars I believe... Maybe im wrong. Those jars will work ok but if you can snag some of the shorter wide mouths they will colonize faster and have just as good fruiting results. Looks to be healthy myc though! So your gonna be using a shotgun terrarium to fruit these then, right? Where are you going to keep it? Looks good, keep the updates and pic coming. Cheers!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 22, 2010)

nah man.
those are half pints (wide mouth) jars.

and yes, i will be fruiting in a shotgun terrarium. (6 cakes per each plastic tote)

and i havnt exactly decided where to fruit them.
since i am incubating at 76 degrees F. what should i have my terrarium at?
would 76 still work or do i need to drop the temperature?


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## DarthD3vl (Nov 22, 2010)

tempature drop is not needed for cubes there tropical


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## dankillerbs (Nov 22, 2010)

Ah, guess I've never seen half pint jars that tall and narrow... I've only seen the short wide ones... Maybe it's a brand I haven't seen. So what kind of light are you gonna use?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 22, 2010)

im gunna use a 26 watt Daylight 6500K CFL Twist ENERGY STAR bulb with clamp light on a cheap timer at 12 hours on and 12 hours off.

thatd not even be 15 bucks at home depot


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 24, 2010)

today is Day 17 into incubation.
everything is looking awesome!!!

i think ill be birthing all cakes this time next week, maybe sooner =]

here is an image i took last night on Day 16.

p.s. i sterilized 12 jars last night but 4 of the jars bottoms cracked due to me not using a layer of tin foil above the jar lids to elivate the jars. and it the water level may have been too high (i didnt use a pressure cooker) 
HOWEVER, 8 of them made it fine.

so ill be knocking up 8 jars tonight with some Cambodian spores. (starting a Sea of Green....mushroom style)
=]


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## 420God (Nov 24, 2010)

Looking good! I've been waiting weeks on mine, real slow going, used the full pint.

You'll probably have mushies before me.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 24, 2010)

glShemp said:


> Good luck with your grow!


thank you sir!!!

stay tuned...


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 24, 2010)

420God said:


> Looking good! I've been waiting weeks on mine, real slow going, used the full pint.
> 
> You'll probably have mushies before me.


next time use half pints. unless you dont roll that way. 

may i ask why you decided to use a full pint instead of half?
just curious. =]

more time = more yield??


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## 420God (Nov 24, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> next time use half pints. unless you dont roll that way.
> 
> may i ask why you decided to use a full pint instead of half?
> just curious. =]
> ...


 They were the first ones I saw and figured what the hell.

I bought the half pints for my next syringe, lol.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 24, 2010)

420God said:


> They were the first ones I saw and figured what the hell.
> 
> I bought the half pints for my next syringe, lol.


good sir!!!
=]

hehe all of us stoners miss or screw up at least one step.

i forgot to put tape over the inoculation holes after knocking up the jars.
they are fine. no contaminates. =]


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## sonar (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm actually getting ready to start a project like this myself as soon as I get some time. Maybe over the holiday. I have some Ecuador I heard they are pretty fast. Although from what I gather "strains" are nothing like cannabis with the variety.

I guess there are a few ways to do it, but you guys put tape over the inoculation holes after knocking up the jars? I was just going to put the foil back over the top.

Oh any of you guys looking for jars I found them online here. I love Ace hardware they will get you pretty much anything you want and you get it delivered with their regular shipments so you don't have to pay shipping.


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## skolar182 (Nov 24, 2010)

Those are actually half pint (not wide mouth). I've grown in both the wide mouth and the tall jar, and both yielded about the same. I just noticed that birthing the cake from the tall jar was a little more difficult. I grew B+ and if I remember correctly I got about 3 ounces dried from 12 cakes, and they were awesome . I have also tried to grow in the full pint and had less luck... I think the more substrate you use, the more it packs down and hurts your results. Stick to half pints unless you are growing on rye-berries. Good luck!


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## skolar182 (Nov 24, 2010)

sonar said:


> Although from what I gather "strains" are nothing like cannabis with the variety.


This is very true. A cubensis is a cubensis, is a cubensis. The only way they differ is in size, shape, colonization time, and spore count. They are the weakest of the Psilocybe genus but my favorite because it's easiest to dose and easiest to grow by far. 3.5g of Cubensis is about as strong as 1g Psilocybe azurescens because the azurescens contain so much more Psilocybin.

If you're looking for more potent, you'll need a different species.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 24, 2010)

skolar is correct ^^^^^^

i really want to cultivate Cyanesceans.

i havnt cased or spawned to bigger substrate yet so i gotta try some bulk methods before even thinking about trying to grow these amazing, white, blue beauties.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 24, 2010)

sonar said:


> but you guys put tape over the inoculation holes after knocking up the jars? I was just going to put the foil back over the top.


that works too


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## skolar182 (Nov 24, 2010)

I tried a bulk grow on rye berries and it was much more unforgiving... half of my jars had contamination, but the ones that didn't turned out fine. If I ever grow again it'll be PF Tek again just because of how easy it was. On my 3rd time through, I purposely used no gloves and no sterilization chamber and I still have a 100% turnout. (NOT RECOMMENDED, I consider myself lucky and live in an overly clean house). 

If I have any recommendation for you, it's go on amazon.com and buy some 5ml or 10ml syringes. (5) B+ caps gave me (10) syringes of beautiful purple spore solution!   And my 2nd turnout was HUGE.

Here's one of the monsters:


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## skolar182 (Nov 24, 2010)

One more thing... you don't need anything more than a standard 60 watt incandescent light to trigger pinning. I had my light on a timer of 2 hours on and 22 hours off, and that is really more than necessary. Psilocybin degrades quickly with high heat or lots of light... so the less light the better bro! Just tryin' to save you some electricity and potency


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## dankillerbs (Nov 24, 2010)

FYI heatlessBBQ, you did GOOD by NOT taping up your innoc holes... The purpose of the DRY vermiculite layer under the lid is to stop contams from entering the jar. It works in the same way as other filters, and colonization would probably be SLOWER with tape over the holes... aslo, the foil comes OFF too... that is simply so the water that condenses on the lid of the pot you sterilize your jars in doesnt drip into your jars, which would get your DRY layer wet and make them prone to contam. So keep the foil off after innoc and dont use tape either, just like your doing now with excelent results! Cheers mate!


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## dankillerbs (Nov 24, 2010)

Also, stick with 12on 12off with your lights. A 26 watt floro on 12 hours a day wont do much to your electric bill but it will be stellar for pinsets! Just because they will pin with short exposure to light doesnt mean it will give you the best pinset and best flushes... All the pros recommend 12 on 12 off after years of testing and experimenting so I think thats probably the way to go!


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## skolar182 (Nov 24, 2010)

This is one of the biggest misconceptions with cubes. http://www.shroomery.org/5131/What-is-the-best-light-source-to-use

Mushrooms are not plants so they do not require a significant amount of light so initiate pinning. Light is only required to start the pinning process, once it's begun they do not need any more light. Experts and pros say the contrary of what you're saying.

Granted, it will only save you dollars on your electricity bill but it is what it is. I think if you're doing more than 4 hours of light a day that's too much.

If you want all the accurate answers go to www.shroomery.org. It helped me through lots of grows.


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## dankillerbs (Nov 24, 2010)

I always thought the misconception is that they DONT need much light to grow...? That what I always hear people saying, which is why you see people claiming that christmas lights and short duration light cycles work so well... Anyways, I am by no means saying your wrong, but I also get all my info from the shroomery... Read this....

"_Contrary to outdated and incorrect information from ten years ago repeated above, mushrooms do benefit from very bright light. Even direct sunlight for a few minutes per day will help the mycelium to produce larger, thicker, meatier and heavier fruits.

While it's true that mycelium doesn't use light the way plants do, they do use it, and it's not to tell them it's time to pin. Mycelium derives energy from light. Much is to be gained by keeping your colonizing mycelium on the same light schedule from spore germination to harvest. Mycelium has circadian rhythms just like mammals, and a day/night routine of light and temperature variation provides the best conditions for growth and large harvests."
RR _


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## 420God (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm starting to get confused. I just wrapped my tub with christmas lights, will that work and for how many hours?


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## dankillerbs (Nov 24, 2010)

Also, that link you posted had nothing to do with testing different lighting schedules... He was testing different light sources and the preformance from each, not different lighting schedules... 

Anyways, weak lights like christmas lights and short light schedules can get you flushes, granted you are providing the more important pinning triggers such as FAE, but it doesnt mean it will give you the best flushes possible... Most people are fine with doing just what works, instead of doing what has been proven to work better.

Read this, another quote from RR about pinning triggers...
"I've found the brightest light stimulates more pins. You need to look at pinning triggers like the instruments in a band. One instrument can be slightly off, and the band still plays the song. Often one instrument can be taken away and the music still sounds ok. However, if all are working together, it's awesome."

...and he is talking about the bightest light in the 6500k spectrum by the way.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 24, 2010)

dankillerbs said:


> Read this, another quote from RR about pinning triggers...
> "I've found the brightest light stimulates more pins. You need to look at pinning triggers like the instruments in a band. One instrument can be slightly off, and the band still plays the song. Often one instrument can be taken away and the music still sounds ok. However, if all are working together, it's awesome."
> 
> ...and he is talking about the bightest light in the 6500k spectrum by the way.





dankillerbs said:


> "_Contrary to outdated and incorrect information from ten years ago repeated above, mushrooms do benefit from very bright light. Even direct sunlight for a few minutes per day will help the mycelium to produce larger, thicker, meatier and heavier fruits.
> 
> While it's true that mycelium doesn't use light the way plants do, they do use it, and it's not to tell them it's time to pin. Mycelium derives energy from light. Much is to be gained by keeping your colonizing mycelium on the same light schedule from spore germination to harvest. Mycelium has circadian rhythms just like mammals, and a day/night routine of light and temperature variation provides the best conditions for growth and large harvests."
> RR _


very very nice info.

I LIKE!

thank you mr. D!

*so yes, im going to stick with the 26 watt daylight 6500k CFL
@ at 12 hours on and a 12 hours off*


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 24, 2010)

yo mr. dankillerbs!!!

what size drill bit should i use on my terrarium (plastic tote)???
and how far apart should the holes be drilled on each side, bottom, and top of box?

keep in mind, im going to be using a few terrariums that fit 6 cakes each.
the plastic totes are already elevated a few inches off the ground AND fit 6 cakes perfectly...
so i decided these will do! =]

and i want to make sure i get the best pinset i possibly can...
i know cubensis are tropical and cold shock is not necessary. and i also know cubez grow in almost any temp.
but since i am incubating at 75-76 degrees F...
where should i keep my temp. when i want to initiate the best pinset possible???


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 24, 2010)

skolar182 said:


> Psilocybin degrades quickly with high heat or lots of light.


this is very true but not when they are initiating pinset or growing my bruv.
you want to keep your *DRIED* mushies out of heat, light, and air(oxygen)
cuz like said above....it will degrade the potency.... QUICKLY.


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## dankillerbs (Nov 24, 2010)

Make your holes with a 1/4" drill bit, and space them about 3 inches apart on every side of the tub. Then fill with 4" of wet drained perlite. Then just mist and fan your terrarium at least 3 times daily or more if you can. 

Also, temp drop is not a pinning trigger for tropical species, so you dont need to drop the temp... also dont worry if the light raises your temp a few degrees either because they will be fine in the high, low, or mid 70's.

So where are the totes gonna be chillin?


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## StonerReekingHavok (Nov 24, 2010)

you say you can fan it up to 3 times a day or more...?

how much more can be fanned? and how much is too much?
obviously if its fanned more itll need to be sprayed more but moderately. correct?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Nov 28, 2010)

just knocked up 8 jars last night with cambodian spores.

the 12 golden teachers are lookin' better and better.
will be birthing next week.

should i dunk and roll? or just dunk?


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## dankillerbs (Nov 28, 2010)

Dunk and roll...you can bake your verm for about 15 min at 300deg to be safe before you roll. Then roll in verm, toss in terrarium lit by 12/12 lighting, wait 30 min after verm roll and then mist cakes good and the verm will stick nicely. Continue to mist and fan regularly. Keep in mind it's recomended that you leave cakes in the jar for 5-7 days after they appear fully colonized for the mycellium to consolidate it's hold on the substrate. They won't fruit within that week anyways if you birthed them immediately, so it's best to leave them in the jar for that time so you can hit em with all the pinning triggers at the same time once they are actually ready to fruit.. This hobby will sure teach you patience.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 1, 2010)

yes. i agree.
patience comes with growing anything.
specially cannabis....but its worth it.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 1, 2010)

*UPDATE!!*

today is day 24 into incubation with the golden teachers.
and it is day 4 into incubation with the cambodians.

images listed are from last night.
GT to the left.
Cambos to the right.

golden teachers most def. take a while to colonize.

next update will for sure be birthing.

anyone got anymore extra tips before i buy my terrariums?
and where can a get the finest misting sprayer available??

thanks all.

p.s. sorry for the poor lightening in one of the images. they are incubating in a closet.  haha

-BBQ


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## purple stanky (Dec 1, 2010)

hell yeah heatless lookin good.
birthing is not far off from what i can see. =)


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## cartman (Dec 1, 2010)

Gonna be watching this thread closely and taking notes from heartless and dankiller. Just got my B+ and Cambodian syringes from ralphs the other day. Gonna noc em up early january.


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## purple stanky (Dec 1, 2010)

hes not heartless hes a pretty chill guy hahaha but he is a HEATlessBBQ


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 2, 2010)

purple stanky said:


> hes not heartless hes a pretty chill guy hahaha but he is a HEATlessBBQ


i appreciate your kind humor!
=]

funny actually....i used to use HeatlessBBQ as my gamer tag on xbox live.

so many people used to call me HeartlessBBQ while blasting people away on halo 2.
haha


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## purple stanky (Dec 2, 2010)

hahahah thats funny shit you play black ops? =)


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 2, 2010)

well at my old apartment i got broken into and my xbox got jacked. =[
so no more xbox but my good friend has a PS3.
thinking about buying black ops for him for christmas. cuz he is a BIG nazi zombie fan.
i enjoy it too.

have any of your played assassins creed: brotherhood?
looks dope as fuck. multiplayer and online.

bet it will be awesome to play that shit on these golden teachers =]


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## sonar (Dec 2, 2010)

So microtech (micro-supply.com) is a legit company? Just checking them out now the are much cheaper than spore works. I paid like $25 for a 10cc syringe with shipping from spore works. Don't mind paying it for a quality product, but if I could find them cheaper for next time I would.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 2, 2010)

sonar said:


> So microtech (micro-supply.com) is a legit company? Just checking them out now the are much cheaper than spore works. I paid like $25 for a 10cc syringe with shipping from spore works. Don't mind paying it for a quality product, but if I could find them cheaper for next time I would.


spores are spores. haha

they are MUCH cheaper and instead of a 10cc syringe. its 12ccs.
so you can knock up 12 half pint jars instead of 10. *two thumbs up*

and who could beat 10 bones a syringe? and only 5 bucks shipping & handling for as many syringes you can buy.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 2, 2010)

dankillerbs said:


> FYI heatlessBBQ, you did GOOD by NOT taping up your innoc holes... The purpose of the DRY vermiculite layer under the lid is to stop contams from entering the jar. It works in the same way as other filters, and colonization would probably be SLOWER with tape over the holes... aslo, the foil comes OFF too... that is simply so the water that condenses on the lid of the pot you sterilize your jars in doesnt drip into your jars, which would get your DRY layer wet and make them prone to contam. So keep the foil off after innoc and dont use tape either, just like your doing now with excelent results! Cheers mate!


this is very important and true fact.
i bet my jars would have colonized fasted if i took off the tape sooner.
you can really tell it makes it colonize faster.



dankillerbs said:


> Also, stick with 12on 12off with your lights. A 26 watt floro on 12 hours a day wont do much to your electric bill but it will be stellar for pinsets! Just because they will pin with short exposure to light doesnt mean it will give you the best pinset and best flushes... All the pros recommend 12 on 12 off after years of testing and experimenting so I think thats probably the way to go!


this is also a very important and good fact. =]


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## cartman (Dec 2, 2010)

purple stanky said:


> hes not heartless hes a pretty chill guy hahaha but he is a HEATlessBBQ


ROFL I've always read his username as heartlessBBQ for some strange reason even though it never made sense lol. If you wouldnt have said anything, I'd be calling him that till somebody DID say something. sorry heatless. peace


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## dankillerbs (Dec 4, 2010)

anyone got anymore extra tips before i buy my terrariums?
and where can a get the finest misting sprayer available??

Something clear, with a clear lid also, that is around 20inches deep to hold 5 inches of perlite, your cake, and leave space for your fruits to grow. And don't stress on the finest mist possible, any cheap spray bottle with a mist will do... Just mist from above, outside your tote and let the mist fall into the tub onto the cakes... With a proper built shotgun terrarium and fanning for a minute after misting you won't have problems with stagnent water sitting on the surface because it will dry off on the surface as it should. It's when you don't have proper FAE that you have problems because the water dosent evaporate and leaves slimy stunted fruits, mutans, and aborts. After all, they do get rained on in nature, and that's big droplets were talking about... They just have enough fresh air(fanning, proper shotgun terrarium) to dry out between rainfall(misting).


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 4, 2010)

dankillerbs said:


> anyone got anymore extra tips before i buy my terrariums?
> and where can a get the finest misting sprayer available??
> 
> Something clear, with a clear lid also, that is around 20inches deep to hold 5 inches of perlite, your cake, and leave space for your fruits to grow. And don't stress on the finest mist possible, any cheap spray bottle with a mist will do... Just mist from above, outside your tote and let the mist fall into the tub onto the cakes... With a proper built shotgun terrarium and fanning for a minute after misting you won't have problems with stagnent water sitting on the surface because it will dry off on the surface as it should. It's when you don't have proper FAE that you have problems because the water dosent evaporate and leaves slimy stunted fruits, mutans, and aborts. After all, they do get rained on in nature, and that's big droplets were talking about... They just have enough fresh air(fanning, proper shotgun terrarium) to dry out between rainfall(misting).


makes perfect sense =]

im just putting myself in a mushroom's shoes and think how they grow in nature.
its nature!
its science!
it makes sense!!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 4, 2010)

i am FOR SURE going to dunk when i birth these fuckers.

but lately im not sure about rolling.
ive seen people get GREAT results without rolling the whole cake in verm.
but i have seen some use only a layer on top of the cake. (the bottom also has verm from incubation, obviously)


what should i do for best results??
1. just dunk and put em into the terrarium, with no casing layer (verm)
2. put a layer of verm onto top side of cake?
or
3. dunk and roll whole cake in verm

what do you think?


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## dankillerbs (Dec 4, 2010)

Its a good proven method but it is optional... Normally cubensis dont benifit from a casing layer, but since BRF cakes are such a small substrate the extra moisture from the verm layer helps keep moisture in the cakes while allowing a nice microclimate on the cakes surface thats constantly getting moistened(misting) and drying out(fanning). If you do roll though you only do it after the initial dunk, and not after future dunks to rehydrate the cakes. Bake your verm at 300deg for 15 min, rinse your cake well after dunk, then roll in the verm... after, wait 30 minutes then spray heavily to moisten all the verm, that way it all sticks nicely.... also getting the verm nice and moist after rolling will prevent the verm from sucking moisture out of the cakes. Its real simple though and a good method.


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## DarthD3vl (Dec 4, 2010)

dankillerbs said:


> Its a good proven method but it is optional... Normally cubensis dont benifit from a casing layer, but since BRF cakes are such a small substrate the extra moisture from the verm layer helps keep moisture in the cakes while allowing a nice microclimate on the cakes surface thats constantly getting moistened(misting) and drying out(fanning). *If you do roll though you only do it after the initial dunk, and not after future dunks to rehydrate the cakes*. Bake your verm at 300deg for 15 min, rinse your cake well after dunk, then roll in the verm... after, wait 30 minutes then spray heavily to moisten all the verm, that way it all sticks nicely.... also getting the verm nice and moist after rolling will prevent the verm from sucking moisture out of the cakes. Its real simple though and a good method.


why? I re-roll after every dunk all the way up to 8th flush, would I get more flushes if I didn't do that??? I've been curious about that but cant find any deffinitive answers on shroomery,shroom talk or any of the others.. some people say they get larger and more flushes with some say they get those results with out... verm is long drive to get though if I can use less I might start...


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 6, 2010)

i think i may try it without the first time around with the golden teachers.

ill try the roll with the cambodians.


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## dankillerbs (Dec 6, 2010)

Well the verm sticks throughout the flushes so the first roll is all that's needed and that way your not putting more wet verm over verm that has already been exposed to bad spores in the air, which could lead to contamination... 8 flushes eh? Ive heard under optimal conditions they produce 80% of total harvest in the first 2 flushes... How long does 8 flushes take? May be better to have fresh cakes ready to fruit after 3rd or 4th flush in my opinion.


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## DarthD3vl (Dec 6, 2010)

dankillerbs said:


> Well the verm sticks throughout the flushes so the first roll is all that's needed and that way your not putting more wet verm over verm that has already been exposed to bad spores in the air, which could lead to contamination... 8 flushes eh? Ive heard under optimal conditions they produce 80% of total harvest in the first 2 flushes... How long does 8 flushes take? May be better to have fresh cakes ready to fruit after 3rd or 4th flush in my opinion.


I got the most weight in the 2nd and 3rd flush from my last cakes, but average 22ish grams per cake after 8 flushes, half of that coming _after_ the 4th flush. the last two flushes are only one or two shrooms but the largest ones of the hole run... also I rub most of the old verm off and when I pick the shrooms it takes large chunks out of the verm sometimes, so I think i'll have to keep re-rolling even if just to fill in holes from picked shrooms, But I use sterilized verm when I re-roll just like when I roll the first time to aviod contam, you can see I use alot of verm lol 

And I dont know if this may be part of the reason I get so much from my cakes, but my recipie is only half brown rice flour, half ground up wild bird seed... thinking maybe extra nutrients supplied by the wbs flour... also my cakes never contam just stop producing... (knock on wood)


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 7, 2010)

four of the jars are completely colonized, while 4 others right behind, and 4 more that are kind of slow but almost there.

last night i noticed quite a few pinheads pushing up against the glass on two of the jars. =D
whooop!!!!

but i am wondering, is it okay if i birth 4 cakes, 4 a few days later, and the last 4 a week later?
it looks like its about 4-6 days between each birthing (if i birthed 4 jars at a time)

im wondering this because of initiating pinset...
will this screw anything up if i put 4 cakes at a time into the fruiting chamber???

im not being impatient. i just think if i see pinheads already, i need to birth those cakes relatively quick, correct?

any help would be awesome!!!
+++++rep


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## mojoganjaman (Dec 7, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> four of the jars are completely colonized, while 4 others right behind, and 4 more that are kind of slow but almost there.
> 
> last night i noticed quite a few pinheads pushing up against the glass on two of the jars. =D
> whooop!!!!
> ...


I'd birth them when they are ready...I have 3 different flushing grows in my GH...it just keeps you bizzy as they fruit and get dunked at different times...hth


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 7, 2010)

thats what i was thinking.

i am curious because of making sure ALL cakes got the same pinset.

but dont the conditions of fruiting AND pinning stay the same??
such as lighting, lighting cycle, Fresh Air Exchange, temp, and Relative Humidity????

if this is true, wouldn't it NOT matter if different cakes were put into the SAME terrarium for pinset initiation at different times????


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 7, 2010)

bump.

any takers??


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## purple stanky (Dec 7, 2010)

sounds like it would work just fine to me.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 7, 2010)

thanks for the input purps!!!

i personally think it'll be fine as well.
so tonight or tomorrow im going to birth 4-8 cakes...

ill post as soon as i do.

stay up to date!!!
=]


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## purple stanky (Dec 7, 2010)

i will have to for sure =)

just subbed there ya go hahaha


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## cartman (Dec 7, 2010)

Good stuff HEATLESS. Gonna be noccing up 10 jars with B+ tonite. Take some pics I wanna see those suckers crowning lol.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 7, 2010)

cartman said:


> Good stuff HEATLESS. Gonna be noccing up 10 jars with B+ tonite. Take some pics I wanna see those suckers crowning lol.


dont you worry.
i will

=]]]]]

i kinda wish i was growing B+ now...
they look like they grow so cool


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 7, 2010)

todays tasks have been complete!!!

i got my clamp light with 26 watt daylight 6500kalvin CFL and timer today!!!!!!
drilled holes into my terrarium. im using a plastic tote that'll fit 12 cakes comfortably.
i used a 1/4" drill bit and drilled holes 3 inches apart.
so that makes 8 holes by 6 holes on 4 sides including top and bottom. and 5 holes by 6 holes on two of the smaller side panels.

all i gotta do tomorrow is buy my spray bottle, big bag of perlite and a tray to catch some remaining water/moisture from terrarium.

im going to elevate the terrarium with 2by4 blocks or bricks and set those on the tray.

i have decided im going to keep the terrarium in a closet and the temperature is 72-74 degrees F
the lamp may slightly raise the temp. but doubt it, CFLs are not hot at all.


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## dankillerbs (Dec 8, 2010)

Hey Heatless, stoked on your progress! One thing to consider is a closed closet doesnt get much fresh air, its mostly stale air so your should air out your closet regularly also. Ive done monotubs in a closet but its a common practice with monotubs to have a small fan circulating air in the room, so that helps with air circulation in a closet with monos... problem is your not recomended to have a fan with a shotgun chamber because it messes up the natural process of how it works... So... I advise you to either leave your closet door open all the time as I do(recomended), or use the door to fan the closet out whenever you go to mist and fan the tub. Also, different cakes at different stages in the chamber shouldnt be a problem... just make sure and watch the older cakes for contams closely and toss em at the first sign. Also, all the cakes should pin in a proper built shotgun, but dont expect the same pinset from all of them... When working with multi spore syringes you basically have hundreds and hundreds of "strains", each of which will have different qualities... Some big, some small, some potent, some weak, some clusters, some single fruits.... any cubensis mushroom traight may be waiting to fruit from your cake. Often the crazy pinsets you see when the whole cake is covered in fruits of the same size and appearence, those are done by strain isolation. CHEERS! keep us posted!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 8, 2010)

thanks for all the advice broski!

the closet im keeping the terrarium in will always be kept open.
so no worries there.

and thank you for the clarification on birthing at different times.

i got a few things to do but in the next few hours ill be birthing 6 cakes!!!!
ill post pictures later


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## cartman (Dec 8, 2010)

quick question heatless, when your jars were incubating were your jar lids loose or tight? I've got my lids tight right now with the tape removed off the innoc holes. I read somewhere the loose/tight lid depends entirely on how much moisture is in the jar. I have no idea how to tell how moist they are, but they dont look dry.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 9, 2010)

cant really say i know.
that last week of incubation i opened the jar lids a few times to speed up the process.
i did this for CO2 release and oxygen exchange to make sure the mycelium didnt stall and grew faster.

some of the lids were tight, some of them were kind of lose but not much.

you wont have any issues just as long as you follow the recipe and use the correct amount of verm, BRF, and water for 1/2 pint jars.


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## dankillerbs (Dec 9, 2010)

Hey man if your jars are having trouble finishing I'm
guessing it's because you have the tall skinny half pint jars... If you can, grab yourself the short wide mouth half pint jars... They aren't as deep as the other jars so myc has an easier time colonizing them... Also with the tall ones gravity tends to pack the bottom of the jars more tightly than it would with the shorter ones leading to slow colonization of the bottom... Which parts were the last to colonize? Just a suggestion because I would never open an uncolonized jar myself, just sounds risky to me. If you have the 4 innoculation holes uncovered like you should, they should provide plenty of gas exchange to colonize 100% fine.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 9, 2010)

makes sense.

it think they are slower because the amount of spore fluid i put into some of the jars.
some got more, some got less. maybe im wrong but i understand your logic.

everything is looking awesome!!!
the cakes are into 14 hours of dunking in cool water


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## cartman (Dec 9, 2010)

thanks, I'll leave the jar lids tight with holes uncovered. I got the short 1/2 pint wide mouth jars and followed the pf recipe so i should be good. 

cant wait for the rest of your journal heatless... Almost paying more attention to this thread than my own grow lol


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 9, 2010)

hahah really?

well im off to take pictures.
i will hopefully post some tonight.

=]

thanks cartman btw.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 9, 2010)

today is the first today of pinset initiation!!!!

i dunked the cakes for 26 hours.

the photos show that the RH is not at 95%-100%

this was changed after the photos were taken.

everything is looking AOK


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## dankillerbs (Dec 10, 2010)

Hey man, just so you know, most hygrometers suck and aren't reliable. If you want a decent one go to a cigar shop and get one that can be calibrated. But really, since you built the shotgun correctly you shouldn't have and rh% issue, so don't stress if that thing isn't reading as high as you think it should... If your perlite is moist and your tub is raised up, you should be golden. Also, a proper built fruiting chamber doesn't really get condensation on the walls, that's not related to humidity... it's just was it is, condensation... Which forms when it's warmer in the tub than in the room it's in... With a proper chamber it gets enough air from the room to keep the chamber the same temp, which doesn't cause condensation. Just clearing up some common misconceptions about humidity... Cakes look great by the way! Can't wait for some pin porn! Haha


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## BuddhaC (Dec 10, 2010)

The perlite looks a little wet to me? Anyways, I've read you get the same results from .5ccs of spores as you do from 1cc. That's with 4 inoculation holes though, so I don't know if it differs with less holes.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 10, 2010)

dankillerbs said:


> Hey man, just so you know, most hygrometers suck and aren't reliable. If you want a decent one go to a cigar shop and get one that can be calibrated. But really, since you built the shotgun correctly you shouldn't have and rh% issue, so don't stress if that thing isn't reading as high as you think it should... If your perlite is moist and your tub is raised up, you should be golden. Also, a proper built fruiting chamber doesn't really get condensation on the walls, that's not related to humidity... it's just was it is, condensation... Which forms when it's warmer in the tub than in the room it's in... With a proper chamber it gets enough air from the room to keep the chamber the same temp, which doesn't cause condensation. Just clearing up some common misconceptions about humidity... Cakes look great by the way! Can't wait for some pin porn! Haha


your words have made me feel awesome. haha

i cant wait to show you all some pin porn.
sooo excited!!!


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## Karmapuff (Dec 11, 2010)

Noob: Why do you dunk the cakes for 26 hours? It's just in water right? 
btw those cakes look healthy and ready to produce amazing flush's :]


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 11, 2010)

Karmapuff said:


> Noob: Why do you dunk the cakes for 26 hours? It's just in water right?
> btw those cakes look healthy and ready to produce amazing flush's :]


26 hours is the exact time i took the cakes out out of the water.
24 hours is the right time but i took em out at 26 just beacause i had to do something for 2 hours before taking them out.

and yes, just water, distilled or filtered water.


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## sonar (Dec 11, 2010)

Hey man those are some nice looking cakes. I have 8 jars of Ecuador I'm thinking about birthing tonight or tomorrow. They've been fully colonized since about tuesday or wednesday. This is my first time growing so I'm still debating the dunk or not. I might just wait til after the first flush since I'm paranoid as hell about getting contam.

Man, I've been wanting to do this for so long. I can't believe how easy PF Tek is. 8 jars and no contam . I have a little 400w space heater that I kept on low and that kept my area a constant 80 degrees. Think that's why they colonized so fast for me. Got 4 more syringes (2 more ecuador, 1 golden teacher, 1 puerto rican) that I can't wait to get going! Maybe I'll start a grow log.


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## mojoganjaman (Dec 11, 2010)

sonar said:


> Hey man those are some nice looking cakes. I have 8 jars of Ecuador I'm thinking about birthing tonight or tomorrow. They've been fully colonized since about tuesday or wednesday. This is my first time growing so I'm still debating the dunk or not. I might just wait til after the first flush since I'm paranoid as hell about getting contam.
> 
> Man, I've been wanting to do this for so long. I can't believe how easy PF Tek is. 8 jars and no contam . I have a little 400w space heater that I kept on low and that kept my area a constant 80 degrees. Think that's why they colonized so fast for me. Got 4 more syringes (2 more ecuador, 1 golden teacher, 1 puerto rican) that I can't wait to get going! Maybe I'll start a grow log.



never fear contams once you have colonization...the myc is strong enough to defeat an invader...dunk those cakes...roll 'em up and send them to the FC...hth


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 11, 2010)

sonar said:


> Hey man those are some nice looking cakes. I have 8 jars of Ecuador I'm thinking about birthing tonight or tomorrow. They've been fully colonized since about tuesday or wednesday. This is my first time growing so I'm still debating the dunk or not. I might just wait til after the first flush since I'm paranoid as hell about getting contam.
> 
> Man, I've been wanting to do this for so long. I can't believe how easy PF Tek is. 8 jars and no contam . I have a little 400w space heater that I kept on low and that kept my area a constant 80 degrees. Think that's why they colonized so fast for me. Got 4 more syringes (2 more ecuador, 1 golden teacher, 1 puerto rican) that I can't wait to get going! Maybe I'll start a grow log.


hmmm. great idea with the space heater.
most people dont know how to use one but if you kept it at 80 degrees. you def. know how to.
congrats!!!




mojoganjaman said:


> never fear contams once you have colonization...the myc is strong enough to defeat an invader...dunk those cakes...roll 'em up and send them to the FC...hth


and i agree with this guy

=]

dunk those fuckers.

i didnt roll them this time but you can roll if you want but im not doing a casing layer this time


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 11, 2010)

dankillerbs said:


> Hey man, just so you know, most hygrometers suck and aren't reliable. If you want a decent one go to a cigar shop and get one that can be calibrated. But really, since you built the shotgun correctly you shouldn't have and rh% issue, so don't stress if that thing isn't reading as high as you think it should... If your perlite is moist and your tub is raised up, you should be golden. Also, a proper built fruiting chamber doesn't really get condensation on the walls, that's not related to humidity... it's just was it is, condensation... Which forms when it's warmer in the tub than in the room it's in... With a proper chamber it gets enough air from the room to keep the chamber the same temp, which doesn't cause condensation. Just clearing up some common misconceptions about humidity... Cakes look great by the way! Can't wait for some pin porn! Haha


i hope you are right because the hygrometer is still being stupid.
i even tried an electric one and it reads 40% humidity.

im glad to hear i created a proper FC.

when do the first signs of pins show after the first day of initiating pinset???
isnt it a week?


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## mojoganjaman (Dec 12, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> i hope you are right because *the hygrometer is still being stupid.
> i even tried an electric one and it reads 40% humidity.
> *
> im glad to hear i created a proper FC.
> ...



wrap the hygrometer in a damp towel...look after 1 hour...calibrate from there...hth


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## dankillerbs (Dec 12, 2010)

What he means is, wrap your hygrometer in a damp towel and if it doesnt read 90%+ humidity after an hour you know not to believe a thing it says. Also, digital ones suck too... Like I said if you really wanna know you need a calibratable one from a cigar shop... do the damp towel thing and ajust it to 95% after an hour. Even then, they need to be calibrated weekly. Expect pins within a few days if you gave the myc a chance to consolidate after 100%, otherwise they wont do much til after a week or so.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 12, 2010)

sounds good to me =]

what does it mean if the cakes are already slightly turning blue?
i say this because only one of the cakes on the top is slightly blue already?

am i fanning too much and it needs more moisture?


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## 420God (Dec 13, 2010)

Came to see some shrooms! How's it going?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 13, 2010)

420God said:


> Came to see some shrooms! How's it going?


i wanna see some too!!!!

haha

things are loooking awesome.
i got 9 GT cakes in the FC so far.
the first 6 cakes are looking realllll bumpy with knots.
=D

i should see pins within the next day or so.

off to go mist and fan!!!


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## 420God (Dec 13, 2010)

Sweet, just got mine in the FC this morning.


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## dankillerbs (Dec 13, 2010)

Myc turns blue from handling it, it bruises... Which can also happen if they start to dry out, but since it's only one of the cakes I'm guessing it just got handled a little more rough. Nothing to worry about, should be back to white in a few day and shouldn't hurt a thing. Just remember how heavy the cake was after the dunk and shoot to maintain that moisture content... If they start to shrink and feel light (even while they still are fruiting) you can fill a small dish with water to set them in while still in the fruiting chamber and it will help keep them hydrated.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 13, 2010)

hmmmm....i like the dish with water idea.

you are a goldmine of info yo

i try and +rep you as much as possible haha


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 13, 2010)

ahhhhhh!!!!

getting anxious and excited!!!

X]


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## cartman (Dec 13, 2010)

heatless, how long did it take before you noticed growth in your jars? Like how many days from innoculation? Im on day 6 now and have absolutely nothing in any of my jars. Maybe im being impatient lol. Temp was right at 70 so i got a heat pad and raised the jars on a rack above the pad. now temps are at 78 so hopefully that speeds things up.


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## mindphuk (Dec 13, 2010)

Good thread. I wish I could join you all but I happen to live in Georgia.


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 13, 2010)

not trying to hi-jack here. ive been looking and reading kittys and ur,heatlessbbq, threads and just asking questions and learning

ive got B+ cakes in my fc,been there for 9 days. no signs of anything goin on. i spray and fan in the a.m. around 7, then when i get home, like 7p.m. i'll get home and wont have any water droplets on any of the walls. i've even taken the cakes out and turned over the perlite while adding a lil water. temps are around 70-80, i've got a heater goin in my closet. also got lights,christmas lights, i put on for just about 12. 

do i just have to wait longer to see anything??, ive got the f/c elevated with a floor mat and towel under it,and its always moist....the verm seems to be stuck on the cakes pretty good,some times while misting the cakes get hit with water,is that bad? i've got pics on kitty's thread of my fc with cakes in them

good luck with urs,heatlessbbq


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 14, 2010)

Senor SmokeAlot said:


> not trying to hi-jack here. ive been looking and reading kittys and ur,heatlessbbq, threads and just asking questions and learning
> 
> ive got B+ cakes in my fc,been there for 9 days. no signs of anything goin on. i spray and fan in the a.m. around 7, then when i get home, like 7p.m. i'll get home and wont have any water droplets on any of the walls. i've even taken the cakes out and turned over the perlite while adding a lil water. temps are around 70-80, i've got a heater goin in my closet. also got lights,christmas lights, i put on for just about 12.
> 
> ...


i think it may be taking longer because you used a casing layer??

ive never used one so i wouldnt know.

but im about a week into initiating pinset and no pins yet. and i didnt use a casing layer.

so i think everything you are doing is fine =]

good luck to you as well sir!
feel free to post your progress in this thread


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## dankillerbs (Dec 14, 2010)

Senor, are you using a shotgun terrarium with holes on every side? Are you leaving your closet door open or closed? Try to mist and fan at least 4 times daily or at least do it a 3rd time before you go to bed. Water drops on the cakes is no problem with proper FAE. They SHOULD be drying off on the surface but you need to replace that moisture by misting. Also, string those damn christmas lights up on your house and show a little chrismas cheer, then go pick yourself up a small CFL with a 6500k spectrum. Cristmas lights are probably one of the worst choices for lighting. Also, a verm roll wouldnt make it take longer to fruit... not letting the jar consolidate for 1 week after 100% and only fanning and misting twice a day might though... Its the ebb and flow of moisture from the substrate that initiates pinning. By the way Heatless, you seeing any knots yet? You should have pins in no time!


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 14, 2010)

dankillerbs said:


> Senor, are you using a shotgun terrarium with holes on every side? Are you leaving your closet door open or closed? Try to mist and fan at least 4 times daily or at least do it a 3rd time before you go to bed. Water drops on the cakes is no problem with proper FAE. They SHOULD be drying off on the surface but you need to replace that moisture by misting. Also, string those damn christmas lights up on your house and show a little chrismas cheer, then go pick yourself up a small CFL with a 6500k spectrum. Cristmas lights are probably one of the worst choices for lighting. Also, a verm roll wouldnt make it take longer to fruit... not letting the jar consolidate for 1 week after 100% and only fanning and misting twice a day might though... Its the ebb and flow of moisture from the substrate that initiates pinning. By the way Heatless, you seeing any knots yet? You should have pins in no time!


interestin very interesting.....well its my first grow so i figured i'd make mistakes

yea i got a shotgun terrarium,holes in all sides,someone on here mentioned i might have to may holes. closet door is always closed but its a good size walkin closet,although during the day the chamber is kinda of concealed and hidden. baaaa humbug with christmas..j/k.. i've got a tube light,that i use to use for my lizards,puts out uva and uvb light, would that be better then the x-mas lights? hehe,might have not waited a full week after 100% colinization. rookie mistake. damn. ill try to mist and fan some more...thanks again to all and to all a good night


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 15, 2010)

cartman said:


> heatless, how long did it take before you noticed growth in your jars? Like how many days from innoculation? Im on day 6 now and have absolutely nothing in any of my jars. Maybe im being impatient lol. Temp was right at 70 so i got a heat pad and raised the jars on a rack above the pad. now temps are at 78 so hopefully that speeds things up.


it depends what strain of cubensis you got.
mine showed anywhere from 4-10 days after inoculation (if it takes longer than 10 days it is probably because its contaminated)

if it was at 70 degrees F. then that is probably why it is taking a while.

hopefully the heat pad works IF USED PROPERLY. sounds like you are since you have elevated the jars from it.

good luck friend


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 15, 2010)

mindphuk said:


> Good thread. I wish I could join you all but I happen to live in Georgia.


ahhh that is worst of luck.
im sorry bro. maybe youll figure something out 



Senor SmokeAlot said:


> yea i got a shotgun terrarium,holes in all sides,someone on here mentioned i might have to may holes. closet door is always closed but its a good size walkin closet,although during the day the chamber is kinda of concealed and hidden. baaaa humbug with christmas..j/k.. i've got a tube light,that i use to use for my lizards,puts out uva and uvb light, would that be better then the x-mas lights? hehe,might have not waited a full week after 100% colinization. rookie mistake. damn. ill try to mist and fan some more...thanks again to all and to all a good night


you should just go to home depot or local hardware store and buy a cheap clamp light.
and buy a Compact Florescent twisty lightbulb that gives off the daylight spectrum. 6500Kalvin range.


that all should cost you not even $20


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## wally nutter (Dec 15, 2010)

subbed!!! gotta get prepared for my first wack at this fungus production


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 15, 2010)

wally nutter said:


> subbed!!! gotta get prepared for my first wack at this fungus production


if you read all the way through me and kitties grow logs.
youll basically know everything.

starting your own log helps so much too cuz you can ask such specific questions and get them answered dead on. and it only takes a few days or less for peoples response =D


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## wally nutter (Dec 15, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> if you read all the way through me and kitties grow logs.
> youll basically know everything.
> 
> starting your own log helps so much too cuz you can ask such specific questions and get them answered dead on. and it only takes a few days or less for peoples response =D


i will deff keep a log. and im liking the shotgun design. last night i read a reallllllly long article that taught me a lot. the terrarium though was gunna involve getting an ultra sonic humidifier and all this complicated bull. this shotgun design is just perfect. keep it simple stupid.

ive got one question buggin me. the article i read advised not misting the cakes. this was with a completely different terrarium design though. the shotgun tut says to mist them. do i still mist them when theyre pinning and fruiting?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 15, 2010)

yes you do.


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## wally nutter (Dec 15, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> yes you do.


ok cool awesome. i thought i was gunna have to aim around them or some shyt. have you ever grown outdoors? i saw you can do so with used up cakes. i think ima give that a wack when spring comes around


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 15, 2010)

you do not spray the cakes directly.

you spray into the air and let the SMALL, FINE water particles fall onto the cakes.

i dont know how cultivation outside is possible unless you bury your spent cakes.

im starting a thread soon all about the subject so stay tuned


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## wally nutter (Dec 15, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> you do not spray the cakes directly.
> 
> you spray into the air and let the SMALL, FINE water particles fall onto the cakes.


gothca



HeatlessBBQ said:


> i dont know how cultivation outside is possible unless you bury your spent cakes.


precisely


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 16, 2010)

sorry i havnt posted any images yet but everything is looking good and kinda blue but thats okay =]
im seeing pins! but not enough yet that are picture worthy. in a few days.

ive been upping my misting and FAE but mainly misting. and trying to do that a lot more then i have been...

i moved my fruiting chamber to a bathroom that is no longer in use. reason being is because the temperature was around 60-66degrees F.
it is now at 74-77degreesF.

i shall be posting awesome looking pin porn in a few days.

PROMISE!!
=]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so i have birthed all of my Golden Teachers and the last 3 are dunking right now.

some of the cambodians got contaminated but no biggie!!

i was thinking i wanna try crumbling one cake into a aluminum trey and put a casing layer of verm on top and see if this will increase yield??
i will try a spawn to substrate later on in 2011 but for now i just wanna keep it pretty simple.
can this be possible??
such as: birthing cakes then dunk for 24 hours then crumbling cake into trey with layer of verm on bottom and a casing layer of verm on top then put into FC???
or is there more to it?


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## wally nutter (Dec 16, 2010)

what is FAE

nvm


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 16, 2010)

FAE.........fresh air exchage, wats nvm? 

my 2 or 3 of my cakes are a lil blue also. i did pick one up to get a closer look to see if i had any pinning, but nothing still. im misting and fanning in the am, around 630pm , and like midnight. also i did get a full spectrum light but could only find 55k light thing. 

just patiantly waiting...was hopeing to have something for christmas. there's a big christmas light...like park/exhibit close to me. its a place they have concerts but all the trees have lights and they have a bunch of santas and deers and shit like that.. think six flags holloween thing but christmas like. i'd like to eat some and go there. might be cool.


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## wally nutter (Dec 17, 2010)

Senor SmokeAlot said:


> FAE.........fresh air exchage, wats nvm?
> 
> my 2 or 3 of my cakes are a lil blue also. i did pick one up to get a closer look to see if i had any pinning, but nothing still. im misting and fanning in the am, around 630pm , and like midnight. also i did get a full spectrum light but could only find 55k light thing.
> 
> just patiantly waiting...was hopeing to have something for christmas. there's a big christmas light...like park/exhibit close to me. its a place they have concerts but all the trees have lights and they have a bunch of santas and deers and shit like that.. think six flags holloween thing but christmas like. i'd like to eat some and go there. might be cool.


nvm means never mind. after i asked i went and searched it myself


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 20, 2010)

finally!!!

here are some pix....

ive made a few changes and they are helping a lot.

fyi...the upper 6 w/o verm are the oldest into fruit.
the bottom 3 w/o verm are 2nd.
the 3 with verm are a week behind the first 6.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 20, 2010)

i have never seen this in any images of other mushroom cultivations on the internet.

is this the start of giant pinheads and will soon to be mushrooms?

im curious.

has anyone ever seen this?

i have never, and they dont look like normal pinheads...


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 20, 2010)

I've never seen anything like that last pic u posted, interested to find out what it is.

At last, i've alos got pinning, finally. i was getting worried i messed up mt whole grow some how. 4 out 6 have pinnin on them,after 3 weeks in the chamber. the pins arent as big as heatlessbbq's, on no do i have penis envy or wat,hahaha bad joke. no im growing b+,pins look just like urs. 

i think more misting and the change of light bulb might have helped. ill post pics later just to prove . nice work though heatless,im right behind ya.


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## 420God (Dec 20, 2010)

Awesome man, I'm happy for you!!!

You're just a little bit ahead of me now, I just noticed pins yesterday.

Never seen that in the last pic, maybe you'll get a couple mutant monsters.


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## DarthD3vl (Dec 20, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> i have never seen this in any images of other mushroom cultivations on the internet.
> 
> is this the start of giant pinheads and will soon to be mushrooms?
> 
> ...


yep i saw that on my last cakes threw me off a little bit but a few of them grew caps and turned in to regular mushies, a few stayed like that, they were cap less aborts either one could happen, but dont worry its perfectly safe


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 21, 2010)

harvested a few today =]
i think ill be flushing the first 6 cakes tonight or tomorrow.

then this time i am going to grind up the verm (very fine) and roll it after the dunk after i flush.
=]
things are lookings awesome.

i cant wait to chomp that 1 grammer below


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## PStanky (Dec 21, 2010)

fuckin sweet dude lookin good.
those are some tiny cakes..never seen
ones that small =)


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## 420God (Dec 21, 2010)

Sweet!! Just in time to enjoy the holiday lights!!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 21, 2010)

420god said:


> sweet!! Just in time to enjoy the holiday lights!!


you read my freakn mind!
=d


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 21, 2010)

PStanky said:


> fuckin sweet dude lookin good.
> those are some tiny cakes..never seen
> ones that small =)


thank you sir!!! =D
i wish i could share the love somehow haha


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## PStanky (Dec 21, 2010)

brother sharing those lovely pics is enough for me =)


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 21, 2010)

herer sum pics of where im at. anyone know is that bluish/greenish not sure wat colorish to call it. ive got one cake thats got not pins and is this color and another with pins growing. dont know if i should take any em out of the fc.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 22, 2010)

i cant tell if that looks like bruising or Trichoderma green mold.

is it more blue or green?
if its green its Trichoderma

fyi....your 2nd image looks to have an awesome pinset so far.


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 23, 2010)

yea that 2nd pic is my best cake....and i had a friend over who desnt know anything bout shroomin, acked him wat color ur think, he said looks like a black and blue....so blue'ish...maybe i just wanna convice myself. but all but one cake has growth,fuck yea!


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## dankillerbs (Dec 23, 2010)

Trich will look like another layer over the myc with a different texture. Myc can bruise blue/green. If it looks like the myc is blue or green it could be bruising, but if it's a layer of green on top of the myc it's trich. I think you will know because it will take over your whole cake quickly if it's trich.


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## noobdestroyer (Dec 23, 2010)

where you guys get that pressure cooker with 15 psi... hard to find


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 23, 2010)

noobdestroyer said:


> where you guys get that pressure cooker with 15 psi... hard to find


i didnt use a p/c, could only find an 8qrt for like $50, so i just pot a big pot at target, and used drinking glasses instead of jars. couldnt find any jars that didnt taper at the top. brouuht pot with water to full boil, then simmered for like almost 2 hours. every where i read said 90mins but since i was using a pot and glasses, figured id go a lil longer.. i used some jar lids on the bottom of pot with a layer of foil, and then a few more lidsontop of foil. the lids touchin the bottom of pot got a little burnt and stainded the pot a lil,but i bought the pot for this purpose so its not a big deal.

i didnt get any contam in any of my jars(glasses) made 6 and they r grownig.......when i knocked them up i did it in my shower. it was cleaned the day before then i put all my stuff in there sprayed all of it down with lysol like 2-3 times. went in with latex gloves and a mask. oh and when the pot was done boiling i let it cool and taped the lid down,so it wouldn't come off or i wouldnt accidently take the lid off,less of a chance of contam, is what i was thinking.


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## [email protected] T33 (Dec 24, 2010)

white jars = happy


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 25, 2010)

wya better pinset =]


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## DarthD3vl (Dec 25, 2010)

ah very nice


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## sonar (Dec 25, 2010)

Got some nice looking cakes there Heatless! They definitely love that moist verm on the top. Not sure what happened, could have swore I subbed this thread a few weeks ago after I posted.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 25, 2010)

im enjoying yours as well sir!

i love how about 3 or 4 of us are cultivating cubez the same time.

*we all should get together when we crop out and have a trip ceremony in a tepee with a bon fire in Alaska and watch the Northern Lights!!!! *

=D

how cool would that be....?!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 25, 2010)

DarthD3vl said:


> ah very nice


love your avatar bro! haha


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## sonar (Dec 25, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> im enjoying yours as well sir!
> 
> i love how about 3 or 4 of us are cultivating cubez the same time.
> 
> ...


Man that would be awesome. I use to love tripping in the wood, especially during a full moon with just a little snow on the ground. Like late winter/early spring after a light dusting of snow, but isn't freezing cold. It's so bright with the moonlight reflecting off the snow you almost don't even need a flashlight to get around. They were some good times. The way the trees move in the breeze with the light of the flickering fire makes them literally look like they are dancing. My one friend used to swear they were talking to each other. There's something about being in the woods around a camp fire amongst friends that to me strikes the core of what it is to be human. You can almost feel the connection between yourself and our ancestors who've taken the same voyage for thousands and thousands of years. I'm not an overly spiritual person, so the experience has always been even more profound I think. No surprise they thought they were experiencing visions and revelations from their gods.


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## PStanky (Dec 26, 2010)

sonar said:


> Man that would be awesome. I use to love tripping in the wood, especially during a full moon with just a little snow on the ground. Like late winter/early spring after a light dusting of snow, but isn't freezing cold. It's so bright with the moonlight reflecting off the snow you almost don't even need a flashlight to get around. They were some good times. The way the trees move in the breeze with the light of the flickering fire makes them literally look like they are dancing. My one friend used to swear they were talking to each other. There's something about being in the woods around a camp fire amongst friends that to me strikes the core of what it is to be human. You can almost feel the connection between yourself and our ancestors who've taken the same voyage for thousands and thousands of years. I'm not an overly spiritual person, so the experience has always been even more profound I think. *No surprise they thought they were experiencing visions and revelations from their gods*.


whos to say that they werent?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 26, 2010)

here are the last three cakes.

the other 9 cakes have been flushed for their first time and have been dunked and rolled and now are poppin pins like crazy!!!!
i just flushed one of the last three cakes and its dunked right now.
the other two cakes shown in image 2 need a few more days to gain girth 
the crop from 9 cakes dried is 17.7 grams, first flush.
(that's discluding an 8th and a bunch of aborts which i will write a trip report soon from)
i did not roll but i did dunk their first round but i now know that i need to roll my cakes 

the 3rd image is the amount of freshly picked GT that i got off the cake on the 1st image.
this cake had a double casing layer of verm. 
It weighed out to 35.6 fresh. not bad....

i admit that the other previous cakes were less if you do the math.
but i am improving on some things and it is helping ten fold.
such as: dunk AND ROLL, moved the FC to a better room for temp and cleanliness, and have the time to spray and FAE more often during the day/night.

the dunk and roll is completely 110% necessary. read this whole thread and its proof that it helps.

casing layers = two thumbs up 

enjoy the pix!

-BBQ


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## PStanky (Dec 26, 2010)

lookin great as usual. im glad you figured it out 
and your gunna roll from now on. it helps a fuck ton. =)


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## MASS97 (Dec 26, 2010)

Heatless, 

I've never attempted this, but have been READING A LOT!! I have my first shipment of spores coming from micro-supply. My question is how do you distinguish between the blueish bruising from the handling of the mycelia and potential contamination? I was a little concerned for you after looking at the pictures you posted on page 12 and 14. I hope the blue green is just bruising, maybe it's more obvious in person? Good luck!! Your mushrooms look AMAZING, BTW!!! Thanks for your input!


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## noobdestroyer (Dec 26, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> here are the last three cakes.
> 
> the other 9 cakes have been flushed for their first time and have been dunked and rolled and now are poppin pins like crazy!!!!
> i just flushed one of the last three cakes and its dunked right now.
> ...


looks like your booms are coming out the top not the white sides? is this always? which way is up jar topside down right?


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## glShemp (Dec 26, 2010)

Gratz on your grow Mr. Heatless!

Here's a couple of pictures I snapped on Christmas morning. A lone cake I knocked up in late September decided to throw a second flush and the veils dropped Christmas morning. A nice gift from Mother Nature!


----------



## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 26, 2010)

MASS97 said:


> Heatless,
> 
> I've never attempted this, but have been READING A LOT!! I have my first shipment of spores coming from micro-supply. My question is how do you distinguish between the blueish bruising from the handling of the mycelia and potential contamination? I was a little concerned for you after looking at the pictures you posted on page 12 and 14. I hope the blue green is just bruising, maybe it's more obvious in person? Good luck!! Your mushrooms look AMAZING, BTW!!! Thanks for your input!


it is just bruising. no contams. =]
before you handle your cakes during birth or while flushing a cake....you SHOULD wash your hands before.
and it is more obvious in person.
dont worry. only thing you gotta worry about when it comes to contam is when the jars are closed after inoculation.
and DURING.
after its colonized its easy to keep clean.



noobdestroyer said:


> looks like your booms are coming out the top not the white sides? is this always? which way is up jar topside down right?


reason is because i used a double casing layer. i put a layer of verm ontop of the cake. while the bottom layer of verm was there from birthing and incubation as the dry layer of verm. hense....double casing layer.
the white sides NEED to be covered by verm as a casing layer to make sure more mushrooms get more water and stay hydrated. i made the mistake of doing double casing layers and none at all.
ROLL YOUR CAKES COMPLETELY.



glShemp said:


> Gratz on your grow Mr. Heatless!
> 
> Here's a couple of pictures I snapped on Christmas morning. A lone cake I knocked up in late September decided to throw a second flush and the veils dropped Christmas morning. A nice gift from Mother Nature!
> 
> View attachment 1346080View attachment 1346081


nonono sir!!!
merry chirstmas to you!!!!
=D
i hope you enjoyed those wonderful looking cubez.

now all i can look forward to is eating 2 grams dried of these babies and go see MiM0SA and Sound Tribe Sector 9
with some fire mdma!!!!!!!

soooo excited!!!!


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## MASS97 (Dec 26, 2010)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> it is just bruising. no contams. =]
> before you handle your cakes during birth or while flushing a cake....you SHOULD wash your hands before.
> and it is more obvious in person.
> dont worry. only thing you gotta worry about when it comes to contam is when the jars are closed after inoculation.
> ...


Thanks!!! Would wearing latex/nitrile gloves help when having to handle the cakes or is it truly "bruising" like from to much pressure?

I can't wait to get started! +REP to you!!!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 26, 2010)

MASS97 said:


> Thanks!!! Would wearing latex/nitrile gloves help when having to handle the cakes or is it truly "bruising" like from to much pressure?
> 
> I can't wait to get started! +REP to you!!!


it would help.
but if you dont have gloves, a good hand wash and sanitizers gel is enough to keep it clean.
=]

if anyone is stressing over your cakes turning blue.....DONT.
its fine haha

however, the longer you keep it white as possible the more times you can flush you cake 

and like i said and will keep saying....its easy!
hardest part of keeping things clean is inoculation of the jars.
once you have good, clean, solid, WHITE growth in the jars. DO NOT OPEN LIDS UNTIL FULLY COLONIZED (this will lead to contam for sure)
once its growing and not disturbed, the cake is less prone to contaminants.
WHITE IS ONLY WHAT YOU WANT.

and good luck to you on starting._*
EVERYBODY!!!!!
please read this whole thread from start to finish and all of your questions will be answered.*_

if you have an additional info about the PF tek method. please post and I and others will answer the best we can.

much love.
-BBQ


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 26, 2010)

today is a beautiful day.
had an amazing chirstmas....

the weather today may be perfect conditions to get silly off of a gram of some closed caps

=D


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 26, 2010)

yea snowing where im at. and picked/harvested a few guys yesterday. i put them in some brown paper bags, opend in front of a room heater thing wit a fan on the other side blowin on low. thry r pretty dry,havent checked if they r "craker dry" but im thinkin of eat a lil bit...i guess a gram like heatless said. im not lookin for full blown trip just nice lil trip,with some bud

and growin is pretty easy, as stated..just follow directions/how to's/videos'.....not difficult at all.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 26, 2010)

fresh but dried mushrooms are killer still none the less.
but im telling ya...
eating them freshly picked literally DOES give a different effect.
the effects are exactly the same as they would be dried but there is a little more too it, you see...

all i can say is that its a more colorful, potent, concrete trip. i could relate it to an LSD trip because of everything looking more flashy and colorful.and my mind seems to be more controlled and less intense thought patterns. which means i can enjoy my trip a lot easier.

but maybe this is what a more potent shroom trip really is like?

i have purchased quite a few batches of cubensis from the black market in the past... 2.5 grams barley did anything...
i believe that these boomers that i purchased were very old and stored for a long time and didnt have much magic left...

this is why fresh are the best. =]

obviously


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## glShemp (Dec 26, 2010)

Beautiful day here too man. I had to work Christmas so today is a Shroom holiday.

I'm celebrating today with 1.7 grams of potent dried Sacred Mushroom. I have a musical evening planed and I think that's about the most I can take and not be impaired too much to play a musical instrument well. I cut the sacrament with scissors into the smallest pieces I can and them wash them down with water followed by bites of peanut butter and honey on bread. I know, I should just chew them up. But I get a bit of nausea that way. The peanut butter definitely settles the stomach. 

Since this thread has clearly achieved epic status, I hope the OP, Mr. Heatless doesn't mind me sticking this in here I pilfered from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_and_setting



> Set and setting describes the context for psychoactive and particularly psychedelic drug experiences: one's mindset and the setting in which the user has the experience. This is especially relevant for psychedelic or hallucinogenic experiences; the term was coined by Timothy Leary.
> The set is the mental state a person brings to the experience, like thoughts, mood or expectations. The setting refers to the physical or social environment. Social support networks have shown to be particularly important in the outcome of the psychedelic experience [1]. They are able to control or guide the course of the experience, both consciously and subconsciously. Stress, fear, or a disagreeable environment, may result in an unpleasant experience (bad trip). Conversely, a relaxed, curious person in a warm, comfortable and safe place is more likely to have a pleasant experience.


And from Timothy Leary's book The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead:



> Of course, the drug dose does not produce the transcendent experience. It merely acts as a chemical key  it opens the mind, frees the nervous system of its ordinary patterns and structures. The nature of the experience depends almost entirely on set and setting. Set denotes the preparation of the individual, including his personality structure and his mood at the time. Setting is physical  the weather, the room's atmosphere; social  feelings of persons present towards one another; and cultural  prevailing views as to what is real. It is for this reason that manuals or guide-books are necessary. Their purpose is to enable a person to understand the new realities of the expanded consciousness, to serve as road maps for new interior territories which modern science has made accessible


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## sonar (Dec 26, 2010)

Haha, I guess great minds think alike. I ate about 15-20g fresh yesterday afternoon just to test the waters. I couldn't in good conscience give any to my friends before testing them out myself. It's been awhile since I ate boomers and they were always crap, so I figured the 15-20g fresh range would be a good jumping off point. The experience was pretty mild, but pleasant. They actually tasted pretty good. Then again I love the taste of mushrooms in general. Sort of like a slightly woody baby portabella. The best part was, other than the fact I grew them myself, was that there was very little of that classic nausea associated with eating mushrooms. Not much of a "hangover" either. I guess at that dose, there really shouldn't be though.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 27, 2010)

i never get hangovers with mushrooms.

once you get into mdma or kitty....hangovers are nothing compared to those too...sometimes.
i dont even wanna know what a hangover is like after a meth or coke binge.


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## dankillerbs (Dec 28, 2010)

Ah yeah heatless... Looks great! Proof that if you can follow directions, you can have a good havest! Way to go brotha! Let's get a trip report


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 28, 2010)

so i ate a gram on sunday, and then 1.5grams,monday...and nothing. i did smoke a bowl or two while...waiting for the effects,but nothing. they were like a day or two old, i grew'em my self. They had shrunken and gotten dried out,not cracker dry. I thought, ok fresh are suppose to be potent, soo let me do a little. nada, maybe a slight body high. but honestly nada......i guess i need to consume more,right??

also,how r u guys/gals dring ur harvest?


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## cartman (Dec 28, 2010)

I bet you still had a bit of water weight to the shrooms you ate. So a gram or 1.5 grams was likely not enough. If they were cracker dry you would have noticed something.



Senor SmokeAlot said:


> so i ate a gram on sunday, and then 1.5grams,monday...and nothing. i did smoke a bowl or two while...waiting for the effects,but nothing. they were like a day or two old, i grew'em my self. They had shrunken and gotten dried out,not cracker dry. I thought, ok fresh are suppose to be potent, soo let me do a little. nada, maybe a slight body high. but honestly nada......i guess i need to consume more,right??
> 
> also,how r u guys/gals dring ur harvest?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 29, 2010)

dankillerbs said:


> Ah yeah heatless... Looks great! Proof that if you can follow directions, you can have a good havest! Way to go brotha! Let's get a trip report


i couldnt have done it without you brother...for real.
you know it.
i know it.
anyone who reads these/this thread knows it.
+rep

ill getcha that trip report as soon as i can 



Senor SmokeAlot said:


> so i ate a gram on sunday, and then 1.5grams,monday...and nothing. i did smoke a bowl or two while...waiting for the effects,but nothing. they were like a day or two old, i grew'em my self. They had shrunken and gotten dried out,not cracker dry. I thought, ok fresh are suppose to be potent, soo let me do a little. nada, maybe a slight body high. but honestly nada......i guess i need to consume more,right??
> 
> also,how r u guys/gals dring ur harvest?


hmmmm....dude.
my buddy has a tolerance that sounds just like yours.

i still havnt figured out a good dose for him.

try eating 20-25 grams fresh and see how that does it for ya


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## DarthD3vl (Dec 29, 2010)

1.5 normally wouldn't give me anything but some gentle wall breathing....


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## Senor SmokeAlot (Dec 29, 2010)

my first 2 times ever tring shrooms, i ate a lil more then 1.5 and boy did i see/feel it. that was like 3yrs ago and i've only done them like 4 time afterthat...well for my next trick,hahaha, ill take 2-2.5 for new yrs,maybe a lil before midnight.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Dec 29, 2010)

drink a bunch of grapefruit or orange juice while and after eating them!!!!

itll kick those fuckers in fa sho!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 6, 2011)

sorry its been so long since update...

here are some random pictures i have taken a week or two ago.

busy holiday season this year for sure!!!!!
but was it a fun one...---------

fyi....the 4th image is the amount i got off of *2* GT cakes.
i believe it was the 2nd flush of both cakes.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 6, 2011)

i am into the 3-4 flushes on the golden teachers.
everything is looking good still.
no contams.

i only had 3 successful cambodians make it and are on their first flush.

i am ordering more syringes in the next few days.


rolling your cakes each time you dunk them helps a lot and will assure more flushes it seems.
but i dont know when you should stop flushing your cakes...

how do you know when a cake is completely spent?


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## dankillerbs (Jan 6, 2011)

how do you know when a cake is completely spent?

It contaminates eventually. Typically under ideal conditions it will produce over 80% of it's weight in the first 3 flushes so many just toss it out after that... It's more productive to have more cakes ready to go after your previous cakes flush 3 times... That way you get more weight and you don't have to deal with mold spores from projects eventually contaminating.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 6, 2011)

and instead of tossing my cakes away...

where and how do i spawn my cakes in mother nature?

do i have to wait until spring until i can bury my cakes? (of course i cant save the ones i have now til then)
if so...ill just toss them now.

but for future references...i have some questions... 

what kind of environment?
i was thinking of buying a bag of mushroom compost and burying it under that.

and once i successfully grow mushrooms outside and spores drop....can the mushrooms grow back next season?

i have no idea how this can be done....or even if it can be?

i live 5,000+ feet above sea level. high altitude. it rains a lot in the months of April - July. but can still be considered dry no matter what.

any info would be awesome.
and have any of you successfully spawned your cakes outside and gotten results?
if so...what is your average climate and environment like around you, outside?


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## DarthD3vl (Jan 6, 2011)

dankillerbs said:


> how do you know when a cake is completely spent?
> 
> It contaminates eventually. Typically under ideal conditions it will produce over 80% of it's weight in the first 3 flushes so many just toss it out after that... It's more productive to have more cakes ready to go after your previous cakes flush 3 times... That way you get more weight and you don't have to deal with mold spores from projects eventually contaminating.


I know mine are spent when they stop producing lol, my cakes never contam, ever!!!! thats when i bury them outside under loose dirt and leaves. water and wait!!


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 6, 2011)

hmmm. =]

i love cultivating mushrooms


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 12, 2011)

bahahahahaha!!!!!

dude i'm in love with aborts.

i ate 0.4 grams of a closed cap dried cambodian and 4-5 tiny little aborts.

i cant believe i am even feeling anything.

=D


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## 420God (Jan 12, 2011)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> bahahahahaha!!!!!
> 
> dude i'm in love with aborts.
> 
> ...


I'm surprised as shit on how potent mine turned out also.

I ate 3 grams on NYE and it was scary as hell. The next weekend I ate 1 gram and still tripped balls.

I definitely have enough to last me for a long time at that dose.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 12, 2011)

yeah dude....

we toldja...

haha

dont under estimate the power of mushrooms.

i remember my first mushrooms trip eating 3.5 grams having no idea what they would do to me.
then accidentally I got a front row seat to see what they really did do to me...

scary as hell when it was happening but i wouldn't give up those memories for anything =]

ever since then i know how to dose them right.
but sometimes the dose can be totally out of whack because of strain, the way it grew, what substrate, conditions...etc

thats what i love about mushrooms....they can be totally un-predictable.

that's why you gotta test the new batch with 0.5 grams - 1 gram at the most for the first time.
even if you are the experienced with a high tolerance or someone who has never tried mushrooms....
you should do this


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## 420God (Jan 12, 2011)

Lol, for sure from now on. 

It was a hell of a ride and experience.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 12, 2011)

you will cherish those memories and each day after today you will keep remembering each part of the trip more and more...
=]


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## dankillerbs (Jan 12, 2011)

Hey Heatless, just curious how your harvesting from your cakes...? Once you have caps opening are you just picking the mature fruits only? Or are you picking the entire cake, pins and all, before you dunk and roll again?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 12, 2011)

when i flush i cake. i flush a cake.
aborts, small pins, mature fruits and all before i dunk them again.

i read you should do this before but i dunno why...

can you please explain my good sir?


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## DarthD3vl (Jan 12, 2011)

little pins can rot if you dont pick them, leading to contams


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 12, 2011)

ahh ha
gotcha my good friend


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## dankillerbs (Jan 12, 2011)

Actually, its the opposite... you should only pick aborts and fruits that have fully matured. Your damaging future flushes by picking everything. All those pins your picking would have turned into mature fruits had they been left on the cake. It only prolongs the time it takes to get all the fruits the substrate will produce. If it takes you 8 flushes to get all the fruits your sub will produce its because you keep destroying the mycs chance to give it to you sooner by picking the pins. There is no problem dunking a cake with pins on it, in fact they will sometimes double in size during the dunk.


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## DarthD3vl (Jan 12, 2011)

dankillerbs said:


> Actually, its the opposite... you should *only pick aborts and fruits that have fully matured*. Your damaging future flushes by picking everything. All those pins your picking would have turned into mature fruits had they been left on the cake. It only prolongs the time it takes to get all the fruits the substrate will produce. If it takes you 8 flushes to get all the fruits your sub will produce its because you keep destroying the mycs chance to give it to you sooner by picking the pins. There is no problem dunking a cake with pins on it, in fact they will sometimes double in size during the dunk.



im gonna have to disagree...
at the end of each flush all the mushrooms should be fully mature, if there not.. your *dunking to early*, it can take all day and night even two days(personal experince) to pick a flush completely..

the second one of those pins heads turn black, its rotting, and will contam, if its an abort its as big as it gonna get. *search shroomery you will see no pro leaves that shit on there*. I did my first two flushes with cakes because I suspected they may grow bigger, after dunking the aborts had rotted, rotting shrooms will make you sick.

im pretty sure thats even in those RR videos...

and here and excerpt from the dunk and roll tek posted on shroomery


*When Should I Dunk and Roll?*


Immediately after birthing a cake and before placing it in the fruiting chamber you should always dunk and roll. A lot of water has been lost during the weeks the substrate has been colonizing.
Between flushes. Once you have picked *all the fruits* off the cake or *none have been growing for a few days you know your flush is over*. Now is the time to dunk again, preparing the substrate for the next flush. 


heres the link if you wanna take a look
http://www.shroomery.org/10253/PF-TEK-Update-Dunk-and-Roll


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## GypsyBush (Jan 12, 2011)

Oh Yeah..!!!
Subscribed... :bonghit:




HeatlessBBQ said:


> harvested a few today =]
> i think ill be flushing the first 6 cakes tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> then this time i am going to grind up the verm (very fine) and roll it after the dunk after i flush.
> ...


----------



## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 12, 2011)

View attachment 1378345View attachment 1378347View attachment 1378348

check out some of these beauties from recent flushes


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## DarthD3vl (Jan 12, 2011)

hell yeah shroomies


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## dankillerbs (Jan 13, 2011)

If you read my post right you would see that I said to pick aborts, but leave pins that haven't matured yet.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 13, 2011)

its all good.

we get it now.

no hard feelings
=]


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## justparanoid (Jan 13, 2011)

damn nice thread! Im sub'D

JP


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## DarthD3vl (Jan 13, 2011)

dankillerbs said:


> If you read my post right you would see that I said to pick aborts, but leave pins that haven't matured yet.


and if you read mine you would notice that my post said you shouldn't dunk with _imature pins_, you should only dunk with NO pins, so if you have undeveloped pins, let them finnish then dunk



DarthD3vl said:


> im gonna have to disagree...
> *at the end of each flush all the mushrooms should be fully mature*, if there not.. your *dunking to early*
> 
> *When Should I Dunk and Roll?
> ...





thats how the tek is written, and how every tek of dunk and roll i could find was written, even in my mycology books it states to let all mushrooms reach level of maturity wanted BEFORE dunking, I didn't invent it im just restating it as it is...


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## dankillerbs (Jan 13, 2011)

Lets see what the creator of lets grow mushrooms has to say about it. Here are multiple post from RR explaining this to people.

*You do NOT pick all the small pins when you harvest first flush*. If you do you destroy the second and third flushes.
Dunking substrates is an excellent way to hydrate between flushes. Recase the divits where the substrate was damaged by picking.
The number of pins that develop in the second flush has nothing at all to do with the first flush, unless you do something silly like pick them off. Many times, as said above, the pins for the first three flushes all form at once, then sit dormant waiting their turn.

The first flush is over when you've picked the mature fruits. The second flush will begin when the pins you LEAVE in place begin to grow a few days after you pick. *Dunking won't hurt the pins. Just make sure you give plenty of air exchange when you place the tray back in the fruiting chamber, so the water can evaporate off the pins*.
RR 

Mycelium generally sets all the primordia/pins for the first three flushes at the time of the first flush. You'll notice that only about a third or so of the pins grow to maturity. There will be a few aborts that the heads turn black on, but the rest of the pins will be fine and just sitting there dormant. IF YOU PICK THOSE PINS, YOU RUIN YOUR SECOND AND THIRD FLUSH! Pick the mature fruits and any obvious aborts, but leave the rest.

My advice was for cased substrate as well. Cakes are no differnt from bulk grows, only smaller. *Never pick pins/primordia between flushes*. If so, you ruin the next flush. Aborts will have black heads and be obviously dead. *If the pins have normal color heads, they're just sitting dormant waiting their turn at the nutrients the substrate has to offer.*
RR

As said earlier, *pins that are not aborts are the pins that were set for the second flush*. That's the nature of fungi. Often, pins for the first three flushes are all set at the same time, but through a process we don't understand yet, the mycelium figures out which ones to mature and which ones to hold back for flush two and later. *Picking them off sets you back*.

As for 2nd flush strategy, dunking will tend to initiate it, but it also helps to let the substrate dry out somewhat and 'rest' before initiating second flush with the soaking. Shiitake growers typically remove the blocks from the fruiting area, to allow them to dry in the colonization room at low humidity. This strategy works with cubes too, but you only need to let them rest for 6 to 7 days, not the two weeks we let shiitake sit. By allowing the substrate to partially dry, and then soaking, the next flush usually comes right along. In this regard, we're mimicking nature with warm temperatures, followed by a soaking rain.

In general, you're going to get 80% or so of your potential product on the first two flushes, provided you've initiated them properly. Many growers feel their fruiting area real estate is better served by replacing post 2nd flush substrates with fresh ones to keep the cycle going at maximum. Everyone just needs to experiment and see what works best under their conditions.
RR


This has all been covered many times before. You should *NEVER pick non-aborts*. It's extremely common for the fruits for the first two or three flushes to be set at the time of first flush, where they remain dormant until their time comes.

You should dunk and roll prior to first flush, and then *dunk only* after first flush*(no roll)*, and as said above, never pick pins that are not black.

In addition, *it's a total myth that aborts contaminate*. They don't. Even if they rotted, bacteria isn't a contaminant to fully colonized substrates.
RR


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## DarthD3vl (Jan 14, 2011)

well we all know he's all knowing and even wrote the tek himself right... oh wait he didn't invent the tek... and if dunking mushrooms in water is good for them surely spraying them with water wouldn't hurt, oh wait it does... looks like some facts got mixed up with one mans opinion. 

although I admit some cakes flush constantly for the first few flushes(rarely) and you may *have no choice* to either dunk with them *on there*, (then they would suffer from the same damage constant water causes them just like spraying them directly which we all know is stupid) *or pick* them and dunk and wait for next flush, if your waiting for them to fully mature to get spores then you will run into this problem more often as your second flush may start before you pick them, but the time period you should pick your shrooms over can be up to 24 hours...

in those cases your really damned if you do and if you dont so then its up to opinions, which is were im sure RR had made his decision that the way he does it is right... but follow what ever you feel makes more since, we all know rr is infoulable.


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## DarthD3vl (Jan 14, 2011)

I did just send RR a private message to try and discuss this with him, maybe he has proof somewere, and he just hasn't posted it. 
we'll see if he reply's its not likely since it may be considered a cultivation question which he refuses to answer in private messages.....


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## dankillerbs (Jan 14, 2011)

I never said he created the dunk n roll tek... He created the shotgun chamber and let's grow mushrooms DVD. I'm pretty sure he won't even read your message though unfortunately... It's says in bold in his sig that he will not answer any pm's. But I can assure you that spaying and dunking pins is not gonna cause damage... It's when they don't have the chance to dry off is when it gives you problems, which would go to show you need more FAE. Think about it, these things come from nature... The only reason a setup like kitty had needed a finer misting bottle was because she didn't have proper FAE and the big droplets of water were not given a chance to dry off... You know mushrooms get rained on in nature? It's not like god pulls out his fine mister to care for his fungi. Also,Please don't take any of my remarks as telling you your wrong or trying to debate you or anything... Just sharing what I've learned for the progression of knowledge.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 16, 2011)

*UPDATE*

the golden teachers are STILL flushing.
i kind of lost count of which flush they are on due to different cake's pinsets were set at different times.

i believe its around 5 or 6. i think this will be my last time flushing them. not much going down anymore but still getting mushrooms. not much though.

the cambodians are awesome and are on their 2nd or 3rd flush! i got 4 more jars knocked up from the rest of the syringe that are into week 1 of incubation.

i enjoy the effects of the cambodians more then the golden teachers.
even though i enjoy both.
cambodians seem to be more clear headed and visual. while golden teachers are still visual but a lot more thought provoked and mind expanding.

made a few spore prints yesterday and going to try making my own syringe tonight. 
once i successfully make a new syringe and buy more online, im going to try choempi's bulk mono tek with horse POOP.

what strain would you all recommend with his tek?
or what strains work well with bulk teks??

i was thinking about cambodians again because i liked them so much.
but i've been looking into other cubensis strains and im really liking the sound of the Thai strains such as the Lipa Yai or Koh Samui.
OR i like the sound of Ecuadorians.
what would you all say?

also...
i didn't care for microsupply spores all too much...
it seemed these spores took way too long to colonize.
so would you recommend to use a different spore distributer or buy spore prints instead from now on?

thank you all for your input!!!
-BBQ


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## justparanoid (Jan 16, 2011)

- Psilocybe Cubensis Cambodia
- Psilocybe Cubensis B+
- Psilocybe Cubensis Mazatapec

are on my list of tryables! got three syringes for 10 bucks each.

JP


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## dankillerbs (Jan 16, 2011)

nice heatless! Anyways, to answer your question, any strain will work fine if they are from a good vendor... I recommend ralphstersspores.com.... Strain names for mushrooms are really just advertising arent like cannabis strains. When you have multi spore there are litterally thousands of "strains" and each mushroom will not be the same, size and potency wise. You have to get into strain isolation to get the same fruits everytime. Anyways, I'd really like to see you try and only roll some cakes once and never pick off pins unless they are black capped if you down for side by side results... It would be really interesting to see a comparison.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 16, 2011)

dankillerbs said:


> nice heatless! Anyways, to answer your question, any strain will work fine if they are from a good vendor... I recommend ralphstersspores.com.... Strain names for mushrooms are really just advertising arent like cannabis strains. When you have multi spore there are litterally thousands of "strains" and each mushroom will not be the same, size and potency wise. You have to get into strain isolation to get the same fruits everytime. Anyways, I'd really like to see you try and only roll some cakes once and never pick off pins unless they are black capped if you down for side by side results... It would be really interesting to see a comparison.


i will do this for sure in my future pf teks. 
i think imma still do pf tek while trying mono tubs.

imma try my next pf tek with penis envy spores and see how good of results i can get with that strain with the pf tek!!!


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## dankillerbs (Jan 16, 2011)

Nice! I think you will like the results! Basically you only harvest the mature fruits and leave any pins that arent aborts. If harvesting a mature fruit is going to damage healthy pins you can take some alcohol wiped scissors and cut the fruit as close to the base as you can then harvest the stump once the other pins mature. The reason you don't roll cakes with pins is because you can damage the pins which could lead to contamination... That's probably what darth was referring to earlier when he mentioned pins contaminating, because it's not dunking them that lead to contams... Mushrooms ARE mycellium so if dunking them was a problem, so would dunking a substrate... It's stagnant water left in contact with myc that leads to contams which is from too little FAE.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 18, 2011)

sounds good to me.

=]

yeah....im still figuring out whats too much misting or too less FAE.

its all coming together though.

i wanna become a master at pinsets


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## greenkrakzak (Jan 21, 2011)

HeatlessBBQ said:


> View attachment 1378345View attachment 1378347View attachment 1378348
> 
> check out some of these beauties from recent flushes


damn that is what i want to do man. how f dup will that get you?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 21, 2011)

greenkrakzak said:


> damn that is what i want to do man. how f dup will that get you?


the first image of that cluster.
if you ate all of that, it'd make you trip pretty damn hard.
probably weighs 50 grams fresh.
5 grams dried.

so if you havn't eaten mushies for at least a month or have NO tolerance to mushrooms.
and you ate that whole 5 grams at once.
you'd probably trip to level 4 FOR SURE and maybe even level 5.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Jan 24, 2011)

just ordered some more spores today to try some new experiments.
=]

i will post a new thread once i figure out what I'm going to do.

ill post a link once its going.

but spores i ordered:

Penis Envy
PES Hawaiian
Treasure Coast
Pietro Rican


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## justparanoid (Jan 24, 2011)

My GT's are taking a while to grow too. Your jars are looking good! keep up the great grow! sub'D

JP


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## JealousGreen (Jan 27, 2011)

Awesome thread. great job


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## HeatlessBBQ (Feb 19, 2011)

so I have a bunch of jars colonizing right now.
and i got a bunch of new strains.
-Penis Envy
-Huautla (i think i may have spelled wrong)
-PES Hawaiians
-Puerto Rican
-Treasure Coast
all from sporeworks.
thanks for the link darth. =]

but anywho...
i wanna try casings.
I'm going to first try with pf tek brf cakes.
then move into wild bird seed. but when i do that, i may just do monotubs.
but for now. its casings 

do you recommend using hpoo or coir?
i have also heard of using earth worm casings instead of hpoo.

thanks all. =]

also. what works best with penis envy? and what tek?


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## ANC (Feb 19, 2011)

Bucket with peroxide water and a lid....


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## dankillerbs (Feb 19, 2011)

I assume you mean your wanting to try bulk substrates, not casings Heatless. Spawning to a bulk substrate should not be refered to as "casing". Your wanting to use colonized BRF cakes as spawn to colonize a larger substrate, correct? A casing is a non-nutritious layer(verm, peat moss) that is added to an already colonized bulk substrate(BRF, Coir, Hpoo) to provide a moist environment for pinning. Basically the moisture in the casing material is providing a nice micro climate with high rh% to stimulate pinning. Rolling in verm is basically like casing for BRF cakes, or a mix of peat moss and verm is used on bulk substrates. You dont want the casing to fully colonize which would defeat the purpose of having the moist environment on top and seperate from the colonized myc. Substrates such as BRF,coir, and hpoo are all rich in nutrients and thus are not used in casings, rather they are used for bulk substrates which you do want to colonize quickly.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Feb 21, 2011)

sorry i keep refering to bulk subs as casings.

i have always called them "casings"

sorry i got "casing layer" and a "casing" confused.
they are the same thing.

but yes.
i wanna spawn my colonized cakes into a bigger substrate
for bigger yields.


what do all of you recommend and suggest?

pf tek to spawn to bulk sub?
or a mono tub tek with hpoop using WBS?

keep in mind, I want to get the most out of my Penis Envys. and PF cakes dont seem to get what i want.


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## justparanoid (Feb 21, 2011)

pf cakes arent the best way to maximize your yield. i would cook up some rye berries and inoculate that with a Live culture. I have four pf cakes and just going to birth and pf tek them because they arent enough spawn to do any real bulk projects.

How many jars do you have?

JP


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## HeatlessBBQ (Feb 21, 2011)

justparanoid said:


> pf cakes arent the best way to maximize your yield. i would cook up some rye berries and inoculate that with a Live culture. I have four pf cakes and just going to birth and pf tek them because they arent enough spawn to do any real bulk projects.
> 
> How many jars do you have?
> 
> JP


i am just getting kind of bored of the PF tek actually after doing a Marsofold n,n-dmt extraction and after reading Practical LSD Manufacture by Uncle Fester...

it seems that mushroom cultivation is elementary compared creating LSD from growing rye then contaminating it with ergot or obtaining HBRS or Morning glory seeds.
then going into extracting methods...etc and then some more...

HA! that is the easiest part of synthesizing LSD btw... 

anywho...
I have plenty of pf cake jars ready to be birthed and more being colonized.
I want to use WBS, rye berries, or corn. but since I am already half way down the road.
I wanna try spawning to bulk substrates with BRF cakes FIRST before I buy a pressure cooker and start another tek.

my other reason for asking this is because I want to yield more Penis Envys from a bigger substrate.
and like I said above...I want more of a challenge.

so I think I am going to keep my shotgun terrarium.
spawn cakes into treys. let them colonize for 5-7 days.
then put them into the shotgun chamber.

i was thinking about making 3 different treys...
1st trey - only 1 cake used for spawn
2nd trey - three cakes used for spawn
and 3rd trey - 5-6 cakes cakes used for spawn

the 1st trey is mainly for experimentation.
to see how much this method of spawn to bulk sub yields in one flush compared to a pf cake.
i usually get an average of 5.0 grams dried per cake. per 1ST flush

what do you all think?


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## HeatlessBBQ (Feb 22, 2011)

bump.

tenwordsormore


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## dankillerbs (Feb 22, 2011)

Haha, no prob heatless... That term is frequently used incorrectly... Many misinformed people use it incorrectly and it leads to confusion so I'm just trying to get you to steer clear of that. Honestly, unless you grow other species than cubes a casing isn't even necessary or beneficial, while other species require a casing to fruit well. Anyways, for your bulk trays... What you wanna do is wait till cakes are 100% colonized(don't give them time to consolidate if using for spawn, that way the myc is still rapidly expanding) , then with clean hands, crumble them into small chuncks and mix with whatever field capacity, pasteurized sub you want... I recommend straight coir, verm, and gypsum as they are more forgiving than other subs(leave room for a layer of plain coir mix to cover the mixed spawn and coir mix). Then cover with foil, poke a few small holes(covered with mycropore tape), wait till 100%, wait 1 week to consolidate, then fruit.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Feb 22, 2011)

dankillerbs said:


> Haha, no prob heatless... That term is frequently used incorrectly... Many misinformed people use it incorrectly and it leads to confusion so I'm just trying to get you to steer clear of that. Honestly, unless you grow other species than cubes a casing isn't even necessary or beneficial, while other species require a casing to fruit well. Anyways, for your bulk trays... What you wanna do is wait till cakes are 100% colonized(don't give them time to consolidate if using for spawn, that way the myc is still rapidly expanding) , then with clean hands, crumble them into small chuncks and mix with whatever field capacity, pasteurized sub you want... I recommend straight coir, verm, and gypsum as they are more forgiving than other subs(leave room for a layer of plain coir mix to cover the mixed spawn and coir mix). Then cover with foil, poke a few small holes(covered with mycropore tape), wait till 100%, wait 1 week to consolidate, then fruit.


 ahhhhh dankillerbs!
my mushroom mentor!
+rep my friend 

I shall remember this time to not mis use those terms. you have corrected me a few times and I appreciate your knowledge and information.
you the man!
anywho...
I shall be using the coir/verm/gypsum mix.
how should I pasteurize this mixture, microwave?

also...what'r the small holes covered in microtape for?
FAE for the myc.? 
like the inoc. holes in pf jar lids? except those holes are only meant for FAE so the myc doesnt stall from colonizing the substrate?
correct?


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## JealousGreen (Feb 22, 2011)

Sounds like fun experiment. My lack of knowledge precludes me from giving any advice, but I'm glad for the opportunity to watch your results.


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## HeatlessBBQ (Feb 22, 2011)

JealousGreen said:


> Sounds like fun experiment. My lack of knowledge precludes me from giving any advice, but I'm glad for the opportunity to watch your results.


 thank you sir! 
I have a feeling you will learn SOMETHING


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## dankillerbs (Feb 22, 2011)

Don't pasteurize in the microwave, it's a horrible method. Search shroomery for damions coir tek, it isn't true pasteurization but many people have had good results with it as coir is quite forgiving. It involves placing a brick of coir in a bucket and pouring boiling water over it then covering to hydrate/pasteurize it at the same time. That ones pretty simple, otherwise try your hand at true pasteurizing... Hydrate your sub to field capacity, load in quart size jars to the top, cover with foil, and stick a meat thermometer through the foil into the center of the jar... Place jars in pot and fill pot so 2/3 of the jar is submerged... Bring water to boil and when thermometer reaches 120 kill the heat... It should still raise to the 140-160 deg range, hold that temp for 1 hour... Wait to cool, then spawn to it!


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## NuggityDank (Mar 29, 2011)

Sorry for bumping a reletively old thread, but damn this shit helped me out a ton. I'm just starting my first grow of cambodians. Thanks to all who have contributed. Read through the whole thing, great info. :]


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## HeatlessBBQ (May 22, 2011)

thank you kind sir!

that is why i made this thread.

so people can start their own PF tek mushroom grows!!!

most questions YOU WILL have to ask will be answered in this thread.

CHECK IT OUT!!! 

=D


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## HeatlessBBQ (Aug 11, 2011)

bumpidddeee BUMP!


who wants to grow some mushrooms??


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## bryon209 (Aug 11, 2011)

my jars would crack due to the extreme heat exchange ...via stove instead of a pc....i put a washcloth on the bottom of the pot and i also let them cool in the water my cracking went down to zero percent


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## HeatlessBBQ (Aug 11, 2011)

bryon209 said:


> my jars would crack due to the extreme heat exchange ...via stove instead of a pc....i put a washcloth on the bottom of the pot and i also let them cool in the water my cracking went down to zero percent


you should use your jar lids at the bottom of your pan thats on the stove.

that way your jars will stay elevated out of the water. only heat touches the jars and thats what you want!

a steam sterilization.

if your jar's bottom touches any water...this may cause cracking of the jars.


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## Hydrotech364 (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm doing up some Brazillian's and Space Coast.Just found this thread and learned more from it than I have since I started from video's and other threads.Awesome Intel Fella's.Check your reps.Mine are doing great and that remoisture hint came in fucking handy.I found the jar's that received the less inoculation finished quicker.This is nowhere near as much of a time consuming task as a full Bud grow but the suspense still fuckin kills ya.I'm bumping this thing so in your opinion what is the strongest cubensis strain for BRF and which is it that has the most psilosybin other than cubensis?Has anyone ever sliced mycellium to get more edges for pin growth.Rep for your secrets Brothers.


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